# GAME 24: Saturday 12/12 at Cleveland



## agoo (Jun 1, 2003)

Rookie Sensation [strike]Bruno Sundov[/strike] LeBron James and the Cavs are welcoming the rather toasty (one could say hot if one wanted to) Boston Celtics. This new look Celtic team is learning new things every day, last night against Toronto, they learned to count to four as their ever impressive winning streak increased by 33% from 3 to four. It took the Celtics all day Thursday and most of Friday to formulate that number, the Celtics may have a much shorter wait before they learn to count to five.

The Cavaliers actually won their last game, and it was a road game to boot. Shocking, I know. But true. They defeated Detroit by the robust score of 95-86. Carlos Boozer led the way for the Cavs with 28 points on 11-16 shooting and 9 rebounds. LeBron James had 23, 3 boards, and 9 assists. Ricky Davis also played well and had 15 points on 5-10 shooting, 9 rebounds, and five assists. Chris Mihm had 2 points and 10 rebounds in 19 minutes of action. Ghosts of Celtics past, JR Bremer and Bruno Sundov both did not play.

The Celtics and the Cavs met once this season with the good guys gaining a 9 point victory 91-82. Zydrunas Ilgauskas led the team on that day with 22 points and 7 rebounds. Chris Mihm had 10 and 9. Carlos Boozer had 8 and 11. Darius Miles even chipped in with 8 rebounds. That didn't help the Cavs as, shall we say, they produced a lot of rebound opportunities and shot a mere 35% from the field. The Celtics were led by the efforts of Tony Battie and Eric Williams on that night. Battie had 15 points and 7 boards while E had 17 and 6. Mr. Williams also went 7-9 from the line. Paul Pierce had 19 points on 6-16 shooting to go with 5 boards and 6 assists (only one TO).

To win this game, the Celtics merely need to keep up the offensive explosiveness they've found over the last six games. Even if they don't have that same explosiveness, by simply keeping the game close, they have a great shot at winning as the young Cavs, like most young teams, don't have it in them to win the close ones yet.

Dare I say that the Celtics will be going into Max-Night looking at their other hands and trying to figure-out what that next number is? I do dare say that.


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*I dare say you are speaking too soon.....*

The Cavs are tough at home. We are not good in back-to-back situations....No Raef, gimme Cleveland by 6....


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

Stopping Ricky Davis and Lebron James Early will be a factor. If we can force some bad shots, and keep Lebron from passing it to their big men, we have a good shot. If the Celtics keep shooting as they have for the past FOUR games, we have a good shot. I think Boozer will have a good game. Where's Vin? We need him to step up and we need Mike James to think he's Bird again. I like Cleveland in a down to wire game. 97-94.


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## JBone4eva (Oct 31, 2002)

keep Carlos Boozer behind a celtic on the boards, and no more than 12 points and the C's got this.. I think we're gonna tough this game out, and get this streak goin.. this team is tryna show its character with this streak..

GO C's !

*gets ready to go home for break so I can actually WATCH Celtics games*


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*Boozer has been playing great*

I saw that Detroit game and he was killin' 'em. They're tough at home; 6-4 record vs. 0-12 on the road.


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## Big John (Sep 11, 2002)

Yes, the Cavs are tough and will get tougher as the season progresses. Aside from James, Boozer, Davis and Ilgauskas, Darius Miles appears finally to be becoming a basketball player.


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## Big John (Sep 11, 2002)

Terrible first quarter of basketball. Total Paul Ball. The Celtics offense consists of giving it to Pierce and watching Miles or Ilgauskas foul him. No ball movement. And no defense. Pierce had better rotate over on LeBron James more quickly or James is going to keep sticking that jumper from the wing.

The C's are very lucky that the game is tied. If they keep this up, they will lose.


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

Perkins.


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## Big John (Sep 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>aquaitious</b>!
> Perkins.


His first 30 seconds as a Celtic. Otherwise, there were no highlights in the first half. Both teams deserve to lose.


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Big John</b>!
> 
> 
> His first 30 seconds as a Celtic. Otherwise, there were no highlights in the first half. Both teams deserve to lose.


35.something to be exact..well kinda...poor game, especially by the C's.


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## lastlaugh (Oct 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Big John</b>!
> 
> 
> His first 30 seconds as a Celtic. Otherwise, there were no highlights in the first half. Both teams deserve to lose.


Lebron seems to be the only person on his team who can score tonight.

Clevland isn't a playoff team led by Paul Pierce so they don't deserve to lose. They deserve some praise for staying in this game with two players working on the whole team.


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## Big John (Sep 11, 2002)

Well, a win is a win. I've seen better basketball games. Nice job by Pierce defensively when the game got close. Mike James was also very steady when the game was on the line.


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## Richie Rich (May 23, 2003)

4 ina row, keep'em comin'!


