# Trading for A.I. a mistake?



## Attila

I haven't been following the Nuggets all that closely this season, but they seemed to be doing better before they traded for Iverson. Did they really make themselves better with the trade? I thought they had a good thing going with J.R. Smith playing sidekick to Melo. I never though Iverson was a very good team player, as he needs to ball in hands too much.

What do you guys think? You've probably seen a lot more Nuggets games then I have.


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## darth-horax

It's not a mistake.

We've never had a full, healhty team together since the trade, and taht has made it difficult to gel.

That being said, I think that Dre was possibly the glue that kept everybody ticking, i fyou follow me.


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## Sliccat

Well, I'm not liking George Karl's "just let them play" strategy. They need some plays.


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## AK-47

Aren't they like 2-6 when they play together? They also need better defense.


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## Diable

I really hate their offense...Although I am not sure you can even really call it an offense.


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## cpawfan

Diable said:


> I really hate their offense...Although I am not sure you can even really call it an offense.


it is offensive, just like their defense


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## melo4life

Attila said:


> I haven't been following the Nuggets all that closely this season, but they seemed to be doing better before they traded for Iverson. Did they really make themselves better with the trade? I thought they had a good thing going with J.R. Smith playing sidekick to Melo. I never though Iverson was a very good team player, as he needs to ball in hands too much.
> 
> What do you guys think? You've probably seen a lot more Nuggets games then I have.


I knew this kind of thread would be good in the future, now the duo have become the dynamic duo.... could become bigger.


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## Sliccat

melo4life said:


> I knew this kind of thread would be good in the future, now the duo have become the dynamic duo.... could become bigger.


Well, we'll see. A seven game win streak doesn't mean they're great.


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## melo4life

8 now. :biggrin:


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## jefferyball

Its not a mistake trading for A.I. did you see how well the chemistry was between melo and iverson?to me iverson is an underated passer,and they will be better next season because iverson and melo are very familiar with each other Iverson is a great addition to the nuggets team.


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## TheTruth34

not at all...the spurs were just a level ahead of everyone this year. even the mighty suns couldnt stop them( minus head butts, body checks, and achilles attacks)


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## ss03

It was a risk that they decided to take, and honestly, they didn't give up THAT much for it. I don't know how much those two LATE draft picks they gave to the 76ers would have helped their team in the future, even if the draft was "one of the deepest ones ever". 

Lets face it, Carmelo Anthony and Andre Miller weren't going to come together and win an NBA championship this season, nor would they have won one with the players they had arround them in the next couple of years. Miller and Iverson are also the same age pretty much, give or take one year, so it isn't like they were giving up youth. 

As for Smith being the sidekick... Did you watch the playoffs, and listen to Karl at all during the playoffs? Smith has fallen out of favour with George Karl and will probably have to fight to start a game next season. Also, his car crash history doesn't help him either. 

Although, the poster posted this long time ago and I don't know why it was brought back up, so the original posters obviously were talking about Smith when he was shooting high percentages and going off for 15-20 points a game, but oh well, I felt like commenting on it. 

The Iverson/Carmelo combination wasn't a terrible idea, and the Nuggets actually look like a pretty decent team heading into next year. They even gave the Spurs a little scare.


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## NugzFan

Attila said:


> I haven't been following the Nuggets all that closely this season, but they seemed to be doing better before they traded for Iverson. Did they really make themselves better with the trade? I thought they had a good thing going with J.R. Smith playing sidekick to Melo. I never though Iverson was a very good team player, as he needs to ball in hands too much.
> 
> What do you guys think? You've probably seen a lot more Nuggets games then I have.


a mistake? not even close. we gave up andre miller for a top 20 player of all time. :clap:


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## Attila

NugzFan said:


> a mistake? not even close. we gave up andre miller for a top 20 player of all time. :clap:



Talent isn't everything; team chemistry means a lot more then total talent and the Nuggets had great chemistry before the trade.


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## cpawfan

Attila said:


> Talent isn't everything; team chemistry means a lot more then total talent and the Nuggets had great chemistry before the trade.


