# One more great thing about the Clippers



## Bully (Jul 15, 2002)

You don't see any of their players on the overpaid list. Check out Hoopsworld.com list at each position - we all hope Sterling pays to keep our great young team together, but in the end, I would rather have a stingey ******* owner with young talent than Alan Houston's contract, Kemp's contract, Ilgauskis contract... . 

Bully


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## TheRifleman (May 20, 2002)

There are usually 2 ways to look at most things and your view isn't shared by many, but it is your opinion and you're entitled to have it.


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## RD (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>TheRifleman</b>!
> There are usually 2 ways to look at most things and your view isn't shared by many, but it is your opinion and you're entitled to have it.



Actually, that should be the view of everyone.

A team should not overpay for mediocrity. If as a fan, you are happy your team does that, I guess that's your deal, and you can feel what you want. 

I for one am glad this team hasn't overpaid for mediocrity in the past, and I do not see them doing it in the future. There won't be any Houston's, Bakers, Big Z's, etc. on the Clippers. Let the other teams create headaches by doing so.

A good thing with this team now is also that it's going to be tough to overpay for anyone on the team. Brand, LO, Miller are worth just about whatever they get. Giving them the MAX(and I dont necessarily think they do give them the MAX) is paying them what they are worth. 

I think Kandi is the one player that might become overpaid. And if that happens, I'll be upset, but at least he won't be overpaid to the extent of the Baker's and Houston's of the NBA.


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## basketball_jesus (Jun 15, 2002)

I agree with RD. As long as our owner pays for the good talent (Brand, Miller, Q, LO) I don't mind him not maxing out people who don't deserve it. (MoTaylor, DA)


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## Quasi-Quasar (Jul 18, 2002)

*Kandi*

Yeah, RD hit it on the nail, Kandi will get way too much if he's re-signed....What I'd like to see done with Kandi is sign him to a 6 year 72 million dollar contract that's structured to start at around 8.2 mil. Then the team has options, they can trade him and Q for Lebron and a cap filler if it's on the table. And on another note, Ely will be just as effective as Kandi, except he plays hard and has better D, and center shouldn't be a concern if Kandi's traded becuase Zo,Campbell and a few other solid veteran centers are FAs next year.


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## Sir I Gotta Go (Jul 7, 2002)

Olowokandi
PPG 11.10
BPG 1.81
SPG .69
APG 1.10
RPG 8.90
FG% .433
FT% .622
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As for potential... He is 27. If he had potential he would have fulfilled it by now.

He is no way worth the max. maybe a Raef Lafrentz kind of contract just because he is big and can slow down shaq. But not the max.


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## JOHNNY_BRAVisimO (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Malakian</b>!
> Olowokandi
> PPG 11.10
> BPG 1.81
> ...


good point. kandi has a small window to operate with if he ever reaches his "potential", he may very well be past his prime in a little less then 5 years


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## RD (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Malakian</b>!
> 
> As for potential... He is 27. If he had potential he would have fulfilled it by now.


That is not necessarily true.

Kandi only played 3 years of organized basketball at the time he entered the league. 

He is not on the same 'scale' as other players when it comes to his age. By that, I mean, just because he's 27, doesn't mean he should have reached his potential already. He does have a shorter timeframe now to reach that potential and to play at a high level, but just because he's 27 doesn't mean he can't reach a high level and play at it for a long time. 

Kandi could improve over the next 2 years and become a star. He'd probably be able to play another 4/5 years at a high level. Thats not as long as a Shaq type star, but that's still quality play.

I agree that he is not worth the MAX, or right near it. I just disagree with the comment about him being 27 and that he should have reached his potential by now.


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## ClipReplacement (Jul 23, 2002)

This thread is full of so much jibberish, I could not hold back any longer.

