# Bet you we want Harris now!!!



## Resume (Jul 17, 2007)

After the Gasol trade to Lakers?!??! We HAVE to get better. The Harris trade makes us better.

Oh, and by the way. Has ANYONE heard ANY trade rumors recently about Gasol to the Lakers?
Makes you wonder why there were no rumors and this trade happened. 
Then there are a million rumors about us. Bet it wont come true.

DAMN THE LAKERS!!!!!! I am worried.


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## andalusian (Jun 29, 2006)

First of all, there is no need to be worried. The Lakers got better this year and next - but Portland is built for the long run. No need to panic.

In the long run, expect Kobe to start showing the mileage, Pau is a nice complementary piece but not the thing that can put you over the top and Bynum, while on track to be a very good center - does not have Oden's potential.

I think the Lakers have about 2 more years of really high potential - but even with Pau I still do not see them going over the Spurs in a 7 game series.

Since we are not going to win it all this year anyway, there is no need to have a knee-jerk reaction.

The Harris deal, if it does not include Outlaw, however, is still interesting.


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## crowTrobot (Jun 24, 2005)

not as much as the mavs probably want kidd now


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## Samuel (Jan 1, 2003)

Uh oh.


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## PorterIn2004 (Jan 1, 2003)

Meh. I'm still interested in Harris but I think Andalusian's got it right -- the Blazers are building for two to three years out and beyond while this is a "win now" move for the Lakers. Sure there _might_ be a year or two when the core of the Blazers squad meets the core of the current Lakers team in the Western Conference Finals (due mostly to the Blazers being ahead of schedule) but it's fine.

That said, Harris might be really valuable vs. the Jazz and _they're_ the team I most expect to see the Blazers running up against over the next decade or so.


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## B_&_B (Feb 19, 2004)

I think Harris is over-rated.


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## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

B_&_B said:


> I think Harris is over-rated.


I think Harris is being extremely underrated by most everyone in this forum. He instantly would become our best defensive player. He would be an outstanding compliment for Roy. He is light years better than any PG on our roster or any of our overseas prospects. Harris and Roy would make up one of the best back courts in the league.


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## mook (Dec 31, 2002)

Kobe's in his 11th season. Jordan made it through 15 seasons, but he also had three years of college wear and tear, while Kobe had none. and Kobe's first two NBA seasons he only averaged 20 mpg.

I think it's probably reasonable to speculate that Kobe produces at or near his current level for another three or four seasons. 

Gasol is only in his 6th season. 

Bynum is in his 2nd. 

The Lakers never have a problem getting veterans to prostitute themselves for a championship ring, so the bench will take care of itself. 

I don't see the problem of the Lakers going away any time soon.


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## andalusian (Jun 29, 2006)

mook said:


> Kobe's in his 11th season. Jordan made it through 15 seasons, but he also had three years of college wear and tear, while Kobe had none. and Kobe's first two NBA seasons he only averaged 20 mpg.
> 
> I think it's probably reasonable to speculate that Kobe produces at or near his current level for another three or four seasons.
> 
> ...


I do. And it all has to do with the coach. They extended Jackson for 2 more years. I do not see him coming back after that, he seems to be ready for retirement. 

As for the Jordan/Kobe comparison - Jordan had a couple of years riding the bus to baseball games to rest in the middle there.


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## taterz (Sep 14, 2007)

Harris would be great, but not at the expense of Outlaw or Webster. I disagree that we have to get better now to keep up with the Lakers, this year is a bonus we are building for 2-3 years. Im quite happy to play out this season with what we have and see where the chips fall. But if we end up with Harris for a good price then take it. 

Also you didnt hear about the laker trade because it was for real, usually we hear trade rumors after they are already dead.


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## hasoos (Jan 3, 2003)

mediocre man said:


> I think Harris is being extremely underrated by most everyone in this forum. He instantly would become our best defensive player. He would be an outstanding compliment for Roy. He is light years better than any PG on our roster or any of our overseas prospects. Harris and Roy would make up one of the best back courts in the league.


I agree. Is it time to go home from work and drink beer yet?:biggrin:


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## hasoos (Jan 3, 2003)

Actually I am completely mystified why Memphis would make this trade, ever. That is a truly horrible deal, and are you going to tell me you could not have got more out of say, the Bulls? At least they would have offered one player worth a damn.


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## Talkhard (May 13, 2003)

This nonsense has got to stop. Listen up, folks. We went on a 13-game tear through the NBA WITHOUT Greg Oden. Imagine how good we're going to be when Oden gets a few NBA games under his belt. Oden is going to take care of a lot of problems and there's no reason to trade away half of our roster just to get Devin Harris. Let's stick with our young core (that gets along great, by the way) and simply add Oden to the mix next year. That's the best recipe for building this team into a championship contender.


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## Oldmangrouch (Feb 11, 2003)

mook said:


> I don't see the problem of the Lakers going away any time soon.


Agreed.

Too many people are hung up on the notion that Oden and Rudy are going to solve all our problems, negotiate world peace, balance the national budget, and cure leprosy. 

The big win streak was fun - but it is time to stop bouncing our reality checks. This is *not* an elite team.

On the flip side, there is no reason to make a panic move. The team needs to make moves over the next 18 months or so - but they don't have to make a deal TODAY. Harris would be a nice addition.....but not if we have to bend over and grab our ankles to make it happen.


