# A Lampe sighting.



## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

It's been so freaking dead around here I thought I'd post *something*. Stole this from another board:

I came to see France vs Poland last night in Paris, Lampe and Trybanski were playing for the Polish team, I was kinda surprised as I didn't expect them to be there. 

Both guys looked lost on defense, and I mean lost. 
they were dominated in the paint by french centers and PF, despite their lack of size. Florent Pietrus's athleticism was very useful to guard Lampe. Lampe finished with 7 pts (3/7, 1/2 from the line) 6 boards 3 fouls in 23 minutes, that's a shame for a guy like him, who should be efficient under FIBA rules thanks to closer 3 pt line and his shooting skills. Lampe didn't even start for Poland. 
Trybanski had 4 pts 2 boards 3 fouls in 15 minutes and had no impact. 
Atlanta Hawk Boris Diaw had 16 pts (6/9) 7 reb 4 *** 

Since the beginning of the competition, Lampe is averaging 4.7 ppg (4/15 shooting) 3.3 rpg in 15.7 mpg. (3 games played). Trybanski is averaging 3.7 ppg 2 rpg in 10 mpg, he's a complete bust, he's worse than Fred Weis. Poland is 0-3 in the competition, France is 2-1, a game behind Slovenia. 

Also, I found interesting to notice that Lampe is listed at 6'9 1/2 on the Poland roster. Finally I got my proof !!! I never thought the guy could 6'11 like nba.com is saying....


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## jellywuoo (Aug 8, 2004)

You have probably meant that some international players are overvalued in NBA,right?


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## The True Essence (May 26, 2003)

hes still 19


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

Isn't the strength of international ball supposed to be "teamwork" and "chemistry"? The poster himself said he was surprised to see both there.

And surprised that he's not starting? What player under 22 does start in international ball? It's a veteran oriented game. Lampe, Darko, and many other players were drafted despite never starting. Darko only played around 10 mpg the season before he was drafted. 

Since the NBA is more physical, I wouldn't worry about Lampe's "3 fouls in 23 minutes" because there are more fouls in the NBA, and more contact is allowed. Ask Tim Duncan, who is viewed as a finesse big man yet was riddled with foul trouble.

And as it regards to his height listing, that could be with shoes on or off, not that it matters to begin with. Player height's are seldom accurate in the NBA to begin with. Charles Barkley was 6'4 and Larry Johnson was 6'5, but each was listed 2 inches taller than they really were. I'm pretty sure Ewing started his career at 7'1 but eventually "shrunk" down to 7 even. It doesn't matter whether Lampe is 6'9 or 6'11, because either way he'd be a soft center on the defensive end, better off at PF (or SF if he gets more quickness) and he'd still be the same player on the offensive end.

As for Trybanski, I don't think anybody doubted that he is worse than Weis, there's a reason he has played only 101 minutes in 2 seasons.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

Lampe is no Sweetney..period....

Rashidi,you actually hit the nail on the head..Is he a power foward or small foward????

Hes the only 6'11 tweener I know of

Either he finds some quickness,or he finds a post game......

Which is why Sweets is way more effective right now


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## alphadog (Jan 2, 2004)

*SF?*

You guys must be kidding me, right? Just because yoou have some of the skills doesn't make you suitable for the position. An NBA sf is in all likely hood the best athlete in the world. Do any of you see Lampe as athletic? Please..the guy is nailed to the floor. He is a little slow to play anything but center. Can he get quicker? Sure....but not a huge amount. He is a low post body with a perimter guy's skill set.


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## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

FWIW, here was frenchknicksfan's follow up post:

What surprises me is that Lampe did not show any sign of improvement since his 1st Summer League with NY. I mean the guy practiced with the Knicks and Suns all season, I expected him to improve his bball IQ as well as his defensive intensity, but nada. 

he has tried to attack the basket on occasion, scored some easy layups and got some rebounds cause he was the tallest player on the floor, but overall that was a very poor performance from him. He couldn't hit a J consistently in practice, and couldnt hit one during the game. Everytime the french made him play on D, either we scored, either we went to the line. 

