# "100 reasons to love Rasheed Wallace"



## meru (Jul 2, 2003)

Check it out.

My fave:



> #62: Boyhood bedroom was a basketball court, complete with foul lines drawn on the floor.


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## Backboard Cam (Apr 29, 2003)

:greatjob: :greatjob:


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

Rasheed Wallace said:


> On Portland GM John Nash stating that Rasheed Wallace is more talented than Kenyon Martin, but Kenyon Martin is more tenacious: "I don't give a **** what John Nash thinks…You see where his thinking got him…You all got anything else?"


There ya go


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## sa1177 (Feb 18, 2005)

God I wish Sheed had stayed with the Hawks and Detroit never had traded for him...Sheed doesn't deserve any better then lowly ATL IMO.


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

Rasheed OT: He got his 16th Tech the other night and is sitting out tonight's game because of it. The league instituted rules this offseason with game suspension penalties for getting excessive Techs. Not coincidentally IMO, Wallace's outbursts have dropped off. 

It was always my contention that if the league really wanted to limit the amount of outbursts from the players, they should put a more valued item then mere $$$ and a FT. My suggestion was for it to count as a personal foul as well, thereby limiting the players ability to stay on the court. This solution essecially does the same thing. 

Glad to see the league proactively dealing with this situation... I don't mean just Wallace's temper, but outbursts in general.

STOMP


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## sa1177 (Feb 18, 2005)

STOMP said:


> Rasheed OT: He got his 16th Tech the other night and is sitting out tonight's game because of it. The league instituted rules this offseason with game suspension penalties for getting excessive Techs. Not coincidentally IMO, Wallace's outbursts have dropped off.
> 
> It was always my contention that if the league really wanted to limit the amount of outbursts from the players, they should put a more valued item then mere $$$ and a FT. My suggestion was for it to count as a personal foul as well, thereby limiting the players ability to stay on the court. This solution especially does the same thing. Glad to see it.
> 
> STOMP


Agreed...henceforth this new rule will be referred to affectionately as "The Rasheed Wallace" rule or the "Whiny ***** Wallace" rule, or the "Cry Baby Wallace" rule... :biggrin:


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

sa1177 said:


> Agreed...henceforth this new rule will be referred to affectionately as "The Rasheed Wallace" rule or the "Whiny ***** Wallace" rule, or the "Cry Baby Wallace" rule... :biggrin:


whatever... Wallace's outbursts were never that big a deal to me, but I do like that they curtailed that sort of stuff in general.

STOMP


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## sa1177 (Feb 18, 2005)

STOMP said:


> whatever... I was never that big a deal to me, but I like that they curtailed it... again not him per say, but in general.
> 
> STOMP


Agreed but you have to admit they did this in large part because of him...thus he deserves the naming rights.


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

sa1177 said:


> Agreed but you have to admit they did this in large part because of him...thus he deserves the naming rights.


I like basketball games not trivial crap. The love/hate-cult of personality thing some fans have with their idols is something I just don't relate to.

STOMP


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## sa1177 (Feb 18, 2005)

STOMP said:


> I like basketball games not trivial crap. The love/hate-cult of personality thing some fans have with their idols is something I just don't relate to.
> 
> STOMP


Fair enough...I'll happily admit I hate Sheed. FYI No NBA is worth if being one of my "idols."


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

Probably my favorite all-time Blazer is Bill Walton. A while back I recieved an authentic 1976 Walton Adidas warm up jacket as a gift. Last year a friend saw me wearing it and said he could get it autographed (he sees Bill on occation being a friend of his son Nate). I gave him a CD of a favorite band to pass along instead. I know the big guy is a music fan and why would I want him messing up my cool shirt?

As far as your Wallace feelings, you're asking the wrong guy to relate. For me (to quote a mutually favorite band of Bill's and mine)... "Ain't no time to hate" 

STOMP


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

STOMP said:


> Probably my favorite all-time Blazer is Bill Walton. A while back I recieved an authentic 1976 Walton Adidas warm up jacket as a gift. Last year a friend saw me wearing it and said he could get it autographed (he sees Bill on occation being a friend of his son Nate). I gave him a CD of a favorite band to pass along instead. I know the big guy is a music fan and why would I want him messing up my cool shirt?
> 
> STOMP


you should see if you can find out if the rumor (that I'm just now making up) that Bill is rumored to be part of a group interested in buying the Blazers is true.

Either that or if he would let me interview him like I did MB...

:angel:


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## ryanjend22 (Jan 23, 2004)

people on this board hate rasheed wallace...i dont get it.

he is and probably will be my favorite player in the league for years to come.


too many people here act like you cant play with some attitude. to be honest, i dont enjoy watching a player who keeps a straight face and just gets it done. i like that player who gets vocal and gets technicals...who talks some s**t...

like it or not, rasheed wallace was one of the best things to ever happen to the blazers.

i know im going to get a comment or two on this but its whatever. i just get sick of everybody blaming everything on rasheed.

sheed > your favorite player. :clap:


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

SMiLE said:


> you should see if you can find out if the rumor (that I'm just now making up) that Bill is rumored to be part of a group interested in buying the Blazers is true.
> 
> Either that or if he would let me interview him like I did MB...
> 
> :angel:


Walton would probably buy the team just to run them in the ground more (if thats possible) because he's still bitter about the treatment he got for an injury while he was here...

