# Eighth-grader beats Rondo in shooting contest



## Premier

<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td class="alt2" style="border: 1px inset ;"> It is a rap that has dogged him throughout his career. Jerry West told me last season that if Rondo had been able to shoot even a little bit, he would have been a high lottery pick. (He was taken at No. 21.) In his first NBA season, Rondo shot 41.8 percent from the floor and was a nonfactor from behind the 3-point arc (6 for 29, 20.7 percent).

One day last spring, I was waiting to do a postpractice interview with Pierce, who was receiving treatment in the training room. There were only two players left in the gym: Rondo and Doc Rivers's eighth-grade son, Austin. *Rondo, his shirt off, had assistant coach Kevin Eastman feed him the ball for 100 jumpers. With nobody guarding him, Rondo hit 52 of them. Minutes later, Doc's son duplicated the drill -- only he knocked down 70.
* 
Shooting is all about two things: confidence and repetition. This summer, Rondo said, he has not allowed himself to quit for the day until he's buried 250-280 jumpers. He is playing a fair amount of pick-up games in the Bluegrass State with NBA veterans such as Nazr Mohammad and Scott Padgett, but he will not drive to the hole. In every situation -- not just some situations -- he's pulling up for the perimeter jumper. While this might be a mild annoyance to his pick-up teammates -- who groan when Rondo blows past the defense, then pulls back for a 15-footer -- he understands it is critical to his development. </td> </tr> </tbody></table> 
*Rondo won't pass up shot - *Jackie MacMullan

The article does not state whether the shots attempted during the drill were exclusively perimter shots or shots from anywhere on the floor, but if it was the latter, 52% is rather pathetic. If they were perimter shots, 52% isn't _so_ bad, but I don't think a fourteen year old can hit 70% from the NBA three. Hitting 52% of mid-range, uncontested, no-pressure, shots is really, really bad. He must improve if he wants to be effective on offense.

Rondo is only making 250 jumpers per day. Comparitively, Gilbert Arenas is making about 1,400 per day. <!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote -->


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## Basketball

Good to hear Rondo is working hard to improve his shot. That he's going out there and actively trying to get better is all we can ask for...

Rondo will never be a great shooter... but if he can work his way up to being an average mid-range shooter it will make a big difference.


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## Aznboi812

at least hes trying to improve. But I just hope his passing is accurate.


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## Causeway

Basketball said:


> Good to hear Rondo is working hard to improve his shot. That he's going out there and actively trying to get better is all we can ask for...
> 
> Rondo will never be a great shooter... but if he can work his way up to being an average mid-range shooter it will make a big difference.


exactly. We don't need or expect him to be Gilbert Arenas. There's no comparison there. He just needs to shoot well enough to keep the D honest.


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## Jizzy

I never understood why players have a hard time finding a release form on there jumpshot. Rondo's jumpshot was non-existent last season and now with all of the attention the Big Three will draw, he'll have to develop a jumper.


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## E.H. Munro

Basketball said:


> Good to hear Rondo is hardly working [strike]hard[/strike] to improve his shot.


There, corrected that for you. (When Ty Thomas won't leave the gym till he's drained 800 jumpers, Rondo's 250-280 represents a pathetic effort.)


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## BG7

Yeah, and thats Tyrus Thomas. A big man. Kobe, Deng, Gordon, they all have to do thousands of makes.

All of them even were going for a thousand in high school. 

Tyson Chandler (notorious for not working out in the summer when he was with the Bulls), does just that many in FREE THROWS.

Rondo isn't working out at all. Given that he has a coach feeding him the ball, he is doing about 36 minutes of work on his jump shot...and it only takes that long because he can't hit them at a normal NBA clip. Most NBA players would do it in 10+ minutes less. He is doing too little work, and will see zero improvement on his jumpshot,and may regress.

Rondo is pathetic, and his lack of effort might be what keeps the Celtics from being able to compete this year.


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## Causeway

Mebarak said:


> Rondo is pathetic


I would not go that far.


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## P-Dub34

I mentioned this is another thread.

The problem is regardless of how many he's taking, he hasn't changed his form. Uh...hello? Isn't that the first place you'd start?


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## cgcatsfan

Which is a valid criticism. He does need to work on his form. 
You would think, however, that since he was a rookie last year, a coach would be working with him on that. 

He's not wrong to be working on his perimeter shot. And it's not like the drill with the coach feeding him is the only work out he's getting. 

I think people are being too hard on him and that he'll do very well this season. Most of his stats gradually improved all year last year. There is NO way that he's going to hold the team back.


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## mrsister

Premier said:


> Rondo is only making 250 jumpers per day. Comparitively, Gilbert Arenas is making about 1,400 per day.


Arenas shot 41.8% from the field last year. Rondo shot 41.8% as well. I realize Arenas shot a lot more threes than Rondo, so that brought his percentage down, but I don't think Rondo is completely horrible. I'm not denying his jumper needs work. It most certainly does. But I think improving his layups would be more beneficial right now. If he makes those consistently after getting to the hoop, then he may make defenses collapse, leaving good shooters open. 

As far as his jumper, I don't think all hope is lost. There have been lots of players who came into the league and didn't shoot well but developed a shot over the years. I think shooting can be taught. However, I also think Rondo has a lot of qualities that either can't be taught or are much harder to teach - quickness, court vision, taking care of the ball, defense. He's not an all-around player, but he's already got a head start on some of the things that many players take a long time to get or never get at all. I really don't think his lack of shootings skills is as big a liability as people make it out to be. With last year's team, yes, it was. With this year's team, not as much.


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## Causeway

agreed mrsister. With the 3 Amigos on the floor, you really can't afford to double anyone. Yes maybe you can back off Rondo a little to cover one of the 3. That still leaves one of the other 2 at worst covered by one guy. He'll be fine.


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## P-Dub34

> Arenas shot 41.8% from the field last year. Rondo shot 41.8% as well. I realize Arenas shot a lot more threes than Rondo, so that brought his percentage down, but I don't think Rondo is completely horrible.


Don't even compare these two. It's not fair to Arenas, at all.

Arenas hosited a ton of not just threes, but extremely difficult shots as well. The guy has about as much sense as Bryant when it comes to a good or bad shot to take. His jumper, however, is sweet. 

Not completely horrible? The guy's got the worst jumper out of any guard in the NBA. He managed to shoot under 30% from outside _five feet around the basket_ last year. As for shooting being able to be taught - only to an extent. He's never going to be a really good shooter. The most we can hope for is for him to just be able to stick the open jumper when he gets it.

As for his shooting not being a liability on this team - check my post in the Rondo thread. It will be a big problem with this crew of guys this year.



> With the 3 Amigos on the floor, you really can't afford to double anyone.


Uhh...what? Rondo's man will be free to double all night long. They'll dare him to shoot even a fifteen footer. It is not going to flow as well as you all think it will.


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## Jizzy

Causeway said:


> agreed mrsister. With the 3 Amigos on the floor, you really can't afford to double anyone. Yes maybe you can back off Rondo a little to cover one of the 3. That still leaves one of the other 2 at worst covered by one guy. He'll be fine.



Actually, I wouldn't be surprised to see most coaches tell there players to back off of Rondo and whoever is playing Center.


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## P-Dub34

That's exactly what will happen. When he has the ball, Rondo will be given three feet of cushion, thereby making driving twice as hard, and off the ball, he's going to get about as much attention as Eric Snow. It is absolutely crucial that he has a consistent fifteen footer.


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## Causeway

--


causeway said:


> you can back off Rondo a little to cover one of the 3. That still leaves one of the other 2 at worst covered by one guy. He'll be fine.


