# Breaking Blazer news!



## QRICH

Ch.8 is reporting we made a "big" trade for help in the backcourt tonight! 

Details are next


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## BullsMVP05

bye bye Damon


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## mediocre man

I was just going to post this
Who in the world....what, where, when?


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## QRICH

Dale Davis/ and another player to Warriors for Nick Van Exel


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## RipCity9

I like it - Van Exel can play both guard spots, and it clears some room in the front court.


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## Tince

Dale Davis and filler for Nick Van Exel???


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## mediocre man

I am not happy
Nick Van Exel?????

What the hell?


DD and another player?


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## SoCalfan21

well someone got ripped....aka warriors


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## TP3

Makes sense after they acquired Fisher


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## MAS RipCity

THERE IS A GOD! lol, but seriously YES! NVE is still a clutch player, and we rid ourseleves of Dale Davis. NVE is clutch, can shoot, has an expiring deal. It now looks like Bassy will be hte starting pg in 05 not 04,but he can use a year to bulk up.


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## QRICH

I think the "Filler" is Dan Dickau. 

Damon / Van Exel / Telfair / Dickau?

That is waaay too deep, Dickau is the filler...has to be imo.


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## yangsta

hmm... can NVE play shooting guard? wow.. we'd be undersized... maybe damon is on the block?


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## mediocre man

I find it wierd that chanel 8 is the only one reporting the trade.


And if it's true I hope to God that the filler id Dickau. Not because I don't like him, but that would give us 4 point guards. I was also thinking if Damon isn't traded this off season, then Bassy will never get into a game.


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## spankejanke

I'm pleased with this trade so far but i have a couple of questions....Who is the filler??? Where will Van Exel play??? Who will back up Zach.....Could this mean we trade DA??? The next couple days should be very exciting......


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## QRICH

Who is our backup Center now?! ..... Stiffpania ? ..I hope not! I think this deal will set up another deal.

Damon/Telfair
Anderson/Van Exel (?)
Miles/Patterson
Randolph /Rahim (?)
Ratliff/...........


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## MAS RipCity

please be dickau...he's the only one I could think off.


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## yangsta

wasn't patterson demanding a trade??? maybe him?.. but that would be too much... but it would open a slot for Darius Rice


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## Blazerfan024

WOO HOO!!!!

Guess whos going to get upset

Ill give ya a clue mouse..


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## NateBishop3

oh man.... BAD trade.... I don't know WHAT Nash was thinking on this one....


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## MAS RipCity

put me in your bassy club plz.


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## Blazerfan024

I like it, we needed a shooter and clutch one at that and we didnt give up much, I mean dont you guys realize how REALLY bad Davis was last year..

Mas Taken care of


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## Storyteller

This trade makes all the sense in the world for Golden State.

And makes no sense whatsoever for the Blazers UNLESS Damon is on his way out in another deal.

I've said it before in other threads - the idea of Stoudamire and Van Exel whining and complaining about having to share playing time is not something I want the Blazers to experience this year....


I'll say that if this is true, I am officially


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## Schilly

There was talk that NVE would retire if her were traded anywhere but texas...Maybe he will which in theory clears 2 roster spots.


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## Tince

I think this trade impacts DA more than Damon. Cheeks was talking today about how he wants to run a three gaurd offense, and that we needed help at the 2 gaurd. Yes, a back court of Damon and NVE would be real small, but I have a feeling we'll see it a few times. This means a 3 gaurd rotation, with spot minutes being given to Telfair and Woods.


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## QRICH

> Originally posted by <b>NateBishop3</b>!
> oh man.... BAD trade.... I don't know WHAT Nash was thinking on this one....


 Why do you think this is a bad trade?


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## NateBishop3

ladies and gentlemen, I have not heard anything as of yet... Is this JUST KGW or has anyone heard anything else?


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## RipCity9

Just KGW so far, but Ron Pivo said he had spoken with Davis' agent who confirmed it's a done deal.


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## QRICH

Neither Ch.2 or Ch.6 news knew of this deal. Ron Pivo said the Blazers and Warriors *have* made the trade tonight.


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## Blazerfan024

Definately one of those trades NEVER mentioned lol


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## spankejanke

It was only on KGW.....Ron Pivo the sports guy for KGW was the first to hear about it because he is good friends with Dales agent and he had just been told of it.......


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## Webster's Dictionary

1080 the Fan apparently just reported that it was close, not that it was a done deal. They could be a little behind on their info, or maybe it's just almost a sure thing.

Oh, and sign me up for the Bassy fan club. (any questions, ask Mas)


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## SheedSoNasty

Calm down guys... we still don't know who all is involved and what may happen in the near or even not too distant future. The trade deadline is nowhere near as of right now, so hold your horses before you let loose. I'm still interested to know all of the details... For all we know, J Rich could be involved...


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## Trader Ed

I do not like it for the the reasons SCBF mentioned...

chemistry???

and where is our depth at C now????

Ratliff gets hurt and we are in deep trouble



Maybe Damon/Dale for Nick/Dampier?


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## Schilly

Jason Richardson would make more sense for a on paper standpoint, but what would that take, I doubt Dale is enough unless the Warriors really are scared of losing dampier and really want the cap space next year.


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## Schilly

How about...
Dale, Rueben and Dickau
for
NVE and Richardson

It works $$$ wise


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## QRICH

Dale Davis / Dan Dickau / Vladamir Stiffpania works money wise

Then that deal would definitely leave us with no backup center.


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## Fork

> Originally posted by <b>Schilly</b>!
> How about...
> Dale, Rueben and Dickau
> for
> NVE and Richardson
> 
> It works $$$ wise


If that's the deal John Nash is a genius.


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## Storyteller

> Originally posted by <b>Schilly</b>!
> How about...
> Dale, Rueben and Dickau
> for
> NVE and Richardson
> 
> It works $$$ wise


Yes, it works - even with the trade kickers for Davis and Patterson thrown in.

But Portland does not want to throw it's SG eggs into Jason Richardson's basket. He just doesn't have the outside shot that the Blazers need.


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## Fork

> Originally posted by <b>So Cal Blazer Fan</b>!
> 
> 
> Yes, it works - even with the trade kickers for Davis and Patterson thrown in.
> 
> But Portland does not want to throw it's SG eggs into Jason Richardson's basket. He just doesn't have the outside shot that the Blazers need.


Still, getting rid of Patterson would be a stroke of genius.


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## Blazerfan024

> Originally posted by <b>Fork</b>!
> 
> 
> Still, getting rid of Patterson would be a stroke of genius.


agreed! :yes:


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## Tince

So is this trade a done deal or just likely to be complete, but with possible additions?


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## dkap

> Cheeks was talking today about how he wants to run a three gaurd offense


Ugh. That Stoudamire/McInnis back court worked so well last year.  And that was with Jeff playing some stellar ball on the offensive end. Tells ya something about the likelihood of success pairing any small guard with Damon...

Dan


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## Blazerfan024

If this trade is true and goes through,

I really think there is another trade soon.


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## KIDBLAZE

Oregonlive is now reporting that the blazers are prepared to make the trade.


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## Trader Ed

JR is a headcase... we do not need him :nonono:


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## MAS RipCity

> Originally posted by <b>So Cal Blazer Fan</b>!
> 
> 
> Yes, it works - even with the trade kickers for Davis and Patterson thrown in.
> 
> But Portland does not want to throw it's SG eggs into Jason Richardson's basket. He just doesn't have the outside shot that the Blazers need.


Who really cares if he can't shoot. We give up NOTHING in that scenario and get a budding star.


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## Trader Ed

GS Sends NVE $11.21 mil (They are over the cap by a bit. They can take back about $9.74 mil as a minimum

Portland sends Davis $9 mil expiring + Dickau $0.9 mil = $9 .9 mil 

Works perfectly

GS sheds team salary, saves tax money

Note: NVE has a team option in 2005/06. With his salary being more than Davis and Dickau. We can excercise the right to say no and it becomes an expiring contract. Piece of cake. No added taxes to pay since it will be off the books.

Also, it would be sweet to get Dunleavy as our SF. Sending Ruben or Miles and Woods would be nice. Maybe add a pick and/or cash


We will need another backup C if this happens.
Rahim for Z :gopray:


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## BlazerFanFoLife

Has any media outlet outside of KGW confirmed this trade... and where on oregonlive? Hopefully the other player isnt Woods.... Woods > Dan Dickau

cause i wont be able to sleep till i know


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## PorterIn2004

I'm with Nate and a few others on this one: if it's DD and DD for NVE it smells like more trouble than it's worth....unless there's another trade about to fall, and maybe not even then. VE was a relatively good trooper in Dallas but that was also pretty much an ideal situation for him outside of not starting. And, it's hard to complain when winning like they were. On a Portland team that's struggling to make the playoffs....

:sour:


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## Kmurph

I agree that this trade makes little sense at the present time. Who in the heck is going to be our b\u center? Are we really going to rely on Vladimir Stepania? If that is the case, POR is taking a MAJOR risk. Ratliff is good, but he does have a history of injuries, and it also means (at present) we are counting on Stepania to provide meaningful b\u minutes on a nightly basis. What in the he11 is Nash thinking?

Damon, NVE AND Telfair at the PG spot? OR does this mean NVE or Damon plays SG on occassion, giving POR one of the smallest backcourts in the NBA when they are on the floor together. :sour: 

I have always liked NVE moxie and clutch shooting, but he also has a a whole lot of negatives that come along with him. POR can decline his option, I think after this offseason as well, making him expiring, but this deal is baffling to me. The lack of depth at center is at present, troubling to me & I can't say I am thrilled that (apparently) POR has decided to shelf Telfair for the year, which makes ZERO sense to me.

Maybe it is the precursor to another deal? I sincerely hope so.


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## PorterIn2004

Ya know, the more I think about it, I'm not sure I'd be excited about this trade even if it were (or turns out to be) basically Damon for NVE. Particularly with Telfair in the wings, why disrupt the team this much? Even without Telfair, in recent years Damon has equaled or bettered Nick in most of the numbers I care about. I'm not even convinced Nick's a better defender (though I have to concede the three or four inches in height).

:sigh:


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## QRICH

I really think this trade sets up another one down the road. We are awfully thin at the 5 spot now. Stepania is NOT a player you can rely on to back up Ratliff.


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## Trader Ed

Rahim for Ilgauskas???

that would be a good follow up. but does not address a Ray Allen type of shooter that we so desperately need. Its a concession to fold the cards until 2005 for FA


Roster
PG Stoudamire, (NVE), Telfair
SG DA, NVE, Person?, Frahm, Woods, Monia
SF Miles, Patterson, Khrayapa
PF Randolph, Outlaw
C Ratliff, Ilgauskas, Stepenia

Overseas Ha and Sinonovic

:whoknows:


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## BlazerFanFoLife

I think NVE is a better player then DA. DA isnt Steve nash or Finley. NVE will start further into the season


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## QRICH

Maybe we could package Rahim/Damon ? That's something like $26 million in expiring contracts, that's gotta be appealing to a lot of teams. Not too mention SAR is a 20/10 player...in the right situation (like starting for one).


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## PorterIn2004

> Originally posted by <b>Lakota_Blazer</b>!
> Maybe we could package Rahim/Damon ? That's something like $26 million in expiring contracts, that's gotta be appealing to a lot of teams. Not too mention SAR is a 20/10 player...in the right situation (like starting for one).


Yeah, that's not a bad idea, Lakota. As for NVE being a better player than DA, I'm not sure I'd agree regardless of position. I'm certain I wouldn't agree if we're asking both to be two-guards. Damon, short as he is, is really only a little short for a PG and at a position where it probably matters least. NVE gives up more in height to most SGs than Damon does PGs and it likely matters more because shooting guards (at least theoretically) *shoot* more than point guards.

Honestly, I don't think there's room on this team for both Damon and Nick -- even less so than Zach and SAR. And then there's finding some minutes for Telfair, which simply won't happen with both Damon and Nick around. The more I think about it, the more inclined I am to think it's either a bogus report or there's already something set-up to move Damon. And, as I said somewhere else, if the trade somehow becomes basically Damon for NVE, I'm thinking it's worst than having not made a move.


