# 2010 draft athletic measurements



## rebelsun (Nov 25, 2003)

Numbers from ESPN Insider:

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft2010/insider/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=Draftchart-100526&action=upsell&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba%2fdraft2010%2finsider%2fcolumns%2fstory%3fcolumnist%3dford_chad%26page%3dDraftchart-100526

NBA DRAFT COMBINE MEASUREMENTS
Player - No step vert - Max vert - Bench press (185 lbs) - Lane agility - 3/4 court sprint
Solomon Alabi 22.5 26.0 10 13.2 3.68
Cole Aldrich 23.0 28.0 10 11.48 3.35
Aminu, Al-Farouq 27.0 33.5 13 11.29 3.3
James Anderson 30.0 35.5 14 11.86 3.19
Luke Babbitt 29.5 37.5 15 10.98 3.4
Eric Bledsoe -N-a -N-a 9 -N-a -N-a
Trevor Booker 31.0 36.0 22 11.15 3.1
Craig Brackins 26.0 35.0 6 11.65 3.39
Avery Bradley 31.5 37.5 2 11.47 3.14
Derrick Caracter 25.0 30.5 22 12.78 3.61
Sherron Collins 27.5 33.0 -N-a 12.31 3.24
DeMarcus Cousins 23.5 27.5 -N-a 11.4 3.55
Jordan Crawford 31.5 34.5 7 11.03 3.37
Ed Davis 31.0 36.0 -N-a 11.7 3.21
Devin Ebanks 23.5 32.0 6 11.69 3.44
Derrick Favors 31.5 35.5 14 11.74 3.25
Keith Gallon 23.5 28.5 14 13.44 3.7
Charles Garcia 24.5 30.5 2 11.65 3.23
Paul George -N-a -N-a 4 -N-a -N-a
Luke Harangody 24.0 28.5 23 11.83 3.41
Manny Harris -N-a -N-a 11 -N-a -N-a
Lazar Hayward 31.0 36.0 15 10.87 3.31
Gordon Hayward 30.5 34.5 10 11.73 3.22
Xavier Henry 28.5 36.5 8 11.1 3.18
Darington Hobson 29.0 34.0 -N-a 11.68 3.25
James, Damion 29.0 33.0 13 10.89 3.2
Armon Johnson 31.5 38.5 18 11.25 3.19
Wesley Johnson 32.0 37.0 16 11.43 3.14
Dominique Jones 26.0 32.5 19 10.88 3.31
Jerome Jordan -N-a -N-a -N-a -N-a -N-a
Sylven Landesberg 28.0 32.0 8 11.59 3.36
Gani Lawal 27.0 31.5 20 11.61 3.24
Greg Monroe 25.0 29.0 15 12.1 3.35
Daniel Orton 24.0 30.5 13 12.32 3.39
Artsiom Parakhouski 25.5 26.5 16 12.07 3.33
Patrick Patterson 28.5 33.5 17 11.14 3.25
Dexter Pittman -N-a -N-a -N-a -N-a -N-a
Andy Rautins 23.5 30.5 8 11.27 3.49
Ryan Richards 25.0 28.5 4 11.33 3.37
Stanley Robinson -N-a 37.5 6 11.65 3.23
Larry Sanders 25.5 28.0 7 12.49 3.27
Jon Scheyer -N-a -N-a -N-a -N-a -N-a
Lance Stephenson 27.0 33.0 10 11.39 3.38
Mikhail Torrance 23.0 32.0 8 11.43 3.17
Evan Turner 27.5 34.5 9 11.06 3.27
Ekpe Udoh 31.0 33.5 10 11.15 3.29
Jarvis Varnado 29.5 32.5 3 11.61 3.37
Greivis Vasquez -N-a -N-a -N-a -N-a -N-a
John Wall 30.0 39.0 -N-a 10.84 3.14
Willie Warren 23.0 31.5 10 11.21 3.5
Terrico White 31.0 40.0 10 11.38 3.15
Hassan Whiteside 27.0 31.5 12 11.83 3.54


