# D Wade vs Kobe



## FLORIDA MARINE (Jun 22, 2006)

Now I know how you guys are going to respond to this, but its very likely that Kobe will never have a Finals MVP. This Finals by Wade is better than any Finals Kobe has ever had, despite Shaq being less dominant now. Wade shot 47%, and Kobe has only shot over 41% once in the Finals, vs NJ when he took just 16 shoys a game. If Kobe played as well vs Detroit as Wade did this year the Lake Show would have another ring.

I think Wade and Lebron are better than Kobe right now, and they are only getting better. Without Shaq Kobe's best days are probably behind him. Yes, I know he won the scoring title but he should do that leading the league in shot attempts. I know Kobe is as athletic as anyone but he also had the worst 4th QTR FG% in the league this year. See if you can be hones and rate these 3 without the Kobe-Hater nonsense. They are both by far better at this stage of their career than he was, thats not a question but I think they are better right now also. Wade and Lebron are better passers, rebounders, shot blockers, and steal guys.


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## Unique (Apr 13, 2005)

Nice 1st post :wink:


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## KDOS (Nov 29, 2005)

I think Kobe is overrated.



***crickets***


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## Shady* (Jul 3, 2005)

As of right now, IMO

Kobe > Wade > LeBron

But there is no doubt in my mind that they will both become better.


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## Maddocks (Jun 16, 2006)

Kobe is Kobe and Wade is Wade, cant we just leave it at that?


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## Cris (Jun 18, 2003)

i wish, other fans wont


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## afobisme (Apr 29, 2006)

wade had a great finals, but the refs called fouls on the mavs whenever anyone got within 3 inches of him.

or there were a f ew times when wade pushed off on offense and got the foul called on the defense.

also, im not completely defending kobe... but kobe is a better defender than both of them. wade also had a better roster, he was able to preserve more energy for those spurts. wade's a better rebounder than kobe eh? wade averaged 5.7 rebounds per game vs. kobe's 5.3.... .4 rebounds per game isn't a big deal, considering that wade is playing on a better team where he doesn't need to be a big part of the offense as kobe does. kobe is at least as good as wade at shot blocking.. he's come up with plenty of big blocks.


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## West44 (Jun 29, 2005)

I'm very impressed with the leadership, ability to take over a game, and decision making of D Wade. Kobe is at least as athletic and BBall gifted as the other two. We could nitpick pluses and minuses forever. 

The bottom line is I think Miami still wins the title if you substitue Kobe for D Wade. He would have torched the Mav's D just as bad as Wade did (remember 62 in 3 qtrs). D Wade simply has a far better and mentally tough supporting cast that causes the defense to respect more options and therefore spread itself out for D Wade to operate.


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## Pnack (Aug 23, 2005)

Wade is the truth, you can't deny. His game was incredible, this kid could take the throne in a couple of years if Kobe aint careful.

Not to mention, every year Kobe gets older, while Wade is only getting closer to his prime...


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## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

Maddocks said:


> Kobe is Kobe and Wade is Wade, cant we just leave it at that?


Because this is a basketball boards site? A forum to discuss things?


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

You signed up to make this thread? Can't say that's the first time that's happened with Kobe. Florida Marine, where do you reside? Miami I'm guessing? Cool. 

You should check out the main forum, where there is much more discussion about Kobe vs. Wade from both Lakers fans, Heat fans and unbias fans (if there is such thing with Kobe) alike.


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## azn kobe jr (May 6, 2006)

they are 2 differnet players...


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## xcellence (Apr 17, 2006)

FLORIDA MARINE said:


> Now I know how you guys are going to respond to this, but its very likely that Kobe will never have a Finals MVP. This Finals by Wade is better than any Finals Kobe has ever had, despite Shaq being less dominant now. Wade shot 47%, and Kobe has only shot over 41% once in the Finals, vs NJ when he took just 16 shoys a game. If Kobe played as well vs Detroit as Wade did this year the Lake Show would have another ring.
> 
> I think Wade and Lebron are better than Kobe right now, and they are only getting better. Without Shaq Kobe's best days are probably behind him. Yes, I know he won the scoring title but he should do that leading the league in shot attempts. I know Kobe is as athletic as anyone but he also had the worst 4th QTR FG% in the league this year. See if you can be hones and rate these 3 without the Kobe-Hater nonsense. They are both by far better at this stage of their career than he was, thats not a question but I think they are better right now also. Wade and Lebron are better passers, rebounders, shot blockers, and steal guys.


