# Yahoo : Gasol Wants To Play For Contender



## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

> Grizzlies F Gasol would rather play for a contender
> December 15, 2006
> 
> MADRID (TICKER) -- There is more bad news for the Memphis Grizzlies. Spanish star Pau Gasol would rather play for a championship contender.
> ...


WE NEED TO TRY TO DO THIS !


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## TripleDouble (Jul 26, 2002)

This calls for a fourway trade!

This Trade Succeeded! Go back to adjust your trade or start over.
Chicago Bulls

Incoming Players
Photo: Pau Gasol	
Pau Gasol
Salary: $12,364,000 Years Remaining: 5

Outgoing Players: P.J. Brown, Mike Sweetney, Andres Nocioni
Philadelphia 76ers

Incoming Players
Photo: Joe Smith	
Joe Smith
Salary: $6,807,000 Years Remaining: 1
PTS: 5.6 REB: 3.7 AST: 0.3 PER: 12.81
Photo: P.J. Brown	
P.J. Brown
Salary: $8,560,000 Years Remaining: 1
PTS: 5.3 REB: 4.2 AST: 0.5 PER: 9.91
Photo: Andres Nocioni	
Andres Nocioni
Salary: $3,950,000 Years Remaining: 1
PTS: 16.2 REB: 6.1 AST: 1.3 PER: 18.09
Photo: Julius Hodge	
Julius Hodge
Salary: $1,234,800 Years Remaining: 1

Outgoing Players: Allen Iverson
Memphis Grizzlies

Incoming Players
Photo: Nene Hilario	
Nene Hilario
Salary: $8,000,000 Years Remaining: 6
PTS: 6.0 REB: 4.1 AST: 0.8 PER: 11.94
Photo: Mike Sweetney	
Mike Sweetney
Salary: $2,696,956 Years Remaining: 1
PTS: 3.0 REB: 2.5 AST: 1.2 PER: 12.39
Photo: Yakhouba Diawara	
Yakhouba Diawara
Salary: $412,718 Years Remaining: 2
PTS: 5.4 REB: 2.0 AST: 1.1 PER: 7.44
Photo: J.R. Smith	
J.R. Smith
Salary: $1,387,560 Years Remaining: 2
PTS: 17.0 REB: 2.6 AST: 1.6 PER: 16.67

Outgoing Players: Pau Gasol
Denver Nuggets

Incoming Players
Photo: Allen Iverson	
Allen Iverson
Salary: $17,184,375 Years Remaining: 3
PTS: 31.2 REB: 2.7 AST: 7.3 PER: 24.13

Outgoing Players: Nene Hilario, Joe Smith, Yakhouba Diawara, J.R. Smith, Julius Hodge


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## The Krakken (Jul 17, 2002)

The ROY said:


> WE NEED TO TRY TO DO THIS !


Only if we don't have to give up Gordon, Hinrich, Deng TT or the Pick. :yay: :yay: 

They can have Noc, PJ Brown, Duhon, 07 sencond rounder and 08 first rounder.


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

The Krakken said:


> Only if we don't have to give up Gordon, Hinrich, Deng TT or the Pick. :yay: :yay:
> 
> They can have Noc, PJ Brown, Duhon, 07 sencond rounder and 08 first rounder.



Well, they wouldn't need TT....

I don't see them needing Deng with Hakim Warrick & Rudy Gay on board...

a Deng/Gasol duo would be insane...

I'd give them the NY pick (which probably won't be as high as we initially thought) & they'd definintely want either Gordon or Hinrich + PJ & possibly Sweet's contracts...


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## Sith (Oct 20, 2003)

heres what i think:

gordon+Deng+pick for gasol+miller.. hopefully we can save the pick but doesnt look like. only thing is we would have 4 white boys on the starting line up and wallace lol.

kirk
miller
noc
gaso
wallace


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## The Krakken (Jul 17, 2002)

The ROY said:


> Well, they wouldn't need TT....
> 
> a Deng/Gasol duo would be insane...


Still not giving up TT.



> I'd give them the NY pick (which probably won't be as high as we initially thought)


Agreed. I'm warming up to the idea of parting with it for Gasol, now that I think about it.



> & they'd definintely want either Gordon or Hinrich


Duhon. They aren't getting Gordon or Hinrich, but if I HAD to give one up, it would be hinrich. His skills are more easily duplicated than Gordons.



> + PJ & possibly Sweet's contracts...


They can have em. In that case, they can't have Noc. It would thin out our bench WAY too much.


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

The Krakken said:


> Duhon. They aren't getting Gordon or Hinrich, but if I HAD to give one up, it would be hinrich. His skills are more easily duplicated than Gordons.


Seeing as how Stoudamire is old and so is Eddie Jones, Kyle Lowry is the future at their PG position. No way they don't come after Kirk or Ben. we'd have to part with one of em.

I'd rather trade Kirk also but I'm sure Pax and Skiles would not...


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## The Krakken (Jul 17, 2002)

Sith said:


> heres what i think:
> 
> gordon+Deng+pick for gasol+miller.. hopefully we can save the pick but doesnt look like. only thing is we would have 4 white boys on the starting line up and wallace lol.
> 
> ...


NO WAY IN HELL. I would be reluctant to trade Deng for Gasol straight up at this point, giving Deng is on the verge of becoming VERY special. But giving up GORDON AND THE PICK?? WITH DENG??:lol: :lol: :lol: And miller is a throw in. That's giving up WAY WAY too much. The 6th man of the year and budding soon to be all-star...for.....well.....a middle of the pack all-star (not to be confused with franchise player)?

No thanks. Nothing personal.

Paxson should be fired on the spot for even thinking along those lines.


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## fl_flash (Aug 19, 2002)

I wonder what it would take to land Gasol?

