# Best Shooter in College Basketball?



## Middy

I wonder how many people will say JJ Reddick. :no: damn you ESPN.

Lute Olson thinks Salim Stoudamire is. 



> The left-handed senior, who entered the game as the No. 2 3-point shooter in the country at 56.2 percent, finished with 32 points. He scored 24 of the Wildcats' final 29 points.
> 
> "He is the best shooter in the country, hands down," Arizona coach Lute Olson said. "They talk about the guy at Duke (J.J. Redick), but I will put Salim up against him anytime."


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## Don Corleone

Daniel Ewing


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## FGators

I'll say Travis Diener. The kid doesn't get the wide open looks JJ Redick gets. And I think Reddick is a better shooter than Stoudamire. St Joes Pat Carroll is an underrated pick.


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## TM

> Originally posted by <b>FGators</b>!
> The kid doesn't get the wide open looks JJ Redick gets.


You haven't been paying attention to many Duke games this year have you. The wide open looks of his freshman/soph year are few and far between anymore... If I were a coach and had to pick, I'd take either Diener or Redick... Looking at stats, Ewing, I think may be the best choice given so far. I'm sure there's some dude as some small podunk school that's better, but I'll stick with the guys who've acatually played against some competition.


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## HB

Add Rashard Mccants to that list


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## Middy

stoudamire's stats:

He's 80 of 151 on all FGs, coming out to 53.0% on the year 

and 50 of 89 from 3pt distance. That's 56.2%

not only is stoudamire potent, but he has been extremely efficient as well.


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## On Thre3

rashads 3s are a little overlooked because he can do so much more


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## Jonathan Watters

Reddick is one of the top 2 or 3 shooters in the country. I dare you to watch him play a couple of times and disagree with me. Adam Morrison is finally getting some respect for his stroke. Dijon Thompson and Tre Simmons are a couple of west coast shooters flying largely under the radar at the moment.

I don't think McCants is one of the top 10 or even 20 shooters in the nation. He shoots well because people have to respect his drive, not because he is a great shooter. If defenses forced McCants to run off of three picks and then fade away from 25 onevery look, he wouldn't shoot half the percentage that JJ Reddick does.


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## VincentVega

Stoudamire, when hot, is arguably (probably?) the best long range shooter in the country. When cold, he can shoot your team right out of a win and into a loss.


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## zagsfan20

Derek Raivio- Automatic when left open for three

Adam Morrison- Best hand in the face shooter i have ever seen at the college level

Gerry McNamara

Daniel Bobik

Travis Diener

Bryce Taylor- Oregon Frosh


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## The Truth

> Originally posted by <b>FGators</b>!
> I'll say Travis Diener. The kid doesn't get the wide open looks JJ Redick gets. And I think Reddick is a better shooter than Stoudamire. St Joes Pat Carroll is an underrated pick.



What games are you watching? Because of Redick and Duke's publicity, Redick is a target every time he steps on the court. The reason he takes so many wild shots is that is all he can get.


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## Middy

> Originally posted by <b>VincentVega</b>!
> Stoudamire, when hot, is arguably (probably?) the best long range shooter in the country. When cold, he can shoot your team right out of a win and into a loss.


That was true last year. This year Stoudamire has been so selective and unselfish with his own shots that Olson criticizes him for not shooting enough. He has become someone who realizes his ability to take over the game but is still concious of getting his teammates involved.

He is a totally different player than the one who torched the Jayhawks at Phog...


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## Ghost

J.J. Reddick
Justin Gray
Derak Ravio
Stoudamire


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## Geaux Tigers

Its gotta be J.J. Reddick. He is covered on every three he takes. IF by chance he is wide open on a three its because he took it in the fast break or if there was a great screen. Even the good screens dont help that much because they hedge out on him so much.


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## TucsonClip

> Originally posted by <b>VincentVega</b>!
> Stoudamire, when hot, is arguably (probably?) the best long range shooter in the country. When cold, he can shoot your team right out of a win and into a loss.


With all do respect I don't think I've ever seen Salim shoot us out of any games. Of course that is my opinion versus your's. If Salim is not on, he will not take more then 10 shots. If the 3 isn't falling he trys to penetrate more and is usualy out of control, because of frustration.

However I have seen J.J. shoot Duke out of a few games easily. When J.J. is on he is amazing, but contrary to popular belief J.J. is never really "on" for more then about 6 games. Just look back at his FG and 3pt percentages. Salim has always shot around 50% from the field and mid to high 40% from 3pt.


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## Stevie B

I liked Redick and Stoudamire as two of the very best.

Don't forget Ben Jacobson of Northern Iowa. He is a fantastic shooter as well. Shooting over 50 percent this year.

Salim's #'s are tough to ignore though.


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## Milo35

Don't sleep on Taquan Dean of Louisville


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## Middy

Stoudamire shoots 56.2% from 3pt land, and the only player in DI with more made 3pt shots is Will Whitington of Marist with 59-110. Stoudamire is 50-89. 

He is easily the most efficient 3 point shooter in college.


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## Stevie B

> Originally posted by <b>Middy</b>!
> Stoudamire shoots 56.2% from 3pt land, and the only player in DI with more made 3pt shots is Will Whitington of Marist with 59-110. Stoudamire is 50-89.
> 
> He is easily the most efficient 3 point shooter in college.


LOL. Are you not the same guy who started this topic: Best Shooter in College Basketball? 

Shouldn't that be Best shooter in College Basketball! if you are so certain of your findings.


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## vadimivich

Rashad McCants has made 41 3-pt baskets. That's near the very top in the nation. To the guy who said that he only gets 3's because people respect his ability to get to the hole ... well, they respect it an awful lot because he shoots a ton of them, and shoots them very accurately. 

He has tremendous range, at least as deep as Redick, not to mention he's a stone cold killer at the end of games (example: UCONN last year).

For my money, he's the best 3-pt shooter in the country, and that's a large reason he's the best scorer in the country. He gets to the hole a lot because he can get people off their feet with his shot fake.


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## Premier

Fransisco Garcia.


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## Jonathan Watters

> Originally posted by <b>vadimivich</b>!
> Rashad McCants has made 41 3-pt baskets. That's near the very top in the nation. To the guy who said that he only gets 3's because people respect his ability to get to the hole ... well, they respect it an awful lot because he shoots a ton of them, and shoots them very accurately.
> 
> He has tremendous range, at least as deep as Redick, not to mention he's a stone cold killer at the end of games (example: UCONN last year).
> 
> For my money, he's the best 3-pt shooter in the country, and that's a large reason he's the best scorer in the country. He gets to the hole a lot because he can get people off their feet with his shot fake.


McCants is a decent shooter, but he is a scorer, not a shooter. If defenses paid attention to McCants like they do to Reddick, McCants wouldn't be near the top of the list. Reddick gets extra credit from me as a shooter just because teams plan their entire defensive strategy around the guy. He still shoots great percentages, and at the same time is opening up the rest of the court for his teammates. 

I don't think this is a knock on Rashad at all. If we are listing best pure scorers in college, he is up there near the top. But as far as shooters? Sorry, I just don't see it.


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## Middy

> Originally posted by <b>Stevie B</b>!
> 
> 
> LOL. Are you not the same guy who started this topic: Best Shooter in College Basketball?
> 
> Shouldn't that be Best shooter in College Basketball! if you are so certain of your findings.


No.

The only claim I made about Stoudamire was that he was the most efficient shooter in college basketball. I never asserted that he was the "best shooter," I just provided statistics and 1 quote.

Another quote from a Ben Hansen article on goazcats.com :



> Oregon Head Coach Ernie Kent:
> 
> "You're not going to shut down a Salim Stoudamire or a (Channing) Frye or Hassan Adams. Salim had close to 40 on us last year and that just can't happen. If he gets near that many this time it's going to be a long night for us.
> 
> "Ever since he came back from the suspension he has just been, to me, the best shooter in the country when you look at his numbers and what he has done. He has an incredible ability to take over a game and dominate a game in a lot of different ways in terms of scoring. We definitely have to limit his touches. We're not going to do anything he hasn't seen before but we have to limit his touches because if he gets 15, 16, 17 shots it's going to be a long night for us. You have to find him early in transition and get someone on him because he can make shots from well beyond the NBA three-point line."


http://arizona.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=380289


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## One on One

No question it's JJ Redick. It takes about two or three screens to get him an open look because the D pays so much attention to him. Look at his FT shooting too, at 94%.


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## FightingSioux

My vote goes to JJ.


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## zagsfan20

Best 3-point shooter.....Derek Raivio


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## azswami

Andy Katz finally figuring out what everyone on the west coast knows, except for Zagsfan.

On college gamenight just now katz said you have to take salim over redick as a shooter....

and it's not even close! I know JJ often takes 23, 24 footers, even off balance....

But Salim has been given the green light to shoot from 28 foot at any point in a game by Lute, if he's open.... and press reports proves that he's routinely rattled of 28 and 29 footers in games, all while creeping up on the NCAA's season 3 pt. shooting record. He is currently listed at #1 (2 days ago) per NCAA stats.

Steve Kerr is the NBA's all time 3 pt. shooting% leader and shot 57.2% his senior year at UA. Salim is now at 56.9%, and is rising every game. He started the season in a slump, and has been shooting 3's in the mid 60's since sitting the game against Marquette.... an 11 or 12 gane stretch,

At one point in a shooting drill earlier this year, Salim made 77 straight from behind the 3 point arc.

Bottom line, as nice a stroke as JJ Redick has, anyone picking him over Salim has one of the following reasons;

A) I live in the east and never see Salim play,

B) I live in the east and only care about ACC ball,

C) Dick Vitale is my guide and I follow everything he says,

D) I don't get Fox Sports,

E) I go to bed at 7:30,

F) The ACC is the flagship of ESPN, and Duke is the Admiral... It just can't be that anyone is better than JJ.

Check the stats, Salim is so far above JJ it's sick. AND he pops of 28 and 29 footers in the flow of the game. 

Might take a bit, but I could provide a link to every last thing I said about Salim if needed.


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## ChristopherJ

JJ Redick


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## azswami

Salim has shot a higher percentage than Redick year after year - it's been a given. Played for the wrong team in the wrong conference for recognition.

