# 4-1 without Kobe



## hotel312 (Jul 13, 2004)

Yes, 4-1 w/out Kobe, and yes I'm counting the 6 minutes he played as him being out. When are you guys gonna start to acknowledge my genius? He is a Cancer, how do you explain the record w/out him. Yes, its only 5 games but that is a pretty good sample, and the best stretch of the season. Talent doesn't necessarily equate to a better team, if that was the case Portland would have won a few years ago. The Lakers should have traded Kobe Cancer for Lamar Odom, nuff said. I know all of you wannabe geniuses are gonna say I'm just hatin on Kobe, I'm just kickin the facts. The sooner you accept the facts the better off you will be. I'm tired of being right about this all of the time, and tired of telling you novices "I told you so"!


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## Hov (Aug 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>hotel312</b>!
> I'm tired of being right about this all of the time, and tired of telling you novices "I told you so"!


Then why do you keep coming back?
I think the answer's pretty obvious..

You love us. :yes:


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

This guy is obviously typing from Shaq's basement. Are you really Shaunie Nelson?


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## lakegz (Mar 31, 2004)

because of hotel's post, every laker fan succumbs to the revelation that kobe indeed is a bad player for the team. the next day, kobe gets traded for Jim Jackson. Thank you for your revealing post hotel, we are forever thankful.


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## daniel80111 (Dec 29, 2004)

we are better off without kobe...psssh...we beat golden state twice, a 10th place t wolves team, and the utah jazz...I m waiting to play a real team to see what happens without kobe.


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## Lakerman33 (Oct 16, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>daniel80111</b>!
> we are better off without kobe...psssh...we beat golden state twice, a 10th place t wolves team, and the utah jazz...I m waiting to play a real team to see what happens without kobe.


Exactly we should win thoes games without kobe any way. Plus does anyboady remember when kobe hurt himself then came back and was awsome a few years back during the 3-peat era?
Kobe will notice how the team is playing without him and he will come back only to make the team that much stronger:yes:


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>hotel312</b>!
> Yes, 4-1 w/out Kobe, and yes I'm counting the 6 minutes he played as him being out. When are you guys gonna start to acknowledge my genius? He is a Cancer, how do you explain the record w/out him. Yes, its only 5 games but that is a pretty good sample, and the best stretch of the season. Talent doesn't necessarily equate to a better team, if that was the case Portland would have won a few years ago. The Lakers should have traded Kobe Cancer for Lamar Odom, nuff said. I know all of you wannabe geniuses are gonna say I'm just hatin on Kobe, I'm just kickin the facts. The sooner you accept the facts the better off you will be. I'm tired of being right about this all of the time, and tired of telling you novices "I told you so"!


UGGGGGHHHHH!!!!!

It is so moronic of people to say this kind of crap. People behind me were saying this at the game yesterday. You are all wrong!!!!

If we had Kobe, we wouldn't be going down to the wire with teams like the Warriors TWICE! 

Good Lord, they might have won, but they would have certainly won those games with Kobe and they would have won them much easier. Do you honestly think this team is better in the long-run and can beat teams like Sacramento without Kobe? 

If you do, you are simply an idiot.


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## shobe42 (Jun 21, 2002)

the team is not better without Kobe, but without him players have opened more and found a team that is giving them success against terrible teams...

they have to keep this concept and talent playin at this level when Kobe returns and then this team will move up quick in the Western Conference...

If you say Kobe has been a cancer to this team this year you've haven't watched this year. He's been an all around good teammate and leader (all his teamates have said it.)

Unfortuantely his teammates never really responded (except on occassion) and they never had a ton of success...


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>shobe42</b>!
> the team is not better without Kobe, but without him players have opened more and found a team that is giving them success against terrible teams...
> 
> they have to keep this concept and talent playin at this level when Kobe returns and then this team will move up quick in the Western Conference...
> ...


Cleveland is a TERRIBLE team?  

We're not championship contenders by any stretch, but are one of the few East teams with a winning record against the West. "Terrible" seems a bit harsh.


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## Drewbs (Feb 16, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Benedict_Boozer</b>!
> 
> 
> Cleveland is a TERRIBLE team?
> ...


Terrible teams in general. Of course Cleveland isn't terrible, but Golden State sure is... :dead:


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## Silverdale (Dec 25, 2004)

Actually I agree with Hotel. I do think the Lakers are a better ball club without Kobe. I said it last year when they started off I think 18-3 without him? He has loads of talent but he does not make his teamates better and tends to be on the selfish side. No Im not bashing Kobe because I think the same thing about alot of other players as well. I just Think Kobe was a better player when he was younger and still learning and humble. No to me he is very overated and not a Leader. Kobe without shaq=Paul Pierce.


