# Should they?



## lakerman83 (Aug 26, 2003)

Should the warriors deal Nick the Quick to Portland for some of their players or should they keep him? It is said that he is un happy with the trade and would demand one by december.


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## ssmokinjoe (Jul 5, 2003)

Which players are you suggesting?


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## lakerman83 (Aug 26, 2003)

Bonzi Wells, Damon Stoudamire, Ruben Patterson, Dale Davis, Jeff McInnis. They are all tradable for Nick.


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## Scinos (Jun 10, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>lakerman83</b>!
> Should the warriors deal Nick the Quick to Portland for some of their players or should they keep him? It is said that he is un happy with the trade and would demand one by december.


It sepends on what players are involved. I wouldn't give NVE up for any of their bad contracts like RP or DA.


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## Scinos (Jun 10, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>lakerman83</b>!
> Bonzi Wells, Damon Stoudamire, Ruben Patterson, Dale Davis, Jeff McInnis. They are all tradable for Nick.


Well, none of those guys would be worth it...

Bonzi has a huge contract, and the Warriors are already set at the 2/3 positions with J-Rich and Dunleavy. Damon has a huge contract and a drug problem. Patterson has off-court problems, and a long, overpaid contract. Dale Davis is on the downside of his career, he is not a good player. McInnis hasn't done anything since his 14ppg, 6apg season with the Clippers.

I don't think any combination of those guys are worth giving up Van Exel for. They are either overpaid, or not good players.


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## themasterfulsoyking (Aug 22, 2003)

Where's it cited that he's "unhappy" with the team?


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## ssmokinjoe (Jul 5, 2003)

I'm not sure if you'd be able to find an actual quote from Van Exel saying that he's "unhappy" with the Warriors. But it has been reported that he had not contacted the team or the coach or the players of Golden State since the trade. This is more of an indication that he's unhappy about being traded away from the Mavs.


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Scinos</b>!
> Well, none of those guys would be worth it...Bonzi has a huge contract...


If Bonzi has a huge contract (3 years left @ around 23 mil total) whats Nick's deal (3 years @ 36 mil)? IMO, Bonzi is also the better player coming into his prime, but of course he plays a position where the W's already have guys they're presumably wanting to give significant PT to in JR and Pietrus so as to accurately evaluate what they've got. If Nick wont play for them, Damon's deal would line up nicely and he's got one less year to go...

STOMP


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## Ben1 (May 20, 2003)

It does seem like NVE is not too pleased with the trade. I expect him to play for Golden State in the end, though.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>STOMP</b>!
> 
> 
> If Bonzi has a huge contract (3 years left @ around 23 mil total) whats Nick's deal (3 years @ 36 mil)?


NVE's third year is a team option, however. At least, that's what I've seen reported. Supposedly, he was so happy in Dallas, he was willing to make the third year a team option (if that's true, think he feels betrayed now?).

In any case, I certainly wouldn't characterize Wells' contract "huge." It's a very good contract for his ability level. Wells isn't a superstar, and he doesn't have a max contract. As a shooting guard, he's a great weapon, however (due to having Anderson, the Blazers have been playing Wells out of position at small forward, which has hurt his effectiveness).

That being said, I don't think either team does this. Wells is younger than Van Excel and, if returned to shooting guard, more valuable. Damon Stoudamire comes off the books in two seasons, so the Blazers don't *have* to dump him in trade. The Warriors don't need a bunch of flotsam and jetsam gumming up their financial status and Wells is unlikely to make the Warriors better over NVE in the next couple years, especially with the glut of perimeter players the Warriors have.


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## MightyReds2020 (Jul 19, 2002)

What about NVE, Dampier, JRich for Sheed Wallace and Bonzi Wells?


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>MightyReds2020</b>!
> What about NVE, Dampier, JRich for Sheed Wallace and Bonzi Wells?


Better first trade St. Jean to Portland, so that they'll have a GM willing to give away their talent almost for free like that.


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## Scinos (Jun 10, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Minstrel</b>!
> Better first trade St. Jean to Portland, so that they'll have a GM willing to give away their talent almost for free like that.


lol, yeah..that's not a bad trade.

I don't think that trade is too bad, although it favours the Warriors. I guess Portland wouldn't do it because they would be taking on more long term contracts when they are reducing payroll.


