# OT - Bonzi is going to the KINGS - 3 way trade (Merged)



## B_&_B (Feb 19, 2004)

*OT - Bonzi is going to the KINGS - 3 way trade*

ESPN RADIO is reporting that a 3 team deal has been made. Bobby Jackson and Kirk Snyder go to Memphis, Ostertag goes back to Utah, and Bonzi heads to the Kings.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

*Re: OT - Bonzi is going to the KINGS*

Memphis won in this trade....

What is Utah thinking?

Is Bonzi really worth Bobby Jackson and Ostertag?


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## B_&_B (Feb 19, 2004)

*Re: OT - Bonzi is going to the KINGS - 3 way trade*

Utah must not think much of Snyder, because Ostertag is pretty much worthless.


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: OT - Bonzi is going to the KINGS*



zagsfan20 said:


> Memphis won in this trade....
> 
> What is Utah thinking?
> 
> Is Bonzi really worth Bobby Jackson and Ostertag?


Meh, it's basically Bobby Jackson and that's it. Ostertag doesn't have much of a function anymore (although I would have rather had him than Kirk Snyder and the other Jazz scrubs).

Still, I'm thrilled West got a player as good as B-Jax is for Bonzi, instead of letting him walk for squat.

I guess we can finally decide who "won" that Memphis-Portland deal..


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## Reep (Jun 4, 2003)

*Re: OT - Bonzi is going to the KINGS - 3 way trade*

The only guy I would want out of that whole trade is Bobby Jackson, and that is not saying much. I think Utah did fine. I wonder how Adleman will like working with Bonzi?


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## Webster's Dictionary (Feb 26, 2004)

*Re: OT - Bonzi is going to the KINGS - 3 way trade*

How does Sac Town throw away Bobby Jackson for Bonzi? That makes 0 sense to me. Bobby's been injured a lot in his career, but Bonzi is an underachieving cancer. He's been run out of two cities already. Why did the Kings do this?


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## RoddneyThaRippa (Jun 28, 2003)

*Re: OT - Bonzi is going to the KINGS - 3 way trade*

What is Utah doing? Are there salary implications for Ostertag or something? I mean, Kirk Snyder will be a decent player someday. What the hell does Utah get out of it?


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## The Sebastian Express (Mar 3, 2005)

*Re: OT - Bonzi is going to the KINGS - 3 way trade*

Here is the link:

http://www.commercialappeal.com/mca/grizzlies/article/0,1426,MCA_475_3946734,00.html


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## ProudBFan (Apr 29, 2003)

*Re: OT - Bonzi is going to the KINGS - 3 way trade*

Great deal for the Grizz.

Horrible deal for both the Kings and the Jazz.

And shame on the Kings. I mean, really. They should know almost better than anyone except the Blazers what kind of headache Wells is.

Sounds to me like the Kings are getting desperate to keep their talent level up. They should be ripe trade partners for expiring contracts this time next season when they go into full rebuild mode.

PBF


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

*Re: OT - Bonzi is going to the KINGS - 3 way trade*

Interesting trade. A couple of things seem to be reflected here (I'm assuming there are no significant picks involved):

1. Utah was willing to give up on Snyder for almost nothing. With Arroyo they at least got a future first (which they sent later to Portland). It seems that Utah was willing to take on additional salary in an expiring Ostertag than pay Snyder the rest of his rookie deal. EDIT: Looks like the Jazz also traded two more busts from the first round, Borchardt and Lopez, so they will actually end up saving money this year AND next from this deal.

2. Sacramento is just trading two expiring contracts for Wells' expiring contract. They get the best player in the deal, and if he melts down they can let him walk next summer. It'll be interesting to see who they use as their backup PG now, though.

3. Memphis can use Jackson, but I don't know how well Snyder fits. They've already got Miller and Battier and Posey and Jones for the swing spots. It will be interesting to see what, if any, value they can get for Watson (who might be a good fit with the Kings at this point).

Ed O.


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## RoddneyThaRippa (Jun 28, 2003)

*Re: OT - Bonzi is going to the KINGS - 3 way trade*



TheoSaysNo said:


> How does Sac Town throw away Bobby Jackson for Bonzi? That makes 0 sense to me. Bobby's been injured a lot in his career, but Bonzi is an underachieving cancer. He's been run out of two cities already. Why did the Kings do this?


Nah, Bonzi will be fine, partly because he'll actually get the playing time he deserves and in a positive environment, with a guard like Bibby and someone inside like Brad Miller. 

With the assortment of scorers around Bonzi, he can thrive in this system. I like the fit.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

*Re: OT - Bonzi is going to the KINGS - 3 way trade*



RoddneyThaRippa said:


> Nah, Bonzi will be fine, partly because he'll actually get the playing time he deserves and in a positive environment, with a guard like Bibby and someone inside like Brad Miller.


didn't help when we had someone inside like Sabonis, or Pippen.

but if there's one thing about Bonzi that's true..is he's a follower...well, that's not true. there's no ******* in memphis to follow..

I guess Bonzi is what Bonzi is. a dip****.



> With the assortment of scorers around Bonzi, he can thrive in this system. I like the fit.


Just like Portland fans thought we could fix JR Rider.


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## cimalee (Apr 17, 2003)

*Re: OT - Bonzi is going to the KINGS - 3 way trade*

Kings got a steal . Bonzi will fit with the kings nicely


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: OT - Bonzi is going to the KINGS - 3 way trade*



Hap said:


> didn't help when we had someone inside like Sabonis, or Pippen.
> 
> but if there's one thing about Bonzi that's true..is he's a follower...well, that's not true. there's no ******* in memphis to follow..
> 
> I guess Bonzi is what Bonzi is. a dip****.


Not to deny that Bonzi's a headcase unto himself, but he had plenty of "headcase" friends in Memphis with Jason Williams, Stromile Swift and possibly even James Posey (the foursome that made Hubie quit). It was a really bad situation in Memphis for most of last year. We had a group of players who just completely turned on not one, but two coaches.

One thing that was obvious in Memphis was that when Bonzi plays and the team wins, he's not an issue in the slightest. It's when he goes to the bench and/or the team loses is when you can see the steam come out of his ears.

Like Adelman's never worked with headcases before anyway...I hope Memphis fans aren't bitterly talking about Stromile Swift in 2007 or 2008. How pointless would that be?


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## ProudBFan (Apr 29, 2003)

*Re: OT - Bonzi is going to the KINGS - 3 way trade*



cimalee said:


> Kings got a steal . Bonzi will fit with the kings nicely


Bonzi Wells?

Bonzi FREAKING Wells?

The same Bonzi Wells who got booted from his All-State high-school team... by his fellow team-mates?

The same Bonzi Wells who converted his Key to Portland into a one-way ticket out of town?

The same Bonzi Wells who had a restraining order placed against him by his own coach to keep him away from the team during the playoffs last season?

:no:

PBF


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: OT - Bonzi is going to the KINGS - 3 way trade*



ProudBFan said:


> Bonzi Wells?
> 
> The same Bonzi Wells who had a restraining order placed against him by his own coach to keep him away from the team during the playoffs last season?
> 
> PBF


Don't know if this is a joke, but if it isn't, it's highly inaccurate.


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## RoddneyThaRippa (Jun 28, 2003)

*Re: OT - Bonzi is going to the KINGS - 3 way trade*



Hap said:


> didn't help when we had someone inside like Sabonis, or Pippen.
> 
> but if there's one thing about Bonzi that's true..is he's a follower...well, that's not true. there's no ******* in memphis to follow..
> 
> ...


Hate all you want, but Bonzi isn't the only one to blame for his situation in Portland. He played his *** off for you in the playoffs, too. 

The bottom line is Bonzi fits right into that system. Will his attitude adjust? Maybe, maybe not, but he's worth the gamble. I'm not surprised to see all these Portland fans hating, but Bonzi is a fine player. He'll do just fine.


