# A Response to the JO and KG Trade Rumors?



## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

If these rumors are true, here's one of the largest trades I've ever thought of. I think it gets it done for all teams involved and actually helps all teams involved:

*New York Knicks Trade (to the Suns):*
Channing Frye…F/C
Nate Robinson…G
23rd pick
Cash considerations

*Knicks Receive (from the Suns):*
4th pick
Marcus Banks and the 29th pick

*Knicks Trade:*
David Lee…F
Randolph Morris…C
Jared Jefferies….SF
Malik Rose…F
Steve Francis…PG
Marcus Banks…PG
Jerome James…C
Kelvin Cato…C
Future 2nd round draft pick
4th pick
29th pick

*Knicks Receive:*
Kevin Garnett…F
Troy Hudson…PG
Vladimir Radmanovic….F
Jason Collins…C

*Lakers Trade:*
Lamar Odom…F
Andrew Bynum…C
Brian Cook…F/C
Vladimir Radmanovic…F

*Lakers Receive:*
Jermaine O’Neal…F/C
Mike James….G
Eddie House…G
29th pick 
Future 2nd round pick


*Minnesota Trade:*
Kevin Garnett…F
Trenton Hassell…G/F
Troy Hudson…PG
Mike James…PG

*Minnesota Receives:*
Richard Jefferson…SF
Marcus Banks…PG
Malik Rose…F
Randolph Morris…C
Jerome James…C
4th pick
*
Indiana Pacers:*
Jermaine O’Neal…F/C

*Indiana Receives:*
Steve Francis…G
Jared Jefferies…F
Andrew Bynum…C
David Lee…F


*New Jersey Nets Trade:*
Richard Jefferson…SF
Jason Collins…C

*New Jersey Nets Receive:*
Lamar Odom….F
Trenton Hassell…G/F
Kelvin Cato…C


The Knicks get KG, a backup PF that would open up the game for Curry when KG rests in Vladimir Radmanovic, a solid backup center with Collins and a bad contract in Hudson, who should be bought out.

The Lakers get another star player to put next to Kobe that could dominate. James is the PG they need with them letting Smush Parker walk via free agency; James is a perfect fit. Eddie House is filler but can shoot jumpers. 

The Wolves bring in a solid player in Jefferson that could be the complimentary piece to a future star. He could be the stepping stone to getting them back on track post KG. They also receive the 4th pick which very well could be the future star I have been referring to in addition to a 1st round caliber player in Morris. James and Rose are cap fillers.

The Pacers receive as good a package they could receive for a guy that may have demanded a trade. If those rumors are true, the ball is in our court since the Pacers HAVE to find a team to take JO. In return for him, they get a pretty good package with a solid young player that could be a franchise player in Bynum. They also receive David Lee which helps them solidify a future all-star caliber front court. Jefferies is a capable player as a defender in certain systems and Francis is cap filler and potential trade bait once his contract enters its final year.

The Nets make the trade because Odom is capable of playing the 4 and scoring next to Krstic which is what there looking for. Odom is significantly better than the player he was with the Heat, so they very well would be receiving an all-star in the East. Hassell is a swingman replacement for Jefferson; he plays excellent defense and is a solid role player.


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## A_12_92 (Jan 7, 2007)

it wont go down, its too big, is a huge massive trade, it wont go the twolves part, i dont know the other parts but minnesota part wont go, i think suns parts wont go either, i dont ever think that some GM has that reakky think like an option, its too massive


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## JuX (Oct 11, 2005)

I'll pass. I don't think it'll ever work for the Wolves and other teams, too. It's massively huge, like he said above, and too big for it to work. I also don't want to have Banks here again after we left the open for him and he decided to go to Phoenix instead.


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## Mateo (Sep 23, 2006)

lol, Knicks trade half their roster. Not even worth mentioning because the largest trades of all time had less than 10 players *total* involved, and there's only been a few with more than 7 or 8 players total.


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

that is an insanely huge deal.
as far as the wolves are concerned id pass on jefferson and the #4 (rest is obvious filler).
if KG goes it needs to be for very young guys and expirings, and as many picks as possible... the number 4 is great obviously but jefferson is highly overrated


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

A_12_92 said:


> it wont go down, its too big, is a huge massive trade, it wont go the twolves part, i dont know the other parts but minnesota part wont go, i think suns parts wont go either, i dont ever think that some GM has that reakky think like an option, its too massive


History has to be set at some point. It is a large trade but as long as the contracts all balance out, what would be the problem? You improve your situation and that is all any GM particularly cares about. As for the Wolves end of the deal, what is so wrong about it? If KG demands a trade, there won't be much better than receiving a qausi all-star, a lottery selection, a first round caliber player and financial flexibility from moving some of your lengthier contracts.


