# (Merged)Payton traded to the Celtics



## Lakers6010

*Payton traded to the Celtics*

The Celtics receive: 
Gary Payton 
Rick Fox 
Lakers' 2005 First Round Draft Pick 
Cash 

The Lakers receive: 
Chucky Atkins 
Chris Mihm 
Marcus Banks 
Celtics' 2005 Second Round Draft Pick

God trade for the Lakers. We give up two relics, one first round pick, but look at all the youth and potential we get back. Plus, that second round pick from the Celts will be pretty good since they will suck.


----------



## nima86

*Lakers-Celtic trade*

Just heard on radio here that this trade has been done

Lakers send Payton, Fox, #1 pick (lotto protected 2005) and cash to Boston for Mihm, Banks, Atkins and #2 pick. Celtics will use cash to sign Rebraca.


----------



## reHEATed

Marcus Banks being included in the deal makes this trade stupid as could be for the Celts


----------



## droppinknowledge

yea i really don't agree with the celts trading banks.


----------



## Lakers6010

I agree


----------



## greekbullsfan

link plz


----------



## Most Ballingest Playa

Was Banks that impressive?


----------



## reHEATed

> Originally posted by <b>Most Ballingest Playa</b>!
> Was Banks that impressive?


when he played he did


he didnt get many oppurtunities to play though


----------



## digital jello

Is this real?

If not, change the title of the thread.


----------



## KokoTheMonkey

http://www.hoopshype.com/rumors.htm 



I think this is where this guy got it from, but I'm still not believing it until I see it actually completed.


----------



## reHEATed

Lakers future looks great

Banks
Kobe, Caron
Lamar, Caron

is going to be a top backcourt rotation for a long time. And this aint even including Rush


----------



## Lakers6010

It is offical


www.lakersground.net

http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewforum.php?f=8

http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=268592


----------



## Damian Necronamous

> Originally posted by <b>KokoTheMonkey</b>!
> http://www.hoopshype.com/rumors.htm
> 
> 
> 
> I think this is where this guy got it from, but I'm still not believing it until I see it actually completed.


No, that's the deal. It's been reported on multiple radio stations. It will become official within the hour.


----------



## digital jello

Haha, Rick Fox back on the team he was drafted by and didn't want to play for. I'm lovin' it.


----------



## hobojoe

The Celtics traded Banks in this deal? Wow, what a horrible deal for the Celtics. I don't know what Ainge is thinking, Payton and Pierce will clash heads immediately, both want the ball in their hands at all times and Banks was the PG of the future. Moronic move.


----------



## SamTheMan67

what a crazy offseasoN!


----------



## Lakers6010

Kobe - 26
Banks - 23
Butler - 24
Odom - 25
Rush - 24
Sasha - 20
Mihm - 25
Slava - 25


We are very young!!!


----------



## rocketsthathavespurs

ya now i can like gary patyon again lol hes not on lakers


----------



## CrimsonShadows

don't forget Luke. 

Lakers are really building the fondations of yet another dynasty.


----------



## Damian Necronamous

> Originally posted by <b>CrimsonShadows</b>!
> don't forget Luke.
> 
> Lakers are really building the fondations of yet another dynasty.


What about Cook?!:upset:


----------



## Hov

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=1853576


----------



## Cap

Overall, I like the trade long term because Mihm is a serviceable 7 foot defender that can play a great role as a backup for 20-25 mpg, and is still just 25. Atkins is an average PG at best, I'd rather have Payton instead (but that would have killed the deal obviously). But Banks was the real big piece of this trade because he's young enough to develop a little and is already a very good defender, he can actually stay in front of his man, a critical element for a team with an average defensive front court. 

By the way, one of the reasons Ainge is doing this because he has 17 on the roster and needs to kill that bloat. Fox will retire, that's one, and since this was 3 for 2, that's another one. Payton and Fox contracts combined (plus the cash the Lakers dealt?) saves Ainge about $10 million, which gives him some good money under the cap to work with next summer. 

Celtic fans, correct me on the figures if I miscalculated.


----------



## DaUnbreakableKinG

Lakers got a very good deal.


----------



## Lakers6010

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=1853576


IT'S A DONE DEAL

:rbanana: :rbanana: :banana: :banana: :gbanana: :gbanana: :wbanana:


----------



## futuristxen

Banks? I thought he was the future point guard for the Celtics?

First you got rid of Mike James. Now Banks.

Once again proving, Danny Ainge is a sucker.

Why didn't the Lakers just ask for Paul Pierce while they were at it? I'm sure he could have been had for Slava Mdvedenko.

And what is Danny Ainge doing helping the Lakers?


----------



## Jordan4life_2004

This isn't that big of deal. The Celtics get an experienced pg in Payton. He'll pretty much be able to run the offense to his liking. He'll probably have a decent year. They save some money in this deal especially if Fox retires. They get a 1st round pick. 


From the Lakers point of view. They get a 7 foot stiff in Chris Mihm. I guess he's an ok back-up. Atkins is a back-up pg at best that's shot under 40% from the field 3 of the last 5 seasons. The wild card is banks. He has potential. But if I had a dollar for every time I heard that. And with Payton gone. No way Malone comes back now.


----------



## Hibachi!

I don't understand why everyone is going all crazy that Banks was included... He wasn't that good... He had his good days, just like Mihm, but neither have shown that they can play consistently... It's a wash... Nobody got robbed, the Lakers did what they needed to do, get younger, the Celtics got a PG, done and done


----------



## nima86

someone brought this point up not saying that its going to happen but look at Baron davis first year numbers and compare them to Banks.


----------



## Jordan4life_2004

> Originally posted by <b>SacKings384</b>!
> I don't understand why everyone is going all crazy that Banks was included... He wasn't that good... He had his good days, just like Mihm, but neither have shown that they can play consistently... It's a wash... Nobody got robbed, the Lakers did what they needed to do, get younger, the Celtics got a PG, done and done


My point exactly. But don't be surprised to see multiple "Banks is a future star" threads now that he's a Laker, The guy has got potential. No more or less.


----------



## JuniorNoboa

Banks like many youngsters is only highly regarded because he hasn't had the time to prove that he is a failure.

Give him time .


----------



## Jordan4life_2004

> Originally posted by <b>nima86</b>!
> someone brought this point up not saying that its going to happen but look at Baron davis first year numbers and compare them to Banks.


How bout guys like Tyes Edney? Mateen Cleeves? I'm sure I could give you a bunch of guys that had "potential" that never did jack in the nba. It's 50-50 that banks will become an impact player.


----------



## Pan Mengtu

Vujacic will, or at least should, start next year.


----------



## Devestata

If you think Payton and Pierce on the same team is bad enough, you can't forget about Ricky Davis. This could pose quite a problem.


----------



## jokeaward

This is what Atkins gets for leading the Celtics to the playoffs.

They did get the pick and two expiring deals since Fox is done. I don't know if they can use cap space, but the pick should be good, maybe a Hakim Warrick or Louis Williams.


----------



## Yao Mania

Great Page 2 article on the trade:
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/040806


----------



## amd pwr

You can't judge a player from one season. Ainge is reminding me of Pitino more and more every day.


----------



## CMC

The Lakers pick is lotto-protected on top of everything else.

Bad trade by the Celtics.


----------



## Hibachi!

No, you can't judge a player from one season, but it goes both ways. He may be good, but he may suck, and the chances of a player sucking, are much higher than one being good


----------



## Jordan4life_2004

> Originally posted by <b>CMC</b>!
> The Lakers pick is lotto-protected on top of everything else.
> 
> Bad trade by the Celtics.