You'd have to start with Brown and this years' pick swap. I think that's a given. We'd need to add salary to get within 125% of what Gasol makes. I really wouldn't want to deal Gordon, Deng or Noce. 

I think I'm a-gonna rattle some cages here... What about starting out with Brown, Hinrich, and the pick swap for Gasol? We give Memphis their starting PG for the next 8 years in Hinrich. They'll stink and get a high pick of their own and it is very possible the Knicks will continue to stink and so the Grizz would get two high lottery picks in a very deep draft. Not a bad way to cut payroll, add two talented lottey picks and make a team attractive to potential buyers.

Gordon starts alongside Duhon. Thabo off the Bench. Gosol next to Wallace... Not too bad...


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## The Krakken (Jul 17, 2002)

Thabo would have to develop very quickly for that to work. The thought of a Gordon/Duhon starting backcourt sends shivers up my spine.


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

I'd definintely start Thabo with Gordon..even if he doesn't get more minutes than Du, I'd start him.

I'd also move Khyrapa in the deal

G Gordon / Duhon
G Sefolosha
F Deng / Nocioni
F Gasol / Thomas
C Wallace

G Hinrich / Lowry / Stoudamire
G Miller / Jones
F Gay
F Warrick
C ?

add two lotto picks to that Hinrich/Gay/Warrick/Miller core and they'd have a very bright future.


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## Sith (Oct 20, 2003)

youguys are way over valueing our own guys. granted, gordon and deng have been good this year, but u really think memphis would trade a gasol(whos still young) for only either deng or gordon? you are out of your minds!!
i would be happy if we can get gasol for gordon+pick or deng+pick. they probably dont need deng since they have surplus of SF's.


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## The 6ft Hurdle (Jan 25, 2003)

fl_flash said:


> I wonder what it would take to land Gasol?
> 
> You'd have to start with Brown and this years' pick swap. I think that's a given. We'd need to add salary to get within 125% of what Gasol makes. I really wouldn't want to deal Gordon, Deng or Noce.
> 
> ...












Welcome! Our secretary-general, DaBullz, with be with you shortly.


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## The Krakken (Jul 17, 2002)

Sith said:


> youguys are way over valueing our own guys. granted, gordon and deng have been good this year, but u really think memphis would trade a gasol(whos still young) for only either deng or gordon? you are out of your minds!!
> i would be happy if we can get gasol for gordon+pick or deng+pick. they probably dont need deng since they have surplus of SF's.


Good cause they are not getting him. Like I said, If they get the pick, they are not getting gordon, or deng. Much less BOTH (as you originally suggested), PLUS the pick. It isn't so much that I'm overrating Gordon and Deng. I'm just not as high on GASOL as some people are. In my opinion, he's not a franchise player. He's a very good, all-star type that fits the same role as Sheed does in Detroit....just without the headaches, and inconsistency. He's a bit better than Sheed, but nowhere near Garnett/Dirk territory (which along with Howard, Amare, and Duncan are the only BIGS I'd part with THAT much for). So no, I'm not fond of giving up our two leading scorers AND the pick for a moderate all-star. No thanks.


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## fl_flash (Aug 19, 2002)

The 6ft Hurdle said:


> Welcome! Our secretary-general, DaBullz, with be with you shortly.


Well.... It's not like I've gone and joined the dark side or anything. I think you got to give a little to get a little. I tend to think Jerry West would prefer Hinrich in a deal over Gordon. Also, for me personally, it's a push as to which of the two I'd prefer to keep. Each one brings something different to the table.

Also, I'd much rather do what I could to keep both Deng and Noce. Basically it boils down to Brown, the pick swap and either Hinrich or Gordon. At this juncture of the game - I'd rather keep Gordon. I think over time he's going to be the better overall player. Hinrich's value is high - if he can be used to get Gasol for something like the above package - you gotta do it.


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## The Krakken (Jul 17, 2002)

fl_flash said:


> Also, I'd much rather do what I could to keep
> both Deng and Noce.


I'm not sure I agree with this. If Pau is not enough of an upgrade over Deng (he isn't) or Noce (???) to warrant a significant REDUCTION in minutes for one of them, then he certainly isn't worth giving much up for at all.

If he is, then one of them needs to go, as they will be wasting away here on the bench. And then we'll lose them at the end of the season to FA (likely in the case of NOC) anyway. I'd hate to see Noc reduced to 15 minutes per. BUt what I'd REALLY hate is to give up Hinrich or Gordon, PLUS THE PICK, and get a guy that's only gonna give us 25-30 minutes a night. He'd better be WAY better than what he have at the four now, and as such, warrant much more PT. And if he is, then Noc needs to go. No way on Deng.


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

Here's what I was thinking if trade demands started:

Duhon
Nocioni
Brown
1st Pick (top 3 protected)

FOR

Gasol
Tsakalidis

If they are not a fan of Duhon (which I don't see why they wouldn't be), then replace Duhon with Sweetney to save money.

Chicago Lineup:
C Wallace/Tsakalidis
PF Gasol/Sweetney/Thomas
SF Deng/Khryapa
SG Gordon/Griffin
PG Hinrich/Sefolosha/Barrett

I really don't think trading Duhon would mean Thabo needs to mature more quickly. I think that means Griffin would see more regular minutes.

Memphis Future Lineup:
C 1st rouncd pick/Swift
PF Nocioni/Warrick
SF Gay/ Miller
SG Atkins/Jones
PG Duhon/Stoudamire/Lowry

I haven't done all the calculations, but it looks like they would have money to go after a larger name FA (not max, but above MLE) after re-signing Noc.


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

I think he WILL demand the trade before the deadline. Right now we're contender status, with Gasol on the frontline, I definintely think we can take the eastern conference.

