# Raptors @ Pacers, Feb. 2nd



## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

<center>

















*Toronto Raptors* (18-27) @ *Indiana Pacers* (20-23)
February 2nd, 2005, 7:00PM EST
The Score






































*Milt Palacio, Morris Peterson, Jalen Rose, Chris Bosh, Rafael Araujo*





































*Anthony Johnson, Reggie Miller, Stephen Jackson, Jermaine O'Neal, Jeff Foster*</center>


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## pspot (Jul 14, 2004)

I think starting E WIll would have been a good move here, because We need to shut down Jackson, and let Mo attack Reggie early in the game, let Bosh and Oneil do their thing, but i this is a team that you dont want to come out and start running and gunning with, because they have players that if you let score early will get hot. I thinks it would be better to take Jackson and Reggie out of the game early

Tinsely on Palacio is going to be the X factor in this as, as in if Tinsley is playing well were going to be in trouble


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## RapsFan (Feb 4, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>pspot</b>!
> 
> Tinsely on Palacio is going to be the X factor in this as, as in if Tinsley is playing well were going to be in trouble


Good news is that Tinsley is listed as doubtful for the game.


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## pspot (Jul 14, 2004)

do you know why? that would be huge
I could see Oneil putting up big numbers tonight, but even with that, i still think we could win if we can control everyone else.

If Tins does play, you can always put Mo on him but that still leaves Reggie on Palacio, who can now shoot over which is the only thing Reggie can do, and it leaves Rose and Jackson in a shoot out which could lead to Jackson getting hot


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## 2pac (Nov 19, 2004)

There are a lot of posts people saying to look at prospects for nex year, and then along side they want raps to win. I'ma Huge raptors fan but then i dunno if its a bad thing if i want some game to go down in the L, strictly because looking at next years draft i would want them to get a good pick instead of a 14+pick. Like let this season go with the Vince carter thing and everything, and start fresh next season by getting a good lottery pick and see from there.


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## McFurious (Mar 25, 2004)

I hope we lose.. Im in rebuilding mode.


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## pspot (Jul 14, 2004)

sorry Mc Chuck just said that Tinsely is not going to play tonight....we might actually win this one, i might even say we should win this one


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## McFurious (Mar 25, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>pspot</b>!
> sorry Mc Chuck just said that Tinsely is not going to play tonight....we might actually win this one, i might even say we should win this one


sorry but winning this game is simply.. pointless IMO. I want a high pick come draft time.


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>McFurious</b>!
> 
> 
> sorry but winning this game is simply.. pointless IMO. I want a high pick come draft time.


Well if you want to go on the whole season hoping for losses, you can go ahead. It's not even the all star break yet, we're going to get our fair share of wins if you like it or not.


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## McFurious (Mar 25, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Turkish Delight</b>!
> 
> 
> Well if you want to go on the whole season hoping for losses, you can go ahead. It's not even the all star break yet, we're going to get our fair share of wins if you like it or not.


Im not saying I dont enjoy the Raps winning some games but when it comes to teams like New Jersey who are winning right now and are ahead of us in the standings I like to keep it that way. And you have to think New York isnt going to be in a slump for long so as long as these teams are ahead of us I am happy with that.


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## VTRapsfan (Dec 5, 2004)

Chris Bosh + Game against superstar PF = Big game for Bosh (usually)
Look at how he's played against Duncan and Garnett. I'm pretty sure that every game we've played with Bosh matched up against one of the team's best players at PF, Bosh had a great game and the Raps usually won. Except for Matrix and the Suns...


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## RapsFan (Feb 4, 2003)

I don't see what having a high pick in this draft really does? This draft seems to be weak and I'd rather the team start developing a winning attitude after a couple years of losing than having a high pick. You want to have a situation like the Hawks where they have tons of cap space and lottery bound every year?

Plus in such a weak draft where there will probably be few all star calibre players it is an advantage to have a lower 1st round pick because it translates into a lower guarenteed salary.


