# Bruce Bowen favorite for DPOY?



## KokoTheMonkey (Aug 4, 2003)

> DEFENSIVE PLAYER: Nothing is official yet, but it appears San Antonio swingman Bruce Bowen is the front-runner for defensive player of the year over Ben Wallace. An announcement from the league is expected soon, but Wallace took the news in stride.
> 
> 
> "That's the way it goes if that's the case," said Wallace, who has won the award twice. "I'm not going to make a big deal of it. There are bigger things still to go after."



http://www.freep.com/sports/pistons/pnotes27e_20050427.htm 





> WALLACE [email protected]: Brown and Ben Wallace both were disappointed when told that media reports have Wallace missing out on the NBA's Defensive Player of the Year for a second straight season.
> 
> Wallace, who had 10 rebounds, seven blocks and four steals in Game 1, lost out to Ron Artest last season.
> 
> ...



http://www.mlive.com/sportsflash/ba...-12/111456053037130.xml&storylist=michigannba 







Wow, it looks like Bruce is the favorite for DPOY. Pretty surprising to me, not because Bruce doesn't deserve it or anything, but I'm surprised other people would actually give him enough votes.


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## Guth (Feb 23, 2005)

I am with you Koko, this is pretty suprising...I guess the national media realizes that what most people call "dirty" play can just be aggressive defense in all reality...plus, one of the biggest parts of being a great defensive player is to get in the heads of the opposing superstar, and Bruce certainly does that...so maybe he is a little "chippy", I love that in a player and I would much rather him be on my team than another...


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## KokoTheMonkey (Aug 4, 2003)

I mentioned this in the thread I made in the NBA forum, but if Bowen is ever going to win a Defensive Player of the Year Award, it's this season. Of course, Duncan missed time, and there was also Artest's suspension and Kirilenko's injuries that have helped Bruce's chances quite significantly. If Ben Wallace isn't going to win it either, it's got to be Bowen then.


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## FreeMason Jr. (Jul 12, 2004)

For a while I've noticed the front runners have been Bowen, Duncan, and Wallace; but Bowen is actually the favored? I always thought Wallace would have a slight edge. Either way, TheRoc5 and I aren't looking so crazy now are we?


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## TheRoc5 (Mar 1, 2005)

ezealen said:


> For a while I've noticed the front runners have been Bowen, Duncan, and Wallace; but Bowen is actually the favored? I always thought Wallace would have a slight edge. Either way, TheRoc5 and I aren't looking so crazy now are we?


nope we new it the whole time right lol i realy hope he does he deserves it, after all of those players calling him dirty and since he is the kobe stopper. i think the nets gm sold me


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## texan (Jul 10, 2003)

He deserves it, although I wouldn't argue if Wallace got it. If Camby had played a couple more games, I would think he would be a candidate, and TD is in the same situation. Good job on Bowen's part. He has been a top tier defensive player for a while now, and I'm glad he is getting some recognition.


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## TiMVP2 (Jun 19, 2003)

IF this happens the NBA board will go crazy.


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## KokoTheMonkey (Aug 4, 2003)

TiMVP2 said:


> IF this happens the NBA board will go crazy.





They will go crazy because they will still reject that the guy is a legitamately great defender. They just don't want to believe anything other than than he's a dirty SOB that injures people. Oh well. We shouldn't waste any brain space on people like that.


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## RoddneyThaRippa (Jun 28, 2003)

This award should go to Camby, hands down. San Antonio can live without Bowen in the lineup. The same can't be said for Denver when Camby is absent.

Not that Bowen isn't good but he doesn't have the same effect Camby does. 

Then again, Bowen hasn't missed a game for the Spurs in three years, so gauging the team's reaction with him out is pure speculation. Still, I find it hard to believe that Bowen does more for San Antonio on defense than Camby does for the Nuggets. At least Bowen has some helpers in Ginobilli and Duncan. Camby is pretty much the only show in Denver, except for the occassional defensive appearance from Kenyon, which really wasn't consistent this year.


