# Rumor: Dolan Already Made A Decision To Keep Isiah Thomas



## USSKittyHawk (Jul 22, 2005)

> James Dolan still has not explained exactly what he means by "evident progress," that vague term the chairman of Madison Square Garden has used since last June when discussing Isiah Thomas' future employment.
> 
> Thomas will have reached the midway point of his make-or-break season. Regardless of the result, the Knicks will have a losing record after 41 games. But they do seem to be making progress.
> 
> ...


http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/story/489972p-412697c.html

Now do you believe Frank Isola?


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## Truknicksfan (Mar 25, 2005)

If dolan has made his decision to keep thomas then he is dumber then I thought. As it stand there record is 18-25 and that is pretty bad. The only reason were not buried 6 feet under the ground is because how weak the divison is and the bottom of the east is.


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## 0oh_S0o_FreSh!! (Jun 3, 2006)

:chill: 

that is it for me. I have to admit i was impressed with the knicks gameplay even with the loss. every game we win or we lose, its totally suprising. You never can predict a game for the knicks, theyre so up and down, their players are the same, and the owner is too. Now we have Curry out, wgere 18-26, what progress can this team be headed too? we are going against the heat next, with shaq and wade back, and i just dont know what to expect or worry how many points the teams gonna get beat by. Now im hit with this news that jommy crack corn dolan is thinking of keeping that ****-eyed sona ***** isiah thomas and he thinks this is progress? WE dont even have our picks anymore. I frankly feel bad for the real talent on this team. Who the hell decided to let dolan take over this team? they should have some kinda civil service act to give jobs to people who really deserve it. I sure do hope its frank, how bout getting kiki vand. in here? we are such a mediocre team right now, and w eare standing on a peg of one leg, supported by crawford and our sophomore players.

If he gets an extension, dolan better quit, because all of the decisions he makes, just ends up in the bottom of the toilet like the bull**** this organization has been going through.

-I'm ****ing out. Peace.


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

Mr.Educated said:


> :chill:
> 
> that is it for me. I have to admit i was impressed with the knicks gameplay even with the loss. every game we win or we lose, its totally suprising. You never can predict a game for the knicks, theyre so up and down, their players are the same, and the owner is too. Now we have Curry out, wgere 18-26, what progress can this team be headed too? we are going against the heat next, with shaq and wade back, and i just dont know what to expect or worry how many points the teams gonna get beat by. Now im hit with this news that jommy crack corn dolan is thinking of keeping that ****-eyed sona ***** isiah thomas and he thinks this is progress? WE dont even have our picks anymore. I frankly feel bad for the real talent on this team. Who the hell decided to let dolan take over this team? they should have some kinda civil service act to give jobs to people who really deserve it. I sure do hope its frank, how bout getting kiki vand. in here? we are such a mediocre team right now, and w eare standing on a peg of one leg, supported by crawford and our sophomore players.
> 
> ...


*With Shaq and Wade, the Heat have not been that impressive so why are you writing off the Knicks? We just went toe to toe with one of the best teams in the league and lost by 5 with two key players out. The Heat are not nearly the team most make them out to be and I'm confident we can beat them if we come out and play right.

That kind of confidence wouldn't be there if we did not have a guy like Isiah Thomas who has assembled a pretty impressive young team. Honestly, we are in the midst of a rebuilding project and have managed to beat some of the better teams both last year and this year in the league. What about that could get you down? That in itself is a clear sign that this team is moving in a positive direction regardless of the little bumps in the road. Like I mentioned earlier, we are young so the inconsistency is to be expected when we underperform. The difference however between us and another stereotypical young and inconsistent team is that we have shown regard consistency of getting up and matching the upper-echlon teams in their play.

Honestly, some are just so arrogant that they refuse to change their opinion under any circumstances and either ignore the facts or ignore solid reasoning. How you could make a statement that we traded away our picks is beyond me. Over the course of 2 seasons, Isiah has managed to draft 5 first round draft picks. This upcoming year, we'll have another first round draft pick and possibly another one via trade. What about that suggests to you that Isiah is pawning away our future? What about the success and talent of guys like Channing Frye, David Lee, Nate Robinson, Renaldo Balkman and Mardy Collins suggests to you that Isiah has done a poor job as a talent evaluator? 

