# Bulls v. Pistons - Official Matchup/Discussion/Prediction thread



## chibul (Oct 14, 2006)

Figured we could use one of these.

My prediction is Chicago in 6. I now believe we can make it to the NBA Finals. But one step at a time, of course.

Let's go Bulls!


----------



## Deng101 (Jan 13, 2005)

The 2 top teams in the East are Miami and Detroit, including playoffs we are 10-2 vs them. So, yes I think we can definitely win this series and I think we have proven that we can beat any team in the East.

Infact, id much rather face the Pistons than the Heat, they dont have the 2 superstars... guys that on a bad day still score 20 points. All that being said, they are the best team in the East and have home court. So ofcourse we are under-dogs but i think we can win without a doubt.


----------



## eymang (Dec 15, 2006)

Bulls in 6, I think they'll steal game 2 on the road


----------



## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

Deng101 said:


> The 2 top teams in the East are Miami and Detroit, including playoffs we are 10-2 vs them. So, yes I think we can definitely win this series and I think we have proven that we can beat any team in the East.
> 
> Infact, id much rather face the Pistons than the Heat, they dont have the 2 superstars... guys that on a bad day still score 20 points. All that being said, they are the best team in the East and have home court. So ofcourse we are under-dogs but i think we can win without a doubt.


Not sure I'd go that far; the Pistons are MUCH quicker than the Heat. Athletically, I'd say the Bulls and Pistons are right on par with each other. At our best, we can and will beat the Pistons. It will just depend on how many off-games some of our guys have. It'll be nice to see Tyrus Thomas get some burn and make an impact. Pistons don't have the same kind of beef as Miami down low to throw him around like a rag doll.


----------



## McBulls (Apr 28, 2005)

Bulls match up real well with the Pistons. Bulls win in 5.


----------



## nitric (Dec 14, 2006)

Bulls in 6, I won't underestimate this team again when I predicted Bulls in 7 vs teh Heat


----------



## Fizer Fanatic (Jun 20, 2002)

Should be a very interesting series. Two similar teams with no superstars. Pistons have more front-line offense, while Bulls have more front-line defense. Big Ben will get harrassed by Pistons fans. And hopefully, Rip will get the Posey treatment while in Chicago. The crowd should get into it at both locations, and there should be some impressive levels of intensity on display. I can't wait for it to get underway.


----------



## ViciousFlogging (Sep 3, 2003)

It should be a fantastic series, and whoever comes out of it alive will have _earned_ it. Maybe it's sweep-induced hysteria talking, but I'll go ahead and say Bulls in 6. They're ready for this. So is Detroit, but I just believe in our guys.


----------



## SausageKingofChicago (Feb 14, 2005)

Keys to series :

1. Force Sheed and Webber to take a greater percentage of their offense outside ( they both love the long J ) 

2. Use Nocioni and Thomas as the spoilers / niggle guys on Sheed and Hamilton. Hit these guys early and throw them from their game and its hard for them to re-focus and get back into it

3. Try and get early foul trouble on Sheed to put more pressure on Webber as they have no real depth upfront that can provide trouble 

4. Play Billups tight and force him to try and post or beat off the dribble and bring our help shotblockers into play. I would actually expect to see a bit of Duhon in this series playing a role such as this

5. Keep screening for Luol and get his mid range going off those curls 

6. Kirk and Chris need to be dictating a faster paced game to run them down. They don't have great depth and beyond McDyess ( whose best years are behind him ) and Delfino they don't really have anyone that can make a serious impact . We can definately out energise and outpace them to attack their lack of depth 

Bulls in 6


----------



## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

Funny, we just stepped out of the 'baby-bulls' shadow but now will we finally step out of the 'the-Bulls-are-the-Pistons-little-brother' stage?

Truthfully, Detriot's frontline really isn't a THREAT, they just have height.


----------



## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

ViciousFlogging said:


> It should be a fantastic series, and whoever comes out of it alive will have _earned_ it. Maybe it's sweep-induced hysteria talking, but I'll go ahead and say Bulls in 6. They're ready for this. So is Detroit, but I just believe in our guys.


"dittos"


----------



## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

The ROY said:


> Funny, we just stepped out of the 'baby-bulls' shadow but now will we finally step out of the 'the-Bulls-are-the-Pistons-little-brother' stage?
> 
> Truthfully, Detriot's frontline really isn't a THREAT, they just have height.


I think Webber, Sheed, McDyess and Nazr are better than two hasbeens in Shaq and Zo (and also Haslem).


----------



## T.Shock (Feb 11, 2003)

It will be a fantastic series, probably the most physical, hustle-filled series of the playoffs. Two teams with similar styles. Bulls and Detroit matchup real well with each other. And the Pistons won't get the easy baskets the Heat got with Shaq inside. I think it goes 7. But I think the Pistons take it. They've made 4 straight ECF trips and there is a reason. Veteran team who do what we do, but better. Gonna be one of those 'balls to the wall' series, and the Pistons just have more experience in those types of games. 

However, let me say, that the Bulls winning the East would not shock me at all. They can easily take care of any team in the East. Beating Phoenix is another story.


----------



## Ruff Draft (Nov 21, 2004)

Whatever happens... it was one hell of a series. Every game will be a hard fought battle.


----------



## theanimal23 (Mar 2, 2005)

Series will go 7. No doubt. Who will win? I don't know, but if it goes this far, I think its a toss up. If it goes 7, I'll take the Bulls, but Detroit could very well win. 

Huge test for our team. If we win this series, expect a huge paycheck for our 3 Key FAs.

Key matchups
Sheed vs our PFs. I think PJ is less effective this series and we will see more of Noce and Tyrus.

BG (foul trouble?) vs their bigger guards

Prince's D on Deng


----------



## eymang (Dec 15, 2006)

On another note, we'll get to hear some of the most annoying PA announcers in sports, back to back


----------



## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

Should be a great one. Since they have HC I'm picking Pistons in 7. Our biggest adjustment will be finding quality shots against their D. I know our ball movement against the Heat was great but that still doesn't change how slow and unwilling to hustle Miami was on defense. We won't get those looks against Detroit which means Deng, Kirk and Gordon will have to take their off the dribble game to a different level. Everything depends on our offensive play because you know our D will be there every night.


----------



## T.Shock (Feb 11, 2003)

Barkley and Smith made excellent points on TNT a couple of minutes ago. The Bulls basically killed the Heat by being more athletic, smarter, and better defensively than the Heat were. Don't get me wrong. The Bulls can score too, but that drive-and-kick game won't work as well against the athletic Pistons who also understand help defense better than everybody. 

This feels odd to say, but I'm almost 100% certain the series will go 7.


----------



## TripleDouble (Jul 26, 2002)

The problem with this matchup is that the Bulls cannot get away with playing Nocioni as much at the four because the Pistons PFs are longer and better than Haslem and Walker. 

On the other hand, maybe Deng's length can matchup with Wallace if the Bulls choose to play Nocioni and Deng at the same time.

Also, I think Prince has a pretty good shot of keeping Deng from going off like he did against Miami -- the Bulls will definately need Hinrich to pick up some slack offensively.


----------



## anorexorcist (Aug 3, 2005)

I'm calling Bulls in 6, simply based on the fact that we have owned this team time and time again this season. However I am not going to jump on the bandwagon and say that means an automatic berth in the Finals. I don't think we'll beat either of Cleveland or New Jersey, since we always have had a tough time against those teams. I say Cleveland in 5 if we get to the ECF, NJ in 4. We won't win at that level.


----------



## Roscoe Sheed (Jun 19, 2006)

anorexorcist said:


> I'm calling Bulls in 6, simply based on the fact that we have owned this team time and time again this season. However I am not going to jump on the bandwagon and say that means an automatic berth in the Finals. I don't think we'll beat either of Cleveland or New Jersey, since we always have had a tough time against those teams. I say Cleveland in 5 if we get to the ECF, NJ in 4. We won't win at that level.


You may be right about your prediction, but I don't think it is wise to base playoff predictions on regular season series info. Both teams are at a different stage with somewhat different personnel present. Having said that, I was totally ashamed of the way the Pistons played like trash in the final regular season match-up against the Bulls at the Palace. If they come out with that kind of effort, the Bulls will sweep them.


----------



## Roscoe Sheed (Jun 19, 2006)

TripleDouble said:


> The problem with this matchup is that the Bulls cannot get away with playing Nocioni as much at the four because the Pistons PFs are longer and better than Haslem and Walker.
> 
> On the other hand, maybe Deng's length can matchup with Wallace if the Bulls choose to play Nocioni and Deng at the same time.
> 
> Also, I think Prince has a pretty good shot of keeping Deng from going off like he did against Miami -- the Bulls will definately need Hinrich to pick up some slack offensively.


One problem for the Pistons is that Sheed does not like to come out and guard the perimeter against 4s (remember Robert Horry!) Sheed is supposed to be their last line of defense, so he can't be asked to guard the perimeter as well. If they put Nocioni and Deng on the court at the same time, I'd put McDyess in because I think he'd be more likely to guard the perimeter effectively than C-Webb. With PJ out there, there isn't much of a problem, because he isn't really much of an offensive threat and we all know that Ben Wallace is about as close to useless on offense as any player in NBA history besides Mark Madsen.

BTW, if the Bulls try to put Deng on Sheed, Sheed should really punish him in the post. Not only is Sheed longer, he is also about 40 pounds heavier. However, with Sheed you never know.


----------



## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

I'm happy to enjoy this until the series starts.


----------



## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

Put me down for Bulls in 6 as well.


----------



## TripleDouble (Jul 26, 2002)

Roscoe Sheed said:


> One problem for the Pistons is that Sheed does not like to come out and guard the perimeter against 4s (remember Robert Horry!) Sheed is supposed to be their last line of defense, so he can't be asked to guard the perimeter as well. If they put Nocioni and Deng on the court at the same time, I'd put McDyess in because I think he'd be more likely to guard the perimeter effectively than C-Webb. With PJ out there, there isn't much of a problem, because he isn't really much of an offensive threat and we all know that Ben Wallace is about as close to useless on offense as any player in NBA history besides Mark Madsen.
> 
> BTW, if the Bulls try to put Deng on Sheed, Sheed should really punish him in the post. Not only is Sheed longer, he is also about 40 pounds heavier. However, with Sheed you never know.


