# NY Post: CHICAGO, NOT N.Y., IS DAVIS' KIND OF TOWN



## bullet (Jul 1, 2003)

> Davis, 37 and in the last year of his deal, does not want to play for the Knicks who acquired him last week in the Eddy Curry trade, but team president Isiah Thomas is not willing to waive him and be liable for the full $13.7 million. *Knicks* officials, sources say, are amenable to a buyout  that could *save* them a few million on his contract. Davis would then re-sign with Chicago.


Knicks and save in same sentence????

anyway , buyout talks.

http://www.nypost.com/sports/knicks/knicks.htm


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## L.O.B (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: NY post:CHICAGO, NOT N.Y., IS DAVIS' KIND OF TOWN*

Eddy Curry is now wearing #34 might be a good indicator that AD won't be a Knick
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/story/354433p-302174c.html


> NUMBERS GAME: Maybe Antonio Davis won't be a Knick after all. Eddy Curry originally grabbed No. 32 out of respect for Davis, who Curry felt would want No. 34. But two days ago, Curry was handed No. 34 - Charles Oakley's old number.


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## madox (Jan 6, 2004)

*Re: NY post:CHICAGO, NOT N.Y., IS DAVIS' KIND OF TOWN*

So besides giving up Thomas, Sweetney, their #1 pick, 2 #2 picks, and the conditional swap,

the Knicks will also be losing a valuable $14 million expiring contract,

and will effectively be paying Curry about $20 million in salary this year. 


Wow. 


(Feel free to mention if I'm misunderstanding the ramifications of an AD buyout)


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## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

*Re: NY post:CHICAGO, NOT N.Y., IS DAVIS' KIND OF TOWN*

It's really not a big deal if they release AD especially if they make him cough up a few millon. It's just like they bought out Tim Thomas instead of trading him. Thomas wasn't even in their plans.

So it's not like they are paying Curry $20M.

And as far as expiring contracts, they still have another for $16M. How many do you need? They will use them to get good players. And they just got one.


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## TRUTHHURTS (Mar 1, 2003)

*Re: NY post:CHICAGO, NOT N.Y., IS DAVIS' KIND OF TOWN*



madox said:


> So besides giving up Thomas, Sweetney, their #1 pick, 2 #2 picks, and the conditional swap,
> 
> the Knicks will also be losing a valuable $14 million expiring contract,
> 
> ...



I dont think the knicks will be buying AD out but that he will be buying the knicks out.I cant see the knicks agreeing top let him go without him letting go of a HUGE chunk of that money .They just have no reason to really .

If Ad doesnt report he will be fined and cmon hes the president of the players association.Is he willing to forego 8-10 million dollars of that salary to return ot the Bulls ?


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## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

*Re: NY post:CHICAGO, NOT N.Y., IS DAVIS' KIND OF TOWN*



johnston797 said:


> It's really not a big deal if they release AD especially if they make him cough up a few millon. It's just like they bought out Tim Thomas instead of trading him. Thomas wasn't even in their plans.
> 
> So it's not like they are paying Curry $20M.


Actually, if they buy out AD, thats exactly what its like. 

Tim Thomas wasn't in their plans? Had he not been traded do you think he would have just gotten one DNP after another one season after playing 28 minutes a game? I doubt they were going to re-sign him, but they certainly didn't effectively "waive" him because had the trade not gone through, he would have been a key part of their rotation. 

The trade is what it is. You don't have to like it no matter what. But you also don't have to transparently spin every aspect of it to make it look even better or to justify your opinion. Simply saying that Curry is more valuable than the return considerations will suffice, and it is reasonably defendable.


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## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

*Re: NY post:CHICAGO, NOT N.Y., IS DAVIS' KIND OF TOWN*



Ron Cey said:


> Tim Thomas wasn't in their plans? Had he not been traded do you think he would have just gotten one DNP after another one season after playing 28 minutes a game? I doubt they were going to re-sign him, but they certainly didn't effectively "waive" him because had the trade not gone through, he would have been a key part of their rotation.


As far as playing time last year, NYKs went out and got their Q, the rookie PG, Lee, and Frye. Initially, I thought it was Crawford that would be feeling the pinch, but most news reports that I have read later indicated it was TT. Which makes a lot of sense. TT was in his last year of the contract and talked poorly about the Knicks post-trade. Crawford is a Larry Brown cheerleader.

*Don't let the hate blind you.* TT was getting paid $14M and worth between $5M (top value) and next to nill (bottom value) to NY. *That's $9M to $14M that was gone - a sunk cost.*


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## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

*Re: NY post:CHICAGO, NOT N.Y., IS DAVIS' KIND OF TOWN*

Because he took eRob's roster spot, did Jared Reiner cost John Paxson $11M last year?


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## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

*Re: NY post:CHICAGO, NOT N.Y., IS DAVIS' KIND OF TOWN*

The Knicks were going to trade Thomas's expiring contract anyway. Can the Knicks trade AD's bought out contract? Do the Knicks have the right to offset salary if he signs with the bulls if the knicks buyout vs. waiving?


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## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

*Re: NY post:CHICAGO, NOT N.Y., IS DAVIS' KIND OF TOWN*



spongyfungy said:


> The Knicks were going to trade Thomas's expiring contract anyway. Can the Knicks trade AD's bought out contract? Do the Knicks have the right to offset salary if he signs with the bulls if the knicks buyout vs. waiving?


