# Steve Francis bought out (And Signs with Houston)



## Weasel

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2919929



> The Blazers, however, are planning to buy out Francis' contract and make him a free agent this summer, sources said.


If healthy he wouldn't be bad. Not sure how much money he is going to want but it doesn't hurt that we have Mobley and he is best friends with him. I have never been a fan but he could be a decent backup at PG and SG.


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## nauticazn25

*Re: Steve Francis to be bought out after trade?*

lets get boykins


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## leidout

*Re: Steve Francis to be bought out after trade?*

Boykins or Francis will probably put us over the cap, therefore very unlikely.


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## MR. VADA

*Re: Steve Francis to be bought out after trade?*

we don't need boykins, but "broke back francis" could help us stimulate "one night mobley" and would be a hell of a pg/sg...holla if ya feel me...vada


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## matador1238

*Re: Steve Francis to be bought out after trade?*

Maybe he will sign with us for cheap to play with his buddy.


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## DaFranchise

*Re: Steve Francis to be bought out after trade?*

We wouldnt be having this discussion if we would have drafted our biggest need in the draft.


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## DaFranchise

*Re: Steve Francis to be bought out after trade?*



matador1238 said:


> Maybe he will sign with us for cheap to play with his buddy.


Yeah maybe they can share the same closet again. This team is going down the drain. EB will never resign when his deal runs out in 2 years. Back to the old Clipers. Great


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## yamaneko

*Re: Steve Francis to be bought out after trade?*

id take francis in a heartbeat, even if it puts us in the luxury tax. Is incentive ladden contracts allowed in the nba? Like play in X amount of games, get a bonus or something? If so do that if were afraid of injury. Just a short time ago francis was doing things that few players in nba history were doing (stats wise). If he will be happy in any team in all of the nba it would be with his best closet buddy mobley.


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## Weasel

*Re: Steve Francis to be bought out after trade?*



leidout said:


> Boykins or Francis will probably put us over the cap, therefore very unlikely.


It all depends on the price. I agree if he wants a lot money its not going to happen here. Though one would think he has made enough and the chance to play with his best friend out weight the cost. But for some money is everything so he could go for the big bucks if released.


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## yamaneko

*Re: Steve Francis to be bought out after trade?*

but then again, if hes bought out, he wont really care abuot money right? So perhaps theres a chance he does a finley, etc. and plays for a low salary. 

But were all getting ahead of ourselves. Lets wait to see if portland does buy him out or not.


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## leidout

*Re: Steve Francis to be bought out after trade?*



yamaneko said:


> but then again, if hes bought out, he wont really care abuot money right? So perhaps theres a chance he does a finley, etc. and plays for a low salary.
> 
> But were all getting ahead of ourselves. Lets wait to see if portland does buy him out or not.


In my entire experience as a basketball fan, i've only known about 3 high level players willing to take lowball money to play for a team: Karl Malone, Gary Payton, Alonzo Mourning.... and the reason was the same for all three, to be on a championship team.... we are not a championship team at all, so it's near impossible in my book.


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## yamaneko

*Re: Steve Francis to be bought out after trade?*

But what about the guys who were bought out last couple years like finley, tim thomas, etc. etc. Did francis ever get a ring in houston? Maybe he just wants to play with his buddy


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## leidout

*Re: Steve Francis to be bought out after trade?*



yamaneko said:


> But what about the guys who were bought out last couple years like finley, tim thomas, etc. etc. Did francis ever get a ring in houston? Maybe he just wants to play with his buddy


Finley is playing for the full MLE if i remember correctly, Thomas (who had a terrible reputation at the time) is getting about 4mil a year right?

I just can't see Francis playing for less than 4 mil, which would still put us over the cap right?


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## squeemu

*Re: Steve Francis to be bought out after trade?*



DaFranchise said:


> We wouldnt be having this discussion if we would have drafted our biggest need in the draft.


Who? Critteton?


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## Showtime87

*Re: Steve Francis to be bought out after trade?*

I can't believe I'm agreeing with Yamenko, but I would love to see Francis come to Clipps too. He was injured the past couple of seasons, true. But late in the year when he was actually getting some playing time he did a decent job producing. He could be nice combo guard option and having Cuttino here may help rejuvinate him even further.


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## DaFranchise

*Re: Steve Francis to be bought out after trade?*



squeemu said:


> Who? Critteton?


Exactly. Now I have to watch him turn into a stud in a freakin Laker jersey


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## Weasel

*Re: Steve Francis to be bought out after trade?*

http://www.ocregister.com/ocregister/sports/abox/article_1749568.php



> Also intriguing to the Clippers is the possibility that Portland will buy out the remainder of guard Steve Francis' contract, which is $34,250,000 over the next two years. New York traded Francis to Portland on Thursday.


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## yamaneko

*Re: Steve Francis to be bought out after trade?*

----keeps fingers crossed


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## Weasel

*Re: Steve Francis to be bought out after trade?*

Clippers aim to get Francis



> Moving to bolster the team at point guard, the Clippers are pursuing three-time All-Star Steve Francis, who could become a free agent this week, league and team sources said Sunday.





> General Manager Elgin Baylor and Coach Mike Dunleavy are also interested in Jason Hart, who joined the team late last season, and Brevin Knight, but Francis is potentially the team's highest-profile option.





> The Clippers hope to sign Francis, 30, for a portion of the mid-level exception, reuniting him with his longtime friend, guard Cuttino Mobley.





> Portland must wait for the deal to be finalized before the buyout negotiated by Francis' agent, Jeff Fried, can take effect.
> 
> Attempts to contact Fried, Baylor and Dunleavy were unsuccessful Sunday, but sources said acquiring Francis is the Clippers' top off-season priority.


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## shaunliv

*Re: Steve Francis to be bought out after trade? (Clippers interested in Francis?)*

if he's healthy let's take him, fingers are crossed!


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## yamaneko

*Re: Steve Francis to be bought out after trade? (Clippers interested in Francis?)*

Wow, im not holding my breath, but this might be the first time in a while the clippers are pursuing what many of us feel is the most logical thing to do, under the circumstances


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## Free Arsenal

*Re: Steve Francis to be bought out after trade? (Clippers interested in Francis?)*

Hahaha, I know it's stupid and illogical by most standards, but I'm hoping Jordan becomes so impressive in Summer league that the Clippers sign Francis as only a back up...:lol:


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## Ruff Draft

*Re: Steve Francis to be bought out after trade? (Clippers interested in Francis?)*

If he can bring anythign close to 15/5/5 it will be well worth it, and not to forget about Cuttino picking up his game. I really like this signing.


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## leidout

*Re: Steve Francis to be bought out after trade? (Clippers interested in Francis?)*

I'm shocked, why aren't we going after another Small Forward???

Heh, seriously tho, hope we don't overpay for this guy, he's 30 & a huge injury liability, but his talent is definitely the best of the FA's available (outside of Billups of course).


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## Weasel

*Re: Steve Francis to be bought out after trade? (Clippers interested in Francis?)*

If the Clippers really want him I hope they end up getting him. Because it would suck if they waited on Francis to be waived, he doesn't join the Clippers and they miss out on the other FA's in the market because of the wait.


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## ElMarroAfamado

*Re: Steve Francis to be bought out after trade? (Clippers interested in Francis?)*

Boykins...NO.,..he is too short and his lack of size always makes him commit stupid turnovers


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## Ruff Draft

*Re: Steve Francis to be bought out after trade? (Clippers interested in Francis?)*

He's the most talented guard after Billups. A injury liability? He got mild injuries twice and that ruins his career? The guy has averaged close to 80 games his whole career. He has taken a step down from "Franchise," but an average of 15/5/5 isn't something you shrug off. The guy can still play, and next to Cuttino it'll eb a beautiful thing. In a non-gay way.


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## leidout

*Re: Steve Francis to be bought out after trade? (Clippers interested in Francis?)*



XMATTHEWX said:


> He's the most talented guard after Billups. A injury liability? He got mild injuries twice and that ruins his career? The guy has averaged close to 80 games his whole career. He has taken a step down from "Franchise," but an average of 15/5/5 isn't something you shrug off. The guy can still play, and next to Cuttino it'll eb a beautiful thing. In a non-gay way.


He played 44 games last year, that's a yellow flag, if not red flag for someone who's 30. And it's been a couple of years since he's pulled off 15/5/5. He's been close, but production going down every year doesn't sit too well with me.

I'm not saying we shouldn't go for him tho, just saying that the price should be right. This isn't someone we absolutely can't do without, who deserves to be overpaid.

We overpaid for Mobley, now 2 years later we're stuck with his crappy contract.


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## Ruff Draft

*Re: Steve Francis to be bought out after trade? (Clippers interested in Francis?)*

Well do you forget how that injruy was caused? Bruce Bowen. He average 14/5/4 last year, and every year before that it was more. All you can offer him is the MLE, and for this team he is worth every penny of it if it's needed.


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## Free Arsenal

*Re: Steve Francis to be bought out after trade? (Clippers interested in Francis?)*



XMATTHEWX said:


> Well do you forget how that injruy was caused? *Bruce Bowen*. He average 14/5/4 last year, and every year before that it was more. All you can offer him is the MLE, and for this team he is worth every penny of it if it's needed.


When is Vince gonna kick his...


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## MR. VADA

*Re: Steve Francis to be bought out after trade? (Clippers interested in Francis?)*

yeah, im pretty sure stevie can "rejuvinate" the mobster...the ? is, does he want to play clippers ball or monster balls?...we'll find out in a couple of weeks...plus he and brand were co-rookies of the year...vada


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## MR. VADA

*Re: Steve Francis to be bought out after trade? (Clippers interested in Francis?)*

cat's gonna do more than pick up his game...vada


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## MR. VADA

*Re: Steve Francis to be bought out after trade? (Clippers interested in Francis?)*

He's the most talented guard after Billups. A injury liability? He got mild injuries twice and that ruins his career? The guy has averaged close to 80 games his whole career. He has taken a step down from "Franchise," but an average of 15/5/5 isn't something you shrug off. The guy can still play, and next to Cuttino it'll eb a beautiful thing. In a non-gay way.

your right love is stronger than money stevie is ours...vada
__________________


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## MR. VADA

*Re: Steve Francis to be bought out after trade? (Clippers interested in Francis?)*



leidout said:


> He played 44 games last year, that's a yellow flag, if not red flag for someone who's 30. And it's been a couple of years since he's pulled off 15/5/5. He's been close, but production going down every year doesn't sit too well with me.
> 
> I'm not saying we shouldn't go for him tho, just saying that the price should be right. This isn't someone we absolutely can't do without, who deserves to be overpaid.
> 
> We overpaid for Mobley, now 2 years later we're stuck with his crappy contract.


honestly we don't need him to meet his career averages, we just need him to be better than jason hart, and i think he's capable...i hope this doesn't **** up diaz making the team cause we will regret it...vada


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## MR. VADA

*Re: Steve Francis to be bought out after trade? (Clippers interested in Francis?)*



XMATTHEWX said:


> Well do you forget how that injruy was caused? Bruce Bowen. He average 14/5/4 last year, and every year before that it was more. All you can offer him is the MLE, and for this team he is worth every penny of it if it's needed.



i totaly agree with you 100 percent...vada


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## TakingitbyStorm

*Re: Steve Francis to be bought out after trade? (Clippers interested in Francis?)*

*honestly we don't need him to meet his career averages, we just need him to be better than jason hart, and i think he's capable...*
I agree and will take it a step further in that we need him to be better defensively than Hart. He has the ability, and I think this was more his focus when he was sharing the floor with Steph in NY.
*
i hope this doesn't **** up diaz making the team cause we will regret it...vada* 

I really like Diaz' game in today's NBA. I think that this will give Dunleavy the perfect mentor for Diaz even if it's just pointing out what not to do.


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## DaFranchise

*Re: Steve Francis to be bought out after trade? (Clippers interested in Francis?)*

Not a big fan of this guy but I guess we have to do something.


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## matador1238

*Re: Steve Francis to be bought out after trade? (Clippers interested in Francis?)*



DaFranchise said:


> Not a big fan of this guy but I guess we have to do something.


Same here.... We need as much help as we can get. Almost every team in the West improved and look at us.


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## RAS1398

*Re: Steve Francis to be bought out after trade? (Clippers interested in Francis?)*

he can help us significantly period!
he didn't just forget to ball all of a sudden...

its funny how bad situations can kill your mojo..

you can be the most talented player in the world but if youre not wanted your heart isnt in the game..

yeah there "pros" and they should let it get to them...but it does...
i think the clipps positive vibe can be contagious we have a great group and he'll fit in perfectly..


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## Weasel

*Re: Steve Francis to be bought out after trade? (Clippers interested in Francis?)*

http://www.news-herald.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=18544512&BRD=1698&PAG=461&dept_id=21848&rfi=6



> Steve Francis' agent, Jeff Fried, is supposedly working on a buyout of the remaining $34.3 million remaining on his two-year contract with Portland. The Cavs have shown some interest in Francis, but the Los Angeles Clippers might have the inside track. *Francis is reportedly intrigued at being reunited with former running mate Cuttino Mobley*.


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## yamaneko

*Re: Steve Francis to be bought out after trade? (Clippers interested in Francis?)*

we better not miss out on him.