That doesn't matter. They freed up a lot of cap space. Which is what they really wanted to do anyway.


----------



## WhoDaBest23

This is a good deal for the Lakers. They get younger and pick up some nice pieces with Banks and Mihm. Atkins is a pretty good pickup for a backup too. I don't think it's too bad of a deal for the Celtics. Yeah they gave up their "point guard of the future" in Banks, but he's replacable I think. Payton may be on his last tank of gas, but he still has some left in him. As long as he doesn't whine like he did with the Lakers, he shouldn't be too bad. Just hope that he and Pierce can co-exist. Fox is crap and his contract's expiring anyways. I think the gem for the Celtics is the 1st round pick from the Lakers. They could pick up a really nice player in next year's draft with that pick.


----------



## Anima

> Originally posted by <b>CMC</b>!
> The Lakers pick is lotto-protected on top of everything else.


The Celtics got that pick. The Lakers got a 2nd rounder.


----------



## Jordan4life_2004

> Originally posted by <b>WhoDaBest23</b>
> 
> Atkins is a pretty good pickup for a backup too.




That's the problem. He's gonna be their starter. I'd take Ty Lue in a second over Atkins.


----------



## SilentOneX

I guess that the Lakers is in their first year of rebuilding. Then the Celtics are trying to be a better contender than they were last season.


----------



## Richie Rich

> Originally posted by <b>Jordan4life_2004</b>!
> This isn't that big of deal. The Celtics get an experienced pg in Payton. He'll pretty much be able to run the offense to his liking. He'll probably have a decent year. They save some money in this deal especially if Fox retires. They get a 1st round pick.
> 
> 
> From the Lakers point of view. They get a 7 foot stiff in Chris Mihm. I guess he's an ok back-up. Atkins is a back-up pg at best that's shot under 40% from the field 3 of the last 5 seasons. The wild card is banks. He has potential. But if I had a dollar for every time I heard that. And with Payton gone. No way Malone comes back now.



This sums it up, it was basically the C's clearing roster and the Lakers getting a potential PG in Banks, he hasn't proven anything yet cuz they wouldnt give him time here, i liked him...GL Marcus...


----------



## lempbizkit

> Originally posted by <b>wadeshaqeddie</b>!
> Marcus Banks being included in the deal makes this trade stupid as could be for the Celts


Banks and Mihm suck. No big losses in this trade.


----------



## Damian Necronamous

> Originally posted by <b>Jordan4life_2004</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's the problem. He's gonna be their starter. I'd take Ty Lue in a second over Atkins.


Well, Atkins is better than Ty Lue, but I'd bet that Marcus Banks is the starter.


----------



## SilentOneX

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> 
> 
> Well, Atkins is better than Ty Lue, but I'd bet that Marcus Banks is the starter.


No doubt Atkins is better than Lue. Dunno who will be starting at point guard as of yet.


----------



## Hibachi!

Lakers should start Atkins, he's closer to a PG than Banks is, PLUS, Banks is a high energy guy, he needs to come off the bench, use his speed and the other players fatigue to get out in the fast break, because he can't shoot all that well...


----------



## SilentOneX

> Originally posted by <b>SacKings384</b>!
> Lakers should start Atkins, he's closer to a PG than Banks is, PLUS, Banks is a high energy guy, he needs to come off the bench, use his speed and the other players fatigue to get out in the fast break, because he can't shoot all that well...


You're right, I believe.


----------



## Jesus_Walks

> Originally posted by <b>SacKings384</b>!
> Lakers should start Atkins, he's closer to a PG than Banks is, PLUS, Banks is a high energy guy, he needs to come off the bench, use his speed and the other players fatigue to get out in the fast break, because he can't shoot all that well...


wow then allen iverson would be the best 6th man ever


----------



## Amareca

Banks is a bust and is not a true PG by any stretch of imagination.

What's the big deal?


----------



## Hibachi!

> Originally posted by <b>Jesus_Walks</b>!
> 
> wow then allen iverson would be the best 6th man ever


Yes, because Marcus Banks and Allen Iverson are the same caliber player, in fact, you can just interchange the two, if Banks had some tatoos a lighter complexion and corn rows, I wouldn't be able to tell the difference when they play. Because, they have the same exact game... Good intuition on your part


----------



## DaBigTicketKG21

I agree with BigAmare. This trade defintely doesn't help the Lakers next season. Why are they giving up two veterans for so many young players. Chris Mihm is not even a legitimate center. He was a bust everywhere he went. Marcus Banks is still too young and Chucky is decent. Too many young players and not enough veterans will look just like LAs other team.


----------



## Hibachi!

That's what the Lakers wanted, young guys, and it's not a bad move. I mean, come on, like Payton was going to be the leader of the team anyway... It's not like the guys looked up to Payton and his great veteran leadership. It's Kobes team, Kobe will be the leader. Good move for both teams.


----------



## CMC

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> Banks is a bust and is not a true PG by any stretch of imagination.
> 
> What's the big deal?


How can a PG who has barely played be considered a bust? 

The learning curve for a pg in the NBA is far longer than any other position in the league. 

From what I've seen, Banks has all the physical tools to be a very good pg in the future, just needs grooming as with every young pg.

And Mihm is a cheap, serviceable C who can get up and down the floor. He could be an energy big in the mould of Scott Pollard or Jeff Foster for the Lakers, which ain't bad for what they gave up.


----------



## goNBAjayhawks

Look, obviously Banks has potential but I think this shows that the C's feel the Delonte West has just as much potential as Banks, they get a quick fix in Payton and open up minutes for Delonte so they dont make the same mistake they made with banks that being not giving him enough time. I think the C's just lost faith and wasnt the type of pg the Celts wanted. Even in summer league when he was scoring 20 his assist/to ratio was pretty bad considering he was fighting for the starting spot at that time. I think it works for both teams, it gives the laker's solid back ups but no clear cut starting PG, i hope its Sasha (he's on my fantasy team) but b/c i hate the lakers im gonna say the C's got the better at least for the near future as in 1-3 yrs from now.


----------



## Jordan4life_2004

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> 
> 
> Well, Atkins is better than Ty Lue, but I'd bet that Marcus Banks is the starter.



Lue's 2004 stats

10.5 ppg

4.2 apg

1.63 turnovers a game

43.3% fg

38.3 3 pt%


Atkins 2004 stats

8.4 ppg

5.3 apg

1.83 turnovers a game

39.7% fg "this makes my eyes hurt"

33.6 3pt%

They're both average back-ups. But Lue is better.


----------



## goNBAjayhawks

> Originally posted by <b>CMC</b>!
> 
> How can a PG who has barely played be considered a bust?
> 
> The learning curve for a pg in the NBA is far longer than any other position in the league.
> 
> From what I've seen, Banks has all the physical tools to be a very good pg in the future, just needs grooming as with every young pg.
> 
> And Mihm is a cheap, serviceable C who can get up and down the floor. He could be an energy big in the mould of Scott Pollard or Jeff Foster for the Lakers, which ain't bad for what they gave up.


'03 pre-season bust Kirk Hinrich had his game flowing by the end of the year, and you could see in the box scores his progression, that took less than a year. Lebron even got it, D-Wade even did pg pretty good. I agree with you that it takes time to learn but he has had time with pre-season and practice and what games he did get minutes in. If he didnt play so uptempo i doubt he would have got picked so high for his pg skills caus it really seems like he'd much rather score but is too short to be off-guard.