Decourcey;

>>>Olson regularly calls Stoudamire the best shooter in college basketball and is starting to make a case for him as the best player. Stoudamire, who had been focusing too much on his NBA future, responded to his short punishment with a brilliant surge. Stoudamire has hit *64.8* percent of his 3-pointers and averaged 19.1 points over 10 games. <<<

Yeah, Salim can't shoot worth shiit!! 

Guess what!!! They can't hide it any longer!!!!

That's why players like Duhon go Lotto and suck, and players like Arenas go second round and are top 10 scorers by the time they reach 21!

Like I said, JJ has a nice stroke, compared to Salim, not even close. If this threa is still pimping JJ, next time I have a moment i will embarrass with stats, quotes, etc.

Untill then Dukies, Dick says JJ is the best, so he's the best.

.... Not even close!


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## zagsfan20

> That's why players like Duhon go Lotto and suck, and players like Arenas go second round and are top 10 scorers by the time they reach 21!


Actually Duhon was a second round pick.....


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## JuniorNoboa

> Originally posted by <b>azswami</b>!
> Salim has shot a higher percentage than Redick year after year - it's been a given. Played for the wrong team in the wrong conference for recognition.
> 
> Decourcey;
> 
> >>>*Olson regularly calls Stoudamire the best shooter in college basketball and is starting to make a case for him as the best player *. Stoudamire, who had been focusing too much on his NBA future, responded to his short punishment with a brilliant surge. Stoudamire has hit *64.8* percent of his 3-pointers and averaged 19.1 points over 10 games. <<<
> 
> Yeah, Salim can't shoot worth shiit!!
> 
> Guess what!!! They can't hide it any longer!!!!
> 
> That's why players like Duhon go Lotto and suck, and players like Arenas go second round and are top 10 scorers by the time they reach 21!
> 
> Like I said, JJ has a nice stroke, compared to Salim, not even close. If this threa is still pimping JJ, next time I have a moment i will embarrass with stats, quotes, etc.
> 
> Untill then Dukies, Dick says JJ is the best, so he's the best.
> 
> .... Not even close!


And Olson is not biased


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## Critic

No ones even mentioned Marc Jackson at Utah...

He can really stroke it from outside...especially when open. He's well over 50% from deep so far this season


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## Reece Gaines

Taquan Dean


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## HeinzGuderian

> Originally posted by <b>azswami</b>!
> That's why players like Duhon go Lotto and suck, and players like Arenas go second round and are top 10 scorers by the time they reach 21!


Duhon would have been a lottery pick last year only if there were 53 teams in the NBA (provided the playoffs were still 16 teams). The ignoranceof this statement here makes me completely ignore any other points you tried to have.


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## Middy

http://www.sportsline.com/collegebasketball/story/8135099

Greg Doyel is a moron, but that article is hard to argue with.


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## jokeaward

David Noel doesn't take many, but he's 6'6" and is shooting .611 and .455 from 3!

Stoudamire is interesting... I can't really pick him or Redick.


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## MasterMind

McNamara for Syracuse and Reddick are some of the best IMO. They are especially great from long range and these two will be good 6th men in the NBA.


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## azswami

Sportsline's Greg Doyle;

>>> Debate rages every year about the identity of the best pure shooter in college basketball, but this year the debate should center on No. 2. Who's No. 1? Check the shooting percentages. Watch the film. Get a load of Stoudamire as he faces box-and-ones and double-teams and all kinds of defenses designed to stop him.<<<

http://www.sportsline.com/collegebasketball/story/8135099

It's too bad the heavily populated East Coast has almost never seen Salim play since they're always in bed. And if not, then they don't get Fox-AZ. People rave that Redick takes 23 and 24 footers... Salim takes 28 and 29 footers - and in the last 10 games is still shooting 64.8% from 3.

No dis on Redick, If Salim wasn't around, I would view JJ as possibly the best shooter since Stanfords Todd Lichti about a decade ago. Salim is just unreal.

Fact is, Salim was benched 11 games ago for an attitude problem. In the following 10 games, his shooting from 3 climbed from mid-30's to 56.9% Just .3% shy of the NCAA season record. 

It's like everything Dick Vitale says is gospel - it's really a no-brainer. Already a 14% underdog in 3 pt. shooting, I doubt JJ's 3-10 night helped him much.


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## Middy

> Originally posted by <b>azswami</b>!
> Sportsline's Greg Doyle;
> 
> >>> Debate rages every year about the identity of the best pure shooter in college basketball, but this year the debate should center on No. 2. Who's No. 1? Check the shooting percentages. Watch the film. Get a load of Stoudamire as he faces box-and-ones and double-teams and all kinds of defenses designed to stop him.<<<
> 
> http://www.sportsline.com/collegebasketball/story/8135099
> 
> It's too bad the heavily populated East Coast has almost never seen Salim play since they're always in bed. And if not, then they don't get Fox-AZ. People rave that Redick takes 23 and 24 footers... Salim takes 28 and 29 footers - and in the last 10 games is still shooting 64.8% from 3.
> 
> No dis on Redick, If Salim wasn't around, I would view JJ as possibly the best shooter since Stanfords Todd Lichti about a decade ago. Salim is just unreal.
> 
> Fact is, Salim was benched 11 games ago for an attitude problem. In the following 10 games, his shooting from 3 climbed from mid-30's to 56.9% Just .3% shy of the NCAA season record.
> 
> It's like everything Dick Vitale says is gospel - it's really a no-brainer. Already a 14% underdog in 3 pt. shooting, I doubt JJ's 3-10 night helped him much.


beat ya to it mtzwami. look north.


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## azswami

> Originally posted by <b>Middy</b>!
> 
> 
> beat ya to it mtzwami. look north.


Yeah, I know. I was just trying to make some of these guys to actually read at least one paragraph. It's obvious most of the people voting didn't bother to read anything.


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## Trailbeaver

Can someone please explain to me how someone shooting 43% from the field (JJ) can be desribed as the best shooter in the country? 

His 42% on 3's is nice, but when you stack it next to Salim's 53%from the field and 57% from deep I don't see the comparison.

Over the last 3 years here are each of their 3 point%'s

Redick- 02--39.5%, 03--39.5%, 04--42.1%
Salim - 02--44.4%, 03--41.5%, 04--56.9%

And their fg%

Redick- 02--40.7%, 03--42.3, 04--43.1%
Salim - 02--47.3%, 03--45.2, 04--53.3%

I don't really care for either player but the numbers drastically favor Salim


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## TM

This sounds stupid, and is totally unrational... but numbers are stupid sometimes.  Who would you be more afraid of - JJ or Salim? I dunno, maybe you'd pick Salim, but I have to go with JJ.


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## HeinzGuderian

> Originally posted by <b>Trailbeaver</b>!
> Can someone please explain to me how someone shooting 43% from the field (JJ) can be desribed as the best shooter in the country?


Because its the only thing he can do, so it's all defenders have to worry about. I don't think he's the best shooter in the country, but something along those lines of the defenses he has to face will be the response you get from people who do think he's the best.


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## azswami

> Originally posted by <b>TonyM</b>!
> This sounds stupid, and is totally unrational... but numbers are stupid sometimes.  Who would you be more afraid of - JJ or Salim? I dunno, maybe you'd pick Salim, but I have to go with JJ.


No doubt both can put the ball in the hole at long range in bunches enough to scare the hell out of opponents, but Salim is just sick. JJ seems to have a few too many off nights. I don't know how many times he's went 7-7 from 3 in a half, but I've now seen Salim do it twice. 

Redick is like that guy that comes along once every 5-8 years that is so much better than everyone else, except that he happens to coincide with that once every 20-30 year guy. 

It's like Jan Ulrich vs. Lance Armstrong in cycling. No telling how many Tours Ulrich could have won had Lance not been such an indomitable force.

Both players would make me flinch left wide open at 23 or 24 feet. But as UCLA's Aaron Afflalo put it;

"He was 30 feet out, I didn't want to foul and he had went around me a couple times already, so I backed off a half step. I never thought he would just pop it in from the volleyball line, or whatever."


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## TM

> Originally posted by <b>azswami</b>!
> JJ seems to have a few too many off nights. I don't know how many times he's went 7-7 from 3 in a half, but I've now seen Salim do it twice.


No, it's just his critics like to magnifiy the games he is off... Are we talking shooter, or 3pt shooter. JJ flat out stinks from behind the arc some nights, but he gets it done other ways - shooting FT's/jump shots... Eh, maybe I'm just magnifying the games when he's on.  ... Salim's a great shooter. I'd take him over any other 3pt shooter not names JJ.


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## HeinzGuderian

> Originally posted by <b>azswami</b>!
> Redick is like that guy that comes along once every 5-8 years that is so much better than everyone else, except that he happens to coincide with that once every 20-30 year guy.


I hope you make some sort of serious typing error when you refered to Redick as a once in a 5-8 year strech player and Stoudamire as a once in every 20-30 year type of player :laugh:


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## kamego

> Originally posted by <b>FGators</b>!
> I'll say Travis Diener. The kid doesn't get the wide open looks JJ Redick gets. And I think Reddick is a better shooter than Stoudamire. St Joes Pat Carroll is an underrated pick.


Travis Diener isn't even a better shooter then Drake Diener.


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## TucsonClip

> Originally posted by <b>HeinzGuderian</b>!
> 
> I hope you make some sort of serious typing error when you refered to Redick as a once in a 5-8 year strech player and Stoudamire as a once in every 20-30 year type of player :laugh:


I think what he is trying to say is about the records. Arizona is one of the best guard schools in the nation and the only person we have ever had who could shoot like Salim was Steve Kerr. It just so happens that Kerr holds the single season 3pt % record. If Salim keeps this pace he will surpass Kerr's record which is around 16 years old. 

I took his statement in terms of NCAA records not overall performance.


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## Priest

Isnt this a thread about the best SHOOTER not 3 point shooter??????????????


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## thrillhouse

I wanna give some props to Kelvin Torbert. I know he is not on the level of the reddicks and stoudamires of the world, but he has come a long way. His shot was terrible in his first two years, but he has really worked on and in the last two years has lead the big ten in 3pt fg%, and has become a great shooter


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## MainEvent

gerry mcnamara and jj reddick are my choices


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## budd1e_lee

not even a mention on Brendan Plavic in this thread?!?!!? none of you actually watch anyone play other than your own teams do you....


