# USA Hoops Only Fools Gold



## CJPhillips (Jun 27, 2005)

Having covered the NBA and Canadian hoops in print and television for nearly 30 years - check my website at www.frozenhoops.com - I have stated as far back as perhaps 10 to 15 years ago that if you took a European national team and placed them in the NBA they would end up as NBA champions? How would Dallas or the Heat do against the national teams from Argentina, Spain, Italy, Brazil, France etc cetera and yes Greece? 
The NBA is ShowTime Baby with highlight reels and marketing while the sport of basketball is real and played on the hardwood five on five. 
It took a while for the Euros and the rest of the world to finally realize that the NBA was just Hollywood and nothin’ in Hollywood is real? 
Bring out Shaq, Kobe, Duncan, McGrady, Iverson, King James, Brand, Wallace, Wade, Garnett, Marion and whom ever else and the result would and may be the same. 
In a 1980 edition of Basketball Weekly I wrote that the NBA should think about changing the NBA All-Star Game to the USA vs. the World. Maybe its time to do just that and change the 2007 NBA All Star match as USA vs. the World. Just imagine the world team? 
Nash, Nowitzki, Yao, Kirilenko, Manu, Gasol, Parker, Nocioni, Stojakovic and the list goes on and on. 
I’d put my last Wilt Chamberlain rookie card on the line that the World team would win. 
Now bring back Chamberlain from the grave and rejuvenate Michael Jordan and then the ball will spin a different way. :clap:


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Maybe it's time to break down the divide of us vs. them instead?
Chris Paul and Tony Parker play a lot alike.
Josh Howard could play for Argentina.
Boris Diaw is Lamar Odom without the malaise.
Steve Nash is the new Pistol Pete.
Dirk and KG are a lot alike.
Pietrus and Artest are both nasty.
Sergio Rodriguez is Jason Williams.

Most of these foreign based guys are growing up on the NBA. They want to make flashy dunks like the american young guys do. They want to throw crazy passes, shoot 3s from deep.

Maybe it's time to recognize our similarities instead of our diffrences? Or embrace our diffrences, while reveling in our similarities?

Bill Walton is the Godhead.

Also Peja is garbage. Hasn't done jack in a lonnng time. Give me Stephen Jackson over him any day and twice on sundays. It would be a travesty for him to rep anything like an all-star team. He's a one dimensional player who isn't even that good at his one dimension any more.


----------



## Roscoe Sheed (Jun 19, 2006)

Yeah, i think the Nba superstars get used to the star treatment and can't handle it when calls don't get their way or when the opposing guys aren't in awe/fear of them


----------



## scooter (Oct 22, 2003)

This thread is idiotic. Folks are drawing ridiculous conclusions from the fact that the US lost a basketball game by 6 points. Ask this question -- does the fact that Brazil didn't make the World Cup championship game mean their days as a soccer power are behind them? Of course not. In a single elimination tournament, the best team doesn't always win and the most talented team doesn't always win. 

It was one 40 minute game (the shorter games also create more opportunities for upsets, as we see in the NCAA tournament every year). Don't over generalize.


----------



## L (Sep 20, 2005)

scooter said:


> This thread is idiotic. Folks are drawing ridiculous conclusions from the fact that the US lost a basketball game by 6 points. Ask this question -- does the fact that Brazil didn't make the World Cup championship game mean their days as a soccer power are behind them? Of course not. In a single elimination tournament, the best team doesn't always win and the most talented team doesn't always win.
> 
> It was one 40 minute game (the shorter games also create more opportunities for upsets, as we see in the NCAA tournament every year). Don't over generalize.


repped.


----------



## DKaiser (Jul 28, 2006)

With the pursuit for Gold in the FIBA World now over, USA Basketball has to regroup...and fast! 2008 is less than two years away.

What are the chances Team USA can pull it off in Beijing? That depends. International teams wouldn't dare count out Team USA in any tournament. They're beatable alright...but still a force to reckon with. They can't possibly be beaten every time they play...right? If Team USA shows up shooting the lights out from 3-point land, they're obviously hard to beat.

