# Official: VC Traded to NJ for Zo, E-Will, Aaron, and 2 1sts



## MJG

*Vince Carter to Nets?*

From ESPN's front page ...


> League sources have told ESPN Insider Chad Ford that the Nets and Raptors are in serious talks about a trade that would send Vince Carter to the Nets for Alonzo Mourning, Eric Williams, Aaron Williams and two first-round draft picks.


----------



## butr

*This could be it for Vince boys, The Nets*

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=1948449


----------



## Mr_B

what garbage trade thats only a temp fix only thing that catches my eye are the two 1st rounders


----------



## CrookedJ

Works under cap:

Toronto trades: SF Vince Carter (15.8 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 3.0 apg in 30.4 minutes) 
Toronto receives: C Alonzo Mourning (10.4 ppg, 7.1 rpg, 0.8 apg in 25.4 minutes) 
SF Eric Williams (12.6 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 2.0 apg in 35.2 minutes) 
PF Aaron Williams (2.0 ppg, 1.6 rpg, 0.3 apg in 7.9 minutes) 
Change in team outlook: +9.2 ppg, +9.9 rpg, and +0.1 apg. 

New Jersey trades: C Alonzo Mourning (10.4 ppg, 7.1 rpg, 0.8 apg in 25.4 minutes) 
SF Eric Williams (12.6 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 2.0 apg in 35.2 minutes) 
PF Aaron Williams (2.0 ppg, 1.6 rpg, 0.3 apg in 7.9 minutes) 
New Jersey receives: SF Vince Carter (15.8 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 3.0 apg in 30.4 minutes) 
Change in team outlook: -9.2 ppg, -9.9 rpg, and -0.1 apg. 

TRADE ACCEPTED


Zo and Eric Williams both have 2 years left, Aaron 1.

2 picks would be sweet especailly if one is theirs (not Denvers) at least one will be Denvers.


----------



## Numbed One

If Zo doesn't want to play in NJ, like hell he wants to play here. His contract is uninsured, so at some point he could say he 'can't' play anymore, sit back and collect his pay cheques and **** over the Raps.

Am I wrong?


Boooo to this trade. If we turned down Shareef, how do we accept a deal like this? It would just shove Bonner, Sow and Araujo further down the depth chart which is moronic for a team trying to build for the future.

WTF.


----------



## schub

Here's a breakdown on the picks the Nets have:

http://www.basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=125330&forumid=36


----------



## speedythief

Eric Williams?! Could it be? Maybe the Raptors have been reading my posts for the last six months... but I don't need to remind everyone of my respect for OC (though I suppose I just did...).

Who better to mentor Araujo than Alonzo (should he not retire)? That's good news for both Hoffa and Loren, and Sow, and Moiso...

Aaron Williams is a banger who can provide some defence in the post.

But what makes this trade interesting is getting two first-round picks. Thats something to help us rebuild a team.

Hopefully if we make this deal, we can trade Jalen Rose for Glenn Robinson, or Nick Van Exel, or another expiring contract.

Then maybe send Marshall to Houston or New Orleans for a pick.

This is one of those out-of-the-blue trades that could be the real deal.


----------



## Mr_B

> Originally posted by <b>Numbed One</b>!
> If Zo doesn't want to play in NJ, like hell he wants to play here. His contract is uninsured, so at some point he could say he 'can't' play anymore, sit back and collect his pay cheques and **** over the Raps.
> 
> Am I wrong?
> 
> 
> Boooo to this trade. If we turned down Shareef, how do we accept a deal like this? It would just shove Bonner, Sow and Araujo further down the depth chart which is moronic for a team trying to build for the future.
> 
> WTF.


yup and what if zo kidney flairs up again then what do we do


----------



## CrookedJ

> Originally posted by <b>schub</b>!
> Here's a breakdown on the picks the Nets have:
> 
> http://www.basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=125330&forumid=36


Thanks, thats quite the stockpile!


----------



## butr

MJG you're fast. We need to be measured by seconds.

EW works hard, like'm. Speedy Loves 'em.

Like Aaron, but he's done after next anyway. Not bad.

Mourning is good for Bosh and Hoffa.

If he whines, he is very "flippable" come the deadline. Contenders can always use a guy like Zo.

The 2 picks are solid future value. I hope Rob can get 2 of the better ones.


----------



## Numbed One

> Originally posted by <b>Mr_B</b>!
> yup and what if zo kidney flairs up again then what do we do



Exactly.


I repeat, WTF.

How do we turn down Shareef than accept this? Draft picks are a crap shoot, especially when they're late first rounders. One of them has to be a lottery, even then I don't like this deal.

Maybe I have to let it set in. Then again this deal isn't done for sure yet, so many BS rumours.


----------



## speedythief

If a backcourt of Kidd, Carter, and Jefferson can't get fans to come-out and watch the Nets, I don't know what on Earth could. That would be an incredibly entertaining team. Except for the fact that their frontcourt is thinner than Bo Outlaw.


----------



## Mr_B

this won't NJ any better either this basicly make them a primiter team now only if they kept keyon


----------



## CrookedJ

> Originally posted by <b>speedythief</b>!
> If a backcourt of Kidd, Carter, and Jefferson can't get fans to come-out and watch the Nets, I don't know what on Earth could. That would be an incredibly entertaining team. Except for the fact that their frontcourt is thinner than Bo Outlaw.


Maybe they get Moiso or someone - we'll have to cut someone if this deal is true 3 for 1. 

IT would leave only A Dub on the IR, but 3 players coming back.


----------



## speedythief

> Originally posted by <b>Mr_B</b>!
> this won't NJ any better either this basicly make them a primiter team now only if they kept keyon


There's nothing that could make them contenders overnight, but a backcourt trio of those guys will be an impossible guarding assignment for most of the teams in the league. You won't win a championship on the perimeter, but you can still win games and pop crowds. These three guys could be enough to generate some revenue for the Nets until they move to Brooklyn. By then they'll have some first-round picks up front to help out.


----------



## Numbed One

Please, I don't want this to go down... send Carter into our own division for crap. :uhoh:


----------



## SkywalkerAC

you know i like those draft picks. sounds like a plausible deal.


----------



## pspot

Ya i dont know about this one
Picks are not a gaurantee
Cant see Zo wanting to play here
and Arnt Jefferson and Carter the same position, and also leaves NJ with no front court

did always expect to be disapointed, once the deal was actually made


----------



## CrookedJ

I like it too. It puts a lot of faith in Mo Pete though, lets hope he can stay fired up for a while.

UP front we're set Zo, Bosh, Williams, is sweet. Eric Williams is solid vet, not much Pt for him though - Rose, Lamond, Mo at SF. Does he get Lamond's minutes - likely.


----------



## Numbed One

If this deal goes down, the Raps HAVE to get rid of Rose. Time to pack it in for the season, we'd be done.

The only way I like this is if we turn some of the players into Jamal Magloire - but I doubt Babs would be able to do that. Why would the Hornets want Zo or either of the Williamses (or anyone on the Raps...)?


I dunno... blarg.


----------



## Numbed One

Eric Smith said on the fan590 his source told him to "expect this deal to go down."