 Kobe has had a better playoff run than the one Wade just had, at a younger age...

kobe's 2001 playoffs @ the age of 22: 
29.4pts 7.3rbs 6.1ast

wade's 2006 playoffs @ the age of 24:
28.4pts 5.9rb 5.7ast


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## JerryWest (Jun 24, 2002)

why don't you **EDIT** post under your real nick'

Do not attack other users.

-LF


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## Maddocks (Jun 16, 2006)

Zero Hero said:


> Because this is a basketball boards site? A forum to discuss things?


yeah but do you really need to discuss something that the 2 players themselves probably dont even care about?


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## essaywhuman (Aug 10, 2005)

xcellence said:


> Kobe has had a better playoff run than the one Wade just had, at a younger age...
> 
> kobe's 2001 playoffs @ the age of 22:
> 29.4pts 7.3rbs 6.1ast
> ...


Shaq and Kobe in 2001 were amazing. 15-1. Shaq dropping 40 and 20 games at home, Kobe dropping 48 and 16 on the Kings then 45 and 10 against the Spurs. I miss those days.


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## Cris (Jun 18, 2003)

KennethTo said:


> why don't you **EDIT** post under your real nick'
> 
> Do not attack other users.
> 
> -LF


 ive checked, this is a new member. it was the first thing i considered reading this


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## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

FLORIDA MARINE said:


> Now I know how you guys are going to respond to this, but its very likely that Kobe will never have a Finals MVP. This Finals by Wade is better than any Finals Kobe has ever had, despite Shaq being less dominant now. Wade shot 47%, and Kobe has only shot over 41% once in the Finals, vs NJ when he took just 16 shoys a game.


The Lakers were never lucky enough to play a paper team like Dallas in the finals, otherwise this year it's possible that even if the Lakers didnt win the series, kobe could have gone off for another 62 in three quarters. He didnt do that because he is the best guard in the game... He did that because Dallas is soft and have had horrific problems guarding proactive and fast guards. I don't remember the exact amount kobe has averaged on Dallas over the last two seasons, but it wasn't pretty.. And theres a reason behind it.. SOFT.



FLORIDA MARINE said:


> If Kobe played as well vs Detroit as Wade did this year the Lake Show would have another ring.


Detroit barely got past the Cavs. Detroits biggest flaw this season was thinking they can live on there jumpshooting and newly found lazy defense. What got them there wasn't there ability to shot, but from making sure others couldn't shot agaisnt them. With Flip, came offensive minded team. It showed to be a mistake. As the players started turning on Flip, it was said that Detroit rarely even worked on defense this season, unlike years before... When Larry Brown made defense a focal point of their entire practice. If they had played under Larry Brown this season, Heat would have been fishing more than likely with the Lakers. And Cavs wouldn't have won more than one game.



FLORIDA MARINE said:


> I think Wade and Lebron are better than Kobe right now, and they are only getting better. Without Shaq Kobe's best days are probably behind him. Yes, I know he won the scoring title but he should do that leading the league in shot attempts. I know Kobe is as athletic as anyone but he also had the worst 4th QTR FG% in the league this year.


Unfortunetly, most people whom get the ball dumped off on them as much as kobe does in the 4th, with mere seconds left, have a bad FG%.

What people whom hate Kobe as much as you do fail to see is no one has to take the fourth quarter shots as much as Kobe in the NBA. 

Unlike Lebron and Wade, who actually have a supporting cast capible of taking fourth quarter shots, the Lakers have Kobe Bryant. Lamar Odom has been given the chance a few times this season to take the final shot and all but what once, or twice failed horribly. What do you expect? The Lakers starting pg is a guy named Smush Parker who was one bad practice in the offseason away from being sent back to the NBDL. What final minutes shot is he going to take? Or How about Kawme Brown, the guy folds under pressure like a deck of cards.

But your right the Lakers do have guys like Brian Cook, who are super clutch... Oh wait... Nevermind. 