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## azswami

# of games shooting 10 or more threes: Redick 10, Salim 1
# of games shooting 20 or more shots from the floor: Redick 3, Salim 0
# of games shooting 15 or more shots from the floor: Redick 11, Salim 5


Of those games where they've shot 15 or more times, Redick has shot above 50% twice (2/11), while Salim was over 50% 3 times(3/5), and once at 47%.

Redick has actually taken 10 or more 3pt attempts in each of the last 7 games, going for slightly less than 46%. No doubt Duke needs that production desperately, and you can live with a 46% average.

But that sure isn't 55%. How can anyone make a case for Redick over Salim? And Redick's season average is less than 43%.

Then you throw in the floor shooting %, with Redick at 43% and Salim at 52%.


I just don't see where the argument is. It's not like Salim is padding his stats in blowout wins. Many of his shots are critical ones to stop an opponent's run or to fuel an AZ run. They both draw the best perimeter defenders every game, and still Salim is 10% better.

The only case you can make for Redick is that his 3 pt % numbers this year as a Junior are marginally better than Salim's % from last season. But that's the ONLY instance in a year by year analysis of shooting numbers that Redick has outshot Salim.

Most of you guys either go to bed way too early, or don't get the Fox package.


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## zagsfan20

Derek Raivio

Just watch him play.....


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## Jonathan Watters

Ravio is absolutely not the best shooter in college basketball...


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## zagsfan20

Watch him play and then talk......

He is only a sophmore and when open is 98% accurate.....


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## TucsonClip

> Originally posted by <b>zagsfan20</b>!
> Watch him play and then talk......
> 
> He is only a sophmore and when open is 98% accurate.....


I would love for you to be able to prove that... If any of the shooters listed in this thread had open shots all the time im sure they would all be shooting above 50%.


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## TM

> Originally posted by <b>zagsfan20</b>!when open is 98% accurate.....


:laugh:

Cuase that happens so much during the span of a game.


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## Jonathan Watters

> Originally posted by <b>zagsfan20</b>!
> Watch him play and then talk......
> 
> He is only a sophmore and when open is 98% accurate.....


I've watched every nationally televised game the Zags have played this year. I know this is going to sound ridiculous, but maybe you should watch a non-Gonzaga game.


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## Jonathan Watters

My top five shooters in college basketball, in no particular order

Pat Carroll, Saint Joes
Salim Stoudamire, Arizona
Lawrence McKenzie, Oklahoma
Tre Simmons, Washington
JJ Reddick, Duke

IMO, Adam Morrison is every bit the shooter that Derek Ravio is...


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## zagsfan20

> I've watched every nationally televised game the Zags have played this year. I know this is going to sound ridiculous, but maybe you should watch a non-Gonzaga game.


Do you not pay any attention to Raivio? The kid is hitting 3's at nearly 50% . I watch plenty of college basketball are you kidding me....I have more knowledge of college basketball in my left pinky then you have in your brain......




> IMO, Adam Morrison is every bit the shooter that Derek Ravio is...


Morrison is a great shooter, but very streaky and is better with a man in his face then left wide open......


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## The Truth

> Originally posted by <b>zagsfan20</b>!
> 
> I watch plenty of college basketball are you kidding me....I have more knowledge of college basketball in my left pinky then you have in your brain......


And exactly how are you so sure of this? Typically when someone makes a statment like this it means they don't have a clue.

In the words of the very wise Kip Dynamite
"Like there's anyway of even knowing that."


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## budd1e_lee

zagsfan, are you sure youre not Derek's little brother? or maybe just one of his groupies, get out of the hell hole that is Vancouver and broaden some horizons


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## Middy

how is he the best shooter when he isnt even top 3 statistically?

take off your homer glasses and see this situation for what it is. Any Zags fans willing to defend your arguments? I dont see any yet.


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## zagsfan20

> And exactly how are you so sure of this? Typically when someone makes a statment like this it means they don't have a clue.


You wanna battle in some trivia.....I'll show you who's boss....


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## zagsfan20

> zagsfan, are you sure youre not Derek's little brother? or maybe just one of his groupies, get out of the hell hole that is Vancouver and broaden some horizons


Not but I am a family friend, and BTW i have only lived in Vancouver for 3 years, I'm from Portland....You will see in the next couple of years that Raivio is the best shooter in college ball....and then you will come back to me trying to apologize.....

You need broaden your horizons to the WCC and watch a couple of games.....


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## budd1e_lee

> Originally posted by <b>zagsfan20</b>!
> 
> 
> Not but I am a family friend, and BTW i have only lived in Vancouver for 3 years, I'm from Portland....You will see in the next couple of years that Raivio is the best shooter in college ball....and then you will come back to me trying to apologize.....
> 
> You need broaden your horizons to the WCC and watch a couple of games.....


I lived in Vancouver for 15 years, played soccer with Derek back in the day and watched him throughout high school. In no way am I discrediting his game, but to call him THE best shooter in the country is absolutely ludicrous. And to assume that Ive not watched WCC is ignorant, think before you speak and understand your audience.


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## zagsfan20

How do you go about understanding my audience.....I have read some of your stuff in other forums and its pretty blatant that you dislike Raivio because you think he is stuck up......


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## Jonathan Watters

Better whip out that left pinky, Zagsfan - if you have so much basketball knowledge, please feel free to show it. Please tell me why you think Ravio is a better shooter than Carroll, Reddick, Simmons, Stoudamire, or McKenzie. Tell me which games you've watched of them, and how Ravio is better. A valid answer includes justification for why Ravio gets so many open looks because of the teammates he has (He hasn't faced a double team all year). 

Oh yeah, one more thing. I'm sure it's just a coincidence that Ravio plays on your favorite team and you are a family friend, and that you also think he's the best shooter in the nation. And not that you are a complete homer. I'm also sure that the reason nobody has come on this thread to back you up is because there is a national conspiracy to cover up the glow of Derek Ravio's greatness...

And no more garbage about how people don't watch Gonzaga. They've been on national TV more times than most major conference schools. That's the biggest coverup for a lack of a real argument that I've heard in quite a while.


----------



## budd1e_lee

> Originally posted by <b>zagsfan20</b>!
> How do you go about understanding my audience.....I have read some of your stuff in other forums and its pretty blatant that you dislike Raivio because you think he is stuck up......


Like Ive said before, I dont like him as a person, but I think he is a damn good basketball player. Did you even read my last post? He is a good player, but NOT the best shooter in the country.


----------



## zagsfan20

He isnt quite the best shooter in the nation but he is the best 3 point shooter......

Look at what he has done against some of the good competition......

vs. Washington 6-10 Fg, 5-6 3pt, 21 pts.

vs. Georgia Tech 7-11 Fg, 3-6 3pt., 21pts.

vs. Santa Clara 8-11 Fg, 6-9 3pt., 32 pts.

This is a sophomore folks, on a team where he is the 3rd or 4th option....Wait in a couple of years when he adds a little bulk and becomes the #1 option.....

The best competition that Pat Carroll has faced was Villanova and he scored 16 pts......when St. Joes lost to San Francisco (A WCC school) Carroll was held to 13 pts. on 5-14 shooting....

Redick's FG% is 46% and is shooting 3's at 42%, and he is the main option on offense for Duke.....

McKenzie shouldnt even be in this conversation.....

Salim and Derek is a good comparison...but Salim is a senior and Derek is a sophomore.....


----------



## HeinzGuderian

Forget shooters, Raivio is probably the best player in the nation. Honestly I think he is the hands-down favorite for national player of the year, followed closely by Turiaf and Morrison with Simeon, Warrick, and McCants eating their dust. Actually the entire Gonzaga team should just get co-player of the year, they deserve it. We have a dynasty in the making.


----------



## The Truth

> Originally posted by <b>zagsfan20</b>!
> He isnt quite the best shooter in the nation but he is the best 3 point shooter......
> 
> Look at what he has done against some of the good competition......
> 
> vs. Washington 6-10 Fg, 5-6 3pt, 21 pts.
> 
> vs. Georgia Tech 7-11 Fg, 3-6 3pt., 21pts.
> 
> vs. Santa Clara 8-11 Fg, 6-9 3pt., 32 pts.
> 
> This is a sophomore folks, on a team where he is the 3rd or 4th option....Wait in a couple of years when he adds a little bulk and becomes the #1 option.....
> 
> The best competition that Pat Carroll has faced was Villanova and he scored 16 pts......when St. Joes lost to San Francisco (A WCC school) Carroll was held to 13 pts. on 5-14 shooting....
> 
> Redick's FG% is 46% and is shooting 3's at 42%, and he is the main option on offense for Duke.....
> 
> McKenzie shouldnt even be in this conversation.....
> 
> Salim and Derek is a good comparison...but Salim is a senior and Derek is a sophomore.....


How can you argue that?


----------



## zagsfan20

Finally you guys are getting it!


----------



## zagsfan20

> Forget shooters, Raivio is probably the best player in the nation. Honestly I think he is the hands-down favorite for national player of the year, followed closely by Turiaf and Morrison with Simeon, Warrick, and McCants eating their dust. Actually the entire Gonzaga team should just get co-player of the year, they deserve it. We have a dynasty in the making.


This isnt about the best player in the nation, its about the best shooter in the nation.....


----------



## The Truth

Zagsfan,

You aren't reincarnated from Adam on the old nbadraft.net board, are you?


----------



## Middy

lets do a little comparison:

Stoudamire's stats-

52.3% on FG's (123/235)

54.4% on 3's (68/125)

90.7% on FT's (68/75)

Raivio's-

47.5% on FG's (68/143)

50.5% on 3's (46/91)

88% on FT's (61/69)

You say Stoudamire is a good comparison for Raivio, but Raivio gets beat in every category. Derek shoots a stellar 50.5% from 3 land, but Stoudamire has made 22 more threes while shooting four percent better. How is Raivio better? Clearly he is not the best of any three of these categories, even though you proclaimed him to be the best 3 point shooter in the country.

what do you say now, zagshomer20?

the only reason you give as to why Raivio is better than Stoudamire is that Salim is a senior. Well, that may be true but does Raivio get defenses designed specifically to stop him? As the #1 option, opposing defenses focus in on tryin gto stop Stoudamire more than any other player on the court. Raivio can't even post better numbers when he is the THIRD option.

But I bet you still think Raivio is the better shooter. mmmmm'kay.


