# So who would you trade Pierce for?



## KJay (Sep 22, 2002)

same as my Walker one, who would you trade him (Pierce) to?


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## celtsb34 (Apr 22, 2005)

How about We Keep him?


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## Delontes Herpes (May 11, 2005)

Kevin Garnett works.


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## DWest Superstar (Jun 30, 2005)

Corey Maggette, and a 2nd rounder


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## KJay (Sep 22, 2002)

Delontes Herpes said:


> Kevin Garnett works.


 hell will freeze before minny does that.


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## Delontes Herpes (May 11, 2005)

Gerald Green said:


> Corey Maggette, and a 2nd rounder


Funny.


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## Delontes Herpes (May 11, 2005)

Btw, I'm being partially serious about for KG. There are only about 15-20 players in the league that are worth trading Pierce for. And the vast majority absolutely would never happen (Duncan, Wade, Shaq, Lebron, Amare, etc).

However, KG was allegedly on the block at one point and if the Timberwolves are willing to let him go, a package of Pierce, Walker, Banks, and a couple first rounders MIGHT be enough. I highly doubt this would happen, but it is probably the most realistic trade scenario for Pierce that actually helps the team instead of hurting them.


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## KJay (Sep 22, 2002)

Delontes Herpes said:


> Btw, I'm being partially serious about for KG. There are only about 15-20 players in the league that are worth trading Pierce for. And the vast majority absolutely would never happen (Duncan, Wade, Shaq, Lebron, Amare, etc).
> 
> However, KG was allegedly on the block at one point and if the Timberwolves are willing to let him go, a package of Pierce, Walker, Banks, and a couple first rounders MIGHT be enough. I highly doubt this would happen, but it is probably the most realistic trade scenario for Pierce that actually helps the team instead of hurting them.


 it's enough but is it good enough.


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## vandyke (Jan 8, 2004)

There is only one trade proposal I have see on these boards that I think is a serious trade proposal for Pierce, most of what you read on these boards is absolutely absurd for a player of Pierce's talent, but I did see one on the Clippers board where if the Clippers had any sense and drafted Gerald Green when they had the 12th pick, they could have packaged Green, Magette, and Wilcox for Pierce and the 18th pick where we would have picked Koralev for them. That is the only possible fair trade for Pierce that I have seen on these boards, everything else is pretty ridiculous.


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## SamIam (Jun 1, 2004)

If Minnesota traded Garnett they would not want Pierce back. A more realistic scenario would be Davis/Blount/Jefferson/LA pick/Cleveland Pick.

Raef/Garnett/Reed/Pierce/West would be 1 hell of a starting 5.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

Not really. There are better starting fives in the league. West, Reed, and Raef aren't starters are contending teams.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

Also, I seriously doubt that McHale trades with Ainge.


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## Delontes Herpes (May 11, 2005)

vandyke said:


> There is only one trade proposal I have see on these boards that I think is a serious trade proposal for Pierce, most of what you read on these boards is absolutely absurd for a player of Pierce's talent, but I did see one on the Clippers board where if the Clippers had any sense and drafted Gerald Green when they had the 12th pick, they could have packaged Green, Magette, and Wilcox for Pierce and the 18th pick where we would have picked Koralev for them. That is the only possible fair trade for Pierce that I have seen on these boards, everything else is pretty ridiculous.


Yeah, that trade woulda sucked.

Danny already turned down something along those lines.


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## Delontes Herpes (May 11, 2005)

SamIam said:


> If Minnesota traded Garnett they would not want Pierce back. A more realistic scenario would be Davis/Blount/Jefferson/LA pick/Cleveland Pick.
> 
> Raef/Garnett/Reed/Pierce/West would be 1 hell of a starting 5.


I disagree.

If the T'Wolves would ever even consider trading Garnett to the Celtics, Pierce going to Minny would be a given. Maybe they think Jefferson will be a 20/10 guy, but he is still unproven and that would kill their ticket sales. If you are trading a player the caliber of KG, in return you need a proven superstar. Pierce is the only Celtic who fits that description (slightly use loose of superstar, I know. But you get the point.)


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## Flava_D (Apr 22, 2005)

as much as I hate to admit it, Justin Reed will be a quality starter in the NBA....


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

Let's not jump to conclusions. His defense is good, yes, but he hasn't showed that he is an offensive threat in a real NBA game (sorry agoo).


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## AUNDRE (Jul 11, 2005)

Jamal Magloire and a 1st Round Pick................

there was talk about trading for Magloire.. but i would only do it if they threw in a 1st Round Pick.............


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## SamIam (Jun 1, 2004)

Delontes Herpes said:


> I disagree.
> 
> If the T'Wolves would ever even consider trading Garnett to the Celtics, Pierce going to Minny would be a given. Maybe they think Jefferson will be a 20/10 guy, but he is still unproven and that would kill their ticket sales. If you are trading a player the caliber of KG, in return you need a proven superstar. Pierce is the only Celtic who fits that description (slightly use loose of superstar, I know. But you get the point.)


Why would Minnesota trade Garnett and then bring back Pierce? It makes no sense. If they trade Garnett it is to rebuild and that means no to Pierce. They would want young players and draft picks and no max salary contracts. 

Of course the whole premise is based on the assumption that Minny wanted to move Garnett.

As far as Garnett/Pierce/Raef/Reed/West not being a quality starting 5.... are you kidding? You have seen better in Boston in the last 10 years? I suppose Raef and Reed are not "great" starters..... but Nazr and Bowen are?


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## AUNDRE (Jul 11, 2005)

SamIam said:


> Why would Minnesota trade Garnett and then bring back Pierce? It makes no sense. If they trade Garnett it is to rebuild and that means no to Pierce. They would want young players and draft picks and no max salary contracts.
> 
> Of course the whole premise is based on the assumption that Minny wanted to move Garnett.
> 
> As far as Garnett/Pierce/Raef/Reed/West not being a quality starting 5.... are you kidding? You have seen better in Boston in the last 10 years? I suppose Raef and Reed are not "great" starters..... but Nazr and Bowen are?