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## sa1177 (Feb 18, 2005)

Talkhard said:


> This nonsense has got to stop. Listen up, folks. We went on a 13-game tear through the NBA WITHOUT Greg Oden. Imagine how good we're going to be when Oden gets a few NBA games under his belt. Oden is going to take care of a lot of problems and there's no reason to trade away half of our roster just to get Devin Harris. Let's stick with our young core (that gets along great, by the way) and simply add Oden to the mix next year. That's the best recipe for building this team into a championship contender.


You do realize Devon Harris is also very young and the he is a major upgrade over any PG we have. If we can get him for players who are not integral pieces of our "core" then we should do it. Webster, Frye, Jack and even Sergio are simply not part of that core. I'll listen to the argument that Webster is borderline but the others can esaily be replaced IMO.


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## Talkhard (May 13, 2003)

Oldmangrouch said:


> Too many people are hung up on the notion that Oden and Rudy are going to solve all our problems, negotiate world peace, balance the national budget, and cure leprosy.
> 
> The big win streak was fun - but it is time to stop bouncing our reality checks. This is *not* an elite team.


With Oden, this IS an elite team. Only a couple of weeks ago everybody was saying we were stacked with talent and had the deepest bench in the league, and our "white unit" could beat some other team's starters, etc., etc., etc. Everybody was ga-ga over all the talent around here and was practically giddy with joy over our future, and now, suddenly, everybody is despondent and says we HAVE to get Devin Harris or we're sunk.

Give me a break.


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## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

Devin Harris isn't going anywhere.


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## ProudBFan (Apr 29, 2003)

Resume said:


> After the Gasol trade to Lakers?!??! We HAVE to get better. The Harris trade makes us better.
> 
> (snip)
> 
> DAMN THE LAKERS!!!!!! I am worried.


Sorry, but I just don't understand this line of thinking at all. Why do we care whether the Lakers make the playoffs THIS year? And have we gotten SO used to the idea of the Blazers making the playoffs THIS year that anything that threatens that prospect actually scares us?

Before the season started, we were all excited. Then Oden got injured and had surgery, and we were all deflated. Then the Blazers started out 5-12 and we were already looking forward to the prospect of another lotto pick. Then the Blazers kicked some *** and we (some reluctantly) started thinking playoffs.

Point is, why is it so hard for so many here (sometimes myself included) to keep an even keel about things?

I'll take you up on your bet, Resume. How much?

PBF


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## ProudBFan (Apr 29, 2003)

Talkhard said:


> and now, suddenly, everybody is despondent and says we HAVE to get Devin Harris or we're sunk.


Not everybody. Just the short-sighted youngsters.

PBF


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## crandc (Sep 15, 2004)

Oldmangrouch said:


> Agreed.
> 
> Too many people are hung up on the notion that Oden and Rudy are going to solve all our problems, negotiate world peace, balance the national budget, and cure leprosy.
> 
> ...


There already is a cure for leprosy. But maybe Oden and Rudy can cure fibromyalgia. 

This is not YET an elite team. It's not just the addition of two players, at least one of whom is expected to be stellar. We saw how much Roy improved after one year. Do you think he has peaked yet? Has Aldridge? Outlaw? Webster? Even Frye? Sergio?

And you are totally correct, no panic move is needed. If Harris was not a good deal yesterday it is not a good deal today. Why is everyone so sure all is rosy in LaLa Land? Kobe Bryant does not like to have another star. Gasol needs the ball in his hands and it won't be. He is not a great defender. He's a scorer but the Lakers have a scorer. He does not give them much size or banging inside, which they need. He's surely better than what they gave up, which was nothing, but Pau Gasol is not Moshe and the Lakers are not on their way to the Promised Land.


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## deanwoof (Mar 10, 2003)

I honestly do not care for Harris on this team, nor do I really want the Blazers to make the playoffs this year. We'd get an extra month or so of rest for our players to come back stronger next year with Oden. 

We've stockpiled a bunch of young'ns that would fetch FUTURE 1st round draft picks easily when we need to thin down the roster.

Jarret Jack and Taurean Green to a team like Miami, Atlanta and Cleveland sorely lacking a PG would get a 1st round draft pick 3 years down the road and we could package the other team's pick plus our late 1st rounder and move to the middle of each draft. 

Channing Frye to a veteran team like San Antonio, Detroit, Dallas and Phoenix needing an extra boost for this year's playoffs would get us a future 1st as well. 

I'm not too worried about what Pritchard will do with this roster.


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## chris_in_pdx (Jul 11, 2004)

Resume said:


> After the Gasol trade to Lakers?!??! We HAVE to get better. The Harris trade makes us better.
> 
> Oh, and by the way. Has ANYONE heard ANY trade rumors recently about Gasol to the Lakers?
> Makes you wonder why there were no rumors and this trade happened.
> ...


To hell with this year. If all you are worried about is this year, you have lost sight of the big picture and you need to get your head examined. If the Lakers want to shoot their wad to make Kobe happy with a couple of title runs in the next 2 years that will fail, good for them. The Blazers have a long term plan, and the Lakers are irrelevent to it. In Oden's 2nd year, Roy and LaMarcus' 4th, the Blazers will destroy the Lakers and all other NBA teams to begin a dynasty the likes of which haven't been seen outside of Chicago or Boston. Seeing the forest through the trees. Don't take your eyes off the ball.