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## SheriffKilla (Jan 1, 2004)

All around pretty disappointed with the verticals, Alabi only 26, Aldrich 28, Whiteside 31, Cousins 27.5, Turner 34.5(with a short wingspan), Ebanks 32, Larry Sanders 28.
Wesley Johnson and John Wall are pretty impressive.
Luke Babbitt tested out pretty good as well as Avery Bradley
James Anderson is solid as well as Favors, 35.5 max is good enough coupled with his length and height. Henry is solid.
Kind of disappointing that Paul George and Eric Bledsoe didnt participate in this.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

I had no idea that Solomon Alabi was _that big_ of a slug.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Udoh has some ups. 31 no-step vert. Please Utah draft this guy. Greg Monroe has 25 yuck. I know people wonder why it doesn't matter as much for guards, but typically guards don't need to use a no-step vert because they're usually dribbling or cutting without the ball while many bigs get drop off passes and need to power to the goal.

Cole Adrich's upside is strictly that of Pryzbilla or a Collins twin IMO.


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## rebelsun (Nov 25, 2003)

Thoughts:

- Alabi was horrendous; decision to declare looks worse and worse
- Aldrich vertical unspectacular, decent speed though; he's not blowing anyone away with his combine showing
- Anderson with solid numbers; surprisingly almost doubled Henry's reps; both very fast, but Xavier's agility time much better; overall probably a push here, but given his superior frame, Henry probably still is the more attractive of the pair
- Babbitt can get up and his agility time was excellent for his size; his sprint time was poor though, but it's obvious he's a half-court guy anyway
- Booker is short, with short arms, but he's an excellent athlete at his size; I'm still very skeptical about his ability to stick in the league, though
- Bradley can run and jump with the best; he's just a shade behind Wall
- Davis with a 36" vert and 3.21 speed - looking more and more like Biedrins
- Ebanks very underwhelming; he didn't measure off the charts physically either; Paul George, despite his lack of participation here, seems to have surpassed him for good
- Favors continues his very strong pre-draft showing with 35", 14 reps, and 3.25 speed; very, very solid and absolute lock for the top 3; he's probably getting serious consideration at #2 as well
- Lazar Haywood with excellent overall numbers; helps his case in the 2nd round
- Armon Johnson is an athlete - 38" vert, 18 reps, and 3.19 speed; like Bradley and Wall, outstanding size, length, and athleticism at the point; lot less polished than those two, though; should be an interesting playmaker off the bench; Dooling?
- Wes Johnson with excellent overall numbers save for a poor agility score; solidifies himself in the top 6, and probably 5
- Lawal surprising with 20 reps to go with 3.24 speed; this guarantees him guaranteed money
- Monroe underwhelming across the board; looking more and more like Jason Thompson
- Orton with surprising 3.39 speed at a less-than-svelte 270; this definitely helps his late lotto consideration
- Patterson with very solid numbers across the board; he continues to display a distinct lack of significant weakness; I would be very comfortable taking him before Monroe
- Sanders failed to crack a with-step 30" vert; for all of his crazy length, he wasn't a game-changing defender in college, so there's no reason to think he would be in the league; I've thought he's been overrated for a while, and this doesn't help much
- Turner measured very good, but not outstanding; like his modest length, his insane production level more-than-negates any less-than-perfect results in this measurement process
- Udoh very bouncy, matching Davis with 31" no-step vert and very good numbers across the board
- Varnado only recording 3 reps doesn't help offset the fact he only weighs 167lbs; I'm not sure he's interesting in the top 45-50 picks
- Wall outstanding across the board to match equally outstanding size and length; absolute, no question #1 overall pick 
- Whiteside didn't fare very well, but not as bad as Alabi; his 31.5" with-step vert puts his max vert reach at 12'0.5", given the pre-draft numbers


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Kind of interesting how Brackins can get up when moving, but flat footed he doesn't have much. He gained almost 10 inches moving on his vertical. The thing about him is he looks exactly like Brian Cook on the next level and seems to have zero interest putting the ball on the floor and going to the rim where he might be even more effective.

