# Brewer & Noah: Impressive Workouts



## SheedSoNasty (Dec 31, 2002)

According to Chad Ford on ESPN. However, it's an insider article and I'm not an insider.

That's just according to the headline.

Whatever the case, I don't really like Noah but could see us drafting him.


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## BuckW4GM (Nov 2, 2005)

webster was there also. good to hear he's already working out. here's the part about webster:



> Noah is done for the day. Brewer joins a group to play five-on-five. The Blazers' Martell Webster and the Rockets' Kirk Snyder are here. They're joined by USC's Gabe Pruitt, San Diego State's Brandon Heath, Iowa's Adam Haluska, Creighton's Nate Funk, Oregon State's Marcel Jones and Wright State's Dashaun Woods.
> 
> The play is fast and furious. Webster was the No. 5 pick in the draft two years ago. He would've been just a sophomore in college this year. He has an NBA body and two years of pro experience. But he still doesn't have the game of Brewer, who clearly outshines everyone else on the floor. His smooth game, from pull-up jumpers to alley-oop dunks, shows just how destructive he could be in an open-court game.


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## Yega1979 (Mar 22, 2003)

My vote has been in the Corey Brewer bag for awhile, but I really hope we don't draft Noah. Noah is late 1st, early 2nd round talent.


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## Peaceman (Jan 15, 2003)

I'm not a huge Chad Ford fan, but I like the article on Brewer and Noah. I bet Brewer will pass Horford in draft position and I could see Noah drop to the 9-12 range. Brewer is a top 5 player and I don't think he will be there for the Blazers if we pick at 6-7. Chad ford mentions Brewer is more polished then Webster. If Portland can get Brewer, I would doubt Ime gets resigned for more then 2 million per year.


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## BIG Q (Jul 8, 2005)

I have been on the Brewer band wagon as long as we do not get pick one or two and KP likes him more than Julian Wright. I think he will be better than T. Prince, and he is damn good.


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## GOD (Jun 22, 2003)

BIG Q said:


> I have been on the Brewer band wagon as long as we do not get pick one or two and KP likes him more than Julian Wright. I think he will be better than T. Prince, and he is damn good.


I agree with you about Brewer, but how do you know that KP likes him more than J.Wright, he is not even allowed to comment on specific players yet.


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## yuyuza1 (May 24, 2006)

That bit on Webster concern anyone else? He should be dominating the players mentioned with his size and NBA experience.


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## TheBlueDoggy (Oct 5, 2004)

yuyuza1 said:


> That bit on Webster concern anyone else? He should be dominating the players mentioned with his size and NBA experience.


No, I'm not particularly concerned.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

If Noah's a lottery pick he should be tearing it up against some of those big down there.

Adam Haluska, Marcel Jones, DaShaun Woods....? Gross.


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## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

Those two drafts (Telfair & Webster) were really bad. Hopefully we can send Webster out of town and secure a player in the draft that can help us on a more consistant basis. 

Brewer has never been high on my radar because of his total lack of a jump shot, and we probably won't utilize his open court abilities to their fullest. That being said he probably would be a very good fit for us.


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## darkhelmit54 (Jan 23, 2005)

Noah and Brewer are both still a year older than Webster so they do have more experience. His NBA experience probably doesn't matter that much since I'm sure they were playing in a more college type pickup game. I think Webster has all the tools to get there eventually, and I won't be able to give up on him till at the very earliest the end of next season.


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## hasoos (Jan 3, 2003)

I honestly believe the best move for Webster at this point is for the coaching staff to get together with him and make a committment to improvement. If the team made him hang out with Bill Baino all summer long like they did Zbo, I would have to bet he would actually come into camp a pretty good player next year.


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## MARIS61 (Apr 28, 2003)

hasoos said:


> I honestly believe the best move for Webster at this point is for the coaching staff to get together with him and make a committment to improvement. If the team made him hang out with Bill Baino all summer long like they did Zbo, I would have to bet he would actually come into camp a pretty good player next year.


They can't make him do anything.

Zach works all year because he WANTS to.

Martell... apparently not so much.


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## Mr. Chuck Taylor (Aug 2, 2004)

Brewer outplaying Webster isn't saying much.

Anyone else feel like the "Webster would only be a sophmore in college if he didnt come out" argument is on its last legs? I feel like if there are some GM's who still think he could be a star, we should see what we can get for him. This situation reminds me of the telfair trade - I had all but given up on him and yet we found good value for him based on his "potential". One year later Telfair is worth nothing, and I'm affraid thats what will happen with Webster. The question is, will we be the ones with nothing?


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## BIG Q (Jul 8, 2005)

Nate McVillain said:


> I agree with you about Brewer, but how do you know that KP likes him more than J.Wright, he is not even allowed to comment on specific players yet.


I did not say that KP likes Brewer more, I was implying that I trust KP's judgement and if he picks Wright over Brewer I can live with it.


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## For Three! Rip City! (Nov 11, 2003)

While I share everyone's dissapointment in having drafted Webster and JJ over two really good point guards, what's done is done. I think Webster will come around. I'm not convinced he's the most intelligent guy around which I think has limited his development a bit. 

He's a great guy. A great teammate. He's strong in the community. He has great physical skills. Once the stuff between his ears catches up (and I think it will), he'll become a strong contributor on the team. 

I see him in more of a sixth man role in the short term though. If we draft Brewer, I would be really happy to have Martel be the primary backup to him and Roy. Webster can be our version of Horry and Finley for the Spurs (well minus the hip check).


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## Talkhard (May 13, 2003)

For Three! Rip City! said:


> I think Webster will come around. I'm not convinced he's the most intelligent guy around which I think has limited his development a bit.


I don't think it has anything to do with intelligence. From what I've seen, Webster is plenty smart enough. He just lacks confidence and (more important) a real NBA game.


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## andalusian (Jun 29, 2006)

For Three! Rip City! said:


> I see him in more of a sixth man role in the short term though. If we draft Brewer, I would be really happy to have Martel be the primary backup to him and Roy. Webster can be our version of Horry and Finley for the Spurs (well minus the hip check).


Would work nice if he could develop some clutch shooting ability. I will settle for consistent shooting ability, to be honest.


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## GOD (Jun 22, 2003)

BIG Q said:


> I did not say that KP likes Brewer more, I was implying that I trust KP's judgement and if he picks Wright over Brewer I can live with it.


Got it. I just reread your post and I see what you were saying. I do agree that I trust KP's choice more that I have ever trusted a GM's decision making ability (at least in who to draft) than ever before. 

If Brewer is drafted I lose $50 in a bet, but that would be worth it if he pans out. Noah I think will slip but I think he will be better than most on this board give him credit for. If the Blazers do select Brewer, I would like the Blazers to get another mid round pick and try and select one of the following big players if they drop out of the top ten.

Hawes 
Noah
Jason Smith 

Of those three, Hawes is the only one who has a decent chance at being a semi-star, but Noah and Smith I think will be very good team players who could help the Blazers a lot.


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## c_note (Jan 30, 2007)

Mr. Chuck Taylor said:


> Brewer outplaying Webster isn't saying much.
> 
> Anyone else feel like the "Webster would only be a sophmore in college if he didnt come out" argument is on its last legs? I feel like if there are some GM's who still think he could be a star, we should see what we can get for him. This situation reminds me of the telfair trade - I had all but given up on him and yet we found good value for him based on his "potential". One year later Telfair is worth nothing, and I'm affraid thats what will happen with Webster. The question is, will we be the ones with nothing?


Webster will evolve into a solid player at the least. Just look at his game, he just needs a few improvements and he's there. Comparing him to Telfair isn't accurate either. Telfair is an undersized, shoot-first point guard. Except unlike Damon, he can't shoot. At least Webster has the physical tools. He just needs more time.


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## hasoos (Jan 3, 2003)

c_note said:


> Webster will evolve into a solid player at the least. Just look at his game, he just needs a few improvements and he's there. Comparing him to Telfair isn't accurate either. Telfair is an undersized, shoot-first point guard. Except unlike Damon, he can't shoot. At least Webster has the physical tools. He just needs more time.



One thing I think about a lot is how much Outlaw played his first two years, and how ugly his game looked. Martell, while not shooting great, looks to have many more pieces of his game together then Outlaw ever did, and is ahead of him in obtaining the physical level he needs to make it in the NBA.


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## Oldmangrouch (Feb 11, 2003)

yuyuza1 said:


> That bit on Webster concern anyone else? He should be dominating the players mentioned with his size and NBA experience.



Nope.

To be blunt, I had already surrendered to the idea that Webster was never going to be anything special.


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## BlazingHeat (Jul 16, 2004)

If we don't get extremely lucky and end up with one of the top two picks then Brewer has to be the pick if not I will be livid.


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## c_note (Jan 30, 2007)

hasoos said:


> One thing I think about a lot is how much Outlaw played his first two years, and how ugly his game looked. Martell, while not shooting great, looks to have many more pieces of his game together then Outlaw ever did, and is ahead of him in obtaining the physical level he needs to make it in the NBA.


Outlaw played like 8 games his first year with an average of 2.5 minutes or something. His second year he averaged 10 minutes or so.

I agree Outlaw was incredibly raw, and he has shown vast improvements since his first year.

BTW for all you Outlaw haters, look at Rashard Lewis's first 2 years, then his 3rd year where he averaged over 35 minutes or so. If you extrapolate Outlaw's numbers to Rashard's minutes, the numbers are pretty comparable.

Outlaw's first 2 years were almost a complete waste. He didn't play at all, so it's somewhat unfair to say he has 4 years of solid NBA experience. This past year was the first one that he got a real chance to show what he's worth. I'm confident he will improve even more next year given more minutes.


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## BuckW4GM (Nov 2, 2005)

Oldmangrouch said:


> To be blunt, I had already surrendered to the idea that Webster was never going to be anything special.


ditto. only positive i got out of that is knowing webster is working to improve his game.


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## hasoos (Jan 3, 2003)

c_note said:


> Outlaw played like 8 games his first year with an average of 2.5 minutes or something. His second year he averaged 10 minutes or so.
> 
> I agree Outlaw was incredibly raw, and he has shown vast improvements since his first year.
> 
> ...



I want to make sure I see what you are saying. You are saying if you ignore Travis first two years his career parallels Rashard Lewis career pretty closely? 

