# Francis or Nelson?



## Mr. Hobbes (Jul 1, 2005)

Ok, I haven't seen any polls like this yet, and I want to know who would you guys want- Francis or Nelson.

*Question: Who would you want on the Orlando Magic? * 

(Steve Francis cannot play SG, and this assumes one of them has to start, and the other has to go)


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## kamego (Dec 29, 2003)

I took Nelson here just because I don't believe Francis can lead a team to victory. The only SG his size is AI and he doesn't have the heart or hustle AI has to make it work.


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## Enigma (Jul 16, 2002)

kamego said:


> I took Nelson here just because I don't believe Francis can lead a team to victory. The only SG his size is AI and he doesn't have the heart or hustle AI has to make it work.


Francis has three or four inches on AI. He also has plenty of heart and hustle, he's right up there with Iverson in that category. Steve's problem centers around his poor basketball IQ and his sense of primacy.


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## Chalie Boy (Aug 26, 2002)

My question is if DAVID FREAKIN WESLEY can play SG, then why can't Stevie?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## orlmagicmnvikings (Jun 16, 2005)

Are you kidding me? Everyone would have to pick Francis! There is no denying that Jameer has alot of talent but as of right now Jameer's talent is nowhere near Steve-O's. I hope we start Jameer at PG, Francis at SG, Hill at SF, Howard at PF, and Battie/Cato/DeClerq at C


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## patrick_wandalowski (Aug 5, 2003)

francis is the greater talent; nelson is the better teammate and leader.


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## Mr. Hobbes (Jul 1, 2005)

Oh, I voted Francis from what I've seen- I like the Francis-Howard running game


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## Bron_Melo_ROY (Apr 12, 2004)

Chalie Boy said:


> My question is if DAVID FREAKIN WESLEY can play SG, then why can't Stevie?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Because DAVID FREAKIN WESLEY can shoot the ball.


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## Mr. Hobbes (Jul 1, 2005)

Francis likes to dribble too much to be SG- he also isn't a good enough shooter.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

I definitely think Jameer is worth keeping, and Francis is not worth keeping. 

If we're going to be bad this year (I suspect we will) I hope we stumble out of the gates and the Magic look to move Francis for expiring contracts/picks as soon as possible to completely rebuild around Howard, Nelson and Vazquez. If the Magic could pull off a deal like that they'd have over $35 million coming off the books this summer. They'd probably have enough money to sign a FA to a max contract. Dwight, Jameer, Vazquez, Hill, Turkoglu, 2006 Lottery pick (assuming we suck), AND a max contract worthy FA. The Magic could be very good as soon as 2007 if they let Dwight develop this year and are willing to take a lot in the L column as a result. Pull a 2003-2004 Phoenix Suns by trading away their All-Star, ball dominating PG to make cap room, suck that year and let their big man out of High School with one year of pro experience develop into a star (happened with Amare, will happen with Dwight if they let him) use their cap space wisely, and bam...you have the 2004-2005 Phoenix Suns. It's not quite that easy for the Magic, but it's a route I think is very possible for them to try and take. I would love to see this all play out this season, as a fan of the Magic. Obviously the Magic don't like losing and neither do I, but I don't like cheering for a team that's always mediocre. The Magic need to go for the gold because they have Dwight Howard, and try to build a championship caliber team ASAP. They have the assets to put a nice team around him, it's just a matter of doing it.

Sorry for the rant that really doesn't have much to do with the topic, just a general post on my thoughts for the future of this franchise.


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## Carbo04 (Apr 15, 2005)

Franchise.

Although I do like Nelson.


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## Bron_Melo_ROY (Apr 12, 2004)

Nelson.


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## Chalie Boy (Aug 26, 2002)

Bron_Melo_ROY said:


> Because DAVID FREAKIN WESLEY can shoot the ball.


Smart guy eh? I'm not purley a stats guy and I LOVE Iverson BUT just something to look at...

Steve Francis career 43% fg 34% 3fg 21.3 ppg
Allen Iverson carrer 41.8% fg 30% 3fg 27.4 ppg
David Wesley carrer 42.6% fg 37% 3fg 13.1 ppg

Why can't Stevie play Sg?


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## Bron_Melo_ROY (Apr 12, 2004)

So you're saying Steve Francis is the best shooter out of the 3 you listed.


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## Chalie Boy (Aug 26, 2002)

Bron_Melo_ROY said:


> So you're saying Steve Francis is the best shooter out of the 3 you listed.