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## KokoTheMonkey (Aug 4, 2003)

RoddneyThaRippa said:


> This award should go to Camby, hands down. San Antonio can live without Bowen in the lineup. The same can't be said for Denver when Camby is absent.
> 
> Not that Bowen isn't good but he doesn't have the same effect Camby does.
> 
> Then again, Bowen hasn't missed a game for the Spurs in three years, so gauging the team's reaction with him out is pure speculation. Still, I find it hard to believe that Bowen does more for San Antonio on defense than Camby does for the Nuggets. At least Bowen has some helpers in Ginobilli and Duncan. Camby is pretty much the only show in Denver, except for the occassional defensive appearance from Kenyon, which really wasn't consistent this year.






Camby doesn't deserve it over Duncan. The only case that is made against Duncan for DPOY is the time he has missed, but it so happens that Camby has played the same amount of games as Duncan. Duncan anchored the best defense in the league over the course of the whole season, giving up nearly 10 points less than what the Nuggets did. Camby has about a half-block advantage on Duncan and averaged a little more steals per game than Duncan.....that's it. That's the only advantage Camby has over Duncan. So, if you want to make the argument of Camby over Bowen, it's reasonable. But if Camby is a legit contender for this award, so is Duncan, and Duncan wins easily.


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## TheRoc5 (Mar 1, 2005)

when will this be decided


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## RoddneyThaRippa (Jun 28, 2003)

KokoTheMonkey said:


> Camby doesn't deserve it over Duncan. The only case that is made against Duncan for DPOY is the time he has missed, but it so happens that Camby has played the same amount of games as Duncan. Duncan anchored the best defense in the league over the course of the whole season, giving up nearly 10 points less than what the Nuggets did. Camby has about a half-block advantage on Duncan and averaged a little more steals per game than Duncan.....that's it. That's the only advantage Camby has over Duncan. So, if you want to make the argument of Camby over Bowen, it's reasonable. But if Camby is a legit contender for this award, so is Duncan, and Duncan wins easily.


Why does team defense have anything to do with individual defense? It shouldn't matter that the Spurs gave up ten points less than the Nuggets. They've got better defenders, especially on the perimeter. At least Duncan has some help (let alone a defensive player of the year candidate). When I say Camby does things by himself, I mean it. Kenyon is only a shade of what he use to be on defense and everyone else with the exception of Andre Miller is below average. Camby is honestly the only thing the Nuggets got on defense a lot of times. Duncan has other good defensive players, a team that actually stresses defense, and has been in the same system for years, in a more stable situation. Camby has gone through three coaches this season and has performed under all, despite the fact that the Nuggets really haven't played good defense all year long. 

The point is, Camby is playing defense by himself and Tim Duncan has help. Tim Duncan is a good individual defense player made great by those around him. Camby is great by himself. 

The one thing I will give Duncan is the rebounding. Duncan is a better rebounder. But other than that Camby is the better defensive player, given that he carries the defense on his back while Duncan has support around him. Not that Duncan doesn't anchor the defense, which he does, but he doesn't have to do as much as Camby is asked to do.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Bowen doesnt deserve it. Not to mention that yes, he is dirty.


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## texan (Jul 10, 2003)

RoddneyThaRippa said:


> Why does team defense have anything to do with individual defense? It shouldn't matter that the Spurs gave up ten points less than the Nuggets. They've got better defenders, especially on the perimeter. At least Duncan has some help (let alone a defensive player of the year candidate). When I say Camby does things by himself, I mean it. Kenyon is only a shade of what he use to be on defense and everyone else with the exception of Andre Miller is below average. Camby is honestly the only thing the Nuggets got on defense a lot of times. Duncan has other good defensive players, a team that actually stresses defense, and has been in the same system for years, in a more stable situation. Camby has gone through three coaches this season and has performed under all, despite the fact that the Nuggets really haven't played good defense all year long.
> 
> The point is, Camby is playing defense by himself and Tim Duncan has help. Tim Duncan is a good individual defense player made great by those around him. Camby is great by himself.
> 
> The one thing I will give Duncan is the rebounding. Duncan is a better rebounder. But other than that Camby is the better defensive player, given that he carries the defense on his back while Duncan has support around him. Not that Duncan doesn't anchor the defense, which he does, but he doesn't have to do as much as Camby is asked to do.


