# I like this trade



## Hov (Aug 12, 2003)

-We get Brian Grant who's capable of putting up a double-double in any given game.. He's undersized and overpaid, but he's decent.

-We get Lamar Odom who would complement Kobe VERY well. Unselfish, 6'11", could play 4 positions, handle the ball, great playmaker. I always loved his game and he was my favorite Clipper. Maybe we could have a backcourt of Kobe and Odom at times during a game. :yes: 

-Hopefully we get Caron. He didn't have a great season but in his rookie year he showed lots of promise. Good potential.

Fact is, when trading Shaq, we'll never get equal value because no one is willing to trade their franchise/superstar kind of player to get an aging Shaq who's just plain lazy.
Now I know we won't win the championship with this lineup, but it's a GREAT start for our rebuilding process. However, this trade leaves a BIG gap in the middle. Maybe we could get Dampier or Clark for the MLE? But with the way everyone's getting overpaid, Dampier would probably get the max elsewhere.

What are your guys' thoughts?


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

If we get Caron Butler, yes it is a very good trade and a nice job done by Mitch Kupchak. However, if we don't...I don't think we have enough to re-sign Kobe. 

Although, the more I think about it, Butler has to be involved in the trade because Grant/Odom for Shaq doesn't work under the cap. If the Heat added Malik Allen, it would, but the Lakers don't want him.


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## Cris (Jun 18, 2003)

If The Lakers Get Caron, 

+13.5 ppg, +9.9 rpg, and +4.0 apg. 

If They Dont 

+4.3 ppg, +5.1 rpg, and +2.1 apg.


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## MJG (Jun 29, 2003)

Assuming the latest ESPN reports are true (Grant+Odom+Butler <i>or</i> a first rounder, Heat's choice), Butler won't be coming over if the Heat have any sense. A trade of a late first rounder, one of the league's worst contracts (yes, despite that he's a decent player), and a borderline all-star isn't one that would have me smiling.


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## Cris (Jun 18, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> 
> Although, the more I think about it, Butler has to be involved in the trade because Grant/Odom for Shaq doesn't work under the cap. If the Heat added Malik Allen, it would, but the Lakers don't want him.


L.A. Lakers trades: C Shaquille O'Neal (21.5 ppg, 11.5 rpg, 2.9 apg in 36.8 minutes)
L.A. Lakers receives: SF Lamar Odom	(17.1 ppg, 9.7 rpg, 4.1 apg in 37.5 minutes)
PF Brian Grant	(8.7 ppg, 6.9 rpg, 0.9 apg in 30.3 minutes)
Change in team outlook: +4.3 ppg, +5.1 rpg, and +2.1 apg.

Miami trades: SF Lamar Odom	(17.1 ppg, 9.7 rpg, 4.1 apg in 37.5 minutes)
PF Brian Grant	(8.7 ppg, 6.9 rpg, 0.9 apg in 30.3 minutes)
Miami receives: C Shaquille O'Neal	(21.5 ppg, 11.5 rpg, 2.9 apg in 67 games)
Change in team outlook: -4.3 ppg, -5.1 rpg, and -2.1 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

Due to L.A. Lakers and Miami being over the cap, the 15% trade rule is invoked. L.A. Lakers and Miami had to be no more than 115% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.


Yeh:uhoh:


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

I just heard on ESPNews that the Lakers are demanding Caron Butler.:yes:


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## Locke (Jun 16, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Cris</b>!
> 
> 
> L.A. Lakers trades: C Shaquille O'Neal (21.5 ppg, 11.5 rpg, 2.9 apg in 36.8 minutes)
> ...


Man we're getting screwed royally with this one. I can't believe Mitch and Jerry are this desperate. The Lakers better not do this unless the Heat are willing to part with Butler or Wade.


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## Hov (Aug 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> I just heard on ESPNews that the Lakers are demanding Caron Butler.:yes:


So Kupchack isn't as bad as I thought. 
[Marv Albert]Yes![/Marv Albert]


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## Tyrellaphonte (Feb 21, 2004)

I love this trade.

Lamar Odom is a G. Straight up. He is my favorite player on the heat. (2nd Wade) and he is a GREAT player and a great addition. I think when they first offered Odom to us, this trade excited us. I dont tihnk anyone else would have offered anyone else a young player with as much potential and versatility as Odom. 

Grant, although hes only in there for the cap issues, is a good player. No matter how you look at it, he is capable of posting a double double every game almost. Now thats basically all you want out of a starting center. Think about some teams whose starting centers are Pedra Drobnjac and Greg Ostertag. I'd most definatly rather have a starting Center who can post double doubles than a center who is a scrub and tries to take shots like kobe (Slava)

Butler would be the dealmaker for me. Although i still like this trade with the first and without butler... I love Butler. IMO he is reeeeeeeeeally talented and a Odom/Bryant/Butler trio would be a very strong, very young core of very talented, athletic players.

Good job, mitch kupchak.


