# Carter deal...1...2...3...dead



## CrGiants (Dec 4, 2003)

14 points, 6-8 shooting in the first period alone for Vinsanity tonight. Goodbye my dreams! It was nice (and torturous) while it lasted. No way does Toronto give him to Portland for what we were offering.


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

Don't count on it.

Look at the win vs. Loss aspect. 

Keep in mind too that NY is the place Vince probably would really want to be


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## CrGiants (Dec 4, 2003)

I dunno Schilly. For some reason, and I'm not quite sure why, I don't have a ton of faith in management, even though it hasn't done all that bad. Maybe it's just the VC deal seems too good to be true. 

I guess I just can see management thinking that Portland might turn the corner with its current roster so they decide against it. I say look at what we could do with a more balanced roster and a solid SG. We could get homecourt advantage in the postseason. Just something about the it all seems unrealistic.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>CrGiants</b>!
> 14 points, 6-8 shooting in the first period alone for Vinsanity tonight. Goodbye my dreams! It was nice (and torturous) while it lasted. No way does Toronto give him to Portland for what we were offering.


I dont think that the trade will die based on 1 game or a couple games. If it's dead, it's dead because it was never alive to begin with.


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## CrGiants (Dec 4, 2003)

I think the problem is Portland didn't jump on the deal quick enough, and Toronto is looking for something bigger.


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## ABM (Dec 30, 2002)

Wasn't Palacio part of the original discussions? He did quite well, tonight, as well. :yes:


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

hm..DA was 2-9 tonite...

so I still think that trading for Vince is needed..especially if they can con them into taking DA.


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## CrGiants (Dec 4, 2003)

Hap, I agree. I think the deal is still needed, but does management agree? I think they're inclined to let this streak ride out.

Blazer fans everywhere have seen what happens when it's best players play downlow and outside shooting is inconsistent/nonexistant (see when BG and Sheed were here).


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## Goldmember (May 24, 2003)

I wouldn't consider the trade dead until the trade deadline passes (or if Vince is traded to someone else of course). You don't often see big deals like this made so early in the season. Both Portland and Toronto are still feeling out their respective teams and fishing for a potentially better deal. I doubt either is in a hurry to make a knee jerk trade at this point.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

Wait for Dec 10th for some real offers to start coming in for Vince. It's not too late for Portland to step up to the plate (with Outlaw, Monya, and a first?)


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## CrGiants (Dec 4, 2003)

> Wait for Dec 10th for some real offers to start coming in for Vince. It's not too late for Portland to step up to the plate (with Outlaw, Monya, and a first?)



Hahaha. You're such a kidder. Portland is offering quite a bit as it is. Rahim is a very solid player, and if Toronto doesn't want him at season's end, then they have cap room. Be realistic. Carter isn't the old VC, and if you expect us to take Rose's contract, there is no way we'd throw in more than a first rounder, if even that.


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## Public Defender (May 5, 2003)

The fact that the media caught wind of the trade before it got anywhere tells you two things: 

1.) Toronto wasn't completely happy with the pieces involved, and wanted to see if they could get something better out of Portland, or out of another team. 

and, 

2.) Portland was hesitating, and may be interested in finding a better taker for Abdur-Rahim. 

There are lots of teams that are depending too heavily on guards making shots from the outside (Cleveland, Seattle, Orlando, Knicks, as well as the Raptors), where Abdur-Rahim would be a very welcome addition. 

But my question is whether Portland would really be helping themselves, now that the team appears to be meshing, by completely upending the roster. 

I think if Portland were to make a move, I'd prefer it were a smaller deal for a single player - more like DA and either Van Exel or Stoudamire for a star-quality point guard or shooting guard. It may be unrealistic, but that's the kind of deal that would make the Blazers a contender quickly.

The reason I could see Portland pulling the trigger on a deal to bring Vince Carter to Portland is that it would immediately sell tickets - and lots of them. Not to mention jerseys. It'd be exciting just to hear the buzz around Portland, I have to admit...


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>CrGiants</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> Hahaha. You're such a kidder. Portland is offering quite a bit as it is. Rahim is a very solid player, and if Toronto doesn't want him at season's end, then they have cap room. Be realistic. Carter isn't the old VC, and if you expect us to take Rose's contract, there is no way we'd throw in more than a first rounder, if even that.


Vince for cap room isn't going to cut it. That's why Babcock didn't make the deal I would think. Carter is the same player he has been for years, an elite shooting guard. These days he's dunking, shooting the lights out, and actually playing decent defense, despite "not allowing himself to have fun." The Blazers would be getting a hell of a player. 14 points in the first quarter last night.


