# Game Thread: Bulls @ Raptors, Sunday 4/8 at 5:00 p.m. CST, CSN Chicago



## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

Let's hold on to the #2 seed!


Red-Hot Bulls and Raptors Face Off
By MATT BECKER, STATS Writer
Posted Apr 8 2007 9:38AM


Raptors Home
Bulls Home
2006-07 Stats at a Glance
The Toronto Raptors have come a long way from the start of the season, and were able to clinch their first division title with some help from the Chicago Bulls.

The Bulls also are playing considerably better then they were at the season's outset and are aiming for one of the top seeds in the Eastern Conference.

These two red-hot teams meet at the Air Canada Centre on Sunday as Chicago tries to avenge a rare loss to the Raptors.

Toronto (43-33) beat Philadelphia 94-85 on Friday, but didn't clinch the Atlantic Division until the Bulls (46-31) defeated New Jersey 105-74 later in the night.

"You come to all of these arenas and they have division championship banners up in the rafters," Raptors coach Sam Mitchell said. "If you are trying to start a culture of winning, these guys need to start seeing the fruits of their labor and those things are important."

Although Toronto is the only team in the East to have wrapped up a division title, it still trails Chicago in the conference standings.

The second-place Bulls are 1 1/2 games ahead of the Raptors, and three games back of East-leading Detroit, whom they beat 106-88 on Wednesday. Toronto is one game ahead of Atlantic Division-leading Miami, and the fourth seed will likely be without home-court advantage in the playoffs.

Chicago also has little room for error because it shares the same record with Cleveland, though the Bulls own the tiebreaker and that would leave the Cavaliers with the fifth seed.

Neither Chicago nor Toronto looked like it would be competing for one of the top seeds in the East early this season. The Bulls lost nine of their first 12 games while the Raptors opened 2-8.

Both teams have been playing some of their best basketball of the season lately, though, as Chicago has won seven of eight and Toronto has won seven of nine.

"I think it means a lot, especially with the quick turnaround that we've had this year," Raptors forward Chris Bosh said of winning a division title. "It's a great thing. This team overcame a lot of adversity early. Now we have to look ahead to clinching that third spot."

Bosh had 23 points and 13 rebounds in Friday's win over the 76ers, and is averaging 27.2 points and 12.8 boards in his last five games.

The two-time All-Star had 25 points and 14 rebounds in a 112-111 win at Chicago on Feb. 13, as the Raptors snapped a 15-game losing streak in the series.

The Bulls still have won seven straight at the Air Canada Centre since a 103-89 defeat on Dec. 6, 2002. They shot 59.7 percent from the floor in their 107-97 win in Toronto on Dec. 29.

Chicago's Luol Deng scored 30 points in February's loss to the Raptors, and is averaging 26.7 points on 64.9 percent shooting against them this season.

Deng had 24 points and 12 rebounds in the win over the Nets on Friday, and is averaging 23.7 points in his last six games.

The Bulls beat New Jersey despite being without center Ben Wallace (sinus inflammation), as well as reserve forwards Tyrus Thomas (flu), Andres Nocioni (foot) and Adrian Griffin (back spasms).

"I guess it's a good thing to have ... guys that when called upon step up," said Kirk Hinrich, who scored 20 points. "That's kind of who we are, a team that relies on each other, including when guys are out, we rely on people to step up and we've been able to do that the last couple of games."

Nocioni, who is averaging 14.8 points, has missed 28 games with plantar fasciitis but is expected to play in this game. Wallace and Thomas also are likely to return.

Red-Hot Bulls and Raptors Face Off
By MATT BECKER, STATS Writer=
Posted Apr 8 2007 9:38AM
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Raptors Home
Bulls Home
2006-07 Stats at a Glance
The Toronto Raptors have come a long way from the start of the season, and were able to clinch their first division title with some help from the Chicago Bulls.

The Bulls also are playing considerably better then they were at the season's outset and are aiming for one of the top seeds in the Eastern Conference.

These two red-hot teams meet at the Air Canada Centre on Sunday as Chicago tries to avenge a rare loss to the Raptors.

Toronto (43-33) beat Philadelphia 94-85 on Friday, but didn't clinch the Atlantic Division until the Bulls (46-31) defeated New Jersey 105-74 later in the night.

"You come to all of these arenas and they have division championship banners up in the rafters," Raptors coach Sam Mitchell said. "If you are trying to start a culture of winning, these guys need to start seeing the fruits of their labor and those things are important."

Although Toronto is the only team in the East to have wrapped up a division title, it still trails Chicago in the conference standings.

The second-place Bulls are 1 1/2 games ahead of the Raptors, and three games back of East-leading Detroit, whom they beat 106-88 on Wednesday. Toronto is one game ahead of Atlantic Division-leading Miami, and the fourth seed will likely be without home-court advantage in the playoffs.

Chicago also has little room for error because it shares the same record with Cleveland, though the Bulls own the tiebreaker and that would leave the Cavaliers with the fifth seed.

Neither Chicago nor Toronto looked like it would be competing for one of the top seeds in the East early this season. The Bulls lost nine of their first 12 games while the Raptors opened 2-8.

Both teams have been playing some of their best basketball of the season lately, though, as Chicago has won seven of eight and Toronto has won seven of nine.

"I think it means a lot, especially with the quick turnaround that we've had this year," Raptors forward Chris Bosh said of winning a division title. "It's a great thing. This team overcame a lot of adversity early. Now we have to look ahead to clinching that third spot."

Bosh had 23 points and 13 rebounds in Friday's win over the 76ers, and is averaging 27.2 points and 12.8 boards in his last five games.

The two-time All-Star had 25 points and 14 rebounds in a 112-111 win at Chicago on Feb. 13, as the Raptors snapped a 15-game losing streak in the series.

The Bulls still have won seven straight at the Air Canada Centre since a 103-89 defeat on Dec. 6, 2002. They shot 59.7 percent from the floor in their 107-97 win in Toronto on Dec. 29.

Chicago's Luol Deng scored 30 points in February's loss to the Raptors, and is averaging 26.7 points on 64.9 percent shooting against them this season.

Deng had 24 points and 12 rebounds in the win over the Nets on Friday, and is averaging 23.7 points in his last six games.

The Bulls beat New Jersey despite being without center Ben Wallace (sinus inflammation), as well as reserve forwards Tyrus Thomas (flu), Andres Nocioni (foot) and Adrian Griffin (back spasms).

"I guess it's a good thing to have ... guys that when called upon step up," said Kirk Hinrich, who scored 20 points. "That's kind of who we are, a team that relies on each other, including when guys are out, we rely on people to step up and we've been able to do that the last couple of games."

Nocioni, who is averaging 14.8 points, has missed 28 games with plantar fasciitis but is expected to play in this game. Wallace and Thomas also are likely to return.

http://www.nba.com/games/20070408/CHITOR/preview.html



2006-07 Stats at a Glance
@	
News | Players | Stats | Schedule News | Players | Stats | Schedule
Chicago Bulls
Record:	46 - 31 (.597)
Standings:	Second, Central
At Home:	29 - 10
At Road:	17 - 21
Streak:	W 3

Toronto Raptors
Record:	43 - 33 (.566)
Standings:	First, Atlantic
At Home:	27 - 10
At Road:	16 - 23
Streak:	W 2
Season 
PPG: 98.9	Opp PPG: 94.3
FG%:	.457	Opp FG%:	.438
RPG: 43.6	Opp RPG: 40.9

Season 
PPG: 99.3	Opp PPG: 98.4
FG%:	.464	Opp FG%:	.462
RPG: 39.4	Opp RPG: 42.6
Back to Top
Player	G	PPG	RPG	APG
Gordon, B	77	21.3 3.1 3.6
Deng, L	77	19.1 7.1 2.5
Hinrich, K	75	16.7 3.5 6.2
Nocioni, A	48	14.8 5.9 1.1
Duhon, C	73 7.2 2.2 4.0
Wallace, B	72 6.4	10.8 2.4
Brown, P	67 6.0 4.8 0.6
Thomas, T	67 5.2 3.7 0.5
Allen, M	55 3.9 1.8 0.3
Sefolosha, T	66 3.5 2.1 0.8
Sweetney, M	45 3.3 2.5 0.6
Griffin, A	52 2.5 2.0 1.1
Khryapa, V	32 2.1 1.7 0.7
Barrett, A	6 1.3 0.8 1.2
Head Coach:	Scott Skiles

Player	G	PPG	RPG	APG
Bosh, C	64	22.8	10.7 2.5
Ford, T	69	14.3 3.2 8.0
Parker, A	68	11.7 3.8 2.1
Bargnani, A	64	11.5 3.9 0.8
Dixon, J	75 9.7 2.0 1.6
Peterson, M	67 9.2 3.3 0.7
Calderon, J	71 8.7 1.8 5.0
Garbajosa, J	67 8.5 4.9 1.9
Nesterovic, R	74 6.1 4.5 0.9
Graham, J	75 5.9 3.1 0.5
Humphries, K	54 3.5 2.6 0.2
Martin, D	29 3.0 0.3 1.2
Jackson, L	7 1.9 0.4 0.9
Slokar, U	18 1.1 0.6 0.1
Sow, P	6 0.8 0.5 0.0
Head Coach:	Sam Mitchell


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

_way to game thread!!!_


yeah. i really think the bulls can win out! NO EXCUSES. keep the #2 seed firmly in our grasp. 


:cheer:


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

eh. i liked it better when it was just that one line, jnr!

(tee hee)

meanwhile...isn't the argentinian madman due back today? would be nice to see nocioni on the floor even in controlled minutes.


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## Nocioni (May 23, 2005)

Welcome back Nocioni


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## JRose5 (May 4, 2003)

This would be a nice one to win.
The Cavs are losing to the Pistons by 2 with 4 minutes left. We have to stay on pace in case they win this one.


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## JRose5 (May 4, 2003)

Cavs lose.


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## Mateo (Sep 23, 2006)

This is a must-win for the Bulls. If you win this you'll have a firm grasp on the #2 seed. Bulls and Cavs both have an easy schedule after this, but the Cavs is probably a little easier. If you win, you'll essentially be a game and half ahead of the Cavs (considering the tiebreaker you hold). If you win today and just hold ground the remaining games, you should keep the #2.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

mizenkay said:


> eh. i liked it better when it was just that one line, jnr!
> 
> (tee hee)
> 
> meanwhile...isn't the argentinian madman due back today? would be nice to see nocioni on the floor even in controlled minutes.



