# Quick Trade Idea



## BBallFan (Jul 13, 2002)

NY trades: Travis Knight, and Charlie Ward
Indiana trades: Jonathan Bender and Austin Croshere

It works under realGM (I'm pretty sure the Knicks injury-exception is added to even the salaries), and I think it benefits both teams.

Why I think it benefits Indiana:

Well... O'Neal, both Millers, Artest, and Bender are all going to be free agents, so it'll take a real lot of money to keep the team together. Doing this trade concedes that they'd lose one of them (they give up Bender) to cut some salary, and lose Croshere's longterm contract. While Ward and Knight aren't off the books this year, they'll be off after next year. I don't know of many other ways that they'd be able to dump Croshere. They lose huge in terms of talent, but over the course of the deals, they save very substantial amounts of money.

Why I think it benefits New York:

They have money, and Croshere would even actually help NY, with McDyess out for the year. But obviously, the key is Bender. This move would then be followed with shipping Spree for something/anything of value, giving Bender the starting SF spot, and seeing what he can do. They hurt their much-needed rebuilding process by trading away Nene, but it could be really helped by trading for Bender.


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## jericho (Jul 12, 2002)

I don't love it or hate it. It would be pretty courageous for both teams.

It might make New York mildly more interesting to watch this year. Layden will have to choose between boring/outraging fans to death by sitting pat with a flawed and frustrated roster, or sacrificing some long-term financial flexibility in the hopes of shaking things up, giving Bender a chance and waking Croshere up.

I've been saying for a while that Indiana has got to shorten its rotation and figure out which of the young horses it's really got to back. Ideally you'd do that by trading 2-3 of them for one or two wily, accomplished veterans who can help push this team to the next level. I'm not sure Ward fits that bill, and Knight is obviously a throw-in.


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## BBallFan (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>jericho</b>!
> It might make New York mildly more interesting to watch this year. Layden will have to choose between boring/outraging fans to death by sitting pat with a flawed and frustrated roster, or sacrificing some long-term financial flexibility in the hopes of shaking things up, giving Bender a chance and waking Croshere up.


They're never going to be under the cap, and their only flexibility will ever come from exceptions. Bender has such huge potential, and only two years ago Croshere looked like he was developing into, at the very worst, a useful player. On a team that's seriously lacking in talent, I think gambling on a potential star in Bender (sure, he hasn't done anything... but any 7 footer with his athleticism and shooting-touch is still a potential star), and for Croshere to play the way he used to is worth it.



> I've been saying for a while that Indiana has got to shorten its rotation and figure out which of the young horses it's really got to back. Ideally you'd do that by trading 2-3 of them for one or two wily, accomplished veterans who can help push this team to the next level. I'm not sure Ward fits that bill, and Knight is obviously a throw-in.


I've always thought they should too, and package one of their 3 SFs to upgrade somewhere... but trading one of them for reducing salary also has its benefits, and arguably more. This trade would allow them to shorten their rotation to 9 (Tinsley/Miller/Artest/O'Neal/Miller/Harrington/Foster/Mercer, and whoever wins out during the season between Ward and Eric Strickland), while giving them a much cheaper and easier way to keep O'Neal, Brad Miller, Artest, Foster, and Reggie all longterm. I can't see how Indiana will be able to keep them, if they're still going to have to pay Croshere for the next 5 years... along with re-up Bender.


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## Pacerz Ballaz (Oct 18, 2002)

are you a knick's fan? Travis Knight is an American white-boy's Chrtis Dudley and Chalie Ward haws been hated by our fans fort years. sure i like getting rid of Croshere but Bender is better than Knight ad Ward combined. if we'er gonna trade bender and crosherre ew should get sumthin in return besides someone who'll be run outta town bt our fans and the worst player in NBA history.:upset: :upset: :upset: :upset: :upset: :upset: :upset:


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## BBallFan (Jul 13, 2002)

To put numbers behind it:

Ward and Travis Knight combine for 9.75 million dollars this year, and 10.43million next year (assuming Ward picks up his option, and I see no reason why he wouldn't. He'll never get 6million elsewhere)

Bender and Croshere combine for over 10million this year . Bender is a restricted free agent this offseason, but Croshere still has 34+ million dollars left, AFTER this year (to go along with 7million for this year). Do you think they're going to want to pay him all of that money, knowing that that they have to give substantial deals to several players this offseason? You can argue that Artest won't require that large of a deal (he's a restricted free agent, and I don't think he'd be able to get more, or at least not much more, than the full midlevel), Foster will come back relatively cheap, and that Reggie might give them a discount... but there's no way out of giving Jermaine O'Neal the max, and Brad Miller a very large contract as well (I'm sure that whoever loses out on Kandi is going to offer Brad a lot of money as well). They can't pay all of them + Croshere.