I'm more than willing to give UP that NY pick, regardless. We'd still have a nice group of young players to develop for the future. Accept TT as the prize of the EC/NY deal and let's get our young 20-10 player, who's pretty damn young himself.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

I was gonna say i think Kirk's contract can't really be moved since he's subject to the poison pill provision. But then i tried and worked out a deal that made pretty good sense for both sides despite the ppp.

Bulls send kirk, pj, sweets, pick
Griz send gasol, swift


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## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

Rhyder said:


> Here's what I was thinking if trade demands started:
> 
> Duhon
> Nocioni
> ...


If you're going to throw in the NYK pick, might as well throw in something extra to get Rudy Gay. I thought he was the most desirable prospect in the draft last year as it was.


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

DaBabyBullz said:


> If you're going to throw in the NYK pick, might as well throw in something extra to get Rudy Gay. I thought he was the most desirable prospect in the draft last year as it was.


....

They're not gonna give up Rudy gay man..no need to have all that clutter at SF...be happy with Deng, TT & Khyrapa


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## fl_flash (Aug 19, 2002)

The Krakken said:


> I'm not sure I agree with this. If Pau is not enough of an upgrade over Deng (he isn't) or Noce (???) to warrant a significant REDUCTION in minutes for one of them, then he certainly isn't worth giving much up for at all.
> 
> If he is, then one of them needs to go, as they will be wasting away here on the bench. And then we'll lose them at the end of the season to FA (likely in the case of NOC) anyway. I'd hate to see Noc reduced to 15 minutes per. BUt what I'd REALLY hate is to give up Hinrich or Gordon, PLUS THE PICK, and get a guy that's only gonna give us 25-30 minutes a night. He'd better be WAY better than what he have at the four now, and as such, warrant much more PT. And if he is, then Noc needs to go. No way on Deng.


I'm not seeing why this has to be an either/or. It's not that Gasol is THAT much better than Deng or Noce. It's that Gasol is WAAAAYYYY better than Brown/Thomas/Allen/Sweetney. Those are they guys whose minutes Gasol would take. You start Wallace/Gasol/Deng and Nocioni is your supersub. If those four guys play an average of 30 mis. each, that still leaves 24 mins of frontcourt minutes for Thomas/Allen/whomever.

Moving Hinrich would hurt. We'd be weaker in the backcourt and we'd need production from Thabo and probably the Hawk, but it's much easier to get a backcourt replacement with a MLE than a decent frontcourt player. The pick is necessary to get Memphis to even consider it. Plus, it would be really weird to root for the Knicks to win instead of lose!


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

fl_flash said:


> Moving Hinrich would hurt. We'd be weaker in the backcourt and we'd need production from Thabo and probably the Hawk, but it's much easier to get a backcourt replacement with a MLE than a decent frontcourt player. The pick is necessary to get Memphis to even consider it. Plus, it would be really weird to root for the Knicks to win instead of lose!


Even though I'm not a big supporter of it, if you move Kirk, you've got to consider trying the Deng at the 2 experiment. It's not his ideal position, but I'd hate to be relying on Thabo when you don't know if he's up for the job.

Ben/Duhon
Deng/Thabo
Noc/Deng/Griff
Gasol/Thomas/Noc
Wallace/Gasol/Allen


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

jnrjr79 said:


> Even though I'm not a big supporter of it, if you move Kirk, you've got to consider trying the Deng at the 2 experiment. It's not his ideal position, but I'd hate to be relying on Thabo when you don't know if he's up for the job.
> 
> Ben/Duhon
> Deng/Thabo
> ...


That's why I don't think trading Kirk makes sense. You can get away with traing Duhon because Gordon, Thabo, and Griffin can all run the show from the PG in spurts.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

jnrjr79 said:


> Even though I'm not a big supporter of it, if you move Kirk, you've got to consider trying the Deng at the 2 experiment. It's not his ideal position, but I'd hate to be relying on Thabo when you don't know if he's up for the job.
> 
> Ben/Duhon
> Deng/Thabo
> ...


That's a good looking lineup. Duhon and Gordon have also played well next to each other in the past


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

I'd be all for trading Hinrich for a healthy Gasol.

Deng at the 2 though?

IMO, Deng is much more of a 4 than a 2 at this point. He's guarding the opposing 4 many times... he's posting up now (pretty effectively at times) and does not handle the ball much other than during his cuts to the basket. He has eliminated the 3 point shot from his repertoire, which is one of the main reasons behind his great fg% as of late.

As Deng ages and fills out, he's going to be able to play the 4 very effectively. Heck, he pretty much is already. I just don't think he has the game to play the 2.

If we make a Hinrich/pick trade for Gasol you bring either Deng or Nocioni off the bench and start Duhon and Gordon to start off. Or try Nocioni at the 2 (ick)….. and hopefully in the not so distant future start Gordon and Thabo.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

Getting Gasol wouldn't be easy but it would be something that would be very interesting for the Bulls. I am sure Pax has had a few conversations with West about it too. I would think that #1 we would have to include Gordon or Hinrich and I don't see us moving Hinrich. So Gordon for sure. Also Memphis would want our pick but we absolutely have to protect it top 3 because if we get lucky and can land Oden or Durrant but traded the pick with no protection we will be kicking ourselves for the next decade. So, Gordon and the top 3 protected pick. Then you would have to, of course, throw in PJ Brown for his expiring deal and to get the salaries closer. Personally, I want Miller too. He was the 6th man of the year a couple of years ago too and would make a real nice sg to have in our backcourt. I was actually sort of thinking about this last night before I even saw this thread. To get Miller we would probably have to give Memphis Duhon as well and probably another throw in like Malik Allen to make salaries match. I wouldn't be surprised if West also tried to get us to give up Thomas but I don't think I would

So,

Mike Miller
& Pau Gasol for

Gordon
top 3 protected pick
PJ Brown
Duhon
(and possibly Malik Allen or another throw in)

Thats a good deal for the Bulls but I have to believe Memphis could probably command more than that.