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## SheedSoNasty (Dec 31, 2002)

*Re: OT - Bonzi is going to the KINGS - 3 way trade*

IF, and yes, that's a big IF, Bonzi finds a way to calm down, he could be a great fit for the kings. Before the trade, Sac's only real pure shooting guard was Kevin Martin. Although Martin had a pretty good summer league, someone like Bonzi is enough insurance just in case Kev doesn't pan out. Although it's a big risk, it could, again COULD end up working out perfectly with the type of system they run. When you consider that Bobby Jackson seems to be on his last legs, Sacramento won from a talent standpoint.

Who knows what Utah's doing.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

*Re: OT - Bonzi is going to the KINGS - 3 way trade*



Rawse said:


> Not to deny that Bonzi's a headcase unto himself, but he had plenty of "headcase" friends in Memphis with Jason Williams, Stromile Swift and possibly even James Posey (the foursome that made Hubie quit). It was a really bad situation in Memphis for most of last year. We had a group of players who just completely turned on not one, but two coaches.


hm...I didn't think they were as bad as the duo here, but obviously you'd know.



> One thing that was obvious in Memphis was that when Bonzi plays and the team wins, he's not an issue in the slightest. It's when he goes to the bench and/or the team loses is when you can see the steam come out of his ears.


or when he feels he's been slighted. Man, it's such a shame too, because he's a damn fine player. 


> Like Adelman's never worked with headcases before anyway..


the only headcase I can think of is Sprewell. what other headcases has he had to deal with?



> .I hope Memphis fans aren't bitterly talking about Stromile Swift in 2007 or 2008. How pointless would that be?


it's like clockwork rawse. You can almost set your watch by it.


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## RoddneyThaRippa (Jun 28, 2003)

*Re: OT - Bonzi is going to the KINGS - 3 way trade*



ProudBFan said:


> Bonzi Wells?
> 
> Bonzi FREAKING Wells?
> 
> ...


Get over it. Bonzi is seasons removed from your franchise, and both he and you and moving in different, better directions. Grow up. 

Hate, hate, hate, hate.....


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

*Re: OT - Bonzi is going to the KINGS - 3 way trade*



RoddneyThaRippa said:


> Hate all you want, but Bonzi isn't the only one to blame for his situation in Portland. He played his *** off for you in the playoffs, too.


where did I say he's the only one to blame? 

he might have played his "***" off, but he had 1 really good game, followed up by so-so games the rest of the series.



> The bottom line is Bonzi fits right into that system. Will his attitude adjust? Maybe, maybe not, but he's worth the gamble. I'm not surprised to see all these Portland fans hating, but Bonzi is a fine player. He'll do just fine.


I'd bet, outside of Ed O's "character? not important" mentality, that most of us have had a little more to deal with bonzi than memphis fans have, so we know more about how he is.


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## B_&_B (Feb 19, 2004)

*Re: OT - Bonzi is going to the KINGS - 3 way trade*

...



> Report: Wells to Kings in three-way deal with Grizzlies, Jazz
> 
> July 22, 2005
> MEMPHIS, Tennessee (Ticker) - Bonzi Wells apparently is no longer Jerry West's headache.
> ...


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## Spoolie Gee (Feb 3, 2005)

*Re: OT - Bonzi is going to the KINGS - 3 way trade*

Why does Bonzi have so many apologist? I just don't get it. I know he's a talented player but the guy is a head case. Always has been, always will be.


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## Perfection (May 10, 2004)

*Re: OT - Bonzi is going to the KINGS - 3 way trade*

If Bonzi gets his head together, he'll be fine. He certainly won't be asked to lead and they won't run many plays for him (with Peja, Bibby and Miller in there), but he's a great "garbage SG", by which I mean that he doesn't need plays to make things happen. I remember, how he used to seem to get pretty timely offensive putback dunks here in portland. I haven't watched him play since he left, so I don't know the status of his shot, although he used to have a good medium range jumper (but watch sketchy from 3).

Overall, I think that he could be fine, but that's a big IF - if he gets his act together. Sacramento needs to win now but they aren't the team they were 3 years ago....maybe Bonzi will help the team, but I don't see Sac. doing any real damage next year.


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: OT - Bonzi is going to the KINGS - 3 way trade*



Hap said:


> hm...I didn't think they were as bad as the duo here, but obviously you'd know.


Definitely not as formidable as Sheed/Bonzi/Patterson/Qyntel (and whoever else), but it certainly wasn't a great environment.



> or when he feels he's been slighted. Man, it's such a shame too, because he's a damn fine player.


I agree. He's a Top 50 talent with a Bottom 50 head. He also has a chip on his shoulder, but when he has a good outlook on things and nothing's bothering him, he's a guaranteed 18-20 ppg scorer.



> the only headcase I can think of is Sprewell. what other headcases has he had to deal with?


No one notorious, but he has coached Jason Williams, Jimmy Jackson, Jon Barry and Vernon Maxwell. Williams is quite underrated as a distraction and a baby, and the other three didn't have shining reputations before coming to the Kings.


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## B_&_B (Feb 19, 2004)

*Re: OT - Bonzi is going to the KINGS - 3 way trade*

Hopefully this will wake Bonzi up and make him realize that he needs to get his act together if he wants to get a good contract after this season. 

I was a big Bonzi fan, but as time went on, and he kept making the news for all the wrong reasons, I was then glad we traded him.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

*Re: OT - Bonzi is going to the KINGS - 3 way trade*



Rawse said:


> No one notorious, but he has coached Jason Williams, Jimmy Jackson, Jon Barry and Vernon Maxwell. Williams is quite underrated as a distraction and a baby, and the other three didn't have shining reputations before coming to the Kings.


you're right, I forgot that he coached those guys.


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## Talkhard (May 13, 2003)

*Re: OT - Bonzi is going to the KINGS - 3 way trade*



> Get over it. Bonzi is seasons removed from your franchise, and both he and you and moving in different, better directions. Grow up.
> 
> Hate, hate, hate, hate.....


I see this tactic a lot on the board. When someone says something negative about a player that you like, and you can't fight back with facts, just call him a hater. This is often done by those who have nothing much to really say.


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## SheedSoNasty (Dec 31, 2002)

*Re: OT - Bonzi is going to the KINGS - 3 way trade*



Rawse said:


> No one notorious, but he has coached Jason Williams, Jimmy Jackson, Jon Barry and Vernon Maxwell.


Jon Barry? How did he get a bad rep?


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: OT - Bonzi is going to the KINGS - 3 way trade*



SheedSoNasty said:


> Jon Barry? How did he get a bad rep?


Believe it or not, he's a bit like his dad. And a hothead.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

*Re: OT - Bonzi is going to the KINGS - 3 way trade*



Talkhard said:


> I see this tactic a lot on the board. When someone says something negative about a player that you like, and you can't fight back with facts, just call him a hater. This is often done by those who have nothing much to really say.


Is that kinda like earlier this afternoon when I pointed out that Nash has built a lot of losers and you asked if I was hanging out with Mixum?

Ed O.


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## Talkhard (May 13, 2003)

*Re: OT - Bonzi is going to the KINGS - 3 way trade*



> Is that kinda like earlier this afternoon when I pointed out that Nash has built a lot of losers and you asked if I was hanging out with Mixum?


That was a joke, Ed. Lighten up.


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## RedHot&Rolling (Jun 26, 2004)

*Re: OT - Bonzi is going to the KINGS - 3 way trade*

Nice that it's not Portland's problem anymore. Hopefully, Bonzi will stop becoming his NBA trainer - JR Rider. He's almost there.


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## Chalupa (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: OT - Bonzi is going to the KINGS - 3 way trade*

Wow, real surprising the Kings gave up on Snyder after only one year. Throw in Lopez and Chris Borchardt too for a player they let walk away a year ago doesn't make much sense. Financial none of those players were really making all that much so it's likely just to get them off the team to clear roster space.

Looks that pre-draft rumors of Kirk Snyder going to the Blazers could have happened if the Blazers were interested in him.


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## Talkhard (May 13, 2003)

*Jerry West's rep for "genius" takes a beating on this one*

Here's what NBA legend and trade meister Jerry West said when he traded for Bonzi Wells:



> “We’re very excited about the opportunity to acquire a player of the caliber of Bonzi Wells. He is a very talented player who is young, and already has quite a bit of experience of being successful in this league. We’re very optimistic Bonzi will provide a significant presence in our lineup.”