The premise is: if Team USA can shoot their free-throws, three-pointers, dominate the boards, defend well, use their heads, and minimize turnovers...they'd win, period. Obviously easier said than done.

So what can make this happen? You've got to choose players well (emphasize smart decision-making, shooting, rebounding, and defense) and a coaching staff that can effectively utilize and make plays for all 12 players. That in itself is a tough task. It's easy to get blinded by over-hyped players like Le Bonehead James who'd just disappoint you in the tough games.

The team that's playing in the Worlds has some damn good players that should be retained. The player that obviously stood out was Carmelo Anthony. Wade could've done more damage against opposing teams if he could play off a dominant center like Shaq...kind of like the way Juan Carlos Navarro or Calderon plays off Pau Gasol in Spain's vaunted two-man game. Trouble is, Howard can hardly be considered a dominant center. He's more an athletic forward that plays like a Marcus Camby.

I kinda sensed that Team USA in this tournament was composed of players that's designed to turn games into track meets. Chris Paul, Kirk Hinrich, and Wade are exactly the type of players that can create turnovers through quick steals or full-court pressure. However, if you've noticed, games between top international teams do not have much dunking going on. They always have good, solid ballhandlers and support players that can break any full court pressure. The good defensive teams like Italy and Argentina are also quick to get back on defense. So excellent fastbreak finishers almost become useless as a result. Think Lebron James again.

2008 will be a different story altogether. With the entry of Kobe, Amare, and perhaps Michael Redd, Chauncey Billups, or Rip Hamilton...and hopefully a more dominant center (question is who?)...maybe they'd improve on a LeBronze finish.


----------



## DKaiser (Jul 28, 2006)

scooter said:


> Ask this question -- does the fact that Brazil didn't make the World Cup championship game mean their days as a soccer power are behind them? Of course not.


You can't always say "even though we lost, we're still the best". When you say the best, it's only with respect to a tournament. In the FIBA Worlds, Team USA wasn't the best team, period. They were "brought down to their knees" (as the Greek papers have put it).


----------



## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

I have a big question as to how much anyone should really care about FIBA and their perverse version of basketball.Those clowns have had horrible referees as long as anyone can remember and this is an opinion held by everyone concerned.Aside from the fact that they have mangled the game beyond all recognition this is an Organization that lacks institutional control and which has extremely dubious credibility.If they can not provide anything resembling fair and equal officiation then they are not worthy of anyone's respect.There is a reason that American sports league go to such extremes to safeguard what is always referred to as the _Integrity of the Game_.If the public has no trust that the games are decided honestly by the competitors then your product has little value.

The game they play is no longer basketball and it's neither entertaining nor is the integrity of their game above question to say the least.In brief they are at a minimum incompetent and incapable of providing a product that is worthy of our respect.At the most they are a corrupt organization and their product is corrupt as well.If you go into a casino you will win some times,but the house always has the advantage.


----------



## Darman (Jun 29, 2006)

Diable said:


> I have a big question as to how much anyone should really care about FIBA and their perverse version of basketball.Those clowns have had horrible referees as long as anyone can remember and this is an opinion held by everyone concerned.Aside from the fact that they have mangled the game beyond all recognition this is an Organization that lacks institutional control and which has extremely dubious credibility.If they can not provide anything resembling fair and equal officiation then they are not worthy of anyone's respect.There is a reason that American sports league go to such extremes to safeguard what is always referred to as the _Integrity of the Game_.If the public has no trust that the games are decided honestly by the competitors then your product has little value.
> 
> The game they play is no longer basketball and it's neither entertaining nor is the integrity of their game above question to say the least.In brief they are at a minimum incompetent and incapable of providing a product that is worthy of our respect.At the most they are a corrupt organization and their product is corrupt as well.If you go into a casino you will win some times,but the house always has the advantage.


Are you crazy????

Corruption in World Champ? Maybe against USA you think...

I'll tell you why the refs made so many mistakes: all FIBA refs are from different nations, and the way basketball is officiated is different.

