# Sam Smith: Corey Maggette for Luol Deng?



## kulaz3000 (May 3, 2006)

> This is going to be a tough season for me. I believe the Bulls are going to be very good. I've already said they could win 55 to 60 games. So why would you want to make any trades with that kind of team?
> 
> Well, with a half-dozen new rotation players, there are no assurances that the Bulls will be as good as I believe. And it's not like the main changes—adding Ben Wallace, P.J. Brown and two rookies—will add any scoring in a league that is tilting to offense.
> 
> ...


rest of the article..
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune...8smith,1,5842110.column?coll=cs-bulls-utility


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## kulaz3000 (May 3, 2006)

> Wed, 29 Mar 2006
> 
> *Kulaz3000*: No matter how much i love Ben Gordon, he is too short to be a
> superstar shooting gaurd in this leauge, though he may give you spurts of
> ...


email one with sam smith


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## kulaz3000 (May 3, 2006)

> Wed, 29 Mar 2006
> 
> *Kulaz3000*: I think my point is exactly that, we need that heads down take charge
> type of player like Maggette. I think thats what we're missing with
> ...


email two with sam smith.


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## kulaz3000 (May 3, 2006)

Sam Smith! You Owe Me!! Get Your Own Ideas, espically after rejecting mine!


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## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

You should read his signature

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Please Note: All submissions become the property of Sam Smith and cannot be individually acknowledged and will be eligible for inclusion in all future articles.

Click to expand...

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## lougehrig (Mar 1, 2005)

Haha. What does that do for us? Don't we have two good shooting guards already?


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## El Chapu (Oct 23, 2004)

Deng trade value is low right now (in comparison to what he could net us if he performs as expected).


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## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

Hate it.


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

BOOOOOOoo

And as far as Ben being to short to be a superstar SG, tell that to A.I.


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## El Chapu (Oct 23, 2004)

AI gets a lot to the line and busts his a** on D, or so it seems sometimes. Always up there in the steals department. Plays banged up. He is carrying a team, something Little Ben wont be doing.


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## Jim Ian (Aug 6, 2002)

El Chapu said:


> ... carrying a team, something Little Ben wont be doing.



If your speaking of Ben Gordon, he carried the Bulls in 2004. They wouldn't have sniffed the playoffs without his clutch shooting in the 4th quarters.


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## Bullsky (Jun 11, 2006)

People really need to stop trying to trade players before the season even starts.


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## Bulls4Life (Nov 13, 2002)

:krazy:


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## garnett (May 13, 2003)

I don't think Maggette has much jib, and along with his injury problems I'd stay away from him. Especially if it costs us Deng.


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## fleetwood macbull (Jan 23, 2004)

garnett said:


> I don't think Maggette has much jib, and along with his injury problems I'd stay away from him. Especially if it costs us Deng.


nah hes OK. Maggette is actually one of the hardest working players in the NBA, and he plays pretty hard too. His Jib is great. Maggette is one one my favorite players.

Hes not as good as Deng _could_ be though....... as an all around player. If the Bulls make a trade for a scorer, it would be for a big one. 

Sam was Ok for a while, but he's back to the mindless trade proposals now. This is an impatient deal


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## El Chapu (Oct 23, 2004)

Jim Ian said:


> If your speaking of Ben Gordon, he carried the Bulls in 2004. They wouldn't have sniffed the playoffs without his clutch shooting in the 4th quarters.


I dont agree, especially on a limited team like the Bulls. It wasnt about one player. And if the Bulls won close games, they had to keep them close and I doubt Gordon and his 15ppg did the job during an entire game and an entire season, most importantly. All-Stars are about one season long, not games or 4th quarters-


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## jbulls (Aug 31, 2005)

I like Maggette, and advocated dealing for him last season, but I don't like this much now. If Sefolosha can play, I think Gordon ought to be here for the long haul. Maggette is a tremendously efficient offensive player but with Thabo on board he strikes me as redundant here. Maggette thrives on isolation plays (doesn't really slash to the basket without the ball in his hands) and by all accounts doesn't have great recall of sets. I liked the idea of getting him cheap from LA when he was in Dunleavy's doghouse and we needed a big guard, but by all accounts we've got one and I'm not sure I ever would've liked the idea of giving up an asset like Deng to get him. Pass.