And here's what Grizzlies Coach Hubie Brown said:



> Bonzi Wells is mine now.


And here's what average fan C.S. Wilson said at Buzzle.com:



> It was surprising that Nash was able to finagle Person AND the first-round pick away from Grizzlies general manager Jerry West. Poor, misguided Jerry West. If only he knew what he was getting himself into.


Looks like ordinary fan C.S. Wilson was smarter than Jerry West or Hubie Brown put together. So much for the "great baskeball minds" in the NBA.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

*Re: Jerry West's rep for "genius" takes a beating on this one*



Talkhard said:


> Looks like ordinary fan C.S. Wilson was smarter than Jerry West or Hubie Brown put together. So much for the "great baskeball minds" in the NBA.


Yeah, the playoffs sucked. I bet they wish they had Person back so they could have two more lottery picks on their current roster.

Ed O.


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## Talkhard (May 13, 2003)

*Re: OT - Bonzi is going to the KINGS - 3 way trade*



> Yeah, the playoffs sucked.


The point is not the playoffs. The point is that they made a mistake on Bonzi Wells. In fact, Wells was clearly a detriment to the team, which is why they banned him from the building one night. 

Jerry West has, in so many words, admitted that he was wrong on Wells. He was so desperate to get rid of him that he was willing to let him walk if he had to.


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## The Professional Fan (Nov 5, 2003)

*Re: OT - Bonzi is going to the KINGS - 3 way trade*

I feel bad for Adelman.

Sure, Bonzi will have another honeymoon period, but his stint with Sac will end the same way it did with Portland and Memphis. His talent will not be worth the trouble he causes. 

Guaranteed.


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## HOWIE (Dec 30, 2002)

*Re: OT - Bonzi is going to the KINGS - 3 way trade*



cimalee said:


> Kings got a steal . Bonzi will fit with the kings nicely


Stop it cimalee, your killing me!!!!! :laugh:


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

*Re: OT - Bonzi is going to the KINGS - 3 way trade*



Talkhard said:


> The point is not the playoffs. The point is that they made a mistake on Bonzi Wells. In fact, Wells was clearly a detriment to the team, which is why they banned him from the building one night.
> 
> Jerry West has, in so many words, admitted that he was wrong on Wells. He was so desperate to get rid of him that he was willing to let him walk if he had to.


It wasn't a mistake. They would not have won 50 games without Bonzi Wells the first year he was there and (IMO) would not have made the playoffs twice without him.

I agree that the Grizzlies weren't willing to pay Bonzi $8m next year, but I don't agree that it follows that the trade was a mistake.

The Grizzlies have four other pretty good options at the swing positions: Mike Miller, Shane Battier, James Posey, and Dahnte Jones. Bonzi would make 5, and there's simply no reason to pay him that much money when they've got so many other options.

Ed O.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

*Re: Jerry West's rep for "genius" takes a beating on this one*



Ed O said:


> Yeah, the playoffs sucked. I bet they wish they had Person back so they could have two more lottery picks on their current roster.
> 
> Ed O.


which would you rather have..a team that plays like crap during the season, and makes the playoffs, only to lose in the 1st round..or a team that try to build to actually make it out of the first round, but isn't in it for 2-3 years?

I'd rather have a team that makes the playoffs and *advances* vs one that would barely make the playoffs and loses in the first round 10 out of 12 years.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

*Re: Jerry West's rep for "genius" takes a beating on this one*



Hap said:


> which would you rather have..a team that plays like crap during the season, and makes the playoffs, only to lose in the 1st round..or a team that try to build to actually make it out of the first round, but isn't in it for 2-3 years?


That's a mismatched set of choices. One option you're offering me is a negative, backwards-looking one, and the other is an uncertain more positive future-looking one. It's like asking whether you'd rather buy a lottery ticket that only won $10 or an unscratched ticket that could win you $10,000.

I want a team that has a mix of veterans and youth and makes the playoffs every year. I want the team to, if things click, advance past the first round occasionally.

I don't want a team that goes into the lottery and crosses their fingers that they'll be out someday.

Ed O.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

*Re: Jerry West's rep for "genius" takes a beating on this one*



Ed O said:


> That's a mismatched set of choices. One option you're offering me is a negative, backwards-looking one, and the other is an uncertain more positive future-looking one. It's like asking whether you'd rather buy a lottery ticket that only won $10 or an unscratched ticket that could win you $10,000.
> 
> I want a team that has a mix of veterans and youth and makes the playoffs every year. I want the team to, if things click, advance past the first round occasionally.


but the team we had *wasn't* doing that. Face it, this team's window of competitiveness had closed. 

they just decided against putting band-aids on a gaping ax wound, and went to the doctors.

some people just like putting band-aids on instead of getting it fixed.



> I don't want a team that goes into the lottery and crosses their fingers that they'll be out someday.
> 
> Ed O.


it's like being in an unhealthy relationship. when things look good, you can gloss over the crap. but in the end, it's still crap. 

at least now, we're starting a whole new relationship, but still having people complain that we're only getting to 2nd base, while they think we should be married with 3 kids after 4 weeks.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

*Re: Jerry West's rep for "genius" takes a beating on this one*



Hap said:


> but the team we had *wasn't* doing that. Face it, this team's window of competitiveness had closed.
> 
> they just decided against putting band-aids on a gaping ax wound, and went to the doctors.
> 
> some people just like putting band-aids on instead of getting it fixed.


I think that you're rationalizing failures by PatterNash to remain competitive.

Extending Theo had nothing to do with rebuilding, did it?

I was not entirely against rebuilding, although I think that the Blazers team that took Dallas to seven games had another good year or two in them.

But we were put through a year and a half of mish-mash... for what? So we can decide that halfway through the second season we're going to start rebuilding?

It's just remarkable to me that so many people said, "Give Nash a chance... he'll get good value for Rasheed/SAR/NVE" are now more confident than ever that he's on the right track... and the team has been getting consistently worse.

Ed O.


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## Talkhard (May 13, 2003)

*Re: OT - Bonzi is going to the KINGS - 3 way trade*



> It's just remarkable to me that so many people said, "Give Nash a chance... he'll get good value for Rasheed/SAR/NVE" are now more confident than ever that he's on the right track... and the team has been getting consistently worse.


And it's remarkable to me that you can't manage to see past the won-loss record and realize that the train is heading in the right direction.

Sometimes you have to get worse before you can get better.


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## BIG Q (Jul 8, 2005)

*Re: Jerry West's rep for "genius" takes a beating on this one*



Ed O said:


> It's just remarkable to me that so many people said, "Give Nash a chance... he'll get good value for Rasheed/SAR/NVE" are now more confident than ever that he's on the right track... and the team has been getting consistently worse.
> 
> Ed O.


Those people are the ones that also realize that these players have little value when a team decides to rebuild thru the draft. That is what is going on here. I am sure that management will provide the complimentary players when needed.


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## RoddneyThaRippa (Jun 28, 2003)

*Re: OT - Bonzi is going to the KINGS - 3 way trade*



Hap said:


> I'd bet, outside of Ed O's "character? not important" mentality, that most of us have had a little more to deal with bonzi than memphis fans have, so we know more about how he is.


Bottom line? Sacramento isn't what Portland was back then. It simply isn't the same kinda negative, cracker-jack organization Portland was back then. It's a whole new game and it'll be a whole new Bonzi.


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## RoddneyThaRippa (Jun 28, 2003)

*Re: OT - Bonzi is going to the KINGS - 3 way trade*



Talkhard said:


> I see this tactic a lot on the board. When someone says something negative about a player that you like, and you can't fight back with facts, just call him a hater. This is often done by those who have nothing much to really say.


I gave the facts already, in the previous post. If you don't care to read the whole thread, so be it. Otherwise, save yourself the embarrassment of talking out of your *** and don't respond to my posts. 

