# Are we underrated?



## jokeaward (May 22, 2003)

Everyone talks about the Mavs being/were a severly underrated 60-win team, but how about our 50 win team?

Okay, we haven't played a game with our new lineup, but what can't we do? Rebound, shoot, pass, slash, D it up, and have our all-around monster.

Questionable: Blocks maybe
Depth, I guess, but we have a 6th man candiate, and time. And what was so deep about the Lakers that smashed every team in '01?


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## jokeaward (May 22, 2003)

Not even sheefo's thoughts? Ouch.


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## jftwolves (May 16, 2003)

I think we are. Everyone talks about the Lakers, Mavs, Spurs and Kings being better than us. I think we are at least a 3 seed if not a 2. Here are my comparisions:

Wolves Mavs
PG - Cassell Nash I like Sammy but I think its even.
SG - Spree Finley I'll take Spree
SF - Wally Najera? Wally
PF - KG Dirk KG
C - Kandi Bradley Kandi

4-1 Wolves.

Wolves Kings
PG - Sam Bibby I think Bibby is overrated. Again I'll take Sammy.
SG - Spree Christie Spree
SF - Wally Peja Peja
PF - KG Webber KG
C - Kandi Divac/Miller Kings

3-2 Wolves

Wolves Spurs
PG - Sam Parker Cassell now, Parker future
SG - Spree Manu Spree
SF - Wally Bowen Wally for offense only
PF - KG Duncan Duncan's awesome but I'll take KG
C - Kandi Rasho Kandi

4 - 1 Wolves

Wolves Lakers
PG - Sam Payton Payton
SG- Spree Kobe Kobe
SF - Wally Fox Wally
PF - KG Malone KG
C - Kandi Shaq Shaq when healthy

3 - 2 Lakers

Bottom line (and this my be a homer talking) but I give the Wolves a two seed with a chance at the 1.


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## oblivion (Aug 6, 2003)

I don't know if we are underrated. most still call us 5th best in the west. it is hard to say how the team will gel with so many new faces. We look great on paper, but so did the Clippers last year.
But looking at jftwolves comparisions, i think i would rather have Nash, Bibby, and Parker over Cassell.

We should also look at the bench players too when comparing:
Lakers- George, Fisher
Kings- Jackson, Miller
Spurs-Rose, Hedo
Mavs- Van Exel, Lafrentz
Wolves-Hudson, ?
Most of those teams have a better bench than us
I would put us behind the lakers and kings. but ahead of Mavs, and on par with the spurs.
However, if Kobe is at trial come playoff time, that could change things.
I think we have a very good chance to win the Midwest if all goes well.


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## Jmonty580 (Jun 20, 2003)

If i were to give any team the best in the west title it would have to be the Lakers. After them I think its up for grabbs. I see the T-wolves as being right there with the Spurs, Mavs, and Kings, and i think anyone one of these teams can come out of the west. If the Lakers dont gell well then its really anyones ball game. Also i still feel that whatever team makes it out of the west will win the title again, so the T-wolves got just as good a chance as anyother team in the west.


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## sheefo13 (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>jokeaward</b>!
> Not even sheefo's thoughts? Ouch.


sorry my net didnt work for a little!
ok. a couple days ago i was on the dallas forum and they felt with the adition of jamison they have past up the wolves. 
wow was i ticked.
first of all cassell last was averaging more points, fg percentage, rebounds and was awfully close to his 3 pt%. now cassell turns into a passer and hudson becomes the spark of scoring off the bench. o yea do the mavs even have a bench after trading NVE? bell cant be a 1 man bench
they felt that raef was more of a big man than olowokandi. i told em that raf and dirk are guards trapt in big bodys. kandi will learn a lot from kg, mchale, and flip.
the thing that made me the maddest was that they said FINLEY WAS BETTER THAN SPREWELL.OMG he had one season better than sprewell because sprewell knew that the knicks didnt have a chance at anything but a lottery pick.
ok, wally and jamison are 2 diffrent players. jamison is more of a banger and wally is a shooter. last year the way we stopped him by putting a guy that is bigger than him in gary trent. so maybe the 4 times we meet dallas trent may get the start or get in early off the bench. 
also i was mad when i heard this statement. dirk is better than kg. then they end up going back to the playoff series. that was 2 years ago. kg was mvp of the all star game, 2 in the running for league mvp. what was dirk. kg on the first team all nba, dirk no where to be found. kg on first team or second (i dont remeber) all-defense, and where was dirk? o yea, he doesnt play defense!

o yea, they had the nerve to say we had no bench. ok, if they dont rember that troy hudson was 2 in the running for 6th man 2 years or 1 year ago. trent is also very solid, ervin johson is also a big body that over his career has averaged more rebounds than points. so he knows his role. ebi can also be a spark off the bench by playing defense, madsen helps by sitting on the bench and go crazy over by flip. one more free agent, if it would be lenard, jackson, stepania, bell, s.jackson. we just add more depth. 
did i mention that we have the best all around player in the league?