Those are the facts. It's your business whether you choose to ignore them or not. We may not be a championship team in the next few years but we are making progress towards that by constantly getting younger and more talented. First thing is first, so let's set the standard to making the playoffs and progressively work our way up; it's not possible to get to the championships before growing through these processes. Championships aren't the only measure of success, so it's time to stop acting as though we have to have one as a sign of progress. I don't even understand how New Yorkers could be so spoiled when we haven't had a title in so many years as it is.*


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## Truknicksfan (Mar 25, 2005)

> Championships aren't the only measure of success, so it's time to stop acting as though we have to have one as a sign of progress. I don't even understand how New Yorkers could be so spoiled when we haven't had a title in so many years as it is.


Fine we wont look at rings to find sucess. Lets look at the win column....OOOO not much sucess there either.

I understand what your saying twinkie but the point of the matter is that New Yorkers want to see results. They dont have to be in rings but they do have to be in the win column. Not saying that I agree with how people look at it, but fact is fact, and New Yorkers are going to look at the win column when the seasons over.


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

Just another thing that absolutely kills me to is how people recommend other GM's to replace Isiah who have done the same exact things during their tenure elsewhere but worse. A prime example of this would be Kiki Vandewegh.

I'll be the first to say that the Nuggets are a very impressive team so far. Prior to acquiring Iverson, was this team really a contender though? At any point and time, did anyone really even see them as players in the West down the road? I didn't. 

They got very lucky in a very talented draft by having a selection good enough to pick Carmelo Anthony. Lucky for them, their selection was not higher because Kiki has gone on record stating he would have drafted Darko Milicic around the same time the "experts" were questioning whether Lebron should have even went ahead of Darko. One mistake like that and Kiki goes loses his job off of piss poor job performance. After all, this is the man that selected Nikolay Tskitishivili no.4 in the 2002 draft with Amare Stoudemire, Carlos Boozer, Caron Butler, Drew Gooden, the emerging Chris Wilcox, Tayshaun Prince and Nenad Krstic still on the board. Who can even forget him trading a very good first round pick to acquire the rights of superstar to be Omar Cook. Or how about him bringing in Rodney White for several million dollars only to have him be a guy that sits on the bench? How about him bringing in Kenyon Martin for a multi-year multi-million contract, worthy of a superstar, that has put the Nuggets in a financial bind for quite some time?


You see what I mean? The grass is always greener on the other side for people. Kiki has done a far worse job than Isiah Thomas. The only difference between Kiki is that he didn't have to deal with the pressure of being in New York nor had to deal with how badly a sabatoged team the Knicks were that Isiah inherited. Leave Isiah alone because he is doing his job and doing it well.


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

Truknicksfan said:


> Fine we wont look at rings to find sucess. Lets look at the win column....OOOO not much sucess there either.
> 
> I understand what your saying twinkie but the point of the matter is that New Yorkers want to see results. They dont have to be in rings but they do have to be in the win column. Not saying that I agree with how people look at it, but fact is fact, and New Yorkers are going to look at the win column when the seasons over.


But you see, even a guy like you would come on here and say "stats don't tell the entire story." The funny thing is though that those same people rely on win and loss column's to be the start-all, end-all regarding a team. That is farthest from the truth and have been trying to make that point clear. Just as stats don't record the intangibles an individual player brings that ultimately affects the outcome of a game, does your record. A record does not make note of whether your team had key injuries for the year or anything regarding a coaching change, team youth, etc. that all effect a team. It does not take into account how good a team will perform against another one, whether your players are getting better on a younger team, or how close your team may be from winning consistently, etc. 

