# Battier trade more likely?



## meru (Jul 2, 2003)

Are the Rockets more likely to trade Battier now you've got Artest, or less because Artest has already proven to be a headache and you need all the grownups you can get?


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## Spaceman Spiff (Aug 2, 2006)

No no no no no. Remember our first priority was to get a swingman of legitimate size. Adding Artest and getting rid of Battier would defeat that purpose. The addition of Brent Barry secures Luther Head to the bench(hopefully).


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## meru (Jul 2, 2003)

Spaceman Spiff said:


> No no no no no. Remember our first priority was to get a swingman of legitimate size. Adding Artest and getting rid of Battier would defeat that purpose. The addition of Brent Barry secures Luther Head to the bench(hopefully).


So - who starts? 
Alston
McGrady
Yao
PF of choice
???

Artest or Battier? I know Battier would be less likely to complain, but is that a reason he should be demoted? The bat**** crazy wheel gets the grease?


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## mtlk (Apr 25, 2005)

*He might get traded for a better PG, or he will be sixth man.:thinking2:
*


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## Cornholio (Feb 13, 2005)

We won't know who starts till training camp. And like Spaceman said, finally we have perimeter players with size.


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## Spaceman Spiff (Aug 2, 2006)

meru said:


> So - who starts?
> Alston
> McGrady
> Yao
> ...


Alston
McGrady
Artest
Scola
Yao

There's no debate about it. If Adelman decides Artest would be better served coming off the bench as a 6th man so be it. Even is such is the case Artest will be playing at the end of games because of his offense.

At certain stretches we could always go big with:
T-Mac
Battier
Artest
Scola
Yao

or we could go small:
Alston
T-Mac
Battier
Artest
Yao

Nothing is wrong with Battier getting 25min/game. The best part about this is that T-Mac doesn't have to play as many minutes. We would just have a fresh body to throw at guys like Kobe and Wade all game.


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## Spaceman Spiff (Aug 2, 2006)

mtlk said:


> *He might get traded for a better PG, or he will be sixth man.:thinking2:
> *


This is another train of thought that needs to be thrown away. When will people understand that we can't upgrade Alston unless we're talking bonafide All-Star. He's already among the best at handling and taking care of the ball, among the best defensive PG's, and can hit the 3 at a respectable clip. Unless Battier can get us Deron Williams or Chris Paul I don't see it happening. And there's no way we trade Battier for a mere backup PG.


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## mtlk (Apr 25, 2005)

Spaceman Spiff said:


> This is another train of thought that needs to be thrown away. When will people understand that we can't upgrade Alston unless we're talking bonafide All-Star. He's already among the best at handling and taking care of the ball, among the best defensive PG's, and can hit the 3 at a respectable clip. Unless Battier can get us Deron Williams or Chris Paul I don't see it happening. And there's no way we trade Battier for a mere backup PG.


*Battier for Kirk Hinrich,Chicago Bulls may move him becouse they have Derrick Rose and Ben Gordon, and they don't need expensive backup PG.:thinking2: *


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## Spaceman Spiff (Aug 2, 2006)

mtlk said:


> *Battier for Kirk Hinrich,Chicago Bulls may move him becouse they have Derrick Rose and Ben Gordon, and they don't need expensive backup PG.:thinking2: *


No thank you. I'd prefer to keep Battier and keep our swingmen with size. Moving Battier means Luther Head is back in the rotation. Besides, Hinrich was garbage last year.


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## darkballa (Sep 19, 2003)

I totally agree with spaceman. Rafer is probably one of the best point guards out there that isn't all star level. I used to think Hinrich was better than Alston but Hinrich played like crap last year and Alston played nearly like an all-star. The only ones i can think of that can play better than alston but not an al-star is probably tj ford and Mo Williams and even so, the talent gap isnt that big and Rafer can shoot better than those two. 

The fact that we got artest without trading battier made it a point that Morey wants to keep Battier. It was highly likely that Sacramento wanted battier in the deal since theyre giving up an all-star forward and im guessing Morey turned it down. THen the Kings just settled for an expiring contract. Battier stays. Whether or not as a sixth man. But in my previous threads, ive thoroughly expressed my disgust at Battier's inefficency on offense. near 40 minutes a game and only around 10 points. I really like the Idea of putting battier on the bench and playing him at around 24-28 minutes a game, im guesisng he will average around 8-9 points which is just like how James Posey played for boston (their shooter/defender on the bench for 24-28 mpg) and as we all know, having a shooter/defender on the bench played out really well for them. So i say, start artest, take him out for a while and put battier in and when mcgrady needs some rest put in artest so that the opponents cant double team yao (seeing as nobody else can score on their own other than mac and yao last year).


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## Ballscientist (Nov 11, 2002)

I have a proposal at Blazers board

Billups can play SG and PG.

