# Hot Hot Rumor From Sc!!!



## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

*Hot Hot Rmor From Sc!!!*

Portland and Denver are in serious talks about this deal

Rasheed and #23 
for
Camby and #3 (Carmelo)

Supposedly Denver has had their sights set on Outlaw and like the prospect of Sheed off the cap next summer.


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## bfan1 (Mar 5, 2003)

*ut oh*

hmmm...love the Melo thing but Camby???? Isn't he hurt ALL THE TIME!????

I can't even begin to imagine Rasheed in Denver, Colorado. He is going to HATE that.


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## Siouxperior (Jan 15, 2003)

Did I miss something? I didn't hear them mention the #3 pick. But man, this would be awesome!!! (vintage will see this, and say "CAN'T YOU GUYS GET IT ?NO BLAZER IS WORTH A 1st ROUND PICK , LET ALONE A TOP 3 PICK!!!" ) lol. 

I just hope this rumor is legit.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

What?! No Denver! NO! I want to see Carmelo get major PT, not drown in the bench in Portland.


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## bfan1 (Mar 5, 2003)

*melo/outlaw*

SO-we trade for Melo and pick Outlaw (according to the ESPN mock)...hmmmm

that would be interesting...


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## blazerboy30 (Apr 30, 2003)

it gets me all excited to think about the possibility of having/developing Zbo, Q, and Melo.

i have no reason to believe these 3 would make our team any better than it is now, but it sure would be fun to watch these guys grow and improve!


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## Reep (Jun 4, 2003)

I don't even want to get my hopes up, but wow. If this happened . . . . I would have hope for my Blazers again.  Why, because I believe that Anthony will be a star and the kind of leader (eventually) that a team can build around. He scores, rebounds, passes and most of all SMILES. He is actually personable. I know we would take a loss initially with losing Sheed, but Anthony could be a huge part of our future--and the fans would love him.


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## Beaverton (Apr 17, 2003)

I am a HUGE sheed supporter, but I would do this no questions asked. Melo is the man! 

He can be our Clyde Drexler II!


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## FB (Dec 31, 2002)

Schilly, I'm really going to hate you for getting all our hopes up like this if it doesn't happen...

But WOW....if it does happen I think it'd be the best scenario we could possibly expect from a Sheed trade.

Oh, and I seriously doubt if he'd get buried on our bench like some guys have in the past. We're not nearly as strong at the SF position as we were at PF (Jermaine, Zach) and SG (Qyntel...and he's not ready for serious PT anyway). With Pippen likely gone, and hopefully Patterson gone or benched, Melo would see plenty of PT if Cheeks is smart and stops using Bonzi out of position.


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## Talkhard (May 13, 2003)

This trade has Bob Whitsitt's stamp of genius all over it. And I love it! If this goes down, Portland has a very bright future.


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## Kmurph (May 7, 2003)

Where did you hear this schilly?

I'd absolutely love to see this deal go down. But being that the odds seem to be long from what I have read\heard, I won't get my hopes up too much. But , man would that be great. :yes:


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## Reep (Jun 4, 2003)

Does this trade make sense for Denver? Okay, let's assume that they aren't crazy about Anthony. The would be dropping from 3 to 23 just to clear out about 17mill in cap space. Assuming they don't want to keep Sheed, the rationale must be that they already have a few good youngsters and could use some young vets or a star to come in through free agency. If they were 17mill or more under the cap, they could certainly make a run at some people. So, I guess this only makes sense if Kiki has his eye on a 2004 free agent or agents.

Any other thoughts on why Denver does this?


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## Gym Rat (Dec 30, 2002)

The rumor was heard from David Aldridge on SportsCenter.


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## Reep (Jun 4, 2003)

Also, I don't want to burst anyone's bubble, but remember that Denver already showed the world a locker with Anthony's name on it.


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## BrooklynBaller (Jun 25, 2003)

There would obviously have to be other players involved cuz Rasheed's salary is twice Camby's. Even throwing in a player like Rodney White still wouldn't be enough. The only player on the Denver roster making remotely similar money to Sheed is Juwan Howard. I just don't see how this deal can go down the way it has been reported.

Am I missing something here?


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## Trader Ed (Jun 17, 2002)

Is SC = Sports Center?

source? I would love it, but want to keep our #23 as well...

send them McInnis so we can keep the #23


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## Reep (Jun 4, 2003)

> The rumor was heard from David Aldridge on SportsCenter.


Well, David is certainly a source that I respect over most others. And name plates can be removed with a screw driver. If not, they can always pull Greg Anthony out of the booth and sign him up.


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## Gym Rat (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BrooklynBaller</b>!
> There would obviously have to be other players involved cuz Rasheed's salary is twice Camby's. Even throwing in a player like Rodney White still wouldn't be enough. The only player on the Denver roster making remotely similar money to Sheed is Juwan Howard. I just don't see how this deal can go down the way it has been reported.
> 
> Am I missing something here?


I was just looking up the salary info too... Not sure how it works but Alridge wasn't very specific about this.


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## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BrooklynBaller</b>!
> There would obviously have to be other players involved cuz Rasheed's salary is twice Camby's. Even throwing in a player like Rodney White still wouldn't be enough. The only player on the Denver roster making remotely similar money to Sheed is Juwan Howard. I just don't see how this deal can go down the way it has been reported.
> 
> Am I missing something here?


Denver is already under the cap.


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## bfan1 (Mar 5, 2003)

*to get it to work*

What about Hilario?