I can see what you are if you are saying that. I also can name a reason it makes sense, his name is Maurice Cheeks, one of the worst coaches ever. Reasons it doesn't is because Tim Grgurich was working with him those years, and he is a killer indidual development coach. 

The thing that concerns me is that Travis has never taken the step to deal with the physical element of NBA play yet(I hope he does if he stays a Blazer), and he has never learned how to finish in Traffic, which concerns me because some guys, never do. 

As that has been said, that is where my point about Martell still is true. He was already good enough physically and game wise to play his first 2 years, which is more then Outlaw did. To me that means he is ahead of where Outlaw was in his growth as a player, and will probably end up better if he just continues to grow his game.


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## dudleysghost (Mar 24, 2006)

zagsfan20 said:


> If Noah's a lottery pick he should be tearing it up against some of those big down there.
> 
> Adam Haluska, Marcel Jones, DaShaun Woods....? Gross.


Macel Jones is a SF, not a big man, and will be a better NBA player than Adam Morriosn. :clap2:


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## dudleysghost (Mar 24, 2006)

Martel not looking good against college guys his own age ... I wish I could say I was surprised.

Brewer would be a good choice if we still have our pick and don't win the lotto. I doubt whether he will be anything special on offense, but he should be a very good defender in the NBA. Like Bruce Bowen with a little more skill and without the nut-kicking.


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## c_note (Jan 30, 2007)

hasoos said:


> I want to make sure I see what you are saying. You are saying if you ignore Travis first two years his career parallels Rashard Lewis career pretty closely?


Not necessarily. I'm saying people are quick to write him off and say he won't improve. If they looked at the whole picture, they'd realize he didn't have much of a chance his first 2 years. The team was more competitive and under more pressure back then, they didn't want to take the risk of developing a high school guy. We all know real game experience is much more valuable than anything they learn in practice.

People say "OMG he's been in the league 4 years now, it never took ANYONE that long to develop. He's done, trade him away" etc....

Give me a break.


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## Oldmangrouch (Feb 11, 2003)

c_note said:


> Not necessarily. I'm saying people are quick to write him off and say he won't improve. If they looked at the whole picture, they'd realize he didn't have much of a chance his first 2 years. The team was more competitive and under more pressure back then, they didn't want to take the risk of developing a high school guy. We all know real game experience is much more valuable than anything they learn in practice.
> 
> People say "OMG he's been in the league 4 years now, it never took ANYONE that long to develop. He's done, trade him away" etc....
> 
> Give me a break.


The problem is, we have seen enough of Travis to have a pretty good idea of what he can and can't do. 

He is a poor ball-handler and passer. For all his hops, he doesn't rebound consistently or finish well in traffic. His man defense is just so-so.

He is good at coming from the weak side for blocks, and he can get his jumper off over darn near anyone.

At this point, the only thing Travis can realistically do to improve his value, is to become more consistent with his jumper. Even then, he will still be a "tweener" - lacking the handle to be a SF and the rebounding to be a PF.

I'm not rooting for the team to trade him, I just don't want them to over-pay for what he brings to the table.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

BlazingHeat said:


> If we don't get extremely lucky and end up with one of the top two picks then Brewer has to be the pick if not I will be livid.


You seriously think Brewer is going to be better than B. Wright?


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

dudleysghost said:


> Macel Jones is a SF, not a big man, and will be a better NBA player than Adam Morriosn. :clap2:


Hah, thats a good one.

Marcel Jones won't even sniff an NBA training camp.


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## Anonymous Gambler (May 29, 2006)

zagsfan20 said:


> Hah, thats a good one.
> 
> Marcel Jones won't even sniff an NBA training camp.


Morrison is very lucky that there are guaranteed contracts in the NBA. Rookie of the year, hah!

But he is better than a Marcel Jones and would make a fine addition to any Pac-10 team.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Anonymous Gambler said:


> Morrison is very lucky that there are guaranteed contracts in the NBA. Rookie of the year, hah!
> 
> But he is better than a Marcel Jones and would make a fine addition to any Pac-10 team.


Morrison's career is officially over. :lol:


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## dudleysghost (Mar 24, 2006)

zagsfan20 said:


> Hah, thats a good one.
> 
> Marcel Jones won't even sniff an NBA training camp.


He will, but not this year. He's actually pretty good. If you thought he was a big man, then you probably haven't ever seen him play, but he's got a pretty dynamic game, which includes defense and rebounding.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

dudleysghost said:


> He will, but not this year. He's actually pretty good. If you thought he was a big man, then you probably haven't ever seen him play, but he's got a pretty dynamic game, which includes defense and rebounding.


I don't think he's a big man, I have watched him play several times. He was an average Pac-10 SF. The only reason why I listed him was because he was one of the taller players in a weak group that was playing with Noah.


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## dudleysghost (Mar 24, 2006)

Anonymous Gambler said:


> Morrison is very lucky that there are guaranteed contracts in the NBA. Rookie of the year, hah!
> 
> But he is better than a Marcel Jones and would make a fine addition to any Pac-10 team.


Morrison was a great college player. Too bad he can't get somehow get paid to stay at that level.


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## Peaceman (Jan 15, 2003)

zagsfan20 said:


> You seriously think Brewer is going to be better than B. Wright?


I think what will make Brewer more attractive than B.Wright is defense and his natural ability to shut down players. I think Brewer will be the next defensive stopper, and his offense is going to be better than I think most people think. 
I love B.Wright, but wonder if he will develop his outside shooting. Both players are very good, but I actually think Brewer will not be there for Portland to take at Pick 6 or 7. If Portland ends up with B.Wright I would not complain unless Brewer was a option. I'm predicting Brewer will go at pick#4.


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## Storyteller (Dec 31, 2002)

Noah? Please.....

One need go no further than Billy Donovan to get the straight scoop. After all, Donovan confessed to Dick Vitale that Horford was a much better pro prospect than Noah and he didn't know why pro scouts were high on Noah. Then Dicky V. unintentionally let it slip in a radio interview....


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## Peaceman (Jan 15, 2003)

Storyteller said:


> Noah? Please.....
> 
> One need go no further than Billy Donovan to get the straight scoop. After all, Donovan confessed to Dick Vitale that Horford was a much better pro prospect than Noah and he didn't know why pro scouts were high on Noah. Then Dicky V. unintentionally let it slip in a radio interview....


I totally agree. I see Noah as a good defensive hustle player off the bench. Someone you don't run players for, sets good picks and player hard the full 20-25 minutes he is one the floor. I will be very surprised if he is better then that.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

dudleysghost said:


> Morrison was a great college player. Too bad he can't get somehow get paid to stay at that level.


Marcel Jones was a ****ty college player and never will play in the NBA.

Not that Marcel Jones has anything to do with Adam Morrison.

Not that Adam Morrison's rookie year makes or breaks a career.


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## ryanjend22 (Jan 23, 2004)

i fear we piss away a pick on noah.


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## TLo (Dec 27, 2006)

I'd be happy with Noah. He's going to be much better than Brewer in the NBA.


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## Peaceman (Jan 15, 2003)

TLo said:


> I'd be happy with Noah. He's going to be much better than Brewer in the NBA.


Why do you believe that? What about Noah gives you the indication he will be a great NBA player?


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## SheedSoNasty (Dec 31, 2002)

Peaceman said:


> Why do you believe that? What about Noah gives you the indication he will be a great NBA player?


The yelling.

All the yelling that he does on the court makes him "an emotional leader".

Yelling = Good basketball.

It's the yelling.


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## Peaceman (Jan 15, 2003)

SheedSoNasty said:


> The yelling.
> 
> All the yelling that he does on the court makes him "an emotional leader".
> 
> ...


Well, he does yell more than Oden and Durant. It looks like we have our #1 pick if we win the lottery. End the debate and speculation. 

"With the #1 pick the Portland TrailBlazers select: Joakim Noah from the University of Florida."


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## handclap problematic (Nov 6, 2003)

Peaceman said:


> Why do you believe that? What about Noah gives you the indication he will be a great NBA player?


Given TLo, or tlongs past, I would say he likes Noah over Brewer because Noah is taller. I would love to pick on him for it....but he has actually been pretty dead on with a couple of his picks. Remember, he was the one who was freaking out about us drafting Telfair over Jefferson. For the first year or two, peoeple still hassled him for it...but not so much anymore...hehe

So, Tlo like Noah. I don't....but I won't get on the guy too much......

prunetang


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## Utherhimo (Feb 20, 2005)

he has fire at least


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## SheedSoNasty (Dec 31, 2002)

Peaceman said:


> Well, he does yell more than Oden and Durant. It looks like we have our #1 pick if we win the lottery. End the debate and speculation.
> 
> "With the #1 pick the Portland TrailBlazers select: Joakim Noah from the University of Florida."


More like...

JOAKIM NOAH FROM THE UNIVERSITY OF FLORIDA!!!!


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## dudleysghost (Mar 24, 2006)

zagsfan20 said:


> Marcel Jones was a ****ty college player and never will play in the NBA.
> 
> Not that Marcel Jones has anything to do with Adam Morrison.
> 
> Not that Adam Morrison's rookie year makes or breaks a career.


Well, considering you thought Jones was a big man, when he's actually a small forward who isn't very big, I think you don't know what you are talking about. It's fine if you didn't watch the Beavers last year, beacuse there really was no reason to, but you shouldn't expect anyone to take your evaluation of a player seriously if you don't even know what position he plays. If you actually do ever watch him, you'll see a guy who has an NBA level of athletecism and a good all-around game who has a good chance at getting drafted next year.

You can get mad if you want, but I think I just busted you calling a player "gross" who you haven't even seen play. I do think he will be a better pro than Morrison, seriously. Not that Jones will be great, but just a decent role player, which is more than Morrison can say.

edit: I just saw your post where you claim to have seen Jones play. It sounds almost plausible. Either way, I still think your just hating him because I compared him to Morrison, who you are super defensive about. It's like when you bashed Aldridge for the same reason last summer. Like your prognosis for both Aldridge and Morrison back then, I think you are incorrect about Jones as well.


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## dudleysghost (Mar 24, 2006)

Peaceman said:


> I think what will make Brewer more attractive than B.Wright is defense and his natural ability to shut down players. I think Brewer will be the next defensive stopper, and his offense is going to be better than I think most people think.
> I love B.Wright, but wonder if he will develop his outside shooting. Both players are very good, but I actually think Brewer will not be there for Portland to take at Pick 6 or 7. If Portland ends up with B.Wright I would not complain unless Brewer was a option. I'm predicting Brewer will go at pick#4.


