# Randolph: "I'm better than Gasol"



## The_Franchise (Mar 30, 2003)

> Randolph wants the maximum deal — six years, $86 million like Memphis recently gave Pau Gasol, and says the Blazers’ offer thus far is at $69 million.
> 
> “I don’t know if it’s going to get worked out, but I hope so,” Randolph says. “There has to be a fair number there somewhere. All I know is, (the Grizzlies) gave Gasol a maximum deal. I think I’m better than Gasol.”


Personally I think a $70 million extension would be adequate for Randolph. He isn't better than Gasol, and does not deserve a max extension... especially with SAR on the team (should be able to resign him for around $9 million a year).



> Could it be that the Blazers are keeping Abdur-Rahim as a hedge against losing Randolph, to whom they may not be willing to pay top dollar? Could it be that Blazer brass is still considering Abdur-Rahim as its power forward of the future?


Even if SAR is the PF of the future... no way the Blazers let Randolph go for squat. If the Blazers give Randolph a huge extension he will still have a positive trade value.

http://www.portlandtribune.com/archview.cgi?id=26730


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## cimalee (Apr 17, 2003)

Zach is better than Gasol , bbetter inside and out , the numbers dont lie


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## cimalee (Apr 17, 2003)

Im wondering what has Gasol done to get the Max , Zach still has alot to prove but hes worth more than Gasol


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

Ehh, actually it is tough to make an argument about that, because if Pau was playing more, he could be getting about 24ppg.


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## cimalee (Apr 17, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> Ehh, actually it is tough to make an argument about that, because if Pau was getting 36-38mpg, he could be getting about 24ppg.




Pau is a solid player but hes kind of soft just my opinion


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## BlazerFanFoLife (Jul 17, 2003)

Pau is better then Zach overall at this point and time. He doesnt play as much and while he has a weaker post game he has a stronger outside game. Pau just killed in the Olympics. No offence to zach but Pau is taller more athletic and he understands how to pass and play defence.


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## ebott (Jan 7, 2003)

I'd rather have Pau than Randolph. Randolph is fairly 1 dimensional. Pau has a complete game. 

Granted, it’s a pretty important dimension and there’s the hope that in time he’ll improve in the things he is weak at. But for the time being Randolph is just an interior scorer that doesn’t play defense or get his team mates involved. Pau has earned his max extension. Randolph has not.


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## PorterIn2004 (Jan 1, 2003)

I agree with both ebott and BlazerFanFoLife. Then, even if you're not inclined to, Nash and Patterson have to consider the off the court stuff. Pau's been DA-like whereas Z-bo has had....incidents. Granted, individually many could be explained away -- who *hasn't* wanted to punch Ruben.  Still, there's a history there. As for the whole dog-fighting business, let's hope for everyone's sake (including the dogs') that Zach wasn't involved. However, even the greatest of Zach supporters would, I think, have to admit that between Zach and Pau, Zach seems the more likely of the two to be getting into that sort of trouble. In short, Zach's a risk that Pau simply is not.


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## BlayZa (Dec 31, 2002)

id take Pau over Zach no question

the only spot zach has him is in his willingness to bang down low - which is where Zach seems to get more frequently blocked in


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## PorterIn2004 (Jan 1, 2003)

The more I think about it, *if* the Bucks are willing to do some sort of Redd for Randolph trade right now, I'd pull the trigger. The only guys I'd be unlikely to let go in that deal would be SAR (they can't have *both* our PFs), Miles, Theo, and Telfair. Pretty much anyone else they might want I'd be ready to deal if I were the GM, including picks and cash.


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## Playmaker0017 (Feb 13, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>cimalee</b>!
> Zach is better than Gasol  , bbetter inside and out , the numbers dont lie


The game has TWO sides. It isn't just played on the offensive end.

You have to take a lot into consideration. Pau plays a lot less than Zach, and he also is a FAR superior defensive player both in man-to-man defense and team defense. 

I know you love Zach, but it really isn't a contest at this point.


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## MagnusPinus (Aug 27, 2003)

NO, you are not better than Pau:laugh:


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## CelticPagan (Aug 23, 2004)

If Gasol is so superior, why did Zach always beat him up one on one?


