# Bulls offering Nocioni $38M



## Mr. T (Jan 29, 2004)

> *Bulls offering Nocioni $38M
> *
> Several twists and turns still could develop before the free-agent signing moratorium ends July 11.
> 
> ...


http://chicagosports.chicagotribune...bulls,1,2050305.story?coll=cs-bulls-headlines


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## King Joseus (May 26, 2003)

5 years, $38 M eh? Works for me.


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## theanimal23 (Mar 2, 2005)

Nice to see this deal on the table. I think we will end up retaining Noce as a Grizzlies offer even starting at 8 million will make Pax match. There are no better options out there. Although Noce isn't ideal at either forward position, everyone knows what a pest he is for opposing teams. We need to keep the man, and it looks like we will. I hope he takes as long as it takes to come back healthy. We need the Noce of old.

Currently, what is the Full MLE and over how many years?

Is it 5 years, 35 million?


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## McBulls (Apr 28, 2005)

Sounds like we can stop speculating about Nocioni going to Memphis in exchange for anyone but Gasol. The Bulls want Nocioni and are willing to pay for him. If Memphis wants him they'll have to trade their big guy.

In a sign and trade where Nocioni gets $46 million per year, Nocioni + Duhon is enough to deal with Gasol's salary. Anything else Memphis gets is wishes and hopes. We could throw in a protected 2008 pick and Gray to sweeten the deal just to thank their new GM for going half-way around the world to poach one of our rotation players.


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## Colombian BULL Fan (Feb 13, 2004)

Here`s a summary of what an Argentine Newspaper reported today:

Chris Wallace flew to Argentina on last Sunday to talk to Andres Nocioni and asked him if he would like to play in Memphis. He told Chapu that the idea of Memphis was not to trade Pau Gasol, but instead bring some players to town including obviuosly Andres Nocioni, Carlos Navarro from Barcelona (A close friend of Pau) and greek Theodoros Papaloukas.

Chapu travelled exclusively from Puerto Rico to meet him; they met in a restaurant on Monday afternoon, and Andres told him that he felt comfortable in Chicago, althought he liked Memphis´s idea. Finally they say that Wallace offered aprox. 46 Million for 5 years...

Here`s the link, in spanish  

http://www.ole.com.ar/notas/2007/07/05/01451057.html


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## rwj333 (Aug 10, 2002)

Jeez, that's a lot for a guy who should only average 20 minutes a game for us in a best case situation (Tyrus and Noah developing).


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## DengNabbit (Feb 23, 2005)

rwj333 said:


> Jeez, that's a lot for a guy who should only average 20 minutes a game for us in a best case situation (Tyrus and Noah developing).


i see him netting 25 mpg......10 min backing up Luol, 15 minutes as a PF. more than 15 at PF if Tyrus isnt taking the steps we all assume he will. skiles is big on which guys he can trust, and there's no doubt he trusts Noc.


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## mgolding (Jul 20, 2002)

How about a double sign and trade of Darko for Nocioni with Memphis.

While I much prefer Nocs fire and attitude to that of Darko, I think it gets lost that the guy is only 22 and did the equivilant of coming out of high school when he came into the league. IMO we would be basically without holes if Thabo becomes the big guard we'd all like him to be.


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## JeremyB0001 (Nov 17, 2003)

I think the Bulls' offer is smart. It clears out the teams who can only offer the MLE and if Noc truly wants to play for the Bulls as badly as he claims, he might not even sign an offer sheet with Memphis in an attempt to leverage more money from the Bulls.

I pretty much already posted this in another thread but Wallace seems to be outing himself as a highly inept GM right out of the gate. Why on earth you'd make Varejao and Noc your top two free agent targets with Gerald Wallace and Darko on the market is beyond me.


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## SecretAgentGuy (Jul 15, 2003)

Wow, $46 million for 5 years is a nice package. I love Noc but that's a lot of money for your 7th or 8th man. Other than Warrick, who might we be able to get in a sign and trade?


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## DengNabbit (Feb 23, 2005)

JeremyB0001 said:


> Why on earth you'd make Varejao and Noc your top two free agent targets with Gerald Wallace and Darko on the market is beyond me.


he's probably using that logic of: we have the uber-talented guys, now we need the 'guys who want it badly'

like he wants to be the next Bulls..... but i dont think his potential star guy is going to reach that (Gay)


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

5 years?! 

I hope this is a sign and trade scenario because if Nocioni is the Bulls biggest FA move then I have lost all hope that Pax is the man to lead us to the NBA Finals. Nocioni is a nice player but hes not even a fringe allstar in the east nor is he someone that you just CANT win without.


