# New York News: Pacers interest in Gordon?



## Gonzo (Oct 14, 2004)

> Anytime the Bulls decide to let Ben Gordon escape Scott Skiles' doghouse, they'll be getting speed-dialed by more than a few teams, starting with Indiana and Denver. Both clubs are watching the Gordon-Skiles feud over a starting lineup spot and playing time with great interest. The Pacers find it harder and harder to put up with Stephon Jackson's daft decisions with the ball, while Nuggets coach George Karl is desperate to add a shooter to stretch the defense.


See the rest of the article here:
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/v-pfriendly/story/371374p-315971c.html


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## rock747 (Aug 3, 2004)

I can't imagine Jackson and Skiles getting along that well.


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## PaCeRhOLiC (May 22, 2005)

I would love to get Gordon, but I wouldn't give that much for him....



*Go PaCeRs!!!!!!!!*


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## MillerTime (Jul 6, 2003)

I'd prefer keeping Jackson then getting Gordon.

I love Gordon's game but we need a scorer, and Jackson can score more then Gordon, esspicially on a team with a O'Neal and Artest, and personally i think we're fine with Tins and Saras, they just need to get used to each other.


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## The Man (Aug 20, 2005)

Yeah, I just don't see us getting Gordon. I probably wouldn't be upset if we did, just depends on who we gave up for him.


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## jdohman (Nov 20, 2005)

We have to look at it this way.

With gordon in the lineup we add another sharpshooter.. him and sarans together would force teams not to double down on artest and JO. 

How many players in the league can go one on one with artest in the paint or JO? 

We would for the defense to play perm defense and not wait for the inside.


We would be giving up our slasher though. I waited for a player like jackson for quite sometime. I am just not sure if he is the right fit in indy though. 

He may score more than gordon, but will gordon allow other to score more? Will he force up bad shots early in the shot clock and not work the ball inside out.


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

jdohman said:


> With gordon in the lineup we add another sharpshooter.. him and sarans together would force teams not to double down on artest and JO.


Stephen Jackson is already one of our best shooters. We'd be exchanging shooters at the expense of height, strength, and defense.


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## Grangerx33 (Mar 9, 2004)

Stephen Jackson is a great player and can be that player that makes a difference in the playoffs, his only problem is he has been on a slump and making some bad decisions lately, that however is something that can change, and time has shown that it probably will. It would be stupid to trade a player who any given night put up 20+ for someone who is just learning, we already have Fred Jones. Stephen Jackson is a tall guard who can shoot, defend, and play, I think come playoffs he will make a big impace, he is the player that could push us over the top, it would be foolish to trade him imo.


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## jermaine7fan (Aug 19, 2005)

I think we should start using Stephen in the second unit... and start Sarunas at the 2... that boy can shoot lights out. It is my belief that Stephen would be better suited for a spotlight roll in the second unit... and Sarunas could help spread the D more for our starters. Stephen would be playing a role more like he did in San Antonio... was that not when he played best (for his team... not stats)?


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## Gonzo (Oct 14, 2004)

jermaine7fan said:


> and start Sarunas at the 2...


Well, technically, we can't. Tinsley is out with a quad or groin strain. Do you want to do this now and risk AJ starting or can we wait about a week or so?


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## Auggie (Mar 7, 2004)

jermaine7fan said:


> I think we should start using Stephen in the second unit... and start Sarunas at the 2... that boy can shoot lights out. It is my belief that Stephen would be better suited for a spotlight roll in the second unit... and Sarunas could help spread the D more for our starters. Stephen would be playing a role more like he did in San Antonio... was that not when he played best (for his team... not stats)?


stephen jackson needs to be benched yea and id like jasikevicius to start as well, but im skeptical about the backcourt of sarunas and tinsley.


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## StephenJackson (Oct 28, 2004)

Larry Legend said:


> Well, technically, we can't. Tinsley is out with a quad or groin strain. Do you want to do this now and risk AJ starting or can we wait about a week or so?


Give Freddie or Granger a shot.


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## jermaine7fan (Aug 19, 2005)

Larry Legend said:


> Well, technically, we can't. Tinsley is out with a quad or groin strain. Do you want to do this now and risk AJ starting or can we wait about a week or so?


I can be patient


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## jermaine7fan (Aug 19, 2005)

Indystarza said:


> stephen jackson needs to be benched yea and id like jasikevicius to start as well, but im skeptical about the backcourt of sarunas and tinsley.


I would think it would improve ball movement... and give us an outside threat to scare the D away from Ron and JO down low.


