# CSMN



## ABM (Dec 30, 2002)

Knowing what he knows now, Rice would have taken Luke Walton over Travis Outlaw - and, of course, Walton was a 2nd Rounder!

Rice likes Aldridge....a LOT.

However, would trade our 1st Rounder plus two or three more for a star type.


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## QRICH (Feb 2, 2004)

What did I miss? I tottally spaced out that CSMN was even on.

I wonder what "star" player he wants.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

saying that he wants to trade the pick for a "star" (or whatever) is about as empty a statement as humanly possible.

we'll be lucky to trade ANYONE on the team for an equal player.


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## ABM (Dec 30, 2002)

SMiLE said:


> saying that he wants to trade the pick for a "star" (or whatever) is about as empty a statement as humanly possible.
> 
> we'll be lucky to trade ANYONE on the team for an equal player.



Actually, in the context of the phone call, he indicated that he'd consider something like a Miles, Telfair, Outlaw and our 1st for a star type of 3.


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## It's_GO_Time (Oct 13, 2005)

ABM said:


> Knowing what he knows now, Rice would have taken Luke Walton over Travis Outlaw - and, of course, Walton was a 2nd Rounder!


 I don't know if that is a compliment for Walton or a dis on Outlaw.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

ABM said:


> Actually, in the context of the phone call, he indicated that he'd consider something like a Miles, Telfair, Outlaw and our 1st for a star type of 3.


like I said, thats not going to get you a player thats worth trading away telfair, outlaw AND the pick.


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## mgb (Jun 26, 2004)

Dang it! I forgot this was on again!


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## Kmurph (May 7, 2003)

> Actually, in the context of the phone call, he indicated that he'd consider something like a Miles, Telfair, Outlaw and our 1st for a star type of 3.


The stupidity of people never ceases to amaze me....

Who is POR going to get for that package? Hey, maybe Wally Sczerbiak is available....

I always assumed Rice wasn't working woth a full deck...but if he actually believes what you typed then he has lost it...


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## wastro (Dec 19, 2004)

mgb said:


> Dang it! I forgot this was on again!


Don't worry, you really didn't miss much Blazers talk. Nate basically said that everyone was coming back into town to work out players and prepare for the draft.

The crew spent a lot of time talking about the MVP race.

Personally, I crave CSMN every summer; even if there's not much going on, I still need my fix. I remember shortly after the draft last year, CSMN had Martell on, and I actually put off having dinner with a friend to listen to the interview. Granted, it was just him saying that he's happy, he expects to excel, he's excited about the team, etc ... but still, when you get to the warm summer months, every little bit helps, I guess.

Please tell me I'm not alone here.


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## ebott (Jan 7, 2003)

Two things

1. Did Rice have any reason for liking Aldridge so much? He had a crappy tournament and to my knowledge hasn't done anything useful in the mean time. What's the sudden appearl?

2. The only supposed big time players I've heard we might be able to get with the top pick Jermaine O'neal and Rashard Lewis. Any other ideas? Cause there aren't many all-stars up for grabs this summer. I say keep the pick.


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## deanwoof (Mar 10, 2003)

ABM said:


> Knowing what he knows now, Rice would have taken Luke Walton over Travis Outlaw - and, of course, Walton was a 2nd Rounder!
> 
> Rice likes Aldridge....a LOT.
> 
> However, would trade our 1st Rounder plus two or three more for a star type.


Luke Walton is so much better than Travis Outlaw in every department besides athleticism.


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## Utherhimo (Feb 20, 2005)

well it was the caller or emailer that said about the trading of the first pick the csmn guys said it would be unlikely to be able to trade for a star using the pick unless its number1.

as for wild rice like aldrdge i think he is begining to like bargnani but already has cast his vote for aldridge so cant back down.

I get the feeling that if we get the 1st pick we will trade it for another top for pick and a player I think they are almost set on bargnani it sounds like it.

big meeting on wednesday between allen and nate, kevin and nash just got back from europe would love to know what they have to say about what they saw.


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## barfo (Jan 2, 2003)

deanwoof said:


> Luke Walton is so much better than Travis Outlaw in every department besides athleticism.