Wrigth-Horford-Brewer could very easily go 3-4-5, leaving us unable to draft any of them.

:sadbanana:


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## darkhelmit54 (Jan 23, 2005)

dudleysghost said:


> Martel not looking good against college guys his own age ... I wish I could say I was surprised.
> 
> Brewer would be a good choice if we still have our pick and don't win the lotto. I doubt whether he will be anything special on offense, but he should be a very good defender in the NBA. Like Bruce Bowen with a little more skill and without the nut-kicking.


it didn't say he didn't look good, just that Brewer in particular looked EVEN better.


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## mgb (Jun 26, 2004)

dudleysghost said:


> Wrigth-Horford-Brewer could very easily go 3-4-5, leaving us unable to draft any of them.
> 
> :sadbanana:


Especially considering we could be drafting at the 8th or 9th spot.


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## barfo (Jan 2, 2003)

mgb said:


> Especially considering we could be drafting at the 8th or 9th spot.


Or the first or second spot 

barfo


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

dudleysghost said:


> You can get mad if you want, but I think I just busted you calling a player "gross" who you haven't even seen play. I do think he will be a better pro than Morrison, seriously. Not that Jones will be great, but just a decent role player, which is more than Morrison can say.
> 
> edit: I just saw your post where you claim to have seen Jones play. It sounds almost plausible. Either way, I still think your just hating him because I compared him to Morrison, who you are super defensive about. It's like when you bashed Aldridge for the same reason last summer. Like your prognosis for both Aldridge and Morrison back then, I think you are incorrect about Jones as well.



Your writing Morrison's career off, which I think is very laughable. I'm not really sure if you believe that in your heart of hearts, or if you just like to say that to give me **** for being wrong about his rookie year.

I think he had a harder adjustment to the NBA for various reasons, including one that I know for a fact has to be hard on a rookie. I have all the confidence in the world he'll be fine.

Not sure why everything I say on this board revolves around Morrison. Nonetheless, about Aldridge, I'm sure you've been wrong as well. I can relay many times I was right about prospects as well.

Jones better go back to Oregon St. because shining on that weak *** team is the only hope that he has to get a training camp invite. He's an average Pac-10 SF and most of that has to do with his experience.


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## mgb (Jun 26, 2004)

barfo said:


> Or the first or second spot
> 
> barfo


Yes, then it'd be unlikely we'd take those three players.


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## craigehlo (Feb 24, 2005)

dudleysghost said:


> Wrigth-Horford-Brewer could very easily go 3-4-5, leaving us unable to draft any of them.


If the draft falls like that, Yi Jianlian is the best player left. I'd be happy with either him or Mike Conley Jr. Both could easily contribute and have real star potential.

I'm less enamored with Jeff Green and Julian Wright because we already have an athletic SF with an inconsistent jumpshot (Outlaw) on the roster.


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## Ukrainefan (Aug 1, 2003)

There's more on these workouts at Draftexpress http://www.draftexpress.com/viewarticle.php?a=2053

they seem to still like Noah a lot; I'm not sure why, it seems to be mostly based on his athleticism and enthusiasm.


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## YoYoYoWasup (Nov 14, 2004)

Ukrainefan said:


> There's more on these workouts at Draftexpress http://www.draftexpress.com/viewarticle.php?a=2053
> 
> they seem to still like Noah a lot; I'm not sure why, it seems to be mostly based on his athleticism and enthusiasm.


Jonathan's a Gator fan, so he might be a little biased towards Joakim. That said, he's always been a huge fan of Noah's.


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## Boob-No-More (Apr 24, 2006)

zagsfan20 said:


> Not that Adam Morrison's rookie year makes or breaks a career.


I think, at this point, we can all pretty much agree that his rookie performance didn't _make_ his career (unless his career goal is to be a second-stringer who shoots 37.6% with a PER of 7.9 on a lottery team) . Whether or not it breaks it is yet to be seen.

BNM


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## BBert (Dec 30, 2004)

mgb said:


> Especially considering we could be drafting at the 8th or 9th spot.


Think positive mgb! We have better odds of getting the #1 pick (5.3%) than the #8 (4.5%); and only 0.13% for the #9. Not going to happen! Added together, we have an 18% chance at a top 3 pick! :lucky: 

So dust off your lucky rabbit's foot. :biggrin: 

At least, that's according to this guy: http://mybasketballdepartment.blogspot.com/2007/04/final-draft-probabilities.html

(Hey, why couldn't I rename the link in my text?)


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## Masbee (Dec 31, 2002)

zagsfan20 said:


> Morrison's career is officially over. :lol:


No, but he has an uphill battle, and will have to overcome long odds.

He just came off a historically bad rookie season for a non-injured high pick 4 year college player.


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## Masbee (Dec 31, 2002)

dudleysghost said:


> Wrigth-Horford-Brewer could very easily go 3-4-5, leaving us unable to draft any of them.
> 
> :sadbanana:


Ooooh, that would suck. Leaving us with the mystery Chinese guy?

But, if we get him, then would trading Zach for Rashard Lewis make as much sense?

Wright or Horford allow us to trade Zach for Lewis and end up with a Lewis, Rookie, Aldridge frontline.

Brewer means we scratch the trade for Lewis, and keep Zach for a Brewer, Zach, Aldridge frontline.


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## GOD (Jun 22, 2003)

I just listened to a Chad Ford ESPN podcast (I think yesterdays, but could have been today's) and Chad interviewed Noah and Brewer. Fun interview, but the interesting question was the final question to Brewer.

Chad Ford asked Brewer if he could choose a team to go to, what team would he want. Brewer gave a nice PC answer but then Ford said that the ESPN Mock has him going to Portland with the 6th pick, and Brewer responded (Paraphrased) " I wouldn't mind going to Portland at all, they've got a lot of good young talent. I wouldn't mind playing alongside Brandon Roy at all"

I think he would have said something similar no matter what team was mentioned, but at least he didn't say anything bad, and specifically mentiond Roy in a good light, which was nice.


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## Peaceman (Jan 15, 2003)

Nate McVillain said:


> I just listened to a Chad Ford ESPN podcast (I think yesterdays, but could have been today's) and Chad interviewed Noah and Brewer. Fun interview, but the interesting question was the final question to Brewer.
> 
> Chad Ford asked Brewer if he could choose a team to go to, what team would he want. Brewer gave a nice PC answer but then Ford said that the ESPN Mock has him going to Portland with the 6th pick, and Brewer responded (Paraphrased) " I wouldn't mind going to Portland at all, they've got a lot of good young talent. I wouldn't mind playing alongside Brandon Roy at all"
> 
> I think he would have said something similar no matter what team was mentioned, but at least he didn't say anything bad, and specifically mentiond Roy in a good light, which was nice.


I really hope he ends up in Portland. I think he will be a 1st or 2nd all defensive team player for a long time. His offensive game is pretty good also and I could see him really be a great piece with our young Blazers. Unfortunately, I think he will flip-flop with Horford and end up being the #4 pick and Horford will the the #5.


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## dudleysghost (Mar 24, 2006)

zagsfan20 said:


> Your writing Morrison's career off, which I think is very laughable. I'm not really sure if you believe that in your heart of hearts, or if you just like to say that to give me **** for being wrong about his rookie year.
> 
> I think he had a harder adjustment to the NBA for various reasons, including one that I know for a fact has to be hard on a rookie. I have all the confidence in the world he'll be fine.
> 
> ...


I do like to give you bleep about Morrison, because you and the other Morrison-ites were so Adam-ant about how great he would be before draft time last year, and so harsh on his critics of Morrison's who turned out to be absolutely right. That, and you seem to have some need to cuss and bash other players and teams, who I still think you haven't even hardly seen play, when you're so homeristic about Morrison and the Zags. It's like a bad characature of a drunk irrational college sports fan, so yes I did give into temptation to incite, because it was just so easy and seemingly deserved.

But anyway, I know I might sound like Canzano trumpeting Pooh Jeter here, but I really think Jones can play in the NBA. Of course he is going back to OSU for a year. I don't know why shining on a weak team is supposedly more helpful to draft prospects than just being in the rotation of a good team, but whatever reason, Jones has the kind of game that will translate to the NBA. I bring up Morrison as a basis for comparison. Morrison had a lot of well-developed moves and was skilled at scoring against college defenses. Jones is raw and relatively less skilled, but he has the physical tools to succeed in the bigger/faster/stronger NBA game. As much as Morrison is built for the college game, Jones is built for the pros.

You can call that "writing off" Morrison if you want. I don't know exactly what that means, but I do think Morrison isn't a very good NBA player and doesn't have the body to ever be one. I certainly have been wrong about prospects, because I overestimated Morrison. I thought he would be a Keith Van Horn type player, but now it looks like he'd be lucky to reach Mike Dunleavy Jr. status. You can say all day that we can't predict how good he will be, and use all the LOL emoticaons you want, but you should realize that quite a few people feel that they have seen enough of Morrison to conclude that he just isn't very good. I'm not alone in this. Actually, I'd guess it is the group that still holds out hope for him ever achieving greatness that is diminishing and growing more lonely.


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## dudleysghost (Mar 24, 2006)

Masbee said:


> Ooooh, that would suck. Leaving us with the mystery Chinese guy?
> 
> But, if we get him, then would trading Zach for Rashard Lewis make as much sense?
> 
> ...


I have no idea about the Chinese guy, having never seen him play. I think it's pretty funny actually how many people are willing to comment on a guy like Yi as though they know much about him, because I'm pretty sure nobody around here has ever seen him play in more than a couple youtube videos and maybe one international game, if even that. Do people on this board really watch Chinese Basketball Association games? If so, who is your TV provider that gives you that channel?

Anyway, I agree about the draft determining how much we want to trade Zach. I've been saying that for a while, we need to take BPA in the draft and only after that decide how to balance the roster. If we get Brewer, who could we trade Zach for that makes sense? I think the frontline combo of Brewer-Zach-LMA has a great deal of complimentarity. They all do alot to make up for each other's weaknesses, and would give us a lineup that is potent and versatile on both sides of the ball.

If we get Durant, I'm more mixed on a Zach trade. Durant would cleanly slot in as the starting PF, but I'd worry about defense and having enough touches to go around with rookie Durant and Zach as the starting forwards. We could definitely go with that lineup and see if it works, but I suspect it might prove to be a suboptimal mix, and that moving Zach for an equivalent talent at the 1 or 5 might work better.