----------



## zagsfan20

> the only reason you give as to why Raivio is better than Stoudamire is that Salim is a senior. Well, that may be true but does Raivio get defenses designed specifically to stop him? As the #1 option, opposing defenses focus in on tryin gto stop Stoudamire more than any other player on the court. Raivio can't even post better numbers when he is the THIRD option.


Raivio doesnt have defenses designed especially for him because he is a sophomore that very little of the nation knows about, when Salim was a sophomore he didnt have defenses designed to stop him.....While Raivio is a deadly shooter his main job is to distribute the ball to his bigs, which he does a dang good job at.....Raivio still has a lot of his game and body to mature still, but as of right now Derek is better as a sophomore, than Salim was during his sophomore year....


----------



## azswami

Salim 


He's certainly got the respect of the UCLA freshmen.

By Diane Pucin, Times Staff Writer

It's not easy to play defense against a guy who will shoot from anywhere — two feet from the basket or 32 feet — and make it. It's not easy to coach that guy. It's not easy being that guy.

But finally, only weeks from the end of his rocky career as an Arizona basketball player, Salim Stoudamire is making basketball easy. For himself, for Coach Lute Olson and for his teammates.

As Arizona makes its annual Pacific 10 Conference trip to Southern California this weekend with games against USC tonight in the Sports Arena and at UCLA on Saturday, the 12th-ranked Wildcats seem to be hitting their stride at the same time Stoudamire is. And that's no coincidence.

After being benched for a national-television game against Marquette in January, after overcorrecting himself in reaction to Olson's criticisms, Stoudamire has become the most dangerous player in the Pac-10 over the last month.

The 6-foot-1 guard leads the conference in three-point shooting. Stoudamire has made 68 of 125 three-point shots. That's 54.4%, and he has the second-most tries in the conference. (USC's Lodrick Stewart has taken 140 and made 60.)

Against UCLA last month, Stoudamire scored 32 points — 24 in the second half — and made a 26-foot three-pointer in the face of freshman Arron Afflalo to win the game at the buzzer, 76-73.

"He's so hard to guard," Afflalo said this week, "because he's not your textbook player. He will shoot from anywhere. You can't get a form on him. Like most guys you can watch film and say, 'He'll take two dribbles to the right and shoot.' But that's not Salim."

Added UCLA point guard Jordan Farmar: "His release is so quick, and he's got no limitations. He'll pop up and just shoot it from anywhere. And make it."

Besides the 32 points against UCLA, Stoudamire scored 27 against Oregon, 25 each against Oregon State and Washington, and 26 against Stanford. Those were all Arizona victories.

...All this, and the guy hasn't attempted more than 15 shots in a game, not even once this season.


----------



## Middy

> Originally posted by <b>zagsfan20</b>!
> 
> 
> Raivio doesnt have defenses designed especially for him because he is a sophomore that very little of the nation knows about, when Salim was a sophomore he didnt have defenses designed to stop him.....While Raivio is a deadly shooter his main job is to distribute the ball to his bigs, which he does a dang good job at.....Raivio still has a lot of his game and body to mature still, but as of right now Derek is better as a sophomore, than Salim was during his sophomore year....


Sorry, I forgot that this discussion is about the best shooter in 2 years from now...

keep making up excuses, this is funny :laugh:


----------



## Jonathan Watters

> Originally posted by <b>zagsfan20</b>!
> He isnt quite the best shooter in the nation but he is the best 3 point shooter......
> 
> Look at what he has done against some of the good competition......
> 
> vs. Washington 6-10 Fg, 5-6 3pt, 21 pts.
> 
> vs. Georgia Tech 7-11 Fg, 3-6 3pt., 21pts.
> 
> vs. Santa Clara 8-11 Fg, 6-9 3pt., 32 pts.
> 
> This is a sophomore folks, on a team where he is the 3rd or 4th option....Wait in a couple of years when he adds a little bulk and becomes the #1 option.....


The fact that he's not the #1 option dramatically helps his percentages. The fact that you don't realize doesn't help your credibility when promoting how much you know about hoops. 



> The best competition that Pat Carroll has faced was Villanova and he scored 16 pts......when St. Joes lost to San Francisco (A WCC school) Carroll was held to 13 pts. on 5-14 shooting....


The Hawks play a slow-it-down style, and therefore score fewer points in a game. Carroll has no help on the offensive end, which only makes him look better. His 3-point numbers are still just as good as Ravio's. 



> Redick's FG% is 46% and is shooting 3's at 42%, and he is the main option on offense for Duke.....


Which makes it TOUGHER for him to get good looks. Have you ever watched Duke play this year? Are you willing to consider that Reddick might take exponentially tougher shots than Ravio does? 



> McKenzie shouldnt even be in this conversation.....


Why not? His numbers are very comparable to Ravio's, and his team scores much less than Gonzaga's. And again, McKenzie is a guy that takes high-degree-of-difficulty shots nearly every time. 



> Salim and Derek is a good comparison...but Salim is a senior and Derek is a sophomore.....


So Derek is a better shooter because he is younger...


----------



## TucsonClip

> Originally posted by <b>zagsfan20</b>!
> 
> 
> Raivio doesnt have defenses designed especially for him because he is a sophomore that very little of the nation knows about, when Salim was a sophomore he didnt have defenses designed to stop him.....While Raivio is a deadly shooter his main job is to distribute the ball to his bigs, which he does a dang good job at.....Raivio still has a lot of his game and body to mature still, but as of right now Derek is better as a sophomore, than Salim was during his sophomore year....


Salim led Arizona from down 20 in the 1st half to a 20 point blowout at Kansas his sophmore year. From that day forward teams have been trying to stop Salim, Kansas could not stop Salim from running off screens, pull up 3pts, and driving to the hole. Lute also went on record numerous times to say Salim was the teams best defender that season.

Oh yeah and to all you Redick fans, Salim has shot a better FG and 3pt percentage every year. Cram that one up your cramhole Dookie V... :yes:


----------



## Middy

> Originally posted by <b>zagsfan20</b>!
> 
> 
> Raivio doesnt have defenses designed especially for him because he is a sophomore that very little of the nation knows about, when Salim was a sophomore he didnt have defenses designed to stop him.....While Raivio is a deadly shooter his main job is to distribute the ball to his bigs, which he does a dang good job at.....Raivio still has a lot of his game and body to mature still, but as of right now Derek is better as a sophomore, than Salim was during his sophomore year....


well, have your opinion.

But I think I remember a sophomore Stoudamire hanging 20+ on a certain team in the tournament two years ago. Can you guess who that was, zagsfan20? mmmhmmm.

your homerism makes me hate gonzaga.


----------



## zagsfan20

> your homerism makes me hate gonzaga.


Raivio > Shakur 

And thats for dang sure!


----------



## zagsfan20

I'm watching the Pepperdine/Gonzaga game on ESPN2 right now and Jimmy ***** said that Raivio is just as good of a shooter as J.J. Redick, Salim Stoudamire or Gerry McNamara........I guess i'm not the only one who thinks that Raivio is best in the nation......


----------



## Ghost

> Originally posted by <b>zagsfan20</b>!
> I'm watching the Pepperdine/Gonzaga game on ESPN2 right now and Jimmy ***** said that Raivio is just as good of a shooter as J.J. Redick, Salim Stoudamire or Gerry McNamara........I guess i'm not the only one who thinks that Raivio is best in the nation......


I am a die hard Zags fan like yourself. But I would take Salim Stoudamire and Shakur both over Ravio, I like Ravio a lot and he has helped the team a lot, but IMO both players are better than Ravio and both will be in the future, espically Shakur. and by the way Salim Stoudamire is 5-7 from # land tonight agenst USC.


----------



## Middy

> Originally posted by <b>zagsfan20</b>!
> 
> 
> Raivio > Shakur
> 
> And thats for dang sure!


Is that all you got? You have completely exhausted your ludicrous opinion and now you make arbitrary comparisons about players that have nothing to do with this thread? Maybe mommy should tuck you in early tonight. :worship: 

and by the way, Stoudamire shoots over 70% from 3-land tonight. 5-7, and 9-14 from the field. 

but Raivio's better, right? :sour: keep dreamin.


----------



## Middy

> Originally posted by <b>zagsfan20</b>!
> I'm watching the Pepperdine/Gonzaga game on ESPN2 right now and Jimmy ***** said that Raivio is just as good of a shooter as J.J. Redick, Salim Stoudamire or Gerry McNamara........I guess i'm not the only one who thinks that Raivio is best in the nation......


think before you type. ***** said that Raivio was just as good, not better, as you say.

And Dukie Vitale is constantly loving on Duke. Doesn't make them the greatest team in the world. Reddick ain't the best shooter ever as commentators were saying in the Duke-Wake Forest game.

I say Cap'n Crunch is the best cereal, but the funny thing is, that doesn't make it true. Now if you'd base your argument on some sort of statistic/fact, you might have some ground to argue. But youre not going to do that, are you?


----------



## azswami

On tonights Sportcenter highlights tonight, they asked the question "who's the best shooter in the nation, JJ or Salim". Then "just watch", and proceded to show Salim raining 3's saying "stop it" after every one.

From the newswire;

Stoudamire outscored USC 11-0 by himself in a span of 80 seconds to make it 27-12..


----------



## Geaux Tigers

> Originally posted by <b>zagsfan20</b>!
> I'm watching the Pepperdine/Gonzaga game on ESPN2 right now and Jimmy ***** said that Raivio is just as good of a shooter as J.J. Redick, Salim Stoudamire or Gerry McNamara........I guess i'm not the only one who thinks that Raivio is best in the nation......


***** is THE most biased announcer even more so than Dickie V.

He is the same guy that said if you compare each player on Gonzaga and UNC by position that they were equals.

Felton = Raivio!
McCants = Morrison!

CMON!!!


----------



## zagsfan20

Is Salim still a cerial vending machine clepto?????


----------



## Ghost

> Originally posted by <b>Jsimo12</b>!
> 
> 
> ***** is THE most biased announcer even more so than Dickie V.
> 
> He is the same guy that said if you compare each player on Gonzaga and UNC by position that they were equals.
> 
> Felton = Raivio!
> McCants = Morrison!
> 
> CMON!!!