So, from what you're saying, the Bulls still could get away with playing Deng and Nocioni together. Sheed, if he's feeling like posting up, would have an advantage offensively but the Bulls would also have the advantage offensively making Sheed cover the perimeter.


----------



## darlets (Jul 31, 2002)

Roscoe Sheed said:


> One problem for the Pistons is that Sheed does not like to come out and guard the perimeter against 4s (remember Robert Horry!) Sheed is supposed to be their last line of defense, so he can't be asked to guard the perimeter as well. If they put Nocioni and Deng on the court at the same time, I'd put McDyess in because I think he'd be more likely to guard the perimeter effectively than C-Webb. With PJ out there, there isn't much of a problem, because he isn't really much of an offensive threat and we all know that Ben Wallace is about as close to useless on offense as any player in NBA history besides Mark Madsen.
> 
> BTW, if the Bulls try to put Deng on Sheed, Sheed should really punish him in the post. Not only is Sheed longer, he is also about 40 pounds heavier. However, with Sheed you never know.


Yeah, I think we'll see alot of Deng, Noc and Thabo at the forward position.
P.J will start, but Deng and Noc will grab most of the minutes after that, with Skiles going with Thabo over TT. 

TT will only get some burn if Wallace starts going nuts on offence.

We got our two rookies feet wet in their first play off series and they seem to play alright.


----------



## mgolding (Jul 20, 2002)

We need to come close to matching what makes Detroit do well:
- Keep turnovers to a minimum
- Execute down the stretch
- Play with general consistency

Since we're more capable of scoring in sprees as compared to Detroit I think if we come close to matching them in their strengths, we're in with a very good chance.


----------



## JeremyB0001 (Nov 17, 2003)

Hmm. The fact that I came close to getting the first series right makes me want to stick with my pre-playoffs predicton of the Pistons in 7. At the same time, the fact that we beat Miami so convincingly makes me want to take the Bulls in 6. I'll have to give it more thought. Either way, I'm reluctant to pick the Bulls in 7. Winning a game 7 in Detroit would be incredibly difficult.


----------



## IbizaXL (Sep 21, 2005)

no offense, but the 2nd round is as far as the Bulls will go. i doubt the pistons will play the same way the heat did. this is a veteran pistons squad with their core pretty much still intact from their championship year. plus they have home court


----------



## darlets (Jul 31, 2002)

have they released the schedule for the series?


----------



## TripleDouble (Jul 26, 2002)

Another key to this series could be getting Kirk some minutes on Billups. As good as Hamilton is, Billups is their catalyst. I'd like to see Skiles make an effort to get Hinirch matched up with Billups by either playing Hinrich on him when Hamilton is out of the game or playing Hinrich and Thabo together at times and letting Thabo guard Hamilton.


----------



## Showtyme (Jun 24, 2002)

Bulls in 5.

Tyrus Thomas shows up big in at least two wins, to take some of the heat off of Deng and Gordon. Hinrich goes for 30 in at least one game.

Ben Wallace plays at the elite level that he's been playing at.

I fear their defense, but I have a ton more faith in our execution. Yes, it might be sweep-induced, and yes, the Heat were definitely a vulnerable team from the get-go, but the point is, we did exactly what a well-executing team DOES in that position: sweep in 4.

Also, the rust factor for the wait will not be in play because Detroit will have almost the exact same number of games in between.

One thing is for certain: the winner here decides the East. As anticipated, the other half of the bracket isn't very impressive basketball. NJ is making a 1st-round flash-in-the-pan (although never underestimate Kidd in a Nets uni during the playoffs... twice in the Finals), Cleveland will get exposed in its semifinal matchup, and I think that all four teams on the other side of the bracket may have been better than the best team on the bottom half.

Here's something very strange: I'm starting to wonder if we should "save" something for the Finals. I mean hey, do we want to make the mistake that Dallas made last year, and use up too much during the earlier rounds, so that we're a banged-up team running out of gas when the Finals hit? 

What a great thought to even have.

Anyway. I digress. Rasheed is aging too, so is Webber, and in a competition of execution, the Bulls are sharper right now. Flip Saunders is not a playoff coach.


----------



## Showtyme (Jun 24, 2002)

By the way, I think the best matchup is against Billups. Unlike Wade, he's not the actual source of a lot of the Pistons' buckets, but like Wade, he's the key to the entire team. Lock down on him, freeze him completely and disable him, and you're halfway there. Their bigs have been genreally successful (Webber, Rasheed, and especially McDyess) because their guards have really been able to set them up.

Tayshaun Prince is an X-factor, but he can be limited one-on-one with Deng. Hinrich and Thabo locking up Billups is the key to the series, as far as I'm concerned. 

The only other key I can think of is offensive rebounding. The Bulls need to keep long their time of possession. Force the Pistons to play a lot more defense than offense, and get a lot more opportunities to get looks at the basket. Offensive rebounding is generally a large boon of confidence, because unlike a lot of other teams, when we get offensive rebounds, unless someone totally wide open, we restart the offense and exhibit some level of confidence. 

Also, while they aren't completely flat, the Pistons don't generally look to run the ball up and down a lot. Because of this, our guys can feel a lot more comfortable crashing the offensive glass. Of course the Pistons can make us pay if we don't get back on defense, but if we can really frustrate their defenders by giving our guys second-chance possessions and attempts, we're going to see an incredibly dominant series by Chicago over Detroit.


----------



## T.Shock (Feb 11, 2003)

I honestly believe that we won't be able to out-execute the Pistons in a halfcourt game. We need to get out and get a lot of two-on-one, three-on-one fast breaks. Make Sheed, McDyess, and Webber get up and down the floor. Tyrus could play just as big a role in this series as Thabo did in the Heat series.


----------



## PD (Sep 10, 2004)

Knock on wood, but this will be a great series. Two rival teams 15 years ago and now. Chicago and Ben Wallace will try to show the Pistons made a mistake and vice versa. I think it will come down to depth in this series - that is where Detroit does not have the likes of Thomas and Safo.


----------



## darlets (Jul 31, 2002)

Gio305 said:


> no offense, but the 2nd round is as far as the Bulls will go. i doubt the pistons will play the same way the heat did. this is a veteran pistons squad with their core pretty much still intact from their championship year. plus they have home court


Unfortunately I have to agree. Short of one of our two rookes playing unexpectedly well, I can't see us winning. We need a fifth player to start scoring to beat the pistons, P.J ??? Thabo??? TT????

Prince V Deng
Gordon/Hinrich V Billups and Rip
They're tough match ups.

Maybe Noc can drag Wallace outside to take away something from their D.


----------



## TripleDouble (Jul 26, 2002)

PD said:


> Knock on wood, but this will be a great series. Two rival teams 15 years ago and now. Chicago and Ben Wallace will try to show the Pistons made a mistake and vice versa. I think it will come down to depth in this series - that is where Detroit does not have the likes of Thomas and Safo.


Delfino and Maxiel are as productive or more productive than Thabo and Tyrus right now.


----------



## Showtyme (Jun 24, 2002)

It is a better team than we saw in the regular season. Make no mistake. But I DO think we can out-execute the Pistons. They simply aren't that impressive.

Hey, I mean Billups is a STILL an underrated point guard. He doesn't make mistakes. But I think Sheed and Webber are about ready to start cracking. Rasheed was a rather unimpressive 13 and 8 through the 2004 playoffs, when they won the championship.


----------



## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

SPMJ said:


> Should be a great one. Since they have HC I'm picking Pistons in 7. Our biggest adjustment will be finding quality shots against their D. I know our ball movement against the Heat was great but that still doesn't change how slow and unwilling to hustle Miami was on defense. We won't get those looks against Detroit which means Deng, Kirk and Gordon will have to take their off the dribble game to a different level. Everything depends on our offensive play because you know our D will be there every night.


so...u're a BULLS fan but you're picking the PISTONS in 7?

wow


----------



## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

anorexorcist said:


> I'm calling Bulls in 6, simply based on the fact that we have owned this team time and time again this season. However I am not going to jump on the bandwagon and say that means an automatic berth in the Finals. I don't think we'll beat either of Cleveland or New Jersey, since we always have had a tough time against those teams. I say Cleveland in 5 if we get to the ECF, NJ in 4. We won't win at that level.



LMAO wow

Cleveland in 5?? u act like they're some DOMINANT team or something

gimmie a break man

we could beat EITHER of them in 7 games

NJ in 4? we're gonna get SWEPT by the nets?

are u serious man?

........


----------



## souleater (Apr 21, 2007)

hate to say but pistons in 7,they have the best clutch shooters in the league,the refs allow them to play defense without calling a lot fouls,plus they have the home cort advantage,hope i will be wrong in the end


----------



## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

theanimal23 said:


> Series will go 7. No doubt. Who will win? I don't know, but if it goes this far, I think its a toss up. If it goes 7, I'll take the Bulls, but Detroit could very well win.
> 
> Huge test for our team. If we win this series, expect a huge paycheck for our 3 Key FAs.
> 
> ...


Really, PJ ineffective??? He played real solid in the two games at Detroit. This game will be even more of a half-court game and we need PJ out there. He also plays well on Sheed on both ends of the floor. 

You just keep finding ways to insult PJ even when there is nothing there.

The key is the refs. If Detroit get's all this Hamilton, Chauncey BS calls we will lose. If the officiating is like the Heat series, we win. That simple. This Bulls team is for REAL.


----------



## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

T.Shock said:


> Barkley and Smith made excellent points on TNT a couple of minutes ago. The Bulls basically killed the Heat by being more athletic, smarter, and better defensively than the Heat were. Don't get me wrong. The Bulls can score too, but that drive-and-kick game won't work as well against the athletic Pistons who also understand help defense better than everybody.
> 
> This feels odd to say, but I'm almost 100% certain the series will go 7.


