# Wade or Kobe????



## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

After watching last nights heat game minus LA public enemy #1,am I the only one who came away thinking Wade is every bit as good as Kobe?????

I fully realise the eastern conference is weak,but it appears whoever plays with Dwayne Wade is a hell of alot happier than playing with Kobe,plus they make the playoffs.....

In no way am I bashing Kobe as I felt he was the top guard in the league strictly based on talent.Not taking into account all of Kobes baggage and ego,it appears the is a new sherrif in the NBA and it is Dwayne Wayde...

The guy has Kobes talent with leadership qualities....


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## Hov (Aug 12, 2003)

I still think Kobe > Wade (c'mon what do you expect? This is the Laker's board. )

But, Wade does remind me of Kobe in a lot of ways.
The way Wade's been playing lately has been crazy.


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## Drk Element (Nov 10, 2004)

As of right now, wade isn't as good as kobe, in 2 years, he will own kobe.


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## Locke (Jun 16, 2003)

Wade's been on a tear, I give him mad props for the way he's been playing. But he hasn't done enough to be considered better than Kobe yet. Say what you will be Kobe is a 3-time champion and a major contributor to each team.

But if he keeps this up over the course of a few more seasons he can prove himself to be better.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

What people are forgetting is that Kobe has done things like this before in the playoffs many many times.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

> Kobe is a 3-time champion


i will control myself and not get into the Kobe with Shaq vs Kobe without Shag debate :angel: 

As of today

Kobe-attitude,ego>=Wayde....
Kobe+attitude,ego<Wayde

either way,the guy is ridiculous


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## SoCalfan21 (Jul 19, 2004)

kobe. hands down. wade has too many role players on his team he really doesnt carry the team like kobe does.....there is keyon dooling and eddie jones and also damien jones.


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## LakerLunatic (Mar 1, 2005)

Wade is everyones new favourite. Kobe has done everything wade has done, and about a million things more. Wade is good, no doubt about this. But i dont know if he will ever even be as good as Kobe, let alone better. His team has a good coach (we dont) his team has a good system (currently we dont) and they have mad good chemistry (we dont). Put Wade on the current Lakers and they would win like 20 games, Kobe is better and will always be better.


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## Pinball (Aug 3, 2002)

I love Wade and have always felt that he's an elite player. Is he as good as Kobe? With the way that he's playing right now, yes. Keep in mind that I actually felt that Kobe was a better all-around player 3-4 years ago than he is right now. He played better defense, his jumper was more consistent, he seemed to have an idea of what he wanted to do before he did it. Remember the 2001 playoffs? Kobe had two of the best series that I've ever seen from a guard against two quality teams in Sacramento and San Antonio. He was only 22 at the time, even younger than Wade. Now, if Wade keeps improving and continues to play at this level, he'll be better than Kobe in my opinion. That's Jordan's level if he keeps getting better and better. Kobe regressed as a player the last 2-3 years but I'm not closing the book on him just yet. I'll give him a chance to get back to the level where he was at. Afterall, I do believe that he's a better pure talent than Wade. Wade's got a better first step than Kobe has ever had and he's incredibly strong but I'm worried about him injuring himself with his reckless playing style. He's only been in the league for two years and he's throwing his body around all over the place. I can't imagine what he'll look like when he's in his ninth year like Kobe if he keeps playing this way.


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

truth said:


> After watching last nights heat game minus LA public enemy #1,am I the only one who came away thinking Wade is every bit as good as Kobe?????
> 
> I fully realise the eastern conference is weak,but it appears whoever plays with Dwayne Wade is a hell of alot happier than playing with Kobe,plus they make the playoffs.....
> 
> ...


While i stand in awe of Wade's recent games, all i can say is that i just hope Kobe plays with the same passion next year...

I'll still say Kobe > Wade. But it's close.


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## HallOfFamer (May 26, 2003)

I think Wade knows how to use his talent more efficiently than Kobe. He doesn't settle for jumpers all the time and gets to the basket more. He's playing like the 00-01 Kobe. I think he played at a higher level this season than Kobe, but I still think Kobe is a better player. He has the best skillset of any player in the league. If Wade adds a consistent jumper and midrange game though, watch out. I'd like to see him keep up play at this level though for the next couple seasons before we call him better. I still think we've yet to see the best of Kobe. Hes turning 27 soon, and this should be his prime years. I just don't think hes peaked yet, and Im absolutely confident that he'll lead the Lakers to a title before his career is over.


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

truth said:


> Is Wade every bit as good as Kobe?


No. He needs to perform like that, and more, for another half decade or so. But damn is Wade very, very good. I could see him being better than Kobe someday.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

One thing Wade appears to possess is incredible strength....The guy is strong....

What always impressed me most about Kobe is his defense,which appears to have slipped a bit....Hopefully,he will develop leadership qualities,as its pretty obvious he doesnt like the role of Robin


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## Ghiman (May 19, 2003)

Wade has been a freaking beast in the playoffs, especially with Shaq sitting out. I'd still pick Kobe over Wade just because of playoff experience & championships. It has nothing to do about be me being a Laker fan either...promise :angel:


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## Diesel (Apr 1, 2004)

This is a no brainer.

#8 is so full of himself and has ruined a storied franchise.

Wade is the consumate team player with great ability.


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## Pinball (Aug 3, 2002)

truth said:


> One thing Wade appears to possess is incredible strength....The guy is strong....
> 
> What always impressed me most about Kobe is his defense,which appears to have slipped a bit....Hopefully,he will develop leadership qualities,as its pretty obvious he doesnt like the role of Robin


Alot of players have been compared to Jordan but Wade might be the best comparison at the end of the day. Kobe had Jordan's skills and he had alot of Jordan-like qualities but he's not quite the athlete that Jordan was. Carter was neck and neck with Jordan as an athlete but he's much more like Clyde Drexler as a player in my opinion. Wade seems to have the best combination of MJ's skills and his athleticism. Obviously, he doesn't have the lethal mid-range game that MJ had and he doesn't jump quite a high as Jordan but he's got an incredible first step, he's a bullet in the open court, he's incredibly strong for a guard, and he attacks the basket relentlessly. Just as Kobe was a better comparison to MJ than Grant Hill and Penny were, Wade might just be a better comparison to MJ than Kobe.