^^TRUTH

and they'll have Gomes and Green coming off the bench to put up some numbers maybe even Antoine Walker....

that would be a SICK Line-Up....


all this Minnesota talk is just a suggestion or did they really discuss trades with Minnesota?????


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## KJay (Sep 22, 2002)

mostly just suggestions.


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

SamIam said:


> Why would Minnesota trade Garnett and then bring back Pierce? It makes no sense. If they trade Garnett it is to rebuild and that means no to Pierce. They would want young players and draft picks and no max salary contracts.



you couldnt just trade young players and no max contracts for kg...if we just traded young players wed have to give them 8 ppl to equal KGs salary of like 20 mill or whatever it is...IF a trade like this were to happen pierce would have to be in it


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

And hopefully Blount/Raef would be too.


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## Delontes Herpes (May 11, 2005)

SamIam said:


> As far as Garnett/Pierce/Raef/Reed/West not being a quality starting 5.... are you kidding? You have seen better in Boston in the last 10 years? I suppose Raef and Reed are not "great" starters..... but Nazr and Bowen are?


I didn't address that point. Any lineup with Pierce and KG would be GREAT. Although we would still need a PG.


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## Delontes Herpes (May 11, 2005)

siK_sTyLeZz said:


> Jamal Magloire and a 1st Round Pick................
> 
> there was talk about trading for Magloire.. but i would only do it if they threw in a 1st Round Pick.............


Yeah, that trade would suck.

I'm sure the Celtics could get Magloire with a combination of unproven young players and draft picks. No need to trade their top 20 player to pick him up.


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## Delontes Herpes (May 11, 2005)

Every single Pierce trade rumor I've heard sucks. The common theme is trading him for someone half as good plus some crappy throw ins that do little to balance the value.

When you trade a superstar for a pretty good player plus throw ins, the throw ins are pretty much negligible. For example, Shaq for Odom, Grant, and Butler may as well be Shaq for Odom. T-Mac for Steve Francis, Cuttino Mobley, and Kelvin Cato may as well be T-Mac for Steve Francis. And Vince Carter for nothing, may as well be Vince Carter for nothing.

Pierce has been the lone bright spot for the franchise in the post-Bird era. It would be absolutely idiotic to trade him just for the sake of trading him. If they are looking to make a Blockbuster deal, they should be looking for a good player to put next to Pierce that they can pick up for 50 cents on the dollar, not vice versa.


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## whiterhino (Jun 15, 2003)

Peirce for Maggette & Kaman 
Peirce for Maggette & Livington
Peirce for Maggette & Wilcox & Jaric


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## Delontes Herpes (May 11, 2005)

I'll take #2, but there's no way the Clippers would do that.

But yeah, options 1 and 3 would suck.


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## DWest Superstar (Jun 30, 2005)

Premier said:


> Not really. There are better starting fives in the league. West, Reed, and Raef aren't starters are contending teams.


I'd say only Raef now that Reed is buckets


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

Once again, Delonte West, Justin Reed, and Raef LaFrentz aren't starters in contending teams.


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## DWest Superstar (Jun 30, 2005)

Premier said:


> Once again, Delonte West, Justin Reed, and Raef LaFrentz aren't starters in contending teams.


Were we contenders last year?


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

No. 

Not at all.


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## DWest Superstar (Jun 30, 2005)

Premier said:


> No.
> 
> Not at all.


I'd say yes. Because we were in 02-03 and we had a stronger core last year


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

We weren't contenders since the mid-80's. Do you think we were going to contend for a title against the Lakers if we had won the ECF? We would've gotten swept. The Eastern Conference was horrible that year.


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## sMaK (Jun 13, 2002)

Hopefully the Celts don't trade Pierce for a Maggette package. Maggette is one of the most overrated players in the league.


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## DWest Superstar (Jun 30, 2005)

sMaK said:


> Hopefully the Celts don't trade Pierce for a Maggette package. Maggette is one of the most overrated players in the league.


There is not a casual fan that knows who Maggette is


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## Delontes Herpes (May 11, 2005)

Premier said:


> Once again, Delonte West, Justin Reed, and Raef LaFrentz aren't starters in contending teams.


West and Reed aren't, but if you have Pierce and KG you can get by with guys like raef in the lineup.


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## KJay (Sep 22, 2002)

Gerald Green said:


> There is not a casual fan that knows who Maggette is


 there's a difference between being known and having talent.

it's like in the NFL. Michale Vick isn't the most statistically talented qb out there, but he's the most well known.

The step to Maggette from Pierce's level is big.


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## DWest Superstar (Jun 30, 2005)

KJay said:


> there's a difference between being known and having talent.
> 
> it's like in the NFL. Michale Vick isn't the most statistically talented qb out there, but he's the most well known.
> 
> The step to Maggette from Pierce's level is big.


I agree but i also think Pierce is a cancer


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## Delontes Herpes (May 11, 2005)

Who isn't a cancer?


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

Delontes Herpes said:


> Who isn't a cancer?




antoine :biggrin:


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## Delontes Herpes (May 11, 2005)

No, he's a cancer. He shoots too many threes and doesn't spend enough time inside. The only players who aren't cancers are the Celtics HoF bound young guys who are model citizens and excellent team players.


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

Delontes Herpes said:


> No, he's a cancer. He shoots too many threes and doesn't spend enough time inside. The only players who aren't cancers are the Celtics HoF bound young guys who are model citizens and excellent team players.




o cmon now...a "cancer" hurts team chemistry...say all the bad stuff u wanty about toine but the last thing he does is hurt team chemistry...hes always the one helpin guys up cheerin them on slappin them on the ***...and for all of you who forgot his early years the reason why he was a star was because of his versatility...because he could strp outside that opened up the inside for him...anyway...cancer is the last thing you can call antoine


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## whiterhino (Jun 15, 2003)

Antoine = NOT a cancer
Ricky = NOT a cancer
Paul = becoming a cancer if not there already, I hope he turns it around if we hang onto him for another season bc otherwise it's going to be a bad bumpy ride and his trade value will diminish further :dead:


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## KJay (Sep 22, 2002)

it's weird all the former KU players in the pro's from up three years ago have bad reps or just can't play, man I feel bad for my alma mater.


