# Bulls Fans on Crack



## whiterhino (Jun 15, 2003)

There is a ridiculous rumor circulating the Bulls board saying that we will give them ALL 3 of our first rounders, Yogi, and get this, Jiri Welsch for their first pick and either Jerome Williams or JYD. Those guys really really make me ill! I mean this draft is high on quality but there are no sure stars like last years so a #5 IMO is not all that much better than a #15 and certainly not worth that price and on top we lose a great young player and pick up a washed up high contract. They really need to get a clue! :sour:


http://basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=95811


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## RetroDreams (Jun 9, 2002)

All I have to say, much like I did over there, is Ainge is the one with the infatuation with a high draft pick.

As for talent evaluation, when the Houston Rockets traded their three first rounders (#13, #18 and #23) for Eddie Griffin, who was the #7 overall selection.

So don't say it cannot or has not been done before.


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## MJG (Jun 29, 2003)

If a team really believes that a player they can get with a high pick will be a star, I don't see why they'd have a problem giving up three mid to late first round picks for him. I'm not so sure that giving up another young talent in Welsch and having to take back a bad contract in JYD (you know JYD and Jerome Williams are the same person, right?) should really be part of the deal though.


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*If the Bulls had the #1 or #2....*

I make the deal and get Okafor.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

*Re: If the Bulls had the #1 or #2....*



> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> I make the deal and get Okafor.


Would you trade Jiri too? I wouldn't. Okafor isn't going to be THAT great. 

All the picks and Jiri (a proven NBA player) for Okafor? When did Okafor become Tim Duncan or Shaq?


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

*Re: Re: If the Bulls had the #1 or #2....*



> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> 
> 
> Would you trade Jiri too? I wouldn't. Okafor isn't going to be THAT great.
> ...


Exactly. There is no "sure" MVP type player in this draft. Okafor will be an all-star, but not the league's top player.


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*Okafor should be an all-star, you say?*

We seem to have a surplus on the wing.

We don't have an interior presence, rebounding, shotblocking, etc.

Okafor provides that. JYD provides some rebounding and toughness.

You make that trade, your team starts to look pretty nice.

C LaFrentz/Mihm/Perkins
PF Okafor/JYD/Hunter
SF Pierce/McCarty
SG RDavis
PG Atkins/Banks

Throw in a nice player with the MLE, and you're in business.


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## whiterhino (Jun 15, 2003)

*Re: Re: Re: If the Bulls had the #1 or #2....*



> Originally posted by <b>Celts11</b>!
> 
> 
> Exactly. There is no "sure" MVP type player in this draft. Okafor will be an all-star, but not the league's top player.


That's what I'm saying, there is no LeBron in this draft, for that matter there is no Melo or Wade either. It's not worth it and it's ridiculous if you ask me. I'd be highly PISSED if we made a stupid deal like that. Samardiski, Wright, Swift, Jefferson, those are all guys Danny supposedly likes and I would like any of them and we don't need a top 5 pick to get them and could get more than one of them with the picks we have and possibly even 3 of them. 

I mean who are the top 5 picks probably going to be? A combination of Okafor, Howard, Livingston, Harris, Gordon most likely. None of those guys is worth giving up 3 picks (a potential Samardiski or Wright/Swift/Jefferson combination) AND Jiri AND taking on a loser and his contract in JYD. That is stupidity at it's finest. I don't see any of those "top 5" guys becoming superstars...even Okafor who at this point to me is a big risk anyway with his back problems.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

*Re: Okafor should be an all-star, you say?*



> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> 
> We seem to have a surplus on the wing.


We need help in every position. EVERY player could be traded with a decent offer. We don't have a franchise player. We can't pass on a possible all-star just because he plays in the same positions that we have 3 players for 2 spots. 



> We don't have an *interior presence*, rebounding, shotblocking, etc.
> 
> Okafor provides that. JYD provides some rebounding and toughness.


