# What's the Gameplan?



## BlakeJesus

So are we content with being a middle of the road overachieving playoff team who struggles to win a series? I can't imagine that's the end goal, but it seems like that's our destiny again this season unless something happens.

We've won too many games to tank, but I do wonder if we should try and make a move that improves our future in some capacity. Package up one of these guards we have and a 1st and try to get a young player to add to the core. Obviously not expecting to land Eric Bledsoe or anything, but I have to imagine there is a young guy not getting burn somewhere that we could use.

Or (and I think this is the real gameplan) do we just sit on our hands and hope we can sign Dwight and that means Josh stays? I would prefer to be proactive if at all possible, but it's tough to really say what the market is for our guys.


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## R-Star

I see them just sitting which is sad. Atlanta is a team I'd fear to play against in the playoffs, but at the same time could never see them going far. 

It reminds me of the teams that play just good enough to be a 2nd round threat every year, and thus never get good enough draft picks to improve through picks.


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## BlakeJesus

I think they could be really dangerous if they rounded out the rotation a bit more, and I don't even know if it would be all that hard. Andrea Bargnani isn't exactly a guy I'd expect to save anybody's season, but I think he'd add two major things to the team that could really help. Height and extra three point shooting. He's having a very down season too, so I don't even know if he would be all that expensive. 

Trade some expirings and our late 1st for him and who knows, maybe adding a dynamic like that on the cheap (and Bargs could even play off of the bench) could make a bigger impact here than it would other places.


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## RollWithEm

The gameplan is similar to that of the Mavericks this season. The Hawks have only $22 mil in committed salary (not counting Josh) for next season. I think they are going to make a play for Chris Paul to right the wrong they made drafting Marvin Williams in the first place. If not Paul, Big Al Jefferson could also be an intriguing option with Josh and Horford moving back to their natural positions. Andre Iguodala will also be on the market. Guys like OJ Mayo, Kevin Martin, Paul Millsap, and possibly even Andrew Bynum and/or Dwight Howard will also be out there.


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## Bogg

There's not a ton to be had out there that's going to make a huge difference right away. Granger and Gay are available, Bargnani is being shopped, Pau can be had, and there are always one or two guys that nobody knows are available that get moved, but I think this summer is when Atlanta should make their move. It's not sexy to say, but I don't think there's a home-run out there.


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## R-Star

RollWithEm said:


> The gameplan is similar to that of the Mavericks this season. The Hawks have only $22 mil in committed salary (not counting Josh) for next season. I think they are going to make a play for Chris Paul to right the wrong they made drafting Marvin Williams in the first place. If not Paul, Big Al Jefferson could also be an intriguing option with Josh and Horford moving back to their natural positions. Andre Iguodala will also be on the market. Guys like OJ Mayo, Kevin Martin, Paul Millsap, and possibly even Andrew Bynum and/or Dwight Howard will also be out there.


I think that's how it is, but it makes me feel bad for them. I can see them being the odd man out and then over paying for a guy like Mayo to just keep the status quo.


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## R-Star

BlakeJesus said:


> I think they could be really dangerous if they rounded out the rotation a bit more, and I don't even know if it would be all that hard. Andrea Bargnani isn't exactly a guy I'd expect to save anybody's season, but I think he'd add two major things to the team that could really help. Height and extra three point shooting. He's having a very down season too, so I don't even know if he would be all that expensive.
> 
> Trade some expirings and our late 1st for him and who knows, maybe adding a dynamic like that on the cheap (and Bargs could even play off of the bench) could make a bigger impact here than it would other places.


Bargnani could be an interesting fit. 

I don't see him taking them to the next level, but then again I don't see the Hawks enough to know if a stretch 4-5 is the answer.


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## Bogg

RollWithEm said:


> The gameplan is similar to that of the Mavericks this season. The Hawks have only $22 mil in committed salary (not counting Josh) for next season. I think they are going to make a play for Chris Paul to right the wrong they made drafting Marvin Williams in the first place. If not Paul, Big Al Jefferson could also be an intriguing option with Josh and Horford moving back to their natural positions. Andre Iguodala will also be on the market. Guys like OJ Mayo, Kevin Martin, Paul Millsap, and possibly even Andrew Bynum and/or Dwight Howard will also be out there.


I believe we've floated the idea of a trade built around Horford and Rondo in the Celtics forum that could make sense for both teams, especially if you think that Paul sticks around in LA (which is looking more and more likely).