----------



## pspot

Mourning is worth nothing, and we turn and trade him we wont get crap


----------



## Numbed One

> Originally posted by <b>pspot</b>!
> Mourning is worth nothing, and we turn and trade him we wont get crap



Eric Smith says he would think the Raps would turn around and deal off Zo pretty quickly if this went down, because he too felt Zo wouldn't be happy here.

But you're right, how much is he really worth?


----------



## pspot

Hes worth about another Eric or Aaron williams, so we would have a team full of frigin role players
If they could convince Mourning to stay until the trade deadline, he would be a great mentor to Hoffa and his value would be slightly higher
thats the only way i think of this deal
Weve gone from SAR, to Muhemmed, to Zo :uhoh: :sigh:


----------



## Ballscientist

this is called "super Trade" - two of the best players in the world will be traded.


----------



## Numbed One

Zo's banged up... sore hip, something else and a sinus infection (sign of a weak immune system - could be related to the kidney, could it not)... eugh, this is suicide. Suicide.


----------



## speedythief

If Zo won't report, I doubt Babcock makes this trade, unless he can draw another team into the equation, like possibly flipping Zo to Orlando for Tony Battie or something like that.


----------



## pspot

^ who's calling this a "super trade"


----------



## Numbed One

> Originally posted by <b>Ballscientist</b>!
> this is called "super Trade" - two of the best players in the world will be traded.


:uhoh:


----------



## Schilly

3 team deal involving Portland....Carter to Portland and Shareef to New Jersey.


----------



## speedythief

> Originally posted by <b>Schilly</b>!
> 3 team deal involving Portland....Carter to Portland and Shareef to New Jersey.


Wow, this keeps getting thicker.


----------



## pspot

Who cares about Portland were still getting leftovers


----------



## :TorontoRaptors:

The draft picks will be LA's and NJ's (lottery protected).


----------



## Numbed One

> Originally posted by <b>Schilly</b>!
> 3 team deal involving Portland....Carter to Portland and Shareef to New Jersey.


Where did you hear that or are you just speculating?


----------



## lucky777s

This CANNOT be the trade.

Even the picks are protected. We might not get them for a couple of years.

Mourning doesn't want to be here. And we don't want his uninsured contract. There has to be a 3rd or 4th team involved here. Or its just pure BS.

Could it be that Kidd and Jalen are also in the deal?

Weren't the Nets looking to GIVE AWAY Aaron Williams just recently.

Heck, we could pick up Diop and Wagner for Moiso and a 2nd round pick.

Why wouldn't we go with the Blazers deal of VC and Rose for Shareef, DA, and Ruben plus a first. That is 10x better.

I think I'd rather have Mashburn's insured contract than take Zo. Ridiculous.


----------



## mediocre man

I think he is speculating, as will I right now. 

I think Toronto is trying to pressure Portland into taking Rose. Just a theory though because let's face it. Portland's offer is better. SAR is an extremely good player that just happens to have a bazillion dollars coming off the books next year.


----------



## butr

> Originally posted by <b>pspot</b>!
> Mourning is worth nothing, and we turn and trade him we wont get crap


He is certainly not. I guarantee you can get a 2006 ending deal plus a 20-30 draft pick this year. 

The more picks you have the the better chance of finding the Zach Randolfs. and Carlos Boozers of the world


----------



## Numbed One

I hope you're right lucky... if this deal goes down as is... :uhoh: just :uhoh: 

I don't know what I'd do.


----------



## Schilly

Speculating but look at this...


Portland waived a player...Toronto Waived a Player...

Portland Trades Reff and Gets Vince and Moiso from Toronto...fills roster. 1 for 2

Toronto Trade Vince and Moiso gets Zo, and the 2 williams...Fills roster 2 for 3

New Jersey Trades 3 gets 1.

In addition Shareef sat out on Wednesday and didn;t practice yesterday, and is questionable for tonight...with a sore elbow that no one knew about till game time on Wednesday.


----------



## speedythief

> Originally posted by <b>Schilly</b>!
> Speculating but look at this...
> 
> 
> Portland waived a player...Toronto Waived a Player...
> 
> Portland Trades Reff and Gets Vince and Moiso from Toronto...fills roster. 1 for 2
> 
> Toronto Trade Vince and Moiso gets Zo, and the 2 williams...Fills roster 2 for 3
> 
> New Jersey Trades 3 gets 1.
> 
> In addition Shareef sat out on Wednesday and didn;t practice yesterday, and is questionable for tonight...with a sore elbow that no one knew about till game time on Wednesday.


So the hot rumour now is...

To Toronto: Alonzo Mourning, Eric and Alvin Williams, 2 1sts
To Portland: Vince Carter
To New Jersey: Shareef Abdur-Rahim

I'd still like to flip Rose and maybe one of those picks (the later one) to Portland for NVE...


----------



## mediocre man

It's official. I'm not sure who made out best in this deal.


----------



## pspot

For me, i would rather have a prospect then a non lotto pick

The way Mitchell coaches, adding two more players to the line up who expect some minutes means everyone gets no minutes, players are going to get so pissed off with this system
What if 7 or 8 players are playing well that night
eventually thats going to blow up in your face


----------



## speedythief

> Originally posted by <b>mediocre man</b>!
> *It's official*. I'm not sure who made out best in this deal.


It is?


----------



## mediocre man

> Originally posted by <b>speedythief</b>!
> 
> 
> It is?



Yes I just heard it on ESPN radio


----------



## lucky777s

I wonder if Memphis has completely backed out.

Surely a combo of Bonzi and either JWill or Stro would be a better deal for VC.

Come on Portland. Step up with an offer of Shareef and Nick for VC and Rose.

Hell, why don't we just do the Shareef trade straight up. That would be better.

Even Philly would be a better partner.


----------



## speedythief

> Originally posted by <b>mediocre man</b>!
> Yes I just heard it on ESPN radio


What is the final deal? Is Portland involved or what?


----------



## Numbed One

> Originally posted by <b>mediocre man</b>!
> It's official. I'm not sure who made out best in this deal.


Source?


I'm listening to the fan and nothing has been said.


----------



## trees

just caught a tsn update where they announced the trade, so i guess its official now.... bye vince


----------



## :TorontoRaptors:

Later Vincent Lamar Carter.

The day has come... and I am giddy.


----------



## Numbed One

Zo has a sore knee, hip, finger, and a sinus infection.

:uhoh: 

If it is a straight NJ/Tor trade :uhoh: 


Suicide unless Babs gets rid of Zo within a week.


BWAAAA NOOO


----------



## speedythief

Yep, it's done.
I'm waiting on the offical specs.


----------



## :TorontoRaptors:

> Originally posted by <b>Numbed One</b>!
> Zo has a sore knee, hip, finger, and a sinus infection.
> 
> :uhoh:
> 
> If it is a straight NJ/Tor trade :uhoh:
> 
> 
> Suicide unless Babs gets rid of Zo within a week.
> 
> 
> BWAAAA NOOO


Get over it... Carter's been a cancer.

I would've been content with the 2 picks and Eric Williams for Vince.


----------



## mediocre man

> Originally posted by <b>speedythief</b>!
> 
> 
> What is the final deal? Is Portland involved or what?