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## Starbury03 (Aug 12, 2003)

Warriors should trade NVE for McInnis and Patterson, McInnis is a very good point he played great when he was on the clippers, he was the reason why the clipers did so bad last year he held the tem together


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## antibody (Apr 4, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>MightyReds2020</b>!
> What about NVE, Dampier, JRich for Sheed Wallace and Bonzi Wells?


Portland would never deal their best two players for that group. I hope you were joking with the addition of the smiley face. Sheed and Bonzi have more talent than those guys.


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## MightyReds2020 (Jul 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>antibody</b>!
> 
> Portland would never deal their best two players for that group. I hope you were joking with the addition of the smiley face. Sheed and Bonzi have more talent than those guys.


I was joking.

But I don't think it's as bad as some of you might think. I'm a firm believer that Portland won't give Sheed a max extension next summer, if some other teams (ought to have some right? since Sheed is still one of the elite PFs) willing to take a gamble, Sheed is a goner. In another word, Portland might lose Sheed while getting nothing in return next summer. It's all possible.

J.Rich has just as much upside as Bonzi Wells although he's not proven. J. Rich could become Anderson's backup before taking over in a year or two (clears the log-jam, another plus), provided he pans out. You have your future set with Randolph, Woods, and J.Rich.

The addition of NVE and Damp should keep Portland in playoffs hunt next few years.

The bottomline is I don't think Portland is a serious title contender this year. A Portland team with NVE, Damp, JRich is not much worse than a team with Sheed and Wells. That being said, the Warriors need to give a little more to make it realistic.


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## Ballin101 (Nov 4, 2002)

Well if it's money the Warriors are looking for, which it seems they are, then a NVE and Evan Eschmeyer for Kurt Thomas, Charlie Ward, and Travis Knight trade would benefit both teams. New York gets the point they want, and the Warriors get rid of Eschmeyer's huge deal and have expiring contracts in Ward, Knight, Avery Johnson, Adonal Foyle, Pepe Sanchez, and Calbert Cheaney. I don't know how much money that is, but I'm sure it's enough for the Warriors to resign Foyle and Cheaney, accomodate their undoubtedly high draft pick, and still have enough money left over to go after a marquee free agent. Personnel wise it sucks, but there isn't going to be a quick fix for the Warriors. This, in my opinion, is a decent start. Sure I would love to get Rasheed Wallace and Bonzi Wells, but we all know that isn't going to happen.


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>MightyReds2020</b>!
> I'm a firm believer that Portland won't give Sheed a max extension next summer, if some other teams (ought to have some right? since Sheed is still one of the elite PFs) willing to take a gamble, Sheed is a goner. In another word, Portland might lose Sheed while getting nothing in return next summer. It's all possible.
> 
> J.Rich has just as much upside as Bonzi Wells although he's not proven.


JR may have as much upside as Bonzi, but I doubt he reaches it. Though they are both listed about the same size, side by side they don't seem close as JR seems closer to 6'3. He's got some obvious holes in his game and a very questionable attitude too. As a Portland fan who lives much of the year in SF and has seen plenty of both, I'd much rather have Bonzi.

There are not going to be many max options out there for Sheed. Without researching, I think its Denver, Utah, and the Clippers who'll be in position to make offers, though who knows if any actually will. We're all entitled to our opinions and all, but I don't think that the guys who matter (Portland's management) have neccessarily made up their minds as to what they'll do with him. It likely depends on what others would offer in S&T senerios that will be presented to them at the end of the upcoming season. Doesn't it make sense that if he's to leave, Wallace would rather be moved to a good team in a S&T for max $, rather then a young rebuilding team in an outright FA max signing? 

Having avoided any major injuries throughout his career, there are probably 5-6 good years left in his 29 year old body. I could see Portland retaining him if the reports about his supposive character flaws are grossly overstated as many Blazer insiders (Coach Cheeks on down) would have us believe. Most of his teammates, past and pressent, profess to really like him, and none have ever bad-mouthed him to the best of my knowledge. That he doesn't like to speak to the press gives him a very bad public rep, and blurs the lines for us mere fans as to where he really stands in the Portland organization's eyes.

What will happen with him is far from set in stone IMO.

