# Dirk is the front runner in the MVP race!!



## FlyingTiger (Aug 4, 2002)

im so happy he won player of the month in feb. he could of easily won for january also (webber won.hahaha give me a break!!). but with players of the month in dec. and feb. he has to be the front runner in the MVP race. his team has a great record despite losing nash. also finley, stack, damp and other key players been hurt off and on. i think if he wins one more POTM he should be a lock.

my top 5:

Dirk everything i listed above

Nash if the suns have the best record i thing he should win 

TD Team is great, but his numbers are down

LJ If hes team had a better record he would be at the top of the list

Shaq hes playing in the East. numbers arent that great. he has Wade, who is easily a top 5 player in the East.

when its all said and done, i think TD will win his 3rd MVP.


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## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

MVP candidate? Yes, MVP front runner? Nope... My vote goes for Allen Iverson...


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

I think he's a legit front runner, especially since he has made noticeable strides with his defense this year, previously a very weak part of his game.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

My MVP vote would go to Allen Iverson as well. He has had the best season of any player in the league. If we're talking about making a team better, I'd go with Nash and then Shaq.


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## FlyingTiger (Aug 4, 2002)

Dont get me wrong AI is having a super year. but his team stinks!! cant get around that no matter what. the 76ers arent even in the playoffs right now. if i had to pick somebody from the East it would be LJ. his numbers are crazy pts, FG% RBS and Dimes. and his team record is better then AI.


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## Ps!ence_Fiction (Aug 1, 2004)

I too think Iverson deserves MVP, but I think other then Iverson, LeBron is the most deserving and will win it if his team wins 50 games


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## Pan Mengtu (Jun 18, 2004)

Steve Nash winning the MVP would just be embarrassing to the sport. Even though I like the suns, I almost hope they go on a losing streak so he doesn't have a chance.


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## socco (Jul 14, 2002)

S-Star said:


> MVP candidate? Yes, MVP front runner? Nope... My vote goes for Allen Iverson...


I'd give the slight edge to Shaq over AI, but I agree Dirk is not the front runner, and he's not gonna win it.


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## Debt Collector (Mar 13, 2003)

Pan Mengtu said:


> Steve Nash winning the MVP would just be embarrassing to the sport. Even though I like the suns, I almost hope they go on a losing streak so he doesn't have a chance.


ok, whats your reasonining behind this?


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

Has anybody ever won MVP with a team record like the 76ers have?


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## Pan Mengtu (Jun 18, 2004)

I like Allen Iverson too, but if Garnett can't win it because his team isn't good, neither should AI.


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## Greg Ostertag! (May 1, 2003)

It's stupid how we can see "Allen Iverson is having the best season of any player in the NBA... *BUT* his team sucks, so he can't win MVP." What kind of basis is that for awarding a most valuable _player_ award? Is it within the criteria that the MVP is the best player with the best teammates?

Allen Iverson has had the best season of any player in the NBA. I guess all that happens now is that it becomes offical or unofficial.


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## socco (Jul 14, 2002)

Pan Mengtu said:


> I like Allen Iverson too, but if Garnett can't win it because his team isn't good, neither should AI.


Garnett didn't win it two years ago because his team was ONLY the 4th best in the league. I still think AI will have a chance though, I think this year has been pretty weak in terms of MVP candidates.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

Greg Ostertag! said:


> It's stupid how we can see "Allen Iverson is having the best season of any player in the NBA... *BUT* his team sucks, so he can't win MVP." What kind of basis is that for awarding a most valuable _player_ award? Is it within the criteria that the MVP is the best player with the best teammates?
> 
> Allen Iverson has had the best season of any player in the NBA. I guess all that happens now is that it becomes offical or unofficial.


I'm pretty sure team success has always been a factor in MVP voting. A few years back Tmac finished 3rd in MVP voting putting up just awesome stats, but he obviously had no real shot at winning it because his team's record was only mediocre.


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## Greg Ostertag! (May 1, 2003)

JNice said:


> I'm pretty sure team success has always been a factor in MVP voting. A few years back Tmac finished 3rd in MVP voting putting up just awesome stats, but he obviously had no real shot at winning it because his team's record was only mediocre.


Ah, but was he the best performed player that season? It's quite easy to mount an argument that Allen Iverson this year... and I haven't really respected Iverson a great deal until this year.


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## darknezx (Apr 13, 2004)

I hope Iverson would win it. He's the idol that many youngsters are hoping to emulate, and his passion and heart almost wins the 76ers some games. Steve Nash though brilliant in running on the break, doesn't really have a chance because he is mostly the catalyst in the team.


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## EuroScout (Jun 4, 2003)

LMAO @ iverson MVP when the 76ers are not even in the PO, in the LEASTERN conference

the MVP 's always from the top 10 team in the league, so forget, AI and KG


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## thebac (Aug 25, 2004)

JNice said:


> Has anybody ever won MVP with a team record like the 76ers have?