The Probablem is that Kobe doesn't have guys like Hughes, Walker (durning the playoffs at least), Williams, Payton, Ilgauskas, Jones, Murray, Snow, Gooden, Williams, Anderson, Haslem, Posey, etc. Guys who make critical clutch fourth quarter shots, or defensive stops... 

The lakers got guys like Luke Walton, Smush Parker, Chris Mihm, Kawme Brown, Brian Cook, etc. Most of those guys wouldnt even start on most of the other teams in the nba.

Until Wade or Lebron get a supporting cast like Kobes, they will never have to worry about taking every final minute shot there is.

I know your probably just going to ignore this post, because your set in your ways... But you should probably think out your reasoning before spewing it out in a forum where no one cares anyways.


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## shobe42 (Jun 21, 2002)

Kobe became argumentively the best player in the L during the 2nd title run... he was only 22...

Wade is one helluva player tho... dont put wade and LBJ in the same area tho... Wade is 24... LBJ is like 21...

at 24 Kobe put up 9 40 pt games...

Kobe has basically been the player he is today since hes been 22 more or less... 

LBJ is the best passer out the group, although in pheonix series Kobe showed hes seriously underrated there...

Kobes the best scorer followed by LBJ, followed by Wade...

Kobes also the best defender followed by Wade, then LBJ...

reboundings a wash b/c they all do it well enough as permeter players...

and dont compare Wades finals to Kobes... during the title run the finals were anticlimatic... look what Kobe has been doing to spurs, and kings over those years... particularly those spurs teams he used to torch similar to how wade did these Mavs...

No doubt however that Wade is the man of the moment...


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## UD40 (May 12, 2005)

Shadyballa8D13 said:


> As of right now, IMO
> 
> Kobe > Wade > LeBron
> 
> But there is no doubt in my mind that they will both become better.


Yup, Kobe is the best player in the NBA, Wade is the second best, then from there it's debatable.


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## FLORIDA MARINE (Jun 22, 2006)

Wade took a huge percentage of the Heat's shots in the 4th quarter of this series. Kobe has shot like a dog in 3 of 4 NBA Finals series with a more dominant Shaq. Thats my point, I don't know if your boy Flowbee ever shot 50% in HS. My point about Detroit was the Finals vs Lakers, where Kobe shot 38% and jacked up 8 more shots a game than anyone else. LUKE WALTON led the team in assists playing 19 minutes a game. Kobe gave away that Finals by trying so damn hard to be the man. KB is as athletic as anyone but he sure should shhot a better % in the Finals, when you know Shaq was the main focus, especially for the 1st 3 Finals. All of you guys hyping up the Heat supporting cast weren't sayong that a couple of months ago, its funny how your perception changes

Bottom line the Heat are on that short list that has a chance every year and the Lakers are not. They traded the wrong guy, whether you hate Shaq or not he makes thing easier for everyone else on the court. I'm sure Kobe realizes this now. You all are probably too young to remember but Penny was 1st team ALL-NBA in 2 of his 3 yrs with Shaq and shot over 50% twice. Everyone thought he was "great" at the time, its so much easier to be the 2nd fiddle than the man!


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## afobisme (Apr 29, 2006)

bottom line is the officiating. im not complaining, but if you watch how they gave wade calls.. then you'd understand.


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## FLORIDA MARINE (Jun 22, 2006)

*SHOBE Re: D Wade vs Kobe*

Its not all about points, if that was the case we would be talking about World B Free. Lebron and Wade are the first perimeter guys to shoot close to 50% and score close to 30 since MJ. There are at least a couple dozen guys in the league that can score that much if they jack up 30 shots a night. When has a team won a title with their primary shooter shooting in the low 40's or worse. Thats why they didn't have a prayer vs Detroit. And if they are sending extra bodies pass the ball!! My point is simply that Wade and Lebron are only getting better, and they already possess a better all-around game, or are at least playing like it. I don't want to hear about teammates, if you're great make them better! MJ shot 50% for his career and he went years with scrubs as teammates til the late 80's. Of course he had to battle those great Celtic teams, who along with the 80's Lakers I think are better than any teams since. As great as Jordan was its tough to beat a bunch of Hall of Famers.


