# We're now seeing how much Laker players and Phil care for Kobe



## LB26matrixns (May 6, 2004)

1. Espn News this morning.....Phil Jackson claims he's glad he got out of LA because he saw the team making several moves in what was then the near future to cater to Kobe Bryant.

2. Espn.com -- Gary Payton wants a buyout the second Shaq is traded. Sample the following:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=stein_marc&id=1838214

"Without O'Neal, sources added, Payton has lost the teammate who lured him to Los Angeles."

"Although the root of Payton's discontent in his first season as a Laker was Phil Jackson's triangle offense, there were also *questions from the start about how he would mesh offensively with Kobe Bryant*, because both Payton and Bryant like to dominate the ball."

3. ESPN News -- Derek Fisher is going on a visit to Seattle.

4. ESPN News -- Karl Malone and the Spurs visiting possibilities on Malone playing in San Antonio. 

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"So what LB...this stuff happens."

Yeah isn't it funny that we start hearing about this stuff right after the world becomes pretty sure that Shaq is being traded?

If Fisher and Slava and Gary and Karl are thinking about going....I wonder if Bryant will go.

I bet the Lakers end up with about what Chicago ended up with in 1998.

We're all seeing how much Lakers players and coaches like Bryant. Looks like the evidence points to very little as the answer.


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## IV (Jul 16, 2002)

GP came to LA to play with Shaq. That's why he's leaving and that doesn't have anything to do with Kobe.

It makes sense that Fisher and Malone explore other options because there is a chance Kuchak could screw things up to the point neither Kobe or Shaq are their next year.

And Phil always was a Shaq first guy. Doesn't mean he didn't like Kobe... means he feels the O should run through Shaq not Kobe.


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## JT (Mar 1, 2004)

*its the jordan quest!*

Payton knows he has no chance to win his coveted ring with the GM Kobe shooting 35 times a night.


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## LB26matrixns (May 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>IV</b>!
> GP came to LA to play with Shaq. That's why he's leaving and that doesn't have anything to do with Kobe.
> 
> It makes sense that Fisher and Malone explore other options because there is a chance Kuchak could screw things up to the point neither Kobe or Shaq are their next year.
> ...


The report on ESPN News was "he is glad he is gone because he saw a series of moves that catered to Kobe coming"....

You can spin that into "well yeah because he likes shaq"....but if it were merely that then there probably wouldn't be a need for comment. 

Come on......admit it.....even if nobody necessarily dislikes kobe, nobody really "likes" kobe.......he's selfish and won't win without O'neal. The other Laker players earned enough respect not to have to deal with that.


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## LB26matrixns (May 6, 2004)

*Re: its the jordan quest!*



> Originally posted by <b>sherako</b>!
> Payton knows he has no chance to win his coveted ring with the GM Kobe shooting 35 times a night.


Ladies and gentlemen we have a bingo!!!!


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## Pan Mengtu (Jun 18, 2004)

Hahah, even crappy Slava might walk? Wow.


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## Pay Ton (Apr 18, 2003)

As a big fan of Kobe Bryant (I'm not a Laker fan though, don't get those two confused!) he's gradually losing my respect. He just seems determined to have everything the way he wants and is STILL not showing if he's going to committ to L.A. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see Kobe leave L.A., but not if he's going to try and force them to make decisions to keep him, and then just say "Aw, **** it. I think I'm gonna go play over there." L.A. is throwing rose pedals at Kobe's feet (Coming To America style) and Kobe isn't even acknowledging it. And the incident in which Kobe asked if the Clippers would play more home games closer to his home is ridiculous. C'mon Kobe, there's such a thing as abuse of power. Lighten up.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

What you bolded has nothing at all to do with GP not liking Kobe. In fact, I have no idea why you put it in bold. 

It just says that people were questioning how GP and Kobe would mesh in the backcourt. GP likes Kobe, but the reason he came to LA was Shaquille O'Neal. He also got to be very good friends with Karl Malone. If his two best friends on the team are leaving, of course he'll want out as well. Fisher is probably a better fit with Kobe in the backcourt, anyway. GP is still a good player, but he and Kobe both like to handle the ball, while Fisher can knock down open jump shots. Getting paid at around the MLE and regaining his starting job should be enough to bring Fisher back to the Lakers.

GP won't be bought out, it will probably be the same situation as what happened with Shaq. The Lakers will take some names of teams that he'd play for and look into trade possibilities with those teams. The Lakers wouldn't want too much in return, just a decent big man.

One of the possible trades we were talking about in the Lakers Forum was GP for Juwan Howard.


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## LB26matrixns (May 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Pay Ton</b>!
> As a big fan of Kobe Bryant (I'm not a Laker fan though, don't get those two confused!) he's gradually losing my respect. He just seems determined to have everything the way he wants and is STILL not showing if he's going to committ to L.A. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see Kobe leave L.A., but not if he's going to try and force them to make decisions to keep him, and then just say "Aw, **** it. I think I'm gonna go play over there." L.A. is throwing rose pedals at Kobe's feet (Coming To America style) and Kobe isn't even acknowledging it. And the incident in which Kobe asked if the Clippers would play more home games closer to his home is ridiculous. C'mon Kobe, there's such a thing as abuse of power. Lighten up.


What do you think of the theory that Kobe said "hmmm, after a possible shaq trade, the Clippers will offer me a better supporting cast than what's left of the Lakers, so I'll go play for the Clippers" and then decided to force the trade anyway so that he wouldn't have to share the media spotlight in LA with Shaq, or risk having to play Shaq 4 times a year and being exposed?


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## LB26matrixns (May 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> What you bolded has nothing at all to do with GP not liking Kobe. In fact, I have no idea why you put it in bold.
> 
> It just says that people were questioning how GP and Kobe would mesh in the backcourt. GP likes Kobe, but the reason he came to LA was Shaquille O'Neal. He also got to be very good friends with Karl Malone. If his two best friends on the team are leaving, of course he'll want out as well. Fisher is probably a better fit with Kobe in the backcourt, anyway. GP is still a good player, but he and Kobe both like to handle the ball, while Fisher can knock down open jump shots. Getting paid at around the MLE and regaining his starting job should be enough to bring Fisher back to the Lakers.
> ...


A decent big man?? For Gary "I'm 37 years old and looked like crap in the playoffs" Payton. Do you realize what a premium an even competent big man is at in this league?? 

Also......I phrased the post to say "don't like"...as in Gary Payton, Karl Malone and Derek Fisher "don't like" Kobe....that means that that feeling of likeability to want to play with him even if Shaq leaves is gone. I never said "dislike"....which would imply that not only don't they actively "like" kobe, they also would not say hi to him if they saw him walking down a hallway. 

Don't mix up what I am saying.

Fisher is leaving too btw.....just to give you first notice on that one.


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## Pay Ton (Apr 18, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>LB26matrixns</b>!
> 
> 
> What do you think of the theory that Kobe said "hmmm, after a possible shaq trade, the Clippers will offer me a better supporting cast than what's left of the Lakers, so I'll go play for the Clippers" and then decided to force the trade anyway so that he wouldn't have to share the media spotlight in LA with Shaq, or risk having to play Shaq 4 times a year and being exposed?


It's possible that that could be what he's thinking. It would be in Kobe's advantage. But still, I truly hope he's not thinking that way. But I can only hope. Usually, I'll defend Kobe's cause. But in this scenario, I really can't, because I feel what he's doing isn't right. I'll just have to wait and see what happens.


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## IV (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>LB26matrixns</b>!
> 
> 
> The report on ESPN News was "he is glad he is gone because he saw a series of moves that catered to Kobe coming"....
> ...


I can admit this. Not everyone likes Kobe. I'm sure Fisher likes Kobe. I'm sure Malone likes Kobe. I'm sure Grant likes Kobe. And I'm sure they're not the only ones who like Kobe. Trust, they like his *** a ton when he's the guy winning games for them. I know that much 

I won't admit that he will not win without Shaq because that not a matter of admission, that's an opinion that can easily to silence.


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## sweet_constipation (Jul 3, 2004)

I thought this was already known.
There's always been a division between Kobe and whoever seems to be around him.

LOL, don't forget that even his wife is leaving him.............

:yes: 



Just a stupid off topic prediction, but I say two months into the season before Butler and Kobe get into it.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

I really don't see Kobe returning to this decimated team. Would be a bad decision on his part.


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## LB26matrixns (May 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>sweet_constipation</b>!
> I thought this was already known.
> There's always been a division between Kobe and whoever seems to be around him.
> 
> ...


The funny thing is Kobe wants his own team.....but do you honestly think NBA players are gonna follow this guy like he's Jordan or Shaq? Based on how little outward respect he garners now?