Look at the Football World Cup: the way a Spanish ref directs the game is A LOT different by the English ref. And Italian from Brazilian too.

FIBA rules are more difficult to manage, and sometimes a foul isn't whistled. It's part of the game. Italy got twice an brazilian ref who whistled invisible fouls, totally wrong. But Italy don't search excuses in these mistakes because in Basketball, differently by Football (your Soccer), a single or 2 fer's mistakes don't change the results of the games!

Usa got their wrong calls too. But got also great presents: look at ALL the not called travellings, and more then once Wade got a defence's foul without been touched.

So don't say the World Championship's refs were corrupted.

Usa lost because the uber-players don't know how to defend; it's an excuse the "3 week training" too, the other national teams don't train more!

The difference is that international guy are MORE COMPLETE players; it's true that americans are 3 times more ATHLETIC than internationals, but the latters shoot better and are 4 times more SMART then NBA players.

If you take a italian player and switch him from an italian team to another, he will take a week to learn the new team's strategies and schemes, because basketball schools prepared him.

Athletism is still the most important factor in basketball (international and NBA) BUT you can't omit basket IQ because only athletism is no more enough.

If you omit basket IQ you have the actual NBA, and be sure, a lot of europeans prefer Euroleague.
I agree with the thread starter: Actual NBA IS Hollywood, where marketing (=> money) is the most important thing, more than result...


----------



## SianTao (Jul 11, 2005)

Don't waste your time replying to that troll-mod Diable in serious fashion. No use, really.


----------



## scooter (Oct 22, 2003)

DKaiser said:


> You can't always say "even though we lost, we're still the best". When you say the best, it's only with respect to a tournament. In the FIBA Worlds, Team USA wasn't the best team, period. They were "brought down to their knees" (as the Greek papers have put it).


US basketball is still the best. There I've said it. I disagree with the litany of articles that is going to say otherwise. I don't care how many articles or opinions there are, I will disagree with them.

In FIBA competition right now its a close competition between the US and Spain, Argentina, Greece and maybe another team or two. But there are caveats. 

One is that its FIBA competition. People will not accept this but its a significant handicap to our team that we play under everyone else's rules. The rules and officiating are significantly different. For one thing, they allow moving picks all over the court, something that has a variety of effects I will explain if you want. Its very hard to adjust when you play under NBA rules the entire year and have a single elimination tournament with short 40 minute games under FIBA rules. Its not that the US cannot win. But I am saying -- make no mistake -- its a significant advantage for the other teams. Sometimes the US can overcome it with superior talent, but when the other team plays very well (the Greeks are not usually going to shoot it like they did), its tough to overcome a handicap.

Second is that as more foreign players play in the NBA, its going to hurt the foreign teams. First, the players are going to be playing the much longer, harder NBA season and they will be more beat up and less motivated to put their bodies on the line for these tournaments. Same issue when they are making more money and have more opportunity to make money. We've already seen that with some of the eastern european teams -- NBA players have chosen not to play, citing injury rehab etc. The NBA season is much longer, the games are longer, the players have more injury problems, surgeries etc. When more Greeks and Argentinians and Spaniards are in the NBA, you will see their national teams missing more of their top players. 

Basketball has spread and is the second most popular sport in the world. Of course in a world of more than 6 billion people, there will be good players and teams in other countries. And we play a larger variety of sports in the US so the athlete population is split up. 

With all that, we still have the best basketball. I've watched Euro league games on TV. Its not as good as the NBA. Period. If it was, American players who are not good enough for the NBA (Tyus Edney is a good example) wouldn't be star players overseas.


----------



## L (Sep 20, 2005)

Heres a good question(personally i dont like FIBA basketball) :
Which would you rather watch,FIBA(40 mins,more team oriented, slower pace, different rules like knocking balls off the rim and moving screens, shorter 3pt line, shortens difference between great players and bad players) or NBA(more emphasis on athleticism, bigger 3pt line, more highlights, 48mins, rules such as moving screens are not allowed, better refs, more talent)?


