# We need to get Vince Carter.



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

I know we are trying to find point guards like mad, but at the end of the day, none of the ones available are good enough to truly make us threatening. As it stands, Lebron is basically by himself with no other superstar to help. It's time to rectify that and give Lebron a championship calibre running mate.

I nominate Vince Carter.

Send Larry Hughes and Anderson Verejao to New Jersey(this way they still have their backcourt depth, and they add the perfect big man to fit with Kidd, Kristic, and Jefferson).

New Jersey sends Carter this way.

New Lineup:

Eric Snow(Mike Brown)
Vince Carter
Lebron James
Drew Gooden
Zydrunas

I know we all hate to lose Andy, but we are so loaded up in the frontcourt right now that it's impossible for any of these guys to get rhythm. Losing Andy means about 5-10 more minutes a game for Marshall and Drew. We'll miss his defense and rebounding down load a lot, but Drew needs to step up.

Meanwhile, on offense we've got Vince Carter on one side, Lebron on the other. Eric Snow has to pass to one of them. And I'd rather have it be Vince Carter than Larry Hughes. Plus Carter is a finisher, so Lebron can pass pass pass all he wants.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Oh and you'd need to chuck Dwayne Jones into the deal for it to work I believe. Which is fine.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

I don't know if I can handle more Gooden time. I've been a big supporter of Drew over the year but if his offense isn't going he is just braindead.

I'd still probably do it.


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## L (Sep 20, 2005)

Is it alright with you if i post this trade on the Nets board and see what they think?


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Go right ahead.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

2dumb2live said:


> Is it alright with you if i post this trade on the Nets board and see what they think?



So long as you tell them if that deal doesn't work they can have anyone else on the roster if they can make it work under the cap, so long as his first name isn't Lebron.

I tried to make a Zydrunas deal work as well, but I figured the Nets would rather have Verejao and Hughes.


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

I'd prefer to give up Gooden in the deal.


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## Babe Ruth (Dec 6, 2006)

Wow imagine Vince Carter playing LeBron James. Some people would ask themselves can they play together, I believe so because both are very unselfish players and don't mind passing the ball. But I don't believe that the Nets will trade Vince Carter, I know this is his last year of his contract, but I believe he would like to Stay in Jersey.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

If AI and Melo can end up on the same team, then VC and Lebron should be a cakewalk.


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## Bron_Melo_ROY (Apr 12, 2004)

I'd rather have it Larry and Drew for VC. That would allow Anderson Varejao to start full time and we've seen how effective he is as a started. And then, Donyell Marshall wouldn't have to look over his shoulder for Andy everytme he's in the game and MAY actually make layups.


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## TucsonClip (Sep 2, 2002)

I think Vince and LeBron would be a great duo.

Vince doesnt dominate the ball the way Iverson does (all the talk about Iverson and LeBron not being a good match). Vince would be great for LeBron, except for when he jacks up a bunch of stupid shots. 

Also, this is a realistic trade possibility. I am sure NJ would love to have Gooden, but a package of Hughes and Varejao might interest them as well. The only problem with Hughes is that he is injury prone. NJ would not be able to handle RJ and Hughes out at the same time, so I would think they would much rather have Gooden in a package then Varejao so they have that offensive threat on the block.


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## Larry Hughes for Retirement (Jul 5, 2004)

Hughes almost has to play great/healthy basketball for a month for anyone to take a chance on him.


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## Mikki has cool hair (Dec 2, 2006)

I see it more likely that if Carter and LeBron were to ever play together it would be with the Brooklyn squad when LeBron's contract runs out.


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## TucsonClip (Sep 2, 2002)

Mikki has cool hair said:


> I see it more likely that if Carter and LeBron were to ever play together it would be with the Brooklyn squad when LeBron's contract runs out.


I dont know how you figure that. Vince has a PO for next year and would be a free agent the summer after. 