He was probably never injured just stoned...

But thats Bill I guess...


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

zagsfan20 said:


> Walton would probably buy the team just to run them in the ground more (if thats possible) because he's still bitter about the treatment he got for an injury while he was here...
> 
> He was probably never injured just stoned...
> 
> But thats Bill I guess...


http://www.nba.com/history/players/walton_bio.html

_"But dozens of injuries, most infamously a *chronic*ally broken bone in his left foot, robbed Walton of the storybook career that seemed sure to be his."_

:clown: 

STOMP


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## sa1177 (Feb 18, 2005)

STOMP said:


> Probably my favorite all-time Blazer is Bill Walton. A while back I recieved an authentic 1976 Walton Adidas warm up jacket as a gift. Last year a friend saw me wearing it and said he could get it autographed (he sees Bill on occation being a friend of his son Nate). I gave him a CD of a favorite band to pass along instead. I know the big guy is a music fan and why would I want him messing up my cool shirt?
> 
> As far as your Wallace feelings, you're asking the wrong guy to relate. For me (to quote a mutually favorite band of Bill's and mine)... "Ain't no time to hate"
> 
> STOMP


No worries I wasn't asking you or anyone else to "relate." Just mentioning I hate Sheed...I know who to look for here if I want to "relate" with someone.


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## mgb (Jun 26, 2004)

STOMP said:


> http://www.nba.com/history/players/walton_bio.html
> 
> _"But dozens of injuries, most infamously a *chronic*ally broken bone in his left foot, robbed Walton of the storybook career that seemed sure to be his."_
> 
> ...


Injuries kept us from seeing one of the best centers of all time receive that title because he had such a short career.

Don't even get me started with Rasheed. It's about much more than his techs.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

mgb said:


> Injuries kept us from seeing one of the best centers of all time receive that title because he had such a short career.


it also kept us from seeing the true Walton.


OOOh..were you talking about Walton? I thought you meant Sabonis.


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## blue32 (Jan 13, 2006)

ryanjend22 said:


> people on this board hate rasheed wallace...i dont get it.
> 
> he is and probably will be my favorite player in the league for years to come.
> 
> ...



Dude, I applaud you. Sheed has been my favorite player for YEARS. The dude's "f-U" I'm here to kick-*** attitude ROCKS. The guy's stroke is bad-***, and he can D-up the best of em. I freakin' love Sheed.

To whom ever said he didn't deserve to play on the Pistons is a moron. He's a great contributer to the Pistons. Just because he isnt some politically correct softy like Tim Duncan (BLAHHHHHH) doesn't mean he's not a great player and cant play on that team.

I've said it once, I'll say it again, Sheed got me into basketball way back when he was on the Blazers.....thanks to him, I'm a die-hard blazer fan, and now of course a little leaguer fan of the pistons. ( i mainly just watch for sheed ).

He's a helluva nice guy in person too.....


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## BealzeeBob (Jan 6, 2003)

blue32 said:


> Dude, I applaud you. Sheed has been my favorite player for YEARS. The dude's "f-U" I'm here to kick-*** attitude ROCKS. The guy's stroke is bad-***, and he can D-up the best of em. I freakin' love Sheed.
> 
> To whom ever said he didn't deserve to play on the Pistons is a moron. He's a great contributer to the Pistons. Just because he isnt some politically correct softy like Tim Duncan (BLAHHHHHH) doesn't mean he's not a great player and cant play on that team.
> 
> ...


TD is a softy and Wallace is a badass.

Okey-Dokey 

Go Blazers


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## blue32 (Jan 13, 2006)

LOL, i've never seen TD hustle the ref's or get in someones face cuz he got elbowed. he just silently does his work. lol @ the rolleyes.


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## mook (Dec 31, 2002)

love them or hate them, it'd be a much poorer league without personalities like Rasheed, Artest and Charles Barkley. there are so precious few pro athletes who say anything beyond cliche--we should be grateful for every weird one of them.


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## sa1177 (Feb 18, 2005)

ryanjend22 said:


> people on this board hate rasheed wallace...i dont get it.
> 
> he is and probably will be my favorite player in the league for years to come.
> 
> ...


Playing with attitude is one thing if you channel it in the right direction..obviously Sheed could not accomplish this. 

Sheed "one of the best things to ever happen to the Blazers" :rofl: YEH RIGHT..I am sure we'll be retiring his # then. :rofl: 

I don't "blame" everything on Rasheed, I just blame Rasheed for being the out of control ahole that he is and was. 