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## Playmaker0017 (Feb 13, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>CelticPagan</b>!
> If Gasol is so superior, why did Zach always beat him up one on one?


One-on-one matchups rarely are indicative of overall talent. 

Reef usually beat Garnett in one-on-one matchups... is he more talented? No. Not even close.

Play.


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## Blaze_Rocks (Aug 11, 2004)

:laugh:These opinions are weak...No way is Gasol better than Zach:rotf:


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## Ben1 (May 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>PorterIn2004</b>!
> I agree with both ebott and BlazerFanFoLife. Then, even if you're not inclined to, Nash and Patterson have to consider the off the court stuff. Pau's been DA-like whereas Z-bo has had....incidents. Granted, individually many could be explained away -- who *hasn't* wanted to punch Ruben.  Still, there's a history there. As for the whole dog-fighting business, let's hope for everyone's sake (including the dogs') that Zach wasn't involved. However, even the greatest of Zach supporters would, I think, have to admit that between Zach and Pau, Zach seems the more likely of the two to be getting into that sort of trouble. In short, Zach's a risk that Pau simply is not.


That's a very good point. 

Of the two, any unbiased fan would pick Pau over Zach.


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## Blaze_Rocks (Aug 11, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>PorterIn2004</b>!
> I agree with both ebott and BlazerFanFoLife. Then, even if you're not inclined to, Nash and Patterson have to consider the off the court stuff. Pau's been DA-like whereas Z-bo has had....incidents. Granted, individually many could be explained away -- who *hasn't* wanted to punch Ruben.  Still, there's a history there. As for the whole dog-fighting business, let's hope for everyone's sake (including the dogs') that Zach wasn't involved. However, even the greatest of Zach supporters would, I think, have to admit that between Zach and Pau, Zach seems the more likely of the two to be getting into that sort of trouble. In short, Zach's a risk that Pau simply is not.


Some of us just watch basketball for the fun of it...While others harp on legal troubles....


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## Playmaker0017 (Feb 13, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Blaze_Rocks</b>!
> Some of us just watch basketball for the fun of it...While others harp on legal troubles....


Watching for the fun of it is fine - but when you debate contracts, you have to take other things into consideration.

While YOU may not care about off-the-court issues ... as an investment, the team should care. It makes the pricetag a little riskier. 

If you fail to see this, then you fail to be in this debate.

Play.


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## Playmaker0017 (Feb 13, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Blaze_Rocks</b>!
> :laugh:These opinions are weak...No way is Gasol better than Zach:rotf:


And this opinion is valid and strong? This well-formed argument is somehow more accurate than those with actual points?

Zach scores a LOT more than Wallace and has more talent under the baset and away from the basket.

But, I'd take Wallace first. Why? Defense and intangibles.

The same reason I'd take Pau.

Play.


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## Blaze_Rocks (Aug 11, 2004)

Gasol is an injury waiting to happen...And if you havent noticed by now your opinion means jack to me.:thand:


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## Playmaker0017 (Feb 13, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Blaze_Rocks</b>!
> Gasol is an injury waiting to happen...


Wow. What empirical evidence you've supplied. 

Here .. how about this one:

Zach is an injury waiting to happen. Actually Zach is a leader of a drug cult and is sleeping with Osama Bin Laden. 

There is about as much substantiated proof of one as there is of the other.




> And if you havent noticed by now your opinion means jack to me.:thand:


Yeah, I guess your well constructed argument can be summed as:

"I don't like what you said, I can't defend my position and you smell like poopie and I'm telling my mommie on you."

Good, well thought out discussion. I'm proud of you. Now can we graduate first grade?

Play.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Blaze_Rocks</b>!
> Gasol is an injury waiting to happen...And if you havent noticed by now your opinion means jack to me.:thand:


so why didn't you say that to begin with? You're basing your opinion over who's better (zach vs pau) on some assumed condition that is hard to calculate.

Gasol is better than Zach, in the sense that his game is much more complete. Thats not to say that Pau is really a complete player, just that Zach is further from being one. Pau averages over 3 times as many blocks per game too.