He's almost impossible to dump, but with the Knicks huge hole at PF, and complete lack of potential stars... I think the Knicks would take on his contract to get Bender.


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## BBallFan (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Pacerz Ballaz</b>!
> are you a knick's fan? Travis Knight is an American white-boy's Chrtis Dudley and Chalie Ward haws been hated by our fans fort years. sure i like getting rid of Croshere but Bender is better than Knight ad Ward combined. if we'er gonna trade bender and crosherre ew should get sumthin in return besides someone who'll be run outta town bt our fans and the worst player in NBA history.:upset: :upset: :upset: :upset: :upset: :upset: :upset:


No, I'm not, but I just think that they're an interesting team now, because they're the worst collection of talent and youth, but with tons of financial support.

Anyways, Knight and Ward are really bad players (well, Ward's a solid backup PG... but not a good player by any stretch of the imagination), and talentwise the Pacers lose huge. But there's no denying that the Pacers are going to have trouble keeping all of their players with Croshere there as well.


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## MPK (Oct 20, 2002)

the pacers only do this because of the cap. i would like to see this deal and then maybe see them trade thomas and spree, and get some sort of young talent in return. if thye could get their hands on fizer, having the foward positions occupied by fizer and bender is not to bad.


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## jericho (Jul 12, 2002)

The logic of the trade is slowly growing on me. Addition by subtraction may work for the Pacers, who will regret Croshere's contract more with each year, and simply can't give Bender enough minutes to give him a shot at realizing his potential. I think it would help, though, if the Knicks perhaps threw in a couple of second round picks.


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## BBallFan (Jul 13, 2002)

I'm not even sure if they'd have to add a 2nd rounder or two... but if that's the only holdup, I think the Knicks would do it. But again, I don't think it would come to that, because they (along with Indiana) know how much uglier Croshere's contract's going to look once Indiana passes that luxury-tax threshold.

And then how about this Spreewell trade, based on the actual rumor (ESPN was reporting that the Blazers and Knicks talked about it, but the Knicks were holding out for Dale Davis to be included) of Derek Anderson and Ruben Patterson for Spreewell.

Portland gets: Latrell Spreewell
Minnesota gets: Derek Anderson
NY gets: Ruben Patterson, Marc Jackson, and Anthony Peeler.

Basically, I think it works for all teams involved. Portland supposedly was ready to give up Derek Anderson and Patterson for Spree, but obviously Anderson doesn't fit in well in NY, cause neither he nor Houston can play anywhere other than SG, and they sure can't move Houston. 

Why I think it works for NY: (although it only works if they get a starting SF from somewhere else)

They get a starting center (he's coming off of a bad year... but he's still a good talent, and I think he'd do very well starting at C for NY), and a tough defensive-minded swingman in Patterson. Peeler was added to even the contracts up, but I think he's not a bad guard to have off of the bench. Also, I'm pretty sure neither this trade, nor the Indiana one uses the injury-exception... so they have that + Kurt Thomas to trade if they wanted to add a PG or some more youth.

Why I think it works for Portland:

Well, they supposedly already are for the trade, and I think it really benefits them. Spree, while slowing down (but I think it can be helped if he's not forced to play 40+ minutes again), is still a very good defender/slasher, and an upgrade over Derek Anderson. They also have enough talented 2s/3s to deal with the loss of Ruben Patterson.

Why I think it works for Minnesota:

Szczerbiak can easily shift to SF, to allow Derek Anderson to start at SG. It adds some more much needed scoring, and with Loren Woods starting to look like a good player, Marc Jackson isn't needed at all. 

Just some ideas... what's probably going to wind up happening though, is that the Knicks aren't going to wind up doing anything exciting to shake up their team.


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## MPK (Oct 20, 2002)

i would like to see them do that 3 way and then trade ward and knight for bender and croushere, then exchange the injury exception for fizer, look at the lineup now

pg-eisely/williams
sg-houston/postell/patterson/peeler
sf-bender/fizer/croushere/patterson/postell
pf-thomas/fizer/croushere/bender
c-jackson/thomas

obviously cuts would need to be made

then they wait for thomas's trade value to go up and deal him to a team that need inside toughness and rebounding for a stretch run.

suddenly a you core of frank williams/milos vujavic/bender/fizer/2003 draft pick/and whoever they get for kurt thomas

they also could trade some of their talent at foward for other needs


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## MPK (Oct 20, 2002)

i just had a brainstorm, since the wolves dont wanna pay wally how bout spree(shorter contract than wally would get, its up in 2005-6, not max) and kurt thomas for wally, marc jackson and terrell brandon

then trade the injury exception for fizer and deal ward and knight for bender and croushere

suddenly the knicks can use a combination of wally, fizer and bender at the 2,3,4 spots, or use bender or fizer as a 6th man with houston at the 2 

there is young talent available for spree, thomas, exception, and close to expiring contracts (ward and knight)


