# Bosh and Bargnani tonight (feud?)



## firstrounder (Oct 31, 2004)

I was at the game tonight, and Bosh seemed to really be giving it to Bargs. Not that Bargs didnt deserve it - he played horrible D.

But there were 2 instances I saw. Once, after Bargnani fouled a Hawk as he made the bucket for an and-1, Bosh snapped and yelled in frustration at Bargs. It looked like he was lecturing Bargs that if hes gonna foul, foul hard so he doesnt make the bucket.

But then, a few minutes later in the game, Bargs appeared to be playing more bad defense, and the Hawks made a big bucket and Mitchell called a timeout. Bosh went running towards the Raptors bench, and was yelling/screaming at Mitchell. It looked like he was yelling at Mitchell about how badly Bargs was playing. Mitchell walked away to huddle with the coaches while Bosh cooled off. Bargs hit the bench after that and didnt play again.

It appeared to me that Bosh was expressing to Mitchell some frustration at being on the court at the same time as Bargs. I was shocked that he would freak out at Sam like that though.

Tonight, Bargs played like crap.

TJ played like crap.

Oh, if we didnt trade CV, and instead traded our #1 pick down...if we could have got say, another lottery pick + a mid 1st round pick for our #1 and #2, for example...we would still have CV, could run with Calderon at the PG position, and could have M. Williams as our backup PG, and the other lottery pick could have been Gay or something.

I know its early but it appears that Bosh doesn't like playing with Bargs...plus TJ's been crap, so I'm having regrets.


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## BeautifulStruggle (Jun 30, 2006)

I think Bosh is forgetting that he was a rookie at one point too. Furthermore Bargs strikes me as a project, hopefully I'm wrong.


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## jibe (Nov 11, 2006)

Chris Bosh	$4,235,220	

Andrea Bargnani	$4,501,200


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## kirk_2003 (Jun 23, 2003)

pay discrepency is a killer.


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

Bosh and Mo are the leaders of the team your suppost to jump on your teamates when they are doing poor on the court anybody remember Mo jumping on Jose last year?


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

Nothing wrong with Bosh trying to fire up Bargs defensively by getting on him a bit. But whining to the coach about him is WEAK and I hope that didn't happen.

Bosh has been a horrible defender in the nba until this season. He seems to have really picked up his intensity and is blocking more shots and rebounding better than ever. Give Bargs some time to adjust too.

Bargs footwork is actually pretty good, but he lowers his arms too much and makes it an easy call for the refs. If he was vertical both those fouls may not have been called. Sam had to take him out because the Hawks were going right at him.


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## jibe (Nov 11, 2006)

barnani another hoffa?


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## mysteral (Jul 20, 2004)

jibe said:


> barnani another hoffa?


No way !!!


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## anniebananerz (Jan 8, 2006)

Although it's good for Bosh to try to fire up his teammates, I think he seems to be forgetting that a few years ago, he was a rookie too and sometimes when you're a rook, you tend to have calls going against you that wouldn't be called if you weren't a rookie. But IMO, he shouldnt be snapping and blowing up at Bargs. Just pull him off to one side, explain what he should be doing, and see what happens from there. And if he's yelling and complaining about his teammate to his coaches, that's not being a good leader at all. Leave the coaching and the personnel decisions to the coaching staff, and just go out there and try to make it work. If Bosh is going to be a leader, he can't just single out one player for playing bad. There were other Raptor players last night who weren't doing such a great job either.


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

i love the fact that he's getting in players faces.

but the funny thing is.. bosh is a horrid defender. he should improve before he criticizes teammates on it.


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## Dee-Zy (Jan 12, 2006)

It seems to be a pattern in the raps to yell at Gnani, maybe they know something we don't? Maybe that's the way we know to motivate him?


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## Pain5155 (May 28, 2006)

you cant blame bosh for expecting bargnani to at least play decent, after all, he was the #1 pick in the 2006 NBA DRAFT.


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## charlz (Jun 9, 2003)

Someone needs to get in the face of the not-so-great-garbo horrid give-away terrible shot select. Brutal brutal play I never thought he would play this bad for this long.