If you hung around Sheed every day you would realize he isn't really the "nice guy" you think he is. Not a ahole by any means either but certainly not a "nice guy."


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## sa1177 (Feb 18, 2005)

blue32 said:


> Dude, I applaud you. Sheed has been my favorite player for YEARS. The dude's "f-U" I'm here to kick-*** attitude ROCKS. The guy's stroke is bad-***, and he can D-up the best of em. I freakin' love Sheed.
> 
> *To whom ever said he didn't deserve to play on the Pistons is a moron. He's a great contributer to the Pistons. Just because he isnt some politically correct softy like Tim Duncan (BLAHHHHHH) doesn't mean he's not a great player and cant play on that team.*
> 
> ...


I think it's pretty clear who the "moron" is here. How many times has Duncan abused Sheed like his lil' *****? 

Sheed not deserving to play for the Pistons has nothing to do with what he now contributes to the Pistons.


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## Foulzilla (Jan 11, 2005)

sa1177 said:


> Sheed not deserving to play for the Pistons has nothing to do with what he now contributes to the Pistons.


I'm sorry, I don't understand this statement. He plays for the Pistons and because of it they are one of the best teams in the league. Without him, they wouldn't have a champioinship or be in the finals last year. How exactly can he not deserve to play for them?

For the record, Rasheed plays better defense on Duncan then most the rest of the league (actually I can't think of anyone who does better, but I'm not positive of that without doing some research). Duncan is however, the best PF in the league so even when played well he can have a significant impact.


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## sa1177 (Feb 18, 2005)

Foulzilla said:


> I'm sorry, I don't understand this statement. He plays for the Pistons and because of it they are one of the best teams in the league. Without him, they wouldn't have a champioinship or be in the finals last year. How exactly can he not deserve to play for them?
> 
> For the record, Rasheed plays better defense on Duncan then most the rest of the league (actually I can't think of anyone who does better, but I'm not positive of that without doing some research). Duncan is however, the best PF in the league so even when played well he can have a significant impact.


If you read my earlier posts you'll see that my point was that Sheed never deserved to even go to the Pistons. Thus how he has played for them doesn't matter. 

Basically I was saying Sheed never did a damn thing to deserve getting traded to a championship caliber team. Staying in ATL was what he deserved IMO.


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## RedHot&Rolling (Jun 26, 2004)

Funny how people don't see the same thing in the same way....

I despise Rashweed Wallace for what HE did to the Blazers. He gave us a bad name with his technical's and ejections. He was given the reigns of the team and told to go win. Instead he lolligagged through the regular season and then wouldn't take the reigns come playoff time. You couldn't count on him to rise up and be the man (like Duncan) in crunch time. Rashweed preferred to float out to the three-point line and jack up shots instead of establishing a low post presence for his teammates to take advantage of. 

He is (was) talented enough to be one of the greats of the game. Unfortunately, he didn't have the mental capacity to sieze the moment.

He's a good player on a great team. But, that team was really good before he arrived.


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

sa1177 said:


> If you read my earlier posts you'll see that my point was that Sheed never deserved to even go to the Pistons. Thus how he has played for them doesn't matter.
> 
> Basically I was saying Sheed never did a damn thing to deserve getting traded to a championship caliber team. Staying in ATL was what he deserved IMO.


to quote Clint from Unforgiven... "Deserves got nothing to do with it" 

STOMP


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

sa1177 said:


> Basically I was saying Sheed never did a damn thing to deserve getting traded to a championship caliber team. Staying in ATL was what he deserved IMO.


He played excellent defense and very good offense. Seems like basketball accomplishments are what matter in whether you get selected to play for a basketball team.

And clearly, the Pistons were smart to snag Wallace. 

Worked out great for everyone except the Blazers and Hawks.


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## barfo (Jan 2, 2003)

sa1177 said:


> Basically I was saying Sheed never did a damn thing to deserve getting traded to a championship caliber team. Staying in ATL was what he deserved IMO.


You must not hate him all that much, then, or you'd say that staying in Portland was what he deserved.

Actually, he did do something to deserve being traded to Detroit. He played well enough that Detroit wanted him. Detroit actively traded *for* Rasheed. He wasn't forced upon them. 

barfo


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## mook (Dec 31, 2002)

he was the best player we had on two Western Conference Finals teams. it may be fifteen years before we get there again, folks. 

