# Game 23: Denver Nuggets @ Cleveland Cavaliers



## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

*@*









*Team Records*

*Denver Nuggets* 12-10 *@* *Cleveland Cavaliers* 11-9

*Time:* 8:00 PM ET Thursday, December 15, 2005
*TV:* TNT
*Location:* Quicken Loans Arena, Cleveland, Ohio

*Denver Nuggets*






































*Projected Denver Nuggets Starting Lineup*
*PG* - 24 Andre Miller 6-2 205 3/19/76 6 Utah 
*SG* - 7 Greg Buckner 6-4 205 9/16/76 6 Clemson 
*SF* - 15 Carmelo Anthony 6-8 230 5/29/84 2 Syracuse 
*PF* - 6 Kenyon Martin 6-9 240 12/30/77 5 Cincinnati 
*C* - 23 Marcus Camby 6-11 230 3/22/74 9 Massachusetts

*Denver Nuggets Reserves*
11 Earl Boykins PG 5-5 133 6/2/76 7 Eastern Michigan 
56 Francisco Elson C 7-0 235 2/28/76 2 California 
21 Eduardo Najera F 6-8 220 7/11/76 5 Oklahoma 
3 DerMarr Johnson GF 6-9 201 5/5/80 5 Cincinnati 
43 Linas Kleiza F 6-8 245 1/3/85 R Missouri 
8 Earl Watson PG 6-1 195 6/12/79 4 UCLA

*Denver Nuggets Players Stats:*










*Denver Nuggets Head Coach:*








*George Karl*

*Out of game due to Injuries:*
Earl Boykins (probable)
31 Nene Hilario FC 6-11 260 9/13/82 None 
9 Bryon Russell GF 6-7 225 12/31/70 Long Beach State

*Cleveland Cavaliers*






































*Projected Cleveland Cavaliers Starting Lineup*
*PG* - 20 Eric Snow 6-3 205 4/24/73 10 Michigan State 
*SG*- 32 Larry Hughes 6-5 184 1/23/79 7 Saint Louis 
*SF* - 23 LeBron James 6-8 240 12/30/84 2 None 
*PF* - 90 Drew Gooden 6-10 242 9/24/81 3 Kansas 
*C* - 11 Zydrunas Ilgauskas 7-3 260 6/5/75 8 None

*Cleveland Cavaliers Reserves*
44 Alan Henderson PF 6-9 240 12/2/72 10 Indiana
33 Luke Jackson SF 6-7 215 11/6/81 1 Oregon 
19 Damon Jones PG 6-3 190 8/25/76 7 Houston 
24 Donyell Marshall F 6-9 230 5/18/73 11 Connecticut 
29 Mike Wilks PG 5-10 180 5/7/79 3 Rice

*Cleveland Cavaliers Players Stats:*










*Cleveland Cavaliers Head Coach:*








*Mike Brown*

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Cavs Fans And Nuggets Fans Get in! :banana: 

Cavs fans you are more than welcomed to post your feelings/insight/thoughts etc about the game here! Good luck to you. :cheers: 

Nuggets fans! This game is going to be on TNT this thursday. So everyone tune in for the game. The Nuggets should try and run Miller/Watson/Boykins on pick n rolls and exploit the Cavs defense. The Cavs can only score this season. They play below average defense. The Nuggets need to keep an eye on James. However I rather have him score all his team points and the Nuggets win. So far thats the new trend of late for the Cavs. This will be a good game for the Nuggets to play after coming off a win against the Heat and Bobcats on the road. Melo has been playing great offense and defense. Hope to see him matched up with Lebron.

Let's go Nuggets! :clap: :cheers: :biggrin: :banana: :cheers:


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## darth-horax (Nov 21, 2005)

Let's be real. This is the game everybody in the nation wants to see.

Ever since LBJ and CA came in the league, it's been nothing but hype. Now, with 2.5 years in the league, both players are coming into their prime. With CArmelo's recent surge,and LeBron's constant play, this game will be the highlight of both of their careers to date.

Look at both clubs. Both teams are very, very similar. Scoring wise, they're almost mirrors of each other.

