# Paul Pierce is horribLe defender.



## Richie Rich (May 23, 2003)

Due to recent controversy over this issue, I wiLL bring it up for debate.


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## Richie Rich (May 23, 2003)

I wouLd say above average @ the Least.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

I say average. If you can't shut down Jeryl Sasser, you can't be better than average.


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## Richie Rich (May 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe45555</b>!
> I say average. If you can't shut down Jeryl Sasser, you can't be better than average.








Can we get an instant repLay on that game and see how often Pierce was on him? How many minz each pLayed and everything? B/c even if Pierce had one off game, wow, it makes him a bad defender? No. As I aLready said, you are wrong.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

"OK Listen *******, I never said PP is the best pLayer in the NBA. You are the one with your head stuck up T-Mac's ***, and I admit fLaws. I think PP is Top 10, but you then rant and rave about him not being a defender, but now you made me go get stats b/c you are immature LittLe ***** who can't take it when he's wrong. Sorry that PP had a bad game against one guy. And I AM SURE PIERCE GUARDED HIM THE ENTIRE GAME ALSO That's your onLy point, and yes PP is a good defender, so YOU GET OVER IT."


Once again, more cursing and name calling which doesnt prove your point at all. I don't have my head up T-mac's ***, didn't I just say T-Mac wasnt a good defender????? However, he is the top offensive player in the league.


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## Richie Rich (May 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe45555</b>!
> "OK Listen *******, I never said PP is the best pLayer in the NBA. You are the one with your head stuck up T-Mac's ***, and I admit fLaws. I think PP is Top 10, but you then rant and rave about him not being a defender, but now you made me go get stats b/c you are immature LittLe ***** who can't take it when he's wrong. Sorry that PP had a bad game against one guy. And I AM SURE PIERCE GUARDED HIM THE ENTIRE GAME ALSO That's your onLy point, and yes PP is a good defender, so YOU GET OVER IT."
> 
> 
> Once again, more cursing and name calling which doesnt prove your point at all. I don't have my head up T-mac's ***, didn't I just say T-Mac wasnt a good defender????? However, he is the top offensive player in the league.








[strike]You're pathetic. I proved my point w/ stats and if you watch the C's then that wiLL prove my point even more, 'nuff sed.[/strike]

None of that. ---agoo


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## Captain Obvious (Jun 15, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>CeLtZ in 04</b>!
> You're pathetic. I proved my point w/ stats and if you watch the C's then that wiLL prove my point even more, 'nuff sed.


Stats won't tell you much about defense. For an example, T-Mac is one of the top guards in rebounds, steals, and blocks in the league but most people don't consider him one of the top defenders. That being said, Paul Pierce is an ok defender who has trouble against quicker guards. He's a competent defender but nothing special IMO.


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## TMOD (Oct 12, 2002)

> He's a competent defender but nothing special IMO.


 Bingo.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>CeLtZ in 04</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Player, Points, Date
Allan Houston-39 Points 11/2
Kobe Bryant-41 Points 11/7
Ray Allen-31 Points 11/16
Vince Carter-23 Points, Morris Peterson-31 Points 11/29
Jamal Mashburn-33 Points 12/1
Tracy McGrady-31 Points, Mike Miller-29 Points 12/9
Shawn Marion-33 Points 12/11
Ricky Davis-42 Points 12/13
Allan Houston-24 Points 12/14
Jalen Rose-24 Points 12/16
Eddie Jones-21 Points 12/18
DaJuan Wagner-25 Points, Ricky Davis-21 Points 12/21
Lucious Harris-17 Points, Richard Jefferson-22 Points 12/25
Eddie Jones-28 Points 12/27
Gordan Giricek-17 Points 12/31

Ok, thats through 2 months of the season, just a few of the games, should I go on, or is my point proven? It wasn't just one game!!!


