# Derrick Rose vs. Chris Paul



## Knickers (Feb 3, 2011)

People at my school have been debating on who is better, Derrick Rose or Chris Paul. I think Chris Paul, so who do you think is better?


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## Ben (Nov 7, 2006)

I know you're new, and I know the question in this thread is slightly different, but just check the board first to see if the thread has been posted before you make a new one. This ones on the first page.

http://www.basketballforum.com/play...s-paul-vs-deron-williams-vs-derrick-rose.html

For the record, Chris Paul.


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## Pimped Out (May 4, 2005)

For the record, Chris Paul


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## Ben (Nov 7, 2006)

^Ban him please.


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## fai714 (Feb 8, 2011)

Has Chris Paul ever been considered an MVP Candidate like Rose is this year??


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## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

fai714 said:


> Has Chris Paul ever been considered an MVP Candidate like Rose is this year??


28 MVP votes in 2008, 2 votes in 2009.


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## CosaNostra (Sep 16, 2010)

fai714 said:


> Has Chris Paul ever been considered an MVP Candidate like Rose is this year??


Yes he has, but by that logic, 2-time MVP Steve Nash is the best PG in the NBA.


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## BlakeJesus (Feb 1, 2006)

This is a bad comparison. Paul is still obviously not 100% and it's debatable he's outperforming Rose as is. Once he gets that first step back it's over.


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## Pump Bacon (Dec 11, 2010)

Rose. CP3 just doesn't look healthy out there, even Derek Fisher gave him problems with just single-coverage. CP3 doesn't have the motivation, play the amount of minutes, or has the health to carry his team like Rose can this season.

2008-09 CP3 is better than the Rose of today though.


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## BlakeJesus (Feb 1, 2006)

That's a pretty ignorant post. For starters, you can't say he doesn't look healthy and then try to say he looks unmotivated. He's not unmotivated, he's just playing at less than 100%. He's probably playing less than 80%, honestly. As far as his minutes, he's playing 35 a game. Rose is only playing 38, we're talking three minutes of difference. It's smart to only play CP3 28 minutes when you're up 15 in the 4th, just like it's smart to play him big minutes against a worthwhile opponent (played 44 minutes against the Lakers on 2/5). It's not like he's got a Yao Ming minute cap on him, they're just not running him into the ground unless they deem it absolutely necessary.

Hornets are 32-21, Bulls are 34-16, both teams are doing pretty well for themselves. Bulls play in a weaker conference and an especially weak division (20-9 conference, 11-0 division). While the Hornets play in the same division as the Spurs, the number one team in basketball at the moment. Hornets are still 6-3 in their division.

Overall, the argument for Derrick Rose is nothing but down talking Chris Paul. And it all has holes in it.


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## Pump Bacon (Dec 11, 2010)

GregOden said:


> That's a pretty ignorant post.





GregOden said:


> Bulls also play in the East, which is a much easier division. You can say whatever you want about what you "think" is going to happen, but as of right now your predictions don't hold much weight.



FWIW last time we met I predicted that it shouldn't be a surprise that the Hornets and Jazz's records would be closer than not...looks like I'm right since they're only a game apart. Tbh your posts seem ignorant and pretty defensive.



> For starters, you can't say he doesn't look healthy and then try to say he looks unmotivated. He's not unmotivated, he's just playing at less than 100%.


Yea the unmotivated part is more about CP3 not being a happy camper with the NOH organization and who can blame him since their future is TBD. And also from comparing his body language back to his MVP worthy season.



> He's probably playing less than 80%, honestly.


Agreed, he just doesn't look the same out there. I'm glad you've realized this after your posts from the last PG comparison where you seemed to have given the impression that picking out CP3's health wasn't a legit point:



GregOden said:


> So you say he isn't the same, despite the fact he's putting up fantastic numbers and his team just won their 10th straight game?
> 
> Come on now.


----



> As far as his minutes, he's playing 35 a game. Rose is only playing 38, we're talking three minutes of difference. It's smart to only play CP3 28 minutes when you're up 15 in the 4th, just like it's smart to play him big minutes against a worthwhile opponent (played 44 minutes against the Lakers on 2/5). It's not like he's got a Yao Ming minute cap on him, they're just not running him into the ground unless they deem it absolutely necessary.