This will be a close game, and I Hope that Kenyon is ready to go...if not, Drew Gooden might give us fits in the post. He'd abuse our smaller post players like Kleiza and Najera. Drew Gooden is very underrated in this league, but he reminds me of a less intense version of K-Mart...or a poor man's CArlos Boozer.

I'm looking forward to this game, and if we were healthy, Cleveland would stand no chance.


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## NugzFan (Jul 26, 2002)

IF we were healthy...


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

Good post Horax.

Also Denver needs to keep in mind the Cavs just got embarassed at home by the Hawks. So I'm sure the Cavs will come out against the Nuggets with a sense of purpose.

However after watching the Cavs some this season it doesn't seem to me they play well from behind. If the Nuggets can play from the front it will help our chances.


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## Timmons (May 25, 2005)

darth-horax said:


> Let's be real. This is the game everybody in the nation wants to see.
> 
> Ever since LBJ and CA came in the league, it's been nothing but hype. Now, with 2.5 years in the league, *both players are coming into their prime*.


Yeah, but they are only 21 CA and 20 LBJ so I would say they have a long way to go for their PRIME! :biggrin: 


Should be a great game. Melo just dumped 42 and LBJ dropped 39 last night. 

After the Bobcat game Scott Hasting talked to Melo about going at LeBron.

Melo said the right thing: It's a Nuggets / Cavs game not him and LeBron. And he's going for a W.

Nuggs should be able to pull off the win. Cavs are cold right now and teams seem to get right against Denver (probably because Denver's D has been horrible recently). So Denver must keep the Cavs cold and not allow Larry Hughes to get off his cold spell and Keep D. Marshall in check at the 3 line with good perimeter D from either Kenyon or Melo and Camby must shut down Gooden!

I think Denver has a great shot to blow the Cavs out...but Denver hasn't been doing that lately...


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

> Melo said the right thing: It's a Nuggets / Cavs game not him and LeBron. And he's going for a W.


I agree with you regarding Melos statement. Seems he has matured, and moved on from the Lebron/Melo hype. They are both great players in their own right. The Nuggets need to come out with a lot of engery. We need Camby to step it up. And the Nuggets as a whole team need to do a much better job rebounding.


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## NugzFan (Jul 26, 2002)

Tobin 73 EIRE said:


> Yeah, but they are only 21 CA and 20 LBJ so I would say they have a long way to go for their PRIME! :biggrin:
> 
> 
> Should be a great game. Melo just dumped 42 and LBJ dropped 39 last night.
> ...


for some reason we just cannot blow teams out. partly because our offense cannot sustain long periods of good play (no matter how poor the D...and the cavs are a good defensive team) and partly because we are hurting like crazy. count how many lesser teams have beaten us...then add how many lesser teams we barely beat. not to mention how many blown leads weve had. its easy for teams to comeback on us because we can go through 6+ min stretches without scoring.


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## Busta (Jun 25, 2005)

Hopefully the team shares the ball well, utilize their matchups, and most importantly play defense. And it looks like they've finally realized the fact that this is Melo's team and aren't trying to do their own things, and play off of him offensively, and he's been smart enough not to force things and to trust in his team when he has nothing. 

I like the way they're playing, now Kmart just has to get into the flow and get healthy and I think we can become or join that elite group that people thought we would be


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

Busta said:


> Hopefully the team shares the ball well, utilize their matchups, and most importantly play defense. And it looks like they've finally realized the fact that this is Melo's team and aren't trying to do their own things, and play off of him offensively, and he's been smart enough not to force things and to trust in his team when he has nothing.
> 
> I like the way they're playing, now Kmart just has to get into the flow and get healthy and I think we can become or join that elite group that people thought we would be


Good post Busta. I agree with what you wrote. Seems the team has started to really trust in Melo, and themselves. I hope it continues tonight in Cleveland.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

Karl doesn't expect Boykins to play.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

Cleveland center Zydrunas Ilgauskas was limited in practice and said it is a "game-time decision" whether he will play after sitting out one game because of a sprained right knee.


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## AndriuskeviciusFuture (Nov 18, 2005)

Whats up Nuggets fans...