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## McFurious (Mar 25, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>RapsFan</b>!
> I don't see what having a high pick in this draft really does? This draft seems to be weak and I'd rather the team start developing a winning attitude after a couple years of losing than having a high pick. You want to have a situation like the Hawks where they have tons of cap space and lottery bound every year?
> 
> Plus in such a weak draft where there will probably be few all star calibre players it is an advantage to have a lower 1st round pick because it translates into a lower guarenteed salary.



This team will not be like another Hawk team just for one reason we have a star player in Bosh. And plus we already have a lower 1st round pick in Philly’s so tell me what can hurt if we a high first rounder the answer nothing... it can only benefit the team. Why win now so we can make the playoffs with a mediocre team and never get out of the first round like Minny. Or we can do what teams like Memphis, Utah, and Chicago have done and build through the draft. With a high draft pick you not only open yourself to get a better player in the draft but also trade possibilities are now a HUGE factor. What people need to understand is that there is a new philosophy in town and that is a rebuilding philosophy.


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## ballocks (May 15, 2003)

i think games like this are going to be very important as we navigate through the balance of our schedule. i think teams like indiana are precisely why we should be demanding more from our team- i mean, some fans just say "the pacers are good" and don't really think about it, but *why* are they good? they are still missing a key piece (and have missed the biggest piece on their roster for a rather long stretch already) and yet they continue to sit in playoff position.

i think the raptors are, at least on paper, very competitive with the pacers- i would say "better" but: a) i try not to use those words; b) it would just go in one ear and out the other. but in reality, we're not. i guess that's why we play these games...

i firmly believe we have to strive to be better, primarily because i think we're better than we think we are.  the raptors _brand_ is damaged at the moment, it almost doesn't matter *what* we do to the roster, so we just have to keep battling (as cliched as that sounds). this game is an example of one i believe we should definitely win- with or without skip, with or without tinsley. 

i guess i'd just find it hard to justify a loss here. i don't know if anyone can prefer the pacers' bench to the raptors' bench, for one thing, but their brand- ironically- is certainly healthier and, at the end of the day, is probably one of the biggest reasons why they're "up there" (not by much, mind you) and we're "down here"- be it in the standings, the minds of the experts or otherwise. 

i hope hoffa and marshall break out of their respective slumps tonight. they've really been hurting the team, marshall due to the everpresent rumour mill, while hoffa seems to have just hit the wall face-first. matt bonner is also playing like... hmm... not like matt bonner. i don't know how he's developing as a player, but he just doesn't look like the same guy he was earlier in the year. our '05 MLE is looking somewhat bigger these days, although matt's not playing all that poorly. of course, i'll reserve comment on marshall and hoffa.

(they've got to pick it up.)

unrelated note: when did bosh last lose a jump ball? maybe against shaq, but i think he's won every--- other--- tip in 2005. in fact, i think he's won the opening tip in ~ 19 of the last 20 games i've watched. it's phenomenal- if i could, i'd go to vegas and put some $$$ down on that outcome... 

peace


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## Lope31 (Jun 11, 2002)

This was a brutal quarter, and I only caught on when the score was 10-7. Now it is 32-18. The Pacers were on a 22-4 run until we got lucky on a Palacio buzzer beater.

The reason this is so bad is that we have nobody on our team with the combination of strength, athleticism and heart. We have some players with each but none with all, and that is why Jeff Foster and Austin Croshere are having their way with us.

We need toughness.


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## JS03 (Jan 5, 2005)

hmmm...not doing so good...halftime


Raptors 36
Pacers 53


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## Lope31 (Jun 11, 2002)

This is brutal Foster had 9 boards a few minutes into the second quarter. The Raptors have nobody to stop him, they need somebody that is quick enough to get around there guy, strong enough to box him out, and has enough balls to actually get a rebound. 

Stephen Jackson is hitting his shots and that's hurting us, he's got 15 at the half, but on the other hand we have Jalen Rose who is shooting pretty well, but way too quickly. You don't come back from down twenty points by shooting five seconds into every possession. Looks like he's calmed that down a little bit though which is good.

