# Orlando Magic @ Toronto Raptors Game Thread



## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

Monday January 3, 2005
Orlando Magic vs. Toronto Raptors, 7:00 p.m. ET









Orlando Magic (15-13) 
Coached by: Johnny Davis 

Projected Starting Lineup:




































S. Francis  | C. Mobley  | Grant Hill  | D. Howard  | K. Cato 

Key Reserves:






















T. Battie  | H. Turkoglu | P. Garrity 












Toronto Raptors (10-21)
Coached by: Sam Mitchell  

Projected Starting Lineup:




































R. Alston | M. Peterson | E. Williams | C. Bosh | R. Araujo

Key Reserves:






















J. Rose | M. Bonner | D. Marshall 



Key Matchup:
Battle of the Point Guards















Steve Francis vs. Rafer Alston


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

Should be an intresting game, Toronto got flat out embarassed last time, by far their worst performance of the season. They are a better team at home so this should be close.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

All I have to say is...what the ****?

I leave town for a week and come back to see the Magic losing three straight games to the Knicks, Bucks and Bulls!?!? :upset: 

The Raptors are only 10-21 this season, but they're 8-4 at home. I don't know what the effect of not having Vince Carter anymore may or may not be, but it's definitely something to consider. The Magic really need to win this game, and really should whether it's on the road or not. Johnny Davis needs to rally the troops and win this one in Toronto tonight.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Turkish Delight</b>!
> Should be an intresting game, Toronto got flat out embarassed last time, by far their worst performance of the season. They are a better team at home so this should be close.


It shouldn't be close, but the way Orlando is playing lately, it might be. Or even worse, it might not be close, but in Toronto's favor. 

Hopefully Orlando can give up less than 30+ points in the first quarter this game.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

Nice start, 12-8 so far and Hill's missed two shots he'll make 9 times out of 10.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

Of course, I say that and the Raptors go on a 6-0 run to take the lead. Pretty lousy defense from the Magic as Loren Woods goes uncontested through the lane for a dunk.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

How the hell did that go in?


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## vi3t_boi11 (Aug 14, 2004)

that should of been a three point play


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

Holy crap, Mario Kasun got BOSH'D! 

Horrible, horrible end to this quarter after a pretty good start. Once Francis left the game with 2 fouls the Magic have been awful. 

And damn, that was a hard foul on Hill. Practically the entire team was helping him up within one second. :laugh:


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## Dathomieyouhate (Jun 21, 2003)

i remember when you guys where talking trash how the magic are so great.. fukk outta here they suck as bad as us..


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## heyitsme (Feb 20, 2004)

I knew some idiot Raptor fan would respond :laugh:


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## Captain Obvious (Jun 15, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Dathomieyouhate</b>!
> i remember when you guys where talking trash how the magic are so great.. fukk outta here they suck as bad as us..


Raptors: 10-21
Magic: 15-13

Troll elsewhere. Thanks.


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## heyitsme (Feb 20, 2004)

Did I mention our defense really, really sucks? :laugh:


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## heyitsme (Feb 20, 2004)

Down 58-45 at halftime. Hill playing like crap, Howard, again, doesn't get the ball after some early touches. Cato banged up his ankle and we haven't played a lick of defense, again.


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## Dathomieyouhate (Jun 21, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Captain Obvious</b>!
> 
> 
> Raptors: 10-21
> ...


not for long... you guys are trash i remember when you guys were saying orlando is the better team talking all this smack like you guys are contenders.. ***** please when we get them nice picks will be whooping that magic *** like we're doing tonight... that is all goodbye


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## DwyaneWade4MVP (Apr 1, 2004)

45-58 for toronto at halftime! Doesn't look very good for Orlando right now, they have to start to defend...Cato is leading scorer at halftime with 9


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## Captain Obvious (Jun 15, 2003)

This is horrible. What happened to this team?


