# Portland turning on Blazers?



## Talkhard (May 13, 2003)

Anybody else think this part of the Bonzi Wells story in _The Oregonian_ was interesting?



> "The Blazers drew a sparse crowd of just 16,218 fans to the game, the smallest regular season crowd in the eight-year history of the Rose Garden."


It's almost unthinkable that the second home game of the season would draw that small of a crowd in Portland. This is a very bad omen. Allen, Patterson, and Nash must be tearing their hair out about now.

And who can blame the fans for turning on this team? It's one thing to have a team full of thugs and bad apples who win a lot of games, but if these guys can't win, then who wants to have anything to do with them?


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## Gym Rat (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Talkhard</b>!
> Anybody else think this part of the Bonzi Wells story in _The Oregonian_ was interesting?
> 
> 
> ...


What surprises me is this was the crowd on the night they honored Schonz....


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## jackiejackal (Nov 7, 2002)

*well if someone had told me i would turn off a Blazer game*

I wouldn't believe them..but I did.
It was that ugly.


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## Samuel (Jan 1, 2003)

It's going to get worse before it gets better.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

All that nonsense talk about counting character is doing them a lot of good, huh? They should have just kept trying to get as many good basketball players as they could and kept winning games, rather than doing what they thinh some members of the community want.

Ed O.


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## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Ed O</b>!
> All that nonsense talk about counting character is doing them a lot of good, huh? They should have just kept trying to get as many good basketball players as they could and kept winning games, rather than doing what they thinh some members of the community want.
> 
> Ed O.


It's not nonsense. You can win ballgames and have a bunch of guys who don't go flipping off the home crowd in the second home game of the season.

It's not just the losing, or the jackasses on the team...it's the economy as well. Three straight years of declining employment has taken it's toll. Ticket sales for the ballet, opera, symphony, rock concerts and other events are all way down in Portland as well over the last couple years. It's just more visible because they tell you what ticket sales are like in the sports section after every game.


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## Talkhard (May 13, 2003)

What do you think Blazer management should do, Ed O? Should they disregard character and go for the most talented players they can find? Or should they build the team around good citizens, and let the chips fall where they may?

By the way, Utah and San Antonio seem to have had pretty good success building winning teams around "character" guys.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Talkhard</b>!
> What do you think Blazer management should do, Ed O? Should they disregard character and go for the most talented players they can find? Or should they build the team around good citizens, and let the chips fall where they may?


Disregard character and go for the most talented players they can find. No question.



> By the way, Utah and San Antonio seem to have had pretty good success building winning teams around "character" guys.


They've had success building around Hall of Famers. If we get a pair of HoFers on the Blazers at the same time, you can fill in the gaps with good character guys... that's fine by me. Although I'd prefer to add more supremely talented guys, character-be-damned (like the Lakers have done).

If you can't somehow magically start with two HoFers, you need to keep swinging for the fences and try to hit home runs with the guys you *can* get.

Ed O.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Fork</b>!
> 
> It's not nonsense. You can win ballgames and have a bunch of guys who don't go flipping off the home crowd in the second home game of the season.


It *is* nonsense. They can talk the talk, but they simply don't have the inclination to walk the walk. So it's hypocrisy, and I'd prefer them simply to say, "We're doing our best to win basketball games. Things aren't always going to work out, considering we're dealing with young men that often have questionable pasts. But we want to bring championships to Portland, we'll spend whatever it takes to get them, and we hope that you'll enjoy the ride even when it's bumpy."

Ed O.


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## Kmurph (May 7, 2003)

Ed O = Bob Whitsitt ????



> Disregard character and go for the most talented players they can find. No question


It is that type of logic that got us into this mess the first place Ed. The fact that you stand fast to that type of logic, while the rest of the league mocks us, is unbelievable. There is a fine balance there (b\t talent and character) POR is DEFINITELY on the wrong side of that equation. One bad char guy can be handled, two...maybe, but any more than that and you have...well...your current Blazer team. What does it say to you when Nash says that teams are not even WILLING to offer their best or 2nd best player for Sheed? You can try and drum up the excuse of "oh they know we are desperate?" all you want, but I can guarantee you if Nowitzki, McGrady, Iverson, Duncan, KG, etc....were suddenly available, teams wouldn't be offering their 3rd best player for them, whether their teams were desperate or not.

And I would LOVE to hear which future HOF's you think POR can acquire, b\c I surely do not see any available on the horizon, that is unless you are going to insist that Sheed is that guy. And believe that Gary Payton would have been that 2nd HOF to add with Sheed to make us title contenders, which would not have been even remotely the case. The fact is we are still LOOKING for that player. We should have pulled the trigger on a draft day deal for Melo.


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## blazerbraindamage (May 5, 2003)

I don't know about UTAH's success but San Antonio is sure a class act that has had success with players with good character.

This Blazers team is embarassing and shameful.

The front office is completely clueless.

The owner needs to take charge!

Bonzi should have been traded the next day after the S.I. comments.To have this happen again is appauling in my view.

I can't stand these freaking BUMS!

I hate them!

I'm sick of their stench!

RAGE AGAINST THE BOZOS !!!!

Bring back Rip City!!!!!


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## CatchNRelease (Jan 2, 2003)

*Fans Voting With Their Feet.*

When I, and several others, have said I would not attend games until the team got its act together, the common response here was "Great! Shorter ticket lines." and "There will always be someone else waiting to take your seat."

Were you guys busy that night? 16,218 sound like a lot of seats without butts in them to me.

Go Blazers


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## blazerbraindamage (May 5, 2003)

Some fans are such brown nosers that they have their heads so far up the franchises *** that they can't see the forest from the trees.

I think Bill Schonelly nailed it :

"in basket and in life: YOU'VE GOT TO MAKE YOUR FREE THROWS"

That sums it all up nicely.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Kmurph</b>!
> Ed O = Bob Whitsitt ????


