# If ya'll promise Tyrus BIG MISTAKE (merged, y'all)



## o.iatlhawksfan (Mar 3, 2006)

Tyrus Thomas= at best Stromile Swift, he can't shhot can't dribble has no basketball IQ, all he can do is leap, ya'll are making a big mistake, Aldridge is a way better fit. Fortuntly ya'll are a playoff team, so maybe no one will notice you have a bust sitting in the end of your bench. 

I predict that ya'll will of no use for Tyrus and ya'll trade him after his second season, don't worry he'll be traded more than once.


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## step (Sep 19, 2005)

*Re: If ya'll promise Tyrus BIG MISTAKE*



> he can't shhot can't dribble has no basketball IQ, all he can do is leap


Well considering he can't leap either, why would anyone bother then.


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## mr.ankle20 (Mar 7, 2004)

*Re: If ya'll promise Tyrus BIG MISTAKE*



o.iatlhawksfan said:


> Tyrus Thomas= at best Stromile Swift, he can't shhot can't dribble has no basketball IQ, all he can do is leap, ya'll are making a big mistake, Aldridge is a way better fit. Fortuntly ya'll are a playoff team, so maybe no one will notice you have a bust sitting in the end of your bench.
> 
> I predict that ya'll will of no use for Tyrus and ya'll trade him after his second season, don't worry he'll be traded more than once.



the samething could be said about the atlanta hawks if they draft shelden williams.At best the the guy is the next udonis haslem.


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## kulaz3000 (May 3, 2006)

*Re: If ya'll promise Tyrus BIG MISTAKE*



mr.ankle20 said:


> the samething could be said about the atlanta hawks if they draft shelden williams.At best the the guy is the next udonis haslem.


or how about stating that they need a point guard. and not another forward...


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## LegoHat (Jan 14, 2004)

*Re: If ya'll promise Tyrus BIG MISTAKE*



o.iatlhawksfan said:


> Tyrus Thomas= at best Stromile Swift, he can't shhot can't dribble has no basketball IQ, all he can do is leap, ya'll are making a big mistake, Aldridge is a way better fit. Fortuntly ya'll are a playoff team, so maybe no one will notice you have a bust sitting in the end of your bench.
> 
> I predict that ya'll will of no use for Tyrus and ya'll trade him after his second season, don't worry he'll be traded more than once.


That's a lot of ya'll's. 

I'm not too high on Thomas either, but I don't agree that we can't use him, he''ll find a place on this team if he is drafted, he just needs to get that whole "I'm a small forward" idea out of his head.


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## T.Shock (Feb 11, 2003)

*In Mock Draft III, Ford reports Tyrus has top 3 promise*

In his third mock draft, Chad Ford writes that Thomas pulled out of his workout with the Blazers (who pick at #4) and that Tyrus' agent told the Blazers that a team in the top 3 promised to take Tyrus. I think it's illogical to believe Charlotte promised him, and though I could see Colangelo going for him, I'm under the impression that Thomas has been promised by the Bulls. Also, Ford says Roy is Jordan's guy for the Bobcats at #3.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

*Re: In Mock Draft III, Ford reports Tyrus has top 3 promise*

I doubt the Bulls promised him anything. They probaly said "We promise you that you'll be in consideration for #2", and then Thomas ran out and then cancelled all his workouts for no reason at all, maybe he's trying to piss off teams so he falls to 16?


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

*Re: In Mock Draft III, Ford reports Tyrus has top 3 promise*

If this turns out to be true, I will be first in line to finally go to the Dark Side and join the Fire Pax club.

Yes, you heard it here first. Mr. Homer. Mr. Glass Half Full.

If the Bulls take Tyrus Thomas with the #2 pick of the 2006 NBA Draft, I will officially turn my back on John Paxson and call for his head as a GM.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: If ya'll promise Tyrus BIG MISTAKE*

How are you Hawks fans feeling about Josh Smith and Marvin Williams these days?

Physically, Thomas appears to be about as similar to those guys as anyone. Attitude wise, they're both known as "intense" players on the court, but guys who haven't necessarily developed a reputation as great students of working out and understanding the game.

I'm still pretty torn. I think he's a risky pick at #2. Smith was a stellar pick at 17 a couple years ago but wouldn't have been a good pick at #2. Great value where he went though. Williams seems to have been a mistake at #2 last year.

I see a whole lot of talk that Thomas has been "promised" (something I've always thought was nonsensical for a team to do, by the way), and the only obvious team to promise him is us. I guess it's not for certain but he looks like our guy. For me personally, I think he's 3rd to 5th on my list at the moment, but I still haven't reached any final conclusions.


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## SecretAgentGuy (Jul 15, 2003)

*Re: In Mock Draft III, Ford reports Tyrus has top 3 promise*

http://www.oregonlive.com/weblogs/b...ive_blazersbeat/archives/2006_06.html#1529433

According to this Art Sasse received word from Tyrus' agent that he was promised, thus the workout cancellation. Given the timing of things one scenario might be that Charlotte promised him and continued his workout with us to see if he can get the #2 slot. I still don't see Pax as the type to promise someone, especially someone that views himself as a SF.

Has Tyrus only worked out for the top 3 teams so far?


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

*Re: If ya'll promise Tyrus BIG MISTAKE*

Tyrus won't be a Bust...we've heard this stromile mumbojumbo before....swift wasn't as good offensively, defensively, off the ball, on the fastbreak or with his back to the basket...NEXT...go look at a few clips and peep how fluid his jumper is...his mechanics are very nice..


La Ridge or the Magician won't be bust either..

the top players in this draft are underrated


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## mr.ankle20 (Mar 7, 2004)

*Re: In Mock Draft III, Ford reports Tyrus has top 3 promise*



TomBoerwinkle#1 said:


> If this turns out to be true, I will be first in line to finally go to the Dark Side and join the Fire Pax club.
> 
> Yes, you heard it here first. Mr. Homer. Mr. Glass Half Full.
> 
> If the Bulls take Tyrus Thomas with the #2 pick of the 2006 NBA Draft, I will officially turn my back on John Paxson and call for his head as a GM.



why He might turn out to be a great player or a bust. I"m not a big thomas fan But Im not ready to make assumptions about him. I hope the bulls draft any player but roy


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## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

*Re: In Mock Draft III, Ford reports Tyrus has top 3 promise*



TomBoerwinkle#1 said:


> If this turns out to be true, I will be first in line to finally go to the Dark Side and join the Fire Pax club.
> 
> Yes, you heard it here first. Mr. Homer. Mr. Glass Half Full.
> 
> If the Bulls take Tyrus Thomas with the #2 pick of the 2006 NBA Draft, I will officially turn my back on John Paxson and call for his head as a GM.


Wouldn't that be a bit premature until you actually get to see how Thomas pans out?

I'm strongly against Roy. But I was strongly against Hinrich and Gordon as well. I've learned my lesson. 

If I initially disagree with Paxson, I'll say it. But I won't actually judge his decision until *much* further down the line. I've been way too wrong, and he's been way too right, way too many times for me to be so certain.


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## chifaninca (May 28, 2002)

*Re: In Mock Draft III, Ford reports Tyrus has top 3 promise*



TomBoerwinkle#1 said:


> If this turns out to be true, I will be first in line to finally go to the Dark Side and join the Fire Pax club.
> 
> Yes, you heard it here first. Mr. Homer. Mr. Glass Half Full.
> 
> If the Bulls take Tyrus Thomas with the #2 pick of the 2006 NBA Draft, I will officially turn my back on John Paxson and call for his head as a GM.


If this is true, Paxson better be sure. The one thing I thought we knew about Paxson was that he wasn't a risk taker. To me Thomas is the riskiest pick of the three big men. He has done nothing on one end of the floor sans half a season and most of that was him "playing in the system". Well, all people play "in a system". I won't root against, but I will be really interested to watch his progression.

Also, if this is the case, who are we gonna grab FA wise? None of the FA centers can score (except maybe Nene and we haven't seen a ton from him either).

To me it's much easier to find a defensive big man, than a big man who can score and defend. Hell, look at Chandler, Pryz, Nazr, Diop, Brown etc.....All are contributing on defense which requires little skill when you are that big. It's the offense that they are missing. That's my biggest fear with Thomas. He adds nothing ont he offensive end.


our offense with Thomas and CHandler on the floor (or Thomas and any of the FA big men) will continue to be playing 3 on 5 and mostly an outside shooting team. Outside shooting teams don't get to the line because it's easy to defend them. 

I'm not hoping he fails, just the opposite, I want whoever we draft to succeed, but thomas to me is insanity for a team that could play it safe (Take Aldridge - a big man who can score and defend enough to keep teams honest and give you an inside scoring threat). 

Maybe Pax is learning.

OR

Maybe Thomas really does possess the offensive game we've read about him proclaiming.

And TB...Remember, we still Nocioini to play PF.


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

Wilcox is another PF/C we should consider...offensively, he's pretty damn good...a better scorer than Nene

If we got him and NEne!? We'd have one of the biggest, strongest frontlines in the NBA


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## Charlotte_______ (May 18, 2003)

With all of the drama that is Tyrus Thomas, I don't see how his attitude helps us building chemistry. I think T.Shock got it right, Roy will be our pick. We have a knack for getting seasoned players(Okafor, B.Robinson, R.Felton, S.May) Roy seems like the most logical pick. Bobcats front office definetly knows next year will be they year of big men, so need to draft big this year.


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## remlover (Jan 22, 2004)

Let's not lose this thread come next season when Tyrus is playing. I can imagine a lot of people looking silly for their comments regarding TT. 

Even if the Bulls do not draft TT i see him having a great carreer. The last time this guy was playing in March/April he was playing like a stud, now all of the sudden with a few interviews and a tape measure on his body and we are all running scared from him. 

PaxSkiles has a vision for this team. They know what pieces will and will not fit. So i will be a good soldier and not question them....although i really don't want Roy @ 2 (rather we trade down at get him @ 4 or later).


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

Charlotte_______ said:


> With all of the drama that is Tyrus Thomas, I don't see how his attitude helps us building chemistry. I think T.Shock got it right, Roy will be our pick. We have a knack for getting seasoned players(Okafor, B.Robinson, R.Felton, S.May) Roy seems like the most logical pick. Bobcats front office definetly knows next year will be they year of big men, so need to draft big this year.


Not to mention that with Gerald Wallace in the fold, the Cats already have covered a lot of what Thomas would bring.


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## TripleDouble (Jul 26, 2002)

ScottMay said:


> Not to mention that with Gerald Wallace in the fold, the Cats already have covered a lot of what Thomas would bring.


And Rudy Gay too. Roy is perfect for them.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

*Re: In Mock Draft III, Ford reports Tyrus has top 3 promise*



TomBoerwinkle#1 said:


> If this turns out to be true, I will be first in line to finally go to the Dark Side and join the Fire Pax club.
> 
> Yes, you heard it here first. Mr. Homer. Mr. Glass Half Full.
> 
> If the Bulls take Tyrus Thomas with the #2 pick of the 2006 NBA Draft, I will officially turn my back on John Paxson and call for his head as a GM.


Thats the attitude.

Fire Paxson! Fire Skiles! The Season is a wash!


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

*Re: In Mock Draft III, Ford reports Tyrus has top 3 promise*



Ron Cey said:


> Wouldn't that be a bit premature until you actually get to see how Thomas pans out?
> 
> I'm strongly against Roy. But I was strongly against Hinrich and Gordon as well. I've learned my lesson.
> 
> If I initially disagree with Paxson, I'll say it. But I won't actually judge his decision until *much* further down the line. I've been way too wrong, and he's been way too right, way too many times for me to be so certain.


There is always room for Pax to prove me wrong. 

Also, I have no doubt that Thomas will NOT be a bust.