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## heyitsme (Feb 20, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Dathomieyouhate</b>!
> 
> 
> not for long... you guys are trash i remember when you guys were saying orlando is the better team talking all this smack like you guys are contenders.. ***** please when we get them nice picks will be whooping that magic *** like we're doing tonight... that is all goodbye


The Magic are banged up and in a slump. They are a MUCH better team than Toronto


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

We're not getting on the boards like we did earlier in the year. That is big because no boards means no fastbreaks. Couple that with porous defense and we are stuck running half-court offense which we haven't been great at.

0-8 combined for Hill and Turk too. That hurts.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Dathomieyouhate</b>!
> 
> 
> not for long... you guys are trash i remember when you guys were saying orlando is the better team talking all this smack like you guys are contenders.. ***** please when we get them nice picks will be whooping that magic *** like we're doing tonight... that is all goodbye


You think you'd at least wait until you won the game to talk trash. Or at least, had a better record than 10-21.  

Anyhow, the Magic flat out need to play smarter basketball, and they need to play like they want to win. I don't see the effort out there, especially defensively.


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

Magic are still in this, trying to close out the 3rd quarter on a high note.


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

83-68 at the end of the 3rd. 
Magic are 2-9 when trailing after 3.


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## heyitsme (Feb 20, 2004)

The Magic have no shot coming back, they are playing completely horrible as of late, and Dwight needs more frickin' touches. Ridiculous.


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

Dwight schooled Bosh in Orlando, and CB4 is returning the favour here in Toronto.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>heyitsme</b>!
> The Magic have no shot coming back, they are playing completely horrible as of late, and Dwight needs more frickin' touches. Ridiculous.


Orlando always has a shot at coming back because we are capable of dropping 10-12 pts in just a couple of minutes. But we'd have to play some defense to do that.


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## heyitsme (Feb 20, 2004)

Bosh has outplayed Howard this game, which I expected him to do but he still needs more touches. He has a HUGE strength advantage on Bosh and could push him around down low if they gave him the ball.


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

Magic making a game out of it.
87-80 Raptors


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

Jameer Nelson! Igniting the Magic comeback, Orlando within 7 with plenty of time to go. God, this would be a huge come from behind victory for us, and we _really_ need this one.


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## heyitsme (Feb 20, 2004)

Just like that, Toronto up 12 again. This team could care less and Dwight has played by far his worst game of the season. BY FAR.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

Francis gets a tech, Mobley gets a couple and an early shower. Just great. A great performence by the Magic tonight.


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## heyitsme (Feb 20, 2004)

So much for this being the "easy" part of our schedule, huh? 6 straight road losses.


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## Yao Mania (Aug 4, 2003)

This game reminds me of why I don't miss Steve Francis at all... the guy has no consistency, he can take the flow right out of the game. Jameer should've stayed in the game IMO, he was doing a great job. And Grant Hill should've got waaay more touches... heck, he should be the team's #1 option, why isn't he getting more touches?? Seems like he's gotta create every opportunity himself. 

With Francis on the floor it's like 5 1-on-1 games being played sometimes... ugly :dead:


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## DwyaneWade4MVP (Apr 1, 2004)

As well Orlando started the season as bad they play on the road now....:no:


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>JNice</b>!
> 
> 
> It shouldn't be close, but the way Orlando is playing lately, it might be. Or even worse, it might not be close, but in Toronto's favor.


Shouldn't be close?
Right...


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## rapsfan4life (Apr 10, 2004)

good game boys  


You guys are strugling and kept up tonight, admit it now you know you thought this was an easy win. How bout Francis :sour: good lord, this guy cannot control his emotions, i thought Rose acts like he is on crack.:laugh:


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## Dathomieyouhate (Jun 21, 2003)

bosh with 25 points 12 rebounds 3 assists 1 steal... man this guys gonna be insane in a couple of years.