this is from NBA.com: 
* Selected to third All-Star team 02/09/06
* Recorded his 5,000th career rebound on 12/3/05 vs. Chicago
* Teamed with Ben Wallace to form the fifth-best block shot duo in the league (3.84 bpg) in 2005
* Recorded at least one block in all but 16 games in 2005
* Named NBA Community Assist Award winner for February, 2005 for his “Student Achiever Program” and “Sheed’s Squad” ticket giveaway
* Recorded a playoff career-high five blocks in Game 2 of the Eastern Conference Finals at Indiana on 5/24/04
* Scored a 2004 playoff-high 26 points on 10-of-23 shooting with 13 rebounds in Game 4 of the NBA Finals vs. LA Lakers (6/13)
* Named to the NBA Western Conference All-Star Team in 2000 and 2001
* Finished second to Orlando's Darrell Armstrong in voting for the NBA's Sixth Man Award in 1998-99 after ranking sixth in the league in field goal percentage at .508 and finishing second on the team in scoring (12.8 ppg) and third in rebounding (4.9 rpg) and blocks (1.10 bpg)
* Named to the 1995-96 NBA All-Rookie Second Team after averaging 10.1 ppg and 4.7 rpg
* Participated in the Schick NBA Rookie Game during the 1996 NBA All-Star Weekend in San Antonio, scoring 12 points, including the winning basket for the Eastern Conference

three all-star teams. a top player on four conference finals teams. two finals appearances. one championship. 

nope, he doesn't deserve any of the success he's had with the Pistons.


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## mook (Dec 31, 2002)

RedHot&Rolling said:


> I despise Rashweed Wallace for what HE did to the Blazers.


quick poll: am I the only one who never reads the rest of any post when a poster makes a stupid and overused joke with the player's name? ("Frobe", "Rashweed," etc)

it's sort of like trying to have a conversation with someone who is eating with their mouth open. they may have the most brilliant, insightful point in the world, but all I can think of is, "Ick."

guess that seems a little ironic, given my avatar and handle.


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## sa1177 (Feb 18, 2005)

theWanker said:


> he was the best player we had on two Western Conference Finals teams. it may be fifteen years before we get there again, folks.
> 
> this is from NBA.com:
> * Selected to third All-Star team 02/09/06
> ...


His performance on the floor has nothing to do with the reasons why I feel he is not deserving of playing on a championship team. Guess it comes down to the fact that I would much rather see a nice guy winning a NBA championship ring then a bum like Rasheed. 

Wasn't Sheed something like 0-14 in 4th quarter in the infamous meltdown against the Lakers. As noted by someone else earlier..Sheed never raised his game in the playoffs and thus the team never realized it's potential IMO.


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## RedHot&Rolling (Jun 26, 2004)

Please, disregard my inference to hannibus in his name. Please consider all other points made.

Nice Giraffe!


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## Foulzilla (Jan 11, 2005)

sa1177 said:


> If you read my earlier posts you'll see that my point was that Sheed never deserved to even go to the Pistons. Thus how he has played for them doesn't matter.
> 
> Basically I was saying Sheed never did a damn thing to deserve getting traded to a championship caliber team. Staying in ATL was what he deserved IMO.


And I was saying that his play is the reason he deserves to be on a championship caliber team. Because him being there is one of the reasons they are championship caliber. 

Your earlier posts don't show me any reason why he didn't deserve to go to the Pistons. The only information I could get out of them was "I hate Rasheed".


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## barfo (Jan 2, 2003)

sa1177 said:


> His performance on the floor has nothing to do with the reasons why I feel he is not deserving of playing on a championship team. Guess it comes down to the fact that I would much rather see a nice guy winning a NBA championship ring then a bum like Rasheed.


Ok, so you hate him for something other than basketball. Fine, but basketball is what determines champions, not whatever mysterious grudge you are holding against him.



sa1177 said:


> If you hung around Sheed every day you would realize he isn't really the "nice guy" you think he is. Not a ahole by any means either but certainly not a "nice guy."


Did you hang around Sheed every day? If so, please fill us in. 

barfo


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## tlong (Jan 6, 2003)

ryanjend22 said:


> people on this board hate rasheed wallace...i dont get it.
> 
> he is and probably will be my favorite player in the league for years to come.
> 
> ...


Agreed. Everyone in Portland tried to make Sheed a leader, which is just not him. I was happy with what he was...one of the best complimentary players the league has ever seen.


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## sa1177 (Feb 18, 2005)

Foulzilla said:


> And I was saying that his play is the reason he deserves to be on a championship caliber team. Because him being there is one of the reasons they are championship caliber.
> 
> Your earlier posts don't show me any reason why he didn't deserve to go to the Pistons. The only information I could get out of them was "I hate Rasheed".


I suppose I should have explained that I don't think he deserved a championship due to his actions off the court rather then his actions on it. Like I said earlier, I would rather see a nice guy win a ring then a ahole. 

This is the reason I hope Artest, Barry Bonds, T.O., Todd Bertuzzi etc....never win rings. 

And yes I hate Rasheed that's no secret.


