# Mike James agent: 4 years 21 Mill - would you keep?



## charlz (Jun 9, 2003)

Doug Smith was on the FAN590 (prime time sports) and spoke with Mike James agent today JAN 10/2006(Bill Duffy I think). Duffy said " We will give the Raptors the first chance to offer - and something like 4 years 21 mill would get it done".


Doug smith went on to say that he would keep James hands down because of the leadership and intesity and the "bosh-factor". Babcock would be essentially a fool to deal James at the deadline.

I have to admit I have not seen *alot* of mike James prior to this year but if he keeps it up I would try to keep him around as long as he wants that type of money.

please weigh in with your opinions.


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## charlz (Jun 9, 2003)




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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

The unseen cost is Roko Ukic, who may not come to the NBA if he knows he'll be third string behind James and Calderon.

I've personally been really impressed with James and if we can't score a good trade for him I wouldn't object to signing him in the offseason.

I know a lot of people want to max-out our cap space but we have to sign more than one or two players with that or else we have a team with like seven guys.


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## aizn (Jun 19, 2005)

4 years is a long time, but i'd say do it because its only roughly 5 mill a season, n thats how much we pay mo pete. if alvin chooses to retire this season (opt out), then i say sign james


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

We need some veterans when we intend to become a good team. $5M is a reasonable price for a good veteran when the cap is $50M. And in 2007 we will still have cap room even if we sign James.

Keep him.

Also, if we sign him, when could we be able to trade him. (after Dec 15??)


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## Team Mao (Dec 17, 2005)

I don't really get this whole Bosh friendship thing everyone goes on about. I would figure that Bosh would like a PG who passes the ball, and Bosh has shown a few times this season that he's not too happy about James selfishness.
People are a bit too paranoid about Bosh leaving when they start implying things like 'Bosh might leave if we don't resign James'. I think if we can get a decent return for James, Bosh would understand. He's not a selfish moron who wants control of management decisions (shall I name names?).
People are so quick to talk about players on other teams playing for contracts, but when the player is on our team, people conveniently ignore the contract year talk. NBA players play harder when they know they can cash in, then tend to take a dip the next year. _I seriously think that players in contract years should not qualify for the Most Improved Player award. _
Didn't we sign a lot of people to appease our former franchise player? How has that turned out for us?


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## Yao Mania (Aug 4, 2003)

Team Mao said:


> People are so quick to talk about players on other teams playing for contracts, but when the player is on our team, people conveniently ignore the contract year talk. NBA players play harder when they know they can cash in, then tend to take a dip the next year. _I seriously think that players in contract years should not qualify for the Most Improved Player award. _
> Didn't we sign a lot of people to appease our former franchise player? How has that turned out for us?


I can tell u that MJ's not that type of guy that plays for a contract, there's no question that he'll keep up this productivity even after he signs a big deal, this guy plays to win.

And good point about the appeasement thing, but this seems a helluva better deal than what GG signed JVD, AD, and Alvin Williams to back in the days...


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## martymar (Jan 5, 2006)

that's roughly the veterans minimum and it's also NBA mid-level exception so it's pretty easy to move that contract so I don't really see why not


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## MonkeyBallZJr (May 7, 2004)

Yao Mania said:


> I can tell u that MJ's not that type of guy that plays for a contract, there's no question that he'll keep up this productivity even after he signs a big deal, this guy plays to win.
> 
> And good point about the appeasement thing, but this seems a helluva better deal than what GG signed JVD, AD, and Alvin Williams to back in the days...


despite Grundwald overpaying for those guys, they weren't exactly bad moves. AD provided scoring and leadership and AV and JYD are fan favourites. 

Although this contract looks a whole lot better then the Rafer deal, I like what Babcock has done, he knew that signing Rafer was a mistake and he goes out and makes amends for it.


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## changv10 (Apr 25, 2005)

Are you guys kidding me? Mike James is a good guy, a character guy, a veteran, a winner. The guy can shoot the ball from anywhere and can take people off the dribble. Sure he turns the ball over from time to time. Sure he gets blocked in the lane. But I can say that his intensity has been amazing and has got us back to some wins. 

Mike James has been playing like a Gilbert Arenas for us ... tons of scoring, along with a good number of dimes and boards. You CAN'T ask much else. He can be unselfish .. he had at least 1 double double in assists that I remember. 

4 years 21 mil is about 5.25 mil a year ... I'd say that's a good deal for us. 

I hope James feels that he found his niche here in Toronto and WANTS to stay. Toronto gave him the opportunity to start and he has delivered. It's been a good relationship. 

If the decision was this simple, then Babcock should keep James. Now, if James wanted a 4-year 28 mil deal ... then that would be a harder decision, when you have Calderon and Ukic in your plans.


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

I never had a problem with Rafer's contract so this doesn't pose much of a problem with me. We will cotinue to get younger so we'll need some more leadership on this team who can lead by both example and words. 

But I hope Babcock offers a 3 year / 15 mil offer at first


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

I'm a greedy ****er. Trade him for another 1st. Let him opt out, then offer the MLE.


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

Somebody will offer MJ 4 years of the full MLE. That would be over 26 mill. That's a bit too high for us.

But I don't think Mike will just take the highest bid, unless there is a good fit on a competitive team. In Toronto MJ has a big role. He has good chemistry with the guys. His coach trusts him and that relationship is strong. He has been around the league enough to know that good situations like this are rare for a player like him.

I think he would sign the extension here for 4yrs/20mill. And its money well spent for the Raps. Next year Mike will have just as big a role with our club. He will be a key leader to take pressure off Bosh down the stretch of games. Its not about him and Bosh being friends, its that Bosh respects him and needs him to take pressure off down the stretch. 

And even IF Roko comes over in two years he will be a rookie and need time to develop an NBA game. Sam likes to play 2 ballhandling guards anyway and both Roko and MJ can play the 2 spot.

If we draft a super talented wing this summer and Joey works on his game this summer then we may start to have PT issues in 2 years at the SG spot. But at that point MJ will still be extremely productive and only have 2 years left on a very reasonable contract. Or he may be happy coming off the bench if we are a playoff team and he still has a key role at the end of games. Or he could be part of a S&T in summer 2007 for a big FA. Another tradeable asset.

Without MJ next season we would be in big danger of having a horrible season and not attracting any FAs with our cap space. And as we saw with Rafer team chemistry can be a very delicate balance.


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## Benis007 (May 23, 2005)

Thats cheaper than the contract we gave Rafer, and we are getting much more out of James than we ever did out of skip.

I say move him to SG to make room for Roko and Jose... picante!


