# Update: Telfair to Boston for #7 pick and Dikau



## RickRoss

http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?name=katz_andy

Man, I hope this trade goes down, it would be a great deal. We would have picks #4 and #7, and get two stud players in this draft while clearing the log jam at pg and making Jack the starter.


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## ThePrideOfClyde

If there is any truth to this rumor, then you can pretty much bet on the Blazers taking Roy with the #4. I ****in' guarantee it.

EDIT: Oh, and this would be the best trade scenario for the Blazers in this situation. The situation of them wanting Roy.


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## OntheRocks

Could anyone just copy it onto the board? I'd really love to read it!


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## Reep

For those without Insider, there is a quote on Truehoop.com 

I'm actually surprised by this. I think it would make the team extremely interesting next year. Adding a new SF prospect and a solid guard prospect (or other) would certainly change the look of the team for next year. 

I have stock options in my company. When the price goes up high based on some speculation, I sell before it goes back down. If I held the options indefinately, they may be worth more down the road. However, they may not be worth more. In the mean time I take my profit and reinvest into something else that I can buy low, sell high. I don't see this potential trade as much different than that. I'm just not sure I understand Boston's angle. Maybe they just don't ever want to see Telfair in NY.


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## Fork

ThePrideOfClyde said:


> If there is any truth to this rumor, then you can pretty much bet on the Blazers taking Roy with the #4. I ****in' guarantee it.
> 
> EDIT: Oh, and this would be the best trade scenario for the Blazers in this situation. The situation of them wanting Roy.


I don't think that would change anything, really. I think Portland still takes Morrison with the #4 pick and Aldridge, whom I believe will actually slide to the 7th pick.


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## Fork

OntheRocks said:


> Could anyone just copy it onto the board? I'd really love to read it!


http://www.basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?t=282845


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## Reep

How about guesses as to who the picks would be.

#4: Morrison/Gay
#7: Roy(not likely available)/Brewer/Foye

#4: Roy
#7: Sh. Williams/Thomas (or other falling member of the big six)


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## Fork

More info, this from Chad Ford...

My colleague Andy Katz mentioned in his article on the workout that the Celtics were having trade discussions with several teams, including the Blazers.

Multiple sources told me last night that those talks are real. The Blazers and Celtics have discussed a trade that would send Sebastian Telfair to Boston for Dan Dickau and the No. 7 pick.

The Blazers asked for Dickau's medical records to see how he's healing from his Achilles' tendon injury. The thinking as of late last night was that if Dickau checks out medically, the Blazers seriously would consider pulling the trigger on the deal. If he doesn't, they might come back and ask for more compensation.

If the Telfair-to-the-Celtics deal happens, the Blazers would look at Brandon Roy, Rudy Gay and Foye as possibilities for pick No. 7. One of those players is likely to still be there.

I'm sure the Celtics are involved in other trade talks as well. Boston GM Danny Ainge told me Monday afternoon that there were multiple conversations going on. While Ainge did not get into specifics, it's clear that the Orlando Magic, the New Orleans/Oklahoma City Hornets, the Phoenix Suns and the New Jersey Nets are all trying to move up.


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## yakbladder

Not quite sure how this wouldn't just make the PG situation worse...

Blake, Jack, Dickau, and possibly Roy with #7?

I'd rather hold one more year with these PGs.


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## BBert

The first 6 picks are entirely up in the air, still. This is exciting stuff.

But if he's still available, I still think the Blazers would take Aldridge at no. 4. Then they only do the Telfair deal if who they want among Gay or Roy or Foye (as stated in that article) or Morrison is left at no. 7.


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## ThePrideOfClyde

Fork said:


> I don't think that would change anything, really. I think Portland still takes Morrison with the #4 pick and Aldridge, whom I believe will actually slide to the 7th pick.


We'll see. But, if that is the case, then I will be as happy as can possibly be. I hope you're right.


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## Buck Williams

As much as I like Sebass sign me up for that 1


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## Ed O

Once I got over the initial shock that Portland might actually trade Telfair, the most surprising thing to me is that Dickau's health would seriously matter one iota.

I mean, really. We'd be giving up a guy that appeared to be our best (or maybe second-best) prospect for a lottery pick, and we're worried about whether Dan freakin' Dickau is healthy?

It's strange.

Since it's looking like Shelden Williams AND Foye might slip into the top 6 at this point, that would mean at #7 that Portland might have a chance at 2 of the remaining "big 6" at #7... having already taken one at #4. Roy or Gay at #7 would be pretty nice, especially if we took Aldridge at #4. Or Thomas at #7 after taking Morrison at #4 would work, too...

Very interesting.

Ed O.


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## Trader Ed

Many many things would have to happen for this to go down... FIRST of all the way the draft picks go down

Then there is the confidence in the Blazer brass that Jack and Blake can run the team in the long run at PG. Even more so, taht Jack's ankles will heal good enough and allow him the mobility to be effective at PG

1 TOR = Bargnani
2 CHI = Thomas (maybe even to trade to Phoneix... or passing on Aldridge as a Center prospect in favor of strength at PF)
3 CHA = Brandon Roy or Ronnie Brewer
4 POR = Aldridge to take Joels place at Center
5 ATL = Randy Foye to be traded to Houston for the #8 and Luther Head
6 MIN = Morrison or Gay (Either one works for them or us)
7 POR = Morrison or Gay by trading with Boston. Boston trades the pick and Dickau for Telfair


It would have to go perfectly for it to happen, some surpise picks by Chicago and Charlotte help it along).... getting Aldridge and (Gay or Morrison for Telfair) may be the way the Blazers want.



PG Jack, Blake, Dickau
SG Webster, Dixon, (Blake)
SF Morrison or Gay, Khryapa, Outlaw
PF Randolph, Skinner
C Aldridge, Joel?, Theo, Ha

+ #30 and #31 

+ Miles????

It could be interesting

I would prefer Darius + Dixon for the #7.. but it will not happen


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## talman

Brewer going 3rd? That's the first that I've heard of that. Seems kinda high...


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## Trader Ed

I really do not want Dickau back :banghead:


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## Trader Ed

talman said:


> Brewer going 3rd? That's the first that I've heard of that. Seems kinda high...


Ok .. maybe Brandon Roy or Brewer.. (or my sleeper pick.. Redick  )

Charlotte needs guards IMHO


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## Blazer Freak

The only way I'd like the deal, SHOCKING ENOUGH. Is if we get Foye. Aldridge and Foye would be a good enough for me. Foye's gonna be special.


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## Fork

Ed O said:


> Once I got over the initial shock that Portland might actually trade Telfair, the most surprising thing to me is that Dickau's health would seriously matter one iota.
> 
> I mean, really. We'd be giving up a guy that appeared to be our best (or maybe second-best) prospect for a lottery pick, and we're worried about whether Dan freakin' Dickau is healthy?
> 
> It's strange.
> 
> Ed O.


That's the first thing I thought of as well. But if we want a cheap 3rd string PG with 2 more guaranteed years on his contract, I can see why we'd want to make sure we aren't throwing money into the wind.


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## Reep

Trader Bob said:


> 1 TOR = Bargnani
> 2 CHI = Thomas (maybe even to trade to Phoneix... or passing on Aldridge as a Center prospect in favor of strength at PF)
> 3 CHA = Ronnie Brewer
> 4 POR = Aldridge to take Joels place at Center
> 5 ATL = Randy Foye to be traded to Houston for the #8 and Luther Head
> 6 MIN = Morrison or Gay (Either one works for them or us)
> 7 POR = Morrison or Gay by trading with Boston. Boston trades the pick and Dickau for Telfair


I doubt that both Morrison and Gay escape the top 5. Don't forget Roy too. 

I still think:

1) Bargnani
2) Aldridge
3) Gay
4) Morrison
5) Sh. Williams (trade with Houston that make so much sense is now dead?)
6) Roy (Could be Foye, but Roy is a better fit)
7) Thomas/Brewer


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## Trader Ed

Reep said:


> I doubt that both Morrison and Gay escape the top 5. Don't forget Roy too.
> 
> I still think:
> 
> 1) Bargnani
> 2) Aldridge
> 3) Gay
> 4) Morrison
> 5) Sh. Williams (trade with Houston that make so much sense is now dead?)
> 6) Roy (Could be Foye, but Roy is a better fit)
> 7) Thomas/Brewer


I am not discounting that at all... I am just saying that in order for Portland to do this deal with Boston.. a whole lot of things haveto go perfectly for them to do it.... a surpirse drat order would be one of them.

i can nto see us doing the trade with Boston if the draft unfolds the way you have it. JOEL WILL leave the Blazers (more than likely), and we need a talented big man. I am not so sure you trade Telfair for Thomas or Brewer with Morrison on board.

I think you do if you got Aldridge or Bargnnai on board...


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## Ed O

I tend to agree with TB that getting two swing men at #'s 4 and 7 doesn't make a ton of sense... at least not as much as adding a big man and a swing man. With that being said, if the team REALLY likes Morrison and Roy, they're a couple guys that would be plugged right into our rotation and be pretty good long-range prospects.

On the third hand, I don't know if it makes sense to trade Telfair to clear up a bit of a logjam at the 1 to simply make one at another position (with Webster/Morrison/Roy at the swing spots).

