# Game 26: Cavaliers vs Magic



## Larry Hughes for Retirement (Jul 5, 2004)

Just wanted some place to post about he game lol...

I know I cant touch Remy's game thread so I wont try, but as it looks the Cavaliers are really trying to put it into Zydrunas in the early start.

While after every defense of rebound we are running off the defensive stop, thats encouraging!


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

My bad I should have put up a game thread. Z with a good start but Hill playing real well


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## Larry Hughes for Retirement (Jul 5, 2004)

Are offense is still all jumpers, open looks, but nonetheless its still jumpers. Were not the Kings/Spurs not everyone from Center-Point Guard can hit a 15 footer with great confidence. 

Arroyo and Nelson are licking their chops coming into the Q thus far.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Got to love the big donut so far from our starting backcourt


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Wesley for Retirement said:


> Are offense is still all jumpers, open looks, but nonetheless its still jumpers. Were not the Kings/Spurs not everyone from Center-Point Guard can hit a 15 footer with great confidence.
> 
> Arroyo and Nelson are licking their chops coming into the Q thus far.


If you can't hit open jump shots though defense sags more which makes it harder to score going to the basket catch22


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Z starting off strong. He's playing with energy and confidence, getting offensive rebounds and hitting inside shots. 

Naturally, it's time to sit him down.


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## Larry Hughes for Retirement (Jul 5, 2004)

Does anyone watch the HBO series "The Wire" ... Donyell Marshall looks just like "Bubbles" the homeless guy... anyone?


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

^ I think I'm going to rent the Wire this weekend: everyone raves about it


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## Larry Hughes for Retirement (Jul 5, 2004)

Lebron for once looked like Lebron of the playoffs, he is setting the tone, going to the hoop after one move, not alot of standing looking, jab step, look, dribble... his just attacking no matter what... i like it


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Brandname said:


> Z starting off strong. He's playing with energy and confidence, getting offensive rebounds and hitting inside shots.
> 
> Naturally, it's time to sit him down.


We can't break our awesome rotations


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## Larry Hughes for Retirement (Jul 5, 2004)

Pioneer10 said:


> ^ I think I'm going to rent the Wire this weekend: everyone raves about it


Its really good, Its in its 4th season, I've never seen teh previous 3 years. But I didnt feel like I was behind at all, this years series was good.

But you will really really laugh when you see "bubbles" the "street-depo man" ... exactlyu like Marshall with his current hair-do... haha


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Z is playing inspired basketball right now. And he's our only guy who can effectively bother Howard with his length.

He's going to be very important in this game.


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

You know how some players just seem to make good things happen when they're on the court?

Donyell Marshall is not one of these players.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

God I hate when Z blows layups. It's my only real problem with him


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Brandname said:


> You know how some players just seem to make good things happen when they're on the court?
> 
> Donyell Marshall is not one of these players.


ROFL


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## Larry Hughes for Retirement (Jul 5, 2004)

Love Z's effort, but that hookshot has got to go. 

Along with Larry


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## Larry Hughes for Retirement (Jul 5, 2004)

Pioneer10 said:


> God I hate when Z blows layups. It's my only real problem with him


haha doesnt that piss ya off?

I have no idea how tall you are but its like me blowing a layup on a 8'6 hoop in my drive way (again and again)


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Larry Hughes = jumpshots ≠ made jumpshots ≠ slasher


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Wesley for Retirement said:


> Love Z's effort, but that hookshot has got to go.
> 
> Along with Larry


Z's sweeping hook has to be in contention with worst shot in the league. Competing with Eric Snow's jumpshot, Donyell Marshall's layup attempts, and anything done by Ben Wallace. 

He means well by it, and I appreciate that he's trying to expand his repertoire. It's just that the shot never falls. And it's usually not even that close.


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## Larry Hughes for Retirement (Jul 5, 2004)

I am startying to cry


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

I swear we have the worst homecourt "advantage" in terms of refs


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Crap what happened to Lebron


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## Larry Hughes for Retirement (Jul 5, 2004)

You see Lebron hit the deck again and again, but you always see him get up. Maybe Larry should take a page out of his book and be 'tough'.


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Damn, Lebron's hurt. 

If he comes back to play, it'll be a good chance for Larry Hughes to watch a real man play through pain. And without fear.


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## Larry Hughes for Retirement (Jul 5, 2004)

Can you just amagine our *starting* point guard being able to take people to the rack like that :-(


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Good, Lebron's ok. 

