# What is the best recruiting class ever



## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

Not for the entire year, but for one team. What is it?


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## HeinzGuderian (Jun 29, 2004)

#1 PF Brandan Wright
#1 SG Wayne Ellington
#1 PG Tywon Lawson
#3 C Deon Thompson
#13 C/PF Alex Stepheson
NR WF William Graves


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

I still don't know if you can say UNC's class beats out the fab 5. 

Webber was #1 overall. Juwan Howard, Jalen Rose, and Jimmy King were top 10 recruits. Jackson was top 100. 

UNC goes Brandan Wright, Wayne Ellington, Tywon Lawson as top 10, Deon Thompson and Alex Stephenson as roughly top 50. 

Perhaps close on paper, but I still give the edge to Michigan. Getting the #1 player in the nation, especially when it's a Chris Webber, counts for something. 

Nonetheless, there hasn't been a class this good since I've been following the recruiting scene closely (2001).


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## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

Right now, no they're aren't better. Kids haven't even played a game in their senior season.

Congratulations on Wright and a phenominal class.

BTW, at least 1 person from '05 or '06 *will* transfer. _see Michael Thompson_

Oh... how long for each player to stick around too? They only gonna get one shot at it while all of'em are together?


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

Somebody is feeling a bit burned tonight...

You're kind of going out on a limb to say that this class isn't as good as Chris Webber, Jalen Rose, and Juwan Howard are right now, don't you think? :banana: 



TM said:


> Right now, no they're aren't better. Kids haven't even played a game in their senior season.
> 
> Congratulations on Wright and a phenominal class.
> 
> ...


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## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

> I still don't know if you can say UNC's class beats out the fab 5.


just because I'm a Duke fan, doesn't mean I feel "burned."


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## mateer (Mar 26, 2003)

no school has ever recruited 3 out of the top 5 players in one class--until this year.


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## Matthew Maurer (Oct 17, 2002)

> Right now, no they're aren't better. Kids haven't even played a game in their senior season.
> 
> Congratulations on Wright and a phenominal class.
> 
> ...


North Carolina will not have any Transfers because unlike Coach K who denies his players the chance to go pro early UNC understands that it's relationship with it's players are a two way street. If you can go in the top part of the first round go. Coach K would never do that. Last year was a prime example of this. Coach Williams never publicly frowned on any of his players going pro nor did he try to stop his players from going pro. While Coach K in a similiar situation rudley blasted Magette and Avery.


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## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

Matthew Maurer said:


> North Carolina will not have any Transfers because unlike Coach K who denies his players the chance to go pro early UNC understands that it's relationship with it's players are a two way street.


I take no offense at your post because it was your opinion.

BUT... you are *wrong*.

Corey Maggette - averaged 8.4ppg, 3.9rpg, .8apg, and .31spg his first year. Not bad, but by no means spectacular. His sophmore season - 10ppg, 4.2rpg, 1.2apg, .51spg. Not bad, but by no means spectacular.

William Avery - I'm not even going to give his stats because he spent more time pulling splinters out of his rear than playing on the court. I don't even know where he's at now.

So you want to honestly say that Coach K was incorrect in telling these two players that they should stay in college? Again, you are incorrect by overstating what happened - "rudely blasted" is a bad attempt to make him sound like a ruthless dictator. And, by the way, he told them they would be better off spending some more time in college. He did NOT tell them to stay in college for 4 years.



> Coach K would never do that.


Again, you are wrong.

Elton Brand, Luol Deng, Jason Williams - all recieved K's blessing to leave.


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

Sean Livingston? Mike Dunleavy? Luol Deng? Come on, TM.

It's funny that you bring up Corey Maggette. You honesty think K wasn't attempting to push Maggette out the door once it became obvious what was coming down the pipline with him? 

How dare anybody say anything negative about coach K!


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## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

Jonathan Watters said:


> Sean Livingston? Mike Dunleavy? Luol Deng? Come on, TM.


Coach K publically told Shaun Livingston not to go to the NBA?

I honestly do not know about Mike Dunleavy. He did not graduate (until this last summer) so I know K "frowned" upon that.

