# TWITTER: Lin officially to Houston Rockets; Knicks Decline to Match Offer



## Ron (May 8, 2002)

Per Twitter:



> Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA
> 
> Houston's multi-year offer to Jeremy Lin includes back-loaded money designed to hit the Knicks hard on luxury tax, source tells Y!


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## Ron (May 8, 2002)

*Re: REPORT: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison PIll for NY to match*

Back-loaded for the Knicks to swallow poison pill on the luxury tax, eh?

Didn't know the Rockets wanted to **** the Knicks all along. :laugh:

Ah, the wonders of the CBA.


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## doctordrizzay (May 10, 2011)

*Re: REPORT: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison PIll for NY to match*

Haha wow, Dallas and Knicks are getting so screwed this F.A.


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## 29380 (Feb 23, 2009)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*

James Dolan laughs at luxury tax.

The only people getting **** are the fans that buy tickets.


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## NOFX22 (Sep 28, 2006)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*

I wonder where Lowry going to go now? How abut batum for Lowry


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## Laker Freak (Jul 1, 2003)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*

Knicks should offer Lin the same deal but have it front loaded. I assume Lin would prefer get his money now instead of waiting 2 years for it.


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## 29380 (Feb 23, 2009)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*



Laker Freak said:


> Knicks should offer Lin the same deal but have it front loaded. I assume Lin would prefer get his money now instead of waiting 2 years for it.


It does not work like that the only way he can get that type of many is if it's back loaded, also the Knicks can't give him that type of contract they can only match what other teams give him.


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## Ron (May 8, 2002)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*



Knicks4life said:


> James Dolan laughs at luxury tax.
> 
> The only people getting **** are the fans that buy tickets.


You do realize that the luxury tax under the new CBA is going to be almost 5 times the amount over the ceiling threshold in later years?

Imagine being $20 million over the luxury tax and then having to fork over almost $100 million to David Stern and his cronies every year. Even Dolan will feel it in his ass if he has to do that.


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*

I wonder if the Rockets are thinking about all of Yao's homeboys when they make this move. I don't know how that impacts them financially, but they must have a great many fans in the People's Republic.


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## 29380 (Feb 23, 2009)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*



Ron said:


> You do realize that the luxury tax under the new CBA is going to be almost 5 times the amount over the ceiling threshold in later years?
> 
> Imagine being $20 million over the luxury tax and then having to fork over almost $100 million to David Stern and his cronies every year. Even Dolan will feel it in his ass if he has to do that.


Thats the repeater rate and the Knicks don't have to worry about that because they were not over the Luxury tax last year, they only have to worry about that in 2016 when most of their salaries will be off the books.


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## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*



Diable said:


> I wonder if the Rockets are thinking about all of Yao's homeboys when they make this move. I don't know how that impacts them financially, but they must have a great many fans in the People's Republic.


while i'm sure that doesn't hurt, it probably has more to do with lowry wanting out and not coming to terms with dragic. lin makes a lot of basketball sense to be the next option in free agency.


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## kbdullah (Jul 8, 2010)

*Re: REPORT: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison PIll for NY to match*



doctordrizzay said:


> Haha wow, Dallas and Knicks are getting so screwed this F.A.


Aren't the Knicks pursuing Felton now? Plus they have Lin's rights. Dallas, though, yes, is screwed.


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## 29380 (Feb 23, 2009)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*



> HowardBeckNYT
> The Rockets have agreed to terms with Jeremy Lin, who intends to sign offer sheet, according to person briefed on talks. Terms unknown.


...


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## TucsonClip (Sep 2, 2002)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*

Yeah, Dolan could care less. Look at how many years hes been paying the luxury tax. Marketing Lin will pay for his contract, easily. It wont cover the tax penalty, but again I doubt Dolan cares that much.


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## 29380 (Feb 23, 2009)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*



> WojYahooNBA Lin offer sheet will be a three year deal, with team option for the fourth, league source tells Y!





> Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA
> Lin's deal will be worth $9.3M "poison pill" third year of deal, league source tells Y!





> Offer sheet for Lin will pay him $5M in year one, $5.2M in year two and $9.3M in years three and again in team option year four, source says.


...


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## 29380 (Feb 23, 2009)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*

This is pretty much the same deal Landry Fields got from the Raptors but with a team option for a 4th year.


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*

How much is the 4th year? It seems like it'd be around 6, but who knows.


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## 29380 (Feb 23, 2009)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*



Diable said:


> How much is the 4th year?


$9.2 million


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## kbdullah (Jul 8, 2010)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*

Knicks should match just to force the Rockets into a sign-and-trade. Rockets can hand over some depth to replace Fields, and maybe even get a pick or something out of it too. Knicks could then continue by signing Felton, with Kidd backing up. That's the best move forward for the Knicks IMO.


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## 29380 (Feb 23, 2009)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*

Can't sign and trade Lin.


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## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*

Nine million for a decent starter isn't much of a poison pill. Considering the extra revenue that Lin brings in, I'd be surprised if the Knicks have to think too long about this.


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## Ron (May 8, 2002)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*



> Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA
> Lin's deal will be worth $9.3M "poison pill" third year of deal, league source tells Y!





Knicks4life said:


> ...


Ha ha, looks like Woj reads basketballforum.com, claiming our label "poison pill" as his own. Come on AW, admit it...you took it from us.


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## Ron (May 8, 2002)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*



Bogg said:


> Nine million for a decent starter isn't much of a poison pill. Considering the extra revenue that Lin brings in, I'd be surprised if the Knicks have to think too long about this.


It's called gamesmanship. True, while it might not bother Dolan all that much, Houston is making a statement to the Knicks...plus they are rolling the dice. Maybe the Knicks don't pick up the contract...you never know, might as well toss those dice.


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## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*



Ron said:


> Ha ha, looks like Woj reads basketballforum.com, claiming our label "poison pill" as his own. Come on AW, admit it...you took it from us.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poison_pill


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## 29380 (Feb 23, 2009)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*


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## gi0rdun (May 31, 2007)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*

Knicks would be dumb not to match.


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## Ron (May 8, 2002)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*



gi0rdun said:


> Knicks would be dumb not to match.


They will match, no doubt about it, and pay the luxury tax if they still have him in years 3 and 4, but I don't know if Lin is a long-term solution to what ails the Knicks.


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## Coatesvillain (Jul 17, 2002)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*

Honestly, Lin isn't worth this much fuss. If I'm the Knicks I'd let him go and opt for Felton.


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## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*



Coatesvillain said:


> Honestly, Lin isn't worth this much fuss. If I'm the Knicks I'd let him go and opt for Felton.


Felton very possibly could be the better player.


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## Dee-Zy (Jan 12, 2006)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*

Don't think so. Lin is still young.


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## Coatesvillain (Jul 17, 2002)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*



RollWithEm said:


> Felton very possibly could be the better player.


I agree. Also he'll come a lot cheaper.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*



Coatesvillain said:


> RollWithEm said:
> 
> 
> > Coatesvillain said:
> ...


There's more to the calculation than merely salary. Performancewise Felton looked cooked last year. Now maybe the schedule was too much for him and he'll look better this year by getting himself into shape over the summer. But there isn't any clear indication to me that Felton is going to bring anything to the court that Lin isn't. 

So that leaves us with the financial calculus, and there I think Lin's a lot more valuable to New York. Not simply in terms of corporate sponsorships from the far east, but also in terms of merchandise sales in building. I suspect that Felton would need to be a vet minimum signing to make the Knicks more money than they would with Lin over the next three years.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*

Felton won't sell jerseys though, so Lin is going nowhere.


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## LA68 (Apr 3, 2004)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*

A player young as Felton who already doesn't stay in shape it will only get worse from here. And last year he couldn't shoot either. Of course Lin hasn't proven he can play a full season as starter. 

Its the Knicks, always some drama on broadway.


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*

Lin is probably an mle type of a player, but we haven't seen enough to know that. It sure doesn't seem like he did enough to merit this. Of course it seems to be more about what he can do to the bottom line than what he can do on the floor.


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## c_dog (Sep 15, 2002)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*

you can tell just from people commenting on how how felton "is cheaper" that some people here never figured out the basic economics of society. felton won't come much cheaper than lin's contract, and he certainly won't make even 1/3 of the revenue that lin generates. lin has been selling out stadiums all over the country(and yes ppl wanted lin, not amare, not carmelo anthony cuz this happened even while they were injured). lin was #2 is jersey sales that year, and that doesn't include the merchandise. the decision to match is just too easy.


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## Coatesvillain (Jul 17, 2002)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*

I don't know I thought we were talking about basketball and winning. Apparently other things override that.

But it's the Knicks the most overblown "important" franchise in all of sports. So I can see why they'd make a move like this because that's what they do.


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*

Felton as knick playing for D'Antoni might have been decent but that guy hasnt been seen in 2 years - he's apparently been replaced by a fat kid who would rather be spending time on his couch playing on his ps3


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## Ron (May 8, 2002)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*



Coatesvillain said:


> I don't know I thought we were talking about basketball and winning. Apparently other things override that.
> 
> But it's the Knicks the most overblown "important" franchise in all of sports. So I can see why they'd make a move like this because that's what they do.


They also don't win championships. It's been 39 years.

They will never learn. They bring in aging superstars like Jason Kidd well past his prime. They bring in Carmelo Anthony, who can light it up but can't play any defense and won't share the rock. They bring in Amar'e Stoudemire, a big man who is still trying to grab his first rebound.

All of their moves seem to be about star power, and not about actually WINNING something.


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## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*



Coatesvillain said:


> I don't know I thought we were talking about basketball and winning. Apparently other things override that.
> 
> But it's the Knicks the most overblown "important" franchise in all of sports. So I can see why they'd make a move like this because that's what they do.


To be fair, Jeremy Lin is a better basketball player than Ray Felton at this point.