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## E.H. Munro

mrsister said:


> Arenas shot 41.8% from the field last year. Rondo shot 41.8% as well. I realize Arenas shot a lot more threes than Rondo, so that brought his percentage down, but I don't think Rondo is completely horrible.


Gilbert Arenas 
overall .484 aFG% 1.13 PP/FGA
jumpers .454 aFG% (75% of his FGA)

Rimjob Rondo
overall .424 aFG% .944 PP/FGA
jumpers .327 aFG% (50% of his FGA)

Keep in mind that Arenas' running mates are consummate garbagemen (i.e. can't create for themselves and don't command a doubleteam), meaning that he did the same thing Pierce has done the last several years (control the offense and shoot with two or three men in his face). Rondo rarely had even one man challenging his shot (as his guy was normally off doubling someone else). Look even deeper, and you see that Rondo shot a grand total of 29 treys, meaning that despite the fact that 87% of his jumpers were probably fired from 20' and in, _uncontested_, he still couldn't hit the broad side of a ****ing barn. He adds new meaning to the phrase "bad shot". He was downright Walkeresque (which probably isn't fair to Walker as I think even he managed to shoot .400 on jumpers).



mrsister said:


> I'm not denying his jumper needs work.


I'm not denying that Josef Stalin was a tad paranoid.



mrsister said:


> As far as his jumper, I don't think all hope is lost. There have been lots of players who came into the league and didn't shoot well but developed a shot over the years. I think shooting can be taught. However, I also think Rondo has a lot of qualities that either can't be taught or are much harder to teach - quickness, court vision, taking care of the ball, defense. He's not an all-around player, but he's already got a head start on some of the things that many players take a long time to get or never get at all. I really don't think his lack of shootings skills is as big a liability as people make it out to be. With last year's team, yes, it was. With this year's team, not as much.


Rondo barely works on his shot. And his inability to shoot is a _bigger_ liability this year than last, because last year the Celtics had a bunch on non-ball handlers, that allowed Rondo to dominate the ball and distribute, well enough for them to rack up a 4-31 record. This year, when the ball's in his hands it isn't in the hands of someone that can actually do something with it. This year, to spring up Pierce/Allen/Garnett they need someone that can space the floor, something that Rondo's incapable of doing.


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## Diable

I don't keep up with the ratings of 8th graders like some people do,but I understand that Doc's son is really highly rated among players his age...Assuming this isn't another son.It really doesn't surprise me that an 8th grader could outshoot Rondo.Steve Kerr was in the 8th grade once...And ROndo isn't Steve Kerr also.


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## P-Dub34

> This year, when the ball's in his hands it isn't in the hands of someone that can actually do something with it. This year, to spring up Pierce/Allen/Garnett they need someone that can space the floor, something that Rondo's incapable of doing.


That's what I've been saying, and I don't understand why everybody writes this point off as a non-factor. This is an extremely real problem.

You know what, I've made my point. When Allen/Garnett/Pierce are getting mobbed because Rondo can't hit a wide open fifteen footer, I'll be back to say I told you so.



> you can back off Rondo a little to cover one of the 3. That still leaves one of the other 2 at worst covered by one guy. He'll be fine.


Wait, so because he can't shoot, instead of being able to pass to a guy for an easy two (or three) with nobody within ten feet, you pass it to Pierce/Garnett/Allen who are on single coverage so they can try and make something happen?

Do you not see something wrong with that?

Is Sacto looking to trade Bibby?


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## Causeway

My point was that you can not at the same time, double team KG, PP and Ray.


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## P-Dub34

Okay, but where are you going with that? 

Rondo gives Garnett an entry pass (difficult because his opposite one-guard is already shading down to double Garnett because he knows Rondo won't shoot it). Garnett is immediately doubled. Now, instead of the simple thing and KG just passing it back to Rondo for a wide open jumper, you're telling me he has to find Pierce or Allen in single coverage and hope they can do something with it? Don't you see a flaw in that plan?


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## E.H. Munro

P-Dub34 said:


> Okay, but where are you going with that?
> 
> Rondo gives Garnett an entry pass (difficult because his opposite one-guard is already shading down to double Garnett because he knows Rondo won't shoot it). Garnett is immediately doubled. Now, instead of the simple thing and KG just passing it back to Rondo for a wide open jumper, you're telling me he has to find Pierce or Allen in single coverage and hope they can do something with it? Don't you see a flaw in that plan?


This is the biggest problem, and I'm not sure why people don't recognise that Rondo's going to slow down the offense. The problem starts once the ball's no longer in his hands, and his man is roaming the passing lanes looking for steals. The only way to keep his man from disrupting the flow of the offense, is to keep the ball in his hands, which takes it away from better players. I hope this is an indication of faith in Gabe Pruitt (and that Pruitt can justify it next year). Otherwise I'd feel a lot better about having Charlie Bell here.


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## banner17

I'll wait until January 1st brfore I pass judgement. I recall slight improvements in his shot over the year and expect that to continue. We said the same thing about Tony Allen being a bad shooter his first year, bad form etc, and he showed marked improvement in his second season.

As for the contest. I one free throw shooting competitions and basketball camps in 5th and 6th grade, averaging 85 and 90% respectively with over 1000 shots taken each week. They weren't jump shots, but then again, Rondo and Rivers weren't in front of 500 screaming kids in a competition consisting of 100 shots taken on the last day. I don't put a lot of stock into what the 8th grader did. I could shoot, but was a crappy basketball player in general. Still love the game....

I think Rondo will be just fine.


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## rocketeer

Causeway said:


> My point was that you can not at the same time, double team KG, PP and Ray.


but why would you need to? rondo's man can play off of him when he has the ball and take away his driving ability and daring him to take shots he can't make. and then when rondo doesn't have the ball his man can play off of him and double whoever does have the ball. team don't need to double garnett, pierce, and allen all at the same time because there is only one ball. they just need to double the guy that has it.


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## E.H. Munro

banner17 said:


> I'll wait until January 1st brfore I pass judgement. I recall slight improvements in his shot over the year and expect that to continue. We said the same thing about Tony Allen being a bad shooter his first year, bad form etc, and he showed marked improvement in his second season.


Tony Allen _is_ a bad shooter, and still far better than Rondo.


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## NetsFan

Do celtics fans still want Rondo as their starting pg


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## banner17

NetsFan said:


> Do celtics fans still want Rondo as their starting pg


Yes and no

I'd rather have Jason Kidd or Steve Nash, but that's not going to happen. 

Considering where we were at three months ago, I'll take Rondo over West in a heartbeat. I don't ever think he'll be an All Star, but I think as soon as this year, he'll be a top 15 PG in this league, which is all this squad needs. He's got freakish athleticism and knows how to play the game (smaret), minus shooting. I think he'll do just fine this year and beyond.


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## Premier

He's not the best fit at point guard with Garnett, Pierce, and Allen until his shooting improves. There are better options available.


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## Causeway

P-Dub34 said:


> Okay, but where are you going with that?
> 
> Rondo gives Garnett an entry pass (difficult because his opposite one-guard is already shading down to double Garnett because he knows Rondo won't shoot it). Garnett is immediately doubled. Now, instead of the simple thing and KG just passing it back to Rondo for a wide open jumper, you're telling me he has to find Pierce or Allen in single coverage and hope they can do something with it? Don't you see a flaw in that plan?