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

I'd definately sign him for that price range. Mike James finally gets his money, and the Raptors get a solid veteran PG for years to come. And when Roko does eventually come to Toronto, Mike James could always be moved to play SG.


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## RapsFan (Feb 4, 2003)

I think, unless we can trade him for another good vet with a reasonable contract, why not re-sign Mike James for that? Mike has been bouncing around from team to team his whole career. He said he wanted to find a place he can stay long term and make a home. 

Also, Mike James is only 30. You may think that's old, but you see guys in the NBA playing close and even sometimes in their 40's. Mike James has been back up minutes most of his career, 20-25 minutes a game, and he has always been a workout-a-holic so he keep his body in great shape. So when he's 34, I doubt he would have declined that much. 

You need veterans and relative consistency of players and coaches with a team to be successful long-term. Look at the New England Patriots, look at the Detroit Pistons, the San Antonio Spurs, the teams people envy because of their success in their respective sports.

Finally, I'll pose this question: Take a look at the available free agents this summer and who would you want to sign, can be one or more players, for the same amount of money the reported contract is offering rather than James?


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## Benis007 (May 23, 2005)

I'd rather spend money on a servicable FA center.


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## adhir1 (Dec 28, 2004)

name one servicable center we are going to get in that price range...


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## charlz (Jun 9, 2003)

Yao Mania said:


> I can tell u that MJ's not that type of guy that plays for a contract, there's no question that he'll keep up this productivity even after he signs a big deal, this guy plays to win.
> 
> And good point about the appeasement thing, but this seems a helluva better deal than what GG signed JVD, AD, and Alvin Williams to back in the days...


yes shorter contract and less money - can you imagine Alvin is still on the books for 2 more seasons after this one - no wonder the RAPS have been so brutal.


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## Benis007 (May 23, 2005)

adhir1 said:


> name one servicable center we are going to get in that price range...


can anyone help me find a list of upcoming free agents...

when i made the comment i didn't have anyone in particular in mind.. i just think that the raptors need consistency in the middle, allowing Bosh to play PF which he prefers, giving us the rebounding and defensive help that hurts the team game after game.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

^ Off the top of my head I think Blockzilla and Nazr are both FA's this summer.


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## ansoncarter (Dec 22, 2004)

Nene is too I think


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## CrookedJ (May 8, 2003)

I'd re-up James in a second at that deal. I'm honestly surprised that his agent is throwing out a thresehold number like that with months to go in the season.


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## no_free_baskets (Jan 4, 2006)

four years is a little long, but i would do it at that price...worse case scenario, hes a an effective back up pt guard who can give us instant offense off the bench as well as provide good veteran leadership and example to the kids...


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## Benis007 (May 23, 2005)

speedythief said:


> ^ Off the top of my head I think Blockzilla and Nazr are both FA's this summer.


Who is Blockzilla?


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

Pryzbilla


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## pspot (Jul 14, 2004)

i dont mind the money per year but the length is a bit much
i would definetely offer 3 years for 16, even 3 for 17 to get it done
that way he expires right when we need to resign Charlie and Joey
and lets face it hes not exactly a young pup, and the way he plays 4 years is a long way away


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## PersianPlaya18 (Jan 1, 2006)

SIGN HIM! That's a great price.......he brings leadership and is a good veteran presence on the team


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## shookem (Nov 1, 2005)

That seems like a reasonable price to pay. 

I'd do it. If not him who else?


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## TRON (Feb 29, 2004)

If the Raptors are ready to take that next step forward, then Mike James should be signed. 
However if we are still happy with building for the future then maybe we should look to deal him now.

it really depends on what philosophy we choose to follow

I think Mike James could be the best free agent(pg/sg) our team could possibly get this off-season, and while he could be replaced by a younger, cheaper player, the intangibles that he brings to the team will be hard to replace.

Could Mike be part of the Raptors future? I think he could, and if he's asking for Rafer money I think he's worth it.


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

If we trade Mike James, I'm afraid of what sort of message that would send to the players of this organization. From what I've seen, Chris Bosh and Morris Peterson especially have a very good relationship with Mike James on the court. With him on the floor, we are a *much* better team, but if Babcock does decide to trade him, I think a few of our players might be a little dissapointed to say the least. 

Again, it really depends what we'd get in return. Mike James has been off the charts this season, but I don't think any team would offer a 1st round pick for him, and even if they did, would it really be that much better to get a late pick 1st rounder (28th, or 29th for example) in return for James? Mike's leadership on top of everything is something that would be sorely missed in his absence.


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## ansoncarter (Dec 22, 2004)

I wouldn't. Guy is a huge ball hog

he looks great now because all we have is Bosh here. After next years draft people would start getting annoyed with him more for firing 3's and ignoring everyone else. Couple years from now, when we have some good players, people would hate James imo.


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

blowuptheraptors said:


> I'm a greedy ****er. Trade him for another 1st. Let him opt out, then offer the MLE.


That would be my first choice.

I wouldn't be opposed to keeping him - but we have to remember the Roko factor.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

Tempting but I'm still hesitant...

I guess I don't really want to draft a (nother) point guard so I guess a signing is likely the way to go. Give Roko another year with Tau; two if necessary. I wouldn't want to sign them both the same year. 

Sure, I like what he brings to the table as a veteran. If nothing else he's a very good backup. Cap space is nice but you've gotta spend when the opportunity presents itself.

I'd be happy with a trade too; I just don't want to see him leave for nothing.


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## Yao Mania (Aug 4, 2003)

Pryzilla ain't gonna come cheap next year, think I read on the Blazers board that he's looking at a 6yr/50mil contract or something like that.


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## Slade (Dec 7, 2005)

I wouldn't mind keeping him...but he seems to be a shoot first and pass second kind of PG. I'd rather have some of those shots taken by Bosh who is the centerpiece of the Raptors.


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## ansoncarter (Dec 22, 2004)

that puts portland out of the running then (right?). They can only offer him the full exception right now iirc

if we move Jalen we could take a run at him. He's perfect for Bosh isn't he?


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## RapsFan (Feb 4, 2003)

Sure he may take some ill-advised shots, but that just shows confidence. Just because he thinks he can make shots does not make him a ball hog. I've seen him many times drive and dish it out to open teammates. Plus, him and Calderon have been effective this year as a backcourt combo because Calderon is more the pass first PG. Kind of reminds me of the Maple Leafs and the tandem of Kaberle and McCabe, where Kaberle passes most of the time and McCabe takes the shots but can also pass when necessary. 

Anyways, back on topic, you need guys who have the confidence to take the last shot to win the game and think they will make it. Someone other than your superstar, which was a problem some of the time when Vince was here and players deferred to him a lot for last shot heroics and would just stand around watching. Mike has proven that he can be pretty clutch this season doing that. Making big threes late in the game, or at crucial moments.