----------



## Premier

Chucky can start, but is better off the bench. Atleast Atkins know's how to run an offense and lead a team. He was a breath of fresh air last year. Atkins, while he played for the Celtics, had a terrific assist to turnover ratio. Atkins can lead the break with ease. I would easily take Chucky over Lue. No question.

Edit: I still think Banks is capable of being a star in the league. He will be a solid player. In his prime, I believe Banks likely will average around 17 points and 6-7 assists.


----------



## Damian Necronamous

> Originally posted by <b>Jordan4life_2004</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> Lue's 2004 stats
> 
> 10.5 ppg
> 
> 4.2 apg
> 
> 1.63 turnovers a game
> 
> 43.3% fg
> 
> 38.3 3 pt%
> 
> 
> Atkins 2004 stats
> 
> 8.4 ppg
> 
> 5.3 apg
> 
> 1.83 turnovers a game
> 
> 39.7% fg "this makes my eyes hurt"
> 
> 33.6 3pt%
> 
> They're both average back-ups. But Lue is better.


Look at Atkins' numbers when he was starting for Boston. They are pretty even, but Atkins has the experience and a better outside shot.

*Atkins' 2004 stats*
12.0ppg
5.3apg
1.83TOpg
1.1spg
41.8FG%
35.1%3P

*Lue's 2004 stats*
10.5ppg
4.2apg
1.63TOpg
0.8spg
43.3% fg
38.3 3 pt%


----------



## Jordan4life_2004

> Originally posted by <b>goNBAjayhawks</b>!
> 
> 
> '03 pre-season bust Kirk Hinrich had his game flowing by the end of the year, and you could see in the box scores his progression, that took less than a year. Lebron even got it, D-Wade even did pg pretty good. I agree with you that it takes time to learn but he has had time with pre-season and practice and what games he did get minutes in. If he didnt play so uptempo i doubt he would have got picked so high for his pg skills caus it really seems like he'd much rather score but is too short to be off-guard.


Give me a break. Don't compare Banks to those guys. It's laughable.


----------



## Hibachi!

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> 
> 
> Look at Atkins' numbers when he was starting for Boston. They are pretty even, but Atkins has the experience and a better outside shot.
> 
> *Atkins' 2004 stats*
> 12.0ppg
> 5.3apg
> 1.83TOpg
> 1.1spg
> 41.8FG%
> 35.1%3P
> 
> *Lue's 2004 stats*
> 10.5ppg
> 4.2apg
> 1.63TOpg
> 0.8spg
> 43.3% fg
> 38.3 3 pt%


Nice one... I totally agree, Atkins is WAY better than Lue...


----------



## Jordan4life_2004

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> 
> 
> Look at Atkins' numbers when he was starting for Boston. They are pretty even, but Atkins has the experience and a better outside shot.
> 
> *Atkins' 2004 stats*
> 12.0ppg
> 5.3apg
> 1.83TOpg
> 1.1spg
> 41.8FG%
> 35.1%3P
> 
> *Lue's 2004 stats*
> 10.5ppg
> 4.2apg
> 1.63TOpg
> 0.8spg
> 43.3% fg
> 38.3 3 pt%



Well those Atkins numbers you came up with are based off 24 games. I gave you his SEASON numbers. And how is he a better shooter? He shot below 40% for the season.


----------



## kflo

any magic fan wanna stand up and say they'd rather have lue than atkins? any celt fan want lue?


----------



## pr0wler

As was earlier mentioned....the Lakers aren't looking for old veterans to fill out the roster. They have 9 guys who are under 27 (Bryant, Butler, Odom, Rush, Walton, Medvedenko, Mihm, Banks, Vujacic, Cook) so they will be good in a year or two. They will even be a playoff contender now....but by the time all those young players develop they will be in good shape.


----------



## Cap

> Originally posted by <b>kflo</b>!
> any magic fan wanna stand up and say they'd rather have lue than atkins? any celt fan want lue?


Of course not. Jordan4life_2004 is reaching and he knows it.


----------



## FanOfAll8472

> Originally posted by <b>Jordan4life_2004</b>!
> Well those Atkins numbers you came up with are based off 24 games. I gave you his SEASON numbers. And how is he a better shooter? He shot below 40% for the season.


I hate saying this since it gets thrown around a lot, but by watching the games, it was clear Atkins was better than Lue. Lue was terrible at defense and doesn't know how to run a team. Atkins does.



> If you think Payton and Pierce on the same team is bad enough, you can't forget about Ricky Davis. This could pose quite a problem.


Davis behaved very well last season. I can see a problem between Payton and one of the others though.



> The Celtics traded Banks in this deal? Wow, what a horrible deal for the Celtics. I don't know what Ainge is thinking, Payton and Pierce will clash heads immediately, both want the ball in their hands at all times and Banks was the PG of the future. Moronic move.


West and Banks were the PG's of the future. Apparently, now West is. He already takes care of the ball and makes better decisions than Banks, although Banks is a lot faster, better slasher, more dynamite.


----------



## MLKG

For most of the season he was playing less than 20 minutes a game behind Billups. Not really fair to compare numbers when one guy was a backup on the best team in the NBA and one guy was a starter on the worst.

Banks has potential, but right now Chucky Atkins is considerably better. Chucky isn't just an "average backup", he was probalby the third best backup in the league last year behind Fisher and Jackson. He was the starter on a 50 win Central Division champion team that featured 3 undrafted players and 1 second rounder in the starting lineup. He's a team player, a good leader, and he's clutch. He isn't the long term answer for anyone at point guard, but he can get you through the season and will step aside without complaining when you find someone better (he actually pushed for Joe D. to sign Billups).


----------



## Jordan4life_2004

Atkins career numbers=10.5 ppg, 3.5 apg, 41.4 fg%. TLue can't put up those numbers? They're both trash. But i'll go with Lue.


----------



## Premier

> Originally posted by <b>Jordan4life_2004</b>!
> 
> Atkins career numbers=10.5 ppg, 3.5 apg, 41.4 fg%. TLue can't put up those numbers? They're both trash. But i'll go with Lue.


If I was a Magic fan, I would want you to take Lue and his terrible defense.


----------



## Jordan4life_2004

> Originally posted by <b>Celts11</b>!
> 
> 
> If I was a Magic fan, I would want you to take Lue and his terrible defense.


Lue is alright for his size. He does a good job of guarding smaller guards "Iverson". He's a pretty good 3 point shooter too. I'd take him over Atkins sorry *** any day of the week.


----------



## kflo

> Originally posted by <b>Jordan4life_2004</b>!
> 
> 
> Lue is alright for his size. He does a good job of guarding smaller guards "Iverson". He's a pretty good 3 point shooter too. I'd take him over Atkins sorry *** any day of the week.


i'd just say you'd probably be in the minority. and not because most people think atkins is very good, but because lue is terrible.


----------



## The_Franchise

Celtics should've gotten more for Chris Mihm. What happens when Payton decides to retire at the end of this season?


----------



## Yyzlin

I guess I'm in the minority, but I would actually take Lue over Atkins, but really, it's choosing between two mediocrities. There are no winners.


----------



## BeanTownBrawler

> what happens when payton retires after this season.


Delonte West happens


----------



## banner17

> Originally posted by <b>Ming Bling</b>!
> Celtics should've gotten more for Chris Mihm. What happens when Payton decides to retire at the end of this season?


As someone said earlier, this is about clearing players and creating cap space. Between Blount, Raef, Jefferson, McCarty and Perkins, the Celtics didn't really need to hold onto Mihm - he wasn't going to get many minutes.