Camby is not the better defender. The only things he is better at is blocking(slightly) and help side defense. Duncan is a better on ball defender, better rebounder etc. Also check the numbers defensively for the Spurs w/o Duncan. Maybe its not them that make him a good defender, but he makes them bettter defenders b/c he is such a threat that no one wants to drive on the Spurs. Camby has no case against Duncan for DPOY.


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## FreeMason Jr. (Jul 12, 2004)

R-Star said:


> Bowen doesnt deserve it. Not to mention that yes, he is dirty.


Wow. Can't argue with those facts


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## TheRoc5 (Mar 1, 2005)

ezealen said:


> Wow. Can't argue with those facts


 :laugh:


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

ezealen said:


> Wow. Can't argue with those facts


Its all been said before, in plenty of threads. Not much point beating it into the ground again, we all know where we stand on it.


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## FreeMason Jr. (Jul 12, 2004)

R-Star said:


> Its all been said before, in plenty of threads. Not much point beating it into the ground again, we all know where we stand on it.


The thing is if he wins he obviously does deserve it, dirty or not.


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## TheRoc5 (Mar 1, 2005)

dirty=good d


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## KokoTheMonkey (Aug 4, 2003)

R-Star said:


> Its all been said before, in plenty of threads. Not much point beating it into the ground again, we all know where we stand on it.





Dirty or not, he's going to be a First Team All Defender and possible DPOY, so that really doesn't matter.


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## FreeMason Jr. (Jul 12, 2004)

TheRoc5 said:


> dirty=good d


No, that's not true at all.


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## TheRoc5 (Mar 1, 2005)

ezealen said:


> No, that's not true at all.


depends on you defintion of dirty


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## FreeMason Jr. (Jul 12, 2004)

TheRoc5 said:


> depends on you defintion of dirty


What? You can be dirty and not have good D, and you can have good D and not be dirty. They really aren't connected much at all.


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## KokoTheMonkey (Aug 4, 2003)

RoddneyThaRippa said:


> Why does team defense have anything to do with individual defense? It shouldn't matter that the Spurs gave up ten points less than the Nuggets. They've got better defenders, especially on the perimeter. At least Duncan has some help (let alone a defensive player of the year candidate). When I say Camby does things by himself, I mean it. Kenyon is only a shade of what he use to be on defense and everyone else with the exception of Andre Miller is below average. Camby is honestly the only thing the Nuggets got on defense a lot of times. Duncan has other good defensive players, a team that actually stresses defense, and has been in the same system for years, in a more stable situation. Camby has gone through three coaches this season and has performed under all, despite the fact that the Nuggets really haven't played good defense all year long.
> 
> The point is, Camby is playing defense by himself and Tim Duncan has help. Tim Duncan is a good individual defense player made great by those around him. Camby is great by himself.
> 
> The one thing I will give Duncan is the rebounding. Duncan is a better rebounder. But other than that Camby is the better defensive player, given that he carries the defense on his back while Duncan has support around him. Not that Duncan doesn't anchor the defense, which he does, but he doesn't have to do as much as Camby is asked to do.





Duncan is every bit as good a individual defender as Camby. The block and steal numbers on Camby just aren't good enough to convince me that Camby deserves it over Duncan. Is a .4 block and .3 steal difference so big that it makes Camby the better choice? Duncan does average one more rebound per game, but my main argument for Duncan is how good the overall team's defense faired as opposed to Denver's. Whether Camby has less help or not, you can't ignore that San Antonio has had the best defense in the league over the course of the entire season, with Duncan being a huge part of that. Also, when you think of how the MVP is selected every year being based heavily on team performance (Example, KG was the MVP last year, and not even a canidate this year despite having basically the same numbers), that favors Duncan. Hey, I'm not saying that Camby isn't a canidate, but I don't think he deserves it over Duncan for reasons already stated. Bowen getting it over Duncan, Camby, and Ben Wallace will be pretty weak, but I have the feeling voters look at Duncan's games played and cancel him out, and the same should apply to Camby. There's no other explanation as to why Bowen would get it over those two guys. Alright, last point, and I probably should have stated this earler, but since I was on Bowen it just popped in. Obviously block and steal numbers aren't going to be very significant to the voters if Bowen wins this thing, because he's under one block and steal a game. I don't see how block and steal numbers could be so insignificant in Bowen's case but would be the main reason why Camby wins the DPOY.


