# Dealing with Charlotte...



## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

Ok I have been analyzing the potential of trading with Charlotte. 

Charlottes says that 5 and 13 is too much to give up for #3 alone, and that they want a veteran. In order to send a player with no return the player sent would need to be a player that makes less than about $4 mill or they would have to send filler. THis is assuming the deal is made prior to July 1.

I think an obvious young veteran for Portland to dangle in front of Charlotte is Darius Miles, but Charlotte would need to send back around 2 mil or so in return contract......Problem is there are only 4 players on their roster that are eligible to be traded

Emeka Okafor
Jason Hart
Primo Brezec 
Melvin Ely

Melvin IMO is a bit redundant with Primo and Emeka both playing the same positions, and doing well and Melvins contract fits perfectly in the above scenario. 

Now assuming we weere able to land #5, #13 and Melvin Ely from Charlotte, the need for our 2nd rounder (35) would be elimintaed IMO as we would already be adding 3 young players (and Monia) to our already young roster, plus Charlotte doesn't have a 2nd rounder this year.

So reading between the lines and crunching the numbers leads me to believe that a deal that would be most feasible would be something like this....

#3
#35
Darius Milss

to Charlotte for

#5
#13
Melvin Ely

Charlotte then has a young core to build on of
Chris Paul, Darius Miles, Emeka Okafor and Primo Brezek. They' also should be able to resign Kareen Rush to p[lay the 2 spot, and can add a good role player at #35. Plus they will have a pretty good ammount of cap space to add role players over the summer.

How would this roster look next year?

PG Telfair/Jack
SG Monia/Green
SF Outlaw/Kyhrapa
PF Randolph/Ely
C Pryzbilla/Ratliff/Ha

Notice the absence of Patterson? Ruben will be gone, and the remaining roster slots will be filled by the return on Rubes.

Yes the team is very very young, but it would be a talented young team, and well balanced.


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## Reep (Jun 4, 2003)

Excellent suggestion Schilly. I really like this for both teams. Assuming Charlotte isn't high on Ely, I don't see how they couldn't like this. They get a very interesting starting SF with experience and potential with what I still think is a reasonable contract. Portland gets the picks they want and a backup PF.

I think this really does make both teams better. It would be interesting to get a Charlotte fan's perspective (if we could find one).

One change, I'm not sure Jack (Phil Jackson type PG) would be available at 13 (and I'm not sure I want him there), but you have have Diogu, Webster?, Ukic (if he stays in), Warrick to choose from. If McCants had great workouts, I wouldn't be opposed to taking him at 13, since I don't think Green will be ready for a couple years.


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## Trader Ed (Jun 17, 2002)

I think you can go up to $5.25 mil on them Schilly instaed of $4 mil

per our other discussion.. but maybe I am still missing something

Normal cap $43.67 mil. Charlotte is 0.67% of that or $29.31 mil
Charlotte actual expenditures according to Storytellers numbers = $23.9
leaving $5.25 mil under the cap now

Miles makes $6.095 mil until July 1... so a player coming back to us that makes over $800K will work, and still allow trading Darius with his BYC

Ely would be great... he makes $1.7 mil

Charlotte only increases their salary total NOW by $4.4 mil and still remains under their soft cap

Ed O and some others like Jason Hart too...

ok I am a bit dense today.. who is Jack??? as backup PG
Is he the return on trading Ruben?


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

Trader Bob said:


> I think you can go up to $5.25 mil on them Schilly instaed of $4 mil
> 
> per our other discussion.. but maybe I am still missing something
> 
> ...


Jarrett Jack who we would take with #13 

Jarrett Jack 

Or we could take Roko Leni Ukic


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## Reep (Jun 4, 2003)

Do you think we should take another PG prospect with the 13th or get a prospect at a different position (PF)? I am leaning toward getting veteran backup PG and another PF prospect, as there are several to be had around 13. 

Having said that, I think Ukic would be fun to have on the team and could certainly run time at the 2. He would be fun to watch, even though it would give us one of the lightest backcourts in the league.


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## HOWIE (Dec 30, 2002)

I like the idea of Ely, but I am also a supporter of Hart who would be just enough point guard to push Telfair, but not cause problems with who is the starter.

Trading Daruis Miles would also help Portland in their quest to lower that cap total. Are the Bobcat's going to re-sign Gerald Wallace and if so would they really want Miles?

