# Official TRADE THREAD: Battier for Gay AND Stromile Swift



## Smooth Lotion

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/bk/bkn/4010820.html

**** YOU JEFF VAN GUNDY, THIS IS A 100% JVG MOVE.


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## AZNoob

OMG...total disaster. Yao...Tracy...I am sincerely sorry.


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## Yao Mania

Well, I'm not gonna jump to the verdict here... but Battier's one of the best role guys in the league and can really help us make a push next season. But Giving both Gay and Swift up for him is just ridiculous... I'll wait and see what the official word on this trade is


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## tone wone

:laugh: to keep from 

Is Isiah running houstons draft as well as New Yorks???


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## AZNoob

tone wone said:


> :laugh: to keep from
> 
> Is Isiah running houstons draft as well as New Yorks???


:boxing: equals what I want to do to all the Rocket personnel who even thought of Battier!


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## Dean the Master

I think we have about 2 weeks untill the deal to be finalized.
We need to work him out to see if that trade is good.
Ask T-Mac and Yao to come out and body slam CD, maybe he will cancel the deal.
The only way I am getting Shane Battier is Swift and the 2nd rounder.


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## reno2000

Please tell me all this is fake. It would be disappointing if all this happened.


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## tobybennett

Stro sucks, you guys know that. but you got ripped off/.


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## some1x

article said:


> Because of NBA rules, they are not permitted to finalize or discuss deals until July 12.


Does this mean we have 2 weeks to spam Rockets management and hope that they come to their senses? 

I'm hella pissed. @!$#[email protected]%$%@


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## sherwin

why till july 12? We need to organize a campaign to kill this deal


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## chn353

if every1 puts in $1 we'd have enough money to assassinate or kidnap CD


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## reno2000

^^ nice call.


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## Samael

what makes this trade funny is that Stro goes back to where he came from. :rofl:


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## clips_r_teh_wieners

Yao Mania said:


> Well, I'm not gonna jump to the verdict here... but Battier's one of the best role guys in the league and can really help us make a push next season. But Giving both Gay and Swift up for him is just ridiculous... I'll wait and see what the official word on this trade is


key words: ROLE PLAYER. u cant lose with rudy gay. dont kno what management was thinking there. btw, this trade is official on espn.com. 

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2006/news/story?id=2503390

so sorry guys. rox gave me a scare there with the trio of yao-tmac-gay, but luckily...well nvm


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## lingi1206

chn353 said:


> if every1 puts in $1 we'd have enough money to assassinate or kidnap CD



haha iam in :cheers:


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## lingi1206

and whats up with this? 
:thinking: Minnesota sent the rights to No. 6 Brandon Roy to Portland for the rights to No. 7 Randy Foye.

also are we getting anything else other then Battie from memphis??? :curse:


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## chn353

ye maybe espn just like shortened a blockbuster trade

gay+SS+juwan+wesley+bowen for gasol+miller+battier


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## some1x

I'm all for this trade now. Next year, Memphis can trade Swift back to us for Yao + Tmac and I will be a Grizz fan.


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## hitokiri315

if cd swings that one. he is the greatest man alive.


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## sherwin

I was so excited about the draft.. now its ruined. CD really is a bumbling old fool.


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## tang

We coulda had a deadly backcourt to go along with Yao...but no..we get a ROLE PLAYER


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## StackAttack

Wow. I feel for you guys.

Wow.

Wow.

Gay goes to a playoff team, and at that a 5th seeded one. Not bad.

Wow.


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## The Future7

As a fan of T-Mac. WTF is going on. Gay and Swift for Battie. I've been disappointed a few times in this draft. First my Knicks now Gay is in Memphis.


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## Samael

Biggest draft day blunder so far, this trade would have seemed better if the #24 pick was included. Oh well, I feel your pain.


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## AZNoob

StackAttack said:


> Wow. I feel for you guys.
> 
> Wow.
> 
> Wow.
> 
> Gay goes to a playoff team, and at that a 5th seeded one. Not bad.
> 
> Wow.


WOW, thank WOW you WOW for WOW that.


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## Dean the Master

Biggest Winners of the Draft: Blazers, Grizzlies
Biggest Loser of the Draft: HOUSTON ROCKETS!


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## Pain5155

WAT its GAY AND SWIFT!!?!?! WOW!! I thought just gay was bad, now its even worse!!


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## laserboy

with such a ridiculous management we can never win a championship ..... 

last year: trade mike james, get swift from Mem ... :curse: 
this year: get battier, trade gay and swift to Mem ... :curse: :curse:


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## Cornholio

Why isn't the trade made official yet??


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## Samael

I got the inside scope from a friend of mine on the real reason why Gay was traded.

It was simply because CD and JVG are homophobes.:rofl:


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## Dean the Master

Because we have untill July 12th.


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## nammer21

Wow, your GM is destroying any possibility of Tmac and/or Yao to win a championship. What a waste of once in a generation talents.


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## sherwin

*S Battier is on his base level pay until July 12. Salary matches after then. Thats why*

SABOTAGE THIS!!


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## untamed guerilla

here i am watching the draft and i'm like oh **** were about to get rudy gay, then i see this ******* **** say houston trades the rights of gay to memphis for battier and i'm like wtf, tell me this is a joke, somebody please are u frickin retarded, then i come on here and find out they sent swift too, who in the **** do they think battier is he's a freakin role player, what is he going to do, whoever is the rockets gm needs to be fired, if i was t-mac and yao i'd demand a trade there never going to win with stupid desicions like that


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## chn353

........seriously sad


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## MemphisX

Dancing, dancing, dancing...I'm a dancing machine!!!!!


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## AZNoob

I wonder how T-Mac and Yao are feeling right now, because I am sure they are watching it, or at least have heard the news of the potential trade by...................now.


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## Samael

I was thinking maybe this trade was agreed upon before the draft started but after the 2 pm deadline. In which CD agreed to trade #8 and Stro for Battier without the knowledge that Gay would slip down to #8??

Because if that's the case then you can't blame the guy it was an agreemwent before hand. But is still possible to back out since the trade won't be finalized till the july 12? or would that just be rude.


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## Dean the Master

I hope that would be the case. 
But, with that said, we need to back out. Be rude, so what? I think this was just oral agreement. I know no Rockets want this trade.


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## Gotham2krazy

tobybennett said:


> Stro sucks, you guys know that. but you got ripped off/.


no ****.


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## TManiAC

PG: Rafer Alston 
SG: Tracy McGrady | Bobby Sura | Luther Head
SF: Shane Battier | Steve Novak | Lior Eliyahu
PF: Juwan Howard | Chuck Hayes | Ryan Bowen
CN: Yao Ming | Dikembe Mutombo

Option: Maceij Lampe, Keith Bogans

Needs: a defensive PF/C, a big defensive PG with penetrating ability, an athletic wing. 

It sucks we couldn't take Kyle Lowry with this trade because it would have helped alot and would have made this trade look less lopsided.

I'm thinking our target in the free agency will be Mike James.

I'm not going to question this trade just yet because Shane is a good fit (not necessarily worth Rudy Gay, though...) and the depthchart looks so incomplete (and terribly unathletic) I only hope theres alot more moving to do.


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## tone wone

MemphisX said:


> Dancing, dancing, dancing...I'm a dancing machine!!!!!


 What exactly does West have on CD??? Incriminating photos? sex tape?

Same division=4 games a year. If Gay turns out to be a stud Houston is gonna feel it.


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## TManiAC

MemphisX said:


> Dancing, dancing, dancing...I'm a dancing machine!!!!!



*
[email protected]#[email protected]$#%@[email protected]!!!!
* :curse:


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## The_Franchise

Jeff Van Gundy. Mr. Predictable. Cannot evaluate talent so takes the safest thing out there risking the Rocket's future. Yeah, this trade will look great next year as Battier is a great fit for this team. Then things get messy when Gay starts developing a handle and outplaying Pau Gasol as a third year player. Battier fills a couple holes for us, but we had Rudy Gay fall right into our laps and ****ed it up. This was a 100% JVG move as Smooth pointed out. **** you JVG. This guy has no place on a team with Yao Ming and Tracy McGrady, is suited to coach a Chicago or Memphis type team. 

If we wanted to trade Rudy Gay, fine. But getting nothing more than Shane Battier from him and Stromile Swift is nothing short of pathetic. JVG doesn't take risks, he can't coordinate an offense, and he can't evaluate talent. He's a coach for losers and role players, not Yao Ming and Tracy McGrady. The fact that we have done nothing but move backwards over the last year makes it worse.


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## lingi1206

What had the rocket fans done to deserve this?


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## Samael

Double post


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## Samael

I really think now that this trade happened before the draft because they were so quick to announce it with CD having no knowledge that Gay would slip.