Lol, thanks.

I believe he is due back. Shouldn't play too many minutes, but I'm hoping for one good flop.


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## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

Cavs lose so the pressure isn't that big to win tonight's game. I don't think we will either. Toronto's a dominant home team and they'll wanna end their losing streak to us at home. Plus they're getting some of their guys back from injury today.

Raptors 102
Bulls 98


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## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

Biggest game of the year. With the Cavs loss today, if the Bulls win they effectively have a 2 game lead for the 2 seed with 4 to play. 

Due to the tiebreaker, the Cavs would have to gain 2 games on Chicago to overtake them. 

Huge game.


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## Bullsky (Jun 11, 2006)

Noc returning will be great.

GO BULLS!


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## Sham (Dec 2, 2002)

If anyone has a Chicago market online league pass....it's working anyway. Games always do down the stretch. But they block out Milwaukee for some reason.

I don't know why this is, but I'm bloody happy about it.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

Bulls need to block out. Sheesh.


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

Gordon needs to keep shooting and stop driving into double-teams.


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## nitric (Dec 14, 2006)

Doesn't look good. We are missing easy shots and just aren't hitting.


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## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

Sham said:


> If anyone has a Chicago market online league pass....it's working anyway. Games always do down the stretch. But they block out Milwaukee for some reason.
> 
> I don't know why this is, but I'm bloody happy about it.


What are you talking about???


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## chifaninca (May 28, 2002)

Damn you Hinrich. If TT is hurt cause you're not paying attention,,,,,We'll Duhon you


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## chifaninca (May 28, 2002)

PJ has really shown up recently.


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## chifaninca (May 28, 2002)

Thabo is the man....Trade Hinrich! Just kidding


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

it's nocioni time!

and that wasn't kirk's fault, btw.


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## Sham (Dec 2, 2002)

bullybullz said:


> What are you talking about???



Keep reading it until you get it sweetie.


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## chifaninca (May 28, 2002)

Nocioni faked himself out....He got a good chuckle out of that. Let's just stay healthy for the playoffs please.

Good to see Thabo, TT and PJ stepping it up now.

To me it's why I don't buy the argument that you can't win with a prominent rookie. By the end of the season,t he understand the game so much better. Yes, they can hit a wall, but hopefully the other teammates pick up the slack while they work through it.

I believe because we are truly a TEAM and not star dependent we can have a rookie in prominent role and still win.


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## chifaninca (May 28, 2002)

Mize, I was kidding - Thus the Duhon reference. 

Very happy to see us only down by 1 at the end of the first.

It's really fun to watch this team because different guys contribute each game.


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

Gordon's 3rd turnover in 8 minutes.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

Good to see Nocioni in there. Please stay healthy!


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## chifaninca (May 28, 2002)

With Clevlands loss, and a win today by the Bulls, it would give us a two essentially a two game advantage for the #2 seed.


Nocioni with the rebound. Gordon reckless. Still, good to see him attacking.


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## T-Time (Mar 3, 2007)

Thabo is looking good, and so is Tyrus. Lets hope he comes back fine from banging knees with Kirk.


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

chifaninca said:


> Mize, I was kidding - Thus the Duhon reference.
> 
> Very happy to see us only down by 1 at the end of the first.
> 
> It's really fun to watch this team because different guys contribute each game.



:biggrin: 

_i knew that_.

it's so great to see nocioni, isn't it? meanwhile, nocioni will not want to come out now that he's in.

hilarious.


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## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

chifaninca said:


> PJ has really shown up recently.


What else do you expect from him??


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

Starting guards aren't playing very well. Hinrich with another missed shot. Ugh.


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## PowerWoofer (Jan 5, 2006)

Man Chicago sucks out there right now. Just bad basketball.

AND Cleveland lost, so we need to win this game!!!!

DAMN IT! BLOOD ON THE HORNS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

Get Duhon out of there!! Bring back Thabo or Gordon!!


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## Bullsky (Jun 11, 2006)

jnrjr79 said:


> Good to see Nocioni in there. Please stay healthy!


Amen!


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## kulaz3000 (May 3, 2006)

Toronto is really playing like an upcoming team, their energy reminds me of our season 2 seasons ago. They are playing with the intensity and urgency that we dont' consistently play with anymore..

Our team is playing like a team that feels they have Torontos number and not like they should be beating them to the ground.

They better bring some intensity or aggressivness or they are going to lose and lose big..


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

ok roll it. ok freeze it. ok...SHUT UP!

is kirk hurt? ****. 

it's all tyrus' fault.

:smilewink


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## chifaninca (May 28, 2002)

Hinrich's hurt.


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## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

Bullsky said:


> Amen!


Nice to see Ben Gordon get good treatment from the refs!!!


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## Sham (Dec 2, 2002)

mizenkay said:


> ok roll it. ok freeze it. ok...SHUT UP!
> 
> is kirk hurt? ****.
> 
> ...



No, it's Duhon's fault. Don't ever forget that.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

Wow, will that be 38 free throws?


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## Sham (Dec 2, 2002)

Wahey, that got fun!


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## nitric (Dec 14, 2006)

Raptors are just going for threes :| and hitting them


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## chifaninca (May 28, 2002)

What the hell just happened.


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## chifaninca (May 28, 2002)

Is James Posey playing for the raps today?


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

chifaninca said:


> Is James Posey playing for the raps today?



:lol: :lol:


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## chifaninca (May 28, 2002)

Hard foul, flagrant two, but I don't think he was trying to hurt him


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

WTF! ooooh. flagrants. technicals! EJECTIONS! awesome!

wow. mo peterson is a ****ing PUNK. he clotheslined kirk.


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## chifaninca (May 28, 2002)

Ben Wallace really sucks offensively


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## nitric (Dec 14, 2006)

Mo Pete out there to kill Hinrich? Jeez.


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## crimedog (Jun 3, 2003)

did you guys think that warranted an ejection? 

just looking for a chicago perspective. i know he caught contact, but he was clearly going for the ball.


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## nitric (Dec 14, 2006)

chifaninca said:


> Ben Wallace really sucks offensively


He should have dunked it instead of hitting it off glass


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## crimedog (Jun 3, 2003)

mizenkay said:


> WTF! ooooh. flagrants. technicals! EJECTIONS! awesome!
> 
> wow. mo peterson is a ****ing PUNK. he clotheslined kirk.


nevermind. clearly i'm not going to get an impartial perspective.


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## Skylaars (Apr 2, 2003)

how the hell is that an ejection? i've seen harder fouls that don't even get a flagrant.


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## Sham (Dec 2, 2002)

I think that was a bad call on Peterson. I really don't think he meant to hit him in the head/neck. He just sorta did.

*end Billy Packer moment*


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

If you make hard contact around the head/neck, you're gone. It's a simple rule.


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

crimedog said:


> did you guys think that warranted an ejection?
> 
> just looking for a chicago perspective. i know he caught contact, but he was clearly going for the ball.




um, you want a bulls' perspective?

yes!

it was warranted. he clotheslined him. he wasn't going for the ball, but kirk's neck.


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## crimedog (Jun 3, 2003)

mizenkay said:


> um, you want a bulls' perspective?
> 
> yes!
> 
> it was warranted. he clotheslined him. he wasn't going for the ball, but kirk's neck.


he wasn't going for the ball? are you watching the game on the radio?


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

Kirk should have gone a lot harder on that breakaway, however. It looked like he slowed up a bit in order to get his footing right.

Wow...just now he hits a nice turnaround jumper in the lane. Let's hope he and Gordon start connecting.


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

how can i watch the game on the radio?

no. i saw it. i think he was aiming for his head.

so there.


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## Sham (Dec 2, 2002)

Yeah, that PJ Brown on Bosh thing isn't really working out.


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

i sometimes think red kerr forgets where he is.

"watch it"

time for the my little pony glue factory red, sorry.


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## kulaz3000 (May 3, 2006)

crimedog said:


> he wasn't going for the ball? are you watching the game on the radio?



.. whether he was going for the ball or not, he clearly hooked him around the neck, thus the ejection. Its as simple as that..

Regardless, Chicago has to pick up its intensity...


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## crimedog (Jun 3, 2003)

mizenkay said:


> how can i watch the game on the radio?
> 
> no. i saw it. i think he was aiming for his head.
> 
> so there.


well, you're wrong...so there. why would he do that? it's not his fault hinrich stopped midlay up, so the timing got screwed up.

anyway, aside from that...ben gordon is good. and so is chris bosh.


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## nitric (Dec 14, 2006)

Ben Gordon is missing free throws lately..:|


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## Sham (Dec 2, 2002)

OK, he did it. 

GET MY BAT.


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

Beautiful alley-oop from Gordon to Tyrus. Great recognition by Ben.


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

doesn't gordon have some sort of wrist injury that he's playing thru? thus the free throw suckage? didn't i read that someplace?


nice lob to tyrus. 

"watch your head downstairs"

OMG.


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

Ben!


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## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

nitric said:


> Ben Gordon is missing free throws lately..:|


He said he injured his wrist a few games ago. That has to be the reason behind his missed FTs lately. I've noticed his release has looked a bit different.


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## Sham (Dec 2, 2002)

mizenkay said:


> doesn't gordon have some sort of wrist injury that he's playing thru? thus the free throw suckage? didn't i read that someplace?



You did. But apparently it doesn't hinder his 35 footers.


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## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

Pretty lucky to be facing Toronto w/o their two 3pt shooting bigs. They drove us nuts the last time these 2 teams met.


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## kulaz3000 (May 3, 2006)

Thabo is a great rebounding guard/forward. He really goes in amoungst the trees to get alot of defensive rebounds and the thing is he is strong enough to get it agains the other tall timber.

Im glad that Thabo and Tyrus are starting to play more, and making positive contributions with relevant mintues.


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## T-Time (Mar 3, 2007)

Good way to finish the half. TNT (Tyrus and Thabo) have played well this half with their energy and smart play except for Thabo's brainfart there fouling a 3 point shooter. 

I hope we can continue our momentum in the second half and roll away with another win.


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## Bullsky (Jun 11, 2006)

Big three by Ben!

Nice ending to the half for DA BULLS.