For instance, I've thought that the Clippers were a solid group of players and needed one more piece to win and win big. One would look at a record and say that they are far away from being anything close to a good team. The next year they add Sam Cassell and they not only make the playoffs but go to the 2nd round and play deep into the 2nd round before being eliminated. This is why I'm just amazed by the fact that most would say the Knicks record suggests they are far away from doing anything big when that does very little to suggest how good what you already have is. If you ask me, what we already have is pretty damn good and is a piece away from winning like the Clippers. The key here is the direction we choose to go. Do we go with another proven veteran just to win at the expense of our youth or do we go young like with a guy like Randy Foye who I believe will be a star? In either case, one of those pieces can and would make the difference for us.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

I think it migh be helpful if people actually got to compare his tenure to other GM's and they would see , Zeke unlike most GM's is getting a raw deal.

http://www.n-c-systems.com/hoops/Se...y=01&EndYear=&EndMonth=&EndDay=&submit=Search

feel free to search around this site for the moves of other GM's and you will see no matter who it is there are hits and misses, the amount of garbage Zeke gets for moves pretty much on par with any other GM .

and maybe will see I'm not some I.Thomas apologist , I'm just a realist.


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## USSKittyHawk (Jul 22, 2005)

I must take the time to give Grinch props, because he has stuck by Isiah through thick and thin. Even though I still think Isiah is actually Grinch on this message board. LOL


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

ok Kitty I'll prove how meritless all the assertions against Zeke really are by lsting some of the mistakes of his atlantic division rivals during Zeke's time as GM.

raptors
1.drafted Rafael Arajao 8th overall (the 76ers drafted Iguodala with the next pick)
2.Gave rafer alston a 6 year 29 mil. deal.
3. traded Vince carter for Zo Mourning (who never played for them ) Aaron williams eric williams and 2 picks that became renaldo balkman and joey graham
4.traded jalen rose and the pick that is now balkman for antonio davis.
5.drafted Joey graham when granger , gerald green, david lee, nate robinson, monta ellis and jarret jack were still available.

Celts 
1.traded the rights to foye , Lafrentz & dan dickau for sebatian telfair
2.traded chris mills and mike james for lindsay hunter, chucky atkins and a 1st round pick
3.drafted al jefferson(leaving Gerald green , dorrell wright & JR smith
) delonte west & tony allen, (leaving kevin martin and trevor ariza and chris duhon on the board.)
4.traded antione walker for Qyntel Woods, Curtis Borchardt, rights to Albert Miralles, 2006 second round pick (from Heat) (#56-Edin Bavcic), 2007 or 2008 conditional second round pick (from Heat) (?-?), cash 
5.signed brian scalibrine to a 5 yr. contract

76ers 
1.signed willie greene to a 6 year 29 million deal.
2.traded Iverson for andre miller, joe smith a nuggets 1st round pick and a mavericks 1st rounder
3.aquired chris webber for corliss williamson kenny thomas and brian skinner
4.hired larry brown in a management capcity 
5.traded Glenn robinson for jamal mashburn and rodney rodgers

nets
1. Fired Byron scott, off of 2 finals apperances and haven't been past the 2nd round since.
2.drafted antione wright
3.signed jeff mcinnis
4. drafted victor kryapa instead of kevin martin or ariza
5.signed eric williams to 3 yr. 12 mil deal.


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## 0oh_S0o_FreSh!! (Jun 3, 2006)

TwinkieFoot said:


> *With Shaq and Wade, the Heat have not been that impressive so why are you writing off the Knicks? We just went toe to toe with one of the best teams in the league and lost by 5 with two key players out. The Heat are not nearly the team most make them out to be and I'm confident we can beat them if we come out and play right.
> 
> That kind of confidence wouldn't be there if we did not have a guy like Isiah Thomas who has assembled a pretty impressive young team. Honestly, we are in the midst of a rebuilding project and have managed to beat some of the better teams both last year and this year in the league. What about that could get you down? That in itself is a clear sign that this team is moving in a positive direction regardless of the little bumps in the road. Like I mentioned earlier, we are young so the inconsistency is to be expected when we underperform. The difference however between us and another stereotypical young and inconsistent team is that we have shown regard consistency of getting up and matching the upper-echlon teams in their play.
> 
> ...