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## craigehlo (Feb 24, 2005)

I think the Lakers trade would push the Mavs to deal Harris in a Kidd trade. It doesn't change our timeline, but KP will always be looking to upgrade the roster when possible. Harris is a big time upgrade. 

The Lakers move really shows that there are deals out there if you can find a team looking to dump salary.


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## MrJayremmie (Dec 29, 2007)

This is a good trade for the lakers. Bryant, Bynum, and Gasol will me one of the top 5 trio's in the league, maybe top 3. Phoenix, Boston, and maybe LA. In 2 years, portland will have the best trio in the nba. no need to worry.

This does make me happy though, hopefullyl dallas now WILL make the trade, and maybe take less in return for Harris, just to get kidd.

Imagine trading Jack, Sergio, Frye, 1st round pick for Bass and Harris? sexy... lets see what happens though. I would love Harris because his defense, ability to fast break, getting people involved, good shooter, drive and kick, take pressure off Roy, and compliment Roy perfectly.


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## mook (Dec 31, 2002)

andalusian said:


> I do. And it all has to do with the coach. They extended Jackson for 2 more years. I do not see him coming back after that, he seems to be ready for retirement.


Do you really think it'll be that hard to find an elite-level coach for that team if Jackson were to retire? Who know which coaches will be available at that time, but I can easily imagine a guy like Larry Brown drooling at the opportunity to run that squad. 



> As for the Jordan/Kobe comparison - Jordan had a couple of years riding the bus to baseball games to rest in the middle there.


ok. Clyde Drexler went 15 seasons, plus 3 seasons of college. he slipped more than Jordan did toward the end, though. 

Dr. J went 15 seasons, plus 2 seasons of college. he also slipped some toward the end.

maybe Kobe has 2 more prime seasons where he's the best or second best basketball player on the planet. after that, though, I think he'll still be a top 10 player for a few more years. by then, Bynum should be coming into his own. that's 4-5 years of dominant play. 

I like the Blazers more 3-4 years from now, but in the next couple of seasons I think we're going to be a notch below them. I'd love to be proven wrong, though.


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## Xericx (Oct 29, 2004)

crandc said:


> There already is a cure for leprosy. But maybe Oden and Rudy can cure fibromyalgia.
> 
> This is not YET an elite team. It's not just the addition of two players, at least one of whom is expected to be stellar. We saw how much Roy improved after one year. Do you think he has peaked yet? Has Aldridge? Outlaw? Webster? Even Frye? Sergio?
> 
> And you are totally correct, no panic move is needed. If Harris was not a good deal yesterday it is not a good deal today. Why is everyone so sure all is rosy in LaLa Land? Kobe Bryant does not like to have another star. Gasol needs the ball in his hands and it won't be. He is not a great defender. He's a scorer but the Lakers have a scorer. He does not give them much size or banging inside, which they need. He's surely better than what they gave up, which was nothing, but Pau Gasol is not Moshe and the Lakers are not on their way to the Promised Land.


The thing is the Lakers gave up a player that was very detrimental to the team while he was on the court. Gasol is a contributing player who is very versatile, can score and can run. When Bynum returns, this is going to be a very loaded squad.

Its not a panic for us now this year because we are going to compete....but trying to lock down on defense Kobe, Gasol and Bynum with Lamar Odom...you cannot double team anyone...there are too many offensive threats out there. Add the fact that Bynum is going to get bigger and stronger, and they have a very solid future.....this core is not old...not even close..they are young and they have a pretty good bench to boot. Defensively, Kobe and Bynum are good...lamar is ok...they'll force a lot of turnovers..they are a very big team and still very fast.


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## Xericx (Oct 29, 2004)

the thing with the Lakers is that with their current squad, I think they have a 5-6 year championship window open right now. I imagine that the blazers window will probably open in 2 seasons...meaning that they are going to be a primary rival of ours for 4 years or so. 

We need to absolutely load up, be agressive and be good. None of this "I'll just trust and wait" or "They'll develop fine". Push push push.


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## MrJayremmie (Dec 29, 2007)

yea, i think Utah and New Orleans will be there also.

For the next 10 years, the top teams in the NBA will be Lakers, Portland, Utah, New Orleans, in that order, imo. All in the west, yipee....

Oden's domination will make us contend though, and right when all of them will be gettin' older, in about 7 years, we will still be peaking. 

Are the Lakers the favorite in the west now?


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## andalusian (Jun 29, 2006)

mook said:


> Do you really think it'll be that hard to find an elite-level coach for that team if Jackson were to retire? Who know which coaches will be available at that time, but I can easily imagine a guy like Larry Brown drooling at the opportunity to run that squad.


Please. It would be a miracle for a new coach to come in and immediately do wonders with them, especially for a team that runs the triangle the way they do. It would be an entire new system - and this in general does not help. It is going to take at least 1 season to get everything working well for them. At least.



mook said:


> ok. Clyde Drexler went 15 seasons, plus 3 seasons of college. he slipped more than Jordan did toward the end, though.


And had one of the best centers ever in his prime at the end of his career. I am not ready to buy Bynum ever being as good as Hakeem at his prime, definitely not when he is 22/23



mook said:


> Dr. J went 15 seasons, plus 2 seasons of college. he also slipped some toward the end.


And the only time he won anything was next to Moses at his prime. Again, not going to happen with Kobe and Bynum.



mook said:


> maybe Kobe has 2 more prime seasons where he's the best or second best basketball player on the planet. after that, though, I think he'll still be a top 10 player for a few more years. by then, Bynum should be coming into his own. that's 4-5 years of dominant play.