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## Iwatas

There simply *must* be another trade coming, such that this deal is just to make sure that Telfair is not stuck with the starting job this year. 

In order for this deal to make sense, Van Exel is a stop-gap measure to give us a starting PG for one year and maybe two. It suggests that management thinks Telfair will be ready to start in a year or two, which would be super news. 

SO: some kind of a deal is going down which moves Damon. It is also the best explanation for why Cheeks was upset when he returned yesterday after a quick conference with Nash. We all know Cheeks loves Damon and his idiotic play. 

So the question of the day is: what is the second deal? Damon+SAR for Z + X? Damon and SAR for Allen + X? You'd have to guess it is going to be those two guys. And one way or the other, the Blazers need a 2G (esp. since nobody is pushing hard for Monia to come), and they need a backup PF/C. Would we live with Damon+Ruben for Allan Houston? I would, but it's not my dough.  I'd also be happy to throw Damon into the trade, and get Dampier in a S&T.

This deal means that Damon's number is next, and that is *excellent* news. Knowing that management has decided that Damon is on his way out adds a little spring to my step. 

The other shoe is going to drop. The worst outcome would be if the second deal falls through, and we end up with 2 egotistical, impossible shoot-first point guards, no backup center, and no 2G worth his salt. 

Let's hope Nash is competent enough to finish what he apparently has started.


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## Iwatas

Someone on O-Live suggested that the trade might NOT be a precursor to getting another big man. Instead, ZBo and SAR would play some backup 5. The trade might have freed up space (Dale played 22 minutes a game, after all). If it is just those 3 players, then there are 30-35 minutes apiece; plenty for all. Of course, this depends on 6'9" SAR, 6'9" Zbo, and 6'10" Ratliff as the entire front line. I'd sure be a lot happier to see SAR traded for Z, or possibly even Dampier...

But if management is going to stay pat on the Big Men, we'd better hope that Damon + someone is traded for a quality 2G. Otherwise the trade still makes little sense.


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## Goldmember

If this is true, I love it. Van Exel can stick it from the outside and he's super clutch. The big problem though is with Damon and puts Telfair planted on the bench. Forget about a backcourt of Damon and Van Exel, that's just too small. 

If this was still Trader Bob's team I could see him making this move with nothing else in the works and just letting the coach sort it out. Nash however is supposed to be more concerned with chemistry so I imagine (pray) that Damon is on his way out. 

As for Dale, this would be a minimal loss. Dale isn't much better than Vlad at this point in his career. 

Seattle needs a point guard right? Whoever mentioned Damon and Reef for Ray Allen + crap is really onto something.

Van Exel 
Ray Allen 
Darius Miles
Zach 
Theo

Telfair 
DA 
Ruben 
Qyntel
Outlaw 
Darius Rice/whoever 
Vlady Daddy

You got inside, outside, defense, clutch, playmaking, hustle, depth and good balance of young bucks and seasoned vets. It's all there. We could use another big man off the pine, but that's one nice little lineup.

:drool:


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## MJG

This is one of those trades that looks like a steal on paper, but for reasons many others have mentioned, may not actually do much for the team. You definitely need to wait to see just who the filler is (could be Woods for all anyone knows), and if there's any followup moves coming.


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## HOWIE

> Originally posted by <b>Trader Bob</b>!
> GS Sends NVE $11.21 mil (They are over the cap by a bit. They can take back about $9.74 mil as a minimum
> 
> Portland sends Davis $9 mil expiring + Dickau $0.9 mil = $9 .9 mil
> 
> Works perfectly
> 
> GS sheds team salary, saves tax money
> 
> Note: NVE has a team option in 2005/06. With his salary being more than Davis and Dickau. We can excercise the right to say no and it becomes an expiring contract. Piece of cake. No added taxes to pay since it will be off the books.
> 
> Also, it would be sweet to get Dunleavy as our SF. Sending Ruben or Miles and Woods would be nice. Maybe add a pick and/or cash
> 
> 
> *We will need another backup C if this happens.
> Rahim for Z *:gopray:


Excellent call! I wonder if Ed O is pulling out his dance shoes as I type, but that would leave Portland a little short in the PH department wouldn't it or do you see Ruben Patterson sliding over to cover some minutes at the "4"?


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## HOWIE

Maybe there is going to be an Arvydas Sabonis sighting in the next few day. That could solve the back up "5" spot in a jiffy!

I just find it a little wierd that John Nash was all about keeping SAR's contract so it would fall off the books next off season only to trade Dale Davis's expiring contract for NVE? Interesting.


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## tlong

Are you guys sure this isn't some kind of crank? I've seen nothing on O-Live or ESPN.COM that mentions a trade like this. Sounds like somebody's making something up to me.


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## NateBishop3

that's what I'm wondering....

Not even the Oregonian is reporting this trade... Sounds like it could be a farse...


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## cimalee

I think the deal is just not finalized yet , If its the real deal it will be announced today


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## Blazer Freak

Jesus. If getting more sleep means missing out on Blazer news.. SLEEP NO MORE! Damn. NVE for DD and Dickau. Well we do get a better PG, and he is a great out side shooter. Is NVE a good entry passer? IF this trade goes through I think that Frahm will be cut.


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## Dan

so...we fix the SG and shooting problem by trading for a guy who's a PG and is 6'1" and really not that good of a shooter?

This has to be a pre-curser to a trade, or we're setting up for a train wreck.

And if NVE is the difference maker on THIS team...that "difference" is the difference between 'really crappy' and 'only somewhat crappy'.


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## Blazer Freak

Did they say it was with GS? Or did someone just say that it works. I am thinking it was the latter choice. Remember people Nash isnt that stupid, if this trade goes through then there has to be a followup trade. Wouldn't we have 1 more year of NVE then of Damon? If so, then maybe they feel that they would rather have NVE 1 more year than Damon so that they6 dont have to sign Damon to a longer contract and after NVE's contract is up Telfair will be ready for 40 mpg.


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## tlong

I'm calling BS on this deal. Not gonna happen. Lakota_Blazer and mediocre_man must have been PM'ing each other last night with the intent of putting one over on the folks in here. Let's go back to discussing Telfair's 6 TO's last night and what that averages out to over 48 minutes. :grinning:


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## B_&_B

> Originally posted by <b>tlong</b>!
> I'm calling BS on this deal. Not gonna happen. Lakota_Blazer and mediocre_man must have been PM'ing each other last night with the intent of putting one over on the folks in here. Let's go back to discussing Telfair's 6 TO's last night and what that averages out to over 48 minutes. :grinning:


I agree.
NVE isnt a good character guy either, another reason why I doubt this trade will happen. If any trade goes down with G.State, I hope its for Dampier, not NVE.


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## CrGiants

As Steve Jones pointed out last night, players like Telfair cannot develop to their potential when they are sitting on the bench. I was looking forward to watching him play 10-15 minutes a night this year (perhaps a little hopeful early on, but probably not so much as the season wears on).

I do not like this deal if it means Telfair will not get the chance to play this season. And since that appears likely, I do not like this deal.

As everyone else has said, I cannot see this happening. Damon would be unhappy, NVE would be unhappy, and Telfair would be disappointed. Oh, and add that to Rahim, Patterson, and Miles (if he stays), and we're suddenly doom and gloom.


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## Ed O

> Originally posted by <b>HOWIE</b>!
> 
> Excellent call! I wonder if Ed O is pulling out his dance shoes as I type, but that would leave Portland a little short in the PH department wouldn't it or do you see Ruben Patterson sliding over to cover some minutes at the "4"?


I don't know that Z would elicit a banana dance from me anymore. This time last year, when we were a more experienced and better team, adding Z would have been the difference potentially between HCA and not. Now, I doubt he'd even help us get into the playoffs.

No, it's going to take a remarkable deal to get me to do a banana dance... 

And, incidentally, adding NVE wouldn't be anything approaching that level of a trade. Depending on the filler, what an irrelevant trade that would be.

Ed O.


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## Yega1979

You guys are getting excited about Nick Van Exel?:no: 

Look up his stats from last season, they are Derek Andersonesq
39% from the field 30% from 3pt. He's also pretty old and reportedly only wants to play for a Texas team. And it's not like we unloaded a bad contract like DA, because Davis also had an expiring contract.

Not a bad trade as it gives us a backup guard but nothing to get excited about.


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## O2K

how about 

dale davis/dan dikau/patterson

for 

j. rich/nve


then later

damon/sar

to nj

nj sends kidd to seattle and seattle sends us ray

then we send j rich and maybe woods to cleveland for illgauskis (clevelands center i hate his name >: o)

that gives us a line up of

nve/telfair
allen/da
miles/
randolph
theo/illgauskissskjgagl

i guess it works out leaves us a little thin, if anyone can if you like it try to run the numbers


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## Maybeso

*If there was more playing time at power forward, I think Shareef would be more willin*

Over on O-Live is an article about Richie Frahm. At the bottom of that article is the following Nash quote:



> Nash said he is not influenced by agent Aaron Goodwin's threat to keep Shareef Abdur-Rahim out of Blazers training camp if he is not traded, adding: "I would like to make everyone happy, but that is not my role. I have had conversations with Shareef and Aaron and we continue to monitor what is available in trade opportunities. If there was more playing time at power forward, I think Shareef would be more willing to stay. And his professional attitude last season was such that I would like to accommodate him. But my first goal is to do what's best for the Trail Blazers, and it just might be best for the Trail Blazers to exchange Shareef for a player at another position, specifically a guard, but we haven't been able to determine an opportunity we like." . . .


Could it be just a move to free up playing time at the 4 to keep SAR happy?


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## Blazerfan024

Trade was in this mornings columbian in a small article.


Said deal was almost finalized..Ill try to find link.


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## ProudBFan

If this isn't a 3-way (possibly involving one of the Texas Trio), then I'd put money on DA being the one on the block with DD, not Damon. NVE's contract is a year or two shorter than DA's, right? And we all know NVE loves to shoot the rock. So the Blazers move DD and DA to GS for NVE + Another, start Damon at PG, start NVE at SG, get Telfair some minutes backing up Damon... that sounds almost workable... IF...

...they find a way to plug the hole behind Theo.

Sabonis, anyone?

PBF


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## tlong

If Sabonis was coming back I would like this deal. Otherwise, it is idiotic.


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## Blazerfan024

> Originally posted by <b>ProudBFan</b>!
> If this isn't a 3-way (possibly involving one of the Texas Trio), then I'd put money on DA being the one on the block with DD, not Damon. NVE's contract is a year or two shorter than DA's, right? And we all know NVE loves to shoot the rock. So the Blazers move DD and DA to GS for NVE + Another, start Damon at PG, start NVE at SG, get Telfair some minutes backing up Damon... that sounds almost workable... IF...
> 
> ...they find a way to plug the hole behind Theo.
> 
> Sabonis, anyone?
> 
> PBF


Very good point and would make nash look good if he could unload DA still have a decent back court and plug the hole we could actually maybe be a playoff team..


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## Stepping Razor

*My crazy idea*

How's this for a (completely made up by me, yet perhaps still plausible?) way of making this trade actually make sense:

Make it a 3-way with our friends up I-5.

To wit:

Golden State Trades:
Nick Van Exel
Jason Richardson

Golden State Receives:
Dale Davis
Ruben Patterson
Portland 1st Round Draft Pick (Lotto Protected)
Seattle 2nd Round Draft Pick 

Seattle Trades:
Ray Allen
Antonio Daniels
Calvin Booth
Vitaly Potapenko
2nd Round Draft Pick

Seattle Receives:
Jason Richardson
Shareef Abdur-Rahim
Damon Stoudamire

Portland Trades:
Damon Stoudamire
Shareef Abdur-Rahim
Dale Davis
Ruben Patterson
1st Round Draft Pick

Portland Receives:
Ray Allen
Antonio Daniels
Calvin Booth
Vitaly Potapenko
Nick Van Exel

(This works under the cap, according to RealGM.)

