# 3 Team deal. Bucks Knicks and Atlanta



## spongyfungy

Don't know. if this was posted.

Stephen A. Smith reports

Milwaukee's Joe Pryzbila, Tim Thomas to the Knicks for Keith Van Horn and Atlanta center Nazr Mohammed for Michael Doleac.

Hawks get Joe Pryzbila (sp) and Doleac

Knicks get Tim Thomas. and Nazr

Milwaukee gets Van Horn


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## Dakota

Is this legitimate?????


If so, the Knicks would seriously improve there already improving squad.


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## Damian Necronamous

Wowza, pretty big deal. I can't believe Van Horn got traded again! 

Anyways, I think it's a good deal for all of the teams involved.

Atlanta unloads more cap. Milwaukee gets a bigger SF/PF, so now they could start Ford, Redd, Mason, Van Horn, Skinner. The Knicks get a faster, more agile SF to run alongside Marbury and Houston. Also, a very capable backup big man in Nazr Mohammed.

PG: Marbury...Williams...Norris
SG: Houston...Hardaway
SF: Thomas...Anderson...Johnson
PF: Thomas...Harrington...Sweetney
C: Mutombo...Mohammed

The Knicks are serious!:yes:


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## Cam*Ron

The Knicks would be messing there squad up drastically. KVH is playing well and they need to try and fit in time for Demarr Johnson and bringing in Tim Thomas will not accomplish anything unless Demarr starts and Tim is the 6th man.


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## WhoDaBest23

I think that's a pretty good trade for all 3 teams. Damian Necronamous basically covered it. I would start to love the Knicks even more with this trade..


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## HKF

I think it is safe to say that Dermarr Johnson is not going to get much PT with the Knicks. 

I actually like this deal for Milwaukee, because Tim Thomas is such a dog that they will get more out of this team without him. Shows how valuable Joel Pryzbilla is. God another damn bust. Why are the big men in the NBA so bad (Centers I mean)?


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## kg_mvp03-04

heres a link for the trade

http://www.tsn.ca/nba/news_story.asp?id=72351


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## Yao_Ming

lol isiah has traded away every white guy on their team.


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## SilentOneX

> Originally posted by <b>Yao_Ming</b>!
> lol isiah has traded away every white guy on their team.


Yeah, sad. VERY SAD. :no:


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## spongyfungy

> Originally posted by <b>Yao_Ming</b>!
> lol isiah has traded away every white guy on their team.


That's exactly what I was thinking. He's trading everyone that even resembles Larry Bird.


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## Mavs Dude

I really like that deal for us we get rid of Thomas who is very inconsistent and get someone that is a much bigger SF.


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## Cam*Ron

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> I think it is safe to say that Dermarr Johnson is not going to get much PT with the Knicks.


Dermarr Johnson will be a future star. And they are probably giving him a spot to start. Maybe. I'll go as far to say that he is better than Tim Thomas right now.


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## reHEATed

> Originally posted by <b>Yao_Ming</b>!
> lol isiah has traded away every white guy on their team.


lol...

i dont know about this trade for them though.....KVH imo is better than Tim Thomas and Doleac has been doin well.


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## Cam*Ron

> Originally posted by <b>Mavs Dude</b>!
> I really like that deal for us we get rid of Thomas who is very inconsistent and get someone that is a much bigger SF.


They're almost the same size and KVH is older and slower.


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## JNice

Wow, I didnt think it was possible for Atlanta to get much worse. Talk about tanking it.


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## HKF

> Originally posted by <b>Bunk 040</b>!
> Dermarr Johnson will be a future star. And they are probably giving him a spot to start. Maybe. I'll go as far to say that he is better than Tim Thomas right now.


But he hasn't been playing for the Knicks really that much since he signed. Come to think of it, I haven't seen him get in a game yet for the Knicks, can any Knicks fan correct me if I am wrong. I watch almost all their games. I doubt they are doing this for Dermarr. He is not going to reach his potential on the Knicks that's for sure. This organization hates rookies.


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## Petey

> Originally posted by <b>spongyfungy</b>!
> 
> 
> That's exactly what I was thinking. He's trading everyone that even resembles Larry Bird.