The more realistic scenario is that Vince is traded to the Cavs or the Cavs create cap space to sign Vince. 

Im not even a Cavs fan, but even I know that LeBron isnt going anywhere soon.


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## John (Jun 9, 2002)

I like this deal for Cavs and the nets. I think for Nets, They can play their game without not worrying have to give the ball to Vince Carter some time. And RJ would have bigger role on offense due to Hughes is worse than VC on offense and he actually plays smarter and smoothy than VC.

For Cavs, I have a concern, who will be the go to guy in clutch? At this point of their careers, Carter will be a better choice still if the refs call taggy fouls on the night because VC doesnt intitate the contact. That's the only thing keep himself not being a 28 point scorer and he doesnt and never have a good in between game.

James is better as drawing fouls because he does look to but he is poor than VC interms of trying to get a shot off in like 2 seconds, what we call here is the "Catch and shoot" shot!

But I need to undertsand what Cavs fans thought of VC before I like this idea. You have to take off the James glasses and must put VC on the James level offensively in ONE on ONE situation or even should think VC is better in this regards. 

If coach Mike Brown has the guts go to VC over James in clutch, Championship calbiru team! If VC plays like a second fiddle to James, 2nd round playoff exits!


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## Bron_Melo_ROY (Apr 12, 2004)

John said:


> I like this deal for Cavs and the nets. I think for Nets, They can play their game without not worrying have to give the ball to Vince Carter some time. And RJ would have bigger role on offense due to Hughes is worse than VC on offense and he actually plays smarter and smoothy than VC.
> 
> For Cavs, I have a concern, who will be the go to guy in clutch? At this point of their careers, Carter will be a better choice still if the refs call taggy fouls on the night because VC doesnt intitate the contact. That's the only thing keep himself not being a 28 point scorer and he doesnt and never have a good in between game.
> 
> ...


Hold on homie, just because you don't make/take the game winning shot doesn't mean you're not clutch. A game-winning assist is just as valuable as a game-winning shot. LeBron is very good and vastly underrated in the clutch. That being said, VC would add another game breaker/clutch performer to the team and would open things up more.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Lol slow your roll John, this is just a fan proposal, lol you make it sound like this deal is going down.


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## Bron_Melo_ROY (Apr 12, 2004)

lol, wishful thinking I guess


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## cima (Nov 6, 2003)

hughes, gooden, and wesley for carter and jason collins.

works under the cap. works for both teams. gives the nets a low post presence and still a guy who can score on the perimeter. plus i think wesley has an expiring contract. cavs get a good player alongside lebron and guy to replace gooden in the 4/5 rotation.


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

c p 9 said:


> hughes, gooden, and wesley for carter and jason collins.
> 
> works under the cap. works for both teams. gives the nets a low post presence and still a guy who can score on the perimeter. plus i think wesley has an expiring contract. cavs get a good player alongside lebron and guy to replace gooden in the 4/5 rotation.


That would be a great deal for the Cavs. Collins would be a solid backup 5 man and we still have AV/Marshall to man the 4.


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## cima (Nov 6, 2003)

yep i don't see what there isn't to like for both teams, especially since i don't see vince going back to the nets next year.

PG- snow (ugh...)/booby
sg- carter/d. jones
sf- lebron/pav
pf- andy/marshall
c- z/collins

pg- kidd/williams
sg- hughes/house
sf- jefferson/...i dont watch the nets
pf- gooden/uncle cliff
c- ummmm...yeah...kristic when he comes back. i think they got boone too.

i'd do it if i was the nets...no brainer if i was the cavs.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

c p 9 said:


> hughes, gooden, and wesley for carter and jason collins.
> 
> works under the cap. works for both teams. gives the nets a low post presence and still a guy who can score on the perimeter. plus i think wesley has an expiring contract. cavs get a good player alongside lebron and guy to replace gooden in the 4/5 rotation.