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## kulaz3000 (May 3, 2006)

I would love to hear Norm call a game one night, he would be hilarious!


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## Sham (Dec 2, 2002)

Ben Wallace looks flat out knackered tonight. He ran around really enthusiasitcally for three minutes, and then was toast. 

Which is fair enough - I just came off a similar infection and can well equate.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

Go ahead and roll it. Freeze it. Roll it. Freeze it. Roll it. Freeze it.

All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.

REDRUM


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

Sham said:


> enthusiasitcally


expiallidocious. 


:biggrin: 

and yes. norm calling a game would be priceless. :clown:


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## T-Time (Mar 3, 2007)

"roll It," "freeze It" Omg


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## Sham (Dec 2, 2002)

mizenkay said:


> expiallidocious.
> 
> 
> :biggrin:



Oh leave me alone. :naughty:

Actually, speaking of, let's get some exfoliation going up in hurr.


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

Sham said:


> Oh leave me alone. :naughty:
> 
> Actually, speaking of, let's get some exfoliation going up in hurr.




oh you know i _adore_ you.

that just made me think of that.


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## Sham (Dec 2, 2002)

mizenkay said:


> oh you know i _adore_ you.
> 
> that just made me think of that.



You SO know that we should be doing the TV commentary right now. Me and you missy. We'll freeze it and roll it with the best of them.


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## Sham (Dec 2, 2002)

Terrible foul call on PJ there. See, that's why we need a star. We don't get away with enough dropped balls.

Hehe, I said dropped balls.


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## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

Luol needs to realize he doesn't have it tonight and stop hogging the ball. He's single handedly keeping this cold shooting Toronto team in the game.


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## Sham (Dec 2, 2002)

PJ Brown's invoked the Tyson Chander all season long, with the moving screens. It's partly why I'm truly bored of him.


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## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

Ben Wallace needs to DUNK the ****ing ball when he's right below the rim and nobody's near him. What an idiot.


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## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

Gordon must lead the league in shots that go in and out.


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## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

Looks like only Gordon knew there was a game today.


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## Sham (Dec 2, 2002)

One of us is going to get called for a foul on Bosh in a minute.


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## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

Can't believe we're struggling against a team missing 3 of its most important players. I hope this puts the talk of a playoff meeting between these 2 teams being an easy W for the Bulls to rest.


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## Sham (Dec 2, 2002)

That Hinrich GMC Drive advert is too awkward for words.


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## Sham (Dec 2, 2002)

SPMJ said:


> Can't believe we're struggling against a team missing 3 of its most important players. I hope this puts the talk of a playoff meeting between these 2 teams being an easy W for the Bulls to rest.



Cos obviously we've never beaten any quality opposition missing three of our most important players.


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## Sham (Dec 2, 2002)

Deng hits back to back open jumpers, and we're tied again. Better.


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

you'd think they'd figured out not to leave parker open by now.

you'd think.



yay! nocioni's back. come on!


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

Jesus, Du.


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## Sham (Dec 2, 2002)

Kris Humphries is back in, so now I'm feeling much better. Partly because he's sexy, but also because he sucks.


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## kulaz3000 (May 3, 2006)

You got to wonder about Gordons basketball IQ at times. He must some really boneheaded plays over and over. Why he continues to pass in the paint when, and why he continues to drive into the lane barrelling into the middle of nowhere, and why he continues to jump in the air and making stupid passes..


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

Bollocks.


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## Sham (Dec 2, 2002)

jnrjr79 said:


> Jesus, Du.


The two are often comparable.

Oh Jesus bloody Duhon, Dixon did a Gordon.


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## nitric (Dec 14, 2006)

31-17 outscored in the 3rd quarter. This is pretty much over. Our continous 3rd quarter meltdowns :|


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## Sham (Dec 2, 2002)

jnrjr79 said:


> Bollocks.


That's a rep. Anyone invoking the bollocks is an instant hero.


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## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

Another embarassing defensive performance against these much improved Raptors. I DO NOT want to face them in the playoffs. Their ball movement and ability to space the floor really exposes our collapse-in-the-paint style of defense.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

Man, before I go upstairs to put the little one in bed we're ahead by a few and when I come back down we're losing by a lot. ****.


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## kulaz3000 (May 3, 2006)

Im sorry, but i said this after the first quarter, but the Bulls are playing like their record should intimidate Toronto and arn't matching Torontos intensity and aggressiveness.

They are playing with no passion, intensity and no aggressivness. They've really got to pick it up or we're going to lose and lose big.


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

54 mintues until The Sopranos!!


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

Sham said:


> That's a rep. Anyone invoking the bollocks is an instant hero.



Lol, thanks. If only it were under better circumstances.

The Bulls need to put their heads on straight - and fast.


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## crimedog (Jun 3, 2003)

nitric said:


> 31-17 outscored in the 3rd quarter. This is pretty much over. Our continous 3rd quarter meltdowns :|


after starting the Q on a 7-0 run...not to rub salt in it. i expect the bulls to make a run.


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## PowerWoofer (Jan 5, 2006)

Why Are We Down By Double Digits???????????????????????

Damn It!!!!!!!

Man The Bulls Suck Tonight!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

Ben! Some heroics would be certainly welcome.


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## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

We can't guard Toronto. And their 3 best shooters aren't even playing.


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## CanadianBull (May 6, 2006)

Hinrich is certainly looking awful tonight. Damn it, I hate the Raptors...


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## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

Embarassing. They space the floor and take one open shot after another against the 2nd best defensive team in the NBA. I want no piece of this team in the playoffs.


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## Sham (Dec 2, 2002)

Anyone who thinks we can't take this team in a 7 game series is choosing to focus on 3 quarters instead of 75 games.


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## kulaz3000 (May 3, 2006)

This is embarressing..


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## nitric (Dec 14, 2006)

We continue to be a bad team on the road, this is just embarassing. We need to win on the road to win a playoff series. Jeez


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## kulaz3000 (May 3, 2006)

Sham said:


> Anyone who thinks we can't take this team in a 7 game series is choosing to focus on 3 quarters instead of 75 games.


This game has nothing to do with a playoff series, because we're not going to face them. We should be trying to finish our season strong and with momentuem. We shouldn't be losing big to a team thats an eastern conference rival...

With been playing lacksadasical all game.


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## T-Time (Mar 3, 2007)

Um, this is not good at all. Why is Adrian Griffin in the game? We need some offense out there.


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## nitric (Dec 14, 2006)

Deng and Hinrich decide not to show up for this game..:|


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## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

Sham said:


> Anyone who thinks we can't take this team in a 7 game series is choosing to focus on 3 quarters instead of 75 games.


Huh? There record is almost as good as ours despite having some serious injury issues post-AS break. 

I'm not saying we can't beat this team in a 7 game series. But there's no denying TORONTO is freaking good and have made us look bad ever since they became good.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

I'm not so much worried about Toronto as I am letting the Cavs back in the hunt for #2.


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## nitric (Dec 14, 2006)

Losing by 18 with 7 to go. This is over and a really embarassing loss. I guess back to back blow outs and than being blown out by a team we had our numbers with isn't a bad t hing..


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## PowerWoofer (Jan 5, 2006)

The Bulls got whipped by Toronto tonight. I'm so pissed off, I don't even know what to say.


MAN THE BULLS SUCKED TONIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## crimedog (Jun 3, 2003)

Sham said:


> Anyone who thinks we can't take this team in a 7 game series is choosing to focus on 3 quarters instead of 75 games.


we did beat the bulls in chicago. i think it would be one hell of a series.

not that i want to play the bulls. i would rather the cavs or wiz than chicago, but i don't think you can claim certain victory.


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## Sham (Dec 2, 2002)

SPMJ said:


> Huh? There record is almost as good as ours despite having some serious injury issues post-AS break.
> 
> I'm not saying we can't beat this team in a 7 game series. But there's no denying TORONTO is freaking good and have made us look bad ever since they became good.


Sure. But that's not disproving what I said. I haven't demeaned Toronto, and won't.

But we can take them. We can take everybody.


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## T.Shock (Feb 11, 2003)

kulaz3000 said:


> This game has nothing to do with a playoff series, because we're not going to face them. We should be trying to finish our season strong and with momentuem. We shouldn't be losing big to a team thats an eastern conference rival...
> 
> With been playing lacksadasical all game.


You mean like Detroit did when they lost to us by almost 30 even though our starting center was out and our should be starting power forward was extremely sick. Games like this happen. You don't shoot well, they do.


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## kulaz3000 (May 3, 2006)

nitric said:


> Losing by 18 with 7 to go. This is over and a really embarassing loss. I guess back to back blow outs and than being blown out by a team we had our numbers with isn't a bad t hing..


We shouldn't be getting blown out by any team at this time of the season. Its down right inexcuseable to be playing this poorly down the stretch..

.. espically when the Cavs pretty much gave us the 2nd seed by losing today, we just gave the Cavs another chance to take back that seed by losing today.


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

this is bull****.

toronto playing like they want it and the bulls playing like they just don't care.

how very frustrating.


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## nitric (Dec 14, 2006)

I hate watching t hese kinds of games, teams we should be beating and we are getting served by them


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## kulaz3000 (May 3, 2006)

T.Shock said:


> You mean like Detroit did when they lost to us by almost 30 even though our starting center was out and our should be starting power forward was extremely sick. Games like this happen. You don't shoot well, they do.


But my point is we have more to lose than the Pistons. Being a young team we need the confidence and momentuem towards the playoffs, where as since they've been their so many times, they won't be as affected by loses. Plus, they are going to be the number one seed regardless.

We need momentuem, plus the second seed is something we should have tried to solidify, which we havn't tonight.


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## Babble-On (Sep 28, 2005)

Sham said:


> Anyone who thinks we can't take this team in a 7 game series is choosing to focus on 3 quarters instead of 75 games.


Well, the way the Raptors have picked the Bulls' D apart for open 3 after open 3 the last two times these teams have played is cause to have some concern. That discussion a lil' while back about teams that move the ball well picking the Bulls D apart seems to have applied these last couple of games.

I do think that this game has been an abberation in terms of how bad the Bulls offense has looked. I'd like to think that especially Deng and Hinrich would do much better on the offensive, especially with how Hinrich has managed to raise hs game in the postseason. I guess you could have some concern about how Deng'll do in the playoffs after his no show in last year's playoffs, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for now.