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## Mattsanity (Jun 8, 2003)

:O:O:O:O:O:O:O:O Are you kidding me? Paul Pierce's statline: 41 Points, 9 Rebounds, 6 Assists, 4 Steals, 2 Blocks.

The person that made the thread "Trade Pierce" is the most moronic person I've ever witnessed, and I'll never regret what I just said.


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

This was a very nice game by Pierce, I feel sorry for him, this guy is giving EVERYTHING he has got, he fell to the floor like 5 times tonight (3 on D, and 2 on O) and he just keeps on standing up, great heart and hustle. I really felt for him after he fell to the floor and got the lost ball (also the thing that won him the Tommy AND aqua-award) people crowding him and him getting no help whatsoever from some of these guys. He needs someone else to help him, weather its Antione Walker (I wish), or anyone else, but this guy needs help because it seems we'll never use Vin Baker and we can't depend on Jiri to be our 2nd option (yet).


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## lastlaugh (Oct 30, 2003)

It took a veteran like Pierce and a new Vin Baker way too much energy to beat the worst team in the NBA and you are all celebrating like we won the World Series.

I thought first round playoff losses wasn't good enough for Danny.

When we lose everyone here act's like death is out next step. When we win it's like we went to heaven.

I don't get it but I should.


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mattsanity</b>!
> :O:O:O:O:O:O:O:O Are you kidding me? Paul Pierce's statline: 41 Points, 9 Rebounds, 6 Assists, 4 Steals, 2 Blocks.
> 
> The person that made the thread "Trade Pierce" is the most moronic person I've ever witnessed, and I'll never regret what I just said.


And here come the Pierce fans to brag about the last few good games he's had....


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Richie Rich</b>!
> 4 ina row, keep'em comin'!


5 baby...


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## Big John (Sep 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mattsanity</b>!
> :O:O:O:O:O:O:O:O Are you kidding me? Paul Pierce's statline: 41 Points, 9 Rebounds, 6 Assists, 4 Steals, 2 Blocks.
> 
> The person that made the thread "Trade Pierce" is the most moronic person I've ever witnessed, and I'll never regret what I just said.


LeBron James had 37. And James is only 19 years old. Pierce had the ball on almost every possession. No wonder he scored 41.

Quite frankly it was not a good display of team basketball by either the Celtics or the Cavs. Both teams deserved to lose--- but the Cavs deserved it more lol.


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## Mattsanity (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>aquaitious</b>!
> 
> 
> And here come the Pierce fans to brag about the last few good games he's had....


What the hell? I was never a Pierce fan and never will be. I was complimenting his effort. I'm from Toronto, which mostly means that I am a Vince fan.


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## lastlaugh (Oct 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Big John</b>!
> 
> 
> LeBron James had 37. And James is only 19 years old. Pierce had the ball on almost every possession. No wonder he scored 41.
> ...


If we play Pierce this hard every night by February he won't be able to walk.


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mattsanity</b>!
> 
> 
> What the hell? I was never a Pierce fan and never will be. I was complimenting his effort. I'm from Toronto, which mostly means that I am a Vince fan.


Sorry, but when someone comes in here to post for the first time (or only once in a while) and to praise Pierce can just mean they are Pierce fans and don't care how the C's played at all.


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>lastlaugh</b>!
> 
> 
> If we play Pierce this hard every night by February he won't be able to walk.


They both lived at the Charity ('tis the season to be giving) line, and both of them had a great game, but Pierce had a better game overall wise...and we got the W.


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## Big John (Sep 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>aquaitious</b>!
> 
> 
> They both lived at the Charity ('tis the season to be giving) line, and both of them had a great game, but Pierce had a better game overall wise...and we got the W.


Well, Cleveland has no one who can cover Pierce (or anyone else) one-on-one, and they are not experienced enough to play the kind of rotating defense that the Celtics play. Ilgauskas is also not quick enough to defend the way Battie and Blount do.

Did anyone catch the Memphis-NJ score? Ouch! Way to go Griz.


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## lastlaugh (Oct 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>aquaitious</b>!
> 
> 
> They both lived at the Charity ('tis the season to be giving) line, and both of them had a great game, but Pierce had a better game overall wise...and we got the W.


Pierce barely outplayed the high schooler and imagine what James would have been able to do if he had the Celtics as his team (without Pierce) instead of Cleveland?

Lets face it. The Celtics team isn't that talented as a whole but it is light years ahead of Cleveland.


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## Richie Rich (May 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>aquaitious</b>!
> 
> 
> 5 baby...








My bad........


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*Pierce Another Great Game*

Pierce barely outSCORED the high schooler. He PLAYED so much better it is ridiculous. How about ripping him late, and going the other way? How about the hustle? The passes? 

WAY TO GO PAUL!!! WAY TO GO CELTICS!!!


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## lastlaugh (Oct 30, 2003)

I am going to shove the truth down your throat on a daily basis for as long as I can until you stop posting half truths and complete lies about stuff you know nothing about.