No Portland wasn't involved. Which is reall a shame for both teams. It would have been a better deal with Portland.


----------



## Numbed One

> Originally posted by <b>:TorontoRaptors:</b>!
> Later Vincent Lamar Carter.
> 
> The day has come... and I am giddy.



So what happened to the Knicks?



I wish that deal would have went through...

Chad Ford is talking to Swirsky on the fan, saying the Raps are in serious talks about Rose, too. Says Marshall could be involved going to Miami with him...


----------



## pspot

well if its done its done
the NJ better not be lotto protected or this hurts real bad

Hopefully Carter and Kidd will run into eachother on the court, be out for teh season, and we get a high draft pick


----------



## Numbed One

> Originally posted by <b>:TorontoRaptors:</b>!
> 
> Get over it... Carter's been a cancer.
> 
> I would've been content with the 2 picks and Eric Williams for Vince.



No it couldn't have, thanks to salary cap.

I'm not crying over Carter being gone, I'm crying over Carter being gone for THIS.

Nice sources by the way  


Why reject the Portland deal and accept this?


----------



## :TorontoRaptors:

> Originally posted by <b>Numbed One</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> No it couldn't have, thanks to salary cap.
> 
> I'm not crying over Carter being gone, I'm crying over Carter being gone for THIS.
> 
> Nice sources by the way
> 
> 
> Why reject the Portland deal and accept this?


Because we get TWO FIRST ROUND PICKS... compared to ZERO in the Portland trade.


----------



## schub

Picks are reportedly Denver and Philly:

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/breaking_news/story/263034p-225221c.html

*Philadelphia 2005*, protected 1-8 or 2006, protected 1-5 or 2007, unprotected

*Denver 2006*, protected 1-5, 2007, protected 1-2, 2008, unprotected.


----------



## Numbed One

> Originally posted by <b>:TorontoRaptors:</b>!
> 
> Because we get TWO FIRST ROUND PICKS... compared to ZERO in the Portland trade.


oooo a 20-30 first and a lottery protected probably... I'm falling all over myself.


EDIT: As I thought, Denver's and a lottery protected pick (well, 1-8 protected)... awesome


----------



## Lope31

Not sure if this has been posted 

I personally love this deal. I know it may not be what we were hoping but when you think about it, it does help us. 

With Williams and Williams we now have THREE Williams' HOW COOL IS THAT!? Other than that, A and E can come in and be tough, hustle players. If we could put a team full of blue collar hard workers I can guarantee you we slip into the playoffs. They will work their butts off to get us theirs and it's not like those wins are moving us away from a good draft pick because we have TWO other first rounders.

Alonzo Mourning is the man, he can be Bosh's big brother and bang around in the paint. Plus he is one of my favourite players of all time. Seeing him in a Raps jersey will be one of my most proud moments ever! Well, as far as Raptor related moments at least. The only thing that bothers me is that now we have another briliant center finishing his career with us, just like Dream. Why can't we get them EARLIER?

We also got rid of Vince Carter! The franchise is forever indebted to him for what he brought to the team and I think deep down we all love Vince Carter but now our team can get over that and move on. The season has officially started.

I sure hope those draft picks will be in the lottery. I don't know any details about them and I hope they are for this upcoming draft but even if they aren't this deal helps us out a ton.

Let the games begin.


----------



## EBP2K2

anyone know whether Raps will get reprieve for status of Zo's health?

hopefully Raps will have a clause in the trade that if Zo cannot play more than X number of games, then Nets pick up the tab for his salary or at least part of it.


----------



## Numbed One

I repeat, Zo has a busted up knee, hip, finger, and has a sinus infection.

All signs point to him being really useful down the stretch!

Awesomeness!


----------



## Lope31

> Originally posted by <b>schub</b>!
> *Denver 2006*, protected 1-5


Somebody just needs to go and assasinate the Denver Nuggets. :yes: 













Joking, moderators please don't have a fit. Especially you Lope, you dirt bag.


----------



## Numbed One

All three players coming to the Raps are NOT HAPPY ABOUT THE TRADE.

Eric Williams was described as distraught.

For hustle/role players, that is BAD, BAD news.


----------



## :TorontoRaptors:

Great trade.

I love it.


----------



## Sánchez AF

Wow NJ was the last team i think Carter will end... O well


----------



## Numbed One

On top of how ****ty this trade is on face value, the fact that Zo might not report/will be very unhappy sucks down his trade value even more, ensuring the Raps have to trade him for **** or eat his contract.

Babs, you ****ed up, **** you.


----------



## Ballyhoo

So...who won the pool?


----------



## :TorontoRaptors:

> Originally posted by <b>Numbed One</b>!
> On top of how ****ty this trade is on face value, the fact that Zo might not report/will be very unhappy sucks down his trade value even more, ensuring the Raps have to trade him for **** or eat his contract.
> 
> Babs, you ****ed up, **** you.


If Zo doesn't show up, the Raps VOID his contract.

Don't pay him a penny.


----------



## butr

> Originally posted by <b>Numbed One</b>!
> On top of how ****ty this trade is on face value, the fact that Zo might not report/will be very unhappy sucks down his trade value even more, ensuring the Raps have to trade him for **** or eat his contract.
> 
> Babs, you ****ed up, **** you.


no show = no pay


----------



## 2pac

I had told alot of of friends that Babs will do some trade that noone has ever thoguht of. Its bad for us in away because Zo might not play the rest of the season because of injury reasons. But then in the positive side Zo can help Bosh and Araujo develop into good post players because Alonzo in his prime was really good. But then i can tell you that if this trade is approved by the head office it will help us win games. BOOK IT. why? beucase Zo will give us the interior defense we need and rebounding along with Aaron Williams trust me not a bad trade really.


----------



## MJG

> Originally posted by <b>:TorontoRaptors:</b>!
> 
> If Zo doesn't show up, the Raps VOID his contract.
> 
> Don't pay him a penny.


Any info from your sources on the likelihood of him showing up?


----------



## Numbed One

Ugh... I don't know if I'm going to watch/support the Raptors anymore, depending on what other deals Babs immediately pulls.

I'm going to have to think long and hard about it anyways.

Oh well. At least I'll have fun burning my Carter jersey in the fireplace on Xmas eve...


----------



## speedythief

I guess Carter got his wish.
Enjoy the Big Apple, Vinsanity.


----------



## The ROY

> Originally posted by <b>Numbed One</b>!
> All three players coming to the Raps are NOT HAPPY ABOUT THE TRADE.
> 
> Eric Williams was described as distraught.
> 
> For hustle/role players, that is BAD, BAD news.


LMAO!!!!

And after BOSH resigns somewhere else next season, the raptors will be moved to St. Louis or Kansas City....

No way you guys will have fan support after Bosh leaves...basically cuz he has NO REASON to stay...


----------



## McFurious

I LIKE IT!!

I dont no why everyone is whining about this trade its a good deal for the Raps we get an expericened former All-star centre in Alonzo Morning, we get an good hustler in Eric Willams andAraon Willams (ive always liked his game great banger). Plus Toronto gets two first rounders to build around which means will have 2 first round picks coming into this draft and have two first round picks coming into the 06 draft when including our own. 