Really, then how come we wupped them 3 out of 4 times (with the one loss should've been a loose-ball foul on C-Webb as he clearly cleared PJ out of the way, no pun intended). If the officiating is somewhat fair I see us winning in 5 at most 6. Detroit really isn't that good. They just get a whole lot of BS calls in their favor. 

Besides, in this series we should just attack the rim and get them and the Pistons team in foul trouble. That way, they would stop being as aggresive on defense and it will be easier for us to score baskets.


----------



## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

Bottom line, we have DETRIOT's number also and we have for the last couple of seasons.

The Bulls WILL win this series.


----------



## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

T.Shock said:


> I honestly believe that we won't be able to out-execute the Pistons in a halfcourt game. We need to get out and get a lot of two-on-one, three-on-one fast breaks. Make Sheed, McDyess, and Webber get up and down the floor. Tyrus could play just as big a role in this series as Thabo did in the Heat series.


I agree. If there's anything we can exploit about the Pistons, it's that they are pretty slow in the frontcourt, whereas we're far more athletic. I'm always concerned about Rasheed, but Webber & McDyess can't keep up with a quick tempo if we can manage it. I really think Tyrus Thomas needs to be a factor in this series. Big Ben and PJ will be overmatched unless another "big" steps up to rebound and defend the basket. That needs to be Tyrus; and I don't think the Pistons would have an answer for him if he goes off.


----------



## theanimal23 (Mar 2, 2005)

bullybullz said:


> Really, PJ ineffective??? He played real solid in the two games at Detroit. This game will be even more of a half-court game and we need PJ out there. He also plays well on Sheed on both ends of the floor.
> 
> *You just keep finding ways to insult PJ even when there is nothing there.*
> 
> The key is the refs. If Detroit get's all this Hamilton, Chauncey BS calls we will lose. If the officiating is like the Heat series, we win. That simple. This Bulls team is for REAL.


Take it easy, please.

I have given credit to PJ . I also critique him, but I do that for every player on this team. I don't hold PJ on a pedestal and make posts revolving around him left and right.

I talk about the pros and cons of each player. From Day 1 I had supported the trade that landed PJ here. Go back and check my post history. Yes I've had my doubts at times, but I felt there was a reason why all of it was done. I have seen the benefits of PJ on this team. The only thing that has made me second guess myself is Chandler's 'break-out' year. But I'll take PJ for a playoff run anyday over him.

I've given PJ and Big Ben both much credit to our success during these playoffs. I think PJ had as much to do with it than the rest of our team. Replace PJ with Tyson, and we might be going to 6 games, and who knows. PJ had a move yesterday where he was playing the 5 and got Shaq in the air to draw his 3rd foul.

Get with the program. PJ isn't all that like you make him out to be. But he isn't all crap either. He's in between. He is a good role player. No player on our team is a superstar. Meaning at each position, there will be another player that causes havoc for us. 

I think the PJ vs Sheed matchup can be trouble on the perimeter. I think this is a matchup where Noce will be needed more than PJ. I think PJ matches up very well with C-Webb. Sheed, at times. We might give Tyrus a try as his athletic ability could be an X factor.

Next time I'll double check with you about a post about PJ. I didn't know the censorship only required 100% positive posts about PJ. Go back, I commented on how he did a hell of a job versus Miami. I commented on Ben Gordon's passing and TOs. Noce's dumbheaded mistakes. Luol getting shut down for a few stretches by Posey. But I also pointed out the positives of every player.

Who will win? Chi or Det? I haven't made my pick yet. My mind says it goes 7 games with either team having a legit shot to win. But I think the Chicago Bulls elevated their game to another level this playoff series. I mean to a level of maturity and improvement that you would expect from an offseason of working your game. In particular, Luol Deng and Ben Gordon. 

Ben Gordon attacked the rim in the 4th. His shots weren't falling and he kept getting to the FT line. He became better at drawing fouls. Luol Deng has shown he can be there for an entire 48 minutes. He showed that he has ARRIVED, he is clutch, he shows up for the big games. These were both two areas a lot of us fans thought they needed to improve upon.

Now comes their real test. Prince vs Deng. Gordon vs Rip/Billups. If they continue with their play, I say Bulls in 6. But I'm not discounting the Pistons and I thik it'll go 7. 

X-Factor Matchups
Sheed vs PJ/Noce
Prince vs Deng
Gordon and Kirk in Foul Trouble?
*How to stop the Sheed/Billups pick n'roll where Billups posts up and Sheed hangs at the 3 point line.


----------



## Showtyme (Jun 24, 2002)

PJ Brown will have a good series. He's a great matchup for Webber and McDyess, on both ends. Those are three power forwards from a different era, you know? Three of the best bigs from the mid-late 90's.

But the problem is matching up against Rasheed. Fortunately, I think our team defense can bend-but-not-break on him. Probably Deng or Nocioni are the best guys to actually try to guard him, but I think Tyrus Thomas is the best equipped, though he lacks the experience and still has rookie foul trouble (refs won't help him).

Defending their bigs with man defense is going to be an important part of this game, because we actually WANT them to try and score points in the paint. They shot 44.3% from the arc in their series against the Magic; that's pretty much how they won the games. Billups, Tayshaun and Rasheed combined for 51% from the arc, 25/49 shooting.

That's why I see Tyrus having a big series, if we're going to do well. We must defend the three-point shot, and if we're doing our job right, it requires that we can trust our frontcourt defense.

I believe we can, which is why I think the Bulls can take this in 5.


----------



## McBulls (Apr 28, 2005)

If Wallace, PJ and Nocioni bring their A game (and I think they will), it could be a short series.

I'm sure Wallace can neutralize Webber and provide weak side help as well. Webber won't be roaming out to the perimeter to guard Bulls backcourt players on the pick and roll all night -- he doesn't have the energy or mobility anymore. I don't think he can beat Wallace on the boards.

The key is whether Nocioni, PJ (& maybe Tyrus Thomas) can contain Rasheed Wallace and help Wallace on the boards. PJ is still WAY underrated. He has his game face on for the playoffs, and will be a difference maker in this series. 

The Bulls two veteran front line players are still amoung the best defensive players in the NBA, and their two backup players who are also excellent defensively. They contained Shaq, Zo and friends in the first playoff series. Webber, McDyess & Wallace will seem easy by comparison. The four front line players together have a lot of fouls to give, and are formidable rebounders.

On offense, the Bulls match up pretty well too. Nocioni is nearly as dangerous as Rasheed, and PJ is comparable to McDyess. Webber won't score much more than Ben Wallace. And then there's Tyrus Thomas...

All in all, the Pistons might be an easier opponent than Miami, even with their great wing players and height advantage in the backcourt. I look for Detroit to play a lot of zone to stop the Bulls penetration and hope Chicago has bad shooting nights.


----------



## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

I picked the Heat over the Bulls because, despite my belief that the Bulls are much better than the heat, I thought Miami would have a psychological/officiating edge. 

I was wrong about that because the Bulls mental toughness was incredible. That bodes well for the future of this team for years to come. 

But now the Bulls face the only team in the conference, and one of only 4 teams in the entire NBA, that I think are actually as good or better than Chicago. 

I think Rasheed, home court, and the experience factor give Detroit the edge in this matchup despite the fact that I believe the teams are as closely matched as it gets. 

Detroit in 6.


----------



## Wynn (Jun 3, 2002)

*Bull vs. Piston*

Jan 6 @ Chicago -- *Bull wins 106-89* (no Billups)

Wallace, Deng, Noc, and Gordon all come up big for the Bull. Rip was the only Piston who showed up with a big game.

Feb 5 @ Detroit -- *Bull loses 95-93* (no Nocioni)

Decent games from Gordon, Brown, Deng, Duhon. Nice games from Billups, Prince, Rip, Webber. 14 lead changes in a highly contested match. Came down to final shot.

Mar 29 @ Chicago -- *Bull wins 83-81* (no Webber, no Hamilton, no Nocioni)

Tightly contested game with 6 lead changes and 5 technical fouls. Bull shot .357 from the field and still won. Both Bens and Tyrus had very strong performances.

Apr 4 @ Detroit -- *Bull wins 106-88* (no Wallace, no Nocioni)

Break-out games by Thabo and Tyrus. Nice games from Luol, Kirk, Chris, and PJ. Li'l Ben absolutely stunk. Billups, Wallace, and Webber had average games -- no one was a standout. Prince and Rip were awful.
________________________________________________

Maybe you guys see something that I don't, but *Rasheed is averaging 12 points, 5 rebounds, 1 assist, 1 steal, and 1 block against us this season*. I'm not sure how intimidating those numbers are. Turn it around and *Big Ben is averaging 8 points, 13.7 rebounds, 2.3 assists, 2.7 steals, and 3 blocks* against them. To me, we have their number. I'm sure they wanted to crush us after the first (humiliating) defeat, and they could only muster enough to beat us by 2 on their own floor. The fact that the two blowouts have both been in our favor is HUGE going into this series.

I think we take at least one of the first two, and beat them on their home court in game 5.


----------



## Showtyme (Jun 24, 2002)

Wynn said:


> *Bull vs. Piston*
> 
> Jan 6 @ Chicago -- *Bull wins 106-89* (no Billups)
> 
> ...


I agree with all that.

Notes:

1. We held them under 90 in three wins, and still under a 100 in our only loss. On the other hand, we scored uner 90 only once and over 100 twice.

That seems to me that we can defend them, it's just a matter of whether they can defend us.

2. The fourth game was the "small ball" experiment. I expect to see this in spurts again. Make the Pistons run, and even keep a fast pace in the half-court. They don't have an intimidating shot-blocking presence or great paint defender anymore, although Rasheed still serves that role pretty well. Also, our rookies should feel comfortable playing a winning game against this team, as they both were important in that fourth game as well.

3. In the end, I think they can try to keep it close, but if we play with poise, we've shown we can beat them consistently.