No thats not what I am saying, what I AM saying is there is really no proof to this "Francis can't shoot" non-sense if he can't shoot over half of the SHOOTING guards in the NBA can't


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## FanOfAll8472 (Jun 28, 2003)

Chalie Boy said:


> Smart guy eh? I'm not purley a stats guy and I LOVE Iverson BUT just something to look at...
> 
> Steve Francis career 43% fg 34% 3fg 21.3 ppg
> Allen Iverson carrer 41.8% fg 30% 3fg 27.4 ppg
> ...


 I don't think it's really a matter of shooting or height, but more of playing style. Somebody like Marbury can play some off-guard minutes because he's good at running a curl and shooting the ball. Francis isn't. Francis isn't a catch-and-shoot or an off-ball player. He's much more effective, IMO, when he has the ball in his hands and can use his dribble penetration.


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## Bron_Melo_ROY (Apr 12, 2004)

Chalie Boy said:


> No thats not what I am saying, what I AM saying is there is really no proof to this "Francis can't shoot" non-sense if he can't shoot over half of the SHOOTING guards in the NBA can't


Watch some games. He gets a lot of close range baskets but when you watch his games it seems like he misses almost every shot.


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## Mr. Hobbes (Jul 1, 2005)

Starting Francis at SG caused the Magic to lose more games in the 2nd half of the season, while they did fine with Francis at PG during the first half. Whammy.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

WTChan said:


> Starting Francis at SG caused the Magic to lose more games in the 2nd half of the season, while they did fine with Francis at PG during the first half. Whammy.



Seems that way but it isn't that simple. The Mobley trade was a huge hit to Orlando because they traded a 15+ ppg scorer for a guy who came over, did little, then got injured for the season. 

Also, one of the main reasons of success most didn't recognize at the beginning of the year was Kelvin Cato was playing like a beast down low. At some point in the season he went down with another shoulder injury and was never the same after that.

And Hedo and Grant Hill also had the injury during the latter half of the season. So it wasn't all about Francis going to SG.


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## Mr. Hobbes (Jul 1, 2005)

Good point, I forgot about that trade. How was Nelson's performance during the first half of the season?


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## DH12 (Jun 22, 2005)

WTChan said:


> Good point, I forgot about that trade. How was Nelson's performance during the first half of the season?


Didn't get enough minutes to make an impact.


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## Chalie Boy (Aug 26, 2002)

Bron_Melo_ROY said:


> Watch some games. He gets a lot of close range baskets but when you watch his games it seems like he misses almost every shot.


I'll admit that I didn't see many Magic games this year, but I DID see him in Houston and he is a better shooter than he is getting credit for right now...


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## heat or pacers n 06 (Jul 26, 2005)

hi im a new poster here. I would say Nelson is better in the long run but for now Francis I wish they still had T-Mac. I think They need to get a good center to so it can get steve open


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

Bron_Melo_ROY said:


> Watch some games. He gets a lot of close range baskets but when you watch his games it seems like he misses almost every shot.



I wouldn't go that far. He is not a good outside shooter (3pt range) but he is pretty decent midrange. Streaky, but when he gets hot he can hit many in a row.


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## goodseats (Jul 19, 2005)

he is just a turnover machine who is lucky to keep the ball long enough to get a shot off. i think thats why he takes a lot of shots early into the shot colck, because he knows its his only chance.

with that in mind, i think he will do a nice job at the 2 spot.


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## James_Posey (Jul 31, 2005)

I agree with goodseats.


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## Zuca (Dec 4, 2003)

if you want to trade Francis to clear some salaries, you can try to work a trade with Dallas:

Francis, Garrity and Christie for Van Horn, Terry and Abdul-Wahad

or you can include Philadelphia in this deal and replace Tariq with Aaron Mckie...

Terry is more of a two guard than Francis, and is a good PG too, with a expiring contract; Van Horn have a big expiring contract and can play both forward positions, is a good player. Mckie is an experienced SG (Tariq is more of a defensive SF)


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

Zuca said:


> if you want to trade Francis to clear some salaries, you can try to work a trade with Dallas:
> 
> Francis, Garrity and Christie for Van Horn, Terry and Abdul-Wahad
> 
> ...



I honestly don't see us trading Francis just to clear salaries. He is too valuable to do that. Plus, having cap space these days just seems to be a guarantee you are going to end up overpaying for a marginal player, unless you get lucky.


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## goodseats (Jul 19, 2005)

even if we decide that we should try to dump salary and cut him, we will need to get something back in return. keith van horn should not even be mentioned as anybody that should come to this team. he is a lop.


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## Mr. Hobbes (Jul 1, 2005)

How bout this year?


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