The only factor here is motivating Morning to play hard for us. 
Or we can use him as trade bait but I think a healthy motivated Morning can be a great thing for the Raps.

Yes the deal may seem weak on paper but with now Araon/Eric Willams we got some much needed strength and rebounding presence which we lacked and Morning has proved thus far into the sason that he can still play at the NBA level.

Good bye im sure you will be great in NJ with Kidd there to feed you the ball hell Kidd can make your grandmother look good but its time for the Raps to look for the future and thats exactly what Babcock is doing with this trade.:yes: 

P.S I dont see Babck being done he still has to move Rose and Marhsall before the trade deadline.


----------



## schub

So what's the latest on Carter's injury?


----------



## :TorontoRaptors:

> Originally posted by <b>Numbed One</b>!
> Ugh... I don't know if I'm going to watch/support the Raptors anymore, depending on what other deals Babs immediately pulls.
> 
> I'm going to have to think long and hard about it anyways.
> 
> Oh well. At least I'll have fun burning my Carter jersey in the fireplace on Xmas eve...


I'm guessing you would have prefered to have Shareef for 60 games and nothing to show for it in 2 years?


----------



## Numbed One

Zo is a ticking time bomb. What if his knee or hip problems are worse than we think and he goes down for the season in the next couple weeks? We're ****ed.

God forbid anything happens to his kidney.

This deal is risky, very risky, too risky, I don't like it.


----------



## butr

Ford said there were strong discussions regarding Rose on his own or with Yell.

As for deals with PDX, we don't know about anything except SAR and a pick, which is really a pick and mayb flip for another. 

Can we expect to attract top FA's even if we got crazy cap room. I dunno. I would hope, but we'd have the room before we were any good, like Chicago.

Need to be good or promising before you can attract them. SAR and NVE or whatever gets it too fast.

There are a lot more deals to come. I like it so far.


----------



## :TorontoRaptors:

> Originally posted by <b>Numbed One</b>!
> Zo is a ticking time bomb. What if his knee or hip problems are worse than we think and he goes down for the season in the next couple weeks? We're ****ed.
> 
> God forbid anything happens to his kidney.
> 
> This deal is risky, very risky, too risky, I don't like it.


Zo isn't the centrepiece of this trade for Toronto.

It's the 2 picks.

I can care less about Alonzo.


----------



## Pure Scorer

Rose is going to be moved shortly, and i think as soon as a 3rd trade partner is found between miami + toronto, marshall + zo will be gone.


----------



## pspot

Is it official about which picks we get?
because i think i would rather half NJs then Denvers 
NJ is not going ot have a front court, and if or when Carter and Kidd get hurt they will be awful


----------



## MJG

> Originally posted by <b>pspot</b>!
> Is it official about which picks we get?
> because i think i would rather half NJs then Denvers or the Clips
> NJ is not going ot have a front court, and if or when Carter and Kidd get hurt they will be awful


Denver, Philly.


----------



## SkywalkerAC

HOLY ****!!! done deal heh? Not the greatest trade in the world but I'm stoked about picking up the two draft picks. If Philly misses the playoffs we could get a great player in the lotto and our missing draft pick has been replaced. 

I don't give a **** about Zo, Williams, and Williams but they'll be servicable players. We've got some muscle and toughness now but I still see the lottery in our near future.

Two lotto picks in 2005 would be amazing.


----------



## Numbed One

> Originally posted by <b>:TorontoRaptors:</b>!
> 
> Zo isn't the centrepiece of this trade for Toronto.
> 
> It's the 2 picks.
> 
> I can care less about Alonzo.



I was taking the picks into consideration.

Denver's pick is going to be in the 20s, the other one is 1-8 protected this year...

Awesomeness!


----------



## pspot

ESPN is saying the Denver pick is only protected 1 to 3 in 2005 so thats a plus, especially when TO will be drafting between 1 to 3 in 2005 
and Philly's is 1 to 8, i bet they finish 7th worst

Denvers will be interesting, Seatle will have to keep it up, and Utah if they can start playing better hopefully Denver will slip a bit, but i cant seem them finishing anyworse then a mid pick like 16th at best. so that means we can draft some Highschool players and they will be ready to play in 4 or 5 years down the line...sweet


----------



## butr

> Originally posted by <b>Numbed One</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> I was taking the picks into consideration.
> 
> Denver's pick is going to be in the 20s, the other one is 1-8 protected this year...
> 
> Awesomeness!


What did you prefer? That you KNOW we were offered.


----------



## :TorontoRaptors:

> Originally posted by <b>Numbed One</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> I was taking the picks into consideration.
> 
> Denver's pick is going to be in the 20s, the other one is 1-8 protected this year...
> 
> Awesomeness!


One word... assets.


----------



## Numbed One

> Originally posted by <b>pspot</b>!
> ESPN is saying the Denver pick is only protected 1 to 3 in 2005 so thats a plus, especially when TO will be drafting between 1 to 3 in 2005



Denver's pick will be in the 20s.


----------



## SkywalkerAC

> Originally posted by <b>Numbed One</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> I was taking the picks into consideration.
> 
> Denver's pick is going to be in the 20s, the other one is 1-8 protected this year...
> 
> Awesomeness!


Denver's pick is a fine replacement, it should be in the low 20s. The Philly pick will be coming this year and it should be a pretty good one, with the Sixers struggling to make playoffs. These picks are awesome.


----------



## lucky777s

Has anyone looked at these guys profiles?

Aaron williams is listed as 6'9" 235. What the hell does he bring us? Just play Hoffa and Sow.

Eric Williams just signed a 3 year deal at 4 mill per year.

Zo won't last the season and can't be insured.

This is an insane price to get 2 draft picks that will either be mid round or we won't see for several years.

Babs rushed into this deal. He left better deals on the table prior to VC's latest injury.

Raps now have old broken down lineup of Alvin, Jalen, Alonzo, Aaron, Eric for at least 2 more years. That's 1/3 of our roster.


----------



## Numbed One

> Originally posted by <b>blowuptheraptors</b>!
> 
> 
> What did you prefer? That you KNOW we were offered.


Obviously no one know what we were offered for sure other than Babs.

I'm just upset and am going to have to think about this for a few days.

But a 1-8 protected pick and a pick in the 20s... blah.

I'm going to have to think about this.


----------



## 2pac

why is everyone whining about this trade. Relax. This helps us where we need the most help interior defense and rebounding. Even with vince he didn't give us much offensive help but we were still in the games just lost them in the end because we couldn't get that one crutial rebound or stop someone inside. Now that won't be a problem. We have a solid alll round team now, if you look at it like the Detroit Pistons before they got Rasheed Wallace, and styll they were doing well. --

PG-Rafer Alston/Milt Palacio
SG-Mo Pete/Eric Williams
SF-Jalen Rose/Matt Bonner
PF-Chris Bosh/Donyell Marshall/Aaron
C-Alonzo Mourning/Loren Woods

We have a good all round team and are deep in every positions. Eric Williams is a great, great preimeter defender and a hustle player same thing with Aaron Williams but a interior. Zo will be a great mentor to Bosh and Araujo development. I personally think we gettin better then NJ.