Its a combination of minutes and how aggressive CP3 is in that time. Back in his MVP-worthy season he'd shoulder the team's scoring load which he hasn't been doing as much this season but Rose has. I wouldn't be surprised if there was an unofficial cap on CP3's minutes, or at least a goal of limiting his average, since there really isn't a good reason to run him into the ground since they're obviously not contenders and the organization's future is to be determined. Plus CP3 is still obviously recovering and the organization has to keep him happy and healthy enough to stay with 'em. 



> Hornets are 32-21, Bulls are 34-16, both teams are doing pretty well for themselves. Bulls play in a weaker conference and an especially weak division (20-9 conference, 11-0 division). While the Hornets play in the same division as the Spurs, the number one team in basketball at the moment. Hornets are still 6-3 in their division.


The Bulls definitely have benefited from being in a weak division but IIRC they've also had several injuries to key players that missed out a significant amount of time. Thats when Rose's stardom gained momentum this season since he had to take over and he also showed the improvements he made in his game like 3 point shooting.



> Overall, the argument for Derrick Rose is nothing but down talking Chris Paul. And it all has holes in it.


I'd take Rose over CP3 this season, mostly because of Rose being healthier but he's made huge improvements in his game and is even figuring out how to get to the line more according to a recent ESPN article ( http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/24650/somebodys-reading-john-hollinger ).

That doesn't mean CP3 doesn't have an arguable case too but imo this season the best PG race has been one of the closest its ever been. And there's much more to basketball than just stats. FWIW from just watching CP3, Rose, and DWill play you can tell that Rose is the player thats the most motivated of the bunch this season which is understandable partly because he's younger and his organization has an attractive future.


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## SheriffKilla (Jan 1, 2004)

Chris Paul plays absolutely mistake free basketball. The best I have ever seen seen regarding that, even more so than Nash and Stockton. However that does take away from his aggressiveness. He had a similar style through out his career (since his rookie season) but in 07/08 and 08/09 (his 2 best seasons IMO) he would also take over as a scorer in the end of games. He is a bit too passive, whether its by design, because last years injuries are still in the back of his head or another reason, I dont know. Whatever it is he needs to step it up in that category because its obvious he isnt playing to his full capabilities. Sometimes its better to have a turnover and missed field goal here and there but in turn be more assertive.

Rose on the other hand seems to have no problem with going to the basket, and being aggressive as a scorer and dominating the ball. As mentioned above he has in the past gotten disrespected by the officials and avoided contact when going to the basket but it seems he has improved that aspect as of late. However he just doesnt (and most likely never will) understand the game as well as Paul. He doesnt have the basketball IQ to be able to anticipate the next moves of all 9 other players on the floor while he has the ball in his hands. Thats a rare talent that Ive only really seen from Paul, Magic and Stockton.

For that reason I give CP3 the edge. Its a relatively large edge too, I think Pauls supremacy as a basketball player is pretty much unarguable and, barring unforseeable circumstances, will remain so through out their careers. Paul is only 3 years older after all. This post was only made to compare and contrast the basic and most evident differences in the games of the 2 players and I cant realistically suggest that Rose is the better player.

EDIT: Also gotta add that while Rose has showcased much improved defense play this season (probably thanks to his new head coach) and Paul continues to gamble too much when going for steals, I would give Paul the edge in this category as well. Especially as a team defender, he has very good defensive team work with Emeka Okafor and forcing players into Okafor when they drive. Not to mention the excellent job he does disrupting perimeter ball movement with his anticipation and quickness.


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## girllovesthegame (Nov 3, 2005)

Derrick Rose, while a very good player, is more explosive and athletic than Chris Paul. That certainly does not make him a better overall player. Rose does not yet even have the BBIQ and leadership of a Chris Paul.

