# Game 6: Wolves (0-5) vs. Kings (2-5)



## JuX

*November 14, 2007
7:00 PM CDT
Target Center
Minneapolis, Minnesota
*

*SAS: (2-5), Home (2-1) Road (0-4)
MIN: (0-5), Home (0-2) Road (0-3)*

*Probable Starters*

*Sacramento Kings*




































Salmons G, Moore C, Miller C, Martin G, Garcia F-G

*Minnesota Timberwolves*




































Gomes F, Jefferson F, Ratliff C, Buckner G, Jaric G


*Sacramento*
*Points Per Game*
Martin 27.0
Salmons 20.7
Garcia 15.1

*Rebounds Per Game*
Miller 8.3
Garcia 4.4
2 tied at 4.3

*Assists Per Game*
Salmons 4.0
Garcia 2.6
2 tied at 2.0

*Minnesota*
*Points Per Game*
Jefferson 19.6
McCants 15.0
Buckner 11.6

*Rebounds Per Game*
Jefferson 12.6
Ratliff 5.5
Smith 5.2

*Assists Per Game*
Telfair 4.6
Jaric 3.4
Buckner 3.0​
*Next Wolves Game:* Nov 16th vs. Washington Wizards


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## luther

I'm going to miss the first half of this game or so because of a rec league game. But I'll be checking in when I'm home, probably around 8. 

The injury problems continue with Smith almost certainly out. Things sure have been rough in that department. Honestly, while I know we've been bad, you have to admit it's rough when you're without your second- or third-best player (Foye), a legit role-playing hustle big (Madsen), and for various stretches without your best perimeter scorer (McCants), best athlete (Green), best bench player (Smith), best interior defender (Ratliff), etc. I mean, enough is enough! This team doesn't have the depth or experience to fight through injuries like those. Heck, they would struggle if everyone was there, in place and healthy, ready to play.


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## Ruff Draft

Our line-up sucks more than Sacramento's... horrible.


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## JuX

Ruff Draft said:


> Our line-up sucks more than Sacramento's... horrible.


Yep.


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## moss_is_1

McCants will be starting I would think. Jaric better be benched again.


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## JuX

moss_is_1 said:


> McCants will be starting I would think. Jaric better be benched again.


Payback time.

I hope


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## moss_is_1

Ugh...of course Jaric is starting.


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## moss_is_1

Geeze....McCants a lil trigger happy? 0-2 1 TO and now they give him a postup which he gets fouled.


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## JuX

Out of desperation, I hope Smith will be able to play.

Damn McCants, a free throw made and then a miss. Would you snap out of it and achieve at least 80% this year?


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## moss_is_1

McCants...proving he hasn't played alot in his career, he's struggling at the moment.


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## JuX

Make it 2 TOs on McCants.


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## JuX

AJ 2 points, 3 rebs.


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## JuX

7-7... game is tied.


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## moss_is_1

WOW, that was an amazing block by Ratliff, leads to a nice one man fastbreak with McCants.
P.S, Jaric blows hes getting burned by Udrih.
P.S.S Jefferson, is a beast.


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## JuX

Yeah, the team better not foul too much like they did in the first 5 games...


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## JuX

Finally that scrub is being taken out.


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## moss_is_1

JuX said:


> Yeah, the team better not foul too much like they did in the first 5 games...



Instead, we are gonna have 50 Tos.


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## JuX

moss_is_1 said:


> Instead, we are gonna have 50 Tos.


You're right on the pace. :biggrin:


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## moss_is_1

JuX said:


> You're right on the pace. :biggrin:



Haha and as I said that Telfair throws another.


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## JuX

Let's see if our rookie can have the offense started.

EDIT: Nice, right 'fore I typed this. a 3 pointer by Brewer!


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## moss_is_1

JuX said:


> Let's see if our rookie can have the offense started.
> 
> EDIT: Nice, right 'fore I typed this. a 3 pointer by Brewer!



He gave us the lead...


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## socco

I love Jefferson more and more after every time I see him play.


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## JuX

Confused Walker is in.


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## moss_is_1

Now I see why we don't want to shoot free throws.


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## moss_is_1

Well, either we don't shoot free throws or we get 7 Tos in the first quarter.


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## JuX

OT: Seattle is leading big time right now over Miami 55-36 in 2nd q. That could make us the last team to win this year, perhaps?