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## heyitsme (Feb 20, 2004)

Bosh is good, but Howard will be better. Bosh is still entirely too weak to play in the post on a consistent basis, if he gains some weight, we'll see. With that said, I like Bosh's game.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

Note to Toronto fans: if you're going to come to somebody else's house, mind your manners. They can throw you out the door DJ Jazzy Jeff-style if they want to.


Anyways, I'm curious as to why D-Ho only had 24 minutes of burn tonight. He missed a couple of defensive assignments, but I didn't think the Magic did a good job of finding him on offense when he could've been the difference.

And do you think Cato is hurt or will he run through his tweaked ankle?


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Turkish Delight</b>!
> 
> 
> Shouldn't be close?
> Right...


You know it shouldn't have been. Orlando is slumping right now. Any other time, like the last game, Orlando is obviously a far better team.


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## heyitsme (Feb 20, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>speedythief</b>!
> Note to Toronto fans: if you're going to come to somebody else's house, mind your manners. They can throw you out the door DJ Jazzy Jeff-style if they want to.
> 
> 
> ...


Howard NEVER gets any touches on offense and it's annoying and probably messing up his progression. As to why he only got 24 minutes, ask that idiot for a head coach we have.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>speedythief</b>!
> Note to Toronto fans: if you're going to come to somebody else's house, mind your manners. They can throw you out the door DJ Jazzy Jeff-style if they want to.
> 
> 
> ...


Francis hasn't been finding Dwight all year. Nobody really has since very early on. At the same time, Dwight is slumping a bit and looks tired at times. I think the NBA schedule is starting to get to him a bit. He hasn't been nearly as aggressive lately, especially rebounding. Same goes for Hill. I think the early adrenaline is wearing off and the 4 years off is starting to catch up with him.

This team needs a serious wake-up call right now.

Trade Mobley and Garrity. That is what I say.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>JNice</b>!
> Francis hasn't been finding Dwight all year. Nobody really has since very early on. At the same time, Dwight is slumping a bit and looks tired at times. I think the NBA schedule is starting to get to him a bit. He hasn't been nearly as aggressive lately, especially rebounding. Same goes for Hill. I think the early adrenaline is wearing off and the 4 years off is starting to catch up with him.
> 
> This team needs a serious wake-up call right now.
> ...


Mobley? Really? I think he's been playing really well this year. His shooting has been hot, he's keeping his turnovers down. He's missed a bit of action but for the most part he seems to be a better player now than he was with the Rockets for the last year or two.

I don't want to agitate by saying this, but Francis has a lot of value and you could probably find some good young talent for him. Maybe somebody like Chicago or Golden State might want him. Possibly even New Jersey if you were willing to part with a big man like Battie or Cato as well. The way he dominates the ball, I don't ever see him gelling with Howard. And I love Jameer Nelson. Just IMO... I'm probably too biased to be commenting on Francis considering my hatred of him is reaching John-level proportions. :dead:


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>speedythief</b>!
> 
> 
> Mobley? Really? I think he's been playing really well this year. His shooting has been hot, he's keeping his turnovers down. He's missed a bit of action but for the most part he seems to be a better player now than he was with the Rockets for the last year or two.
> ...



Mobley has been alright scoring wise. My problem with him is he does little else. His defense hasn't been very good and at his size, other teams SGs have an easy time shooting over him. And he doesn't rebound at all.

I'd say there is little to no chance Francis is traded this year or anytime soon. Maybe down the road as Howard develops, but not now.

If I was Johnny, here is what I'd do. Switch up the starting lineup. Start -

PG Hill
SG Francis
SF Turkoglu
PF Battie
C Cato

Have Francis guard PGs on defense and Hill guards SGs. Hill is the best passer on the team and the most unselfish passer on the team. Francis can focus on scoring. I've always contended Francis should be a SG.

And Turkoglu is a better defender than Mobley. Better passer and better rebounder, and he shoots the ball just as well. He also adds more size.

Give Dwight a wake-up call by sitting him to start. Still bring him in early, maybe 5 or so mins into the 1st qtr and still get him his around 30 minutes. Coming off the bench could potentially give him more time against other teams backup and also more time on the court with Jameer, who plays at a faster pace which suits Dwight better.

