# 7 members on here?



## HispanicCausinPanic

Where is everybody at? I don't think I've ever seen this few people on here!


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## Hector

I'm too busy admiring your latest picture. You photograph so well, and your hair is just darling.


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## furball

I think most of them have been banned.


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## BenDavis503

Football man


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## Hector

This is a beautiful board. I like how the thread list updates automatically. On the ESPN board, it stays the same until you refresh the screen. Also, when you post there to a multi-page thread, right after your post it takes you to page 1 of the thread. Here, it takes you to the last page of the thread, so you can inspect the post you just wrote. Also, moderators actually talk to you here, while there they won't. That can be a plus or a minus, depending on how authoritarian they come off. If handled right, it makes the place very user-friendly.


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## HispanicCausinPanic

BenDavis503 said:


> Football man


I don't think it's football brother. It's been slow like the last 5 days!


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## DaRizzle

9 people looking at a thread that claims there are 7 people....liar!!!!


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## BlueBaron

*50 (21 members & 29 guests)*

Those look like good numbers to me.


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## dpc

I'm on a lot I just don't always sign in.


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## ebott

It's also a little rough all over the place. There's nothing going on in the basketball world. The most exciting thing we've got going is whether or not we'll sign Shaun Livingston to be our 15th man. Seriously, outside of that there's nothing worth talking about.

I go to a bunch of different boards and the same general phenomenon of people popping in to see if there's anything new and then popping out cause there isn't much new substance to talk about. Even the juggernaut that is o-live is relatively dead.

And furball isn't completely off base with the banning statement. I'm seeing a lot of the previously active people on this board on other boards. But it's a bunch of "I'm new to the board" type of stuff. There's still nothing interesting to talk about.


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## BlayZa

im elsewhere mostly and here occasionally.


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## HispanicCausinPanic

BlueBaron said:


> *50 (21 members & 29 guests)*
> 
> Those look like good numbers to me.


Where were you at 10:56AM?


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## Hector

I was signed on, got into Yega's thread with the wrong link to PrisonPlanet, spent an hour searching PrisonPlanet for his article and reading other articles, then returned to post, and I had been automatically signed off.

So a lot of people get booted off automatically who want to be logged in. That lowers the numbers.


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## ebott

Every Blazer fans dream: To be balls deep in Anne Schotz.


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## HispanicCausinPanic

EASY! That's my girl.


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## hoojacks

*********.com


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## DaRizzle

Is that 9 or 10 asterisks?


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## Tha Freak

haha everyone left

you know where to


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## BlayZa

yes, it seems the herd has definitely moved onto other pastures. 

not saying it wont still check out what's being discussed here but its not what it used to be that's for real.


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## Hector

I haven't looked at the other board since I got the PM. For those who didn't get it, it simply advertised the other board, like in one sentence. I don't intend to register there. I forgot who sent the PM--ABM? His post count here is a thousand. Wouldn't have expected it from him. If the PM sender has a financial interest in the other board, he infiltrated his competitor and stole their business, to his own financial profit.


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## PapaG

The funny thing is that mods were added because of the "heavy traffic" that the board was receiving, or at least that is how I remember the post that introduced the new mod a while back.

Oh well...


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## mediocre man

Hector said:


> I haven't looked at the other board since I got the PM. For those who didn't get it, it simply advertised the other board, like in one sentence. I don't intend to register there. I forgot who sent the PM--ABM? His post count here is a thousand. Wouldn't have expected it from him. If the PM sender has a financial interest in the other board, he infiltrated his competitor and stole their business, to his own financial profit.




People left this site because of the mods and admins. 

As for ABM, BECAUSE his post count is around 1000 should tell you a lot about him leaving. I don't believe he has any $ interest in the other board. He is just trying to be nice and invite people to a place where maybe they can talk a little more freely. This place used to be THE best place for Blazer talk and info. Now it's totally different. I consider myself a very active member of this site, but I can absolutely understand why people would want to leave for someplace else.


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## DonCorleone

Football season is definitely the reason I have been visiting this board less frequently lately.


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## STOMP

mediocre man said:


> People left this site because of the mods and admins.
> 
> As for ABM, BECAUSE his post count is around 1000 should tell you a lot about him leaving. I don't believe he has any $ interest in the other board. He is just trying to be nice and invite people to a place where maybe they can talk a little more freely. This place used to be THE best place for Blazer talk and info. Now it's totally different. I consider myself a very active member of this site, but I can absolutely understand why people would want to leave for someplace else.


I'll probably be checking out both as the season starts, but I don't like that a few posters needless melodrama has to rule the day with the location of our whole groups discussions. It seems that many of the those posters were the same bright bulbs that wouldn't abide by the super tricky two forum system we have here and/or couldn't resist the allure of personal attacks... and now I'm supposed to follow them? 

The mods could have handled things better no doubt, but those guys do a thankless job for free... 

STOMP


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## GNG

mediocre man said:


> People left this site because of the mods and admins.
> 
> As for ABM, BECAUSE his post count is around 1000 should tell you a lot about him leaving. I don't believe he has any $ interest in the other board. He is just trying to be nice and invite people to a place where maybe they can talk a little more freely. This place used to be THE best place for Blazer talk and info. Now it's totally different. I consider myself a very active member of this site, but I can absolutely understand why people would want to leave for someplace else.


This isn't going to lead to another long thread about shoulda-coulda-woulda. That group is going to revise its history however it wants, but these are the facts:

We had been getting a lot of complaints about specific posters on the Blazers OT board. Those complaints and those posters' obvious trolling were wearing moderators thin.

Moderators decided to do something about the situation.

Instead of getting upset with the trolls, the Blazers board goes nuclear. Guys like Maxiepad act like four-year-olds and act insubordinate enough to get themselves suspended and then banned.

Misinformation runs rampant, and somehow everyone decides that moderators are reading and editing private messages. Which moderators can't do.

Moderators get tired of all the "OMFG FACISM (sic)" posts and don't take any crap.

Everyone leaves and goes to Sports2 to post with all the trolls they were complaining about in the first place.


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## ATLien

^ is The Man.


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## dreamcloud

I'm not even sure what happened, though I did get the PM. So does this all have to do with something about the Off-topic forum? If so, why are people leaving the Blazer board? What does an OT forum have to do with blazer talk? It's better to keep everyone in one spot, I haven't personally seen anything wrong on this main board.. Plus I like the history this forum has..


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## Draco

Goodbye BBF I'll always remember ya fondly you were much better than the old FanHome place you replaced, although that was back when you were BBB.


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## R-Star

What a terrible loss. A bunch of cry babies left. Damn shame. The only people who lost out here are the old school Blazers fans who didnt want to move. I feel bad for them since they lost a lot of their core group, but for the guys who complained, and complained to no end, and "left" (even though they still come back daily to cry about how they were wronged), to them, I dont feel even the slightest pity. Cinco De Rawso explained it very well, so I dont feel the need to rehash.

Im pretty much of the dont let the door hit you in the *** mindset.


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## R-Star

Draco said:


> Goodbye BBF I'll always remember ya fondly you were much better than the old FanHome place you replaced, although that was back when you were BBB.


Hasnt been BBB for a long time though. We've all had to deal with changes since then. The board is obviously going to go through drastic changes as it grows over the years.


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## jwhoops11

Cinco de Mayo said:


> Instead of getting upset with the trolls, the Blazers board goes nuclear. Guys like Maxiepad act like four-year-olds and act insubordinate enough to get themselves suspended and then banned.


I'd be willing to argue that most people have left becuase of this reason more than anything else. As a moderator it seems pretty hollow when you talk about not personally attacking other posters, and then personally attack another poster. 

Only my opinion here, but regardless of how upset you get as a moderator it's your job to be above the people you're moderating. As thankless as that may be, it's what you signed up for. Most people don't appreciate the double standards, and that from everything I gathered by reading these threads is the true problem.

....And obviously things aren't changing.


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## R-Star

Still find it funny that people just dont get it. The guy broke the rules. Myself and Talkhard have been suspended for less. Its not confusing. Its pretty straight forward as to why the guy was punted.


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## It's_GO_Time

Since I was one of the vocal ones at the OT forum, I feel I should say something about this.

I want to start with the idea that I really don't know what board will get the most Blazer traffic when the season starts . . . and I think it will be the traffic that will dictate where most posters congregate. This board has name recognition and more viewers, the "other" board is faster and management is friendlier. There is a thread over there about AMD v. intel and in the real world intel wins (this board is intel).

But this idea of being cry babies and don't let the door hit you on the way out is exactly why so many left (I like R-Star and he wasn't the one who drove off posters but it was that attitude). 

And you posters have been reading the posters who left for years now, so you can decide. My argument to management has been that these Blazer posters who are "cry babies" are actually good people. They come from all walks of life, range in age and profession . . . they are reasonable knowledgable people. When they have a grip, maybe you should listen. But literally the attitude for days (besides deleteing threads and thoughts about all this) was here are the rules if you don't like it I don't care, you are free to leave (literally).

One thing we all have in common is we are sports fans. How does someone with a competitive spirt take that. On top of that we go to a new board where the attitude is glad you're here. You want OT forum, you got it. You want rep points, done. (Maxiep puts his email on a post. Mods delete it. maxiep says why, they say to ensure his privacy, he says I can take care of myself and they put it back up . . . all within hours.) And my favorite part, no ads.

So it has been suggested that vocal posters weren't acting their age. Again, you know the posters who left (Ed, mook, ABM, e-blazer to mention a few) do you think they might have had a legit grip or were the posters so wacko they went off the deep end and acted like 4 year olds.

Ironically I have my own theory and that goes to the age of some of the mods. Granted they walked into a snake pit (basel got the worst of it in my opinion) but it's funny that mods would say the psoters acted immaturely and I see it the other way around. They made it very clear who was in charge.

But I'm not here to change anyones's mind. I will say the other board talks about wishing Blazer fans would go over there, meaning I think we all want to be in one place. Some very good posters stayed here and the numbers support this site, so if you migration back, just get busy posting (great now I'm in trouble with both sites)

But in the end, I'm sorry, I don't care which board we all post in, I just want as many Blazer fans together in one board talking Blazers. If it is this board, I would love to preach to the other board that the mods finally get it, forgive them it won't happen again,they will at least listen to what we have to say. But reading this thread, what do you think?


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## mediocre man

> Instead of getting upset with the trolls, the Blazers board goes nuclear. Guys like Maxiepad act like four-year-olds and act insubordinate enough to get themselves suspended and then banned.



I'm not sure which is better. You calling him a 4 year old, or acting like one yourself by calling him Maxiepad.

I think this says it all. Most of us would be banned or at minimum warned for attacking a poster, but you as a mod go ahead and do it at will. I enjoy this site, but it truly is getting harder and harder to come here and post because of people like you. 

I respect the fact that all of the mods put up with crap for free, but no one is forcing you to be a mod. If you decide to do it then don't abuse your power. 

As for some of you new people, you should be a lot more upset that some of these "cry babies" aren't around any longer. Most of them had a lot of basketball knowledge that made the BBF Blazer forum one of if not the best. It's sorta like when you really hate a guy because he is so popular and get's all the girls at parties. You treat him like crap and he stops coming, but then you realize the girls stop coming as well. Then you sit around in a circle with your cocks in your hand remembering how fun it used to be when there were more people at the parties.


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## mynetsforlife

Cinco de Mayo said:


> This isn't going to lead to another long thread about shoulda-coulda-woulda. That group is going to revise its history however it wants, but these are the facts:
> 
> We had been getting a lot of complaints about specific posters on the Blazers OT board. Those complaints and those posters' obvious trolling were wearing moderators thin.
> 
> Moderators decided to do something about the situation.
> 
> Instead of getting upset with the trolls, the Blazers board goes nuclear. Guys like Maxiepad act like four-year-olds and act insubordinate enough to get themselves suspended and then banned.
> 
> Misinformation runs rampant, and somehow everyone decides that moderators are reading and editing private messages. Which moderators can't do.
> 
> Moderators get tired of all the "OMFG FACISM (sic)" posts and don't take any crap.
> 
> Everyone leaves and goes to Sports2 to post with all the trolls they were complaining about in the first place.


Maxiepad?

Irony. I sense some.

Dammit, I need to read the end of threads.


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## Stepping Razor

It's_GO_Time said:


> Since I was one of the vocal ones at the OT forum, I feel I should say something about this.
> 
> I want to start with the idea that I really don't know what board will get the most Blazer traffic when the season starts . . . and I think it will be the traffic that will dictate where most posters congregate. This board has name recognition and more viewers, the "other" board is faster and management is friendlier. There is a thread over there about AMD v. intel and in the real world intel wins (this board is intel).
> 
> But this idea of being cry babies and don't let the door hit you on the way out is exactly why so many left (I like R-Star and he wasn't the one who drove off posters but it was that attitude).
> 
> And you posters have been reading the posters who left for years now, so you can decide. My argument to management has been that these Blazer posters who are "cry babies" are actually good people. They come from all walks of life, range in age and profession . . . they are reasonable knowledgable people. When they have a grip, maybe you should listen. But literally the attitude for days (besides deleteing threads and thoughts about all this) was here are the rules if you don't like it I don't care, you are free to leave (literally).
> 
> One thing we all have in common is we are sports fans. How does someone with a competitive spirt take that. On top of that we go to a new board where the attitude is glad you're here. You want OT forum, you got it. You want rep points, done. (Maxiep puts his email on a post. Mods delete it. maxiep says why, they say to ensure his privacy, he says I can take care of myself and they put it back up . . . all within hours.) And my favorite part, no ads.
> 
> So it has been suggested that vocal posters weren't acting their age. Again, you know the posters who left (Ed, mook, ABM, e-blazer to mention a few) do you think they might have had a legit grip or were the posters so wacko they went off the deep end and acted like 4 year olds.
> 
> Ironically I have my own theory and that goes to the age of some of the mods. Granted they walked into a snake pit (basel got the worst of it in my opinion) but it's funny that mods would say the psoters acted immaturely and I see it the other way around. They made it very clear who was in charge.
> 
> But I'm not here to change anyones's mind. I will say the other board talks about wishing Blazer fans would go over there, meaning I think we all want to be in one place. Some very good posters stayed here and the numbers support this site, so if you migration back, just get busy posting (great now I'm in trouble with both sites)
> 
> But in the end, I'm sorry, I don't care which board we all post in, I just want as many Blazer fans together in one board talking Blazers. If it is this board, I would love to preach to the other board that the mods finally get it, forgive them it won't happen again,they will at least listen to what we have to say. But reading this thread, what do you think?


+1


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## MARIS61

jwhoops11 said:


> I'd be willing to argue that most people have left becuase of this reason more than anything else. As a moderator it seems pretty hollow when you talk about not personally attacking other posters, and then personally attack another poster.
> 
> Only my opinion here, but regardless of how upset you get as a moderator it's your job to be above the people you're moderating. As thankless as that may be, it's what you signed up for. Most people don't appreciate the double standards, and that from everything I gathered by reading these threads is the true problem.
> 
> ....And obviously things aren't changing.


Good accurate read of the problem, JW. It was, IMO, a problem started by a Mod, and then it snowballed when he brought in mods who were unfamiliar with the posters so they took his word there was a problem and refused to listen to most of the posters who were trying to clue them in on the real problem.

It was, in the end, rude and insulting attacks from mods and admins that made posters realize this board ain't what it used to be.

Maybe we can find an online "Mod Charm School" for their training. :biggrin:

How ya doin', BTW?


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## NateBishop3

I joined this site in 2003 to post my articles about the Blazers, give some inside info, and hopefully get some good feedback on my writing. I got all of that at BBB.net and I made some good friends along the way. This site has been on a downward spiral ever since the shift to BBF. Sad to say. Most, if not all, of the people that I enjoy reading and debating have moved on to another site. I have followed them. 

I gave this site a lot of free publicity when I broke the story here about Greg Oden playing in a pickup basketball game. I'm going to focus on sports2 and I'm going to see if I can help them out. Good luck guys, but I won't be posting here anymore. 

Go Blazers though!


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## Basel

For what it's worth, if you're talking about me, I never brought in any mods. They just saw what was going on and formed their opinions based on what they saw. 

And I know everyone is still mad at what I did with the closing and deleting of threads, but I still stand by it. It's unfortunate, though, because it never should've gotten to that point.

Edit: And to those who have a problem with what I did just because I'm a Lakers fan, that's sad. Me being a fan of the Lakers had nothing to do with what was going on. It wouldn't have mattered which board this happened in, I would've done the same thing.


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## HispanicCausinPanic

I have been over at the new site for the past week now. I like it. I also like this one still. We all need to make up our mind and choose one or the other. Let me know which one!


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## GNG

jwhoops11 said:


> I'd be willing to argue that most people have left becuase of this reason more than anything else. As a moderator it seems pretty hollow when you talk about not personally attacking other posters, and then personally attack another poster.
> 
> Only my opinion here, but regardless of how upset you get as a moderator it's your job to be above the people you're moderating. As thankless as that may be, it's what you signed up for. Most people don't appreciate the double standards, and that from everything I gathered by reading these threads is the true problem.
> 
> ....And obviously things aren't changing.


Well, first, Maxiepad isn't a poster here anymore -- he saw to that himself -- so I'm free to give him a pet name. 