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## ltrain99 (Apr 27, 2003)

This is really hard to answer, because you make the polls o confusing. There is a huge difference betweem a terrible defender, and not be ign 1 of the better 1s in the league. You really need 2 fix that.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>CeLtZ in 04</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You proved it with stats eh? Look at the numbers I pulled out buddy, I think most people will agree I'm proving my point better than you. All you're doing is stating your opinion and belittling mine without facts, just your opinions.


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## Captain Obvious (Jun 15, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>CeLtZ in 04</b>!
> Due to recent controversy over this issue, I wiLL bring it up for debate.


Looks like this thread idea sort of backfired on you, eh?


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## whiterhino (Jun 15, 2003)

He's an average defender, not terrible, not terrific.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>whiterhino</b>!
> He's an average defender, not terrible, not terrific.


Thank you, an unbiased Celtics fan's opinion!!!

I never said he was horrible, but if you read this thread, its quite obvious who's made the best arguement-Those of us who say he's average.


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## mrsister (Sep 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe45555</b>!
> 
> 
> Player, Points, Date
> ...


You really have to take these games in context. Sure, Houston got 39 points 11/2, but Pierce got 46 and the Celtics won. Kobe scored 41 on 11/7, but Pierce scored 28 and the Celtics won. Not to mention, Kobe was only 17 of 47 to get those 41 points. If you take 47 shots, you're bound to get some points. T-Mac had 31 points on 12/9, but Pierce had 30 and the Celtics won. Rose had 24 points on 12/16, but Pierce had 37. 

Anyway, you get the picture. Just because somebody scores on you, doesn't mean you're a poor defender. That would mean all those guys that Pierce scored on are poor defenders, including Kobe Bryant who most people believe is an excellent defender. Sometimes, you just can't stop hot shooters. Almost all the guys mentioned can go off on any given night, and there's nothing you can do about it. Pierce does the same thing. Plus, Pierce may not have been guarding some of those players anyway. They don't all play the same position. 

If you watch Pierce play, you'd know he's a good defender. He may not actually get the steal or the block all the time, but he does a good job of bothering the shot or the pass. He's also a great defensive rebounder. Maybe he's not a top twenty defender, but among the top offensive players, I'd say he's one of the better defenders. Of the list of players you mentioned, I'd say Bryant is the only one who's clearly a better defender. Marion and Jones might be better, but I don't think it's definitive.


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## theBirdman (Jun 20, 2003)

Great post mrsister. I totally agree with you! Though I believe Jones and Marion are a bit better. Pierce on the other hand certainly is one of the better defenders at his position!


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

I'm a VERY big celtic fan, and Pierce is just too slow to keep up with the SG's, he's just average, though, because his lack of quickness..


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## Richie Rich (May 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe45555</b>!
> 
> 
> Thank you, an unbiased Celtics fan's opinion!!!
> ...








I am agreeing w/ u though, I never said he was top caLiber either. I guess I am just confusing you and everyone eLse in what I am trying to say. You can cLose the thread if you wouLd Like, I didn't present it weLL.


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## Richie Rich (May 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>mrsister</b>!
> If you watch Pierce play, you'd know he's a good defender. He may not actually get the steal or the block all the time, but he does a good job of bothering the shot or the pass. He's also a great defensive rebounder. Maybe he's not a top twenty defender, but among the top offensive players, I'd say he's one of the better defenders. Of the list of players you mentioned, I'd say Bryant is the only one who's clearly a better defender. Marion and Jones might be better, but I don't think it's definitive.








This is reaLLy aLL I have been trying to say b/c I thought other ppL. were makin' him out to be this horribLe defender, but now that I have seen their opinions 'n' that's that. Itz as simpLe as that.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

2 quotes from Celtz in 04

HorribLe post. *Pierce is a GREAT defender* . Maybe you need to go teach your boy T-Mac how to pLay b/c Pierce is a better defender than him by far. This is a ridicuLous post. Is there any way guys Liek this can be bLocked from making idiotic comments in our forum? PLease, this is pathetic. You aLways make such ignorant comments w/ no proof. Let us aLL bow down to the Magic, the superior team, and T-MAC, the aLmighty one. 