----------



## schub

> Originally posted by <b>pspot</b>!
> ESPN is saying the Denver pick is only protected 1 to 3 in 2005 so thats a plus, especially when TO will be drafting between 1 to 3 in 2005
> and Philly's is 1 to 8, i bet they finish 7th worst


The Denver pick isn't even a 2005 pick:

http://www.nba.com/nets/news/kenyon_040715.html


----------



## Numbed One

> Originally posted by <b>lucky777s</b>!
> Has anyone looked at these guys profiles?
> 
> Aaron williams is listed as 6'9" 235. What the hell does he bring us? Just play Hoffa and Sow.
> 
> Eric Williams just signed a 3 year deal at 4 mill per year.
> 
> Zo won't last the season and can't be insured.
> 
> This is an insane price to get 2 draft picks that will either be mid round or we won't see for several years.
> 
> Babs rushed into this deal. He left better deals on the table prior to VC's latest injury.
> 
> Raps now have old broken down lineup of Alvin, Jalen, Alonzo, Aaron, Eric for at least 2 more years. That's 1/3 of our roster.



Thank you lucky.

For a team building for the future this trade just means Sow and Hoffa get shoved further down the depth chart.

It'll help us into the playoffs maybe, but why??? It just means a worse pick, this team is going nowhere.

And I'm not very enamoured with the picks.


----------



## SkywalkerAC

Not a bad trade for Vince either. He gets to stay in the east, play with Kidd and Jefferson, and should get plenty of attention when the team is moved. Not the best team in the league but they still have plenty of draft picks to work with over the next couple years. With Kidd passing him the ball he's going to put up some good numbers.


----------



## :TorontoRaptors:

> Originally posted by <b>Numbed One</b>!
> Obviously no one know what we were offered for sure other than Babs.
> 
> I'm just upset and am going to have to think about this for a few days.
> 
> But a 1-8 protected pick and a pick in the 20s... blah.
> 
> I'm going to have to think about this.


[strike]Nobody cares that you have to think about it.

You have shown in this thread that you know nothing about the management of assets.[/strike] Making a big fuss about a situation that was unwinable for Babcock. 

He got us 2 first rounders... and now we have 3 1st rounders in 2005. Who gives a **** if one pick is in the 20's, it gives the Raptors ASSETS to move on draft day, possibly to move into the top 5.


----------



## Numbed One

> Originally posted by <b>2pac</b>!
> why is everyone whining about this trade. Relax. This helps us where we need the most help interior defense and rebounding.



But what is the point? We might as well bomb and let Hoffa and Sow learn. Even if we get into the playoff, we aren't going anywhere, it only means a worse pick.

And comparing us to the Pistons... :laugh:


----------



## Numbed One

> Originally posted by <b>:TorontoRaptors:</b>!
> 
> Nobody cares that you have to think about it.
> 
> You have shown in this thread that you know nothing about the management of assets. Making a big fuss about a situation that was unwinable for Babcock.
> 
> He got us 2 first rounders... and now we have 3 1st rounders in 2005. Who gives a **** if one pick is in the 20's, it gives the Raptors ASSETS to move on draft day, possibly to move into the top 5.


This is messageboard where you talk about things and share your opinions, *****, back off.

I know I was being a bit harsh and irrational. I said I would need a few days to think about things to calm down to get a better idea of what I think about this trade.

Jesus, 'Mr. Credibility', who do you think you are? You're only around here when your 'inside sources' give you bogus leads, I'm here all the time, don't you tell me no one cares.


----------



## SkywalkerAC

These guys should help us so this isn't really a tanking trade but hopefully Babcock can pull off a couple more deals and send us deeper into the lotto.


----------



## pspot

I guess it sucks because no one wants to play for TO
Morning definetely wont, sounds like A. Williams doesnt

We have way to many players now who will want minutes, and for all those guys who have been rewarded for playing hard for us, i.e. Murry, Woods, Marshall and for the guys who need minutes to develop BONNER and Aurujo they just got ****ed

I guess they could move up to a late lotto pick by trading the two picks

if Mourning can stick around a while he would be great for Hoffa

but at the end of it, i bet Mourning, A. Williams, marshall and Rose are all gone by the end of the season but for what, back to speculation and frustration


----------



## The ROY

> Originally posted by <b>pspot</b>!
> but at the end of it, i bet Mourning, A. Williams, marshall and Rose are all gone by the end of the season but for what, back to speculation and frustration


Maybe ya'll could send a combination of those players to New Orleans for Jamal Magloire?


----------



## speedythief

> Originally posted by <b>pspot</b>!
> I guess it sucks because no one wants to play for TO
> Morning definetely wont, sounds like A. Williams doesnt
> 
> We have way to many players now who will want minutes, and for all those guys who have been rewarded for playing hard for us, i.e. Murry, Woods, Marshall and for the guys who need minutes to develop BONNER and Aurujo they just got ****ed
> 
> I guess they could move up to a late lotto pick by trading the two picks
> 
> if Mourning can stick around a while he would be great for Hoffa
> 
> but at the end of it, i bet Mourning, A. Williams, marshall and Rose are all gone by the end of the season but for what, back to speculation and frustration


I think it is more the case that the Williams' didn't expect or want to be traded at all, not that they have a grudge against Toronto. As for Mourning, he shouldn't have *****ed so much if he didn't want to get traded. Not everyone lands in their preferred destination when they aren't the ones paying for the ticket (except maybe McGrady... Shaq... Vince... hm).


----------



## SkywalkerAC

oh the draft picks. i can't see philly giving us a pick lower than 16 and with New Jersey and Toronto both getting stronger it could be considerably higher. 

Who cares if Zo's insured or not? Certainly not me. He seems to be healthy and if he goes down, our owners have to fit the bill, so what. He gives us a very good starting lineup anyways.

We're now 15 players deep and have a few good rookies on the way. I'm pretty stoked.

Hoffa isn't going to get any time but his development won't be hampered too much. 

I'm just scared that we make the playoffs now but that's ok because if we make it, i really doubt that Philly does.


----------



## DAllatt

I love the idea of getting pics. The talent we recieve in return is odd. I'm really not sure how any of these guys will fit on the current roster.

I'm pretty sure there is more to this deal than what we know. 

The pieces of the puzzle just don't fit.

Can we flip any of these guys for magloire?


----------



## Numbed One

> Originally posted by <b>SkywalkerAC</b>!
> 
> Who cares if Zo's insured or not? Certainly not me. He seems to be healthy and if he goes down, our owners have to fit the bill, so what. He gives us a very good starting lineup anyways.


Zo has a banged up knee, hip, finger, and has a sinus infection. Not exactly healthy.


----------



## -33-

I wouldn't go out and buy your Mourning Raptors jersey...........

that's all i'm gonna say right now


----------



## slash_010

i thought we dealt steward and the 2005 first round for Murray and a second round
can anyone correct me..