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## Salvaged Ship (Jul 10, 2002)

Sorry, but Sam Smith actually gets paid to write this garbage? Trade Deng plus others for another shooting guard who will struggle for minutes? What is this guy thinking?

Maggette has proven zero. Neither has Deng. Deng is younger. Deng has the good attitude. Deng makes less. Deng actually has a position and minutes to play. Another shooting guard? Sam Smith should write for the National Enquirer.


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## gregorius (Apr 26, 2005)

I like Mags but he plays worse D than Gordon at the Sg position....and Deng will be a far more significant NBA player than Corey anyway..

i say stick


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## McBulls (Apr 28, 2005)

Sam Smith needs to buy a calendar and ration out the number of stupid trade proposals he publishes to say, one per month. Another disipline he should adopt is to talk to someone, anyone, in the NBA about the wisdom of the trade so he can quote an "unnamed source" as support for the idea.

This guy suggested trading Scottie Pippen for practically every player in the NBA during the Bulls championship runs. You would think that he would have learned. Most of his readers have. 

The sad thing about Smith is that he is one of the most knowledgeable reporters on the game, but his expertise is compromised by routinely turning out formulaic pieces like this. Why not write an investigative report on the new ball, instead of this drivel?


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## taurus515th (Oct 13, 2005)

i dont like this trade. since we have made a lot of offseason moves which i feel wont hurt us because our offseason moves were improvements but i feel getting rid of a core player would really hurt us. also in this trade our team is getting smaller. right now the only player we need is a decent post-player and id only be willing to give up Michael Sweetney, Malik Allen, Martynas Andriuskevicius, and our 2007 PICKS for that post-player.


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

I'm not a huge Maggette fan, and I'm sure this is nothing more than Sam Smith blowing hot air, but there'd be one undeniable positive of having him on the Bulls -- the guy practically lives at the free-throw line. Many of us complain that there are players who can't be touched without getting the benefit of a whistle -- he's one of them. 

I think having a player like Maggette would make the Bulls' offense much, much more diversified and potent, especially in half-court and playoff situations. He is not a great individual defender, but the Bulls team defense could certainly compensate for that.


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## T.Shock (Feb 11, 2003)

Don't like it and don't hate it. Maggette does get to the line a lot more and brings more of a guard skill set than Deng does, and perhaps if the Bulls are mired at .500 at the deadline, then I'd revisit the concept, but for right now, I couldn't bring myself to do it.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

I'm not seeing the logic of this one. Why trade one SF for another one? It's also pretty unclear Maggette would even start here, or that he's better than Deng. And he's been hurt a lot.


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

MikeDC said:


> I'm not seeing the logic of this one. Why trade one SF for another one? It's also pretty unclear Maggette would even start here, or that he's better than Deng. And he's been hurt a lot.


He's not better than Deng, and definintely WON'T be. LOL If he were, he'd be starting instead of riding the bench this far along in his career


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## L.O.B (Jun 13, 2002)

The way I read the article Sam Smith is pitching this trade so they can resign, Kirk and Nocioni. How do you save money by aquiring Maggette who is owed 23 million of three years vs Deng who could be wrapped up for 10 million over the next 3 if you extend to him a qualifying offer ?


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## BULLHITTER (Dec 6, 2005)

there's simply no logical reason to entertain a maggette acquisition at this juncture. paxson wanted to get longer and more athletic, which with the two rookies he's done. the bull also has 4 players capable of scoring 20+ points on a given night, so i'm still puzzled why there's doubt about the bulls ability to score.

i like maggette and in years past prior to reaching this point in the team's development, he would have been a nice idea and a certain directional shift; but right now deng's value (to the bull at least) is greater (by a considerable margin, imo) that what maggette could bring to the table for the bull the way the team is made up now.