Thats the problem with the knicks. They are unpredictable. they can lose to the ****tiest teams, but yet they can play hard against good teams or get flat out killed by them. I want to go into a game knowing that positive things are going to happen. Sure isiah did a godo job gettign these players. but at what cost? 112 million in debt for the knicks, for average players, and our seats in the garden havent even been filled. Truth is, the rookies are mroe dependable than the starters which is pretty sad. I think i speak for many when i say that although we are headed into a right direction, how long is the *path[/B we take? im not gonna wait 4-5 years just for a team to improve or make the playoffs. we have to start making change and i dont think isiah is trying to do that. he gave our pick away, and if we were in a rebuildign process, we'd be trying to keep most of our pciks as possile. Truth is, isiah does not know what hes doing right now, and dolan doesnt realize that.*


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

Mr.Educated said:


> Thats the problem with the knicks. They are unpredictable. they can lose to the ****tiest teams, but yet they can play hard against good teams or get flat out killed by them. I want to go into a game knowing that positive things are going to happen. Sure isiah did a godo job gettign these players. but at what cost? 112 million in debt for the knicks, for average players, and our seats in the garden havent even been filled. Truth is, the rookies are mroe dependable than the starters which is pretty sad. I think i speak for many when i say that although we are headed into a right direction, how long is the *path[/B we take? im not gonna wait 4-5 years just for a team to improve or make the playoffs. we have to start making change and i dont think isiah is trying to do that. he gave our pick away, and if we were in a rebuildign process, we'd be trying to keep most of our pciks as possile. Truth is, isiah does not know what hes doing right now, and dolan doesnt realize that.*


*

i think they know what they are doing more than you realize.

http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2007/01/25/ap3364277.html

the knicks are the most valuable team in the nba . they are not 112 million in debt, far from it. Also the knicks are losing quite a bit in salary after this season , H20 comes off the books as does Mo Taylor , Jalen Rose, Shandon Anderson thats over 60 million right there to be sliced off the payroll.

and the knicks make so much money in a much larger company (Cablevision) it wouldn't matter anyway.


if it mattered to them i assure you it wouldn't be possible for the knicks to spend like they do they would impose a spending limit on their Player personel people , but they dont, because its not as important as putting out the image that they are doing whatever it takes to be the best team they can be.*


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

Mr.Educated said:


> Thats the problem with the knicks. They are unpredictable. they can lose to the ****tiest teams, but yet they can play hard against good teams or get flat out killed by them. I want to go into a game knowing that positive things are going to happen. Sure isiah did a godo job gettign these players. but at what cost? 112 million in debt for the knicks, for average players, and our seats in the garden havent even been filled. Truth is, the rookies are mroe dependable than the starters which is pretty sad. I think i speak for many when i say that although we are headed into a right direction, how long is the *path[/B we take? im not gonna wait 4-5 years just for a team to improve or make the playoffs. we have to start making change and i dont think isiah is trying to do that. he gave our pick away, and if we were in a rebuildign process, we'd be trying to keep most of our pciks as possile. Truth is, isiah does not know what hes doing right now, and dolan doesnt realize that.*


*

Dude, I don't want to sound like an *** but do you know what your doing? You just said we gave our pick away? I believe your referring to this years pick and if that is the case then you need to revist the exact terms of the trade. The Bulls were given the right to swap picks with us this year. In essence, we still have a first round pick and the fact of the matter is that Isiah has gotten talent no matter where he has been in the draft. What is there to be up and arms about? The deal helped land us a franchise center. Even if you were referring to last years draft, we still ended up with two first round picks and two solid players; bringing the total of first round picks up to 5 in 2 years. 


As we speak right now, we sit about 9th in the Eastern Conference and that has been after INJURIES and suspensions that have kept players out. The good news behind all of this is that we've been on the upswing so moving up in the Eastern Conference might be a very realistic possibility. We may be in the playoffs this very year so what are you referring to about "4-5 years?"