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## Joker (Aug 7, 2002)

LakerLunatic said:


> Wade is everyones new favourite. Kobe has done everything wade has done, and about a million things more. Wade is good, no doubt about this. But i dont know if he will ever even be as good as Kobe, let alone better. His team has a good coach (we dont) his team has a good system (currently we dont) and they have mad good chemistry (we dont). Put Wade on the current Lakers and they would win like 20 games, Kobe is better and will always be better.


wade had kobe's team last year and he got to the second round of the playoffs, and scared the **** out of indiana (best record of the league at the time).

don't tell me that u had a coaching change, stan learned he was going to coach for the first time in the preseason, caron was injured 1/2 the year, lamar was pissed off he wasn't going to be coached by riley, udonis was an undrafted rookie, alston was a bum, wade was constantly injured, miami had the worst start in the league... want me to continue?

kobe has lamar, caron, grant + mihm + cook + jj
wade had lamar, caron, grant + jones + alston + udon

jones is certainly not a difference maker by any means, he barely shot 40% for the season and choked in the playoffs. wade carried his team in the first round and made 2 game winners against the hornets, and he schooled artest in the second round and single-handedly got miami within 3 with 30 seconds left in the game until our rookie coach took him out of the game.

you're basing the 20 win season on what again?


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## Kneejoh (Dec 21, 2004)

Joker said:


> wade had kobe's team last year and he got to the second round of the playoffs, and scared the **** out of indiana (best record of the league at the time).
> 
> don't tell me that u had a coaching change, stan learned he was going to coach for the first time in the preseason, caron was injured 1/2 the year, lamar was pissed off he wasn't going to be coached by riley, udonis was an undrafted rookie, alston was a bum, wade was constantly injured, miami had the worst start in the league... want me to continue?
> 
> ...


Again just to tell you something, it wasn't Wade's team so don't act like he carried them for the entire season. Like you said he was injured a lot and they did great without him. He was also the * 3RD * leading scorer on the team. So when he is the third leading scorer and his team gets 42 wins is the same as when Kobe averaged 15 in 98' and the Lakers won 61 games. So your point about Wade leading Miami has no value in this thread, because I can say the same about Kobe.


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## SoCalfan21 (Jul 19, 2004)

guys we all know kobe is better than wade...but how bout....

Lebron and Wade...whose better


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## Lynx (Mar 6, 2004)

Even though Wade has been terrific in this year's playoffs but he hasn't seen the defence that Detriot brings night in, night out. 










_I got 3, you got none kid_


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## TP3 (Jan 26, 2003)

Make it objective...What skill does Kobe have that Wade doesn't? What does Kobe do better than Wade? That should answer the debate.

My personal opinion...Kobe is a better 3pt shooter. Wade is equal or better in every other way.


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## Pinball (Aug 3, 2002)

TP3 said:


> Make it objective...What skill does Kobe have that Wade doesn't? What does Kobe do better than Wade? That should answer the debate.
> 
> My personal opinion...Kobe is a better 3pt shooter. Wade is equal or better in every other way.


Kobe's also got better footwork, especially in the post. They're equal ball handlers, passers, and rebounders. Wade was better on the defensive end this year, I'll give him that. He's also got a better first step, if that is a skill.


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## got chang (May 16, 2005)

in a couple of years, wade will be better than kobe. so i would rather build my franchise around him. right now, kobe>wade hands down.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

> So your point about Wade leading Miami has no value in this thread, because I can say the same about Kobe.


Kobe "leading" other than in stats,would be a gross misuse of the word.Which is why Wade is the better all around player/teamate.


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

truth said:


> Kobe "leading" other than in stats,would be a gross misuse of the word.Which is why Wade is the better all around player/teamate.


You haven't made a case either way, so I fail to see the point of your post (or you posting period).


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## Joker (Aug 7, 2002)

thug_immortal8 said:


> He was also the * 3RD * leading scorer on the team. So when he is the third leading scorer and his team gets 42 wins is the same as when Kobe averaged 15 in 98' and the Lakers won 61 games. So your point about Wade leading Miami has no value in this thread, because I can say the same about Kobe.


so is nash this year... no my bad nash is 4th. and only up on richardson by .6ppg. Using your brilliant argument: So your an argument about Nash leading Phoenix has no value, because u can say the same about Wade and Kobe. :nah: 

btw, when wade was injured, miami was 23rd in the L or worse... and it's when wade got healthy that miami made the run to close the season on a 18-3 run. Wade coincidentally was also leading the team in assists. and blocks. and fg%. and third in points by one 1 or 2ppg.

who did miami go to in the playoffs? who lead the team in scoring, passing, fg%? ur argument is really pointless...


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## Dwyane Wade (Oct 12, 2004)

Dwyane Wade is so much better then kobe, he is a lot more talanted and everything, and does not bragg, he is very humble, and is better then kobe. Dwyane Wade in my opinnion the best palyer in teh NBA..Let me remind you, wade had almost the same team as kobe did this year, wade had it last year, led them to the playoffs, Kobe could not do so this year.


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## Kneejoh (Dec 21, 2004)

Joker said:


> so is nash this year... no my bad nash is 4th. and only up on richardson by .6ppg. Using your brilliant argument: So your an argument about Nash leading Phoenix has no value, because u can say the same about Wade and Kobe. :nah:


Your fogetting the fact that Nash averaged nearly 12 APG compared to Wades 4.5



> btw, when wade was injured, miami was 23rd in the L or worse... and it's when wade got healthy that miami made the run to close the season on a 18-3 run. Wade coincidentally was also leading the team in assists. and blocks. and fg%. and third in points by one 1 or 2ppg.


Wade was tied for assists with the so called bum Rafer Alston who averaged half as many tunrovers as Wade.

Face the facts Wade didn't lead that team, it was all Lamar and Eddie



> who did miami go to in the playoffs? who lead the team in scoring, passing, fg%? ur argument is really pointless...


Oooh they went to him for what 13 games, and now he is the leader of that team because he was their go to guy for 13 games, Lamar was obviously the leader he average 1.2 ppg less than wade but he averaged 2 x as many rebounds and shot 1 percentage point worse than wade. Lamar also had 1 less t.o. pg .


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

> You haven't made a case either way, so I fail to see the point of your post (or you posting period).


Do i really have to list the reasons why Kobe isnt a "leader" in anything other than stats??

I dont think there is a GM in the league that would take Kobe over Wade.Wade makes his teamates better.He puts the team before self gratification..He is a leader...Kobe's own coach labeled him uncoachable,and thats coming from a guy who coached Rodman..

Kobes game is more polished,especially on the perimeter..Wayde is the better athlete,stronger and faster.....In time he will be the better player.


