# Whats the deal with Crawford?



## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

I'msurfing around here, worldcrossing, and realgm and there seem to be som subtle hints hat some people have some information that Jamal is going to be dealt. Of course they are quite naturally tight lipped about it. Being one of Jamal's biggest fans I am very curious as to what exactly is going on. If anyone privy to any information could clue me in , a private message or e-mail would be aprecciated. I promise to be discreet with any info provided. 

ALso, if anyone just wants to speculate on this thread feel free too. And if you can't feel free, at least feel cheap


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

What sort of hints?

I don't see any here at least. There's Pax's thing on the news last night, but it's far from the first time he hasn't really talked about Jamal as part of the future in the same way he's talked about the other players.


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## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

ACE on a side note do you have the link to the worldcrossing forum , I have not checked it out in a very long time. As for the hints I think something is going down, this whole agent thing has me convinced. I do think it is the right thing to do I just hope we get a good deal. We need perimeter help badly.


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## fl_flash (Aug 19, 2002)

The firing of his agent is interesting. I'm thinking there's some sort of 3 for 2 deal out there and Pax needs JWill to sign his settlement papers to free up the roster spot.

Craw and either Fizer or Erob for some combo of three players. Who they would be and what team it might be, I havn't a clue.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

Yeah, the whole Clippers thing has kind of dropped off the radar.

I just hope that if that deal goes down, we get Q back and not freaking Keyon Dooling for Crawford.

I'm not even convinced we want Q, but jeez, please not Keyon Dooling.


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## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

Yeah I think you are right fl_flash. My hunch tells me it is the Clip show. What 3 players? Well Jaric and Ely would be two, the third one is the big question? If its Dooling, then YUCK!, if its QRich then I could live with that. Although I am not his biggest fan either.


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

Uhm... I'm curious as everyone else is. But the more whispers that are made public, the less likely any deal goes down. That is Paxson's MO.

I will throw this log into the fire though... 

Jamal fires his agent Arn Tellem, 2.5 weeks before the trading deadline. We know Tellem enjoys a pretty solid relationship with the Bulls org, especially Jerry Reinsdorf. You think maybe Crawford sees the writing on the wall and fired his agent knowing he will not be negotiating an extension with Chicago?


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

Well the media hasn't helped Ace20004u, NY still wants Crawford and as far as I know. Thomas may be trying to work out a trade by deadline, invloving Jamal.

Jamal has been on the block since last summer, so I assume the closer we get to deadline the more Jamal trades we see listed. That is what bulls fans do.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

Anyway, there have been hints from people like DB7 at reakgm hat somethig is very much in the works and could go down very soon. Unfortunately it seems the info was given to him in confidence and he can't spill the beans.Sevral others also seem to know what is going on and it is being talked about like it is imminent. 

Basghetti, do you want to go by this name visiting worldcrossing? I have to add you to the list. Thanks!


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>superdave</b>!
> 
> Jamal fires his agent Arn Tellem, 2.5 weeks before the trading deadline. We know Tellem enjoys a pretty solid relationship with the Bulls org, especially Jerry Reinsdorf. You think maybe Crawford sees the writing on the wall and fired his agent knowing he will not be negotiating an extension with Chicago?


yes. and it probably didn't help matters when the pax going off on jamal and eddy in the locker room episode hit the papers a few weeks ago. who do you think leaked that to the press?


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ace20004u</b>!
> Anyway, there have been hints from people like DB7 at reakgm hat somethig is very much in the works and could go down very soon. Unfortunately it seems the info was given to him in confidence and he can't spill the beans.Sevral others also seem to know what is going on and it is being talked about like it is imminent.
> 
> Basghetti, do you want to go by this name visiting worldcrossing? I have to add you to the list. Thanks!


Ace, can you tell give me a link to this worldcrossing site and add me to the list?


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## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

Yeah ACE that will work fine, thanks!


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Darius Miles Davis</b>!
> 
> 
> Ace, can you tell give me a link to this worldcrossing site and add me to the list?


Sure, you want your nick to be Darius Miles Davis?


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## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

ACE you said they are talking like it is imminent. Do you mean like in the next couple days or so? They are not even waiting until the 19th, WOW!


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

Here's what DB7 said over at realgm in regards to Crawford firing his agent. Obviously he can't say any more. Believe it or don't believe it:

"I've known this was coming for over a week now, and I knew Tyson was playing Saturday night for about a week too. Believe me, there is more big news coming soon on Jamal, and this one pales in comparison."


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ace20004u</b>!
> 
> 
> Sure, you want your nick to be Darius Miles Davis?


Of course.


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## PC Load Letter (Jun 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>superdave</b>!
> Jamal fires his agent Arn Tellem, 2.5 weeks before the trading deadline. We know Tellem enjoys a pretty solid relationship with the Bulls org, especially Jerry Reinsdorf. You think maybe Crawford sees the writing on the wall and fired his agent knowing he will not be negotiating an extension with Chicago?