The Marbury deal is getting pinker and pinker for the Knicks. If the Suns hope Lampe to be their startign center, they're in trouble. Lampe is a forward, period. Trybanski is not even a basket-ball player to me. How could Jerry West bring that guy ??[/quote]

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This is me, Son of Oakley speaking now. My own feelings on the matter are still ambivalent. Maybe he'll be good, maybe not. I mean, okay the guy is only 19, but he hasn't shown much, yet he's a Dirk in the making? Well Ariza is 19 too and seemingly produces at every opportunity, so is it fair to say he's Pippen in the making? Face it, the Lampe supporters would bust my azz off the bone if I said he were, but Lampe IS Dirk? Only time will tell...


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## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Rashidi</b>!
> Isn't the strength of international ball supposed to be "teamwork" and "chemistry"? The poster himself said he was surprised to see both there.


What? So playing poor D and looking lost is an example of good teamwork and chemistry? If that's the case we should be thrilled, that means the Knicks have a good shot at awesome chemistry this year.


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## charlz (Jun 9, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>PennyHardaway</b>!
> hes still 19


plus he is a big man


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## alphadog (Jan 2, 2004)

*I never thought he'd be Dirk...*

I DID think that he might fill out to be a high post/pick and roll guy(center) on offense with some low post offense as well. He is not as big or nearly as athletic as Dirk. I thought if he dedicated himself to the blocks down low he could give us something like 12/ 9-10, with a threat to move outside once in a while to open up the lane. Not much of a shot blocker but would have at least become a good back-up at the 4-5. If he could defend the rim at all, I would take him as a starter. I know he is not these things now, but I thoought (and still do) that he could get there in 3-4 years.


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## ballstorm (Nov 30, 2003)

One more thing to take into account is that the french backcourt made a great job guarding the polish's one . Joseph Gomis , the french PG , for instance , is very impressive from the begining of the qualification round. He is not well known , playing in a little spanish team , but his defense is devastating. So if the polish's Big Men did not play well , it is also because their guards were unable to give them the ball correctly . For sure , Flo Pietrus is the heck of a defender and made a good job defending Lampe or Trybanski , but the problem can be taken in different ways. What looks important to me is also that Lampe lacks seasoning. He hardly played last year. I think that potentially , he can turn into a good rotation , as a backup center may be.


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## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

Okay, so is it fair to say in Lampe we're looking at a Danny Ferry type player? Is that what all the hype is about?


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## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

Wow, I remember Ferry's game fairly well, he was a big dude with a good shot and pretty sound footwork. But I just looked up his stats. People complain about TT being 6'10 and only pulling 4-5 boards per game. This dude was 6'10 and averaged 2.8 for his career. He peaked at 4.1, but in 6 of his seasons he was at 2.0 or below!


He always seemed to rise to the occasion against us though.
:nonono:


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## alphadog (Jan 2, 2004)

*Typical Duke dude*

Hyped to the hilt by Dookie V..and a huge disappointment in the NBA. Grant Hill would have been a great one, though. Ferry was too soft...creme filled, Baby!!


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

> My own feelings on the matter are still ambivalent. Maybe he'll be good, maybe not. I mean, okay the guy is only 19, but he hasn't shown much, yet he's a Dirk in the making?


Big men don't develop the same way swingmen do though. No big man has ever come into the league at 18 and played well. Amare and Kemp were 20 when they came into the league, and were incredible physical specimens that got by on athleticism and size, and THEN their talent. Garnett is the MVP, and just look how he did in his rookie year. Respectable, but he's clearly come a long way. In comparison, how far has Marbury gone since his rookie year? Not nearly as far. It seems that the journey for bigmen is longer and harder. Even Shaq today is considerably different than when he came into the league.

Guys like Ewing and Olajuwon didn't play basketball for a long time, they started in their mid-teens, and went on to become 1st picks and franchise players. 




> Well Ariza is 19 too and seemingly produces at every opportunity, so is it fair to say he's Pippen in the making?


What opportunities has he had to produce in? He wasn't great on his college team, and he was the 3rd best player on the summer league team. Ariza so far has shown he'd be a productive player in the NBDL, thats all. He has no jumper, and he doesn't have size at SF. I've tended to compare him to Darius Miles, but I'm rescinding that a bit. Miles is bigger and more explosive. Ariza's size makes him a bit like Stacey Augmon... offensively inept, just not nearly as good/strong a defender.