No, Outlaw's dad is less of a dork than Walton's dad.

barfo


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## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

ebott said:


> Two things
> 
> 1. Did Rice have any reason for liking Aldridge so much? He had a crappy tournament and to my knowledge hasn't done anything useful in the mean time. What's the sudden appearl?
> 
> 2. The only supposed big time players I've heard we might be able to get with the top pick Jermaine O'neal and Rashard Lewis. Any other ideas? Cause there aren't many all-stars up for grabs this summer. I say keep the pick.



The "sudden" appeal of Aldridge is that he's 6'11", athletic, skilled, and has a frame to add weight to.


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## ebott (Jan 7, 2003)

mediocre man said:


> The "sudden" appeal of Aldridge is that he's 6'11", athletic, skilled, and has a frame to add weight to.


And he still got his *** handed to him by Tyrus Thomas in the tournament. Until there have been some workouts that Aldridge does something impressive in I'm going to say that the value in the draft is thus: Bargnani > Thomas > Aldridge.


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## endora60 (Jan 5, 2006)

barfo said:


> No, Outlaw's dad is less of a dork than Walton's dad.
> 
> barfo


I like Bill Walton. The guy's smart, opinionated, funny and he's forgotten more about the history of the NBA than 99% of people will ever know. He's just a lot of fun to listen to.

Besides, I've liked him since he was at UCLA. One of my all-time worst sports memories was watching Big Bill foul out against Notre Dame in his senior year, leading to the Irish finally breaking UCLA's huge winning streak. (Of course, my other worst sports memory was probably watching the Foolish Pleasure/Ruffian challenge race. , so it's all relative, I guess.....)

Anyway, Luke's got a very cool dad. Lucky kid.

Laurie


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## Kmurph (May 7, 2003)

> Bargnani > Thomas > Aldridge


and to expand that a little....

Morrison>Bargnani>Gay>Thomas>Aldridge


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## meru (Jul 2, 2003)

ABM said:


> Knowing what he knows now, Rice would have taken Luke Walton over Travis Outlaw - and, of course, Walton was a 2nd Rounder!


Just so long as he would've taken Leandro Barbosa over either of them, I'll forgive him.


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## sa1177 (Feb 18, 2005)

endora60 said:


> I like Bill Walton. The guy's smart, opinionated, funny and he's forgotten more about the history of the NBA than 99% of people will ever know. He's just a lot of fun to listen to.
> 
> Besides, I've liked him since he was at UCLA. One of my all-time worst sports memories was watching Big Bill foul out against Notre Dame in his senior year, leading to the Irish finally breaking UCLA's huge winning streak. (Of course, my other worst sports memory was probably watching the Foolish Pleasure/Ruffian challenge race. , so it's all relative, I guess.....)
> 
> ...


I like Bill to but I find him terrible to listen to.....he uses 27 adjectives to describe every player and some of the stuff he says is just plain idiotic. I love it when Snapper has to correct him when he says something stupid. The enjoy listening to him sometimes just to see what the next stupid thing he will say will be.


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## Utherhimo (Feb 20, 2005)

bargnani is young (than aldridge), has skills, 6'11, ability to add weight, quick first step, outside shooting, rebounding, team player, only a little lighter than aldridge. firey and is a nate style player


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## Masbee (Dec 31, 2002)

meru said:


> Just so long as he would've taken Leandro Barbosa over either of them, I'll forgive him.


Yeppy, yeppy. My fading memory tells me that Barbosa was the player left on the board I wanted us to take with that pick.

Barbosa is an NBAer, and would have been a solid choice for a #23 pick, but he is nothing special (so far).

I recall being dissappointed, but not angry, (Travis who??), at the pick. I figured the Blazers scouts were waaaaaay smarter than me as they had picked up Jermaine, Bonzi and Zach in recent drafts. And by their admission, they were swinging for the fences with that pick, same as with Woods.

Course, the best pick we could have made, by far, would have been Josh Howard, who was still on the board when we took Travis. How good is Josh Howard? He allowed Cuban to waive Michael Finley, saving $50 mil in lux tax costs, without harming the team.


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## mgb (Jun 26, 2004)

wastro said:


> Don't worry, you really didn't miss much Blazers talk. Nate basically said that everyone was coming back into town to work out players and prepare for the draft.