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

How about the Lakers trade Mark Madsen to the Sonics for Vlad Radmanovic


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## BBallFan (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>MPK</b>!
> i just had a brainstorm, since the wolves dont wanna pay wally how bout spree(shorter contract than wally would get, its up in 2005-6, not max) and kurt thomas for wally, marc jackson and terrell brandon


As much as the problems between Wally/KG are publicized, I don't think the Wolves would want to give him up for mainly an aging borderline star in Spreewell, who I don't even think is better than Wally for even just this year.

I actually think Wally is going to stay and resign in Minnesota... but Spree will be dealt somewhere (probably Portland, I'd guess)


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## MPK (Oct 20, 2002)

i can understand what you are saying, but depsite all this talk about spree beign old, he is only 32 and averaged the most ppg last season since 1997. he still has some lead left in his pencil. i would say he has atleast 3 year left of scoring over 17 a game and being a good 2nd or 3rd star on a good team. if spree goies to portland i hope there is some way to get some more size like zach randolph. come on, we don't need more swingmen


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## Pacerz Ballaz (Oct 18, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> How about the Lakers trade Mark Madsen to the Sonics for Vlad Radmanovic


ya know i'd like to see that happen. sonics get rid of an over-rated sophmore and get the Mad Dog. good for the Sonics. het let's get the Pacers to trade Bender for Madson. i'm serious i like mad dog.


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## jsa (Jul 16, 2002)

I do not believe Indiana has given up on Bender at his young age. Talent wise, Croshere is better than Ward and Knight alone , without Bender in the deal. I recognize the salary cap issues, but the Knicks have nothing to offer anybody except Spreewell, and he obviously has baggage. Houston would help some teams, but his salary is to high. Ping pong is a good game, and the Knicks will have plenty of ping pong balls to use at the end of the season.


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## BBallFan (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>jsa</b>!
> I do not believe Indiana has given up on Bender at his young age. Talent wise, Croshere is better than Ward and Knight alone , without Bender in the deal. I recognize the salary cap issues


If you do recognize the salary cap issues, do you really think it's possible that the Pacers are going to be able to keep Brad Miller, Jermaine O'Neal, Ron Artest, Bender and Reggie Miller (they already signed Foster... I'm not sure of the actual numbers, but it was a longterm contract)?

I can't see how it's possible to keep that many of them, unless they get rid of Croshere's longterm contract.

Also, the Knicks supposedly are trying to get out of spend mode... but I think they'd be willing to take on money to get young potential.



> "There is not a goal to cut back on the salaries. The goal is to put together a winning franchise, not just a winning year, a winning franchise. As long as our moves are consistent with that we'll be supportive. ... That's a good answer."
> - James Dolan


The best way to create a winning franchise in today's free-agency (before the best way was to sign Shaq) is to put a collection of young talent together, and watch them grow. 

Even though its obviously in the Knicks best interest to do something... I was starting to think that they were goign to wind up doing nothing. However, with the signing of Lee Nailon and this quote, I fully expect them to go out and get some more young(er) talent, even if it means taking on bad contracts to do it.


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## MPK (Oct 20, 2002)

this should be layden's goal by the end of the year: end the year with atleast 3 out of 5 of these young players: bender, sczerbiak, crawford, fizer and croushere
if he can do that then maybe there is a future

also, nailon sign, but where did the money come from, the midlevel exception or the injury exception, i hope not the injury exception


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## BBallFan (Jul 13, 2002)

They used a portion of their midlevel. It didn't touch the injury exception.

As for the young players you listed... Croshere shouldn't be a goal, and should only ever be acquired if it means getting a young talent as well (Bender or Artest... but I don't think they'd give Artest, because he contributes too much to the current team. And Artest's a big reason why I think they're going to wind up trading Bender). And Szczerbiak won't leave Minnesota, I don't think... and even if he was going to, I don't think the Knicks have the value it'll take to get him.

Fizer & Crawford, or Bender & Croshere seem like they could be possible though (unless Indiana is unwilling to eventually admit that it's impractical and impossible to sign all of their FAs).


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## MPK (Oct 20, 2002)

if they ended the season with those 4 players i would be very pleased. donnie walsh is smart enough to realize that he can't resign everyone

for arguements sake, lets say the knicks make these deal and get lebron

in the future the starting lineup will be some for of lebron, bender, crawford, and fizer. all they need is a servicable center. suddenly the knicks future looks brighter


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