ACE


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## Philomath (Jan 3, 2003)

Adrian Griffin got a three year deal from is in the offseason, and he's getting $1.5 million this year. And, the Bulls swapped the potential of JR Smith specifically to get AGs current, veteran presence on this team. 

Griffin has played in only half the games (partially due to injury) and has averaged only 8 minutes in the games he has played. 

I'm starting to think that Pax was looking ahead, and paid for AG not because he fits in with this roster, but because he fits in with the roster we'll have in the spring. AG, plus the Thabo trade, enable us to even discuss this Pau idea, don't they? Maybe we should have seen those two moves as a backcourt trade in the making. There's talent in the backcourt, but it has never seemed like a finished product to me. Maybe this guard rotation is just a waypoint in Paxson's grand plan for world domination - or something.


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

DaBabyBullz said:


> If you're going to throw in the NYK pick, might as well throw in something extra to get Rudy Gay. I thought he was the most desirable prospect in the draft last year as it was.


I didn't view my trade proposal as "throwing in the pick." 

What would you propose to give up to get Gay? I certainly wouldn't give up another core player. And I don't think Memphis would accept any less? No reason to get younger if we're trying to make a consolidation trade. Besides, we'll still have Tyrus and Thabo to develop.


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## theanimal23 (Mar 2, 2005)

Pau Gasol is the one guy I would throw the NYK pick in for. No one else not named Lebron, Howard, Wade, Melo, etc. He is young, and similar aged to our core. He would be a perfect compliment to Wallace and the missing link on our team. 

I do think West will try to get an amazing deal, but it depends how STRONGLY Pau wants out. Does he want out like Artest/Iverson? We have more assets than any other team. The entire league knows that. While I think the Grizzlies can get more from the Celts, 'pieces' wise (how many players and picks they would want to give up), we have better 'pieces' and would need to offer less because of this.

The main pieces of a trade that I think would make it work:

NYK pick - They won't do a trade otherwise. While I would be pissed if it ended up being Oden, it's a chance we have to take. You don't find a 26 year old post player who puts up 20 + 10 everyday. 

Duhon - They get a steady PG on a cheap contract.

Obviously Sweets and PJ

I think Gordon would be a player they would want. It would fill the void of Eddie Jones, and give them a valuable player. I do not think Deng or Kirk will leave before hand. I could see Noce being thrown in place of Gordon, but I do not know if Memphis takes that.

We in return get back Miller and Gasol. Miller gives us a shooting guard who won't light you up like Ben Gordon

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/featur...10~99~2377~2381~996~558&teams=29~29~29~29~4~4


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

ace20004u said:


> Getting Gasol wouldn't be easy but it would be something that would be very interesting for the Bulls. I am sure Pax has had a few conversations with West about it too. I would think that #1 we would have to include Gordon or Hinrich and I don't see us moving Hinrich. So Gordon for sure. Also Memphis would want our pick but we absolutely have to protect it top 3 because if we get lucky and can land Oden or Durrant but traded the pick with no protection we will be kicking ourselves for the next decade. So, Gordon and the top 3 protected pick. Then you would have to, of course, throw in PJ Brown for his expiring deal and to get the salaries closer. Personally, I want Miller too. He was the 6th man of the year a couple of years ago too and would make a real nice sg to have in our backcourt. I was actually sort of thinking about this last night before I even saw this thread. To get Miller we would probably have to give Memphis Duhon as well and probably another throw in like Malik Allen to make salaries match. I wouldn't be surprised if West also tried to get us to give up Thomas but I don't think I would
> 
> So,
> 
> ...



My reasoning behind the trade is the following:

--Assuming we are trading for Gasol, our four fowards would be: Gasol, Tyrus, Deng, Noc, Khryapa

We have five guys who all could be starting for different teams. That isn't going to work. In fact, it already isn't working in Khryapa complaining about playing time, and a lot of us wishing Tyrus more developmental minutes. Having a large payroll, we should definately keep Tyrus given the rookie contract. Same goes for Khryapa, although his value isn't high enough to be considered more than a throw in. So it boils down to Noc vs. Deng, and I'd rather give up Noc. Noc also seems to fit better with Memphis current group of players and future ambitions in trading Gasol away.

--Noc, the pick, and some cap relief (remember they will have to re-sign Noc) probably isn't enough to land us Gasol, and they want a quality young PG... insert Duhon. We can handle the PG spot due to Gordon's improvement, the drafting/development of Thabo, the signing of Griffin, and we still have that little insurance policy in Barrett.

--Return us a big man to keep roster balance... insert Tsakalidis. I actually would prefer Lawrence Roberts, but I'm assuming they would as well. I think they'll be looking to move more money than the cap relief we would be offering, but I don't want Swift, Mighty Mouse, or Miller, because it will likely cost us one or more of our core players given our owners spending habits without really helping the cause (winning a championship). Of course, that might mean Gordon or Deng is their target still being on their rookie contract next season.

--So give them Noc, Duhon, the protected pick, and some cap relief in exchange for Gasol. Of course, Memphis would probably have to like Nocioni for any of this to work. But if a better opportunity comes, they can lose Noc and go after a big FA. It keeps their options open.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

The idea of trading the pick in this case is interesting to me. Seems like the opposite of the Brand trade.

We traded Brand, a guaranteed/known 20/10 PF for a guy with the potential to be "better" (I never understood better than 20/10 or Brand, but...)

In this case, is there anyone in the draft that's guaranteed to be better than Gasol?

I think not.​


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## theanimal23 (Mar 2, 2005)

The 6ft Hurdle said:


> Definitely got that right. 13.9 ppg in 38 mpg. The upside is that we get another white backcourt player for Skiles to stick out there no matter what.


