# Marbury shows giving side



## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

http://www.newsday.com/sports/basketball/ny-spmarbury0906,0,1207463.story?coll=ny-sports-headlines







> Whether he has been Starbury on the court in recent years is open to debate, but it would be difficult to convince Coney Island residents Stephon Marbury hasn't been that off it. The sometimes troubled Knicks point guard came to three Coney Island elementary schools Tuesday morning bearing gifts.
> 
> Each of the approximately 2,200 boys and girls combined in the schools -- P.S. 188, P.S. 288 and P.S. 329 -- received a blue Knicks satchel filled with school supplies, including a notebook, a dictionary, a calculator and writing utensils.


 




> The summer has provided a different dimension to Marbury, who was mostly in the news last season for his tiffs with former coach Larry Brown. This summer has been different. Tuesday followed the August introduction of Marbury's new Starbury line of low-cost sports apparel, which includes sneakers priced at $14.98, and the opening of StarCuts that provides free haircuts to Coney Island residents.
> 
> "I kind of look at it like that's basketball, that's one thing," Marbury said of his surly reputation compared with his chartable endeavors of late. "Off the court is another thing."
> 
> Which is where Marbury has shined in recent months. Marbury, who left Georgia Tech after his freshman season, told students he would be going back for his degree because, "basketball is just a vehicle, not a life."





> Asked later about the upcoming season, one in which he will presumably be happier playing for Isiah Thomas, Marbury stayed on message, albeit with a half smile.
> 
> "That's not even important right now," Marbury said. "What's important is what we're doing right now. In a month, we'll have all the time in the world to talk about basketball."



For all the bad mouthing marbury gets its extremely obvious he is really a decent guy.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

Da Grinch said:


> http://www.newsday.com/sports/basketball/ny-spmarbury0906,0,1207463.story?coll=ny-sports-headlines
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Yeah...this thread might as well have been "Marbury does it again..."...he really is a good guy, which is one of the reasons I support him so much in these debates.


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## USSKittyHawk (Jul 22, 2005)

He has always been a nice guy off the court, now when he is at work that's a different story.


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## ToddMacCulloch11 (May 31, 2003)

There are certain people I don't like as a player and they are just a ******* to boot, but Steph is different. I'm not a fan of his game, but you can't deny he's given back a lot to the community.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

Kitty said:


> He has always been a nice guy off the court, now when he is at work that's a different story.


the funny thing is people are pretty vague on what marbury actually does that is so bad.

what did marbury do that made kurt thomas so mad at him?

or Qrich?

He supposedly didn't speak to tim thomas but gave him a gift when he left ...i remember reading the article about it and never saw anything about Tim thomas ever speaking to marbury. conversations are a 2 way street...i'm not saying marbury is shy but i dont think extrovert when i think of him , i think of someone who doesn't speak very well, so I'm thinking that he doesn't speak very much unless being asked a question by a reporter.

not really a quality i want in a point guard but what are you really going to do if that is the case?

all we know is he often doesn't get along with certain teammates, but there are plenty he does get along with ...the one guy I laways expected to say something bad about him never did , Jayson williams whose career was ruined when marbury fell into him and shattered his leg. i assume that he got along with marbury just fine.


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## Kiyaman (Aug 14, 2006)

Stephon will always be Steph in Coney Island Brooklyn. It's hard to Front in the Neighborhood. 
Especially, when World Be Free (Loyld Free) gave so much back in the 1970's to Brownsville Brooklyn. Steph is only doing what he dreamed of doing when he was a child playing B-Ball. 

Marbury playing in the NBA was a dream come true to him inwhich caught him by suprise like all the NBA players from the Neighborhood. Starbury got caught up in the game by wanting to be like the above high paid NBA Stars that forgot where they came from and would not lift a finger to help or advice a young struggling athlete that just arrived in the NBA because of that well known foot note we always here "It's Just a BUSSINESS!". 

*Marbury played 11 NBA Seasons with an attitude & Personality of "This is just a Bussiness" towards all his Teammates as if he was a SG, SF, PF, or Center. Sorry to say but Marbury Star-Light and Big Contract is for Starbury the Quarterback-PG in the NBA (The LEADER of the Pack). * 

I recall when Marbury first became a Knick and he gave out Seventeen (17) Assist in one game (I believe it was his 3rd, or 4th, or 5th game as a Knick), all us Brooklyn Fans knew Stephon Marbury had the talent & skillz to be the TOP-3 PG in the NBA. However, not seeing Marbury do anything like that again made Knick-Fans look at Marbury career 20/8 stat as just another average player in the NBA because that 20/8 Stat dont make any WINS... 