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## BlakeJesus

RollWithEm said:


> The gameplan is similar to that of the Mavericks this season. The Hawks have only $22 mil in committed salary (not counting Josh) for next season. I think they are going to make a play for Chris Paul to right the wrong they made drafting Marvin Williams in the first place. If not Paul, Big Al Jefferson could also be an intriguing option with *Josh and Horford moving back to their natural positions*. Andre Iguodala will also be on the market. Guys like OJ Mayo, Kevin Martin, Paul Millsap, and possibly even Andrew Bynum and/or Dwight Howard will also be out there.


Is this implying that Josh is naturally a SF? I would highly disagree with that, he's a PF to the core. That's not to say he's a traditional or orthodox PF, but it's his best position by a longshot nonetheless.

I would be happy with nabbing Chris Paul, but that's even more of a pipedream than getting Dwight. Paul is killing it on the Clippers, they are one of the best teams in the league, and LA is a major market (not to mention probably a nice place to live). He has all the freedom he wants there, and he's putting it to good use. I think he's found his home, I don't see any realistic scenario where he goes somewhere else.

I do also believe that the money you're referring to is not taking into consideration Jeff Teague either, I believe he is an RFA this summer.


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## R-Star

Bogg said:


> I believe we've floated the idea of a trade built around Horford and Rondo in the Celtics forum that could make sense for both teams, especially if you think that Paul sticks around in LA (which is looking more and more likely).


Would the Celtics do Rondo for Horford? Because if they would and I'm Atlanta I'm doing that in a second. 

Then you try to pick up one of Utahs big men in the offseason and you have a real strong looking team going into next season. On paper anyways.


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## BlakeJesus

R-Star said:


> Would the Celtics do Rondo for Horford? Because if they would and I'm Atlanta I'm doing that in a second.
> 
> Then you try to pick up one of Utahs big men in the offseason and you have a real strong looking team going into next season. On paper anyways.


I also agree that's a deal I would be happy to do, would also give you the freedom to move around some of the guards to nab somebody now (or at least a body). Flip Teague for something, or Devin Harris' big expiring. It would be nice to keep Lou Will though, I could see him and Rondo having fun.


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## R-Star

BlakeJesus said:


> I also agree that's a deal I would be happy to do, would also give you the freedom to move around some of the guards to nab somebody now (or at least a body). Flip Teague for something, or Devin Harris' big expiring. It would be nice to keep Lou Will though, I could see him and Rondo having fun.


Could do the Rondo deal, and the package Harris's expiring with a pick for Barg's.

Something like that.


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## ATLien

Be bad enough next year to get a top 5 pick. Be bad enough in 2015 to get a top 10 pick. Be bad enough in 2016 to get a top 15 pick. Hope one of them is a superstar, and at least one other is an all-star. If draft picks do not pan out, then rinse repeat until it happens.


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## RollWithEm

BlakeJesus said:


> Is this implying that Josh is naturally a SF? I would highly disagree with that, he's a PF to the core. That's not to say he's a traditional or orthodox PF, but it's his best position by a longshot nonetheless.


I knew there was a 90% chance you were going to point out this point. You and I have argued over this for years. I think he's more valuable at the 3-spot if you have a post-up 5 man like Big Al and a pick-and-pop 4-man like Horford.


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## Bogg

R-Star said:


> Would the Celtics do Rondo for Horford? Because if they would and I'm Atlanta I'm doing that in a second.
> 
> Then you try to pick up one of Utahs big men in the offseason and you have a real strong looking team going into next season. On paper anyways.


I don't know what you would have to add to them, on both ends, because a straight-up swap leaves both teams unbalanced. However, Boston has a big hole at power forward and an old team that isn't a great match for Rondo's fast-break abilities. If you combine Rondo/Sullinger and Horford/Lou Williams and flesh it out with some minor picks and players you might make both teams better going forward.


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## BlakeJesus

Bogg said:


> I don't know what you would have to add to them, on both ends, because a straight-up swap leaves both teams unbalanced. However, Boston has a big hole at power forward and an old team that isn't a great match for Rondo's fast-break abilities. If you combine Rondo/Sullinger and Horford/Lou Williams and flesh it out with some minor picks and players you might make both teams better going forward.


I would truly prefer to keep Lou Will going forward, especially with a guy like Rondo coming in. We have a bunch of guards I would push first, Devin Harris (functional and would be a big expiring), John Jenkins, even Jeff Teague would be more expendable at that point IMO.


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## R-Star

ATLien said:


> Be bad enough next year to get a top 5 pick. Be bad enough in 2015 to get a top 10 pick. Be bad enough in 2016 to get a top 15 pick. Hope one of them is a superstar, and at least one other is an all-star. If draft picks do not pan out, then rinse repeat until it happens.


