# Around the NBA Offseason Thread



## nutmeged3

Use this thread to watch for other teams signings and offseason moves

Kapono just got 6 mil and year and Walton got 5? I guess Carroll's value just shot up.

and VC just re-signed with New Jersey for 4/61.8


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## Diable

*Re: Around the NBA- Offseason Thread*

I guess this means VC knows who isn't his biggest fan...God I would have had a stroke if he'd signed carter to a contract like that.It's a business decision for the Nets ownership.As a basketball player Carter just isn't worth that sort of money.Like a certain prominent North Carolinian once noted _But Vince doesn't play defense_.It really and truly angers me to see a guy out on the floor making it so obvious that he doesn't care enough to try.


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## dnbman

*Re: Around the NBA- Offseason Thread*

Let's give VC some credit. In Toronto he was pretty despicable. But he's been playing with a fair amount of heart most the time in NJ. I just don't think he has the fearlessness to attack the rim he once had. 

As for Walton and Kapono, I'm chalking it up like this: 

Luke was an important glue guy in LA and has a pretty well rounded game. 
Kapono got WAY overpaid. 

Hopefully Matt will understand this.


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## Ruff Draft

I don't know Matt's game too well, but what does he have in common with Kapono? What do they have different?


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## dnbman

They're both primarily three point shooters. Matt's a little scrappier and Kapono is a little more polished. 

The biggest difference is Kapono drew double teams off Wade and Shaq all season, giving him tons of open looks.


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## nutmeged3

We've experienced Kapono before and I'll stick with Carroll.


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## dnbman

http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/46860/20070702/report_lewis_agrees_to_sign_with_magic/

An Orlando TV station is reporting that Lewis is signing for a 5 year 75M contract with the Magic. 

Good for them.


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## Diable

That would also mean that Darko is a UFA.Only way that the Magic could sign him for that much would be to renounce their rights to Darko...Not unless they raise the cap by quite a bit when it's official on the 11th.

This would obviously eliminate all possibilities that Gerald would leave without compensation.Again I just don't see any scenario where we willingly agree to a sign and trade.


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## Diable

I would guess that the only teams with the capspace to give Darko more than the MLE would be Charlotte and Memphis if you assume that Milwaukee re-signs Mo Williams.I was think earlier today that Charlie Bell might not be a bad idea for a backup point.He's not that great,but he's a good defender,has good size for a point and he plays hard.The LA paper was talking about Steve Blake getting the full MLE...Which is ridiculous when the guy isn't even better than BK.No way we can get a quality backup point without trading something nice away.

I'm sort of conflicted over Darko.He's got great potential just like always,but he hasn't ever done anything to merit the sort of contract he's going to get.We do need another big and he wouldn't have to be that great to really help us.Memphis could outbid us most likely.I don't know...We need another big for sure.


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## nutmeged3

Darko's Memphis #1 target isn't he? I mean he'd be great beside Emeka I just can't see him coming here or seeing us even contacting him, even though we should


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## dnbman

I'm not sure that he's Memphis's main target. They might be looking for a cheaper veteran. But, honestly, I don't really know. 

If we could get Darko for about 7-8 million, that would be splendid.


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## Diable

I don't think Darko is worth what he's going to get.I'm just saying he's big and we need someone big.He's going to be a big gamble for the team that signs him.He could either turn into a real steal or he could turn into a 50 million dollar catastrophe.


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## dnbman

Well, he put up about 2 blocks a game over the last two seasons in about 25 minutes of play. If he could get closer to 12-9 with 2 blocks, he'd easily justify the contract, especially since he's so young. He could eventually become an 18 point scorer for us if his offensive game develops like it should.


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## Diable

http://www.ohio.com/mld/ohio/sports/basketball/nba/cleveland_cavaliers/17449461.htm
This is pretty much hearsay about Memphis offering Anderson Varejao a big contract.That would be expected based on the current rumors.At any rate Memphis would be the only remaining team with much capspace if you assume that Milwaukee has to re-sign Mo Williams.This deal would leave them with very little capspace

If we can get Gerald's deal done then maybe we'll have enough space left to work something out with Darkf course we need some backcourt depth just as badly as we need another big.We need to keep Carroll and add a quality backup point somehow...Possibly using part of the MLE if go over the cap.


