# The official who in the hell are we going to trade thread



## jvanbusk (Jun 9, 2002)

Prime candidates:
Chucky Atkins
Corliss Williamson
Elden Campbell
Mehmet Okur (if we decide not to roll the dice after the season)

Joe said the trade may be significant so don't rule out:

Tayshaun Prince
Rip Hamilton (only in the case of a definate upgrade i.e. Iverson, Pierce)

There are three players that are 99.9% safe:
Ben Wallace
Darko Milicic
Chauncey Billups

Next order of business who will this trade be for?
Abdur Rahim and Wallace got traded for each other.
Looks like Fizer is headed to the Magic.

That rules those guys out.

Seattle is supposedly going to be active, along with a couple of other teams like the Magic.

What does significant mean? Significant meaning Chucky or Corliss or even more 'significant' one of the starters? Is it significant enough that we are players for someone like Kobe, Pierce, or Iverson?


----------



## froggyvk (Sep 12, 2002)

Whatever it is, Joe Dumars must be pretty proud of it. I'm reading yesterday on some TV show, he said he'd be shocked if there wasn't a trade, and that it "could be significant." Before, he said to "Stay tuned." When's the last time Joe Dumars ever hinted of a possible trade? Rip for Stack came out of nowhere, and I hadn't even heard Cliff for Sura before it happened. Now he's basically saying "We're going to make a trade in a week."

I still like Rashard Lewis, and Brent Barry as an expiring contract.


----------



## fear the fro (May 28, 2003)

I think the most likely is a Chucky for expiring contract trade. Here are some guys whose contracts are around the same value as Chucky's and expire after this year: Marcus Fizer (a deal with the Bulls has been talked about,) Darius Miles (I don't know if he can be traded again,) Jon Barry (that would be interesting,) Adonal Foyle, Stromile Swift, Chris Mihm, Jamal Crawford (yeah right,) Voshon Leonard (also no chance,) John Amaechi, Keyon Dooling, Joel Pryzbilla, Troy Hudson, Stacey Augmon, Lawrence Funderburke, Michael Curry, and Kwame Brown (also not going to happen.)

I don't know if Dumars is looking for a guy who can contribute and ben an expiring contract (which would rule out Pryzbilla, Funderburke, etc.) or how many of those guys will actually be available but I think that is the most likely type of trade we will make. Corliss for expiring contracts is also possible. 

I'd be really shocked to see Memo or Rip traded, a little less shocked to see Tayshuan gone (although we don't have a lot of other options at the 3) and I don't think Chauncey, Ben, or Darko (or our expiring contracts) are going anywhere.


----------



## fear the fro (May 28, 2003)

> I still like Rashard Lewis, and Brent Barry as an expiring contract.


Brent Barry isn't just a throw in. There's no way Seattle will give up 2 of their 3 best players without getting something significant in return.


----------



## DocBakk (Jan 3, 2003)

Don't we have two first round draft picks as well? With so many teams seemingly rebuilding I bet two first rounders might be inticing to some GM's. I feel that if it was going to be a minor trade Joe Dumar wouldn't have even talked about it in the media.


----------



## jvanbusk (Jun 9, 2002)

I posted this offer on the C's board, of course they didn't like it too much.

Detroit trades:
Rip Hamilton
Elden Campbell
Lindsey Hunter
Milwaukee Pick
Our own pick

Boston trades:
Paul Pierce

They didn't like that so, now I'm adjusting it to:

Detroit trades:
Rip Hamilton
Mehmet Okur
Zeljko Rebraca
Lindsey Hunter

Boston trades:
Paul Pierce
Mark Blount

I think the first trade is more fair, but I'd be willing to do the second one if there are no takers on Chucky/Corliss/Elden.

Our new lineup wouldn't look all that bad:

PG: Billups/Atkins
SG: Pierce/Sura
SF: Tayshaun/Ham
PF: Wallace/Corliss
C: Campbell/Blount




Also, I'm curious about what you guys think of a possible reuniting of Larry Brown and Eric Snow?


----------



## MLKG (Aug 25, 2003)

Rip is base year player since he signed a deal this summer which basically makes it almost impossible to trade him because of the way his salary is counted. I think it's safe to say he won't be traded just because it would be extremely difficult to find a good deal that would even be legal under the CBA.


----------



## jvanbusk (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mike luvs KG</b>!
> Rip is base year player since he signed a deal this summer which basically makes it almost impossible to trade him because of the way his salary is counted. I think it's safe to say he won't be traded just because it would be extremely difficult to find a good deal that would even be legal under the CBA.


Interesting. So you can't trust realgm in this situation?


----------



## MLKG (Aug 25, 2003)

Well, RealGM acounts for it, but it's just really hard to make the deals work and stay realistic.

Something about a base year salary counts 100% for one team and 50% for the other. I don't really understand it, I just know it's tough to do, you end up having to through a lot of players into the deal to make it work and then you get into issues of trading away your whole team and finding roster space.


----------



## froggyvk (Sep 12, 2002)

I don't think Chauncey is untradable. I like him as a player, but he's not a true point guard. He is too inconsistent. That said, I do hope we do not trade him, because he's got a great contract and is still young.

I also do not want Paul Pierce.

I guess if I have to choose a SF, I want Rashard Lewis or Shawn Marion. The Knicks traded for Marbury: "In an eight-player trade between the Knicks and the Phoenix Suns, Marbury, Penny Hardaway and Cezary Trybanski were dealt Monday to New York for Antonio McDyess, Howard Eisley, Charlie Ward, Maciej Lampe, the rights to Milos Vujanic and two first-round draft picks."