Thomas at #7 would be interesting to me, irrespective of who we drafted at #4. I know a lot of people here aren't big fans, but if he slipped that far he'd be a heck of a value gamble.

Ed O.


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## Anonymous Gambler

I make this trade in a second! I really don't care what condition Dikau is in- I would probably cut him anyways! The #7 pick is great, I like everyone potentially there better than Telfair, but I've always been a Jack fan.

The way I see it going down

#4- Barganini or Aldridge
#7- Brandon Roy or Tyrus Thomas

Our lineup is then potentially:

Jack
Webster
Tyrus Thomas
Randolph
Aldridge

Not too shabby, should be worth 4 more wins or so!!!!


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## ProudBFan

If this trade happens, my prediction is that the Blazers take Morrison @ #4, then Roy @ #7. No way is Morrison available to the Blazers @ #7.

PBF


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## Trader Ed

Ed O said:


> I tend to agree with TB
> 
> Ed O.



:jawdrop:

I am writing this down on my calendar.... :banana:

:rofl:


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## ThePrideOfClyde

If worse comes to worse, then there are always other PG prospects in upcoming drafts. This could very well prove to be disasterous, but on the other hand, it could turn out nicely. If we do this trade and it ends up backfiring on us, resulting in another horrible season, and we still don't get the #1 pick next year (Greg Oden) then I think our best move would be to draft Javaris Crittendon('07). He is a superstar just waiting to happen, and is definitely a Nate guy.

I know I have run way off topic here, but I can't help hype my man Crittendon up every chance that I get.


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## gatorpops

Doesn't anyone think that they may be hoping for that big center kid, O'bryant, I think, at #7?

gatorpops


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## BlazerFanFoLife

i personaly dont like this deal one bit. I think Telfair is worth more than everyone in this draft except for maybe the top 3. I would much rather hold onto telfair for this season and trade away blake. Im surprised that so many people are okay with trading telfair for the 7th pick in a draft where everyone being drafted is almost on the same level, which imo is below telfairs


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## mediocre man

Here is what the trade will be if it happens. 

Telfair, Khyapa or Outlaw, #30, #31 and cash 

for Jefferson and #7

This will be the trade if it happens. 

One scenario I've heard has Toronto selecting Aldridge #1, and Portland will select Bargnani #4 swap picks along with a player from Portland and future considerations

Portland will then grab Gay, Roy or Foye with #7

The other has Toronto picking Morrison #1 with Portland grabbing Bargnani and swapping along with the same considerations and using #7 to either draft Tyrus Thomas if he's there, or draft or continue to trade down and still grab Patrick O'Bryant or Cedric Simmons.


The guy that is letting me know these things seems to know what he's talking about, so I guess we'll have to wait and see.


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## Sambonius

I think we're hitching our hopes onto Jack way too early. This deal scares me, I'd rather give up Jack and throw in BOTH our late picks.


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## ProudBFan

Trader Bob said:


> 4 POR = Aldridge to take Joels place at Center
> 5 ATL = Randy Foye to be traded to Houston for the #8 and Luther Head
> 6 MIN = Morrison or Gay (Either one works for them or us)
> 7 POR = Morrison or Gay by trading with Boston. Boston trades the pick and Dickau for Telfair


OK, now you're just *trying* to get us all excited, TB.

Stop it. 

PBF


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## Reep

Well, if we can dream, with realism:

1) Gay (just read that this is possible and he worked out three times for TO)
2) Aldridge (could be Roy, but they need scoring help inside)
3) Morrison (they've evidently fixed on a SF)
4) Roy
5) Sh. Williams (Atlanta doesn't need another 3/4 like Bargnani)
6) Foye (Minnesota needs players, not projects)
7) Bargnani

End with Roy/Bargnani 

or 

1) Bargnani
2) Roy (trade Gordon for help inside)
3) Morrison (better fit with G. Wallace than Gay)
4) Aldridge
5) Sh. Williams (The Promise)
6) Gay
7) Thomas/O'Bryant/Brewer

End with Aldridge/O'Bryant

I'd take either of those.


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## Ed O

ProudBFan said:


> If this trade happens, my prediction is that the Blazers take Morrison @ #4, then Roy @ #7. No way is Morrison available to the Blazers @ #7.


I don't see Morrison slipping that far, either. I think that the best I could hope for in this kinda situation would be this:

1. Bargnani
2. Thomas
3. Morrison
4. Aldridge (with Morrison gone, Portland has to go big)
5. Shelden Williams (bumps 1 of the "big 6" down)
6. Foye (bumps another of the "big 6" down)

I would prefer to have a crack at Gay at #6, but if Foye's there, Boston probably just takes him rather than trading for Telfair. I don't think that Gay or Roy would be preferable to Telfair for the Celtics...

Portland probably takes Roy at #7, in that situation, although I'd prefer that they take Rudy Gay.

Ed O.


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## Trader Ed

I have wantede 2x lottery picks all along to get Aldridge and Morrison or Gay

I was hopig to trade Randolph or Miles to get it... if it has to be telfair.. I woudl hate it to start off.. but would probably accpe tit



Perhaps.... Dixon + Jack or Blake + Outlaw.... for the #7

thus keeping Telfair.... I prefer to keep Telfair and Jack (Greg Anthony type of guard)


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## lalooska

Looking backwards, it would make not drafting Paul sting that much more.


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## BlazerFanFoLife

Sambonius said:


> I think we're hitching our hopes onto Jack way too early. This deal scares me, I'd rather give up Jack and throw in BOTH our late picks.


I agree. Jack has been injured for the last year and a half straight. Will he ever get better? Who knows. Some players have lingering injuries that they never rebound from.


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## Trader Ed

Ed O said:


> I don't see Morrison slipping that far, either. I think that the best I could hope for in this kinda situation would be this:
> 
> 1. Bargnani
> 2. Thomas
> 3. Morrison
> 4. Aldridge (with Morrison gone, Portland has to go big)
> 5. Shelden Williams (bumps 1 of the "big 6" down)
> 6. Foye (bumps another of the "big 6" down)
> 
> I would prefer to have a crack at Gay at #6, but if Foye's there, Boston probably just takes him rather than trading for Telfair. I don't think that Gay or Roy would be preferable to Telfair for the Celtics...
> 
> Portland probably takes Roy at #7, in that situation, although I'd prefer that they take Rudy Gay.
> 
> Ed O.



An Aldridge and Gay draft would be great...

PG Jack, Blake, Dickau
SG Webster, Dixon, Outlaw
SF Gay, Khryapa, (Outlaw)
PF Randolph, (Aldridge), Skinner
C Aldridge, Joel?, Theo, Ha

??? Miles + #30 and #31


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## Charlotte_______

Trader Bob, no offense but your third pick predictions are horrible. Ronnie Brewer? And I remember you putting Reddick one time at 3 also.


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## ebott

Let's say the deal goes down. I could see us taking Roy at #4 to sabotage the rumored Atlanta/Houston deal. If the reports are true then Atlanta takes Sheldon Williams at #5. That guarantees that one of the big 6, as I like to call them, will be available at #7.


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## Trader Ed

Charlotte_______ said:


> Trader Bob, no offense but your third pick predictions are horrible. Ronnie Brewer? And I remember you putting Reddick one time at 3 also.




I know...

no offense taken.. I just think Charlotte is going to surpirse us


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## BlazerFanFoLife

Im starting to think the draft will go something like this:

1: Gay
2: Bargnani
3: Roy
4: Aldridge
5: Thomas
6: Morrison


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## Fork

I can honestly see this as the top 8.

1: Bargnani - The Italian connection, they must love this guy. I think he'll be the best player in this draft. 

2: Thomas - supposedly, they've had their eye on his athleticism, defense and hustle for a while. This pick makes some sense. 

3: Gay - best athlete, may be a superstar, Jordan wants a superstar. Could he be like Pippen?

4: Morrison - allegedly our guy all along. I can live with this pick. 

5: Sheldon Williams - I don't get it, but they supposedly love him. Okay. 

6: Randy Foye - maybe the best PG in the draft and Minnesota needs one.

7: Lamarcus Aldridge - with Foye off the board and Jefferson already on the squad, Boston trades this pick to us, Aldridge becomes ours and I **** my pants

8: Brandon Roy - This scenario may be why Atlanta and Houston have stopped trade discussions.


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## ProudBFan

BlazerFanFoLife said:


> i personaly dont like this deal one bit. I think Telfair is worth more than everyone in this draft except for maybe the top 3.


But TO THE BLAZERS, Telfair is currently a 2nd/3rd-string PG. There is a log-jam there that MUST be cleaned up this off-season (they want to have clear roles defined up and down the roster next year). And I doubt the Blazers are going to get any better return for any of their 3 PG's than the #7 pick in this year's draft.



> I would much rather hold onto telfair for this season and trade away blake.


And what do you do during/after next season when there isn't enough PT to split between Jack and Telfair? They are both destined to be starters. Do you trade one of them then? If so, you've just lost both Blake (this summer) AND either Jack or Telfair (later).

If Jack is healthy, he'll beat Blake out of the starting spot. I have no doubts about that. Thing is, Blake has demonstrated the ability to play from the bench (good attitude about such things). And if Jack isn't healthy, Blake starts and is backed up by Jack (if he can play at all) and Dickau.

