# Game Thread: Round 2: Game 4: Detroit Pistons vs Indiana Pacers



## Brian. (Jul 11, 2002)

<center> @ 
*Indiana Pacers (H: 25-16 R: 19-22) vs. Detroit Pistons(H: 32-9 R: 22-19) *

*Monday May 15, 2005
3:30 PM
TV: ABC*<center>

*<center>Indy leads 2-1</center>*

<center>*Probable Starters:*



*Dale Davis l Jermaine O'neal l Stephen Jackson l Reggie Miller l Jamaal Tinsely*

*vs.*

*Ben Wallace l Rasheed Wallace l Tayshaun Prince l Richard Hamilton l Chauncey Billups*

Click on Picture to View Profile</center>








Team Roster l Team Stats 







Team Roster l Team Stats

<center>*Regular Season Series*</center>
<center>2-2</center>

Nov.19, @ Det 97-82 Pacers 
Dec. 25, @ Ind 98-93 Pistons 
Jan. 27, @ Ind 88-76 Pistons 
March 25, @ Det 94-81 Pacers

<center>:bball: Basketballboards.net NBA Playoffs forum :bball: </center>


Pretty big game for the pistons. We were down 3-2 vs the nets last year and came back to win the series but if we lose sunday 3-1 would be nearly impossible.


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## PacersguyUSA (Sep 1, 2002)

Let's go Pacers!


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## sliver (Nov 21, 2004)

i just hope the pistons show up big time for this game. I want to see aggressiveness, teamwork, carlos arroyo, and sheed making good on his guarantee.


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## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

We need to get easy buckets tonight. That's easier said than done considering our offensive woes in the last 7 quarters. Sheed has to play like the 20 ppg scorer that he can be when he wants to. Billups needs to take his game to the next level as well. He did a good job of that last game, but I want to see Billups play like Arenas is across from him, from start to finish. Tay needs to shake off the ankle injury and fatigue and give us a solid and efficient 16-18 points. I don't know how much Rip has healed in the last day or so, but if he is hurting us he needs to sit. 

I've almost given up hope on LB playing the bench more, but I'll mention it anyway.

And for goodness sake, someone put a body (or two) on Jeff Foster. He's looked like Dennis Rodman the last couple games.


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## Midnight_Marauder (Dec 1, 2003)

Whoever wins this game wins the series....it should be a very, very good game...I sent the wife out of the house and I am going to be so into this game...


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## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

Midnight_Marauder said:


> Whoever wins this game wins the series....it should be a very, very good game...I sent the wife out of the house and I am going to be so into this game...



I don't know about that, but I do know that Detroit can't lose this one. We may as well prepare for a long summer if they lose this one.


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## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

Billups pre-game interview with Ahmad Rashad is on now...


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## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

Pistons open up with Ben guarding JO. Rip with an early offensive rebound.

Tinsley penetrates again.

4-2 Pistons.

rip turnover, Miller misses a three. Ben throws up some crap, Stephen Jackson buries a three. 7-2 Pacers.


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## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

...And another turnover and a 7-0 run for the Pacers.


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## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

That's the Billups we need tonight.

Another turnover, that's 4.


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## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

Sluggish and slow start for the Pistons, but we've made a run led by Chauncey and aided by the Pacers inability to knock down open shots.


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## PacersguyUSA (Sep 1, 2002)

Time to put F. Jones in for Miller. Reggie just doesn't hit the shots like he used to.


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## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

If LB is smart/not stubborn then he'll get Chauncey the necessary rest he needs in order for him to keep this pace up.


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## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

Sheed with the low post bucket, should've gotten the foul too, but oh well.


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## irishfury (Jun 8, 2003)

CJ said:


> Sheed with the low post bucket, should've gotten the foul too, but oh well.


these ticky tacky fouls on us making me mad...


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## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

Hope we realize Reggie's going baseline or to the right everytime he's forced to put the ball on the floor.

17-10 Pistons TV timeout.


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## PacersguyUSA (Sep 1, 2002)

Come on, put somebody in: Jones, Jones, Johnson, Croshere. If nobody's making anything, change it up.


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## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

irishfury said:


> these ticky tacky fouls on us making me mad...


ea, it seems like they're letting them play if they have the ball in the paint, but they're calling the off the ball stuff pretty tight.