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## agoo (Jun 1, 2003)

Am I the only one who thinks the term "cancer" is the most overused phrase on this board? By all accounts Antoine is a good teammate. He encourages his teammates and helps with the rookies. You can say that he disrupts the flow of the game. You can say he's not an efficient player. But to say he's a "cancer" is ridiculous.

Lets try different terms...perhaps one that isn't a currently incurable disease that kills millions every year. We'll call Kellen Winslow Jr. stupid for saying that he's a "mother****in' soldier" when his country is at war, but then we'll say that he's a "cancer" that is hurting his team out on the "battlefield." Seriously, lets get over ourselves.

Paul Pierce, in my opinion, is becomming a negative influence. He seems to be dematuring as the years go on, which is not something that we can have in our star player. If he smartens up, he's a keeper because we aren't going to get a lot for him right now. However, if he continues with the ridiculous immature actions like taking a weak swing at Jamaal Tinsley (we **** on Walker for what he did, but what Pierce did was just as stupid, he just didn't get suspended for it for some illogical reason) and the idiotic face bandage, he needs to go.


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## DWest Superstar (Jun 30, 2005)

> Am I the only one who thinks the term "cancer" is the most overused phrase on this board?


Upside, potential


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## LionOfJudah (May 27, 2003)

How about KVH's big *** expiring contract for Pierce since he's such a "cancer". Then Boston could have the softest front court in the leauge. :laugh:


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## LX (Oct 14, 2004)

It's funny how everyone talks bad about Pierce. Yet, without Pierce the Celtics would be in the basement of the Atlantic Dvision every single year. 

Try this. Flip flop what happened with Walker, and say that happened to Pierce. The Celtics certainly werent a good team by any means in 2003-2004 but also weren't a really bad team either. Had it been Pierce that got traded the Celtics would have won 25 games, tops. See: Atlanta Hawks, because that's about all the talent that was on the Celtics in 2003-2004. Even last year before Antoine, Pierce was keeping the team around .500. Even as much as you hate to admit it. 

I'm not seeing how one incident in the playoffs automatically turns Pierce into a cancer. Some of these trade offers are just plain ludicrous. Pierce for Maggette? Are you out of your darn minds? You're traidng away a top-3 talent at the small forward position for Corey Maggette who can't even touch Pierce's level. Not to mention the trades that have been talked about with Portland before that. Hell the only trade that would even be worth doing would be the one to bring in Kevin Garnett.


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## LionOfJudah (May 27, 2003)

Lanteri said:


> It's funny how everyone talks bad about Pierce. Yet, without Pierce the Celtics would be in the basement of the Atlantic Dvision every single year.
> 
> Try this. Flip flop what happened with Walker, and say that happened to Pierce. The Celtics certainly werent a good team by any means in 2003-2004 but also weren't a really bad team either. Had it been Pierce that got traded the Celtics would have won 25 games, tops. See: Atlanta Hawks, because that's about all the talent that was on the Celtics in 2003-2004. Even last year before Antoine, Pierce was keeping the team around .500. Even as much as you hate to admit it.
> 
> I'm not seeing how one incident in the playoffs automatically turns Pierce into a cancer. Some of these trade offers are just plain ludicrous. Pierce for Maggette? Are you out of your darn minds? You're traidng away a top-3 talent at the small forward position for Corey Maggette who can't even touch Pierce's level. Not to mention the trades that have been talked about with Portland before that. Hell the only trade that would even be worth doing would be the one to bring in Kevin Garnett.


 Exactly. Pierce is one of my personal favs I still rank him in the top 5 sg in the game.


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## thekid (Apr 3, 2003)

Hypothetically, without salary cap restrictions, would you trade Pierce for Iguodala?


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## agoo (Jun 1, 2003)

thekid said:


> Hypothetically, without salary cap restrictions, would you trade Pierce for Iguodala?


No, but that's because I'm not really huge on Iguoudala. Though I would think about it.


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## LX (Oct 14, 2004)

thekid said:


> Hypothetically, without salary cap restrictions, would you trade Pierce for Iguodala?


LOL

Anyone who would pull the trigger on that deal needs to consider a lobotomy.


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

Lanteri said:


> The *Celtics* certainly weren't a good team by any means in 2003-2004 but also *weren't a really bad team either.* *Had it been Pierce that got traded the Celtics would have won 25 games, tops. See: Atlanta Hawks*, because that's about all the talent that was on the Celtics in 2003-2004. Even last year before Antoine, Pierce was keeping the team around .500. Even as much as you hate to admit it.


The C's worst season in the last 8 years was much better than any season Atlanta had. Name 2 guys from the Hawks, excluding the two young guns they have, that played with Antoine. Al Harrington is the only one I know of. I'm sure that the whole league can name at least 4/5 common names that played in a C's uniform the past 2 years. There is no way in hell that the 03/04 Celtics were as bad as the Hawks are. They were frustrating to watch, but they didn't have bad players on the roster.



> I'm not seeing how one incident in the playoffs automatically turns Pierce into a cancer. Some of these trade offers are just plain ludicrous. Pierce for Maggette? Are you out of your darn minds? You're trading away a top-3 talent at the small forward position for Corey Maggette who can't even touch Pierce's level. Not to mention the trades that have been talked about with Portland before that. Hell the only trade that would even be worth doing would be the one to bring in Kevin Garnett.


Maggette for Pierce? Never in a million years, it was Maggette + young talent + pick for Pierce. And you can wait millions of years before you get Garnett for Pierce...and you still won't get it unless you trade away all of the Celtics future.


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## LX (Oct 14, 2004)

Read aqua read. 

I said WITHOUT PIERCE, the Celtics would be no better than the Atlana Hawks. Take Pierce away from last year's team and all you have is a bunch of rookies and Ricky Davis. Pretty much the same situation down there in Atlanta.


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

Lanteri said:


> Read aqua read.
> 
> I said WITHOUT PIERCE, the Celtics would be no better than the Atlana Hawks. Take Pierce away from last year's team and all you have is a bunch of rookies and Ricky Davis. Pretty much the same situation down there in Atlanta.


You said FLIP FLOP Toine and Paul. And even without Pierce AND Toine, last years Celtice were much better than the Hawks.