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## TheRoc5 (Mar 1, 2005)

a good defender touches the player, gets inside there head, pokes and tricks them some times touches there elbow when they shoot but knows there limit and can take a charge or flop, pinches there stomach to slow them down... alot of people call that dirty i think thats good d, that is what bowen does. to me dirty is hitting a player tripping the player stuff like that wich he does not do.


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## FreeMason Jr. (Jul 12, 2004)

TheRoc5 said:


> a good defender touches the player, gets inside there head, pokes and tricks them some times touches there elbow when they shoot but knows there limit and can take a charge or flop, pinches there stomach to slow them down... alot of people call that dirty i think thats good d, that is what bowen does. to me dirty is hitting a player tripping the player stuff like that wich he does not do.


You're contradicted yourself now.

Anyways, like I said before: you can dirty and not have good D, and you can have good D and not be dirty.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

dirty = "hard defense"

"hard defense" = good defense

Think about that one...


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## TheRoc5 (Mar 1, 2005)

ezealen said:


> You're contradicted yourself now.
> 
> Anyways, like I said before: you can dirty and not have good D, and you can have good D and not be dirty.


how did i conterdict my self


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## FreeMason Jr. (Jul 12, 2004)

Damian Necronamous said:


> dirty = "hard defense"
> 
> "hard defense" = good defense
> 
> Think about that one...


But you can do dirty things and not contribute to the defensive end at all....and what exactly is "hard defense"?


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## TheRoc5 (Mar 1, 2005)

ezealen said:


> You're contradicted yourself now.
> 
> Anyways, like I said before: you can dirty and not have good D, and you can have good D and not be dirty.


also what i ment was good=dirty and yes it does, dirty is good like i said just depends on you definition of dirty


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## FreeMason Jr. (Jul 12, 2004)

TheRoc5 said:


> also what i ment was good=dirty and yes it does, dirty is good like i said just depends on you definition of dirty


good and dirty are almost opposite of eachother. You can be dirty and not good, and you can be good and not dirty. Yes, you can be both, but they aren't always connected to eachother.


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## TheRoc5 (Mar 1, 2005)

ezealen said:


> good and dirty are almost opposite of eachother. You can be dirty and not good, and you can be good and not dirty. Yes, you can be both, but they aren't always connected to eachother.


tell me what does dirty mean to you


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## FreeMason Jr. (Jul 12, 2004)

TheRoc5 said:


> tell me what does dirty mean to you


I'm going to go with one of the definitions of it: violating accepted standards or rules; "a dirty fighter"; "used foul means to gain power"; "a nasty unsporting serve"; "fined for unsportsmanlike behavior". 

So if you go by an actual definition then if you're dirty you would be violating the rules to gain an advantage. Players like Bowen push the rules to thier limits to gain an advantage, which isn't dirty. That's good defense.


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## TheRoc5 (Mar 1, 2005)

ezealen said:


> I'm going to go with one of the definitions of it: violating accepted standards or rules; "a dirty fighter"; "used foul means to gain power"; "a nasty unsporting serve"; "fined for unsportsmanlike behavior".
> 
> So if you go by an actual definition then if you're dirty you would be violating the rules to gain an advantage. Players like Bowen push the rules to thier limits to gain an advantage, which isn't dirty. That's good defense.


the way the gm is playd today the refs let players touch other players and be rough with the offense player and bowen takes advantage of that, thats all. he goes past the rules but not by much. bowen is a great defender the best this yr and im not saying hes dirty just saying he does get a way with a little bit but most players do. bowen deserves this award. some people think hes dirty cause hes good and on a winning team, excuse


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## FreeMason Jr. (Jul 12, 2004)

TheRoc5 said:


> the way the gm is playd today the refs let players touch other players and be rough with the offense player and bowen takes advantage of that, thats all. he goes past the rules but not by much. bowen is a great defender the best this yr and im not saying hes dirty just saying he does get a way with a little bit but most players do. bowen deserves this award.* some people think hes dirty cause hes good and on a winning team, excuse*


I've never seen anyone say that, and I don't think anyone would be that dumb to.