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## Coatesvillain (Jul 17, 2002)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*

I don't even know if we can say that. Lin without D'Antoni wasn't the same as he was with him.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*

Unless Felton drastically improves over last year, even with the injury it's a safe bet that Lin is better. And it's not because he's a wunderkind but because Ray Felton sucks like Paris Hilton after a night of tequila shooters.


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## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*



Coatesvillain said:


> I don't even know if we can say that. Lin without D'Antoni wasn't the same as he was with him.


Ray Felton without D'Antoni is good for 11 and 6 on iffy percentages, and that's assuming he isn't the fat kid who led the locker room mutiny in Portland when he shows up next year. In seven years he's had a half-season of 17 and 9 ball, let's not start pretending like that's the guy he is now.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*

Any team would be moronic not to match that offer for Lin for reasons completely unrelated to basketball. The amount of revenue that he is going to bring to that franchise by virtue of being Asian is staggering.

He's not that great of a player though. He's solid, but anyone who thinks he has an all star future ahead of him (in terms of impact, not chinese people voting him in) is a fool.

And that's actually my biggest problem with Lin. I like the kid. He seems humble and I am happy that he has been given a chance to show that he belongs in this league. But watching every single Asian fan blow him constantly, whether it be on this site or elsewhere, is ****ing obnoxious. I'm white, we don't have a lot of superstars in this league, but you don't see me fawning over every single white dude that can play just because he's white. With Yao I tolerated it because Yao was actually a franchise player when healthy, but Lin is an average to slightly above average starter and will be for the rest of his career. But he probably won't miss an all star game for the next 10 years and I'm going to be stuck hearing about how incredible he is the entire time.


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## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*



Luke said:


> you don't see me fawning over every single white dude that can play just because he's white



My good buddies Dennis and Isiah think you're a silly person.


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## Laker Freak (Jul 1, 2003)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*



Luke said:


> Any team would be moronic not to match that offer for Lin for reasons completely unrelated to basketball. The amount of revenue that he is going to bring to that franchise by virtue of being Asian is staggering.
> 
> He's not that great of a player though. He's solid, but anyone who thinks he has an all star future ahead of him (in terms of impact, not chinese people voting him in) is a fool.
> 
> And that's actually my biggest problem with Lin. I like the kid. He seems humble and I am happy that he has been given a chance to show that he belongs in this league. But watching every single Asian fan blow him constantly, whether it be on this site or elsewhere, is ****ing obnoxious. I'm white, we don't have a lot of superstars in this league, but you don't see me fawning over every single white dude that can play just because he's white. With Yao I tolerated it because Yao was actually a franchise player when healthy, but Lin is an average to slightly above average starter and will be for the rest of his career. But he probably won't miss an all star game for the next 10 years and I'm going to be stuck hearing about how incredible he is the entire time.


I think a lot of people were quick to jump on the Lin bandwagon because he immediately turned the Knicks into a winning team while putting up Derek Rose numbers. (This was without Amare and Melo)


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*



Laker Freak said:


> I think a lot of people were quick to jump on the Lin bandwagon because he immediately turned the Knicks into a winning team while putting up Derek Rose numbers. (This was without Amare and Melo)


He put up numbers because no one had scouted him yet and he was playing in a point guard's wet dream of a system. I commend him for saving the Knicks' season, that was awesome to watch, but he's not a great player. He's a pretty good player that capitalized on unsuspecting opponents while running an offense that is literally built for a player with his skill set. When he averages 15/7 next year I'll go ahead and bump this thread.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*



Luke said:


> He put up numbers because no one had scouted him yet and he was playing in a point guard's wet dream of a system. I commend him for saving the Knicks' season, that was awesome to watch, but he's not a great player. He's a pretty good player that capitalized on unsuspecting opponents while running an offense that is literally built for a player with his skill set. When he averages 15/7 next year I'll go ahead and bump this thread.


Who said he'll average more than 15 and 7?


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*



R-Star said:


> Who said he'll average more than 15 and 7?


Stupid people?


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*



Luke said:


> Stupid people?


Like who though? I haven't seen anyone around here saying stuff like that.


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## BlackNRed (Feb 9, 2005)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*

Lin is about to make a lot more than he will ever be worth in my opinion.


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## ~Styles~ (May 1, 2006)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*

LOL I haven't encountered anyone who thinks Lin will be better than a 15 and 7 player next year and damn sure not on this site so forget the bump.


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*

Lin won't average 10 points this year.


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*

Lin has the ability to put up numbers. He showed that he can put up numbers. He didn't show us that he can put up efficient numbers. There is a big difference between one and the other. The opinions on him are too extreme in both directions. What he did last year was not an illusion, the guy can play a role on a team. He needs to work on his game and cut back on the turnovers. He isn't some sort of superstar player and at the point guard position he's probably just about average all things considered.


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## Wade County (Jun 22, 2003)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*

he's more like a 14 and 5 kinda guy. Which is not bad honestly.

He went on a historic tear though. Nobody can deny how great he was for those 10 games or so.


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## c_dog (Sep 15, 2002)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*



Luke said:


> Any team would be moronic not to match that offer for Lin for reasons completely unrelated to basketball. The amount of revenue that he is going to bring to that franchise by virtue of being Asian is staggering.
> 
> He's not that great of a player though. He's solid, but anyone who thinks he has an all star future ahead of him (in terms of impact, not chinese people voting him in) is a fool.
> 
> And that's actually my biggest problem with Lin. I like the kid. He seems humble and I am happy that he has been given a chance to show that he belongs in this league. But watching every single Asian fan blow him constantly, whether it be on this site or elsewhere, is ****ing obnoxious.* I'm white, we don't have a lot of superstars in this league, but you don't see me fawning over every single white dude that can play just because he's white.* With Yao I tolerated it because Yao was actually a franchise player when healthy, but Lin is an average to slightly above average starter and will be for the rest of his career. But he probably won't miss an all star game for the next 10 years and I'm going to be stuck hearing about how incredible he is the entire time.


at least the nba used to have a ton of great white players. nba is mostly dominated by blacks but there have been a ton of HOF'ers who are white. how many great asian players have there been in the nba? just yao ming? if you can even call him great.

jeremy lin is so popular among asian fans because he's the anti-asian stereotype. people always think asians are not athletic enough to play in the nba and jlin is proving them wrong. yao ming was not the same because people often thought he was good because "he was just tall" and "if he were 6'9 he wouldn't be anything special". he was often seen as very slow, plodding, and not very athletic. if you were a minority ethnic group and saw your own kind succeed you would be excited too. what you said was ignorant.


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## c_dog (Sep 15, 2002)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*



Wade County said:


> he's more like a 14 and 5 kinda guy. Which is not bad honestly.
> 
> He went on a historic tear though. Nobody can deny how great he was for those 10 games or so.


he averaged 14.6 and 6.2 his first real season in the nba. you don't think he's going to improve? ridiculous.

FYI, his stats with mike woodson were solid. even as he was slowing down because of his knee injury, he was still dropping 18ppg 6apg. haters gonna hate.

i am willing to be that stupid person. i say jeremy lin will average more than 15/7. i'm not afraid to make predictions.


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## Kidd (Jul 2, 2009)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*

Yeah I'm Chinese and I was excited as hell about Jeremy Lin. Tried to watch every Knicks game during the Linsanity and when I couldn't I followed the boxscores on my phone.

I don't see how that was being obnoxious. Get over yourself man.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*



c_dog said:


> at least the nba used to have a ton of great white players. nba is mostly dominated by blacks but there have been a ton of HOF'ers who are white. how many great asian players have there been in the nba? just yao ming? if you can even call him great.
> 
> jeremy lin is so popular among asian fans because he's the anti-asian stereotype. people always think asians are not athletic enough to play in the nba and jlin is proving them wrong. yao ming was not the same because people often thought he was good because "he was just tall" and "if he were 6'9 he wouldn't be anything special". he was often seen as very slow, plodding, and not very athletic. if you were a minority ethnic group and saw your own kind succeed you would be excited too. what you said was ignorant.


I don't give a damn about how many great white players there have been in the past. That's the entire crux of my argument. You realize that you're talking to the same Caucasian that dislikes the greatest white player ever, (Bird) constantly harps on the best white players today, (Love and Griffin) and refers to both of them as overrated players, right?

And I have no problem with Asian people liking Jeremy Lin. I have never said anything to the contrary. I do, however, have a problem with people overrating a player based on his race. If anything, *you're* ignorant for specifically liking a player due to his race. And there are plenty of Asians (including some on this site) that do not overrate Lin, but anyone who believes that he is a star in this league is either ignorant or does not understand basketball. He's mediocre. Sorry.


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## c_dog (Sep 15, 2002)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*



Luke said:


> I don't give a damn about how many great white players there have been in the past. That's the entire crux of my argument. You realize that you're talking to the same Caucasian that dislikes the greatest white player ever, (Bird) constantly harps on the best white players today, (Love and Griffin) and refers to both of them as overrated players, right?
> 
> And I have no problem with Asian people liking Jeremy Lin. I have never said anything to the contrary. I do, however, have a problem with people overrating a player based on his race. If anything, *you're* ignorant for specifically liking a player due to his race. And there are plenty of Asians (including some on this site) that do not overrate Lin, but anyone who believes that he is a star in this league is either ignorant or does not understand basketball. He's mediocre. Sorry.


again, you are ignorant because you have no idea what it feels to be a minority. you're white! you don't need to give a damn if a white athlete is good or overrated because you get more than a handful of elite white athletes in every sport.

a lot of asians get excited about jeremy lin because he's the first of his kind. and there's a difference in hoping that he becomes a elite player than thinking he already is one. most fans know at this point that he is a good player in the nba that is capable of starting on a good team in the nba. nobody is expecting him to make a franchise player impact in the game at this point.

and again with the ignorance. he is not mediocre. he is pretty good. just not superstar good.


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## Coatesvillain (Jul 17, 2002)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*

c_dog in here mad.

I love it. 

Since we're racial cheerleading in here... Blake Griffin's black, dogg. We got that.