Anyone who knows anything about the NBA knows that it takes about 5 years for big men to mature. Only Shaq and Duncan came into the league and dominated; they are the exception, not the rule. To say that Kandi has no room for improvement...well which Kandi are you talking about? The one we saw for 3 and 1/2 seasons, or the one we saw in the second half of last year? If you're saying that he can't or won't improve much from late last season, that may be true, but only due to the fact that he was UNSTOPPABLE in some games down the stretch and when you get that good, yes, it's hard to improve on such high-level play. If he can play better than he has already shown he can play, that will be remarkable. The thing with Kandi is consistency. If he can bring what he has shown he can do, every night, he will make his mark on this league and will dispel the "bust" label. Everyone around the league now knows that he is the real deal and that's why EVERYONE wants to sign him (Dallas, New York, to name a few). Last season he was the only big man who could somewhat guard Shaq. Name another? Also, how many players in the league would dare to get in Shaq's face like Mike did last year? Very few my friends. Mike is a lot tougher than people realize, so stop doggin' him. Pay him the money. Big men coming into their prime are an extremely scarce commodity in the league. And I don't know why people are worrying so much about "over-paying". If it doesn't work out, trade him. Any contract can be dumped (see Shawn Kemp). Regardless, paying Kandi is not paying for mediocrity. He's one of the top centers in the West, and the league, and if Vlade Divac wasn't in the West, he would be the 2nd best center in the West behind Shaq. Even Vlade has raved about Mike's improvement. If Vlade's numbers drop off and Mike continues to improve, he could make the All-Star team this coming season simply due to the lack of big men at the position. As far as Ely being more effective than Kandi, I doubt it. He's 2-3 inches shorter than Mike, and Mike is more athletic and stronger. I think Ely will be a great backup to Mike, and can fill in some time at PF behind Brand, but saying he's ready to unseat Mike is far-fetched.

Moving on...Speculating about things like trading Q and Kandi for Lebron James is pure comedy. What makes you think the Clippers have any shot at Lebron James? Don't hold your breathe. Whoever wins the lottery next season (unlikely to be the Clips even if they don't make the playoffs) is going to draft Lebron and keep him. He will not be part of a package deal. The Cav's and Warriors seem like they are already planning for the Lebron sweepstakes. (as a side note, considering that Cleveland matched yesterday to keep Ricky Davis, IF the Cav's do eventually land Lebron, that team will be sick -- Miles, Dajuan, Ricky D, and Lebron? DOH!!)

Here are my predictions. The Clippers will sign Brand, Kandi and Miller to the max (or close to), and they will not pay Odom UNLESS he starts playing like the All-Star caliber player everyone thinks he can be, consistently, while staying healthy. That's a tall order. He may be too fragile to risk big money on (see Stanley Roberts). Players like Maggette and Q will not be maxed out, although the Clippers will try to keep them. The fact is, 2's and 3's are a dime a dozen in the league, while 1's and 5's are worth their weight in gold. That's just the way it is right now. This is one of the reasons the Clips were willing to part with Miles. Since the Clipps will have to pay their cornerstones (Brand, Miller, and Kandi), Q and/or Maggette could be moved if their agents start making too much noise about extensions and max money.

I hope I haven't offended the "thought police".

These are just my opinions. And everyone knows that opinions are like ... well, everyone has one.


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## TheRifleman (May 20, 2002)

<i>"Anyone who knows anything about the NBA knows that it takes about 5 years for big men to mature. Only Shaq and Duncan came into the league and dominated; they are the exception, not the rule"</i>

I don't know what big men you're talking about because it certainly couldn't have been these guys taking 5 years - just to name a few:

Wilt
Russell
Lucas
Thurmond
Kareem
Bellamy
Willis
Cowens
Hayes
Lanier
Unseld
MOSES
Walton
Parish
Cartwright
Daugherty
EWING
ROBINSON
ZO
HAKEEM


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Malakian</b>!
> Olowokandi
> PPG 11.10
> BPG 1.81
> ...


You must not have watched the last 15-20 games...in a very long stretch of games at the end of the season he was averaging 17ppg and around 10rpg. He isn't worth the max, but he deserves close to it.


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## JOHNNY_BRAVisimO (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>The X Factor</b>!
> 
> 
> You must not have watched the last 15-20 games...in a very long stretch of games at the end of the season he was averaging 17ppg and around 10rpg. He isn't worth the max, but he deserves close to it.


rickey davis had a better stretch at the end of the season


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## JOHNNY_BRAVisimO (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>RD</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


now thats the post of someone BLINDLY defending a natoriously cheap owner, its fine and dandy if you wont overpay for mediocrity _if_ you have visions of building a championship calibur squad, but for the entire exsistance of the clippers, there was no vision of championships

overpaying for mediocre talent and paying to keep a winning team are different things, and sterling has yet to prove he is willing to dish out the paychecks, the clippers are known for having the crappiest facilities and making their NBA players practice in the YMCA

its blind and stupid IMHO to think sterling didnt pay to keep those other teams together because he didnt want to strive for mediocrity, because like i just stated, he was never building or even envisioning to build a championship calibur team which would give him a _legit_ reason for not ""overpaying for mediocrity""