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## Maybeso (Jan 29, 2003)

*I can't get REALGM to work for me, but*

I CAN see that Camby makes about half Wallace's salary. Camby has 2 years remaining and Wallace only the one.

Why would Denver do such a money-oriented deal and pass on a future all-star?

Does Kiki think he can rehabilitate Sheed? Or as suggested is there some great FA available next year?

Is the FA group next year all that hot?


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

*Re: I can't get REALGM to work for me, but*



> Originally posted by <b>LongtimeLurker</b>!
> I CAN see that Camby makes about half Wallace's salary. Camby has 2 years remaining and Wallace only the one.
> 
> Why would Denver do such a money-oriented deal and pass on a future all-star?
> ...


who cares what kiki thinks he can do, if the nuggets (for some strange reason) offer to do this trade, you say yes.


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## Trader Ed (Jun 17, 2002)

Vintage was kind enough to remind me of this last night, as well. Denver is under the cap.

This is a deal that could go down in theory tomorrow, and executed July 16th. Then Denver will be about $25 mill or so under. THey may be under now, but they could renounce Howards $ to get more under, then just absorb it

But my questions is why for Denver? IF you could get Carmelo and then sign, maybe Arenas, Brand and maybe one more FA like Brad Miller or so...

why take on Sheeds big $ and only be able to sign 1 or 2 more FA's... Sheed's $ takes up a lot of that $

is he a draw for others to want to come and play on his team? maybe? he is extremely talented.


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## Siouxperior (Jan 15, 2003)

Let's not go too far, I didn't hear David Aldridge say anything about the #3 pick involved. But it would take a hell of a lot more than just Camby.


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

Denver is about 6 mil under the Cap. Camby is making $6.8mil and sheed is at about $14.8 mil. So there is an $8 mil difference, so I think it would fly. Denver may need to include Ryan Bowen.


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## Reep (Jun 4, 2003)

First, a question. If Denver is under the cap enough, could they do the trade without being within 115%?

At least on like FA for 2004, is Elton Brand. He will likely take a qualifying offer this year (like Kandi did) and become an unrestricted free agent next year. Brand will certainly want to get away from the Clippers, and a lineup of Nene/Brand at center/PF with Stika (assuming he progresses) at SF would be very interesting. I could see Brand working out nicely in Denver.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Siouxperior</b>!
> Let's not go too far, I didn't hear David Aldridge say anything about the #3 pick involved. But it would take a hell of a lot more than just Camby.


There is no way on gods green earth the blazers would trade rasheed AND the 23rd pick for just Camby. Hell, they wouldn't even trade Rasheed straight up for Camby.


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## Siouxperior (Jan 15, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hap</b>!
> 
> 
> There is no way on gods green earth the blazers would trade rasheed AND the 23rd pick for just Camby. Hell, they wouldn't even trade Rasheed straight up for Camby.


I agree, but my point was just that DA didn't mention the #3 pick being involved.


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## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

*Check me if I'm wrong, and I know somebody will...*

Denver is 20-22 million under the cap. In theory, they could trade the #3 pick straight up for up to 20-22 million in salary. 

Say they trade the #3 + Camby for Sheed and the #23.

Denver pays Sheed roughly 20 million or whatever for this year and the 1.5 million or so for the 23 pick. But they've gotten rid of Camby and his roughly 10 million salary, they're still around 10 million under the cap this year. They can either go after a solid free agent in this class, or sit on that cap space. Next year Sheed's contract comes off the books. Since they already dumped Camby, they will be about 28-30 million under the salary cap and they can pursue two big time free agents and maybe even a third complimentary guy. 

With Sheed, they will be better next year and they will have a great shot at being a very good team 3-5 years down the road. 

This deal makes sense for both teams and I wouldn't be surprised to see it happen.


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Reep</b>!
> First, a question. If Denver is under the cap enough, could they do the trade without being within 115%?
> 
> At least on like FA for 2004, is Elton Brand. He will likely take a qualifying offer this year (like Kandi did) and become an unrestricted free agent next year. Brand will certainly want to get away from the Clippers, and a lineup of Nene/Brand at center/PF with Stika (assuming he progresses) at SF would be very interesting. I could see Brand working out nicely in Denver.


If denver is under the cap (they are), then they can fill the cap with extra salary.

Now the new contract values don't take affect till next Tuesday. But Denver is under the cap now by about $6-7mil which they can obsorb on a trade. as of next Tuesday they would still be about $7 mil under the cap, which leaves them enough room to still pursue Arenas quite comfortably.


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

*Re: Check me if I'm wrong, and I know somebody will...*



> Originally posted by <b>Fork</b>!
> Denver is 20-22 million under the cap. In theory, they could trade the #3 pick straight up for up to 20-22 million in salary.
> 
> Say they trade the #3 + Camby for Sheed and the #23.
> ...


Those Cap figures don't take affect till next week, but they are $6 mil under right now.


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## ProudBFan (Apr 29, 2003)

Man... tough decision. On one hand, we get Carmelo. On the other hand, we get Camby. Oh what the heck, Carmelo is going to be a franchise player, so...

GO FOR IT BLAZERS!!!

Still, I can't remember EVER seeing one of Whitsitt's trades hit the news wires before it actually went down. Probably means this one won't.

I'd love to see it happen, but I'll believe it when I see it.

PBF


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

Looks like it will have to wait till July 1. 

The cap is at $40 mil and denvers salary is at $46mil right now.