I mean lets' be honest here. Chris Paul has seemed to set the standard for point guards. Each and every point guard is compared to .... Chris Paul. It basically started back in the 07-08 season when just about every fan wanted their team to have a point guard like Chris Paul. I remember once after Chris Paul took over a game against the Bulls all Stacy King could talk about during the broadcast was how they hoped the Bulls would draft Derrick Rose the following season. Derrick Rose is a great player but I don't think he's surpassed Paul or Williams yet.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

What does "better" mean exactly?

When debating 2 superstars like Rose and Paul, they both have huge impacts on the games but in different ways.

Rose is undoubtedly the greater athlete and physical specimen. Many nights that makes him the more effective player, especially when he's avoiding mistakes and hitting his jumpshots.

Paul undoubtedly has the greater understanding of the game and natural court vision. His low center of gravity works to his advantage when taking care of the ball. He plays bigger than he is. Still, he is not a freak athlete, and cannot physically (usually offensively) dominate a game like Rose does.

I'd be happy to have either one to be sure.


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## mvP to the Wee (Jul 14, 2007)

Rose beat Paul in tonights head to head. I believe Rose is 7-0 when playing Paul's Hornets.


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## Ben (Nov 7, 2006)

Chris Paul had arguably the worst game of his life against the Nets, 4-15 with 7 turnovers. The two following games have been pretty awful too. Last three games he's 11-36 from the field.


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

Derrick Rose just outplayed D-Will and Chris Paul in back to back games.... seems to me he is at least on their level.


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## Pump Bacon (Dec 11, 2010)

Rose is also a top 3 MVP candidate from the ESPN and NBA rankings while CP3 hovers in the top 5-10 and DWill's nowhere to be seen, FWIW.


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## BlakeJesus (Feb 1, 2006)

If the debate is, who would you rather have between the two from here going forward, I guess it all just comes down to if you think the Chris Paul you're seeing now is the new Chris Paul. I think it's pretty obvious that he's not functioning at the true Chris Paul level, so it's making this actually debatable. The power of foresight leads me to believe that Chris Paul is still a clearly better player than Derrick Rose.


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## Juggernaut (Jul 20, 2010)

Chris Paul, hands down...But Rose is on Paul/Deron's level.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

Derrick Rose, on a nightly basis just goes out and out plays the other top flight PG's in the NBA. For the 2010-11 NBA season Derrick Roses is the best PG in the NBA individually, and has his team only 2 1/2 games out of first place in the Eastern Conference.

We should rank players based on the merit of their basketball skills/production, and impact on getting their team wins for the present time. And not rank players on reputations. 

What's also pretty incredible considering two of the three Bulls best players (Noah/Boozer) have been out a considerable chunk of the season. Also add to that fact that the only teams barely ahead of the Bulls are the loaded Heat/Celtics of the East. It's quite possible that a healthy Bulls team in the second half of the NBA season comes out of the East with the number one seed. If you're Derrick Rose, you must quote Good Will Hunting, and tell his detractors "how do you like those apples."


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## BlakeJesus (Feb 1, 2006)

I agree completely that players should be ranked based on basketball skills, production, and impact. However, disregarding the past is choosing to be ignorant. 

Look, I can repeat myself over and over again defending Paul, but the fact is he's not being as aggressive offensively because he's not completely healthy. So instead, he's picking his spots and he's playing some seriously efficient basketball. He's shooting 48% from the field, 44% from beyond the arc, 90% from the charity stripe, only 2.4 TO's a game, has a PER of 25.1, 60.9 TS%, 52.6 eFG%, and he's still averaging 2.5 steals. Derrick Rose is putting up a higher volume of shots, so his percentages aren't even close. He averages 1.5 _less_ steals per game, and averages almost a full turnover more despite getting less assists.

Rose is a dynamic scorer and a fantastic player, but Chris Paul is the best PG in the league. I consider him to easily be a Top 5 player.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

I love Rose, he's my favorite non Laker next to Dwight but I can't justify him over CP3 just yet. He's the best and most dynamic scorer at the position and has come a long way as a playmaker and a defender. But Paul is pretty much the ideal point guard. He plays within himself and is so efficient that it's not even funny, he's really and truly unbelievable.

Rose has vaulted himself to be a top ten player that's closing in on the top five however. I'm extremely pleased with his progress.