Let's see. Marion for Tayshaun Prince, Corliss Williamson, Chucky Atkins, the rights to the Greek, and our two 2004 first round picks? I guess we hope we can then trade Elden for an expiring, or leave him unprotected and he is taken by the Bobcats. Also, we have about $6 million right now, but after cap holds, $3 million. Can we assume the cap increases by about $3 million? We would definitely be living on the edge trading for a player without an expiring contract.


----------



## D.Spartan (Nov 21, 2002)

Detroit trades: SF TayShaun Prince (10.2 ppg, 5.1 rpg, 2.4 apg in 34.5 minutes) 
C Zeljko Rebracca (3.1 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 0.2 apg in 10.6 minutes) 
SF Corliss Williamson (8.9 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 0.7 apg in 19.4 minutes) 
SG Bob Sura (3.6 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 1.6 apg in 13.4 minutes) 
Detroit receives: SF Rick Fox (3.6 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 2.2 apg in 20.2 minutes) 
SG Kobe Bryant (21.5 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 4.3 apg in 36.4 minutes) 
Change in team outlook: -0.7 ppg, -4.7 rpg, and +1.6 apg. 

L.A. Lakers trades: SF Rick Fox (3.6 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 2.2 apg in 20.2 minutes) 
SG Kobe Bryant (21.5 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 4.3 apg in 36.4 minutes) 
L.A. Lakers receives: SF TayShaun Prince (10.2 ppg, 5.1 rpg, 2.4 apg in 54 games) 
C Zeljko Rebracca (3.1 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 0.2 apg in 21 games) 
SF Corliss Williamson (8.9 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 0.7 apg in 51 games) 
SG Bob Sura (3.6 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 1.6 apg in 51 games) 
Change in team outlook: +0.7 ppg, +4.7 rpg, and -1.6 apg. 

TRADE ACCEPTED

Due to Detroit and L.A. Lakers being over the cap, the 15% trade rule is invoked. Detroit and L.A. Lakers had to be no more than 115% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


You have been assigned Trade ID number 1502880

This line up could win a ring.


Billups/Chucky/Lindsey
Rip/Fox
Kobe/Ham
Ben/Darko
Memo/Elden


Lakers
Payton/Fisher
Tayshawn/Sura/Rush
George/Corliss
Malone/Walton/Cook
Shaq/Zelly

I guess it would be possible?


----------



## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>D.Spartan</b>!
> Detroit trades: SF TayShaun Prince (10.2 ppg, 5.1 rpg, 2.4 apg in 34.5 minutes)
> C Zeljko Rebracca (3.1 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 0.2 apg in 10.6 minutes)
> SF Corliss Williamson (8.9 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 0.7 apg in 19.4 minutes)
> ...


In our dreams...


----------



## D.Spartan (Nov 21, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>DetBNyce</b>!
> 
> 
> In our dreams...


I don't think it's a lopsided as it looks.
If Kobe opts out @ the end of the year, the Lakers get nothing.
The trade is basically 1/2 year of Kobe for 3 years of Tayshawn.
This would give us a better chance to win now.
In fantasy land it looks great because Tay get to play @home, The Lakers get some much needed depth with Corilss & Sura, & a real 7-footer to back up Shaq. Plus 2 expiring contracts.

If Kobe is happier being the star in Detroit maybe he wouldn't opt out of his contract. He is leaving a lot of money on the table if he does.


----------



## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>D.Spartan</b>!
> 
> 
> I don't think it's a lopsided as it looks.
> ...


That trade isn't _that_ lopsided, but I think it would take Okur too to make the deal work. Prince and Okur are a very good starting point, and might be enough to get Kobe from the Lakers(Maybe Detroit would have to trade a pick or two, who knows), but I strongly believe that Kobe will not be with the Lakers next year. The upcoming trial, he's already stated he's going to opt out of his contract several times, he doesn't want to be on the same team as Shaq, and I'm not so sure the Lakers really want him back with all the baggage that comes along with his stellar play.


----------



## Lope31 (Jun 11, 2002)

If anybody remembers a thread from about a year ago where I asked what player you would like to see in a Pistons jersey I hda Kobe as my main guy. He is one of my favourite players and up untill last year he WAS my favourite. I would LOVE if Kobe came to Detroit but wouldn't want to give up too much for him incase he signes elsewhere in the summer.


----------



## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

Little rumor I heard:

Sura, Atkins and Milwaukee #1 that we own to Milwaukee for Kukoc and D. Jones. Both Kukoc and Jones expire at the end of the year. Would give us about an additional $4 million.


----------



## DocBakk (Jan 3, 2003)

The Rockets are pissed at Francis and would rather have a clutch shooting PG that wouldn't mind taking a backseat to Yao (who cares about Francis with all the money the Houston is making off Yao) than a very skilled do it all PG. Plus giving them our two first rounders next year.

Plus two first round picks

Detroit trades: PG Chauncey Billups (17.6 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 5.2 apg in 36.0 minutes)
SG Bob Sura	(3.6 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 1.6 apg in 13.4 minutes)
Detroit receives: PG Steve Francis	(16.9 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 5.9 apg in 40.0 minutes)
Change in team outlook: -4.3 ppg, +0.1 rpg, and -0.9 apg.