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

Juxtaposed said:


> I'll pass. I don't think it'll ever work for the Wolves and other teams, too. It's massively huge, like he said above, and too big for it to work. I also don't want to have Banks here again after we left the open for him and he decided to go to Phoenix instead.


So you would rather pass on a good player because of pride issues? Last time I checked, you guys still had Troy Hudson on the roster, drafted Randy Foye and pursued Mike James. While Hudson has been someone you have been supposedly trying to move, drafting Foye suggested that Banks had no future except on the bench. Seeing what things were like elsewhere with the Suns, I think Banks would just relish the opportunity of getting minutes. He did a pretty solid job with guys when he did play.

Why wouldn't it work for the Wolves. Give me some real feedback.


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

Mateo said:


> lol, Knicks trade half their roster. Not even worth mentioning because the largest trades of all time had less than 10 players *total* involved, and there's only been a few with more than 7 or 8 players total.


...So this trade would set a new precedent for multi-team trades. Give me some real reasons why the trade can or can not happen because of talent. Financially speaking, it's all even, so talent is the only real issue here.


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

TwinkieFoot said:


> History has to be set at some point. It is a large trade but as long as the contracts all balance out, what would be the problem? You improve your situation and that is all any GM particularly cares about. As for the Wolves end of the deal, what is so wrong about it? If KG demands a trade, there won't be much better than receiving a qausi all-star, a lottery selection, a first round caliber player and financial flexibility from moving some of your lengthier contracts.


jefferson is not an all star, no one else in that trade is a first round talent... 
the number 4 pick is nice yes, but thats not enough to get garnett.


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

Avalanche said:


> that is an insanely huge deal.
> as far as the wolves are concerned id pass on jefferson and the #4 (rest is obvious filler).
> if KG goes it needs to be for very young guys and expirings, and as many picks as possible... the number 4 is great obviously but jefferson is highly overrated


Your dealing two of the best big men in the league, who are still in their prime and potential Hall of Famers. How else do you expect to move them especially considering how massive there contracts are?

Jefferson certainly is not the kind of guy that will carry a team but he is a solid complementary player of the caliber of a Rasheed Wallace, Vince Carter, Lamar Odom, etc. He would be a valuable commodity especially to your franchise because he's locked into a multi-year deal which would prevent him from leaving. Guys like him are what FA potential signee's look for when they look to go to a different team. They'd like to see that there is a guy there that is capable of alleviating some of the pressure off of them coming into a new situation. In other words, Jefferson is a stepping block for the Wolves that can open up doors for the franchise on the floor, in the FA market and to wins down the road. You get the 4th overall pick in the draft along with Randolph Morris who most say would have been a first round pick in this years draft had he not declared last year. Josh Smith had nothing but good things to say about him and said his game is cut in the mold of a Tim Duncan. I doubt the guy ever becomes a star but he is a big man that might help do good things for you down the line along with that 4th pick. Marcus Banks played well with you guys and should continue to do so when he is reacquired. You move out several long term contracts in the process so what is not to like about the deal?


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## Mateo (Sep 23, 2006)

TwinkieFoot said:


> ...So this trade would set a new precedent for multi-team trades. Give me some real reasons why the trade can or can not happen because of talent. Financially speaking, it's all even, so talent is the only real issue here.


Because teams don't trade half their roster. It doesn't happen. It won't happen.

Did you follow the NBA trade deadline this year? It's hard to get teams to even agree on a straight player for player swap. Getting them to agree to trade a quarter to half their roster is simply not possible. There's a reason the precedent hasn't been set: it's impossible.