Would I like it if Rondo was a shooting threat? Yes. Would the C's be stronger if Rondo was a shooting threat? Yes. Might we still pick up a PG this summer with a more solid outside shot? Yes. But you can't always have it all. Hopefully contrary to the doom and gloom in here, he has worked on his shot to the point where at least defenders respect it. Many players have improved their outside shot through work. But if his lack of a shot becomes as big an issue as some seem to think it will be - without giving any benefit of the doubt that he's improved over the summer, or seen even one game with our "new team" play together - but if it's that big of an issue, I have confidence we'll make adjustments. You don't sit on the opportunity of having KG/Pierce/Ray.


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## BG7

Celtics should look to make a move for Jannero Pargo at some point in the season.


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## E.H. Munro

Or sign Chris Duhon next summer.


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## Premier

Duhon won't sign for the LLE next season [Pollard apparently signed for the veteran's minimum; the Herald was incorrect] and there are better free agents to use our MLE on.


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## E.H. Munro

Premier said:


> Duhon won't sign for the LLE next season [Pollard apparently signed for the veteran's minimum; the Herald was incorrect] and there are better free agents to use our MLE on.



I was kind of hoping that they would address the hole at the 5 now, and the 1 next summer, if not then they need to address the 1 with Charlie Bell now. There are not really any trades open to them (outside something like a Rondo/Moobs for Count Pachulia/AJ/#2 deal) to address either spot, so they need to address one with an MLE signing this summer and the other next (say PJ this year and Duhon next, or Bell this year and KT next).


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## mrsister

P-Dub34 said:


> Okay, but where are you going with that?
> 
> Rondo gives Garnett an entry pass (difficult because his opposite one-guard is already shading down to double Garnett because he knows Rondo won't shoot it). Garnett is immediately doubled. Now, instead of the simple thing and KG just passing it back to Rondo for a wide open jumper, you're telling me he has to find Pierce or Allen in single coverage and hope they can do something with it? Don't you see a flaw in that plan?


Pierce or Allen with single coverage isn't such a bad thing, especially Pierce. As long as Pierce isn't looking at Ron Artest, Pierce is just fine with single coverage. It's been a long while since Pierce has seen much single coverage. He'll take a step back shot, drive past him, or draw a foul. And if a double comes, then one of the other two stars are single covered. 

I'm not arguing that Rondo improving his shot won't help a lot. It would. I just don't think of it as a doomsday scenario if he does not, and I also don't think he's incapable of improving, which a lot of you seem to think. Tony Parker shot 41.9% his rookie year. Jason Kidd shot 38.5% his rookie year and is only a 40.2% shooter over his entire career. Steve Nash shot 36.3% his third year which is when he started playing significant minutes. Chauncy Billups shot 39% his rookie year and only 41.2% over his entire career. 

I know people are going to say you can't just look at percentages, but they are what they are. None of the above players were great shooters, and some of them still aren't. But they're invaluable to their respective teams. Rondo's not at their level, and I'm not going to predict he's going to be, but I just don't get how people can look at his rookie year and college career and decide the rest of his career from it when historically, so many other players have improved on their shortcomings or developed skills they didn't have before. Minor adjustments to a shot can be the difference between the ball going in and bouncing out. Confidence is another big factor. Rondo is a hesitant shooter. He needs to be encouraged to take the open shot. If he thinks too much, he's going to miss. 

I'm not guaranteeing anything, but I'm not counting him out and saying he'll never be a good point guard for this team. I will say that I would be very surprised if Rondo didn't improve in a lot of areas this coming year, not just shooting.


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## Premier

They would have to trade Scalabrine [and their '10 first, at least] to sign Bell and they would still have 3.8M of the MLE to use, meaning they could add a guy like Ruben Patterson with the remaining MLE and Adonal Foyle for the minimum. Next year, they could sign KT for the MLE, giving them a bench of Thomas, Davis, Patterson, House, and Rondo, which is solid.


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## Premier

mrsister said:


> Pierce or Allen with single coverage isn't such a bad thing, especially Pierce. As long as Pierce isn't looking at Ron Artest, Pierce is just fine with single coverage. It's been a long while since Pierce has seen much single coverage. He'll take a step back shot, drive past him, or draw a foul. And if a double comes, then one of the other two stars are single covered.


Ever heard of double-teaming the ball? 



> I'm not arguing that Rondo improving his shot won't help a lot. It would. I just don't think of it as a doomsday scenario if he does not, and I also don't think he's incapable of improving, which a lot of you seem to think. Tony Parker shot 41.9% his rookie year. Jason Kidd shot 38.5% his rookie year and is only a 40.2% shooter over his entire career. Steve Nash shot 36.3% his third year which is when he started playing significant minutes. Chauncy Billups shot 39% his rookie year and only 41.2% over his entire career.


These players had a higher eFG% and attempted longer range two point attempts. Rondo barely attempts jump shots.


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## banner17

Premier said:


> He's not the best fit at point guard with Garnett, Pierce, and Allen until his shooting improves. There are better options available.


No doubt, but to do my best Pitino impersonation; 'Bob Cousy isn't walking through that door, Dennis Johnson isn't walking through that door,'...and...'the negativity in this town (on this board) sucks.' 


Give the kid a chance. He's a second year player. Maybe there are better options out there, but with a kid this young, for the money; I don't think you can make a difinitive arguement until we give him a shot. Maybe there are some guys out there commanding the MLE who may or may not be better. Everyone keeps crying Bell, but we all know Milwaukee will match whatever we offer, it's a pipe dream. 

I can't blame Ainge for not taking a flyer on maybe guys. Despite all of your knowledge Prem and everyone else on this board, known of us know dick until the games are played and we see how Rondo does. 

The team management has 60 mil per locked up in 3 HOF players in their prime. I think they've gotten good value for House and Pollard with veteran's minimum contracts. We might get Reggie Miller, whom could be a top reserve SG in the league. There's still money to throw at another big. 

I think all the criticism that Rondo is getting now before the season even starts is undue. Give the kid who showed tremendous promise as a rookie a shot with three HOFAMERS and after 30 games, if we're 15 and 15 and he's shooting 39% with 4 TO's a game, then we should talk. Until then, I think everyone should STFU. Rondo could be bad, not the right fit, but he also could be great and not a single one of us has a crystal ball to predict what we'll see. It's a new team....


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## Premier

I'm fine with letting Rondo start just to see what would happen, but I would prefer if the Celtics have a backup plan not named Eddie. Charlie Bell isn't the only option, by the way.


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## BG7

Duhon stagnates the Bulls offense currently. He really isn't too bad of a jumpshooter. Hits 47.5 eFG% on his jumpers. But he is hesitant and afraid to shoot sometimes, which completely blows up the Bulls offense.

He's a decent floor general and a above average passer. So if he could get more confidence in his shot, he'd be a great fit for Boston. 

You have to factor in if Chicago beats Boston this year, and gets to the finals...thy might just shell out the money to keep Duhon just to keep him out of Boston.


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## Marcus13

funny ****


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## E.H. Munro

Premier said:


> They would have to trade Scalabrine [and their '10 first, at least] to sign Bell and they would still have 3.8M of the MLE to use, meaning they could add a guy like Ruben Patterson with the remaining MLE and Adonal Foyle for the minimum. Next year, they could sign KT for the MLE, giving them a bench of Thomas, Davis, Patterson, House, and Rondo, which is solid.


Theoretically they could just flat out offer Bell a five year deal and dare Milwaukee to match. With looming extensions for Bogut & Charlie Eyebrows, and with Redd & Mo Williams on long term deals, they might just decide to let Bell go. They could also look to Atlanta, who have a variety of players (possibly) available (and I only say "possibly" because I still want Childress here), like Count Pachulia and AJ.