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## JeremyB0001 (Nov 17, 2003)

DengNabbit said:


> he's probably using that logic of: we have the uber-talented guys, now we need the 'guys who want it badly'
> 
> like he wants to be the next Bulls..... but i dont think his potential star guy is going to reach that (Gay)


Hmm. The ever illusive jib factor? I mean it's not like Wallace and Darko demand the ball all that much.

Maybe this is off topic, but is there something I'm missing about Gerald Wallace? Why isn't he the number one free agent target in the league by a mile? When you consider age (24), productivity (21.3 and 19.8 PER's the last two season), and his team's ability to match (he's unrestricted), I think he dwarfs everyone else on the market, including the stars like Billups. If my team were under the cap, I'd be offering him a $10 million a year deal for the maximum number of seasons.


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## DengNabbit (Feb 23, 2005)

thebizkit69u said:


> 5 years?!
> 
> I hope this is a sign and trade scenario because if Nocioni is the Bulls biggest FA move then I have lost all hope that Pax is the man to lead us to the NBA Finals. Nocioni is a nice player but hes not even a fringe allstar in the east nor is he someone that you just CANT win without.


even if we nontendered and signed Darko somehow, we wouldnt be replacing Noc's scoring.

Noc's actually a big part of our offense going into this year, and we'd have to find a way to get our 3 pt scoring up (hopefully not relying on JamesOn Curry for that)


we can belittle Noc all we want. but lets face it. the team was great against Miami when he was on his game, and it was awful when his scoring punch (and everything else he does) got taken out against Detroit.



i agree he's no fringe all-star, and he is replaceable. but we dont have the cap space to replace it right now, so losing him means making our 07-08 team WORSE than the 06-07. we cant count on the rookies or the FA market for anything, really.


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## JeremyB0001 (Nov 17, 2003)

thebizkit69u said:


> 5 years?!
> 
> I hope this is a sign and trade scenario because if Nocioni is the Bulls biggest FA move then I have lost all hope that Pax is the man to lead us to the NBA Finals. Nocioni is a nice player but hes not even a fringe allstar in the east nor is he someone that you just CANT win without.


Signing Noc doesn't trade off with our ability to sign free agents from other teams this season. Unless you chase the complex scenario where we renounce his rights and move a contract or two in an attempt to get under the cap and sign someone like Darko, we have the roughly $5.5 million MLE to offer free agents regardless of what happens with Noc. 

The only way signing Noc to an extension impacts the team in the future is if Reinsdorf continues to refuse to pay the luxury tax, in which case the $6 million or so a year we pay him might trade off with the money we have available to resign our current players and/or sign free agents.

Also you don't need to be a fringe All-Star (ie BG or Lu caliber) to be an important piece.

Is there something specific for which you want to earmark the money we're purportedly offering Noc?


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

JeremyB0001 said:


> I think the Bulls' offer is smart. It clears out the teams who can only offer the MLE and if Noc truly wants to play for the Bulls as badly as he claims, he might not even sign an offer sheet with Memphis in an attempt to leverage more money from the Bulls.


Agreed. 5/38M sounds about right for Noch IMO. Noch is a warrior and if he comes back healthy next season I'm all for it.


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## nanokooshball (Jan 22, 2005)

Wow that's avg of over 7 mil a year.... I thought the bulls would throw MLE... i guess its slightly higher tho. But, he's worth that if he plays like he did before he got injured for sure


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## Mr. T (Jan 29, 2004)

> *Griz putting full court press on free agents*
> 
> *Bulls' Nocioni at top of team's wish list*
> 
> ...


http://www.commercialappeal.com/mca/grizzlies/article/0,1426,MCA_475_5614849,00.html


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

A big reason as to why I'm not sold on Nocioni is because we don't know how hes going to recover from his Planter Fasciitis, its a very tricky injury that can be something that he will suffer from all his career. The best treatments for overcoming PF is plenty of rest which he is doing but also weight loss is recommended which is something that might hurt Nocioni, hes got good size on him and if he losses bulk, hes just not athletic or quick enough to make up for his loss in strength.

5 years is too long to give to Nocioni right now, 3 years fine but 5 years that's alot of years.


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## DengNabbit (Feb 23, 2005)

nanokooshball said:


> Wow that's avg of over 7 mil a year.... I thought the bulls would throw MLE... i guess its slightly higher tho. But, he's worth that if he plays like he did before he got injured for sure


offering MLE is like saying 'we dont want you'... anyone would love to have someone with good three point shooting, slashing and rebounding for just that.

we're all (not nano specifically) going to be prone to undervalue Noc, without thinking about it, because we have Deng. but Noc will be seen as a starting SF by many teams, especially ones short on toughness. he has skills to go along with that toughness. all that's enough to make people forget about his plantar fascitis.


a lot of guys get overpaid, who have few of Noc's gifts.


