# Vince Might Be On A New Team



## HB (May 1, 2004)

come October when training camp starts again. The hiring of Babcock over Dr J, is quite evident that the raps organization isnt caving into his demands. The golden question now is what team will be interested in picking up Vince


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## Junkyard Dog13 (Aug 9, 2003)

Good question if we we send him packing we gotta get a proven player that hasthe ability to pack the arena guys like:
Allan Iverson
Paul Pierce

someone like
Brand
Richardson
D.Anderson

would need 2-1 for the clips deal

EX
La Clips send
Richardson
Brand 
future 1st rnd pick
for
Carter
Murray

Blazers
Davis
Anderson
for
Carter
Murray

starting lineup
Clips deal
PG Harris
SG Richardson
SM Rose
PF Bosh
C Brand

Blazer deal
PG Harris
SG Anderson
SM Rose
PF Bosh
C Davis


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## Dathomieyouhate (Jun 21, 2003)

vince isn't going no where you guys do not know what you're talking about this thread is non sense. he just wants to win. he never said they had to make dr j the gm. he said it didn't matter what gm was in place. get your facts straight.


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## MrTasty (Jul 5, 2003)

There is no way in the world I would trade Carter for Iverson. The attitude, injuries, and the fact that he's over the hill now anyways make that just ridiculous.

Pierce on the other hand is definately interesting, however I really don't think Vince is going anywhere just yet.


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## AdamIllman (May 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Dathomieyouhate</b>!
> vince isn't going no where you guys do not know what you're talking about this thread is non sense. he just wants to win. he never said they had to make dr j the gm. he said it didn't matter what gm was in place. get your facts straight.


so does the raptors organization...and in my humble opinion the raptors would make themselves contenders sooner by trading vince for some young talent and picks.


I'd like the clipper deal that was proposed if we didnt already have a great power forward. However i cant see the clippers doing it.


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## AdamIllman (May 12, 2003)

what do u guys think of vince to the hawks for 6, 17 and diaw? I'd probably do it...that gives us Bosh, 6, 8, 17 and diaw to build around...that could be a VERY good young nucleus and i think the hawks would do it. We might even be able to get more out of it than that. Salaries don't have to match as atlanta is well under the cap.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

The signing of this GM could either make or break the raps, if he trades Vince and the team loses he will be known as the GM who wrecked the team, if this team wins with or without Vince he will be known as the savior, the next couple of months will be very interesting


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## spuriousjones (Apr 24, 2004)

babcock's actually in a pretty good position. it'll be almost impossible to not improve upon our last 2 years. that will give him the comfort to take risks if he sees a need to take them

i get a feeling that part of the GM interview was swearing on a bible they won't trade Carter

but it could happen. i would wager that every team in the league would want vince carter

the Clippers are mentioned above, they have the ability to take in more salary then they send out. Wilcox, 2 and a comming first? 2 can become 6 and 17 while unloading another salary. that would give babs a new core of bosh/wilcox/6/8/17 

the better scenario is keeping Carter. its hard to do anything to our roster aside from adding mle guys and draftees but our core guys, Carter/Bosh/Yell/Rose are good players


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## madman (Oct 20, 2003)

how about we start worring about a coach before we worry about who will be on the team next year


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## Junkyard Dog13 (Aug 9, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>AdamIllman</b>!
> what do u guys think of vince to the hawks for 6, 17 and diaw? I'd probably do it...that gives us Bosh, 6, 8, 17 and diaw to build around...that could be a VERY good young nucleus and i think the hawks would do it. We might even be able to get more out of it than that. Salaries don't have to match as atlanta is well under the cap.




love it

6 PG Gordon UConn Starts
8 C Biedriens Lativa Back up to FA future starter
17 trade down get extra 2nd pick

17th for 22 and 52

22 SG Snyder Nevada comes off bench 

40 SG Delonte West St Joes comes off benchadds solid depth at G
52 PG Antonio Burks Memphis gives you a capable back up PG, so long Palacio



re-sign Mo Pete sign (Blount/Thomas/Foyle to play C to start short term until Biedrins is fully ready, would like it whenhe is at least 250 LBS.