Oh well.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

The guy Utah should draft and will most likely draft is Patrick Patterson...it makes too much sense provided he is on the board. He's a Sloan guy through and through.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Udoh is better than Patterson. Patterson is said to have zero weaknesses, but he doesn't have strengths either. He's Shelden Williams basically.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Udoh is an athlete, Patterson is a basketball player. Maybe if Shelden had Patterson's IQ I could see the comparison but even with that said, thats a terrible comparison. Patterson does a lot of things nicely, he's got an all round game dude's not just a shot blocking college specialist, funny enough isnt that what Udoh is? He's got more in common with Shelden than PP does.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Udoh is a better athlete, finisher, rebounder, defender and he can shoot with range and put the ball on the floor. Seriously, I know you went to college in Kentucky and have been talking about Patterson for a while, but he does not do one thing at an elite NBA level. Not one thing.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Pretty good shooter, you dont seriously think Udoh is a better shooter right?

57.5FG% 62.6%2pt 34.8%3pt 

But Udoh'ss 49FG% 50.5%2pt and 26.9%3pt's supposed to be better? The numbers dont agree.

Come on man! There are few big men in the league right now that are better at hitting the mid range shot. Thats elite NBA skill man.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Patterson played with better players though. Udoh was the main big every night. It's a big difference. Patterson was the 4th option on offense. Udoh the second option. I mean this is where numbers lie. 

Not to mention Patterson sure wasn't hitting that mid-range shot against West Virginia. Meanwhile, Udoh was dominating Duke.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

HKF said:


> Udoh is better than Patterson. Patterson is said to have zero weaknesses, but he doesn't have strengths either. He's Shelden Williams basically.


Let's be fair here, Patterson isn't a dunderhead. He's also more athletic than Shellhead. You're right about Udoh, though. Patterson's a roleplayer (and potentially a good one, I think). Udoh should be much better than that.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

HKF said:


> Patterson played with better players though. Udoh was the main big every night. It's a big difference. Patterson was the 4th option on offense. Udoh the second option. I mean this is where numbers lie.
> 
> Not to mention Patterson sure wasn't hitting that mid-range shot against West Virginia. Meanwhile, Udoh was dominating Duke.


If he goes to Utah, he's not the man. He can blend in nicely with that group and try to replicate some of what they'll lose with Boozer. Guy has range to the 3pt line, better teammates isn't solely responsible for that. He was hitting the midrange shot quite nicely in his sophomore year WITHOUT Wall, Bledsoe and Cousins.

Now correct me if I am wrong, but Udoh's team didn't win the national championship right? Where was Udoh?


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Udoh played great in their loss to Duke. Not sure what game you were watching. Udoh brings athleticism and defense to Utah. Patterson will not be Boozer whatsoever. There was no game this year that Patterson dominated and you said, wow this guy is a future NBA starter.

Udoh has had some explosive games where he has dominated (especially on the defensive end). You keep talking about his range, but that's not what the Jazz need. They don't need Patterson. This dude is not going to do anything on the pro level. He's a lunchpail player and they already have that in Millsap.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

E.H. Munro said:


> Let's be fair here, Patterson isn't a dunderhead. He's also more athletic than Shellhead. You're right about Udoh, though. Patterson's a roleplayer (and potentially a good one, I think). Udoh should be much better than that.


Munro, I have a hard time liking a prospect who never had one signature game where he just stood out and dominated (this is why it's hard to like Paul George, dude never dominated anyone). 