As for the "$112 million," who cares? Your not footing the bill and neither am I so how is that even relevant on the court? So that we could gut our team and field a squad not worthy of an expansion franchise? All that to say that "we're below the cap." The simple fact of the matter is that cap space does not equate to success or good players. 

The Denver Nuggets gutted there team and got cap space? They used it on Kenyon Martin who no longer plays or makes much of a difference for the team. The Nuggets still managed to build a solid team (granted not contenders) through the draft and trades.

The Atlanta Hawks have had cap space for nearly 6 years and they still aren't winning after signing Joe Johnson. The Bulls? They spent 7 years sitting on cap space with no one willing to touch that money until they got good through trades and the draft.

What all this suggests to me is that gaining that cap space means absolutely nothing unless you field some solid young players that put you in the position to win. The Knicks have managed to field those players and are not that far away in the Eastern Conference. This very same draft may give us the player next to Curry but on the perimeter to catapult this team into some of the better ranks in the league.



P.S., take a closer look at the Knicks financial situation. We stand to lose about $40 million worth of contracts at the end of the season and have a payroll that continually decreases over the course of the next few years. Seems to me like Isiah has managed the job of rebuilding because he's had his young players and may have projections to have our salaries under control.*


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## USSKittyHawk (Jul 22, 2005)

Da Grinch said:


> ok Kitty I'll prove how meritless all the assertions against Zeke really are by lsting some of the mistakes of his atlantic division rivals during Zeke's time as GM.
> 
> raptors
> 1.drafted Rafael Arajao 8th overall (the 76ers drafted Iguodala with the next pick)
> ...


Good points, I think the Nets may have the curse of Bryon Scott, just like we have the curse of Patrick Ewing. I still think Isiah wasted a lot of money with some of these overrated players. His record for signing free agents is atrocious as far as I'm concerned.


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## 0oh_S0o_FreSh!! (Jun 3, 2006)

"We may not be a championship team in the next few years but we are making progress towards that by constantly getting younger and more talented."

We want progress. when you made that remark, you poitned out to me that you want us to make na "improvement". like i said. Improvement for many of us fans isnt going to the playoffs and getting eliminated in the first round. Improving is mentally knowing our players capabilities which can help us succeed through the season, which the knicks havent done. Of course we have a first rounder. But i was speaking of *ours
* 

with the way the bulls are playing, that pick isnt going to matter much and the way we are playing we are helping th ebulls get a solid pick. what playing time will our pick get if he is in the 20-30 or possibly 40 range?. WE may get 40 mil off the books this upcoming season but that still leaves what... 70-60 million left? the hawks dont have anything to do with it. SO what they obtained one decent player. same with the other team you mentioned. The talent around JJ isnt there, but i know the talent for the knicks and the "franchise" center you say is there. It upsets me that we arent trying our best as a team, and althoguh i respect ur optimism, we are lookign at what seems to be most of the bad sides of the season.


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

Mr.Educated said:


> "We may not be a championship team in the next few years but we are making progress towards that by constantly getting younger and more talented."
> 
> We want progress. when you made that remark, you poitned out to me that you want us to make na "improvement". like i said. Improvement for many of us fans isnt going to the playoffs and getting eliminated in the first round. Improving is mentally knowing our players capabilities which can help us succeed through the season, which the knicks havent done. Of course we have a first rounder. But i was speaking of *ours
> *
> ...



I'm still not sure what was the point you were initially trying to make in your first paragraph. By adding young players we are improving because those will be the players that will figure to be keys to our success in the near future. The pick that we will recieve in the first round will undoubtedly be in the first round (mean at worse 30 and not the 40 range that you predicted). 

The Bulls are not that good and chances are their record will flatten out during the 2nd half of the season when they play a majority of their games on the road. Considering these young Bulls have been considerably mediocre the past couple of seasons down the stretch, I feel it reasonable to say that the Bulls may very well be .500 when everything is said and over. In either case, they are not likely to finish with a pick much worse than 20th in the draft.