I would do this trade and not look back.

PBF


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## ProudBFan

BlazerFanFoLife said:


> I agree. Jack has been injured for the last year and a half straight. Will he ever get better? Who knows. Some players have lingering injuries that they never rebound from.


I would think that the Blazers would not even consider moving Telfair unless they have good reason to believe Jack will bounce back.

PBF


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## Fork

BlazerFanFoLife said:


> I agree. Jack has been injured for the last year and a half straight. Will he ever get better? Who knows. Some players have lingering injuries that they never rebound from.


True, some guys never recover. But not with bone chips and loose particles in the ankle, which is Jack's only problem. 

He'll bounce back and end up being better than ever next season.


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## ProudBFan

Fork said:


> 7: Lamarcus Aldridge - with Foye off the board and Jefferson already on the squad, Boston trades this pick to us, Aldridge becomes ours and I **** my pants


You and me both. I really don't expect Aldridge to still be on the table at #7. But if he is, I hope to all that's holy that we're there to scoop him up.

Morrison AND Aldridge... you guys are crazy (in a good way).

PBF


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## gatorpops

My guess is that Portland is hoping for Roy to replace Telfair with #7 if the trade happens. 

Because Nate thinks he can play Jack and Roy together with enough ball handeling to make a big back court. With Blake they could sub for each. Not bad defensivly and offense wise. 

This makes sense to me if we get a wing or big with #4. Could we be trying to trade Miles for a pick also? Maybe three top picks?

gatopops


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## BBert

I think Charlotte is as likely to draft Roy at no. 3 as Gay or Morrison (as continues to be widely speculated). Roy works for them.

An Aldridge (no. 4) and Gay (no. 7) draft would be about as perfect as it could get for me. 

I also agree we don't need two wing players in this draft. If we can't get a tall guy (Aldridge or Bargnani) at no. 4 or no. 7, I don't think we should do the Telfair trade, unless we are trading both Miles and Travis. 

And I don't think we take O'Bryant at no. 7 either. I'd rather draft Foye (or Gay or Thomas or Morrison or Roy). 

However, if Bargnani and Aldridge go 1-2, a lot of my assumptions (hopes) go out the window. If Aldridge AND Gay AND Bargnani go top 3, I'll be extremely disappointed.

In that event, I guess my next choice is Morrison. Then one or more of Thomas/Roy/Foye would be there at no. 7 if they are intent on getting rid of Telfair. Still not a bad draft, I guess.

Here's to a great (I hope) draft.

:cheers:


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## Ed O

Fork said:


> 7: Lamarcus Aldridge - with Foye off the board and Jefferson already on the squad, Boston trades this pick to us, Aldridge becomes ours and I **** my pants


The problem here is that I would bet Boston takes and keeps Aldridge if he slides to them at #7.

I know that they've already spent picks on Jefferson and Perkins, and have LaFrentz under contract, but adding another young big guy would seem to be hard for them to pass up...

Ed O.


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## Reep

Blazer Bert said:


> I think Charlotte is as likely to draft Roy at no. 3 as Gay or Morrison (as continues to be widely speculated). Roy works for them.


I agree that Roy works for them, but I believe he cancelled his workout with Charlotte because it looked like they were already committed to Morrison/Gay. Roy at 2 wouldn't surprise me. Roy at 3 would.


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## Fork

Ed O said:


> The problem here is that I would bet Boston takes and keeps Aldridge if he slides to them at #7.
> 
> I know that they've already spent picks on Jefferson and Perkins, and have LaFrentz under contract, but adding another young big guy would seem to be hard for them to pass up...
> 
> Ed O.


Yeah, could be. Then again, maybe they're insane. That's what I'm hoping for at least.


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## Blazer Freak

When did Telfair become the 2nd/3rd string PG? Because Andy Katz or Chad Ford, whoever this is, said that? 

If Telfair isn't traded, he's the starter next season. Mark it down.


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## ProudBFan

Blazer Freak said:


> When did Telfair become the 2nd/3rd string PG? Because Andy Katz or Chad Ford, whoever this is, said that?


Um... no... He became the 2nd/3rd string PG when he played most of last season behind Blake and/or Jack.

PBF


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## yakbladder

Blazer Freak said:


> When did Telfair become the 2nd/3rd string PG? Because Andy Katz or Chad Ford, whoever this is, said that?
> 
> If Telfair isn't traded, he's the starter next season. Mark it down.


Marked and noted.


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## yakbladder

Ed O said:


> The problem here is that I would bet Boston takes and keeps Aldridge if he slides to them at #7.
> 
> I know that they've already spent picks on Jefferson and Perkins, and have LaFrentz under contract, but adding another young big guy would seem to be hard for them to pass up...
> 
> Ed O.


I forgot about LaFrentz. I wonder if Ainge tries to find a way to dump that guy on us.

IF this trade goes down, which I tend to believe is a big IF, I think that the Blazers have something else big planned. They have to move Miles at some point this summer. 

Maybe they move Dickau along to Toronto with the #4 in exchange for the #1? Maybe that's why they are so concerned about Dickau's status? Or maybe they're actually moving Blake to Toronto with the #4 for the #1???


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## MAS RipCity

please please don't trade telfair...kid is only 20!!!!! this is why we never get any team chemistry is because we trade away palyers so damn quickly and espescially when they aren't ready to be dealt.


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## RoseCity

gatorpops said:


> My guess is that Portland is hoping for Roy to replace Telfair with #7 if the trade happens.
> 
> Because Nate thinks he can play Jack and Roy together with enough ball handeling to make a big back court. With Blake they could sub for each. Not bad defensivly and offense wise.
> 
> This makes sense to me if we get a wing or big with #4. Could we be trying to trade Miles for a pick also? Maybe three top picks?
> 
> gatopops


Good point! I could see the following a very likely scenario:

Aldridge @ #4
Roy @ #7

We end up with:
PG: Jack/Roy
SG: Roy/Webster
SF: Webster/Miles
PF: Randolph
C: Aldridge

Looks good!! :clap:


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## Blazer Freak

ProudBFan said:


> Um... no... He became the 2nd/3rd string PG when he played most of last season behind Blake and/or Jack.
> 
> PBF


Um... no..he won the starting spot back again at the end of the season. Thus meaning he was the starter.


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## Blazer Freak

RoseCity said:


> Good point! I could see the following a very likely scenario:
> 
> Aldridge @ #4
> Roy @ #7
> 
> We end up with:
> PG: Jack/Roy
> SG: Roy/Webster
> SF: Webster/Miles
> PF: Randolph
> C: Aldridge
> 
> Looks good!! :clap:


I think people just don't get it. Webster is a 2, and Nate even said that. Webster can play maybe 10mpg at the 3, but he is a 2. So if we do draft Roy, he's playing the 3, or PG. 

Look at him like Jalen Rose, 1/2/3. Jack/Webster/Roy/Zach/Aldridge. That's how it'd go.


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## ProudBFan

FYI - Celtics fans over in their forum seem to like the Telfair for #7 @ Dickau swap, too.

PBF


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## Charlotte_______

Reep said:


> I agree that Roy works for them, but I believe he cancelled his workout with Charlotte because it looked like they were already committed to Morrison/Gay. Roy at 2 wouldn't surprise me. Roy at 3 would.


This is what I thought too, but recently in the Seattle Times Brandon Roy went on saying that all they did was interview him on what kind of person he was. Roy asked what about his workout, and the Bobcats said don't worry we've seen enough of your games to know how you play. So anythings possible.


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## yakbladder

First of all, Blazer Freak, Telfair didn't "win" his starting spot at the end of last year. Maybe you just missed reading all of the papers, but Nate did a rotational starting plan among all of the PGs to see how well they could play the 1 and 2. 

Secondly, DraftExpress, for what it's worth, is stating that every war room mock draft still has Aldridge #1 and Gay is MJ's pick in Charlotte. How this compares with the hype being put out by ESPN, who knows...


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## Todd

Blazer Freak said:


> When did Telfair become the 2nd/3rd string PG? Because Andy Katz or Chad Ford, whoever this is, said that?
> 
> If Telfair isn't traded, he's the starter next season. Mark it down.





> Telfair, the controversial pick out of Lincoln High (N.Y.) who went at No. 13 in 2004, played in just 68 games last season because of an injured thumb. He started off the season well but never recovered his role after returning. Telfair is now behind Steve Blake and Jarrett Jack on the team's depth chart, making it obvious why the Blazers are willing to move him.


What he said.


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## Oldmangrouch

Wow. :jawdrop: 

Didn't take long for the mob to turn on Telfair, did it? 

And please don't tell me you are excited about getting the #7 pick. The #7 in this draft is about the equivalent of the 15th - 20th pick in an average draft. At the risk of repeating myself - this is NOT the year to pay top $$ for draft picks.


----------



## PapaG

ProudBFan said:


> If this trade happens, my prediction is that the Blazers take Morrison @ #4, then Roy @ #7. No way is Morrison available to the Blazers @ #7.
> 
> PBF


I think Roy/Morrison at #4, Patrick O'Bryant at #7. 

Theo is old and Joel is as good as gone. The Blazers need a center.


----------



## Fork

Draft express' new mock draft is interesting.