I am agreeing w/ u though, I never said he was top caLiber either. I guess I am just confusing you and everyone eLse in what I am trying to say. You can cLose the thread if you wouLd Like, I didn't present it weLL.



Someone changing their view because he realizes he's wrong??? I think so :yes: :yes: :yes: 



....Paul Pierce is a great defender......
(another post).....I never said he was top caliber :laugh: :laugh:


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## Richie Rich (May 23, 2003)

IMO Great and Top caLiber are two different things. I admitted the way we describe what type of player they are is wrong, so yes in a way I was wrong, so sue me. I was just stating my opinion.


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*Hobo*

I guess living on the side of the road with the "Will Smack Off For Food" sign you don't have TNT...In that Lakers-Celtics game, which Boston won, Kobe MISSED THIRTY SHOTS. If I remember correctly Pierce frustrated the heck out of him and packed his [email protected]# a couple of times. You gotta look at the boxes as my friend astutely pointed out. Is he Joe Dumars? No. Is he a better defender than McGrady? Yes. Is he capable of locking down guys when he wants to? I think so.


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## walkon4 (Mar 28, 2003)

*Paul*

Paul is NO WAY NEAR a horrible defender.

A horrible defender that is of superstar status is Dirk Nowitzki.

Why must people make up situations just to debate??

I have never heard Paul's defense criticized to the point of a debate with a poll..

come on yall


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## walkon4 (Mar 28, 2003)

*well*



> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe45555</b>!
> 2 quotes from Celtz in 04
> 
> HorribLe post. *Pierce is a GREAT defender* . Maybe you need to go teach your boy T-Mac how to pLay b/c Pierce is a better defender than him by far. This is a ridicuLous post. Is there any way guys Liek this can be bLocked from making idiotic comments in our forum? PLease, this is pathetic. You aLways make such ignorant comments w/ no proof. Let us aLL bow down to the Magic, the superior team, and T-MAC, the aLmighty one.
> ...


I dont think that TMAC IS horrible either.

****, DIRK IS YOUR BEST Star that plays no D. He can't defend because he isnt quick enough... Hell hes 7"0, and i understand he plays smaller forwards, but he doesnt contribute that much defensively.


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## walkon4 (Mar 28, 2003)

*well*



> Originally posted by <b>mrsister</b>!
> 
> 
> You really have to take these games in context. Sure, Houston got 39 points 11/2, but Pierce got 46 and the Celtics won. Kobe scored 41 on 11/7, but Pierce scored 28 and the Celtics won. Not to mention, Kobe was only 17 of 47 to get those 41 points. If you take 47 shots, you're bound to get some points. T-Mac had 31 points on 12/9, but Pierce had 30 and the Celtics won. Rose had 24 points on 12/16, but Pierce had 37.
> ...


I think i understand.

But still, lets REVERSE that information, and see how much Paul has dropped on them. The same can be said either way.. This is the NBA, and at this particular position you better be able to score the ball, or you will be looking for a job. These guys are the best scorers in the world. So no, I dont think you can say a guy plays no defense just kuz a guy like Ray Allen scored 20 on him.

Gimme a Break.


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## Pistolballer (May 9, 2003)

IMO Pierce is a slightly, slightly above average defender, but he is also a very competent defender, nothing spectacular, but he gets the job done


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## mrsister (Sep 9, 2002)

*Re: well*



> Originally posted by <b>TheTruth34</b>!
> 
> 
> I think i understand.
> ...


I hope you were quoting the wrong post because you said pretty much what I said in mine.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: well*



> Originally posted by <b>TheTruth34</b>!
> 
> 
> I think i understand.
> ...


