# Wasted Draft Pick



## arenas809

*"Why did you take the decision to say no to the NBA? Fran Vazquez: It was a tough decision, the toughest in my life. I said no because I feared I would not adjust well."*

You've gotta be kidding me. These international players are scared, they want to hide over in Europe rather than proving they have game. Look at the Hoop Summit game, every year the best players hide out.

What a wasted draft pick, could have taken Sean May, who would have fit in perfectly, and you take a kid who's too ***** to come to the NBA right now at 22.

Garbage.


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## Helter Skelter

I've seen Fran Vazquez a lot of times , and he doesn't have the quality to play in NBA .

As well he can't speak English , and he doesn't seem very intelligent.

I was I big mistake to pick this player and someone have to pay for it (sack) :banana:


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## Mr. Hobbes

Do you have a link? Does that mean he won't play for the Magic next season?


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## JNice

arenas809 said:


> *"Why did you take the decision to say no to the NBA? Fran Vazquez: It was a tough decision, the toughest in my life. I said no because I feared I would not adjust well."*
> 
> You've gotta be kidding me. These international players are scared, they want to hide over in Europe rather than proving they have game. Look at the Hoop Summit game, every year the best players hide out.
> 
> What a wasted draft pick, could have taken Sean May, who would have fit in perfectly, and you take a kid who's too ***** to come to the NBA right now at 22.
> 
> Garbage.



Overreacting a bit at this point since we don't know for sure if he will be staying over in Europe or not. My feeling is he'll be playing in the NBA next season. I don't see why he would choose not to. It wouldn't necessarily be a wasted pick if he does stay over in Europe next year since Orlando won't be winning anything next season anyway ... but it would be annoying.


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## Starbury03

Sorry but that was a horrible pick with the players still left on the board. Then he combines it by not coming over.


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## JNice

Starbury03 said:


> Sorry but that was a horrible pick with the players still left on the board. Then he combines it by not coming over.



Interesting opinion that a lot of people have but it doesn't really mean much because most of those people have never even seen the guy play. In addition, I don't necessarily see any of the guys taken after Vasquez that are anywhere near guarantees to be great players.


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## Starbury03

May
Green
Granger
Will definetly better pro's but expecially May who would play the same position.


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## bigbabyjesus

Wow, and I thought Roko not coming over hurt. This would be terrible for the Magic if he didn't come over. These European players are pissing me off lately..


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## HKF

This is why I wanted May and was so upset by this pick, because May will be great for Okafor. He would have been even better for Howard. Ah well, this Vazquez guy is going to prove to be a reach when it turns out that better players were on the board.

The main problem though, is that at 22, he's lauded as NBA ready and yet he doesn't feel he's ready to play in the league yet. That's like "ugh" right there.


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## kamego

HKF said:


> This is why I wanted May and was so upset by this pick, because May will be great for Okafor. He would have been even better for Howard. Ah well, this Vazquez guy is going to prove to be a reach when it turns out that better players were on the board.
> 
> The main problem though, is that at 22, he's lauded as NBA ready and yet he doesn't feel he's ready to play in the league yet. That's like "ugh" right there.


If he doesn't feel he's ready and everyone one thinks he is, thats a scary combo. When would he ever be ready then? We'll have to see how long he stays away from the NBA though, I don't see him turning down NBA potential money forever.


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## JNice

..

Well, this is officially annoying:

Vazquez won't play for Magic this season
First-round pick said he prefers to play in Europe next season but may try to jump to the NBA in a few years.



> "I ask for the Magic to understand my decision,'' Vazquez said today. "I apologize to them. I know they will be upset because I've had much time to make this decision. Everyone thought I was going (to the NBA), but I was still thinking about it.''





> "Yes, we're a little surprised,'' said Dave Twardzik, Magic co-general manager who had seen Vazquez play six different times in Europe. "The message we've been getting all along -- before the draft, after the draft -- was that he was excited about playing here. He said it was his dream to play in the NBA. I don't know (what changed his mind).''


..

That takes a little air out of the balloon for next year.


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## JNice

..

Unless we get the #1 pick, our draft luck officially sucks ***.