Pierce is supposed to dominate teams like Cleveland. Not give up 10 point leads and barely beat them.


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## agoo (Jun 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>lastlaugh</b>!
> I am going to shove the truth down your throat on a daily basis for as long as I can until you stop posting half truths and complete lies about stuff you know nothing about.
> 
> Pierce is supposed to dominate teams like Cleveland. Not give up 10 point leads and barely beat them.


Ainge and the owners changed the team name to the Boston Pierce? Not so sure I like how that flows. Well, Pierce, if that's the new name of the Boston team, defeated the Cavs. I wonder how Paul feels now that his last name is also the nickname of the team he plays for.


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*The Truth Hurts*

Ha Ha! You love it, don't you!


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Big John</b>!
> 
> 
> LeBron James had 37. And James is only 19 years old. Pierce had the ball on almost every possession. No wonder he scored 41.


Are you aware that Pierce shot 12-25 from the field, a better percentage (48%) than virtually all SG's in the League shoot every night? Also, do you not realize Pierce went to the line EIGHTEEN times and made SIXTEEN of those free throws? That is called effective basketball. Did you not see the 9 boards, 6 assists, 4 steals and 3 blocks as well? That, my friend, is production with a capital P.

When a team scores 100 six games in a row (all wins) and Pierce has 150-something points on good shooting and within that stretch, what's the problem?

I guess Pierce isn't good enough for you.


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## lastlaugh (Oct 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>VincentVega</b>!
> 
> 
> Are you aware that Pierce shot 12-25 from the field, a better percentage (48%) than virtually all SG's in the League shoot every night? Also, do you not realize Pierce went to the line EIGHTEEN times and made SIXTEEN of those free throws? That is called effective basketball. Did you not see the 9 boards, 6 assists, 4 steals and 3 blocks as well? That, my friend, is production with a capital P.
> ...


Last time I checked this team was called the Boston Celtics. Not let Paul get away with murder so he can get to the line and score all the points.

Some of us want to see a team win a game. Not see Pierce hog the ball on a daily basis.

You do realize that Pierce cannot keep this up all year long. If he is always the only go to guy by the time the real games start this team is going to embarass themselves and Pierce will take the blame. The rest of this team will have had no experience winning games and the only light will be Pierce and his getting his points.
In the end this won't help this team win and it certainly won't help us beat NJ when Pierce will be triple teamed.

I forgot. It is all about Pierce. Never mind.


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>lastlaugh</b>!
> 
> You do realize that Pierce cannot keep this up all year long.


He has before.

Ever watch other superstars play? McGrady? Iverson? Davis? How much do they shoot the ball, and what are their percentages?

I guess they shouldn't get the ball much. After all, all players are equal, right?


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## kcchiefs-fan (Oct 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>lastlaugh</b>!
> 
> 
> Last time I checked this team was called the Boston Celtics. Not let Paul get away with murder so he can get to the line and score all the points.
> ...


Pierce needs to be the guy taking the shots. Honestly, between you and ThereisnoIinteam, it cripples me with laughter when I see the amount of hypocrisy in your posts about Pierce fanatics and get on people's case when they say something derogatory about Toine. The Celtics have no other viable options at the offensive end, they're surrounded with role players at best. Kedrick hasn't developed the way we hoped. Baker's been a welcome addition this year, and he needs his touches, but the fact remains that the offense needs to flow through Pierce. This is why ultimately the franchise may have to decide between the uptempo offense and Pierce, we have yet to see if they can coexist. Do you have something against every other go-to guy in the league? Are you against superstars and think every team should be filled with solid players at similar skill levels, so the ball can be spread around compeltely evenly without consequence? Seriously, man, try and think rationally.


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## lastlaugh (Oct 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>kcchiefs-fan</b>!
> 
> 
> Pierce needs to be the guy taking the shots. Honestly, between you and ThereisnoIinteam, it cripples me with laughter when I see the amount of hypocrisy in your posts about Pierce fanatics and get on people's case when they say something derogatory about Toine. The Celtics have no other viable options at the offensive end, they're surrounded with role players at best. Kedrick hasn't developed the way we hoped. Baker's been a welcome addition this year, and he needs his touches, but the fact remains that the offense needs to flow through Pierce. This is why ultimately the franchise may have to decide between the uptempo offense and Pierce, we have yet to see if they can coexist. Do you have something against every other go-to guy in the league? Are you against superstars and think every team should be filled with solid players at similar skill levels, so the ball can be spread around compeltely evenly without consequence? Seriously, man, try and think rationally.


You only seem to show up when Pierce plays well. Where were you for the first 18 games of the season?


You just said we have to decide between the upside tempo or Paul scoring all the points. Funny when Walker said that this team would throw the uptempo idea out the window after it didn't work I seem to remember the Pierce obsessed saying he wasn't a team player but now that we have to do it so Pierce can get his points it is amazing how it all of a sudden become the thing to do?