You can't trade a bought-out contract, but the NYKs would get a partial offset from any contract that he signs.


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

*Re: NY post:CHICAGO, NOT N.Y., IS DAVIS' KIND OF TOWN*

not to take this thread in another direction or anything, but sounds like good times are abounding in charlotte... :smilewink



> Hold up, hold up" Brown yelled throughout the workouts as he frequently interrupted yesterday's scrimmage to point out a physical or mental breakdown. *And no one was spared. Stephon Marbury was questioned about ill-advised passes and poor decisions as much as rookie point guard Nate Robinson.
> 
> Jerome James was admonished for standing still, Jamal Crawford took heat for a defensive breakdown and Trevor Ariza was bluntly told to improve his shot selection.
> 
> ...



and with all due respect to those who have been riding brown this week, there is no way he turns this around in one year. 



http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/story/354434p-302174c.html


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## bullsville (Jan 23, 2005)

*Re: NY post:CHICAGO, NOT N.Y., IS DAVIS' KIND OF TOWN*



Larry Brown said:


> "This is the not the same situation I walked into in Detroit," Brown said. "Those guys all knew how to play. There weren't a lot of things I told them that they haven't heard or done before."


LMAO, good one.

No, Larry, you're not in Kansas anymore.


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## Showtyme (Jun 24, 2002)

Brown's got a shot at it. There's enough new blood in Robinson, Frye, and Curry to make the team start looking and acting different. Losing Tim Thomas might have helped that cause as well.

I don't know that they are headed anywhere besides a first-round exit, but such results would be electrifying for New York. Bringing even one playoff series back to Madison Square Garden would be a pretty big accomplishment. And honestly, Stephon Marbury, for all the naysaying, is still one of the most explosive players in the league. Jamal Crawford is probably levelling out at his "potential", but you can't argue with his ability to score. The same is true of Curry. And Crawford and Curry will almost definitely play off of each other; I think they've wanted to be the next hip-hop version of Stockton and Malone ever since they've met. They are both young enough to consider this year the first real year of their basketball careers. Frye is a big man that moves well, rebounds well, and can finish near the hoop. He's not unlike a Nazr Mohammed, who they lost, except that he's a little more fluid. Nate Robinson is looking like he'll belong in the elite category of point guards drafted this year (Paul, Felton, Deron).

Attitudes and all that, Isaiah has directly addressed by bringing in Brown. That is probably the best move anyone could make in addressing an issue of attitudes.

I think the components are in place to make a run at the playoffs. The East has gotten a lot stronger but mostly it's at the top. The Knicks remain one of the most talented teams, and it shouldn't be hard to make the 7th or 8th seed in the conference. I can't imagine that they couldn't beat out Milwaukee or Boston for that playoff spot.


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## fl_flash (Aug 19, 2002)

*Re: NY post:CHICAGO, NOT N.Y., IS DAVIS' KIND OF TOWN*



mizenkay said:


> not to take this thread in another direction or anything, but sounds like good times are abounding in charlotte... :smilewink
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yep! That's why I'm loving the unconditional pick this year and the potential pick swap next season. Personally, I don't think Brown lasts two full seasons. He's no spring chicken and he's the biggest drama queen as a coach that I've ever seen. Can't wait for the season to start!


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## bullsville (Jan 23, 2005)

*Re: NY post:CHICAGO, NOT N.Y., IS DAVIS' KIND OF TOWN*



Larry Brown said:


> "You guys forget everything we worked on for six days," Brown said. "Nobody is setting a screen, cutting and we end up with a (bad) shot."


Welcome to Oz, Larry.


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

Hmmm . . . identifying players' weaknesses. Calling them out on it immediately and getting them to rethink their approach to the game. Getting everyone on the same page in terms of defensive intensity and offensive execution.

You know, I have no idea how Brown has put together such a unmatched legacy of turning teams around as soon as he arrives.


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## SpartanBull (Oct 12, 2003)

*Re: NY post:CHICAGO, NOT N.Y., IS DAVIS' KIND OF TOWN*



bullsville said:


> LMAO, good one.
> 
> *No, Larry, you're not in Kansas anymore.*



LMAO, now THAT'S a good one. :clap:


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## bullsville (Jan 23, 2005)

ScottMay said:


> Hmmm . . . identifying players' weaknesses. Calling them out on it immediately and getting them to rethink their approach to the game. Getting everyone on the same page in terms of defensive intensity and offensive execution.
> 
> *You know, I have no idea how Brown has put together such a unmatched legacy of turning teams around as soon as he arrives*.


I don't understand it, either. 

Nets- LB took over a team that won 24 games the previous season and took them to 44 wins the next year. Great job.

Spurs- Took over a 31 win team and led them to 21 wins the next season. So you COULD say he turned them around, only for the worse.

Clippers- Took over midseason for a team that was 22-25, and led them to a 41-41 record in his only full season as coach. Barely any improvement at all.

Pacers- Took at 41 win team to 47 wins. An improvement, but he didn't "turn the team around" since they were already a playoff team when he got there.

Sixers- Took a 22 win team to 31 wins. Not bad.

Pistons- Took a 50 win team and won 54 and 54. 

So in reality, the job that Skiles did in his first full season as Bulls coach was probably a greater "turning the team around as soon as he arrives" than anything Brown has ever done.


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

bullsville said:


> So in reality, the job that Skiles did in his first full season as Bulls coach was probably a greater "turning the team around as soon as he arrives" than anything Brown has ever done.


