# Cleveland at Milwaukee (3/16/05)



## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

@









5:00 pm PT, 8:00 pm ET
*TV:* FSOhio, NBALP

*The Good:* Cleveland has won 3 games in a row and has regained their confidence. Silas is using a rotation these days instead of running the starters in the dirt and AV is making a difference out there. 

*The Bad:* Nobody likes to play on back-to-back nights and especially not when such a game occurs on the road. Cleveland has shown they are strong at home. Now they need to prove they can win away from The Gund.

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Cleveland needs to have good perimeter defense this game and the encouraging thing is that Snow is getting off the bench quicker these days. If Snow is needed, Silas can put him right in the game. The Cavs are definately going to attack the Bucks in the paint and try to control the glass.









If Cleveland can keep winning, their destiny will be in their own hands. The Cavaliers must continue to do their part.


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## Tersk (Apr 9, 2004)

(3:21) [CLE] Ilgauskas Rebound (Off:4 Def:1)
(3:21)	[CLE 16-21] Ilgauskas Layup Shot: Made (4 PTS)
(3:23)	[CLE] Ilgauskas Rebound (Off:3 Def:1)
(3:23)	[CLE] Ilgauskas Tip Shot: Missed
(3:24)	[CLE] Ilgauskas Layup Shot: Missed
(3:25)	[CLE] Ilgauskas Rebound (Off:2 Def:1)

:laugh: Go big Z


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## DHarris34Phan (Oct 28, 2004)

*Bucks Forum has a running game thread....get in it Cavs Fans!*


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

we're officially getting whupped


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

wow what a come back: tied it up after being down by 18. Snow needs to replace McInnis in the starting lineup


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## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

Halftime
Cavaliers - 43
Bucks - 48

Down by 18 at one point and back in the game. James once again is willing things to happen. Something about the Bucks (or maybe it's just me) but it feels like they've done this to Cleveland before. It felt like deja vu seeing the guys get blitzed early on.


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## LOYALTY (May 23, 2003)

Gooden is taking over the scoring in the 3rd quarter, and looking good. Redd is lighting Newble up right now. We have to stay tough on the defensive end. It's going to be the key to the game.


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

God we're awful on the road. This is the same bucks team we beat WITHOUT Lebron James, yet here we are getting blown out in the middle of a playoff chase.

And Silas has gone back to his erratic sub patterns. Harris logging major minutes, Traylor in the entire 3rd quarter instead of Varejao, Jmac in nearly the entire 3rd quarter, etc. 

We need to figure out this problem on the road cause we flat out can't beat anybody.


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

Silas still going with Traylor instead of Varejao. I'm still trying to figure that one out.


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

Silas brings in Varejao and Snow and we're immediately back in the game. His erratic subs kill us.


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## LOYALTY (May 23, 2003)

No D.

No W.

Nuff Said

..


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## RP McMurphy (Jul 17, 2003)

LeBron plays 45 minutes while Sasha Pavlovic and Jiri Welsch (in which the Cavs have invested two first-round picks) play a total of 11 minutes and end up with 4 points, 1 rebound, and 1 assist on 1-5 shooting between them. Time to start the "Fire Paxson" chants.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

sasha and Jiri aint the problem. We won and played well they got minutes

This coaching staff simply baffles me: I thought they turned it around and this gameplan happens:

Mcinnis plays twice as many minutes as Snow: I think Snow +/- over McInnis is right now around a +50-60

AV, Sasha, and Jiri played have as many minutes as the combo of Harris/Tractor. Doesn't make any sense the team played so much better when Harris and Tractor and McInnis saw less time: stupid or stubborn or both?


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## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

*Boxscore:Milwaukee 96, Cleveland 88*

Cleveland's poor performances in Milwaukee continue. Seeing Harris even enter the game was odd enough and Jiri still seems shakey out there (though he played only briefly) Like what Benedict said, Traylor playing 9 minutes more than AV was baffling. If the Bucks had a huge, physical guy down low, it would be more logical having the widebody out there. But that's the only time that should happen. For the Cavs to truly pick it up, they're going to need to win on the road. They got frustrated, picking up 3 technicals and Silas almost being beside himself. Cleveland did make spirited comebacks but playing catch-up isn't the way to go. You spend a ton of energy to go on a run, the other team buries you again and the morale just sinks another level.


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## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

Pioneer10 said:


> AV, Sasha, and Jiri played have as many minutes as the combo of Harris/Tractor. Doesn't make any sense the team played so much better when Harris and Tractor and McInnis saw less time: stupid or stubborn or both?


Agreed. I think towards the end of the first half, once McInnis returned to the game, the Bucks went on something the equivilent of a 6-0 run. It was strange why Snow was taken out at that moment but lightning struck fast once it happened.


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

I expected us to lose since it's a road game, but these kind of losses are irritating because I don't think Silas is putting the team in the best position to win. 