People who act like petulant brats are going to be treated and moderated like petulant brats. It's the same on da Internetz as it is in real life. The mods that actually came in to help got sandblasted immediately. I'm not saying that any moderators SHOULD have started dishing it back, but the mods weren't saying anything close to what they were having to deal with. I'm just being honest here, after 50 posts of "OMG FACISM (sic) WHERE'S MAH FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS?!?1" I'd rather be snarky than try to reason with those kinds of people. And if Blazers fans hate snarky, smug moderators, wait until they get a load of one of their new board's admins.

Bottom line is that this board lost a lot of good posters and even more immature posters. No one's upset about anything. Rest assured, this site's going to be fine one way or another.


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## NateBishop3

Cinco de Mayo said:


> Well, first, Maxiepad isn't a poster here anymore -- he saw to that himself -- so I'm free to give him a pet name.
> 
> People who act like petulant brats are going to be treated and moderated like petulant brats. It's the same on da Internetz as it is in real life. The mods that actually came in to help got sandblasted immediately. I'm not saying that any moderators SHOULD have started dishing it back, but the mods weren't saying anything close to what they were having to deal with. I'm just being honest here, after 50 posts of "OMG FACISM (sic) WHERE'S MAH FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS?!?1" I'd rather be snarky than try to reason with those kinds of people. And if Blazers fans hate snarky, smug moderators, wait until they get a load of one of their new board's admins.
> 
> Bottom line is that this board lost a lot of good posters and even more immature posters. No one's upset about anything. Rest assured, this site's going to be fine one way or another.


Actually, in real life, the customer is always right. If you own a small store, and you banned every rude or disrespectful customer, pretty soon you'd have rep for treating your customers like trash and you wouldn't have much business. Word spreads. You catch more fly's with honey.


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## MARIS61

Basel57 said:


> For what it's worth, if you're talking about me, I never brought in any mods.


I wasn't.

I was referring to the mod who was calling those posters names and acting childish in the thread where it started.

He has been conspicuous in his posting absence here since then, although he's been logged on.

I will post where the topics are being actively debated, whether here or there, but it appears this site has all but died as a place for serious discourse.


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## HispanicCausinPanic

Cinco de Mayo said:


> Well, first, Maxiepad isn't a poster here anymore -- he saw to that himself -- so I'm free to give him a pet name.
> 
> People who act like petulant brats are going to be treated and moderated like petulant brats. It's the same on da Internetz as it is in real life. The mods that actually came in to help got sandblasted immediately. I'm not saying that any moderators SHOULD have started dishing it back, but the mods weren't saying anything close to what they were having to deal with. I'm just being honest here, after 50 posts of "OMG FACISM (sic) WHERE'S MAH FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS?!?1" I'd rather be snarky than try to reason with those kinds of people. And if Blazers fans hate snarky, smug moderators, wait until they get a load of one of their new board's admins.
> 
> Bottom line is that this board lost a lot of good posters and even more immature posters. No one's upset about anything. Rest assured, this site's going to be fine one way or another.


Speak for yourself brother, some of the guys who left WILL be missed!


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## Basel

MARIS61 said:


> I wasn't.
> 
> I was referring to the mod who was calling those posters names and acting childish in the thread where it started.
> 
> He has been conspicuous in his posting absence here since then, although he's been logged on.
> 
> I will post where the topics are being actively debated, whether here or there, *but it appears this site has all but died* as a place for serious discourse.


While the Blazers forum has definitely been lacking in activity compared to what it was a few weeks ago, doesn't mean the entire site has "all but died." BBF is doing just fine. If the posters want to come back here, they're more than welcome to. But if they don't, BBF is going to move on and make the best of the hand its been dealt.


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## Stepping Razor

Cinco de Mayo said:


> Well, first, Maxiepad isn't a poster here anymore -- he saw to that himself -- so I'm free to give him a pet name.
> 
> People who act like petulant brats are going to be treated and moderated like petulant brats. It's the same on da Internetz as it is in real life. The mods that actually came in to help got sandblasted immediately. I'm not saying that any moderators SHOULD have started dishing it back, but the mods weren't saying anything close to what they were having to deal with. I'm just being honest here, after 50 posts of "OMG FACISM (sic) WHERE'S MAH FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS?!?1" I'd rather be snarky than try to reason with those kinds of people. And if Blazers fans hate snarky, smug moderators, wait until they get a load of one of their new board's admins.
> 
> Bottom line is that this board lost a lot of good posters and even more immature posters. No one's upset about anything. Rest assured, this site's going to be fine one way or another.


I have to say, I think this is an incredibly misguided attitude. It's clearly not true that "no one's upset about anything." Clearly many/most members of what was, until very recently, the best Blazers community on the internet are quite upset by what's happened. I personally will definitely miss all the posters, who used to be anchors of this community, but have now moved on to apparently greener pastures. Just look at the threads and activity over the past week. This place is moribund. If all the users leave, what will be left? And why? 

I was too busy with work to pay close attention when all the **** went down last week, so I don't know who was wrong and who was right. But it seems to me that if we want to keep this board alive, we should be concerned less with proving who was right or wrong and more with rebuilding the community that is on the verge of being lost, if it hasn't already.

With respect,
Stepping Razor


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## GNG

NateBishop3 said:


> Actually, in real life, the customer is always right. If you own a small store, and you banned every rude or disrespectful customer, pretty soon you'd have rep for treating your customers like trash and you wouldn't have much business. Word spreads. You catch more fly's with honey.


Does every restaurant-goer who complains about his steak automatically get a refund? Of course not.

Businesses make plenty of concessions, but in the end, the business doesn't compromise itself to make everyone happy. In this case, we had a select few customers acting like big enough fools to the point where other customers asked management to step in. Management stepped in, the fool customers and some of their friends started trashing the store, and so they were told not to come back. Some other customers chimed in with their opinion, and management said, "That's great, but our decision stands."

If those customers want to go to the restaurant across the street with the fools that got kicked out of this one, so be it. I'm sure the other restaurant will appreciate the newfound business for the time being. But despite what they say, they have standards there too, and even if it takes five years like it did here, they have their limits, and they spell it out pretty clearly in their guidelines.

Nightclubs have bouncers for a reason.


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## MARIS61

Cinco de Mayo said:


> Well, first, Maxiepad isn't a poster here anymore -- he saw to that himself -- so I'm free to give him a pet name.
> 
> People who act like petulant brats are going to be treated and moderated like petulant brats. It's the same on da Internetz as it is in real life. The mods that actually came in to help got sandblasted immediately. I'm not saying that any moderators SHOULD have started dishing it back, but the mods weren't saying anything close to what they were having to deal with. I'm just being honest here, after 50 posts of "OMG FACISM (sic) WHERE'S MAH FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS?!?1" I'd rather be snarky than try to reason with those kinds of people. And if Blazers fans hate snarky, smug moderators, wait until they get a load of one of their new board's admins.
> 
> Bottom line is that this board lost a lot of good posters and even more immature posters. No one's upset about anything. Rest assured, this site's going to be fine one way or another.


You're 25 years old?

Amazing.


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## GNG

MARIS61 said:


> You're 25 years old?
> 
> Amazing.


Not really. Lots of people live to be 25.


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## MARIS61

Basel57 said:


> If the posters want to come back here, they're more than welcome to.


Good to hear.

I'll let Maxiep and ABM know immediately. Does they need new screen names?


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## Stepping Razor

Cinco de Mayo said:


> Does every restaurant-goer who complains about his steak automatically get a refund? Of course not.
> 
> Businesses make plenty of concessions, but in the end, the business doesn't compromise itself to make everyone happy. In this case, we had a select few customers acting like big enough fools to the point where other customers asked management to step in. Management stepped in, the fool customers and some of their friends started trashing the store, and so they were told not to come back. Some other customers chimed in with their opinion, and management said, "That's great, but our decision stands."
> 
> If those customers want to go to the restaurant across the street with the fools that got kicked out of this one, so be it. I'm sure the other restaurant will appreciate the newfound business for the time being. But despite what they say, they have standards there too, and even if it takes five years like it did here, they have their limits, and they spell it out pretty clearly in their guidelines.
> 
> Nightclubs have bouncers for a reason.


I don't think this is a good metaphor.

Nightclubs who have their bouncers beat up all their customers don't stay open as nightclubs for very long.

SR


----------



## Basel

MARIS61 said:


> Good to hear.
> 
> I'll let Maxiep and ABM know immediately. Does they need new screen names?


The ones that were banned permanently will stay banned.


----------



## MARIS61

Cinco de Mayo said:


> Not really. Lots of people live to be 25.


But usually they learn things along the way.


----------



## NateBishop3

Cinco de Mayo said:


> Does every restaurant-goer who complains about his steak automatically get a refund? Of course not.
> 
> Businesses make plenty of concessions, but in the end, the business doesn't compromise itself to make everyone happy. In this case, we had a select few customers acting like big enough fools to the point where other customers asked management to step in. Management stepped in, the fool customers and some of their friends started trashing the store, and so they were told not to come back. Some other customers chimed in with their opinion, and management said, "That's great, but our decision stands."
> 
> If those customers want to go to the restaurant across the street with the fools that got kicked out of this one, so be it. I'm sure the other restaurant will appreciate the newfound business for the time being. But despite what they say, they have standards there too, and even if it takes five years like it did here, they have their limits, and they spell it out pretty clearly in their guidelines.
> 
> Nightclubs have bouncers for a reason.


You may be right, but your restaurant-goers were people who had been going to your restaurant for years. They patroned your place of business daily. They spent money to help keep your business going. These weren't people that had just walked in off the street. They were valued customers who should have been respected and listened to. 

All of these infractions were in a portion of the site that most of the other posters are, in a manner of speaking, oblivious about. I've been going here for five years, I hardly ever frequent the OT forum. You banned people for posting inflamatory posts in a area that would draw exactly those kinds of subjects. You guys came in, you got into it with the patrons and then you wonder why people are turned off by the mods on this site? 

I'll give you an example, a few years back I was with a large group at a hotel bar in a Sheraton. One of the people in my group was drunk, and had made a snyde remark to the waitress. She went off on him. She made a scene. While he was obviously wrong, she should have let it go. She should have been more professional. I heard she was fired shortly thereafter. It isn't the actions that you do, but the manner in which you do them.


----------



## Basel

We didn't ban people for their posts (except for Xericx, which was a 5-day ban, and done outside of the Portland forum). maxiep and ABM were banned for breaking the rules that are in the board's guidelines, plain and simple.


----------



## MARIS61

Basel57 said:


> The ones that were banned permanently will stay banned.


Well, there you go then.


----------



## NateBishop3

Basel57 said:


> We didn't ban people for their posts (except for Xericx, which was a 5-day ban, and done outside of the Portland forum). maxiep and ABM were banned for breaking the rules that are in the board's guidelines, plain and simple.


ABM was banned for sending PM's to people he knew on this board, correct?

What constitutes spam? I'm curious. If one of my friends CC's me on an email that he sends to all of his friends, is that spam? He knows me. I know him. 

You guys have fed that website into a censor, that was done intentionally. You may not have gone into PM's, but you still edited them through censorship. You banned ABM for PMing people he knew from the board with a link to a different forum. It's not like he was PMing people on other boards with that link.



> Another alternative, perhaps?
> 
> I'm inviting you because I've enjoyed your posts and consider you a Blazer "friend".
> 
> http://www.*********.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=123
> 
> Hope to see you soon!
> 
> ABM


Does that look like spam?


----------



## GNG

Stepping Razor said:


> I don't think this is a good metaphor.
> 
> Nightclubs who have their bouncers beat up all their customers don't stay open as nightclubs for very long.
> 
> SR


I respectfully disagree. No one got roughed up here, especially not "all" the customers.


----------



## Basel

NateBishop3 said:


> ABM was banned for sending PM's to people he knew on this board, correct?
> 
> What constitutes spam? I'm curious. If one of my friends CC's me on an email that he sends to all of his friends, is that spam? He knows me. I know him.
> 
> You guys have fed that website into a censor, that was done intentionally. You may not have gone into PM's, but you still edited them through censorship. You banned ABM for PMing people he knew from the board with a link to a different forum. It's not like he was PMing people on other boards with that link.
> 
> 
> 
> Does that look like spam?


This, from the site's guidelines:



> Spamming & Solicitation - Multiple posting of identical or similar posts in one or more of our forums constitutes spamming. *Posting multiple links to other “identical” sites or links to “join” other similar sires without prior approval also constitutes as spam and will be subjected to the removal of posting privileges.*


----------



## Stepping Razor

Cinco de Mayo said:


> I respectfully disagree. No one got roughed up here, especially not "all" the customers.


The problem, though, is that enough of our friends here -- people who built up a longstanding respect in this community -- got tossed that a lot of the other folks walked out in solidarity. 

Again, you guys may well be completely in the right on the particulars of this dispute. But I think you're really at risk of losing the forest for the trees... if everyone leaves, what is the value of being right in this small dispute? Being right isn't always the same as doing the right thing.

SR


----------



## GNG

NateBishop3 said:


> Does that look like spam?


Yeah. I'm sorry and I'm not being snide, but...it is.


----------



## NateBishop3

Basel57 said:


> Spamming & Solicitation - Multiple posting of identical or similar posts in one or more of our *forums* constitutes spamming. Posting multiple links to other “identical” sites or links to “join” other similar sires without prior approval also constitutes as spam and will be subjected to the removal of posting privileges.


Sounds like you were really pushing the interpretation of this rule.


----------



## MARIS61

NateBishop3 said:


> ABM was banned for sending PM's to people he knew on this board, correct?
> 
> What constitutes spam? I'm curious. If one of my friends CC's me on an email that he sends to all of his friends, is that spam? He knows me. I know him.
> 
> You guys have fed that website into a censor, that was done intentionally. You may not have gone into PM's, but you still edited them through censorship. You banned ABM for PMing people he knew from the board with a link to a different forum. It's not like he was PMing people on other boards with that link.
> 
> 
> 
> Does that look like spam?


ABM did not PM the link to me, as we're not that close. He was not spamming. He did not break any rule that I can find.


----------



## NateBishop3

MARIS61 said:


> ABM did not PM the link to me, as we're not that close. He was not spamming. He did not break any rule that I can find.


winner! :clap2:


----------



## Basel

NateBishop3 said:


> Sounds like you were really pushing the interpretation of this rule.


There was an argument about this last time. You're right in that it doesn't specifically state that you can't spam in a PM, but I would think everyone here is smart enought to realize it's still a form of spam, whether done via posting on the actual forum or through PM.

ABM wasn't too smart PMing one of the Admins on this site with a link to the other board, either.


----------



## Basel

MARIS61 said:


> ABM did not PM the link to me, as we're not that close. He was not spamming. He did not break any rule that I can find.


He might not have PM'd you, but he PM'd more than a handful of members. Not sure what you're trying to get at.


----------



## NateBishop3

Basel57 said:


> There was an argument about this last time. You're right in that it doesn't specifically state that you can't spam in a PM, but I would think everyone here is smart enought to realize it's still a form of spam, whether done via posting on the actual forum or through PM.
> 
> ABM wasn't too smart PMing one of the Admins on this site with a link to the other board, either.


Oh, so you're admitting that he didn't actually break the rule as it's written? He found a loophole in your TOS and you still banned him. He didn't break your rules, but he did something you didn't like and you banned him? 

Maybe he thought that admin was a friend?


----------



## Basel

No, he didn't think the Admin was a friend, as he admitted to accidentally doing it and not paying attention to who he PM'd.

And for the record, I didn't ban him. And I see where you're going with this, getting technical in terms of how the rules are written. But if spamming isn't allowed on the forums, I would think the poster would know it's also not allowed through personal messages. Apparently, I was wrong, though. Consider it an unwritten rule.


----------



## yuyuza1

Stepping Razor said:


> The problem, though, is that enough of our friends here -- people who built up a longstanding respect in this community -- got tossed that a lot of the other folks walked out in solidarity.
> 
> Again, you guys may well be completely in the right on the particulars of this dispute. But I think you're really at risk of losing the forest for the trees... if everyone leaves, what is the value of being right in this small dispute? Being right isn't always the same as doing the right thing.
> 
> SR


 ^^ knows what's up ^^ 

Excellent post, SR.


----------



## It's_GO_Time

Stepping Razor said:


> Again, you guys may well be completely in the right on the particulars of this dispute. But I think you're really at risk of losing the forest for the trees... if everyone leaves, what is the value of being right in this small dispute? Being right isn't always the same as doing the right thing.
> 
> SR



Without being involved in the OT section last week, you nailed the shame in all this. Mook pointed out that this was a temporary problem (politics are in the air and will all go away when the season starts). It was really a small deal that got way out of control on everybody's part.

But it was the attitude of too bad, leave if you want that really was uncalled for. It appeared that members cared more than mods/admins about the fact memebers were leaving. They really could care less if we leave . . . and I beleive them. I watched it happen in the net forum and learned that it happened in the Chicago forum.

Reality is they don't care if quality posters leave. I'm not sure why becuase the posters who have left routinely had good thoughts, were great at expressing themselves and posted often. They should want these posters, these posters are doing the work for the site or at least this forum. They take the time out of their busy day to put together well thought out posts that many others come on here to read.

I know they don't care who leaves, but they should . . . it makes their job easier if these poster stay. But I think it's too late, many have dug their heels into the sand.