Or maybe he fired his agent because he COULDN'T negotiate an extension with Chicago already?

There's very little doubt in my mind at this point that Jamal will be traded by the deadline. IF he's not in the future plans, that would be the smart thing to do. At the same time, it would be a huge mistake that we will regret for a long, long time. I was incensed when Artest was traded for Jalen. I'll be 10 times more pissed when Jamal is traded. He's been my favorite player since he came here and I'll blow a gasket every time I think about getting rid of him before he's even close to his prime. In fact, I can't wait til Jamal gets traded somewhere else, becomes an all-star in a couple years, and this board has 18 threads/day talking about how trading Jamal for Eddie Jones screwed the franchise for the next 5-10 years. Just a hunch...


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## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

PC, trading him for a Eddie Jones would be a mistake. But if trading him nets us a QRich, or a JRich, or someone of the same variety then it is a good deal. Basically JC for an up and coming SG/SF. If this is the situation then I am happy but if it is for scraps or some old vet like EJ then yeah I would be unhappy too.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

JCBIGSIS posted this article from the seattle times

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/sonics/


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

As I've said, I'd hate to make a deal just to make a deal. If we don't get one or more players who are better now than Jamal AND will be better than Jamal in 4 or 5 years, it isn't worth doing just to "save the season" or whatever. This season has stunk, but it hasn't been because we have Jamal on the roster. He's been put in a new position and as far as I am concerned, he's done a heck of a job adjusting.

I, for one, like the flexibility that a JCraw and Kirk backcourt give the Bulls and would prefer the Bulls leave Kirk and the 3 C's intact.


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## chifaninca (May 28, 2002)

Ace,

Maybe you can ask those who seem to be in the know if this is a deal that most of us would approve of, or be very disappointed in.

I don't want to trade Crawford. I think he is turning the corner and then we will be very sorry, just like we have been with every other trade made since MJ left.

There hasn't been one good trade that has truly benefited the Bulls, I am praying that trend stops.



I just wish that BJ Armstron had gotten the job. Of course, I also wish that JWILL hadn't been injured as well.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

I agree with skiles statement about Crawford:

*"He shows improvement, but he's got a ways to go as a defender," Skiles said. "He's still not consistent enough shooting the ball. He's below 40 percent shooting. But he's making progress. We feel like he's gotten a lot better since Dec. 1, but he still has some habits that need to be changed."* 


I feel the very same way. But does that mean we trade him to "get rid of him?" no. But if there is interest and equal value, then you have to explore it.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

maybe some of our people who are in the know might speak up and tell us what they are hearing. Of course, we do not want to jeopardize their relationship with the organization.


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

McGraw gives some credence to possibly trading Jamal...
http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/col_mcgraw.asp?intID=38019109


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

every year, all year we hear the same thing about the bulls trying to trade crawford ...why should anyone say this is any different?


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>chifaninca</b>!
> Ace,
> 
> Maybe you can ask those who seem to be in the know if this is a deal that most of us would approve of, or be very disappointed in.
> ...


People are being very tight lipped about it.


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## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

ACE your pointed about everyone being tight lipped has me ever more convinced that something is going down. Paxson was furious that the Toronto stuff leaked and you can bet this time he is making sure everyone keeps their mouths shut! Being leaked really delayed the Raptors trade and he does not want that to happen again. This implies something big that he does not want screwed up!


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>basghetti80</b>!
> ACE your pointed about everyone being tight lipped has me ever more convinced that something is going down. Paxson was furious that the Toronto stuff leaked and you can bet this time he is making sure everyone keeps their mouths shut! Being leaked really delayed the Raptors trade and he does not want that to happen again. This implies something big that he does not want screwed up!


I agree. I just hope that if they do trade JCthey get something specialback in return.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>ace20004u</b>!
> 
> 
> I agree. I just hope that if they do trade JCthey get something specialback in return.


Won't happen...

Will get robbed.

Also, can you add me to worldcrossing?

I'm assuming its another Bulls forum.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>arenas809</b>!
> 
> 
> Won't happen...
> ...


Sure, you just need to visit the link on the other thread and sign up with an id. I'm guessing you would use arenas809, once thats done I can add you to the list and you can visit.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/sonics/2001848903_kell02.html

I thought this was a statement from Crawford that lots of folks would want to hear:

"They'll see I'm a more confident player. The difference between me now and in high school is that I'm a little less razzle-dazzle. I'm more efficient. I still have that other game and I'll break it out every now and again, but my game is more mature now."  

It's a sign to me that he at least knows the right direction to go in.

------------

Look, I'm not averse to trading Jamal. But damn, I hope we get something decent.

And while I'd like someone better than Jamal in 5 years, we also have to recognize the effect that having a better player now would have.