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

LB26matrixns, your complete lack of research on this subject matter is frightening. Let's see, where to begin...

1) Fisher said *during* the regular season that he was going to test the FA waters. Bringing up Fisher's current FA status is about as nonsensical as you can get. Not only that, but Mitch Kupchak said just this past *weekend* that he had a very positive conversation with Fisher about returning to the Lakers. 

2) Slava wants to be resigned. Or, Mitch will just trade him. Besides, Slava doesn't speak English well enough to even understand what Kobe says to him. :laugh:

3) What does Malone talking to the Spurs have to do with him not liking Kobe or Kobe's actions? Malone is talking to the Spurs because he wants to win a championship by possibly playing for them. Though, since Malone AND his agent have reiterated within the last two weeks that if Malone doesn't retire that he will be playing only for the Lakers, his talk with the Spurs was probably more academic than anything else. Bringing up Malone in this conversation about Kobe makes zero sense. 

4) It has been known for god knows how long that Phil and Kobe were at odds with each other, much more so than Shaq and Kobe were. It comes as no surprise that Phil or Phil groupies of his would say bad things about Kobe now. All this comes as no surprise to anyone who has followed the Lakers since 2000, except perhaps you. 



> I bet the Lakers end up with about what Chicago ended up with in 1998.


LMAO! The Bulls were beyond horrible and have been ever since their dynasty was blown up. In the worst case scenario, the Lakers have Odom, Grant, Butler, Walton, and Rush as a starting lineup, not including the money they have available to sign FA without Kobe on the team, (assuming the worst case scenario, where Kobe doesn’t sign with the Lakers). Then Cook and probably Slava too. Who has been the best player for the Bulls the last 6 years, Curry? :laugh:

This whole thread is almost as bad as your "Payton signed for the MLE", "The Lakers won't get Butler AND a pick", and "Dennis Rodman is a great perimeter defender" comments. Seriously, I suggest you just pile your poorly researched comments into one thread in the Lakers forum and stop wasting BBB.net's bandwidth with blatantly wrong information and the conclusions you draw from them.


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## Mack Ten (Jul 2, 2004)

Lets face it. Kobe is just not a well liked person, period. Shaq hates him, Shaq's family hates him. Phil hates him, Phil's family hates him. His teammates hate him, fans of other teams hate him. Celebrites hate him. his own damn parents hate him. He's easy to hate. He's nothing more than an arrogant, egonomical piece of **Edited: No Masked Cursing Please**. Nobody likes an fake wannabee Jordan. Nobody likes a Selfish Ballhog. Nobody likes a guy who thinks he's from the hood and tried to have a Rap career when we all know he's being raised in the suburbs all his life and basicially had everything handed to him on a silver spoon. Nobody likes a punk *** wimp like Kobe who got his *** beat by Chris Childs and Reggie Miller? :laugh: And finally, <strike>nobody likes a rapist.</strike>


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## LB26matrixns (May 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>EHL</b>!
> LB26matrixns, your complete lack of research on this subject matter is frightening. Let's see, where to begin...
> 
> 1) Fisher said *during* the regular season that he was going to test the FA waters. Bringing up Fisher's current FA status is about as nonsensical as you can get. Not only that, but Mitch Kupchak said just this past *weekend* that he had a very positive conversation with Fisher about returning to the Lakers.


Fisher won't be a Laker. I'm batting a high average aside from my Spurs prediction and this will be no different. Were Kobe a MJ or Shaq like figure, Derek Fisher would not be visiting Seattle. 



> 2) Slava wants to be resigned. Or, Mitch will just trade him. Besides, Slava doesn't speak English well enough to even understand what Kobe says to him. :laugh:


LOL this is funny. I'll always give credit where it's due.



> 3) What does Malone talking to the Spurs have to do with him not liking Kobe or Kobe's actions? Malone is talking to the Spurs because he wants to win a championship by possibly playing for them. Though, since Malone AND his agent have reiterated within the last two weeks that if Malone doesn't retire that he will be playing only for the Lakers, his talk with the Spurs was probably more academic than anything else. Bringing up Malone in this conversation about Kobe makes zero sense.


1. You confuse "don't like" with "dislike"

2. Again.....when combined with everyone else Malone is relevant. 



> 4) It has been known for god knows how long that Phil and Kobe were at odds with each other, much more so than Shaq and Kobe were. It comes as no surprise that Phil or Phil groupies of his would say bad things about Kobe now. All this comes as no surprise to anyone who has followed the Lakers since 2000, except perhaps you.


Did I write the article with surprise. You are hilarious. You say that "it's been known for god knows how long" like that meant it never happened. The more known it is that it happened the more relevant. AGAIN Phil not liking Kobe is irrelevant in and of itself......but when you combine it with everything else, and the fact that figures like Phil, Malone and Payton react in a complete opposite fashion to someone like MJ or Shaq....it becomes very relevant. 

Went back and read my initial post and I didn't see the part where I claimed to be breaking a full post of new news to the world.

New section of the EHL rulebook. "If something bad happens regarding Kobe, and EVERYBODY knows it, that means you can't talk about it. You can only talk about it if it is a secret that only you know about."




> LMAO! The Bulls were beyond horrible and have been ever since their dynasty was blown up. In the worst case scenario, the Lakers have Odom, Grant, Butler, Walton, and Rush as a starting lineup, not including the money they have available to sign FA without Kobe on the team, (assuming the worst case scenario, where Kobe doesn’t sign with the Lakers). Then Cook and probably Slava too. Who has been the best player for the Bulls the last 6 years, Curry? :laugh:
> 
> This whole thread is almost as bad as your "Payton signed for the MLE", "The Lakers won't get Butler AND a pick", and "Dennis Rodman is a great perimeter defender" comments. Seriously, I suggest you just pile your poorly researched comments into one thread in the Lakers forum and stop wasting BBB.net's bandwidth with blatantly wrong information and the conclusions you draw from them.


Again you predicted LA would get Butler and TWO picks. The only person who has been blatantly wrong (see bump material) is you LOL. 

When did I say that the Bulls have been good the last six years?? God knows Jerry Krause, who is no longer involved with the Bulls, made us very bad. With Krause gone I fail to see how we have any less chance at progressing than any other team full of young talent and future salary flexibility.


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## LB26matrixns (May 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Mack Ten</b>!
> Lets face it. Kobe is just not a well liked person, period. Shaq hates him, Shaq's family hates him. Phil hates him, Phil's family hates him. His teammates hate him, fans of other teams hate him. Celebrites hate him. his own damn parents hate him. He's easy to hate. He's nothing more than an arrogant, egonomical piece of sh!t. Nobody likes an fake wannabee Jordan. Nobody likes a Selfish Ballhog. Nobody likes a guy who thinks he's from the hood and tried to have a Rap career when we all know he's being raised in the suburbs all his life and basicially had everything handed to him on a silver spoon. Nobody likes a punk *** wimp like Kobe who got his *** beat by Chris Childs and Reggie Miller? :laugh: And finally, nobody likes a rapist.


Your posts are a little over the top on Kobe lol. But I have to admire the hatred burning inside of you for the rat-faced wonder.


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>LB26matrixns</b>!
> 
> 
> Fisher won't be a Laker. I'm batting a high average aside from my Spurs prediction and this will be no different. Were Kobe a MJ or Shaq like figure, Derek Fisher would not be visiting Seattle.


What? Fisher said during the regular season (when Shaq _was still a Laker_) that he would test the FA waters. So, again, your conclusion that Fisher would stay if Shaq did because of some dislike for Kobe makes little sense. 



> 1. You confuse "don't like" with "dislike"


Er, what? 



> 2. Again.....when combined with everyone else Malone is relevant.


Malone has said nothing but good things about Kobe since he joined the Lakers. I fail to see how anything he has said or done is relevant in this debate.



> Did I write the article with surprise. You are hilarious. You say that "it's been known for god knows how long" like that meant it never happened. The more known it is that it happened the more relevant. AGAIN Phil not liking Kobe is irrelevant in and of itself......but when you combine it with everything else, and the fact that figures like Phil, Malone and Payton react in a complete opposite fashion to someone like MJ or Shaq....it becomes very relevant.


Again, what? Phil and Kobe have been at odds with each other, it's nothing new, it happens with lots of players and coaches. This is basically the only piece of evidence you have that Kobe is somehow so incredibly disliked by his teammates and players around the league. Heck, just today Odom point blank said he was delighted to come and play with Kobe Bryant. 



> Went back and read my initial post and I didn't see the part where I claimed to be breaking a full post of new news to the world.


Did I claim you had to be doing that? No.



> Again you predicted LA would get Butler and TWO picks. The only person who has been blatantly wrong (see bump material) is you LOL.


