# Would you Trade Elton Brand?



## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

First off, a disclaimer: Elton brand will NEVER be traded by the Clippers. No matter how much/little sense it may make, you RARELY ever see a star with the work ethic, community relations, attitude, etc., traded away unless something strange happens. 

HOwever, i was thinking of it today, and I think the Clippers have no future unless they do trade Elton Brand. 

Outside of San Antonio, which we are so far away from, Very few teams in history have won an nba championship with their best player being a banging power forward. I mean, has there been any teams before? ANd brand is no duncan. We cant rely on a brand to take over games in the waning moments of the 4th quarter. And brand also disappears too much during games. 

Dont get me wrong, i think brand is one of the top PF's in the league, no doubt. What im thinking though is honestly, for the money he is getting, i dont think he is worth it. (if we end up renewing the contract he will command a high price no doubt). 

I think we need to start over, and rebuild (in one off season) and get a superstar SG/SF...the kind that dunleavvy, baylor, and sterling have always wanted (about the only thing they have agreed on).

I say, if there is a chance to trade him for a ray allen, paul pierce, plus filler to replace him at PF, you do it in a heartbeat. Kaman's numbers will increase, and, the new PF might be at 50% brands numbers, but i think we still come out on top with the overall increase we will get from having a superstar SG/SF. 

What if we cant trade brand for such a player? Well, another option would be, if there are a vince carter like who opts out of his contract....that actually would be the ideal situation...perhaps brand could be traded to a charlotte for the number 2 or 3 pick...either durant/oden/wright/noah (to replace brand), and then use the cap space to sign vince as a Free Agent. 

The only way we will see a championship i think is if we trade Elton at this point. Weve already blown the chance last year, when we didnt trade for pierce. We blew it this year, not pulling the trigger on the iverson deal (that already is haunting us, and will continue for the next 4 years probably). We have no real tradeable contracts that can help us. Kaman's deal is too much, no one will want that. Mobleys deal is worse. Maggette is tradeable, but its not like we can get someone in a trade from him thats going to help us get a superstar. Livingston, our previous best tradeable guy could not be traded for penuts at this point. We are capped out for the next 4 years, and theres a chance brand opts out of contract next year, and we lose him for nothing (not totally likely, but still a possiblity)


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## DaFranchise (Jun 29, 2005)

Uh, NOOOOOOOOOO!


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

never...


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## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

But why not? It wasnt just a yes or no question.  Do you really think that this team as is now, will ever qualify for a championship?


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

yamaneko said:


> But why not? It wasnt just a yes or no question.  Do you really think that this team as is now, will ever qualify for a championship?



it's just that we have a horrible track record in terms of homegrown talent...we just don't draft well...we were extremely lucky in the chandler/brand deal, and i just don't trust that management would get fair value in return if we traded brand...


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

He's not a franchise player, so if the right deal came along to you, do it. I wouldn't actively shop him though.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

bootstrenf said:


> never...


For never never.


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## TucsonClip (Sep 2, 2002)

Depending on the trade I would. I wouldnt trade for Allen, but a Pierce package would be interesting.

Brand just turned 28 and like it or not, is the only thing keeping us in the playoff race. In order to trade Brand it would have to be a deal for a star wing and a young big man or high draft pick this year.

I just cant imagine our team without Brand. He is our offense and the staple of our defense. If we trade Brand for a guy like Allen or Pierce, I dont think it makes us any better. In order to trade Brand it would take a nice package and probably Maggette leaving in a three way.


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## Weasel (Oct 18, 2003)

I wouldn't trade him unless you get a mega star in return, which is unlikely. Brand gives it his all and works hard to help the Clippers win, he has a huge heart for the team and the fans you can't trade him away. If Brand ever did get traded for lesser talent there would be a riot at Staples. I wouldn't mind trading anyone not named Cassell and Brand.