As for Bowen, what does he get away with? I make sure to watch him closely when he plays and all I see is him tapping players and slightly bumping them. He makes sure to do enough to get into thier heads but not enough that it would really mess them up. What he's doing is pushing the rules, not breaking them.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

KokoTheMonkey said:


> Dirty or not, he's going to be a First Team All Defender and possible DPOY, so that really doesn't matter.


Because having guys continualy say hes trying to make them roll their ankles while comming down from a jump shot makes him a punk.

If being a dirty punk makes you DPOY, so be it, but never the less, I will still have no respect for him as a player or defender.


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## FreeMason Jr. (Jul 12, 2004)

R-Star said:


> Because having guys continualy say hes trying to make them roll their ankles while comming down from a jump shot makes him a punk.
> 
> If being a dirty punk makes you DPOY, so be it, but never the less, I will still have no respect for him as a player or defender.


But how many ankles has he actually rolled?

They can whine that he was trying to hurt them all they want, but if he does it so continualy you'd think he would have actually hurt more people than he actually has. Because other people whine about things that he hasn't even done just so they can have an excuse doesn't make him a punk. It makes him a great defender.


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## KokoTheMonkey (Aug 4, 2003)

R-Star said:


> Because having guys continualy say hes trying to make them roll their ankles while comming down from a jump shot makes him a punk.
> 
> If being a dirty punk makes you DPOY, so be it, but never the less, I will still have no respect for him as a player or defender.







Being a dirty punk worked for Artest, why not for Bowen?


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## RoddneyThaRippa (Jun 28, 2003)

KokoTheMonkey said:


> Duncan is every bit as good a individual defender as Camby. The block and steal numbers on Camby just aren't good enough to convince me that Camby deserves it over Duncan. Is a .4 block and .3 steal difference so big that it makes Camby the better choice? Duncan does average one more rebound per game, but my main argument for Duncan is how good the overall team's defense faired as opposed to Denver's. Whether Camby has less help or not, you can't ignore that San Antonio has had the best defense in the league over the course of the entire season, with Duncan being a huge part of that. Also, when you think of how the MVP is selected every year being based heavily on team performance (Example, KG was the MVP last year, and not even a canidate this year despite having basically the same numbers), that favors Duncan. Hey, I'm not saying that Camby isn't a canidate, but I don't think he deserves it over Duncan for reasons already stated. Bowen getting it over Duncan, Camby, and Ben Wallace will be pretty weak, but I have the feeling voters look at Duncan's games played and cancel him out, and the same should apply to Camby. There's no other explanation as to why Bowen would get it over those two guys. Alright, last point, and I probably should have stated this earler, but since I was on Bowen it just popped in. Obviously block and steal numbers aren't going to be very significant to the voters if Bowen wins this thing, because he's under one block and steal a game. I don't see how block and steal numbers could be so insignificant in Bowen's case but would be the main reason why Camby wins the DPOY.



I never cited Camby's stats as a reason he should win the award. I said that Camby is asked to do more on defense and delivers. It doesn't necessarily mean that Duncan couldn't do the same Camby does if he was on the Nuggets, but Duncan has more to work with in San Antonio. I guess my point is that Camby carries a bigger load on defense than Duncan does and delivers all the same. I don't think Duncan has really set himself apart from Camby on the defensive end. Duncan factors into the team defense but it's not all his consequence. Camby shouldn't be punished for playing on a team that doesn't play good defense, especially when he delivers at a high level all the same. 

I'm not a big numbers guy myself because they can be easily misinterpreted and/or manipulated. I just think Camby should get it because he makes more of a total impact on the defensive end for his team than any other player in the league, in my eyes.