Hasn't that been what they've been doing prior to this last playoff stretch?


Guys like Lebron don't come around often, and even then its not like he panned out with his own team. 

For every OKC there's a bunch of teams who have tried to tank to build through the draft and failed. And the players you do get become tired of losing and end up leaving before it can all come together.


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## Bogg

BlakeJesus said:


> I would truly prefer to keep Lou Will going forward, especially with a guy like Rondo coming in. We have a bunch of guards I would push first, Devin Harris (functional and would be a big expiring), John Jenkins, even Jeff Teague would be more expendable at that point IMO.


I wouldn't mind Teague in Williams' place. That actually makes a good deal of sense.


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## BlakeJesus

RollWithEm said:


> I knew there was a 90% chance you were going to point out this point. You and I have argued over this for years. I think he's more valuable at the 3-spot if you have a post-up 5 man like Big Al and a pick-and-pop 4-man like Horford.


Only way I could see it working (and I don't know how successful it would be every game), would be to have a guy who is a three point shooter playing the 4 spot. Bargs or Ryan Anderson type, stretches the floor and gives them shooting. Starting Teague/whoever/Smith/Horford/Al Jefferson would be brutal in terms of shooting the ball, bunch of slashers and jump shooters. It's too redundant from my perspective, but stranger things have happened I suppose.


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## R-Star

Ryan Anderson sucks...


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## Bogg

R-Star said:


> Hasn't that been what they've been doing prior to this last playoff stretch?
> 
> 
> Guys like Lebron don't come around often, and even then its not like he panned out with his own team.
> 
> For every OKC there's a bunch of teams who have tried to tank to build through the draft and failed. And the players you do get become tired of losing and end up leaving before it can all come together.


To be fair, they drafted Westbrook, Harden, and Ibaka; as well as drafting the guy they traded for Perkins. Add a league-average starting small forward to that group and it's still a perennial playoff squad with a punchers' chance. OKC did _a lot_ of things right, but just drafting Durant.


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## RollWithEm

BlakeJesus said:


> Starting Teague/whoever/Smith/Horford/Al Jefferson would be brutal in terms of shooting the ball, bunch of slashers and jump shooters. It's too redundant from my perspective, but stranger things have happened I suppose.


I'm not sure Teague would be a good choice at that spot, either. It would have to be a better shooter. I could see those 3 in the front court with Lou Williams (or Mo Williams, for that matter) and Korver/Morrow in the back court working very nicely. It would be an upgraded version of the current Bucks, basically.


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## R-Star

Bogg said:


> To be fair, they drafted Westbrook, Harden, and Ibaka; as well as drafting the guy they traded for Perkins. Add a league-average starting small forward to that group and it's still a perennial playoff squad with a punchers' chance. OKC did _a lot_ of things right, but just drafting Durant.


Oh I agree, that's why I brought it up. They fit the mold that ATLien brought up. 

I'm just saying that for every shining example like OKC, there's a ton more cautionary tales of being a cellar dweller trying to build through the draft.


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## BlakeJesus

RollWithEm said:


> I'm not sure Teague would be a good choice at that spot, either. It would have to be a better shooter. I could see those 3 in the front court with Lou Williams (or Mo Williams, for that matter) and Korver/Morrow in the back court working very nicely. It would be an upgraded version of the current Bucks, basically.


I don't see that Bucks comparison at all.


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## RollWithEm

BlakeJesus said:


> I don't see that Bucks comparison at all.


Two guards (Jennings/Ellis vs Williams/Korver) who don't defend well but who provide all the shooting for the starting unit next to a forward tandem (Mbah a Moute/Sanders vs Josh/Horford) who both defend their positions well and provide intangibles and a 5th starter (Ilyasova/Big Al) who causes match-up problems for the opposition because he puts points on the board in unique ways. The difference would obviously be that the Hawks I am describing would be generally more versatile... ergo an upgrade on the current Bucks.

Make sense?


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## BlakeJesus

The words/ideas match up, but the players do not from my perspective. Jennings/Ellis is nowhere near the same as Williams/Korber, even if they share some general faults. Just nowhere near the same thing, honestly. Teague/Lou Will is a much closer comparison. 3/4 on the Bucks do not match your idea of the 3/4 for the Hawks, other than some shotblocking. Moute and Sanders are not able to do the same things that Josh and Al do, so I think they are inherently incomparable for that reason.