That'd be a fantastic deal to pull off.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Nets are going to have to keep losing for them to want to make a deal


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## Bron_Melo_ROY (Apr 12, 2004)

c p 9 said:


> hughes, gooden, and wesley for carter and jason collins.
> 
> works under the cap. works for both teams. gives the nets a low post presence and still a guy who can score on the perimeter. plus i think wesley has an expiring contract. cavs get a good player alongside lebron and guy to replace gooden in the 4/5 rotation.


That would really be perfect for both teams.


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## Aurelino (Jul 25, 2003)

you guys need Jason Kidd more than Vince Carter. 

PG position is the weaklink in the cavs lineup. Imagine a fastbreak with Kidd and LeBron. That's be nasty. The problem with Carter is that he doesn't like to run, and the team becomes primarily a half-court team. Kidd will also get guys who are good finishers/shooters easy baskets, and LeBron won't have to work so hard to create for himself and others. Plus, Kidd brings the veteran leadership, defense, competitive fire and intangibles that every team needs.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Aurelino said:


> you guys need Jason Kidd more than Vince Carter.
> 
> PG position is the weaklink in the cavs lineup. Imagine a fastbreak with Kidd and LeBron. That's be nasty. The problem with Carter is that he doesn't like to run, and the team becomes primarily a half-court team. Kidd will also get guys who are good finishers/shooters easy baskets, and LeBron won't have to work so hard to create for himself and others. Plus, Kidd brings the veteran leadership, defense, competitive fire and intangibles that every team needs.


I agree but I don't think the Nets are interested in trading Kidd. Not that the Nets are interested in trading VC but he could easily jumpship with his possible FA. In addition teams are rightfully or wrongly scared off by Kidd's age and injury history


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## arhie (Jul 4, 2006)

On the nets Carter does more halfcourt creating than Kidd. Kidd is mostly a fastbreak player.


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## Pain5155 (May 28, 2006)

c p 9 said:


> hughes, gooden, and wesley for carter and jason collins.
> 
> works under the cap. works for both teams. gives the nets a low post presence and still a guy who can score on the perimeter. plus i think wesley has an expiring contract. cavs get a good player alongside lebron and guy to replace gooden in the 4/5 rotation.


throw in a 1st round draft pick. nets r giving up too much.


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## cima (Nov 6, 2003)

cavs don't have one to give. at least not this year


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## cpawfan (Jun 20, 2004)

Bron_Melo_ROY said:


> That would really be perfect for both teams.


It would be a horrible deal for the Nets. The Nets would be better off letting Vince walk away for nothing than being stuck with Hughes horrible contract and paying luxury tax for it. Add in the fact Wesley is garbage and the deal just gets better.

Drew is a nice player, but he isn't worth taking on those other two.


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## cima (Nov 6, 2003)

cpawfan said:


> It would be a horrible deal for the Nets. The Nets would be better off letting Vince walk away for nothing than being stuck with Hughes horrible contract and paying luxury tax for it. Add in the fact Wesley is garbage and the deal just gets better.
> 
> Drew is a nice player, but he isn't worth taking on those other two.


nah, it's much better to have hughes than nothing at all. he's still a good player. wesley is good for them cause his contract is expiring, is it not? and gooden gives them a low post presence to replace kristic for now, and team with him when he comes back. what's not to like if you're a nets fan, assuming vince wants out?


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## cpawfan (Jun 20, 2004)

c p 9 said:


> nah, it's much better to have hughes than nothing at all. he's still a good player. wesley is good for them cause his contract is expiring, is it not? and gooden gives them a low post presence to replace kristic for now, and team with him when he comes back. what's not to like if you're a nets fan, assuming vince wants out?


Wesley isn't expiring, he has a 2 year deal.

Hughes is worse than nothing because the Nets would have to pay the luxury tax for a player that has only once played more than 70 games in a season and who has only twice averaged more than 19 PPG in a season.