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## Team Mao (Dec 17, 2005)

^^^^^^^
They were playing great together earlier in the season when Mike deferred PG duties to Jose, but lately when the two are on the court, Mike assumes both PG and SG duties while Jose doesn't get the ball.
Why should we give the guy who might not be here next year the experience in clutch situations, why not give it to our future guys and give them some experience. If they miss a few, so be it, but they need to get some chances in late game situations.

The more you look at it objectively, the more you can see that Mike James is playing for a contract, and 'the name on the back of the jersey'. Of course he's going to say how he really likes Toronto, I bet that when he was in Boston, Detroit, Milwaukee, Houston (am I missing anyone?), he loved all those places. It's just a savvy move on his part and his agent's part, they're going through the media saying these things to put the pressure on Babcock to resign James to a longer and more expensive deal than he really deserves.

Now I know that you guys obviously know him personally, so you can say things like 'oh he's not the kind of guy who plays for a contract'. Hell, maybe he is, and I'm totally wrong, but look at players in the past decade or so and look how they performed in contract years and then the year after. 

This is the guy who said publicly 'I PLAY FOR THE NAME ON THE BACK OF THE JERSEY, NOT THE FRONT'. Last time I checked, it only says RAPTORS on the front of the jersey.


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## RapsFan (Feb 4, 2003)

^^^I don't know the circumstances around that quote but maybe he said that because no one has ever re-signed him? How can he show any loyalty when teams just keep on passing him up when his contract expires? Maybe if a team showed loyalty to him, he'd show it back?

And with the whole 'playing for a contract in his contract year' thing, yes there have been players who have done it, and no one knows one way or another if he is or isn't obviously. But Bosh has jumped his ppg from 16 to 22 this year? Is he playing for a big contract and then planningto not do as well afterwards and just take the money? Should we be suspicious of every player who has a good year, and be hesitant to sign them? 

Joe Johnson played extremely well for the Suns last year and people were saying that it was in his contract year and he wouldn't do nearly as well after he signed the big deal. Last I checked, he is still putting up pretty good numbers on the Hawks.


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## Team Mao (Dec 17, 2005)

RapsFan said:


> ^^^I don't know the circumstances around that quote but maybe he said that because no one has ever re-signed him? *How can he show any loyalty when teams just keep on passing him up when his contract expires?* Maybe if a team showed loyalty to him, he'd show it back?


Exactly, I can't see how that has changed though in half a season. Still playing for the name on the back. Maybe he would, maybe he wouldn't, from that quote though, he sounds pretty jaded.



RapsFan said:


> And with the whole 'playing for a contract in his contract year' thing, yes there have been players who have done it, and no one knows one way or another if he is or isn't obviously. But Bosh has jumped his ppg from 16 to 22 this year? Is he playing for a big contract and then planningto not do as well afterwards and just take the money? Should we be suspicious of every player who has a good year, and be hesitant to sign them?


Bosh improving in his third season and at the age of 21 is a really poor comparison to a guy who is 30 and has been around the block a few times.



RapsFan said:


> Joe Johnson played extremely well for the Suns last year and people were saying that it was in his contract year and he wouldn't do nearly as well after he signed the big deal. Last I checked, he is still putting up pretty good numbers on the Hawks.


Again, another young player. Plus, Joe Johnson last year on the Suns wasn't nearly as selfsih as James this year.

Look, we disagree about the playing for a contract thing, I don't think we'll ever agree.

But, based on what I've seen in the games, the quotes I've heard, his age, and the fact (as you've pointed out) that no team has shown him loyalty over the years, I would be inclined to think that he is one of the many players who play for contracts. Is it a bad thing to play for a contract? I don't think so. If you've ever been up for periodic review at a job, you know that you start paying more attention to detail, working a bit harder, showing up early, staying late. It's kind of a survival mechanism, financial survival.


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## foul_balls (Jun 25, 2004)

I was initially against the first trade but Mike has more than exceeded my expectations. His ability to break people down off the dribble is great and creates havoc on opposing defenses. And I like the intensity and leadership that he brings. even though he still shoots too much. 

Having said that though, I am worried about signing him for 4 years. He is 31 (2 years younger than Jalen) and we have all seen the drop-off in Jalen's play. The fact that he plays the point makes it even worse since I personally believe that the drop-off in production at the point is more pronounced. (Tony Delk, Gary Payton come to mind). Do we really want to pay a 3rd string PG/SG (which is what he will become) $5 million in 2009-10?

The only PG's older than 33 in the NBA right now are below:
Darrell Armstrong 37 (bit player)
Rick Brunson 33 (bit player)
Sam Cassell 36 rejuvenated this season
Nick Van Exel 34 (bit player)

3 years would be perfect in my opinion. However, Toronto will have lots of cap space in year 4, which makes it more bearable, since they will have some cap space to waste.

I would try to package him with Jalen's contract to free up cap space for next year to sign Nene, Francisco Elson, Nazr Mohammed, Fred Jones, or some other up-and-comer. They are the ones that are gonna help in the long-term. Then we can try to re-sign MJ if there is room.


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## RapsFan (Feb 4, 2003)

Team Mao said:


> Exactly, I can't see how that has changed though in half a season. Still playing for the name on the back. Maybe he would, maybe he wouldn't, from that quote though, he sounds pretty jaded.


Later on in your post you mention financial survival, but that quote may have been another instinctual response, maybe not for survival, but a human want for some stability but never getting it? 



> Bosh improving in his third season and at the age of 21 is a really poor comparison to a guy who is 30 and has been around the block a few times.


But if you look at Mike James' career numbers, especially his numbers the past couple years, his numbers aren't all that much different. His scoring has increased because his minutes and responsibilities have done so this year. 



> Again, another young player. Plus, Joe Johnson last year on the Suns wasn't nearly as selfsih as James this year.


Well of course he wasn't as selfish as Mike James this year. Look at who he had on his team. He had guys like Amare Stoudemire who was an instant dunk. Another All-Star calibre player in Shawn Marion. Steve Nash also held most of the PG responsibilities when he was healthy. There's an example then, Steve Nash. He did not have his career, MVP-type year until after he got his contract from the Suns, and was 30 years old. Not saying they are the same calibre player, but just pointing out that 30 year olds can still have their best years even after they get big contracts.