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## sheefo13 (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>oblivion</b>!
> I don't know if we are underrated. most still call us 5th best in the west. it is hard to say how the team will gel with so many new faces. We look great on paper, but so did the Clippers last year.
> But looking at jftwolves comparisions, i think i would rather have Nash, Bibby, and Parker over Cassell.
> 
> ...


ok we are under rated, now that the mavs have traded NVE, they have no bench, lafrentz doesnt come off the bench,
miller will start for the kings now that webber is out and that gets them off to a bad start, because miller hasnt proven himself in the west. so he is just another pollard. 
hedo will start for the spurs, since jackson will more than likely sign else where, like utah or something.
did any of those guys off the laker bench do anything.
other than bobby jackson, we have the best bench player in the league, stepania or pat burke maybe would all be good aditions for the big man postion here.


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## INTELLECT (Nov 22, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>jftwolves</b>!
> I think we are. Everyone talks about the Lakers, Mavs, Spurs and Kings being better than us. I think we are at least a 3 seed if not a 2. Here are my comparisions:
> 
> Wolves Mavs
> ...


bwahahahha this cat has got to be JOKING. Point one that's not the mavs starting lineup


Nash
Fin
Dirk
Jamison
Raef

I guess you forgot how dirk OWNED KG in the playoffs the year the mavs swept yall huh? 33 points and 16 boards a game while kg shot like 43 percent. DIRK has KG'S number. HE AVERAGED 34 POINTS IN THE REGULAR SEASON AGAINST HIM LAST YEAR AND SCORED NO LESS THAN 32 POINTS IN THE FOUR MEETINGS. Spree is not seeing fin and jamison will abuse wally. Man you wolves fans are hilarious


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## sheefo13 (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>jftwolves</b>!
> I think we are. Everyone talks about the Lakers, Mavs, Spurs and Kings being better than us. I think we are at least a 3 seed if not a 2. Here are my comparisions:
> 
> Wolves Mavs
> ...


did u forget we have hudson off the bench?
also sam is becoming a very underrated player since he has joined the wolves, this guy is pretty good a defense and wants the ball in the clutch and is a vocal leader out there. he has 2 rings and will help us get another. the only team that beats us in the starting lineup is the lakers, and they will more than likely not gell


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## INTELLECT (Nov 22, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>sheefo13</b>!
> 
> did u forget we have hudson off the bench?
> also sam is becoming a very underrated player since he has joined the wolves, this guy is pretty good a defense and wants the ball in the clutch and is a vocal leader out there. he has 2 rings and will help us get another. the only team that beats us in the starting lineup is the lakers, and they will more than likely not gell



the lakers won't "gel" but the 3 new starters that the wolves added will gel and lead the wolves to the title. LOl that's hilarious. This thread is funny. It's gonna be fun watching twolve fans be mad disappointed when their team loses in round 1 again


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## sheefo13 (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>INTELLECT</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> the lakers won't "gel" but the 3 new starters that the wolves added will gel and lead the wolves to the title. LOl that's hilarious. This thread is funny. It's gonna be fun watching twolve fans be mad disappointed when their team loses in round 1 again


are u aware why they wont gel, malone went there to win a ring and break a rercord, thats mostly about what he himself wants, payton same consept.
why do u always go back to the same playoff series and act like dallas did something in the playoffs?
kevin garnett is the most all around player in the game, no argument. im sick of all those dallas fans that think kg was owned by dork nowitski.
dallas will never win a championship for the simple reason is that they do not have a good big man. 
jamison can not hang with kg, dork cant hang with kg, and raef cant hang with kg.
another thing is that dallas doesnt play defense.dont even come at me with that bs that howard is a good defender because he hasnt proven himself in the NBA.
lets go over the lineups

TIMBERWOLVES
pg-cassell/ hudson/ wilks
sg- sprewell/??? (gill, glover, lenard)/ hoiberg
sf-szserbiak/ ??? ( bell, j.jackson, s.jackson)/ ebi
pf- garnett/ trent/ madsen
c- olowokandi/ ???(stepania, burke)/ johnson

mavs
pg- steve nash/ jiri welsh/ marquis daniels
sg- michael finley/ raja bell?/ tariq abdul-wahad
sf- antwan jamison/ edwarndo najera/ josh howard
pf- dork nowitski/ danny fortson/ chris mills
c- raef lafrentz/ shawn bradley

wolves
pg- wolves
sg- wolves
sf- mavs
pf-wolves
c-wolves
if the wolves sign 1 more free agent, we are way ahead of the mavs. 
face it... MAVS HAVE NO DEPTH


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>INTELLECT</b>!
> 
> 
> bwahahahha this cat has got to be JOKING. Point one that's not the mavs starting lineup
> ...