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## JOHNNY_BRAVisimO (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>TheRifleman</b>!
> <i>"Anyone who knows anything about the NBA knows that it takes about 5 years for big men to mature. Only Shaq and Duncan came into the league and dominated; they are the exception, not the rule"</i>
> 
> I don't know what big men you're talking about because it certainly couldn't have been these guys taking 5 years - just to name a few:
> ...



more........

chris webber
antonio mcdyse
juwan howard
**elton brand**
theo ratliff
rasheed wallace
brad miller
kenyon martin 
etc.....


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## RD (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>JOHNNY_BRAVisimO</b>!
> 
> 
> now thats the post of someone BLINDLY defending a natoriously cheap owner, its fine and dandy if you wont overpay for mediocrity _if_ you have visions of building a championship calibur squad, but for the entire exsistance of the clippers, there was no vision of championships
> ...


It's neither blind nor stupid my friend.

I do understand that Sterling has never put out the money to keep the team together.

What you fail to acknowledge is that Sterling has never had players that have deserved the money they've asked for.

Why has this team never had visions of a championship? Because of poor drafting. Randy Woods, Elmore Spencer, Bo Kimble, etc. This team hasn't been bad because they let good players walk - That can't be true, since they haven't let anyone great walk. It's been poor because they haven't been able to add any valuable young talent when they draft. And years ago, that's how you had to build, was via the draft. And with the team blowing it year after year, there was no chance of the team winning. 

The Clippers offered Mo Taylor $50mill to stay. how is that cheap? Mo wanted the MAX, and the Clips refused. That is not being cheap. That is being smart. The team offered him money that he was worth, and that was a buttload of money. It's not their fault Taylor is a fool and thought higher of himself. 
Sterling put the team in the hands of Baylor - He told Baylor he'd re-sign the players that Elg felt should be re-signed at market value. Elg said to let those players(Mo and DA) go and we'll try and rebuild.

Has Sterling and Co. ever ponied up the money to keep the team together? Certainly not.

But, has he ever had players worth paying huge deals to? No.

Should he OVERPAY drastically to keep a team together? Certainly not.

Everything has changed in the past few years. The team is finally drafting well. Lamar Odom, Darius Miles, Q RIchardson, etc. Then they turned a couple good deals to get other players(in one, shipping out Miles obviously).

All that's left is for STerling to keep the team together.

Will he? Nobody knows for sure. 

But, it is ridiculous to judge him on his past, since in his past, he has always made the SMART move. He's never been in a situation where he has had players that are worth the money they are asking for, therefore, you cannot judge him on it. 

I do believe Sterling will shell out the money to keep the guys. Yes, Im putting faith into the man, when he hasn't exactly proven to deserve it. 

If Sterling were so cheap, why would he deal a guy on his rookie contract for a player that is a proven all star, and that is up for FA in a year(Elton Brand)?
Why would he then the next year, turn around and trade another guy on his rookie contract, who happens to be one of the most popular players in the league(he brings in a ton of money, and is paid cheap), for a guy who is up for FA now(Miles for Miller)?

If Sterling wasn't ready to pay guys, he would not have made these deals. These deals mean as much to signing players as anything he has done in the past.

If Sterling breaks this team up, believe me, I will be the first to unload on the guy.

But Im not gonna criticize the guy just because the media and misinformed fans do.


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## JOHNNY_BRAVisimO (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>RD</b>!
> 
> 
> It's neither blind nor stupid my friend.
> ...


well what more can i say? i have to congradulate you on a post well done, i guess the only thing we can do now is wait and see


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## Bully (Jul 15, 2002)

RD is right on (in agreeing with me). While Sterling has never paid the big bucks, he has never overpaid for mediocore talent. His history he has shown he has made all the right moves regarding Manning, Mo Taylor, Ron Harper - as I believe someone notes, Derek Anderson may have been worth a decent contract, but he had no interest in staying. 

Again, there really should be no arguement here. To argue, is to say the Clippers should be paying Mo Taylor 10 mil a year right now - which would obviously be idiotic. I thought my original point was quite clear - I don't want to be a fan of a team that pays Alan Houston 100 mil when he is basically done - still decent, but his best years are behind him.