Cleveland fans need to face the fact that Hughes has very, very little trade value. As in only slightly better than Kenyon Martin trade value.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

cpawfan said:


> Wesley isn't expiring, he has a 2 year deal.
> 
> Hughes is worse than nothing because the Nets would have to pay the luxury tax for a player that has only once played more than 70 games in a season and who has only twice averaged more than 19 PPG in a season.
> 
> Cleveland fans need to face the fact that Hughes has very, very little trade value. As in only slightly better than Kenyon Martin trade value.


Yeah...which is why Verejao is the principle in the deal I suggested that included Hughes. Hughes is only there to match up with Carter's salary. Because Verejao makes second round money.


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## LostInGeorgia (Jun 29, 2006)

i thought i'd bump this thread since rj just had ankle surgery and is expected to miss a few weeks, i know that the nets are in first place in the atlantic now, but toronto playing better and the heat still need to take someone's postseason spot, that will make it very hard for new jersey to keep their playoff spot...maybe now would be a time to go back to new jersey and see if we can get carter for hughes+gooden/av


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

The Nets have won 8 of their last 11 games, I dont know about Toronto playing better


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## LostInGeorgia (Jun 29, 2006)

HB said:


> The Nets have won 8 of their last 11 games, I dont know about Toronto playing better


i'll admit that they have won 9 or their last 11, bu that was with jefferson averaging 16/5/4, now they will be without that and without krstic.

toronto has been 6-4 since bosh has returned, with losses against utah, dallas (by 1), phoenix (by 2), and (yes) the other loss was against new jersey, but winning 6/10 very well could be enough to win the atlantic

and there is always a strong possibility that only one team from the atlantic will go to the playoffs, that could leave new jersey out of the playoffs, it will still need to be seen how the nets play over the next few games, but a 5 game west coast trip only to come home to detroit is not something i would look forward to


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## JoeOtter15 (Apr 22, 2005)

u can take VC. i dont give a ****. if you want a choker, take VC. him and lebron will form the all "worst allstars in the 4th quarter" team, with VC being a little worse.


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## Petey (Aug 23, 2002)

futuristxen said:


> Yeah...which is why Verejao is the principle in the deal I suggested that included Hughes. Hughes is only there to match up with Carter's salary. Because Verejao makes second round money.


... Ah so won't the Nets just be better off in letting him walk and spending their full MLE on a big man, then take on the cheap Verejao, whiling have to pay for a very pricey Hughes?

I think so...

-Petey


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

JoeOtter15 said:


> u can take VC. i dont give a ****. if you want a choker, take VC. him and lebron will form the all "worst allstars in the 4th quarter" team, with VC being a little worse.


hmm... it's pretty clear you don't know anything about Lebron.


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Petey said:


> ... Ah so won't the Nets just be better off in letting him walk and spending their full MLE on a big man, then take on the cheap Verejao, whiling have to pay for a very pricey Hughes?
> 
> I think so...
> 
> -Petey


What do you mean "take on the cheap Varejao"?


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## Pain5155 (May 28, 2006)

the cavs dont need a superstar, they need to unload king james before he walks away for a couple first round picks.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Again. The downside of aquiring VC is we also aquire his idiot fans and haters.


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Pain5155 said:


> the cavs dont need a superstar, they need to unload king james before he walks away for a couple first round picks.


Good point. Time and time again, if there's anything NBA GMs have shown us, it's that trading away superstars makes your team better.


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## Petey (Aug 23, 2002)

Brandname said:


> What do you mean "take on the cheap Varejao"?


He has a cheap contract.

-Petey


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Petey said:


> He has a cheap contract.
> 
> -Petey


But how would you take him on?

If you're not giving up something big, you''re not going to get AV from us in a trade. And he won't be cheap if you expect to get him next year.


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## Petey (Aug 23, 2002)

Brandname said:


> But how would you take him on?
> 
> If you're not giving up something big, you''re not going to get AV from us in a trade. And he won't be cheap if you expect to get him next year.