The major reason we are losing this game is because we have nobody that tries hard enough down low, talent means nothing if you don't work with it.


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## Lope31 (Jun 11, 2002)

Don't look now but it's a five point game. The Raps have started to move the ball around and are hitting their open shots. Marshall has been doing well and Rose hit a nice one. Mo Pete can't seem to get going and looks like he's trying to hard to knock down some triples.

I'm impressed with Palacio running the team lately, I kind of assumed the worst when I saw he had 5 turnovers half way through the third but he is getting out there and running and his boys are running with him.

Our defence isn't so hot and we are getting kind of lucky they are missing their shots.

Chris Bosh is awesome.


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Lope31</b>!
> Chris Bosh is awesome.


That was a really awesome shot he just made.


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## VTRapsfan (Dec 5, 2004)

Marshall!!!
Raps 96, Pacers 95, 0:22 left in 4th!


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## WXHOOPS (Jan 15, 2004)

Marshall foul and Foster makes both free throws. Good job Marshall, way to lose it for the Raps !


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

Jeff Foster, a 64% FT shooter, makes both FT's to give Indy the lead with 1.9 seconds left.


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## Vinsanity (May 28, 2002)

nice rebounding for the raps :upset:


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## Vinsanity (May 28, 2002)

the bad teams always find a way to lose


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## WXHOOPS (Jan 15, 2004)

Foul by Jackson on Rose ! Seal it Jalen !


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## Vinsanity (May 28, 2002)

holy crap they fouled him

what a *******


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## VTRapsfan (Dec 5, 2004)

NNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
Marshall was about to be the hero of the game, and then he does that...:upset:
EDIT: Yes! I am so glad we didn't trade Jalen Rose with VC!


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## WXHOOPS (Jan 15, 2004)

WHAT A GAME BY BOSH ! 25PTS 15REB 15-17 FROM THE LINE ! HE IS A STAR !


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## JS03 (Jan 5, 2005)

YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
RAPS WIN>..
ONIONS ONIONS AND MORE ONIONS....
I was gonna have a heart attack...

YAY Rose........ Juzt_SICK!!!!!


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

Nice game, no real complaints about the officiating, we've just really sucked lately.


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## VTRapsfan (Dec 5, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>WXHOOPS</b>!
> WHAT A GAME BY BOSH ! 25PTS 15REB 15-17 FROM THE LINE ! HE IS A STAR !


Chris Bosh: 25/15/2/1/0
Jermaine O'Neal: 15/3/1/1/2
Look at my first post in the thread...


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## Lope31 (Jun 11, 2002)

What's the story behind the onions?


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## Primetime23 (Feb 3, 2004)

wow i didnt watch the last 2 seconds out of frustration, what happened? who fouled Jalen and how? pump fake or just stupid play?


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## JS03 (Jan 5, 2005)

Stephen Jackson fouled Jalen....


it went by so fast...I coudln.t really tell if he faked it..


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## Vinsanity (May 28, 2002)

that was just a dumb move by Jackson, should've just put up his hands to Rose's face and challenge him to make that shot


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## JS03 (Jan 5, 2005)

man...I give props for Donyell with those clutch threes....


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Primetime23</b>!
> wow i didnt watch the last 2 seconds out of frustration, what happened? who fouled Jalen and how? pump fake or just stupid play?


Jackson moved into Rose's path as he was dribbling across the 3-point line, and we were over the limit.


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## Mike1155 (Apr 9, 2004)

Rose was trying to go around Jackson to get a shot off & Jackson blocked Rose. 

Big game by Bosh & big win for the team. Almost was for nothing with those 2 turnovers late in the 4th.Clutch 3-ball by Marshall late in the 4th. Palacio was brutal in the 1st half & pretty good in the 2nd half.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

Somebody said it earlier in this thread: some teams find a way to win, some find ways to lose. Indiana folded like a cheap suit in this game. If it wasn't for Foster, we easily could've won by twenty. On the whole, they looked a little bit familiar to our team last season and the way we would forefit during the middle of a game.