If we get Horford or B Wright though, a Zach for Lewis trade makes great sense, assuming we could make it happen. I'd be a little worried that Wright and Aldridge at PF/C wouldn't be enough beef, but both are still talented enough that we'd have to start them and find a way to make it work.

Or we could just get Oden, move LMA to PF, trade Zach for Lewis, and have ourselves a nice dynasty for the next 5-10 years.


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## Masbee (Dec 31, 2002)

dudleysghost said:


> I have no idea about the Chinese guy, having never seen him play. I think it's pretty funny actually how many people are willing to comment on a guy like Yi as though they know much about him, because I'm pretty sure nobody around here has ever seen him play in more than a couple youtube videos and maybe one international game, if even that. Do people on this board really watch Chinese Basketball Association games? If so, who is your TV provider that gives you that channel?


Which is why I said "mystery Chinese guy". I only mention him because he is so high in the mocks right now.


> Anyway, I agree about the draft determining how much we want to trade Zach. I've been saying that for a while, we need to take BPA in the draft and only after that decide how to balance the roster. If we get Brewer, who could we trade Zach for that makes sense? I think the frontline combo of Brewer-Zach-LMA has a great deal of complimentarity. They all do alot to make up for each other's weaknesses, and would give us a lineup that is potent and versatile on both sides of the ball.


If we ended up with Brewer as BPA, I kinda liked the potential for the Brewer, Zach, Aldridge combo. Surround Zach with two good defenders. Zach more than happy to take Brewer's shots as he eases into his NBA offense. I think it might work. Certainly little harm in giving it til the trade deadline or the next summer to see.


> If we get Durant, I'm more mixed on a Zach trade. Durant would cleanly slot in as the starting PF, but I'd worry about defense and having enough touches to go around with rookie Durant and Zach as the starting forwards. We could definitely go with that lineup and see if it works, but I suspect it might prove to be a suboptimal mix, and that moving Zach for an equivalent talent at the 1 or 5 might work better.


I think you mean slot Durant at Small forward. Which kills the need for trading for Lewis, as Lewis and Durant are redundant. If we move Zach for a 1, it better be a good one, as we are going thin on the front line. I would hope we could trade Zach for quality beef in that instance.


> If we get Horford or B Wright though, a Zach for Lewis trade makes great sense, assuming we could make it happen. I'd be a little worried that Wright and Aldridge at PF/C wouldn't be enough beef, but both are still talented enough that we'd have to start them and find a way to make it work.


I too would be concerned about a Lewis/Wright/Aldridge front line. Plenty tall enough. Plenty of reach. Not enough girth and muscle. However, a Sergio/Roy/Lewis/Wright/Aldridge lineup screams "RUN", and almost begs for an entirely new system than what McMillan wants to run. Would be an interesting dilema for the team if (mighty low probablity) 1)we vault to #3 pick and 2) somehow trade Zach for a re-signed Lewis. What to do? What to do?



> Or we could just get Oden, move LMA to PF, trade Zach for Lewis, and have ourselves a nice dynasty for the next 5-10 years.


As the poster who has been pimping for this franchise to go to great lengths to increase the odds of winning the "Oden" lottery for 2 years now (which the team ignored all my brilliant advice), you don't have clue me in on that fantasy.


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## Boob-No-More (Apr 24, 2006)

The more I see and read about Brewer, the more I'd like to see the Blazers get him. I don't think he'll be a superstar, or even necessarily an all-star, in the NBA, but I do think he has the potential to be the kind of game changing defender that helps win championships. He won't be a first, or even second, option on offense, but is good enough offensively he will make opponents pay when they leave him to double Aldridge or Roy. Basketball is a team game and it's played at both ends of the court. Brewer has proven himself to be a excellent defender and good team player on Florida's two NCAA championship teams. I'd much rather have someone like that than a guy who puts up better offensive numbers but contributes little else. This is a very deep and very talented draft. There are a lot of excellent prospects, but unless the Blazers end up with a top three pick, Brewer is the player I'd like to see them target.

Noah doesn't do as much for me. I do think he'll be a good energy guy, and decent defender and rebounder, but has a very poorly developed offensive game. He would be a good sixth or seventh man and a valuable role player, but I don't envision him as a starter on a championship caliber team. He's the kind of player I'd draft in the teens, or even in the 5 - 10 range it a typical draft. In this draft, there are easily 10 - 12 players I'd rather have. So, unless the Blazers trade down or acquire a second pick in the teens, I'd pass on Noah.

BNM


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## dudleysghost (Mar 24, 2006)

Masbee said:


> Which is why I said "mystery Chinese guy". I only mention him because he is so high in the mocks right now.


Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you were in that group. But it sure does seem like there are many people on the message boards that will testify about how good a player is when they have never even seen him play. When we had a thread here comparing Aldridge and Bargnani, we had some Toronto fans come in and do that. A few of them obviously hadn't seen Aldridge play ever, but they still felt as though they could confidently talk about his game on a Blazer board.

Talk of draft prospects makes this even more obvious. How many of us ever have the chance to see a foreign prospect like Yi, Batum, Belinelli, Fernandez or Splitter in a real live game? Probably none of us, and yet there are plenty of people who feel qualified to say how good or bad one of these guys is. I think it's fine to go by the draft boards and comments as a guideline, but when people read them and repeat that stuff as though it's their own observations ... I just think that's kind of funny.



Masbee said:


> As the poster who has been pimping for this franchise to go to great lengths to increase the odds of winning the "Oden" lottery for 2 years now (which the team ignored all my brilliant advice), you don't have clue me in on that fantasy.


Oh yeah, I actually knew that when I wrote that. :biggrin: The team did take out Ime, LMA, Roy and Zach late in the season, Joel in the middle, and never used the MLE to add veteran talent. We traded our starting point guard last summer for a Magloire. I wish we had more ping-pong combos as well, but I don't know what else management could have reasonably done to get them for us, short of deliberately throwing games.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Masbee said:


> No, but he has an uphill battle, and will have to overcome long odds.
> 
> He just came off a historically bad rookie season for a non-injured high pick 4 year college player.


He went to school for 3 years and I wouldn't classify it as historically bad. He was in the run for rookie of the year for the first half of the season and was voted 2nd team All Rookie.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

dudleysghost said:


> I do like to give you bleep about Morrison, because you and the other Morrison-ites were so Adam-ant about how great he would be before draft time last year, and so harsh on his critics of Morrison's who turned out to be absolutely right. That, and you seem to have some need to cuss and bash other players and teams, who I still think you haven't even hardly seen play, when you're so homeristic about Morrison and the Zags. It's like a bad characature of a drunk irrational college sports fan, so yes I did give into temptation to incite, because it was just so easy and seemingly deserved.
> 
> But anyway, I know I might sound like Canzano trumpeting Pooh Jeter here, but I really think Jones can play in the NBA. Of course he is going back to OSU for a year. I don't know why shining on a weak team is supposedly more helpful to draft prospects than just being in the rotation of a good team, but whatever reason, Jones has the kind of game that will translate to the NBA. I bring up Morrison as a basis for comparison. Morrison had a lot of well-developed moves and was skilled at scoring against college defenses. Jones is raw and relatively less skilled, but he has the physical tools to succeed in the bigger/faster/stronger NBA game. As much as Morrison is built for the college game, Jones is built for the pros.
> 
> You can call that "writing off" Morrison if you want. I don't know exactly what that means, but I do think Morrison isn't a very good NBA player and doesn't have the body to ever be one. I certainly have been wrong about prospects, because I overestimated Morrison. I thought he would be a Keith Van Horn type player, but now it looks like he'd be lucky to reach Mike Dunleavy Jr. status. You can say all day that we can't predict how good he will be, and use all the LOL emoticaons you want, but you should realize that quite a few people feel that they have seen enough of Morrison to conclude that he just isn't very good. I'm not alone in this. Actually, I'd guess it is the group that still holds out hope for him ever achieving greatness that is diminishing and growing more lonely.


A.) I love it when people who don't know me make assumptions of how much college basketball I've watched. 

I watch more college ball than pro ball I think I know a thing or two about the game. I have seen a lot better players than Marcel Jones get passed up by NBA teams. James White is the first player that came to my mind. Heck, I think Cuic was more valuable to that lowly team anyway.

B.) We'll see how he comes back from this off-season. 


C.) I've sensed from a lot of your posts that you are pretty full of yourself. Sounds like someone needs a hobby rather than stroking their ego on a message board.


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## SheedSoNasty (Dec 31, 2002)

I love how so many threads turn into Adam Morrison debates... :thumbdown:


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## dudleysghost (Mar 24, 2006)

zagsfan20 said:


> A.) I love it when people who don't know me make assumptions of how much college basketball I've watched.
> 
> I watch more college ball than pro ball I think I know a thing or two about the game. I have seen a lot better players than Marcel Jones get passed up by NBA teams. James White is the first player that came to my mind. Heck, I think Cuic was more valuable to that lowly team anyway.
> 
> ...


Say whatever you want about my ego. Honestly I don't care. If you don't like it, ignore is a viable option. I know you have a compulsion to act like Morrison's lawyer and defend him from all allegations, true or not, but if you resent those making the allegations, that's your problem.

I am making an assumption about how much college ball you've seen, or at least the Beavers. They were hardly even on TV last year, and most Beaver fans don't even watch them. You claim to know a thing or two about the game (who has ego?), even after being so wrong about Morrison and Aldridge after talking as though you were so certain. That's fine, although I don't know why you don't seem to realize that damaged your credibility. If it's true that you know something about scouting, you should know that how much you "contribute" on a college team isn't such a great indicator of how good an NBA prospect will be. Morrison was the MVP of college ball, and is a non-factor in the league. Cuic is a decent college player, but even if he wasn't going back to Europe, he doesn't have the things that make someone an NBA player. The prerequisites for success at the different levels just aren't the same.

You should also be aware that James White is in the NBA. The Blazers drafted him for Indy at 31. They didn't have the roster room to keep him though, so they cut him, and the Spurs picked him up and gave him a contract (unless you are talking about another James White?).