> Look, we disagree about the playing for a contract thing, I don't think we'll ever agree.
> But, based on what I've seen in the games, the quotes I've heard, his age, and the fact (as you've pointed out) that no team has shown him loyalty over the years, I would be inclined to think that he is one of the many players who play for contracts. Is it a bad thing to play for a contract? I don't think so. If you've ever been up for periodic review at a job, you know that you start paying more attention to detail, working a bit harder, showing up early, staying late. It's kind of a survival mechanism, financial survival.


Well in a way you are kind of saying it is bad because it is a reason you state for not resigning James. But you're right, in this instance, we are probably not going to agree. It's fun debating though right?


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## foul_balls (Jun 25, 2004)

Another guy we could sign with a little cap space if Jalen and MJ go: Trevor Ariza who's fallen out of favour in NY


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## The Truth IV (Nov 3, 2005)

I agree with Foul Balls - you don't see very many effective PGs older than 31 (other than the hall of fame guys like Payton and Kidd who get 3-4 extra years on raw talent + respect from the refs).

I'm confused by the Bosh-James relationship. I hear Bosh say positive things about James in the media, and on this board there seems to be a connection drawn between re-signing James and the likelihood of re-signing Bosh, but on the floor I see the opposite.

Bosh gets visibly frustrated at James when he doesn't get him the ball properly. I've seen Bosh scream at James on the way to the bench at time-outs. Look at the end of Chicago game where James gave Bosh 2-3 lousy passes on consecutive trips down the floor.

Do these guys get along or no?


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## shookem (Nov 1, 2005)

I think James would be an effective 3rd string PG/SG in the last years of a four year contract.
Anyone who watches the games can see what an impact he has had on this team this season. It's undeniable.
The contract is probably a year too long, but that's just the price you pay. The Raps are still not a club that will be first choice on many FA's list in the coming offseason, and if we've found a competent, leader/mentor, who can play multiple positions, we can't let him go.

Change the culture, and since I do not know James personally, I will refer to his actions on the court. The actions that demonstrate this team is better with James.


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## Benis007 (May 23, 2005)

done some thinking and i think it would be a good deal for the raps..

pull the trigger babs.


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## shookem (Nov 1, 2005)

Benis007 said:


> done some thinking and i think it would be a good deal for the raps..
> 
> pull the trigger babs.


It took me a while to warm to the idea as well, but if you really think about all the factors, it's easy to see it's a good idea.

Keep him. I can't believe his agent put those figures out so early and kinda low.


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## Air Fly (Apr 19, 2005)

You go ahead and do it, there is no other way to explain how this guy benefited the raptors this season.

He provides scoring, leadership and plays hard every night plus the chemistry between him and Bosh is just awsome. They also have one attitude in common and that is to "win" everytime they step on the floor.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

^ Their on-court chemistry needs work. Bosh screamed at James for a minute or two during the Chicago game and has been getting on him a lot lately about taking too long to feed the post. I'd go so far as to say that Jose and Chris have better chemistry.

If we don't trade James we'll have time this year to see what kind of flow he can develop within our structure. Right now he is a bit of a lone gunman. He hasn't made too many "great" passes this year (the alley to Bosh the other night being one of them) and I hope that is more the case of not having a lot of experience with the team than it is his natural style.

James has proven that he is worth this kind of money, I think, but I don't know if he's proven that he's worth this kind of money to the Raptors, yet. He provides us with a good deal of leadership and he is a tone-setting kind of player but I wonder if he's really a starter or someone who is a tremendous spark off the bench.

I said earlier in this thread that I wouldn't object to re-signing him, and at this point that's true, but I hope his role on the floor becomes more clearly defined as the season drags on.


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## Junkyard Dog13 (Aug 9, 2003)

I like 3 years 15 mill


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## Air Fly (Apr 19, 2005)

speedythief said:


> ^ Their on-court chemistry needs work. Bosh screamed at James for a minute or two during the Chicago game and has been getting on him a lot lately about taking too long to feed the post. I'd go so far as to say that Jose and Chris have better chemistry.


I noticed that too, but that shouldn't continue on. If the teams keeps winning and Bosh gets his usual numbers, i don't think they'll have chemistry problems anymore.

Sometimes, James seems too selfish and he should stop that if he wants to get re-signed IMO...but nonethelss, it would be really nice if raps can hang on him cuz he proved that he's a good PG and indeed a better fit for this team than Skip and has a winning mentality.


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## Vinsane (Feb 27, 2005)

4 years 21 mil is reasonable
now the rafer alston signing was terrible


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## Team Mao (Dec 17, 2005)

speedythief said:


> ^ Their on-court chemistry needs work. Bosh screamed at James for a minute or two during the Chicago game and has been getting on him a lot lately about taking too long to feed the post. I'd go so far as to say that Jose and Chris have better chemistry.
> 
> If we don't trade James we'll have time this year to see what kind of flow he can develop within our structure. Right now he is a bit of a lone gunman. *He hasn't made too many "great" passes this year (the alley to Bosh the other night being one of them) and I hope that is more the case of not having a lot of experience with the team than it is his natural style*.
> 
> ...


I have to disagree about the experience with the team thing. I mean at the beginning of the season, Jose was making good passes, not just passes for the finish but solid pass which are well positioned for the players. And Jose was not only inexperienced with the team, but with the league. Mike James is just not a passing PG, he is a short SG who gets called a PG, because a 6'1" PG sounds better than 6'1" SG. 

Mike James is very talented, he's a great scorer, seems to be a really fired up. But he's not a passing PG. I think when our franchise player is a PF, we need a PG who is more of a court-general, than one who scores a lot. This season is it's good that he's here because we need a second scorer this year. But in the future, i think it's best for this club to have a true PG, not an undersized 2. We could also stand to develop a more sophisticated offence than screen and roll and ISO Bosh, wait actually there's the play we run for MoPete on the 1st possession of each game. Okay, we've got 3 plays.


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## sjinto (Oct 7, 2005)

Book it!

Roko hasn't played one minute in the NBA yet... who knows what to expect

Jose looked good early but there's a lot of room for improvement in his game

We need a veteran guard just like Mike James both on the court and off


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## flushingflash (Jan 4, 2006)

we can't afford not to sign him at this point, the raps need vetrans and leaders if we wanna win and we cant just pack this team full of young guys and hope to make the playoffs this year or even next. look at the hawks, they have talent and athletisicm but no leaders and vets like the raptors and they look completely lost out there at times.


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## Team Mao (Dec 17, 2005)

flushingflash said:


> we can't afford not to sign him at this point, the raps need vetrans and leaders if we wanna win and we cant just pack this team full of young guys and hope to make the playoffs this year or even next. look at the hawks, they have talent and athletisicm but no leaders and vets like the raptors and they look completely lost out there at times.


