# CAP situation isn't so bad



## baller213 (Jun 19, 2006)

i don't get the big deal reporters make about knicks salary situation

i was looking at the salaries at hoopshype
http://www.hoopshype.com/salaries/new_york.htm

and i have to say it doesn't seem so bad. After next season they'll be pretty much the same team but at about 80 million instead of 125 million. As long as they let contracts like jalen rose, maurice taylor go instead of trading them for long term contracts they should be fine (houston, jyd, shanon anderson are all gone/ had a buyout)... and in a couple of more years by the time it is to resign frye, nate, and david lee, steve francais and stephon marbury's huge contracts (almost 40 million combined) will be up. 

knicks will be left with nate rob, david lee, frye, curry, crawford and who ever else they draft... only "bad" contracts left will be q-rich, and jerome james... i'd think that core could probably be a much better team than what they have now at a lot less money


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## EwingStarksOakley94 (May 13, 2003)

baller213 said:


> i don't get the big deal reporters make about knicks salary situation
> 
> i was looking at the salaries at hoopshype
> http://www.hoopshype.com/salaries/new_york.htm
> ...



You pretty much summed it up though. They have to let those contracts run out. No more adding other team's problem contracts.


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## USSKittyHawk (Jul 22, 2005)

Welcome to the boards baller, good post! :cheers:


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## The Future7 (Feb 24, 2005)

baller213 said:


> i don't get the big deal reporters make about knicks salary situation
> 
> i was looking at the salaries at hoopshype
> http://www.hoopshype.com/salaries/new_york.htm
> ...



Thank you for that post. I feel like there is still hope


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## tempe85 (Jan 7, 2005)

baller213 said:


> i don't get the big deal reporters make about knicks salary situation
> 
> i was looking at the salaries at hoopshype
> http://www.hoopshype.com/salaries/new_york.htm
> ...


The CAP situation is bad... sorry to break it to you. Even if by a miracle they don't add any more contracts in the next four three years they'll still be over the cap until 2009/10. Also I don't think hoopshype has included Curry's new deal in the total cap yet..

If I were the Knicks I would start from complete stratch. I'd package Frye with Francis to simply get rid of him.. and then I'd do the same with Nate and Jerome James (or whomever). I would just sign a bunch of Euro's/draft picks/undrafted players and have them play the next two years.. and once that's over the Knicks will be well under the cap and finally able to start over again.

However seeing that Isiah Thomas can't see more than two inches in front of his face I doubt that will happen. He needs to go immediately for there to be any hope at all.


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

tempe85 said:


> If I were the Knicks I would start from complete stratch. I'd package Frye with Francis to simply get rid of him.. and then I'd do the same with Nate and Jerome James (or whomever). I would just sign a bunch of Euro's/draft picks/undrafted players and have them play the next two years.. and once that's over the Knicks will be well under the cap and finally able to start over again.
> .



That's worse than where they are at now. They should just stop taking on salary by making dumb trades and try to get rid of some of the higher paid guys for junk with expiring contracts. Start over that way, build up by getting young and go from there. 

But with that deal for Curry pretty much screwed them. I mean they could have had the record last yr w/o him, now they're out a top pick this yr and possibly a swap next yr where they could add some serious talent.


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## Truknicksfan (Mar 25, 2005)

> If I were the Knicks I would start from complete stratch. I'd package Frye with Francis to simply get rid of him.. and then I'd do the same with Nate and Jerome James (or whomever). I would just sign a bunch of Euro's/draft picks/undrafted players and have them play the next two years.. and once that's over the Knicks will be well under the cap and finally able to start over again.


Are you related to IT or Dolan by any chance? Just wondering :laugh: Just joking.

Welcome to board baller213!


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

if i were you guys id be worried frye and your youth will get traded so Thomas can try and save his job by increasing wins for next season.

rebuilding (the right way) is the only way to go. Lets be honest, the knicks dont let these contracts expire. They need to dump these ball hogs with long deals for anything that expires sooner. The team sucks, so dump the heavy salaries. You wont get much in return, but cap relief is something. At least you can give Frye, Robinson, Lee, and the new incoming rookies the opportunity to play.

The sooner dolan loses thomas, and tries to dump contracts, the sooner the Knicks can rebuild and get back to winning. The number one option on the team should be curry in the low post. And the number two option should be Frye in the high post.

With Crawford, Marbury, Rose, Franchise and others all fighting to jack up shots, how is an offense going to be run through Frye and Curry. If an offense can be run through those guys, and your wings guard and play some D. That changes everything. Quite frankily.....

Curry, Frye, Rose, Crawford/Franchise, Marbury = lotto team

Curry,Frye, Kirk Synder, Shane Battier, Earl Watson = playoff team

its not all about names, or bloated contracts.


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## Gotham2krazy (Nov 22, 2005)

baller213 said:


> i don't get the big deal reporters make about knicks salary situation
> 
> i was looking at the salaries at hoopshype
> http://www.hoopshype.com/salaries/new_york.htm
> ...


hehs, we could've had more, had we not traded penny. but if penny's getting traded, they're all getting traded, don't be naive. this is the knicks franchise. i'd say trade stephon and franchise for some expiring max contracts soon like Chris Webber or Grant Hill


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## Zuca (Dec 4, 2003)

Your team may try to move in a little five team trade...