----------



## CanadianBull (May 6, 2006)

The backcourt match-ups are gonna be interesting and ultimately who advances in my mind. Rip and Billups are the focal point of their offense and it's so critical that Kirk and BG try to at least slow them down. 

This Pistons team is a vastly superior to the team we just played but our Bulls aint no slouches either and they proved it against the Heat. If this series doesn't go 6 or 7, I'd be shocked.


----------



## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

Good points both of you (Wynn and Showtyme). I simply have a hard time getting past the experience thing. 

The Heat series went a long way in helping convince me that the Bulls are mentally prepared to hang with the best veteran-loaded teams in the playoffs. Its just they are SO YOUNG, that I keep expecting them to stumble against the big time veteran teams (think Miami, Detroit, San Antonio). And unfortunately (in hindsight "fortunately" as it regards the Heat), we are going to have to play at least 2 of those 3. Talent wise, I think its a complete toss up between Chicago and Detroit. I consider them equals in that regard. They are both top 5 teams in the NBA in my opinion. Experience wise, I'm concerned. History shows that young teams usually take playoff success step by step. The Bulls took their step. Are they ready to immediately become the best team in the East? I just don't know.

And while its true that the Bulls didn't have Chapu for some of those games and didn't have Wallace for the finale, two of the Bulls wins came when Detroit didn't have Chauncy and then Rip. That matters as more than a mere notation if we are going by the regular season.


----------



## Showtyme (Jun 24, 2002)

Ron Cey said:


> Good points both of you (Wynn and Showtyme). I simply have a hard time getting past the experience thing.
> 
> The Heat series went a long way in helping convince me that the Bulls are mentally prepared to hang with the best veteran-loaded teams in the playoffs. Its just they are SO YOUNG, that I keep expecting them to stumble against the big time veteran teams (think Miami, Detroit, San Antonio). And unfortunately (in hindsight "fortunately" as it regards the Heat), we are going to have to play at least 2 of those 3. Talent wise, I think its a complete toss up between Chicago and Detroit. I consider them equals in that regard. They are both top 5 teams in the NBA in my opinion. Experience wise, I'm concerned. History shows that young teams usually take playoff success step by step. The Bulls took their step. Are they ready to immediately become the best team in the East? I just don't know.
> 
> And while its true that the Bulls didn't have Chapu for some of those games and didn't have Wallace for the finale, two of the Bulls wins came when Detroit didn't have Chauncy and then Rip. That matters as more than a mere notation if we are going by the regular season.



Agreed with all of that too. I'm cautious as well.

I BELIEVE that we'll be able to win it in as few as 5 games. But what I know for sure is that Chicago will make it an incredibly good series. 

I think I share your fears that the Bulls will fold, but from what I've seen of them as they were ending the season (all significant games, because it could have been us in the 2 seed) is that that chaos that happens when the youth shows through and composure is lost... it happens for moments, maybe a quarter, but not entire games. That can be enough to lose a game, but what I'm saying is that they've controlled even their lack of composure. Skiles deserves much credit there.

If the Bulls bring their A-game, and the Pistons do too, I think the Bulls win. I really do. But the question that makes this series so exciting is: will the Bulls consistently be able to maintain the composure that they've displayed thus far? And will the Pistons be in championship form or last year's lackluster "not quite enough" form?


----------



## JeremyB0001 (Nov 17, 2003)

theanimal23 said:


> I talk about the pros and cons of each player. From Day 1 I had supported the trade that landed PJ here. Go back and check my post history. Yes I've had my doubts at times, but I felt there was a reason why all of it was done. I have seen the benefits of PJ on this team. The only thing that has made me second guess myself is Chandler's 'break-out' year. But I'll take PJ for a playoff run anyday over him.




P.J. certainly has value in the playoffs but if I could choose who I'd rather have for the remainder of the playoffs between him and (a healthy version of) the guy who put up 9.5 and 12.5 while leading the league in FG%, I'd take Chandler in a heartbeat.

I thought P.J. was far more useful in the first round than during the regular season when in my estimation, he had more poor games than solid ones. However, now that we don't need a defensive answer to Shaq, I'm not sure he'll be as valuable the rest of the way out. If matchups and health allow Noc to continue to play 30+ MPG, I'd like to see Tyrus eat into P.J.'s minutes some.


----------



## Cyanobacteria (Jun 25, 2002)

My glass will remain half-empty, due to the Pistons playoff experience but I think it's pretty close to a toss-up. It's a good thing they're playing an odd number of games.

I'll go on record as saying,

"Both teams gonna play hardt, my man."


----------



## CommonSense (Apr 30, 2007)

The Pistons are in the driver seat for this series' direction. Their achilles heel for this stretch of contention of 4 seasons has always been a let down game in a series which ties into one or two poor 1st half showings that may lead to a let down game. The bad part for Chicago fans is that the Stones are up against their ex-buddy Big Ben so the trend of sluggish, no energy 1st halfs may not be present in this upcoming series. The Bulls have no prominent advantage while the Pistons do have one glaring strength and that is #36, Sheed.

The Bulls cannot expect the Stones to turnover in NCAA-esque fashion like the Heat managed to do in the sweep. The Pistons do have their perpetual dry spells yet the Adolescent (they've grown from Baby) Bulls are guilty of the same pattern in their style of play. So we can expect afew of the games to be four quarters of runs/scoring drought; Pistons up 8, they get cold and the Bulls go up 6, etc. I see the first four games to be tight until the final half of the 4th quarter; the question will then be, does championship experience overcome ignorant, energetic youth?

Against a different team I would think the Pistons lose one at the Palace but most likely not against Big Ben. And Detroit will get one W in the Windy City. If the Bulls don't steal Game 1 or 2 at the Palace then they'll be cooked in 5. Yet if they can throw a KO punch in Game 1/2, this series will go 7.


----------



## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

CommonSense said:


> The Pistons are in the driver seat for this series' direction. Their achilles heel for this stretch of contention of 4 seasons has always been a let down game in a series which ties into one or two poor 1st half showings that may lead to a let down game. The bad part for Chicago fans is that the Stones are up against their ex-buddy Big Ben so the trend of sluggish, no energy 1st halfs may not be present in this upcoming series. The Bulls have no prominent advantage while the Pistons do have one glaring strength and that is #36, Sheed.
> 
> The Bulls cannot expect the Stones to turnover in NCAA-esque fashion like the Heat managed to do in the sweep. The Pistons do have their perpetual dry spells yet the Adolescent (they've grown from Baby) Bulls are guilty of the same pattern in their style of play. So we can expect afew of the games to be four quarters of runs/scoring drought; Pistons up 8, they get cold and the Bulls go up 6, etc. I see the first four games to be tight until the final half of the 4th quarter; the question will then be, does championship experience overcome ignorant, energetic youth?
> 
> Against a different team I would think the Pistons lose one at the Palace but most likely not against Big Ben. And Detroit will get one W in the Windy City. If the Bulls don't steal Game 1 or 2 at the Palace then they'll be cooked in 5. Yet if they can throw a KO punch in Game 1/2, this series will go 7.


Welcome to the site, Common!


----------



## transplant (Jul 31, 2002)

I'm not making any predictions. Frankly, I suck at it. If you'd have put me under sodium pentathol, I wouldn't have predicted the Bulls getting past the Heat.

Despite the fact that I watched just about every Bulls game this season, the team I saw beat the snot out of the Heat surprised the hell out of me. In truly big games (Cavs and Nets as late season examples), the Bulls did not play well. Entering the playoffs, my heart was optimistic, but my head begged to differ.

Before the Heat series, if you'd have asked me if the Bulls could beat the Pistons in a 7-game playoff series, my head would've quickly replied NFW. Not only have these Pistons recently won an NBA championship, they've gotten at least to the EC finals in each of the past 5 seasons...successful playoff experience out the ying-yang. All of their key players, with the exception of Webber, are still in their prime. 

I mean, what on earth makes anyone think that this Bulls team, that just won their first playoff series in nearly a decade, can conclusively prove that they're a better team than the Pistons ('cause that's what a 7-game series does)?

Again, I'm not predicting anything. However, for those who break it down to "Hinrich has to be better than Hamilton, Gordon needs to be better than Billups, Deng needs to be better than Prince, etc." miss an important point IMO. The way both the Bulls and the Pistons play, it's a team game, and that includes the coaching.

This figures to be a TERRIFIC series.


----------



## RSP83 (Nov 24, 2002)

The Pistons is going to be a one tough matchup. Their players have length and younger than the Heat's. Hinrich and Noce has to step up their offensive game. I expect Deng and Gordon's point production to go down a little.

The guy that I'm most worried about is Rasheed Wallace. We've been having tough time defending tall shooter like Mehmet Okur this season. Okur killed us in our two meetings this season. Rasheed Wallace is certainly capable of what Okur did to us this season. We just don't have the clear answer for him. But if I may suggest, Skiles should try Tyrus Thomas on Wallace. Tyrus although not as tall as Sheed, he's certainly quicker and more athletic. Big Ben, Noce, and PJ can take care of McDyess and Webber just fine.

So, IMO, Skiles don't have any choice but to play Tyrus in this series. And I'm definitely tuning in for that. Based on my observation so far, Tyrus is a big game player. He was just that in college and he showed flashes during the season. And in limited minutes he got during the Heat series, he made quite an impact. The back-to-back blocks and alley-oop sequence was an evidence.


----------



## narek (Jul 29, 2005)

I'm going on record as saying someone will be tossed for complaining way too much to the refs, and someone on the Pistons will be bugged by Skiles and spend a lot of time complaining about it.

Good times.


----------



## RSP83 (Nov 24, 2002)

Oh, I forgot the prediction.

Bulls in 6

Flip Saunders will find a way to choke.


----------



## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

transplant said:


> I mean, what on earth makes anyone think that this Bulls team, that just won their first playoff series in nearly a decade, can conclusively prove that they're a better team than the Pistons ('cause that's what a 7-game series does)?


----------



## Orange Julius Irving (Jun 28, 2004)

Wynn said:


> *Bull vs. Piston*
> 
> Jan 6 @ Chicago -- *Bull wins 106-89* (no Billups)
> 
> ...