It makes no sense to arbitrarily change the rotation that worked to perfection in the last 2 games. The Bucks killed us early on because of the penetration on Jmac yet he plays him the entire 3rd quarter and they pull away. Why play Traylor over Varejao during that same stretch despite his ineffectiveness? Why play Harris over Sasha out of nowhere? 

At this point in the season people should know their roles, but i've watched every game this year and I still can't pinpoint the rotation.


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

remy23 said:


> Agreed. I think towards the end of the first half, once McInnis returned to the game, the Bucks went on something the equivilent of a 6-0 run. It was strange why Snow was taken out at that moment but lightning struck fast once it happened.


^^ yep that's exactly what I was referring to, really pissed me off cause I knew we were done after that.


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## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

Benedict_Boozer said:


> At this point in the season people should know their roles, but i've watched every game this year and I still can't pinpoint the rotation.


I would argue until those last 2 games, the Cavaliers had no consistent or effective rotation. This game was shades of the past, when nobody outside of Silas himself knew what was going on. If "favorites" like Traylor and Harris return to more playing time, everything is thrown out the window now.


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

I'm really beginning to wonder if we will win another road game the rest of the season. 

I don't think we have since the West Coast trip? That's pretty sad when you think about it.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

People may come in think we're blaming the coach because we lost but this is ridiculous. On every message board we say the same damn thing over and over again: Take out McInnis/Harris and play AV/Sasha. This has been consistent throughout the year.

Guess what Silas does exactly that and we get blowout wins. He does the opposite and not only do we lose we get whupped. Very baffling to me: I gave Silas credit for making the switches and now I'm taking it back. He is either stubborn, stupid, or both. I have feeling we're going to lose our first round series handedly - would Phil Jackson coach Cleveland?


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

remy23 said:


> I would argue until those last 2 games, the Cavaliers had no consistent or effective rotation. This game was shades of the past, when nobody outside of Silas himself knew what was going on. If "favorites" like Traylor and Harris return to more playing time, everything is thrown out the window now.


I can't deal with anymore Traylor and Harris so let's pray tonight wasn't a preview of things to come. :no:


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## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

Pioneer10 said:


> People may come in think we're blaming the coach because we lost but this is ridiculous. On every message board we say the same damn thing over and over again: Take out *McInnis/Harris* and play *AV/Sasha*. This has been consistent throughout the year.


I follow the bolded part especially. I would expand it one player further though: take out *McInnis/Harris/Traylor* and play *Snow/Pavlovic/AV*.

I give the Bucks credit for the win. They desired it more, they deserved it.

But seeing Traylor out there like that with McInnis being blown away at will, was simply embarassing on some levels. I'm not proud to say that either but...


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

I got no problems with the Bucks winning even if coached perfectly we still maybe would have lost as it was a back end of back to back on the road. But the way we lost there is no excuses. The poor substitution pattern clearly played a role in that. Nothing say that more then that run at the end of the 1st half (already mentionend) where we climb back from 18 down and then for no reason Snow sits. Boom back down again: again baffling


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## DHarris34Phan (Oct 28, 2004)

*Bucks are a lot better than people think.....tonight was not an abberation, they are a good team.

Tonight just showed that you guys were tired after a back to back, and we were well rested.
*


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

^ yes it's painfully obvious that Snow is just a flat out better PG. 

I think we could survive the Silas rotations if just that one change was made. Z would have less foul trouble, you wouldn't see the breakdowns on the perimeter, and James would have more fast break opportunities off defensive stops.


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

DHarris34Phan said:


> *Bucks are a lot better than people think.....tonight was not an abberation, they are a good team.
> 
> Tonight just showed that you guys were tired after a back to back, and we were well rested.
> *


You guys played a great game and definitely deserved to win. Even if we were rested I doubt we would have won with Redd on fire like that. 

Our complaints are more related to issues that have been going on for a long time, nothing against the Bucks


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## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

Benedict_Boozer said:


> ^ yes it's painfully obvious that Snow is just a flat out better PG.
> 
> I think we could survive the Silas rotations if just that one change was made. Z would have less foul trouble, you wouldn't see the breakdowns on the perimeter, and James would have *more fast break opportunities* off defensive stops.


James is amazing in the fact that he runs as much as he does. Considering McInnis is terrible at running the fastbreak, I wonder how many more transition points James would have with a better fastbreak passing guard.


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## LineOFire (Apr 20, 2004)

The point spread was so beautiful for this game and the Cavs had to screw it up. Thanks for costing me 100 points!


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Someone should email Dan Gilbert these message boards. This many basketball minds can't be wrong. It's so obvious that AV and Sasha need to be playing.

It makes me wonder. Wasn't there rumors that ownership was the reason that AV was played so much in the first place?