You need to think rationally and tell me that Pierce can keep this up for 60 more games over the next 6 months? Your dillusional.

He couldn't do this last year and he had another player to share the ball with.


The Celtics are not a one man team!
When are people like you going to realize that?
We could have lost tonight against Cleveland and you would have been here syaing Pierce can't do it alone.

Your a hypocrite.


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*I got news for you*

Paul has scored 156 points in the last five games. Before he and his teammates started gellin' like Magellan, we were 7-12. Now we're .500 (although with Minny coming in that will be brief).

And he's not just scoring. He's LEADING. Diving to the floor; getting loose balls, defending. He willed us to victory tonight.

The team responded around him.

You're like a Republican going after Clinton. You hate him and you loathe yourself for rooting against the Celtics so you can give glory to Antoine. Go take a shower.


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## kcchiefs-fan (Oct 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>lastlaugh</b>!
> 
> 
> You only seem to show up when Pierce plays well. Where were you for the first 18 games of the season?
> ...


I hardly post on this forum period, but I check it virtually every night. And I didn't say we had to choose between the uptempo and Pierce scoring all the points, I said we MIGHT have to choose between the uptempo and Pierce. 

As for your second point, I don't know what the hell you're talking about. Why do we HAVE to run the uptempo for Pierce to score all his points, seems to me he was scoring a decent amount before Ainge and the uptempo ever came to town. Second off, you're generalizing and confusing me with some other poster(s) that must've gotten on Toine's case. I never got on Walker's case for his attitude. So, how is it that I'm a hypocrite? You're reachin here.


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## lastlaugh (Oct 30, 2003)

*Re: I got news for you*



> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> Paul has scored 156 points in the last five games. Before he and his teammates started gellin' like Magellan, we were 7-12. Now we're .500 (although with Minny coming in that will be brief).
> 
> And he's not just scoring. He's LEADING. Diving to the floor; getting loose balls, defending. He willed us to victory tonight.
> ...


LMAO Look who is calling the kettle black. Maybe I should go find your "I am not coming back here because Pierce isn't getting all the attention and glory and praise" posts to prove who the real homer is.

Excuse me for wanting a team that was two games away from the EASTERN CONFERNECE FINALS a few years ago to stay together and have a chance to win the whole thing.

You do not give a star away. You add to what you already have.
 :laugh: 

"PAUL SCORED 156 POINTS"
Exactly. For you it is all about Pierce getting his glory. Thanks for proving me right.


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

*Re: I got news for you*



> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> Paul has scored 156 points in the last five games. Before he and his teammates started gellin' like Magellan, we were 7-12. Now we're .500 (although with Minny coming in that will be brief).
> 
> And he's not just scoring. He's LEADING. Diving to the floor; getting loose balls, defending. He willed us to victory tonight.
> ...


Word. It really amuses me how some people simply can't see this.


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## lastlaugh (Oct 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>kcchiefs-fan</b>!
> 
> 
> He hardly post on this forum period, but I check it virtually every night. And I didn't say we had to choose between the uptempo and Pierce scoring all the points, I said we MIGHT have to choose between the uptempo and Pierce.
> ...


This is what I said


> when Walker said that this team would throw the uptempo idea out the window after it didn't work I seem to remember the Pierce obsessed saying he wasn't a team player but now that we have to do it so Pierce can get his points it is amazing how it all of a sudden become the thing to do?


I never said we had to run the uptempo for Pierce to score the points. I said we have to throw the uptempo idea out the window so Pierce can score all the points.
There is a slight difference there.


I am not confusing you with anyone. 
You are the one who made the posts about how Walker used to be your favorite player but.... posts but continued to blame him for everything.


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

Hypothetical question here.

Which scenario would you prefer?

a.) Pierce defers to less-talented players, reducing the effectiveness of the Celtics; or

b.) Pierce takes more shots than anyone else on the team because he's the most talented, thus increasing the effectiveness of the Celtics.


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## kcchiefs-fan (Oct 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>lastlaugh</b>!
> 
> 
> This is what I said
> ...


Your lack of the ability to form a coherent sentence had me confused there for a second. And what I was saying is if Pierce and the uptempo style cannot coexist, than obviously a change must be made, either by dealing Pierce and keeping the uptempo, or keeping Pierce and losing the uptempo. Do you disagree with this notion? 

I never said Toine used to be my fav. player, I said he was one of my fav. players at one time (as I've always been a Celtic fan, and was a fan of Toine's in college). And I never bashed him for his comments, which is what you were insinuating. I pointed out faults he had in his game, the biggest of which was poor shot selection and reluctance to stop shooting so many damn three's. These were valid arguments to be made on his game and ThereisnoIinteam (who you seem to be a mirror image of, and it's strange that you didn't show up until Toine was traded, hmmmmmm) took offense to them simply because he/she has a huge crush on Toine. I challenge you to find a post of mine that bashed Toine's attitude or was in no way based in reality.