Due to holes dug by management and ownership both current and past, we've got two many fresh faces and two many ancient ones. Not enough mid-range guys and scorers to hold it together. If the choice is between letting go of Jamal in order to "save" Tyson and Eddy, or holding on to the whole thing and seeing it implode, then we need to move Jamal.

However, I'm still not totally sure that needs to be done. Even if we don't have talented players, we do have some things to offer:

Expiring contracts:
* Fizer (RFA) $3.7M
* Blount (team option) $1.6M
* Gill $1M
* Brunson $800K
* Pippen $4.9M (if he quietly let's it known he'll forego his salary next year, I could see a team like Memphis or San Antonio being interested).

Veterans a contending team might like:
* Pippen (as noted above. No team would touch him if it meant they have to pay his salary next year, but if he wants to go out on a playoff team, I could see basically a Pip for Mercer swap).
* Gill - veteran shooting guard , good in small does
* Blount - veteran big man, good in small does

I'm guessing AD and JYD are out of this mix because they're too expensive, but still, maybe we could get one or two younger (but not too young guys) and help ourselves out.

Pippen and Blount for Ron Mercer

Fizer, Jeffries (compensated buyout), Gill, Brunson for Casey Jacobson and Jahidi White

1- Kirk, (Jamal)
2- Jamal, Jacobson, (Mercer)
3- Mercer, ERob, Dupree
4- Chandler, JYD
5- Curry, AD, White

We'd need to sign a backup PG, but adding Mercer and Jacobson would give us improved scoring for sure.


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## chifaninca (May 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mikedc</b>!
> 
> 
> ------------
> ...



Mike, 

great post and I agree.

Let's package a few of these expiring contracts elsewhere for something. 

I also would love to see us move AD to a contender needing a tough big man.


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## giusd (Apr 17, 2003)

how about C bulter and eddie jones for JC, robinson, fizer, and j williams contract. Does that even add up? They want to move jones who has a few good years left and bulters knee is finally starting to heal and he is playing better, thro still not 100% yet. This team has too many swing players and no pg.

They need a pg and we need a sg and sf. That way we can draft a sf in 2004 to go with curry, chandler, and kirk. Bad cap wise but whatever, a veteran like jones and a tough player like bulter fits skiles and paxson's mode.

david


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>giusd</b>!
> how about C bulter and eddie jones for JC, robinson, fizer, and j williams contract. Does that even add up? They want to move jones who has a few good years left and bulters knee is finally starting to heal and he is playing better, thro still not 100% yet. This team has too many swing players and no pg.
> 
> They need a pg and we need a sg and sf. That way we can draft a sf in 2004 to go with curry, chandler, and kirk. Bad cap wise but whatever, a veteran like jones and a tough player like bulter fits skiles and paxson's mode.
> ...


I doubt we can trade Jay's contract like that. There's also a bunch of questions about Butler's knee from what I've heard.

I'm not sure they're legit questions, but they're out there and he doesn't look fully recovered from his surgery.

I wonder if something with the Clips is already set and only awaiting the completion of JWill's buyout.

I'd be absolutely giddy if we ended up with a Q/Jaric/Ely/DRob for Crawford/Fizer/Blount deal. That'd give the Clips all the cap flexibility they need, and it'd give us three guys who can come in and contribute both now and in the future.

1- Hinrich, Jaric, Brunson
2- Q, Gill
3- Pippen, ERob, Dupree, Jeffries
4- Chandler, JYD, Ely
5- Curry, AD, DRob

That looks decent too.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

Butler is garbage...

Look guys Miami is in the thick of the playoffs, I don't think they're going to do anything...


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

MikeDC, a trade involving Q would make trading Jamal tolerable. The only catch being we really haven't seen anything published that the Clips are even considering shopping him. However, we have heard about Jaric, Ely and most recently Dooling (in OCRegister today).

Is this the trade being discussed? Just asking... (this trade sucks btw)
Dooling-Jaric-Ely for Jamal-Fizer

Maybe Pax has the attitude that Jamal won't resign, so they should try and get value for him. Fizer won't be brought back regardless, Dooling can spell some minutes at PG for Hinrich. Jaric would slide into the 2. Ely, well not sure what he'd bring us.

As a caveat, I've only conceived this trade after reading a post of CBlizzy's recap on Paxson's Sunday night interview on NBC5... and reports from today.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

We're NOT trading Q....


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## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

Yeah I am convinced that we are looking at a trade with the Clips once the buyout from Jay is complete. I have a hunch that it does not involve Q though. I think the one that will be done is JC,Fizer for Jaric,Ely,Dooling. It ain't great but I think that is the deal.