Aldridge
Bargnani
gay
Morrison
Roy (traded to Houston)
Foye
Thomas
Sheldon Williams (traded to Atlanta)

So, if Tyrus Thomas is the player available at #7...would you want to trade Telfair to get him?

http://www.draftexpress.com/mock.php?y=2006


----------



## Fork

Oldmangrouch said:


> Wow. :jawdrop:
> 
> Didn't take long for the mob to turn on Telfair, did it?
> 
> And please don't tell me you are excited about getting the #7 pick. The #7 in this draft is about the equivalent of the 15th - 20th pick in an average draft. At the risk of repeating myself - this is NOT the year to pay top $$ for draft picks.


I think you're grossly overstating the lack of depth in this draft. 

And as for Telfair, he doesn't shoot a high percentage and he doesn't play much defense. Maybe we're anticipating drafting Adam Morrison and we realize that it'll be tougher to win with two guys who can't defend the perimeter. Trade one of them to make room for Jarrett Jack, who actually can defend.


----------



## chromekilla

God dammit dont move telfair unless we get gerald green or ryan gomes.


----------



## Blazer Freak

yakbladder said:


> First of all, Blazer Freak, Telfair didn't "win" his starting spot at the end of last year. Maybe you just missed reading all of the papers, but Nate did a rotational starting plan among all of the PGs to see how well they could play the 1 and 2.
> 
> Secondly, DraftExpress, for what it's worth, is stating that every war room mock draft still has Aldridge #1 and Gay is MJ's pick in Charlotte. How this compares with the hype being put out by ESPN, who knows...


This was before they went to the PG Carousel. I know they did that, but in interviews before games, Nate raved about how Telfair fought back from coming off the bench and took his spot back. 

You might not remember, but then again, what's your opinion, what's my opinion, what's anyones opinion in here count for? Nothing. We aren't Nate, and we damn sure ain't the managment. 

And Todd, how would Andy Katz know what our depth chart looked like, they were busy talking about Detriot season. I'd put money on them not watching one Blazer Game, so their opinion is about as valuable as the **** I took this mourning.


----------



## Oldmangrouch

Fork said:


> Draft express' new mock draft is interesting.
> 
> Aldridge
> Bargnani
> gay
> Morrison
> Roy (traded to Houston)
> Foye
> Thomas
> Sheldon Williams
> 
> So, if Tyrus Thomas is the player available at #7...would you want to trade Telfair to get him?
> 
> http://www.draftexpress.com/mock.php?y=2006




:curse: no!  no!

Yes, the kid has a high ceiling......but the basement floor is a looong way down. As someone else observed (Minstrel?) this kid fits the profile for a big bust.


----------



## chromekilla

No way i dont want thomas.


----------



## Ed O

Fork said:


> So, if Tyrus Thomas is the player available at #7...would you want to trade Telfair to get him?


I probably would. Thomas is a guy that I really think would be a good value at the #7 spot, and while it might be a while before he becomes a starting-caliber player, I think his upside is incredible and I'd be more excited to have him part of the team's future than Telfair.

Ed O.


----------



## Kmurph

Oldmangrouch said:


> Wow. :jawdrop:
> 
> Didn't take long for the mob to turn on Telfair, did it?
> 
> And please don't tell me you are excited about getting the #7 pick. The #7 in this draft is about the equivalent of the 15th - 20th pick in an average draft. At the risk of repeating myself - this is NOT the year to pay top $$ for draft picks.


Nicely put...the lemmings in this forum had already turned on him quite awhile ago....

Apparently drafted out of HIGH SCHOOL...means MUST PERFORM NOW...to many of them...

:nonono:

I think POR will come to deeply regret this trade if they are foolish enough to make it...but hey, many of the fans clamoring for it can just blame mgmt and conveniently forget that they were for it...

Well I won't...and I was one of those who clamored to deal Jermaine away...and I sure wish POR hadn't....


----------



## Todd

> so their opinion is about as valuable as the **** I took this mourning.


The **** I took this morning was very valuable, thank you :biggrin:


----------



## Minstrel

This would be an atrocious trade. Telfair had a superior season to Shawn Livingston, improved from his rookie season and is entering the seasons in which prep-to-pro players tend to have their breakout seasons (seasons 3 and 4). So, people want to deal him the offseason before he's likeliest to show his real potential?

And for the #7 pick in one of the weakest drafts in recent memory, one in which there are maybe 5 prospects who have even a small chance of becoming a star (4 for me, since I don't think Thomas has even a small chance).

As disappointed as I was by the Jermaine O'Neal trade at the time (who really considered Dale "10/10" Davis a legitimate All-Star?), this trade would be significantly worse to me.


----------



## Blazer Maven

papag said:


> I think Roy/Morrison at #4, Patrick O'Bryant at #7.
> 
> Theo is old and Joel is as good as gone. The Blazers need a center.


If Morrison or Roy is drafted at #4 and there is a Darius deal done before mid-July, Joel stays. If Darius is still on the roster, Joel bolts.

O'Bryant would be a quality pick at #7.


----------



## Blazed

Fork said:


> So, if Tyrus Thomas is the player available at #7...would you want to trade Telfair to get him?


Gay/Morrison at 4 and Tyrus Thomas at 7 would be an absolute dream scenerio.


----------



## tobybennett

I think they will look for Morrison at #4, then if they trade bassy a PG will be looked at for #7(either Roy/Foye). I don't see this trade going down before, the first five picks have actually been made.


----------



## chromekilla

The more the think about the this more i get pissed off.I really hope this is a rumor and not a real trade.The only people i would want from bos would be gerald green,ryan gomes.I would be willing to do blake 4th pick,30th pick 31st pick and darius miles?That would be a great trade.


----------



## e_blazer1

A few thoughts:

1. Rumors are rumors and so far this is nothing but that. Every year we hear a load of these supposed deals and most of them never happen. Given that fact, there's not much use in getting too worked up over this thing.

2. If the Blazers are willing to move Telfair, it shouldn't be seen as a knock on his talents but, rather, an attempt to balance out the talent distribution on the roster. For Ainge to consider moving the #7 for him, you'd have to say that his reputation around the league is pretty good.

3. I would venture to say that Telfair and Nate have differing expectations about the role of a point guard. If Telfair is the odd man out in the Blazers' PG rotation, that's probably a major factor in the decision-making process.


----------



## chromekilla

I don't see why nate should have any say he isint like a allstar coach just a good coach that had a good squad in seattle.


----------



## e_blazer1

chromekilla said:


> I don't see why nate should have any say he isint like a allstar coach just a good coach that had a good squad in seattle.


The Blazers committed to Nate last summer and you can bet your backside that part of the deal was that they would give him significant input on building the team the way he wants it. If you check around the league I think you'll find that Nate has a very solid reputation as a good coach. Of course he should be given a major say in rebuilding the team.


----------



## chromekilla

meh i dont like nates coaching style doesnt fit in with the team good.


----------



## PorterIn2004

Ed O said:


> On the third hand, I don't know if it makes sense to trade Telfair to clear up a bit of a logjam at the 1 to simply make one at another position (with Webster/Morrison/Roy at the swing spots).
> 
> Ed O.


I don't see it as that much of a problem. I'd see Jack starting at PG with Webster and Roy battling for starting SG, the other being the first guard off the bench. If Roy is coming off the bench, he comes in at either position. If Webster comes off the bench, he goes to SG and Roy slides over. Morrison (or Gay, Bangani, or whomever) starts at SF with Webster getting a few minutes there as well. Someone like Blake is around for the occasions that Jack needs a break and Roy's having trouble bringing the ball up but otherwise it's Roy as back-up PG.

Naturally this all hinges on Roy being able to play PG at all at the pro level but it's a gamble I'd be willing to take.


----------



## Reep

PorterIn2004 said:


> Naturally this all hinges on Roy being able to play PG at all at the pro level but it's a gamble I'd be willing to take.


Nate specifically said that he was going to talk to Romar about Roy's ability to handle the point. Hopefully he received an honest answer.

You all know what this Boston thing is really about don't you? Ever since the Bird era ended, Boston has been missing their leprechaun. They thought they found him in Dickau, but they learned that he was too tall for a leprechaun. So their next best lead is Telfair. Got to get that luck back into Boston.


----------



## ProudBFan

Blazer Freak said:


> Um... no..he won the starting spot back again at the end of the season. Thus meaning he was the starter.


After Jack was shut down for the remainder of the season due to his injury.

PBF


----------



## myELFboy

chromekilla said:


> meh i dont like nates coaching style doesnt fit in with the team good.


Okay, what don't you like? The only time I saw the Blazers play was against the Supes, and everytime it was pretty bad. Is it because they don't "run"? To run, you need to grab the rebound, have an athletic big man running the floor, a PG looking to push, and perimeter shooters that can kill you on the outside. The Blazers have the PG in Sebastien (though maybe not for long according to rumors...) but I fail to see the athletic big man nor the consistent perimeter shooting. So Nate is stuck coaching a style with that team that isn't appealing to most. With the Sonics he had Luke/AD & Rashard, Vladimir, and Ray draining 3's, and Danny, Reggie, Nick grabbing the boards. & I'm beginning to think that year was all a fluke, because everyone wanted their big contracts & so they played well. Anyway, I think Nate has a good reputation, but he's still too young a coach to tout him as the next great thing. How he adjusts to what is given to him will show how good he is.


