# The Ultimate Bargnani Thread



## ItalianStallion (Jun 8, 2005)

i rarely post on bbb.net but i do follow it regularly. with that said, w/ all of these Bargnani haters/lovers i think it would be useful to make a thread where you can post all of your questions about Andrea. all of us italians who happen to watch him play at least twice a week will be glad to answer them and we'll try to be as accurate as possible.


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## ralaw (Feb 24, 2005)

Having seen him several times, what player do you most compare him to in the NBA? 
Do you expect him to have similar success (to the player you compared him to)? 
Worse case scenerio (assuming he doesn't develop) who would you compare him to?
Does he have a work ethic?


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

ItalianStallion said:


> i rarely post on bbb.net but i do follow it regularly. with that said, w/ all of these Bargnani haters/lovers i think it would be useful to make a thread where you can post all of your questions about Andrea. all of us italians who happen to watch him play at least twice a week will be glad to answer them and we'll try to be as accurate as possible.



i'll go with the obvious question since you are a sabonis fan, do you see any similarities, i saw some of sabonis back in the late 80's and he was great, to me bargnani is a differant type player but there are a few little things there that kind of bring back some memories. another question what kind of cheap shot was that on the italian against brian mcbride in the world cup. not very charitable there.


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

Can he play center in the NBA?


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## ItalianStallion (Jun 8, 2005)

ralaw said:


> Having seen him several times, what player do you most compare him to in the NBA?
> Do you expect him to have similar success (to the player you compared him to)?
> Worse case scenerio (assuming he doesn't develop) who would you compare him to?
> Does he have a work ethic?


i believe that there is no player that really resembles andrea so much. andrea is a shot blocking machine and in this he differs very much from dirk (see how he was constantly beaten by miami attackers in game 4). in the last games, the other teams seem to be scared to go one on one against andrea because he can virtually stop anybody.
stats-wise and only stat-wise i think hell be a pau gasol-type of player. im saying around 18ppg, 7rebounds, 4assists and a couple blocks per game. 
he does have work ethic, and he has improved dramatically in the last few years, so i dont think he won't develop. also, his mom is an english teacher so language should not be a huge barrier for him.


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## ItalianStallion (Jun 8, 2005)

rainman said:


> i'll go with the obvious question since you are a sabonis fan, do you see any similarities, i saw some of sabonis back in the late 80's and he was great, to me bargnani is a differant type player but there are a few little things there that kind of bring back some memories. another question what kind of cheap shot was that on the italian against brian mcbride in the world cup. not very charitable there.


i dont think that sabas and andrea have similar games. as a matter of fact, sabas was a pure center, a legit 7'3 and probably around 280 with great passing abilities. andrea loves to stretch defences and his range goes all the way to the 3point line. he is faster and probably more athletic but not as strong and he does not have sabas's IQ (yet).
right now, andrea can play center but only for a few stints, not because of strenght but because of his inside game. i think andrea's inside game is as of now the worst part of his game.
OT: that was definetly a cheap shot, but dont go too hard on our kid: hes only 22 and after the game he went to apologize in tears. those things are a part of the game of soccer. and mastroeni did a pretty bad foul too... :biggrin:


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

ItalianStallion said:


> i dont think that sabas and andrea have similar games. as a matter of fact, sabas was a pure center, a legit 7'3 and probably around 280 with great passing abilities. andrea loves to stretch defences and his range goes all the way to the 3point line. he is faster and probably more athletic but not as strong and he does not have sabas's IQ (yet).
> right now, andrea can play center but only for a few stints, not because of strenght but because of his inside game. i think andrea's inside game is as of now the worst part of his game.
> OT: that was definetly a cheap shot, but dont go too hard on our kid: hes only 22 and after the game he went to apologize in tears. those things are a part of the game of soccer. and mastroeni did a pretty bad foul too... :biggrin:


the worst officiated soccer game i've ever seen, to me the red on the usa player was a makeup call, but like you say that's soccer, and i thought nba refs were bad.


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## slash_010 (Dec 20, 2003)

rainman said:


> the worst officiated soccer game i've ever seen, to me the red on the usa player was a makeup call, but like you say that's soccer, and i thought nba refs were bad.


Well, i personaly dont think so at all. There are rules on how to tackle a player. The first red card was an obvious Red because, you are not allowed to slide charging with TWO legs at an opponent, the attempt should have been with only one leg. The second was unfortunate because the player had a yellow earlier and with the foul he got earned him another yellow which resulted into a red, the thing about that is his position when he tackled. The US player was striding from behind, and if a player slides while bumbing shoulders to hold on to the ball, its allowed, however, the player came from behind to and took him down. That is not allowed in soccer and is considered dirty. Unlike the NFL, you are not allowed to take down a man from the back without competing for the ball.


