# What do the knicks need to be better ?



## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

in my opinion the list consists of 2 things, a pure shooter at either the 2/3 spot who can defend a bit and a 4 who 1. defends the lane 2. rebounds 3. spreads the defense with a jumpshot.

looking around the league I've come up with a list of players within reason (meaning no star players)
Josh Smith 
tyson chandler
mickael pietrus
shane battier
michael doleac
james jones
raef lafrentz

generally if you have a 4 who can rebound , defend the lane and shoot , you have a star player (KG,bosh Jermaine oneal duncan etc.) and frye has the ability and it would probably be wiser just to wait on him to develop and become that player, but if impatience and a need to boost the team now is needed there are some players i think with varying degrees of effectivenesswhich can help.

some are not starter material and are more the spot help type who can prevent a loss because teams are zoning up and the knicks currently lack truly consistent jumpshooters, some if they were knicks would likely start in some spots , but aquiring them would likely mean more has to be given.

josh smith plays the 4 on a part time basis avg. 13 points 8 boards 3 assists 1.6 st. and 2.7 blocks, he is young (turned 21 last month ) has a decent albeit inconsistent jumpshot with 3 point range that should get better with time.

tyson chandler is one of the league's best lane defenders and rebounders had 7 blocks tonight with 15 boards...but is a reluctant jumpshooter from 15 feet.

mickael pietrus is an excellent defender and a very good shooter 50% from the field 38% from 3. 

shane battier is also a good defender and shooter shoots 43% from 3 point range.

doleac plays 4/5 has good chemistry with steph and is a good midrange shooter and defender.

raef lafrentz is a good shooter with range and a good shotblocker, a lil' soft but likely wont cost anything significant other than salaries.

james jones is a good defender shooting 41% from 3, is struggling in 2 point range though , but makes little salary.

what do you think?


----------



## Zuca (Dec 4, 2003)

Da Grinch said:


> in my opinion the list consists of 2 things, a pure shooter at either the 2/3 spot who can defend a bit and a 4 who 1. defends the lane 2. rebounds 3. spreads the defense with a jumpshot.
> 
> looking around the league I've come up with a list of players within reason (meaning no star players)
> Josh Smith
> ...


I think that both Raef Lafrentz and Wally Szczerbiak can be obtained (with some little filler) for Steve Francis.


----------



## knicksfan (Jan 4, 2003)

Out of those guys I want them in this order.

1. Josh Smith
2. Shane Battier
3. Tyson Chandler
4. Michael Doleac (wouldn't mind at all actually, kinda ying-yang with Curry)
5. Mickael Pietrus 

Wouldn't mind all 5, but J-Smoove if attainable is a must get for us.


----------



## USSKittyHawk (Jul 22, 2005)

I wouldn't mind taking a stab at Tyson Chandler, I like his rebounding numbers and the fact that he actually attemptd to block shots. We really don't have a valuable shot blocker, Cato does not count. Too bad we can't get rid of Jerome James. Would you start Tyson alongside Curry or have him come off the bench?


----------



## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

Da Grinch said:


> in my opinion the list consists of 2 things, a pure shooter at either the 2/3 spot who can defend a bit and a 4 who 1. defends the lane 2. rebounds 3. spreads the defense with a jumpshot.
> 
> looking around the league I've come up with a list of players within reason (meaning no star players)
> Josh Smith
> ...


I think the only thing missing from your suggestion is a top notch backcourt player. I think that it is only inevitable before we have to find another star backcourt player to substitute Marbury and carry us into Eddy Curry's prime. Unfortunately, Marbury is a bit on the old side and also has issues with his knees. We need to make sure that this player is secure in my opinion above all else.

Beside that, I think all the suggestions are solid. I don't really see the purpose of Doleac but he'd be a hell of alot more productive than Jerome James. Personally, I'd go for Randy Foye and Josh Smith.


----------



## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

the reasoning for the players i selected is this .

Josh smith along with marvin williams & zaza, is too small and with josh childress and joe johnson the minutes are limited at playing them elsewhere ...they need a real big of comparative value ...I personally think Channing is worth more than Josh smith despite the fact that smith's #s across the board are better because he is capable of playing center . 

something like channing for smith some end of the bench guy to be cut and sent back(for salary purposes) and a 2nd round pick is fair.

with tyson chandler whom i think can play with curry easily as a weakside rebounder when eddy is in the post and some1 who dives in on cuts when they double curry (if eddy can actually hit him with passes it will work well)I actaully think it works much better than in chicago because both are significantly better players now...curry demands so much more attention now it will make things easy...he'll pretty much clear up and interior defensive issues.

shane battier , james jones and michael pietrus all would provide the same thing good/great perimter defense, with excellent outside...all would likely take a young player needed to be sent back for them...most likely balkman as the suns like him despite what they say , they did have him in for a secret workout before the draft and he does fit their up and down style of play, ditto for the warriors and nellie ...james jones isn't worth balkman without a pick being thrown in ...but pietrus is ...shane would cost more , probably alot more since he cost the 8th pick 7 months ago.

doleac is just a good player whose game meshes well with marbury , can hit a J and play defense .

i think crawford will eventually be the starting pg for better or worse due to his ability to score and chemistry with curry.

to get a top notch backcourt player to replace crawford via trade you are going to have give up a similar assets of value...outside of a guy like chris paul i doubt there is going to be a player who gets as much out of curry as crawford can...but all you have to do with crawford is to let them play, and he costs nothing more than money and is signed for the the next 5 years.


