# If the NBA played more like FIBA would it be more exciting/would you watch it more??



## kirkisgod (Jul 25, 2005)

As has always been suspected, the NBA focuses more on 1 on 1 play, which to me is not REAL basketball. I LOVE the way Greece played the game. If it was two different teams from unknown countries, I would definitely have been cheering for the players representing Greece, just because of how they play the game. Well, if the NBA were more like FIBA would you watch it more?


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## L (Sep 20, 2005)

No. Id rather watch the NBA than the FIBA play.


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## UMfan83 (Jan 15, 2003)

*Re: If the NBA played more like FIBA would it be more exciting/would you watch it mor*

Yes. The NBA goes in phases, and I am not particularly fond of this superstar shoot first NBA. I will continue to prefer to watch the NBA because its where my roots are, and I will eternally be committed to this league, but there is no doubt in my mind that the game can be improved.


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## gamadict (Jul 28, 2002)

*Re: If the NBA played more like FIBA would it be more exciting/would you watch it mor*

The NBA with FIBA rules would be excruciating. I'd probably stop watching basketball


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## T.Shock (Feb 11, 2003)

Depends. I'm a big fan of college basketball and find the 1-on-1, let's allow traveling, NBA style horrendously boring. FIBA ball is more college style. People actually making jump shots, teams that have been together a long time and can run an offense to perfection, and good man-to-man and help defense. I'd watch FIBA over NBA anyday.


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

*Re: If the NBA played more like FIBA would it be more exciting/would you watch it mor*



gamadict said:


> The NBA with FIBA rules would be excruciating. I'd probably stop watching basketball


Ditto.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

I like Fiba and would love to see a more team oriented game in the NBA it seems like thats what they are moving towards with teams like the Bulls. But no, I watch so much NBA that I don't think I could watch anymore even if they had strippers...


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

American sports leagues go out of their way to severely punish anyone who dares to criticize the officials because they are desperately afraid of the public losing faith in the integrity of their product.The main reason that FIBA is so difficult for AMerican players is that they are accustomed to relatively coherent and competent officiation.The FIBA rules are bad and the way they are interpretted is horrible.

It's been like this as long as anyone can remember and it's the same way for everyone.If the refs sucked this bad in one game out of ten then you'd think they were corrupt.WHen the refs suck that badly in ten games out of ten then you have to think that FIBA is corrupt.It's hard for me to see how we should emulate an organization that can't convince anyone anywhere in the world that it's not completely crooked.Instead of people crying that we should bring back MJ,Magic and Bird they should be shouting out for Mahorn,Laimbeer and Rodman.Those guys would be perfect for this game.


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## RoRo (Aug 21, 2002)

ace20004u said:


> I like Fiba and would love to see a more team oriented game in the NBA it seems like thats what they are moving towards with teams like the Bulls. But no, I watch so much NBA that I don't think I could watch anymore even if they had strippers...


hehe good answer 

i haven't even watched one full season of FIBA basketball. but between college and nba i get enough style contrast and i like both tbh.


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## Bullsky (Jun 11, 2006)

kirkisgod said:


> As has always been suspected, the NBA focuses more on 1 on 1 play, which to me is not REAL basketball.


Ding ding ding. Dead on. I only watch the Bulls. I don't focus on the other NBA teams. I like pure basketball, with the use of teamwork. The Bulls are one of FEW NBA teams that still do that, and I love it. Thats also why I like the college game and the WNBA.

But yes, I'd like the Fiba style better. It's more interesting.


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

i guess i'm in the (small) minority, but watching FIBA rules makes me want to slit my wrists.

give me the NBA all day, everyday and twice on sundays.


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## Hustle (Dec 17, 2003)

*Re: If the NBA played more like FIBA would it be more exciting/would you watch it mor*

I haven't seen enough FIBA to say. I don't like the triangle lane in FIBA.
I like NCAA brand basketball more though, less one on one, more Hustle, less ticky tack fouls. I would unquestionably say I like the NBA over FIBA rules hands down if the league hadn't decided a few years back to make any and all contact a foul, seems like there is a whistle every other possession now a days. It's nice that our Bulls play more of a team game, I consider Wade the most exciting guy in the NBA and yet the Heat are not very fun to watch for me, so maybe I would go FIBA if I knew better.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

*Re: If the NBA played more like FIBA would it be more exciting/would you watch it mor*

NBA everyday.


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## McBulls (Apr 28, 2005)

I like to see games where the plays and strategy a coach chooses matter, because as a fan I put myself in the coaches seat.

I don't care much for the aspects of NBA rules and customs that emphasize one-on-one play over team play or oversell the importance of individual performances of stars and de-emphasize the importance of teamwork. 

I find the one-pass and shoot offense offensive, and hand-waving all-star-game defense unworthy of being watched.

I'm for rules that reduce foul shooting and the importance of Shaq-like big men. The only thing more boring than a back-down postup play is watching someone shoot free throws. Removing most restrictions on zone defenses and widening lanes should help.