KG put up better numbers in this past season's playoffs, and KG's numbers were as good as Dirk's in the '02 series, if you look at all-around performance. Dirk may have scored more points, but this was more a product of his entire team being on fire at once than Nowtizki actually schooling KG one-on-one. 

You're getting ahead of yourself, Mavs fan. Dallas has no backup PG for when Nash gets tired, and still can't stop the Wolves. Minnesota actually has a bit of balance to their roster, and come playoff time, the Mavs are going to have to learn how to D up - or be sent home early. 

You guys could hardly beat the Blazers or the Webberless Kings last season!


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## INTELLECT (Nov 22, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>blabla97</b>!
> 
> 
> KG put up better numbers in this past season's playoffs, and KG's numbers were as good as Dirk's in the '02 series, if you look at all-around performance. Dirk may have scored more points, but this was more a product of his entire team being on fire at once than Nowtizki actually schooling KG one-on-one.
> ...



BWAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHA. you're joking right? fin and nash put up 46 points a game wally and billups put up 42 points a game. The difference in the series was dirk shooting 53 percent from da field 89 from da line and like 73 percent from 3 land while putting up 33 points 16 boards and 3 steals. Kg on the other hand shot 43 percent from da f ield put up 24 points and 19 boards. Dirk outscored him. HE TORCHED HIM. he ABUSED him and that's the REASON YALL LOST THE SERIES. ya own coach said that next to shaq DIRK is the hardest player for the wolves to guard. until kg figures out a way to stop dirk yall can lay it down. And jamison is ten times the player that wally is. Finley is better than spree and nash is better than cassell. kandiman sux. raef is decent no big deal there.


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## jokeaward (May 22, 2003)

HHAHAHA

U thought what jftwolves said was after the Jamison trade! U pwned urself! LOl

Anyway, Dallas is a very good offensive team. They can definitely outscore the Wolves even if the wolves play well.

Dallas and MN split.

We are the more well-rounded team. Sprewell is the best need-filler, and our other acquisitions are great. 

I'll take Hudson on Jiri Welsch.


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>INTELLECT</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> BWAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHA. you're joking right? fin and nash put up 46 points a game wally and billups put up 42 points a game. The difference in the series was dirk shooting 53 percent from da field 89 from da line and like 73 percent from 3 land while putting up 33 points 16 boards and 3 steals. Kg on the other hand shot 43 percent from da f ield put up 24 points and 19 boards. Dirk outscored him. HE TORCHED HIM. he ABUSED him and that's the REASON YALL LOST THE SERIES. ya own coach said that next to shaq DIRK is the hardest player for the wolves to guard. until kg figures out a way to stop dirk yall can lay it down. And jamison is ten times the player that wally is. Finley is better than spree and nash is better than cassell. kandiman sux. raef is decent no big deal there.


The ONLY reason Dirk scored as much as he did was was because the Wolves weren't doubling Dirk up. Finley was that hot. Dirk can abuse anybody when he gets single coverage. I would think that as "INTELLECT", you could understand such a simple concept and not just repeat the same argument you made the day before. 

If you're going to use that argument strategy, I recommend using the copy and paste functions that are built into your web browser. You could save yourself quite a bit of time!


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## RP McMurphy (Jul 17, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>sheefo13</b>!
> why do u always go back to the same playoff series and act like dallas did something in the playoffs?


Dude, maybe you should wait until your team gets out of the first round before you say that the Mavs have done nothing in the playoffs.


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## sheefo13 (Jul 13, 2002)

ok the reason the wolves ddnt get anywhere is because kg was a one man team. 
now we are a more well rounded team. the oonly reason that trade with NVE and jamison happened was because cuban was so desprate to make a trade and make the fans happy, the team has no depth what so ever now, come playoff time, this team will be tired.


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## RP McMurphy (Jul 17, 2003)

I agree with you that the Mavs trade was terrible, but I don't think it was bad enough to make the Mavs worse than the Wolves (who will have plenty of team chemistry problems of their own).