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## kaydow (Apr 6, 2004)

> Vince for cap room isn't going to cut it. That's why Babcock didn't make the deal I would think


I think you're right SKY. TO isn't going to rebuild on FA's alone. They're going to want prospects and/or picks. The Blazers might be willing to give up Kryapa or maybe even Outlaw. No way they give up Telfair or Monya (they just don't have anybody else who can play SG) While Carter/Rose might make the Blazers a top 5-8 team in the West, it won't make them a title contender. Plus, they'll have no cap room to sign anybody. So, they'll need some of their young guys, or draft picks to develop to be where they want to be--title contenders. Until VC is in another uniform, I won't give up on this trade. No matter what both sides say, there isn't a better deal out there for either side (IMO) However, the Blazers need to "sweeten the pot" a little to justify the deal for TO fans. I can't blame them for that.


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## Trader Ed (Jun 17, 2002)

While I agree Toronto needs talent in return, Portland is not going to give up the farm to make the deal happen.

Lets look at a few scenarios here...

1) Rahim $14.6 mil exp or Damon $13.75 mil or NVE $11.8 mil for Vince + filler?

Expiring contracts alone.... Both Damon or Rahim can play a part of Toronto's future. NVE will probably hang it up in the next few years. Portland gets the bext of the talent part of it, but Toronto gets the money off the books with the ability to resign them at less money.

Say they kept Rahim at $7-9 mil next year. They save $5.6 to $7.6 mil already

2) One of the rumored deals is: Rahim $14.6 exp + DA $8.4 mil + Stepania $1.1 exp = $24.1 mil for Carter $12.6 mil + Rose $14.5 mil = $27.1 mil

Portland already is taking on $3.6 mil in additional salary this year alone, with taxes its $7.2 mil

And Toronto wants us to give them a pick and/or some prospects as well??? I am not so sure Portland will do that. That is asking too much. Its not our money... but heck $7.2 mil out of anyones pocket... hurts!


Then if you look at it for 3 years, its worse...
*Toronto:*
Rahim $14.6 mil + $8 mil resigned + $9 mil = $31.6 mil
DA $8.4 mil + $9 + $9.7 mil = $27.1 mil
Stepania $1.1 mil + $1.3 mil resigned + $1.5 mil = $3.9 mil
Total = $62.6 mil

*Portland:*
Carter $12.6 mil + $13.8 mil + $15.1 mil = $41.5 mil
Rose $14.5 mil + $15.7 mil + $16.9 mil = $47.1 mil
Total = $88.6 mil

Over a three year span, which Rose and DA's contracts then run out... 
PORTLAND takes on *$26 mil in salary* 
That does not even include tax implications. If the luxury tax is still accessed then its $52 mil in three years


Skywalker AC I appreciate your posts.. I really do.... they are good discussions. But if Toronto wants us to give you Monia or Outlaw.... I say the deal is off...... if its not already off.....

There is no way in the world, IMHO, that Carter and Rose will make up $52 mil in ticket and product sales for the Blazers.... :nonono:


While it MAY make us more competitive and we make the playoffs. It sure will nto make Paul Allen the richest man on earth.


And if Portland is paying $26.2 mil more in teh exchange of players... Guess who is saving that money... TORONTO. They make out like bandits and still have some good players on their team. Rahim is a career 20/9 player. He will do well all his career. He is steady and consistant when he gets the minutes.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>kaydow</b>!
> 
> 
> I think you're right SKY. TO isn't going to rebuild on FA's alone. They're going to want prospects and/or picks. The Blazers might be willing to give up Kryapa or maybe even Outlaw. No way they give up Telfair or Monya (they just don't have anybody else who can play SG) While Carter/Rose might make the Blazers a top 5-8 team in the West, it won't make them a title contender. Plus, they'll have no cap room to sign anybody. So, they'll need some of their young guys, or draft picks to develop to be where they want to be--title contenders. Until VC is in another uniform, I won't give up on this trade. No matter what both sides say, there isn't a better deal out there for either side (IMO) However, the Blazers need to "sweeten the pot" a little to justify the deal for TO fans. I can't blame them for that.


First of all, having Vince, Jalen, and Derek on your team means that you have some serious options at shooting guard. 

Monya would get no time with this team. Period.

