# Who to trade:Davis or Darius?



## Louie (Jun 13, 2002)

Wanted to guage who you guys think should be the one dealt to de-crowd the new Cleveland backcourt. I voted Davis.


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## Mongolmike (Jun 11, 2002)

*...*

I voted Miles.... Miles is over-paid and over-valued for his PRODUCTION.

Davis has a decent salary which is dwarfed by his value....

meaning, you get a lot more bang for the buck with Ricky than Darius. I'm not sure Darius's game will ever improve, Ricky has shown what he can do when given the green light. Both had the same opportunity to be a team leader last year, and Miles disappeared.

Lastly, this is obvious speculation on my part, and can never be proven, but, going on last year's performances and the total career of both players to this point, you can not convince me that Clev could get more in a trade for Darius than you could for Ricky. In other words, if Clev offered Ricky to....let's say Memphis, they could ask for and get more for Ricky than they could if they offered Darius to Memphis. Ricky is worth more to Clev than Darius is.


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## TheBowski (Jun 12, 2002)

i voted miles. he is worthless to cleveland. he doesn't want to be here, so maybe he'll thrive somewhere else, but i doubt it. anyway, i think there are 2 or 3 threads going now where i speak my mind on this subject, so there is no need for me to explain myself again here.


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## Ben1 (May 20, 2003)

If i had da choice, i would trade both away!

To choose only one, it has to be Miles.. he ain't do jack**** for Cavs at all so he shld leave..


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## jokeaward (May 22, 2003)

Neither one has much of a good attitude from what I hear, but the more appealing trade for other treams is Davis. He looks like he has potential but I personally see him not doing very well, so now is the time to trade him.

Green-light: Exactly. Cleveland (is it safe to say Van Gundy?) will probably want to work more on James, but also Wagner. Davis's shot count will be cut, and he might not handle it well. Someone probably won't like Davis's shot-count, be it the fans or Davis. 

Miles can be disposed of or be a luke-warm bench player.


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## TMOD (Oct 12, 2002)

I voted for Davis; Miles fits better to form a wing trio of he, Wagner, and James, should they all pan out, and if I'm Cleveland, I've got my go-to guys in The Big Z, and Lebron, with Juanny Wags filling up the scoring column too, probably. I'd say they could get more for Ricky, and that would probably be better for them at this point.


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## The OUTLAW (Jun 13, 2002)

I wonder how many of these folks are actually Cavs fans? Well I think that while Davis has the greater trade value it is because Davis is the better player right now for the Cavs so I'd have to keep Davis and trade Miles.


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## shazha (Nov 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>The OUTLAW</b>!
> I wonder how many of these folks are actually Cavs fans? Well I think that while Davis has the greater trade value it is because Davis is the better player right now for the Cavs so I'd have to keep Davis and trade Miles.


Exactly, most of these guys are bandwagon jumpers, who support king james not cleveland. Ive been a fan of cleveland and phoenix since the cavs kevin johnson days. I actually thought our team of derek anderson, brevin knight, zeek, cedric anderson, thunderdan, and gerald walace were actually promising. Gees i guessed wrong. lol

But now the cavs have hope again. My two fav players on the cavs are zeek, and wags. None of these guys were cavs fans while we painfully watched danny ferry spearhead our offense off the bench for all those years (10 i think). 

If somoene has to go it has to be ricky davis, i think his trade value is actually high at the moment, and miles sells tickets. So what if he doesn't want to be there. Bench him. He can play good defense, and a couple of dunks here and there, will egnite the crowd and his team. Cavs need pf. How bout trading boozer and ricky for kurt thomas and a future 1st rounder?


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## Wagner2 (Jun 29, 2002)

I've posted on this topic before so I won't make this long...

I don't see how the Cavs can trade Davis right now and leave Wagner and James to be their premier scorer (with Z). Davis has proven that he can score over 20 ppg for a season...James and Wagner have not. 

As for Miles, I've stated my disgust for him before, and if we could get an offer for him then great. But that said, we could keep him a a 6th/7th man and see if he has improved at all (although not likely). 

If we had to trade one, I'd lose Miles, but this post makes it seem as though one of them has to be traded. They don't compete for minutes and you'll see Miles and Davis on the floor at the same time, so it is not a neccesity to trade either of them at this time. I think we should trade Davis after the 03/04 and leave the team to a good PG, Wagner, James, Boozer, and Illgauskas.