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## Delontes Herpes (May 11, 2005)

thekid said:


> Hypothetically, without salary cap restrictions, would you trade Pierce for Iguodala?


No. But in 2 years, I wouldn't be surprised to say that I would trade the 05-06 Pierce for the 07-08 Iguodala.


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## DWest Superstar (Jun 30, 2005)

thekid said:


> Hypothetically, without salary cap restrictions, would you trade Pierce for Iguodala?


Yes. in a heartbeat


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

I would trade him for Deng, Chandler, and a future-first. Does that count?


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## DWest Superstar (Jun 30, 2005)

Premier said:


> I would trade him for Deng, Chandler, and a future-first. Does that count?


Well read the topic. So yes it does count. I would also do it for Tim Duncan and Manu Ginobili


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## Delontes Herpes (May 11, 2005)

Premier said:


> I would trade him for Deng, Chandler, and a future-first. Does that count?


I wouldn't


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## nextghitman (Jul 17, 2005)

celtsb34 said:


> How about We Keep him?


Yea, why the hell would you even want to mention about moving Pierce. He is one of the best players in the league and he deserves some respect!


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## DWest Superstar (Jun 30, 2005)

nextghitman said:


> Yea, why the hell would you even want to mention about moving Pierce. He is one of the best players in the league and he deserves some respect!


He is a world class nutcase, is that enough respect?


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## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

Not to bring up Mr. Antoine Walker once again - but that fact that some people are trying to figure out how to move Pierce and sign Walker is actually what is nuts.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

If Walker is gone, I want Pierce to go and vise versa.

If Walker is resigned, I want Pierce to stay and vise versa.


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## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

I've heard that argument and while I do not fully agree I get why people say that. It looks very strong that Walker is gone. Pierce's status is obviously less clear - but I'd bet he stays in Boston.


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## KJay (Sep 22, 2002)

Premier said:


> I would trade him for Deng, Chandler, and a future-first. Does that count?


and why?


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## banner17 (Jun 28, 2003)

Premier said:


> If Walker is gone, I want Pierce to go and vise versa.
> 
> If Walker is resigned, I want Pierce to stay and vise versa.



agreed


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## DWest Superstar (Jun 30, 2005)

KJay said:


> and why?


And why not?


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## Bad Bartons (Aug 23, 2002)

The crap that Pierce pulled at the end of game 6 was inexcusable...

Can you imagine Larry Bird even having a bad nightmare in which something like that occurred?

Still, Paul Pierce's trade value is at an all time low. I doubt that the Celtics will get anything of value for him at this stage.

Pierce had one of his best seasons yet last year. He is buying into the Ainge / Rivers system and he is still an excellent ball player.

Pierce is an asset. The time to trade an asset is not at its lowest value. Let Paul come back to the team and show what he has done during the off season to improve his game.

However, if he can not become the vet leader that this team of young talented players need then the Celtics need to get players in who can mentor Jefferson, Green, Perkins, Allen, West and Banks. The young players need positive role models. They need the kind of professionals who can teach them to win on and off the court.


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

Causeway said:


> Not to bring up Mr. Antoine Walker once again - but that fact that some people are trying to figure out how to move Pierce and sign Walker is actually what is nuts.




id have to agree causeway...if pierce goes so does A-dubbaya...if A dubbaya goes...well...i wouldnt mind seein pierce go...if we r gonna start over lets just do it all at the same time


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## Biggestfanoftheknicks (Apr 14, 2005)

I love how undervalued he is!!!! So he lost his cool what top 5 player hasn't lost their cool in the playoffs? Really besides duncan that list isn't very long, but hey I'm hoping we can snag the guy I really am because he's as close as you can get to being the top guard in the league.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

It's not about the playoffs.

It's about if we want to rebuild or not.


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## Delontes Herpes (May 11, 2005)

Bad Bartons said:


> The crap that Pierce pulled at the end of game 6 was inexcusable...


Uhh, no.

The refs calling that a technical was inexcusable. Same with his T early. He got screwed.


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## Delontes Herpes (May 11, 2005)

If they resign Toine, I want them to keep Pierce and if they don't resign Toine, I don't want them to not keep Pierce.


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

Delontes Herpes said:


> If they resign Toine, I want them to keep Pierce and if they don't resign Toine,* I don't want them to not keep Pierce*.


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

Delontes Herpes said:


> Uhh, no.
> 
> The refs calling that a technical was inexcusable. Same with his T early. He got screwed.


How come Antoine doesn't get that excuse? Did he really deserve 2 T's that game (5)?


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

Double negative.

Essentially, he's saying that he wants to keep Pierce regardless of what happens to Walker.

I tried to pen a response, but I guess I'm not witty enough.


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## LX (Oct 14, 2004)

aquaitious said:


> How come Antoine doesn't get that excuse? Did he really deserve 2 T's that game (5)?


Antoine pushed a ref, didn't he? Refs don't like to be touched.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

Jermaine O'Neal slapped away ref. He wasn't even called for a technical.


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

Lanteri said:


> Antoine pushed a ref, didn't he? Refs don't like to be touched.



and pierce got kicked out of game 6 yet some ppl defend what pierce did and act like what antoine did was the worst thing in the world...im not defending toine...but if u think one is bad then u have to think both are...the "it was a bad call" thing in the pierce play as many ppl have said doesnt do it for me..


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## DWest Superstar (Jun 30, 2005)

#1AntoineWalkerFan said:


>


I think he meant that Pierce is only good with Toine. He can only produce well with Toine. If we don't keep Toine then Pierce is useless.

Not my opinion, I think we should dump Pierce either way


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## Delontes Herpes (May 11, 2005)

Premier knows what I'm talking about. We need PP in order to not be in the Rudy Gay lottery.

You absolutely cannot touch a ref. Toine did, he got ejected.

Pierce got fouled hard and although it was stupid to brush back, Tinsley flopped like he was Vlade and the refs called an absurd T.


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## Bad Bartons (Aug 23, 2002)

Delontes Herpes said:


> Uhh, no.
> 
> The refs calling that a technical was inexcusable. Same with his T early. He got screwed.