Exactly. I mean, except for the part where Skiles had 68 games in which to coach the Bulls the season before that, going 19-49.

I'm surprised you forgot about that 19-49. You toss that out of Skiles's career record, and his winning % is downright impressive. Winning percentage was something you fixated on when comparing Skiles to Jeff Van Gundy, you know, back when Skiles was asking for more money and you were agitating to let him walk.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

ScottMay said:


> Exactly. I mean, except for the part where Skiles had 68 games in which to coach the Bulls the season before that, going 19-49.
> 
> I'm surprised you forgot about that 19-49. You toss that out of Skiles's career record, and his winning % is downright impressive. Winning percentage was something you fixated on when comparing Skiles to Jeff Van Gundy, you know, back when Skiles was asking for more money and you were agitating to let him walk.



Scott, you have officially become the voice of reason on this board. Inspite of some of the insults been tossed in your direction.


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## bullsville (Jan 23, 2005)

ScottMay said:


> Exactly. I mean, except for the part where Skiles had 68 games in which to coach the Bulls the season before that, going 19-49.
> 
> I'm surprised you forgot about that 19-49. You toss that out of Skiles's career record, and his winning % is downright impressive. Winning percentage was something you fixated on when comparing Skiles to Jeff Van Gundy, you know, back when Skiles was asking for more money and you were agitating to let him walk.


Huh?

I mentioned Skiles' first FULL season as Bulls coach. And for the record, the team went 19-47 (.288) under Skiles, which is BETTER than the 4-12 (.250) record they had when Skiles took over. So that's an improvement as well.

And I replied to a comment about Larry's "unmatched legacy of turning teams around as soon as he arrives." I guess you have no comment on the facts of that legacy, since you didn't comment on them at all.


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## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

bullsville said:


> Huh?
> 
> I mentioned Skiles' first FULL season as Bulls coach. And for the record, the team went 19-47 (.288) under Skiles, which is BETTER than the 4-12 (.250) record they had when Skiles took over. So that's an improvement as well.


Yep, of course, the Bulls got their Circus trip out of the way b/f Skiles was put into place. Same circus trip that contributed to Skiles 0-9 at the start of last seasons.


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## bullsville (Jan 23, 2005)

johnston797 said:


> Yep, of course, the Bulls got their Circus trip out of the way b/f Skiles was put into place. Same circus trip that contributed to Skiles 0-9 at the start of last seasons.


I agree.

Of course, the Nets' 20-game first-year turnaround might have had something to do with the fact that the team added two top-10 picks, #3 Buck Williams (15/12 as a rookie) and #10 Albert King.

The Sixers' first-year improvement of 9 games might have had something to do with the fact that the team added Jim Jackson, Theo Ratliff and Tim Thomas over the summer.

And the Pistons' 4-game improvement and run to the title might have had something to do with the team adding Sheed midway through Brown's first season.

Hell, we can argue the details of each coach's record all day, but I have a feeling many people would rather just stick with the "Brown is a miracle-worker" train of thought.

We shall see.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

In my opinion, taking that Philly team that had Iverson and little else to the finals is the best coaching job in the last 10 years. That team didnt have much talent at all. And while I am at it, taking a detroit team that was talented though not overly so and basically sweeping (4-1 and the loss should have been a win) the highly favored Lakers would be #2.


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## bullsville (Jan 23, 2005)

rlucas4257 said:


> In my opinion, taking that Philly team that had Iverson and little else to the finals is the best coaching job in the last 10 years. That team didnt have much talent at all. And while I am at it, taking a detroit team that was talented though not overly so and basically sweeping (4-1 and the loss should have been a win) the highly favored Lakers would be #2.


I can't argue with either of those.

That Philly team had lots of good/great defenders but only AI on offense (Theo Ratliff was their 2nd leading scorer), and I didn't think the Pistons would even win a game in the Finals vs the Lakers.

Unfortunately, neither of these examples jive with Brown's "unmatched legacy of turning teams around as soon as he arrives", since Sixers didn't make the Finals until Larry's 4th season in Philly and the Pistons were a 50-win Conference Finals team when Larry took over.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

bullsville said:


> I can't argue with either of those.
> 
> That Philly team had lots of good/great defenders but only AI on offense (Theo Ratliff was their 2nd leading scorer), and I didn't think the Pistons would even win a game in the Finals vs the Lakers.
> 
> Unfortunately, neither of these examples jive with Brown's "unmatched legacy of turning teams around as soon as he arrives", since Sixers didn't make the Finals until Larry's 4th season in Philly and the Pistons were a 50-win Conference Finals team when Larry took over.


valid point bullsville.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

bullsville said:


> I don't understand it, either.
> 
> Nets- LB took over a team that won 24 games the previous season and took them to 44 wins the next year. Great job.
> 
> ...


it all depends on how you want to look at it.

LB took over the spurs with the understanding that they were in the tank for a year....waiting on the admiral, the 2nd year 5 of his top 6 scorers were newcomers (terry cummings , mo cheeks , rod strickland,d.robinson and sean elliot.) that next year they won 56
.

the clips had their highest 2 year totals in wins since the 70's , under brown when they were in the atlantic division , known as the buffalo braves and when brown took them over at midseason , he went 23-12 with them and they won 45 games that season...qualifies to me as immediate turnaround.