Hinrich,Dooling,Brunson(IR)
Jaric,Gill,Jeffries(IR)
Pippen,Dupree,Robinson
Chandler,JYD,Blount(IR)
Curry,Davis,Ely


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## dsouljah9 (Jul 9, 2002)

:hurl:

If that's the trade, then NO WAY!!! :upset:


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

http://www.basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?postid=943590#post943590



> Originally posted by <b>C Blizzy</b>!
> I asked a prominent general manager about building a team around a coach. Here's what he said: "One: He has to be a great coach—not good, but great. You can always find someone who is good. Two: You'd better be sure the players are going to follow him. Because if they don't, you're always going to be looking to move your players. Three: *If you choose a coach over talent like Eddy Curry, Tyson Chandler or Jamal Crawford, you could be putting yourself in a tough spot with free-agent players and their agents.*
> 
> http://chicagosports.chicagotribune...smith,1,2237622.column?coll=cs-home-headlines
> ...


Dooling-Jaric-Ely for Crawford-Fizer

point #1)Hinrich is here to stay, as a compliment to Eddy and Tyson

point #2) Fizer is gone, especially seeing that JYD/AD serving as highly paid backups at the 4/5

point #3) Hinrich playing too many minutes, so Dooling can spell him this season

Jaric would get a tryout at the SG this season, and we know he can shoot a little and D. The SF is still a question mark, but Dupree/Pip is the short term fix and probably addressed via MLE this offseason. Just a thought. Trying to fit everything together


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>superdave</b>!
> MikeDC, a trade involving Q would make trading Jamal tolerable. The only catch being we really haven't seen anything published that the Clips are even considering shopping him. However, we have heard about Jaric, Ely and most recently Dooling (in OCRegister today).
> 
> Is this the trade being discussed? Just asking... (this trade sucks btw)
> ...


I spose... but gak... I don't see how we've helped ourselves much. Jamal _ought_ to fetch more than that. I don't see that Jaric is better now or in the future than Jamal. I think I'd be seriously tempted to let him try the market. He's an RFA... if we pay him, he'll come back. No one is going to give him a super huge deal.

And honestly, wouldn't some team cough up an Antonio Daniels or a Hedo, or a Stephen Jackson? Those are three guys off the top of my head I think would be better players than Jaric. It's not that I totally hate Jaric or anything, it's just that he looks like a pretty thorough downgrade to Jamal.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>arenas809</b>!
> We're NOT trading Q....


You also aren't getting something for nothing.


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## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

I agree SD all signs point to this. I can see this trade going down then drafting a guy like Iggy and signing a SF in FA like Hedo. Dooling would be let go and a vet PG signed in FA to backup Kirk.


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## dsouljah9 (Jul 9, 2002)

I agree Mike, I don't think Paxson gives up Jamal w/o getting someone of equal caliber in return; there's no way you can tell me otherwise.


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## Bulls42 (Jul 22, 2002)

*Why don't we wait*

With all the young kids playing, we took Portland to overtime.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

I'm on both sides....

As a Bulls fan, I think if we can do Fizer for Jaric or Fizer for Ely, a deal can get done...I've said it before, no NBA team is going to bless us with talented players for guys that we're dying to get rid of.

As a Clips fan, I think if we're going to offer the Bulls Jaric and Ely, we have to get something better than Fizer. I know we want JC, but Pax would be an idiot to give us JC for Jaric and Ely, we're not trading Q so put the pipe down....

We're a team trying to go forward, and any deal sending away a starter in the league and a guy 2 years removed from the lottery for a guy who can't seem to get consistent PT on a losing team, that's a step backwards.

I see the Bulls as a team that's lost...

Management doesn't know what they're doing, the players don't know what's going on, and the coach seems like he rather prove points than win games.

No one can tell me that he has coached these guys well enough to at least put us in positions to win, and he's not getting the most out of what some his players can actually do...instead relying on the guys to do more than they can.


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mikedc</b>!
> 
> 
> I spose... but gak... I don't see how we've helped ourselves much. Jamal _ought_ to fetch more than that. I don't see that Jaric is better now or in the future than Jamal. I think I'd be seriously tempted to let him try the market. He's an RFA... if we pay him, he'll come back. No one is going to give him a super huge deal.
> ...


We're on the same page Mike! 

It does have the feel of 'something for nothing' in my book. I wouldn't do the trade and I am hoping Pax could get more if he's intent on trading Jamal. But I am just the messenger so to speak, and I'm trying to make sense of the something through all the smoke that's burning.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>dsouljah9</b>!
> I agree Mike, I don't think Paxson gives up Jamal w/o getting someone of equal caliber in return; there's no way you can tell me otherwise.


I think we all need to face facts....

We're not going to get blessed with proven star talent for JC...

If any deal is made, we will receive less than what we send out...

Read: Robbed.

Paxson seems to be dying to get Jamal out of here, and that should worry you, not that he will be an idiot about it, but I think he will make a trade just so it gets done, just like the Rose deal.