STOMP


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## RunTMC (May 11, 2003)

There's some serious homeritis going on around here. Bonzi Wells is ridiculously overrated. To say he has more potential than JR is ridiculous. He's been in the league 5 years going on 6, is 5 years older than JR, and they put up very similar numbers last year. JR is unquestionably more physically talented. STOMP, how can you possibly say JR is close to 6'3? He's 6'6, Bonzi is 6'5. And cmon, saying JR is the one with the questionable attitude? That's rather hilarious coming from a Portland fan.


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## colossus735 (Jul 18, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Ballin101</b>!
> Well if it's money the Warriors are looking for, which it seems they are, then a NVE and Evan Eschmeyer for Kurt Thomas, Charlie Ward, and Travis Knight trade would benefit both teams. New York gets the point they want, and the Warriors get rid of Eschmeyer's huge deal and have expiring contracts in Ward, Knight, Avery Johnson, Adonal Foyle, Pepe Sanchez, and Calbert Cheaney. I don't know how much money that is, but I'm sure it's enough for the Warriors to resign Foyle and Cheaney, accomodate their undoubtedly high draft pick, and still have enough money left over to go after a marquee free agent. Personnel wise it sucks, but there isn't going to be a quick fix for the Warriors. This, in my opinion, is a decent start. Sure I would love to get Rasheed Wallace and Bonzi Wells, but we all know that isn't going to happen.


Good trade idea of adding Evan w/ NVE and dump him to NY. Those three we would get back will get 2 contract that will end this year and K.Thomas will end the year after. Leaving a bunch of cap room for the Warriors to spend on free agents. All they would need to do now is work something out to get rid of Damp. and maybe Popeye and they will be set.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>RunTMC</b>!
> There's some serious homeritis going on around here. Bonzi Wells is ridiculously overrated. To say he has more potential than JR is ridiculous.


Personally, I don't think any GM would prefer to have J-Rich instead of Bonzi Wells.

That's my opinion as a fan of both teams, Portland and Golden State.

Wells played out of position, at small forward, the last couple of seasons, as Portland wanted to start both Derek Anderson and Bonzi Wells. As a shooting guard, Wells is a nightmare for defenders at his position...he's far too big for them, and able to post them up nearly at will, while not sacrificing any quickness.

He can slash, post up and has a legit enough outside shot to force defenders to respect it, even though its not great. His defense is passable.

Richardson, meanwhile, hasn't shown much improvement on offense or defense. I think if he doesn't have a break-out year, the Warriors aren't going to be too interested in extending him.


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## Starbury03 (Aug 12, 2003)

Minstrel like the avatar


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

Thanks.


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>RunTMC</b>!
> JR is unquestionably more physically talented. STOMP, how can you possibly say JR is close to 6'3? He's 6'6, Bonzi is 6'5. And cmon, saying JR is the one with the questionable attitude? That's rather hilarious coming from a Portland fan.


I've seen JR sulking on the court to the point where he doesn't seem involved on either end more then a few times. He skipped a practice last year because he didn't feel like attending, and has publicly spoken to the fact that he and Muscleman don't get along. Tack on his ugly conviction this summer for putting the head of the mother of his child through a wall and I really don't know what you find so hilarious about the questionable character comments from my last post. 

How can I say JR is 6'3? Well it's just a guess as I never saw his barefoot measurement like I did with Wells, but when he's standing next to other off guards, he's always shorter. Players can list whatever height/weight they want to, and just like so many other players in the league, I don't think that Jason's is accurate. Check him out standing next to others this season and tell me if I'm wrong...

As many have pointed out before, stats can be misleading, but the most important one to most Bball fans is usually Ws. In Portland's 4-0 sweep on the Warriors last season, Bonzi went for 23 pts on 52% with 5 Rbs and 5 Assts, while JR went for 18 pts on 46%, with 3.5 Rbs and under 3 assists. I'm not sure where JR's unquestionable physical talent is getting lost in the mix, but Bonzi has outplayed him and his team has won. I think JR's poor D (which doesn't show up in his stats) is the biggest difference between the two. IMO, he's one of the worst defending starting 2s in the league. Of course he's still very young and could/should improve this and other aspects of his game, but I think he's pretty clearly behind Wells as of now in the eyes of most non-homers  

STOMP


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

Well the feel good offseason stories are coming in. These two articles address character questions on each guy, and promise better behavior from each... we'll see I guess.

JR- http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/chronicle/archive/2003/10/06/SPG3P25HBS1.DTL

Bonzi- http://www.oregonlive.com/sports/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/sports/1065268975154691.xml

STOMP


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