> Face it, the Lampe supporters would bust my azz off the bone if I said he were, but Lampe IS Dirk? Only time will tell...


Most people viewed him as Dirk-lite. Dirk also only scored 8.2 ppg and 3.4 rpg in his rookie year at age 20 (Ferry-esque). Lampe won't be 20 until next season. 

Lampe last year had 4.6 ppg and 2.1 rpg (10.7 mpg) at age 18 (so I could really care less what he does off the bench for Poland). Clearly he does have some promise, those are pretty good numbers for a 12th man. DerMarr Johnson on the other hand scored 5.4 ppg last year (at age 23) and people were clamoring about how good he will be in a few years.

Lampe showed more than Darko did last season. Lampe had a .489 fg% while Darko was .262. Lampe was also .769 from the line, while Darko was .583. Considering those 2 were the youngest players in the league, just looking at stats, I'm willing to bet that Lampe will be ready to contribute before Darko. His jumper is a useful offensive weapon, the only thing keeping him off the court right now seems to be his defense.



> Rashidi,you actually hit the nail on the head..Is he a power foward or small foward????
> Hes the only 6'11 tweener I know of


I was going to bring up Tim Thomas, but I forgot that he is "only" 6'10.



> What? So playing poor D and looking lost is an example of good teamwork and chemistry?


No, I'm speculating that since he was surprised to see both players there, that they probably weren't with the team for very long. Which obviously impacts teamwork and chemistry.



> Wow, I remember Ferry's game fairly well, he was a big dude with a good shot and pretty sound footwork. But I just looked up his stats. People complain about TT being 6'10 and only pulling 4-5 boards per game. This dude was 6'10 and averaged 2.8 for his career. He peaked at 4.1, but in 6 of his seasons he was at 2.0 or below!


Danny Ferry was the worst rebounder in NBA history. Although I will say he was "slightly" underrated by the numbers, because his best two years came in the Slo-time Fratello era, where they'd hold the ball for 23 seconds and then shoot a 3. Lampe averaged 2.1 rpg in 10.7 mpg last year, so I think he will average a bit more than the 2.8 rpg in 19.7 mpg Ferry averaged for his career.

When the Knicks swept Cleveland in 95-96, Ferry averaged 9.7 ppg, 5.0 rpg, and 3.0 apg. However he was 14-41 from the field, 1-16 on 3's, and didn't attempt a FT the entire series.

I think the Lampe comparison to Ferry is somewhat interesting. Ferry is closer to KVH's size and makeup than Lampe's. I think Lampe as a PF is a bit closer to another Dukie, Christian Laettner, and if built as a C, would be a little similar to Brad Miller. Nobody expects Lampe to be a 21+ ppg scorer like Dirk, but I think a 16+ ppg scorer like Laettner would be a good expectation.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

> I was going to bring up Tim Thomas, but I forgot that he is "only" 6'10.


Timmys no tweener...He has a small foward game 100%,and put up small foward numbers..It just so happens he is 6'10"...


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

Lampe is not a SF and doesn't want to play SF. He is a PF and eventually going to play more Center once he gets stronger.

Lampe is 19 and won't turn 20 until mid next season. Florent Pietrus was playing for the Suns last summer also and is a veteran player with years of international experience over there in europe.
What do you expect?

I think this is the first time Lampe even plays for the senior team of poland.

Last offseason he was still playing for an U19 team or something and won tournament MVP in a youth competition featuring serbia-montenegro (Perovic etc), russia.....).


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## The True Essence (May 26, 2003)

and lampe did great in the denver summerleague last season. the kid is good.

dirk at 20 was NOT as good as lampe is at 19,i think Don Nelson said this. remeber dirk was on a division TWO team in germany. this kid could very well be a great player, but i doubt he'll ever be as good as dirk


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

> this kid could very well be a great player, but i doubt he'll ever be as good as dirk


i think what was questioned was lampes commitment to training..The guy has skills..the question is how good does he want to be


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## ChrisCrossover (Sep 27, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>son of oakley</b>!okay the guy is only 19, but he hasn't shown much, yet he's a Dirk in the making? [...] Face it, the Lampe supporters would bust my azz off the bone if I said he were, but Lampe IS Dirk? Only time will tell...