P.S. Will President/Coach Isiah Thomas get Marbury to bring BIG Smiles to Knick-Fans faces on the court like Marbury is doing off the court is the episode to watch starting October 2006? 
Having TWO-Star-Combo-Guards (Marbury/Francis) as the Knicks Starting Backcourt will be something to watch.


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## USSKittyHawk (Jul 22, 2005)

Da Grinch said:


> the funny thing is people are pretty vague on what marbury actually does that is so bad.
> 
> what did marbury do that made kurt thomas so mad at him?
> 
> ...


I don't know what games you been watching this season, but from what I saw was Steph rolling his eyes at teammates and just showing them up, on the court. He is rarely happy, he is a walking grouch. It's not just Kurt and Q-Rich that has stated that he has issues. Just ask his former teammates during his tenure with the Suns, and the Nets.


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

Kitty said:


> I don't know what games you been watching this season, but from what I saw was Steph rolling his eyes at teammates and just showing them up, on the court. He is rarely happy, he is a walking grouch. It's not just Kurt and Q-Rich that has stated that he has issues. Just ask his former teammates during his tenure with the Suns, and the Nets.


By those former teammates, I presume you mean guys like Tim Thomas and Keith Van Horn. Isn't it ironic those two would be the first to point out issues with Marbury but have found no issues with their own game. Neither has done anything significant since leaving Marbury and neither has lived up to expectations (and I love both Van Horn and Thomas' game). You see the kind of guy Tim Thomas was the moment Ray Allen pointed out the fact that he has not lived up to his billing when he had gotten the chance with the Bucks. I'm sure you all remember that after the big 3 (Cassell, Allen, Robinson) were broken up in favor of retooling the team. Timmy was given full control of the team as it's center piece but falled to rise to the occassion which inevitably lead to Michael Redd stealing his spotlight. In response to that fact pointed out by Ray, Tim Thomas threatened to beat his *** the next time he saw him (one of many empty threats such as the one he had against Martin). I guess Timmy's failures has been everyone's fault but his own. 

As far as other squabbles, they happen all the time with teams. Professionals even mention to others the fact that sometimes guys who are normally cool end up in a squabble. I've gotten into near fist fights with friends over ball but we all understand it's just apart of our passion for the game. As far as Kurt and especially Richardson, neither problem was so serious that neither side could coexist with Marbury. That's a telling sign that all this hype is apart of a media ploy to kick a guy when he's down as they often do (see Kobe's fall from grace).

P.S., I don't see how Marbury showing frustration on the court somehow contributes to his team's not making the playoffs. I been on team's with guys that do much worse than just "roll their eyes" at people and unlike these professionals, I was still a vunerable kid. If they don't show unsatisfaction for losing and if they are that sensitive to be affected by the frustration from other players, they shouldn't be playing the sport; basketball is not a sport for *****es.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

Micheal Jordan verbally berated players on his team. Basketball skills or not, that's not the thing to do as a leader, but they won, so it goes unnnoticed. If they had a year when they were losers, would that be the cause, and would MJ be painted as a whiner? :whoknows:


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

_Dre_ said:


> Micheal Jordan verbally berated players on his team. Basketball skills or not, that's not the thing to do as a leader, but they won, so it goes unnnoticed. If they had a year when they were losers, would that be the cause, and would MJ be painted as a whiner? :whoknows:


Well when Jordan played for the Wizards, it was known that he had continued those antics especially with Kwame Brown. It got so bad to the point that I actually read that Kwame had burst out into tears in practice as a result of MJ's beriddling. It's funny because different rules apply to different guys based on their name and the aura it carries. Marbury just shows he's frustrated on the court but never lashes out at teammates. Jordan makes grown *** men cry from the taunting but it's okay for Jordan to do it because he's Jordan. Marbury can't even go a possession without someone criticizing everything he does. Just one of many double standards about the game.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

TwinkieFoot said:


> Well when Jordan played for the Wizards, it was known that he had continued those antics especially with Kwame Brown. It got so bad to the point that I actually read that Kwame had burst out into tears in practice as a result of MJ's beriddling. It's funny because different rules apply to different guys based on their name and the aura it carries. Marbury just shows he's frustrated on the court but never lashes out at teammates. Jordan makes grown *** men cry from the taunting but it's okay for Jordan to do it because he's Jordan. Marbury can't even go a possession without someone criticizing everything he does. Just one of many double standards about the game.


 Exactly. And Marbury's the point guard who works hard to just set guys up, plus he has worse teammates than Jordan did. 

But whatever, because I know I'm inviting some 3 million line debate.