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*Pierce and his glory*

All I'm saying is that Pierce has been awesome, and it is no coincidence we are 5-0 in those 5 games.

Go find those posts. I am curious to see what I said.

As for the Celtics in 2002, we were not close. We went up 2-1 with the Walker/Pierce comeback, but in those three games had only played like three good quarters. Then we were swept out three straight games. 

So, in the playoffs, we had lost 7 IN A ROW to New Jersey. It was time for a change. 

I'm sorry the Celtics (including Raef and Jiri) have been having some success, but be happy. The Mavericks smacked the Lakers last night, and Antoine played great. :grinning:


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## agoo (Jun 1, 2003)

Point of information here: The Celtics played 11 guys against the Cavs. Paul is now doing what we expected him to do once the Antoine deal went down. Lets talk about the contributions from the other guys too.


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*Amen, agoo*

Mad kudos to:

Jiri
Vinnie
Mike James
Kendrick Perkins (the tip deserved a Tommy Point) :yes:


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## lastlaugh (Oct 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>kcchiefs-fan</b>!
> 
> 
> Your lack of the ability to form a coherent sentence had me confused there for a second. And what I was saying is if the Pierce and the uptempo style cannot coexist, than obviously a change must be made, either by dealing Pierce and keeping the uptempo, or keeping Pierce and losing the uptempo. Do you disagree with this notion?
> ...





I never said or implied you said anything about Antoine's attitude. I was refering to Paul's obsessed fans in general. Which you are obviously one of since you only show up to defend him or put other players down in the name of him. (Many of Pierce fans 
only care about certain things like him getting his touches, points, rebounds, the attention, glory, all the praise etc... They can't handle when he is called out for his ball hogging, stupid shot selection, crappy % shooting the 3, leading the league in turnovers, lack of hussle that cost the team at least 6 games this year so far etc...
(I forgot. We are not allowed to mention these)


You do not have to follow every rule to being a Pierce obsessed fan you can only show signs of certain aspects of this disease that they have.


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## kcchiefs-fan (Oct 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>lastlaugh</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


As I said, you were generalizing. And what I find funny is the exact thing you're accusing me and anyone else who seems to think Pierce is a half-way decent basketball player of, is obviously the perfect description of your relationship with Toine. Anytime anybody says anything bad about him you get defensive as hell. You pass yourself off as a C's fan but relish the games where the best player does poorly and like to pat yourself on the back whenever Walker has a decent game. I rarely show up to defend Paul. Like I said, I log on here virtually every night, and I've said nary a word with Big John's countless rants on him. But when the stupidity reaches the low that you exemplify, I have a hard time refraining from posting a little common sense.


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*Pierce costing us six games?*

No. He contributed to 6 losses, just like he has contributed to these FIVE WINS IN A ROW.

Oh, and by the way, 34% shooting the three is not great, but acceptable. He is enough of a threat that guys have to run out at him, and he just draws fouls or goes by them.

If he was shooting, say, 29% from three, with more attempts, that would be bad.


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## kcchiefs-fan (Oct 28, 2002)

*Re: Pierce costing us six games?*



> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> If he was shooting, say, 29% from three, with more attempts, that would be bad.


LOL, that is funny. Two of the three things, bad 3pt % and poor shot selection, that Walker was commonly criticized for lastlaugh criticizes Pierce for. Apparently it's okay to call Pierce out on it but not Toine.


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## lastlaugh (Oct 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>kcchiefs-fan</b>!
> 
> 
> As I said, you were generalizing. And what I find funny is the exact thing you're accusing me and anyone else who seems to think Pierce is a half-way decent basketball player of, is obviously the perfect description of your relationship with Toine. Anytime anybody says anything bad about him you get defensive as hell. You pass yourself off as a C's fan but relish the games where the best player does poorly and like to pat yourself on the back whenever Walker has a decent game. I rarely show up to defend Paul. Like I said, I log on here virtually every night, and I've said nary a word with Big John's countless rants on him. But when the stupidity reaches the low that you exemplify, I have a hard time refraining from posting a little common sense.


I am sticking up for Antoine (Pierce's obsessed fans like to call him Toine as some kind of put down) because this trade was stupid. When people like the truth makes up lies about things that have not happened I have every right to call him on his lies.

I post here on a daily basis. Through the good and the bad. 
I have not posted here for any specific amount of time when Antoine wasn't doing well unlike you who wasn't here for the first 18 games of the season when Pierce cost this team almost every game due to his not trying and ball hogging.

You always feel the need to put people down every time you post anything where someone doesn't agree with you.
Your arrogance is duely noted by many of us. You can't ever post a differing opinion with out subtly attacking someone for their english (which is a hell of a lot better then yours for someone who's first language wasn't english) or some other factor that has nothing to do with the opinions at hand.