We need veterans and leaders, not a 6'1" SG playing PG. But we need veterans and leaders who are 'team' players, not the 'Mike James One Man Offence' show. I think that vets like Eric Williams, Aaron Williams and Darrick Martin, even though they don't play much are extremely valuable to the development of the team.

He has helped us win a few games this year, I can't argue that point. But his style of play is not helping to develop anything other than his contract value. Too many fans are stuck in the immediate gratification mode without any patience for development, that's what leads to so many 'treadmill' teams playing for the 8 spot every year.

When you watch Mike James drive to the hole or when he's on a fast break, you know that he's not going to pass to anyone, is that a trait of a true PG who helps players around him get better? He drives with his head down, so it would be almost impossible for him to see anyone well enough to pass the ball. It's ugly to watch, REALLY ugly.

If you look at the top PGs in the league today, I would argue Nash, Kidd, maybe Baron Davis. They are all talented offensively, but what truly makes them special is their ability to make players around them better. I'm not saying that Calderon will ever be that calibre of player, but I do see the quality in him that he can make other players better. I don't think there is much coincidence in guys like Hoffa and CV having some of their better games of the year when Jose was putting in big minutes at PG. 

I've argued this so many times now, I;m getting tired. I just hope that Babcock doesn't make the mistake of keeping the guy and getting shanghai'd into giving him more than a 3 year deal. If Babcock is serious about rebuilding, than he should look for a PG who will distribute the ball a bit better and help the young guys develop, something that clearly doesn't happen with Mike James on the floor.

Oh, and could people stop calling him MJ, there will only ever be one MJ.


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## ansoncarter (Dec 22, 2004)

the guy putting our team together isn't really trying to make the playoffs this year. Or next year. 

I liked our boards better when we were 1-15. Everyone was on the same page lol

liked the look of our future better too


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## RapsFan (Feb 4, 2003)

Team Mao said:


> If you look at the top PGs in the league today, I would argue Nash, Kidd, *maybe Baron Davis*.


I dont know how you can list Baron Davis with those two. Baron does the same thing you accuse Mike James does that makes him a bad pg and a sg in a pg's body. Davis jacks up shots, and 3 pointers like Mike James does. 

You'll probably argue that, well he does make his teammates better because look where New Orleans is without him, or look where Golden State is with him. Well, same can be said for Mike James. The Bucks became better when Mike James was the backup PG. The Pistons became better when Mike James was the backup PG. Even the Rockets last year became better when they acquired him.


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## ansoncarter (Dec 22, 2004)

detroit added Rasheed same time as Mike

and Miluakee picked up Kukoc the same year as Mike. Can't remember but that also might have been the year Redd broke out

and houston picked up Tracy Mcgrady same time as mike iirc

not like mike took those teams on his back


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## RapsFan (Feb 4, 2003)

Baron had a relatively healthy Mashburn and emerging Magloire and still very reliable David Wesley when New Orleans was doing well. 

Golden State also acquired Derek Fisher, Dunleavy improved, as well as Jason Richardson and Troy Murphy. 

So not like Baron Davis, put his teams on his back either.


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## Team Mao (Dec 17, 2005)

If you look back at the post I said MAYBE Baron Davis. But if you look at the turn around the Warriors had after adding him and Murphy and Richardson both improved their games in the second half of that season.

I think it's a huge stretch to say that Detroit and Milwaukee became better because of Mike James.

Can you honestly say that Mike James makes the players around him better or is it more that Mike James puts a lot of points on the board for this team? There is a big difference between the two. 

As per usual I agree with AnsonCarter in that I liked the look of the team early in the season when you could see some promise for the future with the development of our young guys. Lately I've seen some wins against mediocre teams with guys who are soon to go leading the charge. People who think this team can make the playoffs are fooling themselves. If we can have some patience about things, the team could really develop into a force in 2 or 3 years, but everyone thinks rebuilding is a 1 and a half season project. The 'Immediate Gratification' culture makes it almost impossible to develop a young group of players into a cohesive unit. Oh well, let's go for the spinning our wheels for the 8th spot mode, where we become the 76ers, perennial 8th seed.


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## RapsFan (Feb 4, 2003)

Why does one player have to make other players around him better? That means those players don't have the motivation to be better themselves and are just relying on another player to make it easier for them. Do Jason Kidd and Steve Nash actually make the other players better, or just make things easier for them? To me, there is a difference there. 

And what is wrong about liking that the team is getting wins? It means they are learning what needs to be done in order to win in the league. You can't just switch winning on and off and say, "We need to keep losing so we can get a very high draft pick and then after we get it we'll finally start trying to win and we'll be dominant."

I think that's what Donald Sterling kept the Clippers fans thinking every year. "Oh, but at least we'll get a high draft pick and things will be better next year..." It wasn't until this season, when they traded for a savvy and rejuvenated Cassell (who is in his late 30's) that they got out of being one of the jokes in the league. 

It's nice to rebuild and have patience, but what happens when that rebuilding is happening contantly? What if, when the year we're supposed to be a great team we don't start out too well and our players revert back to the losing way of thinking, "this season is over, we're too far away from the playoffs, I'm just going to pack it in so we at least get that high draft pick.." How many times do you want to say, "Just wait 2 or 3 years..." ?


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## Team Mao (Dec 17, 2005)

RapsFan said:


> Why does one player have to make other players around him better? That means those players don't have the motivation to be better themselves and are just relying on another player to make it easier for them. Do Jason Kidd and Steve Nash actually make the other players better, or just make things easier for them? To me, there is a difference there.


So, let me get this straight. All the players around Steve Nash last year on the Suns had no motivation to better themselves, they were just lazy and relying on Nash to make them better. :clap: 

It seems that you and I have two very different ideas of what a PG's role should be in the offence. You seem to be a Mike James fan and I prefer a passing PG like our Spanish rookie.



RapsFan said:


> ...and our players revert back to the losing way of thinking, "this season is over, we're too far away from the playoffs, I'm just going to pack it in so we at least get that high draft pick.." How many times do you want to say, "Just wait 2 or 3 years..." ?


Yeah, I'm sure players talk about the draft pick all the time.

Will it take 2 or 3 years? Probably yes because Babcock inherited a salary cap mess with very few tradeable pieces. If I thought Mike James was helping in the development of this young team, I'd be on his side, but I just don't see it that way. He all too often looks off open players, he looks for the shot first, then the pass, and he simply refuses to pass to some players and put them in position to score.

If you want to be a fan of a playoff team this year. Go choose another team to root for, because this team ain't going there. And if we continue playing guys who are leaving, we're just going to slow down the rebuilding even more. Maybe you're content with winning 33 games every season and band-aid roster fixes. Not me, I'm willing to wait for a contender, and if the cards are played well, we can be one in a few years with the nice young group we're putting together.