July 1 is Tuesday


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## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

*Re: Re: Check me if I'm wrong, and I know somebody will...*



> Originally posted by <b>Schilly</b>!
> 
> 
> Those Cap figures don't take affect till next week, but they are $6 mil under right now.


Where have you seen the 6-7 million quoted? I scoured the net and found, twice, figures that said 20-22 million. Not at all doubting you/your source, just curious.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ProudBFan</b>!
> 
> Still, I can't remember EVER seeing one of Whitsitt's trades hit the news wires before it actually went down. Probably means this one won't.


The Steve Smith deal was rumored/reported by Peter Vecsey at the draft, well before it happened.

The Damon Stoudamire was rumored to happen, too, well before it did (I remember the Rockets and Blazers were the two obvious, well-reported rumors), and Pippen wasn't a surprise, either.



> I'd love to see it happen, but I'll believe it when I see it.


Well, I'll believe it when I see it, but I'm not sure I'd love to see it happen. I'm just not convinced that Anthony is going to be that good.

With that said, if we get him he'd be an exciting guy to match with Zach and Qyntel for the future.

Was it mere coincidence that Anthony sat in the Rose Garden and watched the Blazers kick the crap out of the Mavs?

Ed O.


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## DucknBlazer (May 7, 2003)

You guys gotta see the Nugget's "main" messageboard. They are throwing out some REALLY funny trade ideas, including things like ZR+DA+#23 pick for Camby and Rodney White haha. They also seem fairly convinced that they wont be trading the #3 pick although a few people admit that Kiki doesn't seem totally sold on 'Melo.

I would LOVE to land 'Melo but it seems like whenever a possible trade is made public it's DOA (most of the time but like Ed O say's the Stoudamire trade was well known for awhile so i guess ya never know).


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## Peaceman (Jan 15, 2003)

With the CBA can they announce a trade before it is able to be completed? Example, "on July 1st we trade Carmelo, and Camby for Sheed and Outlaw" and let us know before or during the draft?


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

I think they can say i has been agreed on in principle but will be consumated as of the specified date, but I am not sure.


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## marshall (Jun 18, 2003)

> Was it mere coincidence that Anthony sat in the Rose Garden and watched the Blazers kick the crap out of the Mavs?
> 
> Ed O.


He was doing an NBA playoff tour type thing....I saw him on TV at a Magic game and a few others.....I really dont see Denver doing this. They need a bright spot and a player the fans can get behind. I love Rasheed, but we all know he isnt that guy. Melo is perfect for Denver.


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## Terrible (Jan 3, 2003)

Sheed is worth Anthony! For the first year at least, while Anthony is learning the ropes Sheed will make Denver half way respectable again. Then they can dump Sheed if they choose and go after another star. What that also sounds like to me is that Howard is going bye bye! So they need offense in a hurry.

Having Anthony here solves the final piece of the hub and makes us a real freaking contender in under three years. Jump at this deal.:yes: :yes:


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>marshall</b>!
> 
> 
> He was doing an NBA playoff tour type thing....I saw him on TV at a Magic game and a few others.....I really dont see Denver doing this. They need a bright spot and a player the fans can get behind. I love Rasheed, but we all know he isnt that guy. Melo is perfect for Denver.


well, Rasheed is perfect for Denver...it's the mile high city.


ehehehehehehe....guh


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

Sheed would enable Denver to run Skita at his natural SF position and Nene at the Center position. Arenas would still be penciled in at PG, but the SG position would be suspect.


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## Peaceman (Jan 15, 2003)

ESPN is having a draft preview tonight at 7:00. Will this be a live show or a already recorded show? Maybe aldridge and Chad Ford can talk about current rumors if it isn't already recorded.


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## Public Defender (May 5, 2003)

*Re: Check me if I'm wrong, and I know somebody will...*



> Originally posted by <b>Fork</b>!
> Denver is 20-22 million under the cap. In theory, they could trade the #3 pick straight up for up to 20-22 million in salary.
> 
> Say they trade the #3 + Camby for Sheed and the #23.
> ...


Excellent post. I'd wish I'd written it. :sigh: 

But now that you've gone and done it, let's go back to what Aldridge actually _did_ say... that it'd be Camby for Wallace + Portland's #23. I believe if that's the deal, then it's an offer from Denver that the Blazers are trying to leverage into including either the #3 pick or a future first rounder. 

If the Nuggets can swing this deal (and say they have to give up the #3) and land a decent player with the #23 player, I could see Kiki making a pretty good play for a few of the big name free agents - especially those guys who've already mothballed their Clippers' uniforms. 

Imagine a frontcourt of Wallace (PF), Hilario (C), and Lamar Odom (SF), with Barbosa (PG) and Corey Maggette (SG) in the backcourt. Who knows, the Nuggets could probably make a pretty good case to Gilbert Arenas, too. 

The problem? Denver sucks... and it's hard to suddenly create an "aura of winning" out of nothing. The Kings and Mavericks have done it recently, but lots of other teams (the Wizards, Clippers, Grizzlies) have tried and failed to turn things around.


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## jackiejackal (Nov 7, 2002)

*oh be still my heart*

Carmelo would be a dream..
I love that kid's smile and we know he has game.


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

I don't know about ya'll, but it seems to me that ESPN has thrown any pretenses of respectable journalism out the window, and pretty much they've entered the Vescey Zone. Here's the intro to Chad Fords latest on Finley to Chicago...

"It's 2:13 a.m., and the phone rings with yet another GM who has a story to tell."