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## X-Factor

JNice said:


> ..
> 
> Well, this is officially annoying:
> 
> Vazquez won't play for Magic this season
> First-round pick said he prefers to play in Europe next season but may try to jump to the NBA in a few years.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ..
> 
> That takes a little air out of the balloon for next year.


Even though everyone doesn't expect us to make the playoffs, even if we had Vazquez, it would have been nice to get him more NBA-Ready, even if it meant hurting the team's overall performance.


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## JNice

..

Well, Orlando has said they aren't convinced and are still going to try to get him over here next season. It would be interesting since his decision reeks of a total lack of confidence.


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## HKF

JNice said:


> ..
> 
> Well, Orlando has said they aren't convinced and are still going to try to get him over here next season. It would be interesting since his decision reeks of a total lack of confidence.


This stinks to me, because it's obvious that Howard is going to make the strides to be great, but to get nothing out of this draft at all (when although I love Diener, he's the 3rd string PG on this team right now) is just wrong. 

Why didn't they take Sean May?


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## JNice

..

Pretty crazy ... I can't believe a lotto pick isn't even going to come over. I'm pretty sure that is a first. Orlando's luck.

Hopefully, at least, we'll forget about him and he'll really improve in Europe and in a few years we can bring him over as a big piece.


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## DHarris34Phan

I think that this is all posturing to get Orlando to give him more $$$ to help with his buyout. Right now, they are only giving him $500k when his buyout is something like $1.5 million.

This would be nuts if he stayed overseas. 2nd rounders stay overseas, not lottery picks.


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## JNice

AJ Prus said:


> I think that this is all posturing to get Orlando to give him more $$$ to help with his buyout. Right now, they are only giving him $500k when his buyout is something like $1.5 million.
> 
> This would be nuts if he stayed overseas. 2nd rounders stay overseas, not lottery picks.



Well, there is a league mandated limit that the team can pay towards his buyout. That is the reason they haven't offered him a contract yet because they are waiting for the details of the new CBA to come out which might allow a higher amount. I think the previous limit was 300 or 350k.


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## Miamiballer2k5

The Magic didn't need Vazquez and they didn't need May either. They needed a small forward or shooting guard. I was shocked on draft night when they passed up Danny Granger, Antoine Wright, Joey Graham and Gerald Green. The Magic are the next joke of the NBA and this is coming from someone that lives in Orlando. This follows a trend of Orlando having bad offseasons. Another thing I want to mention is with Keyon Dooling. Why would the Magic want him when they have Jameer Nelson. Jameer played above expectations last year and then they bring in someone to take his minutes. Sounds familiar, remember when Drew Gooden dominated in the playoffs for Orlando and then they brought in Juwan Howard. Steve Francis and Dooling / Nelson wont work because Francis is NOT A shooting guard and can not guard one. The Magic dont seem to know what there doing and I think they just grab at whatever they can get.


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## RP McMurphy

How awful. Orlando's management has been as bad as any team in the league over the past three or four years.

With Fran Vazquez and Roko Leni-Ukic staying in Europe, I sense another rant coming from a certain college basketball announcer.


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## JNice

AJ Prus said:


> I think that this is all posturing to get Orlando to give him more $$$ to help with his buyout. Right now, they are only giving him $500k when his buyout is something like $1.5 million.
> 
> This would be nuts if he stayed overseas. 2nd rounders stay overseas, not lottery picks.


...


> The Magic understand that buyout to be $650,000. Under the former bargaining agreement, teams could contribute up to $350,000 toward a buyout and the player would be responsible for the rest. That number is expected to rise under the new agreement, possibly as high as $700,000. The Magic are expected to learn the final number this weekend when the new agreement is finalized.
> 
> "The only holdup right now is that we're between CBAs," said Scott Herring, Magic director of basketball administration, who is handling negotiations with Vazquez's agents in America and Europe. "Our previous conversations have been that we will pay the maximum the NBA allows us and Fran will pay the rest. We have no reason to think anything otherwise."