Portland wouldn't have to give up all it's prospects but ones that aren't going to get a lot of time are expendable. Monya, Outlaw, Khryapa, they should all be fair game. Telfair should be fair game for a healthy Jason Kidd but I don't know what Blazers management does about this kid. 

Yeah, you'll want to develop a couple of these kids but you'll have draft picks as well. 

I don't know what the likelihood of getting Vince AND Kidd would be but if it's possible, Nash and co should be given the green light if Paul Allen doesn't care about the bottom line. Getting those guys by giving up expiring deals and prospects would make this team competitive for the championship.

Yes, you'd be working with a huge salary but that can make your team more flexible than being just a few mill over the cap. Thomas hasn't done a great job with New York but he's still able to make deals because he's working with so much money. Expiring deals can be traded off to build the team, existing players can be signed, etc. And if you're actually close to winning, good players will sign for less.

JKidd
Vince Carter
Miles
Randolph
Ratliff

Would be the team to watch. Those jerseys would be a hot ticket too. 

Anyways, the Blazers have lots of prospects to work with here, to develop or trade. Telfair (was he drafted to reel in Jason Kidd?), Monya and Khryapa, Outlaw, and Ha and upcoming draft picks. They don't all have a place on an elite team. 

Great players like Vince Carter don't come cheaply. Look at the Marbury trade- Phoenix dumped Penny, and got back expiring contracts, Lampe, and two first rounders. 

Monya and Ha is a starter.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

I dont think the team is trading Ha, or Monia. They might trade Outlaw, but it's doubtful they'll trade any of the "younger" guys for Carter and Rose.

So on top of taking on almost 30 million in salaries for next year, the team has to give up some of iit's current crop of younger players. 

They wouldn't have had Ha stay in Portland if they weren't interested in him.

Even if they have Rose and Carter (and even Anderson, who's hopefully traded otherwise this trade makes no sense) Monia is someone who could be playing when Rose's contract is up, ro Carters.

Getting Carter alone might be worth giving up *1* of the younger guys plus a draft pick, *maybe*. But if they include Rose, we're doing them a huge favor, and they know it.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>SkywalkerAC</b>!
> 
> 
> Great players like Vince Carter don't come cheaply. Look at the Marbury trade- Phoenix dumped Penny, and got back expiring contracts, Lampe, and two first rounders.
> ...


The Knicks also didn't have a player with an expiring contract (or 2) who are actually worth anything. The only thing the Knicks had were crappy players or grossly ovepaid players. So the comparison isn't valid.


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## kaydow (Apr 6, 2004)

> First of all, having Vince, Jalen, and Derek on your team means that you have some serious options at shooting guard.


So, if DA stays, you mean TO wants SAR/NVE + draft picks/prospects? I don't think TO is going to get it both ways. The Blazers won't trade NVE's expiring contract + picks/prospects. They MAY give up a pick/propect if DA is in the deal, to get rid of his contract. However, the Blazers won't trade SAR/NVE/Monya/pick for Carter/Rose. Sky, I admire your loyalty to VC, but he's got some major question marks at this point. The only way Portland "flinches" at this point is to throw in one of their SF's, which they have several (Kryapa, Outlaw, Rube) They aren't going to give TO a young guard.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

If Nash isn't willing to give up a couple prospects, then yes, the deal is probably dead.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>SkywalkerAC</b>!
> If Nash isn't willing to give up a couple prospects, then yes, the deal is probably dead.


I have yet to see what other team would/could offer a better deal than Portland even exclusing prospects.

Toronto gives up Vince but gets out from under Jalen's contract. They get a good 4 with an expiring deal and a starting-caliber 2 guard in DA.

You might want us to throw in Monia/Outlaw/picks but if Portland's bidding against itself there's simply no reason to up the offer.

Touching on the Marbury trade: I agree with Hap it's entirely different. Marbury plays a position of scarcity and was at the top of his game... Carter's been injured, brooding, and plays the swing position.

Marbury cost the Knicks more than Carter will cost some team simply because he's WORTH more.

Ed O.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>SkywalkerAC</b>!
> If Nash isn't willing to give up a couple prospects, then yes, the deal is probably dead.


it's dead because Portland doens't want to take on Roses's bloated contract on top of giving up young players.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Ed O</b>!
> 
> 
> I have yet to see what other team would/could offer a better deal than Portland even exclusing prospects.
> ...


If you want us to take on DA's horrible contract then you most definitely have to sweeten the pot with prospects. 

Carter hasn't been injured and plays the position that the Blazers need the most. 