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## DWADE4 (Aug 18, 2006)

jibe said:


> barnani another hoffa?



barnani another hoffa? I dont think so. 

Barnani another Nikoloz Tskitishvili? Most probably.

Those Dirk and Pau compairsons were stupid. When those two game in the league they didnt look confused, and lost on the court.


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## Dee-Zy (Jan 12, 2006)

DWADE4 said:


> barnani another hoffa? I dont think so.
> 
> Barnani another Nikoloz Tskitishvili? Most probably.
> 
> Those Dirk and Pau compairsons were stupid. When those two game in the league they didnt look confused, and lost on the court.


 
We should have this conversation again in march


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## Yao Mania (Aug 4, 2003)

DWADE4 said:


> barnani another hoffa? I dont think so.
> 
> Barnani another Nikoloz Tskitishvili? Most probably.
> 
> Those Dirk and Pau compairsons were stupid. When those two game in the league they didnt look confused, and lost on the court.


I'd more worry about Bargnani being another Darko in this case, being ignored and looked down upon by his own team until he gets traded. I can't believe how many people are writing Bargs off already.


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

DWADE4 said:


> barnani another hoffa? I dont think so.
> 
> Barnani another Nikoloz Tskitishvili? Most probably.
> 
> Those Dirk and Pau compairsons were stupid. When those two game in the league they didnt look confused, and lost on the court.


do you remember dirk in his rookie season?

oh, okay. thought so.


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## TRON (Feb 29, 2004)

This is Bosh's team and it's nice to see our franchise player actually care about the play of other team mates, as long as it's constructive critisicm and it's in the best interest of improving Bargnani as a player.

I remember our last franchise player, and he probably wouldn't have been to bothered over the defensive lapses of other teammates.

Bargnani will be fine in time, but this year will be all about adjusting to the NBA game. He's gonna struggle on the defensive end, and will pick up many stupid fouls for sure, I just want to see some improvement by the end of the year.


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## jibe (Nov 11, 2006)

barg was gonna be a starter after the draft an now he is a project. a nomber 1 pick is not supposd to be a project. if he dont step up on this road trip bench him and let him learn in practise. an garbo had better pick up his play or he is benched too. these two bums had better produce or else colenglo an gherardi are gonna look stupid.


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

They seemed to be getting along fine tonight when they played together.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

vigilante said:


> do you remember dirk in his rookie season?
> 
> oh, okay. thought so.


Better yet had he ever heard of him during his rookie season. He was just a nobody rookie on a crappy team, that had been traded for Robert Traylor.

Dallas was not even on TV when Dirk was a rookie. I'm calling you out on that comment, and you can't defend it because:
a) you never saw Dirk as a rookie
b) while I never really saw him either the stories / writeups about him were brutal. He was lost.


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## Kahlon66 (Jun 17, 2005)

Dirk was not a #1 pick as was Bargnani. There's a big difference in that. Bargnani as a number 1 overall pick should be much more NBA ready than Dirk was when he came in as a rookie.


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

I think that logic is flawed. It presumes that the #1 overall pick HAS to be used on the best player TODAY with no regard to future value and ability. 

If a team was able to draft 15 year old Lebron James but be forced to wait a couple of years for him to play in the league would that be a bad #1 pick? The Spurs knew they had to wait for David Robinson to fulfill his Navy commitments.

Every team gets 1 first round pick. In a sense it doesnt matter what number your pick is. You get the best player for the LT success of your franchise.


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## SickGame (Jan 23, 2006)

Kahlon66 said:


> Dirk was not a #1 pick as was Bargnani. There's a big difference in that. Bargnani as a number 1 overall pick should be much more NBA ready than Dirk was when he came in as a rookie.


A) Dirk's draft class was much better than Bargnani's
B) The European explosion/expansion wasn't at full effect like it is today, therefore drafting a European player back then was much more obscure and riskier, therefore harder to make him a higher pick than he was.