I am buying this. They have 2 years of title contention in my opinion, followed by an extra 3 years of 2nd round playoffs exit, imho. Bynum will be good - but he is not going to be the best or 2nd best center in the league.



mook said:


> I like the Blazers more 3-4 years from now, but in the next couple of seasons I think we're going to be a notch below them. I'd love to be proven wrong, though.


Isn't it exactly what I said? With this move the Lakers have 2 years to win a title. I am still not seeing them doing it. And yes, they will be better than the Blazers this year and possibly next year (depending on the shape Bynum gets back from injury and the entire Bynum/Pau chemistry thing).


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## Utherhimo (Feb 20, 2005)

i give them 3 years one year more than boston


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## mook (Dec 31, 2002)

I disagree that their championship window is only 2 seasons. in three years they'll likely have 3 top-20 players between Kobe, Pau and Bynum. not much different from Boston right now. 

and that's assuming I'm right and Kobe's pinnacle ends after two more seasons. he's the fiercest competitor in the league, and there's not a lot of data to show what the career life expectancy of a high schooler superstar guard is. he could prove me wrong. 

I learned a long time ago not to bet against Kobe Bryant. I didn't think he and Shaq could beat us in that 2000 WCF fourth quarter. I didn't think he'd be so good without Shaq. I didn't think he'd escape a rape conviction. I didn't think his Laker team would ever recover from the Shaq trade. I didn't think he'd make half the game winning shots he's made over his career. 

I'm predicting he's got two dominant seasons left, but I'm not making that prediction with much confidence. Kobe Bryant has a habit of doing whatever he damned well pleases, no matter what I expect.


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## GrandpaBlaze (Jul 11, 2004)

I view this trade as notably extending the life-expectancy of Kobe. With the emergence of Bynum and a better supporting cast this year, the Lakers have been a darn good team and Kobe, while still Kobe, hasn't had to carry the load so much as in the past and has also come to rely more on his teammates; he has matured.

Add another very talented guy to their team along with Kobe's skill and increased maturity and I think the Lakers are a very good team for quite some time. It is a great move by the Lakers both for now and for the next several years.

Props to the Lakers for getting such an advantageous deal done.

Gramps...


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## andalusian (Jun 29, 2006)

mook said:


> I disagree that their championship window is only 2 seasons. in three years they'll likely have 3 top-20 players between Kobe, Pau and Bynum. not much different from Boston right now.
> 
> and that's assuming I'm right and Kobe's pinnacle ends after two more seasons. he's the fiercest competitor in the league, and there's not a lot of data to show what the career life expectancy of a high schooler superstar guard is. he could prove me wrong.
> 
> ...


I think they will have 2 top 20 guys in Andrew and Kobe. I am not buying Pau a top 20 player in the league. He is not even the top 5 power forward now.

In 2-3 years: 

KG / TD / Dirk / Al-Jeff / Aldridge / Horford / Boozer will all be better than him, just at the PF position.

Will they still be competitive? Yes. Will they be a true contender? I will be surprised. Very much so.


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## Draco (Jun 28, 2003)

WOW what a steal for the Lakers. I expect them to be the favorites for the west the next 5 years. Kobe isn't even 30 guys, he'll start to lose some athleticism, kind of how Jordan did in his 30's, but with those others two (and don't forget Odom as your 4th option) that team is going to be a force.


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## craigehlo (Feb 24, 2005)

Draco said:


> WOW what a steal for the Lakers. I expect them to be the favorites for the west the next 5 years.


Favorites for the West? No way. Pau is a good PF but has really fallen off the last couple of years. The Suns, Hornets, Mavs and Spurs still seem in a much better position in my opinion. 

Still a great trade, but it's not like they got Amare or Duncan-type impact player. They got a notoriously soft PF with barley any post season experience.


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## Resume (Jul 17, 2007)

craigehlo said:


> I think the Lakers trade would push the Mavs to deal Harris in a Kidd trade. It doesn't change our timeline, but KP will always be looking to upgrade the roster when possible. Harris is a big time upgrade.


Agreed 100% - Harris is a MAJOR upgrade. And Blake wont mind coming off the bench. He will still play hard. There are more reason WHY to do this trade then WHY NOT?!!!!



chris_in_pdx said:


> To hell with this year. If all you are worried about is this year, you have lost sight of the big picture and you need to get your head examined.


How bout NOT to hell with this year?!?!? We are VERY close to a good playoff run!!! The big picture will not go away if we trade a couple role players for a franchise PG.



Xericx said:


> We need to absolutely load up, be agressive and be good. None of this "I'll just trust and wait" or "They'll develop fine". Push push push.


EXACTLY!!!



ProudBFan said:


> Oden got injured and had surgery, and we were all deflated. Then the Blazers started out 5-12 and we were already looking forward to the prospect of another lotto pick. Then the Blazers kicked some *** and we (some reluctantly) started thinking playoffs.
> 
> Point is, why is it so hard for so many here (sometimes myself included) to keep an even keel about things?
> PBF


But why not try to get to the playoffs and make a run IF WE CAN right now? Why wait till Oden comes to try and play good? Trade 3 role players and a mediocre starter for an elite PG and a defensive role player that we really need? Do that, and we can make a good run to the playoffs. WHY WAIT?!