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## bullsville (Jan 23, 2005)

Da Grinch said:


> it all depends on how you want to look at it.
> 
> LB took over the spurs with the understanding that they were in the tank for a year....waiting on the admiral, the 2nd year 5 of his top 6 scorers were newcomers (terry cummings , mo cheeks , rod strickland,d.robinson and sean elliot.) that next year they won 56
> .
> ...


Good points, grinch.

True about the Spurs, but they didn't turn it around in LB's first season either way.

And with the Clips, yes he took over a 22-25 team and they went 23-12 the rest of the season. Unfortunately, with a summer and a training camp under Larry they slipped to 41-41 in his only full season. So the turnaround was immediate but it didn't even last one season, they were almost a .500 team when he took over and when he left.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

rlucas4257 said:


> In my opinion, taking that Philly team that had Iverson and little else to the finals is the best coaching job in the last 10 years. That team didnt have much talent at all.


Dikembe Mutombo won defensive player of the year and made the All-NBA 2nd team that year. He was clearly the difference between making the finals and being the average team that they were with just Larry Brown, Iverson and scraps.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

Man, if we get Davis back, we completely robbed them blind.


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## Showtyme (Jun 24, 2002)

Sir Patchwork said:


> Man, if we get Davis back, we completely robbed them blind.


That's not for sure, but I'd agree that at least, we got very decent value back. AD and JYD for Rose and Marshall was a far more inferior trade, and Frank Williams, Othella Harrington for Crawford and JYD... even worse. I like Othella, but talent-wise we did not make out in that trade.

This one will look much better on paper, but the truth is, we don't know. It's entirely possible that Eddy Curry is the next great NBA center. He is only 22 and he'll see many more minutes under coach Brown. As a matter of fact, I think the Bulls have contributed to his advantage on the Knicks by having him coached under Skiles, so Brown's style of coaching will be nothing new to him while it'll be tougher for other players to deal with. Crawford had that also, and Malik Rose with Pops, but Eddy is coming from a continuity in coaching that will help him make that transition all the easier.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

Showtyme said:


> This one will look much better on paper, but the truth is, we don't know. It's entirely possible that Eddy Curry is the next great NBA center. He is only 22 and he'll see many more minutes under coach Brown. As a matter of fact, I think the Bulls have contributed to his advantage on the Knicks by having him coached under Skiles, so Brown's style of coaching will be nothing new to him while it'll be tougher for other players to deal with. Crawford had that also, and Malik Rose with Pops, but Eddy is coming from a continuity in coaching that will help him make that transition all the easier.


I'd say the chance of Curry becoming the next great NBA center isn't as good as us getting a superstar with the pick they gave us. That is to say, the chance of either happening is slim.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

Sir Patchwork said:


> I'd say the chance of Curry becoming the next great NBA center isn't as good as us getting a superstar with the pick they gave us. That is to say, the chance of either happening is slim.



Depends on the draft and the pick. But without protection on the pick, did I read that correctly?, you have to assume that was the crown jewel for the Bulls. But I still think NY improves. Pax has proven himself as an astute drafter in 4 of his 6 picks but none have come in the middle of the first round. Will be he be able to deliver the gem in picks 16-22, which is where the Knicks could very well end up.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

bullsville said:


> Good points, grinch.
> 
> True about the Spurs, but they didn't turn it around in LB's first season either way.
> 
> And with the Clips, yes he took over a 22-25 team and they went 23-12 the rest of the season. Unfortunately, with a summer and a training camp under Larry they slipped to 41-41 in his only full season. So the turnaround was immediate but it didn't even last one season, they were almost a .500 team when he took over and when he left.



i dont think the spurs should count as to what he can do because the team by design were going to lose ....they literally had nothing there , there best player was willie anderson....everyone knew he was in a holding pattern the whole season and they as a team made moves based on it . no team ever has had to wait for their franchise player for 2 years, it was an arkward situation , and you are right it wasn't immediate , but it wasn't for a lack of coaching , and the knicks have all their players and they traded away some picks recently , brown is there for a turnaround now.

i tend to disregard it as an anomaly that was fixed the next season.

as for the clippers . remember this is the clips , if you avg. the seasons he was there they avg. 43 wins ...the season before he got there they won 31 and after he left 27 (thats an avg. of 29), i actually have a thread on the knicks forum from last week about how bad that team was and he won 45 with it.( i believe its still there , there isn't the thread turnover there that there is on this forum) larry brown is just a good coach and he consistently gets results ...and maybe no other coach moves around like him to show that they can do it too, but he does and he is a proven quality in that regard possibly like no other in pro sports history, and thats all there is to it.

even an average coaching job would help the knicks in the win column, they were a mess in that area last season,lenny basically couldn't reach them, they didn't play as hard as they should have, herb did reach them but he had the same problem skiles did when he took over midseason , no camp ...meaning no plays, so they ran the same stuff all game , and its hard to win like that, the knicks were noticably better defensively under williams, they usually played hard and i expect them to be much better than that under brown.


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## Soulful Sides (Oct 10, 2005)

*The Knicks are not yet working on a buyout of Davis's $14 million contract, although that day may come. N.B.A. officials are leery of any deal to waive Davis and are watching with great interest. If Davis were to immediately return to the Bulls, it could be considered salary-cap circumvention.*

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/12/sports/basketball/12knicks.html


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## bullsville (Jan 23, 2005)

Soulful Sides said:


> *The Knicks are not yet working on a buyout of Davis's $14 million contract, although that day may come. N.B.A. officials are leery of any deal to waive Davis and are watching with great interest. If Davis were to immediately return to the Bulls, it could be considered salary-cap circumvention.*
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/12/sports/basketball/12knicks.html


Complete BS.