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## lgtwins (May 18, 2004)

TwinkieFoot said:


> Well when Jordan played for the Wizards, it was known that he had continued those antics especially with Kwame Brown. It got so bad to the point that I actually read that Kwame had burst out into tears in practice as a result of MJ's beriddling. It's funny because different rules apply to different guys based on their name and the aura it carries. Marbury just shows he's frustrated on the court but never lashes out at teammates. Jordan makes grown *** men cry from the taunting but it's okay for Jordan to do it because he's Jordan. Marbury can't even go a possession without someone criticizing everything he does. Just one of many double standards about the game.


Because you were talking about Marbury, not MJ. 

Double standard for NJ, no problem for me!

Double standard for Marbury, WHF?


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

lgtwins said:


> Because you were talking about Marbury, not MJ.
> 
> Double standard for NJ, no problem for me!
> 
> Double standard for Marbury, WHF?


My real issue is that Marbury is often casted as a "loser" not because of his play but because his attitude. People often refer to him as a poor teammate and loser because of his body language on the court. My question to you is how could Marbury's attitude (that is much milder than the stories we've heard of Jordan) be the single reason why he is all of these things but Jordan be successful? Call me crazy but maybe the fact that Jordan played on a squad that won more than 50 wins and almost made the Conference Finals without him could be the reason why he managed to be successful with a worse attitude. Not to say that Marbury is Jordan but I just don't understand the double standard in this league. Marbury is a very talented player and if you put talent around him just as other stars like Jordan had (top 50 player of all time in Pippen with one of the best post defenders/rebounders in Rodman or Grant) then maybe his teams may win. It's just unreasonable in my opinion to judge his entire career based upon the shortcomings of a TEAM and not him solely as an individual.


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## USSKittyHawk (Jul 22, 2005)

Here is a tissue for all the babies that cry when you say something that isn't positive about Marbury. Reality is reality and I'm not going to sit here and read through long *** posts coping pleas for Steph like he is so perfect.


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

Kitty said:


> Here is a tissue for all the babies that cry when you say something that isn't positive about Marbury. Reality is reality and I'm not going to sit here and read through long *** posst coping pleas for Steph like he is so perfect.


So then don't respond...


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## USSKittyHawk (Jul 22, 2005)

TwinkieFoot said:


> So then don't respond...


Don't tell me what I can't and can not do, you have some damn nerve. Stay on topic or don't post at all.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

Kitty said:


> Here is a tissue for all the babies that cry when you say something that isn't positive about Marbury. Reality is reality and I'm not going to sit here and read through long *** posts coping pleas for Steph like he is so perfect.


Link one thread where there's not a negative thing said about Stephon Marbury. This type of discussion is going to keep going because it's the truth, don't run from it. And thanks for the tissue, I got allergies.


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

Kitty said:


> Don't tell me what I can't and can not do, you have some damn nerve. Stay on topic or don't post at all.


Trust me, you don't mean that much to my day that I'd care to advise you what to do. I only bothered commenting because you decided on taking a cheap shot at people defending their own points. 


Use your PM box if you want to call out a mod
-Kitty


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## USSKittyHawk (Jul 22, 2005)

_Dre_ said:


> Link one thread where there's not a negative thing said about Stephon Marbury. This type of discussion is going to keep going because it's the truth, don't run from it. And thanks for the tissue, I got allergies.


Why dont' you try using the search button to see what you're looking for good luck with that, I don't run from a damn thing on this board, I just don't have time to be beating on a dead horse on the Marbury topic yet _again._


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

Kitty said:


> Why dont' you try using the search button to see what you're looking for good luck with that, I don't run from a damn thing on this board, I just don't have time to be beating on a dead horse on the Marbury topic yet _again._


 It's not a dead horse in the least bit, he's still very much playing...and why are you getting all hostile? If you don't care to hear people whine about Marbury, why do you need to tell us that? I just ignore threads I want to ignore. 

You knew you'd encounter this when you saw "Marbury" in the thread title.


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## 0oh_S0o_FreSh!! (Jun 3, 2006)

I think hes a bit cocky. but please do not criticize, its just my opinion. I mean, sure he does alot for the community... what NBA player doesnt? people just know him because hes from NY and he does things IN NY. but people dont no the otehr side of it. There is some reason that everyone is mad at him, and there will always be a reason why someone does something. Kurt thomas, tim thomas, qrich, Brown, this isnt jsut coincidental. What happpens is, people just like to go on and on on how he does stuff good but like hide the fact that he is cocky and snobby, and what u do on the court is EXACTLY the same of waht can and cannot reflect upon you when ur not or u r on the court. These disputes on stephon Marbury are accurate and they prove evidence, but i hate the fat that people jsut overshadow what he does to help, and what he doesnt do to not help situations.