Pierce gave the refs no choice. He over reacted to a hard foul. The refs had to T him up.

He should have complained to the ref with the aid of Doc Rivers then nailed the foul shots and won the game. If he was really pissed about the call or the foul he should have taken it out on Indy by whippin their tail in game 7.


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## KJay (Sep 22, 2002)

Gerald Green said:


> And why not?


 Deng is very young, and very unproven, but very good. Chandler has back problems, but a very hard worker. A first round pick is a crapshoot, you could end up with Larry bird or Fredrick Weiss.


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## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

#1AntoineWalkerFan said:


> id have to agree causeway...if pierce goes so does A-dubbaya...if A dubbaya goes...well...i wouldnt mind seein pierce go...if we r gonna start over lets just do it all at the same time


Actually I hope Pierce sticks around. I know he could use an attitude tweak - but I don't think it's as big a problem as people are making it out to be. I hope it can be worked out and PP stays.


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## whiterhino (Jun 15, 2003)

He's simply not what I want the face of this franchise to be.


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## DWest Superstar (Jun 30, 2005)

Delonte is the future :rock:


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## KJay (Sep 22, 2002)

dear god guys, you make Pierce out to be the worst teammate, rolemodel and person.


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

Delontes Herpes said:


> Premier knows what I'm talking about. We need PP in order to not be in the Rudy Gay lottery.
> 
> You absolutely cannot touch a ref. Toine did, he got ejected.


You can touch a ref. Look at O'Neal. He did it.




> Pierce got fouled hard and although it was stupid to brush back, Tinsley flopped like he was Vlade and the refs called an absurd T.



O'Neal leveled Delonte, Toine came to his help got thrown out and when he tried to argue, he touched a ref...

I can't believe that people are still making excuses for Paul's behavior and make out Toine to be the devil.


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

aquaitious said:


> I can't believe that people are still making excuses for Paul's behavior and make out Toine to be the devil.



Amen


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

KJay said:


> dear god guys, you make Pierce out to be the worst teammate, rolemodel and person.


This is true. Sure, Paul isn't a leader, but he's no J.R. Rider.


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## DWest Superstar (Jun 30, 2005)

Premier said:


> This is true. Sure, Paul isn't a leader, but he's no J.R. Rider.


Yeh if only Paul could dunk like J.R. Then I would look up to him


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## Delontes Herpes (May 11, 2005)

Bad Bartons said:


> Pierce gave the refs no choice. He over reacted to a hard foul. The refs had to T him up.
> 
> He should have complained to the ref with the aid of Doc Rivers then nailed the foul shots and won the game. If he was really pissed about the call or the foul he should have taken it out on Indy by whippin their tail in game 7.


Uhh, no.

The refs didn't have to T him up. You don't call a technical after a flop in such a significant situation.

And I didn't realize that players are able to singlehandedly blow a team out in game 7 simply by being pissed off. I learn something new everyday.


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## Delontes Herpes (May 11, 2005)

whiterhino said:


> He's simply not what I want the face of this franchise to be.


Fabulous logic. He doesn't have the exact personality that you like so he should be traded.

Who do you want to be the face of the franchise? Lebron James? Tim Duncan? Kevin Garnett? Dwyane Wade? Unfortunately those guys are all taken.

Maggette? You'll probably want to dump him, too, after a couple of months because he's too stoned to be the face of the franchise. Peja? You won't want him to be the face of the franchise when he chokes in the playoffs. Jamaal Magloire? Well, if he's the face of the franchise, the franchise SUCKS.

You may enjoy rooting for a team that sucks if they have nice guys on the team, but I happen to enjoy winning. Just my personal preference.


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## Delontes Herpes (May 11, 2005)

aquaitious said:


> O'Neal leveled Delonte, Toine came to his help got thrown out and when he tried to argue, he touched a ref...
> 
> I can't believe that people are still making excuses for Paul's behavior and make out Toine to be the devil.


I'm not going to lie I didn't see it, for whatever reason it wasn't on cable TV in North Carolina. All I heard is that he pushed a ref and that should be enough. But I won't further comment on the subject based on hearsay.

And everyone knows Toine's not the devil. It's just that some technicals are more deserved than others.


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## agoo (Jun 1, 2003)

Delontes Herpes said:


> Uhh, no.
> 
> *The refs didn't have to T him up. You don't call a technical after a flop in such a significant situation.*
> 
> And I didn't realize that players are able to singlehandedly blow a team out in game 7 simply by being pissed off. I learn something new everyday.


For the record, people talk about Walker like he slammed the ref to the ground WWE style. It really didn't look like a significant bump at all, but you have to T the guy up for bumping the ref.

You also have to T someone up who takes a swing (regardless of how weak it may have been) at a guy after a play.


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## Delontes Herpes (May 11, 2005)

That was not a swing. It was a brush. You do not have to T up a brush, especially in that situation.


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## K-DaWg (Jul 3, 2005)

*The Truth (potentially) being traded?*

It has been reported that Bob Ryan of the Boston Globe said that Paul Pierce is on the trading block. It seems that after him and Danny Ainge had a meeting he is now on his way out. If this is true were would you Celtics fans want him to go for Chamipionship? By the way im always on the mavs part of bbb.net


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## agoo (Jun 1, 2003)

*Re: The Truth Being traded*

Am I the only one not surprised to see Pierce on the block? I have a feeling he's been there for a while, regardless of Bob Ryan's report.


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

*Re: The Truth Being traded*

actually...from what ive heard...pierce and ainge did not have their scheduled meeting...


http://celtics.bostonherald.com/celtics/view.bg?articleid=93909


i just have a gut feeling that ainge is going to give this team one more season to see what they can do...and by that i mean keeping pierce and toine and (unfortuately) lafrentz and blount...simply because we cant move their contracts


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## Shady* (Jul 3, 2005)

*Re: The Truth Being traded*

I do not understand the question....
DONT LEAVE PAUL!!!!!!


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

*Re: The Truth Being traded*

Well, we have known that Paul is on the trading block, but it doesn't mean he is being traded as Danny isn't going to be trading for the sake of trading.