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## BlackNRed (Feb 9, 2005)

I'll break the tie, CP3. C'mon man. Of course, I'm basing my opinion off overall body of work, not one season. I think that's foolish. It's like people who say Westbrook >/= Wade now cause he's having the single best season of his career. Wade's been doin it since you were still in high school son, and still doing it better, faster, stronger, and with more heart. Same thing applies here, CP3 has been a superstar PG consistently for years. Rose is just becoming one. Could he surpass Paul? Absolutely. But until he does he's not the better player. Veterans are afforded that advantage in this league IMO.

This is why many, many people still regard Kobe as the best player in the NBA. Even though he isn't, not this year.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

Suprised to see so much love for Rose. This year has done wonders for his popularity.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

GregOden said:


> I agree completely that players should be ranked based on basketball skills, production, and impact. However, disregarding the past is choosing to be ignorant.
> 
> Look, I can repeat myself over and over again defending Paul, but the fact is he's not being as aggressive offensively because he's not completely healthy. So instead, he's picking his spots and he's playing some seriously efficient basketball. He's shooting 48% from the field, 44% from beyond the arc, 90% from the charity stripe, only 2.4 TO's a game, has a PER of 25.1, 60.9 TS%, 52.6 eFG%, and he's still averaging 2.5 steals. Derrick Rose is putting up a higher volume of shots, so his percentages aren't even close. He averages 1.5 _less_ steals per game, and averages almost a full turnover more despite getting less assists.
> 
> Rose is a dynamic scorer and a fantastic player, but Chris Paul is the best PG in the league. I consider him to easily be a Top 5 player.


Chris Paul hasn't been considered the best point guard in the NBA since the 2008-09 NBA season. That was two seasons ago, and he's not the best right now. Why should we take only two of the seasons Paul peaked at into consideration if we should be taking the past into consideration at all ? This is where things get tricky. And it's why I believe players should be ranked against one another season to season. What if Paul has peaked, nobody knows what kind of ceiling Rose has, because his progress continues to rise every year. He hasn't had down years compared to his best seasons yet. 

At this point I'm simply going to go with what Rose does when matched up against the Paul's, Williams, Nash's etc of the league. And what he does is out play them. He's leading his team to one of the best records in the league, and he's been doing it with 2 of his best players out for the majority of the season. 

You want to talk about how efficient Paul is. Well that's great, I'm not going to argue with you, I agree he's efficient. However Rose's 24.7 PPG 8.1 APG 4.4 RPG and defensive intangibles. I'll take over Paul. And let's not pretend by any stretch that Rose is inefficient basketball player. He's 84% from the free throw line, 37% from the three point line, and 45% from the field. And he's what like 3 or 4 years younger than Paul. Give me Rose in the 2010-11 season. The guy is built to have an incredible long lasting tenure in the NBA.


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

> Chris Paul hasn't been considered the best point guard in the NBA since the 2008-09 NBA season


:laugh:


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

Dissonance said:


> :laugh:


Many considered Deron Williams the best PG in the NBA in the 2009/2010 NBA season, and many consider Derrick Rose the beset PG in the 2010/2011 NBA season. 

However Laugh now, and cry later. Chris Paul just got his ass handed to him tonight by Andre Miller, Paul put up a whopping 8 points, 5 assists, and 4 turn overs against Miller and the Blazers. Paul just isn't what he use to be. At least not this season. 

http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=310216022


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## Pump Bacon (Dec 11, 2010)

23AJ said:


> Many considered Deron Williams the best PG in the NBA in the 2009/2010 NBA season, and many consider Derrick Rose the beset PG in the 2010/2011 NBA season.
> 
> However Laugh now, and cry later. Chris Paul just got his ass handed to him tonight by Andre Miller, Paul put up a whopping 8 points, 5 assists, and 4 turn overs against Miller and the Blazers. Paul just isn't what he use to be. At least not this season.
> 
> http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=310216022


Yea his last 5 games have been stinkers and are possible examples of CP3's health and motivation issues. In the past 5 games he's averaging 11.6 points on 32%FG, 7.8 assists, and 3.2 TOV. But they were mostly road games FWIW. Still I can't recall CP3 ever having these low streaks before he got injured.