Houston trades: PG Steve Francis	(16.9 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 5.9 apg in 40.0 minutes)
Houston receives: PG Chauncey Billups	(17.6 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 5.2 apg in 54 games)
SG Bob Sura	(3.6 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 1.6 apg in 51 games)
Change in team outlook: +4.3 ppg, -0.1 rpg, and +0.9 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED



laugh all you want, it's just a thought


----------



## froggyvk (Sep 12, 2002)

It's an interesting thought, but I don't think it's what Joe Dumars is looking at. I don't think he trades expiring contracts without getting one back in return. If the Rockets would take Chauncey and Corliss for Francis, and we can trade Atkins for Fizer, I could see something happening.

Francis-Hunter
Rip-Sura
Prince-Ham
Wallace-Fizer
Memo-Campbell-Darko

It puts us $6 million under the cap, or about $8 million (assuming the cap goes up by $2 million). Our bench will struggle, but they won't be out there that long when Rip never gets tired, Wallace is a beast and Francis plays a lot too.


----------



## agoo (Jun 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jvanbusk</b>!
> I posted this offer on the C's board, of course they didn't like it too much.
> 
> Detroit trades:
> ...


That second deal is even worse. Memo would be a rent-a-player in Boston, which would be ok if we were building to a championship, but we're not. The first offer isn't that good, but its better because of the picks. Paul Pierce isn't available though.


----------



## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

At this point and time I'd rather have Billups. Francis in my mind is clearly the better player, but I like how Chauncey fits with our team and add that fact that Billups does it at a bargain price.

Most people issues with Billups is that he isn't a pass first PG, well correct me if I'm wrong but when did Franchise become one.


----------



## froggyvk (Sep 12, 2002)

When's the trade deadline -- Tuesday?


----------



## jvanbusk (Jun 9, 2002)

I don't see how the first offer is really that bad, unless you severely underate Rip Hamilton. Using those picks you can move up in the draft and grab a Podkolzine or Perovic. But hey, no big deal. I just find it funny how many of the Boston fans seem to be itching to get rid of Pierce, and then faced with a viable trade their feelings change.


----------



## jvanbusk (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>DocBakk</b>!
> The Rockets are pissed at Francis and would rather have a clutch shooting PG that wouldn't mind taking a backseat to Yao (who cares about Francis with all the money the Houston is making off Yao) than a very skilled do it all PG. Plus giving them our two first rounders next year.
> 
> Plus two first round picks
> ...


I'm not going to laugh at all, because it is a good idea. I'd just rather have Billups on this team. That's not to say that I think he's a better player, though.


----------



## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

the pistons dont need to do anything. trade talk is great and i do it all the time but this team has what it takes to win a title in 3 years. they need to figure a way to keep okur and accelerate the developement of darko and delfino. other than that they are set.


----------



## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rainman</b>!
> the pistons dont need to do anything. trade talk is great and i do it all the time but this team has what it takes to win a title in 3 years. they need to figure a way to keep okur and accelerate the developement of darko and delfino. other than that they are set.


I agree. Unless of course we get something we can't refuse, which i don't expect.


----------



## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>DetBNyce</b>!
> 
> 
> I agree. Unless of course we get something we can't refuse, which i don't expect.


no doubt, i guess the one factor would be if the figured they couldnt match a spurs or nuggets for okur then a deal now would be a must. i think they can live without memo in the long run but in the short run it may hurt them.


----------



## Lope31 (Jun 11, 2002)

I would HATE to see Francis here. Especially at the expense of Billups! After what he did to Vancouver he can stay in Houston thanks.


----------



## froggyvk (Sep 12, 2002)

Detroit trades: SF TayShaun Prince (10.2 ppg, 5.1 rpg, 2.4 apg in 34.5 minutes) 
PG Chucky Atkins (6.3 ppg, 1.3 rpg, 2.4 apg in 18.7 minutes) 
SF Corliss Williamson (8.9 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 0.7 apg in 19.4 minutes) 
Detroit receives: SF Shawn Marion (18.9 ppg, 9.3 rpg, 2.5 apg in 41.0 minutes) 
Change in team outlook: -6.5 ppg, -0.3 rpg, and -3.0 apg.	

Phoenix trades: SF Shawn Marion (18.9 ppg, 9.3 rpg, 2.5 apg in 41.0 minutes) 
Phoenix receives: SF TayShaun Prince (10.2 ppg, 5.1 rpg, 2.4 apg in 54 games) 
PG Chucky Atkins (6.3 ppg, 1.3 rpg, 2.4 apg in 38 games) 
SF Corliss Williamson (8.9 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 0.7 apg in 51 games) 
Change in team outlook: +6.5 ppg, +0.3 rpg, and +3.0 apg.	

TRADE ACCEPTED

Detroit also trades their own first rounder in 2004, and Milwaukee's first rounder to Phoenix.


----------



## MLKG (Aug 25, 2003)

I think the most realistic trade is the one for Kukoc. His name came up a lot last summer too, he would give us cap relief next summer and some needed bench scoring this year.

I wouldn't be surprised if a trade is made, but I would be very surprised if it is anything that would be considered blockbuster.

Almost surely any deal will be salary deal to keep Memo.


----------



## Brian. (Jul 11, 2002)

At this point we either need to trade memo or clear up some cap space for him. I think I heard that the hawks will be something like 30 million under the cap. Denver is another team that will have lots of money to throw around. Teams are willing to overspend for big men that have potential.

As much as I would hate to give up chucky how about something like this

Chucky and Elden to boston

Chris Mills and Mike James to detroit

Mills and james both have expiring contracts.


----------



## agoo (Jun 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Brian</b>!
> At this point we either need to trade memo or clear up some cap space for him. I think I heard that the hawks will be something like 30 million under the cap. Denver is another team that will have lots of money to throw around. Teams are willing to overspend for big men that have potential.
> 
> As much as I would hate to give up chucky how about something like this
> ...