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

TwinkieFoot said:


> Your dealing two of the best big men in the league, who are still in their prime and potential Hall of Famers. How else do you expect to move them especially considering how massive there contracts are?
> 
> Jefferson certainly is not the kind of guy that will carry a team but he is a solid complementary player of the caliber of a Rasheed Wallace, Vince Carter, Lamar Odom, etc. He would be a valuable commodity especially to your franchise because he's locked into a multi-year deal which would prevent him from leaving. Guys like him are what FA potential signee's look for when they look to go to a different team. They'd like to see that there is a guy there that is capable of alleviating some of the pressure off of them coming into a new situation. In other words, Jefferson is a stepping block for the Wolves that can open up doors for the franchise on the floor, in the FA market and to wins down the road. You get the 4th overall pick in the draft along with Randolph Morris who most say would have been a first round pick in this years draft had he not declared last year. Josh Smith had nothing but good things to say about him and said his game is cut in the mold of a Tim Duncan. I doubt the guy ever becomes a star but he is a big man that might help do good things for you down the line along with that 4th pick. Marcus Banks played well with you guys and should continue to do so when he is reacquired. You move out several long term contracts in the process so what is not to like about the deal?


what not to like is that we get much worse, and its not as if we're gonna get cap space anytime soon to get a big name FA, Jefferson would be the go to guy for a few years which means we are definately one of the bottom teams in the league for even longer.
and as far as your first statement goes, the other way i would propose to move 2 all star big men is to do it in SEPERATE DEALS


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## Mateo (Sep 23, 2006)

TwinkieFoot said:


> Your dealing two of the best big men in the league, who are still in their prime and potential Hall of Famers. How else do you expect to move them especially considering how massive there contracts are?
> 
> Jefferson certainly is not the kind of guy that will carry a team but he is a solid complementary player of the caliber of a Rasheed Wallace, Vince Carter, Lamar Odom, etc. He would be a valuable commodity especially to your franchise because he's locked into a multi-year deal which would prevent him from leaving. Guys like him are what FA potential signee's look for when they look to go to a different team. They'd like to see that there is a guy there that is capable of alleviating some of the pressure off of them coming into a new situation. In other words, Jefferson is a stepping block for the Wolves that can open up doors for the franchise on the floor, in the FA market and to wins down the road. You get the 4th overall pick in the draft along with Randolph Morris who most say would have been a first round pick in this years draft had he not declared last year. Josh Smith had nothing but good things to say about him and said his game is cut in the mold of a Tim Duncan. I doubt the guy ever becomes a star but he is a big man that might help do good things for you down the line along with that 4th pick. Marcus Banks played well with you guys and should continue to do so when he is reacquired. You move out several long term contracts in the process so what is not to like about the deal?


I don't think you understand the Timberwolves situation very well. You seem to be a Knicks fan who wants Garnett bad. Swapping Garnett for Jefferson and the 4th pick doesn't help our present or future. I don't think you understand, the Timberwolves have no real prospects (except our pick this year), and no future draft picks for a few years. All that trade would do is guarantee that our team would be one of the very worst in the league for the next 5 years, with almost all of those picks going to other teams.

And when you have to oversell an undrafted rookie who only played a few minutes, you know the trade isn't very good.


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

Mateo said:


> Because teams don't trade half their roster. It doesn't happen. It won't happen.
> 
> Did you follow the NBA trade deadline this year? It's hard to get teams to even agree on a straight player for player swap. Getting them to agree to trade a quarter to half their roster is simply not possible. There's a reason the precedent hasn't been set: it's impossible.



Correction, the precedent has not been set because you've never had stars to superstar quality talent demanding trades from their teams in the past before. You also did not have the issue of matching contracts dollar for dollar in order for them to work in the past. In short, the precedent has not been set because the situation has not existed for it to occur.

The trade deadline is not an accurate reflection of how the league goes about making deals because a majority of the deals that usually occur around that team are for teams looking to improve their roster going into the playoffs or lottery bound teams looking to put themselves in a better position to refurbish their roster with younger and unproven talent. The offseason is where we truely see teams looking to improve their teams. This is why a trade as large as this would occur during that time.

I'm fully aware that the trade won't happen because I'm not a GM. What I'm asking is whether the trades are fair.


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

Avalanche said:


> jefferson is not an all star, no one else in that trade is a first round talent...
> the number 4 pick is nice yes, but thats not enough to get garnett.


Note the term "quasi" in front of all-stars. Quasi refers to "having some resemblance usually by possession of certain attributes." A man that just got through averaging 19.7ppg, 5.6rpg on 48% shooting coupled with solid defense in the playoffs does qualify as that to me. Like I said, a young player that can do that, along with a 4th round pick in this years draft, along with a first round caliber player in Randolph Morris, and Marcus Banks who played solid ball for you guys off the bench a year ago, should be enough. This all isn't considering the fact that by making this trade, you alleviate yourself of several long term contracts that would be hard to move.


