# Will Dirk Nowitzki Make the HOF?



## StackAttack (Mar 15, 2006)

It's something I've been thinking about lately, and...well, he's our franchise player, the best player the city of Dallas has ever seen. One of the Top 5 players in this league undoubtedly...but 8 years into his career, I just don't feel like Dirk will ever be named to the Hall of Fame, while 3 years after the 2003 draft I'm 95% sure that LeBron and Dwyane are both locks for the HOF. Am I the only one who feels this way?


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## AZNoob (Jan 21, 2006)

Well, the King was really hyped up to be one of the best rookies when he entered, and he has proven it over the past few years. Dwayne has won a championship, and has also acquired Finals MVP status. Dirk was not all hyped up when he entered the league, but now, he is emerging as one of the best players in the league. The next few years will tell us if he is HOF material.


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## StackAttack (Mar 15, 2006)

I suppose...he just turned 28, which is supposed to be the beginning of a player's prime...


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## xray (Feb 21, 2005)

This topic has been raised before, and my answer was yes. 

HOF inducties must be a contributer of the league's legacy that he/she was a part of. Despite Dirk's numbers - whatever they may be when he retires - this is the standard that puts him above other players with similar careers/numbers.

1) Changed the position. The 4 spot has forever been refined from a power player who d's it up and rebounds, to a player who can (and did) win the 3pt competition as well as rebound and display an inside game, to a player who score from anywhere on the floor. Player development globally will forever be effected.

2) Changed the game. Matchup nightmare according to coaches around the league. How it redefines the concept of coaching is still being effected. 

3) A good guy who has won a championship*

* Give him time. :wait:


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## Pain5155 (May 28, 2006)

LeBron is 99% on his way, D-Wade has won a title and WILL go to the HOF, if Dirk can win a title, or multiple mvps (which is unlikely since LeBron will take over the next 18 some years), he will go to the HOF.


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## StackAttack (Mar 15, 2006)

I guess Bray brings up some good points. Plus he was the first international player to be elevated to such high status in the NBA.


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## The Future7 (Feb 24, 2005)

I think Dirk will end up in the HOF. His skill set is so broad and people are beginning to see more of him. He is also still improving. His buddy Nash is already a lock to get into the HOF just because he won 2 MVP awards.


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## Saint Baller (May 3, 2006)

Pain5155 said:


> LeBron is 99% on his way, D-Wade has won a title and WILL go to the HOF, if Dirk can win a title, or multiple mvps (which is unlikely since LeBron will take over the next 18 some years), he will go to the HOF.


 Your saying it's unlikely that Dirk will win an MVP? Please man, Dirk is still going through his prime and yes King is just amazing but he is not amazing enough to win 18 in a row, by your logic


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

If he plays at this level for just a couple more seasons, I'd think it would be hard to keep him out.

An MVP or a championship is a free ticket for him.


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## The Future7 (Feb 24, 2005)

M F F L said:


> Your saying it's unlikely that Dirk will win an MVP? Please man, Dirk is still going through his prime and yes King is just amazing but he is not amazing enough to win *18 in a row*, by your logic


Lebron will be retired in 18 years. He wont even play that long because he will have so many MVP and championships along with Wade.


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## Saint Baller (May 3, 2006)

The Future7 said:


> Lebron will be retired in 18 years. He wont even play that long because he will have so many MVP and championships along with Wade.


 But did you read that guys logic?

He is saying LeBron will dominate for 18 years meaning NO CHANCE for Dirk to win MVP/Championship, that would either mean Bron getting 18 MVP's or 18 rings which both are completely impossible


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## The Future7 (Feb 24, 2005)

Dirk doesnt even have to win a Ship to get into the HOF. He is playing at a high level and still improving. Look at guys like Ewing, Miller, Malone, Stockton and Barkely. I'm sure they may get into the HOF. Look at Iverson, he still can keep trying to get a Ship but he will be a HOFer if he doesnt get one


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## StackAttack (Mar 15, 2006)

I don't know why anyone takes Pain seriously.


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## xray (Feb 21, 2005)

The Future7 said:


> Lebron will be retired in 18 years. He wont even play that long because he will have so many MVP and championships along with Wade.


Not to mention $$$.

OT, but that's a big time theory of mine. All time numbers are increasingly safe because a player can build a huge nest egg in a shorter period of time. :makeadeal


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

To become an icon, he needs maybe 2 titles on top of his status as a european pioneer.

But he's a HOFer, 5-6 more years like this, he's a shoo-in. Maybe not even that many, considering the recognition he's gonna get for being one of the first great Euros.