I don't know if this happens in FIBA play or not, but I absolutely detest preferential treatment of "stars" by officials and unfair treatment of rookies and other unloved players. It's the one thing that could end up driving me away from the game altogether.

So, although it's not perfect, and I haven't watched much of it, all-in-all I'd prefer to see NBA players play with many of the FIBA rules and customs.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

*Re: If the NBA played more like FIBA would it be more exciting/would you watch it mor*

NBA. I value the individual over the collective, and enjoy seeing the individual triumph over the collective in the NBA. Seeing a player single-handledly dismantle a good team is a thing of beauty.

Wade vs. Lebron this year was better than any other regular season game last year.

Have you all actually watched FIBA basketball? It's not entertaining. It's basically college basketball without the emotion and a little better shooting.

If you want to watch FIBA basketball get NBA TV, they show their games and major tournaments all the time, especially in the summer. It's not as as good as a regular season NBA game.


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## T.Shock (Feb 11, 2003)

*Re: If the NBA played more like FIBA would it be more exciting/would you watch it mor*



futuristxen said:


> NBA. I value the individual over the collective, and enjoy seeing the individual triumph over the collective in the NBA. Seeing a player single-handledly dismantle a good team is a thing of beauty.
> 
> Wade vs. Lebron this year was better than any other regular season game last year.
> 
> ...


Last time I checked basketball is a team sport. Or was there a memo passed around letting everybody know that the NBA can now be considered a 1-on-1 sports entertainment hybrid league? Because I must have not gotten that memo.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

*Re: If the NBA played more like FIBA would it be more exciting/would you watch it mor*



T.Shock said:


> Last time I checked basketball is a team sport. Or was there a memo passed around letting everybody know that the NBA can now be considered a 1-on-1 sports entertainment hybrid league? Because I must have not gotten that memo.



Awww. That's so precious. Did you write this in between viewings of Hoosiers? NBA basketball hasn't been a "team" sport in the full on sense in quite some time. At least 20 years. It's not 1 on 1 though. It's 1 on 3, 1 on 4. In the NBA it's the superstar and his tools. In the NBA it's about the supporting cast. They are there to accentuate the stars performance, not to get in the way of it, like in FIBA basketball.

It's how a superstar uses the tools around him that defines how great he can become.

To use a comicbook reference, it's a lot like the diffrence between the JLA and the actual books on their own. I don't know if you are a big fan of JLA or not, but as a super team, like say the Avengers, they are very powerful, but also very ineffectual. The JSA or in Marvel the Fantastic Four are way more effective. Putting together these all-star teams is like watching the JLA. It's fun for the star studdeness of it. But at the end of the day, Batman is at his best in Detective Comics, Superman in Action Comics, Spiderman in Amazing Spiderman, Captain America in his own book--and they are amazing in those books and those characters have created some of the best moments in comic book history, it's what I read for. But take apart the JSA or Fantastic Four, and none of those guys can carry a book, no matter how hard they try.

So you're asking me if at the end of the day I'd rather read JSA or Detective comics, and I'd rather read Detective Comics.

Focusing on a single star allows a pathos to develop. It allows us to to more closesly study ourselves. Whereas in these team first enviroments, we lose a lot of that individuality. It becomes caracture. Look at how Batman is in JLA. They pretty much just stereotype him as a paranoid freakhead. Whereas in his own book, you get more of the guilt, the pathos, the detective skills--you can appreciate his nuances better.


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## McBulls (Apr 28, 2005)

*Re: If the NBA played more like FIBA would it be more exciting/would you watch it mor*



futuristxen said:


> Awww. That's so precious. Did you write this in between viewings of Hoosiers? NBA basketball hasn't been a "team" sport in the full on sense in quite some time. At least 20 years. It's not 1 on 1 though. It's 1 on 3, 1 on 4. In the NBA it's the superstar and his tools. In the NBA it's about the supporting cast. They are there to accentuate the stars performance, not to get in the way of it, like in FIBA basketball.
> 
> It's how a superstar uses the tools around him that defines how great he can become.
> 
> ...


Bet you like professional wrestling. Plenty of pathos and comic book similes there.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

*Re: If the NBA played more like FIBA would it be more exciting/would you watch it mor*



McBulls said:


> Bet you like professional wrestling. Plenty of pathos and comic book similes there.


Don't watch professional wrestling. But yeah, you can make the same analogies across to any art. I consider basketball and soccer closer to performance art than any other sport. Most sports are pretty faceless and allow little in the way of creativity by their very nature. Both basketball and soccer allow for that artistic expression.

People make a mistake in my opinion only looking at the bottom line of wins and losses. It doesn't really matter if you win or lose, it's how you play the game. It's like in the Barcelona Olympics when that guy ripped his hamstring but finished the race. That was sporting brilliance. I don't know or care who won the race, but I'll always remember that man's father coming down and helping him finish the race. Sports at their best are about individual superhuman brilliance that expands our range of what is possible. It's more than a game to me.