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## JNice

Miamiballer2k5 said:


> The Magic didn't need Vazquez and they didn't need May either. They needed a small forward or shooting guard. I was shocked on draft night when they passed up Danny Granger, Antoine Wright, Joey Graham and Gerald Green. The Magic are the next joke of the NBA and this is coming from someone that lives in Orlando. This follows a trend of Orlando having bad offseasons. Another thing I want to mention is with Keyon Dooling. Why would the Magic want him when they have Jameer Nelson. Jameer played above expectations last year and then they bring in someone to take his minutes. Sounds familiar, remember when Drew Gooden dominated in the playoffs for Orlando and then they brought in Juwan Howard. Steve Francis and Dooling / Nelson wont work because Francis is NOT A shooting guard and can not guard one. The Magic dont seem to know what there doing and I think they just grab at whatever they can get.


Orlando did not need a SF. They'll have Hill and Turkoglu for at least the next 2-3 years.

Orlando did need a SG, but that is lessened by their obvious plan of playing Francis at SG this season. In that case, they will now have Nelson, Dooling, Francis, Stevenson, and potentially Christie at the guard spots.

Orlando did need a big man. They were not bringing back DeClerq. And Cato and Battie's contracts are up after next season. Clearly they needed a big man because now that Vasquez may not be coming over, their big man situation is looking pretty light with really only Cato, Battie, Howard, and Mario Kasun as their true bigs ... and Kasun was a 3rd stringer last year.


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## Captain Obvious

Vazquez's buyout is 1 million euros (~$650,000) and under the new CBA the Magic could pay all or most of it I believe, so I don't think that's the issue. Vazquez is being a ***** about this whole situation. He was actually growing on me but with this news I'm back to where I was draft night.


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## Miamiballer2k5

JNice said:


> Orlando did not need a SF. They'll have Hill and Turkoglu for at least the next 2-3 years.
> 
> Orlando did need a SG, but that is lessened by their obvious plan of playing Francis at SG this season. In that case, they will now have Nelson, Dooling, Francis, Stevenson, and potentially Christie at the guard spots.
> 
> Orlando did need a big man. They were not bringing back DeClerq. And Cato and Battie's contracts are up after next season. Clearly they needed a big man because now that Vasquez may not be coming over, their big man situation is looking pretty light with really only Cato, Battie, Howard, and Mario Kasun as their true bigs ... and Kasun was a 3rd stringer last year.


The Magic could have used a SF more then a PF. Danny Granger is going to be better then Fran Vazquez, you can book it. Hedo can play SG as well so if they drafted a SF they would be filling the SG problem. Why the hell would you bring in Dooling who is a poor mans francis when you have Jameer. If the Magic play Frances at SG who is going to cover the other teams 2? Jameer? Dooling can guard smaller SG's but would have problems with most.


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## Seanzie

RP McMurphy said:


> How awful. Orlando's management has been as bad as any team in the league over the past three or four years.
> 
> With Fran Vazquez and Roko Leni-Ukic staying in Europe, I sense another rant coming from a certain college basketball announcer.


"These European players, they'd rather sit in their huts and pretend to play basketball than be successful like the big time PTPers in the college game BABY!" :curse: 

This makes me wanna cry. I'm just a pseduo-fan of the Magic, but by god, when they passed on Gerald Green, I fell to my knees and begged for mercy. Green is the second coming of T-Mac, lazy eye and all. I mean, a Green/Howard combo in the future would surely have led to great things. Instead, Orlando gets a guy like Fran Vazquez who'd rather wait until he's 34 years old before coming to the league. Am I ranting? Yes.

Is it too late to trade Vazquez, Steve Francis and Doug Christie for Gerald Green and Raef LaFrentz?


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## Zalgirinis

Captain Obvious said:


> Vazquez's buyout is 1 million euros (~$650,000)


You wanna... 

I dont know how big is Vazquez buyout, but 1 million euros is around 1,212,000 dollars.


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## WhoRocks

Wow, this is crap. And from Vasquez's soundbites, i'm not sure if it's just this year he doesn't come over. Regardless of what nationality you are, to succeed in the NBA you need to have the confidence that you belong, and he sounds like a wreck. Like Captain Obvious I was warming up to this pick as time went by, but it seems like 2005 can't be the worst draft ever as we were never in it.

I guess the question's been answered, _this_ is how the Magic have managed to top all those _stunning_ draft performances from before.


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## hobojoe

RP McMurphy said:


> How awful. Orlando's management has been as bad as any team in the league over the past three or four years.
> 
> With Fran Vazquez and Roko Leni-Ukic staying in Europe, I sense another rant coming from a certain college basketball announcer.


