# Jonathan Bender is underrated...



## Tactics (Mar 6, 2003)

In practice he can beat Reggie in horse and he dunks on Jermaine, he has supreme shot blocking skills and this kid is only 22, he is 7'0'' and can play the 2 guard, talk about versatility, he had calf strains last season though that hampered his season, I think he will be great and you shouldn't call a 22 year old a bust. I also think he has a future with the Pacers, why else would they sign a big contract extension for him?


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

he needs to start
Bender + JO + Brad downlow imagine the possibilities
and then Bender on Defense 3 7 Footers in our Front Court. our opponents couldn't even take a shot If bender started i think he could get 2+ blocks per game 12-15 ppg 8-9 rebounds that's not to bad for a high-schooler
and would i trade him for Kwame (my own question) NO


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## Absynth (Oct 1, 2002)

i dont think there is any way he could avg 8-9 boards a game...esp. with brad and o'neal


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>heatfan</b>!
> i dont think there is any way he could avg 8-9 boards a game...esp. with brad and o'neal


i wouldn't doubt it. We could be one of the best rebounding teams in the league


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## clownskull (Jun 21, 2002)

bender is currently an enigma. i really do hope and wish he brings the practice game to gametime. i must admit that it still to early to call him a bust. after all the kid is only like 22 yrs. old.
he could probably use a good sports psycologist. i don't think it has anything to do with his ability- it's all in his head. if this guy can just get the- f.u. "i know what i can do- and i'm gonna do it to you " attitude-- then this kid could really do some damage.
note to isiah: you MUST get some solid rotations. i realize there were some injuries and other happenings beyound your control but, i am sick and tired of these bizzare rotations and games where a guy plays 30 minuetes one night and then goes 4 or 5 games with a dnp coaches desicion. get a regular lineup and stick with it! or get the f out.


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## Tactics (Mar 6, 2003)

like you said clownskull, Isiah needs to use solid rotations, he was very inconsistent with how many minutes he gave his players, especially Bender, which affected his development.


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## TLR (May 28, 2003)

With Isiah it is weird because Jermaine wasn't any good until Isiah developed him but I think Zeke is killing Bender's development. I mean if you look back Bender has played well when given 20 + minutes but when he plays 5 min he looks horrible because he makes mistakes trying to impress the coach and everyone else. Croshere can sit his fat *** on the end of the bench and Bender can have his combined with Foster's and Brezec minutes however little they may be.


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## NorthEast Wiz (Jul 16, 2002)

I have always thought that Harrington is underrated too. I would love to have him on the Wizards roster.


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## TLR (May 28, 2003)

I bet you would...


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## Ben1 (May 20, 2003)

Bender's gonna be a force in the L if he gets sufficient PT to develop his game.. He's gonna all the physical attributes to be a great player IMO, just need to be stronger and put on a lil' weight....


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## shazha (Nov 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>clownskull</b>!
> bender is currently an enigma. i really do hope and wish he brings the practice game to gametime. i must admit that it still to early to call him a bust. after all the kid is only like 22 yrs. old.
> he could probably use a good sports psycologist. i don't think it has anything to do with his ability- it's all in his head. if this guy can just get the- f.u. "i know what i can do- and i'm gonna do it to you " attitude-- then this kid could really do some damage.
> note to isiah: you MUST get some solid rotations. i realize there were some injuries and other happenings beyound your control but, i am sick and tired of these bizzare rotations and games where a guy plays 30 minuetes one night and then goes 4 or 5 games with a dnp coaches desicion. get a regular lineup and stick with it! or get the f out.


well said.

i still have no hope for the kid, i think he is pathetic. The practise stories are probably made up rumors to hype up this kids trade value. Then again i see your reasons as to why he has not been performing on the court.

still i dont think he will be a big factor in the league.


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## Ben1 (May 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>shazha</b>!
> The practise stories are probably made up rumors to hype up this kids trade value.



hmm.. Very likely....


Anyway, only time can tell.. give him a year or 2 more before judgin' whether he's a bust or not..


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## OwnTheBlocks (Jun 10, 2003)

i think jonathan bender could flourish in the right situation

he has all the tools
and with a player of his abilities, weight/strength isn't that big of an issue as long as he understands proper footwork and positioning because you do not want to sacrifice agility or athleticism for strength at the 2-spot

even if a stronger two uses his strength to create space on JB, he still has the length and jumping ability to close the gap and challenge/block the shot


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## TLR (May 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>shazha</b>!
> 
> 
> The practise stories are probably made up rumors to hype up this kids trade value.