Okafor is far from a inside presence. He had a very good PG in Ben Gordon to feed him great passes. Okafor is still learning offense. Okafor is *Average* offensivley. *To win a championship, you need a dominant player*. Okafor doesn't provide that. He provides instant rebounds, speed, and blocks. Jerome Williams provides a lighter wallat for Wyc. 



> C LaFrentz/Mihm/Perkins
> PF Okafor/JYD/Hunter
> SF Pierce/McCarty
> SG RDavis
> ...


That isn't a contending team. With that team the Boston Celtics will be mediocre for another 5 seasons. This team needs to be turned upside down. We have to go in a completly new direction. Putting the same team year in and year out won't get us no where. The key to every championship team at one point was retooling. Three potential starters could come from these picks and Welsch is very valuable now.


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*Agree on the revamping*

I agree that the Celtics are not in contention mode. All I am saying is that if you can get a college junior who appears to be a guy that will have a long career in the NBA as a defensive stalwart who can help get the Celtics OFF AND RUNNING, a guy with the potential to be an NBA All-Star for many years, you do it.

Jiri Welsch is a nice little player, but to give up him and 2 late-round picks in a marginal draft is worth it. Maybe we could give them Ricky instead of Jiri, but somehow I doubt Scott Skiles would want to do that. JYD is a solid contributor, as well. 

Imagine this lineup in 4 years:

C Perkins
PF Okafor
SF Pierce
SG Davis
PG Banks


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## whiterhino (Jun 15, 2003)

*Re: Agree on the revamping*



> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> IImagine this lineup in 4 years:
> 
> C Perkins
> ...




:sour: I would hope like hell that's not our team in 4 years or I'll be  Out of that lineup the only part I like is Perkins at Center...and he has yet to play.


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>RetroDreams</b>!
> All I have to say, much like I did over there, is Ainge is the one with the infatuation with a high draft pick.
> 
> As for talent evaluation, when the Houston Rockets traded their three first rounders (#13, #18 and #23) for Eddie Griffin, who was the #7 overall selection.
> ...


Fair point, but who got the better of the deal? The Rockets or the Nets?

What if the same thing happens? Not only that, but then it would look like Danny traded Walker + Delk for Raef. The only positive out of the trade is Jiri, and a bit of the draft pick.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

*Re: Agree on the revamping*



> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> 
> Jiri Welsch is a nice little player, but to give up him and 2 late-round picks in a marginal draft is worth it.


We give up Jiri, Stewart, *& all of our first rounders*


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## lastlaugh (Oct 30, 2003)

LOL Danny wants to move up. I could see him doing something like this.


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*The Nets-Rockets Trade*

The Rockets ended up trading 3 picks to get the 5th pick. In this scenario, we're talking about getting the 1st or 2nd pick. If Okafor is not available, you don't do it. 

I guess you guys don't think Okafor will make an impact, right?

Richard Jefferson is a rising star, for a SF. It takes BIG people to win championships, and Okafor looks like the real deal.


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## JRose5 (May 4, 2003)

Although I did not dream up the idea, or even support it necessarily, I've read all the posts about the idea. From what I've gathered, it's based on the fact that Ainge wants to move up in the draft, and he's not known for making smart decisions, so this isn't very off the wall when it's him we're considering.
Sure, I'd say 1 high draft pick for 3 and a mediocre player is dlopsided, but it's Ainge we're talking about. He knows the C's need someone like Okafor, it's not really that much of a stretch.
So its not so much that we're on crack as much as it we just know what Ainge is capable of.



Also, you mentioned:


> ALL 3 of our first rounders, Yogi, and get this, Jiri Welsch for their first pick and either Jerome Williams or JYD.


JYD and Jerome Williams are the same person, maybe you meant Eddie Robinson or JYD?
I think his name has been thrown around alot.


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## Big John (Sep 11, 2002)

I would do the deal, but only if Chicago's pick is #1 and Chicago also throws in its second rounder (#32).


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*JRose5*

You know what Danny Ainge is capable of? He doesn't make smart decisions?