But I'm not getting into it with you again, cause I know how you are. I'll let you be.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

*Re: OT - Bonzi is going to the KINGS - 3 way trade*



RoddneyThaRippa said:


> Bottom line? Sacramento isn't what Portland was back then. It simply isn't the same kinda negative, cracker-jack organization Portland was back then. It's a whole new game and it'll be a whole new Bonzi.


so how do you explain how he was loved by the memphis franchise?

are they a "cracker jack organization"?


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

*Re: Jerry West's rep for "genius" takes a beating on this one*



Ed O said:


> I think that you're rationalizing failures by PatterNash to remain competitive.


and I think you're over estimating the "competitiveness" of the team pre-Nash and Patterson.

I'd rather start anew, than repeat the same mistakes we made in the past.



> Extending Theo had nothing to do with rebuilding, did it?


keeping 1 player does not invalidate rebuilding. 

Keeping and resigning Theo (to a bigger contract than necessary) isn't all the sudden going to change the fact the team is rebuilding. Getting rid of him isn't going to change that, nor is keeping him (and over paying him).



> I was not entirely against rebuilding, although I think that the Blazers team that took Dallas to seven games had another good year or two in them.


which is why they started off the next year so strong, eh? and it wasn't all because of Bonzi's blisters. That team was spent. Maybe if Pippen was 5 years younger, and DA had a shot, and Sabonis was 10 years younger.

But Pippen was old, DA has no shot and Sabonis left (again). 

And on top of that, we had a coach that couldn't coach a video game.



> But we were put through a year and a half of mish-mash... for what? So we can decide that halfway through the second season we're going to start rebuilding?


sometimes people decide to do something mid-stream because they realize that their goal is pointless.

Haven't you ever started something, only to realize halfway through you should junk it and start again? I know I have. 

Thats what the team did. They realized the team wasn't going anywhere, and certain members weren't coming back and weren't wanted back. So instead of letting a player go for nothing (which would've caused people to have hissy fits) they took what they could get. And until we find out what we get out of the draft pick and the TE, we can't say what we got out of the deal in the long run.

If that pick (in the long run) nets us our next "franchise player", I'll say that trading Sheed was worth it. 

Sometimes you gotta look at the bigger picture Ed.



> It's just remarkable to me that so many people said, "Give Nash a chance... he'll get good value for Rasheed/SAR/NVE" are now more confident than ever that he's on the right track... and the team has been getting consistently worse.


because maybe they see the big picture Ed. They have youth, a better coach, a reasonable salary structure (altho not perfect) and a firm foundation and plan to build on. Before with Trader Bob, it was just "put some bondo on that fender George, and I'll get the duct tape".


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## RoddneyThaRippa (Jun 28, 2003)

*Re: OT - Bonzi is going to the KINGS - 3 way trade*



Hap said:


> so how do you explain how he was loved by the memphis franchise?
> 
> are they a "cracker jack organization"?


Of course not, but they have some cracker jack characters, just like Portland did. 

Besides, Bonzi didn't get enough playing time there. Did he handle it right? Nope, he acted like a punk. But if there's a situation that will work for him, it's this one. Sacramento is a positive place to be now, with positive people. 

In Portland, he had to deal with a horrible organization and a horrible cast of characters. 

In Memphis, he had to deal with a bunch of jack-offs. 

Did he deal with either situation correctly? Nope. 

But will a change of environment and the right situation set him on the right path? I guarantee it. 

I just think it's wrong to hold everything he's done in the past against him, especially when he was with Portland. The organization at that time was a joke, so players going astray can be expected. Bonzi is a headcase nonetheless, but I think in the right situation, which this is, he can be put in check. Sacramento is no pre-Nash Portland, and I think you'd agree.


----------



## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

*Re: OT - Bonzi is going to the KINGS - 3 way trade*



RoddneyThaRippa said:


> Of course not, but they have some cracker jack characters, just like Portland did.
> 
> Besides, Bonzi didn't get enough playing time there. Did he handle it right? Nope, he acted like a punk. But if there's a situation that will work for him, it's this one. Sacramento is a positive place to be now, with positive people.
> 
> In Portland, he had to deal with a horrible organization and a horrible cast of characters.


first of all, to say that the organization was horrible is a bit of a stretch. The organization was (and is) top notch. The GM at the time, let the *players* get away with too much crap.

The Organization wasn't the problem. 


> In Memphis, he had to deal with a bunch of jack-offs.
> 
> Did he deal with either situation correctly? Nope.
> 
> But will a change of environment and the right situation set him on the right path? I guarantee it.


just like JR would be better off in LA. Afterall, this *WAS* the Lakers here. A winning tradition, and a no nonesense Shaq, and Kobe.

that was the perfect situation for him. Afterall, it was just Portland..and Minnesota...and Atlanta where he acted like a numbnut.

If he just got the perfect situation.



> I just think it's wrong to hold everything he's done in the past against him, especially when he was with Portland. The organization at that time was a joke, so players going astray can be expected.


I was unaware that Bonzi was a child. All this time I thought Bonzi was a grown man.



> Bonzi is a headcase nonetheless, but I think in the right situation, which this is, he can be put in check. Sacramento is no pre-Nash Portland, and I think you'd agree.


Yah, but Bonzi isn't exactly a saint period. Doesn't matter what situation he's in. He's a con man, who never takes the blame for anything. 

But believe what you want to believe about Bonzi. I mean, why would people who followed him for the 4+ years he played here know anything about how he "is" in the "right situation"..


----------



## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: OT - Bonzi is going to the KINGS - 3 way trade*



Talkhard said:


> The point is not the playoffs. The point is that they made a mistake on Bonzi Wells. In fact, Wells was clearly a detriment to the team, which is why they banned him from the building one night.
> 
> Jerry West has, in so many words, admitted that he was wrong on Wells. He was so desperate to get rid of him that he was willing to let him walk if he had to.


Yeah, what a shame that Bonzi fit right into the starting lineup with an ailing Mike Miller not being able to play. It's a real tragedy that without Bonzi, we wouldn't have won 50 games that year and made the postseason, something that got the entire city of Memphis in a buzz. You don't have any idea what a _Memphian_ professional sports team making the playoffs for the first time does for the city? A city with no other professional sports teams? I fail to believe that.

Bonzi was a detriment in the offseason and second season, when Mike Miller recuperated and rejoined the starting lineup (a rightful role) and Bonzi's playing time took a hit.

Bonzi caused problems, but without him, we wouldn't have had the highest moments in this franchise's history. I would not trade that for a couple months of Wesley Person and either one of Portland's scrub Russians. Please never post about the Memphis Grizzlies again, Talkhard. You are - without a doubt - clueless and just full of hot air (which sums up most of your posts, but those don't tick me off as much, since they rarely concern me).


----------



## Talkhard (May 13, 2003)

*Re: OT - Bonzi is going to the KINGS - 3 way trade*



> I just think it's wrong to hold everything he's done in the past against him, especially when he was with Portland. The organization at that time was a joke, so players going astray can be expected


That's right, blame all of Bonzi's shenanigans on the organization. They were the ones that made him spit on Danny Ferry, and curse Mo Cheeks out from the sidelines, and get into a fight at Golden State, and claim he suffered from "blackouts." It was also the organization's fault that Wells was a racist and a headcase. It was all the organization's fault! Yeah, that's the ticket!



> Bottom line? Sacramento isn't what Portland was back then. It simply isn't the same kinda negative, cracker-jack organization Portland was back then. It's a whole new game and it'll be a whole new Bonzi.


[strike]Ha. I'll let the rest of the board decide who is talking out their ****.[/strike]


----------



## Talkhard (May 13, 2003)

*Re: OT - Bonzi is going to the KINGS - 3 way trade*



> Bonzi caused problems, but without him, we wouldn't have had the highest moments in this franchise's history.


And the lowest! Don't forget that your coach actually banned Wells from coming anywhere near the building during the final game of the season. Now THAT was a moment to really be proud of!!


----------



## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: OT - Bonzi is going to the KINGS - 3 way trade*



Talkhard said:


> And the lowest! Don't forget that your coach actually banned Wells from coming anywhere near the building during the final game of the season. Now THAT was a moment to really be proud of!!