Anyone want to argue that we couldn't have gotten a better deal with the players we sent out?


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## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

I am with you too SD I had hoped we could get more. It appears though we can't for whatever reason. Having said that going by C Blizzys comments he sees this as what he has now:


Hinrich,???
???,Gill
???,Dupree
Chandler,JYD
Curry,Davis


Dooling could be the backup PG. Jaric maybe could be starting SG. If not let Dooling walk and let Jaric be backup at both guard spots. Sign a starter at SF with MLE and draft a SG with 2004 1st rounder and have a Hinrich/Jaric/2004 pick(Iggy?) rotation at guard with MLE SF(Hedo?)/Dupree duo at SF. That aint bad.


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## fl_flash (Aug 19, 2002)

What about something like Crawford/Fizer for Jaric/Dooling/Wilcox? I'm not sure if I like this deal or not but Wilcox is a better player than Ely and if you're gonna trade Crawford and supposedly Richardson is off the table, with this kind of a deal you get a big to replace Fizer who will probably get some decent time with the Bulls (Wilcox) and then Jaric and Dooling can help with our backcourt woes.

Crawford is a very nice player. I'm just wondering if he's being over valued on this board relative to the rest of the league.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>arenas809</b>!
> 
> 
> I think we all need to face facts....
> ...


no i agree with you ...pax already did one trade where he got taken for talent , i would assume a rival GM would think they could do it again 

the idea of fizer for any clipper is weak, jaric or ely because basically what you are saying is the clips want a do over with their pick last year in ely or they want to be rid of jaric because with brand and wilcox they dont want or need another power forward...which would just be let go at the end of the season

or in jaric's case that he is not worth his contract and they want a do over and be rid of him because the clips would view it as trading length of contracts ..not looking to the player they get in return


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>fl_flash</b>!
> What about something like Crawford/Fizer for Jaric/Dooling/Wilcox? I'm not sure if I like this deal or not but Wilcox is a better player than Ely and if you're gonna trade Crawford and supposedly Richardson is off the table, with this kind of a deal you get a big to replace Fizer who will probably get some decent time with the Bulls (Wilcox) and then Jaric and Dooling can help with our backcourt woes.
> 
> Crawford is a very nice player. I'm just wondering if he's being over valued on this board relative to the rest of the league.


I think you have it backwards...

Jamal is more valued throughout the league than he is in Chicago, on this board, whatever....

Also you're not getting Wilcox...lol....


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>arenas809</b>!
> 
> 
> I think you have it backwards...
> ...


You do see the countintuitive nature of what you're saying, right?

On one hand, you're saying he's more valued throughout the league than he is here or by the Bulls.

On the other hand, you say no team will give up anything good to get him and you yourself wouldn't give up anything good to get him.

If he's really highly valued, then someone will give up more to get him. If he's really not highly valued, then it's clear that Pax and people here aren't valuing him too low.


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## fl_flash (Aug 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>arenas809</b>!
> 
> 
> I think you have it backwards...
> ...


If Crawford is as valued around the league as you seem to think he is, then I think that it's safe to say that the Clips aren't getting Crawford without giving up something more than Jaric and Dooling. If the Clips are interested in Jamal, then giving up a player like Wilcox has to be part of the package. If not I suppose both teams just walk away and keep what they've got.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

IMO, any team that really wants Jamal will make an offer to him as an RFA. The whole Clips thing is them trying to shed salary. If Q is included then I can see Pax moving Jamal for him, if not, I see no deal including JC with the Clips. I hesitate to speculate what is going on since I am not in the know. But maybe the deal is with some other team entirely? Or, maybe there isn't even a deal out there and some folks just have bad info?


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## giusd (Apr 17, 2003)

JC is the bulls number one scorer at roughly 17 pts per game. We are not trading him for a bunch of bench players. Jaric is not a legatime starter imo (nothing against him i like his game but he is more a sixth man) and Ely and drooling will be cut when the contracts are up as will fizer. So we are really trading jc for jaric everyone else is history sooner or later.

So this trade is jaric for JC. That is not going to happen. If we trade a 17ppg starter we get a 17 ppg starter or paxson will not go for it, period. I think this whole trade with the clippers is bs.

david


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

http://www2.ocregister.com/ocrweb/o...SPORTS&subsection=PRO&year=2004&month=2&day=2



> It would seem impractical for Chicago to trade Crawford straight up for Dooling given the players' respective production this season. In addition, the Bulls reportedly are intrigued by Clippers guard Marko Jaric, who is their starter at the point. The Clippers are determined not to take on any bloated salaries from throw-in players, which would spoil their plan to create enough salary-cap space this summer to make a run at Kobe Bryant.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>superdave</b>!
> http://www2.ocregister.com/ocrweb/o...SPORTS&subsection=PRO&year=2004&month=2&day=2


Dude, you have to stop this, it's just plain freaking me out. I don't see this deal helping us and I don't like it one bit. 