Dirk was BRUTAL in his first year. Anyone who though that Bargnani was going to be an effective starter in his first year had to be out of their mind. It wasn't like he was lighting up the Italian League when he was abroad. The kid is an obvious project and always was going to be.
And I'm not sure why everyone is panicking. Look at this year's draft, it isn't like the rookies are lighting up either. Morrison and Roy are the only ones averaging over 10 points (11.8 and 11.6 respectively) and no one is having a major impact on their teams except for Roy (whom we all knew was the most NBA ready player in the draft, yet the one that had the least potential out of the lottery picks).
On top of this, all these players are getting major minutes (18-25 min) either because of team injuries or the lack of depth on the team. Unfortunately for Barganani, not only are the Raptors deep and there are no injuries, he has to adjust to the game meaning that he picks up quick fouls that he's not used to.
I really don't understand why everyone is jumping the gun after 6 games. Let's see how he does after he gets 3-4 games of major burn.


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## firstrounder (Oct 31, 2004)

For those that just saw that, theres your televised evidence. Bosh is laying into Bargnani in the Golden State game.

Thats exactly what I saw happen at the game vs Atlanta.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

^ Leadership?


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## firstrounder (Oct 31, 2004)

To be honest, I dont know what to think.

Yes, I want Bosh to show leadership, but I think he might be overdoing it there. 

Thats to the point of embarassment to Bargnani.

I dont see Bosh freaking at TJ everytime he throws a ball away, or at anyone else.

Our troubles can hardly be blamed on Bargs.

Bargs has been crap, he deserves to be yelled at by Bosh, but I'd like to see Bosh take him aside instead of showing him up.

Perhaps that talk should take place in the locker room?


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

^ Bargs has been coddled his pro career so far. Maybe hugging him isn't going to get it done.

Personally I'm thrilled that Bosh is doing this. This is the vocal leadership everyone has been waiting on. Bosh is refusing to lose, he cares, this is passion.

Feud? Pfft. That's crap.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

Just showed a clip of Bosh patting Bargs on the backside and putting his head on his shoulder a little while after calling him out.

That's tough love, baby.

Bosh is my hero.


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## adhir1 (Dec 28, 2004)

i hope u saw the exeunt into the commercial where Bosh went to Bargs and showed him some love firstrounder...Bosh is the leader of this team..this is HIS team...he is not the type of player to dig into a player and embarass him...it was of a "comeon dre.....u need to get on those, dont let him beat you" type things rather then, "wtf is wrong with u euro trash"


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## NeoSamurai (Jan 16, 2003)

its good to see Bosh step up and get into Andrea...my concern with Andrea isnt him being ostricized by his teammates but rather the quality of coaching that he'll get...they need a big mentor to help him learn some defense full time on the staff like what LA is doing with Bynum having Kareem help him out everyday...at least Dirk had Nelly and his good staff with guys like Del Harris to help him out...our staff isnt as experienced nor as good....


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

firstrounder said:


> For those that just saw that, theres your televised evidence. Bosh is laying into Bargnani in the Golden State game.
> 
> Thats exactly what I saw happen at the game vs Atlanta.


I saw in the 3rd where Bargs committed a stupid foul and Chris ran up to him and snapped he was pissed that was no leadership on Chris part that was frustration


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## Gilgamesh (Dec 23, 2005)

SickGame said:


> A) Dirk's draft class was much better than Bargnani's
> B) The European explosion/expansion wasn't at full effect like it is today, therefore drafting a European player back then was much more obscure and riskier, therefore harder to make him a higher pick than he was.
> 
> Dirk was BRUTAL in his first year. Anyone who though that Bargnani was going to be an effective starter in his first year had to be out of their mind. It wasn't like he was lighting up the Italian League when he was abroad. The kid is an obvious project and always was going to be.
> ...


Bargs is definitely a project. I said that before he got drafted when Barg fanboys were everywhere comparing him to Sabonis which was ridiculous. 

Anyways, it's too early to call Bargs a bust. Way to early. Give him two years. Of course every fan is always scared of the supposed Euro bust curse especially with what happened to Darko and Skita but we have to keep optimistic. Nobody thought Dirk would become the player he is now after the rookie year he had but comparing Bargs to Dirk is a tall measuring stick. Dirk is an anomaly just like Lebron is an anomaly for HS players. People forget that Dirk finished his rookie season very strong. The guy who said March is right. Let's see how is doing by then because that will probably give us a better projection for how he will do in his 2nd year. 