I suggest you carefully reread the thread and show me exactly what you're talking about. Once you do, you will realize that I ended up being right. Just admit it and move on, please. 



> When did I say that the Bulls have been good the last six years??


I didn't say you said that. 



> God knows Jerry Krause, who is no longer involved with the Bulls, made us very bad. With Krause gone I fail to see how we have any less chance at progressing than any other team full of young talent and future salary flexibility.


Um, the difference is that the Lakers have a history of being able to attract FAs, and the Bulls don't. That, and the fact that the Lakers can retain a top 5 player, whereas the Bulls can retain.....a top 100 player.


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## LB26matrixns (May 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>EHL</b>!
> 
> 
> What? Fisher said during the regular season (when Shaq _was still a Laker_) that he would test the FA waters. So, again, your conclusion that Fisher would stay if Shaq did because of some dislike for Kobe makes little sense.
> ...


Before we go any further.......I said his teammates "don't like him" that simply means that they fail to have a positive reaction toward him, but that they don't necessarily view him negatively. 

Dislike means not only do they not view him positively but they absolutely DO view him negatively.

Fisher knew nothing of Shaq possibly leaving LA at the end of the season? I'm sure some of the Lakers knew it was a possibility. Don't be naive.

Er what? -- When you can't tell the difference between "don't like" and "dislike" I can't work with you. It's like the difference between "Don't win a race" and "lose a race badly because you suck".....the first implies that you could have come in second, and does not necessarily even mean you ran a bad race.....the second one exclaims that you blow @ss. 

Actions speak louder than words. Want to bet on his actions?

Lamar Odom is not who you want to hold up as a poster child for what players think of Kobe Bryant. We are talking about a player who is one joint away from sitting out a season. I mean that would be like talking to Lawrence Taylor on his thoughts regarding morality. Also.....maybe it's because Lamar hasn't actually PLAYED with him yet.

The Bulls only period of NOT being able to attract free agents was under Jerry Krause. Jerry Krause cannot attract free agents, that is not to say the Bulls can't. Also....have fun attracting free agents when you are pretty much a lock to be capped out for about 7 years. Go to hoopshype and do the numbers. Your best chance at cap room is basically having NO ONE under contract besides Kobe and Odom. Should you keep Caron Butler past his RFA you are guaranteed to be capped out until five years from now. Should you acquire or make commitments with anyone else of mid-level significance, you'll be capped out for the entirety of Bryant's deal. 

Also.....in 1998 Jordan retired....he didn't go elsewhere did he? Therefore possibly keeping Kobe is inconsequential.


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>LB26matrixns</b>!
> 
> 
> Before we go any further.......I said his teammates "don't like him" that simply means that they fail to have a positive reaction toward him, but that they don't necessarily view him negatively.


Are you trying to say that they are _indifferent_ towards Kobe? 



> Dislike means not only do they not view him positively but they absolutely DO view him negatively.
> 
> When you can't tell the difference between "don't like" and "dislike" I can't work with you. It's like the difference between "Don't win a race" and "lose a race badly because you suck".....the first implies that you could have come in second, and does not necessarily even mean you ran a bad race.....the second one exclaims that you blow @ss.


www.merriamwebster.com: 

dislike



> Fisher knew nothing of Shaq possibly leaving LA at the end of the season? I'm sure some of the Lakers knew it was a possibility. Don't be naive.


Pure speculation. It was never reported during the regular season that the Lakers wanted to trade Shaq. What makes you believe Fisher believed during the middle of the regular season that Shaq would be traded? Exactly, nothing but your unsupported speculation. 



> Lamar Odom is not who you want to hold up as a poster child for what players think of Kobe Bryant. We are talking about a player who is one joint away from sitting out a season. I mean that would be like talking to Lawrence Taylor on his thoughts regarding morality. Also.....maybe it's because Lamar hasn't actually PLAYED with him yet.


Wow, now that's sad. If Lamar Odom blasted Kobe Bryant you'd be all over it, don't even attempt to deny it. 



> The Bulls only period of NOT being able to attract free agents was under Jerry Krause. Jerry Krause cannot attract free agents, that is not to say the Bulls can't. Also....have fun attracting free agents when you are pretty much a lock to be capped out for about 7 years. Go to hoopshype and do the numbers. Your best chance at cap room is basically having NO ONE under contract besides Kobe and Odom. Should you keep Caron Butler past his RFA you are guaranteed to be capped out until five years from now. Should you acquire or make commitments with anyone else of mid-level significance, you'll be capped out for the entirety of Bryant's deal.


You literally have no clue what you're talking about. You're assuming Butler will command significant money. You're ignoring the fact that Grant comes off the books in 3 years. You're ignoring basically everything. I suggest you go read up on the CBA and cite some actual sources for your unfounded contention that the Lakers will be capped out for 7 years. :laugh: 



> Also.....in 1998 Jordan retired....he didn't go elsewhere did he? Therefore possibly keeping Kobe is inconsequential.


What!?!?!?


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## Hov (Aug 12, 2003)

If GP and Malone don't like Kobe, why would GP say he'd go to Kobe's trial to support him?
Why would Malone say he has one of the greatest work ethics he's ever seen?
Why would he earn their respect?

GP and Malone both said they came for Shaq AND Kobe. They want out now because they want to win NOW.

They know the Lakers are beginning to rebuild and they know they're on their last legs. Why wouldn't they want to leave? I'll tell you one thing though, Kobe is far from the reason of GP and Malone wanting to leave.


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## LB26matrixns (May 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>EHL</b>!
> 
> 
> Are you trying to say that they are _indifferent_ towards Kobe?


DING DING DING



> www.merriamwebster.com:
> 
> dislike


I didn't list an explicit definition. And spare the links when it comes to something of an academic nature. Do I need to link you to my Purdue degree, and law school email home page? I'm smarter than you. I may not be as good at hacky sack or picking out LA fashions, but I know where I got ya covered buddy.



> Pure speculation. It was never reported during the regular season that the Lakers wanted to trade Shaq. What makes you believe Fisher believed during the middle of the regular season that Shaq would be traded? Exactly, nothing but your unsupported speculation.


LMAO A LAKER fans saying that? That's all you people do!! You never back up anything you say with anything besides your own opinion. Like IV telling me that Shaq and Kobe are close to MJ as talents because HE THINKS the competition wasn't as good back when Michael won. When I listed the competition he didn't respond. 



> Wow, now that's sad. If Lamar Odom blasted Kobe Bryant you'd be all over it, don't even attempt to deny it.


No I wouldn't.....Lamar Odom is scum. Mark it down. Anything he says is worthless. Just to support that I'll give you another example. I hate Jalen Rose. If Jalen Rose ever says anything negative about Kobe I'll be the first one to rip Rose apart. 



> You literally have no clue what you're talking about. You're assuming Butler will command significant money. You're ignoring the fact that Grant comes off the books in 3 years. You're ignoring basically everything. I suggest you go read up on the CBA and cite some actual sources for you contention that the Lakers will be capped out for 7 years. :laugh:


Kobe = an average of 18 million per
Odom's salary when Grant leaves = 11.7 

Let's just say that's 30 right there. Now if Caron stays he'll get at least 6 million. That's 36. 

You telling me that LA can fill a roster in that time without being committed to at least 19 million dollars when Grant is done? If they aren't capped out they'll be under the cap by less than the MLE. 

Were you suggesting that they'd be far enough under to even THINK about a Lebron or Yao or anyone close? Anyone who will make them contenders the minute they sign.....like Shaq did?



> What!?!?!?


It's not a true analogy.


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## LB26matrixns (May 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Hov</b>!
> If GP and Malone don't like Kobe, why would GP say he'd go to Kobe's trial to support him?
> Why would Malone say he has one of the greatest work ethics he's ever seen?
> Why would he earn their respect?
> ...


Where are all the players who are stepping up to say "man, the chance to play with Kobe, I'm not going anywhere!" 

Dennis Rodman by 1996 didn't respect much of anything, but ask him about Jordan and he'd act like Alan Henderson talking about Bobby Knight. The point was......nobody gives Kobe that respect. Nobody is dying to play with Kobe.

Don't try to turn my statement into "everybody hates Kobe" because that isn't what I said, and if that is what any reasonable person thought I said.....I DID NOT SAY THAT!!


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## Pan Mengtu (Jun 18, 2004)

Hahaha, you know your team is screwed when even Slava wants out. I can't stop laughing at that.


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## Hov (Aug 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>LB26matrixns</b>!
> 
> 
> Where are all the players who are stepping up to say "man, the chance to play with Kobe, I'm not going anywhere!"
> ...