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## DengNabbit (Feb 23, 2005)

thebizkit69u said:


> 5 years is too long to give to Nocioni right now, 3 years fine but 5 years that's alot of years.



This is a good point, but again, if Pax is pretty sure already that Memphis will offer him 5 years, it's kind of pointless to offer 3 or 4. 

some guys, maybe not Noc, would take a three year offer as a slap in the face. maybe a mini-slap in the face, but just enough to get you seriously looking at other teams (that maybe you werent considering before).


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## LuCane (Dec 9, 2002)

JeremyB0001 said:


> Maybe this is off topic, but is there something I'm missing about Gerald Wallace? Why isn't he the number one free agent target in the league by a mile? When you consider age (24), productivity (21.3 and 19.8 PER's the last two season), and his team's ability to match (he's unrestricted), I think he dwarfs everyone else on the market, including the stars like Billups. If my team were under the cap, I'd be offering him a $10 million a year deal for the maximum number of seasons.


Well, considering he does his best work as undersized 4, it must be noted that he needs a specific type of "fit" in terms of whichever team inserts him into their lineup. So, unless you think his game will evolve to the point that he will be a "universal fit" at the 3 in the NBA, I suspect teams will be weary of throwing him (even with the positives you outlines) that amount of cash.


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## JeremyB0001 (Nov 17, 2003)

thebizkit69u said:


> A big reason as to why I'm not sold on Nocioni is because we don't know how hes going to recover from his Planter Fasciitis, its a very tricky injury that can be something that he will suffer from all his career. The best treatments for overcoming PF is plenty of rest which he is doing but also weight loss is recommended which is something that might hurt Nocioni, hes got good size on him and if he losses bulk, hes just not athletic or quick enough to make up for his loss in strength.


Do you have any examples of NBA players who have been hampered by PF for more than a year or two in their careers? Every player I know of that's suffered from it has recovered pretty quickly after resting the injury for a long period of time as Noc is supposedly doing this offseason. I don't have any reason to believe it will continue to be an issue for him.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

DengNabbit said:


> This is a good point, but again, if Pax is pretty sure already that Memphis will offer him 5 years, it's kind of pointless to offer 3 or 4.
> 
> some guys, maybe not Noc, would take a three year offer as a slap in the face. maybe a mini-slap in the face, but just enough to get you seriously looking at other teams (that maybe you werent considering before).


I dont know, I just think its stupid to sign Noc to a 5 year deal just because you dont want to lose him for nothing. If Pax is working on a trade and Nocionis contract makes that trade more of a possibility then fine get it done, but to sign him just *because* is too much of a risk especially when your thinking about extending Deng and Gordon next season.


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## JeremyB0001 (Nov 17, 2003)

LuCane said:


> Well, considering he does his best work as undersized 4, it must be noted that he needs a specific type of "fit" in terms of whichever team inserts him into their lineup. So, unless you think his game will evolve to the point that he will be a "universal fit" at the 3 in the NBA, I suspect teams will be weary of throwing him (even with the positives you outlines) that amount of cash.


Interesting. That would go a long ways towards offering an explanation. I haven't seen the guy play much but I was under the impression that he was more of a true three. What's the reason he's considered a better fit for the four? Is it defense? He's only 6'7 and shot almost two three's per game last season.


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## BeZerker2008 (Jun 29, 2006)

Chapu brings so much to this team & was a big part of our past success in the playoffs. If the Grizzlies aren't willing to part with Gasol then so be it. But if they would do a sign and trade for nocioni and others than I wouldn't see the problem in letting him go, sure it would be difficult to lose him but for a true PF it's too tempting.

If on the other hand we do retain nocioni, I hope pax could at leas land his PF targets in free agency.


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## JeremyB0001 (Nov 17, 2003)

thebizkit69u said:


> I dont know, I just think its stupid to sign Noc to a 5 year deal just because you dont want to lose him for nothing. If Pax is working on a trade and Nocionis contract makes that trade more of a possibility then fine get it done, but to sign him just *because* is too much of a risk especially when your thinking about extending Deng and Gordon next season.


I mean I know in theory that signing Noc and then being faced with huge extensions for Lu and BG could create major luxury tax issues for the team. I just have a kinda hard time seeing us letting either of those players walk away for nothing just to avoid the tax threshold. The PR hit would just be too massive to justify it and we should be a pretty successful team. I'm generally not that optimistic about Reinsdorf paying the luxury tax but I can't seem him blatantly allowing his best players to walk away just to save money. He'd be run out of town.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

JeremyB0001 said:


> Do you have any examples of NBA players who have been hampered by PF for more than a year or two in their careers? Every player I know of that's suffered from it has recovered pretty quickly after resting the injury for a long period of time as Noc is supposedly doing this offseason. I don't have any reason to believe it will continue to be an issue for him.