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## USSKittyHawk (Jul 22, 2005)

_Dre_ said:


> It's not a dead horse in the least bit, he's still very much playing...and why are you getting all hostile? If you don't care to hear people whine about Marbury, why do you need to tell us that? I just ignore threads I want to ignore.
> 
> You knew you'd encounter this when you saw "Marbury" in the thread title.


Hmm when it comes to certain folks it's beating a dead horse, if you were posting on this forum last season you wouldn't have made that statement. As for reading the threads, when you the mod of the forum you have to scan everything. Lastly, thanks for telling me how to post.  Now you want to get back on topic or ask me some more questions?


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## 0oh_S0o_FreSh!! (Jun 3, 2006)

Oh and i do not want to get involved in anything, but this si a knicsk board and if u would like to dispute this somewhere else please do so. i just do not want anymore problems going on about someone posting their opinions and someone criticizing other people, because thats one thing that annoys the hell out of everybody. you all have turned a friendly argument into thrashing each other with your posts, which is wasting mine and your time.


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

BiG_DeuCE said:


> I think hes a bit cocky. but please do not criticize, its just my opinion. I mean, sure he does alot for the community... what NBA player doesnt? people just know him because hes from NY and he does things IN NY. but people dont no the otehr side of it. There is some reason that everyone is mad at him, and there will always be a reason why someone does something. Kurt thomas, tim thomas, qrich, Brown, this isnt jsut coincidental. What happpens is, people just like to go on and on on how he does stuff good but like hide the fact that he is cocky and snobby, and what u do on the court is EXACTLY the same of waht can and cannot reflect upon you when ur not or u r on the court. These disputes on stephon Marbury are accurate and they prove evidence, but i hate the fat that people jsut overshadow what he does to help, and what he doesnt do to not help situations.


I think that what is at the heart of this is people's perceptions. I feel alot of the time you guys believe I'm one dimensional and I don't see any other opinion but mine. That couldn't be farther from the truth. Its just that I feel alot of the time people see things just through one angle and I like to present to them the second. I guess that often makes me seem like a Knick optimist but again, it isn't the case. I just feel that their are philosphical things about basketball that are flawed or not expressed correctly. I realize very much so that Marbury is a cocky guy. I've met him a couple times in the past because I grew up in Coney Island. What most fail to realize is the fact that ATHLETES are cocky and is something necessary for them to be successful. Behind that arrogance though is a guy that most don't see but seem to be seeing now. I hope that I've cleared things up a bit on my part.


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## 0oh_S0o_FreSh!! (Jun 3, 2006)

TwinkieFoot said:


> I think that what is at the heart of this is people's perceptions. I feel alot of the time you guys believe I'm one dimensional and I don't see any other opinion but mine. That couldn't be farther from the truth. Its just that I feel alot of the time people see things just through one angle and I like to present to them the second. I guess that often makes me seem like a Knick optimist but again, it isn't the case. I just feel that their are philosphical things about basketball that are flawed or not expressed correctly. I realize very much so that Marbury is a cocky guy. I've met him a couple times in the past because I grew up in Coney Island. What most fail to realize is the fact that ATHLETES are cocky and is something necessary for them to be successful. Behind that arrogance though is a guy that most don't see but seem to be seeing now. I hope that I've cleared things up a bit on my part.


i never said that.. i just wanted to post my part, and i do not see u as one dimensional, actually you have my respect as a poster, jsut sometimes i hate when people like to up arguments and take it to a higher level. i do agree with everything you say, but I was just posting soem of the details some other people left out


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

_Dre_ said:


> It's not a dead horse in the least bit, he's still very much playing...and why are you getting all hostile? If you don't care to hear people whine about Marbury, why do you need to tell us that? I just ignore threads I want to ignore.
> 
> You knew you'd encounter this when you saw "Marbury" in the thread title.