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## Mack Ten (Jul 2, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Pan Mengtu</b>!
> Hahaha, you know your team is screwed when even Slava wants out. I can't stop laughing at that.




:laugh: It's a damn shame that he can barely speak english but he's smart enough to no that the Lakers will be in the lottery when Shaq is gone and Kobe is leading them.


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## LB26matrixns (May 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Hov</b>!


The simple point was....nobody considers other options when they have the option to play with Jordan or O'neal.

Kobe doesn't have Jordan like respect true......but I'll take it even farther. Jordan doesn't even have like the respect Hakeem Olajuwon or Isiah Thomas had in their primes. More players wanted to play with Charles Barkley and Patrick Ewing than they do with Kobe. The list is endless.

LOL


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## Hov (Aug 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>LB26matrixns</b>!
> 
> 
> The simple point was....nobody considers other options when they have the option to play with Jordan or O'neal.
> ...


It may be true, but that still doesn't take anything away from Kobe. He gets enough respect.

Also, I'd like to add that maybe Kobe doesn't have many players wanting to play with him (compared to Shaq, MJ, etc.) because he hasn't had his own team yet. He hasn't had a chance to lead his own team for a full season yet. I mean, Shaq was on every Laker team Kobe was on and possibly took the spotlight away from him (spotlight being players wanting to play with him). 
Everyone in the league knows Shaq makes it much easier for you and that he's a leader. Kobe still hasn't had the chance to prove that until now.


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## LB26matrixns (May 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Hov</b>!
> 
> It may be true, but that still doesn't take anything away from Kobe. He gets enough respect.


From fellow players? Who do you see saying "I'd love to play with Kobe."

So you're gonna sit here and tell me that players if they were asked would say that they'd want to play with Kobe, moreso than even Chuck Barkley or Pat Ewing back in the day? NOBODY wants to play with Kobe. Jesus on his own team Kobe would gun even worse.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>LB26matrixns</b>!
> 
> 
> The simple point was....nobody considers other options when they have the option to play with Jordan or O'neal.
> ...


yeah - i remember all the players who signed for less than market value to play with hakeem, ewing, barkley, isiah.....i remember all the stars they all played with because they just couldn't wait to play with them, all that respect they had. i mean, ewing had....., ewing had....., ok, isiah had what's his face......that guy.....umm, ok, well, barkley had so much respect he drew ........... that guy who was dying to play with barkley ...... took less money to go there......, ok, maybe not........


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## Hov (Aug 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>LB26matrixns</b>!
> 
> 
> From fellow players? Who do you see saying "I'd love to play with Kobe."
> ...


Does Kobe NEED players wanting to play for him? His game speaks for himself.

Read the quotes during his 40+ point streak.
He gets enough respect.
http://www.nba.com/features/kobe_40plus_030221.html


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## Pinball (Aug 3, 2002)

More Kobe bashing? This is like musical chairs. Same characters. The only thing that changes is the order they post in. LB, you've got SERIOUS issues. I'm starting to wonder if you're one of Kobe's jilted lovers or something.


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## LB26matrixns (May 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Hov</b>!
> 
> Does Kobe NEED players wanting to play for him? His game speaks for himself.
> 
> ...


Those quotes were the most idiotic things ive ever read. When Kobe is playing his VERY best for a week he's Jordan. When he sucks the same people that called him Jordan aren't calling him Jordan anymore. What happened? If he's Jordan one week Isola then why isn't he Michael the next week? Oh....you were wrong?


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## LB26matrixns (May 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Pinball</b>!
> More Kobe bashing? This is like musical chairs. Same characters. The only thing that changes is the order they post in. LB, you've got SERIOUS issues. I'm starting to wonder if you're one of Kobe's jilted lovers or something.


Wow moderator....this is on topic how? If I got suspended for 3 days for telling someone he gets defensive....what's this post worth? A week? 

Any time you'd like to sort issues out....ask Electric Slim what you can do.


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## Hov (Aug 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>LB26matrixns</b>!
> 
> 
> Those quotes were the most idiotic things ive ever read. When Kobe is playing his VERY best for a week he's Jordan. When he sucks the same people that called him Jordan aren't calling him Jordan anymore. What happened? If he's Jordan one week Isola then why isn't he Michael the next week? Oh....you were wrong?


 
Quit changing the subject. Again, you compare Kobe and MJ when it fits your arguement when MJ has NOTHING to do with this thread.
I just showed some examples of how Kobe is well-respected around the league but you just take it as BS.


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## LB26matrixns (May 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Hov</b>!
> 
> 
> Quit changing the subject. Again, you compare Kobe and MJ when it fits your arguement when MJ has NOTHING to do with this thread.
> I just showed some examples of how Kobe is well-respected around the league but you just take it as BS.


Because that's what it is. If you're going to call Kobe Jordanesque after game 2.....where are you after game 4 or 5? If what you say has ANY validity, you should be as loud as ever, for Michael was Michael every night....to call him that means you are saying that is what he'll be every night, not 1 in 5.


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## Hov (Aug 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>LB26matrixns</b>!
> 
> 
> Because that's what it is. If you're going to call Kobe Jordanesque after game 2.....where are you after game 4 or 5? If what you say has ANY validity, you should be as loud as ever, for Michael was Michael every night....to call him that means you are saying that is what he'll be every night, not 1 in 5.


For the LAST TIME, QUIT comparing Kobe and MJ! This isn't a thread about MJ. This is a thread about how players feel about KOBE, yet you continually bring MJ up.

Is any, *ANY* figure in SPORTS, let alone basketball as respected as MJ? I don't think so. 

You can make anybody seem like their not well-respected if you're gonna keep comparing them to MJ.

Even when he's not on fire, Kobe is known as a top 5 player in the league. Even if it's not even on the level of MJ, is that not respect? To be one of the top 5 basketball players in the world; that's not respect?


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## LB26matrixns (May 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Hov</b>!
> 
> For the LAST TIME, QUIT comparing Kobe and MJ! This isn't a thread about MJ. This is a thread about how players feel about KOBE, yet you continually bring MJ up.
> 
> ...


In reference to what people say when Kobe is playing lights out MJ is relevant, because when Kobe is at his very best 20%....you hear everyone bring up MJ.


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## Hov (Aug 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>LB26matrixns</b>!
> 
> 
> In reference to what people say when Kobe is playing lights out MJ is relevant, because when Kobe is at his very best 20%....you hear everyone bring up MJ.


I edited my post after you responded so:
Even when he's not on fire, Kobe is known as a top 5 player in the league. Even if it's not even on the level of MJ, is that not respect? To be one of the top 5 basketball players in the world; that's not respect?


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## Pinball (Aug 3, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Hov</b>!
> 
> 
> Quit changing the subject. Again, you compare Kobe and MJ when it fits your arguement when MJ has NOTHING to do with this thread.
> I just showed some examples of how Kobe is well-respected around the league but you just take it as BS.


That's a desperation move on his part. He'll use that argument as a crutch anytime he's getting nowhere in a debate. To justify it he'll talk about how Laker fans that he knows are always talking about how Kobe is as good as MJ. Arguing with him is pointless and yet I always find myself responding to his posts.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>LB26matrixns</b>!
> A decent big man?? For Gary "I'm 37 years old and looked like crap in the playoffs" Payton. Do you realize what a premium an even competent big man is at in this league??


A person with a normal IQ should know that the primary reason for Payton's struggles was that he was playing in the Triangle...

It would be very easy to trade him for a decent big man (Juwan Howard, Danny Fortson). Next season, no matter who he is playing for, he will prove that he is still a very good player in this league. Then, you and all his other haters will be forced to eat a full serving of CROW.


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## Hov (Aug 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Pinball</b>!
> Arguing with him is pointless and yet I always find myself responding to his posts.


Same here. :laugh: 
About my last 50+ posts come from responding to his threads/posts. :laugh:


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## LB26matrixns (May 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Hov</b>!
> 
> I edited my post after you responded so:
> Even when he's not on fire, Kobe is known as a top 5 player in the league. Even if it's not even on the level of MJ, is that not respect? To be one of the top 5 basketball players in the world; that's not respect?


Respect from the media and respect from players is two different things. I said respect meaning the respect of players. You don't hear players saying "oh yeah, id love to play with Kobe".....whether there are a million reasons for that or not.....you don't hear that with Bryant and you did with MJ and you do with Shaq.


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## LB26matrixns (May 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Pinball</b>!
> 
> 
> That's a desperation move on his part. He'll use that argument as a crutch anytime he's getting nowhere in a debate. To justify it he'll talk about how Laker fans that he knows are always talking about how Kobe is as good as MJ. Arguing with him is pointless and yet I always find myself responding to his posts.


