# Sticky, the official 2004 lottery thread



## rlucas4257

haha. Might as well start focusing on this. the wheels have come off this bike. we arent going anywhere. last year on realgm, we came up with the comprehensive draft thread in history, over 100 pages of info. might as well start one now. 

Luol Deng
Pavel Podkolzine
Romain Sato
Dwight Howard
Emeka Okafor
Tiaggo Splitter

I want to hear everyones thoughts


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## DaBullz

You want it sticky, you got it sticky.

Now if some other mod wants to unstick it, they will ;-)


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## rlucas4257

might as well be a sticky. we have nothing else to look forward to


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## unBULLievable

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> might as well be a sticky. we have nothing else to look forward to


That's really depressing:no:


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## rlucas4257

should i start "hyping" Luol Deng? that would be too easy. Dejer looks good to me. but we need to get this one right. as far as i am concerned, there is only one guy you can for sure win with, and thats hinrich. i cant believe i said that but the kid won me over. it should be an interesting lottery. and if we keep playing like we are, our pick is going to be very high. Emeka anyone?


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## GB

It's too early for this, and it says that the fans of the board have taken on a defeatist/defeated attitude.

Let it rise and fall with the posts made---don't sticky it like it's the consensus of the board.


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## rlucas4257

does anyone know anything about this kid at Arizona, the SF?


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## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>GB</b>!
> It's too early for this, and it says that the fans of the board have taken on a defeatist/defeated attitude.
> 
> Let it rise and fall with the posts made---don't sticky it like it's the consensus of the board.


might as well sticky it, the bulls are out of it. and it appears that Pax is going to have to overhaul krauses mess. its not a defeatist attitude, it is reality. we are looking at possibly the worst record in the NBA, esp now that Orlando has won 2 in a row


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## GB

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> might as well sticky it, the bulls are out of it. and it appears that Pax is going to have to overhaul krauses mess.


Your opinion.


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## DaBullz

I like the idea of users making a request like this (make this sticky) and us mods responding.

If this thread doesn't get much action in a day or two, it clearly shouldn't be sticky.

This forum is what we collectively make of it, including making suggestions like this one.

My $.02


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## Benny the Bull

I'll watch Florida v Louisville and try get some more info on Drejer.


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## Benny the Bull

> Originally posted by <b>GB</b>!
> It's too early for this, and it says that the fans of the board have taken on a defeatist/defeated attitude.
> 
> Let it rise and fall with the posts made---don't sticky it like it's the consensus of the board.


I agree. Just call it the Official 2004 Draft thread to begin with, and if (though more likely when) we officially can't make the playoffs, make it the lottery thread.


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## truebluefan

you did the right thing dabullz. That is part of what a mod does for posters. 

I look at it differently. We probably will be in the lottery. Just where we are going to pick from is another story. So it is not too early imo to talk about the draft. 

Now, I need to watch more college basketball! 

We need for rlucas to give us the heads up on euro players.


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## rlucas4257

occasionally ill post snippets of scouting reports I get. The most interesting guy is clearly Deng right now. Out of europe, the most intriguing are in order for the Bulls, Monya, Pavel Podkolzine and Tiaggo Splitter. 

I would stay away from the 3 HSers in this crop. Chiravev or whatever is intriguing, but sounds like a bit like a fairy tale. And Howard is most compared too.............Kwame Brown? 

Not good. I would also stay away from Andris Biendens (sp), NBAdraft.net has him as a top 5 pick, but he is really a Skita. Which is to say, he is going to be a real good player, but in about 5 years and in the right system. I am just not willing to wait that long. 

And of course we have the 2 UConn kids. Okafor and Gordon. ANd they are both great players. If we are in a position to take Okafor, and Deng is gone, then Curry or Chandler might be trade bait. Okafor plays with passion, has great strength, an offensive game, and a ton of explosion. He is going to be a very good player at this level, perhaps a great player. Lots of people use the comparison to Bill Russell, that might be pushing it. he is 6-9, 6-10ish, might be able to play a little 5, but in all liklihood is a 4. Gordon is damn fun to watch. He looks like an Isiah Thomas type to me. If he is the best player available, the Bulls will have to figure a sign and trade for Jamal is the best thing. the other thing about gordon, do the bulls have the guts to play him with Hinrich? I think it could work. but does Pax have the guts to go with a small backcourt?

Unfortunately this draft is very light on top flight 3s, the position we need most. IF Deng comes out, which i am not convinced will happen, then he is #1 on our draft board. No questions asked. But Dukies dont stay for 1 year, unless your Corey Maggette. But if he is available, he is our guy. If we are late in the lottery, Christian Drejer might be the guy. He is a Euro who did things differently. He turned down big money offers from Europes best teams to come play college ball in the US. I am not sure that was the smartest thing to do. He struggled as a Freshman with injuries, but has come along nicely this year. The other 3 outside of Deng is this kid from Arizona. I wont attempt to spell his name, ill just post a scouting report on him. He might just be the type of guy we need

and 2 last sentimental favorites. Romain Sato. Xavier. He is from Africa but moved to the US. He has a great J, plays outstanding defense, as a pro body. Reminds me of another player I liked last year. And Andrew Bugot. We dont need a 4. But this kid has it upstairs. He is from Australia, plays at Utah. He has a Christian Laettner like intelligence from college, but is both bigger and stronger. He might be a 5 eventually in the NBA, but is a 4 now. really a crafty kid. was the best player at the Junior World Championships this summer by far. 

Andre Iguodala, SG, Arizona 
The facts: 6-6, 200; 13.2 ppg, 10.8 rpg, 7.2 apg on 38 percent shooting
The skinny: It will surprise some to see Iguodala at the top of this list, but of the NBA scouts and player personnel people Insider interviewed, all but one had him pegged as a lottery pick. Why? One, he's a phenomenal athlete (think Richard Jefferson) with an NBA body (again think Jefferson). The difference between the two is that Iguodala has extraordinary court vision for a player his size. While no one is claiming he's a point guard, he's got a fantastic handle and great feel for the game. The 7.2 apg is surprising everyone and has led many to believe that he'll play three positions at the next level. The knock on Iguodala is his outside shooting, but scouts feel that it's starting to come around. If he continues this pace and declares at the end of the season, you'll see him in the lottery. 

Christian Drejer, G/F, Florida 
The facts: 6-foot-9, 225 pounds; 10 ppg, 5.3 rpg, 4 apg on 45 percent shooting
The skinny: Having Drejer at No. 2 will also come as a surprise. Drejer is a native of Denmark who flirted with going straight to the NBA in 2002. Had he done so, he would've been a mid-first-round pick. Injuries limited his production at Florida last season, but now that he's healthy and considerably bulked up, he's starting to shine. Again, the appeal is versatility and basketball IQ for someone his size. He's an extraordinary passer and draws the occasional comparison from some scouts to Toni Kukoc. He's a good athlete, has a nice mid-range jumper (though his 3-point shot still isn't very consistent) and he's also starting to turn some heads on the defensive end. Scouts see him as a point forward in the pros. Those are hard to come by, which is why Drejer has some buzz right now. If he waited another season and became a college star, he'd have a shot at a Top 5 pick. As it stands now, he's probably a late lottery to mid-first-rounder.


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## GB

This thread sucks.

:sour:


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## rlucas4257

then dont read it. its quite simple actually


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## jimmy

I haven't watched a lot of college basketball this year, but I'm going to start. So the only guy I've seen play is Okafur. Having a healthy Chandler and Okafur as the frontline would be awesome defensively. I'd consider this. IMO, Eddy is never going to become what we all thought he would become.  

Maybe we could trade him for something. This team has a aura of losing. They crumble under pressure and find ways to lose games. These team needs a winner. We won't make a run in FA this year so it has to come from trades or draft.:sigh: Trading away Rose and Marshall for JYD and AD didn't help our trade value either.


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## curry_52

Pax will be in a tough spot next offseason if the Bulls were to get another Top-5 pick. Do you trade it? Do you package Curry? Do you trade Chandler and begin rebuilding plan #10? Do you let Jamal walk away?

First, I cant imagine Paxson drafting J-Smith, a HS, though his scouting report from NBAdraft.net is sweet. Deng seems to be the obvious choice, and many say he can have same impact as Melo next year in the NBA if he were to declare himself elegible. 

Why would the Bulls be interested in Pavel? Makes no sense. I know Eddy isnt going to be Shaq, but Pavel isnt going to be either. And Pavel will have lot of trade value, so I wouldnt mind trading the pick.

Its December 13 and we are talking about the Draft?

:no:


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## jimmy

The Bulls are in a horrible position. I just looked at NBA draft.net, most of the early picks are raw, underdeveloped talent in Europe or HS players. The Bulls have had some of the worst drafts. I don't know if I want any of these guys. 

Free agency doesn't look any better. Who's a FA next year? KObe and who else? It doesn't really matter anyway. We don't have enough cap space and Pax traded for two guys with huge, long term contracts.


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## rlucas4257

Pax is in a precarious position. We should have been bad last year. That would have meant James or Anthony. But as it stands now, we wont be drafting any lower then 5. That boggles the mind with the type of talent this club has. That means there is a fairly good shot we get Okafor (if he comes out), who isnt a project and is ready to contribute now, or Luol Deng, who probably wont come out. Deng however would make me feel a lot better. There is one Euro to mention, Sergei Monya, that makes a lot of sense. Think Sarunas Marcuilones meets Jamal Mashburn. Gritty kid. and growing. but not in the league of Deng. too bad we didnt suck this bad last year. Too Freaking Bad


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## TysEdyKirkrthefuture.

I really like Deng and Iguodala a lot they could be added to the team with no changes but what if we got Okafur or Howard, do we trade them or do we trade Curry ( I am so opposed to trading Chandler) I can't beleive we are even talking about the BUlls getting a top draft choice how dissappointing. Iguodala is probably a lottery pick, I would say definitly but you never know if 1-2 more highschoolers or 5-6 more foreigners will make it. Deng is top 5 i think top 3 material he would be perfect for the Bulls. I can't stand the thought of getting Podkolzine (I don't care if he is good 7'5" guys are not fun to watch.) Thats one thing I love about Chandler and Curry they are big guys that are still authletes and fun to watch.


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## rlucas4257

tysedkirk

i dont know anything about Igoudala. i just have seemed to miss him. can you inform me about his game?


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## ATLien

Ismail Muhammad looks good


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## curry_52

Is Deng going to enter next year draft?

How long before someone post "He is a Dukie, stay away from him"???

:upset:


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## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> Is Deng going to enter next year draft?
> 
> How long before someone post "He is a Dukie, stay away from him"???
> 
> :upset:


By weekends end mate. by weekends end


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## Showtyme

I think one of the UNC kids is going to catapult near the top.

Rashad McCants is a quality player that can score and defend.... he might not come out. Taking an extra year at UNC (since Felton is almost a sure thing for the NBA) and showing that he can carry a team will do him good. However, he's probably the better player for the Bulls.

Raymond Felton might be a quicker, better shooting, more athletic version of TJ Ford. Mix Ford's speed and Francis's athleticism (but not necessarily his sick handles) and you've got what I think Felton is going to end up. Too bad we've drafted enough top-flight PG's and have what we like in Hinrich (I guess). Felton is going to blow up.

I also like Hakim Warrick a ton. He's not a hot shooter, but he's incredibly athletic, has a great defensive feel for the game. He's a 6'8" version of Okafor without the mental prowess but with more instinct. Too bad he falls between Chandler and ERob... but at least he's a huge rebounder.

It's hard not to look at Josh Smith, even though we've had our share of high schoolers. This kid is a serious talent... him and Howard play on the same AAU team and they run circles around everyone. The Hawks board sometimes jokes around that their AAU team could probably beat their NBA team. Smith has the ability to be a Grant Hill type. But we definitely need a polished player, and Smith is at least a year away from it. I hope he goes to college, gets some serious training at Mich State, Arizona, UNC, or Kansas (the places where I think he'll get best coached).


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## ATLien

Josh Smith committed to Indiana. It is either there or NBA for him. If he goes to IU, they will turn him into a big man. Which will hurt his NBA development, cuz he is a SG/SF.


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## GB

There won't be any lottery for the Bulls in 04.

Change the name to the correct name (lottery discusion
) and move it to the proper forum...


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## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>GB</b>!
> There won't be any lottery for the Bulls in 04.
> 
> Change the name to the correct name (lottery discusion
> ) and move it to the proper forum...


jeez, relax. most people want to talk about the draft. If you dont want to, then dont read the thread. No one else has complained.


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## Benny the Bull

I watched the Florida v Louisville game and kept on eye on Drejer for most of the game. Here are a few things I noticed, and things that occurred during the game

First half he got a few quick fouls and only played 2 or 3 mins.

Seccond half, played most of the game.

Not dominant.

22 mins, 3-7 FG, 1-2 3pt, 2-2 FT, 6 rebs, 5 asts, 4 TOs, 1 bk, 9 pts.

Hard to see how good he was defensively, but he always seemed to make on effort defensively.

I think he could impose himself on the game more. He certainly has the skills. Maybe it was the foul trouble. Maybe it was because Florida didn't play very well offensively. But Drejer was able to create for himself a couple of times and finish nicely under some pressure.

He is a nice passer.

Spent about 6 to 7 minutes at the point, which is impressive for a guy 6'9". He certainly has guard skills in a SF size body (height wise). 

Boxes out well when rebounding.

Florida's offense was stagnant, so it was hard to get a real read on how good his off the ball movement is. 

Just a few things I picked up. Of course, I'm no expert and it was just one game. But he looks like a player with talent.


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## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>Benny the Bull</b>!
> I watched the Florida v Louisville game and kept on eye on Drejer for most of the game. Here are a few things I noticed, and things that occurred during the game
> 
> First half he got a few quick fouls and only played 2 or 3 mins.
> 
> Seccond half, played most of the game.
> 
> Not dominant.
> 
> 22 mins, 3-7 FG, 1-2 3pt, 2-2 FT, 6 rebs, 5 asts, 4 TOs, 1 bk, 9 pts.
> 
> Hard to see how good he was defensively, but he always seemed to make on effort defensively.
> 
> I think he could impose himself on the game more. He certainly has the skills. Maybe it was the foul trouble. Maybe it was because Florida didn't play very well offensively. But Drejer was able to create for himself a couple of times and finish nicely under some pressure.
> 
> He is a nice passer.
> 
> Spent about 6 to 7 minutes at the point, which is impressive for a guy 6'9". He certainly has guard skills in a SF size body (height wise).
> 
> Boxes out well when rebounding.
> 
> Florida's offense was stagnant, so it was hard to get a real read on how good his off the ball movement is.
> 
> Just a few things I picked up. Of course, I'm no expert and it was just one game. But he looks like a player with talent.


excellent post. thanks for the update. I have only seen one of his games this year. he looks talented, but still a bit of a project to me


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## Professor

Paxson showed very little interest in foreign players last draft, and his "win now" mentality will likely steer him away from high school players, maybe even underclassmen. He was reported to be shopping the 2003 pick pretty heavily for veteran talent.

Given what we've seen so far, he's not likely to go for Josh Smith or any of the foreign offerings. Okafor, maybe. Deng, maybe, but he's only a freshman.

Look for Pax to trade down for a vet and a lower pick where he can snag a player with three or four years of college experience.

I believe Philly holds the rights to Milwaukee's 2004 pick. If the Bulls end up with a mid-lottery pick, Pax might trade down with Philly for its pick (high teens or twenties?) and Milwaukee's pick (low teens?) where he could get a couple players like Rice and Paulding.


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## ATLien

Drejer needs to assert himself more.


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## Benny the Bull

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> excellent post. thanks for the update. I have only seen one of his games this year. he looks talented, but still a bit of a project to me


I agree. Still a bit of a project. Another thing I forgot to mention is a couple of times he passed up good looks to shoot. Is it because he is unselfish? The offense was functioning well? Lacked some confidence? Not assertive enough? Maybe it was a combination of all four. Though I believe in his last game he shot 3-12 from the field, so maybe that was the main reason. However, he hit big three late to get Florida closer.


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## Da Grinch

hakim warrick, okafor and chris duhon ...these are it these are the only guys I want as of next year's draft ...and i dont want to be in position to pick the 1st 2


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## BG7

Sergei Monya SG/SF 6-9 220 Pounds 

~Hard worker

~Playas by the fundamentals

~Has a great mid range shot and solid from 3 pt land

~Solid 1 on 1 defender

~Excels in playing team defense

~Very speedy

~Runs the court well

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

~Poor Rebounder

~Cant create a shot for himself

~Medioqure ball handling

~Bad court vision



Note: Sergei Monya could be a better player at this point in time but all his life he has never had a good coach. Many say Scott Skiles is a real coach and that many of our current players will improve under him.

My comparison- Ray Allen/Peja Stojakovic

Why he is a perfect fit: Sergei Monya is the perfect fit for the Chicago Bulls team. He may be the missing link that this team needs. He would fill the small forward void and will help our defense and our offense. He has a great outside shot and that gives us 3 players that I would see on the court at the same time that can make the outside shots with a high percentage (Crawford, Hinrich, Monya) That will be a good option for when Eddy and Tyson are doubled underneath.


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## GB

> Originally posted by <b>BabyBlueSlugga7</b>!
> Sergei Monya is the perfect fit for the Chicago Bulls team.


The Bulls probably won't be in a position to draft him---he'll go lottery and theres probably a good chance the Bulls won't be a lottery team.

Maybe they can trade for him though. Butr after the past 5 seasons, most fans seem glad to not have to play the look ahead to the draft game.


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## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>GB</b>!
> 
> 
> The Bulls probably won't be in a position to draft him---he'll go lottery and theres probably a good chance the Bulls won't be a lottery team.
> 
> Maybe they can trade for him though. Butr after the past 5 seasons, most fans seem glad to not have to play the look ahead to the draft game.


we have the second worst record in the NBA right now, and we have played our easiest stretch of games already. There is about 3 in 4 chance the Bulls are headed for the lottery. Sorry to let you know this. 

Yes Monya would be a good pick. But if the Bulls doing start passing some teams, they are looking at a top 5 pick. If they drafted 8-11, Monya would be my choice.


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## TysEdyKirkrthefuture.

about Iguodala

he is a very well rounded player. Had a triple double last week vs. Texas. Great passer for a 2 guard very unselfish, outstanding authlete- definitly a guy that could be in the dunk contest, very big body, good slasher and ball handler, works very hard on the court, doesn't try to do too much he has very talented team mates and know how to use them, very good rebounder and defender.
The only flaw I can see in his game is his shooting, he is .250 from the 3PT line this year, but hasn't really taken that many long distance shots

Here is his ESPN scouting report

Scouting Report: A versatile basketball player capable of playing both guard and forward positions ... Can fill the lane, play terrific defense, and rebound ... Also a good shot-blocker and is productive as a ball thief as well ... A fine passer who can be an emergency point guard ... Does everything well except score ... Too small to post up and lacks the perimeter prowess to be a jump shooter ... Gets the majority of his baskets off garbage buckets and in transition ... An extremely talented athlete finished second in Illinois as a prep junior in the high jump, clearing 6-7 ... Possesses a terrific basketball body.


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## JGKoblenz

rlucas4257: I'm pretty impressed about how much you know about international prospects and I remember that you have been following Tiago for quite some time. I must say your analysis about him are very accurate. On a side note: The correct spelling of his name is Tiago Splitter, with only one "g".


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## GB

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> we have the second worst record in the NBA right now, and we have played our easiest stretch of games already. There is about 3 in 4 chance the Bulls are headed for the lottery. Sorry to let you know this.
> 
> Yes Monya would be a good pick. But if the Bulls doing start passing some teams, they are looking at a top 5 pick. If they drafted 8-11, Monya would be my choice.


It's no use talking lottery right now.

I liked the point the Herald made today:

_The schedule lightens up with home games against Orlando (4-20 overall), Cleveland (33-game road losing streak), Utah (1-7 on road), Washington (revenge motive) and Miami (1-11 on road) through the end of the month.

The away games don't seem all that imposing either. Detroit has lost four straight. New Jersey and Cleveland are struggling. Minnesota is 4-5 at home.

The point is simple: even playing in the pathetic Eastern Conference, the Bulls (6-16) can't afford to fall very far past 10 games under .500. They need to gain ground in the next three weeks and hope things improve if Tyson Chandler and Scottie Pippen return as planned in January.
_


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## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>JGKoblenz</b>!
> rlucas4257: I'm pretty impressed about how much you know about international prospects and I remember that you have been following Tiago for quite some time. I must say your analysis about him are very accurate. On a side note: The correct spelling of his name is Tiago Splitter, with only one "g".


Splitter is going to be an excellent pro. He is versatile. He can shoot. his post game is really polished. He has a great pro body and he isnt afraid to get in there and muscle people around. And he has the body to do it. Give him 2 years. He is going to be great. But he is clearly is going to be the type of guy that wont be popular in opposing gyms. he plays with a bit of an attitude, a little nasitiness. And I like that. And he looks like a California surfer dude. If the Bulls moved one of their bigs for a 3 eventually, Splitter could replace one or the other. I think he has turned the corner from a big 3 to a legit 5


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## thunderspirit

i think Sato is waaaaay underrated. i love his game.

Paulding is a better player than he gets credit for, too.

and JMSO, i think Darius Rice is going to be a good NBA player. i don't think he'll be a star, but i think he could be everything Tim Thomas was once supposed to be.

(actually, Tim Thomas _is_ those things so far this year, isn't he?) :sigh:


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## chifaninca

A few random thoughts....

It will be very interesting to see this years draft. Last year Paxson didn't have enough time to truly scout anyone. He passed on guys he hadn't seen and had to change his draft strategy completely when Jay Williams was hurt. So I think it's really hard to get a read on him (i.e. - he likes experience over potential, character over talent, American players vs. Euro's, etc...).

As for trading the pick, we could trade down, but I wonder if it wouldn't be to pick up an extra 1 to pay off the Bryce Drew trade.
Also, what can we really expect to get this year? We don't have a lot of big contracts, except Robinson and Davis to package to get a star. Most teams aren't willing to give up a young star in their rookie contract for a pick. And before anyone mentioines Battier or Mike Miller...stop now please. Realistic chances are a trade for Pietrus and the GSW pick in return for our pick (OK, I threw that one out there for Rlucas, but I wouldn't object to it)

I would love Deng. Heck, getting Deng would almost make another losing season tolerable......ALMOST.

Beyond that....Getting another PF or PG seems to obvious. 

I love this thread and it will be interesting to see how it evolves over the remainder of the season.

Final thought: I want to make the playoffs. I believe is Curry, Chandler, Crawford and Hinrich get a good taste of the playoffs they will be hooked. So, while I'd love Deng, I want the playoffs and an off-season with dedication.


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## chifaninca

One other note and this isn't sucking up....


The only reason to visit another site last year was to read Rlucas' draft updates and insights. I for one really appreciate his insights and am looking forward to reading them throughout the season.


Only one question Rlucas - who will be the Euro this year that you get us all hooked on?


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## andras

> Originally posted by <b>GB</b>!
> This thread sucks.
> 
> :sour:


I like it
stop trying to sabotage it :no:


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## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>chifaninca</b>!
> One other note and this isn't sucking up....
> 
> 
> The only reason to visit another site last year was to read Rlucas' draft updates and insights. I for one really appreciate his insights and am looking forward to reading them throughout the season.
> 
> 
> Only one question Rlucas - who will be the Euro this year that you get us all hooked on?


You know, I have a hard-on for Deng right now. He isnt controversial but I just love his game. He is going to be a heck of a player. the sleeper is not a euro for me, but it is an international college player. his name is Romain Sato. he is this years Mickael Pietrus. Great pro body, can shoot the 3, plays D, atheletic as hell. a little raw but the upside is enormous. He is probably going mid first round as of now. by draft day, Late lottery. I have some euro favorites. I like Nocioni, he is Curry 52s discovery. i wont take credit for him. But he is good. and yes, he is a FA. Sergei Monya from CSKA Moscow would be a great addition to the Bulls. He is a bigger Matt Harpring. 

As for Mickael Pietrus, the last 3 games, he has been getting more minutes and impressing the heck out of everyone. turns out i wasnt wrong. there is even a rumor going around that because of Pietruss recent emergence (he was hurt to start the year) GS is considering moving Jrich right now. Of the french kids coming up, there is Johan Petro. But he is a year away. and doesnt play a position we need. There are a ton of top notch European big guys in this crop. pavel is interesting. But not what we need. Splitter is Pau Gasol revisited. I really like his game

Chifanica. Thanks for the kind words mate. Its 7:10 here in NYC. Im in town for business. I got to run. I am catching the subway down to Madison Square Garden to watch Pietrus play now.


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## curry_52

Maybe everyone already read this article, but here is the link for "The Next Melo?":
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/columns/story?columnist=katz_andy&id=1656385

Melo 2002-03 Stats:
22.7 Points per game and 10 Rebounds per game

Deng so far this season:
14.9 Points per game and 7 Rebounds per game


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## Benny the Bull

Duke played Princeton and reportedly Deng played very well in the 2nd half. I taped the game and will watch it later.

That was a good article. It is tough to compare Melo and Deng becuase they have different roles. Also, I think Deng may be more developed in some aspects while Melo was better in others. Come March, it will be really interesting to see the type of numbers he puts up.


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## rlucas4257

Deng is a cog in Dukes wheel, but not the franchise like Anthony was. I dont think he will put up Anthony like stats. but the end result might be the same. I have a hard-on for this kid for the Bulls. He is going to be an immediate contributor.


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## truebluefan

What about Rice? He is doing an outstanding job this season at Miami. Been in college for a while, seasoned. Can score and rebound and shoot the three. I see him as being able to do what Prince does for Detroit. 6-10 222lbs


----------



## BEEZ

lol. U guys gave up on the playoffs in the EAST already


----------



## truebluefan

> Originally posted by <b>BEEZ</b>!
> lol. U guys gave up on the playoffs in the EAST already


No, not really. I didn't think we would make it anyway. But the east is so week, we could actually make it if we get healthy. 

That is why I brought up Rice. NBADraft.net has him listed in the 20's so he might be there for us one way or the other. We need a sweet shooting SF.


----------



## BEEZ

> Originally posted by <b>truebluefan</b>!
> 
> 
> No, not really. I didn't think we would make it anyway. But the east is so week, we could actually make it if we get healthy.
> 
> That is why I brought up Rice. NBADraft.net has him listed in the 20's so he might be there for us one way or the other. We need a sweet shooting SF.


arent you guys pick lottery protected?


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>truebluefan</b>!
> What about Rice? He is doing an outstanding job this season at Miami. Been in college for a while, seasoned. Can score and rebound and shoot the three. I see him as being able to do what Prince does for Detroit. 6-10 222lbs


I like Rice. He is a kid who I can see rising on draft day, ala Dahntay Jones and Troy Bell last year. He would be a nice fit. Depends on where we pick. If its 9-11 or something like that, Monya, Rice or Sato would all fill the bill


----------



## truebluefan

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> I like Rice. He is a kid who I can see rising on draft day, ala Dahntay Jones and Troy Bell last year. He would be a nice fit. Depends on where we pick. If its 9-11 or something like that, Monya, Rice or Sato would all fill the bill


I can see us at 9-11, actually. We could do worse than Rice, IMO.


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>truebluefan</b>!
> 
> 
> I can see us at 9-11, actually. We could do worse than Rice, IMO.


the knock on rice is that he isnt physical enough. this is a blatant over analyzing by NBA scouts. he is a SF. now scouts want him to be a bruiser? it doesnt make sense. Let players be what they are. Rice is a good kid who can shoot, is athletic (he is actually one of the few 6-10 kids out there who can really be a 3) and is super long. Id like to have him


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## rlucas4257

**copyright infringement is not allowed**


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## rlucas4257

**copyright infringement is not allowed**


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## rlucas4257

**copyright infringement is not allowed**


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## rlucas4257

**copyright infringement is not allowed**


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## rlucas4257

**copyright infringement is not allowed**


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## curry_52

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> Luol Deng, G/F, Duke


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## curry_52

Thanks for all the info rlucas!!

:bbanana: 

:greatjob:


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## rlucas4257

Ill try to keep coming up with all info I can. I want GMs from the NBA coming here to get info. On realgm, we had the greatest draft thread in history. 123 pages of opinions, scouting reports, mocks, literature. there was like 50000 hits on it. This one is going to be much bigger. Thats my goal


----------



## truebluefan

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> Ill try to keep coming up with all info I can. I want GMs from the NBA coming here to get info. On realgm, we had the greatest draft thread in history. 123 pages of opinions, scouting reports, mocks, literature. there was like 50000 hits on it. This one is going to be much bigger. Thats my goal


It should be. Things will pick up as the season goes on.


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## rlucas4257

If I can bring that here, id gladly do so. This one is being started earlier. I had some help there from Coldchi and Abull, but i am sure it will get some momentum as the NCAA tournament comes. My guess is 250000 hit and 200 pages. and its going to be good stuff. And I get back on the euro league trail after the new year


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## truebluefan

retrodreams if he ever gets any free time, loves to talk about the draft. He can really add a lot to the conversation. He had one at realgm before we came here a couple of years ago. Wasn't as big as yours but had the traffic, nevertheless. NBADraft.net might trickle down on this thread also as the time draws closer to the draft. We have two guys from there that do a nice job for us in the draft forum. 

I hope to watch the IU, KY game tomorrow at 11AM.


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## truebluefan

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> If I can bring that here, id gladly do so. This one is being started earlier. I had some help there from Coldchi and Abull, but i am sure it will get some momentum as the NCAA tournament comes. My guess is 250000 hit and 200 pages. and its going to be good stuff. And I get back on the euro league trail after the new year


Would need their permission, first I would think. I don't care myself. Good info and good posting is just that. I don't care where it comes from as long as they get (the site, realgm) gets the deserved credit. Which they will with us.


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## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>truebluefan</b>!
> retrodreams if he ever gets any free time, loves to talk about the draft. He can really add a lot to the conversation. He had on realgm before we came here a couple of years ago. Wasn't as big as yours but had the traffic, nevertheless. NBADraft.net might trickle down on this thread also as the time draws closer to the draft. We have two guys from there that do a nice job for us in the draft forum.
> 
> I hope to watch the IU, KY game tomorrow at 11AM.


I saw the NBAdraft.net guy on the draft forum here. This is one aspect of this board that I do like much better then realgm. Realgm is basically the Bulls, the Knicks, and thats it. This one is a little more complete. but isnt MatthewMaurer a bit of a hard ***? It always seems like he is mixing it up with someone. Anyway, his input would be great. And I would love to hear Retros thoughts. 

BTW, I think this crop isnt going to be very good. Howard doesnt interest me in the least bit. and he might be the number one pick. I wouldnt take him at 8, let alone 1. Okafor is a true game changer as is Deng. Bugot might be in a year or 2. Gordon is very good, but not something we want. the X factor for this crop is Pavel. I have seen this kid play, and he has skills believe it or not. The question on him is going to be physical for him. Does he have the stamina? Can he hold up over 82 games? He has touch, moves and skills. If he turns out to be the next Ming, then this draft wont be as bad as originially thought. though i dont think he is as ready as Ming was


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## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>truebluefan</b>!
> 
> 
> Would need their permission, first I would think. I don't care myself. Good info and good posting is just that. I don't care where it comes from as long as they get (the site, realgm) gets the deserved credit. Which they will with us.


No No No. What I meant is that I am going to bring a comprehensive draft report to this site for this upcoming draft.


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## truebluefan

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> No No No. What I meant is that I am going to bring a comprehensive draft report to this site for this upcoming draft.


Oh, cool.


----------



## truebluefan

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> I saw the NBAdraft.net guy on the draft forum here. This is one aspect of this board that I do like much better then realgm. Realgm is basically the Bulls, the Knicks, and thats it. This one is a little more complete. but isnt MatthewMaurer a bit of a hard ***? It always seems like he is mixing it up with someone. Anyway, his input would be great. And I would love to hear Retros thoughts.
> 
> BTW, I think this crop isnt going to be very good. Howard doesnt interest me in the least bit. and he might be the number one pick. I wouldnt take him at 8, let alone 1. Okafor is a true game changer as is Deng. Bugot might be in a year or 2. Gordon is very good, but not something we want. the X factor for this crop is Pavel. I have seen this kid play, and he has skills believe it or not. The question on him is going to be physical for him. Does he have the stamina? Can he hold up over 82 games? He has touch, moves and skills. If he turns out to be the next Ming, then this draft wont be as bad as originially thought. though i dont think he is as ready as Ming was


Nice points. I agree about Gordon. He is a nice player but we need someone with more height. We really, really need a SF. 

Pavel will play in this league, no doubt.


----------



## chifaninca

While I love the draft talk as well, I can't help but think this might be the year that we trade a high draft pick and say E-Rob, for an established player who can play the three. I don't know who will be available but I think that, unless there are some hidden gems and/or Deng declares, there aren't going to be many guys who fill our needs.

Rlucas.....can you elaborate on why you have such good insights on the European prospects? 

Also, can you post your top 3 SF prospects today and where they would be drafted if the draft were held today?


----------



## curry_52

Do you think this players could co-exist on the floor???

C Curry
PF Chandler
SF Deng
SG Crawford
PG Hinrich

With Linton and Jefferies gone this offseason, Pax should look at bringing Nocioni. 
Wesley Person is another guy we should consider, if we cant snag a good shooter in the NBA Draft. Anyone knows about a Peja type shooter that could enter in next year draft?


----------



## rynobot

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> Ill try to keep coming up with all info I can. I want GMs from the NBA coming here to get info. On realgm, we had the greatest draft thread in history. 123 pages of opinions, scouting reports, mocks, literature. there was like 50000 hits on it. This one is going to be much bigger. Thats my goal


Rllucas, if you are going to copy and paste exactly what ESPN Insider says you should atleast give them credit for it.
\


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## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>chifaninca</b>!
> While I love the draft talk as well, I can't help but think this might be the year that we trade a high draft pick and say E-Rob, for an established player who can play the three. I don't know who will be available but I think that, unless there are some hidden gems and/or Deng declares, there aren't going to be many guys who fill our needs.
> 
> Rlucas.....can you elaborate on why you have such good insights on the European prospects?
> 
> Also, can you post your top 3 SF prospects today and where they would be drafted if the draft were held today?


My top 3 is going to be different then most peoples top 3. My question is, do you want top 3 in terms of what they can do next year or in 5 years? 2 different things. 

In terms of production right away
1. Luol Deng
2. Luol Deng
3. Luol Deng 

Ok just kidding. 
1. Luol Deng
2. Sergei Monya
3. Christian Drejer/Darius Rice

Now in terms of long term potential
1. Luol Deng
2. Ivan Chriaevev (I havent seen him play, Im going by word of mouth)
3. Josh Smith

Honorable mentions Romain Sato, Viktor Khyrapa, Hakim Warrick, Vladimir Vereemenko

I hope this helps

I just got back from watching Deng at MSG this afternoon against Texas. While he wont put up Carmello like stats in the NBA on day one, I think he actually might be a more complete player at this time last year. Its close. I thought Syracuse kind of hid Anthonys defensive inadequacies in the zone last year, but Deng can defend. He is a little more explosive, a little longer. His upside might be greater. But Anthony is the most polished offensive rookie to come into the NBA since Tim Duncan so that says something. Deng is our man.


----------



## truebluefan

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> My top 3 is going to be different then most peoples top 3. My question is, do you want top 3 in terms of what they can do next year or in 5 years? 2 different things.
> 
> In terms of production right away
> 1. Luol Deng
> 2. Luol Deng
> 3. Luol Deng
> 
> Ok just kidding.
> 1. Luol Deng
> 2. Sergei Monya
> 3. Christian Drejer/Darius Rice
> 
> Now in terms of long term potential
> 1. Luol Deng
> 2. Ivan Chriaevev (I havent seen him play, Im going by word of mouth)
> 3. Josh Smith
> 
> Honorable mentions Romain Sato, Viktor Khyrapa, Hakim Warrick, Vladimir Vereemenko
> 
> I hope this helps
> 
> I just got back from watching Deng at MSG this afternoon against Texas. While he wont put up Carmello like stats in the NBA on day one, I think he actually might be a more complete player at this time last year. Its close. I thought Syracuse kind of hid Anthonys defensive inadequacies in the zone last year, but Deng can defend. He is a little more explosive, a little longer. His upside might be greater. But Anthony is the most polished offensive rookie to come into the NBA since Tim Duncan so that says something. Deng is our man.


With your top three, we can't go wrong imo. Answer to your question is next year and for many years to come after that. 

I watched Deng today. Of course it is just one game. He had a good first half, but to me he does not seem all that quick. I see him make moves in the lane and he seems a tad slow. Was it just me? Am i wrong, or was Texas defenders quick? 

But the again, it was just one game and a blow out to boot. 

Do you think Josh smith can come in and do what James has done? That would be the question.


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> Do you think this players could co-exist on the floor???
> 
> C Curry
> PF Chandler
> SF Deng
> SG Crawford
> PG Hinrich
> 
> With Linton and Jefferies gone this offseason, Pax should look at bringing Nocioni.
> Wesley Person is another guy we should consider, if we cant snag a good shooter in the NBA Draft. Anyone knows about a Peja type shooter that could enter in next year draft?


in 3 years, the best players of this bunch will be Deng. That isnt an indictment on the other 4, it just goes to show how great Deng will be. If Deng can smooth out his long range jumper some, and it looks alot better now then it did in HS, this is a fearsome starting 5. 

As for pure sharp shooters in this crop, Darius Rice? he has a nice J, im not sure you would call him a sharp shooter though. THere is a 3 at Vanderbilt Matt Freje who is pretty good outside. Monya doesnt base his game around being a good 3 point shooter, but he is. Worth a look

I am with you, if the Bulls want an answer right now to all their 3 problems, sign Nocioni. His game is nothing short of dominant so far in the euro league. They look like a lock for the semis atleast and he is just putting that team on his back. And Tiaggo Splitter seems to grow with each and every game


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>truebluefan</b>!
> 
> 
> With your top three, we can't go wrong imo. Answer to your question is next year and for many years to come after that.
> 
> I watched Deng today. Of course it is just one game. He had a good first half, but to me he does not seem all that quick. I see him make moves in the lane and he seems a tad slow. Was it just me? Am i wrong, or was Texas defenders quick?
> 
> But the again, it was just one game and a blow out to boot.
> 
> Do you think Josh smith can come in and do what James has done? That would be the question.


You know, the person I went to the game with said the exact same thing about Deng. But what was interesting was that he was still getting by his guy without looking all that fast. Some guys just have that deceptive speed. I think that might exemplify him. It was such a lopsided game. with 7 minutes to go, i literally stopped taking notes, it was your basic YMCA game at that point. But Deng did what he had to do to solidify his standing with me in the first half of this game.

Josh Smith. I have seen tape. Recent tape. No doubt, he has skills. But it is hard for me to tell. I dont think he is at James level. And the thing I keep hearing is that his confidence really comes and goes. But he has a good to great game. But I have to admit, I am not good enough at scouting to be able to translate a HS kids game to the pros. I feel pretty good I can tell a Pro prospect in HS. But whether it will take him a year or 5 to make it, im just not that good. For instance, I thought Chandler would be an allstar last year. He wasnt. And I thought both Chandler and Curry were far ahead of Amare, and they clearly are actually behind him. So I am not the guy to ask about that. But I wouldnt cry if we picked Smith. I just woudnt be predicting playoffs for us if he gets extensive minutes from day one


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## rlucas4257

this is for Curry 52

Here is a kid that could help the Bulls today. And he went undrafted last year

http://www.nba.com/draft2002/profiles/arvydas_macijauskas.html

He just had arguably the greatest euroleague game ever this week. 40 pts. 6-6 from downtown, This kid can shoot the rock. Think Veshon Lenard.


----------



## curry_52

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> this is for Curry 52
> 
> Here is a kid that could help the Bulls today. And he went undrafted last year
> 
> http://www.nba.com/draft2002/profiles/arvydas_macijauskas.html
> 
> He just had arguably the greatest euroleague game ever this week. 40 pts. 6-6 from downtown, This kid can shoot the rock. Think Veshon Lenard.


Mmmm...it says Draft 2002. Was this guy undrafted?? Interesting, and he is a lefty, same as Toni Kukoc


----------



## curry_52

Do you know anything about Gai Deng and Ajou Deng??


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> Do you know anything about Gai Deng and Ajou Deng??


They are related to Luol Deng I believe? Other then that, I dont know too much about them

Here is name from the french league to watch. Tahirou Sani. He is a year away, but by next year, he, Johan Petro and Yi-Jianlin are going to be the hottest thing since slice bread. They may declare this year but next year would be better.


----------



## Benny the Bull

I've seen Deng 3 times now. The only game he really was dominant wasin the 2nd half against Princeton. He was very impressive. Here are some things I have noticed about Deng:

Always attempts to play defense. I think he has the potential to be a very good defender. While people have said that he doesn't seem to be very quick or athletic, his lateral quickness seems very good. Also, his arms are long.

He can put the ball to the floor with ease. He also seems to be able to go left or right when driving.

He can finish well around the basket. He can take contact and finish, which is good because I think he can still get stronger. He is 6'8", 220 lbs but has really broad shoulders.

When he knows he has opponents around him, he boxes out well. 

Doesn't make many mistakes. In the 3 games I've seen him play, I don't think he has forced one shot. This is the thing that stood out most for me. Just seems to take the right option most times.

His main weakness is outside shooting. I don't know if he has NBA 3pt range yet. In saying that, his shooting from college 3pt line is good.

Rlucas mentioned he very deceptively quick. I think that's right. He almost seems to be able to turn on the jets when he wants to. 

In terms of his athletic ability and quickness, he is still only 18 and sometimes these guys are still growing into their bodies. Sometimes it takes a while to get their coordination right. It could be the case with Deng.

From what I've seen, he's very impressive. At this stage, if we have the chance to pick him in the draft, he would be my pick right now, based on what we need and what he can offer.

If we have a lottery pick, I think you can basically rule out us taking any high school players, unless they have the ability to contribute like James or Stoudamire have in their first seasons.


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>Benny the Bull</b>!
> I've seen Deng 3 times now. The only game he really was dominant wasin the 2nd half against Princeton. He was very impressive. Here are some things I have noticed about Deng:
> 
> Always attempts to play defense. I think he has the potential to be a very good defender. While people have said that he doesn't seem to be very quick or athletic, his lateral quickness seems very good. Also, his arms are long.
> 
> He can put the ball to the floor with ease. He also seems to be able to go left or right when driving.
> 
> He can finish well around the basket. He can take contact and finish, which is good because I think he can still get stronger. He is 6'8", 220 lbs but has really broad shoulders.
> 
> When he knows he has opponents around him, he boxes out well.
> 
> Doesn't make many mistakes. In the 3 games I've seen him play, I don't think he has forced one shot. This is the thing that stood out most for me. Just seems to take the right option most times.
> 
> His main weakness is outside shooting. I don't know if he has NBA 3pt range yet. In saying that, his shooting from college 3pt line is good.
> 
> Rlucas mentioned he very deceptively quick. I think that's right. He almost seems to be able to turn on the jets when he wants to.
> 
> In terms of his athletic ability and quickness, he is still only 18 and sometimes these guys are still growing into their bodies. Sometimes it takes a while to get their coordination right. It could be the case with Deng.
> 
> From what I've seen, he's very impressive. At this stage, if we have the chance to pick him in the draft, he would be my pick right now, based on what we need and what he can offer.
> 
> If we have a lottery pick, I think you can basically rule out us taking any high school players, unless they have the ability to contribute like James or Stoudamire have in their first seasons.


Someone on PM asked me to make a Deng comparison. I came up with one guy after much thought. He isnt Carmello or Grant Hill. But I go way back into the archives. He really is Len Bias. Forget the death and the drugs etc, but his game is really Len Bias like. Bias made some thinks look easy. Had he played in the NBA, he was going to be a Hall of Famer. Dengs game is similar.


----------



## Benny the Bull

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> Someone on PM asked me to make a Deng comparison. I came up with one guy after much thought. He isnt Carmello or Grant Hill. But I go way back into the archives. He really is Len Bias. Forget the death and the drugs etc, but his game is really Len Bias like. Bias made some thinks look easy. Had he played in the NBA, he was going to be a Hall of Famer. Dengs game is similar.


I never saw Bias play, but know the story. Based on your description of Bias, it could be a very good comparison. Deng's game doesn't seem effortless, but he make things look easy. Understated athletic ability.


----------



## truebluefan

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> Someone on PM asked me to make a Deng comparison. I came up with one guy after much thought. He isnt Carmello or Grant Hill. But I go way back into the archives. He really is Len Bias. Forget the death and the drugs etc, but his game is really Len Bias like. Bias made some thinks look easy. Had he played in the NBA, he was going to be a Hall of Famer. Dengs game is similar.


if he is half as good as bias was, he will do fine. 

Speaking about Bias, if he had not been so stupid, imagine what that boston franchise would have been like!! Instead of talking about the Bulls and the two three-peats, you would be talking about the run the Celtics made.


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>truebluefan</b>!
> 
> 
> if he is half as good as bias was, he will do fine.
> 
> Speaking about Bias, if he had not been so stupid, imagine what that boston franchise would have been like!! Instead of talking about the Bulls and the two three-peats, you would be talking about the run the Celtics made.


If that horrible thing wouldnt have happened, the Celtics certainly would have won atleast one more title in the 80s, likely 2. And a healthy Len Bias and Reggie Lewis might have stolen One title from the first Bulls 3 peat. Len Bias was a world beater. I am not saying Deng is that good, but their is so many similarities that it is crazy. Both were 6-8 220, broad shouldered, athletic versatile, strong underneath. Deng is starring on a loaded team, Bias did the same at Maryland as a freshman on a team with Adrian Branch and Ben Coleman (2 former Bulls). And for the youngsters here, Bias was actually a better college player then Jordan was. thats scary. How it would have translated in the pros is a question we will never know, but I have every reason to believe that Bias would have had at a minimum of a couple of all NBA first team awards. And Deng really reminds me of him


----------



## curry_52

Wanna know more about Deng?
http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/recruiting/2056.html


And some comments:

*From: The Insiders:* 
"Mr. Versatility of the Class of 2003 as far as forwards go. Deng can play both inside and on the perimeter. He’s an aggressive rebounder with athleticism to boot. Like that he can handle it a little, step outside, and make others guard him. He’s a dual-citizenship guy and the brother of Fairfield forward Joe Deng. His sister is a basketball player at Maryland." 

*From: Rivals:* 
"Deng possesses a very strong handle and is an excellent passer for a player his size. He is very strong for his size and has a good feel for the game. Perhaps the one thing Deng brings to the table that makes him such a highly sought after recruit is his leadership ability. Attend any Blair game and you will hear Luol always talking on the court, pointing out holes in the defense and directing traffic. " 

*From: Prep Stars:* 
"A native of the Sudan, this 220 pound wing forward is polished, athletic, and highly skilled. He earned the no.2 post summer ranking by out-playing Ndudi Ebi head-to-head at the Nike Camp. Plays taller than 6'7" near the basket, where he skies for rebounds, posts up and finishes, and rejects, but is also effective on the perimeter via stop and go moves to the hoop, sweet three pointers and mid-range fadeaways and pull ups. His handle has room for improvement, though it's pretty good. We like the way he does the little things: sets picks, takes charges and hustles on defense. Near-super prospect. "


----------



## rlucas4257

Here is one thing about him that I loved about pietrus last year. The amount of time that he has actually played real basketball isnt that long. Now some say, oh so hes a project? No. It shows his upside. If he hasnt played that much, and he is already that good, think about how good he is going to be when he plays every day? His curve is going to be very steep. he would be a super prize for having such a piss-poor season


----------



## curry_52

http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36%7E76%7E1844086,00.html?search=filter

Good read, but unfortunately against copyright laws. 
*You may post links to appropriate articles in your posts, but you cannot post the articles in their entirety. You can quote from the articles, but do so sparingly. Remember, you agree in the Terms of Use to be held legally responsible for your own posts on BasketballBoards.net. Always credit the source when quoting from an article. truebluefan*


----------



## bullet

Good stuff Curry 52!

still i'd go for Luol Deng.
he plays the position we need and more likely to be available at 4-5 picks.

rlucas - Deng,Drejer and Josh smith r great.but i realy wouldnt like us picking Sergi Monya - he lacks so much in his game,and i've seen him a lot in euroleague,he's not even close to AK-47.
I'd go for at least 15 SF's before i pick him or Krypa.players like Josh Childers,Antoine wright,Hakim,Chirinaev(though i've never seen him play),romain Sato,Matt Freije,Darius Rice and ricky paulding r all higher then Monya on my list.


----------



## truebluefan

[/QUOTE]

Could you post the link to this please??


----------



## curry_52

The link for Dwight Howard story? Go to the Denver Post site -> Sports section


----------



## rlucas4257

only 1.5 games from having the most ping pong balls. what happens if deng doesnt declare. do we take okafor and deal on of our bigs?


----------



## RetroDreams

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> only 1.5 games from having the most ping pong balls. what happens if deng doesnt declare. do we take okafor and deal on of our bigs?


Please no. I think Okafor is one of those good college players that doesn't make for a good pro player. I just don't see him being a difference maker at the next level and I think he shapes up like Kenyon Martin.


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>RetroDreams</b>!
> 
> 
> Please no. I think Okafor is one of those good college players that doesn't make for a good pro player. I just don't see him being a difference maker at the next level and I think he shapes up like Kenyon Martin.


Take out Deng, and I think the most ready player is Ben Gordon. Now do we take Gordon and just let JC go? Sounds risky. There is a Euro Veremeenko who fits that nice size 6-10 player who can shoot the ball. Sergei Monya would be nice as well. he can shoot, but prefers to go hard to the bucket. and there is some russian 6-4 kid, who is a FA, who went for 40 in an euro leauge game last week. 8-8 from 3 pt land in that game


----------



## BEEZ

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> Take out Deng, and I think the most ready player is Ben Gordon. Now do we take Gordon and just let JC go? Sounds risky. There is a Euro Veremeenko who fits that nice size 6-10 player who can shoot the ball. Sergei Monya would be nice as well. he can shoot, but prefers to go hard to the bucket. and there is some russian 6-4 kid, who is a FA, who went for 40 in an euro leauge game last week. 8-8 from 3 pt land in that game


Would you guys want to mess up the obvious chemistry that JC and Hinrich have gathered? Do you think that Ben Gordon is going to be a better pro than JC? When you think about it, its addition by subtraction because you lose JC only to replace him with a comparable player and you still need the SF position.


----------



## RetroDreams

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> Take out Deng, and I think the most ready player is Ben Gordon. Now do we take Gordon and just let JC go? Sounds risky. There is a Euro Veremeenko who fits that nice size 6-10 player who can shoot the ball. Sergei Monya would be nice as well. he can shoot, but prefers to go hard to the bucket. and there is some russian 6-4 kid, who is a FA, who went for 40 in an euro leauge game last week. 8-8 from 3 pt land in that game


Obviously, I'd love to have Deng and I have heard some amazing things about Josh Smith from some friends I have down at IU. I just don't see Deng coming out, but if he does, I'd do whatever it takes to get him.

Do you think Monya is going to be better then Ivan Chirieav? I think there is something awe inspiring about a 7'1" 235lb kid who plays the PG/SG in high school. Like I said, I'm thinking about heading up to Canada to see him for myself.

I'm not sold on Ben Gordon, either... just too small for my tastes as I don't think he brings anything Kirk could, or Jamal for that matter. I think I'd love to trade down if we did happen to get the #1-#3 picks, especially if we could pick up a throw in like Jiri Welsh, etc.


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>BEEZ</b>!
> 
> 
> Would you guys want to mess up the obvious chemistry that JC and Hinrich have gathered? Do you think that Ben Gordon is going to be a better pro than JC? When you think about it, its addition by subtraction because you lose JC only to replace him with a comparable player and you still need the SF position.


Like i said, sounds risky. But who knows. its clear our coach and our GM dont like JC. If you listen to our members, they dont think his own teammates like him (which cant be further from the truth). But there is a decent shot he will want to go, and Gordon would be an interesting pick


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>RetroDreams</b>!
> 
> 
> Obviously, I'd love to have Deng and I have heard some amazing things about Josh Smith from some friends I have down at IU. I just don't see Deng coming out, but if he does, I'd do whatever it takes to get him.
> 
> Do you think Monya is going to be better then Ivan Chirieav? I think there is something awe inspiring about a 7'1" 235lb kid who plays the PG/SG in high school. Like I said, I'm thinking about heading up to Canada to see him for myself.
> 
> I'm not sold on Ben Gordon, either... just too small for my tastes as I don't think he brings anything Kirk could, or Jamal for that matter. I think I'd love to trade down if we did happen to get the #1-#3 picks, especially if we could pick up a throw in like Jiri Welsh, etc.


Chiriavev is the great X factor. i havent seen him play, I can only go by those people I know who have. Mixed reviews. But the concept is impressive. Monya gets the job done on a great european team (euro league finalist) on a tough league. 6-9,strong, nice touch, great attitude. For those of you who love Kirk, you would like this kid. same attitude. He plays a little like Mashburn, a little like Harpring. but bigger then both


----------



## curry_52

All we have to do is cross our fingers and root for Duke to win the National Championship!!!

If Duke wins, Deng is a lock to enter the Draft.


----------



## rlucas4257

lets hope so Curry cause he is the one guy I am 100% comfortable drafting in this crop. There will be nice players, but this isnt a particularly star studded group. You might get as good a player at 18 as you get at 5. Right now Id say my top 5 based on what I have seen is

Deng
Okafor
Gordon
Splitter
Monya

These are the guys I feel most comfortable about and making an impact on day one. Pavel is still a mystery though you can tell he has worked hard on his game for this season. Varejao is a nice player, but not a star. Im not sold at all on Howard or Smith as legit pros for 3 years, Chiriavev (i havent seen) but sounds like a fairy tale, Warrick is a nice player but when your compared to Darius Miles how good can you be?, not a promising group. And the European talent is a little off this year. Though there are some nice FAs over there, not draftable kids but FAs that the Bulls should look at. But I doubt Pax will leg the miles to go over there and watch some ball. He barely went to see Darko last year, why should he do that for a legit prospect like Veremeenko, this years Radmonovic


----------



## cima

Let's just hope that we don't draft a High Schooler...we don't have that kind of time anymore.


----------



## giusd

rlucus,

What is up man. I have been watching and reading up on Golden state and watched a couple of games on their east coust trip but no pietrus. You were right he looked like he was playing well but i have only seen Jrich and cheaney playing, and both better badly. What is with there coach and when is he going to see some minutes.

david


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>giusd</b>!
> rlucus,
> 
> What is up man. I have been watching and reading up on Golden state and watched a couple of games on their east coust trip but no pietrus. You were right he looked like he was playing well but i have only seen Jrich and cheaney playing, and both better badly. What is with there coach and when is he going to see some minutes.
> 
> david


thats the question on the GS boards as well. He went through a stretch about 2 weeks ago where he was playing about 20 min a night, scoring double digit points and playing arguably the best defense that a 20 year old could play. He had a nice game against the Knicks about a week ago. Then he got zero time the next night. and has been a garbage time player since. Last night he got a DNP-CD against the Lakers. The word is Coach Musselman doesnt like rookies. He didnt play Dunleavy at all last year and this year he is working him in. And GS is a veteran team. But still, Pietrus is their best on the ball defensive player, and their best off the ball defensive player. plus he is knocking down 3s at about a 50% clip. But for whatever reason, he was taken out of the lineup (Murphy coming back may have had something to do with that since they were using Pietrus alot as a 4 in a 4 guard lineup). and Jrich has been playing great. If the Bulls wanted to add an exciting young swingman to their roster, they ought to call GS and see if he is available. But I hear that even though he isnt playing, the franchise is still very high on him. but its worth a shot. Their fans will surely attest to how good he looks when he plays. Regardless, Pietrus is making me look good when he plays, but Musselman is making me look bad when he sits Pietrus down. Oh well.


----------



## giusd

Well i don't think much of jrich and but i would love a defensive minded sg on the bulls. I mean D. Stevenson just killed us last game and JC has to be one of the worst defensive players in the league. I will keep watch and waiting to see him play.

david


----------



## truebluefan

I know this is a lottery thread, but rlucas, seeing as to how we will not make the playoffs with this team and GS is right there, knocking at the door, do you see a possible trade with them at deadline? What do we have that they might need? 

I agree with Retro, Gordon is too small. If we get him and get rid of JC it had better be for a SF! But then you have to work two people into the team and not just 1. 

I hope Deng comes out.


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## bullet

Just not Monya!

i prefer Drejer,Josh Childers,Matt Freine,Antoine wright and Hakim on him.if Luol does not come out this year we should trade down.

One of these guys can easily fall to 2nd round as well(and Khryapa,Paulding,Sato and Iguodala)


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## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>bullet</b>!
> Just not Monya!
> 
> i prefer Drejer,Josh Childers,Matt Freine,Antoine wright and Hakim on him.if Luol does not come out this year we should trade down.
> 
> One of these guys can easily fall to 2nd round as well(and Khryapa,Paulding,Sato and Iguodala)


Monya is going to be a very good player. Not a superstar. But damn good. Drejer might be the next Kukoc, he could be good. Iguoudala is good, but maybe a 2. Warrick is Darius Miles redux, id stay away. I agree, Deng is the man. if he is not the guy, then the Bulls have lost. Its sort of Deng or bust now for this club


----------



## curry_52

I think Warrick is a much better offensive player than Miles, and he can actually post up and get some serious points. He is athletic but skinny. I think he is mid/late first round material.


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## rlucas4257

let me add Darius Rice to guys we can look at. Just not where we are going to be picking. As of right now, and damn I hate saying this, the lowest we will be picking is 5. If that is the case, its really Deng or bust. He is the only guy at 5 who would be worth it. Chiriavev is a longshot to help us next year, but i say this without having seen him play. Monya is a great value at 8-10. But he is a reach at 4 or 5.


----------



## bullet

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> Monya is going to be a very good player. Not a superstar. But damn good. Drejer might be the next Kukoc, he could be good. Iguoudala is good, but maybe a 2. Warrick is Darius Miles redux, id stay away. I agree, Deng is the man. if he is not the guy, then the Bulls have lost. Its sort of Deng or bust now for this club


Have u seen Monya Play?

Iv'e seen him a lot.I'm not saying he is bad.I'm just saying he's not gonna be anything more then below avrege in NBA.
he's even avrege in europe.the thing is he has good size but dont expect anything close to the socks of AK-47.i saw AK in europe as well and believe me there is a big difference.I'd consider picking the guy in the 2nd round but nowhere close to our 1st round pick.If wer'e going solid its Deng(who might stay in college)or trade down for a solid 3.


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>bullet</b>!
> 
> 
> Have u seen Monya Play?
> 
> Iv'e seen him a lot.I'm not saying he is bad.I'm just saying he's not gonna be anything more then below avrege in NBA.
> he's even avrege in europe.the thing is he has good size but dont expect anything close to the socks of AK-47.i saw AK in europe as well and believe me there is a big difference.I'd consider picking the guy in the 2nd round but nowhere close to our 1st round pick.If wer'e going solid its Deng(who might stay in college)or trade down for a solid 3.


i have seen Monya play a ton actually. And most people dont share your opinion. AK was about at the same place as Monya at the same age. Is Monya the next Ak47? Absolutely not. They arent even close to being comparable to each other. It would be like comparing Dominique to Bird. Totally different players. but this past summer, he played for Russia at the european championships. Alot of NBA types really walked away thinking he had a good chance at the lottery. His performance at CSKA this year as only cemented that. Tony Ronzone for instance has been there a ton watching him and Khyrapa play. I agree, I wouldnt take him in any higher then 5. but he will make someone a nice Matt Harpring type of player at 8-12


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## bullet

I'd be very surprized if he'd be even close to Harpering.
A lot of people thought Bagarich is great.and when u compared
Dominique to Bird i hope u didnt mean to compare Monya to Bird (AK much more athletic) cause u r up for a disapointment.I still say he's not worth top 20 and only time can tell...


----------



## Lusty RaRue

I want a Duke 3 please. Deng or Battier or even Dunleavy. I'm having nightmares that Charlotte will take Deng.

I like Okafor but agree with Retro that he's overpriced.

In general though it does seem like it's slim pickings(at least domestically) for the upper half of the lottery.

I don't see a 2 I'd take in the 1st round.

Ben Gordon with the Bull 1st rounder? 

If I wanted another 1 type, I'd rather take Kenneth Lowe in the 2nd round and use the 1st rounder to obtain a 3. Bobby Jackson like? Now there's value.

Misc.: I don't think they're coming out and both have "body issues"(Garcia: can he fill out, Hayes: can he guard the 3) but ...

Francisco Garcia sure can stroke it; can't he?

Chuck Hayes; a sane Artest lite?


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## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>bullet</b>!
> I'd be very surprized if he'd be even close to Harpering.
> A lot of people thought Bagarich is great.and when u compared
> Dominique to Bird i hope u didnt mean to compare Monya to Bird (AK much more athletic) cause u r up for a disapointment.I still say he's not worth top 20 and only time can tell...


no worries. I was just making a compare and contrast from monya to kirilenko. Their games are as different as Wilkens to Bird, or as different as say Laimbeer to Moses. meaning they may play the same position, but thats where the similarities end


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## truebluefan

i do believe as of today we are the worse team in the league. 

NBADraft.net has us picking third, but that was last updated around the 23rd. 

we do not need Howard or Pavel Podkolzine. On Tuesday they had Josh Smith at our #3 spot. The only way we pick and keep him is if he the real deal, ala Amare/James type of HS players. We had three HS players already. ( I consider Jamal a HS players) 


http://www.nbadraft.net/index.asp

their are only three SFs so far projected in the top 10 and that is counting on Deng coming out. But that is bound to change once we get closer to March madness. Warrick is the last SF in the top 10.


----------



## truebluefan

You won't believe this but some of the bulls boards I browse through and post on, one of them a poster, a moderator in fact is calling for another center in this draft. Pavel. His reasoning is the major battles down through history have been with the centers and he went on to list the battles.

:jawdrop: Another center? I am speechless!! Our need is a SF! Same as last summer until Jay almost killed himself! I tell you what, jays injury along with the three C's coming in not ready to play, really set this team back! big time. 

We do not need another center. And oh! this same mod said " Ming is on his way up and shaq is slowly turning into a role player."

:jawdrop: AGAIN! I wish we had a role player like shaq! LOL 22 pts 10 rebounds 3 blks 2 assists, tonight against HST. I admit his game will drop eventually but he came in shape and ready to play this season.


----------



## bullet

> Originally posted by <b>truebluefan</b>!
> You won't believe this but some of the bulls boards I browse through and post on, one of them a poster, a moderator in fact is calling for another center in this draft. Pavel. His reasoning is the major battles down through history have been with the centers and he went on to list the battles.
> 
> :jawdrop: Another center? I am speechless!! Our need is a SF! Same as last summer until Jay almost killed himself! I tell you what, jays injury along with the three C's coming in not ready to play, really set this team back! big time.
> 
> We do not need another center. And oh! this same mod said " Ming is on his way up and shaq is slowly turning into a role player."
> 
> :jawdrop: AGAIN! I wish we had a role player like shaq! LOL 22 pts 10 rebounds 3 blks 2 assists, tonight against HST. I admit his game will drop eventually but he came in shape and ready to play this season.


I agree!!! we need a 3!

the thing is with the pick we will probably have none of the names is worth top 8 but Deng(maybe Josh Smith - project or Hakim - who cant shoot,and we need a 3 that can shoot).

I say if no Deng next draft we should trade down and get one of many good options not worth top 10.


----------



## rlucas4257

Pavel, given time is going to be a nice player. But when i say time, i mean 4-6 years. We dont need him bottom line. This draft is about obtaining a 3. We can get a backup 5 for Curry any day we want. Or we can just rotate Chandler over there. If Curry gets himself thrown out of Chicago, a scenario i seriously doubt, then Chandler becomes the Center. If that happens, pick Okafor. Then Pavel. But Podkolzine shouldnt be on the Bulls radar, unless he is to be traded. It just doesnt make sense for us, though I think he will emerge at worst as a Mark Eaton level force. Probably better then that since this kid does have skills. But its pretty far away now


----------



## Benny the Bull

I think guys who are going to take a while to develop we can rule out now. So Pavel (extremely unlikely anyway), Howard and probably Smith are likely guys Paxson won't really consider.

The only way I see us taking Smith is if Deng doesn't come out and Paxson has moves in place to acquire help at SF, so Smith doesn't have a major role.

At the moment, you wouldn't think Paxson would draft anything but a SF or SG, but there doesn't seem to be many good SG prospects. It will probably be just our luck that we get the No. 1 pick and Deng stays at Duke.


----------



## bullet

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> Pavel, given time is going to be a nice player. But when i say time, i mean 4-6 years. We dont need him bottom line. This draft is about obtaining a 3. We can get a backup 5 for Curry any day we want. Or we can just rotate Chandler over there. If Curry gets himself thrown out of Chicago, a scenario i seriously doubt, then Chandler becomes the Center. If that happens, pick Okafor. Then Pavel. But Podkolzine shouldnt be on the Bulls radar, unless he is to be traded. It just doesnt make sense for us, though I think he will emerge at worst as a Mark Eaton level force. Probably better then that since this kid does have skills. But its pretty far away now


I agree,just not about picking Pavel.Again i dont believe he's worth top 8 and i prefer trading down if Deng is out,or pick Okafur as u wrote.unless we use Pavel as trade bait to one of many teams looking for a C to get our SF(Battier?)


----------



## rlucas4257

Battier would be nice. Qyntel Woods would be better. Mickael Pietrus would be sensational. Caron Butler would be the best


----------



## bullet

> Originally posted by <b>Benny the Bull</b>!
> I think guys who are going to take a while to develop we can rule out now. So Pavel (extremely unlikely anyway), Howard and probably Smith are likely guys Paxson won't really consider.
> 
> The only way I see us taking Smith is if Deng doesn't come out and Paxson has moves in place to acquire help at SF, so Smith doesn't have a major role.
> 
> At the moment, you wouldn't think Paxson would draft anything but a SF or SG, but there doesn't seem to be many good SG prospects. It will probably be just our luck that we get the No. 1 pick and Deng stays at Duke.


if we get the 1st pick we're still lucky cause we can trade down to 10-20 and get a worthy SG/SF plus in the pick we get we can pick Childers,Freije,Drejer,Antoine wright,Chirianev or Darius Rice.


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>bullet</b>!
> 
> 
> if we get the 1st pick we're still lucky cause we can trade down to 10-20 and get a worthy SG/SF plus in the pick we get we can pick Childers,Freije,Drejer,Antoine wright,Chirianev or Darius Rice.


One guy that we have spoken about briefly, who maybe a little more 2 but still worthy of a long look at the 3 at about 8-12 would be Andre Igoudala from U of A. I cant say I know too much about him. But I would love to hear any thoughts if anyone has any


----------



## bullet

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> One guy that we have spoken about briefly, who maybe a little more 2 but still worthy of a long look at the 3 at about 8-12 would be Andre Igoudala from U of A. I cant say I know too much about him. But I would love to hear any thoughts if anyone has any


Igoudala is the high Jumper.i'm not so sure about him cause while he realy has supreme athletic ability(6-7 jump)he never showed special ofensive talent.among the athletes i'd prefer Hakim that will probably go higher.and i'm sorry rlucas i forgot mentioning your guy Monya.


----------



## bullet

One more Guy is Luke Jackson who is having a great year in Oregon

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=2707


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>bullet</b>!
> 
> 
> Igoudala is the high Jumper.i'm not so sure about him cause while he realy has supreme athletic ability(6-7 jump)he never showed special ofensive talent.among the athletes i'd prefer Hakim that will probably go higher.and i'm sorry rlucas i forgot mentioning your guy Monya.


Monya is not my guy. I think he is better then you give him credit for, and would take him 8-12. But this year, my guy is Deng. My sleeper is Romain Sato. And my european fav as of right now is Veremeenko, who i see as Zarko Cabarkapa redux


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> Monya is not my guy. I think he is better then you give him credit for, and would take him 8-12. But this year, my guy is Deng. My sleeper is Romain Sato. And my european fav as of right now is Veremeenko, who i see as Zarko Cabarkapa redux


And I like Drejer and Splitter a ton as well. Thought I would add that. Drejer could help the Bulls, Splitter, no, unless the Bulls trade away a tower. Gordon and Okafor are nice as well. But on a level below Splitter and Deng for me.


----------



## truebluefan

Well Splitter must be a hell of a player to be above Gordon!


----------



## Benny the Bull

If we are picking between 8-12, I would take Drejer at this stage. I haven't seen Monya, but I like certain aspects of Drejer's game.


----------



## bullet

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> Monya is not my guy. I think he is better then you give him credit for, and would take him 8-12. But this year, my guy is Deng. My sleeper is Romain Sato. And my european fav as of right now is Veremeenko, who i see as Zarko Cabarkapa redux


I agree Deng is the man for us!

I also agree Sato is a sleeper.Luke Jackson might be too,and so is matt Frieje.

my european would probably be Damir Omerhodzic!


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>truebluefan</b>!
> Well Splitter must be a hell of a player to be above Gordon!