This isn't to say that Zach can't become a better player (no one is complete when they start out, cept for a select few..and neither of these guys is of that group). And thats not to say that Pau won't be. Neither one, if one is better than the other, is a clear cut choice over the other. 

You'll get some fans who think Pau is better because of the Olympics (which is kind of odd to use as the barometer) and you'll get others who think Zach is better because his ppg and rpg are better.

You'll get some fans who blindly follow their team and think that their player is best of all, and think that anyone who thinks otherwise (or dares to think otherwise) is foolish.

Each has intangibles, and each is young and WILL improve. In some aspects, Pau is ahead (defense) and in some aspects, Zach is ahead (offense). And in some aspects neither is ahead (overall strength, and power).


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## Scout226 (Sep 17, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Ben</b>!
> Of the two, any unbiased fan would pick Pau over Zach.


ALL unbiased fans would pick Pau? I think that's a stretch. I've watched Pau a fair number of times and followed his game, and I don't find Pau to be hands down better than Zach. 

Some people mentioned Pau's D. From what I've seen, it isn't that great. He's kind of soft, and isn't that physical. If they were both $5 mil players, I'd pick Zach, but if they both are max players, I'd rather have Pau since he's probably not going to have legal issues.

Also, with Pau getting maxed out(which he's definitely not worth it), and if Zach thinks he's worth a max(which he's not worth it either) and isn't going to budge, if I was Nash, I'd switch plans and resign SAR and trade Zach.


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## Blaze_Rocks (Aug 11, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Playmaker0017</b>!
> 
> 
> Wow. What empirical evidence you've supplied.
> ...


Or it could be that I dont feel like arguing today...But keep thinking everything you type matters..


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Blaze_Rocks</b>!
> Gasol is an injury waiting to happen...And if you havent noticed by now your opinion means jack to me.:thand:


Why is that, because he has missed 4 games in his career?


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## Blaze_Rocks (Aug 11, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Schilly</b>!
> 
> Why is that, because he has missed 4 games in his career?


I dont know know you tell me..


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## cimalee (Apr 17, 2003)

Those who dont think so well see this year


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## HOWIE (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Schilly</b>!
> 
> Why is that, because he has missed 4 games in his career?


Got proof? Got a link? Come on now, don't you think that number is a little high there Schilly?


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## cimalee (Apr 17, 2003)

Zach brings it every night something Gasol doesnt do , Zach is a better offensive player both not great on d yet , but unbiased with my eyes closed Id pick Zach over Pau


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## Playmaker0017 (Feb 13, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>cimalee</b>!
> Zach brings it every night something Gasol doesnt do


What are you talking about? 

You honestly believe this stuff you say?



> Zach is a better offensive player both not great on d yet


Great? He's awful. He isn't even good enough on defense to be mentioned as "not great" ... he's "not even good" yet. At this point he's barely watchable.



> but unbiased with my eyes closed Id pick Zach over Pau


I don't think it is possible to separate the homer side of your opinions to be able to say Zach and unbiased in the same sentence.

Play.


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## cimalee (Apr 17, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Playmaker0017</b>!
> 
> 
> What are you talking about?
> ...




I do believe what I say because you think different dont respond to my posts , let somebody talk about Shareef you will be the first one replying with something to say .


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>cimalee</b>!
> Zach brings it every night something Gasol doesnt do , Zach is a better offensive player both not great on d yet , but unbiased with my eyes closed Id pick Zach over Pau


You are far from unbiased. You are a huge pro-Zach supporter. 

I take Gasol, because if Gasol was playing Zach's minutes, his numbers would be even better (and he would be in the All-Star game). 

Until Zach plays more than one side of the court and passes the ball out of double teams, oh and leads the Blazers to the playoffs as the go-to guy, then there's a difference between the two.

I can see why his agent wants to get the deal now, because with the looming new CBA or lockout, less money if he takes later, especially if the Blazers have a bad year. He wants that payday now.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Blaze_Rocks</b>!
> :laugh:These opinions are weak...No way is Gasol better than Zach:rotf:


What an educated response


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

Per minute wise Gasol scores more points.


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## cimalee (Apr 17, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> 
> 
> You are far from unbiased. You are a huge pro-Zach supporter.
> ...




