# Vince Most overrated player in all sports?



## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

Is vince carter the most overrated player in any of the 4 major sports, active?


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## Tom (Jul 15, 2002)

Are you looking to deal?


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## Locke (Jun 16, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe45555</b>!
> Is vince carter the most overrated player in any of the 4 major sports, active?


Not to me he's not. He's just had some unfortunate injuries. Yeah sometimes he's a little passive, but no one ever said he was the best player in the NBA. Now everyone's just jumping on the "Vince is overrated" bandwagon.


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## Kyle (Jul 1, 2003)

Bruce Bowen is pretty overrated. All he can do is play defense. And yes he will hit some threes with the defense sags off of him because they have no respect for him.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

i say its derek jeter, hes insanely overrated. He isnt even a top 5 shortstop in the majors. Arod, Nomar, Tejada, Renteria and Furcal are all better than him, he's only won championships because hes surrounded by good players.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

nobody gonna argue that??


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe45555</b>!
> nobody gonna argue that??


Nah Jeter isn't overrated. He isn't the best player in baseball, but he is the leader of the Yankees, which will always make him highly paid. He is a very good player and a future HOF most likely.

I think Phil Mickelson is the most overrated person in Sports. Why do people keep talking about him, he sucks and he won't ever win a major in Golf, because he shrivels up like Chris Webber under pressure.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

why should jeter be in the HOF!!?!?!! How many times has he driven in 100 runs? once! how many times over 20 homers? Once! Career BA .315, which is good, but he's been declining past few years. His defense is terrible, C- at best. Routinely strikes out over 100 times and doesnt have the power numbers to back it up. OVERRATED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

how about antoine walker, hes pretty overrated.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Baseball rewards winning more than any other sport IMO. They will say he was the unquestioned leader of the Yankees while he was there, but personally I could care less.

I'm a Met fan and if he didn't make it, I wouldn't shed a tear, I just wish the Mets would win a game.

Mike Piazza is the most overrated player in Baseball. Actually the whole Met team, bunch of scrubs. :upset: :upset:


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

mets fan huh? were you arround to see the 86' world series?? you wouldnt be callin them scrubs!! what a series....


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## BleedGreen (Jun 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe45555</b>!
> how about antoine walker, hes pretty overrated.


Try underrated. Most people dont even consider him an all-star. If you were trying to think of who should make the All-Star team Antoine Walker would not come up. But he should.


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## ThereisnoIinteam3 (Apr 19, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe45555</b>!
> how about antoine walker, hes pretty overrated.


How can you possibly come up with Antoine Walker as the most overated person in sports? In order to be overated you have to be rated. Antoine is never in the top 25 list of best NBA players let alone best anything.
He isn't even considered one of the best PF in the Eastern conference by you people lol.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

i quote from espn.com

He's the worst shooter in the NBA among players who averaged at least 8 points per game. Lowest field-goal percentage (.388). Unfortunately, only five players in the league put the ball up more. Walker was also among the worst 3-point shooters, which begs the question of why he attempted a whopping 582 3-pointers last season. And here's the topper: Shaq shot better from the charity stripe than Walker.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

oh yeah, underrated!!:laugh:


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

come on celtic fans, i'm waiting:grinning:


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## ThereisnoIinteam3 (Apr 19, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe45555</b>!
> oh yeah, underrated!!:laugh:


Oh yes. We all know sports writers and their opinions matter 100%. If we didn't have them telling everyone what will happen who knows how people would be able to think for themselves. 
I love how they predicted the Portland Trail Blazers to win the finals a few years back. I also loved their the Lakers will repeat this year too . How about how Pervis Ellison was going to be a great NBA player. 
:laugh: 

You sound like a Boston hater to me. Must be from New York:laugh: 

Seriously though. Show me where Antoine is ever rated highly? You can't can you so your point is proven wrong. By the way a few articles based in 2002 about his speech to the Celtics during the 21 point comeback game don't count. That lasted about 3 days