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## tone wone

TManiAC said:


> PG: Rafer Alston
> SG: Tracy McGrady | Bobby Sura | Luther Head
> SF: Shane Battier | Steve Novak | Lior Eliyahu
> PF: Juwan Howard | Chuck Hayes | Ryan Bowen
> CN: Yao Ming | Dikembe Mutombo
> 
> Option: Maceij Lampe, Keith Bogans
> 
> Needs: a defensive PF/C, a big defensive PG with penetrating ability, an athletic wing.
> 
> It sucks we couldn't take Kyle Lowry with this trade because it would have helped alot and would have made this trade look less lopsided.
> 
> I'm thinking our target in the free agency will be Mike James.
> 
> I'm not going to question this trade just yet because Shane is a good fit (not necessarily worth Rudy Gay, though...) and the depthchart looks so incomplete (and terribly unathletic) I only hope theres alot more moving to do.


 the problem is Stro and Head are Houstons only tradeable assets. Battier makes pretty same as Stro per year but has like 4 years left on his deal.

So Houston got older and damn near added salary


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## lingi1206

tone wone said:


> What exactly does West have on CD??? Incriminating photos? sex tape?
> 
> Same division=4 games a year. If Gay turns out to be a stud Houston is gonna feel it.


HAHA THIS IS by far the BEST post today :clap:


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## Cornholio

I still can't understand how CD agreed to this trade. What the **** did West told him about Battier?


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## CbobbyB

this could actually work out if we get the right free agent


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## Gotham2krazy

Battier doesn't really fill our needs. We need somebody young, athletic, scorer. I hate this, hate this, hate this, hate this. The only thing Carrol Dawson's done right in his career was draft Yao and trade for McGrady.


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## CbobbyB

this still sucks though


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## tone wone

Samael said:


> I really think now that this trade happened before the draft because they were so quick to announce it with CD having no knowledge that Gay would slip.


 this makes sense cause a week and half ago it looked as if Houston would have the pick of Brewer, Carney or Reddickat #8. Then Roy's name came up as houston wanted to trade up. So I think they had Roy as their only choice....at least realistic choice. So if they couldn't trade up and if he was gone by 8 they would trade the pick for a vet.

Theres no logically reason in thinking they dont want Gay....it just makes no sense.


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## J Blaze

The trade is NOT official. There is still the possibility that the trade will not happen or we will get other players in the deal. I have hope and faith that we will get someone/something else. The trade is STILL not on ESPN. They just did a recap of the first 10 selections of the draft and did NOT have Houston trading Rudy Gay. We will see though.


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## TManiAC

Wow......


I dont know what to think. I dont know what the Rockets are thinking. I think the fans deserve some sort of retort or explanation for whats going on or at least assurance that other very significant moves are ahead.

What now? 

Doesnt JVG know this is outrageous to the fans? Couldnt we have gotten something better in return for mortgaging our future to conference rivals?

note: Shane Battier is a good fit. He can shoot long at a high clip as well as play the post, hes strong and a good defender, and he's a perfect system player. We will get more wins as a result, but I think we paid too high of a price for a role player. Think Shane as a bigger and younger David Wesley. I'm torn over whats more important: improving athleticism, improving at the PG position, or padding the post rotation....


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## The_Franchise

J Blaze said:


> The trade is NOT official. There is still the possibility that the trade will not happen or we will get other players in the deal. I have hope and faith that we will get someone/something else. The trade is STILL not on ESPN. They just did a recap of the first 10 selections of the draft and did NOT have Houston trading Rudy Gay. We will see though.


 Gay to Memphis is official. What we get in return isn't.


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## TracywtFacy

don't worry, gay AND swift for battier won't happen, i swear...


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## CbobbyB

its the Houston Texans all over again


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## Rockets111

Grizzlies-Rockets deal delayed
The proposed Grizzlies-Rockets trade first reported by ESPN.com's Andy Katz that would send Shane Battier to Houston for the rights to the No. 8 pick in tonight's draft (Rudy Gay) can't be completed until the trade moratorium ends in mid-July. 

Battier is a base year compensation player and needs his salary to reset July 1.


http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2006/news/story?id=2503390

towards the bottom


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## Rockets111

at least we will have rudy gay for 2 daysssss


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## tone wone

I just wanna know why not Gay. He basically embodies everything houston wanted to do this offseason. 

1) Size at wing? check (6'9/7'3 wingspan) 
2) Athleticism? check.
3) Youth? check 
4) Skilled? check. 
5) Cheap? check.

If this is all to the deal that means houston suffered a 40pt game 7 loss and 43 loss season for Shane Battier, Rafer Alston and Keith Bogans.


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## reno2000

On Espn.com it says the trade is delayed until July 1, when Battier's contract gets reset cause of some base year crap. In effect we wait another couple of days to speculate on how badly we get raped. 

Dawson together with Isiah and McHale are the worst GM's of the last 5yrs. Dawson has mangaged to squander so many oppurtunities. Yao and Tmac werent even brilliance by him, they were basically lumped on him. Yao was the obvious pick from a basketball and business point of view, and Tmac was leaving Orlando anyway, and he managed to come up with the best deal (while getting rid of Francis who I think had overstayed his welcome).


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## AZNoob

If this trade were to go down, I wish Houston would replace Shane with Mike.


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## lingi1206

*"Even though Houston had a poor season, it does not need to overhaul its roster. If McGrady and Yao are both healthy the Rockets are a playoff team. A strong pick could go a long way for this franchise."
-- Warren Blatt, Sports Network * 
_
*yea so much for that :curse: * _


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## Ballscientist

Rockets111 said:


> Grizzlies-Rockets deal delayed
> The proposed Grizzlies-Rockets trade first reported by ESPN.com's Andy Katz that would send Shane Battier to Houston for the rights to the No. 8 pick in tonight's draft (Rudy Gay) can't be completed until the trade moratorium ends in mid-July.
> 
> Battier is a base year compensation player and needs his salary to reset July 1.
> 
> 
> http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2006/news/story?id=2503390
> 
> towards the bottom


There is nothing you can do - trade paper is signed by both CD and West. Salary reset has no effect. It is done - well-done.


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## TManiAC

AZNoob said:


> If this trade were to go down, I wish Houston would replace Shane with Mike.


Or somehow add Mike Miller. This trade is even if we can get Mike Miller for the TE.


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## AZNoob

TManiAC said:


> Or somehow add Mike Miller. This trade is even if we can get Mike Miller for the TE.


Lol, that is what I meant by Mike. So much better than Battier.


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## sherwin

this must be sabotaged, period.


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## TManiAC

AZNoob said:


> Lol, that is what I meant by Mike. So much better than Battier.


I know what you meant by Mike... Im saying its still not fair to trade Rudy Gay for just Mike Miller. It would be fair if they gave us both Mike Miller and Shane Battier for Rudy Gay and our Trade Exemption.


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## knickstorm

only way things change is if tmac and yao call up and go wtf i aint playing if this goes down


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## some1x

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shane_Battier

LOL. Wikipedia already got updated.


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## Legend-Like

OMg i dont want SHane Battier, I DONT want Shane Battier!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Just damn stupid givin some one who could make some noise in the league and Stromile Swift a beast for some damn vetarn. There has got to be an explanation to this, thers just gotta. ...... and lmao at Marcus Williams :laugh:


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## AZNoob

Shane Battier (born September 9, 1978 in Birmingham, Michigan) is an American professional basketball player with the Houston Rockets. <---WOW!

He was traded in 2006 to the Houston Rockets for the 8th pick in the 2006 NBA Draft, Rudy Gay, and his former Grizzlies teammate, Stromile Swift. <----EEK!


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## bronx43

I hear on the radio that we got Rudy Gay and I was ecstatic. 











Then, I come home to THIS...I have no faith in our management anymore. 28 year old Shane Battier for 21 year old Rudy Gay? Why don't we throw in Tracy in there with Gay and Swift? Rudy Gay is Shane Battier AT THE WORST! AKA, if Rudy Gay is a bust, he will be a Shane Battier, but longer and more athletic. Though I love Yao, I'm damn close to losing hope for this sad sad team.


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## tang

isnt Rudy 19?


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## K-Dub

:curse: :curse: :curse: :curse: :curse: DAMN YOU DAWSON!!! DAMN YOOOOOOOU!


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## The_Franchise

> Asked about his attempts to move up and get Roy, Dawson said: "We tried everything we could. Got close once. I thought we had it."
> 
> Portland is believed to have offered the fourth overall pick to the Rockets for the eighth pick. To do that deal, the Blazers wanted the Rockets to take Darius Miles, who has a huge contract and makes Stromile Swift look like an overachiever.
> 
> Roy went to Minnesota at six, and Dawson went to his fallback position. *Memphis general manager Jerry West had telephoned earlier, offering Battier for the eighth pick and Stromile Swift*.