Payton will come off the books, clearing cap space and the reports so far for Delonte West transitioning to a point guard role are pretty solid so far. He did average I believe nearly 5 assists a game playing alongside Jameer Nelson. Having him understudy a Hall of Famer for a year should be good. 

I wouldn't be surprised if Ainge trades Payton to a contender near the trade deadline anyway just to pick up another pick. Doing so would give the Celtics 3 first round draft picks again next summer.


----------



## Jordan4life_2004

> Originally posted by <b>kflo</b>!
> 
> 
> i'd just say you'd probably be in the minority. and not because most people think atkins is very good, but because lue is terrible.



Lucky for me I can form my own opinion regardless of what anyone else thinks.


----------



## P2TheTruth34

This is not a bad deal for either team. Regardless of what many people say or thing Marcus Banks doesn't have all the tools of a point guard. He has unmatched athleticism and definitely noone can match his speed, I dont care who it is in the League. He made Iverson look average speed. He isn't a great shooter and is very very raw for a 4 year college player. He makes some plays that make you go "WOW!!" and then he'll show his below average court awareness on the next play. But, he certainly does have all the attributes to be a good PG, and he already is great defensively. I'm surprised Ainge traded him but the key to this deal for the Cs is the 1st rounder. The Celtics were going to lose Mihm regardless, and really didn't want Atkins salary. They did like Banks potential but to fill the spot with a solid PG like Payton who is not "done" as many people believe. I think he just sucked in that offense because of the selfishness of the stars. Anyone who thinks that Pierce and Payton will clash for the ball is dumb because Paul is always looking for help offensively and last year part of his problem was trying to pass too much. Good deal for Cs and regardless of opinion I think that they are possibly the best team in their new division or should at least be able to contend.

Blount- Good Post D- Sadly one of top Cs in East
LaFrentz- Who knows what he'll bring? But good SBer and shootin
Pierce-The Truth
Davis-Underrated by people who only saw him im Cle. because he played very unselfishly with the Cs and then people say he cant score. Ridiculous
Payton-I hope to god hes not done and can be one of the top PGs in the East, and not just statistically.


----------



## Premier

> Originally posted by <b>BeanTownBrawler</b>!
> 
> Delonte West happens


And when that happens, the Celtics will not suceed. West is not a capable PG and will never be. A wasted pick by the Celtics. If somehow we can trade Jiri for a starting point guard next year, the Celtics will not even come close to contending.



> Originally posted by Ming Bling!
> 
> Celtics should've gotten more for Chris Mihm. What happens when Payton decides to retire at the end of this season?


Money, Money, Money, Money.....Money.


----------



## rebelsun

This was a great deal for the Lakers. They get Marcus to team w/ Kobe in the backcourt, which is now probably the most explosive in the league. Mihm adds depth in the post. They have very balanced roster now:

Banks/Atkins
Kobe/Rush/Vujacic
Butler/Devean/Walton
Odom/Cook/Medvedenko
Divac/Mihm/Douthit(?)

I really question Boston letting Banks go this early.


----------



## P2TheTruth34

All these comparisons between Lue and Atkins based solely on stats is stupid... Look at the players actually games. Lue is quick, an average passer with ok court sense while Chucky isn't really fast, is a good passer, with pretty good court sense. I don't think that either one is much better than the other but I'd undoubtedly take Atkins over him, besides his contract, but Im not sure what Lue's is.


----------



## E.H. Munro

It's a good deal for both teams. It's also the precursor to SARS arriving in Boston. Of course, if the other half doesn't happen, it's probably a wash.


----------



## Jordan4life_2004

> Originally posted by <b>RebelSun</b>!
> This was a great deal for the Lakers. They get Marcus to team w/ Kobe in the backcourt, which is now probably the most explosive in the league. Mihm adds depth in the post. They have very balanced roster now:
> 
> Banks/Atkins
> Kobe/Rush/Vujacic
> Butler/Devean/Walton
> Odom/Cook/Medvedenko
> Divac/Mihm/Douthit(?)
> 
> I really question Boston letting Banks go this early.



If Banks was that good, he wouldn't have been traded.

The most explosive back-court in the league? Calm down Killer. Wait till Banks proves he can do something first. Mihm does add depth. But he's still basically a stiff who's done little to nothing in his 4 years. That's not gonna magically change because he's a Laker.


----------



## Cap

> Originally posted by <b>Jordan4life_2004</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> If Banks was that good, he wouldn't have been traded.


You should know by now that this was a salary/player dump by Boston. Sometimes GMs give up good players for more important reasons, like cap space for example. And sometimes those good players might be unpredictable, which Banks is. It happens. Ainge ain't West, it's fact. Guess who drafted Banks? Uh oh, what a surprise. 

This is really, really easy stuff to comprehend. 



> The most explosive back-court in the league? Calm down Killer. Wait till Banks proves he can do something first. Mihm does add depth. But he's still basically a stiff who's done little to nothing in his 4 years. That's not gonna magically change because he's a Laker.


Mihm is a perfectly good backup center. If that’s your definition of stiff, then so be it.


----------



## Jordan4life_2004

> Originally posted by <b>EHL</b>!
> 
> 
> You should know by now that this was a salary/player dump by Boston. Sometimes GMs give up good players for more important reasons, like cap space for example. And sometimes those good players might be unpredictable, which Banks is. It happens. Ainge ain't West, it's fact. Guess who drafted Banks? Uh oh, what a surprise.
> 
> This is really, really easy stuff to comprehend.
> 
> 
> 
> Mihm is a perfectly good backup center. If that’s your definition of stiff, then so be it.


Will see as far as Banks goes. To this point he's done nothing that says he'll be an impact player. 

As far as Mihm goes, isn't defense and rebounding something you want out of a back-up center? Mihm has neither. You've basically got Travis Knight Part 2.


----------



## Cap

> Originally posted by <b>Jordan4life_2004</b>!
> 
> 
> Will see as far as Banks goes. To this point he's done nothing that says he'll be an impact player.
> 
> As far as Mihm goes, isn't defense and rebounding something you want out of a back-up center? Mihm has neither. You've basically got Travis Knight Part 2.


Sure, if you ignore his rebounding and shot blocking numbers completely, yes, he doesn't bring rebounding and shot blocking.


----------



## -James-

what the hell is danny ainge thinking?


----------



## Jordan4life_2004

> Originally posted by <b>EHL</b>!
> 
> 
> Sure, if you ignore his rebounding and shot blocking numbers completely, yes, he doesn't bring rebounding and shot blocking.


Sorry. 5 rpg and less than 1 block won't cut it. And that was in the east. I won't even mention his crummy fg% which is horrible for a seven footer.


----------



## STING

*Re: Payton traded to the Celtics*



> Originally posted by <b>Lakers6010</b>!
> The Celtics receive:
> Gary Payton
> Rick Fox
> Lakers' 2005 First Round Draft Pick
> Cash
> 
> The Lakers receive:
> Chucky Atkins
> Chris Mihm
> Marcus Banks
> Celtics' 2005 Second Round Draft Pick
> 
> God trade for the Lakers. We give up two relics, one first round pick, but look at all the youth and potential we get back. Plus, that second round pick from the Celts will be pretty good since they will suck.


Gary Payton still has the ability to average 15 and 5, and with Pierce, Ricky Davis, young talents Delonte West and Al Jefferson, the Celtics might not suck like you think. Besides, it's a second round draft pick, and we get your first, so no matter what happens we pick before your *** twice.