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## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

Arroyo's in... LB is no fool.

Here's to hoping the Pacers continue to shoot jumpers and move their offense away from the basket.


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## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

At least the string of 7 bad quarters is over. Now that we have moved on from that we can concentrate on putting together a good 12 going into the half.


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## irishfury (Jun 8, 2003)

I guess it's legal to take someones head off with no foul...


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## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

Rahseed with the jumper to give him points 7 and 8. Even more impressive is that he has 3 blocks.


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## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

Even though Arroyo is not *the* reason we are winning, his PT is valuable because we are maintaining the lead and he is giving Billups rest. Now Billups can come back in without pacing himself.


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## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

Indiana playing small ball with James Jones in at PF. 

LB matches up with that by moving Prince to the 4.


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## PacersguyUSA (Sep 1, 2002)

Well, looks like Indiana will lose this series.


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## irishfury (Jun 8, 2003)

Rip is playing terrible


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## Midnight_Marauder (Dec 1, 2003)

The refs are calling this game waaaaaaay too tight...it is almost annoying....let them play...


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## trueorfalse (May 31, 2003)

CJ, I am in the dark here (no broadcast), who is guarding who?
And with Carlos and Billups both on the court, who is playing pointguard? Besides, is Ben still the main man when it comes to guardign ONeal?


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## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

LOL, got your wish M_M... Billups ran over Jackson, which should've been a defensive foul, and they call nothing.

Tinsley picks up his 3rd and a T. We have a chance to get it back into that 15 point range with a good possession.


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## Midnight_Marauder (Dec 1, 2003)

That wasnt worth a technical....he was pissed at himself...not the official...this is going to be a 6 hour game....damn


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## PacersguyUSA (Sep 1, 2002)

What exactly was that call on Tinsley? He got all ball before Billups so it can't be a loose ball foul, and Billups was moving, so it couldn't have been an offensive foul.


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## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

trueorfalse said:


> CJ, I am in the dark here (no broadcast), who is guarding who?
> And with Carlos and Billups both on the court, who is playing pointguard? Besides, is Ben still the main man when it comes to guardign ONeal?


Billups, Hunter, Hamilton, Dice, Sheed

Johnson, Miller, S. Jackson, James Jones, Dale Davis

In order of position and who they're guarding.


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## irishfury (Jun 8, 2003)

Longest second quarter ever lol...


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## Midnight_Marauder (Dec 1, 2003)

Like I have said all series....if LB plays the bench a little more they will win....Dice and Arroyo are playing very solid minutes...


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## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

Midnight_Marauder said:


> That wasnt worth a technical....he was pissed at himself...not the official...this is going to be a 6 hour game....damn



I agree, but when you do it in front of the ref after he calls one on you, you leave it up to the ref to determine your intent.


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## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

I don't know if I've ever sen anyone jump and pass as much as Rip.


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## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

Offense is the problem right now, get Hunter out of there and get Dice back in the game.

And stop matching up with them, make them match up with us.


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## PacersguyUSA (Sep 1, 2002)

damn we need to rebeound those


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## PacersguyUSA (Sep 1, 2002)

Pacers killed all their runs by fouling. Hopefully the other rim will prove kinder.


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## trueorfalse (May 31, 2003)

CJ said:


> Billups, Hunter, Hamilton, Dice, Sheed
> 
> Johnson, Miller, S. Jackson, James Jones, Dale Davis
> 
> In order of position and who they're guarding.


Thanks, it looks as if Detroit is a lot better at controlling the rebounds, 24-19 as Im writing...glad to see Arroyo in so early! Tinsley with three fouls could turn out to be a factor. Why does Indiana get to the line more often?


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## Midnight_Marauder (Dec 1, 2003)

Detroit will win this game by 7 points....


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## Brian. (Jul 11, 2002)

Rip has been disappointing maybe its partly because of his injury but he made a couple of bad decisions in the end of the 2nd quarter.


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## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

Chauncey, Sheed, and Dice carried us offensivley in the first half. Those three should be the first options when they're in until they show that they're not knocking down their shots. I want to see Billups continue the aggressive play, Tinsley can't guard him like he would like because he has 3 fouls. Keep the pressure up, continue to dictate the pace, and keep up the bench minutes and we should be in good shape.