----------



## pspot

If NO didnt want Vince they arnt giong to want ZO
I think we can wake up from the dream of Magloire, and maybe sign him some day

Zo will have value at the trade deadline, and package him with a pick and that could get somthing 
maybe someone like Nestrovic in SA, who they are not happy with


----------



## SkywalkerAC

> Originally posted by <b>Numbed One</b>!
> 
> 
> Zo has a banged up knee, hip, finger, and has a sinus infection. Not exactly healthy.


whatever. rest him up. it's the kidney that puts him at serious risk.


----------



## madman

Goodbye Vince, he did alot for our Franchise and i will try to remember you for that instead of the last few season


----------



## trees

> Originally posted by <b>Shaq_Diesel</b>!
> I wouldn't go out and buy your Mourning Raptors jersey...........
> 
> that's all i'm gonna say right now


I hope your Wright


----------



## crimsonice

my hope now is that the Raptors tank the season bigtime, along with denver and philly while I'm at it... 

I can't see us hanging onto Marshall and especially Rose... We need to ship him out as soon as possible.


----------



## Ballyhoo

> Originally posted by <b>:TorontoRaptors:</b>!
> 
> He got us 2 first rounders... and now we have 3 1st rounders in 2005. Who gives a **** if one pick is in the 20's, it gives the Raptors ASSETS to move on draft day, possibly to move into the top 5.


The Denver pick is a 2006 pick. The other pick is protected 1-8 in 2005. We could have as few as zero picks in 2005, although that's unlikely. We still owe our first round pick to someone, and I'm not sure what the protection status is. It's possible if the Raptors play better after the trade that we could end up losing our pick next year. Anyone know what the protection status on the pick we owe is? 

It might even work out better if we had zero picks in 2005, and 3 in 2006. That's Greg Oden's year.


----------



## madman

Hey just realised the Raps play the nets this sunday


----------



## trick

> Originally posted by <b>Numbed One</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly.
> 
> 
> I repeat, WTF.
> 
> How do we turn down Shareef than accept this? Draft picks are a crap shoot, especially when they're late first rounders. One of them has to be a lottery, even then I don't like this deal.
> 
> Maybe I have to let it set in. Then again this deal isn't done for sure yet, so many BS rumours.


let's just separate any *rumoured* possible trades for now and actually just comment on one that's been likely official.

we don't know if POR would actually bite with that trade. we don't know what else was on the table for babcock to negotiate.


----------



## kirk_2003

now... we have 2 choices package ROSE+MOURNING or YELL to the HEAT for Eddie Jones+Dorell Wright... Heard that from Chad Ford... very interesting deal indeed... :yes:


----------



## Ballishere

ROB BABCOCK SUCKS, TRASH HIS HOUSE!:upset:


----------



## pspot

Ya i kind of want to stay away from speculating again :uhoh: 
but i was looking at the Miami line up as well
and Wright, and Butler is interesting as well


----------



## MrTasty

> Originally posted by <b>Ballishere</b>!
> ROB BABCOCK SUCKS, TRASH HIS HOUSE!:upset:


Hey, you're from Saskatchewan?


----------



## onecooljew

> Originally posted by <b>kirk_2003</b>!
> now... we have 2 choices package ROSE+MOURNING or YELL to the HEAT for Eddie Jones+Dorell Wright... Heard that from Chad Ford... very interesting deal indeed... :yes:


I dont at all mind the idea of picking up Wright, he hasnt got to play at all in Miami, mabye Sam will give em a go...an we get rid of Zo hopefully too.. 


And wat would our adjusted lineup be with the NJ and Miami trades..?


----------



## trick

for the record, i have no doubt in my mind that babock's still on the phones tinkering with more trades until he's fully satisfied.

just that with the trade with nj, he has alot more to work with.


----------



## pspot

Mr Tasty thats awsome, i was just typing that in 
Trash his house....grow up or move to Sask


----------



## djmyte

I actually like Eric Williams. The guy has been playing very well lately and should be in our starting lineup once he arrives. He is better than Lamond and Mo.


But...


Two lottery protected picks and no cap space in the near future...can't say Im impressed with this deal, especially with the way our team drafts. Ugh.


----------



## butr

> Originally posted by <b>Ballishere</b>!
> ROB BABCOCK SUCKS, TRASH HIS HOUSE!:upset:


OK VC MVP


----------



## RickyBlaze

I hope Raptors can get Scalabrine in the deal too, Imagine two "Red Rockets" running the floor...haha


----------



## Ballyhoo

The winner of this deal won't be determined for a while to come. Really it will come down to how the draft picks turn out, and if Vince can return to his old self.

Personally I think Vince's best days are behind him. Yeah, he's been dogging it this year, but I simply don't think he is capable of putting up 25/5/4 like he used to, no matter how determined he is. I think the Nets might be disappointed when they realize Vince is now an 18/3/3 guy. That's decent, but not for a max salary.


----------



## butr

This will be my last post in this thread, because I'm not going to waste time trying to persuade you to like it.

Eric is a pro's pro.

Aaron is a little added toughness where we've been lacking. His deal is gone with Lamond's.

Zo will be dealt. I guaran-freakin-tee it. 

He may go with Rose and Yell.

The 2 picks are assets. 

This deal increases the flexibility for team-building and further deals.

This is not what this team is going to look like.

This group is not building for this year. Let their plan take shape. 

These guys are super on planning and preparing.

If you wanted SAR and a 1 and you are whining, fine. If you wanted Penny and Tim Thomas, you are an idiot.

If you wanted neither give them time and have some trust.


----------



## Damian Necronamous

What are the Nets doing? They are reminding me of the Celtics last year. They traded away Martin and Kittles and now they trade for Carter?

Anyways, they will certainly make a run for the playoffs now, with RJ, VC and Kidd.


----------



## DAllatt

> Originally posted by <b>blowuptheraptors</b>!
> 
> This deal increases the flexibility for team-building and further deals.


I agree totally. Now lets just hope they make the right decisions with the new assets.

I'm going to assume that babcock has fielded more than one offer for jalen, and he feels confident that a team will take him on with donyell, ZO or both.

I am actually excited to enter into rebuilding mode. It is far better than the stale mate we've been in for the past couple of years. I feel much better about rebuiling through the draft, rather than trading for expiring deals and hoping to draw in impact FA's. 

People who are ripping this deal are looking at the impact of the roster changes in the present, not the impact the changes have on our ability to improve in the long term.

I'm on board. This is a process, please be patient. No GM can turn a lottery team into a contender with one trade


----------



## djmyte

My only real beef with the deal is the fact that both picks are protected. Denver's projects to be in the late teens/early to mid 20's. The 76ers pick won't be high enough to land us a really good prospect and with our drafting history I really don't have any confidence that we'll be able to find a gem after the supposed top talents are gone. 

But, I am glad it's over with.


----------



## Phenom Z28

:jawdrop: :verysad: :verysad: :verysad: :verysad: The inevitable has happened 

Since I've started watching basketball when I was 4, in 1987 I've always had a "home" team. Not necessarily a close team to my physical location, but a team that I could say was *my* team. From 1987 to 1998 that was always the Bulls. After the dynasty ended and the Bulls became nearly an expansion team, I fell in love with Vincent Lamar Carter. It was an odd time in my life, fitting in in highschool, meeting new friends, [strike]banging chicks[/strike]. But I never lost my love for basketball. Vince Carter fulfilled a void that Michael Jordan left. Since then, Toronto has been "my" team in the NBA, my home team. We've had some dramatic times. From what could have turned into the worlds most dominate duo with the cousins, to finally knocking off the Knicks and coming one jumper away from the Eastern finals, to frustration with our franchise player. Whether or not the Raptors will continue to be my home team remains uncertain. But, I will continue to be a fan, never the less.