The Mavs don't have any all-stars on their bench but who does? Najera is a good no-nonsense banger off the bench, and Shawn Bradley even though he sucks at least he's better than Ervin Johnson and Mark Madsen. He allows the Mavs six extra fouls thus letting them play more aggressive defense. Josh Howard will get some spot minutes off the bench too, and I expect Chris Mills to be traded for a role player. I'd take the Mavs bench over the Wolves bench which has one good sixth man (Troy Hudson) plus a bunch of scrubs. If anyone will be getting tired in the playoffs it is the Wolves' forwards.

At this point I'd say the West is like this
1. San Antonio
2. Los Angeles
3. Sacramento
4. Dallas
5. Minnesota
6. Phoenix
7. Houston

If anything the Wolves are OVERRATED because people don't realize how bad their chemistry situation will be next year with these trades.


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## sheefo13 (Jul 13, 2002)

how are we overrated when everyone and their mom is saying that we arent better than anyof the other teams, u said it your self, the mavs are better,we are in 5th position, i still dont get how u can say we are overrated
artest fan, next time try and make some sense...ok?


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## RP McMurphy (Jul 17, 2003)

A lot of people say you guys are a Top 4 team. In my mind you're overrated because some people put you in Top 4 and some people put you fifth while NO ONE underrates you by putting you 6-8.


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## sheefo13 (Jul 13, 2002)

the reason we are at 4 is because thats exactly where we were last year, we have also defenetly improved our team


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## KG_And1 (Feb 19, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>sheefo13</b>!
> the reason we are at 4 is because thats exactly where we were last year, we have also defenetly improved our team


Good call sheefo. 

We were the 4th best team last season and we are still being dogged like this? We are certainly underrated. We add two All Stars (Sam is certainly an All Star despite not being in an All Star Game) and improved, yes improved our Center spot with Kandi. Rasho is as soft as a cottonball, Kandi will give us the inside presence that we really never had.

Until the Lakers show that they're #1 after the 03-04 season, they are still #5 in the Western Conference Powers. We haven't played a game together yet and so haven't the Lakers, Mavs, Spurs, and Kings...all of them have acquired and lost some key players, so just shut up and wait till the season starts....when the Wolves win the Championship.


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## INTELLECT (Nov 22, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>blabla97</b>!
> 
> 
> The ONLY reason Dirk scored as much as he did was was because the Wolves weren't doubling Dirk up. Finley was that hot. Dirk can abuse anybody when he gets single coverage. I would think that as "INTELLECT", you could understand such a simple concept and not just repeat the same argument you made the day before.
> ...


kid you know nothing about bball do you? the wolves even SWITCHED to zone to try and help kg with dirk and he still torched him. T hey tried doubling with billups and sometimes with joe smith. NOTHING WORKED. even with help kg can't stop dirk.


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## INTELLECT (Nov 22, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>sheefo13</b>!
> ok the reason the wolves ddnt get anywhere is because kg was a one man team.
> now we are a more well rounded team. the oonly reason that trade with NVE and jamison happened was because cuban was so desprate to make a trade and make the fans happy, the team has no depth what so ever now, come playoff time, this team will be tired.



dog billups put up 22 a game in that series. wally put up 20. Kg shooting 43 percent is what cost yall that series. matter of fact this PAST YEAR is the first year kg has actually played with heart and consistent throughout the playoffs. Kg has 2 CAREER 30 POINT PLAYOFF GAMES. just 2. He can't take over games offensively when the team needs him to


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## sheefo13 (Jul 13, 2002)

INTELLECT, u need to drop it, that was 2 years ago, this is now, if the wolves played the mavs last year we would of defenetly made it past the first round


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## Dragnsmke1 (Jul 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>sheefo13</b>!
> INTELLECT, u need to drop it, that was 2 years ago, this is now, if the wolves played the mavs last year we would of defenetly made it past the first round


Isnt that what Portland and Sac-town said?


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>INTELLECT</b>!
> 
> 
> kid you know nothing about bball do you? the wolves even SWITCHED to zone to try and help kg with dirk and he still torched him. T hey tried doubling with billups and sometimes with joe smith. NOTHING WORKED. even with help kg can't stop dirk.


One question for you, green and blue shaded Troll...

How in the heck is a friggin 7-foot three point shooter going to be stopped by a friggin zone? Dirk friggin eats zones for lunch! He might just be the toughest player to contain with a zone in the entire league!

You honestly think the Wolves pulled out their zone to better contain Dirk? 