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## xray (Feb 21, 2005)

_Dre_ said:


> To become an icon, he needs maybe 2 titles on top of his status as a european pioneer.
> 
> But he's a HOFer, 5-6 more years like this, he's a shoo-in. Maybe not even that many, considering the recognition he's gonna get for being one of the first great Euros.


I agree, but the team surrounding Dirk is hurting his appeal as an "icon" imo.


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## StackAttack (Mar 15, 2006)

bray1967 said:


> I agree, but the team surrounding Dirk is hurting his appeal as an "icon" imo.


Really? That team was two wins away from a ship...


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

bray1967 said:


> I agree, but the team surrounding Dirk is hurting his appeal as an "icon" imo.


 What do you mean? That they aren't good, or they're selfish?


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## xray (Feb 21, 2005)

_Dre_ said:


> What do you mean? That they aren't good, or they're selfish?


I mean that the talent is more evenly spread amongst the Mavericks than say Jordan's Bulls or Shaq & Kobe's Lakers. 

There are examples like Magic & Kareem's teams. Those are more like the situation we have here, in that Worthy, Scott, et al. are great talents, but Magic and Kareem were way above their teammates' level.

Dirk, imo, isn't that far above.


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## StackAttack (Mar 15, 2006)

Really? I think the difference between Dirk and JET/JHo is bigger than the difference between MJ and Scottie.


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## t1no (Jul 10, 2005)

Dirk is the best european player to ever play in the NBA and the only 7 ft guy that can make 3 points. Those are the only reasons why Dirk would make the HOF.


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## t1no (Jul 10, 2005)

StackAttack said:


> Really? I think the difference between Dirk and JET/JHo is bigger than the difference between MJ and Scottie.


Well after watching the Mavericks vs Heat finals, not much difference between Jet and Dirk.


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## StackAttack (Mar 15, 2006)

t1no said:


> Dirk is the best european player to ever play in the NBA and the only 7 ft guy that can make 3 points. Those are the only reasons why Dirk would make the HOF.


I wouldn't say the ONLY 7 ft guy...in fact, most Europeans are able to, big or small...


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## StackAttack (Mar 15, 2006)

t1no said:


> Well after watching the Mavericks vs Heat finals, not much difference between Jet and Dirk.


I'm kind of pretending the Finals were a part of my imagination.


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## t1no (Jul 10, 2005)

StackAttack said:


> I'm kind of pretending the Finals were a part of my imagination.


No it happened. :banana:


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## t1no (Jul 10, 2005)

StackAttack said:


> I wouldn't say the ONLY 7 ft guy...in fact, most Europeans are able to, big or small...


Well he's the only NBA player that can.


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## StackAttack (Mar 15, 2006)

I meant Europeans in the NBA, no names really come to me off the top of my head, but Vladimir Radmonovic is like 6-10 and Andrea Bargnani, although he has yet to prove himself, is on his way to 7 ft.


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## t1no (Jul 10, 2005)

StackAttack said:


> I meant Europeans in the NBA, no names really come to me off the top of my head, but Vladimir Radmonovic is like 6-10 and Andrea Bargnani, although he has yet to prove himself, is on his way to 7 ft.


Maybe but those players are trash.!!


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

t1no said:


> Maybe but those players are trash.!!


 You mean 3 point specialist Radman who just got like 50M and number one pick Bargnani? Sounds like trash to me.


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

t1no said:


> the only 7 ft guy that can make 3 points.


Kind of a lame reason. Gasol's the only European 7-footer to average 4+ assists, but that's not worth putting him in the HOF over.


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## t1no (Jul 10, 2005)

Rawse said:


> Kind of a lame reason. Gasol's the only European 7-footer to average 4+ assists, but that's not worth putting him in the HOF over.


Not saying it's worth putting him in the HOF over but if he does make it then that's one of the few reasons.


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## t1no (Jul 10, 2005)

_Dre_ said:


> You mean 3 point specialist Radman who just got like 50M and number one pick Bargnani? Sounds like trash to me.


Bargnani? Not even one NBA game yet so let's not bring his name up just yet. Radman? come on now... is he a superstar all of a sudden? and no i don't think he just got like 50M.


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

t1no said:


> Not saying it's worth putting him in the HOF over but if he does make it then that's one of the few reasons.


Being able to shoot threes at 7-feet tall doesn't make a player HOF-worthy is all I'm saying. There are many reasons to qualify Dirk for the HOF before that even becomes an issue.