----------



## pspot

All the analysts on Raps tv are pretty much saying they expect more to happen with this deal and dont expect to see Zo ever in a Raps uni

They keep bringing up Mia


----------



## italianBBlover

The news arrived on the italian medias 3 hours ago ...

And what a news


----------



## Ballyhoo

One other intangible aspect to this deal is now that Vince is really gone, management doesn't have to worry about him anymore. If you look back at Vince's tenure, many of the bad moves the Raptors have made were aimed at keeping him happy. Things like signing Hakeem, over paying AD, trading for Rose, drafting Araujo, etc. Plus the things he wanted but management didn't cave into, like trading Bosh, and hiring Dr. J. He may not have been a locker-room cancer, but he was a front office cancer. 

Vince always resisted rebuilding, insisting on veterans to "win now". Now he's gone maybe management can really look to the future and start rebuilding.


----------



## Sánchez AF

> Originally posted by <b>blowuptheraptors</b>!
> 
> 
> He is certainly not. I guarantee you can get a 2006 ending deal plus a 20-30 draft pick this year.
> 
> The more picks you have the the better chance of finding the Zach Randolfs. and Carlos Boozers of the world


Or the Michael Bradleys or Chris Jefferies


----------



## Sánchez AF

> Originally posted by <b>Lope31</b>!
> 
> 
> Alonzo Mourning is the man, he can be Bosh's big brother and bang around in the paint. Plus he is one of my favourite players of all time. Seeing him in a Raps jersey will be one of my most proud moments ever! Well, as far as Raptor related moments at least. The only thing that bothers me is that now we have another briliant center finishing his career with us, just like Dream. Why can't we get them EARLIER?


Zo probably wont wear Raptors jersey


----------



## Slasher

As a Raptors fan I would love to say that this deal will help us somehow, but I just cannot believe that Rob Babcock couldn't have found a better deal.

The recent buzz in Portland was that the Blazers would be sending Abdur-Rahim and Derek Anderson and fillers to Toronto for Carter, Jalen Rose, and fillers. Sure the deal went south, but to think that the deal was being discussed tells me that the Raptors could have gotten something better.

I don't know, but it seems that this is just a short time solution to fill the Raptors roster with hard-working veterans.

Maybe I'll change my opinion if Mourning can actually do something, or if the Raptors can trade and acquire someone for Mourning, and lastly generate a good draft choice from the draft pick acquisitions.

Time will tell......


----------



## djmyte

> Originally posted by <b>SpeakerBoxxX</b>!
> 
> 
> Or the Michael Bradleys or Chris Jefferies



That's what is scary. With our scouts we're more likely to draft a Jefferies or Bradley than a Randolph or Boozer w/lower picks.


----------



## Sánchez AF

> Originally posted by <b>kirk_2003</b>!
> now... we have 2 choices package ROSE+MOURNING or YELL to the HEAT for Eddie Jones+Dorell Wright... Heard that from Chad Ford... very interesting deal indeed... :yes:


No way in hell the Heat would do that Eddie Jones for Rose maybe buy they are not interested in trade Dorrell


----------



## djmyte

> Maybe I'll change my opinion if Mourning can actually do something, or if the Raptors can trade and acquire someone for Mourning, and lastly generate a good draft choice from the draft pick acquisitions.


I can't really see any team wanting a piece of Zo. He has played fairly well this year but with his contract and injury history/status, no team in their right mind would deal anything worthwhile for him, cept us of course.


----------



## Sánchez AF

If the Raptors would picked Andre Iguodala instead of Araujo

Skip
Andre
Rose
Bosh
Woods


----------



## Sánchez AF

Speedy are You happy ???  You should Eric is with the Raptors now


----------



## ballocks

while i'm glad this charade is over, i firmly believe that this was not the right time to trade the man. in my opinion, you would almost have to be a first-time GM to consider moving a player of vince's stature at this point in time. you receive much pressure from fans, media, yourself, etc., absolutely, but you don't/shouldn't listen to them. i've said it before but i'll say it again: you don't make emotional decisions in this business. you can only trade vince carter once. now that we have, where are we going to turn in the event that none of our troubles are addressed? 

but like i said, i guess i'm happy it's over. at the same time, babcock has continued to display his management inexperience by not quelling further trade rumours for the fans. whether he'd have to lie in order to do so is irrelevant; this team is not healthy to endure yet _more_ trade controversy- it wasn't healthy to begin with, and is even less so now. we need some positive energy- not the fictional kind we saw against minnesota, but something new, refreshing and *lasting*. to not understand that this team is paralyzed emotionally at this point in time (having nothing to do with vince carter) is unacceptable (imo). i mean, are other trade discussions now going to make the paper? the toronto raptors did not begin with rob babcock; to ignore (or simply not understand) the recent, turbulent history of this franchise is childish.

the trade itself is decent but this was simply not the time to act. instead, you _wait_. vince's value has never been lower, absolutely NEVER, and while it could continue to plummet further (absolutely), i believe you should accept the chance that it wouldn't. trading him with the numbers he currently has, along with an achilles tendon injury to boot, is just unacceptable. he could get worse, but does anyone objectively feel that he would? i highly doubt it. 

i suppose i like the new attitude on the management ladder but rob babcock increasingly strikes me as being a kid swimming amongst a sea of adults. i don't think he adequately understands all the factors that play into his decisions. i hope i'm wrong about that- god, i pray that i'm wrong about that- but he continues to remind me of his older brother, whose failures have been well-documented. 

as far as i'm concerned, you don't trade vince carter now unless you write for cnnsi or the new york post. i don't mind the team rebuilding, i don't even mind the team starting from scratch, but you do it on _your_ terms.

this isn't a disaster, we could have conceivably gotten allan houston's contract on top of all else, but this is hardly (imo) a success. the return we received is not what i'm talking about- i wouldn't care if we had received even _less_ had vince been healthy and playing "better". it's just the myopia to make a decision rooted in impatience and public pressure that concerns me. 

it's just not the brightest sign for the future.

peace


----------



## pspot

If you think about it KMart was traded for 3first rounders, so basically it was Carter for 2 of those and the three players

I dont think anyone would trade Kmart for Carter right now, and basically thats what NJ just did

so the deal doesnt look that bad from that perspective


----------



## Sánchez AF

But what about from this POV 

We release Roger Mason, Mosio who i dont see much diference between him and A. Willams

And trade Vince so the final count

Before:
Vince, Mason Jr, Moiso

for

E. Williams, A. Williams two 1st since ZO probably wont wear Raps jersey.

In the end i dont think was so for both teams i just think the Raps could get soemthing better


----------



## speedythief

Here's another perspective:

Vince to the Nets.