If his game resembed anything like Larry Bird's the man would still be a Net.

-Petey


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## spongyfungy

I'm listening to it on NBA today on espn radio. Stephen A. Smith confirms it. 

He also says Vin Baker is trying to make it on the Knicks squad. 

Isiah only sees talent. chemistry means little to him.


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## KokoTheMonkey

I haven't seen any reports on any websites that show this is true, so I'm not going to say it's done yet.


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## KokoTheMonkey

Actually, MJG provided one: LINK


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## AL9045

So who is going to start at C for the Hawks? 

Doleac?


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## Pumpkin_Escobar

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> 
> He is not going to reach his potential on the Knicks that's for sure. This organization hates rookies.


Well considering he is not a rookie maybe he hasn't done anything to earn PT?


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## xbballplaya223x

van horn > tim thomas


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## reHEATed

> Originally posted by <b>AL9045</b>!
> So who is going to start at C for the Hawks?
> 
> Doleac?


probably rasheed, with henderson at pf...or at least that would be my guess


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## HKF

> Originally posted by <b>Profanity</b>!
> 
> 
> Well considering he is not a rookie maybe he hasn't done anything to earn PT?


What I meant was to say that they don't like developing young talent. They prefer to trade for established talent only.


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## reHEATed

> Originally posted by <b>xbballplaya223x</b>!
> van horn > tim thomas


thats how i feel...i dont see how the knicks improved much


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## AL9045

Why would they trade Nazr? From what I heard, it sounded like he was a decent player, are they rebuilding...again?


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## ivo_krka

Knicks and Bucks took the opportunity to improve their squads and have a respectable position going into the playoffs. Knicks lost Van Horn for T.Thomas who's probably worse player than Van Horn, but they streghtened their squad with a good center like Mohammed who'll really improve Knicks' frontcourt. Bucks got a solid shooter like Van Horn who'll fit in their squad perfectly, is going to help Redd offensively and is going to contribute in teams rebounding plus he already played with Skinner in Philadelphia. Only team that's losing are Hawks, but after all it seems like they want to free a lot of salary cap space and are trying to get the No.1 draft pick.


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## hobojoe

> Originally posted by <b>Petey</b>!
> 
> 
> If his game resembed anything like Larry Bird's the man would still be a Net.
> 
> -Petey


I think he means Isiah's trading away every player that resembles Bird in skin color because obviously he and Bird have had their disagreements...


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## hobojoe

Wow, this leaves them with Rasheed as the only legit big man. I guess they're really trying to tank this season and draft homeboy Dwight Howard...


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## Amareca

Dumd move by New York, dumb.

KVH and Marbury might not like each other but they complement each other perfectly.
Keith Van Horn had his best years with Marbury.

Marbury needs real shooters, spot up shooters. Keith Van Horn > Tim Thomas and Nazr is just an average big guy at best with rather big contract.


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## rwj333

so what's the rotation for the hawks now?


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## Coatesvillain

Call me an idiot, but I like how Atlanta's thinking. It may come across as them tanking it, but if they didn't make these deals, they wouldn't be much better than they are now anyway. Fans aren't coming to games, there were empty seats even when they were in the playoffs, they obviously have absolutely nothing to lose.

So instead of going and taking on bad contracts, and trying to play the infamous game of trade - catchup (re: Philly special), they're trying to start off as fresh as possible. With the success that some teams have had when rebuilding, it doesn't make things look too bad at all, especially when you figure in how bad their division figures to be next season.

A question though, can you actually call it tanking if you were already ridiculously bad?


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## spongyfungy

[email protected] all the people that picked up nazr in their fantasy leagues after Theo left.


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## rwj333

> Originally posted by <b>spongyfungy</b>!
> [email protected] all the people that picked up nazr in their fantasy leagues after Theo left.


I did that.


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## LionOfJudah

My only problem with this trade is the Bucks have the best disapearing act in the game when it comes to the playoffs with KVH. Other then that I like the addition to TJ's arsenal.


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## KrispyKreme23

The knicks haven't traded away every white guy on the team yet. They still have Cezary Trybanski!!


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## spongyfungy

> Originally posted by <b>rwj333</b>!
> 
> 
> I did that.