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## Weasel

*Re: Steve Francis to be bought out after trade? (Clippers interested in Francis?)*

Well it looks like the trade is finally official so now the Blazers can talk to Francis about the possible buyout. The rumors are still around that the Blazers are going to buy him out, makes sense seeing that they don't really need him and the Blazers already have something like 20 players on the team.


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## Futurama_Fanatic

*Re: Steve Francis to be bought out after trade? (Clippers interested in Francis?)*



Free Arsenal said:


> When is Vince gonna kick his...


when more people join my sig :biggrin:


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## yamaneko

*Re: Steve Francis to be bought out after trade? (Clippers interested in Francis?)*

Alright, Mobley better be on the phone all day and night with your bud convincing him to play here for less (possibly) money than he can get elsewhere.


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## DaFranchise

*Re: Steve Francis to be bought out after trade? (Clippers interested in Francis?)*

Has even been bought out of his contract yet?


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## Weasel

*Re: Steve Francis to be bought out after trade? (Clippers interested in Francis?)*



DaFranchise said:


> Has even been bought out of his contract yet?


Not yet but supposedly soon. The trade officially happened today so they can start negotiating as of today on a buyout.


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## Weasel

*Re: Steve Francis to be bought out after trade? (Clippers interested in Francis?)*

Any word on Francis and a buyout? I haven't heard anything for a while. It would be nice for the Clippers if Francis is bought out ASAP so they can see if Francis is going to go to the Clippers if not then look at signing someone else.


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## Weasel

*Re: Steve Francis to be bought out after trade? (Clippers interested in Francis?)*

http://www.latimes.com/sports/baske...184.story?coll=la-headlines-sports-nba-clippe



> Meanwhile, the Clippers' pursuit of point guard Steve Francis continued.
> 
> The Portland Trail Blazers and Francis' agent, Jeff Fried, are in the process of negotiating a buyout of the three-time All-Star's contract. If a deal is completed, Francis would be free to sign with another team, and the Clippers are on his list.
> 
> Many other teams, however, are also interested in Francis, so the process could drag on for weeks, sources said.


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## yamaneko

*Re: Steve Francis to be bought out after trade? (Clippers interested in Francis?)*

oh brother, youve got to be kidding me.


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## Futurama_Fanatic

*Re: Steve Francis to be bought out after trade? (Clippers interested in Francis?)*

so which other teams are interested in Francis? i know the lakers are one (or should be one).


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## Ruff Draft

*Re: Steve Francis to be bought out after trade? (Clippers interested in Francis?)*

It's either reuniting with his BFF4L or going back to Houston. I highly doubt any other team has a chance.


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## bootstrenf

*Re: Steve Francis to be bought out after trade? (Clippers interested in Francis?)*



XMATTHEWX said:


> It's either reuniting with his BF*F*4L or going back to Houston. I highly doubt any other team has a chance.



i think that the second "f" is redundant...i think the "4" has it covered...


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## mediocre man

*Re: Steve Francis to be bought out after trade? (Clippers interested in Francis?)*



ClippersRuleLA said:


> so which other teams are interested in Francis? i know the lakers are one (or should be one).



Miami is one, Milwaukee really needs a PG as well. I'm hoping Portland can somehow convince a team to trade for him instead. I doubt that will happen though.


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## PAIDNFULL23

*Re: Steve Francis to be bought out after trade? (Clippers interested in Francis?)*

Francis is officially bought out, but it will take him a week to clear waivers and become a FA

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/wizardsinsider/2007/07/francis_is_free.html


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## Weasel

*Re: Steve Francis to be bought out after trade? (Clippers interested in Francis?)*



PAIDNFULL23 said:


> Francis is officially bought out, but it will take him a week to clear waivers and become a FA
> 
> http://blog.washingtonpost.com/wizardsinsider/2007/07/francis_is_free.html


Finally, hopefully the Clippers get a promise from him asap.


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## Showtime87

*Re: Steve Francis bought out (Clippers interested in Francis?)*

I highly doubt he would end up signing in Milwaukee. It's between the Clippers, Lakers and Heat in my opinion. But, time will tell. Hopefully the Clipps are in the lead because of Cat.


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## MickyEyez

*Re: Steve Francis bought out (Clippers interested in Francis?)*

what do you guys think is a reasonable deal for the Franchise?

1 year?
5 year?
4 mil a year or 24 mil a year?

i am personally a francis fan... and i think he could really improve the clips, but at what price... i was not a fan of the contract that came with him when we traded TMac, but at a reasonable price, this guy could be a steal. does anyone know what kind of deal he/his agent are asking for?


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## Showtime87

*Re: Steve Francis bought out (Clippers interested in Francis?)*

He's obviously not going to get a huge deal after his buyout from Portland, I would think somewhere along the lines of 2 years at 5 million per could be adequate. I wouldn't want to give him a three or four year deal because of his past health issues.


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## Weasel

*Re: Steve Francis bought out (Clippers interested in Francis?)*

http://blog.oregonlive.com/behindblazersbeat/2007/07/aldridge_out_undergoes_mri_on.html



> It is believed Francis will sign a two-year deal with the Los Angeles Clippers, probably for around $1 million this year and around $5 million next season.


I don't know how legit this guy is but I think he one of the major Blazer reporters.


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## Futurama_Fanatic

*Re: Steve Francis bought out (Clippers interested in Francis?)*



Weasel said:


> http://blog.oregonlive.com/behindblazersbeat/2007/07/aldridge_out_undergoes_mri_on.html
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know how legit this guy is but I think he one of the major Blazer reporters.


:gopray:

i got so excited right now im bout to pee my pants


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## bootstrenf

*Re: Steve Francis bought out (Clippers interested in Francis?)*



ClippersRuleLA said:


> :gopray:
> 
> i got so excited right now im bout to pee my pants



a very sad state of affairs for the clipper nation...we are all excited about signing *steve francis*...


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## Weasel

*Re: Steve Francis bought out (Clippers interested in Francis?)*

http://www.newsday.com/sports/am-nba0712,0,3851103.story?coll=ny-sports-headlines



> Francis, who was due $34 million over the final two years of his contract, was expected to clear waivers and become an unrestricted free agent, soon to sign with the Los Angeles Clippers.


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## hutcht02

*Re: Steve Francis bought out (Clippers interested in Francis?)*

According to the Orgonian:



> "Pritchard said he was pleased with the Francis buyout, which is believed to be around $30 million. The Blazers negotiated a 50 percent offset in the deal, meaning the team will get 50 percent cap relief from whatever Francis earns in the next two years. It is believed Francis will sign a two-year deal with the Los Angeles Clippers, probably for around $1 million this year and around $5 million next season. That means the Blazers will save about $3 million."


Nice. Two sources have Francis a Clipper in the near future. I can't wait 'til we seal the deal and move forward with our off-season and roster-shaping.


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## leidout

*Re: Steve Francis bought out (Clippers interested in Francis?)*



bootstrenf said:


> a very sad state of affairs for the clipper nation...we are all excited about signing *steve francis*...


My feelings exactly.

Let's hope we don't do something stupid and sign him for more than 3 years and more than 3 mil per year.


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## DaFranchise

*Re: Steve Francis bought out (Clippers interested in Francis?)*

I am not a big fan of Stevie Franchise but anything is better than Ewing. Thats why we should have drafted Critt but I guess thats in the past. If we can get The Franchise without overpaying him then Im all for it. I heard he has already moved into Cats crib. Reunited and it feels so goooooood!


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## PAIDNFULL23

*Re: Steve Francis bought out (Clippers interested in Francis?)*



DaFranchise said:


> I am not a big fan of Stevie Franchise but anything is better than Ewing. Thats why we should have drafted Critt but I guess thats in the past. If we can get The Franchise without overpaying him then Im all for it. *I heard he has already moved into Cats crib. Reunited and it feels so goooooood!*



Lol, are you serious? That's some funny ****. Let's hope their Brokeback moments don't make them late for any games.


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## hutcht02

*Re: Steve Francis bought out (Clippers interested in Francis?)*



PAIDNFULL23 said:


> Lol, are you serious? That's some funny ****. Let's hope their Brokeback moments don't make them late for any games.


It might be kinda unconventional, but at least they both play well together on the court and it keeps them both from complaining. I think they will spark each other and we'll see not only a good addition in Francis, but improvement in Mobley too.


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## PAIDNFULL23

*Re: Steve Francis bought out (Clippers interested in Francis?)*



hutcht02 said:


> It might be kinda unconventional, but at least they both play well together on the court and it keeps them both from complaining. I think they will spark each other and we'll see not only a good addition in Francis, but improvement in Mobley too.


Yeah if Steve can get Mobley to play better than its like a 2 for 1


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## yamaneko

*Re: Steve Francis bought out (Clippers interested in Francis?)*

Interesting...so portland actually would want us to sign him for as much money as possible? Whatever a bought out player signs for, half of that the original team gets back? Is that how it works? Perhaps we can work another trade with portland, and have as part of the deal, we sign francis for a little more to perhaps have them give us something better in return. 

I am not saying its a given yet, how many times have we been dissapointed as clipper fans at moves that shoudl have but didnt happen. But ill be the happiest guy when it does happen. You can do a search on this board, and find that ive wanted steve francis here for a year or two.


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## Weasel

*Re: Steve Francis bought out (Clippers interested in Francis?)*

I haven't seen the story get picked up yet else where, especially LA Times and OC Register who are first to get the Clippers news. Hopefully those two outlets that posted the news on Weds were right. It helps that Mobley is his best friend and Cassell and Francis are business partners or something like that. I believe all three of them workout during the summer.


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## bootstrenf

*Re: Steve Francis bought out (Clippers interested in Francis?)*

mavs interested in francis???


link


bastards...they don't even need a pg...trying to cockblock us again...first they cockblock us from getting into the playoffs last year, and now this...bastards...


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## MickyEyez

*Re: Steve Francis bought out (Clippers interested in Francis?)*



bootstrenf said:


> mavs interested in francis???
> 
> 
> link
> 
> 
> *bastards...they don't even need a pg...trying to cockblock us again...first they cockblock us from getting into the playoffs last year, and now this...bastards...*


they understand who the biggest threat is in the west... that's all...


i dont know if you guys will get this guy for less than 3 years 10 mil... some team out there will give franchise more than he is worth and they will give him "one more shot".


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## bootstrenf

*Re: Steve Francis bought out (Clippers interested in Francis?)*



MickyEyez said:


> they understand who the biggest threat is in the west... that's all...
> 
> 
> i dont know if you guys will get this guy for less than 3 years 10 mil... some team out there will give franchise more than he is worth and they will give him "one more shot".



i'm starting to hate dallas man...fockers...


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## MickyEyez

*Re: Steve Francis bought out (Clippers interested in Francis?)*



bootstrenf said:


> i'm starting to hate dallas man...fockers...


i just heard on ESPN radio that Houston is currently making a strong push to bring him back to Houston...

i'd hate to say it... but i see him going back to his home state Texas. Still early though..


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## bootstrenf

*Re: Steve Francis bought out (Clippers interested in Francis?)*



MickyEyez said:


> i just heard on ESPN radio that Houston is currently making a strong push to bring him back to Houston...
> 
> i'd hate to say it... but i see him going back to his home state Texas. Still early though..



i know, but he has a strong incentive to go to the clippers...his brokeback buddy mobley is already there...


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## Showtime87

*Re: Steve Francis bought out (Clippers interested in Francis?)*

The Rockets already have like what, 10 point guards on their current roster?? No way he goes to Houston, he's a Clipper.


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## MickyEyez

*Re: Steve Francis bought out (Clippers interested in Francis?)*



bootstrenf said:


> i know, but he has a strong incentive to go to the clippers...his brokeback buddy mobley is already there...


haha..

i agree that he does... i was just letting you guys know other teams also interested..

if he does come to la, how many slumber parties can they have over an 82 game season? over under 50?


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## bootstrenf

*Re: Steve Francis bought out (Clippers interested in Francis?)*



MickyEyez said:


> haha..
> 
> i agree that he does... i was just letting you guys know other teams also interested..
> 
> if he does come to la, how many slumber parties can they have over an 82 game season? over under 50?



probably over...you know they'll have a few hotel room pillow fights on the road...


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## ElMarroAfamado

*Re: Steve Francis bought out (Clippers interested in Francis?)*

has he signed yet?
and well people might call him a cancer or say his skills are diminishing BUT really if you look at it he is better than most of the Pgs we have ever had.....i hope we can get him


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## yamaneko

*Re: Steve Francis bought out (Clippers interested in Francis?)*

I think we have to wait until middle of next week for him to clear waivers.


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## MickyEyez

*Re: Steve Francis bought out (Clippers interested in Francis?)*



bootstrenf said:


> probably over...you know they'll have a few hotel room pillow fights on the road...


:lol:


----------



## Showtime87

*Re: Steve Francis bought out (Clippers interested in Francis?)*



MickyEyez said:


> haha..
> 
> i agree that he does... i was just letting you guys know other teams also interested..
> 
> if he does come to la, how many slumber parties can they have over an 82 game season? over under 50?


Come on, you guys are just being silly now. LOL


----------



## ElMarroAfamado

*Re: Steve Francis bought out (Clippers interested in Francis?)*



MickyEyez said:


> haha..
> 
> i agree that he does... i was just letting you guys know other teams also interested..
> 
> if he does come to la, how many slumber parties can they have over an 82 game season? over under 50?


:lol:


----------



## bootstrenf

*Re: Steve Francis bought out (Clippers interested in Francis?)*

none of us really care about the sexual orientation of the two brokeback buddies...it's just jokes...


as long as they can ball(on the basketball court), it's all good...