Um. Yeah.



> It is that type of logic that got us into this mess the first place Ed.


The "mess" of 2 WC Finals appearances in a row. A team that was consistently in the top 10 of the league. A team stocked with guys in their prime and a couple young potential stars.

What a mess.



> The fact that you stand fast to that type of logic, while the rest of the league mocks us, is unbelievable.


"The rest of the league mocks us"? I don't know what you mean. Who's the rest of the league? The fans? The broadcasters? Today I watched part of the Indy-NY game from the Spurs' first championship year, when the Blazers were down 0-3 in the Conference Finals, and Bill Walton was taking shots at the Blazers even then.

No matter HOW much success a team has, there will be detractors and Portland's lack of championships makes piling on the anti-Blazers bandwagon even easier.



> There is a fine balance there (b\t talent and character) POR is DEFINITELY on the wrong side of that equation. One bad char guy can be handled, two...maybe, but any more than that and you have...well...your current Blazer team.


I don't think there's a line at all. I think your "line" is a dramatic oversimplification of the situation, so I reject that we are on the wrong side of it.



> What does it say to you when Nash says that teams are not even WILLING to offer their best or 2nd best player for Sheed?


Nothing. Other than the obvious that teams don't feel the need to make a move for Rasheed at his current contract amount.



> You can try and drum up the excuse of "oh they know we are desperate?" all you want, but I can guarantee you if Nowitzki, McGrady, Iverson, Duncan, KG, etc....were suddenly available, teams wouldn't be offering their 3rd best player for them, whether their teams were desperate or not.


So what? If Wilt Chamberlain were in his prime and available, they'd try to trade for him, too. Who cares?

Rasheed Wallace isn't even an all-star. You list MVPs or MVP candidates and act like it's shocking that Rasheed wouldn't drum up as much trade interest.



> And I would LOVE to hear which future HOF's you think POR can acquire, b\c I surely do not see any available on the horizon, that is unless you are going to insist that Sheed is that guy.


I don't have an answer there. Which is why I eschew a focus on character: we don't have any HoFers and don't have ANY chance at any in the near future unless we roll the dice on some questionable character guys.



> And believe that Gary Payton would have been that 2nd HOF to add with Sheed to make us title contenders, which would not have been even remotely the case.


What? I don't even know if that's a complete sentence. I'm not sure that know what you're trying to say.

If it's that I think Gary Payton would have been a second HoFer, you're wrong. That's beside the point, though.

A team with two HoFers in or near their prime (so Sabas and Pippen don't count the last few years in Portland) can afford to build with "strong character" guys. A team without even ONE HoFer cannot fill gaps with those players and hope to win consistently, let alone challenge for a championship.

Portland has been rolling the dice on character guys hoping to hit a home run and they've been trying to make up with their lack or quality with quantity. It almost worked, and with a bit more luck it would have brought us a title.



> The fact is we are still LOOKING for that player. We should have pulled the trigger on a draft day deal for Melo.


Whatever. Anthony might be pretty good some day, but he's a ways from all-star level, let alone MVP or HoF, at this point.

Ed O.


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## RG (Jan 1, 2003)

I'll keep this short and as non-disectable as possible. Keep the character at it's current disminished state, and *only* a title run will save their butts.


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## ThatBlazerGuy (May 1, 2003)

Ed O, u can say all u want about taking talent over character...but ticket sales dont lie.....

these guys may have talent, but obviously talented jackasses dont sell tickets....unless the paper lied to us about the attendance....the one thing that REALLY scares me is that it was on the Schondley appreciation night. Those appreciation nights NEVER go un-soldout. At least not until last night....




Maby you would expect a low attendence for a game against the Jazz in the middle of the season, but this was the 2nd game of the season, against the 76ers(Who have a very popular player in Iverson) and it was Schondley appreciation night.....yet only 16,218 came to the game..............


all i can say is i didnt get my season tickets renewd


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## Nightfly (Sep 24, 2002)

*Re: Re: Portland turning on Blazers?*



> Originally posted by <b>Gym Rat</b>!
> 
> 
> What surprises me is this was the crowd on the night they honored Schonz....


I couldn't believe it my self.

I was at the game, and more then half the people in the building walked out during half time before the ceremony even started.

I was looking around the arena, and it was just empty as could be in the upper bowl.

Wasn't the Sixers game the most attended game the last 2 or 3 years?

I got the feeling that most of the people there were high school students that were only there to see Iverson. Pathetic.


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## Kmurph (May 7, 2003)

Ed, you keep bringing up those 2 WC finals appearances like they mean anything now....they don't. This team isn't even close to those teams...they are worse! So yes, taking a look at this team as it stands today, they are a mess.

Tell me then Ed, who is acceptable in trade for Sheed, cause I'd love to hear it. Is Pierce? How about Ray Allen? R.Lewis? Yao? Stevie Franchise? Amare? E.Brand? Baron Davis?.... the fact is none of these guys are available for him either. And Rasheed is in the last year of his contract, so what negative aspect of his salary amount would cause a team pause? That makes absolutely no sense Ed. Considering the fact that POR would most likely have to take back longer contracts to make the deal work anyway.



> I don't have an answer there. Which is why I eschew a focus on character: we don't have any HoFers and don't have ANY chance at any in the near future unless we roll the dice on some questionable character guys.


Those are not the only answers, we could trade for young talent. We could trade for draft picks. We should have used Sheed and anyone outside of Zach for that matter, as chips to bargain for a high draft pick. I can only hope that is the course we take in the future.

On the HOF point, that is exactly what I am talking about Ed. We don't even have the requisite 1st HOF on our team. We need to get that foundation piece first, then build around him. We should be using Sheed, Bonzi, whomever to acquire that player our scouts feel has that potential. THAT should be our first priority now. Otherwise we are just spinning our wheels.


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## blazerbraindamage (May 5, 2003)

I question this team's abilitiy to assess talent.