----------



## MARIS61

I have been told in the past by a mod that if I wanted to share a link to another sports forum I should PM it to him.

Was he trying to set me up, or does he understand the rules better than you?


----------



## NateBishop3

Basel57 said:


> No, he didn't think the Admin was a friend, as he admitted to accidentally doing it and not paying attention to who he PM'd.
> 
> And for the record, I didn't ban him. And I see where you're going with this, getting technical in terms of how the rules are written. But if spamming isn't allowed on the forums, I would think the poster would know it's also not allowed through personal messages. Apparently, I was wrong, though. Consider it an unwritten rule.


A cop can't bust you for unwritten rules. A district attorney can't prosecute you because you "would think you would know it's also not allowed". Laws are written for a reason. Unwritten rules leave the enforcement of that rule open to interpretation. You guys are well within your rights to do whatever you want to do, but you'll come off as gustapo and that is the very reason you're losing posters. period. 

If you want to enforce something, you better make sure it's very clear in the TOS, otherwise you'll come off as the bad guys.


----------



## rocketeer

NateBishop3 said:


> Oh, so you're admitting that he didn't actually break the rule as it's written? He found a loophole in your TOS and you still banned him. He didn't break your rules, but he did something you didn't like and you banned him?


it was definitely spam.

and if a few people didn't overreact to a small change(post political threads in the political forum instead of the off topic forum) none of this would have happened. it really wouldn't have been hard to just abide by those rules for the time being and to have voiced displeasure over the change in a reasonable manner. the likely outcome would have been exactly what happened now with a new mod being brought in and the off topic forum allowing political discussion again except no posters would have been banned. you can't blame the mods when guys are spamming, starting several new threads in the wrong areas that they were specifically warned not to make multiple times, and then trying to make new names and post anyway after receiving temporary bans.


----------



## MARIS61

Basel57 said:


> He might not have PM'd you, but he PM'd more than a handful of members. Not sure what you're trying to get at.


How would you know how many he PM'd the link to if you can't/aren't reading PM's?

And am I correct in assuming none of them, except the admin, complained?


----------



## furball

I thought I would stay on 911 posts for good, but it really is sad how morons like Cinco and Basel have ruined what was a great Basketball community. Mostly I think it is because of jealously because our boards have been so much more active than theirs. I also think they enjoy arguing with us. Why else do they constantly have to interject in our threads in our forums. They enjoy the fact that old posters are leaving. It makes them feel important. They are just nerds who hide behind their screen names, and what I can see have an incredible lack of basketball knowledge for people with 10,000 + posts. When respectful posters like Nate Bishop leave the board, you know it is basically over as far as intelligent basketball discussions. Many of the banned members were not favorites of mine. I though Dan/Hap was a jerk, but at least he had opinions and could type a sentence without mispelling half the words. This board is destined for "Lakers Suck" threads and "Fire Nate" threads after every loss. Remember "Zidane". That dude alone almost killed the board. Congrats mods. You have officially killed this forum. Maybe "Mixum" can get his handle back.:azdaja:


----------



## rocketeer

It's_GO_Time said:


> But it was the attitude of too bad, leave if you want that really was uncalled for. It appeared that members cared more than mods/admins about the fact memebers were leaving. They really could care less if we leave . . . and I beleive them. I watched it happen in the net forum and learned that it happened in the Chicago forum.


it's all of the *****ing, complaining, being unreasonable, and expecting special treatment that causes the attitude of "too bad, leave if you want".


----------



## jwhoops11

MARIS61 said:


> Good accurate read of the problem, JW. It was, IMO, a problem started by a Mod, and then it snowballed when he brought in mods who were unfamiliar with the posters so they took his word there was a problem and refused to listen to most of the posters who were trying to clue them in on the real problem.
> 
> It was, in the end, rude and insulting attacks from mods and admins that made posters realize this board ain't what it used to be.
> 
> Maybe we can find an online "Mod Charm School" for their training. :biggrin:
> 
> How ya doin', BTW?


I'm doing good Maris, sans the getting my butt kicked in this years fantasy leagues. 

I don't post much anymore, but do enjoy coming here almost daily to see whose skin you're getting under 

It pains me to say this, but for the most part, all those things you used to preach to us on the other board we were on played out to be true. I remember how frustrated we got with you from time to time, but the truth is you were and continue to be a very level headed fan and I appreciate that.

How are things down your way?


----------



## DaRizzle

hi mom


----------



## Basel

MARIS61 said:


> I have been told in the past by a mod that if I wanted to share a link to another sports forum I should PM it to him.
> 
> Was he trying to set me up, or does he understand the rules better than you?


If he was PMing an Admin to get the approval to send a link through PM's, then it's a different story. But he sent the same PM to everyone else, trying to get them to join the other board. 





NateBishop3 said:


> A cop can't bust you for unwritten rules. A district attorney can't prosecute you because you would think you would know it's also not allowed. Laws are written for a reason. Unwritten rules leave the enforcement of that rule open to interpretation. You guys are well within your rights to do whatever you want to do, but you'll come off as gustapo and that is the very reason you're losing posters. period.
> 
> If you want to enforce something, you better make sure it's very clear in the TOS, otherwise you'll come off as the bad guys.


It seems I've already come off as the bad guy, anyway. As have all the other Mods/Admins here. And you're right; a cop and DA can't bust you/prosecute you for what I mentioned, but nobody here is a cop or DA. We're on a message board, where you can get away with something like that more.

If you were the Admin of a message board, would you honestly be okay with it if a member of your board was PMing a ton of other members, trying to get them to leave your site?


----------



## Basel

MARIS61 said:


> How would you know how many he PM'd the link to if you can't/aren't reading PM's?
> 
> And am I correct in assuming none of them, except the admin, complained?


Because a lot of members at your other board have already said that it was ABM's PM that got them to that board. The posters might not have complained because I know all the Blazers members are cool with each other, but that doesn't change the fact that it was a form of spam.


----------



## furball

If I lose customers in my business, I want to find out why and stop the bleeding. The mods on this board seem to want to gash the wounds. Maybe instead of *****ing about the mods, we should write letter to all of the sponsors of this site. If they start losing sponsorship, maybe then the tools will stay in their own forums.


----------



## GNG

MARIS61 said:


> ABM did not PM the link to me, as we're not that close. He was not spamming. He did not break any rule that I can find.


He broke the common sense rule. Everyone knows what the intentions were.

How old are *you*?


----------



## NateBishop3

Basel57 said:


> If you were the Admin of a message board, would you honestly be okay with it if a member of your board was PMing a ton of other members, trying to get them to leave your site?


Does it really matter if I'm okay with it? You can't stop it. I still found out about Sports2, so did most others. It's not hard to follow the bread crumbs. You only created a martyr, and in the process pushed even more posters away from this site. You let your site do your talking. If you believe you have a good product, you let your product stand for itself. 



> It seems I've already come off as the bad guy, anyway. As have all the other Mods/Admins here. And you're right; a cop and DA can't bust you/prosecute you for what I mentioned, but nobody here is a cop or DA. We're on a message board, where you can get away with something like that more.


It's like I said, you're free to do whatever you want. But when you can't even stand behind your own TOS, and when you have to make up rules as you go, that's when you start losing customers. That's when you start getting a bad reputation. Why should I stay on a board that makes up rules on the fly to punish those that they disapprove of?

Your TOS doesn't say "Spamming is prohibited". It doesn't matter if ABM was spamming or not. Your rules say (as you so generously posted):



> Spamming & Solicitation - Multiple posting of identical or similar posts in one or more of our forums constitutes spamming. Posting multiple links to other “identical” sites or links to “join” other similar sires without prior approval also constitutes as spam and will be subjected to the removal of posting privileges.


Nowhere in that does it say that PM's are off limits.


----------



## rocketeer

furball said:


> If I lose customers in my business, I want to find out why and stop the bleeding. The mods on this board seem to want to gash the wounds. Maybe instead of *****ing about the mods, we should write letter to all of the sponsors of this site. If they start losing sponsorship, maybe then the tools will stay in their own forums.


where would you like the community mods to stay?

and since when did you get to decide who gets to come in what forums? because they are mods, they aren't allowed here?


----------



## furball

This whole thread was a Blazer poster asking other Blazer posters what was happening to this site. And yet it turned into a mod calling a Blazer poster Maxipad. This is what we call a troll. You can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig.


----------



## Basel

It's funny that I'm being called a moron and a tool from some of the members in this thread, when I'm just giving my opinion on the matter and being level headed about it (in my opinion).


----------



## Stepping Razor

furball said:


> You can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig.


This kind of blatantly anti-Sarah Palin commentary clearly belongs in the OT Forum. Oops, I mean in the PE Forum. Oh, hell. 

SR


----------



## rocketeer

furball said:


> This whole thread was a Blazer poster asking other Blazer posters what was happening to this site. And yet it turned into a mod calling a Blazer poster Maxipad. This is what we call a troll. You can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig.


did you think up that last line all by yourself? it's a pretty good one and i definitely heard it recently or anything.

and HCP knew exactly what was going on with the site.


----------



## MARIS61

Living the good life and getting ready for deer and elk hunting soon. Weather has been great all summer, had a ginormous 2 level deck built out back and have had some luck fishing in the river when I'm not hot-tubbing with my gorgeous wife. Can't complain.


----------



## furball

Basel57 said:


> It's funny that I'm being called a moron and a tool from some of the members in this thread, when I'm just giving my opinion on the matter in a reasonable way.


----------



## DaRizzle

It was my parents 40th anniversary yesterday


----------



## hoojacks

Basel57 said:


> Because a lot of members at your other board have already said that it was ABM's PM that got them to that board.


Pshhh, I had to do some good old fashioned googling to see where all the interesting posters went to. Thanks for nothing, ABM.

also: this whole thing reeks of middle school drama. It's a forum on the internet. If we'd just live and let live it wouldn't open the floodgates for all the mixums and mplses of the world to come and ruin the forum. Alienating a whole swath of posters does ruin the forum. But again, it's a forum on the internet. Let's all get over ourselves.


----------



## It's_GO_Time

MARIS61 said:


> Living the good life and getting ready for deer and elk hunting soon. Weather has been great all summer, had a ginormous 2 level deck built out back and have had some luck fishing in the river when I'm not hot-tubbing with my gorgeous wife. Can't complain.


So you take a trip to Hawaii and then build a 2 level deck with a hot tub. 

Has anyone clued you in that the economy sucks right now? What's your secret?


----------



## HB

> Pshhh, I had to do some good old fashioned googling to see where all the interesting posters went to. Thanks for nothing, ABM.
> 
> also: this whole thing reeks of middle school drama. It's a forum on the internet. If we'd just live and let live it wouldn't open the floodgates for all the mixums and mplses of the world to come and ruin the forum. Alienating a whole swath of posters does ruin the forum. But again, it's a forum on the internet. Let's all get over ourselves.


^I couldnt have said it any better myself. I have always thought to myself that some take the internet way too seriously


----------



## MARIS61

Basel57 said:


> If you were the Admin of a message board, would you honestly be okay with it if a member of your board was PMing a ton of other members, trying to get them to leave your site?


Absolutely.

It's silly to think you can keep them here by keeping them in the dark.

It's just as silly that you think they'll leave just because they get a link.

I have received 2 links by PM, and 3 by email now.

None from banned members.

I've posted a little on some of them but I'm still here, too.

If you make people feel welcome and provide a place to post, you'll do okay.

If they're not comfy, they'll leave.


----------



## It's_GO_Time

DaRizzle said:


> It was my parents 40th anniversary yesterday


So that makes you what . . . 44 years old?


----------



## DaRizzle

It's_GO_Time said:


> So that makes you what . . . 44 years old?


****er :azdaja:


----------



## It's_GO_Time

DaRizzle said:


> ****er :azdaja:


Come on DaRizzle, I'm giving you an out. 

You can blame your dysfunctional personality and loyalty to the Lakers as a product of your childhood rather that have to own it yourself. :biggrin:


----------



## DaRizzle

**** you, you ****in ****!



:biggrin:


----------



## It's_GO_Time

DaRizzle said:


> **** you, you ****in ****!
> 
> 
> 
> :biggrin:


Love you, you hunkin stud?????

For the record, I don't play on that side of the field, but I love you too . . . in an internet kind of way.


----------



## DaRizzle

How did u guess


----------



## GNG

NateBishop3 said:


> Sounds like you were really pushing the interpretation of this rule.


You should get VerticalScope involved to see what they think. Maybe you can eat them alive too.

ABM was doing just what the rule prohibits, except in stealth. I hardly see a difference, the admins hardly see a difference, and I find it "amusing" how you can try to debate loopholes when you're hanging out on another site that comes right and tells you in its guidelines that their staff can handle pretty much any situation at its own discretion and that you're expected to abide by that decision.

The herd mentality is cute and all, but really, it was played out a week ago.


----------



## Stepping Razor

Cinco de Mayo said:


> Maybe you should get VerticalScope involved to see what they think. Maybe you can eat them alive too.


Why, as a Community Mod, are you mixing it up with members in such personally insulting terms over such a petty disagreement? Is it worth it to destroy this board in order to win this one argument, even if you're technically in the right?

This is just crazy. The guy your fighting with is one of the longest-tenured, best-respected posters on this board. The self-destructiveness of what you're doing is just staggering.

SR

PS I'm not saying that Nate Bishop isn't acting kind of pissy in this thread, too... he is. But if you insist on making Blazers board posters choose sides between you and Nate Bishop (or other folks like him... or ABM... or maxiep (not maxiepad)... or Ed O... or Minstrel... or MARIS... or me) they are going to choose the guy who has long earned the respect of this forum, every time. It's a fight you lose, even if you win. Just let it go, man.


----------



## DaRizzle

Cinco de Mayo said:


> Maybe you should get VerticalScope involved to see what they think. Maybe you can eat them alive too.


I looked up the SN "VerticalScope"...there is no member by that name. Why do you address this poster as "them"...Is he the all knowing poster?


----------



## Basel

DaRizzle said:


> I looked up the SN "VerticalScope"...there is no member by that name. Why do you address this poster as "them"...Is he the all knowing poster?


Please tell me you're kidding, Rizzle.


----------



## Oldmangrouch

I don't claim to be an expert on the internet, but every message board I visit has the same rule: if you get into trouble, you DO NOT create a gimmick account to get around the suspension/restrictions. I was sorry to see it, but Maxiep messed up!

As for ABM - personally, I wish he hadn't been banned...particularly since the actual written rule is ambiguous. OTOH, I am puzzled and even offended by his actions. This board has been a great place to discuss BASKETBALL. Trying to trash it over something that has nothing to do with the purpose of the board, makes no damn sense to me! It's like running your car off a cliff because the ashtray is full.


----------



## STOMP

Stepping Razor said:


> Why, as a Community Mod, are you mixing it up with members in such personally insulting terms over such a petty disagreement? Is it worth it to destroy this board in order to win this one argument, even if you're technically in the right?
> 
> This is just crazy. The guy your fighting with is one of the longest-tenured, best-respected posters on this board. The self-destructiveness of what you're doing is just staggering.
> 
> SR
> 
> PS I'm not saying that Nate Bishop isn't acting kind of pissy in this thread, too... he is. But if you insist on making Blazers board posters choose sides between you and Nate Bishop (or other folks like him... or ABM... or maxiep (not maxiepad)... or Ed O... or Minstrel... or MARIS... or me) they are going to choose the guy who has long earned the respect of this forum, every time. It's a fight you lose, even if you win. Just let it go, man.


its seems pretty classic _cutting off your nose to spite your face_ stuff 

to be fair, some of our own Mods struggled with where to draw when participating too.

STOMP


----------



## DaRizzle

Basel57 said:


> Please tell me you're kidding, Rizzle.


yes :clap:


----------



## MARIS61

It's_GO_Time said:


> So you take a trip to Hawaii and then build a 2 level deck with a hot tub.
> 
> Has anyone clued you in that the economy sucks right now? What's your secret?


I live by The Golden Rule, and Karma has been golden to me. eace:


----------



## Goldmember

Wow 8 pages of this stuff. The the longest thread running on the board. 

Seriously folks, it's not like you're paying to post here. They can run it however they want. If you miss ten or so posters then get their email or something and maybe you can get together and have a hug. 

Traffic will come back when the season gets going. The Blazer board will always dominate this site. Rip City!


----------



## rocketeer

STOMP said:


> its seems pretty classic _cutting off your nose to spite your face_ stuff
> 
> to be fair, some of our own Mods struggled with where to draw when participating too.
> 
> STOMP


nah. i'd say it's a classic case of people not being able to handle a small situation reasonably and then threatening to leave and in many cases actually leaving and then getting mad because no one is bending over backwards trying to get them to come back or stay.