Yes im a huge Zach supporter if a player was better than him I would say so but gasol is not my opinion


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## cimalee (Apr 17, 2003)

Gasols has gotten playing time since he was a rookie , Zach has just finally started to get some last year .

Zach still has alot to prove I agree with that


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Blaze_Rocks</b>!
> I dont know know you tell me..


You're the one claiming he is an injury waiting to happen...That is a tag usually used on guys who chronically miss a lot of games, guys who routinely miss large chenks of seasons do to injury....

Derek Anderson
Vince Carter
Grant Hill

The fact that Gasol has only missed 4 games total in 3 seasons of play at this point completely blows the theory, that he is an injury waiting to happen, out of the water.


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## Blaze_Rocks (Aug 11, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>BEEZ</b>!
> 
> 
> What an educated response


Word to that homes. :laugh:


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## Blaze_Rocks (Aug 11, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Schilly</b>!
> 
> You're the one claiming he is an injury waiting to happen...That is a tag usually used on guys who chronically miss a lot of games, guys who routinely miss large chenks of seasons do to injury....
> 
> ...


Just wait....All of us are speculating anyway....The season hasnt even started yet...But of course I'm uneducated and my opinion is always wrong...Mostly I post here to watch people break rules that I get called on.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>cimalee</b>!
> Gasols has gotten playing time since he was a rookie , Zach has just finally started to get some last year .
> 
> Zach still has alot to prove I agree with that


Same age cuz. Doesn't matter if Gasol got more minutes as a rookie. Where not talking about rookie years? Gasol is primed to have Memphis a playoff contender for the next decade, is Zach?

He would score more than Zach if he played more minutes, so since he doesn't play more minutes in Hubie's system that makes Zach a better scorer? Not in this situation, sorry to say.

So if the one thing that Zach does best is scoring and Gasol is at least his equal in that department and Gasol has the chance to be an offensive weapon getting big numbers in his prime, what makes Zach better than him? 

Just because you like him more? :uhoh:


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## SheedSoNasty (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Blaze_Rocks</b>!
> I dont know know you tell me..


OK, we all know that it's you, DirtMcMoses... you can stop pretending now


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## Blaze_Rocks (Aug 11, 2004)

*<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<*

^^My name is Jerome...I pretend to be NO one but myself, thanks for caring though.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Blaze_Rocks</b>!
> Just wait....All of us are speculating anyway....The season hasnt even started yet...But of course I'm uneducated and my opinion is always wrong...Mostly I post here to watch people break rules that I get called on.


they aren't breaking the same rules you have broken.


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## Blazerfan024 (Aug 15, 2003)

I love how everyone Speculates that if Pau got more minutes he would score more thats crap, because until he actually shows it its all speculation, Zach has showed he can score and the stats dont lie. Pau is better On d but not by much, and better as a team player which I hope zach fixes this year. Everyone can speculate all they want but until he actually proves it Zach is the better player IMO.


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## Blaze_Rocks (Aug 11, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Hap</b>!
> 
> 
> they aren't breaking the same rules you have broken.


Oh really? You never responded to my double standard comment...:no:


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## PorterIn2004 (Jan 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Blaze_Rocks</b>!
> Some of us just watch basketball for the fun of it...While others harp on legal troubles....


It doesn't matter whether or not you or I want to "harp" on legal troubles. Nash and Patterson *must* factor it in because they have to be concerned about PR. And then there's the point that, with enough legal trouble, a player's on court performance might get impacted.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Blaze_Rocks</b>!
> Oh really? You never responded to my double standard comment...:no:


where is it? I might have missed it.

see, the point is..if you find that one of us mods missed something, send us a PM about it. Complaining about it in an open forum doesn't do you any good.


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Blaze_Rocks</b>!
> Mostly I post here to watch people break rules that I get called on.


What rules would those be? This ought to be good... 

I thought you weren't going to post for a month plus until the season started? You told us all off about how we (as a community) are so negative and so on... one week later you're back to pass yourself as a martyr? 

Get a grip. 