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## sabas4mvp (Sep 23, 2002)

Portland just misses Sabas...

I think that if the blazers rally off... say an 8-10 game winning streak this season then they will get bigger crowds, until then...


Not gonna happen.


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## Lurch (Nov 3, 2003)

Portland is the disgrace of the league especially Wallace and Wells. I hope they have a really bad year.


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## FeloniusThunk (Jan 1, 2003)

If Portland doesn't want the Blazers anymore, could you get Paul Allen to send them up here to Seattle? I know, there's the Sonics, but I've always been a Blazer fan. Anyway, I would definitely go to a lot more Blazer games if they moved up here, so Paul, if you're reading, you've got a guaranteed sale here.

Thanks,

Felonius

P.S. I could really use a bigger house, too.


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## Yega1979 (Mar 22, 2003)

It's not so suprising that attendence is down, what IS suprising is that there are 16,500 suckers out there who will shell out 150+ bucks to watch a bunch of potheads lollygag around the court. I like to check them out on TV to see how Qyntel and Randolph do, but I can't imagine paying money to watch those guys! It's not even good basketball.


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## Siouxperior (Jan 15, 2003)

Those who say getting 'good character over talent' would improve support for this team. I beg to differ. I just can't see the Rosegarden having a better attendence with a sub .500 team. The only player I want out is Rasheed. I think our teams problems starts and ends with Rasheed Wallace. Lets hope he dosn't rub off on Randolph.


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## ThatBlazerGuy (May 1, 2003)

I think both Wells and Sheed are our main problems. They are both bad apples, and we must begin to build around Zach and Woods, the longer we keep Sheed and Wells, the longer we are putting off the inveitable rebuilding phase. 

Honestly. Wouldnt yall rather have a 35 win team full of young players with good attitudes than this old team full of jackasses that will be lucky to be 7th or 8th seed, wont improve and has 0 chance at making it past the 1st round.....

As for not getting equal value for Wallace, here are some lesser players i would take for Sheed.........

-Big Z
-Rip Hamilton
-Michael Redd
-Ricky Davis
-AK47
-Kwame Brown
-Richard Jefferson
-Gasol
-SAR
-Odom
-Arenas


Their are probably some more.....


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## Terrible (Jan 3, 2003)

I used to get:upset: :upset: about this team and argue with everyone here about how dumb they are with all that talent and why can't they try on a nightly basis, but to be honest now this team just amuses me!

Why get angry or upset or feel disappointed? You think they feel crushed when they lose? Enough to learn the plays for the next game after starting for five years together? Dare to dream! They get paid either way, don't they? 

So take a good look at this team for what it really is; we have a PG that is a three time screw up with weed that should be in jail for distribution yet still gets to start, a PF that makes Archie Bunker look like a poster child for restraint, a SG that looks like Rupaul and believes the fans will show up and praise him no matter what he does, and a coach who thinks our smartest player is Dale Davis???? Now that is frightening!!!

  

Guys! If this doesn't make you laugh then think about our bench for a sec! We've got a SG that gets hurt lacing up his shoes, and SF that wants to beat up our best player and also looks like R Kelly with similar off the court interests. 

This team is pure comedy, it's a Woody Allen movie subtitled in Ebonics!


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## Oldmangrouch (Feb 11, 2003)

:no: 
OK folks, let's go over this one more time.

Even if the Blazers wanted to trade Sheed for someone like Kwame Brown THEY CAN'T DO IT!!!!

NBA trade rules are specifically designed to PREVENT teams from trading high priced vets for "prospects" and/or draft picks. To obtain a good young player (or a decent draft pick) we would also have to eat one or more dead weight contracts. 

It would be wonderful if the team was free to make these baseball style trades.....but they aren't.


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## Oldmangrouch (Feb 11, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Siouxperior</b>!
> Those who say getting 'good character over talent' would improve support for this team. I beg to differ. I just can't see the Rosegarden having a better attendence with a sub .500 team. T



I agree. People need to stop blowing smoke on that point. 

Just as an aside, I wonder how many of the "character over talent" people were among those who are complaining about how much stronger the T'Wolves are going to be this year. A team adding Kandi-man, Spre, and Casell isn't exactly putting character first!


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## The Enigma (May 10, 2003)

*This serves as a public service announcement…*

Portland is down yet board attendance is up (what a coincidence).

For many of you I get the impression that failure and hate are your motivation.

When things are going well you harp on the negative, when things are going bad you revel in your prognostication.

I wonder at times what these individuals would do if the team were in fact dismantled. Where would they go to relieve themselves of their pent up hostilities, prejudices and hatred.

Will the skies suddenly clear, will the sun come out (tomorrow).
I fear not. The tendency towards hatred (towards individuals to whom one does not personally know) is not known to dissipate; it merely displaces itself.

During the down period of team futility pay close attention to the names that seise to be. When the team is depleted yet for the most part "likeable" pay close attention to the ware bouts of those who profess character.

Look around and allow yourself to see, for a time of clarity is inevitable.


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## antibody (Apr 4, 2003)

Great post Enigma...:clap:


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## Talkhard (May 13, 2003)

Enigma, you're seeing what you choose to see. There are no "haters" on this board--only severely disappointed Blazer fans. Personally, I'd much rather be talking about how well Bonzi is playing, and how much Wallace has grown up, and what a great floor general Stoudamire has become. But that's not reality. Instead, the team stumbled out of the starting gate, and shows every sign of being a disfunctional unit again this year. 