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## Hov (Aug 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Silverdale</b>!
> Actually I agree with Hotel. I do think the Lakers are a better ball club without Kobe. I said it last year when they started off I think 18-3 without him? He has loads of talent but he does not make his teamates better and tends to be on the selfish side. No Im not bashing Kobe because I think the same thing about alot of other players as well. I just Think Kobe was a better player when he was younger and still learning and humble. No to me he is very overated and not a Leader. Kobe without shaq=Paul Pierce.


He was playing during the stretch when they went 18-3 last year.

In fact, last season the Lakers had a better record without Shaq (and with Kobe) compared to without Kobe (and with Shaq).
Now, I'm not saying Kobe was more valuable, but saying the Lakers are better without Kobe is ridiculous.
But I do believe this injury will turn out to be a blessing in disguise since the rest of the players are proving they can play to both Rudy and Kobe. They're hustling out there, and Butler, Odom, and Atkins seem energized.

Hopefully when he comes back, he'll be playing off the ball like all of us Laker fans have been saying he should.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Silverdale</b>!
> Kobe without shaq=Paul Pierce.


He's already proven this year that he is much better than Paul Pierce. Saying the Lakers are better without Kobe is just dumb.


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## daniel80111 (Dec 29, 2004)

You know what else is going to be awesome, he can now rest that plantar fascitis that has been bothering him all season. This injury could be a blessing if its not for too long. God, I love the Lakers


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## hotel312 (Jul 13, 2004)

*Kobe*

Of course I know that Kobe is one of the most talented players in the NBA. But w/out Shaq this year he is shooting a career low FG% and a career high in turnovers(leading the NBA). His overall numbers are good(like assists) but the team is in the bottom half of the league in assists. I've said it a million times he is best when he takes about 15 shots a game and has high numbers in assists and rebounds, he gets in trouble when he forces a bunch of shots. Once again Magic and Bird were not the most athletic guys on their HS teams, it takes so much more. Yes, on this streak Cleveland is the only good team, but they haven't exactly beaten any good teams with Kobe have they? You guys are either blind fans or too ignorant or dumb to face the facts. For all of the previous years the excuse was that the Lakers had a better record w/out Kobe than they did w/ Kobe and Shaq was because "the team was built around Shaq". What is it this year? Are they built around Lamar? I suppose you don't think that Lebron has already surpassed Kobe, he is blowing him away in almost every category, except points because Kobe takes so many shots. In a few years you might figure out that this is the beginning of the end for this franchise. As usual, most just say you're a Kobe hater because they have no intelligent response. You get pissed off because I have my facts together. Didn't Kobe play in losses to Denver, Chicago, and Washington? Thats the problem with "fans" you rationalize everything thing even though reality is right in your face.


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## Silverdale (Dec 25, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Hov</b>!
> 
> He was playing during the stretch when they went 18-3 last year.


I dont think so. He started the season on the IR didnt he? THe Lakers started off HOT and then dropped off when he came back.


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## lakegz (Mar 31, 2004)

wow, ive never seen anybody with such an axe to grind like hotel. cool down man, were basketball fans, we love watching the lakers, we obviously dont hate watching them, like you do. 
this team will be fine.


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## BallStateCards (Oct 14, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Silverdale</b>
> I dont think so. He started the season on the IR didnt he? THe Lakers started off HOT and then dropped off when he came back.


He missed the first two games, I think.


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## Hov (Aug 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Silverdale</b>!
> 
> 
> I dont think so. He started the season on the IR didnt he? THe Lakers started off HOT and then dropped off when he came back.


http://www.basketballreference.com/teams/teamscores.htm?tm=LAL&yr=2003&lg=n

Nope, he only missed the 1st game vs the Mavs. He came back the 2nd game. 

We started losing when Malone and the rest of the squad started getting injured.


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## ThaLakeShizzle (Jan 21, 2005)

*Re: Kobe*



> Originally posted by <b>hotel312</b>!
> Yes, on this streak Cleveland is the only good team, but they haven't exactly beaten any good teams with Kobe have they?


Huh, I guess I was wrong, the #4 soon to be #3 or 2 Kings aren't such a good team after all..:sigh:


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## madskillz1_99 (Dec 5, 2004)

*Re: Re: Kobe*



> Originally posted by <b>ThaLakeShizzle</b>!
> 
> 
> Huh, I guess I was wrong, the #4 soon to be #3 or 2 Kings aren't such a good team after all..:sigh:


Not to mention that we should have beaten the Suns twice! :upset: 

I know you can't live on should haves, but still!