Does anyone really believe that GM after GM is so willing to spill the beans to ESPN's lead rumor-monger that they are calling him in the middle of the night to go over the latest? Thats just silly.

STOMP


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## Public Defender (May 5, 2003)

*Re: oh be still my heart*



> Originally posted by <b>jackiejackal</b>!
> Carmelo would be a dream..
> I love that kid's smile and we know he has game.


Down, down! 

But seriously, I neglected in my post to mention how this trade would benefit Portland. 

The Blazers would be looking at...

PG: Pip, Damon
SG: Bonzi, DA
SF: Anthony, Q
PF: Zach, Camby
C: Davis, Boumtje-Boumtje

We'd be getting a little thinner up front would be the biggest concern, I'd say.


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

Looks like a 500 club to me. JMHO.

STOMP


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## Gym Rat (Dec 30, 2002)

Here are the details:
Camby/White for Sabas/23rd Pick (Outlaw)

Forget the dream of MELO... FORK!


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## Peaceman (Jan 15, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>STOMP</b>!
> Looks like a 500 club to me. JMHO.
> 
> STOMP


I'll take .500, but I bet we will see the Ken Griffey remake in Portland. I bet we will win 46-48 games amd improve the year after. Sheeds defense will be missed, but his influence won't be.


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## ABM (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Gym Rat</b>!
> Here are the details:
> Camby/White for Sabas/23rd Pick (Outlaw)
> 
> Forget the dream of MELO... FORK!


What, no







??!

Whhaaaaa!!!


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## Gym Rat (Dec 30, 2002)

Too bad... about Melo but Camby ain't bad...


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Peaceman</b>!
> Sheeds defense will be missed, but his influence won't be.


Since I strongly feel that interior defense influences the outcome of games, and I like my favorite team to win, I would miss Sheed's influence. I think that Melo will be able to score, but I don't see him excelling on the defensive end at all. Ditto for Zack and Q. All three are scorers and matadors. I'll say it again, clearing 17 million in cap space in just a year will be of great value to someone... thats space for 2 near max level free agents in just a year, and the rented services of a skilled big man in the meantime. Portland should be able to get back two very useful pieces for Wallace, and Camby is not a useful piece. He rarely even suits up. Plus they want the #23??? Keep the cutie pie smile, I want a better deal then this... I bet only better deals (from Portland's perspective) are being discussed.

STOMP


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## MAS RipCity (Feb 22, 2003)

you all know how I stand on trading Sheed for a draft pick, BUT BUT BUT BUT Carmelo Anthony is the ONE andI mean ONE and ONLY guy in this draft I would trade SHeed for to get, yes that includes LeBron. Camby isn't half bad,good backup.


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## Gym Rat (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Gym Rat</b>!
> Here are the details:
> Camby/White for Sabas/23rd Pick (Outlaw)
> 
> Forget the dream of MELO... FORK!


FYI - this came from David Alridge directly...


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## DucknBlazer (May 7, 2003)

For what it's worth, here is a report that Denver is indeed shopping Melo............





> Denver is actively shopping Melo. They will move him if they can get an All Star player and some young talent in return. New York and Denver could be involved in a multi-team trade involving Mickael Pietrus with the 9th pick and Carmelo Anthony at the 3rd pick.




http://www.nbadraft.net/draftbuzz008.htm


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

Getting Camby and White for Sabas and the #23 would be a fascinating move. Why?

-- Portland would be increasing their salary structure (since Sabas might not have a fully-guaranteed deal and Portland would be saving money by letting him retire as a Blazer)

-- Portland would be adding a guy in Rodney White who plays the same spot as Bonzi, DA, Qyntel and RP

-- Sabas would be truly retired (it seems) 

-- Portland's roster would be more primed than ever for another big trade

From a basketball perspective, especially if Sabas is REALLY leaving: this would be a VERY GOOD deal. Camby's injury-prone but a starting-caliber 5 and White's not my favorite prospect of all time but he DOES have some potential.

Hrmm...

Ed O.


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## Peaceman (Jan 15, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Ed O</b>!
> Getting Camby and White for Sabas and the #23 would be a fascinating move. Why?
> 
> -- Portland would be increasing their salary structure (since Sabas might not have a fully-guaranteed deal and Portland would be saving money by letting him retire as a Blazer)
> ...


Adding talent without any risk sound good, but how could we field like 13-14 good players? There has to be some trade already setup, or it wouldn't make sense. Camby and White couldn't be traded this summer, but we have a lot of players with high saleries that will be hard to get one player back in return. Unless we are going to get a monster contract like KG, we will still be to deep.


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## Paxil (Jan 1, 2003)

Camby/White for Sabas/23rd Pick (Outlaw) seems like a decent deal to me. Sure that 23rd pick *could* turn into something... but more likely it is a bust. Camby is nothing special, but power fowards that play center are hard to come by.


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## Yega1979 (Mar 22, 2003)

Milic and Pavel are dropped out of the draft, how can we be sure Carmello will be available?


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Gym Rat</b>!
> Here are the details:
> Camby/White for Sabas/23rd Pick (Outlaw)
> 
> Forget the dream of MELO... FORK!



AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH


thats a good one Denver.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Gym Rat</b>!
> Too bad... about Melo but Camby ain't bad...


name me (outside of the 50 game season) a season where Camby played more than 65 games....


thanks, but no thanks.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Peaceman</b>!
> 
> Adding talent without any risk sound good, but how could we field like 13-14 good players? There has to be some trade already setup, or it wouldn't make sense. Camby and White couldn't be traded this summer, but we have a lot of players with high saleries that will be hard to get one player back in return. Unless we are going to get a monster contract like KG, we will still be to deep.