Splitter is going to be a top 5 5 in the NBA given time. Think Brad Miller but slightly better touch and atheleticism. He even get up and step out and handle it ala Dirk. He is going to be a good-great pro

Gordon has a chance to be special, or a bust. I really like his game. But he is one of these kids who is too small to be a 2 and he isnt really a true 1. his strength is scoring. big time. he can set up the offense. think a 6-2 Jamal. Id would be happy taking him quite frankly cause i think size in the backcourt is one of the most overrated things, but I see Splitter has the big man from this class that does the best in 3-5 years

Damir Omerhadzic. I have seen him play, but I will refain comment cause the game i saw he played 15 minutes and I just dont have a feel for him. Give me a more detailed scouting report when you get a chance


----------



## Showtyme

Okafor. Whoever gets Okafor is going to get a new breed of PF. PF's are already carrying the game on their backs, with guys like Duncan, Garnett, Malone, Brand, Big Ben, and Webber being the elite guys in the NBA. It's kind of difficult to see anyone match their company. But Okafor will.

He's like a B. Wallace, except more mental. Okafor has always been a natural shot-blocker, but he's a student of the game like no one else. The best thing you want is an exceptional defensively instinctive player to be a brainiac about his game with incredible discipline. You'll basically get a David Robinson.

Would anyone like a D-Robb? 24.3, 12 rpg, 1.68 spg, 3.89 bpg his rookie season? I think you can expect similar numbers from Okafor, although he's not as dominant physically. Okafor is an elite-shot blocker but is by no means a specialist. He spends hours with guys like Gordon and Denham Brown in the practice gym, picking their brains and trying to figure out what is going through their heads as they are driving into the lane so that he can be more anticipatory, to be one step ahead in the head. He's like the Kirk Hinrich of big men, except with even more natural basketball ability. The proof is in the pudding: check out his stats for the year so far with #2-ranked Conn:

8 games, 17.4 ppg, 11 rpg, .9 steals, 4.9 bpg (!!!!), in 29.4 mpg. The stat I like the most is that he's blocked 39 shots this season but only been called for 16 personal fouls. That's intelligent basketball.

Okafor has also improved his scoring drastically to the point where he can be a real post option, in addition to his absurdly dominant defense. The ESPN scouting report:

"The countries top defender, shot-blocker and rebounder ... A bruiser with impressive physical skills ... Owns outstanding speed and body control at 250-plus pounds ... Able to contest shots without fouling his opponent ... Possesses great shot-blocking instincts, attacking the ball rather than his man ... Also an emphatic rebounder ... Displays tremendous quickness off the floor on the second and third hop ... Tracks caroms out of his rebounding position ... Good outlet passer to ignite the fast break ... Has a rapidly developing offensive game ... Moves well with the ball, keeps the ball high and finishes strong ... Tries to finesse his way to buckets with his back to the hoop ... Shows a lot of touch for a big man on offense, and has an improving jumper."

I want this guy. I don't care that we have Chandler and Curry... we obviously lack depth up front and we might not be able to re-sign both guys. Chandler is the better player right now, but to have him AND Okafor playing for us would be a nightmare in the paint, a true two-towers scenario. Okafor can be the third guy in the PF-C rotation of our future, allowing Davis to get spot minutes at C and even allowing Chandler to line up occasionally at SF to play a huge lineup against teams (Skiles plays small, fast lineups as well as big hulking lineups to create mismatches on both ends).

Okafor is the guy for us. I don't care that we've got two guys at the positions, or that we have a desperate need for an SF. Put Okafor on this team. 

We've watched and all the doubters have been proven wrong (myself being the number one doubter) that Kirk Hinrich and his basketball fundamentals can transform the entire backcourt. It doesn't make a difference that Jamal Crawford is a top-tier PG in his own right; Hinrich's play and understanding of the game DEMANDED that he start. Okafor, similarly, is going to transform the frontcourt for us. 

Trade Antonio Davis with future 1st rounders and throw in one of the three C's, and try to grab Marion or get Ron Artest back from Indy (both might never happen, but you can always try). He's not a long-term answer at C, and his tutelage will be complete after this year.

GIVE US OKAFOR!

If Pax sticks with the philosophy of drafting the best available talent, I don't know that we can pass up on Okafor if we have access to him. Everyone else projected in the lottery are guys that will need to develop before they can remotely contribute, other than Okafor, Gordon, Monya, Iguodala, and Warrick. Of that group, Okafor is far and above the best talent (Ben Gordon is going to be a stellar NBA PG, but I think we've had enough of that).


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>Showtyme</b>!
> Okafor. Whoever gets Okafor is going to get a new breed of PF. PF's are already carrying the game on their backs, with guys like Duncan, Garnett, Malone, Brand, Big Ben, and Webber being the elite guys in the NBA. It's kind of difficult to see anyone match their company. But Okafor will.
> 
> He's like a B. Wallace, except more mental. Okafor has always been a natural shot-blocker, but he's a student of the game like no one else. The best thing you want is an exceptional defensively instinctive player to be a brainiac about his game with incredible discipline. You'll basically get a David Robinson.
> 
> Would anyone like a D-Robb? 24.3, 12 rpg, 1.68 spg, 3.89 bpg his rookie season? I think you can expect similar numbers from Okafor, although he's not as dominant physically. Okafor is an elite-shot blocker but is by no means a specialist. He spends hours with guys like Gordon and Denham Brown in the practice gym, picking their brains and trying to figure out what is going through their heads as they are driving into the lane so that he can be more anticipatory, to be one step ahead in the head. He's like the Kirk Hinrich of big men, except with even more natural basketball ability. The proof is in the pudding: check out his stats for the year so far with #2-ranked Conn:
> 
> 8 games, 17.4 ppg, 11 rpg, .9 steals, 4.9 bpg (!!!!), in 29.4 mpg. The stat I like the most is that he's blocked 39 shots this season but only been called for 16 personal fouls. That's intelligent basketball.
> 
> Okafor has also improved his scoring drastically to the point where he can be a real post option, in addition to his absurdly dominant defense. The ESPN scouting report:
> 
> "The countries top defender, shot-blocker and rebounder ... A bruiser with impressive physical skills ... Owns outstanding speed and body control at 250-plus pounds ... Able to contest shots without fouling his opponent ... Possesses great shot-blocking instincts, attacking the ball rather than his man ... Also an emphatic rebounder ... Displays tremendous quickness off the floor on the second and third hop ... Tracks caroms out of his rebounding position ... Good outlet passer to ignite the fast break ... Has a rapidly developing offensive game ... Moves well with the ball, keeps the ball high and finishes strong ... Tries to finesse his way to buckets with his back to the hoop ... Shows a lot of touch for a big man on offense, and has an improving jumper."
> 
> I want this guy. I don't care that we have Chandler and Curry... we obviously lack depth up front and we might not be able to re-sign both guys. Chandler is the better player right now, but to have him AND Okafor playing for us would be a nightmare in the paint, a true two-towers scenario. Okafor can be the third guy in the PF-C rotation of our future, allowing Davis to get spot minutes at C and even allowing Chandler to line up occasionally at SF to play a huge lineup against teams (Skiles plays small, fast lineups as well as big hulking lineups to create mismatches on both ends).
> 
> Okafor is the guy for us. I don't care that we've got two guys at the positions, or that we have a desperate need for an SF. Put Okafor on this team.
> 
> We've watched and all the doubters have been proven wrong (myself being the number one doubter) that Kirk Hinrich and his basketball fundamentals can transform the entire backcourt. It doesn't make a difference that Jamal Crawford is a top-tier PG in his own right; Hinrich's play and understanding of the game DEMANDED that he start. Okafor, similarly, is going to transform the frontcourt for us.
> 
> Trade Antonio Davis with future 1st rounders and throw in one of the three C's, and try to grab Marion or get Ron Artest back from Indy (both might never happen, but you can always try). He's not a long-term answer at C, and his tutelage will be complete after this year.
> 
> GIVE US OKAFOR!
> 
> If Pax sticks with the philosophy of drafting the best available talent, I don't know that we can pass up on Okafor if we have access to him. Everyone else projected in the lottery are guys that will need to develop before they can remotely contribute, other than Okafor, Gordon, Monya, Iguodala, and Warrick. Of that group, Okafor is far and above the best talent (Ben Gordon is going to be a stellar NBA PG, but I think we've had enough of that).


Okafor is going to be damn good. I agree with your assesment. ANd if Okafor is there, take him and deal a tower. I would agree with that from a basketball and financial perspective. But lets not get ahead of ourselves. He isnt going to be DRob stats from day one. We are talking about a guy much closer to kenyon martin then DRob. try 14 pts, a nice FG%, 8 bds and a couple of blks. He is still going to have to bulk up some. But the sky is the limit for this kid, i agree with this. Id have no problem taking him. I think he can guard 3 spots and emerge as a nice second option offensively wherever he goes


----------



## bullet

I think if we get Emeka we should trade Curry.if we got TC and Emeka in the paint we could be the best shotblocking team in the league.i also believe shotblocking is underrated and has HUGE effect on the game.Curry has good value and might get us a good SF(again Battier).

great stuff about Okafur Showtyme!


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>bullet</b>!
> I think if we get Emeka we should trade Curry.if we got TC and Emeka in the paint we could be the best shotblocking team in the league.i also believe shotblocking is underrated and has HUGE effect on the game.Curry has good value and might get us a good SF(again Battier).
> 
> great stuff about Okafur Showtyme!


I like Battier. But if Curry is dealt, you better get atleast a Rashard Lewis level player for him. If not, then higher. 3 Shane battiers couldnt get you Eddy Curry.


----------



## bullet

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> I like Battier. But if Curry is dealt, you better get atleast a Rashard Lewis level player for him. If not, then higher. 3 Shane battiers couldnt get you Eddy Curry.


I agree Rashard is Better.I also agree a straight up deal Curry for Battier is not good for us.I mean a deal involving other players or Picks.and i wouldn't say 3 Battiers,more like 1.5(and only cause EC is a C and harder to find - Battier has a shot at being a star in this league in a suitable team and is awsome on D)


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>bullet</b>!
> 
> 
> I agree Rashard is Better.I also agree a straight up deal Curry for Battier is not good for us.I mean a deal involving other players or Picks.and i wouldn't say 3 Battiers,more like 1.5(and only cause EC is a C and harder to find - Battier has a shot at being a star in this league in a suitable team and is awsome on D)


id love to have Shane Battier. And I would deal our number, top 3 protected for him in a second. But Centers who average 15 a night are so hard to find. I wouldnt trade Curry for 3 Battiers. but we disagree on valuation only. we agree on battiers ability to be a great fit. though i always thought he was just a role player extraordinaire. Which is not a bad thing. just not a star. but more then adequate to win a title with


----------



## bullet

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> id love to have Shane Battier. And I would deal our number, top 3 protected for him in a second. But Centers who average 15 a night are so hard to find. I wouldnt trade Curry for 3 Battiers. but we disagree on valuation only. we agree on battiers ability to be a great fit. though i always thought he was just a role player extraordinaire. Which is not a bad thing. just not a star. but more then adequate to win a title with


I think we both value EC highly.

I just value Battier more.

Everytime i've seen him play i admire his Defensive play more(very very smart)and he can gaurd even players like Kobe,T-Mac and Truth as good as anyone.
he is also very efficient on offense and is very close being a 50%(2),40%(3),85%(1).

he can give the right team 18 pnts and with this % it is gold.

he gives the team good rebounding for his position and is an avrege passer getting better.

he's one of very few players in the league that gives his team stls+blks(others - big ben,AK-47...good company)

Bottom line i think the guy is very underrated and can be an allstar one day.

And being a lockdown defender together with Kirk,AD and TC allows us to have a below avrege defender on 2 as JC is or someone like Flip.

I'd prefer a deal with Sonics but if its Battier how about:

trades: SF Linton Johnson (1.8 ppg, 1.8 rpg, 0.5 apg in 9.9 minutes) 
C Eddy Curry (13.5 ppg, 6.7 rpg, 1.0 apg in 30.6 minutes) 
SF Eddie Robinson (4.7 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 1.2 apg in 17.5 minutes)
2nd rounder 
Chicago receives: C Lorenzen Wright (9.7 ppg, 6.6 rpg, 1.1 apg in 24.5 minutes) 
SF Shane Battier (10.0 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 1.4 apg in 25.3 minutes) 
SG Dahntay Jones (1.8 ppg, 1.5 rpg, 2.0 apg in 9.0 minutes) 
1st rounder top 10 protected in 2005 
Change in team outlook: +1.5 ppg, +1.8 rpg, and +1.8 apg. 

Memphis trades: C Lorenzen Wright (9.7 ppg, 6.6 rpg, 1.1 apg in 24.5 minutes) 
SF Shane Battier (10.0 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 1.4 apg in 25.3 minutes) 
SG Dahntay Jones (1.8 ppg, 1.5 rpg, 2.0 apg in 9.0 minutes)
1st rounder top 10 protected in 2005 
Memphis receives: SF Linton Johnson (1.8 ppg, 1.8 rpg, 0.5 apg in 14 games) 
C Eddy Curry (13.5 ppg, 6.7 rpg, 1.0 apg in 22 games) 
SF Eddie Robinson (4.7 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 1.2 apg in 23 games)
2nd rounder 
Change in team outlook: -1.5 ppg, -1.8 rpg, and -1.8 apg. 

TRADE ACCEPTED

The thing is i think we got a chance with this deal cause Memphis is one of the teams that EC can realy complete.


----------



## Showtyme

I would do the trade only if I knew Okafor was coming to town. Otherwise, I'd never pull it.

But Okafor IS going to be that good. He is definitely going to resemble D-Robb more than K-Mart when he gets out.  I don't know if we'll expect numbers quite THAT high, since Robinson stepped onto a floundering squad and was instantly their only star. But Okafor is as good as Duncan was at Wake Forest. Okafor doesn't look AS good (17, 11, 5 bpg) compared to Duncan's senior year (20.8, 14.7, 3.3 bpg), but Conn is a much better team than TD's Wake Forest team was. Guys like Gordon (19.1 ppg) can seriously score, and guys like Taliek Brown can pick up a lot of the other work of the team (4.6, 2.4, 5.8 apg)

There's also one Charlie Villanueva (remember him, guys?) that is stepping in recently and nabbing 15.3 and 7.3. 

And TD averaged 6+ more minutes per game.

But Okafor is almost at that level, he seriously is. And that is the only draft pick that really forces us to a decision. Do we want the next Tim Duncan, ready to play as of NEXT SEASON, or is there another talent available to look at?


----------



## rlucas4257

James White looked damn good to me today. He is officially a sleeper for this draft


----------



## Benny the Bull

> Originally posted by <b>Showtyme</b>!
> I would do the trade only if I knew Okafor was coming to town. Otherwise, I'd never pull it.
> 
> But Okafor IS going to be that good. He is definitely going to resemble D-Robb more than K-Mart when he gets out. I don't know if we'll expect numbers quite THAT high, since Robinson stepped onto a floundering squad and was instantly their only star. But Okafor is as good as Duncan was at Wake Forest. Okafor doesn't look AS good (17, 11, 5 bpg) compared to Duncan's senior year (20.8, 14.7, 3.3 bpg), but Conn is a much better team than TD's Wake Forest team was. Guys like Gordon (19.1 ppg) can seriously score, and guys like Taliek Brown can pick up a lot of the other work of the team (4.6, 2.4, 5.8 apg)
> 
> There's also one Charlie Villanueva (remember him, guys?) that is stepping in recently and nabbing 15.3 and 7.3.
> 
> And TD averaged 6+ more minutes per game.
> 
> But Okafor is almost at that level, he seriously is. And that is the only draft pick that really forces us to a decision. Do we want the next Tim Duncan, ready to play as of NEXT SEASON, or is there another talent available to look at?


If we are in the position to take Okafor, it's an interetsing problem. First, you have to consider where Chandler and Curry are at at the end of the season. 

Two, who will become the better players? If it's Curry and Chandler, deal Okafor for an established SF.

If you think all 3 or maybe 2 guys are going to end up being similar in ability, pick Okafor if he is going to give you more next year.

Also an issue of compatibility. Okafor's game is in the low post. Would that work with Curry? This is why Brand was traded. Does he have a jumper? Things like that. Probably something we can talk about more when we have a better idea of where we will eventually finish. I think either frontcourt combination:

Curry/Chandler
Curry/Okafor
Chandler/Okafor

will be good. It could be a good problem to have on draft day.


----------



## rlucas4257

you have to take contracts into account. This works against keeping Chandler and Curry. Okafor might just be as good as TC and EC now. But atleast for 4 years, he is on a rookie deal. That works to the Bulls favor big time. Chandler and Curry are looking at big extenstions, or in their minds they are. Paying one guy, putting off paying the other guy for 4 years and adding a SF is probably the best way to go


----------



## Benny the Bull

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> you have to take contracts into account. This works against keeping Chandler and Curry. Okafor might just be as good as TC and EC now. But atleast for 4 years, he is on a rookie deal. That works to the Bulls favor big time. Chandler and Curry are looking at big extenstions, or in their minds they are. Paying one guy, putting off paying the other guy for 4 years and adding a SF is probably the best way to go


That's a good point. With the luxury tax seemingly unlikely, maybe it's not as big an issue.

Okafor is probably the only guy who plays a position where the Bulls could be set (PG - Hinrich, SG - Crawford (still not certain in Paxson's mind) PF - Chandler and C - Curry) that you would look at. Maybe Gordon. The top prospects at the moment maybe guys who will take a while to develop which is what we don't need. I think it really should be an easy draft for Paxson. Pick a SF!


----------



## rlucas4257

Lux tax really isnt the issue. But if you can pay 2 guys 7 million rather then one guy 7 mil and get help at 2 spots, then your better off. It might help the Bulls get under the cap even when AD comes off the books in half a decade. Okafor would make 3.5 mil. Then trade Chandler or Curry for a guy like Dunleavy who makes about 3.5 mil. Sounds good to me. Obviously, big has more value then small. So curry/chandler for dunleavy and Pietrus would be a swap that would take care of our depth and wing play for 10 years


----------



## Benny the Bull

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> Lux tax really isnt the issue. But if you can pay 2 guys 7 million rather then one guy 7 mil and get help at 2 spots, then your better off. It might help the Bulls get under the cap even when AD comes off the books in half a decade. Okafor would make 3.5 mil. Then trade Chandler or Curry for a guy like Dunleavy who makes about 3.5 mil. Sounds good to me. Obviously, big has more value then small. So curry/chandler for dunleavy and Pietrus would be a swap that would take care of our depth and wing play for 10 years


It probably all evens out any way. It Curry & Chandler get $7 million extensions, that $14m. Take Okafor, and trade one of Chandler or Curry for Rashard Lewis (add E-Rob to make work), would make $8 or $9m, plus $7m for the guy you keep plus Okafor is $19m to $20m anyway.

BTW,

Okafor against Ball State

30 mins, 10-15 FG, 14 rebs, 5 blks, 25 pts


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>Benny the Bull</b>!
> 
> 
> It probably all evens out any way. It Curry & Chandler get $7 million extensions, that $14m. Take Okafor, and trade one of Chandler or Curry for Rashard Lewis (add E-Rob to make work), would make $8 or $9m, plus $7m for the guy you keep plus Okafor is $19m to $20m anyway.
> 
> BTW,
> 
> Okafor against Ball State
> 
> 30 mins, 10-15 FG, 14 rebs, 5 blks, 25 pts


actually, assuming TC and EC get 7 million each and assuming you think Okafor is as good as either and he gets paid 3.5 mil. so if you can deal TC or EC for Rashard Lewis (who i think makes around 7 mil), that means you dont save money. But rather then having 17.5 million invested at 4/5 spots, you have 10.5 mil for the next 4 years (saving money there) and 7 mil invested at the 3. Its just a balance issue. spreading the salary out over the roster.


----------



## truebluefan

Comments on D Howard

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/columnist/oconnor/2003-12-30-oconnor_x.htm

*James plays it like American kids aren't supposed to. His is a fundamental genius supposedly cornered by the European market but on display in the form of the next No. 1 pick. Howard, the 6-11 son of a Georgia state trooper, wowed 17 NBA scouts at Delaware's Slam Dunk to the Beach tournament the other night with 25 points, 21 rebounds, nine blocks, five assists and one frightening ability to handle the ball on the break.

"If I go pro I'm thinking I'm going in there to dominate right away," Howard said in his locker room. "What I want to do is ... show everybody LeBron just set a standard for high schoolers that we can play basketball with the big boys. ... I think I can surpass LeBron."

If it sounds crazy, so did the notion of James standing among the 10 or 12 best players in the NBA. Howard's next tour stop is Saturday's Pangos Dream Classic at UCLA, while James will continue to sell $110 sneakers and make the kind of beautiful music worthy of a Mozart in shorts.*


----------



## rlucas4257

interesting true blue. This kid has a shot. But i wouldnt put him in Lebrons class. Though most scouts say he is better now then Amare was. Interesting quandry for Pax if he ends up at the number one pick. If deng is there, the answer is simple. If he is not, do you deal Chandler away for a 3 and take Okafor or Howard?


----------



## curry_52

No way. I would only trade Chandler if I know he wont play at 100% ever again or if he is an injury waiting to happen. 
Im not a big Okafor fan, right now
1- Deng
2- Howard


----------



## rlucas4257

id trade Chandler, if I thought there was an equal 4 and that Chandler could net you a Rashard Lewis level 3. I think Okafor might be a Chandler level 4. Howard might be, but the Kwame comparisons scare the crap out of me. But bottom line, the best avenue for the Bulls is getting lucky and drafting Deng. That way you just keep Chandler. That kid is pretty damn impressive


----------



## curry_52

I watched an amazing Deng dunk @ Sportscenter last night. He had like 18 points. 

From what I read, comparing Howard to Kwame isnt fair. They are different kind of players, they affect the game in different ways. They also play different positions and have different roles. And I see a more positive attitude coming from Howard than Kwame.


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> I watched an amazing Deng dunk @ Sportscenter last night. He had like 18 points.
> 
> From what I read, comparing Howard to Kwame isnt fair. They are different kind of players, they affect the game in different ways. They also play different positions and have different roles. And I see a more positive attitude coming from Howard than Kwame.


id agree. its not fair. But the couple of scouts i have spoken too have used it. I havent seen howard so i cant really comment. im more in tuned with the college and euro game then HS. But Howard and Kwame do play the same position and do have the same body etc. The similarities might end there however


----------



## curry_52

I read Howard can play the 3 as well, but he will be a 4 at the pros. I know what you are saying, but they were already questioning Kwame competitiveness while at High School.

And sorry about that 1. Deng 2. Howard, I meant 1. Deng 2. Smith.

My whish list:
1- Deng
2- Trade pick
3- Smith


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> I read Howard can play the 3 as well, but he will be a 4 at the pros. I know what you are saying, but they were already questioning Kwame competitiveness while at High School.
> 
> And sorry about that 1. Deng 2. Howard, I meant 1. Deng 2. Smith.
> 
> My whish list:
> 1- Deng
> 2- Trade pick
> 3- Smith


Your not far off on that. If I had a wish list, I would wish for
1. Deng
2. Okafor
3. Trade Pick/Smith
4. somehow, someway, Yi-Jianlin proves he is 18 and we get 
5. Tiaggo Splitter, we cant have enough 4 and 5s
6. Ben Gordon - we need a third guard to play if Jay doesnt come back
7. Sergei Monya
8. Trade down for any of the following players
Rice, Sato, Igoudala, Khyrapa, White


----------



## rlucas4257

http://basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=69958


----------



## bullet

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> Your not far off on that. If I had a wish list, I would wish for
> 1. Deng
> 2. Okafor
> 3. Trade Pick/Smith
> 4. somehow, someway, Yi-Jianlin proves he is 18 and we get
> 5. Tiaggo Splitter, we cant have enough 4 and 5s
> 6. Ben Gordon - we need a third guard to play if Jay doesnt come back
> 7. Sergei Monya
> 8. Trade down for any of the following players
> Rice, Sato, Igoudala, Khyrapa, White


If it is 1-5 pick I'd say 
1.Emeka(and then trade Curry for Battier and picks)
2.Deng(assuming he comes out)
3.Trade down to 15-25 and get a solid not overpaid SF

No doubt Deng is the man that fits us the best but if we had num 1 i'd still go for Emeka


----------



## curry_52

> Originally posted by <b>bullet</b>!
> 
> 1.Emeka(and then trade Curry for Battier and picks)


:banghead: 

:hurl:


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> 
> 
> :banghead:
> 
> :hurl:


Again, Battier for Curry doesnt make sense for us in the least bit, even with the picks. Its just starting over. They have Gasol, but that doesnt make sense if your taking Emeka. Now dealing Emeka or Chandler and getting a Rashard Lewis level 3 makes more sense. Chandler probably would go cause of his pending contract demands. Getting a 5 is just so hard in this league. Curry is a five. I dont believe Chandler can be.


----------



## bullet

Emeka can and probably will play 5 in the league.

and again i agree Rashard is even a better posibility then Battier if available.


----------



## truebluefan

The Truth – Finding The Next Lottery Trio by Bryan Everson 

http://www.basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=70178&forumid=63

a small editorial by one of our posters.


----------



## truebluefan

Anyone watch Humphries play today for the Golden Gophers? He played a bad first half but wound up 21 pts. Anyone like him? He is predicted lower first round, so we will never get him. If i had a choice I would pick Rice over Humphries.


----------



## rlucas4257

nice player from what i heard. id post some insider stuff on him but that is a big no no from now on


----------



## bullet

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> nice player from what i heard. id post some insider stuff on him but that is a big no no from now on


I've seen him in the game before and he looks good(against Utah)

he is very agresive and strong.he can hit the J but doesn't take the 3 unless he's open.i think his game is more established on the inside but has what it takes to be honorable on the outside.
he's like Najera but with better offensive skills.

rlucas - i don't wanna piss u on your thread but i like him better then Monya.


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>bullet</b>!
> 
> 
> I've seen him in the game before and he looks good(against Utah)
> 
> he is very agresive and strong.he can hit the J but doesn't take the 3 unless he's open.i think his game is more established on the inside but has what it takes to be honorable on the outside.
> he's like Najera but with better offensive skills.
> 
> rlucas - i don't wanna piss u on your thread but i like him better then Monya.


why would that be pissing on my thread? You have an opinion and I respect it. i dont necessarily agree with it, but i respect it. Its not pissing on me to say you like another player more then a player I like. Its good debate. Im not in love with Monya, i just think he is going to be a good pro. not great, but good


----------



## Lusty RaRue

I'm ignorant and need help.

Most college players come out if they're going to be a high lottery pick. Okafor last year was an exception due to his rare academic dedication.

Could some kind soul please make the case for why Deng would NOT come out please? I want him to. I don't know him. What are the reasons for the concern?

Thank you.


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>Lusty RaRue</b>!
> I'm ignorant and need help.
> 
> Most college players come out if they're going to be a high lottery pick. Okafor last year was an exception due to his rare academic dedication.
> 
> Could some kind soul please make the case for why Deng would NOT come out please? I want him to. I don't know him. What are the reasons for the concern?
> 
> Thank you.


History says that MOST DUKIES stick around til graduation. There have been exceptions (Brand, Maggette, Avery), but for the most part, they stay. coach K is on record saying that he would never be involved with a one and done kid. He was ticked about Maggette. Some have said that he doesnt even talk to the kid to this day. Its hard imagining Deng passing on a guaranteed top 4 pick, but crazier things have happened. and word is this kid is plenty smart as well


----------



## Lusty RaRue

Thank you. 

It doesn't seem smart to stay:

If he gets injured in school he can't get to the NBA and the big pay day.

If he gets injured in the NBA he can use the guaranteed money to go back to school.

Oh well, what do I know.


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>Lusty RaRue</b>!
> Thank you.
> 
> It doesn't seem smart to stay:
> 
> If he gets injured in school he can't get to the NBA and the big pay day.
> 
> If he gets injured in the NBA he can use the guaranteed money to go back to school.
> 
> Oh well, what do I know.


you are 100% right.


----------



## bullet

> Originally posted by <b>Lusty RaRue</b>!
> Thank you.
> 
> It doesn't seem smart to stay:
> 
> If he gets injured in school he can't get to the NBA and the big pay day.
> 
> If he gets injured in the NBA he can use the guaranteed money to go back to school.
> 
> Oh well, what do I know.


I sure hope Deng thinks the same!


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>bullet</b>!
> 
> 
> I sure hope Deng thinks the same!


Deng and Okafor, those 2 im sold on

I have a tape of Howard that I am going to watch today. it will be my first full game of his. Itll be interesting to watch


----------



## bullet

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> Deng and Okafor, those 2 im sold on
> 
> I have a tape of Howard that I am going to watch today. it will be my first full game of his. Itll be interesting to watch


After your last game analysis i'll be waiting for your notes about Howard!


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>bullet</b>!
> 
> 
> After your last game analysis i'll be waiting for your notes about Howard!


ill pop in the disk in about a half hour. Im really psyched to see him play


----------



## GB

If we're in the lottery, where do you guys think we'll be picking at?


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>GB</b>!
> If we're in the lottery, where do you guys think we'll be picking at?


right now its looking like 4, but who knows. Its a crap shoot. No lower then 7 is my gut right now. Particularly if Chandler and Pippen are on the IR from here on out


----------



## truebluefan

Villanueva 25 pts 8 rebounds an assist and a steal vs Rice


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>truebluefan</b>!
> Villanueva 25 pts 8 rebounds an assist and a steal vs Rice


He is looking good. But doesnt he look like Terry Mills just a little bit? That is one that scares me about him.


----------



## truebluefan

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> He is looking good. But doesnt he look like Terry Mills just a little bit? That is one that scares me about him.


Yes he does.


----------



## Benny the Bull

Deng 28 mins, 4-12 FG, 1-3 3pt, 4 rebs, 1 ast, 1 TO, 1 stl, 12 pts
vs Clemson.

Iguodala 25 mins, 4-7 FG, 0-3 3pt, 8 rebs, 8 asts, 1 TO, 1 blk, 9 pts vs Arizona State

Drejer 33 mins, 3-7 FG, 0-3 3pt, 4 rebs, 4 asts, 4 TO, 8 pts vs Florida State

Warrick 34 mins, 6-12 FG, 0-0 3pt, 4 rebs, 4 asts, 1 TO, 21 pts vs Michigan State

If Iguodala could shoot, he would great to draft.


----------



## bullet

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> right now its looking like 4, but who knows. Its a crap shoot. No lower then 7 is my gut right now. Particularly if Chandler and Pippen are on the IR from here on out


Bobcats get 4!


----------



## rlucas4257

ok i just gone done watching 2 of Dwight Howards games on DVD. Pretty amazing stuff. But I want to preface it by saying that I am not comfortable in my abilities in talking about translating the HS game into the pros. I think it takes a tremendous scout to do that. And I didnt know anything about his competition.

A couple of thing. He is very long and has a pro body. He also is very atheletic. He did alot of handling on the perimeter, and looked quite comfortable handling the rock in traffic or in the open court. I was told he grew recently into that body and started his HS career as a guard. That was fairly obvious. His passing and shooting were nice. When he went down low, he had a nice touch and a turnaround fadaway. 

The downside to him is that he disappeared for mini stretches in the game. And like all HS superstars, you got the feeling that he didnt play much D unless he had too. That isnt to say he isnt a good defender, just that he might find the competition a lilttle boring. 

I wouldnt be surprised if this kid grows up even more. He looked very tall at 6-10 to me. if I were guessing, id say he was a 7 footer. But the official measurements have him at 6-10, so id believe that. 

Everyone has him as a 4. But based on his perimeter skills and long body, he might just be a 3. I think versatility will be this kids biggest strength. He idnt tkae a 3 pointer in the games I saw. but he did have a nice mid range game, which is a sign that he might be able to stretch that out further.

Last thing, exceptional explosion

In conclusion, i am not good enough to know how his game would translate to the pros. I watched plenty of Lebron last year and this kid is not lebron. But i dont know if playing atlanta compeition is better or worse then akron/cleveland competition. But this kid looks legit to me. But I just dont have a good enough feel for the HS game to say he an immediate contributor on day one.


----------



## bullet

rlucas - ok,no Lebron,but can he be the next KG???


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>bullet</b>!
> rlucas - ok,no Lebron,but can he be the next KG???


hard to tell. Im just not good enough to know. But there seemed to be alot of similarities in their games.


----------



## Darius Miles Davis

Well our sweet shooting little Shard Darius Rice wasn't so sweet shooting last night against UNC. 2-8 with 7 pts, 5 rebounds and no assists. Not impressive. He is averaging 17 ppg for the year, but only 43% shooting. That's not going to cut in in the league. I'll keep an eye on him.


----------



## curry_52

> Originally posted by <b>Darius Miles Davis</b>!
> Well our sweet shooting little Shard Darius Rice wasn't so sweet shooting last night against UNC. 2-8 with 7 pts, 5 rebounds and no assists. Not impressive. He is averaging 17 ppg for the year, but only 43% shooting. That's not going to cut in in the league. I'll keep an eye on him.


Mid-Second round.


----------



## bullet

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> 
> 
> Mid-Second round.



U never know.I've seen him in better games.

and not that I'm implying but there is another 6-10 SF playing in Seattle that went mid 2nd round so don't erase him yet.


----------



## rlucas4257

Insider did a story today about the draft. They focused on the HSers. Apparently this crop is better then the 2001 Chandler-Curry-Brown crop. The focus is on Howard. Their scouts compared him to Duncan, to KG and yes, to Kwame Brown. They say he has it all. He has grown an inch (which i said earlier in this thread) and now is 6-11 255. He is a big smooth kid. they said if he has heart, which is a question mark since he is such a nice kid, then he might be an immediate impact player in the crop

There are FIVE other HSers who might declare for the draft that have a chance at the lottery. I thought that was a stretch by Ford but here is a sentence about each from the article (no i am not posting the article)

Josh Smith 6-9 200 Darius Miles with a jump shot, tends to have confidence issues

Shaun Livingston PG 6-7 180 Tall PG who is very creative with the rock. From Peoria. 

Robert Swift 7-1 240 Center committed to USC but doesnt have the grades. His game has really emerged this year. Late lottery likely. nice passer for a big man

Al Jefferson PF 6-9 270. Ferocious Amare Stoudamire/Zach Randolph in the paint type. Worked hard on getting a medium range J

LaMarcus Aldridge 6-11 225 SF-C. Mid First Rounder. Has really improved. Nice J and atheletic ability. Ford claims he might be able to play some 3 in the NBA. If he cant, he is going to have to bulk up for action at the 4

The only two of this bunch that Pax would look at are Howard and Smith. But I thought I would post it anyway for the draftniks out there who like to hear about these players. Enjoy and PM me with any questions


----------



## BCH

Just so you know, you will be drafting after the Wizards this year.


----------



## johnston797

How is Pavel Podkolzine doing in Europe? Any reports? I always suspected that this guy was a hoax but nbadraft.net still has him at #2.


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>johnston797</b>!
> How is Pavel Podkolzine doing in Europe? Any reports? I always suspected that this guy was a hoax but nbadraft.net still has him at #2.


He is playing a little more, shows plenty of flashes but not setting the world on the fire. But he isnt a stiff. And he will probably go in the top 5


----------



## bullet

I hope we dont pick Pavel.I don't think he's an impact player.


----------



## rlucas4257

bullet, you have been great on this thread. I gave you 5 stars for your efforts here. i cant figure out why your at 2 stars only. what happened?


----------



## rlucas4257

For peoples enjoyment


http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20031011/HOOPS11/TPSports/Basketball

http://www.break-down.com/dailybrea....cfm?textID=350

http://nbadraft.net/chiriaevstory.asp


----------



## bullet

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> bullet, you have been great on this thread. I gave you 5 stars for your efforts here. i cant figure out why your at 2 stars only. what happened?


Thanks rlucas!
i really like your sticky thread,and sadly it means a lot to our team(again waiting for the ping-pong balls).

the stars don't mean much to me and a lot of my bad ratings i got from posters that were one month with us and i've never seen them since - posters i simply did not agree with.but really it means nothing to me and i really enjoy debating on our best "bulls talk" board on the net.my income does not change because of 1 stars i get from other posters,and everyone is intitled to his own opinion,even if it is revengeful.

anyway - u r a 5 star poster for me for a long time and i always wait to read your posts! keep it rolling!

P.S - good Chirianev story,did u see him play?


----------



## curry_52

From the Sun-Times:
_Bulls operations chief John Paxson hit the recruiting trail and plans to take another look at Connecticut's Emeka Okafor, who likely will be one of the top three picks._


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> From the Sun-Times:
> _Bulls operations chief John Paxson hit the recruiting trail and plans to take another look at Connecticut's Emeka Okafor, who likely will be one of the top three picks._


Looks like I might just have Paxs ear!

JK


----------



## curry_52

Having Pax scouting Okafor is OK for me, it doesnt mean he will trade either Chandler and Curry to get his hands on Okafor (Or draft Emeka and trade one of them). 
At least he wont say "I didnt watch Emeka IN DIRETTA so I cant draft him" as he did with Pietrus. 
This being said, I didnt read any report saying Pax scouted Deng but it shouldnt be too long before we see it, especially if the Bulls start pilling up "Ls".


----------



## rlucas4257

It all depends on where we draft. But I only see 4 options for the Bulls. Its pretty plain and simple. If none of these options pan out, just deal the pick

1) Easily option number one is to Emeka Okafor somewhere in the top 3 and deal Chandler or Curry for a 3 man. This makes the most sense, from a financial and basketball perspective

2) Take Luol Deng somewhere in the top 5. No this kid isnt Carmello ready, but he is going to be an impact player on the level of Chris Bosh in year one. Hope he declares. 

3) Draft Dwight Howard and just live with it. This is the least desirable of the 3 options, but he does seem to have a big upside. If he is even half as good as Lebron then you can deal Chandler or Curry for a 3 man. 

The major distant 4th option only comes from picking 6-11

4) take Sergei Monya. i watched him play live this weekend. Report is forth coming. He is a nice player. On day one, he isnt going to set the world on fire, but he could be an answer at the 3 spot in a year or 2. Nice player. Artest/Harpring type


----------



## Benny the Bull

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> It all depends on where we draft. But I only see 4 options for the Bulls. Its pretty plain and simple. If none of these options pan out, just deal the pick
> 
> 1) Easily option number one is to Emeka Okafor somewhere in the top 3 and deal Chandler or Curry for a 3 man. This makes the most sense, from a financial and basketball perspective
> 
> 2) Take Luol Deng somewhere in the top 5. No this kid isnt Carmello ready, but he is going to be an impact player on the level of Chris Bosh in year one. Hope he declares.
> 
> 3) Draft Dwight Howard and just live with it. This is the least desirable of the 3 options, but he does seem to have a big upside. If he is even half as good as Lebron then you can deal Chandler or Curry for a 3 man.
> 
> The major distant 4th option only comes from picking 6-11
> 
> 4) take Sergei Monya. i watched him play live this weekend. Report is forth coming. He is a nice player. On day one, he isnt going to set the world on fire, but he could be an answer at the 3 spot in a year or 2. Nice player. Artest/Harpring type


I'll take option 1 and 2. Option 3 I'll pass. I haven't seen Howard play, but the thought of having to develop another high school player doesn't sit well with me. So if he isn't going to make an immediate impact, I'd pass. As for option 4, I haven't seen Monya so I can't comment.

Btw, UConn v Oklahoma, Okafor almost had a triple double

33 mins, 10-14 FG, 1-1 FT, 10 rebs, 1 ast, 1 TO, 1 stl, 9 blks, 21 pts

Duke v Virginia, Deng was solid

27 mins, 6-13 FG, 0-3 3pt, 0-2 FT, 8 rebs, 1 asts, 3 TOs, 1 stl, 1 blk, 12 pts


----------



## Bullhawk

I am leaning heavily towards taking Okafor and dealing Chandler(I love him but Curry makes more sense with Okafor) along with JC,ERob for Shard Lewis and ADaniels.

Hinrich,(Daniels)
Gill,Daniels
Lewis,Pippen
Okafor,JYD
Curry,Davis


----------



## bullet

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> It all depends on where we draft. But I only see 4 options for the Bulls. Its pretty plain and simple. If none of these options pan out, just deal the pick
> 
> 1) Easily option number one is to Emeka Okafor somewhere in the top 3 and deal Chandler or Curry for a 3 man. This makes the most sense, from a financial and basketball perspective
> 
> 2) Take Luol Deng somewhere in the top 5. No this kid isnt Carmello ready, but he is going to be an impact player on the level of Chris Bosh in year one. Hope he declares.
> 
> 3) Draft Dwight Howard and just live with it. This is the least desirable of the 3 options, but he does seem to have a big upside. If he is even half as good as Lebron then you can deal Chandler or Curry for a 3 man.
> 
> The major distant 4th option only comes from picking 6-11
> 
> 4) take Sergei Monya. i watched him play live this weekend. Report is forth coming. He is a nice player. On day one, he isnt going to set the world on fire, but he could be an answer at the 3 spot in a year or 2. Nice player. Artest/Harpring type


rlucas - if we take Monya we can probably trade down and still get him,though u know allready i'd take Hakim,Antoine wright,and a few others before.


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>bullet</b>!
> 
> 
> rlucas - if we take Monya we can probably trade down and still get him,though u know allready i'd take Hakim,Antoine wright,and a few others before.


I know zilch about Wright. I like Igoudala. I dont like Hakim Warrick. Guys who cant shoot at his position dont make it very often. Id take Monya long before I took Warrick. id also take Rice before Warrick


----------



## BEEZ

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> I know zilch about Wright. I like Igoudala. I dont like Hakim Warrick. Guys who cant shoot at his position dont make it very often. Id take Monya long before I took Warrick. id also take Rice before Warrick


Rice will not be that great in the pros. Monya and Warrick are safer bets. Why dont you like Warrick?


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>BEEZ</b>!
> 
> 
> Rice will not be that great in the pros. Monya and Warrick are safer bets. Why dont you like Warrick?


I hate Miles, and Warrick reminds me on him. Super athlete, high ceiling, cant shoot a lick. I cant stand players like that. I am a fan of the Peja and old school Glen Rice type of 3. I also love the old school Pippen 3 but hardly anyone plays the point forward spot


----------



## Wild Wild West

I think the speculation on where the Bull's will pick and the most likely players has tended to include picks too high, top four for example is not likely in my opinion, or players not good enough to be real attractive in the 5-10 slot where I expect we will draft. 

The odds are good that we will not have to face a decision on Okafor or Howard, the consensus top two. Right now we are in a group of teams close to the first pick. We are starting a lineup that does not include even one player at the position anticipated heading into the season. The lineup was supposed to be Crawford, Rose, Pippin, Chandler, Curry 1-5, and now it is Hinrich, Crawford, Gill, Williams, Davis. Our starting forwards have missed most of the season, and yes we are not a good team without them.

Pippin may be close to finished and Chandler might have ongoing back problems, who knows, but there is also a pretty good possibility the return of both could enable us to be a .500 team the rest of the season. Chandler before he got hurt was probably the best player on the team. He Curry and Crawford all have track records of doing much better in the second half of seasons.

My point is a probably too late run to make the playoffs is pretty likely. I expect us to beat Atlanta, Cleveland, Washington, and probably Orlando. If Pippin and Chandler come back we should distance ourselves from those teams and make a run at Miami, New York and maybe Philadelphia. I expect us if reasonably healthy to be as good or better than those teams, but obviously having spotted them a significant lead we might not catch them.

The difference between the two conferences makes the lottery pretty unusual this year. The 9th place team in the east could pick as early as 8th, and anything lower than 10th is very unlikely. In essence it looks like early lottery will be all eastern teams, and the latter part of the lottery just about all from the west. The difference between making the playoffs and just missing it in the east is probably the difference between the 15th pick in the draft and 8, 9, or 10.

Remember Charlotte is in the lottery this year and as I understand it drafts 4th. So we are not looking at Okafor or Howard in my opinion unless we luck out with the right ping pong ball. Drafting 5-10 I believe is too high for players like Monya, Rice, Dreijer, and maybe Iguodala.

At SF Deng is obvious and I believe would be a wonderfull fit. I would even throw in Fizer to move up and get him. It is a little hard for me to see him lasting past Charlotte at 4, because his Duke heritage would also help them sell tickets. We do have a good chance at the next three SF's and B. Gordon at the guard spot. I figure the high schooler Smith and Warrick are the next best SF choices and maybe the tall canadian although I don't know that much about him. If Skiles is willing to play Gordon and Hinrich together some I would consider Gordon as a swing guard in a three guard rotation. If he was only to be used to backup Hinrich I would rather have one of the small forwards.

If the Bulls make a better run than anticipated and sneak into the playoffs, drafting 15th or so, then I think names like Monya, Rice, Dreijer, Iguodala, and maybe Childress and Wright come into the mix. One of those would be available at 15, but at 5-10 I am realistically hoping for Smith, Warrick, or Gordon.


----------



## BEEZ

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> I hate Miles, and Warrick reminds me on him. Super athlete, high ceiling, cant shoot a lick. I cant stand players like that. I am a fan of the Peja and old school Glen Rice type of 3. I also love the old school Pippen 3 but hardly anyone plays the point forward spot


So you hate one player because of another , That said, Warrick is a better mid range shooter now than Miles will ever be and he a better post scorer than Miles is now


----------



## rlucas4257

no, i dislike Warrick cause he cant shoot. He reminds me of Miles. And my 87 year old granma has a better midrange J then Miles, so the fact that Warrick is better doesnt say much. I know blind people who can shoot better


----------



## genex

*DMiles v. Augman*



> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> no, i dislike Warrick cause he cant shoot. He reminds me of Miles. And my 87 year old granma has a better midrange J then Miles, so the fact that Warrick is better doesnt say much. I know blind people who can shoot better


I like Warrick. He reminds me of Stacey Augmen. He is a lock up defender. Unlike DMiles, I think Warrick is the type of player who will insist on improving his O skills. He plays Defense with intensity and attitude. He doesnt mind the physical game. Now his O skills are pretty reudimentary but the workethic I beleive is there. I think Skiles would love him. Kind of like Artes but at 205 instead of 240.


----------



## curry_52

Warrick Update:

Hakim Warrick had 21 points and 12 rebounds, and the 17th-ranked Orangemen pulled away in the second half to beat Missouri 82-68 Monday night for their 12th straight victory.


http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=240120142


----------



## BEEZ

Rlucas, what I need to know is exactly what you are looking for in your small forward. A shooter or a slasher or a Pippen type player. Because game after game and I have been watching Syracuse all season and each game Warrick seems to show another facet of his game. You saying he cant shoot is not a valid observation of his game. He has been shooting the 15 footer well all season and each game he seems to extend his range a little bit more. His rebounding has been good and his defense has been excellent. Something the Bulls are definitley not receiving from they're SF's now.


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>BEEZ</b>!
> Rlucas, what I need to know is exactly what you are looking for in your small forward. A shooter or a slasher or a Pippen type player. Because game after game and I have been watching Syracuse all season and each game Warrick seems to show another facet of his game. You saying he cant shoot is not a valid observation of his game. He has been shooting the 15 footer well all season and each game he seems to extend his range a little bit more. His rebounding has been good and his defense has been excellent. Something the Bulls are definitley not receiving from they're SF's now.


What I want from my 3 is a Jiri Welsh, Peja Stoyacovich type. Smooth long distance shooting. Great off the ball, can hit the cutter with a bounce pass, can set the offense up when the guards are covered and can guard multiple positions. Of all the things that I have mentioned, I think Warrick can only guard multiple positions. Maybe he makes it, maybe he doesnt. But he is not what we need. He might just end up being Miles or Erob all over again. And with a team seriously lacking in spacing, Warricks lack of range doesnt make the problem better, but in actuallity much worse. If the kid doesnt have 3 point range on his J, then the Bulls shouldnt be interested.


----------



## BEEZ

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> What I want from my 3 is a Jiri Welsh, Peja Stoyacovich type. Smooth long distance shooting. Great off the ball, can hit the cutter with a bounce pass, can set the offense up when the guards are covered and can guard multiple positions. Of all the things that I have mentioned, I think Warrick can only guard multiple positions. Maybe he makes it, maybe he doesnt. But he is not what we need. He might just end up being Miles or Erob all over again. And with a team seriously lacking in spacing, Warricks lack of range doesnt make the problem better, but in actuallity much worse. If the kid doesnt have 3 point range on his J, then the Bulls shouldnt be interested.


Now I see what kind of 3 your looking for. There are none in this draft outside of Rice and hes going to be a poor mans tim thomas. Do you want that?


----------



## bullet

rlucas - most draft predictions put Romain Sato in the 2nd round,I have no freakin idea why!?!

NBA draft site gives him to us now on the 36th pick and thats a thing i'd sure love.


----------



## bullet

Matt Freije is a good shooter as well.

after seeing freshman Kris Humphries i'm starting to think in his direction as well,though not a proven shooter - yet.he's AWSOME!


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>BEEZ</b>!
> 
> 
> Now I see what kind of 3 your looking for. There are none in this draft outside of Rice and hes going to be a poor mans tim thomas. Do you want that?


id rather have the poor mans Tim Thomas then a Darius Miles if that answers your question 

Actually, Deng has a nice all around game. So does Sergei Monya, who I saw up close last week. These are 2 legit 3s who fit what we need. Andre Igoudala does everything but shoot. He maybe more of a 2. But Id rather have him then Warrick. I dont know anything about Antoine Wright. If anyone can enlighten me on him, id appreciate it.


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>bullet</b>!
> rlucas - most draft predictions put Romain Sato in the 2nd round,I have no freakin idea why!?!
> 
> NBA draft site gives him to us now on the 36th pick and thats a thing i'd sure love.


If we can add sato in the second round, then we have a star. But there is no way he is going to go there. Someone will get the Troy Bell/Dahntay Jones thing and take the safe guy in round one and take him. And they will be getting a heck of a player. I was even saying he was a sleeper for the lottery. I still think he could sneak into the top 12 with a strong showing the second half of the season and in the tournamenent. He has only one weakness that I can see and that he is a real bad dribbler


----------



## Benny the Bull

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> What I want from my 3 is a Jiri Welsh, Peja Stoyacovich type. Smooth long distance shooting. Great off the ball, can hit the cutter with a bounce pass, can set the offense up when the guards are covered and can guard multiple positions.


Actually not many player like that in the league, let alone in the draft. Deng, Drejer and Childress could be that type of player.


----------



## rlucas4257

All 3 of those would fit a ton better then Warrick. Add to your list Deng and Monya.


----------



## BEEZ

> Originally posted by <b>Benny the Bull</b>!
> 
> 
> Actually not many player like that in the league, let alone in the draft. Deng, Drejer and Childress could be that type of player.


Childress is not a better shooter than Warrick. Even though Childress will knock down an occasional 3


----------



## bullet

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> All 3 of those would fit a ton better then Warrick. Add to your list Deng and Monya.


actually i won't agree here.Hakim may not fit our team as those guys do but i think he's gonna be a good player.Only Deng is worth taking before hakim,in my opinion anyway.all the others we should trade down and still get one of them.I'm sure one of Monya,Drejer,Childers,Frieje,wright or Iguloada(sp??) will be available at 15-25 and we can trade down for a good SF/SG anyway.all those r not worth taking in the pick we all assume we gonna get.


----------



## rlucas4257

i am fairly certain Monya is long gone before 15. Igoudala might be. Warrick might be as well but we dont really want/need him. Drejer is a guy who could go top 12 or 18-24. His stock really can fluctuate from here on out. But the point is, there are a ton of 3s in this draft that might be able to help us. Warrick might grade out higher then Drejer for instance, but that doesnt mean he is the best fit for us. This isnt a post saying Warrick wont amount to anything. But what I am saying is that if the Bulls end up with him, he might be a bust. In another location surrounded by good shooters, he could be a good player. But can you imagine a front line of Chandler, Curry and Warrick? The combined range on the frontline is about 6 feet. There would be zero spacing


----------



## bullet

There is also Chirianev(probably not help right away).

still,rlucas,what i'm saying is if we don't get Deng or Okafur we should trade down and we still can get a good SF.

By the way,u should read Basghetti's thread ,its about antoine wright!


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>bullet</b>!
> There is also Chirianev(probably not help right away).
> 
> still,rlucas,what i'm saying is if we don't get Deng or Okafur we should trade down and we still can get a good SF.
> 
> By the way,u should read Basghetti's thread ,its about antoine wright!


I cant find that post. can you post the link to it? thanks mate


----------



## bullet

link about Antoine


----------



## bullet

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> thanks mate


R U an Aussy???


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>bullet</b>!
> link about Antoine


this is hugely interesting. i am going to have to go out of my way a bit to follow this kid. He sounds exciting


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>bullet</b>!
> 
> 
> R U an Aussy???


no, an american living in London who has sort of picked up a bit of their lingo. But I only use it with people that I like. And I do enjoy talking hoops with you Bullet. I am still appalled by the people who ranked you low.


----------



## bullet

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> no, an american living in London who has sort of picked up a bit of their lingo. But I only use it with people that I like. And I do enjoy talking hoops with you Bullet. I am still appalled by the people who ranked you low.


Thanks MATE!

my stats don't show the hole picture 

just kidding!


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>bullet</b>!
> 
> 
> Thanks MATE!
> 
> my stats don't show the hole picture
> 
> just kidding!


Hahaha

Thats right. There is no stat for getting a loose ball, or taking a charge, or setting a great off the ball pick. Those are the little things you give to the board!


----------



## bullet

rlucas - u gotta get some tape on Kris Humphries from Minny!

He's such a strong player and has a great NBA body.surely worth a checkup,i certainly was impressed.Very good athlete,and has more then a hustle offensive game,much more.very hard for opposing team defenders to handle since he never stops moving,very quick,amazing strength and can handle the ball.his J is still in the works,and is not a great passer,but still,i'd sure love to have him on my side(in a dark ally at night as well)


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>bullet</b>!
> rlucas - u gotta get some tape on Kris Humphries from Minny!
> 
> He's such a strong player and has a great NBA body.surely worth a checkup,i certainly was impressed.Very good athlete,and has more then a hustle offensive game,much more.very hard for opposing team defenders to handle since he never stops moving,very quick,amazing strength and can handle the ball.his J is still in the works,and is not a great passer,but still,i'd sure love to have him on my side(in a dark ally at night as well)


my request is in. and my quick report on Monya is coming up


----------



## bullet

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> my request is in. and my quick report on Monya is coming up


a month ago Monya was reported 6-9 and now he's 6-7.i hope he's not 5-11 by draft day.

P.s also Krypa got cut 1 inch(but i don't know if it was from the legs or the head)


----------



## Parabull

I'm not sure if this guy has already been talked about on the board, but have you looked at Leon Powe at Cal? He probably won't come out this year, but who knows. He might be a prototypical four, and thus basically useless to the Bulls, but he has quite a pedigree. He rebounds viciously and can flat out score, especially for a true freshman.

Also, Amit Tamir is 6-10, rebounds and can shoot the three (at least the college three). He passes well too. A little bit Radman like. He will probably go undrafted - might be a good guy to take a chance on in summer league.

I'm a big Cal fan, as you can probably tell.


----------



## rlucas4257

ok I watched Khyrapa and Monya last weekend here are some thoughts

Monya is a legit nba late lottery pick. Some people have him at 6-9, some have him at 6-7. If he is 6-7, he is the worlds biggest 6-7 guy. Id guess closer to 6-9. He is not your typical european player in that he really likes to put his head down and take it right at people. Sort of like Artest/Harpring in that way. Once open, he does a feathery touch out there so his offense game is nice. As seen on the website a couple of times before, this guy has a pro body. It amazes me he could be 19 or 20 years old, be 6-8/6-9 and weight 235-240 with little to no body fat. This kid really must live in the gym. He might be able to teach chandler a thing or 2 about strength and conditioning. He is a hard nosed defender. He reminds of me of Artest in that he seems to be able to handle the ball through all sorts of traffic with ease but then looks lost in the open court. It is a trait of alot of euros i have noticed. Smart player. the drawbacks are this. He doesnt have super athletic ability or length. while he has nice lateral quickness, his all out speed isnt great. his open court handle isnt good. Also, he seems to get an ordinate amount of charges called against him. Most guys are addicted to taking 3s, he is the exact opposite. For a guy who goes to the rim as hard as he does, he doesnt seem to draw a lot of fouls. But all in all, I was impressed. You have to love his size and touch. And I do like the lunch bucket attitude he brings to the game everytime. I was told to expect an Artest/Harpring type of player and that is what I got. Though I wouldnt say he would be as good as either. 

Khyrapa pulled his name out of the draft last year. He made a big splash in the euroleague tournament. Now this kid is raw. And the Kirilenko comparisons are a little unfair. But this kid is very interesting. He is bean pole skinny like AK47. But with great length, and to borrow a football expression, great motor. His range is about 3 feet however, but then again Kirilenko didnt have great range either. This kid doesnt have Kirilenkos ability to handle it either. But defensively and on the ball movement and off the ball, exactly the same. he is a major project, but so was Kirilenko when he came into the league. I say right now, that on draft day somebody will take a chance with him in round one. They may leave him in Moscow for a year more like Utah did with AK. But we will see. I think this kid has exciting upside. But it might be 3 years before he gets off of the bench


----------



## curry_52

rlucas, did you have the chance to scout Nocioni? Or did you just watch tape or read article/stats?

If you have indeed scouted him, what are your thoughts?


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> rlucas, did you have the chance to scout Nocioni? Or did you just watch tape or read article/stats?
> 
> If you have indeed scouted him, what are your thoughts?


only seen tape. and there is 3 guys on that team i would love to have. one guy i wont even bother trying to spell his name. Macausualikis or something like that. He is a FA as well who scored 42 in a euro league recently. Nocioni is a real bulldog of a player. I really like what i saw. I think he is a stud and will make a good starting 3 in the NBA. and Splitter. Any of those guys would be nice fits on the Bulls. Ill be in Spain mid Feb to watch this team live


----------



## curry_52

Macijauskas


----------



## curry_52

I wish I could find the tape of Nocioni dunking on KG and someone else face. That was one of the best dunks I have ever seen, especially since Nocioni was so young (I think he was 20)


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> I wish I could find the tape of Nocioni dunking on KG and someone else face. That was one of the best dunks I have ever seen, especially since Nocioni was so young (I think he was 20)


he is 23 or so now. He kind of plays like Mashburn if you ask me. He drives, he shoots, he gets boards. He is a hard nosed kid. He goes to the basket with each hand. He has a nice range. I couldnt find too many flaws in his game. he might not have a point forward aspect to his game, but thats about it. He isnt Gerald Wallace athletically either but does that matter? he is athletic enough. He has just been overshadowed a bit by this other guy that I wont bother typing his name. That guy is just been on fire for a month


----------



## curry_52

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> he is 23 or so now. He kind of plays like Mashburn if you ask me. He drives, he shoots, he gets boards. He is a hard nosed kid. He goes to the basket with each hand. He has a nice range. I couldnt find too many flaws in his game. he might not have a point forward aspect to his game, but thats about it. He isnt Gerald Wallace athletically either but does that matter? he is athletic enough. He has just been overshadowed a bit by this other guy that I wont bother typing his name. That guy is just been on fire for a month


Again, its Macijauskas. Its isnt so hard  

Latest update:
Tau Ceramica lost their road game at Tenerife 78-84. That was a big day of Bernard Hopkins, who lead Unelco team with 23 points. He had a great help from Nacho Ignacio Yanez (19 pts) and Sitapha Savane (12 pts). At Tau only Arvydas Macijauskas (19 pts) and Kornel David  (15 pts) showed in a good shape.


----------



## rlucas4257

we should sign Arvydas Macijauskas. Pure shot.


----------



## bullet

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> we should sign Arvydas Macijauskas. Pure shot.


I agree!!

very good idea.I once wrote that i think that he is not as good as Peja but better then Gordan.that would be a great catch for us,if he wanted to come play for bulls(I hope he watched MJ as a kid).

he can shoot from every angle and in many ways (smaller Chris Mullin)


----------



## andras

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> we should sign Arvydas Macijauskas. Pure shot.


you copy-pasted his name, right? :grinning: 
never seen him play myself, but what I read about definitely sounded interesting. on a more personale note I'd love my bulls to add one or more euros to the team. this way they might get shown on tele a lil more up here :sour:


----------



## truebluefan

hey lets resign David!!!   J/k


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>andras</b>!
> 
> 
> you copy-pasted his name, right? :grinning:
> never seen him play myself, but what I read about definitely sounded interesting. on a more personale note I'd love my bulls to add one or more euros to the team. this way they might get shown on tele a lil more up here :sour:


Bullet or Curry had the name. I had to do it a couple of times but I think I am spelling his name right. He is a nice player. While he shouldnt be talked about in the draft thread since he is technically a FA, he should certainly be part of our offseason plan. as well as Nocioni. Macijauskas, Emeka, Giricek and Nocioni this offseason would be a huge step in the right direction


----------



## curry_52

BTW, In that Macijauskas update (19 Points) you didnt see Nocioni name cause he is injured right now (And he was the heart and soul of Tau and the main reason for their early success).

:yes:


----------



## rlucas4257

2 things. Emeka, another ourstanding performance tonight. Damn I hope we have a chance for him.

A sleeper continues to emerge in Cincy as a Bulls draft pick. James White. He is playing nice ball for Cincy. He can do it all except shoot. lets see if he can continue to improve. he wouldnt go top 10 right now, but might. Freaky athlete and nice handles


----------



## curry_52

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 2 things. Emeka, another ourstanding performance tonight. Damn I hope we have a chance for him.
> 
> A sleeper continues to emerge in Cincy as a Bulls draft pick. James White. He is playing nice ball for Cincy. He can do it all except shoot. lets see if he can continue to improve. he wouldnt go top 10 right now, but might. Freaky athlete and nice handles


Whats the difference between James White and Miles? Its not sarcasm, I have seen James W only in highlights so I dont know his game. But Miles is a freaky athlete and cant shoot. Thats why Im asking.

I know Pax would kill to have a shot at Emeka and getting rid of either Chandler or Curry.


----------



## curry_52

Darius Rice line:
6-14 FG
6 Reb
1 ***
1 Stl
14 Points

Miami defeated St Johns 70-64

That *** is because of the damn assists


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> 
> 
> Whats the difference between James White and Miles? Its not sarcasm, I have seen James W only in highlights so I dont know his game. But Miles is a freaky athlete and cant shoot. Thats why Im asking.
> 
> I know Pax would kill to have a shot at Emeka and getting rid of either Chandler or Curry.


Thats the question. But the little I have seen of White is that he has nice mechanics. Just not the opportunity.

if pax does as you say with Emeka, ill be on the Pax bandwagon


----------



## bullet

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> Thats the question. But the little I have seen of White is that he has nice mechanics. Just not the opportunity.
> 
> if pax does as you say with Emeka, ill be on the Pax bandwagon


So would I.I think Emeka is the best player in the coming draft.Deng is next and the best fit for us,but we don't know yet how the team will look on draft day.


----------



## rlucas4257

How can this guy be in round 2. This might have well been Dwayne Wades scouting report last year as well

http://nbadraft.net/profiles/romainsato.asp


----------



## bullet

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> How can this guy be in round 2. This might have well been Dwayne Wades scouting report last year as well
> 
> http://nbadraft.net/profiles/romainsato.asp


It would be great to get him on the 2nd round,but maybe wishfull dreaming.

How about Kirk Snyder rlucas - have u seen him?

Another Kirk


----------



## rlucas4257

I have seen him. His stock is on the rise. Id take Sato first but who can pass another Kirk?


----------



## bullet

Well,to me it seems we might have a good option with a SG at the 2nd round

Sato,Snyder,Rickey Paulding,Luke Jackson and darius Rice at SF all can fall to the 2nd!


----------



## bullet

Oh,and Marcus Moore too


----------



## rlucas4257

Great article on Pavel and the Euros in Insider today. Pavel is really turning heads now and might go as high as 2. Maybe 1. He seems to be getting more minutes and is really developing a mean streak underneath. Tyrone Nesby plays with him now and calls him a potential franchiser. Here is a summary of the article

For Sures for next year

Pavel- Using his size. Offense/Defense/Post moves coming together. Medical condition is the only queston mark. But he says he will be cleared

Ivan Chiravev- Still Climbing. Great shooter, Handler, very athletic. Plays terrible competition

Sergei Monya- Most NBA ready. NBA Body and Strength. Aggressive on both ends of the court. Great midrange game. 3pter improving. Plays alot for a good team. Buyout is a big issue. Not a good open court handlers

Sasha Vujacic. Climbing. 6-7 PG plays some 2 in europe but will be NBA PG. having a good season. WIll need to get stronger and speed up his game some. Scouts see Brent Barry

Viktor Khyrapa- In no matter what. Good shooter. Scouts wonter about his quickness to guard 3s in the NBA. 350k buyout

Anderson Varajao- Only devent year for Barca. Great vs Team USA this summer. Athletic. Agressive on the boards and defensively. Scoring is his problem. Inconsistent. Did well this summer, not so great in euroleague

Ha Seung Jin- Huge. Decent Skills Nice touch. Very raw. VERY

WAIT AND SEE

Kosta Perovic- Break out year for Partizan (owned by Valude Divac). Got plenty of PT cause of injury to Nets #1 pick Nenad Krstic. Great Skills. Soft hands. Nice J. Good athlete/ Strength, Mobility and position are all question marks. but lots of talent. No buyout so thats bad. Divac has told Nenad he can leave this year. He probably wont let Perovic leave too.

Tiaggo Splitter- Good summer for Olympic qualifying. Playing for Tau, a great european team and in the rotation. NBA body. Defense ahead of Offense. Nice handle and a good, not great, J. Needs work on his post moves. Not fast enough for the 3 so has to ba a 4. Bad NBA buyout situation

Predrag Samardzski- Unbelievable skills. Great Range. Great post game. Dominates his games. Partizan wont let him play in senior games however. Also wont let scouts watch him practice. Strength and lateral quickness are question marks. 17years old. High Post 5. Bad buyout situatioon. If in, might sneak in as the number one pick

Andres Biedrins. Killed our best HS players this past summer. Really improved recently. Athletic rebounder and shotblocker. Offensive game is emerging. Very thing. Needs work on his J. Scouts are impressed despite the bad competition he plays against (latvian league). Buyout unclear. could be a high pick if in. 

Martynas Andriuskevicius (i dare anyone to pronounce that) F/C 7-1 Sleeper of the draft. impressed scouts at a Jr tournament. improving. Sabonis is working with the kid directly. Will be a high pick if declares, which is a question mark now.

Vladimir Veremeenko- Productive Year in Russia. Impresed at Jr Tournament. Size, athleticism and quickness are all strengths. bit of a tweener, but should be able to guard 3s. midseason injury hurt. a bit of sleeper. could go mid first with more exposure

Ivan Koljevic- 6-2 Put on a scoring show at the Global Games. Strong numbers this season. averaging a pt a minute. Is he a 2 or a 1. Thats the question. definite first rounder. but should stay in europe and play some more one. poor mans Ben Gordon

Uros Slokar- 6-10. Having a great year for Kukocs old team. maybe a bit of a tweener. Butat 6-10 he is intriguing to teams at the end of round one (hello San Antonio)

Next Year

Namanja Alekandrov 6-11 210. Many people say he is the best prospect in Europe no. Wont be in this draft. versatility , quickness, athleticism and basketball IQ are off the charts. leading candidate for the #1 pick next year. (i have seen this kid play. He is europes answer to Lebron)

Damir Omerhodzic 6-11 Unbelievable upside but no experience. Should stay in Europe and get a little more experience. Will be a high pick down the line

Manuchar Markoishvili G/F 6-6 Scouts love him but having an off year. Played in the Euro league final four as a 16 year old. 3 pt shot is questionable and his quickness is under the gun. But because of previous experience, he might give it a shot. Will probably come out in 05. If in for this draft, mid first rounder

Johan Petro 6-11 C/F Pau Orthez. Great athltic prospect down the road. But playing first year on the senior team and euroleauge. Struggles to make the rotation. Needs a little polis on the offensive end (I am very familiar with this kid as well. He is very reminisncet of a young Emeka Okafor. And slightly taller. Did well against our HSers last summer including Howard)

Roko Leni Ukic PG 6-5 Good size for the 1. Undisciplined lacks a solid shot and very thin. Needs a year or 2 to round up his game.

Dusan Sakota SF 6-11 One of the best shooters in the world. young Peja. Enormous potential. Razor thin (arent they all?) Once he bulks up, hell be a very high pick. 

best of the rest
Beno Udrih
Mo Ke China
Blagota Sekulic
Kresimir Loncar (to think this kid was a top 5 pick at one pt!)
Rodolfo Fernandez
Edu Hernandez (I am very familiar with this kid. If he is there at the end of round one, take him. He has much better skills and game then Ford is giving him credit for here)
Marcelo Huertas Brazil
Aleksander Capin
Marko Javanovic
Ioannis Boursousis

If anyone wants to chat with me. Ill be on this thread or please PM me.