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## sa1177 (Feb 18, 2005)

barfo said:


> Ok, so you hate him for something other than basketball. Fine, but basketball is what determines champions, not whatever mysterious grudge you are holding against him.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


My friend Brian Fachini was the Blazers PR assistant for a number of years. Thus he would often travel with the team go out with the team after games etc. I probably went out with him and various players 50+ times over the couple years he was there before he moved to the Spurs. The big spot back then was the Shadow Room downtown or sometimes Stars Cabaret. Sheed was sometimes friendly and sometimes rude. He would often be-little people to make others laugh at their exspense. He wasn't particulary friendly to Brian or the rest of his staff who was simply their to serve the players. Alot of other guys were very friendly to us...D.A., Damon among others. 

Damon did try to take one of my friends sisters home once and we almost came to blows when we told Damon she wasn't going with him. She was underage and at the bar with a fake ID. He apologized to us and her a couple days later and blew it off on being really drunk.

And "basketball" isn't the only thing that determines champions, team cohesion, fan support plays a factor as well IMO and Sheed was detrimental to both those areas while here in Portland.


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

sa1177 said:


> His performance on the floor has nothing to do with the reasons why I feel he is not deserving of playing on a championship team. Guess it comes down to the fact that I would much rather see a nice guy winning a NBA championship ring then a bum like Rasheed.


Fair enough. I'd rather a lot of things be different then they are. Basketball players aren't the guys that get me upset. Personally I get more riled up watching the our environment deteriorate, but whatever...



> Wasn't Sheed something like 0-14 in 4th quarter in the infamous meltdown against the Lakers. As noted by someone else earlier..Sheed never raised his game in the playoffs and thus the team never realized it's potential IMO.


Sheed didn't miss 14 shots that game. He had 30 points on 13-26 shooting...
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/boxscores/2000/06/04/lal_por/

overall his regular season and playoff stats are virtually identical...
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/rasheed_wallace/index.html?nav=page

I'm pretty positive that while in Portland his playoff numbers were in fact above his regular season numbers.

STOMP


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## sa1177 (Feb 18, 2005)

STOMP said:


> Fair enough. I'd rather a lot of things be different then they are. Basketball players aren't the guys that get me upset. Personally I get more riled up watching the our environment deteriorate, but whatever...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I was guessing on the 0-14 but I could have sworn he was 0-(double digits) in the 4th quarter of that game. I stand corrected though it seems Sheed did have 1 FG in the 4th quarter of that game. 

And the Enviromental problems of today make me furious as well, I was a Envr. Sci. major back in college. This is a sports forum though so here my hatred is directed at Sheed.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

wasn't rasheed traded like 2 years ago?

can't we ****ing let this go finally?


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## RedHot&Rolling (Jun 26, 2004)

SMiLE said:


> wasn't rasheed traded like 2 years ago?
> 
> can't we ****ing let this go finally?


Stay outa this, Hap-Meister, this love/hate fest has nothing to do with you!!!

OK, resume the flogging.


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## sa1177 (Feb 18, 2005)

SMiLE said:


> wasn't rasheed traded like 2 years ago?
> 
> can't we ****ing let this go finally?


you can close the thread anytime as far as I am concerned....

Of course someone then might call you a ****-Nazi Facist who thinks like Bush. :rofl:


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

RedHot&Rolling said:


> Stay outa this, Hap-Meister, this love/hate fest has nothing to do with you!!!
> 
> OK, resume the flogging.


you only say that just because we're related..


:biggrin:


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## Anima (Jun 3, 2003)

Reason #1 to love Sheed; He's inability to control his temper could cost the Pistons another championship.


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## sa1177 (Feb 18, 2005)

Sue? D'Oh! said:


> Reason #1 to love Sheed; He's inability to control his temper could cost the Pistons another championship.


I certainly hope a team other then Detroit or S.A. wins it this year...I would really like to see some new blood win the title. PHX or Dallas would be nice. Not to big on Miami since I am not much of a Shaq fan.


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## BlazerWookie (Mar 20, 2006)

Reason #101: He no longer wears a Blazers jersey.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

sa1177 said:


> His performance on the floor has nothing to do with the reasons why I feel he is not deserving of playing on a championship team. Guess it comes down to the fact that I would much rather see a nice guy winning a NBA championship ring then a bum like Rasheed.


Sheed has been an active member in the community, helping the underpriviledged, both in Portland and Detroit (no word on Atlanta). He's also supposedly a good and dedicated father.

IMO, that weighs more heavily in terms of his character then whether he was "sometimes polite, sometimes rude" around your friend.



> As noted by someone else earlier..Sheed never raised his game in the playoffs and thus the team never realized it's potential IMO.


Noted incorrectly. He averaged over 30 PPG in the Western Conference Finals against the Lakers in 2000 and the next year he played great defense against Shaq in the playoffs while putting up efficiency numbers that rivaled Shaq's.


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## RedHot&Rolling (Jun 26, 2004)

> [_As noted by someone else earlier..Sheed never raised his game in the playoffs and thus the team never realized it's potential IMO_





Minstrel said:


> ........Noted incorrectly. He averaged over 30 PPG in the Western Conference Finals against the Lakers in 2000 and the next year he played great defense against Shaq in the playoffs while putting up efficiency numbers that rivaled Shaq's.


