# I'm worried about the Draft



## Mateo

If karma is on our side McHale will get fired in December/January and Hoiberg will be promoted to lead GM. If that happens we have some tough choices to make as far as the draft goes.

Our biggest weakness right now is the gaping hole at center. Now, I've said for a while that Jefferson is perfectly capable of playing there, but the team doesn't seem to agree. Should we draft DeAndre Jordan? He can play center.

On the other hand, we seem to be tanking by playing our crappy veterans and not the young guys (specifically Smith, Green, and Brewer). So unless karma goes against us (which only happens if McHale stays as GM), we're going to be in the Derrick Rose / Michael Beasley discussion.

Can we really pass up on a special talent like Rose to feel a "need" at center.... one that we don't really "need" that much since already have Jefferson. Here's a scenario I like at the trading deadline:

Foye comes back in December and - since his only competition is Telfair and Jaric - he puts up decent enough numbers. At the trading deadline we use him as bait for a team with a need at PG.... I'm thinking the Atlanta Hawks who are loaded at the SF position but have nothing much at PG. We pawn off Foye for Josh Childress (who's going to be getting few minutes with the emergence of Marvin Williams). Then we draft Rose and have a future lineup of:

Rose / Telfair
McCants / Green
Childress / Brewer / Gomes
Smith / Gomes / Jefferson
Jefferson / gaping hole

Thoughts?


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## Avalanche

If we get a top 3 pick its Beasley/Mayo/Rose ... yes we are thin (empty) at center but those three are the clear top talents as far as im concerned.

Jefferson seems to struggle a bit at center, but a Beasley/Jefferson Front court with Smith backing them up would definately be worth a try.

As would a main 3 guard rotation of Foye/Mccants and either Mayo or Rose.

Outside of a top 3 pick i think we should draft a true center like hibbert, Jordan etc


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## Mateo

I'm not touching Mayo with a 10 foot pole. He's Isiah Rider redux. I'm not going through that again.


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## bruno34115

WTF? Foye for Josh Childress? No thank you man.


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## Mateo

bruno34115 said:


> WTF? Foye for Josh Childress? No thank you man.


We need another wing, and have a strong chance in drafting a superior PG this summer.

Foye hasn't done enough so far to warrant anything better than Childress (who's an underrated player).


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## moss_is_1

Man, I'm confused about what I want in this draft..
Rose is looking like the best, and Bringing Foye off the bench or maybe trying to trade him for a Center, if Telfair can play well.
PG-Rose-Telfair-Jaric
SG-McCants-Green-Jaric
SF-Brewer-Gomes-Green
PF-Jeffeson-Smith-Walker
C-?? Idk who we could get in a trade for foye. 
OR we still have the Heats pick if they make the playoffs, so we could get some sort of sg-sf tweener to play since the coaches don't seem too high on green, or another center since ratliff might some cheap to play with a contender and madesen and doleac blow.


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## moss_is_1

Mateo said:


> We need another wing, and have a strong chance in drafting a superior PG this summer.
> 
> Foye hasn't done enough so far to warrant anything better than Childress (who's an underrated player).


I don't think we really need another wing yet, we need a center more-so than a wing. Buckner is decent for us till his contract is up and then we will have some cap to sign a nice player.


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## Mateo

That's why I had us trading him for a wing, I don't think any team would give up a young, good, center for him. But a wing is possible, especially with how loaded the Hawks are at that position.


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## dropkickmeltinjohns

I say the wolves will be picking 4th or so. The league won't want them in the top tier drafting slots. I see Mchale taking Beasley at least. OJ Mayo I also wouldn't want to the guy who said that. He is gonna be Marbury 2. 
I say best bets for Wolves in order:

#1, Derrick Rose
#2, Eric Gordon
#3, Deandre Jordan
#4, Michael Beasley
#5, Roy Hibbert

How much you wanna bet Mchale picks Hibbert over one of these other guys if he gets pick 4 or even pick 3!


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## KG4MVP2

We need to get Beasley even if that means trading up or w/e if we dont get him or rose i will be mad!!:azdaja::rant::curse::mad2::upset::devil2::soapbox::evil:nfire::upset:


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## luther

dropkickmeltinjohns said:


> I say the wolves will be picking 4th or so. The league won't want them in the top tier drafting slots.


The league conspiracy theories have got to go. I mean, please... 