I tried a thread about how The 1st game of the Season against the Heat really set the tone and the Bulls carried it through to a sweep. Even Shaq admitted as much almost word for word.
So the regular season DID have a bearing on how the playoffs went.

I went on to say that we were a Ben Gordon miss from sweeping the Pistons, and I think sweeping the Heat put some concern into the Pistons. I would bet they thought they would get a banged up team that went either 6 or 7 games while they got all the extra rest.

I won't go on record with my prediction cause it isn't good, so I hope I am wrong. 

Go Bulls!!!! 

This will be a great series and fun to watch. I kept laughing whenever Hubie Brown would say that, and he said it allot. Other than Doug Collins there is nobody else on ESPN/TNT that I like listening to.


----------



## harley (May 24, 2006)

Is Noc 100 percent yet? Because we need him to be if we are going to get pass the Pistons.


----------



## CommonSense (Apr 30, 2007)

The regular season Sheed and the playoff Sheed (especially this year, he appears to be extremely focused) are two completely different species; not to mention Sheed will be fired up to take out "the Other Wallace" and to add fuel to the fire, his favorite Argentinian, Andres will be defending him at times throughout the series. Billups may be the MVP of the team but Sheed is the keystone on both ends of the floor. So don't bother to reference how Sheed played in the regular season.

The main question for Chicago is can Deng maintain the scoring prowess of 25+ pgg? How will Chicago fare in a primarily halfcourt game? Where is the depth at PF/C for Chicago if PJ/Ben get into foul trouble? Will Ben Wallace hit a pair of clutch FT's at the Palace? :biggrin:


----------



## SPIN DOCTOR (Oct 31, 2002)

Bulls in FIVE.

This is not the matchup the Pistons wanted, they wanted revenge on the decrepit and slow Heat. They were lucky not to get swept in the regular season series, so confidence-wise the Bulls should feel very good. 

I see use very even at the 1,2,@4 with a clear advantage at 3&5. Clearly I do not value Sheed as high today as many other posters, but I see him on the downslope and not a game changer anymore. PJ can contain him and Tyrus will frustrate him.

Big Ben will be a man possessed this series, and will set the tone for the team. The Bulls just need to execute and be solid to take this series, were a terrible matchup for Detroit.

I also put my $ on Skiles in the coaching department, if he can scheme with Riley, Flip simply will not out coach Skiles.


----------



## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

idk, I think we can sweep the Eastern playoffs.

We are the best team in the East. We have two hungry players in Ben Gordon and Luol Deng. Both want to make a name for themselves as superstars in the league, in addition, they wouldn't mind padding their contracts a bit more. Then you have Nocioni, he's just a winner. Wallace, he is hungry.

When I watched the Pistons in the first round, they are not a good team. They were just going through the motions. The team just has to look back on what they did, that worked against the Heat. Look back at the regular season, what allowed us to blow them out. The bigs in Detroit don't really do too much damage in the paint, so that plays to us. As long as we rebound, and don't turn the ball over, this should be a short series. Pistons just look like a team that is satisfied, their big 4 all have their championships. They don't look like our guys, they won their series just because Orlando is such a god awful team.

Looking forward, to the conference finals, that should be a sweep. Cavs are a HORRIBLE team. We just need to rebound in that series. The Cavs have trouble getting ahead of their opponents by too much because their offense sucks. Just control the boards, and thats an easy sweep. 

Finals are going to be tough. Suns could easily sweep us, same with Spurs. But we can definitely compete with them as well.


----------



## Nu_Omega (Nov 27, 2006)

Mebarak said:


> idk, I think we can sweep the Eastern playoffs.
> 
> We are the best team in the East. We have two hungry players in Ben Gordon and Luol Deng. Both want to make a name for themselves as superstars in the league, in addition, they wouldn't mind padding their contracts a bit more. Then you have Nocioni, he's just a winner. Wallace, he is hungry.
> 
> ...


That's pretty optimistic, claiming that the bulls can sweep the east imho. The pistons have been there for the past 4 seasons, they'll know a thing or two and based on the way the nets are playing, they are no flukes either, not too sure about the cavs though. 
It's gonna be a tough one vs the pistons but the bulls have the momentum while playing away at the moment since we've won 2 straight at miami. Steal one at the palace and i'll love our chances. I think Skiles will have something up his sleeves to counter Flip.


----------



## JeremyB0001 (Nov 17, 2003)

harley said:


> Is Noc 100 percent yet? Because we need him to be if we are going to get pass the Pistons.


I'm surprised that no one seems to be talking about it. K.C. reported yesterday that the PF that kept him out for 29 games is back and his leg (the calf or thigh bruise from game 3?) is bothering him but he's a warrior so he'll play through it. Honestly, it sounds somewhat grim to me. Hopefully the week off will do him a lot of good and Skiles will limit his minutes a little.


----------



## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

theanimal23 said:


> Take it easy, please.
> 
> I have given credit to PJ . I also critique him, but I do that for every player on this team. I don't hold PJ on a pedestal and make posts revolving around him left and right.
> 
> ...


Don't worry, I remember reading about the post you made on what a fantastic job PJ and Big Ben had done in the Miami series. All I'm saying is that because Detroit plays slower than Miami, we need P.J.'s experience and calming influence out on the court more in this series rather than the 'ever-energetic, don't know what you'll get' Tyrus Thomas. I'm sorry but you can't expect a rookie to start dominating or have a huge role in the playoffs, especially the 2nd round.

I see Tyrus getting 10, 15 minutes max in this series with P.J. getting about 25-35 minutes in this series. The reason I said what I said was because you said P.J. was ineffective against Detroit but P.J.(Feb. 25) played well on Sheed and P.J. had 19 points and 12 rebounds with many of his points coming off screen-and-rolls with Hinrich. 

I remember watching that game and seeing how the Pistons would make a huge run, start grabbing more rebounds, more confidence, start hitting threes, their defense became more crisp, our offense became stagnant, we couldn't make shot's, we turned the ball over and our defense became inconsistent during the times P.J. was sent to the bench (particularly the second half).

Also on April 4, P.J. had another solid game at Detroit even with Ben Wallace being out in that game. So basically I should've said it another way, what makes you think that P.J. will be less effective in this series than the Miami one?????


----------



## rwj333 (Aug 10, 2002)

I just wanted to chime in and predict a win. We played extremely well against them in the regular season and that should carry over. It's funny how we can dominate certain teams and not others that are worse on paper, like the Nets and the Cavs.


----------



## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

SPIN DOCTOR said:


> Bulls in FIVE.
> 
> This is not the matchup the Pistons wanted, they wanted revenge on the decrepit and slow Heat. They were lucky not to get swept in the regular season series, so confidence-wise the Bulls should feel very good.
> 
> ...


Very, very good points. Wow.


----------



## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

Honestly, and I am being very honest, i really think Detroit is not very good and overrated in my opinion. We just have too many weapons for them to handle.

We are hungrier, we are faster, we have a better coach, we have a better defense, veteran leadership (Big Ben, Griff, P.J.), we have youngsters (Thabo, Tyrus, core), we have a better bench, a hungry 'you never shoud've let me go, I'ma gonna prove you Detroit doubters wrong' in Ben Wallace, a title-hungry P.J. Brown, we came off an impressive sweep against Miami (even with Riles, D-Whistle and Shaq- league loves promoting these guys) and we still overcame that, we beat them 3 out of four times, we have more confidence. 

I can go on and on but my point is as long as the officiating is fair or is similar to the Miami series I honestly believe we can win in 5 or 6 games.

Edit: I also forgot one major advantage. We have Ben Wallace and Big Ben knows in general what the Pistons run on offense and tell our guys what to expect and the tendencies and weaknesses of each player. Surely, the Pistons scheme can't change a whole lot from last year-they still run screens for Hamilton, C-Billups and Sheed's pick and rolls etc.. Big Ben will be HUGE in this series. I can already feel it.

Like the ESPN commercial: *Will you be watching when*???


----------



## Nu_Omega (Nov 27, 2006)

bullybullz said:


> Honestly, and I am being very honest, i really think Detroit is not very good and overrated in my opinion. We just have too many weapons for them to handle.
> 
> We are hungrier, we are faster, we have a better coach, we have a better defense, veteran leadership (Big Ben, Griff, P.J.), we have youngsters (Thabo, Tyrus, core), we have a better bench, a hungry 'you never shoud've let me go, I'ma gonna prove you Detroit doubters wrong' in Ben Wallace, a title-hungry P.J. Brown, we came off an impressive sweep against Miami (even with Riles, D-Whistle and Shaq- league loves promoting these guys) and we still overcame that, we beat them 3 out of four times, we have more confidence.
> 
> ...


That's an amazing change in sentiments after citing that the bulls will get swept and blown out by the heats in the 1st round. :raised_ey 

But i'll take it :biggrin: 

Go bulls!


----------



## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

Nu_Omega said:


> That's an amazing change in sentiments after citing that the bulls will get swept and blown out by the heats in the 1st round. :raised_ey
> 
> But i'll take it :biggrin:
> 
> Go bulls!


Well, I said earlier (I made a thread about a youtube video of Wade against the Lakers) that I believed the Bulls would've been swepped because of D-Whistle and Shaq and we know the NBA loves promoting these guys (more revenue for the NBA). I also said that if the officiating is somewhat fair, we would win. The sweep statement was under the assumption of the bias officiating in favor of the Heat.


----------



## MLKG (Aug 25, 2003)

bullybullz said:


> Edit: I also forgot one major advantage. We have Ben Wallace and Big Ben knows in general what the Pistons run on offense and tell our guys what to expect and the tendencies and weaknesses of each player. Surely, the Pistons scheme can't change a whole lot from last year-they still run screens for Hamilton, C-Billups and Sheed's pick and rolls etc.. Big Ben will be HUGE in this series. I can already feel it.


This is, to me, the biggest matchup point in the series and nobody is mentioning it.

The Bulls have Ben Wallace.

The same Ben Wallace that submarined Detroit's offense in playoff series after playoff series.