----------



## bullet

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> Great article on Pavel and the Euros in Insider today. Pavel is really turning heads now and might go as high as 2. Maybe 1. He seems to be getting more minutes and is really developing a mean streak underneath. Tyrone Nesby plays with him now and calls him a potential franchiser. Here is a summary of the article
> 
> For Sures for next year
> 
> Pavel- Using his size. Offense/Defense/Post moves coming together. Medical condition is the only queston mark. But he says he will be cleared
> 
> Ivan Chiravev- Still Climbing. Great shooter, Handler, very athletic. Plays terrible competition
> 
> Sergei Monya- Most NBA ready. NBA Body and Strength. Aggressive on both ends of the court. Great midrange game. 3pter improving. Plays alot for a good team. Buyout is a big issue. Not a good open court handlers
> 
> Sasha Vujacic. Climbing. 6-7 PG plays some 2 in europe but will be NBA PG. having a good season. WIll need to get stronger and speed up his game some. Scouts see Brent Barry
> 
> Viktor Khyrapa- In no matter what. Good shooter. Scouts wonter about his quickness to guard 3s in the NBA. 350k buyout
> 
> Anderson Varajao- Only devent year for Barca. Great vs Team USA this summer. Athletic. Agressive on the boards and defensively. Scoring is his problem. Inconsistent. Did well this summer, not so great in euroleague
> 
> Ha Seung Jin- Huge. Decent Skills Nice touch. Very raw. VERY
> 
> WAIT AND SEE
> 
> Kosta Perovic- Break out year for Partizan (owned by Valude Divac). Got plenty of PT cause of injury to Nets #1 pick Nenad Krstic. Great Skills. Soft hands. Nice J. Good athlete/ Strength, Mobility and position are all question marks. but lots of talent. No buyout so thats bad. Divac has told Nenad he can leave this year. He probably wont let Perovic leave too.
> 
> Tiaggo Splitter- Good summer for Olympic qualifying. Playing for Tau, a great european team and in the rotation. NBA body. Defense ahead of Offense. Nice handle and a good, not great, J. Needs work on his post moves. Not fast enough for the 3 so has to ba a 4. Bad NBA buyout situation
> 
> Predrag Samardzski- Unbelievable skills. Great Range. Great post game. Dominates his games. Partizan wont let him play in senior games however. Also wont let scouts watch him practice. Strength and lateral quickness are question marks. 17years old. High Post 5. Bad buyout situatioon. If in, might sneak in as the number one pick
> 
> Andres Biedrins. Killed our best HS players this past summer. Really improved recently. Athletic rebounder and shotblocker. Offensive game is emerging. Very thing. Needs work on his J. Scouts are impressed despite the bad competition he plays against (latvian league). Buyout unclear. could be a high pick if in.
> 
> Martynas Andriuskevicius (i dare anyone to pronounce that) F/C 7-1 Sleeper of the draft. impressed scouts at a Jr tournament. improving. Sabonis is working with the kid directly. Will be a high pick if declares, which is a question mark now.
> 
> Vladimir Veremeenko- Productive Year in Russia. Impresed at Jr Tournament. Size, athleticism and quickness are all strengths. bit of a tweener, but should be able to guard 3s. midseason injury hurt. a bit of sleeper. could go mid first with more exposure
> 
> Ivan Koljevic- 6-2 Put on a scoring show at the Global Games. Strong numbers this season. averaging a pt a minute. Is he a 2 or a 1. Thats the question. definite first rounder. but should stay in europe and play some more one. poor mans Ben Gordon
> 
> Uros Slokar- 6-10. Having a great year for Kukocs old team. maybe a bit of a tweener. Butat 6-10 he is intriguing to teams at the end of round one (hello San Antonio)
> 
> Next Year
> 
> Namanja Alekandrov 6-11 210. Many people say he is the best prospect in Europe no. Wont be in this draft. versatility , quickness, athleticism and basketball IQ are off the charts. leading candidate for the #1 pick next year. (i have seen this kid play. He is europes answer to Lebron)
> 
> Damir Omerhodzic 6-11 Unbelievable upside but no experience. Should stay in Europe and get a little more experience. Will be a high pick down the line
> 
> Manuchar Markoishvili G/F 6-6 Scouts love him but having an off year. Played in the Euro league final four as a 16 year old. 3 pt shot is questionable and his quickness is under the gun. But because of previous experience, he might give it a shot. Will probably come out in 05. If in for this draft, mid first rounder
> 
> Johan Petro 6-11 C/F Pau Orthez. Great athltic prospect down the road. But playing first year on the senior team and euroleauge. Struggles to make the rotation. Needs a little polis on the offensive end (I am very familiar with this kid as well. He is very reminisncet of a young Emeka Okafor. And slightly taller. Did well against our HSers last summer including Howard)
> 
> Roko Leni Ukic PG 6-5 Good size for the 1. Undisciplined lacks a solid shot and very thin. Needs a year or 2 to round up his game.
> 
> Dusan Sakota SF 6-11 One of the best shooters in the world. young Peja. Enormous potential. Razor thin (arent they all?) Once he bulks up, hell be a very high pick.
> 
> best of the rest
> Beno Udrih
> Mo Ke China
> Blagota Sekulic
> Kresimir Loncar (to think this kid was a top 5 pick at one pt!)
> Rodolfo Fernandez
> Edu Hernandez (I am very familiar with this kid. If he is there at the end of round one, take him. He has much better skills and game then Ford is giving him credit for here)
> Marcelo Huertas Brazil
> Aleksander Capin
> Marko Javanovic
> Ioannis Boursousis
> 
> If anyone wants to chat with me. Ill be on this thread or please PM me.


Great stuff rlucas.

I can only say we don't pick Pavel unless it's for a trade draft day!


----------



## curry_52

I dont want Pavel, thank you.


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> I dont want Pavel, thank you.


No one is saying that we should take Pavel. But him going high helps the Bulls a ton. It pushes Emeka or Deng down a spot. So yes, we should be rooting for Pavels stock to climb.


----------



## bullet

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> No one is saying that we should take Pavel. But him going high helps the Bulls a ton. It pushes Emeka or Deng down a spot. So yes, we should be rooting for Pavels stock to climb.


I'm with u!

7-5 and can move!


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>bullet</b>!
> 
> 
> I'm with u!
> 
> 7-5 and can move!


Go Pavel Go

Plus I dont think Pax has the guts to take this kid to be honest. But I hope Matt Lloyd isnt reading this. They may just take me up on that dare


----------



## curry_52

Last year, no one was that impressed with Pavel and everyone qualified him as a good prospect that would take some years to develop. So after staying 1 more year in Russia he is going to come and dominate? No. 
I dont want to rebuild again and have a potential bust in Pavel. His health is a big question mark and his game isnt far from that. Any team would be better off by having Curry than Pavel for the next 3 years and certainly more. 
I have no problem with Pavel stock climbing, I know Paxson wont take him and Im glad about that.


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> Last year, no one was that impressed with Pavel and everyone qualified him as a good prospect that would take some years to develop. So after staying 1 more year in Russia he is going to come and dominate? No.
> I dont want to rebuild again and have a potential bust in Pavel. His health is a big question mark and his game isnt far from that. Any team would be better off by having Curry than Pavel for the next 3 years and certainly more.
> I have no problem with Pavel stock climbing, I know Paxson wont take him and Im glad about that.


Pavel plays with Varese in Italy and is doing pretty well. Otherwise, I would say I dont want him. He may turn out to be a monster, but I just dont think we have the time that it may take to develop him


----------



## curry_52

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> Pavel plays with Varese in Italy and is doing pretty well. Otherwise, I would say I dont want him. He may turn out to be a monster, but I just dont think we have the time that it may take to develop him


Pax doesnt have time as well to develop, so he wont take another prospect like Smith, Howard or Pavel. 
Emeka is the most NBA ready prospect but other than that, the Bulls wont get inmediate help from next year Draft (Unless they trade their Draft Pick).


----------



## rlucas4257

It has to be Emeka and a trade of Curry or Chandler. That has to be the way Pax goes. Though this list has a couple of guys who will slip to round 2 that we should look at


----------



## curry_52

BTW, you better check his stats again. I dont think that stats reflect how well he is doing.


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> BTW, you better check his stats again. I dont think that stats reflect how well he is doing.



?


----------



## curry_52

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> It has to be Emeka and a trade of Curry or Chandler. That has to be the way Pax goes. Though this list has a couple of guys who will slip to round 2 that we should look at


I wouldnt trade Curry, not in favour of Emeka. I think next year will be Eddy Curry year and you can be sure you will watch him in the best shape of his life. Add to that 1 more year under his belt, under Skiles and some vets (Plus having New Orleans with Magloire and PJ Brown out west), and he should get consideration for Most Improved Player. 
Chandler, on the other hand, .....


----------



## curry_52

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ?


Do you know how many points, rebounds, minutes, etc he is averaging?


----------



## curry_52

Pavel Stats:

Last Game
18 Minutes
2 Points (1-4 FG)
4 Rebounds (1 Offensive)


For the season
2 PPG
8 MPG
45% FG
63% FT
1.7 RPG
0.1 APG


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> 
> 
> I wouldnt trade Curry, not in favour of Emeka. I think next year will be Eddy Curry year and you can be sure you will watch him in the best shape of his life. Add to that 1 more year under his belt, under Skiles and some vets (Plus having New Orleans with Magloire and PJ Brown out west), and he should get consideration for Most Improved Player.
> Chandler, on the other hand, .....


im with you. id deal tyson first


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> Pavel Stats:
> 
> Last Game
> 18 Minutes
> 2 Points (1-4 FG)
> 4 Rebounds (1 Offensive)
> 
> 
> For the season
> 2 PPG
> 8 MPG
> 45% FG
> 63% FT
> 1.7 RPG
> 0.1 APG


no pt at the beginning of the year


----------



## curry_52

But he isnt getting much playing time right now either, so he will have a long way in the NBA before he starts contributing. I dont think he will be Darko II (In the sense of getting little -or zero- playing time) but he will be a bench warmer for some seasons.
I mean, Pavel will still gather attention even if he scores 5 points or grabs 3 rebounds. After all, he is like 7-5 and 310.


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> But he isnt getting much playing time right now either, so he will have a long way in the NBA before he starts contributing. I dont think he will be Darko II (In the sense of getting little -or zero- playing time) but he will be a bench warmer for some seasons.
> I mean, Pavel will still gather attention even if he scores 5 points or grabs 3 rebounds. After all, he is like 7-5 and 310.


Well recently he has had big impacts on games. However, I 100% agree with you, and have for the last 5 posts. Pavel isnt what the Bulls need. And Pavel is a 2-4 year project. Again, the Bulls dont need to wait. Plus I doubt Pax has the b-a-l-l-s to take him. So i wouldnt worry about Pavel being in a Bulls uniform. But I do think Pavel will emerge as a good to great player in the NBA given time. I again will see him live in Feb. Lets root for Pavel because everyday that he climbs means we are that much closer to Emeka Okafor or Luol Deng.


----------



## curry_52

I will keep updating Pavel stats game by game for those interested


----------



## curry_52

Ha, I ended posting that last message and went to see if there were any updates. Guess what? We have one, and Pavel team lost to Scavolini Pesaro, today, 92-82

Pavel Stats (He was in the starting lineup):
15 Minutes
2 Points
1-2 FG (0-1 3pt)
3 Rebounds (No off rebound)


----------



## bullet

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> Ha, I ended posting that last message and went to see if there were any updates. Guess what? We have one, and Pavel team lost to Scavolini Pesaro, today, 92-82
> 
> Pavel Stats (He was in the starting lineup):
> 15 Minutes
> 2 Points
> 1-2 FG (0-1 3pt)
> 3 Rebounds (No off rebound)


Did u see the game Curry 52?


----------



## curry_52

> Originally posted by <b>bullet</b>!
> 
> 
> Did u see the game Curry 52?


:no:


----------



## bullet

I think i saw the guy once and he did look like a stiff to me.

but rlucas does'nt allow this talk on his thread so lets just say i need to get glasses....


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>bullet</b>!
> I think i saw the guy once and he did look like a stiff to me.
> 
> but rlucas does'nt allow this talk on his thread so lets just say i need to get glasses....


haha, if he is a stiff, call him in a stiff. its a-ok with me. But I hear that he is getting it


----------



## bullet

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> haha, if he is a stiff, call him in a stiff. its a-ok with me. But I hear that he is getting it


I hope he gets it,and we get Okafur(22 pnts allready)


----------



## bullet

rlucas - maybe we should have a talk about this guy:

Rashad McCants


----------



## curry_52

Seriously, would anyone (any GM) consider taking Pavel over Emeka?


----------



## bullet

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> Seriously, would anyone (any GM) consider taking Pavel over Emeka?


I don't think so Curry_52

but quite close behind him - ya


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> Seriously, would anyone (any GM) consider taking Pavel over Emeka?


There are a couple. Kiki, Dumars, guys that put alot of emphasis on the european game might. But I think they are crazy


----------



## curry_52

Its not a matter of European vs American, but Emeka skills and "readyness" compared to Pavel. 

Maybe if we bring back JK we can field this lineup:

C: Pavel
PF: Curry
SF: Chandler


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> Its not a matter of European vs American, but Emeka skills and "readyness" compared to Pavel.
> 
> Maybe if we bring back JK we can field this lineup:
> 
> C: Pavel
> PF: Curry
> SF: Chandler


thank god we wont see that. but I do believe there are more GMs out there then are imaginable who would take the big guy over Emeka. It sounds crazy, but Darko did go before Carmello, so it can happen


----------



## curry_52

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> thank god we wont see that. but I do believe there are more GMs out there then are imaginable who would take the big guy over Emeka. It sounds crazy, but Darko did go before Carmello, so it can happen


Darko will eventually be a very good player. I like Carmelo but I think he is not in the same class of LeBron. 

I think Pavel will have a hard time being ahead of Okafor in the draft board. Todays edition of the Orlando Sentinel say that if Orlando gets #1, they will pick Pavel.


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> 
> 
> Darko will eventually be a very good player. I like Carmelo but I think he is not in the same class of LeBron.
> 
> I think Pavel will have a hard time being ahead of Okafor in the draft board. Todays edition of the Orlando Sentinel say that if Orlando gets #1, they will pick Pavel.


wow? really. they would do that? Thats nuts. can you post a link mate?


----------



## curry_52

Sorry, I took it from a rumours site since you have to register @ Orlando Sentinel online.

Here you go:
If the Magic land the top NBA lottery pick, they likely will pick 7-foot-4, 260-pound Russian center Pavel Podkolzi.
Podkolzi, 19, wowed scouts at the NBA draft camp last year, but withdrew his name from consideration -- he's having surgery to correct a pituitary gland problem. Other possibilities for the top pick are high-school phenom Dwight Howard, and UConn forward Emeka Okafor and point guard Ben Gordon. Source: Orlando Sentinel


----------



## curry_52

This is what I got from the Magic Message Board (Sentinel):

"If the Magic do land the top NBA lottery pick -- and they're losing enough to do it -- they likely will pick 7-foot-4, 260-pound Russian giant Pavel Podkolzine. 

General Manager John Gabriel said the Magic have seen Podkolzine, who currently is playing in Italy, four times. 

Podkolzine, who turned 19 on Thursday, withdrew from last year's draft after wowing scouts at a camp in Chicago. He reportedly pulled out because he was suffering from a pituitary-gland ailment. 

Gabriel said Podkolzine is expected to have surgery to correct the problem. 

High-school phenom Dwight Howard also is on the Magic's radar, along with forward Emeka Okafor and point guard Ben Gordon, who both play for Connecticut. "


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> This is what I got from the Magic Message Board (Sentinel):
> 
> "If the Magic do land the top NBA lottery pick -- and they're losing enough to do it -- they likely will pick 7-foot-4, 260-pound Russian giant Pavel Podkolzine.
> 
> General Manager John Gabriel said the Magic have seen Podkolzine, who currently is playing in Italy, four times.
> 
> Podkolzine, who turned 19 on Thursday, withdrew from last year's draft after wowing scouts at a camp in Chicago. He reportedly pulled out because he was suffering from a pituitary-gland ailment.
> 
> Gabriel said Podkolzine is expected to have surgery to correct the problem.
> 
> High-school phenom Dwight Howard also is on the Magic's radar, along with forward Emeka Okafor and point guard Ben Gordon, who both play for Connecticut. "


Thanks mate. I wouldnt have caught this unless you gave it to me. I think it would be a reach by Orlando. But it does make sense from one aspect. They have Drew Gooden, and as of today, Juwan Howard. So they dont really need a 4. They may think Emeka is a 4 and Pavel would make some sense since they havent had a 5 since Shaq was there and there is no PGs worthy of picking 1. 

BTW, I think Emeka is a 4 on offense but he is a defensive 5


----------



## curry_52

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> Thanks mate. I wouldnt have caught this unless you gave it to me. I think it would be a reach by Orlando. But it does make sense from one aspect. They have Drew Gooden, and as of today, Juwan Howard. So they dont really need a 4. They may think Emeka is a 4 and Pavel would make some sense since they havent had a 5 since Shaq was there and there is no PGs worthy of picking 1.
> 
> BTW, I think Emeka is a 4 on offense but he is a defensive 5


How many scoring 5s are out there? How many NBA 5s could give Emeka some fits? I think you can count em with only 1 hand.


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> 
> 
> How many scoring 5s are out there? How many NBA 5s could give Emeka some fits? I think you can count em with only 1 hand.


i think he could play them. everyone but Shaq and Yao. but they would have trouble with him too. But id rather put him next to Curry and let him play the 4. Just my opinion


----------



## rlucas4257

I just had a scary thought, Cleveland wins the lottery and gets Emeka. Emeka and Lebron +wagner, z and boozer is about 5 titles there


----------



## curry_52

It aint happening!!!!!!!!

If they get a high pick, they could still field a great team (example):

Z
Boozer
Deng
Wagner
LeBron


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> It aint happening!!!!!!!!
> 
> If they get a high pick, they could still field a great team (example):
> 
> Z
> Boozer
> Deng
> Wagner
> LeBron


Lebron and Deng
Jordan and Pippen

History repeats itself


----------



## curry_52

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> Lebron and Deng
> Jordan and Pippen
> 
> History repeats itself


:yes:


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> 
> 
> :yes:


The best thing for Cleveland is getting a top 3 pick. Emeka, Howard, Deng. I doubt Pavel would be a fit there. But they are going to be really scary


----------



## curry_52

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> The best thing for Cleveland is getting a top 3 pick. Emeka, Howard, Deng. I doubt Pavel would be a fit there. But they are going to be really scary


If the Bulls keep *, I will start rooting for LeBron and the Cavs. Unlike Kobe, for example, LeBron is the kinda guy that makes you love him. I have nothing but respect for LBJ. 
Obviously, I will always be a Bulls fan but root for the next great player.


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> 
> 
> If the Bulls keep *, I will start rooting for LeBron and the Cavs. Unlike Kobe, for example, LeBron is the kinda guy that makes you love him. I have nothing but respect for LBJ.
> Obviously, I will always be a Bulls fan but root for the next great player.


thats kind of like I am. I am a far bigger fan of the game then an individual team. I like to see the game played right. Id rather see Lebron win then say Shaq. Guys like Lebron and Duncan play the way it was suppose to be. They win on skill, not by being bigger then everyone else


----------



## curry_52

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> thats kind of like I am. I am a far bigger fan of the game then an individual team. I like to see the game played right. Id rather see Lebron win then say Shaq. Guys like Lebron and Duncan play the way it was suppose to be. They win on skill, not by being bigger then everyone else


Give Shaq some love. Im not saying I want him to win, but its not all about being bigger. I know he is an illegal weapon but the Rockets arent winning with Yao and teams would kill to draft 6-9 Okafor over 7-5 Pavel.


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> 
> 
> Give Shaq some love. Im not saying I want him to win, but its not all about being bigger. I know he is an illegal weapon but the Rockets arent winning with Yao and teams would kill to draft 6-9 Okafor over 7-5 Pavel.


some teams will take Pavel over Emeka. As crazy as it sounds, it always happens. 

My thing with shaq is this. if he were 3 inches shorter, he wouldnt be shaq oneal, he would be oliver miller. I just dont have alot of respect for guys who win cause they are bigger then everyone else. Yao has skills


----------



## curry_52

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> some teams will take Pavel over Emeka. As crazy as it sounds, it always happens.
> 
> My thing with shaq is this. if he were 3 inches shorter, he wouldnt be shaq oneal, he would be oliver miller. I just dont have alot of respect for guys who win cause they are bigger then everyone else. Yao has skills


You will find guys with Shaq type bodies, he is more than that. But if you put Zach Randolph in Shaq body, he could very well dominate this league as well.


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> 
> 
> You will find guys with Shaq type bodies, he is more than that. But if you put Zach Randolph in Shaq body, he could very well dominate this league as well.


Jerome James comes to mind. But i always go with the skill guys over the pure power guys. Just a personal preference


----------



## curry_52

See ya tomorrow mate!!

:wave:


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> See ya tomorrow mate!!
> 
> :wave:


Later! Hopefully I can dig up some draft articles tomorrow


----------



## curry_52

Eh, some Draft Thread pages are missing, WTF?!?!?!??

:hurl:


----------



## cheezdoodle

yeah, I posted something super long about all the basketball games I watched yesterday, I bet no one got to see that.  

Hopefully they will get them back.


----------



## depeche mode lives

the best parts of this thread are gone!


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>depeche mode lives</b>!
> the best parts of this thread are gone!


Depeche Mode Lives, has to be one of the great names on this board. Didnt Dave Gahan kill himself or did he survive?


----------



## Lusty RaRue

Nice article on Deng. 2nd to last paragraph includes speculation by the writer that Deng won't declare for the 2004 draft. Deng's comments in the last paragraph make him all the more desireable a pick IMO. 

http://www.sunspot.net/sports/bal-sp.duke20jan20,0,4093016.story?coll=bal-sports-headlines


----------



## curry_52

> Originally posted by <b>Lusty RaRue</b>!
> Nice article on Deng. 2nd to last paragraph includes speculation by the writer that Deng won't declare for the 2004 draft. Deng's comments in the last paragraph make him all the more desireable a pick IMO.
> 
> http://www.sunspot.net/sports/bal-sp.duke20jan20,0,4093016.story?coll=bal-sports-headlines


Yeah, I posted this in the "old" thread-


----------



## MiSTa iBN

*Some of you are overrating Luol Deng*

I'm a Duke fan and I've watched my fair share of games this year, and let it be known..Luol Deng will not be a superstar especially on offense next year if he ever decides to leave early. He does rebound well and defends well, but I don't think he has that sudden quickness that Carmello Anthony possesses or offensive repetoire. He's a good passer, he's not a great shooter right now, and he's decent at creating his own shot on the college level. He will help the Bulls out, but if you think he's gonna be that scorer you look for at the 3 spot right away think again..He has ways to go.


----------



## curry_52

Pax should try to sign one of this guys (I dont know who is coming back next year and who are FAs):
Macijauskas
Nocioni
Oberto


----------



## cheezdoodle

*Re: Some of you are overrating Luol Deng*



> Originally posted by <b>MiSTa iBN</b>!
> I'm a Duke fan and I've watched my fair share of games this year, and let it be known..Luol Deng will not be a superstar especially on offense next year if he ever decides to leave early. He does rebound well and defends well, but I don't think he has that sudden quickness that Carmello Anthony possesses or offensive repetoire. He's a good passer, he's not a great shooter right now, and he's decent at creating his own shot on the college level. He will help the Bulls out, but if you think he's gonna be that scorer you look for at the 3 spot right away think again..He has ways to go.


I don't think the Bulls necessarily need a superstar. Deng to me is like Caron Butler with a consistent three point shot. A little more athletic I guess.

He does have a great work ethic though (like Caron used to have ) so he will likely improve leaps and bounds and become a legit allstar by about his third season.


----------



## rlucas4257

*Re: Re: Some of you are overrating Luol Deng*



> Originally posted by <b>cheezdoodle</b>!
> 
> 
> I don't think the Bulls necessarily need a superstar. Deng to me is like Caron Butler with a consistent three point shot. A little more athletic I guess.
> 
> He does have a great work ethic though (like Caron used to have ) so he will likely improve leaps and bounds and become a legit allstar by about his third season.


he isnt going to have a Carmello like impact on day one, but he might be a better all around player in 2 or 3 years. I dont think that is a reach at all


----------



## bullet

*Re: Re: Re: Some of you are overrating Luol Deng*



> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> he isnt going to have a Carmello like impact on day one, but he might be a better all around player in 2 or 3 years. I dont think that is a reach at all


I like Deng a lot,though I don't think he will be as good as Carmello.
Deng is a smart player with a lot o talent and good ethic,but i think he lacks Mello's killer scoring instincts.Mello 'knows' he can score on anyone...

Deng is more complete,but still Mello is the man among those 2 (only my opinion)


----------



## Benny the Bull

What do we think the chances of Deng coming out this year are? I have a feeling he will be at Duke for at least another season. 

If this is the case, if we are looking at the draft for a player to contribute right away, then Okafor is the man.


----------



## bullet

> Originally posted by <b>Benny the Bull</b>!
> What do we think the chances of Deng coming out this year are? I have a feeling he will be at Duke for at least another season.
> 
> If this is the case, if we are looking at the draft for a player to contribute right away, then Okafor is the man.


I think Okafur is the man with or without Deng.and i also agree there is a good chance Deng will stay another season in Duke...


----------



## BEEZ

> Originally posted by <b>bullet</b>!
> 
> 
> I think Okafur is the man with or without Deng.and i also agree there is a good chance Deng will stay another season in Duke...


Personally I only draft Okafor if I am going to trade him and or trade Chandler or Curry


----------



## rlucas4257

Deng will most likely stay at Duke I am afraid. But if he is guaranteed to be in the top 4, its going to be hard for him to say no. But its Duke. I will change my mind if they win the championship

Its Okafor now with Curry or chandler being dealt.


----------



## bullet

> Originally posted by <b>BEEZ</b>!
> 
> 
> Personally I only draft Okafor if I am going to trade him and or trade Chandler or Curry


My thinking too.take Okafur,trade EC for me.


----------



## rlucas4257

FYI Deng 13 pts 12 bds last night, looked very efficient


----------



## Lusty RaRue

Well, I don't want to trade either TC or EC. I don't see Okafor as a 5. I don't post trade threads on this forum anymore.

But...

If Deng stays in school and

if Curry isn't working out and 

if Chandler's back is OK and

if Okafor is available at the Bull pick, 

then a deal with

EC/ER for Wright/Battier

as the base works for me.


P.S.: If there is a better 2/3 in college than Francisco Garcia(stick figure build and all) then I haven't seen or heard of him.


----------



## rlucas4257

is there any good basketball games this weekend so we can see if anyone is on the rise this weekend?


----------



## cheezdoodle

Duke at Georgetown on CBS on Saturday 2 PM EST, Duhon+Deng.

[email protected] ESPN 2 at 8 PM. Warrick+Julius Page and Carl Krauser (2nd round prospects)

Virginia @North Carolina 12 Noon. ESPN Felton

[email protected] 4 PM CBS Drejer+Lee. I'll be at this game

Sunday:

[email protected] Tennessee 7 ESPN. Francisco Garcia (sleeper for this draft. I love this kid's game. He's only a Sophomore but he is 22)

[email protected] Notre Dame 4 PM CBS. Awesome game! Torin Francis (won't declare but this kid is great), Chris Thomas (borderline), Gerald Fitch (2nd rounder). West coast people will see Oregon (Luke Jackson, high 2nd rounder, point forward) vs. Arizona (my boys. Iguodala! Frye too is solid)

Michigan [email protected] Purdue 2 PM CBS. Paul Davis, Shannon Brown (2005)


----------



## Darius Miles Davis

I got to see Luke Jackson for the first time this year. He looked great, although I wasn't convinced from this game that he would be a great NBA player. He's got a shot, some handle, some post moves, and great passing skills though. 21 pts, 7 rebounds and 12 assists yesterday in a very competitive road win over ASU.


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>Darius Miles Davis</b>!
> I got to see Luke Jackson for the first time this year. He looked great, although I wasn't convinced from this game that he would be a great NBA player. He's got a shot, some handle, some post moves, and great passing skills though. 21 pts, 7 rebounds and 12 assists yesterday in a very competitive road win over ASU.


Damn ASU, why cant they ever turn it around!


----------



## bullet

> Originally posted by <b>Darius Miles Davis</b>!
> I got to see Luke Jackson for the first time this year. He looked great, although I wasn't convinced from this game that he would be a great NBA player. He's got a shot, some handle, some post moves, and great passing skills though. 21 pts, 7 rebounds and 12 assists yesterday in a very competitive road win over ASU.


I'm with ya DMD,I love this guy.we won't know untill he's in the league,but I'd give him at least being a solid player.


----------



## Wild Wild West

Several observations on the evolving nature of prospective Bull's draft picks and priorities.

1. Deng may not come out- this is bad for the Bulls on two fronts, he may be the best fit, and if he doesn't come out other SF's like Smith move up possibly out of our range.

2. The big foreign centers seem to be slipping- At the beginning of the season many draft predictions had Perovic and Jin much higher. Only Podkolzine remains near the top. Once again this is bad for the Bulls, because Perovic and Jin could have pushed more swing players to us.

3. As the dissappointing season continues, a higher than anticipated pick becomes more and more likely- I still think a Chandler return could result in a run pushing us past Orlando, Atlanta, Cleveland, and maybe Phoenix. Washington could also make a spurt if Arenas and Stackhouse are both healthy. Miami could be tough but possible to catch, but the other western teams are probably out of reach, as is probably NY after the Marbury trade. I would revise my most likely draft range to 5-8. Figuring we beat Orlando, Atlanta, and Cleveland, and as I understand it the new team gets the 4th pick, so that puts us a 5, and if we pass Phoenix, Washinton, and Miami, as low as 8th. We could of course still luck out and get one of the top three picks and would be among the two or three teams with the best chance of moving up.

4. Some of the SF prospects have moved lower or failed to move up to the 5-8 range- It is looking like if we want them we could have our pick from Warrick, Iguodala, Childress, Monya, and Chiriaev. The question with those players is more do we want them that high, as the will they be available question becomes more certain, if they come out of course.

5. The guard situation has changed in the last few weeks- Previously Gordon was the only high lottery prospect. now the high school kid Livingston, is in there, and Nelson's play has moved him near that level. 

6. The untouchable list on the Bulls is probably down to Hinrich and maybe Chandler- Earlier after the Toronto trade it appeared there were four young pieces in place, leaving SF and backup guards as future priorities. now it looks like Crawford and curry may not be part of the long term mix. I still hope they are because if we write them off we are pretty much back to starting over, but those possibilities increase the chance of drafting another guard with the first pick, or a PF or C like Okafor or Pavel. A couple of months ago I would have thought the probability of a PF or C with the first pick was close to zero, and a guard was possible, but more to be a backup. Now we might be looking for a replacement for Crawford or Curry and maybe Chandler. 

7. If we don't get Deng or Smith, maybe we trade the pick- I still prefer a SF, but the gap between Deng/Smith and the rest of the field seems at SF seems significant. Do we reach a little with the next group or trade the pick, or possiby Fizer and others to get say Battier, Butler etc. Memphis and Miami might want to get Pavel if we have a crack at him or Perovic, Jin, Harrison etc. I think I would prefer a Battier/Butler level player at the right position to the other SF prospects, but maybe one of them will come on and justify a higher selection. 

8. Why isn't F. Garcia mentioned from Louisville?- Maybe he is staying put, but i have to believe he belongs in the top dozen or so prospects.

9. What to root for?- A late season run that gives hope with Chandler in the lineup, and Curry and Crawford maintaining their disturbing tradition of only playing well the second half of the season. Leaving us with a very good but not great pick. Hope for Duke to have enough glory in their season for Deng to give the pros a shot. Hope for Smith to declare as well. Look for Warrick, Iguodala, Childress, Garcia to raise their stock and their teams to do well in the tournament. Hope that Chiraev is not a myth, and Monya is as good or better than advertised. And finally hope for our ping pong ball to come up!


----------



## rlucas4257

I thought it would be an interesting look to compare, statistically, Duncan to Okafor from their last years in School. Remember that Duncan was a senior and Okafor only a junior. But thought it owuld be interesting anyway

NAME GMS MIN PTS REB AST TO A/T STL BLK PF FG% FT% 3P% PPS 
Emeka Okafor 16 31.0 19.1 11.4 0.9 2.3 1/2.5 0.9 5.1 2.2 .612 .551 .000 

SEASON TEAM G MIN FG FGA FG% FG3 FG3A FG3% FT FTA FT% PTS AVG 
1993-94 Wake Forest 33 997 120 220 54.5 1 1 100.0 82 110 74.5 323 9.8 
1994-95 Wake Forest 32 1168 208 352 59.1 3 7 42.9 118 159 74.2 537 16.8 
1995-96 Wake Forest 32 1190 228 411 55.5 7 23 30.4 149 217 68.7 612 19.1 
1996-97 Wake Forest 31 1137 234 385 60.8 6 22 27.3 171 269 63.6 645 20.8 

COLLEGE MORE STATS 

SEASON TEAM G MIN REB RAVG A AAVG STL SAVG BLK BAVG 
1993-94 Wake Forest 33 997 317 9.6 30 0.9 0 0.0 0 0.0 
1994-95 Wake Forest 32 1168 401 12.5 67 2.1 0 0.0 0 0.0 
1995-96 Wake Forest 32 1190 395 12.3 93 2.9 0 0.0 0 0.0 
1996-97 Wake Forest 31 1137 457 14.7 98 3.2 0 0.0 0 0.0 
TOTAL 128 4492 1570 12.3 288 2.2 0 0.0 0 0.0 



I actually couldnt cut and paste one year so here is the entire career


----------



## cheezdoodle

That was a great post WWW. My opinion:

1. I think you guys are worrying a little too much about Deng. He is saying the same exact things that Carmello Anthony was saying last year, even up to the final game of the NCAA tournament. It is not nice to openly talk about the draft while your team is making a championship run. It could also hurt thier recruiting and it might affect whether Livingston decides to come to Duke. Deng is feeling great right now at Duke, he is the top scorer on the #1 team in the nation. And he is probably getting more love then he ever has in his entire life. Once the season ends though and he starts to realize how dumb it would be for him to turn down a top5 pick and over 10 million dollars in guaranteed cash, things will change. Almost every player in his shoes the past couple of years has said the same exact things, and very few actually did stay. I wouldn't worry too much about it. 

2. Perovic broke his hand (wrist?) the other day, that's why draftnet brought his stock down a little. He'll be out for 4-6 weeks or so and he probably won't get a chance to play in the Euroleague anymore. Will that affect his NBA career in anyway? Of course not. He's still the same player. Jin to me is a huge mystery. I have zero faith in the Yao Ming comparisons. I have a friend that scouted him last summer in the U-19 World championships in Greece and he had almost nothing positive to say about him. All the hype about him is coming from his agents, the SFX group. Take whatever you hear about him with a large grain of salt. I'd take Rafael Araujo or even David Harrison over him at this point. 

3. No comment  I hope the Heat lose as many games as possible. I'd love to have Okafor here as well. I'm so sold on him it's not even funny. 

4. Where is Drejer? :grinning: 

7. I'm sure the Grizzlies would trade you guys Battier for your pick if it's in the mid-late lotto. Ditto for Miami and Butler. 

8. I agree with you 100% about Garcia. I love the way this kid plays. Whether he comes out or not depends entirely on what Rick Pitino tells him to do. He has been great in the past at telling his players when to come out and making sure they get drafted high. He trusts him eyes closed and he's already said as much. Right now Garcia looks VERY skinny, way under 200 pounds and it doesn't really look like he has the frame to bulk up. He's a great all around player though, a true warrior and I look at him as a Tayshaun Prince type prospect. His family could really use the money (they are very poor I hear) and he is already 22 years old so this could very well be the year for him. We have him pegged as the #1 pick in the 2nd round and he will only be moving up from there.


----------



## MiSTa iBN

While Okafor's a good offensive threat, Tim Duncan was a much more intimidating presence on the offensive side of the ball. He was often double teamed and he faced alot of zone defense, the man was unstoppable on offense and also faced better competition while today's college game lacks superstar college ball players due to high schoolers and players in general leaving early.


----------



## cheezdoodle

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> I thought it would be an interesting look to compare, statistically, Duncan to Okafor from their last years in School. Remember that Duncan was a senior and Okafor only a junior. But thought it owuld be interesting anyway
> 
> NAME GMS MIN PTS REB AST TO A/T STL BLK PF FG% FT% 3P% PPS
> Emeka Okafor 16 31.0 19.1 11.4 0.9 2.3 1/2.5 0.9 5.1 2.2 .612 .551 .000
> 
> SEASON TEAM G MIN FG FGA FG% FG3 FG3A FG3% FT FTA FT% PTS AVG
> 1993-94 Wake Forest 33 997 120 220 54.5 1 1 100.0 82 110 74.5 323 9.8
> 1994-95 Wake Forest 32 1168 208 352 59.1 3 7 42.9 118 159 74.2 537 16.8
> 1995-96 Wake Forest 32 1190 228 411 55.5 7 23 30.4 149 217 68.7 612 19.1
> 1996-97 Wake Forest 31 1137 234 385 60.8 6 22 27.3 171 269 63.6 645 20.8
> 
> COLLEGE MORE STATS
> 
> SEASON TEAM G MIN REB RAVG A AAVG STL SAVG BLK BAVG
> 1993-94 Wake Forest 33 997 317 9.6 30 0.9 0 0.0 0 0.0
> 1994-95 Wake Forest 32 1168 401 12.5 67 2.1 0 0.0 0 0.0
> 1995-96 Wake Forest 32 1190 395 12.3 93 2.9 0 0.0 0 0.0
> 1996-97 Wake Forest 31 1137 457 14.7 98 3.2 0 0.0 0 0.0
> TOTAL 128 4492 1570 12.3 288 2.2 0 0.0 0 0.0
> 
> 
> 
> I actually couldnt cut and paste one year so here is the entire career


Here is their junior year stats, side by side. Crazy huh? 

Okafor: 19.7 pts, 11.7 rebounds, 5.1 blocks, 62% FG percentage 
Duncan: 19.1 pts, 12.3 rebounds, 3.8 blocks, 56% FG percentage

Duncan was playing almost by himself at Wake, Okafor is on the #1 team in America. The chances are very low that Okafor ever becomes what Duncan is right now in terms of scoring and dominating but I just can't see anyone passing on him with the #1 pick. He's just too much of a sure thing.


----------



## bullet

> Originally posted by <b>cheezdoodle</b>!
> 
> 
> Here is their junior year stats, side by side. Crazy huh?
> 
> Okafor: 19.7 pts, 11.7 rebounds, 5.1 blocks, 62% FG percentage
> Duncan: 19.1 pts, 12.3 rebounds, 3.8 blocks, 56% FG percentage
> 
> Duncan was playing almost by himself at Wake, Okafor is on the #1 team in America. The chances are very low that Okafor ever becomes what Duncan is right now in terms of scoring and dominating but I just can't see anyone passing on him with the #1 pick. He's just too much of a sure thing.


I agree.He's the man in this coming Draft.Maybe he does'nt have TD's ofensive arsenal(yet) but he still can score,and he's just great at every aspect of the game.I think he's got a good chance of leading the league in blocks at some point of his carrer(or maybe even throughout most of his upcoming carrer),he's an AMAZING shotblocker...


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>cheezdoodle</b>!
> 
> 
> Here is their junior year stats, side by side. Crazy huh?
> 
> Okafor: 19.7 pts, 11.7 rebounds, 5.1 blocks, 62% FG percentage
> Duncan: 19.1 pts, 12.3 rebounds, 3.8 blocks, 56% FG percentage
> 
> Duncan was playing almost by himself at Wake, Okafor is on the #1 team in America. The chances are very low that Okafor ever becomes what Duncan is right now in terms of scoring and dominating but I just can't see anyone passing on him with the #1 pick. He's just too much of a sure thing.


nutty huh? T

he similarities between the 2 are crazy. Sure, not the way they play but the people they are. both are cerebral warriors as well as athletically gifted. both had relatively late starts to the game, giving them huge upsides. the stats are identical. arguments can be made. Duncan could have scored more had he not had to face double and triple teams. I could counter that Duncan got the ball alot more then Emeka. Its crazy. But here is the thing. The case is being made right now. Emeka is the best big guy since Duncan to come out. And he has a shot at being an all NBA first team type eventually. 

no matter what anyone's personal feelings are towards chandler and curry, this kid is a better prospect and most likely a better player. The Bulls would be hard pressed to pass on him. With the Bulls likely having the worst record in the NBA by this team next week, the odds of us getting okafor grow. and i for one see this as the blue lining on a disastrous season. This kid is our guy, even if Deng is there. you just cant pass on a guy who plays ballz out like he does. I also spoke to an independent college scouting source who said dont be surprised when Emeka measures closer to 6-11 in the predraft camps then 6-9. If that is the case, and who really knows, then Emeka will certainly solidify himself going no less then #2. But right now, it does look like Howard is the #1 guy. Though not for us

One last thing, take last years crop and this years crop and combine them. Assume Deng is coming out. How would it go? Here is my stab

James
Okafor
Anthony
Howard
Deng

3 of the first 5 would be in this crop. And this crop is supposed to be weak (in the middle of the first i would agree). But I would take Okafor, Howard or Deng before Darko, Bosh or Wade. Just my 2 cents. We will be ok if the ping pong balls bounce our way.


----------



## Johnny Mac

Duncan played in a day when college basketball was very elite. Okafer is doing it against a very watered down version of college basketball. 

Afterall, Duncan came out in 1997, and 1996 was the best draft class in history. 

Stephon Marbury, Antoine Walker, Allen Iverson, Marcus Camby, Shareef Abdur Rahim, Lorenzen Wright, Erick Dampier

In THAT DAY, Camby was just as dominant as Duncan. Okafer could end up turning out like Camby as well. 

I love the kid, but the Duncan comparison isnt really on.


----------



## bullet

Some guys that r not talked about at Moc draft for some reason(some sophomores but why not) and I'd like to bring up anyway:

Francisco Garcia 
Great shooter and allaround good player.has to add some pounds to get attension.

Delonte West 
great scorer,good defender,again bulk up issues.Very easy not to be seen behind Jameer,and shoots higher % then Jameer.

J.J.Redick 
Awsome shooter.this season from the line 59-60 (0.983%) and 0.436 3p%

Denham Brown 
another sophomore with great size and a very nice shot.

Justi Gray and Chris Paul 
the 2 undersized (for nba) gaurds from Wake Forrest look like they have nice ofensive skills.

Carl Krauser 
Good defensive player ,can pass,score and rebound.strong(used to be a boxer)

Jarret Jack 
Good D,nice ofense

Rashad MacCants 
Obvious.great body.good skills allaround.But a sophomore at NC...who knows

Keith Langford 
Good decision making,high FG%.started playing late and getting better.nice size.

Tony Allen 
Good strong body,Good shooter.

Blake Stepp
good shooter and Passer


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>bullet</b>!
> Some guys that r not talked about at Moc draft for some reason(some sophomores but why not) and I'd like to bring up anyway:
> 
> Francisco Garcia
> Great shooter and allaround good player.has to add some pounds to get attension.
> 
> Delonte West
> great scorer,good defender,again bulk up issues.Very easy not to be seen behind Jameer,and shoots higher % then Jameer.
> 
> J.J.Redick
> Awsome shooter.this season from the line 59-60 (0.983%) and 0.436 3p%
> 
> Denham Brown
> another sophomore with great size and a very nice shot.
> 
> Justi Gray and Chris Paul
> the 2 undersized (for nba) gaurds from Wake Forrest look like they have nice ofensive skills.
> 
> Carl Krauser
> Good defensive player ,can pass,score and rebound.strong(used to be a boxer)
> 
> Jarret Jack
> Good D,nice ofense
> 
> Rashad MacCants
> Obvious.great body.good skills allaround.But a sophomore at NC...who knows
> 
> Keith Langford
> Good decision making,high FG%.started playing late and getting better.nice size.
> 
> Tony Allen
> Good strong body,Good shooter.
> 
> Blake stepp
> good shooter and Passer.


I have talked about Redick and McCants, the others I know very little about. But I am very interested!


----------



## bullet

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> I have talked about Redick and McCants, the others I know very little about. But I am very interested!


Go through their scouting reports.Ive seen Garcia against Cincinnaty and he looks good and I've seen Delonte West I don't remember against who but he was Dynamite and scored 25+.
Redick and McCants we've obviously both seen and liked,as well as well as Denham Brown in UCons games.he's been shooting the 3 at 0.518% and throws up 1.5 a game.also his shot selection is good and shoots from the field 0.514% and thats not bad for a sophomore.he's also upgraded his FT%.U could say its all the attention the stars around him get but he's taking the chances very well.I also love his size.


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>bullet</b>!
> 
> 
> Go through their scouting reports.Ive seen Garcia against Cincinnaty and he looks good and I've seen Delonte West I don't remember against who but he was Dynamite and scored 25+.
> Redick and McCants we've obviously both seen and liked,as well as well as Denham Brown in UCons games.he's been shooting the 3 at 0.518% and throws up 1.5 a game.also his shot selection is good and shoots from the field 0.514% and thats not bad for a sophomore.he's also upgraded his FT%.U could say its all the attention the stars around him get but he's taking the chances very well.I also love his size.


very good bits of info. can any of these people fall to round 2? 

hey bullet, 3900 hits and counting. Keep up the good work


----------



## curry_52

Rlucas: Whats your take on this players?
Walter Herrmann
Felipe Reyes
Kaspars Kambala
Donatas Slanina


----------



## bullet

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> Rlucas: Whats your take on this players?
> Walter Herrmann
> Felipe Reyes
> Kaspars Kambala
> Donatas Slanina


Kambala looks good.Reyes i've seen once and did not make a big impression.


----------



## bullet

Maybe I missed it but we gotta discuss this #14

Shaun Livingston andone more link 
6-7 flashy PG and this kid looks good.never seen him though,who has???


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> Rlucas: Whats your take on this players?
> Walter Herrmann
> Felipe Reyes
> Kaspars Kambala
> Donatas Slanina


Kambala looks good. Hermann is kind of a legend but he never seems to get enough buzz in NBA circles. The other 2 I have heard of, but cant say I know too much about


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>bullet</b>!
> Maybe I missed it but we gotta discuss this #14
> 
> Shaun Livingston andone more link
> 6-7 flashy PG and this kid looks good.never seen him though,who has???


He lives in peoria so someone I am sure as seen him. Probably not a good fit for us, and is committed to Duke, but my guess is that he comes out and is drafted 7-12. I posted an Insider synopsis on him. I can ask for some tape and give you an impression in a couple of days


----------



## bullet

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> He lives in peoria so someone I am sure as seen him. Probably not a good fit for us, and is committed to Duke, but my guess is that he comes out and is drafted 7-12. I posted an Insider synopsis on him. I can ask for some tape and give you an impression in a couple of days


Well,I don't know,he might fit.the fact that he plays PG doesn't mean much at this stage of his carrer.


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>bullet</b>!
> 
> 
> Well,I don't know,he might fit.the fact that he plays PG doesn't mean much at this stage of his carrer.


I think we ought to be done with hometown kids for awhile. He is a nice prospect but with Kirk and who knows at the 2, I just dont see him as a real need. But he should be discussed cause he and a slew of HSers are climbing the charts


----------



## bullet

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> I think we ought to be done with hometown kids for awhile. He is a nice prospect but with Kirk and who knows at the 2, I just dont see him as a real need. But he should be discussed cause he and a slew of HSers are climbing the charts


what I meant is we don't know much about the kid and he might be a PG in the way TMac is a PG.

Oh,congrats on 4000


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>bullet</b>!
> 
> 
> what I meant is we don't know much about the kid and he might be a PG in the way TMac is a PG.
> 
> Oh,congrats on 4000


thanks mate. He could be a very good player. I called to get some film so itll take a day or 2 for me to download it

here is some thoughts from the Duke and Uconn games from another thread

http://www.basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=919268#post919268


----------



## curry_52

Vujanic Update:
27 Minutes
9 Pts
1-4 2PT FG
1-2 3PT FG
4-4 FT
2 Rebs (1 Off)
2 Assists
2 TOs
0 Stl


:|


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> Vujanic Update:
> 27 Minutes
> 9 Pts
> 1-4 2PT FG
> 1-2 3PT FG
> 4-4 FT
> 2 Rebs (1 Off)
> 2 Assists
> 2 TOs
> 0 Stl
> 
> 
> :|


who did they play today?


----------



## curry_52

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> who did they play today?


They defeated Teramo 93-77


----------



## jacraw1

Livingston was in town to play my high school (Quincy, IL) last weekend. I didnt get to go to the game but i saw a lot of it on the replay later that night. He looked like he could do pretty much whatever he wanted out there, but the game ended up being close i think the final was 67-62 peoria. Saying this, i dont think he should even think about going pro. He needs to put on a lot of weight, and his defense isnt good at all, except for the fact he is 6 foot 7. I liked his game, but he definitly needs to go play with Deng at Duke.
It would be scary if they both stuck around.


----------



## RoRo

syracuse vs pitt

warrick - his offense is primarily in the post. he's getting some chances to go one on one and he's quick with his moves - spining either baseline or to the paint. looks like he'll be able to use his athleticism at the nba level too. slippery around the hoop. his second jump is just as explosive as his first. not showing a lot of handle or perimeter offense though.

pitt's bigs are owning the paint. warrick isn't a banger. on pitt Taft looks awesome, looks and plays alot like Chris Wilcox when he was in Maryland. Great size 6'10" 230, soft hands, good mid-short range shot and even dropping a couple sweet dimes. Krauser is doing well on d, good at pushing the tempo. some street in his handles too.


----------



## bullet

> Originally posted by <b>RoRo</b>!
> syracuse vs pitt
> 
> warrick - his offense is primarily in the post. he's getting some chances to go one on one and he's quick with his moves - spining either baseline or to the paint. looks like he'll be able to use his athleticism at the nba level too. slippery around the hoop. his second jump is just as explosive as his first. not showing a lot of handle or perimeter offense though.
> 
> pitt's bigs are owning the paint. warrick isn't a banger. on pitt Taft looks awesome, looks and plays alot like Chris Wilcox when he was in Maryland. Great size 6'10" 230, soft hands, good mid-short range shot and even dropping a couple sweet dimes. Krauser is doing well on d, good at pushing the tempo. some street in his handles too.


Bottom Q,would u take Warrik for Bulls if we don't get top 3.
I like the guy,he can be a nice player in the league and I'm not sure I'd pick him at 5-10,I'd trade down and take a dif SF


----------



## rlucas4257

Dwight Howard vs Randolph Morris (7foot center who is really on the rise) this coming Friday at 8pm on ESPN2. Ill be on the road. Someone please watch it and let me know what you guys see


----------



## curry_52

Oberto Update (FA):
12 Points
7-12 2PT FG
6 Rebounds (2 Off)
1 Steal
2 TOs
1 Block


----------



## curry_52

LOL, Pavel was demoted from the starting lineup and his team lost to one of the worst teams in the Italian League (Air Avellino).
Pavel's line:
6 Minutes
0 Points
0-0 FG
0-0 FT
0 Rebs
1 Steal
1 TO
0 Assist

He has a long way to go!!

:sour:


----------



## curry_52

I tell you, theres no better SG outside the NBA than Macijauskas. In spite the fact that Tau lost again (Geez, Nocioni still injured, they need him B A D), he had another monster game:
Macijauskas line:
40 Minutes
26 Points
6-9 2PT FG
3-9 3PT FG
5-8 FT
1 Rebound
1 Assist
2 Steals
2 TOs
1 Block


Scola, another nice guy from TAU -His rights belong to San Antonio- scored 19 Points and pulled down 15 Rebounds (9 Offensive Rebs!!)


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> I tell you, theres no better SG outside the NBA than Macijauskas. In spite the fact that Tau lost again (Geez, Nocioni still injured, they need him B A D), he had another monster game:
> Macijauskas line:
> 40 Minutes
> 26 Points
> 6-9 2PT FG
> 3-9 3PT FG
> 5-8 FT
> 1 Rebound
> 1 Assist
> 2 Steals
> 2 TOs
> 1 Block
> 
> 
> Scola, another nice guy from TAU -His rights belong to San Antonio- scored 19 Points and pulled down 15 Rebounds (9 Offensive Rebs!!)


Ill be in Italy next weekend to see Pavel

I saw the Tau game

Scola is not going to be a star or anything but he is going to be another solid player on the NBA level. San Antonio will get him into the NBA next year most likely where I can easily see him be a very solid backup for Duncan and Rasho

Arvydas Macijaukas. Is there a better shooter in the world not named Peja? Seriously? He is like Redick from Duke but on a bigger level. I hate tossing the Drazen Petrovic comparison out there but with this kid, its hard not to. 6-5 and can just shoot the lights out. id say he is a better player then GG. He isnt slow or unathletic. I just think he blossomed this year. Otherwise I cant figure out how the NBA missed this kid. Pax ought to offer him a contract. he is a Veshon Lenard type and his off the ball game would help. While he isnt really a draft kid, he is somebody we should focus on. Signing him is like having another first rounder. But at the end of the day, he will end up going to some other Eurofriendly team like Sac, Dallas, Phoenix, San Antonio or Detroit, leaving the Bulls out in the cold again.


----------



## curry_52

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> Ill be in Italy next weekend to see Pavel
> 
> I saw the Tau game
> 
> Scola is not going to be a star or anything but he is going to be another solid player on the NBA level. San Antonio will get him into the NBA next year most likely where I can easily see him be a very solid backup for Duncan and Rasho
> 
> Arvydas Macijaukas. Is there a better shooter in the world not named Peja? Seriously? He is like Redick from Duke but on a bigger level. I hate tossing the Drazen Petrovic comparison out there but with this kid, its hard not to. 6-5 and can just shoot the lights out. id say he is a better player then GG. He isnt slow or unathletic. I just think he blossomed this year. Otherwise I cant figure out how the NBA missed this kid. Pax ought to offer him a contract. he is a Veshon Lenard type and his off the ball game would help. While he isnt really a draft kid, he is somebody we should focus on. Signing him is like having another first rounder. But at the end of the day, he will end up going to some other Eurofriendly team like Sac, Dallas, Phoenix, San Antonio or Detroit, leaving the Bulls out in the cold again.


Agreed on Scola. He isnt starter material but he could be a nice option from the bench for San Antonio. If he gets to very good/great shape he can be a factor from the bench in this league. Again, Oberto is a FA and he is better than Scola, so I think he should be given a chance here as a bench player. 

And Macijauskas is starter material, sure. My bet is he ends with Dallas. I get the feeling Paxson is too dumb, too shortsighted to sign this players. He probably doesnt know that we are in 2004 and he can catch any plane and scout this players closely. Does he know there is something called "Europe"?

:upset:


----------



## bullet

How about this Telfair guy,I've never seen him out of the web.and we pick a PG every year anyway.


----------



## curry_52

BTW, Do you know any way to get to Pax via E-Mail?


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> BTW, Do you know any way to get to Pax via E-Mail?


[email protected]? 

Interestingly, Mark Cuban posts his email address at every Mavs game. Doubly interestingly, no one else has the guts to do that


----------



## curry_52

I know Kiki is on the same boat with Cuban, but I dont know about Pax.

BTW, while you are in Italy scouting Pavel try get an eye on Alexander Vujacic and tell me what you think about his game, right? 
And Kresimir Loncar as well!


----------



## bullet

Curry 52 - what do u think of Nicola Voychic(sp) and Yaskivicious from Maccabi Tel Aviv

Nicola is a 7 foot C with ALL the moves on ofense-great postup skills,can put the ball on the floor and can even hit the 3.problems-i think he's 25/26 allready,under a big contract and probably will have some defensive problems in NBA.he's ranked 3rd in the euroleague in ef' right now.

Yaskivicious,or Sharas(nickname)is an AWSOME ofensive player.there is no better Passer then him in europe,most of his passes r accurate no looks-alla jason kid.seriously,he doesn't fall back behind anyone in the nba right now in passing(even not Kid),he breaks his man easily and always finds the right man.as flashy as he is,he does not turn the ball over much.he also shoots as well as anyone,even macikauskas(sp???),last game 7-10 from 3 pnt and its not a one time.his contract is for one season(i think).his big problem would be his D in nba,since sometimes he got problems in europe.but with his ofensive arsenal,he's worth it.he was also chosen MVP of the euro Championship taking his team(with macikauskas too)all the way.the Spurs wanted to sign him and judjing on the 'so much better then us' in management work it means something.

your opinion on these guys?


----------



## curry_52

> Originally posted by <b>bullet</b>!
> Curry 52 - what do u think of Nicola Voychic(sp) and Yaskivicious from Maccabi Tel Aviv
> 
> Nicola is a 7 foot C with ALL the moves on ofense-great postup skills,can put the ball on the floor and can even hit the 3.problems-i think he's 25/26 allready,under a big contract and probably will have some defensive problems in NBA.he's ranked 3rd in the euroleague in ef' right now.
> 
> Yaskivicious,or Sharas(nickname)is an AWSOME ofensive player.there is no better Passer then him in europe,most of his passes r accurate no looks-alla jason kid.seriously,he doesn't fall back behind anyone in the nba right now in passing(even not Kid),he breaks his man easily and always finds the right man.as flashy as he is,he does not turn the ball over much.he also shoots as well as anyone,even macikauskas(sp???),last game 7-10 from 3 pnt and its not a one time.his contract is for one season(i think).his big problem would be his D in nba,since sometimes he got problems in europe.but with his ofensive arsenal,he's worth it.he was also chosen MVP of the euro Championship taking his team(with macikauskas too)all the way.the Spurs wanted to sign him and judjing on the 'so much better then us' in management work it means something.
> 
> your opinion on these guys?



P A S S

Maybe our scout (rlucas) can tell us something about this guys!

:yes:


----------



## bullet

Well,I can tell u what ever u want since i see them play twice a week.

Both can play in NBA,Both great ofensive players.Nicola is better on ofense then Rasho,Medvedenko and other euro Centers.he'll have a D problem.

Sharas - I think the best ofensive player in europe right now,and the last euro championship shows it clearly.again,Defensive liability,like many euro players,at least at the beginning.


----------



## truebluefan

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> [email protected]?
> 
> Interestingly, Mark Cuban posts his email address at every Mavs game. Doubly interestingly, no one else has the guts to do that


If he does have an e-mail I would leave out the chi. part and try bulls.com...Just a guess.


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> P A S S
> 
> Maybe our scout (rlucas) can tell us something about this guys!
> 
> :yes:


Frankly, I have seen these guys play but the games I went to they didnt stand out. Right now Id have to say Macijauskas is the best offensive player in Europe at this second. Delfino isnt far behind. I think Detroit got a steal in this kid. Its always hard to discount Mr Barca either.

Lots of games to see this week. But my time is based on Pavel this weekend, which I am excited about. Id like to get to see him up close and get a real feel for him. I have a hedge fund meeting in Milan on Wednesday and after some skiing in St Moritz Thursday and Friday Ill check him out. Ill be online to hear any more thoughts

Garcia, the Louisville kid. I think his name is garcia. I watched him play last night. Not overly a fan. I just dont like Pitino coached kids. the system doesnt translate to the NBA. no one plays that helter skelter style. Id stay away. JMO


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## curry_52

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> Frankly, I have seen these guys play but the games I went to they didnt stand out. Right now Id have to say Macijauskas is the best offensive player in Europe at this second. Delfino isnt far behind. I think Detroit got a steal in this kid. Its always hard to discount Mr Barca either.
> 
> Lots of games to see this week. But my time is based on Pavel this weekend, which I am excited about. Id like to get to see him up close and get a real feel for him. I have a hedge fund meeting in Milan on Wednesday and after some skiing in St Moritz Thursday and Friday Ill check him out. Ill be online to hear any more thoughts
> 
> Garcia, the Louisville kid. I think his name is garcia. I watched him play last night. Not overly a fan. I just dont like Pitino coached kids. the system doesnt translate to the NBA. no one plays that helter skelter style. Id stay away. JMO


Are you going to be able to draw conclusions after watching Pavel for 5 minutes?
:sigh:


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## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> 
> 
> Are you going to be able to draw conclusions after watching Pavel for 5 minutes?
> :sigh:


Probably not. But I will see some of his practice as well


----------



## Johnny Mac

The good thing about Pavel, is he'll probably end up being a solid starting center in this league. The bad thing about him is, he probably wont be playing for the team who drafted him by the time it happens. Hes only, what, 17? I see no reason why a guy like him cant be molded into a solid guy in the NBA with 8 years of NBA training. With his size, it should be expected. 

The Bulls should NOT take him though, shouldnt even be an option. Too young, wrong position.


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## cheezdoodle

Pavel is 19 right now. I'll be interested to hear your take on him Rlucas. Our guy in Europe is getting tapes on him all the time and unfortunately there isn't too much to see right now. I saw Rafael Araujo play today from BYU and he looked pretty damn good. The guy is a total beast, really the only legit Center coming out of the NCAA in this draft. He looks like a mid first rounder to me right now. Serious defense issues though.


----------



## RoRo

> Originally posted by <b>bullet</b>!
> Bottom Q,would u take Warrik for Bulls if we don't get top 3.
> I like the guy,he can be a nice player in the league and I'm not sure I'd pick him at 5-10,I'd trade down and take a dif SF


i think you're right on, in his current role i didn't see alot of his perimeter game (and the level to which it exists), which should be important if chandler and curry are still the cornerstones.


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## bullet

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> Frankly, I have seen these guys play but the games I went to they didnt stand out. Right now Id have to say Macijauskas is the best offensive player in Europe at this second. Delfino isnt far behind. I think Detroit got a steal in this kid. Its always hard to discount Mr Barca either.


My opinion is Macijauskas is the best SCORER in euro bb.
but still,Sharas is the best overall offensive player.
I've been into euro BB for 20 years,and I've never seen a european player pass like Sharas.his passing abilities r in the likes of Kid and Stockton(#1).flashy passes,simple ones,they all fall for him.allthough Macijauskas scored more points then Sharas in the last Euro championship,Sharas was selected to be the MVP,with no competition.he was passing so many good ones,every teamate in his lithuanian team got at least 4 more points cause of him,especially the big guys.all u got to do is watch him and keep your arms up and ready to get his shotguns.
in addition to that he can shoot as good as Macijauskas ,not Kidding,he just is a pass 1st player.His accuracy from 3p is somewhere close to Peja,and i'm still not kidding.
his problem in nba would be his defense,he can't stay on the likes of Stephan,A.I(who can),Bibby or even JC.
I guess u saw him in games with litle impact cause he's playing in the best team in the euroleague(together with C.S.K.A at the top),and there r many good players around him.
But in his national team,he was the dominent player,not Macijauskas,not Shtrombergas,not Hukic,he was the man,and he got the credit for that.
In addition,the Spurs wanted him,and they r doing a better Job then our managment in euroscouting,no doubt,it means something.
not taking away anything from Macijauskas,whom i'd be glad if we signed him,and i think he fits us better since he plays SG while Sharas plays at point,where we r set with Kirk.


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## rlucas4257

just a couple of things

Anderson Varajao is moving up again. he has strung some nice games together in the euro league and scouts really like him personally and his game. He might not be back to the high lottery yet, but 10-14 sounds about right. I hate to say it, but this kid is a more finished product then Chandler. 

Dejan Bodriga, i am hearing, would like to play in the NBA next year. Barca has told him they wont stop him from leaving and wont charge a buyout. So he is free. Now it would take something to get him from Sacramento who owns his rights, but Bodriga would be a great pickup. But I think his value is fairly high. For some team, he might be enough to get them over the hump (Lakers, Minnesota). Or a solid stop gap 3 for 4 or 5 years for a team like Chicago. Just a thought


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## curry_52

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> just a couple of things
> 
> Anderson Varajao is moving up again. he has strung some nice games together in the euro league and scouts really like him personally and his game. He might not be back to the high lottery yet, but 10-14 sounds about right. I hate to say it, but this kid is a more finished product then Chandler.


:laugh:


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## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> 
> 
> :laugh:


Offensively, he is far better actually


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## curry_52

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> Offensively, he is far better actually


Thats like saying Roger Mason Jr is far better than Brunson, you know what I mean? Varejao isnt a scorer, he is far from being that, and Chandler isnt a scorer as well. Yes, Varejao has improved and can knock down the 15 footer but he isnt an offensive threat at all, not a guy that I would worry to give him attention on the offensive end (You must keep him off the boards). Chandler hasnt an offensive arsenal, but he is good for 15 points with putbacks, easy dunks/layups and short jumpers. 
And Chandler is better on the defensive end and I would rather have Chandler covering my back than Varejao. He is far more intimidating and alters far more shots. 
I would rather have CHandler than Varejao period

Varejao is known for his hair style more than his game, nuff said.


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## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> 
> 
> Thats like saying Roger Mason Jr is far better than Brunson, you know what I mean? Varejao isnt a scorer, he is far from being that, and Chandler isnt a scorer as well. Yes, Varejao has improved and can knock down the 15 footer but he isnt an offensive threat at all, not a guy that I would worry to give him attention on the offensive end (You must keep him off the boards). Chandler hasnt an offensive arsenal, but he is good for 15 points with putbacks, easy dunks/layups and short jumpers.
> And Chandler is better on the defensive end and I would rather have Chandler covering my back than Varejao. He is far more intimidating and alters far more shots.
> I would rather have CHandler than Varejao period
> 
> Varejao is known for his hair style more than his game, nuff said.


actually recently he has put a handful of 15-18 pt games and knocks down the occasional 3. He also knocked down some 3s this summer vs team usa. barca runs very little for him but now that his range has increased barca is running pick and spot ups for him. His game is getting much better. I am not saying he is better then Chandler, but his offense is far ahead of Tysons. And he is nearly as athletic as Tyson and as tall. The point is, this kid is going from 10-15 in this draft. Tyson is very replacable is basically what I am trying to say. Curry however is not.


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## curry_52

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> actually recently he has put a handful of 15-18 pt games and knocks down the occasional 3. He also knocked down some 3s this summer vs team usa. barca runs very little for him but now that his range has increased barca is running pick and spot ups for him. His game is getting much better. I am not saying he is better then Chandler, but his offense is far ahead of Tysons. And he is nearly as athletic as Tyson and as tall. The point is, this kid is going from 10-15 in this draft. Tyson is very replacable is basically what I am trying to say. Curry however is not.


He isnt as tall and as athletic like Tyson. No! And Tyson also knocked down 3s while playing for Dominguez HS so I dont know where he left that jumper. 
Would you consider trading Varejao for Chandler (If you are Paxson)? 
My answer to that question: :laugh:


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## curry_52

Scoring this season (And he has lot of room for improvement):
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/tyson_chandler/game_by_game_stats.html


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## rlucas4257

http://www.euroleague.net/plantillas/jugador.jsp?id=CBV


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## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> 
> 
> He isnt as tall and as athletic like Tyson. No! And Tyson also knocked down 3s while playing for Dominguez HS so I dont know where he left that jumper.
> Would you consider trading Varejao for Chandler (If you are Paxson)?
> My answer to that question: :laugh:


No, but my point is that you can get an athletic 4 in the draft in the middle of the first round no problem. In this case Anderson actually is way ahead of Chandler in terms of pure offense. Whereas Chandler has shown very little improvement over the last 3 years outside of garbage points.

Varajao is 6-11 and every bit as long as Chandler is now. 2 inches doesnt mean that much at this level. Varajao could be a stromile level player.


----------



## curry_52

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> http://www.euroleague.net/plantillas/jugador.jsp?id=CBV


What do you think about Macijauskas ability to impact the game othen than scoring? I mean, everyone has an off night (shooting the ball) here and there.


----------



## curry_52

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> No, but my point is that you can get an athletic 4 in the draft in the middle of the first round no problem. In this case Anderson actually is way ahead of Chandler in terms of pure offense. Whereas Chandler has shown very little improvement over the last 3 years outside of garbage points.
> 
> Varajao is 6-11 and every bit as long as Chandler is now. 2 inches doesnt mean that much at this level. Varajao could be a stromile level player.


You cant put Stromile and Varejao in the same sentence. Not that once is much better than the other, but they are different players. Stro is so * nasty!

But dont forget the Bulls position. We need a Chandler type player, we have Curry to score 25 down there. And Chandler has the ability to knock down the 15 footer, I dont know whats wrong with him. If you add Macijauskas to the Bulls squad, certainly Curry will have more space to work and less pressure on the "O" side.


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## curry_52

http://www.euroleague.net/plantillas/jugador.jsp?id=BBW

:|


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## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> 
> 
> What do you think about Macijauskas ability to impact the game othen than scoring? I mean, everyone has an off night (shooting the ball) here and there.


Whether Arvydas is shooting well or not, he does one thing better then anyone i have seen since Drazen petrovic and that is move off the ball. This guy is constantly in attack mold. And like Dell Curry, if he makes one shot, he is likely to rattle 6-8 in a row so he requires constant attention even when off. But like Petrovic, he is going to move and you have to guard him. the effort alone that it takes to guard him on one end helps you on the other end of the floor since it takes energy to stay with him. He is kind of like Redick from Duke in that way. Not an outstanding defensive player, but rarely gets burned because he makes you work so hard on playing D against him. Plus this guy does hit the open guy on screen roll and is good enough at handling the ball that he can move over to the 1 if say Crawford or Hinrich were to get hot. Macijauskas should be a target. that 40 pt game he had in the euroleague was a real fun game to watch


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## curry_52

Did you watch this game:
http://www.euroleague.net/stats/statsPartido.jsp?temporada=E03&jornada=2&partido=22


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## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> http://www.euroleague.net/plantillas/jugador.jsp?id=BBW
> 
> :|


Take out the clunker against Roma to start the euro league and he is up around 11 a night in limited minutes on a great %. he was particularly impressive offensively against Pau, I was at that game. Defensively, he was very good against Partizan


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## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> Did you watch this game:
> http://www.euroleague.net/stats/statsPartido.jsp?temporada=E03&jornada=2&partido=22


the second half. Really a fun game to watch. Nocioni and Macijaukas were really on top of their game on this night.