Well let me just say that PF doesnt turn you into a useless NBA player all your career, but it sure as hell slows you down and you do lose a step even if its a little bit. Glen Rice slowed down, Larry Hughes had a tough time trying to come back from it. It all depends on how well Nocioni recovers from it, like I said before its a very tricky injury and hopefully Nocionis people know how to handle his recovery. But I would still not give Noc a 5 year deal untill I was 100% sure that hes recovered from it.


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## SALO (Jun 6, 2002)

Memphis is stupid for offering that much. I'm probably in the minority on this, but I think it would be wise to cut ties with Noce now, while his value is still high enough that another team (Memphis) is actually willing to fork over $46M for him. 

Nocioni has lost quickness/athleticism in each one of his three seasons with us. Not a good sign for a guy that just turned 27. Even before the foot injury, Noce was noticeably slower at the beginning of the season than his previous two seasons. Am I the only one who's noticed this? He also seemed a lot more explosive (at least in highlights) before he came to the NBA. His physical abilities seem to be eroding faster than your typical player his age. 

Long-term, Tyrus Thomas is the guy we're counting on at PF. Noah will play there too, and I actually see Deng getting some run at the 4 spot as he continues to get stronger. 

At SF, Deng will get the bulk of the minutes, and rightfully so. And I personally believe that Thabo's best position is at SF. Tyrus doesn't have the offensive skills to play the 3, but I think he could definitely log minutes there defensively. 

As quickly as two seasons from now, I see Nocioni as a bit player getting 10-15 minutes per game, if that, and ulimately unhappy with his role here. 

However, if we agreed to S&T Nocioni now, a 5-year $46M contract outgoing to Memphis would net us a very large trade exception. We can receive a future draft choice, which maximizes the value of the trade exception since we won't be taking back any salary at all. Or we could take back Kyle Lowry (Duhon replacement), and Lowry's salary is small enough where our trade exception still becomes larger than the MLE. This is very important if Pax is serious about acquiring Darko. 

Then offer Duhon + Viktor to Utah for Matt Harpring. There's our Nocioni replacement right there. Duhon steps right in for the departed Derek Fisher. Viktor is a stop-gap SF rental in case they move AK-47 before the deadline. Both are expiring contracts, which is also helpful. 

Lineup:

C: Wallace, Noah, Gray
PF: Darko, Thomas
SF: Deng, Harpring
SG: Gordon, Thabo, Griffin
PG: Hinrich, Lowry, Curry

We still haven't even touched our MLE/LLE exceptions either, since we've used our trade exception from Memphis to acquire Darko.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

JeremyB0001 said:


> I mean I know in theory that signing Noc and then being faced with huge extensions for Lu and BG could create major luxury tax issues for the team. I just have a kinda hard time seeing us letting either of those players walk away for nothing just to avoid the tax threshold. The PR hit would just be too massive to justify it and we should be a pretty successful team. I'm generally not that optimistic about Reinsdorf paying the luxury tax but I can't seem him blatantly allowing his best players to walk away just to save money. He'd be run out of town.


I dont trust Reinsdorf one bit, this is the same guy who during the Jordan years said he would trade all of his NBA Championships for 1 World Series Ring. Reinsdorf loves his baseball team and lets just say that It took a World Series Championship in order for him to open up the checkbook and that was for his BABY. He will not pay the Luxury Tax unless we win the NBA title.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

SALO said:


> Nocioni has lost quickness/athleticism in each one of his three seasons with us. Not a good sign for a guy that just turned 27. Even before the foot injury, Noce was noticeably slower at the beginning of the season than his previous two seasons. Am I the only one who's noticed this? He also seemed a lot more explosive (at least in highlights) before he came to the NBA. His physical abilities seem to be eroding faster than your typical player his age.


I have seen him slow down and its a huge reason as to why I dont want him to sign for 5 years.



> Long-term, Tyrus Thomas is the guy we're counting on at PF. Noah will play there too, and I actually see Deng getting some run at the 4 spot as he continues to get stronger.


Well I'm not all that optomistic about Tyrus Thomas since I feel that hes going to be a life long off the bench type of player. Noah I still think hes going to be moved if a big time trade materializes. 
[/QUOTE]


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## LuCane (Dec 9, 2002)

JeremyB0001 said:


> Interesting. That would go a long ways towards offering an explanation. I haven't seen the guy play much but I was under the impression that he was more of a true three. What's the reason he's considered a better fit for the four? Is it defense? He's only 6'7 and shot almost two three's per game last season.