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## Resume (Jul 17, 2007)

craigehlo said:


> Favorites for the West? No way. Pau is a good PF but has really fallen off the last couple of years. The Suns, Hornets, Mavs and Spurs still seem in a much better position in my opinion.


Sometimes being traded (especially to a team with Kobe Bryant) will light a spark under his ars. He might come out of his shell. He isn't that old either.


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## craigehlo (Feb 24, 2005)

Resume said:


> Sometimes being traded (especially to a team with Kobe Bryant) will light a spark under his ars. He might come out of his shell. He isn't that old either.


That's one possibility. The other is that he fades like Odom and kills their salary cap for the next 4 seasons.


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## Resume (Jul 17, 2007)

^^^ Very true!


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## ehizzy3 (Jun 12, 2006)

i can see him fading..i would almost do anything to see the lakers fans pissy after another first round exit after this trade..kobe would prolly cry a river again too


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## ROYisR.O.Y. (Apr 1, 2007)

back to the point of the thread

just watching a dallas game from earlier in the season
harris is amazing
lightning fast
dont look at his assist #s he sets people up perfectly but they either hold the ball or miss a wide open shot
great distributer but can def play without the ball


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## MrJayremmie (Dec 29, 2007)

If we can get harris without giving up Outlaw, Roy, Oden, Aldridge, Pryzbilla, Fernandez, Blake then i'm game.

Jack, LaFrentz, Miles, Green, McRoberts, Kaponen, Freeland are all ok to give up for me.

Frye, Sergio, Webster are on the edge. I'd want to give up Sergio first, Frye second if we get Bass, Webster third in the worst case scenerio. 

But Harris is much better than any of those players and will be (he is only 24) for a while. Harris is an all-star caliber player and the final piece we need. Webster is only a year younger than Harris i believe.


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## Perfection (May 10, 2004)

The scary idea is if they parlay Odom into a trade for Kidd somehow, though I'm sure it won't happen. Regardless, a core of Kobe/Gasol/Odom/Bynum with good young PG Farmar, veteran PG Fisher, and a role player in Walton, and that's a key to success. Lakers are legit contenders now. Boston vs. LA this year?


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## craigehlo (Feb 24, 2005)

ROYisR.O.Y. said:


> harris is amazing
> lightning fast


He's faster than any other PG I can think of except for Tony Parker. I think people undervalue him on this board because he's not a household name and fans here have real attachment to Blazer players. If we could make a Harris trade, he'd instantly be a new fan favorite with his talent and heady play.


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## Resume (Jul 17, 2007)

We need to get Harris. This trade needs to go down.


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## Oldmangrouch (Feb 11, 2003)

Keep in mind that Harris is only 1 1/2 years older than Roy. Trading for Harris would *not* be a stop-gap move. This would be a long-term move, not a move to push for the play-offs this season.


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## Resume (Jul 17, 2007)

Oldmangrouch said:


> Keep in mind that Harris is only 1 1/2 years older than Roy. Trading for Harris would *not* be a stop-gap move. *This would be a long-term move, not a move to push for the play-offs this season.*


Or it could be BOTH! Why not? I think if we added Harris to the lineup, we could easily at least MAKE the playoffs!!! Then if we get a good streak going again, we could go DEEP in the playoffs!!!

Hell, we could make it to the Finals and suit up Greg


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## craigehlo (Feb 24, 2005)

When we are stuck shooting 35% percent, we really could use a player like Harris immensely. The offense wouldn't stagnate when Roy goes to the bench and he could get to the hole easily when Roy is doubled.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

Harris reminds me a lot of Tony Parker. Lightning quick, great finisher, good catch-and-shoot guy, not a brilliant passer. And Harris is better defender, though isn't as good a perimeter shooter.

I think Harris would be a great addition to the core. I'd give up Outlaw to get him, but getting him for Webster, Rodriguez, Jack and Frye would be a move I'd make without question. Especially if we were also getting Bass back.


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## Samuel (Jan 1, 2003)

I think the forum is starting to turn on that Harris deal.

Assuming a trade of Rodriguez, Webster, Frye, Jack, and an '08 pick for Harris, Bass and Fazekas, here are my 'now' and 'future' ratings. 

*Harris / Blake / Green*
Now Rating: 8
Future Rating: 9

*Roy / Fernandez*
Now: 8.5
Future: 9.5

*Outlaw / Jones*
Now: 7.5
Future: 8.5

*Aldridge / Bass / McRoberts*
Now: 7
Future: 8.5

*Oden / Przybilla /Fazekas*
Now: 8.5
Future: 10?

*Starting Lineup:*
Now: 9
Future: 9.5

*Bench: *
Now: 7.5
Future: 8

----

*Blake / Jack / Sergio / Green*
Now: 7
Future: 7.5

*Roy / Fernandez*
Now: 8.5
Future: 9.5

*Webster / Jones*
Now: 6.5
Future: 8

*Aldridge / Outlaw / Frye / McRoberts*
Now: 8
Future: 9

*Oden / Przybilla / LaFrentz*
Now: 8.5
Future: 10

*Starting Lineup: *
Now: 8
Future: 8.5

*Bench:*
Now: 8.5
Future: 9

------

So I think we'd be sacrificing some of our bench, but from the long run point of view, I think we'd still be coming out on top of a 'stand pat' scenario if we did this move. And since KP's task of assembling a starting lineup for the future would be virtually done (maybe find a more complimentary SF), he could really go to town finding cheap heady vets to play in that second unit. 

