# A Raptors Closedown



## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

No point in making threads for each game, week or month anymore. None of them matter at this point, we're a franchise that needs to look to the offseason. 

That said, keep all game discussion in here. 

To start us off, I can't believe we dropped those back to backs against the Nets. On the plus, more lottery balls is always a welcome, as is New Jersey pulling away. 

We're a bottom 5 ball club and I think we'll end the season that way.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

Utah got us at home. 96-94. Al Jefferson with a game winner after Barbosa had brought the score level with a sweet 3 ball. 

Amir Johnson went down early too, anyone got news on whether it's serious? He was playing pretty well and already had 2 blocks in the first 8 minutes. Ed Davis got a chance at big minutes and didn't board half as well as he has done lately, that could be down to the fact Reggie Evans is back and got himself 11 boards. Ed did score pretty well though.


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

There a young team breakdowns like last night are expected and comes with the territory I too am looking to the offseason in particular the draft and the upcoming NCAA tourny Raps have the space and picks to improve in a short amount of time


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

Yeah, my eyes are focused on the tourny rather than the Raptors regular season woes. 

On a side note, Perry Jones has been deemed ineligible. Although I doubt Baylor made the cut anyways with a pretty shoddy record.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

Put a beatdown on the slumping Pacers. It is nice to pick up a win every now and then, so long as they don't repeatedly happen. Lottery balls are more important than saving face at this point. A point that isn't lost on Bargnani and his 1-13 FG night. 

Reggie Evans is back to his best. 16 rebounds. 1 point. 0 FG attempted. Fantastic stuff. 

Ed Davis with 12/13 and a couple of blocks. My favourite rookie since DeMar  

Barbosa was exceptional last night. Hitting the long threes not to mention a dagger right after Granger had brought the Pacers into consideration. He stole Demars spin move a couple times earlier in the game too. This guy really is the perfect 6th man. I wish we were a contender, this guy deserves the playoffs.


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

The Pacer game really brought attention back to an issue we discussed early in the season. What to do with Reggie and Barbosa?

These guys are special. Career bench players that totally outshine most of the Raps. You can't easily replace them. And when they have played well we won more games. They give us a real spark. Its more than numbers.

If we don't want to completely go into the crapper as a franchise I think we need them around for a couple of years to keep things respectable and help the young guys become good pros.

Moving Bargs makes keeping Reggie easier as you still want Amir and Ed getting 28+mpg and if we draft a legit C he can hopefully learn from Reggie and Amir and Ed.

We don't want to suck this bad for too long and drive out our young players.


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## Junkyard Dog13 (Aug 9, 2003)

draft Sullinger and put him at C, physical interior F who has a 6"11 wingspan thick built would do better at C, i think, compared to Love by nba draft.net. Physical force inside can finish nice inside willing banger who will put n effort to wear down opposing unlike bargs who is not a willing banger.

add someone like Crawford and have him play SF and rotate him and Dd between the 2&3, retain Barbosa, maybe retain reggie to be the #2 C or #3 PF.
Add a vet PG to back up Jose draft a PG in the 2nd, I think J.Johnson bring back n look to perhaps move Klieza in a trade as he is better suited to a 7th man and with James Johnson, I rather have him start, Klieza is decent but if there is a opportunity to get Crawford, I take Crawford over Linas.
A starting unit of Calderon/Derozan/Crawford/Bargnani/Sullinger with off the bench Barbosa J Jhonson Amir vet PG could be good enough to get up to 6th in the east.
I like the versitility n ground James brings, I think its better for coming off the bench for the 2nd unit.
We have lots of cash and Crawford is among the best Fa available, he would solve our inability to hit 3's from the 2&3 spots.


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

Does anyone think Jay Triano is a better coach than Sam Mitchell? I can't help but think he isn't, seeing how **** we are against the Pistons right now. These guys look clueless.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

I think it's difficult to judge Triano on the seasons we have seen him in control. After a certain amount of time you gotta wonder if it's the players and not the coaches that suck balls. 

Stomped those Wizards last night. DeMar dropping 30, Bargnani getting 33. Ed Davis only played 12 minutes, think Coach might have noticed he's been playing an awful lot lately for a rookie and may have been hitting the wall.


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## jayk009 (Aug 6, 2003)

what's the raptors record with Reggie Evans in the lineup? 

I can't help but think they would be in the playoff hunt if he didn't get injured


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## ballocks (May 15, 2003)

with evans .409 (9-13); without .234 (11-36). 

either way, when reggie evans is _that_ important to how well your team plays, you know you have issues.

i'm still not excited about the future of this team. at best, the current group might improve to the 40-win level... which is exactly where they were last year. in that event, how many steps backward will have been taken to achieve the same mediocrity? *shivers* 

they obviously need a *major* piece from the upcoming draft and, god willing, another key building block by way of the remaining $9.1 mil bosh tpe. all they have today is a collection of pieces from several different puzzles. they don't fit together.

i mean, look at it like this: you draft a pg, what do you do with bayless? for that matter barbosa? draft a wing, what do you do with james johnson? for that matter kleiza... or again, barbosa? draft a big, so what do you do with bargnani, amir and davis (much less the affable evans, whose positive impact to the team and- waning- community goodwill is undeniable)?

for a guy who suffers from excessive pride and stubbornness seemingly... _always_, bryan colangelo will have no choice but to clean up his own mess this summer. and that assumes he'll even be here to do it.

i mean, his toys are everywhere- and i'm not sure he even knows what he's building anymore. we can only hope.