However, this is why I like Jordan Crawford. Dude's an elite scorer. That has value.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

HKF said:


> Munro, I have a hard time liking a prospect who never had one signature game where he just stood out and dominated (this is why it's hard to like Paul George, dude never dominated anyone).
> 
> However, this is why I like Jordan Crawford. Dude's an elite scorer. That has value.


Yeah, I'm not going to argue any of this. If I were picking 25th-35th, I'd love Patterson because I know that he can do what Glen Davis does, bring energy off the bench. But if I'm drafting him tenth I'd be pretty depressed that all I got for my lottery pick was energy off the bench. Utah definitely doesn't need some guy whose upside is Paul Milsap, as they already have Milsap.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

HKF said:


> Udoh played great in their loss to Duke. Not sure what game you were watching. Udoh brings athleticism and defense to Utah. Patterson will not be Boozer whatsoever. There was no game this year that Patterson dominated and you said, wow this guy is a future NBA starter.
> 
> Udoh has had some explosive games where he has dominated (especially on the defensive end). You keep talking about his range, but that's not what the Jazz need. They don't need Patterson. This dude is not going to do anything on the pro level. He's a lunchpail player and they already have that in Millsap.


You better be right because I can see Patterson being a very serviceable player...not an all star but a long career


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## jmk (Jun 30, 2002)

HB, why are you acting like Udoh didn't show up against Duke? The guy put up 18, 10, 6, and 5.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

I wasnt the one that brought up the whole player disappeared against so and so or talked about superior teammates...Udoh was also on a talented squad and I dont see how that counts against him. 

When PP came into college all he had was a hook shot, in 3 years, he improved his range to the 3pt line, and somehow he doesn't do 'anything' on the NBA level well. Come on now! The guy he's being compared to doesnt have better shooting numbers, and he's also on a talented squad.

As for Munro, not sure how PP's a 'energy' guy. His weakness is that he is passive, blends in too much and defers too much to his teammates. He's no energy player...guy's mostly finesse.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

HB said:


> As for Munro, not sure how PP's a 'energy' guy. His weakness is that he is passive, blends in too much and defers too much to his teammates. He's no energy player...guy's mostly finesse.


OK, let's put it this way, if he doesn't relearn his game the way that Glen Davis did, and learn to be an energy guy off the bench, his NBA career won't outlive his rookie deal.


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## jmk (Jun 30, 2002)

Udoh has All-Star potential. Patterson has Rookie-Sophomore Game potential.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Yeah but didn't I mention PP isnt going to be an all star? And just because I think PP is a better shooter than Udoh doesnt mean Udoh's a bum


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## Rather Unique (Aug 26, 2005)

HB said:


> Yeah but didn't I mention PP isnt going to be an all star? And just because I think PP is a better shooter than Udoh doesnt mean Udoh's a bum


that's the point though HB, when you're picking in the lotto, you want somebody who already has skills, but also potential to become even better. I like PP, but Udoh has developed some real nice skills to go along with his length and defense, and has a real shot to be an all-star. PP, as you seem to think yourself, will be a role player albeit possibly a real good one, but you'd much rather take a chance on the guy who has upside, who's floor is a role player, specially picking in the lotto. 

Like Munro said, PP is nice at 25 but in the lotto you can't pass up someone like Udoh for him. 

And for the record, i think PP is a better shooter than Udoh, although not by THAT much.


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## jmk (Jun 30, 2002)

But you're saying PP to Utah is what should and will happen. And neither of those things is even remotely true. You don't draft an undersized 7th or 8th or 9th man in the Top 10 when there is a plethora of All-Star potential big men available, which just so happens to be your position of need.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Plethora of all star big men? Who are they? 

PP 'fits' a Sloan type of player. He's not flashy, he's not dunking over anyone, or going for ridiculous blocks...but he understands the game and plays it the right way. To me he is Al Horford like.


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## jmk (Jun 30, 2002)

HB said:


> Plethora of all star big men? Who are they?