Lampe isn't Dirk # 2 nor will he ever be. He is far too slow footed and unathletic, and he lacks the level of quality Nowitzki has had to his game at a comparable age. In fact, we are talking about an unpolished PF version of Danny Ferry with a worse J.



> Originally posted by <b>alphadog</b>!
> He is not as big or nearly as athletic as Dirk. I thought if he dedicated himself to the blocks down low he could give us something like 12/ 9-10, with a threat to move outside once in a while to open up the lane. Not much of a shot blocker but would have at least become a good back-up at the 4-5. If he could defend the rim at all, I would take him as a starter.


They are both listed at 7'0'' as a matter of fact, and btw Nowitzki isn't good at any of the things you mentioned (banging down low, shot blocking, defending the rim), perhaps not even average: an athletic 7'0'' Forward at 1 BpG? 



> Originally posted by <b>Rashidi</b>!
> Most people viewed him as Dirk-lite. Dirk also only scored 8.2 ppg and 3.4 rpg in his rookie year at age 20 (Ferry-esque). Lampe won't be 20 until next season.


A bit of a misleading thought. Dirk was sub-par as a rookie and had real problems adjusting to the way the game is played in the US. Once he did - well, look up his sophomore stats. As a rookie, I would say, Lampe as played as well as we could have expected but he won't break through like Nowitzki did. He isn't near him talent-wise and doesn't have the same upside.



> Originally posted by <b>Rashidi</b>!
> Lampe showed more than Darko did last season. Lampe had a .489 fg% while Darko was .262. Lampe was also .769 from the line, while Darko was .583. Considering those 2 were the youngest players in the league, just looking at stats, I'm willing to bet that Lampe will be ready to contribute before Darko. His jumper is a useful offensive weapon, the only thing keeping him off the court right now seems to be his defense.


So you really think Milicic's stats can be taken seriously?  Darko is worlds ahead of Lampe in every aspect of the game, perhaps even shooting. The fact that they don't (and won't) let him play in Detroit doesn't make Lampe a better player.



> Originally posted by <b>PennyHardaway</b>!
> dirk at 20 was NOT as good as lampe is at 19,i think Don Nelson said this.


Perhaps, but he says a lot. He is also known for saying that Nowitzki was the best 19 year-old he ever saw. There is now way Lampe (19) is better than Nowitzki at 20. Not by a longshot.



> Originally posted by <b>PennyHardaway</b>!
> remeber dirk was on a division TWO team in germany


Yeah, and he was by far Germany's best player at that time. Compare this to Tim Duncan at Wake Forest, which is "only" college ball but Duncan was global basketball top-10 as a college senior.
The same with Nowitzki. He played superbly at "Nike hoop summit", tallying 33 points and 12 boards against US competition. He helped promote his team to Germany's top division (at age 18) where he would average almost 23 PpG ( in a maximum of 40 MpG, remember) the following season before joining the Mavs. Now anyone tell me that Maciej Lampe is even close to doing all this. He made it to the League at an earlier age, granted, but that's about it.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

lampes biggest problem is his commitment to training and sheer athletisicm...He deparately needs to work on his footwork and develop a power fowards game.He is not Dirk-lite..He just doesnt have the skills and no matter where you stick him,he is out of position,due to lack of mobility and quickness at the 3,no low post game,footwork and strength at the 4,and just forget about the 5..He has upside,but he has got to make the commitment to excellence


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## ballstorm (Nov 30, 2003)

Lampe had a very impressive game in the prequalification european round last week. In a game against the best team of the group D (France , Slovenia , poland , Czech Republik) he scored 27 pts (9/16 FG 0/1 3 PT 9/11 FT) and did not commit any T.O. He grabbed 8 rbds. All in all , a great game of him against a good opposition . For a 19 years old player , very promising. France won only by 3 pts (stats here).In 6 games , he averaged 9.2 pts and 5 rbds in 17.5 mn).


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