Why would Golden State do this?
I'm not entirely sure. If KGW is correct, it seems that for some reason they actualy want DD on their team. Many people down here in the Bay Area think that Pietrus is an emerging star at SG, making J-Rich expendable. But would the Warriors really expend him for Rube? I'm not sure, I think they need more. Portland, with all its youngsters already in development, could surely throw in a 1st rounder next year. To sweeten the pot even more, we could also give a bunch of prospects and/or cheap expiring contracts (say, for example, Woods, Dickau, Ha, and Stepania) for big stiff Evan Eschmayer, and the trade still works salary-cap wise. I'm still not sure this is makes a lot of sense for the Warriors -- at least not as much as for the Blazers and Sonics -- but, then, the Warriors' moves almost never seem to make much sense anyway.

Why Would Seattle Do This?
I think this deal is awesome for the Sonics. They lose Ray, but they get a huge infusion of cap-friendly talent in return. Their team, with a bunch of promising youngsters surrounding a core of SAR, Rashard, J-Rich, and Damon, will be better this year, plus they can shed the contract of Booth, which will allow them to be huge free agent players next summer once Reef and Mighty Mouse expire.

Why Would Portland Do This?
Without moving any of our most cherished assets (which I count as Randolph, Ratliff, Miles, Telfair, and perhaps Monya, Khryapa, and Outlaw), we are able to land Ray Allen, the superstar sweet-shooting 2 guard we have all been dreaming for. We also get a one-year loan of Nick Van Exel, who can (if uninjured) keep the PG spot warm until Telfair takes over next year. We also get back Antonio Daniles, who I think is really underrated as a backup combo guard who can play good D and make some shots. If Nick is hurt or retires, I think we could get by with an AD/Telfair PG rotation for this year. Booth's contract stinks, but it expires at the same time as DA's equally stinky deal, so the long-term cap ramifications aren't really that bad, and I think Booth would actually be a huge improvement over DD and Stepania as a defensive backup big man. Finally, we're stuck with Potapenko, who apparently is a drunk as well as a stiff. But his contract is expiring, and he has to be included to make this thing work under the cap.

Your 2004-05 Portland Trailblazers:

PG NVE / Daniels / Telfair
SG Ray Allen / DA / Daniels / Woods
SF Miles / Khryapa / Woods
PF Randolph / Booth
C Ratliff / Booth / Potapenko
IR Outlaw / Dickau / Stepania

That looks like a pretty sweet team to me. Too bad it's only a figment of my imagination.

Stepping Razor


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## Schilly

Looking things over and thinking about it last night, I have come to a couple of possible conclusions.

#1 Somehow this is a 3 way deal that lands NVE either in Houston or Dallas.

#2 Portland has a trade lined up that will send Damon and Fillers elsewhere, possibly Toronto. (eg...Damon, Shareef for Vince, Alvin, Lamond and Moiso) 

and a third longshot idea....Just to keep the Ray Allen crew happy...

Golden State trades: 
PG Nick Van Exel (12.6 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 5.3 apg in 32.2 minutes)
Golden State receives: 
C Dale Davis (4.4 ppg, 5.2 rpg, 1.0 apg in 22.1 minutes)
PG Dan Dickau	(2.2 ppg, 0.6 rpg, 0.9 apg in 6.8 minutes)


Portland trades: 
PF Shareef Abdur-Rahim	(16.3 ppg, 7.5 rpg, 2.0 apg in 31.6 minutes)
C Dale Davis	(4.4 ppg, 5.2 rpg, 1.0 apg in 22.1 minutes)
PG Dan Dickau	(2.2 ppg, 0.6 rpg, 0.9 apg in 6.8 minutes)
Portland receives: 
SG Ray Allen	(23.0 ppg, 5.1 rpg, 4.8 apg in 56 games)
C Vitaly Potapenko	(7.1 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 0.8 apg in 65 games)
C Calvin Booth	(4.9 ppg, 3.9 rpg, 0.4 apg in 71 games)


Seattle trades: 
SG Ray Allen	(23.0 ppg, 5.1 rpg, 4.8 apg in 38.4 minutes)
C Vitaly Potapenko	(7.1 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 0.8 apg in 21.8 minutes)
C Calvin Booth	(4.9 ppg, 3.9 rpg, 0.4 apg in 17.0 minutes)
Seattle receives: 
PG Nick Van Exel	(12.6 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 5.3 apg in 39 games)
PF Shareef Abdur-Rahim	(16.3 ppg, 7.5 rpg, 2.0 apg in 85 games)


TRADE ACCEPTED


----------



## BioxHazard1

portland got the better of this. ever since dale davis' all-star season in indiana, he has been a terrible player and hasn't contributed anything to the team. Nick the Quick can be a really good addition if he decides to play and not fake his injuries again


----------



## Kmurph

If it is Davis and whomever for NVE, this trade will hurt more than help POR IMO.

SAR or Zebo playing b\u center minutes? Are you kidding me?

Stepania at b\u center? 

Jin or Sinanovic at b\u center? 

All of these questions with a starting center who has a history of injuries does not bode well IMO.

:no:


----------



## Blazer Ringbearer

Maybe it's...

NVE to Dallas
Finley to Portland
Davis to GS

??

If so, that'd be quite a deal...


----------



## yangsta

what's in it for dallas?


----------



## jackiejackal

Yikes,please don't trade Ruben..
he is our down and dirty player that hustles for those loose balls.

Who becomes the new floor diver???????

I absolutely love Nick !!
Wish we had picked him up several years ago.


----------



## Ballscientist

NVE can play 15 minutes a game because of knees.


----------



## Trader Ed

> Originally posted by <b>Blazer Ringbearer</b>!
> Maybe it's...
> 
> NVE to Dallas
> Finley to Portland
> Davis to GS
> 
> ??
> 
> If so, that'd be quite a deal...



Yes, I was thinking this too. Dallas needs a PG badly.

I would rather keep Damon, than have NVE as PG. 






> Originally posted by <b>Trader Bob</b>!
> ...GS sheds team salary, saves tax money
> 
> Note: NVE has a team option in 2005/06. With his salary being more than Davis and Dickau. We can excercise the right to say no and it becomes an expiring contract. Piece of cake. No added taxes to pay since it will be off the books.


NVE has a team option next year. So he can be expiring


----------



## Trader Ed

No to Finley due to contract $ and length

but Stackhouse perhaps?




NVE to Dallas
Davis to GS
Stackhouse + Najera to PDX  (can't believe I am saying this. Anyone hear of Jerry?)


----------



## Crimson the Cat

Some thoughts ...

* Pietrus is going to be good. Would GS move JRich?

* JRich is exciting enough to replace Carter

I'm betting Portland's involved in a possible 3-way with GS and Tor.

* Toronto will need a center and want to rid themselves of ugly contracts

* Portland's apparently keeping Rahim

What if ...

* Portland sends out Randolph and Davis to GS

* GS sent out JRich and a re-signed Dampier to Tor

* Portland receives Carter from Tor

I'd do this in a heartbeat.


----------



## Blazer Ringbearer

Dallas just lost Nash...

Van Exel outplayed Nash in the playoffs when he was there. They may want another year of veteran PG play before throwing Daniels to the wolves.

I think there would have to be other players involved for it to be worth it to Dallas, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were interested.

Maybe they would like to make room for Howard?


----------



## Masbee

> Originally posted by <b>Schilly</b>!
> Golden State trades:
> PG Nick Van Exel (12.6 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 5.3 apg in 32.2 minutes)
> Golden State receives:
> C Dale Davis (4.4 ppg, 5.2 rpg, 1.0 apg in 22.1 minutes)
> PG Dan Dickau	(2.2 ppg, 0.6 rpg, 0.9 apg in 6.8 minutes)
> 
> Portland trades:
> PF Shareef Abdur-Rahim	(16.3 ppg, 7.5 rpg, 2.0 apg in 31.6 minutes)
> C Dale Davis	(4.4 ppg, 5.2 rpg, 1.0 apg in 22.1 minutes)
> PG Dan Dickau	(2.2 ppg, 0.6 rpg, 0.9 apg in 6.8 minutes)
> Portland receives:
> SG Ray Allen	(23.0 ppg, 5.1 rpg, 4.8 apg in 56 games)
> C Vitaly Potapenko	(7.1 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 0.8 apg in 65 games)
> C Calvin Booth	(4.9 ppg, 3.9 rpg, 0.4 apg in 71 games)
> 
> Seattle trades:
> SG Ray Allen	(23.0 ppg, 5.1 rpg, 4.8 apg in 38.4 minutes)
> C Vitaly Potapenko	(7.1 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 0.8 apg in 21.8 minutes)
> C Calvin Booth	(4.9 ppg, 3.9 rpg, 0.4 apg in 17.0 minutes)
> Seattle receives:
> PG Nick Van Exel	(12.6 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 5.3 apg in 39 games)
> PF Shareef Abdur-Rahim	(16.3 ppg, 7.5 rpg, 2.0 apg in 85 games)
> 
> 
> TRADE ACCEPTED


This is exactly the type of deal that solves the mystery of why Portland would ship out a backup center, without getting one back, and take back a starting PG when they already have one.

Another possible variation is two separate trades. First the Dale Davis and Dickau for Nick Van Excel deal.

Then, Ray Allen and junk (Potapenko and Booth) for SAR and Damon Stoudamire.

This could be done if Seattle prefers Damon to Nick Van Excel. Both are expiring contracts, so that is equal. Though I would be happy to see a quicker end to the Damon era, he is less of an injury risk than Nick. But is the upcoming trial of Damon a factor?


----------



## Trader Ed

> Originally posted by <b>Trader Bob</b>!
> NVE to Dallas
> Davis to GS
> Stackhouse + Najera to PDX  (can't believe I am saying this. Anyone hear of Jerry?)



Agreed. And NVE wants to be a Texan. This gets him there for cheap.

Stackhouse was recently acquired though. A one on one trade works but he can not be combined with another player until later in the year.


----------



## HOWIE

> Originally posted by <b>Trader Bob</b>!
> No to Finley due to contract $ and length
> 
> but *Stackhouse* perhaps?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NVE to Dallas
> Davis to GS
> Stackhouse + Najera to PDX  (can't believe I am saying this. Anyone hear of Jerry?)


Stackhouse!!!!!!  

Where is Hap & Ed O!!!!!!!


----------



## cimalee

Iam so excited about this deal if it happens


----------



## Trader Ed

> Originally posted by <b>Schilly</b>!
> and a third longshot idea....Just to keep the Ray Allen crew happy...
> 
> Golden State trades:
> PG Nick Van Exel (12.6 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 5.3 apg in 32.2 minutes)
> Golden State receives:
> C Dale Davis (4.4 ppg, 5.2 rpg, 1.0 apg in 22.1 minutes)
> PG Dan Dickau	(2.2 ppg, 0.6 rpg, 0.9 apg in 6.8 minutes)
> 
> 
> Portland trades:
> PF Shareef Abdur-Rahim	(16.3 ppg, 7.5 rpg, 2.0 apg in 31.6 minutes)
> C Dale Davis	(4.4 ppg, 5.2 rpg, 1.0 apg in 22.1 minutes)
> PG Dan Dickau	(2.2 ppg, 0.6 rpg, 0.9 apg in 6.8 minutes)
> Portland receives:
> SG Ray Allen	(23.0 ppg, 5.1 rpg, 4.8 apg in 56 games)
> C Vitaly Potapenko	(7.1 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 0.8 apg in 65 games)
> C Calvin Booth	(4.9 ppg, 3.9 rpg, 0.4 apg in 71 games)
> 
> 
> Seattle trades:
> SG Ray Allen	(23.0 ppg, 5.1 rpg, 4.8 apg in 38.4 minutes)
> C Vitaly Potapenko	(7.1 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 0.8 apg in 21.8 minutes)
> C Calvin Booth	(4.9 ppg, 3.9 rpg, 0.4 apg in 17.0 minutes)
> Seattle receives:
> PG Nick Van Exel	(12.6 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 5.3 apg in 39 games)
> PF Shareef Abdur-Rahim	(16.3 ppg, 7.5 rpg, 2.0 apg in 85 games)
> 
> 
> TRADE ACCEPTED




Man Schilly.... make me drool :drool:

ROSTER
PG Stoudamire, Telfair, ?
SG Allen, DA, Woods, Monia
SF Miles, Paterson, Khrayapa
PF Randolph, Booth, Outlaw
C Ratliff, Potapenko, Stepania

HA and Sinonovic overseas


----------



## cimalee

the deal is close quick says 



http://www.oregonlive.com/weblogs/blazersblog/


----------



## Paxil

Consider the possibility the Portland wants Van Exel to retire.