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## JuX

moss_is_1 said:


> Well, either we don't shoot free throws or we get 7 Tos in the first quarter.


You're still on the right track so far.

Oh, rashad. Why? why?


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## moss_is_1

JuX said:


> OT: Seattle is leading big time right now over Miami 55-36 in 2nd q. That could make us the last team to win this year, perhaps?


The Warriors haven't won yet either  lol. Did Shaq get injured in that game or what? He's only played 4 minutes.


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## moss_is_1

Walker does look confused...Why the hell is he guarding Artest?


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## JuX

I know that Golden State has not won yet, but if Seattle wins tonight that could increase our chance to win the award as the last team ever to win this year. Yeah.


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## moss_is_1

McCants is heating up .


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## moss_is_1

JuX said:


> I know that Golden State has not won yet, but if Seattle wins tonight that could increase our chance to win the award as the last team ever to win this year. Yeah.




Ohhhhhh, lol. i just woke up..lol


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## JuX

moss_is_1 said:


> Ohhhhhh, lol. i just woke up..lol


That's alright. 

It's early into 2nd quarter and I've already lost track of how many points allowed against Canfoused Walker. :lol:


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## moss_is_1

JuX said:


> That's alright.
> 
> It's early into 2nd quarter and I've already lost track of how many points allowed against Canfoused Walker. :lol:


I think its around....28 :laugh:


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## moss_is_1

Antoine...Defense? AND a fastbreak dunk.....he must of been confused and thought he was good.


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## moss_is_1

Antoine...What the hell? a 3 and another steal?


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## JuX

moss_is_1 said:


> I think its around....28 :laugh:


:lol:


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## JuX

Bassy needs to get his cousin off his mind or something! :azdaja:


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## moss_is_1

We are doomed...jaric and Walker are both in.


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## JuX

Ok, Bassy, keep dishing out but don't ever ever ever commit another worthless turnover.


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## moss_is_1

Lmao omg, that was an amazing play by jaric...did you see that?


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## moss_is_1

Antoine...what..the...hell.


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## JuX

Antoine? Is that you?


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## moss_is_1

Watching Antoine run makes me laugh.


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## JuX

moss_is_1 said:


> Watching Antoine run makes me laugh.


Yeah, he runs like a girl.


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## moss_is_1

Even tho telfair kinda sucks, it makes me wanna cry when he gets hurt because I know who our only other PG is. 
But maybe they will play McCants there and then Green will get some PT.


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## moss_is_1

JuX said:


> Yeah, he runs like a girl.


and jiggles like jello-o


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## moss_is_1

Nice help defense by Jefferson to swat the pass away from Miller.


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## JuX

moss_is_1 said:


> Nice help defense by Jefferson to swat the pass away from Miller.


Good. I don't pity for this guy.


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## JuX

Ok game's on now


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## JuX

McCants is on roll.


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## moss_is_1

Wow, that was a beatiful step back move that reminded me of Mj there against Artest.


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## luther

OK, I just checked in.

1) I heard them say Telfair sprained an ankle? So it's Jaric and Buckner from here on out? What happened?

2) Artest...first game back?


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## moss_is_1

luther said:


> OK, I just checked in.
> 
> 1) I heard them say Telfair sprained an ankle? So it's Jaric and Buckner from here on out? What happened?
> 
> 2) Artest...first game back?


Telfair was walking off and he said that he just twisted it, so it didn't sound serious.

Artest has looked a little rusty in his first game back.


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## moss_is_1

Antoine is checking in.


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## JuX

Ugh...


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## moss_is_1

JuX said:


> Ugh...


At least he's playing ok.


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## moss_is_1

Great the last thing I want is Antoine Walker to gain confidence and shoot more.


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## JuX

Did Richard really score?


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## moss_is_1

Telfair is already back on and seems okay.


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## JuX

Big Al needs to get more aggressive than that, especially in the 4th quarter.


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## JuX

Man, Udrih's killing us.


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## moss_is_1

McCants is a really good ballhandler. and just a great offensive player.


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## JuX

Antoine's back to being Antoine... WTF!?!


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## luther

Marko seems to be hustling out there, and has gotten about three key rebounds since I began watching. I checked the box, and see he isn't scoring or racking up assists, but he's played a nice floor game as far as I've seen.


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## moss_is_1

JuX said:


> Antoine's back to being Antoine... WTF!?!