Isiah has shown on several occassions in the past that he's a synch when it comes to drafting players no matter where in the draft (see Trevor Ariza). Why doubt him now? This supposed draft has been considered to be one of the best EVER. Let me repeat that for emphasis, *EVER*. Those kind of conversations aren't aroused from a top heavy draft or a draft of mediocre players. The fact of the matter is that we'll end up with a player of consequence if we keep the pick, so the fact that the Bulls may end up with the better pick is irrelevant especially when we may have the right to boast about having the best center in the league and an unstoppable force.

In short, guys like that draft pick will be apart of the improvement we make as a team and internally as these individuals get better. Be patient because our squad is on average just 24-26 years old. At the moment, we may just be prepared to get into the playoffs and get eliminated in the first round but you have to learn to crawl before you walk. With this kind of experience, we'll have the players with intelligence and develop the consistency where we know what to expect from them.

As far as the whole money issue, that is a start. It's like your complaining about improvement. Did you really expect us to lose all our contracts at once and be below the cap? $60-$70 is only $5-$7 million above the cap which is a hell of alot better place to sit than at $50 million especially with a very young and talented core in place. 

Let's back-track to the Hawks issue. They have all this cap space and nothing to do with it. They may have signed Joe Johnson but he is not helping them win anymore than when he was not there. Despite what you say, the Hawks have a very solid and talented young group of guys (some of which I'd like on this team) but have not been able to make much use of it. Why? Because they still can't bring anyone in since no one wants to play with the team. They go back to the lottery every year and Joe Johnson has been inconsequental. 

As we speak right now, we're a better team than the Hawks and they have been below the cap for ages. Your telling me that you want to get to where the Hawks are (which would take years) and still not be as good as we are currently comprised? Doesn't make any sense to me. Isiah has done a pretty solid job as a GM and is doing a bang up job as a coach. He should be applauded rather than ridiculed by Knick fans who have a very short memory of the piss poor Layden era. We have the potential to be a powerhouse down the road like what Bob Johnson mentioned on Hoopshype.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

USSKittyHawk said:


> Good points, I think the Nets may have the curse of Bryon Scott, just like we have the curse of Patrick Ewing. I still think Isiah wasted a lot of money with some of these overrated players. His record for signing free agents is atrocious as far as I'm concerned.


i agree he has made some choices that haven't worked with the mle (vin baker , JJI, JJII) but i haved liked most of his trades.


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## 0oh_S0o_FreSh!! (Jun 3, 2006)

TwinkieFoot said:


> I'm still not sure what was the point you were initially trying to make in your first paragraph. By adding young players we are improving because those will be the players that will figure to be keys to our success in the near future. The pick that we will recieve in the first round will undoubtedly be in the first round (mean at worse 30 and not the 40 range that you predicted).
> 
> The Bulls are not that good and chances are their record will flatten out during the 2nd half of the season when they play a majority of their games on the road. Considering these young Bulls have been considerably mediocre the past couple of seasons down the stretch, I feel it reasonable to say that the Bulls may very well be .500 when everything is said and over. In either case, they are not likely to finish with a pick much worse than 20th in the draft.
> 
> ...



Ill make this short. the bulls arent gonna drop like you said, and if they are, well prove it. If we are better than the hawks we should beat them on a daily basis. If he is so good in drafting, which i really think he is, he ends up trading them away (see ariza) and getting a dumb crap player like francis. He even put frye on the block.


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## da1nonly (May 8, 2006)

I actually think Isiah didnt do that bad of a job with Knicks. Probably because Im comparing the season to last year, but the coach seems to be doing well


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## ss03 (May 31, 2006)

da1nonly said:


> I actually think Isiah didnt do that bad of a job with Knicks. Probably because Im comparing the season to last year, but the coach seems to be doing well


He actally appears to be a decent coach, of course, fighting for his career is probably giving him a little extra push. However, he can't be a GM/Executive or anything like that, its just not Isiah. Thomas wants to be that guy, but he's not.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

USSKittyHawk said:


> Good points, I think the Nets may have the curse of Bryon Scott, just like we have the curse of Patrick Ewing. I still think Isiah wasted a lot of money with some of these overrated players. His record for signing free agents is atrocious as far as I'm concerned.