If you want to talk about overated try Tracy Mcgrady. For a guy who scores as much as he does you would think he would be able to carry his team to a playoff series win after being up 3 games to 1:grinning:


Anyone else get the feeling this thread was started to find an excuse why Vince Carter isn't the most overated person in sports?
(which frankly I don't personally think he is)


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## Coyat (Jun 18, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe45555</b>!
> i quote from espn.com
> 
> He's the worst shooter in the NBA among players who averaged at least 8 points per game. Lowest field-goal percentage (.388). Unfortunately, only five players in the league put the ball up more. Walker was also among the worst 3-point shooters, which begs the question of why he attempted a whopping 582 3-pointers last season. And here's the topper: Shaq shot better from the charity stripe than Walker.


First off, when you think of the top 20 or so players in the league, Walker is borderling on that list. I don't even know if he'd be on it. He's NOT overrated because people aren't BIG on him. However, I believe that he's a good player that plays with a lot of heart. Walker = overrated? nah..



> why should jeter be in the HOF!!?!?!! How many times has he driven in 100 runs? once! how many times over 20 homers? Once! Career BA .315, which is good, but he's been declining past few years. His defense is terrible, C- at best. Routinely strikes out over 100 times and doesnt have the power numbers to back it up. OVERRATED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Jeter won't be an instant lock into the HOF, but I believe that because of his play, he deserves to get in. Now, mind you, this is coming from a BoSox fan. I don't like Jeter.. but I respect him and the way he plays. I'd still take Nomar any day. BUT.. if I were to build a team around a SS other than Nomar, Jeter is my guy. 

Defense terrible?! :laugh: 
I hate to say it, but remember that play Jeter did in the 2001 playoffs agains Oakland where he CHASED down the relay and made an amazing shovel pass to home plate to gun down Jeremy Giambi? ya.. that's terrible..


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## Kmasonbx (Apr 7, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>ThereisnoIinteam3</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Are you from Boston? Its funny how Boston Red Sox fans care so much what the Yankees are doing, while Yankee fans only care about what the team in 2nd place is doing, whether it be the Sox, Orioles and Blue Jays. I go to school in RI, I actually started rooting for the Yankees again, because of the ridiculous Red Sox fans. I remember Game 7 of the 2001 Series, when Luis Gonzalez got the game winning hit, Red Sox fans began chanting Yankees Suck, Yankees Suck, and were celebrating like the Sox actually won the series, did they even make the playoffs that year? If the Yankees sucked and lost in the bottom of the 9th of Game 7 what does that say about the Red Sox?

About Walker being overrated, you say who rates him highly, how about his 18 million dollar salary, Kobe, T Mac or Iverson don't make that much, and all are much better than Walker.


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## BigGameJames (May 27, 2003)

Coyat, that is one of my favorite plays ever. It shows his heart,desire,awareness and hustle. One play in his career does not make him a good defender.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

exactly, one play....jeter is clutch, i'll give him that, but he just doesnt compare to a-rod, nomar, or tejada. hes on the level of furcal and renteria


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

talk about overrated, how about Brett Favre. people talk like hes the greatest QB ever.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

how about pete rose for overrated??? barely a 300 career hitter


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## Kmasonbx (Apr 7, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe45555</b>!
> talk about overrated, how about Brett Favre. people talk like hes the greatest QB ever.


He might be, doesn't he have like 3 MVPs? He's had 1 bad year his whole career, and that just happened. He barely ever misses a game, and he plays at a position that takes a lot of punishment, when he gets sacked its almost like he enjoys it. And he didn't give Strahan the record, would you let a 6'3 270 pound man hit you straight on? Everyone in their right mind would get on the ground and cover up.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

3 MVP's, exactly my point. Overrated, he deserved 1. It was absurd when he and Barry Sanders tied for MVP, when Barry SAnders had a record setting year, and rushed for over 2000 yards. That was ridiculous.