Great negotiating job by Dawson.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/justice/ /4011170.html


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## bronx43

tang said:


> isnt Rudy 19?


You're right. I hate CD twice as much now.


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## chn353

Dawson might have been in love with Rudy Gay's potential, but he knew Van Gundy was unlikely to play a 19-year-old. He wants talent, but also maturity, decision-making and defense.


DIE JVG DIE

jvg hasnt done nything for rockets......
didnt play chuck hayes
didnt teach offense
didnt do anything


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## Yao Mania

Mr. Predictable said:


> Great negotiating job by Dawson.
> 
> http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/justice/ /4011170.html


Reading that makes me hate JVG even more. Not playing a 19 year old? So if Lebron was on this team he'd be benched?


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## chn353

ohh and i hate richard justice... he said the rockets did the right move...
right move my ***
right move if ur a memphis fan


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## K-Dub

If this trade goes through, I cannot continue being a fan of the Rockets organization.. Battier is good.. but for Rudy Gay, whose worst-case scenario is... Shane Battier himself...?!?!?!? I just can't do it. I broke my damn TV for this organization and this is the thanks I, and we Rockets fans, get?


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## hitokiri315

K-Dub said:


> If this trade goes through, I cannot continue being a fan of the Rockets organization.. Battier is good.. but for Rudy Gay, whose worst-case scenario is... Shane Battier himself...?!?!?!? I just can't do it. I broke my damn TV for this organization and this is the thanks I, and we Rockets fans, get?


dam i hope your tv was an old one. thats a lil extreme breaking a tv. a radio yes, toaster, microwave, gameboy, window, but not a tv. I would never do something that extreme.

you are hardcore man, you must bleed rockets.


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## K-Dub

I'm just real frustrated right now. We're trading away a player who fills all our needs as a wing, is 19 years old with humongous potential, 6'9"/ 7'3" wingspan, and who is willing to defer.. for Battier. If I ever catch JVG anywhere.. :curse: HULK SMAAAAAASH


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## debarge

CbobbyB said:


> its the Houston Texans all over again


What in hell can the rockets be possibly thinking??? I was at the draft party when they announced it, ironically Juwan Howard Chuck and Rafer were up on stage with Bill Worrell saying "Well now You gotta take Rudy Gay, the crowd starts chanting Rudy Rudy Rudy  while we're on the clock. Then Rick Buchers butt is on the jumbo screen saying the Rockets' will take Rudy gay but don't bank on him staying there, theres a trade on board to send Gays' rights the division rival Memphis Grizzlies?????

WTF!!!! Juwan and Bill tried to calm the crowd down, everyone was booing and yelling, half the people there, Me INCLUDED LEFT THE TOYOTA CENTER AFTER HEARING THIS CRAP. :curse: There were like 10,000 fans there all excited about Roy or Brewer or somebody like that? Then we get Gay and send him to a div. foe??? What sense does that make, we did exactly what the Texans did???   WHY WHY WHY DOES THIS KEEP HAPPENING TO HOUSTON FANS???

PS I don't think anyone on here dislikes Shane Battier, its just not a smart deal which is whats' bothering most of us? We should've gotten MEM's pks along with him to give Up GAY??? You got nothing for a bordeline allstar someday? This is just utterly ridiculous, and the media wonders why Tmac hasn't bee out of the 1st rd, he keeps getting F--ked by his GMs. Yao and Tmac deserve alot better than this charade the Rockets put on for weeks now, saying they wanted a Starter from this draft. I know Tmac was at home like am I dreaming is this a nightmare, we gave away Rudy Gay.


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## hitokiri315

K-Dub said:


> I'm just real frustrated right now. We're trading away a player who fills all our needs as a wing, is 19 years old with humongous potential, 6'9"/ 7'3" wingspan, and who is willing to defer.. for Battier. If I ever catch JVG anywhere.. :curse: HULK SMAAAAAASH


i did not care about the texans draft. cuz im a cowboy fan. but after this crap i know how you guys feel i am so sorry you had to go through this crap twice in one fn year. why do we like being the laughing stock of all professional sports?


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## bronx43

debarge said:


> What in hell can the rockets be possibly thinking??? I was at the draft party when they announced it, ironically Juwan Howard Chuck and Rafer were up on stage with Bill Worrell saying "Well now You gotta take Rudy Gay, the crowd starts chanting Rudy Rudy Rudy  while we're on the clock. Then Rick Buchers butt is on the jumbo screen saying the Rockets' will take Rudy gay but don't bank on him staying there, theres a trade on board to send Gays' rights the division rival Memphis Grizzlies?????
> 
> WTF!!!! Juwan and Bill tried to calm the crowd down, everyone was booing and yelling, half the people there, Me INCLUDED LEFT THE TOYOTA CENTER AFTER HEARING THIS CRAP. :curse: There were like 10,000 fans there all excited about Roy or Brewer or somebody like that? Then we get Gay and send him to a div. foe??? What sense does that make, we did exactly what the Texans did???   WHY WHY WHY DOES THIS KEEP HAPPENING TO HOUSTON FANS???
> 
> PS I don't think anyone on here dislikes Shane Battier, its just not a smart deal which is whats' bothering most of us? We should've gotten MEM's pks along with him to give Up GAY??? You got nothing for a bordeline allstar someday? This is just utterly ridiculous, and the media wonders why Tmac hasn't bee out of the 1st rd, he keeps getting F--ked by his GMs. Yao and Tmac deserve alot better than this charade the Rockets put on for weeks now, saying they wanted a Starter from this draft. I know Tmac was at home like am I dreaming is this a nightmare, we gave away Rudy Gay.



Say this to yourself a few times. We. Gave. Away. Rudy. Gay. 
Then breathe in, and imagine taking a tire iron to Dawson's forehead.


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## Samael

The only way to stop this trade now is for Shane battier to fail the medical check.

Ok, so now the question is which one of you will volunteer to smash Shane's knee with a hammer??


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## K-Dub

PETITION TIME, courtesy of the good folks over at ClutchFans. I don't exactly agree with firing JVG, but hopefully they'll listen to the first part.


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## Samael

Holy Crap!!! I just thought of it, can't just houston say that Shane didn't pass the medical check that way the trade is void?!?!?!?


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## K-Dub

Samael said:


> The only way to stop this trade now is for Shane battier to fail the medical check.
> 
> Ok, so now the question is which one of you will volunteer to smash Shane's knee with a hammer??


*raises hand* Pick me... PICK ME

EDIT: I need to sleep before I break something else. >.<


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## chocolove

FIRE JVG!! OMG SO ANGRY!!! :curse: HAVE TO TYPE IN CAPS AND NOT SENTENCES!!... okay anyways, lets break some knees


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## talula

Thought you guys might find this interesting.



> The trade was set up in advance, but it was a long shot, to say the least.
> 
> The Grizzlies would send Shane Battier to Houston for the No. 8 pick in the draft.
> 
> The catch: Houston would only do the deal if all of the five players they wanted at No. 8 were gone by the time they picked.
> 
> Five players!
> 
> Surely, one would still be there, right?
> 
> Things never work out for the Grizzlies. Remember LeBron and the ping-pong balls?
> 
> Incredibly, the players Houston wanted started to go.
> 
> One, two, three, four ...
> 
> "It had to break perfectly," said Memphis president Jerry West.
> 
> With the No. 7 pick, Portland picked Randy Foye.
> 
> "There were some pretty excited people in the draft room," said West.
> 
> All five players were gone.
> 
> Houston picked Rudy Gay from Connecticut, then shipped him along with old friend Stromile Swift to Memphis.




Link


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## GNG

Thanks, Carroll! :banana: :bbanana:


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## Chalie Boy

:rotf: terrible, terrible trade


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## chn353

AGHHHHHH!!!! if houston was goina trade the number 8 anywayz why couldnt they have picked a loser to deal to memphis ... like a ryan bowen equivalent

DIE CD DIE


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## knickstorm

talula said:


> Thought you guys might find this interesting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Link


how could gay not be in the 5? roy, aldridge, foye, bargnani, thomas, that' must've been the 5?


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## CbobbyB

this is sickening


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## Eduardo

**** JVG and CD. I have lost all faith I ever had in them. They're pathetic old men who are destroying this team. Les please get rid of them both now. Yao and T-mac deserve so much better than them. Im so freaking mad that I cant debate about what we gave up for shane. Shane is nice, but not worth Rudy and Stro.


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## CrackerJack

*Gay Trade*



> The proposed Grizzlies-Rockets trade first reported by ESPN.com's Andy Katz that would send Shane Battier to Houston for the rights to the No. 8 pick in Wednesday's draft (Rudy Gay) can't be completed until the trade moratorium ends in mid-July.
> Battier is a base year compensation player and needs his salary to reset July 1.


thats one NO MASKED CURSING -YM gay trade alright, thats bloody daylight robbery, i thought CD was awesome but that move may prove costly down the road i mean for gay is enough but then to throw in swift aswell geez and isnt battier like 30+?