I want to wish everyone good luck tonight, it's going to be a great game. Melo vs. LBJ can we ask for more? The Cavs have been struggling as of late and we really need a win here. Our Coach has been questioning our effort as of late so hopefully our guys respond. We are playing at home which has been preety good to us this year and the Nugs are just 4-7 on the road. Hopefully Z can play because I think the key for the Cavs is shutting down Camby. When he is in full force on the blocks he is unstopable. Good luck I'll probably post a couple times tonight during the game to give you guys some crap if my boys are winning.

P.S. Melo and Bronin their prime...try another 4 or 5 years...that's scarey.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

AndriuskeviciusFuture said:


> Whats up Nuggets fans...
> 
> I want to wish everyone good luck tonight, it's going to be a great game. Melo vs. LBJ can we ask for more? The Cavs have been struggling as of late and we really need a win here. Our Coach has been questioning our effort as of late so hopefully our guys respond. We are playing at home which has been preety good to us this year and the Nugs are just 4-7 on the road. Hopefully Z can play because I think the key for the Cavs is shutting down Camby. When he is in full force on the blocks he is unstopable. Good luck I'll probably post a couple times tonight during the game to give you guys some crap if my boys are winning.
> 
> P.S. Melo and Bronin their prime...try another 4 or 5 years...that's scarey.


Hey!

Jump in the game thread any time you want to tonight. Should be a fun game to watch, and a battle as long as the Cavs can play more of a team game. Seems to me when Lebron goes of for huge point totals the Cavs struggle. If I was the Nuggets coach I would tell my team to try and shut everyone else down stay on their shooters at the 3, and let Lebron score all the points. Seems to me that is the formula right now against the Cavs. Plus the fact the Cavs are woeful at the PG position. Miller/Watson should be able to dribble drive in to the lane all night. Cavs forward Lebron and The guy from KU seem really slow on rotations on D IMO. A very suprising trait by the Cavs this year with their defensive rep coach. However the Cavs have a ton of potential and most likely dont want to be shown up again in Gund Arena. After their embarssing loss to the sad state of affairs they call the Hawks. I excpect this game to be close all the way. Who knows what Cavs team we will see tonight.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

I'm curious if Karl is going to put Buckner or Melo on Bron ? Or switch it up through out the game.


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## Kuskid (Aug 18, 2004)

Am I the only person that thinks Lyndon B. Johnson every time they see LBJ somewhere? Anyways, Melo said the right thing, let's see how well he follows through. The Cavs can't win if Bron doesn't score a ton. We do better when Melo scores, but if he went for 25/6/4 on like 15-16 shots and the W, I'd be ecstatic. We need him to score, it just doesn't have to be 40.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

Kuskid said:


> Am I the only person that thinks Lyndon B. Johnson every time they see LBJ somewhere? Anyways, Melo said the right thing, let's see how well he follows through. The Cavs can't win if Bron doesn't score a ton. We do better when Melo scores, but if he went for 25/6/4 on like 15-16 shots and the W, I'd be ecstatic. We need him to score, it just doesn't have to be 40.


True the Cavs need Lebron to score, but when he has been scoring so much nobody else gets invloved for the Cavs. So in turn the Cavs have been losing more since James has been going crazy with his scoring. Earlier in the season when his scoring was lower and his teammates were more inloved the Cavs were very good.


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## Kuskid (Aug 18, 2004)

Bottom line, though, is that when someone on a team scores 52 points on less than 30 shots, and dishes out 7 assists, his team shouldn't lose.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

Kuskid said:


> Bottom line, though, is that when someone on a team scores 52 points on less than 30 shots, and dishes out 7 assists, his team shouldn't lose.


That may be the bottom line, yet they still loss.

Also this is the second time LBJ scored 50 points and loss. So it's happened before. By the way this is no way is to diminish Lebron at all. Im simply going by their performance as a team. When Lebron scores less, and his temmates are more involved the Cavs were winning. Since James has been scoring like crazy the Cavs have been losing. This isn't fiction, check out his stats per W's and L's.


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## Kuskid (Aug 18, 2004)

Understood, I actually agree. I'm just saying that there's no excuse for losing a game when a teammate puts up a statline like that (moreso that one game than lately). What I mean is Bron's led the team in scoring for all but two games this year, they rely on him more than we rely on Melo, and Melo needs to recognize that.


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## master8492 (Mar 4, 2005)

Picking on the Nuggets on this one... Depends on if Martin and the center on Cleveland with long name plays or not.