Somehow I don't see Larry Bird "hyping his trade value" :whatever:


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## TLR (May 28, 2003)

The fact is the kid is 22 and is 7 feet tall, can play anywhere from 2 to 4, has a 40 inch vertical, has great timing on blocks and is as good as Jermaine O'Neal at blocking shots, and he has all the potential in the world. His main problem is he has no confidence because he knows the first thing he does wrong Zeke is putting his *** back on the end of the bench.


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## Tactics (Mar 6, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>The Lone Ranger</b>!
> The fact is the kid is 22 and is 7 feet tall, can play anywhere from 2 to 4, has a 40 inch vertical, has great timing on blocks and is as good as Jermaine O'Neal at blocking shots, and he has all the potential in the world. His main problem is he has no confidence because he knows the first thing he does wrong Zeke is putting his *** back on the end of the bench.


with those kind of attributes it will be hard for him to be a bust, look for him to break out the next year or two, he didn't sign a 27 million dollar extension for nothing.


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## OwnTheBlocks (Jun 10, 2003)

couldn't have said it better

allow him a chance to screw up, let him believe in himself and he will probably flourish


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## Tactics (Mar 6, 2003)

yep, give him a couple more years and if he still is unproductive, then he can be called a bust, but not when he is about as old is some of the people that just got drafted.


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>TicN9neZ8</b>!
> yep, give him a couple more years and if he still is unproductive, then he can be called a bust, but not when he is about as old is some of the people that just got drafted.


i think what they're trying to state is that this is gonna be his 4th or 5th season coming up and still he hasn't gotten a chance to prove what he can do on the court therefore a bust......for now, but when he gets the chance to shine he will and will be a very good player in the NBA


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## Xavier8 (Jun 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Pacers Fan</b>!
> 
> 
> i think what they're trying to state is that this is gonna be his 4th or 5th season coming up and still he hasn't gotten a chance to prove what he can do on the court therefore a bust......for now, but when he gets the chance to shine he will and will be a very good player in the NBA



If Bender got the proper playing time he would be a great and productive player. But because the Pacers are such a deep team he cant get alot of PT. Not that I want him to leave by any means, but with a starting spot on another team he could be great.


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Xavier8</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> If Bender got the proper playing time he would be a great and productive player. But because the Pacers are such a deep team he cant get alot of PT. Not that I want him to leave by any means, but with a starting spot on another team he could be great.


Yep. which is why we trade Harrington now and play Bender at SF 30 mpg i see some big help. Big being the key word


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## Xavier8 (Jun 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Pacers Fan</b>!
> 
> 
> Yep. which is why we trade Harrington now and play Bender at SF 30 mpg i see some big help. Big being the key word



No I really don think trading Harrington would be much help. We would lose a great defendr and a solid offensive player.


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Xavier8</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> No I really don think trading Harrington would be much help. We would lose a great defendr and a solid offensive player.


you could say the same about Bender "great defendr and a solid offensive player"


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## Tactics (Mar 6, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Xavier8</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> No I really don think trading Harrington would be much help. We would lose a great defendr and a solid offensive player.


I really wanna keep Harrington and Bender but I have a feeling one will get traded.


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## Xavier8 (Jun 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>TicN9neZ8</b>!
> 
> 
> I really wanna keep Harrington and Bender but I have a feeling one will get traded.


Your probably right, but I would really like to keep both of them.


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Xavier8</b>!
> 
> 
> Your probably right, but I would really like to keep both of them.


I feel the same way but i think it's for the better for the team that one gets traded


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## Tactics (Mar 6, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Pacers Fan</b>!
> 
> 
> I feel the same way but i think it's for the better for the team that one gets traded


this is true, especially if we get a good PG to be a tutor for Tinsley.


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

Gary Payton! clap clap clap-clap-clap Gary Payton! clap clap clap-clap-clap Gary Payton! clap clap clap-clap-clap c'mon join in on the chant.
If we don't get Gary Timmy's still a good choice


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## Xavier8 (Jun 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Pacers Fan</b>!
> 
> 
> I feel the same way but i think it's for the better for the team that one gets traded


It really depends on who gets traded and where they are put on the roster.


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## Tactics (Mar 6, 2003)

well back on topic, people don't realize that Bender is only about as old is alot of the people that just got drafted, expecting him to already be a star is not good, he is young and learning.


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>TicN9neZ8</b>!
> well back on topic, people don't realize that Bender is only about as old is alot of the people that just got drafted, expecting him to already be a star is not good, he is young and learning.