Not a curse. They simply fired a good coach who got the most out of their team because Jason Kidd torpedoed him. As you can see the proof is in the pudding. Scott doesn't have as talented a team (the past few seasons), but even with the injuries his teams are competitive.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

TwinkieFoot said:


> I'm still not sure what was the point you were initially trying to make in your first paragraph. By adding young players we are improving because those will be the players that will figure to be keys to our success in the near future. The pick that we will recieve in the first round will undoubtedly be in the first round (mean at worse 30 and not the 40 range that you predicted).
> 
> The Bulls are not that good and chances are their record will flatten out during the 2nd half of the season when they play a majority of their games on the road. Considering these young Bulls have been considerably mediocre the past couple of seasons down the stretch, I feel it reasonable to say that the Bulls may very well be .500 when everything is said and over. In either case, they are not likely to finish with a pick much worse than 20th in the draft.
> 
> ...


the bulls actually over the past couple of seasons have done far better in the 2nd half then the 1st half...its more than likely that trend will continue due to the way the team is constructed(deep team that wears down teams with constant defensive pressure.)


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

HKF said:


> Not a curse. They simply fired a good coach who got the most out of their team because Jason Kidd torpedoed him. As you can see the proof is in the pudding. Scott doesn't have as talented a team (the past few seasons), but even with the injuries his teams are competitive.


i tend to look at lawrence frank as overrated because of this . He has an arguably better team than scott did (with the emergence of krstic, Rjeff and vince carter ...vs. kittles & k-mart) in a conference that is just as weak now as it was then , and the team is far less of a threat to be significant on the nba landscape, in theory they should be a title contender , but they aren't.


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

Mr.Educated said:


> Ill make this short. the bulls arent gonna drop like you said, and if they are, well prove it. If we are better than the hawks we should beat them on a daily basis. If he is so good in drafting, which i really think he is, he ends up trading them away (see ariza) and getting a dumb crap player like francis. He even put frye on the block.


The Bulls recently played a game against Dallas and the stats were revealed regarding there play in the second half of a season. During the 2004-2005 season the Bulls record during the second half was about 20 and 12. During the 2005-2006 that record sank to about 17-14 give or take a couple games. Neither record was that stellar from what I recall so that would suggest to me that things will not improve for them especially considering that they'll be *AWAY FROM THE BERTO CENTER RATHER THAN HOME THERE.* They've never faced anything like this during hte second half of the season and I personally believe they will crash considering there recent records in past years.

As far as Isiah trading away his picks, it has happened just once with Trevor Ariza. Name me a second time it's happened? Never would be your answer. This is exactly why its completely incorrect to make it seem as though Isiah does this sort of thing consistently. In either case, he managed to secure a 3 time all-star still in his prime at the expense of Ariza who was no longer a fit on this team. Personally, I'm not crying over the lose because both Jared Jefferies, Ronaldo Balkman and Quentin Richardson are much better. You have a very skilled GM, Isiah to thank for that one (no sarcasm involved). As far as Frye being on the block, show me the proof.


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

Da Grinch said:


> the bulls actually over the past couple of seasons have done far better in the 2nd half then the 1st half...its more than likely that trend will continue due to the way the team is constructed(deep team that wears down teams with constant defensive pressure.)



Like I mentioned before Da Grinch, a stat display on TNT recently revealed to me the Bulls dilemma. They have been getting progressively worse in the second half of the season and being away from home for the first time during the stretch for more than a majority of the year, hurts them rather than helps. As much as a deep team they may be, they have not utilized many of those guys consistently this year and I doubt any of them provides anymore than what their starters do. That would suggest they would not be playing at 100% despite how good a team they may be.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

TwinkieFoot said:


> Like I mentioned before Da Grinch, a stat display on TNT recently revealed to me the Bulls dilemma. They have been getting progressively worse in the second half of the season and being away from home for the first time during the stretch for more than a majority of the year, hurts them rather than helps. As much as a deep team they may be, they have not utilized many of those guys consistently this year and I doubt any of them provides anymore than what their starters do. That would suggest they would not be playing at 100% despite how good a team they may be.