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## Diable

http://detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070703/UPDATE/707030432/1127/SPORTS0102

Chauncey back to the Pistons 5years 60 million.That's more than I would have given him personally,especially when there's noone trying to outbid me


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## Ruff Draft

It's a little expensive for a guard on the way down, but he is the kind of guy that you don't want to low-ball.


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## Diable

Milicic now unrestricted free agent after Magic withdraws offer
_*Now, any team in the league can sign Milicic without fear of the Magic matching an offer. Only three teams, the Bobcats, Grizzlies and Bucks, have the cap room available to offer more than the mid-level exception. A fourth team, the *__*Chicago Bulls*__*, might be able to clear enough room if they were to renounce their rights to free agent Andreas Nocioni.*_
_*If neither Charlotte or Memphis are interested, Milicic will likely have to sign a one- or two-year deal for the mid-level exception and re-enter the free-agent market next summer to look for a bigger deal.*_
_*Milicic was looking for a long-term deal averaging between $9 and $10 million a year, according to league sources. *_


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## Diable

Slew of Spurs related news from mysantonio.com.The Spurs appear to be content to stand pat and bring the same team back,minus Melvin Ely.They have re-signed Oberto,Jacques Vaughan and Matt Bonner.Also PJ Carlessimo is leaving to coach the Supersonics.Guy deserves another chance.It's amazing how Spreewell chokes him and it destroyed his career as a head coach.

I would have loved it if we could have gotten Oberto for 10.5 million over three years.I guess you get a discount when you give guys the oppurtunity to win it all.I think he'd have been worth a good deal more if he'd really wanted it.The guy did a lot of good stuff for the Spurs.Of course without Timmy he might be guarded a little more tightly.


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## Diable

http://www.denverpost.com/ci_6300564?source=rss
Hard to see how we can expect to get a quality backup point if a guy like Blake is looking for 6 million a year.Milwaukee is only offering Mo Williams 8 million so it's hard for me to see how Blake is worth six...Excluding the fact that he and BK are the only quality point guards available.I certainly don't blame him for asking.How many times in his life is a guy like Blake going to get the oppurtunity to shake down an NBA team for 30 million dollars.



> Source: *Blake seeks $6 million*
> <!--subtitle--><!--byline-->By Chris Dempsey
> Denver Post Staff Writer
> <!--date-->Steve Blake's availability to the Nuggets next season hinges on a number of factors, and he could return if all things fall into place.
> 
> *According to a league source, Blake, who is reportedly seeking a full mid-level exception - expected to be $6 million *- is not out of the Nuggets' reach.
> The salary cap and the luxury threshold have not yet been set for the 2007-08 season. The Nuggets' current payroll is about $80 million. The 2006-07 salary cap was about $53 million, and the luxury threshold was almost $65.5 million. Blake, who started at point guard for the Nuggets last season after being acquired in a trade with Milwaukee, is being courted by several teams. The Miami Herald reported Wednesday the Heat and Blake are discussing money, while the Los Angeles Lakers have reportedly cooled on Blake because of his price tag


.


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## dnbman

I understand the fear, but consider this: 

Before these guys started getting MLE money, there were a ton of pgs that displayed a wide variety of skills and were cheap. Considering how many teams have 2 o.k. pgs and the amount of young pgs coming into the league next year, I think we'll be able to get a serviceable backup.


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## Diable

League has set the cap at 55.6 million.The bobcats currently have 35.27 million in contracts before you include Matt Carroll's deal(which can't be finalized until tomorrow July 11th).That means we should have around 16 million in capspace prior to anything that's done with Gerald.

Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">The salary cap for the 2007-08 NBA season will be set at $55,630,000, ESPN.com has learned.

The number was reached after an audit of league finances and was set late Tuesday night by the players association and the league office. It will be the number teams use beginning Wednesday when a 10-day moratorium on free agent signing ends.

The mid-level exception for over-the-cap teams is $5,356,000, and the luxury tax threshold will be $67,865,000.