----------



## DaFranchise

*Re: Steve Francis bought out (Clippers interested in Francis?)*



bootstrenf said:


> probably over...you know they'll have a few hotel room pillow fights on the road...


AAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!! Pillow fights. That was hilarious


----------



## ElMarroAfamado

*Re: Steve Francis bought out (Clippers interested in Francis?)*

it seems no other team will take cuz him cuz of the "cancer" thing...but it seems the Clippers are the front runners cuz of Cuttino no ???

and im really hoping if he signs he somehow rejuvenates his career


:gopray:


----------



## bootstrenf

*Re: Steve Francis bought out (Clippers interested in Francis?)*


----------



## Vaught from his Spot

*Re: Steve Francis bought out (Clippers interested in Francis?)*

Photoshop quality, C+
Comedy, A+++

Overall, I'd say that's the winner so far.


----------



## Darth Bryant

*Re: Steve Francis bought out (Clippers interested in Francis?)*

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

This thread is the best one Ive seen in months!:lol:


----------



## Kapitalistsvin

*Re: Steve Francis bought out (Clippers interested in Francis?)*

Do we agree that all the Clippers are waiting for, is for Francis to clear waivers, and become FA on wednesday?

Source ESPN article, couple of days old... but it should be straight forward normal procedure.

Why is Francis rumoured to be earning 1 mill year one and 5 year two of a possible Clippers-deal? What would the reasoning be behind that, and is it even possible under the CBA? (Thought you could only increase/decrease by 20% per year!?)


----------



## hutcht02

*Re: Steve Francis bought out (Clippers interested in Francis?)*



Kapitalistsvin said:


> Do we agree that all the Clippers are waiting for, is for Francis to clear waivers, and become FA on wednesday?
> 
> Source ESPN article, couple of days old... but it should be straight forward normal procedure.
> 
> Why is Francis rumoured to be earning 1 mill year one and 5 year two of a possible Clippers-deal? What would the reasoning be behind that, and is it even possible under the CBA? (Thought you could only increase/decrease by 20% per year!?)


Yeah. I'm pretty sure everywhere else is just journalist speculation, but I'm actually liking the wait. Everybody else is maxing out their offseason credit cards and MLE's, and some people are making critical decisions that could land decent-name FA's right in our laps: CJ Miles? Andray Blatche? Mike Sweetney? Smush Parker? Chris Mihm? James Posey? Ruben Patterson? Ime Udoka? Jarvis Hayes? all of those guys are on teams who's rosters are overflowing right now. Some of them won't land the big number contract they deserve. Like the Bonzi Wells situation last year, they'll have to agree to smaller contracts than desired, and because of the wait on Francis, we'll be one of the teams that can offer that kind of contract when nobody else can. Expect us to get another large aquisition at somepoint later in the summer.


----------



## Kapitalistsvin

*Re: Steve Francis bought out (Clippers interested in Francis?)*

Francis and Wade would be redundant. Francis is a horrible fit in Houston, who needs PG with low TOs (Alston) and who can shoot (Mike James). Could they find that one player who gives both, then they'll go all in... but Francis gives neither.

Mavs could be a good fit, I'm sure they'd know to incorporate him, and Heat are crazy, they made Walker into an asset in the championship run... so either one of those two, or Clippers.

But Clippers would actually be a great fit, so I'll put my money on it.


----------



## TakingitbyStorm

*Re: Steve Francis bought out (Clippers interested in Francis?)*



Kapitalistsvin said:


> Why is Francis rumoured to be earning 1 mill year one and 5 year two of a possible Clippers-deal? What would the reasoning be behind that, and is it even possible under the CBA? (Thought you could only increase/decrease by 20% per year!?)


The reasoning behind that would be to leverage the MLE. We have more money coming off the books next summer and it would be to our benefit to structure a deal in this manner. 

As far as the CBA is concern, yes it is possible. You can frontload or backload a contract as long as the contractual agreement doesn't change. Basically the deal he is stating is a 6mil/2yr deal...as long as somewhere in those 2 years Francis gets his money it can be structured anyway both parties agree to.


----------



## Kapitalistsvin

*Re: Steve Francis bought out (Clippers interested in Francis?)*

6 mill on 2 years... that's a great deal for Clippers, and could prove to be the perfect desperation move (like Baron to Warriors).

Is it Wednesday that the Clippers can sign him?


----------



## hutcht02

*Re: Steve Francis bought out (Clippers interested in Francis?)*



Kapitalistsvin said:


> 6 mill on 2 years... that's a great deal for Clippers, and could prove to be the perfect desperation move (like Baron to Warriors).
> 
> Is it Wednesday that the Clippers can sign him?


That's only 1 mil. more than Hart made. Great deal. Some article said the middle of the week, so I think it's Wednesday, yes.


----------



## MickyEyez

*Re: Steve Francis bought out (Clippers interested in Francis?)*



bootstrenf said:


>


:lol: 
that's the best picture i've ever seen.

i can't even breathe right now....


----------



## bootstrenf

*Re: Steve Francis bought out (Clippers interested in Francis?)*


----------



## qross1fan

*Re: Steve Francis bought out (Clippers interested in Francis?)*

Tomorrow we will find out just what is up with Franchise as he will claim waivers


----------



## NOFX22

*Re: Steve Francis bought out (Clippers interested in Francis?)*

Nothing yet? I've read reports Miami is now intersted.


----------



## leidout

*Re: Steve Francis bought out (Clippers interested in Francis?)*

Well, wednesday is pretty much gone, i guess he's just lobbying for more money i guess (which will probably knock us out of the picture)


----------



## Weasel

*Re: Steve Francis bought out (Clippers interested in Francis?)*

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/4980460.html



> Jeff Fried said Francis had not reached any decision, able only to narrow his choice to the Rockets, Heat, Mavericks and Clippers. Fried said he would not be able to list them in an order of preference.





> "Financial considerations are not the primary focus," Fried said. "Fit is the most important criteria. He has a family now and is considering what is best for them.
> 
> "He's going to sleep on it."


----------



## MR. VADA

*Re: Steve Francis bought out (Clippers interested in Francis?)*

maaan, we better hope stevie doesn't know about this site...if he picks miami over us it gonna be our fault...what's up with brevin?...vada


----------



## yamaneko

*Re: Steve Francis bought out (Clippers interested in Francis?)*

Hearing different stories. First, that hes wants most money. well clippers would seem to be front runner. Then that he wants playing time, well clippers again front runners there as the other teams have less need for his position. Then i hear that he wants best fit, well his bosom body is on this team. Now were talking family, which id imagine perhaps houston being the right fit. Who knows what the truth is.


----------



## Kapitalistsvin

*Re: Steve Francis bought out (Clippers interested in Francis?)*

Come on Francis, come to L.A....

There is a big chance that Francis wouldn't flourish with Rockets and Heat, they both already have combo guards in Mike James and Wade, which could mess it up for Francis (like the Marbury, Fancis situation).


----------



## B_&_B

*Re: Steve Francis bought out (Clippers interested in Francis?)*

Francis chose Houston.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/bk/bkn/4982185.html#


----------



## yamaneko

*Re: Steve Francis bought out (Clippers interested in Francis?)*

HAHAHAHA, what bs about him wanting playing time and fit with the team, etc. He just wants to kick back at home. Cant wait to boo him like crazy when houston is in town.

Another step closer to OJ MAYO! WOO HOO


----------



## yamaneko

Lets see. Houston has Rafer Alston.

They TRADED for Mike James

They Have summer league superstar John Lucas

They have Bob Sura

They used their 1st rounder on Aaron Brooks

They have luther head.

And now they sign steve francis. And this after they got rid of spanoulis. This has got to set the record of most PGs on an NBA roster. This is on par or worse than getting thornton when we had all the SF's already. I dont know what houston is thinking, and i dont know what francis is thinking. 

Clippers are screwed. I dont want brevin knight. Their only hope now to get a starter level SG is if they can convince papolukas to come over.


----------



## leidout

Yep, great job clippers, so we could've drafted a guard and at least had a chance at a capable backup/starter. Now who's left? Knight? He hasn't shown any interest in the clips so far. 

Looks like we're going with Cassell + 10-day contract scrubs.


----------



## yamaneko

I dont want a PG who cant shoot, which is why i dont want knight. Lets dump mobley to the rockets for a few of their PG's. Mobley should have closed the deal for us.


----------



## rocketeer

yamaneko said:


> Lets see. Houston has Rafer Alston.
> 
> They TRADED for Mike James
> 
> They Have summer league superstar John Lucas
> 
> They have Bob Sura
> 
> They used their 1st rounder on Aaron Brooks
> 
> They have luther head.


the rockets don't have sura. or they do have sura, just he's never going to play again. his career was over two years ago.

still, i have no idea what the rockets are doing. having alston, james, francis, brooks, and lucas just doesn't make any sense. that's 5 pgs. and then head is an undersized shooting guard.


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## matador1238

We are really screwed. We didnt sign Hart, released Ewing, didnt draft a PG in the 1st round, lost out on Francis. We now have to make a trade or sign one of the following free agent PG, unless Dunleavy thinks Jordan, Diaz or Conroy can contribute immediately.....

Jeff McInnis
Brevin Knight
David Wesley
Eddie House
Earl Boykins
Jannero Pargo
Darrick Martin
Mike Wilks

Oh god......trade Maggette for Bibby please!!


----------



## Starbury03

Damm the clips are screwed now! With no francis and another decent back-up option was Diener who just signed with the Pacers.


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## Starbury03

Alston maybe available now. He is a decent point guard but I dont know what the Clippers would have to trade for him.


----------



## yamaneko

we could have traded for lucas jr. but we dumped singleton


----------



## Weasel

Fantastic.....


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## yamaneko

its time to make a huge run for something like a maggette williams for jack, webster, and pryzbilla deal.


----------



## qross1fan

Eh, we lose out on Francis, tough, we have to look forward now. Our current DC looks like this[only players under contract:]

PG: Sam Cassell | Shaun Livingston
SG: Cuttino Mobley | 
SF: Corey Maggette | Quinton Ross | Al Thornton | Yaroslav Korolev*
PF: Elton Brand | Tim Thomas
CE: Chris Kaman | Paul Davis | Aaron Williams

*= Agreement reached, not official yet

That's 12 players, and I'm not even sure if Conroy's option was picked up or declined. I say, we waive Williams/Conroy, sign Diaz along with Jordan, and then pickup Earl Boykins in Free Agency. That leaves us with one open spot, where we should ink a big man, and Danny Fortson would be nice in my opinion. Last year, a few times when Elton was on the bench and Chris was being soft, teams were able to drive in on us like nothing, Fortson will take care of that being the big bodied enforcer he is.....Depth Chart:

PG: Sam Cassell | Earl Boykins | Jared Jordan | Shaun Livingston
SG: Cuttino Mobley | Guillermo Diaz
SF: Corey Maggette | Quinton Ross | Al Thornton | Yaroslav Korolev
PF: Elton Brand | Tim Thomas | Danny Fortson
CE: Chris Kaman | Paul Davis |


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## bootstrenf

mother****er...


----------



## Free Arsenal

Let's just sign Jordan and have him run the team.


----------



## Weasel

I don't know what plan B is for the Clippers but one thing is for certain they player lock up the plan b player today. 

Other than Francis living in Houston it doesn't make much sense to sign there which really questions his motives. The Rockets have Alston, Head, James, Brooks, and Bonzi (who will play SG), where the hell is Francis going to play? I understand him not wanting to move his family but don't have you agent say you want good playing time after a move like that.


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## yamaneko

maybe his wife wasnt comfortable with him having sleep overs at mobleys anymore. Seriously you never know. How would you like to be married to someone that gets more press as being the BFF of another guy.


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## Free Arsenal

I think we'll be rewarded for this later. I don't know why, but not signing Francis has given us extra karma.

I still hope we sign Jordan and make him the PG of the team. I have a feeling if he's given adequate playing time in the beginning of the year he'll become an assist monster by the end of the year with us going on 22 game win streaks. It's just a hunch.

People say he's like Nash, but I feel he'll be better than Nash once he gets his shot.


----------



## john rambo

Free Arsenal said:


> I think we'll be rewarded for this later. I don't know why, but not signing Francis has given us extra karma.
> 
> I still hope we sign Jordan and make him the PG of the team. I have a feeling if he's given adequate playing time in the beginning of the year he'll become an assist monster by the end of the year with us going on *22 game win streaks*. It's just a hunch.
> 
> People say he's like Nash, but I feel he'll be better than Nash once he gets his shot.




:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## matador1238

Nash wasnt that good when he first played in the league.....I have faith in Jordan. YOU CAN DOOOO ITTTTTTT!!!


----------



## matador1238

yamaneko said:


> its time to make a huge run for something like a maggette williams for jack, webster, and pryzbilla deal.


This deal looks good to me. Does it work under cap?


----------



## yamaneko

Screwed over yet again. And im getting tired of other people comparing people to other sjust because of their color. Like people comparing budinger to guys like tom chambers, larry bird, etc. I can compare budinger's game to about 10 players, NONE of whom are white. Jordan also is no nash from what ive seen. (not even a poor mans nash). 

Francis i wish you the worst of luck in houston. He was our one shot at making the playoffs this year.


----------



## o.iatlhawksfan

livingston will come back, and have a better year than Francis.