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## dudleysghost (Mar 24, 2006)

SheedSoNasty said:


> I love how so many threads turn into Adam Morrison debates... :thumbdown:


Sorry. Did I meantion that I like Brewer? :biggrin: :clap2: 

I also want to give a ditto to this statement by BNM:



BMN said:


> The more I see and read about Brewer, the more I'd like to see the Blazers get him. I don't think he'll be a superstar, or even necessarily an all-star, in the NBA, but I do think he has the potential to be the kind of game changing defender that helps win championships. He won't be a first, or even second, option on offense, but is good enough offensively he will make opponents pay when they leave him to double Aldridge or Roy. Basketball is a team game and it's played at both ends of the court. Brewer has proven himself to be a excellent defender and good team player on Florida's two NCAA championship teams.


I also agree with what he said about Noah. I think Noah is a good college player, and isn't going to be totally useless in the NBA, but I think he lacks the build to be great in the league, and I think he is overrated by many fans because of how much they like his "passion" and competitive fire. He's this year's Adam Morrison! :lol:


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## Anonymous Gambler (May 29, 2006)

Noah and Morrison have little similarity in my mind- Noah is pretty athletic in addition to having the "intangibles." He may never be an all-star, but he should be a solid defensive force with his non-stop motor.

And as for all the Morrison bashing- I think it's a necessary counterbalance to the irrational "next Larry Bird" posts that we all had to read from Zags and his ilk.

Finally, I love Brewer's potential. I compare him most to an Igoudola type and would love to have him.

My wish list- Durant, Oden, Wright, Brewer- I'll be happy if we get any one of them!


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## hasoos (Jan 3, 2003)

SheedSoNasty said:


> I love how so many threads turn into Adam Morrison debates... :thumbdown:


I guess you could say we have a lot of Adam Morrison masterdebaters on this forum.:lol:


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## #10 (Jul 23, 2004)

draft express  interview with Brewer


> Corey Brewer: I’ve got work on my ball-handling a whole lot and just get better skill-wise; shooting off the dribble and just shooting period. I’m trying to get stronger, that’s the main thing.


I thought this part was interesting, the guy certainly knows his weaknesses. Refreshing to see some honesty out of a player, especially one who, after two championships, has an excuse to be a bit arrogant.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

dudleysghost said:


> You should also be aware that James White is in the NBA. The Blazers drafted him for Indy at 31. They didn't have the roster room to keep him though, so they cut him, and the Spurs picked him up and gave him a contract (unless you are talking about another James White?).


I wasn't referring to James White about being drafted, I know he was drafted. I'm referring to James White in the sense that you said that since he's athletic he'll have a place in the league. There was many times this year where we saw glimpses of what Morrison's capable of.

Jones isn't going to get drafted if he comes out this year and unlikely that he'll get drafted next year. 

In my world a shaky rookie year does not make or break a career. It might seem legit to you right now in your crusade to prove me wrong, but I don't think that he is going to be throughout his career what he is right now. Nor do I think many league execs do either.


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## Masbee (Dec 31, 2002)

zagsfan20 said:


> He went to school for 3 years and I wouldn't classify it as historically bad. He was in the run for rookie of the year for the first half of the season and was voted 2nd team All Rookie.


Undeservedly so.

Ok, I correct my post to historically bad among 3 or 4 year college players, etc. You still will be sorely pressed to find an NBA player who had an average or above NBA career that started out with such a poor rookie season. Please illuminate me if I have got amnesia about these multiple examples.

As for the "in the running" for the ROY. Don't even f'ng try that. Only poorly informed basketball observers considered him a legit candidate at any time during the season. Some fools think PPG is the ONLY thing that matters. (see All-Rookie team) Good for them. But I consider those unfortunate souls morons.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Masbee said:


> Undeservedly so.
> 
> Ok, I correct my post to historically bad among 3 or 4 year college players, etc. You still will be sorely pressed to find an NBA player who had an average or above NBA career that started out with such a poor rookie season. Please illuminate me if I have got amnesia about these multiple examples.
> 
> As for the "in the running" for the ROY. Don't even f'ng try that. Only poorly informed basketball observers considered him a legit candidate at any time during the season. Some fools think PPG is the ONLY thing that matters. (see All-Rookie team) Good for them. But I consider those unfortunate souls morons.


So your saying he wasn't in the running for the ROY in the first half of the season?

I believe he was. 

Whether you agree with them or not is your deal.


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## Superblaze (Aug 6, 2006)

Just say NO to Noah, Brewer or Horford is the way to go unless we get a top 3 pick.


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## Masbee (Dec 31, 2002)

zagsfan20 said:


> So your saying he wasn't in the running for the ROY in the first half of the season?
> 
> I believe he was.
> 
> Whether you agree with them or not is your deal.


I am saying, regardless of weather some (uniformed IMO) had him "in the running", HE STUNK.

He stunk early. He stunk middle. He stunk late.

There was no point in the season he was worthy of ROY.

PERIOD.

For a player given so many minutes, he had a bad season - for a rookie - let alone the entire population of NBA players.

Normally, I wouldn't go on, but you are trying to find some silver lining in a poor showing. I am not sure why. To claim he didn't have a bad season because some folks who don't pay that much attention or are morons had Morrison "in the running", somehow means he did NOT have a bad season is very poor logic.

It doesn't work.

He could have won awards, even rookie of the year. Yet with the season he had, I would still say - HE STUNK.

Maybe he will be better next season. And really, that would be fine with me if he does. I am not rooting against the guy.


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## dudleysghost (Mar 24, 2006)

zagsfan20 said:


> I wasn't referring to James White about being drafted, I know he was drafted. I'm referring to James White in the sense that you said that since he's athletic he'll have a place in the league. There was many times this year where we saw glimpses of what Morrison's capable of.
> 
> Jones isn't going to get drafted if he comes out this year and unlikely that he'll get drafted next year.
> 
> In my world a shaky rookie year does not make or break a career. It might seem legit to you right now in your crusade to prove me wrong, but I don't think that he is going to be throughout his career what he is right now. Nor do I think many league execs do either.


I guess I don't get what your point about White is. He does have a place in the league. Indiana traded 3 second round picks to get him. And even though they eventually had to cut him because of roster constraints, he's on an NBA roster right now and he has a guaranteed contract through next year. He's nothing spectacular, but seems to me to be a perfect example of a guy getting into the NBA based mostly on athleticism.

But anyway, I never said Morrison wouldn't improve, or that he would be what he is now throughout his career. That's a mischaracterization of what I said. Didn't you see, I compared him to Mike Dunleavy Jr? He would have to improve quite a bit to actually reach that status, so clearly I'm not discounting the possibility that he will get better than he was last year.


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## dudleysghost (Mar 24, 2006)

Anonymous Gambler said:


> Noah and Morrison have little similarity in my mind- Noah is pretty athletic in addition to having the "intangibles." He may never be an all-star, but he should be a solid defensive force with his non-stop motor.
> 
> And as for all the Morrison bashing- I think it's a necessary counterbalance to the irrational "next Larry Bird" posts that we all had to read from Zags and his ilk.
> 
> ...


No Horford on the list? I think that raises an interesting question. Given the choice between the two, would people here take Horford or Brewer? For me it's a tough call. I think both will be great role players in the league, but neither will be true superstars. I'm thinking Brewer will be something like Bruce Bowen, but with a lot more offensive skills. Horford I see as maybe like Carlos Boozer, but with better defense and much less offense. I guess if I had to, I might pick Brewer, only because I think his upside might be a little higher, but it's a very tough call. Horford I think is more of a sure thing.


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## drexlersdad (Jun 3, 2006)

dudleysghost said:


> Wrigth-Horford-Brewer could very easily go 3-4-5, leaving us unable to draft any of them.
> 
> :sadbanana:



YI!!!


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## BIG Q (Jul 8, 2005)

Here is what now has me concerned with drafting Brewer, who I have initially been clamoring for;



> Jonathan Givony: Do you see yourself as more of a 2 or a 3 in the NBA?
> 
> Corey Brewer: Probably more of a 2. I feel like I’m more of a 2 in the NBA.


With B. Roy and Webster in the fold, are we looking for another two guard? I know we are looking at BPA, but I do not have him higher than J. Wright. I just loved his length, defense and three point ability from the wing as a SF. If he sees himself as a SG, then I move J. Wright to the top of my list because he can defend, has an NBA body now and also can score. He does need to work on his shot, but so does Brewer. Thoughts?


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## Kmurph (May 7, 2003)

I don't think the book has been written yet on Morrison...particularly after 1 year...Yeah he struggled...moreso than I thought he would...but I think that diesn't signifiy him as a bust or not worthy of where he was drafted...yet...

As for James White....Indy spent 3? 2nd round picks for a player they cut before the season began...that doesn't seem like a good move to me....the fact that SA picked him up doesn't change the fact that he is at best right now the 13th-15th man on a team...IMO meaning, he is barely holding on to a roster spot.... 

and I doubt Marcel Jones will even be drafted...and I think it is even a longer shot that he makes an NBA roster....let alone become a contributing member for an NBA team....


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## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

BIG Q said:


> Here is what now has me concerned with drafting Brewer, who I have initially been clamoring for;
> 
> With B. Roy and Webster in the fold, are we looking for another two guard? I know we are looking at BPA, but I do not have him higher than J. Wright. I just loved his length, defense and three point ability from the wing as a SF. If he sees himself as a SG, then I move J. Wright to the top of my list because he can defend, has an NBA body now and also can score. He does need to work on his shot, but so does Brewer. Thoughts?


Just as with last year, Martell Webster is not a good reason to avoid drafting a SG.

Roy can play the 1, 2 and possibly 3. Brewer appears to be able to play the 2 and 3. Webster can't play much at this point in his career, but could develop into a solid 2/3. If Webster develops into a stud, we've got an interesting predicament, but one where we could trade him (or Brewer, though I'd prefer to keep Brewer thanks to his defensive abilities) to somebody for a very solid pick or prospect. I'd rather have too much talent at one position than to pass up an excelllent prospect because of Martell Webster.


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## hasoos (Jan 3, 2003)

Fork said:


> Just as with last year, Martell Webster is not a good reason to avoid drafting a SG.
> 
> Roy can play the 1, 2 and possibly 3. Brewer appears to be able to play the 2 and 3. Webster can't play much at this point in his career, but could develop into a solid 2/3. If Webster develops into a stud, we've got an interesting predicament, but one where we could trade him (or Brewer, though I'd prefer to keep Brewer thanks to his defensive abilities) to somebody for a very solid pick or prospect. I'd rather have too much talent at one position than to pass up an excelllent prospect because of Martell Webster.