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

Weasel said:


> I wouldn't trade him unless you get a mega star in return, which is unlikely. Brand gives it his all and works hard to help the Clippers win, he has a huge heart for the team and the fans you can't trade him away. If Brand ever did get traded for lesser talent there would be a riot at Staples. I wouldn't mind trading anyone not named Cassell and Brand.



the same way i feel...the thing is, the clippers would still lose if we got rid of brand and got a wing...i'd rather lose with brand than with anyone else...


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

What you can do is package him and Maggette for a superstar, that's the only plausible way I think you immediately become a better team by putting Brand in a trade.


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## kamego (Dec 29, 2003)

Trading Brand would be interesting to say the least. I wouldn't do it unless I got something special in return. To find a post player who does what he kind would be difficult but you can never say never. 

Look what happened to the Pistons when they traded Grant Hill, I wasn't hapy when it went down but it really did allow the team to be built into a playoff winner.


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## ElMarroAfamado (Nov 1, 2005)

i wouldnt openly shop him like i said, but yeah with Elton the Clippers will never be more than what they are right now ....and as far as "rebuilding" i doubt the CLippers will rebuild around someone besides Elton...i highly doubt they would ever trade him ....
the Clippers need a Superstar SG or SF and then we can be "contenders" , someone to finish off a game, make clutch shots (much like T-Mac did the other day) and well yeah i would do it if the right deal came along but eh
it wont .....i dont think someone like Ray Allen would do the trick...
i think we need someone like VC or Paul Pierce.....

and i was reading on Yahoo sports that Jameer Nelson might not get extended? ...FIRST THING THE CLIPPERS NEED IS A ****ING PG who can score and do what a ****ing pg is supposed to do....then we can worry about everything else


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## leidout (Jul 13, 2005)

You guys are talking about a superstar SG/SF.... have you all mentally blocked out the disaster at PG???

If Gilbert Arenas was on the table, i'd trade Brand in a heartbeat. That said, i'd probably feel really bad about it, not because he's a top-tier player, but because he and Maggette changed a nearly a decade long streak of ***** *** players who "didn't want to be a clipper."

Honestly, Brand has got 2 or 3 seasons left at this level maximum. Without a savvy-PG, he goes back to the 20-10 fringe all-star he's been for his whole career. The clippers don't seem to have any big moves left after blindly ignoring the Livingston time bomb, and with no championship on the horizon, trading everyone should be an option with one of the most anticipated drafts in recent history coming up... but it won't happen, oh well.


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## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

Well, like i said, im not saying trade brand just for the heck of it...but ONLY if we either 

A. are getting a superstar wing in return as part of the deal such as allen, pierce, redd, etc. etc.

or 

B. getting one of the hot young forwards in the draft, for just cap relief, so that we sign another superstar wing flat out in free agency such as a vince carter if hes available.

Anything else, and theres no point to trade brand. The only way i trade brand, is if its for the pieces that could make us championship contenders. Without that, were not a championship team, so might as well keep brand, and have a "nice guy" on our non championship team, as opposed to a mal content.


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## Mr. Hobbes (Jul 1, 2005)

What about Pau Gasol?


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## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

Again, i dont think a superstar PF is going to get us to the championship. Gasol is pretty much elton brand. Only way id want gasol, is if we trade kaman and others for gasol. TWO superstar players in the front court just might get us a championship...not one. 

ANd remember guys, before, weve always actually had opportunities to have brand AND a superstar wing, which is what the clippers have always wanted to do. We were close to getting kobe, we were considered by allen. Then, we actually had the chance to trade for pierce, iverson, carter, etc. but our management screwed it up since they didnt want to let go of livingston right off the bat.

So the ONLY reason im even bringing this up now, is now we have ZERO ZERO ZERO chance of getting a superstar wing player. We dont have cap space, we dont have anyone tradeable other than brand. Sure, theres a 0.5 percent chance that we fall down in the lottery, maybe pick up a number 8 pick, and then that guy turns out to be a superstar like a pierce who was around that pick, but thats HIGHLY unlikely.


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## leidout (Jul 13, 2005)

Chan said:


> What about Pau Gasol?