NY send Maurice Taylor to Sacramento and Q Richardson with the Chicago pick (which will be low) to Memphis;
Sactown move Vitaly Potapenko and Corliss Williamson to Memphis;
Seattle move Mikki Moore to Sacramento;
Memphis move Eddie Jones (a big expiring contract) and Cardinal to Orlando and Lawrence Roberson to Seattle;
Orlando move Grant Hill to NY and Pat Garrity to Memphis;

Seattle: I've just included them in reality in order to send Mikki to Sacramento; Roberson is a third stringer cheap PG;

Sacramento get in Taylor an expiring contract like Williamson, but adding MoT instead of CWill free up some PT to Monia; Mikki Moore can replace Potapenko;

Memphis: They get another draft pick, with a perimeter scorer in Q, a backup big C in Potapenko and a good defensive SF (to help filling A LITTLE BIT the void left by Battier) in Williamson, which also have an expiring contract. Garrity contract is cheaper and expire soon than Cardinal's one. It help to take Q long term contract.

NY: Grant Hill = useful player with an expiring contract. Enough said.

Orlando: Taking a better player in Eddie to teach some defense to JJ Redick isn't a bad thing at all. In Cardinal, a good option to backup both PF and SF.


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## Dean the Master (Feb 19, 2006)

As long as the Knicks don't load up long and huge contracts, the CAP would ultimately come down.


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## Cager (Jun 13, 2002)

I don't understand why the cap discussion is relevant. Unless the Knicks have a shot at being under the cap, which will never happen ( and shouldn't), the amount of money spent on players doesn't matter. The Knicks will always have the mid level and who cares if Dolan is paying a larger or smaller luxury tax amount ? The only problem is why spent so much money on lousy players that the Knicks struggle to be able to trade. The Knicks revenue stream should always allow the Knicks team salary to be over the luxury cap. Given the resources available, the Knicks should always be a lot better than they have been for a while now. Get someone who can do the job, be patient with him and in a few years the Knicks could be the Beast of the East again


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

i believe the big market teams should always be in the luxury tax , they have the resourses to pull a profit regardless.

the knicks cap situation to me is meaningless, Dolan can pay it and without making a stink about luxury boxes or a new arena ...almost every team is below the luxury tax but above the salary cap , so they like the knicks only have the MLE and LLE to spend on free agents .

the people who make a stink over the knicks cap situation are people worrying over a billionaire's chicken scratch , which is silly when you really stop to think about it.


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## EwingStarksOakley94 (May 13, 2003)

Zuca said:


> Your team may try to move in a little five team trade...
> 
> NY send Maurice Taylor to Sacramento and Q Richardson with the Chicago pick (which will be low) to Memphis;
> Sactown move Vitaly Potapenko and Corliss Williamson to Memphis;
> ...


where did you here this?


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## alphadog (Jan 2, 2004)

*Grinch...*

I respectfully disagree with you. While being able to afford being over the cap is something that major market teams can do, it still isn't the way to build a team. Almost every contending team has recieved help from FAs or the flexibilty to make moves based on being under the cap. Good fortune seems to play the remaining role (draft picks that turn into superstars and supporting stars=Dallas).
It seems that the Knicks will be relying on someone emerging as a real star from the young guys OR finding a team with a disgruntled superstar who MAY be willing to take back expiring cntracts and a player or two in return. So far, neither has happened and there is no real great trade scenario on the horizon. Wouldn't it have been nice to be able to TRY for Wade, Bosh, 'melo, or LJ? Or maybe the next be FA class?


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## different_13 (Aug 30, 2005)

heh.. Curry/Rose or Sweetney, Thomas, Tyrus Thomas/Rudy Gay(etc), Thaddeus Young (etc)

That Curry deal was just unbelievably bad...
Set the franchise back at least a year, possibly 2.

Oh, and NY can't trade the Chicago pick, as they don't have it yet. They keep their own pick until CHicago wants to swap. And I think the Bulls own the 2007 NY pick regardless of who has it.

ANother thing - when all these bad contracts finally run out, and the rookies are up for extensions - will they sign them? I can't see the team having improved all that much (as of yet), so they might just bolt. OR Dolan has to overpay them for them to stay, meaning the cap, once again, gets buggered.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: Grinch...*



alphadog said:


> I respectfully disagree with you. While being able to afford being over the cap is something that major market teams can do, it still isn't the way to build a team. Almost every contending team has recieved help from FAs or the flexibilty to make moves based on being under the cap. Good fortune seems to play the remaining role (draft picks that turn into superstars and supporting stars=Dallas).
> It seems that the Knicks will be relying on someone emerging as a real star from the young guys OR finding a team with a disgruntled superstar who MAY be willing to take back expiring cntracts and a player or two in return. So far, neither has happened and there is no real great trade scenario on the horizon. Wouldn't it have been nice to be able to TRY for Wade, Bosh, 'melo, or LJ? Or maybe the next be FA class?