However, I also seriously doubt he will ever play more than spot minutes at 4. We DO NOT need another 3, unless we move Deng or Noc, both of whom I am really fond of.



chifaninca said:


> If this is true, Paxson better be sure. The one thing I thought we knew about Paxson was that he wasn't a risk taker. To me Thomas is the riskiest pick of the three big men. He has done nothing on one end of the floor sans half a season and most of that was him "playing in the system". Well, all people play "in a system". I won't root against, but I will be really interested to watch his progression.
> 
> Also, if this is the case, who are we gonna grab FA wise? None of the FA centers can score (except maybe Nene and we haven't seen a ton from him either).
> 
> ...


I agree with most of your post.

I think Noc is a 3 who can play minutes at 4 -- more minutes at 4 than TT can, for certain. However, I don't want to rely on him as our full time starting PF.




On the other hand, Sloth endorsed my post, which to me is the kiss of death for any opinion. So I am probably a million miles off base with my rare instance of PaxHate.


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## Thorgal (Feb 1, 2003)

Somehow I'm not very worried about all this stuff going on with all that Tyrus's cancelations.

He probably got a promise, but the more I think about this, more it's obvious to me that either he got that promise from Toronto (or Charlotte) or Pax already has a deal on the table (with Phoenix or more likely, Indiana).

I strongly do believe that Tyrus is plain simple not Pax's guy. He near 100% definition of a project and Pax is NOT going to draft a project (he doesn't draft them even in second round for a record).

We will be fine, I believe in Pax :cheers:


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

as long as it ain't roy..

i'm fine


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

The ROY said:


> as long as it ain't roy..
> 
> i'm fine


Apparently one of the two of us will be disappointed on draft day.


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

TomBoerwinkle#1 said:


> Apparently one of the two of us will be disappointed on draft day.


lol

i don't have a problem with roy..i think he's good



> The problem for Charlotte is that it’s not a given that their other invites will show up either. Tyrus Thomas is also rumored to have pulled out of the workout, as he did yesterday with the Portland Trailblazers. Many feel that a deal is already in place for a team to trade for the Bulls’ #2 pick, and that Thomas has been informed that he’ll be the one taken there. Brandon Roy is also rumored to be pulling out of the workout on Thursday, although this makes quite a bit less sense.


From Draftexpress...so we're trading Thomas!?


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## jbulls (Aug 31, 2005)

*Re: In Mock Draft III, Ford reports Tyrus has top 3 promise*



TomBoerwinkle#1 said:


> If this turns out to be true, I will be first in line to finally go to the Dark Side and join the Fire Pax club.
> 
> Yes, you heard it here first. Mr. Homer. Mr. Glass Half Full.
> 
> If the Bulls take Tyrus Thomas with the #2 pick of the 2006 NBA Draft, I will officially turn my back on John Paxson and call for his head as a GM.



TB, really? You will?

I think Paxson's earned the benefit of the doubt as a talent evaluator. The idea that any of us know in any kind of concrete fashion who's going to thrive and who's going to bust in the NBA is silly. I may not like LaMarcus Aldridge but I'm not willing to make any iron clad statements about his pro prospects. Folks, the draft is an inexact science. We all have hunches, but we don't know how these guys are going to work out. Let's reserve our judgement for the regular season.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

The ROY said:


> lol
> 
> From Draftexpress...so we're trading Thomas!?


see now? THAT is the situation where Pax can draft TT and I can remain a Pax supporter.


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

aren't thomas' agents total neophytes? like this is their first client? i thought i read that someplace.

not a good idea (unless, of course, it's by design) to blare the news of a promise. (EDIT: just read the draft express bit, now it's a possible trade?? i am becoming dizzy. ok, dizzier!!)

this just doesn't seem like something pax would do - considering when this statement was made, the bulls hadn't even finished conducting top prospect workouts.

it will be verrrry interesting to see, now that the major workouts are done, who, if anybody, is asked to return to the berto for an additional look-see.

you'd think thomas would be high on the list of "we need to take another look" - i mean considering his upset tummy the other day.

i just don't trust this kids agents. by blabbing this, they may have, repeat "may have" just shot themselves in the foot.




_that said, if pax does indeed take tyrus, it's because he sees him fitting the vision. if that's the case, i will give pax the benefit of the doubt even if TT "wasn't my guy"_


*here's the real thing that has my head SPINNING (draft fever! catch it!)...i wonder if skiles an pax are on the same page in terms of their own top guy.*

seems skiles would want Roy (another guard!) and Pax might, with all the talk of "we need to get athletic", would advocate a guy like TT, even if he may not be entirely ready to contribute right away.

oh the theories. only eight days till we find out! do we think skiles and pax are on the same page right now??


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

*Re: In Mock Draft III, Ford reports Tyrus has top 3 promise*



jbulls said:


> TB, really? You will?
> 
> I think Paxson's earned the benefit of the doubt as a talent evaluator. The idea that any of us know in any kind of concrete fashion who's going to thrive and who's going to bust in the NBA is silly. I may not like LaMarcus Aldridge but I'm not willing to make any iron clad statements about his pro prospects. Folks, the draft is an inexact science. We all have hunches, but we don't know how these guys are going to work out. Let's reserve our judgement for the regular season.



Lets just say that I have enough doubts about Thomas helping the Bulls, which combined with passing on players I believe would help the Bulls, would make Pax guilty in my eyes until proven innocent.


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

How bout the Bulls covet Thomas and wanted him all along? Or just aren't impressed with the other players?

If they're willing to tell the kid to cancel his other workouts, obviously they know alot more about his overall game and are impressed.


That does happen to ya know.


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## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

*Re: In Mock Draft III, Ford reports Tyrus has top 3 promise*



TomBoerwinkle#1 said:


> Lets just say that I have enough doubts about Thomas helping the Bulls, which combined with passing on players I believe would help the Bulls, *would make Pax guilty in my eyes until proven innocent.*


Oh my god, Tom. You really are slipping to the dark side! 

"Your posts betray you, Tom. I feel the logic in you, the conflict. You couldn't bring yourself to join the "Fire Pax Club" before and I don't believe you'll join it now."


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

mizenkay said:


> aren't thomas' agents total neophytes? like this is their first client? i thought i read that someplace.
> 
> not a good idea (unless, of course, it's by design) to blare the news of a promise. (EDIT: just read the draft express bit, now it's a possible trade?? i am becoming dizzy. ok, dizzier!!)
> 
> ...



Hey Miz, maybe Pax worked out a deal with another team like Indiana or Phx that wants Thomas so there was no need to bring him in for another workout from the Bulls perspective? Personally I think Pax is drafting him but nothing would surprise me at this point.


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## jbulls (Aug 31, 2005)

*Re: In Mock Draft III, Ford reports Tyrus has top 3 promise*



TomBoerwinkle#1 said:


> Lets just say that I have enough doubts about Thomas helping the Bulls, which combined with passing on players I believe would help the Bulls, would make Pax guilty in my eyes until proven innocent.


I would argue that Kirk Hinrich, Luol Deng, Ben Gordon and Chris Duhon make Paxson innocent until proven guilty. I don't see how you can judge a guy who has a fantastic draft record before seeing his pick play in the league. I'm not going to harshly judge our pick before I see him play in an NBA game, and I don't think anybody else should either.


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## narek (Jul 29, 2005)

mizenkay said:


> aren't thomas' agents total neophytes? like this is their first client? i thought i read that someplace.


They're Randy Livingston's agents so they can't be neophytes but I don't know who else they handle.

They may be convinced Pax is taking him, but to not let him work out for other teams is just bad business on their part. Wasn't it Gerald Greene's agents who thought he'd be taken early and therefore didn't have him work out for other teams and he dropped way low? And it's the not working out for other teams that contributed to his drop. 

They're whole pulling out of workouts could be a big smokescreen on their part, too, hiding the fact that Thomas may not be ready to be a top pick. Or they could just not like Portland.


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

narek said:


> They're Randy Livingston's agents so they can't be neophytes but I don't know who else they handle.
> 
> They may be convinced Pax is taking him, but to not let him work out for other teams is just bad business on their part. Wasn't it Gerald Greene's agents who thought he'd be taken early and therefore didn't have him work out for other teams and he dropped way low? And it's the not working out for other teams that contributed to his drop.
> 
> They're whole pulling out of workouts could be a big smokescreen on their part, too, hiding the fact that Thomas may not be ready to be a top pick. Or they could just not like Portland.


oh, that's right, i just get the impression they are really new at this.

let's also not forget that since the ncaa tourney, tyrus thomas has been ultra-high on pax's radar.

i'm just trying to get my head wrapped around the whole idea of TT.


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## DengNabbit (Feb 23, 2005)

*Re: In Mock Draft III, Ford reports Tyrus has top 3 promise*



sloth said:


> I doubt the Bulls promised him anything. They probaly said "We promise you that you'll be in consideration for #2", and then Thomas ran out and then cancelled all his workouts for no reason at all, maybe he's trying to piss off teams so he falls to 16?



wait what? this is a joke right?


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## jbulls (Aug 31, 2005)

mizenkay said:


> oh, that's right, i just get the impression they are really new at this.
> 
> let's also not forget that since the ncaa tourney, tyrus thomas has been ultra-high on pax's radar.
> 
> i'm just trying to get my head wrapped around the whole idea of TT.


They're certainly behaving as if they're new at it.

I hadn't noticed that they were also Livingston's agents (thanks for the heads up, narek). I already knew we had to take Livinston's pro-Thomas comments with a grain of salt, now I'm even more wary of them...


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

*Re: In Mock Draft III, Ford reports Tyrus has top 3 promise*



Ron Cey said:


> Oh my god, Tom. You really are slipping to the dark side!
> 
> "Your posts betray you, Tom. I feel the logic in you, the conflict. You couldn't bring yourself to join the "Fire Pax Club" before and I don't believe you'll join it now."



Something's happening. I'm not the Administrator I should be. I want more. And I know I shouldn't.


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## PC Load Letter (Jun 29, 2002)

*Re: In Mock Draft III, Ford reports Tyrus has top 3 promise*



TomBoerwinkle#1 said:


> If this turns out to be true, I will be first in line to finally go to the Dark Side and join the Fire Pax club.
> 
> Yes, you heard it here first. Mr. Homer. Mr. Glass Half Full.
> 
> If the Bulls take Tyrus Thomas with the #2 pick of the 2006 NBA Draft, I will officially turn my back on John Paxson and call for his head as a GM.


What are you, 8? "If I can't get my way, I'm taking my ball and going home!"

Do you not rememeber how silly I seemed for disliking Deng so much? Now, he's become my favorite player on the team and the last guy I'd trade. He proved me wrong.

Give it a chance, at least. You don't want something to happen like, say, video of you being re-posted over and over again years later because of how silly you acted at the time. Trust me...stay calm and give it a chance!


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## Vintage (Nov 8, 2002)

Tom, if we draft Thomas and he ends up being a 20/10 player for us, you still going to join the Fire Pax Mantra....


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## DengNabbit (Feb 23, 2005)

*Re: In Mock Draft III, Ford reports Tyrus has top 3 promise*



TomBoerwinkle#1 said:


> If this turns out to be true, I will be first in line to finally go to the Dark Side and join the Fire Pax club.
> 
> Yes, you heard it here first. Mr. Homer. Mr. Glass Half Full.
> 
> If the Bulls take Tyrus Thomas with the #2 pick of the 2006 NBA Draft, I will officially turn my back on John Paxson and call for his head as a GM.



for a draft like this one, isnt that a little excessive. no matter what people say about Roy being ready for the pros, and this or that......it's still an absolutely wide open draft. Thomas is a all-or-nothing pick, but i dont think there's anyone else in this draft that is going to make Pax into the guy who drafted Bowie.


especially when this kid, for all his inexperience, has actually won big college basketball games, in a prominent role. he's not my first choice either, but i'm not going to be a Pax hater based on this. all the other guys have huge question marks.