Your arguments are weak. Your arguments always center around your opinion. There is an implication that your Laker loving opinion is just logic and anything I say is bias laker hating.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>LB26matrixns</b>!
> 
> 
> Respect from the media and respect from players is two different things. I said respect meaning the respect of players. You don't hear players saying "oh yeah, id love to play with Kobe".....whether there are a million reasons for that or not.....you don't hear that with Bryant and you did with MJ and you do with Shaq.


You don't hear people saying, "I want to play with KG," or "I want to play with McGrady." Oh no! They must not be respected! 

And actually...Lamar Odom said that he was excited about the possibility of going to the Lakers and playing with Kobe. You've got a full season of this coming up, so you might as well get started now...EAT CROW! :kissmy:


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## LB26matrixns (May 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> 
> 
> A person with a normal IQ should know that the primary reason for Payton's struggles was that he was playing in the Triangle...
> ...


LOL See MAGIC JOHNSON'S comments on Payton. "What does it matter if it's the triangle or a 1-4 if you can't hit an open shot."

Dude you and your laker buddies are masters of eating crow. Or do we need to rewind to your arrogance in the entire playoffs?


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>LB26matrixns</b>!
> 
> 
> Your arguments are weak. Your arguments always center around your opinion. There is an implication that your Laker loving opinion is just logic and anything I say is bias laker hating.


None of your arguments are very good, either...


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## bballlife (Oct 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Pay Ton</b>!
> As a big fan of Kobe Bryant (I'm not a Laker fan though, don't get those two confused!) he's gradually losing my respect. He just seems determined to have everything the way he wants and is STILL not showing if he's going to committ to L.A. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see Kobe leave L.A., but not if he's going to try and force them to make decisions to keep him, and then just say "Aw, **** it. I think I'm gonna go play over there." L.A. is throwing rose pedals at Kobe's feet (Coming To America style) and Kobe isn't even acknowledging it. And the incident in which Kobe asked if the Clippers would play more home games closer to his home is ridiculous. C'mon Kobe, there's such a thing as abuse of power. Lighten up.


Don't believe everything you hear. The media pushes a lot of stuff, and we should not buy into most of it.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>LB26matrixns</b>!
> 
> 
> LOL See MAGIC JOHNSON'S comments on Payton. "What does it matter if it's the triangle or a 1-4 if you can't hit an open shot."
> ...


Since when has Gary been known as a jump shooter? Anyone?EXACTLY! He has never had a great jump shot. EAT CROW!

And don't pretend like you REALLY thought that the Pistons were going to win that series. The only reason that some non-Lakers fans were saying that the Pistons would win was because they hate the Lakers! Hardly anyone outside of Detroit would REALLY have thought, prior to that series, that the Pistons would win.


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## LB26matrixns (May 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> 
> 
> You don't hear people saying, "I want to play with KG," or "I want to play with McGrady." Oh no! They must not be respected!
> ...


I've got a full season of eating crow for what? Because you guys are gonna suck so bad? I mean what is gonna happen that will have me eating crow? Kobe shooting an even lower FG%?


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## LB26matrixns (May 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> 
> 
> None of your arguments are very good, either...


Your opinion....but that's all you have....you're a laker fan.


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## LB26matrixns (May 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> 
> 
> Since when has Gary been known as a jump shooter? Anyone?
> ...


Eat crow for what? Not being able to hit an open jumper and being a jump shooter are two different things. Magic didn't say "Well Gary isn't a big time shooter nowadays"....he basically sounded off saying Gary sucks.


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## Pan Mengtu (Jun 18, 2004)

Enough with this playing dumb stuff.

Of all the league's stars Kobe is liked less than anyone and Shaq is probably liked more than anyone. Kobe's a loner who has a couple of friends on the clippers and that's it. Shaq is the "life of the party" kind of guy that gets along with everyone. If you want to dispute either one of my claims, please provide names.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>LB26matrixns</b>!
> 
> 
> Your opinion....but that's all you have....you're a laker fan.


I'm a Lakers fan? That's your only argument? Wow, nice. You just criticized another Lakers fan for claiming that their only argument was, "You're a Laker-hater."

You are so hypocritical, it's unbelieveable.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>LB26matrixns</b>!
> 
> 
> Eat crow for what? Not being able to hit an open jumper and being a jump shooter are two different things. Magic didn't say "Well Gary isn't a big time shooter nowadays"....he basically sounded off saying Gary sucks.


You will have to eat some nice smelly crow after Payton proves that he isn't washed up next season, whichever team he is on.


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## LB26matrixns (May 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> 
> 
> You will have to eat some nice smelly crow after Payton proves that he isn't washed up next season, whichever team he is on.


LOL HERES SOME CROW FOR YOUR ATTITUDE IN THE PLAYOFFS!! 

Remember being arrogant before your team and your father Kobe got chumped.


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>LB26matrixns</b>!
> Remember being arrogant before your team and your father Kobe got chumped.


LB, i must congratulate you for your terrific imagination... :greatjob: You just don´t run out of topics when it comes to bahing Kobe Bryant, do you?

About THIS thread, i´m a bit puzzled: What´s your purpose? Are you saying that nobody loves Kobe? Nor players, nor Coaches? Why is it a matter of discussion? Is it really worth it?

Who cares if Kobe is selfish, egocentric and a loner? How does that dimineshes (sp?) his game?
So no-one will want to join *THE LAKERS* and play in *LOS ANGELES* because of Kobe? Pfff!

BTW, how many teams are willing to sign the guy now he is a FA? Well, that just proves he is a damned cancer, doesn´t it?

FYI: T-Mac´s will to play was thrashed by the teams own GM;
Larry Bird was an arrogant loner and once in a while gained criticisms from his own teammates...
Barkley was traded because Philly got fed up with his tantrums...
Allen Iverson doesn´t seem to atract any big-name player to the Sixers, does he?
The list could go on and on (and don´t make me bring Rick Barry into this...)

So, what´s your point in bringing this up?
Don´t you believe that, if given a chance, EVERY TEAM IN THE LEAGUE would want him aboard? That every NBA coach would salivate over that possibility? 
(possible exceptions: Houston and Detroit)

I don´t like the guy. In fact, i also don´t like Shaq. But i love both players GAME.


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## LB26matrixns (May 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>PauloCatarino</b>!
> 
> 
> LB, i must congratulate you for your terrific imagination... :greatjob: You just don´t run out of topics when it comes to bahing Kobe Bryant, do you?


I always will bash Kobe. I know the concept is foreign to you, but it's fun to show what people outside LA think to a Laker fan.



> About THIS thread, i´m a bit puzzled: What´s your purpose? Are you saying that nobody loves Kobe? Nor players, nor Coaches? Why is it a matter of discussion? Is it really worth it?


You want people to act like this isn't the most fun situation ever? LMAO yeah right. For five years all we did was deal with arrogant Laker fans. Watching the team break up is sweet. 

Also, for the last time.....threads and posts don't have to have a purpose in your Laker-centric world to be valid. Ok you think the post doesn't have any purpose. Good....that means that I am being sufficiently irritating to you. Are you like the gustapo of this site? Are you one of Castro's people? I didn't know you were the last word on whether a thread could be written.



> Who cares if Kobe is selfish, egocentric and a loner? How does that dimineshes (sp?) his game?
> So no-one will want to join *THE LAKERS* and play in *LOS ANGELES* because of Kobe? Pfff!


First....I never said it diminishes his on the court game, but his team will be weaker because of it. Consider that if Malone and Fisher were both to leave (Fisher signing elsewhere, Malone simply failing to re-sign with the Lakers).....you guys still have the same MLE to replace them that you'd have if Fisher re-signed with LA. So it will hurt. Because you guys aren't under the cap. Who cares if everyone wants to play for LA......you guys are capped out until Grant's deal ends for sure, and beyond that if you resign Caron, Kareem and anybody else that you may need to keep.



> BTW, how many teams are willing to sign the guy now he is a FA? Well, that just proves he is a damned cancer, doesn´t it?


LOL but my thread had nothing to do with OWNERS. OWNERS will give a 60 million dollar contract to Mehmet Okur. An owner will draft Leon Smith if he thinks it might make his team better. Did I ever say that signing Kobe wouldn't make your team better?



> FYI: T-Mac´s will to play was thrashed by the teams own GM;
> Larry Bird was an arrogant loner and once in a while gained criticisms from his own teammates...
> Barkley was traded because Philly got fed up with his tantrums...
> Allen Iverson doesn´t seem to atract any big-name player to the Sixers, does he?
> The list could go on and on (and don´t make me bring Rick Barry into this...)


