# Miami Heat Bench vs Raptors or Cavs



## Dee-Zy (Jan 12, 2006)

Who would win in a 7 game series?

Heat:
Arroyo (or Chalmers, your pick)
Miller
James Jones
Haslem
Big Z

Bench:
House
Mags
Juwan Howard


Raptors:
Calderon
Derozan
Kleiza
Amir Johnson
Bargnani

Bench:
Jarret Jack
Barbosa
Belinelli
Reggie Grab Balls Evans


Cavs:
Mo Will
Anthony Parker
Moon
Jamison
Sideshow Bob

Bench:
Sessions
Boobie
Hickson
Leon Powe



It's good to be a Heat fan!!! 
http://www.theonion.com/articles/james-bosh-wade-decide-nickname-will-be-the-threeh,17788/


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## Dee-Zy (Jan 12, 2006)

We don't have a lot of players that can create. Arroyomight be our best bet (maybe Miller?)

But then again, Raptors have Bargnani who I think will have problems scoring on Big Z and Haslem and Barbosa (The only real threat I find here) and Cavs have Mo Will and Jamison. I think Haslem can deal with Jamison fine.


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## myst (Feb 22, 2006)

We would come in third.


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## thaKEAF (Mar 8, 2004)




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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

Are you trying to annoy the rest of the league and its fans? Quit this ego ****. That 'Heat' team wouldn't win anything. 

Give respect to earn respect.


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## UD40 (May 12, 2005)

Raptors have the most impressive out of those three.


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## UD40 (May 12, 2005)

And no, I'm not saying that cause I read Porn's post.


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## Eternal (Sep 7, 2005)

1. Raptors
2. Cavs
3. Heat


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## Wade2Bosh (Mar 31, 2004)

^yup.


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## Dwyane Wade (Oct 12, 2004)

Lets be seroius, our bench isnt the deepest bench. The reason ppl have our team as a contender is because of the Super 3, not because of our bench


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)




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## sMaK (Jun 13, 2002)

Our bench is terrible. Not sure why you think any of those guys are that good.


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## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

Dee-Zy said:


> Reggie Grab Balls Evans


Worst NBA name ever.


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## Shaoxia (Dec 5, 2007)

That is a bad comparison. You should take away the other two teams' best three players. Then Miami would come out on top.


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## Dee-Zy (Jan 12, 2006)

ok, I got carried away 

I think we have a really good bench. Better yhan any teams' bench not named LA


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## Shaoxia (Dec 5, 2007)

Dee-Zy said:


> ok, I got carried away
> 
> I think we have a really good bench. Better yhan any teams' bench not named LA


LA's bench sucks! They only have one good bench player. Half of the league's teams have better bench players.


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## Jace (Sep 26, 2005)

Not sure that's true...


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

I think the consensus is Miami's bench isn't horrible but let's not get carried away here.

Orlando
Gortat
Bass
Pietrus/Qrich
Redick
Duhon

Mavs 
Chandler
Ajinca
Stevenson
Terry
Beaubois

Phoenix
Fyre
Dudley
Dragic
Childress
Warrick
Maybe one of them will start

Utah
Fesenko
Milisap
Gordon Heyward
Raja Bell
Ronnie Price

I can go on and on, but there are plenty of teams with pretty deep benches.


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## mo76 (Jun 13, 2003)

Haslem and House are both mascots. Seriously, House is a guard that can't dribble and Udonis is an aging undersized hustle player. Both are in the running for "the worst player in the NBA award".

Juwan Howard? What is he like 50? 





The heat are the big 3 and anything else they could find on the scrapheap.


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## myst (Feb 22, 2006)

Udonis Haslem for worst player in the NBA? hahah


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## UD40 (May 12, 2005)

mo76 said:


> Haslem and House are both mascots. Seriously, House is a guard that can't dribble and Udonis is an aging undersized hustle player. Both in the running for "the worst player in the NBA award".


That's a bit much.

Without the shooting of House, and the hustle/defense of Haslem, then you could argue that the Mavs should've won in 2006, and the Lakers should have three straight titles.

Big Z, Juwan, Arroyo...they could be 'bums' but House and Haslem? I'd be hard pressed to find ANY team in the NBA that wouldn't want them.