----------



## CbobbyB

*Re: Gay Trade*

When San Antonio and Dallas become "normal" teams..thats when Memphis will step up into the "elite" form and take over the division(and the NBA) with Rudy Gay leading the team to playoff success..meanwhile, we will be stuck with some more role players along with Yao & Tmac close to retirement..."Houston, we have a problem."


----------



## TracywtFacy

the chron says battier is "one of the best defensive players in the NBA"? i don't know much about this dood, tell me this is true... not to mention what we need on this team is a third scoring threat :curse: 

does he have much potential to become a good player? He doesn't seem to score much, but he was taken pretty high in his draft, and still relatively young... 

what is this ****ing stupid deal anyway, where we agreed to ship our no.8 pick only if we couldn't get any of the five players we wanted? why the hell did gay's stock drop so much, he was touted so highly, are all those gm's acutely homophobic? didn't think they'd sell enough gay jerseys? 

i guess the only redeeming thing is that our team's ready to get to the playoffs now, rather than wait around for gay to develop, and battier is a starter who can give an immediate step up for us, but we coulda gotten much more value for gay and stro, and we still have glaring weaknesses on the payroll we have to sort out, and already our two best trading assets are now gone... i'm praying for a miracle this deal will somehow be cancelled, or atleast we can get more out of it... failing that, something inside of battier is released and he becomes a superstar for us


----------



## Hakeem

Whose fault is it -- CD's or JVG's? I used to be a fan of JVG. I hope he wasn't the one who drove this.


----------



## Samael

When I heard that Portland drafted Randy Foye I was going nuts at home because I knew that Gay was there for the taking for Houston. I was already imagining it.

C Yao Ming
PF Juwan Howard
SF Rudy Gay
SG Tracy McGrady
PG Rafer Alston

Just imagine it, you have 3 guys at 6'9" not to mention that the 2 and 3 positions would be quick and athletic as hell and Houston would be the tallest team in the league creating match up nightmares for every single team they encounter. CD you mother****er!!!

Forgive me, but I now have a sudden urge to kill because of this trade. Too bad for the first animal I meet.


----------



## Samael

Just to add Battier is averaging 10 pts per game at Memphis this season at worst that is what Gay could be averaging in his rookie year if he were a starter not to mention the potential. Damn.


----------



## TracywtFacy

plz explain to me how stro got roped into this deal? wasn't it just no.8 for battier?


----------



## Dream Hakeem

I am not a Rockets fan anymore


----------



## CrackerJack

how did we not manage to rope in another player in that deal, this has to be one of the most unpopular moves in Houston Rocket history


----------



## ralaw

This will prove to be one of the most stupid moves in draft history. No offense, but Battier is the type of player who a team on the brink of a championship would bring in for perimeter defense and outside shooing, not ot a team who still is about 2-3 years away. With McGrady always being a question with his back issues, Gay would have been the perfect fit to ease some of the creating McGrady is forced to do every night. A tandom of Yao and Gay would have been this teams foundation for the next 10-12 years.


----------



## Dream Hakeem

Grizzlies Rule!!!


----------



## Dream Hakeem

If its dumb enough to trade Gay to another team

How stupid is he to trade Gay to someone in our own division!!!!!


----------



## reno2000

How the hell was Rudy Gay not in the top 5 that Houston wanted. At worst he was our 6th choice, and if so, they why trade. I mean seriously looking at the so called top 8 prospects, any of them could fit into this team, thats how many weaknesses we seem to have. 

And then douche Dawson, has to go and trade away a player that could be the future of the Rockets together with Yao. Who else better to learn under, than Tmac, a player who is basically what Rudy Gay will become minus some length, plus some playmaking. 

I have lost all faith in the management. Given what has happened today, Rockets are no longer my No.1 team in the NBA.


----------



## Dream Hakeem

^join the club


----------



## WhoRocks

Sometimes the best move is the move you never made.


----------



## reno2000

From all reports it seems like this trade was Dawson's back-up plan, in case **** hit the fan.... What a crap backup. If anything this trade is the equivalent to Dawson throwing **** at the fan, and then standing underneath instead of ducking for cover.


----------



## lingi1206

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/justice/4011218.html

ARE U KIDDING ME? BATTIE CAN FILL THAT MUCH OF A NEED???? THIS IS COMPLETE [email protected]#$%
:curse:


----------



## debarge

TracywtFacy said:


> the chron says battier is "one of the best defensive players in the NBA"? i don't know much about this dood, tell me this is true... not to mention what we need on this team is a third scoring threat :curse:
> 
> does he have much potential to become a good player? He doesn't seem to score much, but he was taken pretty high in his draft, and still relatively young...
> 
> what is this ****ing stupid deal anyway, where we agreed to ship our no.8 pick only if we couldn't get any of the five players we wanted? why the hell did gay's stock drop so much, he was touted so highly, are all those gm's acutely homophobic? didn't think they'd sell enough gay jerseys?
> 
> i guess the only redeeming thing is that our team's ready to get to the playoffs now, rather than wait around for gay to develop, and battier is a starter who can give an immediate step up for us, but we coulda gotten much more value for gay and stro, and we still have glaring weaknesses on the payroll we have to sort out, and already our two best trading assets are now gone... i'm praying for a miracle this deal will somehow be cancelled, or atleast we can get more out of it... failing that, something inside of battier is released and he becomes a superstar for us


Let me say first and foremost this isn't about the talents of Shane Battier at all. We just made a stupid basketball mistake from a talent standpoint, and a buisness standpoint. I had hoped that with Morey whose a stat guy, we'd make a more informed (Rudy T like) decision and go with straight ability and upside. (Say what you will about RudyT he knew talent when he saw no matter what round a guy was in...) He also didn't give up on players who worked really hard to improve ie. Kenny Thomas, Othella Harrinton, Matt Bullard, and some guy named ROBERT HORRY. We gave up on Baxter, now we don't have a backup pf/c for Yao except ancient Dke. That deal with the Bobcats for Bogans now looks so silly to me, Baxter an inexpensive dependable guy who could get better, and was more animated than Stro on his worst day we sent packing for somebody who can't shoot worth a damn.
JEFF SUCKS FIRE HIM AND LET TOM TIBIDEUAX COACH THE TEAM. This is all Jeff, and CD I thought was alot smarter than this??? I feel so SO BAD FOR TRACY/YAO/HOWARD/RAFER they thought they would get youth, speed, shooting, a third guy, what they're getting is David Wesley 6 inches taller??? Shane this is no indictment on you brother, you're just not Shawn Marion (3rd guy), you're not even Caron Butler. These are guys who are aggressive and will and can put up 20 10 if their team needs it. Battier is the ultimate Jeff guy, jack of all trades but not stellar at anything. I have no problem with him on my team, he's a solid ball player, JUST NOT WHAT WE NEEDED. We NEEDED A SHOOTING GUARD??? Not a small forward who isn't that good handling the ball or passing into the post. Why don't we ask Pau Gasol how many assists Shane got for him in the post, not many I tell you. 
On the bright side, we DO GET BETTER just not CHAMPIONSHIP BETTER. If this deal stands, then we damn well better get somebody like MJames or Jeffries or a LEGIT 3RD GUY FOR SCORING PURPOSES. Shane isn't gonna be enough to put us in elite standings with DAL, SA, and PHO. I know if we're not at least the 4th seed, this will have been pointless. Shane has to have a CAREER YEAR TO HELP US. The guy doens't average 13pts a game?


----------



## K-Dub

Samael said:


> When I heard that Portland drafted Randy Foye I was going nuts at home because I knew that Gay was there for the taking for Houston. I was already imagining it.
> 
> C Yao Ming
> PF Juwan Howard
> SF Rudy Gay
> SG Tracy McGrady
> PG Rafer Alston
> 
> Just imagine it, you have 3 guys at 6'9" not to mention that the 2 and 3 positions would be quick and athletic as hell and Houston would be the tallest team in the league creating match up nightmares for every single team they encounter. CD you mother****er!!!
> 
> Forgive me, but I now have a sudden urge to kill because of this trade. Too bad for the first animal I meet.


 I was right infront of the TV when Roy was picked.  Then Portland picked Foye. :banana: :banana: :banana: :clap: You should've seen the celebration. Houston picks Gay. "YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES!" Katz,"Houston will be trading Rudy Gay to the Memphis Grizzlies in exchange for Shane Battier." *TV screen shatters*
Bloody knuckles indeed..


----------



## Minstrel

I would say something to the effect of Dawson hung around just long enough to wreck this team's future, but evidently his picked successor was also behind the deal.