TMac is garbage
Bird LED his team to three rings
Barkley was fed up with an inept Philly organization
I can't stand Iverson, he's garbage
Rick Barry is a known A-hole



> So, what´s your point in bringing this up?
> Don´t you believe that, if given a chance, EVERY TEAM IN THE LEAGUE would want him aboard? That every NBA coach would salivate over that possibility?
> (possible exceptions: Houston and Detroit)


I have no doubt they would. Go back and read my post. Where does it say that this guy does not garner the desireable selfishness of owner's and coaches? The answer is....it doesn't.



> I don´t like the guy. In fact, i also don´t like Shaq. But i love both players GAME.


The only thing that matters right now is how much his Laker teammates actually do like him and want to play with him. Because if Malone signs with the Spurs, Fisher with Seattle, Medvedenko leaves, Fox retires and Payton forces a buyout with threats to retire or sit out a year (not beyond that idiots capacity at all)....LA still only has the MLE....the same MLE they have if all those guys aside from Malone, who would have to take the MLE, stay. 

My only point is....were Kobe an MJ, Shaq or even a Hakeem Olajuwon (see Drexler)....these guys would be begging to stay.


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## jc76ers (Feb 4, 2004)

hov,


> For the LAST TIME, QUIT comparing Kobe and MJ! This isn't a thread about MJ. This is a thread about how players feel about KOBE, yet you continually bring MJ up.


the only reason why so called "laker haters" as you laker lovers like to call us bring up comparisons of MJ and kobe is because you guys bring it up first. when kobe hits a game winner, you guys go off spouting about how great he is and how he is gonna be just as good as MJ. but when he's ballhogging and shooting a measly 35%, you guys don't like the comparisons to MJ. you guys gotta take the good with the bad. remember, YOU guys (meaning laker lovers, and the biased media), brought up the MJ comparisons first. non-laker-lovers just respond to it.

oh yeah, and whoever said that barkley and AI couldn't attract any talent is full of it. when barkley was with the sixers, everyone knows sixers management sucked big time!! free agents didn't want to play in philly because they didn't like the owner and management. as for AI, philly can't attract FA becasue they are always capped out with such bad contracts as mckie, mcculloch, etc.


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## LB26matrixns (May 6, 2004)

EXACTLY!! If you compare Kobe to MJ when Kobe is on top of his game, then you have to be ready to have people hound you the 80% of the time that Kobe doesn't live up to MJ.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

so, how did jordan's name come up in this thread?


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## jc76ers (Feb 4, 2004)

kflo,

i believe it was hov...he's the one that brought up links to how great kobe is. i can't open those links now, but i deduce that it has a reference of MJ or at least something indirectly referencing him. If not, I'm sure i can find quotes from kobe-lovers on this board about how jordanesque he is when he plays a good game.


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## LB26matrixns (May 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>kflo</b>!
> so, how did jordan's name come up in this thread?


The point JC made was since Kobe fans were the first to bring it up, everyone else has open license to tee off until the end of time. If I bring it up you act like my reaction to you saying "who brought it up" is gonna be "oh geez, man.....kobe fans are really innocent and nice and im just starting an argument where there isn't one." WRONG. If you never brought it up, which I highly doubt, blame the Laker fans that did bring it up. Because it's never going away now.


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## IAMGREAT (May 22, 2003)

*edited: Deleted for being insulting*


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>jc76ers</b>!
> kflo,
> 
> i believe it was hov...he's the one that brought up links to how great kobe is.


nope.

it's was brought up in the 2nd response to the initial topic. a reference to kobe wanting to be like jordan.


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## LB26matrixns (May 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>IAMGREAT</b>!
> 
> *edited*


Wow way to commit a suspension-worthy violation. Idiot? LOL. I was merely saying that these players are not BEGGING to stay with Kobe. If this were even Hakeem Olajuwon, these players would be begging to stay on.


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## jc76ers (Feb 4, 2004)

kflo,

the 2nd response to the initial topic is by IV and he is a kobe fan,. he doesn't mention anything about MJ, btw. it was brought up by hov.


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## IAMGREAT (May 22, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>LB26matrixns</b>!
> 
> 
> Wow way to commit a suspension-worthy violation. Idiot? LOL. I was merely saying that these players are not BEGGING to stay with Kobe. If this were even Hakeem Olajuwon, these players would be begging to stay on.


They are grown men, why should they BEG. These are grown men in a situation that they must do what is best for them. I cannot definitively say if Kobe Bryant is a positive or negative factor in their decision to move on or stay, but you clearly incited that he is the reason that they don't want to say. Please stop. You and Dan Patrick would be best friends.


----------



## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>jc76ers</b>!
> kflo,
> 
> the 2nd response to the initial topic is by IV and he is a kobe fan,. he doesn't mention anything about MJ, btw. it was brought up by hov.


iv's the 1st response. would it have been too difficult to look at the next response?


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## jc76ers (Feb 4, 2004)

kflo,

ivs the first response, the next one is by sherako or whatever and he mentions nothing about MJ....gosh...you really like to make stuff up don't you? admit it....its a laker fan that brought up MJ first....


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## Hov (Aug 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jc76ers</b>!
> kflo,
> 
> i believe it was hov...he's the one that brought up links to how great kobe is. i can't open those links now, but i deduce that it has a reference of MJ or at least something indirectly referencing him. If not, I'm sure i can find quotes from kobe-lovers on this board about how jordanesque he is when he plays a good game.


Where did I bring up MJ in my post?
Where did I mention Kobe was 'Jordanesque'?

I put up a link that shows quotes from opposing players/coaches said during Kobe's 40+ points streak. 
Is it my fault LB took that and tried to compare Kobe to MJ just because he assumed I was? 

Kobe gets enough respect from the league. LB, you keep saying that nobody declares that they want to play with him. Well, who else besides Shaq has people publicly saying they want to play with him? TMac? No. KG? No. Duncan? No.
And it isn't only the media who believe Kobe is a top 5 player. 90% of this board believes the same. So does Odom:
http://www.nba.com/heat/chat/odom_chat_082903.html
Jason(PA): 5 best players in the NBA in order ?

Lamar Odom: Tim Duncan, Shaq, Kevin Garnett, Kobe Bryant and Jason Kidd.
And that was last year way before the trade.

Lebron believes the same thing. They had a halftime interview during an NBA game on ABC where they asked who he thought were the top 5 players in the game right now. 

Anyway, enough with this thread. Kobe gets enough respect.


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## jc76ers (Feb 4, 2004)

kflo,

if you are refering to sherakos post subject, then i see what you are referring to. however, he makes no sense. he mentions MJ in the title and then talks about payton. there is no link between MJ and kobe. that first link was brought up by hov. thats why people respond to hov and no one responded to sherako.


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## LB26matrixns (May 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>IAMGREAT</b>!
> 
> 
> They are grown men, why should they BEG. These are grown men in a situation that they must do what is best for them. I cannot definitively say if Kobe Bryant is a positive or negative factor in their decision to move on or stay, but you clearly incited that he is the reason that they don't want to say. Please stop. You and Dan Patrick would be best friends.


No....you got to that conclusion all on your own. I didn't say they want to leave because of him, I said they don't say "oh I really want to stay cause of Kobe...." With many great players that IS the case.


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## LB26matrixns (May 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Hov</b>!
> 
> Where did I bring up MJ in my post?
> Where did I mention Kobe was 'Jordanesque'?
> ...


Really?? Cassell and Sprewell didn't want to play with KG? Manu sure did rush out of SA didn't he.

Kidd is not a top 5 player.


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## Hov (Aug 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jc76ers</b>!
> kflo,
> 
> if you are refering to sherakos post subject, then i see what you are referring to. however, he makes no sense. he mentions MJ in the title and then talks about payton. there is no link between MJ and kobe. that first link was brought up by hov. thats why people respond to hov and no one responded to sherako.


Just let me ask you this.

Where did I bring up MJ at ALL in this thread (besides pointing out LB comparing Kobe and MJ when it only fits his arguement)?
Read the 3rd page again. Nowhere in my post did I mention MJ.


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## jc76ers (Feb 4, 2004)

hov,

you didn't bring up the text "mj" or "jordan" or etc,, in your post and i can't verify if there was something that refered to kobe as jordanesque in your link, but if there was, then you indirectly brought it up. but lets say you didn't...don't say that you never mentioned how kobe was jordanesque ever in your previous posts.
which brings me to my point about how you guys like to praise kobe when he has a good game and call him jordanesque. so its fair to say that when he has a bad game, people should criticize and compare him to jordan.


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## Hov (Aug 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>LB26matrixns</b>!
> 
> 
> Really?? Cassell and Sprewell didn't want to play with KG? Manu sure did rush out of SA didn't he.
> ...