I heard that and At first I was like he didn't just say Ravio is as good as Felton did he, But he did. There is nothing you can say that would make me think Ravio is as good as Felton, He said the way Mccants is playing Morrison is just as good as him.


----------



## zagsfan20

Raivio is a top point guard in the nation.....All the haters and doubters out there need to live with it....The announcers for tonights game said that Jerry West and Pat Riley were their to see Raivio play just as much as any of the other guys.....


----------



## Geaux Tigers

> Originally posted by <b>zagsfan20</b>!
> Raivio is a top point guard in the nation.....All the haters and doubters out there need to live with it....The announcers for tonights game said that Jerry West and Pat Riley were their to see Raivio play just as much as any of the other guys.....


Sure they were. Raivio is a prospect for the future...he isnt the best shooter in the game. I think you got best and favorite confused.

Its Redick or Stoudemire IMO.


----------



## azswami

From Draftcity.com;



> Salim Stoudamire, G, Zona
> 
> Salim Stoudamire continues to make ESPN look more and more ridiculous everytime the question "Who is the #1 shooter in the NCAA?" comes up. The automatic answer from Vitale, Bilas and their sidekicks is always automatic "J.J. Redick or Gerry McNamara," who are shooting 42% and 35% respectively from behind the arc, way behind the headband-sporting Stoudamire, who is at an unbelievable 54% for the year on a comparable amount of attempts.
> 
> Stoudamire most likely shot himself in the foot with NBA scouts numerous times with his attitude on the court, benching and suspensions over his four years at Point Guard U (whose magic to produce phenomonal point guards didn't rub off on Salim in the least bit). But he is definitely giving scouts a lot to think about with the way he has been shooting so far this season. Stoudamire had 26 points on 5-9 shooting from behind the arc this weekend at Stanford, to go along with 4 assists and 2 turnovers. Not his best game this year, but more than enough to get some well-earned recognition in this space as the #1 shooter in the country. His playmaking skills and ballhandling won't have anyone confuse him for a point, but if he can lead his team deep into the tournament in his senior season, he's got a decent shot at getting drafted and making a team based solely off his phenomonal shooting ability.


ESPN IS a tool. They televise ZERO Pac-10 games, (Fox carries them) and as a result hype the ACC and Big East, as well as the Big Ten when advantageous.

But slowly the rest of the media qorld is catching on!

http://draftcity.com/viewarticle.php?a=97


----------



## JuniorNoboa

> Originally posted by <b>azswami</b>!
> From Draftcity.com;
> 
> 
> 
> ESPN IS a tool. They televise ZERO Pac-10 games, (Fox carries them) and as a result hype the ACC and Big East, as well as the Big Ten when advantageous.
> 
> But slowly the rest of the media qorld is catching on!
> 
> http://draftcity.com/viewarticle.php?a=97


I love this - the PAC-10 has been clearly inferior to the Big East and the ACC since 2001. Yet hyping up the the Eastern conferences which are better, is a bias. Shaddup west coast whiners.


Admittedly some players might get less exposure, but there teams get the right respect in the rankings.


----------



## Geaux Tigers

> Originally posted by <b>azswami</b>!
> From Draftcity.com;
> 
> 
> 
> ESPN IS a tool. They televise ZERO Pac-10 games, (Fox carries them) and as a result hype the ACC and Big East, as well as the Big Ten when advantageous.
> 
> But slowly the rest of the media qorld is catching on!
> 
> http://draftcity.com/viewarticle.php?a=97


I understand what your saying but, ESPN doesnt create which team the public wants to see. The ratings dictate what teams the public will see and the ratings are decided by...the public. ESPN, once they realize that the majority of the nation wants Duke, UNC, Wake, Kansas, Syracuse, and Kentucky puts them on tv every chance they get which creates more hype. Its not a conspiracy agains the PAC-10 and WCC and those conferences. 

Also you have to take into account time zone. Why would ESPN headline an Arizona vs UCLA game that takes place at midnight on the east coast and 11:00pm CT when everyone is asleep.

People have such hatred for ESPN because they dont show their favorite teams, but ESPN is a business not a charitable organization that is trying to show you your favorite team.


----------



## Middy

> Originally posted by <b>zagsfan20</b>!
> Is Salim still a cerial vending machine clepto?????


wow, you're really clever. Salim wan't even involved in that fiasco, but being the ever-knowledgeable homer, er fan, that you are you already knew that huh?

He is still the top 3 point shooter in the country. 55%. RESPECK!!


----------



## Middy

> Originally posted by <b>zagsfan20</b>!
> I'm watching the Pepperdine/Gonzaga game on ESPN2 right now and Jimmy ***** said that Raivio is just as good of a shooter as J.J. Redick, Salim Stoudamire or Gerry McNamara........I guess i'm not the only one who thinks that Raivio is best in the nation......


have you heard of Ferrous Cranus before?



> Ferrous Cranus is utterly impervious to reason, persuasion and new ideas, and when engaged in battle he will not yield an inch in his position regardless of its hopelessness. Though his thrusts are decisively repulsed, his arguments crushed in every detail and his defenses demolished beyond repair he will remount the same attack again and again with only the slightest variation in tactics. Sometimes out of pure frustration Philosopher will try to explain to him the failed logistics of his situation, or Therapist will attempt to penetrate the psychological origins of his obduracy, but, ever unfathomable, Ferrous Cranus cannot be moved.


----------



## zagsfan20

I think that Jimmy ***** being a former college basketball player himself knows more about whether Raivio is one of the best shooters in the nation, then some nerd on an internet message board.....

Is it going to have to take Raivio lighting up Arizona in the NCAA tournament to make you realize??


----------



## The Truth

> Originally posted by <b>zagsfan20</b>!
> I think that Jimmy ***** being a former college basketball player himself knows more about whether Raivio is one of the best shooters in the nation, then some nerd on an internet message board.....
> 
> Is it going to have to take Raivio lighting up Arizona in the NCAA tournament to make you realize??


Are you referring to yourself as a nerd?

Jimmy ***** is a blowhard.


----------



## Jonathan Watters

> Originally posted by <b>Ghost</b>!
> 
> 
> I heard that and At first I was like he didn't just say Ravio is as good as Felton did he, But he did. There is nothing you can say that would make me think Ravio is as good as Felton, He said the way Mccants is playing Morrison is just as good as him.


After having watched both players extensively, there is little doubt in my mind that Morrison IS better than McCants. I actually think it's pretty cut and dry. McCants can be stopped by tough, physical defense. When Morrison is hitting his dribble-drive jumpers, forget about it. As for Ravio and Felton, everybody knows Felton is the better player...


----------



## zagsfan20

Felton and Raivio are different kinds of players......

Raivio is definitely the better shooter......


----------



## Ghost

> Originally posted by <b>zagsfan20</b>!
> Felton and Raivio are different kinds of players......
> 
> Raivio is definitely the better shooter......


ok then

Felton is the better Ball Handler
Felton is the better Creator
Felton is the better Passer
Felton is the better Defender


----------



## zagsfan20

Raivio is the better ball handler....
Felton is the better creator......
They are equal at passing.....
Felton is the better defender......


----------



## JuniorNoboa

Raivio also has the better wang.


----------



## zagsfan20

how do you know?


----------



## JuniorNoboa

> Originally posted by <b>zagsfan20</b>!
> how do you know?


Jimmy ***** told me so, and Jimmy is never wrong.


----------



## Middy

> Originally posted by <b>JuniorNoboa</b>!
> 
> 
> Jimmy ***** told me so, and Jimmy is never wrong.


:laugh:  

if you want quotes zagsfan20, here you go:



> "Stoudamire just hit some amazing shots out there," said USC interim coach Jim Saia. "I think he's the greatest college basketball shooter percentagewise that I've ever seen. Any time he's open, he can put it up. We probably just witnessed one of the greatest college shooters of all time. I don't think anyone shoots 54 percent from three-point range. He's a phenomenal player."





> Oregon Head Coach Ernie Kent: "You're not going to shut down a Salim Stoudamire or a (Channing) Frye or Hassan Adams. Salim had close to 40 on us last year and that just can't happen. If he gets near that many this time it's going to be a long night for us.
> 
> "Ever since he came back from the suspension he has just been, to me, *the best shooter in the country* when you look at his numbers and what he has done. He has an incredible ability to take over a game and dominate a game in a lot of different ways in terms of scoring. We definitely have to limit his touches. We're not going to do anything he hasn't seen before but we have to limit his touches because if he gets 15, 16, 17 shots it's going to be a long night for us. You have to find him early in transition and get someone on him because he can make shots from well beyond the NBA three-point line."





> "He is the best shooter in the country, hands down," Arizona coach Lute Olson said. "They talk about the guy at Duke (J.J. Redick), but I will put Salim up against him anytime."


Im willing to bet Hall of Fame coach Lute Olson knows a little more about the game than Jimmy *****. He has no interest in saying this either, all it does is attract attention to his primary offensive weapon. It just had to be said.


----------



## The Truth

> Originally posted by <b>zagsfan20</b>!
> Raivio is the better ball handler....
> Felton is the better creator......
> They are equal at passing.....
> Felton is the better defender......


:rotf: :mrt: :rotf:


----------



## TucsonClip

http://www.dailystar.com/dailystar/sports/61144.php



> But after Stoudamire hit 5 of 7 three-pointers against USC, UA sports information director Richard Paige fueled a rebuttal from Olson by crunching a few numbers about the percentage edge that Stoudamire has over Redick.
> 
> Redick entered today's Duke-Maryland game hitting 43 percent of his three-pointers and 42 percent of his field goals. Stoudamire has made 55.3 percent from three-point range and 53.0 overall.
> 
> Unprompted, Olson began his informal media gathering Friday with this statement:
> 
> "There's a bit of information that Rich shared with me about Redick being the greatest shooter in the country,'' Olson said. "If he hit 71 consecutive field goals, he'd reach Salim's field goal percentage shooting. If Redick made 53 consecutive three-pointers, he'd tie Salim for three-point field goal percentage.
> 
> "How in the world can somebody continue to go on TV and say Redick is the greatest shooter in the country?''


Thanks for the quote Lute...


----------



## azswami

Beat me to it...



> "There's a bit of information that Rich shared with me about Redick being the greatest shooter in the country,'' Olson said. "If he hit 71 consecutive field goals, he'd reach Salim's field goal percentage shooting. If Redick made 53 consecutive three-pointers, he'd tie Salim for three-point field goal percentage.