Exactly. I just don't understand why you'd bother commenting on a topic you believe to be a "dead horse." If it's that tired and that played out then why bother responding? Then again I don't want to suggest anything to you because I wouldn't want to get a nasty message, now would I? Just wonder what's the point of the hassle, is all.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

Kitty said:


> I don't know what games you been watching this season, but from what I saw was Steph rolling his eyes at teammates and just showing them up, on the court. He is rarely happy, he is a walking grouch. It's not just Kurt and Q-Rich that has stated that he has issues. Just ask his former teammates during his tenure with the Suns, and the Nets.


its in vogue to compare marbury unfavorably to the best pg's in the world the last 5 -10 years(nash and kidd) both are pass 1st pg's and leaders things i will easily agree marbury is not.
i always took marbury's antics as weakness (the rolling his eyes and towel wearing and the such) not maliciousness , its just not smart to show frustration when things are not going your way and in the last 20 years i've seen quite a few stars and franchise players guilty of the same things well as lesser players the pre championship bulls were absolutely horrible in this regard as well as the pre-title lakers. who had nick van exel chanting bahamas after getting down 3-0 to the jazz 1 year as well as the very tangible beef( and fist fight) between shaq and kobe. 

scottie pippen and ho grant wilted under pressure at first like school girls with skinned knees and Mj wasn't much better as he was consistently venting his frustrations and went much further than marbury has ever gone to the point of telling teammates not to pass to bill cartwright late in games or they wont see the ball from him again and at times throwing passes he knew cartwright couldn't handle just to embarrass him, also openly mocking cartwright from everything from his shooting form to his voice which needed surgery after his playing days to fix( a situation that ended with cartwright threatening MJ and then jordan rethought his position on the subjects) Mj has actually had fistfights with teammates ( steve kerr ) or just whacked them and they did nothing because he was MJ (will purdue ) not just yelling spats and as TwinkieFoot already posted as a wizard he made Kwame brown cry with a verbal beating and used his executive power to make team decisions that were not in his job description as a player affecting that team's chemistry in ways marbury could not even begin to do. the ironic thing is as time wore on Scottie became as important a leader as MJ and most of the players consider Scottie the better teammate by far. 

and the funny thing is in 3 years marbury will finsh his deal and most likely chase a contender for less money if the knicks aren't a top team by then and be on a winning team with true title aspirations and possibly win like gary paytonand all the stuff he did or supposedly did will be forgotten just like payton's last deays as a sonic in which him his teammates were not getting along getting into possibly dangerous situations like vernon maxwell throwing weights at payton I beleive, injuring a player, a player who was not payton.

great players , good players, scrubs all have issues with other teammates , it always matters what they did to have that issue....for instance nate robinson as a rook had 2 actual fistfights last year, but i bet if i took a poll he would be considered a better teammate than stephon even though 1 of his reasons i believe was just not worth it (a 20 $ bet i think with malik rose)....rolling your eyes from marbury to me is not all that big a deal , its just an indication I wouldn't want him to lead the team, just be a very talented player on it.


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

BiG_DeuCE said:


> i never said that.. i just wanted to post my part, and i do not see u as one dimensional, actually you have my respect as a poster, jsut sometimes i hate when people like to up arguments and take it to a higher level. i do agree with everything you say, but I was just posting soem of the details some other people left out


No, that post wasn't directed toward's you as an individual. It was aimed to posters on this board as a whole. I just wanted to address the topic because it seemed relevant with all that has happened in this thread. I wouldn't want to come across as whiney or demanding like people do sometimes.


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## USSKittyHawk (Jul 22, 2005)

Da Grinch said:


> its in vogue to compare marbury unfavorably to the best pg's in the world the last 5 -10 years(nash and kidd) both are pass 1st pg's and leaders things i will easily agree marbury is not.
> i always took marbury's antics as weakness (the rolling his eyes and towel wearing and the such) not maliciousness , its just not smart to show frustration when things are not going your way and in the last 20 years i've seen quite a few stars and franchise players guilty of the same things well as lesser players the pre championship bulls were absolutely horrible in this regard as well as the pre-title lakers. who had nick van exel chanting bahamas after getting down 3-0 to the jazz 1 year as well as the very tangible beef( and fist fight) between shaq and kobe.
> 
> scottie pippen and ho grant wilted under pressure at first like school girls with skinned knees and Mj wasn't much better as he was consistently venting his frustrations and went much further than marbury has ever gone to the point of telling teammates not to pass to bill cartwright late in games or they wont see the ball from him again and at times throwing passes he knew cartwright couldn't handle just to embarrass him, also openly mocking cartwright from everything from his shooting form to his voice which needed surgery after his playing days to fix( a situation that ended with cartwright threatening MJ and then jordan rethought his position on the subjects) Mj has actually had fistfights with teammates ( steve kerr ) or just whacked them and they did nothing because he was MJ (will purdue ) not just yelling spats and as TwinkieFoot already posted as a wizard he made Kwame brown cry with a verbal beating and used his executive power to make team decisions that were not in his job description as a player affecting that team's chemistry in ways marbury could not even begin to do. the ironic thing is as time wore on Scottie became as important a leader as MJ and most of the players consider Scottie the better teammate by far.
> ...