I agree, but as Steven A Smith would say, he is SERVICEABLE :lol: 

We would still have good perimeter shooting, and the loss would not be to severe. I think Gasol and Miller would easily compensate for our loss of scoring from Ben Gordon. I do think West would target Gordon more than any other player on our team. While Deng is our best all-around player, Gordon has the greatest potential to EXPLODE when it comes to scoring. He would be given more freedome in Memphis, and we would see an increase in his numbers.

If this rumor is legit, I hope Gasol throws a fit and wants to get out ASAP. It would lower the value of the trade.


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## theanimal23 (Mar 2, 2005)

DaBullz said:


> The idea of trading the pick in this case is interesting to me. Seems like the opposite of the Brand trade.
> 
> We traded Brand, a guaranteed/known 20/10 PF for a guy with the potential to be "better" (I never understood better than 20/10 or Brand, but...)
> 
> ...


No one is a guarantee unless you are Lebron James. Oden is as close as it comes, but his offensive game is not refined enough for the NBA. He will get a lot of buckets early on due to his size and rebounding efforts. But he will need to develop his moves. Durant is suppose to be a franchise player, but one that will need to develop due to his body frame. Think TMac coming out of HS, but might not take the whole four years to take that leap.

I think the NYK pick is the greatest asset they would get in any trade, from anyone. Memphis would end up with two lottery picks. Who knows, maybe then get the first and fifth pick in a draft? Along with Chris Duhon and expiring contracts, that is a hell of a way to build. If Gordon is sent (depending if Pax does this), they have Duhon/Gordon/Gay/NYK Pick/MEM Pick


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## theanimal23 (Mar 2, 2005)

Rhyder said:


> --So give them Noc, Duhon, the protected pick, and some cap relief in exchange for Gasol. Of course, Memphis would probably have to like Nocioni for any of this to work. But if a better opportunity comes, they can lose Noc and go after a big FA. It keeps their options open.


I love Noce, but its a price we have to pay. He is the oldest of our core, and we will have to pay Deng and Gordon some cash soon. If Tyrus and Thabo pan out, they will get extensions in a few years. That is a lot of money for a solid group of 6 or so guys.

I hope Noce takes a slight paycut to stay with our team, but I cannot blame him for taking the best contract/playing time situation. He had to pay a lot of his buyout from his initial contract and this will be his best chance for a paying contract for his career.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

DaBullz said:


> The idea of trading the pick in this case is interesting to me. Seems like the opposite of the Brand trade.
> 
> We traded Brand, a guaranteed/known 20/10 PF for a guy with the potential to be "better" (I never understood better than 20/10 or Brand, but...)
> 
> ...


What I think gets lost as well in assessing the value of the pick is a consideration of what gives us the best chance to win trophies. If you believe Gasol gets us over that hump, I think you have to make the deal. There is something to be said for a bird in the hand, which you are referring to.


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## RSP83 (Nov 24, 2002)

PJ Brown's contract, Duhon (Duhon would be the best PG on their team), and the pick.

Grizzlies has no other choice but to rebuild. Their current team is not going anywhere even with Gasol. They need caps and draft picks to bring in Franchise/Superstar level player.

Gordon, Deng, Hinrich, Noc, TT, Sef all stay!

Gordon is the only player in this team that has the killer instinct. Deng is our mr. consistent. Hinrich is the catalyst. Noc is the spark. Sef is our future third guard. And TT is going to replace Big Ben's defensive production one day.

And Gasol's experience and low post offense would fit this team like a glove.

Pax really needs to work the phone now. work the phone hard! Get a third team or fourth if that's what it takes to get Gasol without sacrificing our 6 guys core I mentioned above. give them both of our picks if we need to. I'm sure there's a way.


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## rwj333 (Aug 10, 2002)

MikeDC said:


> I was gonna say i think Kirk's contract can't really be moved since he's subject to the poison pill provision. But then i tried and worked out a deal that made pretty good sense for both sides despite the ppp.
> 
> Bulls send kirk, pj, sweets, pick
> Griz send gasol, swift


That's clearly a great deal, but I think any deal has to involve one of our small forwards.


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## rwj333 (Aug 10, 2002)

RSP83 said:


> PJ Brown's contract, Duhon (Duhon would be the best PG on their team), and the pick.
> 
> Grizzlies has no other choice but to rebuild. Their current team is not going anywhere even with Gasol. They need caps and draft picks to bring in Franchise/Superstar level player.
> 
> ...


The Lakers could offer Odom + Bynum + their pick. Phoenix has a large number of assets, and multiple first round picks, that they could use. Boston could always offer Green + Jefferson + Telfair. It will take at least one good player and the pick to get Gasol. 

I really wish Memphis' ownership situation would get resolved.


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## The 6ft Hurdle (Jan 25, 2003)

theanimal23 said:


> I agree, but as Steven A Smith would say, he is SERVICEABLE :lol:
> 
> We would still have good perimeter shooting, and the loss would not be to severe. I think Gasol and Miller would easily compensate for our loss of scoring from Ben Gordon. I do think West would target Gordon more than any other player on our team. While Deng is our best all-around player, Gordon has the greatest potential to EXPLODE when it comes to scoring. He would be given more freedome in Memphis, and we would see an increase in his numbers.
> 
> If this rumor is legit, I hope Gasol throws a fit and wants to get out ASAP. It would lower the value of the trade.


Obviously I don't agree, but when I think of trading Gordon, I always wonder how this team is going to handle the pressure when the game is on the line. We don't lose JUST scoring, we lose a playmaker, a guy who makes sure to stop the bleeding if things get out of hand, and can instantly turn a bad game into a good one. Am I the only one who thinks that makes a big difference? Noc can step up and make big plays, but he can't score in bunches like BG can.

But of course this doesn't mean don't go for the Gas.

Gasol would be #2 on my list to acquire behind KG, but as with any deal with KG where we give away BG, I think his effect would be wasted. I would love MikeDC's deal, especially if we didn't give up Noc in the process.