----------



## The Sebastian Express

ProudBFan said:


> After Jack was shut down for the remainder of the season due to his injury.
> 
> PBF



Apr 19 PHO L 96-106 0 29:26 7 12 58.3 1 2 50.0 3 3 100.0 1 3 4 4 2 0 0 1 18 
Apr 17 @ GSW L 79-93 0 27:13 4 9 44.4 0 3 0.0 3 3 100.0 2 3 5 5 2 0 0 1 11 
Apr 15 GSW L 81-86 0 18:51 6 10 60.0 0 1 0.0 3 6 50.0 1 1 2 3 1 0 0 4 15 
Apr 14 @ LAL L 99-110 0 24:47 2 4 50.0 0 0 0.0 4 5 80.0 0 2 2 11 4 0 0 3 8 
Apr 12 @ LAC L 93-97 0 32:10 8 12 66.7 0 1 0.0 4 5 80.0 0 3 3 7 0 1 0 5 20 


Those are the last five games of the season. That is Jack's game log. He only missed two games the whole season, he was hardly 'shut down'.


----------



## Utherhimo

#4 bargnani/morrison/gay

and 
#7 gay/brewer/sheldon


----------



## deanwoof

LOL @ Telfair having a far superior seasn than Shaun Livingston. Like I said in a previous draft, Telfair is probably 5th-6th best PG from that year's draft at this moment. 

However, that doesn't mean I want to give up on him already, even if it does clear up the logjam at PG (and no, Dickau doesn't count as a real PG).


----------



## ColoradoBlazerFan

I'm not convinced that anyone available at the #7 is more promising than telfair, and Dikau, done that before and I don't recall too many tears over us trading him again (although singing "he's a ...DIK...AU!!" was kinda fun). Unless Nate is convinced that Bassy isn't the right player for this team (not sure of that rumour either), it doesn't make sense as the deal stands now. Even if trading Telfair had to be done, at least use it as trade bait for You Know Who.

Peace


----------



## Minstrel

deanwoof said:


> LOL @ Telfair having a far superior seasn than Shaun Livingston.


Well, that isn't what I said.



> Like I said in a previous draft, Telfair is probably 5th-6th best PG from that year's draft at this moment.


You can say it, but the evidence is to the contrary, as *I* have posted in a previous thread.


----------



## Blazer Freak

ProudBFan said:


> After Jack was shut down for the remainder of the season due to his injury.
> 
> PBF


That's wrong. Jack wasn't shut down. Telfair earned his spot, then a little bit later, they had the PG carousel. And Jack played. 

Nice try.


----------



## Kmurph

> Telfair is probably 5th-6th best PG from that year's draft at this moment.


Dude...put down the bottle.....


----------



## Reep

Blazer Freak said:


> That's wrong. Jack wasn't shut down. Telfair earned his spot, then a little bit later, they had the PG carousel. And Jack played.
> 
> Nice try.


I think you are actually both wrong. Toward the end of the season is when Nate did his point guard carousel because he wanted each one to get solid minutes to show what they could do. It wasn't about winning a spot. I think the only spot that was won, was Blake keeping the starting spot when Telfair came back. Everything else was experimentation.


----------



## Blazer Freak

Reep said:


> I think you are actually both wrong. Toward the end of the season is when Nate did his point guard carousel because he wanted each one to get solid minutes to show what they could do. It wasn't about winning a spot. I think the only spot that was won, was Blake keeping the starting spot when Telfair came back. Everything else was experimentation.


I'm _pretty_ sure Telfair won it before the carousel, but then again, toward the end of the season, all I was looking at were Bassy's stats and the standings.


----------



## yakbladder

Blazer Freak said:


> I'm _pretty_ sure Telfair won it before the carousel, but then again, toward the end of the season, all I was looking at were Bassy's stats and the standings.


Why were you only looking at Bassy's stats? Would you change team allegiance if Bassy did get traded?

I still say if they trade Bassy it's because there is another trade that is dependant upon either the #7 pick or Dickau, and that the Blazers won't keep both.


----------



## Reep

Kmurph said:


> Dude...put down the bottle.....


Compare:

Sebastian Telfair
Ben Gordon
Shaun Livingston
Devin Harris
Jameer Nelson
Delonte West

Telfair was:
5th in points
6th in fg%
4th in 3pt%
4th is assists
6th in rebounding

You can draw your own conclusions.


----------



## Spoolie Gee

Reep said:


> Compare:
> 
> Sebastian Telfair
> Ben Gordon
> Shaun Livingston
> Devin Harris
> Jameer Nelson
> Delonte West
> 
> Telfair was:
> 5th in points
> 6th in fg%
> 4th in 3pt%
> 4th is assists
> 6th in rebounding
> 
> You can draw your own conclusions.


Gordon isnt a PG. Not sure I'd call Nelson and West one either but that's debatable.


----------



## tobybennett

Reep said:


> Compare:
> 
> Sebastian Telfair
> Ben Gordon
> Shaun Livingston
> Devin Harris
> Jameer Nelson
> Delonte West
> 
> Telfair was:
> 5th in points
> 6th in fg%
> 4th in 3pt%
> 4th is assists
> 6th in rebounding
> 
> You can draw your own conclusions.


Hmmm point well proved. I would call Gordon more of a shooting guard, but it's strange to see how much better some of the other pgs are playing. Most of them were taken ahead of Bassy, so that's not too suprising. Also I look for Telfair to take one or two more seasons to start to full understand how to play point guard at an NBA level.


----------



## Reep

West and Gordon are kind of combo guards, but West averated 4.6 assists and Gordon was just below Telfair at 3.0 assists. Both were listed as PGs at the time of the draft too, I believe. Also, West and Nelson overachieved and Gordon and Harris also had solid years. 

Telfair is younger than these guys, but the question to be addressed is who were the top point guards to come out of that draft. You could argue that Telfair is somewhere in the 4-5 range, depending on how you value scoring, rebounding and assists.


----------



## sa1177

tobybennett said:


> Hmmm point well proved. I would call Gordon more of a shooting guard, but it's strange to see how much better some of the other pgs are playing. Most of them were taken ahead of Bassy, so that's not too suprising. Also I look for Telfair to take one or two more seasons to start to full understand how to play point guard at an NBA level.


Yet arguabaly the best of the bunch (Nelson) was taken well after Telfair.


----------



## Ed O

Spoolie Gee said:


> Gordon isnt a PG. Not sure I'd call Nelson and West one either but that's debatable.


West and Nelson are the starting PGs for their teams... they're certainly point guards in my opinion.

Gordon's not a PG, but you can swap in Duhon (who was outscored by Telfair but had better numbers across the board otherwise) and Telfair goes right back down statistically.

Even ASSUMING he's the 5th-best PG, though, it's not conclusive. He's still so young that he should improve more than players like Nelson or Duhon, who are a couple years older.

It does bring into question, though, those that are already sold on Telfair's future greatness. Players like Tony Parker or Stephon Marbury or Chris Paul--PGs that were active in the NBA at Telfair's age--were markedly superior players to Telfair at the same stage of their careers.

So while it's possible that Telfair's a powderkeg of potential just waiting to go off, I don't find it to be that likely. That's not reason to trade him, of course, unless we get good value back.

Ed O.


----------



## RoseCity

- Telfair is nothing compared to Livingston, production/development/talent or otherwise. Telfair is barely 6-0/175, has no jumper and hasn't really had more then a few good games in his career. By most accounts, Telfair appears to be nothing more then average. 

- This draft is NOT weak. It's very deep in fact. How are people stupid enough to say it's a weak draft yet support Telfair as a good prospect? For one, you will not know how good this draft will be for 5 years.. two, might be no superstars in this draft but very productive, borderline all-stars are overflowing from this group. Yet supporting Telfair who has done NOTHING!

- In many ways, Telfair had his chance here. He doesn't fit our coaches system. No defense, small and no jumper. He will be happier out east and his style of play fits better. 

- Portland has a shot at a VERY good player, with potential to be great; Thomas, Roy, Aldridge, Morrison..etc AND a chance to fill a need (center/power forward) plus get another prospect. TWO potential studs over one + Telfair. Give me the two potential players over 1 and Telfair. This team is going nowhere for years anyway. 

Lastly, we will be lucky to get a top 15 pick for Telfair next year, should his production not markedly increase this coming season. His trade value will not be higher, IMO. However, I feel #7 for Telfair (Dickau is a nothing) is kind short changing us despite the above.


----------



## deanwoof

dont forget about chris duhon in that list. 2nd rounder.


----------



## Spoolie Gee

Ed O said:


> West and Nelson are the starting PGs for their teams... they're certainly point guards in my opinion.
> 
> Gordon's not a PG, but you can swap in Duhon (who was outscored by Telfair but had better numbers across the board otherwise) and Telfair goes right back down statistically.
> 
> Even ASSUMING he's the 5th-best PG, though, it's not conclusive. He's still so young that he should improve more than players like Nelson or Duhon, who are a couple years older.
> 
> It does bring into question, though, those that are already sold on Telfair's future greatness. Players like Tony Parker or Stephon Marbury or Chris Paul--PGs that were active in the NBA at Telfair's age--were markedly superior players to Telfair at the same stage of their careers.
> 
> So while it's possible that Telfair's a powderkeg of potential just waiting to go off, I don't find it to be that likely. That's not reason to trade him, of course, unless we get good value back.
> 
> Ed O.