----------



## BlayZa

the board is just a vehicle to converse between our community - its doesn't matter where imo, at the end of the day i want to talk Blazer ball with most active, dedicated and knowledgeable fans on the net and the simple fact is a lot of these people have given up on BBF and moved on to sports2 - the migration continues.

even though i wasn't directly aware of the situation around the leaving of the members, the fact remains the move has happened. i've been here nearly 6yrs and it was never about my love for BBB or BBF (although BBB was better) its always been about the members. there is no , awww ive been here 6yrs n have XXXX posts..... its just a simple change in homepage/shortcuts and the discussion with the community and 'friends' ive made continues. 

i'll still drop in here and see if there is anything happening but even already its less and less


----------



## hoojacks

BlayZa said:


> the board is just a vehicle to converse between our community - its doesn't matter where imo, at the end of the day i want to talk Blazer ball with most active, dedicated and knowledgeable fans on the net and the simple fact is a lot of these people have given up on BBF and moved on to sports2 - the migration continues.
> 
> even though i wasn't directly aware of the situation around the leaving of the members, the fact remains the move has happened. i've been here nearly 6yrs and it was never about my love for BBB or BBF (although BBB was better) its always been about the members. there is no , awww ive been here 6yrs n have XXXX posts..... its just a simple change in homepage/shortcuts and the discussion with the community and 'friends' ive made continues.
> 
> i'll still drop in here and see if there is anything happening but even already its less and less


+1


----------



## Hector

MARIS61 said:


> ABM did not PM the link to me, as we're not that close. He was not spamming. He did not break any rule that I can find.


He PMd me, although he knows me far less than you. So he must have left you out because he didn't want an iconoclast like you on his board. You better stay here with me.


----------



## Hector

Cinco de Mayo said:


> This isn't going to lead to another long thread about shoulda-coulda-woulda.


The length of the thread which hashes out events should be our decision, not yours.



Cinco de Mayo said:


> We had been getting a lot of complaints about specific posters on the Blazers OT board. Those complaints and those posters' obvious trolling were wearing moderators thin.


What kinds of complaints? Why not air these before taking action, to get a consensus opinion of what to do?



Cinco de Mayo said:


> Moderators decided to do something about the situation. Instead of getting upset with the trolls, the Blazers board goes nuclear.


I don't remember any trolls. I remember that the OT board suddenly greatly increased its number of threads because of increased posting by certain people like maxiep.



Cinco de Mayo said:


> Guys like Maxiepad act like four-year-olds and act insubordinate enough to get themselves suspended and then banned.


What exactly did he do? Apparently the posts were deleted because when I search his name I can't find the offending posts. I do see an increased volume in posts in his last 3 weeks or so. He likes to act superior and play offense, not defense, so he gives short, sometimes sarcastic answers which answer nothing, which then provokes many responses. So threads involving him drag on and on.

Your use of the word "insubordinate" shows your authoritarian attitude toward us peons. We have no duty to obey you. In summary, I like Basel, while Cinco de Mayo thinks he's the general and we're the privates.


----------



## Hector

I should add that I think that a written (not unwritten) rule should be added that you can't spam PMs, not just forums. However, I can't blame the site owners (who are they, by the way?) for taking action against someone telling everyone to dump this board.

The same can be more cleverly accomplished by just linking to the other site, i.e. to the other board's post that is relevant to this board's thread in which the link is posted. Readers link to the post, and then explore the site. We do that with RealGM, etc. all the time.


----------



## Hector

jwhoops11 said:


> I don't post much anymore, but do enjoy coming here almost daily to see whose skin you're getting under
> 
> It pains me to say this, but for the most part, all those things you used to preach to us on the other board we were on played out to be true. I remember how frustrated we got with you from time to time, but the truth is you were and continue to be a very level headed fan and I appreciate that


I'm new to this. I have an idea, jwhoops. You should call Maris psycho every chance you get. Then the skin you get under would be his. Have you ever tried that with anyone?


----------



## sa1177

Hector said:


> What exactly did he do? Apparently the posts were deleted because when I search his name I can't find the offending posts. I do see an increased volume in posts in his last 3 weeks or so. He likes to act superior and play offense, not defense, so he gives short, sometimes sarcastic answers which answer nothing, which then provokes many responses. So threads involving him drag on and on.
> 
> Your use of the word "insubordinate" shows your authoritarian attitude toward us peons. We have no duty to obey you. In summary, I like Basel, while Cinco de Mayo thinks he's the general and we're the privates.


Let me clarify this for you since their seems to be some confusion. Maxie was not banned for any of his political posts or his views...he was banned because be broke two simple and very clear site rules. #1 he posted a link to another site, thats considered SPAM here regardless of what site it is or what content it provides. #2 after being suspended for the above he created multiple usernames in order to evade his suspension. Like the rules or not we all agreed to them when we signed up here.


----------



## mediocre man

sa1177 said:


> Let me clarify this for you since their seems to be some confusion. Maxie was not banned for any of his political posts or his views...he was banned because be broke two simple and very clear site rules. #1 he posted a link to another site, thats considered SPAM here regardless of what site it is or what content it provides. #2 after being suspended for the above he created multiple usernames in order to evade his suspension. Like the rules or not we all agreed to them when we signed up here.


We all post links to other sites though. 

For example: http://portlandtribune.com/sports/story.php?story_id=122214766554563800

That is a link to the Tribune's article on Rudy Fernandez. I think just about every single poster has posted a link to one site or another. 

Is there a double standard because the link was a competitors site? That would make no sense because people post O-Live links all the time and they have a forum as well.


----------



## NateBishop3

Cinco de Mayo said:


> You should get VerticalScope involved to see what they think. Maybe you can eat them alive too.
> 
> ABM was doing just what the rule prohibits, except in stealth. I hardly see a difference, the admins hardly see a difference, and I find it "amusing" how you can try to debate loopholes when you're hanging out on another site that comes right and tells you in its guidelines that their staff can handle pretty much any situation at its own discretion and that you're expected to abide by that decision.
> 
> The herd mentality is cute and all, but really, it was played out a week ago.


<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/FtBVIQ3rfd8&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/FtBVIQ3rfd8&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>


----------



## HB

mediocre man said:


> We all post links to other sites though.
> 
> For example: http://portlandtribune.com/sports/story.php?story_id=122214766554563800
> 
> That is a link to the Tribune's article on Rudy Fernandez. I think just about every single poster has posted a link to one site or another.
> 
> Is there a double standard because the link was a competitors site? That would make no sense because people post O-Live links all the time and they have a forum as well.


Think O-live admins would take kindly to sending messages to their posters to go post elsewhere? How about the site you mentioned, think they'd take kindly to someone pming their posters to go post elsewhere?

This isnt the only message board I post on, but I have the decency to respect the rules of the other boards I visit.

As for this whole topic, it still baffles me. We are all supposed to be adults here, hopefully we can make our own decisions. If the board isnt catering to your needs, no one is going to hold it against you if you leave, personally I won't. Its a message board for goodness sake, things are not as serious as people have made it to be.


----------



## mediocre man

HB said:


> Think O-live admins would take kindly to sending messages to their posters to go post elsewhere? How about the site you mentioned, think they'd take kindly to someone pming their posters to go post elsewhere?
> 
> This isnt the only message board I post on, but I have the decency to respect the rules of the other boards I visit.
> 
> As for this whole topic, it still baffles me. We are all supposed to be adults here, hopefully we can make our own decisions. If the board isnt catering to your needs, no one is going to hold it against you if you leave, personally I won't. Its a message board for goodness sake, things are not as serious as people have made it to be.




I think that is a great rule of thumb for the admins to follow as well. 

The rules say not to post links. Everyone does, but if it's a link to a site the admins don't like you get in trouble. Most every single place people post links to have forums, so in reality by linking a story you are more than likely "pimping" the site out aren't you?


----------



## Krstic All-Star

By the way, I was hoping that maxiep would post more in PE... ah well.


----------



## Krstic All-Star

DonCorleone said:


> Football season is definitely the reason I have been visiting this board less frequently lately.


Football season you say? Have you been to our sister site FootballForum.com? [I plug shamelessly, I know ]


----------



## GNG

sa1177 said:


> #1 he posted a link to another site, thats considered SPAM here regardless of what site it is or what content it provides.


You should probably clarify or restate this. They're on an "ultra-literal" kick as of late.


----------



## Reep

HB said:


> How about the site you mentioned, think they'd take kindly to someone pming their posters to go post elsewhere?


Actually, they publicly state that they don't care if you post such information in threads or PMs. They (sports2) promote an open forum and try to keep their members by creating a better product, not by suppressing communications about competing sites--they are not afraid of competition. So far, they are doing a pretty good job. It's kind of funny because you get the feeling they would rather see their site fail than to suppress the forum, and that model is working quite well for them.


----------



## GNG

Stepping Razor said:


> Why, as a Community Mod, are you mixing it up with members in such personally insulting terms over such a petty disagreement? Is it worth it to destroy this board in order to win this one argument, even if you're technically in the right?
> 
> This is just crazy. The guy your fighting with is one of the longest-tenured, best-respected posters on this board. The self-destructiveness of what you're doing is just staggering.
> 
> SR
> 
> PS I'm not saying that Nate Bishop isn't acting kind of pissy in this thread, too... he is. But if you insist on making Blazers board posters choose sides between you and Nate Bishop (or other folks like him... or ABM... or maxiep (not maxiepad)... or Ed O... or Minstrel... or MARIS... or me) they are going to choose the guy who has long earned the respect of this forum, every time. It's a fight you lose, even if you win. Just let it go, man.


I'm not mixing it up anymore than things normally are on this board. If Nate or MARIS' intentions were really genuine, they'd be getting fewer barbs. But the fact of the matter is that they're here only to stir the pot a bit more, keep the e-drama going and then high-fiving themselves on Sports2 about how they've really raked us over the coals and stuck it to the fascist mods with their mad debate skillz. When they've done anything but. 

It's transparent, and they've even admitted as much on the other site. Not too honorable for someone who's one of the group's best-respected posters.

The level of thick-headedness is really pretty astounding. WHADDYA MEAN I'M NOT ALLOWED TO STAGE AN EXODUS TO A COMPETING MESSAGE BOARD? IF I POST A YOUTUBE LINK, IS THAT SPAM NOW? THESE RULES ARE SO CONFUSING! I mean...really? That nearly every "outsider" to the Blazers board is defending the staff throughout this whole ordeal is pretty telling.

No one is making anyone choose sides outside of these very simple guidelines: 1) follow the Terms of Service; and 2) if you're here to talk Blazers, feel free. If you're here to ***** and make a spectacle, go elsewhere. It's really easy.


----------



## mediocre man

Cinco de Mayo said:


> I'm not mixing it up anymore than things normally are on this board. If Nate or MARIS' intentions were really genuine, they'd be getting fewer barbs. But the fact of the matter is that they're here only to stir the pot a bit more, keep the e-drama going and then high-fiving themselves on Sports2 about how they've really raked us over the coals and stuck it to the fascist mods with their mad debate skillz. When they've done anything but.
> 
> It's transparent, and they've even admitted as much on the other site. Not too honorable for someone who's one of the group's best-respected posters.
> 
> The level of thick-headedness is really pretty astounding. WHADDYA MEAN I'M NOT ALLOWED TO STAGE AN EXODUS TO A COMPETING MESSAGE BOARD? IF I POST A YOUTUBE LINK, IS THAT SPAM NOW? THESE RULES ARE SO CONFUSING! I mean...really? That nearly every "outsider" to the Blazers board is defending the staff throughout this whole ordeal is pretty telling.
> 
> No one is making anyone choose sides outside of these very simple guidelines: 1) follow the Terms of Service; and 2) if you're here to talk Blazers, feel free. If you're here to ***** and make a spectacle, go elsewhere. It's really easy.



Since you are not here to talk Blazers then maybe you should go elsewhere. Our board was great until a few of mods and admins got involved. Go back to your own teams forums and let us be.


----------



## Zybot

sa1177 said:


> Let me clarify this for you since their seems to be some confusion. Maxie was not banned for any of his political posts or his views...he was banned because be broke two simple and very clear site rules. #1 he posted a link to another site, thats considered SPAM here regardless of what site it is or what content it provides. #2 after being suspended for the above he created multiple usernames in order to evade his suspension. Like the rules or not we all agreed to them when we signed up here.


Sa -- that is not exactly ture. Basel said that he originally banned maxiep for creating a thread about Kobe and rape which in Basel's words was "an obvious attempt to get under my skin." It wasn't for promoting another site. Many were upset about maxiep getting banned -- ABM told certain posters where they could find maxiep and promoted the other site. ABM was then banned and that is what sparked the migration.


----------



## mediocre man

Zybot said:


> Sa -- that is not exactly ture. Basel said that he originally banned maxiep for creating a thread about Kobe and rape which in Basel's words was "an obvious attempt to get under my skin." It wasn't for promoting another site. Many were upset about maxiep getting banned -- ABM told certain posters where they could find maxiep and promoted the other site. ABM was then banned and that is what sparked the migration.


We will not have the truth spread around in this forum Zybot. You should know better.


----------



## GNG

mediocre man said:


> Since you are not here to talk Blazers then maybe you should go elsewhere. Our board was great until a few of mods and admins got involved. Go back to your own teams forums and let us be.


Ah yes, the killjoy community mods who respond to complaints. Why are they always meddling and picking on us?

Personally, I don't regret the decision being made to filter political posts to the Political Forum. I DO regret the way it was done. But what's done is done, and now people have to get over it.


----------



## Zybot

mediocre man said:


> We will not have the truth spread around in this forum Zybot. You should know better.


I guess I left out part of the explanation too. After suspended, then maxiep apparently violated rule #2 that sa quotes above which made the temp ban permanent.


----------



## Krstic All-Star

mediocre man said:


> We will not have the truth spread around in this forum Zybot. You should know better.


Would you say we can't handle the truth?


----------



## GrandpaBlaze

Basel57 said:


> But if spamming isn't allowed on the forums, I would think the poster would know it's also not allowed through personal messages.


The part that gets me is that the specific wording of those messages is "Private Message". However, it would appear private messages are not _really_ private. 

If someone has a problem with someone else sending them PM's, they should then be able to PM a mod about potentially dealing with the issue. The idea of administrator's reading "private" messages and then banning someone on content that is purported to be private, I find distasteful.

Gramps...


----------



## Futurama_Fanatic

Krstic All Star said:


> Football season you say? Have you been to our sister site FootballForum.com? [I plug shamelessly, I know ]


dont you know what this whole argument is about

:rules:


----------



## GNG

mediocre man said:


> We will not have the truth spread around in this forum Zybot. You should know better.


The truth of course, being that the moderators went through and edited all the private messages, closed everything, and when Blazer posters asked, "Excuse me Mr. Moderator, but may I inquire why you are doing this?" the mods' response was, "HAW PUNY POSTER, YOU WILL RESPECT MY INTERNET **** OF AUTHORITY!"

And then banned them just to show that they could.


----------



## GNG

GrandpaBlaze said:


> The part that gets me is that the specific wording of those messages is "Private Message". However, it would appear private messages are not _really_ private.
> 
> If someone has a problem with someone else sending them PM's, they should then be able to PM a mod about potentially dealing with the issue. The idea of administrator's reading "private" messages and then banning someone on content that is purported to be private, I find distasteful.
> 
> Gramps...


Moderators and Administrators didn't read any PMs that weren't sent to them. ABM got shown the door because he sent his message DIRECTLY to an administrator. If he didn't PM the admin, no one would have known (but would have surmised, I'm sure, given that no one's being shy over on the other board).


----------



## Krstic All-Star

GrandpaBlaze said:


> The part that gets me is that the specific wording of those messages is "Private Message". However, it would appear private messages are not _really_ private.
> 
> If someone has a problem with someone else sending them PM's, they should then be able to PM a mod about potentially dealing with the issue. The idea of administrator's reading "private" messages and then banning someone on content that is purported to be private, I find distasteful.
> 
> Gramps...


We cannot and do not read private messages. In fact, much of our knowledge about who's been sending what has come from public posts made on the other site. Again, I am very familiar with the abilities of an Admin, and wouldn't have the first idea how to go about reading PMs, much less anything else. The myth of our doing so is incorrect and absurd.

EDIT: Cinco already explained ABM's specific case. I should add that the general rule is that when posters report spam PMs to us we act - but not before that. We simply don't have that ability, even against spambots that employ mass PMs.


----------



## Krstic All-Star

Futurama_Fanatic said:


> dont you know what this whole argument is about
> 
> :rules:


Sadly, I'm only too familiar with it... 

As for my shameless plug, it is on the bottom of the screen here to begin with, if anyone scrolls down that far. 

I'm thinking of changing my avatar to Judge Dredd - funny, or in poor taste?


----------



## MrJayremmie

Way too big of a deal is being made out of this, in my opinion. But it is extremely sad to see some of the blazer board go.

For some of the mods, you come to the Blazer board to obviously argue, and mods like Cinco have come here to mock some of the threads and the people over my time here, and the question has been raised why he is even a mod because some of the things he does which seem like baiting, trolling, and attacks. If you being here (if you don't need to as a Portland board mod) causes problems, why do you just not come, and let the board start the re-building process?


----------



## GOD

Well, I come to these boards to discuss stuff, mostly Blazer stuff, with a solid community of fans. I don't care about the URL. Right now, for whatever reason, many of my favorite posters have gone to the other site. So I will mostly be over there, but I will check back. Hopefully, the mods and members can repair the problem so that all my favorite posters can be on one site again. Until then, I will be checking in from time to time at both sites, and will choose the one that has more quality posters. Also, as a side note, this site takes longer to load than the other one, so if the powers that be are smart, they would do something about that as well.


----------



## GrandpaBlaze

Krstic All Star said:


> We cannot and do not read private messages.


I appreciate knowing that. However, from reading posts earlier in the thread it sure seemed like people were being banned for PM's with little mention that they were banned for PM's sent to Admins.