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## Najee (Apr 5, 2007)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*



Luke said:


> I'm white, we don't have a lot of superstars in this league, but you don't see me fawning over every single white dude that can play just because he's white. ...
> 
> I don't give a damn about how many great white players there have been in the past. That's the entire crux of my argument. You realize that you're talking to the same Caucasian that dislikes the greatest white player ever, (Bird) constantly harps on the best white players today, (Love and Griffin) and refers to both of them as overrated players, right?


1.) Evidently, you're only counting white Americans. Last I saw, players like Steve Nash, Dirk Nowitzki and Manu Ginobili were white.

2.) Blake Griffin is biracial (black father, white mother): 










3.) Being (presumably) a white American, you're not going to get a lot of sympathy on this issue. The vast majority of the coaches and executives in sports are white. Practically all of the owners in sports are white. Even the majority of the agents and legal representatives in the sports industry are white.

Moreover, you live in a country where a disproportionately large number of the business owners, political leaders, corporate executives and managers are white male in a society created by, for and benefits white males more than any group.


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## Ron (May 8, 2002)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*

Maybe, but Blake gets his hops from his mother's side of the family.


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## Dee-Zy (Jan 12, 2006)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*

Lol


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## Ron (May 8, 2002)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*



Luke said:


> I don't give a damn about how many great white players there have been in the past. That's the entire crux of my argument. You realize that you're talking to the same Caucasian that dislikes the greatest white player ever, (Bird) constantly harps on the best white players today, (Love and Griffin) and refers to both of them as overrated players, right?
> 
> And I have no problem with Asian people liking Jeremy Lin. I have never said anything to the contrary. I do, however, have a problem with people overrating a player based on his race. If anything, *you're* ignorant for specifically liking a player due to his race. And there are plenty of Asians (including some on this site) that do not overrate Lin, but anyone who believes that he is a star in this league is either ignorant or does not understand basketball. He's mediocre. Sorry.


Bad comparison white boy.

Are Asians rabid Lin homers? Yes. Do most of them realize they are homers? Not really. But for you to compare it to your feelings of watching white men just shows how out of touch you are. Everywhere in every aspect of life you see form of white man on top and thriving. It's what happens when you have the majority of the resources.

A better comparison for you would be if a player from your high school was in the NBA. First let me ask is there one? and if not I guarantee if there was one you would follow and root for his success extra closely and probably also vehemently defend him from criticism. 

My wife is Brazilian, she moved to LA when she was 3. She was a diehard Laker fan and remains one to this day. However, in 2002 her favorite team became the Nuggets. Why? They had just drafted the first ever Brazilian into the NBA. She was as depressed to see Nene go to the hapless Wizards as I was the day the Lakers traded Van Exel.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*



Jamel Irief said:


> Bad comparison white boy.
> 
> Are Asians rabid Lin homers? Yes. Do most of them realize they are homers? Not really. But for you to compare it to your feelings of watching white men just shows how out of touch you are. Everywhere in every aspect of life you see form of white man on top and thriving. It's what happens when you have the majority of the resources.
> 
> ...


Not really. I went to highschool with a handful of future NHL players and some I like and some I hate.

Dion Phaneuf is a piece of shit. Cam Ward is awesome.


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## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*



R-Star said:


> Not really. I went to highschool with a handful of future NHL players and some I like and some I hate.
> 
> Dion Phaneuf is a piece of shit. Cam Ward is awesome.


Hey now, there's no need to be bringing hockey into the conversation. Let's all keep it civil.


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*

wait, jeremy lin is chinese? I thought he was from the bay area


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*



e-monk said:


> wait, jeremy lin is chinese? I thought he was from the bay area


Why do you think we make all those trigonometry jokes with him calculating bank shots in his head?


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*



Coatesvillain said:


> c_dog in here mad.
> 
> I love it.
> 
> Since we're racial cheerleading in here... Blake Griffin's black, dogg. We got that.


Hey, man, Jim Crow's dead, homey don't play that "one drop of coloured blood" rule no more. Blake's half-honky so we're claiming him.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*



Jamel Irief said:


> Bad comparison white boy.
> 
> Are Asians rabid Lin homers? Yes. Do most of them realize they are homers? Not really. But for you to compare it to your feelings of watching white men just shows how out of touch you are. Everywhere in every aspect of life you see form of white man on top and thriving. It's what happens when you have the majority of the resources.
> 
> ...


Julian Royal, (forward at Georgia Tech) Dai-Jon Parker (guard at Vandy) and Shannon Scott (PG at Ohio State) all went to my high school. I am on a first name basis with all three of them, and have been for years. Go ahead archivist, find the posts where I'm talking about how great they are.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*



c_dog said:


> again, you are ignorant because you have no idea what it feels to be a minority. you're white! you don't need to give a damn if a white athlete is good or overrated because you get more than a handful of elite white athletes in every sport.
> 
> a lot of asians get excited about jeremy lin because he's the first of his kind. and there's a difference in hoping that he becomes a elite player than thinking he already is one. most fans know at this point that he is a good player in the nba that is capable of starting on a good team in the nba. nobody is expecting him to make a franchise player impact in the game at this point.
> 
> and again with the ignorance. he is not mediocre. he is pretty good. just not superstar good.


So I'm ignorant because I follow a sport that is dominated by African Americans, a sport where nearly every single one of my favorite players is an African American, but I'm ignorant because Jeremy Lin is Asian and also a mediocre professional basketball player? Yeah, you have no idea what you're talking about.

He isn't a good player and he will never be a great player. Sorry I had to spell it out for you.

But go ahead, go on record and tell everyone what an ossum pro Lin is and will be. Your signature speaks volume to your incredible track record.


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## Ron (May 8, 2002)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*

Why don't we just stop with all the racial bullshit and get back on topic, eh?


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*

If someone wants to explain to me why Jeremy Lin will be a great point guard without calling me ignorant than fine. But if someone is going to call me out then I'm going to respond. Especially if they're as off base as c_dog is.

I'm still waiting to hear what's so great about him. Was it putting up numbers in a Mike D'Antoni system that would have allowed my 17 year old hipster sister to put up at least 12/5? Was it his ability to play like a starter for a month because we were in the middle of a lockout and teams didn't have time to scout or practice? Or maybe it's the fact that he's a point guard that relies, in part, due to athleticism and unpredictability that blew his knee out in his first real season?

Someone enlighten me.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*



Luke said:


> If someone wants to explain to me why Jeremy Lin will be a great point guard without calling me ignorant than fine. But if someone is going to call me out then I'm going to respond. Especially if they're as off base as c_dog is.
> 
> I'm still waiting to hear what's so great about him. Was it putting up numbers in a Mike D'Antoni system that would have allowed my 17 year old hipster sister to put up at least 12/5? Was it his ability to play like a starter for a month because we were in the middle of a lockout and teams didn't have time to scout or practice? Or maybe it's the fact that he's a point guard that relies, in part, due to athleticism and unpredictability that blew his knee out in his first real season?
> 
> Someone enlighten me.


I'll enlighten you that while some overrate him, you're underrating the shit out of him. And sounding very snobbish for some reason in doing so.

Who are these other PG's that flourished in NY under D'Antoni? 

And teams didn't scout him? Oh ok. So after his first few 20+ point games teams still refused to guard him because they didn't scout him? Again. No. If he's so shitty, then that doesn't even make sense since teams don't run defensive schemes against average players, they only run them to slow down an offensive star.

And now because he had an injury that's a knock on him and its all over?

Sorry. But you're sounding rather ignorant on all this.


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## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*



Luke said:


> If someone wants to explain to me why Jeremy Lin will be a great point guard without calling me ignorant than fine. But if someone is going to call me out then I'm going to respond. Especially if they're as off base as c_dog is.
> 
> I'm still waiting to hear what's so great about him. Was it putting up numbers in a Mike D'Antoni system that would have allowed my 17 year old hipster sister to put up at least 12/5? Was it his ability to play like a starter for a month because we were in the middle of a lockout and teams didn't have time to scout or practice? Or maybe it's the fact that he's a point guard that relies, in part, due to athleticism and unpredictability that blew his knee out in his first real season?
> 
> Someone enlighten me.


he's run d'antoni's offense better than anyone not named nash. so there's that. limited sample though obviously.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*



R-Star said:


> I'll enlighten you that while some overrate him, you're underrating the shit out of him. And sounding very snobbish for some reason in doing so.
> 
> Who are these other PG's that flourished in NY under D'Antoni?
> 
> ...


Underrating him? How so? Lin has shown that he is a mediocre starter in this league. He is not an all star caliber talent, but he's not Smush Parker either. He's somewhere in the middle. Which is fine, good for Lin. He's a good kid. But like plenty of other guys, he's become overrated. Whether that's due to system, where he plays, or who is teammates are is irrelevant. He's overrated by people like c_dog.

Call me a snob all you want. I'm not going to allow some fanboy to call me ignorant just because he's mad that I don't think Jeremy Lin is ossum. 

PGs that flourished in Mike D'Antoni's system:

Steve Nash goes from borderline all star to two time MVP while playing under D'Antoni. Never makes an all NBA first team again once he was introduced into a new system.

Raymond Felton goes from mediocre starter (12/5) to a 17/9 guy playing in New York. Immediately after leaving that system he resumed his role as a an 11/6 guy.

Chris Duhon was a backup level talent at best throughout his career. Under D'Antoni he posts a career high in every major statistical category (points, rebounds, assists) and then proceeds to bury himself on an Orlando team behind none other than Jameer "KG" Nelson.

That should probably suffice.

Again, he blew up because he was off the radar and no one knew that he was actually an adequate basketball player. He came into a literally perfect situation (huge market, free flowing system that has made point guards look incredible, and a depleted roster) while the rest of the league is playing in a jam packed schedule with no real practice time. How is this difficult to grasp? He fell off substantially once teams began to scout him (remember his incredible 1/8 performance again Miami) and then adjusted into an average point guard role.