Can't say I disagree with the jist of your post. But I do think West and Nelson are more combo-gaurds that just happen to be on teams that need them to start at PG.


----------



## Ed O

Spoolie Gee said:


> Can't say I disagree with the jist of your post. But I do think West and Nelson are more combo-gaurds that just happen to be on teams that need them to start at PG.


Fair enough.

Ed O.


----------



## Boob-No-More

Spoolie Gee said:
 

> Gordon isnt a PG. Not sure I'd call Nelson and West one either but that's debatable.


Nelson is definitely a PG - no debating it. He finished the season as Orlando's starting PG with DaShawn Stevenson starting all 82 games at SG.

Chosen at 20, Nelson was defintely a steal. Yes, he is almost three years older than Telfair, but so far his game has translated much better to the NBA. He played 16% more MPG than Telfair, but scored 54% more, shot much better (48.3 vs. 39.4 FG%, 42.4 vs. 35.2 3FG%) averaged 36% more assists and 61% more rebounds. Supposedly, Telfair has more "upside", but so far Nelson is looking like a much better player and a better pick.

There's something to be said for guys who had outstanding college careers - especially at the PG position where Nelson was a four year starter. Chris Duhon was another guy taken much later than Telfair who was a 3+ year starter at Duke. Scoring and shooting wise, he was pretty close to Telfair this year (slightly lower scoring, slightly better shooting), but also averaged considerably more APG (5.0 vs. 3.6) and RPG (3.0 vs. 1.8). Again the guy who has a lot of college experience seems to be adapting better/faster to the NBA game and was a much better "value" pick at 38 than Telfair was at 13.

So, where will Telfair be in 2 - 3 years when he's as old as these guys are now? Who knows. That's the problem with drafting based on "upside", you never know what you're going to get. Will he ever be as good as Nelson, or even Duhon, or will he eventually be better? I have nothing against Telfair as a player and hope he does develop into something special. My problem all along was the Blazers taking him, an undersized high school point guard, in the lottery. He may eventually develop into a quality starter, but the PG position is the hardest to learn and it will take Telfair at least four years of NBA experience to devlop into a quality starting NBA PG. Passing on more experienced players, like Nelson or even Duhon (who they could have had at 22 or 23), they basically slowed the rebuilding process while we all wait for Telfair to (hopefully) develop. I'm not bagging on Telfair, it's not his fault. He's doing his best, working hard and getting better. I am bagging on the Blazers for using a lottery pick on a high school PG. Either they were naive enough to think he could be a quality NBA starting PG before his fifth NBA season, or they basically just decided to write off the play-offs and return to the lottery for four more years.

BNM


----------



## Boob-No-More

That said, should we trade Telfair for the 7th pick (+/- whatever)? Depends on who's available at 7. If any of Morrison, Aldridge, Bargnani, Roy or Gay are available, I'd do it in a heartbeat. That doesn't mean I'm "giving up on" Telfair, just that I think everyone on that list fits our team's needs better and has more potential to impact our bottom line (wins, not $$$ directly - although winning will help with the $$$ as well) sooner than Telfair. Heck, even if Shelden Williams is available at 7, I'd seriously consider pulling the trigger. He'll be a solid NBA 4 for the next ten years - and we could then try to trade Zach, or at least use Willaims to push him for the starting 4 spot. If all those guys are gone, but Tyrus Thomas is available, It's a coin toss for me. Thomas is young and has has a lot of upside - sort of like Telfair, but 9" taller. Thomas could be great, or he could be a bust. No way to tell at this point.

BNM


----------



## Boob-No-More

Spoolie Gee said:


> Can't say I disagree with the jist of your post. But I do think West and Nelson are more combo-gaurds that just happen to be on teams that need them to start at PG.


I can see your point with West - as he played the 2 in college, but is currently the Celtics starting PG. Perhaps that's why they want Telfair, so West can return to his more natural 2 guard position.

Nelson, on the other hand, at 6'0" 190 lbs. is, and has always been, a PG. It's the role he played in college (alongside West) and the role he's played in every single NBA game he's played.

BNM


----------



## Verro

If we could get 2 of these 3 (Bargnani/Aldridge/Gay) I'd be in favor of the trade. For instance if the draft went down like this:

Aldridge
Thomas
Morrison
Bargnani
S. Williams
Roy
Gay

But I wouldn't feel comfortable trading Telfair for any other player in the draft. I'm just not that high on Roy, Morrison, or Thomas.


----------



## SheedSoNasty

This deal cannot happen until we see who's available at #7... for some odd reason, nbadraft.net had LaMarcus Aldridge dropping all the way to #10. If we could end up with Morrison and Aldridge, I'd be willing to give up Bassy.

Overall, it's a tough decision.


----------



## Oldmangrouch

Verro said:


> If we could get 2 of these 3 (Bargnani/Aldridge/Gay) I'd be in favor of the trade. For instance if the draft went down like this:
> 
> Aldridge
> Thomas
> Morrison
> Bargnani
> S. Williams
> Roy
> Gay
> 
> But I wouldn't feel comfortable trading Telfair for any other player in the draft. I'm just not that high on Roy, Morrison, or Thomas.


I would *consider* doing it for Morrison......depending on how bad he really looked at workouts. Beyond the 3 guys you mention, I see no one else worth worrying about.

Roy or Sheldon Williams will be nice role-players......but I would expect Telfair to be at least that good. Thomas is a risk to leave an Eddie Curry sized crater. Brewer? Unless his shooting is better than advertised, we would be drafting nothing more than a back-up to Webster. 

All this because Jack *might* be better than Telfair? Because Nate doesn't like him? Because Nash did?

Telfair is not some canker sore like Darius who we NEED to trade. As I have said in the past, I don't believe Telfair is going to be more than a league average PG - but that is still worth more than anything we are likely to get out of *this* draft.


----------



## Ed O

SheedSoNasty said:


> This deal cannot happen until we see who's available at #7... for some odd reason, nbadraft.net had LaMarcus Aldridge dropping all the way to #10. If we could end up with Morrison and Aldridge, I'd be willing to give up Bassy.


Interestingly in the NBAdraft.net mock, they have Boston taking (reaching) for Marcus Williams... wouldn't the Celtics be better off with Telfair than Williams? I would think so. And the Blazers would probably be better off with Aldridge than Telfair...

Aldridge going 1 at DraftExpress and 10 at NBAdraft.net? Someone is WAY off 

Ed O.


----------



## Peaceman

Nate talked up Telfair a lot at the end of the year, but that could have been to raise his trade value since we have three good PG's. I would trade Telfair for the #7 pick, but if we keep Jack and Telfair, I would be happy also. 
My main concern with Telfair is his shot. I would have liked to hear him staying in Portland this summer with a shooting coach instead of playing street ball on the east coast. Maybe the coaching staff should have pressured him more to do that. I think he falls in love with the fancy pass to often instead of working on some of the basics like a consistant mid and long range shot.


----------



## ballocks

that's really quite interesting. i can prove to myself that it's the night before the draft by realizing that i have multiple theories to explain this one story. it's remarkable- and they're cetainly in (some) conflict with one another.

1) my first reaction had to do with the raptors, of course, but i'm starting to think it could be the most probable scenario. i think this particular rumour- at this time- could conceivably suggest that the raptors had asked pdx earlier for #4 + telfair in exchange for #1 and the trail blazers had replied with some other permutation (if anything at all). now, one night before the big event, not surprisingly, boston enters the picture to, if nothing else, appreciate bassy's value in the minds of the raptors (or someone else?) so they'd consider new player meat (i.e. "look, telfair can command the 7 _alone_- so we're not giving him to you... but make another offer because we might still want the 1").

i mean, when i consider that boston is the team involved here, i'm not shocked, especially after considering the divisional rivalry between bos and tor, among other issues. when i think about it like this, quite frankly, i tend to not believe that boston has any interest in telfair whatsoever- it's more of a play to help boston by _not_ improving the *toronto* roster, and/or help portland by convincing colangelo to reconsider and make an alternative offer to which the blazers might find themselves more agreeable.

^ i'm just reading that over now, and it appears ridiculous- but i still can't write it off. i just can't. it makes no sense at all- and yet it makes perfect sense. and even if the conspiracy theorist in me were to take a back seat and concede that portland & boston would have to be mighty distracted (or mighty insane) to even do this in concert (i.e. "ok, we'll do this.... you do this...", etc.), in pursuit of some mystery goal together, i can't necessarily convince myself that either one wouldn't be doing it on their own. in other words, not _really_ 'considering' this particular trade, but pretending to do so. or playing trade counterpart (portland->boston, boston->portland) in order to reap the abovementioned benefits as they pertain to the raptors and # 1 (for pdx) or the raptors and the atlantic division (for the celts).