I was just about to after tonight. 

Doleac would probably start.
PG Terry 
SG Boris Diaw / Wesley Person / Dion Glover
SF Stephen Jackson / Glover / Diaw/ Crawford
PF Sheed /
C Doleac / Joe Pryzbilla

Chris Crawford/Weley Person

Joe P hasn't played since Dec

Marc Stein says they have about 50 mil to spend and will go after Kobe or AI.


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## AL9045

I picked Nazr up in 3 leagues...dropped his ***. .


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## KB21

The Hawks will probably look to move Jason Terry at the first opportunity this offseason. If it weren't for his BYC status, he would be traded before the trade deadline. If the Hawks can work out a deal with a team under the cap or a team that has something Utah wants in a three way, they may deal Terry before the trade deadline.

What the Hawks are doing is very similar to what Denver did a couple of years ago when they decided to send off Antonio McDyesse and Nick Van Excel to clear up cap room and guarantee a high draft pick.

The Hawks want to get in on the Dwight Howard sweepstakes, and they also want to make a big push to get either Kobe Bryant or Allen Iverson in Atlanta.


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## spongyfungy

> Originally posted by <b>KB21</b>!
> The Hawks will probably look to move Jason Terry at the first opportunity this offseason. If it weren't for his BYC status, he would be traded before the trade deadline. If the Hawks can work out a deal with a team under the cap or a team that has something Utah wants in a three way, they may deal Terry before the trade deadline.
> 
> What the Hawks are doing is very similar to what Denver did a couple of years ago when they decided to send off Antonio McDyesse and Nick Van Excel to clear up cap room and guarantee a high draft pick.
> 
> The Hawks want to get in on the Dwight Howard sweepstakes, and they also want to make a big push to get either Kobe Bryant or Allen Iverson in Atlanta.


Do you think if Atlanta gets Howard, how man will FA's will they try to sign? He can start immediately I think. Kobe, Nash or AI, quentin. uh any other FA"s?


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## The_Franchise

> Originally posted by <b>spongyfungy</b>!
> 
> Isiah only sees talent. chemistry means little to him.


Great point, people are talking about Tim Thomas running alongside Marbury and Houston, but what about KVH? The guys a dangerous perimeter threat and you know he can put up some big numbers in the playoffs. I thought KVH was turning into a decent fit for this team, and now with Tim Thomas and Nazr Mohammed I don't see the Knicks getting any better.


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## ErikDaniels14UK

for the minutes nazr is getting hes putting up alright numbers.


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## The_Franchise

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=1735956

ESPN Confirms the Trade

We knew New York was going to get SOME big man before the deadline... and it was going to be Baker in all likelihood, but Nazr Mohammed? Let's see if he can rekindle some of his old Philly magic.


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## Petey

> Originally posted by <b>rukahS capuT</b>!
> 
> 
> I think he means Isiah's trading away every player that resembles Bird in skin color because obviously he and Bird have had their disagreements...


Yes I know.

-Petey


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## Petey

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> Dumd move by New York, dumb.
> 
> KVH and Marbury might not like each other but they complement each other perfectly.
> Keith Van Horn had his best years with Marbury.
> 
> Marbury needs real shooters, spot up shooters. Keith Van Horn > Tim Thomas and Nazr is just an average big guy at best with rather big contract.


\

KVH had his best year stats wise when playing with Marbury due to the injury with Kittles. If it wasn't Marbury jacking, it was KVH. Anyway I think his best season was actually with Sam Cassell, when Kittles, KVH, Rony, Jason Williams and Cassell went to the playoffs and were beat by the Bulls.

-Petey


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## KB21

> Originally posted by <b>spongyfungy</b>!
> 
> 
> Do you think if Atlanta gets Howard, how man will FA's will they try to sign? He can start immediately I think. Kobe, Nash or AI, quentin. uh any other FA"s?


I think the amount of money Atlanta will have, the guarantee of a high draft pick, and a new marketing strategy under the new ownership will be very attractive to potential free agents.

Kobe Bryant is an ego driven player, and what would be a bigger ego booster than to revive basketball in Atlanta?