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## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

Sham said:


> Sure. But that's not disproving what I said. I haven't demeaned Toronto, and won't.
> 
> But we can take them.


Whose saying we can't take them? But fact is there's this belief among Bulls fans that we can dominate this team in a playoff series. That couldn't be farther from the truth. Ever since Toronto began playing good basketball they've made us look quite bad. Our D has serious issues against them because they can shoot and move the ball well. Teams like these trouble us.


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## Sham (Dec 2, 2002)

Heh, that made me laugh. They cracked 100 for the free food giveaway, and instantly the director cut to a happy fat person montage. Always good to have one of those prepped and ready.


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## T-Time (Mar 3, 2007)

What an embarassing loss. Toronto is good, but there not as good as we are making them look. Horrible defense. No way Parker gets that many threes off with good defense. Half his shots are luck shots, he is just shooting it as high as he can and there going in, I think he has some luck on his side although not totally.

Its a frustrating loss especially since Cleveland lossed we could have gained ground but this is a game that I hope we just throw out of our minds and continue on to next week.


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## Pain5155 (May 28, 2006)

i hope we play the bulls in the palyoffs, they have no answer for any of our players, especially crhis bosh.


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## kulaz3000 (May 3, 2006)

T-Time said:


> What an embarassing loss. Toronto is good, but there not as good as we are making them look. Horrible defense. No way Parker gets that many threes off with good defense. Half his shots are luck shots, he is just shooting it as high as he can and there going in, I think he has some luck on his side although not totally.
> 
> Its a frustrating loss especially since Cleveland lossed we could have gained ground but this is a game that I hope we just throw out of our minds and continue on to next week.


When a player makes 6 of 10 3 pointers they arn't considered luck shots. He is their best 3 point shooter, and our defense was just slow tonight. No excuses, we played poorly, they played great. Credit to them.

I wish we could have played them in the first round, it would have been a blistering series.


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## TripleDouble (Jul 26, 2002)

Worst loss of the season and it's not close. Bulls got killed by guys doubling and tripling their career scoring averages. 

Perhaps though it will turn out to be good to get a wakeup call going into the playoffs.


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

ok. that's it for the miz.

gotta watch the Sopranos recap show now so i can make sense of the new season. 

goodnight bulls fans.


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## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

Pain5155 said:


> i hope we play the bulls in the palyoffs, they have no answer for any of our players, especially crhis bosh.


Can't blame you Raptor fans for thinking this way. You've embarassed us the last 2 meetings. Good ball movement against us = Wide Open Threes all day.


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## kulaz3000 (May 3, 2006)

TripleDouble said:


> Worst loss of the season and it's not close. Bulls got killed by guys doubling and tripling their career scoring averages.
> 
> Perhaps though it will turn out to be good to get a wakeup call going into the playoffs.


Im more worried about the crazy threads that will be following this lose. The "THIS IS THE END OF THE BULLS" type of threads by the usual suspects whom im sure every knows who they are...


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## nitric (Dec 14, 2006)

Pain5155 said:


> i hope we play the bulls in the palyoffs, they have no answer for any of our players, especially crhis bosh.


If you play us in the playoffs, we will have home court advantage and take you guys out in 6.


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## TripleDouble (Jul 26, 2002)

Pain5155 said:


> i hope we play the bulls in the palyoffs, they have no answer for any of our players, especially crhis bosh.


Is that why Bosh is averaging 2.8 points under his season average this season versus the Bulls?


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## ballerkingn (Nov 17, 2006)

simple why we lost they made shots we missed.We had a lot of in and out today's and missed lay-ups.They made all thier open shot's,and get the respect from the officals all night and got calls.It seems once they made the ejection on mo-pete the refs felt bad and starting giving the raps some pt's.They got to line like 8 straight times in the 3rd and that was killer because during that we where ice cold.So to me this is a lucky win for them,don't get me wrong thier good,but i think thier is def a good reason for the blow out lose that could be fixed.As long as the refs make more 50 50 calls instead of 80-20 in favor of the rap's,also a lot of the jumpers that missed could become makes and change the game outcome.


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## T-Time (Mar 3, 2007)

kulaz3000 said:


> When a player makes 6 of 10 3 pointers they arn't considered luck shots. He is their best 3 point shooter, and our defense was just slow tonight. No excuses, we played poorly, they played great. Credit to them.
> 
> I wish we could have played them in the first round, it would have been a blistering series.


Your probably right, im just pretty angry right now with the loss and the horrible defense.


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## nitric (Dec 14, 2006)

ballerkingn said:


> simple why we lost they made shots we missed.We had a lot of in and out today's and missed lay-ups.They made all thier open shot's,and get the respect from the officals all night and got calls.It seems once they made the ejection on mo-pete the refs felt bad and starting giving the raps some pt's.They got to line like 8 straight times in the 3rd and that was killer because during that we where ice cold.So to me this is a lucky win for them,don't get me wrong thier good,but i think thier is def a good reason for the blow out lose that could be fixed.As long as the refs make more 50 50 calls instead of 80-20 in favor of the rap's,also a lot of the jumpers that missed could become makes and change the game outcome.


This game reminded me of the Heat game where we lost by 20+~. It happens.


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## Sham (Dec 2, 2002)

Hey, if we feel the need for a public lynching after this game, may I demand that it's Stacey King? 

Please?


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

I hate to say it, but I'm not terribly surprised by the outcome of this game. We were looking for a pick-me-up from Wallace and Tyrus and it wasn't happening. As Sham pointed out, it sucks terribly when you're trying to come back from a bad viral infection. Thankfully we have another handful of games to tune up and work the bugs out.

Factor in that the Raptors are hungry and a great home team, and this wasn't our day. That's not to say we can't beat them come playoff time. We had some things working against us that won't necessarily be the case in a few weeks.


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## tweedy (Apr 4, 2005)

Sloppy, frustrating, etc.

A bad game, but the the Bulls are still playing well late into the season. I'm more worried about getting the rotations set for the playoffs.

Toronto is not to be messed with. They were extremely active today. The difference was FTs.


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## nitric (Dec 14, 2006)

CLE next four games : *L* NJ, *W* ATL, *W* @PHI, *W* MIL

Bulls next four games : *W* NY, *W* CHA, *W* WAS, *L* @NJ

Any predictions? I think we both go 3-1


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## crimedog (Jun 3, 2003)

T-Time said:


> What an embarassing loss. Toronto is good, but there not as good as we are making them look. Horrible defense. No way Parker gets that many threes off with good defense. Half his shots are luck shots, he is just shooting it as high as he can and there going in, I think he has some luck on his side although not totally.
> 
> Its a frustrating loss especially since Cleveland lossed we could have gained ground but this is a game that I hope we just throw out of our minds and continue on to next week.


AP's the 7th best 3-point shooter in the league. The only luck was that the bulls decided not to play defence.


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## T-Time (Mar 3, 2007)

Well I think after a night off to rejuvinate we will come ready to play against the Knicks. I hope TNT play better than they did tonight because they weren't factors at all in this game, more in the 2nd half. Duhon really doesn't deserve the minutes he is getting now with the lack of production from this whole season. Even though he isn't getting much, I don't see how you can continue to play him more than 10 minutes a game. Malik Allen, everyone will soon know my hate for him because this guy shouldn't be in the league yet he still finds minutes on this team.


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## JeremyB0001 (Nov 17, 2003)

- The Raptor's performance this game reminds of Florida's play in the championship game. I remarked several times that Florida probably couldn't hit so many open jumpers during their shootaround. I agree that the Rap's had good spacing and that early on we left Parker open behind the arc too often, but late in the game they seemed to hit _every single open jumper_ and that hardly ever happens. Parker also hit two or three tres with a man right on him in the second half which is atypical, even for a 43% three point shooter.

- The Raptor's frontcourt height provides a matchup problem for us similar to the Magic but Bulls fans fretting about a matchup with them and Raptors fans clamoring to play us are losing it. I'll take the information I've garnered during the past 75 games instead of dwelling on three our four games to reach absurd conclusions such as the Bulls having a better chance in a 7 game series against Detroit than one against Toronto.

- Poor games from Deng and Hinrich tonight (though Kirk may have an excuse due to the collision with TT). Anyone trying to award Gordon a medal for his performance should hold up since he had 5 turnovers, took several ill advised shots (most of which fortunately went in) and repeatedly left Parker wide open from three.

- The refs were just horrific from midway through the third quarter onwards. Part of me is relieved that we didn't play well enough to win because if we had, they would've stolen the game from us. I lost track of the phantom calls (at least two of which were away from the ball!) the Raptor's received and the no calls we received. I make these assessments with more certainty than usual because I had the benefit of watching the plays in slo-mo on TIVO tonight. Disgusting.

- I frequently defend Skiles' less than stellar lineups in the second quarter because I think it's often unavoidable and I realize that Tyrus, Ben, and Noc were a bit rusty, but playing Malik and Griff down the stretch is not acceptable to me.


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

Pain5155 said:


> i hope we play the bulls in the palyoffs, they have no answer for any of our players, especially crhis bosh.



lol we'd serve ya'll in a 7 game series

don't get your hopes up buddy


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

The way Ben Gordon shoots off the dribble gives me night terrors.


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## SickGame (Jan 23, 2006)

The Raptors were just the better team today, in and out.
The Bulls demonstrated that they're a jump shooting team with little height, therefore making it difficult for them to dominate the paint offensively when struggling from the field. Heinrich and Deng shot well below their average and continued to kill any of the team's momentum with the constant one and dones. They were ice-cold and the Raptors, who were cold all game decided to play like normal and shoot the ball with relative ease (if people don't watch the Raptors, they have alot of great shooters than if they catch a little bit of fire, they shoot the lights out, don't be shocked). 
The calls looked one-sided at times but the illegal screens killed you and the Raptors were easily more assertive in attacking the rim, mostly Bosh who now gets respect and recieves calls.
The series between both teams is 2-2.
I consider the Raptors the better team. You do not. Hopefully we'll see you in the playoffs.


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## jsuh84 (Oct 16, 2004)

Gotta give it to the Toronto Raptors. They have shown they are more than an up-and-coming team.

Bosh, Ford, Bargnani (Even though he didn't play today)..

And even their role players in Calderon, Parker, and Graham.