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

The Lakers best lineups this season have been:

1 LAL Atkins-Bryant-Jones-Odom-Cook (55 minutes) +36
2 LAL Atkins-Butler-Jones-Cook-Mihm (10 minutes) +21 
3 LAL Atkins-Bryant-Butler-Odom-Cook (89 minutes) +20
4 LAL Brown-Bryant-Jones-Cook-Grant (31 minutes) +20
5 LAL Brown-Bryant-Jones-Odom-Mihm (13 minutes) +18 
6 LAL Brown-Bryant-Jones-Odom-Cook (52 minutes) +14 
7 LAL Atkins-Bryant-Jones-Odom-Mihm (60 minutes) +13

The one constant is Kobe. The only lineup without him is the one that has only played 10 minutes, and my guess is that is the time where they got hot in the 4th quarter, because that lineup doesn't have Odom either, and has Cook/Jones. 

Kobe is a difference maker, it's amazing how much people hate him.


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## Bartholomew Hunt (Mar 4, 2003)

I think that the players on the Lakers team have played better without Kobe. It's obvious that Chucky and Lamar have elevated their games. Even Caron to an extent. They need to learn how to play with the same aggressiveness when Kobe is in the lineup. When Kobe does return, I want Lamar to play the exact same way he is now. Either facilitating or pounding a way in the low post.


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## Sean (Jun 7, 2002)

*Minus 8, it all adds up*

By Steve Dilbeck, Columnist

Ridiculous. Preposterous. Absolutely the most outrageous idea in NBA annals, or at least since Dennis Rodman.

Isn't it?

It just has to be. The numbers, well, you know what they say about statistics.

Right?

Still, just for public consumption and all, here are a couple of Lakers' stats to mull.

In games Kobe Bryant played and was not the team's leading scorer this season, the Lakers are 8-2. Counting the Cleveland game when he was injured early in the first quarter last week, the Lakers are 3-1 since he went down.

Which clearly means ... what ?

Just whisper it for now: The Lakers are a better team without Kobe?

Positively absurd. Correct? You just don't subtract one of the five best basketball players on the planet and watch his team suddenly turn into world beaters.

"Of course, we're not better without him," Lamar Odom said. "There's no way we're a better team when Kobe is not out there."

Lakers coach Rudy Tomjanovich scoffs at the mere thought.

"I don't buy into any of that stuff," he said. "I just ain't going there."

more quotes from players....

"I just think since Kobe's injury, as individuals we're a little bit more focused and attentive to what's going on out there," Odom said. "And, of course, that's helping our team play."

Right now, however, the Lakers are a more diverse team without Kobe. By design, more players are handling the ball. More players are getting involved. More are producing.

"I think a lot of people are starting to realize what other guys can do," Butler said. "Before, a lot of the situations with Kobe and Lamar were isolation plays.

"But I think (we're) now seeing other people's games, seeing what other people can do, highlighting everybody a little bit more. Now we know what everybody can bring to the table and we're a little more familiar and comfortable with each other. It's all about chemistry."


"When you see something fall down, you pick something up," Odom said. "As individuals, some things have picked up for us. Individual work carries over to team work. If I average 25 points, that's 25 points for the Lakers.

"The ball swings more because we have a different system. Kobe Bryant is great everywhere on the court. He leads the league in triple-doubles."


What happens when he returns?

Does he return, and suddenly the rest of the Lakers suddenly fall back into their defer mode? Or does this team-wide aggressive attitude gain Kobe and take it to another level?

"I think it is going to carry over," Odom said. "For some guys doing well when Kobe is not in the game is a big-time confidence booster."

Echoed Butler: "I think we just came into our own a little more. Once he comes back, now we have this to build on. We have this to add to what he can already do. It will make us that much better."

Kobe leads the league in minutes played (averaging 42 per game). Long term he can only benefit from playing a few less.

The Lakers, and Kobe, should realize now he doesn't have to be on the court every minute, taking every key shot, constantly controlling the tempo.

"I just don't hear we're a hard-working team that's trying to find a way to do it," Tomjanovich said. "And it's surprising.

"I mean, what I see is a hard-working team trying to find itself in a tough place. I'm proud of them. It inspires the hell out of me."

Full article...
http://www.dailynews.com/Stories/0,1413,200~28541~2665398,00.html


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## hotel312 (Jul 13, 2004)

*D*

Yes, technically the Lakers are 3-1 w/out Kobe, but its actually 4-1 because he went out 6 minutes into the Cavs game and the score tied at 15(thats pretty weak if you want to count that). Someone said it right, the other guys are playing better w/out him, and no that will not continue when he comes back because he dominates the ball. Lamar will not be the same because he won't see the ball enough. 