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## Truth34

You guys act like a double team of Garnett would stop the Celtics. Let's say the Celtics are playing the Knicks. Who doubles Garnett? Somebody from the weak side, a guard. Kevin Garnett is SEVEN FEET TALL. He can pass easily over most double-teams and find the open man. If Rondo's man doubles, Rondo cuts to the basket. He can make a layup, folks. Ball movement can destroy teams that double team. It's one thing when your other options are Ricky, Mark Blount, Foye and Trenton Hassell. But when your options are Paul Pierce, Ray Allen and Brian Scalabrine, with a good passer and cutter like Rondo, the Celtics will be very tough to contain.

Does Rondo need to improve his form and improve his shot? Yes. Cause for panic and hysteria? NO.


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## E.H. Munro

Truth34 said:


> You guys act like a double team of Garnett would stop the Celtics. Let's say the Celtics are playing the Knicks. Who doubles Garnett? Somebody from the weak side, a guard. Kevin Garnett is SEVEN FEET TALL. He can pass easily over most double-teams and find the open man. If Rondo's man doubles, Rondo cuts to the basket. He can make a layup, folks. Ball movement can destroy teams that double team. It's one thing when your other options are Ricky, Mark Blount, Foye and Trenton Hassell. But when your options are Paul Pierce, Ray Allen and Brian Scalabrine, with a good passer and cutter like Rondo, the Celtics will be very tough to contain.


Do you not understand that Rondo's shooting makes his defender most dangerous when the ball's _not_ in Rondo's hands? That's when he gets to jump the passing lanes for steals with little chance of getting burned.


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## BG7

Truth34 said:


> You guys act like a double team of Garnett would stop the Celtics. Let's say the Celtics are playing the Knicks. Who doubles Garnett? Somebody from the weak side, a guard. Kevin Garnett is SEVEN FEET TALL. He can pass easily over most double-teams and find the open man. If Rondo's man doubles, Rondo cuts to the basket. He can make a layup, folks. Ball movement can destroy teams that double team. It's one thing when your other options are Ricky, Mark Blount, Foye and Trenton Hassell. But when your options are Paul Pierce, Ray Allen and Brian Scalabrine, with a good passer and cutter like Rondo, the Celtics will be very tough to contain.
> 
> Does Rondo need to improve his form and improve his shot? Yes. Cause for panic and hysteria? NO.


Bulls vs. Celtics, likely playoff matchup. 

Two scenarios.

1. Ben Gordon starts the game. Guards Rondo. And by guards Rondo, I mean takes defense off, and becomes more deadly on the offensive end.

2. Thabo Sefolosha comes in for Hinrich/Gordon. He is on Rondo. He just sits there off Rondo with his long arms extended blocking the passing lanes. 
--------------------------------------------------
The fact that Rondo is taking his offseason workout as a joke as far as shooting goes could seriously set the Cetlics back.


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## Causeway

We have not yet played ONE game with the new 3 Amigos. We have not yet seen if Rondo has improved his shot over the summer. Before we predict the Bulls/Celtics playoff outcome, or the demise of the Celtics due to Rondo - who happens to be very talented - let's watch a little basketball.


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## silverpaw1786

P-Dub34 said:


> Okay, but where are you going with that?
> 
> Rondo gives Garnett an entry pass (difficult because his opposite one-guard is already shading down to double Garnett because he knows Rondo won't shoot it). Garnett is immediately doubled. Now, instead of the simple thing and KG just passing it back to Rondo for a wide open jumper, you're telling me he has to find Pierce or Allen in single coverage and hope they can do something with it? Don't you see a flaw in that plan?



KG kicks it out to Rondo who slashes to the hoop against his (now out of position) defender and lays it in or kicks to the player whose defender comes to help.

Alternatively, KG kicks it out to Rondo who swings the ball to the other side resulting in a lightly contested jumper by Jesus or Pierce.


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## E.H. Munro

silverpaw1786 said:


> KG kicks it out to Rondo, but the pass is picked off by Rondo's man, who's roaming the passing lanes.


There, fixed it for you.


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## BG7

With all the talk about Rondo driving to the hole, you just get that picture of Tyrus Thomas blocking him (although Ben Wallace would probably be the more appropriate image, since Ty will probably be guarding Garnett). 

I don't think there is just going to be a wide open lane like its the Red Sea.

You forget that Kirk Hinrich guards Ray Allen good, and Luol Deng the same on Pierce. Bulls have struggled with Garnett a bit, but they've been able to handle the other two with single coverage quite easily. So if they canjust have Ben Gordon roam the passing lanes, pester Garnett, etc...taking defense not so seriously and conserving his energy for defense, Celtics could be in trouble.


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## Causeway

Rondo will have at least 3 allstars to pass to. He did not have that last season. Good luck guarding that.


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## E.H. Munro

Mebarak said:


> With all the talk about Rondo driving to the hole, you just get that picture of Tyrus Thomas blocking him (although Ben Wallace would probably be the more appropriate image, since Ty will probably be guarding Garnett).
> 
> I don't think there is just going to be a wide open lane like its the Red Sea.
> 
> You forget that Kirk Hinrich guards Ray Allen good, and Luol Deng the same on Pierce. Bulls have struggled with Garnett a bit, but they've been able to handle the other two with single coverage quite easily. So if they canjust have Ben Gordon roam the passing lanes, pester Garnett, etc...taking defense not so seriously and conserving his energy for defense, Celtics could be in trouble.


They haven't handled Pierce and Allen well "with single coverage", they've handled them well becaused both players have been carrying bad teams, and they could focus their defense on shutting them down. It's going to be a lot harder now, but the Celtics will make life more difficult on themselves than they have to if they insist on running Rondo out there (with the starting 5, he's a fine backup).


----------



## HB

Rondo should not play more than 20 minutes a game


----------



## P-Dub34

silverpaw1786 said:


> KG kicks it out to Rondo who slashes to the hoop against his (now out of position) defender and lays it in or kicks to the player whose defender comes to help.
> 
> Alternatively, KG kicks it out to Rondo who swings the ball to the other side resulting in a lightly contested jumper by Jesus or Pierce.


If it were that easy Rondo would be a 20ppg scorer.


----------



## NJ+VC

so as of this moment would yall rather have rondo or delonte west(if he was still here) as your starting pg?


----------



## Causeway

Rondo. He can and should be able to learn to improve his shot well enough. Many talented PG's before him have. His speed and quickness and ability to pass is far superior to West's.


----------



## silverpaw1786

ehmunro said:


> There, fixed it for you.


You can't have it both ways. Is he doubling Garnett or roaming the passing lanes. Make a decision.


----------



## mrsister

P-Dub34 said:


> If it were that easy Rondo would be a 20ppg scorer.


He gave 3 scenarios, and in only one does Rondo score the ball, and it's on a layup, not a jumper. Nobody expects him to be a 20ppg scorer. While people may not respect his jumper, they'll have to respect his penetration. Rondo can blow by his own man (he did it a lot last year, and he didn't have a jumper or good teammates), and if someone doesn't come to help, he'll be able to score. If someone does come to help, that means they left someone else open. Rondo could have easily averaged 2 more assists per game last year if he had good teammates. Too many times, the receiver of his passes either wasn't expecting it or wasn't a good shooter either. Now he's got people who know what to do with the ball, not people who hesitate like Gerald Green or Allan Ray. Also, one guy nobody is talking about is Leon Powe. I think he can fill some of the void that Gomes left and produce some offense when nobody is paying any attention to him. I have a feeling he'll be playing a fair amount of minutes if we don't get another center, as KG will have to play that position sometimes.


----------



## Causeway

Great points on Rondo - and Powe.


----------



## E.H. Munro

silverpaw1786 said:


> You can't have it both ways. Is he doubling Garnett or roaming the passing lanes. Make a decision.