I like Varejao, just not if the Nets have to take on Hughes contract.

You don't think the Nets would be better off letting Carter walk (if he wanted) and using the full MLE on a big man instead of getting Varejao but having to absorb Hughes contract?

-Petey


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Petey said:


> I like Varejao, just not if the Nets have to take on Hughes contract.
> 
> You don't think the Nets would be better off letting Carter walk (if he wanted) and using the full MLE on a big man instead of getting Varejao but having to absorb Hughes contract?
> 
> -Petey


No, that's not what I was saying. I was just saying that it sounded in your original post like your idea was to let Carter go in FA and still get Varejao. My point was that that would be very hard to do, and it definitely wouldn't be cheap.

EDIT - Oh, I get it now. In your original post, you have the word "then", where you mean to have "than". It made it sound like you wanted to let Carter go, pick up a big man with the MLE, and then get Varejao for cheap. I understand what you were trying to say now, though.


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## Aurelino (Jul 25, 2003)

Pioneer10 said:


> I agree but I don't think the Nets are interested in trading Kidd. Not that the Nets are interested in trading VC but he could easily jumpship with his possible FA. In addition teams are rightfully or wrongly scared off by Kidd's age and injury history


Bump. The Cavs seem to have inquired about Kidd.



> The bidding isn't limited to L.A. I have it on excellent authority the Cavaliers - desperate to relieve LeBron James of his playmaking-for-others-and-himself obligation, and transform him into an open court, post-up receiver - called the Nets to voice their fondness for Kidd.
> 
> "I don't look for that to happen," said someone in the know. "Given the choice between playing in Cleveland with LeBron or in Los Angeles with Kobe, I suspect we know which way Kidd would lean. You definitely don't want an unhappy impact player."


http://www.nypost.com/seven/02112007/sports/nets/swamp_exodus_nets_peter_vecsey.htm?page=2


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## arhie (Jul 4, 2006)

I don't know about Kidd, it could work with lebron, but Lebron doesn't want to be the man. It seems like he doesn't want to score. IF Vince is here, he could force Vince to score, and can be a triple double guy on a nightly basis. Lebron could then average 25 10 10 and force vince to score more. Teams can not double Vince or Lebron, it will be extremely scary.


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## Ras (Jul 25, 2005)

arhie said:


> I don't know about Kidd, it could work with lebron, but Lebron doesn't want to be the man. It seems like he doesn't want to score. IF Vince is here, he could force Vince to score, and can be a triple double guy on a nightly basis. Lebron could then average 25 10 10 and force vince to score more. Teams can not double Vince or Lebron, it will be extremely scary.


Since when does Vince want to be the man?


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## arhie (Jul 4, 2006)

He always was the man. He never said he didn't want to be the man. EVER. "But I'm telling you, there's still a lot of season left. I believe in our team, regardless of how we've played lately. We might not look like we have the confidence they have collectively, but I'll tell you, I still have confidence in us. And people better know that I'm going to go down fighting -- until the last day, until they say, 'You're not in it anymore.' I'm going to fight until the last day, and so with the rest of the guys in here. I believe in every one of them, and I believe in our coaching staff. I believe we're going to be the ones (winning the division) in the end." "But the turnaround starts with somebody, and then it becomes contagious. And then everybody starts to believe. That's where it has to start. I know we're at the bottom right now, but we can turn this around. And I know wholeheartedly that that is our mentality. It has to start somewhere. And it's up to the leaders -- me and J-Kidd -- to lead us." Thats what Vince said after all these heartbreakers. And notice good things happen when he says I instead of we, and he said me before Jkidd. I think thats key.


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## vincedunkedonzo2 (Jan 29, 2007)

Vince is horrible in the 4th quarter really then I must have drempt of those 4 3s he pulled all at under 1 minute. Sorry Cavs but nobody wants Hughes hes overpaid and overrated.


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