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## RapsFan (Feb 4, 2003)

Team Mao said:


> So, let me get this straight. All the players around Steve Nash last year on the Suns had no motivation to better themselves, they were just lazy and relying on Nash to make them better. :clap:


Well the way you say it that's what it seems like. Just look at the wording, "makes his teammates better". Why should one player make his teammates better? Shouldn't they be becoming better by themselves? Has Amare gotten better because of Nash? He receives the ball in the paint from a great Nash feed and dunks it. That to me, is not an improvement, just an easy basket to make for him because of his athleticism. I have nothing against it because it is very efficient and successful. He does have an improved jumpshot, but he improved that shot by himself, not because Nash has a magic spell on the ball to make his shot better.

My point is, a point guard should make things easier for his teammates, not make them better. And James can amke things easier for his teammates by being a very good scorer and drawing defenders to him on drives so that someone is open for the kick back. You say he just bulldozes head down to the basket when he drives, but most of the times he does do that he gets the layup. There have been many times that he has dished the ball out for a wide open 3 or mid range shot, or interior dunk.



> Yeah, I'm sure players talk about the draft pick all the time.


Well maybe not the draft pick, but if they believe losing is okay because the team is rebuilding or they think they aren't as talented as the other team, then they won't have that winning attitude for later when they should be winning. It can't just be switched on and off. Winners are winners. 



> Will it take 2 or 3 years? Probably yes because Babcock inherited a salary cap mess with very few tradeable pieces. If I thought Mike James was helping in the development of this young team, I'd be on his side, but I just don't see it that way. He all too often looks off open players, he looks for the shot first, then the pass, and he simply refuses to pass to some players and put them in position to score.


In games where Vince was the primary ballhandler did we not want him to drive more to the basket and not just shoot from the baseline? So we could get more free throw attempts as a team. If we had other players who could slash like Mike, or other players who could score as well as Mike he wouldn't have to as much. Plus, on nights when Mike is hot and on pace for 30 plus point nights, he should be given some license to try to score. Also, I believe we are getting a whole lot more free throw attempts this year as opposed to year's past which is keeping us in games.



> If you want to be a fan of a playoff team this year. Go choose another team to root for, because this team ain't going there. And if we continue playing guys who are leaving, we're just going to slow down the rebuilding even more. Maybe you're content with winning 33 games every season and band-aid roster fixes. Not me, I'm willing to wait for a contender, and if the cards are played well, we can be one in a few years with the nice young group we're putting together.


If you want to have 15 win seasons until maybe one 50 win one, with a glimmer of a chance at a championship all based on potential and chance that is fine too. Then have to start rebuilding again because you can't re-sign all your nice young players off their rookie contracts, that is fine too.


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

If we're winning these games with the same squad that started 1-15... doesn't that mean we're not a 1-15 team anymore? So why would we try being a 1-15 team again?

Our draft pick will be where it should be. It might not be the #1 pick, but it will be a good one regardless. The way we're winning games and losing games is so much better for the team in the long run, than it would be to ship off arguably our most clutch performer midway through a rebuilding season.


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## shookem (Nov 1, 2005)

Mike James is in the top 20 for total assists. Not amazing (Jose is #21), but good enough to say he helps this team even in the narrowist of definitions.

Besides, teams need to win to rebuild. We need to win to keep Bosh, attract FA's and develope something more valuable then a few extra minutes for the rook's: a _winning culture_.

Toronto isn't Atlanta or LA, we can't afford to be a joke as long as the Knicks, Clippers and Hawks.
Players will always be willing to play in places like NY and LA, the same can not be said for Toronto. We have a lot of issues with attracting and keeping talent in the best of times, let alone if we're the laughing stock of the NBA.

Perception is reality. And we will unfortunatly be viewed as Siberia. Since day one, Toronto has always been an underdog franchise in the league, from restricting our draft picks, to having us play with a lower salary cap. 

Our limited success was like a cherry bomb exploding in your hand. Spectacular and violent, but we must lick our wounds and move on, our survival depends on it. Sure MLSE owns the team and with that comes a great deal of security, but only security from re-locating, that ownership group knows nothing about assembling championship teams. 

Because of this we cannot take as long to rebuild as other teams. Rebuilding is necessary and is absolutly the right path to take, the only path. But if some where along that path, we find a diamond in the rough, well, to the finder go the spoils. We just gotta keep our spoils.


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

^^^Exactly. Mike James isn't a band-aid fix that helps us win games by sabotaging our future. He's helping us win games playing with our future, and he brings positive energy to the team. He works great in a two-point guard situation (like we ran a lot back in the day with Alvin and Chris Childs), but as shookem mentioned he also rakes in his share of assists.

Of course in a perfect world, we trade him for a draft pick and then re-sign him in the offseason, but in a perfect world, Mike James isn't at a point in his career where security is the biggest factor. He wants to stick with a team, and if he doesn't play this season out with us he'll probably look elsewhere.


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## Team Mao (Dec 17, 2005)

Budweiser_Boy said:


> If we're winning these games with the same squad that started 1-15... doesn't that mean we're not a 1-15 team anymore? So why would we try being a 1-15 team again?


Let's see, in November (much tougher schedule), we played the rookies and Hoffa a lot, Jose ran the point and Bonner got relatively few minutes.

Since then (easy schedule), we played the rookies and Hoffa less, Jalen played more, Jose was injured for a few games and lost the PG duties, and Bonner got huge minutes.

Not exactly the same squad. Not even really close. Watching the games in November, I could see the young guys improving, especially Hoffa. We lost a lot of close games to good teams. And I believe the players can learn from losing tight games as well as winning, losing those types of games can make players that much hungrier for wins and being hungry leads to hard work. 
The only thing I've seen improve lately is Jalen ROse's trade stock and Mike James' contract demands. I haven't seen any improvement from the young players. Is that the fault of the young guys, I'd argue no. Many rookies around the league seem to be improving as the season goes on (take a look at the hated Knicks, 6 game win streak against some really good teams with 3 rookies playing big minutes). Sam gave up on them too early.

Okay, this is getting way too off topic. I'll leave it alone. But think about this, if we sign Mike James to a 4 year contract, you can forget about Roko Ukic coming over anytime during those four years.


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## shookem (Nov 1, 2005)

Team Mao said:


> Okay, this is getting way too off topic. I'll leave it alone. But think about this, if we sign Mike James to a 4 year contract, you can forget about Roko Ukic coming over anytime during those four years.


Everyone is allowed to have an opinion, you just don't back your's up.