Mike James was signed to a two year deal. However, the second year is less than a million, so I don't think that will stop you from acquiring Memo. Also, Elden makes a bit of sense in Boston, but not Chucky Atkins. I think Ainge would rather keep James.


----------



## froggyvk (Sep 12, 2002)

Paul Pierce

for 

Corliss Williamson, Chucky Atkins, and Elden Campbell.

Works under the cap...


----------



## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

Another rumor:



Corliss and a 1st rounder for Chris Mills. 


Chucky Atkins for Tyronn Lue and Gorden Giricek.


----------



## froggyvk (Sep 12, 2002)

I love the second rumor. Giricek is in the same situation as Okur this offseason, but we won't need to keep him. We've got Delfino coming over, which would hopefully cancel out Giricek anyway. Lue has been starting in Orlando, and is a deadly three-point shooter. I'd rather see him backing up the point than Chucky. As much as I love Chucky, I've got to go with Giricek and Lue.

I like the second deal. Which pick would we give, the lower one? That would probably be our own. Mills is a $6.6 expiring, so we'd definitely be able to re-sign Okur.

Billups - Lue
Rip - Giricek
Prince - Ham
Ben - Darko
Memo - Campbell 

Then hopefully Charlotte will bite on Campbell during the expansion draft.


----------



## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>froggyvk</b>!
> I love the second rumor. Giricek is in the same situation as Okur this offseason, but we won't need to keep him. We've got Delfino coming over, which would hopefully cancel out Giricek anyway. Lue has been starting in Orlando, and is a deadly three-point shooter. I'd rather see him backing up the point than Chucky. As much as I love Chucky, I've got to go with Giricek and Lue.
> 
> I like the second deal. Which pick would we give, the lower one? That would probably be our own. Mills is a $6.6 expiring, so we'd definitely be able to re-sign Okur.
> ...


It just said a first round pick, not sure if it was the Milwaukee or our own. But I would hope in this deal it was our own. If we do give up Chucky, I'd like to be the first to say I want Chris Duhon on our team.


----------



## jvanbusk (Jun 9, 2002)

I was just on the ESPN message board and some of the posters are reporting that they heard on WDFN a rumor of a Chauncey Billups and Corliss Williamson for Steve Francis trade. I'd take it with a grain of salt though, until I heard it myself or I saw it in print.


----------



## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>jvanbusk</b>!
> I was just on the ESPN message board and some of the posters are reporting that they heard on WDFN a rumor of a Chauncey Billups and Corliss Williamson for Steve Francis trade. I'd take it with a grain of salt though, until I heard it myself or I saw it in print.


I for one hope it's not true.


----------



## froggyvk (Sep 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>DetBNyce</b>!
> 
> It just said a first round pick, not sure if it was the Milwaukee or our own. But I would hope in this deal it was our own. If we do give up Chucky, I'd like to be the first to say I want Chris Duhon on our team.


I'll say Sasha Vujanic.

If we acquired Francis, it'd have broken past the ESPN message boards by now.


----------



## froggyvk (Sep 12, 2002)

Would you guys see Chauncey and Corliss for Francis, and Chucky for Lue and Giricek as a net gain?

We go from:

Chauncey - Atkins
Rip - Sura
Prince - Williamson
Ben - Zelly/Darko
Okur - Elden

To:

Francis - Lue
Rip - Giricek
Prince - Ham
Ben - Zelly/Darko
Okur - Elden

To next season:

Francis - Lue
Rip - Delfino
Prince - 
Ben - Darko
Okur - Elden?

I would, though I'd prefer the first trade just not happen and we send Corliss to Chicago for Fizer.


----------



## Brian. (Jul 11, 2002)

I'd be willing to part with Chauncey for Francis. I think he is a bit more consistent on the offensive end. I don't know how him and LB would get along though considering LB likes his PG to be pass first and Francis is a guy who is never saw a shot he didn't like.


----------



## thrillhouse (Apr 18, 2003)

im pretty sure id rather have chauncey on this team than francis


----------



## DocBakk (Jan 3, 2003)

I think Francis would work here IF.....

He realizes that as our PG he needs to PASS the ball a lot to get Rip shots (He needs to know Rip isn't just another jump shooter, he's the best in the game) along with Tayshaun.


I've always thought that we could use a player like Francis who at anytime can break his player down off the dribble for a big score. But that can't be his first option like it seems to be lately. 

I see him though being able to get into the lane and dump alleyoops off to Ben and Prince a lot though.


----------



## MLKG (Aug 25, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>DocBakk</b>!
> 
> He realizes that as our PG he needs to PASS the ball a lot to get Rip shots (He needs to know Rip isn't just another jump shooter, he's the best in the game) along with Tayshaun.


Francis won't even give the ball to Yao Ming, how is he supposed to distribute it around the backcourt?

I really don't want him. He just sits and dribbles and dribbles and dribbles looking for his own shot. Chauncey and Rip have really good chemistry and I hope Joe doesn't break that up.


----------



## jvanbusk (Jun 9, 2002)

What about AI? There are rumors that he could be on his way out of Philly. Would you rather have him than Francis?

I most definately would. I've watched AI grow over the years and he just gets more and more mature. I think with a team where he isn't completely relied upon to shoot 30 times a game, it would work out. Where he is now, he is expected to take all those shots. I don't believe he took as many shots when Stack was on the Sixers. It would be an interesting reunion that's for sure, lol. 