Nuggets 102
Cavs 98


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## Kuskid (Aug 18, 2004)

102-94 Nuggets. Melo leads Denver with 30/5/3. Lebron plays great, but the rest of the team struggles to score.


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## AndriuskeviciusFuture (Nov 18, 2005)

No Camby!!! Out with a sore pinky!

This helps...


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## Timmons (May 25, 2005)

Tobin 73 EIRE said:


> Nuggs should be able to pull off the win. *Cavs are cold right now and teams seem to get right against Denver (probably because Denver's D has been horrible recently). * So Denver must keep the Cavs cold and not allow Larry Hughes to get off his cold spell and *Keep D. Marshall in check at the 3 line* with good perimeter D from either Kenyon or Melo and Camby must shut down Gooden!
> 
> *I think Denver has a great shot to blow the Cavs out...but Denver hasn't been doing that lately*...


I should start taking calls with a fake Jamacian accent. 

Denver should have blown Cleveland out of the water. Melo should didn't have anything going. His cherrypickin' still worked, but his shooting was poor. LeBron outshined melo...

Camby was sorely missed. Elson played like Garbage. Good move by Karl to take Watson out of the game when he was RED HOT! :biggrin: 

Denver lets another one slip away... :curse: 

94-85... :curse:


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

Just a terrible game by the Nuggets. What else can you say? You all saw how bad we looked.

All this proves to me is that the Nuggets are going to be an average team this season. We win in Miami and lose to the Orlando Magic. We win in Charlotte and lose in Cleveland. See a pattern here? Pretty much an even record. It just shows me the Nuggets aren't ready mentaly to go the next level this year. We had a great stretch last year, but our second half season schedule was very favorable to the Nuggets.

One thing I noticed tonight as well is that free throws were a problem for the Nuggets.

I wonder what Karls message is going to be after another disappointing loss.

Tonight proves another thing. The Nuggets need a real shooter, not another big. If we had a player that could hit shots from the outside our chances at winning this game would of been much better. Problem is we don't have anyone. Watson and Buckner hit some shots, but its not consistent.

Kenyon Martin was probably the bright spot for the Nuggets tonight. To bad the other Nuggets didnt have his pep in their step. Melo was dreadful from the free throw line. Kind of suprising since he's an 82% free throw shooter. Also Melo had no lift going to the basket. He had so many shots blocked. And missed a bunch of lay ups.

Also with Melo getting in to foul trouble it forced Miller from a distributor in to our number one option for scoring on offense. Unfortunate for him because he started out the game very well getting assists to his guys and making a few buckets. He still ended up with 9 assists, but I counted at least 7 wide open shots he got guys that all bricked.

What was everyones thoughts about the game?


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## Kuskid (Aug 18, 2004)

Can't say much else besides that. They've got a choice right now: 500 basketball and maybe an 8 seed (I say Minny finishes at or around 500), or start playing like they're capable of playing every night and winning 50+ games. Just at a loss for words right now. Even after the Nene injury, I thought this could be a special season. Now, barring a quick impact trade, I don't see that happening.


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## Timmons (May 25, 2005)

AJ23 I totally agree with you. Same goes to Kuskid.

I thought Denver had a real shot just like at the start of last season to get out and do some damage. Tonights game just proves how lousy the shooting is. 

8/23 - Melo
5/10 - KMart
4/11 - Miller

17/44. Just not good from our stars. But the thing that bothers me the most is Melo finished with 23, but easily could have had 3-4 more free throws out of the 5 he missed. He should go 10/12 or 12/12 every night. Plus add to that the 5 layups he blew and that's 36 points. Melo consistantly leaves 10 points minimum every night on the floor.

Get some hops and finish strong and stay mentally focused when shooting LAYUPS!

Another bad loss to a bad team. Denver definitley .500 bound again...


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## cpawfan (Jun 20, 2004)

:curse: I just got home and the VCR ate my tape (yes, I'm still using old technology)

So how did Kenyon look and play? I see the 4 assists, but why only 10 shots? What types of shots did Kenyon take?

:curse:


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## Timmons (May 25, 2005)

/\ Kenyon had a few nice put backs, but he was forced out of his range on his jumpers and really was not effective. He tried to make a couple drives and lost the ball once and on the other hit an AND1 layup, but missed the FREE THROW.