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## ItalianStallion (Jun 8, 2005)

rainman said:


> the worst officiated soccer game i've ever seen, to me the red on the usa player was a makeup call, but like you say that's soccer, and i thought nba refs were bad.


trust me, that was not a bad game from the reff. all of the red cards were right on, the one on the italian being just a cheaper shot. there is a difference, however, between being violent and just competing hard. i dont think any of the teams were being violent. the us did a great job of holding us down, by the way.



to come back to the topic, yesterday benetton treviso (bargnani's team) lost game 3 of the finals 73-72 to climamio bologna in a close game and Bargnani had 15/9/2assists. what impresses me about this guy is that even when he does not shoot well (that was the case yesterday) he still manages to do something else that is useful for the team i.e. rebound.


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## Tersk (Apr 9, 2004)

What do you think are his weaknesses?

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<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/RlEIdn19tlU"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/RlEIdn19tlU" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/z14brkHotT0"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/z14brkHotT0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/c682_32HNuA"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/c682_32HNuA" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

Just some videos I found of Bargnani. I'm starting to like him more and more..


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## Nimreitz (May 13, 2003)

Yep, he is a legit top 3 pick in any draft and the #1 in this one. The clear #1.

He shoots a little funny, no?


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## MarioChalmers (Mar 26, 2004)

Is he the next Antoine Walker?


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## crazyfan (Dec 9, 2005)

gian said:


> Is he the next Antoine Walker?





Might well be. Similar skill set but i would think bargnani would shoot 3s less than walker. He's more like a Pau Gasol than walker or dirk


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## ItalianStallion (Jun 8, 2005)

Tersk said:


> What do you think are his weaknesses?
> QUOTE]
> 
> good question. as you can see by the videos, andrea has so many abilities that people imediately fall in love with his game and forget about the very few things that he does not do well.
> ...


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## ItalianStallion (Jun 8, 2005)

crazyfan said:


> Might well be. Similar skill set but i would think bargnani would shoot 3s less than walker. He's more like a Pau Gasol than walker or dirk


Andrea is in between pau and dirk. he resembles both of them but none of them is exactly like him. andrea is not the second dirk or the second pau, hes the first Bargnani.


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## aizn (Jun 19, 2005)

this kid has some serious body control to be able to do fadeaways like that while he's 7 feet. simple amazing.


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## MarioChalmers (Mar 26, 2004)

Then again, if Antoine Walker was 7 feet tall, the Heat would've swept the Mavs by now.


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## ItalianStallion (Jun 8, 2005)

yesterday benetton treviso (andreas team) won the italian championship but andrea did not play very well.
to try to convince the haters i figured to post andreas x48 min averages.
11.6/5.5/1.4blocks/1.2steals in 21.7 minutes is
25.6/12.2/3.1blocks/2.7 steals in 48 minutes.

not too shabby...


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## Kapitalistsvin (Mar 30, 2006)

Im a little concerned that he isnt fast enough to play SF, isnt strong enough to play PF. Wouldnt a rough defender like Artest or U-Haslem be able to hump and bump him completely out of the game? And why doesnt he rebound more? He does not seem to have the insanity that is required to be a defensive monster... so he could just be another Tim Thomas!?

Im not hating, just expressing concerns... absolutely understand the fascination.


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## ItalianStallion (Jun 8, 2005)

Kapitalistsvin said:


> Im a little concerned that he isnt fast enough to play SF, isnt strong enough to play PF. Wouldnt a rough defender like Artest or U-Haslem be able to hump and bump him completely out of the game? And why doesnt he rebound more? He does not seem to have the insanity that is required to be a defensive monster... so he could just be another Tim Thomas!?
> 
> Im not hating, just expressing concerns... absolutely understand the fascination.


andrea is already strong enough to play PF. heck, if he puts on 10 pounds (not too difficult) he could even play stints at center... andrea doesnt rebound much but 5.5 rebs in 21.7 minutes is, as i said, 12.2 per 48 which is not amazing but it is not too shabby either.
lastly, i dont know what to tell about the rough defender because he has yet to play against artest and haslem but i remember that two years ago he would just storm past chris bosh and score over him. hes gotten waaaaay better since then and i dont think bosh is that bad of a defender..


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## Nimreitz (May 13, 2003)

From what I've seen he's quick enough to play Small Forward offensively, but his lateral quickness probably isn't good enough to defend it.


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## Kapitalistsvin (Mar 30, 2006)

What would happen to him in Toronto? Villa is also a nice outside bomber. What if they want to stick him at center? Has he any shot at doing that for real?

The competition he is facing in Italy, is it tougher than college? It does worry a little that he cannot dominate outside the NBA, but is expected to be a tar in the NBA.

Does he have tenacity to keep improving if he is stuck behind Bosh for a year og two?

Would he want to and be able to help his team if he doesn't have the ball in his hands?