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## xbballplaya223x

From the New York Post: 

Early Sunday evening the New York Knicks completed a 3 team deal that would send out Scott Layden holdovers, Keith Van Horn and Michael Doleac, in exchange for F Tim Thomas of the Milwaukee Bucks and C Nazr Mohammad of the Atlanta Hawks. The Hawks get Doleac and C Joel Przybilla while the Bucks received Keith Van Horn and the $45 million remaining on his contract. Daily News reporters caught up with General Manager Isiah Thomas at the all-star festivities and questioned why he felt Van Horn had to be moved. 

"We're in a position where we want to compete right now." Thomas said. "Nazr Mohammad gives us some more size in the front court and if Keith Van Horn were black, he would be just another Tim Thomas."


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## rainman

rights to vujanic,gone
lampe,gone
doleac,gone
kvh,gone
not having any white guys left,for issah-priceless


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## The_Franchise

A healthy Kobe Bryant, Michael Vick and Atlanta could become a booming sports city once again. Not happening, I don't think Kobe's pride will allow him to be seen in an Atlanta uniform, solely based on the fact that they've accomplished nothing and been a laughing stock for the past decade. But then again, so was Denver, and look what they have become.


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## HKF

The Knicks still have the Polish dude Trybanzski. I think that is how you spell his last name. Expect him to be cut in the next day or two.


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## HKF

> Originally posted by <b>The Franchise</b>!
> A healthy Kobe Bryant, Michael Vick and Atlanta could become a booming sports city once again. Not happening, I don't think Kobe's pride will allow him to be seen in an Atlanta uniform, solely based on the fact that they've accomplished nothing and been a laughing stock for the past decade. But then again, so was Denver, and look what they have become.


I don't expect Kobe to go to Atlanta, but you know Atlanta is kind of a black city and believe it or not but a lot of black people really do not like Kobe Bryant. They think of him as a poser. I don't think of him as that, but a lot of inner city peeps that I have talked to don't like him at all. I still don't know how he is always one of the biggest vote getters in the NBA, for the all-star game.


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## rainman

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> The Knicks still have the Polish dude Trybanzski. I think that is how you spell his last name. Expect him to be cut in the next day or two.


he'll be the token guy at the end of the bench, he should pack his bags just in case.


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## JNice

> Originally posted by <b>xbballplaya223x</b>!
> "We're in a position where we want to compete right now." Thomas said. "Nazr Mohammad gives us some more size in the front court and *if Keith Van Horn were black*, he would be just another Tim Thomas."


I'm hoping Thomas didnt really say that.


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## Charlie Brown

I'm glad KVH got out of the tri-state area. The Bucks are probably the best fit for him out of all of the teams he has been on.


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## spongyfungy

> Originally posted by <b>KB21</b>!
> 
> 
> I think the amount of money Atlanta will have, the guarantee of a high draft pick, and a new marketing strategy under the new ownership will be very attractive to potential free agents.
> 
> Kobe Bryant is an ego driven player, and what would be a bigger ego booster than to revive basketball in Atlanta?


hm. Atlanta Journal Constitution reports

*P. Diddy wants to buy a team either Atlanta or Florida. Heat owner says he will take on investors but P Diddy wants to be Majority owner.*
http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/0204/14nba.html


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## KrispyKreme23

> Originally posted by *spongyfungy*
> 
> Do you think if Atlanta gets Howard, how man will FA's will they try to sign? He can start immediately I think. Kobe, Nash or AI, quentin. uh any other FA"s?


I think AI resigned with Philly


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## rebelsun

I think it's a good move for all 3 teams.

NY: Get Nazy and Timmy for KVH, although playing well, a player that management wasn't fond of. I think the Knicks will be significantly improved.

Mil: Unload Tim's contract and attitude, and get a similar player (if not better) in Van Horn. I think Van Horn will be a much better fit in Wisconsin than in NYC.

Atl: Just another cap casualty move. They get one modestly-talented-overachieving post player, and one overly-talented, underachieving post player. Hawks are looking to clean house and win the lottery.


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## Coatesvillain

> Originally posted by <b>The Franchise</b>!
> A healthy Kobe Bryant, Michael Vick and Atlanta could become a booming sports city once again. Not happening, I don't think Kobe's pride will allow him to be seen in an Atlanta uniform, solely based on the fact that they've accomplished nothing and been a laughing stock for the past decade. But then again, so was Denver, and look what they have become.