Monroe, Udoh, and Aldrich, and even Whiteside, Davis, and Orton have more All-Star potential than Patterson.

That's not even the point, though. The point is that taking Patterson over Udoh would be plain silly, and certainly not something that is "most likely" to happen.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Monroe? Davis? Aldrich? Whiteside? Orton? WTH!!!!!!! 

As of now Udoh's going higher than Patterson, probably before Utah picks so this is a moot point. But those other guys you mentioned are NOT better than Patterson. Monroe is an enigma...Aldrich is looking like a backup center...Orton's not better than PP, Davis has the talent but not the offense and Whiteside well no comment.


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## jmk (Jun 30, 2002)

All of those guys have a higher ceiling than Patterson, even Aldrich because of his size. Patterson's ceiling is a good role/bench player.


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## cpawfan (Jun 20, 2004)

I'd be thrilled if the Jazz selected PP with a lottery pick. Of course I happen to loathe the Jazz. I also don't want to see Udoh in Utah.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

Whiteside and Orton are both defensive specialists, who will play center... Cant really compare them to Patterson is a face-up PF. Aldrich pretty much what you see is what you get. Serviceable player, but I dont see much upside. Davis, Munroe, Patterson, any of those guys can be boom or bust.

EDIT: btw, im suprised nobody is talking about the guy with the best vert in the combine. Terrico White.


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## rebelsun (Nov 25, 2003)

Blue Magic said:


> EDIT: btw, im suprised nobody is talking about the guy with the best vert in the combine. Terrico White.


White has a great frame and matching athleticism, but the guy failed to shoot better than 43% from the field in any college season and had less than 4 FTA/gm. His defensive turnover numbers show a continued lack of capitalization on those tools as he only recorded 0.9spg and 0.2bpg. With said tools and skills, dude should be shooting a much higher percentage overall, getting to line a hell of a lot more, and creating a little more havoc on defense. Definitely has some talent, but I'm not sure he's more interesting than an Elliot Williams, Jordan Crawford, or Dominique Jones.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

Yeah, I like Elliot Williams alot... Williams, Crawford, and White are at the top of my board for Orlando, and White's combine # were impressive to say the least. With those #'s I cannot see him falling, as he measures out just as good as Wall, who everyone is drooling over. Kid is def not falling to the 2nd round. 

Also, Willie Warren's combine #'s were an extreme disappointment. I dont know if he is still injured, but I dont see how he could fall off so hard after his freshman season. I had him on my board for Orlando, but i'm 2nd guessing if he has other issues right now... I'd def take Williams, Crawford, and White over him. Not too sold on Dominique Jones, though.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

I'd been meaning to mention that about Warren. His combine numbers were underwhelming. I've been consoling myself with the thought that Monta Ellis' numbers were similarly underwhelming.


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## rebelsun (Nov 25, 2003)

I'm not sure Patterson to Shelden is a great comparison. Williams was a plodding, undersized C, defensive specialist who had little upside as an NBA PF. Pat has enough length, athleticism, and skill to play there full-time. 

I think both PP and Udoh have solid potential to be career starters, but neither will likely ever sniff an A/S team. I'm intrigued by Udoh as much as anyone, but I think his offensive upside is pretty questionable in the league. He has excellent length and mobility and should be fine on boards and on defense, but I'm not sure he's ever a 15ppg guy. Pat won't be the defensive presence that Ekpe will be, but I think he's the more likely to get to 15ppg. I think he might have some sneaky 18/8 David West potential in him; worst case scenario as JJ Hickson with mid-range and 3pt shots. 

As far as the FG% discrepancy between Udoh and Patterson being ascribed to surrounding talent, I would say that this year's Baylor roster was at least as talented as the previous year's Kentucky roster. Pat shot 60% from the field as the only post presence on the team and having essentially only Jodie Meeks around him. Udoh converted only 49% of his FGs this year, at greater size no less, with a roughly equal supporting cast. Pat has shown to be a more effective scorer both inside and outside. 