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## JoeD (Sep 2, 2004)

Woke up in time to see the end of the second. What a funny foul on Tayshaun at the end, if the guy who called it actually looked at Tayshaun there was obviously no contact. I guess that's why he called it late, because he decided to call a foul not because he saw one. I'm sure there are a lot of blown calls each way, but Tayshaun always gets robbed with a foul or goaltending call.

Gotta love Star Wars coomercials IN the half time show. Atleast it isn't during the game like with TNT.


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## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

The miss by Billups was fine, at least we realize Tins is in foul trouble.


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## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

Ben complaining to the refs almost costs us a basket. Nice find by Tay. 52-38.


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## PacersguyUSA (Sep 1, 2002)

Pacers should have just practiced shooting at halftime.


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## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

Chauncey and Sheed are carrying the guys right now.


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## irishfury (Jun 8, 2003)

CJ said:


> Chauncey and Sheed are carrying the guys right now.


Yeah Rip,Ben and T.Prince terrible


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## irishfury (Jun 8, 2003)

These refs are a joke....


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## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

Phantom foul call on Billups and 4 on Ben. We need a TO to get things settled down.


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## The Enigma (May 10, 2003)

What is Brown doing?

Arroyo played a hell of a span (late 1st to early 2nd), so what does Brown do late 2nd?

_Hunter..._

Why?

It is to the point that Hunter is such an offensive liability that all of his defensive abilities cannot compensate for how much he is hurting things on the other end. 
It is almost as though Brown played Arroyo and panicked when he thought Arroyo was playing too well.

Lord knows that if Arroyo plays well and the Pistons win, perhaps questions of why did he not play before may surface.

Can’t have that (cant show up the almighty Larry Blameless).

------

Hamilton's passing is really becoming a problem. His problem is that he never (and I repeat never) attempts to set up his teammates off the active dribble. All of his passes tend to be bailout passes in the air.


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## JoeD (Sep 2, 2004)

Ben going to the bench already is not good.


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## irishfury (Jun 8, 2003)

*waits for the refs to pull off there outfits and show us there reggie jersey*


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## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

I think we'll see Sheed demanding the ball after getting the T.


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## PacersguyUSA (Sep 1, 2002)

Come on DJ Paul B, keep up the crowd's intensity after this time out.


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## Brian. (Jul 11, 2002)

Pacers on 8-0 run lead is down to 6.


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## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

irishfury said:


> *waits for the refs to pull off there outfits and show us there reggie jersey*



LOL, I didn't like that last one against Sheed either. A couple easy baskets (inside) will cure the drought we are currently on.


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## The Enigma (May 10, 2003)

By the way...

What happened to the high pick and roll (pick and pop) plays that appeared to be so successful in the first half?
Why are all the plays in the second half pin downs to Hamilton?

I am losing more and more appreciation for Brown with each passing minute.


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## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

Refs gave us a makeup, Sheed fouled JO on that one.


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## irishfury (Jun 8, 2003)

Sheed is angry which is good


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## Brian. (Jul 11, 2002)

Davis with a T lead back to ten


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## PacersguyUSA (Sep 1, 2002)

What's with the refs vendetta against Dale Davis this series?

I'd like to see Fred Jones come back in.


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## Brian. (Jul 11, 2002)

irishfury said:


> Sheed is angry which is good


I wish it wouldn't take him a tech though he is just a few choice words from being bounced from this game.


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## nickrock23 (Mar 28, 2004)

CJ said:


> Refs gave us a makeup, Sheed fouled JO on that one.


he got mugged i agree.. refs have to clean it up or somethings gonna go down


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## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

The Enigma said:


> By the way...
> 
> What happened to the high pick and role (pick and pop) plays that appeared to be so successful in the first half?
> Why are all the plays in the second half pin downs to Hamilton?
> ...



He does that all the time. I have no idea why. It's usually up to the players to find their own shot or call a play for themselves to get the ball to the hot hand. Maybe he's trying to get Rip going?? Either way I agree with you, the ball should be going to Dice, Sheed, and Billups on every possession.


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## PacersguyUSA (Sep 1, 2002)

Refs (unjustly) killed the excitement out of this game.