Which is exactly why Atlanta has to approach the situation like Denver, and try to put a winning culture in place for the team first and foremost. After the whole Orlando debacle, I don't think anyone can really just attract a superstar to come somewhere without anything in place. Anyway, anything short of Allen Iverson or Lebron James right now on the Hawks won't sell out home games on a good basis, so they have to go the other route and try playing an exciting style of ball. Sometimes having exciting games is almost better than just being a winning team, because then the fans feel like they'll at least be entertained and might get them to come out. I'm not sure if that'd work in Atlanta but it's worth a try, right?

Also, Quentin Richardson would be a good acquisition for Atlanta, but I'm hoping they don't do what Chicago did and panic when they don't get big names and overpay free agents.


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## sportsfan

> Originally posted by <b>Bunk 040</b>!
> They're almost the same size and KVH is older and slower.


Yep, both list as 6'10", 240. Van Horn is 1 1/2 years older than Thomas and probably slower. So is it still a good deal for Milwaukee? I think so. The only concern is how quick will Van Horn mesh with the club.. There shouldn't be a big change in distribution of minutes and the rotation stays the same.

As for the financial side of it, here's next years numbers:

Van Horn- $14.5M

Thomas- $12.9M
Pryzbilla- $3.2M (qualifying offer)

So even assuming that Milwaukee wouldn't have brought Pryz back they're only taking on an extra $1.6M. Plus, next year's Kukoc's $9.6M comes off the books so they have some money to re-sign Jones and Gads (and maybe bring Kukoc back at a much reduced salary).


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## Damian Necronamous

> Originally posted by <b>AL9045</b>!
> Why would they trade Nazr? From what I heard, it sounded like he was a decent player, are they rebuilding...again?


$5M more in cap space...


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## bigdbucks

As a Bucks fan i personally like this move. TT has been below average at best. He shows no effort. At least with KVH he will give some kind of effort. As for the starting lineup for the Bucks i see Dez starting at the 3 and KVH backing up the 3 and 4. If the Bucks did this before TT would've broken the chemistry


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## spongyfungy

> Originally posted by <b>KrispyKreme23</b>!
> 
> 
> I think AI resigned with Philly


my bad . I just read Stein's article and it mentioned AI

"Another possibility: The Hawks will peddle a native Philadelphian ('Sheed) and that trade-friendly cap space in an attempt to concoct a deal that brings them Allen Iverson. The Answer could fill Philips regularly if given the chance."


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## CP26

Keith was doing real well in NYC


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## Amareca

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> 
> 
> $5M more in cap space...


In 2005.


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## FanOfAll8472

I cringe if the Bucks will play Van Horn at the 4. I thought they wanted more size. Plus, no way he starts over Smith at the 4 for whoever posted that earlier. I think he starts at the 3 and Mason comes off the bench at the 2 and 3. Porter has said that he likes Mason better at the 2.

As for the Knicks, they just dumped KVH who was playing very well next to Starbury. And also got rid of their second best pick and pop guy with Marbury.

The Hawks might as well just not protect Jason Terry. That would free up more cap space...


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## sportsfan

> Originally posted by <b>FanOfAll8472</b>!
> I cringe if the Bucks will play Van Horn at the 4. I thought they wanted more size. Plus, no way he starts over Smith at the 4 for whoever posted that earlier. I think he starts at the 3 and Mason comes off the bench at the 2 and 3. Porter has said that he likes Mason better at the 2.


I say just plug Van Horn into Thomas' spot in the starting lineup, I'd hate to see Porter start messing with a rotation that's been working real well so far (Mason and Kukoc off the bench, along with Jones and Gads).

C- Skinner, Gads
PF- Smith, Haislip ?
SF- Van Horn, Kukoc
SG- Redd, Mason
PG- Ford, Jones

I like, I like! :yes:


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## KB21

> Originally posted by <b>Air McNair 09</b>!
> Keith was doing real well in NYC


Nope. That cap space will come in 2004. Michael Doleac has a player's option that he may not take, and Joel Pryzbilla has a qualifying offer of $3.6 million that the Hawks won't offer.