Board attendance is up because the season has started. That's how it is every year. Most of the comments are negative right now because we see that a season full of promise and hope is already going south. If the Blazers were winning and had changed their act, we'd all be raving about how this team was going to win 60 games and challenge the Lakers.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Yega1979</b>!
> It's not so suprising that attendence is down, what IS suprising is that there are 16,500 suckers out there who will shell out 150+ bucks to watch a bunch of potheads lollygag around the court.


if you're dumb enough to shell out 150 bucks to watch them, thats because you're a moron. (just so you are clear, I am not calling YOU a moron, I'm calling those people who are stupid enough to shell out 150 bucks for NBA games period)

If they're pot heads who hustle, and win us 1 title is that ok? Ok Bill, you can come back now!

tickets aren't 150+ dollars, infact, I don't even think ANY tickets are that much (the most are 127 dollars). 

Food is expensive? Well, don't buy any. 

The lamest argument we always hear is how it costs "X" dollars to buy "hot dogs, foam fingers, pop, and a shirt"...well, moron, don't BUY all that crap every game. (see above comment about universal use of moron)

I can count on one finger how many times my dad bought me and my siblings stuff like that (outside of pop, popcorn and hot dogs). Never. Know why? I was there FOR THE GAME, not to have my dad buy me crap to keep me happy. 



> I like to check them out on TV to see how Qyntel and Randolph do, but I can't imagine paying money to watch those guys! It's not even good basketball.


I wouldn't pay 150 bucks for a blazers game either, especially since thats courtside. I would pay what my dad pays for his seats (50 bucks..due to season ticket holder contract) though. 

Why does the most expensive ticket price have to be brought up as the average price someone would have to pay? Sure, we'll get Ed O., to respond that he would infact pay for the best seats because he only goes for the game, but there are 16 and 23 dollar seats that aren't that bad.


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>ThatBlazerGuy</b>!
> I think both Wells and Sheed are our main problems.


Thats cool, I'm still with the train of thought that having a midget who can't defend or shoot and wont pass at the point is a huge problem. But whatever... few have stated that this team is capable of great things. They are undersized and dinged up at Center, have no true 3, they lack outside shooters to spread the court, and of course they have the already mentioned PG problem. With all this going for them, they've lost 2 out of 3 to start the season and the crying from the spoiled fanbase is out of control over of all things vague and out of their grasp, character. 

My suggestion is for the fanbase to show some themselves. Winning a championship is a long term process where nearly everything has to fall into place. This current team is nearing the end of their run as some big contracts are coming up over the next couple of years. Again, there is no championship chatter to entertain fairweather fans this year, and a couple of aging fan favs are already gone preceeding the end of this cycle. Lowering expectations would seem to make a lot of sense. Crying like babies at the top of your collective lungs isn't going to make contracts expire any quicker, help Bonzi's outside shot, or encourage Zach to D up and give his all. It does help take Portland off of the prefered places to play for future NBA FAs looking for their next gig. It reinforces the negative stereotype of Portland for the media types, and increases the distance between the fans and ALL of the players. Get a grip and support your team if you're a fan, otherwise take the energy you're wasting crying and caling for boycotts, and put it into something productive. If following the Blazers is so rough on you, quit stomping your feet and throwing temper tantrums, give it up.

STOMP


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## Tommyboy (Jan 3, 2003)

evidently a lot of fans have given it up as evidenced by their sparse turnout.

we keep going at this rate and by the end of the season the Blazers will be an afterthought in Portland.

not that I care. I still am going to follow them but I'm not so blind that I can't recognize the Blazers monumental fall from grace here in Portland in the general population.


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## blazerbraindamage (May 5, 2003)

> When things are going well you harp on the negative, when things are going bad you revel in your prognostication.
> 
> I wonder at times what these individuals would do if the team were in fact dismantled. Where would they go to relieve themselves of their pent up hostilities, prejudices and hatred.



Spoken like a true holier than thou fan!

You are more of a fan than us because you sit on here everyday kissing the Blazers ***.

Sorry but the Blazers suck as an organization these days and the players are pukes.

This never would have happened with Terry,Clyde,Jerome,Buck and Duck because they never gave the fans a reason to heckle them.And if the rare lone nut who had too much to drink did heckle them on a bad night they wouldn't resort to childishly flipping them the bird because those players were PROFESSIONALS and had too much class for all of this NONSENSE!


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## blazerbraindamage (May 5, 2003)

You know what I hate is there are fans who will kiss the Blazers *** to a fault and then there are the fans who hate the Blazers so much that they'll root for the Lakers.

Me I'm in the middle.I just want my team back and for them to stop being royal jackasses.


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## blazerbraindamage (May 5, 2003)

I'm not mad that the Blazers suck I'm mad that their ATTITUDES suck !


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## trifecta (Oct 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Hap</b>!
> 
> Why does the most expensive ticket price have to be brought up as the average price someone would have to pay? Sure, we'll get Ed O., to respond that he would infact pay for the best seats because he only goes for the game, but there are 16 and 23 dollar seats that aren't that bad.


Um, if you go for the GAME, then those are fine. But what about if you go for the Blazer Dancers? $16 tickets just won't do.


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## Nightfly (Sep 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>trifecta</b>!
> 
> 
> Um, if you go for the GAME, then those are fine. But what about if you go for the Blazer Dancers? $16 tickets just won't do.


God... If anyone really goes to see the Blazer dancers rather then the Blazers...

(I know better looking girls at school!)


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## trifecta (Oct 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>HearToTemptYou</b>!
> 
> 
> God... If anyone really goes to see the Blazer dancers rather then the Blazers...
> ...


....Must...resist....comments.....(talk about lobbing one over the plate)

It was a poor attempt to be funny. My bad.


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## Kmurph (May 7, 2003)

Yeah that is the problem I have with several posters on this board, they have their Blazer headband on so tight, that they think the players can do know wrong, or just plainly do not care, how bad their behavior is. 

Then they have the nerve to call anyone who complains about the players on this team, not a "true" fan. Whatever....