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## thebullybully (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: If the NBA played more like FIBA would it be more exciting/would you watch it mor*



futuristxen said:


> Both basketball and soccer allow for that artistic expression.


You can have James and Wade's artistic expression. I myself wanted to punch them once for each dunk they missed being artistic instead of fundamental.


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

Rodman,Mahorn and Laimbeer would all make their comebacks.You'd end up with a lot of similar players in the league just to specialize in dirty play.Probably at least two fights a week like it used to be in the NBA too.Laimbeer would have been a superstar in Europe,but of course you got away with the same stuff in the NBA back then.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

*Re: If the NBA played more like FIBA would it be more exciting/would you watch it mor*

Let me explain for those who refuse to understand why FIBA and the NBA are not the same.

You can't expect the same kind of motivation that are prevalent with non-USA teams with the USA team. They are always the hunted. To consistently beat back challenges you need an alpha male with an unyielding passion (i.e. a Kobe) to best his opponents. 

However, in the NBA this is what these guys are playing for. They are playing for their paychecks. In these other events, they would be playing for the love of this country. Haven't you people realized by now that the athletes don't have some unending love for this country, which is justified simply from the foolish fan reaction and media treatment. 

We don't like that basketball players make more money then us, are younger than us, have better bodies, better women, and thousands (or even million) of adoring fans. Those teams are cohesive because they want to win for their countries. These guys don't have the same kind of yearning that Joe Loser has, because Joe Loser probably also cares about how the Star Spangled Banner is sung or who you voted for? 

Once Americans realize it's not your God given right to win every single time (regardless of how much money you make) then they will enjoy the journey. Why do you want USA to win so badly? So you can brag about something you had no part in? It's like rooting for the Bulls. Why do you root for them so badly, only to disparage when players don't play well?

Are you a fan of the game itself or are you a fan of some kind of arbitrary standard such as proximity? I root for the Lakers, Clippers and Kings and in every single respect it has to do with players I enjoy watching. Maybe if I owned a team, I'd care more about a team, but unless you really care about bragging rights, if you're a fan of the game you'd only care about watching good basketball.

In which instance you wouldn't care who won or loss as long as you enjoyed the contest.


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## T.Shock (Feb 11, 2003)

*Re: If the NBA played more like FIBA would it be more exciting/would you watch it mor*




futuristxen said:


> Awww. That's so precious. Did you write this in between viewings of Hoosiers? NBA basketball hasn't been a "team" sport in the full on sense in quite some time. At least 20 years. It's not 1 on 1 though. It's 1 on 3, 1 on 4. In the NBA it's the superstar and his tools. In the NBA it's about the supporting cast. They are there to accentuate the stars performance, not to get in the way of it, like in FIBA basketball.
> 
> It's how a superstar uses the tools around him that defines how great he can become.
> 
> ...


Though I am aware of your arrogance about your intelligence or knowledge of seemingly everything, do not patronize or insult me. Your caustic comments have no validity. The Hoosiers joke is tired and cliched. Because I like to watch team basketball, Hoosiers is my all-time favorite movie. Predictable. 

Now, your comic book argument was interesting but IMO you made an incorrect analogy. If we use the example of the JLA as a basketball team, what I'm saying is that a JLA where Superman fights everybody by himself is boring and usually results in Superman getting defeated. Now when everybody else has importance (though not equal importance) and Superman allows his teammates to assist him in his goal, their success rate improves. 

You are correct about Batman being more interesting in his own book, but I do not feel connection to any particular player unless they happen to be on my favorite team. People love teams and not players. I refuse to believe that we can justify basketball de-evolving into a 1-on-5 spectacle by determining the celebration of the individual because we find the individual more interesting. If that were true, sports like swimming, wrestling, and track would be our most popular sports. Basketball is based on 5 guys working in unison to defeat 5 other guys.


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## katman17 (Jul 12, 2004)

I definitely like watching the FIBA style of basketball, and the reason why i feel USA lost is David Stern's NBA. Players have become so spoiled and they have adapted their game to that style of game. Players are so used to driving to the hoop and getting a foul called every stinking time. David Stern really needs to pay attention to NCAA and FIBA because this is basketball. Teams playing as a TEAM, teams running PLAYS, teams being UNSELFISH, and teams not looking to the refs to bail them out everytime. If you watched the game, you would see that the 1 on 1 does not work anywhere other than the NBA (and maybe STREETBALL). When a player goes one on one, they dont get bailed out by weak foul, they actually get offensive fouls called on them when they lower their shoulder. THe James', Wades', Anthonys' all are players that depend on going to the rim and getting 3 point plays or scoring at the free throw line, that is not basketball!

Greece manhandled USA today and USA looked lost. USA did not play help defense and couldnt defend the same play that Greece ran all game long, the PICK AND ROLL. I could not believe how open Greece was all game long, GREECE deserved that game and USA did not play the way they needed to to win the game.