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## Bartholomew Hunt (Mar 4, 2003)

HallOfFamer said:


> I think Wade knows how to use his talent more efficiently than Kobe. He doesn't settle for jumpers all the time and gets to the basket more. He's playing like the 00-01 Kobe. I think he played at a higher level this season than Kobe, but I still think Kobe is a better player. He has the best skillset of any player in the league. If Wade adds a consistent jumper and midrange game though, watch out. I'd like to see him keep up play at this level though for the next couple seasons before we call him better. I still think we've yet to see the best of Kobe. Hes turning 27 soon, and this should be his prime years. I just don't think hes peaked yet, and Im absolutely confident that he'll lead the Lakers to a title before his career is over.


 I have to agree with this. Did you see Wade's shot chart after game 3? He had made shot after made shot after made shot in the paint. That is amazing for someone his height. People knock him because he does not take the long jumper often. But he is playing exactly to his strengths. How can you knock a guy for that? I did not like Kobe's game this year. Part of it was the coaching, but he could have controlled his urges to hoist wild jumpers.


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## alex (Jan 7, 2003)

HallOfFamer said:


> If Wade adds a consistent jumper and midrange game though, watch out. I'd like to see him keep up play at this level though for the next couple seasons before we call him better. I still think we've yet to see the best of Kobe. Hes turning 27 soon, and this should be his prime years. I just don't think hes peaked yet, and Im absolutely confident that he'll lead the Lakers to a title before his career is over.


Nice post, but, watch Dwyane in the playoffs, his midrange jumper (16-20 feet) is incredible. He NEVER takes threes, but his in-betweeen-game has improved incredibly since last year. He's sooooooo much better now then he was at MU (I saw him play very often-I live in Milwaukee). What's even more impressive is his improvement from this year to last year. I think this speaks well for his future. 

Overall, I'm shocked at how realistic Laker fans are on this topic. I thought everyone would be overwhelmingly in favor of Bryant, but to the LA fans' credit, you guys are seeing things clear(er). Talent wise, Kobe Bryant is a little greater. The difference though, is miniscule. 

Don't get me wrong, Bryant is a _fantastic_ physical talent, but I think people underestimate Dwade's physical attributes. Yeah, he's a shooting guard that's a hair under 6'5", but he has a 6'11" wingspan, he's very stockily built, his hands easily palm a ball, he's a very, very good run-jump athlete, and he's unbelievably quick, more so then Bryant. 

Kobe Bryant is roughly two inches taller, is/was a better run-jump athlete (I think he's regressed a little though recently due to his knee injuries--he was a better athlete during the Los Angeles three peat--for the record I think Bryant is still a slightly better r-j athlete), has lots of experience, and typically performs fairly well in tight situations (although this attribute of his is a bit overrated). He's a better three point shooter, but he's not a good one though, or at least wasn't one this year.

Bryant's achilles is the perception, wether true or not, of his selfishness and egotisticism. Being a neutral outside observer, I think that he does have an aloof attitude on and off the court, but it's somewhat exaggerated. For instance, KB didn't do much at all in the Shaquille-Bryant fued. But I do think he's a selfish player. Another problem he has is his tendency to play too much on the perimeter. He has the physical attributes to be a top three slasher, but he shoots way too much fromt he outside. In this sense, he's kinda morphing into a Vince Carter-esque player. 

Dwyane's biggest advantage is what Bryant lacks, his attitude and demenior (sp?). It's well documented that Dwade is humble and easy to get along with. This, too me, seperates the two players.

While I think Kobe Bryant is a great player, and probably more physically gifted then Dwyane, I would take DW due to his rapidly improving game, his age, and his far superior on/off-court attitude (i.e. selflessness, humiltiy, "charm"). 

In my opinion, they both have a very, very comparable work ethic. I know Bryant is well known to work out incredibly hard, but no one improves as much as DW if he doesn't have a herculean drive.

Edit-Can someone add a poll, please? Thanks


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## BallStateCards (Oct 14, 2004)

Dwyane Wade said:


> Dwyane Wade is so much better then kobe, he is a lot more talanted and everything, and does not bragg, he is very humble, and is better then kobe. Dwyane Wade in my opinnion the best palyer in teh NBA..Let me remind you, wade had almost the same team as kobe did this year, wade had it last year, led them to the playoffs, Kobe could not do so this year.


Wow.

A) Tim Duncan is the best player in the NBA. He's won titles, played defense, and quite frankly is a very difficult person to stop ever. He's painfully consistent as well.

B) You keep on saying he is better than Kobe, but never actually provide any proof up until the last point, which is _very_ flawed.

C) It's not the same team the Wade had last year. In fact, it's not even comparable. Let's get this part out of the way first. The Heat played in the East last year. Losing records qualified for the playoffs last year in the East!

Secondly, the offense was set up different. Let's get the easiest part out of the way. You actually had an offensive system. Not even mentioning the fact that there was no coaching changes in the middle of the season. Lastly, if you ever watch Tierre Brown play, you'd understand how the Lakers lost so many games.

Lastly, three players does not a team make. Just because three Heat players are on the lakers doesn't mean that its the same team. I assume, following that logic, I could argue that if the Heat don't make the Finals this year, Kobe is obviously the better player, no?


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

> Lastly, three players does not a team make. Just because three Heat players are on the lakers doesn't mean that its the same team. I assume, following that logic, I could argue that if the Heat don't make the Finals this year, Kobe is obviously the better player, no?


The theory of transitivity does not hold water in basketball...
However,theory of relativity and absolutes does.

Translation???

You can not infer anything regarding kobe vs wade from the relative teams success...

However you can certainly deduce the impact of the Big Fella on both franchises.


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## BallStateCards (Oct 14, 2004)

truth said:


> You can not infer anything regarding kobe vs wade from the relative teams success...


Exactly my point.


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

truth said:


> Do i really have to list the reasons why Kobe isnt a "leader" in anything other than stats??


Yes, you do. Otherwise we'd have to take your "word" for it. 



> I dont think there is a GM in the league that would take Kobe over Wade.


Uh, how in the world would you know?



> Wade makes his teamates better.He puts the team before self gratification..He is a leader...Kobe's own coach labeled him uncoachable,and thats coming from a guy who coached Rodman..


Gee, then why the heck is Jackson even giving the Lakers coaching position a second thought this season? Maybe it's because, in fact, he really isn't all that uncoachable. Try reading his book in its entirety, I'm sure you didn't. 



> Kobes game is more polished,especially on the perimeter..Wayde is the better athlete,stronger and faster.....In time he will be the better player.