Not optimistic about the Rockets' front office future.


----------



## Mr. Hobbes

Is Swift part of the deal or not? Some sources don't mention him; some do.


----------



## TracywtFacy

debarge said:


> Let me say first and foremost this isn't about the talents of Shane Battier at all. We just made a stupid basketball mistake from a talent standpoint, and a buisness standpoint.




no ****, but since we're gonna be stuck with him, might as well see if he has any game


----------



## Ruff Draft

Stilllllllllll not official is it? There is hope!


----------



## GNG

XMATTHEWX said:


> Stilllllllllll not official is it? There is hope!


July 12. That's when Battier's BYC status expires, and the salaries can work.


----------



## TManiAC

Rawse said:


> July 12. That's when Battier's BYC status expires, and the salaries can work.


Then stop rocking that avi until July 12, jerk.

[just a bitter joke Rawse]


----------



## The_Franchise

Battier is the perfect small PF for this team to give Yao space to work with. 

But I want Mike Miller as well. It makes sense, us getting weak #3 (Miller) and #6 (Battier) picks for a terrible #2 (Swift) pick and a potentially great #8 pick (Rudy). Something needs to be added by Memphis to the deal by the 12th, I will not stand for JVG's inability to develop or evaluate talent. Or his reckless abandon for the future of this team so he can save his *** for the season in the final year of his contract.


----------



## The_Franchise

Send them Luther Head and next year's 1st for throwing in Mike Miller. PLEASE


----------



## CbobbyB

^^I would love to have Mike Miller


----------



## GNG

Mr. Predictable said:


> Battier is the perfect small PF for this team to give Yao space to work with.
> 
> But I want Mike Miller as well. It makes sense, us getting weak #3 (Miller) and #6 (Battier) picks for a terrible #2 (Swift) pick and a potentially great #8 pick (Rudy). Something needs to be added by Memphis to the deal by the 12th, I will not stand for JVG's inability to develop or evaluate talent. Or his reckless abandon for the future of this team so he can save his *** for the season leading up to his contract expiring.


C'mon, Cardigan. Where a player got drafted doesn't really matter six years after the fact. Stro's a 9/5 bench player. Miller's a 13/5 fringe starter. Battier's 10/5 starter depending on how good the team chemistry is.

And Mike Miller was drafted fifth overall.


----------



## The_Franchise

Rawse said:


> C'mon, Cardigan. Where a player got drafted doesn't really matter six years after the fact. Stro's a 9/5 bench player. Miller's a 13/5 fringe starter. Battier's 10/5 starter depending on how good the team chemistry is.
> 
> And Mike Miller was drafted fifth overall.


You can't always use logic in times of desperation.


----------



## GNG

Mr. Predictable said:


> You can't always use logic in times of desperation.


Want to trade your great No. 9 pick (TMac) for our decent No. 7 pick (Stoudamire)? 

Seriously though, depending on what other salary is used, I'd hope Memphis would consider that 1st/Head-for-Miller trade.


----------



## knickstorm

maybe they can grab warrick as throw in


----------



## reno2000

Considering that management is focused on winning now rather than later, giving them 1st + Lu for Miller is great. He gives us scoring of the bench, keeps team chemistry high (he is good friends with Tmac), and means we can use the MLE on a backup PF/C or a proper PG, not Mike James. From what I see, only reason we are interested in MJ is for his scoring.


----------



## Minstrel

Miller/Battier for Swift/Gay would be much more fair. But I seriously doubt any changes to the deal will be made.

Miller and Battier, though, would make the Rockets awfully formidable.


----------



## CrackerJack

i just sent a message to rockets.com about my anguish everyone should do the same and sign petitions or whatever or even start a rally at toyota centre if you're in houston cos we cant let our draft steal go


----------



## crazyfan

TracywtFacy said:


> the chron says battier is "one of the best defensive players in the NBA"? i don't know much about this dood, tell me this is true... not to mention what we need on this team is a third scoring threat :curse:
> 
> does he have much potential to become a good player? He doesn't seem to score much, but he was taken pretty high in his draft, and still relatively young...
> 
> what is this ****ing stupid deal anyway, where we agreed to ship our no.8 pick only if we couldn't get any of the five players we wanted? why the hell did gay's stock drop so much, he was touted so highly, are all those gm's acutely homophobic? didn't think they'd sell enough gay jerseys?
> 
> i guess the only redeeming thing is that our team's ready to get to the playoffs now, rather than wait around for gay to develop, and battier is a starter who can give an immediate step up for us, but we coulda gotten much more value for gay and stro, and we still have glaring weaknesses on the payroll we have to sort out, and already our two best trading assets are now gone... i'm praying for a miracle this deal will somehow be cancelled, or atleast we can get more out of it... failing that, something inside of battier is released and he becomes a superstar for us




I would have DEFINITELY bought a Rudy Gay No.22 Rockets Jersey but no way a Battier (whatever his number is) jersey


----------



## Cap

OK, I understand the frustration from Rocket fans but, uh, what the hell has Rudy Gay done in the NBA? Don't commit suicide until he actually does something.


----------



## tone wone

I understand what you're sayin but this just doesn't feel, look or taste right. A lot of factors go into this thinking but I think the 2 biggest are 1) this trade didn't NEED to happen and 2) this trade doesn't make Houston THAT much better than they were in '05.

And dont get me started on how stale this team is and how we need a little excitement or how by 2008 Battier may not be able to wash Gays drawers or how Van Gundy only has 1 year left on his deal and has said publicly that if was up to him he would trade the pick for a "vet."


----------



## crazyfan

tone wone said:


> I understand what you're sayin but this just doesn't feel, look or taste right. A lot of factors go into this thinking but I think the 2 biggest are 1) this trade didn't NEED to happen and 2) this trade doesn't make Houston THAT much better than they were in '05.
> 
> And dont get me started on how stale this team is and how we need a little excitement or how by 2008 Battier may not be able to wash Gays drawers or how Van Gundy only has 1 year left on his deal and has said publicly that if was up to him he would trade the pick for a "vet."





I couldnt agree more. I dont see the purpose in the trade. It doesnt make houston a better team.


----------



## Cap

^ Um, it makes Houston a much better team. Who the hell knows what Gay would have brought as a rookie. I guarantee you no where near the D Battier plays (his on-the-ball D is, IMO, the most underrated in the NBA), that much is for certain. The rest? Who knows. Too early to tell. People are talking like they can predict the future. If Rudy Gay was _that_ much of a guarantee he would have gone #1. Remember, this was a weak *** draft.


----------



## Hakeem

I pretty much agree. A couple of weeks ago I was actually wondering how great it would be if we somehow got Shane Battier. Gay was my favorite player in this year's draft, but he is far from being a guaranteed future All-Star, let alone a solid starter for the next couple of seasons. Guys like Shelden Williams were selected ahead of him. I want the Rockets to win a title now regardless of what happens afterwards. Nothing compares with a championship. I don't want the team to be stuck at 50 wins for five years. 

Still a bad trade, though.


----------



## lingi1206

Hakeem said:


> I pretty much agree. A couple of weeks ago I was actually wondering how great it would be if we somehow got Shane Battier. Gay was my favorite player in this year's draft, but he is far from being a guaranteed future All-Star, let alone a solid starter for the next couple of seasons. Guys like Shelden Williams were selected ahead of him. I want the Rockets to win a title now regardless of what happens afterwards. Nothing compares with a championship. I don't want the team to be stuck at 50 wins for five years.
> 
> Still a bad trade, though.



agree 100%


----------



## ralaw

EHL said:


> ^ Um, it makes Houston a much better team. Who the hell knows what Gay would have brought as a rookie. I guarantee you no where near the D Battier plays (his on-the-ball D is, IMO, the most underrated in the NBA), that much is for certain. The rest? Who knows. Too early to tell. People are talking like they can predict the future. If Rudy Gay was _that_ much of a guarantee he would have gone #1. Remember, this was a weak *** draft.


You are correct we don't know what Gay will be, but than again we don't know what any rookie will become; however, that doesn't stop people from drafting players. I understand this is an attempt to validate the trade, but come on, would you be saying this if you guys kept Gay instead? All signs point to Gay being at worse what Battier is at his best and this is why in my opinion it was a poor trade. Battier being a great on the ball defender really has no value for the Rockets, Battier is the type of player a team on the brink brings in to get them over the top, but the Rockets aren't in this position. The Rockets should be building for now and the future and Gay provides both options.


----------



## lingi1206

"When they told me that's the deal we made, I was so happy," McGrady said. "Shane is a solid player and the type of player we need, a player that can inspire the team with hustle plays, a defensive presence. He's smart and can shoot outside. But I really like that when we match up with Phoenix or Dallas, we can match up with Shane at the four.