2) my second point on this relates to another side of common sense- and that is that the blazers would probably be better off making a decision with respect to their backcourt sooner rather than later. thus, stories like this could indeed be legit- because they make sense- and maybe the blazers have reached a similar epiphany. after all, it's nice to have 2 young floor generals (and as many as 4) but, really, it's not doing the team (not to mention the players) much good to have them competing alongside of each other for another season. it could be better to make a decision pronto, take a risk (i guess that's what you'd call it) on one of them, and use the other to acquire another bona fide asset on the trade market before the names themselves lose their value. so the overnight return on the trade front would help justify the additional risk faced by picking one over the other(s). in that case, maybe bassy _is_ on the market- and maybe jack is also on the market- and hell, steve and juan may be trade fodder themselves, who knows.

so with the first theory, i tend to believe that portland wouldn't be doing it (trading telfair). with the second, it's quite the opposite (although it may not be telfair, and may not be boston). and i tend to believe them both equally right now. 

man, i have to start drinking...

peace


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## ColoradoBlazerFan

After reading that I think I need a drink... That's alot of deep thinking though just on a rumour but cheers on ya for a fun read

:cheers:


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## tobybennett

Ed O said:


> Interestingly in the NBAdraft.net mock, they have Boston taking (reaching) for Marcus Williams... wouldn't the Celtics be better off with Telfair than Williams? I would think so. And the Blazers would probably be better off with Aldridge than Telfair...
> 
> Aldridge going 1 at DraftExpress and 10 at NBAdraft.net? Someone is WAY off
> 
> Ed O.


The truth is that this year, no one knows anything about where they will get selected. So these mock drafts are pure fiction, I could throw a couple names in a hat and see where they come out for the top 7. I don't think Aldridge will fall past 7, wouldn't the hawks take aldridge over williams. I'm not so sure I even believe this "promise" from the hawks at 5.


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## Fork

Ed O said:


> Aldridge going 1 at DraftExpress and 10 at NBAdraft.net? Someone is WAY off
> 
> Ed O.


I believe it's going to be nbadraft.net looking stupid on that one.


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## hasoos

I find this pretty interesting because I read somewhere that Nate had been talking to the coach of UW to find out if Roy was able to run the point effectively. Top it off with the fact Portland has a glut of point guards but not much else, I could easily see a move to go to a 3 guard rotation with the combo guard off the bench to fill out minutes. Nate has consistently said the team needs more shooters, and there are plenty of those in this draft with Morrison, Roy and Foye all probably going top 10. The question is, who are they targeting, and are they still targeting a big man. 

It will all work out tomorrow. I don't expect all the teams needs to be filled, but I expect a hole or 2 to be filled and some improvement made. 

Now if they could only trade Darius Miles to basketball Siberia, that would be great. :clown:


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## barfo

hasoos said:


> Now if they could only trade Darius Miles to basketball Siberia, that would be great. :clown:


I don't think he can be traded to his current team.

barfo


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## Fork

barfo said:


> I don't think he can be traded to his current team.
> 
> barfo


As bad as we are, New York is worse.


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## Ed O

Fork said:


> As bad as we are, New York is worse.


How is that? Great city, more wins...

And at least they're SUPPOSED to win. What Blazer this year is going to start the season REALLY thinking that the playoffs are likely? Maybe the rookies?

In New York, they have a ton of guys who have made the playoffs, and they have a set of talent that SHOULD make the playoffs. Now, they might end up being a big disappointment again, but as a player I'd rather be on a team that might be a disappointment than one that has no chance.

Ed O.


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## Fork

Ed O said:


> How is that? Great city, more wins...
> 
> And at least they're SUPPOSED to win. What Blazer this year is going to start the season REALLY thinking that the playoffs are likely? Maybe the rookies?
> 
> In New York, they have a ton of guys who have made the playoffs, and they have a set of talent that SHOULD make the playoffs. Now, they might end up being a big disappointment again, but as a player I'd rather be on a team that might be a disappointment than one that has no chance.
> 
> Ed O.


$125 million payroll and a front office in absolute disarray. Their coach is a proven loser. Their GM is even worse. Strangely, he's the same guy. NY might make the playoffs? They wouldn't make the NBDL playoffs right now.


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## B_&_B

Fork said:


> $125 million payroll and a front office in absolute disarray. Their coach is a proven loser. Their GM is even worse. Strangely, he's the same guy. NY might make the playoffs? They wouldn't make the NBDL playoffs right now.


Very true... no way NY is better off than us. I'm sure I.Thomas and the Knick ownership would trade situations with us in a heartbeat.


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## Minstrel

Jameer Nelson : 19.5 PER
Devin Harris : 17.5 PER
Delonte West : 15.1 PER
*Sebastian Telfair : 13.0 PER*
Chris Duhon : 12.9 PER
Shaun Livingston : 10.2 PER

Telfair is also 2-3 years younger than the three point guards ahead of him on the list.


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## Entity

Of all the positions to have a superstar type player, I'm not a big fan of the franchise PG (Iverson/Baron Davis/Marbury/Francis type). I'm more interested in the star role playing PG (Kidd/Nash/Stockton/Porter type). I'm not saying that Telfair, Blake, Jack or Dickau has the potential to be any of these players. But if I had to drop them in those categories, then I'd put Telfair in the former (with Stoudamire) and Blake/Jack/Dickau in the latter.

The fact is, I prefer Blake and Jack, whether or not we get Dickau again. If Portland was to get the 7th pick, then filling two needs with the draft is fine by me. There's nothing Portland can do to be a contender next year anyway. But having two new guys who can contribute right away would be nice.


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## Ed O

Fork said:


> $125 million payroll and a front office in absolute disarray. Their coach is a proven loser. Their GM is even worse. Strangely, he's the same guy. NY might make the playoffs? They wouldn't make the NBDL playoffs right now.


Why should a player care what the payroll is? Would Miles rather be making what he's making on a $125m payroll or a $60m payroll? I would imagine he'd prefer the former, if either, because it would stop the fans and media from blaming HIM if the team loses.

Look at the same thing from another angle: Miles is the second-best player on the Blazers. If he were to go to NY's current roster, he'd be.. what, 5th-best? 6th? Marbury, Francis, Curry, Crawfor, Rose... all of those guys are better than Darius.

As for "proven loser" as coach? Which is which?

Coach A: 233 wins, 244 losses
Coach B: 131 wins, 115 losses

Hint: Thomas isn't the one with the career losing record.

We'll see how the Knicks end up. Their team is MUCH better than most give them credit for. It might not all come together, but "might not come together" is significantly better than "nothing to come together", as is in the case of Portland.

Ed O.


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## stanthecaddy22

Ed O said:


> How is that? Great city, more wins...
> 
> And at least they're SUPPOSED to win. What Blazer this year is going to start the season REALLY thinking that the playoffs are likely? Maybe the rookies?
> 
> In New York, they have a ton of guys who have made the playoffs, and they have a set of talent that SHOULD make the playoffs. Now, they might end up being a big disappointment again, but as a player I'd rather be on a team that might be a disappointment than one that has no chance.
> 
> Ed O.


with the likes of marbury, francis, and others they were still only able to get 1 more win then Portland. If you look at talent and payroll and such, they should have had a much better record.


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## Verro

Ed O said:


> Why should a player care what the payroll is? Would Miles rather be making what he's making on a $125m payroll or a $60m payroll? I would imagine he'd prefer the former, if either, because it would stop the fans and media from blaming HIM if the team loses.
> 
> Look at the same thing from another angle: Miles is the second-best player on the Blazers. If he were to go to NY's current roster, he'd be.. what, 5th-best? 6th? Marbury, Francis, Curry, Crawfor, Rose... all of those guys are better than Darius.
> 
> As for "proven loser" as coach? Which is which?
> 
> Coach A: 233 wins, 244 losses
> Coach B: 131 wins, 115 losses
> 
> Hint: Thomas isn't the one with the career losing record.
> 
> We'll see how the Knicks end up. Their team is MUCH better than most give them credit for. It might not all come together, but "might not come together" is significantly better than "nothing to come together", as is in the case of Portland.
> 
> Ed O.


I agree with most of this NY is definitely more attractive than Portland. I even think NY will make a run at the 8th seed this year. 

But Portland does have the better of the two coaches, records aside.


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## Scout226

Ed O said:


> Why should a player care what the payroll is? Would Miles rather be making what he's making on a $125m payroll or a $60m payroll? I would imagine he'd prefer the former, if either, because it would stop the fans and media from blaming HIM if the team loses.
> 
> Look at the same thing from another angle: Miles is the second-best player on the Blazers. If he were to go to NY's current roster, he'd be.. what, 5th-best? 6th? Marbury, Francis, Curry, Crawfor, Rose... all of those guys are better than Darius.


I'd say Darius would be 2nd or 3rd best player on the knicks. I don't value Rose, Curry, or Crawford that much. The main think NY has over Por is the city. Players would love the night life, bigger market, etc more than Por for the most part. The main place NY is ahead of Por in is the front office. It's worse than ours. I think 95% of NBA fans could have told you that Chi-NY deal for Curry was TERRIBLE.


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## Ed O

stanthecaddy22 said:


> with the likes of marbury, francis, and others they were still only able to get 1 more win then Portland. If you look at talent and payroll and such, they should have had a much better record.


Absolutely, positively agreed. If we're arguing which team underachieved more, then the Knicks won hands down.

If we're talking about which team is worse to play for, I think that the Blazers are easily worse than the Knicks, especially for veterans who would prefer (a) to have a chance to win, and (b) don't want to be blamed for the team's failings.

Ed O.