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## Brian. (Jul 11, 2002)

Hamiliton and Billups with huge shots pistons up 15


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## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

nickrock23 said:


> he got mugged i agree.. refs have to clean it up or somethings gonna go down


Well it started with the tech on Davis. I wouldn't say Davis mugged O'neal though. What Davis did was over the top.


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## irishfury (Jun 8, 2003)

PacersguyUSA said:


> Refs (unjustly) killed the excitement out of this game.


Just how the justly put them back in the game right?


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## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

Good, Arroyo is back in. We need to find a way to get Tay some rest.


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## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

LOL, what is Freddie Jones doing?

Prince for three. Hunter in for Sheed, possibly to save Sheed from picking up an unecessary foul.


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## nickrock23 (Mar 28, 2004)

CJ said:


> Well it started with the tech on Davis. I wouldn't say Davis mugged O'neal though. What Davis did was over the top.


i thought you were talkin about the JO layup and no-call.. the over the top was clean, i thought on both sides.
and that was a block on sheed there (jones with the charge) but seriously they have been wrong on both sides all game.


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## Brian. (Jul 11, 2002)

Foster hits a shot to end the 3rd pistons lead by 16


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## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

nickrock23 said:


> i thought you were talkin about the JO layup and no-call.. the over the top was clean, i thought on both sides.
> and that was a block on sheed there (jones with the charge) but seriously they have been wrong on both sides all game.



Yea, that is what I was talking about. I didn't think Sheed fouled him a couple plays before that and they called it, but they didn't call the clear foul on Sheed on that one. Go figure.

I was saying Davis pushing Billups or whatever he was trying to do was over the top or unecessary...

I think the NBA refs are pretty bad in general.


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## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

We have a pretty nice cushion heading into the fourth. Hopefully the bench will be able to provide solid minutes so we can finish the game out strong.


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## nickrock23 (Mar 28, 2004)

CJ said:


> I think the NBA refs are pretty bad in general.


not as bad as NFL though


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## DJMD (Nov 20, 2004)

NBA refs are the worst in professional sports and they are proving it again. 

Larry Brown's *****ing worked wonders on the officials, I hope Rick Carlisle does the same thing, but he won't cuz he doesn't want to drag himself down to the low level of Larry Brown.

I hope they get better refs for next game.


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## The Enigma (May 10, 2003)

I apologize folks for what appears to be constant negativity coming from me.
From now on I will focus more on the positives.


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## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

Lindsey in instead of Arroyo, don't like that at all. Don't like our starting backcourt being in the game, at this point in the game, at the same time either.


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## irishfury (Jun 8, 2003)

nickrock23 said:


> not as bad as NFL though


Yeah but at least you get 2 challenges a game...


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## nickrock23 (Mar 28, 2004)

too much chauncey


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## PacersguyUSA (Sep 1, 2002)

I knew the Pistons would win this game, but it still angers me.


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## irishfury (Jun 8, 2003)

Rips 13 pts 6 assist have been so quite you wouldn't know that was his stat line.


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## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

These next minutes are critical. Both teams have been going on runs the entire game, so it's not out of the question that they'll go on another.


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## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

DJMD said:


> NBA refs are the worst in professional sports and they are proving it again.
> 
> Larry Brown's *****ing worked wonders on the officials, I hope Rick Carlisle does the same thing, but he won't cuz he doesn't want to drag himself down to the low level of Larry Brown.
> 
> I hope they get better refs for next game.


Refs don't hold a team to 64 points.


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## irishfury (Jun 8, 2003)

CJ said:


> Refs don't hold a team to 64 points.


Yeah or tell ya that the pacer have shot 28 ft attemps compared to Det 18 attemps


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## Midnight_Marauder (Dec 1, 2003)

DJMD said:


> NBA refs are the worst in professional sports and they are proving it again.
> 
> Larry Brown's *****ing worked wonders on the officials, I hope Rick Carlisle does the same thing, but he won't cuz he doesn't want to drag himself down to the low level of Larry Brown.
> 
> I hope they get better refs for next game.


Refs dont lose games for teams....Indy just is not playing with any enthusiasm out there.....I dont accept whining about officials from either side....Brown was wrong for complaining and if Carslisle complains he will be wrong too....Oh well...


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## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

irishfury said:


> Yeah or tell ya that the pacer have shot 28 ft attemps compared to Det 18 attemps



LOL, Brilliant!