I'm sorry, did I say that the point guard would be doubling Garnett? I think Premier pointed out that Rondo's man would be able to double the ball at will. The only way to counter Rondo's complete lack of an offensive game is to leave the ball in his hands, which will decrease the overall offensive efficiency.


----------



## Airball Master

If rondo's defenders don't take him seriously, he will make them.
On the defensive side, Rondo will use insults like "hey bud, you not going to take me seriously on offense?" etc.



someguy said:


> It's one thing when your other options are Ricky, Mark Blount, Foye and Trenton Hassell. But when your options are Paul Pierce, Ray Allen and Brian Scalabrine, with a good passer and cutter like Rondo, the Celtics will be very tough to contain.


I like situation #2 better with Paul Pierce and Ray Allen on your team... you got that right.

Rondo was an incredible passer last year.. and will be an incredible passer this year. 
It will obviously be harder to drive, so what he will do is drive for the layup and pass at the last second to a wide open KG, Pierce, or Allen. It is really simple.


----------



## Airball Master

ehmunro said:


> I'm sorry, did I say that the point guard would be doubling Garnett? I think Premier pointed out that Rondo's man would be able to double the ball at will. The only way to counter Rondo's complete lack of an offensive game is to leave the ball in his hands, which will decrease the overall offensive efficiency.


Try watching some ball before deciding Rondo is disaster for this team. This guy is all-talent.


----------



## silverpaw1786

ehmunro said:


> I'm sorry, did I say that the point guard would be doubling Garnett? I think Premier pointed out that Rondo's man would be able to double the ball at will. The only way to counter Rondo's complete lack of an offensive game is to leave the ball in his hands, which will decrease the overall offensive efficiency.


If they don't double garnett then he will score AT WILL. If they do, the aforementioned will happen. You have to choose one. I guarantee the celtics will score over 100 ppg this season.


----------



## E.H. Munro

Airball Master said:


> Try watching some ball before deciding Rondo is disaster for this team. This guy is all-talent.


Son, I probably watch more ball in any given season than you have in your lifetime. He's a very poor fit for the Celtics offense because the ball _has_ to be in his hands, which will make it easier to contain the Celtics offense. The one thing Boston doesn't need is a player that dominates the ball, because they already have a great collection of shot creators.


----------



## Avalanche

If you hit 52 from 100 OPEN jumpers i would have beaten you easily at 14 aswell.

something he really does need to improve on, if he had a solid jumper itd make this offense that much harder to contain, because you couldnt leave any one of them open


----------



## E.H. Munro

Avalanche said:


> If you hit 52 from 100 OPEN jumpers i would have beaten you easily at 14 aswell.
> 
> something he really does need to improve on, if he had a solid jumper itd make this offense that much harder to contain, because you couldnt leave any one of them open


The problem isn't just that he's a biblically bad shot, it's that he has such a casual attitude about it. Josh Smith is another player that came to the NBA without anything remotely resembling a jumper (he was, in fact, far worse than Rondo), but he's killed himself improving the shot (even though it's still bad). If Rondo actually cared enough to attack that weakness in his game, that'd be one thing. But he seems to have that same sense of entitlement that so many other of the Celtics lately departed kids had. And it's as misplaced in his case as it was for the rest of them. Being a good player on an historically bad team, and filling a stat sheet against opponents that were playing at half speed (because they didn't want to get their stars injured during an exhibition game) doesn't make one a future star. I wish someone would beat that into his head. At the least we'll have to hope his attitude doesn't wear off on Gabe Pruitt and that Pruitt kills himself to become an NBA starter.


----------



## Airball Master

ehmunro said:


> Son, I probably watch more ball in any given season than you have in your lifetime. He's a very poor fit for the Celtics offense because the ball _has_ to be in his hands, which will make it easier to contain the Celtics offense. The one thing Boston doesn't need is a player that dominates the ball, because they already have a great collection of shot creators.


Keep speculating kid.
He is somehow not working hard yet it is written that he is working specifically on his jumper.

Rondo thinks he has some sort of entitlement? To being lazy? Not even close.
He is a hard worker


----------



## Causeway

Avalanche said:


> If you hit 52 from 100 OPEN jumpers i would have beaten you easily at 14 aswell.
> 
> something he really does need to improve on, if he had a solid jumper itd make this offense that much harder to contain, because you couldnt leave any one of them open


Exactly. Just because this 8th grader can shoot does not mean he can play basketball. And just because Rondo lost this contest, does not mean he has not been working on imroving his shot, or that it has not gotten better. "Eighth-grader beats Rondo in shooting contest" makes for a nice sensational headline though.

But in here there are themes that take on level bording on hysteria. There was the Marcus Banks hysteria after he was traded and then ended up on thee Suns that led to quotes like "Banks would be a starter on most teams". Of course you don't hear anyting close to that in here now. Banks is lucky to be in the NBA.

Now we have the Rondo summer hysteria leading to quotes like he has a "complete lack of an offensive game" or he has a "sense of entitlement". Really?? He happens to have an excellent offensive game. Yes, his shot _from what we have seen so far_ sucks. But his entire offensive game? No. As far as him taking or making less shots than Gilbert Arenas, does not mean much - another good headline though. It's the quality of practice with shooting that counts. If you take 1000 shots with the wrong form is that good? No.

I'll give Rondo the benefit of the doubt that he does not have some so-called "sense of entitlement" (more hysteria) and has worked on improving his main glaring weakness - until I see some basketball.


----------



## mrsister

If you read the article, there are lots of indications he's taking working on his shot seriously. Aside from taking open shots in the gym, he's playing pickup games with other NBA players and not driving to the basket at all. Every shot he takes is a jumper. He's worked considerably with Kevin Eastman on his shot, and Eastman has checked up on him and seen marked improvement. Also, the shooting contest was in the spring after practice, not recently. Rondo was the last guy in the gym other than Doc and his son, and he was working on his shot. Maybe he didn't do so well, but I don't get where people think he has a lazy attitude about it. Staying after practice is hardly lazy. He certainly recognizes his weakness and is working hard on it. There's more to practicing your shot than just shooting open jumpers in an empty gym. There are deadeye shooters in the NBA who participate in the three point contest and do horribly. The in-game situation is much different than just being fed a ball with nobody guarding you. Some people are just better at one than the other. If you watch the warmups of teams before a game, there are players draining shots that can't hit a shot outside of five feet from the basket in a real game situation. I think it's more helpful for him to go up against other players and shoot.

All Rondo has to do is be able to knock down a jumper when he's open but under pressure. He doesn't have to be a scoring point guard. I think that would harm the Celtics more than help. I'd rather have a Jason Kidd than a Stephon Marbury. If the shot is there, he should take it, but he shouldn't force anything. He has plenty of help. All he has to do is make his man guard him, and I don't think it's a stretch that he'll be able to do that eventually.


----------



## E.H. Munro

Airball Master said:


> Keep speculating kid.


I'm one of the site's geezers. Odds are that I am flat out older.



Airball Master said:


> He is somehow not working hard yet it is written that he is working specifically on his jumper.


Rondo bragged about not needing to change his ugly form and shooting "250 to 280" jumpers a day. That's very little work on getting good with his atrocious form. Most players that shoot that badly fire up 500-1000 a day. Ra_on doesn't think that he needs to work that hard. That's a problem, whether you want to admit it or not.


----------



## BG7

Airball Master said:


> Keep speculating kid.
> He is somehow not working hard yet it is written that he is working specifically on his jumper.
> 
> Rondo thinks he has some sort of entitlement? To being lazy? Not even close.
> He is a hard worker


Straight from Rondo's mouth that he's not working on his jumpshot.