Luol Deng - you are incorrect. He understood the position (with his family) Luol was in and supported his decision.



> It's funny that you bring up Corey Maggette. You honesty think K wasn't attempting to push Maggette out the door once it became obvious what was coming down the pipline with him?


a) I didn't bring up Maggette
b) I don't recall the whole situation, but didn't Maggette's interaction with Pigsty happen before he was @ Duke? So, Duke should have gotten trouble no matter what had their been a problem. But, I'm sure I'll get the old "Duke gets away with everything" bit.



> How dare anybody say anything negative about coach K!


 :laugh: 

Anytime someone defends their teams coach/players, you get the old "how dare anything negative be said about..." and for some reason, you get that response even if what that person said to correct the false statements is true. So, that's fine.


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## Matthew Maurer (Oct 17, 2002)

> Corey Maggette - averaged 8.4ppg, 3.9rpg, .8apg, and .31spg his first year. Not bad, but by no means spectacular. His sophmore season - 10ppg, 4.2rpg, 1.2apg, .51spg. Not bad, but by no means spectacular.
> 
> William Avery - I'm not even going to give his stats because he spent more time pulling splinters out of his rear than playing on the court. I don't even know where he's at now.
> 
> So you want to honestly say that Coach K was incorrect in telling these two players that they should stay in college? Again, you are incorrect by overstating what happened - "rudely blasted" is a bad attempt to make him sound like a ruthless dictator. And, by the way, he told them they would be better off spending some more time in college. He did NOT tell them to stay in college for 4 years.


TM while I respect your passion I most note that Maggette did the right thing he went 13th in the draft and is a quality player in the NBA. Coach K blasted all through the draft. A coach should never do that to one of his players in public on TNT in private that another issue. It's funny but Marvin William's stats were similiar and I never ever heard Coach Williams say that Marvin was making a mistake.


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## Osballa23 (Jul 20, 2005)

Ohio state next year and the year after Oden Mayon Walker.... The pg from odens team and david lighty


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## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

Matthew Maurer said:


> TM while I respect your passion I most note that Maggette did the right thing he went 13th in the draft and is a quality player in the NBA. Coach K blasted all through the draft. A coach should never do that to one of his players in public on TNT in private that another issue. It's funny but Marvin William's stats were similiar and I never ever heard Coach Williams say that Marvin was making a mistake.


maybe K saw he could have been better coming out had he stayed one more season. After all, he was only the 6th man on that runner-up team.


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

TM said:


> maybe K saw he could have been better coming out had he stayed one more season. After all, he was only the 6th man on that runner-up team.


Whether he was the 6th man the previous year is beside the point. The point is that K has consistently pressured his players to turn down spots in the lottery for the good of the program. You might not have heard about Dunleavey, but I remember it. I believe there are still issues between Dunleavey and the Duke program to this day. 

Would K have tried to push Marvin back to school this fall? He was a 6th man as well...


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## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

I don't believe it is beside the point. A guy who's the sixth man and plays 18mpg for a team already full of stars or a guy who starts on a team where he's the man - who do you think looks better?

But you say again, "Wait, what about Marvin Williams?"

You're going to compare Marvin Williams and Corey Maggette? I'm not talking about the Corey Maggette of today. I'm talking about the teenager who came out after his freshman season. IMO, those two aren't equal. Some more on Williams & Maggette...

Marvin Williams: No. 2 draft pick. 22.2mpg, 11.3ppg, 6.6rpg for the National Champs
Corey Maggette: No. 13, 17.7mpg, 10.6, 3.9rpg for not the National Champs



> he point is that K has consistently pressured his players to turn down spots in the lottery for the good of the program.


I don't agree. I've already given you examples that conflict with that idea. (see above)



> I believe there are still issues between Dunleavey and the Duke program to this day.


Like? Since his departure, he was invitied to play in and accepted the invitation to play in their only alumni game, he's come back at least twice for Coach K's fantasy camp (summer of '04 & '05), and he finished his degree. Must not be too much bad blood.