I wish KMart would just sit the season out if he needs to so he can get healthy...


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## cpawfan (Jun 20, 2004)

Tobin 73 EIRE said:


> /\ Kenyon had a few nice put backs, but he was forced out of his range on his jumpers and really was not effective. He tried to make a couple drives and lost the ball once and on the other hit an AND1 layup, but missed the FREE THROW.


Was it the Big Z factor that was forcing him out? Where were his assits coming from? How was his defense?



> I wish KMart would just sit the season out if he needs to so he can get healthy...


I wish the Nuggets would give the fans an idea of what is really going on. Was the surgery more severe than initially reported? Is Kenyon just not responding well to the surgery? Is it purely an issue of pain management? Will a couple of months of rest and rehab help?


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## RoddneyThaRippa (Jun 28, 2003)

I had to listen to this game on the radio since my power went out. Disappointing loss. 

I think it's time for everyone to accept some things about Kenyon: 

1)Jason Kidd was one of those players that really elevates his teammates play. I think this happened with Kenyon and his expectations were too high. He's not the same player without Kidd. 

2)We gave up too much for him: 90 million and three first round draft picks. I don't think Kenyon even warranted the 90 million, given questions about his knee and the fact that he wasn't really a dominant force. Throw on the three first round draft picks and you really begin to wonder what Kiki was thinking. 

3)Kenyon isn't the low post, half court threat we need. He can score points in the low post, but isn't a low post scorer, if you know what I mean. At the time we traded for Kenyon, it was obvious that we really needed a low post threat. Nene was beginning to develop into one, but apparently Kiki didn't want to wait for him to come around. If we aren't running the ball, Kenyon's effectiveness is really minimized. 

4)Kenyon hasn't hit the boards or gotten serious about defense. I wasn't thrilled about the acquisition of Kenyon, but I was ecstatic about adding a player of his caliber to the boards and the defensive end. From game one, it seemed like he didn't really want to hit the boards like he did in New Jersey, nor did he really want to play serious defense. Kenyon was known mostly as a weakside defender in New Jersey but he hasn't really done that here. His man defense has been acceptable, but he's just not the force I expected him to be. Our interior defense should be along the lines of Detroit's, but Camby has done all the work in there since Kenyon got to Denver. If Kenyon grabbed 10 boards a game and played great defense, he'd be worth that 90 million to this team.

5)The organization hasn't been honest about the injury situation. During the offseason the organization made it sound like Kenyon would be brand new, and Kenyon partially blamed his poor play last year on his knee (although he didn't use it as an excuse). I really wish Kiki would've told people what was really up with his knee, because at this point you've gotta question if Kenyon's knee will ever be straight. Some of these questions have already been asked: Is this just a pain issue? Is there still structural damage? Is it degenerative? Would it help him to sit out for a while? Does he just have to fight through the pain? It is fairly apparent that Kenyon is hurting out there, but we've received no explanations as to why. Personally, I don't think the organization owes the fans every single bit of information they have, but given that Kiki acted like Kenyon was brand new, I think we were misled. 

All in all, I think Kenyon was a poor business decision. There were a lot of great free agents available that summer and when things fell through with Manu he panicked. Kiki has put this team on the fast track, and we've suffered for it. I would have rather seen us develop the young guys and make accurate decisions regarding team needs. Instead, Kiki through money at a guy we didn't necessarily need. Carmelo's contract is coming up next year and so is Nene's. It would be extremely disappointing to see Nene go for free - it would mean wasting two top ten draft picks. At this point, if Kenyon's knee isn't as bad as it seems, I'd like to see the Nuggets give him the time he needs to recover and trade him. If his knee really is a problem and we can't get much for him, I'd still prefer for us to move his contract elsewhere. Otherwise, he needs to start living up to expectations.


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## cpawfan (Jun 20, 2004)

RoddneyThaRippa said:


> I had to listen to this game on the radio since my power went out. Disappointing loss.
> 
> I think it's time for everyone to accept some things about Kenyon:
> 
> 1)Jason Kidd was one of those players that really elevates his teammates play. I think this happened with Kenyon and his expectations were too high. He's not the same player without Kidd.