You have no knowledge to back up those assumptions, none.

If you haven't see ANY improvement out of the young players then you haven't been watching the games.

Hoffa is getting roughly the same amount of time as he was at the begining. Besides anyone who thinks Hoffa's development trumps winning games is a little out to lunch.

What makes you think Sam has given up on the Rook's? Because they have now played an entire NCAA season and Sam isn't throwing them to the fire?


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

What is with all this talk about the young guys not getting as much playing time? The only thing that's changed is Jalen Rose's play on the court, so he's gotten more minutes. That mainly derived from the fact that Calderon got injured, giving Rose an opportunity to showcase his skills again and get back into the rotation. 

Charlie Villanueva isn't getting as many minutes as before, but that's mainly because of Bonner's play on both ends of the court. Bonner started the season ice cold, he strayed away from what made him a valuable player to this team. But as the season progressed he started to find his shot more, and he's made a lot of big buckets for us down the stretch. However, of late Bonner has cooled down a bit so those minutes are really anyone's for the taking right now.

Sam Mitchell isn't going out of his way to play the older guys, he's just giving minutes to whoever deserves them.


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## Team Mao (Dec 17, 2005)

shookem said:


> Everyone is allowed to have an opinion, you just don't back your's up.
> 
> You have no knowledge to back up those assumptions, none.
> 
> ...


What exactly have you done to back your's up?

What improvement have you seen in the month of December? I've watched every game this season and the rookies have plateaued. Please give me some tangible examples of improvement.

I never said Hoffa's development, I've talked about all the young guys. Hoffa, CV, Joey, Jose. Is their development worth the difference between 25 and 33 wins. Yeah, I think it is. I like to see the team win, but I also like to see a team with a future. And lately the team with the best looking future is the hated Knicks who have managed to get way more out of their rookie bunch who I personally feel aren't as talented as our three.

Sam threw them to the fire when he threw them at the tough November schedule rather than bring them along slowly. Look at the schedule, at the opponents, look at how much the vets played and the rookies played against the tough opponents in November. There is your proof to back up my opinion.


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## shookem (Nov 1, 2005)

My proof is in the pudding, by checking the boxscore the next day you cannot tell but the rookies are more secure in their roles. The entire team is. In November we had the same amount of talent, but no one knew what to do on the court, including our vets.

Currently this squad is playing like a team, making the extra pass, helping out on D.

Remember that maybe the rooks can only handle what Sam is giving them, they very well could be worn out and cannot play as many minutes.

Fyre has spent time on the bench and will again, same with Nate. Paul got injured, possibly from being over played, Bogut has jumped between starting and a bench role, Marvin has been a bench player, Deron has a role and plays it.

Why do you think our rookies and hoffa are different then every other rookie in the league?


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## Team Mao (Dec 17, 2005)

shookem said:


> Fyre has spent time on the bench and will again, same with Nate. Paul got injured, possibly from being over played, Bogut has jumped between starting and a bench role, Marvin has been a bench player, Deron has a role and plays it.
> 
> Why do you think our rookies and hoffa are different then every other rookie in the league?


Exactly, Frye, Lee and Robinson have all spent time on the bench this season and have had to work their way into the minutes they have now. Sam gave the rookies too many minutes early. I never talked about Paul, Bogut or Williams, never. I talked about the Knicks who are in a rebuilding mode with a lot of young players. They have a more experienced coach who has been able to get much more development out of less talent(in my opinion). Both Robinson and Lee have improved considerably over the course of the season, while CV, Graham and Jose all had their biggest games at the beginning of the season, and haven't really shown much improvement through the season. 



shookem said:


> My proof is in the pudding, by checking the boxscore the next day you cannot tell but the rookies are more secure in their roles.



Why do you keep implying that all I do is look at the boxscores. It's insulting, it's far from true and it's really starting to p*** me off. There's this wonderful thing called the internet, and some wonderful websites where people upload the games to the internet, I then download these games and then watch them, every single one.


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## Slasher (Jul 11, 2003)

Benis007 said:


> Thats cheaper than the contract we gave Rafer, and we are getting much more out of James than we ever did out of skip.
> 
> I say move him to SG to make room for Roko and Jose... picante!


I actually like that idea of moving Mike James to the off-guard. Reminds me of the combination of Alvin Williams and Chris Childs that Lenny Wilkins played around with years ago -- of course with James being a more talented player than Childs was. This could work, especially if we had Calderon starting at the point, James at the shooting guard, and Roko-Leni Ukic coming off the bench next season.


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## shookem (Nov 1, 2005)

Team Mao said:


> Exactly, Frye, Lee and Robinson have all spent time on the bench this season and have had to work their way into the minutes they have now. Sam gave the rookies too many minutes early. I never talked about Paul, Bogut or Williams, never. I talked about the Knicks who are in a rebuilding mode with a lot of young players. They have a more experienced coach who has been able to get much more development out of less talent(in my opinion). Both Robinson and Lee have improved considerably over the course of the season, while CV, Graham and Jose all had their biggest games at the beginning of the season, and haven't really shown much improvement through the season.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I don't imply, I infer based on what you write on these boards. The rookies have been developing and Sam is not LB, to expect him to be is silly.

JG is playing about the same minutes, he's scoring and rebounding a little less, but that's not Sam's fault.
Charlie V had back to back 20+ points games A WEEK AGO, illustrating the development either you can't see, or just ignore.
Jose has been injured and hasn't been playing well.
Hoffa has been playing the same minutes since the begining of the season.

You are looking at the last two games and making a snap decision.

Other then that the young players on this team are doing great. Bosh is developing quickly, as is Bonner. The team is developing and that's a good thing for the rookies.

And don't be so sensitive.


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

Mao - it is the same squad. Charlie V didn't get rookie of the month honours by sitting on the bench. We didn't have all three of our rookies in the top-10 rankings by them sitting on the bench. To say Sam just went out and played the vets, relegating the rookies' roles when they arguably played BETTER while we were winning, is asinine.

The reason the Raptors are winning more isn't because of some conspiracy Sam has going to keep his job, it's because the rookies are improving, the team is gelling, the schedule is easier, and the vets stepped up. Sam didn't play Jalen in November because, as you've undoubtedly noticed, he played like *** in November. His play picked up and gradually, so did his minutes. The better the team plays, the more wins they get... it's simple mathematics.