Not saying I'd want him either, just would rather have him more than Francis.


----------



## MLKG (Aug 25, 2003)

I would trade Chauncey and change for AI in a heartbeat. Iverson is just awesome, and remember, he was a point guard when he came into the league, the guy is a great and willing passer.


----------



## froggyvk (Sep 12, 2002)

> King failed in his effort to ship Glenn "Big Dog" Robinson to Detroit a few weeks ago because Pistons president Joe Dumars wasn't interested in taking on an additional salary. Dumars is determined to re-sign forward Mehmet Okur in the off-season.


http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/sports/7963158.htm

Smart man...


----------



## Lope31 (Jun 11, 2002)

I would take AI for Billups and filler in a second and I am sure any sane person would do the same. If we had to give up Billups, our two first rounders, Corliss and Chucky for AI I would do it. AI is great on defence as well as one of the best offensive players in the league.


----------



## Brian. (Jul 11, 2002)

The only problem I see with AI is the fact that are backcourt would be so small teams with big guards would abuse us. That being said I would be willing to deal with that if we could get AI for a reasonable price.


----------



## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

http://www.nypost.com/sports/15736.htm


 

Even though it's from Peter Vescey:



> *Don't be surprised, sources accentuate, if Rashweed Wallace is in uniform tonight at the Garden when the Knicks host the Pistons - only not in a Knick uniform.*
> 
> Now that Wallace is a member of the Hawks, the Pistons, who didn't have the necessary assets to acquire him from the Blazers, have intensified their pursuit - along with at least one other team, perhaps the Mavericks whose All-Star-like lineup is the league's path of least resistance.
> 
> ...


Without even giving up Memo. Can I please wake up in the morning and this happen.


----------



## MLKG (Aug 25, 2003)

Atlanta has made it perfectly clear they just don't care anymore. I am not opposed to Rasheed Wallace on the Pistons. He is extremely talented and possibly the leagues premier 1 on 1 post defender. He and Ben would be an absolute wall on D. 

And the prospect of getting him for players that won't even be here next year? That would be unreal.

Wait.....

I just ran it through realGM, and we can't do the deal using only our expiring contracts. We'd have to give up Chucky, Corliss, or Elden to make the numbers work. I'm sure Joe would be more than willing to do so, but it does make the deal less appealing to Atlanta.


----------



## JustinSane (May 26, 2003)

I don't know what I think about that deal. Sheed is a talented player and has the potential to be a difference maker in the playoffs (especially considering the diluted talent level in this conference). However, our depth is currently our best weapon and this trade gives up pretty much all of it. We'd only have 10 players under contract and just three manning both guard positions. Here's what our team would look like:

PG Billups Atkins
SG Hamilton Prince
SF R. Wallace Prince
PF B. Wallace Williamson
C Okur Campbell Milicic

The superb versatility of Tayshaun Prince may allow us to get away with this, but what do we do if one of our guards gets hurt?

One other factor is that by giving up a first round pick (presumably Atlanta is holding out for the Bucks pick rather than our own) we limit our options for clearing cap space this offseason. The 25th pick in the draft or so may not be enough compensation to convince someone to take on Williamson's contract. We could not afford to give up Atkins in this scenario(since he would be our only remaining back up guard and we wouldn't have cap space to sign a replacement). Basically, that leaves Campbell. I'd think that our own first would be a sufficient bribe for the Bobcats to pick him up in the expansion draft. He's not markedly over-paid and he's still a useful player. In addition, he'd come with an expiring contract. This means the Bobcats would basically be getting a first round pick in exchange for saving their cap space for the offseason of 2005, which looks to be a stronger free agent class in any case. 

Giving up both first round picks has a hidden benefit in that it comfortably solves our cap problems. Including Delfino's projected .9 million salary, we'd only have 34.272 million committed out of a projected cap of 44.9 million next season. Assuming Okur re-signs for a maximum of 7.5 million (I would not give him more than this, considering that with the standard 10% annual increases and a seven year contract, the deal would average close to 10 million a season. Personally, I'd really hesitate to pay him even that much. This figure is just being used as a conservative worst case scenario)
we would have nine players under contract and 3 million left to fill out the rest of the roster. That should be adequate (although it would certainly be nice to have a bit more breathing room). 

So in theory, everything works. Still, there is reason to be nervous about how limited our options would become. Currently, with three players (Williamson, Atkins and Campbell) that could be moved and two first round picks, we have the flexibility to be nearly certain of clearing cap space if it is decided that Memo's potential warrants it. Cutting that down to one player and the lesser of two picks makes things much less certain. 

End conclusion? I guess I'll just trust Dumars' judgement on this one. I'm sure he's considered all of the economic ramifications as well as the strength of this draft class and the potential effect on team chemistry and weighed that against what Sheed could bring to the court yet this season. If he decides to roll the dice I'll be the first to agree with him. If he decides the price is too high I'll trust him on that as well.

edit: One final note. I added all the salaries in the proposed trade (source: HoopsHype.com) to double check Real GM's contention that this doesn't work. I came up with a quite different number. The salaries matched to within 13%. I did the math twice to make sure I hadn't erred and had the same result each time. I'm not sure which site has the inaccurate data on this one, but I would guess the trade probably works.


----------



## MLKG (Aug 25, 2003)

WFAN in New York is supposedly reporting that Sheed for Corliss and Sura + Milwaukee's pick is a done deal.

Don't know if there is any truth to that, but Rebraca would have to be included to make the money work.


----------



## froggyvk (Sep 12, 2002)

48 hour rule?