Dickie V probably would've advocated a Daniel Ewing or Matt Walsh pick at 11. Unfortunately, either would probably have been better picks at this point. Fran's saying he "may" make the jump in a few years? **** him.


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## Biggestfanoftheknicks

Captain Obvious said:


> Vazquez's buyout is 1 million euros (~$650,000) and under the new CBA the Magic could pay all or most of it I believe, so I don't think that's the issue. Vazquez is being a ***** about this whole situation. He was actually growing on me but with this news I'm back to where I was draft night.



You do realize that Euros are worth more than dollars right? Either way your math sucks.

Anyway you guys got screwed. Fran is being greedy with his buyout and to be honest from what I understand wants to play howards position, does not want to be a center ( I have no idea why he was touted as a possible center in this draft) and didn't get the red carpet treatment he was expecting.

Therefore he chose the money, and seriously F'd Orlando in the process. Don't believe that I want to better my skill crap for a second. Or do if you need to feed you xenophoby but if you need answers look at Ukic. The kid is way more talented than anyone knows, just skinny. The raptors could have easiily given him minutes at the two.

However he chose to sign a contract in Europe rather than whatever second round contract he would have gotten here. Why do you think he did that? To work on his skills?


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## Seanzie

Biggestfanoftheknicks said:


> However he chose to sign a contract in Europe rather than whatever second round contract he would have gotten here. Why do you think he did that? To work on his skills?


I think he did because he knows he's a bust and didn't want to reveal himself to be such in the NBA. Or, maybe, he would be coming off the bench, and probably thinks so highly of himself that he firmly believes he should be a starter immediatley. 

Either way, I'm sure he'll receive a warm reaction whenever he decides to show up in Orlando :wink:


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## BEEZ

Miamiballer2k5 said:


> The Magic could have used a SF more then a PF. Danny Granger is going to be better then Fran Vazquez, you can book it. Hedo can play SG as well so if they drafted a SF they would be filling the SG problem. Why the hell would you bring in Dooling who is a poor mans francis when you have Jameer. If the Magic play Frances at SG who is going to cover the other teams 2? Jameer? Dooling can guard smaller SG's but would have problems with most.


So the Magic should have drafted a 6'7 225 pound man to play SF and had Hedo a 6'10 250 pound man playing SG? That makes absolutley no sense. Hedo and Grant are there at the SF, I was shocked as any when they didnt grab themselves a SG


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## Bron_Melo_ROY

Fran's a *****. NBA ready my ***.


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## Biggestfanoftheknicks

HumBum342 said:


> I think he did because he knows he's a bust and didn't want to reveal himself to be such in the NBA. Or, maybe, he would be coming off the bench, and probably thinks so highly of himself that he firmly believes he should be a starter immediatley.
> 
> Either way, I'm sure he'll receive a warm reaction whenever he decides to show up in Orlando :wink:



I was uh talking about Roko as an example..


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## Miamiballer2k5

BEEZ said:


> So the Magic should have drafted a 6'7 225 pound man to play SF and had Hedo a 6'10 250 pound man playing SG? That makes absolutley no sense. Hedo and Grant are there at the SF, I was shocked as any when they didnt grab themselves a SG


Hedo played SG alot last year and even started games there.


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## Matiz

as far as I understood, Vasquez not feeling ready for NBA was also fear to not adjust well since he doesn't know the language, it's a different culture... he obviously prefers european lifestyle, while he'd only get those 10-15 minutes stucked behind Howard anyway...

while these comments about NBA being his life dreams and that kind of stuff- sorry but most of american publicity will have to wake up and understand that unlike in USA, NBA is not the dream to every european basketball player...


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## Attila

vigilante said:


> These European players ...


 Way to put them all in the same boat. How would you feel if someone said "These African-American players ... "?


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## BEEZ

Miamiballer2k5 said:


> Hedo played SG alot last year and even started games there.


 He was put there out of necessity not because thats what he is. Hes not someone you can play there for an entire game all season long. You ask anyone if they think Hedo is a starting SG in this league and you will get laughed at.


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## HKF

Attila said:


> Way to put them all in the same boat. How would you feel if someone said "These African-American players ... "?