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## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> I just heard on ESPNews that the Lakers are demanding Caron Butler.:yes:


Where did you hear that? I heard just recently as this morning that the Heat have the choice to either give them Lamar, Grant, and Butler, OR Lamar, Grant, First Rounder. Either way, i think the trade is awful...


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## Hov (Aug 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>SacKings384</b>!
> 
> 
> Where did you hear that? I heard just recently as this morning that the Heat have the choice to either give them Lamar, Grant, and Butler, OR Lamar, Grant, First Rounder


ESPNews?
 

Anyway, if we can't get Butler, what do you guys think of 1st rounder and Wright?
I think Miami would prefer that more but I'd definitely want Butler instead.

Also, what do you guys think about Etan Thomas? Think we have a shot at him? He's restricted and all we can offer is the MLE. :dead:


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>SacKings384</b>!
> 
> 
> Where did you hear that?


Uhhh...

_"I just heard on ESPNews..."_ 

:yes: No worries.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Hov</b>!
> Also, what do you guys think about Etan Thomas? Think we have a shot at him? He's restricted and all we can offer is the MLE. :dead:


If Kupchak trucks it up, then yes, we should offer him a long-term MLE deal. However, we'd have to act fast because the Bucks are going to offer him one soon. GP/Kobe/Odom/Thomas/Grant wouldn't be too bad. 

But WE NEED BUTLER!:yes:


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## MiamiHeat03 (Mar 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> 
> 
> Uhhh...
> ...


yeah where di you hear that?

i am watching ESPNNEWS and i havent heard anything else.

maybe you got confused.


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## MiamiHeat03 (Mar 28, 2003)

hey i am starting to think you lied to us.

I keep hearing the same thing as before.


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## MiamiHeat03 (Mar 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> I just heard on ESPNews that the Lakers are demanding Caron Butler.:yes:


okay i saw already but in no way does it mean that Caron is included.

Riley might bolt out and decline to give Caron or he can a stupid GM and trade Caron.(which i doubt).


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## erniejohnson (Oct 11, 2003)

I said it on the Heat board and I'll say it here. How does Caron OR a first round pick make any sense? If this was the case the Heat would have given up the pick instead of Caron in a heartbeat. What I think is that this deal hasn't been done because the Lakers want Caron and rightfully so. Odom, Grant's gargantuon salary and a late first rounder isn't nearly enough. If the deal includes Caron and I was Miami I wouldn't do it and if it didn't include Caron and I was the Lakers I wouldn't do it.


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## MiamiHeat03 (Mar 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>erniejohnson</b>!
> I said it on the Heat board and I'll say it here. How does Caron OR a first round pick make any sense? If this was the case the Heat would have given up the pick instead of Caron in a heartbeat. What I think is that this deal hasn't been done because the Lakers want Caron and rightfully so. Odom, Grant's gargantuon salary and a late first rounder isn't nearly enough. If the deal includes Caron and I was Miami I wouldn't do it and if it didn't include Caron and I was the Lakers I wouldn't do it.


glad to know u are both a lakers and Miami fan.

I agree but by me being a HEAT fan i wouldnt include Caron.


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## Pinball (Aug 3, 2002)

In my opinion, Butler has to be included for this deal to make any sense for both teams. Initially, we wanted Wade and the Heat balked at that. Then, I heard Odom, Grant, Butler OR 2 first round picks for Shaq. Now, I'm hearing Odom, Grant, Butler or 1 first round pick for Shaq. What the ****? The deal keeps getting less attractive for LA. At some point in time Miami has to budge and give us something. We're making far more sacrifices than they are. I hope Mitch isn't dumb enough to settle for anything that Miami offers. Either Butler is included or the deal is off. We might get stuck with Shaq but Miami isn't going anywhere unless the upgrade their roster. So far, all they've done this offseason is lose Rafer Alston.


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## Lynx (Mar 6, 2004)

I wonder if Shaq plays for another team next season, will we go for Hack-A-Shaq thing?

_Shame_, we disgraced a player who has meant so much for this franchise.


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## erniejohnson (Oct 11, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Lynx</b>!
> I wonder if Shaq plays for another team next season, will we go for Hack-A-Shaq thing?
> 
> _Shame_, we disgraced a player who has meant so much for this franchise.


Whatever man, Kobe gets a lot of criticism for being selfish this and that but he is one of the hardest working players in the NBA. This guy spends every offseason working his butt off and improving his game while Shaq sits home getting his *** fatter and fatter. When has Shaq made any sacrifices? He's the only one who constantly complains about not getting enough shots, or not getting the huge extenson he wants but isn't willing to put in an ounce of work to make himself better and the team stronger. Trade his fat ***!!!


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## MiamiHeat03 (Mar 28, 2003)

well in my opnion it is stupid to trade 3/5 of your lineup for Shaq.

U think you are making sacrifices?I think the opposite i think Riley would be making a huge mistake if we let go of our 2/3 young core.

Every kept saying that Miami is a big man away from being a contender.
I think we are the one sacrificing for a 32 old Shaq who could probably decline from last year.