Well, apparently Odom wants to play with Kobe now that he's heard of the trade too.  
http://www.ocregister.com/ocr/2004/07/12/sections/sports/sports/article_165233.php


> Odom excited by trade
> 
> His agent said that the former Clipper is eager to team with Bryant.
> 
> ...


And Cassell and Spreewell only announced they'd like to play with KG ONCE the trade was announced. That's different from having players saying they want to play with you when there's no trade rumors at all.

And it's very evident Kobe isn't as well-respected as MJ or Shaq is.. But * ALL I'M ASKING IS* does that make him not respected around the league?


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## Hov (Aug 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jc76ers</b>!
> hov,
> 
> you didn't bring up the text "mj" or "jordan" or etc,, in your post and i can't verify if there was something that refered to kobe as jordanesque in your link, but if there was, then you indirectly brought it up. but lets say you didn't...don't say that you never mentioned how kobe was jordanesque ever in your previous posts.
> which brings me to my point about how you guys like to praise kobe when he has a good game and call him jordanesque. so its fair to say that when he has a bad game, people should criticize and compare him to jordan.


Read my previous posts on the subject of Kobe and MJ.

I've already said plenty of times Kobe's not on the level of MJ and so have many other Laker/Kobe fans. He has 'Jordanesque' games every once in a while but that doesn't mean we see him as the greatest who's ever played the game.


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## Bartholomew Hunt (Mar 4, 2003)

LB, for a law student, I would assume that you have better stuff to do than talk about the Lakers (team you don't even like) for hours upon hours.


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## LB26matrixns (May 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Hov</b>!
> 
> Well, apparently Odom wants to play with Kobe now that he's heard of the trade too.
> http://www.ocregister.com/ocr/2004/07/12/sections/sports/sports/article_165233.php
> ...


No your standard was "Around the league"......my post says "Phil and his teammates"....

All I was saying Hov was "do they disrespect him?" No....and if they do I have no evidence. Do they respect him enough to jump at the opportunity to stay with him? Apparently not.


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## LB26matrixns (May 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>-D!</b>!
> LB, for a law student, I would assume that you have better stuff to do than talk about the Lakers (team you don't even like) for hours upon hours.


Yes in august this will be true....right now its the "summer".....thus no class.


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## Hov (Aug 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>LB26matrixns</b>!
> 
> 
> No your standard was "Around the league"......my post says "Phil and his teammates"....
> ...


Ok, ok. Point taken.


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## LB26matrixns (May 6, 2004)

I think the problem sometimes that makes it look like I hate Kobe is I'll post my argument and then the next post will be Mack Ten basically ripping Kobe apart like Kobe killed somebody in his family....and people start to fuse my posts with Mack Ten. While anyone who hates Kobe is a friend of mine......I will never go as far as that dude.


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## Hov (Aug 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>LB26matrixns</b>!
> I think the problem sometimes that makes it look like I hate Kobe is I'll post my argument and then the next post will be Mack Ten basically ripping Kobe apart like Kobe killed somebody in his family....and people start to fuse my posts with Mack Ten. *While anyone who hates Kobe is a friend of mine*......I will never go as far as that dude.


:laugh: 
Good point.


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## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>LB26matrixns</b>!
> 1. Espn News this morning.....Phil Jackson claims he's glad he got out of LA because he saw the team making several moves in what was then the near future to cater to Kobe Bryant.
> 
> 2. Espn.com -- Gary Payton wants a buyout the second Shaq is traded. Sample the following:
> ...




1st off lets get some perspective.

Buss the owner didn't want Phil back and Phil didn't want to comeback. 

Phil didn't want to come back because the most dominant player in the league was getting traded. The most dominant player was getting traded because Buss didn't want to pay Shaq 90 mill extension plus 60 mill for the next 2 season Plus pay Kobe 130 mill and still not win a title . 

Then Lets be clear if they couldn't win the title with Shaq and Kobe why would they win without Shaq. 

Phil and Kobe didn't like each other big deal coaches and players don't like each other in every city. Had Shaq remained the focal point as the most dominant then Phil would have stayed because they would have had a chance to win a title , Phil doesn't do rebuild. Thats a fact and thats where the Lakers are. 

Fisher has never said he doesn't like Kobe matter of fact he and Kobe are friends . Fisher is closer to Kobe than most any other teammate. Fisher maybe leaving for a better opportunity. Fisher has the kinda talent that blends best with a really good big man so he can spot up shoot. Lakers aren't gonna give Fisher 6-7 mill a year to essentially sit behind GP or be a spot up shooter so him leaving is independant of Kobe. Fisher may get more doughelsewhere.


Now GP. GP and Kobe's game oppose each other, they both dominate the ball and with the trade odom and Kobe are gonna be doing all the ball handling so there no real use for him and he knows that. 

He came to play with a championship level team , he was influenced by Shaq to join the Lakers. WHY because Shaq was always the one politicking behind the scene's about keeping certain players and getting rid of some. He admits to acting like the gm so GP's leaving because he see's no role on the current team doesn't mean he dislikes Kobe. 

Shaq leaving is about money not Kobe. He wanted the extension and felt disrespected by the contract offer which was less than the current one. 


Now read this by Sam Smith

One of my favorite Jordan stories was in a regular season game against the Milwaukee Bucks. It was before Jackson was head coach and the Bulls were running more traditional NBA sets. They were in a pick and roll and Bill Cartwright rolled to the basket alone as Jordan's and Cartwright's defenders jumped at Jordan, who twisted through the mass of manhood and took the shot. Afterward, the team was going back to the bench in a timeout and Cartwright asked Jordan why Jordan didn't pass to him alone under the basket while Jordan was double teamed. "One of the guys was Fred Roberts," Jordan explained.


You mean they think they can guard me with mere mortals! Even three or four of them!


Bryant is like that.


Kobe and MJ are alike and yes Kobe is jordanesque. MJ played bad games all the time, MJ reputation pre 91 was one of a selfish player TEAMMATES didn't like very much. 

You're taking a mixture of things and pointing to a conclusion that don't add up. 

Kobe's a recluse a very private man who takes the game seriously and plays it intensly, he is standoffish and selfish with the ball from time to time again MJ was selfish also. Great scorers all are. malone was thought of that way as was Wilt. 

Kobe's is not as popular amongst his teammates because of Shaq's gregarious nature. Shaq is more affable and outgoing. Kobe's not but it doesn;t mean the guys hate him. 

Seems like you've been reading too many Tom Friend articles.


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## LB26matrixns (May 6, 2004)

*Re: Re: We're now seeing how much Laker players and Phil care for Kobe*



> Originally posted by <b>jazzy1</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


All this post does is confuse things ive already clarified.

Never said there was a "big deal" if phil left

Never said Kobe's teammates actively dislike him or disrespect him.

Go back and point to something I said that says that there is a "big deal" if phil didn't want to stay with Kobe.


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## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

We're all seeing how much Lakers players and coaches like Bryant. Looks like the evidence points to very little as the answer.

This is your very 1st post.

The title of the post is how much the Lakers players care and Phil care for Kobe. 

Now you said that you never said the players don't actively dislike Kobe. But thats what the 1st post states. 

Why are you mentioning that its a big deal if Phil left I never made that point anyway so why are you bringing that up. 

You never made that point I never made it either. 

Now I apologize if you've backed off the initial statements throughout this post because I have not read all 6 pages but if the 1st post stands as the general point you're making my comments stand.


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## LB26matrixns (May 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>jazzy1</b>!
> We're all seeing how much Lakers players and coaches like Bryant. Looks like the evidence points to very little as the answer.
> 
> This is your very 1st post.
> ...


You need a better grasp of the english language. Liking someone very little doesn't mean you dislike them. 

It's like the difference between "having very little money" and being in "severe debt".......



> Why are you mentioning that its a big deal if Phil left I never made that point anyway so why are you bringing that up.
> 
> You never made that point I never made it either.
> 
> Now I apologize if you've backed off the initial statements throughout this post because I have not read all 6 pages but if the 1st post stands as the general point you're making my comments stand.


"Phil and Kobe didn't like each other *big deal* coaches and players don't like each other in every city. Had Shaq remained the focal point as the most dominant then Phil would have stayed because they would have had a chance to win a title , Phil doesn't do rebuild. Thats a fact and thats where the Lakers are."


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## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>LB26matrixns</b>!
> 
> 
> You need a better grasp of the english language. Liking someone very little doesn't mean you dislike them.
> ...



I think you need a better graps of basketball knowledge. 

You get called on your original premise now you want to mince words. Okay we can go there. 

You give all these examples to support a point of view then you vacate from it when it appears to add up to an illogical conclusion. 

You say this player leaves the team , and that coach leaves, and that player leaves and all that means they like Kobe very little.