As for this feud. I don't get it. We got all over Carter for his lack of leadership and passion now we are scared that Bosh is showing some? Whining to the coach ust shows that Bosh is still young and still needs to mature but getting in the face of Bargs is something I expect from a leader. Of course that tactic might backfire and we obviously don't want a MJ/Kwame situation because we saw how that turned out. But that situation went overboard off the court and all the way into the media. When that happens then I would be really worried. The Raps are Bosh's team and will be his for a long time. This year's draft class was weak. Taking a risk on a player whose value is all about his potential was a risky pick but it's better to take a risky pick in a weak draft class than in a strong draft class.


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## MagnusPinus (Aug 27, 2003)

Bosh has only to shut up.. Defensively he is no better than Mago..He has gained credit offensively so he can make the boss.. If MAgo had the minutes of Bosh and the confidence too he could score a lot..Defensively he is no bad at all..I'd say he is ahead Bosh..u commits so many stupid mistakes.


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## MagnusPinus (Aug 27, 2003)

Bosh has only to shut up.. Defensively he is no better than Mago..He has gained credit offensively so he can make the boss.. If MAgo had the minutes of Bosh and the confidence too he could score a lot..Defensively he is no bad at all..I'd say he is ahead Bosh..who commits so many stupid mistakes.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

Mr_B said:


> I saw in the 3rd where Bargs committed a stupid foul and Chris ran up to him and snapped he was pissed that was no leadership on Chris part that was frustration


Pretty silly thing to say.

Of course Bosh was frustrated. Why else would he say anything?


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

MagnusPinus said:


> Bosh has only to shut up.. Defensively he is no better than Mago..He has gained credit offensively so he can make the boss.. If MAgo had the minutes of Bosh and the confidence too he could score a lot..Defensively he is no bad at all..I'd say he is ahead Bosh..who commits so many stupid mistakes.


Little biased, maybe?

Bosh is an All-Star, in case you hadn't noticed. He's also the team captain. It's his job to make sure his teammates are putting in the effort.

Bargnani let Biedrins go over him literally four times in a row. If he's "ahead of Bosh" he wasn't showing it.


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

Yeah, I don't think you can say Bargs is ahead of Bosh defensively right now. Maybe he is ahead of the rookie Chris Bosh. Bosh has been a horrible defender up until this summer when he got more serious about D with the Olympic team. Bosh has definitely stepped up his play on that end this year.

I dont' mind Bosh calling out poor play by his teammates as long as he is performing at a high level. His turnovers were almost as bad as Barg's defensive lapses.

At least Bosh went back to Bargs after the next timeout and encouraged the rook again, letting him know that he needs the kid and just wants him to improve. That was a strong leadership move.


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## The Mad Viking (Jun 12, 2003)

DWADE4 said:


> barnani another hoffa? I dont think so.
> 
> Barnani another Nikoloz Tskitishvili? Most probably.
> 
> Those Dirk and Pau compairsons were stupid. When those two game in the league they didnt look confused, and lost on the court.


Revisionist history. Dirk played worse his entire rookie season than Bargnani has so far...

If Bargnani was the only post option on a terrible team, he would average 20 and 9 for the season as a rookie. You can see that if you watch. He can fill it up. Pau's situation was entirely different than Bargnani's.


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## The Mad Viking (Jun 12, 2003)

Lookit, Bargnani is going to be great, and I can't believe people can't see it.

Yes he has played badly in stretches. He is not getting any consistent burn in the rotation, and he apparently is not allowed to make rookie mistakes without being yelled at.

Despite all this, if you take his 72 minutes and project it into say, two games at starters minutes, he would be averaging 16.5ppg 7.5 rpg and 1.5 bpg. He has already surpassed the point of any comparisons to Hoffa or Skita, thank you very much.

When he gets more experience under his belt, and a more consistent spot in the rotation, he will be much more productive.