I was there last night and that was the emptiest I have seen the Rose Garden. You can try and blame the economy, the draw of the team we played, etc... al you want , but the numbers don't lie. Attendance is rapidly dropping (they said 14,000, but that wasn't even close to the actual amount of people there), the local media openly shows their disdain for the players and vice versa. This is not a good or a healthy situation to be in. I don't think there will be a significant change in fan\media attitudes until some of these players are gone. This whole fan dissatisfaction with the Blazers seems to be coming to a head. Unless something is done it will continue to get worse.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Kmurph</b>!
> You can try and blame the economy, the draw of the team we played, etc... al you want , but the numbers don't lie. Attendance is rapidly dropping (they said 14,000, but that wasn't even close to the actual amount of people there)


Wait... do the numbers lie or don't they? Or do they only lie when they don't support a point you want to make? I'm a bit confused.

Ed O.


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## ProudBFan (Apr 29, 2003)

I've said it many times, and I'm not blowing smoke about it:

1. Character affects both image AND substance.

2. Talent does NOT have to suffer to improve character.

3. In order to improve as a basketball team, the Blazers need to improve their character (see #1, above), first and foremost. They HAVE talent, but it hasn't gotten them out of the first round each of the last 3 seasons. Has it?

4. I am - and always will be - a Blazers fan. And I will be here, rain or shine.

PBF


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## Kmurph (May 7, 2003)

Numbers are meant to be manipulated Ed, and usually can be to make one's point. I am pretty sure you knew that already. 

So give me a positive spin then on those attendance numbers. I'd like to hear it.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Kmurph</b>!
> Numbers are meant to be manipulated Ed, and usually can be to make one's point. I am pretty sure you knew that already.


It doesn't seem fair to me that on the one hand you can say "numbers don't lie" but on the other hands say that only numbers that YOU believe are accurate.



> So give me a positive spin then on those attendance numbers. I'd like to hear it.


How's this one: even with the relatively poor count last night, attendance was still about 2,000 higher than it was during the majority of the Coliseum's sellout streak.

Again, though, I'm not claiming that lower attendance is a GOOD thing. I just don't think that the team will or should overreact to a lower count than they've had in the past.

Ed O.


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## jackiejackal (Nov 7, 2002)

*Ed..*

Do you actually believe this stuff??
You are beginning to sound like you work for the Blazers.

It was the lowest attendance in 8 years !!!!!!

Couple friends of mine who have gone to the games say it is
really strange to see that.
My boss says they are GIVING AWAY tons of tickets this year.


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## bfan1 (Mar 5, 2003)

*...*

There's no doubt that Blazer troubles have affected ticket sales and game attendance. 

Also though there are economic reasons. I know there are a few groups of people that sit near me that have either reduced their tickets to fewer games, some have forfeited all together and some have dropped one account and are now sharing with others. The reason for this is purely $$$.

Lost jobs, etc...

I had a hard decision to renew my contract as well-it isn't easy to afford. I love basketball and going to games is how I like to entertain myself and my family and friends....I didn't base it on anything other than that. 

I don't like all that goes on but I am a fan and to games I will go. It's never as bad as all this fuss makes it out to be. Heck...the lesser the crowd the more enjoyable it is for us anyway! More room! Shorter lines! 

It does get fun when the place is rockin'...but hey...I'm content for now. I'm hopeful things will get better. 

I have full faith that seats will fill back up as the season progresses.


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## tlong (Jan 6, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Ed O</b>!
> 
> How's this one: even with the relatively poor count last night, attendance was still about 2,000 higher than it was during the majority of the Coliseum's sellout streak.
> 
> Ed O.



What the heck is that supposed to mean Ed? Are you just making a point about how you can manipulate numbers? The Coliseum had a maximum capacity of 12,884 so OF COURSE the count last night was higher.


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## RipCityJB (Jan 7, 2003)

There are several dynamics at work here folks.....combine the team's obvious image problems with the worst economy in the country and lower attendance should be no surprise. The economy takes it's toll on any team's foundation, it's season ticket base. The smaller season ticket base can be compensated for in many cases with a marquee opponent (which spurs individual game sales) or group sales, but for Memphis on a wednesday night (or most any weeknight game in November or December) you have neither in your favor.....and the crowds will reflect that. While Portland is taking a bigger hit than most teams (because of the image issues), look at the box scores in the paper every day....a lot of NBA teams have a lot of empty seats.


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## Storyteller (Dec 31, 2002)

I agree that there are lots of factors. Anyone who wants to see this as a "one issue" problem isn't being realistic. So, maybe the real question is this - what percentage of the problem is due to the following factors?

1) Economic problems

2) People don't like the players

3) People are frustrated by a lack of change in personnel

4) Media commentaries lead people to believe that they should not attend

5) The team isn't winning enough games

6) ??????


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## ProudBFan (Apr 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>So Cal Blazer Fan</b>!
> I agree that there are lots of factors. Anyone who wants to see this as a "one issue" problem isn't being realistic. So, maybe the real question is this - what percentage of the problem is due to the following factors?
> 
> 1) Economic problems
> ...


Hmmm... Biorythms of the Blazers?

PBF


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## The Enigma (May 10, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Talkhard</b>!
> Enigma, you're seeing what you choose to see. There are no "haters" on this board--only severely disappointed Blazer fans.


I see quite clearly...

I see individuals who utilize an unwavering dislike for basketball players to vent their pent up frustrations, biases and insecurities.
I see individuals who harbor hatred for individuals meant for the sole purpose of providing entertainment. 
I see _patheticism_ personified.
*Also:* Why bid you feel the urge to quote a word I never used (nor have I ever) in response to me?



> Originally posted by <b>blazerbraindamage</b>!
> Spoken like a true holier than thou fan!


Please refrain from exerting such energy conjuring up these nuggets of wisdom; I sure would not want your little head to burst.



> You are more of a fan than us because you sit on here everyday kissing the Blazers ***.


Sorry to disappoint you but I have a little thing called a life to attend to between time. I do not waste my time gushing over individuals who live their lives oblivious of my existence (or yours, for that matter). I enjoy basketball and I am especially fond of the Portland Trailblazers (the team). I comment on the shortcomings of an individual if I deem the situation deserving of such and I give praise likewise.