----------



## ProudBFan

I doubt it would happen, but...

_
Portland trades:
C Dale Davis (4.4 ppg, 5.2 rpg, 1.0 apg in 22.1 minutes)
SG Derek Anderson (13.6 ppg, 3.6 rpg, 4.5 apg in 35.5 minutes) 

Portland receives:
PG Nick Van Exel (12.6 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 5.3 apg in 32.2 minutes)
SG Jason Richardson (18.7 ppg, 6.7 rpg, 2.9 apg in 37.6 minutes)

Change in team outlook: +13.3 ppg, +0.6 rpg, and +2.7 apg. 

Golden State trades:

PG Nick Van Exel (12.6 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 5.3 apg in 32.2 minutes)
SG Jason Richardson (18.7 ppg, 6.7 rpg, 2.9 apg in 37.6 minutes)

Golden State receives:

C Dale Davis (4.4 ppg, 5.2 rpg, 1.0 apg in 76 games)
SG Derek Anderson (13.6 ppg, 3.6 rpg, 4.5 apg in 51 games)

Change in team outlook: -13.3 ppg, -0.6 rpg, and -2.7 apg. 

TRADE ACCEPTED
_

PBF


----------



## KingSpeed

Van Exel and Nash got along in Dallas, why couldn't the same happen with Van Exel and Damon? Or maybe we're gettin Ray Allen. That would rule.


----------



## Yega1979

Ahh, the Sonics are not going to trade Ray Allen for SAR. Allen is simply a better player. That trade makes no sense for them. It's just like the nets offering Kerry Kittles for SAR.

I'm sure we could get Rashad Lewis, but the Blazers may feel Darius Rice is too similar to Lewis coming at 1/10th the price!


----------



## ProudBFan

What if the deal goes down exactly as rumored? That is to say, Davis + Dickau to GS for Van Exel?

Can Damon and Van Exel coexist at PG?

Can DA and Van Exel coexist at SG?

Will Telfair see any PT at all this season?

How do the Blazers get depth at C behind Theo?

PBF


----------



## jackiejackal

here is the part that worries me..

"It will leave Portland a little thin at backup center for now"


----------



## yangsta

Well I'd say about 60% of the teams in the league are thin at the C.. we're lucky we have theo.


----------



## Storyteller

> Originally posted by <b>Paxil</b>!
> Consider the possibility the Portland wants Van Exel to retire.


So instead of paying Van Exel $12 million to whine and complain about playing time, Portland pays him $12 million to do absolutely nothing?

That makes no sense to me. Are the minutes at backup C really that crowded that Portland needs to free up time in a "throwaway" move like this?


----------



## duckman1734

> Originally posted by <b>ProudBFan</b>!
> What if the deal goes down exactly as rumored? That is to say, Davis + Dickau to GS for Van Exel?
> 
> Can Damon and Van Exel coexist at PG?


No, and Damon should still start, only because he has been around longer and will (should) try harder because he wants to be here, more than likely NVE doesn't. Damon knows the offense and needs to prove this year he can run it, that will be the difference, which one will pass?



> Can DA and Van Exel coexist at SG?


DA still starts, you can't lose that much size for a long period of time in a game. NVE is better but DA is bigger and more athletic.


> Will Telfair see any PT at all this season?


He better, but probably won't.


> How do the Blazers get depth at C behind Theo?


I think Stepania's fine but they still have the MLE. No good centers left except Dampier, but remember, DD wasn't good at all last year. They should get someone, and I'm sure they won't spend the MLE on any of the available centers. Trade Damon or DA for a center I guess.


The blazers need to find a way to get Ray Allen, and also find a roster spot for Darius Rice after they cut Frahm. :yes:


----------



## Kmurph

I think a deal with DAL for NVE is a possibility. Particularly since they are going to have to rely on a 1st year player (Daniels) and a rookie (Harris) to man the PG spot. For a team trying to win an NBA title or at minimum advance well into to NBA playoff, that SHOULD be a source of concern. 

NVE could only be involved in a trade by himself, so who would DAL be willing to trade back for NVE (keeping in mind, that his $12mil team option next year could be a nice expiring contract for a team overloaded with salary like DAL is)

Could POR turn around and deal NVE to DAL for Michael Finley?

or perhaps Antoine Walker and his expiring contract?

Or does this now open up an opportunity with TOR for Vince Carter?

Carter & Rose for SAR, Damon, Outlaw (or Qyntel) and a future 1st?

BTW, POR has offered Hassell a 4yr deal as well


St Paul Pioneer Press 



> Insiders say the Portland Trail Blazers have offered restricted Timberwolves free agent Trenton Hassell a $16 million, four-year deal. The Wolves can match the offer and retain him


----------



## Paxil

So Cal Blazer Fan- we don't pay him if he retires. I doubt he would be stupid enough to throw that money away, but he may accept some type of buyout.

I just have a hard time believing Van Exel at ALL fits the image the Blazers are trying to move to. I just don't get it... unless there is something else going on.


----------



## Storyteller

*It's a full article by Quick now*

From O-Live 



> The Trail Blazers are close to acquiring Golden State guard Nick Van Exel in a trade that would send veteran center Dale Davis and reserve guard Dan Dickau to the Warriors.
> 
> It is very close, said Chubby Wells, the agent for Davis.


I also hear that Spanky Pelinka, Alfalfa Goodwin and Froggy Manley are giving the deal a thumbs up.


----------



## Storyteller

> Originally posted by <b>Paxil</b>!
> So Cal Blazer Fan- we don't pay him if he retires. I doubt he would be stupid enough to throw that money away, but he may accept some type of buyout.
> 
> I just have a hard time believing Van Exel at ALL fits the image the Blazers are trying to move to. I just don't get it... unless there is something else going on.


Of course the Blazers pay him if he retires.

He just exercised a player option for this year. If he wanted to retire and not get paid, he could have done it months ago. But he wants the money. He doesn't have to give a reason. He can retire anytime he wants and his guaranteed contract still gets paid and counts against the cap.

Granted, sometimes players who retire will give up their rights to guaranteed money. But not in this case. No way.

And why accept a buyout? There's absolutely no advantage for him - unless it was an $11 million buyout that allowed him to become a FA so that he could sign with Dallas for $1 million. But what's the incentive for Portland to do that?

As I said earlier, this rumor makes no sense to me at all.....


----------



## Peaceman

I think Portland can get away with Zach and SAR playing backup center minutes most nights. The NBA has very few true centers and DD isn't one of them anyway. Big Z, Shaq, Nesterovic(maybe), Dampier, and Magliore. Did I miss any good centers?


----------



## Kmurph

> think Portland can get away with Zach and SAR playing backup center minutes


I don't think POR can get away with that at all and worse if Theo goes down with an injury (and this has been known to happen) we are left in a world of hurt.


----------



## Trader Ed

I Could still see turning around and sending NVE to Dallas easily. He can go as long as he is the only one.

With rumors of Carter and Dallas in the past, and Snapper suddenly so high on Carter, perhaps the follow up deal is NVE to Dallas.

Dallas sends ? to Toronto, Toronto sends Carter to PDX?
We could send Toronto extras in a follow up deal.



I just do not see us preferring NVE over Damon, thus sending Damon out in another trade.

Damon was a good team player last year. And believe it or not. I would prefer him over NVE. He is familiar with the team, and he is injury free adn quick. Just short!


I just do not belive NVE will ever wear a Blazer uniform. It does nto make any sense. Especially since he is so adiment to play for a Texas team, and Dallas needing him so badly.


----------



## Crimson the Cat

This just doesn't add up.

I'd be upset if Portland was adding either/both Van Exel and Hassell (if for the above contract).

Huge mistake.

Portland would be better off standing pat, IMO. Must be another shoe falling off, if this occurs.


----------



## AxS50

> Originally posted by <b>So Cal Blazer Fan</b>!
> Of course the Blazers pay him if he retires.


Is this really so? You are usually right in CBA related stuff, but I find this one so hard to believe. 

So basically a healthy 34-year old player who is under contract for nex season can say 'I"m retiring' ans still get paid for sitting at home? I always thought if a player retires for no apparent medical reason, he leaves the money at the table.


----------



## edgaraven

Hi.. I'm new to this board (I'm a Suns fan - been posting there and a few other boards). 

Just thought I'd chime in on the Davis rumor. I just posted on the Warriors board that I didn't see why the Blazers would want to add NVE to a backcourt that already has a large expiring contract in Stoudamire. Ironically, I think the Blazers might think Stoudamire would be a better 'role model' for their PG of the future, Telfair. Van Exel's typically been a malcontent whenever he's not in a winning situation, and I'm sure that type of attitude doesn't mesh with Nash's ideas for his team.

From that angle, I think there might be another team involved. Dallas does make a lot of sense. Van Exel has a home in Texas, he knows the Maverick system, and he'd probably get at least as much PT (if not more) than when he was there last time as the backup to Steve Nash. 

I doubt the Mavericks would give up Finley, as big as his contract is, but Walker seems like a real possibility. I think Portland would have to send more over to the Mavericks to make the salaries match. I'm not sure. Maybe Ruben Patterson for Tony Delk?

With Antoine Walker in Portland, the Blazers would have options. If Darius Miles gets too big an offer, they could let him go. Better yet, they could more actively pursue a deal to send out Shareef. My suggestion is Shareef to Minnesota for Ervin Johnson and Wally Szczerbiak. Szczerbiak'd give some much needed outside shooting to the Blazers, and Johnson could backup Ratliff.


----------



## Storyteller

> Originally posted by <b>AxS50</b>!
> 
> Is this really so? You are usually right in CBA related stuff, but I find this one so hard to believe.
> 
> So basically a healthy 34-year old player who is under contract for nex season can say 'I"m retiring' ans still get paid for sitting at home? I always thought if a player retires for no apparent medical reason, he leaves the money at the table.


There are two levels here.

The first level is the legal one. The CBA says that it is the discretion of the team as to what to pay a retired player. Then, any money actually paid to the player counts against the cap.

The second level is the trickier one. It's the level of politics, greed, negotiations, etc. You know, the level of reality in the NBA today.

Realize that Van Exel does not have to retire. If the Blazers are making this trade with the expectation of him retiring, that means he holds all the cards. He has the power. So essentially, the team has to pay him if they expect him to retire. He just exercised a player option - that tells me that instead of retiring and getting nothing, he either wants to pay (and be paid $12 million) or retire and be paid $12 million.

Put simply, he has a guaranteed contract and he's going to get that money. Whether he's sitting on the bench and being a distraction for the Blazers or starting for the Mavericks or sitting at home watching games on television, he'll get his $12 million. That's the way things work in the league today.

The "rules" of the CBA don't dictate that he'll be paid if he retires. The "rules" of the reality of today's NBA do.


----------



## GOD

I WANT NEWS NOW!!!

last night I heard the kgw report and havee been waiting with baited breath ever since to find out exactly what is going on. I want some sort of news. Are there any Nash/Patterson/cheeks interviews coming up anytime soon? any press confrences? any GS press confrences?

I need my Blazers fix.



P.S. I am now a member of the 500 club.