----------



## Captain Obvious

Lue is much worse than Atkins. Lue may be a better shooter, but that's about it.


----------



## Damian Necronamous

> Originally posted by <b>Jordan4life_2004</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> If Banks was that good, he wouldn't have been traded.
> 
> The most explosive back-court in the league? Calm down Killer. Wait till Banks proves he can do something first. Mihm does add depth. But he's still basically a stiff who's done little to nothing in his 4 years. That's not gonna magically change because he's a Laker.


LOL, and it CONTINUES!!!

Lamar Odom and Caron Butler were up and coming stars before they were traded to the Lakers, now they're "injury-prone and a risk".

Vlade Divac was a good C before he signed with the Lakers, now he's "old and washed up".

Marcus Banks had great handles and was going to be a great PG before being traded to the Lakers, and now he "isn't going to turn into anything good".

Shut up already!


----------



## spiraling

Look at how many mins Mihm average b4 you talk smack about his reb and shotblock. Besides who care if he doesn't have good def anything is better than machine gun slava.


----------



## Pan Mengtu

I'm waiting for Lakers fans to start bashing Payton like everyone else had been doing for the last 3 months.


----------



## Pan Mengtu

Lakers have had a solid offseason considering they traded a top10 player of all time.


----------



## SilentOneX

> Originally posted by <b>Pan Mengtu</b>!
> I'm waiting for Lakers fans to start bashing Payton like everyone else had been doing for the last 3 months.


:laugh:


----------



## Premier

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> 
> Marcus Banks had great handles and was going to be a great PG before being traded to the Lakers, and now he "isn't going to turn into anything good".


No. Even though I am one of his biggest fans, it is evident that Banks doesn't have _great_ "handles". That is one of his main weaknesses. He has blazing speed, great slashing ablility, a deadly pull-up jumpshot, and good defense, but his turnovers limit his effectivness.


----------



## Cap

> Originally posted by <b>Jordan4life_2004</b>!
> 
> 
> Sorry. 5 rpg and less than 1 block won't cut it. And that was in the east. I won't even mention his crummy fg% which is horrible for a seven footer.


And how is that horrible when he played 17 mpg last season? Jesus, why do you even bother posting?


----------



## Cap

> Originally posted by <b>Celts11</b>!
> 
> 
> No. Even though I am one of his biggest fans, it is evident that Banks doesn't have _great_ "handles". That is one of his main weaknesses. He has blazing speed, great slashing ablility, a deadly pull-up jumpshot, and good defense, but his turnovers limit his effectivness.


Banks, a deadly pull-up jumper? Every time I've seen him play, his shot has looked erratic, and that's the feeling I get from most Celtics fans. Granted, I only caught about half a dozen Celtic games in the regular season and 4 games in the postseason.


----------



## Premier

> Originally posted by <b>EHL</b>!
> 
> Banks, a deadly pull-up jumper? Every time I've seen him play, his shot has looked erratic, and that's the feeling I get from most Celtics fans. Granted, I only caught about half a dozen Celtic games in the regular season and 4 games in the postseason.


His pull-up jumper off the break is one of his biggest offensive assests. He does have erratic shooting, but that is from the arc. When you let Marcus run, he will become more effective. Ask Rebelsun. He saw Banks play in college using the pull-up.



> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> 
> Payton will get the Celtics into the playoffs.


The Celtics were already in the playoffs, right LB?  :dead:


----------



## Damian Necronamous

> Originally posted by <b>Pan Mengtu</b>!
> I'm waiting for Lakers fans to start bashing Payton like everyone else had been doing for the last 3 months.


Oh, why don't you just go and jump on another bandwagon?

Payton will get the Celtics into the playoffs.


----------



## Cap

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> 
> 
> Oh, why don't you just go and jump on another bandwagon?
> 
> Payton will get the Celtics into the playoffs.


I agree, I don't think Payton is done by any means. Like I've said since the season ended, Payton is still good for 15-4-5. He's hardly "done".

And hey, what do you know, two Laker fans not saying Payton is washed up within a few minutes of Pan's post. :grinning:


----------



## Stevie B

Banks has the potential to be a star in this league. His quickness is matched by few. If his shot develops at all he'll be able to score 15ppg in addition to his stellar D.


----------



## Debt Collector

This trade is kind of ??? 

Lakers should have kept GP, even if Banks is decent and Atkins does the job, GP given rest and a workable offense is still way more capable then the two of them. Fox clears a contract issue, which is good, but they might as well have dug up a 7 foot corpse for the other guy - Mihm is just yuk

On the other side of things, i'd bet Boston becomes a top 5 seed in the east, and this opens alot of the halfcourt up for PP.


----------



## theBirdman

I wont even say anything!

I GIVE UP!!!


----------



## TheRifleman

> Originally posted by <b>theBirdman</b>!
> I wont even say anything!
> 
> I GIVE UP!!!


Ainge wants to help refuel the Lakers while getting some Celtic cap space for a future that will not include Payton or Fox.


----------



## Jordan4life_2004

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> 
> 
> LOL, and it CONTINUES!!!
> 
> Lamar Odom and Caron Butler were up and coming stars before they were traded to the Lakers, now they're "injury-prone and a risk".
> 
> Vlade Divac was a good C before he signed with the Lakers, now he's "old and washed up".
> 
> Marcus Banks had great handles and was going to be a great PG before being traded to the Lakers, and now he "isn't going to turn into anything good".
> 
> Shut up already!


That's funny. I happen to think it's the other way around. As soon as these guys become Lakers. They all of a sudden enhance. Do you really believe I didn't think Mihm was a stiff long before today? lol. Please. Vlade is old and washed up. Why do you think the Kings let him go? He's good for about 8-10 ppg, 5 rpg, 4 apg in about 25 minutes. I won't even get into his defense. Odom has had ONE good year. ONE. So forigive me if I don't think he's this superstar ready to bust out. Caron Butler had a horrible year last year. So who really knows what you're getting. Nobody said Marcus Banks can't be anything good. I don't give a **** about potential. Bring that **** to the court. Until he does. I don't wanna hear it.


----------



## Jordan4life_2004

> Originally posted by <b>EHL</b>!
> 
> 
> And how is that horrible when he played 17 mpg last season? Jesus, why do you even bother posting?


lol. Maybe there's a reason he doesn't play more than 17 mpg in the fricken east? He's garbage. Don't even try and justify his .08 blocks per game last year. A 7 footer should be able to average 1 by accident.


----------



## bballlife

Anyone thinking the Celtics got smoked on this one, need to head over to espn.com page 2 and checkout the sports guys newest article. You won't find a bigger celtics fan, he knows his stuff, and breaks down why this trade makes sense for the Celtics.


----------



## Jordan4life_2004

> Originally posted by <b>bballlife</b>!
> Anyone thinking the Celtics got smoked on this one, need to head over to espn.com page 2 and checkout the sports guys newest article. You won't find a bigger celtics fan, he knows his stuff, and breaks down why this trade makes sense for the Celtics.


They also have a poll on espn.com asking who got the better of the deal. Out of almost 10,000 people that have voted, a whopping 74% said the Celtics got the better of the deal. 

I'm not saying this trade makes LA worse. But it sure as hell doesn't make them better.


----------



## hobojoe

> Originally posted by <b>Jordan4life_2004</b>!
> 
> 
> They also have a poll on espn.com asking who got the better of the deal. Out of almost 10,000 people that have voted, a whopping 74% said the Celtics got the better of the deal.
> 
> I'm not saying this trade makes LA worse. But it sure as hell doesn't make them better.