I don't disagree with anything you said here... it fact, it was my first thought (well not TOO deep... I don't think that's a possibility).

BUT... whether we keep Sabonis and our first rounder or trade for Camby and White, we have the same number of players. I guess the main difference is that White and Camby are closer to their primes than Sabas and the 1st rounder... although Camby's history indicates he'd be hurt half the year, anyways so that might cancel that out.

Ed O.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Hap</b>!
> 
> name me (outside of the 50 game season) a season where Camby played more than 65 games....


65 games of Camby would be better than no games of Sabonis, and White is probably worth more than the #23 pick.

I think that it would be a potentially awesome move, and I don't see any downside.

Ed O.


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## Peaceman (Jan 15, 2003)

I wonder if we do make this trade with Denver, would any of you people who were against the Toronto deal ( Sheed + #4 for AD and Hakeem), like this trade now? With Camby and AD we gain some of the defense we lost with Sheed and get Bosh and White and new prospects.


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## ProudBFan (Apr 29, 2003)

OMG! I FIGURED IT OUT!!!

1. Kiki Vandeweghe trades us Camby, Hilario, and the #3 for Rasheed and the #23. (Hilario is needed to make the salaries match and, remember, the Blazers were hot for him last summer.) 

2. Kiki gets run out of Denver on a rail. 

3. Kiki and his "Special Assistant to the General Manager" (i.e., Clyde Drexler) run straight up to Portland and the waiting arms of the Blazers - and the thousands of adoring fans waiting to welcome them as heroes. 

So with this one move, the Blazers get rid of Sheed, get the #3 pick and Carmelo, get Hilario, get their new GM, AND bring Clyde back to the Blazers where he belongs!!! 

:joke:

PBF


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## Gym Rat (Dec 30, 2002)

SWEET!



> Originally posted by <b>ProudBFan</b>!
> OMG! I FIGURED IT OUT!!!
> 
> 1. Kiki Vandeweghe trades us Camby, Hilario, and the #3 for Rasheed and the #23. (Hilario is needed to make the salaries match and, remember, the Blazers were hot for him last summer.)
> ...


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## Peaceman (Jan 15, 2003)

On the 8:00 SC, DA repeated the Denver rumor and said Portland is very active in this draft rumors and that Sheed was in several deals. He didn't say anything specific :upset: but maybe that Sabonis/Camby is the first two or three deals. Whitsett keeping us on pins and needles one last time.


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## Dathomieyouhate (Jun 21, 2003)

that is a crazyy a$$ trade rumor... but interesting non the less.


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## Gym Rat (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Peaceman</b>!
> On the 8:00 SC, DA repeated the Denver rumor and said Portland is very active in this draft rumors and that Sheed was in several deals. He didn't say anything specific :upset: but maybe that Sabonis/Camby is the first two or three deals. Whitsett keeping us on pins and needles one last time.


Camby/White for Sabas/23rd Pick (Outlaw)

Like I said earlier. DA did say this during the draft preview show. It is confirmed that is the rumor. A RUMOR... anything can happen still!


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## ThatBlazerGuy (May 1, 2003)

i like that rumor alot more than Camby for 23 and sabas


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## Trader Ed (Jun 17, 2002)

I can understand your points, and they are very good ones. But there is a part of me that says I would rather have Sabas or no Sabas than Camby. I would hate to see him have us trade him and he never come back to the NBA. He has said that he only wants to play for us.. correct me if I am wrong CFFI or Stuart...

so I think it would be a bit of treason on our part to do this. I understand the business side of it though, and I think it would not be popular either. Remember the PR side of it.


But please remember 10-12 years down the line... he has 3 boys who will probably be very tall and good ball players. Would a dad who felt betrayed want his sons to play for us?


Camby and Rodney White.... big deal....


Rodney White would be very redundant, and Camby would not play very much according to history. If they are so sure Sabas would retire, I see no sense why Kiki would do it... other than to get a few more million off the salary books..

but if he wants to do that.. trade the #3 pick for Sheed... he could sign one more FA, maybe two this year...

then next year make a run at Garnett or Brand, when Wallace salary comes off the books fully. :wave:




DENVER"S SALARIES
http://www.hoopshype.com/salaries/denver.htm

Shows Denvers salaries currently at $46.3 mill
I believe SCBF noted some of those have been renounced, so they come off the salary numbers..

I believe if they should renounce Juwan Howard's $20.1 mill tomorrow, they will be further below the cap. Expediating the salry off the books. But maybe they did already.

So they could do Sheed as well.

I really want that #3 pick...


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Trader Bob</b>!
> so I think it would be a bit of treason on our part to do this. I understand the business side of it though, and it woudl not be popular either. Remember the PR side of it.


Sabas has already announced (albeit informally) that he's done with the NBA.



> Camby and Rodney White.... big deal....
> 
> Rodney White would be very redundant, and Camby would not play very much according to history.


Camby is very good when healthy. Even if he's only healthy half the season, that's a half of a good player. And there's a chance that he (like DA before him) will be able to stay GENERALLY healthy for a season, and in that case Camby would be an incredible steal for Portland.

Rodney White turns 23 this weekend, and showed some flashes of brilliance this past year with the Nuggets. He's no sure-thing, but he could still be a serious player in the NBA.