And how is blowing out your knee *not* a knock. The kid bases a lot of his game around his athleticism and he suffered one of the most serious injuries that can happen to a basketball player! Especially one with his skill set! 

Look, I actually *like* Jeremy Lin. I think he's a humble kid that has overcome a lot. I hope he has a really enjoyable career as an average starter. But that's all he is.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*



Luke said:


> Underrating him? How so? Lin has shown that he is a mediocre starter in this league. He is not an all star caliber talent, but he's not Smush Parker either. He's somewhere in the middle. Which is fine, good for Lin. He's a good kid. But like plenty of other guys, he's become overrated. Whether that's due to system, where he plays, or who is teammates are is irrelevant. He's overrated by people like c_dog.
> 
> Call me a snob all you want. I'm not going to allow some fanboy to call me ignorant just because he's mad that I don't think Jeremy Lin is ossum.
> 
> ...


You calling someone else a fanboy is a little funny, seeing as you have obvious Laker fanboy posts that I've just let slide and decided not to touch.

"They didn't get to practice! And everyone else was playing a packed schedule!" 

Well it sure is lucky for the Knicks that they got to practice more, and didn't have a condensed schedule like everyone else. I wonder why no other "mediocre" NBA player didn't blow up the way Lin did? I mean, the way you explain it, every decent NBA player should have been able to just explode shouldn't they? Why didn't a point guard in Indiana explode then?

The excuses I hear to try to undercut Lin are ridiculous at best. "Oh, they didn't scout him. No one knew who he was!" I'll state again, there isn't one team in the NBA who runs set plays to defend Darren Collison or any other average NBA point guard. They run the same set play for him as they would for Lin. So if Lin was some sort of average at best NBA PG, how would not scouting him even matter? The only PG's getting special attention in defensive schemes are star players like Paul, Williams, Rose, etc. 

Why didn't Baron Davis blow up with the Knicks? How about Mike Bibby? Or the slew of other players they tried?

These are terrible excuses you're giving.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*



R-Star said:


> You calling someone else a fanboy is a little funny, seeing as you have obvious Laker fanboy posts that I've just let slide and decided not to touch.
> 
> "They didn't get to practice! And everyone else was playing a packed schedule!"
> 
> ...


It's adorable that you completely dodged the three examples I gave about how point guards flourish in D'Antoni's system. Or that you ignore that knee injuries are serious and should absolutely be taken into consideration.

And go ahead and find posts of mine where I'm blatantly overrating the Lakers. Take your time.

The condescend schedule and lack of practice time was absolutely a factor. For you to ignore what should be clear as day is proving my point.

Mike Bibby and Baron Davis have been terrible since the 2007 season. Using them as contemporaries is creating a dishonest argument.

If you want to go ahead and refute the other points I made in my last post, go for it. I'm not going to sit here and repeat myself when I've already made a more than adequate case.

Do you think that Lin is more than what I amounted him to be? Do you think that he is a future all star talent?


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*



Luke said:


> It's adorable that you completely dodged the three examples I gave about how point guards flourish in D'Antoni's system. Or that you ignore that knee injuries are serious and should absolutely be taken into consideration.
> 
> And go ahead and find posts of mine where I'm blatantly overrating the Lakers. Take your time.
> 
> ...


So... you're going to say I dodge parts of your post, yet I've brought up 3 times about the condensed schedule and "scouting" garbage you bring up and you refuse to talk about it?


Go ahead and answer my previous post before complaining. It's a pretty cheap tactic that won't work on any poster worth his salt.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*



R-Star said:


> So... you're going to say I dodge parts of your post, yet I've brought up 3 times about the condensed schedule and "scouting" garbage you bring up and you refuse to talk about it?
> 
> 
> Go ahead and answer my previous post before complaining. It's a pretty cheap tactic that won't work on any poster worth his salt.


Nobody knew who Jeremy Lin was 12 months ago. Hell, nobody knew who Jeremy Lin was until a month into the season when the Knicks were bottoming out and Amar'e/'Melo were both battling injury concerns. Lin proceeds to take advantage in a system that is tailor made for a guy with his skill set (which I have touched on) and blows up for a few games. Teams had limited practice time and therefore limited time to scout other players, especially unknown players. This is a fact. 

Once Lin was scouted, (I.E. Miami game) he returned to normal. He was not putting up Nash numbers once defenses adjusted and played at a level that one would reasonably expect an average starter to play at. He was able to play at a decent level after being scouted because *he is a decent player.*

I guess I'll take the effort to break this down completely:

Look at Lin's production at the beginning of Linsanity, his game log numbers are as follows: (25,28,23,38,20,27,10,26,28,21,17) that is an average of 24 PPG on 50+ shooting from the field. He also averages roughly 10 assists a game in that same span.

Now let's look at his play from the Miami game up until his injury: (8,19,14,14,20,20,14,15,6,13,19,18,18,6,13) which roughly equates to 14 or so PPG on -10% shooting from the field. His assists are also chopped by about 40%.

Coincidence? I don't think so. I think that it had more to do with the fact that NBA defenses adjusted to how he played the game and turned him into an average player after a month long blow up.

Consider your point refuted.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*



Luke said:


> Nobody knew who Jeremy Lin was 12 months ago. Hell, nobody knew who Jeremy Lin was until a month into the season when the Knicks were bottoming out and Amar'e/'Melo were both battling injury concerns. Lin proceeds to take advantage in a system that is tailor made for a guy with his skill set (which I have touched on) and blows up for a few games. Teams had limited practice time and therefore limited time to scout other players, especially unknown players. This is a fact.
> 
> Once Lin was scouted, (I.E. Miami game) he returned to normal. He was not putting up Nash numbers once defenses adjusted and played at a level that one would reasonably expect an average starter to play at. He was able to play at a decent level after being scouted because *he is a decent player.*
> 
> ...


Refuted? 

So you completely refuse to talk about the fact that if Jeremy Lin was such a run of the mill player that him not being scouted and "limited practice time" wouldn't matter. 

Again, since you refuse to seem to want to talk about this. How much is Ramon Sessions being scouted by opposing teams? During a teams practice time does the coach stop a play and say "No no no! Sessions would have just lit you up!" No. They run set defenses for average PG's. Again, the exact same defense they'd run for Jeremy Lin. 

So no. Point not refuted. 

Not to mention they ran their whole defense to make Lin look like a fool in the Miami game. If I remember correctly it came out that they basically made it their personal goal to shut him down. 

If getting regular double teams makes Lin "mediocre" then I guess we agree. Lin got a ton of attention after that Miami game because teams saw that if you double and shut down Lin, the Knicks play like shit. 

If anythings a knock against Lin, its the fact that when you give him a ton of defensive pressure, he turns into a liability on the court and can't cope with it. Play him like an average NBA pg though and he'll shred your team apart. Catch 22.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*

Average starters have the ability to play well when they are not focused in on. That's why there starting.

Whatever. I'm not spending my time writing up another long post to have 75% of it ignored and 25% misinterpreted. 

Last question. Which of these players do you feel bring the same value on the basketball court as Jeremy Lin?

1.) Steve Nash

2.) Smush Parker

3.) Chris Paul

4.) Ramon Sessions

5.) Goran Dragic


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*



Luke said:


> Average starters have the ability to play well when they are not focused in on. That's why there starting.
> 
> Whatever. I'm not spending my time writing up another long post to have 75% of it ignored and 25% misinterpreted.
> 
> ...


:laugh: So your "point" is to put 2 superstars, 1 average starter, 1 below average starter, and Smush Parker and ask who Lin is comparable to?

Guess I should whip up a list with Shaq, Hakeem, Roy Hibbert, Chris Kaman and Miles Plumlee in an attempt to explain that Bynum isn't all that good.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*

I've gone on record as saying I don't think Lin is anything more than an average starter who's good offensively but one of the worst turn over PG's I've seen in a long time. Hes not a star, he's not a superstar. Hes a very good offensive PG though.

You talk him down like he's garbage for a few posts in here and then all of the sudden back off that and talk about him like hes an average starting caliber point guard, which I'm pretty sure is all anyone is arguing.


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## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*



Luke said:


> Now let's look at his play from the Miami game up until his injury: (8,19,14,14,20,20,14,15,6,13,19,18,18,6,13) which roughly equates to 14 or so PPG on -10% shooting from the field. His assists are also chopped by about 40%.
> 
> *Coincidence? I don't think so*. I think that it had more to do with the fact that NBA defenses adjusted to how he played the game and turned him into an average player after a month long blow up.
> 
> Consider your point refuted.


The Miami game was only days after Carmelo came back. Lin's role in the Knicks offense changed once Carmelo came back. Miami destroyed Lin, but that's Miami and that's one game. Extrapolating that to anything else is a reach.


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## hroz (Mar 4, 2006)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*

I worry about Lin going from a scorer to a passing PG. 

If he can do that then he has a great future.
Needs to keep down the TOs is all.

He does high risk plays.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*



Luke said:


> Julian Royal, (forward at Georgia Tech) Dai-Jon Parker (guard at Vandy) and Shannon Scott (PG at Ohio State) all went to my high school. I am on a first name basis with all three of them, and have been for years. Go ahead archivist, find the posts where I'm talking about how great they are.


Yeah you didn't answer my question. I said NBA players. Do you post about college basketball period?

And I'm the archivist, not the searchologist. If I don't remember you saying it I won't hunt for it.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*



R-Star said:


> :laugh: So your "point" is to put 2 superstars, 1 average starter, 1 below average starter, and Smush Parker and ask who Lin is comparable to?
> 
> Guess I should whip up a list with Shaq, Hakeem, Roy Hibbert, Chris Kaman and Miles Plumlee in an attempt to explain that Bynum isn't all that good.