Yelling at someone on the court almost never works. If they aren't trying, maybe. But if they know the made a mistake, it doesn't help. And if they don't know what mistake they made, it doesn't help.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

MagnusPinus said:


> Bosh has only to shut up.. Defensively he is no better than Mago..He has gained credit offensively so he can make the boss.. If MAgo had the minutes of Bosh and the confidence too he could score a lot..Defensively he is no bad at all..I'd say he is ahead Bosh..who commits so many stupid mistakes.


Take off the red, white and green goggles.


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## Victor Page (Nov 1, 2006)

Dirk STILL looks lost defensively, I can't imagine what he looked like as a rookie.

Anyway, Bargnani has shown that he can put the ball in the hoop. He's only 19 or 20 so he's bound to improve and get stronger. He would have to be chronically lazy not to do so.

I don't see any other rookies lighting it up this year - this buys Margo some time to get his game
together. I'm going to call him Margo until his defense improves - nevertheless, I think he'll come around.


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## mysteral (Jul 20, 2004)

The Mad Viking said:


> If Bargnani was the only post option on a terrible team, he would average 20 and 9 for the season as a rookie.


The Raptors are not a terrible team right now ??? :laugh:


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## Flush (Jul 25, 2005)

Overall the Toronto raptors fan base has been mislead with regard to rookies and how they perform. The fans that knew very little about NBA basketball before the raptors haven't been educated properly about the normal development of a rookie in the NBA.

If you look at the franchise draft history players have either succeeded or failed, very few have developed into excellent players. Mcgrady is the only exception that I can think of. There have been 2 rookie of the year awards, Bosh and Charlie who exceeded early expectations, Mopete who was a well developed player. Camby who's still trying to match his rookie scoring numbers. Then there has been the Bradley, Radojevic, and Hoffa picks.

Raptor fans have learned to expect that players who don't perform well in their first season ultimately fail. Who has this franchise watched as they developed from a scrub into a star?

Too early relax and fire sam.


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## ballocks (May 15, 2003)

chris looks like andrea's *much* older brother. depending on how you look at it, that could be somewhat heartwarming or a little disconcerting. chris bosh is 22 and andrea bargnani is 21. what's more, andrea's coming from the euroranks, purportedly more _professional_ than the ncaa. we've heard it many times, "a european rookie is a 5 year veteran according to nba standards." i guess the combo we've got on this team is very strange in relation to the accepted norm.

peace


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## baldeo61 (Nov 15, 2006)

:banana: tu ancora non hai visto cosa può fare il mago darko è la solita scusa di voi yankee che ancora non vi và giù che possa esister un giocatore forte come il mago che non è americano.se qualcvuno lo facesse giocare almeno 20 minuti ...poi ne riparliamo altro che darko..tua sorella 



Yao Mania said:


> I'd more worry about Bargnani being another Darko in this case, being ignored and looked down upon by his own team until he gets traded. I can't believe how many people are writing Bargs off already.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

baldeo61 said:


> :banana: tu ancora non hai visto cosa può fare il mago darko è la solita scusa di voi yankee che ancora non vi và giù che possa esister un giocatore forte come il mago che non è americano.se qualcvuno lo facesse giocare almeno 20 minuti ...poi ne riparliamo altro che darko..tua sorella





baldeo61? said:


> you have still not seen what you can make the wizard darko you are the usual excuse of Yankee you who still not và you down that a player can exist fort like the wizard who is not American.if qualcvuno it made it to play 20 minuteren at least…then of it riparliamo other that darko.your sister


I think he burned you, Yao.


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

mysteral said:


> The Raptors are not a terrible team right now ??? :laugh:


 Good enough that he doesn't need to be logging heavy minutes. A terrible team doesn't have a Chris Bosh.


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## Yao Mania (Aug 4, 2003)

speedythief said:


> I think he burned you, Yao.


? Sorry even after the translation I don't really get what he's trying to say 

First of all, I think some of you misintepreted my comparison using Darko - I'm not saying he's like Darko skill-wise, but I'm saying that he's potentially being mistreated like Darko back in Detroit, when he was rotting away in the bench and getting no meaningful playing time. 

Second of all, I'm very fond of Bargnani and Italians in general (I work for an Italian company), and I realize Italians have very poor English, so I don't blame him for this misintepretation. People who pay attention to my post around here should know I support Bargs about as much as anyone else.