> If they are so sure Sabas would retire, I see no sense why Kiki would do it... other than to get a few more million off the salary books..
> 
> but if he wants to do that.. trade the #3 pick for Sheed... he could sign one more FA, maybe two this year...


You can't be serious... can you? Sabonis would potentially give them additional cap space NOW ... not next summer. Plus they don't have to give up the #3 pick to get that space.

Ed O.


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## ThatBlazerGuy (May 1, 2003)

i totally agree with Ed O.

Chances are, the 23rd pick WILL NOT be better than Rodney White. 

And Camby is the ideal backup center. He got 21 minutes this year, and got 7 boards and 7 rebounds


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## Gym Rat (Dec 30, 2002)

What about the "character" of both of these guys? I really can't remember hearing anything BAD. Anyone?


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## ProudBFan (Apr 29, 2003)

> And Camby is the ideal backup center. He got 21 minutes this year, and got 7 boards and 7 rebounds


Wow, that's some pretty good board-work for 21 minutes. But... I'm intrigued about something... What's the difference between a "board" and a "rebound"?

:devil: 

PBF


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## Kmurph (May 7, 2003)

This is just a bad move IMO, if we are going after the #3 as part of this deal (using Sheed) then I am all for it, but otherwise forget it. Camby is a nice player, WHEN HEALTHY, which is the problem with him, like DA, he ALWAYS seems to go down with some type of injury, White has been bounced to what? his 3rd team now since being drafted and has shown little to date. Not to mention the RIDICULOUS redundancy of players\positions we have. I thought the consensus was we had TOO MANY players wanting to play as it is. Good grief!  What the hell is POR trying to accomplish here? Does Bob get it? b\c if this deal goes down, it tells me that he most certainly does not. :sour:


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## Petey (Aug 23, 2002)

*Re: Hot Hot Rmor From Sc!!!*



> Originally posted by <b>Schilly</b>!
> Portland and Denver are in serious talks about this deal
> 
> Rasheed and #23
> ...


Well they are under the cap this year, so if they traded for him, I am sure they will sign him long term or try their best to.

-Petey


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## Trader Ed (Jun 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Ed O</b>!
> Sabas has already announced (albeit informally) that he's done with the NBA...
> 
> You can't be serious... can you? Sabonis would potentially give them additional cap space NOW ... not next summer. Plus they don't have to give up the #3 pick to get that space.
> ...


has there been an English language interview with him saying he will not play for s next year?

There was an article a while back with Sabas mentioning he would play for his own team in Europe next year, but it was done in another language. We had several threads on this... none, conclusive...

there was even mention (by his US agent) that it was possibly translated wrong, and he would still entertain playing for us...

Perhaps I missed the boat on this, but I do not recall his apparent leaving us being finite yet...



Which leads me to his contract and Kiki..

Sabas has an option on his 2nd and 3rd years right?
And if a player retires the team still has to pay the contract if its guarenteed money correct?

So I ask you Ed... whose option is it this next year? player or team?
Is it guarenteed or not?


(http://www.dfw.net/~patricia/index.html) 

DENVER 2002/03 salaries
Camby has a salary of $6.75 mill now 
Rodney White $1.8 mill
Total = $8.3 mill

2002/03 salaries
Sabas = $6.85 mill


yes, I am serious...
So if this deal goes down Thursday, Denver saves $1.45 mill in salary for next year... assuming the salaries remain proportional

whoo hoo...

Maybe I am missing something here... saving $1.45 mill in salary for a player who may or may no be retired is not exactly earth shattering to me... although every little bit helps

on the flip side, we gain more roster clutter, and we spend $2.9 mill with luxury tax on players who do not have as much impact on our team as when Sabs is in the lineup. Sabas is simply amazing. And if Camby does his best Sam Bowie impression he will not make it past pre season... I agree he is very talented, but Bowie had his moments too.


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## Trader Ed (Jun 17, 2002)

Kiki was on the Jim Rome show this morning....

He is listening to offers for the #3 pick, but he has not come across any that he would do...

he also said he listens to the rumors mills for ideas... he hears them, then checks them out.


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## barfo (Jan 2, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hap</b>!
> 
> 
> name me (outside of the 50 game season) a season where Camby played more than 65 games....


Well, I was going to point out that he played more than 65 games in the 50 game season...

I've never seen Camby play (hmm, I wonder why that is?) but one thing I notice from his stat sheet - besides the games played - is that he is one lousy free thrower. Under 65% lifetime.

barfo


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Trader Bob</b>!
> 
> yes, I am serious...
> So if this deal goes down tomorrow, Denver saves $1.45 mill in salary for next year... assuming the salaries remain proportional
> ...


Even IF it's only $1.45m, it still might make sense for the Nuggets to do it if they love Outlaw (since they won't use the #3 on him, and they don't have another pick until #46).

With that said, it's been reported several times (remember that Bucks rumor?) that Sabonis only has a partial guarantee on his contract. If that's the case, and he retires, or if he's cut, his whole salary won't count against the cap... so Denver might save significantly more that just under $1.5m.

I don't have any information about Sabonis's retirement or lack thereof, but it seems more than coincidence that he was quoted as saying that he was done with the NBA because he thought the team was going in another direction and then he's rumored to be traded. It might be mere coincidence, but the pieces seem to fit too well.

As far as ripping on Camby's health when the team is rumored to be trading Sabonis to get him: I'm not buying it. Sabonis only played 15.5 minutes last year because his body is just too broken down, and while the chances that Camby (at age 29) will get healthy aren't great, they're a heck of a lot better than Sabonis's chances at age 38.