You fit the Pierce obsession characteristics perfectly.
When pointed out for your hypocrisy the name calling begins.

Common sense is when you realize that TEAM does not mean Pierce getting all the glory.
Common sense is when you realize that Pierce is not the best basketball player in the world
Common sense is realizing that Pierce is not MJ or Shaq and will never win this team a championship on his own.

Edited to add that I forgot the biggest clue to someone being a Paul Pierce obsessed fan and that is putting Antoine Walker down to make Pierce seem better.
Thanks for more proof.


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## mrsister (Sep 9, 2002)

What's wrong with people? The Celtics just won their 5th game in a row, averaging over 100 points in each. Who cares if it was against Cleveland... it was on the second of back-to-backs on the road - also the 5th game in seven nights. People can't take a moment from *****ing about whether or not Pierce is the reason they won or the reason they almost lost to see that the team is really coming together. Say whatever you want about Pierce but don't tell me they're not winning as a team. Once again, five players were in double figures. Cavs only had three. They had 22 assists and only 10 turnovers. They shot over 47 percent as a team. If there was any one thing that was the reason they almost lost, it was rebounding. The Cavs had as many offensive rebounds as the Celtics did defensive rebounds. That's why it was even that close, not because Pierce hogged the ball. If anyone was shooting 12 of 25 from the floor and got to the line 18 times, I'd give him the ball, too, no matter what his name was. If something's working, keep doing it until it stops working. Nobody told LeBron to stop shooting the ball.

People act as if it's some horrible thing that the star on the team is taking so many shots. There are five players who average more points than Pierce in the league, and four of them have attempted more shots. Only Peja has not, but he's played fewer games and is shooting over 50 percent from the floor. Stars shoot the ball. It's no newsflash. People are saying Baron Davis should start for the All-Star team. He's shooting under 40 percent from the field and has taken more shots than anyone in the league, yet he's praised. 

The Celtics have beaten Denver, Utah, Seattle, Toronto, and Cleveland, four of which are at .500 or above (three from the West). Believe me, if the team wasn't showing up and was just relying on Paul, they would never have done that. This isn't a championship team, but it's starting to realize it's potential. This team is 9th in the league in points per game, 6th in FG percentage, 7th in assists, 7th in steals. That includes the poor start to the season and doesn't include the Cavs game. If the Celtics are getting better, isn't that something to be positive about? It's just sad to see so many people complaining after they win five in a row against mostly good teams.


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## lastlaugh (Oct 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>mrsister</b>!
> What's wrong with people? The Celtics just won their 5th game in a row, averaging over 100 points in each. Who cares if it was against Cleveland... it was on the second of back-to-backs on the road - also the 5th game in seven nights. People can't take a moment from *****ing about whether or not Pierce is the reason they won or the reason they almost lost to see that the team is really coming together. Say whatever you want about Pierce but don't tell me they're not winning as a team. Once again, five players were in double figures. Cavs only had three. They had 22 assists and only 10 turnovers. They shot over 47 percent as a team. If there was any one thing that was the reason they almost lost, it was rebounding. The Cavs had as many offensive rebounds as the Celtics did defensive rebounds. That's why it was even that close, not because Pierce hogged the ball. If anyone was shooting 12 of 25 from the floor and got to the line 18 times, I'd give him the ball, too, no matter what his name was. If something's working, keep doing it until it stops working. Nobody told LeBron to stop shooting the ball.
> 
> People act as if it's some horrible thing that the star on the team is taking so many shots. There are five players who average more points than Pierce in the league, and four of them have attempted more shots. Only Peja has not, but he's played fewer games and is shooting over 50 percent from the floor. Stars shoot the ball. It's no newsflash. People are saying Baron Davis should start for the All-Star team. He's shooting under 40 percent from the field and has taken more shots than anyone in the league, yet he's praised.
> ...


See but you are thinking team. Others are thinking only Pierce. Which is why they didn't show up till the team started winning.

Then there is the opposite aspect of that where they stayed here, threatened to leave because Pierce was being called out (saying this is a team game and not one player wins a game) only to change their mind when we are winning. Then it is Pierce's is the reason we are winning posts.

It is hypocritical.


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## kcchiefs-fan (Oct 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>lastlaugh</b>!
> 
> 
> I am sticking up for Antoine (Pierce's obsessed fans like to call him Toine as some kind of put down) because this trade was stupid. When people like the truth makes up lies about things that have not happened I have every right to call him on his lies.
> ...


This is far and away one of the weakest posts I've read by anyone on basketballboards.net. Apparently I've hit a nerve with you.

Of course you don't sit out when Toine's (how is this a putdown on Walker, you're counterpart even calls him that. Christ you're paranoid) playing poorly, because very few people around here actually give a damn about him anymore. But all you contribute to this board is negative, beyond irrational analysis on Pierce. I don't POST on this board regularly because I don't feel the need to, as well as because I don't have the ability to watch every game, thus cannot give any thoughtful opinions on play.