NCAA and FIBA is the way NBA should adapt to, STERN PAY ATTENTION!!!

Also, i think the NBA TEAM that wins the Championship should be the team that goes to FIBA and olympics, they have chemistry and they earned the right to compete against other countries best teams. JUST MY 2 CENTS


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## Bullsky (Jun 11, 2006)

katman17 said:


> I definitely like watching the FIBA style of basketball, and the reason why i feel USA lost is David Stern's NBA. Players have become so spoiled and they have adapted their game to that style of game. Players are so used to driving to the hoop and getting a foul called every stinking time. David Stern really needs to pay attention to NCAA and FIBA because this is basketball. Teams playing as a TEAM, teams running PLAYS, teams being UNSELFISH, and teams not looking to the refs to bail them out everytime. If you watched the game, you would see that the 1 on 1 does not work anywhere other than the NBA (and maybe STREETBALL). When a player goes one on one, they dont get bailed out by weak foul, they actually get offensive fouls called on them when they lower their shoulder. THe James', Wades', Anthonys' all are players that depend on going to the rim and getting 3 point plays or scoring at the free throw line, that is not basketball!


X_____________

Cosign!



katman17 said:


> Greece manhandled USA today and USA looked lost. USA did not play help defense and couldnt defend the same play that Greece ran all game long, the PICK AND ROLL. I could not believe how open Greece was all game long, GREECE deserved that game and USA did not play the way they needed to to win the game.


It seemed like they didnt realized how poorly they played until the buzzer sounded and the Greeks were dancing around. Thats when the shock and awe began.



katman17 said:


> Also, i think the NBA TEAM that wins the Championship should be the team that goes to FIBA and olympics, they have chemistry and they earned the right to compete against other countries best teams. JUST MY 2 CENTS


Interesting idea. However, lets say Dallas won, how good would they be without Dirk? How good would Phoenix be without Nash? That's the only problem I see in that. Plus, Shaq's game doesn't fit the Euro style *at all*.


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## mr.ankle20 (Mar 7, 2004)

I hate the fiba rules and the ref are worse then the nba refs, Fiba Refs are Biased


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## katman17 (Jul 12, 2004)

Very good point on Dallas not having Dirk, but maybe that team would have the opportunity to pick up someone to take his place, someone they feel can fit in with their team chemistry (i'm sure there are going to be negative responses to that like play stealing etc). 

But if they went to the FIBA championships, they would not have to do preseason to get the extra rest if they choose, or somthing like that. I just think teams need chemistry to play against internation teams, and teams playing together for at least a 82 game season plus playoffs should have chemistry.


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## katman17 (Jul 12, 2004)

FIBA REFS STINK? So you must have thought that the players were being fouled and the ref's werent calling it? Thats what the NBA has done to its fans, made them spoiled as well. NCAA and FIBA is like watching NBA in the late 80's when it was FUN to watch. Players giving hard fouls, no stupid handcheck fouls, teams playing as a team...yea the good ol days.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

How can you expect people to play as teams and for guys to go play on the national team when these guys are grown men and they decide what they want to do? You can't force people to give a crap about Team USA. An NBA champ will have players decline playing in this, because they want a summer break as well. 

Some of you are just not being realistic. Stern is not going to cut off money for his league to win these international competitions. That's not where the NBA makes money.

Maybe if you played the American players they would do it. And don't go off on this tangent about that's what's wrong with athletes. This is capitalism and that's why people want to get paid. Pride is what ruins lives.


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## katman17 (Jul 12, 2004)

HKF, i'm going to have to disagree with you, i dont think (and it is just my opinion) that players would decline if it is with their own team. I'm sure their would be some players upset about going, but if you take out the preseason for them to rest I dont think they would so against it. Like I said, i just threw this idea out there, no reason to get all crazy. Just one of my many reasons on why TEAM USA has a hard time competing in World Championship games against tougher teams.


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

FIBA every day of the week, and twice on Sundays. 

You might find FIBA basketball a bit boring on NBA TV, because we are used to better individual talent and don't know as much about the players/teams over there. 

But if NBA talent collectively migrated to Europe? I bet you'd watch it then! 

The real question here is whether you would like to watch the Shaq/Kobe Lakers teams or the Steve Nash-led Suns. Pose the question as such, and you know how most fans are going to answer...


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

I guess different strokes for different folks. I enjoy watching a Kobe Bryant-led Lakers team play more than I enjoy watching the Suns. The teams in FIBA don't all play like the Suns, why do we try to pretend they do?


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## gamadict (Jul 28, 2002)

*Re: If the NBA played more like FIBA would it be more exciting/would you watch it mor*

From what I've seen, international teams basically foul anytime anything approaching a fast break occurs. In the France/Nigeria game, France once had 4 guys back and they still took the foul.