Pau Gasol should already be on the team, if the clips had seized the moment, we could've probably had him for Livingston + Maggette/Kaman.

But as a straight switch, Gasol for Brand would probably not make much difference on either team.


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## Free Arsenal (Nov 8, 2004)

I'm sad to say but I'm starting to see Yama's logic more and more. We have to think here, are we Clipper fans, or Elton fans? If Elton got traded to the Knicks would you start following the Knicks now? People who liked Ben Wallace liked him only because he was on the Pistons, after he left, they booed him.

It really depends on who you want to follow, a team always changes its players. Some people have favorite players, and their favorite team changes with the players, while others have a favorite team, and it doesn't change.

I follow basketball for the team. If trading Elton makes us better, let's do it. If firing Dunleavy makes us better, then fire him, and if letting Livingston go after the season is the best for the team, so be it. I followed the Clippers before Brand was here, I'll still follow them when he's gone.


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## Zuca (Dec 4, 2003)

Chan said:


> What about Pau Gasol?


I think that if Brand can't lead this team to the next level, neither can do Gasol. But do you Clippers fans think Gasol fit better than Brand into Dunleavy tactics? I just know that Gasol and Kaman would be a better pair than Kaman and Brand.


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## leidout (Jul 13, 2005)

Free Arsenal said:


> I'm sad to say but I'm starting to see Yama's logic more and more. We have to think here, are we Clipper fans, or Elton fans? If Elton got traded to the Knicks would you start following the Knicks now? People who liked Ben Wallace liked him only because he was on the Pistons, after he left, they booed him.
> 
> It really depends on who you want to follow, a team always changes its players. Some people have favorite players, and their favorite team changes with the players, while others have a favorite team, and it doesn't change.
> 
> I follow basketball for the team. If trading Elton makes us better, let's do it. If firing Dunleavy makes us better, then fire him, and if letting Livingston go after the season is the best for the team, so be it. I followed the Clippers before Brand was here, I'll still follow them when he's gone.


Lol, yep it's kinda scary when yama makes sense to me too :biggrin: 

I was a big Odom fan, can't stand the guy now, especially after that exit. All that matters to me is whether or not we can win a championship or come really close to it. Some clipper fans seem to take a different mode of thought that "hey if we make the playoffs we're happy" but i just don't see how any team can play without the ultimate goal of winning or building towards a championship. 

ZUCA: Also about Pau Gasol "fitting" into Dunleavy's system, you got it backwards, Dunleavy seems to have it in his mind that the players must adapt to his system (i.e. wilcox & maggette)... which very few players can do. Elton Brand just happens to play that boring style of basketball that Dunleavy loves, Sam Cassell doesn't listen, and everyone else seems to not be able to play to their maximum ability in this system. Gasol is an equal player to Brand, but on the clippers his range & offensive abilities would be underappreciated for sure.

If you read our boards much, we're virtually 100% in agreement that Dunleavy can't coach a mildly acceptable offense and his defensive coaching has dropped off a lot as well.


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## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

Yeah, im a brand fan, but first and formost im a clipper fan. I want to see the team succeed, and the last few weeks, ive been thinking of ANY possible way to make us a championship team....and really, unless we trade brand, i dont think its possible. 

Not to mention the very real possibility that we lose brand for nothing after next year.


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## beavertrapper (Oct 29, 2005)

We are Clipper fans because of the players on the team! What makes the Clippers?..... The players! So are we Clipper fans cause we just really like our team LOGO? NO!!Cause our team logo sucks! We are Clipper fans because of the team history, the players and most of all the excitement and dream the LA's #1 team doesn't have to be the Lakers! The worst move in this team's history is not drafting Olowakandi as the #1 pick but it was NOT trading Livingston for Iverson! Case closed!!!


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## Free Arsenal (Nov 8, 2004)

leidout said:


> Lol, yep it's kinda scary when yama makes sense to me too :biggrin:
> 
> I was a big Odom fan, can't stand the guy now, especially after that exit. All that matters to me is whether or not we can win a championship or come really close to it. Some clipper fans seem to take a different mode of thought that "hey if we make the playoffs we're happy" but i just don't see how any team can play without the ultimate goal of winning or building towards a championship.