----------



## alexander (May 6, 2005)

^Radmanovic is the guy you're looking for


----------



## Ruff Draft (Nov 21, 2004)

Trade Francis.


----------



## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

Da Grinch said:


> the reasoning for the players i selected is this .
> 
> Josh smith along with marvin williams & zaza, is too small and with josh childress and joe johnson the minutes are limited at playing them elsewhere ...they need a real big of comparative value ...I personally think Channing is worth more than Josh smith despite the fact that smith's #s across the board are better because he is capable of playing center .
> 
> ...



I personally agree with you that despite Smith having more impressive numbers than Frye, does not have better trade value. I do feel however, that Smith is a much better fit for us because of his defensive abilities that are well suited to a changing league. Bigger guys are much more adept and athletic with the ball so we need a guy big enough to play them but quick enough to stay in front of them, both of which Smith is capable of.

In a sense, I believe Smith can very well provide what you and I believe Tyson Chandler could provide but with the benefit of having some offensive ability that would allow the floor to be better spaced. I think Smith's passing ability has also improved to the point where I'd go as far to say that Smith may be EXACTLY what we need at the 4 spot, granted that there is a continual progression to handle the rigours of playing the 4 spot on the regular.

I also love the ideas involving the 3 small forwards you mentioned. The problem though is I do not believe Shane Battier in particular would be available. In all reality, a player of his caliber could be the missing player to a Rockets title run the next few years before McGrady's back gives out. Like you said, I doubt the Rockets give him up but he'd be the perfect veteran leader to have on the team if and when we make the transition to a more younger and final version of this roster.


As for Doleac, he's extremely slow footed and does not provide us with adequate help defense to combat our poor defensive play in general. I love his jump shooting ability but with Curry here, I doubt he see's much time on the floor and in all honesty would prefer a shot blocker type backing Curry up ala Adonal Foyle (if we get rid of a couple **** contracts in the process). 


*Darko Milicic has also interested me recently to. I think he's starter material in this league and might be looking to bolt after this season. He has that Doleac touch from the field but is actually a pretty good shot blocker and man to man defender for a guy his size. I like Smith's potential better as a 4 for us because I think he's more of a defensive player which is what we need but I wouldn't mind looking into Milicic if we use Frye as bait to lure a very talented back-court player. Still I prefer Smith.*


Despite Crawford having very good chemistry with Eddy Curry, I do not believe he's the guy we'd want or will be running the point for us in the future. His versatility and irratic play suggests to me that Isiah would prefer to bring him off the bench in a 6th man role. Those qualities are best suited for the bench because you have to really know what your going to get out of your starters night to night since they are the one's who are in the position to win you games in the playoffs and beyond. As big as Crawford plays sometimes, you just do not know what he'll give you from night to night. At least in a bench role, he can spur on the team in droughts if he's hot but still have the option of keeping him on the bench when he's not. As a starter you lose that and have to live and die by him which is something I do not believe Isiah is prepared to do. Aside from that, I really can't envision us securing a much better bench player than Jamal so I just can't see that happening.

This is why I've suggested several times that we use Channing Frye as bait for the kind of player that can be a STAR and ultimately serve as apart of the 1-2 punch next to Curry. Personally, I love Randy Foye's game because while he is a gunner, he is a smart gunner that does so within the system. You seldom find guys intelligent enough to know when to give up the ball and more importantly, how to move without the ball (a critical element when playing with another player capable of dominating). He's also a pest on the defensive end of the floor and seldom gets beat off the dribble as a rookie, making it all the more impressive. The question is whether he can take over games but in either case, I believe he can give BIG results. If time boils down to the last second shot, we still have Jamal on the bench which is another reason why I believe that this thing would work great. If we follow something of the Mavericks road to success, we may be able to add the kind of defensive players on the perimeter and post that can offset the defensive liabilities of our star big man.


----------



## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

P.S. DaGrinch, what do you think of bringing in a guy like Royal Ivey in a deal for Josh Smith? Personally, I think the guy is someone that is definately bench material and possible bench warming material but what I like about him is his defensive aggressiveness and humility. I got a chance to here him being interviewed during a Knick game when he burned us and came away impressed with what he had to say as much as the way he was playing on the court. I think that he may not be a big difference maker down the road but on this team could find a home and apart of something big at 26 years old. He could be something of our Brain Shaw (minus the Jimmy) when he was on the Lakers or Buck Williams when he was with us; a stable kind of player on the floor that has longevity with one team but never really plays.