Now I can take the time to read your post without having it come across as being chastised for saying something negative about Steph. Anyway, I'm just saying you can't deny that there are facts out there that support his on the court behavior. There is no coincidence that whenever he is traded to another team players come out of the woodworks, to talk about how he wasn't a great teammate. I remember reading a article in Slam with Amare and The Matrix, and they basically didn't like him either. There is a pattern here, and Grinch you have to look at a glaring fact with certain people who have shown up other players have actually won something. MJ, Pippen all have something. There is a difference with MJ though, he was a leader and he led by example and has a title to show for it. I don't think Steph is a good leader, and to be honest with you that is what is killing the team right now. I don't think Steph knows how to balance his behavior, he always looks like a grouch and is never happy. That's one of the things SAS asked Zeke, can you make Steph into a *leader*? He bypass the question and basically said I'm the leader on this team. I honestly think he was the one laughing when we were losing like crazy in the locker room. I think one of the moves we have to make this season is to bring an establish leader for this team. Look at the roster now and tell me if we have that type of person on this team that fits that criteria, and don't say Malik Rose. LOL


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

Da Grinch said:


> its in vogue to compare marbury unfavorably to the best pg's in the world the last 5 -10 years(nash and kidd) both are pass 1st pg's and leaders things i will easily agree marbury is not.
> i always took marbury's antics as weakness (the rolling his eyes and towel wearing and the such) not maliciousness , its just not smart to show frustration when things are not going your way and in the last 20 years i've seen quite a few stars and franchise players guilty of the same things well as lesser players the pre championship bulls were absolutely horrible in this regard as well as the pre-title lakers. who had nick van exel chanting bahamas after getting down 3-0 to the jazz 1 year as well as the very tangible beef( and fist fight) between shaq and kobe.
> 
> scottie pippen and ho grant wilted under pressure at first like school girls with skinned knees and Mj wasn't much better as he was consistently venting his frustrations and went much further than marbury has ever gone to the point of telling teammates not to pass to bill cartwright late in games or they wont see the ball from him again and at times throwing passes he knew cartwright couldn't handle just to embarrass him, also openly mocking cartwright from everything from his shooting form to his voice which needed surgery after his playing days to fix( a situation that ended with cartwright threatening MJ and then jordan rethought his position on the subjects) Mj has actually had fistfights with teammates ( steve kerr ) or just whacked them and they did nothing because he was MJ (will purdue ) not just yelling spats and as TwinkieFoot already posted as a wizard he made Kwame brown cry with a verbal beating and used his executive power to make team decisions that were not in his job description as a player affecting that team's chemistry in ways marbury could not even begin to do. the ironic thing is as time wore on Scottie became as important a leader as MJ and most of the players consider Scottie the better teammate by far.
> ...


I felt that was an accurate assessment, especially the last part about not wanting Marbury to be the head of the team. I think an essential part of being a leader is the ability to communicate with people to follow you. We all know that one of Marbury's strength is not speech which is unfortunate because he's a really good player. I feel that Steph could accurately be described as a high caliber complimentary player similar to the Vince Carter's and Elton Brand's of the world. By complimentary, I don't mean just your average role player but one of those players that when coupled with another complimentary player results in a championship team. They can not entirely be built around similar to a Kobe Bryant or Lebron James (from what I've seen so far) but they perform at such a high level that they become a cornerstone of the team resulting in a few wins. Examples of this would be both Paul Pierce and Antawn Walker, Rasheed Wallace and the Pistons, Sam Cassell and Brand, Kidd and Carter, etc. The success of each has been a result of them not having to always shoulder the primary responsibilities of their team on their own but share them. It may be possible to build a solid team around either of those guys but I don't think championship level is realistic without both put together on the same team.


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

Kitty said:


> Now I can take the time to read your post without having it come across as being chastised for saying something negative about Steph. Anyway, I'm just saying you can't deny that there are facts out there that support his on the court behavior. *There is no coincidence that whenever he is traded to another team players come out of the woodworks, to talk about how he wasn't a great teammate.* *I remember reading a article in Slam with Amare and The Matrix, and they basically didn't like him either. * There is a pattern here, and Grinch you have to look at a glaring fact with certain people who have shown up other players have actually won something. MJ, Pippen all have something. *There is a difference with MJ though, he was a leader and he led by example and has a title to show for it.* I don't think Steph is a good leader, and to be honest with you that is what is killing the team right now. I don't think Steph knows how to balance his behavior, he always looks like a grouch and is never happy. That's one of the things SAS asked Zeke, can you make Steph into a *leader*? He bypass the question and basically said I'm the leader on this team. I honestly think he was the one laughing when we were losing like crazy in the locker room. I think one of the moves we have to make this season is to bring an establish leader for this team. Look at the roster now and tell me if we have that type of person on this team that fits that criteria, and don't say Malik Rose. LOL