"From what I'm hearing, people are (angry). They don't understand; we're trying to win now. We don't want a guy that will take three years to develop. We're trying to win this season. I think Rudy's going to be a pretty good player. But what we need right now, this season, is Shane Battier. This is definitely a good trade."


this is coming form T-MAC does this tell u something? like T-MAC Is feeling old and his chance of winning a championship is limilted? :dead: this doesn't make me feel any better


----------



## tone wone

ralaw said:


> You are correct we don't know what Gay will be, but than again we don't know what any rookie will become; however, that doesn't stop people from drafting players. I understand this is an attempt to validate the trade, but come on, would you be saying this if you guys kept Gay instead? All signs point to Gay being at worse what Battier is at his best and this is why in my opinion it was a poor trade. Battier being a great on the ball defender really has no value for the Rockets, Battier is the type of player a team on the brink brings in to get them over the top, but the Rockets aren't in this position. The Rockets should be building for now and the future and Gay provides both options.


Stro + Gay should land you more than Shane Battier....PERIOD. Im not a fan of trading the pick at any circumstance cause I feel that if you feel that bad about McGrady's future you need to be trying your hardest to get rid of him. Which means you need peices for the future.

So, once again Houston takes an average player and ask him to do more than what he's capable of....while overpaying him.

So I ask......was this trade needed???


----------



## AZNoob

Actually, if you get time to mull over this trade, Battier may just be the perfect fit for the Rockets. Shane can be that third option, and great perimeter defender that Houston REEEEELY needs. But all in all, this trade does not satisfy me, unless we get more from Memphis.


----------



## ralaw

tone wone said:


> Stro + Gay should land you more than Shane Battier....PERIOD. Im not a fan of trading the pick at any circumstance cause I feel that if you feel that bad about McGrady's future you need to be trying your hardest to get rid of him. Which means you need peices for the future.
> 
> So, once again Houston takes an average player and ask him to do more than what he's capable of....while overpaying him.
> 
> So I ask......was this trade needed???


I agree the trade isn't needed, but what I'm tring to figure out and maybe you Houston fans can help me out is, was this trade done before the Rockets found out Gay was going to slide? It seems Houston fans and everyone else pretty much considers Gay to be the perfect fit for this team making the decision to draft him rather obvious. What is this teams philosophy? I threesome of Yao, McGrady and Gay would have been a tough match up for any team in the West. Battier is a good player, but he isn't the type who puts this team over the top. It makes me wonder what they have in the works to pull this trade off.


----------



## AZNoob

Hakeem said:


> A couple of weeks ago I was actually wondering how great it would be if we somehow got Shane Battier.


Wow...that feeling of clairvoyancy is kicking in...of all the players in the NBA, Shane? Lmao.


----------



## ralaw

AZNoob said:


> Actually, if you get time to mull over this trade, Battier may just be the perfect fit for the Rockets. Shane can be that third option, and great perimeter defender that Houston REEEEELY needs. But all in all, this trade does not satisfy me, unless we get more from Memphis.


Battier does fit this team; however, so does Gay. I understand Battier provides perimeter defense, but what good does that do Houston now, as this team isn't yet a contender. This team realistically should be on a 3 year plan to win a Championship and this is the same time Gay will be coming into his own as an offensive and more importantly a defensive player. Houston with McGrady's back problems will be in need of someone who can take pressure of him from the perimeter and Gay fit this role perfectly. As good as Battier is as a role player, it will be possible to find someone of his calibur when the time is needed (2-3 years); however, trading Gay for that type of player now is foolish at best.


----------



## AZNoob

Why is everyone counting on Tracy to hurt his back again? What if he doesn't? Then Rudy will average about 13-15 PPG at the most, but he may not provide that great defense Shane does. All I am saying is that there will be future drafts to come, and that this may be the best chance the Rockets have to win a 'ship this year, than to wait for Gay to POSSIBLE develop into a Vince Carter or Tracy Mac type player.


----------



## ralaw

AZNoob said:


> Why is everyone counting on Tracy to hurt his back again? What if he doesn't? Then Rudy will average about 13-15 PPG at the most, but he may not provide that great defense Shane does. All I am saying is that there will be future drafts to come, and that this may be the best chance the Rockets have to win a 'ship this year, than to wait for Gay to POSSIBLE develop into a Vince Carter or Tracy Mac type player.


People aren't counting on McGrady to get injured. However, regardless of McGrady's injury or not, Gay is the best pick. If McGrady does get injured you have Gay who would be able to provide a perimeter threat until he gets back and if McGrady doesn't get hurt you have a 3 options offensively in Yao, Mcgrady and Gay. Houston is fine either way with Gay and this is the point. Battier does provide good defense, but his defense isn't that great that he'll be able to make a difference for this team (ie winning a championship) and this is the second point. Battier is the type of guy you bring in on a team on the brink of a championship, not a team still building. Sorry to bust your bubble, but with or without Gay, Houston isn't winning a championship this year. As I said Houston is at best 2-3 years away, which is the same time Gay will be coming into his own as a player in this league, which is perfect timing.


----------



## AZNoob

or 2-3 years later when Tracy exits NBA due to back pains. Either way, Im not saying we dont need Gay, cause this trade stunk. But Battier is a great to have.


----------



## ralaw

AZNoob said:


> or 2-3 years later when Tracy exits NBA due to back pains. Either way, Im not saying we dont need Gay, cause this trade stunk. But Battier is a great to have.


No doubt he is great to have, but he (or a player of equal ability) would be even better to have 2-3 years down the road when you already have Yao, McGrady and Gay.


----------



## tone wone

How does everyone know who does and doesn't fit this team??? Houston isn't some well-oiled machine with a super successful system that has been proven to bring you championships. They've only been together for 2 years...won 3 playoff games and found themselves in the lottery. Stop acting like you're the Spurs.

Houston is in NO position to say no to talent and potential.


----------



## AZNoob

Yeah. That is true. Oh, and congrats to Orlando for getting J.J. Man, Arroyo, Milicic, D-How, and Redick...Wow...ORL better make the playoffs next year with THAT talent.


----------



## ralaw

AZNoob said:


> Yeah. That is true. Oh, and congrats to Orlando for getting J.J. Man, Arroyo, Milicic, D-How, and Redick...Wow...ORL better make the playoffs next year with THAT talent.


Thanks, but you can't forget about Jameer Nelson! I like the JJ Redick pick, but I was praying Gay would have fell to #11. However, that was more of a wish than reality. Nonetheless, I like the players assembled, as everyone compliments each other talent wise, now it's just a matter of putting it together and finding a perimeter defender.


----------



## sherwin

tone wone said:


> How does everyone know who does and doesn't fit this team??? Houston isn't some well-oiled machine with a super successful system that has been proven to bring you championships. They've only been together for 2 years...won 3 playoff games and found themselves in the lottery. Stop acting like you're the Spurs.
> 
> Houston is in NO position to say no to talent and potential.


exactly. this organization likes to pretend it's greater than it is cause they are high valued and have 2 superstars.

but we're not. we're in the bottom tier.

we have the worst team in the southwest division.


----------



## TManiAC

sherwin said:


> exactly. this organization likes to pretend it's greater than it is cause they are high valued and have 2 superstars.
> 
> but we're not. we're in the bottom tier.
> 
> we have the worst team in the southwest division.


You two are a bit extreme no? I mean, we are a bit away from contending, but if it werent for injuries, we would have gotten close this past year.


----------



## Gotham2krazy

sherwin said:


> exactly. this organization likes to pretend it's greater than it is cause they are high valued and have 2 superstars.
> 
> but we're not. we're in the bottom tier.
> 
> we have the worst team in the southwest division.


Hell yeah, we haven't been in the 2nd round yet in the last 4 years even though we've had two superstars then. The Rockets are SO OVERHYPED. It makes me so irate that we have nobody clutch except for McGrady. I'd like to have 2nd or 3rd option when the game is on the line please.


----------



## Cabron_James

Battier's defense is overated!! It is solely based on reputation, when was the last time you saw him completely shut down a star?? His defense is just good but not great so quit talking about him like he's Ron Artest cause he's not and he is getting old. Swift and Gay could have landed you a Ron Artest caliber player. Rudy Gay wasn't getting Pippen comparisons before the draft just for nothing you know his D is good as well, this is a terrible trade.


----------



## AZNoob

ralaw said:


> it's just a matter of putting it together and finding a perimeter defender.


*COUGH* take Shane Battier *COUGH*


----------



## Smooth Lotion

I wish.


----------



## lingi1206

Smooth Lotion said:


> I wish.



HAHA for a sec there i acctually believed that this was a punk :banana: if only if only............ :curse:


----------



## pmac34

this will go down as houstons worst trade ever.
Gay already > Battier
add Stro to that...
oh god...