----------



## froggyvk (Sep 12, 2002)

Never mind, Petey cleared it up for me.

A player can be traded after 48 hours if he is traded ONLY BY HIMSELF. You cannot trade a player recently acquired plus another player together until after 60 days.

I thought a player could only be traded by himself WITHIN 48 hours, but turns out it doesn't matter.


----------



## Lope31 (Jun 11, 2002)

This is exciting but realgm isn't reporting anything yet and they are usually pretty quick when it comes to stuff like this.


----------



## jvanbusk (Jun 9, 2002)

Ever since the AI deal, I don't get too excited until there is a press conference or the player is in uniform.


----------



## MLKG (Aug 25, 2003)

Well, I think Philly was never really interested in ever trading AI and all that was just bad rumours. 

Atlanta however is very receptive to dumping Sheed as he presents a bad image to prospective owners and their season is done anyway.

Whether it happens or not, Joe is definately talking with Atlanta, which is more than you can say about a deal with Philly for AI.


----------



## jvanbusk (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mike luvs KG</b>!
> Well, I think Philly was never really interested in ever trading AI and all that was just bad rumours.
> 
> Atlanta however is very receptive to dumping Sheed as he presents a bad image to prospective owners and their season is done anyway.
> ...


I think you misinterpreted me. I was speaking of the original AI deal where he was ours if not for that bald, out of shape white guy. Where is Matt Geiger nowadays?


----------



## froggyvk (Sep 12, 2002)

That would have been the steal of all steals...Was Joe Dumars the mastermind behind that one, too?


----------



## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

Not to get too far off subject, but I remember them saying AI to Detroit was a done deal and the only reason it didn't happen was because Matt Geiger refused to waive his no trade clause.

The Rasheed deal has had me on the edge of my seat since about at about 1 AM this morning, so I can't say that I'm not a little excited at its prospects. But, I do realize that it could not happen.


----------



## MLKG (Aug 25, 2003)

Chad Ford on Stoney and Wojo. 

Says deal unlikely at this point. Atlanta wants Sura, Rebraca, etc.... but is balking at taking a non expiring deal.

Ford says if Atlanta does to decided to take Corliss or Chucky, then the deal will likely get done.

Looks like Corliss is the stopping point.

Right now our best option might be to call up Boston and see if they will send Mills to Atlanta in exchange for Corliss, that would give the Hawks all expiring deals, and Boston is supposedly willing to take on contracts.


----------



## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>jvanbusk</b>!
> 
> 
> I think you misinterpreted me. I was speaking of the original AI deal where he was ours if not for that bald, out of shape white guy. Where is Matt Geiger nowadays?


Beat me to it... And yea Dumars was behind that one too.


----------



## MLKG (Aug 25, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jvanbusk</b>!
> 
> 
> I think you misinterpreted me. I was speaking of the original AI deal where he was ours if not for that bald, out of shape white guy. Where is Matt Geiger nowadays?


Yeah, I thought you were talking about the DSR's recent AI rumours.


----------



## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mike luvs KG</b>!
> Chad Ford on Stoney and Wojo.
> 
> Says deal unlikely at this point. Atlanta wants Sura, Rebraca, etc.... but is balking at taking a non expiring deal.
> ...


I keep hearing that Corliss is the stopping point too. Would we not be able to re-sign Memo or something, if we don't Corliss' or Chuck's contract off the books (assuming we acquire 'Sheed without those two)? I certainly hope that's the case, because I can't see our reluctancy to give up Corliss as the reason we won't be able to acquire Rasheed Wallace.


----------



## froggyvk (Sep 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mike luvs KG</b>!
> Chad Ford on Stoney and Wojo.
> 
> Says deal unlikely at this point. Atlanta wants Sura, Rebraca, etc.... but is balking at taking a non expiring deal.
> ...


Come on Joe -- Just get it done. There are enough deals out there right now for our non-expiring that you can make two or three deals successfully.

All of our expirings + Milwaukee pick for Rasheed

Corliss for Fizer

Chucky for Giricek + Lue


----------



## Brian. (Jul 11, 2002)

Just to echo the rest of the sentiments on this board make it happen joe. Rasheed Wallace = finals for the pistons.


----------



## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>froggyvk</b>!
> 
> 
> Come on Joe -- Just get it done. There are enough deals out there right now for our non-expiring that you can make two or three deals successfully.
> ...


If Joe D. has taught me one thing since he's become GM, it is that he knows what he's doing. I trust in him 100%, that he'll get something done, even if that means not acquiring Rasheed Wallace.


----------



## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

I'm hearing that Terry Foster is on 1270 AM saying the deal is dead... Because they don't want to take Corliss or Chucky... I would hate to be this close and fail. Give 'em whatever we're already going to give them, Elden, or both of the draft picks, I just want 'Sheed in a Pistons jersey.


----------



## froggyvk (Sep 12, 2002)

I don't think the deal is "dead" -- the talks may have stopped, but it's not dead. Probably a) Joe Dumars says if you decide you want Corliss, call back b) Joe is trying to find a taker for Corliss or Chucky right now c) Joe is trying to get a third team in on the deal. If one of the three things happen, I'd expect talks to heat up again and eventually see a deal go down.


----------



## froggyvk (Sep 12, 2002)

*edited*

-Det


----------



## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>froggyvk</b>!
> I don't think the deal is "dead" -- the talks may have stopped, but it's not dead. Probably a) Joe Dumars says if you decide you want Corliss, call back b) Joe is trying to find a taker for Corliss or Chucky right now c) Joe is trying to get a third team in on the deal. If one of the three things happen, I'd expect talks to heat up again and eventually see a deal go down.