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## FLORIDA MARINE (Jun 22, 2006)

*AFOBISME Re: D Wade vs Kobe*

I'm not disputing that they gave Wade calls, but he made a bunch of jump shots as well. I hate these new rules where you can't breathe close to someone on the perimeter. Its ridiculous, I don;t want to see the Bad Boys or Riley's Knicks but this is like European ball.


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## Pain5155 (May 28, 2006)

Shadyballa8D13 said:


> As of right now, IMO
> 
> Kobe > Wade > LeBron
> 
> But there is no doubt in my mind that they will both become better.



Wade over LeBron hell no. Wade has shaq and if hes getting doubled wade racks up the points. LeBron has no one and carried the cavs to game 7 against the pistons. LeBron is a better player in ever aspect of basketball then wade. Lebron>Wade. Better in assists, points, rebounds, every category, and if u give leBron shaq he wouldve won the title.


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## Maddocks (Jun 16, 2006)

I agree most with CDRacingZX6R 

and it does go, Kobe-Lebron-Wade


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## Shady* (Jul 3, 2005)

Pain5155 said:


> LeBron is a better player in ever aspect of basketball then wade. Lebron>Wade. Better in assists, points, rebounds, every category,


Actually, no. Wade is the better assister.

And those aren't all the categories, and even if a player is better than another statistically, that doesn't always mean they're the better of the two. You cannot measure defense by statistics, and Wade is far better than LeBron there. Wade also has a better FG%, better stealer, and better free throw shooter, not to mention that he does all of that in less minutes.



> and if u give leBron shaq he wouldve won the title.


You can make that arguement for any player in this league.


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## Roscoe Sheed (Jun 19, 2006)

It is close, but I think Kobe is better for the following reasons: he is bigger, he is stronger, his shooting range extends further than Wade, and he is a better ballhandler.


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## KDOS (Nov 29, 2005)

Shadyballa8D13 said:


> Actually, no. Wade is the better *assister.*


 :raised_ey


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

Right now, it's Kobe, Bron, and then Wade. Finals MVP or not, purely based on talent and from watching them all, that is how I rank em


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## taurus515th (Oct 13, 2005)

Id have to say Kobe is much better. Like someone said Wade has Shaq. I can not wait to c how Wade does when Shaq retires. until then its not fair to judge. another reason y Wade gets so many points is because this game is more focused on offense u can not play defense. As we all know the best way to win a basketball game is if u play defense right so now since u can not really play defense anymore without a foul being called how can teams win? if Wade runs to the basket and throws up an air ball the refs call fouls even tho they didnt c contact. Also like someone else said Wade got fouled if the Mavs got 3 inches on him. Lol it was true. the only reason y Wade had 43 points was because of getting 25 fta's he scored like 7 in the first 6 in the second and wut ever i can not remember. the only reason Miami did win was because it was fixed thats a different story which im not going to get into they won already and i need to let it go. Im going to stick with Kobe being better.


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## West44 (Jun 29, 2005)

FLORIDA MARINE said:


> My point about Detroit was the Finals vs Lakers, where Kobe shot 38% and jacked up 8 more shots a game than anyone else. LUKE WALTON led the team in assists playing 19 minutes a game. Kobe gave away that Finals by trying so damn hard to be the man.


The way I remember it Malone was injured, Devean, who was important on 'D', was injured, Shaq wasn't his best and Detroit had suddenly jelled itself into an excellent team hell bent on stopping Kobe.

btw - shooting percentage is affected by the # of 3's you take (Wade hardly takes any), the amount you shoot, and the quality of shots you get which is often dependent on your teammates.



FLORIDA MARINE said:


> All of you guys hyping up the Heat supporting cast weren't sayong that a couple of months ago, its funny how your perception changes


Really - you've got two superstars, Posey, Haslem, J Will, Payton, Toine, Mourning and you're trying to play the "Wade's supporting cast isn't that good" card relative to our team? 