If the league was worried about this kind of situation, they would have written the new CBA to include a provision that says a traded and then waived player cannot return to the team that traded him at any time in that season.

Simple enough.

But they specifically made the rule 30 days (or 20 days during the offseason), I really don't see how the league can say anything if all the rules are followed.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

I think Eddy CAN be the next great center, but I personally think he won't make it. He needs a attitude adjustment. He got his money so why should he improve? 

As for the league watching AD? Why did they write in the 30 day clause if it was not ok to do this?


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

i have nothing to report on AD but....




larry brown will be on the letterman show tonight.


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

from yesterday's _Bergen Record_

*They've also begun to treat Antonio Davis, their second acquisition in the Curry deal, as a non-factor, soon to be bought out of the $13.9 million left on his contract this season, although they won't say that publicly.*

http://www.bergen.com/page.php?qstr...lRUV5eTY3OTEyNjImeXJpcnk3ZjcxN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXk2


larry on letterman was amusing enough. dave had a funny zig zagging map of everywhere larry has coached which got a chuckle from larry and the audience. dave asked him if he ever got tired of the way locker rooms smell, which cracked larry up. very puffy segment. didn't really talk about the knicks. dave asked larry if eddy was ok and larry said "seems to be" or something along those lines.


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## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

> Antonio Davis has not reported to the Knicks' training camp since he returned to Chicago a week ago, and the feeling in New York is he won't be coming soon—probably not at all.
> 
> The Bulls sent Davis to New York in the Eddy Curry trade last week, but he returned to the Chicago area to be with his family while his mother-in-law had a scheduled surgery.
> 
> ...


http://chicagosports.chicagotribune...sbits,1,7371383.story?coll=cs-bulls-headlines


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## rosenthall (Aug 1, 2002)

spongyfungy said:


> http://chicagosports.chicagotribune...sbits,1,7371383.story?coll=cs-bulls-headlines


Even though he'll be coming a little late, I still think this is very good news. AD is old and cratchety, but iif he comes back, he'll probably still be our best post defender, and most physical inside presence. And having him will at least alleviate some of the burden put on Tyson Chandler for being our only true center (if he even counts). 

Having AD for 15-20 minutes a game will help us quite a bit, I think.


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/16/sports/basketball/16knicks.html


_Isiah Thomas said that, starting Saturday, power forward *Antonio Davis would be fined for every day he was not with the Knicks.* Davis was acquired in the trade that brought Eddy Curry. He reported to training camp in South Carolina but has been in Chicago since. Thomas said he had spoken with Davis and expected him to report to practice Monday._


the latest in the AD will he or won't he be a bull this season. looks like he won't be.


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/story/356244p-303662c.html


_BRIDGEPORT, Conn. - Isiah Thomas announced yesterday that disgruntled Knicks forward Antonio Davis is being fined for each day he remains away from the team.

Davis, acquired in the Eddy Curry deal, reported to camp last Tuesday - only to return to Chicago for a family matter the following day.

"We're sensitive to it," said Thomas, the Knicks' president. "He understands that he will be fined."

Davis, who began being penalized last night, informed the Knicks he will rejoin the team tomorrow. Davis, 37, is scheduled to earn $13 million this year. After the trade was completed, Davis told Larry Brown he prefers to rejoin the Bulls. Brown, who coached Davis in Indiana, said he understood Davis' predicament and was willing to grant the power forward his release.

However, Thomas said last week, "This isn't charity" and that the team had no intentions of buying out Davis' contract.

*There is a possibility the Knicks could release Davis. There is a feeling around the league that Thomas, who has been at odds with the Bulls' organization, will wait until the final week of preseason to waive the forward.*_


or maybe he will, but isiah is just being a ***** about it.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

They gave out calendars to the fans at the United Center last night.

Each Bull had his own month. There were some players that had to share months.

No Eddy, of course.

Sweetney and Tim Thomas had a month... the first one in the calendar... November.

Antonio Davis was Mr. January, which seems interesting.


Now, the first month is the easiest to replace at the last minute on one of these things, given its the outer page in the calendar. So, perhaps the last page was not printed/attached until the Curry situation was resolved. And, including AD in the trade was done at the last minute, which caused Paxson to be so angry and for him to still be included in the calendar.

Or... they just might be very confident he's coming back.


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

http://www.nypost.com/sports/knicks/53604.htm


_The Knicks are done waiting for Antonio Davis. Isiah Thomas announced last night Davis will be fined each day of his absence, starting yesterday, for being AWOL.

Thomas said Davis is expected to report tomorrow, but *missing two exhibition games will cost him more than $300,000 of his $13.8M wage. Davis will not be there tonight at the Garden. CBA rules state a player is fined 1/90 of his salary for each game suspended.*

Davis wants the Knicks to release him and management is willing only if they enter into a buyout that would save them a few million bucks. Davis plans to re-sign with the Bulls._


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

Wow. Who would have thought AD would be such a malcontent.

I guess the "right way" does not include living up to the MAX contract you signed without grumbling.

Sorry, AD, you may have to collect your multi-million dollar paychecks playing for the Knicks.

I know, I know, its a rough life.

Anyone want to switch with him?


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## bullsville (Jan 23, 2005)

Actually, right now he isn't collecting any checks, since his pay is being kept by the Knicks.