Aldridge: doesnt have NBA strength, not tough
Roy: not overly impressive in any one category
Bargnani: all perimeter game, could have problems in nearly every other facet of the NBA game

and the SFs are SFs.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

Relax guys! I've already said Pax could prove me wrong. If TT ends up being our stud, I'll eat crow, admit I was mistaken and withdraw my name from the Fire Pax club.

But for now, Thomas as the #2 pick for the Bulls is such a head-spinningly wrong move, in my own little humble perspective in this tiny little corner of the internet, my faith will be shaken until such time as I am shown to have been off base.

God willing, it won't come to that, and TT will not, rumors to the contrary, be our pick, or if he is, he will be part of an awesome trade.


Just DON'T DO IT, Pax! (Unless it is part of that Boston deal we've been talking about, or something like that).


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## DengNabbit (Feb 23, 2005)

ah ok, fair nuff


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

The ROY said:


> How bout the Bulls covet Thomas and wanted him all along? Or just aren't impressed with the other players?
> 
> If they're willing to tell the kid to cancel his other workouts, obviously they know alot more about his overall game and are impressed.
> 
> ...


I'm not sure of the chronology, but did news of this "promise" leak before the Morrison/Gay workout? That would be a little strange, I think.


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

Darius Miles Davis said:


> I'm not sure of the chronology, but did news of this "promise" leak before the Morrison/Gay workout? That would be a little strange, I think.


after their workout


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

Darius Miles Davis said:


> I'm not sure of the chronology, but did news of this "promise" leak before the Morrison/Gay workout? That would be a little strange, I think.


EDIT: see my post below for the timing of the rumor.


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

The ROY said:


> after their workout


it actually leaked around the same time. was originally posted at 10am Pacific time.

http://ian1080.blogspot.com/2006/06/breaking-news.html


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## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

TomBoerwinkle#1 said:


> Relax guys! I've already said Pax could prove me wrong. If TT ends up being our stud, I'll eat crow, admit I was mistaken *and withdraw my name from the Fire Pax club.*


Alas, our intervention has failed! My worldview has been shaken.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

Ron Cey said:


> Alas, our intervention has failed! My worldview has been shaken.


No no! My name isn't in the club YET! Purely a hypothetical.

I still have faith that Pax will _not_ draft Thomas in the absence of a trade scenario.


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## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

TomBoerwinkle#1 said:


> No no! My name isn't in the club YET! Purely a hypothetical.
> 
> I still have faith that Pax will _not_ draft Thomas in the absence of a trade scenario.


Tom, you're nothing to me now. You're not a poster, you're not a friend. I don't want to know you or what you do. I don't want to see you on the board, I don't want you near my PM box. When you post about Paxson, I want to know a day in advance, so I won't be there. You understand?


----------



## Vintage (Nov 8, 2002)

In my humble prespective, I believe Paxson to be a better judge of talent than me.

But I still authorize the right for me to complain about the pick if I wish too.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

Vintage said:


> In my humble prespective, I believe Paxson to be a better judge of talent than me.



I think maybe theres only a select group, like 20 to 30, that could even be considered in a conversation about being his equal.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

Ron Cey said:


> Tom, you're nothing to me now. You're not a poster, you're not a friend. I don't want to know you or what you do. I don't want to see you on the board, I don't want you near my PM box. When you post about Paxson, I want to know a day in advance, so I won't be there. You understand?


 :starwars:









Penguin, you do not yet realize your importance. You have only begun to discover your power. Join me, and I will complete your training. With our combined strength, we can end the destructive conflict on the Bulls board and bring order to Basketballboards.net. 

Ron, *I* am your father.


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## BULLS23 (Apr 13, 2003)

I too would be disappointed if we took TT with the #2 . . . Not the end of the world by any stretch, but not the move that in my opinion (known to be wrong at times) would help the Bulls the most. Also, I would humbly eat crow if my feeling is found to be wrong. I'd be relived that the Bulls are back to being a perennial contender regardless of who is doing the heavy lifting.


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## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

*Re: If ya'll promise Tyrus BIG MISTAKE*



MikeDC said:


> How are you Hawks fans feeling about Josh Smith and Marvin Williams these days?


We aren't going to trade them for Tyson Chandler if that's what you're getting at. :clown:


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

OK, I'm not going to jump off a cliff if it's Thomas.

How does he fit in? Well, he fits in the way Deng and Noc do. Both of those guys, as I wrote yesterday, I think are really "forwards". They're not truly SFs and they're not truly PFs. We've got two forward spots and we can field each of those guys pretty big minutes. We get another freakishly athletic player.

We do what it takes to trade up and get Ronnie Brewer. Maybe that ends up meaning we part with Duhon. I'd probably do it without thinking twice. and I like Duhon.

If KneeKnee checks out ok, we get another freakishly athletic player who's 260lbs in free agency.

1- Hinrich 36, Gordon 12
2- Gordon 24, Brewer 24
3- Deng 16, Nocioni 12, Thomas 16
4- Nocioni 16, Deng 16, Thomas 16
5- Nene 24, Chandler 24

Pax has consistently said we need more athleticism and we need star power. None of these draft picks look like certain stars to me, but we'd pretty clearly get the two most athletic prospects in the draft if we did this.


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## Plush4life (May 26, 2006)

> If the Bulls take Tyrus Thomas with the #2 pick of the 2006 NBA Draft, I will officially turn my back on John Paxson and call for his head as a GM.



you took the words right out of my hands


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

Just continuing to hear how the media has pretty much come down to the conclusion that Tyrus Thomas is going to be a bull makes my stomach churn. If Pax has allready made up his mind on taking an undersived PF/ Underskilled SF without thinking of possibly taking some of the high reward guys in Morrison, Gay, Bargs, Carney etc, I to will give up on Pax.


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## giusd (Apr 17, 2003)

I dont what to be passing out the kool-aid or anything but doesnt espninsider have Thomas ranked as the number one player in the draft? Look i am no expert but it seems line a lot of draft experts have thomas as the best forward in the draft and dont we need a power foward. 

I know he is only 6'8" 1/4 but he has a 7'3" reach that makes him just a touch bigger than Brand with a couple of more inches in reach and his much more athletic.

Cool me uninformed but dont we want to take thomas?

david


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

giusd said:


> I dont what to be passing out the kool-aid or anything but doesnt espninsider have Thomas ranked as the number one player in the draft? Look i am no expert but it seems line a lot of draft experts have thomas as the best forward in the draft and dont we need a power foward.
> 
> I know he is only 6'8" 1/4 but he has a 7'3" reach that makes him just a touch bigger than Brand with a couple of more inches in reach and his much more athletic.
> 
> ...


Most of those same scouts never even heard about Thomas untill the NCAA tournament, Same thing with Hoakim Noah. Ive seen Thomas play and nothing about him has ever made me say "Wow". Also, Morrison, Gay and Roy have had much better workouts then Thomas who refuses to play against some of the other top talents in the draft and has pretty much cut all his workouts short, sounds to me like Thomas's agent has told Tyrus that his NCAA tournament showing has made him a lock to be top 3 so dont work yourself out of it during workouts.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

thebizkit69u said:


> Most of those same scouts never even heard about Thomas untill the NCAA tournament, Same thing with Hoakim Noah. Ive seen Thomas play and nothing about him has ever made me say "Wow". Also, Morrison, Gay and Roy have had much better workouts then Thomas who refuses to play against some of the other top talents in the draft and has pretty much cut all his workouts short, sounds to me like Thomas's agent has told Tyrus that his NCAA tournament showing has made him a lock to be top 3 so dont work yourself out of it during workouts.



Most of those scouts have seen Thomas play since he was in HS. Noah too.


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## southpark (Jul 5, 2003)

would Pax be crafty enough that he tells TT and his agent they will take him at 2 and then bend him over by actually not? Hmm....


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## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

southpark said:


> would Pax be crafty enough that he tells TT and his agent they will take him at 2 and then bend him over by actually not? Hmm....


Whats "crafty" about that? Smokescreens are one thing.

That would be unethical.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

ace20004u said:


> Most of those scouts have seen Thomas play since he was in HS. Noah too.


Alot of people scouted Tyson Chandler in high school and said he was the next KG. I just go with what I see with my own eyes, I am not calling Tyrus a bust but there is nothing about him that will make the Bulls that much better.


----------



## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

an interesting take on "promises" from sports-law blog...

http://sports-law.blogspot.com/2006/06/legality-of-oral-promises-by-nba-gms.html




> But what happens when a promise isn't kept? And has that ever happened?
> 
> First off, I'm unaware of an instance where an oral promise to a potential draft pick was broken, although in a recent interview with the Portland Oregonian, Portland Trail Blazers President Steve Patterson said, "There can be promises that just don't work out to be so guaranteed." I'm not sure whether Patterson is alluding to broken promises in the past or the potential for broken promises (he was discussing Tyrus Thomas), but other than his statement, everything I've read suggests that teams do, in fact, fulfill their draft promises. However, if you know otherwise, please contact me--I would appreciate it.


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## T.Shock (Feb 11, 2003)

Andy Katz mentioned in his chat today that a lot of buzz seems to be around the "promise" to Tyrus being made by another team trading up for the #2.


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

T.Shock said:


> Andy Katz mentioned in his chat today that a lot of buzz seems to be around the "promise" to Tyrus being made by another team trading up for the #2.


Hmm...interesting..

I got a feeling something big is gonna happen...


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## SecretAgentGuy (Jul 15, 2003)

But what teams has Thomas worked out for?!?! Surely a team wouldn't trade up to draft him without first working him out, right?


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

MikeDC said:


> Pax has consistently said we need more athleticism and we need star power. None of these draft picks look like certain stars to me, but we'd pretty clearly get the two most athletic prospects in the draft if we did this.


Right, that's why TT and Brewer would be a solid draft, IMO.

The Bulls don't need plain 'ol height and size. We had height with Luke and size with Sweets. Blah. Lumps of meat won’t do it.

The Bulls need attack the basket, over the rim athleticism to add to our jibby jib jib. TT is already far more comfortable with the ball than Chandler is... you can see that from his college games.

I'd be more comfortable with TT if he was a couple inches taller, but in the absence of a guy jumping off the draft board at me, which has not happened yet, I'm cool with drafting Thomas, getting an athletic, take it to the hole SG at #16, and going after Knee Knee/Przy/Gooden. If TT is a warrior, he’ll put on size in the next couple years.

I would be even more happy with Pax though if he made a trade for an established star using our pick.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

This is in the latest Chad Ford mock draft....



> Rumors of a possible trade with the Lakers have also complicated things. If the Lakers get the No. 2 pick, Roy would be their guy.


Lakers? 

Why would they want Roy so badly?

If we land Odom for the #2... wow... nice deal.


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

I can't say I'd be extremely happy if we got Odom. But he will give The Bulls atleast 17 ppg & 9 rpg.

I think Chandler has to be involved for that trade to take place. He HAS to be involved.

That way we'd have money still to grab a big in FA & we'd still have the #16 pick to get a big guard or a Center.

Imagine

C Nene (or Wallace)
F Odom
F Deng / Nocioni
G Gordon
G Hinrich

Yeah, we'd definintely be a 2nd round team...possibly more


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

kukoc4ever said:


> This is in the latest Chad Ford mock draft....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


To get rid of a big contract and to get a player who can settle with being a second or third option to Kobe.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

thebizkit69u said:


> To get rid of a big contract and to get a player who can settle with being a second or third option to Kobe.



Yah I guess... but unless that move is combined with another move the Lakers would just get smaller and crummier.

Does Odom mind being 2nd banana? I never heard much complaining out of him.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

kukoc4ever said:


> Yah I guess... but unless that move is combined with another move the Lakers would just get smaller and crummier.
> 
> Does Odom mind being 2nd banana? I never heard much complaining out of him.