FLORIDA MARINE said:


> Bottom line the Heat are on that short list that has a chance every year and the Lakers are not. They traded the wrong guy, whether you hate Shaq or not he makes thing easier for everyone else on the court. I'm sure Kobe realizes this now. You all are probably too young to remember but Penny was 1st team ALL-NBA in 2 of his 3 yrs with Shaq and shot over 50% twice. Everyone thought he was "great" at the time, its so much easier to be the 2nd fiddle than the man!


Unfortunately, I'm not too young to remember recent history such as Shaq & Penny at all. There is some truth to the statement that the best is Shaq's sidekick. The proof is there. Everyone knew we traded the wrong guy in the short term. Long term, our guy is 26, isn't that far away from a finals MVP, and Shaq's expiration date is coming soon. Rub it in while you still can...Wade will be experiencing Kobe's fate in a couple yrs and we'll see if he does a better job.


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## Pain5155 (May 28, 2006)

bottom line Kobe rite now, LeBron maybe 2marrow.

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## pmac34 (Feb 10, 2006)

ok.. so arenas can be compared to wade.. who can be compared to kobe


so kobe can be compared to arenas....
kobe>wade>>Arenas


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## Pain5155 (May 28, 2006)

Kobe>Nash

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## lakers_less_340+ (Aug 3, 2005)

KobeBryant08 said:


> Wade is the truth, you can't deny. His game was incredible, this kid could take the throne in a couple of years if Kobe aint careful.
> 
> Not to mention, every year Kobe gets older, while Wade is only getting closer to his prime...



One fact you seem to overlook is Shaq is not the same player he was during the Lakers run and they both complimented each other. However, Kobe was awesome in the Lakers three championship and never got a gift call with 1.9 seconds left on a phantom foul, in fact since I can remember I have never seen a foul called at the end of a game that decided game 5 and I am 52 years old. In the 

2001 playoffs Kobe averaged 29.4 ppg, 6.1 apg, and 7.3 rpg while shooting at 47% fg and 82% ft.
Shaq averaged 30.4 ppg, 3.2 apg and 15.4 rpg
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/2001.html


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## lakers_less_340+ (Aug 3, 2005)

Wade and Shaq

wade- 34.7 ppg, 3.8 apg, and 7.8 rpg while shooting 46% fg and 77% ft
shaq- 13.7 ppg, 2.8 apg, and 10.2 rpg

http://www.nba.com/heat/stats/2005/nba_finals_stats.html

You compare and you will see why Wade had better stats.


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## Dynamic™ (Jun 28, 2006)

Pain5155 said:


> Kobe>Nash
> 
> <object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/NaIBvWKc2MU"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/NaIBvWKc2MU" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>


That was uncalled for....And for a Nash fan, I am disgusted.....Oh, and Wade was better in the Playoffs.


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## Mamba81 (May 17, 2006)

Kobe is the best don't forget that. I could look like the best player in the NBA too if I had Stern and the refs on my side like Wade has.


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## Dwyane Wade (Oct 12, 2004)

Wade is #1 hands down, hes #1 in efficancy rating, and im not even going into jersy sales, my saying is waht Wilbons saying is..*You can have LeBron James. You can have Kobe Bryant. You can have any pick on the playground . . . anybody from here to China. Just let me have Dwyane Wade.*


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## Dwyane Wade (Oct 12, 2004)

Mamba81 said:


> Kobe is the best don't forget that. I could look like the best player in the NBA too if I had Stern and the refs on my side like Wade has.


Wade's earned the respect, he takes it hard to the rim, like AI, hes earned the respect, b/c he takes it hard to the rim too..


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## Kneejoh (Dec 21, 2004)

Dwyane Wade said:


> Wade's earned the respect, he takes it hard to the rim, like AI, hes earned the respect, b/c he takes it hard to the rim too..


 Thats what's wrong, because of his "reputation" Wade is getting calls. That's what's wrong with this situation, you know something is up when a single player shoots more free throws then another team in an NBA finals game with both teams being equally physical.


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## Mamba81 (May 17, 2006)

thug_immortal8 said:


> Thats what's wrong, because of his "reputation" Wade is getting calls. That's what's wrong with this situation, you know something is up when a single player shoots more free throws then another team in an NBA finals game with both teams being equally physical.



Thank you very much, someone had to say it.