It's similar to saying put a 5'5 guy in the HOF because he can dunk or averages 1.5 blocks per game. It's just an anomaly, not a HOF trait.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

I'm not talking about them being HOFers, you said they were trash. And they aren't. If Bargnani was trash, he wouldn't have been drafted number one.


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## t1no (Jul 10, 2005)

_Dre_ said:


> I'm not talking about them being HOFers, you said they were trash. And they aren't. If Bargnani was trash, he wouldn't have been drafted number one.


You misunderstood me, lots of high drafted players come into the NBA and are busts. So what i meant was don't bring him name up just yet.


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## t1no (Jul 10, 2005)

Rawse said:


> Being able to shoot threes at 7-feet tall doesn't make a player HOF-worthy is all I'm saying. There are many reasons to qualify Dirk for the HOF before that even becomes an issue.
> 
> It's similar to saying put a 5'5 guy in the HOF because he can dunk or averages 1.5 blocks per game. It's just an anomaly, not a HOF trait.


I don't think he should make the HOF, but if you look through the top 50 HOF well he's a much better player than some of them.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

t1no said:


> I don't think he should make the HOF, but if you look through the top 50 HOF well he's a much better player than some of them.


 So....what are you saying?


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## t1no (Jul 10, 2005)

_Dre_ said:


> So....what are you saying?


The list sucks? Some of them shouldn't be on it? I don't know, what do you think?


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## Flash is the Future (May 12, 2006)

He should make the Hall with a few more playoff runs which I have no doubt he will.


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## t1no (Jul 10, 2005)

Flash is the Future said:


> He should make the Hall with a few more playoff runs which I have no doubt he will.


A ring would help [email protected]? :biggrin: Who cares, hopefully Daniels will join him.


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## Pain5155 (May 28, 2006)

All im saying is LeBron is gonna continue to get better, and soon he'll be unstoppable. Of course he wont win 18 straight MVPS, but he will win alot cause its the journalists who vote. D-wade will win a few, and throw in some other young players. Bottom line it will be tough for Dirk to win an MVP.


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

t1no said:


> I don't think he should make the HOF, but if you look through the top 50 HOF well he's a much better player than some of them.


I don't think you're understanding my point.


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## t1no (Jul 10, 2005)

Rawse said:


> I don't think you're understanding my point.


"I don't think he should make the HOF," That's my answer to you, the second part was extra.


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## Saint Baller (May 3, 2006)

t1no said:


> "I don't think he should make the HOF," That's my answer to you, the second part was extra.


 But you also think the Mavs would be a better team without the rookie coach Avery Johson, so can we just ignore your thoughts?


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## t1no (Jul 10, 2005)

M F F L said:


> But you also think the Mavs would be a better team without the rookie coach Avery Johson, so can we just ignore your thoughts?


Sure if you can find me posting something like that. All i said was Avery made a lot of mistakes, rookie mistakes and stupid mistakes, if you didn't agree with me then you should have said something but you didn't. Sorry but i thought i said something like this also "Avery will be a great coach in 5-10 years" "great" not good coach but great, and seriously in my book there is only 1 of them. I have the right to post my opinions, if you don't like it then do not respond. Back to what you said, i never liked Nellie basketball even though i do not like Avery but i am still happy that we have a coach that is focused on defense, i just wished he brought more to the table then just yelling and getting through the player's head, but that's a start and maybe a good thing since we have so many young players.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

t1no said:


> i just wished he brought more to the table then just yelling *and getting through the player's head*


So you're saying you'd rather have the players stomping all over him? You're constantly confusing me in this thread.


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## xray (Feb 21, 2005)

http://www.basketballreference.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=NOWITDI01



> Similar Players (Career)
> Tracy Mcgrady (933)
> Vince Carter (892)
> Paul Pierce (864)
> ...


Rather exhausting comparison, but I wanted to see just how Dirk's projected path was coming along when considering other players at this point in his career. They have T-Mac as Dirk's closest statistical match.


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## t1no (Jul 10, 2005)

_Dre_ said:


> So you're saying you'd rather have the players stomping all over him? You're constantly confusing me in this thread.


Did you read my post? i said maybe it's good thing since we have many young players in the Mavericks, and i said brought "more" to the table then just yelling and getting through the player's head. Read my post again, i think overrall he did good last year, our defense really improved but i still think he could have done a better job in the finals, i didn't see many adjustments.