> much of our knowledge about who's been sending what has come from public posts made on the other site


Hmmm, that makes it sound as if you go out searching for inflammatory information that you can then use as grounds for banning a person.

I came here from ESPN as there was a migration of posters I respected here. Sure, there were some who did not migrate and I miss them and their input. Likewise, I've noticed a migration here and I now visit both locations. Over time one may prove more dominant than the other and I may totally abandon the other site (which I eventually did with ESPN).

I hate seeing the migration as this has long been a place of high knowledge and great discussion. I'm sure as the training camp begins and the season starts, it will become much more evident which site has the better content when there is actual basketball to discuss.

However, I must echo the sentiments others have expressed; when people I have long read and respect migrate, I go with those I know and trust. Some rules, whether written or unwritten, may have been broken but when the enforcement of rules appears arbitrary (such as no links to other sites) it seriously calls into question the validity of said rules. Why not change the rule to state that links to other sites are OK as long as the message and link are not a solicitation to go to a competing site? From the discussion I've read, that seems to be the only time the rule is enforced; either it is a rule or it is not.

Gramps...


----------



## Krstic All-Star

GOD said:


> Well, I come to these boards to discuss stuff, mostly Blazer stuff, with a solid community of fans. I don't care about the URL. Right now, for whatever reason, many of my favorite posters have gone to the other site. So I will mostly be over there, but I will check back. Hopefully, the mods and members can repair the problem so that all my favorite posters can be on one site again. Until then, I will be checking in from time to time at both sites, and will choose the one that has more quality posters. *Also, as a side note, this site takes longer to load than the other one, so if the powers that be are smart, they would do something about that as well*.


Believe me, we're working on that, but it keeps recurring. I can assure you that it bugs us no less than it does you - and possibly more, when we're trying to work on things. For example, when this whole affair started, I wasn't able to log on that entire afternoon for some reason, which didn't help matters. Luckily, I was later able to reopen the OT Forum with a minimum of technical glitches... But yeah, that's definitely something we're trying to get fixed.

As for getting posters back on one site, I am more than willing to speak to anyone who got banned here, if he'd like to have a productive conversation about everything. If anyone can't contact me directly on here, relay your AIM SN through a PM, or something like that. I've always made it a point to be available for anyone who would like to clear things up.


----------



## mook

Although the migration began as a result of too much overall pissiness on all sides, I gotta say that there are some basic technical aspects this board lacks:
- The pages load much slower here
Not a huge difference, but substantial if you are on a slow connection. 

- You can't post links to competitor sites
This one boggles my mind. Does Verizon filter out any conversation you might have with a buddy about AT&T? Can you write the word Apple.com on a Windows PC browser? Of course. These companies could probably develop the technology to prevent you from communicating about competitors, but they don't bother. Doing so would make them appear insecure and overly interested in censorship. Guess how BBF looks? 

- You can't swear
Surprisingly to me, the lack of swearing is a big negative here. I mean, how often do you talk to your buddies about sports without intermingling four letter words on occasion? 

- There's a ton of advertising, particularly if you aren't logged in

- (Except for us old guys who haven't changed avatars in years) you can't do animated gif avatars
WTF? It's a small deal, but why eliminate a feature that lots of people liked 3 years ago? Seems strange that this board actually went backwards in technology. 

Truth is that I'm going to post wherever guys like Ed, Minstrel and barfo go, because I enjoy reading what they write. But when I visit this board and see these technical limitations, it certainly makes it easier.


----------



## Krstic All-Star

GrandpaBlaze said:


> I appreciate knowing that. However, from reading posts earlier in the thread it sure seemed like people were being banned for PM's with little mention that they were banned for PM's sent to Admins.
> 
> 
> 
> Hmmm, that makes it sound as if you go out searching for inflammatory information that you can then use as grounds for banning a person.


Believe me, nobody went looking for inflammatory information over there - but merely took note of posters bragging about sending PMs. Considering the vitriol that's been said over there, we really haven't been responding to posts, except when they directly involved actions made here on this site. The fact is that, as upsetting as many of the things said there are, we have not, do not, and will not make issue of them. Consider it outside our jurisdiction if you like. 



> I came here from ESPN as there was a migration of posters I respected here. Sure, there were some who did not migrate and I miss them and their input. Likewise, I've noticed a migration here and I now visit both locations. Over time one may prove more dominant than the other and I may totally abandon the other site (which I eventually did with ESPN).
> 
> I hate seeing the migration as this has long been a place of high knowledge and great discussion. I'm sure as the training camp begins and the season starts, it will become much more evident which site has the better content when there is actual basketball to discuss.
> 
> However, I must echo the sentiments others have expressed; when people I have long read and respect migrate, I go with those I know and trust. Some rules, whether written or unwritten, may have been broken but when the enforcement of rules appears arbitrary (such as no links to other sites) it seriously calls into question the validity of said rules. Why not change the rule to state that links to other sites are OK as long as the message and link are not a solicitation to go to a competing site? From the discussion I've read, that seems to be the only time the rule is enforced; either it is a rule or it is not.
> 
> Gramps...


You raise a good point about how enforcement of rules appears to be arbitrary. I confess that from the perspective of staff, most of it is clear - to the point where we don't even think about it. However, it does appear that some publicly accessible clarification is in order. In fact, thank you very much for the suggestion - I'll look to incorporate your suggestion as quickly as I can, and have it posted in the official TOS shortly. I really do appreciate it.


----------



## Basel

I don't think people know the real reason I banned maxiep. Some people think it's for him posting a link (which it's not), and others think it's because he posted the Kobe rape thread, which DID help in him getting banned, but wasn't the only reason.

It was originally a 5-day ban, but was changed to a permanent ban, and here's why: obviously there was a lot of ruckus involving why the political threads were moved to the PE forum. I closed one of the threads that had a ton of discussion (as I was asked to) and told them that if they had any further issues about what happened, to PM a Community Mod or Admin. maxiep didn't want to listen, and kept creating new topics. I gave him an infraction, and warned him to stop or it would result in a ban. He didn't stop and kept creating new threads, this time about Kobe Bryant raping women, which was an obvious attempt to try and get under my skin. I deleted those threads and banned him for 5 days; however, he created a new username that same night and started posting under it, which is a direct violation of the TOS (ban evasion). That ALWAYS results in a permanent ban; I don't care who you are on this board. So I banned his new username, and changed the ban on his "maxiep" username to permanent. I really didn't want to as I don't want members leaving, but it had to be done. I know some members disagree with it, but it's over with and he's gone.

And I'm sure of you guys have already read that before. He was purposely creating new threads in the OT forum after I had asked him not to, so I gave him an infraction. After the infraction, he went on to keep doing it (that's where the Kobe rape threads came). If he had waited for 5 days, he would've been back on the board, and it would've been a non-issue by now. But when you evade the ban, it's against the rules. 

Please stop making things up as to why people got banned.


----------



## Krstic All-Star

mook said:


> Although the migration began as a result of too much overall pissiness on all sides, I gotta say that there are some basic technical aspects this board lacks:
> - The pages load much slower here
> Not a huge difference, but substantial if you are on a slow connection.
> 
> - You can't post links to competitor sites
> This one boggles my mind. Does Verizon filter out any conversation you might have with a buddy about AT&T? Can you write the word Apple.com on a Windows PC browser? Of course. These companies could probably develop the technology to prevent you from communicating about competitors, but they don't bother. Doing so would make them appear insecure and overly interested in censorship. Guess how BBF looks?
> 
> - You can't swear
> Surprisingly to me, the lack of swearing is a big negative here. I mean, how often do you talk to your buddies about sports without intermingling four letter words on occasion?
> 
> - There's a ton of advertising, particularly if you aren't logged in
> 
> - (Except for us old guys who haven't changed avatars in years) you can't do animated gif avatars
> WTF? It's a small deal, but why eliminate a feature that lots of people liked 3 years ago? Seems strange that this board actually went backwards in technology.
> 
> Truth is that I'm going to post wherever guys like Ed, Minstrel and barfo go, because I enjoy reading what they write. But when I visit this board and see these technical limitations, it certainly makes it easier.


I've already mentioned how the site load time is an ongoing issue, but I'll bring up all of these issues for immediate discussion on the highest levels. Implementing some of them would involve serious alteration to long-standing policy, so I can't make any guarantees, but we'll definitely see what we can do now that everything's in the open.


----------



## jwhoops11

Hector said:


> I'm new to this. I have an idea, jwhoops. You should call Maris psycho every chance you get. Then the skin you get under would be his. Have you ever tried that with anyone?


I have, his name was JLPRK, ring a bell??

In fairness, I don't think I ever called you a psycho did I? That seems so PBF'esque.


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## HispanicCausinPanic

This is getting retarded! There are only like 3 guys that keep arguing with us on here. They aren't even "Blazer guys" If you you would just go away it would be like it was around here up until 2 weeks ago! Just go away! Go back to the Laker forum or Memphis forum or wherever you were until 14 days ago. This place was so much fun until then! Just stop!


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## Zybot

jwhoops11 said:


> I have, his name was JLPRK, ring a bell??
> 
> In fairness, I don't think I ever called you a psycho did I? That seems so PBF'esque.


Hey jwhoops -- i remember you from ESPN. Is that where you have been posting?


----------



## MARIS61

Cinco de Mayo said:


> I'm not mixing it up anymore than things normally are on this board. If Nate or MARIS' intentions were really genuine, they'd be getting fewer barbs. But the fact of the matter is that they're here only to stir the pot a bit more, keep the e-drama going and then high-fiving themselves on Sports2 about how they've really raked us over the coals and stuck it to the fascist mods with their mad debate skillz. When they've done anything but.
> 
> It's transparent, and they've even admitted as much on the other site. Not too honorable for someone who's one of the group's best-respected posters.


I'm calling you a liar to your face, (or avatar), and would like an apology.

You are making crap up about me deliberately, it's pure fiction, and you look like a fool doing it.

Anyone here is welcome to check my 2 or 3 posts at the other forum to see that you are a liar.


----------



## MrJayremmie

Someone like Kristic All Star is how a moderator or anyone else in authority should act. He does it with reason and respect, and doesn't back away from a confrontation/arguement, but knows that he is being looked upon differently because of his title. 

"with great powers, come great responsibility" - Spider man. LOL!


----------



## jwhoops11

Zybot said:


> Hey jwhoops -- i remember you from ESPN. Is that where you have been posting?


Actaully I haven't really posted much the last few years, but do read this site daily. I remember you to Zybot, and Gramps, Maris, Kiss (Go Time), and all the other guys who posted on ESPN.

I miss the community feel you get from the message boards, and think I might start posting more again, unfortunately it seems like I might be a few days to late, to get involved in all the action


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## Ed O

MrJayremmie said:


> Someone like Kristic All Star is how a moderator or anyone else in authority should act. He does it with reason and respect, and doesn't back away from a confrontation/arguement, but knows that he is being looked upon differently because of his title.


Yes. Every time I've seen the Blue guys post, I've known something reasonable was coming. Or at least intentionally funny.

Ed O.


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## Ed O

Cinco de Mayo said:


> The level of thick-headedness is really pretty astounding.


So much irony.

Ed O.


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## blue32

wow ive been gone and return to a **** storm....

So whats this new site all about?


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## DaRizzle

blue32 said:


> So whats this new site all about?


That my friend is a dangerous question you ask there....Me no touchy


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## Krstic All-Star

Ed O said:


> Yes. Every time I've seen the Blue guys post, I've known something reasonable was coming. Or at least intentionally funny.
> 
> Ed O.


I'd try to be reasonably funny, but it just doesn't work...


----------



## talman

Ed O said:


> Yes. Every time I've seen the Blue guys post, I've known something reasonable was coming. Or at least intentionally funny.
> 
> Ed O.


++

I've been around a long time (with Ed O, ABM and others) but never post much and while I am sad to see some posters go I'm more upset about the lack of civility among posters. It seems some people enjoy thrashing others for their pov or opinion. I've never understood why someone can look at a thread or post, read the topic, decide its lame or whatnot and then take the time to reply to let someone know that what they said was stupid or moronic. It's possible to respond respectfully and without attacking but that ability seems to be lost among a larger pecentage of posters. Why not just ignore it and let it fall past the front page into VBB history?

Perhaps I'm just getting too old.... :biggrin:


----------



## Floods

Cinco de Mayo said:


> The level of thick-headedness is really pretty astounding. WHADDYA MEAN I'M NOT ALLOWED TO STAGE AN EXODUS TO A COMPETING MESSAGE BOARD? IF I POST A YOUTUBE LINK, IS THAT SPAM NOW? THESE RULES ARE SO CONFUSING! I mean...really? That nearly every "outsider" to the Blazers board is defending the staff throughout this whole ordeal is pretty telling.


As a regular (and a mod) on s2, Its really helped the basketball discussion there. I was getting really sick of that NeTS monopoly they had going. :clap:


----------



## sa1177

Zybot said:


> Sa -- that is not exactly ture. Basel said that he originally banned maxiep for creating a thread about Kobe and rape which in Basel's words was "an obvious attempt to get under my skin." It wasn't for promoting another site. Many were upset about maxiep getting banned -- ABM told certain posters where they could find maxiep and promoted the other site. ABM was then banned and that is what sparked the migration.


Interesting to hear, I had not heard that. Really been away quite a bit lately with family issues. Thanks for filling me in.


----------



## The Sebastian Express

> If you were the Admin of a message board, would you honestly be okay with it if a member of your board was PMing a ton of other members, trying to get them to leave your site?


I think this is one of the most interesting and insightful posts to this whole mess because it really gives everyone a clear indication of your mindset. 

Let us compare this to a restaurant again as it has been done many times in this thread. If I am the manager of a long-standing and generally respected restaurant that just happens to be across the street from a brand-new restaurant - I'm not worried. I'm not worried if they put up fliers all over the neighborhood, and I'm not worried if they hand out fliers to people walking down the street to my restaurant. If I am a good manager, if I have good owners, and I have good employees then my customers will not leave. If I (and the rest of the restaurant staff) provide quality service in both the product and customer service then my customers are not going to leave generally. Perhaps a few new ones, but not the old customers who have been here for many years and are loyal (and that is who you guys are losing right now). If the old customers, however, start to leave to this new restaurant then I become alarmed and upset - not at them or the competing restaurant, but at myself, my employees, and my owners. I immediately try to find out why these long-standing customers are leaving. What am I doing wrong? What is my staff doing wrong?

And most importantly - how can I fix it?

None of that seems to be happening here (except for Krstic All Star who seems to understand how to not make the mob even more angry), and you actually have two moderators (one more than the other) acting with the same immaturity that you decry you're better off without.

You seem to want to blame a select few posters, but you are losing many, many people from the Blazers board right now. If you can get that many old-timers from this board to leave then you must ask yourself what is happening. What is the problem? Not to stop any one from the Blazer board in particular from leaving, but to stop the problem (issues with the mods - not just the Blazers mods) from expanding further to the rest of your board. Because if you do not stop the problem (and if you clear your head long enough and look around objectively you will see some of the non-Blazer mods in this thread are part of the problem) it will start going to other sub-forums on this board. What happens when you start getting a mass exodus from another one of the bigger sub-forums because you did not fix the problem before it spread?

Because it will spread if you do not fix it. Maybe not today, this week, or even in the next six months. But one day it will, and your refusal to understand the whole problem and stop laying blame on a select few Blazers posters will cause many issues for you down the line.

Also having unwritten rules in a TOS is a horrible idea. A company should always have clear rules in a TOS or a EULA no matter what the circumstance; if you do not you will only drive away future potential customers when they see you enforce rules they never even read about.


----------



## Urine

What the hell I thought PMs were supposed to be private? So why would an admin even know what someone says or does in their pms? I'm starting to not like this community too much. It seems like a lot of people have left and this place sucks.


----------



## Krstic All-Star

Urine said:


> What the hell I thought PMs were supposed to be private? So why would an admin even know what someone says or does in their pms? I'm starting to not like this community too much. It seems like a lot of people have left and this place sucks.


Still trying to cause trouble? :nonono:

You are aware, I hope, that even your IP-masking program isn't perfect, right? By all means, keep up the charade of being a new poster, though by this point you're not fooling anyone.


----------



## sa1177

Cinco de Mayo said:


> You should probably clarify or restate this. They're on an "ultra-literal" kick as of late.


Sure...

Its fine to post links to other sites even competing sites if they pertain to the specific thread. Its not ok to do this if that thread or post is one which encourages others go elsewhere. We dont allow the SPAM of any service or product here. (other then the wonderful ads :biggrin


----------



## Zybot

sa1177 said:


> Interesting to hear, I had not heard that. Really been away quite a bit lately with family issues. Thanks for filling me in.


Basel's comment above is where I pulled that info. I asked him why maxiep was banned and the above comment is the one that he was forwarding to people. Didn't think I was falsely spreading a rumor about why maxiep was banned, but maybe his comment is up to interpretation. I didn't get the ABM pm -- so not exactly sure what that said.


----------



## STOMP

talman said:


> ++
> 
> I've been around a long time (with Ed O, ABM and others) but never post much and while I am sad to see some posters go I'm more upset about the lack of civility among posters.