Alonzo, EW, AW, Hakim Warrick, and Mustafa Shakur to Toronto.

Hmmm....


----------



## bigbabyjesus

When I first saw this trade on the ticker.. I saw "Vince Carter traded to the New Jersey Nets for.." and I was praying that it would be Richard Jefferson, and when I saw Alonzo Mourning, Eric Williams and Aaron Williams + 2 first rounders.. I was kind of in awe. I figured we could have gotten much more than that.

But after a while, I realized it wasn't a bad trade.. considering VC's value. We get two (assuming Zo doesn't come over) hardnosed defensive, rebounding players who are exactly what this team needs, and what Sam Mitchell would like in a player. Players that want to win, and will probably take over the lockeroom in a positive sense. Plus those two first round picks will be essential for our building for the future. The protection does hurt a bit though.

This is the first of a few trades to come IMO. Now we need to ship Rose plus Donny/Zo to Miami for Eddie Jones and Dorell Wright.


----------



## pspot

It probably does make us a better team, its just hard to swallow a big name for role players but hey hard work probably will beat talent alone on a lot of nights. 
I kind of see us starting to take a Pistons approach to this, and that worked out well for them. Who knows if they drafted Melo or Milic, maybe they wouldnt have won the Championship


----------



## Petey

> Originally posted by <b>Schilly</b>!
> Speculating but look at this...
> 
> 
> Portland waived a player...Toronto Waived a Player...
> 
> Portland Trades Reff and Gets Vince and Moiso from Toronto...fills roster. 1 for 2
> 
> Toronto Trade Vince and Moiso gets Zo, and the 2 williams...Fills roster 2 for 3
> 
> New Jersey Trades 3 gets 1.
> 
> In addition Shareef sat out on Wednesday and didn;t practice yesterday, and is questionable for tonight...with a sore elbow that no one knew about till game time on Wednesday.


Schilly, you are crazy. Is Shareff worth, Zo, Eric & Aaron Williams, as well as 2 picks? No.

-Petey


----------



## Crossword

> Originally posted by <b>Shaq_Diesel</b>!
> I wouldn't go out and buy your Mourning Raptors jersey...........
> 
> that's all i'm gonna say right now


Come on stop teasing us! I know you're good with this stuff...


at least PM me?


----------



## vanhill

why should we picking up people left over all the time?
Rose and Marshall
And Now,Even SAR. 
Trading the only piece of valuable in Toronto for Mourning,2Williams,who is going to support the raptors with no all stars?
Mo-Pete?Alston?Rose?Bosh?
I cant believe Carter only worth mourning and 2 late first round picks....
Can we just get better player in returns?
When i first heard about this trade with new jersey,i thought...wow..thats great,we might be able to get Kidd or Jefferson...than,i check the detail,what ?Mourning?Eric Williams?
I would rather keep carter and wait for a better deal.
It just doesnt make any sense to me.
He is playing like crap this year,but if we trade him for those new jersey players,no way.


----------



## Turkish Delight

I didn't get a chance to come online today, so I'm just going to say, I like this trade.
Let's be realistic guys, for VC the most likely deal we could have gotten would involve an average player that can start for us, and a draft pick or prospect. We not only got Zo, Eric and Aaron, but we also got 2 first round picks!

What is our main problem right now?
Interior Defense and Rebounding..
All three of these players can help that, and we also will have some young players coming in soon.
Good work Babcock!


----------



## djmyte

If we end up buying Zo out I will be pissed. NJ not only gave up nothing of real value(possibly two mediocre picks isnt real value IMO) but they (if it does happen) also got us to pay for their own mistake.

I wasn't a fan of Grunwald or his plan but at least the man never got worked in trades. Like I said, Id be very dissappointed.


----------



## Numbed One

> Originally posted by <b>djmyte</b>!
> If we end up buying Zo out I will be pissed. NJ not only gave up nothing of real value(possibly two mediocre picks isnt real value IMO) but they potentially also got us to pay Zo a large sum of money to not play basketball, which is something they obviously weren't willing(and were to intelligent) to do. Essentially, we'll be paying for their mistake.


Exactly. The picks are mediocre, and NJ wasn't really giving up much because they had so many, Aaron Williams could have been had for Moiso, Eric Williams is a decent player, but not in a trade for Vince, and if buying out Zo was such a sweet idea NJ would have done it.

Babs ****ed up.


----------



## djmyte

The two Williams's and the two mediocre picks I can live with considering Vince's value was probably lower than what most suspected. But the buying out of Zo I can't.


----------



## McFurious

For Rap fans who dont think this deal was good for the Raps lets look at it from Nj point of view shall we:

I got this from the RealGm msg from a couple of posters who made some real nice points.

NJ were the losers in this one

What it boils down to is that they basically traded: 

K-Mart 
Alonzo 
E-Will 
A-Will 

for 
Vince Carter 
1 first rounder. 

and if we can make a deal with Mami the trade looks like this:

Jalen + Marshall + Vince 
For 
Jones + E.Williams + Aa. Williams + Wright + Filler + Phillys Pick + Denvers Pick.

Isnt that bad.. at all.


----------



## butr

> Originally posted by <b>SpeakerBoxxX</b>!
> 
> 
> Or the Michael Bradleys or Chris Jefferies


And who made those selections? I think he now works for the Toronto Board of Trade. But who would want to look at a detail like that???????????


----------



## butr

> Originally posted by <b>Slasher</b>!
> As a Raptors fan I would love to say that this deal will help us somehow, but I just cannot believe that Rob Babcock couldn't have found a better deal.
> 
> The recent buzz in Portland was that the Blazers would be sending Abdur-Rahim and Derek Anderson and fillers to Toronto for Carter, Jalen Rose, and fillers. Sure the deal went south, but to think that the deal was being discussed tells me that the Raptors could have gotten something better.
> 
> I don't know, but it seems that this is just a short time solution to fill the Raptors roster with hard-working veterans.
> 
> Maybe I'll change my opinion if Mourning can actually do something, or if the Raptors can trade and acquire someone for Mourning, and lastly generate a good draft choice from the draft pick acquisitions.
> 
> Time will tell......


Where are the futures with that deal? DA provides no cap room.

What is +ive about that deal?

And seriously, I can't go on without Speakerboxx on my ignore list. Someone please revoke his mod status. He makes me want to throw my screen against the wall. Seriously.


----------



## Sánchez AF

> Originally posted by <b>blowuptheraptors</b>!
> 
> 
> And who made those selections? I think he now works for the Toronto Board of Trade. But who would want to look at a detail like that???????????


OK or the Araujos


----------



## butr

meh


----------



## butr

> Originally posted by <b>SpeakerBoxxX</b>!
> 
> 
> OK or the Araujos


You are right. Centres are made in a day. We all know all centres enter the league polished and ready to play.

:dead:


----------



## Sánchez AF

> Originally posted by <b>blowuptheraptors</b>!
> 
> 
> You are right. Centres are made in a day. We all know all centres enter the league polished and ready to play.
> 
> :dead:


Then its stupid draft the most ready center (24yrs) to put him in the bench instead of some young centers who can wait 3 yrs to be ready and when they are ready they are just 21 or 22 yrs old...


----------