*Bottom Line*
The opinion of most non-Duke fans is that K is a rat therefore everything he does is done for what's best for Duke. Therefore, these people 1) - having not been in those meetings - listen/read what the Duke haters said happened in that meeting and deduce that he blasted the kids for leaving and 2) believe that the only reason he said those things was because he didn't want to lose them.

I, on the other hand, am a Duke fan, therefore everything I think K does is what's best for Duke & for the individual. I - having not been in those meetings - listen/read what Duke lovers say and think that he told the ones who he thought needed more time in college to grow that they needed to stay for at least another year becuase it would be best for them.

In both situations, we are attempting to judge his motives, what he's thinking. That's impossible. Do you know what I'm thinking right now? See my point?

So basically, this part of the argument is pointless.

It boiles down to how you view Coach K. Rat = liar because everything he says in his books go against what you're saying of his motives while talking to his players & everything he does is selfish to make himself and his program look good. Great Coach = he's trying to do what's best for the players *&* the program.


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

TM said:


> I don't believe it is beside the point. A guy who's the sixth man and plays 18mpg for a team already full of stars or a guy who starts on a team where he's the man - who do you think looks better?
> 
> But you say again, "Wait, what about Marvin Williams?"
> 
> ...


Personally, I don't those stats are that dissimilar. 5 mpg, and less than 1 ppg? The rpg differential comes because Maggette played away from the basket. 

The fact of the matter is that Maggette was a lottery pick, made the right decision to head pro, and K still put the full court press on him at the time. 



> I don't agree. I've already given you examples that conflict with that idea. (see above)


It's a matter of what you choose to remember. Coach K certainly wasn't as blatant about it with Deng as he was with Dunleavey, but he was still putting pressure on Luol to return...



> Like? Since his departure, he was invitied to play in and accepted the invitation to play in their only alumni game, he's come back at least twice for Coach K's fantasy camp (summer of '04 & '05), and he finished his degree. Must not be too much bad blood.


I'm not making this stuff up, TM. He absolutely pushed the Dunleavys to the max about getting Mike Jr to head back to school. If his Dad wasn't so well connected, he may very well have given up the #3 slot in the draft to go back to school, "for the good of the program". 



> *Bottom Line*
> The opinion of most non-Duke fans is that K is a rat therefore everything he does is done for what's best for Duke. Therefore, these people 1) - having not been in those meetings - listen/read what the Duke haters said happened in that meeting and deduce that he blasted the kids for leaving and 2) believe that the only reason he said those things was because he didn't want to lose them.
> 
> I, on the other hand, am a Duke fan, therefore everything I think K does is what's best for Duke & for the individual. I - having not been in those meetings - listen/read what Duke lovers say and think that he told the ones who he thought needed more time in college to grow that they needed to stay for at least another year becuase it would be best for them.
> ...


I just don't see it as that simple. Duke fans love K, and attempt to defend everything he does because somewhere along the line they've bought the party line that K is the "all-american coach", and somehow morally superior to everybody else. Duke haters, like myself, see some of the hypocrisy that K displays when he tries so desperately to come off as the good guy, despite being just as manipulative and shady as any other coach.


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## Matthew Maurer (Oct 17, 2002)

> I don't believe it is beside the point. A guy who's the sixth man and plays 18mpg for a team already full of stars or a guy who starts on a team where he's the man - who do you think looks better?
> 
> But you say again, "Wait, what about Marvin Williams?"
> 
> ...


Really? You don't see the comparison at all? How could you not Maggette played less minutes and like Watters said the rebounds are diffrent do to position. And yes I am talking about Maggete of yesterday from a financial and basketball standpoint Maggette made a great choice. If a kid can go in the lottery than the coach the program owe it to that kid to help him not hinder him. Coach K has constantly cause rifts in his relationships with his underclassmen pro's. No not Deng why would he afterall it was pretty common knowledge when K got Deng he was going to be a one and done. 



> Like? Since his departure, he was invitied to play in and accepted the invitation to play in their only alumni game, he's come back at least twice for Coach K's fantasy camp (summer of '04 & '05), and he finished his degree. Must not be too much bad blood.