Wallace has been on my Fantasy squad, so I've seen him play quite a bit over the past couple seasons. Anyway, I've watched him play extremely well when he's able to bring 4s out to guard him, and then blow by them with his quickness (and finish with his athleticism). While you're right that he shoots a good deal of threes and has the physical characteristics of a "3", I can't help but acknowledge that his biggest impact comes in mismatches. He's almost like the ultimate utility player. Plus, he's injury-prone and often inconsistent. When Okafor and May were down this year, Wallace put up huge numbers bringing bigger guys outside.

For what it's worth, I like him a lot as a player, but he needs a solid complement at the 4 spot, IMO.


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## Mr. T (Jan 29, 2004)

> *Grizzlies could opt for Bulls' Nocioni *
> Bob Finnan, Morning Journal Writer
> 07/04/2007
> 
> ...


http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=18550203&BRD=1699&PAG=461&dept_id=46370&rfi=6


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/5mDe5NA_Sjg"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/5mDe5NA_Sjg" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

:azdaja:


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## SALO (Jun 6, 2002)

Rhyder said:


> <object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/5mDe5NA_Sjg"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/5mDe5NA_Sjg" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>
> 
> :azdaja:


Ok, that video convinced me... we gotta keep him. 

:rofl:


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## McBulls (Apr 28, 2005)

Let me see if I get the drift of this thread. 

Nocioni is a better than average NBA player, and certainly an above average player on the Bulls, who happen to have been an above average team since he joined it.

So, many seem to be afraid to give Nocioni an above average salary because they fear that the Bulls ownership, who are making more money than any other NBA team owners == including the owners of the financially pathetic Memphis Grizzlies -- will need to lay off other significant Bulls players because they are reluctant to have a salary base similar to that of other winning teams in the NBA. 

The fears of the penuriousness of Bulls ownership exist in spite of the fact it is the most profitable franchise in the NBA, is raising already high ticket prices by 10 %, had the one of the lowest team salary bases last year, and would have an even lower team salary next year after matching the Memphis offer to Nocioni.

I'm embarrassed to be a Bulls fan if the team allows the near-bankrupt Memphis Grizzlies steal Nocioni or force his trade in order to save a few million dollars of their ever growing profit.

Nocioni is not just an above average player, he's a proven winner who knows how to be part of a winning team. If the Bulls let him go for nothing or peanuts because the owners are cheap, they don't deserve the support of fans in the future.


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## Salvaged Ship (Jul 10, 2002)

McBulls said:


> Let me see if I get the drift of this thread.
> 
> Nocioni is a better than average NBA player, and certainly an above average player on the Bulls, who happen to have been an above average team since he joined it.
> 
> ...


I second that. Who cares about Reinsdorf's financial situation. He has likley become a billionaire because of the Bulls. Time to give some back for all those loyal fans who followed and lined your pockets when you refused to get rid of Krause and the team tanked for 7 years.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

Salvaged Ship said:


> I second that. Who cares about Reinsdorf's financial situation. He has likley become a billionaire because of the Bulls. Time to give some back for all those loyal fans who followed and lined your pockets when you refused to get rid of Krause and the team tanked for 7 years.


I'll third it, but I'm not holding my breath.

The sucky thing is, you never know with the Bulls what you're giving up by signing a guy today. They could pretty easily turn around tomorrow and say, give that we've already got all this salary committed to other guys, we ought not give it to someone else.

So the question is whether we really want Noc to be that "sign at all costs" guy. Well, how many teams out there feel good about paying their 6-7th man $6-7M a year?

Not many.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

Nocioni is a great ballplayer. I am surprised so many people seem to be undervaluing him. Have we forgotten what he did in the first round against Miami last season? (not this season  )

He's a fiery emotional leader who you know is always going to hustle. You could do a whole lot worse than having Noce as your 6th man. Personally I think Pax's offer was very smart and may have saved the Bulls about 700k a year. I think Pax's offer was preemptive to keep Memphis from putting anything official on the table. Of course if they seriously want to offer 46 over 5 Nocioni may bee asking them to put it on the table now. I doubt Wallace does it if he thinks he is just being used as leverage. Why tie up his money? I guess we will have to wait and see.

I assume this now makes Brown more likely as a sign & trade chip for Kobe? We can't sign Noce & then trade him right away can we? don't we have to wait like 3 mos? 