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## Dwyane Wade (Oct 12, 2004)

mo76 said:


> Haslem and House are both mascots. Seriously, House is a guard that can't dribble and Udonis is an aging undersized hustle player. Both in the running for "the worst player in the NBA award".
> 
> Juwan Howard? What is he like 50?
> 
> ...


U are def. in teh running for "the worst poster award."


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## mo76 (Jun 13, 2003)

Dwyane Wade said:


> U are def. in teh running for "the worst poster award."



:champagne:


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## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

UD40 said:


> That's a bit much.
> 
> Without the shooting of House, and the hustle/defense of Haslem, then you could argue that the Mavs should've won in 2006, and the Lakers should have three straight titles.
> 
> Big Z, Juwan, Arroyo...they could be 'bums' but House and Haslem? I'd be hard pressed to find ANY team in the NBA that wouldn't want them.


I wouldn't touch House, but gimme Udonis. The guy is a scrapper and you can't have enough of those.


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## Pay Ton (Apr 18, 2003)

Dee-Zy said:


> ok, I got carried away


Okay, good.



> I think we have a really good bench. Better yhan any teams' bench not named LA


Wait, what?


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## mo76 (Jun 13, 2003)

Dee-Zy said:


> ok, I got carried away
> 
> I think we have a really good bench. Better yhan any teams' bench not named LA


For such a die hard heat fan :sour:, you don't follow the nba too closely do you.


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## Dwyane Wade (Oct 12, 2004)

Porn_Player said:


> Are you trying to annoy the rest of the league and its fans? Quit this ego ****. That 'Heat' team wouldn't win anything.
> 
> Give respect to earn respect.


Some of you need to relax, I don't think deezy was trying to be offensive..


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## Dee-Zy (Jan 12, 2006)

I think we have a better bench than Boston, Suns, Utah (With Boozer gone, Milsap is no longer on the bench and that's a big hit to their depth) and Mavs. LA's bench is really good with Blake, Odom and Barnes.

Orlando has a good bench with Gortat, Bass, Pietrus (I'm guessing Q might start over Pietrus) and Duhon (Is reddick really better than house?)

I eat crow about Orlando. I forgot about them but I don't think the Heat's bench is that further away.

Arroyo, UD and miller should give the same type of impact as Gortat Bass and Duhon. James Jones and House should be about the same thing as Pietrus and Reddick, I might get heat for Pietrus but he has underperformed since he got to Orlando.


I am not saying they have the same role on each team but I think that if you could quantify what they can bring to the team off the bench, the production should be similar, a slight edge to Orlando.

I might be homer right now and get carried away again but I do think that we have a good bench. Mike Miller, UD and Arroyo are big signing and having House and Big Z is not shabby either. They might not be great but as a 9th and 10th player, I think they are really good.


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## Dee-Zy (Jan 12, 2006)

I am not trying to piss anybody. Hence the reason why I posted this in the Heat forum and not in NBA general. You guys are the one coming in here. Not the other way around. I am not going to your forums either.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

Yes JJ Reddick is much better than House. No Arroyo, Miller and Haslem do not compare to Gortat Bass and Duhon. 

And yes it's painfully obvious you don't watch the players you are talking about.


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## Dwyane Wade (Oct 12, 2004)

Porn_Player said:


> Are you trying to annoy the rest of the league and its fans? Quit this ego ****. That 'Heat' team wouldn't win anything.
> 
> Give respect to earn respect.


Some of you need to relax, I don't think deezy was trying to be offensive..


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

Dee-Zy said:


> I think we have a better bench than Boston, Suns, Utah (With Boozer gone, Milsap is no longer on the bench and that's a big hit to their depth) and Mavs. LA's bench is really good with Blake, Odom and Barnes.


If Milisap isn't on the bench then Al Jefferson is on the bench. Pick your poison. I expect Okur to start as C so either one of them would be on the bench.

The Mavs got a loaded team, Beaubois has tons of potential and Chandler/Stevenson were all starters on former teams.

There are also other teams I could list. 

Portland: Camby/Babbitt/Bayless/Rudy Fernandez(assuming he stays).

Denver: Ty Lawson/Birdman/Al Harrington

San Antonio: George Hill/Blair/Mcdyess(or Splitter)

I can go on and on but you get the point. Miami's bench isn't horrible because their big 3 will all play close to 40 min a game. Talent wise theres no way you rank Miami's bench higher than most teams.