Rasheed's career stats and playoff stats:
Career 784 725 34.6 .482 .337 .711 1.7 5.3 6.9 2.0 .97 1.30 1.76 3.00 15.8
Playoff 98 98 35.9 .455 .343 .721 1.8 4.9 6.7 1.7 .87 1.37 1.46 3.60 15.3

Please note that FG% down from .482 to .455 in playoffs, Rebounds down, Assists down, Steals down, Points down and Fouls up.

Care to revise your statement above????


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

RedHot&Rolling said:


> Rasheed's career stats and playoff stats:
> Career 784 725 34.6 .482 .337 .711 1.7 5.3 6.9 2.0 .97 1.30 1.76 3.00 15.8
> Playoff 98 98 35.9 .455 .343 .721 1.8 4.9 6.7 1.7 .87 1.37 1.46 3.60 15.3
> 
> ...


No. His numbers from regular season to playoffs are virtually identical, outside of field goal percentage, which can be entirely attributed to playing tougher defenses in the playoffs.

The claim that he "didn't raise his game which prevented Portland from achieving great glory" is pretty clearly bunk. When Portland had its best teams, Wallace came up big in the playoffs. He was a monster in the 2000 and 2001 playoffs.


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## meru (Jul 2, 2003)

RedHot&Rolling said:


> Please note that FG% down from .482 to .455 in playoffs, Rebounds down, Assists down, Steals down, Points down and Fouls up.
> 
> Care to revise your statement above????


Why should he? You haven't refuted it. Notice that the original poster said Sheed *never* raised his game, to which Minstrel responded with concrete evidence of occasions where he did, in fact, raise his game. Unless Minstrel just made **** up, Minstrel wins. Now, you have provided evidence that _on average_ 'Sheed's numbers go down. That certainly doesn't show that he _never_ raised his game (say, for a whole series), does it? Besides, it doesn't even show that he didn't play better in the playoffs, for a number of reasons:

1. His non-playoff stats could be inflated because of putting up bigger numbers on weak teams that didn't make the playoffs a couple of years. 
2. His playoff stats are against better teams, and teams over a series, where they have a chance to devise schemes to shut him down. To the extent that he overcame that, he played well in a way that couldn't be measured in the regular season.
3. Games slow down in the playoffs. To prove his contribution declined, you would have to show not just raw points scored, but the % of his team scoring. I bet this actually goes up in the playoffs.

I'm sure there are others. Try to be a bit more thorough in your analysis before casting aspersions.


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## sa1177 (Feb 18, 2005)

Minstrel said:


> Sheed has been an active member in the community, helping the underpriviledged, both in Portland and Detroit (no word on Atlanta). He's also supposedly a good and dedicated father.
> 
> IMO, that weighs more heavily in terms of his character then whether he was "sometimes polite, sometimes rude" around your friend.
> 
> ...



My apologies but IMO...a "good person" treats *everyone* with respect not just his family members and friends.

I'll concede that Sheed may have raised his game at points in his playoff career but certainly not overall.


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## chromekilla (Aug 21, 2005)

sa1177 said:


> My apologies but IMO..but a "good person" treats *everyone* with respect not just his family members and friends.


QFT.Great post. :clap:


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## sa1177 (Feb 18, 2005)

meru said:


> Why should he? You haven't refuted it. Notice that the original poster said Sheed *never* raised his game, to which Minstrel responded with concrete evidence of occasions where he did, in fact, raise his game. Unless Minstrel just made **** up, Minstrel wins. Now, you have provided evidence that _on average_ 'Sheed's numbers go down. That certainly doesn't show that he _never_ raised his game (say, for a whole series), does it? Besides, it doesn't even show that he didn't play better in the playoffs, for a number of reasons:
> 
> 1. His non-playoff stats could be inflated because of putting up bigger numbers on weak teams that didn't make the playoffs a couple of years.
> 2. His playoff stats are against better teams, and teams over a series, where they have a chance to devise schemes to shut him down. To the extent that he overcame that, he played well in a way that couldn't be measured in the regular season.
> ...


And if you want to prove someone wrong and insult them for being so then actually prove it instead of throwing out a bunch of conjecture which might be true or might not be true. Some of the points you make may be correct but are pretty useless IMO without any statistics to back them up.


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## RedHot&Rolling (Jun 26, 2004)

meru said:


> Why should he? You haven't refuted it. Notice that the original poster said Sheed *never* raised his game, to which Minstrel responded with concrete evidence of occasions where he did, in fact, raise his game. Unless Minstrel just made **** up, Minstrel wins. Now, you have provided evidence that _on average_ 'Sheed's numbers go down. That certainly doesn't show that he _never_ raised his game (say, for a whole series), does it? Besides, it doesn't even show that he didn't play better in the playoffs, for a number of reasons:
> 
> 1. His non-playoff stats could be inflated because of putting up bigger numbers on weak teams that didn't make the playoffs a couple of years.
> 2. His playoff stats are against better teams, and teams over a series, where they have a chance to devise schemes to shut him down. To the extent that he overcame that, he played well in a way that couldn't be measured in the regular season.
> ...



