# Nets still want Rahim 7/22/04



## Trader Ed (Jun 17, 2002)

Read the article :reporter:

Goodwin, Rahim's agent is still slugging away




> _The Blazers have an abundance of big men and need a two-guard. The Nets have an obvious frontcourt need and are willing to part with Kerry Kittles. The Nets' offer also includes Aaron Williams.
> 
> "We're pushing for a deal with the Blazers where Shareef comes to New Jersey," Goodwin said yesterday. "I'm talking to [team CEO] Rod Thorn and [GM] Ed Stefanski trying to get something done.
> 
> ...




Let us know when your gonna cough up the Clipper or Wash pick along with Kittle and Wililams :wait:


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## Kmurph (May 7, 2003)

I think Nash is angling right here, for POR to even CONSIDER a deal with NJ IMO they need to offer

Kittles, Williams (or Harris) & Collins AND the Clips #1 pick.

We throw them back SAR and Qyntel and\or Stepania.

With NY showing interest, possibly TOR, maybe Nash can benefit from a bidding war.


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## NateBishop3 (Jul 22, 2003)

if we're going to trade Reef they should have to take one of our bad contracts (I.E. DA or Ruben)


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## QRICH (Feb 2, 2004)

Rahim for Kittles/Kristic and/or Clippers or Wizards pick

It would have to be something along those lines. Kittles/Williams just wont get it done. Like Jason Quick said (today on 1080 the fan) Nash has already *rejected* the offer of Kittles/Williams. But the teams are still in talks, but Nash has made it clear it will take more than the package NJ is offering.


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## NateBishop3 (Jul 22, 2003)

how about......

Reef and Patterson to New Jersey

Kittles, Williams, Kristic, and Mourning to Portland


Mourning retires... We get rid of Ruben.... Kittles mans the two spot until we can find a suitable replacement...


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## Yega1979 (Mar 22, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>NateBishop3</b>!
> how about......
> 
> Reef and Patterson to New Jersey
> ...


Exactly, we need to use SAR as DA's ticket out of town.


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## cimalee (Apr 17, 2003)

I wouldnt mind getting the clippers pick


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## Playmaker0017 (Feb 13, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Yega1979</b>!
> Exactly, we need to use SAR as DA's ticket out of town.


WAAAAAAAAY too much salary to be traded there. 

That's just not going to happen. 

Play.


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## Trader Ed (Jun 17, 2002)

http://www.nj.com/sports/ledger/index.ssf?/base/sports-1/1090473108288820.xml','451'



> _According to people with knowledge of both teams' thinking, Blazers general manager John Nash has nixed that trade and wants one of the draft picks the Nets acquired from the Nuggets in the Kenyon Martin deal -- preferably the Clippers' first round pick -- thrown in as a sweetener.
> 
> The Nets, in turn, are saying that's too sweet. They have countered with the Nuggets' 2006 first-round pick, but that's not to the Blazers' taste.
> 
> ...


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## Blazer Freak (Jul 11, 2004)

Hmm... It just go take time people. But I definatly think that there will be another trade in 1 week. Just my guess.

PS: Trader Bob check you PM's.

Blazer Freak.


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## ABM (Dec 30, 2002)

If the Clips pick is "too sweet", then why not throw our 1st Rounder (high-teens, or 20-something) at them. perhaps that would put them over the edge? :whoknows:


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## Blazer Freak (Jul 11, 2004)

I highly doubt we make the Playoffs this year, with the team we have now. So again, our pick could be 10-13ish, we might strike gold and get a higher one. Anyways, throw a prospect at them, of a few 2nds.


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## Leroy131 (Mar 11, 2004)

The Nets are being petty if they insist that Jason "Backup Center" Collins is off limits. That being said, I'd rather have the Clip's pick in 2 years and settle for Aaron Williams. As much as we could use another solid shooter at the 2, Damon/DA/VanExel/Kittles is a little bit too crowded of a backcourt IMO. I'm not sure what effect Aaron's 2-year contract would have on our potential cap space for next summer, but it definitely wouldn't help...


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## Crimson the Cat (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Kmurph</b>We throw them back SAR and Qyntel and\or Stepania.


Personally, I think Stepania's an asset to the team. I wouldn't part with him.

The Nets, according to Quick, won't part with Collins. If that's true, I agree that Kittles, Williams, and the pick might not get this deal done, although I'd probably do it.

It'd be smart to counter with a package SAR and Patterson. If they won't give us Collins, then they'll have to take on Patterson.


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## Scout226 (Sep 17, 2003)

Honestly, I'm about done with the NJ deal. If the pick is "Too Sweet", then forget it. I still don't like the deal, unless there is a follow up trade to get rid of DA. After getting NVE, and putting out an offer for Hassel, I don't think we need Kittles.. 

If NJ is so interested in SAR, cut off talks and let them wait a few more weeks. Then see how desparate they are..