 Its a strange move, Roy and Odom are almost the same kind of player. Both of them are do it all well but not great players just stuck in different bodies. Odom is a solid player, but maybe Odom behind the doors just cant stand Mr Bryant.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

I dont know if this has been talked about or not, but just reading this makes me want to slap this kid.
http://www.draftexpress.com/viewarticle.php?a=1336


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

thebizkit69u said:


> I dont know if this has been talked about or not, but just reading this makes me want to slap this kid.
> http://www.draftexpress.com/viewarticle.php?a=1336


only to get beat down by him? why

i'd probably diss draftexpress too

but true, the article wasn't a good look for him


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

I could see Chandler + 2 to for Odom & #26...

then we'd just grab Pryzbilla in FA...more blocks than chandler and about the same numbers wise...

C Pryzbilla
F Odom
F Deng / Nocioni
G Gordon
G Hinrich


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

The ROY said:


> only to get beat down by him? why
> 
> i'd probably diss draftexpress too
> 
> but true, the article wasn't a good look for him


LoL Id like to slap him, but I would not. 

If your so confident in your abilities and where your going to go in the draft, why care about what some website thinks of you?


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

thebizkit69u said:


> LoL Id like to slap him, but I would not.
> 
> If your so confident in your abilities and where your going to go in the draft, why care about what some website thinks of you?


I agree!

problem is, that same website gave him a HELL of a profile..they made him sound like the next Amare while other profiles for players like Bargnani aren't very appealing...


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## Showtyme (Jun 24, 2002)

I considered this in a different thread, but perhaps the rawness of Tyrus Thomas would be beneficial. As rlucas often likes to proclaim, we DO need a freak, and Tyrus is definitely a freak. I don't know what his injury background is, but if he can be a strong, athletic player that plays way above the rim on both ends of the floor, I can't imagine him not helping our team a lot.

We don't have a single great athlete on the team, outside of Tyson Chandler, who can't manage to stay on the floor for whatever reason. Hinrich is a strong point guard with great change of speed; Gordon is acrobatic, able to get off a decent shot in a lot of traffic; Nocioni plays with a ton of hustle and energy; Deng has great long strides and really long extension to finish in the open court. But none of those guys is a FREAK, a guy that will just play the sloppy clean-up points around the rim.

Tyrus Thomas is overvalued, but consider this like you would free agency. Teams overpay all the time for free agents, simply because the market overvalues them. Tyrus Thomas is somewhat overrated in this draft, I agree, and it's not great to take him at #2, but that's overpaying for a talent that is NOT so useless on our team.

He could be a 9 and 10 player with 1.5 blocks and 1 steal. Not terrific at #2 overall, but it's what this team needs and that's why it's not a terrible idea to take him.

With that in mind, I hope that Paxson can look at things like basketball IQ, durability, defensive intensity, coachability... things that aren't necessarily transparent on the NCAA level. If Tyrus has high potential in these areas, taking him #2 wouldn't be taking the 2nd best player in the draft but perhaps the best option for the Bulls, even if it's overpaying.

I like LaMarcus and Bargnani more (although my Bargnani opinion is widely unsubstantiated), simply because they seem to fit in with the team philosophy more, but taking Tyrus wouldn't be so terrible.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

Ugh I hope Charlotte gave Tyrus Thomas the so called "Promise". I would be sick to my stomach if the Bulls are set on taking this guy.


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## kulaz3000 (May 3, 2006)

thebizkit69u said:


> Ugh I hope Charlotte gave Tyrus Thomas the so called "Promise". I would be sick to my stomach if the Bulls are set on taking this guy.


thats why im glad he another work out with the bulls.. proves a little uncertainty from the perspective of the bulls or thomas agent. i don't think the promise was from the bulls. seems like it was from charlotte.


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

kulaz3000 said:


> thats why im glad he another work out with the bulls.. proves a little uncertainty from the perspective of the bulls or thomas agent. i don't think the promise was from the bulls. seems like it was from charlotte.


Ford in Insider says Jordan wants Roy and are only bringing Alridge & Thomas in as backup plans (incase Bulls draft Roy)...Jordan also prefers Thomas over Aldridge


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

kulaz3000 said:


> thats why im glad he another work out with the bulls.. proves a little uncertainty from the perspective of the bulls or thomas agent. i don't think the promise was from the bulls. seems like it was from charlotte.


It just doesnt seem like Jordan in his first year back as the Boss would all of a sudden give a guy the "Promise" over guys with more talent like Gay and Morrison. This smells like Pax playing it safe.


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## kulaz3000 (May 3, 2006)

The ROY said:


> Ford in Insider says Jordan wants Roy and are only bringing Alridge & Thomas in as backup plans...


Is this the same Chad ford that once said Milicic is the real deal? and was a can't miss player.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

The ROY said:


> Ford in Insider says Jordan wants Roy and are only bringing Alridge & Thomas in as backup plans...


No way Toronto makes Tyrus the #1 pick.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO I pray that this is just a smoke screen from Thomas's camp to avoid Portlant at all costs. I cant imagine Pax being dumb enough to say "kid i promise we will draft you #2." just for the guys agent to blurp it all out to the public.


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## kulaz3000 (May 3, 2006)

thebizkit69u said:


> No way Toronto makes Tyrus the #1 pick.
> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO I pray that this is just a smoke screen from Thomas's camp to avoid Portlant at all costs. I cant imagine Pax being dumb enough to say "kid i promise we will draft you #2." just for the guys agent to blurp it all out to the public.


the most likely case is noone promised him to be picked at any of the three picks... its just his agent trying to jockey for the best position for thomas.


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

kulaz3000 said:


> Is this the same Chad ford that once said Milicic is the real deal? and was a can't miss player.


Well..

Didn't we just find out Milicic is the real deal? Him and Howard are about to be on of the most dominating duo's in a long time


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## kulaz3000 (May 3, 2006)

The ROY said:


> Well..
> 
> Didn't we just find out Milicic is the real deal? Him and Howard are about to be on of the most dominating duo's in a long time


well i wouldn't go as far as saying his the "real deal". But if indeed he does fullfill his potential Milcic and Howard sure would be a dominate force in the paint for them.


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

In about 20 min per game..he averaged 3blks and 12pts...not even familiar with the team or players

and this is a player out of shape, barely playing in 2 years...

they will MURDER the east for the next 10 years


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## kulaz3000 (May 3, 2006)

The ROY said:


> In about 20 min per game..he averaged 3blks and 12pts...not even familiar with the team or players
> 
> and this is a player out of shape, barely playing in 2 years...
> 
> they will MURDER the east for the next 10 years


for the bulls sake lets hope not. im glad they still have alot of missing gaps to fill. so i don't see them being a threat to the bulls quite yet. i hope they don't draft Brewer or one of those gaps for them will be filled. ill be devasted.


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

kulaz3000 said:


> for the bulls sake lets hope not. im glad they still have alot of missing gaps to fill. so i don't see them being a threat to the bulls quite yet. i hope they don't draft Brewer or one of those gaps for them will be filled. ill be devasted.


They're definintely gonna be a threat to us until we get some better than average big's...

Nelson's looking like a star playing with those two....

If they get Carney or Brewer...geezzzzzzzzz

But sounds like they're trying to move up and the Houston trade is sounding like a done deal....said their gm covets gay but I don't think he'll be availible at 8.


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## chifaninca (May 28, 2002)

Odom Plus loss of cap space is not enough for the #2. Give me odom and bynum + 26 for the #2 and Sweetney and you have a deal.

At #26you go way off the charts or you trade it for a future first next year.

At 16 you go (Brewer, Carney or Sefalosha - whoever falls to 16).


PG - Hinrich, Duhon
SG - Gordon, Sefalosha
SF - Deng, Nocioni
PF - Odom, Chandler
C - Pryz (though I wish Nene), Bynum


Honestly, that's a damn good team. 


#26 - we could take Paul Davis - Just to see Rlucas vomit

or James White to see if he can really harness the athleticism.


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

Shinky (REAL GM poster) said this :



> Terry Boers on the Score today, said that his "peeps" have confirmed to him that Tyrus Thomas is indeed the Bulls pick.
> 
> Terry Boers is a former beat writer and I trust what he say's.


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## TripleDouble (Jul 26, 2002)

The ROY said:


> Shinky (REAL GM poster) said this :


Same board also reported that sportsnight said Tyrus was back today for a second workout.


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## kulaz3000 (May 3, 2006)

God help us.... we don't need a thin undersized power forward. No matter how high he can jump or how long his arms are. He won't have the leverge to box out or maintain position against the bigger stronger players. I can see him being very foul prone..

I just hope this means that Paxson is confident he'll get some bigs through free agency by the likes of Nene or Wilcox who are actually big bodies so they can bring Thomas off the bench as a spark plug against smaller teams.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

The ROY said:


> Shinky (REAL GM poster) said this :


Well I hope your Happy Roy, I will consider Tyrus Thomas a totall bust if he doesnt come close to Charlie V stats. 

Iam still keeping my fingers crossed that we skip on Tyrus Swift.. I mean Tyrus Thomas.


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

thebizkit69u said:


> Well I hope your Happy Roy, I will consider Tyrus Thomas a totall bust if he doesnt come close to Charlie V stats.
> 
> Iam still keeping my fingers crossed that we skip on Tyrus Swift.. I mean Tyrus Thomas.


I want any of the big 3...

right now, Bargnani.....

I'm not say, happy...but we'll get a BIG with potential..that's what matters most to me


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## TripleDouble (Jul 26, 2002)

Skiles (or Paxson) has pointed out how the Bulls missed having a guy who could catch passes around the basket and finish strong. Tyrus certainly can do that.


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

kulaz3000 said:


> God help us.... we don't need a thin undersized power forward. No matter how high he can jump or how long his arms are. He won't have the leverge to box out or maintain position against the bigger stronger players. I can see him being very foul prone..
> 
> I just hope this means that Paxson is confident he'll get some bigs through free agency by the likes of Nene or Wilcox who are actually big bodies so they can bring Thomas off the bench as a spark plug against smaller teams.


He did fine guarding Centers alot bigger than him in college....

I don't think Paxson would draft a player that high he didn't think was special in some way....

He has to be CAPABLE if he's coveted...

Barkley played alot BIGGER than 6"5-6"6...Iverson playes ALOT bigger than 6"0....not comparing him to either of those guys but you get where I'm going with this

Wallace is 6"8 IN SHOES....I wouldn't worry to much about it if Paxsno isn't..


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

The ROY said:


> I want any of the big 3...
> 
> right now, Bargnani.....
> 
> I'm not say, happy...but we'll get a BIG with potential..that's what matters most to me


How is a guy who is barely 6'8 and barely 218 pounds considered a big?


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

thebizkit69u said:


> How is a guy who is barely 6'8 and barely 218 pounds considered a big?


Since he's been playing PF


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## kulaz3000 (May 3, 2006)

The ROY said:


> He did fine guarding Centers alot bigger than him in college....
> 
> I don't think Paxson would draft a player that high he didn't think was special in some way....
> 
> ...


I agree. some players play bigger than their size. Oakley. Barkely. Rodman and Wallace. but they all had great instincts and tree trunk legs that gave them leverage over bigger much taller defenders to hold and obtain position. Plus they played with grit and were brusiers. Thomas is too fenese for my liking. but thats just my opinion. no knock on him as a player or as a potential star in this leauge but i don't think he has that power player inside that we need. imagine him trying to be too cute with everything. get poundered by an opponent and start going off into the preimeter pretending to be a small forward...


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

The ROY said:


> He did fine guarding Centers alot bigger than him in college....
> 
> I don't think Paxson would draft a player that high he didn't think was special in some way....
> 
> ...


Barkley was build like a bull, Iverson is one of the fastest men in the NBA and Wallace is just muscle on top of muscle. 

Tyrus has a SG's body, isnt very fast and isnt a great scorer, this is just starting to smell like a bust waiting to happen.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

The ROY said:


> Since he's been playing PF


When are you and half the people on this board understand that Tyrus Thomas is a SF, he says hes a Sf, he looks like a SF, and hes build like one! If it looks like a rat and smells like a rat then by gollie it must be a Rat.