I have to start by talking about Chris Bosh. He is doing a wonderful, outstanding, jaw-dropping job of getting to the free throw line. He went to the stripe *seventeen* times tonight! And better yet, he converted on 15 of those. Tonight he surpassed his FTA total from all of last season, to give you an indication of the job he's doing. If he continues at this pace he'll end the season in the top-10 in FTA's, which is so promising.

He did a great job on the offensive glass tonight not just because he has good skills, but because he got the Pacers big men into foul trouble. They didn't crash the defensive boards for fear of picking-up additional fouls. As a result, Chris repeatedly pulled-down boards, especially in the second half. You can affect the game in so many ways by drawing fouls.

We need to give credit to Milt, who started the game really out of control, throwing the ball in every direction and really showing little skill as a floor general, but came-out in the second half and played inspired basketball. Milt flirted with a triple-double tonight, amazingly, but more importantly played a huge 46 minutes and stayed out of foul trouble while playing good defense. We needed to exploit Anthony Johnson, who in a way plays like Milt does, and Palacio did a good job of giving him room to shoot and forcing him to make decisions on the run. Kudos to Milt.

[rant]Why in the hell does Mitchell play Marshall and Bonner together? I've been harping on this all season: those two do not belong on the floor together without a centre. Having those two on the floor at the same time in the late second and early third quarters nearly cost us the game. Neither of them want to stay around the paint for long on defense and we get devoured on the boards when they're together. Please, Sam, when those two are on, get Loren, Hoffa, Aaron--somebody to play centre. Neither of them can. It's not a knock against either of them, but we are going to suffer every time. I don't care how many points we score when they are together because we don't get any stops. Teams are going to anticipate this opportunity in the second quarter and punish us later in the season.[/rant]

Marshall showed us both sides of his character tonight. He was very leaky on the defensive glass, as if he is alergic to boxing-out. But then he came-out and hit some shots in the second half and had some blocks late in the game to help us over the hill. I don't know why Marshall has become so wildly inconsistent, but it hurts us as a team. We expect certain things from him and it's a crapshoot if he'll provide them. I maintain that trading him is a wise decision so long as we can get youth or interior defense back.

Mo Pete started the game in typical road fashion, turning the ball over and generally looking like he drank a case of Red Bull before the game began. I don't know what makes him so erratic on the road, but he calmed down at half and played some impressive defense towards the end of the game. Reggie tried to run him out but Mo kept-up, prevented Miller from getting open three's, and overall did a very nice job helping to control Indiana late in the game. ballocks has touched on this before, but I'll reiterate his point: Mo isn't really inconsistent when it comes to effort, he is just a streaky shooter. For the most part his game doesn't change, just his field goal percentage. I think it's fair to expect more from Mo on the road, however.

JR didn't have a great game but he came-through when we needed it. C4 set the table and Rose finished the last piece of cake, so to say. He did a good job of confusing S-Jax by not running for the pass right away on the final inbounds. He hesitated, looked around like he was going for a screen, then darted-out and ran right into Jackson when he was off-balance. Game over. We ride together!

OC has had some tough nights recently and I really haven't been too critical of him. Maybe I'm biased, considering he's one of my favourite players in the NBA and having him on our team is kind of a dream come true, but he hasn't been doing well. He's been getting into foul trouble and his shooting has been very off. That being said, I think there were about three key defensive stops that Eric enabled for us tonight that helped us win the game. He won't get much credit for it, but drawing that charge late in the fourth was a key moment in the game. It doesn't seem like such a big deal but he really frustrated the Pacers and gave us a bonus opportunity to score. Here's to him getting off the schnide, as Jack would say.