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## yakbladder (Sep 13, 2003)

Yeah, that's one too many guards for me. I guess we could always play small ball. At least it's exciting...


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## Trader Ed (Jun 17, 2002)

Nash will hold his ground. By Labor day NJ will cave in and give us the pick


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## Yega1979 (Mar 22, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Playmaker0017</b>!
> 
> 
> WAAAAAAAAY too much salary to be traded there.
> ...


NOOOOOOOOOOOOOT if we take the same amount in return within ~115%.(or trade with a team below the cap)

So of course it can happen.


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## Scout226 (Sep 17, 2003)

*FYI-*

JQ just said he was just informed that Ed Stefanski(sp?) is on a flight out to Portland for some discussions with Nash..


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## cimalee (Apr 17, 2003)

*Re: FYI-*



> Originally posted by <b>Scout226</b>!
> JQ just said he was just informed that Ed Stefanski(sp?) is on a flight out to Portland for some discussions with Nash..



I just heard it this sucks unless they throw in a pick


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## Trader Ed (Jun 17, 2002)

That would be funny. :rofl:

Isn't Nash in SLC????


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## Leroy131 (Mar 11, 2004)

Well, according to Quick yesterday Nash already turned down the deal without a pick, but would become very interested if they included the Clippers pick...


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## cimalee (Apr 17, 2003)

is the clippers pick lottery protected


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## Crimson the Cat (Dec 30, 2002)

Well, I'm cool with it.

Why would he have to come out here though? We do have phones.


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## Storyteller (Dec 31, 2002)

*Re: FYI-*



> Originally posted by <b>Scout226</b>!
> JQ just said he was just informed that Ed Stefanski(sp?) is on a flight out to Portland for some discussions with Nash..


Actually, Quick said he's on his way to SLC to talk with Nash.


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## Leroy131 (Mar 11, 2004)

The Clippers pick is lotto protected next year, but no protection the year after. It wouldn't take much luck for that pick to be in the top 5, top 10 very likely...


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## Storyteller (Dec 31, 2002)

I asked this question during the chat, but it never got brought up. 

I see a real problem with trading for Kittles now unless one of the other three guards (DA, Stoudamire or NVE) is targeted to be traded elsewhere.

We all know that Damon expects to play 30-35 MPG and that he won't be happy sitting at the end of games and that he wants to start.

DA has also made it clear that "he didn't sign on to be a bench player".

Van Exel told Quick that he expects to play 28-30 MPG, although he's fine with coming off the bench.

Now the Blazers add Kittles to the mix. So either Kittles will only get garbage minutes (unlikely) or he will take significant minutes away from 2 or 3 of the others.

Does anyone else see a potential problem brewing? I said last week that one of my votes against obtaining NVE was that I didn't want to see the season become a "whine-fest" about playing time. I could easily see it happening if the rumored NJ trade goes down.


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## riehldeal (May 11, 2003)

*if DA is not included in Kittles deal...*

rest assurred that he will be dealt else where in another deal before the season starts....Nash isnt stupid,

damon NVE DA kittles...is one too many and that means bye bye DA

PG- Damon...NVE...Telfair
SG- Kittles...NVE...Woods
SF- Miles...Patterson...Khryapa
PF- Randolph...Williams
C- Ratliff...Stepania

i think that team given an entire season together definately atleast gets the 8th seed and makes the playoffs


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## Crimson the Cat (Dec 30, 2002)

*SCBF* - I'm not that worried about that. The expiring contracts of Stoudamire and Kittles will be very attractive to a lot of teams, especially considering both players are quality starters.

I think we'll see Kittles used sparingly and then dealt closer to the deadline.

Not ideal, but better than keeping Rahim, IMO.


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## Storyteller (Dec 31, 2002)

riehldeal & Crimson -

Thus my caveat of "unless there's another trade".....


Of course, what if the NJ deal could become a 3 way deal.....


PORTLAND sends Shareef Abdur-Rahim and Darius Miles (S&T starting at $5.5 million) to New Jersey

PORTLAND receives Richard Jefferson, Aaron Williams and Alonzo Mourning


NEW JERSEY sends Richard Jefferson, Aaron Williams and Alonzo Mourning to Portland
NEW JERSEY sends Kerry Kittles and a future #1 pick to Atlanta.

NEW JERSEY receives Shareef Abdur-Rahim, Darius Miles and Boris Diaw


ATLANTA sends Boris Diaw to New Jersey

ATLANTA receives Kerry Kittles and a future #1 pick


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## Yega1979 (Mar 22, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>ABM</b>!
> If the Clips pick is "too sweet", then why not throw our 1st Rounder (high-teens, or 20-something) at them. perhaps that would put them over the edge? :whoknows:


Heck no, the Nets are in a more desperate situation than we are! They need a decent PF or else Kidd will want to be traded. The balance of talent is clearly in Portland's favor in this trade, if New Jersey wants a chance at this deal, they must include a 1st rounder..at least!

