# why you guys hating on Francis?



## GM3 (May 5, 2005)

Why are you guys hating on steve francis, everytime i come here you guys are talking about trading him? i have a friend whose a magic fan and he says Francis is good and cluth, so why you guys wanna trade him?


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

Grandmazter3 said:


> Why are you guys hating on steve francis, everytime i come here you guys are talking about trading him? i have a friend whose a magic fan and he says Francis is good and cluth, so why you guys wanna trade him?



Casual fans probably view Francis in high regard because he puts up great numbers and sometimes pulls off some amazing moves and dunks.

Overall, the way he plays now and has been playing, no team with him as the leader will ever be a title contender. He has some serious attitude problems, he lets his emotions get the best of him, he makes some terrible decisions with the ball, he tends to over-dribble *way* too much, and for a PG/SG he is not a very good outside shooter. Besides all that, he is great. :biggrin:


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## MacDanny 6 (Jun 7, 2002)

some people in here are still all over T-Mac's you know what even though he doesn't give a crap about this team and says things like "look where I'm at, and look at where they are"


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

Franco 5 said:


> some people in here are still all over T-Mac's you know what even though he doesn't give a crap about this team and says things like "look where I'm at, and look at where they are"



What does someone's views on Tmac have to do with anything? Is there anything I stated in the above post that can be disputed?

How about a guy who plays like crap for his team because he is too busy whining his best friend got traded?


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## MacDanny 6 (Jun 7, 2002)

Francis didn't play like crap and he only complained about Mobley right after the trade, and so did Dwight Howard and Deshawn Stevenson, and basically every fan of the Magic. Francis does over dribble but then he pulls up for a jumper and hits it or passes to Cato for the alley-oop. How does he play like crap, he hit so many game winners and the reason he complains to the refs is because he is showing EMOTION and doesn't just say "ah, who cares" when he sees a bad call go against his team.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

Franco 5 said:


> Francis didn't play like crap and he only complained about Mobley right after the trade, and so did Dwight Howard and Deshawn Stevenson, and basically every fan of the Magic. Francis does over dribble but then he pulls up for a jumper and hits it or passes to Cato for the alley-oop. How does he play like crap, he hit so many game winners and the reason he complains to the refs is because he is showing EMOTION and doesn't just say "ah, who cares" when he sees a bad call go against his team.



It was more than just right after the Mobley trade. The effects lasted a long time and Francis never really did play the same after the trade. He took it way too personally.

Sure sometimes he over dribbles and pulls up and hits the jumper. Other times he misses and it happens quite often when there are other guys wide open or higher percentage shots to be had. 

He hit what, 5 games winners? That is great. Not a lot of guys do that, but if he played a better overall game all of last season it would have amounted to more wins than the 5 game winners he provided. What about his propensity, especially early in the season, to not show up against some of the worst teams in the league?

The techs and the arguing with the refs don't bother me. Francis' greatest strength is his emotion and it is also his greatest weakness. I'd prefer to have a guy who doesn't rely so heavily on his emotions. 

Others have said it and I believe it .. Orlando will never be a title contender with Francis running the show.


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## MacDanny 6 (Jun 7, 2002)

So are you saying if Dwight Howard turns out to be one of the best power fowards in the game, the Magic won't be a title contender just because they have Steve Francis as their point guard?


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

Franco 5 said:


> So are you saying if Dwight Howard turns out to be one of the best power fowards in the game, the Magic won't be a title contender just because they have Steve Francis as their point guard?


You can't seriously compete for a title with a point guard like Steve Francis, or for that matter Stephon Marbury, Gilbert Arenas, etc. I've said it before and I'll say it again -- None of those guys will win championships in their careers as starters unless they seriously adjust their playing style.

You need a point guard who runs the offense and plays within the flow of the game, which is certainly not what any of those guys do. The offense is eventually going to be running through Dwight Howard, and holding the ball/overdribbling or any of Steve's other crap will kill the flow of the offense. The prototype for a successful franchise is a dominant big man, a solid second scoring option on the perimeter from your SG or SF ,a PG who knows his role on the team, runs the offense and can hit open shots, solid defenders all around, and good role players who what they're supposed to. Couple that with a good coach and good team chemistry, you're on your way to winning a title. There are exceptions, but they're few and far between (Pistons last year). Show me where Steve Francis fits into the equation? 