Kareem got it in '76, with a team record of 40-42. Of course it helps to be 2nd in scoring and 1st in rebounds and blocked shots.

Also, the first MVP ('56), Bob Pettit. His team was 33-39, but he was 1st in scoring and rebounds.

They are the only exceptions, though. All other MVP's were on teams well over .500


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## Ps!ence_Fiction (Aug 1, 2004)

Well Iverson is 1st in scoring, 4th in steals and 5th in assists per game, not close to those other 2, but still good


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

Right now, I'm still going to go with Shaq as MVP. Dirk, Iverson, Nash, Duncan, *all* are candidates. It's still too early to start to really weed out anyone though.


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## RoyWilliams (May 25, 2003)

Id say Shaq or AI.


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## M.D.E (Feb 26, 2005)

Td


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## Lakerman33 (Oct 16, 2004)

I half to say Nash is the MVP because he means the most to his team. More than dirk is to the mavs


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

I think Duncan is the front-runner with Shaq as the next closest, assuming he plays almost all the rest of the season at near-100%.

I make Nowitzki a solid third behind those two.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

I can't believe how many people are pulling for Iverson to win the MVP, he has had a great season, but MVP is a bit over the top. Kevin Garnett has been absent from MVP talks because of his team's record, but he has had a much better season than Iverson. So if they decide to not factor team record into the equation, Garnett becomes a legit candidate way before Iverson does. 

But yes, Dirk has been overlooked this season. He is no longer one dimensional, and that one dimension he had before is still deadly as ever. If Dirk won it, I wouldn't disagree with that. I would agree with Duncan, Dirk or Shaq winning it at this point, anyone else would be a bit odd.


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## Ps!ence_Fiction (Aug 1, 2004)

Sir Patchwork said:


> I can't believe how many people are pulling for Iverson to win the MVP, he has had a great season, but MVP is a bit over the top. Kevin Garnett has been absent from MVP talks because of his team's record, but he has had a much better season than Iverson. So if they decide to not factor team record into the equation, Garnett becomes a legit candidate way before Iverson does.


I never thought I'd say this, but Iverson is having a better season then Garnett, and people believe that he should be MVP becuase he is the most valuable *player*, not the most valuable player on the best team.


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## FlyingTiger (Aug 4, 2002)

Sir Patchwork said:


> I can't believe how many people are pulling for Iverson to win the MVP, he has had a great season, but MVP is a bit over the top. Kevin Garnett has been absent from MVP talks because of his team's record, but he has had a much better season than Iverson. So if they decide to not factor team record into the equation, Garnett becomes a legit candidate way before Iverson does.
> 
> But yes, Dirk has been overlooked this season. He is no longer one dimensional, and that one dimension he had before is still deadly as ever. If Dirk won it, I wouldn't disagree with that. I would agree with Duncan, Dirk or Shaq winning it at this point, anyone else would be a bit odd.



this guy hit the spot. its not like AI hasnt scored 30 pts a season before. Tmac avg 32 pts 3 years a go. if you base the MVP just on number. you have to go with KG or LJ.


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## Rayza (Jul 21, 2004)

It is all based on the meaning of MVP. This is my distinctions:

1. MVP - Most valuable player to the team 
- This to me, must goto AI, Lebron or Nash. Spurs can win some games without Duncan, so can Dallas without Dirk, Miami without Shaq. (Havent really seen Minny without KG)

2. MVP - Statistics
- KG, Lebron, AI. Those three are definite.

3. MVP - Most valuable player on one of the top teams in the league
- Nash, Duncann, Shaq and Dirk are clear cut favourites.

I think if you combine all three, Nash is the favourite for MVP. However, I believe there are no clear cut favourites like previous year for leagues' MVP.

Out of all the MVP candidates, AI definitely has the worst team in terms of starting five. But hope now with C Webb, there record will improve dramatically and he'll be consider as one of the favourites. But if their record improves dramatically, are the league going to credit C Webb for their success, or just less pressure on AI ?


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## Greater Levitator (Dec 29, 2004)

I think Okafor is a candidate as well. Without him the Bobcats are even worse than the Hawks, with him they just beat the Kings.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

Ps!ence_Fiction said:


> I never thought I'd say this, but Iverson is having a better season then Garnett, and people believe that he should be MVP becuase he is the most valuable *player*, not the most valuable player on the best team.


How is Iverson having a better season than Garnett? Sure, he may be having a better season for their individual standards, but by that logic, Bobby Simmons is better than Kevin Garnett. 

Garnett is leading a better team and is the far superior player. Yet Garnett isn't even talked about as a top 5 candidate this year. That shows you how out of hand the Iverson for MVP talks are.