That is one predicament I would rather have for a change, rather then going through the year with nobody answering the bell but Roy.


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## mook (Dec 31, 2002)

at 6-9, Brewer is pretty big to play shooting guard. Rip Hamilton or Allen Iverson leaving him in the dust a few times might make him seriously re-evaluate his idea of what position he's best suited for. 

I think it's the nature of many players to always want to be at a position where they are taller than others at that position. it gives you a psychological edge to be looking down on your defender. it makes it easier to see over him. it often makes it easier to defend in the post. these are all aspects that make the individual look better on the court, but it does not necessarily make the team perform better. 

if your team is constantly scrambling to pick up the guy who has out-quicked you because he's smaller, the personal preference has to take a back seat to what's better for the team.


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## Peaceman (Jan 15, 2003)

BIG Q said:


> Here is what now has me concerned with drafting Brewer, who I have initially been clamoring for;
> 
> 
> 
> With B. Roy and Webster in the fold, are we looking for another two guard? I know we are looking at BPA, but I do not have him higher than J. Wright. I just loved his length, defense and three point ability from the wing as a SF. If he sees himself as a SG, then I move J. Wright to the top of my list because he can defend, has an NBA body now and also can score. He does need to work on his shot, but so does Brewer. Thoughts?


Honestly who care how Brewer sees himself. The SG and SF position are almost interchangable with most teams as long as the SF can handle the ball some and can play good position defense. Brewer guarded PG, SG, SF and PF in college. I see no reason he couldn't guard all but PF in the NBA. With his length and wingspan I don’t see anything that would prevent him from guarding PG’s, SG’s or SF’s. Against teams like Golden State or Phoenix, he could easily guard there PF. 

Looking at most of the NBA mock draft top ten players, he is IMO the most versatile player especially on defense.


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## dudleysghost (Mar 24, 2006)

Kmurph said:


> I don't think the book has been written yet on Morrison...particularly after 1 year...Yeah he struggled...moreso than I thought he would...but I think that diesn't signifiy him as a bust or not worthy of where he was drafted...yet...
> 
> As for James White....Indy spent 3? 2nd round picks for a player they cut before the season began...that doesn't seem like a good move to me....the fact that SA picked him up doesn't change the fact that he is at best right now the 13th-15th man on a team...IMO meaning, he is barely holding on to a roster spot....
> 
> and I doubt Marcel Jones will even be drafted...and I think it is even a longer shot that he makes an NBA roster....let alone become a contributing member for an NBA team....


Here's a though exercise. If the 2006 draft were held again, how many guys would you pick ahead of Morrison? I can think of about 20. Since he was picked 3rd, I think that's a good sign he is a bust.

It wasn't a good move for Indy to trade for White and then trade him. They didn't anticipate the Dallas trade and the Al Harrington acquisition would overflow their roster at forward though. They only cut White because they had to get under 15 players. He is the 15th or so man on a very deep San Antonio team, but they gave him a guaranteed 2 seasons on his contract. Guys who barely hold onto the roster spot are given 10-day or rest of season contracts. Guys who get 2 guaranteed years right off the bat are ones that are seen as likely to stick around.


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## dudleysghost (Mar 24, 2006)

Brewer is a SF. There's no question. Tyrus Thomas last year was quoted saying he thought he was a SG as well. I don't know what it is about forwards wanting to be guards, but I wouldn't put any stock in it. If we draft Brewer he won't start at any position other than SF, probably ever.


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## Peaceman (Jan 15, 2003)

dudleysghost said:


> Brewer is a SF. There's no question. Tyrus Thomas last year was quoted saying he thought he was a SG as well. I don't know what it is about forwards wanting to be guards, but I wouldn't put any stock in it. If we draft Brewer he won't start at any position other than SF, probably ever.


To add to your point, Brewer probably could play SG also. Is he ideal, maybe not, but I would bet in a year or two he would be a great defensive SG. The guy is very quick and his freakish long arms will help a lot to prevent dribble penetration. I wouldn’t rule out him playing some SG with Roy at PG if he comes to Portland.


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## dudleysghost (Mar 24, 2006)

Peaceman said:


> To add to your point, Brewer probably could play SG also. Is he ideal, maybe not, but I would bet in a year or two he would be a great defensive SG. The guy is very quick and his freakish long arms will help a lot to prevent dribble penetration. I wouldn’t rule out him playing some SG with Roy at PG if he comes to Portland.


That could definitely happen, in an unusual matchup situation or if the roster is short with injury. He definitely has some versatility on defense, and that can't do anything but help us.


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## Boob-No-More (Apr 24, 2006)

Pritchard seems to really like guys who are versatile and can play more than one position. He also values guys who can play well at both ends of the court. That's why we ended up with Aldridge (4/5) and Roy (2/1) with our top two picks in last year's draft. Brewer is EXACTLY this same type of versatile player who can defend more than one position. Yes, he may be first and foremost a SF, but depending on the match-ups, he may slide to the 2 when Roy is at the 1. A big line-up of Roy, Brewer, Outlaw, Aldridge and Przybilla would give the Blazers excellent size at all five spots, great defense and the ability to run the court. It wouldn't be their main line-up, but would be great for a change of pace in certain situations.

Also, if they get Brewer, I envision him becoming the kind of lock down defender that, regardless where he plays on offense, will end up guarding the better offensive player of the other teams' 2 and 3.

Assuming they don't get a top 3 pick, I still think he's the player the Blazers will target. Heck, even if they get the 3rd pick, they may look to trade down a spot or two and take Brewer. Most of the guys I like at 3 - 5 (Horford, B. Wright, Yi Jianlian) seem redundant with Aldridge. Obviously, if they are lucky enough to get a top two pick, they keep it and grab a future 10-plus time all-star in Oden or Durant. At 3, if Brewer's their guy, I can see them selecting one of Horford, Wright, or Yi Jianlian, and trading their rights for Brewer plus a future pick or additional player (perhaps unloading a contract in the process). Of course, I'd love to get Oden or Durant, but other than those two, Brewer is the player who excites me most in this draft. Not only does he fill a need at the 3, I think he's a great fit with this team and the direction they are headed. Depending on where they end up picking, this may be a rare case where BPA, need and fit all point to the same player.

BNM


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## Boob-No-More (Apr 24, 2006)

I also like the fact that Brewer, like Brandon Roy, finds other ways to make significant contributions when his shot isn't falling. Everybody has occasional bad shooting nights. In those situations, guys like Brewer and Roy still find ways to help their team win.

Finally, the clincher. Brewer's hometown - Portland, TN. It was meant to be. Like Roy for ROY, Brewer from Portland, TN to Portland, OR. Seems like fate. He BELONGS in Portland.

BNM


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## Kmurph (May 7, 2003)

> Here's a though exercise. If the 2006 draft were held again, how many guys would you pick ahead of Morrison? I can think of about 20. Since he was picked 3rd, I think that's a good sign he is a bust.


20 guys? Come on now.....You are seriously stretching here...I'd love to see your list b\c I looked back on that draft and I don't see it...I doubt many other people would either....

and the assumption that one year makes the guy a bust is beyond ludicrous...talk about unreal expectations....He was ranked among the top 5 for rookie of the year...if you recall...Did I think he deserved to be? No...but nonetheless the higher powers judging such things thought so...

Morrison struggled no doubt about that...but all I was saying is that his rookie year doesn't necessarily define his ENTIRE pro career...as you seem to automatically think it does...Seriously that is a ridiculous leap you are making there....and BTW his 1st year wasn't that abyssmal as you and others make it out to be...



> Guys who get 2 guaranteed years right off the bat are ones that are seen as likely to stick around.


and I wonder if SA would sweat cutting him loose tomorrow...you know...losing all that money....somehow I doubt it....So he isn't a 10-day guy...but 15th man on any team is one step from the NBDL or Europe in any case...guaranteed contract or no...


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

Kmurph said:


> 20 guys? Come on now.....You are seriously stretching here...I'd love to see your list b\c I looked back on that draft and I don't see it...I doubt many other people would either....


Let's see.

1. Bargnani
2. Aldridge
3. Thomas
4. Shelden Williams
5. Roy
6. Foy
7. Gay
8. Sefolosha
9. Brewer
10. Carney
11. Rondo
12. Marcus Williams
13. Sergio
14. Millsap

That's as far as I can go, and a couple of those guys are kinda borderline. Maybe I'd take Morrison 12 or 13...

Ed O.


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## dudleysghost (Mar 24, 2006)

Kmurph said:


> 20 guys? Come on now.....You are seriously stretching here...I'd love to see your list b\c I looked back on that draft and I don't see it...I doubt many other people would either....
> 
> and the assumption that one year makes the guy a bust is beyond ludicrous...talk about unreal expectations....He was ranked among the top 5 for rookie of the year...if you recall...Did I think he deserved to be? No...but nonetheless the higher powers judging such things thought so...
> 
> Morrison struggled no doubt about that...but all I was saying is that his rookie year doesn't necessarily define his ENTIRE pro career...as you seem to automatically think it does...Seriously that is a ridiculous leap you are making there....and BTW his 1st year wasn't that abyssmal as you and others make it out to be...


I never said Morrison's rookie year defines his entire pro career. That's a mischaracterization. I am saying that his rookie year helped demonstrate what many of of already knew, that he isn't athletic or skilled enough to be a great offensive player, or even a decent defensive player. He isn't quick enough to get his shot off under pressure like he did in college, he isn't big and strong enough to fight for rebounds and he isn't big fast and strong enough to play good defense. His rookie season didn't "define" that, it just demonstrated it.

And if you don't think his top 5 ROY status is legit, why do you think it's good evidence? I think Morrison got ROY consideration because he had huge hype, because he was drafted highly, because he went to a team that had minutes and touches for him, and because it was a pretty weak year for ROY candidates (Garbajosa?). Morrison was an experienced college player and supposedly NBA ready as well, which makes it even more stark that he really wasn't a legit ROY candidate.