Man, there is going to be a lot going on at our table during draft day!!!!! :clap:


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## Talkhard (May 13, 2003)

My god, that profile of Jarrett Jack is amazing. I've never seen the kid play, but I love him already. Let's hope the Blazers can pick him up.


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## bkbballer16 (Apr 28, 2005)

Looks like a really good trade.


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## Charlotte_______ (May 18, 2003)

I figure I should give my input on this. First I think the trade Schilly offered is relatively good. If you guys would rather take Jason Hart than Ely it would be even better, Ely was solid for us, either coming off the bench or starting in place of Emeka or Brezec when injured. Hart didn't show anything and we could afford to lose him. As for our picks, the only reason I would make this trade if I was Bernie Bickerstaff, was if Bogut or Marvin dropped to 3rd. The difference between Paul, Williams, and Felton are minimal IMO. Bogut or Williams are the two superstars of the draft, and our fanbase would increase greatly if we got either, and so would our team. But if not, Id say stay at 5th and 13th. We could still grab Felton at 5th, and someone like Wright, Webster, or Graham at 13th. A BIG problem I see with thsi trade is money. If we decided to just keep the 5th and 13th it would save us alot more money, not only would we have an increased salary for the 3rd pick but also, Darius Miles, and 35th( which we would not keep more than likely, considering we owe a couple second rounders). So I think when it comes down to it, this trade would have to be a draft day decision.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Talkhard said:


> My god, that profile of Jarrett Jack is amazing. I've never seen the kid play, but I love him already. Let's hope the Blazers can pick him up.


Good thing you aren't the GM...


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## Reep (Jun 4, 2003)

Charlotte_______ said:


> As for our picks, the only reason I would make this trade if I was Bernie Bickerstaff, was if Bogut or Marvin dropped to 3rd.


You may be right about the three PGs being close in value. However, I would be shocked if Portland traded the pick if Bogut or Marvin were available.

I think the odds of Portland trading down to 5 or 6 are pretty much done. Green will be available at either position:

Bogut
Williams
Paul
D.Williams
Spencer (Green)
Green

If Charlotte doesn't want to do the deal, then they better like Spencer just as much as Paul or D. Williams, because that is what they are going to get. I'm thinking that Paul and D. Williams are now very close in value. Spencer is no slouch, but he's not quite there. If you were Charlotte, would you want to settle for Spencer or go for your choice of the three. For a point guard, I don't see how they don't pony up the picks and take the best one.

How often do you get a chance to take the best point guard in a strong PG draft, and the only thing it would cost is the 13th pick? 

I predict that it will be 5+13 for 3 strait up, but it won't happen until draft day. Nash just needs to wait and be patient.


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## RedHot&Rolling (Jun 26, 2004)

SCHILLY FOR GENERAL MANAGER!!!!!!!!!!!!!


:banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:


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## J_Bird (Mar 18, 2005)

Reep said:


> Bogut
> Williams
> Paul
> D.Williams
> ...


Who is this Spencer character I have seen you refer to a couple of times?


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## Reep (Jun 4, 2003)

J_Bird said:


> Who is this Spencer character I have seen you refer to a couple of times?


Oh wow, it is time to go home.

You know Raymond Felton Spencer. :clown: 

I was thinking Felton, and somehow put in Spencer. I guess I'm showing my age now.


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## Paxil (Jan 1, 2003)

I am not sure Charlotte deals with Portland... they know we want Green, which means they get Paul or D.Williams. If I am them... I take that chance. They only reason they'd deal with us is if they really thought one was drop dead better than the other. Most likely they get D. Williams, and still have pick 13 to use on someone else.


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## Spoolie Gee (Feb 3, 2005)

Paxil said:


> I am not sure Charlotte deals with Portland... they know we want Green, which means they get Paul or D.Williams. If I am them... I take that chance. They only reason they'd deal with us is if they really thought one was drop dead better than the other. Most likely they get D. Williams, and still have pick 13 to use on someone else.


 
But N.O. will probably take D. Williams. Im not sure Charlotte wants to take Felton with the 5th pick in the draft.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

Paxil said:


> I am not sure Charlotte deals with Portland... they know we want Green, which means they get Paul or D.Williams. If I am them... I take that chance. They only reason they'd deal with us is if they really thought one was drop dead better than the other. Most likely they get D. Williams, and still have pick 13 to use on someone else.


not necessarily. Say Portland picks Paul. New Orleans can still (and probably will) pick D Williams.

thats where Charlotte goes "ooooh ****!"