whatever the stat you saw the was wrong .

the bulls have not been getting progressively worse .

they were 5-9 the 1st month 
2nd month 14-3
jan. 7-7

inconsistent maybe progressively worse , not really.

and over the last couple of years, its certainly not been the case . they won 12 of their last 14 games to close the regular season were 18-23 at the midway point 23-18 thereafter.

in 2004-05 they were 22-19 half way through 25-16 in the 2nd half of the season...and that was with curry leaving the lineup with a month to go in the season for heart troubles.

in both cases the bulls played more road games then home games in the final 41 and in both years their road record wound up to be 20-21 ...TNT hasn't done their homework on this one.

they dont wear down the stretch...what they do is generally have a stretch at or around the allstar break in which they falter a bit but then they get hot.


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## 0oh_S0o_FreSh!! (Jun 3, 2006)

TwinkieFoot said:


> The Bulls recently played a game against Dallas and the stats were revealed regarding there play in the second half of a season. During the 2004-2005 season the Bulls record during the second half was about 20 and 12. During the 2005-2006 that record sank to about 17-14 give or take a couple games. Neither record was that stellar from what I recall so that would suggest to me that things will not improve for them especially considering that they'll be *AWAY FROM THE BERTO CENTER RATHER THAN HOME THERE.* They've never faced anything like this during hte second half of the season and I personally believe they will crash considering there recent records in past years.
> 
> As far as Isiah trading away his picks, it has happened just once with Trevor Ariza. Name me a second time it's happened? Never would be your answer. This is exactly why its completely incorrect to make it seem as though Isiah does this sort of thing consistently. In either case, he managed to secure a 3 time all-star still in his prime at the expense of Ariza who was no longer a fit on this team. Personally, I'm not crying over the lose because both Jared Jefferies, Ronaldo Balkman and Quentin Richardson are much better. You have a very skilled GM, Isiah to thank for that one (no sarcasm involved). As far as Frye being on the block, show me the proof.



He doesnt have to trade them away if he isnt giving them the minutes thet deserve.

As for the frye thing, im not sure but from the reports at prosportsdaily they make it seem like it is, maybe they blow it outta proportion.

But isiah acquired francis when he was in a slump and for that to acquire a player for that type of money just because he wants his "backcourt" to work, is a dumb reason to trade for a guy who didnt even want to be here.


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

Mr.Educated said:


> He doesnt have to trade them away if he isnt giving them the minutes thet deserve.
> 
> As for the frye thing, im not sure but from the reports at prosportsdaily they make it seem like it is, maybe they blow it outta proportion.
> 
> But isiah acquired francis when he was in a slump and for that to acquire a player for that type of money just because he wants his "backcourt" to work, is a dumb reason to trade for a guy who didnt even want to be here.


Isiah never was responsible for the minutes given to his players until this year therefore your comment about Ariza is irrelevant.

As for acquiring Francis, it was a gamble that APPEARS to have back-fired. It was a calculated risk that could have been a huge bonus for us had it worked. Just the year before, Vince Carter was in a slump that made many wonder whether his career was nearing it's end. I recall there being rumors for him that so many Knick fans rejected because they had thought he was "washed up" like Francis. As it so happened, Isiah let it slide and the Nets acquired Carter for next to nothing. Carter resurrected his career and now everyone praises Thorn for his "genius" and all negate things surrounding Carter was forgotten. Unfortunately, things have not been the same for us but to Francis' defense, he has been injuried a great deal of the season and at one point, was actually looking better than Marbury at the PG spot. Who knows what the two could accomplish if they find that common ground.


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

Da Grinch said:


> whatever the stat you saw the was wrong .
> 
> the bulls have not been getting progressively worse .
> 
> ...




I stand corrected.


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## 0oh_S0o_FreSh!! (Jun 3, 2006)

Thanks grinchy. Wasnt sure bout that 1 either.


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