----------



## Minstrel

> Originally posted by <b>So Cal Blazer Fan</b>!
> 
> 
> Of course the Blazers pay him if he retires.
> 
> He just exercised a player option for this year. If he wanted to retire and not get paid, he could have done it months ago. But he wants the money. He doesn't have to give a reason. He can retire anytime he wants and his guaranteed contract still gets paid and counts against the cap.
> 
> Granted, sometimes players who retire will give up their rights to guaranteed money. But not in this case. No way.


Are you sure that's true? There's no breach of contract due to simply not fulfilling your part (as the player) of a contract you signed, when you are capable of doing so (i.e. not due to injury)?

So, a player could sign a 7-year deal for $100 million dollars and, the moment after signing it, say, "Okay, I'm retired. I won't be playing a second for you over the next 7 years, but I expect my paychecks to keep coming"?

I find it very hard to believe that "guaranteed money" is guaranteed even against voluntary non-performance.


----------



## mook

> Originally posted by <b>edgaraven</b>!
> Hi.. I'm new to this board (I'm a Suns fan - been posting there and a few other boards).
> 
> Just thought I'd chime in on the Davis rumor. I just posted on the Warriors board that I didn't see why the Blazers would want to add NVE to a backcourt that already has a large expiring contract in Stoudamire. Ironically, I think the Blazers might think Stoudamire would be a better 'role model' for their PG of the future, Telfair. Van Exel's typically been a malcontent whenever he's not in a winning situation, and I'm sure that type of attitude doesn't mesh with Nash's ideas for his team.
> .....
> With Antoine Walker in Portland, the Blazers would have options. If Darius Miles gets too big an offer, they could let him go. Better yet, they could more actively pursue a deal to send out Shareef. My suggestion is Shareef to Minnesota for Ervin Johnson and Wally Szczerbiak. Szczerbiak'd give some much needed outside shooting to the Blazers, and Johnson could backup Ratliff.


Wally has one of the worst contracts in the NBA. it's big and it goes on for seemingly decades. Portland is better off from a financial angle (which is much more important now than it used to be) just letting SAR walk next summer. 

As for Damon vs NVE, I think it's a tossup of whose the better PG to put in front of Telfair. 

Damon's been arrested several times, and was dumb enough to try to sneak pot on a plane wrapped up in tinfoil. Damon has groused and refused to play when he didn't get his way. Damon actually overdribbles even more than NVE. You don't hear about his flaws much because the Portland beat writer has a weird obsession of the greatness of the Mouse. 

Myself, I'd rather see NVE as the only PG in front of Telfair. Damon has too much of a sense of entitlement. Even Cheeks refers to it as "Damon's Team." 

I'd rather sign Nick on board and let Randolph, Ratliff, Nick and Telfair take over more of the reigns of leadership. 

Also, it'll force Cheeks to think in new ways. Cheeks only makes changes when their imposed on him, and somehow dumping Damon while adding NVE would be an excellent opportunity to do just that.


----------



## Minstrel

> Originally posted by <b>So Cal Blazer Fan</b>!
> 
> Realize that Van Exel does not have to retire. If the Blazers are making this trade with the expectation of him retiring, that means he holds all the cards. He has the power.
> ...
> The "rules" of the CBA don't dictate that he'll be paid if he retires. The "rules" of the reality of today's NBA do.


Okay, so essentially what you're saying is that if the *team* wants him to not show up, they still have to pay him. But surely if the player decides to retire, not at team urging, he can't expect to see a cent?


----------



## arenas809

> Originally posted by <b>Trader Bob</b>!
> We will need another backup C if this happens.
> Rahim for Z :gopray:


:laugh: 

You'll win the lottery before that happens...


----------



## Leroy131

The latest I heard on 1080 was that this is going to be a 3-way deal. The hold-up are the details of Erick Dampier's contract in a S&T to a 3rd team...


----------



## arenas809

> Originally posted by <b>Leroy131</b>!
> The latest I heard on 1080 was that this is going to be a 3-way deal. The hold-up are the details of Erick Dampier's contract in a S&T to a 3rd team...


Knicks?


----------



## MAS RipCity

This can only get worse if the knicks are involved, I don't want any of their trash.


----------



## Schilly

Ohh no....Not Alan Houston!


----------



## MAS RipCity

KGW News at Noon will have an updatee and details on the trade.


----------



## Leroy131

I'm not sure why it would have to be a 3-way deal. The most probable deal I've heard rumored was Dampier to the Grizz for Swift. Unless we were getting a player from the 3rd team, I don't get it...


----------



## MAS RipCity

Only 2 players I'd take from the Knicks, Starbury, not happening, and Kurt Thomas, they value him too high, won't happen either.


----------



## Trader Ed

I still think its Dallas


Maybe Davis + Dickau to GS

NVE to Dallas

Walker to Portland? (Rahim would squeel big time then)



Would we want Dampier? nahhhhhhh
Nothing in NY we want at all, I would think


----------



## arenas809

> Originally posted by <b>Leroy131</b>!
> I'm not sure why it would have to be a 3-way deal. The most probable deal I've heard rumored was Dampier to the Grizz for Swift. Unless we were getting a player from the 3rd team, I don't get it...


You must have missed the GS/NY trade involving Dampier that was reported about 24 hours ago...


----------



## Trader Ed

> Originally posted by <b>Schilly</b>!
> Ohh no....Not Alan Houston!


Just say no :nonono:


Although getting Houston for Davis and Dickau would be nice. His contract is just horrible


----------



## MAS RipCity

> Originally posted by <b>Trader Bob</b>!
> I still think its Dallas
> 
> 
> Maybe Davis + Dickau to GS
> 
> NVE to Dallas
> 
> Walker to Portland? (Rahim would squeel big time then)
> 
> 
> 
> Would we want Dampier? nahhhhhhh
> Nothing in NY we want at all, I would think


PLEASE NO! Walker and DA both jacking up random shots...may as well reserve spots at the hospital for me because a heart attack is looming with those 2 on the court. Walker sucks bad. NO MAS!:no:


----------



## Storyteller

> Originally posted by <b>Minstrel</b>!
> 
> Are you sure that's true? There's no breach of contract due to simply not fulfilling your part (as the player) of a contract you signed, when you are capable of doing so (i.e. not due to injury)?
> 
> So, a player could sign a 7-year deal for $100 million dollars and, the moment after signing it, say, "Okay, I'm retired. I won't be playing a second for you over the next 7 years, but I expect my paychecks to keep coming"?
> 
> I find it very hard to believe that "guaranteed money" is guaranteed even against voluntary non-performance.


If a player refuses to play or show up, yes, he's in breach of contract. "Guaranteed" money is not alway guaranteed, you're correct. But that's not what I'm arguing here. I'm not talking about a situation where the team wants and expects a player to play. My response has been to Paxil's comment on page 7 of this thread of "Consider the possibility the Portland wants Van Exel to retire."

My earlier post said that he'll either get paid $12 million to whine and complain about playing time (ie, stay on the Blazers) or get paid $12 million to retire.

My argument is that Van Exel wants the $12 million, and he will do whatever it takes to get it. If the Blazers expect him to retire (the point made by Paxil), it will cost them $12 million. There's no reason for him to accept less. Not when he can make that money by staying active, which I believe firmly that he's willing to do.

He holds the cards. If it's true that the Blazers make this trade with the expectation of him retiring, then they need to understand the $12 million price tag that will come with it.

And, as I said earlier, the only alternative that I can see to this is if he accepts an $11 million buyout so that he can play with Dallas for the $1.1 million minimum.


----------



## MAS RipCity

The reported 3 way is awesome!

We are getting Van Exel and Nazr Mohammed. We are getting rid of DD, Dickau, and now Patterson.


----------



## Kmurph

Someone on O-Live (positive thinking perhaps? or somethjing of substance?) the 3 team deal was b\t POR\GS\NY

With POR getting NVE and NAzr Mohammed and losing Dale Davis, Dan Dickau and Ruben Pattersen (I am assuming to NY). Can anyone work out a potential 3-way involving those principles.

Not a bad deal for POR IMO, if true.


----------



## Minstrel

> Originally posted by <b>So Cal Blazer Fan</b>!
> 
> But that's not what I'm arguing here. I'm not talking about a situation where the team wants and expects a player to play. My response has been to Paxil's comment on page 7 of this thread of "Consider the possibility the Portland wants Van Exel to retire."


Right, I know you were responding to that. I interpreted Paxil's comment to be that Portland hopes Van Exel will *choose* to retire (rather than play for a possible lottery team). In which case, Portland wouldn't owe him anything.

I see that you took his comment as Portland forcing him to "retire" by telling him not to show up.


----------



## Trader Ed

KGW says its official in the last few minutes


----------



## Blazerfan024

KGW just said only 2 way deal with Davis and hometown FAVORITe dan dickau for NVE. Supposed to be completed in afternoon.


----------



## MAS RipCity

> Originally posted by <b>Trader Bob</b>!
> KGW says its official in the last few minutes


:clap: still an excellent trade, and those fans they interviewed don't know shiest. One dude said Davis was one of our best ball players? Did he ever watch Dale?


----------



## ProudBFan

> Originally posted by <b>Leroy131</b>!
> The latest I heard on 1080 was that this is going to be a 3-way deal. The hold-up are the details of Erick Dampier's contract in a S&T to a 3rd team...


I KNEW it!

1. Simply adding NVE to the Blazers didn't make much sense. It would have crowded Telfair out of the PG rotation this season, and possibly caused friction with Damon, DA, or both.

2. Trading DD for NVE would have left us thin at Center behind Theo.

3. NVE has emphatically stated that the only trade he would accept would be one that sent him to Texas (any of the Texas Trio, reportedly).

I'm betting on Dallas, as they are in *desperate* need of a PG now. But...

...will NVE go to Dallas, or will NVE come here to Portland and Damon go to Dallas? Seems to me that the Blazers would be giving up a butt-load of salary in the latter scenario and that GS and Dallas combined would be hard-pressed to send enough salary (that they'd be willing to part with) back to Portland to make it work.

So, right now, I'm assuming that the Blazers are sending DD+Dickau to GS, GS is sending NVE to Dallas and Dampier to Portland, and that Dallas is sending someone else back to GS.

PBF


----------



## Blazerfan024

> Originally posted by <b>MAS RipCity</b>!
> 
> 
> :clap: still an excellent trade, and those fans they interviewed don't know shiest. One dude said Davis was one of our best ball players? Did he ever watch Dale?


lmao at Davis are best ball players..He did play hard some games though


----------



## MAS RipCity

> Originally posted by <b>Blazerfan024</b>!
> 
> 
> He did play hard SOME games though


Nice joke, hehe...he played hard once in a while...when he felt like it. The only thing I'll miss is how he talks...it was CLASSIC!


----------



## Storyteller

> Originally posted by <b>Minstrel</b>!
> 
> Right, I know you were responding to that. I interpreted Paxil's comment to be that Portland hopes Van Exel will *choose* to retire (rather than play for a possible lottery team). In which case, Portland wouldn't owe him anything.
> 
> I see that you took his comment as Portland forcing him to "retire" by telling him not to show up.


Yes and no. I still stick to my basic contention:

Van Exel will either be part of the roster (and in Portland's case I see this as being a whine and complain fest) and earn $12 million or will garner $12 million in retirement.

That could play out in several ways (depending on different interpretations of "wants"):

1) Portland wants Van Exel to retire - meaning they tell him not to show up. This costs them $12 million, IMO.

2) Portland wants Van Exel to retire - meaning they hope that a trade to a non-Texas team will make him choose to retire. But I just don't see that happening. He wants the money, IMO, and will do whatever it takes to get it - even if it means sitting on somebody's bench and being a distraction all year. The only way that their "hope" is fulfilled in this scenario (IMO) is to pay him the $12 million to go away.


However, in the end, it costs the Blazers $12 million no matter which road is taken.


Oh, and *Minstel*, didn't we have an extended conversation about this avatar months ago? Are you really going to force me to have some "friends" of mine come and visit you?


----------



## Backboard Cam

I can't believe Nash would bring in someone of Van Exel's "character." They said they were going to be paying more attention to that. Plus he's old. And Nazr was the "next big thing" like four or five seasons ago.