I just posted variants of the word "trade" four times.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

I agree. Refs need to tone it down a bit, especially in crucial parts of the playoffs.


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## KJay (Sep 22, 2002)

my god, maybe I'm too much of a Pierce homer because he's a KU alumn. BUt he's FAR from the worst teammate there is out there. Uh Rasheed Wallace. He's far from the worst person out there. Damn, he's not Latrell. So he's not a leader, ok no big deal. Just lighten up on him a bit. Is he the best out there? no, but give him a break.


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## LX (Oct 14, 2004)

Seriously. Some people that have posted in this therad need a serious reality check. Pierce is still one of the top players in the game yet everyone is willing to trade him for nothing. Give me a break.


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## Delontes Herpes (May 11, 2005)

KJay said:


> my god, maybe I'm too much of a Pierce homer because he's a KU alumn. BUt he's FAR from the worst teammate there is out there. Uh Rasheed Wallace. He's far from the worst person out there. Damn, he's not Latrell. So he's not a leader, ok no big deal. Just lighten up on him a bit. Is he the best out there? no, but give him a break.


You're not too much of a Pierce homer, you're just being rational.

There are very few NBA stars out there who are model citizens.


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## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

aquaitious said:


> I can't believe that people are still making excuses for Paul's behavior and make out Toine to be the devil.


Actually I have it from a very solid source - Chad Ford - that Antoine actually IS the devil. That's why his head is so big - to cover up his horns.


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## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

*Re: The Truth Being traded*

This is not big news. And there and many PP threads now. The way I see it is that according to Ainge no one on the Celtics is "untouchable" if the right deal comes along. Doc and Danny also have made pretty big hints that they are not happy with some of Pauls behavior and leadership. Having said that I think they both also feel he is a MAJOR talent and I strongly feel they will work it out and he'll stay on Boston. I also feel that (speculation) Doc and Danny feel PP's positives outweigh his negatives and it would take a hell of an offer to trade Pierce away.

If I were a betting man - ok I am - I'd bet Pierce is staying put. And I am happy about that.


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## Richie Rich (May 23, 2003)

*Re: The Truth Being traded*

#1 dont title threads "The Truth Being traded" because if you read that in a certain way it seems hes already been traded, too misleading, and PLEASE no more threads about it...there are like 8 already, i cant even come on this board anymore because its flooded with the same thread over and over, clean it up guys jeez


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## LX (Oct 14, 2004)

*Re: The Truth Being traded*



Richie Rich said:


> #1 dont title threads "The Truth Being traded" because if you read that in a certain way it seems hes already been traded, too misleading, and PLEASE no more threads about it...there are like 8 already, i cant even come on this board anymore because its flooded with the same thread over and over, clean it up guys jeez


Done.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

*Re: The Truth Being traded*

_If_ Pierce were to be traded, what kind of player would you want in return? A fellow all-star? A good big man? A young kid with potential? Draft picks?


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## KJay (Sep 22, 2002)

*Re: The Truth Being traded*

I made the thread because I kept seeing all these threads about trading PP so I figured one thread, and the Celt fans ideas for trades.


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## Delontes Herpes (May 11, 2005)

*Re: The Truth Being traded*



Causeway said:


> This is not big news. And there and many PP threads now. The way I see it is that according to Ainge no one on the Celtics is "untouchable" if the right deal comes along. Doc and Danny also have made pretty big hints that they are not happy with some of Pauls behavior and leadership. Having said that I think they both also feel he is a MAJOR talent and I strongly feel they will work it out and he'll stay on Boston. I also feel that (speculation) Doc and Danny feel PP's positives outweigh his negatives and it would take a hell of an offer to trade Pierce away.
> 
> If I were a betting man - ok I am - I'd bet Pierce is staying put. And I am happy about that.


I echo this sentiment



> If Pierce were to be traded, what kind of player would you want in return? A fellow all-star?


Yup, and the list stops there. The only other situation would be where we get 2 players of very good value. For example, Jamaal Magloire AND Chris Paul would be acceptable, even though it would never happen.


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## Bad Bartons (Aug 23, 2002)

Delontes Herpes said:


> Uhh, no.
> 
> The refs didn't have to T him up. You don't call a technical after a flop in such a significant situation.
> 
> And I didn't realize that players are able to singlehandedly blow a team out in game 7 simply by being pissed off. I learn something new everyday.


There was a flop... and I was upset at the T. But Paul followed through way too much and the entire thing was way too visible (mid court).
A ref has to call a T... I am amazed that there are people disputing it.

Did Rivers make any statements disputing the T?

Did Ainge make any statements disputing the T?

As for your second statement:
Paul is the best player on the Celtics, he is the leader of the team, he made a mistake in game 6 that could have cost them the series. His team rallied and won game 6. Instead of making a spectacle of himself with his bandaged jaw in a press conference he should have taken it out on the court in game 7.

He did not.


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## KJay (Sep 22, 2002)

oh wow a mid 20 year old did something immature, LET'S GET RID OF HIM. then that sets a great presidence, just trade a player when they do something immature. Folks, not every player is going to be mature. The Celts by and large over their history has been really fortunate to have alot of mature players in their history.


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## Richie Rich (May 23, 2003)

KJay said:


> oh wow a mid 20 year old did something immature, LET'S GET RID OF HIM. then that sets a great presidence, just trade a player when they do something immature. Folks, not every player is going to be mature. The Celts by and large over their history has been really fortunate to have alot of mature players in their history.


lol seriously its liek hey lets trade Manny Ramirez because he is the most immature guy in baseball and likes to take random breaks in the Green Monster, which btw may have been the funniest thing ive ever seen, it just doesnt work like that...especially when you put up the numbers paul (and manny) do.


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## Richie Rich (May 23, 2003)

*Re: The Truth Being traded*



Lanteri said:


> Done.



thank u sire


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

Bad Bartons said:


> Paul is the best player on the Celtics, *he is the leader of the team*, he made a mistake in game 6 that could have cost them the series. His team rallied and won game 6. Instead of making a spectacle of himself with his bandaged jaw in a press conference he should have taken it out on the court in game 7.
> He did not.


umm...you got most iof this right...but ur the first person ive ever heard say that paul is the leader of this team...best player of course...leader hell no


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

No, let's trade Manny Ramirez because he's overpaid.