That situation doesn't take away from the highs. Whenever I think of my team, I will always remember going to see a playoff game in the Pyramid, and seeing Hubie Brown get awarded Coach of the Year, in front of screaming fans chanting his name. I've never been in a place so loud or cheered for a sports team any harder.

I'm glad I'm not like you, always dwelling on the negative things that happened while Wells was here. What kind of guy obsesses over a basketball player your favorite team traded _two seasons ago_?

That "kicked out of the building" thing was likely blown out-of-proportion by the Memphis media, who had long since turned on Wells. Sound familiar? Depending on what source you listen to, 1) Bonzi was barred from entering the building, but didn't want to anyway; 2) Fratello and Bonzi had a meeting and mutually decided it would be best for him not to be in the building.

I'm no apologist or fan of Bonzi Wells, but Bonzi hasn't told us which version is what actually happened. Fratello hasn't said a word about it. So no one knows the straight story there. Especially you.

Also, you don't think the Grizzlies franchise has had worse moments? Haha at you.

Trading the No. 2 overall draft pick for a finished Otis Thorpe? Having not just a losing season, but some of the worst records in the league, for eight or nine straight seasons? Never winning more than 28 games before, like, 2002? Lining Bryant Reeves and Michael Dickerson's pockets while they retire because of injury? Steve Francis refusing to play for Vancouver and embarrassing the franchise in the process?

Bonzi caused bad moments, but to place him at No. 1 on the totem poll shows a staggering lack of objectivity on your part.


----------



## cimalee (Apr 17, 2003)

*Re: OT - Bonzi is going to the KINGS - 3 way trade*

Utah gets the worst out of this trade . Ostertag I wonder how him and Sloan will get along this time .


----------



## Talkhard (May 13, 2003)

*Re: OT - Bonzi is going to the KINGS - 3 way trade*



> That "kicked out of the building" thing was likely blown out-of-proportion by the Memphis media, who had long since turned on Wells. Sound familiar?


Yes it does, and that should tell you something. When the media in two different towns turns on a player, maybe there's something wrong with the player. Ya think?




> Depending on what source you listen to, 1) Bonzi was barred from entering the building, but didn't want to anyway; 2) Fratello and Bonzi had a meeting and mutually decided it would be best for him not to be in the building.


[strike]Ha! So that explains it all. I feel so much better now. Boy, you are one impressive debater. You clearly won that point.[/strike]



> What kind of bitter old guy obsesses over a basketball player your favorite team traded two seasons ago? See a doctor.


What kind of a poster starts slinging names at a person he doesn't even know?


----------



## cimalee (Apr 17, 2003)

*Re: OT - Bonzi is going to the KINGS - 3 way trade*



HOWIE said:


> Stop it cimalee, your killing me!!!!! :laugh:



Im not playing Bonzi is a good talent he is a nutcase but in Sac Town he should be fine .

I remember Bonzi playing his best games against the Kings


----------



## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: OT - Bonzi is going to the KINGS - 3 way trade*



Talkhard said:


> Yes it does, and that should tell you something. When the media in two different towns turns on a player, maybe there's something wrong with the player. Ya think?


I've already admitted that Bonzi was a problem in his second season, and I haven't argued otherwise. What's your point here?

This doesn't take away that without him, Memphis wouldn't have had their greatest moment in its pro sports history. I am grateful to everyone who made that possible. Bonzi included.

That doesn't mean I am not also disappointed in the other roles Bonzi took on the team, along with Jason Williams, Stromile Swift and James Posey. But the bad things Bonzi did for the franchise don't take away from the good things, just as the good things do not take away from the bad things. 

However, come August 1st, Bonzi is not with the team anymore, making him a memory, and like I said, I tend to dwell on the good things, rather than the bad. I wish him well in the future, as well as the Kings, and am happy I won't be making new threads about him in 2009 whenever there's a news clipping about him.



> Ha! So that explains it all. I feel so much better now. Boy, you are one impressive debater. You clearly won that point.


Want to take a poll to see who's winning?



> What kind of a poster starts slinging names at a person he doesn't even know?


Call 'em like I see 'em. Isn't that what you do with Wells?


----------



## Talkhard (May 13, 2003)

*Re: OT - Bonzi is going to the KINGS - 3 way trade*



> Call 'em like I see 'em. Isn't that what you do with Wells?


You're clearly not familiar with the rules of the board. Disparaging players, coaches, managers, owners, etc., is allowed. Disparaging other posters is not allowed.


----------



## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: OT - Bonzi is going to the KINGS - 3 way trade*



Talkhard said:


> You're clearly not familiar with the rules of the board. Disparaging players, coaches, managers, owners, etc., is allowed. Disparaging other posters is not allowed.


Please stay on topic.

Or, if you're so worried about the vicious personal attack, you can admit you are wrong and we can close the thread.

I mean, you're speaking for the Grizzlies fans in saying the Bonzi trade was a mistake. The biggest Grizzlies fan on the board is in here telling you that it wasn't a mistake and is backing up his argument so well, that you're reduced to diverting the topic like you're doing right now. That's pretty clear cut to me.

Nice talkin' to ya. I hope you get some perspective in the near future.


----------



## RoddneyThaRippa (Jun 28, 2003)

*Re: OT - Bonzi is going to the KINGS - 3 way trade*



> first of all, to say that the organization was horrible is a bit of a stretch. The organization was (and is) top notch. The GM at the time, let the *players* get away with too much crap.


I think that's a matter of opinion. When everything imploded, there were a lot of problems that I think could've been avoided. It's easy to blame the GM, and a lot of blame should go there, but you've gotta look at the organization as a whole. I think things got way outta hand. Obviously, things are a helluva lot better now. 



> just like JR would be better off in LA. Afterall, this *WAS* the Lakers here. A winning tradition, and a no nonesense Shaq, and Kobe.
> 
> that was the perfect situation for him. Afterall, it was just Portland..and Minnesota...and Atlanta where he acted like a numbnut.
> 
> If he just got the perfect situation.


Sorry, Bonzi is no JR. 



> I was unaware that Bonzi was a child. All this time I thought Bonzi was a grown man.


He is a grown man, but grown man or not, the Blazers were in absolute disarray. Bonzi isn't the only player that would've gone sour in that situation, and you know it. 



> Yah, but Bonzi isn't exactly a saint period. Doesn't matter what situation he's in. He's a con man, who never takes the blame for anything.


He may be a con man, but that doesn't change the fact that he was in a horrible situation in Portland, and a somewhat bad one in Memphis. I'm not making excuses for him but environment does count for something. 



> But believe what you want to believe about Bonzi. I mean, why would people who followed him for the 4+ years he played here know anything about how he "is" in the "right situation"..


You followed Bonzi for four years, but did you pay attention to the organizatino during that time, especially at the end of Bonzi's stay? It was a ****hole. Sacramento isn't, and I expect Bonzi to turn things around. Bonzi may be a headcase, but at least he doesn't have to contend with all this drama in Sacramento. This time, it's on Bonzi, period.


----------



## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

*Re: OT - Bonzi is going to the KINGS - 3 way trade*



RoddneyThaRippa said:


> Sorry, Bonzi is no JR.


it's not about comparing the players abilities. It's about someone getting more than one chance, and screwing up.


> He is a grown man, but grown man or not, the Blazers were in absolute disarray. Bonzi isn't the only player that would've gone sour in that situation, and you know it.


which explains why he went sour in another city...all the way across the country. 

fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Fool me a 3rd time, and well, you're a con man.



> He may be a con man, but that doesn't change the fact that he was in a horrible situation in Portland, and a somewhat bad one in Memphis. I'm not making excuses for him but environment does count for something.


if he was a saint before he came to Portland (he wasn't) I could understand this. but it's not like he change once he came to Portland. 



> You followed Bonzi for four years, but did you pay attention to the organizatino during that time, especially at the end of Bonzi's stay? It was a ****hole. Sacramento isn't, and I expect Bonzi to turn things around. Bonzi may be a headcase, but at least he doesn't have to contend with all this drama in Sacramento. This time, it's on Bonzi, period.


if you want to believe that Sacramento is a place thats always drama free (hello, chris webber) than so be it. 

