# James Johnson coming back to Toronto (2 yrs 5million)



## c_dog (Sep 15, 2002)

link:
http://www.torontosun.com/2014/07/10/raptors-bring-back-james-johnson-for-two-year-deal

i haven't been masai's biggest supporter. understand the organization and masai are enjoying their honeymoon season still. i don't shy away from criticizing his moves but this is definitely one move that i really like. I always liked James Johnson and think he's been extremely underrated in the NBA. Guy has excellent size, athleticism, plays hard, passes well for a forward. There were some concerns about his attitude or not getting along with teammates but he seems like a player who plays with a lot of passion.

he will be paid 2.5million/yr for 2 years. that seems like really good value for a guy who may be our best SF next season.


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## -James- (Apr 27, 2004)

I love this move, because it addresses a glaring hole at a very reasonable price. Landry was supposed to fill this role but clearly he's been a disappointment and James Johnson has sufficiently filled the "wing stopper" role as recently as last season. MLE should still be preserved if they decide to look at Blatche (who I hate, by the way).


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

Pretty good pick up. Don't know if his shooting improved, that was the major knock on him when he was with us.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

I remember him playing 'hero ball' from time to time, but I think that was partly because we were pretty bad and he was allowed to do what he liked offensively. 

In a system and with a clear requirement, I think he is going to be a very nice back up at the SF. He certainly adds toughness and defense to the SF rotation. 

This is by far the deepest team we have ever assembled, I love that Masai just keeps adding talent. 

If we can squeeze a tenured big man into that 15th roster spot, I will be very happy with this offseason.


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## c_dog (Sep 15, 2002)

interestingly dj augustin just signed for 2 years 6million.. i know we cut the dude but i think he's shown enough on the bulls to be worth that contract


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## c_dog (Sep 15, 2002)

Ed davis to LA lakers for 2 years 2 million! Talk about a bargain contract. He played well for us once we decided to give up on the bargnani experiment but had to give him up as he was one of the few players with trade value. I would have liked to see another former raptor signed to this team. Ed davis can even play some 5 to backup valanciunas...

Why did we pass on bargains like Davis and Augustin and gave patterson and vasquez 6million per year each? I understand continuity but they are role players. You don't overpay role players.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

^ We had Davis and Augustin and they didn't help us win. 

GV and PP were both big parts of our most successful regular season ever, that is why we prefer them. Oh, and they're both significantly better basketball players.


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## c_dog (Sep 15, 2002)

Porn Player said:


> ^ We had Davis and Augustin and they didn't help us win.
> 
> GV and PP were both big parts of our most successful regular season ever, that is why we prefer them. Oh, and they're both significantly better basketball players.


now if memory serves me correctly, the raptors played well with ed davis starting. augustin hardly played for us so it was not really his fault. i think ed davis and augustin can both help this team because they are good players and can find ways to contribute.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

c_dog said:


> Why did we pass on bargains like Davis and Augustin and gave patterson and vasquez 6million per year each? I understand continuity but they are role players. You don't overpay role players.


They fit different roles. A better argument is Masai should've signed Ed Davis instead of bringing back Hansbrough.

As for Patterson and Vasquez there are a lot of benefits by having those 2 players on our team. Patterson is a stretch 4 and Vasquez is a combo guard that can play with Lowry. Ed Davis and Augustin while are decent players do not bring those aspects of the game to our team. Ed Davis's role is filled by Hayes/Hansbrough while whatever Augustin does is done better by Vasquez.


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## -James- (Apr 27, 2004)

Vasquez and Patterson are better than Agustin and Ed...


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## c_dog (Sep 15, 2002)

-James- said:


> Vasquez and Patterson are better than Agustin and Ed...


Vasquez costs 3 million more per year. Patterson costs 5 million more per year. Thats a combined 8 million dollars. They better be better.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

c_dog said:


> Vasquez costs 3 million more per year. Patterson costs 5 million more per year. Thats a combined 8 million dollars. They better be better.


Let's play a game. 

Option A: 

Grievez Vazquez + Patrick Patterson 

Option B: 

DJ Augustin + Ed Davis + $8m per/year contract signed THIS offseason 

Can you fill in the blank and elaborate on which player that signed an $8m deal this offseason would have been worth the value of dropping talent at PG and PF.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

Porn Player said:


> Let's play a game.
> 
> Option A:
> 
> ...


You have to first consider that in c_dog's world Kyle Lowry is worth less than Channing Frye and slightly more than half as valuable as Gordon Hayward. If you say that a fair contract for Kyle Lowry at this present time is 8 mil a year I don't know where you go from there.

Like I said, I would love to have Ed Davis back for a mil a year. But even if we get Ed back this team would still benefit from having a stretch 4 on the roster. Same thing with Augustin. It's not like theres a much cheaper version of Vasquez and Patterson out there. The way I see it we paid Patterson a whole lot less than Orlando paid Channing Fyre and Pat is 6 years younger.


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## -James- (Apr 27, 2004)

c_dog said:


> Vasquez costs 3 million more per year. Patterson costs 5 million more per year. Thats a combined 8 million dollars. They better be better.


Was the question not why would we pass on the calue Ed and Agustin in favor of Vasquez and Patterson? I don't even like Patterson but you were clearly reaching with that question.