"Rondo said, he has not allowed himself to quit for the day until he's buried 250-280 jumpers."

Thats called shooting around, not working on improving his jumpshot.

But I take it that you don't know much about basketball if you think that 250-280 shots is the definition of specifically working on his jumpshot. 

For comparison, Tyrus Thomas goes for 800, Luol Deng and Ben Gordon both did 1,000...in HIGH SCHOOL. Those are hardworkers. Rondo is a slacker, he will not improve, he might regress, and he will probably hold the Celtics back from winning a championship with his laissez-fare attitude on improving his game.


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## Causeway

The article _clearly_ states that Rondo is _making _250-280 jumpers, not _taking_. And as noted by mrsister - Rondo also is playing pick-up games with NBA players where he is only taking jumpers - as well as working with Eastman.

This may not qualify as your definition on how to improve an outside shot, but Rondo is obviously focusing on working on his shot.


----------



## E.H. Munro

Mebarak said:


> Straight from Rondo's mouth that he's not working on his jumpshot.
> 
> "Rondo said, he has not allowed himself to quit for the day until he's buried 250-280 jumpers."
> 
> Thats called shooting around, not working on improving his jumpshot.
> 
> But I take it that you don't know much about basketball if you think that 250-280 shots is the definition of specifically working on his jumpshot.
> 
> For comparison, Tyrus Thomas goes for 800, Luol Deng and Ben Gordon both did 1,000...in HIGH SCHOOL. Those are hardworkers. Rondo is a slacker, he will not improve, he might regress, and he will probably hold the Celtics back from winning a championship with his laissez-fare attitude on improving his game.


Yeah, when you consider that Ty Thomas fires up 800 makes a day, and Gilbert Arenas more than a thousand makes a day, Rondo's light workload is mystifying.


----------



## BenDavis503

And that isnt just some 8th grader... thats Doc Rivers son !!! And Rondo sucks anyways... you guys should pick up Docs son for your skinny team.


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## Premier

> Rondo's heard about it since high school and knows that the scouting report will follow him until he proves otherwise, so he's spent all summer working on his shot. He claims *he hasn't made many mechanical changes aside from getting more lift on his jumper*, but has instead emphasized *shooting in game-like situations* (simulated pick-and rolls, for instance) *rather than just plucking Spauldings off a rack and letting them fly. *Most of all, he's been working on repetition -- getting up as many shots as he can as he tries to build confidence in what's admittedly been the weakest aspect of his game.


Celtics.com


----------



## Causeway

I am not a shot expert, but I'd think he could certainly use some changes in mechanics. However again I'll assume that he and Eastman etc. know what they are doing, and perhaps his issues were in fact simply being more confident in his shot. We shall see...


----------



## Avalanche

there have been a lot of guys be successful with ugly jump shots, as long as he starts making more of them i dont care what they look like


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan

very dissappointing to hear rondo is only aiming for 250 makes a day...if you have someone feeding you the ball after every shot that could take 45 minutes...imo thats not really working on anything


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## Causeway

#1AntoineWalkerFan said:


> very dissappointing to hear rondo is only aiming for 250 makes a day...if you have someone feeding you the ball after every shot that could take 45 minutes...imo thats not really working on anything


He's. Also. Playing. Games. With. NBA Players. Where. He. ONLY. Is. Taking. Outside. Shots.

Can we please stop with saying the only thing Rondo is doing is the 250 makes in practice.

Please?


----------



## #1AntoineWalkerFan

fair nuff...i missed that part of the article...im trying to read everything but damn 2 weeks worth of posts is hard to catch up on when i only got back from greece 9 hours ago!!! :biggrin:


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## E.H. Munro

Are there really any NBA players that don't play pickup ball games over the summer? His workload is pretty uninspiring for something that remains a gigantic hole in his game.


----------



## Causeway

Of course many other NBA players play games over the summer. We all know this. The point clearly is that during the games, Rondo is only taking outside shots. How many shots? Who knows. But getting confident in game situations in taking outside shots, for Rondo, is a good thing, and possibly more important than being able to hit shots in an empty gym. For many players shooting is as much of a mental obstacle as anything else.


----------



## Premier

Kobe, while participating in the FIBA Americas, made five hundred perimeter shots in one hour:



> Sunday was an off-day for Team USA, but a group of players made their way to the gym to get some shooting in. Among them was Kobe Bryant, who got in about an hour's worth of shots.
> 
> He worked from five different spots on the floor, making 25 shots from a foot inside the arc and then 25 more from beyond it before moving on to the next spot, stopping to hit seven free throws in between. He went from right baseline to left baseline and then back again. So, that's 500 makes from the perimeter, plus probably another 100 or so from the free throw line.


Surely Kobe isn't just shooting jumpers all day long. He is playing games of actual significance; unlike Rondo, yet he still manages to make twice the amount in only one hour.


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## Causeway

Kobe sucks. 

Also - Kobe in those games is not just working one one aspect of his game, Rondo is. If Rondo were playing pickup games and driving to the basket all day that'd be one thing. But it clearly said he would only shoot from the outside in the games.


----------



## Premier

Kobe does not need to improve his shot, yet he is playing more basketball than Rondo and he is shooting more than Rondo. Go figure.


----------



## Causeway

Kobe is playing more basketball because he is on Team USA. Actually you do not know if he really is playing more than Rondo. Also the article on Kobe was talking about one day, not everyday. 

But whatever - this debate will not go away. From what I have read on Rondo's comments, he's very aware on his one big wealness and seems to be working on it. 

Until we see some games, it's all just talk.


----------



## BG7

Causeway said:


> Kobe is playing more basketball because he is on Team USA. Actually you do not know if he really is playing more than Rondo. Also the article on Kobe was talking about one day, not everyday.
> 
> But whatever - this debate will not go away. From what I have read on Rondo's comments, he's very aware on his one big wealness and seems to be working on it.
> 
> Until we see some games, it's all just talk.


Yes, he's aware of his weakness, and he is working on it half assed.


----------



## Causeway

Has anyone in here watched shoot around before a game ever? Plenty of guys who can't hit **** in games make everything in shoot around. Why people in here see playing games and only shooting outside as half-assed is beyond me.


----------



## BG7

Because you need to have high repetition to have a solid jumpshot.

Its just basic basketball knowledge.

Shooting 17 outside shots in a pick up game isn't going to improve his jumper any.


----------



## E.H. Munro

Yeah, physical memory is a matter of repitition. You have to get the reps in if you want to get any good, and Rondo is approaching this with a terribly casual attitude. So now I'm rooting for Gabe Pruitt to work his *** off and take the spot.


----------



## CelticsRule

ehmunro said:


> Yeah, physical memory is a matter of repitition. You have to get the reps in if you want to get any good, and Rondo is approaching this with a terribly casual attitude. So now I'm rooting for Gabe Pruitt to work his *** off and take the spot.



I love how you take one mention of how Rondo works out in Jackie McMullen's article, run with it, and say he has a casual attitude. All the original article says is that he won't finish a day until he's hit 250-280. It doesn't say he only makes 250 jumpers for the entire day. How do you know he doesn't work on his shot before pick up games and then after the games he makes the 250-280. I'm not trying to say that he necessarily is, but I don't understand why it's necessary throughout this thread for you and Mebarak to constantly say Rondo has a bad attitude and his laziness will kill the team without knowing all the details. And also the Boston Globe isn' the most trustworthy news source for the Celtics, if I remember correctly they initially reported Al Jefferson wasn't part of the Garnett trade. 

No one is denying that Rondo needs to work on his shot, but I don't think it's right to criticize his work ethic without knowing all the details. If his shot is not improved this season then you can make that judgment, but I think he and the coaching staff know what they're doing.