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## Brothaman33 (Feb 21, 2006)

Magette Stats:
2006, 29.6 MPG, 2.1 Assists, 5.3 RPG, 17.8 PPG that was in 32 games
he averaged 22.2 last year is 66 games, and 20.7 the year before that in 73 games

I think Sam Smith is an idiot like the rest of you , but I dont think your giving Maggette enough credit, i may be on the other side of this but I would consider Deng for Maggette. Maggette is a 20 PPG guy, yes Deng may bust out some time, he probably will but right now your getting a 20 PPG scorer who has only been in the league 7 years for a young forward when we already cant find time for him and Nocioni.

Id play Maggette at the three, Wallace, Brown, Maggette, Gordon, Hinrich
We would definetly have a more offensive lineup. With what wee have now were putting most of the scoring on hinrich who usually has to guard their best player because Gordon is undersized, The same will still be a problem but we would just have more scoring options. Nocioni would still come off the bench and play big minutes. Im just saying i see what the upside might be to this.


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## L.O.B (Jun 13, 2002)

Brothaman33 said:


> I think Sam Smith is an idiot like the rest of you


Nice way to make friends or is it just bad grammar?


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## Showtyme (Jun 24, 2002)

Sam Smith, get a life.

Now if the trade were for Shaun Livingston AND Maggette, and we gave up Duhon and Deng, I'd maybe think about it. Livingston is a serious stud, forget about redundancy at PG.

But otherwise, please. What the heck is this garbage.


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## McBulls (Apr 28, 2005)

Showtyme said:


> Now if the trade were for Shaun Livingston AND Maggette, and we gave up Duhon and Deng, I'd maybe think about it. Livingston is a serious stud, forget about redundancy at PG.


The only trades with the Clipps worth thinking about are those that include either Kamen or Brand, and I doubt that either team has any inclination to try to work something out along those lines at this time.


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## Weasel (Oct 18, 2003)

Showtyme said:


> Sam Smith, get a life.
> 
> Now if the trade were for Shaun Livingston AND Maggette, and we gave up Duhon and Deng, I'd maybe think about it. Livingston is a serious stud, forget about redundancy at PG.
> 
> But otherwise, please. What the heck is this garbage.



I don't understand why you say Sam Smith's trade offer is garbage when you think Livingston and Maggette for Deng and Duhon is fair.


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## Bulls rock your socks (Jun 29, 2006)

i think that would a good trade sorta. duhon is a better overall pg then livingston. but livingston is like 6'7 and that would help our back court height. and deng i like wat he does on both ends of the floor and he plays defense. maggette is a good offensive weapon doesnt play defense. is its kinda a 50 50 type of thing. but it would be kool for them to play here being there from illinois.


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## Weasel (Oct 18, 2003)

Bulls rock your socks said:


> duhon is a better overall pg then livingston.



Since when?...


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## Hustle (Dec 17, 2003)

Weasel said:


> Since when?...


It started when Du picked up a ball and should remain until Livingston surpasses him. I think he will but Livingston fans are really out of their mind if they think he has proved anything yet.

And I will pass on Maggette, Deng has way too much promise, and Maggette has one too many question marks.


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## Weasel (Oct 18, 2003)

Hustle said:


> It started when Du picked up a ball and should remain until Livingston surpasses him. I think he will but Livingston fans are really out of their mind if they think he has proved anything yet.


I hate to deter this thread but Duhon hasn't proved anything either so it is not fair to say Duhon is better or that a trade where Livingston goes for Duhon isn't laughable. Maggette + Livingston would have netted Pierce last season, reports confirm this. Clippers didn't want to give up Livingston so why would they want to now for two less talented players? Also where did I say Livingston has proved anything? You are putting words in my mouth.


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## Hustle (Dec 17, 2003)

Weasel said:


> I hate to deter this thread but Duhon hasn't proved anything either so it is not fair to say Duhon is better or that a trade where Livingston goes for Duhon isn't laughable. Maggette + Livingston would have netted Pierce last season, reports confirm this. Clippers didn't want to give up Livingston so why would they want to now for two less talented players? Also where did I say Livingston has proved anything? You are putting words in my mouth.