Line up

starting
PG Gordon
SG Diaw
SM Rose
PF Bosh
C Thomas/Foyle/Blount

Full rostor
PG Gordon/Williams/Burks
SG Diaw/Snyder/West/MasonJR
SM Rose/Peterson/Marshell
PF Bosh/Marshell/
C [Foyle/Thomas/Blount]/Biedrins

traded
Murray in Carter deal
Released
Palacio

Inactive
Moiso
West

that gives you good depth especislly at G since Williams knees are almost done.

10 man rotation
Bosh
Rose
Gordon
Diaw
Fa C
Biedrins
Marshell
Snyder
Peterson
Williams


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

But its not the coach thats going to chose who is on his team, he choses who plays on the court, but the GM selects who is on the team.


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## madman (Oct 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hbwoy</b>!
> But its not the coach thats going to chose who is on his team, he choses who plays on the court, but the GM selects who is on the team.


ya but you have to take it one step at a time


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Dathomieyouhate</b>!
> vince isn't going no where you guys do not know what you're talking about this thread is non sense. he just wants to win.


thank you


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Junkyard Dog13</b>!
> 
> love it
> 
> ...


The team you showed would stink. You can't have that many young players on a team and expect to do better. Why would Atlanta do this deal anyway? If Vince isn't healthy for more than 60 games, than what does mortgaging their future for Vince Carter do? Fans still wouldn't come to see that. 

Horrible trade.


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## Dathomieyouhate (Jun 21, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Mr_B</b>!
> thank you


hey i try


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## AdamIllman (May 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> 
> 
> The team you showed would stink. You can't have that many young players on a team and expect to do better. Why would Atlanta do this deal anyway? If Vince isn't healthy for more than 60 games, than what does mortgaging their future for Vince Carter do? Fans still wouldn't come to see that.
> ...


LOL

Regardless of injuries Vince is still a superstar and is probably the most capable player in the league at putting butts in seats. It would renew interest in the hawks and give them something to build on.


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## AdamIllman (May 12, 2003)

and the idea isn't to improve for next year it's to improve drastically for the long run...i thought a knowledgeable poster like yourself would have realized that?


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>AdamIllman</b>!
> and the idea isn't to improve for next year it's to improve drastically for the long run...i thought a knowledgeable poster like yourself would have realized that?


Which is exactly why Atlanta will hold onto their picks. Vince Carter would not be apart of their future. That's why they would draft some guys with the potential to be great like Livingston or Josh Smith.


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## Junkyard Dog13 (Aug 9, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> 
> 
> The team you showed would stink. You can't have that many young players on a team and expect to do better. Why would Atlanta do this deal anyway? If Vince isn't healthy for more than 60 games, than what does mortgaging their future for Vince Carter do? Fans still wouldn't come to see that.
> ...


was not my proposal but it could be a good team for the future would not stink you still would have vets to help the young guys more importantly you would have a bench.

Vets
Marshell
Rose
Williams
Peterson
Diaw
FA C


key scorers
Rose
Bosh
Gordon

key bench guys
Marshell
Williams
Biedrins
Peterson

future good role players possible starters
Snyder
Burks (if Gordon is more of a A.I player more suited at SG you could have Burks play the point.)

Easily could be a 6th-8th team in the East.
With this much youth potential trades would'nt be hard to make to improve team b/c of potential leverage of young guys.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

I'd have to say you are getting ahead of yourself. Babcock focused on KG in Minny for 9 years. He may do the same with VC. We don't know yet. I hope he does ..*ahem* blowitup... but right now there are no indicators pointing in that direction.

If you want to see some analysis on potential trade partners should the wind blow that way, myself and speedy had some reasonably detailed thoughts:

http://basketballboards.net/forum/s...perpage=15&highlight=Trade Vince&pagenumber=3


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

On the other hand if Dr J does land a front office role with the raps, it could be an indication that they are not trying to trade Vince


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Junkyard Dog13</b>!
> EX
> La Clips send
> Richardson
> ...


That is just a flat-out horrible trade for the Clippers.

The Clippers wouldn't even trade Brand for Carter, let alone add in Q and a first rounder.

Something like...

Richardson and the 2nd overall pick is a more realistic trade. However, Richardson is now a FA, so it can't be done.

Maybe...