I don't think either is gonna set the world on fire though, and it would probably come down to offense vs. defense need for me. As far as Utah, they need post defense in the worst way; they have enough overachieving, stubby PFs. I think Monroe is kind of a mediocre combination of the two and probably wouldn't take him before this pair regardless.


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## SheriffKilla (Jan 1, 2004)

Udoh isnt just a defensive specialist though, he can handle and pass the ball. Patterson is a more high percentage shooter because he doesnt take many tough shots. That could be good or bad.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Where's HKF and Munro to refute everything Rebelsun posted?

Excellent piece by the way.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Rebel Sun pretty much nailed both players, except I disagree with him regarding Udoh's upside. Also, he clearly agreed that the Jazz have zero need for a guy like Patterson when they have Millsap. I personally do not believe Patterson is better than Udoh, but if you do, that's fine. We disagree.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

HB said:


> Where's HKF and Munro to refute everything Rebelsun posted?


I'm not quite certain why I'd have a huge disagreement with Rebelsun since I also hated the Shelden Williams comparison. I don't think that Patterson would be much of a starter at the 4, just as I don't think David West or Jeff Green are particularly effective starting 4s. I do like Udoh's offensive game more than he does, on that score I disagree.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Yeah prtty sure both of you 'claimed' Udoh was an allstar type talent, not sure there are many 15ppg all star power forward/centers out there


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

I didn't definitively say that Udoh would be an all-star. I do feel he can put together some all-star caliber seasons. He strikes me as the kind of guy who will get better in the pros. The thing is, Patterson like I said earlier, does not have one elite NBA skill. David West is an elite mid-range shooter (yup, he sure is).


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

HB said:


> Yeah prtty sure both of you 'claimed' Udoh was an allstar type talent, not sure there are many 15ppg all star power forward/centers out there


Could you point out where I actually said that? I think that I've said that I love Udoh's upside, because I do, and that he's better than Patterson, because he is. But I haven't actually said that he's an all star. I'm not sure that he is. I suppose if he keeps developing he could earn himself a few trips to the all star game (I mean, Antoine Walker made it three times, so it's not inconceivable that Udoh makes one or two). I see him as a kind of guy that will excel defensively while being an offensive asset.


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## Rather Unique (Aug 26, 2005)

thought about something and have a question for HKF and Munro, if the Jazz are on the clock and Udoh has been taken by say...i don't know the Warriors or somebody, would you draft PP over Monroe? (aimed more at HKF, cause he hates Monroe :laugh

Reason being, theoretically, PP can slide in Milsapp's role should Boozer leave. He has the all-around play that can be very beneficial coming of the bench at the 4 spot.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

I would take Monroe and hope he could get over his softness like Gasol.


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## Rather Unique (Aug 26, 2005)

HKF said:


> I would take Monroe and hope he could get over his softness like Gasol.


:laugh: glad to see you don't hate him THAT much, i'd do the same. Although i could somewhat understand taking PP if that was the case, just seems too early..


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## jmk (Jun 30, 2002)

Whether you like Monroe or not, the fact is that he has some particularly fantastic skills for a C. If he can get someone to toughen him up physically and mentally, there's no reason he shouldn't be a good NBA player for a long time. Of course, big if.


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## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

Monroe over Patterson is a no brainer to me. Patterson's ceiling is a role player. Monroe has the ability to become an all-star type player. He may not be a franchise big man, but his ceiling is a lot higher than Patterson's.


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## SheriffKilla (Jan 1, 2004)

Ya who cares if Monroe didnt test out all that great, the guy can flat out play.


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## GrandKenyon6 (Jul 19, 2005)

So is it true that Cousins refused to bench 185 because "he doesn't lift"?

I guess he doesn't plan on establishing position or pushing guys out of the paint either then, does he?