----------



## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

thebizkit69u said:


> Barkley was build like a bull, Iverson is one of the fastest men in the NBA and Wallace is just muscle on top of muscle.
> 
> Tyrus has a SG's body, isnt very fast and isnt a great scorer, this is just starting to smell like a bust waiting to happen.


lol

i agree with you

but no way he'll be a bust...none at all

obviously he isn't a great scorer, he hasn't been put in the position to be a scorer but did score in double figures 21 of 31 games last year...WITHOUT being a scoring option...

with all that said

I still want Bargs the Magician


----------



## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

The ROY said:


> lol
> 
> i agree with you
> 
> but no way he'll be a bust...none at all


 So why do you take a chance on a guy who at best will put up pick number 22 type numbers with the #2 overall pick?! It just makes no sense at all that the Bulls would choose the third best SF in the draft over the obvious better SF's in Gay and Morrison.


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

thebizkit69u said:


> When are you and half the people on this board understand that Tyrus Thomas is a SF, he says hes a Sf, he looks like a SF, and hes build like one! If it looks like a rat and smells like a rat then by gollie it must be a Rat.


what do you want me to say?

he played PF...

he definintely moves and is built like a SF..but we haven't seen him play SF..

so *shrugs shoulders*


----------



## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

thebizkit69u said:


> So why do you take a chance on a guy who at best will put up pick number 22 type numbers with the #2 overall pick?! It just makes no sense at all that the Bulls would choose the third best SF in the draft over the obvious better SF's in Gay and Morrison.


we really can't say what he'll do at best...

I didn't say I wanted to take a chance on him...he hasn't been my pick for a couple of weeks now...

I was just as turned off about the SF stuff as you...


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## TripleDouble (Jul 26, 2002)

I think the hope is that Thomas can turn into an AK47/Shawn Marion type of player (both have played PF). Plus at 19 there still is hope that Thomas could gain the weight to be better suited to the position than those two.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

The ROY said:


> lol
> 
> i agree with you
> 
> ...


Id takes Bargs with the 16 pick, and you will hear it here first that I trully believe that Bargs will take a drop in the draft because of his lack of working out with teams in the US. I doubt he will drop to #16 but I can honestly see a shocking drop to about #6 or #7 where the Bulls could pull off a trade to nab him. If Pax comes out of this draft with Bargs and Gay I will freaking kiss the ground he walks on, I swear to you I would kiss the damn ground the man walks on!


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## kulaz3000 (May 3, 2006)

thebizkit69u said:


> Id takes Bargs with the 16 pick, and you will hear it here first that I trully believe that Bargs will take a drop in the draft because of his lack of working out with teams in the US. I doubt he will drop to #16 but I can honestly see a shocking drop to about #6 or #7 where the Bulls could pull off a trade to nab him. If Pax comes out of this draft with Bargs and Gay I will freaking kiss the ground he walks on, I swear to you I would kiss the damn ground the man walks on!


well lets hope in saving you the humilation it doesn't happen...


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

TripleDouble said:


> I think the hope is that Thomas can turn into an AK47/Shawn Marion type of player (both have played PF). Plus at 19 there still is hope that Thomas could gain the weight to be better suited to the position than those two.


I wouldn't say Kirlilenko...but Thomas definintely has that Marion/Josh Smith type of vibe as a SF/PF


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## TripleDouble (Jul 26, 2002)

The ROY said:


> I wouldn't say Kirlilenko...but Thomas definintely has that Marion/Josh Smith type of vibe as a SF/PF


Why not Kirilenko?


----------



## El Chapu (Oct 23, 2004)

If somehow Josh Smith could enter this year draft, I say there would be no chance the Bulls draft him.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

TripleDouble said:


> Why not Kirilenko?


AK47 is one of the most underated players in the NBA, he trully is a once in a decade type of player. This guy does it all, play great defense, score, rebound and pass well. We will not see another Andrei Kirilenko for another 7 years.


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## kulaz3000 (May 3, 2006)

thebizkit69u said:


> AK47 is one of the most underated players in the NBA, he trully is a once in a decade type of player. This guy does it all, play great defense, score, rebound and pass well. We will not see another Andrei Kirilenko for another 7 years.


another 7 years? thats called precision right there. where did you buy your cyrstal ball from?

i don't see why he can't be a player such as AK47. He has the athletic ability. he has the long arms. the hops. he seems fast enough. but does he have the brains to be smart enough to be a big defensive presense? and i don't think AK47 is underated at all.


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

kulaz3000 said:


> another 7 years? thats called precision right there. where did you buy your cyrstal ball from?
> 
> i don't see why he can't be a player such as AK47. He has the athletic ability. he has the long arms. the hops. he seems fast enough. but does he have the brains to be smart enough to be a big defensive presense? and i don't think AK47 is underated at all.


LMAO!

yeah but I dunno....AK47 definintely is "unique"...Josh Smith might be the closest player to him the league...

But the thing about AK is, he controls the entire game...he's an incredible passer...he has range...he's strong as hell and never takes off any play

Only thing that ever bugged me about AK was when Pierce scored 40 on him and he cried after the game because he couldn't stop him LOL


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

kulaz3000 said:


> another 7 years? thats called precision right there. where did you buy your cyrstal ball from?
> 
> i don't see why he can't be a player such as AK47. He has the athletic ability. he has the long arms. the hops. he seems fast enough. but does he have the brains to be smart enough to be a big defensive presense? and i don't think AK47 is underated at all.


Hes very underated, to the average NBA fan and the Media rarely talks about him. But AK is just special and its just very hard to believe that another player can be just so allround good like he is.


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

thebizkit69u said:


> Hes very underated, to the average NBA fan and the Media rarely talks about him. But AK is just special and its just very hard to believe that another player can be just so allround good like he is.


Agreed..his statlines are insane...I can't count how many times I've been amazed seeing the espn bottom line post his statlines

16 pts, 11 rebs, 5 blks, 5 stls, 3 stls

he has those type of games DAILY


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## kulaz3000 (May 3, 2006)

thebizkit69u said:


> Hes very underated, to the average NBA fan and the Media rarely talks about him. But AK is just special and its just very hard to believe that another player can be just so allround good like he is.


i think all true nba fans apperciate that AK47 is a legit player in this leauge. and im sure his one of the top priorities on every scouting report when teams playe Utah. But the fact of the matter is he plays in Utah. and they arn't winning much and isn't a play off team. thats why he isn't highly publized to the general public. there are plenty of good players in small markets or in non winning teams that don't get the hype untill they win or move to a bigger market.

ala elton brand. no one thought he was legit. they thought he put up big numbers just on a bad team. even when he went to the clips he pretty much got the same treatmeant. but he become the real deal once they got into the playoffs and they realized he was legit(meaning the general public).

But i think most people realize that AK47 is the real deal. Would love that guy in a bulls uniform barring the crying. That reminds me when Bosh got a little teary when the bulls hammered them during the season. when tyson had 10/20? i rather players get pissed to say the least. getting teary is a little to emo for me..


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

No promise for Thomas:

http://draftexpress.com/viewarticle.php?a=1360

Word on the Street: No Promise for Thomas

Jonathan Givony
June 21, 2006
Does Thomas have a Promise?

Articles in both the Oregonian and Vancouver Columbian yesterday reported that Tyrus Thomas had cancelled his Tuesday workout with the Portland Trailblazers and informed them that he has a promise from a team drafting ahead of them. This information was relayed to reporters from both newspapers by Art Sasse, Portland’s vice president of communication. The Oregonian speculated that “Chicago is the team that has targeted Thomas.”

That news came as a surprise, as the Chicago Bulls have repeatedly said both privately and publicly over the past few days that absolutely no decision has been made of whom they will draft with the #2 pick as of right now. Much like in the case with Shelden Williams and the Hawks, it makes no sense to guarantee a player who will certainly be there at #2 and is regardless not working out competitively when a better option could very well come along. According to the Bulls, they still need to evaluate all their many different options, including Andrea Bargnani, when he is able to make it to the States now that the Italian League playoffs are in the books. News of a promise to Tyrus Thomas caught our source in Chicago by surprise: “It’s odd that that would come out today. As far as I know, we haven’t promised anyone anything.” The source talked about the fact that the Bulls are still evaluating who they might have on the board at #2, including Thomas, Aldridge, Morrison, and Andrea Bargnani, and *talked about Chicago’s hope of being able to bring the Italian big man in for a workout in the next eight days.*

DraftExpress went straight to the source of the news of a supposed promise, Art Sasse of the Portland Trail Blazers, who was present in the office and by the side of lead decision maker Kevin Pritchard at the time of our call. He reiterated to us that “Thomas’ workout was supposed to be today, but his agents Elfus and Siegel called us to cancel and said that he has a promise from a team drafting ahead of us. What the Oregonian reported was correct….We are anxious to work him out and are hoping to have a chance to do so.” When asked about a workout Portland supposedly watched in Orlando with Thomas, Sasse confirmed, but said it was “an agent sponsored workout,” and that they “need to see him at our facility.”

A phone call was placed to Thomas’ agents Brian Elfus and Michael Siegel to see if they had any news of a potential promise from the Bulls or another team, in order to see where everyone stands on this matter. *“Absolutely no promise has been made by any team drafting anywhere. Nothing the Oregonian has published so far about Tyrus has been accurate. I’ve never told anyone anything about a promise. Tyrus’ workout was put off because he had to take care of something more pressing, but we’ve left the door open with the Blazers for him to possibly come back. There are no guarantees in this draft until his name is called and he puts the team’s hat on.*

Elfus added that “it should be noted that Thomas already worked out for Portland in Orlando, and they had lunch with him.”

* * * * * 

Art Sasse of the Trailblazers later returned a phone call of ours and reiterated to us that Portland’s offer to work Thomas out is still on the table, but that “all the information in the Oregonian and other sources regarding what happened yesterday has been very consistent with what we’ve said and were told. I’ve spoken to Kevin [Pritchard] numerous times and that was the exact conversation he had with Thomas’ agents. Their stance sounded very definitive.” Sasse added that “if things have changed from yesterday to today, then we’d absolutely encourage Thomas to come work out.” When asked whether the Blazers will need to see a player before they draft him, he said they “would prefer to work him out.”

The moral of this story appears to be that Tyrus Thomas does not have a promise at this point and will continue to work out for teams drafting ahead and below Chicago.


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

LMAO

this TT **** is getting on my NERVES

damn....his whole situation is ANNOYING


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

This is just speculation, but this could be what happens when a bush-league agent deals with a bush-league franchise. 

Hypothetical: Tyrus Thomas doesn't want to play for Portland (who could blame him) and tells his agent to call off the work out. Bush-league agent tells Portland he is cancelling because Thomas has already received a promise, so as not to make his client look bad. Bush-league franchise knows that the agent is lying and leaks it to show up Thomas. 

This seems like the most feasible scenario.


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## SALO (Jun 6, 2002)

Bargnani coming in for a visit?

:clap:


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## kulaz3000 (May 3, 2006)

SALO said:


> Bargnani coming in for a visit?
> 
> :clap:


lets hope so. i think he can fit in a work out with the bulls with more than a week left remaining. lets hope paxson is able to get a close up look at the kid before he makes his final decision.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

Its a two horse race for me between Bargnani and Thomas.... with Aldridge, Gay and Roy behind them racing for third.

I'm glad that Bargnani is coming in.


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

Bargnani's getting taken by Toronto regardless

I'd love to have him though

I've NEVER seen a EURO bigman move the way he moves...he's wayy more athletic than Dirk and pau...


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## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

The ROY said:


> Bargnani's getting taken by Toronto regardless
> 
> I'd love to have him though
> 
> I've NEVER seen a EURO bigman move the way he moves...he's wayy more athletic than Dirk and pau...