----------



## yamaneko

yes, maggette and williams for jack pryzbilla and webster works out cap wise, and makes both teams better in the short and long term. Win win all the way around, which is why it wont happen. Clippers never make the moves that make sense.


----------



## OneBadLT123

I would be more then willing to send you guys some of our guards, but you dont have anything in return that we need. I nice PF/C combo would be great


----------



## NOFX22

Smush Parker will become a Clipper soon...


----------



## matador1238

OneBadLT123 said:


> I would be more then willing to send you guys some of our guards, but you dont have anything in return that we need. I nice PF/C combo would be great


Take A. William..... :yay:


----------



## TucsonClip

Another 3rd rate PG for the Clippers, great.


----------



## MR. VADA

man some of you guys are hopeless...we're still in a good position...francis did what some married men do...listen to their wives...that's what killed the deal...(oh, and all of our brokeback pictures and comments)...but let's be honest, how many of us really wanted stevie in the first place??? so don't feel bad about this, we still have options like...TRADING MAGGETTE...and yam, i like the sound of o.j. mayo on my sandwich too...except we'd have to have another below subpar year...that shouldn't be too hard...vada


----------



## Free Arsenal

Yama don't like Jordan cause he's white.
He likes Tabuse because he's Japanese...

Note this Yama, I remember when we signed Tabuse for the preseason a few years back and you were raving over the signing.

Jordan from what I've seen is a much better passer, now granted he didn't play very well at summer league, that's true. But consider this, his first season starting at Marist, the team was still on the lower end of the conference, and each year he got better making the team better every season.

Jared Jordan gets better as he gets used to his teammates and coach. You can't expect him to suddenly know where his team mates like to go in what... FIVE games of summer league.

Jordan is our savior.
If we sign him and start him, we will end up going on a 33 game win streak. Book it! (Uh, don't actually make a bet on this, I'm just being my exaggarated self).


----------



## leidout

Looks like we're forced to trade Maggette now, or sign a 10-day piece o' **** player.

Thing is, if we trade Maggette, then we're a worse team. We're not making the playoffs under any circumstances.


----------



## squeemu

leidout said:


> Thing is, if we trade Maggette, then we're a worse team. We're not making the playoffs under any circumstances.


Good Lord...
I think I'm going to have to stop reading these forums for a while. So many doomsayers and cry babies.


----------



## Free Arsenal

leidout said:


> Looks like we're forced to trade Maggette now, or sign a 10-day piece o' **** player.
> 
> Thing is, if we trade Maggette, then we're a worse team. We're not making the playoffs under any circumstances.


I say just don't sign anyone, and keep mags as a play maker. I wish we got Chris Paul.


----------



## Roscoe_Clipps

I believe in Jared.


----------



## Free Arsenal

Roscoe_Clipps said:


> I believe in Jared.


Yes, and so do I... I'm destroying my Daniel Ewing Fan Club.


----------



## qross1fan

squeemu said:


> Good Lord...
> I think I'm going to have to stop reading these forums for a while. So many doomsayers and cry babies.


I have to agree, we have too many pessimists here, no, your not being realistic, just a pessimist. Offseason isn't over, and sure, Blake, Hart and Francis are not available, but we still have a ways to go.

Aaron Williams to Phoenix for Marcus Bank could be a ok start.


----------



## leidout

qross1fan said:


> I have to agree, we have too many pessimists here, no, your not being realistic, just a pessimist. Offseason isn't over, and sure, Blake, Hart and Francis are not available, but we still have a ways to go.
> 
> Aaron Williams to Phoenix for Marcus Bank could be a ok start.


So um, what quality PG is available still? Knight? My original guess about him overpricing himself out of a contract early is proving true so far, but whenever he decides to drop the amount needed, will he choose the clippers? Maybe, maybe not, it's a bad gamble to take.

We're not newbies to the clippers here, the most likely thing to happen at this point is *no moves at all.* Except signing one or two summer league guys.

So with that said, with this current roster + summer league guys, what kind of record are we looking at in a Western conference that is loaded from 1-15??


----------



## Weasel

Ouch supposedly he narrowed down the list from 4 to 2 on Wednesday, the Clippers didn't make the 2 cut.


----------



## PorterIn2004

yamaneko said:


> yes, maggette and williams for jack pryzbilla and webster works out cap wise, and makes both teams better in the short and long term. Win win all the way around....


Blazers' fan here and while I'd much prefer Jack and Przybilla for Maggette, I'd be happy enough to swap Webster for Williams and a second round pick to make the deal work. And I agree it seems to make both teams better both short term and long. Honestly I'm amazed something like this didn't happen within hours of Francis signing with the Rockets.


----------



## MR. VADA

jared jordan is the latest great white hope...you guy's should be honest with yourselves. i watched all the summer league games and his passing did impress me but that where the impressions stopped. don't get me wrong i like j.j. too, but not enough to start a fan club for him...defense wins championships, and if you can't stop the ball you can't win. jj has no latteral movement and that's inherited like the quickness it takes to out run the police or something like that (haha)..."j.j. is our savior"...
please---jesus christ with a cross on his back is probably a better defender than j.j.(no offense)... if he was black you'd be complaining about how much he can't shoot,(unless it's a gun) and how he blows assignments on defense. but not with j.j., some of you are biased borderline racist like donald t. sterling...

besides mobley look at the last couple clipper signings: first big z. how many 7 ft. black guys with we'll documented heart problems have been signed to a 16 million dollar contract? how come we didn't let kaman test the free-agent market like brand and maggette before giving him 52 million? is he better than them? why was korolev drafted ahead of gerald green and danny granger? they are both better players that play defense. (granger hit 12 three's in a row at a clipper workout before the draft) 
why is korolev still on the roster when james singleton is clearly the better player? (singleton hit five three's too like korolev but he did it...in a real game) why did we draft paul davis? he's slow unathletic and has maybe an ounce of heart. (no energy, but i like him more than kaman). why was piatkowski the only clipper that sterling kept all those years? and this is the kicker, why did we give dumbleavy an extention when he single-handedly ruined the teams chemistry by not starting maggette? those can't all be just bad bussiness decisions...

i see a little favortisim in there. but it's up to you to be honest with yourself...

finaly, why not send j.j. overseas for one year (like they did diaz) to work on his overall game...the kid can't stick the tail on an a**, let alone a donkey. i got love for all of yaw but some of the things that some of you post are a little biased. diversity is what makes the spurs champs. not a bunch of unathletic white guys...vada


----------



## hutcht02

We're not in panic mode by any means. Jared Jordan is always an option. Earl Boykins, Keith McLeod and other PG's are still on tha market (some of which are better than B. Knight), There are a plethora of trades we can make, and if nothing else Sam gets extra PT, we add a back-up SG via free-agency who can help us with our outside shooting (like Sasha Pavlovic), and we just use Sam and J.J. until Livingston gets back. We're fine. Our PG situation really isn't as bad or desperate as everybody thinks, so lets only sign Brevin Knight if we need to, let's give Jared Jordan a good luck before we waste money on a FA that's worse, and let's add somebody else, maybe not a PG that can make our team better. Let's be positive guys.


----------



## yamaneko

> Yama don't like Jordan cause he's white.
> He likes Tabuse because he's Japanese...
> 
> Note this Yama, I remember when we signed Tabuse for the preseason a few years back and you were raving over the signing.


Youre kidding right? I dont like jordan because he has almost no shot at making the team. Dunleavvy has said it, baylor has said it. His defense just isnt close to being ready for the NBA. he also is in a similar situation to conroy in that he doesnt have enough offense either. Now, when youre talking third string PGs, then you bring other factors in, like A. is he at least a change of pace instant offense type PG like a boykins? Nope. B. Will he bring us a horde of new fans, and sell jerseys even if he never sees the court? Nope.

Tabuse was those things for this team. And look who we were comparing him to. It was Tabuse or Doug Freaking overton, who JUST LIKE i said would bomb and be cut anyway. Now, with jordan were talking jordan or conroy or gansey or Diaz. personally id go diaz, then gansey, THEN jordan. If this was 3 years ago and we had a choice of Overton or jordan, id pick jordan too.


----------



## yamaneko

At this point, with one PG who is old enough to be a grandfather, no of course were not making the playoffs. Even with francis it wasnt a lock, but at least we had better chance. Right now, we have no chance. Realism when you consider we havent improved from last year, and none of the teams except the lakers have regressed (who were ahead of us), and tons of teams below us have improved.

Lets see what the clippers do. I can almost guarnatee we will see something happen. No way to we enter training camp with cassell and a bunch of rookies as our only PG. I also dont think we enter training camp only with a overton type either. CLippers are going to make a move. Personally other than the Jarrett Jack trade, I dont see ANY other fesibly trade that could help us. With that jarret jack trade we just might get an 8 seed. ANything else, we are going to have to be the ones who come out way ahead in the trade.


----------



## MR. VADA

i like the jack trade too but to say we can't make the playoffs because a minor point guard issue is premature. the last month of the season we saw maggette and mobley do some incredible stuff distributing the ball. i think the clips are one of the most versatile teams and we showed that last year. i think we can make the playoffs with this roster, if we focus on defense like we did in 05-06. it's up to dumbleavy though. 

yeah some teams got better, but if CHRIS KAMAN decides to wake the **** up we will be a top ten team in this league again. what sence does it make to have a good point guard if he can't rely on his center to make an easy layup or dunk the ball...all our problems are witin the organization. i have faith in livingston returning being a smarter and stronger player, until then i think we can manage but i swear, if kaman dosen't play right, that's the only way i can see us not making the playoffs...vada


----------



## matador1238

MR. VADA said:


> i like the jack trade too but to say we can't make the playoffs because a minor point guard issue is premature. the last month of the season we saw maggette and mobley do some incredible stuff distributing the ball. i think the clips are one of the most versatile teams and we showed that last year. i think we can make the playoffs with this roster, if we focus on defense like we did in 05-06. it's up to dumbleavy though.
> 
> yeah some teams got better, but if CHRIS KAMAN decides to wake the **** up we will be a top ten team in this league again. what sence does it make to have a good point guard if he can't rely on his center to make an easy layup or dunk the ball...all our problems are witin the organization. i have faith in livingston returning being a smarter and stronger player, until then i think we can manage but i swear, if kaman dosen't play right, that's the only way i can see us not making the playoffs...vada



I think you are assuming Cassel will be healthy enough to play 82 games and at the same level when he first got here. I agree with you on Kaman. If he can make those layups, we are in much better shape.


----------



## Free Arsenal

Just watch. Jared Jordan will learn to play D.


----------



## Free Arsenal

yamaneko said:


> Tabuse was those things for this team. And look who we were comparing him to. It was Tabuse or Doug Freaking overton, who JUST LIKE i said would bomb and be cut anyway. .


Jersey sales or basketball team? Which is it?


----------



## Free Arsenal

MR. VADA said:


> jared jordan is the latest great white hope...you guy's should be honest with yourselves. i watched all the summer league games and his passing did impress me but that where the impressions stopped. don't get me wrong i like j.j. too, but not enough to start a fan club for him...defense wins championships, and if you can't stop the ball you can't win. jj has no latteral movement and that's inherited like the quickness it takes to out run the police or something like that (haha)..."j.j. is our savior"...
> please---jesus christ with a cross on his back is probably a better defender than j.j.(no offense)... if he was black you'd be complaining about how much he can't shoot,(unless it's a gun) and how he blows assignments on defense. but not with j.j., some of you are biased borderline racist like donald t. sterling...
> 
> besides mobley look at the last couple clipper signings: first big z. how many 7 ft. black guys with we'll documented heart problems have been signed to a 16 million dollar contract? how come we didn't let kaman test the free-agent market like brand and maggette before giving him 52 million? is he better than them? why was korolev drafted ahead of gerald green and danny granger? they are both better players that play defense. (granger hit 12 three's in a row at a clipper workout before the draft)
> why is korolev still on the roster when james singleton is clearly the better player? (singleton hit five three's too like korolev but he did it...in a real game) why did we draft paul davis? he's slow unathletic and has maybe an ounce of heart. (no energy, but i like him more than kaman). why was piatkowski the only clipper that sterling kept all those years? and this is the kicker, why did we give dumbleavy an extention when he single-handedly ruined the teams chemistry by not starting maggette? those can't all be just bad bussiness decisions...
> 
> i see a little favortisim in there. but it's up to you to be honest with yourself...
> 
> finaly, why not send j.j. overseas for one year (like they did diaz) to work on his overall game...the kid can't stick the tail on an a**, let alone a donkey. i got love for all of yaw but some of the things that some of you post are a little biased. diversity is what makes the spurs champs. not a bunch of unathletic white guys...vada


I think J.J, will probably be going overseas. I think clippers will probably sign Conroy this year. Depending on whether Brand stays or goes next season will decide whether Sofokilis is coming over or not.


Anyway, the only logical things I see the Clippers doing now is:

1. Maybe signing Brevin Knight.
2. Possibly trading Mags for a veteran PG like Earl Watson or Webster... they may even trade to the Rockets for one of their PG's, who knows.
3. Looking for a Euroleague PG and buying out his contract for him to come here... it'd have to be an undrafted one from a few years back though, which I don't see happening.

4. Cross your finger, sign J.J. and pray that he miraculously turns into Steve Nash with better defense (the Savior scenario).