as of this moment the knicks have dealt an expiring deal and ariza for francis a 3 time allstar...i would classify him as the disgruntled star you said the knicks have yet to aquire.

they have frye and curry 2 young players with real star potential, along with marbury , so thats 4 star type talents , how many do you need?

the knicks cap situation is what it is the group of wade LBJ bosh and melo will be free agents in 3-4 years and the knicks if they chose to will be under the cap, teams can decide get under and marbury and francis' deal will be up by that time, but by that time it may not even be needed, 

in truth its a statistical fact of sorts that most above MLE FA deals from other teams wind up being deals teams regret signing players to.

flexibility is nice but usually the teams with the most flexibility are the teams with the least amount of wins.


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## Zuca (Dec 4, 2003)

EwingStarksOakley94 said:


> where did you here this?


What did you want to ask me?


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## shookem (Nov 1, 2005)

*Re: Grinch...*



Da Grinch said:


> as of this moment the knicks have dealt an expiring deal and ariza for francis a 3 time allstar...i would classify him as the disgruntled star you said the knicks have yet to aquire.
> 
> they have frye and curry 2 young players with real star potential, along with marbury , so thats 4 star type talents , how many do you need?
> 
> ...



Exactly, I agree with most of your post but the last part really resonates with me. The Raps have been acquiring 'flexibility' for the last two seasons and haven't really put it to any good use. At least not to the point where I'd run my franchise definatly to have 'flexibility'.

As said earlier in this thread, the Knicks don't need to worry about the cap for this year or any year soon. The situation is what it is and so is the roster. Now squeeze those lemons for all it's worth.


*For what it's worth, I've predicted the Knicks to be 2nd in the Atlantic and seriously look at the playoffs based on the moves or non-moves so far this offseason. But I could be kidding myself.


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## alphadog (Jan 2, 2004)

*Couple of things....*

I would hardly call Francis a star at this point. I wouold also say the same for Marbury, although he is closer to a star. Teams can't rid themselves of him fast enough. Unless there is a huge turnaround in his career, he is just another overpaid NY Knick. It is also far too early to say if any (no less multiple) young players actually have star quality. I like them but let's not put our head in the clouds. 

Part of the reason flexibility did no good for the Raptors is that no one actually wanted to go there. Perhaps that is changing, but to date, they still have not been able to attract FAs there. If they won't come to your house, theres no sense in saving money for them. NY has a built in attractiveness as a major US market that will appeal to many players(especially stars) that smaller and foreighn markets do not. It would absolutely make sense for NY to position itself to bring a real star in.


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## EwingStarksOakley94 (May 13, 2003)

Zuca said:


> What did you want to ask me?


I wanted to know where you heard about this trade. Did you hear about it on the web or on the radio?


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## kconn61686 (Jul 29, 2005)

francis, marbury, curry = stars???

thats just poor. these guys have star-potential in the rucker league and nowhere else. they make your team alot worse because they are not team players and hardly understand the concept of playing cohesive defense. they dont improve the players around them. eddy curry can only last about 25 minutes in a game. if the knicks dropped these 3 team-cancers, they would be alot better. only one problem- not one team in the league truley desires these "star" players, simply because they don't want that awful contract for that overrated, selfish, or wasteful player they might get back.


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## Pain5155 (May 28, 2006)

why the hell did they take jalens contract?!


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## EwingStarksOakley94 (May 13, 2003)

kconn61686 said:


> francis, marbury, curry = stars???
> 
> thats just poor. these guys have star-potential in the rucker league and nowhere else. they make your team alot worse because they are not team players and hardly understand the concept of playing cohesive defense. they dont improve the players around them. eddy curry can only last about 25 minutes in a game. if the knicks dropped these 3 team-cancers, they would be alot better. only one problem- not one team in the league truley desires these "star" players, simply because they don't want that awful contract for that overrated, selfish, or wasteful player they might get back.


thanks captain obvious.

remind me to go to the nets board and announce that jason kidd beats his wife.


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## Truknicksfan (Mar 25, 2005)

> why the hell did they take jalens contract?!


Another great and well thought out post by mr.pain himself. :whatever:


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## Zuca (Dec 4, 2003)

EwingStarksOakley94 said:


> I wanted to know where you heard about this trade. Did you hear about it on the web or on the radio?


Oh... No, I haven't seen elsewhere, it was my idea...


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## kconn61686 (Jul 29, 2005)

> remind me to go to the nets board and announce that jason kidd beats his wife.


go do that


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## urwhatueati8god (May 27, 2003)

Pain5155 said:


> why the hell did they take jalens contract?!


That was maybe one of two moves that I've supported Thomas for. They were going to have a cap problem to begin with this year so at least they got a draft pick out of it. Of course they went and used it on Balkman when they basically have the same thing in David Lee, but we won't go there.


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## EwingStarksOakley94 (May 13, 2003)

kconn61686 said:


> go do that


sure thing... oh wait I have a life.


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