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## Tom (Jul 15, 2002)

Lebron James could definitley take this title to the stratosphere...i don't envy him at all.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

lebron isnt really overrated, hes overhyped. hes more of an incomplete, wait and see


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## . (Jun 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe45555</b>!
> Is vince carter the most overrated player in any of the 4 major sports, active?


yeah hes just as underrated as g hill and penny right ??
oh, he just had some unfortunate injuries so hes not overrated right ??
if then, whats your definition of "OVERRATED" ??
hes overrated because people still treat him as a superstar and thats not what he truly deserve, he deserve penny and g hill treatment, a has-been type of player.


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## 33 (Nov 18, 2002)

Who is Vince 

Sike!! He is hyped tooooooooo much. For real, he should just join the And1 tour b/c he's too soft to play in the NBA and he likes to dunk. That's the only reason he is an All-Star every year.:yes:


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## Mith (Jul 2, 2003)

Not as far to go as being the most overratted player or even close but i think karl malone is on the list. He is a good power forward, but when people deem him to be the greatest power forward of all time. Yes he may become the greatest nba scorer of all time, tho he played longer then kareem, and he is not exactly as good as everyone says he is. Moreover, Karl Malone is in fact a great player. But he is overrated. HE is overhyped. He is not as good as everyone thinks he is.


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## IV (Jul 16, 2002)

i dont think Karl Malone is overhyped at all.

Just look at his numbers; he was and is a true beast!


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>33</b>!
> Who is Vince
> 
> Sike!! He is hyped tooooooooo much. For real, he should just join the And1 tour b/c he's too soft to play in the NBA and he likes to dunk. That's the only reason he is an All-Star every year.:yes:


Yea for real, he's so soft. Go join the And 1 tour is right! Thats where he belongs!!


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## Naliamegod (Apr 10, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Coyat</b>!
> 
> 
> Defense terrible?! :laugh:
> I hate to say it, but remember that play Jeter did in the 2001 playoffs agains Oakland where he CHASED down the relay and made an amazing shovel pass to home plate to gun down Jeremy Giambi? ya.. that's terrible..


Oh please, he makes two plays and he's a great defender? Jeter is a HORRIBLE defender. His RAA last year was -27, which is laughable. He's also gotten worse RAA wise the last few years.

The thing with VC is that he is a default choice for most overrated Lists, that kinda prevents him from being one.


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## . (Jun 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>IV</b>!
> i dont think Karl Malone is overhyped at all.
> 
> Just look at his numbers; he was and is a true beast!


ABSOLUTELY !!!!!!!!! mailman isnt overhyped at all he is still one of best pf in the league, a top 8 pf, top 15 player in the league despite being 40 years old and with almost 20 years of experiance in the league, this guy is just amazing, i wouldnt be shocked he still can put up numbers like what he did this year when he is in his 25th year !!!!!!!!!


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Naliamegod</b>!
> 
> 
> Oh please, he makes two plays and he's a great defender? Jeter is a HORRIBLE defender. His RAA last year was -27, which is laughable. He's also gotten worse RAA wise the last few years.
> ...


so true, jeter is an awful defender.


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## Idunkonyou (Feb 23, 2003)

Carter isn't overrated. If he was healthy, he would be a top 10 player in the NBA easily.


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## agoo (Jun 1, 2003)

Vince is quite overrated. If he didn't dunk like that, no one would be likely to care so much about him. He's not the _most_ overrated though. 

Reggie Miller is the most overrated player in basketball. People talk about him sometimes like he's among the great scorers of all time. However, he's never averaged over 25 ppg in any season, EVER. Infact, in 10 of his 16 seasons he's didn't even reach 20 ppg. He's never gone over 1.5 spg, never gone over 4 rpg, never gone over 4 apg, never even approached half a block per game. He's a one dimmensional player and he's not that special at the one dimmension, yet there are those who would make you think he's amazing.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

one word: CLUTCH


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## ATM (Jun 23, 2003)

remember not to long ago when vince was averaging 25 ppg, when healthy hes 2nd or 3rd team all-NBA


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## n_fuego83 (Jun 22, 2003)

JETER IS NOT OVERRATED

can u clearly say any ss other then a-rod and nomar are better?
maybe tejada. 