Portland will have to up the offer if they want a deal before the deadline. That's why I'm hoping they struggle between now and then. Portland will not be the only team looking to land Vince though, after Dec 10, teams will have a lot more to offer. Waiting for draft night also isn't out of the question.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>SkywalkerAC</b>!
> 
> 
> If you want us to take on DA's horrible contract then you most definitely have to sweeten the pot with prospects.


if the raptors take DA's contract, and give us Carter and Rose, they're the ones who save a lot of money. So like I said, not only do we get to take on Rose's contract which is 14 million bigger than DA's, we take on Carters which is 25 million more than DA's.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Hap</b>!
> 
> 
> if the raptors take DA's contract, and give us Carter and Rose, they're the ones who save a lot of money. So like I said, not only do we get to take on Rose's contract which is 14 million bigger than DA's, we take on Carters which is 25 million more than DA's.


Of course we save money, we're the one that's trading our franchise player away for...money. Rose is better than Anderson at PG and SG, and Carter would be playing for you next season, while SAR would not. Yes, they're big contracts, that's obvious. The whole idea of using Carter to ship out Jalen is nullified somewhat if we take back DA. We still save some money, but not nearly as much as we would with NVE, therefore, we'd have to be compensated accordingly.

With NVE, Babcock might accept only one prospect in return but with DA, it would have to be considerably more.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>SkywalkerAC</b>!
> 
> 
> Of course we save money, we're the one that's trading our franchise player away for...money. Rose is better than Anderson at PG and SG, and Carter would be playing for you next season, while SAR would not. Yes, they're big contracts, that's obvious. The whole idea of using Carter to ship out Jalen is nullified somewhat if we take back DA. We still save some money, but not nearly as much as we would with NVE, therefore, we'd have to be compensated accordingly.
> ...


it's not nullified, because DA's contract is easier to trade.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Hap</b>!
> 
> 
> it's not nullified, because DA's contract is easier to trade.


not really. they're both untradable under most circumstances.


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## kaydow (Apr 6, 2004)

Just so you know, I'd pay $49.99 to watch Hap Vs. Skywalker on pay-per-view. This is a slug-fest. Sure to be an "Instant Classic" on the duece!!


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## quick (Feb 13, 2004)

If its some young players toronto wants, I'm willing to depart with woods and frahm.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>SkywalkerAC</b>!
> 
> 
> not really. they're both untradable under most circumstances.


DA's contract is easier to trade because it's not an extra 15 million in comparison.


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## barfo (Jan 2, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>quick</b>!
> If its some young players toronto wants, I'm willing to depart with woods and frahm.


Frahm aint exactly a spring chicken. He was born 8/14/77, which makes him only about 6 months younger than Vince Himself. 

barfo


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## kaydow (Apr 6, 2004)

> Frahm aint exactly a spring chicken. He was born 8/14/77, which makes him only about 6 months younger than Vince Himself


Regardless of age, I don't think Richie Rich is the "prospect" they are hoping for. Just a guess.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>kaydow</b>!
> 
> 
> Regardless of age, I don't think Richie Rich is the "prospect" they are hoping for. Just a guess.


but he's from battleground


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## Trader Ed (Jun 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Trader Bob</b>!
> Then if you look at it for 3 years, its worse...
> *Toronto:*
> Rahim $14.6 mil + $8 mil resigned + $9 mil = $31.6 mil
> ...




HUGE HUGE HUGE numbers

Did I mention we pay a bit more than $1.99 ??????




If there is another team in this league that can make this kind of offer... I sure want to know who it is????


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## Blazer Freak (Jul 11, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Trader Bob</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hey it's Toronto's loss. They will forever be mediocre in the NBA anyways.

BFreak


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## Blazerfan024 (Aug 15, 2003)

A little off topic:



> A threat made against Toronto Raptors guard Vince Carter caused the team to increase security at Wednesday's game against the New York Knicks.
> 
> "The threat was directed at Vince," Bob Hunter, the executive vice president and general manager of the Air Canada Centre, said Friday. "Similar to what happened to Detroit, it suggested that a man and three of his friends would attend the game and plan to disrupt the play and try and get onto the court."



Read It Here


Now will this give us the upperhand eventually do to the fact the fans are basically driving him out of town(well he started it)? Will they feel like VInce just has to go?


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Blazerfan024</b>!
> 
> Now will this give us the upperhand eventually do to the fact the fans are basically driving him out of town(well he started it)? Will they feel like VInce just has to go?