But Bonzi is what Bonzi is.

you can put a tuxedo on a pig, and it's still a pig.


----------



## RedHot&Rolling (Jun 26, 2004)

*Re: Jerry West's rep for "genius" takes a beating on this one*



Ed O said:


> I think that you're rationalizing failures by PatterNash to remain competitive.
> 
> Extending Theo had nothing to do with rebuilding, did it?
> 
> ...


Giving credit where due.....I am one of those you described above.

On this point you are absolutely correct!!

The extensions were, in hind-sight, a mistake. But, at the time we didn't know about Przybilla overtaking Ratliff on the depth chart and same for Outlaw /Miles.

SAR/NVE/Damon's value-drop still amazes me. I never thought there wouldn't be ONE team looking to drop salary and acquire one/all of them for value players.

But, now that we are on this road (rebuilding) there is no looking back. It does no good.


----------



## RoddneyThaRippa (Jun 28, 2003)

*Re: OT - Bonzi is going to the KINGS - 3 way trade*



> it's not about comparing the players abilities. It's about someone getting more than one chance, and screwing up.


I wasn't talking about abilities. I was talking about attitude. If Bonzi is a headcase, JR was a body case. 



> which explains why he went sour in another city...all the way across the country.
> 
> fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Fool me a 3rd time, and well, you're a con man.


Hey, he's no saint. That said, the Memphis wasn't a great situation for him either. Should he have sucked it up? Of course, but that's not Bonzi and we all know that. This time, it's the right situation. Should Bonzi have to have every little thing his way to cooperate? No, but I don't think he's the entire problem. This situation will work for him. 



> if he was a saint before he came to Portland (he wasn't) I could understand this. but it's not like he change once he came to Portland.


That doesn't excuse the situation Portland was in. There were more players than Bonzi that went sour (how has Rasheed been since he went to Detroit?) and there were organizational problems. You can't expect players to hold up under everything. The situation sucked, and it made a guy with a bad attitude volatile. 



> if you want to believe that Sacramento is a place thats always drama free (hello, chris webber) than so be it.


I never said Sacramento was always drama free but they pretty much are now. Webber's outta there and they are heading in a whole new direction, much like the Trailblazers. 



> But Bonzi is what Bonzi is.
> 
> you can put a tuxedo on a pig, and it's still a pig.


Well, we'll see next season. I still think Bonzi will straighten his act out. If not, he's conned me too.


----------



## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

*Re: Jerry West's rep for "genius" takes a beating on this one*



RedHot&Rolling said:


> But, now that we are on this road (rebuilding) there is no looking back. It does no good.


I can appreciate this perspective... but don't you have doubts that Nash is going to be more successful rebuilding the team than he was in keeping it competitive?

Ed O.


----------



## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

*Re: Jerry West's rep for "genius" takes a beating on this one*



Ed O said:


> I can appreciate this perspective... but don't you have doubts that Nash is going to be more successful rebuilding the team than he was in keeping it competitive?
> 
> Ed O.


considering they weren't really that competitive, and he was TOLD not to take on obscene salaries (Jalen Rose WITH Vince Carter) and not give up on certain components of the team, I don't see how you can really say that he was allowed to keep the team competitive in the same manner that Trader Bob was.

If Paul gave Nash carte blanche, I'm sure we'd have Jalen Rose and Vince Carter and others, and not near as much youth to speak of.


----------



## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

*Re: OT - Bonzi is going to the KINGS - 3 way trade*



RoddneyThaRippa said:


> I wasn't talking about abilities. I was talking about attitude. If Bonzi is a headcase, JR was a body case.


again, it's not about comparing the two. JR is like Bonzi. Both are leopards who can't change their spots.


> Hey, he's no saint. That said, the Memphis wasn't a great situation for him either. Should he have sucked it up? Of course, but that's not Bonzi and we all know that. This time, it's the right situation.


the "right" situation for Bonzi is the #1 or #2 option. 



> Should Bonzi have to have every little thing his way to cooperate? No, but I don't think he's the entire problem. This situation will work for him.


if thats what you want to believe.



> That doesn't excuse the situation Portland was in. There were more players than Bonzi that went sour (how has Rasheed been since he went to Detroit?)


actually, he's been the exact same player and person. The NBA just made him into a media darling.



> I never said Sacramento was always drama free but they pretty much are now. Webber's outta there and they are heading in a whole new direction, much like the Trailblazers.


Bonzi is past the point of changing, outside of being a decent role player. 



> Well, we'll see next season. I still think Bonzi will straighten his act out. If not, he's conned me too.


he's a con man, thats what he does.

is he talented? you bet.

is he a good outside shooter? Nope (which is what the Kings need).

he's a punk (just ask anyone who's had to deal with him in the Blazers organization or the Grizz organization..read: not fans)


----------



## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

*Re: OT - Bonzi is going to the KINGS - 3 way trade*



Hap said:


> the "right" situation for Bonzi is the #1 or #2 option.


thats according to you. IMO what RtR is speaking to is that Bonzi won't be splitting minutes with other quality wings in Sac and he won't be dealing with Portland's media problem egging on the aspiring Robin Fickers of the fanbase. 

IMO he's not what he was prior to the knee injury, but he's still a pretty good starting SG. With a decent role on an above average team, I wouldn't be surprised if he has a good year and adds quite a bit to the Kings season.



> is he a good outside shooter? Nope (which is what the Kings need).


this is some poor deduction IMO. Bibby can shoot the lights out from deep, Peja isn't too bad from the outside either, & Brad Miller is one of the top high post players in the league largely because of his ability to knock down J's from the key area. The Kings lack guys with Bonzi's slash and post up game, which is largely why I think he's a good fit there... that and I doubt there is much to some folks impression he's such a terrible guy. I think he's probably a self centered jerk like most of the rest of the guys in the league, and just wants a chance to play. 

Here's betting that Petrie knows who he's getting 10x better then any of us mere Blazer fans.

STOMP


----------



## angrypuppy (Jul 5, 2005)

*Re: OT - Bonzi is going to the KINGS - 3 way trade*



RoddneyThaRippa said:


> Bottom line? Sacramento isn't what Portland was back then. It simply isn't the same kinda negative, cracker-jack organization Portland was back then. It's a whole new game and it'll be a whole new Bonzi.



Portland might have been cracker-jack, but Bonzi will soon remind you that Sacramento is just plain cracker.


----------



## ABM (Dec 30, 2002)

*To: Ed O. With Love...*

Sorry, man. Couldn't resist. 

A pretty decent Bonzi-related read from Canzano, though.

From: The Big O


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## crandc (Sep 15, 2004)

*Re: To: Ed O. With Love...*

For once Crapanzo is right. With Wallace it was always what you see is what you get. But Wells over and over said he was going to change. Remember? Talking about being embarrassed in front of his family. Needing to set a better example for his own two children. Promises, promises, promises. To everyone. I think the reason I have such bad feelings about him (unlike Sheed) is that I was personally the recipient of one of the infamous Wells promises. I didn't ask for one, he volunteered and I was suckered like everyone else. I thought he was sincere. I thought he meant it when he expressed regret over the fight at Golden State that resulted in a suspension just when he was playing so well. I thought he meant it when he said he didn't want to ever again do anything that would take him away from his team.

He didn't.


----------



## B_&_B (Feb 19, 2004)

*Re: To: Ed O. With Love...*

Amazing, something actually worth reading from Crapzano.


----------



## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

*Re: To: Ed O. With Love...*

I love how predictable some people are.

They HATE Canzano. They think that he's totally clueless. But then if he writes something that they happen to AGREE WITH, then suddenly he knows what he's talking about.

It's ridiculous.

Canzano's position in his column is almost as ridiculous. He admits that the Grizzlies received more in trade than the Blazers did. He can't deny that the Grizzlies are better than they were before they made the deal with Portland. He also can't deny that the Blazers are worse than they were before they made the deal with Memphis.

And yet he calls it a good trade.

It's these kinds of "good trades" that undercut a team's talent base. That drive teams to, and keep teams in, the lottery. That eventually get GMs fired. 

The Kings will be better with Bonzi Wells than they were without him. The Grizzlies will probably be worse without him.