No. My point was to throw out an all star caliber player (Nash), a scrub (Smush), a superstar (Paul), a below average starter (Sessions) and an average starter (Dragic). This isn't that difficult, and it's clear which category Lin falls under.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*



R-Star said:


> I've gone on record as saying I don't think Lin is anything more than an average starter who's good offensively but one of the worst turn over PG's I've seen in a long time. Hes not a star, he's not a superstar. Hes a very good offensive PG though.
> 
> *You talk him down like he's garbage* for a few posts in here and then all of the sudden back off that and talk about him like hes an average starting caliber point guard, which I'm pretty sure is all anyone is arguing.


When did I say anything other than he's a mediocre/average starting point guard in this league? You're putting words in my mouth and arguing against yourself. Reading comprehension is key.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*



Jamel Irief said:


> Yeah you didn't answer my question. I said NBA players. Do you post about college basketball period?
> 
> And I'm the archivist, not the searchologist. If I don't remember you saying it I won't hunt for it.


I guess we'll have to wait a few years until the Royal/Parker/Scott trio dominate the league and win every award for the next ten years!


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*



Adam said:


> The Miami game was only days after Carmelo came back. Lin's role in the Knicks offense changed once Carmelo came back. Miami destroyed Lin, but that's Miami and that's one game. Extrapolating that to anything else is a reach.


Extrapolating? We're not only talking about one game here. We're talking about the game that NBA defenses began to recognize Lin's skill set, and his strengths/weaknesses. Why does his production, quite literally, fall off of a cliff after this game? Maybe because he was scouted. Or maybe he just got tired of putting up 24/10, I'm not quite sure.


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## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*



Luke said:


> Extrapolating? We're not only talking about one game here. We're talking about the game that NBA defenses began to recognize Lin's skill set, and his strengths/weaknesses. Why does his production, quite literally, fall off of a cliff after this game? Maybe because he was scouted. Or maybe he just got tired of putting up 24/10, I'm not quite sure.


His production declines because during that period he goes from the #1 option to a #2 behind a bad team player. His numbers aren't even as bad as you're making out considering the circumstances.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*

People forget when they talk about Lin it was 1st time of extended playing time at the nba level so there is naturally going to be some give and take in finding what he can and cant get away with as well as with scouting .

my take is he is a good guard , not really a point guard, more like Harden who is a scoring guard who is really good with pick and roll plays ...sort of a tweener but the good kind the kind that can do both guard spots well enough .

he has a really good head on his shoulders but his handle needs tightening up , he doesn't have a true pg's ability to dribble the ball, it was exploited in the heat game but its next to impossible to replicate level of dominance the heat had against him . between chalmers and cole all they had to do is pressure the ball , they dont have traditional pg duties and they are very good defenders, with excellent help defenders planking them , no team is going to have their pg's expend that much energy if they have to run the offense on the other end.

under normal circumstances he's probably in the neighborhood of a 16 and 8 guy with ok defense at pg and decent %'s , thats pretty good for a 24 yr old with limited experience and puts him in the top 10-12 point guards in the league easy.

he's worth the money.

he has time to work on his deficiencies or at least learn how to marginalize them


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## British_Baller (May 27, 2012)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*

Meh Lin will fade away to average.... Great fit for both the Rockets or Knicks then!

It's like tramps fighting over a discarded hot dog.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*



Da Grinch said:


> People forget when they talk about Lin it was 1st time of extended playing time at the nba level so there is naturally going to be some give and take in finding what he can and cant get away with as well as with scouting .
> 
> my take is he is a good guard , not really a point guard,* more like Harden who is a scoring guard who is really good with pick and roll plays ...sort of a tweener but the good kind the kind that can do both guard spots well enough .*
> 
> ...


Spot on comparison I'd say.


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*

Apparently the Rockets made this a poison horse pill according to this guy. Say what you want about Lin, but you can't deny that his luck is good. Everything has fallen together perfectly for this guy. If the Knicks match this contract is going to make them pay through the nose in luxury tax.

https://twitter.com/HowardBeckNYT


> *Howard Beck* ‏@*HowardBeckNYT*
> 
> Original offer to Lin had 3rd-year bump to $9.3 mil (and 4th-year opt for $9.3m). This one gives NY more to think about with $14.9m in Yr 3.


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## ChosenFEW (Jun 23, 2005)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*

Adios linsanity!!


Hopefully Knicks let him walk. First deal was alright. This new one screams heck no!


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*

Nobody has pointed out the irony in the fact that Houston cut him last year?


----------



## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*



Jamel Irief said:


> Nobody has pointed out the irony in the fact that Houston cut him last year?


there is no irony here. the rockets had two better players at his position and lin would have only seen game action when lowry was hurt.


----------



## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*



rocketeer said:


> there is no irony here. the rockets had two better players at his position and lin would have only seen game action when lowry was hurt.


Is it unusual to have 3 point guards?

You can't tell me the rockets didn't wish they kept him.


----------



## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*



> Marc J. Spears
> Jeremy Lin appears close to being a Houston Rocket with Raymond Felton to NY deal close to being done, sources tell Y!


@SpearsNBAYahoo


----------



## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*

LOL! Enjoy paying Omer Asik and Jeremy Lin $28M combined in a couple years...that should be fun! Lin meant a lot more for New York than he will for Houston.

Probably a smart basketball move for the Knicks, but is it a smart business move to let Lin walk? Probably not. The dude screams MONEY for the Knicks.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*



Damian Necronamous said:


> LOL! Enjoy paying Omer Asik and Jeremy Lin $28M combined in a couple years...that should be fun! Lin meant a lot more for New York than he will for Houston.
> 
> Probably a smart basketball move for the Knicks, but is it a smart business move to let Lin walk? Probably not. The dude screams MONEY for the Knicks.


Lin isn't going to be any less Asian playing for Houston than he was in New York.

I know Yao Ming had a hard time finding a fanbase with the Rockets.


As far as Asik, his expensive deal turns into an asset on the final year where you can trade him as an expiring to someone looking clear up cap space.


----------



## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*

K4L might have to see a therapist if it comes to past.


----------



## cpawfan (Jun 20, 2004)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*

Anyone have details on this?



> SpearsNBAYahoo Rockets found loophole that would cost them $8 million on third year of Lin offer sheet and Knicks $15 million, source tells Y! Sports.


----------



## 29380 (Feb 23, 2009)

cpawfan said:


> Anyone have details on this?


Poison pill, HOU cap hit will be 8 million every year of the deal NYK cap hit would be 5 5 15.

Sent from my SCH-I500 using VerticalSports.Com App


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*

How the **** does that work? That doesn't seem legal.


----------



## 29380 (Feb 23, 2009)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*



Dissonance said:


> K4L might have to see a therapist if it comes to past.


I'll live, trading Shump would have cut me much deeper than losing Lin.


----------



## jayk009 (Aug 6, 2003)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*

Jeremy Lin's ability to bring in revenue is seriously overrated imo. It's not like the Knicks have any problems selling out their seats at the MSG or selling their star's jerseys...It might make a few more people in China tune into the Knicks, but I seriously doubt Lin will bring in THAT much more money for the Knicks..

For a team struggling to have support, a guy like Lin could have real marketing value, but a team like the Knicks it's not as high as people think.


----------



## FSH (Aug 3, 2002)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*

If Lin wanted to stay in NYC so bad and loved Knicks fans then why did he sign a offer sheet that he knew had a Poison Pull that the Knicks couldnt eat?

Makes no sense. Lin knew what he was doing he was trying to force Knicks to give him a ton of money and now he can go to Houston where people will forget about him


----------



## Ron (May 8, 2002)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*



cpawfan said:


> Anyone have details on this?


It wouldn't have been a "loophole," it would have been built into the CBA on purpose.


----------



## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*

does it have to do with the fact that the knicks are way over the cap and rockets are not?


----------



## Ron (May 8, 2002)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*



FSH said:


> If Lin wanted to stay in NYC so bad and loved Knicks fans then why did he sign a offer sheet that he knew had a Poison Pull that the Knicks couldnt eat?
> 
> Makes no sense. Lin knew what he was doing he was trying to force Knicks to give him a ton of money and now he can go to Houston where people will forget about him


Houston forgot about him the first time when the released him. He could have been playing for the league minimum right now out of Houston; now it looks as though he will get $25 million out of the fools.

Houston is having a terrible off-season. So far.


----------



## Coatesvillain (Jul 17, 2002)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*

What the **** is Morey doing? LMAO!


----------



## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*



e-monk said:


> does it have to do with the fact that the knicks are way over the cap and rockets are not?


because the lux tax is not a 'loop hole'


----------



## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*

Lin will get the money, but once he's off the Knicks, the linsanity shit is over. Now you're on a mediocre team going nowhere (and I know that the Knicks were mediocre this past year, but with a training camp and the additions of Kidd, Camby, Felton and Thomas, the Knicks are going to be better).


----------



## FSH (Aug 3, 2002)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*



HKF said:


> Lin will get the money, but once he's off the Knicks, the linsanity shit is over. Now you're on a mediocre team going nowhere (and I know that the Knicks were mediocre this past year, but with a training camp and the additions of Kidd, Camby, Felton and Thomas, the Knicks are going to be better).


Also Lin game isnt gonna work in Houston. Unless Houston changes their whole game plan to fit Lin style which i doubt


----------



## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*



FSH said:


> Also Lin game isnt gonna work in Houston. Unless Houston changes their whole game plan to fit Lin style which i doubt


Houston hardly has a professional roster anymore. If the Knicks don't match, Jeremy Lin will be their style.


----------



## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*

Jeremy Lin
Shaun Livingston
Toney Douglas
Kevin Martin
Jeremy Lamb
Gary Forbes
Chandler Parsons
Royce White
Marcus Morris
Patrick Patterson
Jon Leuer
Jon Brockman
Terrence Jones
Donatas Motiejunas
Omer Asik
Josh Harrellson
Jerome Jordan

At least two of those guys are going to be cut (probably Jordan and Brockman). No matter who they are, this team blows.


----------



## FSH (Aug 3, 2002)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*



Damian Necronamous said:


> Jeremy Lin
> Shaun Livingston
> Toney Douglas
> Kevin Martin
> ...