Does he like to have the ball in his hands? Or can he give it up when needed? Producing cold of the bench? How about all that?

Im as fascinated as everyone else... and Bargnani might just be the most unique talent in this draft, but will he make it to an all-star level?


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## ItalianStallion (Jun 8, 2005)

Kapitalistsvin said:


> What would happen to him in Toronto? Villa is also a nice outside bomber. What if they want to stick him at center? Has he any shot at doing that for real?
> 
> The competition he is facing in Italy, is it tougher than college? It does worry a little that he cannot dominate outside the NBA, but is expected to be a tar in the NBA.
> 
> ...



wow. good questions! competition in italy is way tougher than college. the italian league is third best in the world and andreas team also plays euroleague where his numbers are similar to those he has in the italian league. 
i believe he should not be constantly played at center and to tell you the truth i dont know what would happen if he had to.
he likes to have the ball in his hands but he follows his coaches calls most of the times. one thing im 100% sure is he can definetly produce right off the bench. his stroke is just too perfect.
as for the all-star level... time will tell us


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## Kapitalistsvin (Mar 30, 2006)

Is it your impression that defensive stops thrills him too? Or is it all about the scoring? Would he be there to take a crash in the lane as a help defender?


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## l2owen (Apr 24, 2006)

could all this bargani talk really be a smokescreen? lets say colangelo hypes up bargani to be the first. i mean coming into this draft no one really knew about bargani too well, no one certainly pegged him as the first. well some did but he wasnt a concensus. but colangelos been hyping up barganis value all along, and now with the new measurements and all the hype bargani looks like surefire first pick . if not the bulls look like they would most likely take him , as of now that is. but what if all along this has been a smokescreen to make a certain player , not named andrea, drop. lets say colangelos real plan is to trade down to third, but he really wants adam , but to make sure he doesnt get picked first or second bargani is hyped so much that he becomes a surefire first or second pick . along witha anyone else at the second ( la. roy. rudy w/e ) . there are smokescreens behind smokescreens and you never know what to expect. this is gonna be a fun draft.


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## Kapitalistsvin (Mar 30, 2006)

The more I see, read and hear about Bargnani, the more I believe he is the real deal. He might just be the most unique talent in this draft, and I truly believe Raptors are dead set on him.

But of course your scepticism is merited... but if you imagine Raptors applying some of Mavs defensive schemes, then SF:Villa, PF:CB and C:Bargnani might just work. Then a 'real' center can supply 15 minutes of bang, while the three mobile bigmen max out PF and 80% of the time at SF.

But are the three big all to nice? In other words... insider, is Bargnani able to mix it up down low?


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## Future (Jul 24, 2002)

Who's a better shooter? Bargnani or Morrison?


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## Kapitalistsvin (Mar 30, 2006)

So what are we to expect if Charlie Villanueva is traded from Toronto and Bargnani will share the frontcourt with Bosh?

Would this gues match your? Stats for Bargnani in his first 4 years in Toronto:

Rookie:........14 ppg, 5.0 rpg,..1.5 ast,..0.5 stl,.1.0 blk in 28 min per game
Sophomore:..18 ppg, 6.0 rpg,..2.0 ast,..0.6 stl,.1.2 blk in 32 min per game
3rd year:.....20 ppg, 6.5 rpg,..2.0 ast,..0.6 stl,..1.5 blk in 35 min per game
4th year:.....22 ppg, 7.2 rpg,..2.2 ast,..0.6 stl,..1.7 blk in 36 min per game


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## Dream Hakeem (Apr 20, 2006)

He looks like Peja with a bigger repertoire of moves


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

Kapitalistsvin said:


> So what are we to expect if Charlie Villanueva is traded from Toronto and Bargnani will share the frontcourt with Bosh?
> 
> Would this gues match your? Stats for Bargnani in his first 4 years in Toronto:
> 
> ...


A little too generous with those stats, IMO. 

Why would we get rid of Charlie to make room for Bargnani? There both the same type of players with the same type of potential, except Charlie is proven at the NBA level. It would be either keep both, or draft someone else.


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## rebelsun (Nov 25, 2003)

Kapitalistsvin said:


> So what are we to expect if Charlie Villanueva is traded from Toronto and Bargnani will share the frontcourt with Bosh?
> 
> Would this gues match your? Stats for Bargnani in his first 4 years in Toronto:
> 
> ...


I think the stats are a little generous for the first two years. I don't think it would be absurd to see him hit 20ppg by his 3rd year, though.


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

Dream Hakeem said:


> He looks like Peja with a bigger repertoire of moves


he's got about 3 inches on peja has a better first step and can block shots, besides that i see the similarities.


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## Kapitalistsvin (Mar 30, 2006)

On the stats... what about his passing, rebounding, steals and blocks in the nba? How would he look? Beeing a good shotblocker in Europe might not transfer to the freakishly athletic NBA!?


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