Nope. All it takes is some good shooting and a few dunks and the fans are back on board (moreso anyways). I don't really think Babcock cares too much about the fans' suffering at the present in any case.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Trader Bob</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


you're probably right. you're the only ones that can really take on VC and JR. however, I don't know how many teams are ready to give you what you need for expiring contract either. my guess is very few.


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## Trader Ed (Jun 17, 2002)

I agree too... somewhere there is a happy medium


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## quick (Feb 13, 2004)

> There is no way in the world, IMHO, that Carter and Rose will make up $52 mil in ticket and product sales for the Blazers....
> 
> 
> While it MAY make us more competitive and we make the playoffs. It sure will nto make Paul Allen the richest man on earth.
> ...


 I think those two are worth it as long as the team is competitive but maybe thats just me.


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## CelticPagan (Aug 23, 2004)

Those numbers are misleading. First of all, Rose and Carter are each signed to six years total, Anderson and Ratliff are only signed to 5. So the total sum left on their salary is incomparable. 
(not to mention, the entirety of Anderson's contract can be considered a WASTE)

The fact is Carter and Rose will amount to ~30 million in salary per year. Anderson and Rahim currently amount to 25 million per season. So that's a plus 5 from our current salary cap position.

However, we won't re-sign Damon or Van Exel if we get Rose and Carter! They are each making 15 mil this season! So it's like Carter and Rose in, Damon and Van Exel out. But Rahim and Anderson's deal are STILL coming off the books.

So if that trade went down, the Blazers cap figure would actually GO DOWN BY 25 MILLION DOLLARS!!! Now of course, half of that will be eaten up by Zach's raise. But you all are really off on your math. The deal does not hurt Portland financially.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>CelticPagan</b>!
> 
> So if that trade went down, the Blazers cap figure would actually GO DOWN BY 25 MILLION DOLLARS!!! Now of course, half of that will be eaten up by Zach's raise. But you all are really off on your math. The deal does not hurt Portland financially.


You're the one that's off. DA and SAR don't make $25m combined, neither Damon nor NVE make $15m. And your logic doesn't add up, either.

Portland letting NVE and Damon walk after a trade doesn't make them better off than they are right now... they can STILL let them walk even if no deal with Toronto is reached.

The difference between DA and Rose's deals is about $30m dollars over the three years remaining (including this one). The difference between Carter's deal and SAR's is about $41m, since VC's deal runs three years longer.

That's $71m dollars that Portland won't currently have to commit on players that they would be if they made the Portland trade.

Will it hurt the team financially? Who knows... Carter and Rose should make the team better and between the wins and Vince's dunks it would generate more revenue.

It's clear, though, that Portland will be on the hook for a lot more salary than they currently are and considering how much they've committed to Theo, Miles and Zach, if the new CBA is a big shift Portland could be way, way out of step with the rest of the NBA once again.

Ed O.


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## Trader Ed (Jun 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Trader Bob</b>!
> Then if you look at it for 3 years, its worse...
> *Toronto:*
> Rahim $14.6 mil + $8 mil resigned + $9 mil = $31.6 mil
> ...



CelticPagan, If my numbers are off here ... please let me know... you got to look at it three years down the road at least.

Even this year, we would pay $3 mil more in salary. Portland afer trade $27.1 mil (=$12.6 mil + $14.5 mil) vs Toronto after trade $24.1 mil (= $14.6 mil + $8.4 + $1.1)........... we would pay $6 mil more overall with taxes

Add them up... its right here :makeadeal


Its an increase of at $3 mil the first year (this year) alone.... not a decrease

This is relevant to the players being discussed as part of a possible Toronto trade, and this years payroll

Next years overall team salary total has many factors in it beyond the scope of the trade. And yes, Zach's raise is part of that. Whether or not Damon or NVE is depends on whether they end the season as part of the roster or by players traded for them and their respective salary values.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Ed O</b>!
> 
> It's clear, though, that Portland will be on the hook for a lot more salary than they currently are and considering how much they've committed to Theo, Miles and Zach, if the new CBA is a big shift Portland could be way, way out of step with the rest of the NBA once again.
> 
> Ed O.


which is exactly why the team doesn't throw in young prospects like Outlaw, Monia or Ha. The Blazers are the ones who are doing the huge spending, and run the risk of Carter sulking in a year.

The Blazers are the ones who are spending a WHOLE lot of money, which the Raptors wouldn't have to spend. So not only that, we're expected to take on the added bonus of trading a young player?

chaa right. Toronto can just keep vince and watch his trade value go down and the players they're offered go down in value too.