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## mo76 (Jun 13, 2003)

Dee-Zy said:


> I am not trying to piss anybody. Hence the reason why I posted this in the Heat forum and not in NBA general. You guys are the one coming in here. Not the other way around. I am not going to your forums either.


I assume most people click on "new posts" to refresh, so everyone can see the thread title (where you are clearly bashing the raptors and cavs).

Oh, and the fact that you think the heat have a better bench than the suns is laughable.


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## Jace (Sep 26, 2005)

mo76 said:


> Haslem and House are both mascots. Seriously, House is a guard that can't dribble and Udonis is an aging undersized hustle player. *Both in the running for "the worst player in the NBA award".*
> 
> Juwan Howard? What is he like 50?
> 
> The heat are the big 3 and anything else they could find on the scrapheap.


Had to throw the credibility-killer in there...


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## Jace (Sep 26, 2005)

Gortat, Bass, Duhon is not much better than Miller, Haslem, Arroyo, but I'll give them the slight edge. Duhon had a crap season last year, and Arroyo played very well. Gortat and Bass are nice pieces though. Sorry, Deezy, but you've been pretty off in most of what you've said. And I guess you aren't aware Al Jefferson is on the Jazz now...



mo76 said:


> I assume most people click on "new posts" to refresh, so everyone can see the thread title


I didn't know anyone did that.


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## mo76 (Jun 13, 2003)

Jace said:


> Had to throw the credibility-killer in there...


I think it was clear i was being flippant? Are you suggesting I thought that was a real award? Are you suggesting that UD and House don't suck. I stand by what I said.


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## mo76 (Jun 13, 2003)

Jace said:


> Gortat, Bass, Duhon is not much better than Miller, Haslem, Arroyo, but I'll give them the slight edge. Duhon had a crap season last year, and Arroyo played very well. Gortat and Bass are nice pieces though. Sorry, Deezy, but you've been pretty off in most of what you've said. And I guess you aren't aware Al Jefferson is on the Jazz now...
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't know anyone did that.


Well, what I meant is find more threads. (sorry about the mix up) 

I assume some people do this since there is a tab labeled "new posts"


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## mo76 (Jun 13, 2003)

Jace said:


> Had to throw the credibility-killer in there...


oh, and if you are referring to the improper grammar, i'm pretty sure some mod changed it.


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## Wade2Bosh (Mar 31, 2004)

^Im pretty sure he meant that you lose instant credibility if you think UD is that bad.


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## Smithian (Apr 3, 2006)

mo76 said:


> Haslem and House are both mascots. Seriously, House is a guard that can't dribble and *Udonis is an aging undersized hustle player. Both are in the running for "the worst player in the NBA award".*


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## Jace (Sep 26, 2005)

W2B wins the reading comprehension award


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## mo76 (Jun 13, 2003)

Oh, so i guess defending Udonis Haslem to the bitter end makes you a "real" heat fan and not some band-wagoner. Got it.


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## UD40 (May 12, 2005)

Bandwagon of what? All but one Heat poster in this thread joined before we even won the title, and well before LeBron.


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## carlos710 (Jun 13, 2002)

The rockets have a pretty good bench too(Lowry / budinger / battier / patterson / b. miller / jeffries / hill / hayes)

Also I don't know why some people are using bass as an example of the strength of magic's bench. He barely played last year.


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## sMaK (Jun 13, 2002)

mo76 said:


> Oh, so i guess defending Udonis Haslem to the bitter end makes you a "real" heat fan and not some band-wagoner. Got it.


I just don't think you've seen Haslem play much. First of all he's really not undersized for a PF. He's 6'8. Secondly he's pretty solid. I imagine you were exaggerating when you said he was the worst player in the NBA but he's really not even close to being the worst. You really have no case here. I was gonna call you a troll but I think you're serious.


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## Dee-Zy (Jan 12, 2006)

I think UD is undersized at 6'8" and I don't think Suns have a better bench. I didn't know Al Jefferson is on the Jazz now.