This, of course, has nothing to do with leadership. I wouldn't be the least surprised if Wade eventually became a better player than Bryant.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

> Gee, then why the heck is Jackson even giving the Lakers coaching position a second thought this season? Maybe it's because, in fact, he really isn't all that uncoachable.


Your loyalty is admirable.....BUT....

Even the most rabid Laker fan would admit Kobe is a bit egotistical and often out of control,hoisting up 30 footers or driving and taking on 3 defenders and trying to finish...And this is precisely why Wade will be a better player than Kobe.He has a more disciplined game,and plays within himself...Its a rare gift at such an early age.

And you dont think Jeanne Buss has anything to do with Jackson wanting to coach in L.A.???


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## DWadeistheTruth (Apr 25, 2005)

I think Wade is better in almost every facet of the game, except the three point shot. D Wade is quicker, I think he has better dribble, they both powerful, but I think Wade has natural strenght, Kobe is going to the weight room strenght, Wade has better decision making than Kobe, I think he is a better teamate, really well liked by his teamates, I think Kobe does have a better low post game, but even about than I have my doubts, I seen during the regular season, when they put little quick guys on Wade, he just post on them an scored, this just seems to come spontaniously, Kobe seem's like he works on it alot. Wade should be a better player, when is all said and done.


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

truth said:


> Your loyalty is admirable.....BUT....
> 
> Even the most rabid Laker fan would admit Kobe is a bit egotistical and often out of control,hoisting up 30 footers or driving and taking on 3 defenders and trying to finish...And this is precisely why Wade will be a better player than Kobe.He has a more disciplined game,and plays within himself...Its a rare gift at such an early age.


WTF? What does having an ego have to do with being uncoachable? Nearly every player in the league would be uncoachable if having an ego was that detrimental. Was Michael Jordan uncoachable because "he was a bit egotistical" (understatement of the century), as per your above comment? Come on now. 



> And you dont think Jeanne Buss has anything to do with Jackson wanting to coach in L.A.???


Oh, so suddenly Jackson would be willing to work with the unquestioned leader and best player on the Lakers for the next five years despite the fact that he deemed him "uncoachable"? Guess what, that comment was one of _many_ Jackson made in his book last summer, and since then he has softened on the issue. In fact, Jackson said just two days ago that, quote: *I think there is nothing but good feelings between Kobe and myself.*

That pretty much sums it up, and hopefully will stop the "Kobe wanted Phil gone, I swear" talk last summer that is now making everyone look stupid.


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## MarioChalmers (Mar 26, 2004)

Wow, it's surprising to see so many good comments from Laker fans. And yes, I agree with most of you. Wade isn't as good as Kobe _can be_ but he can reach Kobe's level, and he can be better than Kobe in a few years. Peace.


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

gian said:


> Wow, it's surprising to see so many good comments from Laker fans. And yes, I agree with most of you. Wade isn't as good as Kobe _can be_ but he can reach Kobe's level, and he can be better than Kobe in a few years. Peace.


Definitely. In fact, there are small legions of Laker fans on other boards that openly admire Wade and talk up his game quite frequently. It's always nice when a rabid fanbase can appreciate other players, especially someone as special as Wade.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

> WTF? What does having an ego have to do with being uncoachable


Responces like this is exactly why you have haters in the laker forum....I am trying to be "kind" and not bash Kobe,and by saying kobe is a "bit egotistical",I was certainly making an understatement.

Of course every great athlete has an ego..Its part of their drive to be the best.Since you keep on asking inane questions,i will spell it out for you...

Not only does Kobe have a huge ego,it is out of control and often leads him to make poor decisions on and off the court....Say what you want,defend Kobe all you want,but there is truth in Jax words,and contrary to common beleif,Shaq is not 100% to blame,and guess what??There is much truth to the allegeations that Kobe RAPED a woman in colorado...

Apparantly,alot of posters have a very short term memory and appear to be somewhat delusional as its necessary to post why kobes ego gets him in trouble and makes him "uncoachable"...

As a moderator,I would think you would like moderate debates as opposed to inflaming the discussions with the "WTF"...You can not have it both ways.if you dont want Kobe bashers and laker haters,than refrain from cross examiming a poster for an innocuous comment like Kobe is a bit egotistical...

Considering the guy was largely responsible for dimantling a "dynasty" and dam close for starting at the 2 guard for San Quentin,I would think you would chill a bit :cheers:


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## LoyalBull (Jun 12, 2002)

Damian Necronamous said:


> What people are forgetting is that Kobe has done things like this before in the playoffs many many times.


No... he hasn't.

In fact, the handful of players that have done what Wade has done is severely limited to a handful of hall of famers.

What Wade has done is extraordinary because he has shown the incredible ability to transition from 'the man' too the second option without a hiccup.

And for goodness sakes... he is doing what Kobe COULD do to be more effective.

Wade doesn't stop forcing the ball down your throat. He doesn't bail out the defense with a suspect jumper.

Both are incredibly athletic, but with the size in Kobe's favor, he has more potential to dominate.

However, Bryant has fallen in love with the jump shot. And while that weapon is something that Wade doesn't possess... Wade is showing that you can score in bunches, get to the line and shoot a MUCH better percentage with his attacking style of play.

When Kobe plays that way he is unstoppable. The problem is... Kobe has decided not to play that way consistently.

But to say "kobe's done this before too" is wrong. Wade has done something twice that less than 10 players have done once.

And thats remarkable. 

More compelling... it has come in sweeps. And largely without their best player.

In as much as it matters, Wade has been better than Kobe THIS year.


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## Pinball (Aug 3, 2002)

LoyalBull said:


> No... he hasn't.
> 
> In fact, the handful of players that have done what Wade has done is severely limited to a handful of hall of famers.
> 
> ...


I agree with everything that you said but do you believe that Wade will be playing like this in 6-7 years? Do you think he'll keep attacking the basket relentlessly? In Kobe's defense, he was a much more aggressive player when he was younger. When the jumper wasn't there, he'd go straight to the basket. After 9 years in the league and a season's worth of playoff games, the wear and tear begins to take a toll on you and you're more likely to settle for jumpers. Wade is throwing his body all over the place right now but it might hurt his longevity somewhat in the future. Guys like Kobe, Iverson, and Carter are not nearly as explosive as they were coming into the league and they're settling for jumpers most of the time too.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

> After 9 years in the league and a season's worth of playoff games, the wear and tear begins to take a toll on you and you're more likely to settle for jumpers


thats a great point.makes you really respect the stocktons and malones of the world...hard to believe kobe has been around for 9 years....