Detroit has 5 years of playoff experience with Ben to draw on here. 5 years of watching other teams tailor there defense around ignoring him and playing 5 on 4 (and having wild success doing so). Now they get to do it themselves. 

Look what Don Nelson's knowledge of Dirk's game has done for Golden State in their first round series. Detroit's knowledge of Ben has the potential to be just as exploitive, if not more.


----------



## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

I don't think I actually made a prediction of the Miami series, but I figured it could go Heat in 6 or Bulls in 4 or 5. The Heat win if they Shaq and Wade play at the level they did last year. They both played like garbage for the most part, partly due to the Bulls and partly due to them just looking tired, slow, hurt, scared and resigned to their fate.

The Pistons won't have that problem, I don't think, because guys like Billups Prince and Hamilton won't wuss out. Webber is always a threat to, however, and Wallace cloaks his wussiness in a veneer of needlessly getting tossed from games. I'm not sold on Flip Saunders figuring out how to stop anyone. So I think it will be harder, but not impossible to shatter their confidence and make them give up the way the Heat seemed to. If I had to bet, I'd say it won't happen.

Matchup wise, I think our biggest challenge is figuring out what to do with Gordon defensively. Looking back at the prior matchups this year with the Pistons, something almost always seemed to come up to prevent us from having to figure out how to guard both Rip and Billups

Game 1: Billups hurt, we get to play against Flip Murray. Bulls win 106-89.
Game 2: Pistons and Bulls full strength. Pistons win 95-93.
Game 3: No Rip, No Webber, Bulls win 83-81.
Game 4: No Ben Wallace, Bulls go with Deng on Sheed and PJ on Webber, and Thabo Starting. Gordon picks up quick fouls and plays only 12 minutes. Bulls win 106-88.

What I'm getting at here in that Kirk is a pretty good matchup on either Billups or Hamilton. He could probably stick with Prince, but Prince is the least threat offensively and Kirk is the best perimeter guy. Kirk needs to be on one of them. Deng will need to guard Prince because although he could guard Hamilton it'd be a tough cover for Gordon to guard a 6'9" SF consistently.

So do you put Kirk on Billups and Ben on Rip or vice versa? I think either way it's tough for Ben. Billups is the biggest threat because he drives and draws a lot of contact and overall is the biggest scorer. I tend to think we need to put Kirk on him. But Rip is so long and gets up so high that he could quite probably shoot over Ben a lot. And he draws a lot of contact too. Reverse things and put Kirk on Rip and I think Ben has a hard time staying in front of Billups.

Thabo played some really nice minutes for us vs. Wade and I think he's a partial solution here. What we did in the last game, going "small" with Deng at the 4, was interesting and I hope to see a fair amount of that. Sheed's hardly a banger, so I don't see Deng getting victimized by him, and I think Wallace will be able to bring help if he's largely matched up on Webber.

A second thing that concerns me is if we collapse too much on Webber or whomever penetrates, the way we usually do, the Pistons, unlike the Heat, will make us pay. Webber and really Sheed too, are a couple of the best passing bigs in the league, and Billups has become very good at making difficult passes. What's worse, everyone on their team is a good bet to knock down an open shot. So we'll have to stay very disciplined against them, I think.

Offensively, Prince and Sheed, especially Prince, will be much tougher on Deng than anything Miami threw at him. Rip will keep up with Gordon, but I don't think he can stop Gordon. The question is whether Ben can stay on the court. If he can, that'll help. I think aside from Ben, our best options are getting Deng, Noc and Tyrus (if his head isn't still spinning) loose close to the basket. Again, if we go small and force Prince to come off Deng, we free him up a bit. And above all, the more we attack Webber, the better off we are.

So can it work? I think it's going to be tough. If I had to guess I'd say Pistons in 6. If we win, it's in 7, and it's because either Gordon's a better defender than I give him credit for or we've exploited our matchups to score at will inside, which I think will be a bit tough to do.


----------



## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

Mark my words...this will be an EPIC playoff series. One that we'll be talking about for the next 10 years, just like the Bad Boy rivalies from the 80's/early 90's. I'm convinced it'll go a full 7 games.

And you know what? I think the Bulls will win this series in 7. The Pistons did not want to face their bad*** buddy Big Ben. We're primed for the upset. Home court advantage doesn't even matter in this series, IMO. We'll beat them at their place, they'll beat us at ours. Can't wait.


----------



## McBulls (Apr 28, 2005)

MikeDC said:


> I don't think I actually made a prediction of the Miami series, but I figured it could go Heat in 6 or Bulls in 4 or 5. The Heat win if they Shaq and Wade play at the level they did last year. They both played like garbage for the most part, partly due to the Bulls and partly due to them just looking tired, slow, hurt, scared and resigned to their fate.
> 
> The Pistons won't have that problem, I don't think, because guys like Billups Prince and Hamilton won't wuss out. Webber is always a threat to, however, and Wallace cloaks his wussiness in a veneer of needlessly getting tossed from games. I'm not sold on Flip Saunders figuring out how to stop anyone. So I think it will be harder, but not impossible to shatter their confidence and make them give up the way the Heat seemed to. If I had to bet, I'd say it won't happen.
> 
> ...


Nice analysis.  Gordon is very much on the spot against this team -- on both ends of the floor. Not only does he have matchup problems on defense, but you can expect the Pistons to attack him on the pick and roll with double teams, trying to make him turn the ball over.

The Bulls really had no answer to Shaq either. They simply turned what appeared to be a strength into a weakness with their small-ball lineup. The same holds true for the Pistons. They really don't have a Chris Paul type player who can stop Gordon from getting his shot -- maybe Billips, but I doubt it. So if it becomes a Hamilton-Gordon shootout, I like my chances with Gordon.


----------



## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

rwj333 said:


> It's funny how we can dominate certain teams and not others that are worse on paper, like the Nets and the Cavs.


Yeah, I think it's pretty ridiculous also. The Nets or Cavs should be a non-factor to us but they seem to be the two teams Bulls fans fear MOST in these eastern off's.


----------



## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

The ROY said:


> Yeah, I think it's pretty ridiculous also. The Nets or Cavs should be a non-factor to us but they seem to be the two teams Bulls fans fear MOST in these eastern off's.


Add the Clippers to that list.

And while the Rockets and Jazz are both solid teams, we never seem to have a prayer against either. I'd MUCH rather play the Suns than either of those. If we happen to make it to the Finals (fingers crossed), the Suns are my team of choice by a long shot.


----------



## McBulls (Apr 28, 2005)

The ROY said:


> Yeah, I think it's pretty ridiculous also. The Nets or Cavs should be a non-factor to us but they seem to be the two teams Bulls fans fear MOST in these eastern off's.


Slipping some valium to Jason Kidd before the game would help. They guy plays a career game every time he sees Skiles bald head in the gym. He should tape Skiles scouling face to his locker.


----------



## Wishbone (Jun 10, 2002)

I'm seeing a lot of good analysis on the matchups here...

whom Gordon has to defend (and this will probably change throughout each game) is going to be a factor, because we clearly need him on the floor as much as possible. I'm not worried about Duhon or Thabos ability to guard their cover... but neither is capable of getting free and hitting the shot or driving to draw the foul like Gordon can.

The thing that worries me the most is how the Pistons are able to rely on their experience. They simply will not get rattled at any point in this series. They will not fall apart the way Miami did, and they will not chump out on the defensive end. Further, the way they maintain their composure and just simply execute on the offensive end is incredibly impressive.
It would actually behoove the Bulls to play their wild herky-jerky style, in the hopes that it draws Detroit out of their game... but I wouldn't count on that as a reliable option (and it leads to way too many sloppy turnovers anyway)

if the Bulls can equally execute on their offensive possessions, then I like our chances... but it's definitely going to take their absolute best game - 4 times - to pull this one out.


----------



## RoRo (Aug 21, 2002)

jason kidd is averaging a triple double in the playoffs: 13p, 13a, 11rebs!


----------



## rwj333 (Aug 10, 2002)

I think you guys are understating Gordon's potential difficulties on offense - I've seen Rip give him some problems on offense because he's tireless and long - and underrating his defense. I don't think he's going to fare too badly against Billups, who's pretty streaky and not _that_ quick. Ginobili/Parker and Kidd/Carter are far worse matchups; Kidd because of his size and Parker because of his quickness. For some reason the Pistons haven't posted Gordon up, either, though that will probably change. I've also seen Gordon exert himself on defense a lot more now that it's the playoffs, despite playing 40+ minutes. He definitely, uh, conserves his energy during the regular season. 

Anyone remember the 3rd game against Pistons, after which Flip ominously said "We learned some things on how to play them," mostly referring to Gordon? That worries me. We didn't see anything implemented because Gordon was in foul trouble the 4th game. But I expect to see him trapped quite a bit. Hopefully he can pass out of the double teams and the rest of the Bulls can capitalize as they did against the Heat.


----------



## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

Wishbone said:


> The thing that worries me the most is how the Pistons are able to rely on their experience. They simply will not get rattled at any point in this series. They will not fall apart the way Miami did/QUOTE]
> 
> I disagree with this. Chicago has bothered Detriot probably more than ANY other team in the NBA SINCE Larry Brown was their headcoach.
> 
> Tell me WHY everytime we play them, they always seem to crumble mentally towards the end of the games? The Bulls BOTHER them, plain and simple.


----------



## McBulls (Apr 28, 2005)

rwj333 said:


> Anyone remember the 3rd game against Pistons, after which Flip ominously said "We learned some things on how to play them," mostly referring to Gordon? That worries me. We didn't see anything implemented because Gordon was in foul trouble the 4th game. But I expect to see him trapped quite a bit. Hopefully he can pass out of the double teams and the rest of the Bulls can capitalize as they did against the Heat.


I remember that quote. Hope Skiles does too. In that game the Pistons had a lot of success with a zone and half-court zone trap. The Bulls didn't seem to have good plans for dealing with those defenses.