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

Avalanche said:


> what not to like is that we get much worse, and its not as if we're gonna get cap space anytime soon to get a big name FA, Jefferson would be the go to guy for a few years which means we are definately one of the bottom teams in the league for even longer.
> and as far as your first statement goes, the other way i would propose to move 2 all star big men is to do it in SEPERATE DEALS



If you move them in a multi-team deal then you maximize the number of players involved and thus maximize the number of assets you can acquire. Considering your situation, that is exactly the situation the Wolves need to be in, in case they move Garnett because you don't have very much of anything else to play with.


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

i just dont understand why your adement on trying to get this done in one deal, its not necissary.

Jefferson has pretty stats with Kidd setting him up, hes an above average SF and thats all, randolph morris is not a 1st round talent IMO.

my response to the JO and KG trade rumors is..... minny needs to try and get JO, rickys expiring and the first round pick would be a start.


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

Mateo said:


> I don't think you understand the Timberwolves situation very well. You seem to be a Knicks fan who wants Garnett bad. Swapping Garnett for Jefferson and the 4th pick doesn't help our present or future. I don't think you understand, the Timberwolves have no real prospects (except our pick this year), and no future draft picks for a few years. All that trade would do is guarantee that our team would be one of the very worst in the league for the next 5 years, with almost all of those picks going to other teams.
> 
> And when you have to oversell an undrafted rookie who only played a few minutes, you know the trade isn't very good.


You made alot more sense to me after this post. I was aware of the fact that you forfeited first round picks after the Joe Smith scandel for several years but figured it was coming to an end. I guess the only thing you can hope for is to be far below the cap.

Then again, if you miss the lottery, your still entitled to your lottery draft pick. That is how you got Randy Foye last year and this is how your getting your draft pick this year. With that proposed trade, you won't be making the playoffs, so you'll be entitled to this first round pick until your situation stemming from the Joe Smith scandel expires. So I got to ask you, what are you worrying about? You'd you have two first round picks in one of the deepest drafts ever, still have Ricky Davis as trade bait, and have a young cast to serve as some sort of foundation to entice FA's to sign with your team.


P.S., that undrafted rookie you mentioned had a solid stint in college this year and drew the attention of 10 teams before he signed with the Knicks. From now till the offseason he's been working with our frontline coaches Mark Aguirre and George Glymph, the same guys who are responsible for developing Jermaine O'neal's, Al Harrington's, and Eddy Curry's post up moves. By the time he gets to you guys, he might be a player to seriously consider. Remember that Ben Wallace and Brad Miller went undrafted and they are currently two of the best centers in the league.


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

Avalanche said:


> i just dont understand why your adement on trying to get this done in one deal, its not necissary.
> 
> Jefferson has pretty stats with Kidd setting him up, hes an above average SF and thats all, randolph morris is not a 1st round talent IMO.
> 
> my response to the JO and KG trade rumors is..... minny needs to try and get JO, rickys expiring and the first round pick would be a start.


During the inital season when Kenyon Martin got traded and Kidd was injuried, Jefferson proved to be capable of playing much better than first advertised. I've been able to catch most Net games over the past 6 years and was also surprised by that outburst because like Kenyon Martin, I thought he was completely reliant on Jason Kidd. I turned out to be wrong because he played like a franchise player until he himself got injuried. Still, it is all depedent on situation and I do not personally believe he is a player you build around but can use him as your 2nd tier player next to a star.


I lke your idea for JO and think it can work. Don't you think that you guys would be better served with Ron Artest considering how solid both Mark Blount and Craig Smith played for you guys down the second stretch of the season?