I'd try to trade Mobley and Garrity for a defensive minded SF to come off the bench and maybe a big man with two legs and a pulse. Give DeShawn some run at backup SG. 

Oh, and call Bernie Bickerstaff in Charlotte and say "just kidding, give us Bogans back."

Johnny has to do whatever it takes and put whoever in to start who won't give up 30+ points in the first quarter. We've been losing most of these games in the first quarter.


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>heyitsme</b>!
> 
> 
> The Magic are banged up and in a slump. They are a MUCH better team than Toronto


That's no excuse, the Raptors are ALWAYS in a slump... :laugh: 

Anyway good game guys...


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## jskudera (Dec 2, 2004)

I saw the last 6 minutes of the game, and that was the worst basketball i've ever seen, combined with the worst officiating. Both Mobley and Francis were fouled, and nothing was called. I knew Mobley would run his mouth and get thrown out of the game, and I'm surprised Francis didn't. Grant Hill needs to run the point, more of a veteran type guy who knows how to play ball the right way. I love Stevie, but he is way too out of control. One play that Bosh got And 1 on against Battie, can we say late whistle? Officiating was complete garbage for the 6 minutes I watched the game. Orlando is really disappointing me right now.


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## Idunkonyou (Feb 23, 2003)

The Magic better get their act together soon. We have lost to 3 pathetic teams in the Raptors, Bucks and Bulls, plus a .500 team in the Knicks. 

This team is better than that, but one thing is key. The Magic aren't playing D like they did earlier in the year. Until they start playing D again and actually start using Howard in the post, they will continue to lose. 

And what the ---- is Howard doing only getting 24 minutes last night and Garrity being used as a center in the last 4 games? These are the reasons Davis should be fired. If JW has done one thing wrong, it is letting Davis stay around. He is a spawn of Doc Rivers who was basically nothing more than a cheer leader in a $3,000 suit. Davis isn't even a cheer leader and has a love affair for Garrity that only retards would have. 

Two things JW needs to do. Fire Davis and trade Garrity.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>speedythief</b>!
> 
> 
> Mobley? Really? I think he's been playing really well this year. His shooting has been hot, he's keeping his turnovers down. He's missed a bit of action but for the most part he seems to be a better player now than he was with the Rockets for the last year or two.


His turnovers have been down because he shoots the ball every damn time he has it. Everyone talks about how frustrating it is to watch Francis play, but honestly it's 100 times worse for me to watch Mobley play, and take stupid shot after stupid shot and pass up open 20 footers with 2 seconds on the shot clock. Damn, he must have the worst shot selection of any player in the NBA. 





> I don't want to agitate by saying this, but Francis has a lot of value and you could probably find some good young talent for him. Maybe somebody like Chicago or Golden State might want him. Possibly even New Jersey if you were willing to part with a big man like Battie or Cato as well. The way he dominates the ball, I don't ever see him gelling with Howard. And I love Jameer Nelson. Just IMO... I'm probably too biased to be commenting on Francis considering my hatred of him is reaching John-level proportions. :dead:


I thought I was going to be really frustrated with Steve this year given his reputation from Rocket fans, but honestly that's not the case with me. Francis is a passionate player, and I like that about him as long as he keeps it in control and it doesn't take him out of the game (not always a given). Sure he makes a lot of stupid decisions, but he's not nearly as bad at that as peiple make him out to be. He's definitely a guy I like having on the team. I think we should look to trade Mobley, like I thought earlier in the year. I'd look into a deal with Denver like was previously discussed. I wouldn't mind giving up Garrity either.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> I wouldn't mind giving up Garrity either.


I've officially fallen off the very small with flat tires Garrity bandwagon. He hasn't fit in and the one thing he is supposed to do, hit outside shots, he isn't doing. You are the weakest link! Goodbye!


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