----------



## Dean the Master

Smooth Lotion said:


> I wish.


If that's true, and I am SM, that's so gonna be my Avatar.


----------



## Hakeem

People are forgetting that this was a 51-win team starting Ryan Bowen, Clarence Weatherspoon, Charlie Ward, Tyronn Lue, Maurice Taylor and Scott Padgett at various stages, and with Yao averaging just 18/8. Now we have Shane Battier and Rafer Alston and Luther Head and possibly a new-and-improved Mike James, and Yao has averaged 27/12 on ridiculous efficiency in his last 30 games. We are not bottom tier.


----------



## lingi1206

Hakeem said:


> People are forgetting that this was a 51-win team starting Ryan Bowen, Clarence Weatherspoon, Charlie Ward, Tyronn Lue, Maurice Taylor and Scott Padgett at various stages, and with Yao averaging just 18/8. Now we have Shane Battier and Rafer Alston and Luther Head and possibly a new-and-improved Mike James, and Yao has averaged 27/12 on ridiculous efficiency in his last 30 games. We are not bottom tier.



well don't froget t-mac was much healthly back then and Lue Taylor weren't with us long, thanks to Barry, and others that were brought over did we become good but we don't have those guys anymore our 51 win was when we were healthy AND thanks to our half season trade not Taylor or Lue


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## Hakeem

^ After we traded for Wesley we won 71% of our games despite having the toughest post-break schedule of any team. That's equivalent to 58 wins. Weatherspoon started in 18 of those. 

We have to assume that T-Mac will be healthy. If he isn't, then there's no chance of a title no matter who we drafted (and kept). 

The Rockets aren't serious title threats on the level of Dallas, SA, etc. But we have a genuine chance, though our window may not be very large.


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## Demiloy

pmac34 said:


> this will go down as houstons worst trade ever.
> Gay already > Battier
> add Stro to that...
> oh god...


 Gay better than Battier? No way. Battier is way better, he's one of the elite role players out there.

Think about it for a moment. The Rockets management say their "window of opportunity" is just three years. Will Gay be able to contribute much in those three years? I doubt it. Will Battier? Yes, very much so.


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## ralaw

Demiloy said:


> Gay better than Battier? No way. Battier is way better, he's one of the elite role players out there.
> 
> Think about it for a moment. The Rockets management say their "window of opportunity" is just three years. Will Gay be able to contribute much in those three years? I doubt it. Will Battier? Yes, very much so.


If Rockets management believes they only have a 3 year "window of opporunity" everyone from the president of basketball operations to the janitor need to be fired. This team has a young superstar in Yao Ming and a fairly young superstar in McGrady. This team should be on a "3 year plan" to win a championship, not a "window of opppurtunity." In 3 years Yao will be 29 and McGrady will be 30, which are prime ages for them to win a championship. Gay at this point would be 23, while having extablished himself as a proven star. In 3 years with Rudy Gay the Rockets would be in contention for a title well past 2009 every year until Yao starts to decline. The Rockets havn't been in contention for a title for several years and this isn't going to change right now which is why the Battier trade was foolish. Anyone who believes this team as constructed could compete with San Antonio, Dallas and Pheonix for a championship are sadly mistaken.


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## LA68

ralaw said:


> If Rockets management believes they only have a 3 year "window of opporunity" everyone from the president of basketball operations to the janitor need to be fired. This team has a young superstar in Yao Ming and a fairly young superstar in McGrady. This team should be on a "3 year plan" to win a championship, not a "window of opppurtunity." In 3 years Yao will be 29 and McGrady will be 30, which are prime ages for them to win a championship. Gay at this point would be 23, while having extablished himself as a proven star. In 3 years with Rudy Gay the Rockets would be in contention for a title well past 2009 every year until Yao starts to decline. The Rockets havn't been in contention for a title for several years and this isn't going to change right now which is why the Battier trade was foolish. Anyone who believes this team as constructed could compete with San Antonio, Dallas and Pheonix for a championship are sadly mistaken.


This team may have like a one or two year window !! 

You seem to have forgotten: TMac has a bad back that will never go away regardless of what he says. He has ruined many seasons with that back. Just because his teams were not in contention he could sit out. He does not have many years left.

Swift is a perfect example. He was the NUMBER TWO PICK!!! What has he done in any season ??? He is too soft for the PF and has no skills for the 3. He is less talented than TChandler...at least Chandler can rebound. Swift is the biggest bust because he has gotten playing time and done nothing. Yao was out hurt last year and what did Swift do ???? Not a doggone thing !!!

How do you know Gay won't be the same way ?? He couldn't even get his team past George Mason !! He is passive and not ready for anything. Just like another Reece Gaines, all the talent but, just stands around. 

With Battier, you know what you are getting. Houston does not have the time to wait for this guy to wake up. They did the right thing and got rid of a bad contract. If it goes through, good deal :clap:


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## tone wone

LA68 said:


> This team may have like a one or two year window !!
> 
> You seem to have forgotten: TMac has a bad back that will never go away regardless of what he says. He has ruined many seasons with that back. Just because his teams were not in contention he could sit out. He does not have many years left.
> 
> Swift is a perfect example. He was the NUMBER TWO PICK!!! What has he done in any season ??? He is too soft for the PF and has no skills for the 3. He is less talented than TChandler...at least Chandler can rebound. Swift is the biggest bust because he has gotten playing time and done nothing. Yao was out hurt last year and what did Swift do ???? Not a doggone thing !!!
> 
> How do you know Gay won't be the same way ?? He couldn't even get his team past George Mason !! He is passive and not ready for anything. Just like another Reece Gaines, all the talent but, just stands around.
> 
> With Battier, you know what you are getting. Houston does not have the time to wait for this guy to wake up. They did the right thing and got rid of a bad contract. If it goes through, good deal :clap:


If Houston swung a deal that shipped Gay and Stro to Seattle for Rashard Lewis NO ONE would be upset. You wanna know why??? cause that would've basically guranteed Houston a spot in the WCFs. See, you cant sell "win now" when you bring in a ROLE PLAYER! 

Miami 2 summers ago sold the "win now" philosophy to their fanbase when they traded Butler and Odom to LA for Shaq. They had a young squad that reached the 2nd round of the playoffs and had a very bright future but they saw an opportunity for a title when Shaq became avalible. Thats winning NOW folks. Shane Battier is not an example of winning now.....Shane Battier is an example of "settling."

Is Houston significantly better today than they were tuesday???


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## jworth

tone wone said:


> Is Houston significantly better today than they were tuesday???


Yes, actually. 

There wasn't anyone on Houston who could help Yao and McGrady last year when it came to playing defense and hitting open shots. Battier can do those things and he can do those things consistently. He's not a superstar, but a team that already has TWO superstars doesn't need to make a move for yet ANOTHER one in order to put together a team that can win now. What the Rockets need is guys who can play around Yao and McGrady, and it would be very hard to argue that Battier won't fit in well between those two players. He'll make a BIG difference if he and Houston's two superstars stay healthy.


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## tone wone

jworth said:


> Yes, actually.
> 
> There wasn't anyone on Houston who could help Yao and McGrady last year when it came to playing defense and hitting open shots. Battier can do those things and he can do those things consistently. He's not a superstar, but a team that already has TWO superstars doesn't need to make a move for yet ANOTHER one in order to put together a team that can win now. What the Rockets need is guys who can play around Yao and McGrady, and it would be very hard to argue that Battier won't fit in well between those two players. He'll make a BIG difference if he and Houston's two superstars stay healthy.


I disagree totally. This team is filled with guys who are over their heads. From Howard starting to Alston playing 38 minutes a game to Bowen being in the league. In Memphis Shane averaged *7.5fg* attempts a game. Only *2.04* attempts from 3 in 35 minutes. In comparision Wesley in '05 averaged *10.5fga* and *3.94* attempts from 3 in basically the same amount minutes. HERE Explain to me how he's gonna knock down more shots than Wesley did a season ago??? On a team whose 2nd best scorer comes off the bench he cant even put up 10 shots a game all the while playing 35mpg.

Once again Houston takes a player and asks him to more than he's capable of. He's a 6'8 David Wesley that cant play SG.


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## jworth

tone wone said:


> I disagree totally. This team is filled with guys who are over their heads. From Howard starting to Alston playing 38 minutes a game to Bowen being in the league. In Memphis Shane averaged *7.5fg* attempts a game. Only *2.04* attempts from 3 in 35 minutes. In comparision Wesley in '05 averaged *10.5fga* and *3.94* attempts from 3 in basically the same amount minutes. HERE Explain to me how he's gonna knock down more shots than Wesley did a season ago??? On a team whose 2nd best scorer comes off the bench he cant even put up 10 shots a game all the while playing 35mpg.
> 
> Once again Houston takes a player and asks him to more than he's capable of. He's a 6'8 David Wesley that cant play SG.