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## Auggie (Mar 7, 2004)

jermaine7fan said:


> I would think it would improve ball movement... and give us an outside threat to scare the D away from Ron and JO down low.


but what about our own D? jasi and tinsley arent exactly the best defenders


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## jermaine7fan (Aug 19, 2005)

Indystarza said:


> but what about our own D? jasi and tinsley arent exactly the best defenders


True... but with Jackson's recent defensive effort... Sarunas' D looks better.


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## jermaine7fan (Aug 19, 2005)

Sarunas' first start at the 2... SUCCESS! 

12 points, 7 assists, 8 rebounds, *2 blocks, 2 steals*

Who says he can't play D


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

jermaine7fan said:


> Sarunas' first start at the 2... SUCCESS!
> 
> 12 points, 7 assists, 8 rebounds, *2 blocks, 2 steals*
> 
> Who says he can't play D


Blocks and steals have little to do with how good he is at defense. Defense should first be staying with your man, then going for the blocks or steals if they're easy or if you can afford to.


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## jermaine7fan (Aug 19, 2005)

Pacers Fan said:


> Blocks and steals have little to do with how good he is at defense. Defense should first be staying with your man, then going for the blocks or steals if they're easy or if you can afford to.


I'll admit Sarunas has a problem with staying in front of his guy... but that is actually his only liability... and he makes up for it with smart decisions. He is good at knowing when to swipe at a ball... or jump out in front of a pass. And most importantly... he plays with aggression and tenacity... tenacity being what Stephen lacks in his defensive game. He may have a problem with lateral movement and being able to stay in front of someone... but his quickness makes up for it at times. The Pacers focus on team defense... so if someone gets blown by... there is supposed to be someone there to make up for it. Sarunas has such a high IQ of the game that it makes up for what he lacks in physical ability. And when you take into consideration just how deadly a three point shooter/shooter this guy is... 

The only... and I mean only tear in this guys game is being able to stay in front of his man... but he more than makes up for it in every other aspect of what he brings to the table. Deadly shooting, great passing, rebounding, stealing, heart, leadership, B-ball IQ... I could go on and on...


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

jermaine7fan said:


> He may have a problem with lateral movement and being able to stay in front of someone... but his quickness makes up for it at times.


He never seemed that quick to me.



> The Pacers focus on team defense... so if someone gets blown by... there is supposed to be someone there to make up for it.


And they shouldn't have to constantly rely on it. The less someone gets blown by, the fewer fouls his teammates should get while playing with him.



> Sarunas has such a high IQ of the game that it makes up for what he lacks in physical ability.


How do you define basketball IQ?


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## jermaine7fan (Aug 19, 2005)

Pacers Fan said:


> He never seemed that quick to me.


Really... that is why my girlfriend loves him... notice that he has decent speed... but the man is really, really quick... both with his feet and hands... my favorite shot of his is when he uses his quick release and just drains one on someone before they even know to jump.





Pacers Fan said:


> And they shouldn't have to constantly rely on it. The less someone gets blown by, the fewer fouls his teammates should get while playing with him.


I haven't noticed that as a problem... fouling has not been one of our weaker points... rebounding, turnovers, and FT shooting are.





Pacers Fan said:


> How do you define basketball IQ?


Making smart decesions on O and D...knowing what to do... and when to do it.


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

jermaine7fan said:


> Really... that is why my girlfriend loves him... notice that he has decent speed... but the man is really, really quick... both with his feet and hands... my favorite shot of his is when he uses his quick release and just drains one on someone before they even know to jump.


His shot is pretty quick, but his feet don't seem much quicker than the average PG.



> I haven't noticed that as a problem... fouling has not been one of our weaker points... rebounding, turnovers, and FT shooting are.


Fouling is every team's problem. You can't say that we can have two poor to near average defenders at guard and still have good defense. Most teams have a star at either PG or SG, and if the person is under 6'5" 210, Ron Artest probably won't be able to guard him. Even if he could, Sarunas or Tinsley would be guarding the opposition's SF. My take on it with guards:

1st Line of defense: Man-to-man
2nd Line of defense: Help defenders from wings
3rd Line of defense: Shot blockers

First we have Tinsley, who is usually too slow to move over to help. However, I have seen him get a few steals when his teammate is beat, so he's not useless there. Artest normally can't afford to help much on other player's defensive assignments because he's busy guarding the star wing of the other team. Assuming the team doesn't have a star, Artest still likes sticking to his man to ensure that he isn't left wide open. Next is Jermaine O'Neal, who can't afford to go for many blocks now since he's our #1 offensive option. That leaves Jeff Foster, who when he rotates over, usually is called for a blocking foul. Our main problem is that our two most valuable defenders are also our two best scorers.