 

Without getting more back, Jaric, Ely, and Dooling for Crawford and Fizer is highway robbery by the Clippers.

There's got to be something out there better. Call up the Suns and look at Joe Johnson. Offer Fizer and Jamal and we'll also take Jahidi White off their hands so they can offer Kobe a max deal. At least then we're getting potential back. Just please for the love of god, not Keyon Dooling.


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## TRUTHHURTS (Mar 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Mikedc</b>!
> 
> 
> Dude, you have to stop this, it's just plain freaking me out. I don't see this deal helping us and I don't like it one bit.
> ...


My sentiments exactly :laugh:


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## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

Just for kicks what if it was Eddie House included instead of Dooling? Making it JC/Fizer for Jaric/House/Ely.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>basghetti80</b>!
> Just for kicks what if it was Eddie House included instead of Dooling? Making it JC/Fizer for Jaric/House/Ely.


Thats not much better. House isn't anybody special.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>basghetti80</b>!
> Just for kicks what if it was Eddie House included instead of Dooling? Making it JC/Fizer for Jaric/House/Ely.


 :no: :whoknows: :naughty: :thand: :verysad:  :groucho: :nonono: :dead: 

I think that adequately conveys my feelings


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## unBULLievable (Dec 13, 2002)

What happened to the ERob-JC package????

Maybe nobody was interested ..or...

maybe Pax has assurances that the Bobcats will pick up eRob at the expansion draft


If JC/Fizer for Jaric/Dooling/Ely then the Clippers must include their 1st round pick definetly.

Man..a guy with inside sources could've been helpful now

Where's LUMPI-44???


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## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

Haha I knew that would be reaction, I concur by the way. That link SD provided was the first time in print that I can remember seeing Dooling rumored here. I am really starting to think that the Dooling/Jaric/Ely deal is the one Paxson pulls. But let's see.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

I am against a dooling for crawford straight up! Kenyon is shooting 39% lifetimes and 35% this season. No thanks.


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## chifaninca (May 28, 2002)

Holy Crap..........


if this is all Paxson can get for Crawford, then Paxson and The Bulls are flat out stupid to trade him....


Dooling - Horrible
Jaric - more helter Skelter than Crawford
Ely - if that were his first name he'd get beat up the same way he does in practice and ont he court.

This would be horrible.

Dooling would be cut next year. Jaric would be a good bench player. Ely would be another project we can't develop.

Paxson, wait till the summer. If this is close to what you can do today, you are better off waiting till the summer. Give Isiah time to work a deal to free Jamal. 

You have to get Q to make this palatable.
Q, Jaric, Ely and Dooling for Crawford, Fizer and Blount


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## unBULLievable (Dec 13, 2002)

Get their 1st round pick PAX..we'll have many other trade options come draft time....

With Q we'll face the same dilemma we are facing now with Jamal....

Unless Pax really likes Q..i don't see a reason why to get him here


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## chifaninca (May 28, 2002)

If it is Dooling, Ely and Jaric for Crawford/Fizer

then I want to make two major points:

1. Paxson is a 100% liar. The reason he states to trade anyone is to improve the team in areas of deficiency. None of thos ementioned improve the team in any area.

2. Jay Williams, you screwed the Bulls fans once this year, redeem yourself and drag this out beyond the deadline for your buddy Jamal and fans of the Bulls. This proposed trade only makes us crappier.


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## Lizzy (May 28, 2002)

These trades are so horrible. They don't improve the Bulls at all. If Jamal is traded the Bulls better be a hell of a lot better than they are now. Not like this Rose/Marshall for Davis/Williams that hasn't improved the win column. 

Pax already traded away Donyell Marshall - probably the best barain in the league behind Tayshawn Prince. I bet he does trade Jamal for crap b/c he simply doesn't like his style. I'm about 2 seconds away from being a Wolves fan.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>unBULLievable</b>!
> Get their 1st round pick PAX..we'll have many other trade options come draft time....
> 
> With Q we'll face the same dilemma we are facing now with Jamal....
> ...


That's something to consider. I'm not 100% sure they can offer Kobe the max if they end up with their draft pick on the books.

If they ended up trading Jaric/Dooling/Ely/Unprotected #1 for Jamal/Fizer... well... it'd be more tolerable. But of course, that's more young players when what we really need is more guys who can play.