I'm sold. Pull the trigger KP. This deal sacrifices a lot, but really sets us up for the future.


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## Xericx (Oct 29, 2004)

We can afford to wait until Dallas and NJ get more desparate. 

NJ has to move Kidd. He demanded a trade. 

Dallas has to get Kidd. With the Lakers getting that much better they have to get way better. 


I think by waiting the price for us go down as the return gets higher.


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## Xericx (Oct 29, 2004)

please correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Harris a kind of similar player to Roy? I haven't seen a lot of him play...but he is fast sure...but wouldn't it be redundant? 

I still really want Richard Jefferson here. He would be sweet on this team....that's who I wanted in the summer for ZBO...but if there's a way now, we have to do it. who knows...maybe harris would be ok...but with Blake, Roy and Sergio next year....what is the rotation at the 1 and 2 like?


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## mook (Dec 31, 2002)

Resume said:


> Sometimes being traded (especially to a team with Kobe Bryant) will light a spark under his ars. He might come out of his shell. He isn't that old either.


i think you're probably right. i haven't watched many Memphis games (why would anyone?) but he is just a year and a half removed from having a dominating summer on a gold World Championship team.


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## mook (Dec 31, 2002)

Xericx said:


> please correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Harris a kind of similar player to Roy? I haven't seen a lot of him play...but he is fast sure...but wouldn't it be redundant?
> 
> I still really want Richard Jefferson here. He would be sweet on this team....that's who I wanted in the summer for ZBO...but if there's a way now, we have to do it. who knows...maybe harris would be ok...but with Blake, Roy and Sergio next year....what is the rotation at the 1 and 2 like?


Harris is completely different from Roy. he's an opportunistic scorer who relies heavily on the fact that there are maybe three or four players in the entire league who are as fast as him. he sprints more in one game than Roy probably does in three. 

he doesn't strike me as a great "set up" point guard--more of a scoring point guard. I hesitate to use the term "shoot first", though, because that implies he's a volume shooter. his high for field goal attempts this year is just 16. plus, volume shooting point guards are typically low percentage shooters, and Harris shoots nearly 50%. 

he's like Jack in that he'll occasionally surprise you with a smart pass, but like Jack that isn't his game really. Jack is more of a bruising point guard, though, and isn't a fraction as good on the break. 

the plan with Harris seems obvious: he'll use his speed to bring the ball up the court so that Roy doesn't have to worry about traps. if there's no quick scoring opportunity, he'll give it to Roy to play half court PG, and operate more as a slashing SG. the plan only works, IMO, if you have a SF who can hit a 20 footer, though, because Harris doesn't have the shooting range to create lots of space. 

it's a pretty good plan, really. Roy isn't great at exploiting the fast break, Harris is. Harris isn't great at setting up and creating for people in the half court. Roy is. 

playing against that tandem is a little like trying to guard a left handed player. it'll seem natural to them, but will be a big adjustment to everybody else.


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## SheedSoNasty (Dec 31, 2002)

I want this team kept in tact. If we could land Harris by losing Jack, then maybe.

Even then, I like Jack's personality and ability to help us down the stretch when we're not scoring. I realize that Devin Harris is a good basketball player, but I think we'll be a GREAT team once our final piece is in place... Oden.


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## gatorpops (Dec 17, 2004)

When is the trade deadline again?

gatorpops


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## ROYisR.O.Y. (Apr 1, 2007)

gatorpops said:


> When is the trade deadline again?
> 
> gatorpops


feb 21 i think about a week after harris comes back from injury


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## MrJayremmie (Dec 29, 2007)

Harris is WAY better than Jack, and sergio. You guys have to think, THERE IS NO WAY WE WILL KEEP THE PLAYERS WE HAVE MORE THAN 2 MORE YEARS. it just won't happen, they will walk. They will either want starter money, or starter minutes, and we can't give it to them.

you'd rather have them walk and get nothin' in return? that is rediculous. Harris is a much better guy (attitude wise) than jack. Jack is mad he isn't starting and still hasn't embraced his backup role. Sergio gives us hardly anything, and Martell won't be starting longer with Outlaw and Jones, and fernandez is pretty much an upgrade of Martell next year.

We need some roster moves, we can't have a 12 man rotation next year, we need to cut it down to 8-10 man, no way in hell we can keep the roster we have next year.

Blake | Jack | Sergio
Roy | Fernandez | Webster | Jack
Webster | Outlaw | Jones
Aldridge | Frye | Outlaw
Oden | Pryzbilla

IR: Miles, LaFrentz, Green, McRoberts, Kaponen, Freeland. 
Picks: 1st Round | 3 2nd round picks

you are tellin' me you want a 13 man rotation for next year not counting our 4 or 5 draft picks? how about miles, la frentz, green, mcroberts, kaponen, freeland? or you just want to let them go for nothing? we have an abundance of 1s and 2s and if we could trade 3 of them for one PG that is head and shoulders above the rest, and is 24 years old, and the perfect compliment for our team because he would be our best perimeter defender, and get us easy transition points which we need if we want any shot at making the playoffs.

Like most everyone on here said, it is a no brainer.


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## Sonny-Canzano (Oct 20, 2007)

So I take it that the talks are completely dead....


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## MrJayremmie (Dec 29, 2007)

^ i doubt it, i think dallas wants to make the move now more than ever with the lakers aquisition.