There are 2 opinions to this

1. Bender's been in the league so long he must be good now or he's a bust

2. Bender's only 22 he's still learning the game, give him time

i personally go with opinion 2


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## Xavier8 (Jun 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>TicN9neZ8</b>!
> well back on topic, people don't realize that Bender is only about as old is alot of the people that just got drafted, expecting him to already be a star is not good, he is young and learning.



Exactly, is he keeps on developing and he gets playing time then then he will be a star.


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## Tactics (Mar 6, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Xavier8</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly, is he keeps on developing and he gets playing time then then he will be a star.


I have a feeling Chris Bosh may go through the same thing Bender is, he is coming into the league young and skinny and may have troubles in the beginning but has all-star potential. Chris Bosh will probably recieve the same criticism Bender recieves.


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>TicN9neZ8</b>!
> 
> 
> I have a feeling Chris Bosh may go through the same thing Bender is, he is coming into the league young and skinny and may have troubles in the beginning but has all-star potential. Chris Bosh will probably recieve the same criticism Bender recieves.


I personally think Bosh will make an impact his 2nd year about 14/8 a game i'd say and i think he'll keep developing into a 25/12 guy like either KG or TD


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## Xavier8 (Jun 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Pacers Fan</b>!
> 
> I personally think Bosh will make an impact his 2nd year about 14/8 a game i'd say and i think he'll keep developing into a 25/12 guy like either KG or TD


I am a huge fan of Bosh and IMHO I belive he can become the next KG type player with in the next 5 years. He has so much potential that in any other draft he would have been the number 2 pick.


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## Tactics (Mar 6, 2003)

I'm a huge fan of Bosh to and I think he will be great.


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## Xavier8 (Jun 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>TicN9neZ8</b>!
> I'm a huge fan of Bosh to and I think he will be great.


He might not even have to put on much weight to get to full potential.


BTW Tic thats 2000 post! Congrats.


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## Tactics (Mar 6, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Xavier8</b>!
> 
> 
> He might not even have to put on much weight to get to full potential.
> ...


yep true, thanx about the posts, I think Bosh should of gone before Darko, but with all the hype on the Euro's teams take the risk and alot of times regret it, but with Dirk and Pau those we're good finds. I wonder if the Knicks will get a steal with Maciej Lampe at #30.


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## Xavier8 (Jun 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>TicN9neZ8</b>!
> 
> 
> yep true, thanx about the posts, I think Bosh should of gone before Darko, but with all the hype on the Euro's teams take the risk and alot of times regret it, but with Dirk and Pau those we're good finds. I wonder if the Knicks will get a steal with Maciej Lampe at #30.


I think he will be a huge steal. I mean the Knicks were debating between him and Sweetney a while ago and they end up getting both. Great move.


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## Tactics (Mar 6, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Xavier8</b>!
> 
> 
> I think he will be a huge steal. I mean the Knicks were debating between him and Sweetney a while ago and they end up getting both. Great move.


yep it was great for them, now back to the topic, what do you think Jonathan Bender is capable of averaging at his max potential?


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## Xavier8 (Jun 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>TicN9neZ8</b>!
> 
> 
> yep it was great for them, now back to the topic, what do you think Jonathan Bender is capable of averaging at his max potential?


Thats tough, I would say 11 or 12 rebounds and maybe 20 points, but this is at his max potential.


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## Tactics (Mar 6, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Xavier8</b>!
> 
> 
> Thats tough, I would say 11 or 12 rebounds and maybe 20 points, but this is at his max potential.


that would be awesome, how many BPG you think he could get? I'd say about 3.5


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## Xavier8 (Jun 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>TicN9neZ8</b>!
> 
> 
> that would be awesome, how many BPG you think he could get? I'd say about 3.5


I think 3 to 3.5 would be reasonable.


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## Tactics (Mar 6, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Xavier8</b>!
> 
> 
> I think 3 to 3.5 would be reasonable.


Hopefully the potential turns out to be real and not just hype.


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## Xavier8 (Jun 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>TicN9neZ8</b>!
> 
> 
> Hopefully the potential turns out to be real and not just hype.


Yea, it just really depends on his PT.


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>TicN9neZ8</b>!
> 
> 
> yep it was great for them, now back to the topic, what do you think Jonathan Bender is capable of averaging at his max potential?


just a guess but maybe 22/10/5/3
He has all-around skills at the height of his career i think he'll be a good 2nd option on a high-scoring team similar to what Dirkk used to do on the Mavs


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## Tactics (Mar 6, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Pacers Fan</b>!
> 
> 
> just a guess but maybe 22/10/5/3
> He has all-around skills at the height of his career i think he'll be a good 2nd option on a high-scoring team similar to what Dirkk used to do on the Mavs


that would be great, I posted this topic at Indy Star's board and I got bashed for it pretty bad, they have alot of Tinsley and Bender haters, but hey I'm advertising the board in my sig so maybe some will come over here since they are about as active as our Bulls board.