 

If you can honestly warp your thought process to that extent in order to rationalize your biased arguments, I might as well beat my head against the wall. 

Please, continue spamming the general NBA board with your pro-Mavericks filth. Eventually people will get tired of you, you'll get the point, and cease your trolling ways...


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Dragnsmke1</b>!
> 
> 
> Isnt that what Portland and Sac-town said?


Last year, Portland chose to play Dallas over Minnesota. And that was last year's T'Wolves. 

As for Sacramento, you don't honestly think people here are stupid enough to forget that the Mavs could hardly beat Sacramento minus Chris Webber?


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## Dragnsmke1 (Jul 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>blabla97</b>!
> 
> 
> Last year, Portland chose to play Dallas over Minnesota. And that was last year's T'Wolves.
> ...


so what was all the " the Kings should still destroy the Mavs with no CWebb" talk. Nobody knows if Cwebb woulda changed the out come cause all the regular season games were decided on last second shots. Did we forget that?


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Dragnsmke1</b>!
> 
> 
> so what was all the " the Kings should still destroy the Mavs with no CWebb" talk. Nobody knows if Cwebb woulda changed the out come cause all the regular season games were decided on last second shots. Did we forget that?


Yeah, you're probably right. 

Teams are pretty much as good without their best player as they are with their best player. 

The Mavs probably could have beaten the Kings without Nash, Nowitzki, and Finley. They're just that good!

GET OUT OF HERE!!! :upset:


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## LionOfJudah (May 27, 2003)

The Wolves have improved, but enought to do anything in the playoffs is still questionable. I've never was a big Cassel fan. He doesn't have the scoring ability (IMO) to jack up shots like he does. 
Spree filled a void that was as open as seats at a Cavs game. I just wonder how well he does being aged and having to take a back seat to KG and maybe even to Sam on some nights. 
Kandi.... He was a clipper, what else can I day. He might blow up, but I'm thinking he's just going to fizzle.

But with all this I still don't see how they are better than a team with anyone named Tim Duncan, Kobe Bryant, or Dirk. 
Mavs may not have a great bench, but they have 4 players who will play 90% of the game anyways. The Spurs look like a younger Kings team with all the depth they have. And the Lakers have 4 future Hall of Famers. So I rank the Wolves 4th, for now. Who knows come late next season they could be #1 if the chemistry is there. But I doubt it, I see one of the other 3 teams mentioned at #1 in the west.


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## kaniffmn (Jul 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>blabla97</b>!
> 
> 
> Yeah, you're probably right.
> ...


You tell him man...cuz seriously, there is something wrong with mavs fans for hatin on the wolves so much. it sounds like pure jealousy to me because they couldn't get the players they wanted this offseason. i agree with sheefo too about doing anything to make a deal so fans would have reason to be excited for the upcoming year. he didn't want to stand by and watch the t-wolves, lakers, spurs, and kings be talked up on sports center every day about how much better our teams have gotten this offseason. so he went out and got his team some publicity. i'm not convinced at all by this trade that it makes the mavs better than a 60-win team...i see the wolves switching places and winning 60 and mavs 50. but we'll see.


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## LionOfJudah (May 27, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>kaniffmn</b>!
> 
> 
> You tell him man...cuz seriously, there is something wrong with mavs fans for hatin on the wolves so much. it sounds like pure jealousy to me because they couldn't get the players they wanted this offseason. i agree with sheefo too about doing anything to make a deal so fans would have reason to be excited for the upcoming year. he didn't want to stand by and watch the t-wolves, lakers, spurs, and kings be talked up on sports center every day about how much better our teams have gotten this offseason. so he went out and got his team some publicity. i'm not convinced at all by this trade that it makes the mavs better than a 60-win team...i see the wolves switching places and winning 60 and mavs 50. but we'll see.


Its just returning the favor. Theres an avid Twolves promoter that posts something about how the wolves are better any time theres a post about the mavs, no big deal... but its on our board.
He just makes himself look bad though, so we don't worry about it.


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## jokeaward (May 22, 2003)

dirty dirk is my white boy dawg, boi he came first in mvp voting, nizzol, torched wolves and won all 4 games last yerr he wins every game with his skilzzz

The fact is we didn't bow to the Lakers. We finished ahead of them and they shot our brains out for the first, got thumped in the second, were supposed to win the 3rd, then took the next 3 because we had a 1 1/2 man squad, and that half wasn't so great anyway. (Wally, and Rasho was nearly N/A) Goons like AP won't help KG (and Hud) win every game? Who knew? He started for us and was cut by the Bucks.


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