----------



## RoRo (Aug 21, 2002)

gordan getting trapped has been a common weakness. 
he tends to back peddle into a corner and the others tend to just stand still and watch.

i think it's something the coaches are aware of and i know miami is slower, but it's encouraging they could not consistently harrass gordan into turnovers.

we'll see, flip may have that ace up his sleeve, but i think skiles got the last word with the small lineup that ran circles around detroit. pistons will say they weren't interested in playing us because big ben was out, but i don't think they made any adjustments during that game to say it was merely a one game gimmick.


----------



## rosenthall (Aug 1, 2002)

McBulls said:


> I remember that quote. Hope Skiles does too. In that game the Pistons had a lot of success with a zone and half-court zone trap. The Bulls didn't seem to have good plans for dealing with those defenses.


That has worried me as well. On offense, I'm worried about three things: using a stiff halfcourt trap against us and particularly Ben Gordon in close situations, their ability to move the ball on offense, and the fact the Pistons might use their knowledge of Ben Wallace to really exploit his shortcomings.

Despite his massive improvement this season (and it was quite impressive), Ben's still not a particularly good ball handler and has a tendency to make bad decisions when under duress. I could see the Pistons using the length of Billups, Hamilton, and Prince to aggressively trap Ben in an attempt to phase him out of the offense and force him into some silly turnovers. The teams ability to deal with Detroit's press will be critical, because I believe almost all of the games in this series will be close, and the ability to handle pressure at the end of halves and in the waning minutes will often play a very large role in who wins the series.

Throughout the Skiles regime, our swarming style of defense has occasionally been exposed by good shooting teams that can effectively get the ball to the open man. I still cringe when the resulting ball movement makes our defense look like a peewee soccer game with 5 guys scurrying after the ball after each pass. In general, it's not too much of a problem since teams that are good enough to do that to us are few and far between and we bring a fair amount of defensive intensity relative to other teams in the league, so it can usually be overcome. However, I've always felt that in a 7 game series against a quality opponent (like the Pistons, for example) such a weakness could be exploited pretty regularly. We saw a similar effect against New Jersey, but I would be concerned over our tendency to give up open baskets due to over-pursuing in this series.

And after watching Don Nelson yo-yo Dirk Nowitzki's psyche en route to a 3-1 series lead, I'm not going to discount that a similar situation might occur with Ben Wallace and his former teammates of 5 years. The situation goes both ways, but I think the potential scenario of the Pistons using a hack-a-Ben strategy the last three minutes of a game, in conjunction with a well executed half court press could wreak havoc on our team's ability to execute effectively in critical points of each game.

As far as who to guard who in the backcourt, I think the answer is fairly easy. Ben Gordon is remarkably similar to Chauncey Billups in physical stature, and at this point, has a bit more going on athletically. Chauncey's a wiley guy to be sure, and I have little doubt that he'll be use his veteran smarts to catch Ben napping here and there, but I'd much rather have Ben on him than chasing Rip Hamilton through screens for 24 seconds on each defensive possession, which is a resonsibility that Kirk Hinrich is much better suited for.

I also look forward to seeing if Tyrus Thomas will be able to capitalize on the window of opportunity that awaits him in this series. Without a lumbering mastodon in the paint to render him unnecessary, I think he has a great chance to match up with Chris Webber and Rasheed Wallace and use his athleticism to the teams advantage and make a name for himself on a national stage.


----------



## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

This post makes very little sense to me:



MLKG said:


> This is, to me, the biggest matchup point in the series and nobody is mentioning it.
> 
> The Bulls have Ben Wallace.
> 
> The same Ben Wallace that submarined Detroit's offense in playoff series after playoff series.


The last 5 years with Ben Wallace "submarining" Detroit's offense has yielded 5 consecutive Eastern Conference Finals appearances, 2 NBA Finals appearances, and 1 Championship. 

They managed. And the year they won it all, their leading scorer averaged 17.9 points per game. The Bulls have 2 players who score more and one more only 1 ppg behind. 



> Detroit has 5 years of playoff experience with Ben to draw on here. 5 years of watching other teams tailor there defense around ignoring him and playing 5 on 4 (and having wild success doing so). Now they get to do it themselves.


They had that chance 3 times this season as well, and lost twice. 



> Look what Don Nelson's knowledge of Dirk's game has done for Golden State in their first round series.


Don Nelson raised Dirk as an NBA player. Flip coached Ben for 1 year and they hated each other. 

Moreover, stopping Dirk is stopping the #1 offensive threat and most important offensive player on the team. Shut him down, Dallas becomes ineffective.

Wallace already doesn't score. So Detroit will have 3 or 4 players to stop. 3 or 4 players who have been playing against defenses ignoring Wallace all season long. Its not as though it will be a revelation when Detroit sags on Wallace. 



> Detroit's knowledge of Ben has the potential to be just as exploitive, if not more.


Justify that.


----------



## step (Sep 19, 2005)

> Justify that.


What's there to justify? He was with the Pistons for quite some time, I'm sure during that period the players and staff figured out his strengths and weaknesses, not to mention his tendencies and so forth.


----------



## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

step said:


> What's there to justify? He was with the Pistons for quite some time, I'm sure during that period the players and staff figured out his strengths and weaknesses, not to mention his tendencies and so forth.


Sure, but it's a two-way street. Any knowledge of him they have is counteracted by his knowledge of them. It's a nonsensical argument.


----------



## step (Sep 19, 2005)

> Sure, but it's a two-way street. Any knowledge of him they have is counteracted by his knowledge of them. It's a nonsensical argument.


I don't think it is. His job is to play, not look at all the minuscule details of every other player on the team. He will have some knowledge of them, not as much as the coaching staff will have on him.

Is it really that big of a deal, I doubt it.


----------



## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

step said:


> What's there to justify? He was with the Pistons for quite some time, I'm sure during that period the players and staff figured out his strengths and weaknesses, not to mention his tendencies and so forth.


Not justify that it could be "exploitive" - justify that it could be "more exploitive" than what is happening with Dirk. I.e., compare the 2 scenarios and justify that statement.


----------



## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

step said:


> I don't think it is. His job is to play, not look at all the minuscule details of every other player on the team. He will have some knowledge of them, not as much as the coaching staff will have on him.


Flip coached him for one year. And it isn't as though "how to defend Ben Wallace" is some sort of Da Vinci's code. He's a lousy scorer. So focus your attention elsewhere. 

If it took Flip and his staff a whole year to figure that out, then they are a little slow on the uptake. The book on defending Ben Wallace is probably about 1 page long and was written years ago. I dare say every coach has read it. 

Detroit gets no advantage from this any different than any other team coached by any other coach.


----------



## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

step said:


> I don't think it is. His job is to play, not look at all the minuscule details of every other player on the team. He will have some knowledge of them, not as much as the coaching staff will have on him.
> 
> Is it really that big of a deal, I doubt it.


I couldn't disagree more strongly. You think that his playing with them prevented him from learning heaps about the players he was playing with? Absolutely impossible.


----------



## step (Sep 19, 2005)

> You think that his playing with them prevented him from learning heaps about the players he was playing with?


No, but I'm just saying that while he'll know "some"(whatever amount you believe he knows) about his former team mates, the staff & management would know everything about him.



> Flip coached him for one year. And it isn't as though "how to defend Ben Wallace" is some sort of Da Vinci's code. He's a lousy scorer. So focus your attention elsewhere.


They won't be able to exploit him on the defensive end? Putting him in his less than comfortable situations to minimize the impact he can have.


----------



## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

step said:


> No, but I'm just saying that while he'll know "some"(whatever amount you believe he knows) about his former team mates, the staff & management would know everything about him.


I guess we'll have to agree to disagree here. I think, if anything, Ben will have learned more in his many years playing with his teammates than Flip would have learned about Ben.

Furthermore, I can't imagine there's any great mystery to figuring out how to play him. He does not have a complicated approach to the game of basketball.

There is no strategic advantage, whatsoever, that Flip has just because he coached Wallace for a year. None.


----------



## AllEyezonTX (Nov 16, 2006)

MJ/Isiah Thomas will be watching....lol


----------



## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

step said:


> They won't be able to exploit him on the defensive end? Putting him in his less than comfortable situations to minimize the impact he can have.


Not in a way not already apparent to any coach in the NBA - stretch him out by keeping him away from the basket.

Again, this strategy is well-known and has been employed for years by any team with this ability (the Heat, for example, don't have that ability). 

There is no special advantage to Flip.

Its like saying Dusty Baker would have some special ability to negate Barry Bonds because, having coached Barry, Dusty would know that its often a good idea to pitch around him.


----------



## tweedy (Apr 4, 2005)

Slightly OT, but for general interest, here's ESPN Sportsnation's poll:

Which team will represent the Eastern Conference in the NBA Finals?

Bulls 43%
Cavs 17%
Pistons 37%
Nets/Raps 4%


----------



## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

jnrjr79 said:


> Sure, but it's a two-way street. Any knowledge of him they have is counteracted by his knowledge of them. It's a nonsensical argument.


Actually we have the upper hand. Only the Pistons know how Big Ben plays. Big Ben knows about 9 of these players (10 if you count C-Webb, they played together in Washington). That was what I was talking about. And of course, Big Ben knows in general terms, what the Pistons run on offense and there tendencies on defense. That's why we have the upper hand for sure. Big Ben knows these guys. The Pistons and Flip only know Big Ben.


----------



## ViciousFlogging (Sep 3, 2003)

I'm not sure how much of an issue it is at all. These teams are in the same division. The Pistons' core has stayed the same minus Wallace's defection to us. Our core has stayed fairly stable, though some of the other pieces have changed and our young guys have grown. These guys have played each other quite a bit. I don't think there will be any shocking surprises awaiting us or them.

I will say that there's no one I'd rather have anchoring our defense against the Pistons than BW3, but I don't necessarily think his knowledge of his former team will play a deciding role.