----------



## Causeway

^ exactly CelticsRule. We have not at all heard exactly what he's doing all day, not have we seen him play. The Rondo Hysteria is overbaord.


----------



## Causeway

His shooting issues may have nothing to do with repitition, and may just be confidence. If that is the case - shooting in games and getting comfortable doing that could certainly help.


----------



## Premier

His poor shot is due to a flaw in his form. He releases the ball from his palm; not with his fingers. This makes his shot very erratic.


----------



## E.H. Munro

CelticsRule said:


> I love how you take one mention of how Rondo works out in Jackie McMullen's article, run with it, and say he has a casual attitude. All the original article says is that he won't finish a day until he's hit 250-280. It doesn't say he only makes 250 jumpers for the entire day. How do you know he doesn't work on his shot before pick up games and then after the games he makes the 250-280. I'm not trying to say that he necessarily is, but I don't understand why it's necessary throughout this thread for you and Mebarak to constantly say Rondo has a bad attitude and his laziness will kill the team without knowing all the details. And also the Boston Globe isn' the most trustworthy news source for the Celtics, if I remember correctly they initially reported Al Jefferson wasn't part of the Garnett trade.


Other, _better_ players make a point of busting hump to improve. There are no indications that Rondo is following suit. The only quotes from Rondo leave us with the opposite impression. Rondo was one that made the claim that he shot 250-280 makes a day, if he was misquoted, he should say so. His quote gives one the impression that he believes that everything is fine. It isn't. He has to make major strides with that jumper of his. Marginal improvement isn't enough.


----------



## Causeway

Premier said:


> His poor shot is due to a flaw in his form. He releases the ball from his palm; not with his fingers. This makes his shot very erratic.


How do you know this with certainty? There happen to be NBA players with ugly shots that do just fine. Sometimes for certain guys it's confidence.

Also as CelticsRule commented - the 250 # was what he does at the end of the day. We also know he plays games. He could also be shooting at other times of the day. We don't know. From all the Rondo articles over th summer I'd say he has far from a casual attitude toward his shot.


----------



## agoo

Then can we say that he has a casual shot compared to various superior shooters who make 500 or over 1000 a day, every day?


----------



## Causeway

No because all the article mentioned was what Rondo shoots at the end of the day. He could be shooting 5000 throughout the day. We don't know. And we have not seen the results of his summer efforts yet.


----------



## Premier

Causeway said:


> How do you know this with certainty? There happen to be NBA players with ugly shots that do just fine. Sometimes for certain guys it's confidence.


 http://www.redsarmy.com/rondojumper.htm

Rondo:










Mike Dunleavy:










By using his palm, Rondo's precision in guiding the ball into the basket falls greatly. Stop being so blind.


----------



## Premier

Causeway said:


> No because all the article mentioned was what Rondo shoots at the end of the day. He could be shooting 5000 throughout the day. We don't know. And we have not seen the results of his summer efforts yet.


Let's be serious. The article was written to glorify Rondo. If he were really taking a respectable amount of shots per day [750+], then it would have been reported.


----------



## Causeway

Premier said:


> By using his palm, Rondo's precision in guiding the ball into the basket falls greatly. Stop being so blind.


As I said - there are players with ugly shots who are still effective. It may be mechanics, it may not. Stop being so glib.


----------



## Premier

Okay, Tom. _Lions for Lambs _seems decent.

Bad shooting form is hard to overcome, but it's possible through a great amount of repetition [something Rondo hasn't done]. However, Rondo's form leaves more room for error than most other players with some exceptions since increasing the amount of surface area placed on the ball during a shot always leads to decreased efficiency.


----------



## Causeway

Tom?


----------



## P-Dub34

Those players with ugly shots don't shoot it out of their palms. Shawn Marion's shot is ugly, so is Kevin Martin's. But they both release it off their fingers - not their palms. If it were confidence, he'd have no problem drilling them in practice. 

I don't understand why people who try and convey reality in here are always referred to as "glib" or "doomsayers." The funny thing is, since I've been here the doomsayers have been right pretty much every time. Don't take this personally, Cause, because you contribute well to this board and are good for discussion, but you're just ignoring a fact right now. By using his palm he's effectively throwing the ball at the hoop, not guiding it. I think even you expressed concern last year that he was taking reps but not changing his form. 

I don't understand the propensity to overrate and hesitance to criticize members of the Boston Celtics on this board from some members.


----------



## Causeway

By "glib" I responding to Prem saying I was being "blind". By "glib" I was not saying Prem was being a "doomdayer", but that he had glib response to a perhaps more complex question. He may be right that it's all in his form. But does he know this for fact? I have maintained all through this thread that until we see some games, we won't know if what Rondo has done over the summer has had a positive effect on his shot. I think that's fair. To use one line from one article to state that Rondo is, among other things stated in this thread: "lazy", "does not care", "going to be our downfall", etc., is going overboard IMO.

I am not overrating Rondo. His shot has been an issue throughout his career. But from what I have read I DO think he is taking seriously his deficient shot. 

And the "doomsayers" in here certainly have not always gotten in right:

* After Banks got traded, people stated that he'd be a starter on most NBA teams. He's lucky to be in the NBA.

* People stated we'd never be able to move Wally. We did.

* People stated we'd never be able to move Blount. We did.

* People stated we'd never be able to move Raef. We did.

* People stated we'd lose Pierce. We did not.

* People stated that until Ainge was gone, we would not have a decent team. We have a decent team.

etc.


----------



## P-Dub34

OK. We'll see, I guess.


----------



## E.H. Munro

Go, Gabe! Don't take Rimjob's attitude as a sign of what you can get away with, work your butt off and take the job away.


----------



## #1AntoineWalkerFan

Causeway said:


> And the "doomsayers" in here certainly have not always gotten in right:
> 
> * After Banks got traded, people stated that he'd be a starter on most NBA teams. He's lucky to be in the NBA.
> 
> * People stated we'd never be able to move Wally. We did.
> 
> * People stated we'd never be able to move Blount. We did.
> 
> * People stated we'd never be able to move Raef. We did.
> 
> * People stated we'd lose Pierce. We did not.
> 
> * People stated that until Ainge was gone, we would not have a decent team. We have a decent team.
> 
> etc.



cause you are really reaching with these points...we moved raef by trading the number 7 overall pick and rookie of the year to get bumbass telfair and cap relief...we moved blout and GOT BACK wally...we moved wally only because we were so terrible again that we had a number 5 pick...none of those scenarios are anything to brag about


----------



## Premier

Causeway said:


> Tom?


"Matt. Matt, Matt, you don't even — you're glib"


----------



## E.H. Munro

#1AntoineWalkerFan said:


> cause you are really reaching with these points...we moved raef by trading the number 7 overall pick and rookie of the year to get bumbass telfair and cap relief...we moved blout and GOT BACK wally...we moved wally only because we were so terrible again that we had a number 5 pick...none of those scenarios are anything to brag about


Yeah, who the hell predicted that Banks would start on most NBA teams? I think a lot of people feel that Banks could be an adequate back-up. Or that Wally or Raef were tradeable if you used a high draft pick to do it (I said as much myself on several occasions). I think most of us even pointed out that the Celtics traded the seventh pick as a result of the Szczerbiak deal (future salary had to be slashed to account for Szczerbiak's cash). I think most of us have been right down the line. (My blog post of June 22nd should be proof of that. :bsmile


----------



## Celtics_Fan

Is he counting the jumpers he's taking in these games that he's not doing layups? I don't understand why someone who's willing to do this in pickup games has a "bad attitude" for working on his shot... Maybe he should have just said a higher number... it appears that the number of shots is the problem for some people... I don't think there are other indicators that he's being lazy, unmotivated, arrogant, etc.