I don't think you're going to find electrifying uptempo basketball in most FIBA leagues


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## katman17 (Jul 12, 2004)

You have to do everything you can to win games, NCAA is the same way, its smart to foul someone to stop a fast break layup simple as that. If you like watching dunking and one on one basketball, then NBA is great, dont get me wrong, i watch a lot of NBA, but all the stops to shoot free throws on weak hand check fouls really make it hard to watch sometimes


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## Bullsky (Jun 11, 2006)

katman17 said:


> You have to do everything you can to win games, NCAA is the same way, its smart to foul someone to stop a fast break layup simple as that. If you like watching dunking and one on one basketball, then NBA is great, dont get me wrong, i watch a lot of NBA, but all the stops to shoot free throws on weak hand check fouls really make it hard to watch sometimes


Again, I agree. Personally, non stop dunking and one on one skills dont impress me.


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## gamadict (Jul 28, 2002)

*Re: If the NBA played more like FIBA would it be more exciting/would you watch it mor*

It's might be effective, who knows. I think it's probably excessive. But what's effective basketball isn't necessarily good basketball. Spectators don't want to watch guys intentionally hacking eachother, players probably don't like playing like that. 50ish years ago standing some huge guy right under the basket the entire time was effective, but it didn't make for an especially good game, so we have the lane. 50ish years ago passing the ball around for 10 minutes at a time was effective for underdogs, but it made for a putrid game, so we have the shot clock. And so on.

In FIBA ball, packing the lane and jacking lots of threes is effective, but I don't find it to be particularly good basketball. It turns a vigorous, athletic game into a precise technical contest. The NBA makes an effort to actually encourage athletic, entertaining play, and I think that's a good thing. I think you'll see other pro leagues adopt NBA-style measures to open up the game before you'll see the NBA adopt FIBA-style measures for whatever reason, because they're as concerned with presenting an enjoyable game as the NBA is.


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## katman17 (Jul 12, 2004)

Actually the Greeks today didnt win just because of jacking 3's all game, the pick and roll (simple basketball) was the reason. And Baby Shaq and the Greeks were driving dishing, some dunking, playing great D, it was great to watch and as a fan of basketball I would love to watch this style in the NBA!


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## T.Shock (Feb 11, 2003)

katman17 said:


> Actually the Greeks today didnt win just because of jacking 3's all game, the pick and roll (simple basketball) was the reason. And Baby Shaq and the Greeks were driving dishing, some dunking, playing great D, it was great to watch and as a fan of basketball I would love to watch this style in the NBA!


Ding ding ding. I guarantee that in a regular season NBA game you see more bad threes than you do in an average FIBA or European contest. You also see more offensive sets, better jump shooting, solid man-to-man and even better team defense. I don't watch NBA games anymore, the games are incredibly boring. I'd prefer a huge Big East matchup on a Monday night on ESPN with great crowds, good team basketball, and a team that's been together and has developed cohesiveness on both the offensive and defensive ends to a Lakers-Suns matchup on a Thursday night where Kobe goes 11-30 and half the other Lakers are jogging up court because the Suns are up 25 in the 3rd Quarter.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

*Re: If the NBA played more like FIBA would it be more exciting/would you watch it mor*



HKF said:


> I guess different strokes for different folks. I enjoy watching a Kobe Bryant-led Lakers team play more than I enjoy watching the Suns.


The ratings back you up. And how many people even lifelong lakers haters like myself were rooting for Kobe to upset the Suns in the first round? I think everyone was incredibly let down that the Lakers didn't pull it off.

And I agree with the point about thinking most euro teams play like the suns. There's some. About as many as there are in the NBA. But a lot of them play the style we saw in the world championship. 70 point hack fests. Relying entirely on the 3 point shot to get in and out of games. If NBA basketball relies too much on the dunk, FIBA basketball relies too heavily on the 3. There are exceptions. 

Another question against people who hate the NBA but love euro basket--do you guys hate post play? Because FIBA rules are anti-post play. It's pretty much turn and face basketball. I suspect many of you don't see the beauty of Tim Duncan's footwork. The ****ing Dream Shake! Seeing a 400 pound Shaq spinning on people with the balance of a small forward. Mchale in the post.

In FIBA it's a bunch of Mark Eaton freakazoids running around. Being led by Damon Stoudamire circa rookie year knock offs.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

How many folks would vote differently if the Bulls had MJ and Pip in their primes again?


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

I would prefer some kind of inbetween. It does get old when games are 1 on 1 between superstars and everyone else is there to set good screens and make a layup when called upon. I do enjoy the individuality of the game though, it just needs better context.


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## Mr. Hobbes (Jul 1, 2005)

In the NBA, there are players who take over situations. Kobe's scoring output, T-Mac's 13 in 35, Mourning shutting down every shot attempt around the rim. Doesn't happen is FIBA. And also, FIBA plays that ***** zone defense. It would make good defenders in the NBA useless.


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

The college game is vastly superior to either structurally.FIBA really shouldn't be compared to the college game because it's been moved so far away from the roots of the game and it's just a botched job of whatever they are trying to do.The biggest problem is that the referees don't understand the principle of gaining an advantage and they officiate arbitrarily without enforcing the spirit of the rules like is basically the case in the NCAA.