Damn you Duquette.


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## KJay (Sep 22, 2002)

Richie Rich said:


> lol seriously its liek hey lets trade Manny Ramirez because he is the most immature guy in baseball and likes to take random breaks in the Green Monster, which btw may have been the funniest thing ive ever seen, it just doesnt work like that...especially when you put up the numbers paul (and manny) do.


 he's a Celtic to play and win games not to be a role model, if you want a role model look to your family and friends.


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## whiterhino (Jun 15, 2003)

Delontes Herpes said:


> Fabulous logic. He doesn't have the exact personality that you like so he should be traded.
> 
> Who do you want to be the face of the franchise? Lebron James? Tim Duncan? Kevin Garnett? Dwyane Wade? Unfortunately those guys are all taken.
> 
> ...



I hate to break it to you but you won't be winning ANYTHING with Paul Pierce, you just don't get the fact that character DOES matter

I guess I disagree with so many of you because I'm 32 and I grew up watching athletes that WERE roll models, I've got nothing good to say about a lot of the prima donna's masquerading as such these days. Say what you will about Walker but at least he has heart and truly cares....Paul cares only about the bottom line of both his paycheck and his stats


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## KJay (Sep 22, 2002)

I would hope that he couldn't win all by himself.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

"We are not going to win a championship with Pierce"

We're not going to win a championship with Maggette, either. Pierce's current value doesn't represent his potential value so we shouldn't trade him now _if_ we're serious about being competitive.


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## KJay (Sep 22, 2002)

so then by that logic if we trade him we will automatically win more games?


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

whiterhino said:


> I hate to break it to you but you won't be winning ANYTHING with Paul Pierce, you just don't get the fact that character DOES matter




i hate to break it to u...but noone will be winning ANYTHING in this league if they dont have a guy named duncan, shaq..or in the very rare case a complete team ie the pistons...this is how its gonna go for at least the next 5 yrs....i guarantee it


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## whiterhino (Jun 15, 2003)

You guys are not making sense to me. Peirce is not going to be the #1 guy on a championship team. Maggette is not going to be the #1 guy on a championship team. BUT one has a good attitude and is a team player, one is not. Plus the deal was not Peirce for Maggette straight up so please stop acting as if it was...I'm not a fan of Paul but no I don't want to trade him for a bag of peanuts. 
I'm tired of trying to get you guys to understand. I've seen the Championship Celtics teams and I remember what it takes to be there. There is no use discussing this with you guys because you don't seem to understand what I'm trying to say. You want to keep believing Paul is the answer and that his trade value isn't plumetting farther each month. Beleive it that is fine. In the end when Banner 17 is raised, Paul Pierce will not have been a part of it. For this I am absolutely 100% positive and I guess you will all just have to wait and see :raised_ey To me the writing has been clearly on the wall for a long time now.


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## whiterhino (Jun 15, 2003)

#1AntoineWalkerFan said:


> i hate to break it to u...but noone will be winning ANYTHING in this league if they dont have a guy named duncan, shaq..or in the very rare case a complete team ie the pistons...this is how its gonna go for at least the next 5 yrs....i guarantee it


Shaq only has another 1 or 2 high impact seasons left in him and he didn't get to the finals this season so that is not a good argument anymore. I'm not too worried about him. Duncan is a force to be reckoned with but he also has a great supporting cast. It is about TEAM work, just like with the Pistons, do you not think that is what Danny is trying to assemble here. Duncan and the Spurs are also a GREAT TEAM, it's not all TD, although yes he's a great great great player. The Pistons have already proved Teamwork can win championships so the myth that only the teams with the superstars can has already been disproven.


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## agoo (Jun 1, 2003)

KJay said:


> he's a Celtic to play and win games not to be a role model, if you want a role model look to your family and friends.


Thank you Sir Charles.


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## KJay (Sep 22, 2002)

yup, the tub of goo is good for a quote or two.


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## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

whiterhino said:


> I hate to break it to you but you won't be winning ANYTHING with Paul Pierce, you just don't get the fact that character DOES matter
> 
> I guess I disagree with so many of you because I'm 32 and I grew up watching athletes that WERE roll models, I've got nothing good to say about a lot of the prima donna's masquerading as such these days. Say what you will about Walker but at least he has heart and truly cares....Paul cares only about the bottom line of both his paycheck and his stats


whiterhino I am older than you. 36 actually. I grew up duging the 80's glory days. The role model thing is important but role models from the past are over-stated. Larry Bird who is my all time favorite athlete for many reasons has a child from an affair that he has little contact with. The Chief smoked more dope than Jerry Garcia. Same with Walton. etc. Does that make them bad people? Bad role models? More importantly did it effect their ability to win basketball games?

As for Pierce - I think the biggest problem has been not his attitude but talent. And not his talent but the talent around him. The best player he's EVER played with is Antoine Walker. I won't get into how I feel about Walker but I'll say this - if the best player you've had along side you is Walker that is not going to be enough to get you over the top. 

I feel given the talent the Celtics have had while Pierce has been in Green his teams have probably done more with less talent than any team in the NBA. But where has this taken us? Not to where the Celtics goal always is - a banner. Pierce has seen many coaches and major roster changes. Mark Blount is the only player currently on the Celtics that was here when Ainge arrived. That's a lot of change in a short period. Yet the Pierce led team still got in the playoffs this past season.

Yes PP had a meltdown that could have cost us a game. Not good. However he is not the prima donna you make him out to be. And I don't think he's just about stats. He has never even flirted with the scoring title. 

I hope PP sticks around. You say Walker plays hard? PP has heart. Yes once in a while he does not move his *** on the fast break. But who takes it to the basket harder than PP? Who is more willing to get whacked to get to the line for a not so easy 2? 

We now have a coach and GM on the same page. We have some players who have been here for at least a _little _ while and should be here for the future. This is not the time to dump PP IMO. I trust in Ainge and feel this will be worked out.


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## AUNDRE (Jul 11, 2005)

Paul Pierce for Stephon Marbury.....