True we could bring in Diaz or Conroy, but Diaz seems too much of a shooter. He also has a language problem. Don't get me wrong though, he's very athletic and talented, but a floor leader has to be able to communicate with his team. That's an absolute must... unless most of our players know Spanish.

Or we can just try and sell Jerseys and sign Tabuse again...


----------



## MR. VADA

Free Arsenal said:


> Just watch. Jared Jordan will learn to play D.


i think he will too but can we afford to have him play this year and get manhandeld on defense? teams are gonna pick and roll him into a blunt and smoke him after the game...shaun may not have his offensive game in order yet but he's not a liability on defense...vada


----------



## yamaneko

Kaman had very little to do with our demise last year. Kaman returning to 05/06 form will have very little to do with our next year. 

You do realize that kaman only went down by 1.8 points and 1.8 rebounds right? Brand went down 4.2 points and 0.7 rebounds. Cassell went down 5 points and 1.6 assists. Maggette went down 1 point. Mobley went down 1 point 1 rebound. Everyone had an off year, to single kaman out or to say that anything he by himself can do will actually mean big changes for the team is pretty crazy. 



> Jersey sales or basketball team? Which is it?


Which is what? What are you talking about? That statement doesnt really go with what you quoted from me.



> how many 7 ft. black guys with we'll documented heart problems have been signed to a 16 million dollar contract?


Um, the only 7 foot black guy with documented heart problems that i know of was signed for more than 50 million dollars. 



> jj has no latteral movement and that's inherited like the quickness it takes to out run the police or something like that (haha)..."j.j. is our savior"...
> please---jesus christ with a cross on his back is probably a better defender than j.j.(no offense)... if he was black you'd be complaining about how much he can't shoot,(unless it's a gun) and how he blows assignments on defense. but not with j.j., some of you are biased borderline racist like donald t. sterling...


Vada, most of this is inappropriate. Post something like this again, and it will be deleted instantly. 



> how come we didn't let kaman test the free-agent market like brand and maggette before giving him 52 million? is he better than them?


How long have you even been a clipper fan? You know its all about dunleavvy. The decision to let them test free agency was made the YEAR before dunleavvy came here. After dunleavvy came here he changed things, and he also wanted kaman signed before. To infer race has something to do with it is ludacris. 



> why was korolev drafted ahead of gerald green and danny granger?


Again, where have you been? You know that green and granger were slated to go top 5-7. The clippers first tried to promise antoine wright (black in case you didnt nkow) and were turned down by even him, who was rated as way worse than granger and green. So the clippers promised korolev thinking they were going to come up empty. Again, to even think that race has anything to do with that is craaaazy. 



> why is korolev still on the roster when james singleton is clearly the better player?


Because singleton = thornton. The question should be why did we draft thornton since we had singleton. Korolev was kept since he can play 1 and 2 as well. Why was thornton drafted, a black guy at a position we didnt need, when we could have had fernandez or bellineli, non black guys who play positions we need? Oh yeah, its because to say that the clippers are racist is stupid. 



> why did we draft paul davis?


Who knows, but you can be sure race had nothing to do with it. 



> why was piatkowski the only clipper that sterling kept all those years?


he was the only one who didnt ask for more money than he deserved. We also kept black loy vaught all those years until he started asking for more than he was worth. You are REALLY stretching to say that racism against blacks is involved with anything on the clippers. Like 90% of clippers the last 10 years have been black. Our GM is black. Get real.


----------



## joser

and you forgot to mention that maggette is DTS favorite player and he is black


----------



## yamaneko

haha, good point. But its even ridiculous to argue. There isnt a shred of evidence to even suggest there is racism anywhere in the clipper organization with the way player personell have been handled.


----------



## MR. VADA

yamaneko said:


> Kaman had very little to do with our demise last year. Kaman returning to 05/06 form will have very little to do with our next year.
> 
> You do realize that kaman only went down by 1.8 points and 1.8 rebounds right? Brand went down 4.2 points and 0.7 rebounds. Cassell went down 5 points and 1.6 assists. Maggette went down 1 point. Mobley went down 1 point 1 rebound. Everyone had an off year, to single kaman out or to say that anything he by himself can do will actually mean big changes for the team is pretty crazy.
> 
> 
> 
> Which is what? What are you talking about? That statement doesnt really go with what you quoted from me.
> 
> 
> 
> Um, the only 7 foot black guy with documented heart problems that i know of was signed for more than 50 million dollars.
> 
> 
> 
> Vada, most of this is inappropriate. Post something like this again, and it will be deleted instantly.
> 
> 
> 
> How long have you even been a clipper fan? You know its all about dunleavvy. The decision to let them test free agency was made the YEAR before dunleavvy came here. After dunleavvy came here he changed things, and he also wanted kaman signed before. To infer race has something to do with it is ludacris.
> 
> 
> 
> Again, where have you been? You know that green and granger were slated to go top 5-7. The clippers first tried to promise antoine wright (black in case you didnt nkow) and were turned down by even him, who was rated as way worse than granger and green. So the clippers promised korolev thinking they were going to come up empty. Again, to even think that race has anything to do with that is craaaazy.
> 
> 
> 
> Because singleton = thornton. The question should be why did we draft thornton since we had singleton. Korolev was kept since he can play 1 and 2 as well. Why was thornton drafted, a black guy at a position we didnt need, when we could have had fernandez or bellineli, non black guys who play positions we need? Oh yeah, its because to say that the clippers are racist is stupid.
> 
> 
> 
> Who knows, but you can be sure race had nothing to do with it.
> 
> 
> 
> he was the only one who didnt ask for more money than he deserved. We also kept black loy vaught all those years until he started asking for more than he was worth. You are REALLY stretching to say that racism against blacks is involved with anything on the clippers. Like 90% of clippers the last 10 years have been black. Our GM is black. Get real.


yam, you act like i care what you think. nobody likes the truth...that's why i said to be honest with your self...you can delete whatever you want. these are my opinons from a perspective that you can't relate to (the black man's perspective)...it all starts in the middle. if your center can't score, you can't win especialy in the playoffs...and all the stuff you posted is confirming what others already said about you, that your a donald sterling nut-hugger.

iv'e been a clipper and laker fan longer than you and probably longer than you've been in this country unless you we're born here. stop acting like you own this site...and don't ever question my knowledge of the game. why are you the only one who has a problem with what im saying? free speech big baby...you don't like what i say don't read it, like we do most of you s***. 

mind your biz yam...this stuff must be true since your so on the defensive...delete what you want. i'm still gonna voice my opinion. you should try being more asian and less white. did asians enslave black people and benifit from it? no they didn't, so who are you to criticize my perspective of a white bussiness man that has been accused of being openly discriminative of black people moving into one of his buildings?...i'm proud of who i am and i call it how i see it...im roughly two years older than you. how long have YOU been a clipper fan? i grew up in south central los angeles, i went to the games, not too far from my house since the 3rd and 4th grade!!! what's your history??? your a writer im a writer. my great great great great uncle was a writer...Frederick Douglass ever heard of him?...this is what i do...what tribe are you from???

and another thing...

i'm sick of people that act like it's not a problem with race relations in this country (yeah we kept loy vaught, but can you explain why we kept pike all those years? was it because he asked for less money to remain a clipper??? who would do that???... and i guess that discrimination suit aginst sterling was false too...I don't think i can get an apartment in an establishment owned by sterling when "KOREAN TOWERS" is on the front of the building in bold letters, but maybe you can...yaw dish it out, we accept it and adapt.

don't ever insult my intelligence...it's more to life than the clippers...im aware of everything you said, and i'm also aware that your the most obvious racist on this site...how many black friends do you have, one's that are not ashamed to be black? can you count them on one hand???...don't ever insult my intelligence...

plus, you didn't even wan't bellineli and who cares where green and granger we're slated, they were available and we didn't pick them. you sound stupid and like your trying to protect you asian-american heritage...stop contradicting your self...and i never said "racizim with blacks is involved" with anything for the clippers. your a liar. don't put words in my mouth...but how can i expect you to understand that???...look, honestly from my heart, i apologize to anyone of you who was offended by what i said i love all people, but when we act like problems don't exsist, we keep each other down...it's just my opinion, you don't have to like it but you should respect it like i do some of yours...vada

P.S.

and if you think racizim is not a problem world wide, get on XBOX LIVE...
iv'e been called a n**** on there almost as much as i do in the neighborhood...you know who


----------



## ElMarroAfamado

MR. VADA said:


> yam, you act like i care what you think. nobody likes the truth...that's why i said to be honest with your self...you can delete whatever you want. these are my opinons from a perspective that you can't relate to (the black man's perspective)...it all starts in the middle. if your center can't score, you can't win especialy in the playoffs...and all the stuff you posted is confirming what others already said about you, that your a donald sterling nut-hugger.
> 
> iv'e been a clipper and laker fan longer than you and probably longer than you've been in this country unless you we're born here. stop acting like you own this site...and don't ever question my knowledge of the game. why are you the only one who has a problem with what im saying? free speech big baby...you don't like what i say don't read it, like we do most of you s***.
> 
> mind your biz yam...this stuff must be true since your so on the defensive...delete what you want. i'm still gonna voice my opinion. you should try being more asian and less white. did asians enslave black people and benifit from it? no they didn't, so who are you to criticize my perspective of a white bussiness man that has been accused of being openly discriminative of black people moving into one of his buildings?...i'm proud of who i am and i call it how i see it...im roughly two years older than you. how long have YOU been a clipper fan? i grew up in south central los angeles, i went to the games, not too far from my house since the 3rd and 4th grade!!! what's your history??? your a writer im a writer. my great great great great uncle was a writer...Frederick Douglass ever heard of him?...this is what i do...what tribe are you from???
> 
> and another thing...
> 
> i'm sick of people that act like it's not a problem with race relations in this country (yeah we kept loy vaught, but can you explain why we kept pike all those years? was it because he asked for less money to remain a clipper??? who would do that???... and i guess that discrimination suit aginst sterling was false too...I don't think i can get an apartment in an establishment owned by sterling when "KOREAN TOWERS" is on the front of the building in bold letters, but maybe you can...yaw dish it out, we accept it and adapt.
> 
> your pearents probably owned a chain of liquor stores and beauty shops. exploiting black people and calling us n****z behind our backs...we probably paid your way through school...don't ever insult my intelligence...it's more to life than the clippers...im aware of everything you said, and i'm also aware that your the most obvious racist on this site...how many black friends do you have, one's that are not ashamed to be black? can you count them on one hand???...don't ever insult my intelligence...
> 
> plus, you didn't even wan't bellineli and who cares where green and granger we're slated, they were available and we didn't pick them. you sound stupid and like your trying to protect you asian-american heritage...stop contradicting your self...and i never said "racizim with blacks is involved" with anything for the clippers. your a liar. don't put words in my mouth...but how can i expect you to understand that???...look, honestly from my heart, i apologize to anyone of you who was offended by what i said i love all people, but when we act like problems don't exsist, we keep each other down...it's just my opinion, you don't have to like it but you should respect it like i do some of yours...vada
> 
> P.S.
> 
> and if you think racizim is not a problem world wide, get on XBOX LIVE...
> iv'e been called a n**** on there almost as much as i do in the neighborhood...you know who


EVERYONE IS RACIST 
and the ability to be racist anonymously just proves it, read blogs, discussion forums, WITH ANYTYPE OF BLACK OR HISPANIC RELATED NEWS ARTICLE and the comments will prove it.
it shouldnt really be surprising......


----------



## ElMarroAfamado

and by the way, if your white, (i dont know who is and is not) i doubt you have ever or will ever experience the type of racism a black person or hispanic person can go through in their lifetimes....


----------



## ElMarroAfamado

and that JOrdan PG they should just sign him to have Jordan on a CLippers jersey 


hahahahah


----------



## hutcht02

ElMarroAfamado said:


> and by the way, if your white, (i dont know who is and is not) i doubt you have ever or will ever experience the type of racism a black person or hispanic person can go through in their lifetimes....


Don't generalize unless you know man. I got rejected from my first job because the boss was black and didn't trust "pampered white boys" to do hard-work, so he rejected me. My varsity basketball coach kicked me off the team because we got a transfer from Detroit, never played organized basketball in his entire life, but coach wanted him ahead of me because he was black. I have been rejected from two local colleges because they don't have enough space to meet affirmative action requirements, and wouldn't recieve funding. Everybody's racist. I'm not complaining. Just telling, but always know that everybody's experienced it at some point and it goes both ways.


----------



## Free Arsenal

ElMarroAfamado said:


> and by the way, if your white, (i dont know who is and is not) i doubt you have ever or will ever experience the type of racism a black person or hispanic person can go through in their lifetimes....


Hey, us Asians also got lots of racist crap happening to us, you know what it's like when people use stereotypes about your manhood on you?

It pisses me off! Also, black and hispanic men have it easier with the girls than we do cause of all the media stereotyping and racism.

But I'll admit, the history shows that hispanics and blacks do have it worse politically and economically... but socially Asians, especially males, have it the worst.

But that's just my opinion, and I agree with you Vada.


----------



## Free Arsenal

hutcht02 said:


> Don't generalize unless you know man. I got rejected from my first job because the boss was black and didn't trust "pampered white boys" to do hard-work, so he rejected me. My varsity basketball coach kicked me off the team because we got a transfer from Detroit, never played organized basketball in his entire life, but coach wanted him ahead of me because he was black. I have been rejected from two local colleges because they don't have enough space to meet affirmative action requirements, and wouldn't recieve funding. Everybody's racist. I'm not complaining. Just telling, but always know that everybody's experienced it at some point and it goes both ways.