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## Reep (Jun 4, 2003)

Paxil said:


> I am not sure Charlotte deals with Portland... they know we want Green, which means they get Paul or D.Williams. If I am them... I take that chance. They only reason they'd deal with us is if they really thought one was drop dead better than the other. Most likely they get D. Williams, and still have pick 13 to use on someone else.


This is a risk that Charlotte may take, but what if Portland trades with someone like Utah or Toronto? Then charlotte gets neither Paul nor D. Williams. They could take Green just to mess things up, or they could take Felton and live with him. 

As Ed has stated in the other thread, it comes down to how much Portland values Green over Webster. If Green is much higher, then they may not take the chance. 

I think Charlotte needs/wants Paul or D. Williams more than Portland needs Green. So, I think that the 5+13 trade will go down. Even if that doesn't happen, I can see some other deal between Charlotte and Portland because it just makes too much sense not to come to some kind of agreement. But it may come down to who blinks first.


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## Reep (Jun 4, 2003)

Hap said:


> not necessarily. Say Portland picks Paul. New Orleans can still (and probably will) pick D Williams.
> 
> thats where Charlotte goes "ooooh ****!"


If you are Charlotte and you get to #5 and Paul and D. Williams are gone, and all you had to do was give up the #13 to move up to get one, wouldn't that seem like a no brainer? Otherwise, you know that Utah and Toronto are right on your heals and they will come up with something to get #3.

That's why I think Nash needs to just hold on and wait. I think there are at least three teams interested in that pick, because it will be available. The offers will only get better.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

Reep said:


> If you are Charlotte and you get to #5 and Paul and D. Williams are gone, and all you had to do was give up the #13 to move up to get one, wouldn't that seem like a no brainer? Otherwise, you know that Utah and Toronto are right on your heals and they will come up with something to get #3.
> 
> That's why I think Nash needs to just hold on and wait. I think there are at least three teams interested in that pick, because it will be available. The offers will only get better.


Im not sure if you thought I disagree'd, or you were augmentating my post..

I too agree that the team might bluff it's way into a 2nd pick from Charlotte, and them taking a "bad" contract.


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## Reep (Jun 4, 2003)

Hap said:


> Im not sure if you thought I disagree'd, or you were augmentating my post..
> 
> I too agree that the team might bluff it's way into a 2nd pick from Charlotte, and them taking a "bad" contract.


I was agreeing/augmenting and really speaking to Paxil. If Nash could get the 13th pick and figure out how to dump a contract for a reserve from Charlotte, then I think Nash should get some real credit . . . and I'll make sure I never play Texas Hold'em with him.


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## Charlotte_______ (May 18, 2003)

Reep said:


> If you were Charlotte, would you want to settle for Spencer or go for your choice of the three. For a point guard, I don't see how they don't pony up the picks and take the best one.
> 
> How often do you get a chance to take the best point guard in a strong PG draft, and the only thing it would cost is the 13th pick?
> 
> I predict that it will be 5+13 for 3 strait up, but it won't happen until draft day. Nash just needs to wait and be patient.


Theres no telling who we like, I mean we could work out all three PG's and Felton stand out the most, so we wouldn't really be settling for Felton, he was our first option all along.

And as for the "best" PG, just because he was the better player in college basketball doesn't mean that will transfer the same to the NBA. If I had to choose right now, I would definetly take Felton over all of them. If UNC wasn't as stacked as they were and had a team like Wake Forest, IMHO I believe Felton would have out up better numbers than Paul. The only reason Felton wasn't stat wise the same as them, was because he didn't hold much of a role for the team other than distributing the ball, which he did very well. The 13th pick will prove to be very valuable to us. Either it be a SG or even a PF either will help us immensly. If at the draft we ended up with Felton and Warrick, I would be mighty pleased.


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## Utherhimo (Feb 20, 2005)

so if you like felton that mean two other teams like him too, if the bobcats want to pick the best the 3rd is the best to get thier man, the trade of #5 and #13 would be good but the miles trade #3 and #35 for the #5,#13 and ely/hart is a great trade for both. schilly email Nash this idea


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## Kmurph (May 7, 2003)

Too bad not ONE scout that I have read\heard rates Felton on even the same level as Chris Paul.....