If he were being a malcontent, he would be in Knicks camp causing problems, asking to be bought out in the media, etc etc etc. 

But since he isn't getting paid, it's a case of "I don't want to play anywhere but Chicago (where my family is), *and I would rather retire and not get paid* than play somewhere else."

And who is grumbling? I haven't heard a single peep out of AD since the deal went down.

As long as AD isn't getting paid and isn't "grumbling" to the media, I certainly don't think it's fair to call him a "malcontent", since he made it clear well before the trade that he would retire if traded away from Chicago.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

bullsville said:


> Actually, right now he isn't collecting any checks, since his pay is being kept by the Knicks.
> 
> If he were being a malcontent, he would be in Knicks camp causing problems, asking to be bought out in the media, etc etc etc.
> 
> ...


First of all, where did I say he's currently collecting checks? 

He's not living up to the rules of the CBA, and thus he's getting fined. He's not living up to his end of the contract, which is to show up and play.

Its within his rights to retire if he wants to, but the article THE miz posted claims AD is going to report. Looks like he still wants his payday, if the article is correct.

His not showing up gets the issue in the papers, obviously. Message delivered. 

Its in AD's interest to keep quiet, given the crooked nature of the deal Paxson and AD have likely concocted. "The right way" has to be kept hush-hush now-a-days, or else David Stern will come calling.

If your boss is fining you for not showing up to work, you are a malcontent. The contract he signed enabled the Bulls to trade him. Now its time for AD to live up to the document he signed and be accountable, since Paxson decided to trade him.


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## southpark (Jul 5, 2003)

Davis Will Be A Knick After All 
16th October, 2005 - 3:35 am 
Newsday - Antonio Davis will be in New York and in a Knick uniform by Monday, according to Knicks president Isiah Thomas. 

In the meantime, the Knicks began fining Davis yesterday an undisclosed amount for each day he failed to report to the team. 

Davis was traded to the Knicks as part of the Eddy Curry trade. Davis reported to the Knicks training camp for one night after the trade, and then returned to be with his mother-in-law in Chicago who was undergoing surgery. 

Davis made it clear that he is not happy to be going to the Knicks 

http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/37567/20051016/davis_will_be_a_knick_after_all


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

southpark said:


> Davis Will Be A Knick After All
> 16th October, 2005 - 3:35 am
> Newsday - Antonio Davis will be in New York and in a Knick uniform by Monday, according to Knicks president Isiah Thomas.
> 
> ...


Now does this article imply that Davis will remain a Knick this whole year, or does it mean that he's just showing up for now?


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## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/story/356247p-303662c.html

BRIDGEPORT, Conn. - *Isiah Thomas* announced yesterday that disgruntled Knicks forward *Antonio Davis* is being fined for each day he remains away from the team. Davis, acquired in the *Eddy Curry* deal, reported to camp last Tuesday - only to return to Chicago for a family matter the following day.

"We're sensitive to it," said Thomas, the Knicks' president. "He understands that he will be fined."

Davis, who began being penalized last night, informed the Knicks he will rejoin the team tomorrow. Davis, 37, is scheduled to earn $13 million this year. After the trade was completed, Davis told *Larry Brown *he prefers to rejoin the Bulls. Brown, who coached Davis in Indiana, said he understood Davis' predicament and was willing to grant the power forward his release.

However, Thomas said last week, "This isn't charity" and that the team had no intentions of buying out Davis' contract. 

There is a possibility the Knicks could release Davis. There is a feeling around the league that Thomas, who has been at odds with the Bulls' organization, will wait until the final week of preseason to waive the forward. 

Under that scenario, Davis would have to wait 20 days before re-signing with Chicago.


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## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

Forgive me if I am not understand this correctly but from where I sit Isiah knows that he is going to eventually release Davis so he can go back to the Bulls but since him and Paxson do not apparently "get along" he has decided to use this as an opportunity to take a shot at Pax and wait until late in preseason to waive him, which means the Bulls will have to wait 20 days, therefore meaning the Bulls will have to start the season without Davis on the team. Is that about it? If so how childish can Isiah be? What an idiot. But whatever we will get Davis back just a couple weeks into the season. Whatever. Keep making trades with the Knicks and keep ripping Isiah off Pax. For the time being before Davis comes back Sweetney will just have to play a little center. Allen as well most likely. So what we will be fine. At least it appears Larry Brown is willing to do that classy thing for Davis while Thomas as we already know has no class. Larry will regret working with Thomas. You can bank on that.


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## Soulful Sides (Oct 10, 2005)

Why do the articles say Isiah is at odds with Paxson?


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

al trautwig interviewing isiah courtside during the knicks/mavs game just now.

isiah said AD will be in uniform tues. v. the sixers. he is not giving _anything_ away and sounds like he is sure AD will be a knick.

ugh.


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## Soulful Sides (Oct 10, 2005)

Larry Brown doesn't want him there if he doesn't want to be there. This is just part of the dance.

I would think his release would be highly contigent upon the aquisition of another rebounder like Ratliff. Can Isiah trade him or his rights for another player?


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

The Knicks actually need Davis for the same reason we do. He works well as a complement to whoever you are playing at center.

And at the very least his contract is valuable for a trade, likesay for Ratliff. Why should the Knicks by him out? Why not trade him first? Let the Blazers get the cap relief, and the Knicks get the center they want.