Coangelo is a gansta' of a GM.


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## PowerWoofer (Jan 5, 2006)

jsuh84 said:


> Gotta give it to the Toronto Raptors. They have shown they are more than an up-and-coming team.
> 
> Bosh, Ford, Bargnani (Even though he didn't play today)..
> 
> ...


And they got lucky this season. How in the hell they got Colangelo is beyond me. I mean, seriously, why the hell would he leave Phoenix to go all the way to Toronto?

I still can't believe they are doing what they've done so far. I hope they have a rude awakening next season, because most of those guys just started playing with this team THIS year. They can't be THAT good after only one year.

Seriously.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

Also, I wanted to add that Bulls fans seem to be a classy bunch. Maybe we'll get to know each other a bit better a few weeks from now.


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## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

Amazing how things have changed. A few months ago Bulls were the last team Toronto would've liked to face in the playoffs. Now their fans are freaking hoping to face us. And the worst thing abt this is that I can't even blame 'em for thinking this way!! . No team this season has made us look as bad as Toronto's done the last 2 meetings.


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## PowerWoofer (Jan 5, 2006)

SPMJ said:


> Amazing how things have changed. A few months ago Bulls were the last team Toronto would've liked to face in the playoffs. Now their fans are freaking hoping to face us. And the worst thing abt this is that I can't even blame 'em for thinking this way!! . No team this season has made us look as bad as Toronto's done the last 2 meetings.


That's what pisses me off, because we're better than the Raptors. Luck is somehow killing us when it comes to playing them of late.

Things better change, if they meet in the playoffs.


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## Mateo (Sep 23, 2006)

bulls blew their chance to wrap up the #2 seed. The Cavs have a cakewalk the rest of the way. If the Bulls lose a single game from here out, they'll probably lose their seeding.


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## soonerterp (Nov 13, 2005)

jsuh84 said:


> Gotta give it to the Toronto Raptors. They have shown they are more than an up-and-coming team.
> 
> Bosh, Ford, Bargnani (Even though he didn't play today)..
> 
> ...



Juan Dixon. That 3 at the end of the 3d was sick. What's more he seems to have finally found an NBA "home" in Toronto.

I admit I'm somewhat biased in assessing him, though.

Had hoped the Bulls could pull out a win because Cleveland lost today.


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## BullsAttitude (Jun 11, 2002)

SickGame said:


> The Raptors were just the better team today, in and out.
> The Bulls demonstrated that they're a jump shooting team with little height, therefore making it difficult for them to dominate the paint offensively when struggling from the field. Heinrich and Deng shot well below their average and continued to kill any of the team's momentum with the constant one and dones. They were ice-cold and the Raptors, who were cold all game decided to play like normal and shoot the ball with relative ease (if people don't watch the Raptors, they have alot of great shooters than if they catch a little bit of fire, they shoot the lights out, don't be shocked).
> The calls looked one-sided at times but the illegal screens killed you and the Raptors were easily more assertive in attacking the rim, mostly Bosh who now gets respect and recieves calls.
> The series between both teams is 2-2.
> I consider the Raptors the better team. You do not. Hopefully we'll see you in the playoffs.



When you did beat us in Chicago, we were coming off a 7 game road trip, our 2nd of the season. Your team has not gone on a road trip higher than 5 games. Also, that night, we lost by 1 and your team shot, at our house, 23 free throws to our 9. Watching that game, the refs gave to much respect to the Raptors and Bosh. Jose Calderon got an and-1 basket way after the whistle had blown. 

Also, that game, we were without Nocioni, and today was his first game back after missing 23 or 24 games. With Gordon in the starting lineup, he is our main guy off the bench. So, it's going to take time for him to get back into the rotation. We had a good first half and a bad second half, plain and simple. Today was also Wallace's first game back after the viral infection. Your guys hit their open shots, plus, once again you all went to the line way more than us. 

Actually, we had more baskets from the field today than you all. You hit 13 more free throws than us, and had 5 more 3 pointers.

I believe the Raptors are good, but in the playoffs, defense becomes way more important than offense. The game gets more physical and refs are not calling every ticky tacky foul like they do in the regular season. The Bulls are a good defensive team and come playoff time we will be ready, when games become very intense.

Toronto, don't get to ahead of yourselves. Of your big second half run, only 9 or your 31 wins have come against winning teams. 3 of those wins were against the Wizards also, the last one in Washington would have been a loss if it had not been for Michael Ruffin being an idiot. 6 of those wins have also been at home in Toronto, remember you have to win on the road in the playoffs.

The Bulls have also been great at home, but not so great on the road. Some of those games we have giving up big leads. I know you all are thinking of taking the 2nd best record in the East, but you have to play Detroit twice, once in Detroit. Plus, you would need us to pretty much lose 2 of our next four and you all go undefeated, cause we own the tiebreaker with a better conference record. Your team is good, but the playoffs is a whole different story.


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## Soulful Sides (Oct 10, 2005)

PowerWoofer said:


> And they got lucky this season. How in the hell they got Colangelo is beyond me. I mean, seriously, why the hell would he leave Phoenix to go all the way to Toronto?


Same reason Mayo wants to go to USC.

That and Toronto is a great city.


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## T.Shock (Feb 11, 2003)

Biggest game of the season is against the Knicks. I think Cleveland goes 3-1 the rest of the way losing either to New Jersey or at Philadelphia which has been playing well as of late. Bulls should beat the Bobcats and Wiz at home (if they don't, they deserve the 5 seed). I'm assuming we lose at New Jersey who will prolly have a lot more to play for on that last night. Which basically means if we beat the Knicks we get the 2 seed and if we lose we get the 5 seed.


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## SickGame (Jan 23, 2006)

Yes, we did goto the line more often, but that's because we pound the ball inside more often than you do thus more free throws. 
As we all know, free throws are essential in winning playoff basketball and it's usually the team that goes to the line more often while making them at a consistently high percentage that wins (just look at Wade last year, two-thirds of his success in that final series came at the line).
You talk about defense but it's been lackluster in our past two meetings. If you have a good defense, you don't let players get open shots all game and/or send them to the line that frequently. 
I agree with what you're saying and I understand it, but the points you make seem to refer that the Bulls excel at the things you mention. Not to forget that you completely take away the value of free throws and why our team goes to the line more often, which is drive more frequently than settling for the jumpshots that Gordon and Nicioni thrive on. Face it, while Ford, Graham, Dixon and Bosh can be seen attacking the basket on a consistent basis, you don't see the same with Hinrich, Gordon and Duhon.
You say defense. I say free-throws.
And a win is a win, which builds confidence and when you have confidence, you can match up easier against better seeded teams. And do remember, this team has hardly even been blown out this year and has lost by very little to the Mavs and Suns.
Finally, you say refs do not call ticky-tack fouls in the playoffs? Need I mention Wade once more in the final series? If you're aggressive and a recognized high caliber player, you will get the calls (see: Bosh).


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## Orange Julius Irving (Jun 28, 2004)

T.Shock said:


> Biggest game of the season is against the Knicks. I think Cleveland goes 3-1 the rest of the way losing either to New Jersey or at Philadelphia which has been playing well as of late. Bulls should beat the Bobcats and Wiz at home (if they don't, they deserve the 5 seed). I'm assuming we lose at New Jersey who will prolly have a lot more to play for on that last night. Which basically means if we beat the Knicks we get the 2 seed and if we lose we get the 5 seed.



Well, FWIW Charlotte just beat The Heat and beat us badly the last time we played them. I wouldn't look past that game either. We SHOULD easily beat The Knicks IMO.

As I have noticed all season long you really can't take any game and say one way or the other what will happen. This team is almost totally unpredictable.

I will say though that from listening to ESPN the last couple days the Bulls aren't even in the picure if they had their way. They'd like to see Toronto get the #2 and Cleveland get the # 3 and will be glad to see the Bull move to #5 and meet the Heat w/o homecourt advantage.

Listening to the comentary during the Piston/Cavs game they kept referring to the top teams in the East as Detroit, Cleveland and Miami with Toronto being the team no one wants to play. Then they'd off-handedly mention Chicago.

The biggest problem with The Bulls is no Star Power.


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## JeremyB0001 (Nov 17, 2003)

SickGame said:


> The Raptors were just the better team today, in and out.
> The Bulls demonstrated that they're a jump shooting team with little height, therefore making it difficult for them to dominate the paint offensively when struggling from the field. Heinrich and Deng shot well below their average and continued to kill any of the team's momentum with the constant one and dones.


Most teams will lose when three of their best players have bad games. I wouldn't count that as some huge feather in the caps of Bulls' opponents.



SickGame said:


> They were ice-cold and the Raptors, who were cold all game decided to play like normal and shoot the ball with relative ease (if people don't watch the Raptors, they have alot of great shooters than if they catch a little bit of fire, they shoot the lights out, don't be shocked).


So a team shooting 46.2% on the season from the field and 35.4% from three has a game where they shoot 44% from the field and 47.4% from three and that's a cold night?! Huh? Cold teams generally miss open shots; I saw the Raptors miss about two or three in the entire second half.




SickGame said:


> The calls looked one-sided at times but the illegal screens killed you and the Raptors were easily more assertive in attacking the rim, mostly Bosh who now gets respect and recieves calls.
> The series between both teams is 2-2.
> I consider the Raptors the better team. You do not. Hopefully we'll see you in the playoffs.


Like the illegal screen set by P.J. where the replay showed no contact and Calderon tripped/flopped? Exactly. Judging a team by four games is pretty dangerous. I'd be careful, you might get what you ask for. Even if I wasn't a Bulls fan, I'd probably give you odds if you chose to take the 44-33 team with a 1.1 win differential over the 46-32 team with a 4.3 win differential.



SickGame said:


> Yes, we did goto the line more often, but that's because we pound the ball inside more often than you do thus more free throws.
> As we all know, free throws are essential in winning playoff basketball and it's usually the team that goes to the line more often while making them at a consistently high percentage that wins (just look at Wade last year, two-thirds of his success in that final series came at the line).
> 
> Not to forget that you completely take away the value of free throws and why our team goes to the line more often, which is drive more frequently than settling for the jumpshots that Gordon and Nicioni thrive on. Face it, while Ford, Graham, Dixon and Bosh can be seen attacking the basket on a consistent basis, you don't see the same with Hinrich, Gordon and Duhon.