Lastly, I am very insulted at being called a Yankee :curse:


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## Dee-Zy (Jan 12, 2006)

Flush said:


> Overall the Toronto raptors fan base has been mislead with regard to rookies and how they perform. The fans that knew very little about NBA basketball before the raptors haven't been educated properly about the normal development of a rookie in the NBA.
> 
> If you look at the franchise draft history players have either succeeded or failed, very few have developed into excellent players. Mcgrady is the only exception that I can think of. There have been 2 rookie of the year awards, Bosh and Charlie who exceeded early expectations, Mopete who was a well developed player. Camby who's still trying to match his rookie scoring numbers. Then there has been the Bradley, Radojevic, and Hoffa picks.
> 
> ...


 
CV
Bosh
T-Mac
VC
Camby
Damon Stoudamire


6 stars in 10 years (Not counting this one)
plus honorable mention to Mo Pete and Jonathan Bender (You can't deny he had skills, poor kid was just plagued with injuries)


those are ****ing solid draft man, I think YOU don't know anything about Raptors Drafts.


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## Flush (Jul 25, 2005)

Dee-Zy said:


> CV
> Bosh
> T-Mac
> VC
> ...


Was my post that unclear? because you didn't even come close to understanding it. 

All I was saying is that raptor fans haven't watched players develop the way many rookies do. Most of our rookies have come in and made an immediate impact. Based on that history, players that don't do well off the bat are assumed to be a bust.


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## jibe (Nov 11, 2006)

in the last game with the warriors this is wat i red in slamsports.


Even when he wasn't putting up big numbers, Bosh was taking charge. Rookie centre Andrea Bargnani, after a good first quarter, was absolutely horrible on the boards in the third quarter and Bosh got in his face and screamed his head off at the overmatched Italian. 


if bosh is gonna scream at people he will get a fist in the face soon. the guy is not that smart an it looks like he is goin off the deep end on bargs case. is bosh a head case now?


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## adhir1 (Dec 28, 2004)

jibe said:


> in the last game with the warriors this is wat i red in slamsports.
> 
> 
> Even when he wasn't putting up big numbers, Bosh was taking charge. Rookie centre Andrea Bargnani, after a good first quarter, was absolutely horrible on the boards in the third quarter and Bosh got in his face and screamed his head off at the overmatched Italian.
> ...



wow...talk about terrible recollection of story telling....did that article tell you that in the subsquent time out Bosh went right up to Bargnani and patted him on the head, smacked his *** and lay his head on Bargnani's shoulders???? Prolly not, because they are digging, digging for dirt. and truthfully Bosh had every right, he was workign his tail off trying to get boards and bargs wasnt doing anything, and letting Biedrins out rebound him. Bosh is faaaaaaaaaaaaar from a headcase...he is the leader of thsi team...i think Raptors fans have never seen leadership and it may be a foreign concept to us....


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## Rhubarb (Mar 19, 2005)

Storm in a teacup.


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## CrookedJ (May 8, 2003)

Flush said:


> Was my post that unclear? because you didn't even come close to understanding it.
> 
> All I was saying is that raptor fans haven't watched players develop the way many rookies do. Most of our rookies have come in and made an immediate impact. Based on that history, players that don't do well off the bat are assumed to be a bust.


I follow you exactly - almost all the Raptors draft picks have been either:

an impact player in the first season ( Bosh, VC, CV, Mo, Damon, Marcus Camby)

OR

total NBA bust ( Hoffa, Bradley, Chris Jefferies, Radeojvic)

The only exceptions are:
McGrady - showed lots of promise but took a few seasons to develop into a contributor
Graham - showed a little promise, and still could become a contributor or a bust

So we have this mindset that if a player isn't great right away he never will be, and therefore there is no patience. Joey can hardly be termed a bust 7 games into his second season, much less Barg's 7 games into his career.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

Flush said:


> All I was saying is that raptor fans haven't watched players develop the way many rookies do. Most of our rookies have come in and made an immediate impact. Based on that history, players that don't do well off the bat are assumed to be a bust.