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## LoyalBull (Jun 12, 2002)

Its a very valid point.

I think that Wade will ultimately pay the price for his kamakaze style of ball... however, when taken into context... that balls out approach and lack of hesitency whatsoever is what is seperating that aspect of the game for him from anyone else.

I've come to conclusion that the use of the 3 point bomb off the dribble is often a bail out shot. 

Who is to say. Tomato tamato.

Wade is an extraordinary player, so is Kobe. In a lot of ways thats where the comaprison begins and ends.

Wade is a great steals and blocks guy but he isn't a dynamite on the ball defender.

Kobe has shown that he can be that.

Wade has shown how easy it is to gamble in the passing lanes when you have the big fella behind you.


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## HallOfFamer (May 26, 2003)

I wish Kobe would play like Wade more in attacking the basket, but lets be real, if he wants to have a healthy season, he can't attack all the time. He's also not as athletic as he once was, he may be 27, but hes a 27 year old thats taken a pounding in 9 years in the NBA. The midrange game that hes developed is probably top 5 in the league, but the one big gripe I have with Kobe's game is he cant seem to find a flow with it. 

His game this year seems, I dont know the right word for it, but it seems forced. Whether its not taking a shot in the first quarter and just looking to get his teammates involved, or taking all the shots in the 4th. Some games he'll just settle for the long range jumper all game long. He just needs to see the floor better and know when to get going offensively and when to pass. Basically, he needs to let the game come to him. I think Wade has a better understanding of his game, then Kobe does of his own. He may not have the skills, height, or athleticism(though he is close) that Kobe has, but he utilizes his talent better. 

There were a couple games this year where Kobe played awesome and found a good flow to his offense. When they were at Dallas he found the perfect mix to everything. He was getting easy buckets, hitting long range shots, and getting to the line. Also that fourth quarter against the Bobcats showed his entire arsenal. But then he would play a totally different style the next night.

I dont know though, theres many factors to his unusual play this year, though by regular standards it was still spectacular. This was the first year he was constantly seeing double teams, playing a new offense for the first half of the season, and then being the focal point of the triangle for the second half. Still though, I think given a balanced offense and a steady core of players, he'll be every bit as good, if not better, than the 01/02 Kobe.


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## MacDanny 6 (Jun 7, 2002)

Kobe was always about Me Me Me and Wade is about the team. Wade doesn't try to make himself a human highlight like Kobe does. Wade just plays his game and leads his team to victories.


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## HallOfFamer (May 26, 2003)

Also that point that Pinball made about Kobes playoff games is great. I just took a look at how many playoff games Kobe has played and hes played 119 playoff games. Thats an extra season and half that his body has taken. Not to mention he's had injury problems the last couple seasons, I just hope his injuries arent reoccuring.

He does have rest this offseason though, so we should see a more energized and healthy Kobe next season. I also hope that Mitch either makes a deal for a man down low so he could shoulder some of the offensive load, or that PJ somehow finds a way to utilized Odom as the second offensive threat on the team.


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## LakerLunatic (Mar 1, 2005)

Franco 5 said:


> Kobe was always about Me Me Me and Wade is about the team. Wade doesn't try to make himself a human highlight like Kobe does. Wade just plays his game and leads his team to victories.


Good to see someone who finally provides facts to support his argument.


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## LoyalBull (Jun 12, 2002)

HallOfFamer said:


> I
> 
> His game this year seems, I dont know the right word for it, but it seems forced. Whether its not taking a shot in the first quarter and just looking to get his teammates involved, or taking all the shots in the 4th. .


Thats exactly what the problem was.

And it is partly self inflicted.

Kobe was asked (demanded) to be the main distributor AND main scorer at the same time. He was asked (demanded) to play the toughest matchup defensively AND try and conserve himself.

His teammates also had problems with figuring out Kobe's game becuase it was in constant flux this year.

He simply was asked (demanded) to do TOO MUCH!

You cannot have defined sets and rules when the player that demands the most touches, dribbles and attention is constantly displaying his natural ability to be Mr. Everything.

Kobe is good enough to change his game at the drop of a hat... his teammates aren't good enough to react to his changes.

You could literally see the confusion at times... do I cut through and take away his driving lane or am I letting them double him?

Should I move for my own shot or try and screen for Kobe to take one.

Is Kobe going to pass or shoot? Is Kobe going to drive or take jumpers? Where am I supposed to go? 

In as much as it matters, Kobe will be better next year if only because he will have realized what ultimate freedom can do (for better or worse).

He will learn that he isn't good enough (no one is) to simply do everything and think you can live to tell about it over the course of a season.

Call that pride, ego, selfishness or responsibility... its something he HAS to learn to reign in.

He can't be the scorer, the assist guy, the get to the line guy and the three point guy.

By focusing on one (and playing that role in most situations) the rest of the stats and efficiancy with fellow teammates will follow suit.

Kobe can improvise, his teammates not so much.

Kobe is a deadly scorer. Maybe the best offensive weapon in the game... to ask him to be the primary ball handler, assist guy, initiator of the offense, etc as well isn't best implimenting those skills.


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## MacDanny 6 (Jun 7, 2002)

LakerLunatic said:


> Good to see someone who finally provides facts to support his argument.


Kobe = Lots of dunks, losing season
Wade = nice dunks, lots of passing, winning season (with and without Shaq)


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## LoyalBull (Jun 12, 2002)

Franco 5 said:


> Kobe = Lots of dunks, losing season
> Wade = nice dunks, lots of passing, winning season (with and without Shaq)


To be honest... Kobe passed too much this season.

Once he stopped the cross court jump passes the turnovers significantly reduced.

Kobe's problem was mainly in that he tried to beat every player on the opposition off the dribble or shoot over them.

Hence... the FG% drop.