I'm glad my contribution was helpful. I was thorough enough in my analysis to prove my point. Sheed wilted in MOST playoff games played for the Blazers. The stats don't lie.

I'm not sure how to respond by your conjecture above. I don't enjoy being talked to in this manner - but will simply wish you a good (better) day.


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## barfo (Jan 2, 2003)

RedHot&Rolling said:


> I'm glad my contribution was helpful. I was thorough enough in my analysis to prove my point. Sheed wilted in MOST playoff games played for the Blazers. The stats don't lie.


That's absurd. The fact that his statistics are *slightly* worse in playoff games than regular season games does not mean that he wilted, unless you mean Wilted, as in 'played like Wilt Chamberlain".

And you didn't prove your point at all. As meru pointed out, your point was logically incorrect. Your point as far as I can tell was that Minstrel should revise his opinion that Sheed at least once raised his game in the playoffs, because Sheed's playoff average is lower. That just doesn't make sense, unless you interpret 'never raised his game' to mean 'on average did not raise his game'. But by that logic I've never been younger than 10, since on average, I've been older than that.

barfo


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## RedHot&Rolling (Jun 26, 2004)

At least one time - Rasheed Wallace was a better statistical player during the playoffs than during the regular season.

On average, throughout his career, he has been worse during the playoffs.

Draw the logical conclusion from this fact. Or, you may argue in vain.


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## Anima (Jun 3, 2003)

sa1177 said:


> My apologies but IMO...a "good person" treats everyone with respect not just his family members and friends.


I seem to remember an incident with Sheed, Sabonis, and a towel that comes to mind when reading this.


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## sa1177 (Feb 18, 2005)

Sue? D'Oh! said:


> I seem to remember an incident with Sheed, Sabonis, and a towel that coming to mind when reading this.


As do I...or a throw the ball at Ruben Boom Boom and laugh your *** off with Bonzi when Ruben falls to the floor in pain. 

Sheed was kind of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde in regards to his behavior towards others IMO.


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## barfo (Jan 2, 2003)

RedHot&Rolling said:


> At least one time - Rasheed Wallace was a better statistical player during the playoffs than during the regular season.
> 
> On average, throughout his career, he has been worse during the playoffs.
> 
> Draw the logical conclusion from this fact. Or, you may argue in vain.


Well, obviously I'm arguing in vain, but not because I can't interpret facts. 

Yes, Sheed's playoff stats are slightly worse (at least arguably) than his regular season stats. 

Where we differ is that you implied that means that he "never" stepped up in the playoffs. And averages don't say anything about "never". 

barfo


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## sa1177 (Feb 18, 2005)

barfo said:


> Well, obviously I'm arguing in vain, but not because I can't interpret facts.
> 
> Yes, Sheed's playoff stats are slightly worse (at least arguably) than his regular season stats.
> 
> ...


Actually I implied that...Barfo I really expect you to pay more attention. :biggrin: I suppose I would now revise my statement to "hardly ever" raised his stats in the playoffs. Either way he never lead the team to winning a damn thing. That's beside the point though.


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## barfo (Jan 2, 2003)

sa1177 said:


> Actually I implied that...Barfo I really expect you to pay more attention. :biggrin:


Well, no - actually you flat out stated that Sheed never stepped up. But Red Hot, by quoting you, and Minstrel, and suggesting that Minstrel was wrong when he said you were wrong, implied "it", where "it" is the mistaken argument that average stats prove anything about whether he ever came up big in the playoffs.

barfo


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## sa1177 (Feb 18, 2005)

barfo said:


> Well, no - actually you flat out stated it. Red Hot, by quoting you, and Minstrel, and suggesting that Minstrel was wrong when he said you were wrong, implied it.
> 
> barfo


Well...you used the word "implied" so I was just using your lingo and not following your string of thoughts posted above. Implied, stated whatever frankly it doesn't matter..you got my point and I got yours. :biggrin:


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## barfo (Jan 2, 2003)

sa1177 said:


> Well...you used the word "implied" so I was just using your lingo and not following your string of thoughts posted above. Implied, stated whatever frankly it doesn't matter..you got my point and I got yours. :biggrin:


Ok, I can live with that.

barfo


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## sa1177 (Feb 18, 2005)

barfo said:


> Ok, I can live with that.
> 
> barfo


And with supermodels apparently. :biggrin:


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## barfo (Jan 2, 2003)

sa1177 said:


> And with supermodels apparently. :biggrin:


It makes life a lot more exciting, let me tell you. Maintenance costs are very high, however.

barfo


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)




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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

sa1177 said:


> My apologies but IMO...a "good person" treats *everyone* with respect not just his family members and friends.