----------



## Darman (Jun 29, 2006)

scooter said:


> With all that, we still have the best basketball. I've watched Euro league games on TV. Its not as good as the NBA. Period. If it was, American players who are not good enough for the NBA (Tyus Edney is a good example) wouldn't be star players overseas.


Your opinion, I have mine :biggrin: 

From some years NBA games are boring. Not all american players are superstars in Europe: only the talented ones since they combine their superior athletism with skill and don't play only because they can make great dunk.

As I said in another thread, NBA and International basketball are too different to say "mine is the best". It's easier from US to win with American players who play in Europe than the NBA guys.


----------



## Helter Skelter (Jun 27, 2005)

What really happens is that US players have changed athletic with talent . In the NBA , teams , run and dunk , no strategies , no far shoots and this is not basket . 

The day the bests europeans coaches go to the NBA , the basket return to America .


----------



## jordan0386 (Jul 4, 2006)

^^^no

obviously, you just started watching hoops


----------



## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

Diable said:


> If they can not provide anything resembling fair and equal officiation then they are not worthy of anyone's respect.There is a reason that American sports league go to such extremes to safeguard what is always referred to as the _Integrity of the Game_.If the public has no trust that the games are decided honestly by the competitors then your product has little value.


The NBA finals were officiated worse than this years international competition.


----------



## scooter (Oct 22, 2003)

Helter Skelter said:


> What really happens is that US players have changed athletic with talent . In the NBA , teams , run and dunk , no strategies , no far shoots and this is not basket .
> 
> The day the bests europeans coaches go to the NBA , the basket return to America .


This is idiotic. Nothing more needs to be said.


----------



## jordan0386 (Jul 4, 2006)

dude is from Spain...english may not be that could...im guessing it isnt


----------



## L (Sep 20, 2005)

Helter Skelter said:


> What really happens is that US players have changed athletic with talent . In the NBA , teams , run and dunk , no strategies , no far shoots and this is not basket .
> 
> The day the bests europeans coaches go to the NBA , the basket return to America .


Honestly, nice try on the english, but your knowledge of the nba is very tiny.


----------



## alex (Jan 7, 2003)

DKaiser said:


> You can't always say "even though we lost, we're still the best". When you say the best, it's only with respect to a tournament. In the FIBA Worlds, Team USA wasn't the best team, period. They were "brought down to their knees" (as the Greek papers have put it).


heheheh. . . so, nowadays losing by six is getting "brought down to their knees"? Those are some pretty high standards. . . I bet tomorrow no US paper's gunna have "Argentina mercilessly OBBLITERATED!!!!" And I thought we Americans were cocky. :sigh:


----------



## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

futuristxen said:


> Steve Nash is the new Pistol Pete


I got a chuckle out of that one, Steve Nash is nowhere near as good nor does he play like Pistol Pete. Manu Ginboili is a better example of Pistol Pete. 

I will break it down for you:

Pistol Pete was a scorer who could play the Point if needed.

Steve Nash is a Point who can score every now and then.


Pistol was a better shooter, scorer, passer, ball-handler, ETC. than Nash. Steve Nash is more unselfish and has a better team concept than Pistol and thats it. 

Plus Manu is the only one I see with Pistol's flair for the fancy and his moxie. Nash just passes kind of like Pistol.


----------



## JoeOtter15 (Apr 22, 2005)

Helter Skelter said:


> What really happens is that US players have changed athletic with talent . In the NBA , teams , run and dunk , no strategies , no far shoots and this is not basket .
> 
> The day the bests europeans coaches go to the NBA , the basket return to America .


un coach de europe es el coach de los phoenix suns. Los Phoenix suns playar muy similar para tu explanationa. corre y dunka, no strategias, y no shootas fara.


----------



## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

Sir Patchwork said:


> The NBA finals were officiated worse than this years international competition.


I have nothing but disgust for the way that the finals were officiated.However let's pose a question.

Let's say that all three refs got together and decided to fix tomorrow's gold medal game...Would anyone be able to tell the difference between that and any other game?How can anyone tell whether these guys suck because they suck or if they are sucking out of some nefarious plot.


----------