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

TwinkieFoot said:


> If you move them in a multi-team deal then you maximize the number of players involved and thus maximize the number of assets you can acquire. Considering your situation, that is exactly the situation the Wolves need to be in, in case they move Garnett because you don't have very much of anything else to play with.


the thing is the only piece of use to the wolves is the draft pick, bynum and lee both end up with the pacers... 
minny could do a straight swap with a team like boston and get a lot more in return

but when all is said and done Garnett still isnt moving IMO


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

TwinkieFoot said:


> During the inital season when Kenyon Martin got traded and Kidd was injuried, Jefferson proved to be capable of playing much better than first advertised. I've been able to catch most Net games over the past 6 years and was also surprised by that outburst because like Kenyon Martin, I thought he was completely reliant on Jason Kidd. I turned out to be wrong because he played like a franchise player until he himself got injuried. Still, it is all depedent on situation and I do not personally believe he is a player you build around but can use him as your 2nd tier player next to a star.
> 
> 
> I lke your idea for JO and think it can work. Don't you think that you guys would be better served with Ron Artest considering how solid both Mark Blount and Craig Smith played for you guys down the second stretch of the season?


Blount and Smith were solid yeah, and were better than most of us expected, however they dont have a defensive precence we need next to KG which JO proved he could do this season, its not a perfect fit but talent wise its a great second option and probably the best front line in the league.

now artest i personally think that we could throw ricky davis' expiring at them and hope for the best, and i would love to have artest even with all the issues... however taylor doesnt want guys with bad character issues here so i dont see it happening.


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

Avalanche said:


> Blount and Smith were solid yeah, and were better than most of us expected, however they dont have a defensive precence we need next to KG which JO proved he could do this season, its not a perfect fit but talent wise its a great second option and probably the best front line in the league.
> 
> now artest i personally think that we could throw ricky davis' expiring at them and hope for the best, and i would love to have artest even with all the issues... however taylor doesnt want guys with bad character issues here so i dont see it happening.


Bad character? You guys brought in Latrell Sprewell and you don't get much more bad character than that, LOL. Anyway, I understand what you mean but I do not believe Artest is necessarily a bad character person. I think that his main problem is the fact that he has something seriously wrong with him. The thing is though that I believe some sort of "big brother" kind of influence would help him out alot and a guy like Garnett certainly seems to have the temperment to do so. I think Artest has been ostericized for so long that he needs to feel like he belongs and is accepted from someone and I believe only an older influence can do that. I also believe that given his talent, you need to have someone on the team that clearly is the leader and clearly the better player or else he'll step right over anyone (see the Pacers and Kings). I see the Wolves because of Garnett being one of the few teams that might be able to harness Artest's raw abilities.

Still, I think the JO deal makes you better because his back to the basket game provides greater spacing on the floor and a more convential inside-outside game. I think that would provide a more comfortable environment for a guy like Marko Jaric (who is a solid player) because it provides him with greater spacing on the floor and gives him a relatively solid target to kick it too in the post. Other guys like Mike James, Troy Hudson, etc. become a hell of alot more relevant as well because they all can shoot the ball.


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

TwinkieFoot said:


> Bad character? You guys brought in Latrell Sprewell and you don't get much more bad character than that, LOL. Anyway, I understand what you mean but I do not believe Artest is necessarily a bad character person. I think that his main problem is the fact that he has something seriously wrong with him. The thing is though that I believe some sort of "big brother" kind of influence would help him out alot and a guy like Garnett certainly seems to have the temperment to do so. I think Artest has been ostericized for so long that he needs to feel like he belongs and is accepted from someone and I believe only an older influence can do that. I also believe that given his talent, you need to have someone on the team that clearly is the leader and clearly the better player or else he'll step right over anyone (see the Pacers and Kings). I see the Wolves because of Garnett being one of the few teams that might be able to harness Artest's raw abilities.
> 
> Still, I think the JO deal makes you better because his back to the basket game provides greater spacing on the floor and a more convential inside-outside game. I think that would provide a more comfortable environment for a guy like Marko Jaric (who is a solid player) because it provides him with greater spacing on the floor and gives him a relatively solid target to kick it too in the post. Other guys like Mike James, Troy Hudson, etc. become a hell of alot more relevant as well because they all can shoot the ball.


True, we brought in spree.... and davis for that matter (although his issues were always WAY overblown) , im not sure how recently taylor made the statement about bad character guys though... although if there is someone who brings baggage to a team now its ron artest, whether Garnett could straighten him out im unsure, but is it worth a try? definately.
im not sure what exactly the kings are after, i mean if we could give them hassel/smith/2nd rounder for artest or something of the like we could pursue JO aswell.
Artest/Garnett/Oneil up front.... yeah ok now im dreaming.

i think when all is said and done JO ends up on the lakers and Garnett stays in minny


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