----------



## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

ViciousFlogging said:


> I'm not sure how much of an issue it is at all. These teams are in the same division. The Pistons' core has stayed the same minus Wallace's defection to us. Our core has stayed fairly stable, though some of the other pieces have changed and our young guys have grown. These guys have played each other quite a bit. I don't think there will be any shocking surprises awaiting us or them.
> 
> I will say that there's no one I'd rather have anchoring our defense against the Pistons than BW3, but I don't necessarily think his knowledge of his former team will play a deciding role.


Fine, from your perspective it certainly can't have a negative impact, either its neutral or a positive factor for us (although I disagree with what you said).


----------



## MLKG (Aug 25, 2003)

Ron Cey said:


> Wallace already doesn't score. So Detroit will have 3 or 4 players to stop. 3 or 4 players who have been playing against defenses ignoring Wallace all season long. Its not as though it will be a revelation when Detroit sags on Wallace.


Detroit/New Jersey - 0-4 2003 
Detroit/New Jersey - 4-3 2004
Detroit/Cleveland - 4-3 2006

Those are three best examples of the Ben Wallace playoff defense. In that first series the better team swept. In the other two a worse team was able to extend a series to 7 games and give Detroit a legit scare based almost entirely on defensive adjustments made to guard 4 players with 5 guys.

The playoffs are different than the regular season. It doesn't matter if the Bulls have been scoring with Wallace in the lineup all year. In the regular season there is no time to practice and make major adjustments for playing one team. 

It's something that has happened time after time with Wallace and it will happen again. Detroit is going to focus everything on Chicago's perimeter guys and dare Ben to try and score.

And, no, it doesn't go both ways. Ben knows the guys in Detroit so that may help him, but it doesn't help Chicago in any way from a strategy stand point. Ben spent 1 year in Flip's offense and because of his limitations only a very small portion of the playbook was intalled. They still run the high pick and roll stuff (but it doesn't exactly take insider knowledge to defend that) but there is entirely new sets of stuff they run to take advantage of Webber's passing that they never used last year.


----------



## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

MLKG said:


> Detroit/New Jersey - 0-4 2003
> Detroit/New Jersey - 4-3 2004
> Detroit/Cleveland - 4-3 2006
> 
> ...


Watching the Orldando series, the Pistons didn't go to C-Webb a whole lot so I don't think that is much of a problem for Chicago. Besides, C-Webb is old, slow, no-D and we need to take advantage by driving to the rack.


----------



## McBulls (Apr 28, 2005)

1st rnd MPG	FG%	FT%	OFF	DEF	RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
Wallace 39.8	.542	.611	2.5	7.3	9.8 1.8 1.5 1.5 0.75 2.8 9.3
Webber 30.5	.583	.429	2.8	5.0	7.8	2.0	1.0 0.8 1.00 3.3 12.0

Looks like Wallace (eff=18.5) is no more of an offensive liability than Webber in the last round. 
Webber (eff=16.75) scored a few more points, but made quite a few more turnovers and had more personal fouls.
Both players had tough defensive assignments (Shaq and Howard), but Wallace clearly did the better overall job of defending his man (Shaq efficiency = 15.75; Howard efficiency = 19.75).

The last thing I'm worried about in the Detroit series is whether Webber will outplay Wallace on either end of the floor. Quite the contrary, it's Detroit that should be worried about this matchup. 

The idea that the gimpy Webber will leave his man to guard perimeter players is too silly to contemplate.


----------



## CommonSense (Apr 30, 2007)

Sorry Bulls fans, Webber plays against Ben very well throughout his career. This is not the same Webber from his stint with the Sixers. That should be an area of concern; Webber is a quality defensive rebounder (huge hands, natural ability) and on offense Ben does not guard him well. Perhaps PJ would be the better option but that would leave Wallace on Wallace which will be interesting to see these two competitors playing at a high level when it is win or go home. It is a critical matchup issue for the Bulls to take on the three headed monster of Webber, Wallace and Dyess. Some of you have clearly not seen these guys play at a high level this year and more so now in these playoffs.

Ty Thomas may be the best big man in the series for Chicago but he still cannot defend any of the Piston bigs on the block. He may show some strong help side defense, high rising rebounds, fast break dunks, garbge putbacks but Ty, Ben and PJ have their work cut out for them this series. It is the biggest advantage Detroit has on offense and they will exploit it until the Bulls answer the challenge.


----------



## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

CommonSense said:


> Sorry Bulls fans, Webber plays against Ben very well throughout his career. This is not the same Webber from his stint with the Sixers. That should be an area of concern; Webber is a quality defensive rebounder (huge hands, natural ability) and on offense Ben does not guard him well. Perhaps PJ would be the better option but that would leave Wallace on Wallace which will be interesting to see these two competitors playing at a high level when it is win or go home. It is a critical matchup issue for the Bulls to take on the three headed monster of Webber, Wallace and Dyess. Some of you have clearly not seen these guys play at a high level this year and more so now in these playoffs.
> 
> Ty Thomas may be the best big man in the series for Chicago but he still cannot defend any of the Piston bigs on the block. He may show some strong help side defense, high rising rebounds, fast break dunks, garbge putbacks but Ty, Ben and PJ have their work cut out for them this series. It is the biggest advantage Detroit has on offense and they will exploit it until the Bulls answer the challenge.


Really, I didn't see much from C-Webb or Sheed to see anything that would strike fear in the first round. Sheed doesn't play hard enough and neither does C-Webb. I think those two are overrated in this series in my opinion.

And all 4 games against Orl, the Pistons could've lost all of them.


----------



## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

jnrjr79 said:


> Sure, but it's a two-way street. Any knowledge of him they have is counteracted by his knowledge of them. It's a nonsensical argument.


It's not nonsensical, it's indeterminate. Wallace has more than average knowledge of the Pistons and they have more than average knowledge of him.

What we don't know is the extent to which that knowledge can be usefully employed by either side. I don't find any of the arguments either way very compelling. It's very possible, in my mind, that the Pistons know some of Wallace's tendencies. It's also pretty likely he knows some off theirs. But it's one of those things that's going to be hard to tell in practice for a fan watching on TV in any case.


----------



## McBulls (Apr 28, 2005)

CommonSense said:


> This is not the same Webber from his stint with the Sixers. That should be an area of concern; Webber is a quality defensive rebounder (huge hands, natural ability) and on offense Ben does not guard him well. Perhaps PJ would be the better option but that would leave Wallace on Wallace which will be interesting to see these two competitors playing at a high level when it is win or go home. It is a critical matchup issue for the Bulls to take on the three headed monster of Webber, Wallace and Dyess. Some of you have clearly not seen these guys play at a high level this year and more so now in these playoffs.
> 
> Ty Thomas may be the best big man in the series for Chicago but he still cannot defend any of the Piston bigs on the block. He may show some strong help side defense, high rising rebounds, fast break dunks, garbge putbacks but Ty, Ben and PJ have their work cut out for them this series. It is the biggest advantage Detroit has on offense and they will exploit it until the Bulls answer the challenge.


The only reason the Bulls may contemplate putting Wallace on Wallace is that it would be a waste of outstanding defensive talent to put him on Webber. PJ could do a fine job on Webber alone. The problem with putting Wallace on Wallace is that Rasheed spends a lot of his time on the perimeter. We'd rather keep Ben Wallace down low where he can stop penetration and get rebounds. 

The Bulls have several choices for defending Rasheed. Most likely they'll play Nocioni on him most of the time if he's healthy. Otherwise, Tyrus Thomas may get his chance.


----------



## Roscoe Sheed (Jun 19, 2006)

McBulls said:


> The only reason the Bulls may contemplate putting Wallace on Wallace is that it would be a waste of outstanding defensive talent to put him on Webber. PJ could do a fine job on Webber alone. The problem with putting Wallace on Wallace is that Rasheed spends a lot of his time on the perimeter. We'd rather keep Ben Wallace down low where he can stop penetration and get rebounds.
> 
> The Bulls have several choices for defending Rasheed. Most likely they'll play Nocioni on him most of the time if he's healthy. Otherwise, Tyrus Thomas may get his chance.


If they put Nocioni on Sheed, Sheed MUST punish him on the box. There is no way Nocioni could guard him in the box. However, Sheed loves his 3s, so he may just sit out there on the perimeter even if they do put a small guy on him.


----------



## TripleDouble (Jul 26, 2002)

Roscoe Sheed said:


> If they put Nocioni on Sheed, Sheed MUST punish him on the box. There is no way Nocioni could guard him in the box. However, Sheed loves his 3s, so he may just sit out there on the perimeter even if they do put a small guy on him.


The guy is a 15ppg career scorer. Let's not make him out to be Hakeem offensively. Sure he's talented, but he's a 32 year old player with a 15 PPG average so you pretty much know what you're going to get at this point and that's 15 PPG.


----------



## Roscoe Sheed (Jun 19, 2006)

TripleDouble said:


> The guy is a 15ppg career scorer. Let's not make him out to be Hakeem offensively. Sure he's talented, but he's a 32 year old player with a 15 PPG average so you pretty much know what you're going to get at this point and that's 15 PPG.


Look, all I'm saying is that Sheed can be very dangerous in the post. He has numerous moves and is very long. If they put a relatively small guy on Sheed, he should post every time or at least beat the front on the back door.


----------



## TripleDouble (Jul 26, 2002)

MikeDC said:


> A second thing that concerns me is if we collapse too much on Webber or whomever penetrates, the way we usually do, the Pistons, unlike the Heat, will make us pay. Webber and really Sheed too, are a couple of the best passing bigs in the league, and Billups has become very good at making difficult passes. What's worse, everyone on their team is a good bet to knock down an open shot. So we'll have to stay very disciplined against them, I think.


Don't overrate the Pistons shooters. They shot only 0.1 percent better on threes than the Heat did this season.


----------



## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

the chadster picking the pistons...in seven.




> _*Dominic (Tampa, FLA):* Who are you picking in the Pistons-Bulls series? _
> 
> * Chad Ford: (12:07 PM ET )* *Pistons in 7* though I have to say these teams are VERY evenly matched. Should be a great series. Bulls have youth and athleticism on their side. Pistons have experience and more options. Ben Wallace will be motivated ... can't wait for a great series.


chad chat


----------