What does how many Pierce dropped on them have to do with his Defense?


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## mrsister (Sep 9, 2002)

*Re: Re: well*



> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe45555</b>!
> 
> 
> What does how many Pierce dropped on them have to do with his Defense?


What I think he's trying to say is that while these players may have dropped points on Pierce, he can do the same to them, but that doesn't make them poor defenders. How many points a guy scores on you isn't necessarily an indication of your defense. Most of the guys you mentioned are great scorers, so they'll get their points. For instance, Pierce dropped some serious points on the Pacers in the playoffs in a couple games. Does that mean Artest is a bad defender? No. It means Pierce was on fire. 

Plus, coaches switch who defends who, so unless you watch the games, you don't know if Pierce was defending those players or not. Could've been Eric Williams or Walter McCarty for all we know.


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## Erotophage (Aug 11, 2003)

Pierce a horrible defender? yea and Dirk was SNUBBED for the all defensive team :lol:


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## RP McMurphy (Jul 17, 2003)

No, it means Isiah Thomas is a moron who had the bright idea of having Al Harrington guard Pierce for long stretches, and SURPRISE Pierce exploded (4th quarter Game 1, 3rd quarter Game 4). I seem to recall long stretches in that series where Artest absolutely shut Pierce down (first 3 quarters of Game 1 for example).


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## Erotophage (Aug 11, 2003)

Artest did a great job on pierce. he shut him down for some good cunks of time. but he was unable to shut him down all the time. particularly in key situations where the game was on the line. Thats why Pierce was able to take over the series and prove why hes one of the clutch performers of the league. THe pacers were the more talented team. and Isiah did coach the pacers out of the victory but thats a bad example. Pierce was just too good for artest


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Erotophage</b>!
> Artest did a great job on pierce. he shut him down for some good cunks of time. but he was unable to shut him down all the time. particularly in key situations where the game was on the line. Thats why Pierce was able to take over the series and prove why hes one of the clutch performers of the league. THe pacers were the more talented team. and Isiah did coach the pacers out of the victory but thats a bad example. Pierce was just too good for artest


Artest did a great job, but no matter how good the defense is you are not gonna hold a guy forever, especially in a 7 game series. Basicly what I am saying is the statment "Pierce was just too good for artest" is not ture, Kobe and T-Mac aren't always too good for Artest. Take the C's for example, they always play "defens" yet they have only won 2 games over half in a 82 game regular season schedule. Anyone remember the Sacramento game? We played horrible for the first 3 quarters, and then our d tightened up, we almost won, until Chris Webber made a 3, his 4th of the season. 

You can't shut down someone completley, during some streches you can, or maybe for a game, but not during the whole series.


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## KBrownFan (Jul 6, 2003)

*Artest ..too big and bulky.*

Artest is too slow to guard guys like T-Mac, Pierce, and Kobe.
He plays hard and physical so that helps but in the long run he is going to get beaten. He just can't stay with thinner and faster guys. His defensive is overrated.

Pete


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Re: Re: well*



> Originally posted by <b>mrsister</b>!
> 
> 
> What I think he's trying to say is that while these players may have dropped points on Pierce, he can do the same to them, but that doesn't make them poor defenders. How many points a guy scores on you isn't necessarily an indication of your defense. Most of the guys you mentioned are great scorers, so they'll get their points. For instance, Pierce dropped some serious points on the Pacers in the playoffs in a couple games. Does that mean Artest is a bad defender? No. It means Pierce was on fire.
> ...


You make some good points here, I'll give you that, but the point of my arguement is this: If great scorers put up there averages, it doesnt make Paul Pierce a terrible defender, but an average one, my original arguement.


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## agoo (Jun 1, 2003)

I think he's a slightly above average defender. The scorers in the league get their points against him, as they do against everyone. However, Pierce is capable of getting a stop when necessary and he makes sure that other players don't have an easy time getting their shots off.


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