It really makes you appreciate how good NCAA refs really are.Those guys make mistakes like anyone else,but they understand what the rules are and how to interpret them correctly.Of course I reserve the right to call them names and challenge their integrity at any future date when I might have a change of opinion.


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## Hustle (Dec 17, 2003)

*Re: If the NBA played more like FIBA would it be more exciting/would you watch it mor*

Losing in FIBA and the Olympics is not good for the NBA. Why would a europeon pay for NBA league pass when they have people from their own countries playing better basketball, after you see so many dunk competitions and allstar games, good basketball becomes more and more entertaining. Our guys are more athletic, but beyond that? International teams have shooters too, and overall have better fundamentals. With the popularity of basketball growing in other countries(mainly in europe) and the talent gap closing, it's only a matter of time before they will have money to compete with the NBA for players, it's already happening with lower teir players. Stern should be concerned.


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## mgolding (Jul 20, 2002)

*Re: If the NBA played more like FIBA would it be more exciting/would you watch it mor*

I think the fundamental problem with the NBA is that teams are owned by business people. Business people want profits. To maximise profit the NBA has focused on selling superstars and not developing the game. Its easier to sell individuals doing the spectacular than the team doing the little things, or as we call them in Australia, the 1 percenters. Highlight clips of NBA games look amazing. The reality of the half court game can be painful. The low post game blows but it just happens to effective. Referees paying attention to who the fouls are being called on and not just whether there was a by the rule book foul is one of the most flawed facets to any sporting competition I have ever known. Then the fact that it is accepted is just mind boggling.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

*Re: If the NBA played more like FIBA would it be more exciting/would you watch it mor*



Hustle said:


> Losing in FIBA and the Olympics is not good for the NBA. Why would a europeon pay for NBA league pass when they have people from their own countries playing better basketball, after you see so many dunk competitions and allstar games, good basketball becomes more and more entertaining. Our guys are more athletic, but beyond that? International teams have shooters too, and overall have better fundamentals. With the popularity of basketball growing in other countries(mainly in europe) and the talent gap closing, it's only a matter of time before they will have money to compete with the NBA for players, it's already happening with lower teir players. Stern should be concerned.


This is the problem. This is not a whole country. These are 12 guys on each side playing. There is a reason why journeymen NBA guys go over to Europe and still throw up 20 ppg. It's nationalism. USA goes 8-1, but the NBA sucks. Why are people expecting domination in a single elimination tournament? Have you ever played competitive basketball? It's not easy being the favorite.

And they will never have the money to compete with the NBA, as long as soccer dominates Europe. Look at how much our athletes are paid in comparison. Are athletes are individual corporations. You don't see that in Europe unless you're talking about Beckham, Ronaldinho and company.

As for Europeans with more fundamentals, why do these guys suck so bad in the NBA? Jiri Welsch, Skita, Nachbar, Planninic, Vujacic, Pavlovic, Lampe. These guys didn't look so great fundamentally. 

Personal Attack


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## Hustle (Dec 17, 2003)

*Re: If the NBA played more like FIBA would it be more exciting/would you watch it mor*



HKF said:


> This is the problem. This is not a whole country. These are 12 guys on each side playing. There is a reason why journeymen NBA guys go over to Europe and still throw up 20 ppg. It's nationalism.


I have no idea what that means.


> USA goes 8-1, but the NBA sucks. Why are people expecting domination in a single elimination tournament? Have you ever played competitive basketball? It's not easy being the favorite.


You completly missed my point. Jordan and the dream team playing and dominating the Olympics is one of the biggest reasons that basketball has quickly became the world's #2 sport, and why the NBA blew up internationally. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I bet they get to watch a whole lot more FIBA games than NBA. So their perception would be the gap is significantly closer than it probably really is.

If the revenue that people from other countries spend on the NBA was spent in europe instead their basketball market would benefit. Even if they don't Could it be enough for mid-level type players to go over there, I bet so. Like you said journeymen are going over there and dominating and some are making multimillions, why wouldn't they throw in a few extra million to get a quality NBA guy that would put there teams over the top. 


> And they will never have the money to compete with the NBA, as long as soccer dominates Europe. Look at how much our athletes are paid in comparison. Are athletes are individual corporations. You don't see that in Europe unless you're talking about Beckham, Ronaldinho and company.


In america there is 4 large market sports, why can't europe support 2. 


> As for Europeans with more fundamentals, why do these guys suck so bad in the NBA? Jiri Welsch, Skita, Nachbar, Planninic, Vujacic, Pavlovic, Lampe. These guys didn't look so great fundamentally.


It's not because of their fundementals, it's because they are physically no where near the americans.
I know this 50 year old guy with some killer fundamentals, much more than I, but I school him everytime.



> Think before you speak because you didn't really say anything of value above.