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## wastro (Dec 19, 2004)

Dallas might want to make a deal, but that doesn't mean Portland's on board.


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## MrJayremmie (Dec 29, 2007)

^ yea probably not, PG is one of the positions we need though. And we got only like 8 fast break points in our last 3 games total, lol. And a lock down perimeter defender, along with a good PG would be nice, since we have 4 different ppl playing the PG position per game.

I know that if we don't trade jack, when his contract is up, he will walk. Same with Sergio. Webster will want starter money and starter minutes, and i don't think we will give it to him, specially with outlaw developing like he is.

I think KP should listen to offers the more desperate Dallas gets, the less we have to give up. Maybe we can get LaFrentz or Miles contracts off our team, that would be great. But unless a really good deal comes up, i agree, i wouldn't want to mess up the team.

I think 3 young players is too much, but if they would do Sergio, Jack and LaFrentz/Miles and a pick for harris that would be tight. i guess we will see where talks go.


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## wastro (Dec 19, 2004)

First, a lock-down defender, cutting point guard ... of course that would be nice. Doesn't mean that we can give up three inconsistent contributors for a star-in-waiting like Harris.

Second, you don't know for sure that Jarrett will walk. Same with Sergio. Same with Martell. I mean, WOW! Where are you coming up with all this baseless conjecture?

Third, you won't get rid of Miles or Raef. No way. It won't happen. I can't emphasize that enough. He has a history of bad attitude. He's never lived up to his potential. He's coming off microfracture surgery. His weight has fluctuated a ton. He's not ready to come back. I mean, he's way too expensive for any team to "take a chance on him." Won't happen. And Raef's salary is insane this year, but it's a good expiring deal next year.


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## NewAgeBaller (Jan 8, 2007)

Oldmangrouch said:


> Agreed.
> 
> Too many people are hung up on the notion that Oden and Rudy are going to solve all our problems, negotiate world peace, balance the national budget, and cure leprosy.


WTF when I said this about a thousand people jumped on me for being arrogant and not watching Oden or Fernandez play..

I agree with you, this team is good but in reality it is not an elite team and you can't just assume _"oh we got some good players coming (potential) and we showed what we can do with the 13-game win streak (potential) and our young core should improve (potential)"_.

If you just leave everything to potential factors of improvement like that, theres a good chance you become the Bulls, or at best the Suns (a team that was afraid to make big moves, simply getting "close" year after year).

While I don't think you should panic, it's ridiculous how some of you are dismissing the trade rumours/ideas/proposals put up here. Any trade rumour goes up and its immediately _"Forget it, why are you panicking? This is the same team that went 17-of-18! Plus we got a beast in Oden and a great palyer in Rudy, we don't need to make moves."_


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## MrJayremmie (Dec 29, 2007)

?... are you like bi-polar or something?



wastro said:


> Doesn't mean that we can give up three inconsistent contributors for a star-in-waiting like Harris.





MrJayremmie said:


> I think 3 young players is too much


and wow, of course we won't be able to get rid of Miles and LaFrentz, i said it would be tight if they got desperate enough to do that. Christ...


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## wastro (Dec 19, 2004)

I just misread, that's all.

But my other points still stand. Where do you get off saying all those other guys will walk?


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## MrJayremmie (Dec 29, 2007)

^ oh, i was listening to a radio show and they said Webster is starting this year, so when he resigns he will be expecting a starter paycheck, which sounds reasonable to think, but i just don't see it with Fernandez (even though he hasn't proved anything) and Outlaw becoming a stud. 

And i know for a fact Jack hasn't really appreciated being benched this year after starting last year. Do you think that he would re-sign as a backup? seems to me he could probably start on a few teams in the league.


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## wastro (Dec 19, 2004)

Not to be rude, but there is a whole world of difference between what you initially said and what you just posted. You initially said that, you knew, if we don't trade Jack, Sergio and Webster, they will walk.

Webster's qualify offer is for about $5 million in 2009-2010. Unless he makes The Leap in the next year-and-a-half, it doesn't matter what kind of money he wants -- he won't get it.

And Jack's been just fine with his role. He hasn't complained, he's played capably off the bench, he's been an instrumental part of the white unit. He's one of the biggest cheerleaders for other players and for the white unit. He's a floor general out there, reading defenses, encouraging guys and being a leader. I don't buy the "he's unhappy on the bench" argument for one second. But the team has options with Jack. They can afford to be patient with him this year (and maybe next).

As for Sergio ... no. He still has two years after this season on his contract, followed by his qualifying offer. It's too early to start worrying about that.


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## MrJayremmie (Dec 29, 2007)

You don't think webster will ask for starter money once his contract is up though?

and yea, i love jack also, i just see him as a backup and so for this team, and it doesn't seem at all like he wants to spend his career as a backup, from what i heard how he took to being benched this year.


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## wastro (Dec 19, 2004)

I don't know what Webster will ask for! If he's playing like a deserving starter, then he'll get deserving start money from someone (Portland). But right now, in my opinion, if you take Webster and stack him up against all the starting small forwards in the league, I would say he's in the bottom third of the league. And I say this as a huge fan of Webster.

So, in a couple of years, if his improvement is marginal, he can ask for starter money, but odds are, someone will either overpay, or he'll take less money than what's being offered. And if he's playing like a starter and worthy of that contract, then I hope Portland gives it to him. It's a no-lose situation for Portland.