:cheers:

STOMP


----------



## It's_GO_Time

Urine said:


> What the hell I thought PMs were supposed to be private? So why would an admin even know what someone says or does in their pms? I'm starting to not like this community too much. It seems like a lot of people have left and this place sucks.


Alright, I'll be the village idiot . . . who is he?


----------



## Oldmangrouch

It's_GO_Time said:


> Alright, I'll be the village idiot . . . who is he?


Someone who would rather be part of the problem than part of the solution?

It's time for everyone to stop pissing and moaning about who was right or wrong. IT NO LONGER MATTERS! Time to start fixing the problem.


----------



## Urine

Krstic All Star said:


> Still trying to cause trouble? :nonono:
> 
> You are aware, I hope, that even your IP-masking program isn't perfect, right? By all means, keep up the charade of being a new poster, though by this point you're not fooling anyone.


You know what is funny about what you are saying is that I really am a new poster and have no idea what you are talking about.


----------



## Urine

I'll be a little more specific so that you know I am telling the truth. 

This honestly and truly is my first time EVER registering on this site. However I do know a lot of the people who recently left this site, and they talk so much crap about this place that I registered out of curiousity. I didn't really plan on staying so I just made up a funny name, sig, etc to mess around. 

Although I find that this place isn't half bad, so I'll try to post more seriously from now on. It's hard to tell online that someone isn't lying, but this really is my first time on this site.


----------



## BlayZa

logging in from work, and WHOA at the amount of ads here if you arent logged in..... 'write your name in glitter' ?! WTF Sparkly cursors... not sure how these things relate basketball audience but dayum, colour me surprised at the volume of it.....

there have been some fantastic posts in this thread on the state of the Blazer Nation here at BBB but i havent really seen to much pro-action in response to the vibe. 

sadly enough its slipped into more finger pointing and buck passing than actually working towards a solution. my feelings is the boat has sailed on trying to do some effective damage control and the heart of the posting community has already spoken with their fingers. 

my feeling from reading everything that has gone on was that there seemed to be a hard line drawn on admin etc vs posters and the posters have backed up their own.

for better or worse, this is where we are at.


----------



## rocketeer

BlayZa said:


> sadly enough its slipped into more finger pointing and buck passing than actually working towards a solution. my feelings is the boat has sailed on trying to do some effective damage control and the heart of the posting community has already spoken with their fingers.


really? the off topic forum is open and political discussion is again allowed there and stepping razor has been added as a new mod to help lighten the load on the other mods.

it would appear to me that the blazers fans have gotten what they wanted in terms of the forum other than the few whose actions determined that they were banned.


----------



## BlayZa

i guess what im saying is that the response to the bannings etc by the posters was much quicker than the response by the board admin. posters are notoriously fickle and this community isn't exempt from that, we've been through numerous boards prior to this one and wherever we are at always seems to be at risk of being the next Fanhome etc 

it also speaks volumes of the influence some of the posters have on the community here, ABM etc is a well respected member and many of the people have left in support of his situation. like i said in a prior post, the location doesnt really matter... at the end of the day we go where the best discussion is - and at the moment it seems like people are still dual-foruming etc but all the posting about ACTUAL blazer ball/news seems to be happening on S2.

check out both boards and see who is posting what where, seems pretty obvious where the activity is....


----------



## MARIS61

Krstic All Star said:


> Still trying to cause trouble? :nonono:
> 
> You are aware, I hope, that even your IP-masking program isn't perfect, right? By all means, keep up the charade of being a new poster, though by this point you're not fooling anyone.


Paranoid we are.


----------



## Minstrel

rocketeer said:


> really? the off topic forum is open and political discussion is again allowed there and stepping razor has been added as a new mod to help lighten the load on the other mods.
> 
> it would appear to me that the blazers fans have gotten what they wanted in terms of the forum


IMO, though, it was never really about that. That is what started it, but the damage was done the night it happened and the following days. Users felt that the decision to end political debates was arbitrary and they were given no ability to talk about the decision publicly until later (with "PM an admin if you have concerns" as the form response). 

Then, admin (I use that to encapsulate moderators, community moderators and big-A Administrators) felt the users were complaining over nothing, users felt the admin was mocking and dismissive, some users said "We are outraged and will go elsewhere if that's how you feel," admin said "Feel free to go," and, over a week's time, almost all the long-time regulars have.

I'm not attempting to apportion blame. Had I been in control of all the people on either side of the issue, things would have gone differently. I wasn't, and I basically tried to stay out of it. Both sides had a reasonable proposition: 

Admin's was, "This is how we do things, and if you want to post here, accept it." 

The user base's (at least the part the left) was, "We prefer the way things are done on another site, so we'll post there."

Both are acceptable propositions, and hopefully everyone will end up content with the result. I don't think there's any need, at this point, for acrimony. I don't think anyone's been done wrong and anyone needs to be blasted. Admins weren't fascist and users weren't whiny. There was just a dispute, and it's been resolved in a very capitalistic manner.


----------



## rocketeer

Minstrel said:


> IMO, though, it was never really about that. That is what started it, but the damage was done the night it happened and the following days. Users felt that the decision to end political debates was arbitrary and they were given no ability to talk about the decision publicly until later (with "PM an admin if you have concerns" as the form response).
> 
> Then, admin (I use that to encapsulate moderators, community moderators and big-A Administrators) felt the users were complaining over nothing, users felt the admin was mocking and dismissive, some users said "We are outraged and will go elsewhere if that's how you feel," admin said "Feel free to go," and, over a week's time, almost all the long-time regulars have.
> 
> I'm not attempting to apportion blame. Had I been in control of all the people on either side of the issue, things would have gone differently. I wasn't, and I basically tried to stay out of it. Both sides had a reasonable proposition:
> 
> Admin's was, "This is how we do things, and if you want to post here, accept it."
> 
> The user base's (at least the part the left) was, "We prefer the way things are done on another site, so we'll post there."
> 
> Both are acceptable propositions, and hopefully everyone will end up content with the result. I don't think there's any need, at this point, for acrimony. I don't think anyone's been done wrong and anyone needs to be blasted. Admins weren't fascist and users weren't whiny. There was just a dispute, and it's been resolved in a very capitalistic manner.


that is not really an accurate representation of how the events actually occurred though you(and many other blazers fans) don't seem to care and have decided to remember things as you wish.

a request to pm admins with problems and suggests and attempts to find new mods and reopening the off topic forum and beginning to allow political discussion again once they found a new mod all seem like the mods/admins/whoever were not just saying "This is how we do things, and if you want to post here, accept it," but were attempting to work towards a solution to fix the situation.


----------



## TLo

rocketeer said:


> that is not really an accurate representation of how the events actually occurred though you(and many other blazers fans) don't seem to care and have decided to remember things as you wish.
> 
> a request to pm admins with problems and suggests and attempts to find new mods and reopening the off topic forum and beginning to allow political discussion again once they found a new mod all seem like the mods/admins/whoever were not just saying "This is how we do things, and if you want to post here, accept it," but were attempting to work towards a solution to fix the situation.


I might attempt to respond to your post if I could understand it.


----------



## Minstrel

rocketeer said:


> that is not really an accurate representation of how the events actually occurred though you(and many other blazers fans) don't seem to care and have decided to remember things as you wish.


Your description is not really an accurate representation of how the events actually occurred though you (and several other admin-sympathetic users) don't seem to care and have decided to remember things as you wish.



> a request to pm admins with problems and suggests and attempts to find new mods and reopening the off topic forum and beginning to allow political discussion again once they found a new mod all seem like the mods/admins/whoever were not just saying "This is how we do things, and if you want to post here, accept it," but were attempting to work towards a solution to fix the situation.


I'm sorry, you're wrong. That isn't how it began. That came later. The first night was entirely Basel59 closing every thread meant to discuss the issue and saying "PM all concerns to the admin." Which is exactly what I said. All the attempts to "work towards a solution" came later after there was a major outcry.

I don't deny that there was an attempt towards damage control later, and I don't deny that Blazers fans were extremely aggressive from the start. I don't think you or admin ever understood how vexing it was to have a sudden policy change made, with no warning, and then no willingness to talk about it until the following day.

I don't think the admins were fascist. I think the whole process was bungled on the admin side, the Portland fans who were aggrieved were not tolerant and patient, and it'e led to a huge amount of acrimony. I think blame lies on both sides, your attempts to paint it as entirely the fault of "many Blazers fans" nonwithstanding.

The major philosophical difference was really not authoritarianism. It's the question of whether there should be communities-within-communities allowed, that can discuss a broad range of topics. The admin clearly took the stand, _originally_, that this was not possible and if people wanted to talk politics, they had to go talk about it in the "appointed area." From your posts at the time, you agree with this position, that such self-sufficient communities shouldn't be allowed. Most of the long-term regulars want such a thing.

As the week wore on after the incident, the admin has become more tolerant of the idea of communities-within-communities. But the damage was done in the first few days when the notion was dismissed and, in the case of a few posters on the administration side, mocked.

I never had a horse in the race. I still don't. On this issue, I am entirely a follower. I want to talk with the group of people I know and like. If they are mostly here, I'd participate here. If they are mostly on the other forum, I'll participate there. I have no ill will to this site and if everyone moved back here, I would too. I didn't encourage a move and wouldn't encourage one back. So, it's not like anything I say is from an agenda. It is entirely how I did see it. As with any opinion, I may be wrong, but it is not due to "wanting" to remember things a certain way.

As such, I'm not going to argue about this. I've offered my perspective of what has happened, and suggested (as an opinion) that further acrimony and blame isn't necessary, on either side. You and others can make of it what you will.


----------



## Krstic All-Star

Minstrel, in case it's been lost in the ruckus, would you care to know the numbers of users who bothered to PM me? The answer is ONE.

So, rather than having constructive input from concerned posters, I had to wade through extremely contentious threads in order to piece things together and plan accordingly. Without understanding that, I'm afraid that comments about imputing 'bungling' to the Admin side is completely ridiculous, and rather insulting.


----------



## rocketeer

Minstrel said:


> I'm sorry, you're wrong. That isn't how it began. That came later. The first night was entirely Basel59 closing every thread meant to discuss the issue and saying "PM all concerns to the admin." Which is exactly what I said. All the attempts to "work towards a solution" came later after there was a major outcry.


if you say so.

you said the damage was done "the night it happened and the following days." the night it happened, users were told to pm concerns to admins. the next day threads were open for extended periods of time asking for suggestions. two days later you have basel's thread offering an idea and asking for suggestions. a few days later you have him pming someone to become a mod so political discussion can occur again and you have him asking for mod nominations. sorry i didn't put a timeline in my previous post. but it sure seems to me like basel especially was trying to work for a solution early on and all he did was get attacked for it.

and of course all the attempts of a solution came after an outcry. if there was no outcry and the blazers posters simply would have moved to the political forum to talk politics, there would have been nothing to solve(and i'm not saying it's unreasonable that the blazers fans wanted to keep things as they were. just that of course attempted solutions didn't happen until after there was an outcry. who needs solutions when there isn't a problem?).


----------



## Minstrel

Krstic All Star said:


> Minstrel, in case it's been lost in the ruckus, would you care to know the numbers of users who bothered to PM me? The answer is ONE.


I'm not sure that that's relevant. "PM concerns to admin" is a dismissal, in terms of customer service. It says, "We're not going to discuss it in open forum, but feel free to contact management."

If I had been upset by the change (I didn't care, personally), I wouln't have PM'd admin, either, when confronted by such stone-walling.



> So, rather than having constructive input from concerned posters, I had to wade through extremely contentious threads in order to piece things together and plan accordingly. Without understanding that, I'm afraid that comments about imputing 'bungling' to the Admin side is completely ridiculous, and rather insulting.


I do understand that. I think you (and by "you," I mean admin in general) would have gotten constructive and civil feedback had _one single_ thread been allowed the night of the completely out-of-nowhere change. If every thread started to discuss it hadn't been shut down with "No threads, PM admin with concerns," I think things would have gone much more quietly and smoothly for both sides.

So, I absolutely stand by my evaluation that it was "bungled." It wasn't malicious, but it was handled poorly. I don't mean to be insulting, simply my honest appraisal. You have a right to a differing appraisal. Also, this evaluation is about the several days immediately following the Night Of Moved Threads. Not what happened afterward, when cooler heads prevailed. IMO, the main damage happened in those first few days.


----------



## rocketeer

Minstrel said:


> I'm not sure that that's relevant. "PM concerns to admin" is a dismissal, in terms of customer service. It says, "We're not going to discuss it in open forum, but feel free to contact management."
> 
> If I had been upset by the chance (I didn't care, personally), I wouln't have PM'd admin, either, when confronted by such stone-walling.


or it means that the person telling others to pm concerns to an admin doesn't have the authority to make decisions on the matter and is just doing what they had been told.


----------



## Basel

Minstrel said:


> I do understand that. I think you (and by "you," I mean admin in general) would have gotten constructive and civil feedback had _one single_ thread been allowed the night of the completely out-of-nowhere change.


There WAS a thread discussing it that got out of hand that Dan asked me to close. That's when I told posters to PM the Admins for any other concerns. I didn't just start locking/deleting threads for the hell of it.


----------



## Minstrel

rocketeer said:


> or it means that the person telling others to pm concerns to an admin doesn't have the authority to make decisions on the matter and is just doing what they had been told.


An open thread isn't a decision. Closing every thread is a decision. No one was asking Basel59 to make a policy decision. As a CM, he certainly had the leeway to allow one thread for discussion about policy in that forum.


----------



## Minstrel

Basel57 said:


> There WAS a thread discussing it that got out of hand that Dan asked me to close. That's when I told posters to PM the Admins for any other concerns. I didn't just start locking/deleting threads for the hell of it.


What's your point? I'm saying it was a poor decision, in my opinion, and jacked up the hostility a great deal, again in my opinion. Had the thread been left open, things would have simmered down. I never said you did it "for the hell of it."


----------



## Basel

Minstrel said:


> What's your point? I'm saying it was a poor decision, in my opinion, and jacked up the hostility a great deal, again in my opinion. Had the thread been left open, things would have simmered down. I never said you did it "for the hell of it."


My point is that you said were trying to imply that we didn't allow a thread to have any discussion about what was going on, when really, we did. 

I was asked to close it and tell the members that if they had any more concerns to PM the admins, and asked them politely to not create any more threads or they would be deleted. Nobody listened, so I deleted them.

Anyway, this entire thing has already gotten really, really old. I'm done with it. Everyone has their opinion on what happened and who was right and wrong; doesn't seem like that's going to change much.


----------



## HispanicCausinPanic

If a handful of certain non-Blazer guys like i stated before would just stop posting in here, this would end! You guys weren't ever on here until 2 weeks ago. Just go away and bull**** will stop!


----------



## rocketeer

HispanicCausinPanic said:


> If a handful of certain non-Blazer guys like i stated before would just stop posting in here, this would end! You guys weren't ever on here until 2 weeks ago. Just go away and bull**** will stop!


i've been here for a while.


----------



## Krstic All-Star

Minstrel said:


> I'm not sure that that's relevant. "PM concerns to admin" is a dismissal, in terms of customer service. It says, "We're not going to discuss it in open forum, but feel free to contact management."
> 
> If I had been upset by the change (I didn't care, personally), I wouln't have PM'd admin, either, when confronted by such stone-walling.
> 
> 
> 
> I do understand that. I think you (and by "you," I mean admin in general) would have gotten constructive and civil feedback had ONE SINGLE thread been allowed the night of the completely out-of-nowhere change. If every thread started to discuss it hadn't been shut down with "No threads, PM admin with concerns," I think things would have gone much more quietly and smoothly for both sides.
> 
> So, I absolutely stand by my evaluation that it was "bungled." It wasn't malicious, but it was handled poorly. Also, this evaluation is about the several days immediately following the Night Of Moved Threads. Not what happened afterward, when cooler heads prevailed. IMO, the main damage happened in those first few days.


I understand where you're coming from, but there remain two problems with that construction. The first is that when everything hit, the confusion wasn't just on the posters' side. As I already mentioned, I myself wasn't able to log in for some reason until later. But instead of people even assuming that confusion rather than animosity was behind events, the place went nuts. The second is that I've made it a point to be accessible via PM at all times - something that made a difference, I believe, a year ago when there was some upheaval at the top. Whatever the impression may be regarding the worth of PMing an Admin, the fact is that I've personally made it a key part of what I do here, and don't think that I'm the only one to have done so. In fact, had I received PMs from posters that pointed to a single issue, I would have responded to each individually, and then acted upon things. Instead - and this is not apportioning blame - I was met with a number of disruptive threads, many of which were deliberately so. 

And the thing of it is that posts like yours are not the problem - or even a problem - as far as I'm concerned. Indeed, if up-front critical threads were the majority of posts when things like this happen, I wouldn't bother to ask posters to PM me. But the reality is all too often far different, with threads become repositories for various gripes - some real and some imagined. And on top of it all, instead of being able to respond directly to clear issues, I have to expend time that I really don't have wading through vitriolic threads trying to identify and respond to the constructive ones. Meanwhile, as I'm trying to piece things together, people get further aggravated, in some cases egged on by a thankfully small minority of posters. 

Now, I've put this in the first-person because it's been my direct experience, but the part about PMs and threads getting overrun is something everyone has had to deal with, both now and before this. But dwelling on that would be as pointless and counterproductive as trying to assign blame on staff after the fact. 