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## KB21

Oh, the Hawks will also get a 2nd round pick from the Knicks in this deal as well.


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## Cam*Ron

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> 
> 
> I don't expect Kobe to go to Atlanta, but you know Atlanta is kind of a black city and believe it or not but a lot of black people really do not like Kobe Bryant. They think of him as a poser. I don't think of him as that, but a lot of inner city peeps that I have talked to don't like him at all. I still don't know how he is always one of the biggest vote getters in the NBA, for the all-star game.


Black people love this cat, seriously. Black women hate him because they LOVE him. Alot of male ball-players respect this dude to the fullest, many people just say they don't like him to try and make a stance and be different. Atlanta would love this kid.


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## HKF

> Originally posted by <b>Bunk 040</b>!
> Black people love this cat, seriously. Black women hate him because they LOVE him. Alot of male ball-players respect this dude to the fullest, many people just say they don't like him to try and make a stance and be different. Atlanta would love this kid.


You could and I hope you are right. It's just I always see people ripping Kobe and I don't feel like defending him when watching a basketball game.


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## NYCbballFan

The Hawks are obviously dumping salary. They've written off the season.

Tim Thomas is potentially a better player than the also-talented Van Horn, but not by much. The key for Bucks is dumping a disappointing player. KVH doesn't have Thomas' baggage. Van Horn should do well with the Bucks for the same reason he would have done well with the Knicks. He doesn't need to carry the offense with the deep Bucks, especially in the post-season, and should contribute by playing off of Redd, Kukoc and the rest.

At least part of the reason Isiah Thomas traded Van Horn is that he planned to do so from the start. Whatever success the Knicks could have achieved with Layden's players, Thomas is remaking the team into his vision of a Marbury-led, athletic, high-octane attack. Trading Doleac and Van Horn, two sweet-shooting, skilled bigs, for better athletes effectively does that. While Tim Thomas has only marginally more talent than Van Horn and has been a bigger disappointment, the key is Tim Thomas' athleticism at SF to replace Van Horn's 'tweener' athletic ability. Isiah Thomas has consistently added superior athletes with his acquisitions. To balance the loss of Van Horn, I would like to have kept Doleac's pick-and-roll ability at C, but Mohammed adds the low-post banger the Knicks need. The Knicks are now a different team. Whether they're a better team remains to be seen.


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## #1BucksFan

Van Horn is out of the Northeast. he is so much more consistant then Tim Thomas. I like it for the Bucks.

Between Marbary, Houston, and now Tim Thomas, where will Kurt Thomas get his shots :laugh: ? But Timmy has always been a potential superstar (coming out of high school, he was the #1 prospect from his class; others being Kobe and Jermaine O'Neal), and the Knicks could be the big winners from this trade in years to come.

Atlanta, good luck getting Dwight Howard. (or Emeka)


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## Kunlun

> Originally posted by <b>xbballplaya223x</b>!
> From the New York Post:
> "We're in a position where we want to compete right now." Thomas said. "Nazr Mohammad gives us some more size in the front court and if Keith Van Horn were black, he would be just another Tim Thomas."


LOL


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## KIMCHI

> Originally posted by <b>Mavs Dude</b>!
> I really like that deal for us we get rid of Thomas who is very inconsistent and get someone that is a much bigger SF.


whos that much bigger sf than tim thomas in this trade ? keith van horn ?? they are about the same size


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## KIMCHI

> Originally posted by <b>ostertag-fan</b>!
> Van Horn is out of the Northeast. he is so much more consistant then Tim Thomas. I like it for the Bucks.
> 
> Between Marbary, Houston, and now Tim Thomas, where will Kurt Thomas get his shots :laugh: ? But Timmy has always been a potential superstar (coming out of high school, he was the #1 prospect from his class; others being Kobe and Jermaine O'Neal), and the Knicks could be the big winners from this trade in years to come.
> 
> Atlanta, good luck getting Dwight Howard. (or Emeka)


tim thomas is a very interesting case, he doesnt have have the personal baggage like rasheed wallace or eddie griffin nor has he suffer from a major accident like dermarr johnson, so i really couldnt understand why he cant progress into a superstar, just what da hell is wrong with kid ?? lack of desire ?? lack of focus ?? lazy ?? contend with being average ??

he indeed does have everything it takes to become a superstar (same can be say for numerous of others) and he really has no excuse why he cant take it to the next level, perhaps hes one of those guys in the league that thinks "ok i am in the nba, wow have million dollar contract, ok i might as well play like this until i retire, why should i push myself so hard to become a superstar, its all good now"
dont you think so ?