You don't think that Bosh is going to get his way and they'll take Aldridge? Bargs is my choice for our #2 as well, and I thought lately it was sounding like maybe Toronto would take Aldridge and Bargs would be there for the taking. If Bargs is there, and Pax passes on him, the guy we get had better turn out to be an absolute star.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

> Tyrus’ workout was put off because he had to take care of something more pressing, but we’ve left the door open with the Blazers for him to possibly come back. There are no guarantees in this draft until his name is called and he puts the team’s hat on.
> 
> Elfus added that “it should be noted that Thomas already worked out for Portland in Orlando, and they had lunch with him.”


You're not kidding, SST. Tyrus Thomas and his representation have been totally bush-league leading up to the draft. Perhaps this is conjecture, but there are a lot of players in the NBA who prove to be so difficult to deal with that they are not worth the trouble, despite their talent, and I think Tyrus has a chance to become one of those players. This is the time for a player to present himself as an unblemished, gleaming jewel, and somehow this kid keeps blundering over and over. 

Why cancel the workout? Why not just not schedule it in the first place? And while you're at it, I would recommend not attacking interviewers because of an unfavorable mock draft on a website, and I would also suggest not having your management insist the website personnel change the mock draft.


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## kulaz3000 (May 3, 2006)

Darius Miles Davis said:


> You're not kidding, SST. Tyrus Thomas and his representation have been totally bush-league leading up to the draft. Perhaps this is conjecture, but there are a lot of players in the NBA who prove to be so difficult to deal with that they are not worth the trouble, despite their talent, and I think Tyrus has a chance to become one of those players. This is the time for a player to present himself as an unblemished, gleaming jewel, and somehow this kid keeps blundering over and over.
> 
> Why cancel the workout? Why not just not schedule it in the first place? And while you're at it, I would recommend not attacking interviewers because of an unfavorable mock draft on a website, and I would also suggest not having your management insist the website personnel change the mock draft.


the whole Tyrus Thomas pre draft debacle has been very messy indeed.


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## LegoHat (Jan 14, 2004)

such sweet thunder said:


> This is just speculation, but this could be what happens when a bush-league agent deals with a bush-league franchise.
> 
> Hypothetical: Tyrus Thomas doesn't want to play for Portland (who could blame him) and tells his agent to call off the work out. Bush-league agent tells Portland he is cancelling because Thomas has already received a promise, so as not to make his client look bad. Bush-league franchise knows that the agent is lying and leaks it to show up Thomas.
> 
> This seems like the most feasible scenario.


This could be right, in general I think the people around Tyrus are doing a terrible job of advising him on what to say and who to say it to.


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## LegoHat (Jan 14, 2004)

SALO said:


> Bargnani coming in for a visit?
> 
> :clap:


I certainly hope so, I'd like to see the look on Skiles' face when a 20 year old 7' player makes a fade away 3 pointer in a defender's face, and on the next play takes it strong to the basket. I think they'll come away very impressed with him.


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## kulaz3000 (May 3, 2006)

http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/bulls.asp

confirmation of Tyrus Thomas re work out for the bulls.


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

DaBabyBullz said:


> You don't think that Bosh is going to get his way and they'll take Aldridge? Bargs is my choice for our #2 as well, and I thought lately it was sounding like maybe Toronto would take Aldridge and Bargs would be there for the taking. If Bargs is there, and Pax passes on him, the guy we get had better turn out to be an absolute star.


In INSIDER..

Andy Katz said Bosh's input is welcomed in TO's front office..but he can't make all the decisons...

If colangelo's coveted him for the last two years...he's gonna get that kid, I have no doubt..and I see why

He can either trade Villeueva for whomever selects Aldridge or trade him to Milwaukee for Magloire & Williams...

I'm sure Aldridge would be happy either way...

But with the way Colangelo & D'Antoni had Amare & Diaw playing center...I wouldn't be surprised if they just kept all three of them


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

> “Absolutely no promise has been made by any team drafting anywhere. Nothing the Oregonian has published so far about Tyrus has been accurate. I’ve never told anyone anything about a promise. *Tyrus’ workout was put off because he had to take care of something more pressing, but we’ve left the door open with the Blazers for him to possibly come back.* There are no guarantees in this draft until his name is called and he puts the team’s hat on."



Ok. What exactly was so "pressing" to a potential top draft pick that he cancelled a scheduled workout with Portland, didn't reschedule, claims to have "left the door open" but not being clear enough about "leaving the door open" to the point that Portland brass believe he blew them off because he has a promise from another team? With the last being based on a representation by the agents that either did or didn't happen?


I don't know whether it is Thomas, his agents, Portland, some combination of the three or all of them, but somebody is playing some sort of game here.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

TomBoerwinkle#1 said:


> Ok. What exactly was so "pressing" to a potential top draft pick that he cancelled a scheduled workout with Portland, didn't reschedule, claims to have "left the door open" but not being clear enough about "leaving the door open" to the point that Portland brass believe he blew them off because he has a promise from another team? With the last being based on a representation by the agents that either did or didn't happen?
> 
> 
> I don't know whether it is Thomas, his agents, Portland, some combination of the three or all of them, but somebody is playing some sort of game here.


Thats what I was thinking. Maybe it was the possible groin strain I heard mentioned and he just didn't want to admit to an injury? I have no idea but it doesn't make sense and he blew off the Charlotte workout too, what exactly is the deal with Thomas and his crew? I don't know what could be more important than a predraft workout with teams with the 3rd & 4th pick in a draft a week away.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

TomBoerwinkle#1 said:


> Ok. What exactly was so "pressing" to a potential top draft pick that he cancelled a scheduled workout with Portland, didn't reschedule, claims to have "left the door open" but not being clear enough about "leaving the door open" to the point that Portland brass believe he blew them off because he has a promise from another team? With the last being based on a representation by the agents that either did or didn't happen?
> 
> 
> I don't know whether it is Thomas, his agents, Portland, some combination of the three or all of them, but somebody is playing some sort of game here.


He also had wierdness with canceling a Charlotte workout, didn't he, and had to come back to ours because of an upset stomach. That's three different teams, and a variety of nonsensical/mysterious explanations put out there.

-----------------

The good news I see is that we're bringing in Bargnani. The bad news is the Raptors still seem hot on him.


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## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

kukoc4ever said:


> Yah I guess... but unless that move is combined with another move the Lakers would just get smaller and crummier.
> 
> Does Odom mind being 2nd banana? I never heard much complaining out of him.


I recall the last time this was discussed, it appeared as though the prize for trading Odom (other than the immediate return of Roy) is capspace for the 2007 free agency class.


----------



## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

Darius Miles Davis said:


> You're not kidding, SST. Tyrus Thomas and his representation have been totally bush-league leading up to the draft. Perhaps this is conjecture, but there are a lot of players in the NBA who prove to be so difficult to deal with that they are not worth the trouble, despite their talent, and I think Tyrus has a chance to become one of those players. This is the time for a player to present himself as an unblemished, gleaming jewel, and somehow this kid keeps blundering over and over.
> 
> Why cancel the workout? Why not just not schedule it in the first place? And while you're at it, I would recommend not attacking interviewers because of an unfavorable mock draft on a website, and I would also suggest not having your management insist the website personnel change the mock draft.


this is why i thought they were first time agents. it's borderline pathetic and totally amateur hour.

i mean what is "more pressing" than working out for a team that could potentially pay you millions? um, unless the answer is "someone died" then it's nothing. nothing is more pressing. 

and i didn't think pax promised him anything, that just doesn't seem pax-like so thanks to the draftexpress "sleuths" for sussing that out. 

i'm really, really happy they're looking to schedule bargnani.


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## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

TomBoerwinkle#1 said:


> Ok. What exactly was so "pressing" to a potential top draft pick that he cancelled a scheduled workout with Portland, didn't reschedule, claims to have "left the door open" but not being clear enough about "leaving the door open" to the point that Portland brass believe he blew them off because he has a promise from another team? With the last being based on a representation by the agents that either did or didn't happen?
> 
> 
> I don't know whether it is Thomas, his agents, Portland, some combination of the three or all of them, but somebody is playing some sort of game here.


Good grief, this guy's agents are idiots. I'm frustrated just thinking about the 5% they're going to get even though I could have done an infinitely better PR job with absolutely no experience in the industry whatsoever.

Anyway, looking at the calender, it appears the "pressing" engagement was the second workout with the Bulls. The cancelled Portland workout was scheduled for yesterday - which is the same day as his second workout for Chicago. I have no idea why Thomas' camp wouldn't just be honest about it though. 

As for the promise stuff, I believe Portland's front office 100%. I don't trust Thomas' agents with anything they say. They are rank amatuers and remind me of Eddy Curry's brilliant agent duo from his last year and a half in Chicago.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

Ron Cey said:


> As for the promise stuff, I believe Portland's front office 100%. I don't trust Thomas' agents with anything they say. They are rank amatuers and remind me of Eddy Curry's brilliant agent duo from his last year and a half in Chicago.


I was thinking the same thing about Eddy's Amateurs.

These goofs make me think of the "Mo' money Mo' money" guys standing at the back of their van in the old "In Living Color" series.



Nice catch on the timing of the Bulls' second workout btw.


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## Vintage (Nov 8, 2002)

TomBoerwinkle#1 said:


> I was thinking the same thing about Eddy's Amateurs.
> 
> These goofs make me think of the "Mo' money Mo' money" guys standing at the back of their van in the old "In Living Color" series.
> 
> ...



I bet your first in line to buy yourself a Thomas' Bulls jersey


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

TomBoerwinkle#1 said:


> I was thinking the same thing about Eddy's Amateurs.
> 
> These goofs make me think of the "Mo' money Mo' money" guys standing at the back of their van in the old "In Living Color" series.


Yeah, Eddy's agents did a terrible job of securing their client a guaranteed $60 million-plus contract while the team who held his rights was doing everything in its power to drive down his value, including falsely comparing his health situation to that of Reggie Lewis and Hank Gathers. 

Sorry to "go there" again, but it seems to me you can't continue to say that Eddy is an overpaid bum and then rip his representation for being incompetent. They did a fantastic job, including arranging for Eddy to see multiple world-renowned doctors and seeking the counsel of a lawyer on the cutting edge of DNA/employment law. 

I would actually hold up Eddy's case as the perfect example of why agents are vital. He would have been in a world of trouble without them.

EDIT: sorry, I just realized you were talking about the guys he had before Leon Rose. Mea culpa. Carry on!


----------



## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

ScottMay said:


> Yeah, Eddy's agents did a terrible job of securing their client a guaranteed $60 million-plus contract while the team who held his rights was doing everything in its power to drive down his value, including falsely comparing his health situation to that of Reggie Lewis and Hank Gathers.
> 
> Sorry to "go there" again, but it seems to me you can't continue to say that Eddy is an overpaid bum and then rip his representation for being incompetent. They did a fantastic job, including arranging for Eddy to see multiple world-renowned doctors and seeking the counsel of a lawyer on the cutting edge of DNA/employment law.
> 
> ...


Man, I was reading that post, building up a head of steam to fire back and got to the last line and it completely deflated everything!

:laugh:

EDIT: I agree completely...Leon Rose did a helluva good job on behalf of his client.


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

TomBoerwinkle#1 said:


> Man, I was reading that post, building up a head of steam to fire back and got to the last line and it completely deflated everything!
> 
> :laugh:


Again, I'm truly sorry. There's nothing more embarrassing than a lapse in reading comprehension -- it's tough for the board to work without it.


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## narek (Jul 29, 2005)

Ron Cey said:


> As for the promise stuff, I believe Portland's front office 100%. I don't trust Thomas' agents with anything they say. They are rank amatuers and remind me of Eddy Curry's brilliant agent duo from his last year and a half in Chicago.


One of the reasons the blazers and the Oregonian have issues (besides Conzano and company wanting to make a splash) is they've been known not to tell the whole truth and nothing but the whole truth. They've got huge PR issues - one reason they overpaid for Nat McMillan as a coach last year. The truth is somewhere in between. 