A little thing most would term objectivity. 



> ...the players are pukes.


Such eloquence. :no: :no: :no: 



> This never would have happened with Terry,Clyde,Jerome,Buck and Duck because they never gave the fans a reason to heckle them.


You are quite correct in your assertion that such foolishness would not occur with that upstanding bunch. Mostly because they were too busy locating unsuspecting prepubescent onlookers to whisk off to the nearest hotels.


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## Bad Bartons (Aug 23, 2002)

*Fans do not like this team!*

A couple of weeks ago I made a joke about Eddie Griffin in Portland. I was jumped all over.

I then made a point of saying that the Blazers need to get the punks out of Portland. Somebody stated that making a post on this site is a poor way to make a statement. I defended myself saying that I would only be going to one game this year (Celtics), I only went to one last year, and I assumed that many Blazer fans were getting tired of this team. Somebody replied that for every fan like myself who is sick of the JailBlazers there is another fan who will fill the empty seats...WRONG!!!

Portland is seeing a drop in attendance at record levels. Blazer merchandise sales will go down. Money is going to be lost. That is when management is going to really take notice.

When the thuggish, self-centered, idiots on the Portland Blazers win many fans look the other way. How will you all respond when the Blazers are in the lottery next year?


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## Nightfly (Sep 24, 2002)

Hey, I wouldn't mind having the Blazers play in the Memorial Coliseum again.

That sure was a better place to see a game then the Rose Garden is as far as I'm concerned.

If the attendance continues to drop like it has, maybe we should make a push to return to the Memorial Coliseum.

I believe the capacity was 12,666. They may have increased it to 12,800+ in the '90s though.


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## Tommyboy (Jan 3, 2003)

*Re: ...*



> Originally posted by <b>bfan1</b>!
> 
> 
> I had a hard decision to renew my contract as well-it isn't easy to afford. I love basketball and going to games is how I like to entertain myself and my family and friends....I didn't base it on anything other than that.
> ...



aren't you sick and tired of the same music, the same opening routine, the same promo's, the same dance moves, the same songs, the same video's, the same gimmicks over and over and over and over... its mind numbing. I watched home games from section 211 for 3 yrs and it was fun the first year, ok the 2nd year and by the 3rd year I was completely sick of the whole routine. They never changed a thing! And that was 2 seasons ago I quit my tickets, then I'm watching the opening night game vs Cleveland and the EXACT same music and introductiions the whole bit was exactly the same as it was 5 years ago.

upgrade the product, change it from year to year. Seeing the same routine for 41 home games per year for 5 years running is not good marketing, especially when the on-court product is slipping. They should fire the people that do the games IMO.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>tlong</b>!
> 
> What the heck is that supposed to mean Ed? Are you just making a point about how you can manipulate numbers? The Coliseum had a maximum capacity of 12,884 so OF COURSE the count last night was higher.


Of COURSE I was manipulating the numbers. He asked me to do so, and I did. I didn't say I believed that it was a legit point. He asked me to spin it in a positive way and the word "spin" implies half-truths or otherwise ignoring the alternate side of things.

Ed O.


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## bfan1 (Mar 5, 2003)

*Re: Re: ...*



> Originally posted by <b>Tommyboy</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> aren't you sick and tired of the same music, the same opening routine, the same promo's, the same dance moves, the same songs, the same video's, the same gimmicks over and over and over and over... its mind numbing.


absolutely I am. I'd love to see them dump the "dancers" altogether. Add a great "cheerleading squad" (like the ones that compete)....new videos, new promos...I can't even look at a chalupa! There aren't even any decent half time deals anymore either....oh absolutely I am tired of it. 

I wish they would take a whole new approach. What is sad is that our routine in Portland-for the most part-is a carbon copy of most other arenas....barring Celtics-they don't have "dancers".


We go for the game...that is it. The game of basketball...we just try and read stats and talk the game and do our best to ignore all the rest....


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: ...*



> Originally posted by <b>bfan1</b>!
> I wish they would take a whole new approach. What is sad is that our routine in Portland-for the most part-is a carbon copy of most other arenas....barring Celtics-they don't have "dancers".


Boston still doesn't have a mascot either, do they? That's good stuff.

Ed O.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

I wish they'd get new music, new routines, and do more crowd interaction stuff. Get rid of the 'stunt team' (what the hell is that for anyway?) and the "blazer dancers".

They really don't do anything other than occasionally do the same dance routine during a time-out.

woopty damn doo.


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## Nightfly (Sep 24, 2002)

For what it's worth, I'd love if the blazers got rid of "blaze," the dance team, and all that other crap too.

I made a thread about that long time ago...

http://www.basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=90768#post90768


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## Blazer Ringbearer (Jan 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>The Enigma</b>!
> 
> [*]I see _patheticism_ personified.


hmmm... I think I'm experiencing _confusication_.


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## The Enigma (May 10, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Blazer Ringbearer</b>!
> hmmm... I think I'm experiencing _confusication_.


*Patheticism*

You live and you learn (then I teach).


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## The Enigma (May 10, 2003)

Is confusication a word?
I know confustication to be one.


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## Bad Bartons (Aug 23, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: ...*



> Originally posted by <b>Ed O</b>!
> 
> 
> Boston still doesn't have a mascot either, do they? That's good stuff.
> ...



Actually Boston has a mascot named Lucky the Leprechan. This year he is a new guy. I think he is some sort of world class gymnastic dude.

I do think that you guys are making some good points about the same old crap at the Rose Garden. The water garden used to be interesting. Perhaps they could rig it up different so that those little kids that play in there have different worries. If they mess up they get wet. What if sometimes flames shot out of those things instead of water??!!

That would get people to the Rose Garden.


