# Marbury or Francis



## dynamiks (Aug 15, 2005)

Marbury Stats
PPG 21.7 
RPG 3.0 
APG 8.1 
SPG 1.49 
BPG .07 
FG% .462 
FT% .834 
3P% .354 

Francis Stats
PPG 21.3 
RPG 5.8 
APG 7.0 
SPG 1.44 
BPG .36 
FG% .423 
FT% .823 
3P% .299

Also who is a better team player?


----------



## USSKittyHawk (Jul 22, 2005)

Steph no question, he doesn't miss the team plane to catch the Superbowl.


----------



## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

why is this even a question?

marbury puts up better numbers(besides rebounding) and has better percentages. turnovers and minutes are two other stats i would like to see if we're going to compare these two, but marbury is clearly the better player.


----------



## The True Essence (May 26, 2003)

why do these topics exist/???


----------



## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

I put Marbury slightly higher at the point and Francis slightly higher at the 2.

I don't know why anyone says Steph is clearly better, other than because this is the NY board. These guys are more similar than different qualitatively.

If you wanted to make a club of ~20/8 players who aren't worth building around you could throw Walker and SAR in the mix. Crunch all their career numbers, it's freaky.


----------



## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

son of oakley said:


> I don't know why anyone says Steph is clearly better, other than because this is the NY board. These guys are more similar than different qualitatively.


i'm a rockets fan and i say that marbury is clearly better. he may not be better by a lot, but i think it is pretty clear who the better player is.


----------



## The True Essence (May 26, 2003)

oak, i think marbury being better is the general consensus. this was posted on the nba general board several times, and marbury always won by a wide margin.

francis is a turnover machine with terrible shooting percentages. Marbury shot 46 percent last year, an assist higher than stevie, about 10 less technical fouls, much better assist to turnover ratio.... he gets to the hoop better, hes a better jumpshooter.....

francis is a better dunker and rebounder. thats about it


----------



## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

PennyHardaway said:


> oak, i think marbury being better is the general consensus. this was posted on the nba general board several times, and marbury always won by a wide margin.


Well I'd agree that Marbury plays more conservatively and in control. That _can_ be an asset, though in Steph's case I think he's gone too far and needs to add a little zest to his repertoire.

But Francis, perhaps rightly so, has entered the low bball IQ pinnacle of hate that Walker has. They were overrated when popular opinion was high, and now they are probably underrated as their stars fall.



> francis is a turnover machine with terrible shooting percentages. Marbury shot 46 percent last year, an assist higher than stevie, about 10 less technical fouls, much better assist to turnover ratio....


I don't necessarily disagree with all of this, but... okay Marbury shot better LAST year. Last year was the best I've seen from him, he really decreased his bad 3 point attempts (leaving them for JC), but he did that in his 9th NBA season, which was Francis' 6th. It's not like Steph's shot got better, his selection did.

Also a lot of those stats will naturally favor a PG, which, A) I admitted Steph was better at, B) Steph played point all season, Francis shifted to the 2 at some point.

Lets look at their career stats:

Francis / Marbury

mpg 39.4 / 38.7
Fg% .430 /	.435
3pt% .342 / .320
Ft% .798 / .791
RPG 6.1 / 3.1
APG 6.5 / 8.3 
SPG 1.60 / 1.29 
TOs 3.77 / 3.20
PPG 19.7 / 20.6

Now those numbers are VERY close for two players. Is it fair to emphasize Francis' turnovers and not acknowledge his better 3pt%, FT%, Rebs and Steals?





> he [Steph] gets to the hoop better, hes a better jumpshooter.....
> 
> francis is a better dunker and rebounder. thats about it


I'm not sure Steph gets to the hoop better, I think he just does so more frequently do his more limited repertoire. (Not that that's bad.) Also not sure he's a better jump shooter with his lower 3pt%.