ESPN already reported that Shaqs number has decrease from the past 5 years. IMO is not worth that, hey i would happy if Shaq stayed in Lakers but he has said he wont come back no matter what.


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## Lynx (Mar 6, 2004)

Well, I never believed a word of people who judged Kobe as being selfish. Neither I've come to believe Shaq being not Shaq. Yes, Diesel got out of shape but he never let himself and team down whenever the crunch time came. He's the dominating force in the NBA and will be till he retires. Is that hard to understand?


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## MiamiHeat03 (Mar 28, 2003)

yeah i remeber about a month ago how people said Shaq was useless and the reason why they lost the championship.

now u think he will dominating force in the NBA until he retires.

I doubt it, remember Zo,Deke,Hakeem,and Jabbar

they all decline since the age of 32.


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## erniejohnson (Oct 11, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Lynx</b>!
> Well, I never believed a word of people who judged Kobe as being selfish. Neither I've come to believe Shaq being not Shaq. Yes, Diesel got out of shape but he never let himself and team down whenever the crunch time came. He's the dominating force in the NBA and will be till he retires. Is that hard to understand?


What it comes down to is this: Would you be willing to sacrifice 5+ years of success for 2?


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## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

This is still an awful trade EVEN IF Bulter is included... Butler didn't have a good season, he has chronic wait wait... I have ESPN News on right now it's 12:19 P.M July 10'th and they just said that EITHER a first round pick or Caron Butler, nothing about the Lakers demanding Caron... So i don't know what you guys are talkin about...


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## MiamiHeat03 (Mar 28, 2003)

Shaq hasnt been healthy a full Season.

talk about being healthy too.

I think it is an even trade IMO.


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## MiamiHeat03 (Mar 28, 2003)

SacKings they did say that they are demaning Caron but heat hasnt agree to it yet.

watch it again its there. ESPN NEWS.


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## erniejohnson (Oct 11, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>SacKings384</b>!
> This is still an awful trade EVEN IF Bulter is included... Butler didn't have a good season, he has chronic wait wait... I have ESPN News on right now it's 12:19 P.M July 10'th and they just said that EITHER a first round pick or Caron Butler, nothing about the Lakers demanding Caron... So i don't know what you guys are talkin about...


Dude, you don't know anything about Caron Butler, he doesn't have a chronic anything. His injury did slow him down for longer than expected but he came on strong in the second half of the season and in the playoffs. I'd rather have scrappers like Caron on my team over guys like Chris Webber.


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## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

Muahahahahahaha


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## Tyrellaphonte (Feb 21, 2004)

> Originally Posted by *MiamiHeat03!*
> Shaq was useless and the reason why they lost the championship.





> I think we are the one sacrificing for a 32 old Shaq who could probably decline from last year.


Come on. I think it is downright shameful how people regard Shaq. I'm gonna say this once and only once. (unless someone wants me to say it again  ) 

SHAQ HAD BAD NUMBERS LAST YEAR NOT BECAUSE HE IS DECLINING, BUT BECAUSE HE HAD 3 OTHER HALL OF FAMERS ON HIS TEAM WHO ALSO HAD TO SCORE!!!!!!! HOW IS HE GONNA GET HIS 26.5 PPG IF YOU HAVE TO GIVE MALONE AND PAYTON EACH OVER 15 A GAME OR SOMETHING AND THEN KOBES THE BIG SCORER? EVEN KOBE HAD A DROP OFF IN POINTS LAST YEAR. YOU GUYS REALLY NEED TO PAY ATTENTION. SHAQ WAS STILL ABLE TO GET A DOUBLE DOUBLE AT LEAST EVERY SINGLE FUKKIN GAME AND THAT IS CRAZY. NAME ONE PERSON ON THE HEAT WHO CAN DO THAT? HE IS A GREAT ADDITION TO YOUR TEAM. GAME OVER, lesson through

And you think that he was the reason why they lost the championship? OPEN YOUR EYES! HE WAS THE REASON WHY THEY DIDNT LOSE BY 50 EVERY GAME! We all know that kobe was the reason why we lost. He had horrible games. IT HAPPENS.

Now that I have unleashed my knowledge on you people, Ima go play some ball.

Discuss please...


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## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>crespi_jv_21</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Your delusional if you don't think Shaq is declining. 

BUT Shaq is still a great , great player. There's still not a center that can hold him. 

But with Miami where Shaq is gonna be asked to carry the full regular season load he's gonna break down. Kobe carried the regular season load the last 3 season or so with the Lakers. Shaq comes up big time in the post season but Shaq can't dominate a complete season anymore without breaking down. 

Kobe helped him big time and allowed him to rest for large chunks of the regular season. 

Wade is gonna have to really increase his production. Eddie Jones will help something Kobe and Shaq never had a solid 3rd wheel.


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## Tyrellaphonte (Feb 21, 2004)

Wat i meant in my post was that I dont think that Shaq is declining as much as people think he is.

Your dam right hes still the most dominant center... AND your also right that no one can hold him

But im soorry and i think ur wrong that he'll break down.

Him, Jones, Wade... maybe stro..... could be great man... could be great


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