He isn't the same player because of the injury. Sure Kidd helped him, but not that much considering that Kenyon only scored 2 PPG less w/o Kidd.




> 4)Kenyon hasn't hit the boards or gotten serious about defense. I wasn't thrilled about the acquisition of Kenyon, but I was ecstatic about adding a player of his caliber to the boards and the defensive end. From game one, it seemed like he didn't really want to hit the boards like he did in New Jersey, nor did he really want to play serious defense. Kenyon was known mostly as a weakside defender in New Jersey but he hasn't really done that here. His man defense has been acceptable, but he's just not the force I expected him to be. Our interior defense should be along the lines of Detroit's, but Camby has done all the work in there since Kenyon got to Denver. If Kenyon grabbed 10 boards a game and played great defense, he'd be worth that 90 million to this team.


We've gone through this before and you're still wrong. Kenyon wasn't known for his weakside defense, he was known for his man defense. Specifically his ability to defend all 5 positions and to switch for large periods of a game to defend top wing players like TMac. In his time in Denver, opposing PF's have been held in check while Kenyon is in the game. Even in the playoffs, Duncan scored most of points against Nene or Camby.

The boards are a direct result of the knee as it is obvious that he isn't exherting himself in jumping for rebounds. He boxes out but that's it. I'm certainly not defending him, just pointing out that there is a reason.



> 5)The organization hasn't been honest about the injury situation. During the offseason the organization made it sound like Kenyon would be brand new, and Kenyon partially blamed his poor play last year on his knee (although he didn't use it as an excuse). I really wish Kiki would've told people what was really up with his knee, because at this point you've gotta question if Kenyon's knee will ever be straight. Some of these questions have already been asked: Is this just a pain issue? Is there still structural damage? Is it degenerative? Would it help him to sit out for a while? Does he just have to fight through the pain? It is fairly apparent that Kenyon is hurting out there, but we've received no explanations as to why. Personally, I don't think the organization owes the fans every single bit of information they have, but given that Kiki acted like Kenyon was brand new, I think we were misled.
> 
> All in all, I think Kenyon was a poor business decision. There were a lot of great free agents available that summer and when things fell through with Manu he panicked.


Kiki didn't panic after Manu, rather he went after Manu first because he wanted to address both SG and PF that summer. He had plenty of flexability and assests to still trade for Kenyon if Manu had signed. I fault Kiki for not using the time he bought with the 3 draft picks traded to sign anyone else.



> Kiki has put this team on the fast track, and we've suffered for it. I would have rather seen us develop the young guys and make accurate decisions regarding team needs. Instead, Kiki through money at a guy we didn't necessarily need. Carmelo's contract is coming up next year and so is Nene's. It would be extremely disappointing to see Nene go for free - it would mean wasting two top ten draft picks. At this point, if Kenyon's knee isn't as bad as it seems, I'd like to see the Nuggets give him the time he needs to recover and trade him. If his knee really is a problem and we can't get much for him, I'd still prefer for us to move his contract elsewhere. Otherwise, he needs to start living up to expectations.


I see no indications that decisions about Nene have anything to do with Kenyon. It is purely a matter of value. The Nuggets to this point don't believe Nene is worth Tyson Chandler money and Nene's agent does. Now you can argue that Nene may not want to resign with Denver because of Kenyon and Camby on the roster, however, I believe his agent only cares about getting the most money, not his happiness.

Also, Nene can't go for free this summer unless the Nuggets let him. He will be a restricted free agent so the Nuggets can match any offer (i.e. let other teams negotiate for them) or worst case, Nene can play 1 season for the QO and then be an unrestricted FA the following summer. Based upon his injury history, I'm confident that Nene will want a long term contract and the Nuggets can offer him 1 more year than any other team.


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## RoddneyThaRippa (Jun 28, 2003)

cpawfan said:


> He isn't the same player because of the injury. Sure Kidd helped him, but not that much considering that Kenyon only scored 2 PPG less w/o Kidd.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I understand what you're saying but we'll probably never come to a consensus about Kenyon. I'm unwilling to make all these excuses for the guy, and I think we disagree as to what kind of player he was before he came here. Hopefully, he gets healthy and returns to his all star level but I doubt it will happen.


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