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## curry_52

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> Take out the clunker against Roma to start the euro league and he is up around 11 a night in limited minutes on a great %. he was particularly impressive offensively against Pau, I was at that game. Defensively, he was very good against Partizan


His ACB Stats:
18 Games
19.1 Minutes per
52 2PT FG%
33 3PT FG%
7.4 PPG
4.6 RPG (1.8 Off per game)
1 APG
0.6 BPG


Season Highs:
16 Points
8 Rebounds


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## curry_52

Do you know about any NBA team going after Macijauskas and Nocioni?


BTW: Post #400 (Thread)

:greatjob:


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## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> Do you know about any NBA team going after Macijauskas and Nocioni?


Nocioni, San Antonio

Macijauskas-Boston with Phoenix and Dallas very interested and Houston scouting him.


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## cheezdoodle

Hey guys, Drejer will be on TV tonight. 8:30 on ESPN, [email protected] He'll have some TV games later on this month, including a game against Kentucky in exactly a week. 

Check him out if you get the chance. I'd like to hear your thoughts about him.


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## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>cheezdoodle</b>!
> Hey guys, Drejer will be on TV tonight. 8:30 on ESPN, [email protected] He'll have some TV games later on this month, including a game against Kentucky in exactly a week.
> 
> Check him out if you get the chance. I'd like to hear your thoughts about him.


he didnt hava a huge stat game this past weekend but I was particularly impressed. If we cant get Okafor or Deng, I would say Drejer would move up my wish list in a trade down to go with Igoudala


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## cheezdoodle

excuse me, I meant ESPN2. The game against Kentucky will be on ESPN at 9:00 PM next Tuesday.


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## curry_52

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> Nocioni, San Antonio
> 
> Macijauskas-Boston with Phoenix and Dallas very interested and Houston scouting him.


Damn!
I think Nocioni is a great fit for San Antonio.
And what about Welsch? Macijauskas and Welsch in Boston? I know Macijuaskas isnt a proven commodity, but having them going hard after Maci is kinda weird. They also have Ricky Davis.


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## BEEZ

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> he didnt hava a huge stat game this past weekend but I was particularly impressed. If we cant get Okafor or Deng, I would say Drejer would move up my wish list in a trade down to go with Igoudala


I meant to mention this to you rlucas. You have definitley made me a believer in Drejer. I watched him this weekend as well and I definitely came away impressed with the other things that he did as far as passing to the cutter, his ability to still look for his man while being defended and holding on to the ball. The small things are what I look for and he really showed me something


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## cheezdoodle

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> he didnt hava a huge stat game this past weekend but I was particularly impressed. If we cant get Okafor or Deng, I would say Drejer would move up my wish list in a trade down to go with Igoudala


His biggest problem is that he is so unselfish that he hardly ever ends up having big statistical games. Everytime I see him I'm almost sure that he ended up coming close to getting a triple double but for some reason that doesn't show up on the boxscores. He can score when he wants to, he just prefers to set up others most of the time. There are three players on Florida's roster that regularly take 10-15 shots per game (Roberson, Lee and Walsh) and Drejer has no problem at all setting them up instead of making his own line look good. I don't know how much of a problem that will be in the NBA though, especially on the Bulls.


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>BEEZ</b>!
> 
> 
> I meant to mention this to you rlucas. You have definitley made me a believer in Drejer. I watched him this weekend as well and I definitely came away impressed with the other things that he did as far as passing to the cutter, his ability to still look for his man while being defended and holding on to the ball. The small things are what I look for and he really showed me something


Thanks beez. But i cant take credit for Drejer. You have to give credit to Cheezedoodle. I think you got the 2 of us mixed up. But Ill take any credit I can!


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> 
> 
> Damn!
> I think Nocioni is a great fit for San Antonio.
> And what about Welsch? Macijauskas and Welsch in Boston? I know Macijuaskas isnt a proven commodity, but having them going hard after Maci is kinda weird. They also have Ricky Davis.


I havent seen it with my own eyes, but the word is Ainge has been to a ton of Tau games this year. And he has spoken publicly about Arvydas. Who knows how he fits in, but 2 things come to mind.

Bostons GM actually goes to Europe

Boston seems to realize that you cant enough good shooters

boston isnt someone to emulate but it appears to me that they are getting it after their botched Walker deal


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## curry_52

Thread Update:
407 Posts
4484 Views

Later all!!

:rbanana:


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## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> Thread Update:
> 407 Posts
> 4484 Views
> 
> Later all!!
> 
> :rbanana:


\\

this thing will be 200 pages, 100k hit and probably 15k posts by draft day. Just a guess.


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## curry_52

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> I havent seen it with my own eyes, but the word is Ainge has been to a ton of Tau games this year. And he has spoken publicly about Arvydas. Who knows how he fits in, but 2 things come to mind.
> 
> Bostons GM actually goes to Europe
> 
> Boston seems to realize that you cant enough good shooters
> 
> boston isnt someone to emulate but it appears to me that they are getting it after their botched Walker deal



Philadelphia 76ERS sono parecchio INTERESSATI all'ala argentina ANDRES NOCIONI. La squadra di Iverson ha fatto di tutto per assicurarsi l'atletico giocatore ma senza riuscirci a causa di un oneroso buyout imposto dal Tau Vitoria. Si pensa che la firma del giocatore coi Sixers sia solo rimandata all'anno prossimo.

http://www.usabasket.it/Link/News/agosto03/newsagosto/31-08-2003.htm

Oops: Sixers going after Nocioni (This past offseason). He could get signed after this season, but I wonder if they still have interest since Im sure Larry Brown wanted him on the Philly squad? I remember Larry Brown praising Nocioni during the Puerto Rico tournament.


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## cheezdoodle

Nocioni's buyout is rumoured to be anywhere from at least 3 million to maybe even over 10 million! :upset: 
It's going to be tough to get him over if it's anything more then 3 million. 

You heard anything about this Rlucas? 

I watched a couple of the Eurobasket games this summer and a bunch of Maccabi Tel Aviv games in the Euroleague this year and I personally think that Jasikevicius is a better NBA prospect then Macijuaskas. It's going to be very tough for him to play SG at 6-3 with limited athleticism. He'll get killed on defense and it's not going to be that easy to get his shot off in the NBA with guys like Doug Christie and Bruce Bowen guarding him. He does have a killer stroke and release though, but his handle is very average and it will be hard for him to fool the opposing teams that he is going to do anything but shoot threes. With that said, I would give him a shot at the NBA, but I wouldn't expect him to be anything more then a spark plug player off the bench. 

And Nikola Vujcic from Maccabi could play in the NBA right now if he wanted. He's a great player with excellent size (almost 7 feet). Very skilled, still young. He has a place in the league. The only question is how much he wants it.


----------



## bullet

> Originally posted by <b>cheezdoodle</b>!
> Nocioni's buyout is rumoured to be anywhere from at least 3 million to maybe even over 10 million! :upset:
> It's going to be tough to get him over if it's anything more then 3 million.
> 
> You heard anything about this Rlucas?
> 
> I watched a couple of the Eurobasket games this summer and a bunch of Maccabi Tel Aviv games in the Euroleague this year and I personally think that Jasikevicius is a better NBA prospect then Macijuaskas. It's going to be very tough for him to play SG at 6-3 with limited athleticism. He'll get killed on defense and it's not going to be that easy to get his shot off in the NBA with guys like Doug Christie and Bruce Bowen guarding him. He does have a killer stroke and release though, but his handle is very average and it will be hard for him to fool the opposing teams that he is going to do anything but shoot threes. With that said, I would give him a shot at the NBA, but I wouldn't expect him to be anything more then a spark plug player off the bench.
> 
> And Nikola Vujcic from Maccabi could play in the NBA right now if he wanted. He's a great player with excellent size (almost 7 feet). Very skilled, still young. He has a place in the league. The only question is how much he wants it.


Amen cheezdoodle!

Sharas and Nicola - both great players,both allready making big money(well,in euro bb standard),both have experience,but both will have D problems no doubt,like so many euro players.

Nicola has got EVERY move on the book on offense,and those crazy passes by sharas get a WOW from me every now and then.


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>cheezdoodle</b>!
> Nocioni's buyout is rumoured to be anywhere from at least 3 million to maybe even over 10 million! :upset:
> It's going to be tough to get him over if it's anything more then 3 million.
> 
> You heard anything about this Rlucas?
> 
> I watched a couple of the Eurobasket games this summer and a bunch of Maccabi Tel Aviv games in the Euroleague this year and I personally think that Jasikevicius is a better NBA prospect then Macijuaskas. It's going to be very tough for him to play SG at 6-3 with limited athleticism. He'll get killed on defense and it's not going to be that easy to get his shot off in the NBA with guys like Doug Christie and Bruce Bowen guarding him. He does have a killer stroke and release though, but his handle is very average and it will be hard for him to fool the opposing teams that he is going to do anything but shoot threes. With that said, I would give him a shot at the NBA, but I wouldn't expect him to be anything more then a spark plug player off the bench.
> 
> And Nikola Vujcic from Maccabi could play in the NBA right now if he wanted. He's a great player with excellent size (almost 7 feet). Very skilled, still young. He has a place in the league. The only question is how much he wants it.


I wish i knew the buyout amount. I know its going to be expensive but what it actually comes out to I just dont know

There are some who would agree with you that Jasikevicius is a better prospect then Macijauskas. I am not one of them. But its still fun to chat. Maci (lets just call him that from now on to save time) is just a tremendous shooter and smart player. I walk away from watching him and thinking how this kid went undrafted.


----------



## curry_52

Varejao and Nocioni stuff (From last year):
"At the Olympic qualifiers, scouts have been impressed with 20-year-old Brazilian PF Anderson Varejao, who backed out of last June's draft after a subpar performance in the Euroleague Final Four in May. Varejao was considered a lottery pick by some because of his agility and size (6-10, 230). But the Euroleague performance probably would have sent him into the 20s and might have even jeopardized his first-round status. Varejao is raw and needs work on his back-to-the-basket game, but he has potential.

NBA scouts also have been _impressed_ by 23-year-old Argentine PF Andres Nocioni. But, one scout says, "_As good as he is, as tough and smart as he is_, *he has a buyout with his European team (Tau Ceramica) that scares a lot of people* ."


----------



## bullet

I don't think Nocioni is worth a huge buyout sum.I mean he's a good player,but there r better prospects even in europe with no buyout issues.


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> Varejao and Nocioni stuff (From last year):
> "At the Olympic qualifiers, scouts have been impressed with 20-year-old Brazilian PF Anderson Varejao, who backed out of last June's draft after a subpar performance in the Euroleague Final Four in May. Varejao was considered a lottery pick by some because of his agility and size (6-10, 230). But the Euroleague performance probably would have sent him into the 20s and might have even jeopardized his first-round status. Varejao is raw and needs work on his back-to-the-basket game, but he has potential.
> 
> NBA scouts also have been _impressed_ by 23-year-old Argentine PF Andres Nocioni. But, one scout says, "_As good as he is, as tough and smart as he is_, *he has a buyout with his European team (Tau Ceramica) that scares a lot of people* ."


Very interesting. That pretty much confirms it. Realistically, I think Andres (which is ironically my name) is worth 3 mil a year in the NBA so it would have to make sense for him since the NBA cant pay the entire buy out amount


----------



## curry_52

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> Very interesting. That pretty much confirms it. Realistically, I think Andres (which is ironically my name) is worth 3 mil a year in the NBA so it would have to make sense for him since the NBA cant pay the entire buy out amount


Yeah, if Im not mistaken the Bulls, for example, can help with 350K and the rest must be paid by Nocioni.

Andy Nocioni? Andrew Nocioni? Andreas Nocioni? Andristoteles Nocioni? 

:frenchy:


----------



## cheezdoodle

People call him Chapú in Spain. Chapú Nocioni :yes: 

From the Marca: (arguably the most respected newspaper in Spain)

-NBA scouts have been watching him closely since the World Championships in Indianapolis (mentioned San Antonio, Houston, Toronto and Detroit)

-Joe Dumars was quoted saying: "Nocioni is an assassin of cold blood. He was the best player in the game (after watching him), we are all kicking ourselves for not drafting him when we had the chance." 

-His contract expires in 2006, Nocioni will be 26 by that point. 

-His buyout sum is over 3 million dollars, or according to them 500 million pesetas (a now obsolete currency, replaced by the Euro) according to a convertor on the net, that now equals 3,793,897.83 USD or in their words: "an enourmous fortune" 

-The Sixers tried very hard to bring him over last summer, but the buyout sum was just too much for them.


----------



## cheezdoodle

and damn it, I'm tired of seeing these ridiculous 2 stars next to my name. Give me some 5 star votes people. This is probably the thing I hate the most about this site. If someone disagrees with you (especially if it's someone like Matt Maurer) you get bombarded with 1 star votes. What the hell is up with that? All the great posters on this thread (except for Rlucas) have bad ratings. How do I turn this crap off?


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>cheezdoodle</b>!
> and damn it, I'm tired of seeing these ridiculous 2 stars next to my name. Give me some 5 star votes people. This is probably the thing I hate the most about this site. If someone disagrees with you (especially if it's someone like Matt Maurer) you get bombarded with 1 star votes. What the hell is up with that? All the great posters on this thread (except for Rlucas) have bad ratings. How do I turn this crap off?


whats even scarier is that I gave you a 5 so some people really arent happy with you. 

But whatever Cheeze. The people who know you know your a very intelligent poster with a lot to offer. And you debate well. I for one appreciate your presence here. And I am sure the others do as well


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## cheezdoodle

:laugh:


----------



## cheezdoodle

The Florida game is coming on in about 5 minutes. Pay attention guys.


----------



## cheezdoodle

Gators are wearing their pimp jersies tonight. Roberson is doing most of the ball handling for now. That will change right about now I bet.


----------



## chifaninca

> Originally posted by <b>cheezdoodle</b>!
> and damn it, I'm tired of seeing these ridiculous 2 stars next to my name. Give me some 5 star votes people. This is probably the thing I hate the most about this site. If someone disagrees with you (especially if it's someone like Matt Maurer) you get bombarded with 1 star votes. What the hell is up with that? All the great posters on this thread (except for Rlucas) have bad ratings. How do I turn this crap off?


Cheez,

don't let the "BCS" ratings get you down. Any of us who read the boards consistently appreciate, if not always agree, with your contributions.

keep them coming and I'll keep reading them....

BTW - I gave you a 5 for lifetime acheivement


----------



## curry_52

> Originally posted by <b>cheezdoodle</b>!
> People call him Chapú in Spain. Chapú Nocioni :yes:


Really?:banghead: 

And its CHAPU not CHAPú


----------



## Benny the Bull

> Originally posted by <b>cheezdoodle</b>!
> The Florida game is coming on in about 5 minutes. Pay attention guys.


I've watched Drejer a few times this year and have been very impressed. He seems to have a great feel for the game, is very unselfish and his defense is very good. Great ball handler for a SF. nbadraft.net compares him to Kukoc, which isn't a bad comparison. He is a better defender than Kukoc though.


----------



## cheezdoodle

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> 
> 
> Really?:banghead:
> 
> And its CHAPU not CHAPú


Was supposed to come out as Chapu', that was kind of weird.


----------



## cheezdoodle

> Originally posted by <b>Benny the Bull</b>!
> 
> 
> I've watched Drejer a few times this year and have been very impressed. He seems to have a great feel for the game, is very unselfish and his defense is very good. Great ball handler for a SF. nbadraft.net compares him to Kukoc, which isn't a bad comparison. He is a better defender than Kukoc though.


That was a pretty typical Drejer game, just an all around do a little bit of everything type of performance. Something is really messed up with their statistics if they only gave him 4 assists though. I counted at least 5 buckets he spoonfed just to Lee. The way he locked down his man (Winston) completely in the last couple of minutes was amazing. Anybody catch it?


----------



## bullet

> Originally posted by <b>cheezdoodle</b>!
> and damn it, I'm tired of seeing these ridiculous 2 stars next to my name. Give me some 5 star votes people. This is probably the thing I hate the most about this site. If someone disagrees with you (especially if it's someone like Matt Maurer) you get bombarded with 1 star votes. What the hell is up with that? All the great posters on this thread (except for Rlucas) have bad ratings. How do I turn this crap off?


U got my 5 for Euro scouting,and it turned u to 3 stars,and i saw u helped me too.

I got ratings from guys Ive never seen on the board since,because only once i disagreed with them.

I only give bad rating if some poster starts insulting me or any other poster in a disrespectful way.

WE both gotta work to reach the 4th star.


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## bullet

rlucas - r u baking us all a cake when we reach 10000 entries


----------



## Wild Wild West

It seems that with Deng possibly staying put, some don't want another high school kid (Smith), and the remaining SF prospects generally projected below the anticipated Bull's pick, trading the pick for a SF that would fit our needs is very possible. 

I would think the following players would be possible for our first round pick, recognizing that other fringe players would probably be required for cap reasons.

1. Battier
2. Butler
3. Dunleavy
4. Miller
5. Wells
6. Patterson
7. Mason
8. Posey

The question may be would you rather have one of those, or one of these prospects?

1. Smith
2. Iguodala
3. Childress
4. Monya
5. Drejer
6. Warrick
7. Chiraev
8. Wright

I think I would prefer Smith if he is as talented as described, and maybe Iguodala or Childress, but for the rest of the prospects I think I would prefer a trade, particularly for Battier, Butler or Dunleavy. What do you think?


----------



## cheezdoodle

Rick Majerus will quit as the coach of Utah when the season is up.



> SALT LAKE CITY -
> Longtime University of Utah head men's basketball coach Rick Majerus, who was hospitalized late last night with health problems, has announced a decision to leave his position with the school at the end of the season.
> 
> Majerus began suffering chest pains at dinner Tuesday that grew progressively more severe and caused pain to radiate down his left arm. He contacted his cardiologist in Santa Barbara, Calif., who urged him to fly there for immediate treatment. Majerus is currently under his cardiologist's care in a Santa Barbara hospital, where he will remain indefinitely. Ute assistant coach Kerry Rupp will coach the team in Majerus' absence.
> 
> According to longtime friend and legal counsel Bob Henderson, "Health permitting, Rick would like to come back and take this team as far as it can go. But in any event, under any circumstances, the Utes' last game this season is Rick's last game as Utah head men's basketball coach."


http://utahutes.ocsn.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/012804aaa.html 

So that means that Andrew Bogut will likely be coming out. That's great news for the Bulls. Another lottery big man might help one of the other SF's fall if Chicago moves up in the standings some.


----------



## bullet

> Originally posted by <b>cheezdoodle</b>!
> Rick Majerus will quit as the coach of Utah when the season is up.
> 
> 
> 
> http://utahutes.ocsn.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/012804aaa.html
> 
> So that means that Andrew Bogut will likely be coming out. That's great news for the Bulls. Another lottery big man might help one of the other SF's fall if Chicago moves up in the standings some.


I'd say more likely in the case we trade down.


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>bullet</b>!
> rlucas - r u baking us all a cake when we reach 10000 entries


I dont think you would want to eat anything that I make


----------



## BEEZ

> Originally posted by <b>cheezdoodle</b>!
> and damn it, I'm tired of seeing these ridiculous 2 stars next to my name. Give me some 5 star votes people. This is probably the thing I hate the most about this site. If someone disagrees with you (especially if it's someone like Matt Maurer) you get bombarded with 1 star votes. What the hell is up with that? All the great posters on this thread (except for Rlucas) have bad ratings. How do I turn this crap off?


lol. I gave you a 5 and now I see a 3-star rating for you:grinning:


----------



## superdave

Wow. NBADraft.net has Shaun Livingston as the #5 pick overall.

I'm speechless.


----------



## bullet

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> I dont think you would want to eat anything that I make


:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:


----------



## curry_52

With Nocioni back, TAU defeated Alba Berlin 94-81 (Euroleague). In spite of him being back, Macijauskas was, again, the Player of the Game.

Nocioni:
16 Minutes
7 Points
2-3 FG (1-1 3PT)
2 Rebounds
1 Assist
1 TO
2 Blocks
4 PFs

Maci:
35 Minutes
28 Points
8-10 FG (2-6 3PT)
6-6 FT
2 Rebounds
3 Assists
1 Steal
4 TOs
3 PF


----------



## curry_52

Fabricio Oberto with another very good performance (Against Idea Slask Wroclaw, won 102-73)

Oberto:
26 Minutes
23 Points
10-12 FG
3-5 FT
9 Rebounds (2 Off)
3 Assists
2 TOs
1 Block


----------



## Benny the Bull

Doesn't mean much but nbadraft.net has taken Luol Deng off the 2004 mock draft. Just reinforces the views of many who think he probably won't come out this season. Still plenty of time for Deng to make his decision. It would be hard to turn down the chance of being a top 3 pick, especially if he plays very well in March.


----------



## bullet

> Originally posted by <b>Benny the Bull</b>!
> Doesn't mean much but nbadraft.net has taken Luol Deng off the 2004 mock draft. Just reinforces the views of many who think he probably won't come out this season. Still plenty of time for Deng to make his decision. It would be hard to turn down the chance of being a top 3 pick, especially if he plays very well in March.


Ya,i also noticed that and didn't like it.

we'll have to settle for Emeka then:grinning:


----------



## rlucas4257

NBAdraft.net, I looked at it this morning. It changed drastically. Livingston and the HSers rose, Huertas is rising and most of the euros have dipped. I believe this is because the buyouts are very high for most of them. Id also like to point out that Ford seems to have an impact on this list as the guys he mentions are either moving into round 1 or moving up. Just a thought Check back on monday for my report on Pavel

I didnt see the macijauskas game but I got an email from someone who did. The question with this guy is why cant he be a star in the NBA? He maybe Drazen Petrovic Redux. I cant say that he couldnt do what he is doing now atleast on some level in the NBA


----------



## Darius Miles Davis

Hakim Warrick at 13 now. That's more like it. He's more like a late lottery/teens pick to me than a top 10 pick.

Ben Gordon is going up and his play has been going down.


----------



## Wild Wild West

RLucas and others have posted good comparisons of some prospects to existing or past players, which is a very good way to judge how much someone could help the Bulls. I recently found myself thinking of such comparisons with other prospects which I will give here, but hope this will stimulate discussion, and if anyone has seen J. Smith or Livingston play, I would like to hear about them, particularly Smith.

1. Iguodala- Many of you probably remember Paul Pressey from the Bucks. I think he is a very good comparison for Iguodala. Very good defender, ballhandler and passer, and rebounder for his size, with modest but some scoring ability. Pressey was a wiry very athletic player whom the term point forward was often used with. Iguodala is sort of a Bowen sized defender, with much better ballhandling and passing, and rebounding numbers that suggest he might be able to play the 3 as well as 2. D. Christie might be a good size skill analogy too. I believe he will be that level of defender, a better rebounder than Bowen or christie, better passer ballhandler than either, and offensive scoring ability better than Bowen that might approach Christie, but that is hard to tell. Iguodala is moving up my list because he is still just a sophomore and showing nice growth in his numbers, which projects to continued improvement in the future.

2. Okafor- As a Uconn grad I obviously watch him and Gordon alot. I see a little bit of K. Martin and B. Wallace in him. A rebounder better than Martin but not as good as Wallace. As a scorer more like Martin than Wallace, but less range, more inside potential and fewer of his points on fast break dunks. Defensively somewhere in between, not as strong as Wallace or as quick as Martin, but overall defensive ability close to those two. Ballhandling ability and passing close to both of those two meaning not too good.

3. Warrick- RLucas has made the Miles comparison which I believe is pretty good (first two years not the last two). I have more mixed reactions to Warrick than any other prospect. They play zone so much I can't get a good read on him defensively. I suspect he will be good there, and consider his ballhandling OK but probably worse than Miles, but his ability to score, at least mid range and inside to be better. Rebounding about the same.

4. Deng- The most impressive thing about his game is that as a freshman he seems to have no serious weaknesses, a fully developed well rounded game that projects very nicely as an NBA 3. His numbers are not outstanding in any one category, but pretty good accross the board, and doing it as a freashman on one of the best teams in the country. I see a defender as Good as Battier right now but with more athletic ability and upside. he also looks like he has an NBA three point shot like Battier. The difference is he is much better in other areas. He appears to have a handle and passing ability that is above average for an NBA player his size, much better than Battier, but not at the level of James, Anthony or say J. Mashburn or A. Walker, but potentially close. I expect his rebounding to be only a little above average for an NBA 3 based on his numbers at Duke so far.

5. Drejer- I believe Rlucas used a Kukoc comparison I don't remember, and as a smaller version of Kukoc I think the ballhandling/passing analogy is right on. He doesn't put up scoring or rebounding numbers that make me believe he will be as good as kukoc in those areas. Kukoc is nothing special as a rebounder but much bigger than Drejer, and Drejer's rebounding numbers are not very impressive as a college player, suggesting he is more a big guard than small forward. Unfortunately the Kukoc analogy may be accurate on defense. I don't see the athletic ability in Drejer to excel there. I believe his ability to penetrate and dish is more a function of his handle and size than quickness. I would be interested in drejer if we trade for or acquire a mid first round pick, but not where we are expected to draft now.

6. Gordon- He is a swing guard in style. I think Terry and Arenas are the best comparisons. He is probably a better ballhandler and passer than most NBA 2's, but not as good as Terry or Arenas, but a pretty good defender and better than those two. His offensive game has alot of variety, take it to the hole, hit the NBA 3, and more unusual a nice midrange pull up jumper. I believe before last year he was pegged as an undersized 2. During a period last year when Taliek Brown was injured, however, he handled the point pretty well and jumped up as a prospect. He can play the point, and the two offensively, defensively some 2's would be a problem at 6-2. He could back up Hinrich and easily play with Crawford. Possibly Hinrich and Gordon could work with maybe Hinrich defending the two.

7. Garcia- He is growing on me the more I see of him, and it seems the best comparison is he appears to be a better version of his teammate last year Reece Gaines, a tall ballhandler/passer, except I think Garcia may be better and more athletic accross the board, and maybe a better shooter. I think he could be a 6-7 point guard, a good enough shooter to be a 2, but is too skinny to consider at the 3. Unlike Gordon, because he is 6-7 he could definately be part of a three guard rotation with Hinrich and Crawford. All could shoot the three, handle the ball, and you would have at least one player big enough to guard the 3's. 

8. Childress- Like Iguodala he rebounds very well for a player his size. He could probably play the 3 but many will project him as a swing player. He looks like more of a slasher, maybe better offensive potential than Warrick or Iguodala, with good athletic ability that projects as a good defender, but not in Iguodala's class. I think his offensive potential seems to ride on his ability to hit the NBA three. He will score using his mobility but his college numbers from three point territory are OK but he may not be good enough from there to be effective at the longer NBA distance. I see all around ability but not exceptional at any one facit, and size that makes him a 2-3 tweener. He might defend as well as say Battier, not as strong but more mobile, and offensively be a little like a smaller Odom.

9. Nelson- No qestion about his position, he is a point guard, and at 5-11 or 6 feet only a point guard. on the other hand he could be a pretty good entertaing backup to Hinrich. It seems like the Player of the Year contest this year is between him and Okafor. I can't find many good comparisons for him. I guess I see a little bit of Cassel, B. Jackson and T. Hudson in him. An agressive point guard, better defensively than his size would suggest, good but not great shooter/passer, and a very surprising rebounder for his size. I worry a little about the fact he has moved up so much his senior year. Last year he weighed going hardship and pulled out because he wasn't positive he would go in the first round. To consider him where we are drafting would seem to be a little bit of a reach, but you could probably pencil him in as a good backup for Hinrich.

Overall I am becomming more and more interested in three swing players, Iguodala, Childress and Garcia. 2/3 for Iguodala/ Childress and 1/2 for Garcia. A starting 3 is the highest priority and I believe Deng if he comes out and we have a chance at him would fill that role. Warrick would be an NBA 3 but because of his lack of perimeter game he is difficult to project. Iguodala and Childress might be tweeners, but perhaps better players overall than Warrick. A lttle undersized at 3 but able to help us at 2 as well. Garcia is too skinny for the 3, but because he can play the point, could get significant minutes backing up Crawford and Hinrich.

I hope some or all of those players continue to come on and justify an early pick, they may seem to be a little of a reach at this point, but I believe they all will have long NBA careers, and we still have the MLE to pursue another SF, and of course Fizer as trade bait.

I am very curious about further feedback on Smith and Livingston, and to a lessor degree Howard. We don't need Howard's position, but obviously if we get one of the top two picks we have to consider him or Okafor, but not if Deng comes out. Howard's team I believe is on ESPN2 tonight by the way.

For Smith he is projected very high and as an NBA 3. From what I hear he is very athletic and a good shooter. But has anyone on this board seen him play? If so could he be the long term solution at the 3 for the Bulls? If so I would take him even if we had to wait a while on his developement.

As for Livingston his height suggests he could play 1 or 2. If his shot is good enough he might have the potential of getting significant minutes like Garcia backing up Hinrich and Crawford in a three guard rotation. Once again i welcome comments from anyone who has seen him play. Could he play 1 and 2? If so he becomes much more valuable to us.

Any other players comparisons or comments, agreements or disagreements you would like to add?


----------



## bullet

> Originally posted by <b>Wild Wild West</b>!
> RLucas and others have posted good comparisons of some prospects to existing or past players, which is a very good way to judge how much someone could help the Bulls. I recently found myself thinking of such comparisons with other prospects which I will give here, but hope this will stimulate discussion, and if anyone has seen J. Smith or Livingston play, I would like to hear about them, particularly Smith.
> 
> 1. Iguodala- Many of you probably remember Paul Pressey from the Bucks. I think he is a very good comparison for Iguodala. Very good defender, ballhandler and passer, and rebounder for his size, with modest but some scoring ability. Pressey was a wiry very athletic player whom the term point forward was often used with. Iguodala is sort of a Bowen sized defender, with much better ballhandling and passing, and rebounding numbers that suggest he might be able to play the 3 as well as 2. D. Christie might be a good size skill analogy too. I believe he will be that level of defender, a better rebounder than Bowen or christie, better passer ballhandler than either, and offensive scoring ability better than Bowen that might approach Christie, but that is hard to tell. Iguodala is moving up my list because he is still just a sophomore and showing nice growth in his numbers, which projects to continued improvement in the future.
> 
> 2. Okafor- As a Uconn grad I obviously watch him and Gordon alot. I see a little bit of K. Martin and B. Wallace in him. A rebounder better than Martin but not as good as Wallace. As a scorer more like Martin than Wallace, but less range, more inside potential and fewer of his points on fast break dunks. Defensively somewhere in between, not as strong as Wallace or as quick as Martin, but overall defensive ability close to those two. Ballhandling ability and passing close to both of those two meaning not too good.
> 
> 3. Warrick- RLucas has made the Miles comparison which I believe is pretty good (first two years not the last two). I have more mixed reactions to Warrick than any other prospect. They play zone so much I can't get a good read on him defensively. I suspect he will be good there, and consider his ballhandling OK but probably worse than Miles, but his ability to score, at least mid range and inside to be better. Rebounding about the same.
> 
> 4. Deng- The most impressive thing about his game is that as a freshman he seems to have no serious weaknesses, a fully developed well rounded game that projects very nicely as an NBA 3. His numbers are not outstanding in any one category, but pretty good accross the board, and doing it as a freashman on one of the best teams in the country. I see a defender as Good as Battier right now but with more athletic ability and upside. he also looks like he has an NBA three point shot like Battier. The difference is he is much better in other areas. He appears to have a handle and passing ability that is above average for an NBA player his size, much better than Battier, but not at the level of James, Anthony or say J. Mashburn or A. Walker, but potentially close. I expect his rebounding to be only a little above average for an NBA 3 based on his numbers at Duke so far.
> 
> 5. Drejer- I believe Rlucas used a Kukoc comparison I don't remember, and as a smaller version of Kukoc I think the ballhandling/passing analogy is right on. He doesn't put up scoring or rebounding numbers that make me believe he will be as good as kukoc in those areas. Kukoc is nothing special as a rebounder but much bigger than Drejer, and Drejer's rebounding numbers are not very impressive as a college player, suggesting he is more a big guard than small forward. Unfortunately the Kukoc analogy may be accurate on defense. I don't see the athletic ability in Drejer to excel there. I believe his ability to penetrate and dish is more a function of his handle and size than quickness. I would be interested in drejer if we trade for or acquire a mid first round pick, but not where we are expected to draft now.
> 
> 6. Gordon- He is a swing guard in style. I think Terry and Arenas are the best comparisons. He is probably a better ballhandler and passer than most NBA 2's, but not as good as Terry or Arenas, but a pretty good defender and better than those two. His offensive game has alot of variety, take it to the hole, hit the NBA 3, and more unusual a nice midrange pull up jumper. I believe before last year he was pegged as an undersized 2. During a period last year when Taliek Brown was injured, however, he handled the point pretty well and jumped up as a prospect. He can play the point, and the two offensively, defensively some 2's would be a problem at 6-2. He could back up Hinrich and easily play with Crawford. Possibly Hinrich and Gordon could work with maybe Hinrich defending the two.
> 
> 7. Garcia- He is growing on me the more I see of him, and it seems the best comparison is he appears to be a better version of his teammate last year Reece Gaines, a tall ballhandler/passer, except I think Garcia may be better and more athletic accross the board, and maybe a better shooter. I think he could be a 6-7 point guard, a good enough shooter to be a 2, but is too skinny to consider at the 3. Unlike Gordon, because he is 6-7 he could definately be part of a three guard rotation with Hinrich and Crawford. All could shoot the three, handle the ball, and you would have at least one player big enough to guard the 3's.
> 
> 8. Childress- Like Iguodala he rebounds very well for a player his size. He could probably play the 3 but many will project him as a swing player. He looks like more of a slasher, maybe better offensive potential than Warrick or Iguodala, with good athletic ability that projects as a good defender, but not in Iguodala's class. I think his offensive potential seems to ride on his ability to hit the NBA three. He will score using his mobility but his college numbers from three point territory are OK but he may not be good enough from there to be effective at the longer NBA distance. I see all around ability but not exceptional at any one facit, and size that makes him a 2-3 tweener. He might defend as well as say Battier, not as strong but more mobile, and offensively be a little like a smaller Odom.
> 
> 9. Nelson- No qestion about his position, he is a point guard, and at 5-11 or 6 feet only a point guard. on the other hand he could be a pretty good entertaing backup to Hinrich. It seems like the Player of the Year contest this year is between him and Okafor. I can't find many good comparisons for him. I guess I see a little bit of Cassel, B. Jackson and T. Hudson in him. An agressive point guard, better defensively than his size would suggest, good but not great shooter/passer, and a very surprising rebounder for his size. I worry a little about the fact he has moved up so much his senior year. Last year he weighed going hardship and pulled out because he wasn't positive he would go in the first round. To consider him where we are drafting would seem to be a little bit of a reach, but you could probably pencil him in as a good backup for Hinrich.
> 
> Overall I am becomming more and more interested in three swing players, Iguodala, Childress and Garcia. 2/3 for Iguodala/ Childress and 1/2 for Garcia. A starting 3 is the highest priority and I believe Deng if he comes out and we have a chance at him would fill that role. Warrick would be an NBA 3 but because of his lack of perimeter game he is difficult to project. Iguodala and Childress might be tweeners, but perhaps better players overall than Warrick. A lttle undersized at 3 but able to help us at 2 as well. Garcia is too skinny for the 3, but because he can play the point, could get significant minutes backing up Crawford and Hinrich.
> 
> I hope some or all of those players continue to come on and justify an early pick, they may seem to be a little of a reach at this point, but I believe they all will have long NBA careers, and we still have the MLE to pursue another SF, and of course Fizer as trade bait.
> 
> I am very curious about further feedback on Smith and Livingston, and to a lessor degree Howard. We don't need Howard's position, but obviously if we get one of the top two picks we have to consider him or Okafor, but not if Deng comes out. Howard's team I believe is on ESPN2 tonight by the way.
> 
> For Smith he is projected very high and as an NBA 3. From what I hear he is very athletic and a good shooter. But has anyone on this board seen him play? If so could he be the long term solution at the 3 for the Bulls? If so I would take him even if we had to wait a while on his developement.
> 
> As for Livingston his height suggests he could play 1 or 2. If his shot is good enough he might have the potential of getting significant minutes like Garcia backing up Hinrich and Crawford in a three guard rotation. Once again i welcome comments from anyone who has seen him play. Could he play 1 and 2? If so he becomes much more valuable to us.
> 
> Any other players comparisons or comments, agreements or disagreements you would like to add?


Good read WWW!

I'd add Iguodala reminds me someone closer to us as well - Crazy Ron,without the attitude...


----------



## Wild Wild West

Thanks Bullet, I think compared to crazy Ron the defensive skills are similar, but diferrent body types of course with Ron more physical. Despite the poundage difference I think Iguodala will rebound better than Ron and handle the ball and pass better, but probably be a little worse scoring, but that i a combination of skills I could be pretty happy with.


----------



## bullet

I looked for a picture i saw of Iguodala to show u WWW but couldn't find it.
u could see how strong he is in that one,maybe i'll find it later.
tha guy is dam strong,and was a high jumper b4 playing bb.
probably the best athlete in this draft,and i don't think i'm going to far saying he'll be considered the BEST athlete in the hole league

please come back from time to time to us(draft scouting freaks) on draft thread cause u've got the good stuff!!!


----------



## bullet

rlucas - i made the 5000 entry,but at your recomendation i won't demand your cake


----------



## bullet

I say again - watchout for Kris humphries,he;s a freak,VERY strong and he can move that body,very active.

I don't wanna go out of my head here but he reminds me of the young Karl Malone - yes Malone it is!

Karl was only picked at the 13th pick(85) and did not have all the fade aways and 16 footers.he was huge,strong and ran the court like hell.his work ethic made him Karl Malone(or was it his mother??).the kid runs the floor and attacks the glass with no fear what so ever.he's getting better with his J,and has developed nice handle.good from the stripe and gets there.
he's a real stud,though i know the only way we pick him is if we don't get Emeka and trade down???
allready projected at 14 and rising.he also wants to enter the league after Freshmen year.
I erge all scouting freaks on this thread to take a look,but i imagine being freaks u allready have.

opinions on the freakish strong young Humphries???


----------



## dsouljah9

:twave:


----------



## Benny the Bull

Okafor against Boston College

40 mins, 7-15 FG, 2-9 FT, 6 rebs, 2TOs, 2 blks, 16 pts.

Deng against Georgia Tech

36 mins, 8-14 FG, 1-2 3pt, 5-7 FT, 10 rebs, 1 ast, 5 TOs, 1 stl, 3 blks, 22 pts.


----------



## cheezdoodle

> Originally posted by <b>bullet</b>!
> I looked for a picture i saw of Iguodala to show u WWW but couldn't find it.
> u could see how strong he is in that one,maybe i'll find it later.
> tha guy is dam strong,and was a high jumper b4 playing bb.
> probably the best athlete in this draft,and i don't think i'm going to far saying he'll be considered the BEST athlete in the hole league
> 
> please come back from time to time to us(draft scouting freaks) on draft thread cause u've got the good stuff!!!


----------



## bullet

Yes yes yes cheezdoodle!

Your the man,thanks for finding it for me!
what an athlete,and a high jumper!


:allhail:



BTW,what do u think of Humphries?


----------



## cheezdoodle

> Originally posted by <b>bullet</b>!
> Yes yes yes cheezdoodle!
> 
> Your the man,thanks for finding it for me!
> what an athlete,and a high jumper!
> 
> 
> :allhail:
> 
> 
> 
> BTW,what do u think of Humphries?


I've only seen him play once. I wasn't as impressed as most people are. To be honest, I don't think he's starting material in the NBA. 

Check out this site next week, we are launcing on Friday, we have a scout that has seen him play many times, he'll have a nice scouting report on him:

www.draftcity.com


----------



## curry_52

That Iggy pics reminds me of Corey Maggette!


----------



## bullet

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> That Iggy pics reminds me of Corey Maggette!


he's even a better athlete,but less scoring skills no doubt.


----------



## rlucas4257

I just got back from watching Pavel play. I cant get into too much detail into tomorrow, but two words describe him best. Mark Eaton. look back tomorrow for more details


----------



## curry_52

PAvel Update:

14 Minutes
2 Points
1-2 FG
3 Rebounds
1 TO
1 Assist


----------



## rlucas4257

Ok I saw pavel this weekend.

All I can say is Interesting. 

First off for the Bulls, he makes zero sense. He doesnt fit what the Bulls want or need but for a ton of teams (Memphis comes to mind), he might be a difference maker

First off, this guy is just huge. Im talking Mark Eaton huge. And that is who I compare him too. His offense is nowhere near ready. In practice on Friday he was swishing 18 footers and working on his post game, but in the actual game he looked mechanical. His only bucket came on an 18 foot pick and spot up J. While he is huge, he didnt grab a lot of rebounds because he doesnt know leverage. he gets pushed around easily. He does pass the ball well. And his all out court speed isnt bad. But he is not quick. Speed and quickness are 2 different things

Defensively, like I said, mark eaton. He is a difference maker here on day one. The guy is 7-7, maybe 7-8. When he discovers the weight room he will be the first NBA player to play at 400 pounds (unless Oliver Miller got there). This kid can shut down the lane, period. he is going to be better in this aspect of the game then Yao ( though he is No Yao). 

All in all, he is a major project. But put him on a team that only needs 10 min a night and some defense and he might do well. He is going to need alot of time. But he works hard, seems very likable and if you have the time, he might be worth it. He could be a game changer in 3 or 4 years. he needs work on offense, stamina and just looks like a guy who might have injury problems over his career. But he is exciting for someone. And I think a legit place for him to go would be between 8-13.


----------



## dsouljah9

Very interesting info on Pavel...


----------



## Wild Wild West

Thanks for the Pavel info Rlucas. I agree he probably is not a fit for us, but also agree that because of his value to others, you mentioned Memphis, the right to pick him might get us Battier, Posey, Miller or Wells from Memphis or maybe a Butler from Miami etc.

To respond to Bullet I think Humphries is very interesting, probably a short physical PF, I wish he could play the SF but I don't think that would work. He has by probably a runaway margin the best freshman numbers, but I think the team performance is disturbing. Minnesota is doing terrible so he is putting up those numbers on a bad team.

Speaking of numbers on Hoops Hype I was looking at some of the statistics in their mock draft. It furthers points out Iguodala's unique set of skills. Scoring modest as previously mentioned but many would be surprised to see his rebounds per game was the same as Warrick's 8.6, despite being 6-6, and he had more than Deng (6.5), Paul Davis (6.5) or Harrison (8.3). On the other extreme his assits per game (5.4) was better than two high point guard prospects, Gordon (4.8) or Nelson (5.1) and the same as Chris Thomas (5.4). He rebounds like a college PF if not Center, and passes like a point guard, while playing good defense against a variety of sizes.

Other potentially interesting news are the rumors That B. Barry would consider the MLE but wants 4 years which would take him to age 35. The years are a little long but the money suggests anyone could get him for the MLE including us, depending of course on what we get in the draft.

It appears R. Wallace has softened his contract demands and would consider the MLE if he could go where he wants (rumored to be NY). I don't think we would have a chance at him, but we might. our long term prospects are as good as NY.

Anyway I think the FA scenario might evolve pretty well for us if a higher level player falls back to MLE level, and we might be able to sign Crawford for a reasonable figure. As usual there are only a few teams that will be able to offer big bucks, LAC, Phoenix, Utah, Denver, maybe San Antonio. If Wallace goes for the bucks he will get one of those limited slots. If Kobe moves he would get another.

Alot of other players are hoping to get an offer above MLE but if Wallace and Kobe move, there might be only a few left that will get it. Players such as Crawford are in that group, along with I presume Boozer, Nash who I think will stay, Camby, Okur, Dampier, Van Exel, Q, Martin, Kurt Thomas, Divac who I think will stay or retire, and Ginobili. 

I think Martin may be upset with the sale and could move, Boozer and Okur could be in for big paydays, and the others while not max candidates could get more than the MLE.

If few players switch teams and stay put, the Utah's and Denver's etc. may be throwing their money at someone like Crawford or Q. If Wallace, Kobe, Martin and Boozer get those slots, the next tier will be looking at the MLE. It will probably be somewhere in between, but if LAC pursue Kobe, it is possible Q might fall to the MLE, where he could play SF for us, and we might not have to break the bank to keep Crawford.

In addition to B. Barry, it probably means the following players could be had for all or part of the MLE- Miles, Mihm, J. Barry, Rebracca, Foyle, E. Griffin, Person, Hudson, Alston, Kukoc, Traylor, Giricek, Turkoglu, Peterson, Sura, and Ostertag.

Of that batch I like B. Barry the best, but believe Person and Sura would help at guard but not by a huge amount. The same could be said for Peterson, Turkoglu and Miles at SF, along with Kukoc as a temporary solution. To make a big difference I think we need Barry or get lucky with someone from the first group like Q falling to us.

Iguodala and Q to beef up the swing positions could be a nice combo with both able to play SF and SG, with iguodala possible for some PG minutes.


----------



## rlucas4257

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=240330041

Okafor had 25 pts 11 bds and 4 blks. Warrick had 26 pts 11 bds. Apparently this one wasnt close. Uconn won by 20+ pts. Okafor I am hearing just played insane


----------



## truebluefan

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=240330041
> 
> Okafor had 25 pts 11 bds and 4 blks. Warrick had 26 pts 11 bds. Apparently this one wasnt close. Uconn won by 20+ pts. Okafor I am hearing just played insane


Warrick surprised me. U conn had no one that could stop him. Okafor looked good. He has an nba body already.


----------



## bullet

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> Defensively, like I said, mark eaton. He is a difference maker here on day one. The guy is 7-7, maybe 7-8. When he discovers the weight room he will be the first NBA player to play at 400 pounds (unless Oliver Miller got there). This kid can shut down the lane, period. he is going to be better in this aspect of the game then Yao ( though he is No Yao).


Where r u bringing this from,7-7/7-8!

That would be the tallest guy (7-8)to play in the league EVER!

he's listed 7-5,and still growing,so who knows.

It's nice to hear he can hit the 16 footer.

I read a BB team from istanbul found a shepard in some Village in Turkey who is 245 cm(Thats like what 8-2,unhouman)and took him on as a project.he never saw a bb game b4,so i doubt we'll see him in nba.mobility an issue as well(very surprising )

But 8-2!his head isn't that far from the rim


----------



## bullet

> Originally posted by <b>Wild Wild West</b>!
> To respond to Bullet I think Humphries is very interesting, probably a short physical PF, I wish he could play the SF but I don't think that would work. He has by probably a runaway margin the best freshman numbers, but I think the team performance is disturbing. Minnesota is doing terrible so he is putting up those numbers on a bad team.
> 
> Speaking of numbers on Hoops Hype I was looking at some of the statistics in their mock draft. It furthers points out Iguodala's unique set of skills. Scoring modest as previously mentioned but many would be surprised to see his rebounds per game was the same as Warrick's 8.6, despite being 6-6, and he had more than Deng (6.5), Paul Davis (6.5) or Harrison (8.3). On the other extreme his assits per game (5.4) was better than two high point guard prospects, Gordon (4.8) or Nelson (5.1) and the same as Chris Thomas (5.4). He rebounds like a college PF if not Center, and passes like a point guard, while playing good defense against a variety of sizes.


Yup,right now he has PF skills but to me he seems getting better with the relevant SF skills,better handle,better 3pt.if he can work on those he's gonna be a hell of a muscle package to gaurd at SF,since the speed and quickness of the position he allready has.and yes,it's true,he's doing it on a bad team,but remember where Pip used to play,worse college team for sure.

Iguodala just has high skills in every part of the game but scoring.and he's doing it on a good team.I really like him but i can't believe we gonna pick him at 1-5.only if we trade down to 5-10 will it become likely.I do not think there has been an overall better athlete then this guy in the league yet.some places he's listed 6-7 so i guess he's 200 cm+-.does anybody know something about his Vertical???
as a former high jumper i'd have to say 45+,and that about means he has to put his head down when he attacks the rim,just to avoid the stiches


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>bullet</b>!
> 
> 
> Where r u bringing this from,7-7/7-8!
> 
> That would be the tallest guy (7-8)to play in the league EVER!
> 
> he's listed 7-5,and still growing,so who knows.
> 
> It's nice to hear he can hit the 16 footer.
> 
> I read a BB team from istanbul found a shepard in some Village in Turkey who is 245 cm(Thats like what 8-2,unhouman)and took him on as a project.he never saw a bb game b4,so i doubt we'll see him in nba.mobility an issue as well(very surprising )
> 
> But 8-2!his head isn't that far from the rim


Hey bullet, whats up? Long time no talk. 

The word on Pavel was that he was 7-6 when he had surgery last summer to repair his pituatary gland, which was causing the abnormal growth. if they didnt repair that gland, there was speculation he might hit 8 feet at some point. Apparently it was that out of control, which will scare some NBA teams I am sure. The repairing of the gland will stop him from growing any more. But it doesnt just stop it immediately, it slows it down before stopping it. The word is this guy is above that 7-6 number that I threw out there. He might not top out at Manutes 7-7 or higher.


----------



## Benny the Bull

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=240330041
> 
> Okafor had 25 pts 11 bds and 4 blks. Warrick had 26 pts 11 bds. Apparently this one wasnt close. Uconn won by 20+ pts. Okafor I am hearing just played insane


I watched the game and Okafor was good. Rebounded really well, and controlled the paint. A few things I noticed:

Runs the floor very well.

Very good starting the fast break with an outlet pass.

Very good rebounder. Boxes out well and seems to have the ability to judge where the ball will go. Plus he is so athletic, his standing jump ability would have to be very good.

Gets to the foul line. His weakness is his FT shooting.

Hard to say how good his post game is. Couple of times he hit a turn around from about 10ft. Hit a couple of jumpers from 15ft. The rest were lay ups and dunks. Also Syracuse play that 2-3 zone, which made it hard for him to work in the post.

Warrick is a very good player. His problem looks like he will be a 6'8", 210lbs PF.

Paxson was at the game.


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>Benny the Bull</b>!
> 
> 
> I watched the game and Okafor was good. Rebounded really well, and controlled the paint. A few things I noticed:
> 
> Runs the floor very well.
> 
> Very good starting the fast break with an outlet pass.
> 
> Very good rebounder. Boxes out well and seems to have the ability to judge where the ball will go. Plus he is so athletic, his standing jump ability would have to be very good.
> 
> Gets to the foul line. His weakness is his FT shooting.
> 
> Hard to say how good his post game is. Couple of times he hit a turn around from about 10ft. Hit a couple of jumpers from 15ft. The rest were lay ups and dunks. Also Syracuse play that 2-3 zone, which made it hard for him to work in the post.
> 
> Warrick is a very good player. His problem looks like he will be a 6'8", 210lbs PF.
> 
> Paxson was at the game.


Thats interesting to hear. pax has been to atleast 2 UConn games. Seems to me that Okafor would fit that gritty style that he wants


----------



## Benny the Bull

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> Thats interesting to hear. pax has been to atleast 2 UConn games. Seems to me that Okafor would fit that gritty style that he wants


It's an interesting dilemma Paxson has if we are in the position to get Okafor. If you pick Okafor, you trade Chandler/Curry with a bad contract and hopefully get a SF like Marion or Lewis. Or you pick Okafor to trade him (just what will his value be draft day?). Put it this way, I just don't see anyone in the draft that can help us as much as Okafor can. Deng may, but won't be Melo like, and probably stays another year. For me, it Okafor or bust, since he is likely the guy to have the most value. Teams may like Howard, Pavel, Smith etc, but what would they be willing to trade for these guys? Not much, IMO. They probably would have learnt from Krause in the Brand trade.


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>Benny the Bull</b>!
> 
> 
> It's an interesting dilemma Paxson has if we are in the position to get Okafor. If you pick Okafor, you trade Chandler/Curry with a bad contract and hopefully get a SF like Marion or Lewis. Or you pick Okafor to trade him (just what will his value be draft day?). Put it this way, I just don't see anyone in the draft that can help us as much as Okafor can. Deng may, but won't be Melo like, and probably stays another year. For me, it Okafor or bust, since he is likely the guy to have the most value. Teams may like Howard, Pavel, Smith etc, but what would they be willing to trade for these guys? Not much, IMO. They probably would have learnt from Krause in the Brand trade.


It has to be Okafor or Deng. I would call them option 1 and 1a. No one else at the top of the draft makes sense. take Okafor and probably deal chandler is going to be the option. I doubt they deal Okafor. The reason being is that they wouldnt have to worry about his contract for 3 years.


----------



## Benny the Bull

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> It has to be Okafor or Deng. I would call them option 1 and 1a. No one else at the top of the draft makes sense. take Okafor and probably deal chandler is going to be the option. I doubt they deal Okafor. The reason being is that they wouldnt have to worry about his contract for 3 years.


Hyperthetically, what if Okafor could get you McGrady? Would you keep Okafor then?

If we keep Okafor, I initially thought I'd keep Chandler. Now I don't know. Much depend on how good offensively Okafor is. If that area of his game really develops, then a Okafor/Chandler frontcourt could be a monster defensively. Questions about Curry include will he ever to be a decent rebounder and defender? Can the Bulls teach him the work ethic necessary to get the most out of his talent? But will Chandler get the strength to play center? How is his back? Questions Paxson has to consider.

Curry and Okafor would be good too. Okafor has an 15 ft jumper, but he didn't look really comfortale outside. I've only seen him once, and will watch him more, but his post seems to be coming along better based on what I've read, so will that clash with Curry. So maybe it isn't as simple.


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>Benny the Bull</b>!
> 
> 
> Hyperthetically, what if Okafor could get you McGrady? Would you keep Okafor then?
> 
> If we keep Okafor, I initially thought I'd keep Chandler. Now I don't know. Much depend on how good offensively Okafor is. If that area of his game really develops, then a Okafor/Chandler frontcourt could be a monster defensively. Questions about Curry include will he ever to be a decent rebounder and defender? Can the Bulls teach him the work ethic necessary to get the most out of his talent? But will Chandler get the strength to play center? How is his back? Questions Paxson has to consider.
> 
> Curry and Okafor would be good too. Okafor has an 15 ft jumper, but he didn't look really comfortale outside. I've only seen him once, and will watch him more, but his post seems to be coming along better based on what I've read, so will that clash with Curry. So maybe it isn't as simple.


I agree. I think the question becomes how Okafor complements Curry, which initially isnt great. However, I dont think Chandler complements him at all either. Ultimately, the decision has to be based on 2 things. Who has the bigger upside between the 3 and who is the most easily replacable? I believe Curry and Okafor have bigger upsides then Chandler (who still has a ton of upside but we know Curry can get you 30 pts in a night, and that is rare). The other thing is who is most easily replacable? Well I think athletic 4s are a dime a dozen in the NBA. Okafor sure fits that mold as well, and I acknowledge that. but he will be a cheap contract for 3 to4 years and can do everything Tyson can and is much stronger. If the Bulls are worried about replacing Tysons length, they could just get lucky and get Anderson Varajao in round 2. Anderson has a ton of upside as well. And While I hate to say it, there isnt much Tyson can do that Anderson cant. Thats the thing, athletic, jumping jack 4s run rampant. The Bulls also might be able to just get Stromile Swift for the MLE. The big question is how Okafor and Curry play on the offensive end. The good news is that Okafor seems to be developing an offensive game. A guy that I really respect told me to go back and look at David Robinson tapes from his days at the Naval Academy and then watch Okafor tapes and then tell him if he sees any difference? So I did. And to be honest, I couldn t tell any difference. And before people tell me that the college game was much better then (which i acknowledge it is), lets also remember that Robinson played in the Colonial Conference which didnt have a ton of NBA level big guys in it. I think Pax knows what he wants to do if that situation arises.


----------



## bullet

Magic have the same chance of getting Emeka as we do at the moment.

Very nice observasions of Okafurs game Benny,good read


----------



## curry_52

If the Bulls are lucky to get the #1 (or 2# or #3 for that matter) we would be in good position to trade, say, Emeka + AD for an All-Star. Emeka would work as the trade bait and AD will make things happen salary wise. If Chandler can fully recover from that back problem, I would have no problem in trading Emeka and AD (Or E-Rob + JYD, or a combination) for an established superstar. 
I heard 10000 times that LA will not make a sign and trade involving Kobe. With Malone declining and having health issues, would LA accept Emeka + AD + re-signed Crawford for re-signed Kobe and filler? 
I dont know. If Pax gets lucky as his brother (Rights to LeBron last lottery) we will be in very good position, with roster flexibility.
I dont have any problem trading either Chandler or Emeka (If we get #1), but dont touch Eddy Curry.


----------



## curry_52

BTW, It would look like this:

C: Curry
PF: Chandler
SF: E-Rob
SG: Kobe
PG: Hinrich

Top 5 seed in the East, easily.


----------



## bullet

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> BTW, It would look like this:
> 
> C: Curry
> PF: Chandler
> SF: E-Rob
> SG: Kobe
> PG: Hinrich
> 
> Top 5 seed in the East, easily.


Curry 52 - cause it's the draft sticky I'd say Darius Rice at SF.
ERobs name just hurts my eyes in that lineup!


----------



## curry_52

> Originally posted by <b>bullet</b>!
> 
> 
> Curry 52 - cause it's the draft sticky I'd say Darius Rice at SF.
> ERobs name just hurts my eyes in that lineup!


With E-Rob its all about mental work. As of late, he is one of our best players (Thats not saying much, though).


----------



## rlucas4257

drejer remains a very interesting pick in my opinion. He is heating up right now. he isnt going to score alot on the NBA level, but he is so good at everything else


----------



## rlucas4257

James White remains a sleeper


----------



## curry_52

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> James White remains a sleeper


I havent been watching White, but by looking at his stats he isnt getting it done. Maybe he can be a Gerald Wallace type of player...


----------



## Benny the Bull

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> I agree. I think the question becomes how Okafor complements Curry, which initially isnt great. However, I dont think Chandler complements him at all either. Ultimately, the decision has to be based on 2 things. Who has the bigger upside between the 3 and who is the most easily replacable? I believe Curry and Okafor have bigger upsides then Chandler (who still has a ton of upside but we know Curry can get you 30 pts in a night, and that is rare). The other thing is who is most easily replacable? Well I think athletic 4s are a dime a dozen in the NBA. Okafor sure fits that mold as well, and I acknowledge that. but he will be a cheap contract for 3 to4 years and can do everything Tyson can and is much stronger. If the Bulls are worried about replacing Tysons length, they could just get lucky and get Anderson Varajao in round 2. Anderson has a ton of upside as well. And While I hate to say it, there isnt much Tyson can do that Anderson cant. Thats the thing, athletic, jumping jack 4s run rampant. The Bulls also might be able to just get Stromile Swift for the MLE. The big question is how Okafor and Curry play on the offensive end. The good news is that Okafor seems to be developing an offensive game. A guy that I really respect told me to go back and look at David Robinson tapes from his days at the Naval Academy and then watch Okafor tapes and then tell him if he sees any difference? So I did. And to be honest, I couldn t tell any difference. And before people tell me that the college game was much better then (which i acknowledge it is), lets also remember that Robinson played in the Colonial Conference which didnt have a ton of NBA level big guys in it. I think Pax knows what he wants to do if that situation arises.


Some other things to consider with Okafor.

Okafor is playing in a weaker college game than when Duncan and D-Rob played, with so many kids coming out early. Where is the real competition. Could that be a reason he is so dominant?

Okafor probably has a strength advantage over most of his opponents, which he probably won't have in the NBA. 

Size. Okafor is big by college standards, but he is average for a PF in the NBA. How would this effect his game? Chandler has that length that can't be taught. It would actually be interesting to see what Okafor wingspan is since he plays taller than his height. 

Just some other things Paxson has to consider if we are in a position to take Okafor.

Thanks for the kind words bullet!


----------



## Benny the Bull

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> drejer remains a very interesting pick in my opinion. He is heating up right now. he isnt going to score alot on the NBA level, but he is so good at everything else


If we had the season most Bulls fans hoped we would (at worst 8th seed in the East), I thought Drejer would have been the perfect guy to eventually fill the SF position with Kirk, JC, Tyson and Eddy. That's who I would've drafted at this stage.

I've taken less interest in him because of the position we are now in, since we will be picking from the top 5 and Drejer wouldn't go that high. But he is a very good all round player.


----------



## BEEZ

> Originally posted by <b>Benny the Bull</b>!
> 
> 
> If we had the season most Bulls fans hoped we would (at worst 8th seed in the East), I thought Drejer would have been the perfect guy to eventually fill the SF position with Kirk, JC, Tyson and Eddy. That's who I would've drafted at this stage.
> 
> I've taken less interest in him because of the position we are now in, since we will be picking from the top 5 and Drejer wouldn't go that high. But he is a very good all round player.


Trade down


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>Benny the Bull</b>!
> 
> 
> Some other things to consider with Okafor.
> 
> Okafor is playing in a weaker college game than when Duncan and D-Rob played, with so many kids coming out early. Where is the real competition. Could that be a reason he is so dominant?
> 
> Okafor probably has a strength advantage over most of his opponents, which he probably won't have in the NBA.
> 
> Size. Okafor is big by college standards, but he is average for a PF in the NBA. How would this effect his game? Chandler has that length that can't be taught. It would actually be interesting to see what Okafor wingspan is since he plays taller than his height.
> 
> Just some other things Paxson has to consider if we are in a position to take Okafor.
> 
> Thanks for the kind words bullet!


In comparison to Tim Duncan, yes. In comparison to David Robinson, no. David Robinson played in the colonial conference. That conference housed such power houses and George Washington, Richmond, etc. I am sure Emeka Okafor sees better competition night in and night out then David Robinson did back then.


----------



## bullet

I don't mind the competition,Emeka is a Stud.

What kind of competition did Pip have in college(central Arkansaw  ) to go at %th.or Lebron at Highschool. 

A stud is a stud,and Emeka fits the description!!!!


----------



## Wild Wild West

I am getting a little worried about the Fizer rumors. The Jaric/Ely speculation had me excited, Dooling/Ely would be giving him away for two unproductive players. 

The Bulls have a problem with what to do with him. Clearly if he stays and everyone is healthy he is the #3 PF behind Chandler and Williams. I don't think this year is a true gage of his ability, because players often take a full two years to fully recover from ACL surgeries. In theory he should also be better near the end of this season than in the beginning. Remember last year he was pretty good after a bad start, and has shown significant improvement, particularly in rebounding from his rookie year.

The problem is he will probably be paid too much for a number 3 PF on this team, and Pax has probably concluded that they will not match a significant offer, so they are trying to get something rather than letting him walk for nothing. The fact that teams suspect that, and that he may not be able to demonstrate how far he has truly come back until next year makes it hard to unload him. I think teams are trying to value him based on how he looks now compared to where they would expect him to be roughly one year after surgery, and that is very difficult to do.

Obviously he is or most valuable trading piece in that you might get someone that could be in our rotation at SG or SF whereas he is not in our rotation now. I wouldn't move him just to move him, however, if we can't get a difference maker for us, not necessarily a starter but significant minutes and clearly an upgrade, then I would keep him for now, and consider matching if it is pretty reasonable and/or trading him for a player or draft choice this summer.

It is possible he may show a continued physical improvement where by the end of the season he has regained most of his market value and we could get more for him. There are a number of players he could be traded for particularly if we sweetened the pot a little, but I see a lot of possibilities for a draft pick too.

There are alot of players that many of us on this board like, but seem a little like a reach for say a top five pick. At SF for example the consensus seems to be that only Deng and Smith would be worthy of consideration that high, and of course one or both of those may not come out. As a late lottery or midrange pick there are plenty of candidates with many supporters on this board, with the usual candidates being players like Iguodala, Warrick, Childress, Monya, Drejer, Garcia, and maybe even Chiraev or a long term backup to Hinrich like Felton or Nelson.

Couldn't Fizer and maybe some other considerations get us a pick somewhere in that range? If so I would rather get a Deng or Smith with the early pick and one of these other guys later. In essence two swing players or one SF and one SG with our pick and Fizer. Of course we might wind up taking an Okafor, Howard or Podkolzine because they warrant the early picks, but if that happens I presume that player or Chandler or Curry will be moved to get the SF they desire. 

Another possible situation involves Jerome Williams playing a little more as a SF like he did last night. I have mixed reactions to that strategy, but if it looks like that could be more common, then Fizer has much more value to us and he might start getting some regular minutes.

My main point is don't give him away because you don't want to resign him, he may have more value later, and don't conclude that what you are getting from him now is as good as it will get. He probably still has about a year to continue to improve the knee.


----------



## bullet

Luol Deng back on nbadraft.like b4 at #4.

did anyone hear something that he said that put him back on Mock draft list???


----------



## rlucas4257

Deng last night on the road in OT against UNC

17 pts, 12 bds 5apg

Pax cant go wrong with either him or Okafor. Unfortunately, those are the only 2 "for sures" in this crop


----------



## InPaxWeTrust

For our sake as Bulls' fans sure we want Deng in the draft. From the kids' perspective he needs to stay another year. He has all the tools to be one of the most versatile players in the NBA one day. That perimeter game of his needs work though and staying at Duke is the best way for him to do that. He has Grant Hill mentoring him so you can bet Hill is telling him the same thing.


----------



## Benny the Bull

> Originally posted by <b>basghetti80</b>!
> For our sake as Bulls' fans sure we want Deng in the draft. From the kids' perspective he needs to stay another year. He has all the tools to be one of the most versatile players in the NBA one day. That perimeter game of his needs work though and staying at Duke is the best way for him to do that. He has Grant Hill mentoring him so you can bet Hill is telling him the same thing.


I agree Bas. I think it's in his best interests to stay another year, and I think that's what he'll do. His perimeter game, as you mentioned, is his weakness, but once that is sorted out, he could be exceptional.


----------



## rlucas4257

interesting article in Insider about Deng and the Duke curse today


----------



## rlucas4257

message for Cheezedoodle. 

I went to draftcity.com and there was a site but no way to enter. Is everything set up for it?


----------



## Rodman

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> interesting article in Insider about Deng and the Duke curse today


The curse of Duke, yes interesting article thanks for pointing it out rlucas. 
who would take Deng regardless? Guess I would..


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>Rodman</b>!
> 
> 
> The curse of Duke, yes interesting article thanks for pointing it out rlucas.
> who would take Deng regardless? Guess I would..


Deng is an outstanding prospect. So I am with you Rodman, screw the curse. He played well against UNC or so I have been told. either he or Okafor would really help our cause.


----------



## InPaxWeTrust

Yeah Deng played really well last night. Outside shot was off but for that matter so was JJ Redicks. This reminds of something funny Billy Packer said during the game. After Deng grabbed a huge rebound late in the game, Packer said," Deng with the board, Dang what a huge rebound that was!"


----------



## bullet

rlucas - Kris Humphries at 10th already!

But it has to do nothing to do with the fact I agree it's Emeka od Deng or trade down... and get Humphries:grinning:


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>basghetti80</b>!
> Yeah Deng played really well last night. Outside shot was off but for that matter so was JJ Redicks. This reminds of something funny Billy Packer said during the game. After Deng grabbed a huge rebound late in the game, Packer said," Deng with the board, Dang what a huge rebound that was!"


was it Vitale or Packer who did the game? Thats hilarious. I only saw the highlights on sportscenter. It looked like another duke unc classic

Bullet, Humphries is your boy. And he appears to be climbing fast. He did the right thing by not going to duke. With shelden williams, whos is climbing, Deng, and Randolph, minutes were going to be hard for anyone. Can humphries play the 3 at the NBA level is the question? let me know what you think. I have zero visibility on it as I have yet to see him play


----------



## bullet

Well,I'm not sure!his handle has gotten much better,and his shot as well.mostly he prefers power moves,and he is as quick as they get at 240.
no doubt he can guard the 3 in nba,he has the speed and can overpower almost every sf in the league(VERY STRONG).
His J is not in the level required at the position yet,but he's only a freshman and shows the abillity to get better.I wouldn't say it's bad though,I'd say Honest.
we need a shooter,I know that,but in case we trade down and he's still there to pick,I just think he'll be the best player left to pick.I also believe he's a player that can contribute right away,and has an nba ready body.
I can't say I'd be sad if we trade down and get Iguadala,although he's not a scorer!

By the way,if we had 1st pick,would u pick Deng or Emeka???

I'd have to go with Emeka (and I love Dengs complete game) , I just think he's the surest,and probably the best in this Draft!