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## JT (Mar 1, 2004)

Franco 5 said:


> Kobe = Lots of dunks, losing season
> Wade = nice dunks, lots of passing, winning season (with and without Shaq)


are you a simpleton man? this topic is for folks who know the game. *nails up a big *KEEP OUT* sign*

as for the topic, i can't praise wade like everybody else has prematurely. he has been killing weak defensive (interior) teams. if he still gets his numbers and propels the heat past the pistons in the next round, then maybe he can be compared to kobe. until then, what wade is doing has been done by kobe, and done better, against better competition. and he has the rings to show for it as well, wade has never even been in the finals. 

only reason why people bring this up because kobe this year has been terrible (by his lofty standards), forcing the action, letting scrubs like bowen go for career nights, and not finding an ebb and flow to his game. partly is due to shaq leaving, partly due to him facing this type of defense for the first time, partly him using his midrange game less, partly due to his injuries/rudy leaving. once he does that, like you said loyalbull no other perimeter player will compare to him. wade does a better concept currently of playing within the flow, knowing his abilities etc. but there is something positive to be said about having the talent to constantly force the issue. personally i have no worries, after this year kobe will come back stronger and better than ever. his resurrection is upon us.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

> only reason why people bring this up because kobe this year has been terrible


Did anyone realistically expect Robin to protect gotham City without Batman??

the emergence of damon Jones is not a freak accident...


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

truth said:


> Responces like this is exactly why you have haters in the laker forum....I am trying to be "kind" and not bash Kobe,and by saying kobe is a "bit egotistical",I was certainly making an understatement.
> 
> Of course every great athlete has an ego..Its part of their drive to be the best.Since you keep on asking inane questions,i will spell it out for you...
> 
> Not only does Kobe have a huge ego,it is out of control and often leads him to make poor decisions on and off the court....Say what you want,defend Kobe all you want,but there is truth in Jax words,and contrary to common beleif,Shaq is not 100% to blame,and guess what??There is much truth to the allegeations that Kobe RAPED a woman in colorado...


Nothing you said here disproves anything I've said. You’ve yet to address any pertinent points. FYI, this is why a lot of posters here consider you a troll; intellectual dishonesty. 



> Apparantly,alot of posters have a very short term memory and appear to be somewhat delusional as its necessary to post why kobes ego gets him in trouble and makes him "uncoachable"...


You haven't proven otherwise. Hell, you continue to ignore the very points that completely disprove your statements (Jackson's recent comments, the fact that you haven't read his book at all, etc.). 



> As a moderator,I would think you would like moderate debates as opposed to inflaming the discussions with the "WTF"...You can not have it both ways.


"WTF" is hardly inflaming. Read the rules if you're still confused. 



> if you dont want Kobe bashers and laker haters,than refrain from cross examiming a poster for an innocuous comment like Kobe is a bit egotistical...


Since this was the basis of your entire argument, it had every reason to be "crossed examiming". 



> Considering the guy was largely responsible for dimantling a "dynasty" and dam close for starting at the 2 guard for San Quentin,I would think you would chill a bit :cheers:


Haha, what's sad is that you can't back up anything you say. Your posts in other threads have been just as ridiculous.


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## MacDanny 6 (Jun 7, 2002)

Hello, the only reason Kobe had winning seasons before this year was because of Shaq. Kobe got all this credit and people were saying "Kobe has 3 rings already and Jordan had none at this point in his career", come on man, the only reason Kobe got those rings was because of Shaq. Anyone who doesn't believe that is retarded. As soon as Shaq leaves, Kobe is on a losing team. Wade however gave the Heat their first winning season in a long time in his rookie year without Shaq. Like I said before, Kobe is all about stats (remember that 40 point games streak) and not about winning. He wouldn't have re-signed with the Lakers if he was about winning because he knew Shaq and Phil were gone and this team wouldnt go anywhere.


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

truth said:


> Did anyone realistically expect Robin to protect gotham City without Batman??
> 
> the emergence of damon Jones is not a freak accident...


Please, Truth, let me ask you:

Since roughly 75% of your last posts are about Shaq, Wade, Kobe and the Lakers organization...

ARE YOU REALLY SHAQ? :eek8:


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## BallStateCards (Oct 14, 2004)

Franco 5 said:


> Hello, the only reason Kobe had winning seasons before this year was because of Shaq. Kobe got all this credit and people were saying "Kobe has 3 rings already and Jordan had none at this point in his career", come on man, the only reason Kobe got those rings was because of Shaq.


This argument has grown tired. I assume Shaq is the only reason Kobe averaged 25+, with a handful of assists and boards too? Oh wait, he did that without Shaq too. Here's the thing, Kobe needed Shaq, Shaq needed Kobe. It's cut-and-dry. I don't know how anyone can say a player who contributed the numbers and clutch plays that Kobe did night in and night out didn't have anything to do with rings. Go back and look at those Lakers rosters, who is going to take the load without Kobe? Rick Fox?



> Wade however gave the Heat their first winning season in a long time in his rookie year without Shaq.


THe Heat made the playoffs seven straight times, didn't for two seasons, and then Wade came in. Is two years really that long a time? Udonis Haslem being a surprise, Lamar joining the team, and Caron Butler lso had a little bit to do with that.



> Like I said before, Kobe is all about stats (remember that 40 point games streak) and not about winning.


Oddly enough, LA went 7-2 over that streak...



> He wouldn't have re-signed with the Lakers if he was about winning because he knew Shaq and Phil were gone and this team wouldnt go anywhere.


Oh yeah, I'm sure that's exactly what he was thinking. He surely wasn't thinking about the amount of years he spent there or a sense of loyalty to the team.


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## BallStateCards (Oct 14, 2004)

truth said:


> the emergence of damon Jones is not a freak accident...


Damon Jones isn't exactly a huge surprise. He played pretty decent last year in Milwaukee, and even earned some pub by SLAM. I will say he's shooting at a higher percentage than expected, but that's expected with Shaq. In fact, Damon averaged more assists last year, and he started forty fewer games.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

> Nothing you said here disproves anything I've said


You just go right along believing everything is swell and that finishing sub .500 was part of the master plan..

And when you are done sniffing kobes jock,and you come back to reality,then someone may address your shoddy arguments

until then....FACTS

The lakers went from contenders to pretenders..

Kobe could not lead his team into the playoffs without Shaq...

You almost had the richest inmate under contract with the lakers in jail for RAPE

You dont have to make any sense to be a moderator

The next intelligent post you make will be your first

Fiction...........

You need to know something about basketball to be a moderator

Kobe is very coachable 

Kobe never cheated on his wife

Kobe never had to settle out of court 

There must be one intelligent non delusional statement out of you that is worth disproving.....

Case closed :clap:


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## BallStateCards (Oct 14, 2004)

Truth, seriously, try to comprehend these two things:

1) What does a rape trial that never actually went to trial have to do with basketball? Or Dwyane Wade for that matter?

2) Instead of actually answering points made, you start calling people stupid. Kettle, meet Pot.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

> ARE YOU REALLY SHAQ?


...do you think it is merely a coincidence that my appearance in this stellar forum has coincided with Shaq's injury??