I agree, what I meant was dead for right now.

Oh and ESPN insider can't be quoted on here anymore. You have to summarize what they're saying in your own words.


----------



## froggyvk (Sep 12, 2002)

Ford echos the thoughts that Corliss appears to be holding the deal up, and that it does in fact appear dead for now. He says the Spurs and the Pistons are the only teams that could be interested, but they both have their concerns (Memo and Manu). The Pistons offered Sura, Zelly, Hunter and Milwaukee's pick, but Atlanta will not take either Corliss or Chucky too. San Antonio can offer the expiring contracts and Bruce Bowen, but he has one year left on his deal after this season. 

The Pistons also don't know if they'd only have Sheed for this season, or risking re-signing Memo just to keep Wallace. If he turns out to be a rent-a-player, they believe a first rounder could have more value elsewhere.


----------



## JustinSane (May 26, 2003)

Wallace would be purely rent-a-player. Personally, I'm inclined to think that having him for the playoff push might be worth a first round pick, but we don't have access to all the information Dumars does. There may be one or two specific players they expect to be available with the Bucks pick that they feel other teams have under-valued. I do know that he takes a long range view and does not make impulsive moves for short term success. I'd imagine that Joe's trying to sell this deal as an exchange of expiring contracts with a first round pick thrown in to compensate for taking on a longer contract. Wallace is a good player, but at this point his image creates more PR problems for Atlanta than his play solves. They aren't gonna win this year, with or without him, so they may as well get what they can for him. Sounds like they aren't willing to budge however. I don't see why 1/3 of a season's worth of Sheed and another 4 million in cap room (Atkins) are worth more to Atlanta than a first round draft pick. If you can't win now, why not try to position yourself to have a chance at winning later?


----------



## MLKG (Aug 25, 2003)

Right now I think Joe might be holding out, trying to get Atlanta to budge on the Corliss thing, it all depends on how bad they want Sheed gone.

The deal may be dead where Corliss is involved, but it still could get done if we can find another team (Boston) or we are willing to trade 5 guys to the Hawks (which would be a headache for both teams).


----------



## froggyvk (Sep 12, 2002)

Anyone else get the feeling that Sheed will be a Piston no matter what, but Joe is just waiting to see if Atlanta will budge on what is a better offer for Detroit (including Corliss)? I'll bet if Atlanta still isn't budging at noon on Thursday, Joe calls up Atlanta and says, "You know what, we changed our minds. Sura, Zelly, Hunter, and a first for Rasheed Wallace."


----------



## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

If you guys don't make a move, basically, if you don't get Sheed, I don't see you coming out of the East.

This is a good team but this is the same team as last year, Sheed could get you over the hump.

I also think Joe D wants to get rid of a Corliss not just so you can resign Okur, so you can have a little to resign Sheed as well.

He's already stated he would take the MLE in NYC, I don't see why he wouldn't playing for you guys especially if the team is sucessful with him there.


----------



## jvanbusk (Jun 9, 2002)

Wouldn't it be nice if all this speculation turned out to be nothing?


----------



## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

i'm looking at rasheed to detroit rumors and wondering what would be atlanta's motivation. i can see why detroit would do it, wallace would give them a boost and put up some numbers and they could either sign him for less after the season or let him go and free up a ton of money. i just wonder why atlanta would take back a bunch of guys they wouldnt want and a draft pick that wasnt in the lottery. did they part with rahim and ratliff to get detroit's castoffs + a pick? doesnt make sense.


----------



## froggyvk (Sep 12, 2002)

To recap.

-Francis for chauncey, Corliss

-Fizer for Chucky

-Fizer for Corliss

-Wallace for expirings

-Chucky for Lue, Giricek


----------



## thrillhouse (Apr 18, 2003)

i really hope we get sheed, and we really wouldnt be giving up to much in value.


----------



## MLKG (Aug 25, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>rainman</b>!
> i just wonder why atlanta would take back a bunch of guys they wouldnt want and a draft pick that wasnt in the lottery. did they part with rahim and ratliff to get detroit's castoffs + a pick? doesnt make sense.


The new ownership doesn't want to be associated with Sheed's image. Also they could care less if they don't win a game for the rest of the year so the draft pick next year is more appealing to them than Sheed is this year.


----------



## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rainman</b>!
> i'm looking at rasheed to detroit rumors and wondering what would be atlanta's motivation. i can see why detroit would do it, wallace would give them a boost and put up some numbers and they could either sign him for less after the season or let him go and free up a ton of money. i just wonder why atlanta would take back a bunch of guys they wouldnt want and a draft pick that wasnt in the lottery. did they part with rahim and ratliff to get detroit's castoffs + a pick? doesnt make sense.


Their trade with Portland was done to free up cap room and since they aren't going anywhere with or without Sheed, I guess they figure why not get a first round draft pick.


----------



## Brian. (Jul 11, 2002)

Everytime I see a new post in this thread I hope that somebody is reporting the trade for sheed is done. Maybe to get atlanta to take one of our non expiring contracts we throw both of our first rounder in the mix. A first round pick for us would just eat up more guaranteed money. For Atlanta though they could package that with the milwaukee pick and move up a few spots.


----------



## MLKG (Aug 25, 2003)

I think Joe wants to keep one of our first rounders.

Supposedly the reason for not doing the Sura/Rebraca/Hunter/Ham/Fowlkes/Bucks Pick deal is then we still need to dump either Corliss or Atkins and we'll probably need a first rounder to bribe Charlotte into taking them- which would leaves us without a first round pick of our own.