As for Jack, he might not have initially been excited about the bench, but ... and don't take this the wrong way ... but did you read any of that paragraph? I pointed out all the areas where he's been a great teammate and not at all upset about being a part of the white unit.


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## MrJayremmie (Dec 29, 2007)

> I pointed out all the areas where he's been a great teammate and not at all upset about being a part of the white unit.


no dude, i did. I was just talkin' about the fact that when his deal expires, wonderin' if you think he would want to come back and play as a backup, or try and find somewhere he could start, that is all.

Anyway, i'm a huge webster fan also, i cringed when i heard the deal was rumored to be involving webster, better than outlaw i guess, but Webster's upside and potential are really high. I guess i'm just worried that some players will walk because there won't be enough minutes to go around when we have to cut our roster from a 13 man rotation, to a 8-10 man rotation, which is why i was in favor of the trade, because we need to start thinkin' about how many players we will have. With Miles, LaFrentz, Green, McRoberts, Kapnonen, Freeland and like 4 draft picks this year, idk what will happen.



> and don't take this the wrong way


you don't gotta say that dude. It's cool. I like ya.


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## wastro (Dec 19, 2004)

I hear you, man ... you do bring up some good points. Here are a few more to think about.

First, players want to play for winners. If Portland becomes a Western Conference powerhouse in the next five years, Martell might take fewer years or fewer dollars to play for us, instead of a rebuilding team back East. Now, replace "Martell" with "Jarrett" or "Sergio" or any other guy with a contract that's up in the next few years. 

Plus, the guys already here are in prime position to play with the potentially legendary trio of Roy/Aldridge/Oden. You won't find a lot of better opportunities elsewhere. Look at how the Spurs sign a lot of good vets on the cheap. Portland has a chance to be in the same position in the next few years.

Then when you worry about players coming over from Europe, etc ... I know we're all excited, but the truth is, a lot of them don't pan out. Dave at Blazers Edge actually wrote a good post about this. Don't think about Kaponen or Freeland anytime soon. A lot of late first round and second round picks never work out. I know Pritchard is high on them, but you know ... that's his job.  

And don't sweat Green or McRoberts -- if they deserve a contract from Portland, they'll get one. And don't even think about Miles and LaFrentz -- they're done as contributors on this team.

Right now, our team is littered with guys who have potential. It's a sexy and sometimes misleading term. But if you trust KP to do the right thing, everything will work itself out for the Blazers. We're in good hands.


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## MrJayremmie (Dec 29, 2007)

great post, and i agree about the playing for a winner thing. I hope they would wanna make that sacrifice.

Off to bed man, talk to you later.


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## MARIS61 (Apr 28, 2003)

Harris is a mediocre PG who looks good because he's in a perfect situation for himself.

In no way would he fit with our players, deserve PT ahead of the ones we have playing now, or help this team win games.

If we actually got involved in this trade it would be because Harris was replaced with a PF or a C, which is where we're getting killed at.


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## ProfitByProphet (Jan 31, 2008)

MARIS61 said:


> Harris is a mediocre PG who looks good because he's in a perfect situation for himself.
> 
> In no way would he fit with our players, deserve PT ahead of the ones we have playing now, or help this team win games.
> 
> If we actually got involved in this trade it would be because Harris was replaced with a PF or a C, which is where we're getting killed at.


Thank you for your absolutely clueless post. Everything you said is exactly the opposite of the truth.


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## RedHot&Rolling (Jun 26, 2004)

Delusional statements!!



MARIS61 said:


> Harris is a mediocre PG who looks good because he's in a perfect situation for himself.
> 
> In no way would he fit with our players, deserve PT ahead of the ones we have playing now, or help this team win games.
> 
> If we actually got involved in this trade it would be because Harris was replaced with a PF or a C, which is where we're getting killed at.


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## NewAgeBaller (Jan 8, 2007)

MARIS61 said:


> Harris is a mediocre PG who looks good because he's in a perfect situation for himself.
> 
> In no way would he fit with our players, deserve PT ahead of the ones we have playing now, or help this team win games.
> 
> If we actually got involved in this trade it would be because Harris was replaced with a PF or a C, which is where we're getting killed at.


You've never even watched Harris play..

Mediocre? Wouldn't fit with the team and help you win games? Doesn't deserve playing time ahead of Jack/Blake/Serio? :lol:


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## drexlersdad (Jun 3, 2006)

SheedSoNasty said:


> I want this team kept in tact. *If we could land Harris by losing Jack, then maybe.*
> Even then, I like Jack's personality and ability to help us down the stretch when we're not scoring. I realize that Devin Harris is a good basketball player, but I think we'll be a GREAT team once our final piece is in place... Oden.



I feel you on keeping the team intact, but a maybe on Harris for Jack? I would absolutely add our #1 to that. and frye.

I really like webster/outlaw/sergio though, that would be tough.

It's a hard decision to me, considering how well Outlaw has done this year, and Webster is farther along than Outlaw was in his 3rd year BY FAR.



MARIS61 said:


> Harris is a mediocre PG who looks good because he's in a perfect situation for himself.
> 
> In no way would he fit with our players,* deserve PT ahead of the ones we have playing now*, or help this team win games.
> 
> If we actually got involved in this trade it would be because Harris was replaced with a PF or a C, which is where we're getting killed at.


borderline lunacy. i would crack up laughing if i heard someone say something like that with a straight face.


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