Camby is not an all-star, and he's not an all-star because of his injury-prone nature. That's the ONLY reason that the Blazers would be able to get him for nothing, and I think he'd be an excellent gamble because the risk is so low and the reward is so high.

Ed O.


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## hasoos (Jan 3, 2003)

*Here is how I look at it*

1. At some point, we have to move past Sabonis. Sabonis has been a great player, but the guy is getting older, missing more games, playing less minutes, all the time. He has to retire at some point.
2. If Sabonis is going to retire, why not get something for him. A lot of you are forgetting that Rodney White is in this deal. Rodney White is a player who came out of college too early, and needs time to develope. He has a few years of upside before he hits his prime, and although he has struggled in the league so far, he is improving. He is a tremendous athlete, and he is a pretty good defender. He does not shoot that great, but he is improving. 
3. Camby is a good player when healthy, but that is not often. He would be a good back up. He would be a good player to bring in when you need to try to shut down somebody like Dirk Nowitzki (like he can be shut down..) or to minimize the damage that a larger player can do inside. He is a tremendous rebounder. 
4. There is a good chance that we would not obtain any good players at 23. 
5. Maybe, just maybe, this is leading up to another deal being done. Sometimes the deal doesn't just stop at deal #1. Maybe there is more then one trade to this scenario.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

*Re: Here is how I look at it*



> Originally posted by <b>hasoos</b>!
> 
> 5. Maybe, just maybe, this is leading up to another deal being done. Sometimes the deal doesn't just stop at deal #1. Maybe there is more then one trade to this scenario.


This is a key point, and while I would be happy JUST to make this deal, I think that the reality is that the Blazers would just be positioning for another deal that would make the fans would would immediately dig up Camby's behavior issues in Denver look past his injuries and such and focus on the other deal.

Mere speculation, of course, but it seems logical.

Ed O.


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## Trader Ed (Jun 17, 2002)

I guess getting Rodney is the bonus.. and if Camby does play, its even better. He can ride the IR

I just do not like the added salary (not that its my money)

Camby has a player option in 2004/05
White has a team optionin 2004/05 and needs to receive a qualifying one in the last year of his contract

Rodney White, 6'-9" F
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/rodney_white/index.html?nav=page

had a triple double, but #3 in turnovers per 48... but he is a rookie right?

79.1 FT%.. not too bad...
40.3 FG%
23.8 3FG%. ouch....



I guess I am holding out for the #23 pick being a tall PG with some skill like Ridnour or Barbosa or ?

I would think that would be more valuable to us in the long run. 

Camby can just leave next year if he does not pick up his player option, no questions asked... giving us an expiring contract by player option.

so if Sabas is partially guarenteed, why not have us take that non guarenteed money this year as expiring money?


and yes, there does seem to be some other things brewing to coincide with this..


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## Goldmember (May 24, 2003)

Aldrige said on sportscenter that the potential deal is Rasheed for Camby. He didn't mention the number 3 pick being involved. That deal is aweful.


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## blazerfan4life (Dec 31, 2002)

i would rather us get a center than another player who will sit behind others for playing time...a center is what we need in the worse way


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## lesanecrooks7 (Jun 5, 2003)

Why dont we just give you Carmelo and Nene for your 2nd rounder and Ruben Patterson.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>lesanecrooks7</b>!
> Why dont we just give you Carmelo and Nene for your 2nd rounder and Ruben Patterson.


Portland gets ripped off. Thanks, though.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

I agree with those that believe Camby and White for Sabonis and the #23 pick is a big win for Portland. Camby for Sabonis is just free talent...Sabonis isn't going to play for Portland next season, so any games Camby plays we got for no cost, in terms of talent.

That leaves Rodney White for the #23 pick. If Rodney White were a player *in* the draft, it would be considered a great draft coup and great luck to have White fall to Portland at 23. He'd join Randolph and Woods as exciting draft steals at their late drafting position.

Therefore, it's essentially a no-brainer. Free talent in Camby and a good return on a late draft pick. Adds more salary but if Allen's cool paying it, I'm cool watching Allen pay it.

If this leads to further trades, so be it. If not, Camby slides in as a nice backup front court player when healthy and White joins Randolph and Woods as The Future.


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## PorterIn2004 (Jan 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>lesanecrooks7</b>!
> Why dont we just give you Carmelo and Nene for your 2nd rounder and Ruben Patterson.


Hmm.... despite Minstrel's thoughts, I'd think very seriously about that one. I'd be willing to gamble that, particularly for Portland (given the whole PR situation), Anthony is a win over Patterson. That leaves Nene for our 2nd rounder -- seems like a fairly safe bet, too. Honestly I just don't see it happening from Denver's perspective, as much as I respect what Patterson brings to the table. It sure seems like Patterson is a good "sacrificial lamb", so to speak (in terms of the whole PR aspect). Getting Anthony back for him seems quite the PR 180 even aside from the realistic odds of Anthony being the better player of the two soon if not right away.