As 4 the person who said he only had 1 100 rbi season and 2 20 hr seasons, y dont you just say mar mcguire was horrible because he never had more than 10 stolen bases or 5 triples. I mean cmon, Jeter is not a power hitter and bats 2nd in the lineup thats y his homeruns and rbi's aren't great. Now as to what he does do career .315 hitter and .387obp and on average gives you 120 runs and 25 steals a year. Hes a great base runner, and his defense is not horrible, hes an average defender, he makes the plays that need to be made but nothing spectacular. some1 mentions his Range Factor being worst among all ss, that stat is as misleading as saves. if u didnt no its calculated by adding ur put outs and assists and dividing by innings pitched, so in essence you get punished if no1 hits the ball 2 you, and the yankees have a lot of strikeout pithcers reducing fielding oppurtunities, jeter is a very good player, not great, but in no way is he overrated. o yea and hes got 4 rings


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## shazha (Nov 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ThereisnoIinteam3</b>!
> 
> 
> How can you possibly come up with Antoine Walker as the most overated person in sports? In order to be overated you have to be rated. Antoine is never in the top 25 list of best NBA players let alone best anything.
> He isn't even considered one of the best PF in the Eastern conference by you people lol.


ive replied a million times to post dissing walker trying to support him. im not going to do it again. Walker is the best passing bigman in the game. if u wanna know why this guy is one of the eastsbest read some of my posts about walker.


and im not even a celtic fan. But no way is this guy over rated. The man has got skills


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## . (Jun 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>agoo101284</b>!
> Vince is quite overrated. If he didn't dunk like that, no one would be likely to care so much about him. He's not the _most_ overrated though.
> 
> Reggie Miller is the most overrated player in basketball. People talk about him sometimes like he's among the great scorers of all time. However, he's never averaged over 25 ppg in any season, EVER. Infact, in 10 of his 16 seasons he's didn't even reach 20 ppg. He's never gone over 1.5 spg, never gone over 4 rpg, never gone over 4 apg, never even approached half a block per game. He's a one dimmensional player and he's not that special at the one dimmension, yet there are those who would make you think he's amazing.


lolz, very true, its about time somebody put a hammer down big mouth miller he he


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## Naliamegod (Apr 10, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>n_fuego83</b>!
> JETER IS NOT OVERRATED
> 
> can u clearly say any ss other then a-rod and nomar are better?
> ...


I agree partly. I don't think Jeter is as overrated as people make him out to be. Only idiots will put him on the same level as those two. There is only 3 major problems with him.

1. He is a yankee, thus has that bias against him.
2. He is overpaid.
3. His production has gone down over the last few years, players his age shouldn't fall apart this quickly.

He really isn't the 3rd best SS anymore. Furcal, Renteria and Gonzalez have completely outplayed him this year, and at their age they should not have a humoungas collapse in performance (Except maybe Renteria because he's playing WAY to good for him).

His defense is very overrated though, even if you don't agree with him being horrible you have to admit a certain amount of people in the media overrate it.

And rings in baseball doesn't tell you much.


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## . (Jun 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>agoo101284</b>!
> Vince is quite overrated. If he didn't dunk like that, no one would be likely to care so much about him. He's not the _most_ overrated though.
> 
> Reggie Miller is the most overrated player in basketball. People talk about him sometimes like he's among the great scorers of all time. However, he's never averaged over 25 ppg in any season, EVER. Infact, in 10 of his 16 seasons he's didn't even reach 20 ppg. He's never gone over 1.5 spg, never gone over 4 rpg, never gone over 4 apg, never even approached half a block per game. He's a one dimmensional player and he's not that special at the one dimmension, yet there are those who would make you think he's amazing.


absolutely !!!!!! if not for all his dunks, he would have be just another dion glover that play in the league, he gets all the hype for his flashy style and his dunks, minus all those dunks then you have an oridaniry nba player, i like him as a player because he can jump over you and DUNK, put it simply
DUNK = VINCE CARTER , without dunk hes absolutely NOTHING !!!!!!!