The thing about those dunks and rebounds is that Francis has better hops and younger legs, which is why I like him better as a SG. I think the miles are taking their toll on Steph and he's losing his athleticism. He's having more and more trouble covering the floor. He could hide it at the point by slow trotting the ball up and staying centered on the court. If LB moves him to the two I think by the end of the season his tired legs will be exposed. He wont be crossing the court to work off screens, going backdoor, running up-court on the break, jumping over people to rebound, penetrate, or dunk. Francis has no trouble with any of that.

Thus, while I think they've played to a relative parity throughout their career with a slight edge going to Steph's "control", I think Francis has the athleticism to play the two that Steph doesn't, and I'm not fond of either of them at the point.

Lets put it this way, as much as I think LB would like to take the ball out of Marbury's hands I think after some experimenting, to mask Steph's diminished athleticism, he'll end up trying to turn him into a Billips-like plotting decision maker with clutch. If he had Francis instead he'd go the Iverson route.


----------



## The True Essence (May 26, 2003)

career numbers mean nothing, cause career numbers make isiah thomas look crappy. 

you just gotta look at the most recent, and steph is jus way ahead of stevie at this point in time.

and some guys are great mid range shooters and crappy 3 point shooters at the same time...like Wade. Francis can make threes, but his mid range game is nowhere near stephons.


----------



## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

PennyHardaway said:


> career numbers mean nothing, cause career numbers make isiah thomas look crappy.
> 
> you just gotta look at the most recent, and steph is jus way ahead of stevie at this point in time.


Come on, Isiah's career numbers are just fine at 19.3/9.3, and they were only finer when looking at them at Steph's or Francis' age.

Anything can cause year to year fluctuations, especially changing teams and positions in the same year. 

But if you've got something to show Steph's supremacy lets see it.


----------



## NYK101 (Jun 24, 2005)

marbury is one of only two players to average 20/8 in their career, im trying to think of the only other player to get 20/8 as career numbers, oh yeah its oscar robertson, no question about it, marbury > francis, francis > marbury at dunking and boards, thats about it, not something a pg is known for is it....


----------



## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

NYK101 said:


> marbury is one of only two players to average 20/8 in their career, im trying to think of the only other player to get 20/8 as career numbers, oh yeah its oscar robertson,


Oh, hey now, well, if someone had only thrown that stat at me sooner then I'd have had to admit Steph is better than Magic, Stockton, Frazier, Isiah, West, Monroe, et al. I mean, that tells you so, right?

For what it's worth, Francis joined Oscar Robertson, Magic Johnson and Grant Hill as the only players in NBA history to average 15 points, five rebounds and five assists in each of their first five years.

Uh oh, it's a battle of hollow stats, now what are you gonna do?


----------



## Hakeem (Aug 12, 2004)

Marbury is better, but people are forgetting that Francis is a much better defender.


----------



## alphadog (Jan 2, 2004)

*Oak....*

I do so enjoy your posts. You're one of the few guys that gets it. Having the ability to OBJECTIVELY analyse and qualify stats and players is rare around here....keep it up.


----------



## ChosenFEW (Jun 23, 2005)

if i want to be entertained, I'll go with francis.....if not i'll take marbury any other day....


----------



## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: Oak....*



alphadog said:


> I do so enjoy your posts. You're one of the few guys that gets it. Having the ability to OBJECTIVELY analyse and qualify stats and players is rare around here....keep it up.


UH OH...having Alfa on your side is a bad sign :angel:


----------



## alphadog (Jan 2, 2004)

*Truth...*

Trying to teach you guys wears me down. Reading Oak's posts is like going on vacation.....I can just sit back and enjoy. Perhaps you could enlighten me on the numerous times I have been wrong? Also, no wafflin' here.....pure maple syrup or otherwise....


----------



## cpawfan (Jun 20, 2004)

*Re: Truth...*

Even though I'm not a Marbury fan, it is easy to state that he makes far less boneheaded decsions with the basketball than Francis


----------



## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: Truth...*



alphadog said:


> Trying to teach you guys wears me down. Reading Oak's posts is like going on vacation.....I can just sit back and enjoy. *Perhaps you could enlighten me on the numerous times I have been wrong*? Also, no wafflin' here.....pure maple syrup or otherwise....


surely you jest.... :angel:


----------