I swear, he's as close to a man of steel as we have in the NBA right now.


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## Larry Hughes for Retirement (Jul 5, 2004)

FSN Ohio "I love his activity level (marshall)" Thats because he is a walking zombie this whole season. 4 boards in a half is amazing.


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## notting_hill (Dec 18, 2005)

We tied at last.


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Wesley for Retirement said:


> FSN Ohio "I love his activity level (marshall)" Thats because he is a walking zombie this whole season. 4 boards in a half is amazing.


There isn't really a whole lot else to compliment him about.


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## Larry Hughes for Retirement (Jul 5, 2004)

I hate that... I hate that more than anything... Is when a man will slap a guy on the wrist a 6'10 275lbs man going to the hoop, and you just slap him on the wrist, and one.


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## Larry Hughes for Retirement (Jul 5, 2004)

WHAT? A foul?


BTW, With the 10th pick of the NBA draft the Cleveland Cavaliers select "Jameer Nelson" (not Luke Jackson)

What are the odds that Zydrunas gets about 4 attempts in the 2nd half?


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

An unforeseen consequence of calling all these unnecessary ticky-tack fouls is that everyone just plays the game scared of drawing a foul all the time.

So many of our guys are always in foul trouble.


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

I hate Eric Snow.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

How in god's name can Eric Snow being play consistent minutes in the NBA let alone start. It's freakin baffling


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

I'm beginning to despise Hughes as much as Snow


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Pioneer10 said:


> I'm beginning to despise Hughes as much as Snow


Yeah, he plays completely terrified. He's not helping our team at this point. What is he, 1 for 20 or something?


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

WTF is Eric Snow still our starting PG? Jesus you can't be anymore freakin wide open


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

I'm serious how much would better would our offesne be if we just happened to have a guard who could actually his a jumper consistently and also finish around the hoop?

Caron freakin Butler would make us a championship contender for heaven's sake.


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Eric Snow simply can't start for this team anymore.

He could be the best defender in the league, and it wouldn't be worth it. He CAN'T SHOOT at all. I am going to rip my hair out.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Lebron needs to step up here. We're tied but we need him to finish off the Magic


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

That was the fastest 3 seconds against Dwight I've ever seen.


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## Bron_Melo_ROY (Apr 12, 2004)

Brandname said:


> Eric Snow simply can't start for this team anymore.
> 
> He could be the best defender in the league, and it wouldn't be worth it. He CAN'T SHOOT at all. I am going to rip my hair out.


either can Larry Hughes but we have no other choice for SG....Because he plays like a *****.


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Bron_Melo_ROY said:


> either can Larry Hughes but we have no other choice for SG....Because he plays like a *****.


At this point, Sasha at SG would benefit the team more than Larry. At least Sasha finishes around the rim like a man instead of a scared little girl.


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Does anyone else feel like Lebron seems energized today after having the extra time off? Maybe Brown should consider giving more time off in general. 

I'm not sure we work on our offense during practices anyway.


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

I don't think that was an offensive foul on Jameer. I think the refs called that because we had momentum.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Defense really keeping us in this game right now. If we had any sort of offense we could put a big lead up here


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Lovely Snow/Jones backcourt coming at you now.

Drew Gooden has flipped into his Good Cavalier routine. Where has this Drew gone?


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Pioneer10 said:


> Lovely Snow/Jones backcourt coming at you now.
> 
> Drew Gooden has flipped into his Good Cavalier routine. Where has this Drew gone?


It's just that we need to get him touches. Force feed him the ball down low so he gets into every game.

I think we need to start running plays for him. When he gets off on the offensive end, he really gets into the games. When he doesn't, he's absent from games. 

In my opinion, the solution is to force him to get into every game. Force feed him the ball. Run plays for him. The man's obviously offensively talented enough to score down low, he just needs to be involved. He's better than just a garbageman, which is almost what we're using him as now.

We started going to him, and he's been responding positively. Let's hope he keeps it up.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Brandname said:


> It's just that we need to get him touches. Force feed him the ball down low so he gets into every game.
> 
> I think we need to start running plays for him. When he gets off on the offensive end, he really gets into the games. When he doesn't, he's absent from games.
> 
> ...