STOMP


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

please disregard my last post... Hap is right about complaints about the rules should be handled through PMs... sorry again

STOMP


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## cimalee (Apr 17, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Blazerfan024</b>!
> I love how everyone Speculates that if Pau got more minutes he would score more thats crap, because until he actually shows it its all speculation, Zach has showed he can score and the stats dont lie. Pau is better On d but not by much, and better as a team player which I hope zach fixes this year. Everyone can speculate all they want but until he actually proves it Zach is the better player IMO.




Thats what im saying what I see from Pau he disappears alot in games


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## AMR (Oct 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>cimalee</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


what games?
the playoffs?
he was playing injured, that's why he missed the end of the regular season...

did he dissapeared in the Olympics? well, he's done better than his average games in every final or important game in Europe...

I don't think Randolph is much better than Stromile Swift, Zach is just an stat-filler


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## Blaze_Rocks (Aug 11, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Hap</b>!
> 
> 
> where is it? I might have missed it.
> ...


It was in a PM....


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## Blaze_Rocks (Aug 11, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>STOMP</b>!
> 
> 
> What rules would those be? This ought to be good...
> ...


:uhoh: I'm rarely on this board, I just happened to be bored at work today..Implying things about others is in the rules or so I thought....I wonder how may of you have been warned?


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Blazerfan024</b>!
> I love how everyone Speculates that if Pau got more minutes he would score more thats crap, because until he actually shows it its all speculation, Zach has showed he can score and the stats dont lie. Pau is better On d but not by much, and better as a team player which I hope zach fixes this year. Everyone can speculate all they want but until he actually proves it Zach is the better player IMO.


You just pointed out 2 things that Pau was better than Zach yet you still say hes better? Im confused


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

These Zach supporters just can't be reasoned with, can they?


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## jackiejackal (Nov 7, 2002)

Gasol without question. A Tim Duncan like player in the making.
Plus you won't find him on the police blotter.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Blaze_Rocks</b>!
> It was in a PM....


than I did respond, and you just didn't like my response.


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## Blaze_Rocks (Aug 11, 2004)

^^^No you didnt you blew me off and went on vacation.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Blaze_Rocks</b>!
> ^^^No you didnt you blew me off and went on vacation.


oh wait, I remember now. I told you to talk to someone else about it because I was going away for a week.

It's not my fault if you didn't contact another mod or admin about your issue with how you believe we mod the board.


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## handclap problematic (Nov 6, 2003)

I like how people think that there should be a difinitive answer to this question. It is ok to disagree about things and especially situations like these that are highly debatable. I would personally rather have Zach over Pau. I couldn't really tell you who is better now or who will be better in the future because there are really too many factors involved. I just like how Zach plays the game better. Zach is a mean animal out there. When you gaurd him you are likely to get an albow in the face as he scores. This is a horrible analogy, but he is like a pitbull with the ball in his hands. That is what I like about Zach. I think Pau's coach Hubie said it best when he said "Zach is a beast downlow" and "He is going to be really good". If you don't remember that came after Zach took it to Pau for 30+ points and 20+ rebounds. Pau in my opinion is a bit more graceful. He plays to me like a ballerina in a way. And I don't mean that as a putdown, he is beautiful to watch. I just prefer the mean conflagration that Zach brings as apposed to the swooping grace of Pau. These are just my opinions. I don't know who is technically better(if that is even something that can be tangibly conjured). Anyways, 
Now...... is it ok for me to have this opinion? I see the hound dogs coming down on anyone who prefers Zach.....so Am I allowed to have this opinion?
Thanks.


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## Goldmember (May 24, 2003)

I think they're both about equal but I would rather have Zach. It's all about entertainment for me and Zach is just a lot more fun to watch. 

And Pau is a Euro and they are usually soft and none have led an NBA team anywhere.


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## cimalee (Apr 17, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jackiejackal</b>!
> A Tim Duncan like player in the making.
> Plus.


:laugh:


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## s a b a s 11 (Dec 31, 2002)

*ban emoticons*

I don't think i've seen so many annoying emoticons as i've seen in this thread. 