I loved Odom as a Clipper fan, thought he was okay with the heat, but booed him because of his attitude when he played against the clippers after he became a laker.


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## DaFranchise (Jun 29, 2005)

EB is not the problem. If we get rid of him we might never win another game! We need some damn shooters to put around him.


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## leidout (Jul 13, 2005)

DaFranchise said:


> EB is not the problem. If we get rid of him we might never win another game! We need some damn shooters to put around him.


Yep, just shooters, a point guard, a reliable/athletic center, some defenders, and a new coach. 

You think it's that easy to get the clips into championship contention, eh?


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## Free Arsenal (Nov 8, 2004)

The only way we will be able to win the Championship is if we get role players.

Believe it or not, the Spurs main star is Duncan, Parker and Ginobili are just really good role/complimentary players. Parker spreads the offense, and Ginobili draws the fouls. Duncan gets the open shots and the assists.

For Phoenix, sure they got 3 all-stars, but the reality is, Nash is the main star/distributor. Marion and Stoudamire are just complimentary players... if we're going to have a power forward be our main player, which is not the primary ball handler, we need guards that are good ball handlers, and movers aka players that are able to get attention and then dish like parker, or players that know their role and move the ball like those on the Dallas Mavericks, along with shooters. If we get a guard or primary ball handler to be our main player, like Nash, or Kobe, then we need a team to be adequate scorers that the main player can dish to, as well as the main player to be a good enough threat himself to draw players towards him.

The best teams are built into a system where the danger is not just one person, but a group of people. Right now, most of our players do not have the ability to dish or score without the ball.


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## DaFranchise (Jun 29, 2005)

leidout said:


> Yep, just shooters, a point guard, a reliable/athletic center, some defenders, and a new coach.
> 
> You think it's that easy to get the clips into championship contention, eh?


I never said that but I think its pretty ridiculous that we are even discussing trading EB. He is the only guy on this team who hasnt gived up on the season yet. Trading EB would be the franchise's biggest mistake and that is saying a lot for this organization.


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## leidout (Jul 13, 2005)

DaFranchise said:


> I never said that but I think its pretty ridiculous that we are even discussing trading EB. He is the only guy on this team who hasnt gived up on the season yet. Trading EB would be the franchise's biggest mistake and that is saying a lot for this organization.


Why not discuss trading EB? Except for last year's "Sam Cassell Show", we've been playing the same mediocre & underachieving basketball for about 6 or 7 years in a row. And i'm sick of it.

Elton Brand is the only one who hasn't given up? So what! If he can't convince his teammates to do the same, then how much is his effort really worth???

The clippers are looking like they will continue to remain a mediocre team for a long time, i think it's pretty ridiculous that people are fine with that.


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## Jizzy (Aug 24, 2005)

How about a Maggette and Brand for Pierce and Al Jefferson deal?


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## Free Arsenal (Nov 8, 2004)

WE're looking for youth.


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## DaFranchise (Jun 29, 2005)

leidout said:


> Why not discuss trading EB? Except for last year's "Sam Cassell Show", we've been playing the same mediocre & underachieving basketball for about 6 or 7 years in a row. And i'm sick of it.
> 
> Elton Brand is the only one who hasn't given up? So what! If he can't convince his teammates to do the same, then how much is his effort really worth???
> 
> The clippers are looking like they will continue to remain a mediocre team for a long time, i think it's pretty ridiculous that people are fine with that.


No one is fine with being mediocre but we cant afford to lose EB. He is are only low post presence and you want to get rid of that. Imagine our low post game and rebounding without EB. Exaclty, you cant imagine one because there wouldnt be one. What we need to do is unload Kaman's contract somehow. I dont care if we dont get equal value for him. He needs to be traded in the offseason


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

we are this horrible *with* brand...now imagine if he weren't here...all the superstar wing play in the world won't do any good if there is no one to protect the paint...


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