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## RSP83 (Nov 24, 2002)

DaBullz said:


> The idea of trading the pick in this case is interesting to me. Seems like the opposite of the Brand trade.
> 
> We traded Brand, a guaranteed/known 20/10 PF for a guy with the potential to be "better" (I never understood better than 20/10 or Brand, but...)
> 
> ...


Hmm this draft is going to be loaded with All-Star potential. But, no player in this draft is going to put us over the hump immediately. Maybe Oden, but I don't think Durant will. Brandan Wright is very interesting but like Durant he's not going to do that for us. Not now.

I mean we've been putting pieces together. And now it's time to put the big piece. Ok, if they don't want the pick, let's give them TT. But not both. We need at least one fountain of youth to replace Ben Wallace one day.


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## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

Rhyder said:


> I didn't view my trade proposal as "throwing in the pick."
> 
> What would you propose to give up to get Gay? I certainly wouldn't give up another core player. And I don't think Memphis would accept any less? No reason to get younger if we're trying to make a consolidation trade. Besides, we'll still have Tyrus and Thabo to develop.


In your scenario, 

Duhon
Nocioni
Brown
1st Pick (top 3 protected)

I think we're giving away the 1st. Nocioni, Duhon and Brown should pretty much equate to Gasol....remember, he's ASKING to be traded, so his value, and the Grizz's bargaining power goes down. That's also a starting Guard, AND a starting PF plus a valuable expiring contract, for a starting power forward coming off of a broken foot. Remember the 3/4 for a dollar thing? That would apply here. Nocioni is only 7 months older than Gasol, and is very productive. The charges he takes can't be measured statistically either. I'd say that Nocioni is about 3/4 as valuable as Gasol, simply because he doesn't put up quite the stats, but most importantly because of Gasol being 7'. But when someone demands a trade, their value goes down to about 3/4. 

Add to that the fact that lottery picks in the next draft should be very valuable, even the top 10....I expect the draft to be very deep...much better than this last one where you didn't have any surefire superstars like there will be in the next draft, and only 6 "elite" prospects...this one should have a LOT more than that if they go pro. So in other words, the whole lottery might yield good players, and when you figure Gasol isn't a real big upgrade over Nocioni, it's not worth giving up a potential superstar for. What happens if that pick turns into Oden, Durant, etc, and all we have to show from it is Gasol (instead of Nocioni AND that player)? You simply do NOT trade that pick when there is a pretty good shot at getting a stud in the draft....I don't expect we'll have the opportunity to pick in the lottery again for quite a long time unless something drastic happens. 

Don't get me wrong, I'd like to get Gasol, and would give up Nocioni and filler for him, but I wouldn't give up any of the other core (Deng, Tyrus, Ben, Kirk, NYK 1st). Heck, I'd give up Ben Wallace for him in a heartbeat straight up too lol.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

I'd do

Kirk Hinrich
PJ Brown
07 Pick Unprotected 

for Gasol.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

Rhyder said:


> My reasoning behind the trade is the following:
> 
> --Assuming we are trading for Gasol, our four fowards would be: Gasol, Tyrus, Deng, Noc, Khryapa
> 
> ...



I understand your reasoning regarding Deng & Nocioni but in my mind both of those guys are close to untouchable. The way Noc has been performing he may actually be MORE valuable than Gasol himself. Plus he is the heart, the scrap in this team, if we lose him it would hurt big time. I don't see the logjam as that big of a concern since Noc can play either the 3 or the 4.

ACE


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## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

ace20004u said:


> I understand your reasoning regarding Deng & Nocioni but in my mind both of those guys are close to untouchable. The way Noc has been performing he may actually be MORE valuable than Gasol himself. Plus he is the heart, the scrap in this team, if we lose him it would hurt big time. I don't see the logjam as that big of a concern since Noc can play either the 3 or the 4.
> 
> ACE


I see your point, BUT, look at it this way. What is more valuable, a 6'7" SF/PF, or a 7' PF/C that has a little better stats? The 7' PF/C with a little better stats is more valuable. I agree that Nocioni's tenacity is very valuable to the team, but how valuable would an actually 7 footer be to our undersized team? Now if we could trade say Duhon, PJ and Nocioni for Gasol, a lineup looking like this would be VERY good.

Kirk/Thabo
Gordon
Deng/Khryapa
Gasol/Thomas
Wallace

Now, if we kept the pick, and picked up Durant or Oden or another quality lottery player with it, imagine that team. Oden replacing Big Ben...we'd have all the younger pieces we'd need for a dynasty IMO. We give up that pick for Gasol, and in a few years we're left with CRAP at the C position.


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## Sith (Oct 20, 2003)

guys, please look at from a clear perspective. why the hell would the grizzlies trade a young big man stud for likes of sweetney, pj brown, duhon? 

i will say it again, we will need to probably give up gordon+deng for someone like gasol. i perfer noc+gordon for gasol, but memphis probably won't do it.


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## Sith (Oct 20, 2003)

while we are at it, we might as well trade kirk for KG straight up because our guys are worth 5x more than their actual ability.


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## RSP83 (Nov 24, 2002)

rwj333 said:


> The Lakers could offer Odom + Bynum + their pick. Phoenix has a large number of assets, and multiple first round picks, that they could use. Boston could always offer Green + Jefferson + Telfair. It will take at least one good player and the pick to get Gasol.
> 
> I really wish Memphis' ownership situation would get resolved.


I can't see the Lakers trading anybody other than Bynum at this point. Their team is rolling nicely right now and Odom is a big part of that. Bynum have great value, but the salary won't match. Odom's not going anywhere.

Danny Ainge seems to be very interested in Gasol. Celtics has a good chance.

Who's the Suns going to give up? Marion? the Suns is not going to be the same without Marion. Maybe Barbosa who's on the verge of breaking out if he's a starter. But, I think the Suns is set for this season. This is the first time they have their full team back and they're doing very good. If it's broken don't fix it.