As for the Wolves' draft, I'm a little nervous, but no more so than every year. And it's far too early to be worried about who fits in where, considering we have yet to see this young team play a single game all together. (No Foye, Green has missed a lot of time, Brewer's minutes have been spotty lately after his oversleeping discipline the other day, McCants missed time, Telfair missed time, etc.)

If anything, I'm optimistic that there are likely to be good players at every position from which to choose, so no matter what we need to do, we ought to have a decent option. 

(If we have a top three pick, though, I'm partial to Derrick Rose or DeAndre Jordan. The former gives the team the true top-level PG it does not have (sorry, Bassy) and the latter offers a potential defensive-minded center who can run with the other guys, and whose defensive orientation shouldn't get in the way of Jefferson's post offense.)


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## The King of the World

moss_is_1 said:


> Buckner is decent for us till his contract is up and then we will have some cap to sign a nice player.


The problem with that is that no one will want to sign with us. You remember how no free agents would take Chicago's money while Jerry Krause was still GM (post-MJ era, of course)? No one is going to sign with Minny while McHale is still there, showing little interest in building a contender.


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## luther

The King of the World said:


> The problem with that is that no one will want to sign with us. You remember how no free agents would take Chicago's money while Jerry Krause was still GM (post-MJ era, of course)? No one is going to sign with Minny while McHale is still there, showing little interest in building a contender.


This is very true. And worse, I don't think it's just a McHale thing. It's a cold-weather state with a mid-sized market. We couldn't draw free agents of note to play alongside Kevin Garnett, so to think we can do so without him is probably overly optimistic.

That's my problem with just hording cap space. Historically around the league, unless you're an LA team, a Florida team or NY, it's only moderately valuable. Smaller-market teams still end up greatly overpaying players just to get them to sign. The way to build this team is going to have to be primarily through the draft and trades, with free agents being signed more on a limited--to fill strategic needs--basis (i.e., a shooter, a backup big, etc.). To do that, we need to manage the cap and avoid those terrible situations like the past few years, but we don't need to get $20 million in cap room only to find all we can do is sign second- or third-tier players with it. (Can't you just see McHale and Taylor giving a 5-year, $50 million deal to the likes of JR Smith?)


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## bruno34115

It's way too early to be worried about the draft. We will be in a position to land a top 3 pick and if the lottery does what it's supposed to do, we will get a top 3 pick. With that said I think there are a lot of studs in this draft. The unfortunate thing for us is that we already are loaded at the positions that are looking strong in the draft (combo guard). Hopefully we can land Beasley.


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## luther

bruno34115 said:


> Hopefully we can land Beasley.


The problem with that would be that he projects as a 4/3 in the pros, meaning he's up against Al Jefferson, Corey Brewer and Ryan Gomes as alleged building blocks for the future. That isn't to say that he couldn't start alongside Jefferson and push Brewer and Gomes to the bench (where at least Gomes probably belongs anyway), but it wouldn't plug our gaping holes: it's a center or a true point I think we need. 

So I'd lean toward Derrick Rose or DeAndre Jordan, if one is available.


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## Mateo

bruno34115 said:


> It's way too early to be worried about the draft. We will be in a position to land a top 3 pick and if the lottery does what it's supposed to do, we will get a top 3 pick. With that said I think there are a lot of studs in this draft. The unfortunate thing for us is that we already are loaded at the positions that are looking strong in the draft (combo guard). Hopefully we can land Beasley.


How are we loaded at combo guard? We don't any _good_ PGs. We have a couple of (so far) decent ones. I'm not passing on a stud combo PG just because we already have Foye and Telfair.

In truth, we aren't loaded at any position. We come the closest at PF, but even then I'd gladly draft Beasley if he's the best player available. Move Jefferson to center and have a Beasley/Jefferson frontcourt with Smith coming off the bench.


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## luther

Mateo said:


> Move Jefferson to center and have a Beasley/Jefferson frontcourt with Smith coming off the bench.


That would be a lot of fun, but we'd definitely need a good PG then, to maximize their uptempo potential. Telfair might be that guy, in that he's a real PG and is quick. But I'd like to turn the keys over to someone who's averaged more than 3.6 apg so far in his career, and who didn't hover around a 2:1 A/TO ratio.

Still, a Telfair-McCants-Brewer-Beasley-Jefferson with Foye as backup to both Gs and Smith as backup post would potentially be a lot of fun.

I'm still leaning toward Rose or Jordan. But of course it's not up to me anyway, so I can lean as far in any direction as I want.