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>bullet</b>!
> Well,I'm not sure!his handle has gotten much better,and his shot as well.mostly he prefers power moves,and he is as quick as they get at 240.
> no doubt he can guard the 3 in nba,he has the speed and can overpower almost every sf in the league(VERY STRONG).
> His J is not in the level required at the position yet,but he's only a freshman and shows the abillity to get better.I wouldn't say it's bad though,I'd say Honest.
> we need a shooter,I know that,but in case we trade down and he's still there to pick,I just think he'll be the best player left to pick.I also believe he's a player that can contribute right away,and has an nba ready body.
> I can't say I'd be sad if we trade down and get Iguadala,although he's not a scorer!
> 
> By the way,if we had 1st pick,would u pick Deng or Emeka???
> 
> I'd have to go with Emeka (and I love Dengs complete game) , I just think he's the surest,and probably the best in this Draft!


Its so close. I dont even have 2 options. I call them 1 and 1a. Id go Okafor and then Deng. But its too close to call. 

I wouldnt mind Igoudala either. And Humphries is someone I am going to have to watch. I asked someone about him, and the comparison to Al Harrington was said. Is this about right?


----------



## bullet

Not a bad comparison!

Both play tough BB and and have the perfect body frame.

U can take Emeka and trade him for Deng and get another present.


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>bullet</b>!
> Not a bad comparison!
> 
> Both play tough BB and and have the perfect body frame.
> 
> U can take Emeka and trade him for Deng and get another present.


If you could sucker someone into giving you Deng and a piece for Okafor, do it.


----------



## bullet

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> If you could sucker someone into giving you Deng and a piece for Okafor, do it.


Wll,actually I don't think it would be that hard,and we won't be making a sucker of anyone.
think of the teams right around our pick - Magic,Wizzards,Hawks,Bobcats and Cavs,I think would go far for a guy like Emeka,so basically,I don't think u're fooling them!


----------



## Jim Stack

this draft will turn out like the 2000 draft a bunch of crap with no true stars. you call it even i say it a lack of talent when a ben wallace type is being held as the number one pick. that means all hussle not talent.. say like a kenyan marton


----------



## bullet

> Originally posted by <b>Jim Stack</b>!
> this draft will turn out like the 2000 draft a bunch of crap with no true stars. you call it even i say it a lack of talent when a ben wallace type is being held as the number one pick. that means all hussle not talent.. say like a kenyan marton


I disagree!

I think there is a nice stock of players who will make it in this league,but then again,only time will tell.....


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>bullet</b>!
> 
> 
> I disagree!
> 
> I think there is a nice stock of players who will make it in this league,but then again,only time will tell.....


If Deng comes out, I think there is 2 bonafide stars. the international crop looks very shaky right now. Lots of talent there but with guys like Splitter and Samardizski as well as Kosta having huge buyouts, its unclear whether they will be there. It they are, its another good crop, if not, probably subpar. But any draft in whcih you might be able to get Sato, Duhon, Varajao in round 2, then you know there is depth


----------



## chifaninca

Can someone give me a read on Al Jefferson?

I was surfing and saw some really touting this guy.  Found this link.

6'9" 260# is he a SF or PF? Threw down 66 in front of West. Averaging almost 40PPG. 


Another HS player to jump to NBA with Jerry West as a fan.... 

Too many HS guys jumping.


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>chifaninca</b>!
> Can someone give me a read on Al Jefferson?
> 
> I was surfing and saw some really touting this guy. Found this link.
> 
> 6'9" 260# is he a SF or PF? Threw down 66 in front of West. Averaging almost 40PPG.
> 
> 
> Another HS player to jump to NBA with Jerry West as a fan....
> 
> Too many HS guys jumping.


There might be, and i kid you not, 7 HSers taken in round 1 to go with 10 Foreign kids. Just to think 10 years ago, all you had to do was scout college juniors and seniors


----------



## chifaninca

Rlucas or others,

Is this kid for real? Is he another Wagner scoring big cause he's that good or is he a HSer in a man's body dunking on kids - like Chandler


----------



## cheezdoodle

Sorry for being MIA lately, I've been putting 6 and 8 hour shifts into our site, we should be launching by Monday or Tuesday this week.

I just finished watching Kris Humphries and here is what I wrote on the draft board:

That was a great game to watch, thanks for giving up the heads up on that Ozzy. I got about 2 pages of notes off that. After watching this game I very strongly feel that Kris will be a PF in the NBA, not a SF. He's a great player with a tremendous feel for the game, no doubt about it, but he just does not have the ball handling or quickness (mainly in his first step) to hang on the perimeter. Sure he is a good shooter, but he doesn't really shoot off the dribble which is a skill that you must have to play outside of the post in the NBA. In the three times I've seen him so far, I haven't seen much of a midrange game from him either. His defense has a LONG ways to go, some of his flaws are correctable, like biting on pump fakes, showing on screens and rotations, but some of them aren't, like his lateral quickness which is a very important trait. He does have a nice wingspan though (do you have a number on that Ozzy?) so he plays bigger then his 6-8. I can see him becoming a good PF role player in the NBA, but I don't see him as a lottery pick right now, and certainly not star calibur. He's very interesting though, I'm going to do my best to see him play as much as possible. I like the way he plays, although he could do a better job of moving the ball around more.


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>chifaninca</b>!
> Rlucas or others,
> 
> Is this kid for real? Is he another Wagner scoring big cause he's that good or is he a HSer in a man's body dunking on kids - like Chandler


I wish I knew. i will ask around and get back to you on this


----------



## curry_52

Real Madrid 79
TAU 78

Nocioni 
31 Minutes
21 Points
4/5 2PT FG
2/8 3PT FG
7/7 FT
10 Rebounds (3 Offensive Rebs)
1 Steal
4 TOs


Macijauskas
17 Minutes
2 Points
1/3 2PT FG
0/2 3PT FG
2 Rebounds
1 Assist
3 TOs

Kambala
29 Minutes
14 Points
5 Rebounds
1 Steal
2 TOs


----------



## bullet

> Originally posted by <b>cheezdoodle</b>!
> Sorry for being MIA lately, I've been putting 6 and 8 hour shifts into our site, we should be launching by Monday or Tuesday this week.
> 
> I just finished watching Kris Humphries and here is what I wrote on the draft board:
> 
> That was a great game to watch, thanks for giving up the heads up on that Ozzy. I got about 2 pages of notes off that. After watching this game I very strongly feel that Kris will be a PF in the NBA, not a SF. He's a great player with a tremendous feel for the game, no doubt about it, but he just does not have the ball handling or quickness (mainly in his first step) to hang on the perimeter. Sure he is a good shooter, but he doesn't really shoot off the dribble which is a skill that you must have to play outside of the post in the NBA. In the three times I've seen him so far, I haven't seen much of a midrange game from him either. His defense has a LONG ways to go, some of his flaws are correctable, like biting on pump fakes, showing on screens and rotations, but some of them aren't, like his lateral quickness which is a very important trait. He does have a nice wingspan though (do you have a number on that Ozzy?) so he plays bigger then his 6-8. I can see him becoming a good PF role player in the NBA, but I don't see him as a lottery pick right now, and certainly not star calibur. He's very interesting though, I'm going to do my best to see him play as much as possible. I like the way he plays, although he could do a better job of moving the ball around more.


I wrote b4 he reminded me of young Karl Malone(13th pick) who was very strong and could move fast when he entered the league,and did not have many of the skills he aquired in the next 6-8 years.


----------



## bullet

> Originally posted by <b>chifaninca</b>!
> Rlucas or others,
> 
> Is this kid for real? Is he another Wagner scoring big cause he's that good or is he a HSer in a man's body dunking on kids - like Chandler


wasn't he injured or something else to scare scouts??


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> Real Madrid 79
> TAU 78
> 
> Nocioni
> 31 Minutes
> 21 Points
> 4/5 2PT FG
> 2/8 3PT FG
> 7/7 FT
> 10 Rebounds (3 Offensive Rebs)
> 1 Steal
> 4 TOs
> 
> 
> Macijauskas
> 17 Minutes
> 2 Points
> 1/3 2PT FG
> 0/2 3PT FG
> 2 Rebounds
> 1 Assist
> 3 TOs
> 
> Kambala
> 29 Minutes
> 14 Points
> 5 Rebounds
> 1 Steal
> 2 TOs


Arvydas had some problems moving in this game. Speculation he tweaked his ankle early in the game


----------



## cheezdoodle

> Originally posted by <b>bullet</b>!
> 
> 
> I wrote b4 he reminded me of young Karl Malone(13th pick) who was very strong and could move fast when he entered the league,and did not have many of the skills he aquired in the next 6-8 years.


Humpries reminds me a lot of Marcus Fizer coming out of college. I know that I'll get blasted for that since this is a Bulls board but I think that Fizer was never properly utilized in Chicago and he could have been a very nice role player if he didn't get injured the way he did. 

This is a scouting report written about Fizer coming out of college:

Fizer has been compared to Karl Malone because of his ability to get his shot off quicker and more accurate than any other power forward in college. He is also powerfully built, and although some have listed him anywhere from 6'5" to 6'8", his incredible strength will allow him to compete with other NBA forwards. He has great range on his jump shot and is quick enough to play the small forward position. His defense was very suspect last year, but he improved it greatly this year. He might have trouble guarding taller post players, but has had a great work ethic throughout his career.


----------



## curry_52

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> Arvydas had some problems moving in this game. Speculation he tweaked his ankle early in the game


Mario Stojic slowed him down.


----------



## curry_52

Benetton Treviso 88
Metis Varese 78

Pavel:
12 Minutes
1 Point
0-2 FG
1-2 FT
2 Rebounds
1 Block
1 TO


----------



## rlucas4257

can we have an improptu poll here? Grinch and I were talking. Are the Bulls completely shutting the door on taking a HS kid? I mean Josh Smith and Ivan Chiriavev are nice prospects, but are they, or should they be off our board? My answers is that if we have to take another HS kid, we take another HS kid. thats my 2 cents


----------



## cheezdoodle

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> can we have an improptu poll here? Grinch and I were talking. Are the Bulls completely shutting the door on taking a HS kid? I mean Josh Smith and Ivan Chiriavev are nice prospects, but are they, or should they be off our board? My answers is that if we have to take another HS kid, we take another HS kid. thats my 2 cents


I know that Paxson doesn't really care about this kind of stuff, but I really think that selecting a HS kid would demorailze the fans that don't follow the draft religiously like us and it would give the media so much more ammo to attack the team, more then they already have. If he's going to pick someone, I think it's going to be someone that's already polished, like Hinrich was last year. 

Rlucas, did you get a chance to see Humphries on CBS today?


----------



## curry_52

If Josh Howard were to be LeBron part II, do you think Pax will pass on him for a chance to take Deng or Okafor? Obviously not. Its not a matter of age, its maturity, talent and whether they are cant miss prospects. I dont see any HS prospect right now that fits that "Cant miss" label, so Pax will not take a chance on them. 
Trading bait, yes. Keepers, not.


----------



## Benny the Bull

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> can we have an improptu poll here? Grinch and I were talking. Are the Bulls completely shutting the door on taking a HS kid? I mean Josh Smith and Ivan Chiriavev are nice prospects, but are they, or should they be off our board? My answers is that if we have to take another HS kid, we take another HS kid. thats my 2 cents


I don't see us picking a HS kid. The only way I see it happening is if we can get a couple of established SF's, and the guy plays behind them. I think it would be detrimental to the development of the 3 C's and Kirk getting another developing player. I would be looking to trade the pick, but if you can't get what you want back, you may need to keep the pick.


----------



## truebluefan

> Originally posted by <b>cheezdoodle</b>!
> 
> 
> I know that Paxson doesn't really care about this kind of stuff, but I really think that selecting a HS kid would demorailze the fans that don't follow the draft religiously like us and it would give the media so much more ammo to attack the team, more then they already have. If he's going to pick someone, I think it's going to be someone that's already polished, like Hinrich was last year.
> 
> Rlucas, did you get a chance to see Humphries on CBS today?


I agree with you. HS player talented or not, for all practical purposes we brought along three HS players and look where we are at now. If we were competing for a playoff spot and had a .500 record, maybe I could see pax. taking a HS player but not now. 

Seeing Howard play, I would pass on him. I know it is just one game, but if okafor is available, why do we take Howard? 

We pass on the guys. Or trade down to other teams.


----------



## rlucas4257

Howard i really believe is off the Bulls board. I just dont see that happening. But Josh Smith and Ivan Chiriavev, maybe. Interestingly Pax talked about it today in the newspaper


----------



## truebluefan

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> Howard i really believe is off the Bulls board. I just dont see that happening. But Josh Smith and Ivan Chiriavev, maybe. Interestingly Pax talked about it today in the newspaper


Do you have the link? I want to see what he said.


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>truebluefan</b>!
> 
> 
> Do you have the link? I want to see what he said.


Im speculating on Howard. But he said he is looking at HS players. Its in one of the major web sites. Suntimes or Tribune or one of those. McGraw takes Sundays off so it has to be one of those


----------



## truebluefan

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> Im speculating on Howard. But he said he is looking at HS players. Its in one of the major web sites. Suntimes or Tribune or one of those. McGraw takes Sundays off so it has to be one of those


Ok, thanks.


----------



## cheezdoodle

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> Im speculating on Howard. But he said he is looking at HS players. Its in one of the major web sites. Suntimes or Tribune or one of those. McGraw takes Sundays off so it has to be one of those


Posted on a Gator board:

http://www.suntimes.com/output/sports/cst-spt-draft09.html

Everyone is of course pissed to see that Drejer is considered a lotto pick. They all think he'll be back next year for some reason.


----------



## truebluefan

thanks Cheezdoodle. 

*''I would never rule anything out,'' he said. ''I wasn't part of the process before when [Krause drafted Curry and traded Elton Brand to the Clippers for the rights to Chandler]. But you have to look at everything. I thought Krause's decision was definitely a bold move. Everybody did. But it also happened at the time when [preps-to-pros prospects] Kobe Bryant, Kevin Garnett and Tracy McGrady had proven that this is a potentially legit way to do business.''*

So he will indeed consider a HS player. Actually that is a smart statement. It forces other teams to deal with him should a player they want fall to us. If he eliminates HS players then that reduces some of his options.


----------



## curry_52

Ivanovic (TAU's coach) is questioning Macijauskas mentality

:laugh:


----------



## andras

> Originally posted by <b>Benny the Bull</b>!
> I don't see us picking a HS kid. I think it would be detrimental to the development of the 3 C's and Kirk getting another developing player.


I'm not sure about this. Say we pick Josh Smith who seems intriguing. Obviously we should have another SF that's starter quality (here's hoping Erob might help us out while Smith devolops). what's the problem with him fighting for minutes? it might actually make the 3 C's understand they're no longer baby Bulls. Smith would be the only baby Bull. Eddy, Tyson and Jamal should be starting and delivering! having Smith around may make this even more clear to them. it's another way to deliver that 'No Excuses'-message to the 3 C's

anyway after seeing that Sun-Times list and after reading all the info up here - good job guys!!  - I'm fairly confident I'm gonna be one happy sailor on draft day. 3 SF's on #5-7 is a good thing for bad team like ours looking for a long term solution on that position

something completely different: in the same Sun-Times article Pavel is said to be "running the floor like a guard". that's a surprise to me. I admit not reading much nor very carefully about Pavel since we shouldn't have any interest in the guy, but I've always considered him to be a big - make that very big - stiff. is this incorrect?


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>andras</b>!
> 
> 
> I'm not sure about this. Say we pick Josh Smith who seems intriguing. Obviously we should have another SF that's starter quality (here's hoping Erob might help us out while Smith devolops). what's the problem with him fighting for minutes? it might actually make the 3 C's understand they're no longer baby Bulls. Smith would be the only baby Bull. Eddy, Tyson and Jamal should be starting and delivering! having Smith around may make this even more clear to them. it's another way to deliver that 'No Excuses'-message to the 3 C's
> 
> anyway after seeing that Sun-Times list and after reading all the info up here - good job guys!!  - I'm fairly confident I'm gonna be one happy sailor on draft day. 3 SF's on #5-7 is a good thing for bad team like ours looking for a long term solution on that position
> 
> something completely different: in the same Sun-Times article Pavel is said to be "running the floor like a guard". that's a surprise to me. I admit not reading much nor very carefully about Pavel since we shouldn't have any interest in the guy, but I've always considered him to be a big - make that very big - stiff. is this incorrect?


I wouldnt call Pavel a stiff, but he is about 7 years away from being a force on both ends of the court. Defensively, he will change games and will do right away. On offense, think manute bol


----------



## rlucas4257

can we talk about Josh Smith a bit? Can someone tell us a little bit about his game?


----------



## BEEZ

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> can we talk about Josh Smith a bit? Can someone tell us a little bit about his game?


Body type of Tracy McGrady, uber athletic, variety of moves but he wasnt the defensive player Tmac was coming out of High School either. Can play all over the floor. He even played a few games at PF earlier in they're season when they're PF was hurt. Thats definitley not something he can do in the NBA but I was just throwing that out there for info purposes only


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>BEEZ</b>!
> 
> 
> Body type of Tracy McGrady, uber athletic, variety of moves but he wasnt the defensive player Tmac was coming out of High School either. Can play all over the floor. He even played a few games at PF earlier in they're season when they're PF was hurt. Thats definitley not something he can do in the NBA but I was just throwing that out there for info purposes only


can he, like Tmac, step out on top of the floor and run the offense in a pinch? Does he has a smooth looking J? I havent seen him so Id like to hear any thoughts. With the Bulls looking like Deng or Okafor as the only picks making sense, and with Igoudala as a trade down possibility, it would appear to me that Smith might be a wild card in the top 5. But one scary thing I hear is that he tends to get down himself. That was what did in brad sellers way back when.


----------



## BEEZ

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> can he, like Tmac, step out on top of the floor and run the offense in a pinch? Does he has a smooth looking J? I havent seen him so Id like to hear any thoughts. With the Bulls looking like Deng or Okafor as the only picks making sense, and with Igoudala as a trade down possibility, it would appear to me that Smith might be a wild card in the top 5. But one scary thing I hear is that he tends to get down himself. That was what did in brad sellers way back when.


Thats true but I dont think thats a negative, he wants to win and improve and if he doesnt feel hes doing well enough it seems that happens. I dont know if Chicago has the time to let him grow into the player that he can become but hes a very smooth player but his J is somewhat mechanical. Which can be corrected. He does seem to have the 3 point college range though


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>BEEZ</b>!
> 
> 
> Thats true but I dont think thats a negative, he wants to win and improve and if he doesnt feel hes doing well enough it seems that happens. I dont know if Chicago has the time to let him grow into the player that he can become but hes a very smooth player but his J is somewhat mechanical. Which can be corrected. He does seem to have the 3 point college range though


with our guards, i think it would be good to have a 3 who can play the point in a pinch. Could Smith play out front and direct the offense a little bit?


----------



## BEEZ

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> with our guards, i think it would be good to have a 3 who can play the point in a pinch. Could Smith play out front and direct the offense a little bit?


I personally am not confident in him in that aspect while others may disagree. He had 11 assists in a game about a week and a half to 2 weeks ago, but that doesnt necessarily mean he was running the team and setting up plays


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>BEEZ</b>!
> 
> 
> I personally am not confident in him in that aspect while others may disagree. He had 11 assists in a game about a week and a half to 2 weeks ago, but that doesnt necessarily mean he was running the team and setting up plays


thats true. Well he does seem very interesting. Considering we have a huge hole there and we probably not only need one wing guy but 2 or 3 to go with Crawford. thats how we weak we are there. If we are in the lottery in 05, like I expect, I cross my fingers for Nemanja, but that doesnt help us right away.

Is there a player you can compare Smith too?


----------



## BEEZ

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> thats true. Well he does seem very interesting. Considering we have a huge hole there and we probably not only need one wing guy but 2 or 3 to go with Crawford. thats how we weak we are there. If we are in the lottery in 05, like I expect, I cross my fingers for Nemanja, but that doesnt help us right away.
> 
> Is there a player you can compare Smith too?


Right now a more athletic John Salmons without the D. Thats not a bad thing mind you, but his ceiling is definitley McGrady like


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>BEEZ</b>!
> 
> 
> Right now a more athletic John Salmons without the D. Thats not a bad thing mind you, but his ceiling is definitley McGrady like


Beez, that is a heck of a comparison. Salmons? well the draft is like a futures market right now. no one is a finished product. if Deng and Okafor arent there, I may become a Smith fan. I would love to see the Bulls get this guy, bring him along slowly and then add Aleksandrov in 05 while Curry and Crawford grow into their games


----------



## BEEZ

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> Beez, that is a heck of a comparison. Salmons? well the draft is like a futures market right now. no one is a finished product. if Deng and Okafor arent there, I may become a Smith fan. I would love to see the Bulls get this guy, bring him along slowly and then add Aleksandrov in 05 while Curry and Crawford grow into their games


I mean I really think so, when I look around the league right now as far as body types, and abilities that is where I see him as. For instance John Salmons ceiling as a Jalen Rose clone, but hey. I like him and I like him alot. Hes going to be player in this league because he hates to fail.


----------



## rlucas4257

here is a kid for 05, since we will be there again in all liklihood. Not really pertinent for the here and now, but interesting none the less

http://www.hoopshype.com/articles/aleksandrov_peinado.htm


----------



## curry_52

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> here is a kid for 05, since we will be there again in all liklihood. Not really pertinent for the here and now, but interesting none the less
> 
> http://www.hoopshype.com/articles/aleksandrov_peinado.htm


Funny thing that its titled "The Next Milicic?" and then they start saying " X will make history". 
Mmm, what has Milicic accomplished? I could care less about the next Milicic right now. So Aleksandrov is the next bench warmer? Good for him!


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> 
> 
> Funny thing that its titled "The Next Milicic?" and then they start saying " X will make history".
> Mmm, what has Milicic accomplished? I could care less about the next Milicic right now. So Aleksandrov is the next bench warmer? Good for him!


you and I both know this kid is no bench warmer. And we both know Darko is going to be a heck of a player in time. and we both know this article was written last year.


----------



## Bigjad66

*Josh Smith Should Be Our Guy!!!*

Hey guys, I just started looking at this draft thread and I see you all have been discussing Josh Smith a little. I dont know if these have been posted already but I just did a quick google search and after looking for a while I found these two sites with some of his highlights. 

http://testing.iolani.honolulu.hi.us/iclassic/ 
http://homepage.mac.com/digitalhoops/Pages/Josh_Smith.html 


The first page has two videos showing his athletic ability in a dunk contest and another spectacular dunk in a game. The second page looks like a tape that was made by a scout. These videos shows that not only does he shoot the rock well from NBA range but he also has an amazingly quick and smooth (kinda akward looking because he is left handed) release. They show that he has a rare combination of shooting ability and super athleticism. His body also seems to be well developed for his age. Doesnt look like a skinny kid. This is also very important. Doesn't seem scared to bang down low. It looks like playing PF in high school will help him in the pro level. Shows great intensity so hopefully he wont have ECS (Eddy Curry Syndrome). Also shows great intensity and shot blocking skill on the defensive end. One drawback, this is against high school talent but you can tell that the pro potential that others have raved about is there. THESE ARE MUST SEE VIDEOS. I am officially on the JS Bandwagon. I'll accept thanks later lol.


----------



## rlucas4257

*Re: Josh Smith Should Be Our Guy!!!*



> Originally posted by <b>Bigjad66</b>!
> Hey guys, I just started looking at this draft thread and I see you all have been discussing Josh Smith a little. I dont know if these have been posted already but I just did a quick google search and after looking for a while I found these two sites with some of his highlights.
> 
> http://testing.iolani.honolulu.hi.us/iclassic/
> http://homepage.mac.com/digitalhoops/Pages/Josh_Smith.html
> 
> 
> The first page has two videos showing his athletic ability in a dunk contest and another spectacular dunk in a game. The second page looks like a tape that was made by a scout. These videos shows that not only does he shoot the rock well from NBA range but he also has an amazingly quick and smooth (kinda akward looking because he is left handed) release. They show that he has a rare combination of shooting ability and super athleticism. His body also seems to be well developed for his age. Doesnt look like a skinny kid. This is also very important. Doesn't seem scared to bang down low. It looks like playing PF in high school will help him in the pro level. Shows great intensity so hopefully he wont have ECS (Eddy Curry Syndrome). Also shows great intensity and shot blocking skill on the defensive end. One drawback, this is against high school talent but you can tell that the pro potential that others have raved about is there. THESE ARE MUST SEE VIDEOS. I am officially on the JS Bandwagon. I'll accept thanks later lol.


Awesome, Very much appreciated. Please make yourself welcome anytime on this thread. go info.


----------



## curry_52

For those willing to watch Macijauskas and Nocioni, you will be able to watch TAU vs Pamesa next saturday via NBA TV. The game will be played tomorrow, so its not LIVE!. 
Enjoy!


----------



## Bigjad66

*Re: Re: Josh Smith Should Be Our Guy!!!*



> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> Awesome, Very much appreciated. Please make yourself welcome anytime on this thread. go info.


I will. Thanks a lot. If I find anything else I'll be sure to post it.


----------



## Bigjad66

*More Josh Smith*

Here is the link to an interview with Josh Smith. 

http://www.hoopshype.com/interviews/smith_vila.htm

Best Question and Answer:

You where MVP in the adidas ABCD camp last summer. Where do you think you should be ranked right now in the class of 2004?

JS: I'm No. 3 right now. Dwight Howard is No. 1 one and Shaun Livingston is No. 2. But I don't think about it.



He knows his rank but he doesn't think about it :laugh:


----------



## rlucas4257

ok

I watched the video on him this morning. Very impressive. Obviously its HS talent so what do we really know? But just a couple of observations. 

He makes a couple of really nice handling moves at the beginning of the tape. That might mean he can play out on the floor as a point forward some. In fact, when I first saw his handle, i thought I saw Grant Hill. He looked that comfortable

He has major league springs in those legs. I mean serious athletic ability to go with super long arms

He showed he can knock down the 3, and i mean NBA 3 on one of those. But he has a Calbert Cheaney looking J which might have to be altered some in the NBA. He is a lefty which can be a good thing

He doesnt give up on D. Lebron felt like he never had to play it. This kid did, atleast in the videos I saw.

He looks like he has confidence issues at the free throw line

Can he help us next year? At this point, he probably is better then anything we have at that spot. Certainly he is moving up in my mind.


----------



## Darius Miles Davis

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> ok
> 
> I watched the video on him this morning. Very impressive. Obviously its HS talent so what do we really know? But just a couple of observations.
> 
> He makes a couple of really nice handling moves at the beginning of the tape. That might mean he can play out on the floor as a point forward some. In fact, when I first saw his handle, i thought I saw Grant Hill. He looked that comfortable
> 
> He has major league springs in those legs. I mean serious athletic ability to go with super long arms
> 
> He showed he can knock down the 3, and i mean NBA 3 on one of those. But he has a Calbert Cheaney looking J which might have to be altered some in the NBA. He is a lefty which can be a good thing
> 
> He doesnt give up on D. Lebron felt like he never had to play it. This kid did, atleast in the videos I saw.
> 
> He looks like he has confidence issues at the free throw line
> 
> Can he help us next year? At this point, he probably is better then anything we have at that spot. Certainly he is moving up in my mind.


Good news to hear that he can play. I don't really want another high schooler, but if he's the best when our pick rolls around I still think we should at least consider him.

I know you're Okafor's PR guy, but I'll still have Deng as #1 on my wish list for the Bulls. I think he fills major voids in our team right now, and with his all around game, I'm convinced he and Okafor will both be excellent pros. Okafor is my #2, and Smith could be my #3 if I get to see him and I'm impressed.


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>Darius Miles Davis</b>!
> 
> 
> Good news to hear that he can play. I don't really want another high schooler, but if he's the best when our pick rolls around I still think we should at least consider him.
> 
> I know you're Okafor's PR guy, but I'll still have Deng as #1 on my wish list for the Bulls. I think he fills major voids in our team right now, and with his all around game, I'm convinced he and Okafor will both be excellent pros. Okafor is my #2, and Smith could be my #3 if I get to see him and I'm impressed.


6501 posts

I think the top 3 is right on. Depends on what you want. I wouldnt cry if the Bulls took Deng over Okafor actually. i call them 1 and 1a with Okafor winning out by the slightest of margins. I havent been that impressed with howard, id take him off our board. Smith would probably move in as the 3rd guy


----------



## InPaxWeTrust

I would not be upset if we picked Deng over Okafor either. Deng is a pro SF right now. 6'8 220 and about as versatile as you will find. His perimeter J needs work so a good shooter from deep at SG would be a good fit alongside him. Don't expect Carmelo type scoring numbers from him right away but he will make an impact no doubt in my mind about that.


----------



## bullet

If we had #1 I'd pick Emeka and wait to see where Deng falls,and trade for him.looking at teams picking next to us makes me believe none will refuse and we could get 2 for 1.


----------



## bullet

Just visited nbadraft,Luol down to 6,Emeka at 1,and livingston at 4


----------



## InPaxWeTrust

If Deng and Livingston go pro then this draft gets a whole lot more interesting. I am very high on Deng obviously but Livingston is not far behind in terms of quality either. That kid is a player.


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>bullet</b>!
> Just visited nbadraft,Luol down to 6,Emeka at 1,and livingston at 4


It was only a matter of time before Emeka over took Howard. Howard is not a bad player, but you can get a player like him 3 times a year. Josh Smith keeps growing on me. Its not like we are winning a title in 05 so roll the dice Paxman


----------



## truebluefan

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> It was only a matter of time before Emeka over took Howard. Howard is not a bad player, but you can get a player like him 3 times a year. Josh Smith keeps growing on me. Its not like we are winning a title in 05 so roll the dice Paxman


The only way I would want smith is if we traded for a SF already. Then we could afford to bring Smith along slowly. I personally think to do otherwise and go with Smith from the get go is not the right thing to do. We need immediate improvement. Of course on the other hand I base my assumption without acually seeing him play.


----------



## curry_52

TAU defeated Pamesa Valencia 73-67 (This game is going to be available in the States next saturday on NBA TV).

Macijauskas:
22 Points
2-5 2PT FG
3-8 3PT FG
9-11 FT
5 Rebounds
4 Steals
2 TOs
3 Assists 
1 Block

Nocioni:
14 Points
4-7 2PT FG
2-8 3PT FG
5 Rebounds
3 Steals
1 TO
1 Assist
2 Blocks


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>truebluefan</b>!
> 
> 
> The only way I would want smith is if we traded for a SF already. Then we could afford to bring Smith along slowly. I personally think to do otherwise and go with Smith from the get go is not the right thing to do. We need immediate improvement. Of course on the other hand I base my assumption without acually seeing him play.


I agree, it would be nice to have an instant impact player. But there is only 1 in this crop. And if Deng comes out, only 2. So if we end up without either, who do we focus on? I think it might just be smith. Only reason, we arent going to be in the playoffs in 05 without a radical change to this roster, ie a Jason Kidd like addition for example. We are imbarking on a new rebuilding process, not finishing one. maybe getting smith can be a long range answer to the puzzle? I dont know. but i agree, id like to sit him for a year behind a Kukoc or someone and let him learn


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> TAU defeated Pamesa Valencia 73-67 (This game is going to be available in the States next saturday on NBA TV).
> 
> Macijauskas:
> 22 Points
> 2-5 2PT FG
> 3-8 3PT FG
> 9-11 FT
> 5 Rebounds
> 4 Steals
> 2 TOs
> 3 Assists
> 1 Block
> 
> Nocioni:
> 14 Points
> 4-7 2PT FG
> 2-8 3PT FG
> 5 Rebounds
> 3 Steals
> 1 TO
> 1 Assist


Id split the MLE between the 2 of them. We could use either guy
2 Blocks


----------



## rlucas4257

http://nbadraft.net/profiles/joshsmith.asp


----------



## rlucas4257

Im trying to consolidate some data into the draft thread so we can go back and reference it. These are all active threads so no reason to read them

http://www.basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=77755&forumid=27

http://www.basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=77650&forumid=27

http://www.basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=77755&forumid=27


----------



## Lusty RaRue

FWIW:
Danny Granger 

is a choice of radio shock/shlock jock Mike North who mentioned his name a few weeks back. The stat line is too good to disregard. I know nothing about his game.

http://www.abqtrib.com/archives/sports03/032003_sports_granger.shtml

http://www.abqtrib.com/archives/sports03/122003_sports_granger.shtml

P.S.: I think it's strange that http://nbadraft.net doesn't even list Francisco Garcia or
Channing Frye.


----------



## Benny the Bull

I finally watched the UConn v ND game. UConn lost, but Okafor again was very good.

His shotblocking is amazing. He seems to have the athletic ability to hang in the air, and the judgment to know when to elevate, which just makes in a monster.

Another thing that may or may not have been mentioned is that he has very good hands. Catches most things thrown to him.

I got to see his post game more in this game. It's better than I thought, and a few times he went with the left hand. He has the strength to get into position easily in college. He may not have that advantage in the NBA.

Question I'll throw out. How would Okafor's post game at the moment compare to Elton Brand's in his first season in the NBA?


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>Benny the Bull</b>!
> I finally watched the UConn v ND game. UConn lost, but Okafor again was very good.
> 
> His shotblocking is amazing. He seems to have the athletic ability to hang in the air, and the judgment to know when to elevate, which just makes in a monster.
> 
> Another thing that may or may not have been mentioned is that he has very good hands. Catches most things thrown to him.
> 
> I got to see his post game more in this game. It's better than I thought, and a few times he went with the left hand. He has the strength to get into position easily in college. He may not have that advantage in the NBA.
> 
> Question I'll throw out. How would Okafor's post game at the moment compare to Elton Brand's in his first season in the NBA?


about the same I feel. Brand had a little more range. Okafor has a little more oomph in those legs. I think Emeka will have more impact as a rookie on W/Ls then Elton did and will eventually emerge as the better player. 3 years ago, he had zero offense, now he is getting it. projecting that out, I can see a mini Drob in 2 or 3 years. He has just unreal skills on the defensive side of the floor


----------



## bullet

Sharunas Yaskivicious led Maccabi T.A to a win over C.S.K.A in Moskow with 25 points - 5 3p hits! 6 as

Nikola voycic 17 p and 11 r


----------



## rlucas4257

7000 hits, Now I want 10x more then that before draft day!


----------



## cheezdoodle

> Originally posted by <b>Lusty RaRue</b>!
> FWIW:
> Danny Granger
> 
> is a choice of radio shock/shlock jock Mike North who mentioned his name a few weeks back. The stat line is too good to disregard. I know nothing about his game.
> 
> http://www.abqtrib.com/archives/sports03/032003_sports_granger.shtml
> 
> http://www.abqtrib.com/archives/sports03/122003_sports_granger.shtml
> 
> P.S.: I think it's strange that http://nbadraft.net doesn't even list Francisco Garcia or
> Channing Frye.


Granger is one of my favorite NCAA players. He gets absolutely no hype, but I look at him as a more developed, better shooting version of Ronald Dupree. He probably won't come out this year, but I expect him to work his way into the late first round next year. Garcia I also don't understand why he's not getting any hype. I honestly can't think of a more complete shooting guard prospect then him right now. People will be sleeping on him because of his lack of bulk, but I have a feeling he'll be a very special player in the NBA.


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>cheezdoodle</b>!
> 
> 
> Granger is one of my favorite NCAA players. He gets absolutely no hype, but I look at him as a more developed, better shooting version of Ronald Dupree. He probably won't come out this year, but I expect him to work his way into the late first round next year. Garcia I also don't understand why he's not getting any hype. I honestly can't think of a more complete shooting guard prospect then him right now. People will be sleeping on him because of his lack of bulk, but I have a feeling he'll be a very special player in the NBA.


Pitino kids just dont make it in the pros very much. Only Antoine Walker has really become a star. And even then he has a reputation as a bit of a gunner. I personally would stay away from a Pitino coached kid. Even Gaines is looking like a monumental flop


----------



## cheezdoodle

Couple of guys you are forgetting about: Jamal Mashburn, Jamal Magloire, Derek Anderson, Ron Mercer, Tony Delk. 

Pitino does very well with the swingmen. Garcia is going to be an awesome player in the pros. I'll tell you when they are going to be on TV next, if you liked Monya you are going to love Garcia. He just does it all. 

I think it's still way too early to judge Gaines. He hasn't been given much of a chance to play yet.


----------



## cheezdoodle

Here's a scouting report I wrote on Garcia. The site should be up sometime this weekend, I'll give you guys a heads up when it is.

Name: Francisco Garcia DOB: 12/31/81 
Height: 6'8" Weight: 190 pounds 
College: Louisville Year: Sophomore 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
High School: Winchendon Prep School, Mass. 
Hometown: Bronx, NY via the Dominican Repub. 
Current Position: SF 
Expected Position: SG 
Other Positions: SG/SF (point forward role) 
Profile Written By: Jonathan Givony 

Strenghts:

Francisco Garcia is an extremely versatile player, he plays 3 positions for Louisville, the 1,2 and 3. He's silky smooth and extremely confident. Has a passion and unique flair to his game and is extremely fun to watch. Very athletic, has a quick first step and loves to put the ball on the floor, usually without getting called for an offensive foul. A lights out shooter, either stationary or off the dribble. Has great range on his shot and an ultra quick release, arguably one of the best shooters in the NCAA. Moves very well off the ball too, comes off screens and is an excellent free throw shooter. A very intelligent player, understands the game and acts as a floor general on the court. Very vocal on both sides of the court, a natural leader. A fearless competitor, not afraid to hit the floor to come up with loose balls. , never backs down from a challenge, plays with an incredible amount of heart. Fantastic handles for a player his size, dribbles extremely well with both hands and can take the ball either left or right. Drives in and out of traffic like a pro. Will often bring the ball up the floor for Louisville and set up the offense. Great court vision, 2nd in conference USA in assists. Has point guard skills in a 6-8 body. Holds the school record for assists in one game, with 15. Good wingspan and uses it well, blocks a lot of shots and gets in the passing lanes for steals. Has good timing when going up for blocks. Very coachable. A team player. Not afraid to take big shots. Huge heart, that can't be stressed enough. Just a very special player and person. 

Weaknesses:

Garcia's main deficiency is his weight. At under 200 pounds, he is going to have a hard time in the NBA until he gains some strength. His frame is rail thin, and exactly how much stronger he can get is still not known. Garcia tends to gamble on defense, and this sometimes hurts his team's defense. He still has a ways to go to become an adequate NBA defender, especially with his weight. Fatigue has been a problem for him throughout his college career, although he has gotten much better at that this year. Since he is 22, NBA scouts might wonder exactly how much upside he has. Extremely emotional, this could be a good or a bad thing depending on who you ask. 

Competition:

Earlier in the year, Garcia showed an inner strength that really proved what kind of a person he is. His younger brother, Hector was murdered in his hometown of the Bronx. Less then 48 hours later, Garcia put that behind him for 40 minutes and had one of his best games in his college career, scoring 24 points (4-4 from the line in the last 35 seconds) to secure a huge win over Seton Hall. Garcia was given the option of not playing by coach Pitino but he decided to take out his anguish on the basketball court. Three days later, after attending his brother's funeral, he did the same thing against #1 ranked Florida, again having a big game (21 points). Garcia had a hard time hiding his emotions as the final buzzer sounded and later told the media that he has decided to dedicate this season and his entire career to his brother Hector. 

Represented his country last summer (2003) in the Pan American Games in the Dominican Republic. Had 14 points and 4 steals vs. Brazil and helped his team win a Silver medal. 

Outlook:

Garcia is not being talked about at all by experts for this upcoming draft. No one really expected Louisville to do this well this year, and most people thought Garcia would bulk up and come out next year. That is still very much a possibility, but with the kind of year he is having, and at his age (22) he might not have much to gain by coming back for another season, as long as he is pegged as a first rounder like he deserves to be. Are there really two or three better Shooting Guard prospects in this draft? I think the answer to that is no. Garcia has made no secret about his NBA aspirations, saying that it is his number one goal in life and stating that getting his mother out of the Bronx as a big reason for that. I hate to bring up what happened to his brother earlier in the year, but that could affect whether or not he decides to come out. More crucial then anything else though, will be the advice he receives from Coach Pitino, who has done a magnificent job at delivering his players to the pros in perfect timing (see Antoine Walker, Ron Mercer and Jamaal Mashburn from Kentucky as great examples of that). Pitino was the General Manager for the Boston Celtics and still has a lot of pull in the NBA. Pitino's health issues could also play a big role in whether he decides to come out. As of right now it is not known what his status is for next year. If Pitino is gone, Garcia probably will too. Sebastian Telfair, who is arguably the number 1 point guard prospect in High School and also a first round candidate. Telfair is committed to Louisville. 

Comments:

In my opinion, Francisco Garcia will have a long and excellent NBA career. Pure Shooting Guards are a dying breed in today's NBA, and if he can put on weight he will be an NBA starter for years to come. He has all the tools and especially the personality to make a successful transition to the NBA; it's all a matter of landing in the right situation for him. It's true that he needs to put on some weight, but the average NBA shooting guard isn't that much heavier then 200 pounds. With that said, he seems like the kind of player that will slip in the draft, for no apparent reason other then the fact that he doesn't as have much upside as some of the other prospects and he can't touch the top of the backboard. 

Best Case Scenario: Reggie Miller
Worst Case Scenario: Tayshaun Prince

-Jonathan Givony


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>cheezdoodle</b>!
> Here's a scouting report I wrote on Garcia. The site should be up sometime this weekend, I'll give you guys a heads up when it is.
> 
> Name: Francisco Garcia DOB: 12/31/81
> Height: 6'8" Weight: 190 pounds
> College: Louisville Year: Sophomore
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> High School: Winchendon Prep School, Mass.
> Hometown: Bronx, NY via the Dominican Repub.
> Current Position: SF
> Expected Position: SG
> Other Positions: SG/SF (point forward role)
> Profile Written By: Jonathan Givony
> 
> Strenghts:
> 
> Francisco Garcia is an extremely versatile player, he plays 3 positions for Louisville, the 1,2 and 3. He's silky smooth and extremely confident. Has a passion and unique flair to his game and is extremely fun to watch. Very athletic, has a quick first step and loves to put the ball on the floor, usually without getting called for an offensive foul. A lights out shooter, either stationary or off the dribble. Has great range on his shot and an ultra quick release, arguably one of the best shooters in the NCAA. Moves very well off the ball too, comes off screens and is an excellent free throw shooter. A very intelligent player, understands the game and acts as a floor general on the court. Very vocal on both sides of the court, a natural leader. A fearless competitor, not afraid to hit the floor to come up with loose balls. , never backs down from a challenge, plays with an incredible amount of heart. Fantastic handles for a player his size, dribbles extremely well with both hands and can take the ball either left or right. Drives in and out of traffic like a pro. Will often bring the ball up the floor for Louisville and set up the offense. Great court vision, 2nd in conference USA in assists. Has point guard skills in a 6-8 body. Holds the school record for assists in one game, with 15. Good wingspan and uses it well, blocks a lot of shots and gets in the passing lanes for steals. Has good timing when going up for blocks. Very coachable. A team player. Not afraid to take big shots. Huge heart, that can't be stressed enough. Just a very special player and person.
> 
> Weaknesses:
> 
> Garcia's main deficiency is his weight. At under 200 pounds, he is going to have a hard time in the NBA until he gains some strength. His frame is rail thin, and exactly how much stronger he can get is still not known. Garcia tends to gamble on defense, and this sometimes hurts his team's defense. He still has a ways to go to become an adequate NBA defender, especially with his weight. Fatigue has been a problem for him throughout his college career, although he has gotten much better at that this year. Since he is 22, NBA scouts might wonder exactly how much upside he has. Extremely emotional, this could be a good or a bad thing depending on who you ask.
> 
> Competition:
> 
> Earlier in the year, Garcia showed an inner strength that really proved what kind of a person he is. His younger brother, Hector was murdered in his hometown of the Bronx. Less then 48 hours later, Garcia put that behind him for 40 minutes and had one of his best games in his college career, scoring 24 points (4-4 from the line in the last 35 seconds) to secure a huge win over Seton Hall. Garcia was given the option of not playing by coach Pitino but he decided to take out his anguish on the basketball court. Three days later, after attending his brother's funeral, he did the same thing against #1 ranked Florida, again having a big game (21 points). Garcia had a hard time hiding his emotions as the final buzzer sounded and later told the media that he has decided to dedicate this season and his entire career to his brother Hector.
> 
> Represented his country last summer (2003) in the Pan American Games in the Dominican Republic. Had 14 points and 4 steals vs. Brazil and helped his team win a Silver medal.
> 
> Outlook:
> 
> Garcia is not being talked about at all by experts for this upcoming draft. No one really expected Louisville to do this well this year, and most people thought Garcia would bulk up and come out next year. That is still very much a possibility, but with the kind of year he is having, and at his age (22) he might not have much to gain by coming back for another season, as long as he is pegged as a first rounder like he deserves to be. Are there really two or three better Shooting Guard prospects in this draft? I think the answer to that is no. Garcia has made no secret about his NBA aspirations, saying that it is his number one goal in life and stating that getting his mother out of the Bronx as a big reason for that. I hate to bring up what happened to his brother earlier in the year, but that could affect whether or not he decides to come out. More crucial then anything else though, will be the advice he receives from Coach Pitino, who has done a magnificent job at delivering his players to the pros in perfect timing (see Antoine Walker, Ron Mercer and Jamaal Mashburn from Kentucky as great examples of that). Pitino was the General Manager for the Boston Celtics and still has a lot of pull in the NBA. Pitino's health issues could also play a big role in whether he decides to come out. As of right now it is not known what his status is for next year. If Pitino is gone, Garcia probably will too. Sebastian Telfair, who is arguably the number 1 point guard prospect in High School and also a first round candidate. Telfair is committed to Louisville.
> 
> Comments:
> 
> In my opinion, Francisco Garcia will have a long and excellent NBA career. Pure Shooting Guards are a dying breed in today's NBA, and if he can put on weight he will be an NBA starter for years to come. He has all the tools and especially the personality to make a successful transition to the NBA; it's all a matter of landing in the right situation for him. It's true that he needs to put on some weight, but the average NBA shooting guard isn't that much heavier then 200 pounds. With that said, he seems like the kind of player that will slip in the draft, for no apparent reason other then the fact that he doesn't as have much upside as some of the other prospects and he can't touch the top of the backboard.
> 
> Best Case Scenario: Reggie Miller
> Worst Case Scenario: Tayshaun Prince
> 
> -Jonathan Givony


I just dont like Rick Pitino kids in the NBA. Mashburn and Walker are good players. but have always been accused of being undisciplined. We know Mercer was. Delk is ok, but he has the same problem. It just goes down the list. Pitinio puts in a system that is shoot the first shot you got, particularly if its a 3. Its a nice system for college to win games. but it creates bad habits. Id stay away from Louisville kids for awhile


----------



## Robert23

> Originally posted by <b>cheezdoodle</b>!
> People will be sleeping on him because of his lack of bulk, but I have a feeling he'll be a very special player in the NBA.


Man if that happens Bradley's coach Jim Les is going have alot of questions to answer. Alot of people weren't happy he was picked as head coach. Plus no one has been too happy with the teams performance and some of his decision. But if Granger makes it to the NBA I could see Jim Les getting forced out.


----------



## curry_52

Drejer News:
He turned down an offer from Barcelona (Spain). He said he is happy in Florida and is willing to end the season right there. He understands that Barca has many injured players, but thats not enough.


----------



## Darius Miles Davis

Iguodala is blowing me away today. He looks fantastic today against UCLA, at least in the first half. He's played great defense, has had a nice crossover to a 19ft jumper (very Crawfordesque). He also has played great passing lane defenses and has boarded like a madman. I think he'll be worthy of a top 7 pick this year. If he's the only available option when our pick comes up, we're still in good shape.


----------



## Bulls42

*Haven't seen that jumper enough to warrant #7 pick*

Sure you see him on ESPN dunking in highlights, but then you check the box score and he had 8 points in the game. Maybe he has hit a couple J's in the game, but he is only 6'6, and doesn't hit that J enough.


----------



## bullet

> Originally posted by <b>Darius Miles Davis</b>!
> Iguodala is blowing me away today. He looks fantastic today against UCLA, at least in the first half. He's played great defense, has had a nice crossover to a 19ft jumper (very Crawfordesque). He also has played great passing lane defenses and has boarded like a madman. I think he'll be worthy of a top 7 pick this year. If he's the only available option when our pick comes up, we're still in good shape.


The Q is is he worth top 3 (as we r on our way there)?

if no Okafur and no Deng,I'd go for him,he does everything well except shoot the J,and he's getting better there too.
he's an unbelievable athlete!!!!!


----------



## rlucas4257

Josh Smith if we cant get our hands on Emeka or Luol

Sato had a rough shooting day today against UMass. 2-12. But what a great floor game. Even when he misses Js, it looks like they are going in. He obviously can shoot off the dribble, plays smart. had a handful of assts and 11 bds


----------



## cheezdoodle

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> Josh Smith if we cant get our hands on Emeka or Luol
> 
> Sato had a rough shooting day today against UMass. 2-12. But what a great floor game. Even when he misses Js, it looks like they are going in. He obviously can shoot off the dribble, plays smart. had a handful of assts and 11 bds


Can someone explain to me what's the big deal about Sato?

He doesn't slash, he's not a good outside shooter, his defense is way overrated, he doesn't pass and he can't even put up decent numbers on a bad team in a bad conference. What exactly does everyone see in this kid? By reading draftnet's scouting report on him you would think that he's the second coming of Jesus Christ or something.


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>cheezdoodle</b>!
> 
> 
> Can someone explain to me what's the big deal about Sato?
> 
> He doesn't slash, he's not a good outside shooter, his defense is way overrated, he doesn't pass and he can't even put up decent numbers on a bad team in a bad conference. What exactly does everyone see in this kid? By reading draftnet's scouting report on him you would think that he's the second coming of Jesus Christ or something.


He has a pro body. He is a very good outside shooter and can shoot off the dribble as well off the pass. he is strong and can back down smaller guards, he is very atheletic, he defends very well and he hustles. And the big thing with him is that he is this good already with only 5 years of organized basketball. That means he has huge upside. No, he isnt Jesus Christ. But he is a mid first round pick at worst


----------



## thunderspirit

about Sato: what rlucas said. he's Desmond Mason right now, with the potential to become Ray Allen with Mason's defensive intensity. sign me up.


----------



## bullet

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> He has a pro body. He is a very good outside shooter and can shoot off the dribble as well off the pass. he is strong and can back down smaller guards, he is very atheletic, he defends very well and he hustles. And the big thing with him is that he is this good already with only 5 years of organized basketball. That means he has huge upside. No, he isnt Jesus Christ. But he is a mid first round pick at worst


I'm with rlucas!

actually I think he is underrated(2nd round prediction) and if he's there we should take him.
an nba ready body.his defense is not overrated,he's a very good man to man defender!


----------



## BEEZ

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> He has a pro body. He is a very good outside shooter and can shoot off the dribble as well off the pass. he is strong and can back down smaller guards, he is very atheletic, he defends very well and he hustles. And the big thing with him is that he is this good already with only 5 years of organized basketball. That means he has huge upside. No, he isnt Jesus Christ. But he is a mid first round pick at worst


I have been a Sato fan in the past. I do feel that him being a mid first round pick at worst is not that valid. I can name 22 players that are better than him in next years draft along with those with potential


----------



## curry_52

Pavel Update (They lost 90-85):
16 Minutes
9 Points
4-4 FG
1-2 FT
3 Rebounds (1 Off)
0 Assists
1 Block
1 TO
1 Steal


----------



## curry_52

TAU won again.

Nocioni:
29 Minutes
13 Points
3/8 2PT FG
2/4 3PT FG
1/2 FT
12 Rebounds
4 Assists
4 TOs
1 Block


Macijauskas:
31 Minutes
21 Points
4/5 2PT FG
2/5 3PT FG
7/7 FT
4 Rebounds (2 Off)
1 Steal
1 TO
1 Block


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>BEEZ</b>!
> 
> 
> I have been a Sato fan in the past. I do feel that him being a mid first round pick at worst is not that valid. I can name 22 players that are better than him in next years draft along with those with potential


Im listening


----------



## Colombian BULL Fan

*Josh Smith*

Just found something about Josh Smith, maybe somebody interested??

http://www.zonabasket.com/hospitalet/videos.php

After I watched it..... this kid...


----------



## rlucas4257

Josh Smith is endearing himself more to me everyday


----------



## rlucas4257

Musberger reported on the uconn game today that an NBA GM told him that Deng was going to enter this draft and would be a certain top 3 pick. Vitale went nuts. He wasnt happy to hear that


----------



## rlucas4257

i read on realgm that GS is looking at some kid name Kohlmeier or something? He is 7-2. 250ish. 19 years old. Maybe moving up. I had heard about some kid in Austria but this is the first time I heard an NBA team actually go and take an extensive look on him. Maybe Bullet, Cheeze or Curry could clue us into him


----------



## Colombian BULL Fan

rlucas, who would you take between Deng and Smith???

I´d go with Smith, though.

Deng could be a very solid player, but Smith... I´ve seen a couple of videos of him and WOW...., but I don´t think many of us would take another HS kid, Pax neither, but I seriusly think he is worth the pick.


----------



## cheezdoodle

I don't know too much about him Rlucas, all I know is that he opened some eyes on at the Bigman camp in Treviso last summer. 

His name is spelled Martin Kohlmaier and he plays for Kapfenberg in Austria (their nickname is also the Bulls). Chris Mullin went to scout him about 3 weeks ago.

He is putting up 8 points and 4 rebounds per game in 27 minutes in the ULEB cup. Pretty raw kid it seems like. I don't know why Mullin decided he needs to tell the whole world he is scouting him.


----------



## bullet

sorry rlucas,1st time i hear about him...


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>cheezdoodle</b>!
> I don't know too much about him Rlucas, all I know is that he opened some eyes on at the Bigman camp in Treviso last summer.
> 
> His name is spelled Martin Kohlmaier and he plays for Kapfenberg in Austria (their nickname is also the Bulls). Chris Mullin went to scout him about 3 weeks ago.
> 
> He is putting up 8 points and 4 rebounds per game in 27 minutes in the ULEB cup. Pretty raw kid it seems like. I don't know why Mullin decided he needs to tell the whole world he is scouting him.



very interesting cheeze. thanks for the update. When is draftcity going to be ready to go? I went there yesterday and only saw an insignia?


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>Colombian BULL Fan</b>!
> rlucas, who would you take between Deng and Smith???
> 
> I´d go with Smith, though.
> 
> Deng could be a very solid player, but Smith... I´ve seen a couple of videos of him and WOW...., but I don´t think many of us would take another HS kid, Pax neither, but I seriusly think he is worth the pick.


Columbian, let me be the first to welcome you to the board!

Right now, between Deng and Smith? Close call. Real close call. The last couple of weeks I have said its Okafor or Deng. But I watched some tape on Smith yesterday and he has a real chance at stardom. I will shock the board and the world and say Smith might actually be the best fit for the Bulls. I hope Pax hasnt closed the door on HS kids, cause this kid actually appears to be worth it. Thanks for the video


----------



## rlucas4257

Interesting article in Insider today about the chinese invasion that is about to come. Yi Jianlian was mentioned. Others were as well. Ronzone of the Pistons is there in full force.


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> Pavel Update (They lost 90-85):
> 16 Minutes
> 9 Points
> 4-4 FG
> 1-2 FT
> 3 Rebounds (1 Off)
> 0 Assists
> 1 Block
> 1 TO
> 1 Steal


He was particularly impressive in this game


----------



## Showtyme

Has anyone mentioned Ryan Gomes?

I think if we have a top 3 pick, trading it down to Portland for their pick and Memphis' pick (probably around 15 and 18 or so), in addition to swapping ERob for Ruben + stuff? I think they'd do it to infuse some more youth and cheaper contracts, and ERob is the kind of guy that would fit in up there. I know a lot of us aren't huge R-Patt fans, but he's a defensive force that might actually flourish in this kind of environment. At the very least, he's a very reliable swingman, 28 years old, shoots a high percentage on low attempts (we like we like), grabbing 1.3 steals in only 24 mpg (we like we like).

Portland would do this to get a shot at either Okafor or Deng, and if we land a spot more like 5th, Ben Gordon. They would LOVE a guy like Gordon in Portland... he'd be a perfect fit. Incredibly quick, up-tempo PG with defense, scoring, and basketball smarts. They'd also like Jameer, or Shaun Livingston.

We could then look at Gomes (the best-kept secret in college basketball, incredible player) with our lower pick, and maybe grab a guy like Warrick or Childress with our higher pick. 

We could also afford to take a gamble on a guy like Perovic, if he's available.

I'm just opening up the floor for more options as far as draft picks. I know this thread is devoted to the "lottery", but I think a good GM would keep his eyes open for the full range of talent in this draft. Every year we've cried out to "trade down, trade down!", but I don't remember the last time it's ever happened in Chicago.

There's a first time for almost everything.


----------



## truebluefan

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> Musberger reported on the uconn game today that an NBA GM told him that Deng was going to enter this draft and would be a certain top 3 pick. Vitale went nuts. He wasnt happy to hear that


Could be good news for us.


----------



## curry_52

Gomes had a very good game against Okafor and the Huskies.


----------



## truebluefan

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> Interesting article in Insider today about the chinese invasion that is about to come. Yi Jianlian was mentioned. Others were as well. Ronzone of the Pistons is there in full force.


You metioned insider article, what about, Andris Biedrins? Said he was at all-star game with his family and agent. 7-0 Kirilenko!! But he is 18 years old.


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>truebluefan</b>!
> 
> 
> You metioned insider article, what about, Andris Biedrins? Said he was at all-star game with his family and agent. 7-0 Kirilenko!! But he is 18 years old.


I have seen Biedrins live on a snowy night late last year. He is ok. But he is a serious project. Kirilenko is a possibility for him down the road, but we are talking a minimum of 5 years. 

Article about China in Insider today was very good. Detroit Scout Tony Ronzone, WHO SHOULD HAVE BEEN OUR GM, is no renting a home in China where he can scout players. There is 250 million registered people playing basketball in China. That is more then the total amount of people in the US. There are apparently 100, GET THIS, 7 foot kids with skills between the age of 13-17. Thats nuts. He talks about Yi Jianlian, whom i saw last year. this kid was featured in a SI article not long ago. He has unreal skills. A KG type. In this draft, he talks about 2 kids. One guy whom I have never heard of, who is Majerle type and Mo Ke. Mo Ke is someone I have thought about for the Bulls in the second round. well rounded 6-10-7 foot player with nice range and lots of energy. Detroit and Dallas have fulltime Asian scouts. looks like the Bulls have to get there now.


----------



## rlucas4257

can someone link me to the Biedrins story of the allstar game? I cant find it on Insider


----------



## cheezdoodle

Rlucas,

the site will be up on Friday at the latest I'm told.


----------



## Colombian BULL Fan

> Originally posted by <b>cheezdoodle</b>!
> Hey Rlucas,
> 
> the site will be up on Friday at the latest I'm told. Here is something to hold you guys over in the meantime:
> 
> http://www.draftcity.com/profiles/joshsmith.htm


Very complete....

This kid has a bright future. :yes: No doubt.

I´d like us to draft him, only if we get another SF who already plays in the NBA (Manu??) so that he can come from the bench, and wouldn´t have the BIG responsability of being ths starting SF.

And we could have a nice SF rotation.

This move can wake up Eddy and Tyson, they can figure out that they are no longer baby bulls, Smith would be the only "baby bull".


----------



## curry_52

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> I have seen Biedrins live on a snowy night late last year. He is ok. But he is a serious project. Kirilenko is a possibility for him down the road, but we are talking a minimum of 5 years.
> 
> Article about China in Insider today was very good. Detroit Scout Tony Ronzone, WHO SHOULD HAVE BEEN OUR GM, is no renting a home in China where he can scout players. There is 250 million registered people playing basketball in China. That is more then the total amount of people in the US. There are apparently 100, GET THIS, 7 foot kids with skills between the age of 13-17. Thats nuts. He talks about Yi Jianlian, whom i saw last year. this kid was featured in a SI article not long ago. He has unreal skills. A KG type. In this draft, he talks about 2 kids. One guy whom I have never heard of, who is Majerle type and Mo Ke. Mo Ke is someone I have thought about for the Bulls in the second round. well rounded 6-10-7 foot player with nice range and lots of energy. Detroit and Dallas have fulltime Asian scouts. looks like the Bulls have to get there now.


OK, he can scout all he wants. But how is he going to get the Next "Made In China" Garnett? Last time I checked the Pistons were pretty good. And we are getting to a point where there are less and less hidden gems. He may discover Mao, but the League will know about him the next day. Ok, let him do the work for the other teams.


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> 
> 
> OK, he can scout all he wants. But how is he going to get the Next "Made In China" Garnett? Last time I checked the Pistons were pretty good. And we are getting to a point where there are less and less hidden gems. He may discover Mao, but the League will know about him the next day. Ok, let him do the work for the other teams.


How is he going to do the work for the other teams? is he going to tell everyone what he is thinking? He discovered Okur a couple of years back in a remote region of Turkey. So I am not sure I see your logic. The point is, Detroit is positioning themselves in China. So are the Mavs. No one really is, Maybe Houston, but really no one else. They are going to know more then anyone else. And when the end of the first round and second round comes, they are going to pick off the Mo Kes of the world while teams like the Bulls take Tommy Smith and Khalid el Amins of the world.


----------



## curry_52

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> How is he going to do the work for the other teams? is he going to tell everyone what he is thinking? He discovered Okur a couple of years back in a remote region of Turkey. So I am not sure I see your logic. The point is, Detroit is positioning themselves in China. So are the Mavs. No one really is, Maybe Houston, but really no one else. They are going to know more then anyone else. And when the end of the first round and second round comes, they are going to pick off the Mo Kes of the world while teams like the Bulls take Tommy Smith and Khalid el Amins of the world.


I dont agree. First because this chinese guys will have people like SFX representing them, so they wont go unnoticed. And they wont come to the league after the 23 year mark (or enter the league as FAs). You can always have Pre-Draft workouts, scout a couple of games, watch tapes, etc. You dont have to be in China 24x7 to know if a guy has talent or not. Maybe Ronzone has a better eye than Paxson, but thats not the point here.
And first round means guaranteed contracts, so you wont see many of them going in chinese people direction, unless they are something close to Yao. And more and more teams are willing to take a shot at the next Yao, the next Dirk, etc with their second rounders, so Detroit wont have their way. They will either pick late in the first or second, so dont worry about them becoming the Yankees of the NBA.


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>Colombian BULL Fan</b>!
> 
> 
> Very complete....
> 
> This kid has a bright future. :yes: No doubt.
> 
> I´d like us to draft him, only if we get another SF who already plays in the NBA (Manu??) so that he can come from the bench, and wouldn´t have the BIG responsability of being ths starting SF.
> 
> And we could have a nice SF rotation.
> 
> This move can wake up Eddy and Tyson, they can figure out that they are no longer baby bulls, Smith would be the only "baby bull".


Josh Smith is officially on my wish list as well


----------



## curry_52

Drejer may be joining Barcelona in the next 2-3 days, stay tuned!


----------



## smARTmouf

if we can't get okafor...we must trade our high lottery pick for two 1st round picks..


my wish list...
1...okafor
or
2...andre iguodala AND ivan chiriaev

2nd round
3....luke jackson
4...romain sato
5...mo ke


i would stick to every seat i sit on for the rest of my life


----------



## rlucas4257

i like the second round picks

Here is the rlucas shocker. My wish list with our first round pick

Josh Smith
Emeka Okafor
Luol Deng


----------



## curry_52

As I have anticipated some days ago, Drejer joins Barcelona:

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=1737988

Official!


----------



## rlucas4257

great call Curry. I hadnt heard that from my sources anywhere in Europe so good call. makes you wonder what Drejer is thinking? I bet Cheeze isnt happy right now


----------



## Colombian BULL Fan

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> i like the second round picks
> 
> Here is the rlucas shocker. My wish list with our first round pick
> 
> Josh Smith
> Emeka Okafor
> Luol Deng


:yes: :clap:


----------



## cheezdoodle

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> great call Curry. I hadnt heard that from my sources anywhere in Europe so good call. makes you wonder what Drejer is thinking? I bet Cheeze isnt happy right now


You bet. Check out the thread on the draft board for the reasons he decided to leave. This has been brewing for a while but I never thought Drejer would be stupid enough to actually do it. I am very disappointed in him to say the least.


----------



## curry_52

Euroleague defending champs FC Barcelona announced on Wednesday the signing of Danish forward Christian Drejer (208, 22) until the end of season 2004-05. The contract establishes also the possibility to extend the agreement for two more seasons as well as the chance for the player to leave the club, only in case that he signs for an NBA team. Drejer, nicknamed "The Big Dane", was playing his second year at the Florida University where last season he averaged 3.6 points and 1.6 rebound sper game. In the 2001-02 season, Drejer averaged 31.6 points per game in the Danish League with SISU Kopenhagen. Drejer is expected to arrive in Barcelona on Thursday and he will practice with the team immediately after his arrival.


----------



## curry_52

Macijauskas @ Euroleague:
32 Minutes
29 Points
12/15 2PT FG
1/4 3PT FG
2/3 FT 
1 Rebound
1 Steal
2 TOs
2 Assists
1 Block


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> Macijauskas @ Euroleague:
> 32 Minutes
> 29 Points
> 12/15 2PT FG
> 1/4 3PT FG
> 2/3 FT
> 1 Rebound
> 1 Steal
> 2 TOs
> 2 Assists
> 1 Block


tape of this game should be hitting my doorstep tomorrow. Wowsers


----------



## Showtyme

Here's the bottom line with the lottery pick, as I've started to think more about our team.

Luol Deng needs to be who we come away with. It MUST be Deng. We should be able to get him no matter what, because a lot of Duke people have been saying all along that his intention is to be one and done, and the way the draft is shaping up right now, Deng has kind of fallen off the chart a little. He is still a huge talent, but I honestly think Duke has kind of dragged down his credibility. Shelden Williams has more of a role than Deng, and J.J. Redick carries most of the scoring. Deng doesn't get to show off all of his stuff, but he can't possibly consider staying in school another year just to show that he's "the man". People recognize his talent as a top 5 pick; that should be enough for him to come out.

But it's not enough for any team to pick him over Okafor, Dwight Howard, Josh Smith, or Pavel. And maybe even Shaun Livingston belongs in that upper tier.

That means that the Bulls have a chance to get him if they are in the top 3 by trading down (Chicago trades their #2 pick, the rights to Dwight Howard, to Phoenix for the rights to Luol Deng and their 2nd round selection, Matt Freije).

And if the Bulls get screwed and end up with the #5 pick, they will be exactly in position to nab Deng.

*Why does it have to be Deng? *

Simply this: we are in desperate need of a superstar. We need a guy that can come in and score, create for the team, play defense and rebound, and just step up to BE THE MAN. 

Curry will always be the focal point of the offense, but consider the Lakers: it's not Shaq that they go to in the 4th quarter. He's the guy that puts the Lakers up 10 going into the 4th, the true "bread-and-butter", but not a 4th quarter come-from-behind kind of guy, not the kind of guy that sparks a 12-1 run with a steal or a pair of 3's.

And unfortunately, as I examine Jamal Crawford, that's not really him either. He's a great player, and will develop into one of the most effective guys at his position, maybe even be an All-Star. But I'd say his career is looking like an Eddie Jones talent: recognized by all, a weapon for any team to have on their side, but not the star that can carry a team.

We need that guy. We need to buy him somehow, or we need to grow him. With a high lottery pick, and with the polish that Deng has shown in his game, I think we should try to grow him.

Hinrich, Crawford, Chandler and Curry can take this team to the playoffs next year. There's no doubt. But I don't think they can win it all, by themselves.

*Why is the answer not Emeka Okafor?*

It might be, but it's backsliding too much to take Okafor and build around him. What we'd be taking in Okafor is what we'd want from Chandler, and that would mean manufacturing a trade involving one of them, a trade that probably wouldn't bring us back a superstar caliber SF. 

*Why not Josh Smith?*

Josh Smith has tantalizing potential, but he's not going to make an immediate NBA-level impact. He's got an NBA body, and will be athletic enough to be creative, but I think he's got the potential of Darius Miles. With the right coaching, in the right system, Smith will flourish into a superstar, but that's too many intangibles and the Bulls aren't great at that kind of sensitive player development.

We need a guy that can just come, be coached, work on his game with solid work ethic, and contribute in the meantime. Smith is a guy that explodes on the scene in a season or two if he's playing with a team like Minnesota (by the way, I expect big things from Ebi) or Indiana, a team with a lot of good players. 

Deng is the kind of guy that come to the Bulls, play his guts out, get coached well, handle a bunch of minutes and learn on the fly. He has a year with Coach K that will keep him grounded. He's also got years of his youth playing in Europe in the Junior Men's competitions there, which is far better preparation than AAU circuits here.

I think it's gotta be Deng.


----------



## bullet

Kris Humphries - 36 p 12 r in win against Indiana!

12 - 22 FG and 10-16 ft (16 times at the ftl!!!) 2-2 3p

Bad team but he's a STUDDDDDDDDDDD!