Not to say I disagree with the results of that poll, but the "casual fan" just sees the names Gary Payton and Rick Fox and sees that they were traded for just much lesser known players, of course they'll say Boston got the better end of the deal. Polls on ESPN.com really can't be relied on to tell you much of anything.


----------



## Debt Collector

In one year the C's went from one of the most boring, sluggish threee point jacking up, pierce in isolation teams in the league to maybe the most uptempo and transition team in their division. Gonna be a fun team to watch not just because of the style but the personalities on the court.


----------



## Jordan4life_2004

> Originally posted by <b>Whodinee</b>!
> In one year the C's went from one of the most boring, sluggish threee point jacking up, pierce in isolation teams in the league to maybe the most uptempo and transition team in their division. Gonna be a fun team to watch not just because of the style but the personalities on the court.


I agree with that. I still don't see them winning anymore than 38 games though. Sad thing is, that might be a 7th seed in the east.


----------



## Debt Collector

Actually, IMO they have an outside shot of winning 50 and could grab that 4th seed that's been vacated by Jersey. I cant see too many other teams that would challenge them, right now id say they are better than Philadelphia, NY, Orlando, Milwaukee, and Jersey. And all they had to give for a legend running the point were guys who were gonna clog up the rotations


----------



## Jordan4life_2004

> Originally posted by <b>Whodinee</b>!
> Actually, IMO they have an outside shot of winning 50 and could grab that 4th seed that's been vacated by Jersey. I cant see too many other teams that would challenge them, right now id say they are better than Philadelphia, NY, Orlando, Milwaukee, and Jersey. And all they had to give for a legend running the point were guys who were gonna clog up the rotations


Damn. If the Celtics win 50 gameS i'll let Kobe rape me.


----------



## Wiggum

I dunno. He's awfully raw for a 4-year NCAA vet with an "NBA ready body" (nbadraft.net), he was drafted 13th, and he was traded by Jerry West. I wasn't aware that Marcus Banks was such a sizzling hot prospect until I read this thread.


----------



## Jordan4life_2004

> Originally posted by <b>Wiggum</b>!
> I dunno. He's awfully raw for a 4-year NCAA vet with an "NBA ready body" (nbadraft.net), he was drafted 13th, and he was traded by Jerry West. I wasn't aware that Marcus Banks was such a sizzling hot prospect until I read this thread.


Jerry West traded him? That's all I needed to hear. Banks ain't ****.


----------



## lastlaugh

Who wrote this article Bill Simmons?
He is the biggest homer on the face of the earth. He has no objectivity. He doesn't know his stuff. He doesn't know anything but blind favoritism for Boston teams.





> Originally posted by <b>bballlife</b>!
> Anyone thinking the Celtics got smoked on this one, need to head over to espn.com page 2 and checkout the sports guys newest article. You won't find a bigger celtics fan, he knows his stuff, and breaks down why this trade makes sense for the Celtics.


----------



## MemphisX

> Originally posted by <b>Jordan4life_2004</b>!
> 
> 
> Jerry West traded him? That's all I needed to hear. Banks ain't ****.


He wasn't really traded by West. He was selected for Ainge. Might have the same meaning though:grinning:


----------



## KokoTheMonkey

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> 
> 
> Not to say I disagree with the results of that poll, but the "casual fan" just sees the names Gary Payton and Rick Fox and sees that they were traded for just much lesser known players, of course they'll say Boston got the better end of the deal. Polls on ESPN.com really can't be relied on to tell you much of anything.



Rick Fox is a name? If there are any fans that saw Rick Fox's name and voted for Boston, they haven't watched basketball in 3-4 years.


Anyway, Banks' long term development is going to decide the outcome of this trade. For now, Boston got the better of it because they will be able to make a playoff push with a veteran PG, instead of relying on two young PG's (Banks and West) along with a natural backup PG (Atkins). Fox and Mihm are insignificant to me, although I think Mihm has a ton more value than a washed up Rick Fox. Now the Lakers have the PG problem that the Celtics were about to have: Two young PG's (Banks, Vujacic) and a natural backup PG (Atkins). 



To me, this deal doesn't really mean that much. It involves three mediocre players, a *former* great PG, and a washed up SF that can only contribute bench warmth. 



Oh, and on the Bill Simmons thing: Why all of the sudden is he an icon for a sports opinion? If you disagree with Bill Simmons, it's like you're off your rocker.


----------



## agoo

I enjoy the Pierce bashing here. Why is Pierce a ball hog?

Because George Karl mismanaged Team USA and made Pierce the scapegoat? Because Ainge dealt Walker a few weeks before the season started and Pierce was forced to assume his role as full time ballhandler?

Pierce's sullenness last season was deploreable, but lets consider the situation. You're 26 and just on the brink of your prime. You're a consensus top ten player in the league and you, along with Antoine Walker and Jim O'Brien, have given the Celtics their most successful run since they won a championship back in the 80s. Then, three weeks before the season starts, Walker is gone. Once the team finally adjusts to live without Toine, top chemistry guys, Eric Williams and Tony Battie are dealt. Come April, O'Brien is gone, Walter McCarty is starting a powerforward, and you're losing your way into the playoffs. I'd be pissed too.

Now, Pierce has the best PG he's ever played with, a good coach, one of his boys from back in college, and he's surrounded by young athletic players. I think you're going to see the return of Pierce to the top ten list (he's not exactly far off right now), and the Celtics will have the third seed in the playoffs as Atlantic division champs. Remember, there is no chance at all that Indy and Detroit can be top three seeds as they're in the same division.


----------



## lakegz

Rick Fox is the key to this trade. Wait till you Celtic fans get a load of the new and improved Rick Fox. man, you guys are so lucky to have him on your team.


----------



## rebelsun

I seriously wonder if those who think Marcus is some kind of chump have actually seen him play. 

Yes, he is a little erratic and needs to improve his jumpshot. However, the guy can blow past pretty much anyone and is absolutely fearless driving to the hoop. He is deadly on defense and gets a lot of steals. Banks' best attribute is his unflappable confidence and swagger, which many talented players don't have. Banks has said many times that whenever he plays, he feels he is the best player on the court; when he's on his game, it can be hard to argue.

It will be interesting to see how his dominant personality will mesh w/ Kobe. If they can play together, they could be devastating.


----------



## Lakers6010

How good is Banks?
Is he like poor man's Wade?


----------



## Cap

> Originally posted by <b>Lakers6010</b>!
> How good is Banks?
> Is he like poor man's Wade?


No, Wade is a much better scorer, shooter and passer. He's proven he can do those things. But as RebelSun mentioned, they are both fearless, and I wouldn't be surprised to see Banks have that same sort of swagger as Wade in the near future. 

That said, Wade is clearly the more proven player. But in terms of speed, athleticism, and defense, I'd actually say Banks is probably a bit better than Wade. Would you agree with that RebelSun?


----------



## rebelsun

> Originally posted by <b>Lakers6010</b>!
> How good is Banks?
> Is he like poor man's Wade?


The guy has tons of talent, but is a little erratic and needs to make better decisions with the ball. 

Marcus is very explosive and is great at taking his man off the dribble. He is absolutely fearless going to the hole and will sacrifice his body to finish the play - many times he ends up on his back after a drive. Marcus is much more of a scorer than a distributor. However, his slashing ability draws defenders and creates open teammates.

Banks definitely has leadership skills and is not afraid to lead. However, he needs to get his team more involved and make smarter decisions if he really wants to win.