Yeah, except the exact opposite is true. The Bulls shoot 25.6 free throws per game and the Raptors shoot 23.9.

Free throw attempts per 40 minutes: Gordon (6.6), Ford (5.3), Hinrich (4.1), Graham (3.7), Dixon (2.4), Duhon (2.1). Unsurprisingly, Bosh, your All-Star PF gets to the line quite a bit more (8.9 per 40) than our back up point guard but that's to be expected, and Tyrus Thomas isn't too shabby himself (7.1 per 40).



SickGame said:


> You talk about defense but it's been lackluster in our past two meetings. If you have a good defense, you don't let players get open shots all game and/or send them to the line that frequently.
> I agree with what you're saying and I understand it, but the points you make seem to refer that the Bulls excel at the things you mention.
> You say defense. I say free-throws.


Strangely though, the Bulls somehow rank third in the NBA in defensive efficiency and second in opponents field goal percentage. Is your argument that the Bulls can play great defense against every team in the NBA except Toronto?



SickGame said:


> And a win is a win, which builds confidence and when you have confidence, you can match up easier against better seeded teams. And do remember, this team has hardly even been blown out this year and has lost by very little to the Mavs and Suns.


Then the Bulls should have a lot of confidence since they've won more games than the Raptors. If the Raptors aren't losing games by a large margin then they're not winning them by substantial margins because calling their 1.1 points per game win differential mediocre is probably generous.


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## BullsAttitude (Jun 11, 2002)

SickGame said:


> Yes, we did goto the line more often, but that's because we pound the ball inside more often than you do thus more free throws.
> As we all know, free throws are essential in winning playoff basketball and it's usually the team that goes to the line more often while making them at a consistently high percentage that wins (just look at Wade last year, two-thirds of his success in that final series came at the line).
> You talk about defense but it's been lackluster in our past two meetings. If you have a good defense, you don't let players get open shots all game and/or send them to the line that frequently.
> I agree with what you're saying and I understand it, but the points you make seem to refer that the Bulls excel at the things you mention. Not to forget that you completely take away the value of free throws and why our team goes to the line more often, which is drive more frequently than settling for the jumpshots that Gordon and Nicioni thrive on. Face it, while Ford, Graham, Dixon and Bosh can be seen attacking the basket on a consistent basis, you don't see the same with Hinrich, Gordon and Duhon.
> ...



You can say Hinrich, Gordon and Duhon don't drive to the basket, but they do, trust me, I follow the Bulls, they just don't get the benefit of the calls as some other players do, Hinrich more so than anybody. During a game, when you drive and you don't get the call, then you stop driving to the basket. See, Lebron knows that he can go to the basket anytime he wants, get barely bumped and the whistle blows, it's nice knowin you have that luxury.

Bosh is a high caliber player, but I don't believe he deserves the calls he gets, same for Wade, Lebron, Carmelo and so on. These young players are giving the calls way to early in their careers. Michael had to earn his as he got better, then he started getting the benefit of the doubt.

So you would say that Toronto was a better team when the Bulls were up 57-46? We were playing well and then we hit one of our dry spells, when our shots stopped dropping, wasn't your defense, we became careless with the ball. Parker had a killer game today and he was on fire, hitting his shots. Also, after we went up 11, I looked at the play by play on ESPN and you all went to the line 21 of your 37 times after that point. So, it's not like you totally outplayed us all game. If you had led from start to finish, then yes I would no doubt give in that Toronto played better all game, but that didn't happen. The Raptors picked it up the last quarter and a half, and outplayed us then and you deserve the win for that. 

You were at home, the Bulls had just come off a game where we pretty much played only 8 guys a majority of the game. Like I mentioned before, this was Nocioni's first game back after 28 games. That is one of our main bench players, I would say he is our main bench player in front of Tyrus Thomas. 

You can say you almost beat the Mavs and Suns, well we did beat the Mavs at home by double digits, then we beat the Suns in Phoenix, yes they didn't have Steve Nash, but we lost on a Barbosa 3 when they had Steve Nash in Chicago. We also beat the Spurs this year, the same team you lost to twice. 

You can say free throws, but your role players won't get all those whistles like Bosh does in the playoffs. Our defense was lucklaster the last quarter and a half, not the 1st half though. You know, Phoenix hasn't won a championship for a reason, they make it to the Conference Finals but always run into a better defensive team. There's a reason they fear facing San Antonio in the playoffs. Defense!

Your home record is great, but what about your road record. I know the Raptors have the best record in the East since Jan. 1, 31 -15. Like I said, only 9 of those wins came against teams with winning records. 3 of those against the Wizards. 6 of them at home. Remember 2 years ago how people were talking about the Bulls having the best record in East the second half of the season, how be prepared for us. We lost in the 1st round to Washington. Now, if you all face Washington, you should win cause they are missing Arenas and Butler.

Yes, winning builds confidence but nothing prepares you for the playoffs unless you have been there. You can say free throws, I can say defense. That's why you'll see the Pistons out of the East and the Mavs out of the West. (Unless Miami gets on a roll with Wade back and the Spurs do the same) Toronto is a good team, but like I said, don't get ahead of yourselves. Playoffs is a different story all together.


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## PowerWoofer (Jan 5, 2006)

Listen, Toronto fans may think that the team may go far, but first-year teams NEVER go that far in the playoffs. The Raptors may get to the 2nd round, because of the fact they will likely play Washington, who's missing both their All-Stars. Talk about having so much luck it's coming out of your ***. First off, you get lucky and have the first pick in the draft. You SOMEHOW have a good season, CONSIDERING your in the worst division in the worst of the two conferences. Toronto is in such a favorable position, because THEY HAVE NO COMPETITION IN THEIR DAMN DIVISION!! I wish the Bulls were that lucky, but I guess not.

I'm telling you, things like that REALLY piss me off, when teams are praised for being great, but actually they are just LUCKY! It's all luck with Toronto. SAY some of the other teams in that division (New Jersey, Boston) had similar seasons to Toronto. There's NO WAY IN HELL Toronto would be strolling into the playoffs with the Atlantic Division crown. NO WAY!

I don't know why I'm ranting about the Raptors. I guess it's because I hate how they've lucked out so many damn times this season. It pisses me off so much, and I don't even know why. I guess it's like Miami winning the championship last season. It was a complete fluke, and it hurts to watch a team like Miami win it all, because there are teams that deserved that title more than them (Dallas, Phoenix, even Detroit should have beaten Miami).

I don't know. I guess I'm done for now. I hope the Raptors get killed in the playoffs, so that they realize how lucky they HAD it.


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## Mr. Bold (Nov 17, 2005)

PowerWoofer said:


> Listen, Toronto fans may think that the team may go far, but first-year teams NEVER go that far in the playoffs. The Raptors may get to the 2nd round, because of the fact they will likely play Washington, who's missing both their All-Stars. Talk about having so much luck it's coming out of your ***. First off, you get lucky and have the first pick in the draft. You SOMEHOW have a good season, CONSIDERING your in the worst division in the worst of the two conferences. Toronto is in such a favorable position, because THEY HAVE NO COMPETITION IN THEIR DAMN DIVISION!! I wish the Bulls were that lucky, but I guess not.
> 
> I'm telling you, things like that REALLY piss me off, when teams are praised for being great, but actually they are just LUCKY! It's all luck with Toronto. SAY some of the other teams in that division (New Jersey, Boston) had similar seasons to Toronto. There's NO WAY IN HELL Toronto would be strolling into the playoffs with the Atlantic Division crown. NO WAY!
> 
> ...


This is really surprising coming from a Bulls fan. Because this is excatly what happend to Bulls three years ago. They had a lot of talent. They made the right moves and they were a great team the following year. But I guess going by your judgement, Bulls got lucky.

The fact is, we are not winning the Atlantic with like 36 wins. We have 44wins with 5 games to go. We have a better record than Miami whose leading the Southeast. We're only 1.5 behind Bulls. And we just whipped the Bulls. Personally I think the whole division thingy is very overrated. We face every team in east 4 times (with the exception of 1-2 that we face three times) just like the bulls. We have 44 wins, you guys have 46. We have the 3rd best record in east. You guys are tied for second. I wouldnt call it luck! This is a great young team. They may not go far in playoffs but this team has a great future.


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## JeremyB0001 (Nov 17, 2003)

PowerWoofer said:


> I don't know why I'm ranting about the Raptors. I guess it's because I hate how they've lucked out so many damn times this season. It pisses me off so much, and I don't even know why.


I found the fact that we lost for the second time in nine games - when we had an off night on the road against a good team no less - and then had a bunch of their fans proclaiming they will beat us in the playoffs to be somewhat agravating. Not that they weren't civil, but I grow tired of people - Bulls fans, other teams' fans, the media - not giving this team a whole lot of respect.

I realize that's not what you're talking about though. I do understand what you mean that it's frustrating when people evaluate teams only by W-L record and don't probe further.


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## King Joseus (May 26, 2003)

My take: I think the Raptors are a pretty good team. I don't think they're better than we are, but I think they're pretty good. They have Bosh who is better than anyone on our team, but our team is better than their team even with them having the best player between the two. I wish them luck in the playoffs (until they play us, of course), as they definitely deserve to be there. I could probably rant some more, but I'd start making weird claims that I probably couldn't support so I'll just stop here.


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## JeremyB0001 (Nov 17, 2003)

Mr. Bold said:


> This is really surprising coming from a Bulls fan. Because this is excatly what happend to Bulls three years ago. They had a lot of talent. They made the right moves and they were a great team the following year. But I guess going by your judgement, Bulls got lucky.
> 
> The fact is, we are not winning the Atlantic with like 36 wins. We have 44wins with 5 games to go. We have a better record than Miami whose leading the Southeast. We're only 1.5 behind Bulls. And we just whipped the Bulls. Personally I think the whole division thingy is very overrated. We face every team in east 4 times (with the exception of 1-2 that we face three times) just like the bulls. We have 44 wins, you guys have 46. We have the 3rd best record in east. You guys are tied for second. I wouldnt call it luck! This is a great young team. They may not go far in playoffs but this team has a great future.