Racism and racial stereotypes are always going to be a problem, it'll never go away.

At least until we all become Goobacks like on south park.


----------



## yamaneko

> yam, you act like i care what you think. nobody likes the truth...that's why i said to be honest with your self...you can delete whatever you want. these are my opinons from a perspective that you can't relate to (the black man's perspective)...it all starts in the middle. if your center can't score, you can't win especialy in the playoffs...and all the stuff you posted is confirming what others already said about you, that your a donald sterling nut-hugger.


No, i act like im the moderator on this board who is here to enforce the rules, and thats what im going to do. i could care less if you "care", if you dont like the rules, then take it somewhere else. You singlehandedly the last few weeks have been bringing down the quality of the board with first your clutter of new threads on topics that already there were threads on, your ****(astrick) laced tirades, and your over all tone that is not on the maturity level of everyone else. Most of it is borderline, and thus not deleted right away. But what i had quoted above, is going a little overboard, regardless of if you were joking....talking about "inherited quickness from outrunning police,", using inappropriate religiuos references, "jesus christ on a cross," and youre accusing people of being racist here on this board. With that paragraph there, you crossed the line. I gave you a warning, end of story. Theres no such thing as someone from a black mans perspective has the right to use that kind of language, or make those kind of accusation. Theres right, and theres wrong. That was wrong. 

As far as your other part there about kaman, Kaman in his off year was still one of the best true centers in the game last year statistically. Theres no denying that fact. Theres also no denying the fact that many teams who made the playoffs didnt even have a true center. Theres also no denying the fact that kaman's drop off wasnt as bad as many other clippers drop offs, so to put the blame on him for the teams success would not be correct. Now i dont know how you went from my moderation to kaman, to donald sterling in one paragraph, but on your last point, so what if i like donald sterling? I admire him and the way he ran this organization. He never overpaid stiffs, he seemed to always know when a guy used up his usability, if we did bad, we still always had hope for the next year since he wouldnt be overpaying guys, using up our salary cap. Now dunleavvy comes along, and look at us. We still suck, yet now theres no hope since were capped out. Its hard to argue that the old sterling way would have us in a worse situation.


----------



## yamaneko

> iv'e been a clipper and laker fan longer than you and probably longer than you've been in this country unless you we're born here. stop acting like you own this site...and don't ever question my knowledge of the game. why are you the only one who has a problem with what im saying? free speech big baby...you don't like what i say don't read it, like we do most of you s***.


I could care less how long you have been a clipper fan. Longer than 20 years (been one since i was 8)? Good for you. I dont question your basketball knowledge, but i will call you out if you post WRONG information like you did. If you dont agree with me, bring on the debate, im more than happy to go into detail. Im not going to call someone out as wrong and then not back it up with factual information. I dont act like i own this site, i act like the moderator which is what I am. if youre unaware of things that are against the rules, click on FAQ up above and read the board rules. I dont like most of what you say. But i still have to read it, because thats my job as a moderator, to make sure it doesnt go against the rules. So if you post stuff that does go against the rules, dang straight it will be edited, deleted, or youll be warned.


----------



## yamaneko

> mind your biz yam...this stuff must be true since your so on the defensive...delete what you want. i'm still gonna voice my opinion. you should try being more asian and less white. did asians enslave black people and benifit from it? no they didn't, so who are you to criticize my perspective of a white bussiness man that has been accused of being openly discriminative of black people moving into one of his buildings?...


Again, as a moderator everything posted in this clipper board is my business. Perspective means nothing in this regard. Every single accusation you made above was completely off base, and i cut everyone down. Deal with it. If you want to come back on it, put some facts like I did. Like how most clipper players the last decade have been black. Of how it was dunleavvy who pushed him to sign kaman early, had nothing to do with race, since dunleavvy wasnt around when the brand and maggette contracts came up. You asked about when a black 7 foot center with heart problems had been signed, and i mentioned someone who got a contract 10X as much as rebraca. And the rest of what I wrote was facts as well. Facts are facts, it has nothing to do with perspective. Just becuase youre a certain race, that doesnt allow you to twist the facts. If you want to say that sterling (like almost every other major land lord in california) was ACCUSED of discrimination, thats fine. Its a FACT that he was accused (not convicted, but thats another story). You see, nothing wrong with saying a fact like that. But when you turn around and try to put off as fact things like the clippers picked korolev over granger because of race (not a fact, not even a rumor), when its a fact that it had nothing to do with it, then thats wrong.


----------



## yamaneko

> i'm proud of who i am and i call it how i see it...im roughly two years older than you. how long have YOU been a clipper fan?


I asked how long you have been a clipper fan becuase, from your post you seemed like a person who had no idea about really basic things that most real clipper fans know. Like how it was dunleavvy who wanted kaman signed early. How the clippers had promised korolev before, and the reason why. Almost everyone on this board and other clipper boards who have been around for 3+ years know these facts. However, if you were a new clipper fan, like the new guys we have here because of thornton and jordan, then i could see how you might not have known those things. But if you have been a clipper fan for 20 years, i dont know how you missed those facts.



> your a writer im a writer. my great great great great uncle was a writer...Frederick Douglass ever heard of him?...this is what i do...what tribe are you from???


And what in the world does this have to do with anything? I thought we were talking about the clippers being racist suppoesdly?



> (yeah we kept loy vaught, but can you explain why we kept pike all those years? was it because he asked for less money to remain a clipper??? who would do that???...


Why do we even need to explain why someone was kept? He was kept because he was a decent player, and he was being paid what he deserved. So was loy vaught up until he got greedy. And theres nothing wrong with being greedy, if i remember correctly he was given an outlandish contract by detroit or whatever team signed him, that i would have been appalled if we had given him. Sure enough he didnt come close to earning it, averaging about 2-3 points a game with them. 



> and i guess that discrimination suit aginst sterling was false too...


so now were not talking about basketball anymore i guess. We will never know if its false since it never got tried to verdict. But using my OPINION, not fact, Id say some of those things they accused him of was true, since i see it in almost every ethnic neighborhood around. landlords cater to certain ethnic groups since many ethnic groups prefer to stay together and have them as neighbors. Im not saying its right, but its a sad fact of the society we live in. Everyone who does that, i dont think they are racist. Theyre just trying to make a buck by keeping their tennants happy. Still, doesnt make it right. But certainly doesnt make them racist. 



> and i'm also aware that your the most obvious racist on this site...how many black friends do you have, one's that are not ashamed to be black? can you count them on one hand???...don't ever insult my intelligence...


The first part of your paragraph i deleted since again you crossed the line. You crossed the line here too by calling my racist, but ill allow it just so that others can see part of how overboard you are, and how off base you are. What have i ever said to infer that I am racist against blacks? That is insane. Id say i have had one person in childhood/teenage years i could call my "best friend", he was black. My current friends here in LA, 1 mexican, 3 black, 1 asian. Im looking at my bebo page, and here is the racial breakdown: 13 Latinos, 6 black, 2 asian, 4 white. For you to call me racist against black or anyone else is downright hilarious. 



> plus, you didn't even wan't bellineli and who cares where green and granger we're slated, they were available and we didn't pick them.


Right..i wanted NICK YOUNG or STUCKEY, black players BEFORE bellineli. But i wanted bellineli over thornton for sure. And again, you make a statement that makes it seem like youre a newbie clipper fan. Everyone knows by now that the clippers had promised korolev. They could not go back on the promise. Had nothing to do with race. if race had an issue with it, why did they FIRST try to promise antoione wright, who is black?


----------



## yamaneko

> you sound stupid and like your trying to protect you asian-american heritage...stop contradicting your self...and i never said "racizim with blacks is involved" with anything for the clippers. your a liar. don't put words in my mouth...but how can i expect you to understand that???..


I sound stupid because i post facts? Interesting how that works. And what have i said here that makes me sound like im trying to protect my asian american heritage? What of my asian american heritage needs protecting? Ive never contradicted myself in this thread. Im not putting words in your mouth. Thats why i quoted everything you said. You made inference after inference that certain white players were getting preference over black ones, and certain black ones were wronged over whites. Thats what you said, you cant go back on it now. 



> but when we act like problems don't exsist, we keep each other down...it's just my opinion, you don't have to like it but you should respect it like i do some of yours...vada


Who is acting like problems dont exist? have i said racism doesnt exist in the world? No. But just because racism exists, doesnt mean the clippers are guilty of it. Theres NOTHING that you posted that would even infer that the clippers have racial problems. If you want to talk about racism in the world in general, thats a whole nother off topic post. No one is denying racism exists.


----------



## MR. VADA

yamaneko said:


> Again, as a moderator everything posted in this clipper board is my business. Perspective means nothing in this regard. Every single accusation you made above was completely off base, and i cut everyone down. Deal with it. If you want to come back on it, put some facts like I did. Like how most clipper players the last decade have been black. Of how it was dunleavvy who pushed him to sign kaman early, had nothing to do with race, since dunleavvy wasnt around when the brand and maggette contracts came up. You asked about when a black 7 foot center with heart problems had been signed, and i mentioned someone who got a contract 10X as much as rebraca. And the rest of what I wrote was facts as well. Facts are facts, it has nothing to do with perspective. Just becuase youre a certain race, that doesnt allow you to twist the facts. If you want to say that sterling (like almost every other major land lord in california) was ACCUSED of discrimination, thats fine. Its a FACT that he was accused (not convicted, but thats another story). You see, nothing wrong with saying a fact like that. But when you turn around and try to put off as fact things like the clippers picked korolev over granger because of race (not a fact, not even a rumor), when its a fact that it had nothing to do with it, then thats wrong.


first off, you still are looking at it through blinders, tunnel-vision, and i expect that from you...second 80 or more percent of damn near all players in the nba are black. (as recently noted by Andrew Biggot of the Bucks) ofcourse most the players in the last ten years on every team in the nba have been black...so what's you point??? no team in the nba is all white, black, mexican or all asian. now that's a fact. so to even say that most of the players we had over the last ten years are black is childish and petty and a little sarcastic. stop reaching. whenever black people mention race as a factor in anything, people like you jump way on the defensive because you feel guilty of it...

that said, when we got dumbleavy in 2003, we drafted kaman and sofo after that. if he wasn't our coach before brand and maggette contracts came up i can't remember, but i'm sure he was talking to the team and wouldn't have took the job unless they kept brand and maggette. so he probably was around or at least on sterlings mind. but we did have dumbleavy before we drafted kaman and sofo, i remember the day and where i was at and who i was talking to about that. stop reaching. 


and who's this black player with the heart problem that got a big contract? you still haven't said his name or who he played for. also if this is true im positive that it wasn't as serious as big z's. 


everything else you said is your opinion. i shot two big bullet holes through your facts...vada


----------



## yamaneko

> first off, you still are looking at it through blinders, tunnel-vision, and i expect that from you...second 80 or more percent of damn near all players in the nba are black. (as recently noted by Andrew Biggot of the Bucks) ofcourse most the players in the last ten years on every team in the nba have been black...so what's you point???


Whats YOUR point? Who cares about the rest of the league. If a team is racist, theyr racist. Youre saying the clippers make moves based on race. If thats the case, it would be illogical for them to have almost all black players the last 10 years. Take the mexican soccer league. Each team is allowed to have some foreigners. But CD Guadalajara, says, hey we dont need anyone but mexicans. So they havent had a non mexican player on their roster in who knows how long. THATS irrefutably proof that they are biased toward mexicans (or against non mexicans). Theres nothing like that kind of proof on the clippers, especially when they have had at times a roster 100% made up of blacks. 



> no team in the nba is all white, black, mexican or all asian. now that's a fact. so to even say that most of the players we had over the last ten years are black is childish and petty and a little sarcastic. stop reaching. whenever black people mention race as a factor in anything, people like you jump way on the defensive because you feel guilty of it...


Guess what, youre making MY point. Im saying that there isnt this blatant racism that you say is so "obvious." How is it childish? If anything is childish, its you trying to infer the clippers are making decisisions based on race, when they have had the same if not more percentage of black players as any other team in the league. Im not defending anything, im not feeling guilty about anything. Im just stating facts, and refuting your perposterous accusations. Clippers picked korolev over granger and green because he was white. Get real. Clippers extended kaman because he was white. give me a break. Piatkowski had a long tenure because he was white, good grief. Forget that the clippers have had the longest running black GM in all of sports, that their biggest free agent salaries have been given to black players, forget that theres no proof of all of racism with the clippers dealings...thats the world you seem to be living in. 



> that said, when we got dumbleavy in 2003, we drafted kaman and sofo after that. if he wasn't our coach before brand and maggette contracts came up i can't remember, but i'm sure he was talking to the team and wouldn't have took the job unless they kept brand and maggette. so he probably was around or at least on sterlings mind. but we did have dumbleavy before we drafted kaman and sofo, i remember the day and where i was at and who i was talking to about that. stop reaching.


When the decision was made to let brand and maggette test the market the following year, dunleavvy was not the coach. Thats not a reach, thats a fact. So, your pevious claim to compare the decision not to let kaman test the market to the decision to let brand and maggette do it is completely moot. it was dunleavvys pet project to get kaman signed first, but dunleavvy had nothing to do with the decision to let brand/maggette test the market. Youre comparing apples and oranges. Im the one reaching? How so?