Jeff Foster looks a little bit like Freddy Mercury. I've always admired the way he plays, and he always takes advantage of Toronto's questionable interior defense. If it wasn't for Bosh (and Marshall very late in the game), he could've saved this game for Indiana. He is a hard-nosed player and we could really use a big man that plays like he does. Malik Rose, the latest rumour, wouldn't be perfect, but it makes me wonder.

Welcome back Rafer next game.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

Great battle from behind win. Bosh is learning some valuable lessons this year and is already one of the best power forwards in the league. 

**** I hate Aruajo picking up fouls when he's basically upright and stationary. 

Bosh does exactly what we'd been pleading for Vince to do for years- get people in the air and force them to foul. He's a basketball wizkid, learning the game at an alarming rate.

Ugly first half without the starting point guards but the Raps gritted it out. Nice win on the road to keep the guys upbeat heading toward the trade deadline.


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## ballocks (May 15, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>speedythief</b>!
> That being said, I think there were about three key defensive stops that Eric enabled for us tonight that helped us win the game. He won't get much credit for it, but drawing that charge late in the fourth was a key moment in the game.


enormous! that play had me off my seat! it was so important, especially because it occurred on the same possession that the pacers snagged two offensive boards. we just couldn't clear the glass on the defensive end, down by two, with the pacers eating the shot clock for 24 seconds at a time, then EW steps up and has foster run him over. it was beautiful basketball. 

i thought his three point play just prior to that sequence was also important. we were down by 5 and he managed to convert the old school troika at the expense of JO's 5th foul. big plays by EW late in the game, fantastic.

anyway, i'll have to also credit palacio for a professional second half. not only were his stats relatively good, but his play seemed even better. just composed, careful and aware- he looked like another player. i wonder whether he gained some confidence from this game... and the final play with jalen was due to milt, as well. it was _his_ inbounds pass that came out to rose, and jalen made it count.

in fact, that last play was sensational in many ways. i think mitchell deserves megacredit for drawing it up in the huddle. putting bosh and jalen on the same side of the floor and having them run off of each other confused their two defenders into choosing between one or the other. by the time they reacted to chris, jalen shook open to the top of the key but milt, on a play that i don't believe he would have made even one week ago, resisted not at all to putting the ball in his hands. it appeared that his decision making process was successfully handling two or three developments at once, and he made the right decision by dropping it into jalen. 

by the time jackson caught up with the play he was already out of control, and jalen made him pay. i just thought the sequence was played tremendously by so many raptors. for mitchell to have the confidence to put the ball in milt's hands on the sidelines (with no timeouts remaining) must have done wonders for his confidence. fantastic coaching- and even better execution. 

i'm not gonna say that donyell marshall played a quality 48, but he was certainly in the zone once the fourth Q rolled around. i'm not sure if i'm even talking about his shooting, it was just his disposition overall, his demeanour. i wonder what it takes to unlock that supreme level of concentration from marshall's temple- how do we let him thrive on a more consistent basis? it's like the caramilk secret because he was an _asset_ tonight, on offense *and* defense. that's the marshall i imagine that contenders are drooling over as we approach the deadline. for example, it must have been lots of fun for JO to consistently grab the ball in the post... 18 feet from the bucket. 

then foul out later.

classic game.

peace


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## TRON (Feb 29, 2004)

I missed the game because of school :no:
I gotta catch it on the replay on Raptors TV, sounds like a good game, and a good come back

Miami and teams around the League, time to step ya offer up, cause Donyell is pure money, better believe it!

Bosh = all star


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## 2pac (Nov 19, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>WXHOOPS</b>!
> Marshall foul and Foster makes both free throws. Good job Marshall, way to lose it for the Raps !


How did he loose it for the Raptors?? IF there would be any one to blame for a loss it would've been Bosh. I can i might be the only one on this but if u look at the game with 1:30 remaining i think and we were down couple of points we went to Bosh..he turned it over..nex position we took a time out same thing went to Bosh n he turned it over. Those were two huge possessions he turned them over. Why don't people ever see that? If rose or marshall was to do that, everyone would be pointing it out n noticing it


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## rapsfan4life (Apr 10, 2004)

WOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!