Maggette
#2

FOR

Carter
#40
Future First Round Pick


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Why in the world would the raps accept Maggette and #2 for Carter and #8, a more realistic trade would probably be Brand straight up for Carter, fillers could be added in to make it more enticing


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## Sánchez AF (Aug 10, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hbwoy</b>!
> Why in the world would the raps accept Maggette and #2 for Carter and #8, a more realistic trade would probably be Brand straight up for Carter, fillers could be added in to make it more enticing


The trade is 

Carter and *#40* for Maggette and #2 pick


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## alpngso (May 23, 2003)

Vince Carter for Corey Maggette and Melvin Ely


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## spuriousjones (Apr 24, 2004)

maggette's contract makes him nearly as valuable as vince--i don't see them doing it. his only problem is that he really can't create for others like carter can.

Carter to LAC for Wilcox+2+future makes more sense than Maggette for both teams, imo. (Carter and Alvin would be even better for Toronto but the Clipps are tight with cash)

the big question is what to do with no.2? is sending no.2 to atlanta for 6+17 (even if it means unloading contracts) a better move for a rebuilding team than taking no.2 ourselves?


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## ballocks (May 15, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Junkyard Dog13</b>!
> Good question if we we send him packing we gotta get a proven player that hasthe ability to pack the arena guys like:
> Allan Iverson
> Paul Pierce
> ...


i usually don't chirp in on trade discussions/possibilities, but the above suggestion with the trail blazers is...well... unbelievable.

are you talking about DALE davis? are you also talking about DEREK anderson? christ, man, you're putting those players in the same category as pierce, iverson, brand&richardson, etc.?

if so, i think you've been spending too much time reading the blazers' bias on these boards. in my opinion, that proposal is beyond ludicrous. 

peace


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

i think that Vince will be about as happy with our new management team as we are, if not (much) more.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Hbwoy</b>!
> Why in the world would the raps accept Maggette and #2 for Carter and #8, a more realistic trade would probably be Brand straight up for Carter, fillers could be added in to make it more enticing


He did not say 8. he said 40. That means you have 2, 8 and maggette.

And the rest of you, please stop with the star for star VC trade Bull SH. It does not make any sense.

No one seems to get why.

With VC

Alvin
VC
Jalen
Marshall
Bosh

Trading VC straight up for Paul Pierce

Alvin
Paul Pierce
Jalen
Marshall
Bosh

Trading VC straight up for AI

Alvin
AI
Jalen
Marshall
Bosh


If you don't get that there is no improvement at all in such a trade then you are hopeless.


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## Junkyard Dog13 (Aug 9, 2003)

yeah preatty bad ideas there. 
Carter for Brand might work.
Brand is big enough to play C in the East.

We could draft Iguolada/Childress then, that is if we intend to unload Vince which is a possinilitybut most not likely to happen


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Junkyard Dog13</b>!
> Good question if we we send him packing we gotta get a proven player that hasthe ability to pack the arena guys like:
> Allan Iverson
> Paul Pierce
> ...


I don't see them giving up Brand and Richardson for Carter and Lamond's heavy contract.. I'm not too excited about that Blazer deal either..


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## Junkyard Dog13 (Aug 9, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jcintosun911</b>!
> 
> 
> I don't see them giving up Brand and Richardson for Carter and Lamond's heavy contract.. I'm not too excited about that Blazer deal either..


I know it was a dreadful idea.


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## macro6 (Jul 23, 2002)

I want VC to stay, but thats just my opinion.


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## slash_010 (Dec 20, 2003)

> I want VC to stay, but thats just my opinion.


Mine too


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## Mike1155 (Apr 9, 2004)

If Vince asks to be traded because the organization didn't pick the GM he wanted then goodbye Vince.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

Vince seemed to just want to get the best guy. If it was J, good, if not, oh well. I doubt he will ask for a trade.


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## spuriousjones (Apr 24, 2004)

toronto is disadvantaged aquiring free agents:
1.border
2.tax issues
3.reputation
4.team ranking

toronto is in a salary quagmire of unjustified costs, unmoveable assets
1.jalen
2.alvin
3.murray

toronto has a limited amount of youth developing under contract
1.chris bosh

Vince is not the problem but he can be part of the solution.


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## spuriousjones (Apr 24, 2004)

elsewhere... someone inquiring about what it would take for aquiring Vince suggested Stackhouse and Kwame for Carter.

that has merrit. but, imo, it would/should require Stackhouse, Brown, and Washington's 1st round pick.