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

truth said:


> ...do you think it is merely a coincidence that my appearance in this stellar forum has coincided with Shaq's injury??


Than i'm hoping you will heal soon... :biggrin:


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

> Than i'm hoping you will heal soon


because you wish to see continued success on my behalf and the heat,or because you cant wait for me to find another board to post in


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

Clay,your beloved moderator is on my nuts 24/7,and that is when i was behaving..

I simply was stating that kobe has a "bit of an ego" and that hurts his game..Upon further cross examining,I was asked what that has to do with anything in a very unbecoming manner...then the flood gates opened..

no obi and i are mortal enemies :curse:


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

truth said:


> because you wish to see continued success on my behalf and the heat,or because you cant wait for me to find another board to post in


*Sorry, can't have that sort of language around here*


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

truth said:


> You just go right along believing everything is swell and that finishing sub .500 was part of the master plan..


Irrelevant, but continue.



> And when you are done sniffing kobes jock,and you come back to reality,then someone may address your shoddy arguments


I've addressed your shoddy arguments, and you've been owned every time. 



> until then....FACTS
> 
> The lakers went from contenders to pretenders..
> 
> ...


:laugh: 



> I simply was stating that kobe has a "bit of an ego" and that hurts his game..Upon further cross examining,I was asked what that has to do with anything in a very unbecoming manner...then the flood gates opened..


Ah, so you were backed into a corner and asked to explain yourself, and in turn decided to throw nonsensical and irrelavent bards in an attempt to deflect the issue to something else after you had clearly been beaten. 

I guess that's one way to build a rep.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

> I've addressed your shoddy arguments, and you've been owned every time


a)Yes,you have clearly demonstrated that the lakers did not go from contenders to pretenders by one terrible decision by management..

b)you have clearly demonstrated that Kobe plays well within himself and does not force things,and that his ego sometimes gets the best of himself

c)you have clearly demonstrated that Kobes ego has not been detrimental to the team,and his personal life...

d)and you are 100% right that Kobe is exceedingly coachable and Jax never alluded to anything remotely contrary..

I am not sure who tucks you in at night,but this dream of you owning me is a bit far fetched.... 



> Ah, so you were backed into a corner and asked to explain yourself, and in turn decided to throw nonsensical and irrelavent bards in an attempt to deflect the issue to something else after you had clearly been beaten


backed into a corner???
By your oh so clever responce of "WTF does Kobes ego have to do with anything"....

Other than tearing apart the dynasty,raping a woman and god knows what else,i guess you have a very valid point... :cheers:


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## Kneejoh (Dec 21, 2004)

truth said:


> .
> 
> 
> 
> Other than tearing apart the dynasty,raping a woman and god knows what else,i guess you have a very valid point... :cheers:


It's pathetic that to make yourself feel better you have to make up lies. 

a) Kobe was not solely responsible for the breakup.

b) Kobe was never found guilty of rape

so A + B = C 


C= You have no valid points.


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

truth said:


> a)Yes,you have clearly demonstrated that the lakers did not go from contenders to pretenders by one terrible decision by management..


I never said otherwise. Please learn to read properly, I've never denied this nor has this even been brought up, until you decided to in an attempt to deflect the argument away after being proven wrong (again). 



> b)you have clearly demonstrated that Kobe plays well within himself and does not force things,and that his ego sometimes gets the best of himself


I'm not even sure that makes any sense, you're listing two contradicting points. 



> c)you have clearly demonstrated that Kobes ego has not been detrimental to the team,and his personal life...


I never tried to say any such thing. Your inability to read properly is truly mind boggling. 



> d)and you are 100% right that Kobe is exceedingly coachable and Jax never alluded to anything remotely contrary..


Indeed, his recent comments say just the opposite. Of course, we all know that you decided to ignore Jax's comments (which I listed), as you were hoping a meager deflection of the issue would get the topic off on another tangent. 



> backed into a corner???
> By your oh so clever responce of "WTF does Kobes ego have to do with anything"....


That's not all I said, read carefully. I also mentioned the fact that ego alone doesn't do any damage by itself, as the biggest egos the NBA has ever seen are also some of the best players of all time (Jordan, Shaq, Malone, etc.). And it certainly never hurt those team's successes. Your argument was meager and mostly baseless because your entire premise was based on a one-liner that read "He has a big ego d00d!". As if that even remotely explains the implosion of the Shaq-Kobe Lakers. 



> Other than tearing apart the dynasty,raping a woman and god knows what else,i guess you have a very valid point... :cheers:


:laugh: It's sad to see a troll this badly beaten.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

> It's sad to see a troll this badly beaten.


no,what is sad is to see a potential dynasty dismantled due to one players inability to mesh with his teamates,listen to his coach,and act as he if he is above the law...which,with the right amount of money,sadly seems to be the case .....

you keep on thinking you are a jedi knight defending the honor of darth bryant,smashing trolls,while your team has gone from contender to pretender...deflect balme where you choose,delude yourself that Kobe is a leader and makes his team better,and that there are Gms that would choose him over wade..

meanwhile,the Kobe led lakers are "GONE FISHING",Wade is breaking out establishing himself as the premiere 2 guard in the league,and you can not,or will not accept that KOBE BRYANT and his unchecked ego will be looked at as the major factor in the demise of a once great franchise....

But the important thing is,you are parading around in your OBE Kanobe outfit vanquishing trolls with your savvy basketball acumen..So at least you can sleep well at night knowing you have made the board a safer place...

always a pleasure


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

truth said:


> no,what is sad is to see a potential dynasty dismantled due to one players inability to mesh with his teamates,listen to his coach,and act as he if he is above the law...


First: "potential dinasty" my ***. The Shaq-Kobe Lakers won nothing the last 2 years. and if you think they will win 2-3 titles with Malone and Payton in the line-up, i only wish you give me some of that fountain of youth you think they would be drinking off...

BTW, so you are still hanging on the notion that Kobe was the main responsable in the "dismantling" of the team, aren't you? It's old (an false) news... get over it. 



> which,with the right amount of money,sadly seems to be the case .....


The facts around Kobe's case are available if you search for them. If you think Kobe was aquitted due to his money you are pitifully nieve (sp?)



> you keep on thinking you are a jedi knight defending the honor of darth bryant,smashing trolls,while your team has gone from contender to pretender...deflect balme where you choose,delude yourself that Kobe is a leader and makes his team better,and that there are Gms that would choose him over wade..
> 
> meanwhile,the Kobe led lakers are "GONE FISHING",Wade is breaking out establishing himself as the premiere 2 guard in the league,and you can not,or will not accept that KOBE BRYANT and his unchecked ego will be looked at as the major factor in the demise of a once great franchise....