That shows us that Wesley took more shots, but that is it. 

Battier shot just under 50 percent from the field and just under 40 percent from behind the arc last season, while Wesley shot 40 percent and 36 percent respectively. Not only is Battier a MUCH more efficient shooter and scorer than Wesley, but he is twice the defender. Battier has also missed only 14 games in his five seasons to date, while Wesley has missed an average of 15 games per season during that same stretch. Houston won't even be looking to play Battier at shooting guard, so the fact that he doesn't play that position has no effect.


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## Cabron_James

IF Gay was traded for Rashard Lewis it would have been better even though Lewis is an expiring contract because he has openly said numerous times that he would like to finish his career in Houston so signing him back won't be a problem at all.


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## TManiAC

tone wone said:


> I disagree totally. This team is filled with guys who are over their heads. From Howard starting to Alston playing 38 minutes a game to Bowen being in the league. In Memphis Shane averaged *7.5fg* attempts a game. Only *2.04* attempts from 3 in 35 minutes. In comparision Wesley in '05 averaged *10.5fga* and *3.94* attempts from 3 in basically the same amount minutes. HERE Explain to me how he's gonna knock down more shots than Wesley did a season ago??? On a team whose 2nd best scorer comes off the bench he cant even put up 10 shots a game all the while playing 35mpg.
> 
> Once again Houston takes a player and asks him to more than he's capable of. He's a 6'8 David Wesley that cant play SG.



I agree that Houston is full of players who are in over their heads, but in Shane's defense, Wesley gets off more shots because Wesley is left open more often than Battier due to McGrady and Yao.

I agree that Battier is more or less a 6'9" DWes. On the flip side, I agree with Jworth that Battier is an excellent fit.

I still dont like the trade given that we could have gotten more for Rudy Gay and the fact that our athleticism, quickness, and talent took a quick and hard hit after trading Gay.

I dont think Shane Battier can have the impact that some think, I think he fits a role (hole) but doesnt necessarily make us much better. I think if we have a very successful season, its more because of a healthy team rather than as a result of what Battier can contribute. 

Let Battier take his threes, theyll still double Yao as hes much more of an offensive threat than is Battier.


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## ralaw

LA68 said:


> This team may have like a one or two year window !!
> 
> You seem to have forgotten: TMac has a bad back that will never go away regardless of what he says. He has ruined many seasons with that back. Just because his teams were not in contention he could sit out. He does not have many years left.


Your argument isn't consistent. In one hand you say TMac has a cronic back injury that causes him to miss a substantial amount of games every season, and on the other hand you say because of his back injury Houston doesn't have many years left. Well, it seems if his back injury is currently that much of an issue than Houston's "window of opportunity" has already past, as McGrady is can't be depended on across a season and a playoff, making the Gay pick even more valuable.



LA68 said:


> Swift is a perfect example. He was the NUMBER TWO PICK!!! What has he done in any season ??? He is too soft for the PF and has no skills for the 3. He is less talented than TChandler...at least Chandler can rebound. Swift is the biggest bust because he has gotten playing time and done nothing. Yao was out hurt last year and what did Swift do ???? Not a doggone thing !!!


Conversly, Shawn Marion was the 9th pick and he has become a star, so what is your point? I really don't understand the point behind this part of your post, as none of what you said has anything to do with Gay's situation.




LA68 said:


> How do you know Gay won't be the same way ?? He couldn't even get his team past George Mason !! He is passive and not ready for anything. Just like another Reece Gaines, all the talent but, just stands around.


How do you in know he wont become a star? Chris Paul lost in the second round of the 2005 NCAA tournament, yet he turned into the ROY. What happens in college has nothing to do with how a player will play in the NBA. What happened against George Mason has nothing to do with Gay and how he pans out in the NBA.



LA68 said:


> With Battier, you know what you are getting. Houston does not have the time to wait for this guy to wake up. They did the right thing and got rid of a bad contract. If it goes through, good deal :clap:


You are correct, with Battier you do know what your getting, but that doesn't help the team win a championship. As I have been saying, Battier is the type of player you bring in when you are on the brink of a championship and this team isn't there.


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## TManiAC

ralaw said:


> You are correct, with Battier you do know what your getting, but that doesn't help the team win a championship. As I have been saying, Battier is the type of player you bring in when you are on the brink of a championship and this team isn't there.


Yup, agreed.

I'll put money down on Mike James making more of an impact than Shane Battier. I wouldnt have traded Rudy Gay for Mike James.


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## Hakeem

Wesley isn't in Battier's league. He can't rebound at all and is possibly the worst guard in the NBA at finishing around the rim. His PER of less than 10 is probably the lowest of any starter in the league excluding Bruce Bowen. Battier's PER is close to 15, meaning that statistically, he's an average offensive player. Players with a similar PER last season were Tayshaun Prince, Ben Gordon and Derek Fisher. It doesn't tell you everything -- for example, Battier can't really create for himself -- but it's a fairly good indicator of offensive ability, especially when comparing players from the same season.

And defensively, Battier is light years ahead of Wesley. 

When you have two top 10 players, you don't need a third guy who can create his own shot. There are only so many possessions to go around. All you need is a bunch of shooters who can defend. We don't have that yet, but even though it was a foolish trade, Battier is a big step in the right direction.


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## TManiAC

Hakeem said:


> Wesley isn't in Battier's league. He can't rebound at all and is possibly the worst guard in the NBA at finishing around the rim. His PER of less than 10 is probably the lowest of any starter in the league excluding Bruce Bowen. Battier's PER is close to 15, meaning that statistically, he's an average offensive player. Players with a similar PER last season were Tayshaun Prince, Ben Gordon and Derek Fisher. It doesn't tell you everything -- for example, Battier can't really create for himself -- but it's a fairly good indicator of offensive ability, especially when comparing players from the same season.
> 
> And defensively, Battier is light years ahead of Wesley.
> 
> When you have two top 10 players, you don't need a third guy who can create his own shot. There are only so many possessions to go around. All you need is a bunch of shooters who can defend. We don't have that yet, but even though it was a foolish trade, Battier is a big step in the right direction.


My basis for the comparison:

Wesley - undersized SG, good defender, can catch and shoot, can pass to a degree, heady, blue-collar work ethic, average athleticism and speed, stronger than height suggests.

Battier - undersized PF, good defender, can catch and shoot, can pass to a degree, heady, blue-collar work ethic, average athleticism and speed, stronger than heigh suggests.

Battier's role with the Rockets would be similar (at the PF position) to what was expected of Wesley (at the SG position).

Theyre obviously different players, but their roles and talents are similar at their respective positions.


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## lingi1206

this comparison just doesn;t make me feel any better


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## Minstrel

Hakeem said:


> Wesley isn't in Battier's league. He can't rebound at all and is possibly the worst guard in the NBA at finishing around the rim. His PER of less than 10 is probably the lowest of any starter in the league excluding Bruce Bowen. Battier's PER is close to 15, meaning that statistically, he's an average offensive player. Players with a similar PER last season were Tayshaun Prince, Ben Gordon and Derek Fisher. It doesn't tell you everything -- for example, Battier can't really create for himself -- but it's a fairly good indicator of offensive ability, especially when comparing players from the same season.
> 
> And defensively, Battier is light years ahead of Wesley.


I think people mean to compare Battier to a prime David Wesley, not the current Wesley. At his prime, Wesley was a solid 15-18.5 PER player, with very good defense. I think calling Battier a "6'8'' David Wesley" is very appropriate if one means a prime Wesley.

It's the first comparison that occurred to me, in the wake of the deal. A bigger, prime David Wesley.


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## Brian.

Apparently I am in the minority but I believe it was a fine trade for Houston. As long as you guys sign Mike James I think you will have plenty of offensive power. Sure Gay might be better down the road but with Yao and Tmac in their primes now, I would hate to wait a few years for this guy to devolop and have him not fit in with the team or not be that good. Shane is the prefect compliementary player. He knows his role and is a smart player. He plays D and can do some things on offense. Could they have gotten better value for the pick? I am convinced they could have, but its more important IMO after you have your superstars in place to surround them with players that compliment them best and not necessarly just the best players.


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## Hakeem

Minstrel said:


> I think people mean to compare Battier to a prime David Wesley, not the current Wesley. At his prime, Wesley was a solid 15-18.5 PER player, with very good defense. I think calling Battier a "6'8'' David Wesley" is very appropriate if one means a prime Wesley.
> 
> It's the first comparison that occurred to me, in the wake of the deal. A bigger, prime David Wesley.


Prime David Wesley is a valid comparison, skills-wise and in terms of production. I was responding to whoever said the Rockets haven't got any better, using Wesley's numbers from last season to compare him to Battier.


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