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## Yega1979 (Mar 22, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Siouxperior</b>!
> Those who say getting 'good character over talent' would improve support for this team. I beg to differ. I just can't see the Rosegarden having a better attendence with a sub .500 team. The only player I want out is Rasheed. I think our teams problems starts and ends with Rasheed Wallace. Lets hope he dosn't rub off on Randolph.



What about Bonzi Wells, what about the boneheaded play of guys like Ruben Patterson and Derek Anderson...or the disabiilty of our guards to get the ball inside on a regular basis.

Rasheed under achieves and he's a bad apple, but he's by himself is not a problem on the court(not considering negative affects he may have on others)


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## Yega1979 (Mar 22, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>RipCityJB</b>!
> There are several dynamics at work here folks.....combine the team's obvious image problems with the worst economy in the country and lower attendance should be no surprise. The economy takes it's toll on any team's foundation, it's season ticket base. The smaller season ticket base can be compensated for in many cases with a marquee opponent (which spurs individual game sales) or group sales, but for Memphis on a wednesday night (or most any weeknight game in November or December) you have neither in your favor.....and the crowds will reflect that. While Portland is taking a bigger hit than most teams (because of the image issues), look at the box scores in the paper every day....a lot of NBA teams have a lot of empty seats.


The economy has been bad ever since 2000 when Bush took over the presidency...yet only know are the Blazers seeing attendence drop dramatically. Besides, the people who can afford the $150 blazer ticket aren't the ones hurt the most by the economy.


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## RetroBlazers (Jun 29, 2003)

i've been a blazer fan for my whole life, and i'll support the blazers for as long as i live, as that is the true nature of a fan. the problem is, that not everybody see's it that way, it's easy for people to say that if we got rid of these problem players, that people would come back. but the truth is, that if we got rid of bonzi, sheed, damon, ruben, and whoever else is a problem, we would be a very lousy team. 

and with that said, peopple will say that the fans will appreciate the blazers more and the fans might start coming back to the games. but we all know that will last at most 10 games, when they start losing night after night because we have a whole new cast of characters, this city will not go to the games in support of a lousy team. we may enjoy our new character players, but nobody wants to pay to watch a team that they know will probably lose. 

the truth is, this has never been a problem in portland, becuase we've always been competitive and always been a true playoff team. we knew it going into the season, we knew it during the season, and we always had hope every year that we could pull it together. this team is different, we've been the same team for about 4 years now, adding zbo and Qwoods lately, but we're still the same team, sheed, damon, bonzi. and we looked lousy last year and we had to fight for our playoff spot, this year, it's not even garanteed that we can make the playoffs, and if it looks like that, i have a feeling that many fans will not attend the games, regardless of who we have on the court. 

fans in the NW (not just portland) only care about a winning product. think about the sonics, seahawks, mariners, when they win, like this year for the seahawks, the past 4 years for the mariners, fans show support, when they lose, nobody comes out. it'll be the same in portland. so if we trade everybody just for image sake, get ready for emptier games then the last game, it's just the nature of the NW, people want to win, and that's all.

i don't have any answers into what should be done, and i don't know if trading our players is the best option. all i know is that whatever happens, people in portland need to support the team through thick and thin, and not turn on the team and the organization. if you're a fan of the blazers, be a fan, if you're gonna cry about the team and argue about everything they do, why bother?


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## Bad Bartons (Aug 23, 2002)

Good point.

It is partially the economy but it is mostly that the fans in Portland and the rest of Oregon are sick of the punk Jail 'Blazers.

Anyone who thinks that it is mostly the economy is like an ostrich with his head in the sand.

Other cities are having the same kind of ecomomic troubles that Portland is having but they are not seeing this kind of swing.

C'mon Blazer fans. It is time to wake up and smell the coffee. Most people in Portland do not like the dudes on this team. We do not want to root for them. We do not want to go and see them. Since Sabonis is gone again I am having a hard time finding anyone worth rooting for in Portland.

Do you guys really like these buttheads? Or is it that you are looking through Rose colored glasses. Are you blind with Blazer pride?


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## Blazer Ringbearer (Jan 28, 2003)

Enigma -

Ummm... is this a joke?

It's not at dictionary.com or in my Webster, and you cite a source that is dedicated to making up words?

Are you actually being arrogant about this or sarcastic? Sorry if I'm misinterpereting your meaning, but I read it as arrogant.


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## Blazer Ringbearer (Jan 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>The Enigma</b>!
> Is confusication a word?
> I know confustication to be one.


Do I need a new dictionary?

I feel like I'm taking CRAZY PILLS!!


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## Goldmember (May 24, 2003)

> Do you guys really like these buttheads? Or is it that you are looking through Rose colored glasses. Are you blind with Blazer pride?


It's not fair to blame the entire team for the faults of a couple of the players. I don't like Bonzi and Damon anymore (mainly because of their dumb play), but I'm not going to hold the whole team accountable.


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## MercyKersey (Jul 22, 2003)

> Do you guys really like these buttheads? Or is it that you are looking through Rose colored glasses. Are you blind with Blazer pride?


I like and Respect Rasheed Wallace and Bonzi wells for being great ball players and making it to the NBA thru rough times.. Most of the NBA is filled with guys who busted there butts through childhoods and lifes filled with poverty or hard times.. That deserves respect itself..
I like the fact Sheed is a great Dad and Family man to his wife and 3 kids.. I remember reading a story about 4 years ago how Sheed searched and searched for his kid he had with his college girlfriend who ran away with his kid, he eventually found her and petitioned the court and thru alot of work gained custody. I could care less if Sheed gets a T because he feels screwed by the refs. Or if Bonzi sticks up for his teammate and yells back at a guy berating Sheed and gives him the bird.. Im emberassed of people like you in portland who hammer and berate these guys for mistakes everyone makes on a daily basis..


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Bad Bartons</b>!
> Do you guys really like these buttheads? Or is it that you are looking through Rose colored glasses. Are you blind with Blazer pride?