But of course, being a great draftee isn't about placing in the ROY balloting (Damon Stoudamire finished way ahead of Kevin Garnett...), but rather about who the best prospect long term is. You want my list of guys I would pick instead of Morrison, here it is:

Bargnani
LMA
Tyrus Thomas
Shelden Williams
B Roy
Foye
Gay
Sefolosha
Brewer
Simmons
Carney
Balkman
Rondo
Marcus Williams
Boone
Lowry
Sergio
Farmar
Mardy Collins
Craig Smith
Daniel Gibson
Alex Johnson
Millsap

I think it's more than 20, and I'm sure there are guys who came in the league young and didn't get a chance to play who will emerge in the next couple years as well, and possibly create more value for their teams than Morrison will for his. Maybe you might disagree with a few names, but even if you made your own list, it would be a lot longer than three names, wouldn't it?



Kmurph said:


> and I wonder if SA would sweat cutting him loose tomorrow...you know...losing all that money....somehow I doubt it....So he isn't a 10-day guy...but 15th man on any team is one step from the NBDL or Europe in any case...guaranteed contract or no...


San Antonio is one of the most fiscally responsible franchises in the league. They compete every year and never go over the lux tax threshold. They also almost never overpay for a player. The last time I think they did was Rasho Nesterovic many years ago, and they eventually moved him for expiring contracts. They don't go signing guys to guaranteed years and then waiving them.

If James White was such a marginal player, one step from leaving the NBA, then there wouldn't be any teams competing for him and SA could have just given him one guaranteed year, with maybe a team option for the second. I don't know how else to put it; the fact that they gave him a second guaranteed year means they thought he was worth a commitment. Teams don't have a reason to commit to a player who isn't considered good enough to leverage a guaranteed contract. It's fairly uncommon to waive a player with guaranteed money on his deal (which is why Indy waived White in the first place instead of some other guys), and if SA thought he was good enough to give guaranteed money too, and Indy thought he was good enough to trade 3 second round picks for, then it seems pretty likely some other team out there who will pick him up if he were to find himself without an NBA team.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

dudleysghost said:


> But of course, being a great draftee isn't about placing in the ROY balloting (Damon Stoudamire finished way ahead of Kevin Garnett...), but rather about who the best prospect long term is. You want my list of guys I would pick instead of Morrison, here it is:
> 
> Bargnani
> LMA
> ...



Okay, nevermind anything I've debated you. You just flat-out dislike Morrison. 

Gonzaga didn't get a chance to smack down that lowly Beavers program, so I'm not really sure where the hatred comes from.


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

dudleysghost said:


> Brewer is a SF. There's no question. Tyrus Thomas last year was quoted saying he thought he was a SG as well.


I'm sure you're a little confused here. Around the time the pre-draft measurements came out Thomas raised some eyebrows by saying he saw himself projecting in the league as a SF and not a PF like he was in college. The pre-draft measurements (6.7'1/4, 217 pounds, 7'3 wingspan) showed him to be a 3/4 tweener.

I'm very curious to see how Brewer measures out but I'm guessing that you're correct in your SF projection.

STOMP


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## Kmurph (May 7, 2003)

> Okay, nevermind anything I've debated you. You just flat-out dislike Morrison.


Obviously he does



> I never said Morrison's rookie year defines his entire pro career. That's a mischaracterization


You clarify that now, but your earlier post certainly implied that...you mentioned how you thought there were 20 better players than him and since he was the 3rd pick he was a bust...you stated that word...did you not? This after 1 year of play, correct?....Now you have clarified that isn't the case...fine...let's see how he does these next few years then before you start throwing out that label on him then....



> And if you don't think his top 5 ROY status is legit, why do you think it's good evidence?


Why? b\c higher powers than you or I on NBA matters obviously thought he was...that is the point

As for you top 20 list...again you just prove how much this is more of a personal dislike for a player...which is fine man, but just say that...but a fair portion of those players had as bad or worse rookie seasons than Morrison did, yet you would still rate them higher than Morrison in a 2006 draft do-over...talk about bias against a player...come on man...TRY to at least be objective here.....


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

Kmurph said:


> Obviously he does.


*dudleysghost* only mentions on court issues in discussing why he doesn't think Morrison is/will be a good player... why try to make it a personal like/dislike issue when there is so many shortcomings in AM's game to point to? Being both undersized and a very poor athlete at the super athletic wing position he plays is a bad combination. The 37% he shot from the field would flat suck if he was a role player in for his D and floorgame, but it's horrifically bad for a guy who is primarily a shooter/scorer... lose your job to Derrick Anderson bad.

Adam's terrible rookie year doesn't guarantee that he'll end up a bust, but... given that no one here can come up with a single example of a NBA player past who stayed in college for as long as he did, was healthy and got regular rotation level minutes his rookie year, struggled mightily, and then years later came on to enjoy a productive career... the odds of this happening are loooong. Thats what is obvious.

STOMP


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## mook (Dec 31, 2002)

I don't know that there are 20 guys i would've drafted ahead of Morrison. Steve Kerr would've been a top 20 pick in that draft, after all, and I think eventually Morrison will have a similar NBA role.

But he certainly wasn't worth a top 10 pick.


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## Kmurph (May 7, 2003)

> Adam's terrible rookie year doesn't guarantee that he'll end up a bust, but... given that no one here can come up with a single example of a NBA player past who stayed in college for as long as he did, was healthy and got regular rotation level minutes his rookie year, struggled mightily, and then years later came on to enjoy a productive career... the odds of this happening are loooong. Thats what is obvious.



I like that if you set the parameters strict enough, you think you can help sell your misbegotten point...how convenient...

As long as he did? IS 3 years is the definitive quantifier here?

Well I certainly think that _some_ of these guys would apply to your parameters

Gary Payton
http://www.realgm.com/src_playerfile/192/gary_payton/

Jason Terry
http://www.realgm.com/src_playerfile/79/jason_terry/

Dan Marjerle
http://www.realgm.com/src_playerfile/264/dan_majerle/

Kyle Korver
http://www.realgm.com/src_playerfile/879/kyle_korver/

Joe Johnson
http://www.realgm.com/src_playerfile/366/joe_johnson/

Kirk Hinrich
http://www.realgm.com/src_playerfile/835/kirk_hinrich/

Allan Housten
http://www.realgm.com/src_playerfile/65/allan_houston/

Ron Artest
http://www.realgm.com/src_playerfile/2/ron_artest/

Chauncy Billups
http://www.realgm.com/src_playerfile/310/chauncey_billups/

Of course if you want me to measure how Morrison compares with other NBA players who: Played at minimum 3 years in college, were in a major\semi-major conference, were the go-to guy of said team, were a top 5 pick.....came to the NBA, and at least averaged 10 shots per game and 25+ minutes per game, were\or did start within 5% of the 33% of thier games for their respective NBA team AT the same position that Morrison did AND that all other stats (rebounds\assists\FG%,3pt FG%, FT% A\T ratio) were within 1/4 of 1% of Morrison's in his 1st NBA year ...well then I'll have to get back to you...



> why try to make it a personal like/dislike issue when there is so many shortcomings in AM's game to point to?


Am I the one who listed him as a "bust" after his 1st year?

Am I the one who stated that there were 20 players better than Morrison in the 2006 draft? A ridiculous claim BTW, which he\she then actually tried to back up...by listing guys like Mardy Collins, Craig Smith and Cedric Simmons among others?

What else, if not personal dislike would you say it is? Is this your and his defintion of an impartial analysis of Morrison's game and NBA future? I mean, come on now...Stop this foolishness....Like I said, if you don't like the guy then just say you don't like the guy...it is that simple...

37% does suck as a FG%, but he is hardly the 1st player to shoot such a poor percentage...heck 6 out Jason Kidd"s 14 seasons have been under 40%...and the rest at 40-41%, outside of 1 of them...and MANY other high profile NBA players have had sub 40% FG% seasons...MANY...(it deserved to be stated again)...

Dudley is just wrong on his assumptions regarding Morrison...As we sit here NOW...that is the bottom line...may they prove to be a forbearing of what is to come for Morrison in his NBA career? Possibly...but not for certain as he and others here have incorrectly asserted...


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## Masbee (Dec 31, 2002)

Kmurph said:


> I like that if you set the parameters strict enough, you think you can help sell your misbegotten point...how convenient...
> 
> As long as he did? IS 3 years is the definitive quantifier here?
> 
> ...


Interesting list.

One populated largely with:

Point Guards, which makes for an unfair comparison to wing scorers, as learning to run a team often slows the development of young players to their complete game;

Good to Outstandning defenders. Players that were able to help their team, even when they struggled with their offensive game.

How these kinds of players make good comparisons to Adam Morrison's situation, I am not sure.

PER's listed are for rookie season. PER of 15.0 is the average score of all players for that season, adjusted for minutes and pace.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/

Morrison as a 22 year old rookie: 7.9

Payton: 13.2, plus a point guard, plus a good defender

Terry: 13.9, plus a point guard

Marjerle: 11.3, plus outstanding defender early in his career

Korver: 10.1, May seem a good example, yet Korver was 25% more productive than Morrison, note: career best season 14.2 - marginal player so far.

Johnson: 12.0, plus tried to learn the point position while at Phoenix, plus was traded his rookie season, plus only 2 years of college, was 20 as a rookie.

Hinrich: 13.1, plus a point guard, plus a good defender

Houston: 9.0. Good find. This looks to be the best example of a 3 or 4 year wing player, primarily a scorer, who stunk his rookie year, while ending up at least an average player. In Houston's case, he became an above average player. Note that his 2nd season he made a very large leap in productivity. PER 16.4.

I am not familiar with Houston's career while in Detroit. Anybody know the story of Houston's first 2 seasons?

Artest: 13.4, plus an outstanding defender, plus only 2 years in college, 20 his rookie year

Billups: 13.6, plus a point guard, plus only went to college for 2 years, plus was traded his rookie season

I only see 2 examples that can reasonably be compared to Morrison: Houston and Korver.

Korver had a better rookie season than Morrison, and has yet to impress in his career. Though he has a place in the NBA, if he were a top 5 pick, he would be considered a big bust.

Houston is the best example, and I think shows how rare it is for a mature, scoring wing, given plenty of minutes and shots, to throw up a stinker of a rookie season, and ever amount to a hill of beans.


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

*KMurph*- Masbee did a good job of evaluating the pasta/players you threw at the wall... and kudos to you for finding a decent example that stuck in Houston. The Korver example doesn't fit the perameters though IMO as he only averaged 11 MPG his rookie year. As Masbee pointed out though, even in that limited time to get into the flow of the game he was able to do more with it then Adam was with regular burn.