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## brazys (Jul 17, 2002)

*There are better ways to spend 30mln*

First, i'll say once again that Sabonis made a statement at Kaunas town counsil that he is done with nba on may 29th. That leads us to situation where Sabonis partially guaranteed 7mln contract can be traded to a team which looks for immediate cap relief.
If Portland pulls the trigger on Camby deal, services of Marcus Camby would cost them 30mln in two years: 15mln to Camby himself and 15mln of luxury tax. And that is just too much for an often-injuried backup PF.
Pack Sabonis with Ruben Patterson and you can get Latrell Sprewell, Theo Ratliff, Glenn Robinson, Eddie Jones, Brian Grant, Jalen Rose or any other overpriced veteran. Sabonis contract might even be used for sign and trade deal with Payton.
There are so many better options in this situation...:sigh:


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## ebott (Jan 7, 2003)

I'm excited about either deal.

Sheed for Camby and #3 aka Carmelo Anthony would be a dream.

Camby for Sabas and #23 would also be nice. I think Camby would do a great job backing up at pf and c. A lot better than who ever we'd get at 23 and nobody seems to know if Sabas is coming back or not.


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## Paxil (Jan 1, 2003)

I don't think Anthony will ever be as good as a player as Wallace. HOWever, Carmelo is MUCH more marketable than Wallace, who obviously has some other baggage attached, and he's younger too. If you are talking W & L's though... Wallace is surely going to help produce more for the next 3-5 years. 

Man I'd love to have some tops picks... you could trade them each year based on hype alone and put together an all-star team.

Anyway, this deal will never happen. No way. Denver will pick Carmelo, keep him and be in the lottery again like usual.


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Gym Rat</b>!
> What about the "character" of both of these guys? I really can't remember hearing anything BAD. Anyone?


Camby's heart has been questioned throughout his career, and he once took a coward's swing at the back of Danny Ferry's head minutes after being separated from him in a small dust up. I don't know much about Rodney White's character, but reading between the lines a little bit... Detroit gave up on their lottery pick after just one season and shippped him off to Denver, then one year later Denver is looking to move him again... something may be rotten in Denmark.

STOMP


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## Trader Ed (Jun 17, 2002)

If this deal were done before July 1..

We save an additional $14.9 mill in luxury tax for Sheeds contract alone... it would be Denvers salary then, not ours...


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## Masbee (Dec 31, 2002)

Another point in favor of this trade from Portland's perspective, by getting Rodney White coming back, they get a player that is much closer to contribution minutes at the swing position that any draft pick at the #23 would be. 

This allows Portland to ship Ruben Patterson out of town for any deal they can get, regardless of position, capability or future. I feel Ruben MUST be move this summer for PR reasons. He is the only literal "JailBlazer" on the team right now, had an incident during the season that got him the largest fine ever from the Blazers. 

Assuming they couldn't find a team that was willing to send anything "good" for Ruben, they could send him to a team for a bust/injured player with shorter years, just to be rid of him. Like to the Knicks for Charlie Ward or Travis Knight. With a player like White on board, and needing to get Q. Woods more chance to play, the team won't miss him.


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## Vintage (Nov 8, 2002)

Rodney White came out as a Freshman. He was a raw player, and still needs some further development. But remember, in Det., he hardly got any PT. Last year was the first time he saw adequate PT. And he did pretty well. 

If the Camby/White for Sabas/#23 is on the board, Portland should take it. It would be a great trade for them. Dunno why Denver would do it, but hell, Portland would make out like bandits. 

Camby is a good player, but has struggled with injuries. His best years was when he was playing PF for the Knicks. He could easily backup Davis/Randolph(and Sheed, should he still be here) and produce. Look at his stats, and compare it to mpg. Its pretty good. He averaged 7.6ppg and 7.2 rpg in 21.2 mpg. Those are great numbers for such little PT. 

And since Sabas is all but gone, Camby for Sabas is a win/win for Portland on talent. White for #23 is also a win/win. You wont get a better player at #23. White was the #7 pick a few years ago, and for a reason. He will be a good player in the L.

Doing this, your future is set at the 2-4 with Woods/White/Randolph. Which, IMO, is better than Woods/Outlaw/Randolph. Or whomever you could get at #23.

If this is offered, Portland will probably accept, and the GM will look like a genious.


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

Sabas' contract status can be restructured to come off the books this summer if he retires...It's some kind of funky clause, but then Denver picks up an additionl $8mil in cap space for FA's.


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## Vintage (Nov 8, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Schilly</b>!
> Sabas' contract status can be restructured to come off the books this summer if he retires...It's some kind of funky clause, but then Denver picks up an additionl $8mil in cap space for FA's.



Ah. But either way, Portland should do it IMO. It would be a great trade for them.


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Vintage</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> Ah. But either way, Portland should do it IMO. It would be a great trade for them.


I Totally agrre it is a good trade for Portland, as long as they know Sabas is retiring. I was giving explanation as to why it would be appealing to Denver.


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## Trader Ed (Jun 17, 2002)

agreed... but I think we are still doing them a big favor in taking Camby, even though we gain in talent. It gives them a future in extra cap maneuverability


our future could be
Barbosa, Woods, White, Randolph 


and if they do trade Sheed for the #3... Carmelo


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## Vintage (Nov 8, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Trader Bob</b>!
> agreed... but I think we are still doing them a big favor in taking Camby, even though we gain in talent. It gives them a future in extra cap maneuverability
> 
> 
> ...


Barbosa? How? The rumored deal was Camby/White for #23/Sabas.

That means "bye bye" to the 23rd pick if it falls thru. 

Im confused


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## Trader Ed (Jun 17, 2002)

I know the rumor, I just think its not worth giving up the #23 pick as well...

Camby for Sabonis is more than fair.... we need to keep the #23

thus us keeping the #23 (in theory), and possibly drafting Barbosa...


but I am just being a tab bit greedy though


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