Stuart


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## MAS RipCity (Feb 22, 2003)

I would take Zach over Gasol without hesitating. Power Forwards are supposed to bang down low and enjoy the physical aspects of the game and Zach does just that. He is a beast in the paint, either when he is trying to score or rebound. You cannot contain Zach on the glass. Pau is a nice player, but I don't think he is as good of a scorer than Zach, and he isn't the fighter on the glass that Zach it. Don't get me wrong, Pau is a very nice Power Forward, but Zach has that drive to be the best in the game. You can hear see it in his eyes when he is on the court. During last season, Zach did have some teammate issues, because he would pout when he came out of hte game and he didn't always cheer for his guys on the bench,like others did. But that has all changed. I rarely see him whining when he comes off the court and he is now the first one off the bench to stand up and cheer when he sees a nice play. For example, he was up laughing and yelling almost every play during the Bobcat exhibition game when Telfair was "woo-ing" everyone. This will only be Zach's second year starting, his defense will come along. His passing and his ability to hit the open man improved each game past the All-Star break last year. What I am trying to say, is that the kid is only going to get better. I laugh every time someone think's Pau plays so much better defense then Zach. His defense is a little better, but nothing to make an arugment over. And that is only because he is taller. To me, Pau is extremely soft. Zach has already shown he can and will abuse Pau down low. Right now, there is only 2 PF's I'd take over Zach for just this year,and that is KG and Duncan, but in a year or 2, Zach is going to be the creme of the crop. Believe That.


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## 4-For-Snapper (Jan 1, 2003)

I hate to do this, but I have to agree with what Playmaker0017 is saying.:| 

Gasol has proven time and again how complete his game is. Most recently was the Olympics. Gasol tore it up. He is a smooth defensive player, and his offensive game is on par with, if not better than, Zach's.


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## jackiejackal (Nov 7, 2002)

Hey CIM..
Before you do too much laughing at my comment,read what 4 for snapper said.

That was an excellent post. !

He looked like a million bucks in the Olympics..

He gets better every year,and he is so darn young.
What on earth do you find so funny ??

Zach is a terrific player,but man for man I would pick
Pau. I have followed all his games on the League Pass.

His attitude is terrific,he is more versatile than Zach.
I am seeing some traits in Zach I don't like.

Plus,in all honesty I like a guy with a clean record.

Still laughing???


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Goldmember</b>!
> I think they're both about equal but I would rather have Zach. It's all about entertainment for me and Zach is just a lot more fun to watch.
> 
> And Pau is a Euro and they are usually soft and none have led an NBA team anywhere.


Neither have midget PFs that don't know how to pass.

Zach's best traits are offense and Pau is a better offensive player than ZBo, although I think they are both on the same tier as NBA players. However, I don't watch enough Portland games to judge ZBo's room for improvement. Pau has not reached his ceiling yet and is one of the top 5 post players in the NBA.

IMO the problem isn't Pau's contract, the problem is your idiot GM extended Ratliff before he extended Randolph. If there was any chance of getting a discount, he blew it. The question is not whether Randolph is better than Pau but is he more valuable to Portland than Ratliff?


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## Ben1 (May 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Blazerfan024</b>!
> I love how everyone Speculates that if Pau got more minutes he would score more thats crap, because until he actually shows it its all speculation, Zach has showed he can score and the stats dont lie. Pau is better On d but not by much, and better as a team player which I hope zach fixes this year. Everyone can speculate all they want but until he actually proves it Zach is the better player IMO.


I love how you're speculating as well regarding Zach's ability to play within the team.


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## jackiejackal (Nov 7, 2002)

Playing within a team is Pau all the way.

As good as Zach is..and he is good !!

I am not particularly fond of him as a person/player.


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## cimalee (Apr 17, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jackiejackal</b>!
> Hey CIM..
> Before you do too much laughing at my comment,read what 4 for snapper said.
> 
> ...



well see this year , Didnt Zach drop 31 & 20 on the griz as a bench player . Gasol has never done that 

No need for debating we all have different opinions


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## jackiejackal (Nov 7, 2002)

"no need for debating"

just insert laughing..

I see..

whatever


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## Goldmember (May 24, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>MemphisX</b>!
> 
> 
> Neither have midget PFs that don't know how to pass.