I doubt Bickerstaff does either.....

This dissing of Paul, or downplaying his abilities has reached unbelievable levels...he is CLEARLY...CLEARLY the best PG in the draft....

He was ALL YEAR LONG...he was ALL LAST YEAR (When he would have been a top 5 pick..more than likely over both Livingston and Devin Harris)...Now he isn't as good as Deron Williams or Ray Felton.....bull****.....


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## Paxil (Jan 1, 2003)

I think picking someone we don't really want (Paul) and trying to force a trade is verrrry risky. It might work... but we might be stuck with Paul. Maybe that would be a good thing... I don't know... we could call Telfair the ant, and Paul redundant. :laugh:


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## Spoolie Gee (Feb 3, 2005)

Paxil said:


> I think picking someone we don't really want (Paul) and trying to force a trade is verrrry risky. It might work... but we might be stuck with Paul. Maybe that would be a good thing... I don't know... we could call Telfair the ant, and Paul redundant. :laugh:


 
We wont get stuck with Paul. Worse case scenario is we trade him straight up for Green because I don't think any of the 4 teams behind us would take Green over Paul.


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## Charlotte_______ (May 18, 2003)

Utherhimo said:


> so if you like felton that mean two other teams like him too, if the bobcats want to pick the best the 3rd is the best to get thier man, the trade of #5 and #13 would be good but the miles trade #3 and #35 for the #5,#13 and ely/hart is a great trade for both. schilly email Nash this idea


I really don't know where to start with this post, but i'll try. What makes you think that if the Bobcats like Felton, every other team will too? Maybe Felton does so much better in his workout that the Bobcats would rather have him than Paul. For Charlotte, its likely not going to be the best player, considerng we need young role players and are trying to save money


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## Charlotte_______ (May 18, 2003)

Kmurph said:


> Too bad not ONE scout that I have read\heard rates Felton on even the same level as Chris Paul.....
> 
> I doubt Bickerstaff does either.....
> 
> ...


I just think its pointless to move up two spots to give up another lottery slection.

This is why its my opinion. They might not be, but I think so.

ok? I believe Bickerstaff does like Felton more than Paul.......where exactly were you going with this?

I am in no way dissing him, and it really isnt downplaying considerng its my opinion that Felton is better than Paul. In my eyes he is better, you can't just go wow your wrong, because its my opinion. Don;t you see what is happening we both have different opinions as far as players rank, and yet we both are trying to prove each other wrong or expose one another. Its just opinion, get used to it.


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## Trader Ed (Jun 17, 2002)

Well I am just a fan, but I would think if we took Paul and our #35 and then traded those to Charlotte for the #5, and an unprotected #1 pick next year, or the #13 this year it would be good.

a 2 for 1 pick swap is good for both. They get what they want in a strong PG and we will get Green or who ever is on Nash's radar, plus a bonus player due to the luck of the ping pong ball.

We certainly are not going to trade the #3 for #5 with no compensation at all. We got lucky, and we deserve something for it.

Now, if they want to take Darius or Ruben or DA or Theo, then it opens up more discussions such as Schilly's very good scenario

All we have to do is just draft who we want period.. but there is a chance to get more.


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## kaydow (Apr 6, 2004)

Charlotte_______ said:


> I am in no way dissing him, and it really isnt downplaying considerng its my opinion that Felton is better than Paul. In my eyes he is better, you can't just go wow your wrong, because its my opinion. Don;t you see what is happening we both have different opinions as far as players rank, and yet we both are trying to prove each other wrong or expose one another. Its just opinion, get used to it.



If there is one position where intangables, feel for the game, basketball IQ, leadership, etc. stands out . . . it's the PG position. While Paul is more flashy and athletic than Felton, there probably isn't a player with "intangables" than Felton in the draft. As you pointed out Charlotte, choosing one over the other is a matter of opinion. Paul is a freak, but there is no way NC wins the tourny w/o Felton. He does whatever it takes to win. He has an uncanny ability to distribute (not shoot) all night, then be able to step up and knock down shots when called upon. If I had to choose, I'd . . . flip a coin.


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## Leroy131 (Mar 11, 2004)

Maybe I'm crazy, but I've never been that enamored with Felton. Don't get me wrong - I think he will be a very solid NBA point guard. But if the Blazers had a need at the PG position, I'd take Paul without thinking twice. Felton has some wheels and is a great passer, but Paul has a more complete offensive game to go along with his great vision and court sense.