I was replying to


> *Originally Posted by Bulls rock your socks*
> 
> duhon is a better overall pg then livingston.





> *Weasel*
> 
> Since when?...


I think it is perfectly fair to say Duhon has had a better career thus far. Livingston certainly has more trade value and looks to be better sooner than later but not yet.


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## Brothaman33 (Feb 21, 2006)

Livingston and Maggette for Deng and Duhon?
i would have to accept that.


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## McBulls (Apr 28, 2005)

Weasel said:


> I hate to deter this thread but Duhon hasn't proved anything either so it is not fair to say Duhon is better or that a trade where Livingston goes for Duhon isn't laughable. Maggette + Livingston would have netted Pierce last season, reports confirm this. Clippers didn't want to give up Livingston so why would they want to now for two less talented players? Also where did I say Livingston has proved anything? You are putting words in my mouth.


Maybe Livingston will be a great player some day. Maybe not. Right now Duhon is the better point guard, by any measure. Maybe that assessment will change after the end of this season, maybe not. 

Bulls fans are tainted by the Jamal Crawford "potential" experience. Sometimes waiting for potential of a tall, skinny teenage multimillioniare to be realized can be a bit like waiting for Godot.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

I hate it, too.

Maggette does get to the line, but he tends to stagnate the offense when he gets the ball (aka, a black hole). Maybe not the worst black hole in the league, but there are far better players at keeping crisp ball movement within the offense while still scoring their 20 ppg. 

Meanwhile, we've heard that Deng is in phenomenal shape and he's entering that long-awaited 3rd season. Tons of guys bust out in their 3rd season. Deng could be a 20 ppg scorer in the making himself, with a far more well-rounded game.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

McBulls said:


> Bulls fans are tainted by the Jamal Crawford "potential" experience. Sometimes waiting for potential of a tall, skinny teenage multimillioniare to be realized can be a bit like waiting for Godot.


Per the mods: JC is now OT and should not be discussed.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

GB said:


> Per the mods: JC is now OT and should not be discussed.



I'd like to see where you get that from my post, which says nothing of the sort.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

jnrjr79 said:


> I'd like to see where you get that from my post, which says nothing of the sort.



What is the "this" you're talking about in your post?

Surely not the KH-management golden child...which the JC/KH discussion has far outpaced and overshadowed.

You tell me then: Whats being beaten to death if not the continuing love and discussion of and for JC?


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## rosenthall (Aug 1, 2002)

Well, I don't hate this trade, like the way a lot of you guys are poo-pooing it, but I think I'd pass.

From a basketball standpoint, I think it would make more sense to keep Luol. And from a financial standpoint, if we're looking to save money longterm, I think I'd rather us keep our nose out of the powder and use our rookie contract guys to acquire someone like Pau Gasol or Kevin Garnett.


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## 7RINGS? (Sep 28, 2004)

Same Old SAM. This guy really needs to set his pen down and try thinking before writing. If he was a rapper he would be Vanilla Ice all the way. :banana: Sorry writing skills and a short carrer!!!!


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## DengNabbit (Feb 23, 2005)

GB said:


> Per the mods: JC is now OT and should not be discussed.


this is stupid. the fact JC was trade says a lot about what our franchise is doing these days, and it helped make possible some of the moves we've made in the last few years. plenty relevant.


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## Bulls rock your socks (Jun 29, 2006)

Weasel said:


> Since when?...


since hes a better 3 point shooter, better defender, tough minded, and good floor leader. livingston is just tall for a pg and he can pass better


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## Showtyme (Jun 24, 2002)

Maggette for Deng is a bad trade, because Deng is probably going to be a better all-around player and looks like he might be less chronic-like injury prone. Maggette has played more than 70 games twice in his seven-year career. Looks a lot like the late years in Kukoc's career. I still love a healthy Maggette; I think he's almost like a J-Rich lite, and I think J-Rich is possibly STILL one of the most underrated shooting guards in the league. Maggette has great form when he plays on top of his game, and could have benefited greatly from better coaching early in his career.