> and who's this black player with the heart problem that got a big contract? you still haven't said his name or who he played for. also if this is true im positive that it wasn't as serious as big z's.


Do you follow much basketball? Ever hear of eddy curry? 



> everything else you said is your opinion. i shot two big bullet holes through your facts...vada


You didnt make any holes in facts. Thats the thing about facts, you cant refute them. And what else did i say was my opinion not fact?


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## MR. VADA

yamaneko said:


> I asked how long you have been a clipper fan becuase, from your post you seemed like a person who had no idea about really basic things that most real clipper fans know. Like how it was dunleavvy who wanted kaman signed early. How the clippers had promised korolev before, and the reason why. Almost everyone on this board and other clipper boards who have been around for 3+ years know these facts. However, if you were a new clipper fan, like the new guys we have here because of thornton and jordan, then i could see how you might not have known those things. But if you have been a clipper fan for 20 years, i dont know how you missed those facts.
> 
> 
> 
> And what in the world does this have to do with anything? I thought we were talking about the clippers being racist suppoesdly?
> 
> 
> 
> Why do we even need to explain why someone was kept? He was kept because he was a decent player, and he was being paid what he deserved. So was loy vaught up until he got greedy. And theres nothing wrong with being greedy, if i remember correctly he was given an outlandish contract by detroit or whatever team signed him, that i would have been appalled if we had given him. Sure enough he didnt come close to earning it, averaging about 2-3 points a game with them.
> 
> 
> 
> so now were not talking about basketball anymore i guess. We will never know if its false since it never got tried to verdict. But using my OPINION, not fact, Id say some of those things they accused him of was true, since i see it in almost every ethnic neighborhood around. landlords cater to certain ethnic groups since many ethnic groups prefer to stay together and have them as neighbors. Im not saying its right, but its a sad fact of the society we live in. Everyone who does that, i dont think they are racist. Theyre just trying to make a buck by keeping their tennants happy. Still, doesnt make it right. But certainly doesnt make them racist.
> 
> 
> 
> The first part of your paragraph i deleted since again you crossed the line. You crossed the line here too by calling my racist, but ill allow it just so that others can see part of how overboard you are, and how off base you are. What have i ever said to infer that I am racist against blacks? That is insane. Id say i have had one person in childhood/teenage years i could call my "best friend", he was black. My current friends here in LA, 1 mexican, 3 black, 1 asian. Im looking at my bebo page, and here is the racial breakdown: 13 Latinos, 6 black, 2 asian, 4 white. For you to call me racist against black or anyone else is downright hilarious.
> 
> 
> 
> Right..i wanted NICK YOUNG or STUCKEY, black players BEFORE bellineli. But i wanted bellineli over thornton for sure. And again, you make a statement that makes it seem like youre a newbie clipper fan. Everyone knows by now that the clippers had promised korolev. They could not go back on the promise. Had nothing to do with race. if race had an issue with it, why did they FIRST try to promise antoione wright, who is black?


i've been a fan for more than 20 years. i've been on this site since '03,
i became a member in 2006, and i've read all of your posts since 2003, so i know who your are and about all the moves we made and all of that stuff. your not the only one who follows the clips. i'm very aware of anything that's clipper news and there you go again trying to insult my intelligence. "i can see why you might not have known these things." i know and knew all those things, but i'm still allowed to form my own opinion. there you go yam, some more facts for you to play with...vada

oh, and i never said that the clippers were racist, you did. stop trying to put words in my mouth...you know who


----------



## MR. VADA

im bout to get on the xbox, i proved my points. 

yeah, eddie curry slipped my mind, but like i said his problem was nowhere as serious as big z's, and he hasn't been having problems and i think he's a little bit better than big z, maybe that's why the gave him a big contract. so what's your point?

oh, and elgin baylor is a "token" black gm. sterling uses him as a front to cover his racizim...but since your slightly racist, i wouldn't expect you to understand that...vada


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## leidout

:stupid: :spam::stupid: :spam::stupid: :spam::stupid: :spam:

This thread is officially crapped.

Ok, i didn't read a single word on this entire page, but stop encouraging eachother.


----------



## yamaneko

> i'm very aware of anything that's clipper news and there you go again trying to insult my intelligence. "i can see why you might not have known these things." i know and knew all those things, but i'm still allowed to form my own opinion. there you go yam, some more facts for you to play with...vada


what is wrong with you? You are serious about contradicting yourself like that? You admit you know facts, but you said you still are allowed to disregard them when it suits you? Seriously, thats your argument? 'yeah, who cares if the clippers promised korolev, i still say they picked him because hes white and granger is black...' Get real. 



> oh, and i never said that the clippers were racist, you did. stop trying to put words in my mouth...you know who


Yes, you have been saying it ever since page 9 or so. When you say "everyone" is racist, and say that the clippers favor certain players because of race, and keep going on and on about it, guess what, youre accusing someone of being racist. 



> im bout to get on the xbox, i proved my points.


hahahaha. Name me ONE point you proved? Other than you have decided that you can decide when to ignore facts when it suits you. Hilarious. 



> yeah, eddie curry slipped my mind, but like i said his problem was nowhere as serious as big z's, and he hasn't been having problems and i think he's a little bit better than big z, maybe that's why the gave him a big contract. so what's your point?


So i guess youre a heart expert now and know what is serious and not. ANd the reason that rebraca never played last year was his heart? Hey, I had no point...if you recall, all I was doing was answering your question of "what 7 foot black guy has been given a contract after he had documented heart problems.' I thought it quite hilarious that the question could be answered so easily. 



> oh, and elgin baylor is a "token" black gm. sterling uses him as a front to cover his racizim...but since your slightly racist, i wouldn't expect you to understand that...vada


Yeah, once again nonsense coming out of your mouth. Everyone can have opinions, but this is just downright ludicris when you say things like this that there is absolutely no proof of. You sound like the conspiricy theorists who talk about september 11 being government plots, and how planes really didnt crash into pentagon, etc. And then again you accuse me of now being "slightly" racist after saying before i was the most racist person on the board or something to that effect. Hilarious.

Well, I think this round of battle yamaneko has resulted in a 100-0 victory since ive worked almost everything you have said, and you have now just succumbed to baseless accusations, and saying you can change facts when it suits you. So, lets get back on topic of francis, but if youd like to continue debating something, start a new thread...it is fun when its this easy...


----------



## DaFranchise

If we REALLY picked Korolev over Granger because of his color then I want nothing to do with the Organization. I highly doubt that's true and that is MAJOR ACCUSATION. I would like to see some hard evidence before making such a statement.


----------



## Free Arsenal

DaFranchise said:


> If we REALLY picked Korolev over Granger because of his color then I want nothing to do with the Organization. I highly doubt that's true and that is MAJOR ACCUSATION. I would like to see some hard evidence before making such a statement.


I thought we picked Korolev because Mike thought he was a "point forward" and made a promise. Granger is a great Small Forward but his ball handling isn't said to be as good.


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## MR. VADA

i said what i have to say. you can screw drive it as much as you want yam but i know what i'm talking about. so im going to be the adult here and drop this cause it's obvious you can't stand to be wrong about anything...

also, to everyone else on the planet earth that happend to read this and witness yam, the defense attorney for the clippers put me in my place, (please) i apologize to you, and thank you for not arguing with me over my opinions. this is not why i'm on this site, i really love the clippers but i won't allow anyone with a biased opinion to discredit what i say. you don't have to agree but try to have an open mind...reguardless of what you think yam, it's a lot of people of different colors, even your own, who would agree with me...you didn't prove s***, other than your a relentless know it all that dosen't know it all...

do you like "real" hip-hop yam??? if you do i'll drop some of that real s*** on you...my s***. if your interseted, gimme your e-mail, maybe it could help you further understand how biased you come across...
and why are the things i type so offensive???
(i can understand the jesus thing, but jj really can't play d.) alot of it is honest ghetto humor. i'm not from or near oceanside so how should i come across to not offend the mighty yam?????? what i am is diverse, and i'll show you if you want to hear some real s***. no, im not gangsta, i'm just real...and i don't take everything for face value like you do. you twisted and misinterpeted so many things i said that it's not even worth debating with you anymore...if anybody with an open mind cares to look over that mess over the last couple of pages, i hope you see that im just stating my opinion or imo like everyone else does...


lastly, on some non-clipper s*** since WWII when they dropped the bomb in japan, how many asian-korean or japaneese families have been given money to start a businesses in the U.S.??? also of whatever number you come with, how many of them own liquor stores, little markets, beauty supply shops, pawn shops, black people chicken shops like Golden Bird, chineese food shops, swapmeets, automotive shops etc...all located in the......... hood!!!!!!????????????????????????????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!????????? 


finaly, and i mean finaly, how many black people who like myself, are decendents of slaves, have received reparations for the torment and crulety we went through and still go through... 0. that's a fact. 
we built this country for free. free labor, and all we get is scrutiny for "the way we are" from the people who made us the way we are in "america" and from people like you, who don't realize or care that we get treated like s*** on a daily basis. how many times have you been pulled over in the last couple months cause you were asian...you need to listen to yourself man. i know what i sound like but you don't know yam, you really don't know...

im done with this...

"it waz over when u lost yo composure"...it's strictly clippers on mine, and im'a speak my mind...i'll just try to keep it clean for all the kiddies who read this stuff we type...vada


----------



## MR. VADA

DaFranchise said:


> If we REALLY picked Korolev over Granger because of his color then I want nothing to do with the Organization. I highly doubt that's true and that is MAJOR ACCUSATION. I would like to see some hard evidence before making such a statement.


Da Franchise, I NEVER SAID THAT...yam took every thing i said out of proportion and ran with it. the comments that i made that started this we're just speculation from a person familiar with disrimination (maybe your not and i don't fault you) and a person familiar with the owners history and present. i never said they picked korolev over granger because of his color.!?! yam said all that trying to shoot down my credibility...are you telling me the clipper's scouting is that bad???? what could they have possibly not liked from granger or green? but for me to come out and say the clippers are racist---because the owner is---is a misconstruction of everything i said. the clippers are everybody's team. they're not just for people like you who talk like you...everything i said was imo...see all the confusion you cause yam?...vada


----------



## MR. VADA

yamaneko said:


> what is wrong with you? You are serious about contradicting yourself like that? You admit you know facts, but you said you still are allowed to disregard them when it suits you? Seriously, thats your argument? 'yeah, who cares if the clippers promised korolev, i still say they picked him because hes white and granger is black...' Get real.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, you have been saying it ever since page 9 or so. When you say "everyone" is racist, and say that the clippers favor certain players because of race, and keep going on and on about it, guess what, youre accusing someone of being racist.
> 
> 
> 
> hahahaha. Name me ONE point you proved? Other than you have decided that you can decide when to ignore facts when it suits you. Hilarious.
> 
> 
> 
> So i guess youre a heart expert now and know what is serious and not. ANd the reason that rebraca never played last year was his heart? Hey, I had no point...if you recall, all I was doing was answering your question of "what 7 foot black guy has been given a contract after he had documented heart problems.' I thought it quite hilarious that the question could be answered so easily.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, once again nonsense coming out of your mouth. Everyone can have opinions, but this is just downright ludicris when you say things like this that there is absolutely no proof of. You sound like the conspiricy theorists who talk about september 11 being government plots, and how planes really didnt crash into pentagon, etc. And then again you accuse me of now being "slightly" racist after saying before i was the most racist person on the board or something to that effect. Hilarious.
> 
> Well, I think this round of battle yamaneko has resulted in a 100-0 victory since ive worked almost everything you have said, and you have now just succumbed to baseless accusations, and saying you can change facts when it suits you. So, lets get back on topic of francis, but if youd like to continue debating something, start a new thread...it is fun when its this easy...


you really don't belive that the government had something to do with 911??? damn, then i can't tell you s***. maybe that's why i said something about your asian-american heritage...you'll believe anything...oh, and trust me, it's more to the falling stars that you see at night...where do you think we get all this technology that allows me to digitaly clown your a**!???!
if you wanna know more, hit me up...vada


----------



## ElMarroAfamado

Free Arsenal said:


> Hey, us Asians also got lots of racist crap happening to us, you know what it's like when people use stereotypes about your manhood on you?
> 
> It pisses me off! Also, black and hispanic men have it easier with the girls than we do cause of all the media stereotyping and racism.
> 
> But I'll admit, the history shows that hispanics and blacks do have it worse politically and economically... but socially Asians, especially males, have it the worst.
> 
> But that's just my opinion, and I agree with you Vada.


true, but its just that its the most blatant and hurtful when its done to hispanics and black in my opinion....i mean for asians, whats the stereotype you hear "all asians are smart" ? ? ? 
id be happy to fall victim to that stereotype


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## ElMarroAfamado

aaaah !! what not signing Steve Francis has done to this board!!!

hahahha


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## Free Arsenal

ElMarroAfamado said:


> true, but its just that its the most blatant and hurtful when its done to hispanics and black in my opinion....i mean for asians, whats the stereotype you hear "all asians are smart" ? ? ?
> id be happy to fall victim to that stereotype


You think that's the "Only stereotype"?

I've been freaking insulted as having a small... just because I'm asian. And all the stuff about "Asians suck at sports" or "Asians are wimpy" "Asians wear glasses and study all the time."

There's tons of negative crap for Asians. Also, affirmative action hurts us. It's harder for me to get into a University than a white person because of Afrimative action.