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## Spoolie Gee (Feb 3, 2005)

If Charlotte wants Felton over Paul then they wouldnt be playing so many head games with Portland. Bickerstaff wouldnt threaten to take the player Portland wants unless the PG their targeting will be gone by #5 and so it has to be Paul or D. Williams.


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## Leroy131 (Mar 11, 2004)

Felton may have some intangible qualities, but here is something tangible: he turned the ball over 3.6 times per game (1.9 AST/TO) last season which was consistent with his career numbers. Contrast that with Paul at 2.8 (2.4/1 AST/TO) and Deron Williams (same numbers), and his inferior scoring ability should put him firmly in 3rd. I could easily see the Jazz passing on him because he could struggle (at least initially) running a half-court offense.

While I'm on the subject, Jack turned the ball over 3.4 times per game (an ugly 1.3 AST/TO). Teams may love his size at the position, but he shouldn't be a consideration in the lottery.

I agree that it is highly unlikely Charlotte doesn't have a preference between the 3 guards. Otherwise I don't see the point in all the posturing.


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## Trader Ed (Jun 17, 2002)

Felton is a Bickerstaff smokescreen IMHO

Portland needs to take the best available player whom they determine... its been a pretty good philosphy over the years.. acquiring commoditites despite team need

If they can turn around and make a deal with that player and get more benefit or a bonus player then they need to do it


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## kaydow (Apr 6, 2004)

Leroy131 said:


> Maybe I'm crazy, but I've never been that enamored with Felton. Don't get me wrong - I think he will be a very solid NBA point guard. But if the Blazers had a need at the PG position, I'd take Paul without thinking twice. Felton has some wheels and is a great passer, but Paul has a more complete offensive game to go along with his great vision and court sense.


I felt that way about Felton too up until the tourny. Even his supporters have to admit that he doesn't have the upside of Paul. Felton is a "safe" pick in that you know he won't be a bust. He'll probably never be an all-star either, but hey, neither will Chauncy Billips. I guess the thing is, fans don't want their teams making "safe" picks in the lottery. I'll say this though . . . I like Sebastian Telfair (a lot) but I'd trade him for Felton. I just think Felton helps you win games, and he's a leader. He won't cry about minutes, or number of shots he gets. He won't have run-ins with his coaches or teamates. He's a throwback. I'd love to have him.


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## Leroy131 (Mar 11, 2004)

That's true - he did have a good tournament and that's what most people remember. Maybe he turned a corner, or maybe he just had a nice stretch of games at a good time. I'm thinking he goes #7 to Toronto at this point.


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## Kmurph (May 7, 2003)

Answer me one question then.....

Why is Bickerstaff pushing so hard for the #3 pick?

You know Felton isn't going to go #3....and you know Felton isn't going to #4 either....He will be there when CHA picks @ #5.....

So why then is Bernie so actively pushing...prodding and threatening to take POR player if they don't make a deal for #3?

I mean come on...this is laughable....

It may be YOUR opinion that they are equal....but it isn't most scouts opinion and it certainly isn't Bickerstaff's....actions speak louder than words, and his actiond have spoken volumes over whom he prefers....

and I wouldn't even CONSIDER trading Telfair for Felton....Are you kidding me? 

One decent tournament does not a great PG make....He isn't that good...


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## Charlotte_______ (May 18, 2003)

Because maybe just maybe Marvin Williams or Bogut will fall to 3rd? If Paul is indeed as good as you say he is, ATL should take him.

Why do keep saying Bernie will do thsi and Bernie will do that? Its as if you personally know him.


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## Spoolie Gee (Feb 3, 2005)

Charlotte_______ said:


> Because maybe just maybe Marvin Williams or Bogut will fall to 3rd? If Paul is indeed as good as you say he is, ATL should take him.
> 
> Why do keep saying Bernie will do thsi and Bernie will do that? Its as if you personally know him.


 
Dude, if Williams or Bogut fall to us at #3 we're takin them and not looking back. I seriously doubt Bickerstaff would refuse to give up #5 and 13 for them either. I just cant believe he's playing these mind games with Nash just incase Williams or Bogut fall to us because he knows we wouldnt trade one of those guys for Green.