"How in the world can somebody continue to go on TV and say Redick is the greatest shooter in the country?'' 

Startling numerical difference. 

Consider that Salim is still shooting around 63% from 3 over the last 14 or 15 games. And the guy will shoot from 28 or 29 feet.

The only reason why Stoudamire vs. Redick is still a debate is because in spite of all the facts being against them, ESPN's most prominent on-air college basketball personalities cannot admit to bias or ignorance and will not abandon hype of the network's biggest brand name, Duke.

Anyone else with a thimble for a brain has conceded the title of Best Shooter in America to Salim Stoudamire some time ago.


----------



## zagsfan20

You dont think Lute is bias towards Salim????


----------



## azswami

> Originally posted by <b>zagsfan20</b>!
> You dont think Lute is bias towards Salim????


You don't think YOU are biased towards Raivio???

IT"S NOT ABOUT LUTE, BUT ABOUT ABILITY!!!

Numbers don't lie, YOU do!

There have been 2 or 3 quotes supporting JJ on this forum, 15 or so supporting Salim, and 1 supporting Raivio.

Think about it for a sec.

Or think about what the % symbol actially means???

Raivio may be the best shooter next year, he's real good. But he will get NO recognition nest year as long as Redick is in a Duke UNI. This year belongs to Salim. And it isn't close.

BTW, I love Gonzaga BBall, as I now live and have lived within 1 to 2 hours away from Spokane for 21 years now. You embarrass me as much as you embarrass the othe Zag fans. 

Dude, You are so far off, that you are like a guy claiming that Harold Minor had a better NBA career than Michael Jordan. Your ARE a laughingstock on this one!


----------



## Geaux Tigers

> Originally posted by <b>Jsimo12</b>!
> Its gotta be J.J. Reddick. He is covered on every three he takes. IF by chance he is wide open on a three its because he took it in the fast break or if there was a great screen. Even the good screens dont help that much because they hedge out on him so much.


This is who I took way back on January 18th...

Ive switched like 5 times since then between Redick and Stoudemire. They are both tremendous shooters, and two of the best Ive seen. I feel they are the only ones deserving of consideration really.. 

The thing is Stoudemire has all the stats locked up over his entire career with the exception of FT%. Ive watched both players quite a bit over their careers and I feel Redick shoots with more D in his grill and in more high pressure situations. Im having a problem because I dont usually look at just stats to determine a players worth but in shooting it seems that as long as the players take a comparable number of shots then the percentages should speak for themselves. Im having trouble weighing clutchability and degree of difficulty appropriatly with consideration on stats.

I sorta feel like im supposed to decide which child to save from a burning building or something. Im at that junction in every basketball fans life where stats collide with intangibility and it's leaving nothing but a mess of confusion strewn about the landscape of my mind.:banghead:

      

Im going to take *Salim Stoudemire* as the best shooter in college basketball.


----------



## zagsfan20

It is my opinion that Raivio is one of the best shooters in the nation.....You dont have to agree with me......

Derek's numbers in his sophmore year so far have been just as good if not better than what Salim and Redick did their sophmore years....

I think that a lot of Gonzaga fans agree with me here......This isnt about best all around player.....This is about SHOOTING nothing else.....

What does Harold Minor and Jordan have to do with anything???


BTW..The person who was comparing Felton and Raivio.....Lets match stats:
Raivio:
ppg: 13.6
apg: 5.0
rpg: 2.9
Turnovers: 48
Stls: 38
3 pt% 48.7

Felton:
ppg: 11.0
apg: 7.0
rpg: 4.0
Turnovers: 84
Stls: 42
3pt% 47.0

Those are very comparable numbers....But for some reason Felton is suppose to be a lottery pick this year??? and Raivio is just an average point guard.....

An east coast bias here or what???


----------



## azswami

IF you would have taken JJ, I would have been fine with it, since you were pretty open with your reasoning, as opposed to homerism.

I admit, JJ has the best looking stroke I have seen in a long time, and he's VERY good. Salim's stroke is as good IMO, but it comes off a bit odd at times because he is a lefty, and when given a split second he can take a jump shot, shoot a fade-away, and can occasionally toss one in from near the hip if the defender looks away. 

And to think, Reggie Millers entire career at UCLA was marked with "worst shooting stroke ever" comments. Go figure.

Purest stroke? Just may belong to JJ, but noone can fill the hoop like Salim on a tear!







> Originally posted by <b>Jsimo12</b>!
> 
> 
> This is who I took way back on January 18th...
> 
> Ive switched like 5 times since then between Redick and Stoudemire. They are both tremendous shooters, and two of the best Ive seen. I feel they are the only ones deserving of consideration really..
> 
> The thing is Stoudemire has all the stats locked up over his entire career with the exception of FT%. Ive watched both players quite a bit over their careers and I feel Redick shoots with more D in his grill and in more high pressure situations. Im having a problem because I dont usually look at just stats to determine a players worth but in shooting it seems that as long as the players take a comparable number of shots then the percentages should speak for themselves. Im having trouble weighing clutchability and degree of difficulty appropriatly with consideration on stats.
> 
> I sorta feel like im supposed to decide which child to save from a burning building or something. Im at that junction in every basketball fans life where stats collide with intangibility and it's leaving nothing but a mess of confusion strewn about the landscape of my mind.:banghead:
> 
> 
> 
> Im going to take *Salim Stoudemire* as the best shooter in college basketball.


----------



## Middy

> Originally posted by <b>zagsfan20</b>!
> You dont think Lute is bias towards Salim????


Why would he make comments like "Salim is the best shooter in the country, hands down?"

All that accomplishes is drawing attention to his number one offensive threat. 

If guys on ESPN didnt keep touting Redick as the best shooter in the country every night, maybe Olson wouldnt be so frustrated.

Olson gains nothing from this comment other than giving Salim needed exposure. It's not like NBA scouts wont look at his gaudy numbers, but Olson wants the fans to realize that college basketball isnt just what you see on sportscenter.


----------



## Middy

> Originally posted by <b>zagsfan20</b>!
> It is my opinion that Raivio is one of the best shooters in the nation.....You dont have to agree with me......
> 
> Derek's numbers in his sophmore year so far have been just as good if not better than what Salim and Redick did their sophmore years....


no one is disagreeing with the first statement you made, we are disagreeing with statements like these:



> I guess i'm not the only one who thinks that Raivio is best(shooter, I assume) in the nation......





> He isnt quite the best shooter in the nation but he is the *best 3 point shooter*......


the fact that your argument keeps changing (best shooter to best 3point shooter to one of the best) doesnt help your standpoint much. The fact that you provide no statistical evidence to defend yourself hurts your assertion as well. 

The only thing you bring up is that Raivio is better than the other candidates when they were sophs. Well this is about the best shooter NOW. end of story.


----------



## zagsfan20

> If guys on ESPN didnt keep touting Redick as the best shooter in the country every night, maybe Olson wouldnt be so frustrated.


Do you really think a hall of fame coach like Lute Olson cares about how much publicity his shooting guard gets???? I dont think so. All Lute cares about is wins and losses....I'm pretty sure he doesnt watch college gameday and get all bent out of shape because Lavin and Majerus dont talk about his guy......


----------



## The Truth

> Originally posted by <b>zagsfan20</b>!
> 
> 
> Do you really think a hall of fame coach like Lute Olson cares about how much publicity his shooting guard gets???? I dont think so. All Lute cares about is wins and losses....I'm pretty sure he doesnt watch college gameday and get all bent out of shape because Lavin and Majerus dont talk about his guy......


Actually Olsen voices his opinion on the undercoverage of Arizona and the Pac-10 and the overexposure of the east coast teams (Duke specifically) quite often.


----------



## zagsfan20

> Actually Olsen voices his opinion on the undercoverage of Arizona and the Pac-10 and the overexposure of the east coast teams (Duke specifically) quite often.


Yea, about team basketball, not individual accolades....Trust me, Lute cares about National Championships not if some schmucks on TV are talking about individual efforts of his players....


----------



## TucsonClip

> Originally posted by <b>zagsfan20</b>!
> 
> 
> Yea, about team basketball, not individual accolades....Trust me, Lute cares about National Championships not if some schmucks on TV are talking about individual efforts of his players....


Lute is about as unbiased as they come, however he can not get over the fact that some people on ESPN like to hype up the eastern teams and leave out the western teams. In fact I believe in 2001 Lute mentioned Dick Vitale as "Dookie V"

We have had season tickets to Arizona basketball games since Lute came to Tucson. I have never heard him tout one of his playes over any other player in the nation. I'm sure Lute isn't trying to say hey... Salim is better then JJ. He is just trying to get on some of the analyists' case.


----------



## jalen5

> Originally posted by <b>zagsfan20</b>!
> It is my opinion that Raivio is one of the best shooters in the nation.....This is about SHOOTING nothing else.....
> 
> Those are very comparable numbers....But for some reason Felton is suppose to be a lottery pick this year??? and Raivio is just an average point guard.....
> 
> An east coast bias here or what???




The reason Felton is going to be a lottery pick is b/c the NBA is about more than shooting. Felton is without a doubt a better all around player. I'll give you the shooting part in regards to Raivio cuz he can shoot the ball, but don't take it as far as saying he's as good as Felton and should be getting the same type of NBA love. 

Also, I know there are some good players in the West Coast conference and have been some good ones come out, but the competition in the Mountain West is no where NEAR the ACC. Felton faces Chris Paul and Wake, John Gilchrist and Maryland, Jarrett Jack and Ga. Tech, Daniel Ewing and Sean Dockery and Duke, etc. all the time. I don't know the names of the PG's at Santa Clara, San Francisco, Pepperdine, etc. but I'd venture to say they aren't ACC caliber.


----------



## Geaux Tigers

> Originally posted by <b>zagsfan20</b>!
> Derek's numbers in his sophmore year so far have been just as good if not better than what Salim and Redick did their sophmore years....


Its best shooter in the nation...not best shooter during their respective sophomore years...

Also...

*Favorite* - _n_, _adj._ One that enjoys special favor or regard. One that is trusted, indulged, or preferred above all others, especially by a superior


*Best* -_adj_ Superior to the average.