----------



## dsouljah9

<b>Showtyme...</b>

I too think Deng is a very good player and I think that he and Andre Iguodala are comparable to each other. But, I guess that we would haave to wait until college b-ball season is over to see who comes out(as well as where we will draft), then we will have a much clearer picture of who we should draft


----------



## bullet

Well,I do agree Deng is the better man for us,I can't say he's comparable to Iguolada!
while Deng has much more scoring abilities,Iguodala is the better athlete and better then Deng in every other aspect on court.this reason alone - Dengs options on offense - makes him a complete player and quite a 'close to pefect' sf ! he does everything well,and he's still getting better!


----------



## andras

very good post, showtime!
are there any good clips from deng on the web?


----------



## spongyfungy

This is one weak draft. Since we have 3 2nd round draft picks, can't we trade up and develop those players? We'll have to give up 2nd round for the next two years after this to houston.

What's scary is that San Antonio gets Phoenix's draft pick which is crazy. imagine a front court of duncan and deng


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## cheezdoodle

It's finally up. 

www.draftcity.com

You guys can use the comment boxes or post feedback here.


----------



## curry_52

> Originally posted by <b>cheezdoodle</b>!
> It's finally up.
> 
> www.draftcity.com
> 
> You guys can use the comment boxes or post feedback here.



:clap: 

:rock: 

:greatjob:


----------



## andras

> Originally posted by <b>cheezdoodle</b>!
> It's finally up.
> 
> www.draftcity.com
> 
> You guys can use the comment boxes or post feedback here.


I had a brief look - I don't have much time right now, but will be back later - and at first sight it looks REALLY, REALLY GOOD!!


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## bullet

Sharunas Yaskivicious 27 p 7 a including game winning shot at last second!


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## truebluefan

just watched okafor. I admit this was just the third time this season. 

On his offensive game, is it me or is this the second coming of Curry? Low post, plays back to the basket, can hit the little jumper?? This would be like Brand and Curry playing together. 

Okafor seems to be a combination of Chandler/Curry into one. Has Chandlers rebounding and blocking. Can score in the low post, similar to Curry. 

If we take, Okafor, then we move Chandler. We should get a nice player and a pick for him.


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## curry_52

Although Okafor offensive game is much improved, he is not even close to being an Eddy Curry type of offensive player.


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## Colombian BULL Fan

I think Okafor can do what Chandler can on the defensive end, plus he have more offensive presence than TC by now...let´s see what Chandler can do for the rest of the season..


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## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> Although Okafor offensive game is much improved, he is not even close to being an Eddy Curry type of offensive player.


Yeah, he might actually be better. 

Okafor can step out and make the J now. In a game last week, he took a guy off the dribble from the wing. And he rarely finesses it. THis kid is going to be great. He is on my wish list, along with Smith and Deng. Okafor is going to be a nice addition to whomever gets him.


----------



## curry_52

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> Yeah, he might actually be better.


:clown:


----------



## truebluefan

One drawback about Okafor is he shoots 50% from foul line. That could lose us some games.


----------



## truebluefan

http://www.suntimes.com/output/bull...t-roman221.html

*PAXSON ON THE ROAD: Paxson plans to travel overseas in the next week to scout European talent in the Spanish Cup.

Paxson was taking a look at Peoria Central's Shaun Livingston on Saturday.*


----------



## truebluefan

Sato in the second round? 

I am really warming up to idea of getting. I know he is only 6-5 but the guy can shoot the 3, plays lock down defense and has a 7/0 wing span! He has hops as well.


----------



## Benny the Bull

Two guys who have mentioned many times in this thread are Nocioni and Macijauskas. I know will be FAs, but could someone tell me a bit more about them? 

I know Macijauskas is known for his shooting, but would is his defense and ball handling like?

As for Noiconi, I think I read he is quite athletic, but what are his strengths and weaknesses?

Finally, realistically, if they played in the NBA, what type of roles would they have?


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>Benny the Bull</b>!
> Two guys who have mentioned many times in this thread are Nocioni and Macijauskas. I know will be FAs, but could someone tell me a bit more about them?
> 
> I know Macijauskas is known for his shooting, but would is his defense and ball handling like?
> 
> As for Noiconi, I think I read he is quite athletic, but what are his strengths and weaknesses?
> 
> Finally, realistically, if they played in the NBA, what type of roles would they have?


macijauskas is a welsh clone. maybe 2 inches smaller. Keeps coming at you. He has decent to good handles and while not a prototype big 2, he hustles and plays aggressively. i see him taking atleast one or 2 charges a game. the guy is good at that

Nocioni. Simple, think Matt Harpring. Nice range but more rugged. Athletic. nice J. Good pro body. good off the ball, nice in between game. Not a great ball handler, and maybe laterally, a bit slow to play the 3 in the nba. though his open court speed is pretty good


----------



## Benny the Bull

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> macijauskas is a welsh clone. maybe 2 inches smaller. Keeps coming at you. He has decent to good handles and while not a prototype big 2, he hustles and plays aggressively. i see him taking atleast one or 2 charges a game. the guy is good at that
> 
> Nocioni. Simple, think Matt Harpring. Nice range but more rugged. Athletic. nice J. Good pro body. good off the ball, nice in between game. Not a great ball handler, and maybe laterally, a bit slow to play the 3 in the nba. though his open court speed is pretty good


Thanks rlucas.


----------



## superdave

Ryan Gomes, Ryan Gomes, Ryan Gomes.

Ryan Gomes anyone?


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>superdave</b>!
> Ryan Gomes, Ryan Gomes, Ryan Gomes.
> 
> Ryan Gomes anyone?


not in the top 5. later in the draft? maybe


----------



## superdave

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> not in the top 5. later in the draft? maybe


Yeah but I still think he should be discussed. He had 26/12 against Okafor (in an upset win) and will be one of the most immediate contributors in next years draft. He is quite the athlete and has added a nice three point shot to his game this season. Only a junior. This guy is flying under everyone's radar and he shouldn't be.

NBADraft.net really needs to update its ranking. I'm sounding like a broken record here but... Shaun Livingston is not a lottery pick. What a complete joke.

For the Bulls, I am wishing either Gomes or Luke Jackson is with us next season.


----------



## InPaxWeTrust

Share anything you know about Gomes SD. I am in the dark bigtime when it comes to him.


----------



## curry_52

> Originally posted by <b>superdave</b>!
> He had 26/12 against Okafor (in an upset win).


He outplayed Okafor?? Thats not possible, sorry.


----------



## superdave

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> 
> He outplayed Okafor?? Thats not possible, sorry.


LOL. Okafor is mostly untouchable on these boards and for good reason. He's a future star. I'm also high on Gomes, I'll put a better scouting report on him when I have time.


----------



## InPaxWeTrust

> I'm also high on Gomes, I'll put a better scouting report on him when I have time.


Thanks SD. I look forward to reading it.


----------



## superdave

> Originally posted by <b>IntheBlinkofaDeng</b>!
> Share anything you know about Gomes SD. I am in the dark bigtime when it comes to him.


Gomes is a bigtime player who most people haven't heard of. He's listed as a 4 but has played lots of 3 this season and his outside game has really improved. Current season average of 20/10/3 after latest win at ND. 52% FG and 36% from long range. 88% from the charity stripe and gets there about 6 times a game. A great scorer who takes over games like he did in the second half at ND (23 of 25 pts in 2nd H). Gave Okafor all he could handle in an upset win in January, most onlookers say he outplayed him.

The big question is whether his offensive game will translate in the pros. He is an explosive athlete and already has a great post game. But at 6'7" he needs to show he can handle the 3 spot in the pros. IMO he can, others probably see him as a David West type of player. This is probably why he is only viewed as pick in the 10-15 range now


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>superdave</b>!
> 
> 
> Gomes is a bigtime player who most people haven't heard of. He's listed as a 4 but has played lots of 3 this season and his outside game has really improved. Current season average of 20/10/3 after latest win at ND. 52% FG and 36% from long range. 88% from the charity stripe and gets there about 6 times a game. A great scorer who takes over games like he did in the second half at ND (23 of 25 pts in 2nd H). Gave Okafor all he could handle in an upset win in January, most onlookers say he outplayed him.
> 
> The big question is whether his offensive game will translate in the pros. He is an explosive athlete and already has a great post game. But at 6'7" he needs to show he can handle the 3 spot in the pros. IMO he can, others probably see him as a David West type of player. This is probably why he is only viewed as pick in the 10-15 range now


good post. His team is doing well. Alot of his stock will hinge on tournament play. I look forward to watching him play some more


----------



## ABull

Hello all and RLucas. Many already know who I am.

It's been a long time since I've posted here. Everyone once in a while I've lurked a little, but since I usually have the cookies turned off it never let me log in. 

Some of the info here is more accurate than others, but I've enjoyed reading some of your opinions anyway. 

About Gomes... He isn't hyped?? lol. He sure gets hyped alot if you live in the States. I guess it just depends on the level of exposure. As previously stated he is only 6'7" and spends most of his time within 15 feet of the basket. He isn't some pure short PF, which usually dooms similar college players, but he isn't a sure thing to make a smooth transition as a SF either. Recently opponents have just decided they'll let him score and defend the other 4 players and it's been working fairly well. Also describing Gomes as "explosive" is a reach. He doesn't look like he should be as effective as he is. Plus he lacks the necessary ball handling skills to be consider a lottery pick SF IMO. The draft is weak, but not THAT weak. I guess we'll see if enough guys stay out of the draft for that to happen.


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>ABull</b>!
> Hello all and RLucas. Many already know who I am.
> 
> It's been a long time since I've posted here. Everyone once in a while I've lurked a little, but since I usually have the cookies turned off it never let me log in.
> 
> Some of the info here is more accurate than others, but I've enjoyed reading some of your opinions anyway.
> 
> About Gomes... He isn't hyped?? lol. He sure gets hyped alot if you live in the States. I guess it just depends on the level of exposure. As previously stated he is only 6'7" and spends most of his time within 15 feet of the basket. He isn't some pure short PF, which usually dooms similar college players, but he isn't a sure thing to make a smooth transition as a SF either. Recently opponents have just decided they'll let him score and defend the other 4 players and it's been working fairly well. Also describing Gomes as "explosive" is a reach. He doesn't look like he should be as effective as he is. Plus he lacks the necessary ball handling skills to be consider a lottery pick SF IMO. The draft is weak, but not THAT weak. I guess we'll see if enough guys stay out of the draft for that to happen.


hello Abull! Great having you around. It would be great to get your opinion on the draft. We certainly had a great draft thread last year, and alot of that was cause of your insight. So I look forward to reading your stuff this year!.


----------



## ABull

I guess I should say that I think virtually every player this year is being overrated since it's a weaker class. 

So I'll say the hype machine is working WAY too hard on guys like Okafor. Yes he'll be one of the top 2 picks, but that doesn't mean he is the next NBA superstar. 

I remember getting loudly criticized (Wow I guess all the way back on NBATALK) for saying then stuck at the end of the bench J.Oneal was a better player than soon to be #1 pick Kenyon Martin etc. Hopefully people will remember the amount of hype guys like Martin got and remember to be objective. Basically don't just lock onto one player since it'll just cloud your opinion of other players.


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>ABull</b>!
> I guess I should say that I think virtually every player this year is being overrated since it's a weaker class.
> 
> So I'll say the hype machine is working WAY too hard on guys like Okafor. Yes he'll be one of the top 2 picks, but that doesn't mean he is the next NBA superstar.
> 
> I remember getting loudly criticized (Wow I guess all the way back on NBATALK) for saying then stuck at the end of the bench J.Oneal was a better player than soon to be #1 pick Kenyon Martin etc. Hopefully people will remember the amount of hype guys like Martin got and remember to be objective. Basically don't just lock onto one player since it'll just cloud your opinion of other players.


Well i disagree. okafor is a heck of a prospect. if he came out last year he would have gone no lower then 4 in what was a truly amazing draft. This kid is the real deal. But its going to take some divine intervention for us to get him

What the draft has become over the last 5-7 years is essentially a futures market. There are no finishes prospects. Even the finished prospects from Europe in the mid 90s like Peja etc arent there cause we take the young from Europe right away. So we need to be able to ascertain who is going to be good in 2-3 years rather then now. We only know for certain that Okafor is going to be good right now. But in 2-3 years, it wouldnt shock me if this is the Josh Smith draft. getting picks like Carmello and Lebron dont happen very often

But at the end of the day, i could see Okafor around 13 pts 10 bds and among the top 10 in blks on day one. Depends on where he goes. But the kid has the right attitude and plays a solid, intelligent game to go with amazing athletic ability. Plus the kid has tremendous upside. I mean, he went from Tyson Chandler offensive skills as a freshman to a legit 1 option for a major college university. over the same time span, he found a way to add 35 lbs of pure muscle and GET a 3.9 GPA in finance. I think you can safely say the sky is the limit for him when he can concentrate on basketball 100%. I mean, he isnt doing badly when apparently only devoting 50-60% of his time to it. He is probably the most finished big guy to come out since Duncan (that includes Brand) and arguably the hardest working player to come out from long before that


----------



## ABull

I debate the 260lbs. figures I've seen thrown around recently. And he is much much improved, but he still isn't a legit NBA pure low post big. His primary purpose will be to rebound, defend and block shots. In the NBA unless he goes to a very weak team he'll be a third option IMO. Chandler averaged 13/10/2 or so this year before we shut him down etc. If I had to guess now I'd peg him around 14/11/3 etc. his first year. Those are GREAT #'s, but they are not 25/12/2 etc. like a Duncan or a Garnett etc. Even David Robinson was a better jump shooter and had 4 inches on Okafor. No matter what he'll always be 6'9" and somewhat ackward facing bigger defenders in the NBA. Kenyon Martin will get a Max Contract this year probably, but you can't convince me he is a superstar. The superstars will come from the younger players. It just depends on who comes out and who gets lucky. You can be an All-Star (in the EC he'd be close his rookie yr) and still not be a superstar or future superstar etc.


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>ABull</b>!
> I debate the 260lbs. figures I've seen thrown around recently. And he is much much improved, but he still isn't a legit NBA pure low post big. His primary purpose will be to rebound, defend and block shots. In the NBA unless he goes to a very weak team he'll be a third option IMO. Chandler averaged 13/10/2 or so this year before we shut him down etc. If I had to guess now I'd peg him around 14/11/3 etc. his first year. Those are GREAT #'s, but they are not 25/12/2 etc. like a Duncan or a Garnett etc. Even David Robinson was a better jump shooter and had 4 inches on Okafor. No matter what he'll always be 6'9" and somewhat ackward facing bigger defenders in the NBA. Kenyon Martin will get a Max Contract this year probably, but you can't convince me he is a superstar. The superstars will come from the younger players. It just depends on who comes out and who gets lucky. You can be an All-Star (in the EC he'd be close his rookie yr) and still not be a superstar or future superstar etc.


he came to Uconn at 220, is 252 now. He is also listed at 6-10.

Id also like to point out that when you watch his game, he now knocks down the 15 footer. Even last week, I saw him pump fake from 15 feet get into the lane off the dribble and finish with a nice 12 footer. While I dont see him as a 20 ppg player in the NBA, I do see him as a guy much further along then Chandler on both ends of the court


----------



## rlucas4257

abull, check your PM


----------



## ABull

Did I say he worse than Chandler??? No. I just pointed out you projected him with the same numbers.

The #'s you suggested are that of a solid starter (the same #'s of TC) - not the next Tim Duncan. I've seen Ike Diogu hit 3's before, but I won't call him a 3pt shooter. There is a big difference between doing something occasionally and consistently. The way you're hyping him would lead people to believe you think he would more along the lines of a 20+ppg NBA player. I just don't see that anytime soon.

I'm confused as to what the big deal is. He'll score some, but thats not why he is getting drafted top 2 most likely. It's just a bonus. Plus you have to get the ball to score. You're also assuming the team he goes will use him as a real offensive threat. Many times there is just a big a difference between what a player is capable of and what their actual roles are. I already said he would be close to an all-star in the EC as a rookie and you think I'm still underrating him?? Either you agree or your projections have to moved upwards it seems.


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>ABull</b>!
> Did I say he worse than Chandler??? No. I just pointed out you projected him with the same numbers.
> 
> The #'s you suggested are that of a solid starter (the same #'s of TC) - not the next Tim Duncan. I've seen Ike Diogu hit 3's before, but I won't call him a 3pt shooter. There is a big difference between doing something occasionally and consistently. The way you're hyping him would lead people to believe you think he would more along the lines of a 20+ppg NBA player. I just don't see that anytime soon.
> 
> I'm confused as to what the big deal is. He'll score some, but thats not why he is getting drafted top 2 most likely. It's just a bonus. Plus you have to get the ball to score. You're also assuming the team he goes will use him as a real offensive threat. Many times there is just a big a difference between what a player is capable of and what their actual roles are. I already said he would be close to an all-star in the EC as a rookie and you think I'm still underrating him?? Either you agree or your projections have to moved upwards it seems.


I think you can project him out as an allstar in any conference based on the fact that he has improved so much while essentially having a real successful life outside of basketball. Just think what he will do when he concentrates fully on the game? I wouldnt call what I do as "hyping". Its stating an opinion. Considering that he is the most likely college player of the year, the number one overall pick and throwing up stats that no college player has since Tim Duncan means that he is in the ballpark. is he Tim Duncan? No. But he is a factor on day one and could grow into a central building block. you can do worse with the number one pick (see kwame brown). At the least, he is Antonio McDyess pre injury


----------



## ABull

Okay Antonio McDyess is much closer to what his max potential would be IMO. 

I remember calling Tyson Chandler a perfect garbage type player after or during his rookie year and they damn near all but kicked me off r...., but alas thats what he is still. I don't view that as some huge insult. Every good team needs those type players and they can be VERY valuable. But you can only score if you get the ball.

Okafor is an impact rookie, but his role IMO will be similar throughout his career. I would be surprised if he ever was a dominant 2nd option on a good team. Look at the struggles of UCONN etc. They can dominate the boards/paint and still lose anyway despite having the most stacked lineup in college.

The scouts and GM's project Howard out to a much bigger role so he gets an equal footing with Okafor. Okafor tomorrow would DESTROY Howard, but it doesn't matter.


----------



## curry_52

Pax scouting trip begins today (I guess) as the "Copa del Rey" is underway.
Barca vs Real (Wow!!!) 

We know he will scout Nocioni, Macijauskas, Kambala, Reyes and Rudy Fernandez (I hope). 
Bodiroga?


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> Pax scouting trip begins today (I guess) as the "Copa del Rey" is underway.
> Barca vs Real (Wow!!!)
> 
> We know he will scout Nocioni, Macijauskas, Kambala, Reyes and Rudy Fernandez (I hope).
> Bodiroga?


reyes and kambala are interesting players. any thoughts on them? 

To get Bodriga would require a trade with Sacramento. all indications are that Dejan would like to give the NBA one shot. Sacramento nearly dealt him to Toronto 2 years ago for a first round pick. I wonder what it would take to get him. And how the heck does Sacramento keep beating the rest of the NBA to these guys?


----------



## curry_52

Reyes and Kambala seem to be quite the opposite. 
Reyes is a mature player, very aggresive, quick and he is a good rebounder. He is very intensive and can put some points as well. This guy is still improving and he has the willingness to do so. 

And Kambala is sometimes an Euro Eddy Curry: He takes plays off on Defense, he loves to pad stats when games are over, and his attitude is questionable. What is out of question is his natural talent, his quality and his great body. He is 100% muscular but a tad undersized (at least for NBA standars considering he is a center...but that is very normal). He is around 6'9.


----------



## curry_52

The problem with Bodiroga is that he is already 31 years old and not getting younger. I mean, he will be 32 years old next season (NBA) and Im sure he will stay in Europe unless you pony up some $$$$$. Again, knowing he is 31/32 by next season, Bodiroga wont hesisate to come to the NBA....but as a Bull? No way, IMO. You have 2-3 good years left in your tank, do you go to one of the worst teams in the NBA just for the sake of playing in the NBA? No. Do you leave an Euro powerhouse to play for a rebuilding NBA team? No.
Now, if Sac-Town decides to make him a good offer (money + playing time) he will come to the States. Bodiroga and Peja on the same backcourt?? Ugh, houston we have a problem (or 28 problems).


----------



## InPaxWeTrust

Bodriga should join the Kings next season. I imagine there will be minutes for him as a super sixth man.


----------



## curry_52

Kings second unit next season:
Divac
Songaila
Bodiroga
Wallace
Bobby J

(Miller, Webber, Peja, Christie, Bibby)


----------



## rlucas4257

good find by spook. I thought it would be well served here as well

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/writers/stewart_mandel/02/25/mandel.insider/index.html


----------



## curry_52

Copa del Rey update:

DKV Joventut 90
Manresa 87

Rudy Fernandez (Very good prospect, I hope Pax takes a look at him!!): 15 Points, 5 Rebounds, 3 Assists, 2 Steals

Barca 71
Real 70 (Game not over)

Bodiroga: 11 Points, 7 Rebounds, 3 Assists, 
Kambala: 24 Points, 5 Rebounds, 1 Assist, 1 Steal


I may be able to watch the games later.


----------



## curry_52

Final Score:
Barca 80
Real 79

Navarro MVP of the game
Kambala scored 26 to go with 8 rebounds.

Note: Navarro out for the rest of the cup with an injury.


----------



## rlucas4257

I am sure the fans of Barcelona will be happy. Barcelona/Madrid is one of the biggest rivalries in sports anywhere

On to NBAdraft.net. Abull (check your PM) pointed something out yesterday. NBAdraft.net really changed up the draft. Here are the interesting tidbits

Pavel really dropped. I think we all knew he would. They have him at 10. other interesting tidbits. Biedrins keeps creeping up. I spoke to a guy yesterday who swears this kid, with patience, is going to be a star. I just dont know. Okafor is not the #1 pick anymore, Howard supplanted him. Smith is the #3 pick, right in front of Deng who is 4. Igoudala is also in the top 7. Telfair, is up to 11ish

One guy who has been impressive this year and keeps creeping up is Sasha Vujacic. He is a 6-7 PG. He has gone from early second round to late first and up to 20. With Livingston going high cause he is a 6-8 PG, dont be surprised if this kid somehow creeps up there in front of Nelson or Gordon on draft day. 

Secound round picks are interesting. Sato, Drejer (wow), Paulding, Duhon, Rice. Not a bad list of guys they have going after us in round 2.


----------



## truebluefan

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> I am sure the fans of Barcelona will be happy. Barcelona/Madrid is one of the biggest rivalries in sports anywhere
> 
> On to NBAdraft.net. Abull (check your PM) pointed something out yesterday. NBAdraft.net really changed up the draft. Here are the interesting tidbits
> 
> Pavel really dropped. I think we all knew he would. They have him at 10. other interesting tidbits. Biedrins keeps creeping up. I spoke to a guy yesterday who swears this kid, with patience, is going to be a star. I just dont know. Okafor is not the #1 pick anymore, Howard supplanted him. Smith is the #3 pick, right in front of Deng who is 4. Igoudala is also in the top 7. Telfair, is up to 11ish
> 
> One guy who has been impressive this year and keeps creeping up is Sasha Vujacic. He is a 6-7 PG. He has gone from early second round to late first and up to 20. With Livingston going high cause he is a 6-8 PG, dont be surprised if this kid somehow creeps up there in front of Nelson or Gordon on draft day.
> 
> Secound round picks are interesting. Sato, Drejer (wow), Paulding, Duhon, Rice. Not a bad list of guys they have going after us in round 2.


We should get a decent player in the second round. Look at what Arenas is doing!! 

Sato and Rice, I like! Duhon? Maybe.


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>truebluefan</b>!
> 
> 
> We should get a decent player in the second round. Look at what Arenas is doing!!
> 
> Sato and Rice, I like! Duhon? Maybe.


Drejer in round 2 would be a steal. I am not a huge fan of his, but in round 2, great value


----------



## BCH

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> Drejer in round 2 would be a steal. I am not a huge fan of his, but in round 2, great value


I can't imagine Drejer all of a sudden entering the NBA draft at this point.


----------



## bullet

I'd add Dellonte Holland to the 2nd round steals.
what about w.Simien - isn't he coming out this year,can be this drafts Boozer...
Okafur if available is 1st option,just the best prospect.
About Deng - OK,i'd be more then Happy if we picked him,but I think he is not the perfect match for us.his an allaround SF,good at both sides of court,and good rebounder.
I think we need a superscorer,a guy like Mello,to take all the attention off Kirk and JC.
Iguodala is the 2nd SF that can contribute right away(It would take Josh and livingston time to contribute),and he is not a good scorer(but great at all the rest).
Ben Gordon is quite a sure pick in turms of scoring,but he's a guard(and a small one)and a trade down.
Kris humphries - very good option if we trade down, scoring, rebounding,nba most ready body,super developing every year,young and ready(19)


----------



## truebluefan

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> Drejer in round 2 would be a steal. I am not a huge fan of his, but in round 2, great value


I agree with BCH. Besides didn't he just sign a contract? 

I would not like having a player that quit college in the middle of the season to play elsewhere! I would stear clear of this one.


----------



## Benny the Bull

Drejer would be to good to pass up in the 2nd round. There are some aspects of his game that are very good for someone his size.

He supposedly has an opt-out clause to go the NBA. I think I read that on this thread somewhere. I could be wrong.

In any case, if available, take him in the 2nd round, and let him stay in Europe for 1, 2 or even 3 years.


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>truebluefan</b>!
> 
> 
> I agree with BCH. Besides didn't he just sign a contract?
> 
> I would not like having a player that quit college in the middle of the season to play elsewhere! I would stear clear of this one.


Ford actually bashed this exact opinion today. I agree with Ford

Why should we hold Drejer higher then the college coaches who abandon entire recruiting classes? So a kid got an offer to go and play for one of the best sports organizations in the world (FC Barcelona has a value in the same league as the Yankees), get paid, and be closer to home for a year and we bash him? I dont get it. Then we have to hold everyone accountable. Just my 2 cents

He has an opt out of his contract this summer if he decides to enter the draft


----------



## Showtyme

Ford's take on Insider was interesting.

1. He thinks Iggy might be worth a top 6 pick. There was a minor slip of a Pippen reference in there.

2. Vujacic is making his way up as well, supposedly a lock for the first round. Maybe. I don't know how this guy plays.

3. He likes Devin Harris, saying he's showing more PG skills than Ben Gordon (simply because he actually plays PG, while Gordon is stuck at the SG spot for now).

4. Andriuskevicius is another guy, the one they think will come from nowhere. A younger, healthier, stronger version of Ilgauskas. Maybe. They are talking about him as if he's way better than Pavel. Maybe.

5. Kirk Snyder, Nevada. The guy is just good. A complete player, he can do basically everything, although his competition is the WAC. 

6. Telfair. They think he's going to be great, but Ford basically said that you can't teach size.

7. Rafael Arujo. The best college big man in the draft after Okafor, but not superathletic. A rugged rebounder and scorer.

They also think Jameer Nelson is a little too hot in people's eyes, along with Ryan Gomes. Ivan Chiriaev also has been suffering from lack of competition in Canada.

Gordon, Warrick, Paulding, and Antoine Wright have all slipped a little.

And as rlucas noted, he thinks Drejer is a wait-and-see situation, and that people shouldn't knock him for jumping to the European league and leaving his Gators, because yes, coaches do it all the time.


----------



## curry_52

Winners and Losers (NBA stock - Copa Del Rey)

Winners:
Nocioni (I cant imagine Pax not wanting this guy)
Rudy Fernandez
Felipe Reyes
Juan C Navarro
Kambala
Scola
Varejao


Losers:
Macijauskas
Drejer
Bodiroga
Oberto


----------



## curry_52

I dont know how Navarro managed to play injured. I mean, if you are injured you dont play, thats selfish from Navarro. In spite of a broken finger (Remember I told you that he was out for the rest of the cup), Navarro came from the bench today and made a superb effort: 27 points in 23 minutes, 6-7 from 3pt land and 1 assist. This guy gave Barca a huge boost, but it wasnt enough.


----------



## johnston797

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> Ford actually bashed this exact opinion today. I agree with Ford
> 
> Why should we hold Drejer higher then the college coaches who abandon entire recruiting classes? So a kid got an offer to go and play for one of the best sports organizations in the world (FC Barcelona has a value in the same league as the Yankees), get paid, and be closer to home for a year and we bash him? I dont get it. Then we have to hold everyone accountable. Just my 2 cents
> 
> He has an opt out of his contract this summer if he decides to enter the draft


Good post. 

If teams are willing to give Eddie Griffin another shot, it's a joke to be concerned about Drejer's behavior even if it was poor. And I would agree with RLucus that it wasn't.


----------



## curry_52

Im watching the final right now (Copa del Rey). Will report later.


----------



## Colombian BULL Fan

Tau won the final of Copa del Rey.

Scola with 24 pts.
Macijauskas with 17pts.
Nocioni with 15pts.

Nice, very solid game of Juv´s Rudy Fernandez.


----------



## Colombian BULL Fan

Tau won the final of Copa del Rey.

Scola with 24 pts.
Macijauskas with 17pts.
Nocioni with 18pts.

Nice, very solid game of Juv´s Rudy Fernandez. who finished with 15pts.


----------



## Colombian BULL Fan

Tau won the final of Copa del Rey.

Scola with 24 pts.
Macijauskas with 17pts.
Nocioni with 18pts.

Nice, very solid game of Juv´s Rudy Fernandez. who finished with 15pts.


----------



## Colombian BULL Fan

Arvydas Macijauskas TAU CERÁMICA


----------



## curry_52

TAU 81
Joventut 77

MVP: Rudy Fernandez (Cant believe they gave him the award, Scola had a terrific cup and played for the winning team...but since Rudy Fernandez is from Spain and Scola argentinean, I guess the authorities decided to give the award to the young spaniard, that had a great tournament himself but was a step behind Scola and even Nocioni)

Back to the game. As almost every final, it was almost painful to watch. Too much adrenaline, worn down legs (It was TAUs 3rd game in 3 nights, go figure) and everybody watching this game, including 32 NBA representatives (They didnt show them, so I couldnt spot Pax). 

The first half was close, TAU would make a run and then Joventut would respond. Nocioni had a very good first half, taking 2 charges for offensive fouls, battling for every rebound and scoring a bunch of points. He was all over the place. Great intensity. He is similar to Chandler in that aspect, like giving high fives, chest bumps, and so on. Scola (His rights belong to the Spurs) was almost unstoppable down the basket, he killed Tabak with the short jumper or hook. But on the other side of the court, he couldnt stop Tabak that used mainly hooks to get his points. 
Macijauskas was unimpressive during the first 2 periods, making some mental mistakes and missing some "easy" shots. If you add that he picked up 2 quick fouls early, he couldnt do much. But he still managed to score 2 or 3 difficult baskets, including a pullaway jumper. His off the ball movement was very good as well, but his shots didnt go down. Rudy Fernandez, an 18 years old spaniard, didnt do much but he was keeping the best for the second part.

So we go to the second half. Same development: Tau will go up by 7 or 8 points and then Joventunt would make a run and keep this one close. Finally Macijauskas stepped up his game. I see some Reggie Miller on him, his off the ball movement, his quick release and his sweeeesshhh. His was much more active on both sides of the ball, he also displayed his quick hands to get the steal or block the shot. This being said, he didnt look comfortable when his man would attack the basket. He oftenly was blown away with a quick first step. Ivanovic, TAUs coach, let him know this and what he was doing not so well. He had a very good block on a jumper, he reacted so quick. And he also took a couple of charges, one with no call (but he was still there). He wasnt a lot more effective on the offensive side, but he was involved in the game and was a decisive player during the last 5 minutes of the game (Either sinking key free throws -this guy wont miss from there-, knocking down a 3 or getting the pass to the open guy). Nocioni's game went down in the first part of the second but he stepped up close and late. He missed many long shots, but thats a symptom that he trusts himself and that his outside game is much improved. He intimidated Rudy Fernandez late in the game, trying to use some words to get this youngster out of the game. He would rarely get victimized on the defensive end, though his help defense wasnt the best tonight (He had a nice block when a guy tried to dunk the ball). His energy never went down, he played like every minute (close to 40) for the third straight night (Yesterday he sit longer because it was a blowout). He isnt a rebounding machine, but he is always there, battling for position and letting the others know he is there. We always ask Eddy Curry to give the hard foul and show some passion? Well, if we ever get Nocioni, we will ask him to cool down a little bit! He gave a hard foul tonight, not backing down for second. He had a key 3 late in the game. Rudy Fernandez, who wasnt so effective during the first 20 minutes, was Joventut man during their last key run of the game. They were up like by 6 with 4 minutes remaining, in part to this guy that is a great talent and a future NBA player. His body is very similar to that of Tayshaun Prince, but without the upper body strength. He had the play of the game. Im not being fair with him: he had the play of the tournament tonight. He left his defender helpless with a spin move and threw down the alleyoop dunk with his back to the basket. The crow went nuts at this point. Joventut, the underdog, was knocking TAU down, the clear cut favorite, with the help of the young sensation. Not even mention that TAU key players are foreigners like Nocioni, Scola and Macijauskas ("Mache"). Rudy was all over the place during the last minutes, he even connected a long 3 along the baseline with the clock running down on Nocioni's face, that couldnt lift his hand at the right time. TAU's experience, and clutch players like Macijauskas and Nocioni were key for them to hold to the cup. There were some questionable calls, giving Joventut a headache. 
Macijasukas 2 free throws ended the game, while Nocioni was already giving up high fives and on celebration mode. 

The game was finally over. Everyone was waiting to hear "Lets give it up for Luis Scola, the MVP!!" but that didnt ever happen. When they announced that Rudy Fernandez was the MVP, the commentors run out of words and you could see Nocioni's face saying "WTF!?!?". He was clapping, but he knew that his friend Scola was robbed. A humbled Fernandez accepted the trophy, the first of many to come. He was the best player of the game. But TAU was too much for them and the best team of the Cup. No Doubt.

Bulls Watch:
Nocioni- 20 Points, 7 Rebounds, 2 Assists, 3 steals, 1 Block
Macijauskas- 17 Points, 1 Rebound, 2 Assists, 2 Steals, 2 Blocks
Rudy F (MVP)- 15 Points, 6 Rebounds, 2 Assists, 2 Steals, 2 Blocks


:whoknows:


----------



## curry_52

Tabak using the hook over Scola (Left) and Nocioni (Center). Nocioni was called for a foul on this play.










Macijauskas getting rejected









Nocioni, are the Bulls next? Or...are the Toros next? This guy is a Bull!!!










Scola, who was robbed of the MVP award, driving to the basket (The Spurs hold his rights)


----------



## Colombian BULL Fan

I agree that Scola should have been the MVP, but that dunk of Fernandez was awesome...

I was listening to spanish tv comments and they just love that kid (although they agreed that Scola was the MVP)


----------



## curry_52

Some additional thoughts:

- Scola could be a nice addition to the Spurs rotation. I mean, if you have Kevin Willis and Robert Horry, you can make a place for Scola. 
- Everyone was trying to find Macijauskas, from Nocioni to Scola, from Calderon to Prigioni. He is their go to guy on a very talented team, so thats saying a lot about Mache.
- Nocioni went untested. I feel opponents tried to avoid going against him, but he didnt look THAT well on defense. Some lateral movements arent there, theres room for improvement. 
- Rudy Fernandez can do it all. Score, play D, rebound, find the open guy. He is only 18. We better keep an eye on him.
- Bodiroga is clearly on the way down. He is still better than 99% of them, but he hasnt much more left. Its now or never.
- Nocioni is a great open court player. He can handle the ball very well and knows how to finish. Unselfish. Not as nastier as some time ago. 
- Oberto is better than Scola. Oberto is a FA and Scola is still under San Antonio wings. You do the math. This being said: Im the only one surprised by McGraw (I think it was him) saying the Bulls are interested in Oberto? I know the Knicks were after him a couple years ago, maybe they should go after him now. 
- Splitter will be the man down the road. He is a Top 5 pick next year or in 2006.
- Who was Pax watching in the Italian Cup? Pavel? Im sure it wasnt Vujanic or Delfino.

Add yours!!


----------



## Darius Miles Davis

Hey all, Deng scored 20 in a tough win over Florida State tonight which I did not have the fortune of seeing? Did anyone get to see this game? Comments on Deng?


----------



## bullet

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> Some additional thoughts:
> 
> - Scola could be a nice addition to the Spurs rotation. I mean, if you have Kevin Willis and Robert Horry, you can make a place for Scola.
> - Everyone was trying to find Macijauskas, from Nocioni to Scola, from Calderon to Prigioni. He is their go to guy on a very talented team, so thats saying a lot about Mache.
> - Nocioni went untested. I feel opponents tried to avoid going against him, but he didnt look THAT well on defense. Some lateral movements arent there, theres room for improvement.
> - Rudy Fernandez can do it all. Score, play D, rebound, find the open guy. He is only 18. We better keep an eye on him.
> - Bodiroga is clearly on the way down. He is still better than 99% of them, but he hasnt much more left. Its now or never.
> - Nocioni is a great open court player. He can handle the ball very well and knows how to finish. Unselfish. Not as nastier as some time ago.
> - Oberto is better than Scola. Oberto is a FA and Scola is still under San Antonio wings. You do the math. This being said: Im the only one surprised by McGraw (I think it was him) saying the Bulls are interested in Oberto? I know the Knicks were after him a couple years ago, maybe they should go after him now.
> - Splitter will be the man down the road. He is a Top 5 pick next year or in 2006.
> - Who was Pax watching in the Italian Cup? Pavel? Im sure it wasnt Vujanic or Delfino.
> 
> Add yours!!


GFood stuff Curry 52!!!

Did tiago Splitter play??


----------



## truebluefan

Dang! In a draft where we need a SF, Chad Ford talks about players whoware rising in the draft! Every single one of them are play every position but SF!!! Plenty of SG, Pg, Center/pf.


----------



## bullet

> Originally posted by <b>truebluefan</b>!
> Dang! In a draft where we need a SF, Chad Ford talks about players whoware rising in the draft! Every single one of them are play every position but SF!!! Plenty of SG, Pg, Center/pf.


I agree there is more of the rest but still:

Deng - pure sf
Josh Smith - probably play sf in nba

Hakim W and Humphries r sf/pf - and I think Humphries both will play sf.I am very high on Kris Humphries and think he's gonna be a star in the league - he has the skill and speed to play sf - and is to strong to be guarded in that position.

Iguodala is clearly a sf in the league and I think will turn out to be quite a productive one.

so in top 10 (or even 8) we'd probably see 3 sf's to be picked(Josh S,Deng - if enters and Iguodala.
thats 3 sf out of 8-10 picks.

there is always the option to trade the pick for one as well...


----------



## rlucas4257

Watch out for Warrick. With Miles starting to put it alltogether in Portland, that might help out Warrick.


----------



## curry_52

> Originally posted by <b>bullet</b>!
> 
> 
> GFood stuff Curry 52!!!
> 
> Did tiago Splitter play??


Yeah, he played a little in the final cause David fouled out and Scola was also with some foul trouble. He scored 3 points, If im not mistaken. He also commited a quick foul. He isnt getting much burn this year, maybe later (next season).


----------



## bullet

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> 
> 
> Yeah, he played a little in the final cause David fouled out and Scola was also with some foul trouble. He scored 3 points, If im not mistaken. He also commited a quick foul. He isnt getting much burn this year, maybe later (next season).


How big does he look?

Some places write him down as a 7 footer and some 6-10...


----------



## curry_52

> Originally posted by <b>bullet</b>!
> 
> 
> How big does he look?
> 
> Some places write him down as a 7 footer and some 6-10...


He looks big, but skinny. If you catch a TAU (Or Brazil) game, you would think its Pau Gasol instead of Splitter. No Kidding.










He is the guy right on the middle, with that funny face.


----------



## bullet

wow! 
Thanks Curry - who's the big guy on his left,for hight comparison?


----------



## curry_52

> Originally posted by <b>bullet</b>!
> wow!
> Thanks Curry - who's the big guy on his left,for hight comparison?


Andrew Betts. According to listings, Betts has 7cms over Splitter.


----------



## bullet

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> 
> 
> Andrew Betts. According to listings, Betts has 7cms over Splitter.


so he is 7-1 r what(Betts)??

BTW - draft 2004 date anyone??

june 26th???


----------



## curry_52

Emeka tonight against Seton Hall:
25 Points
16 Rebounds
2 Assists
3 Blocks
2 Steals


----------



## bullet

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> Emeka tonight against Seton Hall:
> 25 Points
> 16 Rebounds
> 2 Assists
> 3 Blocks
> 2 Steals


Yeah,I saw the game - he's got some nice post moves and scores a lot due to outrunning defenders to get position and score b4 defense is set!
Catch-turn-score type of plays - Karl Malone does this a lot.


----------



## curry_52

Philly, Detroit and Memphis ---> After Nocioni

Nocioni ----> Staying in TAU unless he gets playing time in the NBA


----------



## curry_52

Scola is under contract with TAU through 2007. Word is that TAU wants around 2M to let him walk (not gonna happen). Spurs may turn their attention to Oberto (Who is better than Scola).
Nocioni situation is similar, since his contract runs through 2006. If they (TAU) want 2M for Scola, they would ask for around 1.5M for Nocioni. The Bulls may have a good shot at him since they dont have an established SF (E-Rob may land in Charlotte, and JYD might get included in a trade this offseason) and we could give him 25+ minutes a night unlike teams like Memphis, that are loaded at the wings. Same goes for Detroit (Delfino buyout is 800K).


----------



## Benny the Bull

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> Emeka tonight against Seton Hall:
> 25 Points
> 16 Rebounds
> 2 Assists
> 3 Blocks
> 2 Steals


I saw that game. He was very impressive. His shot blocking instincts are amazing. He rarely goes for the fake, and jumps so quickly. He would certainly help the Bulls next season.


----------



## rlucas4257

one word describes Okafors game. Explosion. Not only does he have atheletic ability, he had the ability to stick it in someones mug with 2 guys draped on his back


----------



## truebluefan

An NBA scout said of the 6-foot-8 Childress: "He reminds you of Scottie Pippen the way he can take over a game. Childress is more skilled than Pippen was, but Pippen was more competitive. But lately, Childress has shown flashes of playing more aggressively."

This isn't to say Childress is this March's Carmelo Anthony, who led Syracuse to last year's NCAA title. But St. Joe's best player measured only 5-10 at last summer's NBA pre-draft camp in Chicago. Then, scouts questioned Jameer Nelson's quickness and vertical jump and advised him to return to school for his senior year.

http://www.montereyherald.com/mld/montereyherald/sports/8076855.htm


----------



## dsouljah9

There's no doubt that Nocioni would get playing time if he came on the Bulls; he could start. I would also love to get his teamate Tiago Splitter as well(if he enteres the draft). If he doesn't, Chiriaev, Smith and Oguodala are my choices.


----------



## Benny the Bull

> Originally posted by <b>truebluefan</b>!
> An NBA scout said of the 6-foot-8 Childress: "He reminds you of Scottie Pippen the way he can take over a game. Childress is more skilled than Pippen was, but Pippen was more competitive. But lately, Childress has shown flashes of playing more aggressively."
> 
> This isn't to say Childress is this March's Carmelo Anthony, who led Syracuse to last year's NCAA title. But St. Joe's best player measured only 5-10 at last summer's NBA pre-draft camp in Chicago. Then, scouts questioned Jameer Nelson's quickness and vertical jump and advised him to return to school for his senior year.
> 
> http://www.montereyherald.com/mld/montereyherald/sports/8076855.htm


If Childress could shoot better, he would be to able the 2, where he cause nightmares with his 7 foot wingspan. He is a nice prospect. His shooting has improved from last season.


----------



## rlucas4257

the guy is listed in mid first round. I have zero idea how anyone can compare him to one of the 50 best players of alltime. He is a nice player, and a 10 year starter in the league, who will probably have a James Posey like impact (pre recent Posey). But outside of that, these pippen comparisons are nuts


----------



## curry_52

From Hoopsworld.com 

How good is Emeka Okafor?
For the last great college NBA prospect, the hyperbole comes easily. (See, I just did it in that sentence.) 

In recent weeks, I've taken to declaring Connecticut center Emeka Okafor Ben Wallace with offense (hardly an original comparison) -- high praise given that even while averaging 10 points per game on 43.1% shooting (and 49.8% from the line), Wallace is one of the NBA's most dominant big men. 

Tonight, during their broadcast of UConn's victory over Seton Hall, one of ESPN's trio of announcers -- I think it was Jay Bilas, but can't recall for certain -- made the comparison between Okafor and Bill Russell, at least in terms of shot blocking. 

To the hype, I can't add much, but I can attempt to provide some kind of historical perspective using statistics. 

Let's begin by looking at the question of just how good Okafor's shot-blocking is in comparison to other recent players. I've taken NCAA statistics from Jazzy J's college basketball statistics site for 24 of the top shot-blockers over the last two decades, including Okafor. I admit my method was poor and I don't pretend that this is a comprehensive list. I picked some of the NBA's top current shot-blockers, a few players I knew were great shot-blockers in college, and most players with at least four blocks per game in a season the aforementioned site has leaders for (from 1990 through 1999). Here's the list: 


Blocks per 48
Player College Yr Fr So Jr Sr NBA Ratio Bk/PF
Calvin Booth Penn St 99 7.2 6.3 6.8 4.8 4.7 * 1.61
Shawn Bradley BYU 91 8.6 - - - 5.1 % 1.62
Kelvin Cato Iowa St 97 - - 4.9 7.1 4.5 .634 1.46
Keith Closs Central CT St 96 8.8 9.7 - - 5.3 % 2.14
T.Duncan Wake Forest 97 6.0 5.6 4.8 4.3 3.1 .717 1.48
P. Ewing Georgetown 85 5.4 5.0 5.4 5.7 2.8 .488 1.24
Adonal Foyle Colgate 97 6.6 7.5 8.2 - 3.8 .465 3.00
Eddie Griffin Seton Hall 01 6.5 - - - 3.4 .520 1.87
Cedric Lewis Maryland 91 4.7 4.6 5.4 7.1 - - 1.86
Zo Mourning Georgetown 92 8.4 3.5 3.9 7.3 4.9 .673 1.39
Mutombo Georgetown 91 - 9.6 7.7 6.7 3.7 .558 1.66
Emeka Okafor Connecticut 04 6.5 6.8 6.7 - - - 2.03
Olajuwon Houston 84 6.5 9.0 7.9 - 3.6 .460 1.75
Shaquille O'Neal LSU 92 6.1 7.6 7.9 - 4.5 .569 1.83
Theo Ratliff Wyoming 95 6.9 7.2 6.1 7.6 4.7 .563 1.52
David Robinson Navy 87 4.8 5.7 8.4 6.2 5.1 % 1.66
Ben Wallace VA Union 96 - - 6.2 6.1 2.7 * 2.04
-

*Did not play at least 500 minutes as an NBA rookie
% Rookie season did not directly follow last college season

The first thing that jumped out at me is that Okafor doesn't have a truly great season, in terms of blocked shots per 48 minutes. Of the 23 other players on the list, 18 have at least one season better than Okafor's best (barring a late run, his 2002-03 campaign). That doesn't speak particularly well for Okafor's shot-blocking. (Intriguingly, two of those five, Tim Duncan and Ben Wallace, are currently in the NBA's top five in blocks per game.) 

At the same time, there are some compelling factors in Okafor's favor. The first is his consistency. While most of the other top shot-blockers fluctuated up and down a remarkable amount, Okafor has been virtually the same outstanding shot-blocker all three years. If we sort by lowest blocks per 48 minutes during college, Okafor shoots from being ahead of five players to being behind the same number. 

Another strong argument is provided by the far right column, blocks per personal foul (for the player's last college season). This gives an idea of how the player is getting his blocks. A player with a low ratio is probably taking a lot of chances, swatting at anything and hitting the offensive player's hand for a foul as often as he blocks the shot. A player with a high ratio is taking better chances and playing smarter, and should be recognized as such. 

Only five of the players -- Keith Closs, Adonal Foyle, Roy Rogers, Wallace, and Okafor -- had at least twice as many blocks as personal fouls. Okafor, then, is getting his money's worth out of his block attempts -- something someone like Samuel Dalembert couldn't say. 

The last issue is level of competition. Yes, Closs' blocked shot totals and rates were ridiculous, but he was doing it against the Northeastern Conference -- not exactly the same as playing against the Big East night in and night out. At least a quarter of the players on that list did not play in power conferences. 

An argument, then, could be made that Okafor's shot-blocking has been as good as anyone's on that list. I'm personally partial to the trio of Dikembe Mutombo, Akeem Olajuwon, and Shaquille O'Neal, but you could go many different ways with that list. 

The best news for Okafor is that virtually everyone on that list who played regularly in the NBA was a big-time shot blocker. It's pretty clear that shot-blocking ability translates very well from the NCAA to the NBA. (Incidentally, two of the NBA's best shot-blockers in the last 20 years, Mark Eaton and Manute Bol, are notable in their absence. Eaton played just 53 minutes as a senior at UCLA before developing into the Utah Jazz's anchor in the middle, while Bol did not play D-I hoops, matriculating at D-II Bridgeport.) 

To get a better idea of how Okafor will block shots next season in the NBA, we can look at the ratio column. The 14 players with accurate ratios lost, on average, about 41% of their shot-blocking. Applying this translation to Okafor's block rate this season would mean blocking about 3.9 shots per 48 minutes as a rookie. Only three of the 14 players lost more than half of their blocked-shot rate, so it's difficult to see Okafor doing any worse than that. 3.5 blocked shots per 48 minutes would seem to be a good, conservative estimate. That could translate into 2-2.5 blocks per game, depending on minutes, an average good enough to put Okafor in the top ten of the NBA as a rookie. 

Okafor is also an outstanding rebounder. Prior to yesterday's game, he was averaging 16.7 rebounds per 48 minutes. I have a spreadsheet with college statistics for nearly all the players who went directly from the NCAA to the NBA and completed their college careers between 2000 and 2003. Only two players in this group, Drew Gooden (18.1) and Alvin Jones (17.1), had better rates. 

As Gooden's rebounding rate would attest, the translation to the NBA is not perfect, but according to my research it is pretty good. Looking at the same spreadsheet, for players with 500 NBA minutes or more, NCAA rebound rate explains nearly 80% of the variation in NBA rebound rate. That's impressive given the differences in schedule strength and usage for various players. 

That same group of players predicts that Okafor's rebound rate next season will be around 13.0 -- about the same as Yao Ming's and Kenyon Martin's. Depending again on his minutes, he can be expected to grab seven to nine rebounds a night. 

Offense is a little trickier to predict. This season, Okafor is averaging better than 19 points per game while shooting an outstanding 60.6% from the field. There were seven players between 2000-02 who entered the draft with two-point percentages of 60% or better, and they're a mixed bag -- Michael Bradley, Carlos Boozer, Robert Archibald, Stromile Swift, Jason Collins, Joel Przybilla, and Marcus Fizer. 

Boozer is my shining example of the power of college statistics, as he graded out as the top college prospect in the 2002 Draft, lofty praise that might not have been so far off. Besides for Swift, who's been a good shooter but has struggled with other areas of his game, the rest of the guys have not found much offensive success at the NBA level. 

Archibald and Collins can be written off because they used so few possessions in college, and only Fizer scored as many points per game as Okafor is. Still, the statistics are disconcerting. At the same time, while the offensive translation to the NBA may be fairly random, you'd much rather start up high than down low. It's highly doubtful that Okafor will ever be a 20-point per game scorer in the NBA or even as remarkably efficient as Boozer, but he should more than carry his weight on offense. 

Add it up and this is one case where the statistics mostly agree with the experts. While there are no sure things in the NBA Draft, Okafor is about as close as they come. It would be more surprising to me if he didn't become an NBA All-Star -- perhaps very soon, if he plays center in the East -- than if he did reach that level.


----------



## curry_52

Heres the link 
http://www.hoopsworld.com/article_7434.shtml

I did chop some stats from the other post, so you better go to hoopsworld to read the article.


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> From Hoopsworld.com
> 
> How good is Emeka Okafor?
> For the last great college NBA prospect, the hyperbole comes easily. (See, I just did it in that sentence.)
> 
> In recent weeks, I've taken to declaring Connecticut center Emeka Okafor Ben Wallace with offense (hardly an original comparison) -- high praise given that even while averaging 10 points per game on 43.1% shooting (and 49.8% from the line), Wallace is one of the NBA's most dominant big men.
> 
> Tonight, during their broadcast of UConn's victory over Seton Hall, one of ESPN's trio of announcers -- I think it was Jay Bilas, but can't recall for certain -- made the comparison between Okafor and Bill Russell, at least in terms of shot blocking.
> 
> To the hype, I can't add much, but I can attempt to provide some kind of historical perspective using statistics.
> 
> Let's begin by looking at the question of just how good Okafor's shot-blocking is in comparison to other recent players. I've taken NCAA statistics from Jazzy J's college basketball statistics site for 24 of the top shot-blockers over the last two decades, including Okafor. I admit my method was poor and I don't pretend that this is a comprehensive list. I picked some of the NBA's top current shot-blockers, a few players I knew were great shot-blockers in college, and most players with at least four blocks per game in a season the aforementioned site has leaders for (from 1990 through 1999). Here's the list:
> 
> 
> Blocks per 48
> Player College Yr Fr So Jr Sr NBA Ratio Bk/PF
> Calvin Booth Penn St 99 7.2 6.3 6.8 4.8 4.7 * 1.61
> Shawn Bradley BYU 91 8.6 - - - 5.1 % 1.62
> Kelvin Cato Iowa St 97 - - 4.9 7.1 4.5 .634 1.46
> Keith Closs Central CT St 96 8.8 9.7 - - 5.3 % 2.14
> T.Duncan Wake Forest 97 6.0 5.6 4.8 4.3 3.1 .717 1.48
> P. Ewing Georgetown 85 5.4 5.0 5.4 5.7 2.8 .488 1.24
> Adonal Foyle Colgate 97 6.6 7.5 8.2 - 3.8 .465 3.00
> Eddie Griffin Seton Hall 01 6.5 - - - 3.4 .520 1.87
> Cedric Lewis Maryland 91 4.7 4.6 5.4 7.1 - - 1.86
> Zo Mourning Georgetown 92 8.4 3.5 3.9 7.3 4.9 .673 1.39
> Mutombo Georgetown 91 - 9.6 7.7 6.7 3.7 .558 1.66
> Emeka Okafor Connecticut 04 6.5 6.8 6.7 - - - 2.03
> Olajuwon Houston 84 6.5 9.0 7.9 - 3.6 .460 1.75
> Shaquille O'Neal LSU 92 6.1 7.6 7.9 - 4.5 .569 1.83
> Theo Ratliff Wyoming 95 6.9 7.2 6.1 7.6 4.7 .563 1.52
> David Robinson Navy 87 4.8 5.7 8.4 6.2 5.1 % 1.66
> Ben Wallace VA Union 96 - - 6.2 6.1 2.7 * 2.04
> -
> 
> *Did not play at least 500 minutes as an NBA rookie
> % Rookie season did not directly follow last college season
> 
> The first thing that jumped out at me is that Okafor doesn't have a truly great season, in terms of blocked shots per 48 minutes. Of the 23 other players on the list, 18 have at least one season better than Okafor's best (barring a late run, his 2002-03 campaign). That doesn't speak particularly well for Okafor's shot-blocking. (Intriguingly, two of those five, Tim Duncan and Ben Wallace, are currently in the NBA's top five in blocks per game.)
> 
> At the same time, there are some compelling factors in Okafor's favor. The first is his consistency. While most of the other top shot-blockers fluctuated up and down a remarkable amount, Okafor has been virtually the same outstanding shot-blocker all three years. If we sort by lowest blocks per 48 minutes during college, Okafor shoots from being ahead of five players to being behind the same number.
> 
> Another strong argument is provided by the far right column, blocks per personal foul (for the player's last college season). This gives an idea of how the player is getting his blocks. A player with a low ratio is probably taking a lot of chances, swatting at anything and hitting the offensive player's hand for a foul as often as he blocks the shot. A player with a high ratio is taking better chances and playing smarter, and should be recognized as such.
> 
> Only five of the players -- Keith Closs, Adonal Foyle, Roy Rogers, Wallace, and Okafor -- had at least twice as many blocks as personal fouls. Okafor, then, is getting his money's worth out of his block attempts -- something someone like Samuel Dalembert couldn't say.
> 
> The last issue is level of competition. Yes, Closs' blocked shot totals and rates were ridiculous, but he was doing it against the Northeastern Conference -- not exactly the same as playing against the Big East night in and night out. At least a quarter of the players on that list did not play in power conferences.
> 
> An argument, then, could be made that Okafor's shot-blocking has been as good as anyone's on that list. I'm personally partial to the trio of Dikembe Mutombo, Akeem Olajuwon, and Shaquille O'Neal, but you could go many different ways with that list.
> 
> The best news for Okafor is that virtually everyone on that list who played regularly in the NBA was a big-time shot blocker. It's pretty clear that shot-blocking ability translates very well from the NCAA to the NBA. (Incidentally, two of the NBA's best shot-blockers in the last 20 years, Mark Eaton and Manute Bol, are notable in their absence. Eaton played just 53 minutes as a senior at UCLA before developing into the Utah Jazz's anchor in the middle, while Bol did not play D-I hoops, matriculating at D-II Bridgeport.)
> 
> To get a better idea of how Okafor will block shots next season in the NBA, we can look at the ratio column. The 14 players with accurate ratios lost, on average, about 41% of their shot-blocking. Applying this translation to Okafor's block rate this season would mean blocking about 3.9 shots per 48 minutes as a rookie. Only three of the 14 players lost more than half of their blocked-shot rate, so it's difficult to see Okafor doing any worse than that. 3.5 blocked shots per 48 minutes would seem to be a good, conservative estimate. That could translate into 2-2.5 blocks per game, depending on minutes, an average good enough to put Okafor in the top ten of the NBA as a rookie.
> 
> Okafor is also an outstanding rebounder. Prior to yesterday's game, he was averaging 16.7 rebounds per 48 minutes. I have a spreadsheet with college statistics for nearly all the players who went directly from the NCAA to the NBA and completed their college careers between 2000 and 2003. Only two players in this group, Drew Gooden (18.1) and Alvin Jones (17.1), had better rates.
> 
> As Gooden's rebounding rate would attest, the translation to the NBA is not perfect, but according to my research it is pretty good. Looking at the same spreadsheet, for players with 500 NBA minutes or more, NCAA rebound rate explains nearly 80% of the variation in NBA rebound rate. That's impressive given the differences in schedule strength and usage for various players.
> 
> That same group of players predicts that Okafor's rebound rate next season will be around 13.0 -- about the same as Yao Ming's and Kenyon Martin's. Depending again on his minutes, he can be expected to grab seven to nine rebounds a night.
> 
> Offense is a little trickier to predict. This season, Okafor is averaging better than 19 points per game while shooting an outstanding 60.6% from the field. There were seven players between 2000-02 who entered the draft with two-point percentages of 60% or better, and they're a mixed bag -- Michael Bradley, Carlos Boozer, Robert Archibald, Stromile Swift, Jason Collins, Joel Przybilla, and Marcus Fizer.
> 
> Boozer is my shining example of the power of college statistics, as he graded out as the top college prospect in the 2002 Draft, lofty praise that might not have been so far off. Besides for Swift, who's been a good shooter but has struggled with other areas of his game, the rest of the guys have not found much offensive success at the NBA level.
> 
> Archibald and Collins can be written off because they used so few possessions in college, and only Fizer scored as many points per game as Okafor is. Still, the statistics are disconcerting. At the same time, while the offensive translation to the NBA may be fairly random, you'd much rather start up high than down low. It's highly doubtful that Okafor will ever be a 20-point per game scorer in the NBA or even as remarkably efficient as Boozer, but he should more than carry his weight on offense.
> 
> Add it up and this is one case where the statistics mostly agree with the experts. While there are no sure things in the NBA Draft, Okafor is about as close as they come. It would be more surprising to me if he didn't become an NBA All-Star -- perhaps very soon, if he plays center in the East -- than if he did reach that level.


this is an early candidate for a bebbie for post of the month


----------



## bullet

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> From Hoopsworld.com
> 
> How good is Emeka Okafor?
> For the last great college NBA prospect, the hyperbole comes easily. (See, I just did it in that sentence.)
> 
> In recent weeks, I've taken to declaring Connecticut center Emeka Okafor Ben Wallace with offense (hardly an original comparison) -- high praise given that even while averaging 10 points per game on 43.1% shooting (and 49.8% from the line), Wallace is one of the NBA's most dominant big men.
> 
> Tonight, during their broadcast of UConn's victory over Seton Hall, one of ESPN's trio of announcers -- I think it was Jay Bilas, but can't recall for certain -- made the comparison between Okafor and Bill Russell, at least in terms of shot blocking.
> 
> To the hype, I can't add much, but I can attempt to provide some kind of historical perspective using statistics.
> 
> Let's begin by looking at the question of just how good Okafor's shot-blocking is in comparison to other recent players. I've taken NCAA statistics from Jazzy J's college basketball statistics site for 24 of the top shot-blockers over the last two decades, including Okafor. I admit my method was poor and I don't pretend that this is a comprehensive list. I picked some of the NBA's top current shot-blockers, a few players I knew were great shot-blockers in college, and most players with at least four blocks per game in a season the aforementioned site has leaders for (from 1990 through 1999). Here's the list:
> 
> 
> Blocks per 48
> Player College Yr Fr So Jr Sr NBA Ratio  Bk/PF
> Calvin Booth Penn St 99 7.2 6.3 6.8 4.8 4.7 * 1.61
> Shawn Bradley BYU 91 8.6 - - - 5.1 % 1.62
> Kelvin Cato Iowa St 97 - - 4.9 7.1 4.5 .634 1.46
> Keith Closs Central CT St 96 8.8 9.7 - - 5.3 % 2.14
> T.Duncan Wake Forest 97 6.0 5.6 4.8 4.3 3.1 .717 1.48
> P. Ewing Georgetown 85 5.4 5.0 5.4 5.7 2.8 .488 1.24
> Adonal Foyle Colgate 97 6.6 7.5 8.2 - 3.8 .465 3.00
> Eddie Griffin Seton Hall 01 6.5 - - - 3.4 .520 1.87
> Cedric Lewis Maryland 91 4.7 4.6 5.4 7.1 - - 1.86
> Zo Mourning Georgetown 92 8.4 3.5 3.9 7.3 4.9 .673 1.39
> Mutombo Georgetown 91 - 9.6 7.7 6.7 3.7 .558 1.66
> Emeka Okafor Connecticut 04 6.5 6.8 6.7 - - - 2.03
> Olajuwon Houston 84 6.5 9.0 7.9 - 3.6 .460 1.75
> Shaquille O'Neal LSU 92 6.1 7.6 7.9 - 4.5 .569 1.83
> Theo Ratliff Wyoming 95 6.9 7.2 6.1 7.6 4.7 .563 1.52
> David Robinson Navy 87 4.8 5.7 8.4 6.2 5.1 % 1.66
> Ben Wallace VA Union 96 - - 6.2 6.1 2.7 * 2.04
> -
> 
> *Did not play at least 500 minutes as an NBA rookie
> % Rookie season did not directly follow last college season
> 
> The first thing that jumped out at me is that Okafor doesn't have a truly great season, in terms of blocked shots per 48 minutes. Of the 23 other players on the list, 18 have at least one season better than Okafor's best (barring a late run, his 2002-03 campaign). That doesn't speak particularly well for Okafor's shot-blocking. (Intriguingly, two of those five, Tim Duncan and Ben Wallace, are currently in the NBA's top five in blocks per game.)
> 
> At the same time, there are some compelling factors in Okafor's favor. The first is his consistency. While most of the other top shot-blockers fluctuated up and down a remarkable amount, Okafor has been virtually the same outstanding shot-blocker all three years. If we sort by lowest blocks per 48 minutes during college, Okafor shoots from being ahead of five players to being behind the same number.
> 
> Another strong argument is provided by the far right column, blocks per personal foul (for the player's last college season). This gives an idea of how the player is getting his blocks. A player with a low ratio is probably taking a lot of chances, swatting at anything and hitting the offensive player's hand for a foul as often as he blocks the shot. A player with a high ratio is taking better chances and playing smarter, and should be recognized as such.
> 
> Only five of the players -- Keith Closs, Adonal Foyle, Roy Rogers, Wallace, and Okafor -- had at least twice as many blocks as personal fouls. Okafor, then, is getting his money's worth out of his block attempts -- something someone like Samuel Dalembert couldn't say.
> 
> The last issue is level of competition. Yes, Closs' blocked shot totals and rates were ridiculous, but he was doing it against the Northeastern Conference -- not exactly the same as playing against the Big East night in and night out. At least a quarter of the players on that list did not play in power conferences.
> 
> An argument, then, could be made that Okafor's shot-blocking has been as good as anyone's on that list. I'm personally partial to the trio of Dikembe Mutombo, Akeem Olajuwon, and Shaquille O'Neal, but you could go many different ways with that list.
> 
> The best news for Okafor is that virtually everyone on that list who played regularly in the NBA was a big-time shot blocker. It's pretty clear that shot-blocking ability translates very well from the NCAA to the NBA. (Incidentally, two of the NBA's best shot-blockers in the last 20 years, Mark Eaton and Manute Bol, are notable in their absence. Eaton played just 53 minutes as a senior at UCLA before developing into the Utah Jazz's anchor in the middle, while Bol did not play D-I hoops, matriculating at D-II Bridgeport.)
> 
> To get a better idea of how Okafor will block shots next season in the NBA, we can look at the ratio column. The 14 players with accurate ratios lost, on average, about 41% of their shot-blocking. Applying this translation to Okafor's block rate this season would mean blocking about 3.9 shots per 48 minutes as a rookie. Only three of the 14 players lost more than half of their blocked-shot rate, so it's difficult to see Okafor doing any worse than that. 3.5 blocked shots per 48 minutes would seem to be a good, conservative estimate. That could translate into 2-2.5 blocks per game, depending on minutes, an average good enough to put Okafor in the top ten of the NBA as a rookie.
> 
> Okafor is also an outstanding rebounder. Prior to yesterday's game, he was averaging 16.7 rebounds per 48 minutes. I have a spreadsheet with college statistics for nearly all the players who went directly from the NCAA to the NBA and completed their college careers between 2000 and 2003. Only two players in this group, Drew Gooden (18.1) and Alvin Jones (17.1), had better rates.
> 
> As Gooden's rebounding rate would attest, the translation to the NBA is not perfect, but according to my research it is pretty good. Looking at the same spreadsheet, for players with 500 NBA minutes or more, NCAA rebound rate explains nearly 80% of the variation in NBA rebound rate. That's impressive given the differences in schedule strength and usage for various players.
> 
> That same group of players predicts that Okafor's rebound rate next season will be around 13.0 -- about the same as Yao Ming's and Kenyon Martin's. Depending again on his minutes, he can be expected to grab seven to nine rebounds a night.
> 
> Offense is a little trickier to predict. This season, Okafor is averaging better than 19 points per game while shooting an outstanding 60.6% from the field. There were seven players between 2000-02 who entered the draft with two-point percentages of 60% or better, and they're a mixed bag -- Michael Bradley, Carlos Boozer, Robert Archibald, Stromile Swift, Jason Collins, Joel Przybilla, and Marcus Fizer.
> 
> Boozer is my shining example of the power of college statistics, as he graded out as the top college prospect in the 2002 Draft, lofty praise that might not have been so far off. Besides for Swift, who's been a good shooter but has struggled with other areas of his game, the rest of the guys have not found much offensive success at the NBA level.
> 
> Archibald and Collins can be written off because they used so few possessions in college, and only Fizer scored as many points per game as Okafor is. Still, the statistics are disconcerting. At the same time, while the offensive translation to the NBA may be fairly random, you'd much rather start up high than down low. It's highly doubtful that Okafor will ever be a 20-point per game scorer in the NBA or even as remarkably efficient as Boozer, but he should more than carry his weight on offense.
> 
> Add it up and this is one case where the statistics mostly agree with the experts. While there are no sure things in the NBA Draft, Okafor is about as close as they come. It would be more surprising to me if he didn't become an NBA All-Star -- perhaps very soon, if he plays center in the East -- than if he did reach that level.


Bravo curry 52 - great read!


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## jberg23

should the bulls draft okafor even though they have a developing tyson chandler? when chandler first came to the bulls i was hoping he would be a garnett type player. but the more i watch him play the more i could see him being a jermaine o'neal type player. o'neal didn't quite develop as quick as garnett did and i don't think that chandler is anywhere near his potential. if the bulls have the chance of taking okafor i'm looking for jimmy pax to trade either chandler or do a sign and trade with okafor. there are teams out there salivating at the thought of picking up okafor and the bulls could whip out a deal for a much needed small forward.


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## cheezdoodle

The King's Cup in Spain:

http://www.draftcity.com/0001.htm 

by Luiz Fernandez (Check out the Rudy Fernandez scouting report at the bottom as well)


curry- that was awfully nice of you to cut and paste the article, but I think that simply providing a link would have been better. I know the guy that wrote that article, he worked his *** off on that. The only way for him to get any kind of good feedback on it is for people to actually click on the link. He surely deserves it don't you agree? And the chart looks a lot better anyway in web format. If you liked that article, tell him about it at [email protected] 
He's a super nice guy and an incredibly knowledgable basketball fan. He's making about as much money off that article as we are.