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## Yao_Ming (Aug 11, 2002)

What are you talking about, vince only dunked like 10 times last year and he still averaged over 20 points a game, and that was his worst season. He's got a pretty good jumper and hits 40% on threes. Without dunking he is dion glover??? Are you on crack??


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## . (Jun 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Yao_Ming</b>!
> What are you talking about, vince only dunked like 10 times last year and he still averaged over 20 points a game, and that was his worst season. He's got a pretty good jumper and hits 40% on threes. Without dunking he is dion glover??? Are you on crack??


first of all, are you really yao ming ????? gosh, i wouldnt hide under a celebrity's name and start talking trash, i believe yao ming never will use words like "are you on crack" hee hee, you must be a yao ming fan right ?? why da hell would you care about vince carter ?? i was refering to his "reputation" as a superstar, had he not being so well-known for his dunks definately he will be just another regular nba guy, read what i said again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again for a thousand time until your understand it mister yao ming.


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>.</b>!
> 
> 
> first of all, are you really yao ming ????? gosh, i wouldnt hide under a celebrity's name and start talking trash, i believe yao ming never will use words like "are you on crack" hee hee, you must be a yao ming fan right ?? why da hell would you care about vince carter ??


Because hes a Yao Ming fan, he can't care about another player?


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## . (Jun 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>hellbot</b>!
> 
> Because hes a Yao Ming fan, he can't care about another player?


i wouldnt get into a debate with him right now because he has yet to know what hes talking about, lets give the kid sometimes to develop his communicating skills then after 2 years maybe he can take on either one of us.


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## TheRifleman (May 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>.</b>!
> 
> 
> i wouldnt get into a debate with him right now because he has yet to know what hes talking about, lets give the kid sometimes to develop his communicating skills then after 2 years maybe he can take on either one of us.


Well then - try me on for size! 

Vince holds one 3 point shooting record and shares another - in the playoffs - where it all really counts! Saying he is like Glover means you either haven't watched Vince much or you certainly haven't been watching the Hawks a lot. Since I have direct league pass, I see them both and have since Vince came into the league!


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## kcchiefs-fan (Oct 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe45555</b>!
> talk about overrated, how about Brett Favre. people talk like hes the greatest QB ever.


Ummm, he may very well be. Numbers, wins, it's all there. Not to mention he never had real good receivers to throw to. Who would you rate higher? Montana was great, but his numbers aren't nearly as good as Favre's and he played with MUCH better talent. Elway's got an argument, Marino's got an argument, but if you ask defensive backs who played against these guys, most of the time they say Favre's the best. Even if he's not the greatest ever, he's certainly on a very short list of candidates.


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## kcchiefs-fan (Oct 28, 2002)

I personally think Emmit Smith is very overrated. I know I'll probably get attacked by all the Texas residents now, but the guy has been very fortunate in his career and is not even close to the best ever IMO.


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## agoo (Jun 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>kcchiefs-fan</b>!
> I personally think Emmit Smith is very overrated. I know I'll probably get attacked by all the Texas residents now, but the guy has been very fortunate in his career and is not even close to the best ever IMO.


I think Emmitt Smith is only overrated by Cowboy fans. At this point I should open up so they can hop down my throat.  

The rest of us will remember Emmitt as being a terrific running back on some terrific teams. He's not the greatest of all time, but if you needed a running back to play in a big game for you and reach tripple digits in yards and get a few touch downs, is there a running back you'd rather have from the 90's over Emmitt? And please don't say Barry Sanders because he never played in a big game, ever.


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## Enigma (Jul 16, 2002)

The most overrated athlete in the world has to be David Beckham, a soccer player. I just saw an episode of ESPN Outside The Lines and apparently this guy has stardom across the world that not even Jordan could match. What bugs me is this guy isn't even a top 5 player and might not even be in the top 10.