The underpriviledged that he's helped in two cities all count as "family and friends?"

If you're telling me that a good person is never disrespectful to *anyone*, I disagree with you. With no context as to when he was "rude" (in your friend's eyes), I have no way to evaluate that. I _do_ evaluate his being charitable with his time and money, and being a caring father as qualities of a good person.


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## sa1177 (Feb 18, 2005)

Minstrel said:


> The underpriviledged that he's helped in two cities all count as "family and friends?"
> 
> If you're telling me that a good person is never disrespectful to *anyone*, I disagree with you. With no context as to when he was "rude" (in your friend's eyes), I have no way to evaluate that. I _do_ evaluate his being charitable with his time and money, and being a caring father as qualities of a good person.


To say beung charitable makes someone a "good person" is just silly...so anyone who donates money to a couple of charities automatically becomes a "good person." That's a total farce IMO. How many criminals, crooks, embezzlers have donated money to charities? Are they all good people now? 

Being good to those you care about (family, children etc) does not make you a "good person" but rather a good family man, father etc. 

We each define what is good or bad in our own minds and you're certainly entitled to your oppinon in that regard. 

For me it's a issue of giving each and every person a simple amount of respect, this was not important to Mr. Wallace in my eyes. Every Blazer I spent time around with the exception of Sheed and Bonzi was at least respectful to those around them 99% of the time.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

sa1177 said:


> To say beung charitable makes someone a "good person" is just silly...so anyone who donates money to a couple of charities automatically becomes a "good person." That's a total farce IMO. How many criminals, crooks, embezzlers have donated money to charities? Are they all good people now?
> 
> Being good to those you care about (family, children etc) does not make you a "good person" but rather a good family man, father etc.


I didn't say either automatically made him a good person. I said that those are qualities of a good person and are far more compelling to me than "my friend said he was sometimes rude."

Personally, I think people spuriously have decided Wallace is a bad person, and I think the verifiable evidence is more to the contrary, though I grant that it isn't conclusive.

Also, as a minor point, Wallace has given his _time_ as well as money. I don't think there are very many crooks and embezzlers who willingly give their time to the less fortunate. Again, though, I'm not saying that it automatically makes him a good person...but it's _highly_ creditable and weighs far more to the positive than the ocassional rudeness that you or your friend perceived weighs in the negative, in my opinion.


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## RedHot&Rolling (Jun 26, 2004)

sa1177 said:


> We each define what is good or bad in our own minds and you're certainly entitled to your oppinon in that regard.


Moral relativism - the root of our world's evil. We have for centuries defined good and bad by moral law (golden rule, Ten Commandments, etc.) not our own imagination. That's only happened the past 50 years or so.


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## sa1177 (Feb 18, 2005)

Minstrel said:


> I didn't say either automatically made him a good person. I said that those are qualities of a good person and are far more compelling to me than "*my friend said he was sometimes rude*."
> 
> Personally, I think people spuriously have decided Wallace is a bad person, and I think the verifiable evidence is more to the contrary, though I grant that it isn't conclusive.
> 
> Also, as a minor point, Wallace has given his _time_ as well as money. I don't think there are very many crooks and embezzlers who willingly give their time to the less fortunate. Again, though, I'm not saying that it automatically makes him a good person...but it's _highly_ creditable and weighs far more to the positive than the ocassional rudeness that you or your friend perceived weighs in the negative, in my opinion.


My friend didn't "say it" I was there...I witnessed it on multiple occasions. I am sure that is part of the reason I am so biased. Sheed was rude and disrespectful on multiple occasions to myself, my friends, my coworkers etc. 

I am sure you are aware of the Trailblazer X-mas tree give away. As a employee I helped with the give away each and every year. Players would also come out and help. So one year we are working our asses off unloading trees, loading more trees into people's cars etc. Damon, DD and Sheed show up to help...DD jumps right into the truck and starts tossing trees, Damon starts serving food to the kids and signing autographs...what does Sheed do? He stands off to the side talking on his cell phone for the entire hour never once lifting a finger to do a damn thing. 

I am sure Sheed does do positive things for other people and the community but in my mind those few things don't do much to change his overall attitude and behavior. It's a matter of oppinion I guess.


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## sa1177 (Feb 18, 2005)

RedHot&Rolling said:


> Moral relativism - the root of our world's evil. We have for centuries defined good and bad by moral law (golden rule, Ten Commandments, etc.) not our own imagination. That's only happened the past 50 years or so.


Very true....


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## tlong (Jan 6, 2003)

sa1177 said:


> To say beung charitable makes someone a "good person" is just silly...so anyone who donates money to a couple of charities automatically becomes a "good person." That's a total farce IMO. How many criminals, crooks, embezzlers have donated money to charities? Are they all good people now?
> 
> Being good to those you care about (family, children etc) does not make you a "good person" but rather a good family man, father etc.
> 
> ...


But you don't give me any respect???


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