Yeah that's the problem with Drew and Mike Brown. If you don't use Drew's offesnsive capabilites, his other deficiencies greatly outweight his positives at thta point


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Marshall fouled him? I can't stand Marshall as well


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## Larry Hughes for Retirement (Jul 5, 2004)

Pioneer10 said:


> I'm beginning to despise Hughes as much as Snow


I am gaining followers of Hughes Hatred


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## Bron_Melo_ROY (Apr 12, 2004)

Z really got up fort his game


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## Larry Hughes for Retirement (Jul 5, 2004)

Are we really this bad with Lebron on the bench?


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

We've shot around 35% for like 4 straight games.

I have a hard time believing it's not the offensive system. We're not going to win very many games like this.


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## LostInGeorgia (Jun 29, 2006)

looking for a 7-3 white center from eastern europe, if found please return to the Q, needed for 4th quarter


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

LostInGeorgia said:


> looking for a 7-3 white center from eastern europe, if found please return to the Q, needed for 4th quarter


If it's the normal Mike Brown system, Z will likely sit the entire 4th quarter.

Good thing we took him out with 2 fouls in the second quarter.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

we need to get James shots more as well: he's only taken 11 right now


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## Larry Hughes for Retirement (Jul 5, 2004)

Brandname said:


> We've shot around 35% for like 4 straight games.
> 
> I have a hard time believing it's not the offensive system. We're not going to win very many games like this.


I agree, not every team shoots layups, they hit jumpers off double screens, they hit pick n pop shots. They hit jumpers. This cant be all on Mike Brown these guys consistently missing shots.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Brandname said:


> If it's the normal Mike Brown system, Z will likely sit the entire 4th quarter.
> 
> Good thing we took him out with 2 fouls in the second quarter.


Can't mess with our rotations: they'be been working real well


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## Larry Hughes for Retirement (Jul 5, 2004)

Sasha really cant play? That bad?


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Wesley for Retirement said:


> I agree, not every team shoots layups, they hit jumpers off double screens, they hit pick n pop shots. They hit jumpers. This cant be all on Mike Brown these guys consistently missing shots.


I think you misunderstood me.

Having said that, I also agree with you. It's up to our players to hit their open shots. And they've definitely had their share of open shots. This is largely their fault, too.


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

I really, really like this lineup. We should use it much more.


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## Larry Hughes for Retirement (Jul 5, 2004)

Lebron got the ball with 19 on the shot clock, passed it too Gibson with 6 left on it, bad 3 pointer from the corner as usual... 1st quarter we attacked... now we wait and see what might happen


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## LostInGeorgia (Jun 29, 2006)

i just looked at the shot chart on yahoo, and i see two makes outside the paint, that means are other 23 makes are in the paint...take a hint boys, stay in the paint


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## Larry Hughes for Retirement (Jul 5, 2004)

Ughhh


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## Larry Hughes for Retirement (Jul 5, 2004)

LostInGeorgia said:


> i just looked at the shot chart on yahoo, and i see two makes outside the paint, that means are other 23 makes are in the paint...take a hint boys, stay in the paint


Or we are just that bad of shooters from 12 feet out?


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Sasha is Mike Brown's punching bag. He can't stand up to his veterans who sucks as much as Sasha (Hughes, Marshall, Snow, etc, etc) so uses Sasha as his escape valve. Really stupid.


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Wesley for Retirement said:


> Or we are just that bad of shooters from 12 feet out?


A lot of it is the fact that our bad shooters (Snow, Hughes) take a billion outside jumpers per game. Especially Hughes. ugh


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Why don't we throw Lebron in the post. Change it up a bit?


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

No, Austin and Fred are wrong. That wasn't an offensive foul at all.

Ariza slid underneath Lebron while he was in the air. That was a dangerous play.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Right now the Magic have 4 guards who have more points then Hughes. Do something about that Larry


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Goddamnit Larry that was a terrible shot.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

There we go Lebron


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

For everyone here, I apologize for ever doubting Lebron.

It's pretty obvious to me now that he was just fatigued. He still has 10x the heart of anyone else on our team.

Finally a drive by Larry!!!!


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

The Magic have 3 guards who individually have more points then our starting backcourt. That's a problem right there


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Any foul on Bo Outlaw is a good foul


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## Larry Hughes for Retirement (Jul 5, 2004)

hahah Larry Sucks


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

If Hughes is hurt freakin play Sasha. Pathetic


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## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

Big 3-ball by LeBron.

Been busy today (setting up job interview, personal life, blah blah). Good to be here now though.


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## Larry Hughes for Retirement (Jul 5, 2004)

Danny Ferry: Hey Larry we want you to come in and slash and be an active attacking player 

Larry Hughes: Ahh Ferry must be a sarcastic guy, he really wants me to shoot jumpers, I know he does.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Hell play Shannon Brown; he had a good game his last time out


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## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

7,000 points for LeBron! The quickest ever to reach that mark!