I just listen to Nate's part of the show on itunes and one thing is very obvious, Nate wants to trade the pick for a veteran player. He said he really hopes we get the #1 pick because then a lot more teams will call. 

I'll be disappointed if we don't use this pick and get one of the top players in the draft. Either Bangnani or Morrison or at least Aldridge. We have to think about the future not just right now. Unless we get one heck of a player or just move down a couple picks I hope we keep our draft pick. If we use it to get rid of MIles and a so so player I'd really be piss.

He did say we need to clear out some of the SFs so I doubt he'd want to add another one through the draft even if we get rid of a SF through a trade so I doubt we'll draft Morrison even if we do keep the draft pick. Don't know for sure of course but just got that feeling.


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## Utherhimo (Feb 20, 2005)

maybe he means trading down 1st to 4th 1st for 4th and a player he could be bluffing too dont forget the draft is about bluffing,


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## mgb (Jun 26, 2004)

Utherhimo said:


> maybe he means trading down 1st to 4th 1st for 4th and a player he could be bluffing too dont forget the draft is about bluffing,


I hope you are right.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

Masbee said:


> Yeppy, yeppy. My fading memory tells me that Barbosa was the player left on the board I wanted us to take with that pick.
> 
> Barbosa is an NBAer, and would have been a solid choice for a #23 pick, but he is nothing special (so far).
> 
> ...


I wanted Barbosa or Lampe... so I can't pat myself on the back too much.

At the time I was actually a bit ticked we picked Outlaw because we'd reportedly promised that we'd pick him, and when a player like Lampe or Barbosa slid to us, I didn't want us to draft based on some promise to a prep player.

On the larger topic: it's still too late to give up on Travis, and Walton isn't a difference-maker in the NBA. Outlaw probably will never emerge as one, but he's still got a chance and we need difference-makers more than we need Luke Waltons at this point.

Ed O.


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## barfo (Jan 2, 2003)

Ed O said:


> On the larger topic: it's still too late to give up on Travis


Let's see... we need to give up on him in the morning? The time to give up on him has passed and now we are stuck with him forever, so get used to it? Typo?

barfo


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## Verro (Jul 4, 2005)

mgb said:


> I'll be disappointed if we don't use this pick and get one of the top players in the draft. Either Bangnani or Morrison or at least Aldridge. We have to think about the future not just right now. Unless we get one heck of a player or just move down a couple picks I hope we keep our draft pick. If we use it to get rid of MIles and a so so player I'd really be piss.



I couldn't agree more, in fact I'd still be disappointed if we got a star quality player who was over 27.

If we're going to trade away major assets like high lottery picks, we need to acquire players who will be in their prime 3 years from now with several good season ahead of them. Not players who will be approaching retirement once we're ready to compete.

Coaches probably shouldn't be given too much influence in a team's rebuilding process, they're so pressured to get immediate results that they're incapable of seeing the big picture.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Utherhimo said:


> bargnani is young (than aldridge), has skills, 6'11, ability to add weight, quick first step, outside shooting, rebounding, team player, only a little lighter than aldridge. firey and is a nate style player


So Nate likes 7'0" who play on the wing and don't play much defense at all?...


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## CanJohno (Feb 11, 2005)

zagsfan20 said:


> So Nate likes 7'0" who play on the wing and don't play much defense at all?...


Moreso than a "[6'9" guy] who play on the wing and [doesn't] play [ANY] defense at all?" Yeah, I'd imagine he does.


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## Backboard Cam (Apr 29, 2003)

Ed O said:


> it's still too late to give up on Travis


It's too late to trade Outlaw for Walton.


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## Utherhimo (Feb 20, 2005)

CanJohno said:


> Moreso than a "[6'9" guy] who play on the wing and [doesn't] play [ANY] defense at all"? Yeah, I'd imagine he does.





lol


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## hasoos (Jan 3, 2003)

ebott said:


> And he still got his *** handed to him by Tyrus Thomas in the tournament. Until there have been some workouts that Aldridge does something impressive in I'm going to say that the value in the draft is thus: Bargnani > Thomas > Aldridge.


I am not sure what game you were watching but it was actually more of Glenn Davis giving Aldridge problems..Tyrus Thomas had his moments too, but they were double teaming Aldridge a lot. 