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## ***Finch*** (Feb 17, 2003)

darius...he could always come to Chicago be back in his home state...


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## TMOD (Oct 12, 2002)

People are voicing their distaste for Darius Miles...if you trade Davis, his role increases, and with James and Wagner on the floor, you'll be running A LOT. Miles will thrive in that type of play (like he did on the Clippers) and _his_ trade value goes nowhere but up if he plays decently at all.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>TMOD</b>!
> People are voicing their distaste for Darius Miles...if you trade Davis, his role increases, and with James and Wagner on the floor, you'll be running A LOT. Miles will thrive in that type of play (like he did on the Clippers) and _his_ trade value goes nowhere but up if he plays decently at all.


This is a good point (if Miles is in shape and his knee is ok). However, I still vote for Miles to go. Davis is quick and can run too. 

The cons with Miles (immature, lazy, hurt, overweight) just seem to outweigh the cons with Davis (immature). Players are immature when they're young, but most of them grow out of it and ultimately would give up some glory to achieve the greater glory of winning. I think Davis will ultimately get it.


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## jokeaward (May 22, 2003)

Where does it say you have to be a true Cavs fan to give your opinion?

I'll have you know I like Cleveland because of Smush Parker. :yes: 

Okay, it's LeBron. W/o the #1 pick they probably wouldn't get in the EAST playoffs for a while.


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## tdizzle (Apr 12, 2003)

If I was Cavs ownership I wouldnt let the future of my franchise, LeBron James, get anywhere near Ricky Davis. Not because of his play but his attitude and team troubles. I definitely think he can bring down the team. Also I think Darius Miles can still be a very good player for the Cavs. I myself am a Hawks fan, but I was disapointed in the way Miles played last year as well. I really thought it was going to be his "break out" season, but I still think he has quite a bit of potential and with the right coach hopefully he can turn his play around. Wish the Cavs the best they sure are going to be interesting to watch this year.

Todd


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## Tom (Jul 15, 2002)

*I VOTED MILES, BUT*

James could be his Q and peek his interest...in this case he would play to his abilities. If i see any indication that he will play hard...keep him.


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## Mongolmike (Jun 11, 2002)

*that's*

an interesting point Tom.... Darius could certainly benefit from LBJ's passing.... and I did read that LBJ and Darius had some degree of friendship. 

Boy, I sure would love to see Darius EXPLODE, and Ricky mature, and Wagner find his role, and LBJ meet some of his expectation! Works for me!


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## Tom (Jul 15, 2002)

*Re: that's*



> Originally posted by <b>Mongolmike</b>!
> an interesting point Tom.... Darius could certainly benefit from LBJ's passing.... and I did read that LBJ and Darius had some degree of friendship.
> 
> Boy, I sure would love to see Darius EXPLODE, and Ricky mature, and Wagner find his role, and LBJ meet some of his expectation! Works for me!



If you look at the talent and could be factor alone the cavs have a future. that team has some offense....whether they can play defense and toghther is another story. I know i will be watching fox alot next year.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

I say trade 'em both.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

i kind of want the cavs to hang onto both of these guys to see what the options are, who can play well with who, etc.

however:

1) there's an obvious glut of 2s and 3s and a severe shortage of 1s and 4s. a trade is probably necessary. the new coach is going to want a real point guard at the very least. FA or trade?

2) what is the chemistry going to be like with all of these phenoms? darius doesn't seem like he demands the ball (but he hasn't been effective anyways) but lebron and co need another player to actually make shots. wagner isn't proven (in the least) so is ricky the guy to stay?

3) do the cavs ever want to run lebron or wagner as a "real" PG? if they do, the lineup cominations of wagner, lebron, davis, and miles could be lethal.