Unless you're ThereisnoIinteam, than I don't believe I've ever even gotten into an argument with you. For someone who I don't remember getting into many discussions with in the past, you seem to know a lot about my grammar and motives......you wouldn't happen to be a stalker would you?

Where did I call you a name?

As for your three common sense guidelines:

Contrary to what you believe, I'm fairly well educated about the game of basketball and have been a fan of it for many a year, long before Pierce was a Celtic or a Jayhawk. I have no confusion over the definition of TEAM.

I happen to believe Tim Duncan is the best basketball player in the world.

MJ and Shaq never won their respective teams a championship on my own, and I'm also not going to try and pass Pierce off as a more valuable player than either of those two.

And lastly, where have I put Walker down to prop Pierce up. I've commened Walker on his vocal leadership skills, and the only thing I've ever called him out on is his shot selection and %'s. What I find funny is you do this countless times with Pierce in order to feel better about all the big, bad Pierce fanboys who say mean things about Toine, yet you consider yourself a model Celtic fan.


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>mrsister</b>!
> 
> People act as if it's some horrible thing that the star on the team is taking so many shots. There are five players who average more points than Pierce in the league, and four of them have attempted more shots. Only Peja has not, but he's played fewer games and is shooting over 50 percent from the floor. Stars shoot the ball. It's no newsflash. People are saying Baron Davis should start for the All-Star team. He's shooting under 40 percent from the field and has taken more shots than anyone in the league, yet he's praised.


Bingo.


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## lastlaugh (Oct 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>kcchiefs-fan</b>!
> 
> 
> This is far and away one of the weakest posts I've read by anyone on basketballboards.net. Apparently I've hit a nerve with you.
> ...


When did I call myself a model Celtics fan.lol

I know enough about you from reading your posts. Just because I didn't feel like being attacked by you for disagreeing with you doesn't mean I didn't take notice to what you have said and done in the past.

I am finally fed up to the point where I won't sit here while the Pierce obsessed set comes here and gives him and only him the credit for this team winning because up till 4 games ago Pierce was the problem. That is a fact.

You are the one who came after me (by your own admission) because I don't think as highly of Paul Pierce as you do. Then you start with your insults and expect me to sit here and take it.

You came after me because I happen to point out the truth about what Paul Pierce is really all about and that is himself. 

You just didn't have the guts to attack me when he was losing this team games.


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## agoo (Jun 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>mrsister</b>!
> What's wrong with people? The Celtics just won their 5th game in a row, averaging over 100 points in each. Who cares if it was against Cleveland... it was on the second of back-to-backs on the road - also the 5th game in seven nights. People can't take a moment from *****ing about whether or not Pierce is the reason they won or the reason they almost lost to see that the team is really coming together. Say whatever you want about Pierce but don't tell me they're not winning as a team. Once again, five players were in double figures. Cavs only had three. They had 22 assists and only 10 turnovers. They shot over 47 percent as a team. If there was any one thing that was the reason they almost lost, it was rebounding. The Cavs had as many offensive rebounds as the Celtics did defensive rebounds. That's why it was even that close, not because Pierce hogged the ball. If anyone was shooting 12 of 25 from the floor and got to the line 18 times, I'd give him the ball, too, no matter what his name was. If something's working, keep doing it until it stops working. Nobody told LeBron to stop shooting the ball.
> 
> People act as if it's some horrible thing that the star on the team is taking so many shots. There are five players who average more points than Pierce in the league, and four of them have attempted more shots. Only Peja has not, but he's played fewer games and is shooting over 50 percent from the floor. Stars shoot the ball. It's no newsflash. People are saying Baron Davis should start for the All-Star team. He's shooting under 40 percent from the field and has taken more shots than anyone in the league, yet he's praised.
> ...


This, ladies and gentlemen, is the best post in this thread, other than mine of course. As far as this thread is concerned, this is the Michael Jordan, Wilt Chamberlin, and Bill Russell of posts. The silly bickering about Paul's game, meanwhile, is Sundovian, Geert Hamminkian, Dwayne Schintziusian (and I'm not talking Dwyane Schintzius, star of the movie Eddie, I'm talking Dwyane Schintzius who once was being guarded in the post by Terrell Brandon and shot a fadeway jumper).

The Celtics are a team. Its not one guy, its not two guys. Its five, six, seven, ELEVEN guys. Only 11 because Waltah is still active. Eleven guys played in this game in green uniforms, and those eleven were victorious. We're not the Boston Paul Pierces. We're the Boston Celtics. Its never been about one guy and its not about one guy right now either. SO STOP IT.


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## kcchiefs-fan (Oct 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>lastlaugh</b>!
> 
> 
> When did I call myself a model Celtics fan.lol
> ...


You must have really low self-esteem to consider my treatment of you in this thread "attacking".