Secondly, I don't know what your talking about "Poor Tourney". The only poor game he really had was against LSU. I guess 26 points and 13 rebounds against WVA sucks. So does 10 points and 8 boards in a blowout against NC State. Or the 19 point 10 rebound effort against Penn. 

Lastly, Lemarcus Aldridge went up against Chris Bosh at least 2 times when they were in high school, and came out on top both times. Bosh is the same type of player, who had the same type of problems Lemarcus had when he came into the league. Skinny. Tall. Mostly Outside game. Amazingly enough he didn't make the NCAA finals either, like most of the NBA draft. Look at him now.


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## NeTs15VC (Aug 16, 2005)

I cant believe that.


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## ebott (Jan 7, 2003)

hasoos said:


> I am not sure what game you were watching but it was actually more of Glenn Davis giving Aldridge problems..Tyrus Thomas had his moments too, but they were double teaming Aldridge a lot.


That's a good point in that LSU had two big men to take on Aldridge and Aldridge did not have much support. But from what I saw the reason he was waxed so badly in that game is that he was out worked rather than outplayed. He just didn't seem to have the intensity you thought he would. 

I'd like to re-watch that game. I'd bet my post game draft related thoughts have colored the way that I view how well people did in those games.



> Secondly, I don't know what your talking about "Poor Tourney". The only poor game he really had was against LSU. I guess 26 points and 13 rebounds against WVA sucks. So does 10 points and 8 boards in a blowout against NC State. Or the 19 point 10 rebound effort against Penn.
> 
> Lastly, Lemarcus Aldridge went up against Chris Bosh at least 2 times when they were in high school, and came out on top both times. Bosh is the same type of player, who had the same type of problems Lemarcus had when he came into the league. Skinny. Tall. Mostly Outside game. Amazingly enough he didn't make the NCAA finals either, like most of the NBA draft. Look at him now.


But my problem with Aldridge is not his ability to do well in any one specific situation. It's his overall approach to the game. He seems to be some what lazy on the court and from what little I know he isn't much better off the court. He's got a lot going for him but if he doesn't come into the league and work hard he's going to be a lot more like Kwame Brown than Chris Bosh.

If it weren't for that specific worry Aldridge would be the obvious #1 pick. Similar to Yao Ming, Chris Webber, Tim Duncan and Kenyon Martin in previous weak draft classes. You hope you're getting a Tim Duncan with the top pick but the NBA draft just isn't that reliable.

Today he's on the top of my list. But we'll see what cosmic sign I get that makes me go back to Bargnani, Thomas or Morrison tomorrow. God I hate waiting for the draft.


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## CanJohno (Feb 11, 2005)

NeTs15VC said:


> I cant believe that.


Believe what--that it's not butter? I can assure you, it's not. :biggrin:


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## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

zagsfan20 said:


> So Nate likes 7'0" who play on the wing and don't play much defense at all?...


Gonzaga English?


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## CanJohno (Feb 11, 2005)

Fork said:


> Gonzaga English?


"Mommy, I ate fire ants... they taste like burning!"


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## Kmurph (May 7, 2003)

> The only poor game he really had was against LSU.


Come on Hasoos, what about the rest of the crappy games he had throughout the year?

He scored only 5pts vs LSU's Thomas and Davis
He scored 4pts vs Kansas' front line
He scored 9pts and 5pts respectively vs Texas A&M
He scored 12pts vs Memphis
He scored 9pts vs Oklahoma State

He had 21 pts in a 31pt loss at home to Duke & Shelden Williams but the majority of the points he scored were in garbage time

We are talking about a #1 pick here, and this is a guy who plays soft, can be outmuscled by aggressive post players and nuetralized by athleticism & who doesn't demand the ball, or apparently show any inclination to take matters into his own hands...

I think he will be a mediorce NBA player...Joe Smith like....Yeah he is there, and he is servicable but don't expect him to be a difference maker...

Tyrus Thomas WAS a difference maker in college, and that was just on the defensive end...The question is whether or not he can be in the NBA...IMO chances are better for him than Aldridge...


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

CanJohno said:


> Moreso than a "[6'9" guy] who play on the wing and [doesn't] play [ANY] defense at all?" Yeah, I'd imagine he does.