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## FJ_of _Rockaway (May 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>superdave</b>!
> McGraw gives some credence to possibly trading Jamal...
> http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/col_mcgraw.asp?intID=38019109


The contents of this article are basically what I wrote a month ago on this board as to why Pax would decide on Jamal by the trade deadline because if it was in the negative and he wasn't going to be a "featured" player meaning big responsbility and big bucks then he ( Pax ) would be hamstrung for two years given the difficulty ( but not impossibility - just difficulty ) of trading his contract because of BYC implications 

That's why Pax had to decide by now to get some compensation .. and if not suitable comepensation.. he just makes him the qualifying offer which Jamal rejects and accepts a bigger offer in the market .. or accepts and stays a Bull 1 more year and then goes to the market unrestricted in 2005 ( Co-incidentally when Seattle is scheduled to have a bunch of cap room ) 

But without Jamal and his contract ..the Bulls have a lot more room to maneuver

Of course ..many will look back in anger when he "blows up" somewhere else


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## chifaninca (May 28, 2002)

Again, I ask why do the Clippers want Q and Maggette and Q?

Q is not going to be happy sitting on the bench, even if it is for Kobe and Maggete.

If you move Q, Kobe can slide right in and play the 2. Unless you are going to go without a PG the three ont he team are a luxury few teams could get away with.

Crawford makes sense in t he Kobe scenario, Q doesn't.


This is the only reasonable (IMHO) trade that makes me happy as a Bulls fan.

Crawford, Fizer, Gill for Q, Jaric, Ely and unprotected #1 pick.

Hell. give them Blount too for more cap reduction.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>chifaninca</b>!
> Again, I ask why do the Clippers want Q and Maggette and Q?
> 
> Q is not going to be happy sitting on the bench, even if it is for Kobe and Maggete.
> ...


They'd need Blount swapped for Peja Drobjnak (at least) in order to have a legit chance to re-sign Jamal in addition to Kobe. They might also have to move their draft pick too, but they could always worry about that closer to the deadline (just, say, swapping it with another team for an extra pick the following year).


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## TRUTHHURTS (Mar 1, 2003)

I think the clipps will follow the Nuggets plan of last year,that is talking about the big fish all year (Arenas) but then pursuing several medium size to small fish fish(Andre miller,Boykins,Leonard,Barry) to give them talent and depth.

They can talk Kobe all they want but they are developing a nice chemistry with Brand ,Maggette, and Q and adding a Crawford + several other quality players to give them some depth may make them an even better team.Of course they want Kobe who doesnt but I can just see them trying to put a more cohesive unit on the floor .

Kaman
Brand
Maggette
Q
Crawford


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## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

JMO, but I don't see a JC,QRich,Maggs,Brand,Kaman lineup being successful. Somehow I think this is the Clips fall back team in case no Kobe. As for us I think we will have a Hinrich/Iggy/Hedo or Eric Williams/Chandler/Curry lineup with Jaric,Gill,Dupree,JYD,AD bench. First round pick on a SG or SF with the other wing position filled with MLE and then Jaric as multi position man off bench.


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>FJ_of _Rockaway</b>!
> 
> 
> The contents of this article are basically what I wrote a month ago on this board as to why Pax would decide on Jamal by the trade deadline because if it was in the negative and he wasn't going to be a "featured" player meaning big responsbility and big bucks then he ( Pax ) would be hamstrung for two years given the difficulty ( but not impossibility - just difficulty ) of trading his contract because of BYC implications
> ...


Kudos FJ, I must have missed it. As well.. kudos for thinking out of the box on your trade ideas and player moves. Most of the partisans on BB.net are recycling the same 3 for 2 deals. But maybe there are other players/teams involved as you have mentioned  We shall see. Only 2.5 weeks to go....


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## ViciousFlogging (Sep 3, 2003)

unless we get a player who can create his own shot in any trade involving Crawford, our offense is going to average 75ppg from here on out. That is, unless the rest of the team suddenly become passers like the Kings.  Flawed though Crawford is, at least he can get a clean look at the basket on his own...a necessity on teams that don't pass particularly well.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

Without Jamal, or at least replacement with production, this team will be out of games by the middle of the first quarter.

I think people are beyond idiots when it comes to Jamal, he's the best player on this team, and IMO him and Eddy are the 2 most likely to become superstars.

Jamal's stats have increased in almost every category since he came into the league, and until now, I don't think he's had a real coach to show him the way.

If you don't believe this kid hasn't improved since Skiles has come on board, you're not watching the games, and you don't know what you're talking about.

I'll be happy for JC when he is blessed with a trade out of Chicago.


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## jimmy (Aug 20, 2002)

Crawford has certainly improved under Skiles and increased playing time. He's also shown that he is willing to learn and improve in weak areas of his game. A month ago, most of us complained about his inability or fear of getting to the basket and drawing fouls. Ever since then, that area has improved. He's taken one step by penetrating and getting to the rim. His next step is to draw more contact if his floater isn't falling. I'm confident that he'll start doing that more often. 

I'm excited what Crawford could become after a summer of hard work(weight lifting, conditioning, work on jump shooting) Hopefully, he'll still be here.