There is no superstars on that team(but Motiejunas does look like he has the makings to be one. But i like what Houston did they knew they where never gonna win a championship or make it to the conference finales with Scola,Martin,Lowery. So why not blow up the team and get a bunch of young guys plus a ton of cap? 

Houston and Atlanta where two teams that where always gonna be middle of the pack and had to blow up there teams and they both did


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*



> The Post reported on its back page Saturday the Knicks were furious the Rockets changed the offer sheet for Lin and upgraded it to a $25 million guarantee over three years, according to a source. The Knicks were bitter because they told Lin immediately the club would match the original offer and Lin apparently shared the information with the Rockets. Lin and Houston then plotted to redo it.
> 
> Lin secretly flew into Las Vegas without informing the Knicks to renegotiate the contract and sign it.
> 
> The Knicks had been set to match Lin’s original offer sheet of four years, $28.9 million that had a $19 million guarantee before the Rockets threw a financial curveball that called for a $15 million third year that would have doomed owner James Dolan’s luxury-tax predicament.


http://blog.northjersey.com/meadowlandsmatters/3145/knicks-not-all-lin-after-all/


----------



## Wade County (Jun 22, 2003)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*

Why would he have to tell the Knicks that he's flying into Houston to revise the offer?

He's an Unrestricted FA. He doesnt have to tell them shit.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*



Wade County said:


> Why would he have to tell the Knicks that he's flying into Houston to revise the offer?
> 
> He's an Unrestricted FA. He doesnt have to tell them shit.


RFA


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*

Hence this whole matching saga...


----------



## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*

He is still a free agent though? He can do what he wants. A money grab is smart, but he would have ultimately made more dollars in New York on a winning team, that's for sure.


----------



## FSH (Aug 3, 2002)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*

If that is true Lin is a dumbass. He would have made ALOT more money playing in NYC from endrosments and other stuff

He really think he is gonna get a ton of endrosments playing in Houston?


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*



FSH said:


> If that is true Lin is a dumbass. He would have made ALOT more money playing in NYC from endrosments and other stuff
> 
> He really think he is gonna get a ton of endrosments playing in Houston?


Did Yao?


----------



## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*

Damn I don't know why the Knicks think they can get mad at Lin. Dude is going to make like 20 times his previous career earnings in the next three years. He is a professional basketball player. His agent is in the business of making money for his client. Opportunity kicked in his front door and he grabbed hold of it.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*



Diable said:


> Damn I don't know why the Knicks think they can get mad at Lin. Dude is going to make like 20 times his previous career earnings in the next three years. He is a professional basketball player. His agent is in the business of making money for his client. Opportunity kicked in his front door and he grabbed hold of it.


If the Pacers decided not to match Roy Hibbert and he went to Portland, I would have been mad at Indiana, not Roy.

With Lin, the Knicks fans should either want them to match, or say "That's way too high" and want him to walk. Either way, not sure how you can be mad at him.

He's either worth it or hes not. But hes not obligated to them to take a discount to his fair market value.


----------



## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*



R-Star said:


> If the Pacers decided not to match Roy Hibbert and he went to Portland, I would have been mad at Indiana, not Roy.
> 
> With Lin, the Knicks fans should either want them to match, or say "That's way too high" and want him to walk. Either way, not sure how you can be mad at him.
> 
> He's either worth it or hes not. But hes not obligated to them to take a discount to his fair market value.


Speaking of you and Hibbert, why did you pick a picture of a sad Roy to celebrate him coming back to Indy?


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*



Luke said:


> Speaking of you and Hibbert, why did you pick a picture of a sad Roy to celebrate him coming back to Indy?


Its thinkin' Roy. Hes contemplating how awesome the future is.


----------



## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*



FSH said:


> If that is true Lin is a dumbass. He would have made ALOT more money playing in NYC from endrosments and other stuff
> 
> He really think he is gonna get a ton of endrosments playing in Houston?


LMAO...wtf? Lin is not making $10 million in endorsements from simply playing in New York. Lot of people overestimate the economic potential of playing in New York. Also, a dumbass turns down guaranteed money for some pie in the sky that can evaporate with the snap of a tendon.


----------



## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*

A lot of Lin's endorsements are going to come in the Asian market at any rate. It's not really going to matter where he is. If you look at what happened in NYK you might think this is smart for him. He is going to need to be involved, running the pick and roll. He's very good at that, except that he makes some poor decisions. It seems clear that Woodson isn't going to involve him in the offense. He's going to do the exact opposite, and Lin isn't going to earn many endorsements standing around watching Melo play Iso-Ball.


----------



## ChosenFEW (Jun 23, 2005)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*

Well, for Lin to get the huge endorsements he would have to continue to play at a very high level. If he feels like he has to capitalize off those 20 odd games now, then maybe he knows something we don't.

Or maybe he knows what some of us already know


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*



ChosenFEW said:


> Well, for Lin to get the huge endorsements he would have to continue to play at a very high level. If he feels like he has to capitalize off those 20 odd games now, then maybe he knows something we don't.
> 
> Or maybe he knows what some of us already know


If that's the case he made the right move then, no?


----------



## ChosenFEW (Jun 23, 2005)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*

Time will tell. 


1)He didn't want to play in the playoffs against the heat, 
2)he declined an invitation to the USA select team this summer
3)he went back and renegotiated his deal with the rockets without informing Knicks officials after they assured him they were matching


Lin isn't this little naive angel. He knows what's up.


Edit: also His best and closest friend on the team signed with the raptors. I just don't think he wants to deal with all the exposure and hype.


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## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*



ChosenFEW said:


> I just don't think he wants to deal with all the exposure and hype.


or he's a smart guy who wants to get paid.


----------



## Ron (May 8, 2002)

*Jeremy Lin would cost the Knicks $43 million in salary and luxury tax in 2015*

*Jeremy Lin would cost the Knicks $43 million in salary and luxury tax in 2015*

Yikes!


----------



## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*



ChosenFEW said:


> Time will tell.
> 
> 
> 1)He didn't want to play in the playoffs against the heat,
> ...


1)Lin was injured and playing would have risked his ability to sign an enormous deal. 
2)No one plays on the USA teams when they are not under contract (no contact for Deron under after he signed his deal this year)
3) Dude just made 25 million dollars. I'd **** over the knicks for substantially less.


----------



## jayk009 (Aug 6, 2003)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*

Carmelo Anthony always seemed like he wasn't as supportive for Lin as his other teammates. I feel like he was jealous of how the New York media and fans were treating Lin...


----------



## roux (Jun 20, 2006)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*

For once a New York team is playing it smart with their cash.. this guy is straight up more hype than substance


----------



## kbdullah (Jul 8, 2010)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*

The contract itself isn't that bad. You get Lin at 5 M for two years, the third year is inflated, but its just that last year. It's only the fact that the Knicks had previously been loose with their money that caused the poison pill provision to be so tough for them to match.

I don't think Carmelo holds anything against Lin, but I do think he realizes that contract is unusual, referring to it as that, "ridiculous contract that's out there."


----------



## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*

It is questionable he is worth the $5 million...


----------



## ChosenFEW (Jun 23, 2005)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*



Diable said:


> 1)Lin was injured and playing would have risked his ability to sign an enormous deal.
> 2)No one plays on the USA teams when they are not under contract (no contact for Deron under after he signed his deal this year)
> 3) Dude just made 25 million dollars. I'd **** over the knicks for substantially less.



He was actually cleared by doctors and the words from lin's mouth was that he was 85%. He should've suited up for a team without shumpert, Davis, amare. Knicks were playing bobby at point. 

I'm not sure about the USA stuff. He was invited by colangelo to practice with the squad. If he isn't allowed to do so why would they offer him an invite and why would he decline. 

He just made 25 mill. But if he was really this fringe all star with potential he could've made a lot more throughout the years on a contending team. Not on a lottery team for the next 3 years. 

Imagine monta Ellis or Brandon Jennings in ny instead of Milwaukee. Both are better than Lin but both get less exposure and headlines. Considerably less.


----------



## ChosenFEW (Jun 23, 2005)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*



Diable said:


> 1)Lin was injured and playing would have risked his ability to sign an enormous deal.
> 2)No one plays on the USA teams when they are not under contract (no contact for Deron under after he signed his deal this year)
> 3) Dude just made 25 million dollars. I'd **** over the knicks for substantially less.



He was actually cleared by doctors and the words from lin's mouth was that he was 85%. He should've suited up for a team without shumpert, Davis, amare. Knicks were playing bobby at point. 

I'm not sure about the USA stuff. He was invited by colangelo to practice with the squad. If he isn't allowed to do so why would they offer him an invite and why would he decline. 

He just made 25 mill. But if he was really this fringe all star with potential he could've made a lot more throughout the years on a contending team. Not on a lottery team for the next 3 years. 

Imagine monta Ellis or Brandon Jennings in ny instead of Milwaukee. Both are better than Lin but both get less exposure. Considerably less.


----------



## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

*Re: TWITTER: Rockets Offer RFA Lin Deal; Poison Pill for NY to match*



MemphisX said:


> It is questionable he is worth the $5 million...


lol. look at conley and dragic's contracts and tell me lin isn't worth 5 mil


----------



## Ron (May 8, 2002)

*Re: TWITTER: Knicks Decline to Match Rockets' Offer to Lin*

Done deal.

Per Twitter:



> Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine
> 
> RT @HowardBeckNYT: Posting momentarily to http://nytimes.com: Lin will be a Rocket. Knicks deliberations over


----------



## Ron (May 8, 2002)

*Re: TWITTER: Lin will be a Rocket; Knicks Decline to Match Offer*

Not so done deal, not yet anyway.

Per Twitter:



> Ken Berger ‏@KBergCBS
> 
> New York has until 11:59 p.m. ET to formally cut ties with Lin. While decision not unanimous, source characterizes reversal as unlikely.


----------



## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

*Re: TWITTER: Lin to be a Rocket; Knicks Said to Decline to Match Offer*

Am I understanding things incorrectly, or does the contract they also extended to Omer Asik mean that Houston will have about $30 million tied up in Lin and Asik alone three years out?