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## Kmurph (May 7, 2003)

I don't know Bernie at all, but if you can't read his intentions from his baltant actions so far...well...there isn't much more to say.....

Spoolie Gee's post was right on....

IF Williams or Bogut are there POR will be drafting them, that is guaranteed...

This is about Chris Paul....getting the rights to draft the top PG in this draft...

and if Bernie liked Felton as uch as you do, then we wouldn't even be specualting about this b\c Bernie wouldn't be actively campaigning for the pick as he is now...


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## Charlotte_______ (May 18, 2003)

Kmurph said:


> I don't know Bernie at all, but if you can't read his intentions from his baltant actions so far...well...there isn't much more to say.....
> 
> Spoolie Gee's post was right on....
> 
> ...


I think if anything Bernie would make the 5th and 13th for 3rd before the draft, therefore if one of them does happen to slip. 

I find it very very hard to believe that Chris Paul is Bernies man, when he hasn't even worked out for us.

Hes campainging because he thinks one of Bogut or Williams will fall.


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## Kmurph (May 7, 2003)

So IYO, this all about speculating that Williams or Bogut will fall, and then getting POR to deal Marvin or Bogut for the #5 and a TOR pick lotto locked until 2009?

Do you really think Nash just fell off the turnip truck?

And if Bernie wants Marvin as badly as he does, then why not skip POR entirely and just deal with ATL? Why keep mentioning POR?

Not to mention if Bickerstaff really thinks POR would trade Bogut or Marvin for what he is offering, let alone the #5 & #13, he ought to have his head examined....

If Marvin or Bogut fall...they will be a Blazer next year...not a Bobcat...


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## Charlotte_______ (May 18, 2003)

Kmurph said:


> So IYO, this all about speculating that Williams or Bogut will fall, and then getting POR to deal Marvin or Bogut for the #5 and a TOR pick lotto locked until 2009?
> 
> Do you really think Nash just fell off the turnip truck?
> 
> ...



Im not sure where you got the Toronto pick from, I know we have theirs, but I never brought that up. And NO I would not expect that to happen, the original trade Schilly brought up involving Miles would likely go down.

Sorry your gonna have to explain what "fell off the turnip truck" means, seeing as I have no ****ing clue what your talking about.

We are talking to ATL about a possible deal, Bickerstaff has made calls to the team in search of the 2nd pick. Why would you limit to discussing deals with one team? Bernie is trying to get as many offers as he can and explore what would be best for the team. If he can do that then he will try to milk you guys for all you are worth. He is waiting for someone to give in so the deal will most likely benefit Charlotte's squad.

I honestly doubt Portland would make that deal, which is why we would mos tlikely take on a contract. I would take Derek Anderson seeing as how we desperately need a SG.

Only time will tell who will end up where, were gonna have to wait and see.


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## cpt.napalm (Feb 23, 2005)

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/basketball/nba/06/17/paul.ap/index.html


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## Spoolie Gee (Feb 3, 2005)

Charlotte_______ I think you're burrying your head in the sand on this.


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

What if the Guy Charlotte really wants is Deron Williams?Supposedly, New Orelans has already Promised to take him at #4. IF that were the case, there is a chance that Portland could go ahead and take Green @ #3, Deron at #4 and Chris Paul slips to 5, but if Charlotte really wants Deron, they would need to move up to #3 to get him before NO does.

That would explain the Posturing by Bickerstaff a little more than if he were targetting Paul or Felton.


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## Kmurph (May 7, 2003)

> Im not sure where you got the Toronto pick from, I know we have theirs, but I never brought that up.


Um...It was Bickerstaff who mentioned the TOR pick as part of a proposed deal, like it is even remotely attractive though...I mean lottery protected until 2009? Yeah, that is REEEAAAL appealing.



> Sorry your gonna have to explain what "fell off the turnip truck" means, seeing as I have no ****ing clue what your talking about.


What, was he born yesterday?

Is he a sandwich short of a picnic?

Do you think his elevator doesn't make it to the highest floor?

Or bluntly stated, Do you think he is an idiot? 

b\c if Nash traded Marvin or Bogut for the #5 and that ridiculously overly protected TOR pick...he most assuredly would be....



> Why would you limit to discussing deals with one team?


Good question & it should make you wonder why is Bernie focusing so much time on POR #3 pick...