ACE


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## JeremyB0001 (Nov 17, 2003)

thebizkit69u said:


> Well let me just say that PF doesnt turn you into a useless NBA player all your career, but it sure as hell slows you down and you do lose a step even if its a little bit. Glen Rice slowed down, Larry Hughes had a tough time trying to come back from it. It all depends on how well Nocioni recovers from it, like I said before its a very tricky injury and hopefully Nocionis people know how to handle his recovery. But I would still not give Noc a 5 year deal untill I was 100% sure that hes recovered from it.


Hmm. I never knew Hughes had it. He also had some other injuries, right?

How old was Rice when he had it? He may have just been a step slower because he got old.


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## JeremyB0001 (Nov 17, 2003)

thebizkit69u said:


> I dont trust Reinsdorf one bit, this is the same guy who during the Jordan years said he would trade all of his NBA Championships for 1 World Series Ring. Reinsdorf loves his baseball team and lets just say that It took a World Series Championship in order for him to open up the checkbook and that was for his BABY. He will not pay the Luxury Tax unless we win the NBA title.


Sure, I just don't think you let Lu or BG walk away for nothing. Letting young, talented players like that walk away is close to unparalleled during the last few collective bargaining agreements and Reinsdorf isn't that terrible of a GM that he'd throw the financial success of his team down the drain like that. It'd only be so far removed from the Heat saying "Y'know I don't think we will resign DWade because it'll put us over the salary cap."

Edit: Also, in light of how ultra conservative Pax has been with the teams finances, do you really think he'd resign Noc is it substantially compromised his ability to resign his two best players?


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

Oh also, I don't think Noce is "slowing down" why would he at the ripe age of 27? What you saw this season was a guy with Plantar Fascitis trying to play through it, THATS what made him look slower not the onset of old age or the decrease of his atheleticism.

ACE


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## Aesop (Jun 1, 2003)

ace20004u said:


> Oh also, I don't think Noce is "slowing down" why would he at the ripe age of 27? What you saw this season was a guy with Plantar Fascitis trying to play through it, THATS what made him look slower not the onset of old age or the decrease of his atheleticism.
> 
> ACE


Also, in Noce's rookie year, there was a lot of talk from Skiles that he _needed_ to slow down. He often played out of control. Maybe some are confusing control with a skill decline.


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## McBulls (Apr 28, 2005)

MikeDC said:


> I'll third it, but I'm not holding my breath.
> 
> The sucky thing is, you never know with the Bulls what you're giving up by signing a guy today. They could pretty easily turn around tomorrow and say, give that we've already got all this salary committed to other guys, we ought not give it to someone else.
> 
> ...


Lots of teams are paying players big salaries who are not starters, and most playoff teams have at least five players who are making more than the MLE. 

The Bulls currently only have two players (Hinrich and Wallace) making more than the MLE. If they sign Nocioni, they will have 3. In two years Deng and Gordon will make 5. By the time Tyrus Thomas comes up for promotion, Wallace will be gone. 

Good grief, there is little prospect that the Bulls will have the salary structure of an average playoff team over the next three years. Crying poverty when you are dripping money is not creditable.


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## Mr. T (Jan 29, 2004)

Alternate title could be, "Wallace brings Ainge-Like Team Building Skills to Grizz".



> *Veteran Fisher makes Griz wish list*
> *By Ronald Tillery*
> *Contact *
> *July 5, 2007*
> ...


http://commercialappeal.com/mca/grizzlies/article/0,1426,MCA_475_5615882,00.html


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

Mr. T said:


> Alternate title could be, "Wallace brings Ainge-Like Team Building Skills to Grizz".


Nice one. Lol.


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## Mr. T (Jan 29, 2004)

If Pax hasn't talked to Memphis that seems inexcusable to me. It's public knowledge he'd like Gasol and Wallace is in and West is on the way out. Time to rekindle those trade talks and see what can be done even if Wallace's stance is he's keeping Gasol. 

If Pax hasn't made a call, you really have to question why. Is he relying on the same type of media reports that he constantly denies to guide his course of action? If a team is that interested in Fisher, maybe they'll take Hinrich, Tyrus or Noah, Noce and a future 1 for Gasol and Lowery with the customary cap ballast.

It certainly seems Paxson is telling the truth. No conversations for Kobe, none for Garnett, and now apparently none for Gasol. Pax, you falling in love with your picks or you still haven't gotten the memo to dial '9' to get out?


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## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

If Bulls let Noch due to a an overpayment of $8M over 5 years, just wait until you see the offers that Deng and Gordon get next summer.

Pax should know this game....given his $16M over 4 year overpayment to Big Ben.