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## KokoTheMonkey (Aug 4, 2003)

RoddneyThaRippa said:


> I never cited Camby's stats as a reason he should win the award. I said that Camby is asked to do more on defense and delivers. It doesn't necessarily mean that Duncan couldn't do the same Camby does if he was on the Nuggets, but Duncan has more to work with in San Antonio. I guess my point is that Camby carries a bigger load on defense than Duncan does and delivers all the same. I don't think Duncan has really set himself apart from Camby on the defensive end. Duncan factors into the team defense but it's not all his consequence. Camby shouldn't be punished for playing on a team that doesn't play good defense, especially when he delivers at a high level all the same.
> 
> I'm not a big numbers guy myself because they can be easily misinterpreted and/or manipulated. I just think Camby should get it because he makes more of a total impact on the defensive end for his team than any other player in the league, in my eyes.






Alright, good discussion. Since they announced the Most Improved Player award already, I guess DPOY won't be far behind. It's up in the air who's going to win it now, but at least we know it's going to be somebody from this playoff series.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

KokoTheMonkey said:


> Being a dirty punk worked for Artest, why not for Bowen?



Who complains about Artest being a dirty defender? Find me one link, I would like to see it. While your at it, find me one for Kirilenko too. Bowen isnt in their league when it comes to D, not even in their world.


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## TheRoc5 (Mar 1, 2005)

RoddneyThaRippa said:


> I never cited Camby's stats as a reason he should win the award. I said that Camby is asked to do more on defense and delivers. It doesn't necessarily mean that Duncan couldn't do the same Camby does if he was on the Nuggets, but Duncan has more to work with in San Antonio. I guess my point is that Camby carries a bigger load on defense than Duncan does and delivers all the same. I don't think Duncan has really set himself apart from Camby on the defensive end. Duncan factors into the team defense but it's not all his consequence. Camby shouldn't be punished for playing on a team that doesn't play good defense, especially when he delivers at a high level all the same.
> 
> I'm not a big numbers guy myself because they can be easily misinterpreted and/or manipulated. I just think Camby should get it because he makes more of a total impact on the defensive end for his team than any other player in the league, in my eyes.


i no were better in interior d but kmart camby and nene aint bad either so i dont thnk you can use that excuse


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## RoddneyThaRippa (Jun 28, 2003)

KokoTheMonkey said:


> Alright, good discussion. Since they announced the Most Improved Player award already, I guess DPOY won't be far behind. It's up in the air who's going to win it now, but at least we know it's going to be somebody from this playoff series.


Yeah, unless everyone cops out and gives it to Wallace. Hopefully, that won't happen.


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## KokoTheMonkey (Aug 4, 2003)

R-Star said:


> Who complains about Artest being a dirty defender? Find me one link, I would like to see it. While your at it, find me one for Kirilenko too. Bowen isnt in their league when it comes to D, not even in their world.






Artest has thrown enough elbows and picked up enough flagrants to be labeled as a dirty defender. He's got the suspensions, fines, and the numbers to back him as a dirty player. 



I hope Bowen wins this damn thing now, and I hope he shines it up real nice and puts it on the mantle for everyone to see.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

KokoTheMonkey said:


> Artest has thrown enough elbows and picked up enough flagrants to be labeled as a dirty defender. He's got the suspensions, fines, and the numbers to back him as a dirty player.
> 
> 
> 
> I hope Bowen wins this damn thing now, and I hope he shines it up real nice and puts it on the mantle for everyone to see.



Like I said, find me an article where a writer (a half *** credible one) or player calls Artest a dirty player. You wont find one. He has lost his cool from time to time, but throwing a camera doesnt make him a dirty player. Alot of his calls were from his rep for being a nut job, and even if you dont agree with that and want to say, "Your making excuses, how is what he does any different from Bowen?", then like I said, find me 1, just 1 article that says hes plays dirty cheap defence.

Bowen is a nobody in my books. I think he must have grown up with Jerry Sloan with the way he plays. I will laugh when he doesnt get the awards again, since Pops will whine and ***** saying he realy deserved it. Anyone outside of San An knows he shouldnt even be in contention for the award.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

Bowen shouldn't be in contention for the award, but Iverson and Hughes should? Right.  

Artest pulled a guys shorts down (Pierce) while he was cutting to get the ball, that's not dirty? It's funny how fans will call a player dirty, then when a player on their team does similiar type things, it will be justified as being "craft" or "smart defense" or something like that.