No they didn't

There were front court players that cheered when they were told Dre was traded away


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## garnett

Allen Iverson is going to make any offensive scheme look bad, because whatever it is he's just going to dominate the ball whenever he's out there.


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## RoddneyThaRippa

Attila said:


> Talent isn't everything; team chemistry means a lot more then total talent and the Nuggets had great chemistry before the trade.


This is news to me.


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## RoddneyThaRippa

garnett said:


> Allen Iverson is going to make any offensive scheme look bad, because whatever it is he's just going to dominate the ball whenever he's out there.


Right. Carmelo actually had space to work this postseason. 

I would like to see Iverson go, though. He just isn't the solution for this team. These myths about his bad attitude and ball-hogging need to stop though. Do people even watch basketball anymore, or do they get all their information from blogs?


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## Sliccat

NugzFan said:


> a mistake? not even close. we gave up andre miller for a top 20 player of all time. :clap:


This comment pleases me.


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## Attila

Anybody ready to change their minds yet?


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## Sliccat

RoddneyThaRippa said:


> Right. Carmelo actually had space to work this postseason.
> 
> I would like to see Iverson go, though. He just isn't the solution for this team. These myths about his bad attitude and ball-hogging need to stop though. Do people even watch basketball anymore, or do they get all their information from blogs?


still the popular opinion.


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## pac4eva5

Attila said:


> Anybody ready to change their minds yet?


why? other than probably having the 13th or 14th pick in this years draft, it wasnt that much different. iverson wasnt a mistake. he was a gamble. and the gamble did little to help nor hurt this team. dre put up 49 wins in his best season with denver. iverson got 50 in a much harder conference.

the expectations fell way short. the team was still better tho...


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## pac4eva5

Sliccat said:


> still the popular opinion.


not really. the ball hogging came back. not exactly myth...


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## jefferyball

Why is everyone coming down on A.I.?He is great for the Denver Nuggets team he is a very underrated passer.He makes the team better the only problem i see is as a whole the Nuggets need to play better defense.You can't just put it all on A.I.


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## kirov

jefferyball said:


> Why is everyone coming down on A.I.?He is great for the Denver Nuggets team he is a very underrated passer.He makes the team better the only problem i see is as a whole the Nuggets need to play better defense.You can't just put it all on A.I.


Couldn't agree with you more.


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## pac4eva5

jefferyball said:


> Why is everyone coming down on A.I.?He is great for the Denver Nuggets team he is a very underrated passer.He makes the team better the only problem i see is as a whole the Nuggets need to play better defense.You can't just put it all on A.I.


hes a horrible fit. hes a terrible passer. hes an unwilling passer. he makes the team better ever so slightly. and hes probably the worst defender on the team. u could make a case for camby and kleiza as well...


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## Sliccat

pac4eva5 said:


> hes a horrible fit. hes a terrible passer. hes an unwilling passer. he makes the team better ever so slightly. and hes probably the worst defender on the team. u could make a case for camby and kleiza as well...


neither a terrible or an unwilling passer as a sg, his natural position.


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## seifer0406

You need to put someone like Kirk Hinrich next to him and not let him play the point.


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## Sliccat

seifer0406 said:


> You need to put someone like Kirk Hinrich next to him and not let him play the point.


More like Jason Kidd or Steve Blake, really. Hinrich isn't a good enough defender against shooting guards. If Livingston was healthy, he'd be another good option.


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## pac4eva5

Sliccat said:


> neither a terrible or an unwilling passer as a sg, his natural position.


umm bull****. SG's arent supposed to dribble around for 20 seconds and then force up am off-balance 17 footer.

and if sg really is his "natural position" then that just shows what a ****ing horrible player he is. the only way he can help a team out is if u pair him up with a BIGGER pg? no wonder he never won anything at any level...


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## pac4eva5

Sliccat said:


> More like Jason Kidd or Steve Blake, really. Hinrich isn't a good enough defender against shooting guards. If Livingston was healthy, he'd be another good option.


hinrich is a better defender than both of those 2 but w/e. hes also a better 3point shooter.

kidd or even nash would be useless paired up with iverson. playmakers need the ball in their hands. but so does selfish iverson. how would that work?