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## JoeD (Sep 2, 2004)

Wow I thought the refs almost missed that goaltend.


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## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

Way to put it down body!! 

A quick couple of baskets and it's back up to 16.


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## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

Good timeout, we're shooting unecessary shots. Just milk the clock and get this one over with.


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## The Enigma (May 10, 2003)

With 2:00 minutes left Rasheed is out of gas.


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## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

I wonder why Foster has gotten so little PT in this one.


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## Midnight_Marauder (Dec 1, 2003)

Well I was looking forward to this game all weekend....a good game but not the close game I was wanting to see...Detroit really flexed their muscles on this one


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## P33r~ (Nov 22, 2004)

So what was the score? Box isnt up here at school.


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## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

We can only hope that somehow Brown correlates our bench getting minutes to the win. It's so obvious that we're a much better team when our bench plays, that you really have to wonder if LB had surgery on his hip or his brain when he refuses to play them. I seriously doubt Chauncey has the performance he has if he is forced to play basically the whole game.


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## DJMD (Nov 20, 2004)

I know Indy played like garbage, but the Refs ruled the game. They made some horrible calls, they cost Indy their momentum.

Plus JO is a piece of garbage today. They should play him a lot less.

See ya on Tuesday.


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## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

P33r~ said:


> So what was the score? Box isnt up here at school.


89-76.

Box Score


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## irishfury (Jun 8, 2003)

DJMD said:


> I know Indy played like garbage, but the Refs ruled the game. They made some horrible calls, they cost Indy their momentum.
> 
> Plus JO is a piece of garbage today. They should play him a lot less.
> 
> See ya on Tuesday.


The refs have blown for every series I watched the first half I thought the refs had Reggie Jersey on...but oh well hopefully we see it called better both ways in the future.


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## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

All Indiana has to do is look at their 26-70 shooting or their 3-19 shooting from 3 point range.

They went away from what worked in the last two games. What happened to getting Reggie Miller involved and Foster only playing 12 minutes.

Sheed with 17, 12, and 5 blocks.

Billups with 29 and 6.

Dice with 12 and 6 off the bench.


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## Lord Toranaga (Apr 20, 2005)

Great game. Our intensity is back and Larry played Arroyo. I'm all smiles.


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## Copper (Dec 9, 2004)

DJMD said:


> I know Indy played like garbage, but the Refs ruled the game. They made some horrible calls, they cost Indy their momentum.
> 
> Plus JO is a piece of garbage today. They should play him a lot less.
> 
> See ya on Tuesday.


 I thought Indy was getting some favorable calls. I thought J Oneal shoulda had at least 9-10 fouls, and Davis' foul on C coulda cost him a game with the elbow to the head. I cant complain cause they have been equally horrible both ways all series. I just hate for games to be decided by the whistle instead of the players.


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## The Enigma (May 10, 2003)

Lord Toranaga said:


> Great game. Our intensity is back and Larry played Arroyo. I'm all smiles.


I still think that Arroyo should have played more. He is so much more effective when on the court then Hunter that it is amazing Hunter still plays minutes at backup PG.


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## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

Copper said:


> I just hate for games to be decided by the whistle instead of the players.



Which this one was. Indy really wasn't close for basically the entire game getting the lead down to about 6(?) points at one point, but the lead was consistently in the double digits range. Anyone blaming the refs in this one is in denial.


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## Copper (Dec 9, 2004)

CJ said:


> Which this one was. Indy really wasn't close for basically the entire game getting the lead down to about 6(?) points at one point, but the lead was consistently in the double digits range. Anyone blaming the refs in this one is in denial.


 I didnt mean for anyone to think I was reffering to this game being decided by the refs. I was making a blanket statement about my belief in general.


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## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

Copper said:


> I didnt mean for anyone to think I was reffering to this game being decided by the refs. I was making a blanket statement about my belief in general.



Same here... :wink: 


I was just talking in general too.


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## Lope31 (Jun 11, 2002)

I got off work at 5 and caught the last bit of the game and liked what I saw. I really liked how we seemed to be working the ball around, not settling for jumpers as often (knocking them down when we had them) and we hustled. Ben and Tayshaun both come to mind on the offensive glass. Plus Sheed didn't wear corn-rows. We've never won when he has rows.


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