I wonder if this was Silas trying to stubbornly go back to his old ways.
I would think this in conjunction with the Boozer comments, are not winning him any points with the new ownership.

Losses like these are frustrating. But the Bucks are tough at home. It's just a shame that it feels like the coaching staff is sabotaging the team.

RP, I don't think Sasha is going to be a reason to fire Paxson.
On the whole he's been a decent GM. Not spectacular. Not horrible. I would only fire him if a superstar GM was lined up. And I don't mean Bob Whitsitt.


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## Larry Hughes for Retirement (Jul 5, 2004)

Anyone stop and think that Jiri Welsch looks lost and Sasha didnt show much in the stint out on the floor. So we are down 12 and he goes to Harris to try and spark things. He was on the floor when we brought it from about 14 to about 3.

But on the other hand i dont understand Tractor in for so long. But maybe their are other reasons we as FANS dont know about. Could AV be tired and not back in shape, could he be tired b/c its his first back to back game since his return. Could Tractor be well rested since he didnt play much against Utah.

Yes the rotations versus the Jazz were great and it was a blowout win. But people can we understand we were at home, well rested and the Jazz are TERIBBLE. We go on the road, tired, and against a very good team when they are on. And tonight they were on.

Could Silas help that Redd was ripping our best wing defender in Newble, or that Z was in big time foul trouble. He also couldnt take out lebron who looked flat late in the 2nd and end of the 3rd. 

I mean you guys are all hating on Silas but he is a players coach. The players seem to respect him and play well together. And those two things you dont see around the leauge. He is a 2nd half coach (meaning 2nd half of season), and people dont forget he is turning a team with 17 wins just 2 years ago into a 4th seed playoff contender. And all we did is add Jeff M. ( which every hates on this board ) and lose Boozer.

He might love his vets but maybe he is trying to show a point to the young guys. GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR ***. Every since Newble return Sasha has shown nothing off the bench and Jiri a big fat ZERO. I will admit i hate seeing Harris out there, but he was deep on thebench for the awhile and maybe it woke him up as well.

??????????????????


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

I'm surprised Welsh isn't flourishing with this team. He did better with the Celtics, and that was with Paul Pierce of all players. 

AV not playing more Trackless is a sin. I hope Silas didn't play him because he wasn't well conditioned/injured for tonight's game, because there's no other reason that I can think of for him not to put AV on the court over Trackless.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

LBJ to LJ for 3 said:


> Anyone stop and think that Jiri Welsch looks lost and Sasha didnt show much in the stint out on the floor. So we are down 12 and he goes to Harris to try and spark things. He was on the floor when we brought it from about 14 to about 3.
> 
> But on the other hand i dont understand Tractor in for so long. But maybe their are other reasons we as FANS dont know about. Could AV be tired and not back in shape, could he be tired b/c its his first back to back game since his return. Could Tractor be well rested since he didnt play much against Utah.
> 
> ...


 Look I respect any Cavs fans opinion. But can you atleast acknowledge that Snow has clearly outplayed Jeff McInnis? Again over the last three games by my rough estimate when you minus Snow's +/- with Jeff's +/- it totals a ridiculous +50-60 in Snow's favor. Regardless of any other move Silas has to get Snow more minutes and earlier in the game as well.


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

This is my problem with that LBJ to LBJ. We don't have the kind of firepower or the cushion for Silas to play favorites at this time of the season. You go with your best 8-9 players, stick to a SOLID rotation, and roll with it. We're not going to win every game, but we shouldn't be having musical chairs with the lineups every night and playing people like Harris and Traylor a combined 33 minutes. 

Drew Gooden gets 14pts, 7 rebounds, 3assists and only plays 25 minutes, while Traylor logs 23 and gets 2pts 4rebs 1 assist??? What sense does that make? EVERYTIME AV plays he makes positive things happen and he only logs 14 minutes? That's ridiculous. Split Traylor's 23 minutes up to Gooden and AV and we would be much better off. 

And if your gonna dump 1st round draft picks on guys like Sasha and Jiri, play them please. We are obviously going nowhere with Harris so it doesn't pay to leave him in there. He can't defend, penetrate, hell he hasn't made more than one 3 in a game all season! Harris had his opportunity to start, put him on the end of the bench where he belongs. 

It's not just my opinion either, the numbers show it as well. Varejao has the 2nd highest +/- on our team behind James and it's not a coincidence (While Traylor has a roland rating of -3.2, nearing Diop territory). There is no excuse not playing him as the primary back up big man behind Z/Gooden, and alongside them as much as possible.


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## Larry Hughes for Retirement (Jul 5, 2004)

I agree with the point on putting in Snow over Jeff M. Snow looked great in their when we had our comeback in the 2nd quarter. But what has Jiri showed on the floor, if your an NBA player their isnt much to learn in a system. Play D, Hit open shots, Find Lebron James.

Hopefully Luke Jackson will become healthy........


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