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## ballocks (May 15, 2003)

i love mike james. this guy has won me over hook, line and sinker. i'm starting to think it'll be important to re-sign him this year- and wouldn't you know it, the media's been writing on the same issue quite a bit of late. coincidence? doubt it. they've played a role, too...(jerks)

still, i don't know whether the terms specified in this thread are legit, but an mle investment in this kind of player is well worth it, and i'd seriously mull it over come july. i love how he seems to be giving the raps the option of matching whatever offer he gets on the market, and if he does the same come free agency season, i'd find it hard to not bring him back. he's the kind of energy i think we need for the next generation; mike james brings it in droves.

really, people will argue both sides till the cows come home, like usual, but i'm loving the "veterans" we have on this team: mop, mike and jalen (in that order). to build a strong team full of youth, like we're trying to do, more than youth is almost always required. i don't know if it's maturity, i don't know if it's enthusiasm, i don't know if it's leadership or what, but these guys are bringing it (imo). we're building from the bottom up with them lying there as the foundation. as a result, i think bringing mike back into the fold for the mle or some amount in the same ballpark would be more than fair- and important. i think i'd do it, and given how he's played to date- and how he fits with... seemingly *everything* around here- i'd be a little crazy not to.

can't remember the last time a player won over my basketball heart to the same degree so quickly and surprisingly- it's been, what, 35 games? hard to believe.

what a trade. what a ####### trade. :cheers: 

peace


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## Team Mao (Dec 17, 2005)

Okay, my feelings have been known, but I've come to accept that Mike James will most likely be with the Raptors for the next few seasons. So, I'm going to have to learn to love (or at least like the guy). 

What I would like to see more of is Mike James playing off the ball, both this season and in the future, depending on matchups and so on. He does have more of a SG mentality than a PG so hopefully we can use him that way, that way there wouldn't be any more shoot-first PG comments because as a SG, that's his job. 

After thinking about it more, reading some comments and reading the article where Bosh said that he would like to keep James here, I don't think that the contract is unreasonable. I would like to see it at 3 years instead of four but the trend in the past few years is that the players all seem to get a year more on their contract than they should. Hopefully, in a few seasons, he would be willing to accept a backup role, and give us the energy off the bench and down the stretch, like an older Ben Gordon (I don't think that comparison is that far off-base). 

What I really don't want to see is that we keep him until the end of this season and then lose him in the offseason if his contract gets out of reach. If we lose him for nothing it would be a big blow to the club, much more than dealing him at the break. I hope Babcock has a good agreement in place to resign him. Cap guys, would that contract push us into luxury tax zone?

So, I give you my word, I will try to see the positives in this guy since it looks very likely that he could be around next season. I won't post anymore James trades. I won't even post anything negative about James, can't make any promises about Mitchell though, that's guy's a bum and always will be.


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## martymar (Jan 5, 2006)

Benis007 said:


> I'd rather spend money on a servicable FA center.


are none existant


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

Team Mao.. your signature troubles me.

Mike James plays for the name on the BACK of his jersey? He plays for himself? Shouldn't he be playing for the name on the FRONT of his jersey?


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

vigilante said:


> Team Mao.. your signature troubles me.
> 
> Mike James plays for the name on the BACK of his jersey? He plays for himself? Shouldn't he be playing for the name on the FRONT of his jersey?


Supposedly something James said at the start of the year, according to Mao. I'd like to see it for myself before I believe it.


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

speedythief said:


> Supposedly something James said at the start of the year, according to Mao. I'd like to see it for myself before I believe it.


I've heard it as well, but I don't remember when. What I can remember is it somehow related to him talking about finding some stability somewhere.


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## Yao Mania (Aug 4, 2003)

Mike James says a lot of things. When he was still with Houston and was on a radio show, he was asked about his FA situation this coming year and his response was "I'm getting paid!"

But the guy plays with his heart, and you can see it on the court. How many players have you known that come to Toronto through a trade and start playing at the level MJ does right away? He's a champion, he wants to win, and if you're gonna hold a player against one or two things he's quoted for, then you should be hating over 1/2 the players in the NBA right now.

And if anything Mike James probably said that as a reference to Houston, because he thought he'd found a home their but was obviously devastated when traded.


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

Yao Mania said:


> Mike James says a lot of things. When he was still with Houston and was on a radio show, he was asked about his FA situation this coming year and his response was "I'm getting paid!"
> 
> But the guy plays with his heart, and you can see it on the court. How many players have you known that come to Toronto through a trade and start playing at the level MJ does right away? He's a champion, he wants to win, and if you're gonna hold a player against one or two things he's quoted for, then you should be hating over 1/2 the players in the NBA right now.


Don't get me wrong, I love Mike James and am hoping he does resign with us. Just stating that the quote wasn't made up and confirming it's legit.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

trick said:


> I've heard it as well, but I don't remember when. What I can remember is it somehow related to him talking about finding some stability somewhere.


I remember him saying he's trying to find a home. I remember something about him saying he'd go to the highest bidder in the offseason. I don't remember him saying he was playing for himself during his tenure in Toronto (from the trade until now).


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

speedythief said:


> I remember him saying he's trying to find a home. I remember something about him saying he'd go to the highest bidder in the offseason. I don't remember him saying he was playing for himself during his tenure in Toronto (from the trade until now).


Don't shoot the messenger... :angel:

I know it was a reply to a reporter's question and there's likely more substance to that quote than the way it just is.

Regardless, I'm a firm believer in that "actions speak louder" than words and he has been anything but a greedy player/teammate.


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

Ah, okay. I thought it was a typo or something.


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## martymar (Jan 5, 2006)

After reviewing the 2006 free agents list, I think raptors should try use there mid-level exception elsewhere rather than resign Mike James

http://probasketball.about.com/od/newsrumorsopinion/a/nbafreeagents06.htm


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## lakers9104 (Nov 11, 2005)

i dont really know prb thou


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## aizn (Jun 19, 2005)

martymar said:


> After reviewing the 2006 free agents list, I think raptors should try use there mid-level exception elsewhere rather than resign Mike James


who would u rather sign? cassell? posey? i dunno, mike james may not be worth a 4 year contact, but if babs can work out a 3 year deal for him, it would b better.


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## martymar (Jan 5, 2006)

aizn said:


> who would u rather sign? cassell? posey? i dunno, mike james may not be worth a 4 year contact, but if babs can work out a 3 year deal for him, it would b better.


I like cassell since he is a gamer but he is moody, posey is similar to mo-pete....


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## icehawk (May 30, 2003)

Re-signing Mike James shouldn't be a question unless Babs is thinking about picking up a blue-chip PG in the draft.

The question you guys should be asking is "is Mike James going to re-sign with us?"

Mike said he would love to play in New York in front of his friends and fam. LB has a got special place in his heart for MJ, too.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

can't wait till he locks up a deal and screams into the camera "I'm RIIIIIIIICH BIA***!!!"

(man i love Chappelle's show)


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