My other overrated athletes:
Basketball- Vince Carter. Although soon he may actually become underrated because he's being considered overrated by so many people.
Honorable Mention-A. Walker

Football- Rich Gannon. He's very good but not MVP calibur IMO. Also, if you look at those AFC West defense's, they're pretty bad which is why I can see how he racked up the numbers. The Bucs D showed what Gannon was more like.
H.M.-Mike Vick

Baseball- Deter Jeter- A good player, but not worthy of all the praise he gets. Especially not when they're plenty other shortstops who are better around.
H.M.-Bartolo Colon

Hockey- Jaromir Jagr. Yes, he's still good and produces, but his paycheck just does not match his output.
H.M.- Pavel Bure

Hot dog eating- William "Fridge" Perry. He only ate 4 in 12 minutes? I could have done better than that.


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## . (Jun 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>TheRifleman</b>!
> 
> 
> Well then - try me on for size!
> ...


nah mate, you my friend, plus if i am a moderator like you also in this also then i might consider doing it, but am not ehhhhhh, who knows you might ban me when you cant tolerate me for tearing you apart deeper and deeper, he he kidding
good for you that you have direct league pass ehhhhhh, so how many raptors game from this year you seen featured vince carter ??


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## Joe_Canada (Jul 15, 2002)

A lot of things to talk about....

First of all, Vince is not overrated. He brought his team within a game of the conference finals, put up a 50 point game in the playoffs, and generally seemed like he would be a top 5 player in the league for quite some time, then he got a lot of bad injuries. It happens. But it doesnt make him overrated. His last full, healthy year: 28, 5.5 and 4. Those numbers put him in the top handful of players in the league.

And Brett Favre Overrated???? 4th all time in touchdowns despite getting a late start to being the man on a team, a super bowl, 3 mvps... can someone explain to me how that equals overrated? His career qb rating of 86.8 is 3rd all time behind Steve Young and Joe Montana.

And yes, Antoine Walker sucks. A lot.


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## 2cool4skool (Mar 30, 2003)

*my 2 cents*

Brett Farve -- the greatest QB ever!!

Emmitt Smith -- a top 10 RB of all time

Vince Carter -- great player, but always injured (not exactly his fault). When he actually plays, he's not over-rated

Rich Gannon -- one of the hardest working players in sports. He's extremely smart. Isn't as athletically gifted as other players, but he makes up for it with his work ethic. He's not over-rated.

Derek Jeter -- Only over-rated by Yankees fans. Most people will agree that A-Rod and Nomar are better, but that's it. His consistancy is amazing. And his .315 average is what he's paid to do. Plus, he can steal bases. Quit comparing him to A-Rod. I would compare him to Ichiro. And one more thing, I think he plays great defense.

Antwone Walker -- Very overrated. He takes way too many outside shots and his shooting% is horrific. He is a taller Dion Glover.


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## Hitman (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe45555</b>!
> why should jeter be in the HOF!!?!?!! How many times has he driven in 100 runs? once! how many times over 20 homers? Once! Career BA .315, which is good, but he's been declining past few years. His defense is terrible, C- at best. Routinely strikes out over 100 times and doesnt have the power numbers to back it up. OVERRATED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


He is the all time leader in postseason hits.

He has more big hits and plays in the field than any player in the past 50 years.

Is he the best player in baseball?

No.

But if you judge Derek Jeter on his stats then you are seriously underrating him.


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## Naliamegod (Apr 10, 2003)

Jeter will probably be a HoF for his hype and the fact that his stats are AWSOME for a SS.

And system QBs=overrated.


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## Cochise (Apr 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>newmessiah10</b>!
> I think Phil Mickelson is the most overrated person in Sports. Why do people keep talking about him, he sucks and he won't ever win a major in Golf, because he shrivels up like Chris Webber under pressure.




Or, shrivels up like Kenyon in his last game -- 3 for 23 in the Finals.

HAAAAAA! OMG, you can't choke worse than that.


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