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## KokoTheMonkey (Aug 4, 2003)

R-Star said:


> Like I said, find me an article where a writer (a half *** credible one) or player calls Artest a dirty player. You wont find one. He has lost his cool from time to time, but throwing a camera doesnt make him a dirty player. Alot of his calls were from his rep for being a nut job, and even if you dont agree with that and want to say, "Your making excuses, how is what he does any different from Bowen?", then like I said, find me 1, just 1 article that says hes plays dirty cheap defence.
> 
> Bowen is a nobody in my books. I think he must have grown up with Jerry Sloan with the way he plays. I will laugh when he doesnt get the awards again, since Pops will whine and ***** saying he realy deserved it. Anyone outside of San An knows he shouldnt even be in contention for the award.







All of the voters must be from San Antonio then, because word is that Bowen is the favorite. You might think he's an overrated dirty bum, but if he's getting serious consideration for DPOY he deserves it. He's a great perimeter defender. As an overall player, Bowen is a bum. He can hardly dribble, he doesn't create offense for himself, he can't shoot free throws, and he can knock down set jumpers, but that's all offensive stuff. We're talking about Defense here R-Star, and basically all of Bowen's value lies in defense, which he is damn good at whether you acknowledge it or not. 



I wasn't trying to bait you into the "Artest is a dirty player" theme, but I thought you would understand how we feel about Bowen when Artest has the same "dirty" label around him, for the flagrant fouls, the elbows, the pulling down of shorts, etc.




If all you came in here to say is that you don't like Bowen because he's dirty and you think he doesn't deserve the DPOY award because of that, I should have made one post with this:"Get in back of line." If you hate Bowen and think he's dirty, I'll make note of it, but it's hard to differentiate between you and everyone else who hates his guts. And be forewarned, if Bowen does win the award I'll be showing that off every chance I get because I know how much people despise him, and seeing him be rewarded with such a honor will make the hate go even deeper.




Bottom line: I'm not going to persuade you that Bowen is a clean player and you're not going to persuade me that Bowen is a dirty player. I know I shouldn't have called out Artest just because you are a Pacers fan, but the main reason why I mentioned it is that whether you have heard it or not, Artest has been called a dirty player, and I thought you would somehow relate to how the Spurs fans feel about Bowen. Actually, you do relate. You reject the idea Artest is a dirty player, I reject the idea Bowen is a dirty player. Oh well, that's homerism for ya.


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## KokoTheMonkey (Aug 4, 2003)

Here you go R-Star: 



http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/story/61480p-57430c.html 





> "Almost every coach in this league would tell you that they probably hate playing against Ron Artest because they think he's a dirty player. But they would love to have him on (their) team."





Satisfied?


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## Guth (Feb 23, 2005)

I hate to put a damper on a thread like this, but I just read Buck Harvey's column from today's Express-News and, well, I'll just let you look for yourselves...


http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/...es/MYSA043005.1C.COL.BKNharvey.22854434c.html



> Bruce Bowen won't be the defensive player of the year, and there's reason to believe that he never will be.
> 
> If he couldn't win the award this season — with Ron Artest out and so many of Bowen's victims out of their minds — what's the chance he will after age 33?
> 
> Bowen will be disappointed when the award is announced next week and someone else wins. He's been listed as a favorite in some newspapers, and Bowen has said he thinks he deserves the trophy.



Now, I don't know if this is concrete proof that Bruce is not going to win it, because he never really says "NBA officials told me...". But Buck Harvey is a reputable writer and I would tend to think that he knows something that we don't, unfortunately.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

KokoTheMonkey said:


> Here you go R-Star:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Touche. While I have no clue who OHM YOUNGMISUK is, you found me an article like I had asked.


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## KokoTheMonkey (Aug 4, 2003)

R-Star said:


> Touche. While I have no clue who OHM YOUNGMISUK is, you found me an article like I had asked.





You haven't heard of Ohm? He's got a great reputation league wide.....just kidding. I didn't even notice that until you posted that, and I must admit that it sounds extremely made up. However, there is a link, plus it's a quote from Byron Scott, not anything the great OHM YOUNGMISUK said.