This is one of the more interesting points brought up on the board in a long while.

To some degree you almost can't blame Raptors fans for making quick judgments on young players. I think with Bosh we saw a player develop from a good rookie into an All-Star, but his development was rapid and he was a solid rookie.

I guess a good question would be is Toronto and has Toronto historically been a good environment to grow a player in?


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## ballocks (May 15, 2003)

i'm not sure 'feud' would be the right word here. we have one guy yelling into the other guy's ear. the other guy looks almost used to it. instead of 'feud', i think we could simplify this situation by saying that chris bosh is simply angry at andrea bargnani.

but i don't think many people really care. i think we probably want some controversy, but most of us go to bed at night even _glad_ that chris is finally displaying some vocal leadership. i don't think it bothered anyone to see chris explode the other night- whether it was on andrea or anyone else.

peace


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## CrookedJ (May 8, 2003)

speedythief said:


> This is one of the more interesting points brought up on the board in a long while.
> 
> To some degree you almost can't blame Raptors fans for making quick judgments on young players. I think with Bosh we saw a player develop from a good rookie into an All-Star, but his development was rapid and he was a solid rookie.
> 
> I guess a good question would be is Toronto and has Toronto historically been a good environment to grow a player in?


There seems to be very little patience in this NBA market for players that aren't good right away, or for anybody for that matter.

This seems to be the polar opposite of MLSE's 'other' team, in which "promising" young players such as Coliacovo, Ponikarovsky ( sp?) etc are given season after season to show some results on the promise. Maybe its just the impatience of the Raps' fans / media in contrast to the resignation that Leaf's fans (should!!) have that their team isn't a winner. Touche!

We have in the past blamed the local media for being too hard on players/ the team. In this case I think its the fans that are being unrealistic, not the media. I think Doug Smith's Quarter by Quarter article was quite fair on Bargnani. He praised his first half play and criticized his second half rebounding. His game summary article doesn't mention Bargnani. Even Feshuk's article today focus's more on Bargnani's need for tutoring from someone besides Bosh ( perhaps a new assistant coach for big man development) than on criticism.

Us fans seem to be a little bi-polar regarding this team, and its players. A quick suvery of this site and Real Gm shows people suggesting that Mitchell be fired, Mo Pete be traded, Bargnani be traded, TJ is a bust, and this thread suggesting that Bosh and Bargnani have a feud. This is all knee jerk ****. I agree that Sam hasn't been good, but unless there is a better coach lined up do you change for the sake of it? 

Is it any wonder we don't support the development of young players if Mo Pete has gone from one of our leaders to a player that its time to give up on, in the course of 7 games where he has averaged over 13 points? 

This turned into a bit of a rant . . .


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## DWADE4 (Aug 18, 2006)

I understand Chris Bosh being frustrated. BUT. He shouldnt be going after Andrea like the way the media is putting it. 
Andrea is a rookie and will have mistakes in his 1st year, also he played in Europe. The way they play basketball is slightly different then the American style. 
It will take time for him to adjust. I remember when Bosh was a rookie he mad manyyyyyyyyyyy mistakes on the defensive end. I have the games recorded so i'm not just talking trash here, Bosh is our leader now and needs to act like 1.


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## adhir1 (Dec 28, 2004)

DWADE4 said:


> I understand Chris Bosh being frustrated. BUT. H*e shouldnt be going after Andrea like the way the media is putting it. *
> Andrea is a rookie and will have mistakes in his 1st year, also he played in Europe. The way they play basketball is slightly different then the American style.
> It will take time for him to adjust. I remember when Bosh was a rookie he mad manyyyyyyyyyyy mistakes on the defensive end. I have the games recorded so i'm not just talking trash here, Bosh is our leader now and needs to act like 1.


thats cuz "the media" isnt reporting it right....Chris yelled at Andrea, he wasnt insulting him at all. Because in the subsquent timeout, Chris went RIGHT to andrea despite other teamates trying to congradulate him, and patted him on the back of the head, and rested his own head on Bargnani's shoulder....it was Chris being a good older brother, getting angry and also showing his kid brother some love.