The Raptors are indisputably a top 5 team with the injuries to Washington and based on their resume probably deserve to be considered ahead of the Heat. Look at the point differential of those top four teams though: Detroit (4.3), Chicago (4.3), Cleveland (3.1), Toronto (1.1). It's pretty easy to pick out the team that doesn't fit. I agree that the difference in schedules is overrated, but it's difficult to argue that it doesn't make some difference and Toronto already trails the other three teams in wins and differential. I don't think it's too difficult to make an argument that Toronto is not in the same class as the Bulls, Pistons, and Cavs. 

Fans find it very easy to place emphasis on head to head results when the outcome is favorable to their team but in reality we're talking about a sample size of 4 or 6 games out of an 82 game season. Toronto fans may place a lot of stock in the Raptors "whipping" the Bulls but do they believe the Bulls can take the Pistons based on the season series between those two teams? I have my doubts. If you place too much emphasis on head to head competition, you'll eventually reach some absurd conclusions.


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## The KiBosh (Feb 17, 2007)

Raps fan here. Sorry... Don't mean to troll but I figured I'd throw in my two cents. Bulls ARE probably the better team of the two but I don't think the margin is as great as some here would like to think. The problem for the Bulls is that the style of D they play doesn't pan well for teams that have an offensive set up like the raps. Bulls are one of the better "team" defenders in the league. They work very well as a unit and everyone is involved (espesially good at colapsing in the paint). The worry for the Bulls is that 1-5 in the raps can shoot and some of the bigs have REALLY long range. When you stretch out the bulls defense like that it exposes them and quick PG's and ball movement can really hurt them. Basically... By spacing the floor as well as the Raps do you take the "team" out of their defence and you get a ton of open looks. I'm not saying the raps would beat the bulls in a seven game series but they'd be a headache for you guys. Just my opinion though (I made it in another thread but you guys probably wouldn't read it because its in a raptor thread). Am I far off base with that assesment? I've only watched a hand full (10 or so) of bulls games so you guys would obviously know better. How do they play up against some of the better shooting teams in the league?


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## McBulls (Apr 28, 2005)

PowerWoofer said:


> Listen, Toronto fans may think that the team may go far, but first-year teams NEVER go that far in the playoffs. The Raptors may get to the 2nd round, because of the fact they will likely play Washington, who's missing both their All-Stars. Talk about having so much luck it's coming out of your ***. First off, you get lucky and have the first pick in the draft. You SOMEHOW have a good season, CONSIDERING your in the worst division in the worst of the two conferences. Toronto is in such a favorable position, because THEY HAVE NO COMPETITION IN THEIR DAMN DIVISION!! I wish the Bulls were that lucky, but I guess not.
> 
> I'm telling you, things like that REALLY piss me off, when teams are praised for being great, but actually they are just LUCKY! It's all luck with Toronto. SAY some of the other teams in that division (New Jersey, Boston) had similar seasons to Toronto. There's NO WAY IN HELL Toronto would be strolling into the playoffs with the Atlantic Division crown. NO WAY!
> 
> ...



Having Vince Carter and Tracy McGrady walk out on you and getting nothing in return is not lucky. Having to trade Antonio Davis for Jalen Rose because his wife hates Canada is not lucky.

To their credit, Toronto fans have stuck by their team through thick and thin -- mostly thin. I'm glad to see the franchise finally putting a decent team together that they can cheer for.


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## crimedog (Jun 3, 2003)

JeremyB0001 said:


> The Raptors are indisputably a top 5 team with the injuries to Washington and based on their resume probably deserve to be considered ahead of the Heat. Look at the point differential of those top four teams though: Detroit (4.3), Chicago (4.3), Cleveland (3.1), Toronto (1.1). It's pretty easy to pick out the team that doesn't fit. I agree that the difference in schedules is overrated, but it's difficult to argue that it doesn't make some difference and Toronto already trails the other three teams in wins and differential. I don't think it's too difficult to make an argument that Toronto is not in the same class as the Bulls, Pistons, and Cavs.
> 
> Fans find it very easy to place emphasis on head to head results when the outcome is favorable to their team but in reality we're talking about a sample size of 4 or 6 games out of an 82 game season. Toronto fans may place a lot of stock in the Raptors "whipping" the Bulls but do they believe the Bulls can take the Pistons based on the season series between those two teams? I have my doubts. If you place too much emphasis on head to head competition, you'll eventually reach some absurd conclusions.


I think the Bulls are better than the raptors...and I think if you look closely, a lot of the raptors fans who have posted have said so. That being said, these teams would have one heck of a series and I don't think the Bulls are so definitively in a different league than the raptors. And if you want to make tiers in the east, I think Detroit is alone on top, followed by chicago and cleveland, with toronto and miami capable of being in the second tier on any given sunday.


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## crimedog (Jun 3, 2003)

McBulls said:


> Having Vince Carter and Tracy McGrady walk out on you and getting nothing in return is not lucky. Having to trade Antonio Davis for Jalen Rose because his wife hates Canada is not lucky.
> 
> To their credit, Toronto fans have stuck by their team through thick and thin -- mostly thin. I'm glad to see the franchise finally putting a decent team together that they can cheer for.


I appreciate the classy response to a ridiculous post by your fellow bulls fan. 

luck plays a big part in everyone's game, but aside from the random luck of getting the #1 pick...who hasn't played for 3 weeks...where is the luck? you talk about divisions, but frankly the fact that we only play miami 3 times this year is very UNlucky, because they got two home games and currently hold the tie break, making our lead on them effectively only 1 game. OK, we play philly one more time than you or something...big deal. I can accept a West vs. East schedule complaint, but pointing to the schedule is just petty. 

the part that gets me is that he attributed the heat's championship to luck.


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## JeremyB0001 (Nov 17, 2003)

The KiBosh said:


> Raps fan here. Sorry... Don't mean to troll but I figured I'd throw in my two cents. Bulls ARE probably the better team of the two but I don't think the margin is as great as some here would like to think. The problem for the Bulls is that the style of D they play doesn't pan well for teams that have an offensive set up like the raps. Bulls are one of the better "team" defenders in the league. They work very well as a unit and everyone is involved (espesially good at colapsing in the paint). The worry for the Bulls is that 1-5 in the raps can shoot and some of the bigs have REALLY long range. When you stretch out the bulls defense like that it exposes them and quick PG's and ball movement can really hurt them. Basically... By spacing the floor as well as the Raps do you take the "team" out of their defence and you get a ton of open looks. I'm not saying the raps would beat the bulls in a seven game series but they'd be a headache for you guys. Just my opinion though (I made it in another thread but you guys probably wouldn't read it because its in a raptor thread). Am I far off base with that assesment? I've only watched a hand full (10 or so) of bulls games so you guys would obviously know better. How do they play up against some of the better shooting teams in the league?


My sense is that a great shooting team with good spacing will create problems for any defense. Will it cause more problems for the Bulls than other teams because they play more help defense than most teams? From a scouting perspective I haven't really paid enough attention to other teams' defenses enough to say. 

Looking at the numbers, the fact that the Bulls allow the 6th lowest 3 point FG% might serve some to dispel that notion, but that's against all teams not those similar to the Raptors. Looking at the top 10 teams in both FG% and 3PT FG%, Utah and Orlando are the only two teams I see that have given the Bulls a ton of trouble. They also had an embarassing loss to Memphis. They've performed admirably against Phoenix, Dallas, and San Antonio who are the top three 3PT % teams.


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## JeremyB0001 (Nov 17, 2003)

crimedog said:


> I appreciate the classy response to a ridiculous post by your fellow bulls fan.
> 
> luck plays a big part in everyone's game, but aside from the random luck of getting the #1 pick...who hasn't played for 3 weeks...where is the luck? you talk about divisions, but frankly the fact that we only play miami 3 times this year is very UNlucky, because they got two home games and currently hold the tie break, making our lead on them effectively only 1 game. OK, we play philly one more time than you or something...big deal. I can accept a West vs. East schedule complaint, but pointing to the schedule is just petty.
> 
> the part that gets me is that he attributed the heat's championship to luck.


I believe there are better ways to evaluate a team than using solely W-L record. It's not an uncomon view, there are forumla's such as John Hollinger's power rankings which rank teams using other factors. Studies indicate that point differential are a stronger predictor of future success than W-L record. W-L record is the most important factor but the quality of competition and the margin by which a team are winning and losing games can put a teams record into context; people often intuitively look at these factors when putting together their NCAA brackets. Luck isn't necessarily the right explanation but some teams' records do tend to be better or worse than their actual ability. If a team has a low win differential and wins a lot of close games, then that team might be winning a 1 point game in which they hit a half court heave at the buzzer or made some jumpers that bounced around the rim several times and then fell in. 

Using the word luck to describe the Heat's Championship might be pejorative but while I believe that the better team almost always wins a seven game series, if those two teams played 10 seven game series last year, I think the Mavs would've won 8 of them.


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## SickGame (Jan 23, 2006)

I never said the Bulls were the weaker out of two. In fact, quite the opposite: I stated that the Bulls are the better team talent wise. However, alot of you are quick (much like the rest of the league) to disregard the Raptors and how their shooting/spacing/rotating gives fits to alot of good defensive ball clubs (excluding the Spurs). It isn't a coincidence or a spat of luck as some uneducated people seem to conclude.
The fact is that the Raptors are a stronger team that people think they are and will be dangerous because they're a hot team that's become accustomed to winning consistently. They surprise teams night in and night out, thus the wins. However, the Raptors are weaker than Detroit, Miami and the Bulls. Yet, upsets happen and this team has the ability to go far due to their prowess at home and their ability to score effectively through various players.
Also, it's not a matter of taking head to head results and basing a playoff series on it. What it is is that having a team split the season series means that yes, the Raptors can be the Bulls and with some luck and hard work and fortunate bounces, can take a seven game series. Same thing can be said for the Bulls if they face the Pistons. *You cannot discredit a team from being a possible winner based on W-L, the same way you can't champion a team based on W-L.* So I agree with your argument, however it's hypocritcal to just base that the Bulls are the better team based on their record and statistics. What it comes down to is that the season series is 2-2 and therefore, using logic, the series would be tight and might come down to a game seven or a few very close games that will decide the winner based on who can remain 'clutch.'


p.s.
Concerning what I said about free throws, I was wrong. I didn't realize that the Bulls went to the line so much, so for that, I apologize in falsely claiming that they did not attack the rim.