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## KokoTheMonkey (Aug 4, 2003)

Guth said:


> I hate to put a damper on a thread like this, but I just read Buck Harvey's column from today's Express-News and, well, I'll just let you look for yourselves...
> 
> 
> http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/...es/MYSA043005.1C.COL.BKNharvey.22854434c.html
> ...





We'll have to wait and see. Just because Buck Harvey is a San Antonio writer doesn't mean that I'm going to believe him over the previous report, which was from a Detroit paper anyway, so it's not like they would hype up Bowen for no reason.



I wonder when this is supposed to be announced? Honestly, I'll be happy for Bruce if he wins it, but it's not going to kill me if someone wins it. Check that, if Bowen doesn't win it, Duncan should win it.


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## TheRoc5 (Mar 1, 2005)

is it just me or are this yrs awards taking longer


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## Guth (Feb 23, 2005)

TheRoc5 said:


> is it just me or are this yrs awards taking longer



I think it is just you. I think they aren't usually announced until the second round, it just seems like we have already played a series and a half in this first round.


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## Guth (Feb 23, 2005)

Here it is sports fans...all of the speculation is over: Ben Wallace is DPOY


http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2051570


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## FreeMason Jr. (Jul 12, 2004)

Wow, that's bull


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## KokoTheMonkey (Aug 4, 2003)

Guth said:


> Here it is sports fans...all of the speculation is over: Ben Wallace is DPOY
> 
> 
> http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2051570






I wonder who told Ben Wallace and Larry Brown that he wasn't going to win it this year. That's where this thread came from, because it stated that Wallace as told he wasn't going to win it, and that Bowen was the favorite. 



Ben Wallace is a choice that I'm not going to cry about, but I wonder if Duncan's missed time caused him this thing. I'm more upset that Duncan didn't win it than I am with Bowen not winning it.


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## TheRoc5 (Mar 1, 2005)

thats dumb owell just for that i think bowen will have a great gm tonight


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## FreeMason Jr. (Jul 12, 2004)

TheRoc5 said:


> thats dumb owell just for that i think bowen will have a great gm tonight


I think Bowen has more important things on his mind than that award.


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## KokoTheMonkey (Aug 4, 2003)

Apparently Bowen, Camby, and Duncan followed Wallace in votes, in that order.



Camby over Duncan. Bowen over Camby. Bowen over Duncan.


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## TheRoc5 (Mar 1, 2005)

KokoTheMonkey said:


> Apparently Bowen, Camby, and Duncan followed Wallace in votes, in that order.
> 
> 
> 
> Camby over Duncan. Bowen over Camby. Bowen over Duncan.


shocking.. well we will probaly have two players on our team that are deffensive first team
o and just to clarify i dont care if we dont win any awards i just want to win the nba championship


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

TheRoc5 said:


> shocking.. well we will probaly have two players on our team that are deffensive first team
> o and just to clarify i dont care if we dont win any awards i just want to win the nba championship



I love how you say that now after you run your mouth about Bowen before he lost to Wallace.

Hillarious.


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## TheRoc5 (Mar 1, 2005)

R-Star said:


> I love how you say that now after you run your mouth about Bowen before he lost to Wallace.
> 
> Hillarious.


what are you talking about ???


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

TheRoc5 said:


> what are you talking about ???



My mistake. I thought I remembered you in this thread going on and on about how great of a defender Bowen was and how he should win it. You did support Bowen but never realy went overboard on the matter.

Bad memory on my part, sorry for the post above.


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## texan (Jul 10, 2003)

I thought Bowen deserved the award, and thought he had a good chance at winning it, but I'm definitley not disappointed that he lost. Ben Wallace deserved it as well to and we don't need any individual awards to satisfy our players. All we need is the championship trophy, and that is what is so great about our team.

BTW I know if Pop says anything about Bowen deserving the award, their will be major hate on the Spurs and how they "whine" so much, but our players do get less recognition than other players, and I will be ready to defend Pop when or if this happens.


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## TheRoc5 (Mar 1, 2005)

ditto im ready for battle lol


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