----------



## zagsfan20

> The reason Felton is going to be a lottery pick is b/c the NBA is about more than shooting. Felton is without a doubt a better all around player. I'll give you the shooting part in regards to Raivio cuz he can shoot the ball, but don't take it as far as saying he's as good as Felton and should be getting the same type of NBA love.


If you compare Raivio and Felton, Felton doesnt have that much better all around numbers at all.....Raivio score more points per game....However, Felton has a slight edge in rebounds and assists.....The number that stands out to me though is Felton has 84 turnover, while Raivio has just 38......As a sophomore Raivio is much smarter with the ball.....What makes Felton so much better?


----------



## jmk

> Originally posted by <b>zagsfan20</b>!
> 
> 
> If you compare Raivio and Felton, Felton doesnt have that much better all around numbers at all.....Raivio score more points per game....However, Felton has a slight edge in rebounds and assists.....The number that stands out to me though is Felton has 84 turnover, while Raivio has just 38......As a sophomore Raivio is much smarter with the ball.....What makes Felton so much better?


A slight edge in rebounds and assists? Take a look at the numbers:

Raivio: 36.7 mpg 13.1 ppg 2.7 rpg 5.0 apg 2.1 TO 1.7 STL .437 FG% .901 FT% .467 3PT%

Felton: 30.1 mpg 11.4 ppg 4.0 rpg 7.0 apg 4.0 TO 2.0 STL 0.4 BLK .488 FG% .661 FT% .470 3PT%

And those are simply numbers. The fact is, just because a player goes to Gonzaga does not make him better than everyone else in the nation.


----------



## Geaux Tigers

> Originally posted by <b>zagsfan20</b>!
> 
> 
> If you compare Raivio and Felton, Felton doesnt have that much better all around numbers at all.....Raivio score more points per game....However, Felton has a slight edge in rebounds and assists.....The number that stands out to me though is Felton has 84 turnover, while Raivio has just 38......As a sophomore Raivio is much smarter with the ball.....What makes Felton so much better?


When Raivio faces the talent of the ACC's opposing pg's each and every game like Felton does then we can talk about it. Fact is Gonzaga is a good team and Raivio is a good player but Raivio plays against weaker competition as a whole. Even though Gonzaga plays tough teams when it comes down to conference play there isnt much competition for him. Im high on Raivio but fact is he doesnt face the same talent night in and night out.

Felton has faced these opposing guards this year:
Chris Paul 
John Gilchrist
Jarret Jack
BJ Elder
Will Bynum
Taylor Coppenrath
Daniel Ewing 
Sean Dockery
CJ Watson
Patrick Sparks
Rajon Rondo
Von Wafer
Pierre Peirce
Jeff Horner

But this is a thread about shooting so I digress...

Raivio may be in this conversation when Redick and Stoudemire are gone but until then hes a long shot...


----------



## zagsfan20

> Felton has faced these opposing guards this year:


[QOUTE]Chris Paul
John Gilchrist
Jarret Jack
BJ Elder
Will Bynum
Taylor Coppenrath
Daniel Ewing
Sean Dockery
CJ Watson
Patrick Sparks
Rajon Rondo
Von Wafer
Pierre Peirce
Jeff Horner[/QOUTE]

Last time i checked Taylor Coppenrath was a power forward.....

and Raivio lit up Jarrett Jack and Georgia Tech for 21, so obviously Raivio can play against ACC guards.....


----------



## Geaux Tigers

> Originally posted by <b>zagsfan20</b>!
> 
> 
> [QOUTE]Chris Paul
> John Gilchrist
> Jarret Jack
> BJ Elder
> Will Bynum
> Taylor Coppenrath
> Daniel Ewing
> Sean Dockery
> CJ Watson
> Patrick Sparks
> Rajon Rondo
> Von Wafer
> Pierre Peirce
> Jeff Horner[/QOUTE]
> 
> Last time i checked Taylor Coppenrath was a power forward.....
> 
> and Raivio lit up Jarrett Jack and Georgia Tech for 21, so obviously Raivio can play against ACC guards.....


Woops on the Coppenrath I always think G when I hear the name...

BUT...

If you could look up from Raivio's balls for a second you might realize that Im not talking about Raivio not being ABLE to compete with ACC talent, he just doesnt. Im talking about how Felton has comparable numbers to Raivio but faces harder talent levels night in and night out so Felton's are more impressive to me. So Raivio has a great game vs Jarrett Jack thats awesome Im happy for him.

Fact is if Im taking one of those for one year as of right now...its Felton and I think I got some people with me...


----------



## zagsfan20

Pierre Pierce, Jeff Horner play in Big 10

C.J. Watson, Patrick Sparks and Rajon Rondo all play in the SEC

Von Wafer, Ewing and BJ Elder are shooting guards

Chris Paul, John Gilchrist and Jarrett Jack are good but Raivio has proven he can compete just as much by what he has done against top guards in the nation.....


----------



## vadimivich

> Raivio: 36.7 mpg 13.1 ppg 2.7 rpg 5.0 apg 2.1 TO 1.7 STL .437 FG% .901 FT% .467 3PT%
> 
> Felton: 30.1 mpg 11.4 ppg 4.0 rpg 7.0 apg 4.0 TO 2.0 STL 0.4 BLK .488 FG% .661 FT% .470 3PT%


Other than the fact that Felton shoots a higher percentage (both from the floor and from the 3pt line), is a better passer and rebounder and is a much better athlete and defender than Raivio ... well, I guess they are equivalent players.

Raivio is a nice college PG with the ability to get hot shooting the ball occasionally (see: GT game). Felton is a freak athlete with a penchant to turn the ball every once in a while. Put them both on the same floor for 5 minutes and it's pretty evident which one has the better NBA game.


----------



## Geaux Tigers

I had such a nice reply post but when I submitted it it got lost with the site problems.

I just gave the list of top PG's that Raivio faced. It was a nice list of 7 PG's of similar quality. However it was only in 4 games. Then I had a list of nobodys that he faces on a regular basis.


----------



## The Truth

> Originally posted by <b>zagsfan20</b>!
> Pierre Pierce, Jeff Horner play in Big 10
> 
> C.J. Watson, Patrick Sparks and Rajon Rondo all play in the SEC
> 
> Von Wafer, Ewing and BJ Elder are shooting guards
> 
> Chris Paul, John Gilchrist and Jarrett Jack are good but Raivio has proven he can compete just as much by what he has done against top guards in the nation.....


Actually Ewing plays both guard positions. And when they play UNC he guards Felton most of the time.


----------



## zagsfan20

I'm getting anxious for the tourney to start so i can prove all you Raivio and Gonzaga haters wrong....Face it Gonzaga plays tougher when they have tougher competition.....I guess wins against Washington, Georgia Tech and Oklahoma St. and solid efforts in all those games by Derek doesnt do him justice.....

So what are you trying to get at with the competition that Raivio has to face in the WCC?? A guy by the name of Steve Nash played against those "crappy" WCC point guards and now he is tearing up the league....

John Stockton 
Steve Nash
Dan Dickau

all were good WCC point guards and i would say they have fared pretty good when they play against the better guards....


----------



## jalen5

> Originally posted by <b>vadimivich</b>!
> 
> 
> Other than the fact that Felton shoots a higher percentage (both from the floor and from the 3pt line), is a better passer and rebounder and is a much better athlete and defender than Raivio ... well, I guess they are equivalent players.
> 
> Raivio is a nice college PG with the ability to get hot shooting the ball occasionally (see: GT game). Felton is a freak athlete with a penchant to turn the ball every once in a while. Put them both on the same floor for 5 minutes and it's pretty evident which one has the better NBA game.



I couldn't have said it better myself. Bottom line: Felton is better than Raivio. Raivio is a nice young player, but to say his game translates to the NBA as good as or better than Felton's is downright idiotic and ludacris.


----------



## JuniorNoboa

> Originally posted by <b>jalen5</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> I couldn't have said it better myself. Bottom line: Felton is better than Raivio. Raivio is a nice young player, but to say his game translates to the NBA as good as or better than Felton's is downright idiotic and ludacris.



But he is a sophomore !!!!


----------



## zagsfan20

Your right he is a sophmore....Who barely played behind the WCC player of the year last year.....So actually this is his first full year of actually getting regular minutes.....


----------



## HeinzGuderian

Raivio is in a class by himself. The Deron Williams/Raymond Feltons/Jarret Jacks/John Gilchrists/Chris Pauls of the world are going to spend their entire NBA careers just trying to measure up to this guy. I feel bad for them, just like all those guys in the 90's who always came in 2nd or 3rd no matter how good they were because Jordan was around.


----------



## zagsfan20

> Raivio is in a class by himself. The Deron Williams/Raymond Feltons/Jarret Jacks/John Gilchrists/Chris Pauls of the world are going to spend their entire NBA careers just trying to measure up to this guy.


I've never stated that I thought Raivio was BETTER than these guys.....I just think that Raivio doesnt get any respect whatsoever outside of the WCC......


----------



## HeinzGuderian

> Originally posted by <b>zagsfan20</b>!
> 
> 
> I've never stated that I thought Raivio was BETTER than these guys.....I just think that Raivio doesnt get any respect whatsoever outside of the WCC......


Dude, stop hating on Raivio, he's only a sophmore.


----------



## zagsfan20

Felton = Rod Strickland in the NBA......


----------



## Middy

this thread has gotten way off topic. But it's okay because Raivio could beat Jesus at basketball. Ive heard JC has a sick crossover but he's no match for Raivio.


----------



## JuniorNoboa

> Originally posted by <b>zagsfan20</b>!
> Felton = Rod Strickland in the NBA......


Rod Strickland was a pretty good NBA player. Raivio will never reach those levels.


----------



## zagsfan20

Raivio will be a Mark Price, Steve Kerr, Dana Barros type player in the NBA.....


----------



## Ghost

> Originally posted by <b>zagsfan20</b>!
> Raivio will be a Mark Price, Steve Kerr, Dana Barros type player in the NBA.....


Ravio will never be as good as Mark Price, Maybe Stev Kerr just because both can shoot the three very well but as of right now Ravio most likely wouldn't get drafted and would be a free agent pick up after the draft. You make all Zag fans on this board look like idiots(by all I mean you and me) just because Ravio is from your town doesn't mean he is as good as one of the top points guards in the nation and will be as good as one of the better point guards in the NBA of all-time.