That being said, I (and I'm certainly not alone) speculate that Shaun Livingston may join the next generation of elite point guards. He's got great moves, great quickness, nice athleticism, and a certain natural passing vision. So far, he hasn't had terrible character issues or a bad work ethic that have kept him off the floor, so I'd say with average NBA experience and seasoning, combined with his natural talent, he's bound to be at least a top 10 point guard, with the ability to be a top-4 point.

Hinrich runs the offense and makes some nice plays sometimes but with a creative mind like Livingston coming off the bench and developing behind Hinrich, I'd absolutely love it. Then we'd be in a position to trade Livingston again, after his value goes up, and get something else. Or maybe (gasp) trade KH and get something really awesome in return (because he's worth a whole lot these days, I think).

So Deng > Maggette, but Livingston much > Duhon, so I'd say the trade would at least be something to consider in terms of talent. In terms of fit, I'd rather keep who we've got.

Maggette + Kaman + maybe a 2nd rounder or something for Deng + Tyrus is another trade I'd have to consider. Tyrus might become something incredibly special but Kaman is an extremely solid talent at his position, and still young. Imagine Hinrich/Gordon/Noch/Wallace/Kaman and Maggette off the bench?!


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## Weasel (Oct 18, 2003)

Bulls rock your socks said:


> since hes a better 3 point shooter, better defender, tough minded, and good floor leader. livingston is just tall for a pg and he can pass better



Yup Livingston is a tall stiff who can only pass. 

If that is your assessment of him you have never watched him play.


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## ExtremeBrigs (Jul 20, 2006)

Hey guys, interesting email I got from a reader who's a Clippers fan that looks at this trade from LA's point of view. Apparently, it's an equally stupid idea for them, too:



> I’m a Clips/Rocket fan and i know that Sam Smith can get crazy with his trade proposal, but i can see what he’s trying to do. Preserve cap room to be able to retain Kirk and Nocio. All four Bulls free agents (Kirk, Nocio, Deng, and Gordon) appear to be seeking oodles and oodles of money and Corey Maggette could be a very good compensation prize for what seems like a pittance to what Luol Deng may be seeking. But there is no guarantee that the Clippers would do this deal. The Clips still have to retain Chris Kaman and Shaun Livingston who both may be seeking close to max deals. If Deng is seeking a deal in the $50 million range then the Clippers won't be able to afford to keep him. Another thing to consider is that this year 2007 draft is loaded with great forwards and the Clippers will most likely have two draft picks. (Their own and Minnesota ’s) So maybe it would be in the Clippers best interest to trade Maggette for an expiring contract and a future draft pick….


Hadn't thought of it that way!


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## Showtyme (Jun 24, 2002)

ExtremeBrigs said:


> Hey guys, interesting email I got from a reader who's a Clippers fan that looks at this trade from LA's point of view. Apparently, it's an equally stupid idea for them, too:
> 
> 
> 
> Hadn't thought of it that way!


The Dreaded Cap Space.

If our team isn't putting up huge numbers by the trade deadline this year, I think a deal like this might make sense. Reinsdorf pays for contenders, but doesn't shell out for anything less.

If we look like one of the best 5 teams in the NBA, then I don't think we'll have any problems paying our players. But if we don't, then I think the "flexibility" and "options" talk will remain while we try to improve the talent on our team.

And I don't know if anyone noticed, but these guys running out of years on their contracts doesn't only mean we have to re-up them; it means our window for trading them is quickly closing. Not that you can't trade a bigger contract, but some team might want to get a hold of the talents but aren't willing to offer anything other than decent, cheap players and draft picks. So their trade values are at all-time highs, possibly CAREER highs. The Potential factor and the Cheap Contract factor combine for the ultimate trade value.

So we're either going to see a really big deal to improve our team this year (and I think I've seen Pax imply that such a possibility may exist), or we're going to see a really great team this year. Both options are pretty good, in my book, and that's sort of why fans benefit from having a high-quality GM.