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## Knick Killer (Jul 16, 2006)

who else was there to pick? I hate when people say they shouldve picked Morrison...first of all morrison leaves defending up to everyone else. there was no real good talent. it was a horrible draft. PJ Tucker will end up being better than Andrea "Rafael Arajuo Jr." Bargnani guaranteed. btw... darrick martin..goodbye


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## petrolio (Nov 18, 2006)

Pain5155 said:


> you cant blame bosh for expecting bargnani to at least play decent, after all, he was the #1 pick in the 2006 NBA DRAFT.


first of all I want to say I ve been following il mago in the last 3 years. he has worked hard and have become an important player in treviso(italian league champs) and been voted the best young player in euroleague(taugh league).I also remember other rookies that had a soft impact in the league(nowitzki).belive me the defensive system in europe is completely different(bosh should know it)where was CB in important games at the world championship last summer?(yelling and screaming from the bench...that s where).so all I want to say is that bargnani was def one of the most talented player at the last draft...so....give him the time to understand the new way of playing...and more than all let him play mke mistakes without pressure.....


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## petrolio (Nov 18, 2006)

DWADE4 said:


> barnani another hoffa? I dont think so.
> 
> Barnani another Nikoloz Tskitishvili? Most probably.
> 
> Those Dirk and Pau compairsons were stupid. When those two game in the league they didnt look confused, and lost on the court.


in italy we say"TIME IS GENTLMAN".. so..just give bargnani the time....I know the guy real well..he just need the coach belive in him..the rest will come!!!!!
PS dirk and pau were not as good as the mago is now....belive or not but people forgets....


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## baldeo61 (Nov 15, 2006)

maibe Rafael Arajuo Jr.its your brother? or you speack like a Rafael Arajuo Jr maybe you want became like Rafael Arajuo Jr.? good luck ....but don't snappish like a old man :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:


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## baldeo61 (Nov 15, 2006)

maibe Rafael Arajuo Jr.its your brother? or you speack like a Rafael Arajuo Jr maybe you want became like Rafael Arajuo Jr.? good luck ....but don't snappish like a old man


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## PickleJ74 (May 24, 2006)

You people baffle me. How can you bail on Bargs so quickly? And as for Dirk, he was HORRIBLE his first year. He was booed out of the building (along with Nash) during his first year. Below are his stats for his first campaign. And these stats fail illustrate his ineptness on defense.

98-99	Dal	20.4 min .405 FG% .206 3PT% 8.2 Pts 1.0 Ast 3.5 Reb

What made Dirk great, is his skill set and psychological make up, though he had a big assist on Nash on the former and an absolutely HUGE assist from Nash on the latter.

Gasol was light years better that Nowitski his first year. But, then again, Gasol logged way more minutes and was focal point of a bad team. And people still ragged on him for years. He was subject to insults to his character (e.g. he wasn't tough enough; not good enough defensively) and trade rumors for every year for his first four years in the league (even this year, to some extent).

Bargs has a chance. The first few games do not make a career. So I recommend for you clowns to relax, kick back, and enjoy the progression his career takes. He has the skills and the what appears to be that arrogant streak that allows someone to be great (at least, in the sporting world).

What worries me more is Bosh ability to grow into a leader. I believe he has the character, work ethnic, and intelligence to become a great leader (a Nash-like leader for his team and in the community). But the T-Raps empoyed such horrible role models for Bosh during his first few years (e.g. AD, VC, & Jalen). I hope that his strong character shines through. And I truly hope the whining, traitor-like approaches of past "leaders" have not led him astray.


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## shookem (Nov 1, 2005)

PickleJ74 said:


> What worries me more is Bosh ability to grow into a leader. I believe he has the character, work ethnic, and intelligence to become a great leader (a Nash-like leader for his team and in the community). But the T-Raps empoyed such horrible role models for Bosh during his first few years (e.g. AD, VC, & Jalen). I hope that his strong character shines through. And I truly hope the whining, traitor-like approaches of past "leaders" have not led him astray.


What has Bosh done this season to make you think he is a whiner and not a leader? Why would he adopt bad characteristics after seeing first hand that it gets you no where?


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