That would not be grouping everyone together. White American players are in the league too. HAHA. But Vazquez is a rare breed. He's scared. In Florida, if you speak Spanish you'll be fine. So I have no clue what the heck he's talking about.


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## BEEZ

HKF said:


> That would not be grouping everyone together. White American players are in the league too. HAHA. But Vazquez is a rare breed. He's scared. In Florida, if you speak Spanish you'll be fine. So I have no clue what the heck he's talking about.


 LMAO @ American way of life.


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## Attila

HKF said:


> That would not be grouping everyone together. White American players are in the league too. HAHA.



He was grouping all Eurpoean players together. That fact that there are white Americans in the league has nothing to do with it. 

By the way, you don't have to be white to be European.


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## HKF

Attila said:


> He was grouping all Eurpoean players together. That fact that there are white Americans in the league has nothing to do with it.
> 
> By the way, you don't have to be white to be European.


I know what he was doing. Did you not see that my post was in jest? You'd have to group all Americans together, to be doing exactly what he's doing. That's what I meant. Ah forget it. I agree it's not a European thing, it's a Vazquez thing. My advice, ignore the person who is blatantly generalizing.


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## Attila

HKF said:


> Did you not see that my post was in jest? ... My advice, ignore the person who is blatantly generalizing.


 My bad. 

I have to say that if I was a Magic fan, I'd be pretty pissed with Vazquez right now.


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## JNice

Miamiballer2k5 said:


> Hedo played SG alot last year and even started games there.



I don't recall Hedo ever starting at SG nor hardly ever playing there.


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## JNice

Matiz said:


> while these comments about NBA being his life dreams and that kind of stuff- sorry but most of american publicity will have to wake up and understand that unlike in USA, NBA is not the dream to every european basketball player...


That's fine - then don't declare for the NBA draft.


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## KingOfTheHeatians

This sucks for you guys. What a pathetic move by Vasquez. It would've been a bad pick for the Magic even if he'd come over. Now, it's just disastrous. You just can't afford to let a lottery pick go to waste. 

Personally, I thought you guys should've taken Gerald Green and let him play the 2.


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## Yyzlin

I guess I should be disappointed that Vazquez isn't coming over, but I'm not really. We hold his rights indefinitely, and well, it's not like we were going to seriously contend anytime soon anyways. But this only magnifies my disappointment in the draft. Just far too many quality players passed on.


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## hobojoe

JNice said:


> I don't recall Hedo ever starting at SG nor hardly ever playing there.


Immediately following the Mobley trade he did for 7 games until Christie took over the starting job for a little while, then eventually when Christie got injured/disappeared from the team, Francis was moved to SG and Nelson started.

http://www.nba.com/games/20050112/ORLMIN/boxscore.html?nav=page
http://www.nba.com/games/20050114/ORLDET/boxscore.html?nav=page
http://www.nba.com/games/20050114/ORLDET/boxscore.html?nav=page
http://www.nba.com/games/20050120/HOUORL/boxscore.html?nav=page
http://www.nba.com/games/20050122/PHIORL/boxscore.html?nav=page
http://www.nba.com/games/20050124/ORLHOU/boxscore.html?nav=page
http://www.nba.com/games/20050125/ORLMEM/boxscore.html?nav=page


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## Sánchez AF

Totally not cool totally waste of pick, Hes so ****ing cobarde is not even funny specially with some international player who really want Play in the NBA


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## c_dog

bad luck, even if it was a horrible pick to begin with imo. just when you think things can't get worse.

you know what though? the magic are better off without him. who needs a [edit] on their team anyway? these european players are becoming softer everyday. i say they can stay in europe.

one thing i hate the most is soft big man, and he happens to be so soft he ain't even coming. that is pathetic.


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## JNice

Yyzlin said:


> I guess I should be disappointed that Vazquez isn't coming over, but I'm not really. We hold his rights indefinitely, and well, it's not like we were going to seriously contend anytime soon anyways. But this only magnifies my disappointment in the draft. Just far too many quality players passed on.



I pretty much agree. Short term it sucks. Long term, it probably doesn't really make much of a difference and could actually end up benefitting Orlando.

I still have a feeling he'll be on the team next year.