The Blazers will be, once again, one of the worst teams in the NBA. But the Oregonian and some Blazers fans will keep patting themselves on the back over getting rid of him, in spite of the team's plight.

Bonzi? He probably rarely thinks about Portland because the Blazers simply aren't relevant in the NBA right now.

Ed O.


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## e_blazer1 (Feb 3, 2004)

*Re: To: Ed O. With Love...*

Bonzi is like that puppy you get that keeps pooping on the carpet. You tolerate it in a puppy and try to train him to stop doing it by rubbing his nose in it. If the dog won't change his ways and is still pooping on the carpet when he's full grown, you move him to someplace where he no longer fouls your living environment.


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## The Professional Fan (Nov 5, 2003)

*Re: To: Ed O. With Love...*



Ed O said:


> I love how predictable some people are.
> 
> They HATE Canzano. They think that he's totally clueless. But then if he writes something that they happen to AGREE WITH, then suddenly he knows what he's talking about.
> 
> ...



Ed and Bonzi sittin' in a tree.......


----------



## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

*Re: To: Ed O. With Love...*



e_blazer1 said:


> Bonzi is like that puppy you get that keeps pooping on the carpet. You tolerate it in a puppy and try to train him to stop doing it by rubbing his nose in it. If the dog won't change his ways and is still pooping on the carpet when he's full grown, you move him to someplace where he no longer fouls your living environment.


I think that you're close. I think that he's like a guard dog that keeps pooping on the carpet. After you get him, your house is robbed less often, but your carpet stinks. 

Understandably, some people don't like stinky carpet, so they give him away to another owner that is tired of seeing his house robbed so often. He claims that he will stop pooping, and the new owner claims that he will stop pooping. The previous owner knows better.

So what happens? Bonzi goes to the new team and he keeps pooping. So eventually his new owner gives him away to ANOTHER owner who wants his house more secure and thinks he can change him.

In the mean time, though, the first owner's house is getting ripped off more often... and the kitty litter smell is suddenly more prominent without Bonzi's messes.

The second owner? House is more secure with Bonzi.

It, like so many things in life, comes down to smelly carpets versus unsecure homes. 

Ed O.


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## e_blazer1 (Feb 3, 2004)

*Re: To: Ed O. With Love...*



Ed O said:


> I think that you're close. I think that he's like a guard dog that keeps pooping on the carpet. After you get him, your house is robbed less often, but your carpet stinks.
> 
> Understandably, some people don't like stinky carpet, so they give him away to another owner that is tired of seeing his house robbed so often. He claims that he will stop pooping, and the new owner claims that he will stop pooping. The previous owner knows better.
> 
> ...


LOL!

I'll accept your amendment to my original concept.


----------



## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

*Re: To: Ed O. With Love...*

Just the fact that Memphis, though admittedly improved, wasn't going to keep him around is Validation IMO that Nash getting rid of him wasn't a huge disaster.

IN return they got a bunch of cast offs, well in the csae of Bobby Jackson you hope his cast is off, but really got little talent in return. SNyder is about the only attractive piece.


----------



## gambitnut (Jan 4, 2003)

*Re: To: Ed O. With Love...*



Ed O said:


> I think that you're close. I think that he's like a guard dog that keeps pooping on the carpet. After you get him, your house is robbed less often, but your carpet stinks.
> 
> Understandably, some people don't like stinky carpet, so they give him away to another owner that is tired of seeing his house robbed so often. He claims that he will stop pooping, and the new owner claims that he will stop pooping. The previous owner knows better.
> 
> ...


No, forget about pooping on the carpet, he's more like a really fierce guard dog who bites everything, including the hand that feeds him.


----------



## Oldmangrouch (Feb 11, 2003)

*Re: To: Ed O. With Love...*



Ed O said:


> I think that you're close. I think that he's like a guard dog that keeps pooping on the carpet. After you get him, your house is robbed less often, but your carpet stinks.
> 
> Understandably, some people don't like stinky carpet, so they give him away to another owner that is tired of seeing his house robbed so often. He claims that he will stop pooping, and the new owner claims that he will stop pooping. The previous owner knows better.
> 
> ...



:rotf: 

I think Ed officially wins the "Analogy of the Month" award. :clap:


----------



## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

*Re: To: Ed O. With Love...*



Oldmangrouch said:


> :rotf:
> 
> I think Ed officially wins the "Analogy of the Month" award. :clap:


Would it be safe to say it was "Spot on"?


----------



## e_blazer1 (Feb 3, 2004)

*Re: To: Ed O. With Love...*

One thing I did note is that Bonzi agrees with the general sentiment around here that Canzano is a "punk expletive expletive".

Say what you like about Bonz, but he's a good judge of character.


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## BBert (Dec 30, 2004)

*Re: To: Ed O. With Love...*



gambitnut said:


> No, forget about pooping on the carpet, he's more like a really fierce guard dog who bites everything, including the hand that feeds him.


I'm thinking more like a cockapoo that bites the hand that feeds it.


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## BealzeeBob (Jan 6, 2003)

*Re: To: Ed O. With Love...*



Ed O said:


> I think that you're close. I think that he's like a guard dog that keeps pooping on the carpet.
> 
> In the mean time, though, the first owner's house is getting ripped off more often... and the kitty litter smell is suddenly more prominent without Bonzi's messes.
> 
> Ed O.


Pretty funny Ed O. However, you missed that the first owner went out and got another guard dog, Monia, who will help with security.

Go Blazers


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## FeloniusThunk (Jan 1, 2003)

*Re: To: Ed O. With Love...*



e_blazer1 said:


> One thing I did note is that Bonzi agrees with the general sentiment around here that Canzano is a "punk expletive expletive".
> 
> Say what you like about Bonz, but he's a good judge of character.


Yeah, I liked that. Canzano seemed to think it was somehow a mark _against_ Bonzi. He doesn't seem to get just how unliked (and probably unlikeable) he is for the players. Doubtless, it's becuase of their character flaws rather than his, though. Just like all those cheerleaders who wouldn't date me in high school. Something was clearly wrong with them, because they were missing out on this love train, baby, yeah (insert disco medallion smiley).



Ed said:


> It, like so many things in life, comes down to smelly carpets versus unsecure homes.


Some people just want to have their carpet and smell it, too.


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## crandc (Sep 15, 2004)

*Re: To: Ed O. With Love...*



> They HATE Canzano. They think that he's totally clueless. But then if he writes something that they happen to AGREE WITH, then suddenly he knows what he's talking about.


Not sure if I am part of this anonymous "they" but I did say that FOR ONCE Crapanzo got it right.
Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

Bonzi Wells did not make Memphis better. If anything he hurt them. Sacramento is taking a biiiiiiig leap of faith. 

Actually, I think we sleep better because we don't have to hear that damn dog barking all night, even when no intruder is within a mile.


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## Blazer Ringbearer (Jan 28, 2003)

*Re: To: Ed O. With Love...*



Ed O said:


> I think that you're close. I think that he's like a guard dog that keeps pooping on the carpet. After you get him, your house is robbed less often, but your carpet stinks.
> 
> Understandably, some people don't like stinky carpet, so they give him away to another owner that is tired of seeing his house robbed so often. He claims that he will stop pooping, and the new owner claims that he will stop pooping. The previous owner knows better.
> 
> ...


After the first owner got rid of the dog, did the robbers come and steal the smelly carpet?

Because that might be "addition by subtraction"... 

Or at the very least "subtraction of elimination".


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

*Re: To: Ed O. With Love...*



Blazer Ringbearer said:


> After the first owner got rid of the dog, did the robbers come and steal the smelly carpet?
> 
> Because that might be "addition by subtraction"...
> 
> Or at the very least "subtraction of elimination".


or at least the dog stops humping your leg when you're trying to watch a movie with your lady friend

btw, I feel compelled to do post this.



> To Ed O, With Love
> 
> Those schoolboy days
> Of telling tales and biting nails are gone
> ...


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## RedHot&Rolling (Jun 26, 2004)

*Re: To: Ed O. With Love...*

Bonzi is leaving his MARK everywhere he goes............unfortunately its always on the carpet!