----------



## MR. VADA

ElMarroAfamado said:


> aaaah !! what not signing Steve Francis has done to this board!!!
> 
> hahahha


that's the funniest 'ish i heard all day...vada


----------



## yamaneko

> i said what i have to say. you can screw drive it as much as you want yam but i know what i'm talking about. so im going to be the adult here and drop this cause it's obvious you can't stand to be wrong about anything...


Finally you admit defeat. 



> you don't have to agree but try to have an open mind...reguardless of what you think yam, it's a lot of people of different colors, even your own, who would agree with me...you didn't prove s***, other than your a relentless know it all that dosen't know it all...


Its one thing to have an open mind. Its another thing to (as others have mentioned) To accuse an organization of making decisions based on racial bias with jack squat as proof. I dont think there is anyone on this board who would make the same accusations as you did, regardless of color. Why? Because bottom line is theres no proof nor even a hint of it. I didnt prove anything, all I did was state facts to correct your erroneous accusations. 



> i'm not from or near oceanside so how should i come across to not offend the mighty yam??????


I live in wilmington, but thats besides the point. Im not here to edit posts that personally offend me. There are things that personally offend me that I do not edit because theyre not technically against the rules. However racial sterotyping and religious references, and other things that COULD offend others I have to edit wether it offends me or not. 



> how many times have you been pulled over in the last couple months cause you were asian...you need to listen to yourself man. i know what i sound like but you don't know yam, you really don't know...


You do realize that asians with "fast and furious" cars are pulled over all the time just because they think they have illegal things done to their car. But youre right, thats totally besides the point, so why are you bringing it up. I listen to myself all the time in this thread, and there is nothing i have said that remotely hints that i somehow dont know that racism exists, or that somehow i am a racist myself. Its actually the complete opposite if you would read what i am writing. 



> Da Franchise, I NEVER SAID THAT...yam took every thing i said out of proportion and ran with it. the


Yes you did. You totally inferred it, in a long diatrabe talking about the clippers making decisions on pike, rebraca, korolev, brand, maggette, etc. etc. based on color. Dont try to back out on it now unless you want to openly admit it was wrong for you to even hint at racism in those moves. 

Anyway like i said, if you want to debate more on it start another thread.

Back on topic. Im still pissed at steve francis. Pissed pissed pissed. Lets get rid of mobley now. lol. He could have made himself very useful in this situation and didnt close the deal for us!


----------



## qross1fan

Ok, let's get back on subject here. Sure, we lost on Franchise, but here are the list of remaining PG's[Via Free Agency, Listing ALL PG's]:

Royal Ivey - Should not be a starter, but won't be a horrible backup, mainly as we can ink him for the minumum. 

Jeff Mcinnis - Was already once a Clipper, and again, won't be a horrible backup. Won't mind him at all, but if we can't ink Boykins/Knight

Will Blalock - Would be just another project, stay away from him as we can just sign Conroy to be the project. 

Keith McLeod - Won't be a bad fit at all.

Smush Parker - Let's stay away from Smush, just stay the hell away from him.

Gary Payton - Would be awesome in my opinion, if not for playing reasons, as him and Sammy would be mouthing off 24/7.

Jannero Pargo - Won't mind him if the price is right.

Charlie Bell - RFA, and is more of a 2guard, but he can handle the ball.

Eddie House - Some consider him to be a point, I really don't, but he could be the shooter we need handling the ball.


----------



## leidout

qross1fan said:


> Ok, let's get back on subject here. Sure, we lost on Franchise, but here are the list of remaining PG's[Via Free Agency, Listing ALL PG's]:
> 
> Royal Ivey - Should not be a starter, but won't be a horrible backup, mainly as we can ink him for the minumum.
> 
> Jeff Mcinnis - Was already once a Clipper, and again, won't be a horrible backup. Won't mind him at all, but if we can't ink Boykins/Knight
> 
> Will Blalock - Would be just another project, stay away from him as we can just sign Conroy to be the project.
> 
> Keith McLeod - Won't be a bad fit at all.
> 
> Smush Parker - Let's stay away from Smush, just stay the hell away from him.
> 
> Gary Payton - Would be awesome in my opinion, if not for playing reasons, as him and Sammy would be mouthing off 24/7.
> 
> Jannero Pargo - Won't mind him if the price is right.
> 
> Charlie Bell - RFA, and is more of a 2guard, but he can handle the ball.
> 
> Eddie House - Some consider him to be a point, I really don't, but he could be the shooter we need handling the ball.


C'mon qross, that's a sad sad sad list of guys. you're still gonna say i'm being pessimistic with those being our available options?


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## qross1fan

leidout said:


> C'mon qross, that's a sad sad sad list of guys. you're still gonna say i'm being pessimistic with those being our available options?


That's not that horrible of a list[note, we are looking for a backup, but most likely a third PG in my opinion as Jordan should be the backup], and we can still make deals, I don't know if it would happen, but to say we won't do anything next year is being a lil pessimistic. GP won't be a bad fit here, neither would Bell or Pargo, along with of course, the Duke of Earl and Knight. We still have ways to go in the offseason before we push the panic button, not saying we cant have our fingers near it though.


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## leidout

qross1fan said:


> That's not that horrible of a list[note, we are looking for a backup, but most likely a third PG in my opinion as Jordan should be the backup], and we can still make deals, I don't know if it would happen, but to say we won't do anything next year is being a lil pessimistic. GP won't be a bad fit here, neither would Bell or Pargo, along with of course, the Duke of Earl and Knight. We still have ways to go in the offseason before we push the panic button, not saying we cant have our fingers near it though.



Whoa whoa whoa, i'm confused here. Since when did we find a full time starting PG??? You can't seriously be talking about Cassell? By his own admission, he said he wanted to be a bench player at this point in his career, he may have mentioned he feels good a few weeks ago (after we failed to draft/trade a good PG), but i think that's just to keep morale up.

And since when did we decide to sign any of our 2nd rounders??

You're making an awful lot of assumptions of things that aren't even close to being concrete. And besides, among that list, who was even 80% as reliable/talented as Jason Hart?? (and that isn't saying much at all)


----------



## MR. VADA

i didn't admit anything...

i'm just going to be the mature one about this. i said what i had to say. my opinions...but i noticed that whenever someone say's something you don't agree with you throw a tantrum and type a bible on how off base someone is... i'm not waving the white flag, it's just that you can't reason with an ignorant person who thinks that they know everything...

that's another fact...

your a perfect example of tunnel vision and you got a bad case of it...as easy as you have an argument about everything i say, it's even easier for me to find people on this site or not, who completely understand and feel my perspective...just like some on this site would vouch for you. you should be a lawyer cause you take pride in trying to discredit people and your a professional at misinterpeting things. where were you when michael jackson was on trial??? i'm sure you coulda got him a couple of years, going off the "facts". your biased yam, and i already proved that...it's truth to everything i said so just leave it alone and move on...you can't win because there is no competition... it's not my fault you can't se the big picture and you refuse to read between the lines...



and once again i didn't admit to anything...this just proves that your a relentless idiot that'll argue with bin laden if you had a chance to...im washing my hands of this...i'll ignore what you post from now on like i used too...go ahead and disect this too, then pat yourself on the back when your finished...vada

//(.Y.)\\


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## leidout

MR. VADA said:


> i'm just going to be the mature one about this.


:lol: Lies!


----------



## Showtime87

I guess Steve and Cuttino aren't as close as we all seemed to think....Oh well, I think it's a poor decision on his part, but I'm not losing any sleep over this.


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## Free Arsenal

qross1fan said:


> Ok, let's get back on subject here. Sure, we lost on Franchise, but here are the list of remaining PG's[Via Free Agency, Listing ALL PG's]:
> 
> Royal Ivey - Should not be a starter, but won't be a horrible backup, mainly as we can ink him for the minumum.
> 
> Jeff Mcinnis - Was already once a Clipper, and again, won't be a horrible backup. Won't mind him at all, but if we can't ink Boykins/Knight
> 
> Will Blalock - Would be just another project, stay away from him as we can just sign Conroy to be the project.
> 
> Keith McLeod - Won't be a bad fit at all.
> 
> Smush Parker - Let's stay away from Smush, just stay the hell away from him.
> 
> Gary Payton - Would be awesome in my opinion, if not for playing reasons, as him and Sammy would be mouthing off 24/7.
> 
> Jannero Pargo - Won't mind him if the price is right.
> 
> Charlie Bell - RFA, and is more of a 2guard, but he can handle the ball.
> 
> Eddie House - Some consider him to be a point, I really don't, but he could be the shooter we need handling the ball.


I think maybe we should sign JJ... and Diaz or Conroy.

JJ is the cross your fingers and pray signing, and Diaz and/or Conroy...
I mean, it'd definitely be better than signing these other guys.

Well for the record. I think Keith Mcleod might be the best fit out of these guys. Payton would be a "fun" fit though.:biggrin:


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## qross1fan

Free Arsenal said:


> I think maybe we should sign JJ... and Diaz or Conroy.
> 
> JJ is the cross your fingers and pray signing, and Diaz and/or Conroy...
> I mean, it'd definitely be better than signing these other guys.
> 
> Well for the record. I think Keith Mcleod might be the best fit out of these guys. Payton would be a "fun" fit though.:biggrin:


I agree with JJ, but I think Diaz needs to be on the team as he can score and be our backup offguard. I won't mind seeing Bell or Pargo either.

Sammy and Payton on the court at the same time will lead to the refs needing to do a lot of explaining


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## MR. VADA

leidout said:


> :lol: Lies!


...vada


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## hutcht02

I thin with Knight on the team we need Dia over Jared Jordan, just to add more of a scoring PG option to the bench since BK is pass first like J.J., we need another offensive threat behind Cassell, and if he goes down, which he will at some point, you better bet that if Knight and J.J. are our PG's we will get zoned and lane-jammed like crazy. We need scoring PG's, and I think managment is stupid if they let Diaz get away.


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## MR. VADA

hutcht02 said:


> I thin with Knight on the team we need Dia over Jared Jordan, just to add more of a scoring PG option to the bench since BK is pass first like J.J., we need another offensive threat behind Cassell, and if he goes down, which he will at some point, you better bet that if Knight and J.J. are our PG's we will get zoned and lane-jammed like crazy. We need scoring PG's, and I think managment is stupid if they let Diaz get away.


that's what i was saying a couple week's ago...diaz is a diamond in the rough that needs some polishing. i think he'll only get better by playing aginst real competition. if we get knight (who does have a semi solid mid-range jumper despite what some of you believe) then it should be easier to let jj play overseas for a year to work on his d...he really does remind me of steve nash and i dont think his jumper is all that bad, but it's his defense...plus when livi comes back we'll need space for him. jj overseas for one year is only gonna help him like it helped diaz. it didn't really show in his shot, but he did look more comfortable out there than he did last year...vada


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## yamaneko

> We need scoring PG's, and I think managment is stupid if they let Diaz get away.


Well Diaz cant go to another team in the NBA. I think the only way he "gets away" is if hes offered a ton of money over sees, or he totally bombs. I think he is going to be given a big opporutunity to make the team come training camp. They all well, conroy, diaz, jordan. may the best man win.


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## Free Arsenal

hutcht02 said:


> I thin with Knight on the team we need Dia over Jared Jordan, just to add more of a scoring PG option to the bench since BK is pass first like J.J., we need another offensive threat behind Cassell, and if he goes down, which he will at some point, you better bet that if Knight and J.J. are our PG's we will get zoned and lane-jammed like crazy. We need scoring PG's, and I think managment is stupid if they let Diaz get away.


JJ may not be a good shooter yet, but he can score.


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## yamaneko

Training camp and preseason will be a MUCH better litmus test to see who will step up. Summer league is fun, and itneresting, but we really didnt learn much from there. Heck, i think gansey was the best PG the clippers had in summerleague, yet no one is even mentioning him, and i dont even think he has a shot at the team.

But in preaseaon, on nba courts, nba crowds, nba defense, THEN we will see who steps up


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## hutcht02

yamaneko said:


> Training camp and preseason will be a MUCH better litmus test to see who will step up. Summer league is fun, and itneresting, but we really didnt learn much from there. Heck, i think gansey was the best PG the clippers had in summerleague, yet no one is even mentioning him, and i dont even think he has a shot at the team.
> 
> But in preaseaon, on nba courts, nba crowds, nba defense, THEN we will see who steps up


He ws a SG, but then again so was Diaz so it might not matter.


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## Free Arsenal

I think we should test out Diaz a little by signing him. Also sign J.J and make him work on his jumper and defense.

The only way he can get better is by playing against tougher competition.


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## Free Arsenal

Let's forgo Brevin Knight.


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## matador1238

Free Arsenal said:


> Let's forgo Brevin Knight.


I agree. BK is not going to help us much so why not develop some younger players.


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## leidout

Free Arsenal said:


> Let's forgo Brevin Knight.


Let Kaman be the PG, he'd can't be too much worse than whatever veteran scrub Dunleavy will dig out of the graveyard. 

He'll stink up the joint so badly i'd actually have fun watching us lose. :yay:


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## yamaneko

haha, at least kaman pushes the ball...remember his behind the back play against the lakers? Hed probably get the ball up the court faster than ewing did. lol.


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## Free Arsenal

matador1238 said:


> I agree. BK is not going to help us much so why not develop some younger players.


I think that's probably the best idea. Also the 2008 free agent year is much better than this year, and we may have more cap space to sign Sofokilis if Elton Opts out and leaves.


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