Who knows, he's a moron.


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## JuX

Nice job by McCants.

91-87 Minny.


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## moss_is_1

Whoo new career high for McCants after he hits a deep three. Artest answers with a 3...


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## JuX

luther said:


> Marko seems to be hustling out there, and has gotten about three key rebounds since I began watching. I checked the box, and see he isn't scoring or racking up assists, but he's played a nice floor game as far as I've seen.


Finally, something productive from Jaric when it's needed the most to win a game.


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## moss_is_1

31 for McCants!!! I think we found our 4th quarter man...12 in the quarter. We are being aggresive on defense and getting steals. Up 98-90 with 1:52 left.


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## JuX

Hell, yeah! McCants!


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## JuX

Kings are playing intentional fouls so I think it's sufficient for this team to win a game tonight.

About the frickin' time.


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## moss_is_1

Ah Antoine just winked at the crowd after the floater, i coudlnt help but laugh. and they showed Green and he said "what the ****" as he was laughing.


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## JuX

moss_is_1 said:


> Ah Antoine just winked at the crowd after the floater, i coudlnt help but laugh. and they showed Green and he said "what the ****" as he was laughing.


:lol:


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## moss_is_1

We Win!!!


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## JuX

Close, close game.

Ugly win, but a win is a win!


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## Avalanche

Shad was a monster! great to get a win, yes it was the kings but they did have Artest back.
Cant wait to see Foye/Mccants/Jefferson gel when he gets back, this team could actually look dangerous.


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## Flash is the Future

By the looks of the boxscore, it looks like you guys receive Toine's one good game out of every 5. Good to see you guys get the win! You have a promising future.


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## JuX




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## moss_is_1

JuX said:


>


:lol:
He is part of the reason we won...but i still hate him.


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## alexander

luther said:


> Marko seems to be hustling out there, and has gotten about three key rebounds since I began watching. I checked the box, and see he isn't scoring or racking up assists, but he's played a nice floor game as far as I've seen.


OMG you are the only poster on this board that has something positive to say about Jaric, the rest of the guys simply love to hate Jaric for no reason. Just look at this thread, they make fun of Jaric as often as they can, and what happens Jaric brings you the first win of the season, one guy complains about Jaric starting..haha..who do you want?..freakin Telfair to start..hahahaha
and to that guy who cant wait to see Foye/McCants/Jefferson, mark my words Jaric will remain a starter even when Foye comes back(i'm willing to bet)


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## Ruff Draft

McCants... Luckily I had benched him for Arenas today


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## moss_is_1

alexander said:


> OMG you are the only poster on this board that has something positive to say about Jaric, the rest of the guys simply love to hate Jaric for no reason. Just look at this thread, they make fun of Jaric as often as they can, and what happens Jaric brings you the first win of the season, one guy complains about Jaric starting..haha..who do you want?..freakin Telfair to start..hahahaha
> and to that guy who cant wait to see Foye/McCants/Jefferson, mark my words Jaric will remain a starter even when Foye comes back(i'm willing to bet)


Well, look at Telfair, he is a true point. Jaric is crap. He is a pg yet, he is a lousy ballhandler, lousy passer, cant defender the other Pgs. Telfair is a pretty good passer, great ballhandler and when he wants a pretty good defender. he can't shoot but look at Jaric, he can't shoot either.
Jaric is good at getting steals, and occasionaly has a good game. Ur man love for Jaric is sick, at least admire a decent player.


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## Mateo

Missed this one. Why was Smith out?


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## socco

alexander said:


> Just look at this thread, they make fun of Jaric as often as they can, and what happens Jaric brings you the first win of the season


lol, yeah, that's why we won. Didn't have anything to do with Rashad scoring 33, Jefferson 23, or Walker 17. It was those amazing 9 points and 3 assists in 25 minutes from Marko that put the team over the top.



alexander said:


> and to that guy who cant wait to see Foye/McCants/Jefferson, mark my words Jaric will remain a starter even when Foye comes back(i'm willing to bet)


I could see starting Jaric for Foye's first game back (if Telfair doesn't take the job back by that point), just like how Dwyane Wade came off the bench last night. But to suggest that once Foye is healthy that Jaric will remain the starter is ridiculous.

Marko is an average player who can have a positive impact once every 4 or 5 games. Nothing more.