As a self-professed knicks fan, you should understand the meanings of "rebuilding"... When was the last time the Knicks mattered? 1974? 1975?



> But the important thing is,you are parading around in your OBE Kanobe outfit vanquishing trolls with your savvy basketball acumen..So at least you can sleep well at night knowing you have made the board a safer place...
> 
> always a pleasure


Sarcasm doesn't suit you, kid. Your hate is transparent. So why should we take your posts seriously?


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

> First: "potential dinasty" my ***. The Shaq-Kobe Lakers won nothing the last 2 years. and if you think they will win 2-3 titles with Malone and Payton in the line-up, i only wish you give me some of that fountain of youth you think they would be drinking off


you have got to be kidding me...is there any sanity in tinseltown???This could be the DUMBEST quote yet,but novel as it takea an entirely different approach..But lets make believe you arent clueless...

So,I,the laker hater,recognise the greatness and potential of your team,and now you bash me for labeling the lakers a potential dynasty...And you guys honestly expect anyone to take you seriously???



> BTW, so you are still hanging on the notion that Kobe was the main responsable in the "dismantling" of the team, aren't you? It's old (an false) news... get over it.


Let me try to break it down for you....

Basketball is not a game of individual talent playing independently.A championship team should be greater than the sum of the parts.With that said,you need a system an the players must operate within the framework.

KOBE does not do that,refuses to do that,and alot of it is KOBE refusing to check his ego at the door..laker management,for whatever reason,would not,could not reign him in,probably in fear of losing him....the rape allegations are simply an example of Kobe not operating within a different framework..i.e. the legal system...Deny it,acceot it,i really couldnt care less as he had to settle out of court knowing full well he would have gotten reemed in a civil suit and it wasnt worth the risk..

The point is,Oneal was the straw that stirred the drink.And yes,Oneal has an ego,and rightfully so.As it became increrasing ly clear that Kobe was an independent operator,and had managemnts blessing,it created internal disharmony and strife.That is what KILLS teams,no matter how good the individual talent is..

You guys are free to exonerate Kobe from any wrong doing..its consistent ,as that is exactly what managemnt did..The irony is now you are not even acknowledging the greatness of your franchise and what could have been...

Contender to pretender :cheers:


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

truth said:


> you have got to be kidding me...is there any sanity in tinseltown???This could be the DUMBEST quote yet,but novel as it takea an entirely different approach..But lets make believe you arent clueless...
> 
> So,I,the laker hater,recognise the greatness and potential of your team,and now you bash me for labeling the lakers a potential dynasty...And you guys honestly expect anyone to take you seriously???


Come on, truth, don't make a fool of yourself.

I bet you were one of the guys who where saying the 03-04 Lakers were a team with 4 hof, right? Like pretending Malone was his 30-12 self? and Payton his 22-9 self? 

Dynasty? what dinasty? the Lakers threepeated, and the next year Shaq sabotaged the season... The "dinasty" was gone, for with losing came internal turmoil...



> Let me try to break it down for you....


Please, please, do...



> Basketball is not a game of individual talent playing independently.A championship team should be greater than the sum of the parts.With that said,you need a system an the players must operate within the framework.
> 
> KOBE does not do that,refuses to do that,and alot of it is KOBE refusing to check his ego at the door..laker management,for whatever reason,would not,could not reign him in,probably in fear of losing him....the rape allegations are simply an example of Kobe not operating within a different framework..i.e. the legal system...Deny it,acceot it,i really couldnt care less as he had to settle out of court knowing full well he would have gotten reemed in a civil suit and it wasnt worth the risk..
> 
> ...


So, your point is that Kobe, not willing to "operate within the framework", didn't really won 3 championships?

Be honest, truth, you have been salivating for the last 5 years to get a chance to bash the Lakers, haven't you?

Knicks fan my ***!


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

truth said:


> no,what is sad is to see a potential dynasty dismantled due to one players inability to mesh with his teamates,listen to his coach,and act as he if he is above the law...which,with the right amount of money,sadly seems to be the case .....


Are you talking about Shaq or Kobe? Because you are in fact talking about both (but you don't realize it). 



> you keep on thinking you are a jedi knight defending the honor of darth bryant,


LMAO, you didn't even get the analogy right, and I'm far from a Star Wars geek. :laugh: 



> smashing trolls,while your team has gone from contender to pretender...deflect balme where you choose,delude yourself that Kobe is a leader and makes his team better,and that there are Gms that would choose him over wade..


Yawn. 



> meanwhile,the Kobe led lakers are "GONE FISHING",Wade is breaking out establishing himself as the premiere 2 guard in the league,and you can not,or will not accept that KOBE BRYANT and his unchecked ego will be looked at as the major factor in the demise of a once great franchise....


Indeed, Kobe was one of many factors why the dynasty was dismantled. Sadly your reading comp is so far down the tubes that you actually believe I've said otherwise. 



> But the important thing is,you are parading around in your OBE Kanobe outfit vanquishing trolls with your savvy basketball acumen..So at least you can sleep well at night knowing you have made the board a safer place...
> 
> always a pleasure


:greatjob:


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## Mr. Mojo Risin (Apr 21, 2005)

Wade is great, but he doesn't have the track record Kobe has, so I can't really say or speculate. Time will tell.


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## Mr. Mojo Risin (Apr 21, 2005)

Mr. Mojo Risin said:


> Wade is great, but he doesn't have the track record Kobe has, so I can't really say or speculate. Time will tell.


Shaq has been lucky with Kobe and Wade to make him look better than his lazy *** is IMO.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

Paulo,i would be kinder to me as i am probably the only one who bothers to respond to your EDIT Again that respect thing, its ok to disagree, but not with these labels -Jamel...Though you are the ultimate hindsight analyst....

If you cant win with Shaq and Kobe playing together,on the same page with Karl Malone(sans injury) and any two players,something is really wrong..


EHL,face it....Kobe Bryant is a great talent but there will be a huge asterisk before his name until the day he learns to "check his ego at the door",develop some humility and win without Shaq...Its not my opinion,as he is now 3rd team NBA BEHIND Wayde,which should put an end to this debate. :clap: 

Troll 1 EHL 0 :cheers:


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## got chang (May 16, 2005)

wade WILL be better than kobe, no doubt. but that time is still yet to come. give or take atleast two seasons.


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