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## narek (Jul 29, 2005)

Mr. T said:


> If Pax hasn't talked to Memphis that seems inexcusable to me. It's public knowledge he'd like Gasol and Wallace is in and West is on the way out. Time to rekindle those trade talks and see what can be done even if Wallace's stance is he's keeping Gasol.
> 
> If Pax hasn't made a call, you really have to question why. Is he relying on the same type of media reports that he constantly denies to guide his course of action? If a team is that interested in Fisher, maybe they'll take Hinrich, Tyrus or Noah, Noce and a future 1 for Gasol and Lowery with the customary cap ballast.
> 
> It certainly seems Paxson is telling the truth. No conversations for Kobe, none for Garnett, and now apparently none for Gasol. Pax, you falling in love with your picks or you still haven't gotten the memo to dial '9' to get out?


He could have called and gotten, "we're not trading Kobe", etc. In the case of Garnett, it seems he was the oen driving who McHale was talking to - Garnett wanted Phoenix.


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## Mr. T (Jan 29, 2004)

TomBoerwinkle#1 said:


> Nice one. Lol.


Or to paraphrase Chad Ford, "Only in the NBA could the GM of the team with the second worst record be brought in to save the team with the worst record."


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## Mr. T (Jan 29, 2004)

narek said:


> He could have called and gotten, "we're not trading Kobe", etc. In the case of Garnett, it seems he was the oen driving who McHale was talking to - Garnett wanted Phoenix.


But the media hasn't backed off the idea that Garnett to Phoenix, Stoudemire to Atlanta, and 3 + 11 to Minnesota was there for the taking. Usually where theres smoke theres fire. When Atlanta balked why wouldn't Paxson at least inquire if we could get in with our #9 and some of our talent? What harm is there in talking?

Were it not for the fact Pax doesn't seem to be talking to anyone who owns a superstar (coincidence$?) I thought there might be some lingering bad feelings over the Pierce talks in the past.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

> The Utah Jazz agreed to release Fisher from his contract Monday so he can concentrate on finding the best care for his 11-month-old daughter, Tatum, who was diagnosed with retinoblastoma, a cancerous tumor in her left eye.
> 
> The danger is that it could spread to her brain or the rest of her body. At St. Jude Children's Research Hospital, scientists and physicians work in tandem to translate laboratory discoveries into cures for retinoblastoma, according to the hospital's Web site.
> 
> ...



Fisher's family could add Chidren's Memorial Hospital or University of Chicago/Comer Children's Hospital to their treatment shopping list, making Chicago a viable destination.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

Mr. T said:


> But the media hasn't backed off the idea that Garnett to Phoenix, Stoudemire to Atlanta, and 3 + 11 to Minnesota was there for the taking. Usually where theres smoke theres fire. When Atlanta balked why wouldn't Paxson at least inquire if we could get in with our #9 and some of our talent? What harm is there in talking?
> 
> Were it not for the fact Pax doesn't seem to be talking to anyone who owns a superstar (coincidence$?) I thought there might be some lingering bad feelings over the Pierce talks in the past.


Huh? Every GM reported to be in that thing called it crap. It's media speculation with no basis in fact.

ACE


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## theanimal23 (Mar 2, 2005)

I want Noce to come back if it can be sure he will be back in his old form. One thing I did notice was Noce was slower at the beginning of the year than the 05-06 season. Did his Plantar Fasciatis start then or was it due to old age?

I think an offseason of rest and not playing Team Argentina basketball will help him out physically for the year. 

I am all for signing Noce if his contract down the line does not turn us away from resigning Thabo, Tyrus, and Noah due to luxury tax reasons. If it will become an issue, ship him off for two of the three: Lowry, Warrick, and Kinsey. I'd take the first two with the current makeup of our team. I don't how good Kinsey is although he came on strong at the end of the year.

We are at the point where we will not have cap-room until we rebuild again as a franchise. We will be close or will hit the Luxury Tax mark. I don't know what more JR will need to see to decide to pay it. We are on the cusp of being a consistant ECF team and possibly more if our three young guys - Tyrus, Thabo, and Noah become cringe All-Stars like the current core.

Keep Noce but not at the expense of last years and this years rookies.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

Mr. T said:


> If Pax hasn't talked to Memphis that seems inexcusable to me. It's public knowledge he'd like Gasol and Wallace is in and West is on the way out. Time to rekindle those trade talks and see what can be done even if Wallace's stance is he's keeping Gasol.
> 
> If Pax hasn't made a call, you really have to question why. Is he relying on the same type of media reports that he constantly denies to guide his course of action? If a team is that interested in Fisher, maybe they'll take Hinrich, Tyrus or Noah, Noce and a future 1 for Gasol and Lowery with the customary cap ballast.
> 
> It certainly seems Paxson is telling the truth. No conversations for Kobe, none for Garnett, and now apparently none for Gasol. Pax, you falling in love with your picks or you still haven't gotten the memo to dial '9' to get out?