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## kaydow (Apr 6, 2004)

> chaa right. Toronto can just keep vince and watch his trade value go down and the players they're offered go down in value too.


Vince's line at half vs NY today: 4 pts, 1-5 FG. The guy is clearly "dogging it". Every other game he plays hard for about 10 minutes. That's all TO is going to get. And, it's only going to get worse. The longer this thing draggs out, the more Vince gets frustrated.


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## Kmurph (May 7, 2003)

Good luck finding your "fantasy" deal then Skywalker, b\c I don't see any other team taking Jalesn Rose off your hands. Oh, they will gladly give you an expiring contract and a young player for Carter straight up perhaps, but that won't really help TOR for the next few years. Carter's play of late isn't helping to raise his trade value either.

IF I were POR I'd stick with the deal they "supposedly" counteroffered with SAR, DA & Stepania for Rose and Carter essentially. Take it or leave it, and good luck finding another team out there willing to give you something better.

I am willing to bet\gamble that there will be more takes for SAR and his contract than their will be for a Carter\Rose combination. 

How bad does TOR want out from under Rose's contract? These kinds of favors don't come cheap you know...


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Kmurph</b>!
> Good luck finding your "fantasy" deal then Skywalker, b\c I don't see any other team taking Jalesn Rose off your hands. Oh, they will gladly give you an expiring contract and a young player for Carter straight up perhaps, but that won't really help TOR for the next few years. Carter's play of late isn't helping to raise his trade value either.
> 
> IF I were POR I'd stick with the deal they "supposedly" counteroffered with SAR, DA & Stepania for Rose and Carter essentially. Take it or leave it, and good luck finding another team out there willing to give you something better.
> ...


Hey, my original idea was Vince and Marshall for SAR, Outlaw, Monya, and a first. That actually gives Portland another expiring contract to deal with and a backup for Zach in the mean time. I guess that's the opposite end of the spectrum, financially it's very easy to swallow.

I don't know how dead set Babcock can be if he's forcing teams to take on Jalen too. As I've said, Portland is basically the only team that could do such a thing. 

Reef, DA, Outlaw, and Ha might work for me. It hurts to get so little for your superstar (as this doesn't actually put us that far below the cap) but at least Outlaw and Ha are intriguing.


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## Trader Ed (Jun 17, 2002)

I have always liked the idea of getting Carter, Rose and Marshall. If we moved Rahim without getting a backup PF who can play C in a pinch, we would be suicidal. An injury to Zach or Theo would be devastating.

With the way Rahim is playing they are going to cautious in there return of players in any trade. Rahim is very consistant in what he produces. He has his off games as well, but like Zach, through effort he produces something at all times. He did an admirable job on D on McGrady last week.

Of course any influx of guards needs to be met with dealing a guard.


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## Trader Ed (Jun 17, 2002)

I am against dealing Outlaw and Monia, if for no other reason a future roster of Telfair, Monia, Khryapa, Outlaw, and Randolph intriques me. Telfair and Outlaw work well together. I appreciate Darius, but I do nto see him being around long term.


How about this as an alternate trade after Dec 15th????

Portland trades Rahim $14.6 mil exp + Darius $6 mil BYC + Stepania $1.1 mil = $21.7 mil
Portland also includeds the rights to Ha

Toronto trades Carter $12.6 mil + Marshall $4.6 mil exp + Moiso $1.8 mil = $19.0 mil


Moiso and Stepania are included to help with the BYC status of Miles

Rahim and Miles gives Toronto some bulk and quickness to go with their other youngin's


We are still overstocked at the 1-2, and do not get a shooter.... but it might fill the seats


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## kaydow (Apr 6, 2004)

> I am against dealing Outlaw and Monia, if for no other reason a future roster of Telfair, Monia, Khryapa, Outlaw, and Randolph intriques me. Telfair and Outlaw work well together. I appreciate Darius, but I do nto see him being around long term.


No doubt, TB. Outlaw maybe. Outlaw, Monya, + pick? No way, No how. I'd rather take on Rose's contract, than take Marshall if we have to give up 2 young guys, plus (what could be) a lottery pick. Monya is a guy that I'm really excited about. The guy can stroke it, and play SG. As far as I'm concered, Monya and Telfair are almost "untoachable". We may not ever see the "old" VC again. Plus, the "old" VC had some flaws in his game anyways(defensive effort wasn't always there) Sure, I'd love to have him, but TO is kidding themselves if they think they're going to get several prospects + expiring contracts only for him. Forget it!!


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