If we manage to have a great 1st line of defense, we won't have to worry about other players getting more fouls or leaving their man wide open, which is why Stephen Jackson should start over Jasikevicius.


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## PaCeRhOLiC (May 22, 2005)

Fouls have been a major part in Indy both on O and on D....




*Go PaCeRs!!!!!*


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## jermaine7fan (Aug 19, 2005)

Pacers Fan said:


> If we manage to have a great 1st line of defense, we won't have to worry about other players getting more fouls or leaving their man wide open, which is why Stephen Jackson should start over Jasikevicius.


Stephen has not been keeping up with his men either this year though...


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

jermaine7fan said:


> Stephen has not been keeping up with his men either this year though...


Better than Saras or Tinsley. He just needs to get motivated, then he'll go back to his good defensive status.


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## jermaine7fan (Aug 19, 2005)

Pacers Fan said:


> Better than Saras or Tinsley. He just needs to get motivated, then he'll go back to his good defensive status.


Question is... will this guy ever self motivate himself on D this year... so far... he hasn't.


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## MillerTime (Jul 6, 2003)

What about a possible package for Artest to Chicago? Their a young team, maybe they would want a dude like him? Proven and a star to go with their kids?

Gordon for Artest could be a start? What would make a solid deal for both teams?


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## absolutebest (Jun 10, 2002)

They already know how big of a headache he is. No way.


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## MillerTime (Jul 6, 2003)

absolutebest said:


> They already know how big of a headache he is. No way.


He wasn't a trouble maker when he played there i didn't think?


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## jermaine7fan (Aug 19, 2005)

MillerTime said:


> What about a possible package for Artest to Chicago? Their a young team, maybe they would want a dude like him? Proven and a star to go with their kids?
> 
> Gordon for Artest could be a start? What would make a solid deal for both teams?


I think I would rather have Deng.


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## StephenJackson (Oct 28, 2004)

Pacers Fan said:


> Better than Saras or Tinsley. He just needs to get motivated, then he'll go back to his good defensive status.



If we do lose Ronny, you will see SJax improve ten fold. Fine by me.


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## jermaine7fan (Aug 19, 2005)

StephenJackson said:


> If we do lose Ronny, you will see SJax improve ten fold. Fine by me.


If Stephen would start playing with more agression... and generally acting like he wants to play D... I will welcome it... I can't believe Ron is saying this stuff... rather than Stephen... IMO... Stephen has more of a right to... I hope SJax does go back to his play from last year w/o Ron... at least Stephen does want to be the #2 man on the Pacers... Ron doesn't... f him... Welcome to #2 Stephen... I agree... this could be very good for the Jax man...


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## StephenJackson (Oct 28, 2004)

jermaine7fan said:


> If Stephen would start playing with more agression... and generally acting like he wants to play D... I will welcome it... I can't believe Ron is saying this stuff... rather than Stephen... IMO... Stephen has more of a right to... I hope SJax does go back to his play from last year w/o Ron... at least Stephen does want to be the #2 man on the Pacers... Ron doesn't... f him... Welcome to #2 Stephen... I agree... this could be very good for the Jax man...



This WILL be great for Jax. I can't wait to see him in the #2 scoring spot again. His game is going to take off again.


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

StephenJackson said:


> His game is going to take off again.


Hopefully his jumpshot takes off faster.

Off Topic- Have you fully forgiven Stephen for throwing a punch at Jermaine, but are mad at Ron for making some comments in an interview?


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## jermaine7fan (Aug 19, 2005)

Pacers Fan said:


> Hopefully his jumpshot takes off faster.
> 
> Off Topic- Have you fully forgiven Stephen for throwing a punch at Jermaine, but are mad at Ron for making some comments in an interview?


I have not fully forgiven Stephen... but I will give him another chance...

F Artest... no more chances...


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## StephenJackson (Oct 28, 2004)

Pacers Fan said:


> Hopefully his jumpshot takes off faster.
> 
> Off Topic- Have you fully forgiven Stephen for throwing a punch at Jermaine, but are mad at Ron for making some comments in an interview?



I'm keeping an eye on Jax. I saw them on the sidelines together in the game vs. the Wizards, and they were talking and having a good time. I think that drama is long over. Loyalty is something that I place above all else. Jax hasn't shown any signs of disloyalty. Jax WANTS to do well here and help this team win. Artest's comments are inexcusable.


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## jermaine7fan (Aug 19, 2005)

StephenJackson said:


> Loyalty is something that I place above all else. Jax hasn't shown any signs of disloyalty. Jax WANTS to do well here and help this team win. Artest's comments are inexcusable.


 :clap: Yup


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