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## Jet (Jul 1, 2005)

I feel Dirk should make it to the HOF, not for a long time though, I mean... How many dominate 7' Germans who can shoot the 3 are in the NBA and made it big? Theres not many guys like from Germany and have one of the purest jumpers in the league.. Grant it, hes not a post up player, but he finds other ways to beat his big man defenders. When he rises for a jumper he releases his shot at about 8 feet.. thats hard to block... but if Dirk doesnt win a title, I dont see him making the HOF.. although I think he should anyways.


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## t1no (Jul 10, 2005)

Jet said:


> I feel Dirk should make it to the HOF, not for a long time though, I mean... How many dominate 7' Germans who can shoot the 3 are in the NBA and made it big? Theres not many guys like from Germany and have one of the purest jumpers in the league.. Grant it, hes not a post up player, but he finds other ways to beat his big man defenders. When he rises for a jumper he releases his shot at about 8 feet.. thats hard to block... but if Dirk doesnt win a title, I dont see him making the HOF.. although I think he should anyways.


If he wins a championship i think he will make the HOF.


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## StackAttack (Mar 15, 2006)

I'm still undecided after all these months, but Pop-a-***** seems to think so:

*Popovich thinks Nowitzki is bound for Hall of Fame

Web Posted: 01/06/2007 12:33 AM CST

Johnny Ludden
Express-News*

Spurs coach Gregg Popovich didn't need to see Friday's performance by Dirk Nowitzki to offer an opinion on where the Dallas' forward will end his career.

"He's definitely a Hall of Famer," Popovich said before the game. "He's definitely going to be one of the greatest forwards ever to play the position because he has not only established himself as one of the best players in the league, but he's improved.

"He couldn't get a rebound when he first came in the league. In some ways, he couldn't even get a shot off. Then you think about where he is now, where nobody can guard the guy.

"And not only does he rebound, but he knows where the most important rebounds are. In Games 3 and 4 (of last season's Western Conference semifinals series) at their place, we've got the game in hand, and he goes and gets offensive rebounds in both games. That turned the fortunes of both of those games around."

Nowitzki did nothing to diminish his credentials Friday, scoring 36 points while making 14 of 23 shots. He scored 31 when the Mavericks beat the Spurs on Nov. 24.

"He's a big-time, big-play player on top of being who he is in the first place," Popovich said. "He makes Manu Ginobili-type plays at the end of games. For a seven-footer to do that, that's pretty special."


My bad: The Spurs weren't the only ones who missed Jason Terry's critical rebound late in the fourth quarter.

So did their stat crew.

Terry's rebound and basket of Nowitzki's 3-pointer with 1:44 left were both mistakenly credited to Josh Howard in the official box score. The error also was reflected in the final stats.

After the oversight was noted, Terry had 10 points (5-of-11 shooting) and seven rebounds, including four offensive. Howard had 16 points (6-of-16 shooting) and 11 rebounds, two offensive.

Sigh: Dallas owner Mark Cuban wore a blue T-shirt he had printed for Friday's game: "I went to the San Antonio River Walk and all I got was a rash."

Cuban called the River Walk an "ugly-***, muddy-watered thing" during last season's playoffs. The city announced plans to clean up the San Antonio River shortly afterward.

Offensive performance: Ripped by their coach in recent days for their inconsistent play at the defensive end, the Spurs corrected that problem Friday.

But as good as they were defensively, the Spurs were worse on offense in the critical fourth quarter. A scoring drought that lasted nearly five minutes cost them an opportunity to expand on a lead at a time their defense was producing stops at the other end of the court.


"Sometimes it's going to happen," said Ginobili, who had three-point plays — one the old-fashioned way and one with a shot from beyond the 3-point arc — on both ends of the lapse that lasted from 8:37 of the fourth period to 3:38. "Thing is, we have to keep them away from scoring during that five minutes, and they didn't score that much then, either."

Briefly: Bruce Bowen ended his 0-for-leather streak. After going 0 for 12 in two games since the NBA switched from the microfiber ball to leather, Bowen missed two more shots Friday before making a runner late in the second quarter. ... One fan held up this sign: "Matt Bonner stole my girlfriend and I'm totally cool with it."


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## LineOFire (Apr 20, 2004)

He's a borderline hall of fame player right now. I think he will win MVP this year and when he does he will be a lock. A shiny championship trophy would guarantee him a place at Springfield.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

If he was an average player, he'd have a shot just on the strength of his breaking international barriers. But him being one of the best of his generation also? Shoo-in.


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## Ninjatune (May 1, 2006)

The Future7 said:


> Lebron will be retired in 18 years. He wont even play that long because he will have so many MVP and championships along with Wade.


Lebron better find him a decent sidekick before he even thinks about dominating anything. Last I checked, the NBA wasn't 1 on 1.


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