Rockets get Billups

Blazers get Battier

Pistons get Bayless/Webster/Francis/Brooks.


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## Legend-Like (Mar 25, 2006)

Having Battier on the bench is a luxury. Not too often you can have 2 lock down defenders on your team.


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## hroz (Mar 4, 2006)

Yao
Artest
McGrady
Alston 
are starters

Then we need to decide if Artest plays PF or SF to start and hence whether Scola or Battier starts.

I am looking forward to our season. 

Hopefully we can get another PG with a trade.


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## houst-mac (Aug 7, 2004)

Artest has only one year left in his contract so it doesn't make sense to trade Shane away. If Artest leaves next summer, we have end up losing both of them.


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## Spaceman Spiff (Aug 2, 2006)

hroz said:


> Yao
> Artest
> McGrady
> Alston
> ...


Scola starts and Battier comes off the bench. With a legit scoring big next to Yao and 2 20ppg players on the wings you can't ever double Yao again. We also want to stay away from being undersized like in years past. Artest can play PF for matchup purposes and certain stretches.


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## VCHighFly (May 7, 2004)

Spaceman Spiff said:


> We also want to stay away from being undersized like in years past.


This is the crucial factor. It's fine to go small and get the team running for easy buckets sometimes, but being undersized for long stretches kills teams in this league. With Yao, Scola, Deke, Hayes, and maybe Landry healthy, there should be no need to stay small for long stretches of time. Battier will be an excellent 6th man.


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## MrJayremmie (Dec 29, 2007)

> I have a proposal at Blazers board
> 
> Billups can play SG and PG.
> 
> ...


HORRID trade for the blazers. 

1. WE ARE NOT TRADING BAYLESS.
2. Houston gets Billups and only gives up Francis and Brooks??????


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## jdiggidy (Jun 21, 2003)

Totally agree with everyone saying we will not trade Battier for a backup PG. Battier is our 6th man end of discussion.


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## meru (Jul 2, 2003)

I think the Rockets would have to seriously consider somebody like Przybilla for Battier. You KNOW Yao is going to miss several games, and in the games he doesn't miss, you want to keep his minutes down wherever possible.

And how old is Mutombo anyway? 57?


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## Spaceman Spiff (Aug 2, 2006)

meru said:


> I think the Rockets would have to seriously consider somebody like Przybilla for Battier. You KNOW Yao is going to miss several games, and in the games he doesn't miss, you want to keep his minutes down wherever possible.
> 
> And how old is Mutombo anyway? 57?


Battier isn't going anywhere. If we need a backup C we should trade Head for somebody's scrub or cut Head and sign a scrub with the remaining MLE. Magloire is an unrestricted that's still available. Mutombo's age is a non-factor. I know you see 50yr old Kenyans winning marathons. All those Africans have unlimited stamina.

We need to keep Battier for many reasons:

-We can rest T-Mac longer since we won't be undersized when he comes out and Ron Artest can pick up the scoring load
-Luther Head stays on the bench
-We will always have a fresh body to give 100% effort on D on superstar swingmen
-Luther Head stays on the bench
-Ron Artest has 1yr left on his contract, we don't know what happens beyond this coming season
-Luther Head stays on the bench
-Though unlikely, we don't want to take any chances of him acting up and not have a replacement
-Luther Head stays on the bench
-Brent Barry can now be a primary backup PG especially if Brooks hits the wall, and have him in with Artest and Battier to cover for his defensive deficiencies
-Most importantly, Luther Head stays on the bench


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## DaRizzle (May 22, 2007)

Has Mutumbo resigned with you guys yet? Isnt he a FA right now?


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## Cornholio (Feb 13, 2005)

MrJayremmie said:


> HORRID trade for the blazers.
> 
> 1. WE ARE NOT TRADING BAYLESS.
> 2. Houston gets Billups and only gives up Francis and Brooks??????


We would be trading Battier too. Not that it matters, though; it's just another BS trade.



meru said:


> I think the Rockets would have to seriously consider somebody like *Przybilla for Battier*. You KNOW Yao is going to miss several games, and in the games he doesn't miss, you want to keep his minutes down wherever possible.
> 
> And how old is Mutombo anyway? 57?


:lol:


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## Cornholio (Feb 13, 2005)

Mutombo is still a FA, but I guess he'll retire if he doesn't sign wuth us. And didn't Magloire sign with Dallas?


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## Dean the Master (Feb 19, 2006)

Battier is not getting traded, unless Morey had another magic trick up his sleeves. If Batter is traded, there must be something brilliant in return. Someone like LeBron James, seriously.


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## meru (Jul 2, 2003)

It is fun to see how much teams' fans overrate their own players. But I agree that the Rockets are probably better off holding on to Battier, if only because Artest is going to be an ugly disappointment.