4) has davis' trade value peaked? is miles worth trading with his value so low? i think it's a little ridiculous to think that GMs wouldn't want davis because of the tripdub incident- when you're playing on a joke team (which this team is going to cease to be very quickly here) you make joke plays. also, i think that GMs are still hopeful that miles could turn it around, especially at the right price. he has been putting on good size and now it's time for him to learn the game.



all in all i'd have to say trade miles (by far). he's not needed on this team and probably won't get that much playing time next season. as much as miles might like to play with lebron he is not going to shine (like a star) on this team and probably won't resign when his contract is up. with davis and lebron you really do have the most exciting backcourt in the league- the only two players (as far as i know) to go through the legs and dunk in an organized game for crying out loud. davis will be looking for a fresh start with this rejuvenated team and i don't expect him to resent lebron's presence. lebron might just turn him into a poster boy with all the highlights they're going to be featured in. 

where to trade miles? i'm still intrigued by a toronto trade but i don't think they'd do it if they can't resign miles. would cavs fans do a miles + second rounder (maybe?) for alvin williams?


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## Im The One (Sep 1, 2002)

If you had to, you would have to trade Davis because youll get next to nothing for Miles at this moment. I say you keep both for now though, there's no need to be in a rush and you need all the help you can get.

I would love to see Miles back on the Clippers. How about for Keyon and a future 1st rounder.


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## Mongolmike (Jun 11, 2002)

*If they was asking me....*

I would do either trade:

SkywalkerAC's Miles/2nd for A WIll

and 

I'm the One's Miles for Keyon and a future 1st

Either is fine, but I think the Alvin trade fills an obvious need, and the Keyon trade - I think the Clips are giving too much... so that is why it is good for Clev. I like Keyon's game (then we could get rid of Mihm), and a future 1st is always good.


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## TheBowski (Jun 12, 2002)

How can we get rid of mihm if we get keyon dooling??? He's a point guard. By the way, I'd do that trade in a second.


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## Mongolmike (Jun 11, 2002)

*oops*



> Originally posted by <b>TheBowski</b>!
> How can we get rid of mihm if we get keyon dooling??? He's a point guard. By the way, I'd do that trade in a second.


I was thinking of Keyon Clark... so, um.... errrr, oh yeah.... I meant we would KEEP Mihm..... yeah, THAT's what I meant. Guess my computer is broke


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## TheBowski (Jun 12, 2002)

Yeah, I hate it when my computer breaks and writes stuff that I didn't mean to say :yes: 

I'm just bustin your balls man, hope there's no hard feelings.


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## Mongolmike (Jun 11, 2002)

*LOL*



> Originally posted by <b>TheBowski</b>!
> Yeah, I hate it when my computer breaks and writes stuff that I didn't mean to say :yes:
> 
> I'm just bustin your balls man, hope there's no hard feelings.


Not in the least man, not in the least.... honestly, I'd rather be corrected, then sound stoopid! Also, this is just fun bb talk in a bb forum.... anyone who gets bent out of shape over a computer forum is prolly too tightly sprung in the real world too... and that ain't me. You're a good poster in my opinion, so bust away! I can dish, and I can handle!:yes:


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

BOTH! For a tall PG, and a veteran SF


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## gungho24 (May 31, 2003)

*trade both of them*

i think get rid of miles and davis and get a good point guard and a big body, what players does everyone have in mind to replace them?


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## BuhBuhBuhBen (May 26, 2003)

I have a question for devoted Cavs fans. As an outsider (Pistons fan), I wonder whether Ricky Davis is as selfish as he is made out to be. The media has really seemed to make him out to be a villain since the triple-double incident. I am hoping you guys can enlighten me with some of your input. He seems to be an immensely talented player who has youth and potential on his side.

The Pistons definitely need an immediate viable scoring option at the 3 spot, and Davis is intriguing to me. If he is a better person than most of us are led to believe, I think he's worth pursuing.


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## TheBowski (Jun 12, 2002)

Davis is not as selfish as he is made out to be. All anyone remembers about him from last season is that thing against utah. Devoted Cavs fans know that he is not as selfish as everyone seems to think he is. He averaged 5.5 assists per game last year, and this average was significantly higher towards the end of the year. He is a bit selfish, but i think with a mentor like Silas he could improve a lot.


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

Towards the end of the season, he came close to a triple double like 5 times, he started almost to become unselfish, and 5.5 asts isn't necessarly selfish to me.


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

BTW I'd love Miles on the raptors why not A.Williams for Miles straight up?


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## Mongolmike (Jun 11, 2002)

*I think*

that has been proposed before (by you?)... and I think most Cavs fans would go for it. But for the Raps, with VC and MoPete, does Miles come off the bench?