New York Trade Breakdown 
Outgoing 
Stephon Marbury
6-2 PG from Georgia Tech
21.7 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 8.2 apg in 40.0 minutes 

Incoming 
Paul Pierce
6-6 SF from Kansas
21.6 ppg, 6.6 rpg, 4.2 apg in 36.1 minutes 
Change in team outlook: -0.1 ppg, +3.6 rpg, and -4.0 apg. 



Boston Trade Breakdown 
Outgoing 
Paul Pierce
6-6 SF from Kansas
21.6 ppg, 6.6 rpg, 4.2 apg in 36.1 minutes 

Incoming 
Stephon Marbury
6-2 PG from Georgia Tech
21.7 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 8.2 apg in 40.0 minutes 
Change in team outlook: +0.1 ppg, -3.6 rpg, and +4.0 apg.


Successful Scenario 
Due to New York and Boston being over the cap, the 25% trade rule is invoked. New York and Boston had to be no more than 125% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.


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## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

> Paul Pierce for Stephon Marbury...


Sorry but...hell no!


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## KJay (Sep 22, 2002)

no, under no circumstances. I'd rather have Larry Bird play right now than Stephon.


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## Delontes Herpes (May 11, 2005)

whiterhino said:


> I hate to break it to you but you won't be winning ANYTHING with Paul Pierce, you just don't get the fact that character DOES matter


character does matter...but Pierce doesn't have awful character and his flaws are worth stomaching for a player of his caliber



> I guess I disagree with so many of you because I'm 32 and I grew up watching athletes that WERE roll models


You cannot hold Pierce up to the standard set by Larry Bird. That's just ridiculous.



> Paul cares only about the bottom line of both his paycheck and his stats


Did he tell you this personally? I didn't hear about this.



> Maggette is not going to be the #1 guy on a championship team. BUT one has a good attitude and is a team player


Please. If Maggette was such a great team player, the Clippers would have been able to crack .500 with him, Brand, and Simmons last year. He's a pretty good player who is frequently hurt and constantly stoned. Nothing more. And if he was so team oriented he may have been able to average as many assists/game as the selfish Pierce did.



> Plus the deal was not Peirce for Maggette straight up so please stop acting as if it was


Players like Chris Wilcox and Yarolsav Korolev are quite trivial when you're trading an all-star like Pierce. It basically was Pierce for Maggette and a bag of peanuts.



> I've seen the Championship Celtics teams and I remember what it takes to be there. There is no use discussing this with you guys because you don't seem to understand what I'm trying to say. You want to keep believing Paul is the answer and that his trade value isn't plumetting farther each month. Beleive it that is fine. In the end when Banner 17 is raised, Paul Pierce will not have been a part of it. For this I am absolutely 100% positive and I guess you will all just have to wait and see


Yeah, what it takes is a legitimate MVP candidate, or in this case, one of the top 3 players of all time, plus a good supporting cast. I doubt Paul will ever be the best player on a championship team, but that doesn't mean he can't be #2. I don't see how trading him for a lesser player helps.


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

whiterhino said:


> Shaq only has another 1 or 2 high impact seasons left in him and he didn't get to the finals this season so that is not a good argument anymore. I'm not too worried about him. Duncan is a force to be reckoned with but he also has a great supporting cast. It is about TEAM work, just like with the Pistons, do you not think that is what Danny is trying to assemble here. Duncan and the Spurs are also a GREAT TEAM, it's not all TD, although yes he's a great great great player. The Pistons have already proved Teamwork can win championships so the myth that only the teams with the superstars can has already been disproven.




the pistons are the only team in the last 20 years AT LEAST that didnt have the most dominating player/ers on their team...so i beg to differ when u say that they have disproven anything...please show me another championship team that hasnt had one or 2 superstar/HOFers on their team


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

'77 Sonics, too.


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## Delontes Herpes (May 11, 2005)

AWF is right...detroit had a very rare combination of 5 very, very good starters, a great coach, and luck. They probably won't be winning any more championships anyway.

Besides them, these guys have combined to account for every championship dating back to 1980: Duncan, Shaq, MJ, Hakeem, Magic, Bird, Isiah, Dr J. Those are some damn good players, they are all a notch or two above Pierce, as good as he is. The main reason why the Celtics wouldn't be able to win a championship with Pierce as their best player is because he's not a future HoF.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

...which is why we shouldn't trade him _right now_ because his current value is below his potential value.


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## Richie Rich (May 23, 2003)

KJay said:


> he's a Celtic to play and win games not to be a role model, if you want a role model look to your family and friends.



i wasnt disagreeing i was just pointing out that people believe pierce has to be this amazingly perfectly well-behaved being and manny came to mind as someone who is in a similar situation...i agree with what we are seying, pierce does not need be a model citizen, just show more maturity...btw does manny take alotta slack in the beantown media about his antics?.....just curious


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## LX (Oct 14, 2004)

Manny is an insanely good hitter. He can do whatever the hell he wants. Plus baseball and basketball are totally different beasts. You can be the biggest buttmunch in the league (see: Barry Bonds), and still be somewhat successful. On the basketball court it's different. Though Pierce is FAR from being the biggest asshat around. In fact the playoff incident was the only thing that comes to mind.


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## KJay (Sep 22, 2002)

Lanteri said:


> Manny is an insanely good hitter. He can do whatever the hell he wants. Plus baseball and basketball are totally different beasts. You can be the biggest buttmunch in the league (see: Barry Bonds), and still be somewhat successful. On the basketball court it's different. Though Pierce is FAR from being the biggest asshat around. In fact the playoff incident was the only thing that comes to mind.


 if we were going on his college days, I have more stories, I know about stuff he did at KU (i graduated from there) but you have to look at him now, just one incident, if he falls further and further off, by all means trade him, but what I have an issue with is that people want to throw him away after one problem.


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## parkerj0 (Jul 21, 2005)

How about Pierce and LaFrentz to Pacers for Gill, Pollard, J. Jones, Reggie's contract and a 1st round pick?


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## Delontes Herpes (May 11, 2005)

Throw in a Larry Bird autographed jersey and it's a deal!

Just kidding, that's probably the worst Pierce trade proposal I've heard in my life.


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