Davis for Ratliff just makes too much sense.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

Soulful Sides said:


> Larry Brown doesn't want him there if he doesn't want to be there. This is just part of the dance.
> 
> I would think his release would be highly contigent upon the aquisition of another rebounder like Ratliff. Can Isiah trade him or his rights for another player?



Isiah needs some cap relief himself so why not keep Davis? They dont give a **** if he wants to be there or not so Davis can either retire or go. My guess is that the bright lights and big city, plus what could be an exciting and break through year for the Knicks will win Davis over. That and being coached by one of the 2 best coaches in the league in Larry Brown. Davis will cry now, but by Christmas he could very well be a happy camper.


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## bullsville (Jan 23, 2005)

I still say it's all just public buyout negotiations and that AD will get ~$7 million from the Knicks near the end of the preseason.

After all, what's to stop AD from playing 3/4 of the season and collecting 3/4 of his money and then as the Knicks allegedly start their playoff push he says "OK, I retire! Who is the ****head now, Zeke?"?

Unless AD is not a reasonable man, I figure half of his salary is a fair buyout when you factor in the bonus of finishing his career where he wants to be (and where his wife wants him to be).


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

bullsville said:


> I still say it's all just public buyout negotiations and that AD will get ~$7 million from the Knicks near the end of the preseason.
> 
> After all, what's to stop AD from playing 3/4 of the season and collecting 3/4 of his money and then as the Knicks allegedly start their playoff push he says "OK, I retire! Who is the ****head now, Zeke?"?
> 
> Unless AD is not a reasonable man, I figure half of his salary is a fair buyout when you factor in the bonus of finishing his career where he wants to be (and where his wife wants him to be).


Methinks AD doesn't think losing $6M is very reasonable.


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## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

Mikedc said:


> Methinks AD doesn't think losing $6M is very reasonable.


If AD agrees to a buy-out and loses money *AND* Pax makes him whole next off-season, that would make me very :curse: . Who knows how many dollars are already commited to Songailia next summer.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

Davis Arrives in New York

Antonio Davis arrived in New York on Monday and will be with the Knicks for Tuesday night's exhibition game against the 76ers at the Garden.

Davis brought his wife and kids with him, which team officials took as a positive sign. Davis, 36, was upset with the trade from Chicago two weeks ago and had told Knicks officials that he did not want to play here, in part because he did not want to move his family.

Not encouraging for us.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

Mikedc said:


> Davis Arrives in New York
> 
> Antonio Davis arrived in New York on Monday and will be with the Knicks for Tuesday night's exhibition game against the 76ers at the Garden.
> 
> ...


not at all....


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

Davis is on the bench, but not in uniform for tonights knicks/sixers game. looking a little bored and not entirely happy.

was interviewed (taped) about whether he was finally embracing the move to new york - kinda speaking softly and slightly monotone (he seemed drained):

*"i had a great talk with larry who i love... great talk with isiah. i just wanted to sit down with them and clear the air about a few things so that i could fully embrace the situation, and go about the business at hand, which is being a part of this team and helping this organization the best that i can, to get back to the knicks that i know."*


yup. he's a knick.


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## jbulls (Aug 31, 2005)

mizenkay said:


> Davis is on the bench, but not in uniform for tonights knicks/sixers game. looking a little bored and not entirely happy.
> 
> was interviewed (taped) about whether he was finally embracing the move to new york - kinda speaking softly and slightly monotone (he seemed drained):
> 
> ...


Ouch.


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## Bulls96 (Jun 25, 2003)

Pax made a big mistake and soon will join his brother at unemployment line


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

****ing ****. Poop.


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## Bulls96 (Jun 25, 2003)

I am still struggling to understand why Pax did that...!? 

May be there is some slight (2%) justification for Eddy, but why AD ?!


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## bullsville (Jan 23, 2005)

You know who is thrilled about this news?

Randy Holcomb, now he probably makes the team unless some defenisve-minded veteran big man gets cut near the end of the preseason.

And Nocioni, now he's in line for more minutes at the 4 as he becomes the toughest, most physical PF on the team.


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

Mikedc said:


> ****ing ****. Poop.


Why'd you say that, MikeDC? Why? You're my hero. And you say something dirty. Like poop. Poop mouth. I hate you MikeDC, I hate you!

("Anchorman" was on HBO a LOT last month.)

Anyway, this turn of events makes for a nice little after-dinner turd to follow up a **** sandwich of a deal. The players lose a mentor, and the team loses a guy it could really use in Curry's absence. Oh, well.

The particularly hilarious/ironic thing is that Isiah is going to be furiously peddling AD and Penny's contracts, so I figure there's a good chance AD will be moved again.


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## rosenthall (Aug 1, 2002)

This is just an idea, but could we trade Tim Thomas for AD during the season?


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

rosenthall said:


> This is just an idea, but could we trade Tim Thomas for AD during the season?


I think the Bulls need to institute a blanket "Don't even think about talking to Zeke" policy, at least until we no longer have the feeling that we just woke up naked, soiled and bleeding on a set of railroad tracks after blacking out in the middle of our date with him the night before.

At the very least, I could live without that dillhole trotting out the "Pax is doing the best job he can do" line again. 

Sorry Scott, there goes my potty mouth again. If you like, I'm willing to be sent to the headmistress' office.

I'm going to go think happy thoughts for a while, which means not thinking about the Bulls for the rest of the night.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

OK, so without AD, who's going to get minutes as our second center (Chandler should start I think and Malik Allen should be our third center)?