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## socco

Mateo said:


> We need another wing, and have a strong chance in drafting a superior PG this summer.
> 
> Foye hasn't done enough so far to warrant anything better than Childress (who's an underrated player).


They wouldn't give up Foye for Iverson. I'm not saying Foye has proven much of anything, but there's zero chance the Wolves would do a deal like that.

As for the draft, personally I'm not too worried about it yet. Way too far away for me to be thinking about it. The one thing I'll say is that I'm a huge Rose fan.


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## bruno34115

Mateo said:


> How are we loaded at combo guard? We don't any _good_ PGs. We have a couple of (so far) decent ones. I'm not passing on a stud combo PG just because we already have Foye and Telfair.
> 
> In truth, we aren't loaded at any position. We come the closest at PF, but even then I'd gladly draft Beasley if he's the best player available. Move Jefferson to center and have a Beasley/Jefferson frontcourt with Smith coming off the bench.


Well what would be the point of drafting Eric Gordon, OJ Mayo when we have 2 of our 3 best players already having similar playing styles.


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## E.H. Munro

luther said:


> The problem with that would be that he projects as a 4/3 in the pros, meaning he's up against Al Jefferson, Corey Brewer and Ryan Gomes as alleged building blocks for the future. That isn't to say that he couldn't start alongside Jefferson and push Brewer and Gomes to the bench (where at least Gomes probably belongs anyway), but it wouldn't plug our gaping holes: it's a center or a true point I think we need.
> 
> So I'd lean toward Derrick Rose or DeAndre Jordan, if one is available.


To be brutally frank, I don't think that you guys will re-sign Gomes this summer, and probably shouldn't. He just isn't very good, and last year (here in Boston) was a spoiled little whiner with a sense of entitlement. It's like he convinced himself that he was playing for the Mavericks or something. He's one of those guys that could be a useful roleplayer if he knew his place in the NBA and worked his *** off to keep it, but he's come down with a severe case of Szczerbiak's Syndrome.


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## luther

ehmunro said:


> To be brutally frank, I don't think that you guys will re-sign Gomes this summer


They've publicly discussed it as a priority. Since the trade, the team has frequently said they plan to build around the "young core," and named Jefferson, Foye, McCants, Brewer and Gomes.

I think he's fine--definitely a nice guy to have. But if he wants anything near the midlevel I'd let him walk.


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## Mateo

Gomes had 1 pretty good year when he was given heavy playing time. He hasn't been good for us this year. I think they're playing him out of position at the 3. I don't think he has a future here just because he's not a good enough 3 and there are better players at the 4 already. I'd trade him at the deadline.


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## Ruff Draft

I could probably find out if I wasn't soo lazy, but what picks do we own in this draft?


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## luther

Ruff Draft said:


> I could probably find out if I wasn't soo lazy, but what picks do we own in this draft?


We don't know yet. We get to keep the one we eventually have to send to the LA Clippers from the Cassell/Jaric deal, conditionally, but I don't recall the protection for this season. Last year it was top 10 protected, so I'd assume it's less--top 5 or something, maybe?

Then if Miami makes the playoffs, we get their first-rounder in the Davis/Blount for Walker deal.


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## The King of the World

luther said:


> This is very true. And worse, I don't think it's just a McHale thing. It's a cold-weather state with a mid-sized market. We couldn't draw free agents of note to play alongside Kevin Garnett, so to think we can do so without him is probably overly optimistic.
> 
> That's my problem with just hording cap space. Historically around the league, unless you're an LA team, a Florida team or NY, it's only moderately valuable. Smaller-market teams still end up greatly overpaying players just to get them to sign. The way to build this team is going to have to be primarily through the draft and trades, with free agents being signed more on a limited--to fill strategic needs--basis (i.e., a shooter, a backup big, etc.). To do that, we need to manage the cap and avoid those terrible situations like the past few years, but we don't need to get $20 million in cap room only to find all we can do is sign second- or third-tier players with it. (Can't you just see McHale and Taylor giving a 5-year, $50 million deal to the likes of JR Smith?)


Good post.


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## Ruff Draft

Because of my love for Randy Foye, and the hope he can run this team. I would pick Beasley and DeAndre Jordan.


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## Avalanche

Well its looking more and more like we will end up in a top 5 position, which is exactly what we need now.... a franchise guy.

Personally i think Beasley is the stud of the draft, or thats what its looking like... then Mayo/Rose, and other than that we should be looking big as ive said, so Hibbert, Jordan etc all come into the equation.