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## Larry Hughes for Retirement (Jul 5, 2004)

Skip Balis I hope your watching.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Lebron trying to take over


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## Larry Hughes for Retirement (Jul 5, 2004)

Pioneer10 said:


> Hell play Shannon Brown; he had a good game his last time out


In his suit


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Wesley for Retirement said:


> Skip Balis I hope your watching.


Those shots had nothing to do with skill: Lebron can just jump high


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## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

Pioneer10 said:


> Hell play Shannon Brown; he had a good game his last time out


This must be taken with a grain of salt but a season ticket holder on the official Cleveland Cavaliers website said he heard that Ferry is listening to the fans' suggestions/complaints. Rumor has it that Brown is receiving special attention from the coaching staff to improve his jumper. I find that strange because driving is by far Shannon's best skill (we are trying to make a slasher more of a shooter). So they want him to improve his jumper for now. The irony of this is that we make a scrub work extra hard on his shooting but we have a guy like Snow who needs to practice as well, not present at these special shooting sessions. LOL


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Kind of odd Orlando not going with Dooling: he really hurt us


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Blah bad pass by lebron


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

And he quickly makes up for it


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

We're getting a burst of energy right when we need it.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Brandname said:


> We're getting a burst of energy right when we need it.


We're gettign a burst of the King. Can't say other then Z in the first quarter this team was impressinve


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Incredible defense by Gibson.


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## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

LeBron once again... That is the final nail in the coffin. 18 points in the final quarter.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Brandname said:


> Incredible defense by Gibson.


I could see Gibson turning into a Lindsey Hunter type of player. He's got real good potential on D


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Lebron with a giant 4th quarter.

Mike Brown needs to give this man more rest.

He doesn't really need practice anyway.


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## Larry Hughes for Retirement (Jul 5, 2004)

I remember in high school my coach would always say, It doesnt matter who starts the game, it just matters who finishes the game. 

Well Gibson usually finishes the games, but why put ourselves in that hole from the start, just start with your best lineup. (gibson,hughes,bron,gooden,z)

But that could be why my HS coach got fired the year after ;-)


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Lebron has scored over a THIRD of our points today lol


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## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

What in the **** was Arroyo doing there? The game is over but that was a STUPID foul.


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## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

*Box Score*

*Cleveland 86, Orlando 83*


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Our backcourt statistics are disgusting.

We have one of the highest paid SGs in the league, and he's worthless.

How could our backcourt be this bad?


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## Larry Hughes for Retirement (Jul 5, 2004)

Somebody please look at Larry Hughes statline. That will make ya really wish Sasha wasnt in the dog house.


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## Larry Hughes for Retirement (Jul 5, 2004)

Brandname said:


> Our backcourt statistics are disgusting.
> 
> We have one of the highest paid SGs in the league, and he's worthless.
> 
> How could our backcourt be this bad?


Roughly 19 million invested into our backcourt this year?


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## Bron_Melo_ROY (Apr 12, 2004)

Great game by Bron, we still need to sort some things out. Did someone say Ferry was listening to fan insight about problems with the Cavs or was it just a misinterpretation?


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Hughes has to see how Lebron gets whacked gets up and keeps going at it. Instead of taking all those jumper he needs to penetrate


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## cima (Nov 6, 2003)

4/10 from the FT line...that is flat out terrible. how is he so bad from the FT line? it seriously baffles me...


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

c p 9 said:


> 4/10 from the FT line...that is flat out terrible. how is he so bad from the FT line? it seriously baffles me...


:shrug:. Yeah no excuse for that


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## Bron_Melo_ROY (Apr 12, 2004)

c p 9 said:


> 4/10 from the FT line...that is flat out terrible. how is he so bad from the FT line? it seriously baffles me...


always looking at the negative eh.....Anyways, he still carried us so I'll take the good with the bad. Our bench is getting less and less productive. Mike Brown needs to take a hint or Danny Ferry needs to deal with it.


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## cima (Nov 6, 2003)

Bron_Melo_ROY said:


> always looking at the negative eh.....Anyways, he still carried us so I'll take the good with the bad. Our bench is getting less and less productive. Mike Brown needs to take a hint or Danny Ferry needs to deal with it.


dude, 4/10 from the foul line is NOT something you can look past. if we played an elite team, and he shoots like that, there's no way we win. 4/10=40 %= worse than shaq and ben wallace.

i don't know what it is. his jumpshoot is good. but his ft shooting is atrocious.