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## BlakeJesus (Feb 1, 2006)

And the 5 games before that he was averaging 18.8 points on 55.6% from the field, 10.8 assists, and only 2 turnovers. I don't really see your point man.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

Derrick Rose and the Bulls just toppled the best team in the NBA record wise the Spurs, all the while Derrick Rose dropped 42 points, 8 assists, 5 rebounds, and 1 block. The Bulls are now only 2 games behind the heat/celtics for the best record in the Eastern Conference. And apparently Noah will finally be coming back after the All Star Break sometime. D Rose as good as advertised. His team already great, will only be more of a juggernaut once Noah returns.


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## Pump Bacon (Dec 11, 2010)

GregOden said:


> And the 5 games before that he was averaging 18.8 points on 55.6% from the field, 10.8 assists, and only 2 turnovers. I don't really see your point man.


That he's having a pretty down season and that his health and motivation issues are real issues. His numbers and overall impact are a far cry from his MVP worthy seasons. He hasn't been able to shoulder the scoring load for his team like he used to (and his team needs it too) and its a problem that he's not his MVP-self for 4 quarters. BTW these are all weaknesses that Rose does not have. Rose's health, game, athleticism, and motivation seem like they're are at an all-time high. FWIW here's a recent article from Kelly Dwyer who has written about CP3's issues on Yahoo recently:



> *Behind the Box Score, where we're missing Chris Paul
> *
> by Kelly Dwyer
> 
> ...


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

Paul might still be an equal or better player than Rose under "normal" conditions, but I don't know how anyone can deny that Rose has made a bigger impact on the W's column this year. We can discuss PER and TS% until the cows come home, but ultimately W's are all that matters. That is why Rose is in the MVP discussion and Paul should not be anymore.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

yodurk said:


> Paul might still be an equal or better player than Rose under "normal" conditions, but I don't know how anyone can deny that Rose has made a bigger impact on the W's column this year. We can discuss PER and TS% until the cows come home, but ultimately W's are all that matters. That is why Rose is in the MVP discussion and Paul should not be anymore.


The discussion is over for this season. Derrick Rose is the MVP of the league, has his Chicago Bulls sitting in 2nd in the East only 3 games behind the Might Boston Celtics. How do you like those apples ? The kid is on a tear right now, and plays the game the right way, he continues to sharpen his skills, and is a young player. No way is Paul better than Rose this season, and he won't be better next season. But hey will wait see what the future writes, But that would be my guess


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## Geaux Tigers (Apr 26, 2004)

Ive seen Chris Paul mail it in a few times this season. That's something I have never seen from him before. Those talks of taking 4th quarters off are very true.


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## simply_amazing (Aug 23, 2009)

There's no comparison. Rose is the bigger, stronger, more athletic player who still has a lot of untapped potential. His scoring and assists have gone up every year, his 3 point shooting has improved, and this kid absolutely loves big moments. 

Chris Paul hasn't been healthy for quite some time, as an additional demerit. 

I see Rose as a player on another level who can take it up several notches for the next few years.


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## Tooeasy (Nov 4, 2003)

simply_amazing said:


> There's no comparison. Rose is the bigger, stronger, more athletic player who still has a lot of untapped potential. His scoring and assists have gone up every year, his 3 point shooting has improved, and this kid absolutely loves big moments.
> 
> Chris Paul hasn't been healthy for quite some time, as an additional demerit.
> 
> I see Rose as a player on another level who can take it up several notches for the next few years.


If you wanna state theres no comparison between their play styles, then have at it. If you are trying to say theres no comparison between the skill at the point guard position when comparing the two, and are holding Rose up on a pedestal, then you have some issues


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## simply_amazing (Aug 23, 2009)

This reminds me of those 'people who say Jordan is better than Kobe are deluded' threads.


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## Eternal (Sep 7, 2005)

Chris Paul simply does not look healthy. I know there was an article about him not too long ago talking about how he has to change his game, after that explosive first step most likely will never be there again, with the injuries he's suffered.

It's a shame really that he may never be what he was in 08/09. Was a treat to watch.

Derrick Rose this season is clearly the better player.