Pax needs to call Atlanta to ask them to join the trade. They have too many wings Childress, Josh Smith, and Marvin Williams and they need a good PG and veteran player.

And The Clippers who's been shopping Maggette and Mobley around the league.

Get it done Pax!!!


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## ztect (Jun 12, 2002)

Well if the Bulls do acquire Gasol, w/o giving up Noc who they resign, and Deng develops into a 4, a futre line-up could be....

5- Gasol Spain
4- Deng- Sudan
3- Noc- Argentina
2- Thabo- Switzerland

Bulls will just need to trade for Parker to have a United Nations Team


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

ztect said:


> Well if the Bulls do acquire Gasol, w/o giving up Noc who they resign, and Deng develops into a 4, a futre line-up could be....
> 
> 5- Gasol Spain
> 4- Deng- Sudan
> ...


Gordon was born in London.

:biggrin:


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## RSP83 (Nov 24, 2002)

ztect said:


> Well if the Bulls do acquire Gasol, w/o giving up Noc who they resign, and Deng develops into a 4, a futre line-up could be....
> 
> 5- Gasol Spain
> 4- Deng- Sudan
> ...


How can you forget about our future Lithuania's God of Basketball, Marty Andrews! He's going to own everybody on our team.


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## RSP83 (Nov 24, 2002)

God... I can just imagine Red Kerr and Chicago Media calling Gasol "El Matador" or "El Toro"


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## theanimal23 (Mar 2, 2005)

The 6ft Hurdle said:


> Obviously I don't agree, but when I think of trading Gordon...


I agree. We need Gordon. He is our closer. I just think, he will be the most wanted asset out of our team, unless we give up Deng. 

I think the NYK pick should be enough, but as stated, other teams have multiple first round picks in an amazing draft.


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## Vintage (Nov 8, 2002)

ztect said:


> Well if the Bulls do acquire Gasol, w/o giving up Noc who they resign, and Deng develops into a 4, a futre line-up could be....
> 
> 5- Gasol Spain
> 4- Deng- Sudan
> ...


Yeah. And seeing at how the UN works....that is probably not a good squad to assemble.


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## theanimal23 (Mar 2, 2005)

Vintage said:


> Yeah. And seeing at how the UN works....that is probably not a good squad to assemble.


Vintage, we definitely need to get rid of Zimmer. Do you go to cowboyszone.com/forums? I recently found that forum, I have yet to post though. It takes me a while to post, as it took me about 5 years to register to post here, haha. Hopefully Romo bounces back, but I'm worried about their D more than anything. This week is a must-win. 

O'Yeah, if you compare the quality of postings on this board vs the Boys forum, its just vastly superior here.

Romo Empire Baby


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

I can't see the Bulls trading Kirk in anycase, but I actually think the sort of trade I propose would make very good sense for the Bulls.

Yes, we still have the "problem" of Noc/Deng/Tyrus. I'd look first to see if Deng really could handle the for stretches.

If not is there any reason to think we couldn't tradeNoc for a decent SG down the line?


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

No less than Deng+NYK pick swap...if you think you can get a 7 foot post scorer, that boards, blocks shots, and passes well that has not entered his prime for a 1st rounder and scraps, you are insane.


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## step (Sep 19, 2005)

Gasol needs to stop dancing around the situation and just call for the trade, it's becoming tiresome.


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## Sith (Oct 20, 2003)

MemphisX said:


> No less than Deng+NYK pick swap...if you think you can get a 7 foot post scorer, that boards, blocks shots, and passes well that has not entered his prime for a 1st rounder and scraps, you are insane.


exactly, finally someone with some common sense. some people were rooting for the trade of sweetney,duhon, pj brown for gasol. blah blah" i dont wanan give up deng or gordon"


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

MemphisX said:


> No less than Deng+NYK pick swap...if you think you can get a 7 foot post scorer, that boards, blocks shots, and passes well that has not entered his prime for a 1st rounder and scraps, you are insane.


Yah, I agree.

This is a fair price for Gasol.


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## bullsger (Jan 14, 2003)

How about this trade?

Chicago Bulls:

Outgoing
PJ Brown
M. Sweetney
V. Khyrapa
(perhaps the NY pick top 3 protected)

Incoming
P. Gasol
L. Roberts


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## Bulldozer (Jul 11, 2006)

MemphisX said:


> No less than Deng+NYK pick swap...if you think you can get a 7 foot post scorer, that boards, blocks shots, and passes well that has not entered his prime for a 1st rounder and scraps, you are insane.


For a rebuilding team, to accomodate a player that's hinting he wants out, I think this is very fair for Gasol:

'07 NYK pick *(unprotected)*, '07 2nd rounders, Andres Nocioni, Chris Duhon, + PJ Brown

As it is currently, your team is the front runner for the #1 pick. To get another very high pick + 2 2nd rndrs, including 2 very solid players from the Bulls its something West (or whomever) would have to seriously consider. It will be a deep draft, especially in the top 5-10.

From the Bulls side, they should have the approach that they are very young as it is, and do not have to rely on 3 2007 draft picks. This makes sense for both parties personnel, future, and economic wise.


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## Salvaged Ship (Jul 10, 2002)

The team we have now has won 10 of 11 games, Ben Wallace is coming into his own, we are scoring loads of points, Thomas is showing signs of being very special. I say we stay with what we have until the deadline. If Thomas becomes consitently the player he was last night we don't need Gasol. If we get Gasol, you might as well include TT in the deal because he would get no playing time with Gasol on the team. I want to see Thomas develop. He could end up leading the league in blocks in a few years.

Lets stay as is for a while. Despite some problems on defense (which I put down to poor rotations and help, not height) things are getting interesting. This may work out better as is, and we keep that pick which could turn to gold.