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## PowerWoofer (Jan 5, 2006)

SickGame said:


> I never said the Bulls were the weaker out of two. In fact, quite the opposite: I stated that the Bulls are the better team talent wise. However, alot of you are quick (much like the rest of the league) to disregard the Raptors and how their shooting/spacing/rotating gives fits to alot of good defensive ball clubs (excluding the Spurs). It isn't a coincidence or a spat of luck as some uneducated people seem to conclude.
> The fact is that the Raptors are a stronger team that people think they are and will be dangerous because they're a hot team that's become accustomed to winning consistently. They surprise teams night in and night out, thus the wins. However, the Raptors are weaker than Detroit, Miami and the Bulls. Yet, upsets happen and this team has the ability to go far due to their prowess at home and their ability to score effectively through various players.
> Also, it's not a matter of taking head to head results and basing a playoff series on it. What it is is that having a team split the season series means that yes, the Raptors can be the Bulls and with some luck and hard work and fortunate bounces, can take a seven game series. Same thing can be said for the Bulls if they face the Pistons. *You cannot discredit a team from being a possible winner based on W-L, the same way you can't champion a team based on W-L.* So I agree with your argument, however it's hypocritcal to just base that the Bulls are the better team based on their record and statistics. What it comes down to is that the season series is 2-2 and therefore, using logic, the series would be tight and might come down to a game seven or a few very close games that will decide the winner based on who can remain 'clutch.'
> 
> ...


The thing about the Raptors, the only player on that team with playoff experience is Mo Pete. Everyone else has either been signed or traded to Toronto last offseason, or was here AFTER the last time Toronto made the playoffs. That means a LOT of those guys aren't accustomed to the NBA playoffs, with the possible exception of Nesterovic (name?). Those Euroleague championships don't automatically make the Jorge and Calderon's of the world champions in the NBA.

The Bulls have been to the playoffs TWICE, and have faced some good competition. If the Bulls were to face the Raptors, they would win a seven game series. There's no doubt in my mind. Why? EXPERIENCE. Big Ben has a ring, just like Rasho. Tyrus may be a rookie, but he can still do some damage. When you factor in the core of Gordon, Hinrich, Deng, Noce, and even Duhon, we'll beat the Raptors in a seven game series. If we can't even do that, then the Bulls don't deserve to be on the court. They deserve to all be shipped into the NBDL, because the Raptors are like what the Bulls were two years ago (a team finally winning after a couple losing seasons, and thought that they could win it all). Sorry, but the same thing will happen to the Raptors as it did to the Bulls. If New Jersey gets that 6th seed, and the Bulls hold onto the 2nd seed, things will change quickly. New Jersey has experience (Kidd, Carter, Jefferson), and even though they don't have a front court, they will win on shear experience alone.


I just can't see the Raptors winning much this season, because they haven't proved jack yet. All they've done is win more games than the previous season. The same thing happened to the Bulls. They won a ton of games, lost in the first round (because they thought they were better than their opponents, well, they were actually. But they underestimated the power of experience). The Raptors will face the same thing, IF they have to face the Nets, that is. If they get LUCKY again and face the worst playoff team this season, then yeah, they could get into the second round, but don't count on getting farther than that.

Sorry, but I couldn't bear to watch a team who hasn't won a playoff game in years beat a team like the Bulls in a seven game series. The Bulls are better than that, no matter how bad the Raptors gave it to them last night. Don't forget if the Bulls meat the Raptors, they'll probably have home court, which means the Bulls have the advantage. Thank you! Bulls win!


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## PowerWoofer (Jan 5, 2006)

Another thing about the Raptors: who poses a thread to them in their division, except New Jersey? NO ONE! The Nets have been battling injuries all season to some of their best players (Jefferson, Krstic, House is down), and every other team in the division is trying to rebuild. No god damn wonder they won their divison, and have a top 4 record: THEY DON'T HAVE ANY COMPETITION!!

Look at the Bulls: they have to face the Cavaliers (LeBron James), and Detroit (the entire team!). We beat Detroit 3-1 and tied Cleveland 2-2. I'd like to see how the Raptors would face against good competition. They don't have no one to compete against, so they just have the Atlantic Divison title by default.

Now THAT'S what I call luck.


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## JeremyB0001 (Nov 17, 2003)

SickGame said:


> I never said the Bulls were the weaker out of two. In fact, quite the opposite: I stated that the Bulls are the better team talent wise. However, alot of you are quick (much like the rest of the league) to disregard the Raptors and how their shooting/spacing/rotating gives fits to alot of good defensive ball clubs (excluding the Spurs). It isn't a coincidence or a spat of luck as some uneducated people seem to conclude.
> 
> The fact is that the Raptors are a stronger team that people think they are and will be dangerous because they're a hot team that's become accustomed to winning consistently. They surprise teams night in and night out, thus the wins. However, the Raptors are weaker than Detroit, Miami and the Bulls. Yet, upsets happen and this team has the ability to go far due to their prowess at home and their ability to score effectively through various players.


The Raptors are a good offensive team (8th in offensive efficiency) and a top 5 team in the East, I don't think anyone is dismissing them. There are a myriad of indicators that the Bulls are a stronger team yet you think the Raptors are the better team (I guess just not talent wise?), so much so that you would like to play the Bulls in a playoff series. I disagree with that assumption and think the evidence backs me up.



SickGame said:


> Also, it's not a matter of taking head to head results and basing a playoff series on it. What it is is that having a team split the season series means that yes, the Raptors can be the Bulls and with some luck and hard work and fortunate bounces, can take a seven game series. Same thing can be said for the Bulls if they face the Pistons. *You cannot discredit a team from being a possible winner based on W-L, the same way you can't champion a team based on W-L.* So I agree with your argument, however it's hypocritcal to just base that the Bulls are the better team based on their record and statistics. What it comes down to is that the season series is 2-2 and therefore, using logic, the series would be tight and might come down to a game seven or a few very close games that will decide the winner based on who can remain 'clutch.'


I certainly agree that the Raptors could win a 7 game series against the Bulls. My problem with placing too much weight on the season series is that we end up throwing out 78 games for each team which are extremely informative. Based on the season series, a 7 game series between the two teams would be a 50-50 proposition. When you account for the rest of the season, I think the Bulls become more like 60-40 or 65-35 favorites.


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## King Joseus (May 26, 2003)

PowerWoofer said:


> Another thing about the Raptors: who poses a thread to them in their division, except New Jersey? NO ONE! The Nets have been battling injuries all season to some of their best players (Jefferson, Krstic, House is down), and every other team in the division is trying to rebuild. No god damn wonder they won their divison, and have a top 4 record: THEY DON'T HAVE ANY COMPETITION!!
> 
> Look at the Bulls: they have to face the Cavaliers (LeBron James), and Detroit (the entire team!). We beat Detroit 3-1 and tied Cleveland 2-2. I'd like to see how the Raptors would face against good competition. They don't have no one to compete against, so they just have the Atlantic Divison title by default.
> 
> Now THAT'S what I call luck.


Just checking, but you _do_ know that an NBA team's schedule is not very different at all on account of division but moreso due to conference, right? They play Cleveland and Detroit three times each instead of four. That's a two game difference. Not that big of a deal in my eyes, and they're still a pretty good team.

:whoknows:


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## PowerWoofer (Jan 5, 2006)

King Joseus said:


> Just checking, but you _do_ know that an NBA team's schedule is not very different at all on account of division but moreso due to conference, right? They play Cleveland and Detroit three times each instead of four. That's a two game difference. Not that big of a deal in my eyes, and they're still a pretty good team.
> 
> :whoknows:


Well, they get to play Boston and Philly two MORE games than us, so that's two games. Also, they probably played certain teams that were less than healty on occasion (us too, BUT we normally end up having to play teams at full strength most of the time).

AND that garbage luck win against Washington was a joke. That lucky three that Mo Pete got was a fluke, in my eyes. I know he does that a lot (circus shots and everything), but damn. That was luck. 100%.


Anyway, I'm done with this team (Raptors). I hope we get to play the Raptors in the second round, and beat them to the ground, like it SHOULD be. Thank you.


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## shookem (Nov 1, 2005)

Lucky or unlucky, the losers still didn't win 

I'm sure the better team will win when it counts.

BTW, going from 12th in a conference to 3rd has very little to do with luck, but keep the excuses handy, you'll need them.

-peace.


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## step (Sep 19, 2005)

> Also, they probably played certain teams that were less than healty on occasion (us too, BUT we normally end up having to play teams at full strength most of the time).


Yes it's a conspiracy, Stern wants to make it as hard as possible for us and piss easy for the only team not in the US.


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## PowerWoofer (Jan 5, 2006)

step said:


> Yes it's a conspiracy, Stern wants to make it as hard as possible for us and piss easy for the only team not in the US.


Not just the Raptors, but a lot of other teams as well. How many teams near, at, or below .500 go on the road as many times in a row as we do. NOT MANY, I believe. Also, some of the better teams probably have beneficial schedules (not so many 4 games in 5 nights, back to backs close together, LONG road game schedules, etc etc). I don't know why, but it really seems like the Bulls get the crappy end of the stick when it comes to scheduling NBA games. (Even if the stupid circus comes to Chicago, they should still be able to get a night or two at home. Or maybe the circus should pick another place to show their events - i.e., NOT an arena that involves pro games - I'm sure there are other places in Chicago to have the circus, right?).

So it may not be a conspiracy, but it sure seems like someone's trying to make the Bulls life in the regular season as hard as can be. Anyone else agree with me on this?


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## crimedog (Jun 3, 2003)

PowerWoofer said:


> Not just the Raptors, but a lot of other teams as well. How many teams near, at, or below .500 go on the road as many times in a row as we do. NOT MANY, I believe. Also, some of the better teams probably have beneficial schedules (not so many 4 games in 5 nights, back to backs close together, LONG road game schedules, etc etc). I don't know why, but it really seems like the Bulls get the crappy end of the stick when it comes to scheduling NBA games. (Even if the stupid circus comes to Chicago, they should still be able to get a night or two at home. Or maybe the circus should pick another place to show their events - i.e., NOT an arena that involves pro games - I'm sure there are other places in Chicago to have the circus, right?).
> 
> So it may not be a conspiracy, but it sure seems like someone's trying to make the Bulls life in the regular season as hard as can be. Anyone else agree with me on this?


WOW...you are crazy


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