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>TicN9neZ8</b>!
> 
> 
> that would be great, I posted this topic at Indy Star's board and I got bashed for it pretty bad, they have alot of Tinsley and Bender haters, but hey I'm advertising the board in my sig so maybe some will come over here since they are about as active as our Bulls board.


i'm pretty sure Bender will get at least to 16ppg 7rpg 3apg 3bpg 1spg

yeah hopefully we'll get some more. it seems lately we've made topics intterested enough that people from other team boards post here


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## Tactics (Mar 6, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Pacers Fan</b>!
> 
> 
> i'm pretty sure Bender will get at least to 16ppg 7rpg 3apg 3bpg 1spg
> ...


yeah we had Vintage posting over here with Blackout, but Blackout got suspended, I think the problem with Bender is he doesn't have much post game so he gets stripped by the smaller guys, look at Dirk and KG, a small guy is put on them then they use their post moves.


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>TicN9neZ8</b>!
> 
> 
> yeah we had Vintage posting over here with Blackout, but Blackout got suspended, I think the problem with Bender is he doesn't have much post game so he gets stripped by the smaller guys, look at Dirk and KG, a small guy is put on them then they use their post moves.


yeah. have Kevin McHale come over here sometime to show him a thing or 2 about the post. then get some lessons from Tree Rollins


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## Xavier8 (Jun 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>TicN9neZ8</b>!
> 
> 
> yeah we had Vintage posting over here with Blackout, but Blackout got suspended, I think the problem with Bender is he doesn't have much post game so he gets stripped by the smaller guys, look at Dirk and KG, a small guy is put on them then they use their post moves.


I think as Bender improves his low post moves will vastly improve as well.


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Xavier8</b>!
> 
> 
> I think as Bender improves his low post moves will vastly improve as well.


yeah i think he could turn into a poor man's KG with some post moves. He just needs to learn how to do them. i rarely see him posting up


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## Xavier8 (Jun 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Pacers Fan</b>!
> 
> 
> yeah i think he could turn into a poor man's KG with some post moves. He just needs to learn how to do them. i rarely see him posting up


At his max potential I see him being a KG or dirk type player.


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## Tactics (Mar 6, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Xavier8</b>!
> 
> 
> At his max potential I see him being a KG or dirk type player.


yep me to but I don't know if he will ever reach KG's level.


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>TicN9neZ8</b>!
> 
> 
> yep me to but I don't know if he will ever reach KG's level.


i think he'll more of a star KG type instead of a superstar KG type. Bender won't have as good an outside shot or post moves as KG has which is why at his prime Bender is a STAR


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## TLR (May 28, 2003)

You ever thought about either a) letting Brad Miller walk in FA or B) sign and trading him and Tinsley for a good point guard? That way Jermaine could slide into the center spot, Al Harrington could start at 3 and Jonathan Bender could start at 4. I could see this causing matchup problems. I mean could you see someone like Anthony Mason going all the way out to the three point line to guard him? No. Him and Jermaine would average a good 7 blocks a night together, something Brad can't do. Jon can hit the mid range shot just like Brad. Jermaine and Harrington could grab all of the rebounds while Bender improves his rebounding. I like it!


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>The Lone Ranger</b>!
> You ever thought about either a) letting Brad Miller walk in FA or B) sign and trading him and Tinsley for a good point guard? That way Jermaine could slide into the center spot, Al Harrington could start at 3 and Jonathan Bender could start at 4. I could see this causing matchup problems. I mean could you see someone like Anthony Mason going all the way out to the three point line to guard him? No. Him and Jermaine would average a good 7 blocks a night together, something Brad can't do. Jon can hit the mid range shot just like Brad. Jermaine and Harrington could grab all of the rebounds while Bender improves his rebounding. I like it!


Jermaine's not a Centre at least not a good one. remembre when we played him at C? he's a PF i mean he's only like 230.

i don't want brad to walk he's a top C in the East and helps us a lot
i wouldn't do a sign-and-trade either with Tinsley because Tinsley will be good. Just have some faith.

but that's not a bad plan ur just trading some of favorite Pacers


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## Xavier8 (Jun 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>The Lone Ranger</b>!
> You ever thought about either a) letting Brad Miller walk in FA or B) sign and trading him and Tinsley for a good point guard? That way Jermaine could slide into the center spot, Al Harrington could start at 3 and Jonathan Bender could start at 4. I could see this causing matchup problems. I mean could you see someone like Anthony Mason going all the way out to the three point line to guard him? No. Him and Jermaine would average a good 7 blocks a night together, something Brad can't do. Jon can hit the mid range shot just like Brad. Jermaine and Harrington could grab all of the rebounds while Bender improves his rebounding. I like it!