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

bullsger said:


> How about this trade?
> 
> Chicago Bulls:
> 
> ...


don't be silly man


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## Bulls rock your socks (Jun 29, 2006)

Gasol to the Bulls 

Duhon, Rebraca, Tsakalidis to the Bobcats

Miller, Robinson to the Clippers

Brown, Sweetney, Brezec, Maggette, and 1st round to Memphis


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## bullsger (Jan 14, 2003)

The ROY said:


> don't be silly man


I'm quite not sure, that Gasol will again a 20/10 man after this injury.


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## Bulls rock your socks (Jun 29, 2006)

he'll be a 15 and 6 guy instead. doesnt need to be dominant.


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## Qwerty123 (May 31, 2002)

Here's my trade proposal that, I think, takes all teams wishes into consideration:

I'd expect the Bulls would have to give up Brown, NY pick, and one of Gordon, Deng, Nocioni, or Thomas with Deng/Noc/TT the more likely candidates due to PT limitations with the addition of Gasol. Thomas would be my choice to include, with Noc second.

The framework all begins with the question: what would the Grizz hope to get out of trading a young stud, multidimensional PF? Answer: it's a sign of rebuilding, so they'd want young players, draft picks, and cap space. The NY pick would almost certainly have to be included. Assuming it is, Memphis would probably be looking at 2 top 10 picks next year likely to be 2 bigs.

They'd have young players at the 2 (Miller), 3 (Gay), 4 (Warrick, pick), and 5 (Swift, pick). The obvious hole is at PG, but I wouldn't want to trade Hinrich or Gordon, so I looked for a third team with a spare young PG and found Dallas to be a good fit with Devin Harris. He'd be a good young uptempo PG to run the show with the young athletes Memphis would have.

So, I'd route TT to Dallas, NY pick and Brown to Memphis, with Memphis also getting Harris.

Dallas would have to give more and Memphis might ask for more. For the Bulls, it would be nice to protect that NY pick. Given those conditions, I'd think if Memphis can clear more cap space (with Dallas taking a long-term contract), the Bulls could protect the pick since Memphis would have the chance of grabbing someone from the bumper 2007 FA class as consolation in case they don't get the NY pick.

For Memphis, simply trading Gasol for an expiring contract, Harris, and the NY pick doesn't quite give them max cap space, so I'm sure they'd like to include one of Cardinal, Swift, or Stoudamire, with Cardinal probably at the top of their list.

So, after all that discussion, here's the deal I came up with:

Chicago trades: Thomas, Brown, NY pick (top 5 protected)
Chicago gets: Gasol

Memphis trades: Gasol, Cardinal
Memphis gets: Harris, Brown (expiring), Croshere (expiring), NY pick (top 5 protected)

Dallas trades: Harris, Croshere
Dallas gets: Thomas, Cardinal

Chicago:
Hinrich (Duhon)
Gordon (Thabo)
Deng (Khryapa)
Gasol (Nocioni, Sweetney)
Wallace

We'd be very close to the luxury tax assuming MikeDC's salary proections hold true, but his tax growth assumption seems pretty conservative. If Pax were more worried, he could include Noc instead of TT.

Memphis:
Harris (Stoudamire)
Miller (FA - Carter?)
Gay
Warrick (2007 pick)
Swift (2007 pick)

To show for Gasol, they'd have Harris, a likely top 10 pick, and the chance to get a top tier FA--three pretty good players.

Dallas:
Terry (Johnson)
Stackhouse (Buckner)
Howard (Thomas)
Nowitzki
Dampier (Diop)

Thomas would bolster their defense, and losing Harris isn't big since they have Terry locked up long-term. I'm not sure how serious Cuban is about getting under the luxury tax, but this would put them slightly over.


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## The Krakken (Jul 17, 2002)

kukoc4ever said:


> Yah, I agree.
> 
> This is a fair price for Gasol.


It may be a fair price. But its one that I'm not willing to pay. No deal.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

I really, really don't want to trade Thomas.


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## McBulls (Apr 28, 2005)

The Krakken said:


> It may be a fair price. But its one that I'm not willing to pay. No deal.


I agree. Trading a very young future all-star Deng, a legitimate shot at a young starting center in the '07 draft and good point guard for a gimpy center who has never won anything is not that tempting. 

Go fish Memphis. We're not the ones who are going out of business and who need to reduce our salary structure because we have no fan support. And Gasol wants to play for us, not you.

Best offer :

Duhon, 2007 1st, PJ Brown. That's it. Otherwise, go fish in the Mississippi.


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## bullsger (Jan 14, 2003)

McBulls said:


> I agree. Trading a very young future all-star Deng, a legitimate shot at a young starting center in the '07 draft and good point guard for a gimpy center who has never won anything is not that tempting.
> 
> Go fish Memphis. We're not the ones who are going out of business and who need to reduce our salary structure because we have no fan support. And Gasol wants to play for us, not you.
> 
> ...


This sound good. 2007 1st unprotected?


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## The Krakken (Jul 17, 2002)

bullsger said:


> This sound good. 2007 1st unprotected?


Fine. Sure. Why not. Of course, I'm having second thoughts, now that NYK has officially imploded.:yay: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2:


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

MemphisX said:


> No less than Deng+NYK pick swap...if you think you can get a 7 foot post scorer, that boards, blocks shots, and passes well that has not entered his prime for a 1st rounder and scraps, you are insane.


If this were last year's draft, Deng + the pick swap would be a perfectly reasonable trade. This draft looks to have even more star power than '03.

I think Deng is virtually "untouchable" for us right now. 

What did you think of my proposed trade? Or are Nocioni + Duhon just "scraps." I do see him in your sig, so you have to ike him at least a little???


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

2 straight losses since he's been back, how long do you guys think it'll be before Pau pubically demands a trade?


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