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

GrandKenyon6 said:


> So is it true that Cousins refused to bench 185 because "he doesn't lift"?
> 
> I guess he doesn't plan on establishing position or pushing guys out of the paint either then, does he?


A players bench press has almost no impact on "establishing position or pushing guys out of the paint". Unless you are talking about physically shoving a player with your arms, in which case there would be a decent connection to bench press. but of course that is a foul...


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

bball2223 said:


> Monroe over Patterson is a no brainer to me. Patterson's ceiling is a role player. Monroe has the ability to become an all-star type player. He may not be a franchise big man, but his ceiling is a lot higher than Patterson's.


Monroe just seems so slow footed and unathletic to me. Don't see him as a PF at all.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

Rather Unique said:


> thought about something and have a question for HKF and Munro, if the Jazz are on the clock and Udoh has been taken by say...i don't know the Warriors or somebody, would you draft PP over Monroe? (aimed more at HKF, cause he hates Monroe :laugh
> 
> Reason being, theoretically, PP can slide in Milsapp's role should Boozer leave. He has the all-around play that can be very beneficial coming of the bench at the 4 spot.





HKF said:


> I would take Monroe and hope he could get over his softness like Gasol.





Rather Unique said:


> :laugh: glad to see you don't hate him THAT much, i'd do the same. Although i could somewhat understand taking PP if that was the case, just seems too early..


I'm going to have to agree with HKF here. I like Patterson and all, but Utah already has a better version of him. They need height/length.


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## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

MemphisX said:


> Monroe just seems so slow footed and unathletic to me. Don't see him as a PF at all.


I disagree. He's not Udoh or Favors in terms of athletic ability, but he has enough to get by in the NBA especially with the set of skills he possesses.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Monroe looks like a PF to me


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## rebelsun (Nov 25, 2003)

If Cousins didn't perform the bench out of his management's counsel, and not injury or something else, it would make sense. At 292lbs, if the dude got less than like 25 reps he would appear weak. Not a big deal, though; I'm not sure anyone doubts his potential to establish all the position he wants in the NBA post.

Monroe is big and strong enough to play some C; I just wouldn't want him as my full-time NBA C. The guy is not a force down low; he's more interested in trimming his pencil-thin beard and playing point-center at the top of the key. Like Jason Thompson, he's effective enough to play some C, but he obviously functions best as a finesse 4. He does have interesting tools at that size, though, but I also said the same things about Josh McRoberts. He looks sexy on paper - 6'11, 245, solid athleticism, great overall numbers, etc - but I'm just not sure there's a near-A/S player in there. I'm not sure he wants to be great; I think he wants more to just be 'balanced.' And no, balanced alone does not equal great.

The reason I like Patterson is that his game is more size-appropriate; his priorities are in order. The guy first figured out how to be effective down low, shooting 60% from the field, *then* he ventured out to the 3pt line, without losing his post effectiveness. Monroe shot an excellent 57% his frosh year, but then it tumbled 5% and his PPS dropped as well as he drifted out of the paint. Greg does have more upside, but I'm not sure his ultimately passive nature will change. It's a lot more fun playing on the perimeter than doing the dirty work under the hoop, but I think it certainly helps win games when your 6'11 guys are the ones to do it. I think there are exceptions for guys like Dirk/Bargnani/etc, who are actually lethal from outside, but not for guys like Monroe/Thompson/etc who are stuck in between.


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## GrandKenyon6 (Jul 19, 2005)

caseyrh said:


> A players bench press has almost no impact on "establishing position or pushing guys out of the paint". Unless you are talking about physically shoving a player with your arms, in which case there would be a decent connection to bench press. but of course that is a foul...


The bench press is a measure of upper body strength and you can bet that resistance trained players are quite a bit stronger than those that aren't. Strength has everything to do with it.


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

GrandKenyon6 said:


> The bench press is a measure of upper body strength and you can bet that resistance trained players are quite a bit stronger than those that aren't. Strength has everything to do with it.