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## hobojoe

c_dog said:


> bad luck, even if it was a horrible pick to begin with imo. just when you think things can't get worse.
> 
> you know what though? the magic are better off without him. who needs a [edit] on their team anyway? these european players are becoming softer everyday. i say they can stay in europe.
> 
> one thing i hate the most is soft big man, and he happens to be so soft he ain't even coming. that is pathetic.


The thing is from what I've seen from him on the basketball court, he's not soft at all. He's not your typical European finesse player. He can shoot the ball well for a big man, but he's an aggressive player in the paint and certainly doesn't shy away from contact. I don't think him being afraid to make the jump to the NBA has anything to do with how he actually plays on the court.


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## X-Factor

I know we wasted the pick, and there were about 7 better selections that could have been made, I'm hoping that Vazquez will come back and play, sooner then later. I don't think this situation should be taken the way a lot of people are taking it. "We ****** up the pick so don't care if even comes over now". I'm sure he would provide some help to our depth, even if he wasn't good enough to start. Sure we screwed up the pick, but now that it's happened we got to accept that it's happened and move on with it.


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## lw32

JNice said:


> I pretty much agree. Short term it sucks. Long term, it probably doesn't really make much of a difference and could actually end up benefitting Orlando.
> 
> I still have a feeling he'll be on the team next year.


I'd have to disagree. Vazquez has now shown us that he doesn't have the confidence nor the mental toughness to compete in the NBA. If he doesn't believe that he can make it himself, do you really believe others (our coaching staff) are going to believe in him? He's got the confidence of Darko, but he hasn't even stepped on the court. I'd call him a coward, frankly. Sure, he might be making the best decision for himself, which he should put first, but he should have made this decision far before he got drafted in the lottery. It's scary to see others believed in him, when Vazquez didn't even have enough confidence to believe in himself. I don't know one NBA player who doesn't believe he should be in the League, and frankly I don't want anyone in the League who doesn't think they belong. He might be honest in his assessment of himself, but how far has honesty gotten a top athlete? These are not qualities of an NBA player.

Vazquez was not a popular pick, then fans (me included) started to warm up to the idea that maybe he could be a decent player who could help a little straight away, so of course when he decides to take these actions he will become a victim of harsh criticism. If he knew he wasn't ready for the NBA, why did he fool everyone into believing he would come over? He showed up for the Draft night, he seemed happy, if you ask me it was all a ploy to up negotiations in Spain and get more money over there from his current club (or Madrid).

To say most of us are not happy with anything the Magic are doing lately would be an understatement, I hate to admit it but we might be headed in the wrong direction. Even the Hawks look to be headed upwards, yet, with every move we make it seems we are sinking. You have to admit there's a problem when we all have to worry what boneheaded move our management will make next.


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## Zalgirinis

www.acb.com

*Fran Vazquez today (or yesterday) signed a 4 years contract with Akashvayu Girona.* This team finished only 16th of 18 in Spain last season, but before this season they are rocking the market getting big name players one after the other. This probably means that Vazquez is choosing Europe for much longer term than one year.


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## HKF

He signed a 4 year contract. LOL. :rofl:

Props to you Zalgrinis, for the link.


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## JNice

..

Ouch, 4 years. That sure does make it a wasted pick. If true, I guess the Orlando co-GMs won't be flying over to talk to Fran. What a bum.


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## hobojoe

4 yeard deal? God damn... Why are the Magic's GMs even bothering to fly over to Spain tomorrow morning then?


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## Matiz

JNice said:


> That's fine - then don't declare for the NBA draft.


yeah, but some are automaticaly eligible and some use it for increasing their value, I disagree with it (it's really not fair...), but in some cases it might happen, anyway managers are to blaim here...

and on the opposite of what some media are saying, I think Vasquez didn't really show some speciall interest for NBA in the first place- where did you see a lottery pick not even working out for any particular team, and just arriving few days before the draft for the public workouts...


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## lw32

Matiz said:


> yeah, but some are automaticaly eligible and some use it for increasing their value, I disagree with it (it's really not fair...), but in some cases it might happen, anyway managers are to blaim here...
> 
> and on the opposite of what some media are saying, I think Vasquez didn't really show some speciall interest for NBA in the first place- where did you see a lottery pick not even working out for any particular team, and just arriving few days before the draft for the public workouts...