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## girllovesthegame (Nov 3, 2005)

It's obvious that people haven't watched Paul in the last two games before he got injured against the Cavs. He started out the season playing well then he kind of fell off a bit, yes. But in the game against the Cavs he had a very efficient double double in the first half and he finally looked like the CP3 that we're accustomed to seeing against Memphis. He was finally happy to be out of that brace and now he's down with a concussion. But yeah, go ahead and crown Rose now.

Let me also add that Paul has though, been bothered with a sore ankle that he keeps tweaking and a sore hip for quite a while now. Everyone assumes it's his knee but his knee is fine. He would not have shed that brace if it weren't.


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## BlakeJesus (Feb 1, 2006)

simply_amazing said:


> There's no comparison. Rose is the bigger, stronger, more athletic player who still has a lot of untapped potential. His scoring and assists have gone up every year, his 3 point shooting has improved, and this kid absolutely loves big moments.
> 
> Chris Paul hasn't been healthy for quite some time, as an additional demerit.
> 
> I see Rose as a player on another level who can take it up several notches for the next few years.


I'm not going to argue with you that Rose has been better this season, because he has. That was never a point I was trying to make, but the thread is about who the better player is. I'm looking at that long term, and I think long term this is going to look really silly (unless Paul is never healthy again, which I doubt will be the case).

And honestly, yes Rose is improving in all of these things but you still have to be able to keep it all in context. He's shooting 4.4 3's a game and only hitting 32.8% of them, that's wildly average. Paul shoots a lot less three's than Rose(2.3 a game), but he's also converts on 42.3% of them. 

Paul is still far and away the better passer, even injured he's one of the best ballhawks in the league, and considering how much he handles the ball his turnover rate is phenomenal. Once he regains full health, he'll go back to being unstoppable.

Of course this is all to be seen, and nobody really knows what's going to happen one way or another.


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## Eternal (Sep 7, 2005)

Anyone else see Tim Legler's top 5 PG? Found it pretty funny he has Chris Paul at #5. His main reason seemed to be because he normally doesn't seem to have the ability to take over games at the end.

1. Derrick Rose
2. Russel Westbrook
3. Deron Williams
4. Steve Nash
5. Chris Paul


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## TwinkieTowers (Jul 16, 2002)

Eternal said:


> Anyone else see Tim Legler's top 5 PG? Found it pretty funny he has Chris Paul at #5. His main reason seemed to be because he normally doesn't seem to have the ability to take over games at the end.
> 
> 1. Derrick Rose
> 2. Russel Westbrook
> ...


That seems be a big reason why Rondo isn't even on his list. He's such a huge liability in the clutch because he can't shoot or shoot free throws.

If you want to make football analogies, Paul is like the classic pocket QB (Manning, Brady, Brees), while Rose is like Michael Vick. Right now, Paul just doesn't have the quickness to take you on the dribble. In my opinion, Rose has the vision to be like Aaron Rodgers; he just needs to work on his bounce passes, which I don't see him do too much in games.


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## Job (Feb 28, 2011)

If Paul and Rose were in their prime I would flip a coin, any team would be lucky to have either one of these great players. I would take Rose now because of Paul's health.


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## cdunham91 (Mar 24, 2011)

Wait 5 years haha. Rose is flipping 22 years old and about to still get MVP. In 5 years he'll be one of the greatest points ever. The fact that at 22 years old Rose compares to Paul and beats him is amazing!


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## jaw2929 (Dec 11, 2011)

DRose and it's really not even close IMO.


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

Based on potential, health, and athleticism, I take rose...I realize rose already, has an MVP under his belt, but I think rose is gonna be even better the next few years...


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

the thing to me is you have to be specific...is it who is the better player....or the better pg ?

as a player in general, its pretty debatable, both have their strengths, as point guards it isn't .

bottom line Rose is a great player who plays point guard, he could be just as good at 2guard, his game is not so dissimilar from d-wade....Chris paul is the best point guard on the planet and the best point guard since Magic/Thomas were running around in hot pant disguised as basketball shorts .


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

Derrick Rose was the best point guard in the world last year, play styles be damned.


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