----------



## edgaraven

> Originally posted by <b>theWanker</b>!
> 
> Wally has one of the worst contracts in the NBA. it's big and it goes on for seemingly decades. Portland is better off from a financial angle (which is much more important now than it used to be) just letting SAR walk next summer.


You make a good point, but is Wally's contract really that bad? Just look at the type of contracts players are getting this year. The Blazers need a dead-eye 3-pt shooter, especially if they plan on playing a frontcourt of Miles, Randolph, and Ratliff. Wally's a pretty good shooter, although 5 years and $55 million remaining is a lot to swallow.

Anyways, the point was that they could revisit some trade ideas with Shareef. Maybe even the New Jersey angle could be re-examined. Kittles and Williams isn't sexy, but what if they added a future 1st rounder? After a year, it's essentially Williams + a 1st roudner for Shareef. That's better than nothing. Williams can play backup C, something Walker and Shareef can't do.



> As for Damon vs NVE, I think it's a tossup of whose the better PG to put in front of Telfair.
> 
> Damon's been arrested several times, and was dumb enough to try to sneak pot on a plane wrapped up in tinfoil. Damon has groused and refused to play when he didn't get his way. Damon actually overdribbles even more than NVE. You don't hear about his flaws much because the Portland beat writer has a weird obsession of the greatness of the Mouse.
> 
> Myself, I'd rather see NVE as the only PG in front of Telfair. Damon has too much of a sense of entitlement. Even Cheeks refers to it as "Damon's Team."
> 
> I'd rather sign Nick on board and let Randolph, Ratliff, Nick and Telfair take over more of the reigns of leadership.
> 
> Also, it'll force Cheeks to think in new ways. Cheeks only makes changes when their imposed on him, and somehow dumping Damon while adding NVE would be an excellent opportunity to do just that.


I didn't know about Damon's sense of entitlement. Maybe Cheeks said that to try and help motivate Damon to stay on the straight and narrow. He seemed to play better this last year, but I only saw a coulple games against the Suns. He seemed to have cleaned up his act after that tin foil incident, too. 

:laugh: 

You're right about one thing. It'd be easier to trade Stoudamire to Dallas. His contract, I think, can be traded straight up for Walker's.


----------



## Storyteller

*!*



> Originally posted by <b>edgaraven</b>!
> 
> You make a good point, but is Wally's contract really that bad? Just look at the type of contracts players are getting this year. The Blazers need a dead-eye 3-pt shooter, especially if they plan on playing a frontcourt of Miles, Randolph, and Ratliff. Wally's a pretty good shooter, although 5 years and $55 million remaining is a lot to swallow.


Try 5 years, $63.3 million. He has a 15% trade kicker.

And yes, that's way too much for a guy with serious defensive liabilities and is a locker room cancer (have you ever heard of anyone else not getting along with Garnett in the last 9 years?)


BTW, welcome to the board!  Nice to have you posting.


----------



## Paxil

The hoping Van Exel will retire is farfetched... but Nick said that... not me.


----------



## Trader Ed

How about NVE $11.8 mil to NJ for Kittles $9.8 mil exp and Williams $3.15 mil = $12.95 mil? 


Suddenly cheap NJ saves $1.15 mil, $2.3 mil with taxes


----------



## Blazer Freak

> Originally posted by <b>Trader Bob</b>!
> How about NVE to NJ for Kittles and Williams?


:laugh:........:|! OMG! YOUR RIGHT!:hurl: Naw. I think Damon is gonna be the one gone, if NVE is ok with playing with a non Texas team.


----------



## edgaraven

*Re: !*



> Originally posted by <b>So Cal Blazer Fan</b>!
> 
> 
> Try 5 years, $63.3 million. He has a 15% trade kicker.
> 
> And yes, that's way too much for a guy with serious defensive liabilities and is a locker room cancer (have you ever heard of anyone else not getting along with Garnett in the last 9 years?)
> 
> 
> BTW, welcome to the board! Nice to have you posting.


Ouch.. $63.3 million for 5 years? Ok.. forget Wally.  

Thanks for the welcome. Just found these boards about two weeks ago or so.


----------



## Trader Ed

So how is the weather up in Portland today?

muggy and cloudy in Salem


----------



## Schilly

> Originally posted by <b>Trader Bob</b>!
> So how is the weather up in Portland today?
> 
> muggy and cloudy in Salem


About the same around 70 chance of falling sky like usual


----------



## SheedSoNasty

Tick tock tick tock tick tock...

Welcome to your new home, Vince!... No?


----------



## Fork

It's official
http://www.oregonlive.com/blazers/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/exclude/1090325297208901.xml


----------



## Schilly

> Originally posted by <b>Fork</b>!
> It's official
> http://www.oregonlive.com/blazers/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/exclude/1090325297208901.xml


Yes we know that Dickau was traded to the warriors, but what are the other pieces involved?


----------



## Fork

Not to be a smart ***, but it doesn't get much clearer than this:

The Trail Blazers have acquired Golden State guard Nick Van Exel in a trade sending veteran center Dale Davis and reserve guard Dan Dickau to the Warriors. 

---

There's no Patterson for Richardson segment of this trade.


----------



## Ed O

> Originally posted by <b>Schilly</b>!
> 
> Yes we know that Dickau was traded to the warriors, but what are the other pieces involved?


I think that this is a good point... Dickau's going to the Warriors, but is Dale going to the Warriors? Is NVE coming to Portland?

There might be more than a mere 2 team deal, and I'm waiting for NBA.com to report it one way or the other.

Ed O.


----------



## yangsta

> Originally posted by <b>Fork</b>!
> Not to be a smart ***, but it doesn't get much clearer than this:
> 
> The Trail Blazers have acquired Golden State guard Nick Van Exel in a trade sending veteran center Dale Davis and reserve guard Dan Dickau to the Warriors.
> 
> ---
> 
> There's no Patterson for Richardson segment of this trade.



The confidence we all have in Quick is overwhelming isn't it?


----------



## Ed O

> Originally posted by <b>Fork</b>!
> Not to be a smart ***, but it doesn't get much clearer than this:
> 
> The Trail Blazers have acquired Golden State guard Nick Van Exel in a trade sending veteran center Dale Davis and reserve guard Dan Dickau to the Warriors.
> 
> ---
> 
> There's no Patterson for Richardson segment of this trade.


Not according to a short blurb by Jason Quick, there's not. But he's FAR from an authoritative source, and it seems that we need to hear from an official source before we call it "official".

Ed O.


----------



## Trader Ed

Portland trades: PG Dan Dickau (2.2 ppg, 0.6 rpg, 0.9 apg in 6.8 minutes) 
SG Ruben Patterson (7.0 ppg, 3.7 rpg, 1.9 apg in 22.6 minutes) 
C Dale Davis (4.4 ppg, 5.2 rpg, 1.0 apg in 22.1 minutes) 
Portland receives: PG Nick Van Exel (12.6 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 5.3 apg in 32.2 minutes) 
C Nazr Mohammed (7.4 ppg, 5.9 rpg, 0.5 apg in 20.1 minutes) 
Change in team outlook: +6.4 ppg, -0.9 rpg, and +2.0 apg. 

Golden State trades: PG Nick Van Exel (12.6 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 5.3 apg in 32.2 minutes) 
Golden State receives: PG Dan Dickau (2.2 ppg, 0.6 rpg, 0.9 apg in 43 games) 
C Dale Davis (4.4 ppg, 5.2 rpg, 1.0 apg in 76 games) 
Change in team outlook: -6.0 ppg, +3.1 rpg, and -3.4 apg. 

New York trades: C Nazr Mohammed (7.4 ppg, 5.9 rpg, 0.5 apg in 20.1 minutes) 
New York receives: SG Ruben Patterson (7.0 ppg, 3.7 rpg, 1.9 apg in 73 games) 
Change in team outlook: -0.4 ppg, -2.2 rpg, and +1.4 apg. 

TRADE ACCEPTED



This works by the way....

Davis, Dickau and Patterson OUT
NVE and Mohammed IN


----------



## Schilly

> Originally posted by <b>Ed O</b>!
> 
> 
> Not according to a short blurb by Jason Quick, there's not. But he's FAR from an authoritative source, and it seems that we need to hear from an official source before we call it "official".
> 
> Ed O.


ALso on what Ed was saying, there is nothing in the Content of the blurb to indicate any other players.

It can possibly be assumed that it is as has been rumored all day, but there is some reason it hasn't been officially announced yet, and that means a hangup in something.


----------



## Minstrel

> Originally posted by <b>So Cal Blazer Fan</b>!
> 
> 
> Yes and no. I still stick to my basic contention:
> 
> Van Exel will either be part of the roster (and in Portland's case I see this as being a whine and complain fest) and earn $12 million or will garner $12 million in retirement.
> 
> That could play out in several ways (depending on different interpretations of "wants"):
> 
> 1) Portland wants Van Exel to retire - meaning they tell him not to show up. This costs them $12 million, IMO.
> 
> 2) Portland wants Van Exel to retire - meaning they hope that a trade to a non-Texas team will make him choose to retire. But I just don't see that happening. He wants the money, IMO, and will do whatever it takes to get it - even if it means sitting on somebody's bench and being a distraction all year. The only way that their "hope" is fulfilled in this scenario (IMO) is to pay him the $12 million to go away.
> 
> 
> However, in the end, it costs the Blazers $12 million no matter which road is taken.


Granted that those are the most likely outcomes and they would still mean payment. The only thing I was saying, because at first I thought you were saying something different, was that if Van Exel just chooses to quit the game, Portland would be off the hook.

I fully agree that that just ain't gonna happen.



> Oh, and *Minstel*, didn't we have an extended conversation about this avatar months ago? Are you really going to force me to have some "friends" of mine come and visit you?


You can't tell me what to do. My beautiful girlie avatar isn't showing any inappropriate parts or even being seductive!


----------



## Trader Ed

Portland trades: PF Shareef Abdur-Rahim (16.3 ppg, 7.5 rpg, 2.0 apg in 31.6 minutes) 
C Dale Davis (4.4 ppg, 5.2 rpg, 1.0 apg in 22.1 minutes) 
PG Dan Dickau (2.2 ppg, 0.6 rpg, 0.9 apg in 6.8 minutes) 
Portland receives: SG Jalen Rose (15.5 ppg, 4.0 rpg, 5.0 apg in 37.9 minutes) 
SF Vince Carter (22.5 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 4.8 apg in 38.1 minutes) 
Change in team outlook: +15.1 ppg, -4.5 rpg, and +5.9 apg. 

Golden State trades: PG Nick Van Exel (12.6 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 5.3 apg in 32.2 minutes) 
Golden State receives: C Dale Davis (4.4 ppg, 5.2 rpg, 1.0 apg in 76 games) 
PG Dan Dickau (2.2 ppg, 0.6 rpg, 0.9 apg in 43 games) 
Change in team outlook: -6.0 ppg, +3.1 rpg, and -3.4 apg. 

Toronto trades: SG Jalen Rose (15.5 ppg, 4.0 rpg, 5.0 apg in 37.9 minutes) 
SF Vince Carter (22.5 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 4.8 apg in 38.1 minutes) 
Toronto receives: PF Shareef Abdur-Rahim (16.3 ppg, 7.5 rpg, 2.0 apg in 85 games) 
PG Nick Van Exel (12.6 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 5.3 apg in 39 games) 
Change in team outlook: -9.1 ppg, +1.4 rpg, and -2.5 apg. 

TRADE ACCEPTED




This works as well


----------



## Schilly

Wasn't ther talk at one point about a Dale for Dampier trade? Right before the draft?

Then there is talk that the deal is ahnging due to Dampier signing....

Maybe 
Dale, Rueben and Dan
for 
Dampier and NVE


----------



## Fork

> Originally posted by <b>Schilly</b>!
> 
> ALso on what Ed was saying, there is nothing in the Content of the blurb to indicate any other players.
> 
> It can possibly be assumed that it is as has been rumored all day, but there is some reason it hasn't been officially announced yet, and that means a hangup in something.