Also, aren't we getting Denver's 1st round pick? That will likely be lower than the Nets(and ours).


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## Crimson the Cat (Dec 30, 2002)

*SCBF* - I'd sure love that. If Nash pulls that off, I'm in complete awe. You're jones'n for Jefferson, aren't ya?


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## Storyteller (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Crimson the Cat</b>!
> *SCBF* - I'd sure love that. If Nash pulls that off, I'm in complete awe. You're jones'n for Jefferson, aren't ya?


I think he'll be better than Miles in the end. So, yes....


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## Storyteller (Dec 31, 2002)

Or how about this 3 team trade idea:

PORTLAND trades Shareef Abdur-Rahim, Derek Anderson and Darius Miles (sign and trade, 3 year contract starting at $5.2 million in 2003-04) to New Jersey
PORTLAND trades the rights to Sergei Monia to Toronto

PORTLAND receives Vince Carter. Alonzo Mourning and Aaron Williams

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NEW JERSEY trades Richard Jefferson and Kerry Kittles to Toronto
NEW JERSEY trades Alonzo Mourning and Aaron Williams to Portland

NEW JERSEY receives Shareef Abdur-Rahim, Derek Anderson and Darius Miles

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TORONTO trades Vince Carter to Portland

TORONTO receives Richard Jefferson, Kerry Kittles and the rights to Sergei Monia.

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Before I get a bunch of "that trade doesn't work under cap rules" replies, I am suggesting that New Jersey uses their trade exception (from the K. Martin trade) to get Darius Miles.

And yes, I know that Portland would be stuck with the remaining $17 million of Mourning's contract. But, their salary in 2003-04 would be more than $7 million less than it would be if they stood pat (assuming that Darius signed the qualifying offer), plus DA's remaining 2 years come off the books.


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## schub (Jul 13, 2003)

Don't bother with trades that involve Jefferson, unless a top 15 player is coming back, and only if that top 15 player is still in his rookie contract too.


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## Storyteller (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>schub</b>!
> Don't bother with trades that involve Jefferson, unless a top 15 player is coming back, and only if that top 15 player is still in his rookie contract too.


Thanks for your input.

It would be really tough for on Nets fans if the team traded Jefferson after losing Martin for 3 draft picks. But there are a couple of "non-fan" considerations in my two proposals that involve Jefferson. Things that might inspire Thorn/Ratner to consider the deals even if fans are against getting rid of Jefferson:

1) They rid themselves of $17 million paid out for Mourning's contract. It will continue to count against the cap until at least December of 2005, and there's no insurance paying part of the deal - right now the Nets pay 100%.

2) Is Jefferson + ??? at the forward spots better than Miles and SAR at the forward spots?


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## schub (Jul 13, 2003)

Nets can apply for relief on Mourning's contract in July 2005.



> There is a waiting period of two years (if the injury or illness occurred between January 1 and July 1) or until the second July 1 following the injury or illness (if it occurred between July 1 and January 1) before a team can apply for this salary cap relief.


#51 in Larry ****'s FAQ. 

So his contract isn't much of a burden with Martin gone. Mourning's, Mutombo's and Kittles' big contracts will all come off the books next summer.

Rahim could walk after a year, so he doesn't have that much value to a team that will already be well under the cap next year.


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## Storyteller (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>schub</b>!
> Nets can apply for relief on Mourning's contract in July 2005.
> 
> 
> ...


Mourning played more than 10 games in November of 2003. The earliest that NJ can apply for cap relief is November of 2005. Thus my statement of "he'll count against the cap until December of 2005".

And Mourning is more a drain on the pocketbook of Ratner than he is on the salary cap. Even after he comes off the books, Ratner must still pay him more than $12 million. That's what I mean by "non-fan" consideration.


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## schub (Jul 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>So Cal Blazer Fan</b>!
> 
> Mourning played more than 10 games in November of 2003. The earliest that NJ can apply for cap relief is November of 2005. Thus my statement of "he'll count against the cap until December of 2005".



What's your source on that? Larry ****'s FAQ seems to indicate otherwise.


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## Trader Ed (Jun 17, 2002)

SCBF,

I like Jefferson as well.... but not for the price of taking on Mourning's contract.

We are giving up the farm for something we can get in other ways.

I would rather trade Rahim and Woods to Seattle for Lewis and AD. We would be better of financially in the long term and Lewis can be as productive as Miles, even more so.

Then you can still turn around and deal Miles to the Clippers for a pick so he can reunite with Q Rich.


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## MAS RipCity (Feb 22, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Scout226</b>!
> 
> 
> If NJ is so interested in SAR, cut off talks and let them wait a few more weeks. Then see how desparate they are..