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## mo76 (Jun 13, 2003)

Dee-Zy said:


> I think UD is undersized at 6'8" and I don't think Suns have a better bench. I didn't know Al Jefferson is on the Jazz now.


the suns have the best second unit in the league. they were on display in the western conference finals this year.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

Dee-Zy said:


> I think UD is undersized at 6'8" and I don't think Suns have a better bench.


Did you even watch the playoffs last year? The Suns had arguably the best bench if not a definite top 3 out of all the playoff teams last year. It's not even comparable. Guys like Dragic/Dudley/Fyre/Amundson/Barbosa were all solid last year. They lost Barbosa and Amundson but it's still an above average bench with guys like Childress/Warrick added into the mix. That is assuming that none of them gets inserted into the starting lineup with Amare gone. Either way, if Warrick or Fyre starts and Grant Hill comes off the bench there are still a lot of quality players on that bench.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

Dee-Zy said:


> ok, I got carried away
> 
> I think we have a really good bench. Better yhan any teams' bench not named LA


Probably the dumbest thing that I've read around here in a while.


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## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

I have to clarify a couple of the benches discussed on this thread:

Dallas Starters (according to their coach's intentions):
Kidd/Beaubois/Caron/Dirk/Haywood

*Dallas Bench*
PG JJ Barea
SG Jason Terry
SF Shawn Marion
PF Ian Mahinmi
C Tyson Chandler
------------------
G Dominique Jones
F Greg Buckner
C Alexis Ajinca

That's actually a team that could legitimately win some games. I think that's clearly the league's best bench at this time.

Utah Starters:
DWill/CJ Miles/AK-47/Millsap/Big Al

*Utah Bench*
PG Ronnie Price
SG Raja Bell
SF Gordon Hayward
PF Mehmet Okur
C Kyrylo Fesenko
------------------
G Sundiata Gaines
F Jeremy Evans

While not horrible, that bench isn't top 5 in the league.

Orlando Starters:
Jameer/Vince/Q/Rashard/Dwight

*Orlando Bench*
PG Chris Duhon
SG JJ Redick
SF Mickael Pietrus
PF Ryan Anderson
C Marcin Gortat
------------------
G Jason Williams (rumored only)
F Brandon Bass
F Daniel Orton

That's definitely a top 5 bench in the league. 

Another bench in the East who's arguably better than the Heat's:

Milwaukee Starters:
Jennings/Salmons/Delfino/Mbah a Moute/Bogut

*Milwaukee Bench*
PG Keyon Dooling (right on the same level as Arroyo/Chalmers)
SG Michael Redd (much better than House, if healthy)
SF Corey Maggette (easily better than Jones)
PF Ersan Ilyasova (not on Haslem's level)
C Drew Gooden (basically a wash at this position)
------------------
G Chris Douglas-Roberts (improving young talent)
F Jon Brockman (young talent stolen from the Kings)
F Larry Sanders (intriguing young shot-blocker)

Let's not get carried away with this Heat Bench. They are probably in the top half of the benches in the league, but calling them top 10 seems like a bit of a stretch at this point to me.


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## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

Most of this is just opinion. I would argue that Orlando's bench isn't that good and the strength of that team's starters is what makes them look better than they are and that would simply be my opinion.

Haslem led the league in double doubles off the bench and Mike Miller is arguably one of the best shooters in the entire league. I have no problem calling ours a top ten bench based on projection.


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## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

Based on adjusted plus/minus, here were the 12 best benches in the league last season:

1) Boston
2) LA Lakers
3) Utah
4) Dallas
5) San Antonio
6) Atlanta
7) Chicago
8) Phoenix
9) Portland
10) Orlando
11) Houston
12) Denver

Where did Miami's bench fall? 15th overall. What did the bench look like last year?

PG Mario Chalmers
SG Dorell Wright
SF James Jones
PF Udonis Haslem
C Joel Anthony
G Daequan Cook
C Jamaal Magloire

So the only differences between last year's bench and this year's are House instead of Cook (similar players, but Cook might be better) and Miller instead of Wright (how much of an upgrade is that?). I would say Miller is clearly the better player. Is he enough to move the Heat bench up 5 spots? Let's look at last year's top 12 for clues.