He has been compared to a poor-man's Baron, and I don't think that's far off. Banks isn't as balanced a player as Baron or Wade, but I think he is definitely on their level in terms of athleticism, raw scoring ability, and defensive skills.

Banks is a little rough around the edges, but if he can work on his outside shot, get his teammates involved more on offense, and limit the turnovers, he could be special.


----------



## rebelsun

> Originally posted by <b>EHL</b>!
> No, Wade is a much better scorer, shooter and passer. He's proven he can do those things. But as RebelSun mentioned, they are both fearless, and I wouldn't be surprised to see Banks have that same sort of swagger as Wade in the near future.


I think Banks has had that swagger, maybe more, for years. I think he really believes whenever he plays, he's the best on the floor.



> That said, Wade is clearly the more proven player. But in terms of speed, athleticism, and defense, I'd actually say Banks is probably a bit better than Wade. Would you agree with that RebelSun?


I think Banks is definitely on Wade's level in terms of athleticism. I think Wade is the more balanced defender, as he is more active blocking shots, but Banks is definitely a good defender.

Wade is the more balanced player overall. Marcus can hog the ball sometimes, but I think that happens because in his mind he knows he can take it to the rack and make something happen at just about any time. Often times you'll see him bring the ball up, pass it around, it comes back to him, he gets frustrated w/ his teammates and just goes for the hoop.

Banks has huge potential, he just needs to balance his game and become a better team player.


----------



## Scinos

Ok, my take...I loved GP as a Sonic, but i'm very happy the Sonics traded him when we did. We got Ray Allen, Flip Murray and Luke Ridnour for him (and Mason) and now he's traded for Atkins, Mihm and Banks. :uhoh:

Everyone knows he's lost a step, but I still think he could be effective in the right situation. Is that team Boston, i'm not so sure. In the past he's played better alongside a SG who can hit spot up shots and doesn't need the ball to be effective, like Hersey Hawkins and Brent Barry. With those guys, GP could control the ball and find them for spot up 3's. GP's with Pierce now, who will need the ball in his hands, to drive and create his own shots. GP has clashed with those types of SG's before, especially Kobe Bryant. I have a feeling that he's not going to work with Pierce either, but apparently they are tight...so maybe not. Still, I think it is worth a shot for Boston considering what they gave up. He can still give you 15 & 6, and if he doesn't fit then he leaves at the end of the year anyway. 

As for Banks, I don't think he's worth getting upset about. He could potentially be a good PG one day, but I don't see it. He's athletic and a good defender, but he has a shoot first mentality and a streaky shot. Best case scenario, Bobby Jackson ? :whoknows:


----------



## rebelsun

> Originally posted by <b>Scinos</b>!
> As for Banks, I don't think he's worth getting upset about. He could potentially be a good PG one day, but I don't see it. He's athletic and a good defender, but he has a shoot first mentality and a streaky shot. Best case scenario, Bobby Jackson ? :whoknows:


Pretty good comparison, but I would say Banks is more explosive and may be a better defender. Jackson is the more balanced player, though. 

I think Marcus' best-case scenario is closer to a Baron/Wade type than to a Bobby Jackson. Whether Marcus realizes that potential is another story.


----------



## kawika

> Originally posted by <b>Scinos</b>!
> 
> 
> Everyone knows he's lost a step, but I still think he could be effective in the right situation. Is that team Boston, i'm not so sure. In the past he's played better alongside a SG who can hit spot up shots and doesn't need the ball to be effective, like Hersey Hawkins and Brent Barry. With those guys, GP could control the ball and find them for spot up 3's. GP's with Pierce now, who will need the ball in his hands, to drive and create his own shots. GP has clashed with those types of SG's before, especially Kobe Bryant. I have a feeling that he's not going to work with Pierce either, but apparently they are tight...so maybe not. Still, I think it is worth a shot for Boston considering what they gave up. He can still give you 15 & 6, and if he doesn't fit then he leaves at the end of the year anyway.



I'd tend to agree. Until the Celtics acquired Chucky Atkins they managed to go through almost two seasons without a real point guard, which hurt PP's game tremendously. (You could argue that giving up Kenny Anderson, whatever his shortcomings, for essentially nothing and no-one to replace him, hurt Pirece more than losing Walker).

But Payton has always struck me as being a "difficult" guy. Easier to put up with that when you're one of the very best in the game than in the twilight of a career. I think it's an open question how he meshes there, but it being a one year (or even less) commitment, worth the gamble, probably.

Actually, I think the real reason Ainge did this was part of a master plan to sign GP, Pippen, Barkley & Ewing, so we could read for the next eight months how the Celts are a "mortal lock" to win it all with four future Hall-of-Famers on their roster.


----------



## Lynx

> Originally posted by <b>futuristxen</b>!
> And what is Danny Ainge doing helping the Lakers?


.....to help Lakers get pass Celtics 16-championship overall in the NBA history.


----------



## Seanzie

I saw this trade, and the first thing I thought was, "Oh jesus, old GP for the new GP."

See, while most of you guys compare Banks to Wade or Davis, I can actually see him developing into a poor man's version of Payton in his prime. They're both fast, good defenders (well, GP's elite, but that's besides the point), and score first PGs with a cocky swagger. I think that Ainge pulled the trigger on this deal because A) he has Delonte West, and B) he hopes this can put Boston in the playoffs, giving Celtics fans a reason to watch their games. 

While I'm not crazy about West, I think he could potentially be a great roleplayer. However, he has far less star potential than Banks, and I would have to say that this trade makes absolutely no sense in the long run for Boston. GP is a question mark at this point, and Fox is an old, diminished, spot-up shooter. You get a first round pick (albiet a lottery protected one), which COULD potentially net the Celts someone solid, but giving up Atkins, Banks and Mihm - who would've been MUCH better off in the East - is just silly.


----------



## agoo

> Originally posted by <b>Scinos</b>!
> Ok, my take...I loved GP as a Sonic, but i'm very happy the Sonics traded him when we did. We got Ray Allen, Flip Murray and Luke Ridnour for him (and Mason) and now he's traded for Atkins, Mihm and Banks. :uhoh:
> 
> Everyone knows he's lost a step, but I still think he could be effective in the right situation. Is that team Boston, i'm not so sure. In the past he's played better alongside a SG who can hit spot up shots and doesn't need the ball to be effective, like Hersey Hawkins and Brent Barry. With those guys, GP could control the ball and find them for spot up 3's. GP's with Pierce now, who will need the ball in his hands, to drive and create his own shots. GP has clashed with those types of SG's before, especially Kobe Bryant. I have a feeling that he's not going to work with Pierce either, but apparently they are tight...so maybe not. Still, I think it is worth a shot for Boston considering what they gave up. He can still give you 15 & 6, and if he doesn't fit then he leaves at the end of the year anyway.
> 
> As for Banks, I don't think he's worth getting upset about. He could potentially be a good PG one day, but I don't see it. He's athletic and a good defender, but he has a shoot first mentality and a streaky shot. Best case scenario, Bobby Jackson ? :whoknows:


Pierce is at his best when he gets the ball in the post or coming off a pick and either shooting or taking it to the rim. He's at his worst when he's got the ball in his hands all the time (see last season). While he is very good going to the rim and he should do it a few times a game, he's not good enough at breaking down his man to routinely get open shots or get to the rim. Having Payton to feed him off picks will be a big help for him this season.