Just like it says in the report, it's pending the formality of league approval. That's the only hang up.


----------



## talman

Love it TB!!


----------



## yangsta

If someone like Minstel came in and reported it a done deal, we'd all be content... Quick on the other hand.... the supposed "Mr. inside scoop" of the portland trailblazers has absolutely no credibility in this forum... and he probably doesn't deserve it anyways


----------



## Yega1979

> Originally posted by <b>Ed O</b>!
> 
> 
> I think that this is a good point... Dickau's going to the Warriors, but is Dale going to the Warriors? Is NVE coming to Portland?
> 
> There might be more than a mere 2 team deal, and I'm waiting for NBA.com to report it one way or the other.
> 
> Ed O.


I wish Nirvana would come to Portland...if Kurt Cobain weren't dead. :no:


----------



## Trader Ed

> Originally posted by <b>talman</b>!
> Love it TB!!


It would be sweet

ROSTER
PG Stoudamire, Rose, Telfair
SG Carter, DA, (Rose), Woods, Monia
SF Miles, Patterson, (Carter), (Khrayapa)
PF Randolph, Khrayapa, Outlaw
C Ratliff, Stepania, Sinonovic

Overseas = Ha

but a gapping hole behind Ratliff and Randolph


----------



## Trader Ed

league source tells ESPN its official :reporter:


----------



## edgaraven

ESPNews mentioned the deal at the top fo their "Hot List" show currently airing. They reported Nick Van Exel's name, along with Dale Davis and Dan Dickau. It seems at least this much is true.. these players are all involved.

Waiting to hear the rest..


----------



## Blazerfan024

> The Golden State Warriors traded Nick Van Exel to the Portland Trail Blazers on Tuesday for veteran center Dale Davis and backup guard Dan Dickau, a league source told ESPN Insider Chad Ford.





> The trade is essentially a salary swap by both teams; Van Exel and Davis are in the last year of their deals


----------



## Fork

> Originally posted by <b>Trader Bob</b>!
> league source tells ESPN its official :reporter:


Oh my GOD!!!!!

You mean...Jason Quick was...correct?

Of course nobody in here will give him any credit.


----------



## Yega1979

SoCal, what are you talking about? If the blazers expect him to retire they have to pay him 12 million dollars? Where in the CBA does it say that? 

Do they honestly fill out a form with the league that says what they 'expect' the player to do?? And if what you are saying is correct, why would any team say 'we expect this player to retire so we'll have to pay him millions of dollars if he retires'. That's completly absurd.


----------



## Schilly

> Originally posted by <b>Fork</b>!
> 
> 
> Oh my GOD!!!!!
> 
> You mean...Jason Quick was...correct?
> 
> Of course nobody in here will give him any credit.


Ron Pivo broke it last night on KGW....


----------



## Yega1979

Patterson for Muhammad would be a good deal.

A. Patterson wants out.

B. We have a lot of small forwards, and Muhammad would be a much better rebounder as a backup C or PF than anyone we currently have.


----------



## Ed O

> Originally posted by <b>Yega1979</b>!
> SoCal, what are you talking about? If the blazers expect him to retire they have to pay him 12 million dollars? Where in the CBA does it say that?
> 
> Do they honestly fill out a form with the league that says what they 'expect' the player to do?? And if what you are saying is correct, why would any team say 'we expect this player to retire so we'll have to pay him millions of dollars if he retires'. That's completly absurd.


You're misinterpreting what he asserted. He pretty thoroughly addressed what he meant in subsequent posts.

Ed O.


----------



## Trader Ed

as a follow up. It might just be a good one.



> _The deal doesn't make as much sense for the Blazers. They have Damon Stoudamire at the point along with lottery pick Sebastian Telfair. Telfair's played so-so in the Rocky Mountain Revue summer league and may have prompted the Blazers to look for more immediate depth at the position. While the deal shores up their back court, it hampers their front court to a certain extent. Theo Ratliff is the starter, but he has a history of injuries. His only real back-up now is Vladimir Stepania. Van Exel has a $12.7 million team option on his contract next season. It's unlikely that the Blazers will pick up the team option.
> 
> _


----------



## tlong

> The deal doesn't make as much sense for the Blazers. They have Damon Stoudamire at the point along with lottery pick Sebastian Telfair. *Telfair's played so-so *in the Rocky Mountain Revue summer league and may have prompted the Blazers to look for more immediate depth at the position.


Good thing we picked Telfair.


----------



## MAS RipCity

He's playing a lot better then so-so.


----------



## Fork

> Originally posted by <b>tlong</b>!
> 
> Good thing we picked Telfair.


So you're valuing the opinion of some hack sportswriter (who in all actuality, probably hasn't even see Telfair play) over that of Mo Cheeks, John Nash, John Loyer, Jason Quick, Eric Marantette, etc, etc...who have actually been watching the games and say he's played well? 

Hmmmmm.


----------



## Dan

> Originally posted by <b>tlong</b>!
> 
> 
> Good thing we picked Telfair.


ok, we get the picture. you don't like the drafting of Telfair. You'll probably never like the drafting of Telfair, and even if he turns into a good player, you'll still ***** that he isn't a 'star' that the 3 people on this board think he might be..

so give it a rest. it gets old to hear the same people say the same thing about the same players they don't like.


----------



## Schilly

> Originally posted by <b>tlong</b>!
> 
> 
> Good thing we picked Telfair.


You do realize that if you are wrong about Telfair, you haven't exaclty left the door open for any kind of credibility at all...right?

Or will every game for the next 15 years be fluke?


----------



## ProudBFan

> Originally posted by <b>Fork</b>!
> 
> 
> So you're valuing the opinion of some hack sportswriter (who in all actuality, probably hasn't even see Telfair play) over that of Mo Cheeks, John Nash, John Loyer, Jason Quick, Eric Marantette, etc, etc...who have actually been watching the games and say he's played well?


But if Cheeks, Nash, Loyer, Quick, Marantette, etc, etc, feel Telfair is playing well, why the need to bring Van Exel in?

PBF


----------



## Schilly

Not sure...Either the Blazers know he will retire or IMO they have a secondary deal lined up, unless the really do see NVE as a 2 for them.


----------



## Fork

> Originally posted by <b>ProudBFan</b>!
> But if Cheeks, Nash, Loyer, Quick, Marantette, etc, etc, feel Telfair is playing well, why the need to bring Van Exel in?
> 
> PBF


A) Nick can play some 2 guard Damon probably is better at the 2, he just plays the 1 more often.

B) I doubt this is the last move we see ths team make.


----------



## Ed O

> Originally posted by <b>ProudBFan</b>!
> 
> But if Cheeks, Nash, Loyer, Quick, Marantette, etc, etc, feel Telfair is playing well, why the need to bring Van Exel in?


I think it's a cost/benefit thing.

Dan Dickau is useless. He was falling behind Telfair on the depth chart and he's like 7 years old than Bassy.

Dale Davis was next to useless at the end of last year, and it's probable he'd be even worse this year.

NVE's not my favorite player... not by a long shot. He's 32, injury-prone, has a bad attitude and a relatively weak shooting percentage. With that said, he'll play a lot of minutes this year at the 1 and 2 spots for Portland, and make it easier to move Damon if he can bring value.

The issues I have are these:

-- where's the beef? We are smaller now as a team than I can ever remember us being. Portland better have a big guy who can play decent minutes lined up.

-- is an expiring contract really only worth another expiring contract? It seems that Dale Davis (and his expiring contract) could have been packaged to bring back a guy that's more than a rent-a-player.

Overall, I'm not excited about the move. I don't hate it, but I was hoping for more.

Ed O.


----------



## Leroy131

> But if Cheeks, Nash, Loyer, Quick, Marantette, etc, etc, feel Telfair is playing well, why the need to bring Van Exel in?


As much as I would like to see Telfair get some minutes next season, we need some warm bodies in the backcourt. I think (hope?) this is more of an indictment on Dickau than anything. In terms of proven NBA players in the backcourt, we had Damon, DA and nobody. Davis wanted out anyway, both players have just 1 year remaining, so it just kind of makes sense. Let's just hope that Van Exel missing half of last season was more of an anomaly than a trend, because he had considerable value just 1 months ago and at 32, likely has a little gas left in the tank...


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## tlong

> Originally posted by <b>Hap</b>!
> 
> 
> ok, we get the picture. you don't like the drafting of Telfair. You'll probably never like the drafting of Telfair, and even if he turns into a good player, you'll still ***** that he isn't a 'star' that the 3 people on this board think he might be..
> 
> so give it a rest. it gets old to hear the same people say the same thing about the same players they don't like.


Why is it that you seem to think I don't like Telfair the person? He seems like a good kid to me. I absolutely *hate* the fact that the Blazers spent the #13 pick in the draft on him. That was ridiculous. Have you seen how Al Jefferson is playing?


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## Leroy131

> -- is an expiring contract really only worth another expiring contract? It seems that Dale Davis (and his expiring contract) could have been packaged to bring back a guy that's more than a rent-a-player.


It depends on what kind of contract you're willing to put up with. A simple expiring contract isn't going to get you a franchise player like Kidd, Carter, etc. but it WILL in some cases get you a solid player owed a lot of money ala Houston, Szczerbiak, etc. I don't think that biting off a huge deal for one of our expiring contracts is in the cards right now, unless it's a "no-brainer/better-than-we-could-do-in-free-agency" kind of deal. Sure the Blazers could get some pretty solid talent (at least a little better than Van Exel) back for guys like Davis and Stoudamire, but I think they want to maintain flexibility down the road...


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## Schilly

> Originally posted by <b>tlong</b>!
> 
> 
> Why is it that you seem to think I don't like Telfair the person? He seems like a good kid to me. I absolutely *hate* the fact that the Blazers spent the #13 pick in the draft on him. That was ridiculous. Have you seen how Al Jefferson is playing?


have you ever heard the term..."GET OVER IT"

Doesn't matter how much you complain about it, it won't change it. I would think as a fan of the team you would show your colors by trying to support the kid rather than tear him down, simply becasue you didn''t agree with the pick.


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## tlong

> Originally posted by <b>Schilly</b>!
> 
> have you ever heard the term..."GET OVER IT"
> 
> Doesn't matter how much you complain about it, it won't change it. I would think as a fan of the team you would show your colors by trying to support the kid rather than tear him down, simply becasue you didn''t agree with the pick.


Sorry Schilly, but I don't think being a fan means I should support stupid organization decisions. I'm not some kind of a leming that will walk of a cliff for them.


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## ProudBFan

> Originally posted by <b>Schilly</b>!
> 
> have you ever heard the term..."GET OVER IT"
> 
> Doesn't matter how much you complain about it, it won't change it. I would think as a fan of the team you would show your colors by trying to support the kid rather than tear him down, simply becasue you didn''t agree with the pick.


Schilly's right. Believe me, I HATED to see the Blazers use the #13 pick on Telfair too. I *****ed about it on every Blazers forum I frequent for a few days after the draft. But I got tired of that, and I also realized that it wasn't going to change anything. So now I'm just hoping the kid gets the opportunity to prove his worth and that he makes good on it. If so, it won't have been a wasted pick.

Only time will tell, but there's really no point in bemoaning it now. Save it for if/when he actually *does* turn out to be a bust.

PBF


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## Yega1979

> Originally posted by <b>tlong</b>!
> 
> 
> Why is it that you seem to think I don't like Telfair the person? He seems like a good kid to me. I absolutely *hate* the fact that the Blazers spent the #13 pick in the draft on him. That was ridiculous. Have you seen how Al Jefferson is playing?


I was also hoping for Al Jefferson...but Telfair is showing a lot of promise so far!


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## Fork

> Originally posted by <b>tlong</b>!
> 
> 
> Sorry Schilly, but I don't think being a fan means I should support stupid organization decisions. I'm not some kind of a leming that will walk of a cliff for them.