1) Dallas - bench got much better by adding Marion and Chandler. Best in the NBA.
2) Lakers - bench improved by adding Barnes. Blake vs. Farmar is a wash.
3) Boston - bench might have declined slightly from Wallace/Allen to O'Neal/Wafer.
4) San Antonio - bench improved slightly with addition of Splitter. Anderson vs. Mason is a wash.
5) Phoenix - bench improved by adding Grant Hill from the starting line-up and Josh Childress from Greece.
6) Portland - bench improved slightly with Babbit/Matthews in place of Webster.
7) Atlanta - bench stayed the same. Will improve if Shaq is added.
8) Orlando - bench stayed the same. Duhon vs. Williams is a wash.
9) Houston - bench improved slightly with additions of Brad Miller/Patrick Patterson.
10) Denver - bench stayed basically the same.
11) Chicago - bench got a little worse, but is not finalized.
12) Utah - bench got a little worse. Okur/Bell/Hayward vs. Millsap/Matthews is a slight downgrade.
13) Milwaukee - bench improved considerably with additions of Maggette and Gooden and possibly Redd.

Is there really room anywhere in there for Miami? I don't think so.


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## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

You're neglecting momentum. The best teams always have the best benches because they are the best teams. Even when Shaq and Kobe were surrounded by Samaki Walker and other garbage Phil could put out headscratcher rosters for extended minutes and the lead would grow. Even when Shaq and Kobe would sit out with injury the team would still roll. Momentum is a scary thing.

Miller is a starter in this league. I understand everyone seems to be down on him at the moment but the guy can ball his ass off. I hear that from his peers. I always hear NBA players talk about how good Mike Miller is and the guy is going to shoot wide open jumpers this year.

I expect a top 10 bench and I would be disappointed with anything less.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

Adam said:


> You're neglecting momentum. The best teams always have the best benches because they are the best teams. Even when Shaq and Kobe were surrounded by Samaki Walker and other garbage Phil could put out headscratcher rosters for extended minutes and the lead would grow. Even when Shaq and Kobe would sit out with injury the team would still roll. Momentum is a scary thing.
> 
> Miller is a starter in this league. I understand everyone seems to be down on him at the moment but the guy can ball his ass off. I hear that from his peers. I always hear NBA players talk about how good Mike Miller is and the guy is going to shoot wide open jumpers this year.
> 
> I expect a top 10 bench and I would be disappointed with anything less.


But does that really mean the Heat's bench is better though? I've said a page or 2 earlier that the only reason why the Heat bench isn't considered terrible is because their big 3 will all play close or over 40 min a game which means there is very little that will be required from its bench. Chances are Lebron or Wade will be out there along with bench players making things easier for everyone.

Again, the OP listed a Heat's bench players and compared it to the starters of 2 teams. I don't see how momentum has anything to do with this. Talent wise Heat's bench is considered supbar by league standards and I've already explained why.


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## Wade2Bosh (Mar 31, 2004)

This bench argument is almost a waste of time. Especially considering that a team like Miami will always have either Wade or Lebron on the court, at all times. But it is the offseason so carry on


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## Dee-Zy (Jan 12, 2006)

It's true that momentum wouldn't play a factor.

With Utah and Suns losing STAT and Booze, I really think their bench is taking a hit.


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## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

Dee-Zy said:


> With Utah and Suns losing STAT and Booze, I really think their bench is taking a hit.


Those are starters. Both have been replaced. Whether or not you like the replacements made to their respective starting line-ups, they have no bearing in this discussion. Look at the benches themselves compared with last year's benches. Utah's bench has regrouped and retooled. Phoenix's bench has actually improved.


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## Dee-Zy (Jan 12, 2006)

Having somebody from the bench starting means that the bench has weakened.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

Dee-Zy said:


> Having somebody from the bench starting means that the bench has weakened.


How does losing Boozer and getting Al Jefferson weaken your bench? Phoenix lost Amare and replaced him either with Warrick/Fyre. Their starting unit is worse, much worse, but they reloaded their bench with guys like Josh Childress, the aforementioned Warrick, and Hill (likely moved to bench because of Turkoglu). We're comparing backups here, the Suns have certainly improved in that area and some may argue the Jazz as well with Gordon Heyward and Raja Bell.


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## myst (Feb 22, 2006)

I haven't read through the whole thread, but you guys don't seem to be counting the fact that either Wade or Lebron will be on the floor at ALL times. Wade and Lebron have both turned teams full of scrubs into playoff teams, so the bench will definitely be one of the best for the simple fact that they will be on the court with a top 3 player.