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## bullet

cheezdoodle - do u have any scouting reports about Sharunas Yaskivicious and Nicola Voycic 

BTW - Your guy got my bravo EMail - well deserved,great article


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## curry_52

> Originally posted by <b>cheezdoodle</b>!
> 
> curry- that was awfully nice of you to cut and paste the article, but I think that simply providing a link would have been better.


Sorry, but I did post the article link. Maybe you missed it.


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## rlucas4257

here is the sleeper of this draft. this kids stock is shooting up big time

Martynas Andriuskevicius

He is 7-2, plays for Zalgrinis. His improvement this year has been off the chart. he is 250lbs. He has a plethora of back to the basket moves and like Dirk, a 3 point shot with a very nice stroke. This kid is this years sleeper. At the beginning of the year, he was at best a second rounder, now he is looking at possibly cracking the top 10. He has no buyout issues


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## curry_52

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> At the beginning of the year, he was at best a second rounder, now he is looking at possibly cracking the top 10. He has no buyout issues


So he isnt a sleeper any longer?


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## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> 
> 
> So he isnt a sleeper any longer?


well now that I have posted it, he isnt a sleeper. But most of the draft sites dont know much about him and dont have him on their mocks. But NBA types are flocking to see him in Lithuania. He is the kid who has been working out with Sabonis everyday


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## rlucas4257

for Curry, tell me if this scouting report on Nocioni is about right? Its from nbadraft.net

Andres Nocioni 6-7 228 SF Tau Ceramica (Argentina) 1979 -- Probably the most athletic player in Europe, his explosiveness is "Carter-esque". Best remembered for his legendary dunk on Kevin Garnett as a 17 year old. He is not a Fotsis or Bodiroga, an all-around-talent who can do everything on the court. He is an energetic player, who can give athletic presence, great hustle and defense. He is great in open court situations where he always wants to dunk. And, most importantly, he is becoming a threat from outside. He improved his shooting technique a lot. He is very confident with his shot and right now and has been hitting the J on a regular bases. He has also displayed effectiveness with his pull-up jumper and shooting off screens. He is not a pure shooter like Stojakovic but if he continues to improve he can be a legitimate NBA player.


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## rlucas4257

video on Rudy and Andres Nocioni

http://www.acb.com/acb2/D01/D01-01.jsp?id_coleccion=41&id_video=398


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## curry_52

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> for Curry, tell me if this scouting report on Nocioni is about right? Its from nbadraft.net
> 
> Andres Nocioni 6-7 228 SF Tau Ceramica (Argentina) 1979 -- Probably the most athletic player in Europe, his explosiveness is "Carter-esque". Best remembered for his legendary dunk on Kevin Garnett as a 17 year old. He is not a Fotsis or Bodiroga, an all-around-talent who can do everything on the court. He is an energetic player, who can give athletic presence, great hustle and defense. He is great in open court situations where he always wants to dunk. And, most importantly, he is becoming a threat from outside. He improved his shooting technique a lot. He is very confident with his shot and right now and has been hitting the J on a regular bases. He has also displayed effectiveness with his pull-up jumper and shooting off screens. He is not a pure shooter like Stojakovic but if he continues to improve he can be a legitimate NBA player.


Yeah, its acurrate. His explosiveness isnt Carter-esque, but he can throw down some spectacular dunks. He has lost explosion after developing his body. I mean, if you see him you will note this guy is huge, ala Ron Artest. And yes, he isnt a GREAT threat with his jumper or long range shot. If you add that the NBA 3 point line is even further from the basket, it could be a problem. But this guy is a worker, so he will adjust just fine. I think he is an NBA player and can be a solid contributor for any team. So yes, he can be a legitimate NBA player. Obviously you can add to that scouting report, but it gives you an OK idea about Nocioni.


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## curry_52

From STELIOS, a former member of the ESPN Message Board:
"I dont know if anyone else posted this but you surely know that Paxson was in Spain over the last weekend , because of the Spanish Cup Final 4. I read on today's papers that Paxson was there for Argentinian forward Andres Nocioni , who plays for Tau Ceramica , one of the top4 euro teams. Jerry West is also interested in Nocioni. Paxson stated that he is impressed with Nocioni and he wants him on his team. He also said that he has two more options from Spain : Anderson Varehao and Kristian Drier although these two are not of the same caliber as Nocioni. 
Nocioni has a contract with Tau until June 2006 and i also read that Jerry West inquired about him last yr and Tau asked for 12 million euros !!!!! 
By the way, Tau won the Cup for the second yr in a row and Nocioni scored 20 pts for them. Leading scorer with 22pts was Luis Scola , another Argentinian who was drafted by Spurs in 2002 and they still hold his rights. So Paxson and many other NBA scouters have their eyes on Nocioni and his selection in this year's NBA draft is a certainty."


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## cheezdoodle

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> 
> 
> Sorry, but I did post the article link. Maybe you missed it.


No I saw it, but you still ripped off his article. Some people may have clicked it, but he lost some hits by you posting it here instead of linking it. Just have a little respect, the guy worked his *** of for free so you could read that, the least you can do is give him a link. Not to mention that that is this website's policy anyway. 

Bullet: We are working on getting in scouting reports for those over-22 guys. I could write some stuff up myself since I own many tapes of Maccabi Tel Aviv games, but I have at least 10 draft prospects to do before I can get to that. Instead, I have someone from Israel working on Sharas and Vujcic. I'll tell you when they are up.


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## curry_52

I would pay if someone could find Nocioni's dunk over KG and co.


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## curry_52

While I was trying to find the video, I came across with this quotes (LMAO):


The highlight of the second half was the dunk by Nocioni, who drove around Garnett on the baseline and went under the basket for a reverse slam over the outstretched arms of the two 7-footers.
The crowd went wild, giving Nocioni an extended standing ovation. Even Garnett and Duncan appreciated the move, smiling broadly as they walked off the court during the ensuing timeout.
''He might make the NBA off that dunk, you never know,'' Garnett said. ''Everybody has moments in their life that make them, and I hope that was his moment that puts him on the map.''
Said Duncan: ''That made his day, made his week, made his life.''
Garnett seemed a tad embarrassed to be on the wrong end of the play.
''In the field of dunking, you dunk on and you get dunked on. It was good for the crowd, so I thought it was good for the game of basketball. He gained respect,'' Garnett said. ''He got his highlight, but I told him the next time I would try to break his wrist.''

:laugh:


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## curry_52

The Nets aren't certain of Nenad Krstic's best position. They don't know exactly when he will be a part of the regular rotation. But they are certain of one thing: they've got something special in their 2002 first-rounder. 

"Since we drafted him, he's improved on the offensive end. He's got a good low post game," said Nets VP of Basketball Operations Ed Stefanski, who joined the team here after a European scouting trip. "We know what we've got. He's got to get stronger. He's not a real good rebounder right now, but you're excited because he is a seven-footer and he's got skills." 


Krstic, 7-0, who figures to come over next season, is shooting .608 and averaging 13.4 points for Partizan Belgrade. Asked if Krstic is a center or power forward, Stefanski said, "good question. Maybe he's both." 

http://www.nypost.com/sports/nets/16831.htm


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## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> The Nets aren't certain of Nenad Krstic's best position. They don't know exactly when he will be a part of the regular rotation. But they are certain of one thing: they've got something special in their 2002 first-rounder.
> 
> "Since we drafted him, he's improved on the offensive end. He's got a good low post game," said Nets VP of Basketball Operations Ed Stefanski, who joined the team here after a European scouting trip. "We know what we've got. He's got to get stronger. He's not a real good rebounder right now, but you're excited because he is a seven-footer and he's got skills."
> 
> 
> Krstic, 7-0, who figures to come over next season, is shooting .608 and averaging 13.4 points for Partizan Belgrade. Asked if Krstic is a center or power forward, Stefanski said, "good question. Maybe he's both."
> 
> http://www.nypost.com/sports/nets/16831.htm


I have seen a ton of this kid, usually lighting up some other kid that I might be interested in. And this kid is good. He is Divacs protege, and you can tell. He plays the high post the same way, and he is tricky with his D. His passing is off the charts. His body isnt going to hold up against the real physical 5s and 4s in the NBA, but his skill level is very high. Nice pick by NJ. I fully expect NJ to go the euro route again in this draft. Kristic and Plannicic are good prospects. In fact, Plannicic, when given a chance (with Jason Kidd in front of you, it doesnt happen that often) has been impressive. if i were doing a mock draft, id have them taking a long look at whatever Euro swingman is available at their pick


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## curry_52

From David Aldridge:

"And I think you'll certainly see Phoenix take one of the young high school bigs coming out in the draft."

"I hear that Charlotte likes Shawn Livingston, the high school point out of Illinois. At number four, that wouldn't be a bad pick for them. "


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## rlucas4257

From Insider

There was a junior tournament last week. Pavel had 31 pts and 20 bds. Scouts came away hugely impressed. 

Martynas in the same tournament measured 7-3 now. He had a 20 pt 18 bd game

I heard from another source outside of Insider that Johan Petro was the best player there. He is a name to keep an eye out for next year. Nemanja Aleksandrov didnt play

Also, Rudy is on the rise. One scout said he could be a "devasting offensive player in the NBA". Another said he is the "best spanish prospect since Pau Gasol". I expect to hear his name called in the lottery on draft day

Thought I would just pass this along


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## superdave

rlucas, I really like NBADraft.net's eval of Martynas Andriuskevicius:

http://www.nbadraft.net/profiles/martynasandriuskevicius.asp

a 7-2 big man who can block shots, pass, and has 'exceptional athleticism'?! Sabonis must be rubbing off on this guy. He would be a nice fit alongside Curry.

On a sad note, I really really really think scouts are overrating Shaun Livingston. JMO. And Ryan Gomes is apparently going undrafted b/c he was left out of the latest mock.


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>superdave</b>!
> rlucas, I really like NBADraft.net's eval of Martynas Andriuskevicius:
> 
> http://www.nbadraft.net/profiles/martynasandriuskevicius.asp
> 
> a 7-2 big man who can block shots, pass, and has 'exceptional athleticism'?! Sabonis must be rubbing off on this guy. He would be a nice fit alongside Curry.
> 
> On a sad note, I really really really think scouts are overrating Shaun Livingston. JMO. And Ryan Gomes is apparently going undrafted b/c he was left out of the latest mock.


This Martynas kid is this years out of nowhere pick. Word is his back to the basket game is really polished and he can knock down the 3 on the pick and spot play.

I wouldnt worry about Gomes. I just dont think they think he is coming out. If he is there, he is a first round pick. Even if he is a bit of a tweener

Livingston stock just keeps rising. 6-7 PGs who remind people of early years Penny hardaway are just so hard to come by. If he is in the ballpark as to the comparison then he is a find. He looked good in the tape that I saw

Draft pages up to 50 pages. Great job guys


----------



## superdave

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> This Martynas kid is this years out of nowhere pick. Word is his back to the basket game is really polished and he can knock down the 3 on the pick and spot play.
> 
> I wouldnt worry about Gomes. I just dont think they think he is coming out. If he is there, he is a first round pick. Even if he is a bit of a tweener
> 
> Livingston stock just keeps rising. 6-7 PGs who remind people of early years Penny hardaway are just so hard to come by. If he is in the ballpark as to the comparison then he is a find. He looked good in the tape that I saw
> 
> Draft pages up to 50 pages. Great job guys


Fair enough. Its just that I see more DeMarr Johnson than anything else. In fact, I'd rate DeMarr's frosh year at Cincy better than the couple times I've seen Livingston. The 6'7" PG thing is such a novelty in my mind, he'll get abused his first few years in the pros IMO.

Keep posting what you hear/see about Martynas rlucas, because... quite literally he came out of nowhere and is now in the top10 radar. And yes, for the record I would not be against taking a PF/C type in this year's draft. You take the best player availalbe, you roll the dice, you try to lock up a franchise talent. That's what the draft <i>should</i> be about.

I hope Bulls fans can rid themselves of the 'we absolutely need a 3 so lets get the best available' mentality. If you can draft a superior talent, you have to do it. Make changes and plug in holes later.


----------



## Darius Miles Davis

> Originally posted by <b>superdave</b>!
> 
> 
> Fair enough. Its just that I see more DeMarr Johnson than anything else. In fact, I'd rate DeMarr's frosh year at Cincy better than the couple times I've seen Livingston. The 6'7" PG thing is such a novelty in my mind, he'll get abused his first few years in the pros IMO.
> 
> Keep posting what you hear/see about Martynas rlucas, because... quite literally he came out of nowhere and is now in the top10 radar. And yes, for the record I would not be against taking a PF/C type in this year's draft. You take the best player availalbe, you roll the dice, you try to lock up a franchise talent. That's what the draft <i>should</i> be about.
> 
> I hope Bulls fans can rid themselves of the 'we absolutely need a 3 so lets get the best available' mentality. If you can draft a superior talent, you have to do it. Make changes and plug in holes later.


But if they do that, they have to then actually be willing to move around players on their roster to alleviate logjams.


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>superdave</b>!
> 
> 
> Fair enough. Its just that I see more DeMarr Johnson than anything else. In fact, I'd rate DeMarr's frosh year at Cincy better than the couple times I've seen Livingston. The 6'7" PG thing is such a novelty in my mind, he'll get abused his first few years in the pros IMO.
> 
> Keep posting what you hear/see about Martynas rlucas, because... quite literally he came out of nowhere and is now in the top10 radar. And yes, for the record I would not be against taking a PF/C type in this year's draft. You take the best player availalbe, you roll the dice, you try to lock up a franchise talent. That's what the draft <i>should</i> be about.
> 
> I hope Bulls fans can rid themselves of the 'we absolutely need a 3 so lets get the best available' mentality. If you can draft a superior talent, you have to do it. Make changes and plug in holes later.


This weekend im off to see Andris Biendrinns in the very exotic Estonian league. I am hoping to see this Martynas kid in 2 weekends. I havent seen him before, but the people who have are just blown away by the similarity of him to his mentor, Sabonis. I like the fact that his reputation says he is very mobile and that he might be a 7-3 4 in the NBA. very skilled. Sounds like what we wish Tyson Chandler would be. But we will see. Again, I havent seen him, and it would be foolhardy of me to "hype" a kid I dont know anything about. But when you hear the things that I have heard, its hard not to be a little excited about his prospects. But I still wouldnt want to be the guy trying to pronounce his name. Heck, I have given up trying to spell it. 

I just hope Pax Eurotizes this team a little bit. I dont think that is an unfair thing to say when I watch the sets Sacramento runs as the cleanest offense since the 98 Bulls


----------



## cheezdoodle

> Originally posted by <b>superdave</b>!
> rlucas, I really like NBADraft.net's eval of Martynas Andriuskevicius:
> 
> http://www.nbadraft.net/profiles/martynasandriuskevicius.asp
> 
> a 7-2 big man who can block shots, pass, and has 'exceptional athleticism'?! Sabonis must be rubbing off on this guy. He would be a nice fit alongside Curry.
> 
> On a sad note, I really really really think scouts are overrating Shaun Livingston. JMO. And Ryan Gomes is apparently going undrafted b/c he was left out of the latest mock.


I think people need to relax a little with the Sabonis stuff. This kid does not even technically play on the same team with Arvydas, he is on the Junior squad while Sabonis is on the Senior team. He may have gotten a chance to work with him a couple of times this year, but he's not working out everyday with him like people make it out to be (a big reason why people are so high on him). Someone I know that goes to almost every single youth tournament in Europe basically told us on Realgm that although he's talented and has a lot of potential he's not as polished as people are making him out to be and that the chances of him declaring this year are not very high. The kid just said himself a month ago that the chances are very small that he will declare this year.


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>cheezdoodle</b>!
> 
> 
> I think people need to relax a little with the Sabonis stuff. This kid does not even technically play on the same team with Arvydas, he is on the Junior squad while Sabonis is on the Senior team. He may have gotten a chance to work with him a couple of times this year, but he's not working out everyday with him like people make it out to be (a big reason why people are so high on him). Someone I know that goes to almost every single youth tournament in Europe basically told us on Realgm that although he's talented and has a lot of potential he's not as polished as people are making him out to be and that the chances of him declaring this year are not very high. The kid just said himself a month ago that the chances are very small that he will declare this year.


While I havent seem him first hand, the guy I have is a name we all know who would dispute almost all of this. Word is Sabonis does work with him all day


----------



## bullet

We talk about picking Okafur all the time but tend to forgetthat even if we finish with worst or 2nd worst position there is still a good chance we don't get picks 1-3.
this season it means we only get the 5th pisk since Bobcats allready got 4th pick.
If we assume Emeka,Howard,Josh smith and Deng get picked (If Deng stays in Duke then Livingston) what do we do?

do we trade down?do we pick Iguodala?

we can try and trade with Memphis who would love Pavel - lets say for Battier.
I say maybe trade down with a team like Utah(unless we can get a sf alla Battier) for a few Lower picks(like NJ did with Houston 2001) and maybe future picks - Pax says he's rebuilding(again).
rlucas - u probably know I say we can trade down and get Kris Humphries!!


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>bullet</b>!
> We talk about picking Okafur all the time but tend to forgetthat even if we finish with worst or 2nd worst position there is still a good chance we don't get picks 1-3.
> this season it means we only get the 5th pisk since Bobcats allready got 4th pick.
> If we assume Emeka,Howard,Josh smith and Deng get picked (If Deng stays in Duke then Livingston) what do we do?
> 
> do we trade down?do we pick Iguodala?
> 
> we can try and trade with Memphis who would love Pavel - lets say for Battier.
> I say maybe trade down with a team like Utah(unless we can get a sf alla Battier) for a few Lower picks(like NJ did with Houston 2001) and maybe future picks - Pax says he's rebuilding(again).
> rlucas - u probably know I say we can trade down and get Kris Humphries!!


I watched Kris Humphries play, and he just looks like a tweener to me. Id stay away from him. We need spacing and another ball handling option at the 3 and these are things Humphries cant provide. If we were looking for another JYD (I wish we didnt have one JYD) id say take him. He is tough and talented, but if he comes to the Bulls, he will end up where Marcus Fizer ended up. But there is a spot for Humphries somewhere in the NBA. And in the right spot he could become a nice player, but it isnt in Chicago


----------



## bullet

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> I watched Kris Humphries play, and he just looks like a tweener to me. Id stay away from him. We need spacing and another ball handling option at the 3 and these are things Humphries cant provide. If we were looking for another JYD (I wish we didnt have one JYD) id say take him. He is tough and talented, but if he comes to the Bulls, he will end up where Marcus Fizer ended up. But there is a spot for Humphries somewhere in the NBA. And in the right spot he could become a nice player, but it isnt in Chicago


A tweener - OK , we'll wait and see,maybe.

But there is nothing to do with JYD - he has so much more on offense,tons more.

in fact,i'd put my money (well,just a little bit) on him being the 2nd best player in turms of instant impact in this draft - after Emeka.No impact players out there.


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>bullet</b>!
> 
> 
> A tweener - OK , we'll wait and see,maybe.
> 
> But there is nothing to do with JYD - he has so much more on offense,tons more.
> 
> in fact,i'd put my money (well,just a little bit) on him being the 2nd best player in turms of instant impact in this draft - after Emeka.No impact players out there.


I 100% disagree. No one can say with a straight face that Deng isnt an impact player, Igoudala is an impact player. I saw a guy yesterday who might be in Andris Biedrins. This is a way to lowball this group by saying no impact players. And the HSers in this crop are good. Very good. And Pax closed the door on them already. Id say Humphries is going to be good, but certainly nothing special. He is a real tweener.


----------



## rlucas4257

bullett, I apologize for my tone


----------



## curry_52

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> I 100% disagree. No one can say with a straight face that Deng isnt an impact player, Igoudala is an impact player. I saw a guy yesterday who might be in Andris Biedrins. This is a way to lowball this group by saying no impact players. And the HSers in this crop are good. Very good. And Pax closed the door on them already. Id say Humphries is going to be good, but certainly nothing special. He is a real tweener.


Bullet was discussing INSTANT impact, being able to put the numbers from day 1. He didnt say Deng or the HS players wont be impact players in the NBA, he said that after Okafor, Humphries is the most NBA ready player and the one that will probably contribute the most to its team success early on.


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> 
> 
> Bullet was discussing INSTANT impact, being able to put the numbers from day 1. He didnt say Deng or the HS players wont be impact players in the NBA, he said that after Okafor, Humphries is the most NBA ready player and the one that will probably contribute the most to its team success early on.


Yes Curry, I read that. And understood it. And i think, with all due respect to Bullet, that its a joke. Deng, Igoudala, and others will have a far more INSTANT impact then Humphries. Thats not to say Kris wont emerge as a nice player eventually but on day one, he is going to find himself to slow to guard 3s and too small to score over real 4s.


----------



## curry_52

From the Sun-Times

*Scouts are buzzing about 19-year-old Pavel Podkolzine, a 7-5, 305-pound Russian center who is playing for Metis Varese in Italy.

He's expected to enter the NBA draft this summer, and insiders say the Cavaliers would love to have him as a backup to Ilgauskas or a replacement if Ilgauskas leaves as a free agent when his contract expires next season. But to some skeptics, Podkolzine looks more like the second coming of Darko Milicic, who was taken by the Pistons with the second pick in the 2003 draft and has barely played for Detroit.



From the LA Times:
Now, NBA scouts find themselves at high school games, such as the recent Pangos Tournament at Pauley Pavilion, which featured 6-foot-10 Dwight Howard, a prep from Atlanta, and the hot Brooklyn point guard, Sebastian Telfair, in front of an announced 6,000, mostly agents and posses.

The scouts then go back to the office and give the speech every general manager tired of long ago: "I haven't seen a guy who's ready to be an NBA player in two weeks."

This year's best prospects are 6-9 Connecticut junior Emeka Okafor and Howard.

Howard is bigger, more athletic, has a higher upside and would be the choice of the Atlanta Hawks, who see him as their LeBron James, the Cleveland-area prep who turned the Cavaliers around.

However, the 6-9 (hopefully) Okafor is ready to make a difference now, which is why he might be the choice of such teams as the Chicago Bulls and Orlando Magic, which aren't into five-years plans.

Other teams don't know what they'd do. Last week, the general manager of a lottery team said, "I hope we don't get the No. 1 pick."

That's one you don't hear every day. The GMs aren't crazy about this new draft, either, because they're not assured of still having their jobs in the three seasons it takes a Kwame Brown to start playing a little.


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> From the Sun-Times
> 
> *Scouts are buzzing about 19-year-old Pavel Podkolzine, a 7-5, 305-pound Russian center who is playing for Metis Varese in Italy.
> 
> He's expected to enter the NBA draft this summer, and insiders say the Cavaliers would love to have him as a backup to Ilgauskas or a replacement if Ilgauskas leaves as a free agent when his contract expires next season. But to some skeptics, Podkolzine looks more like the second coming of Darko Milicic, who was taken by the Pistons with the second pick in the 2003 draft and has barely played for Detroit.
> 
> 
> 
> From the LA Times:
> Now, NBA scouts find themselves at high school games, such as the recent Pangos Tournament at Pauley Pavilion, which featured 6-foot-10 Dwight Howard, a prep from Atlanta, and the hot Brooklyn point guard, Sebastian Telfair, in front of an announced 6,000, mostly agents and posses.
> 
> The scouts then go back to the office and give the speech every general manager tired of long ago: "I haven't seen a guy who's ready to be an NBA player in two weeks."
> 
> This year's best prospects are 6-9 Connecticut junior Emeka Okafor and Howard.
> 
> Howard is bigger, more athletic, has a higher upside and would be the choice of the Atlanta Hawks, who see him as their LeBron James, the Cleveland-area prep who turned the Cavaliers around.
> 
> However, the 6-9 (hopefully) Okafor is ready to make a difference now, which is why he might be the choice of such teams as the Chicago Bulls and Orlando Magic, which aren't into five-years plans.
> 
> Other teams don't know what they'd do. Last week, the general manager of a lottery team said, "I hope we don't get the No. 1 pick."
> 
> That's one you don't hear every day. The GMs aren't crazy about this new draft, either, because they're not assured of still having their jobs in the three seasons it takes a Kwame Brown to start playing a little.


Thats not what the article said, in terms of the last sentence. What it said is that if you are expected to win now, as you are in Orlando or Chicago (we should just give up and realize its a minimum of 2 years before we are any good), then this draft is pretty scary. But in 2-4 years, this draft has a lot of guys who could become very good NBA players. Depends on your teams expectations. I am sure whoever the GM in Atlanta is is happy with this crop, cause theres lot of potential. But Pax and Gabriel are under the win now mantra, and it scares the crap out of them. Depends on who you are. But to say this is a weak draft is just plain silly


----------



## bullet

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> bullett, I apologize for my tone


Cmon rlucas - No harm - no need to apologize,really.
nothing wrong with the tone,nothing wrong disagreeing (like in Pietrus=Pree issue,I thought u were mad at me,hope not)

and like Curry said - I meant impact from day one - U know i like Deng and Iguodala,but while the 1st might stay in Duke and it won't hurt him,the 2nd will take time to adjust to the league play.

Kris Humphries is a good offensive player,and has a ready body at 19.I think it mostly depends what team he goes to,if he sees playing time.I'm not saying it's a bad stock,I'm just saying with all the euro players and highschoolers most of them r not day 1 impact.

And of course - it only my opinion,that Humphries is that good.
Tweener is not always bad (Barkley - with no comparison of course).

BTW - Luke Jackson IMO is also a guy I think might have impact right away - the thing with him if picked late 1st round he'd play for a good team (probably) and see a lot of the bench mostly.

Oh and BTW - r u 6-7???


----------



## truebluefan

okafor: Bad back??










*Emeka Okafor is questionable due to tightness in his back. (AP)*

http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaab

That is all that was said about it.


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>bullet</b>!
> 
> 
> Cmon rlucas - No harm - no need to apologize,really.
> nothing wrong with the tone,nothing wrong disagreeing (like in Pietrus=Pree issue,I thought u were mad at me,hope not)
> 
> and like Curry said - I meant impact from day one - U know i like Deng and Iguodala,but while the 1st might stay in Duke and it won't hurt him,the 2nd will take time to adjust to the league play.
> 
> Kris Humphries is a good offensive player,and has a ready body at 19.I think it mostly depends what team he goes to,if he sees playing time.I'm not saying it's a bad stock,I'm just saying with all the euro players and highschoolers most of them r not day 1 impact.
> 
> And of course - it only my opinion,that Humphries is that good.
> Tweener is not always bad (Barkley - with no comparison of course).
> 
> BTW - Luke Jackson IMO is also a guy I think might have impact right away - the thing with him if picked late 1st round he'd play for a good team (probably) and see a lot of the bench mostly.
> 
> Oh and BTW - r u 6-7???


Bullet, again, i reread my post and sounded like I was barking at you. and that was just plain wrong of me. So i felt the need to apologize. Your a respected poster, by me atleast, and I dont want to come across sounding like an ***. So I apologize again

I am 6-6 1/2 actually, 230 lbs. Maybe with sneakers I make the 6-7 height. 

Luke Jackson is a name that comes up alot. frankly, I know nothing about him. Give me some color when you get a chance

And your right, being a tweener can work to your advantage sometimes. barkley and rodman were tweeners that made it and made it big. In the backcourt, Dumars was a tweener who was outstanding. But on the other end are guys like Rodney Monroe, and Kenny Walker, etc. 

Is Minny good enough to make the NCAAs? if so, I think that will give me more clarity on Humphries. I havent followed the standings too closely so I do hope to see more of him.


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>truebluefan</b>!
> okafor: Bad back??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Emeka Okafor is questionable due to tightness in his back. (AP)*
> 
> http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaab
> 
> That is all that was said about it.


It has been acting up on him alot lately. And frankly, it scares me


----------



## truebluefan

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> It has been acting up on him alot lately. And frankly, it scares me


That scares me too.


----------



## bullet

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> Yes Curry, I read that. And understood it. And i think, with all due respect to Bullet, that its a joke. Deng, Igoudala, and others will have a far more INSTANT impact then Humphries. Thats not to say Kris wont emerge as a nice player eventually but on day one, he is going to find himself to slow to guard 3s and too small to score over real 4s.


But with Deng it's a gamble he comes out,and Iguodala is not a tweener - the Body of a sg and the offense of a 4.

don't get me wrong,i like both of them,and probably pick them b4 Humphries due to potential (deng for sure - if out).

I disagree Kris is to slow guarding the sf position - from what i see he's WAY quicker and faster than Artest (who has no problem there) and can out muscle and Bang (and likes to do that) most SF's.

I don't think he'd have a problem scoring over PF's as well (no white man desease),he can finish over or before they make it to him.the combination of speed and Power is there.

the problem he might have is scoring from the outside,at sf position,though he has shown great improvment from the 3 throughout the season.


----------



## bullet

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> Bullet, again, i reread my post and sounded like I was barking at you. and that was just plain wrong of me. So i felt the need to apologize. Your a respected poster, by me atleast, and I dont want to come across sounding like an ***. So I apologize again
> 
> I am 6-6 1/2 actually, 230 lbs. Maybe with sneakers I make the 6-7 height.
> 
> Luke Jackson is a name that comes up alot. frankly, I know nothing about him. Give me some color when you get a chance
> 
> And your right, being a tweener can work to your advantage sometimes. barkley and rodman were tweeners that made it and made it big. In the backcourt, Dumars was a tweener who was outstanding. But on the other end are guys like Rodney Monroe, and Kenny Walker, etc.
> 
> Is Minny good enough to make the NCAAs? if so, I think that will give me more clarity on Humphries. I havent followed the standings too closely so I do hope to see more of him.


6-7,wow,and i thought i'm big at 6-4!

I bet if we make posters team we can beat the Portland forum with our size 

I've seen Luke Jackson 3 full games (not a lot but enough) and he seems to have all the moves on offense - from shooting the 3p,midrange,slashing (dunks strong),passing and finishing many ways around the hoop.if he plays the 2,he'd have foot quickness problem on D,but good enough size to give his guy some room.
he plays intense both sides,so even if he plays guys like T-Mac he will try(unlike some bulls),maybe not succeed,but try.
Good leader for a med college team,does it all there.

and back to humphries - sometimes(but not too often) a very good player comes out of a terrible college,like the guy we picked at 5 (traded for to be accurate) at 1988 - i thought he turned out just fine 

about the coming draft - I'm with u,there r some guys who'd turnout being allstars no doubt,I just think most of the really good ones coming out will emerge like J.Oneal or Al Harrington - it might take them some time.BTW - my thought right now is that Deng chooses to stay,but who knows???


----------



## truebluefan

Okafor should not be playing today. He does not look the same. He can't move and can't jump!


----------



## bullet

whats Okafur's Injury - is it only spazm,because it's becoming chronical , or is he known to have a more serious problem???


----------



## ThatBlazerGuy

hey rlucas4257, could you give me some info on Biedrinis. I really wanna know about his game....


----------



## truebluefan

> Originally posted by <b>bullet</b>!
> whats Okafur's Injury - is it only spazm,because it's becoming chronical , or is he known to have a more serious problem???


Tightening with his back. Said it has been a problem since the third game of the season.


----------



## bullet

> Originally posted by <b>truebluefan</b>!
> 
> 
> Tightening with his back. Said it has been a problem since the third game of the season.


3rd game?!

How did he put those numbers with sore back??

still,sounds bad,teams might backup from him with back problems...


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>truebluefan</b>!
> Okafor should not be playing today. He does not look the same. He can't move and can't jump!


I hate when guys try to play through pain. If you can contribute, then you ought to play. if your just going to be a detriment, then you need to put the team first and sit. I didnt see Okafor play today, but it sounds like it didnt go well.


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>ThatBlazerGuy</b>!
> hey rlucas4257, could you give me some info on Biedrinis. I really wanna know about his game....


Hey blazerguy

He is far more skilled then I thought. A little like Dirk/KG offensively. Nice range, can handle it and has atleast 2 polishes post moves. His defense is good. 

a couple of notes. He plays in a very soft league. so its just hard to tell. But he is 18 years old and not doing poorly. Another thing, I hate his body. I mean, he is going to kid pushed around in the NBA. and he has very narrow shoulders which leads me to believe that he isnt going to be very strong. But then again, Gasol has roughly the same body (plus about 2 inches is my guess) and has done very well

All in all, he is a bit of a project, but he will be a player in the NBA. Maybe middle of 2nd year he will be a contributer and be a legit starter in year 3. Something like that is what I see. But there is some upside there


----------



## ThatBlazerGuy

Does he have the ability/height to play C. I hear he is 6'11 and still growing from some people, and others say he is only 6'10 and has stopped growing.......






Also, what other european prospects have you seen?


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>ThatBlazerGuy</b>!
> Does he have the ability/height to play C. I hear he is 6'11 and still growing from some people, and others say he is only 6'10 and has stopped growing.......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, what other european prospects have you seen?


He is a solid 6-11. As for playing Center. it depends. He just doesnt have the strength to play Shaq or Curry or Yao on a day to day basis. Even a Jerome James would muscle him. But none of those guys have the mobility to play this guy outside either. In that way, he is like a real name from the past, Jerry Lucas. I dont think he will ever put on the muscle to be a strong 5, or even 4 in the NBA, but his skill level is such that it might not matter that he has the muscle to play that spot

As for the euro prospects, I have seen them all either live or on tape. There is only 2 guys that I havent seen (one i am seeing next weekend) that I think are first round picks next year. Martynas and Rudy Fernandez. So outside of those 2 guys, I might be able to help in reports. And after next week, I hope to have a better feel for Martynas


----------



## rlucas4257

my last post was the 10,000 hit. Great job guys


----------



## bullet

KG's shoulders r quite narrow - pau like sounds good,especially if he plays better D than Pau.

10000


----------



## rlucas4257

Marvin Williams is leaning towards coming out? i have heard alot of good things about him. Oh thats right, our GM doesnt pick HS kids. If we trade down, Williams would be a nice project to have


----------



## dsouljah9

I know that he committed to UNC but hey, it's up to him.


----------



## ThatBlazerGuy

rlucas4257, do u have any online videos of european players u could send me via. e-mail.......

my e-mail addrss is vsisa*****@hotmail.com


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>ThatBlazerGuy</b>!
> rlucas4257, do u have any online videos of european players u could send me via. e-mail.......
> 
> my e-mail addrss is vsisa*****@hotmail.com


actually, if you scroll through this thread, there is a ton of Josh Smith stuff, there is some rudy fernandez and Andres Nocioni stuff. I will try and dig up some others, PM your email address and ill get it to you. Though Hotmail might not be able to hold the files


----------



## curry_52

Lottery needs and players:

Chicago Bulls
A Franchise Player: The Bulls have a lot of talent, but no one worth building the club around. The High Schooler experiment has turned them away from the hot "Schoolers" this year, so now we're talking Okafor, Nelson and possibly Josh Childress. Question is would the Bulls be willing to pack this pick and a player for a bigger name this summer? Most around the club say they do not want to miss the playoffs next year and their roster needs help now, not in two or three seasons. With no instant stars in this class, the Bulls may pass this pick down a few slots and get a veteran and a prospect versus another project.

http://www.hoopsworld.com/article_7506.shtml


----------



## dsouljah9

I have no problems trading the pick for a good quality player like a Mike Dunleavy or whomever we could get by trading the pick as long as we aren't getting fleeced in the process.


----------



## cheezdoodle

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> Lottery needs and players:
> 
> Chicago Bulls
> A Franchise Player: The Bulls have a lot of talent, but no one worth building the club around. The High Schooler experiment has turned them away from the hot "Schoolers" this year, so now we're talking Okafor, Nelson and possibly Josh Childress. Question is would the Bulls be willing to pack this pick and a player for a bigger name this summer? Most around the club say they do not want to miss the playoffs next year and their roster needs help now, not in two or three seasons. With no instant stars in this class, the Bulls may pass this pick down a few slots and get a veteran and a prospect versus another project.
> 
> http://www.hoopsworld.com/article_7506.shtml


This guy is such a tool. He's never watched a college basketball game in his life, but every year around draft time, he suddenly becomes a draft expert. I thought he would give up after last year when he was telling everyone that Jarvis Hayes does nothing well and that Kirk Hinrich will be a bust. 

He honestly thinks that Jameer Nelson has a chance of being draft 2nd after all. Earlier in the week they were talking over there about how LaMarcus Aldridge could go 4th overall, now Bskball is chiming in that he would take Telfair. But get this, in the next sentence he says that Luol Deng "would need time to develop" :laugh: 
"An AI/Telfiar backcourt? Sick!" Nevermind that neither of them are a lick over 6 feet tall. 

This is a classic example of a journalist who calls going over to nbadraft.net research. It's sad but the majority of writers nowadays are like this. They don't have time to actually watch the draft prospects, but that doesn't stop them from opening their hole and spewing 2nd hand hype anyway. 

BTW, if I hear the world "schooler" one more time I will kill someone I swear.


----------



## curry_52

> Originally posted by <b>GB</b>!
> This thread sucks.
> 
> :sour:


:rocket: 

:upset:


----------



## curry_52

Tiago Splitter Interview:


You are one of the most talked about draft prospects this year. Are you aware of all that?

TS: Yeah, well. I know there is a lot of speculation about me, but I don't worry much about that. Right now, I'm really fine in Europe.

What are your plans regarding the draft?

TS: Right know, I don't know yet. It depends on my agent and it also depends on how I play this season.

And what's your agent's advice?

TS: Right know -- the way things have gone this season -- I think I'm not going to declare. But well... If things change, I may change my mind.

What would you do if they give you a guarantee that you will be a lottery pick in the draft?

TS: I would have to look at it. The thing is, I have a contract with my team Tau Ceramica, and I would have to pay a buyout. But if I was a lottery pick and it was a good situation money-wise and I could afford to pay the buyout

http://www.hoopshype.com/interviews/splitter_sierra.htm

Top 5? Where is Splitter in our wishlist? I wonder if Pax knows about this guy given that he is a reserve and plays limited minutes. My guess is No. But it would be a great consolation prize for many teams that dont crack the top 2 (Emeka - Howard). Boston could really use someone like Splitter, but not now. Perkins/Splitter frontcourt?


----------



## curry_52

Josh Smith: In or Out?

Smith was certainly worth the drive. This season he averaged 22.3 points and 8.4 rebounds, blocked 224 shots and collected 187 assists for 38-0 Oak Hill, the nation's No. 1 high school team according to USA Today. Such gaudy numbers on a team loaded with talent is why Smith is a consensus Top 5 high school player, why he will play in three national all-star games this postseason, including the McDonald's game with fellow IU recruit D.J. White, and why he is drawing comparisons to some of the NBA's top players.

"Athletically, he's a Vince Carter type," said Oak Hill coach Steve Smith, who lured Smith to the academy from Powder Springs, Ga. "He's 6-9 and left-handed. He blocks shots and dunks all over the place. He does all those exciting, high-flying things, a guy who is exciting to watch."Davis had a close eye on Smith two weekends ago, when the coach made a trip to North Carolina for Oak Hill's season finale. The coach spoke at length with Smith afterward, but came out of the conversation still clueless as to where Smith was leaning.

http://www.southbendtribune.com/sto...20040308-sbt-MICH-B1-Hoosier_recruit_Smit.sto


----------



## curry_52

Okafor may miss Big East Tournamet:

Connecticut will move "very carefully" in determining center Emeka Okafor's availability for the Big East tournament this week in the hopes of increasing his chances of playing in the NCAA Tournament.

Okafor, who's been suffering from back spasms all season, had an MRI on Monday. Results were not immediately available.

He will make the trip to New York for the Big East tournament. The coaching staff discussed keeping him out of the event, and whether he plays will not be determined until Thursday. UConn likely will be either a No. 2 or No. 3 seed in the NCAA Tournament; the conference tournament should not affect its seeding.

Okafor, an ESPN.com first team All-American and leading candidate for national player of the year honors, is averaging 18.7 points, 11.5 rebounds and 4.5 blocked shots a game.


http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=1754276


----------



## smARTmouf

josh smith....vince carter hops??..hmmmm...although that picture doesnt show me this freakish vertical...that sort of athleticism is what the bulls need...when mcgrady came into the league...all he was known for was his athleticism...now look at him

i'm just saying...this kid josh smith or igoudella(whatever) should be high on our list


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>smARTmouf</b>!
> josh smith....vince carter hops??..hmmmm...although that picture doesnt show me this freakish vertical...that sort of athleticism is what the bulls need...when mcgrady came into the league...all he was known for was his athleticism...now look at him
> 
> i'm just saying...this kid josh smith or igoudella(whatever) should be high on our list


if you scroll back 20-30 pages, there is some video on Smith. and he has absolutely freakish hops. Check it out


----------



## mr.ankle20

I saw Josh Smith Play against my old high school acouple of weeks ago. He is very athletic and he also has pretty good jumpshot. The only weakness I saw in his game is his defense is terrible right now.


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>mr.ankle20</b>!
> I saw Josh Smith Play against my old high school acouple of weeks ago. He is very athletic and he also has pretty good jumpshot. The only weakness I saw in his game is his defense is terrible right now.


Can you tell us about his handle and body?


----------



## curry_52

Ivan Chiriaev is a great mystery to a good number of people. The 7-1 Russian who attends St. Thomas Aquinas in Canada hasn’t seen his parents in 16 months. On March 22, at a 4 p.m. press conference at his school, Chiriaev will announce his intentions to either enter the draft or head to college. 

According to Lorne Clark, a Canadian based scout, Memphis, Iowa State, Syracuse, Kentucky and Florida are in the mix. However, Chiriaev has never visited any of those schools and has no plans to make college trips at this time. At this point, it’s tough to really lend much credibility to the idea of him attending college. 

“The thing is that the people closest to him are telling me is that are two teams that are trying to get a guarantee for him in the first round,” Clark said. “It’s just what he does skill wise and his ability to shoot the ball at his height, there isn’t anybody out there. He brings a new, unique aspect to the game that scouts are looking for.” 

Clarke’s right: scouts do project him to go in the first round of the draft but exactly where depends on who is doing the talking. See, a good number of NBA teams have not been able to see him in anything but workouts. That could all change later in the month at the Hoop Summit that is if he’s allowed to play. 

“I don’t think he will at this point just because the immigration stuff is not cleared up. He’s trying to get everything cleared to play in the Hoop Summit in San Antonio.” 

http://story.theinsiders.com/a.z?s=148&p=2&c=241320


----------



## curry_52

Anyone...Why is it that Paxson is working out guys like Shirley, Jemeil Rich, that will be average bench players at best instead of being in Europe scouting the Euroleague, etc, etc? Are we going to rack up wins by signing Duprees and Shirley Davidsons? 
Its so frustrating...


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> Anyone...Why is it that Paxson is working out guys like Shirley, Jemeil Rich, that will be average bench players at best instead of being in Europe scouting the Euroleague, etc, etc? Are we going to rack up wins by signing Duprees and Shirley Davidsons?
> Its so frustrating...


its a good question Curry. A real good one. I dont understand going after guys like Shirley and Dupree now. Its a moot point. he would be better off staying there for a month, hiring a couple of scouts and seeing every player he can. and not just the FAs over there and the kids he is going to be looking at drafting. But also the kids in next years crop as well. There is no playoffs at the end of this dark tunnell. Not only does he need to worry about the 04 draft, but he needs to worry about the 05 one as well


----------



## bullet

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> Anyone...Why is it that Paxson is working out guys like Shirley, Jemeil Rich, that will be average bench players at best instead of being in Europe scouting the Euroleague, etc, etc? Are we going to rack up wins by signing Duprees and Shirley Davidsons?
> Its so frustrating...


It is frustrating Curry!

I guess Pax started the summer camp early,and thinks maybe,if he can find one or 2 roster players,then it was worth it.

But then again , he might find nothing , thats the only good thing about being the worst team in the league - u cannot be worse , so u better use your time to try and get better.

I can't understand how we cut Blount when we could cut unused Jeffries (only next season garenteed) or Brunson .


----------



## curry_52

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> its a good question Curry. A real good one. I dont understand going after guys like Shirley and Dupree now. Its a moot point. he would be better off staying there for a month, hiring a couple of scouts and seeing every player he can. and not just the FAs over there and the kids he is going to be looking at drafting. But also the kids in next years crop as well. There is no playoffs at the end of this dark tunnell. Not only does he need to worry about the 04 draft, but he needs to worry about the 05 one as well


"With the first pick in the 2005 NBA Draft, the Chicago Bulls select: Anderson Varejao, from Barcelona, Spain".

Why Pax passed on Aleksandrov? 

"I couldnt make the trip", the Bulls GM acknowledged. "I almost had no time to travel to Europe since I was busy finding the next Ronald Dupree", he admitted with a straight face.


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> 
> 
> "With the first pick in the 2005 NBA Draft, the Chicago Bulls select: Anderson Varejao, from Barcelona, Spain".
> 
> Why Pax passed on Aleksandrov?
> 
> "I couldnt make the trip", the Bulls GM acknowledged. "I almost had no time to travel to Europe since I was busy finding the next Ronald Dupree", he admitted with a straight face.


Ouch!


----------



## curry_52

Connecticut's Emeka Okafor has a stress fracture in his lower back that is causing back spasms, but he can play if he can withstand the pain, Dr. Jeff Anderson, the Huskies' director of sports medicine, told ESPN.com Thursday.

The injury isn't expected to cause any permanent damage to the junior center's back, Anderson said.


http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=1756804


----------



## bullet

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> Connecticut's Emeka Okafor has a stress fracture in his lower back that is causing back spasms, but he can play if he can withstand the pain, Dr. Jeff Anderson, the Huskies' director of sports medicine, told ESPN.com Thursday.
> 
> The injury isn't expected to cause any permanent damage to the junior center's back, Anderson said.
> 
> 
> http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=1756804


Thats good news - only if we get him!:grinning:


----------



## bullet

rlucas - our favourite sleeper lost some of the sleeper in him

Romain Sato killed Saint Joseph's both sides BIG TIME:

24 points (6-9 fg and 12-13 ft) , 11 rebounds , 2 as , 2 stls , 2 blks.

"We tried to make it tough for Jameer and West," Sato said. "The last time we played them, they made everything." 

link 

Jameer 7-21 , West 4-14 for SJ


----------



## mgolding

I just want the bulls to get guys who can play basketball. I dont give a **** anymore about their "hops", wingspan, if he's "an amazing athlete for 7ft", has amazing potential. I flat out want guys who know how to play basketball right now, know how to pass, run a set, listen to the coach, can shoot the ball and arent concerned about where thier next million is coming from. This team isnt going to win a championship with Crawford as the 2 guard, two guys who cant pass the ball as their 4 and 5 and a CBA team as the bench. This team needs a complete overhaul.


----------



## Benny the Bull

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> Connecticut's Emeka Okafor has a stress fracture in his lower back that is causing back spasms, but he can play if he can withstand the pain, Dr. Jeff Anderson, the Huskies' director of sports medicine, told ESPN.com Thursday.
> 
> The injury isn't expected to cause any permanent damage to the junior center's back, Anderson said.
> 
> 
> http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=1756804


I don't know what to make of this. Stress Fractures are serious. I know in other cases where sportsman (not basketballers) have had this injury, it has taken them anywhere from 3-12 months to fully recover. The good thing is the recovery is usually complete.

Playing will only make the injury worse. The best remedy is rest, and he will need to get stronger in that area to eliminate the weakness. I could definitely foresee Okafor resting for 3-4 months after the NCAA tourney, depending on the serverity of the injury. I wonder how this would affect his draft position, especially if he couldn't work out?


----------



## bullet

Jarret Jack with another game winning shot (after shakur) to beat UNC.top of the key , nice winner.


----------



## Benny the Bull

Ben Gordon come through in the clutch against Pittsburgh in the Big East championship game. He didn't play too well, but late he took over, especially since Okafor fouled out (who was solid with a double double 11pts, 13 rebs, 3 blks, 4 stls, 1 ast, 5 TOs but at time still looked troubled by his back).

Gordon also scored 29 pts in the two earlier games in the lead up to the final. While it's highly unlikely we would take Gordon, his stock may have moved up after this weekend.


----------



## fleetwood macbull

who is the Latest next T-Mac? Its Dorell Wright!

Insider

6'7 210 Dorell Wright

The Skinny: Right now, Wright is the best kept secret in high school ball. Several scouts who have made the journey to see him play in Connecticut compare him to a young Tracy McGrady. He's a do it all kid with great athleticism, shooting ability and handles. He's long, quick, and can play both the 2 or 3.
He's committed to Depaul, but from what we hear, Wright is going to put his name in the draft.
Once he gets into workouts, one scout claims that he could end up a late lottery to mid first round pick. Right now its safer to say that he's on the 1st round bubble, but the upside is tremendous

?


----------



## rlucas4257

Luca Bogdanovic, remember the name. Chad Ford mentioned him on friday and now alot of people are talking about him. He averages 12 pts, he is 6-9 215. So a bit skinny. But this years poor mans Peja Stoyacovic or a slightly better Pavlovic


----------



## curry_52

> Originally posted by <b>fleetwood macbull</b>!
> who is the Latest next T-Mac? Its Dorell Wright!
> 
> Insider
> 
> 6'7 210 Dorell Wright
> 
> The Skinny: Right now, Wright is the best kept secret in high school ball. Several scouts who have made the journey to see him play in Connecticut compare him to a young Tracy McGrady. He's a do it all kid with great athleticism, shooting ability and handles. He's long, quick, and can play both the 2 or 3.
> He's committed to Depaul, but from what we hear, Wright is going to put his name in the draft.
> Once he gets into workouts, one scout claims that he could end up a late lottery to mid first round pick. Right now its safer to say that he's on the 1st round bubble, but the upside is tremendous
> 
> ?


Yeah, I read the same thing about Qyntel Woods last year.


----------



## bullet

Martynas Andriuskevicius is up to 5th at nbadraft.com!!!

rlucas - have u seen him , I remember u wrote about him workink out with Sabonis...

there r some guys we can address the backup C position with - a lot of 7+ footers like Kosta Perovic , Robert Swift , Ha Seung-Jin , Rafael Araujo , and Pavel and Martynas all at the moment unknown where they'd fall draft day.

BTW - Devin Harris up to 11 and Rudy is projected 20th (can he fall to the 2nd round after his performence lately)


----------



## bullet

does anybody know Kevin Martin??? 
he declared - a 6-7 guard from HS


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>bullet</b>!
> Martynas Andriuskevicius is up to 5th at nbadraft.com!!!
> 
> rlucas - have u seen him , I remember u wrote about him workink out with Sabonis...
> 
> there r some guys we can address the backup C position with - a lot of 7+ footers like Kosta Perovic , Robert Swift , Ha Seung-Jin , Rafael Araujo , and Pavel and Martynas all at the moment unknown where they'd fall draft day.
> 
> BTW - Devin Harris up to 11 and Rudy is projected 20th (can he fall to the 2nd round after his performence lately)


doesnt surprise me. I saw him play this weekend. He is a nice prospect


----------



## rlucas4257

http://www.nbadraft.net/index.asp

Bullet brought this up. I think its interesting. And there is some good news, if NBADraft.net is anywhere close to being right.  

Marvin Williams and Rashad McCants have moved down to the end of round 1. Plus Luke Jackson, a favorite of my here, is basically a second round pick at this point. He is second to last in round 1

Other observations. Martynas Andrievekivius (forget trying to spell his name) is at 5. The secret is out. Damnit. This kid is really polished. I was hoping to trade down with Boston and get him in the middle of round 1

Ukic is ahead of Sasha . I doubt this holds up. 

Pavel heading back up. Now he is at 8 after being at 11. 

Deng keeps inching down. he is at 6. 

Luca Bognadovic isnt in their mock at all. Lets hope he flies under the radar screen. He is a very nice prospect. 

Rudy Fernandez is at 20. My guess is that he moves up 5-10 spots from there on draft day

Mo Ke is basically an end of round 2 pick. But this kid is a player in the NBA. He is a nice steal

Duhon, inspite of some very good performances is buries in round 2. 

Sato hasnt moved too much inspite of good performances


----------



## InPaxWeTrust

I think we have 3 2nd rd picks, correct? If we could get Luke Jackson, Mo Ke, and Sato in the 2nd round Paxson will have done very nicely. Combine that with Okafor maybe and wow.


----------



## bullet

> Originally posted by <b>IntheBlinkofaDeng</b>!
> I think we have 3 2nd rd picks, correct? If we could get Luke Jackson, Mo Ke, and Sato in the 2nd round Paxson will have done very nicely. Combine that with Okafor maybe and wow.


Sato and Ke will probably be 2nd rounders - but I'd be VERY surprized if Luke Jackson falls there , VERY , and if he's there , he's a scoring stud , he knows all the ways , and he's good in all other aspects as well. STUD!!!

I'll be glad to get Sato - and Ke I know nothing about him out of the web.


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>bullet</b>!
> 
> 
> Sato and Ke will probably be 2nd rounders - but I'd be VERY surprized if Luke Jackson falls there , VERY , and if he's there , he's a scoring stud , he knows all the ways , and he's good in all other aspects as well. STUD!!!
> 
> I'll be glad to get Sato - and Ke I know nothing about him out of the web.


here is my thoughts on Ke. I have seen one of his games. And he abused Yi Jianlin in that game. Jianlin is going to be a top 3 pick next year. But Ke is much older so it does make some sense. Now, is Ke an NBA player? Well, he isnt a starter. But he can be a nice backup. a 9th or 10th man. BUT, and this is what I see, you take a kid like this and now you have entered a whole new world. there are 250 million registered basketball players in China. that is more basketball players then the US has people. Getting Ke means you start to build a relationship with the Chinese govt. it means you have a guy who might be able to help tell you about the culture and players there. I mean, Dallas and Houston, I am sure have a huge start there. The clips could have it but i doubt they care much. Detroit thinks so highly of it that they have sent Tony Ronzone to live there fulltime. getting Ke is almost like getting our own Chinese scout. And he might be able to contribute in a pinch. Call him a warmup for actually having a chinese player later


----------



## truebluefan

*Dwight Howard, gets national nod as top player*

Dwight Howard, who led Southwest Atlanta Christian Academy to the Class A basketball championship, has been named Naismith Male Prep Player of the Year by the Atlanta Tipoff Club. 

Previous male winners include Dennis Scott, Alonzo Mourning, Chris Webber, Jason Kidd, Kobe Bryant and LeBron James. 

http://www.ajc.com/wednesday/content/epaper/editions/wednesday/sports_048520c7345471110072.html


----------



## ABull

Rlucas,

About Mo Ke...

You still have to worry about him being allowed to come over any time soon as well. It's one of those is it worth the hassle? 90% of these guys never make a roster anyway and who really wants to waste tens of hours dealing w/ red tape? I know you think differently, but not all teams will want the distraction or opportunity as you would see it. Obviosly it would be a lot different if we were talking about Yi instead.


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>ABull</b>!
> Rlucas,
> 
> About Mo Ke...
> 
> You still have to worry about him being allowed to come over any time soon as well. It's one of those is it worth the hassle? 90% of these guys never make a roster anyway and who really wants to waste tens of hours dealing w/ red tape? I know you think differently, but not all teams will want the distraction or opportunity as you would see it. Obviosly it would be a lot different if we were talking about Yi instead.


100% agree. I think Ke is an ok player. Like i said, an 8th or 9th man. So nothing great. But getting him gives us one thing that most people dont have, a toe in the water in China and some experience in dealing with the Govts and teams over there. I look at Ke as practice for players down the road. So time well spent IMO

Good seeing you around mate. Let me know what your plans are when you get a chance


----------



## GB

> Originally posted by <b>GB</b>!
> There won't be any lottery for the Bulls in 04.


----------



## GB

> Originally posted by <b>GB</b>!
> 
> 
> The Bulls probably won't be in a position to draft him---he'll go lottery and theres probably a good chance the Bulls won't be a lottery team.
> 
> Maybe they can trade for him though. Butr after the past 5 seasons, most fans seem glad to not have to play the look ahead to the draft game.


Someone had control of my account...had to be...:no:


----------



## rlucas4257

No one was going to bring that up GB


----------



## curry_52

_“I will only enter this year's draft if I win the ACB (Spanish league) with Joventut,” says Fernandez when asked about his future in the NBA. "Yes, that is the only way I would declare for the draft – and my family is going to have the most important influence on my decision.” _ 

http://www.hoopshype.com/articles/rudy_carro.htm


----------



## bullet

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> _“I will only enter this year's draft if I win the ACB (Spanish league) with Joventut,” says Fernandez when asked about his future in the NBA. "Yes, that is the only way I would declare for the draft – and my family is going to have the most important influence on my decision.” _
> 
> http://www.hoopshype.com/articles/rudy_carro.htm


Yikes - I dont think we'll see him next season.

anyway not in Bulls uni...


----------



## rlucas4257

Sato, damnit, he is going to go in round 1. 24 pts 5-8 from 3 pt land and some real lock down D. And this kid has only played 5 years of organized ball. Its a crime no one has him in their first round. He is this years Pietrus.


----------



## curry_52

Odds are Arizona sophomore forward Andre Iguodala will make himself available for the NBA draft. He hasn't said it, but many believe he would be selected in the top half of the first round in a draft that will be loaded with foreign players and high school standouts.

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/cheapseats/0320page2col0320.html


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> Odds are Arizona sophomore forward Andre Iguodala will make himself available for the NBA draft. He hasn't said it, but many believe he would be selected in the top half of the first round in a draft that will be loaded with foreign players and high school standouts.
> 
> http://www.azcentral.com/sports/cheapseats/0320page2col0320.html


I think he has to be top 5 or 6. DOnt you think? only 2 things holding him back. The guy averaged 12 ppg on an U of A team that was not as good as their teams of the past. That fact will probably put a ceiling over his head. otherwise, he is a heck of a player


----------



## bullet

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> Sato, damnit, he is going to go in round 1. 24 pts 5-8 from 3 pt land and some real lock down D. And this kid has only played 5 years of organized ball. Its a crime no one has him in their first round. He is this years Pietrus.


yup , lucas seems our sleeper has played himself out of bed


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>bullet</b>!
> 
> 
> yup , lucas seems our sleeper has played himself out of bed


Bullet, isnt it a crime that he isnt in the first round on most mocks? I mean, this kid as a pro body, plays great D, has above average athleticism and can flat out shoot. And what I love about him most is that he as only played organized ball for 5 years. He is going to get much better. He plays smart. He somehow gets contact and draws fouls. My only question is can you throw the ball to him at the end of a tight game and can he create something for himself? thats the only question. But damn, the guy puts on a show. he is a definetely a first round pick. In a world that took Fred Jones at 14, he should be atleast 20. he is a better player then jones is


----------



## bullet

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> Bullet, isnt it a crime that he isnt in the first round on most mocks? I mean, this kid as a pro body, plays great D, has above average athleticism and can flat out shoot. And what I love about him most is that he as only played organized ball for 5 years. He is going to get much better. He plays smart. He somehow gets contact and draws fouls. My only question is can you throw the ball to him at the end of a tight game and can he create something for himself? thats the only question. But damn, the guy puts on a show. he is a definetely a first round pick. In a world that took Fred Jones at 14, he should be atleast 20. he is a better player then jones is


:yes: :yes: :yes: 

if he keeps this kinda play he'd find himself much higher , no matter whats writen in the mock!


----------



## bullet

Deng 20 pnts 7 rbds 2 asts 2 blk 6-9 fg 7-8 ft in easy win against Seton Hall

he's a man we sure can use and I think he'll wait another year


----------



## rlucas4257

for the record, since everybody has "their guy". If he comes out, Marvin Williams might just be "my guy". Though I still like McCants at the end of round 1


----------



## futuristxen

Snyder from Nevada...that guy is a beast. If we're going to let Crawford walk, and he is in the draft, and if he slips to the 2nd round...I snap him up. I don't know what his draft stock is, but he's been showing his metal in the tourney. Offensively and defensively.


----------



## fleetwood macbull

maybe two Kirks would be the ticket to fame?

That guy is good i agree. Nice pick if he slips


----------



## rosenthall

Uh oh. I think with Xavier in the Sweet 16, that might just blow the lid off of Romain Sato lasting until the second round. He's the head honcho on a team that is one of the country's new media darlings....he's going to get a hell of a lot more hype now, and I have a feeling that it could be more than enough to catapult him into the first round.


----------



## bullet

> Originally posted by <b>rosenthall</b>!
> Uh oh. I think with Xavier in the Sweet 16, that might just blow the lid off of Romain Sato lasting until the second round. He's the head honcho on a team that is one of the country's new media darlings....he's going to get a hell of a lot more hype now, and I have a feeling that it could be more than enough to catapult him into the first round.


Yup ,I agree , I think he played himself into 1st round.

Wade boosted up a lot of places last season with his play and getting to final 4.

We'll have to find a different sleeper in the 2nd...


----------



## ABull

Don't forget the reason all these short solid SG's & PF's for that matter end up as late 1st rounders and early second rounders is because of all the HSers and International players. You have to be an OUTSTANDING college player to get into the first round anymore.

Rlucas, check your PM.


----------



## dsouljah9

*Ivan Chiriaev to enter draft...*

High schooler from Canada to enter draft Associated Press - 22nd March, 2004 11:49 PM 

OAKVILLE, Ontario (AP) If NBA teams picked players on confidence alone, Ivan Chiriaev would be a guaranteed lottery pick. 

The 7-foot-1 high school star said Monday he will enter the 2004 NBA draft, skipping his college eligibility. And failure is not an option. 

``The NBA wants and needs Ivan Chiriaev,'' the 19-year-old said at a news conference held in his school's library. ``I have a great opportunity right now and everybody from scouts to GMs to presidents of the clubs are saying I will go top five. And worst case, it will be a lottery pick.'' 

Chiriaev moved to Canada 16 months ago from Russia, to live with an uncle and pursue his basketball future. He has learned to speak English and put 70 pounds on what was a skin-and-bones 180-pound frame. 

Over the past few months NBA and college scouts trekked to the gym for a glimpse at what they hope will be the next big international star. 

``I was able to go from nowhere in Russia to this day and this press conference with hard work,'' said Chiriaev, who hopes to move his family from Russia if he is drafted. ``This hard work will help me go from today and this press conference to the next level, NBA all-star.'' 

Chiriaev will play for the 10-member World Select team against a top 10 prospects team from the United States in a high school all-star game April 4 in San Antonio during the Final Four.


----------



## dsouljah9

I think that he might go in the top 20. I doubt that the Bulls pick him if they drop to 5.


----------



## curry_52

CHICAGO – Larry Bird was perched up in the balcony. Danny Ainge was seated along one sideline. And in every other nook and cranny of the Moody Bible Institute gymnasium here Monday were scores of front-office personnel – scouts, general managers, even an owner – from throughout the NBA. 

It used to be if you were looking for lottery picks in March, you hit the NCAA tournament. 

These days, in the post-LeBron era, you come to the practices leading up to Wednesday's 40th annual EA Sports Roundball Classic (or next week's McDonald's All American game) to watch the nation's top high school players. 

NBA executives expect that a record haul of as many as 10 high school players will be selected in the first round of June's draft. Perhaps seven of them are here. 

"The times," said one of those seven, guard Shaun Livingston of Peoria, Ill., "are changing." 

While the NCAA tournament continues to churn out drama, it does so largely without superstar talent. Early defections by college players and straight-to-the-draft decisions by high school standouts have fished the NCAA pond nearly out of prospective pros. And since someone has to get picked, high school kids are rushing to fill the void. 

While prep-to-pros is not a new phenomenon – it happened back in the 1970s, and then became popular again when Kevin Garnett made the jump in 1995 – what we are about to see is an avalanche. 

The current record for high school first round selections is four (2001, 2003). As recently as 2002 there was just one (Amare Stoudemire). 

But with the instant impact of Stoudemire and LeBron James, the lack of NBA-caliber talent in the college ranks, and the league's increased willingness to draft on potential rather than production, those numbers will soon seem quaint. 

"I wish we didn't have to go through this," said Ainge, the executive director of the Boston Celtics after watching the workouts. "I wish kids would go to college. But we just don't live in that world any more." 

Not that Ainge blames the kids. If he came out of North Eugene (Ore.) High now and not 1977, he admits he might turn pro too. 

"In the summertime I played with all of the Portland Trail Blazers," Ainge said. "I always thought I could play with those guys. Some guys, not all guys. I am just glad it wasn't even a thought process, because more than anything I am glad I was able to go to college. It was four of the best years of my life." 

Being a top high school player means business. Just a couple years ago the high school all-star game was a loose, fun affair for players. A chance to make friends and practice alley-oops. 

Today it is a job interview. 

"Everyone is watching," said 6-foot-9-inch, 330-pound Glen Davis of Baton Rouge, La. "I need to keep a clean image and a great attitude. You never know who is there and if they want to pick me." 

The semi-formal kickoff banquet that used to be overrun by college coaches seeking recruits is now the domain of powerful agents seeking clients. Arn Tellum, Bill Duffy and Dan Fegan, among others, were at the Hyatt Regency on Monday. 

What were once meaningless practice sessions now feel like scouting combines. Monday's 20-minute scrimmage was intense. Loose balls were dove for, rebounds fought over. All while scouts scribbled notes. 

The pressure was palpable. 

"I do feel (pressure)," said Josh Smith, an Indiana signee out of Virginia's famed Oak Hill Academy. "But you can't think too hard or you'll screw up." 

Smith, an athletically gifted 6-foot-9 forward is likely a lottery pick according to the buzz along the sidelines ("I am hearing the same thing," he said.) Like everyone here (including 6-foot-11 Josh Howard of Atlanta, the likely No. 1 pick overall), Smith hasn't officially announced he is entering the draft, but he's been on the NBA radar for a year. 

"They (scouted me) all season," he shrugged. "I've seen just about everybody I've seen today at Oak Hill." 

Deciding to skip college was once an emotional gamble based as much on youthful gumption as business strategy. Only a few dared consider it. Most were non-qualified recruits with few other options. 

Now there isn't a top 50 player in the country that hasn't at least entertained the thought. And they fit no stereotype. Livingston is a Duke signee. Brooklyn's Sebastian Telfair is, at most, 6-feet tall. Robert Swift, a 7-foot-1-inch center from California, could become the first white player to make the leap. 

"I think it is a no-brainer," said Reebok's Sonny Vaccaro, who has been a pioneer in grassroots basketball for four decades. "They have to do it. I am not an advocate of the kids that are borderline NBA (entering the draft). But if you are guaranteed (to be picked in the first round and receive a three-year contract), you have to go." 

Vaccaro says it is simple business. Hit when the market is hot. 

"Before their blemishes, their pimples are exposed they should take the money," Vaccaro said. "I know a lot of kids in college playing in that tournament who were thought of like these guys (when they were high school seniors) and they are still in college. 

"Now there is nothing wrong with that; don't misinterpret me. But I don't know if going to college makes you a great NBA player." 

What about taking time to learn from a great college coach? Vaccaro argues that, due to NCAA restrictions, bad hiring by universities and an intense pressure to win, there are few college coaches who actually develop players. 

"Let's say there are 65 top-quality programs in America." he said. "I think there are 10 guys that I would trust my kid to get better with. I think if you investigate the schools you will see where player A got better than player B." 

"Besides, look at Tyson (Chandler), Eddy (Curry), Kwame (Brown). It takes time (to improve). But as they were taking the time, they were making millions of dollars and being taught. They would now be juniors at wherever they would have gone. Florida. DePaul. Would they have gotten better? I don't know." 

As for the players, there is still an allure to college basketball, especially with the tournament playing out. 

"March Madness, that is the best time," Livingston said, sounding like a teenager. 

But it is only so strong. Livingston quickly shifted back to sounding like a businessman. 

"It's (about making) the best choice for you at the best time," he said. "It is all about timing. If the timing isn't right, then college is the best decision." 

But if the timing is right, the avalanche is on. 

http://sports.yahoo.com/top/news;_y...0bQ--?slug=dw-prepstopros&prov=yhoo&type=lgns


----------



## rlucas4257

Martynas interview, may not be entering the draft but we will see

http://basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=85805


----------



## bullet

Cheezedoodle - who is this 7-4 guy???

Peter Ramos 7-4 275 at PF from Puerto Rico ?!?


----------



## curry_52

It would seem like the bedroom of any other high school hoops star. Basketball shoes strewn about the room. A game jersey left where it was dropped. Posters of Michael Jordan and Julius Erving, two gods of the hardcourt, on the wall.

Next to the wooden cross and framed copy of The Ten Commandments, Dwight Howard posted his personal commandments as a reminder to stay true to his faith and his vision. 

And it shall (and) will come to pass that Dwight Howard II will surpass LeBron James for the best high school basketball player, college player and NBA player. Amen.

And it shall (and) will come to pass that Dwight Howard II would stand head and shoulders over 2004 prospects in the name of Jesus. Will he do it? Amen.

And it shall (and) will come to pass Dwight Howard II will be the Number 1 draft pick in the NBA draft.

And it shall (and) will come to pass SACA will win the 2002-2003, 2003-2004 state championship.

It shall and will come to pass that the NBA will be runned by the standards of God.

Seemingly, a typical room of a typical hoops junky.


If not for the hand-crafted wooden cross over the bed.


If not for the framed copy of the Ten Commandments that hangs beside it.