Lets see how things go down these next two months. All reports confirm the Clips are talking to Kandi and Brand and I am hopeful they will sign one or both before the October deadline. If they sign neither, that will be a bad sign, but not a catastrophic one. The Clips will still very likely be in a position to offer more than money than any other team to all of their potential free agents next year. Yes, there will be more teams with more room to spend, but there are other top flight FA's available and, like most years, 80% - 95% of the teams have there own problems/FA's to worry about. The biggest concern has to be Kandy - while there is debate re how much he deserves, there is no question he is their one player other teams will structure themselves specifically to make him a big offer - true/capable centers in the NBA are too hot a commodity. True/capable centers always seem to get offered way more than they deserve - see Ilgauskas +.

Miller and Odom should be wait and see guys - for both sides. Odom needs to prove him self on and off the court and Miller needs to know (and to prove) if he is good fit here.

There is no question that the Clips have the biggest stockpile of young talent in the league - especially with the additions of Wilcox, Jaric and Ely - to a group that lost none of their young studs - hopefully we can say that next year.

Clipper fans - keep the faith. 

Bully


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

One thing you have to keep in mind is that when they signed their contracts guys like Baker and Big Z were no-brainers for the max. They've been slowed down by depression, weight problems and injuries. 

Guys like Derick Coleman, Penny Hardaway and Kenny Anderson were predicted to have just as bright of futures as Brand, LO and Miller are today.

Also would you rather have a Houston, Baker or Big Z contract on your team or fail to re-sign everyone of your 1st round draft in the last 10 years?


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## Bully (Jul 15, 2002)

Your point is well taken. 

But on the same point, every major publication and especially the L.A. Times blasted the Clippers for not giving Mo Taylor the max. The reasons for not giving him the max were quite clear - a starting power forward who doesn't rebound well (averaged just over 5 at the time) was not worth it. Everyone else said he is your up'n coming young talent - you have to sign him. In conclusion, Sterling was right and everyone else was wrong (including Baylor) who would have given the farm away. 

Was Baker worth the max when they gave it to me - I think that is debatable ? Was Croshere's ? Not. Was Houston worth the max when they gave it to him - I know I blasted the Knicks on this site after that move - many other publications did as well. Many of which pointed out that aging #2 guards (at Houstons age) were a very poor investment - based on recent "like" players. 

I don't blame the Clippers for being overly cautious about paying the big bucks - one mistake now can be a mistake that hurts your team for 5-7 years. 

Bully


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## Ambidextrous (Aug 27, 2002)

If anything the players are underpaid!


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Bully</b>!
> Your point is well taken.
> 
> But on the same point, every major publication and especially the L.A. Times blasted the Clippers for not giving Mo Taylor the max. The reasons for not giving him the max were quite clear - a starting power forward who doesn't rebound well (averaged just over 5 at the time) was not worth it. Everyone else said he is your up'n coming young talent - you have to sign him. In conclusion, Sterling was right and everyone else was wrong (including Baylor) who would have given the farm away.


Well did Sterling really not give Taylor the max because his shrewd basketball insight told him he wasn't worth it or because he didn't want to pay him that kind of money? If it's the former perhaps he should replace Baylor as the GM. It's not just the max, he didn't him offer him anything close to an acceptable deal, and botched a mid-season trade to the Knicks when it was clear he wouldn't resign.



> Was Baker worth the max when they gave it to me - I think that is debatable ?


If a 6'11" post player that can get you 20-10 isn't worth the max than who is? True he had an off-season the year before he signed the deal but so has Odom.



> Was Croshere's ? Not.


He's not being paid the max.



> Was Houston worth the max when they gave it to him - I know I blasted the Knicks on this site after that move - many other publications did as well. Many of which pointed out that aging #2 guards (at Houstons age) were a very poor investment - based on recent "like" players.
> 
> I don't blame the Clippers for being overly cautious about paying the big bucks - one mistake now can be a mistake that hurts your team for 5-7 years.
> 
> Bully


No Houston wasn't worth the max, but IMO the Knicks front office is still better than the Clippers in terms of how they deal with contracts. Perhaps the Clippers should take more risks so they make the playoffs more than once every half-decade.


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## Bully (Jul 15, 2002)

*Taylor*

Taylor was offered 50 mil by Sterling per the L.A. Times - Mo declined.

Bully


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