> If he can do that then he will try to milk you guys for all you are worth. He is waiting for someone to give in so the deal will most likely benefit Charlotte's squad.


Like the guy\team with the 5th pick should demand concessions from the team with the #3 pick so they can move up...There is a messed up concept...Props to him...I guess...for attempting to do so...It sure is ballsy...I'll give him that, but it isn't too realistic and it certainly isn't going to get Bernie anywhere closer to an actual deal for the 3rd pick, which if Bernie wants Paul, his ludicrous comments & offers are counterproductive to actually getting him...

and if you think POR is going to trade Marvin to CHA so they could unload DA or Miles (like he needs unloading? what a joke that is) you are kidding yourself....POR doesn't need to unload those guys that badly...IF Bernie is thinking like this then he is the one who fell off the turnip truck...


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

If I'm Charlotte I stay at 5 and 13.

You guys obviously do not want Paul or Deron. I force you to stay and pick Green or trade WAYYY down which is less likely. If you stay, I get my top 2 point and get to keep 13. If you trade it, Paul goes 3, Deron 4 I would take Green and you miss out.

By not wanting to take Paul, you have kind of screwed yourselves in terms of getting better value for the pick. And if I'm Bernie I stay the hell away from Miles.


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## Spoolie Gee (Feb 3, 2005)

blowuptheraptors said:


> If I'm Charlotte I stay at 5 and 13.
> 
> You guys obviously do not want Paul or Deron. I force you to stay and pick Green or trade WAYYY down which is less likely. If you stay, I get my top 2 point and get to keep 13. If you trade it, Paul goes 3, Deron 4 I would take Green and you miss out.
> 
> By not wanting to take Paul, you have kind of screwed yourselves in terms of getting better value for the pick. And if I'm Bernie I stay the hell away from Miles.


 
Why would we trade WAYYY down when Utah and Toronto would both be interested in Paul or D. Williams. Portland holds all the leverage in this situation. Also, we arnt married to Green. Nash might want Webster more.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

Spoolie Gee said:


> Why would we trade WAYYY down when Utah and Toronto would both be interested in Paul or D. Williams. Portland holds all the leverage in this situation. Also, we arnt married to Green. Nash might want Webster more.


Spot-on, SG.

Ed O.


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## Reep (Jun 4, 2003)

blowuptheraptors said:


> If I'm Charlotte I stay at 5 and 13.
> 
> You guys obviously do not want Paul or Deron. I force you to stay and pick Green or trade WAYYY down which is less likely. If you stay, I get my top 2 point and get to keep 13. If you trade it, Paul goes 3, Deron 4 I would take Green and you miss out.
> 
> By not wanting to take Paul, you have kind of screwed yourselves in terms of getting better value for the pick. And if I'm Bernie I stay the hell away from Miles.


You will like Felton a lot, he is a good PG, and almost as good as Paul and D. Williams. Shoot, Felton is almost as tall as Paul. :biggrin:


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## Misfit (May 4, 2005)

Charlotte should keep their #5 take Granger or Green and use their #13 to trade down and get Felton, cuz I don't see Felton getting past the Lakers.


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## Charlotte_______ (May 18, 2003)

Do you mean trade up from the 13th, cause Lakers have the tenth


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## CanJohno (Feb 11, 2005)

A deal I put together on another 'site, as a "compromise" between the two teams, was:

D.A.
#3

for

Hart
Ely
#5

And, most of the Charlotte fans that responded, liked this deal. As long as we can get Green at #5, I'd be ALL for this deal.


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## Sambonius (May 21, 2003)

CanJohno said:


> A deal I put together on another 'site, as a "compromise" between the two teams, was:
> 
> D.A.
> #3
> ...


The deal is pretty good if done after we drafted Paul and after Charlotte drafted Green. Hart can used as a useful backup and so can Ely. Plus we get the guy with the most superstar potential in the draft. I wouldn't complain at all.


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## CanJohno (Feb 11, 2005)

Sambonius said:


> The deal is pretty good if done after we drafted Paul and after Charlotte drafted Green. Hart can used as a useful backup and so can Ely. Plus we get the guy with the most superstar potential in the draft. I wouldn't complain at all.