This would be the proper way to make your statement:

If a person lifts weights than that person will be stronger than if he did not lift weights.

Not:
"you can bet that resistance trained players are quite a bit stronger than those that aren't"
Because that isn't true at all.

Most of someones ability to "establish post position" comes down to: weight, balance, skill, lower body strength, footwork, coordination, etc... Almost none of it has to do with how much you bench press.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

It's actually the lower body that matters more for post position. It's why Zach Randolph does so well, because he can put his butt into you and you can't move him.


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## jmk (Jun 30, 2002)

I think it's more about Randolph saying "I don't lift" that is pretty troubling. That is one of the red flags that people keep talking about; his unwillingness to get into good shape.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

The next Eddy Curry? lol, I hope not...


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## Tom (Jul 15, 2002)

Lance Stephenson = bust


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

Tom said:


> Lance Stephenson = bust


Doubtful. He's going to get drafted in the 20-40 range. Unless you have expectations that guys that were second round picks twenty years ago should become stars then it's hard to justify the position that a roleplayer drafted in that range is a bust.


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## Tom (Jul 15, 2002)

If a guy comes out after a frosh season...he can be consdered in the bust column.


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## jmk (Jun 30, 2002)

Yeah, I don't think that's right. When you're talking bust in relation to the Draft, it's about where they were drafted vs. their eventual production, not what year they were in when they declared.


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## Tom (Jul 15, 2002)

What stands out as being more important thru past drafts...standing vert or general. I would guess for a big man it would be standing...but are there any stats to back it up.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

Tom said:


> If a guy comes out after a frosh season...he can be consdered in the bust column.


No he can't. If you draft a guy at 35, and he ends up being a roleplayer there's simply no rational way to call him a bust. There's no way you can expect stardom from a guy that would have been a mid second round pick in the 1980s. If you draft him in the top 10 and end up with an NBA 6th-9th man for your money, you have a bust. In the 20-40 range? You have par for the course.


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## Tom (Jul 15, 2002)

Ok...Al Grean rules.


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## Tom (Jul 15, 2002)

I've always liked Lazar Hayward...I was surprised by his numbers. I think he is a bit of old school. I think he will do well. I think he is a guy that will stick around for a while.


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## mercy2010 (Sep 2, 2010)

During the combine, anthropometric measurements are taken of players to give their exact height with and without shoes, their weight, wingspan, standing reach, body fat, hand length and hand width. Some of the numbers were staggering.

John Wall, although being three inches shorter than Evan Turner, has a wingspan more than an inch longer than Turner’s. Turner’s wingspan measured out at 6 feet, 8 inches, while Wall’s wingspan measured and impressive, 6 feet, 9 and-one-quarter inches. Hassan Whiteside from Marshall had the longest wingspan of anyone at the combine at 7 feet, 7 inches. The longest standing reach measurements belonged to three players, all big men. Whiteside, 7-1 Jerome Jordan from Tulsa, and 7-1 Solomon Alabi from Florida State all measured out at 9 feet, 5 inches. The biggest hands of the combine belonged to Craig Brackins from Iowa State whose hand width measure out at 11.3 inches.

Dexter Pittman, whose 16-year-old brother was tragically shot and killed during Day 1 of the combine forcing him to return to his family’s home in Houston, looked to be in much better shape compared to his days at the University of Texas. He came in looking much slimmer physically and looked a lot more nimble on his feet. However he had the highest body-fat percentage of any of the combine’s participants at 20.8 percent, but an impressive wingspan for a 6-11 player that measured out at 7 feet, 6 inches. The player with the lowest body fat percentage was Ole Miss Guard Terrico White at 3.7 percent. A close second was Manny Harris from Michigan at 3.8 percent


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## SheriffKilla (Jan 1, 2004)

Dude, this information has been available for almost 3 months now...


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