----------



## hobojoe

> Originally posted by <b>agoo101284</b>!
> 
> 
> Pierce is at his best when he gets the ball in the post or coming off a pick and either shooting or taking it to the rim. He's at his worst when he's got the ball in his hands all the time (see last season). While he is very good going to the rim and he should do it a few times a game, he's not good enough at breaking down his man to routinely get open shots or get to the rim. Having Payton to feed him off picks will be a big help for him this season.


While I think this trade may help the Celtics a little bit now, I think it's going to hurt them in the future and it's not worth the little increase in wins they will have this season. I just can't see Payton and Pierce coexisting all that well. Payton will probably help the Celtics make the playoffs this season, but I don't think they're a serious contender in the East unless Pierce really elevates his game tremendously rather than declining like he has the past couple of seasons. 

I think Pierce is going to help Payton a lot more than Payton is going to help Pierce. Pierce is still going to be receiving the enormous attention he from the defenses he got last season, Payton isn't going to change that. However having relatively free roam in Boston will certainly benefit Payton, and having the defense spread by Pierce on the perimeter will enable Payton to play the penetrating game that he's made a career of. I could certainly see Payton having a 16-6 season or so, especially since he really has no backup point in Boston, I'm guessing Delonte West is going to have to play the minutes there.


----------



## rebelsun

Lack of depth? They actually have a very solid bench right now:

Payton/West
Davis/Welsch/Allen
Pierce/Fox/Jones
Raef/Big Al/Walter
Blount/Perkins/Brown/Stewart


----------



## HKF

The Laker backcourt defensively will be the best one in the NBA with Marcus and Kobe. 

Two of my favorite players sharing a backcourt together. RebelSun, I am right with you dude. The Laker fastbreak is going to be fun to watch. 

Hopefully, Divac can teach Chris Mihm something, anything.


----------



## SheriffKilla

good deal for the celtics
they got the better immediate deal
payton and pierce should help them get to the playofffs
and after next season they take 10 mil off their payroll
because of fox and payton
the lakers on the other hand get atkins for another 2 years with over 4 mil for each year

than mihm for another 3 years with around 4 mil per year

i heard this trade

chucky atkins
brian cook
devean george
kareem rush
caron butler
and
cash or mihm or medvedenko

for 

j.kidd

if lakers can pull that one off
and if kidd plays good after surgery and stay healthy
i see the lakers up in the top 5/6 in the west


----------



## Damian Necronamous

> Originally posted by <b>fjkdsi</b>!
> good deal for the celtics
> they got the better immediate deal
> payton and pierce should help them get to the playofffs
> and after next season they take 10 mil off their payroll
> because of fox and payton
> the lakers on the other hand get atkins for another 2 years with over 4 mil for each year
> 
> than mihm for another 3 years with around 4 mil per year
> 
> i heard this trade
> 
> chucky atkins
> brian cook
> devean george
> kareem rush
> caron butler
> and
> cash or mihm or medvedenko
> 
> for
> 
> j.kidd
> 
> if lakers can pull that one off
> and if kidd plays good after surgery and stay healthy
> i see the lakers up in the top 5/6 in the west


That trade wouldn't happen because it totally depletes the Lakers' depth. It would not be worth it. Like I said in a thread in the Lakers forum, unless the deal is Grant, Butler, Cook and a first for Kidd and Collins the Lakers aren't going to do it.

That trade would only happen if Kidd was furiously pushing for a trade to the Lakers and the Nets could find no other better trading partners.


----------



## Pan Mengtu

WTF? 6 players for Jason Kidd? That's insane.


----------



## dominikan_balla1

yeah that is pretty insane ...specially with caron butler in it...thats just stupid


----------



## bballlife

> Originally posted by <b>lastlaugh</b>!
> Who wrote this article Bill Simmons?
> He is the biggest homer on the face of the earth. He has no objectivity. He doesn't know his stuff. He doesn't know anything but blind favoritism for Boston teams.


No way, his favorite teams are Boston ones but he is always objective and fair. He has a great passion for his favoritie sport, basketball.

He knows his stuff, and is a very good writer.

You need to give him a second chance.


----------



## Wiggum

Oh come on. Marcus Banks better than Dwyane Wade? Marcus Banks the "New GP"?


----------



## P2TheTruth34

I think that a few of you have severely overrated Marcus Banks. I admit he has all the talent that is needed to be one of the top PGs in the league if not the best. Offensively, he can drive by anyone but is sometimes out of control (expected from a rookie), but just doesn't seem to make other players better at all. But, he has some weaknesses that need a lot of help. His mid-range shot isn't bad but I would never call it "deadly". Or at least it certainly wasn't last year. Also, him saying he's the best player on the court might just be talk because although he didn't really seem nervous, he didn't seem to play extremely confidently such as players many of you are comparing to. I mean he and Wade were in the same class, I really don't think it is fair for Wade for that comparison at all. Plus, if the Celtics were that thrilled with Banks they wouldn't have done the deal because Ainge loved him in college and now all of a sudden trades him. It has to be because of the coaches. I realize the other motives for the Celtics (cap space), but if management was confident he'd be able to be a future starter we wouldn't have done the deal. The comparisons of B-Day and some of the other players at this point are extremely far fetched. He could be a really good player but I doubt he'll be a star of those guys magnitudes.


----------



## lastlaugh

I don't need to give him any chance. He has never been fair or objective . I disagree with you completely.





Marcus Banks now will have a chance to play in the NBA with a real coach. Something he didn't have last year.







> Originally posted by <b>bballlife</b>!
> 
> 
> No way, his favorite teams are Boston ones but he is always objective and fair. He has a great passion for his favoritie sport, basketball.
> 
> He knows his stuff, and is a very good writer.
> 
> You need to give him a second chance.


----------



## STING

Damian Necronamous, you aren't far off at all with your arguments, but when you say Caron Butler was an emerging star you forget that he was touted as the next "Paul Pierece" coming into the draft. Since his rookie season his Fg%, 3point%, and Free throw perecentages have all dropped significantly. Even though he hasn't gotten as much playing time, when he does play he looks to me like he's gotten worse since his rookie year.


----------



## STING

> Originally posted by <b>fjkdsi</b>!
> good deal for the celtics
> they got the better immediate deal
> payton and pierce should help them get to the playofffs
> and after next season they take 10 mil off their payroll
> because of fox and payton
> the lakers on the other hand get atkins for another 2 years with over 4 mil for each year
> 
> than mihm for another 3 years with around 4 mil per year
> 
> i heard this trade
> 
> chucky atkins
> brian cook
> devean george
> kareem rush
> caron butler
> and
> cash or mihm or medvedenko
> 
> for
> 
> j.kidd
> 
> if lakers can pull that one off
> and if kidd plays good after surgery and stay healthy
> i see the lakers up in the top 5/6 in the west


The Nets would definitly trade the best point guard in the game for 4 scrubs and Caron Butler


----------



## STING

> Originally posted by <b>Jordan4life_2004</b>!
> 
> 
> Damn. If the Celtics win 50 gameS i'll let Kobe rape me.


:laugh: :laugh:


----------



## SheriffKilla

the lakers would still have depth after the trade
and im afraid the nets WOULD trade "the best point guard"(always considered b.diddy the best but ok)
who has a long contract, and just had knee surgery that ****ed over careers before


----------



## STING

Feel free to explain how the Lakers would still have depth after this trade.


----------



## jokeaward

> Originally posted by <b>STING</b>!
> Feel free to explain how the Lakers would still have depth after this trade.


The return of Bryon Russell, Horace Grant, Ron Ha-

Okay, maybe not that good.

Sean Rooks, Britton Johnsen, Derrick Dial...


----------