Sure it's called kiss and make up why don't you ask William Avery or Corey Maggette? Avery as a matter of fact has indeed cut-off all ties to the school. Maggette in a recent interview basically stated that he wished he had gone to Illinois or UNC instead his words not mine... I'll see if I can dig up that interview for you. Even Brand hasn't been the I'm a Duke alumni lover in fact it is well documented that he disliked many of the fans.




> Bottom Line
> The opinion of most non-Duke fans is that K is a rat therefore everything he does is done for what's best for Duke. Therefore, these people 1) - having not been in those meetings - listen/read what the Duke haters said happened in that meeting and deduce that he blasted the kids for leaving and 2) believe that the only reason he said those things was because he didn't want to lose them.
> 
> I, on the other hand, am a Duke fan, therefore everything I think K does is what's best for Duke & for the individual. I - having not been in those meetings - listen/read what Duke lovers say and think that he told the ones who he thought needed more time in college to grow that they needed to stay for at least another year becuase it would be best for them.
> ...


Your kidding me right? Coach K is a self promoting selfish man who cares not about his players futures just his legacy. It's really amazing I onced respected K when he went after kids like Hurley, Brian Davis, Parks, Laettner, Brian and Grant Hill. He recruited players that academics fit the program and the university. Now it's not about that 10 years ago K would have never went after some of the kids that he has now. Reddick maybe but certaintly not Sheldon Williams, Maggette, Avery or Dockery to name a few. He has choosen to foresake his morals and the Universities image to win after you do that I have little respect for you. He's basically Jerry Tarkanian with less morals but a claener image. Difference is Tarkanian never tried to act as though he was runing a program at Princeton.


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## The Truth IV (Nov 3, 2005)

How about the Syracuse class with Carmelo Anthony + Gerry McNamara?

Both fit in perfectly with the other parts the Orange had in place (Hakim Warrick + a couple of serviceable big men + athletes) and won the national title.

Extra points to Boeheim for getting Anthony who could easily have gone to the NBA.

Winning is the bottom-line isn't it? What recruiting class has ever come in to a squad and led a team to a national title (without any dominant returning players?). The fab five came within one game of doing it.... but my guess is no one else has.


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## Nimreitz (May 13, 2003)

Matthew Maurer said:


> North Carolina will not have any Transfers because unlike Coach K who denies his players the chance to go pro early UNC understands that it's relationship with it's players are a two way street. If you can go in the top part of the first round go. Coach K would never do that. Last year was a prime example of this. Coach Williams never publicly frowned on any of his players going pro nor did he try to stop his players from going pro. While Coach K in a similiar situation rudley blasted Magette and Avery.


I don't agree at all. If North Carolina believed in what you say, Marvin Williams would have been starting (which would have been better for the team AND the player). Instead, as has been the tradition with all UNC people, freshmen don't play regardless of how good they are. It's not a two way street. Until you're an upperclassman, the UNC system would prefer if you just sat down, shut up, and backed up a lesser player.

That is, until they have a mass exodus from the team and the choice is have a terrible season or play freshmen. That would be this year and the Felton, McCants, May freshman season.

The Fab 5 without a doubt. They recruited 5 players who were immediate starters and went to the Final Four.


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## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

I must have missed the replies to this...



Jonathan Watters said:


> Coach K certainly wasn't as blatant about it with Deng as he was with Dunleavey, but he was still putting pressure on Luol to return...


So what I head - the instances of K stating that he understood Luol's family/financial situation and that he didn't have a problem with Deng leaving - were false?

Oh, and MM...



> Sure it's called kiss and make up why don't you ask William Avery or Corey Maggette? Avery as a matter of fact has indeed cut-off all ties to the school. Maggette in a recent interview basically stated that he wished he had gone to Illinois or UNC instead his words not mine... I'll see if I can dig up that interview for you. Even Brand hasn't been the I'm a Duke alumni lover in fact it is well documented that he disliked many of the fans.


We all say how well Avery did ignoring K's request and taking his great skills to the NBA  And yes, I would like to see that Maggette interview, plus I'd like to see the articles about Brand and his dislike for Duke, since it's all "well documented."


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