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## myELFboy

the only reason NY could make the playoffs is because they are in the east. THe west has a minimum of 12 teams that can compete for a playoff spot...the east has 5 that can maybe contend, but the rest is wide open. The west is just a helluvalot stronger, for the regular seasons at least, than the east.


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## Ed O

myELFboy said:


> the only reason NY could make the playoffs is because they are in the east. THe west has a minimum of 12 teams that can compete for a playoff spot...the east has 5 that can maybe contend, but the rest is wide open. The west is just a helluvalot stronger, for the regular seasons at least, than the east.


Might be entirely true. But does anyone think that Portland could compete in the upcoming season for a playoff spot EVEN IF they were in the east? I doubt many of us do.

I'm not claiming that the Knicks are in good shape, or that they're where we wish Portland was. I'm just saying that they're better now than Portland, they have more talent than Portland, and they have a team that's in better shape to contend in the future than Portland... and that they're more appealing to players than Portland.

Ed O.


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## #10

I'd take the Knicks' short term future over the Portland's in a second, Larry Brown really couldn't get anything out of a talented team.

It seems every draft, people get excited about all the prospects and want more picks. Every prospect in this draft has big question marks, as does Telfair, but he's shown progress each season. His shot has improved, he just needs to get better at finishing around the rim. Why don't we let our current prospects develop instead of replacing them with younger ones?

I don't understand why people are so high on Jack? He isn't great at anything...


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## ThatBlazerGuy

Man I am truly torn on this trade. On one hand, I have always loved Bassy. I believe he has not been given enough time and has the potential to do great things. 

On the other hand, having #4 and #7 is almost too enticing. If one of the top 5 players is avaliable at #7(Andrea, Adam, Gay, TT, LaMarcus), it would be really hard to pass this deal down.


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## mediocre man

ThatBlazerGuy said:


> Man I am truly torn on this trade. On one hand, I have always loved Bassy. I believe he has not been given enough time and has the potential to do great things.
> 
> On the other hand, having #4 and #7 is almost too enticing. If one of the top 5 players is avaliable at #7(Andrea, Adam, Gay, TT, LaMarcus), it would be really hard to pass this deal down.


You really need to add Foye to this list.


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## cimalee

I will hate the blazers for this


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## ThatBlazerGuy

Ya, I guess a backcourt of Jack and Foyle could work. Small, but very tough mentally and physically. Both good defenders, and both are somewhat vocal. Heck, I kinda like it. If the other 5 guys, who I simply believe are better prospects, are gone and we get #7 Foyle could be a real option.


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## Blazer Freak

ThatBlazerGuy said:


> Ya, I guess a backcourt of Jack and Foyle could work. Small, but very tough mentally and physically. Both good defenders, and both are somewhat vocal. Heck, I kinda like it. If the other 5 guys, who I simply believe are better prospects, are gone and we get #7 Foyle could be a real option.


It's Foye.


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## Oldmangrouch

Not to be abrasive, but what is the big deal about Foye?

Like Brewer, Foye is reputed to be more of a slasher than a pure shooter. (or is that "shotter"?)

Brewer is 4" taller, is a superior ball handler/passer, and has the tools to be a terrific defender. Foye has "Juan Dixon" written all over him.


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## Utherhimo

i would love to get morrison/bargnani aldridge and brewer


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## LameR

RoseCity said:


> - This draft is NOT weak. It's very deep in fact. How are people stupid enough to say it's a weak draft yet support Telfair as a good prospect? For one, you will not know how good this draft will be for 5 years.. two, might be no superstars in this draft but very productive, borderline all-stars are overflowing from this group. Yet supporting Telfair who has done NOTHING!


And what exactly have any of these "borderline all-stars" done in the NBA. Absolutely *NOTHING!P* Telfair has shown that he at least belongs on a roster, and has shown flashes of brillance that lead some people to believe that he can be a great PG in this league at some point in time.



oldmangrouch said:


> Foye has "Juan Dixon" written all over him.


He's also been compared to D-Wade. Wade? Dixon? Worse? Who knows? He could end up becoming a premier player in the league for all we know. Wade wasn't supposed to be anything more than slightly above average, but look at him. Only time will tell. 




ThatBlazerGuy said:


> Man I am truly torn on this trade. On one hand, I have always loved Bassy. I believe he has not been given enough time and has the potential to do great things.
> 
> On the other hand, having #4 and #7 is almost too enticing. If one of the top 5 players is avaliable at #7(Andrea, Adam, Gay, TT, LaMarcus), it would be really hard to pass this deal down.


That's pretty much exactly how I feel (although I differ from you slightly in my opinions of those 5 players.


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## zagsfan20

Foye reminds me a lot of Ben Gordan.


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## MARIS61

I see no upside here for Portland.

We throw away our best PG, (and our only excuse for not taking Paul last year,) and get in return a former player we never used much who is now facing a career-ending injury and has 2 players ahead of him in the lineup.

Anyone we get at 7 will be a project for years, and most importantly we don't get rid of Miles or Dixon.

Huge step backward with no positive side at all.


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## tlong

The Blazers *MUST * do this deal if it's available. Jarret Jack has more upside than Telfair and they will get a player better than Telfair with the #7 pick anyway. It's a no-brainer, which also makes me think it's not really being offered.


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## Kmurph

> The Blazers MUST do this deal if it's available. Jarret Jack has more upside than Telfair and they will get a player better than Telfair with the #7 pick anyway.


Both of those points are 100% b.s.

Jack more potential than Telfair...I'd love to see your proof of that...Or is all you got the overplayed height difference?


typical............


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## chromekilla

the only way we do this is if gay morrison and aldridge is available.If not keep telfair he is better then alot of people in the draft.


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## Fork

Blazer Freak said:


> It's Foye.


Maybe he meant Adonal Foyle. Good size for a SG. Needs to improve his ball handling skills.


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## chromekilla

If we wanted another pick we could try 31,30 to seattle for 10?They want to move out of the first round becuase they dont have a need.


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## Fork

chromekilla said:


> If we wanted another pick we could try 31,30 to seattle for 10?They want to move out of the first round becuase they dont have a need.


That's seems like a pretty bad deal for Seattle though. If they trade the #10 pick, I'd think they could get more value than that.

Then again, Phoenix traded the #7 pick (Luol Deng) for Jackson Vroman (or is it Vroman Jackson,) a late first round pick and cash a couple years back. So...maybe.


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## Blazer Maven

chromekilla said:


> the only way we do this is if gay morrison and aldridge is available.If not keep telfair he is better then alot of people in the draft.


Options at 7:

Gay (improvement over ST)
Foye (improvement over ST)
O'Bryant (questionable)
Brewer (questionable, provides perimeter defense, a +)
S. Williams (improvement over ST)

Telfair has great potential, but the Blazers have Blake/Jack and the point and if they can shore up other problem areas (defense/rebounding) then do the deal.


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## chromekilla

If we can get 3 picks and get foye at 10 that would be [office space] really super.[office space],I would be really excited about aldridge gay or morrison and foye.I wouldnt mind getting rid of telfair for that.


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## Rip City Road Blocker

Blazer Maven said:


> Options at 7:
> 
> Gay (improvement over ST)
> Foye (improvement over ST)
> O'Bryant (questionable)
> Brewer (questionable, provides perimeter defense, a +)
> S. Williams (improvement over ST)
> 
> Telfair has great potential, but the Blazers have Blake/Jack and the point and if they can shore up other problem areas (defense/rebounding) then do the deal.


I agree, and I know Telfair has potential, but I don't think he's going to reach it under Nate. A little to conservative about how Telfair should play, he looked pretty far out of his comfort style. Jack seemed to fit the system better, and as much as I like Telfair I think Jack wil;l be better for the Blazers. 

I still think the trade has to be dependent on getting aldridge and either Morrison or Gay, if one of those 2 combos doesn't happen, I wouldn't do it.


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## Blazer Ringbearer

Wasn't the deadline 2pm ET to swap picks before the draft? Thought I read that somewhere...

That doesn't mean that they couldn't do it during though.


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## kaydow

Blazer Ringbearer said:


> Wasn't the deadline 2pm ET to swap picks before the draft? Thought I read that somewhere...
> 
> That doesn't mean that they couldn't do it during though.


Like what the Blazers did with Denver last year (J. Jack) Boston picks our guy at #7 and trade is made after the fact. Boston would most likely want to see who's there at #7 before they agree to anything.


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## tlong

Kmurph said:


> Both of those points are 100% b.s.
> 
> Jack more potential than Telfair...I'd love to see your proof of that...Or is all you got the overplayed height difference?
> 
> 
> typical............



You need to put down your High School All America magazines and look at the facts. Telfair is an undersized point guard that can't shoot. Flashy passes mean nothing if they don't help your team win. Jack has good size for a PG, is an excellent defender, and according to Nate was one of the most consistent players on the team this past season. He was also playing on a bum ankle which was recently surgically corrected. Telfair is all hype and was picked (stupidly) at #13. The #7 pick this year should be better than the #13 pick two years ago.


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## thaKEAF

If this trade goes through Boston is retarded and Portland's youth movement will get a big boost.


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## LameR

tlong said:


> Jarret Jack has more upside than Telfair and they will get a player better than Telfair with the #7 pick anyway.


I don't know if I agree with that...


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