They could love Kobe and still not want to stay, but in your original post you tried marrying all those things and now you back off of those points Yeah okay. 

You never supported the last statement in that orginal post nor the title of the post by any of the things you listed. How exactly does any of that mean they like Kobe very little or care very little.

Thats whats up. 

Stop mincing your words take the postion and man up. 

You're using the Michael Moore slippery slope of fact technique.



Man please.


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## LB26matrixns (May 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>jazzy1</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


LOL like was very obviously meant in the context of "like to play with him"........

What you're doing is saying that they could like him and still not play with him. I mean yeah.....he could have a really cool lizard collection and Derek Fisher could like him because they share a mutual affection toward lizards....but i think it's pretty easy to see that that isn't the CONTEXT I used the word in.

Main Entry: con·text 
Pronunciation: 'kän-"tekst
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, weaving together of words, from Latin contextus connection of words, coherence, from contexere to weave together, from com- + texere to weave -- more at TECHNICAL
1 : the parts of a discourse that surround a word or passage and can throw light on its meaning


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## LB26matrixns (May 6, 2004)

> Why are you mentioning that its a big deal if Phil left I never made that point anyway so why are you bringing that up.
> 
> "Phil and Kobe didn't like each other *big deal* coaches and players don't like each other in every city. Had Shaq remained the focal point as the most dominant then Phil would have stayed because they would have had a chance to win a title , Phil doesn't do rebuild. Thats a fact and thats where the Lakers are."


Stop DIRECTLY contradicting yourself if you're gonna bring it.


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>LB26matrixns</b>!
> I always will bash Kobe. I know the concept is foreign to you, but it's fun to show what people outside LA think to a Laker fan.


Like i´ve said, i could care less if people would want to smash Kobe´s "rodent" face to a bloody pulp...
He´s the most gifted player in the league and your hate won´t change that...



> You want people to act like this isn't the most fun situation ever? LMAO yeah right. For five years all we did was deal with arrogant Laker fans. Watching the team break up is sweet.


I can understand this...
I ROFLMAO (an LB quote - don´t really know what it means...) while watching the "dinasty" Bulls turn into a joke... Being spurned by FA and dealing their best players over and over again... Yeah, i understand the joy of watching a franchise collapse...
Off course, i never thought about the Celtics that way. In fact, it really bothered me we weren´t facing them in our last three-peat (that´s how much i respect them). 



> Also, for the last time.....threads and posts don't have to have a purpose in your Laker-centric world to be valid.


Yeah, i kinda figured it out myself from reading your posts...



> Ok you think the post doesn't have any purpose. Good....that means that I am being sufficiently irritating to you.


Like i´ve said before, LB, i like your posting... It is an admirable task to make an argument out of nothing... 



> Are you like the gustapo of this site? Are you one of Castro's people? I didn't know you were the last word on whether a thread could be written.


Nope.
From my counts, i was edited 4 times and warned about being suspended once (and i deserved it), so i don´t think i could be classified like that.



> First....I never said it diminishes his on the court game, but his team will be weaker because of it. Consider that if Malone and Fisher were both to leave (Fisher signing elsewhere, Malone simply failing to re-sign with the Lakers).....you guys still have the same MLE to replace them that you'd have if Fisher re-signed with LA. So it will hurt. Because you guys aren't under the cap. Who cares if everyone wants to play for LA......you guys are capped out until Grant's deal ends for sure, and beyond that if you resign Caron, Kareem and anybody else that you may need to keep.


It´s obvious that Derek wants the money. And i can´t blame him. He was very important in the 3 rings we got, and if he wants to go elsewhere, that´s fine with me.
Got no beef with D-Fish. But he isn´t leaving because of Kobe, but for a better paycheck and a chance to be a full-time starter...



> LOL but my thread had nothing to do with OWNERS. OWNERS will give a 60 million dollar contract to Mehmet Okur. An owner will draft Leon Smith if he thinks it might make his team better. Did I ever say that signing Kobe wouldn't make your team better?


Off course you didn´t say that. You´re an intelligent poster. But Kobe is not Okur. And when KG (wich i love) was being paid an astronomic sum (like others, in fact) and providing very little, where were you, then? 



> TMac is garbage


Nice. I agree Eddie Robinson is better...



> Bird LED his team to three rings


And Kobe co-led his for three more. What does it have to do with your logic?



> Barkley was fed up with an inept Philly organization


Don´t pretend the trade was Chuck´s idea, dude. It just isn´t true... 



> I can't stand Iverson, he's garbage


Yup. Pure unbiased (again) posting, here. Are you sure you aren´t "therealdeal"?



> Rick Barry is a known A-hole


Curious. That´s what people thought about Ol´Baldy when he went to Las Vegas amidst an NBA Finals to endulge in his gambling habits... 



> The only thing that matters right now is how much his Laker teammates actually do like him and want to play with him. Because if Malone signs with the Spurs, Fisher with Seattle, Medvedenko leaves, Fox retires and Payton forces a buyout with threats to retire or sit out a year (not beyond that idiots capacity at all)....LA still only has the MLE....the same MLE they have if all those guys aside from Malone, who would have to take the MLE, stay.


Players come. Players go. The franchise remains.
And you bet this franchise owes a lot more to Kobe than to the rest of them.... Although i love Malone and wish he stayed, i can understand his desire to win a ring before it´s all said and done... and SA is a fine bet...



> My only point is....were Kobe an MJ, Shaq or even a Hakeem Olajuwon (see Drexler)....these guys would be begging to stay.


It´s obvious that Kobe isn´t at the same plateau as them other guys... the question is: will he ever be?

And unless you´re Nostradamus reincarnated, we must wait and see...


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## LB26matrixns (May 6, 2004)

*MIAMI -- NBA free agents are lining up for the opportunity to play alongside Shaquille O'Neal in a Miami Heat uniform.

And the line starts behind sharp-shooting San Antonio forward Robert Horry.

"Robert loves playing with Shaq," said Robert Barr, Horry's agent. "If Shaq is going to be there, there is definitely going to be interest."

New Jersey's Rodney Rogers, who plays both power forward and small forward, wants to play in Miami, too.

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"He has plenty of interest," Rogers' agent, James Butch Williams said. "I think that would be a tremendous addition. Not speaking as an agent but speaking as a fan, if the Heat put Rodney with Shaq... you talk about physical. You're physical at the five (center) as well as the four (power forward) and three (small forward)."

Barr and Williams said they'll definitely call the Heat this week.

Atlanta guard Bob Sura also wants to team with Shaq.

"My agent has had preliminary discussions with them," Sura said Monday. "Of course I would have interest. They're in great position now."

Milwaukee forward Toni Kukoc might even be back in the mix for Miami.

This is the drawing power O'Neal has throughout the NBA.

Doors that were closed to Miami a week ago now are wide open.

"Everyone wants to play with the best player in the league," Sura said. "Especially being a guard or perimeter player. It helps."

Granted, this isn't the Who's Who of the NBA, but considering Miami has only the $5.1 million mid-level exception and the $1.6 million exception and it's a thin market, things could be much worse. The Heat could be without O'Neal's recruiting ability.

"Everybody loves to play with great players so I think that's a big part of the attraction," agent Mark Bartelstein said. "The other side of the coin is there's only so much a team can do economically. He takes up such a huge amount of cash.

"But all things being equal, everybody would love to play the game with Shaquille O'Neal. He makes the game easier."*

This would be liking someone and wanting to play with them LOL. Get it now Kobe lovers?


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## Hov (Aug 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>LB26matrixns</b>!
> This would be liking someone and wanting to play with them LOL. Get it now Kobe lovers?


Not again  
Cmon LB, who besides Shaq has other players actually publicly saying they want to play with him?


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## LB26matrixns (May 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Hov</b>!
> 
> Not again
> Cmon LB, who besides Shaq has other players actually publicly saying they want to play with him?


Hey dude I didn't say "everybody has NBA players lining up to play with them, except Kobe." I'm not saying anyone else does. I'm just highlighting the difference


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## Hov (Aug 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>LB26matrixns</b>!
> 
> 
> Hey dude I didn't say "everybody has NBA players lining up to play with them, except Kobe." I'm not saying anyone else does. I'm just highlighting the difference


Yes, but your specifically talking to 'Kobe lovers'.
Besides, it doesn't help that you get into arguements with Laker fans daily about Kobe either.


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## LB26matrixns (May 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Hov</b>!
> 
> Yes, but your specifically talking to 'Kobe lovers'.
> Besides, it doesn't help that you get into arguements with Laker fans daily about Kobe either.


Yes it does....it's summer man and im on a lake in the middle of nowhere house sitting.....it's like the Shining here bro.


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