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## samdge (Feb 3, 2004)

Hi all,
After reading the forum it seems that there are a lot trade rumuors going on, la, miami, nyc. The trade for the heat seems to be jc and erob and/ or fizer for butler and jones, how about throwing in rafer alston, hes shown a lot of productivity this season and could come in to take minutes away from kirk. What are ur thoughts on this


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## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

There is one reason and one reason only why JC has tried to be more aggressive as of late. The season is lost and JC is focused on the benjamins. The things Skiles has been trying to get him to do are the same things everyone else before him has tried. Why is it working for Skiles? Because time is running out on JC earning the big payday. I am sorry that sounds harsh but I truly believe it is the reality.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>basghetti80</b>!
> There is one reason and one reason only why JC has tried to be more aggressive as of late. The season is lost and JC is focused on the benjamins. The things Skiles has been trying to get him to do are the same things everyone else before him has tried. Why is it working for Skiles? Because time is running out on JC earning the big payday. I am sorry that sounds harsh but I truly believe it is the reality.


Please.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>basghetti80</b>!
> There is one reason and one reason only why JC has tried to be more aggressive as of late. The season is lost and JC is focused on the benjamins. The things Skiles has been trying to get him to do are the same things everyone else before him has tried. Why is it working for Skiles? Because time is running out on JC earning the big payday. I am sorry that sounds harsh but I truly believe it is the reality.


Well regardless of his motivations he is improving and by doing so he will get paid more and whoever pays him will be thankfull he did it.

At any rate, it's only your opinion. Unless you know Jamal personally and he has told you point blank these things then it's just speculation on your part.

Why spend the time believing the bad in someone when you could believe the good in them? Or at the very least believe nothing.


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## FJ_of _Rockaway (May 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ViciousFlogging</b>!
> unless we get a player who can create his own shot in any trade involving Crawford, our offense is going to average 75ppg from here on out. That is, unless the rest of the team suddenly become passers like the Kings.  Flawed though Crawford is, at least he can get a clean look at the basket on his own...a necessity on teams that don't pass particularly well.


This is true .. but sadly in theory only 

Jamal can get his own shot nearly any time he wants it - No Question 

The problem in the actuality of it is his decsion making / choice of options when he creates that opportunity

And at the moment its translating into wasted opportunity for himself and the team and we're still struggling to score a decent amount of points to win an NBA game regardless of his capacity to get his own shot 

Ron Mercer could also get his own shot 

Not comparing Jamal to Ron so literally.. simply making the point that a player hwo can get his own shot doesn't necessarily make for an efficient scorer

Its a sad situation because the kid has talent but we just can't wait 

And he is less likely to "get it" here in our environment as to what he would in a pros environment like say Minnesota ... where being surrounded by tough azzed vets like KG, Spree and Sammy would do wonders for his development ( if Jamal could ever get the ball off of Sammy  )


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

I think we can be kissing bye bye to our 1st round draft pick. This is the deal that I think will be going down.

Jamal Crawford, Eddie Robinson, 2004 1st round pick, and another conditional pick for Rashard Lewis, Ronald Murray, and Luke Ridnour

We will be sending at least one pick over to them.

PG-Kirk Hinrich/Luke Ridnour
SG-Ronald Murray/Kirk Hinrich
SF-Rashard Lewis/Scottie Pippen
PF-Tyson Chandler/Jerome Williams
C- Eddy Curry/Antonio Davis

It is a fair trade and the Bulls want Lewis, Murray is on the block, and the Bulls always seem to be negotiating with the team they are playing.  

And Jay is gone http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap.php


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>FJ_of _Rockaway</b>!
> 
> 
> This is true .. but sadly in theory only
> ...


Why can't we wait??? This season is going nowhere and next year ain't a return to riots on Rush and Division streets in June. If the boyeeee is going to "get it" why not do a deal to keep him? His public comments seem to suggest that he respects Skiles and I think he could learn a lot from the man.

Buy low, sell high -- not the reverse. I don't want Jamal traded for the sake of making a deal. If he really has "it" and he probably does, we should keep him and continue to develop him.

Only if he is part of a deal that really, truly, makes this team markedly better both now and 5 years from now do I support a deal to trade Crawford, Hinrich, Chandler or Curry.


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## rwj333 (Aug 10, 2002)

I didn't have time to read this entire thread... but the way I see it:

If we don't trade Jamal and get something, then we will lose him to free agency this summer and get *nothing*.

I would speculate that the most Paxson wants to pay Jamal is about 6 million per year. Think a team like the Jazz or the Clippers would run up the contract for more than is feasible to pay for this team? If Jason Terry can get 25 million over 3 years... then Yes.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ace20004u</b>!
> I'msurfing around here, worldcrossing, and realgm and there seem to be som subtle hints hat some people have some information that Jamal is going to be dealt. Of course they are quite naturally tight lipped about it. Being one of Jamal's biggest fans I am very curious as to what exactly is going on.


They were just pulling your leg...


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