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## c_dog (Sep 15, 2002)

Porn Player said:


> Let's play a game.
> 
> Option A:
> 
> ...


i really don't think augustin is much of a drop off at pg, especially playing a backup role. ed davis is not a stretch 4 but he has a much higher ceiling than patterson.

if i wanted a stretch 4 i would trade for someone who's undervalued like montejunas from the rockets. there's a big guy who has legit post moves and capable of making 3's.

it's hard to argue with guys who have raptors homer glasses on. i'm all for supporting the team but god damn... vasquez and patterson are overpaid for what we get out of them. they are not 3million and 5million dollars better than augustin or ed davis. i don't believe in just throwing cap space away just because you have cap space either.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

c_dog said:


> i really don't think augustin is much of a drop off at pg, especially playing a backup role. ed davis is not a stretch 4 but he has a much higher ceiling than patterson.


You do know that Patterson is younger than Ed Davis right? I like Ed and all but at 25 years old it's quite reasonable to assume that both of them are career role players. Patterson is a stretch 4 and Ed Davis is a backup rebounding/limited offensively big similar to Hayes/Hansbrough. They fit different roles and the Raptors already have guys that fill the roles that Ed Davis can provide.



> it's hard to argue with guys who have raptors homer glasses on. i'm all for supporting the team but god damn... vasquez and patterson are overpaid for what we get out of them. they are not 3million and 5million dollars better than augustin or ed davis. i don't believe in just throwing cap space away just because you have cap space either.


Kyle Lowry isn't only worth 8 mil with or without homer glasses. You can't hold ridiculous claims yourself and then turn around and call other people homers for not agreeing those claims. Vasquez may be slightly overpaid but Patterson isn't. Stretch 4s are valuable in today's league as evident in guys like Boris Diaw and Channing Frye securing similar contracts (Diaw at 22/3 Frye at 32/4). At 18/3 it's hard to call Patterson overpaid.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

c_dog said:


> i really don't think augustin is much of a drop off at pg, especially playing a backup role. ed davis is not a stretch 4 but he has a much higher ceiling than patterson.
> 
> if i wanted a stretch 4 i would trade for someone who's undervalued like montejunas from the rockets. there's a big guy who has legit post moves and capable of making 3's.
> 
> it's hard to argue with guys who have raptors homer glasses on. i'm all for supporting the team but god damn... vasquez and patterson are overpaid for what we get out of them. they are not 3million and 5million dollars better than augustin or ed davis. i don't believe in just throwing cap space away just because you have cap space either.


We had Augustin and he played such terrible basketball that we waived him after a couple of months. He looked better in Chicago because he was allowed to take as many shots as he liked in the leagues worst offense. 

Regardless of the talent disparity between GV/PP vs DJ/ED, you have failed to answer my question, who is this mystery $8 million a year superstar that we could have snagged and improved our rotation with? 

Or are you now saying that you would rather have DJ/ED and to be well under the cap allowance? E.g you would rather make the team worse off just to save the MLSE money? Are you for real?


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

DJ Augustin became so valuable to Chicago that Detroit signed him for 3 mil a year.


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## c_dog (Sep 15, 2002)

Porn Player said:


> We had Augustin and he played such terrible basketball that we waived him after a couple of months. He looked better in Chicago because he was allowed to take as many shots as he liked in the leagues worst offense.
> 
> Regardless of the talent disparity between GV/PP vs DJ/ED, you have failed to answer my question, who is this mystery $8 million a year superstar that we could have snagged and improved our rotation with?
> 
> Or are you now saying that you would rather have DJ/ED and to be well under the cap allowance? E.g you would rather make the team worse off just to save the MLSE money? Are you for real?


i'm not sure who the raps can sign but they could be sign lance stephenson. not the best fit but there are guys we can sign for the right price tag out there. you must have missed my sentence where i said i don't believe in throwing away cap space just for the heck of throwing away cap space. I'm not even talking about saving MLSE money i'm talking about getting players for what they're worth.

Maybe Patterson is better than Ed davis, but he's being paid 5-6 times more. there are guys we can sign for cheaper to fill his role, and it's not to save MLSE money but for *flexibility*. reasonable contracts are easier to trade and you can never have too much cap space. maybe if more NBA GM's adhere to this concept we wouldn't have so many poorly run leagues in the NBA...


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## -James- (Apr 27, 2004)

So you're contention is that we should roster worse players now so that we could maybe sign or trade for better players later? Do you realize the value of reasonable contracts for mid-level players for teams approaching the soft cap? And the negligible value of small contracts like the one Ed Davis signed, which are so often traded for second round picks or "future considerations" (assuming that Ed doesn't explode, of course)?

Again, being $5M under the cap in no way makes you more flexible than having a $6M expiring contract a season from now. Being $5M under the cap also does not make you more flexible than having the $5.3M exception made available to teams over the cap.

I don't really even like Patterson and agree that Vasquez is probably an overpay, but it is obvious that Masai is looking for continuity using contracts that in effect do nothing to affect roster flexibility. Are you really arguing that more teams should be like Philly (i.e. sign shitty players in favor of mid-level guys because they are more tradable)?


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## c_dog (Sep 15, 2002)

i actually would have loved to see the raptors sign greg monroe to the max, seeing that he's still a FA. at the very least it would screw the pistons over by commiting huge contracts to josh smith, brandon jennings, monroe, and soon drummond. they will likely move josh smith to open up space for drummond.

if the pistons don't match i could have seen monroe, DD, and valaciunas being fantastic together for years to come.


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