What is the Suns record w/out Nash? 

What would the Spurs record be w/out Duncan?

What would the Cavs record be w/out Lebron?

Thank you very much!! Kobe is a top 5 talent, not a top 5 player.Were Magic and Bird top 5 talents? NO, but they were top 5 players. Greg Anthony stole what I've been saying for years, Kobe is an overgrown Iverson, but he isn't good enough to lead his team to the Finals. 

You guys are so damn blind, I'm sure years from now you still won't see the light. There is no hope. If you were true Laker fans you would be pissed about Kobe and Buss ruining the franchise. I think they must be dating or something.

Noone can touch my facts and I predicted what would happen, peace!


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## hotel312 (Jul 13, 2004)

*Sean*

Wake up Sean, of course the other players are going to say all of the right things. They know that Kobe has been given the keys to the franchise. I don't think a group of 10 year olds would be fooled by those comments. Once again, tell me another team that would have a better record w/out their MVP than with him, that team DOES NOT EXIST! You make my point for me when you wrote that the Lakers are 8-2 when Kobe is not the leading scorer. He is a better player when he tries to be an all-around player and not be like Mike. He should shoot a much better % than he does but he forces too many sgots. Lamar has an advantage on the offensive end every night and they should exploit that more. How many teams are very succesful when the player leading the in shot attempts is shooting 40%?


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## ThaLakeShizzle (Jan 21, 2005)

First of all, the Lakers are not better without Kobe. Them being 8-2 when he is not the leading scorer doesn't mean that he is not playing. This 4-1 start? REmemberw hen the suspensions first got issued? The Pacers team played BRILLIANTLY for a few games and actually got on a winstreak even without their star players O'Neal and Artest. And it's not Kobe's fault if the offense becomes stagnantwhen he's in. It's the other guys fault for not doing their own part and moving around off the ball.


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## lakegz (Mar 31, 2004)

:thand:


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## madskillz1_99 (Dec 5, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>ThaLakeShizzle</b>!
> First of all, the Lakers are not better without Kobe. Them being 8-2 when he is not the leading scorer doesn't mean that he is not playing. This 4-1 start? REmemberw hen the suspensions first got issued? The Pacers team played BRILLIANTLY for a few games and actually got on a winstreak even without their star players O'Neal and Artest. And it's not Kobe's fault if the offense becomes stagnantwhen he's in. It's the other guys fault for not doing their own part and moving around off the ball.


Well then, I guess the Pacers are better without Artest and O'Neal. 

If anyone thinks that the Lakers are better w/o Kobe, well then......:no:


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## h8breed (Jun 25, 2003)

kobe is averging so many TO because he has to bring the ball up court more because chucky sux my deformed left nut and his fg% is down so much ebcause he has that planero flasthitics whatever sstuff

have u been reading what other people haev been saying, all u keep sayng i s "MY FACTS ARE STRIATHGT I AM GOD" etc 

we need kobe if we wanan get to the next level the thing is he needs to find the balance with the team because obviously we have a good enough supporting cast to still win games w/o kobe


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## h8breed (Jun 25, 2003)

waht i was trying to say bascically is our cast is still good w/o kobe, however we wont ever be championship bound unless we got the right kobe


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

What I find funny is that this hotel kid ignores strength of schedule (piss poor), margin of victory (low single digits), and Kobe's +/-.

But have no fear, hotel knows how to watch basketball, let's all listen to his great analysis of why his interpretation of the situation is correct!

No but seriously, hotel, ban yourself.


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## Brian34Cook (Mar 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Sir Patchwork</b>!
> The Lakers best lineups this season have been:
> 
> 1 LAL Atkins-Bryant-Jones-Odom-Cook (55 minutes) +36


:clap: Nice work!


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## luizmelo (Sep 18, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>h8breed</b>!
> kobe is averging so many TO because he has to bring the ball up court more because chucky sux my deformed left nut and his fg% is down so much ebcause he has that planero flasthitics whatever sstuff
> 
> have u been reading what other people haev been saying, all u keep sayng i s "MY FACTS ARE STRIATHGT I AM GOD" etc
> ...


 :yes: No more words... I simple agree!