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## Your Answer

pac4eva5 said:


> umm bull****. SG's arent supposed to dribble around for 20 seconds and then force up am off-balance 17 footer.
> 
> and if sg really is his "natural position" then that just shows what a ****ing horrible player he is. the only way he can help a team out is if u pair him up with a BIGGER pg? no wonder he never won anything at any level...


you are a fool my friend? Now your taking your "Hater" tendencies to a whole nother level and calling him a horrible player lol get real dude. How can you say someone who is TOP 10 in assists this year a horrible passer. Oh yah and guess who he finished ahead of this year in assists thats right Andre Miller who a lot of people in Denver and also around the league consider a GREAT passer.

The only thing that is bull**** around here is this constant AI hate parade and trying to use him as a scapegoat every time something goes wrong with this team. The reason this team didnt meet expectations is horrible defense, yes AI is included in that but so is the rest of the team. If people actually watched the damn games AI did a lot more to try to get other ppl the ball then anyone else on the team. Melo sure forced up god near anything when he touched the ball why arent you on his *** too?
Let me answer the question for you because you just love to hate and do it blindly too.


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## kirov

exactly. besides, AI is 32 years old, he doesn't care about individual awards anymore,he's got them practically all, he wants that ring. Carmelo, JR Smith, Kleiza, etc. are young players who just wanna play, knowing they will be in the league for a decade and will have plenty of chance to get it. 10 years ago Iverson played just like Carmelo plays now, wanting to score on every possession and not willing to pass. He changed a lot though.
I totally agree with you, offense is not big of a problem, defense on the other hand...


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## jefferyball

kirov said:


> exactly. besides, AI is 32 years old, he doesn't care about individual awards anymore,he's got them practically all, he wants that ring. Carmelo, JR Smith, Kleiza, etc. are young players who just wanna play, knowing they will be in the league for a decade and will have plenty of chance to get it. 10 years ago Iverson played just like Carmelo plays now, wanting to score on every possession and not willing to pass. He changed a lot though.
> I totally agree with you, offense is not big of a problem, defense on the other hand...


thank you kirov that was very well put.


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## jericho

pac4eva5 said:


> umm bull****. SG's arent supposed to dribble around for 20 seconds and then force up am off-balance 17 footer.
> 
> and if sg really is his "natural position" then that just shows what a ****ing horrible player he is. the only way he can help a team out is if u pair him up with a BIGGER pg? no wonder he never won anything at any level...


C'mon, he's not a horrible player. He's an MVP winner and headed for the Hall of Fame.

My contention about Iverson is that he's the hardest superstar to build a contending team around that I've ever seen. He's always been a small combo guard with a ridiculously high usage rate who doesn't score very efficiently and doesn't focus much on man defense. Unless he can be brainwashed out of some of his deeply ingrained bad habits, then his team's management is always going to be searching for just the perfect backcourt mate for him.


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## pac4eva5

Melo's Answer said:


> you are a fool my friend? Now your taking your "Hater" tendencies to a whole nother level and calling him a horrible player lol get real dude. How can you say someone who is TOP 10 in assists this year a horrible passer. Oh yah and guess who he finished ahead of this year in assists thats right Andre Miller who a lot of people in Denver and also around the league consider a GREAT passer.
> 
> The only thing that is bull**** around here is this constant AI hate parade and trying to use him as a scapegoat every time something goes wrong with this team. The reason this team didnt meet expectations is horrible defense, yes AI is included in that but so is the rest of the team. If people actually watched the damn games AI did a lot more to try to get other ppl the ball then anyone else on the team. Melo sure forced up god near anything when he touched the ball why arent you on his *** too?
> Let me answer the question for you because you just love to hate and do it blindly too.


stephon marbury averages 10 assists a game. means nothing. when u have the ball in ur hands for 99% of the shot clock/game ur gonna get an assist every now and then. i never judge a player by assists. guys like chauncey never average high assist numbers. and ur andre miller comment is retarded. i dont like dre. maybe u missed my first post in this thread?

and ive never used iverson as a scapegoat. sure, hes a pathetic fit for just about every nba team, but its not his complete fault hes 1-8 in the playoffs. camby is by far our worst player. however both need to go now. ur right, iverson did do the best job at trying to get other people the ball. sad thing is he still sucked at it. he never feeds the hot hand. a good 80% of his passes are bail outs back to camby or AC before iverson steps out of bounds. he is by far the worst guard ive ever seen off the p&r. in fact, players all together stopped rolling. no way they were gonna get it anayway. 

u seriously read ONE post and made an entire judgement on me? ive been on melo's selfish *** for a while now. i dont love to hate. i love to win. melo and iverson are two of my favorite players. as long as iverson stays away from my team and melo grows up, i'll be happy...