How often are you going to ask this question? It seems every couple of weeks you come on the board and say basically the same thing. I just want to plan ahead so if you could give me a heads-up I'd appreciate it.

Ed O.


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## Trader Ed (Jun 17, 2002)

There are those that this conduct bothers a lot, some a little, and some none at all..... 

But we are all entitled to our opinion on it. There is certainly nothing wrong with Bad Barton disliking the players conduct or anyone else disliking it. Whether or not you agree with why he or others do or do not is inot going to change the space time continuim. That is the great part of this fiorum, he can voice his concerns and irritations. If you do nto like it, skip over it.


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## Tommyboy (Jan 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Yega1979</b>!
> 
> 
> The economy has been bad ever since 2000 when Bush took over the presidency...yet only know are the Blazers seeing attendence drop dramatically. Besides, the people who can afford the $150 blazer ticket aren't the ones hurt the most by the economy.


you don't need to politicize this thread. FYI I could afford those $150 tickets and I was hurt by the economy. My income is down 30% since 2001. You shouldn't make blind assumptions.


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## Talkhard (May 13, 2003)

> "The economy has been bad ever since 2000 when Bush took over the presidency."


Bush had nothing to do with it. The economy started getting bad toward the end of Clinton's last term. But if you think Bush's policies have an effect on the economy, you may be right. Last month marked the 3rd straight increase in job growth under the Bush administration.


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## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>The Enigma</b>!
> 
> 
> *Patheticism*
> ...


Uh...what exactly are you teaching? You know the words on that website are made up, don't you?

Check the following definitions:

reintarnation - Coming back to life as a hillbilly.

Pietrisycamollaviadelrechiotemexity - The state of not having the faintest clue what in the world is going on. Example: Ian asked Chris about electron shells, and Chris replied, with pietrisycamollaviadelrechiotemexity, "Isn't that chemistry?"

pob - To drop food down your shirtfront.

Yeah, that's reference quality material. 

I think you've bullybrained yourself. Quit attempting to wong people and learn to lither a little, okay?


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## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Ed O</b>!
> 
> How often are you going to ask this question? It seems every couple of weeks you come on the board and say basically the same thing. I just want to plan ahead so if you could give me a heads-up I'd appreciate it.
> 
> Ed O.


Probably every time a blazer flips off the fans or gets arrested for smoking weed. So yeah...about every couple weeks.

If the players keep doing the same things, shouldn't the fans have a right to keep complaining about the same things?


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Fork</b>!
> 
> If the players keep doing the same things, shouldn't the fans have a right to keep complaining about the same things?


Well, he's not a Blazers fan, so him complaining about a team that's not his own every couple of weeks doesn't seem like a very productive addition to the dialogue on this board.

Even for Blazers fans, though, I would say that while everyone has a right to say just about anything they want, I question the purpose of continual complaints.

Look: the Blazers have players on the team that aren't as nice as everyone would like. That won't change whether they flip someone off the rest of the year or not. That won't change whether they get into fights in practice on a weekly basis. That won't change whether Rasheed Wallace talks to the media, or stands up his boss on a super-yacht, or screams "an one" every time he shoots the ball.

It also won't change if they FAIL to do any of these things the rest of the year. It won't change whether they perform 100 coat drives, or give millions of dollars to charity, or help countless children to use the abacus.

So we don't think our guys are nice. OK. So we don't like them personally (based on what we know of them). OK. I don't like Qwest. Life is tough sometimes and I have to choose what's really worth continually whining about. Of course, almost everyone has different tolerances and priorities that determine at what level compaining pays off.

On the court, is Rasheed a complainer, an underachiever, an offensive liability? These are the things that, to me, are really of value in discussing on this board because all of our opinions and arguments stem from experiences that are shared by all... or at least can be experienced in similar ways by all.

Some here say that my perspective is clouded by unfettered optimism... and in some respect, that's true. But I'll rip in Bonzi, or Rasheed, or Sabonis, if they fail on the court... because that's where the Blazers are being paid to perform, and it's where I think my focus (and the focus of the fans generally) should be.

Ed O.


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## The Enigma (May 10, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Fork</b>!
> Uh...what exactly are you teaching? You know the words on that website are made up, don't you?


Perhaps the name of the site (LangMaker.com) gave that away.

Perhaps I should have phrased differently:
_You live and you learn (then I teach... you nonsense)._

Obviously my attempted joke was not well received... 
There is a reason I italicized the word in question in my initial post (you know). 
I came across that website a few weeks ago and managed to run into the word Patheticism. I liked the way it sounded and decided that some way; some how I would attempt to sneak it into one of my posts. 
_Also allowing me the opportunity to predict whom if anyone would be the one to point it out (I failed in that regard)._

The link was provided for your personal enjoyment (not as an actual source of reference).


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## ABM (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Ed O</b>!
> Some here say that my perspective is clouded by unfettered optimism... and in some respect, that's true. But I'll rip in Bonzi, or Rasheed, or Sabonis, if they fail on the court... because that's where the Blazers are being paid to perform, and it's where I think my focus (and the focus of the fans generally) should be.


That's pretty much the way I've felt over the years. But, then again, I don't buy season tickets - nor, do I have a family that attends the games.

Most recently, I've seen the reports on the dipping ticket sales which has, basically, caused me to re-evaluate my _values_ as a cross-country fan. Meaning, I now believe it probably *does* matter what these knuckleheads are doing in their off-time. Effectively, they still do represent the Company (as I, too, basically represent my company during my off-time.)

Shoot, Ed, it's pretty obvious to me.....the Trail Blazers organization wants to bring back that family-values connection with the community. Unfortunately, some players are making things very difficult for them right now. Just read their collective pleas, responses, and/or punishments.


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## Blazer Ringbearer (Jan 28, 2003)

Enigma...

Fair enough. There's some pretty cool words on there...

Cheers


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