Reinsdorf's Cap Space concerns are annoying, but hopefully nothing more than a "setback" will strike the roster this year.


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## theyoungsrm (May 23, 2003)

the Clippers would never ever ever deal Maggette and Livingston for Duhon and Deng. Never ever, ever. Ever Ever Ever. The idea that someone is running around talking about Duhon being better is wayyyy too drunk offa that Bulls kool-aid.

Livingston is the truth. While Duhon has probably met his ceiling, Livingston will probably be in that Paul/Felton/Williams class in five years. Hell, I'd take him now. 

And although might end up a more all-around player, we'd be luck to have Deng develop into the offensive player Magette is now. As a Bulls fan, I'd stay away from him because of the health issues. But it that wasn't a factor I pull the trigger and say bye-bye to Noci. Hinrich, Gordon, and Maggette would probably be a top 3, backcourt in the league


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

Did someone here actually ENTERTAIN the idea that they'd trade Livingston!? C'mon Bulls fans.


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## McBulls (Apr 28, 2005)

theyoungsrm said:


> the Clippers would never ever ever deal Maggette and Livingston for Duhon and Deng. Never ever, ever. Ever Ever Ever. The idea that someone is running around talking about Duhon being better is wayyyy too drunk offa that Bulls kool-aid.
> 
> Livingston is the truth. While Duhon has probably met his ceiling, Livingston will probably be in that Paul/Felton/Williams class in five years. Hell, I'd take him now.
> 
> And although might end up a more all-around player, we'd be luck to have Deng develop into the offensive player Magette is now. As a Bulls fan, I'd stay away from him because of the health issues. But it that wasn't a factor I pull the trigger and say bye-bye to Noci. Hinrich, Gordon, and Maggette would probably be a top 3, backcourt in the league


Before giving Livingston credit for turning water into wine, feeding his team for a season with two loaves and a fish and relegating those who think Duhon might be a better point guard this season to a trip to a local comet, it would be good to see this second coming of Magic Johnson surpass Duhon in at least one aspect of the game. Both players have been in the NBA two years. Last season Duhon was the better shooter, the better defender, made more assists, more rebounds, more steals and fewer turnovers. Livingston has made one (count 'em 1.0) 3 point shots in his career so far, Duhon has made nearly 200. Last I checked that's something guards are expected to do in the NBA -- particularly point guards.

Maybe, maybe Livingston will emerge this year from his tomb of mediocrity and be the savior of the Clips -- but it takes religious faith to believe it.


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## theyoungsrm (May 23, 2003)

McBulls said:


> Before giving Livingston credit for turning water into wine, feeding his team for a season with two loaves and a fish and relegating those who think Duhon might be a better point guard this season to a trip to a local comet, it would be good to see this second coming of Magic Johnson surpass Duhon in at least one aspect of the game. Both players have been in the NBA two years. Last season Duhon was the better shooter, the better defender, made more assists, more rebounds, more steals and fewer turnovers. Livingston has made one (count 'em 1.0) 3 point shots in his career so far, Duhon has made nearly 200. Last I checked that's something guards are expected to do in the NBA -- particularly point guards.
> 
> Maybe, maybe Livingston will emerge this year from his tomb of mediocrity and be the savior of the Clips -- but it takes religious faith to believe it.


Duhon outproduced Shawn Livingston in the two years they've been in the league. Aside from the fact that Duhon has tons more basketball schooling from Duke than Livingston got from Central Illinois high school basketball, the idea that anyone would take Chris Duhon over Shawn Livingston is ridicous and speaks to the massive homerism by Bulls fans on this board.

In fact, if you extend you're analysis to the "stats prove Duhon is a better player", then there is no way that the Clips would ever ever ever entertain Maggette for Deng. But in the real world (outside of being a slave to stats), that has some understanding of context, people would realize that Deng potential at least somewhat closes the gap between the two players. 

The same situation exist between Duhon and Livingston, no NBA scout or general manager not loaded on 17 shots of Goldschager and Sambuca would take Duhon over Livingston now or in the future based on statistics gathered from very limited production.


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