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## pac4eva5

jericho said:


> C'mon, he's not a horrible player. He's an MVP winner and headed for the Hall of Fame.
> 
> My contention about Iverson is that he's the hardest superstar to build a contending team around that I've ever seen. He's always been a small combo guard with a ridiculously high usage rate who doesn't score very efficiently and doesn't focus much on man defense. Unless he can be brainwashed out of some of his deeply ingrained bad habits, then his team's management is always going to be searching for just the perfect backcourt mate for him.


thats exactly what i mean. ive never questioned iverson's talent. he is imo the most naturally talented player ive seen in my life. but he simply doesnt fit the nuggets, or any other team. and since he cant, not even to save his own life, be a PG, the nuggets are stuck with a mismatch all 44 minutes he plays a game.

he could be BETTER than chris paul.


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## darth-horax

If AI committed himself to Assists and 20 ppg, he'd be better than Chris Paul. However, with his score-first mentatlity, he's relegated to an undersized SG, or a pass-second PG, which have proven not to win in this league.

I hope we keep AI, but I want to see him pass the ball more. I love his scoring ability, but a PG shoudl never score first, pass second.


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## pac4eva5

its not even about the assists to me. 7 is a high number. unfortunately thats about half of the passes he'll make in an entire game. the other 7 passes are to guys like carter or camby when hes dribbled for a good 15 seconds and is trapped going out of bounds.

why cant he swing the ball? or make an entry pass? or pass off the pick and roll? because he simply doesnt know how to :/


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## Deke

I think it was a mistake. now you lost your draft picks. before you could hope Melo would go down for a season and you guys tank and get a nice young player to put beside him. now its perenial loser. not just cuz of AI but because of AI you negate the ability to further build through the draft.


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## RoddneyThaRippa

Deke said:


> I think it was a mistake. now you lost your draft picks. before you could hope Melo would go down for a season and you guys tank and get a nice young player to put beside him. now its perenial loser. not just cuz of AI but because of AI you negate the ability to further build through the draft.


Those picks weren't anything special though. Iverson might be able to work here with a different coach, but he's too stubborn of a person to realize that he needs to play point guard. The weird thing is that when he first got here, he was distributing great. Karl told him to shoot more, so he did. Karl did not, however, tell him to lose his cotton pickin' mind. Iverson understands basketball a helluva lot better than he shows on the court, so I'm not sure what exactly he was thinking at times this season. 

Karl is what's wrong with this team though. Kill the head and the body will die. Karl checked out after Miller and Boykins left, and we've seen the effect it has had on the body. I hope Iverson opts out, which would force the team to take more of a rebuilding approach. Either way, I won't be watching the team next season if Karl is coaching unless they go on a torrential run in the first half of the season. This basketball is gut-wrenching.


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## pac4eva5

Deke said:


> I think it was a mistake. now you lost your draft picks. before you could hope Melo would go down for a season and you guys tank and get a nice young player to put beside him. now its perenial loser. not just cuz of AI but because of AI you negate the ability to further build through the draft.


we have a nice young player to put beside him. and those picks we gave to philly sucked...


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## iversonfan 349

pac4eva5 said:


> we have a nice young player to put beside him. and those picks we gave to philly sucked...


Jason smith turned out pretty good.


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## darth-horax

Jason Smith is the next Cherokee Parks...with better hands.

I love AI, but dang...just...dang.

As far as saying the draft picks were our key to rebuliding...Karl does NOT play rookies, so the pix would have ended up being more like the few we've had with him thus far...Julius Hodge ring a bell?


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