The more I think about it, Artest should be 6th man. He thinks he's a scorer, and the Rockets don't need him jacking up shots when Yao and McGrady are on the floor, and conversely you do need a glue guy like Battier. But who's going to tell him he's not starting?


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## Cornholio (Feb 13, 2005)

Rick Adelman, the coach he respects the most.


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## meru (Jul 2, 2003)

The only player I know who positively disliked Adelman was Tim Hardaway. Adelman gave his minutes to a then unknown Avery Johnson. At the time I thought Adelman was right, because Hardaway's knees were shot. Then Hardaway went to the Heat and... did all right.

What does this mean? Nothing really. But players in general love Adelman. This doesn't necessarily mean he gets the most out of them, or that he can control them. I don't remember Artest doing much for Sacramento while Adelman was there. (Did they even overlap for that long?) In fact, I don't remember Artest doing much for any team ever. This is possibly my faulty memory, but I'd really like to see statistical evidence that shows that Artest helps a team win. (This is easy to do with Battier, I think.) Has Artest ever made it out of the first round? Maybe in Indiana, I can't remember. But that was back when he really was all-league in defense, and his shot-hoisting was under control.


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## OneBadLT123 (Oct 4, 2005)

Stop it Blazer fans, you are not getting Battier. He is one of the most important pieces to this team.


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## Spaceman Spiff (Aug 2, 2006)

This is the only way I MIGHT consider trading Battier to Portland....

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/featur...6~2763~3018&teams=10~10~10~22~22~22&te=&cash=


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## jdiggidy (Jun 21, 2003)

I would definitely consider this. Not sure Portland goes for it unless they see Battier as that true team captain that could really keep all those young guys focused.


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## Hakeem (Aug 12, 2004)

Why don't the Rockets trade McGrady and pieces for Billups and Prince?


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## OneBadLT123 (Oct 4, 2005)

Hakeem said:


> Why don't the Rockets trade McGrady and pieces for Billups and Prince?


I just dont know about Billups. I think he is hitting the point in his career where he is becoming a McGrady. And by that I mean the point in which McGrady's decline accelerated. He seems to be hurt often now, and his production has dropped significantly last year. His contract as well has more years on it whereas Tmacs comes off the books in 2 years. 

That, and I just dont know if Billup's is really an upgrade over Tmac as this point. As long as Tmac refrains from pulling ill advised jumpers (we can only wish), I feel his passing and play making ability is more than sufficient enough for this team.


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## Hakeem (Aug 12, 2004)

OneBadLT123 said:


> I just dont know about Billups. I think he is hitting the point in his career where he is becoming a McGrady. And by that I mean the point in which McGrady's decline accelerated. He seems to be hurt often now, and his production has dropped significantly last year. His contract as well has more years on it whereas Tmacs comes off the books in 2 years.
> 
> That, and I just dont know if Billup's is really an upgrade over Tmac as this point. As long as Tmac refrains from pulling ill advised jumpers (we can only wish), I feel his passing and play making ability is more than sufficient enough for this team.


You're right about Billups in that he's on the wrong side of 30 and can't be expected to play at this level for much longer. But last season was the best of his career statistically, and he's still playing defense at a very high level. In fact, his last three seasons have been his three best. And he's played an average of 78 games a season over the past 8 years. 76 over the past 3.

T-Mac is still the slightly better player, but if we somehow got Prince as well, I think it'd definitely be worth it. Many point guards struggle with Billups' size as it is. Imagine what a matchup nightmare a starting five of Billups-Battier-Prince-Artest-Yao would be.


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## Spaceman Spiff (Aug 2, 2006)

Hakeem said:


> Why don't the Rockets trade McGrady and pieces for Billups and Prince?


Because Billups is washed up and Prince is a choke artist. At least McGrady is still making All-NBA teams. T-Mac is not falling off like too many people are saying. Had his percentages been straight he'd average 25ppg. Watching his game he didn't show signs of decline. What bothered me was how flat his shots were. Way too many lasers fired at the rim especially from the FT line. If he puts the arc back into it he'll be back to 24-25ppg. 

I know he aint getting any better but let's not give him the Shaq treatment just yet.


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## jdiggidy (Jun 21, 2003)

I have been beating the TMac Pistons thing to death but at this point I think Houston is going to stand pat with him and waiting until the 2010 free agent class rolls around and pickup a DWade or a LeBron.

Can you imagine if this team is very competitive, makes the playoffs, resigns Artest and then picks up a guy like DWade in 2010. Damn!

2010 - Lineup

PG - ?
SG - DWade
SF - Artest
PF - Scola
C - Yao


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## meru (Jul 2, 2003)

OneBadLT123 said:


> Stop it Blazer fans, you are not getting Battier. He is one of the most important pieces to this team.


I agree. But does your GM agree? If so, why did he just trade for a guy who plays Battier's position?