I never said that Morrison was a Nate type of player...

But certainly if someone's going to imply that Bargnani is a Nate type of guy its far from the truth.


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## Utherhimo (Feb 20, 2005)

how would you know if bargnani isnt nate's type of player?


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## hasoos (Jan 3, 2003)

Kmurph said:


> Come on Hasoos, what about the rest of the crappy games he had throughout the year?
> 
> He scored only 5pts vs LSU's Thomas and Davis
> He scored 4pts vs Kansas' front line
> ...


Sometimes its hard to take the game into your hands when the GUARDS WON'T PASS YOU THE BALL. It was a problem all year in Texas, and a problem in every single one of their losses. 

Secondly, now that you want to play the how did he perform all year game and picked out all of his poor performances, how about checking out how many of them were positive instead of just measuring the negative to skew your post. When I referenced the tourney wins up above I did it as a counterpoint to the previous post. Now here you go again making the same type of post, which is the "I'll show only negative stuff to make him look like crap." post. 


Here is the link to his stats

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=22514

Also note he is only in his second year of college, and the massive improvement from year 1 to year 2. He rebounds AND blocks shots. In a majority of the games he was a force. 

So now compare him to some other guys statistics in their final year of college

Chris Bosh
COLLEGE CAREER SHOOTING STATS 
Season TEAM G MIN FG FGA FG% FG3 FG3A FG3% FT FTA FT% PTS AVG 
2002-03 Georgia Tech 31 960 168 300 56.0 22 46 47.8 127 174 73.0 485 15.6 
TOTAL 31 960 168 300 56.0 22 46 47.8 127 174 73.0 485 15.6 


MORE COLLEGE STATS 
Season TEAM G MIN REB RAVG A AAVG STL SAVG BLK BAVG TO 
2002-03 Georgia Tech 31 960 0.0 38 1.2 30 1.0 67 2.2 72 
TOTAL 31 960 0 0.0 38 1.2 30 1.0 67 2.2 72 

Now I will compare him to somebody we all know a little bit better. Rasheed Wallace.

Rasheed Wallace, North Carolina, 6-11, C/F

G MIN FG FGA 3P 3PA FT FTA REB PF AST TO BLK STL PTS
93-94 N Carolina 35 732 139 230 0 1 55 91 232 81 18 49 63 24 333
94-95 N Carolina 34 1030 238 364 1 3 89 141 279 95 35 52 93 17 566
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS 69 1762 377 594 1 4 144 232 511 176 53 101 156 41 899

MIN FG% 3P% FT% RPG APG TPG BPG SPG PPG
93-94 N Carolina 20.9 60.4 0.0 60.4 6.6 0.5 1.4 1.8 0.7 9.5
94-95 N Carolina 30.3 65.4 33.3 63.1 8.2 1.0 1.5 2.7 0.5 16.6
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS 25.5 63.5 25.0 62.1 7.4 0.8 1.5 2.3 0.6 13.0

Amazing how those numbers look similar. Even the freshman to sophomore improvement looks similar. 

Note Wallace lost in the final 4 too. Amazing how it didn't shape his whole career isn't it? :clown: 

So go ahead and tread on the negatives if you wish. There are a few players in this draft that you could probably take and its a crap shoot as to who will turn out better, you could take any one of the 3 and not look back and hope you did your best. I think Aldridge easily has as good as chance as any of becoming a worthy high end lotto draft pick, and he brings to the table what the team has been misssing (rebounding, defense) along with the scoring the team really needs. 

Bargianni might bring the same things to the table, with even more range, but unfortunately less inside game. I prefer a strong inside game over outside game, and this year in the playoffs with Phoenix struggling against teams with a strong inside game shows why. I don't think that it would bother me if he was drafted either. :clown:


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## Kmurph (May 7, 2003)

> Also note he is only in his second year of college, and the massive improvement from year 1 to year 2.


He was injured much of his 1st year and only played 16 games and averaged 22min
and I would hope he would show improvement, especially if he is a #1 pick...



> He rebounds AND blocks shots. In a majority of the games he was a force.


I think you are missing the bigger point here...Yeah, he was a force against Louisiana -Monroe, Texas-Pan American, Texas State, PVA&M (???) & Baylor...