EDIT: assuming, of course, Chicago doesn't match. Have they announced their intentions yet?


----------



## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

*Re: TWITTER: Lin to be a Rocket; Knicks Said to Decline to Match Offer*

If Houston signs the players, it's a standard 3 year deal with no poison pill like deals. If they return to their former teams, then the contract would be 5/5/inflated number.


----------



## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

*Re: TWITTER: Lin to be a Rocket; Knicks Said to Decline to Match Offer*



HKF said:


> If Houston signs the players, it's a standard 3 year deal with no poison pill like deals. If they return to their former teams, then the contract would be 5/5/inflated number.


Ah. That makes way more sense from Houston's standpoint. I've been a bit busy lately and haven't been able to follow the comings and goings like I usually do.


----------



## l0st1 (Jul 2, 2010)

*Re: TWITTER: Lin to be a Rocket; Knicks Said to Decline to Match Offer*



HKF said:


> If Houston signs the players, it's a standard 3 year deal with no poison pill like deals. If they return to their former teams, then the contract would be 5/5/inflated number.


How does that work? I thought the Rockets made an offer and the Knicks either match that offer or let him walk? How can the Rockets deal change if its them or the Knicks signing it?


----------



## TucsonClip (Sep 2, 2002)

*Re: TWITTER: Lin to be a Rocket; Knicks Said to Decline to Match Offer*



l0st1 said:


> How does that work? I thought the Rockets made an offer and the Knicks either match that offer or let him walk? How can the Rockets deal change if its them or the Knicks signing it?


The Arenas provision.


----------



## ChosenFEW (Jun 23, 2005)

*Re: TWITTER: Lin to be a Rocket; Knicks Said to Decline to Match Offer*







Beat it, kid.


----------



## 29380 (Feb 23, 2009)

*Re: TWITTER: Lin to be a Rocket; Knicks Said to Decline to Match Offer*

Good luck in Houston Lin.


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## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

New York just can't seem to build on something solid. They just let a great point guard go for nothing. Not only that, but he was a ratings monster for new york and the league. Good job staying irrelevant knicks!


----------



## gi0rdun (May 31, 2007)

Damn Knicks.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

Lin may be mediocre but mediocre is still better than Raymond Felton from a basketball perspective. And mediocre is sure as hell better than Raymond Felton when mediocre is younger, a fan favorite, and will generate at least 10 times more revenue for your franchise than mediocre's contract is even worth.

Stupid Knicks being stupid.


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## gi0rdun (May 31, 2007)

Can we stop the whole Jeremy Lin Asian Market thing? Do none of you non-Asian guys not like Jeremy Lin? Do Kevin Love and Steve Nash sign in places with a large white community so that they can make money from the white community? Do Kobe and LeBron James only have black fans?

Obviously there are going to be a lot of Asian Jeremy Lin fans but making assumptions on endorsements, revenue, and whatever else solely based on his race is stupid.


----------



## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

This is Jeremy Lin's fault, not NYK's. If he wanted to stay, he should've had the contract structured evenly - $8M/yr. You can't spend $75M in one year on Melo, Amare, Chandler and Lin. You just can't.


----------



## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

gi0rdun said:


> Can we stop the whole Jeremy Lin Asian Market thing? Do none of you non-Asian guys not like Jeremy Lin? Do Kevin Love and Steve Nash sign in places with a large white community so that they can make money from the white community? Do Kobe and LeBron James only have black fans?
> 
> Obviously there are going to be a lot of Asian Jeremy Lin fans but making assumptions on endorsements, revenue, and whatever else solely based on his race is stupid.


Why should we stop talking about it? It's obviously a factor.

I like Jeremy Lin the basketball player. I do not like Jeremy Lin the hype machine.

Would Yao Ming have made the all star team over Shaq in his rookie year if he wasn't Asian? Would he have been selected the all star team in the 2011 season where he played a grand total of five games had he not been Asian? Don't be obtuse.


----------



## NOHornets (Jun 29, 2012)

gi0rdun said:


> Can we stop the whole Jeremy Lin Asian Market thing? Do none of you non-Asian guys not like Jeremy Lin? Do Kevin Love and Steve Nash sign in places with a large white community so that they can make money from the white community? Do Kobe and LeBron James only have black fans?
> 
> Obviously there are going to be a lot of Asian Jeremy Lin fans but making assumptions on endorsements, revenue, and whatever else solely based on his race is stupid.


I agree. I'm sort of puzzled on why Lin hasn't called out the media for how intolerant they've been since Day one. The guy was born in America, raised in America, and yet all the focus seems to be on "So you're a success to the global and national Asian community, how does that make you feel?". What difference does it make? They don't ask Dwyane Wade how he feels about his impact on the Black community every time he does something. Why would they? 

It's great if Jeremy Lin embraces his nationality and as a role model to the Asian community, but his success has nothing to do with race or overcoming racial adversity. He's no different than any other undrafted NBA success story. That's the biggest beef I have with all of this.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

gi0rdun said:


> Can we stop the whole Jeremy Lin Asian Market thing? Do none of you non-Asian guys not like Jeremy Lin? Do Kevin Love and Steve Nash sign in places with a large white community so that they can make money from the white community? Do Kobe and LeBron James only have black fans?
> 
> Obviously there are going to be a lot of Asian Jeremy Lin fans but making assumptions on endorsements, revenue, and whatever else solely based on his race is stupid.


Are you ****ing kidding me?

Jeremy Lin would be getting about half what he was offered if he was white or black. You know that. Don't act like you don't.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic (Jul 19, 2005)

14, 6, and 3. Those are Jarrett Jack like numbers. That contract isn't a Jarrett Jack like contract.


----------



## c_dog (Sep 15, 2002)

Damian Necronamous said:


> This is Jeremy Lin's fault, not NYK's. If he wanted to stay, he should've had the contract structured evenly - $8M/yr. You can't spend $75M in one year on Melo, Amare, Chandler and Lin. You just can't.


How is it Lin's fault?

1)The Knicks got themselves in this situation by being lax about handing out big contracts to Chandler. Like it or not Lin is going to get paid so the Knicks should have expected to take a hit.

2)The contract is structured so because Rockets don't want Knicks to match. And they were very smart by taking advantage of a loop hole where rockets are paying 8mil per but knicks would take a big hit in 3rd year. It is smart on the Rockets side and Knicks have only themselves to blame by letting Lin test the market and saying "we will match any offer". Why would Lin not sign for 25million just because the Knicks might not want to match when they kept telling him repeatedly that they would match anything? Again this is on the knicks.

3)this contract is only 1 million more than Kris Humphries and Lin would provide 1 extra year of service. not to mention the extra endorsement that Lin would provide to the franchise. Should have been a no brainer.


----------



## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

Luke said:


> Why should we stop talking about it? It's obviously a factor.
> 
> I like Jeremy Lin the basketball player. I do not like Jeremy Lin the hype machine.
> 
> Would Yao Ming have made the all star team over Shaq in his rookie year if he wasn't Asian? Would he have been selected the all star team in the 2011 season where he played a grand total of five games had he not been Asian? Don't be obtuse.


Lin's marketability is made out to be more of a deal than people who understand how the NBA works know it to truly be. Because of the NBA's revenue sharing system, teams only keep money on merchandise they sell in their own stadium. It's not enough to justify overspending on the guy. Even with LeBron James, Micky Arison pointed out that he lost millions last year and he doesn't ever expect to not lose money because of revenue sharing. He also factored in television rights and television market so you can't argue that point.

Lin got a big deal because he was a restricted free agent and Houston wanted him. He's overpaid like 9/10 other NBA players are every free agency period. What's the alternative, Raymond Felton?

The Knicks got too cocky. Going out and spending on Kidd, Camby, and Novak before even securing Lin. They screwed themselves over.



Damian Necronamous said:


> This is Jeremy Lin's fault, not NYK's. If he wanted to stay, he should've had the contract structured evenly - $8M/yr. You can't spend $75M in one year on Melo, Amare, Chandler and Lin. You just can't.


You use the word "fault" like he screwed up something. He's leaving a shitty team and going where he wants to play. And he will actually get all the shots not playing with a ballhog in Melo.


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## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

King Sancho Fantastic said:


> 14, 6, and 3. Those are Jarrett Jack like numbers. That contract isn't a Jarrett Jack like contract.


because his numbers he averaged in the 10 games off the bench playing 9 minutes a game are pretty relevant.


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## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

Damian Necronamous said:


> This is Jeremy Lin's fault, not NYK's. If he wanted to stay, he should've had the contract structured evenly - $8M/yr. You can't spend $75M in one year on Melo, Amare, Chandler and Lin. You just can't.


you not understanding the CBA doesn't make this lin's fault.

if you'd like to read about the actual rule, you can here. http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q44


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

rocketeer said:


> because his numbers he averaged in the 10 games off the bench playing 9 minutes a game are pretty relevant.


Those 10 games off the bench don't count, but the 10 games where he was king of the world do.


Oh. Ok then.

Lin is the most polarized player in the NBA right now. Some guys underrate the shit out of him, while others overrate him like crazy.


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

I think Lin is a low level starting PG at best. I don't think you can win with him as your PG. I think there a lot of guards that could go on a run like he had if given the ability to dominate the entire offense the way he was allowed to do during that stretch.

My case in point is the 26 game run Flip Murray had in Seattle that was never to be seen again.