It's obvious the Magic have their big man with Howard to build around. Jameer Nelson is looking exactly like the kind of guy I'd want to lead my team if I'm building for a championship -- Hits open shots, runs the offense smoothly, hustles and plays hard all the time. The Magic look to have something here. If they use Francis as well as their other tradeable assets (Christie, Cato) wisely and also draft intelligently, there's no doubt in my mind they could be a championship quality team in 4-5 years when Howard starts to hit his prime.


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## MacDanny 6 (Jun 7, 2002)

hobojoe said:


> there's no doubt in my mind they could be a championship quality team in 4-5 years when Howard starts to hit his prime.


And don't forget that will also be the time Howard becomes a free-agent, and we all know what happens to the Magic when their stars become free-agents


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

Franco 5 said:


> And don't forget that will also be the time Howard becomes a free-agent, and we all know what happens to the Magic when their stars become free-agents


Which is why we need to get rid of Francis and surround Howard with a cast that can go all the way, so he has a reason to stay.


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## MacDanny 6 (Jun 7, 2002)

OK if the Magic were to trade Francis, what do you think teams would be willing to give? If the Magic dont get a star in return this is going to be a crappy team because Dwight and Jameer aren't developed enough yet to be the top options on a team and win.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

Franco 5 said:


> OK if the Magic were to trade Francis, what do you think teams would be willing to give? If the Magic dont get a star in return this is going to be a crappy team because Dwight and Jameer aren't developed enough yet to be the top options on a team and win.


Well, I personally think the Magic are in for one more season below .500 before the rebuilding starts to show promise, and things go up hill. I hope the Magic move Francis, and get young talent and/or draft picks. Again, we're basically just getting talent and young role players to put around Dwight for when we start making title runs year in and year out. 

Of course all of this sounds optimistic(because it is), but it's the ideal plan for the Magic. It's assuming we're able to resign Dwight, Jameer and other important players that'll come along the way. It's assuming our young players all pan out like we hope. It's assuming we have a good, solidified, defensive-minded coach in place who can also deal with the egos of young, talented players. It's assuming the Magic don't revert to their old ways of drafting duds year after year. It's assuming a lot of things -- but it's the best plan we have.


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## Yao Mania (Aug 4, 2003)

Oh how can there possibly be a Francis hate-thread without me? :biggrin:

Francis has the natural basketball skills of an NBA all-star and the (basketball) intelligence of a 14 year old. He's just one of those people that doesn't get the big picture.


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## X-Factor (Aug 24, 2004)

Franco 5 said:


> OK if the Magic were to trade Francis, what do you think teams would be willing to give? If the Magic dont get a star in return this is going to be a crappy team because Dwight and Jameer aren't developed enough yet to be the top options on a team and win.


Another thing about that is tyhat Francis' trade value isn't going up any time soon. He's going to continue to put up the numbers he did towards the end of this season and his bad attitude towards the team will only get worse. Trade him while he has a semi-high trade value.


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## Misfit (May 4, 2005)

Francis

for

J.R Smith & Jamal Magloire

done deal :biggrin:


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## magicfan187 (Jun 28, 2003)

Misfit said:


> Francis
> 
> for
> 
> ...


how about francis and cato for them two? :biggrin: 

magloire i would love to get...two real bigs down there would be awesome...and i would just through in cato for the heck of it


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

Misfit said:


> Francis
> 
> for
> 
> ...



yeah, I wish. I'd do that deal yesterday.


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## Misfit (May 4, 2005)

Actually if I where the GM of the Magic I'd do the deal for JR and anything else I could get, Francis is an all-star player but to me he just doesn't seem right for this team.Nelson is a natural born leader and JR will turn into a 20 ppg player.

So then it's settled. :cheers:


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