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## h8breed (Jun 25, 2003)

i bet this hotel guy is the same guy that got banned who spammed Eddy Curry is the best center ever better than shaq just because of some stats


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## hotel312 (Jul 13, 2004)

*EHL/h8breed*

You guys are so pitiful, you make me look like GOD. You have so many excuses for your boy, its sad. Wasn't Penny Hardaway "the next Jordan" when he played with Shaq? What happened to his FG% when Shaq left? I read everything you guys write, but its so weak it barely justifies a response. The other players are stagnate when Kobe is in because he dominates the ball. Odom has a mismatch every night, he should get 20 shots a game. Last year it was the trial, this year its his foot, whats next? Half of you guys probably never played, thats why you are so ignorant about the game, you just watch Sportscenter highlights and whoever they decide to hype. You just make it so easy to say I told you so, look back at my posts, I'm right on the money. I'm trying to educate you youngsters but thwere is no hope. Years from now you'll look back and realize you had an opportunity to learn. Sure they have played some weak teams during this stretch, but a win is a win. Didn't they play the Hornets twice early in the season? Kobe is Lebron's ***** already, imagine what he'll be like in a few years. Its too bad he doesn't have an MVP's coattails to ride. If you believe what the players say you have to be retarded. Enjoy as Kobe takes the franchise down like the Titanic.


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## Foulzilla (Jan 11, 2005)

> Originally posted by <b>Sir Patchwork</b>!
> The Lakers best lineups this season have been:
> 
> 1 LAL Atkins-Bryant-Jones-Odom-Cook (55 minutes) +36
> ...


I'm not going to dignify the question about Kobes worth with a response, however this does bring up something interesting. Notice that in every lineup but one its Jones not Butler? I really like Butler so am surprised to see this. 
Does he just fit in better for some reason?


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## notorious (Jan 17, 2005)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> This guy is obviously typing from Shaq's basement.


:laugh:


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## h8breed (Jun 25, 2003)

your a freaking idiot hotel all i really am disputing with you is that WE Do neeed kobe u said we didnt, we need him to get to the next level, we cant with just our cast. stats wont tell you that your precious stats


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

*Re: EHL/h8breed*



> Originally posted by <b>hotel312</b>!
> Wasn't Penny Hardaway "the next Jordan" when he played with Shaq? What happened to his FG% when Shaq left?


He shot almost exactly the same, actually, until he got injured that season. 



> I read everything you guys write, but its so weak it barely justifies a response.


You can't respond logically, so this isn't in the least surprising. Until you do, you will be laughed at. 



> The other players are stagnate when Kobe is in because he dominates the ball. Odom has a mismatch every night, he should get 20 shots a game.


Odom has never averaged 20 shots a game in his entire career, even when he was the first option on the Heat last season. It also doesn't help that Odom has been passive by nature his entire career, and would rather defer than look for his scoring opportunities aggressively. 

Nice try, but you failed again. :laugh: 



> Last year it was the trial, this year its his foot, whats next? Half of you guys probably never played, thats why you are so ignorant about the game, you just watch Sportscenter highlights and whoever they decide to hype.


I very much doubt you have ever played at any level, nor are you old enough to have played at a level high enough to be even worth mentioning. 



> You just make it so easy to say I told you so, look back at my posts, I'm right on the money. I'm trying to educate you youngsters but thwere is no hope. Years from now you'll look back and realize you had an opportunity to learn.


It's hard to "learn" much from you when everything you said has been consistently shot down with well thought out analysis and facts, all of which you have failed to address. My first post in this thread being one of the many you've conveniently ignored (because you can't argue it). 



> Sure they have played some weak teams during this stretch, but a win is a win.


Is that really the best you can do? "A win is a win". :laugh: 



> Didn't they play the Hornets twice early in the season? Kobe is Lebron's ***** already, imagine what he'll be like in a few years.


Yeah, you're definitely an older and mature person, I can't imagine how we missed it. 



> Its too bad he doesn't have an MVP's coattails to ride. If you believe what the players say you have to be retarded. Enjoy as Kobe takes the franchise down like the Titanic.


The Titanic is in 6th place in the most loaded conference in history. 

Man, you really suck at this debating stuff. Come back when you’re a bit more prepared.


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## h8breed (Jun 25, 2003)

EHL just shot you down 
nice job case closed lets close the book on this one


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## Blink4 (Jan 17, 2005)

one last thing . . . the griz won the other day without pau gasol. there definately better without him rite? how about the lakers 2 latest losses to the sonics and the CLIPPERS. the clippers, jesus christ they lost to the clippers and u say there better off without kobe??? and im interested, what level of basketball have u played on?


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## lakegz (Mar 31, 2004)

and now to a nets team with 8 players.


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## shobe42 (Jun 21, 2002)

still feel like God hotel??

these posts are absoltely the worst series of posts i have ever seen on these boards... i would credit EHL for crushin him but i doubt it was that hard


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