The key point is that a number of factors all combined at once to lead us here. And we're still trying to move the discussion to a ground where people can explain their issues and be responded to without a haze of anger settling down. _That_ is the true tragedy of this affair right now.


----------



## Basel

HispanicCausinPanic said:


> If a handful of certain non-Blazer guys like i stated before would just stop posting in here, this would end! You guys weren't ever on here until 2 weeks ago. Just go away and bull**** will stop!


Actually, I was on here; I was posting Blazers news before anything ever happened.


----------



## Minstrel

Basel57 said:


> My point is that you said were trying to imply that we didn't allow a thread to have any discussion about what was going on, when really, we did.


Uh, if you close it, it doesn't count.



> I was asked to close it


Dan is a moderator. You are a community moderator. You weren't forced to, Dan doesn't command your actions.

If you were told to by an Administrator, all that means is that the mistake was not made by you, but by someone higher up. I'm still not seeing why you feel I am misrepresenting anything. What I consider to be a mistake (not allowing a venue for public discussion on the sudden change in policy) was made. By someone. Either you or someone higher up.


----------



## Basel

I know I wasn't forced to; but since he's the Mod of the Blazers forum and wanted it closed, I went ahead and closed it. Why he didn't close it himself, I don't know. Maybe it would have made him look worse to everyone as they were already on his ***. So I went ahead and did it. Never realized it would ever get to this, though.


----------



## HispanicCausinPanic

Well you guys may have been here, but you have to admit, you constantly arguing with these guys is not helping at all. You guys keep talking about the rules are this and that. Well I'm sure the rules don't say it's OK to keep stirring up ****! Let it go. Just go back to your forums and leave these guys alone. I promise if you stop posting on here, this will all end tomorrow!


----------



## rocketeer

HispanicCausinPanic said:


> Well you guys may have been here, but you have to admit, you constantly arguing with these guys is not helping at all. You guys keep talking about the rules are this and that. Well I'm sure the rules don't say it's OK to keep stirring up ****! Let it go. Just go back to your forums and leave these guys alone. I promise if you stop posting on here, this will all end tomorrow!


if someone posts something that i want to respond to, i will respond to it.


----------



## Minstrel

Krstic All Star said:


> I understand where you're coming from, but there remain two problems with that construction. The first is that when everything hit, the confusion wasn't just on the posters' side. As I already mentioned, I myself wasn't able to log in for some reason until later. But instead of people even assuming that confusion rather than animosity was behind events, the place went nuts. The second is that I've made it a point to be accessible via PM at all times - something that made a difference, I believe, a year ago when there was some upheaval at the top. Whatever the impression may be regarding the worth of PMing an Admin, the fact is that I've personally made it a key part of what I do here, and don't think that I'm the only one to have done so. In fact, had I received PMs from posters that pointed to a single issue, I would have responded to each individually, and then acted upon things. Instead - and this is not apportioning blame - I was met with a number of disruptive threads, many of which were deliberately so.
> 
> And the thing of it is that posts like yours are not the problem - or even a problem - as far as I'm concerned. Indeed, if up-front critical threads were the majority of posts when things like this happen, I wouldn't bother to ask posters to PM me. But the reality is all too often far different, with threads become repositories for various gripes - some real and some imagined. And on top of it all, instead of being able to respond directly to clear issues, I have to expend time that I really don't have wading through vitriolic threads trying to identify and respond to the constructive ones. Meanwhile, as I'm trying to piece things together, people get further aggravated, in some cases egged on by a thankfully small minority of posters.
> 
> Now, I've put this in the first-person because it's been my direct experience, but the part about PMs and threads getting overrun is something everyone has had to deal with, both now and before this. But dwelling on that would be as pointless and counterproductive as trying to assign blame on staff after the fact.
> 
> The key point is that a number of factors all combined at once to lead us here. And we're still trying to move the discussion to a ground where people can explain their issues and be responded to without a haze of anger settling down. _That_ is the true tragedy of this affair right now.


I understand where you are coming from, as well. I don't consider "Administration" to be monolithic and I don't paint everyone with the same brush. My main point is that, in my opinion, it wasn't handled well. Who is to blame for that is really not that important. Arguably, no one is. You make an interesting point when you say that users didn't properly consider that it all happened so fast that maybe admin were caught by confusion as well. That's true...but consider that that's largely a problem of "adminstration" making. The change in policy didn't need to be so sudden.

I realize that one moderator chose to do it, but administrators could have done something to make it easier on everyone while dealing with their confusion: reversed that moderator's actions temporarily while it was slowly discussed, left one thread open while it was slowly discussed, etc. They could have slowed the process down in a non-authoritarian way. In my opinion, the worst "slow it down" decision was made...shut down conversation until it was sorted out. Maybe it was just bad luck...I'm perfectly willing to leave it as "no one's fault."


----------



## DaRizzle

Then lets all agree to lock this thread and not start a new one...lol


----------



## Krstic All-Star

I'd love to leave it at 'no one's fault' as well.


----------



## HispanicCausinPanic

rocketeer said:


> if someone posts something that i want to respond to, i will respond to it.


And with that attitude, this **** will never stop!


----------



## rocketeer

HispanicCausinPanic said:


> And with that attitude, this **** will never stop!


no, i guess it won't.


----------



## drexlersdad

some of the blazer fans left and then it was just an exodus. i guess you could call us lemmings, but instead of us dying, we all just found a better product. im sure they will want to get rich someday too, and get a ton of ads, or maybe verticalscope will buy them there's no xanadu, dont get me wrong. but people getting banned for life, well we just cant have that. i still wanna get abm's wacky deal o' the day. i still wanna read/join crazy arguments in the ot board.

i can see where some of the mods are coming from as well. yeah they get held to a higher standard, but if you cant post what you want to post, why would you even bother being a mod? mods/admins should be allowed to speak their mind in any forum they please. 

and if people dont like it they should be allowed to retort.

i know mods dont care, but 19/87 members are in the blazers forum right now. that would have probably been 40//110 a week ago.

im not sure verticalscope cares either though.


----------



## HispanicCausinPanic

We need to make up our mind on where we are all going to be. 17 members on here right now. Over on the new site there is 35 members. Has the great migration begun?


----------



## rocketeer

HispanicCausinPanic said:


> We need to make up our mind on where we are all going to be. 17 members on here right now. Over on the new site there is 35 members. Has the great migration begun?


numbers when i checked were 21 here(with 51 guests). 19 there(with a number of guests that i can't remember that was much smaller). has the great return begun?


----------



## mook

Minstrel said:


> The major philosophical difference was really not authoritarianism. It's the question of whether there should be communities-within-communities allowed, that can discuss a broad range of topics. The admin clearly took the stand, _originally_, that this was not possible and if people wanted to talk politics, they had to go talk about it in the "appointed area." From your posts at the time, you agree with this position, that such self-sufficient communities shouldn't be allowed. Most of the long-term regulars want such a thing.


This is really the crux of the whole issue. I've never liked posting over on the Political Economy board, although it was never enough of an issue to make me just pick up and leave. And I've never really liked mods who are non-Blazer regulars telling me what I can and can't post. And I've never understood why I can't post links to competing forums. 

I've never really ventured out of the Blazer community, and I don't really want to. Admins and Community Moderators may view this as a personal failing on my part, but they can't really hold it against me if I (and many of the other regulars) go some place where we can get things run the way we want. 

I'm glad to see that things seem to be loosening up around here (hey, this thread wasn't locked!) but it's just a little too late. I've gone to the new place and they've got a few other bells and whistles I like (see my earlier technical post). 

I don't really see how anyone can argue with Minstrel that the initial handling of this issue was bungled. So Krstic isn't able to log on to bring sanity--well, shouldn't there be some basic policies in place to prevent this kind of thing from happening? Shouldn't it be a really big no-no to ever lock a thread that is complaining about some aspect about the site? 

I own a small internet business, and I've had bigger disasters that have cost me a lot more money than you've lost here. (A lot of it is managed through our customer service bulletin board.) One thing I never did was tell my customers, "Shut up for now. We'll get a policy together, but if you really want you can email this guy. Otherwise I'll delete everything you say." (Our board has never deleted a single critical thread about our company, I'm proud to say.) 

I just can't imagine running my business like that. Not for one day. Not for one hour. Not on the internet, where things happen so quickly. That somebody in a community moderator position thought that this was acceptable speaks to a flaw in your policies, IMO, and Minstrel accurately described the situation as "bungled". I'm not saying Krstic or the CM or whoever is at fault. That's for you to figure out. I'm just saying that mistakes like this don't happen if you have strong customer service-focused policies in place.


----------



## mook

rocketeer said:


> numbers when i checked were 21 here(with 51 guests). 19 there(with a number of guests that i can't remember that was much smaller). has the great return begun?


fwiw-- I've popped in here several times today to read this thread, just because I find the whole mess fascinating (and a learning moment for me on how not to manage my own company). But I'm really no more a part of this board anymore than a rubbernecker is part of a train wreck. 

That could always change, I suppose. Like Minstrel, I'm mostly a herd follower. I just happen to like the taste of the grass in the new field right now. (insert lame Portland pot smoker joke here)


----------



## Hector

DaRizzle said:


> Then lets all agree to lock this thread and not start a new one...lol


They already locked threads discussing this, and that authoritarianism is what caused the herd to stomp off. Keeping this thread (and any future one like it) open is exactly what is needed...Although this thread is evolving a whitewashed history.

For example, we are told that several moderators made the strategic command decision to commit major surgery on the board, and amputate the political posts. Of the several mods on duty immediately following the shocking announcement, it was the brand new one, Dan, who decided to stop all posting about the subject (similar to not allowing anyone to talk about Hurricane Ike when it's raging outside your door). Next, the brand new mod (who is now banned for unknown reasons), not any other of the several mods on duty, told Basel to cut off the threads discussing it, and the senior Basel felt compelled to follow the rookie's radical request without hesitation. So it's the fault of the fall guy who can't defend himself because he's banned.


----------



## Basel

Hector said:


> They already locked threads discussing this, and that authoritarianism is what caused the herd to stomp off. Keeping this thread (and any future one like it) open is exactly what is needed...Although this thread is evolving a whitewashed history.
> 
> For example, we are told that several moderators made the strategic command decision to commit major surgery on the board, and amputate the political posts. Of the several mods on duty immediately following the shocking announcement, it was the brand new one, Dan, who decided to stop all posting about the subject (similar to not allowing anyone to talk about Hurricane Ike when it's raging outside your door). Next, the brand new mod (who is now banned for unknown reasons), not any other of the several mods on duty, told Basel to cut off the threads discussing it, and the senior Basel felt compelled to follow the rookie's radical request without hesitation. So it's the fault of the fall guy who can't defend himself because he's banned.


What? What brand new mod was banned? Dan was the one who told me to close the thread, and I don't think he's a "rookie" by any means.


----------



## Hector

Dan had just been made a moderator a couple of weeks before. Maybe this was his second go-around as a mod, I don't know, but still, he was the new guy, and the decisions now attributed to him were disproportionate to his newness. Was the decision for the OT board to go nonpolitical a group decison by the mods made well in advance? Or was it a reaction to Dan's overwork in policing it? Since you had just added a new mod (Dan) I would think the workload would have decreased, not increased, although as I have previously noted, the OT board had recently increased in volume of posts.

Also, why is he banned?


----------



## Hector

Strange. We have a banned poster moderating tonight.

In the upper-right corner where moderators are listed, Dan's name appears. Yet in the OT board's thread titled "aerial hunting," Dan posted a few days ago, and under his name it now says "banned member."


----------



## rocketeer

i'm pretty sure that under dan's name it has said banned member for a while. i'm pretty sure supporting members can or at least used to have the option of changing that and that dan must have thought putting "banned member" there was clever. but to my knowledge he is not actually banned.


----------



## Hector

rocketeer said:


> i'm pretty sure that under dan's name it has said banned member for a while. i'm pretty sure supporting members can or at least used to have the option of changing that and that dan must have thought putting "banned member" there was clever. but to my knowledge he is not actually banned.


Great...just great...Well, that changes all my posts on this thread's page 14. I think you're right because under maxiep's name, in "Banned Member" the word "Member" is capitalized, but under Dan's name, it isn't. Compare posts 1 & 2 in this thread:

http://www.basketballforum.com/portland-off-topic-forum/410704-msnbc-takes-step-away-brink.html

Hokay, Dan, your little joke made me post away in your favor...I do notice, though, that Dan is listed in the corner as a moderator, yet his face icon next to his posts shows he's absent tonight from the board. He hasn't posted for a week.


----------



## Zybot

Hector said:


> Great...just great...Well, that changes all my posts on this thread's page 14. I think you're right because under maxiep's name, in "Banned Member" the word "Member" is capitalized, but under Dan's name, it isn't. Compare posts 1 & 2 in this thread:
> 
> http://www.basketballforum.com/portland-off-topic-forum/410704-msnbc-takes-step-away-brink.html
> 
> Hokay, Dan, your little joke made me post away in your favor...I do notice, though, that Dan is listed in the corner as a moderator, yet his face icon next to his posts shows he's absent tonight from the board. He hasn't posted for a week.


Rumor is he is posting as urine. :biggrin:


----------



## HispanicCausinPanic

Talked to Dan the other day and he said he's done here.


----------



## DaRizzle

Hector said:


> They already locked threads discussing this, and that authoritarianism is what caused the herd to stomp off. Keeping this thread (and any future one like it) open is exactly what is needed...Although this thread is evolving a whitewashed history.


So everyone realizes comments like this are the reason this is one big circle jerk. Nobody cares to read what was said before and subjects keep coming up that were already covered. *There is NOTHING more to discuss, all it is is the blame game now.* Who the **** cares anymore. Everything is back to the way it was minus 30 posters, **** happens. Done.

I think everybody and their mom has said what they thought on this thread. I dont think anybody is gonna be offended if it is locked so we dont have to hear anymore pointless ramblings! Yes I know "just dont click the thread" is possible too but I think EVERYONE would benifit from this being locked and not bring up a similar thread. :dancingpadlock:


----------



## HispanicCausinPanic

Nobody is going to lock a thread I started!


----------



## Krstic All-Star

How can I resist?  :banana:


----------



## Krstic All-Star

No, wait. That would mean I'm agreeing with DaRizzle, and we just _can't_ have that...

Sigh, might as well reopen it then.


----------



## Krstic All-Star

Shortest thread lock of all-time?


----------



## mook

DaRizzle said:


> I think everybody and their mom has said what they thought on this thread. I dont think anybody is gonna be offended if it is locked so we dont have to hear anymore pointless ramblings! Yes I know "just dont click the thread" is possible too but I think EVERYONE would benifit from this being locked and not bring up a similar thread. :dancingpadlock:


Meh, I've never been a big fan of locking threads because it "seems to have run its course." You never know when somebody might say something interesting or surprising. The best moderator on this board (or any other) is time. Let it die a natural death.


----------



## Krstic All-Star

I'm just annoyed that I forgot to use the locked smiley...


----------



## DaRizzle

Cmon KAS your first instict was the right one...lock it


----------



## HispanicCausinPanic

DaRizzle said:


> Cmon KAS your first instict was the right one...lock it


GO BACK TO THE LAKERS FORUM BOY!

Speaking of, maybe I will crash that party, just like you've crashed ours!


----------



## Krstic All-Star

DaRizzle said:


> Cmon KAS your first instict was the right one...lock it


Actually, my first instinct was to periodically post random smileys...


----------



## DaRizzle

HispanicCausinPanic said:


> GO BACK TO THE LAKERS FORUM BOY!
> 
> Speaking of, maybe I will crash that party, just like you've crashed ours!


Welcome to the party pal!


----------



## Spud147

DaRizzle said:


> So everyone realizes comments like this are the reason this is one big circle jerk. Nobody cares to read what was said before and subjects keep coming up that were already covered. *There is NOTHING more to discuss, all it is is the blame game now.* Who the **** cares anymore. Everything is back to the way it was minus 30 posters, **** happens. Done.
> 
> I think everybody and their mom has said what they thought on this thread. I dont think anybody is gonna be offended if it is locked so we dont have to hear anymore pointless ramblings! Yes I know "just dont click the thread" is possible too but I think EVERYONE would benifit from this being locked and not bring up a similar thread. :dancingpadlock:


Now wait just a dang second before you lock this thread. I was out of town all week last week, missed the exodus, and haven't had a chance to weigh in on this yet. I admit this may be considered pointless rambling because I didn't read back through all those posts and don't intend to because it would take too long. But I just want to say that I'm going to be neutral, like Switzerland, because I don't know enough to give any insightful comments or opinions.

Oh, and, "peace2: 

There... now you can lock the thread.


----------



## Spud147

DaRizzle said:


> Welcome to the party pal!


Oh, and DaRizzle, while I do feel slightly uncomfortable fraternizing with a Laker fan I just have to comment on your signature. Now keep in mind that I'm a straight woman but, wow, that behind is a work of art. Monuments should be dedicated to it. Maybe not a Mt. Rushmore type monument but clearly qualified for some kind of a carved sign on a small hill. :biggrin:


----------



## Hector

Locking threads about this subject is exactly why people left. I assume the mods now know not to lock any threads on this topic. DaRizzle, you say there's nothing new to talk about, but how about this:



HispanicCausinPanic said:


> Talked to Dan the other day and he said he's done here.