:clap:


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## JFizzleRaider (Nov 1, 2004)

I wouldnt mind that deal that much either, we get the backup point to push telfair that could be a serviceable backup, in Ely we get our backup PF to Randolph, We still get Green in the draft, and we also unload DA's contract and whiny attitude


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## Misfit (May 4, 2005)

Charlotte_______ said:


> Do you mean trade up from the 13th, cause Lakers have the tenth


Yeah up

They should definitely wait and see who is available at 13 before they decide to deal their #5


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## Trader Ed (Jun 17, 2002)

CanJohno said:


> A deal I put together on another 'site, as a "compromise" between the two teams, was:
> 
> D.A.
> #3
> ...


That is a draft day deal I hope comes to fruition. It has been a popular variation to run scenarios with. It works good for both teams I think. We exchange and rebalance the roster a bit too. I still would love to get the #13 as well. This has been discussed a lot. They get Paul... Narlins gets Deron Williams... we get Green or Webster... 

another pick would be nice... but we would still be good with this.


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## MentalPowerHouse (Oct 9, 2003)

Spoolie Gee said:


> Why would we trade WAYYY down when Utah and Toronto would both be interested in Paul or D. Williams. Portland holds all the leverage in this situation. Also, we arnt married to Green. Nash might want Webster more.


You guys are all assuming that its a PG or nothing situation for Charlette. Okafar is their only player for the future currently. No one else on the team looks like an important piece to their future, just fillers for now. So who is to say that they don't pick Green at #5 if Paul nor Deron drops to them? Picking for need is extremely stupid for them, they need players everywhere but PF so pick the best player available.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

MentalPowerHouse said:


> You guys are all assuming that its a PG or nothing situation for Charlette. Okafar is their only player for the future currently. No one else on the team looks like an important piece to their future, just fillers for now.


I disagree. Primoz Brezec is only 25 and had a very good year for a first-year starter. Gerald Wallace is still only 22 and he put up double digit points last year with good peripheral stats (5.5 rebounds, 1.67 steals, 1.3 blocks) in under 31 minutes a game.

There's certainly nothing set in stone about either of those guys, but I would be shocked if they're just "fillers" for Charlotte.

Ed O.


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## MentalPowerHouse (Oct 9, 2003)

Ed O said:


> I disagree. Primoz Brezec is only 25 and had a very good year for a first-year starter. Gerald Wallace is still only 22 and he put up double digit points last year with good peripheral stats (5.5 rebounds, 1.67 steals, 1.3 blocks) in under 31 minutes a game.
> 
> There's certainly nothing set in stone about either of those guys, but I would be shocked if they're just "fillers" for Charlotte.
> 
> Ed O.


With those 2 as starters I don't see them become much of a contender, I am not saying they are brutal but you don't pass on the best player available because you have them.


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## Bwatcher (Dec 31, 2002)

However, there is some argument that Green is the 5th best player available. Some think that Green moved up because Portland got the 3rd pick, and with Telfair already on the Blazers, it was logical to "place" Green at the 3rd pick. Before the ping pong balls, Green, I believe, was listed at about 7th.


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## Spoolie Gee (Feb 3, 2005)

MentalPowerHouse said:


> You guys are all assuming that its a PG or nothing situation for Charlette. Okafar is their only player for the future currently. No one else on the team looks like an important piece to their future, just fillers for now. So who is to say that they don't pick Green at #5 if Paul nor Deron drops to them? Picking for need is extremely stupid for them, they need players everywhere but PF so pick the best player available.


 
Bernie Bickerstaff says...



> The key is, what happens if someone else moves to three?" said Bickerstaff, who also said he believes UNC guard Raymond Felton deserves top-tier consideration. "I think three is the key. I don't know whether we'll own it or somebody else."


http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/story/2513332p-8917323c.html

Im not assuming anything. Several times when Bickerstaff has been asked about the draft he talks about the #3 pick being the key. It's not like were trying to read tea leafs to figure out what Bickerstaff wants to do.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

MentalPowerHouse said:


> With those 2 as starters I don't see them become much of a contender, I am not saying they are brutal but you don't pass on the best player available because you have them.


Best player available is certainly a good idea. If they think Green is the best player, they might take him. I think that it's clear that the Bobcats want a PG, though.

Ed O.


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## The Glyde 22 (Jun 15, 2005)

I like this trade idea, it works well for both sides. The only thing I would do different is draft Sean May at #13. I really think people are sleeping on him. May will be alot like Elton Brand once he gets going, and I would most defenintly like to have a Brand type player as a Blazer!


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