Kmurph said:


> Am I the one who listed him as a "bust" after his 1st year?


no, you are the one who listed him as a sure thing/offensive superstar before he was even drafted. You also labeled everyone who disagreed with you as lacking common sense.



> Am I the one who stated that there were 20 players better than Morrison in the 2006 draft? A ridiculous claim BTW, which he\she then actually tried to back up...by listing guys like Mardy Collins, Craig Smith and Cedric Simmons among others?
> 
> What else, if not personal dislike would you say it is? Is this your and his defintion of an impartial analysis of Morrison's game and NBA future? I mean, come on now...Stop this foolishness....Like I said, if you don't like the guy then just say you don't like the guy...it is that simple...


Stop the hypocrisy. You can't claim prior to a draft that a guy is definitely going to be a superstar and then one year later turn around and say that it's too early to judge him. Statistically he had as bad a season as anyone in the whole league who got minutes. Thats what a national writer was pointing out. Dude was terrible. Sorry. 

It seems to me that you are the one with personal investment in how he does. Personally I really don't care other then I'd rather see the guys I'm watching play well then poorly... so actually I guess I'm rooting for him.



> 37% does suck as a FG%, but he is hardly the 1st player to shoot such a poor percentage...heck 6 out Jason Kidd"s 14 seasons have been under 40%...and the rest at 40-41%, outside of 1 of them...and MANY other high profile NBA players have had sub 40% FG% seasons...MANY...(it deserved to be stated again)...


Thats what my comment about players who bring defense and/or a floorgame to the table was speaking to. Kidd is a future HOFer because of all the things he brings to the table besides his shot... Adam brings little else. 



> Dudley is just wrong on his assumptions regarding Morrison...As we sit here NOW...that is the bottom line...may they prove to be a forbearing of what is to come for Morrison in his NBA career? Possibly...but not for certain as he and others here have incorrectly asserted...


why you continue to screw up his arguments is on you... I'd guess that it's easier then debating what he actually wrote and then clarified when you got this wrong the last time around, but whatever. He's entitled to his opinion that 20 or so players from last years draft are better prospects... I wouldn't go that far, but I doubt with the benefit of hindsight very many observers would put him in the top 10 from last years weak crop.

STOMP


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

Masbee said:


> I am not familiar with Houston's career while in Detroit. Anybody know the story of Houston's first 2 seasons?


Going off of memory, I think he backed up Joe D and Grant Hill at the swing positions along with some others. He and Lindsey Hunter came in that same draft in back to back picks for the Pistons. His dad coached him while he was at Tennessee.

Over the next couple of seasons he dramatically improved his conditioning and earned a bigger role on the team. I recall his second year ending on a hot streak where he definitely showed he was a player.



> Houston is the best example, and I think shows how rare it is for a mature, scoring wing, given plenty of minutes and shots, to throw up a stinker of a rookie season, and ever amount to a hill of beans.


yup. I'm guessing Adam suffered from being intimidated by everyone being so much more athletic then he was and contesting what used to come easily for him.... thats how I rationalize him only shooting 71% from the line. I think mook's thought about him turning into a 6'6 Steve Kerr are probably on track... maybe someday he'll be the next Kyle Korver.

STOMP


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## SheedSoNasty (Dec 31, 2002)

So... How about that Corey Brewer guy?


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## PorterIn2004 (Jan 1, 2003)

SheedSoNasty said:


> So... How about that Corey Brewer guy?


Pfft! Go start your own thread for him if you like. This is clearly the Adam Morrison thread.


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## dudleysghost (Mar 24, 2006)

zagsfan20 said:


> Okay, nevermind anything I've debated you. You just flat-out dislike Morrison.
> 
> Gonzaga didn't get a chance to smack down that lowly Beavers program, so I'm not really sure where the hatred comes from.


I honestly don't dislike Morrison personally. I just think he's not a very good NBA player and that he won't ever be one, and I've said very specifically why like umpteen times now. If you choose to believe that I dislike him _as a player_ because of some other reason than the many that I've enumerated, so be it.

But I think it's ironic that you trash the Beavers like I'm supposed to care, and accuse me of being the one with some kind of blind hatred. I feel I should tell you: there is someone on this board, posting in this thread, who seems to be intensely invested and irrational about his college basketball team and players from it, and it isn't me...


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## dudleysghost (Mar 24, 2006)

SheedSoNasty said:


> So... How about that Corey Brewer guy?


I don't know if this was posted yet, but here is the article in draft express that talks about the Brewer workout.

http://draftexpress.com/viewarticle.php?a=2053

I know DE is generally very optimistic about nearly every prospect, but I think the stuff they say about Brewer is absolutely great. I want a 3 who can shoot, defend and play hard most of all, and it sounds Brewer will be a good pro in those categories. If he can also run the court, create a bit off the dribble and make nice passes ... that would be about the ideal, short of getting a dominant star. I still think he will be a bit of a defensive role player in the league, like a taller super-Ime, but he also does have some real upside and he seems like he would be a great choice for the Blazers.


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

dudleysghost said:


> I know DE is generally very optimistic about nearly every prospect, but I think the stuff they say about Brewer is absolutely great.


They were even more glowing about Noah. From the link you posted...


> In our mind obviously the most impressive player we’ve seen workout thus far...


If Portland doesn't get a lucky bouncing ping pong ball of theirs to move them forward, I'd expect these two to be leading candidates to end up Blazers. Here's hoping that Brewer measures out to at least 6'7 barefoot and Noah is at least 6'9.5. Both seem to have the sort of live bodies, long wingspans, and non-stop motors that should allow them to excell on D in the league. I think they'll both be complimentry players on the other end and overall solid starting type talents. 

STOMP


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## dudleysghost (Mar 24, 2006)

STOMP said:


> They were even more glowing about Noah. From the link you posted...
> 
> 
> If Portland doesn't get a lucky bouncing ping pong ball of theirs to move them forward, I'd expect these two to be leading candidates to end up Blazers. Here's hoping that Brewer measures out to at least 6'7 barefoot and Noah is at least 6'9.5. Both seem to have the sort of live bodies, long wingspans, and non-stop motors that should allow them to excell on D in the league. I think they'll both be complimentry players on the other end and overall solid starting type talents.
> ...


Yeah, I read that review of Noah, and I guess I just don't share their opinion on him. Brewer and Noah are somewhat similar players I think. Both are active and quick, but relatively unskilled on offense and with slight builds. However, Brewer plays at a position where strength and toughness is relatively less important, and I think he is way less unskilled on offense than Noah. I don't think Noah will be that great a defender in the league, because while he will be quick and long enough to help and block some shots, I think he will get pushed around on the blocks, and he will be a hole in a half-court offensive system. I'm not saying he won't be a decent NBA player, but I think Brewer will be more valuable on both ends of the floor, and I'll be disappointed if the Blazers use a #6-8 pick on Noah.


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

dudleysghost said:


> Yeah, I read that review of Noah, and I guess I just don't share their opinion on him. Brewer and Noah are somewhat similar players I think. Both are active and quick, but relatively unskilled on offense and with slight builds. However, Brewer plays at a position where strength and toughness is relatively less important, and I think he is way less unskilled on offense than Noah. I don't think Noah will be that great a defender in the league, because while he will be quick and long enough to help and block some shots, I think he will get pushed around on the blocks, and he will be a hole in a half-court offensive system. I'm not saying he won't be a decent NBA player, but I think Brewer will be more valuable on both ends of the floor, and I'll be disappointed if the Blazers use a #6-8 pick on Noah.


Fair enough, though I'd point out that the 230 pounds that Noah is listed at is roughly the same weight that Aldridge and Joel came into the league. If he measures out to roughly the same height/length dimensions as LA, I'm not concerned about how he'll project as a Big on the pro level at all. If he's 6'10 barefoot with a 7'3ish wingspan, with his athletism and coordination I think he'd be a major step up from Joel on the offensive end. Solid ballhandling for a Big, smart with the ball as far as passing, great at running the court... dude can hit his FTs as well. On top of all of that he seems the sort of competitor/winner that KP speaks towards wanting to build the club's future around.

The 180 pounds that Brewer is listed at makes TPrince look like Santa. A year ago I was pointing out how light Morrison was for a SF at 205... thats the lightest SF I know of. Then again, having size/length but being too light is one of the least things that would concern me down the road. 

Pritchard targeted the guys I wanted last season and of course those guys turned up roses. I love that he keeps repeating that he'll draft the BPA regardless. Those two things make me trust that at the end of the day he'll make the right call(s).

STOMP


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## Peaceman (Jan 15, 2003)

I am not a Noah fan, but I do think he will be a good player in the league. He is fairly quick, player with a lot on energy and passes well. I think he will develop into a player that will play good defense and block some shots. With all that he could be, I don't see him worth of a top 10 pick. Maybe 11-15 range. I would love him as my 6th or 7th guy, but you don't take a 6-7 man in the top ten unless you are Atlanta or Boston.


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## Utherhimo (Feb 20, 2005)

stomp who do you want?


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## meru (Jul 2, 2003)

A while ago there was a thread with lots of comparisons for Noah. One I've been mulling recently (i.e., since Utah got on ABC) is Andrei Kirilenko. Kirilenko is plenty athletic, albeit not a freak, but is a great shot-blocker because of long skinny arms and good instincts. He has above-average dribbling and passing skills for a guy his height (6'9"-6'10"?) but doesn't have a real offensive game, either for SF or PF. Is VERY skinny. A great hustle player, very unselfish. Sounds like Noah to me...

(Both have ugly jumpers, but Noah's is Shawn Marion ugly.)

I think Noah would flourish on the teams that Kirilenko would do well on - i.e., Phoenix or Golden State. (Kirilenko certainly looked a lot better AGAINST Golden State than he did against Houston.)


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

Utherhimo said:


> stomp who do you want?


Oden, but I'm willing to settle for Durant :wink:

I haven't made up my mind yet on who I'd be for the club drafting if they are picking 3rd, 6th, or lower. Seeing how the players measure at the pre-draft will probably settle some questions for me. As the old saying goes, you can't teach size. I'm probably leaning towards the two Florida players mentioned in this thread as I place higher value on guys who project well on defense then a high college scoring average, but how well those two project does hinge somewhat on them having good size for their respective positions.

STOMP


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## SheedSoNasty (Dec 31, 2002)

It's amazing how quickly a thread like this can become so irrelevant so quickly.

I can't sleep from thinking about the possibilities that await this blessed franchise.


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