mind you, i'll say this: if the raptors were ever going to bring in a new GM, now would be the time to do it. it's a lot like 2006- there are quite a few assets to play with. the only reason the situation is at all complicated and/or cloudy, imo, is because colangelo has invested himself in so many of these wild cards. if a new pilot were to take the cockpit and, for example, not be afraid to move andrea bargnani, the team could conceivably climb up the standings rather quickly. put it this way: from a bird's eye point of view the raps look to be in a very flexible position- but they need to _*want*_ to be flexible first. that's the key issue here imo. 

in that sense, colangelo might be his own worst enemy this summer- or his own best friend. 

we'll see who comes out of it. 

peace


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

I think the main reason why we're even discussing Reggie Evans "impact" to the team is still Bargnani. Because Bargnani is such a terrible rebounder and creates such a weakness for the Raptors, having someone like Reggie Evans in the lineup at least corrects that weakpoint to a certain extent. Having Reggie is obviously not enough to turn the Raptors into a winner, but at least it is better than having a team that cannot rebound.

I've said this before that I want to see a frontcourt of Amir/Ed Davis. If we end up drafting a big man it is even more important that we get rid of Bargs in order to open things up for either Derrick Williams/Sullinger/Enes Kanter.

Perhaps we can trade Bargnani to New Orleans for Trevor Ariza. David West is gone so the Hornets might be interested in replacing West's scoring with Bargs. The Raptors get a defensive minded 3 in Ariza and a shorter/smaller contract. I would also offer Bargnani to the Grizz for OJ Mayo. Marvin Williams in Atlanta would be another possible trade for Bargnani. Anyway, the main point I'm trying to make is that everything becomes easier once we move Bargnani. The team is simply doing too much trying to cover things that Bargnani cannot do.


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

The guy the Hawks MUST move imo is Joe Johnson. His contract extension is just starting to hit them hard and he has many years left. They will pay Joe, Josh, and Al 42 mill next year and are over the lux tax line already with just 7 contracts and not resigning Crawford. That team has peaked and is heading down. Raps could take Hinrich or MarvWill off their hands for TPE and maybe a pick in Marv's case. And then maybe Zaza and S/T Crawford for Bargs to give them some scoring? No, I dont' see them wanting Bargs for 4/40.

I am thinking GS, or maybe HOU for a Bargs trade. S/T Yao for 2-3 year deal and take a shot there. Or maybe POR for Oden. Bargs is nice instant offense bench guy, just overpaid for that role. MIN for Darko/Pekovic. MIN for S/T EdCurry 1 year deal (basically salary dump, may not even have EC show up).
PHX for Nash and we take Chill or Frye for the TPE if they want to dump LT salary.

I am sure there are trades out there but they will probably be high risk type deals or crappy return.

No faith in BC as the guy to put it all together though.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

Ed and Amir had a chance to be the 4 and 5 last night, what did everyone think? Ed was a beast, 21 points with 11 rebounds and 3 assists. I've been saying it all year but nothing wrong with repeating myself so I'll say it again: 'he's easily my favourite Raptor in a long time' ...

No idea how we wound up losing that game to the Clippers though :laugh: ... Still it moved us into 4th spot for the Draft Lottery, every cloud and all that


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

lucky777s said:


> The guy the Hawks MUST move imo is Joe Johnson. His contract extension is just starting to hit them hard and he has many years left. They will pay Joe, Josh, and Al 42 mill next year and are over the lux tax line already with just 7 contracts and not resigning Crawford. That team has peaked and is heading down. Raps could take Hinrich or MarvWill off their hands for TPE and maybe a pick in Marv's case. And then maybe Zaza and S/T Crawford for Bargs to give them some scoring? No, I dont' see them wanting Bargs for 4/40.


Saying the Hawks MUST move Joe Johnson is like saying the Raptors MUST make Bargnani average 10+ rebounds a game. Actually, I like the chances of Bargs averaging 10+ boards over the Hawks finding some dummy to take Joe Johnson's contract. Long story short, it's not going to happen. The only way they move Joe Johnson is to trade him for another terrible contract similar to Lewis for Arenas. But then again if they are going to do something like that they might as well just keep Johnson around because whoever they end up getting would suck as well.

Now that Sullinger is out of the draft I think the Raptors should focus on Harrison Barnes.


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## ballocks (May 15, 2003)

this draft is looking so much better the last few weeks. i'm hyped.

peace


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

Some interesting prospects in the draft but Sullinger and Barnes potentially being out does hurt us. I still think Barnes could be the sleeper in the draft. He comes off passive at times like Rudy Gay did his final year and didn't seem to live up the hype. But he improved as the season went on and has all the tools.

If he's out I think we end up with a PG at our pick. Top 6 could possibly be:

Irving - he or Williams look to go 1. Not a great tournament but showed flashes
Derrick Williams - can he be a SF like Igoudala? word is is teammates laugh at his jumpshot in practice
Kemba - has a bit of Iverson in him - good or bad?
Knight - nice little PG but is he a star
Morris twins - what is their real size
Perry Jones - shows flashes of being a decent SF but is he more of an ARandolph project

I like some of the UConn kids as late firsts, and Shelvin Mack could be a decent pro too. The Duke kid Nolan would have been another late first candidate with lower risk. Skeen is a nice player but I don't think he gets a long look in the nba. May make a ton of money overseas though.

The top part of the draft looks very tricky. Unless it surprises and produces a number of good players there will be some bad flameouts in the top 6 or 7 I think.


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## kirk_2003 (Jun 23, 2003)

Jeremy Lamb came on strong in the second half of the ncaa championship game and has quietly been playing behind kemba's shadow in the whole tourney. If he comes out, he has enough talent and size to be a lotto player this year.


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