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## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

R-Star said:


> Those 10 games off the bench don't count, but the 10 games where he was king of the world do.
> 
> 
> Oh. Ok then.
> ...


right. when you are quoting someone's per game numbers, the games where he barely played any minutes at all are kinda irrelevant.

as a starter lin was averaging 34 minutes, 18 points, and almost 8 assists per game. his numbers in the 10 games as an end of the bench guy playing garbage time literally mean nothing. hell in 8 of those games off the bench he totaled 35 minutes which was essentially his average as a starter.

if you think those other games are relevant, cool. enjoy being wrong rstar.

as far as where lin actually rates as a player, i think it's pretty easy. he's a mid level starting pg. not too far off from the guys the rockets lost this offseason.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

rocketeer said:


> right. when you are quoting someone's per game numbers, the games where he barely played any minutes at all are kinda irrelevant.
> 
> as a starter lin was averaging 34 minutes, 18 points, and almost 8 assists per game. his numbers in the 10 games as an end of the bench guy playing garbage time literally mean nothing. hell in 8 of those games off the bench he totaled 35 minutes which was essentially his average as a starter.
> 
> ...


Why didn't you put his turnovers per game in those stats?


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## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

R-Star said:


> Why didn't you put his turnovers per game in those stats?


because i didn't even glance at the turnover column when i checked them.

my point really had nothing to do with the actual numbers. my point was that the garbage time numbers were meaningless and only useful as a way for someone to pretend lin was a lesser player than he is.

i'm glad you agree with me now and have moved on to something else though.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

rocketeer said:


> because i didn't even glance at the turnover column when i checked them.
> 
> my point really had nothing to do with the actual numbers. my point was that the garbage time numbers were meaningless and only useful as a way for someone to pretend lin was a lesser player than he is.
> 
> i'm glad you agree with me now and have moved on to something else though.


Where did I say I agree? You seem to be getting pretty worked up about all this. Kind of to the point of you sounding like a Lin fanboy.


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## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

R-Star said:


> Where did I say I agree? You seem to be getting pretty worked up about all this. Kind of to the point of you sounding like a Lin fanboy.


lol. of course. i'm a "lin is a mid level starting pg" fanboy.


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## gi0rdun (May 31, 2007)

R-Star said:


> Are you ****ing kidding me?
> 
> Jeremy Lin would be getting about half what he was offered if he was white or black. You know that. Don't act like you don't.


There's a difference. Jeremy is a hot commodity because he is Asian for sure. His value is driven up by his media appeal because he is Asian. But here everyone is talking about how he only appeals to the Asian market and that the only fanbase that will be affected by Jeremy's move is the Asian fanbase, which is simply untrue. Adding Jeremy Lin has a positive impact to all fanbase. Not just Asians.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

gi0rdun said:


> There's a difference. Jeremy is a hot commodity because he is Asian for sure. His value is driven up by his media appeal because he is Asian. But here everyone is talking about how he only appeals to the Asian market and that the only fanbase that will be affected by Jeremy's move is the Asian fanbase, which is simply untrue. Adding Jeremy Lin has a positive impact to all fanbase. Not just Asians.


Ok. I don't disagree with that. I'm a Lin fan as well.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

rocketeer said:


> because i didn't even glance at the turnover column when i checked them.
> 
> my point really had nothing to do with the actual numbers. my point was that the garbage time numbers were meaningless and only useful as a way for someone to pretend lin was a lesser player than he is.
> 
> i'm glad you agree with me now and have moved on to something else though.


Oh, so you just normally post like an arrogant dick head then. Ok then.

Not to mention you're snapping at anyone who doesn't say something complimentary about Lin in this thread.

It's pretty damn funny.


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## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

R-Star said:


> Oh, so you just normally post like an arrogant dick head then. Ok then.
> 
> Not to mention you're snapping at anyone who doesn't say something complimentary about Lin in this thread.
> 
> It's pretty damn funny.


lol. rstar calling someone an arrogant dick is funny(not that it couldn't be true, obviously).


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

I'm arrogant because I'm the greatest poster to ever hit a key on the internet. Not because I'm mad at anyone who doesn't like Jeremy Lin. 


Fairly large difference.


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## GrandKenyon6 (Jul 19, 2005)

Lin is the Asian Flip Murray. Nothing more. And in fact he's really a backup combo guard too.


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## BigWill33176 (Dec 21, 2003)




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## kbdullah (Jul 8, 2010)

Dang I thought Cleveland fans were bitter...although that gif probably photoshopped out all the positive comments.


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## ChosenFEW (Jun 23, 2005)

That's what I hate about online social sites. Everything said there they would never say in person.


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## kbdullah (Jul 8, 2010)

I wanna see Houston play New York now.


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

Damian Necronamous said:


> This is Jeremy Lin's fault, not NYK's. If he wanted to stay, he should've had the contract structured evenly - $8M/yr. You can't spend $75M in one year on Melo, Amare, Chandler and Lin. You just can't.


The Knicks are not allowed to pay Lin 8 million next year. 5 million is the most they could pay. I don't know the exact rules, but you could ask Larry **** if you wanted to know why.


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## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

R-Star said:


> Are you ****ing kidding me?
> 
> Jeremy Lin would be getting about half what he was offered if he was white or black. You know that. Don't act like you don't.


I'm not so sure, actually. Goran Dragic got a very comparable deal($30mil/4yrs, potential to jump to $34mil) to Lin's after putting up basically the same stats(aside from lower, but still high, turnovers) over basically the same run as a starting point guard(25 games for Lin, 28 for Dragic). Did Lin get a little extra money from a marketability standpoint? Yea, probably. However, saying that market rate based solely on basketball production for Lin would be about half is seriously overstating things.


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## OneBadLT123 (Oct 4, 2005)

Wow @ that pic...


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

I don't understand why everyone is so worked up about Lin either way. The deal is excessive. People who claim that he is a superstar are obviously delusional, but so are people who claim that he sucks. He is a guy who is really good in a pick and roll offense. If you put him in the pick and roll on a team that can execute he is going to give you decent value. If you don't do that he is not going to be a lot of use. He definitely needs to cut down on the turnovers, but the same can be said of a lot of young point guards.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

No left Lin -_-

Houston knows they're not competing for shit...so here's how you do it...get Yao in there in some ceremonial position...got Lin, go get a bunch more players from Asia and just make money


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## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

Turns out a billion is a while lot less than we thought.

Also, Lin equals ratings. MSG owns the network that airs the games. More viewers sure to Lin means more expensive tv time during games. Lin got a fair contract for what he is, a young high potential pg.


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## Noyze (Oct 7, 2010)

Wow New York fans are classy, calling Lin a ***** in a bunch of twitter responses to him leaving.


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## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

How much is a 23 year old PG who puts up 18/7/4 in the regular season worth? I mean honestly, you guys are acting like he was mediocre. He had like 3 bad games total once he became a starter. Overall he was very good. The only teams he had difficulty with were teams that had superior perimeter defense in the league.


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## kidd2rj (Jan 29, 2005)

You can't fault Lin in this. He came out today and said he wanted to return to the Knicks. The Knicks gave every indication that they will match ANY contract he is offered so why wouldn't he sign the Rocket offer sheet? I'm sure Lin felt the Knicks were going to match. Knicks also had every chance to offer him a contract and keep him but instead decided to let the market dictate his value and then get mad about it. If anything, Knicks fans should be upset at management. Don't say you'll match any offer and then not do it. If you weren't going to put your money where you mouth is then you should have done a better job trying to keep him.


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## l0st1 (Jul 2, 2010)

Thought this was appropriate, got it off NBAMemes Facebook page which is good for some laughs.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

GrandKenyon6 said:


> Lin is the Asian Flip Murray. Nothing more. And in fact he's really a backup combo guard too.


Uh oh. GrandKenyon is almost _always_ wrong, so this probably means Lins a pretty solid player.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Noyze said:


> Wow New York fans are classy, calling Lin a ***** in a bunch of twitter responses to him leaving.


Its New York man, what do you expect? Its a town full of trash and douche bags.


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## 29380 (Feb 23, 2009)

*Six Degrees of Separation: Jeremy Lin
*


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

> From Anthony's point of view, according to sources with firsthand knowledge of his thinking, the Lin phenomenon made little sense. To his thinking, Lin had a few good games, the team surprised everyone with a little winning streak ... and then everybody went bananas.


Well, that's exactly what happened.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

For people that's blaming Lin go listen to Jalen Rose and Jeff Van Gundy's interview on ESPN. The guy did what a non-superstar who haven't made any money is suppose to do, which is to take the best offer available. It's not Lin's responsibility to make sure that the Knicks can sign him, it's the Knicks's. The guy was sleeping on a couch last year and made 780,000.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

> Furthermore, the Knicks calculated that Linsanity might not be worth as much as assumed. While the value of the Lin phenonemon has been much discussed, the Knicks saw it differently from most observers. Their season-ticket sales were strong and their sponsorships were stronger. Any money from the sale of Lin jerseys or Knicks' merchandise around the world goes into a leaguewide pool, with the Knicks getting the same portion as any other team, according to revenue-sharing rules. Likewise, their share of the league's TV contracts would not change whether Lin was on the team or not, no matter how many people in New York or Asia were watching.


_That_ is interesting.


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## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

Dre said:


> _That_ is interesting.


Well, yea, the Knicks are an economic juggernaut whether they're good or bad, interesting or boring. The CBA keeps them from going Yankees on the league and just having everyone in the starting lineup making the max.


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## 29380 (Feb 23, 2009)

Bogg said:


> The CBA keeps them from going Yankees on the league and just having everyone in the starting lineup making the max.


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## jayk009 (Aug 6, 2003)

Lin is alot more valuable to a team struggling to attract attendance then a team like the Knicks who sell out every game regardless if they're good or bad


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

Hyperion said:


> Turns out a billion is a while lot less than we thought.
> 
> Also, Lin equals ratings. MSG owns the network that airs the games. More viewers sure to Lin means more expensive tv time during games. Lin got a fair contract for what he is, a young high potential pg.



Dolan foolishly made it personal.

the smart play would have been to match it and deal him later.

even so they made out like bandits because of linsanity , time warner signed a deal because of it that already guaranteed Dolan something around 160 mil. in extra revenue.

i wish him the best , he'll do well in the rockets system.


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## Dee-Zy (Jan 12, 2006)

Da fuq is this then: http://www.nba.com/2012/news/02/17/knicks-cable.ap/index.html


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