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## sheefo13

I think going with a guy like Rose would be the best option. A combo guard backcourt would be amazing. Nap a center via the MIA pick or Free Agency in the future... Or you have Jefferson at C and smith at PF which has been working for the most part.


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## luther

^ the problem with picking up a center in free agency is that, even compared to the always inflated free agent market, they are always vastly overpaid. It's the only position where any production whatsoever gets you the full midlevel and you go up quickly from there. Yeah, we might have some cap room, but couldn't you just imagine DeSagana Diop getting a 5-year, $40 million contract? 

Sadly, I can. And that's why I hesitate to chase centers on the market, especially when we're a team that will struggle to attract free agents unless we overpay, considering we're a small-market, cold-weather, terrible team.


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## Ruff Draft

I would love Rose. However neither he or Foye can shoot all too well. Picking Mayo would bury McCants. Beasley!


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## Avalanche

its just BPA for us because realistically we dont have any position totally set... Foye could play either Point or SG depending on who hes playing with, same with Jefferson at the 4/5.

Getting the number 1 pick we would have to hope that someone had put themselves head and shoulders above the competition regardless of his position.
if we end up 5-10 i would like to pick up a center


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## JuX

I've noticed about this team's drafting ability. Over the last 3 years, they drafted 3 first round picks right out of college. Ok, 2nd rounders included but that's not too important, anyway. That is the total of 7 players, which we traded two away (Roy and Bobby Jones. Bracey Wright is no longer with the team and Loukas Moadkashfklashfklshfjfalkdfj has yet played for us).

2 of last 3 first round picks were from the national championship teams (North Carolina & Florida) the year they got drafted. One had as much success in his senior year as his whole year in Villanova. I mean, the team needs to start overlooking the players' and their successes in college basketball to where their true potentials and abilities are laying down. That could be the reason why they got drafted as high?

Never meant to bash anything against those picks, but none of all are immediate impact to this team. Just my two cents.


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## luther

Whether it's from some philosophical bent to believe in players who have had success in college or something else (like the much joked-about lack of scouting), there is little doubt that the Wolves have favored players who had big success in college. There are exceptions, but generally, that has been their method. (The Bobcats have done the same thing.) In some regards, I like that strategy. I don't want some 6-11 athlete just because he's 6-11 and an athlete. I want basketball players. But on the other hand, not every great or potentially great player was at Duke, UNC, etc. And maybe McHale needs to get expanded cable, beyond just the Big Ten Network.


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## JuX

And the purpose of drafting Chris Richard? To make Corey Brewer feel home as much as possible?

Bobcats, that's true. Okafor, Felton, Morrison, May, and some names that I might missed out. Successful teams, and some of them over hyped. Also, I think it has something to do with the Carolina connection.


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## luther

JuX said:


> And the purpose of drafting Chris Richard?


Well, that's where I stray from the idea. I think their idea is that he was a player who would have had better success elsewhere (probably true) but was instead at a winning program, which will help him and the team here (debatable).


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## Mateo

I definitely think Richard was only drafted to make Brewer feel better. We could have gotten him in free agency, because no way was anyone else going to draft him, but they were probably scared that he'd choose another team. Basically it was a wasted pick.

I agree with JuX here. The strategy _is_ to draft high profile college players, period. It's not working though. None of these guys have wound up being the "best player available" in retrospect. Most of our 2nd rounders were complete wastes (Smith was just a lucky pick, I'm sure). Our guys are decent but their upside doesn't go much beyond "solid player", and we don't have enough talent right now. We need more stars.


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## wiim

Cross-post on the rake comments:

As for the need vs talent debate for our 1st round pick. Last year I read an interesting article on ESPN. Some coaches use a tier system.

Basicly, you first group the people in tiers according to talent. People that are about the same level.

In last year's draft, it would have been something like this. Keep in mind, not everyone had the same tiers...

Tier 1: Oden, Durant
Tier 2: Horford, Conley
Tier 3: Wright, Brewer, Noah, ...

Then, inside each tier you order by need. So say you got the 3rd pick and you have a huge need a PG.

First rule, you never pick from tier 2 when someone from tier 1 is still on the board, same goes for 3 and 2, etc...

So If you've got the 3rd pick and need a PG. Oden and noah get picked 1 and 2 > you go for durant even though you need a PG, the tier system makes sure you don't reach for need with conley.

Same situation but now oden and durant get drafted one and two. Even though Horford might be slight "better" than conley. Because they are in the same talent tier you pick conley because you need a PG.