And when you say "one of" - who's he behind? Is he now behind Artest?


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## Hakeem (Aug 12, 2004)

Spaceman Spiff said:


> Because Billups is washed up and Prince is a choke artist. At least McGrady is still making All-NBA teams. T-Mac is not falling off like too many people are saying. Had his percentages been straight he'd average 25ppg. Watching his game he didn't show signs of decline. What bothered me was how flat his shots were. Way too many lasers fired at the rim especially from the FT line. If he puts the arc back into it he'll be back to 24-25ppg.
> 
> I know he aint getting any better but let's not give him the Shaq treatment just yet.


Billups had one of the best seasons of his career last season. He's not washed up.

Prince is efficient and fairly productive offensively and plays excellent defense. 

T-Mac fell off bad last season. Saying "had his percentages been straight he'd average 25 ppg" is like saying "if Eddy Curry lost weight and grew a heart he'd be an All-Star".

Watching his game, he did show clear signs of decline. He has been missing shots he used to make with increasing frequency. 

He hasn't had any arc on his shot in four years. He's not putting it back in now.


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## MrJayremmie (Dec 29, 2007)

> Stop it Blazer *fans*, you are not getting Battier. He is one of the most important pieces to this team.


Its just one fan.


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## Spaceman Spiff (Aug 2, 2006)

We went for Artest because we needed a decent sized swingman who could get buckets. It doesn't matter if he was SG or SF. As we seen since 2004, we have always been undersized since that stupid trade for David Wesley. The past 2 years in the playoffs should already tell you how badly we needed someone. Luther Head has been our backup SG and PG(more of a tweener) and he just doesn't get it done. On top of that he is atrocious at best when it comes to PG duties. It was imperative we get players who are clear upgrades. Brent Barry could handle PG duties and Artest could take the scoring load. Don't be concerned with Battier's minutes. 25mpg is good for him, and with Artest being a capable scorer T-Mac gets to rest more.

I don't care whether Artest starts or not. It's not really an issue for me because the points will come in handy off the bench. Most likely he will finish games ahead of Battier.

And as I stated earlier, if the matchups favor us, we could go big with T-Mac, Battier, Artest, Scola, Yao 
or small with Rafer, T-Mac, Battier, Artest, Yao.
Otherwise expect the closing line-up to be Rafer, T-Mac, Artest, Scola, Yao

Bottom line - WE DID NOT TRADE FOR ARTEST TO MAKE BATTIER EXPENDABLE, WE TRADED TO MAKE LUTHER HEAD IRRELEVANT

Does anyone realize how deep we are on the wings!? When last were we this deep!? We finally have legit size on the wings. We finally have 3 players who could score 20 each. We have two All-NBA perimeter defenders to throw at the opposing teams best player for 48 straight minutes and more. We have 2 of the 3 best perimeter defenders in the league. 

As of now we just need to sign Landry and Mutombo and get rolling. I'm confident Barry can handle backup PG duties esp with Artest and Battier in there to cover for his defensive liability so I don't see that as a pressing need.


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## OneBadLT123 (Oct 4, 2005)

meru said:


> I agree. But does your GM agree? If so, why did he just trade for a guy who plays Battier's position?
> 
> And when you say "one of" - who's he behind? Is he now behind Artest?


I am sure Morey knows what he has in Battier. That, and I am almost certain that Battier would be willing to come off the bench as a 6th man role. I dont know whats so wrong with having a true professional on our team, and keeping one of the best perimeter defenders in the league. 

Think of James Posey in Boston. Thats what we are expecting, and I am sure the Rockets are as well.

And by "one of" I meant he is one of the 3 most important role player pieces on our team. The other one being Chuck Hayes and Scola.


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## OneBadLT123 (Oct 4, 2005)

MrJayremmie said:


> Its just one fan.


Everytime I go over to the Blazers board, I always end up seeing some scenario of fans wanting, and thinking of ways to pluck Battier away from the Rockets. I guess I did stereotype a little.


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## MrJayremmie (Dec 29, 2007)

> Everytime I go over to the Blazers board, I always end up seeing some scenario of fans wanting, and thinking of ways to pluck Battier away from the Rockets. I guess I did stereotype a little.


all good. And yea, we do that on the blazer forum. But i think every team does that. Not a lot to talk about in the off-season. Battier would be a great fit for us, but yea, i don't think he is available.

Good luck guys.


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## OneBadLT123 (Oct 4, 2005)

MrJayremmie said:


> all good. And yea, we do that on the blazer forum. But i think every team does that. Not a lot to talk about in the off-season. Battier would be a great fit for us, but yea, i don't think he is available.
> 
> Good luck guys.


I know Battier would be a perfect fit on your team. But that's part of the reason why we don't want to let him go here. because hes a perfect fit for ours as well


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