I've no gripes about Garnett and Kobe. The ship has sailed for getting Garnett into a Bulls uniform. With only 1 yr on his contract and the likelihood he walks, I see little incentive to give up anything for him. And in Kobe's case, I genuinely believe Jerry Buss when he says he is not trading Kobe. They already lost Shaq, they're not giving up their lone marketable asset.

I tend to agree about Gasol though. They apparently like Nocioni, and they were very close to drafting Noah if reports were correct. That's good, it's a starting point. Pax should be inquiring to try and get Gasol here (with the caveat that we do not give up Luol Deng, and probably Ben Gordon, and MAYBE even Hinrich...everything else is fair game).


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## fl_flash (Aug 19, 2002)

I thought I read this here or possibly on a different board... Sign and trade Noch to the Grizz for a future first rounder. Let the Grizz protect it for a while - say lottery protected next year, top-7 protected for '09, top-3 protected in '10 and unprotected thereafter... By trading Noch rather than letting him go outright does two things. First, he can get larger pay increments and also another year if the parties so decide. He'll be that much happier to go if he's making a little bit more. Also, by trading him it should generate a fairly hefty trade exception.

Take that exception and use it to acquire Darko (or at least put the bulls as a front-runner as that exception will be greater than the MLE). Have the Magic S&T Darko to the Bulls for our 2008 first using the trade exception. It's not much for the Magic, but it'll be better than nothing that they'll get if they let him walk and Darko is happy to be making more than the MLE (he ain't getting $10 mil per - no way).

In essence you've swapped Noch for Darko and gotten a Grizzlies first out of it. I figure the Grizz to be bottom feeders for quite a while and so if you have to wait a few years for that deferred first, so be it. THe whole point of protecting the pick for a few years is to get the Grizz to go for the trade in the first place.

My understanding is that the Magic still hold Darko's bird rights. They've only withdrawn the QO; they haven't renounced him yet. I'm guessing they'll have to though in order to sign Lewis. I believe they'd have to move him first in a deal like the above and then they can sign lewis outright.

The Grizz get Noch and get to defer any payment to the Bulls for a while. The Bulls get Darko who'll hopefully replace Wallace as the center on this team and a future Grizz pick, Darko gets more than the MLE, the Magic get at least _something_ for Darko before they are forced to renounce him in order to sign Lewis.

I dunno. Just trying to think a little out of the box...


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## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

fl_flash said:


> My understanding is that the Magic still hold Darko's bird rights. They've only withdrawn the QO; they haven't renounced him yet. I'm guessing they'll have to though in order to sign Lewis. I believe they'd have to move him first in a deal like the above and then they can sign lewis outright.


I actually think the Magic need to move some of their guaranteed contracts like Battier before they can sign and trade Darko for a MLE or bigger contract. The NBA is going to consider Lewis already verbally signed.


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## charlietyra (Dec 1, 2002)

johnston797 said:


> I actually think the Magic need to move some of their guaranteed contracts like Battier before they can sign and trade Darko for a MLE or bigger contract. The NBA is going to consider Lewis already verbally signed.


Isn't Battier with Houston?


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## fl_flash (Aug 19, 2002)

johnston797 said:


> I actually think the Magic need to move some of their guaranteed contracts like Battier before they can sign and trade Darko for a MLE or bigger contract. The NBA is going to consider Lewis already verbally signed.


Is that accurate? (I honestly don't know). They still hold his Bird Rights until they renounce him and as such they can go over the cap to sign him (and then trade him). By cutting a deal for Darko in which no actual salaries come back, the Magic get to jettison his cap hold. Then complete the deal for Lewis right afterwards.

With respect to the verbal agreement; I don't think that holds any weight with the league. Once Rashard signs in ink on the dotted line - THEN the deal is done. Until that time, Lewis or the Sonics could still, conceivably, broker a different deal elsewhere.

Until the Magic actually, formally, renounce Darko he still carries a cap hold for the magic. With that hold, I believe they don't have enough to sign Lewis outright. They'd have to either trade him for nothing - and that can only be done to a team under the cap, or using a trade exception with a team over the cap - or renounce him completely. I suppose they could trade Darko and parts to Seattle for Lewis, but Seattle needs another young 7-footer like they need more rain (Swift, Petro, Sene).


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## Vintage (Nov 8, 2002)

charlietyra said:


> Isn't Battier with Houston?


He is.

I believe he meant Tony Battie.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

The consensus at the time was that this was a very good signing by the Bulls.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

More unrequited joy: http://www.basketballforum.com/chic...al-noc-back-afternoon-press-conference-2.html

In fact, it was said that injuries could be the number one thing that would hold this team back...and injuries have definitely pinged us this season.


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