Stackhouse --if he can play-- is still a good player even with his faults. Brown shows a lot of promise and has had dominating moments but as yet, has not shown a consistent enough output to suggest he will be a dominat bigman. he and bosh do have overlap but can both defend. imo, Kwame is best at C over PF. with that opinion, he and Bosh should be able to be on the floor at the same time. there is the Juwan Howard/Drew Gooden risk, but less so in this case.

an issue with Kwame that shouldn't be overlooked is his pending free agency. teams will open their pockets for a young bigman with potential like him. the questions surrounding Toronto's ability to retain him cannot be ignored.

while Washington fans may feel Stack, Kwame and 5 is too much, if 12 months down the road, Kwame leaves, even with a fully healthy Stackhouse, without the pick, this trade is not justafiable. However, Stack, Kwame and 5 can be justafied (at lest to me) if Vince is indeed to be traded.


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

I hope Vince is gone this offseason, really. My favourite player, but it would be better for the team in the long run, and better for Vince.

I LOVE that Maggette,#2 for VC, #40 trade. I am not sure if the Clips do that, but holy **** I'd do that in a second. 

Draft Dwight Howard, and Ben Gordon.

B.Gordon
J.Rose
C.Maggette
C.Bosh/D.Marshall
D.Howard

That team is definetly better than the team we have now, with a nice young core in Gordon, Maggette, Bosh, and Howard. There are four potential all-stars, and some of them potential superstars. And for those who think a Bosh-Howard frontcourt wouldn't work, it will. Howard is already pretty ripped at 240, and will probably max out at 7'0, and gain alot more weight.

And I agree with blowinguptheraptors. What the hell is the point of trading Vince straight up for someone like Pierce, or Iverson? We'd be the exact same team basically.


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## ColinBeehler (Oct 14, 2003)

*Howard.*

dbl and triple post. sorry


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## ColinBeehler (Oct 14, 2003)

*Howard.*

SORRY.. double and triple posts. didn't realize when ya press [back] then edit ur post and then re-post. It makes another separate post.


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## ColinBeehler (Oct 14, 2003)

*Howard.*

Any worries about Howard at all. I do believe he'll be superstar quality. But definately not a C. They said in his scouting report, that he has gaurd skills. No problem right? But then, they said he tends to spend time out on the wings because of his past playing time at the gaurd spots. This worries me, in the NBA he could become a floater. Not want to bang consistently down low. In highschool obviously there wouldn't be a problem of him being scared to go down low. Because, all there is in highschool are maybe a couple 6'6" guys down low. Anyone who is his height or taller is a scrawny mofo. Usually. Where as when he get's to the NBA, there will be guys 6'9" + every single nite that are for the most part bulkier then him. Then, let's see if he wants to bang game in game out.

Just a thought.

Anyways. lata

P.S. Picking Howard at #2 is definately the only choice. I think I like doing the Maggete trade and then trading the #2 to ATL for #6 etc.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>MrTasty</b>!
> There is no way in the world I would trade Carter for Iverson. The attitude, injuries, and the fact that he's over the hill now anyways make that just ridiculous.
> 
> Pierce on the other hand is definately interesting, however I really don't think Vince is going anywhere just yet.


lol @ you dissing AI when you just described Vince Carter. And I didnt know 28 years old was over the hill. Wow


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## Mike1155 (Apr 9, 2004)

> Vince is not the problem but he can be part of the solution.


If your looking at possible upsides as a TEAM. I don't think he is a part of the RAPTORS solution. He could be for some other team. If we trade Carter. Freeing salary space,adding probably a younger player with good upside & a draft choice sounds appealing to me. It's a ballsy move but you know what? it sounds like the right move.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Seems like the media is also instigating a lot of this trade carter nonsense. Babcock says he would like to work with Carter.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Hbwoy</b>!
> Seems like the media is also instigating a lot of this trade carter nonsense. Babcock says he would like to work with Carter.


The reason the media "instigate" as you put it, is because VC's desires for a GM are different than what he has been given.

Forget the Dr J BS. Vince wanted another Isiah when clearly Babcock has his eye on the future. Vince wants to win now, Babcock does not put a priority on winning now.

Babcock is here for 4 years and his philosophy will stand. If Vince can't wait or has a disagreement in philosophy, it is Vince, not Babcock that will prompt a trade.

Added:

Babcock can't come into his introductory presser and say "Vince is on the block"

Interesting that Alex English saw essentially every game last year because the Raps were his team to scout for the sixers. He should know VC inside and out, heart, D, O, clutch etc. This guy will be key in advising Rob and will play a part in determing who is a keeper and who isn't.


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