Who the heck are you?

Oh, I forgot, you are the team that had Elton Brand, Ron Artest, and Brad Miller but didn't need any All-Stars, so you squandered them away. 

The Bulls are the ones making the poor decisions. Rest assured, Danny Ainge isn't going to do anything to help your sorry franchise. 

He may have hurt the Mavericks by dumping off our garbage on them, but our future is bright. Can the Bulls say the same?


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## agoo (Jun 1, 2003)

Last year's draft, I do this. This year, I don't. Okafor would be a terrific player for us to have because we need a real powerforward who will rebound, defend, post up and start the break for us and Okafor is that. However, Swift, Jefferson, Humphries, Araujo, and others can/will be that as well. The thing I like about having three picks in this draft is that the talent is extremely deep, but there isn't that much of a difference between picking fifth and 25th.

For Okafor, I think about it. I don't do it, but I think about it. After him though, I keep Welsch and the picks.


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## whiterhino (Jun 15, 2003)

*Re: The Nets-Rockets Trade*



> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> The Rockets ended up trading 3 picks to get the 5th pick. In this scenario, we're talking about getting the 1st or 2nd pick. If Okafor is not available, you don't do it.
> 
> I guess you guys don't think Okafor will make an impact, right?
> ...



Once again they are not talking the 1st or 2nd pick, they are talking like the 5th pick...not that I'd do it for the 1st either, not in this draft.



> Last year's draft, I do this. This year, I don't. Okafor would be a terrific player for us to have because we need a real powerforward who will rebound, defend, post up and start the break for us and Okafor is that. However, Swift, Jefferson, Humphries, Araujo, and others can/will be that as well. The thing I like about having three picks in this draft is that the talent is extremely deep, but there isn't that much of a difference between picking fifth and 25th.
> 
> For Okafor, I think about it. I don't do it, but I think about it. After him though, I keep Welsch and the picks.
> 
> ...


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

*Re: JRose5*



> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> 
> Oh, I forgot, you are the team that had Elton Brand, Ron Artest, and Brad Miller but didn't need any All-Stars, so you squandered them away.
> 
> The Bulls are the ones making the poor decisions. Rest assured, Danny Ainge isn't going to do anything to help your sorry franchise.


How is this relevant? When did JRose5 say the Bulls made better decisions than the Celtics. 



> But our future is bright.


Depends on who you ask. In my opinion unless we have a magnificent draft, our future is dark.


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*The Pot calling the Kettle Black*

How is it relevant? The guy is disparaging Danny, which I found funny since Chicago's personnel moves have been about the DUMBEST IN THE ENTIRE NBA over the past three to four years.

Saying "Ainge is not known for making smart decisions," well, sort of opens you and yours open to criticism. I'd say that the jury is still out on Danny's decisions.

That said, if the Bulls got the 1 or 2, and we could get Okafor, I would do this deal:

Jiri Welsch
Michael Stewart
15, 24, and 25

for 

Emeka Okafor
JYD
32


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## JRose5 (May 4, 2003)

Did I say a word about the Bulls general management choices?
No, I don't believe I did.

They've made just as many retarded moves as Ainge, probably worse, considering they've been at it longer.
How is it even close to relevant though?

Is this thread about trading Brand for Tyson Chandler?
Wait, let me check the rest of the thread, no, seems like it isn't.

Its very true the Bulls make stupid decisions, and its also very true Ainge has too recently, am I right?

So next thread that opens up about the Bulls making stupid decisions, me and you both will go in and have a field day, sound good?
Until then, how bout worrying about the topic at hand?


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*Jalen*

Sorry to make you relieve your "retarded" decisions. 

I, as only one Celtics fan, would be happy with the trade mentioned in the thread, if you saw my last post.

As for Ainge making "retarded" moves....I dare say he hasn't made anything close to what you guys have done. In fact, I'm willing to defend vehemently any single move except for the signing of Jumaine Jones (which didn't cost anything and we all thought was a good one at the time).