Well think about this, some guys in europe already make multi-millions a year, max contracts in the NBA start at 13M, whether than a team in Germany paying 10M for a team, they could go the NBA route and give all that and a little more to Dirk, and would probably benefit from it. I bet a whole lot more Greeks will be interested in watching their greek players next year, and a bit less interested in the NBA.


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## Hustle (Dec 17, 2003)

*Re: If the NBA played more like FIBA would it be more exciting/would you watch it mor*



HKF said:


> Again you can't force someone to have national pride in wanting to represent Team USA. Of course a professional team is going to be owned by business people. How else would it be run? I mean damn, simpletons.


Between this and telling me to think before I post I suggest you stop talking stuff, I can't even understand half of your posts, for instance your reponse to this guys post makes no sense.


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## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

FIBA to me is only slightly better than College Basketball, which is unwatchable. Players sitting in the paint on D while the opposition jacks up 3s all the time is not what I would describe as fun. Only a couple of international teams is the exception. Not to mention the horrific officiating and how the moment there's a threat of a fastbreak they just pull your jersey and stop the game. And I don't buy this "international players are more fundamental" talk at all.


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## katman17 (Jul 12, 2004)

Why do people insist on saying that FIBA is all shooting. I completely disagree, these comments are totally wrong. I have watched EURO ball and FIBA a lot and I dont see it as just "jacking" threes. These teams run pick and rolls, backdoor cuts, give and go's more than shooting 3's. They shoot the threes when they are open but they look at easy buckets first. They post up their big men, they run off picks all the time and i see layups, dunks a lot in these games. They show the 3D's of basketball a lot as well DRIVE DRAW and DISH. Its beautiful basketball and I love watching this style of game, i love watching the bulls offense for the same reason, they play basketball right. The Cavs and Lakers have 1 star that teammates just step aside and let their "star" do whatever he wants and shoots without any kind of offense, thats NOT basketball! Sure its "fun" to watch on occassion but for a whole game? I dont think so!


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## bullsville (Jan 23, 2005)

The FIBA game is "all outside shooting", but the Greeks beat us by scoring 50 points in the paint?

The two don't add up, sorry.


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## bullsville (Jan 23, 2005)

Hinrich On FIBA Basketball 

FIBA: Did you have any problem with the rules, the shorter three-point line and the other differences? 

Hinrich: No not really that was all fine. It's just that *the international game is more based on team play and ball movement*

And yes, Hoosiers is one of my favorite movies of all time.


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## Bulls_Bulls_Bulls! (Jun 10, 2003)

Nobody has yet mentioned the one obvious difference: 

The fundamental rule of American sports, which the NBA unfortunately adheres to: every dead ball is a potential TV timeout. Thankfully, it's not as bad as the NFL, which is downright unwatchable and wretched and has been for some time now(I believe that "Every Dead Ball a Potential TV Timeout", the founding, essential principle of the NFL in the modern era, is engraved on Pete Rozelle's tombstone).

FIBA: played commerical free for each qwarter, i.e.,the game is played continuously, free and flowing the game does not take second fiddle to the needs of commerical TV.

It's shameful what television has done to American sports, in that respect, even to basketball, the greatest of American sports.


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## mgolding (Jul 20, 2002)

*Re: If the NBA played more like FIBA would it be more exciting/would you watch it mor*



HKF said:


> Of course a professional team is going to be owned by business people. How else would it be run? I mean damn, simpletons.


Simpletons? There are plenty of professional sporting leagues around the world where the ownership is held by the clubs members, and control is given to a board. All Australian sports leagues. We are talking about leagues that have 100 000 people going to games at $30 per person. These aren't peanuts.

Don't confuse your own ignorance for others being simple.


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## jordan0386 (Jul 4, 2006)

nope...there doesnt seem to be an intentional foul rule in FIBA...so that would mean less fast breaks...basically killing anything to watch other than pure jumpshots

no thanks


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## notting_hill (Dec 18, 2005)

Being someone from Europe and not watching Euroleague or Uleb gives you the answer I feel. Believe me, there may be someone who got really affected with the pay some European teams play but it becomes boring after a while.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

I definitley like FIBA. I'm tired of Wade lowering his shoulder and getting the foul call all the time. It gets a bit ridiculous and the game degenerates into a "who can draw more fouls and get to the line" contest rather than basketball.

Incidentally,

I have always advocated sending our NBA finals team to represent us. If someone can't go replace them with the next best available player. Maybe Nowitski is replaced with Brand or someone else? Someone from another board the other day suggested we send the two starting units for our final teams and I really like that idea. Of course we would have to sub some players too. But throw squad 1 at them for Q1, squad 2 for Q2, etc...

The whole reason the US keeps losing in international play is because we are playing against teams who are more team oriented to begin with and then they have the luxury of playing together for years and years while we are sending a mish mash of talent that learns to play together in 3 weeks...it makes it easy to exploit us.