----------



## Geaux Tigers

Im a big Zags fan and I like Raivio a lot. Im not a Raivio hater...Im a Raivio realist. Im not saying he wont ever be the best shooter in basketball or a good PG on the national level. Im saying the comparisons to Felton are just wrong.


----------



## JuniorNoboa

How is Pierre-Marie Altidor Cespedes, a fellow Canadian, doing this year?

Do you see him as a backup at point until a senior, or are there plans do move him or Raivio into the 2 spot in the upcoming 2 years?


----------



## Ghost

> Originally posted by <b>JuniorNoboa</b>!
> How is Pierre-Marie Altidor Cespedes, a fellow Canadian, doing this year?
> 
> Do you see him as a backup at point until a senior, or are there plans do move him or Raivio into the 2 spot in the upcoming 2 years?


He is getting a lot of playing time as a freshman this year. He is the first guard off the bench(if you count David Pendergraft as a Foward) I think he is better than Ravio in every catagory except shooting but Zagsfan wont agree. I think it all depends on what Adam Morrison does after the season, I don't think he will leave Gonzaga early but if he does Knight can play Small Foward or Shooting Guard. I see him starting within two years unless Jeremy Pargo is as good as his brother.


----------



## Jonathan Watters

PMAC is freakin athletic. He seems to have a good understanding of how to get the ball to his teammates, and an ability to get to the basket. I haven't seen him score too much, but you have to like the physical tools.


----------



## Ghost

> Originally posted by <b>blabla97</b>!
> PMAC is freakin athletic. He seems to have a good understanding of how to get the ball to his teammates, and an ability to get to the basket. I haven't seen him score too much, but you have to like the physical tools.


He is very athletic and very smart, He usally trys to find his teamates before he looks for his own shot, and focus more on defense than offense.


----------



## vadimivich

> Raivio will be a Mark Price, Steve Kerr, Dana Barros type player in the NBA.....


Raivio couldn't sniff Mark Price's jock - definitely not in college, and almost certainly not in the pros. Just because he's white and can shoot the 3 a little does not make him even a remotely similar player.


----------



## zagsfan20

> Raivio couldn't sniff Mark Price's jock - definitely not in college, and almost certainly not in the pros. Just because he's white and can shoot the 3 a little does not make him even a remotely similar player.


Why do you say that?? As a sophomore Price and Raivio's statistics are very comparable...and Raivio has better numbers as a sophomore then Steve Nash did.....


----------



## JuniorNoboa

*F Gerry*

GMac you greedy attention seeking whore. FU and F Scranton for supporting your stupid and idiotic shots. Start for looking for good shots you greedy *****. You are playing with an All-American - get him involved. Oh wait, you need more attention? Get the **** away from syracuse and declare for the NBA Draft. ****er.


----------



## zagsfan20

Its not G-Mac's fault you guys lost, Karl Krauser was on fire!


----------



## Geaux Tigers

GMac is the man!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## zagsfan20

G-Mac is alright, but I prefer Deiner......


----------



## JuniorNoboa

> Originally posted by <b>zagsfan20</b>!
> Its not G-Mac's fault you guys lost, Karl Krauser was on fire!


5-21, 3-14 from the three point line. If your going to play the blame game, Gerry is always a good opening move.


----------



## The Truth

> Originally posted by <b>zagsfan20</b>!
> 
> 
> Why do you say that?? As a sophomore Price and Raivio's statistics are very comparable...and Raivio has better numbers as a sophomore then Steve Nash did.....


Mark Price played against MUCH better competition.

Not only because he played in a more competitive conference, but he also played in an era before early entry to the NBA draft diluted the talent at the college level. To compare them based on statistics is ridiculous.


----------



## vadimivich

Mark Price scored 20pts a game as a freshman. He was arguably the best player in the ACC (at a time when it was a very loaded conference). If there had been a 3pt line at that time, Price would have been even more deadly. He was named to the ACC's Silver Aniversary Team last year along with Len Bias, Ralph Sampson, Michael Jordan, and Christian Laettner. Can you imagine Raivio's name on a team with those players? 

Mark Price is one of the greatest college PG's ever. Raivio isn't even in the same ballpark. He's a nice player. But lets not go wild with the comparison's here.


----------



## zagsfan20

Raivio had a pretty good game tonight....

29 pts. 6-10 Fg, 5-6 3pt., 12-12 Ft's, 7 assists, 5 Reb, 1 TO.....

Tops any game Felton has had this year.....

In fact i want someone to find a PG with a stat line better than that all year....


----------



## azswami

Yet another coach weighs in on the topic, this time it's Oregons Ernie Kent.



> "Salim is the best shooter in the country. That kid at Duke is not," Kent said.
> 
> Kent, who has led various U.S. junior national teams in recent years, is more qualified than most to make the comparison, *having coached Redick in the summer.*
> 
> "He doesn't have Salim's demeanor to just dagger you to death like that," Kent said. "(Stoudamire) can hit them with guys right in his face, and from deep. He's good. That's a great luxury to have."
> 
> ...."It didn't surprise anybody he would shoot from there, except maybe Aaron," Kent said. "I was yelling right there from the bench, 'Pressure him.' There are three seconds left. What do you think he is going to do?"


----------



## zagsfan20

Thats a Pac-10 coaches point of view...I'm sure if you asked any ACC coach he would say Redick is the best and if you asked any WCC coach they would say Raivio....


----------



## Geaux Tigers

Salim Stoudemire with his 9th three vs Oregon State. He is shooting incredibly this season.


----------



## Geaux Tigers

They just showed the replays of all 9 of Salim's threes in the OSU game and I dont think one even hit the rim! They took him out mid way in the second half so I bet he could have had 12 three's easy...


----------



## Ghost

when Salim is on his game like that I don't think there is a team in the nation with a player that could stop him.


----------



## azswami

Too bad it took Mr. Olson 3 1/2 years to get through the kids head that he needed to relax and have fun. 

Incredible to think that they didn't start running plays for him until the last 15 games. Lute just wasn't comfortable with him until now.

In some scrimmages now, the defenders are told to grab his jersey every chance they get, as a few of the Pac-10 teams have long decided that's the way to go.


----------



## Tintin

Brenden Plavitch is the best shooter in the country. 
These other guys just don't have that kind of range.

The reason why? If you don't guard him 35 feet out he'll pop it on you. 

This changes the way a defense reacts from halfcourt to the baseline.
You don't have to cover any of these other guys 23 feet and out. Plavitch destroys zones, forcing man coverages without help which leads to pentration and dishing. Plavitch can ruin a coaches plan. Ask Huggins, Calipari and Boheigm about him.

Tintin


----------



## Middy

Tintin said:


> Brenden Plavitch is the best shooter in the country.
> These other guys just don't have that kind of range.
> 
> The reason why? If you don't guard him 35 feet out he'll pop it on you.
> 
> This changes the way a defense reacts from halfcourt to the baseline.
> You don't have to cover any of these other guys 23 feet and out. Plavitch destroys zones, forcing man coverages without help which leads to pentration and dishing. Plavitch can ruin a coaches plan. Ask Huggins, Calipari and Boheigm about him.
> 
> Tintin


Have you even seen any of them play? Redick can hit them from deep, and I can tell you that I've seen Stoudamire hit 25+ footers numerous times. Plavich is great, but lets see his numbers up against Stoudamire's or Raivio's.


----------



## HKF

Plavich also leads the NCAA in horrible shot selection and can't do much else but shoot 3's. All he does is run to the 3 point line. Yes he has range, but Lutz has given him the greenlight to shoot so much, that he just chucks them up with no reservation about looking for better shots.


----------



## TheBrook

I have to say Keydrel Clark, but that is biais. Stodamier is up there as well.


----------



## rebelsun

Louis Amundson, UNLV - shooting a sizzling 30% from the free throw line: 

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=8032


----------



## DimerKidd

RebelSun said:


> Louis Amundson, UNLV - shooting a sizzling 30% from the free throw line:
> 
> http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=8032


wow miss a few more and hes as good as chris dudley :biggrin:


----------



## Starks

The Duke/NC State game and Washington/Arizona games are back to back today. The Arizona one on CBS. These are good games to watch to comapre Redick and Stoudamire. I know many people don't get to see teams on the west coast play.Both have come up big. Stoudamire has been money from the 3 point line today. He has over 20 points at halftime.


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## TM

JJ - 35pts, SS - 37... Duke wins, Arizona loses (although Duke's game was only a semi and Zona's was a final)... JJ 7-12 3pt FG, SS 7-13

SS has two more points, therefore he is the best shooter in college basketball. :wink:


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## JuniorNoboa

After watching the two this year, I have come to the conclusion that Stoudamire is the better shooter. They both have to take very difficult shots.

And the whole % argument is crap. Despite teams playing there defences towards Reddick, Duke runs plays for him over and over. He gets just as many good looks as Stoudamire. Stoudamire does not get nearly as many plays run for him to get threes, and he has take alot of very difficult shots that he created. 

The lower % argument because Reddick takes harder shots was and is BS.


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## Middy

You know that you are examining some great shooters when both of them combine for 70+ pts and more than 50% from 3 land. 

JJ gets the victory, so I suppose he also gets the last laugh. Where do you think Zona will be seeded?


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## JuniorNoboa

Middy said:


> You know that you are examining some great shooters when both of them combine for 70+ pts and more than 50% from 3 land.
> 
> JJ gets the victory, so I suppose he also gets the last laugh. Where do you think Zona will be seeded?


If they had won today I think I would have them as a #1 seed, ranked #4. With the loss they fell to #10. Its that tight between #3 and #10. 

Expect a 2 or a 3 seed - and expect to be in Illinois or UNC's bracket as you will be ranked somewhere between 7-10 by the commitee.


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## Middy

JuniorNoboa said:


> If they had won today I think I would have them as a #1 seed, ranked #4. With the loss they fell to #10. Its that tight between #3 and #10.
> 
> Expect a 2 or a 3 seed - and expect to be in Illinois or UNC's bracket as you will be ranked somewhere between 7-10 by the commitee.


I was really hoping that UA would end up in Albequerque, but I guess I can't make a great argument for that when the race for the 4-8 spots is so close.

I think Arizona would fare better against UNC or IU than any other 1 seed simply because the wildcats are at their best as underdogs.

just curious junior, but who is you final four (based off of your bracket from Mar12)?


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