Would we expect Othella Harrington to get the most time? Could Sweetney see some time as well?


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## SALO (Jun 6, 2002)

Has anyone signed Jabari Smith yet? I always liked him when he was with the Kings. 

I think Elden Campbell would be an ok pickup, he did a decent job for Detroit guarding Shaq the past few years.


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## narek (Jul 29, 2005)

More signs AD isn't coming back in the Daily Herald again: http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/bulls.asp?id=108352:



> With the Bulls in dire need of some inside strength, Antonio Davis showed up at a preseason game in New York on Tuesday and declared he was ready to play for the Knicks and move his family to Westchester County.
> 
> “We sat down as a family over the weekend and came to the conclusion that this is going to be a great experience for us,” Davis said. “New York offers a lot of different things, not just for my kids, but for my wife and for myself. So we’re going to take full advantage of them and enjoy this ride over the next season.”


And then there was this:


> “I was devastated by (the trade),” Davis said. “I had a great talk with (Knicks coach) Larry (Brown), whom I love, playing for him in Indiana (from 1993-97). … And I had a great talk with (general manager) Isiah (Thomas). I just wanted to sit down with them and clear the air on a few things so that I could fully embrace the situation.”
> 
> Davis’ statements Tuesday seemed to indicate he will stick with the Knicks. But it’s also possible that reporting to New York was a prerequisite for being released. Time will tell whether the Bulls have a chance to regain the services of Davis, still a strong defender even though he turns 37 on Oct. 31.


And from Brian Hanley in the Sun-times this morning:



> Given the likelihood that center Antonio Davis, who also was part of the Curry trade, is expected to be waived by the Knicks and return to the Bulls -- unlike Curry's picture, Davis' photo still hangs in the Berto Center hallway with those of the current team members -- Paxson and Skiles will have to trim two more players before the regular season starts Nov. 2. Rookie forwards Randy Holcomb and Kasib Powell are the likely cuts.


Weird.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

Sounds like AD is gonna remain a Knick...


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

Darius Miles Davis said:


> OK, so without AD, who's going to get minutes as our second center (Chandler should start I think and Malik Allen should be our third center)?
> 
> Would we expect Othella Harrington to get the most time? Could Sweetney see some time as well?


I think it's got to be Othella- they've been starting Sweets.

Othella-Songaila makes a pretty decent, if undersized backup line. They've got complementary offensive games.

I'm guessing Noc will get minutes on the many nights one of these dudes gets in foul trouble, and Thomas will get the minutes Noc got.


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## Soulful Sides (Oct 10, 2005)

> Although he admitted to being both "devastated" and "in shock" when the Chicago Bulls traded him on Oct. 4 in the deal that also brought Eddy Curry to New York, Davis said he was here to stay.
> 
> "They want me here, I want to be here," Davis said. "I'm excited to be in this locker room."
> 
> ...


http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/19/s...l=1&adxnnlx=1129741648-n0jdAy3SPKkseYij4nI6GA


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

We're really going to be a completely different team this year.

You just can't take two legit big men that ate up 54.3 MPG (57% of available minutes!) at the PF and C last season and replace them with undersized players and expect otherwise.

And, to top it off, the two main guys that need to play more minutes, Chandler and Sweetney, are known to rack up fouls by the bushel basket.


Let's hope Skiles pulls off another Houdini act.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

One major reason we picked up Songaila (other than being a great deal late in the off-season) is to replace AD's production. Davis just wasn't slated for many minutes this year. His leadership has been great obviously, but on the court we're not losing much. Songaila has every bit the high-post game on offense, and on defense we have plenty of big body depth. I'm saddened to see him as a Knick...he deserves better. I wish there was an alternative. But this isn't something that will plague our team. He was set to retire next season anyways.

Edit: I acknowledge that we need more center size though, but I didn't really consider AD to be much help with this.. He's only 6'9 and doesn't play as big as he used to. Sweetney/Othella will be our backup center combo, with Malik Allen sprinkled in. It won't be anything special, but I'm hopeful that the rest of our team is good enough to compensate. It's important to realize that this is merely a 1-year temporary solution until we can sign or trade for someone more capable of playing center.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

yodurk said:


> One major reason we picked up Songaila (other than being a great deal late in the off-season) is to replace AD's production. Davis just wasn't slated for many minutes this year. His leadership has been great obviously, but on the court we're not losing much. Songaila has every bit the high-post game on offense, and on defense we have plenty of big body depth. I'm saddened to see him as a Knick...he deserves better. I wish there was an alternative. But this isn't something that will plague our team. He was set to retire next season anyways.
> 
> Edit: I acknowledge that we need more center size though, but I didn't really consider AD to be much help with this.. He's only 6'9 and doesn't play as big as he used to. Sweetney/Othella will be our backup center combo, with Malik Allen sprinkled in. It won't be anything special, but I'm hopeful that the rest of our team is good enough to compensate. It's important to realize that this is merely a 1-year temporary solution until we can sign or trade for someone more capable of playing center.


Songolia and AD are very dissimilar players though.

AD is known for his defense, rebounding and toughness @ this stage of his career.

Songolia is a slick shooting and passing Euro bigman whos main negatives are defense, inside toughness and rebounding.

Malik Allen is also known for being a "soft" outside shooting big man. Not known for any type of inside presence or rebounding.

Which was kind of my whole point about us being a completely different type of team this year.


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