But doesn't it get old for you to repeat the same lame comments over and over again without backing it up? 

If you dislike the decision, bring something new to the table. Bring some proof. Make your case for why it was such a horrible decision. Don't just make cheap comments EVERY time Telfair's name comes up. 

BTW, Al Jefferson averaged 13 and 8 for Boston's summer league team. That's pretty good. Telfair is averaging 12 and 5. That's pretty good too. Considering the learning curve for a PG is much higher than for a PF, I'd say Telfair is holding his own.


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## Schilly

> Originally posted by <b>tlong</b>!
> 
> 
> Sorry Schilly, but I don't think being a fan means I should support stupid organization decisions. I'm not some kind of a leming that will walk of a cliff for them.


Well it's one thing to protest the clubbing of baby seals, but to constantly bombard us about a basketball player, is really a little boring and really pointless don't ya think?


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## tlong

> Originally posted by <b>Fork</b>!
> 
> 
> But doesn't it get old for you to repeat the same lame comments over and over again without backing it up?
> 
> If you dislike the decision, bring something new to the table. Bring some proof. Make your case for why it was such a horrible decision. Don't just make cheap comments EVERY time Telfair's name comes up.
> 
> BTW, Al Jefferson averaged 13 and 8 for Boston's summer league team. That's pretty good. Telfair is averaging 12 and 5. That's pretty good too. Considering the learning curve for a PG is much higher than for a PF, I'd say Telfair is holding his own.


What kind of proof do you want? 4-17 shooting? 6 turnovers in 20 minutes? What?


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## Schilly

> Originally posted by <b>Fork</b>!
> 
> 
> But doesn't it get old for you to repeat the same lame comments over and over again without backing it up?
> 
> If you dislike the decision, bring something new to the table. Bring some proof. Make your case for why it was such a horrible decision. Don't just make cheap comments EVERY time Telfair's name comes up.
> 
> BTW, Al Jefferson averaged 13 and 8 for Boston's summer league team. That's pretty good. Telfair is averaging 12 and 5. That's pretty good too. Considering the learning curve for a PG is much higher than for a PF, I'd say Telfair is holding his own.


On top of that the PF Matchups are far weaker in the SL's by comparison...there are plenty of 6'1" speedsters out therebut not so many 6'9" PF's with size Like Als, at least in the Summer leagues.


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## yangsta

Theres no doubt in my mind that this was Mo Cheeks' pick... Nash probably saw potential.. and Cheeks exagerrated it... having coached damon the last 3 seasons.. his standards were probably somewhat lowered...


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## Fork

> Originally posted by <b>tlong</b>!
> 
> What kind of proof do you want? 4-17 shooting? 6 turnovers in 20 minutes? What?


What a joker. Basically, you're saying:

Telfair is a bust after 4 games.

Jefferson is a stud after 5 games.

Hmmmm.


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## kaydow

> Theres no doubt in my mind that this was Mo Cheeks' pick... Nash probably saw potential.. and Cheeks exagerrated it... having coached damon the last 3 seasons.. his standards were probably somewhat lowered...



You're kidding yourself if you think Cheeks has that kind of pull. Do you think NVE trade was his idea? Not to knock Nick-at-night, but he's had a lot of issues with head coaches (Musselman, Del Harris, Dan Issel to name a few) Cheeks said last week that we need one more piece--a big/versatile guard to complete the puzzle. I don't think this it what he had in mind.


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## yangsta

> Originally posted by <b>kaydow</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> You're kidding yourself if you think Cheeks has that kind of pull. Do you think NVE trade was his idea? Not to knock Nick-at-night, but he's had a lot of issues with head coaches (Musselman, Del Harris, Dan Issel to name a few) Cheeks said last week that we need one more piece--a big/versatile guard to complete the puzzle. I don't think this it what he had in mind.


The topic of conversation at that point in the thread was Telfair... not NVE...


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## kaydow

> The topic of conversation at that point in the thread was Telfair... not NVE...


No kidding?? I was using an example to show that Cheeks doesn't have the final decision when it comes to personel, be it draft, trade, or FA. He can offer who his opinion but the Brass is going to do what they want to do.


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## Schilly

You know outside of Quik and Ford I ahve seen absolutely nothing to indicate that his is official or accurate yet....

Not saying it isn't just saying that I want to see the confirmed details before I settle in on it as being done.


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## Schilly

OK NBA.com has it listed on their transactions page now.

Link


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## yangsta

> Originally posted by <b>kaydow</b>!
> 
> 
> No kidding?? I was using an example to show that Cheeks doesn't have the final decision when it comes to personel, be it draft, trade, or FA. He can offer who his opinion but the Brass is going to do what they want to do.


Obviously he doesn't have the final decision, but I think he did his share of marketing for telfair. I'm not saying that it was unsubstantiated hype.. I mean he could really turn out to be a really great player. When we are weak at 2 and the 5, I would think that our priority would be to fill those positions. Instead we brought in another undersized point guard that was expected to go in the 20's. I think Cheeks this year has included as a part of the "brass" that you are referring to. They seem to have included him many decisions it looks like... also.. he has been very vocal in his interest in Telfair before the draft. And he has struggled to turn Damon in to a floor leader that he was himself. This leads me to believe that Cheeks had a major influence in this pick. And I didn't say he had any influence in the NVE trade... I don't understand that particular comparison you made.


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## kaydow

Did Cheeks convince the Brass to draft Telfair? Or did the Brass convince Cheeks it was in his best interest to "support" the fact they were going to draft him. It has been suggested that latter was the case. I don't know and I don't care. However, it seems to me Nash/Patterson aren't going to draft a guy they aren't crazy about because the coach is. If they wanted Jefferson (or anybody else) they would have picked him. You said that telfair was "Cheeks Pick". I'm saying Cheeks is not Bill Parcells--he doesn't have the pull to influence a GM beyond a mere suggestion.


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## Talkhard

> I don't think being a fan means I should support stupid organization decisions.


You must have the shortest fuse in history! Telfair has played only 4 games. He's a high school point guard who is adjusting to life in the NBA. Give him a chance, for God's sake! It's way too early to say that Portland made a mistake in drafting Telfair. In fact, all the signs point to it being a pretty good choice. For fans with a little discrimination and the ability to see a diamond in the rough, Telfair is a very exciting player.


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## Freshtown

Hello:

Hmmm.... Dale and Dan. DD X2  Maybe they can have a west coast/east coast rivalry with WW X2 in Detroit. 

Eh, eh?

Regards:

Freshtown


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## Yega1979

> Originally posted by <b>Freshtown</b>!
> Hello:
> 
> Hmmm.... Dale and Dan. DD X2  Maybe they can have a west coast/east coast rivalry with WW X2 in Detroit.
> 
> Eh, eh?
> 
> Regards:
> 
> Freshtown


Dale Davis and Dan Dickau for Dick Dan Dexel.


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## tlong

> Originally posted by <b>Schilly</b>!
> 
> On top of that the PF Matchups are far weaker in the SL's by comparison...there are plenty of 6'1" speedsters out therebut not so many 6'9" PF's with size Like Als, at least in the Summer leagues.


Gee, that sounds like another reason why we should have drafted Jefferson.


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## Dan

> Originally posted by <b>tlong</b>!
> 
> 
> Gee, that sounds like another reason why we should have drafted Jefferson.


yah. that surely is a reason..

here's how you're coming off:

"Well, see? Telfair sucks, he's sucking in the summer leagues"

"see? we should've taken Jefferson. He's kicking butt in the summer leagues"

it's the summer leagues.Doing really good doesn't mean they'll be any good in the league (hello Qyntel Woods) and doing bad doens't mean they'll suck in the NBA (Hello Kirk Hinrich).


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## tlong

That's ridiculous. You remember how Zach tore up the summer league don't you? It was obvious he was a player. Doing poorly doesn't guarantee you will be a bust, but it's a very strong indication.


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## Dan

> Originally posted by <b>tlong</b>!
> That's ridiculous. You remember how Zach tore up the summer league don't you? It was obvious he was a player. Doing poorly doesn't guarantee you will be a bust, but it's a very strong indication.


so kirk hinrich playing poorly was a "very strong indication" of what?

and how is he playing poorly? maybe if you lowered your standards from "perfection" to "reality", you'd see he's actually doing pretty good..and probably just as good as any other PG who'd the blazers could've drafted..

You know, the PG...the position the Blazers *NEEDED*..not some "ooh, he's tall, let's get Jefferson!" PF.


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## tlong

> Originally posted by <b>Hap</b>!
> 
> 
> so kirk hinrich playing poorly was a "very strong indication" of what?
> 
> and how is he playing poorly? maybe if you lowered your standards from "perfection" to "reality", you'd see he's actually doing pretty good..and probably just as good as any other PG who'd the blazers could've drafted..
> 
> You know, the PG...the position the Blazers *NEEDED*..not some "ooh, he's tall, let's get Jefferson!" PF.


I believe you should draft the best player available regardless of position. We now have Damon and NVE so how much did we really need him?


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## Dan

> Originally posted by <b>tlong</b>!
> 
> 
> I believe you should draft the best player available regardless of position. We now have Damon and NVE so how much did we really need him?


you do know that Damon and Exel aren't under contract after this season, right? Whats going to happen after this season ends? Who's the PG then?

We already know who's the starting PF next year (barring injuries of course). Zach.

We know who's going to be the starting PF the year after that.

Zach.

And we know who's going to be the starting PF, most likely, the year after that.

Zach.


Having Damon and NVE (post draft) doesn't mean the team didn't need a PG. Damon is trade bait for this season (altho I doubt he'll be traded) and so is NVE.

The team needed a PG and despite what you think and I think, they actually know more about the players ability, and 'who is the most talented' than we do. They also know more about who's more talented than the "experts" do..

It'd be nice if you could accept that maybe the blazers are just as smart as you for once. Maybe even smarter.


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## Iwatas

> Originally posted by <b>Hap</b>!
> doing bad doens't mean they'll suck in the NBA (Hello Kirk Hinrich).


Does anyone have the stats for Hinrich in last year's summer league?


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## tlong

> Originally posted by <b>Hap</b>!
> 
> 
> The team needed a PG and despite what you think and I think, they actually know more about the players ability, and 'who is the most talented' than we do. They also know more about who's more talented than the "experts" do..
> 
> It'd be nice if you could accept that maybe the blazers are just as smart as you for once. Maybe even smarter.



Sorry. I don't accept that. :grinning:


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## Schilly

> Originally posted by <b>Iwatas</b>!
> 
> 
> Does anyone have the stats for Hinrich in last year's summer league?


Game 1 Vs Dallas
12PT 1RB 3AST 3TO on 4/11fg and 2/4from 3 in 29 minutes.

Game 2 Vs Phoenix
5PT 2RB 1AST 3TO on 2/8FG and 1/3 from 3 in 24 minutes

Game 3 Vs San Antonio
5PTS 2RBS 8AST 4TO on 1/11FG and 1/4 from 3 in 33 minutes

Game 4 Vs Denver
0PT 2RB 2AST 2TO on 0/1FG in 16 minutes

Game 5 Vs Portland
23PT 2RB 2AST 5TO on 8/11FG and 4/5 from 3 in 33 Minutes

Game 6 Vs NY
6PT 2RP 2AST 0TO on 2/13fg and 0/6 from 3 in 33 minutes

Final averages coming soon


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## Schilly

Averages

Per game
8.5pts 1.83rb 3ast 2.83to on 31%fg and 36%3pt in 28mpg

Per 48 Minutes
14.57pts 3.14rbs 5.14ast 4.86to


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## Fork

> Originally posted by <b>Schilly</b>!
> Averages
> 
> Per game
> 8.5pts 1.83rb 3ast 2.83to on 31%fg and 36%3pt in 28mpg
> 
> Per 48 Minutes
> 14.57pts 3.14rbs 5.14ast 4.86to


Good find.

Telfair's /48 stats

25.6 pts, 1.1 reb, 10.9 asst, 8.7 to

Obviously too many turnovers, but he'll learn.


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