The way I see things, or at least the way I'd construct the team, would be to facilitate trades that would relagate Jamal Crawford and possibly Quentin Richardson to the bench in order to serve as the offensive punch of our 2nd unit. A guy like Ivey to the mix adds the balance and poise that Jamal sometimes does not possess in the off chance we need that instead of Jamal. By doing so, we'd have an excellent mix of players at the point, shooting guard and small forward spots. My team would look something like this....


Starters:
Randy Foye...PG
Marko Jaric...SG
Quentin Richardson...SF
Josh Smith...PF
Eddy Curry...C

Bench:
Jamal Crawford...G
Royal Ivey...PG
Ronaldo Balkman...SF
David Lee...PF
Adonal Foyle...C

Mardy Collins..G/F
Jared Jefferies...F
Malik Rose...F/C
Steve Francis...G

...Those would be what the team would look like after my first couple of trades and then later concentrate on strengthening the 2 and 3 spots to move one of those two (Jaric or Richardson) to the bench. I think though that this would be a nice first step to getting us in the right direction to retool the team around two stars (Foye and Curry). 

We'd still have Francis would could also provide us meaningful minutes. I might consider starting him ahead of Foye if for some reason Randy succumbs to early pressure in NY or having a hard time to adjust instantly. Either way, I do not believe we'd be to bad off because Francis was actually running the point better than Marbury earlier in the season so we could bring Foye along slowly. Ideally speaking, I'd like to keep Marbury around but also have his successor in the wings because I really like Marbury's game and what he's doing on the floor now.


----------



## da1nonly (May 8, 2006)

Shanes in Houston. Francis used to be in Houston and is good friends with Yao. Steve and something for Shane would probably be most realistic


----------



## 0oh_S0o_FreSh!! (Jun 3, 2006)

i thought i posted in this thread. Anyways, i said i wanted Diop and or ariza back possibly matt barnes. arent too expensive can get the job done some can reboujnd, can drive, and dip can block.


----------



## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

i like the idea of darko but he is too soft, he has all the skills though, if Zeke can toughen him up it would be a steal .

doleac is a good help defender , but in the jason collins mold a non jumping obstacle who bothers people into missing by getting there on time, unlike the quicker knicks interior who almost always get there late.

A guy like Ivey is nice and he's a local guy but because he'll never play and the knicks already have Mardy who is the same thing in a more talented package i'm pretty indifferent to bringing him in especially with the knicks glut of guards as is.

i also agree Zeke's focus in bringing in JC was as a bench guy but i think Crawford is a guy who will continue to grow as a player and as a pg Crawford is actually physically dominant and he has the quickness for the position, if Thomas can trade for a guy better I think he will , but i just dont see it as a pressing issue.

Foye looks like a watered down wade if the knicks are going to give up what it takes to get him i would rather it go for a player who is bigger capable of truly playing the 2 and possibly the 3 at times in a small lineup ...i dont see that in Foye.


----------



## Hakeem (Aug 12, 2004)

Battier seems to have become a favorite in Houston.
http://www.basketballforum.com/showthread.php?t=336405


----------



## Kiyaman (Aug 14, 2006)

*I see that it is all about the Knick Players and not one word on the coaching and the coaching methods of this (ONE on ONE) Knick Team. What offensive system would you say the Knicks been using this season, or defensive system? * 

Have anyone been watching the Knicks offense setup this season? 

Have anyone been watching the Knicks defensive setup and how they run back on defense? 

*How has Isiah Thomas Coaching been vs NBA Teams with a Yao & Battier Frontcourt, or a Telfair & Pierce Backcourt, or an Arenas & Jamison Front & Back scoring setup, or a offense/defense front-back setup of Duncan, Ginobli, and Parker? * 

If you had to select the 5 worst coaches this season would Isiah Thomas name pop up? 

Is it the Knick Players or is it the Coach? 

*I say it is the Coach, *and his persistent method of trying to improve Eddy Curry Talents as if it is his only priority on this Knick Team. It was a BIG reason why coaches did not use Eddy Curry in Crunch Time, and it was not because of his bad foul shooting? 

How many coaches is going to let Jamal Crawford keep dribbling more than half the shot clock down on practically every offensive possesion? especially when Jamal Crawford needs to work & practice hard on his passing skillz off the dribble, passing back and forth on a fast break, and his aim for outlet passes. 
By the way do anyone see Crawford running on or for a fastbreak? 

*It's the Knick Coach, not the players or trading for another player.* 

*Example:* *Magic Johnson, Stocton, Isiah, Kidd, and Nash, played over 40 minutes per game at the PG-position their first 3 years on a team with their selected players to start & finish with each game. How come David Lee & Crawford are Finishers but not Starters???*


----------



## alphaorange (Jul 2, 2006)

*Its Both.....*

Players and coach. He doesn't do a good job of being a bench coach and the players don't bring it every night. At this stage of the game the players need to be responsible enough to play with effort all the time.


----------



## C-Rave (Nov 24, 2006)

What the Knicks need is a defensive presence in the paint. They are one of the worse shot blocking teams in the league. Overall defense for that matter could improve as well, because just watching the games make you realize that almost no one plays defense on the Knicks.


----------