That's what I have been saying for a while. We hold the cards, it is pretty much "Take it or Leave it" All we have to do is be patient.


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## MAS RipCity (Feb 22, 2003)

How come there are no Rahim for Lewis proposals? I'd be all up for that.


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## Storyteller (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>schub</b>!
> 
> What's your source on that? Larry ****'s FAQ seems to indicate otherwise.


You're right. Since the injury is considered to have occurred in November of 2003 (if he had played less than 10 games, the team could argue that the injury occurred earlier), the earliest that New Jersey can apply for cap relief is the second July 1st after November 2003. That's July 1st, 2005.

However, whether he comes off the books in July of 2005 or December of 2005, he will still count fully against the cap this season and come off in 2005-06.

But again, my point is based more on cash flow than team salary. New Jersey seemed OK with signing Martin to a significant contract, they (apparently) just didn't want to have to give him a frontloaded contract with a big signing bonus. That tells me that cash flow in the short term is its own issue with the New Jersey front office.

Hey, it's just a trade idea. Normally, I wouldn't expect the Nets to trade Jefferson. I throw these ideas out there because it appears that getting out from under Mourning's salary is valuable to the Nets, meaning they'd make some sacrifice to make it happen.


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## Yega1979 (Mar 22, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>schub</b>!
> Don't bother with trades that involve Jefferson, unless a top 15 player is coming back, and only if that top 15 player is still in his rookie contract too.


So you wouldn't trade Jefferson for Kobe Bryant, Kevin Garnett, Tim Duncan, Tracey McGrady, Paul Pierce, Dirk Nowitski.....


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## Yega1979 (Mar 22, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>MAS RipCity</b>!
> How come there are no Rahim for Lewis proposals? I'd be all up for that.


Right, I've suggested that trade all along, but no rumors so far. Maybe Nash will suprise us with it. I'm sure we could land Lewis + filler for SAR. Lewis also has an expiring contract.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Yega1979</b>!
> 
> Lewis also has an expiring contract.


Nope. He's signed through 2008-09. He's due about $38m over the next 5 years. 

http://www.dfw.net/~patricia/contracts

Ed O.


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## Trader Ed (Jun 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>MAS RipCity</b>!
> 
> 
> That's what I have been saying for a while. We hold the cards, it is pretty much "Take it or Leave it" All we have to do is be patient.


Like Yega said, there actually have been quite few... just most Seattle talks have focused on Allen.


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## ebott (Jan 7, 2003)

I still say I'd do a S.A-R. for Kittles and Williams trade if it were the day before training camp. Williams would do us just as much good as S.A-R. backing up Randolph. As much as I like the idea of periodically having a 5-10 and 6-1 back court It'd be nice to have a back up guard like Kittles around. 

Van Exel and Kittles are both getting up their. Limiting their minutes could do a lot to extend their careers. Not much of a selling point but there's a chance they might buy it and fit in to backup rolls behind Damon and DA.

But right now there's plenty of time until training camp. Right now I'd push for Kittles, Williams, Collins and a draft pick. I'd also hope for a better deal from else where cause even though that's more than the Nets are willing to offer it still doesn't blow my socks off.


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## Yega1979 (Mar 22, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Ed O</b>!
> 
> 
> Nope. He's signed through 2008-09. He's due about $38m over the next 5 years.
> ...


Looks like hoops hype is wrong about that one:
http://www.hoopshype.com/salaries/seattle.htm

Your site also says Ratliff has two more years left on his contract, while hoopshype has 1. Which one is it?


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## schub (Jul 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Yega1979</b>!
> 
> So you wouldn't trade Jefferson for Kobe Bryant, Kevin Garnett, Tim Duncan, Tracey McGrady, Paul Pierce, Dirk Nowitski.....



The Nets wouldn't, and can't obviously at this point.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Yega1979</b>!
> 
> Looks like hoops hype is wrong about that one:
> http://www.hoopshype.com/salaries/seattle.htm


Yes, they definitely have bad (or, rather, incomplete) info. The Sonics didn't sign him to a short-term deal.



> Your site also says Ratliff has two more years left on his contract, while hoopshype has 1. Which one is it?


According to SCBF's salary list, his contract's expiring this year. Interesting that Patricia's site has him expiring on '06. There might be a team option or something.

Ed O.


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## Storyteller (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Ed O</b>!
> 
> According to SCBF's salary list, his contract's expiring this year. Interesting that Patricia's site has him expiring on '06. There might be a team option or something.
> 
> Ed O.


Just a simple typo for Ratliff on Patricia's site. Look closely. He signed a 7 year deal (maximum possible, so we know it wasn't longer than that) in January of the strike-shortened season. That means his deal expires in 2005.

Look up two players for comparison. Damon signed a 7 year deal on the same exact day as Theo. He also expires in 2005.


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