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## DBurks2818 (May 18, 2005)

thug_immortal8 said:


> Thats what's wrong, because of his "reputation" Wade is getting calls. That's what's wrong with this situation, you know something is up when a single player shoots more free throws then another team in an NBA finals game with both teams being equally physical.


It's funny. Due to the new rules limiting contact on the perimeter, star wing players (like Kobe) had been getting to the line more times per game all season long and building the most 40+ scoring games the league has seen in a long time. And people weren't complaining, because their guys were taking full advantage of these new rules. Hell, Kobe and Dirk averaged the same FTAs as Wade, and they're primarily jumpshooters. Dirk even set a playoff record (surpassing Jordan) for FTAs as a 7-foot jumpshooter.

Then, when everyone's favorite teams are knocked out of the playoffs and the team that they rediculed out of spite all season long for having "an old roster with too much talent and too many egos to ever win a championship" climbs the mountain to win a championship behind one of these star perimeter players (that has benefitted from this new officiating like the other stars had, again, been benefitting from *all season long*)... and all of a sudden the officiating is 'one-sided.'

:boohoo:


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## Kneejoh (Dec 21, 2004)

You just proved me right, you said during the regular season " All the stars had been benifitting from it", what I said that I think is wrong with the situation is that in the Finals, Wade was the only "star" still beniffiting from these calls. And when he shoots more FT than the opposing team that tells me not everybody is benifitting from those calls.


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## DBurks2818 (May 18, 2005)

thug_immortal8 said:


> You just proved me right, you said during the regular season " All the stars had been benifitting from it", what I said that I think is wrong with the situation is that in the Finals, Wade was the only "star" still beniffiting from these calls. And when he shoots more FT than the opposing team that tells me not everybody is benifitting from those calls.


The stage doesn't matter. The league doesn't (nor should it) change its rules on what contact is necessary for a foul to be called just because it's the playoffs. 

Like I said, Dirk broke Jordan's record for most FTAs in one playoffs *as a jumpshooter*. And in pivotal game 4 vs. the Spurs he took 25 FTAs and won the game on a call even more questionable than the one Wade got in game 5 of the finals. Nothing more needs to be said on that.

Finally, not sure if you actually watched those games, but there were only a handful of times per game that Dallas even drove the lane looking to draw fouls and, I'll admit, 2-3 of those 5 trips in games 5 and 6 the refs didn't reward the Mavs. But that's the ratio of bad calls in every NBA basketball game every year. You can't start complaining about it now.


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## BallStateCards (Oct 14, 2004)

FLORIDA MARINE said:


> Now I know how you guys are going to respond to this, but its very likely that Kobe will never have a Finals MVP.


It's likely Wade will never have a consistent jumper.


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## Dwyane Wade (Oct 12, 2004)

ClayVTrainum said:


> It's likely Wade will never have a consistent jumper.


Maybe yoru right, i hope not, but hey if he hits his jumpers in teh playoffs and finals like this year i'll be happy so will all the other heat fans, the only thing that matters is the playoffs, reg season has really no meanign, jsut devolope some kind of team chemsitry and get in...


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## Dwyane Wade (Oct 12, 2004)

thug_immortal8 said:


> Thats what's wrong, because of his "reputation" Wade is getting calls. That's what's wrong with this situation, you know something is up when a single player shoots more free throws then another team in an NBA finals game with both teams being equally physical.


equally agressive? See thats where your wrong , they ovbously weren't equally agressive b/c if they were they woulda shoot more foul shots, Dallas is a team tahts shoots jumpers, their not a team like miami that pound it in the paint..


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## Kneejoh (Dec 21, 2004)

Both teams were equally agressive on defense, yet the Heat got away with murder on Nowitzki and the Mavs couldn't get withing 3 feet of Wade without a whistle being blown.


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## Dwyane Wade (Oct 12, 2004)

thug_immortal8 said:


> Both teams were equally agressive on defense, yet the Heat got away with murder on Nowitzki and the Mavs couldn't get withing 3 feet of Wade without a whistle being blown.


Fine if you want it put it liek that fine, lets put it like this, "both teams were equally agressive on defense" but then clearly both teams weren't equally agressive on offense, Miami was clearly the team to pound it in while Dallas was shooting from the peremiter...


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