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## Greater Levitator (Dec 29, 2004)

Rayza said:


> It is all based on the meaning of MVP. This is my distinctions:
> 
> 1. MVP - Most valuable player to the team
> - This to me, must goto AI, Lebron or Nash. Spurs can win some games without Duncan, so can Dallas without Dirk, Miami without Shaq. (Havent really seen Minny without KG)


According to that logic, Emeka Okafor has to be considered for MVP, because without him his team does not win anything, but with him they at least are not the worst team.




Rayza said:


> 2. MVP - Statistics
> - KG, Lebron, AI. Those three are definite.


I think team success grants you access to the MVP race. So it has to be ranked in front of stats. Second, why don't you mention Dirk ? Name another player in the NBA, who averages 27/10 plus 1.3 steals and 1.6 blocks and then you have to consider that he shoots 45 % from the field plus 40 % from beyond the arc. On the other Hand you have Iverson on your list, who has horrific 4 Turnover per Game and shoots 42 %.



Rayza said:


> 3. MVP - Most valuable player on one of the top teams in the league
> - Nash, Duncann, Shaq and Dirk are clear cut favourites.


I think that this is the most important criteria and not the third one.



Rayza said:


> It is all based on the meaning of MVP. This is my distinctions:
> 
> 1. MVP - Most valuable player to the team
> - This to me, must goto AI, Lebron or Nash. Spurs can win some games without Duncan, so can Dallas without Dirk, Miami without Shaq. (Havent really seen Minny without KG)
> ...


Why are you so convinced that your perceiption of the priorities are right ?

Pretty arrogant.


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## Geaux Tigers (Apr 26, 2004)

Im surprised at this overwhelmingly Duncan-less thread. 

Nash is the catalyst on his team but he isnt the Leage MVP.

LeBron is a worthy candidate but it will matter how his team finishes.

Allen Iverson is also worthy but you have GOT to make the playoffs at the very least.

I dont think the award is predicated on how well your team does, thats what Championships are for. But you have to have some team success to be considered. I mean Dan Dickau is incredibly important to the Hornets and without him theyd have at least 4 or 5 more losses (in relation to their wins this is a large percentage) but he cant be in the running because the team is so bad. It doesnt matter how much you mean to your team when your team isnt experiencing success. There are plenty of other candidates whose teams will make a splash.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

Rayza said:


> 1. MVP - Most valuable player to the team
> - This to me, must goto AI, Lebron or Nash. Spurs can win some games without Duncan, so can Dallas without Dirk, Miami without Shaq. (Havent really seen Minny without KG)


This isn't logical. Iverson's team *with* Iverson isn't nearly as good as the Mavericks, Spurs, Suns or Heat, so of course if you take away the superstars, it'll stay that way. 

It's like saying the Bobcats without Emeka Okafor are worse than the Spurs without Tim Duncan, therefore Emeka Okafor is better than Tim Duncan.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

a concern in voting for iverson is that i ask myself the question - would philly have a better record with duncan or shaq? it's hard to imagine they'd be much worse. it makes it tougher to give the nod to iverson. iverson's name also, of course, brings names like kobe and garnett into the discussion as well, both of whom are pretty on par with iverson, imo.


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## IV (Jul 16, 2002)

It's hard to consider Kobe, Iverson, or KG MVP candidates. While they are playing on a MVP level, the team isn't winning. Nash, Duncan, Shaq, Lebron and Dirk has a much better chance of winning the award.


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## IV (Jul 16, 2002)

Jsimo12 said:


> *I dont think the award is predicated on how well your team does,* thats what Championships are for. But you have to have some team success to be considered. I mean Dan Dickau is incredibly important to the Hornets and without him theyd have at least 4 or 5 more losses (in relation to their wins this is a large percentage) but he cant be in the running because the team is so bad. It doesnt matter how much you mean to your team when your team isnt experiencing success. There are plenty of other candidates whose teams will make a splash.


The award is predicated on how well your team does. Take a look at each MVP winner over the past X amount of years. They all have come from teams that finished at or near the top of their conference. The voters always select the players who's individual stats are elite and the player who has led his team to a great win loss ratio in the regular season.


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## Geaux Tigers (Apr 26, 2004)

IV said:


> The award is predicated on how well your team does. Take a look at each MVP winner over the past X amount of years. They all have come from teams that finished at or near the top of their conference. The voters always select the players who's individual stats are elite and the player who has led his team to a great win loss ratio in the regular season.


What Im saying is I dont think its predicated on how good your team is aside from you. It _is_ predicated on how well your team does including you.

You see what Im saying? You cant remove the MVP player in question and then how good the team is without him to determine the MVP.