How the hell did we do it, Bosh should picture, Garnett or Duncan or Jo's head everytime he is playing against somebody!!
The kid is awesome:yes: 

Is it just me or is he not all that clutch, i mean he gets the ball down the stretch and he kinda struggles to control it or create big plays, i still love him i have just noticed it this year a lot is all. Anyways, i aint worried the kid is a sponge he will learn


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## madman (Oct 20, 2003)

WOW where to start, the game was just amazing by us in the 2nd half, even though i am the biggest Milt basher i will admit he played pretty good that half. 

I am not sure if it was chuck and Leo or the Pauls(Fan590) but one of them was saying that maybe Rafer would come off the bench! WHY WOULD SAM DO THAT ????? 

We were also lucky that JT wasnt playing


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## Yao Mania (Aug 4, 2003)

Great win, you guys pretty much covered everything. Too bad Boston won tonight too... (but they did beat NJ so it's not too bad)

So should the Raps try to gun for the playoffs and keep Marshall and Rose? or should they trade them and build for the future? Personally I think they should trade Marshall and keep Rose around until his final year, I'm sure a LOT of teams will be interested in dumping $13mil off their salary cap by then.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

cant believe we won didnt expect that at all! hoffa 10 mins and 8 points and 4 boards if he cud stay outta foul trubble he will be really good playa that we will need if we want to becum a contenda! and chris bosh wow this kid is the face of a franchise and he is soo good its great 2 see the raps with such a yung promisin star.


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## CrookedJ (May 8, 2003)

What a pisser I watched the first half of the game while working out and then went over to my girlfirends place and she was like "are your cRaptors losing?" and I said OMG they are playing like ****. I didn't watch the second half. After watching in person the Phx lose on Sunday I had had my fill of watching them getting the snot beaten out of them and it certainly appeared we were in for more of the same.


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## JS03 (Jan 5, 2005)

I guess your just "bad luck"......
juzz quit watching for awhile...till we get over .500... j/k..


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## Yao Mania (Aug 4, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>CrookedJ</b>!
> What a pisser I watched the first half of the game while working out and then went over to my girlfirends place and she was like "are your cRaptors losing?" and I said OMG they are playing like ****. I didn't watch the second half. After watching in person the Phx lose on Sunday I had had my fill of watching them getting the snot beaten out of them and it certainly appeared we were in for more of the same.


Hahaha, Craptors :laugh:


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## ColinBeehler (Oct 14, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>CrookedJ</b>!
> What a pisser I watched the first half of the game while working out and then went over to my girlfirends place and she was like "are your cRaptors losing?" and I said OMG they are playing like ****. I didn't watch the second half. After watching in person the Phx lose on Sunday I had had my fill of watching them getting the snot beaten out of them and it certainly appeared we were in for more of the same.


i was at the PHX game too...

J-J-J-J-JAMMIN!


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## open mike (Jan 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>CrookedJ</b>!
> What a pisser I watched the first half of the game while working out and then went over to my girlfirends place and she was like "are your cRaptors losing?" and I said OMG they are playing like ****. I didn't watch the second half. After watching in person the Phx lose on Sunday I had had my fill of watching them getting the snot beaten out of them and it certainly appeared we were in for more of the same.


lol my girlfriend says the exact same thing... ALL the time.


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## CrookedJ (May 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Juzt_SicK03</b>!
> I guess your just "bad luck"......
> juzz quit watching for awhile...till we get over .500... j/k..


I can count on one hand the number of games i've missed this year - including that half - and I think they have a winning record over those games. Maybe I should quit watching the team altogether.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

Stephen Jackson has been suspended for verbally abusing an official following this game. One game without pay.

Jackson practically had to be dragged to the locker room by teammates after the game.



> "Why do you ask those dumb questions? Are you trying to get me fined? Don't you think we've been fined enough?" Jackson said. "No more questions about calls, and that goes for all of you."


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/basketball/nba/02/03/jackson.suspension/


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