Off course the system isn't perfect and a lot depends on who you decide to put together.

Ok now I got that explained... I also think you put a little more weight on talent in the 1st round and a lot more in need in the 2nd. Since the difference in talent tends to be mucht smaller between the 2nd round players... That's why I think we should defenitly have been able to grab a big in last years second round ... anyway



If I would have to make tiers now from what I've read and seen (only seen Rose and Gordon play in the top talents category) it would be.

Tier 1: beasly
Tier 2: rose, gordon ... maybe add mayo, but I wouldn't
Tier3: mayo, jordan

So if we get pick 1, we take beasly and fill a need with whatever picks we can get.

If we get pick 2, we take rose if he's there, if he isn't, beasly (for instance if the knicks get pick nr1.. might happen they pick rose first)

if we get pick 3, and both rose and beasly are gone it gets tricky. The system says we don't pick in tier 3 when tier 2 is available. So the system says pick gordon, though if you want a good center as much as I do you might have the feeling you want to take jordan. Though I would trust the system and not take the risc of regretting passing on gordon later. Especially after seeing him play .. the guy is TALENTED.
Also, if we somehow get a mid 1st rounder (with our trade exception and all complicated stuff), there are plenty of good centers to be had there.. Riek, thabeet (whom I now saw play against ND and would defenitly like to pair with Jefferson!) ...

If we have pick 4, we obviously again pick gordon if he's there, if he isn't you can choose between mayo and jordan. We obviously pick jordan.


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## Ruff Draft

It sound like Philadelphia wants to clean house, and Iggy is not happy.

Why not offer Green/Theo/#1 for Iggy & Dalembert? That'd give us a stuf wing player, and a greta partner next to Al.


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## JuX

Probably not since Iggy does not want to be with a losing team, which we are.


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## Ruff Draft

We have a better future than Philly though! One can dream...


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## Ruff Draft

The more I think about it the less I think we want Beasley. He comes off to me as a Zach Randolph, and we already have an offensive dynamo at the 4. I'd much rather prefer one of the wing players.


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## Avalanche

I know im in the vast minority but i still want Mayo


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## Flanders

Foye for Childress?

How has this board gotten so mad?


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## Avalanche

Not even Mchale could be fooled into Foye for Childress


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## croco

It wouldn't be atrocious at all, Childress is actually pretty solid and underrated. Of course Foye hasn't played this year so far, but he would have to play a lot better to make this deal unfair.


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## Avalanche

No seriously its a terrible deal, Foye is the second best player on this team.... he's been forgotten because of his injury, but he is and will be a far better player then childress


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## croco

Avalanche said:


> No seriously its a terrible deal, *Foye is the second best player on this team*.... he's been forgotten because of his injury, but he is and will be a far better player then childress


That's not saying much unfortunately. I'm not really a big fan of Foye, he doesn't have a position and is already relatively old and he is only a few months younger than Childress.


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## JuX

I can't say anything in favor of Foye. He has yet played and determine how great he will be from past season or whatnot.

Until then, just say no to the Childress/Foye deal.


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## wiim

don't underestimate foye. He's a versatile player that can slash, shoot, penetrate & dish .. he's worth the wait; no doubt...


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## Avalanche

Agreed, it may even take til the end of the season before people start realizing it, because he'll start putting up the 'pretty' stats.... but he is a legit player, and huge part of this teams future


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## moss_is_1

Avalanche said:


> I know im in the vast minority but i still want Mayo


I'm with you, he's amazing, he has the most talent of anyone I think. Just a bit of a trouble maker. He would give us a great scoring threat on the perimeter. He can play point and have Foye/McCants at the 2 with the other coming off the bench. All 3 can have time at the point, McCants would be a little iffy though.


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## moss_is_1

Ruff Draft said:


> I would love Rose. However neither he or Foye can shoot all too well. Picking Mayo would bury McCants. Beasley!


Foye is a pretty good shooter, Rose is pretty streaky. If We picked Mayo then we could have him play some point and Foye some point and Sg. Then McCants can play both too or atleast thats what it said when he came out, and this year he has shown that he can run the offense when he wants to.


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## Avalanche

I just think Mayo has the potential to be the Kobe/Wade/Tmac level guard (obviously i dont expect that sort of player out of anyone straight from the draft), this team needs some identity, some media attention, Foye/Mayo in the back court working with Jefferson would give us 3 very good scorers, and would allow Mccants to work in an off the bench, 6th man type role.


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