----------



## E.H. Munro

Celtics_Fan said:


> Is he counting the jumpers he's taking in these games that he's not doing layups? I don't understand why someone who's willing to do this in pickup games has a "bad attitude" for working on his shot... Maybe he should have just said a higher number... it appears that the number of shots is the problem for some people... I don't think there are other indicators that he's being lazy, unmotivated, arrogant, etc.


Unless he's shooting every shot in those pickup gamers, that's not likely to be more than ten to twelve jumpers. As has been discussed throughout the thread, players that actually have jumpshots (which Rondo most certainly doesn't) shoot three to five times the number of makes that he does. When Ty Thomas shoots 800 makes a day to extend his range, a guy with no range beyond 12' should be doing at least as much.


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## Celtics_Fan

It is a stretch to use this 250-280 figure, and say he's lazy and his attitude is bad and he has a sense of entitlement. He could be doing other things besides making 250-280 jumpers a day to improve, and shooting them in games is just another way. If he's working on form with Eastman, shooting jumpers in pickup games and training camps, and if he's knocking down 250-280 a day, it doesn't show laziness and a bad attitude, no matter what Tyrus Thomas says he's doing.


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## P-Dub34

I hear you, but the fact is no changes to his godawful form have been made (at least publicly) to date and if you're going to shoot effectively with that hideous form it's going to take more than 300 jay's a day.

And, EH, it's more like range out to 5'. We're talking about a guy that shot under 30% from outside that range last year.


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## knicksfan

Diable said:


> I don't keep up with the ratings of 8th graders like some people do,but I understand that Doc's son is really highly rated among players his age...Assuming this isn't another son.It really doesn't surprise me that an 8th grader could outshoot Rondo.Steve Kerr was in the 8th grade once...And ROndo isn't Steve Kerr also.


I'm sure Steve Kerr couldn't shoot as well in the eighth grade as he could during the prime of his NBA career. That comment kinda struck me as off the wall.


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## E.H. Munro

Celtics_Fan said:


> It is a stretch to use this 250-280 figure, and say he's lazy and his attitude is bad and he has a sense of entitlement. He could be doing other things besides making 250-280 jumpers a day to improve, and shooting them in games is just another way. If he's working on form with Eastman, shooting jumpers in pickup games and training camps, and if he's knocking down 250-280 a day, it doesn't show laziness and a bad attitude, no matter what Tyrus Thomas says he's doing.


In the article where Rondo boasted about shooting 250-280 makes a day he also said that he was advised not to alter his form, but to get comfortable with it. So he isn't working on improving his form, and he isn't shooting the necessary makes. So, yes, like a a lot of Celtics fans I'm hoping that the much better shooting Pruitt busts *** to adapt to NBA level defense. Because when he can defend the one, and play D on the NBA level, he'll start carving into Rondo's time. And maybe Rondo will realise that he has to work his *** off if he wants to be a good NBA player.


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## Celtics_Fan

The Article actually says this: "The mechanics of that jump shot were broken down by Eastman, who worked with Rondo on catching the ball low and bringing it up high, and on developing 'perfect feet', which means establishing a uniform way to set up for a shot instead of sometimes having the feet close together and other times farther apart. Eastman has emphasized the need for Rondo to bring the ball out from behind his head on the release, and to aim for over the top of the rim, instead of directly at the rim."

It certainly does look like Eastman is targeting to make changes to Rondo's technique. You may be speaking about another article, perhaps? It doesn't say anything about being comfortable with his current form, but more about gaining confidence in his shot with better form.

So again, if he is working on his form on a daily basis, and making 250-280 on a daily basis, and shooting them exclusively in game situations on a daily basis, how does that come off as lazy and arrogant? On top of that, it has been written that he's studying tapes on his teammates and I am sure he will have to work on actually being the point guard of this team, running plays. Wouldn't Doc or even Eastman imply that he's lazy or unmotivated? It is a serious stretch to say he is just based on the number of 250-280 made jumpers a day. From everything available to us, the coaching staff loves him, and he does work hard to do what the coaching staff asks of him. If he was an unmotivated, lazy, and arrogant young player, Doc and Co. would have implied as such, Ainge would have addressed it by getting someone better than Eddie House, and I seriously doubt they'd depend on a rookie PG to replace him, especially someone that isn't ready for the NBA yet. He is working on becoming a good NBA player. Shooting jumpers alone won't make him a good NBA player overall, and shooting jumpers is not the only way he can help this team. Shooting 200-300 more jumpers a day would definitely be a good thing, but it's not the mark of laziness and arrogance because he isn't. For all we know, he could be increasing that number since August 8th.

Also, maybe I am looking in the wrong areas, but where does Tyrus Thomas say he is making 800 a day? Not that I doubt it was said (for the moment), I would like to read where it comes from, though. (Edit: I just found an ESPN article saying 700)


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## mrsister

Remember this thread? I wonder if anybody's changed their mind about Rondo. He's averaging 10.3 ppg on 50% shooting, and he seems to be getting even better. He still doesn't have a 3 point shot, but I think I'm ok with that. I actually don't think he should be taking threes. There's always a better option, and Rondo usually finds it. Rondo gets most of his points on layups, but I see nothing wrong with that. It's a higher percentage shot, and he's good at blowing past his man to get to the hoop. He can get in trouble sometimes if nothing's there, but that's not unique to Rondo. More often than not, he will make a good play.


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## Brandname

Rondo's shooting really impressed me yesterday. It was obvious our team had read the scouting report and were trying to take away the drive (unsuccessfully), but he killed us with a solid midrange shot.

At the beginning of the season, I was very curious how Rondo was going to handle his starting job. I've been really impressed so far, but I know I haven't seen as many of his games as most of you have.


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## Avalanche

He doesnt need a 3 ball with this team.. there is always Ray/Pierce/Posey/House out there with him so he doesnt need to be taking them.

50% shooting is fantastic, and he goes to the hoop with ease using his speed.... I think everyone has fallen in love with that fake-behind the back pass drive he does, i havnt seen it not fool the defender yet


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## Causeway

Since it will never be said, I will say it:

CAUSEWAY WAS RIGHT!


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## cgcatsfan

mrsister said:


> Remember this thread? I wonder if anybody's changed their mind about Rondo. He's averaging 10.3 ppg on 50% shooting, and he seems to be getting even better. He still doesn't have a 3 point shot, but I think I'm ok with that. I actually don't think he should be taking threes. There's always a better option, and Rondo usually finds it. Rondo gets most of his points on layups, but I see nothing wrong with that. It's a higher percentage shot, and he's good at blowing past his man to get to the hoop. He can get in trouble sometimes if nothing's there, but that's not unique to Rondo. More often than not, he will make a good play.


NOPE, I haven't changed my mind a bit. 
I said he was a steal when we got him, and I haven't changed my mind. :biggrin:


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## Celtics_Fan

It's a great thing that Rondo has improved and helped this team; more important than winning this argument--although I'm glad I did. 

I just hope Rondo continues his hard work and improvement.


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan

Causeway said:


> Since it will never be said, I will say it:
> 
> CAUSEWAY WAS RIGHT!





theres a first time for everything causeway :biggrin:


we miss you on these boards mah man


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## Avalanche

Nice to see him stepping up while KG is out, has been a big part of not letting things fall apart.

Came up in the dying minutes last night too


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## Causeway

#1AntoineWalkerFan said:


> theres a first time for everything causeway :biggrin:
> 
> 
> we miss you on these boards mah man


Thanks AW. Appreciate it. The good old days were fun.


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