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## JuX

Mateo said:


> Missed this one. Why was Smith out?


Ankle injury he sustained in Sacramento.


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## Avalanche

alexander said:


> OMG you are the only poster on this board that has something positive to say about Jaric, the rest of the guys simply love to hate Jaric for no reason. Just look at this thread, they make fun of Jaric as often as they can, and what happens Jaric brings you the first win of the season, one guy complains about Jaric starting..haha..who do you want?..freakin Telfair to start..hahahaha
> and to that guy who cant wait to see Foye/McCants/Jefferson, mark my words Jaric will remain a starter even when Foye comes back(i'm willing to bet)


:lol:

yeah we dont need foye/jefferson.. time to build around jaric


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## JuX

Avalanche said:


> :lol:
> 
> yeah we dont need foye/jefferson.. time to build around jaric


Yeah lol :biggrin:


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## luther

There is something called middle ground, people, and people miss it on Marko Jaric. 

Jaric is a good basketball player. He's not a great one, and never will be. He's not even a pure point guard. But he's not garbage, either. But what he is, is one of the VERY few players on the Timberwolves who moves without the ball. Who cuts. Who sees cutters. Who really--REALLY--competes hard. He's a good passer, even while he's not racking up assists. 

(And that's where the person who was talking about Marbury on a different thread was dead wrong, btw. High assist totals do not equal good passers. There's the whole now cliched but true fact of the pass that leads to the assist, which is every bit as important. And it's why guys like Derrick McKey are considered brilliant passers from the F position in their careers despite getting 2-4 a game, while Marbury gets 8 for his career and is a BS point guard with no clue how to play.) 

Jaric is generally an intelligent player who plays decent defense on wing players and who keeps the game moving in the right direction _when he's confident._ And that's the big thing with Marko: every time he's benched, every time he seems unsure of his role, he goes into the toilet. It's hard to explain, in that he's the song of a great player and coach, a former Euroleague champion, a former World Championships champion, a former Olympic medalist, etc. But it's true: the less certain his role, the worse he is.

The beauty of it is, when you play him with the starters, he's a better player, and he more deserves his role. And the fact is, he's a guy who, while on the court, is unselfish and does generally defer to the stars. Put him in with reserves and watch him shoot more and be less effective. It happens every time. Happened with the Clippers. Has happened in his time here.


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## Avalanche

I know Jaric is a decent basketball player.. but on THIS team he has been terrible.

He needs to join an undersized SG, someone like Arenas or Iverson to really fulfill whatever potential he has


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## alexander

moss_is_1 said:


> Well, look at Telfair, he is a true point. Jaric is crap. He is a pg yet, he is a lousy ballhandler, lousy passer, cant defender the other Pgs. Telfair is a pretty good passer, great ballhandler and when he wants a pretty good defender. he can't shoot but look at Jaric, he can't shoot either.
> Jaric is good at getting steals, and occasionaly has a good game. Ur man love for Jaric is sick, at least admire a decent player.


really,Telfair-Jaric and you go with Telfair WOW..i'm pretty sure every sigle coach in the league would take Jaric with a broken leg over prime Telfair any time of the year. Just look around the league, Marbury got benched because they need a defensive minded PG who doesn't care much about scoring = Jaric, Denver also needs a defensive minded PG who doesn't care much about scoring to pair with Iverson, Sacramento too...PGs type of Marbury, Telfair, Bibby, Foye, Francis are out of fashion, don't you see that? nobody wants them, they are only good for your fantasy teams



> lol, yeah, that's why we won. Didn't have anything to do with Rashad scoring 33, Jefferson 23, or Walker 17. It was those amazing 9 points and 3 assists in 25 minutes from Marko that put the team over the top.


you kids have to understand that real basketball is not fantasy basketball, stats are just like a bikini, it shows everything but it doesn't reveal anything. Don't give me that **** McCants 33, Jefferson 23, Walker 17 and Jaric only 9, Marko was a big part of that win as much as Rashad, Walker and Al, he actually did put the team over the top with one big off. rebound, one steal, a def. rebound and a pass to McCants for an easy lay up, and couple of free throws..all that in last 2-3 minutes, those are the plays you need to do in order to finish the games.
And just one example, remember that play in the first half when Marko kicked the ball to stop 2 on 1 Kings fastbreak and probably 2 easy points, see, those kind of plays you don't see in the boxscore and Jaric does them very well...just an example