I do think Thomas's agents, and a few other agents every year, do their clients a big misservice by not allowing them to compete against others or only for certain teams. You never do know what will happen on draft night, or what team will want someone so badly they'll make a huge trade on that night.


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## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

ScottMay said:


> EDIT: sorry, I just realized you were talking about the guys he had before Leon Rose. Mea culpa. Carry on!


Right. I was referring to Darren White and LaMont Carter. They of the "Eddy just had a bad game, and was blowing off some steam to us, so lets take a trade demand directly to the Sun Times without getting his approval or actually issueing the trade demand directly to the team first - even though we are only 3 games into the season." 

Tyrus' agents = those boobs.


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## narek (Jul 29, 2005)

Chris Ford addressed this in the Insider, which I don't have, but the Oregonian quoted it:



> Three, a source close to the Blazers says that Sasse's characterization may have been a little excessive. According to the source, the conversation was a little more vague, with Thomas' agents saying they were confident he wasn't going to be available at No. 4 and noting that the Blazers had already seen him work out in Orlando (though that was an agent-sponsored workout).
> 
> The bottom line is, I don't think Thomas has a promise. His workout behavior is unusual and difficult to interpret, but I think Thomas still isn't sure where he's going.


http://blazers.blogs.oregonlive.com/ 

Wild.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

narek said:


> Chris Ford addressed this in the Insider, which I don't have, but the Oregonian quoted it:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The Blazers are pretty much the highest drama team in the league outside the Knicks. I wouldn't be surprised if there was some malace in their actions. I think it's entirely possible he said something like "I didn't feel good so I promised the Bulls I'd come back tomorrow instead of flying all the way across the country to see you again" and they decided they'd make life difficult for him.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

MikeDC said:


> The Blazers are pretty much the highest drama team in the league outside the Knicks. I wouldn't be surprised if there was some malace in their actions. I think it's entirely possible he said something like "I didn't feel good so I promised the Bulls I'd come back tomorrow instead of flying all the way across the country to see you again" and they decided they'd make life difficult for him.


All I know is that Tyrus Thomas and his agents are going to fool some team into taking him in the top 3 and he will be nothing but a good sub in the NBA.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

If the Bulls take Thomas, I have a few bold predictions:

1) some people will initially praise Paxson for his deft scouting eye
2) those same people next year will be talking about how weak a draft 2006 was
3) partway through the season, we'll all wish he'd Be Like Mike<sup>tm</sup> and put on 100 lbs. Mike? Sweetney! We'll also wish he was as good as Sweets.
4) There will be game threads where people "don't get it" why Skiles has Thomas on the bench.
5) Surely someone taken later in the draft will make us regret the pick


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

DaBullz said:


> If the Bulls take Thomas, I have a few bold predictions:
> 
> 1) some people will initially praise Paxson for his deft scouting eye
> 2) those same people next year will be talking about how weak a draft 2006 was
> ...


100% agree. 

5) Dozens of we should have drafted Rudy Gay threads.
4) 10 threads about How Tyrus needs 4 years untill he fully develops.
3) The same people who praised the Tyrus pick will lead the Fire Pax threads.
2) Some moron will go on radio and blame Scott Skiles for Tyrus Thomas's lack of production.
1) And finally Dec 15 2006 we will see the first trade Tyrus Thomas (most likely for Eddy Curry) thread.


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## step (Sep 19, 2005)

Agree aswell.
So...
#2 for Villanueva already!


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## unBULLievable (Dec 13, 2002)

DaBullz said:


> If the Bulls take Thomas, I have a few bold predictions:
> 
> 1) some people will initially praise Paxson for his deft scouting eye
> 2) those same people next year will be talking about how weak a draft 2006 was
> ...


I guess that's what you wish. I'm sure you will be pleased. Seeing Paxson fail.

Too bad you don't have the ignore function enabled cause I don't think posters could put up with your (no masked cursing).

Man up....gangsta


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

Biz and DaBullz, I agree.

However, I will say the same thing will happen no matter who we draft (except if we draft Roy, the dozens of threads will be "We should have drafted ______")


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## McBulls (Apr 28, 2005)

DaBullz said:


> If the Bulls take Thomas, I have a few bold predictions:
> 
> 1) some people will initially praise Paxson for his deft scouting eye
> 2) those same people next year will be talking about how weak a draft 2006 was
> ...



You forgot 6) out for the year with knee (hamstring, groin, ankle, back) injury. 
Most guys who make their reps by jumping high have a way of getting hurt during an 82 game season. Getting injured during non-competitive tryouts is not a good omen.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

TomBoerwinkle#1 said:


> Biz and DaBullz, I agree.
> 
> However, I will say the same thing will happen no matter who we draft (except if we draft Roy, the dozens of threads will be "We should have drafted ______")


I guess nobody wins if we draft a bust. 

But Tyrus just has it writen all over him, atleast with Gay you know your going to have a high lite reel type of player who can have a long career just on his defense alone.

With Morrison you know hes never going to average below double digit scoring in his career. 

And with Roy well what would people expect from a guy who does everything well but not great?


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

I've been very vocal about my opposition to drafting Thomas, but I don't think at all that he will be a bust.

My problem with him is he is raw like sushi and too small and skinny to play PF for at least a couple of years. I think just about any of the other top prospects would work out better for the Bulls.

And as I've said, whoever we draft is going to disapoint some segment of the board, and with every rookie mistake, the hate threads will come.

There will be Official LaMarcus Aldridge Update threads.

There will be Official Our Number 2 Pick is a Wash threads.

There will be Why Isn't Tyrus Thomas Leading Us to 47+ wins and Third Best Record in the East threads. (We'll get that thread whether we draft him or not).

Its gonna happen.


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

TomBoerwinkle#1 said:


> Its gonna happen.


And thank goodness for it, because it's what makes the board go round.

My "oh, no" pick is Aldridge. I genuinely fear I will have trouble enjoying Bulls' games if Aldridge is drafted and given a prominent role next season.


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## SecretAgentGuy (Jul 15, 2003)

My biggest concern with Tyrus is how he views himself as a SF. His size says he's a SF. Can he put on 30 lbs within the next couple years and not lose much athleticism in order to become that Amare-esque PF people are hoping for? I'm having serious doubts. And if that's the case give me a 15 and 8 center that blocks a couple shots a game or swing for the fences with a Gay or Bargnani. 

The idea of drafting Tyrus doesn't give me that warm, fuzzy feeling.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

I predict Thomas will be much better than his naysayers expect if Pax drafts him and they will meekly crawl back into their holes and wait for a new opportunity to bash a player based on his heigth, weight, or size of his neck rather than his abilities.


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## Vintage (Nov 8, 2002)

I predict that whoever we draft....

1) Official Season is a Wash thread will be created out of anger of the draft pick
2) If we draft Thomas, if he doesn't get 40/20 in his first game, the chicken littles will proclaim him to be a bust. And they still might, even if he does.
3) That unless Thomas is ROY, MVP, DPOY, the same chicken littles will say Paxson doesn't know what he is doing.
4) In all seriousness, if Thomas needs a season to develop, people here will continually blast Paxson around the clock for picking him.
5) The "Brandon Roy Update thread" and "Saer Sene" update threads will rival in length of the JC Update Thread.
6) That all basketball related topics will end up somehow turning into "we shoulda drafted...." threads.
7) The Fire Paxson Fan Club will reach a new all time high for members (despite whomever he drafts, whomever he could trade for)
8) That there are certain members who desperately want to see Paxson fail.... (They'll deny it, of course)
9) That even if Paxson somehow pulled a miracle and landed LeBron, DWade, and Tim Duncan, some will criticise Paxson for not getting Ming or Shaq or Kobe or Dirk or Garnett....
10) That is Saer Sene is drafted, there is a core of posters who will give him 4-5 years of development before they criticize the pick (if he doesn't pan out) but yet won't give Thomas a year to develop....

And lastly, no matter what Paxson does, he will be viewed as a failure on draft day by 50% of the board, who will claim Paxson made a huge mistake (since they undoubtedly are better scouts than Paxson).


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## BULLHITTER (Dec 6, 2005)

i predict that the above thread will be accurate to within 99.9 of a percent.....(lol)


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## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

Vintage said:


> 8) That there are certain members who desperately want to see Paxson fail.... *(They'll deny it, of course)*


They don't all deny it. 

Anyway, I'll go ahead and throw down my position right now. I want Aldridge first and, if taken, I will expect somewhat consistent production from him as a rookie. 

I want Thomas second. If taken, I will most definitely be one of those guys begging patience beyond his rookie year for his development. Frankly, he'll pretty much get a free pass from me his rookie year so long as he seems to have his personal **** together and plays hard. He's going to struggle on the court as a rookie, I have no doubt. He truly is a "swing for the fences" pick.

If Roy is taken, he'd better be a solid contributor earning major minutes and significantly improving our backcourt by the 4th week of the season or I'm going to be pissed. 

Just so you know. :biggrin:


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

Hey, what can I say? All I heard last year was the mantra that the 2005-6 season was a huge setback, and that the Bulls need a 50 win season and second round of the playoffs performance in 2006-7, or the Paxosn regime is a failure. From November to May, we heard that on nearly a daily basis.

If Tyrus Thomas is a project who can't really play the 4 until he puts on 30 pounds of muscle, he ain't going to be helping much to reach that goal next year. For that reason, he gets no pass from me.

Take a project at 16. "Upside" is a code word for "can't play yet."


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

TomBoerwinkle#1 said:


> Biz and DaBullz, I agree.
> 
> However, I will say the same thing will happen no matter who we draft (except if we draft Roy, the dozens of threads will be "We should have drafted ______")


Given the #2 pick, pax has his choice of everyone in the draft pool. I think you can realistically fill in that blank with any of the top 5 or 6 picks except the #1. Beyond that, it's fair to say the rest of the league made the same kind of assessments of the players.


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## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

TomBoerwinkle#1 said:


> Hey, what can I say? All I heard last year was the mantra that the 2005-6 season was a huge setback, and that the Bulls need a 50 win season and second round of the playoffs performance in 2006-7, or the Paxosn regime is a failure. From November to May, we heard that on nearly a daily basis.
> 
> If Tyrus Thomas is a project who can't really play the 4 until he puts on 30 pounds of muscle, he ain't going to be helping much to reach that goal next year. For that reason, he gets no pass from me.
> 
> Take a project at 16. "Upside" is a code word for "can't play yet."


I think the #2 pick could die in a fiery airplane crash and the Bulls will make the second round of the playoffs next season on the #16 pick, capspace, and internal improvement. 

And since I wasn't one of the guys who was saying all that junk last season, and don't believe a word of it, I'm not going to let that impact my view of the draft.

I've said all along that the "big" jump forward isn't coming until the 2007-2008 season and that its very likely the Bulls won't even make their big move - i.e. consolidation of talent move - until next summer or the February '07 trade deadline. I still believe that.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Ron Cey said:


> I think the #2 pick could die in a fiery airplane crash and the Bulls will make the second round of the playoffs next season on the #16 pick, capspace, and internal improvement.
> 
> And since I wasn't one of the guys who was saying all that junk last season, and don't believe a word of it, I'm not going to let that impact my view of the draft.
> 
> I've said all along that the "big" jump forward isn't coming until the 2007-2008 season and that its very likely the Bulls won't even make their big move - i.e. consolidation of talent move - until next summer or the February '07 trade deadline. I still believe that.


In the finest of cubs traditions: "Wait 'til next year" - and before the season has even started.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

Ron Cey said:


> I think the #2 pick could die in a fiery airplane crash and the Bulls will make the second round of the playoffs next season on the #16 pick, capspace, and internal improvement.
> 
> And since I wasn't one of the guys who was saying all that junk last season, and don't believe a word of it, I'm not going to let that impact my view of the draft.
> 
> I've said all along that the "big" jump forward isn't coming until the 2007-2008 season and that its very likely the Bulls won't even make their big move - i.e. consolidation of talent move - until next summer or the February '07 trade deadline. I still believe that.