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## NYKBaller

TT also has more hops than KVh, so a better running game. I'm envisioning.

PG-Marbury
SG-D. Johnson
SF-Tim Thomas
PF-Stromile Swift/Rasheed Wallace/Mike Sweetney
C-Nazr Mohammed


For the future, I really wanted that Erick Dampier trade to come through though.


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## Jmonty580

I. Thomas just hates anything that is connected to Layden. KVH has been working wonders for NY and now he'sgone, and we still dont know how Houstons knees are gonna hold up. 

Tim Thomas scores less, rebounds way less (only about 4 rebound a game for a 6'10 guy?) and is lower in almost every stat except for assists. We did not get better through this trade. Eric Dampier would have made us better but what will Mohamad do? He has been playing for 6 years and hasnt done anything great, what makes him such a good player now? Now there is talk about picking up Vin Baker, if this goes down Thomas is going over board with his trades.


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## NYCbballFan

In terms of comparing individual pieces, Mohammed and Doleac are different, but are pretty much a wash in unqualified value. Same with Van Horn and Thomas, except Van Horn is actually more productive.

Another way to judge the trade is whether it makes the Knicks a better team. Mohammed provides an inside banger, the athletic defender/rebounder the Knicks lack. Tim Thomas instead of Van Horn radically transforms the Knicks into a quicker, more athletic team with all that implies. In other words, the old formula was okay, but I-Thomas wants a new formula - more up-tempo, more athletic, more dynamic. It's tough to give up the proven skills Doleac and Van Horn could bring every night, and I would like to have kept one of them. Trading Doleac and Van Horn is a case of taking a step back to try to take two steps forward.

Tim Thomas has always had a world of potential. This guy came out of HS with as much hype as any player not named Lebron. If I-Thomas can bring that potential out, this trade will be more than about trading production for athleticism. The Knicks need Houston to come back effective, too, to make up for the loss in perimeter shooting.


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## NYKBaller

It's like the lotto, you'll never know....


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## Mavs Dude

> Originally posted by <b>KIMCHI</b>!
> 
> 
> whos that much bigger sf than tim thomas in this trade ? keith van horn ?? they are about the same size


Yeah I realized that but if you look at both KVH looks much bigger than TT.


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## kawika

> Originally posted by <b>NYCbballFan</b>!
> In terms of comparing individual pieces, Mohammed and Doleac are different, but are pretty much a wash in unqualified value. Same with Van Horn and Thomas, except Van Horn is actually more productive.
> 
> Another way to judge the trade is whether it makes the Knicks a better team. Mohammed provides an inside banger, the athletic defender/rebounder the Knicks lack. Tim Thomas instead of Van Horn radically transforms the Knicks into a quicker, more athletic team with all that implies. In other words, the old formula was okay, but I-Thomas wants a new formula - more up-tempo, more athletic, more dynamic. It's tough to give up the proven skills Doleac and Van Horn could bring every night, and I would like to have kept one of them. Trading Doleac and Van Horn is a case of taking a step back to try to take two steps forward.
> 
> Tim Thomas has always had a world of potential. This guy came out of HS with as much hype as any player not named Lebron. If I-Thomas can bring that potential out, this trade will be more than about trading production for athleticism. The Knicks need Houston to come back effective, too, to make up for the loss in perimeter shooting.


That's a really excellent analysis, NYCbballFan. I realize you're not saying it's going to happen, or even is likely to happen, but for all the folks who keep thinking that Thomas has all this untapped potential, and just needs to "put it together", I think some perspective is in order.

In '97-98, his first year in the league he did 11/4 in 23mpg. This year, he's gonna set career highs in ppg/rpg at 14/5 in 32mpg. He'll be 27 years old in ten days. Don't your breath peeps.


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