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

*Re: To: Ed O. With Love...*



crandc said:


> Bonzi Wells did not make Memphis better. If anything he hurt them.


That's just plain silly.

2002-03: 28-54
2003-04: 9-8 (pre-Bonzi)
2003-04: 41-24 (with Bonzi)
2004-05: 45-37

Where is there ANY evidence that they were worse with Bonzi?

Ed O.


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## crandc (Sep 15, 2004)

Ed, the 41-24 extrapolated over a full year would equal 52 wins. But instead they got 45. Where are the other 7?

Bonzi starts well but does not keep it up. He was good for them at first, but clearly was not by his second year. He was trying to prove something his first year at Memphis but then the real Bonzi emerged. Again. When a player who is healthy is told to stay away during the playoffs, he is not helping his team. Memphis fell during the final weeks of the season and many say it was due to chemistry problems with Bonzi Wells at the center of them.

I have sympathy for the Kings fans. Their team sucked for years and they kept coming to games. Then they were good but not quite good enough and had to endure ridicule by the Lakers and their bandwagon jumpers. Now their window is closed and they get Bonzi Wells.


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

*Re: To: Ed O. With Love...*



Ed O said:


> That's just plain silly.
> 
> 2002-03: 28-54
> 2003-04: 9-8 (pre-Bonzi)
> ...


Where is the evidence that he is the one who made tehm better?

You make it sound like he is the one who turned that team around. I think it could be argued that the play of others, ( Miller, Battier, Gasol) finally gelled and that's where the improvement came from.

Lets take a look at 82games.com
net ratings
Battier +11.1
Miller +5.8
Gasol +2.8
Wells -6.3


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

*Re: To: Ed O. With Love...*



Schilly said:


> Where is the evidence that he is the one who made tehm better?


You mean other than that evidence that I just gave that he was the one who made them better?

They were barely over .500 before acquiring Wells and then they went on to win at .628 over the next season and 3/4.

Ed O.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

crandc said:


> Ed, the 41-24 extrapolated over a full year would equal 52 wins. But instead they got 45. Where are the other 7?


Just because they weren't quite as good with Wells the second year, it follows that they were WORSE because they had him?

Ed O.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

*Re: To: Ed O. With Love...*



Ed O said:


> You mean other than that evidence that I just gave that he was the one who made them better?
> 
> They were barely over .500 before acquiring Wells and then they went on to win at .628 over the next season and 3/4.
> 
> Ed O.


You apply an interesting (albeit flawed) theory there ed. So, applying this theory to the 2003-2004 Trail Blazers...In the 2003-2004 season, with Rasheed, the blazers were sub .500..

without Rasheed in the 2003-2004 season, the team was above .500

therefore, the team was better without Rasheed.


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

*Re: To: Ed O. With Love...*



Ed O said:


> You mean other than that evidence that I just gave that he was the one who made them better?
> 
> They were barely over .500 before acquiring Wells and then they went on to win at .628 over the next season and 3/4.
> 
> Ed O.


Ed that's ridiculous, teams will do that type of thing start so so then play well, start well play bad, etc etc.... Withou making any changes at all. 

8-9 before him...big woop, when was 17 games to start a season anykind of sampling of what a team is capable of for the duration

I seem to remember Portland starting a season 24 and 2 or there abouts, but they didn't finish at 75 wins and 7 losses.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

*Re: To: Ed O. With Love...*



Hap said:


> You apply an interesting (albeit flawed) theory there ed. So, applying this theory to the 2003-2004 Trail Blazers...In the 2003-2004 season, with Rasheed, the blazers were sub .500..
> 
> without Rasheed in the 2003-2004 season, the team was above .500
> 
> therefore, the team was better without Rasheed.


Your parallel fails in at least two respects:

1. Portland was 24-25 before trading Rasheed and 17-16 without. The difference in winning rates (.490 to .515) just isn't very significant. Compare that to pre- and post-Wells for the Grizzlies in the same year (.529 to .631) and it's a much different situation.

2. Bonzi was the ONLY significant change in the two samples that I use. For Portland, at least two significant trades (Bonzi for nobody and McInnis for Miles) were made that altered the team in one of your two samples.

Ed O.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

*Re: To: Ed O. With Love...*



Ed O said:


> Your parallel fails in at least two respects:
> 
> 1. Portland was 24-25 before trading Rasheed and 17-16 without. The difference in winning rates (.490 to .515) just isn't very significant. Compare that to pre- and post-Wells for the Grizzlies in the same year (.529 to .631) and it's a much different situation.


whether or not it was improved as much, the team WAS improved.

better IS better. (and actually, the team improved after Bonzi left too).



> 2. Bonzi was the ONLY significant change in the two samples that I use. For Portland, at least two significant trades (Bonzi for nobody and McInnis for Miles) were made that altered the team in one of your two samples.
> 
> Ed O.


well, the grizzlies did have a new coach (and a better one)..that might have had _something_ to do with it.

If Bonzi was the sole reason, than the team should suck bean dip this year.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

*Re: To: Ed O. With Love...*



Hap said:


> well, the grizzlies did have a new coach (and a better one)..that might have had _something_ to do with it.


He did a good job coaching, no doubt, but he wasn't new. Hubie Brown went 28-46 as coach of the team in 02-03 in addition to the 9-8 pre-Bonzi 03-04 start.



> If Bonzi was the sole reason, than the team should suck bean dip this year.


They won't be very good IMO. I'm not saying that Bonzi was the SOLE reason, but he was *a* reason, and when people argue that they weren't better because of him--or that they were worse BECAUSE of him--it's just so clearly wrong I must pipe up.

Does anyone want to argue that the Blazers have been better without Bonzi?

Ed O.


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## Blazer Ringbearer (Jan 28, 2003)

*Re: To: Ed O. With Love...*



Ed O said:


> 2. Bonzi was the ONLY significant change in the two samples that I use.


Never underestimate the Wesley Person effect... dude was a cancer poisoning the team. No wonder the Blazers went south!


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

crandc said:


> Ed, the 41-24 extrapolated over a full year would equal 52 wins. But instead they got 45. Where are the other 7?


Obviously life doesn't exist in a vacuum, and a basketball team's roster tends to change pretty often. The two best players on the 2003-4 Griz were Gasol and Posey (Wells was #3 IMO) who played 78 and 82 games respectively. In 2004-5 they both missed about 1/3rd of the season. Do you really need to ask _where are the other 7?_

http://www.nba.com/grizzlies/stats/2003/index.html

http://www.nba.com/grizzlies/stats/2004/index.html

Geez I understand how easy it is to overlook that your TV looks like a wall and your couch feels like the floor when your smelly ol' carpet is no longer around, but I'd imagine that a stripped box of a house eventually gets old too. I see some promise in the youngins, but I see it as years away. While (IMO) Bonzi is not what he used to be athletically before the knee injury, he's still a pretty tough 2G especially on a team with a lot of other outside shooters (like the Kings). As a hoops fan I'm happy for him getting himself into a good situation for his talents... I recall a couple of epic games/duals with him and Christy... anyways whatever... I don't relish pigpiling on Blazers past, I'm more into rooting on our current team. Hopefully something good will come out of ya'll booing your hearts out when he comes to town... though I doubt that will effect the outcome of the games.

STOMP


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## Scout226 (Sep 17, 2003)

*Re: To: Ed O. With Love...*



Ed O said:


> They won't be very good IMO. I'm not saying that Bonzi was the SOLE reason, but he was *a* reason, and when people argue that they weren't better because of him--or that they were worse BECAUSE of him--it's just so clearly wrong I must pipe up.
> 
> Does anyone want to argue that the Blazers have been better without Bonzi?
> 
> Ed O.


While Bonzi may be one of a few reasons the Griz were better, maybe the addition of Posey was another reason as well?

It's tough to compare the Griz Bonzi with the Blazer Bonzi. To go along with the previous analogy. The Blazer Bonzi crapped and urinated all over our carpet and could care less about intrudors. While the Griz Bonzi just urinated on their carpets and started to keep away the intrudors once in a while.


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