Who knows, maybe Tony Ronzone has found another gem like Memo and Delfino who will be around late int he first round that we need to keep a pick for.


----------



## froggyvk (Sep 12, 2002)

A cap hold is basically the same as a late first rounder, so it doesn't matter if we add their salary.


----------



## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Brian</b>!
> Everytime I see a new post in this thread I hope that somebody is reporting the trade for sheed is done. Maybe to get atlanta to take one of our non expiring contracts we throw both of our first rounder in the mix. A first round pick for us would just eat up more guaranteed money. For Atlanta though they could package that with the milwaukee pick and move up a few spots.


That is what I want to do. I mean if we're going to give ATL one of the first rounders and try to talk Charlotte into taking either Corliss or Chucky by luring them with the other first rounder, then why not just give them both to ATL to get the Rasheed deal done. 

Then again maybe that's not enough to get ATL to bite.


----------



## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mike luvs KG</b>!
> 
> 
> The new ownership doesn't want to be associated with Sheed's image. Also they could care less if they don't win a game for the rest of the year so the draft pick next year is more appealing to them than Sheed is this year.


sounds good but atlanta basically gives away all their assets there. i dont doubt they havent a clue what their doing, but i would think if they are going to part with 17 mil of cap room they may want a lottery pick or a top young prospect. of which detroit isnt offering. i would love to be in on the conversation where larry brown asks joe d if they could give darko for rasheed. i'd pay to see that exchange.


----------



## MLKG (Aug 25, 2003)

Atlanta can't get a lottery pick or a top young prospect because Detroit is the only team in position to give them anything. So to them, a late first rounder and a bad enough team to have the inside track on the #1 is a better deal than watching Sheed walk.

And speaking of Sheed....

Rob Parker on 97.1 is reporting Boston has been brought into the mix and the deal has a 60% chance of getting done tonight. He's reporting Sura, Zelly, and a first goes to Atlanta and Chucky goes to Boston. Boston then gives Atlanta the expiring contracts (presumably Chris Mills) needed to complete the deal.

Take that for what it's worth, Parker is the same guy who reported Darko would start getting 10 a night....


----------



## jvanbusk (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mike luvs KG</b>!
> Atlanta can't get a lottery pick or a top young prospect because Detroit is the only team in position to give them anything. So to them, a late first rounder and a bad enough team to have the inside track on the #1 is a better deal than watching Sheed walk.
> 
> And speaking of Sheed....
> ...


Someone should ask Parker who our backup guard would be. Lindsey Hunter?


----------



## MLKG (Aug 25, 2003)

That would definately be the concern. My guess would be Lindsey backs up Chauncey and Tayshaun backs up both Rip and Sheed who would play the 3.


----------



## jvanbusk (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mike luvs KG</b>!
> That would definately be the concern. My guess would be Lindsey backs up Chauncey and Tayshaun backs up both Rip and Sheed who would play the 3.


In one word: Weak.

We are going to be worn down physically come playoff time if this were to go down.


----------



## MLKG (Aug 25, 2003)

Lindsey played pretty well at the start of the year, a real solid defender. IMO a depleted bench is a very small price to pay for a player of Sheed's caliber.

And by the way, David Aldridge just said on Sportcenter the deal is very close and it looks like it will happen.

Also I heard a rumour that Sheed walked out of the locker room in Atlanta tonight wearing a Pistons hat.


----------



## jvanbusk (Jun 9, 2002)

No doubt this trade makes our starting five better and increases our talent level. But, I'm worried about our depth.


----------



## MLKG (Aug 25, 2003)

The way I see it is we've been looking to shorten the rotation all year and this gives us a chance to do it. Most teams don't go 10 deep like we do, I think an 8 or 9 man rotation will help to establish consistancy.


----------



## DocBakk (Jan 3, 2003)

David Aldridge said the he heard the Pistons have worked out a second trade that will let us get the Rasheed trade done. I believe David Aldrigde.


----------



## jvanbusk (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mike luvs KG</b>!
> The way I see it is we've been looking to shorten the rotation all year and this gives us a chance to do it. Most teams don't go 10 deep like we do, I think an 8 or 9 man rotation will help to establish consistancy.


That's all fine and well, and I do feel we still have the depth up front. But our backcourt would be seriously lacking. I guess this would pave the way to a couple free agent signings.

We'd be in some serious trouble if Chauncey or Rip had to miss any sort of time with injury.


----------



## agoo (Jun 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Mike luvs KG</b>!
> Atlanta can't get a lottery pick or a top young prospect because Detroit is the only team in position to give them anything. So to them, a late first rounder and a bad enough team to have the inside track on the #1 is a better deal than watching Sheed walk.
> 
> And speaking of Sheed....
> ...


C--Memo-Campbell
PF-Wallace-Ham
SF-Wallace-Williamson
SG-Hamilton-Prince
PG-Billups-Hunter

And you guys are worried about depth? I understand that Ham and Hunter aren't the best, but that deal would be terrific for you. It gives you a scorer and opens minutes to test Darko in the regular season. If you want to go with an 8 man rotation in the playoffs, Prince can play both guard positions and SF, Ben can move up to center, Rasheed can move up to PF, Campbell and Memo can play both PF and C. Detroit would be incredibly tough to beat.


----------



## eza (Feb 17, 2004)

Let this damn thing happen already. 

:laugh: @The Pistons hat rumor as well. I can imagine Sheed doing some crazy stuff like that.


----------