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## L (Sep 20, 2005)

ace20004u said:


> I definitley like FIBA. I'm tired of Wade lowering his shoulder and getting the foul call all the time. It gets a bit ridiculous and the game degenerates into a "who can draw more fouls and get to the line" contest rather than basketball.
> 
> Incidentally,
> 
> ...


Sending the champs would be great, but you must also remember that players want to relax before training camp. I doubt the Heat would want Shaq and Zo to play over the summer.


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## Hustle (Dec 17, 2003)

*Re: If the NBA played more like FIBA would it be more exciting/would you watch it mor*



jordan0386 said:


> nope...there doesnt seem to be an intentional foul rule in FIBA...so that would mean less fast breaks...basically killing anything to watch other than pure jumpshots
> 
> no thanks


the NBA has had that rule for how long, 2 years? I do like the rule though.


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## L (Sep 20, 2005)

FIBA is more like the WNBA but with dunks.:biggrin:

Ok ok. Maybe i took it too far. :angel:


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

2dumb2live said:


> Sending the champs would be great, but you must also remember that players want to relax before training camp. I doubt the Heat would want Shaq and Zo to play over the summer.



Yeah but it would be up to the indivdual players. If Shaq & Zo couldn't come then maybe Howard & Amare take their place or something? The idea is that it is a whole lot easier to integrate one or two guys into a team than to put a whole team together and get them on the same page.


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## L (Sep 20, 2005)

ace20004u said:


> Yeah but it would be up to the indivdual players. If Shaq & Zo couldn't come then maybe Howard & Amare take their place or something? The idea is that it is a whole lot easier to integrate one or two guys into a team than to put a whole team together and get them on the same page.


Thats a good idea. Making chemistry would most likely be faster and better that way.


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## Banjoriddim (Aug 14, 2004)

Yes to me NBA desperetly need to turn a corner coz double standards make it awful to watch I mean just can't enjoy stars "skills" if they aren't challanged at times... I mean why should I enjoy watching Wade when I see that at times he just takes eextra steps and gets fouled out of air I can't enjoy unjustice and stupid marketing tricks that NBA is prohibiting. Seriously I want some real basketball it could come through adapting some nice Fiba rules but it doesn't have to... NBA is wimps league at the moment I mean its mans sport not some fashionshow. I want fair and interesting basketball... and that players would play smart and tried to play any defense.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

katman17 said:


> Why do people insist on saying that FIBA is all shooting. I completely disagree, these comments are totally wrong. I have watched EURO ball and FIBA a lot and I dont see it as just "jacking" threes. These teams run pick and rolls, backdoor cuts, give and go's more than shooting 3's. They shoot the threes when they are open but they look at easy buckets first. They post up their big men, they run off picks all the time and i see layups, dunks a lot in these games. They show the 3D's of basketball a lot as well DRIVE DRAW and DISH. Its beautiful basketball and I love watching this style of game, i love watching the bulls offense for the same reason, they play basketball right. The Cavs and Lakers have 1 star that teammates just step aside and let their "star" do whatever he wants and shoots without any kind of offense, thats NOT basketball! Sure its "fun" to watch on occassion but for a whole game? I dont think so!





bullsville said:


> The FIBA game is "all outside shooting", but the Greeks beat us by scoring 50 points in the paint?
> 
> The two don't add up, sorry.


Exactly. They get to the hoop as much or more than we do, except they don't rely on pure athleticism on clear out isolations to do it. They actually work together and play off of each other. A lot of these international teams have such a different concept of how to play the game. They consider it playing well as a team when there is chemistry back and forth between the players, they pass and screen for each other, get each other open, etc. American basketball has become a game of staying out of the way. It's a take-turns 1-on-1 game a lot of times. 

No team has such a decisive advantage in any area than Team USA does in athleticism. So there has to be a major breakdown from a basketball skills standpoint if teams that are literally not even half as athletic as them are beating them. The freshman don't beat the varsity team, because the varsity team is stronger, faster and jump higher. Again, it takes a major breakdown somewhere on the basketball side of things when teams that are the equivelant of the freshman team athletically, are beating Team USA, the varsity team athletically.


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## King Joseus (May 26, 2003)

I personally prefer NBA, it's what I'm used to, what I like...


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## kirkisgod (Jul 25, 2005)

*Re: If the NBA played more like FIBA would it be more exciting/would you watch it mor*

I've always loved the Bulls, and I love them even more now because they more of an international team game. I am focused less on FIBA vs. NBA but more on Team Game vs. One-on-One. Ill take a solid team performance over an individual winning a game of one-on-one where referees reward the stars.


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## step (Sep 19, 2005)

*Re: If the NBA played more like FIBA would it be more exciting/would you watch it mor*



> I am focused less on FIBA vs. NBA but more on Team Game vs. One-on-One. Ill take a solid team performance over an individual winning a game of one-on-one where referees reward the stars.


There's rewarding the star and there's handing them the trophy on a silver platter. I'll watch anything as long as it's not the latter.


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