I've heard comments from time to time regarding Marbury and his two former Suns teammates but never heard anything that were seriously alarming. Even in a ESPN article, Marion just mentioned that playing with Marbury was different because he had to create unlike Nash and Kidd. Could he really complain since he averaged career high's with Marbury in the first place? As for Amare, I've heard stories of him wanting the ball more but that's what all scorers want. The guy has a clear mismatch at the 5 position but has complained publically that he doesn't want to sacrifice and play them extendly because he's concerned about his body. Never mind the fact that guys just as tall and in fact weaker like Marcus Camby has been playing that position since '99. I guess that shows us where Amare's mindset is. I remember when Marbury was traded to the Knicks and went to the Olympics that they actually said he and the Suns duo got along. Maybe I have a selective memory but I don't recall ever hearing anything so negative that I'd ever call Marbury a poor teammate. Then again, if it does exist, players go on record and say that they are misquoted all the time. Not necessarily misquoted but reporters choose what they want and not what was said from the interview. They just take what's relevant on what they'll write about (like bashing Marbury which is popular) and concentrate on that. 

I'm also confused how MJ lead by example despite being what most would consider a ***** but Marbury isn't an example because "he doesn't lead by example" with 20ppg and 8apg. I guess being one of only 2 players to do that over a career isn't example enough. But hey, it's just me.


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## 0oh_S0o_FreSh!! (Jun 3, 2006)

TwinkieFoot said:


> I've heard comments from time to time regarding Marbury and his two former Suns teammates but never heard anything that were seriously alarming. Even in a ESPN article, Marion just mentioned that playing with Marbury was different because he had to create unlike Nash and Kidd. Could he really complain since he averaged career high's with Marbury in the first place? As for Amare, I've heard stories of him wanting the ball more but that's what all scorers want. The guy has a clear mismatch at the 5 position but has complained publically that he doesn't want to sacrifice and play them extendly because he's concerned about his body. Never mind the fact that guys just as tall and in fact weaker like Marcus Camby has been playing that position since '99. I guess that shows us where Amare's mindset is. I remember when Marbury was traded to the Knicks and went to the Olympics that they actually said he and the Suns duo got along. Maybe I have a selective memory but I don't recall ever hearing anything so negative that I'd ever call Marbury a poor teammate. Then again, if it does exist, players go on record and say that they are misquoted all the time. Not necessarily misquoted but reporters choose what they want and not what was said from the interview. They just take what's relevant on what they'll write about (like bashing Marbury which is popular) and concentrate on that.
> 
> I'm also confused how MJ lead by example despite being what most would consider a ***** but Marbury isn't an example because "he doesn't lead by example" with 20ppg and 8apg. I guess being one of only 2 players to do that over a career isn't example enough. *But hey, it's just me*.



Exactly.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

Kitty said:


> Now I can take the time to read your post without having it come across as being chastised for saying something negative about Steph. Anyway, I'm just saying you can't deny that there are facts out there that support his on the court behavior. There is no coincidence that whenever he is traded to another team players come out of the woodworks, to talk about how he wasn't a great teammate. I remember reading a article in Slam with Amare and The Matrix, and they basically didn't like him either. There is a pattern here, and Grinch you have to look at a glaring fact with certain people who have shown up other players have actually won something. MJ, Pippen all have something. There is a difference with MJ though, he was a leader and he led by example and has a title to show for it. I don't think Steph is a good leader, and to be honest with you that is what is killing the team right now. I don't think Steph knows how to balance his behavior, he always looks like a grouch and is never happy. That's one of the things SAS asked Zeke, can you make Steph into a *leader*? He bypass the question and basically said I'm the leader on this team. I honestly think he was the one laughing when we were losing like crazy in the locker room. I think one of the moves we have to make this season is to bring an establish leader for this team. Look at the roster now and tell me if we have that type of person on this team that fits that criteria, and don't say Malik Rose. LOL


its a young team , the older guys have proven themselves for the most part not to be leaders . there are enough various role players who do that leader type stuff like jeffries or malik or david lee who do the dirty work, take charges, rebound ,play D , are team 1st and leave the personal stuff for later.