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

c p 9 said:


> 4/10 from the FT line...that is flat out terrible. how is he so bad from the FT line? it seriously baffles me...


It's mostly just bad form.

If you notice, he doesn't bend his knees enough when he shoots. And his flow is off at the top of his extension. He releases the ball a little too late. These are the things our shooting coaches should be working with, and they can be solved pretty easily. 

Hughes does the same thing.


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## Bron_Melo_ROY (Apr 12, 2004)

c p 9 said:


> dude, 4/10 from the foul line is NOT something you can look past. if we played an elite team, and he shoots like that, there's no way we win. 4/10=40 %= worse than shaq and ben wallace.
> 
> i don't know what it is. his jumpshoot is good. but his ft shooting is atrocious.


I agree its a problem that he needs to address but, we still have bigger fish to fry. I dont understand how he can shoot everything but a free-throw but he'll figure it out soo, i thought he was making progress defore this game. But he went 40% from the stripe this game, Ben and Shaq do that every night.


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## cima (Nov 6, 2003)

Brandname said:


> It's mostly just bad form.
> 
> If you notice, he doesn't bend his knees enough when he shoots. And his flow is off at the top of his extension. He releases the ball a little too late. These are the things our shooting coaches should be working with, and they can be solved pretty easily.
> 
> Hughes does the same thing.


it's his fourth year in the league...he should have it fixed by now.


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

c p 9 said:


> it's his fourth year in the league...he should have it fixed by now.


I agree. It's inexcusable, and he should have corrected it by now.

I improved my foul shot from about 70% to about 85% in just a few months of working on form. There's no reason he shouldn't be able to do the same.

Of course, he takes such a beating in the lane, I really don't know how he feels when he's shooting them. 

But his shot in general needs work, and it's mostly just form issues that he's gotta get corrected.

He should his form right, and then he should spend hours and hours in the gym perfecting the jump shot so he can actually use it as a weapon. Right now, he's much streakier than consistent.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

When he misses it's usually a focus thing. When he first started that kiss the wrists move, you could tell he was thinking about what he was doing, and it served to center him at the line and that way he could focus on the free throws. But now that he's done it so much, he rushes through the kiss the wrist thing, and rushes up his free throw, and ends up missing.

That's youth. I think it's the same reason he still shoots the occasional air ball.

As he gets older and more mature, I think those things will go away to a large extent.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

> *CLEVELAND - *This is how a Most Valuable Player delivers.
> The Cavaliers were in dire need of heroics Saturday night, and appropriately their hero finally came through. LeBron James reprised his signature performances of last season, taking over in the fourth quarter to lead the Cavs to a 86-83 victory over the Orlando Magic at Quicken Loans Arena.
> *It was hardly a command performance from the home team and there is plenty left on the plate to address, but what the Cavs needed first was a win to break their three-game losing streak.* For a long time it looked like that wasn't going to happen against the scrappy Magic (17-12), then James found his groove.
> He scored 13 consecutive points in the final four minutes, lifting the Cavs (15-11) from a one-point deficit to a seven-point lead that they hung onto.
> ...


http://www.ohio.com/mld/ohio/sports/basketball/nba/cleveland_cavaliers/16311491.htm


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

futuristxen said:


> When he misses it's usually a focus thing. When he first started that kiss the wrists move, you could tell he was thinking about what he was doing, and it served to center him at the line and that way he could focus on the free throws. But now that he's done it so much, he rushes through the kiss the wrist thing, and rushes up his free throw, and ends up missing.
> 
> That's youth. I think it's the same reason he still shoots the occasional air ball.
> 
> As he gets older and more mature, I think those things will go away to a large extent.


I doubt it. Lebron has shot in the ~70-72% range his entire career, even in highschool. He goes through hot streaks and slumps, different techiniques, etc. but if you notice he always comes right back to that range.

His jumpshot mechanics were actually better in highschool, so I think he will certainly improve in that area.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

This was the first Cavs game in two years that I didn't watch. This team has gotten so boring and frustrating to watch that I'd rather just wait for the final boxscore and see it that way.

I watched the Knicks get blown out by Philly instead, ha.

Hopefully they use this break to hire an offensive coordinator and start implementing something approaching an NBA system. I don't really understand why we can't run. I've seen the Spurs run out of that same system we play, why can't we run?


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