If you're not interested in the NBA, why even bother showing up to NBA draft night, shaking hands with Stern and wearing the team cap? Why would you bother making the journey if you don't have any reason (whether it's to up his value or legitimate interest) to be there?



From Fran Himself said:


> Most people don’t know this, but I:
> “I am willing to do anything I can to be the best I can be for Orlando.”


Here's a link just to show how he set up our organization. Sure, we took the bait and were fooled, but the way Vazquez has done business is low, and has no place in any sports.


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## JNice

Matiz said:


> yeah, but some are automaticaly eligible and some use it for increasing their value, I disagree with it (it's really not fair...), but in some cases it might happen, anyway managers are to blaim here...
> 
> and on the opposite of what some media are saying, I think Vasquez didn't really show some speciall interest for NBA in the first place- where did you see a lottery pick not even working out for any particular team, and just arriving few days before the draft for the public workouts...


I was under the impression he wasn't working out for teams because he was still playing ball overseas. I recall articles on draftexpress talking about head to head matchups of Fran and Tiago Splitter not too long before the draft.


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## JNice

> “We’re pretty connected with some of the American players there and they all said it was Fran’s dream to play in the NBA,” Twardzik said. “Those guys said Fran was constantly picking their brains about how tough the NBA was and what it was like to live in the United States.


...


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## JNice

From dimemag.com Daily Dime:



> Peace, Fran Vazquez. Selected 11th overall in the June draft by the Magic, everyone thinks that Vaquez is NBA-ready. Everybody but Fran, who has announced that he will most likely play for Real Madrid next season. Check out the quote from Vazquez: "I’ve said `no,’ because I was afraid to adapt to the American way of life, and of not giving the level they have asked,’’ Vazquez told a Spanish newspaper. "I’m not a coward, but I prefer to stay in Spain, progress, and who knows? Maybe jump to the NBA in a few years.’’ How frustrated are you if you’re a Magic fan? ...


Answer: Very


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## JNice

..

From Steve Kyler at Hoopsworld.com - 



> The Magic did not have Vasquez in for a personal meeting and drafted him solely on the 8 plus games they scouted. Rumor has it Vasquez was not the 1st or 2nd option on the board for the Magic. Charlie Villanueva was their first option, and Andrew Bynum was their second – with both of them gone at #11, the Magic grabbed the third player they had ranked in Vasquez despite reports of poor workouts in New York days before the draft, and despite having no formal discussions with Vasquez or his European agent. The Magic admitted this week that they had not been talking with Vasquez personally rather his agents Marc Cornstein and Jose Cobelo. Should Fran stick to his guns and stay in Spain – the Magic will hold his NBA rights indefinitely, which is a tradable asset worth about $1.5 million – the 1st year value of the rookie deal Fran would sign. The Magic have already hinted they would pay the maximum allowable in the new collective bargaining agreement towards the rumored $650,000 buyout Vasquez has, and offered to help Vasquez secure financing on the balance.



Interesting that Villanueva was first one the Orlando list.


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## Miamiballer2k5

Andrew Bynum would have been awesome for the Magic. He would have been able to develop behind Kelvin Cato, Tony Battie for a year and play with Dwight.


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## JNice

Miamiballer2k5 said:


> Andrew Bynum would have been awesome for the Magic. He would have been able to develop behind Kelvin Cato, Tony Battie for a year and play with Dwight.



Maybe ... I'm not sold on him but the potential is there. Bynum certainly would have been better than nobody. Hell, at this point, picking Nate Robinson at 11 would have been a better pick.


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## hobojoe

JNice said:


> Maybe ... I'm not sold on him but the potential is there. Bynum certainly would have been better than nobody. Hell, at this point, picking Nate Robinson at 11 would have been a better pick.


 We should've asked Dickie V for advice. Sean May, Danny Granger, Joey Graham, Hakim Warrick, Francisco Garcia, hell even Salim Stoudamire or Daniel Ewing. :laugh:

Seriously though, it's pretty sad when you can look back and say our team would be better off had Dickie V been our GM for at least the draft. He would've taken Sean May without a doubt...