Zach is no midget. He's taller than Karl Malone and Charles Barkley, both of whom have led their team to the finals. And Zach knows how to pass, it's not his fault that his teammates stand still when he has the ball. When his teammates cut, he has shown the ability to make the extra pass.


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## PorterIn2004 (Jan 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Goldmember</b>!
> 
> 
> Zach is no midget. He's taller than Karl Malone and Charles Barkley, both of whom have led their team to the finals. And Zach knows how to pass, it's not his fault that his teammates stand still when he has the ball. When his teammates cut, he has shown the ability to make the extra pass.


 I'm totally with you that height isn't necessarily an issue (though I suspect that PFs are taller now, on average, than when Barkley was playing). And it's also true that the rest of the team is often standing around a lot. 

That said, it also seems to me that when Zach has the ball down low, we can almost count on one of four main things happening: Zach scores; Zach missing but getting his own rebound and then scores; Zach misses and the other team gets the rebound; or a turnover. Occasionally something else happens: Zach hits an open teamate; another Blazer gets the rebound; there's a foul called and play stops; etc. Really though, it seems to me that it's usually one of the first four. And, all in all, that's fairly impressive as most of the time we're left with Zach shooting .500. That's nothing to sneeze at. Still, how many more times will we have to watch Zach get stripped as he tries to take the ball end to end?


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## MARIS61 (Apr 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Playmaker0017</b>!
> 
> Reef usually beat Garnett in one-on-one matchups...


If by "usually" you meant "NEVER!", then I'll agree with you.:no:


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>MARIS61</b>!
> 
> 
> If by "usually" you meant "NEVER!", then I'll agree with you.:no:


Im not exactly sure what you mean by your statement, but head to head over the course of their careers. Head to head SAR normally outperforms KG. Whether those teams have won or not is not the question here but usually Reef has the better game of the 2.


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## B_&_B (Feb 19, 2004)

When are you guys going to learn?... put Blaze_Rocks on your ignore list!!!

IMO, Pau is a much more complete player than Zach. And the fact that Pau doesnt get himself into trouble is an added bonus.


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## Playmaker0017 (Feb 13, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>MARIS61</b>!
> If by "usually" you meant "NEVER!", then I'll agree with you.:no:


It really doesn't matter whether or not you agree or disagree, the statistics are factual evidence.

Reef usually outscores and outrebounds Garnett when they play. 

Play.


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## Blaze_Rocks (Aug 11, 2004)

^^Post them stats.


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## TheBlueDoggy (Oct 5, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Blaze_Rocks</b>!
> ^^Post them stats.



Hmmmm.... 

Feb 4, 2004 Atlanta 97, Minnesota 89

SAR 11 of 21 FG, 10 of 10 FT, 14 rebounds, 5 assists, 0 TO, 1 steal, 32 points.

KG 7 of 24 FG, 3 of 4 FT, 12 rebounds, 6 assists, 2 TO, 2 steal, 17 points.



January 2, 2004 Minnesota 93, Atlanta 75

SAR 5 of 15 FG, 5 of 7 FT, 6 rebounds, 1 assist, 0 TO, 0 steal, 15 points.

KG 7 of 21 FG, 4 of 5 FT, 15 rebounds, 4 assists, 4 TO, 1 steal, 1 block, 18 points.


SAR seriously outplayed KG in that Febuary game... the Januyary game seems pretty even stat wise, with KG with a slight edge (although 4 TO's makes that edge significantly less than it could be).

That's from last season while SAR was on the Hawks. I have no idea what their numbers were like on years before. It certainly supports the argument that SAR outplayed KG though... wonder what the other seasons looked like.


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## Playmaker0017 (Feb 13, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Blaze_Rocks</b>!
> ^^Post them stats.


Blaze,

Yeah, I'll go cull them from where?

I'm sure someplace has it, but I don't know where to pull them out. I watched the games and remember thinking --- damn, Reef dominated statistically.

So, again, whether you agree or disagree - the simple fact is - Reef has won the overall head-to-head matchups.

Does that make him a better player than Garnett? No, probably not. It just goes to show that head-to-head matchups are not indicative of overall talent. 

Play.


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