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## IV (Jul 16, 2002)

Jsimo12 said:


> What Im saying is I dont think its predicated on how good your team is aside from you. It _is_ predicated on how well your team does including you.
> 
> You see what Im saying? You cant remove the MVP player in question and then how good the team is without him to determine the MVP.


agreed


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## thegreatnero (Jan 8, 2005)

Team success is an essential factor in the MVP calculations. Basketball is first and foremost about WINNING, not pretty stats. Obviously a player can have a great individual season but lousy teamates, yet that's just bad luck for him that can't be helped. It would look stupid for someone to be awarded an MVP when their team is barely making the playoffs as he should be at the gym with his teamates worrying about why they aren't wining, not glorying in an individual award. To keep players honest and focused on winning during the season and the offseason (by dint of their influence over signings, etc.) they have to know that team success is far more important than stat padding. That said, individual greatness has to be there too.

Even if it was just about individual success, I don't believe Iverson is outplaying KG, though he does come close.

The MVP candidates are Duncan, Shaq, and Dirk, with LJ lurking a few paces behind.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

I picked Dirk at the start of the year so it would be nice if he won, but I think TD wins.


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## jokeaward (May 22, 2003)

It'll be Duncan followed by Shaq. TD was second last year and the team's better this year... they might not lose 3 at home all year.


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## MiamiWade (Jan 23, 2005)

AI is in the race and has a good chance if the sixers win a round of playoffs.


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## socco (Jul 14, 2002)

MiamiWade said:


> AI is in the race and has a good chance if the sixers win a round of playoffs.


And he has just as good of a chance if the sixers lose in the first round of the playoffs. Voting is done before the playoffs begin.


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## stipe (Sep 28, 2004)

The place of the last 49 MVP awards teams into the conference is as follow : 
- 35 times at 1st place 
- 7 times at 2nd 
- 4 times at 3rd 
- 2 times at 4th 
- 1 time at 6th

AI and phila will be third in their conference with the 8th best record, in fact...


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## Drewbs (Feb 16, 2004)

Whodinee said:


> ok, whats your reasonining behind this?


Replace Nash with any PG who is good at running a high tempo offense and the Suns are pretty decent. Dirk has made significant strides in his game. Last year, he had a number of flaws in his game, his defense, how he was slightly passive, and didn't attack the basket, and that he was a blackhole on offense (not in the sense that he hogged the ball, more that he would just catch and shoot in a lot of bad situations). He has improved these all significantly this season. He does have the ball in his gands more, and will put it on the floor or post up to draw fouls and get to the line, he creates more for both himself and his teammates some too. His defense is better, rather than just standing around, he guards his man pretty good. Not as good as other defensive bigmen like Shaq or Duncan, but hes definately improved, Dampier is still their best interior defender though. The Mavs though are so deep that its hard to just give Dirk the instant frontrunner status,


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## thegreatnero (Jan 8, 2005)

stipe said:


> The place of the last 49 MVP awards teams into the conference is as follow :
> - 35 times at 1st place
> - 7 times at 2nd
> - 4 times at 3rd
> ...


Sorry, but the Walker trade is looking pretty darn good for the Celtics, while the CWebb trade is looking nasty for the Sixers. AI and Co. willl be lucky to pass up the Celitics and stay ahead of the Nets for that matter. Please end this AI for MVP foolishness right now.


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## stipe (Sep 28, 2004)

thegreatnero said:


> Sorry, but the Walker trade is looking pretty darn good for the Celtics, while the CWebb trade is looking nasty for the Sixers. AI and Co. willl be lucky to pass up the Celitics and stay ahead of the Nets for that matter. Please end this AI for MVP foolishness right now.


that's what i think, too!!!
i think for the moment phily is 20th in tha nba!! at best, they would be 18th, maybe...
i can't imagine a MVP playing for the 11th or th 13th worst team of the league!!


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## tempe85 (Jan 7, 2005)

I'm sorry to all the Allen Iverson fans but I honestly don't really like the guy. He takes so many shots and hits such a low percentage that it just makes me cringe (so sue me I'm sort of a statistician). Iverson ranks 53rd in the NBA in PointsPerShot and yet ranks #1 in the NBA in FGA per game (by 3 a game!). I don't see how someone who takes the most shots and hits them a very subpar amount of times is really all that valuable to a team. Think about it this way.. are you satisfied when your team shoots 42% for the game? Moreso are you completely thrilled? I'm not, thrilled at least. That's what Iverson shoots, in fact it's one of the highest percentages of his entire career. Further.. the guy plays 42 minutes a game. If adjusted for PP48 minutes he ranks behind Stoudemire, Nowitzki, and Jermaine O'Neal. I just don't think jacking up the most amount of shots, and playing more minutes then anyone else is really qualification for MVP. Sure I understand he plays his guts out and has other intangibles which make him a great player but the MVP needs be more efficient then that.


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