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## lastlaugh (Oct 30, 2003)

*Re: JRose5*

The man is allowed an opinion.
Who do you think you are to knock him because he doesn't agree with you.

My God, Many people have questioned Danny Ainge's decisions since he got here.
You don't live here so you are obviously clueless on this matter. Reading some Globe tabloid articles doesn't make you even close to knowing what you are talking about when it comes to this team.
(How do you like it?)




> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> You know what Danny Ainge is capable of? He doesn't make smart decisions?
> 
> Who the heck are you?


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## JRose5 (May 4, 2003)

Truth,
I don't mean to try to impose my ideas on you, lastlaugh is correct, its my opinion, so I apologize for trying to push any of my opinions as truth, or anything like that.

I think the trading of Walker was stupid in the same fashion that the Bulls trading Rose was stupid. They both weren't fitting in on their respective teams, so it was the correct idea to move them. But I think both teams could have gotten more for each player in return, so I think it was stupid to jump for Antonio Davis and Raef LaFrentz, respectively.

I also didn't like the Davis trade from the aspect of the C's, I was never a fan of Davis, and felt he wouldn't fit in well with Pierce.

So thats where my opinions came from, you don't have to agree with them, they're only my opinions.
My intentions weren't to come in and start a fight, just state my views on the matter.


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## dork (Mar 21, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>whiterhino</b>!
> There is a ridiculous rumor circulating the Bulls board saying that we will give them ALL 3 of our first rounders, Yogi, and get this, Jiri Welsch for their first pick and either Jerome Williams or JYD. Those guys really really make me ill! I mean this draft is high on quality but there are no sure stars like last years so a #5 IMO is not all that much better than a #15 and certainly not worth that price and on top we lose a great young player and pick up a washed up high contract. They really need to get a clue! :sour:
> 
> 
> http://basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=95811



clam down, its called a "rumour", and consdiering some of the retarded thigns your gm has done its not too farfetched..


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## whiterhino (Jun 15, 2003)

*Re: Re: Bulls Fans on Crack*



> Originally posted by <b>dork</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> clam down, its called a "rumour", and consdiering some of the retarded thigns your gm has done its not too farfetched..


I'm not excited so there is no need to Calm Down. The problem is, we've been forced to listen to ridiculous trade rumors from Bulls fans ALL YEAR. They have nothing but garbage on their team (even worse than us and that's bad), yet they constantly think they can dump their high contracts, loser players, and headcases on us and take Peirce, our draft picks, Welsch, and our first born. I'm just sick of it...they need to realize no one wants anyone on their crappy team except maybe Hinrich and he's off limits. I wouldn't even want Curry at this point, he's lazy. Tyson is injured and his career could be in jeopardy. Jamal is a SG trying to be a PG. JYD and Robinson SUCK and are overpaid. Marcus Fizer has never even gotten to play for the Bulls so who knows what he can or cannot do. Davis sucks and the rest of the team is a joke. The Celtics roster sucks too but at least at this point we are realistic about it.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

A lot of what you say is true Whiterhino....

To put it nicely, we have a lot of wishful thinkers on our board...


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## lastlaugh (Oct 30, 2003)

Don't apoligize.
You didn't do anything wrong.
You have just as much of a right to post your opinion at this board as he does.



> Originally posted by <b>JRose5</b>!
> Truth,
> I don't mean to try to impose my ideas on you, lastlaugh is correct, its my opinion, so I apologize for trying to push any of my opinions as truth, or anything like that.
> 
> ...


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## whiterhino (Jun 15, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>arenas809</b>!
> A lot of what you say is true Whiterhino....
> 
> To put it nicely, we have a lot of wishful thinkers on our board...


Thanks Arenas : ) I don't mind wishful thinking once in a while, but I just like a little bit of realism to it. 
The Bulls fell in the perfect spot for them last night even though they went down one. Luol Deng is the perfect guy for that team right now.


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