I see a guy who I think will be the leader of this team in Channing also JC to me has grown into a guy i wouldn't at all mind at all being the guy the team looks for leadership from in fact crawford has some pretty good leadership by example things to his credit ( he currently holds the bulls record for offseason workout sessions, he cam back 3 months early to play in meaningless late season games when he came back from an ACL tear and he of course is the only guy on the roster who actually stepped up his game under LB)....Marbury ? no i've alreadysaid quite a bit I dont find him to be leader material. not every guy on the roster has to be a leader , but if he isn't a leader he has to allow himself to be led, if he cant do that then i would have an issue with marbury ...but as of now he is just a guy whom they try to make a leader when he isn't.there are 15 guys on a roster not every1 has to be leadership material , you would of course rather it be your best player , but i dont even find marbury to be a franchise player the guy who is the best player on a championship team...i could see that in channing though...and for the knicks sake he better be.

I find that people make way too much out of what amount to mild personality conflicts ...is he fighting over a woman like jason kidd and jimmy jackson did? not every decent person is very likable its just a fact and I think marbury fits that category .

marbury doesn't look like a grouch when they are winning , like i said before inability to control youself in adversity is a weakness or at least thats how i see it.

as for MJ he did that stuff with cartwright the season before he ever won a title , the reason john paxson even becaome pg is because he didn't allow pg's to run the offense often destroying team chemistry in the process because he wouldn't listen to the coach or run the plays if he didn't want to, so they had to get a pg who didn't need the ball because MJ would dominate it too much. Eventually Pjax got through to him but it took a while.

does the antics of his 1st 6 seasons immediately go away when he won a title in his 7th?

i think no , remember people were calling him a loser, George gervin with a better smile...in the end he became a better teammate but he was by no means perfect and in someways he was still pretty bad.

he didn't win the wizards any titles but he is doing things that were killing his teams , they didn't even make the playoffs while he was there despite a good bit of talent running through there , but their teams tended to fold down the stretch. he certainly then wasn't the player marbury is now. would any1 excuse his behavoir?

abe polin didn't seem to .

but back to the knicks I agree the knicks should go for a another defender vet type , i think francis for eddie jones plus some stuff like a 1st rounder is fair especially with gasol out for the time being...they were already offensively challenged moreso now and who knows how good stoudamire will be now that he is coming off of knee surgery...30ish guards coming off major leg surgery almost always have that 1st bad season til they get the legs back and at 5'9 or 10 he needs his legs to be successful. francis could be that guy who keeps them afloat .

and as to marbury he wasn't the guy who kept any of his bad teams bad, he was good for minny.

new jersey was a wasteland for injuries guys were falling down left and right but they were suddenly healthy when he left.

Pho. has some really good guys who have been added outside of nash and they were a playoff team in his last full season so its not like they were a bad team they are just now much better with a superstar in Amare and nash plus Diaw raja bell and an appearntly still improving marion,and barbosa . they can talk about marbury not being a good teammate but he certainly wasn't holding them down , they went in the toilet when he left them.

the knicks were instantly given a boost in the arm when marbury was aquired , and last year to me was an Lb disaster until either IT falls on his face as head coach or marbury cant take his direction regardless of team performance.


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## USSKittyHawk (Jul 22, 2005)

Da Grinch said:


> its a young team , the older guys have proven themselves for the most part not to be leaders . there are enough various role players who do that leader type stuff like jeffries or malik or david lee who do the dirty work, take charges, rebound ,play D , are team 1st and leave the personal stuff for later.
> 
> I see a guy who I think will be the leader of this team in Channing also JC to me has grown into a guy i wouldn't at all mind at all being the guy the team looks for leadership from in fact crawford has some pretty good leadership by example things to his credit ( he currently holds the bulls record for offseason workout sessions, he cam back 3 months early to play in meaningless late season games when he came back from an ACL tear and he of course is the only guy on the roster who actually stepped up his game under LB)....Marbury ? no i've alreadysaid quite a bit I dont find him to be leader material. not every guy on the roster has to be a leader , but if he isn't a leader he has to allow himself to be led, if he cant do that then i would have an issue with marbury ...but as of now he is just a guy whom they try to make a leader when he isn't.there are 15 guys on a roster not every1 has to be leadership material , you would of course rather it be your best player , but i dont even find marbury to be a franchise player the guy who is the best player on a championship team...i could see that in channing though...and for the knicks sake he better be.
> 
> ...


I pretty much agree with the majority of your post. This is his last chance to prove the critics wrong, if he can't get it done in terms of running the team and following direction, regardless of the "20-8" I just think the guy isn't perfect on the court and he could improve in that area of leadership, etc. When you say that, people want to get all upset because they favorite player is being scrutinize. LOL He is my favorite player too, but he is also has flaws that I like to point out without having to hear all the whining about it, at least you make a good and valid points without overdoing it.


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