If not for the crude drawing of the NBA logo with a cross affixed over the heart of Jerry West's silhouette, the exclamation to Dwight Howard's own personal commandments, handwritten on notebook paper.


Howard, indeed, is not a typical teenager. He's this year's LeBron James, a 6-foot-10 power forward with the game that could make him the No. 1 pick in the NBA draft, but with an evangelistic spirit that he hopes will "raise the name of God within the league and throughout the world."


The NBA arena, as is his want, will be his pulpit.


NBA scouts are believers in his game. But will NBA fans buy his message?


"I want to be able to speak to non-Christians so that I can get them saved or change their lives around," Howard said before Wednesday's Roundball Classic in Chicago. He then flaunted his God-given skill, scoring 16 points and grabbing 12 rebounds in the first of a series of all-star games that the nation's top high school players use to showcase their court skills.


Howard, named both the Naismith and McDonald's national high school player of the year, is used to talking about his faith. He has attended Southwest Atlanta Christian Academy since kindergarten and his high school basketball coach, Courtney Brooks, is also a bible teacher who quotes scripture before every game. His favorite song is a gospel hymn, "Praise is What I Do." And when someone asks for his autograph, Howard writes "God bless" alongside his signature, so that he can "let people know that everything that they've gotten is because of God."


While it has been often speculated that highly paid endorsers like Michael Jordan and Tiger Woods have been hushed of their personal opinions by the multinational companies that pay them handsomely to pitch products, Howard said he has no intentions of giving up his goal of spreading the Gospel.


And if it's God's will, he says, then the riches will follow.


"I think I can make as much money or even more than LeBron. But it will be up to God for that to happen," Howard said. "If he wants me to market myself, then I'll do it. I'm not trying to give glory for myself. I'm trying to give glory for Him."


It may take divine intervention for this year's preps-to-pros phenom to make anywhere near the kind of off-the-court money that LeBron makes as a rookie with the Cleveland Cavaliers. That may have as much to do with the fact that James continues to command the media spotlight and among sports' richest endorsement deals, totaling an estimated $135 million. But perhaps more to the point, sports marketing experts are divided over whether Howard's message of faith will be a hard sell for companies looking for a player to pitch their products, no matter the wholesomeness of his religious convictions.


"This is the first time an athlete will be able to overcome what (former San Antonio Spurs center David Robinson) couldn't do," said Sonny Vaccaro, the Reebok executive who has been running the Roundball Classic for the past 40 years. "David was a leader in the crusade of being religious and being a great athlete, but Dwight's plan could work because we're in an era of niche marketing. He's taking a stand saying, 'I'm going to do this and some company is going to buy into it,' and that fact is that these companies have millions and billions of dollars to brand Dwight as their hero.


"If he's as good as I think he will be, he'll be the perfect role model for this segment of the population."


Others aren't so sure.


"Dwight's religious appeal is amplified by the fact that the majority of this country can relate to what he practices, but it would be a mistake to use his celebrity as a bullhorn for his personal beliefs," said Scott Becher, president of Sports & Sponsorships, a sports marketing firm. 


"There are some people who are disgusted at a guy like (St. Louis Rams quarterback) Kurt Warner, who after winning the Super Bowl gives glory to Jesus Christ," said Mike Rohrbach, the long-time chaplain for the Seattle SuperSonics who also directs Run to Win Outreach, a youth sports ministry. "They think, 'I don't need to hear about religion when I'm watching the game.' "


Certainly, Howard will hardly be the lone evangelist in the league, as religion and sports seem to go hand and hand for a growing number of players. Each NBA team has a volunteer chaplain who leads non-denominational services before games, and players commonly reference "God," "Christ" or the "Lord" during post-game press conferences. 


About 50 percent of the league's players attend at least one service during the season and seemingly every team has a player who considers himself a devout Christian, said former ABA and NBA guard Claude Terry, executive vice president of the Pro Basketball Fellowship, which oversees the NBA teams' chaplains.


"I would hope that Dwight's beliefs wouldn't hurt his chances to market products," Terry said. "I would think that marketers would want to embrace someone with such values. At the same time, I can understand that we live in an age where people are supposed to be tolerant of the choices others make and it could be interpreted that he is imposing his beliefs on them."


In an era in which even a player's image that was as squeaky clean as Kobe Bryant's could be tarnished in mere moments and companies aligned with that player could be faced with the fallout, Howard's profession of Christian ethics could help ease the fears of company officials who have grown weary of their risky alliance with athletes.


"Companies will welcome the good guys," said Dwight Howard Sr., a Georgia state trooper who moonlights as the athletic director for his son's school. "There will be a market for guys who stand by their religious principles."


The topic of religion has heated up off the court in recent weeks. "Passion of the Christ," a Mel Gibson movie about the final days of Jesus' life, has generated controversy and almost $300 million at the box office since its Feb. 25 release. The Supreme Court, meanwhile, is hearing the case brought by a California man who challenges that the phrase "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance is unconstitutional. The use of the phrase often recited by schoolchildren has tied up courts for more than a decade.


Though more than 75 percent of Americans (160 million) call themselves Christians, high-profile athletes who have professed their faith often have struggled to land endorsement deals. Warner was one of the exceptions, signing more than $1 million in endorsement deals for two consecutive years in 1999 and 2000.


"The choice to talk about faith both helps and hurts in the endorsement world," said Rob Lefko, vice president of marketing for Priority Sports, who negotiated deals for Warner. "There are speaking circuits and companies run by Christian individuals or groups who find that athlete more attractive. And there are also companies who are hoping to appeal to the broadest possible group of people who think the stance on religion is exclusionary."


Howard said he realizes that religion hasn't always been seen as a selling point, having observed one of his role models, Robinson, struggle with airing his religious convictions publicly. Despite playing a major role in two NBA championships in a five-year period, Robinson did not score a slew of national commercials. A host of reasons could have contributed including a lack of flash on the court, the size of the San Antonio market, as well as his clear religious preference. 


"The more mainstream a product is, the more officials at most Fortune 500 companies have an increased sensitivity toward athletes using religion in their off-the-court message," said David Schwab, director of strategic marketing and media for Octagon, which represents many athletes who have been openly religious, including Robinson, former Los Angeles Dodgers pitcher Orel Hershiser and recently retired tennis player Michael Chang.


"It's clearly about the green when you are talking endorsements," said Carey Casey, president of the Fellowship of Christian Athletes. "There is a system that has been followed in the past by athletes when they sign with companies to tone down some of their individuality. Dwight might need to abide by those rules if he wants to maximize his earning potential, but that doesn't mean he still can't dream about talking freely about his faith and signing big deals."


Howard's marketability might also be hindered by two factors -- relative lack of national exposure and lack of what marketers call "Street Cred," the ability to appeal to urban youth who spend their disposable income on athletic shoes and apparel. 


Before James was drafted, two of his high school team's game were televised by ESPN, he graced the cover of Sports Illustrated and he was on his way to becoming a household name. Howard played a game on ESPN, but he's still far from being known on a national level.


As far as his appeal to the urban culture, Howard is not exactly a great fit. Unlike James, who drives a luxury SUV, Howard is intent on keeping his 1984 Crown Victoria his father bought him for $900. Howard's favorite movie? Finding Nemo. And he freely quotes lines from his favorite characters, Marlin and Dori.


"I know I haven't grown up on the streets and I don't have that bad guy image like Allen Iverson," Howard said. "My message is different and I still feel that I can touch a lot of different people."


Vaccaro, for one, believes that Howard can do just that.


"The cold reality is that there is only so much room for the lionized one and LeBron's the man," Vaccaro said. "But Dwight will be fine making his dollar in his niche and people will be very supportive of him and his beliefs."

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=1769153


----------



## mr.ankle20

every professional sports league needs more christan athletes like him.


----------



## rlucas4257

Kiss that Romain Sato as a Chicago Bull in round 2 good bye. How quickly can a kid go from 35ish to 15? Well Sato just did it in a week


----------



## curry_52

Sato 27 against Texas and the W


----------



## curry_52

Both posted about Sato at 12:11


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> Both posted about Sato at 12:11


I noticed that too. Great minds think alike. His game is really exciting. What a likable kid. Very charismatic. He has a pro game. Kind of reminds me of you know who a bit. Good defender, good shooter and a sky high ceiling. He is off our board I believe but only cause of where we will be picking. But if we were trading down, Id love to grab him. He is an impossibility in round 2 right now


----------



## chifaninca

Curry and Rlucas....

Do you guys take Okafor or Howard with the #1 or #2 pick or do you trade it to someone like Boston for multiple picks to grab igudola (sp - Arizona) and Sato? 

What's your preference at this point.

More importantly, how much development do the guys you are eyeing need? the reason I ask is that Chicago can't develop a slogan, let alone developing players.


----------



## Rodman

I'm not Curry or rlucas, but I would trade Okafor or Howard for Bostons three draft picks in a second. There seems to be a lot of talent in this years draft, allthough it doesn't have any superstars. Maybe Okafor would be just the right piece to trade to Boston?


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>chifaninca</b>!
> Curry and Rlucas....
> 
> Do you guys take Okafor or Howard with the #1 or #2 pick or do you trade it to someone like Boston for multiple picks to grab igudola (sp - Arizona) and Sato?
> 
> What's your preference at this point.
> 
> More importantly, how much development do the guys you are eyeing need? the reason I ask is that Chicago can't develop a slogan, let alone developing players.


Chifanica and Rodman. Hello

I wrote a thread 2 weeks ago detailing this. I think Okafor is going to be great. simply great. But we really dont need him and I still believe Chandler has a chance. If Chandler doesnt pan out, tall athletic 4s is the easiest position in the NBA to fill. I called it arbitrage. 

My deal was to trade Okafor to Boston for their 3 number ones and Jiri Welsh. I think Boston would do it and I think we ought to do it. THe 3 guys I wanted to draft (which at right now would be 15,22 24 were Martynas Andriekivicius, Marvin Williams and Rashad McCants. That has changed drastically because Martynas is a top 10 pick and Williams is moving up. So the 3 guys Id take are Marvin Williams, Luca Bogdanovic and Romain Sato or Viera de Souza with those picks. Just my 2 cents but we need a ton of help on the wings. 3 draft picks would be a good start


----------



## chifaninca

Martynas is being project by some to be a top 5 pick now! Wow, that could help our trade value.

Let's say that you are in charge of our draft and we do the Boston trade of our #1 0r #2 pick for their 3 picks.

So Chicago ends up with #11, #24, #25 for the #1 or #2.

Who do you take with picks:

#11
#24
#25
#32
#40
#47

Do you make all of those picks? Trade one or two? Draft Euro prospects? 

Also, now that you have drafted 6 more players and still have the rights to Austin and Smith how do you purge the roster?

I would have to think that we might want to entice Houston to take atleast one of these picks as prepayment for next 2 years 2nd rd picks owed.

Also, do we use one of the late #1s to entice Charlotte to take Antonio Davis or JYD or E-Rob?

Guys on next years roster from this years team -

PG - Hinrich
SG - 
SF - E-Rob
PF - Chandler, JYD
C - Curry, Davis

Wow, I guess we do have atleast 8 slots to fill.

I didn't count Jeffries cause he'll be camp fodder then a throw in or cut. I'm personally hoping that Crawford's deal is matched. he has value, that we might not be able to exploit next year, but the year after. Plus, I do think continued development under Skiles will improve him tremendously.


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>chifaninca</b>!
> Martynas is being project by some to be a top 5 pick now! Wow, that could help our trade value.
> 
> Let's say that you are in charge of our draft and we do the Boston trade of our #1 0r #2 pick for their 3 picks.
> 
> So Chicago ends up with #11, #24, #25 for the #1 or #2.
> 
> Who do you take with picks:
> 
> #11
> #24
> #25
> #32
> #40
> #47
> 
> Do you make all of those picks? Trade one or two? Draft Euro prospects?
> 
> Also, now that you have drafted 6 more players and still have the rights to Austin and Smith how do you purge the roster?
> 
> I would have to think that we might want to entice Houston to take atleast one of these picks as prepayment for next 2 years 2nd rd picks owed.
> 
> Also, do we use one of the late #1s to entice Charlotte to take Antonio Davis or JYD or E-Rob?
> 
> Guys on next years roster from this years team -
> 
> PG - Hinrich
> SG -
> SF - E-Rob
> PF - Chandler, JYD
> C - Curry, Davis
> 
> Wow, I guess we do have atleast 8 slots to fill.
> 
> I didn't count Jeffries cause he'll be camp fodder then a throw in or cut. I'm personally hoping that Crawford's deal is matched. he has value, that we might not be able to exploit next year, but the year after. Plus, I do think continued development under Skiles will improve him tremendously.


Very interesting. Here are the guys I would pick at those spots. I am also going to take into account who I think will come out and who wont. Rashad McCants for instance, who i see as a poor mans Dwayne Wade, would be someone I would love at the end of round 1. But he swears he is in school for one more year

at 11, Im taking Marvin Williams
The other 2 number ones Im taking Romain Sato and Luca Bogdanovic

In round 2 Im taking Chris Duhon or Marcelo Huertas

With the last second round pick, take Viera de Souza if available. If not, take Mo Ke and leave him in China for a year

Now as for Smith and Austin. Austin has contract issues with CSKA. I can say for certain that they are not happy with him. And they have every reason to be ticked. They are not going to let Austin play in the NBA

As for Smith, he was a wasted pick. He is a 4, and a very skinny one at that. he has put up some nice games in Europe but really doesnt look special to me. 

Hope this helps. Good post Chifanica


----------



## curry_52

After struggling during 2 weeks (Mainly after Copa del Rey), Nocioni had a very good game tonight (he played well in Euroleague last wednesday).

His Line tonight against Casademont Girona:

30 Points
8-15 2PT
2-7 3PT
8-9 FT
12 Rebounds (1 Off)
3 Assists
1 Steal
1 TO
1 Block


Macijauskas is another guy that is struggling as of late, he had some problems with Ivanovic -his coach- and was also injured.

His line tonight:
2 Points
0-1 2PT
0-4 3PT
2-2 FT
1 Rebound
1 Assist
2 TOs
1 Block


----------



## chifaninca

Curry,

I am curious who your picks would be if we swapped with Boston?

See above posts from me & Rlucas.

Thanks


----------



## curry_52

> Originally posted by <b>chifaninca</b>!
> Curry,
> 
> I am curious who your picks would be if we swapped with Boston?
> 
> See above posts from me & Rlucas.
> 
> Thanks


I already said that I wouldnt trade our pick for multiple picks cause I believe we dont need them. We need depth but I dont like to stack up our roster with 19-20 years old boys. 
And even if we make that trade, I have no idea who I would take.
There are lot of options, interesting players, but thats all.


----------



## truebluefan

I am still concerned about Okafor. He is having problems with his nerves in his back and his muscles. He looked really good on defense and rebounding. But, I wonder if this is just a one year thing that is going on with his back? 

He hardly played in the second half.


----------



## truebluefan

Josh Smith's stock is dropping?

...Josh Smith, the acrobatic 6-8 forward from Oak Hill Academy, had his stock fall. Penciled in among the top five draftees and compared to Vince Carter in athleticism, Smith didn't show a lot in the way of skills. "He's closer to Stacey Augmon than Vince Carter," observed one scout.

Todays New York Daily News.


----------



## rlucas4257

http://cache.gettyimages.com/comp/3...2&ev=1&dareq=F94E6BC3CE1BABDFE971B2B6D1861D8A


----------



## curry_52

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> http://cache.gettyimages.com/comp/3...2&ev=1&dareq=F94E6BC3CE1BABDFE971B2B6D1861D8A


Is that Varejao?


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> 
> 
> Is that Varejao?


that was my first thought as well


----------



## curry_52

I havent watched Marvin, but I like his body (by looking at some pics)

P.S: I dont live in San Fran


----------



## bullet

rlucas - I don't know if uv'e seen it already but u'll sure like it - draft city best case senario for your guy Marvin is James Worthy ( or Mello ) - probably the quickest legs under a 6-9 frame to play the game

Marvin Williams


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>bullet</b>!
> rlucas - I don't know if uv'e seen it already but u'll sure like it - draft city best case senario for your guy Marvin is James Worthy ( or Mello ) - probably the quickest legs under a 6-9 frame to play the game
> 
> Marvin Williams


I have seen 2 game tapes of his and he is really good. If he were playing at a power house like Oak Hill, he would be a top 5 pick. Something about this guy says star, maybe not on day 1, but in year 2


----------



## Wild Wild West

The Boston situation is interesting in term of hoping to get three contributors, but I think the key is can we get the long term solution at the SF with our high pick. I think there are only three potential candidates, Deng if he comes out, Smith, and possibly Iguodala although he may be more of a swing player or SG.

I don't think we get that ultimate starter at the 3 moving down that far. I think I would prefer one of those three, and then packaging our three seconds and maybe a fringe player to try to move up to middle/late first round to get another guard, and then the third major difference maker being the MLE this summer. I like alot of the players projected to go in the 20's.


----------



## curry_52

Arenas and Dabullz, what can you tell us about Marvin Williams? Is he worth a Top-5 pick? Top-10?

Thanks!


----------



## bullet

FYI


Peter Ramos 7-4 275


----------



## cheezdoodle

Ivan Chiriaev and Andris Biedrins have both been replaced on the Hoop Summit roster. 

http://www.draftcity.com/news.htm


----------



## Matthew Maurer

This is too funny!!!!:laugh:


----------



## cheezdoodle

Matt, you might be better off working on keeping your job rather then looking for ways to put down other people's work. We've been very classy talking when talking about you guys, both here on BBB and on our own board, all you are doing is hurting yourselves with this condescending crap. Not very mature if you ask me.


----------



## JRose5

What's the deal with this Mo Ke guy?
I see alot of people putting his name down as someone we should pick up.


----------



## Matthew Maurer

> Matt, you might be better off working on keeping your job rather then looking for ways to put down other people's work. We've been very classy talking when talking about you guys, both here on BBB and on our own board, all you are doing is hurting yourselves with this condescending crap. Not very mature if you ask me.


Work on keeping my job just what is that suppose too mean? Why you gonna take my job. Because let me tell you. You have a long way to go. You guys are full of BS talking about being classy towards me and Aran. You guys ripped us up the whole time you have been putting up that site. Now I love competition but there is a difference between competition competing side by side respecting each other's work. And then there is rip-offs who take your stuff change a few things here and there and then try to pas it as there own. Then you guys even try and rip things off our site I mean come on a counter till the draft!, the 2005 Mock draft. I'm not even gonna go into full detail. I'm sure you guys really saw everyone you have listed!!!??? Furthermore I wasn't even talking about you OR YOUR SITE!!! I WAS SAYING THAT IT WAS TOO FUNNY THAT THEY (CHIRIAEV and ANDRIS BIEDRINS) ARE NOT GONNA PLAY IN THE GAME. AND THE REASON WHY I SAID THIS IS BECAUSE THEY ARE PROBALY TOO SCARRIED TO PLAY BECAUSE OF THEIR DRAFT STOCK. I WASN'T TALKING ABOUT YOUR SITE SO MAYBE YOU SHOULD HAVE PM'ED ME BEFORE JUMPING TO AN ASSUMPTION!!!! Samuel Jackson said it best "Never make assumptions. It only makes an *** out of you and umption."


----------



## cheezdoodle

> Originally posted by <b>Matthew Maurer</b>!
> 
> 
> Work on keeping my job just what is that suppose too mean? Why you gonna take my job. Because let me tell you. You have a long way to go. You guys are full of BS talking about being classy towards me and Aran. You guys ripped us up the whole time you have been putting up that site. Now I love competition but there is a difference between competition competing side by side respecting each other's work. And then there is rip-offs who take your stuff change a few things here and there and then try to pas it as there own. Then you guys even try and rip things off our site I mean come on a counter till the draft!, the 2005 Mock draft. I'm not even gonna go into full detail. I'm sure you guys really saw everyone you have listed!!!??? Furthermore I wasn't even talking about you OR YOUR SITE!!! I WAS SAYING THAT IT WAS TOO FUNNY THAT THEY (CHIRIAEV and ANDRIS BIEDRINS) ARE NOT GONNA PLAY IN THE GAME. AND THE REASON WHY I SAID THIS IS BECAUSE THEY ARE PROBALY TOO SCARRIED TO PLAY BECAUSE OF THEIR DRAFT STOCK. I WASN'T TALKING ABOUT YOUR SITE SO MAYBE YOU SHOULD HAVE PM'ED ME BEFORE JUMPING TO AN ASSUMPTION!!!! Samuel Jackson said it best "Never make assumptions. It only makes an *** out of you and umption."


So much agression Matt. 

Wow.

We don't rip on your site, we've been extremely classy when talking about you guys always stressing that we respect you guys, but it's really hard to do that when they've got a spokesperson like you. 

To refresh your memory (and so people can decide for themselves):

http://www.basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=79492&perpage=15&pagenumber=4

We rippped off your site? That's hilarious man. We already have dozens of profiles of players that you guys have nothing about. How did we get those? Everything on our site is 100% original. Please go into detail cause we'd love to hear about, just hold off on the shift button, you don't want to break it. I didn't know you guys held the copyright to a countdown to the draft (yours if off BTW, you might want to fix that). Someone who contributes to the site, either on or off the record has seen each and every player we have up there. 

About Biedrins and Ivan, they both have their reasons for not attending and they are clearly stated in what I posted. It's not 100% up to them. You know just as well as I do that Chiriaev needs to show that he can compete with players on the same level as him if he wants to be a lottery pick like he and you guys say he will.


----------



## Matthew Maurer

> So much agression Matt.
> 
> Wow.
> 
> We don't rip on your site, we've been extremely classy when talking about you guys always stressing that we respect you guys, but it's really hard to do that when they've got a spokesperson like you.
> 
> To refresh your memory (and so people can decide for themselves):
> 
> http://www.basketballboards.net/for...15&pagenumber=4
> 
> We rippped off your site? That's hilarious man. We already have dozens of profiles of players that you guys have nothing about. How did we get those? Everything on our site is 100% original. Please go into detail cause we'd love to hear about, just hold off on the shift button, you don't want to break it. I didn't know you guys held the copyright to a countdown to the draft (yours if off BTW, you might want to fix that). Someone who contributes to the site, either on or off the record has seen each and every player we have up there.
> 
> About Biedrins and Ivan, they both have their reasons for not attending and they are clearly stated in what I posted. It's not 100% up to them. You know just as well as I do that Chiriaev needs to show that he can compete with players on the same level as him if he wants to be a lottery pick like he and you guys say he will.


Aggression hell no I just don't like people to jump on me when they don't know what they are talking about. Whatever dude you talk a big game I hope for your sake your site backs it up. As far as you guys being a 100% original you have got to be kidding me biter!!! About Biedrins and Ivan I know exactly why they are not gonna play. A spokesperson like me??? Whatever man everyone that knows me can vouch for me. I'm not a disrespectful person nor am I an angry person. I just see things for what they are and call it. If I'm wrong sorry but you attacked me first before you even knew what I was talking about. Maybe you should have PM’ed if you had a grievance with me!.


----------



## bigbabyjesus

i really hope Marvin Williams goes to UNC.

i think he'll have real success in his first year, just want to see UNC tear it up next year.


----------



## truebluefan

> Originally posted by <b>hellbot</b>!
> i really hope Marvin Williams goes to UNC.
> 
> i think he'll have real success in his first year, just want to see UNC tear it up next year.


I hear ya. I was hoping Josh Smith would go to IU next season. But the way it looks now, he won't be there.


----------



## rlucas4257

maybe we can rename this thread the nbadraft.net vs draftcity.com battle royale thread! In all honesty, 2 good website. There is plenty to go around with no animosity


----------



## cheezdoodle

> Originally posted by <b>bullet</b>!
> FYI
> 
> 
> Peter Ramos 7-4 275


Another succesful rip off completed:

http://www.draftcity.com/peterramos.htm 

he's 7-3 BTW.


----------



## Matthew Maurer

Your kidding me right that is your claim to fame. That kid's not half the player Ha Seung-Jin is. ANd just in case you didn't know we have had him in our international lists for 2 years NOW LOL from the time when he was playing High school ball in New York. You have never seen that kid play and your talking like he's Shaq or something ..... Man that is just too funny ...... 2 YEARS NOW CHEEZ 2 YEARS WE HAVE KNOWN ABOUT HIM. Please try again !!!!! But thanks for playing :laugh:


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>Matthew Maurer</b>!
> Your kidding me right that is your claim to fame. That kid's not half the player Ha Seung-Jin is. ANd just in case you didn't know we have had him in our international lists for 2 years NOW LOL from the time when he was playing High school ball in New York. You have never seen that kid play and your talking like he's Shaq or something ..... Man that is just too funny ...... 2 YEARS NOW CHEEZ 2 YEARS WE HAVE KNOWN ABOUT HIM. Please try again !!!!! But thanks for playing :laugh:


Jezus, just drop it. you guys both run good sites. but frankly this thread is the place to be!


----------



## Matthew Maurer

Hey like I said in my first post RLUCAS I wasn't even talking to this man. He just came on and started jumping all over me...


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>Matthew Maurer</b>!
> Hey like I said in my first post RLUCAS I wasn't even talking to this man. He just came on and started talking dumb.


ok but can you 2 get a room? this is a draft thread. And frankly, both of you run very good sites with lots of info. can you tell me something that isnt on draftnet. I want to hear about the next Chinese kid, or Tahirou Sani, or Mo Ke. I dont want to see this bickering.


----------



## cheezdoodle

> Originally posted by <b>Matthew Maurer</b>!
> Your kidding me right that is your claim to fame. That kid's not half the player Ha Seung-Jin is. ANd just in case you didn't know we have had him in our international lists for 2 years NOW LOL from the time when he was playing High school ball in New York. You have never seen that kid play and your talking like he's Shaq or something ..... Man that is just too funny ...... 2 YEARS NOW CHEEZ 2 YEARS WE HAVE KNOWN ABOUT HIM. Please try again !!!!! But thanks for playing :laugh:


Matt,

FYI, he never played high school ball in New York, he moved to Puerto Rico when he was 14 and that was the first time he started played organized basketball. 

I could care less what list you guys have him on, we aren't competing with you guys, if people want to pay to see your list they will do it, I don't and I don't think other people should have to either. We are just sharing what we know about him. 

If you want to hop over to Gainesville right now I'd be happy to throw in the tapes I have of him, there is no way in the world anyone could write something like that off the half a sentence you guys have on him. 

The fact of the matter is that NBA teams have been scouting the hell out of him, so I thought people might like to know who he is. That's what we are all about Matt, no need to get all defensive on us.


----------



## Matthew Maurer

Cheez he played High school ball in New York during 2000-01 season. Furthermore Like I said this whole thing was started becuase you decided you wanted to get defensive.


----------



## cheezdoodle

http://www.bsnpr.com/jugador.asp?r2=462686RWYP&e=CAGUAS

Says he was playing in Puerto Rico that season.


----------



## Matthew Maurer

2000-2001: USA High School

He left to play with them in the middle of the school year


----------



## cheezdoodle

> Originally posted by <b>Matthew Maurer</b>!
> 2000-2001: USA High School
> 
> He left to play with them in the middle of the school year


I dunno Matt you could be right, he's 18 now so in 2000 he was only 14, according to his coach he had only played street ball up until when he found him four years ago, but maybe he embellished a little bit, I'm not sure.

I don't think that's the issue though as far as nba draft fans are concerned. If you guys know about someone you should write something about him. Keeping him on your list doesn't help anybody. That's one of the reasons we started the site, so people would have an alternative source of infomation. I think both sites can coexist very well, and the ones who will gain are the fans.

Hey Bulls fans, you guys watching Luke Jackson right now? I'm suprised no one has really talked too much about him so far in this thread. Seems like just the kind of passing, excellent shooting all around swingman the Bulls could use. Probably not in the lottery but maybe in somewhere in the middle of the first round?


----------



## truebluefan

http://hoopshype.com/draft.htm

Hoopshype mock draft has us taking Howard.


----------



## cheezdoodle

> Originally posted by <b>truebluefan</b>!
> http://hoopshype.com/draft.htm
> 
> Hoopshype mock draft has us taking Howard.


Emeka is first again. Can't say I disagree with that.  

I don't understand that site, though. They have an interview that they did themselves with Splitter and Rudy Fernandez where they said that they almost 100% won't be coming out this year. In spite of that, they continue to put them in their mocks. What gives?


----------



## chifaninca

First off, Matt and Cheez.

You guys are both great with great sites and lots of info. As we have discussed ad nauseum on this board, if some teams can have 15-20 scouts, there is room for two draft gurus on this board.

Besides, if you really want to end the debate - Hire Rlucas.....Ohhhhsorry about that RLucas....I come here to hear his insights , along with so many of the other guys who have posted in this thread.

Now, Jackson and Oregon are having a horrible night. Might work out well for us since it appears Sato won't slip into the second. Maybe Jackson will. The players Michigan have are much more athletic and for the most part, I think Jackson has done well enough against them on defense.

As fr my personal choice for who has the best draft info - that's easy - the RLUCAS PM box. Follwed by a close second with Curry 52.

Cheez, thanks for all of your contributions to this thread. we all really appreciate it. Matt, we look forward to yours as well.


----------



## truebluefan

*Josh Smith loses college first year.*

http://www.indystar.com/articles/5/133857-3835-036.html


----------



## dsouljah9

Well, that would point all signs to Smith entering the draft. He had to know what was going to happen if he did participate in the McDonald's All-Star festivities.


----------



## chifaninca

> Originally posted by <b>dsouljah9</b>!
> Well, that would point all signs to Smith entering the draft. He had to know what was going to happen if he did participate in the McDonald's All-Star festivities.


If he didn't know then he's not to bright. I would assume that he know's what's going on and enjoying the limelight.


----------



## ogbullzfan

I just checked nbadraft.net.....it shows Okafor going to Orlando now. YIKES!!!!!!! Maybe we need to keep playing the NBDL Bulls to better our chances.


----------



## truebluefan

> Originally posted by <b>ogbullzfan</b>!
> I just checked nbadraft.net.....it shows Okafor going to Orlando now. YIKES!!!!!!! Maybe we need to keep playing the NBDL Bulls to better our chances.


Knowing our luck, all three players will play the game of their life tonight and beat Orlando. 

The magic could really use a player like Okafor! No doubt. 

We could use him too.


----------



## curry_52

CSKA defetead TAU and advanced to the Final 4.

Macijauskas:
10 Points
1 Rebound
1 Steal
2 TOs


Nocioni with another great game:
29 Points
4 Rebounds
2 Assists
3 Steals
3 Blocks
2 TOs


----------



## dsouljah9

Nocioni would look great in a Bulls uni :yes:


----------



## curry_52

> Originally posted by <b>dsouljah9</b>!
> Nocioni would look great in a Bulls uni :yes:


:greatjob:


----------



## bullet

New guy on nbadraft

Mile LLic 

another 7-1 guy from Europe

we got a good chance of getting a backup C with all those huge projects

Pavel 7-5
Kosta Perovic 7-2
Ha Seung-Gin 7-3
Peter Ramos 7-4
Llic 7-1
Robert Swift 7-1


Other potential C's or big dudes

Binderis 6-11
Arujau 6-11 (290)
Chirianev 7-1 (no C)
Lamarcus Aldrige 6-11
Sergey Lishchuk 6-11 (another new guy on nbadraft) 
Mo ke 6-10
Nigel Dixon 6-10(320!)
Chris Garnet 6-11
Pape Sow 6-10
Sean Finn 6-11
Uros Slokar 6-11
Erazem Lobrek 6-10

A lot of big guys , many of the HIGH potential guys in this list will slip to 2nd round , your pick??


----------



## Wild Wild West

Just a clarifying point for me. Do I understand it right that Nocioni because of his age is a FA for any team to sign? And that he has some kind of a manageable buyout situation from his foreign contract? 

If that is the case can't the Bulls or any other team be pursuing him now in discussions for next year? If we considered him a pretty good SF prospect, and thought we had a good chance to sign him, seems to me we should be determining our chances with him now, before the draft. It could influence the draft, moving Iguodala or Livingston to the top of our list, if we thought Nocioni could be signed and be our answer at the 3. 

My point is we shouldn't see what happens in the draft and then decide to pursue him if we don't get say Deng or Smith. Unless I am missing something getting a valuable piece without a trade or using a high pick is worth alot, and Nocioni and Iguodala/Livingston, or Okafor/Howard for that matter has to be compared to the straight draft options, and we should be proactive here, not reactive. Do we like him and want him? tHen pursue it now at least with ballpark verbal offers because it could affect the draft strategy significantly.


----------



## 2cool4skool

I can't let this go, THIS KID IS AWESOME!

Ivan Chiriaev (In 21 games @ St. Thomas Aquinas in Oakville, Ontario)

PPG -- 26.8
RPG -- 17.3
APG -- 9.2

If we get the 3rd or 4th pick, I think he would be the best selection we could make. 7'1, PG handles, and 45% from the 3PT line. He looks pretty incredible.

Here's an article and some pics. (http://nbadraft.net/chiriaevstory.asp)


----------



## curry_52

> Originally posted by <b>Wild Wild West</b>!
> Just a clarifying point for me. Do I understand it right that Nocioni because of his age is a FA for any team to sign?


Yes, he is a FA. Many teams are going after him, I guess. We may have an advantage over other teams and that is that we are very thin at SF (Nocioni could be our best SF right now) and Nocioni wants to come to the States to play and not to sit on the bench.


----------



## Wild Wild West

Just a quick thought on Howard. I found it interesting he was talking at the HS All Star game like he considered himself to be more of a small forward. I suspect that comment is more to emphasize his small man ballhandling/passing/ and perimeter shot, which are probably much better than most PF's, but I don't
see scouts and GM's projecting him as a SF.

If he could play the 3, at least against some people then that might might raise his value to us, relative to Okafor. Does anybody think he could play there? In a brief observation from that game his passing/ballhandling looked as good as say Smith.
Personally I don't think he would have an NBA 3 point shot, but probably would be a threat from say 15 feet, with enough mobility and ballhandling/passing to make the SF question at least very interesting.


----------



## ViciousFlogging

we already tried the convert-a-PF-with-a-few-SF-skills-to-SF experiment with Fizer and it didn't work. Also, Chandler was rumored to have some ballhandling and shooting skills at his height and they either never existed or were lost in translation when he got to the NBA. 

if Howard is truly the best player on the board when we draft, we'll have to either take him or make a trade for talent. But I'd tread lightly when it comes to trying to mold a young player to a position that he isn't already ideally equipped to play. Not saying it can't be done, but our track record with it is...questionable.


----------



## arenas809

> Originally posted by <b>ViciousFlogging</b>!
> our track record with it is...questionable.


Our track record with developing talent period is questionable...


----------



## ViciousFlogging

> Originally posted by <b>arenas809</b>!
> 
> 
> Our track record with developing talent period is questionable...


and that's all Pax and Skiles's fault, right? 

that's another reason to take Okafor if possible. He won't need to be coddled and developed almost from scratch. Plus he takes it upon himself to work on his game.


----------



## Rodman

I was just thinking would you do the Boston trade our pick for their 3 picks also if it would be their first 2 picks?


----------



## curry_52

A look at the upcoming draft:

"Rumor has it Chicago is in love with Emeka Okafor and may be willing to trade to acquire him if they do not land the top pick."

2. Chicago Bulls: The Bulls want Meka. Emeka Okafor is the player most around the Bulls say the staff and scouts covet. His 6’9 frame may be undersized to play the center spot, but in Chicago he could play the four. It’s possible the Bulls want to beef up the front line and with Antonio Davis, Jerome Williams, Eddy Curry and Tyson Chandler (who is likely history) the Bulls could build a formidable front line around Meka and the guys they have. If Meka grooms behind Antonio Davis who may have one more solid season in him, Meka could find worse guys to learn the game from. If Tyson Chandler and a scrub could insure the top pick, don’t be surprised is the Bulls make a deal guaranteeing the top pick.


http://www.hoopsworld.com/article_7819.shtml


----------



## bullet

Binderis up to 4!!! on nbadraft after tourny in europe...


----------



## truebluefan

*Christian Drejer will be entered into the draft*

Meanwhile, forward Christian Drejer will be entered into the draft because he left UF in February to play professionally in Spain.

NBA rules state that a player who passes up his eligibility and signs a pro contract is placed in the next draft.

Drejer's mother, Mette, confirmed Wednesday from her home in Denmark that her son will participate in the NBA Draft. "It's his only chance," she said.

If Drejer is drafted, he can return to F.C. Barcelona to honor his contract, reportedly for $800,000, and the team that drafts him would retain his rights. If he isn't drafted, Drejer could enter the NBA as a free agent.

Taken from palm beach post.com


----------



## Chi_Lunatic

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> A look at the upcoming draft:
> 
> "Rumor has it Chicago is in love with Emeka Okafor and may be willing to trade to acquire him if they do not land the top pick."
> 
> 2. Chicago Bulls: The Bulls want Meka. Emeka Okafor is the player most around the Bulls say the staff and scouts covet. His 6’9 frame may be undersized to play the center spot, but in Chicago he could play the four. It’s possible the Bulls want to beef up the front line and with Antonio Davis, Jerome Williams, Eddy Curry and Tyson Chandler (who is likely history) the Bulls could build a formidable front line around Meka and the guys they have. If Meka grooms behind Antonio Davis who may have one more solid season in him, Meka could find worse guys to learn the game from. If Tyson Chandler and a scrub could insure the top pick, don’t be surprised is the Bulls make a deal guaranteeing the top pick.
> 
> 
> http://www.hoopsworld.com/article_7819.shtml


who in their right mind would trade their #1 pick (most likely okafor) for tyson chandler?


----------



## ViciousFlogging

> Originally posted by <b>Chi_Lunatic</b>!
> 
> 
> who in their right mind would trade their #1 pick (most likely okafor) for tyson chandler?


I think the article meant that the Bulls would think about packaging their own pick (2-5 or 6) along with Chandler to move up the few spots to #1. Not that Chandler himself would fetch the #1.


----------



## rlucas4257

Insider reports that Martynas Andrievikicius is out of this draft. Which is a bit of a shocker since he was a top 5 pick in all liklihood and since he has had a good u18 in europe. Insider also reports that Tiaggo Splitter, out of the blue, is in the draft. He should be picked 9-14 in my opinion. It was unlikely he would declare but apparently now has a buyout in place


----------



## Lusty RaRue

*Educate me on why Andre Iguana is so highly thought of please.*



> Originally posted by <b>bullet</b>!
> Well,I do agree Deng is the better man for us,I can't say he's comparable to Iguolada!
> while Deng has much more scoring abilities,Iguodala is the better athlete and better then Deng in every other aspect on court.this reason alone - Dengs options on offense - makes him a complete player and quite a 'close to pefect' sf ! he does everything well,and he's still getting better!


Edit: Help is requested from all who have an opinion, not just bullet.

I haven't seen as much college ball as I usually do and so I only have stat sheet reading and posts and scouting reports from draft sites to go on on this guy. Usually I'd just say here's a guy with the body of a 2 and the game of a 3 and dismiss him going as high as he's projected (especially for a team that shoots so poorly as the Bull). 

I've read all the posts on this thread and there are enough favorable posts about him from posters I respect and he seems to have "staying power" on the mocks so I can't disregard him as an option.

At present for me it's Deng all over Iggy Pop if for no other reason than that he's 6'8" and I'd rather have 3 than a 2 who plays like a 3.

What comes through is:
athleticism, passing, defense
but problems scoring or at least shooting and a size relative to game issue

I guess I'm missing something.
How does he fit? What role/position etc. does he play on the Bull?
Can you help a dummy out? 
Thanks.

P.S.: At present for me it's Deng or trade the pick.


----------



## truebluefan

Marvin williams is leaning towards going to NC! It is in hoopshype today.


----------



## truebluefan

I am with ya Lusty. If we have a chance to get Deng, we get him. I may add if we can get Okafor we get him. All others should be packaged in a trade.


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>truebluefan</b>!
> Marvin williams is leaning towards going to NC! It is in hoopshype today.


thats too bad. he would be making a huge mistake by going to college. yep, i said it.


----------



## chifaninca

Wow, RLUCAS, is that because you dislike NC or because Williams is a finished product?


I don't think going to college is a mistake for any player in any sport. Take a insurance policy out on your self to protect against injury to reduce the impact of the only scenario that is negative.

After that, there are no finished products coming out. LeBron and KG were the all-time exceptions. I don't believe that guys don't gain something, even if it's humility or extra desire, by going to college and playing.

Rlucas, I gotta believe that's the scout and Bulls fan in you commenting. BTW - I don't think Williams was even on Paxson's limited radar. So, let him go to NC for a year or two and we can grab him with our mid-round pick in next years first round.


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>chifaninca</b>!
> Wow, RLUCAS, is that because you dislike NC or because Williams is a finished product?
> 
> 
> I don't think going to college is a mistake for any player in any sport. Take a insurance policy out on your self to protect against injury to reduce the impact of the only scenario that is negative.
> 
> After that, there are no finished products coming out. LeBron and KG were the all-time exceptions. I don't believe that guys don't gain something, even if it's humility or extra desire, by going to college and playing.
> 
> Rlucas, I gotta believe that's the scout and Bulls fan in you commenting. BTW - I don't think Williams was even on Paxson's limited radar. So, let him go to NC for a year or two and we can grab him with our mid-round pick in next years first round.


I am actually looking at it from a business perspective. This kid is a 10-15 pick. He can get paid and take care of his family for life. Now he is going to UNC where Roy Williams has said he will come off the bench. If you arent going to play much, you might as well get paid for it. My guess is that he hurts his stock by going to UNC. He is going to be a very good player. But he probably cost himself 2 or 3 years of earnings with this move. 

Hope all is well Chifanica. Havent seen you around in awhile


----------



## chifaninca

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hope all is well Chifanica. Havent seen you around in awhile


Thanks,

Things are well. I am getting Married in May, switched jobs this past week and am trying to buy a house. So, life's been a bit busy. Plus, watching the Bulls has not been an excuse my fiancee would accept recently. She has become a Chicago sports fan, but quipped "If we're gonna spend time watching this poor of basketball we can atleast go see the Clippers in person!" Ouch!

She did however say that "the Bulls need that guy" after watching both Okafor and Deng play during the tournament. I can't argue with that wisdom.

I see what you are saying about Marvin but I think he can rise to the top. I also don't think Paxson would trade down, nor would Boston unless we could guarantee them Okafor. i just don't see Paxson gambling this year.

Hope things are well with you.

Chifaninca


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>chifaninca</b>!
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Things are well. I am getting Married in May, switched jobs this past week and am trying to buy a house. So, life's been a bit busy. Plus, watching the Bulls has not been an excuse my fiancee would accept recently. She has become a Chicago sports fan, but quipped "If we're gonna spend time watching this poor of basketball we can atleast go see the Clippers in person!" Ouch!
> 
> She did however say that "the Bulls need that guy" after watching both Okafor and Deng play during the tournament. I can't argue with that wisdom.
> 
> I see what you are saying about Marvin but I think he can rise to the top. I also don't think Paxson would trade down, nor would Boston unless we could guarantee them Okafor. i just don't see Paxson gambling this year.
> 
> Hope things are well with you.
> 
> Chifaninca


JC, and that doesnt stand for Jamal Crawford, your busy. Congrats on the new job, home and wedding. She sounds like a catch. Any woman you can talk sports with makes your life 5x easier.


----------



## bullet

Did u catch Portlands PPD's words about OKAFUR???



> Uh-oh-kafor: This doesn't sound good. Here's Portland player personnel director Mark Warkentien on Connecticut star Emeka Okafor: "Okafor is the Shane Battier at his position in this draft. He is an effective player, a wonderful off-the-court guy, a team guy. There is a place for him in this league. But in terms of NBA small forwards, how much does Battier affect a game? I'll be interested to see how [Okafor] impacts the league. Some people are comparing him to the likes of Alonzo Mourning or Bill Russell. Come on. Shane was a No. 6 pick and probably should have gone somewhere between 10 and 12. Okafor should be a five, six or seven pick."


link 

Maybe he's trying to get him at 14th???:grinning:


----------



## curry_52

Tau 98
Murcia 89

Nocioni:
36 minutes
30 Points
9/13 2PT FG
2/4 3PT FG
6/8 FT
6 Rebounds
1 Assist
1 Block

Note: Macijauskas didnt play


----------



## rlucas4257

Pavel out for a month with a broken hand


----------



## dsouljah9

Nocioni would make a great Bull :yes:


----------



## rlucas4257

Nocioni is pretty much earmarked to be going to Philadelphia. They have been negotiating the buyout with Tau on his behalf so he pretty much has to be going there barring some last minute change of heart


----------



## curry_52

Nocioni and Macijauskas status:

Nocioni- His buyout is 3M (Euros), and thats a hell lot of money. If Im not mistaken, thats like US$ 4M. He wants to stay in Spain, because he is comfortable, he loves the country and theres no language barrier. He would only leave his team for the NBA if he gets a VERY good contract AND playing time. At this point, playing time is more important than money. 
So looking at his situation, I think its probable that he will stay over there.

Macijauskas- His buyout is exactly the same (3M Euros). He signed a three year deal with TAU during this past offseason and can opt out for the NBA after the first 2 seasons. 

I talked with a guy from there and told me the Bulls are after Macijauskas. 
Philly, Detroit, Minny and San Antonio are after Nocioni.


----------



## AMR

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> 
> Walter Herrmann
> Felipe Reyes
> Kaspars Kambala
> Donatas Slanina


Herrmann made a big impact in his ACB rookie season doing something close to 20-10 with a bad team. He became famous in the All Star and in the dunk contest that you can see here though he didn't win. In the summer, his girlfriend, his mother and his little sister died in a car accident just before that Unicaja, one of the top teams had signed him. He began the season badly, but his recovering. He's an SF, maybe like Nocioni, but worse, not as tough and with worse outside game, but he's spectacular to watch his layups and dunks because he has big hands. Something like the Argentinian Dr.J. Could enter some NBA roster but I don't see him being a starter.

Felipe Reyes is a small but intense PF, great offensive rebounder and can run the fast break. He likes to dunk but lacks shot. But still, he's 1000 times better than Paul Shirley and at least 15 power forwards in the league. Not a difference maker but could help some NBA team.

I don't like Kaspars Kambala. The fact that he's ugly, bald and fat, doesn't make him a 'dominator' or 'intimidator'. Great inside scorer, but he scores everything with the same post move. He doesn't rebound or play any kind of defense. He's limited, but could be a role player.

Donatas Slanina, the worst of these 4 guys. A poor man's Macijauskas, smaller (6'2'' or 6'3'') and not so aggresive. A great shooter but very unidimensional. He won't ever play in the NBA.


----------



## unBULLievable

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> Nocioni and Macijauskas status:
> 
> Nocioni- His buyout is 3M (Euros), and thats a hell lot of money. If Im not mistaken, thats like US$ 4M. He wants to stay in Spain, because he is comfortable, he loves the country and theres no language barrier. He would only leave his team for the NBA if he gets a VERY good contract AND playing time. At this point, playing time is more important than money.
> So looking at his situation, I think its probable that he will stay over there.
> 
> Macijauskas- His buyout is exactly the same (3M Euros). He signed a three year deal with TAU during this past offseason and can opt out for the NBA after the first 2 seasons.
> 
> I talked with a guy from there and told me the Bulls are after Macijauskas.
> Philly, Detroit, Minny and San Antonio are after Nocioni.


Thanks curry52!!!!

Macijauskas has been on the Bulls radar screen for a long time.

Pax should go after Nocioni too.

But getting Macijauskas will be super.


----------



## arenas809

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> Nocioni is pretty much earmarked to be going to Philadelphia. They have been negotiating the buyout with Tau on his behalf so he pretty much has to be going there barring some last minute change of heart


----------



## AMR

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> Tau 98
> Murcia 89
> 
> Nocioni:
> 36 minutes
> 30 Points
> 9/13 2PT FG
> 2/4 3PT FG
> 6/8 FT
> 6 Rebounds
> 1 Assist
> 1 Block
> 
> Note: Macijauskas didnt play


I was there and... Nocioni was *impressive*, the outside shots, the dunks, even a great block on Brent Scott, Murcia's center.... Andres is close to being unstoppable in Europe..
Tiago Splitter, a supposed lottery pick, had playing time but didn't show anything, too soft for being an inside player in the NBA and he didn't have any offensive presence. He also missed a lot of free throws. He isn't NBA ready yet.
Luis Scola didn't play too much, this game wasn't important so Splitter, Betts and Kornel David played more than him.
And Macijauskas.... we the Murcia fans were chanting 'Queremos ver a Macijauskas!!!!' we want to see Macijauskas, but he didn't play...:upset:


----------



## curry_52

> Originally posted by <b>AMR</b>!
> 
> 
> I was there and... Nocioni was *impressive*, the outside shots, the dunks, even a great block on Brent Scott, Murcia's center.... Andres is close to being unstoppable in Europe..
> Tiago Splitter, a supposed lottery pick, had playing time but didn't show anything, too soft for being an inside player in the NBA and he didn't have any offensive presence. He also missed a lot of free throws. He isn't NBA ready yet.
> Luis Scola didn't play too much, this game wasn't important so Splitter, Betts and Kornel David played more than him.
> And Macijauskas.... we the Murcia fans were chanting 'Queremos ver a Macijauskas!!!!' we want to see Macijauskas, but he didn't play...:upset:


You, as a guy that have watched them both (Nocioni and Macijauskas) more often than me and almost every poster right here, who do you think is the better player? The better fit for the Bulls?
Any other note or comment from the game?
Thanks

:yes:


----------



## AMR

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> 
> 
> You, as a guy that have watched them both (Nocioni and Macijauskas) more often than me and almost every poster right here, who do you think is the better player? The better fit for the Bulls?
> Any other note or comment from the game?
> Thanks
> 
> :yes:


I think anybody that follows ACB would agree with me in that Nocioni is the better overall player, even the best player for the NBA style of game, but about who'd be the better fit for the Bulls... I think Macijauskas would play very well with Kirk Hinrich at the point and he'd be a starter because the Bulls need some outside scoring and if Jannero Pargo is playing so much... Arvydas would fit greatly, with the only problem of defending taller SGs.
Anyway that doesn't mean that Nocioni wouldn't fit in the Bulls, Nocioni could fit in any NBA team, he's the perfect example of why players should stay in Europe for developing correctly, like Ginobili.
About the game... it wasn't very competitive because everything was decided, it was the end of regular season, but Nocioni had a tough matchup for him, Quique Barcenas, a scrub, most people will say, but he did a great job over Bodiroga and made Barcelona lost against the worst team of the league, Murcia. Barcenas is a tweener ,taller than Nocioni or Bodiroga and a defensive specialist... more than defensive, a dirty game specialist, similar to Bruce Bowen, but he couldn't do anything for stopping Nocioni because he expected Nocioni to penetrate and try to score inside but he made a great game from outside, that was one of his weaknesses a few years ago...


----------



## curry_52

> Originally posted by <b>AMR</b>!
> 
> 
> I think anybody that follows ACB would agree with me in that Nocioni is the better overall player, even the best player for the NBA style of game, but about who'd be the better fit for the Bulls... I think Macijauskas would play very well with Kirk Hinrich at the point and he'd be a starter because the Bulls need some outside scoring and if Jannero Pargo is playing so much... Arvydas would fit greatly, with the only problem of defending taller SGs.
> Anyway that doesn't mean that Nocioni wouldn't fit in the Bulls, Nocioni could fit in any NBA team, he's the perfect example of why players should stay in Europe for developing correctly, like Ginobili.
> About the game... it wasn't very competitive because everything was decided, it was the end of regular season, but Nocioni had a tough matchup for him, Quique Barcenas, a scrub, most people will say, but he did a great job over Bodiroga and made Barcelona lost against the worst team of the league, Murcia. Barcenas is a tweener ,taller than Nocioni or Bodiroga and a defensive specialist... more than defensive, a dirty game specialist, similar to Bruce Bowen, but he couldn't do anything for stopping Nocioni because he expected Nocioni to penetrate and try to score inside but he made a great game from outside, that was one of his weaknesses a few years ago...


I feel the same way. I want the Bulls to sign Nocioni but it seems they are going after Macijauskas.


----------



## AMR

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> 
> 
> I feel the same way. I want the Bulls to sign Nocioni but it seems they are going after Macijauskas.


I'd like to say that Macas is more open to the NBA than Nocioni.. he's said sometimes that his dream is playing in the NBA and his buyout isn't so closed, but Nocioni belongs to the 'If there's a good offer I'll go but NBA isn't my main objective' club, as his teammate Scola or other European stars like Bodiroga or Jasikevicius


----------



## Zalgirinis

> Originally posted by <b>AMR</b>!
> 
> Donatas Slanina, the worst of these 4 guys. A poor man's Macijauskas, smaller (6'2'' or 6'3'') and not so aggresive. A great shooter but very unidimensional. He won't ever play in the NBA.


Oh my, I just now noticed this thread talking not just only about Europeans, but about my Lithuanian guy Arvydas Macijauskas. But it seems everybody knows him well with the help of other posters, so i wont duplicate.

As for another Lith guy Donatas Slanina. AMR was hard on him, but hes probably right. Slanina isnt a NBA type of player, though of course I could find worser SGs, but Slanina isnt meant for NBA.

Felipe Reyes and Kaspars Kambala. Well, I have seen these guys not so many times as AMR and also just in their National teams and not clubs. Felipe Reyes in Spain's NT always had Pau Gasol in front of him, so maybe he didnt show his best, but anyway he didnt impress me and I doubt he could ever play any better role in NBA than Okulaja for example. Buts he sure a good player in Euro level.

Kaspars Kambala. Well yea, it seems he has just one post move, but it works great for him in Europe and I think with such his body structure he wouldnt look lost in NBA either. And I see him as "dominator", well he was so every time he played vs my Lithuanian NT


----------



## AMR

> Originally posted by <b>Zalgirinis</b>!Felipe Reyes and Kaspars Kambala. Well, I have seen these guys not so many times as AMR and also just in their National teams and not clubs. Felipe Reyes in Spain's NT always had Pau Gasol in front of him, so maybe he didnt show his best, but anyway he didnt impress me and I doubt he could ever play any better role in NBA than Okulaja for example. Buts he sure a good player in Euro level.
> 
> Kaspars Kambala. Well yea, it seems he has just one post move, but it works great for him in Europe and I think with such his body structure he wouldnt look lost in NBA either. And I see him as "dominator", well he was so every time he played vs my Lithuanian NT


Did Latvia won any of these games against Lithuania???
Because his games against Barcelona in the last years are very representative... he scored 40 points last year with Efes Pilsen, and always scores a lot against Barça (exactly against Roberto Dueñas, a 7'3'' C), but never wins... before his first game with Real Madrid against Barcelona he told the media he was going to beat Dueñas and all the Barça centers... and well, he scored something like 27 points, I can't remember, but Barcelona won because the rebounding and the intelligent defense of the Barça big men. In the last quarter when they began to double team him
he did nothing... and in defense he allows a lot of rebounds.


----------



## AMR

and Felipe Reyes hasn't shown his best game with the National Team.. in the last Eurobasket he played injured, but in the olympics he could start over Garbajosa if he hasn't problems


----------



## Zalgirinis

> Originally posted by <b>AMR</b>!
> 
> Did Latvia won any of these games against Lithuania???


Yes, once they won and once they lost only by 1 point and after OT. Im refering only to official games, because I think Lithuania won all friendly games and its not the main factor to judge about player perfomances.

So in both official games Kambala was one ofthe main guys. The first game was in 2001 European championship. Lithuanian NT wasnt well prepared for that tournament and we played horribly, but anyway we were crushed by 18 points in elimanation game and were out of Eurobasket. Kambala had 9 points and 11 rebounds. The main job was done by Latvian three point shooters, but Kambala's defence was also the factor as all Liths were afraid to get inside the paint.

The other game was in last Eurochamp in Sweden. It was first game of championship and it was called the revenge game (for that thing in Turkey 2001). Anyway for most of time it didnt go well as Lithuania were trailing all the time. Kambala was unstopable when he had the ball - 21 point and 8 rebounds. It was good that we had Macijauskas, who saved the game for us with incredible 3pointer and thanks for Jasikevicius, who made last 2 FTs with 3 seconds to go in OT to give us a lead.


----------



## curry_52

Telfair headed to the NBA (Per New York Post):

While he still has not made it official, it appears to be just a matter of time before Sebastian Telfair announces his intention to enter the NBA Draft. 
The latest signal that the 6-foot point guard will bypass college is his departure from Lincoln H.S. since the end of last week. He is not expected to return to the school until May 3, one week before the deadline to enter his name into the draft. 

According to principal Corinne Heslin, the school received a letter informing it of Telfair's absence, citing family reasons. 

But sources have told The Post that he is working out at an undisclosed location in preparation for the June draft, where he has a chance to be a lottery pick. 

"The letter from the parents said that he had to deal with family issues and that he was going to miss school," said Heslin, who added that she was unaware of exactly when Telfair would be back at the Coney Island school. "It's not something we excused or didn't excuse. While we have a championship basketball program, our first priority is education." 

Telfair, who signed with Louisville, is on track to graduate and meets all NCAA academic requirements. Several teachers said that his attendance and grades have been consistently good. 

As for when Telfair might make his decision official, his father Sylvester wouldn't give specifics yesterday. 



"I'm not going to comment on that," he said. "Something is going to happen soon." 

He also refused to comment on where his son was. 

Sources said that Telfair may make his announcement the week of May 3 to coincide with a potential $10 million shoe deal with one of the major companies, possibly adidas. 

Telfair struggled throughout much of Lincoln's playoff run to the PSAL title and state Federation championship game, but in the two All-Star games that he appeared in, he impressed scouts with his passing and ability to run an offense despite not shooting well. 

He has had numerous NBA scouts on his trail throughout the season, including the Clippers, who attended some of his practices. They hold the seventh pick in this year's draft and are among several NBA teams in dire need of a point guard.


----------



## mr.ankle20

telfair is not ready for the nba . this guy has no jumpshot and his defense is pretty suspect


----------



## curry_52

Hoopsworld Mock Drafts:
http://www.hoopsworld.com/article_8048.shtml

One of em has the Bulls taking Ben Gordon with the second pick :uhoh:


----------



## curry_52

Has anyone ever seen Peter John Ramos play?


----------



## mxr2000

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> Has anyone ever seen Peter John Ramos play?


 me


----------



## mxr2000

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> Has anyone ever seen Peter John Ramos play?


 you will have your chance to see PJ Ramos against the Dream Team on the first day of the Summer Olimpics Games. besides that USA team will do some training games with Puerto Rico National Team before summer games. cheers


----------



## curry_52

> Originally posted by <b>mxr2000</b>!
> me


And.....what can you tell us about his game?


----------



## smARTmouf

Here goes my sedative special of the 2004 NBA draft....



Kevin Martin


----------



## curry_52

All-ACB Team:
Bennett
Bodiroga
Nocioni
Roe 
Scola


----------



## LaurenLuvsDaBulls

Some of you have complained about Paxson not going to Europe to scout.

I find it funny that some Boston fans are complaining that Ainge is over there scouting

http://www.basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=91295&forumid=34


----------



## LaurenLuvsDaBulls

Do you think Boston would trade their first round picks 2 out of the 3 for our no. 1 pick? Maybe package one of our core players and match salaries to get Paul Pierce?

As much as I like Okafor, I think we'd do better with 2 first round picks


----------



## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>LaurenLuvsDaBulls</b>!
> Do you think Boston would trade their first round picks 2 out of the 3 for our no. 1 pick? Maybe package one of our core players and match salaries to get Paul Pierce?
> 
> As much as I like Okafor, I think we'd do better with 2 first round picks


I would trade our pick, especially if we cant get Smith or Deng (meaning picking 5) for all of Utahs or Bostons draft. Utah would be a more likely team to deal with. THey might be interested in Pavel or Biedrinns


----------



## Rodman

What about trading first round picks with Atlanta when we pick in front of them? Our one pick for their 2 picks.

Or something like we trade with the Bobcats, trade Jamal for their first round draft pick and they take some ugly contract of ours in the expansion draft? In that case we would have 2 very high draft picks and trading possilities would be a lot better. Yes we lose Jamal but the possibility to get rid of Erob, JYD or Davis would be the icing on the cake. 
The Bobcats could start with Jamal at the point, wow, that's a pretty nice startoff.


----------



## LaurenLuvsDaBulls

> Originally posted by <b>Rodman</b>!
> What about trading first round picks with Atlanta when we pick in front of them? Our one pick for their 2 picks.


All depends on if Atlanta isn't in the top 3 lottery. I'm betting they want homeboy Dwight Howard bad but they also are in desperate need of depth everywhere. I think they'd rather trade just one pick than two. 



> Or something like we trade with the Bobcats, trade Jamal for their first round draft pick and they take some ugly contract of ours in the expansion draft? In that case we would have 2 very high draft picks and trading possilities would be a lot better. Yes we lose Jamal but the possibility to get rid of Erob, JYD or Davis would be the icing on the cake.
> The Bobcats could start with Jamal at the point, wow, that's a pretty nice startoff.


Jamal is a restricted free agent so I don't know you are going to trade him. does a sign and trade work with an expansion team without knowing their salary situation? How do we get rid of Erob JYD and Antonio Davis to Charlotte and get their pick? I thought draft picks had no monetary value. 

Aren't we just hoping that we leave Erob unprotected and Charlotte grabs him?


----------



## syxxisgod

well im am hoping that to the fullest but say you guys are acting like we already got the first pick orlando can get the first pick to so then if we are left with the 2nd pick and no okafor then next taget would be deng right


----------



## curry_52

Nocioni named ACB's MVP  
Too bad he will stay in Spain


----------



## InPaxWeTrust

> Nocioni named ACB's MVP
> Too bad he will stay in Spain


Is this for certain? He will not be in NBA next year? Last I heard was that Philly was the frontrunner and may actually be working something out to try and make him a Sixer? Is that not happening now? As for the Bulls though Macijauskas is the guy I want anyway.


----------



## curry_52

> Originally posted by <b>Basghetti80</b>!
> 
> 
> Is this for certain? He will not be in NBA next year? Last I heard was that Philly was the frontrunner and may actually be working something out to try and make him a Sixer? Is that not happening now? As for the Bulls though Macijauskas is the guy I want anyway.


I would be shocked if either Nocioni or Macijauskas are in the NBA next season.


----------



## k0be

dunnoooooooo


----------



## Benny the Bull

I don't think Paxson will draft a high school player, but I'm sure he likes to hear things like this.

http://www.nypost.com/sports/20116.htm



> "I'm very determined. I'll do whatever it takes to get there. I'm going to keep working hard. That's what got me here, and I'm not going to stop now," said Smith, tabbed by NBADraft.net as the 14th pick and by HoopsHype.com as the 17th choice, Vince Carter with "unlimited" range.
> 
> "If [I go to a veteran team] . . . I just know I'm going to have to work harder than this guy to get on the court, so every time he's out partying, I'm going to be in the gym working, or if he's asleep, I'm going to be in the gym," Smith added.


As long as this isn't J.R. Smith just saying the right things, then Paxson may have to give the kid serious consideration, since he wants guys who are willing to continually work on their games.


----------



## curry_52

Mike Kahn early mock draft:

Orlando: Emeka Okafor 6-10, 250, C, Connecticut 
Chicago: Dwight Howard, 6-11, 230, F, Georgia high school 
Washington: Luol Deng, 6-8, 220, F, Duke 
Charlotte: Shaun Livingston, 6-7, 190, G, Illinois high school 
Los Angeles Clippers: Devin Harris, 6-3, 190, G, Wisconsin 
Atlanta: Josh Smith, 6-8, 220, F, Georgia high school 
Phoenix: Kosta Perovic, 7-2, 260, C, Serbia 
Toronto: Jameer Nelson, 6-0, 185, G, St. Joseph's 
Philadelphia: Andris Biedrins, 6-11, 240, F-C, Latvia 
Cleveland: Josh Childress, 6-7, 210, G-F, Stanford 
Golden State: Peter Ramos, 7-4, 260, C, Cuba 
Seattle: Al Jefferson, 6-10, 250, F, Mississippi high school 
Portland: Ben Gordon, 6-2, 190, G, Connecticut

Like James, the 6-11 Howard from Atlanta has everyone drooling ... especially the Hawks, should they win the May 26 lottery or finish second. One NBA exec, using Washington's talented but still developing Kwame Brown (the No. 1 pick overall out of high school in 2001) as a comparable talent coming out of high school, said there's a lot more to Howard. 

"He actually looks more like Tim Duncan to me," the source said. "He is very smart, very controlled and has a real presence in the game." 


http://www.cbs.sportsline.com/nba/story/7308013


----------



## mxr2000

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> Mike Kahn early mock draft:
> 
> Orlando: Emeka Okafor 6-10, 250, C, Connecticut
> Chicago: Dwight Howard, 6-11, 230, F, Georgia high school
> Washington: Luol Deng, 6-8, 220, F, Duke
> Charlotte: Shaun Livingston, 6-7, 190, G, Illinois high school
> Los Angeles Clippers: Devin Harris, 6-3, 190, G, Wisconsin
> Atlanta: Josh Smith, 6-8, 220, F, Georgia high school
> Phoenix: Kosta Perovic, 7-2, 260, C, Serbia
> Toronto: Jameer Nelson, 6-0, 185, G, St. Joseph's
> Philadelphia: Andris Biedrins, 6-11, 240, F-C, Latvia
> Cleveland: Josh Childress, 6-7, 210, G-F, Stanford
> Golden State: Peter Ramos, 7-4, 260, C, Cuba
> Seattle: Al Jefferson, 6-10, 250, F, Mississippi high school
> Portland: Ben Gordon, 6-2, 190, G, Connecticut
> 
> Like James, the 6-11 Howard from Atlanta has everyone drooling ... especially the Hawks, should they win the May 26 lottery or finish second. One NBA exec, using Washington's talented but still developing Kwame Brown (the No. 1 pick overall out of high school in 2001) as a comparable talent coming out of high school, said there's a lot more to Howard.
> 
> "He actually looks more like Tim Duncan to me," the source said. "He is very smart, very controlled and has a real presence in the game."
> 
> 
> http://www.cbs.sportsline.com/nba/story/7308013


 from where you get your info? *Golden State: Peter Ramos, 7-4, 260, C, Cuba * this guy is from Puerto Rico


----------



## curry_52

> Originally posted by <b>mxr2000</b>!
> from where you get your info? *Golden State: Peter Ramos, 7-4, 260, C, Cuba * this guy is from Puerto Rico


Good point mxr2000, that takes some credibility away from Kahn.


----------



## bullet

Ryen Gomes will also enter this draft - not bad at 2nd round IMO.


----------



## AMR

> Originally posted by <b>mxr2000</b>!
> from where you get your info? *Golden State: Peter Ramos, 7-4, 260, C, Cuba * this guy is from Puerto Rico


If you go to the website it says Puerto Rico


----------



## thebizkit69u

> Originally posted by <b>AMR</b>!
> 
> 
> If you go to the website it says Puerto Rico


Ramos is Puerto Rican.


----------



## AMR

> Originally posted by <b>thebizkit69u</b>!
> 
> 
> Ramos is Puerto Rican.


have you read the entire post???


----------



## dsouljah9

::in "The Rock's" voice:::

IT DOESN'T MATTER WHERE HE'S FROM, JABRONI!!!


----------



## AMR

Nocioni's famous dunk over Garnett


----------



## curry_52

> Originally posted by <b>AMR</b>!
> Nocioni's famous dunk over Garnett


Thanks to the ACB's board


----------



## bullet

> Originally posted by <b>AMR</b>!
> Nocioni's famous dunk over Garnett


Wow , thanks AMR!


BTW nbadraft has got us picking 7-4 Ramos in the 2nd round?!


----------



## bullet

Checkout this draft thread


----------



## bullet

Josh Smith signed with Adidas - 12 mil contract.

after Telfair - josh is starting to get paid!


----------



## curry_52

Can someone tell me about Peja Samardziski?


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## rlucas4257

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> Can someone tell me about Peja Samardziski?


skilled. very skilled. not athletic. but 7-1 and plays with his head. Nice shot, nice range, uses pump fakes and a smart post game. rebounds through position. great passer. Sort of slow in the open court and not overly quick. But an 18 year old prodigy. Sort of like a young Sabonis, minus the athletic ability. And the kid is impressing everyone


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## DaBullz

I'm going to unstick this thread after the draft.


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## Shinky

Rumor has it that the Clippers have told Dwight Howard that he will be traded to Atlanta.

But I thought a certain poster was pretty much guaranteeing that wouldn't happen?  

I wont mention any names :cough cough arenas cough:


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## InPaxWeTrust

Really shinky? Did you read that somewhere? Is there a link?


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## Shinky

I think it was reported by Jason Golf from the Score. He is covering the draft for them. I am sure something will surface pretty soon.


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## spongyfungy

http://www.tsn.ca/nba/feature.asp?fid=9415

*MOCK* Livingston at no. 2 by the Clippers. That makes no sense. If Atlanta wants Howard bad, you trade. I take either Gordon or Livingston at no.6 (whoevers available)


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## bullet

Updated Mock by draftcity 

we take Donte Smith and Allen in 2nd round


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## bullet

Lawrence Roberts back to Miss state

link


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## bullet

Jameer rocketed to 7 in draftcity!!!


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