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## Jace (Sep 26, 2005)

Cook is not better than House. Still too streaky and has yet to learn his limitations.



mo76 said:


> Oh, so i guess defending Udonis Haslem to the bitter end makes you a "real" heat fan and not some band-wagoner. Got it.


? 

You may have bitten off more than you can masticate. Does saying he's not in the running for worst player in the NBA constitute "defending Udonis Haslem to the bitter end?" I'll let you reconsider that one. I think you may be a bit out of your element here.












UD40 said:


> Bandwagon of what? All but one Heat poster in this thread joined before we even won the title, and well before LeBron.


LOL, honestly. Take a glance to the left before throwing that word out there. I should add I was either a silent lurker for at least a year before I joined, or lost my initial account or something. I really can't remember, but who cares anyway. 2005 is OG enough, relative to the influx we will be seeing soon.



RollWithEm said:


> Those are starters. Both have been replaced. Whether or not you like the *replacements made to their respective starting line-ups*, they have no bearing in this discussion. Look at the benches themselves compared with last year's benches. Utah's bench has regrouped and retooled. Phoenix's bench has actually improved.





Dee-Zy said:


> Having somebody from the bench starting means that the bench has weakened.






myst said:


> I haven't read through the whole thread, but you guys don't seem to be counting the fact that either Wade or Lebron will be on the floor at ALL times. Wade and Lebron have both turned teams full of scrubs into playoff teams, so the bench will definitely be one of the best for the simple fact that they will be on the court with a top 3 player.


Good point, but I think we're talking about pure bench players. I will mention, though, that we actually have two players on our bench that are better than our starters in the margins. If Chalmers and Anthony moved to the bench (where they'd be on most teams), our bench is significantly weaker.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Dee-Zy said:


> Who would win in a 7 game series?
> 
> Heat:
> Arroyo (or Chalmers, your pick)
> ...


Have you always been a Heat fan? Or are you just one of those "I've always loved the Heat bro!" but hardly ever posted about them until now?


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Why are people acting like their join date means anything? I could jump on the bandwagon right now, does that mean I've been a Heat fan since 02?

Join date means sweat **** all.

But in his defense Jace is not a bandwagon fan by any means.


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## Jace (Sep 26, 2005)

Hahaha, R-Star...that's one thing we can definitely agree on. Good point on the join date. I sometimes forget the fact that a lot of people surf around these boards. I guess I just feel like if you're going to go as far as joining an internet discussion forum, it's because you're a die-hard fan of a certain team, and those kinds of allegiances usually don't change. I realize there are people who are purely avid basketball fans and just want to talk hoops, but that wasn't in my scope of consideration at the time of the post. Still, though, putting the date _and _location together should clue one in to my non-bandwagon status, though still not an automatic assertion.

And yes, contrary to his avatar and location, Dee-zy has always been fighting the good fight with us.


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## Smithian (Apr 3, 2006)

I can confirm Dee-Zy's long time Heat fan status. We were the two man Joel Anthony fan club back in 2008.

All these people on here ragging on our bench are just haters who are upset their predictions of us having the worst bench of all time blew up in their faces. Our bench when it comes right down to it has taken shape to fill our needs. Veteran big guys? Z, Magloire, and Haslem. Sharp shooters? Hello James Jones, House, and Miller. I'm pleased with our bench. 

Above all, I also realize Wade dragged utter crap his whole career to winning seasons, playoff miracles, and epic overachievement. Now throw in LeBron and Bosh? Ruh roh, some teams gonna die this year.


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## Dee-Zy (Jan 12, 2006)

I did completely forget that Al Jefferson was traded.

I won't say anymore on this conversation. I have stated that I was wrong but I also think that our bench is actually decent.

I'll keep it at that and as for me being a fan that just jumped on the bandwagon, I think every heat fans in this forum can back me up on this.

Been a Heat fan before we even won the chip and was still a Heat fan through the dark years.


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## mo76 (Jun 13, 2003)

Jace said:


> Cook is not better than House. Still too streaky and has yet to learn his limitations.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


:whiteflag:

btw, i was talking to everyone not just you. 

UDONIS Haslem is a good player and you are an "OG" of the heat boards. Is that better?


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