I dont like it at all, Brad is our C so lets leave it that way. O'Neal does his best work at PF and we need Tinsley because it dosent look like were getting another PG right now.


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## TLR (May 28, 2003)

Actually when I watched the games, Jermaine did his best work when Brad had to sit because of foul trouble (which inevitably happened every game) and Harrington came in. Brad is a very good center and I understand how much everyone likes him but I was thinking of that for Bender's sake. If Donnie is not sure of Bender I would not do it but if he thinks Bender will be a star he could consider it. 

PS. I know it will never happen, but like with everything else I am just speculating.


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## Xavier8 (Jun 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>The Lone Ranger</b>!
> Actually when I watched the games, Jermaine did his best work when Brad had to sit because of foul trouble (which inevitably happened every game) and Harrington came in. Brad is a very good center and I understand how much everyone likes him but I was thinking of that for Bender's sake. If Donnie is not sure of Bender I would not do it but if he thinks Bender will be a star he could consider it.
> 
> PS. I know it will never happen, but like with everything else I am just speculating.


Ok thats cool, im not much on change ecspecially when players are unproven. It would be good to try for acouple games but overall I think we could do better with our current line-up.


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## TLR (May 28, 2003)

Yeah Bender could be our 6th man with a lineup of Tinsley, Artest, Harrington, Jermaine, and Brad. Reggie could be our 7th man. And Mercer our 8th.


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## Xavier8 (Jun 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>The Lone Ranger</b>!
> Yeah Bender could be our 6th man with a lineup of Tinsley, Artest, Harrington, Jermaine, and Brad. Reggie could be our 7th man. And Mercer our 8th.


Thats the lineup I want, IMO it would be perfect.


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>The Lone Ranger</b>!
> Yeah Bender could be our 6th man with a lineup of Tinsley, Artest, Harrington, Jermaine, and Brad. Reggie could be our 7th man. And Mercer our 8th.


That's a great 8 man rotation but i want Foster 8th so Brad can get some rest


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## Xavier8 (Jun 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Pacers Fan</b>!
> 
> 
> That's a great 8 man rotation but i want Foster 8th so Brad can get some rest


That sound ok, but Mercer would be better IMO.


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Xavier8</b>!
> 
> 
> That sound ok, but Mercer would be better IMO.


i know Mercer's capable of 20ppg but i think Brad should get more rest than Artest or Bender. Artest needs to play a lot and Bender is young and doesn't get tied as quickly as Brad


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## Xavier8 (Jun 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Pacers Fan</b>!
> 
> 
> i know Mercer's capable of 20ppg but i think Brad should get more rest than Artest or Bender. Artest needs to play a lot and Bender is young and doesn't get tied as quickly as Brad


Yes but artest gets into foul trouble, but I see why Brad would need rest too.


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Xavier8</b>!
> 
> 
> Yes but artest gets into foul trouble, but I see why Brad would need rest too.


Brad gets in foul trouble too. remember he's a big man


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## TLR (May 28, 2003)

What you guys don't realize is the versatility of this lineup. Brad most of the time gets 2 fouls in the first and has to sit anyway. We can still bring in a swingman because Jermaine can play 4/5, Harrington can play 3/4, Bender can play 2/3/4, and Artest can play 2/3.


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## Xavier8 (Jun 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>The Lone Ranger</b>!
> What you guys don't realize is the versatility of this lineup. Brad most of the time gets 2 fouls in the first and has to sit anyway. We can still bring in a swingman because Jermaine can play 4/5, Harrington can play 3/4, Bender can play 2/3/4, and Artest can play 2/3.


I see what you mean, but that will get complicated and you know Isiah will mess it up.


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>The Lone Ranger</b>!
> What you guys don't realize is the versatility of this lineup. Brad most of the time gets 2 fouls in the first and has to sit anyway. We can still bring in a swingman because Jermaine can play 4/5, Harrington can play 3/4, Bender can play 2/3/4, and Artest can play 2/3.


yah that's what's going on in my head but when you try it on paper it's hard to describe


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## Tactics (Mar 6, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Xavier8</b>!
> 
> 
> I see what you mean, but that will get complicated and you know Isiah will mess it up.


lol, you are so right:laugh:


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