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

*Re: I think*



> Originally posted by <b>Mongolmike</b>!
> that has been proposed before (by you?)... and I think most Cavs fans would go for it. But for the Raps, with VC and MoPete, does Miles come off the bench?


Well Mo pete is better off the bench ,then when he starts and tries to take on the offensive role, but when he comes off the bench he already has the fllow of the game so I'd start Miles, but if he starts like last season..Mo petes in.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

*Re: I think*



> Originally posted by <b>Mongolmike</b>!
> that has been proposed before (by you?)... and I think most Cavs fans would go for it. But for the Raps, with VC and MoPete, does Miles come off the bench?


he might come off initially but obviously we would hope that he beats mo pete for the starting job before too long. 

i would like this trade but it puts us in real jeopardy as far as next season is concernced. kenny anderson would be a nice addition if that happened but he wasnt such a fan of the raps before...however, he might take a one year deal to increase his stock after a year of limited playing time.

Kenny/rafer
VC/jeffries
Miles/mo/murray
jyd/bradley
podkolzine (he rounds out my lineups more than bosh does)/AD

also, i expect us to be in the top 16 in next year's draft (that sounds a little pessimistic but 6th in east is pretty good) so we'll be adding another prospect to balance our development for future (championship) and current needs. ben gordon would be nice


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## BullFan16 (Jun 2, 2003)

Trade both. get another all star to mentor lebron. They r sum good bait. get some1 like mike finley. finly and lebron. watch out


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## CavsTalk (Jun 10, 2003)

Ricky is better than Finley in a year or two.

A lot cheaper.

No need to trade either.


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>CavsTalk</b>!
> Ricky is better than Finley in a year or two.
> 
> A lot cheaper.
> ...


Well you have your man in LeBron,and they play the same position./.


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## CavsTalk (Jun 10, 2003)

Last time I checked, Lebron didn't have a positon.

And #2, no they don't play the same spots. Ricky and Lebron can each easily play the two or the three, Ricky better suited for two Lebron three.

So yeah, that made a lot of sense seeing on how even with Finley, you would have the same _problem_, as you like to call it, especially since Finley (who is 30), has sub-par stats to Ricky (who is 24).


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## TyGuy (Apr 19, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>CavsTalk</b>!
> Last time I checked, Lebron didn't have a positon.
> 
> And #2, no they don't play the same spots. Ricky and Lebron can each easily play the two or the three, Ricky better suited for two Lebron three.
> ...


I don’t agree I think you’re confusing players of similar size as LeBron but not with similar skill. If you’re above 6-6 and have a hole in your game they like to stick you at three. Whether that be your ball handles i.e Shawn Marion or you don’t have a solid outside shot (richard jefferson) or your kinda iffy on both but posses great athleticism Gerald Wallace. A lot of teams stick true 2's at three also i.e Spreewell and some use there three to shutdown the opposing teams best offensive threat. To put it simply the small forward position is the most undefined position in the league and there are very few players that are true to that position. Predrag Stojacovoich and Rashard Lewis immediately come to mind because they are in the upper echelon of the league of small forwards in height but down quite have the weight to play 4 but posses all the strengths to thrive at three.

Just because James falls in to that category of mid range height for small forwards don’t stick him at that slot. This is part of what makes him so special because he’s 6-8 with shoes muscle bound with plenty of weight and has the quickness to blow by virtually any defender. Any time you can put an oversized guy at a smaller position is a good thing because its miss match city. Ok now that I’m done with my small forward rant I realize Cleveland is in a bind with there log jam. It’s really tough right now because Ricky’s value is high while Miles can potentially either be a great asset or his stock could raise tremendously. I also don’t understand why people like to put wags at 2 just because he played it a lot last year without much of a coach. This guy isn’t Allen Iverson you can't expect to have a mighty mouse backcourt and compete in this league, its way too much of a liability on defense. I think for now it would be best for Cleveland to pick up a veteran point guard via free agent or trade and have wags come off the bench as a scoring 1 ala Bobby Jackson (for now). Cleveland looks like a very bright city for once because they have a tremendous amount of young talent, a great coach with some cap money to boot, can't wait for next season to start!


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## Mongolmike (Jun 11, 2002)

*yep*

I agree with you Tyguy, LbJ can play multiple positions, and Wagner's height is a liability that will be almost impossible for him to overcome. Off the bench will be his future role with this team....


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