Assuming that HCP isn't joking, I can't believe this. People left because they were mad at Dan for taking the politics out of the OT forum. Now, HE leaves? Did other mods pressure him out because anger was focussed on him? He sure wouldn't go to the new forum. That's the last place he'd be welcome.

Dan hasn't posted for about 10 days, so I'm close to believing you, but HCP, tell me you're joking!


----------



## DaRizzle

Spud147 said:


> Oh, and DaRizzle, while I do feel slightly uncomfortable fraternizing with a Laker fan I just have to comment on your signature. Now keep in mind that I'm a straight woman but, wow, that behind is a work of art. Monuments should be dedicated to it. Maybe not a Mt. Rushmore type monument but clearly qualified for some kind of a carved sign on a small hill. :biggrin:


Yup, I do have a pretty sweet backside. People want to be friends with my backside


----------



## Basel

Dan actually already let the Mods know that he's done posting; we didn't pressure him out.


----------



## mook

Hector said:


> People left because they were mad at Dan for taking the politics out of the OT forum. Now, HE leaves? Did other mods pressure him out because anger was focussed on him? * He sure wouldn't go to the new forum. That's the last place he'd be welcome*.
> 
> Dan hasn't posted for about 10 days, so I'm close to believing you, but HCP, tell me you're joking!


I certainly don't think you speak for everybody. Dan can be a little hot-headed at times, but he's widely liked by a lot of people on both forums. I'd certainly miss his contributions if he stopped posting about the Blazers, no matter what part he had in this whole thing. And I know I'm not alone, based on comments from the other board.


----------



## Urine

I'm starting to realize that the mods on this site actually do suck.

I'm fairly new here and I've already been accused of being a former member and using an IP masking program so that they wouldn't know who I was. What a great welcome. No wonder so many innocents are disgruntled over the naziesque way that this site is run.


----------



## hasoos

Urine said:


> I'm starting to realize that the mods on this site actually do suck.
> 
> I'm fairly new here and I've already been accused of being a former member and using an IP masking program so that they wouldn't know who I was. What a great welcome. No wonder so many innocents are disgruntled over the naziesque way that this site is run.



Well I guess you can always send them a sample of yourself to show them you are the real deal!:biggrin:


----------



## Urine

hasoos said:


> Well I guess you can always send them a sample of yourself to show them you are the real deal!:biggrin:


LOL, No they would find a way to accuse me of spam if I did that.

In all honesty I just think its silly that they seem to think that they knew who I was, when in actuality they were 100% wrong. Poor leadership.


----------



## Spud147

DaRizzle said:


> Yup, I do have a pretty sweet backside. People want to be friends with my backside


Oh come on... Everybody knows you Laker fan people just go to the doctor for plastic body parts if you don't like the ones you were born with. :devil2: 

P.S. What was the name of that doctor?


----------



## Stepping Razor

mook said:


> I certainly don't think you speak for everybody. Dan can be a little hot-headed at times, but he's widely liked by a lot of people on both forums. I'd certainly miss his contributions if he stopped posting about the Blazers, no matter what part he had in this whole thing. And I know I'm not alone, based on comments from the other board.


Seconded. Dan/Hap, if you're reading this, we want you back, wherever on the internets we may be. Whatever craziness went down last week, you'd be a big loss to the Blazer fan community.


----------



## DaRizzle

Spud147 said:


> Oh come on... Everybody knows you Laker fan people just go to the doctor for plastic body parts if you don't like the ones you were born with. :devil2:
> 
> P.S. What was the name of that doctor?


Oh Im sure somebody wants to be friends with your badonkadonk :biggrin:


----------



## zagsfan20

Cinco de Mayo said:


> I'm not mixing it up anymore than things normally are on this board. If Nate or MARIS' intentions were really genuine, they'd be getting fewer barbs. But the fact of the matter is that they're here only to stir the pot a bit more, keep the e-drama going and then high-fiving themselves on Sports2 about how they've really raked us over the coals and stuck it to the fascist mods with their mad debate skillz. When they've done anything but.
> 
> It's transparent, and they've even admitted as much on the other site. Not too honorable for someone who's one of the group's best-respected posters.
> 
> The level of thick-headedness is really pretty astounding. WHADDYA MEAN I'M NOT ALLOWED TO STAGE AN EXODUS TO A COMPETING MESSAGE BOARD? IF I POST A YOUTUBE LINK, IS THAT SPAM NOW? THESE RULES ARE SO CONFUSING! I mean...really? That nearly every "outsider" to the Blazers board is defending the staff throughout this whole ordeal is pretty telling.
> 
> No one is making anyone choose sides outside of these very simple guidelines: 1) follow the Terms of Service; and 2) if you're here to talk Blazers, feel free. If you're here to ***** and make a spectacle, go elsewhere. It's really easy.



Seems like the fact that everyone is switching forums is really getting to you.


----------



## sa1177

zagsfan20 said:


> Seems like the fact that everyone is switching forums is really getting to you.


The funny thing is, they arent. We lost some very good posters no doubt but only 10-12 of them. I regret losing every one of them and I do hope they all will return at some point but I hardly see this as the disaster its being made out to be. IMO we still got a strong forum and strong poster base.


----------



## Minstrel

Stepping Razor said:


> Seconded. Dan/Hap, if you're reading this, we want you back, wherever on the internets we may be. Whatever craziness went down last week, you'd be a big loss to the Blazer fan community.


Thirded. Dan knows I'd like him to continue posting. Most of the long-term regulars would, from what I can tell.


----------



## sa1177

Minstrel said:


> Thirded. Dan knows I'd like him to continue posting. Most of the long-term regulars would, from what I can tell.


I hope he comes back as well....I feel partly responsible for him leaving since I wasn't here to help with all that happened. Certainly miss his posting for sure.


----------



## R-Star

I've been sick, looks like I missed quite a lot in the last couple of days. What I dont get is, if you guys left, why the hell is there 16 pages? Dont like the board then leave, but why do you keep coming back to complain? Its pathetic.


----------



## zagsfan20

rocketeer said:


> numbers when i checked were 21 here(with 51 guests). 19 there(with a number of guests that i can't remember that was much smaller). has the great return begun?


You seem so concerned, yet your not a mod involved in all of this nor are you a Blazer fan. Do you have some kind of stock in Vertical Scope?


----------



## It's_GO_Time

R-Star said:


> I've been sick, looks like I missed quite a lot in the last couple of days. What I dont get is, if you guys left, why the hell is there 16 pages? Dont like the board then leave, but why do you keep coming back to complain? Its pathetic.


Well I thought that point has been beaten to death, but to spell it out again:

most posters are more concerned about actual posters than the URL site they ues to communicate to each other.

Personally I surf both boards because there are good posters on each board. I hope some day (probaly by season start) that the posters pick one board so many of us don't have to dual surf.

I am for the other board because on this board you have to deal with all this bull**** . . . like being called pathetic. But I will go wherever I can find the best takes on the Blazers.

Without getting into insults and to follow the theme of HCP. . . why do non-Blazer fans keep coming to this forum, it just causes uneeded tension.


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## R-Star

It's_GO_Time said:


> Well I thought that point has been beaten to death, but to spell it out again:
> 
> most posters are more concerned about actual posters than the URL site they ues to communicate to each other.
> 
> Personally I surf both boards because there are good posters on each board. I hope some day (probaly by season start) that the posters pick one board so many of us don't have to dual surf.
> 
> I am for the other board because on this board you have to deal with all this bull**** . . . like being called pathetic. But I will go wherever I can find the best takes on the Blazers.
> 
> Without getting into insults and to follow the theme of HCP. . . why do non-Blazer fans keep coming to this forum, it just causes uneeded tension.



It keeps being said that you're all fed up though, and that the majority has gone to the other board, so again, why the 17 pages? Why the complaints? If I didnt like this place, I would leave, simple as that. If you guys all hate it here, whats the problem? Go to the other board, simple as that. Or come back here and deal with things the way they are, ie political topics being talked in the political forum.


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## MARIS61

I also enthusiastically invite Happy Dan to return to posting regularly here AT ONCE!

(Providing he remembers to take his meds) :biggrin:


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## HispanicCausinPanic

R-Star said:


> It keeps being said that you're all fed up though, and that the majority has gone to the other board, so again, why the 17 pages? Why the complaints? If I didnt like this place, I would leave, simple as that. If you guys all hate it here, whats the problem? Go to the other board, simple as that. Or come back here and deal with things the way they are, ie political topics being talked in the political forum.


Mine is only showing 5 pages.


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## GNG

zagsfan20 said:


> Seems like the fact that everyone is switching forums is really getting to you.


Nothing on the Internet bothers me. I use the Internet primarily for entertainment and to be amused. This ordeal has consistently been amusing, if not absurd.


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## HispanicCausinPanic

Cinco de Mayo said:


> Nothing on the Internet bothers me. I use the Internet primarily for entertainment and to be amused. This ordeal has consistently been amusing, if not absurd.


Then go away!


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## GNG

HispanicCausinPanic said:


> Then go away!


Territorial much?

People keep responding to me directly. Even when I'm not talking to them.


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## DaRizzle

:yay:*Woooo!!Party Naked!! We're going streaking!!* :yay:


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## ¹²³

No Streaking


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## It's_GO_Time

R-Star said:


> It keeps being said that you're all fed up though, and that the majority has gone to the other board, so again, why the 17 pages? Why the complaints? If I didnt like this place, I would leave, simple as that. If you guys all hate it here, whats the problem? Go to the other board, simple as that. Or come back here and deal with things the way they are, ie political topics being talked in the political forum.


Edit


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## It's_GO_Time

Cinco de Mayo said:


> Nothing on the Internet bothers me. I use the Internet primarily for entertainment and to be amused. This ordeal has consistently been amusing, if not absurd.


You are so cool . . . I wish I was you.


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## BealzeeBob

You admins need to get CDM out of here. His condescending tone will run the rest of the regulars off if this keeps up. This shouldn't be about being right, it should be about keeping your posters posting HERE, not there.

You surely must remember what happened at fanhome. I stayed for a while after the 'cute' migration, until they put an overbearing mod from the Laker forum over the Blazers forum. That's when I left for BBF/BBB. I never went back.

Go Blazers


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## rocketeer

zagsfan20 said:


> You seem so concerned, yet your not a mod involved in all of this nor are you a Blazer fan. Do you have some kind of stock in Vertical Scope?


i was clearly making fun of hcp's post.

and are you really able to tell me which teams i am a fan of?


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## Hector

BealzeeBob said:


> You admins need to get CDM out of here.


Cinco De Mayo said a couple of times in this thread that in the initial days, posters provoked moderators by calling them fascists. I think what really happened is that they accused HIM of being a fascist. Am I being "insubordinate," as CDM put it? This guy should not be a moderator at any level. All other mods have been relatively cool about this.

Some people's initial reactions were against Dan, so I was surprised that like his opponents, he left the board. I've posted sympathetically with him. As I said, more superior mods should have made the decision on the radical surgery to the board, and not left it to the new junior mod.

I just thought of a juicy conspiracy theory: Lee Harvey Oswald was eliminated before he could talk about the decisions he carried out on behalf of his superiors. Similarly, we are told that Dan immediately vacated the premises, cannot be located to defend himself, and is thus conveniently available for blame.


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## King Joseus

Hector said:


> Cinco De Mayo said a couple of times in this thread that in the initial days, posters provoked moderators by calling them fascists. I think what really happened is that they accused HIM of being a fascist. Am I being "insubordinate," as CDM put it? This guy should not be a moderator at any level. All other mods have been relatively cool about this.
> 
> Some people's initial reactions were against Dan, so I was surprised that like his opponents, he left the board. I've posted sympathetically with him. As I said, more superior mods should have made the decision on the radical surgery to the board, and not left it to the new junior mod.
> 
> I just thought of a juicy conspiracy theory: Lee Harvey Oswald was eliminated before he could talk about the decisions he carried out on behalf of his superiors. Similarly, we are told that Dan immediately vacated the premises, cannot be located to defend himself, and is thus conveniently available for blame.


Juicy? Perhaps. Silly? Certainly.


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## It's_GO_Time

Strange how there are more outside mods responding to these threads than the mods designated for this forum?????


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## Hector

Are you Kiss_My_Cheeks?


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## It's_GO_Time

Hector said:


> Are you Kiss_My_Cheeks?


That's me . . . I went from Kiss_My_Cheeks to Kiss_my_Darius to It's_GO_Time.

I try to take a Blazer I like (yes I liked Darius and Cheeks at some point) and come up with a screen name. I really wanted to use Roy but the names were even lamer than my current one (The_Real_McROY")

Didn't you used to have a different screen name?


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## Hector

I was known as Spud, but with that name I couldn't spy on you.

YOU'RE IN BIG TROUBLE NOW, MISTER!


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## zagsfan20

rocketeer said:


> i was clearly making fun of hcp's post.
> 
> and are you really able to tell me which teams i am a fan of?


How often do you post about the Blazers in the Blazers forum?

Never.

Thats what I thought. 

You need to put in your application to be a mod.


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## R-Star

HispanicCausinPanic said:


> Mine is only showing 5 pages.


I dont have my browser set up that way, seems to take forever to read a page when you have it like that. Although I guess it doesnt make a difference in total reading. Just personal preference.


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## MrJayremmie

Best thing to do is go to options and getting 50 posts per page. The Less pages that you have to go through and load the better.


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## It's_GO_Time

Hector said:


> I was known as Spud, but with that name I couldn't spy on you.
> 
> YOU'RE IN BIG TROUBLE NOW, MISTER!


You are a funny guy hector . . . this will probably reflect poorly on me but I get your sense of humor and find you funny.

But really who are you . . . how can I possibly thik I'm going to get a straight answer? :biggrin:


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## ¹²³

¹²³ said:


> No Streaking


Did people really complain about nudity?


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## DaRizzle

¹²³ said:


> Did people really complain about nudity?


No hippy side *** allowed!!!!


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## jwhoops11

It's_GO_Time said:


> You are a funny guy hector . . . this will probably reflect poorly on me but I get your sense of humor and find you funny.
> 
> But really who are you . . . how can I possibly thik I'm going to get a straight answer? :biggrin:


'Tis a ghost of ESPN board past!

Think long and hard Kiss, it's all in his cadence....


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## Stepping Razor

¹²³ said:


> Did people really complain about nudity?


Yep :whoknows:


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## rocketeer

zagsfan20 said:


> How often do you post about the Blazers in the Blazers forum?
> 
> Never.
> 
> Thats what I thought.


really now? you must not be paying much attention.


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## R-Star

MrJayremmie said:


> Best thing to do is go to options and getting 50 posts per page. The Less pages that you have to go through and load the better.


I guess. I just like being able to read through a page quickly and take a break if needed, knowing which page I left off on.


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## rocketeer

R-Star said:


> I guess. I just like being able to read through a page quickly and take a break if needed, knowing which page I left off on.


i'm with you on that. i'm not sure why i prefer 15 posts per page, probably just because i'm used to it but i'm not really interested in making the switch.


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## DaRizzle

bump :whistling:


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## Krstic All-Star

...I'm still trying to get the image of DaRizzle leading a streak out of my imagination


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## DaRizzle

I know I turn you on but please stop thinking about me


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## Krstic All-Star

On is not the word...


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## DaRizzle

"into a raging hornball" ?


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## Krstic All-Star

Getting even colder...


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## zagsfan20

rocketeer said:


> really now? you must not be paying much attention.


So your a Blazer fan now?


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## R-Star

zagsfan20 said:


> So your a Blazer fan now?


He saying he posts on here from time to time, as do I. Am I a Blazers fan? No, my team is Indy, but I am excited to see the Blazers this year. It will be good to have another dominant center in the league (fingers crossed), and see another year of development from Roy and the rest. They're an exciting young team.


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## Krstic All-Star

Honestly, who _wouldn't_ want to watch this Blazers team? They could easily be the league's most exciting team.


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## DaRizzle

Down with the Blazermaniacs! Rabble! Rabble! Rabble!


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## Krstic All-Star

As long as you don't scream "they took our jobs!"


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## DaRizzle

I bet you liked how the tried to resolve the problem didnt you KAS :biggrin:


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## Krstic All-Star

Oy.


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## DaRizzle

Ill take that as a yes


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## Krstic All-Star

Which solution do you mean? As I recall, they tried two different ones.


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## rocketeer

zagsfan20 said:


> So your a Blazer fan now?


i'm saying if you use the search function you will see that i've posted in 162 different threads in the blazer forum. so if you think i haven't been around, you must not have been paying attention.

and yes when 3 of my favorite 10 players in the league all happen to play for the blazers, i think that makes me a blazer fan.


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## drexlersdad

rocketeer said:


> i'm saying if you use the search function you will see that i've posted in 162 different threads in the blazer forum. so if you think i haven't been around, you must not have been paying attention.
> 
> *and yes when 3 of my favorite 10 players in the league all happen to play for the blazers, i think that makes me a blazer fan.*


nice who are they? the usual suspects?(roy/oden/lma)


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## rocketeer

drexlersdad said:


> nice who are they? the usual suspects?(roy/oden/lma)


yeah those are the 3. i thought roy was definitely the best player out of that draft(before the draft happened) and just love the way he plays. aldridge went to texas, is really good, and i really like as a player. and what isn't there to love about oden?


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