There are also numerous posters (you say you're not ThereisnoIinteam, well, he's basically the same poster as you. You could've left your duties with him if it was that important) that have given Pierce much criticism (that I haven't argued) for lack of adjusting and hustle, turnovers, etc. Just because a couple posters may be all about Pierce doesn't mean the board is overrun by them. 

I'm not coming after you for anything, and if I was it wouldn't be about your opinion that Pierce is about himself. You're under the assumption that Pierce is a ballhog when in actuality anybody with his offensive talent should be shooting the ball as many times as he does. What I'm mainly coming after you for is the levels you stoop to in order to make Pierce look bad. 

I didn't have the "guts" to attack you in the first 18 games because I've given my opinion numerous times with a mirror-image of you, and because, as said before, I'm not able to watch all the games and cannot refute Pierce's poor play. But when Pierce has a terrific two game stretch (which you, by your own admission, think was a mediocre two night stretch, despite 74 points, 20 rebounds, and 9 assists being involved), you immediately up the ante and criticize Pierce even more. You're hypocrisy is what annoys me more than anything. You registered when Toine gets traded and the only thing you've ever posted is attacks on Pierce and praises on Toine. Not everybody that commends Pierce for a good game places him on a pedestal and kicks Toine any chance they get, some just don't have blinders on. Maybe you should try taking yours off.


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## lastlaugh (Oct 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>kcchiefs-fan</b>!
> 
> 
> You must have really low self-esteem to consider my treatment of you in this thread "attacking".
> ...



I have only negative things to say about Pierce because everything I have said is true. I am posting my opinion. Ask anyone here who cost us the games till a week ago and they will agree.
I will not let Pierce off for his bad behavior. Pierce obsessed fans seem to never give him the blame and that isn't fair.

I have posted numerous times that trading Pierce isn't the answer but because I refuse to fawn all over him I get called a basher.

You continue to try and make your little digs in every post you direct at me and then call me the names.

Antoine never should have been traded and I am bitter that he was traded. I would be this bitter if Danny Ainge had treated any player who left town the way he has treated Antoine including Paul.
Antoine has nothing to do with Paul. You won't find a post where I blamed Paul for anything not directly having to do with his actions. Unlike you who took the post I made about what is wrong with Pierce's game and turned it around to insult another player. (walker)

I have been very honest with my opinions on every player with this team but you choose only to point out my opinion on Paul because that is really the problem you have with me. Not agreeing that Paul is the best. At least be man enough to admitt it.


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## agoo (Jun 1, 2003)

LISTEN UP KIDDIES. I moderate a Boston Celtics board. Paul Pierce is a player on the Celtics. He is one of 14 under contract. Let us not lose sight of that fact. I DO NOT MODERATE A PAUL PIERCE BOARD. If this thread continues down the path of this group calling that group "Paul fanataics" while that group calls this group "Paul haters," this thread will close and subsiquent threads of the variety will be closed as well. THE CELTICS ARE NOT JUST PAUL PIERCE AND WE ARE NOT JUST PAUL PIERCE FANS. ---agoo


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## kcchiefs-fan (Oct 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>lastlaugh</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


My problem with you isn't the fact that you point out the negative aspects of Paul's game, at least when they're warranted. My problem with you is you continued to criticize Pierce TONIGHT, despite his great performance. What finally motivated me to actually post is you retorting to someone else that Pierce was SUPPOSED to dominante in this game (and also insinuating that he didn't have a good game, in another thread), as well as how you're consistently saying this is a TEAM, yet you said Pierce let the Cavs cut the lead to 10 and continue to voice you're opinion that Pierce is the sole reason the Celtics have lost over half their games. 

I don't think Paul Pierce is the best player in this league, I don't even think he's top 5. But you seem to think he should be run out of the league. I'd like to hear just where WOULD you place the kid? Is he any good at all IYO?

Walker probably shouldn't have been traded but who knows what would've happened with him, he may have walked for nothing. He's not worth the money he was asking and the team wasn't a contender with him. But you refuse to let the situation go and relish whenever the Celtics do poorly so you can say to yourself, "If Toine was still here, they would've won today". And you're the one that quickly calls everybody Pierce fanatics, why take offense when you're called a Toine fanatic?

Once again, as long as you're contructively criticizing Pierce, I have no problem with that. In Big John's Trade Pierce thread, I had only one reply, and that was FAR from a bash. I haven't gotten on anyone's case about Pierce. I just found it irritating that you criticized him so heavily when he deserved it, and yes, he did deserve a good deal of it, but then continue to try and manipulate the situation to criticize him even when he's playing well and the team wins, like tonight. You don't even have to give credit where credit is due, just don't formulate insane reasons as to why Pierce still sucks when he puts up the kind of performance he did tonight.


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## agoo (Jun 1, 2003)

And that's a wrap. Ladies and gentlemen, when I post in green, its important. Please pay attention to it. ---agoo


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