He had a FEW good games against some mediocre\good teams like Oklahoma, West Virginia, Villanova & Texas Tech...two of those teams who had decent college post players (Oklahoma-Taj Gray & WV - Pittsnogle), but to categorize that he was a force in the majority of his games is a little disingenuous, don't you think?

Compare that to teams where he was a COMPLETE non factor, LSU(4pts), Kansas(5pts), NC State (10pts), Texas A&M (5pts & 9pts)...

Which teams are better? 

BTW...how in the heck did he play 27minutes and only get TWO points vs Baylor?



> Sometimes its hard to take the game into your hands when the GUARDS WON'T PASS YOU THE BALL. It was a problem all year in Texas, and a problem in every single one of their losses.


That is b.s....and while I partially agree with the statement that the Texas guards didn't pass to\utilize Aldridge as much as they should have, the bigger question is...Where exactly was Aldridge? Why wasn't he demanding the ball...How does he, as CLEARLY the team's best player...only manage 5 shots in a loss to Kansas? 5 shots in a loss to Tennessee? 5 shots in a loss to Texas A&M...7 shots in a loss to Oklahoma State?...See a trend here?

He is soft...he dissapears in big games...he can be outmuscled and neutralized by athletic players...You can blame his TEAMATES all you want, but at some point, doesn't the team's best player (by far) NEED to step up when his team needs him most?


As for player comparisons...What Chris Bosh or Rasheed Wallace did in college hold little weight IMO....I am sure we could agree that we could dredge up some players who had great college careers\stats...but flopped in the NBA...

At some point you have to take a good long look at how they guy played in the games he was in...How did he perform when it mattered most? and Aldridge dissapeared and floated a lot, and had a real disturbing trend of completely dissapearing in the games Texas lost IMO....

He will be a ok pro IMO, and I stand by my Joe Smith "impact" comparison...solid and unspectacular...and I DO think there are better NBA "impact" players than him in this draft...He is the easy out choice, but not the correct one for POR IMO...


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## hasoos (Jan 3, 2003)

This shows you are missing the point. What I was showing with Rasheed and Bosh was exactly that...they were guy in college with similar stat lines who got knocked out of the tourney in a similar fashion. The tourney is not everything. If you judge players by only their tourney play you are bound to be dissappointed, as only one team wins the tourney, and a majority of the time that team does not have the best player to draft for the #1 pick in the NBA. Wallace was famous for showing up for one game and disappearing in games where he should not. The same with Bosh. What you are failing to understand is that big guys, especially early in their career, do not realize they need to work to establish position and they need to work harder because they can't just fall back on the size of their frame. Even Shaq in his early days did not do a good job establishing position and asking for the ball.

Yes you can find players with good stat lines that are similar which did not do well in the NBA and were high draft picks. Your Joe Smith you mentioned was one. The thing is, I don't see a lot of similarities in Joe Smiths game, as compared to the players listed up above. Joe Smith has no range to speak of. Joe Smith has no back to the basket game. Joe Smith is not a good shot blocker. The guys I mentioned above, correllate in those areas. The real question is, does Aldridge have the speed that those players have. That is the only question in my mind, and until he goes up against some NBA speed competition, we may not know.


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## Kmurph (May 7, 2003)

Well we disagree...But I would add that it just isn't his tourney play that is being judged here....In big games vs better teams he was a non factor...Personally, I find that to be a very disturbing trend...especially for a kid POR would supposedly be looking at drafting as the #1 overall pick...


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## Reep (Jun 4, 2003)

I was down on Aldridge for the reasons stated (disappeared in 5-10% of games). But, when I looked at the stat line for each game, several of his bad games also show that he was in foul trouble. I didn't watch any of those games, but the games where he was not in foul trouble he had pretty good numbers. I guess I'm saying that not all of his bad games were because of lack of effort, but maybe reduced effort to try and stay in the game v. fouling out. If you subtract out the high foul games (he's young, he'll learn to manage this) then he had very few really bad games. But the Aggies sure did own him.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

barfo said:


> Let's see... we need to give up on him in the morning? The time to give up on him has passed and now we are stuck with him forever, so get used to it? Typo?


Yes 

It's still too *early* to give up on Travis.

Ed O.


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