I guess I now at least see what you are saying, but it's still not something I would agree with.


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## RollWithEm

Well, I agree with it... and that's the most important thing.


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## BlakeJesus

With Lou Will out, should that change the way we approach the rest of this season? He was doing great things as a starter, so losing him is definitely deflating. 

Lots of rumors about Josh Smith, I'm starting to hear Jeff Teague thrown around a bit more, and Horford is a guy a lot of other teams covet. We certainly have the pieces available to make some kind of trade (especially taking into consideration Devin Harris' expiring), I'm just not sure what's out there.


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## BlakeJesus

Let's make a deal!


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## ATLien

Overcoming 27-point deficit is not something you see every week.

Korver!


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## BlakeJesus

So what would you guys think about trading Josh Smith for JaVale McGee + Gallo/Wilson Chandler?


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## BlakeJesus

It seemed pretty obvious that we were going to move Smoove before the deadline, but obviously that did not happen. With that in mind, what's the gameplan? Do we let him walk for nothing, or are we hoping for a sign and trade? 

I've heard the front office considers Jeff Teague and Al Horford to be the building blocks going forward, so clearly that means they plan on offering Teague some kind of long term contract given the fact he's an RFA. What type of money should he be getting? What kind of offer sheets would other teams be willing to give him?


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## BlakeJesus

Work with me fellas.


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## Bogg

I'm hoping that you guys sign the Smith/Howard duo to max contracts and then trade Horford to Boston for Rondo, but that's just me.


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## BlakeJesus

I would be happy if we were able to get Rondo, but at this point it's highly unlikely we resign Josh unless it's in a sign and trade. I really hope that's the game plan, and we don't just plan to let one of our most valuable assets walk away for nothing in return. I would be game to do Teague/Smith for Rondo/something (and don't say Fab Melo), but it's hard to project things like that at this point.


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## Bogg

BlakeJesus said:


> I would be happy if we were able to get Rondo, but at this point it's highly unlikely we resign Josh unless it's in a sign and trade. I really hope that's the game plan, and we don't just plan to let one of our most valuable assets walk away for nothing in return. I would be game to do Teague/Smith for Rondo/something (and don't say Fab Melo), but it's hard to project things like that at this point.


I don't want to pay Josh Smith max money when the Celtics only have a year or two left of KG and Pierce even playing. I'd happily take Horford, however, and I think that Smith definitely stays in Atlanta if he gets paid and they get his buddy Rondo in town. That being said, with how Atlanta made a big deal out of getting rid or Marvin Williams and Joe Johnson for cap space and refused to take any bad contracts back in a Josh Smith deal, I doubt they offer him a max contract, either.


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## RollWithEm

Rondo can't play next to Josh Smith and be successful longterm. Teams would just pack the lande and beg them to shoot jumpers all day. Rondo has to be on a team with a PF that can hit a shot (like KG), and Josh has to be on a team with a PG who can hit a shot.


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## Bogg

RollWithEm said:


> Rondo can't play next to Josh Smith and be successful longterm. Teams would just pack the lande and beg them to shoot jumpers all day. Rondo has to be on a team with a PF that can hit a shot (like KG), and Josh has to be on a team with a PG who can hit a shot.


Eh, Rondo/Smith/Howard gives you the foundation of a truly elite, championship-level defense when all three are happy, healthy, and engaged, and Williams would give you plenty of scoring/shooting off the bench. Add a couple of shooters to space the floor at the two and three (Kyle Korver is already there!) and it would work.


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## BlakeJesus

Bogg said:


> Eh, Rondo/Smith/Howard gives you the foundation of a truly elite, championship-level defense when all three are happy, healthy, and engaged, and Williams would give you plenty of scoring/shooting off the bench. Add a couple of shooters to space the floor at the two and three (Kyle Korver is already there!) and it would work.


Agreed I think it would work, but I would honestly prefer to have Rondo/Horford/Howard if that was at all possible. That makes more sense in terms of spacing offensively and it still maintains a stout defensive (albeit with less playmaking).


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## Bogg

With most of the roster set to come off the cap this summer, what's Atlanta's plan going forward? Any chance of them packaging both their first round picks to move up in the draft and get one of the higher-ranked centers (Zeller, Gobert, Len) to finally bump Horford to the 4? With the way the 2014 draft looks, it might be a good time to tear it all down and rebuild around Horford.


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## ATLien

That's what they SHOULD do, but the biggest fear is they'll throw a bunch of money at someone mediocre again. They really need to somehow acquire promising young players, while being bad enough to get ping pong balls for 2014.


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