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## moss_is_1

alexander said:


> really,Telfair-Jaric and you go with Telfair WOW..i'm pretty sure every sigle coach in the league would take Jaric with a broken leg over prime Telfair any time of the year. Just look around the league, Marbury got benched because they need a defensive minded PG who doesn't care much about scoring = Jaric, Denver also needs a defensive minded PG who doesn't care much about scoring to pair with Iverson, Sacramento too...PGs type of Marbury, Telfair, Bibby, Foye, Francis are out of fashion, don't you see that? nobody wants them, they are only good for your fantasy teams
> 
> you kids have to understand that real basketball is not fantasy basketball, stats are just like a bikini, it shows everything but it doesn't reveal anything. Don't give me that **** McCants 33, Jefferson 23, Walker 17 and Jaric only 9, Marko was a big part of that win as much as Rashad, Walker and Al, he actually did put the team over the top with one big off. rebound, one steal, a def. rebound and a pass to McCants for an easy lay up, and couple of free throws..all that in last 2-3 minutes, those are the plays you need to do in order to finish the games.
> And just one example, remember that play in the first half when Marko kicked the ball to stop 2 on 1 Kings fastbreak and probably 2 easy points, see, those kind of plays you don't see in the boxscore and Jaric does them very well...just an example


I doubt that coaches will take jaric over telfair. jaric may be more valuable because he can play 2-3 spots, but hes mediocre at all 3.

One game, we know he has his 4-5 games a year where he plays well. he just sucks so bad in the rest.


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## luther

moss_is_1 said:


> I doubt that coaches will take jaric over telfair.


Unless by "coach," you mean "person watching TV who is impressed when someone throws behind-the-back pass," I doubt you'd find more than half a dozen coaches who would choose Telfair over Jaric for a team, assuming there were no contract issues taken into consideration. (Obviously, Jaric is overpaid relative to his NBA production; and Telfair is not only cheap, but expiring. Those things play into the real world.)

Last night, Barkley was discussing Marbury and said something I loved. He said something like this: when Stephon was coming out of Ga. Tech, everyone was amazed at his physical abilities, saying "wow, when this kid gets it--really understands how to play--look out!" Then after five years, people start scratching their heads and saying, uh, why doesn't he get it yet? And now it's been 10 and he's still that same damn player, tantalizing in terms of skill, capable in terms of statistical production, but not a good basketball player. He still doesn't "get it." And if, after 10 years, he doesn't play the right way (and as Barkley said, if he couldn't play and get along with KG, of all people), he is never going to.

At some point, that will be the case with Telfair. It doesn't always come down to physical abilities, of which Telfair has many. Sometimes it comes down to doing the right thing on the court when taking into account your physical ability, your teammates physical abilities, game situation, etc. That is why I think most coaches would take the obviously inferior (in terms of quickness, handle, etc.) Jaric over Telfair. He understands basketball in a totally different way than Telfair. And the clock is running on Telfair. Third team in four years. Two teams totally gave up on him. He has value in the NBA, there's no question of that, but he has to play to maximize that value within his team's needs and his capabilities. Otherwise he'll be a shoot-first, shoot-badly point guard who will make the spectacular play sometimes, but screw it up even more.


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## socco

alexander said:


> you kids have to understand that real basketball is not fantasy basketball, stats are just like a bikini, it shows everything but it doesn't reveal anything. Don't give me that **** McCants 33, Jefferson 23, Walker 17 and Jaric only 9, Marko was a big part of that win as much as Rashad, Walker and Al, he actually did put the team over the top with one big off. rebound, one steal, a def. rebound and a pass to McCants for an easy lay up, and couple of free throws..all that in last 2-3 minutes, those are the plays you need to do in order to finish the games.
> And just one example, remember that play in the first half when Marko kicked the ball to stop 2 on 1 Kings fastbreak and probably 2 easy points, see, those kind of plays you don't see in the boxscore and Jaric does them very well...just an example


A guy who loves Marko Jaric, of all players, questioning other people's basketball knowledge? Well now I've seen it all.

I never said that Marko didn't play good. But those other 3 guys had a bigger impact. McCants in particular. What did he have, like 14 points in the 4th quarter?

Marko played decent, but what do you expect when you come around here talking about him like a God when he has his one good game of the month?


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