I agree for the most part. I do think there is some importance in getting a player at #2 who is actually NBA ready for a team in our position, but other than that I agree with your post.

Just to clarify: my post was after yours, but was not intended to sugest that you were one of the junk talkers. Our posts were within seconds of each other.


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## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

DaBullz said:


> In the finest of cubs traditions: "Wait 'til next year" - and before the season has even started.


Well, thats a blatant misrepresentation of what I wrote. I expect the Bulls to make the second round of the playoffs next year. I expect it. Anything short of that improvement is a failed season, in my book. So lets not get carried away.

My point is that I don't think next season is "the" year. Do you? Does anyone?

And I think the Bulls may not consolidate their talent - which I've repeatedly stated is inevitable - until next summer.

And to be clear, not only am I saying this before the season has started. I was saying it before last season was even over.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Ron Cey said:


> Well, thats a blatant misrepresentation of what I wrote. I expect the Bulls to make the second round of the playoffs next year. I expect it. Anything short of that improvement is a failed season, in my book. So lets not get carried away.
> 
> My point is that I don't think next season is "the" year. Do you? Does anyone?
> 
> ...


You'd think that a 41 win playoff team with #2 pick and #16 pick and cap space to sign FAs, along with internal improvement, should be able to make the jump. At least that was the bill of goods that's been profered my way repeatedly.


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## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

> I agree for the most part. I do think there is some importance in getting a player at #2 who is actually NBA ready for a team in our position, but other than that I agree with your post.


I agree with you, sort of. The part of me that agrees is the part that wants Aldridge as the first option. 

But if he's not available, then I want to go for the superior talent and potential homerun pick. That is Thomas. (It might also be Bargnani, but as I point out I don't feel comfortable commenting on him.)



> Just to clarify: my post was after yours, but *was not intended to sugest that you were one of the junk talkers*. Our posts were within seconds of each other.


I know. My point is that I'm not going to allow short-sighted moaning and groaning from a few irritable fans to impact my outlook on what the best long term course of action is for the team I follow.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

DaBullz said:


> You'd think that a 41 win playoff team with #2 pick and #16 pick and cap space to sign FAs, along with internal improvement, should be able to make the jump. At least that was the bill of goods that's been profered my way repeatedly.


REally? You think second round of the playoffs next year is setting the bar too low for this team? You think next year could be and should be "the year" -- and that 2 first round piks, FAs and internal improvement will skyrocket us into the finals?

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHH YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEHHHHHHH!!!!


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## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

> You'd think that a 41 win playoff team with #2 pick and #16 pick and cap space to sign FAs, along with internal improvement, should be able to make the jump.


A jump. Yes. And I think they will. I think they will improve considerably next season. But I don't think they'll be finished making the moves they will ultimately need to make to contend for the Championship. I sort of think we all agree on that. 

So I'm not sure what you are arguing about.



> At least that was the bill of goods that's been profered my way repeatedly.


Not by me.


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

It's been a while . . .

I can't help myself . . . 

Can you feel it . . . ?

IN PAX WE TRUST!


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## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

ScottMay said:


> It's been a while . . .
> 
> I can't help myself . . .
> 
> ...


I trust him.


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## TripleDouble (Jul 26, 2002)

ScottMay said:


> It's been a while . . .
> 
> I can't help myself . . .
> 
> ...


I know that is intended to be satire, but really, given his draft track record, I'm not sure it qualifies as satire.


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## Vintage (Nov 8, 2002)

I seem to remember last year, after we hit that 9 game losing streak and all the "Paxson is ____ for trading away Curry" "Season is a wash" "we suck threads" suggesting it was too early to jump boat, after all, we started 0-16 (or whatever it was the year before) and made the playoffs.

I was told it was two different scenarios and we'd be fortunate to sniff the playoffs.

We made the playoffs. This isn't an "I told ya so" tirade.

But a "maybe Paxson knows what he is doing" tirade.

He traded our only low post scorer. We slipped from a 4th seed to a 7 seed. We still lost in round one, in six games....but against the NBA Champions this time.

There is some solace in that. Gordon improved. Hinrich improved. Chandler regressed. Nocioni made significant strides, and Deng improved. Overall, we looked good considering we had no low post threat.

We are in a situation where we can address that. And we have another 1st round pick, to boot. We can get size at the 2Guard with it, should we choose to. 

Whats the point of this thread?

With continual growth and adding assets, we could very well make the 2nd round next year. Our players are young. Hinrich, Noc, Gordon, Chandler, Deng, Duhon.....are around 25 or younger. They still need a couple of years before they hit their prime.

And we are a playoff team now.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

TomBoerwinkle#1 said:


> REally? You think second round of the playoffs next year is setting the bar too low for this team? You think next year could be and should be "the year" -- and that 2 first round piks, FAs and internal improvement will skyrocket us into the finals?
> 
> OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHH YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEHHHHHHH!!!!


I have two responses to this post.  First, the promise of these things is what people have been telling us is a plan of genius. Second, you have to look at the situations that would allow us to make 2nd round:

I see these as most likely
1) We finish behind (three of these four) Miami, Cleveland, New Jersey and Detroit at #4, pitting us against a team like the Wizards, and somehow we beat 'em
2) We finish lower and have to beat Miami, Cleveland, Detroit, or the Nets.

Does Tyrus Thomas or Marcus Aldridge give us a better chance to beat Miami than the Mavs had?


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

Vintage said:


> I seem to remember last year, after we hit that 9 game losing streak and all the "Paxson is ____ for trading away Curry" "Season is a wash" "we suck threads" suggesting it was too early to jump boat, after all, we started 0-16 (or whatever it was the year before) and made the playoffs.
> 
> I was told it was two different scenarios and we'd be fortunate to sniff the playoffs.
> 
> ...



All of that is true and I agree with it to a point. I can't help but think that if we had Curry on the team against Miami he would have put us over the hump, we win that series and who knows how far we could have gotten after that? We gave the eventual champ fits without even having a legit center!


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

DaBullz said:


> Does Tyrus Thomas or Marcus Aldridge give us a better chance to beat Miami than the Mavs had?


No. I don't.

Maybe that is why I am not following you. Sounded to me like you were saying tthis years moves could and should skyrocket us to the top.

Perhaps my sarcasm meter is broken.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

TomBoerwinkle#1 said:


> No. I don't.
> 
> Maybe that is why I am not following you. Sounded to me like you were saying tthis years moves could and should skyrocket us to the top.
> 
> Perhaps my sarcasm meter is broken.



What about Tyrus Thomas, Sefolosha, Ben Wallace & Drew Gooden and subtracting Duhon & Sweetney, does that give us a better chance?


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

DaBullz said:


> You'd think that a 41 win playoff team with #2 pick and #16 pick and cap space to sign FAs, along with internal improvement, should be able to make the jump. *At least that was the bill of goods that's been profered my way repeatedly.*


Wasn't sarcasm. Though it is amusing that people are now willing to accept less given all these things in our "favor."

EDIT:

The biggest risk we face is becoming a 1st round and out, maybe occaisional 2nd round, team with a slew of pretty bad picks down the line from now on.


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)




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## Vintage (Nov 8, 2002)

DaBullz said:


> Wasn't sarcasm. Though it is amusing that people are now willing to accept less given all these things in our "favor."
> 
> EDIT:
> 
> The biggest risk we face is becoming a 1st round and out, maybe occaisional 2nd round, team with a slew of pretty bad picks down the line from now on.



And just what is the solution to the #2, #16 pick, and cap space?


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

ace20004u said:


> What about Tyrus Thomas, Sefolosha, Ben Wallace & Drew Gooden and subtracting Duhon & Sweetney, does that give us a better chance?


To play in the Finals next year? Probably not. That'd be a good team though, and maybe could contend in a couple of years.

Adding Big Ben would certainly put me more in the mood to give TT time to develop into something.


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

Love the Church Sign Generator . . . the REAL church signs at that site are unbelievable.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

DaBullz said:


> The biggest risk we face is becoming a 1st round and out, maybe occaisional 2nd round, team with a slew of pretty bad picks down the line from now on.


Yup.

Thank goodness for our savior..... the "found money."

I hope Paxson can hit a homerun.

I don't envy him, given this draft class and this year's free agent pool.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

DaBullz said:


> The biggest risk we face is becoming a 1st round and out, maybe occaisional 2nd round, team with a slew of pretty bad picks down the line from now on.


That is why the 2 picks, FA and internal development are important this year -- not to be in the Finals in 2007, but to continue to improve.

Add one more key piece in the 2007 draft and I think we are good. If we need to improve from there, I think you are right, we won't have many more opportunites in the draft, it will have to be in trades and FA from now on.


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## SecretAgentGuy (Jul 15, 2003)

TomBoerwinkle#1 said:


> To play in the Finals next year? Probably not. That'd be a good team though, and maybe could contend in a couple of years.
> 
> Adding Big Ben would certainly put me more in the mood to give TT time to develop into something.


 We still need Thomas to be much more effective on the offensive side. A trio of Thomas, Chandler, and Wallace gives you 20+ rpg, 4 bpg and 12 ppg.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

TomBoerwinkle#1 said:


> To play in the Finals next year? Probably not. That'd be a good team though, and maybe could contend in a couple of years.
> 
> Adding Big Ben would certainly put me more in the mood to give TT time to develop into something.



We almost beat this years NBA champs without ANY presence inside, I have to believe if we added this much talent we would be competing in the ECF right off the bat myself.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

ace20004u said:


> We almost beat this years NBA champs without ANY presence inside, I have to believe if we added this much talent we would be competing in the ECF right off the bat myself.


And then the heat woke up.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

DaBullz said:


> And then the heat woke up.


Yeah because we forced them too by pushing them hard. I think if we make the right moves this offseason we could be set to compete for the ECF.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

Yeah I am a big time believer that the Heat looked past the Bulls and Dwayne Wade got caught up in playing in his home town. Once they played like they cared, they just pickle slaped us.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

thebizkit69u said:


> Yeah I am a big time believer that the Heat looked past the Bulls and Dwayne Wade got caught up in playing in his home town. Once they played like they cared, they just pickle slaped us.


They were also playing without Zo for the most part. And without a couple of other guys for a game here/there due to suspensions.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

thebizkit69u said:


> Yeah I am a big time believer that the Heat looked past the Bulls and Dwayne Wade got caught up in playing in his home town. Once they played like they cared, they just pickle slaped us.



I agree. Except it weren't no pickle. That was a purple-tipped fleshsabre.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

TomBoerwinkle#1 said:


> I agree. Except it weren't no pickle. That was a purple-tipped fleshsabre.


I thought it was a double barreled mushroom tipped custard launcher?


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## Vintage (Nov 8, 2002)

I agree. They **** slapped us nicely. :yes:


Wait....so penis isn't filtered.

But c-o-c-k is?

The latter could refer to a Chicken.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

Vintage said:


> Wait....so penis isn't filtered.
> 
> But c-o-c-k is?
> 
> The latter could refer to a Chicken.


Yeah, we get that complaint all the time. It's really what doomed our short-lived poultry and animal husbandry forums.


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## Vintage (Nov 8, 2002)

TomBoerwinkle#1 said:


> Yeah, we get that complaint all the time. It's really what doomed our short-lived poultry and animal husbandry forums.



After the draft, we are going to need a Fire Paxson forum.

:clap: :cheers:


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## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

Vintage said:


> After the draft, we are going to need a Fire Paxson forum.
> 
> :clap: :cheers:


But then we'd lose half the posters here.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

TomBoerwinkle#1 said:


> Yeah, we get that complaint all the time. It's really what doomed our short-lived poultry and animal husbandry forums.













Until then, I shall remain the Falconer!


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