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## Enigma

hobojoe said:


> We should've asked Dickie V for advice. Sean May, Danny Granger, Joey Graham, Hakim Warrick, Francisco Garcia, hell even Salim Stoudamire or Daniel Ewing. :laugh:
> 
> Seriously though, it's pretty sad when you can look back and say our team would be better off had Dickie V been our GM for at least the draft. He would've taken Sean May without a doubt...


He also would have taken Okafor over Howard so don't go too far with that.


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## Enigma

Miamiballer2k5 said:


> Andrew Bynum would have been awesome for the Magic. He would have been able to develop behind Kelvin Cato, Tony Battie for a year and play with Dwight.


Possibly, but he was gone before the Magic drafted.


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## Miamiballer2k5

Yeah I know that, I meant if he would have been there.


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## hobojoe

Enigma said:


> He also would have taken Okafor over Howard so don't go too far with that.


Well of course I wouldn't want him to be our GM, I'm just saying in this case he likely would've helped. Although I do think if we can get Gortat over in the next few years, he'll prove to be a huge steal for us.


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## JNice

hobojoe said:


> Well of course I wouldn't want him to be our GM, I'm just saying in this case he likely would've helped. Although I do think if we can get Gortat over in the next few years, he'll prove to be a huge steal for us.



Maybe he'll playing next year. We need another big man now and there aren't a whole lot of options.


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## faygo34

that sucks that you get absolutely nothing out of this. i thought we trailblazer fans had it bad...


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## hobojoe

JNice said:


> Maybe he'll playing next year. We need another big man now and there aren't a whole lot of options.


:laugh: I need some sleep.

I had to read over your post and my post that you quoted 3 times before I realized you meant Gortat may play for us next year, not Dickie V.


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## NugzFan

JNice said:


> ..
> 
> Unless we get the #1 pick, our draft luck officially sucks ***.


dont start that **** - back to back #1s (the 2nd one was insane luck....one ping pong ball!?)


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## JNice

hobojoe said:


> :laugh: I need some sleep.
> 
> I had to read over your post and my post that you quoted 3 times before I realized you meant Gortat may play for us next year, not Dickie V.


:laugh:

God I hope we don't see Dickie V suit up .. unless he can handle the rock ... baby.


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## JNice

NugzFan said:


> dont start that **** - back to back #1s (the 2nd one was insane luck....one ping pong ball!?)



What? Don't start what?

I think you misunderstood. I am saying that unless we get the #1 pick, which is usually a pretty obvious choice, we suck at the draft. What is wrong with that?


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## NugzFan

JNice said:


> What? Don't start what?
> 
> I think you misunderstood. I am saying that unless we get the #1 pick, which is usually a pretty obvious choice, we suck at the draft. What is wrong with that?


you said draft luck - thats the lotto. after that its NOT luck. its your front office and their scouting abilities. dont blame this on bad luck - your team should have researched this spainiard better.


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## WhoRocks

I think it's a combination of factors that have led to this, one of them being bad luck. However I'm none impressed by the fact that noone on the Magic organisation spoke to Vasquez before we drafted him; yeah we spoke to his agent but c'mon, we're not drafting his agent. Although as it turns out we could have drafted his agent or even Dickie V cos we're gettin the same amount of court time from all of them.

Damn, I don't know if its worse that Magic management make boneheaded mistake after mistake, or that us fans keep hoping like we're ina bad relationship that things are gonna change. Hope can drive a man insane...


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## JNice

NugzFan said:


> you said draft luck - thats the lotto. after that its NOT luck. its your front office and their scouting abilities. dont blame this on bad luck - your team should have researched this spainiard better.


It is a little of both, bad luck and bad decisions. There is a big luck factor in the draft, especially when outside of the top few picks. 

Like Jeryl Sasser and Ryan Humphrey, those are bad picks. But guys like Steven Hunter and Reece Gaines, I don't think those were necessarily bad picks. Drafting an uber athletic 7-footer who runs like a gazelle, not usually a bad move. And Gaines, well, nobody expecting him to be as terrible as he was. Everybody had him pegged for Orlando at 15 and most everyone thought it was the perfect pick for Orlando and that he'd contribute right away. We were all wrong on that one.


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## Miamiballer2k5

a bad pick is someone who is taken in the top 20 and can't at least stay in the league for five years or is takin in the top 10 and never agerages above 10 ppg. thats how i see it


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