</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote -->http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2932279

In other news Mo Williams and the Heat are talking.I don't see Williams going to Miami unless he's willing to settle for about 3 million less than he'd get from Milwaukee,but we don't want him to even think about it.Milwaukee has no point guards on their roster,so they have to address that no matter what and anyone who wants to arrange a sign and trade would most likely need to send back a point guard.Hard for me to see Milwaukee wanting to help out Miami.


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## nutmeged3

> The Magic will finalize a contract with Lewis, the most coveted small forward on the free-agent market, today. A news conference will be held this afternoon where the Magic will announce that Lewis has signed a six-year sign-and-trade deal worth a staggering $127.2 million. According to a source close to the negotiations who asked to remain anonymous, Orlando will send a second-round pick back to Seattle as compensation in the sign-and-trade deal.


If this is true then the Magic are dumb as hell. If Rashard was able to get this kind of deal with pretty much no one else going after him then I wonder what Gerald's trying to get right now

EDIT: He's actually getting 6/118


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## Diable

As far as I am concerned Gerald is better than Lewis.Lewis is a good scorer,but he is a lousy defender,a poor passer and a mediocre rebounder.He's worth about 12 million a year and I have a difficult time believing anyone will give him 20 million a year.

It's all the more foolish when you're bidding against noone except yourself.There's absolutely no reason to pay Lewis more than you have to and you just don't have to pay him that much.Noone else was going to sign and trade Lewis for that sort of money.


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## nutmeged3

I just don't understand what would make them give him that much money, and on top of that huge contract Seattle got a 16 mil TE out of the S&T.


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## Diable

Memphis has apparently signed Darko to a deal that's been described as more than the MLE.I wonder exactly how much capspace we have left.Really the only guy who we might want to offer a decent contract to is probably Varejao and I don't think he's really worth that much.


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## nutmeged3

"Substantially more then the MLE" we couldn't have even given him that kind of contract without going over the cap could we? 

I just have a feeling we aren't going to spend any more money and were going to end up with scrubs at backup PG and PF/C


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## Diable

If we were smart we might be able to find adequate backups at reasonable prices,but we had a really good backup point and apparently there was something terrible about that.Letting BK go really looks silly now that we have enough capspace for his original deal and the options for replacing him are pretty much a recipe for disaster.Finding a couple of big bodies to backup the four/five shouldn't be a problem,but finding someone who can really help us is probably not going to happen.
Looking through this list I only see a couple of guys who fit our needs reasonably well.I guess Charlie Bell would be a pretty serviceable backup point,but he's restricted and Milwaukee would probably match anything that was reasonable.I just don't see a good big.If Voskuhl would come back for not too long and not too much he'd be as good as anything(sad to say,but I don't see anyone much better).I guess Luke Schenscher might be worth a gamble...but we'd need to send him to Sauerbraun's doctor for some juice.Chris Mihm is probably going to get overpaid or I'd consider him even if I got a bad taste in my mouth.Very few other guys that interest me except in the event we got them cheaply.Really Dale Davis might be the best fit,but he's most likely going to sit on a contender's bench.

Really might as well to look for projects,but I'd really love it if we could find someone who could at least body up with NBA centers.


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## nutmeged3

What about bringing Jason Hart back? He wouldn't cost that much and played pretty well for the Clippers last year. As far as I remember he wasn't very good while he played for us but there isn't much else that would be better


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## Diable

Grizzlies have waived Alexander Johnson.He'd fit in pretty well if we could get him in.He's not great,but he played fairly well for Memphis last year.I saw him in Vegas and he looked like he'd dropped all the baby fat.He's a very active player who could give us substantial minutes at a reasonable price.Would like to get someone better,but he's probably the sort of player we can get who'd help us on the frontline.
http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/47119/20070713/grizzlies_waive_alexander_johnson/


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## Diable

http://www.sacbee.com/100/story/272379.html
Sacremento signed Mikki Moore.Big story is the fact that he got a three year deal for the full MLE with the first two years guaranteed.The guy had a very good season,but he's a 32 year old journey man.It's a heck of a deal for him,but it makes zero sense for the Kings IMO.They need to get younger and if I were them I'd be looking to blow that team up rather.I certainly hope they don't think this is the guy who puts them over the top.


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## Diable

http://www.nba.com/jazz/news/Jazz_Sign_Free_Agent_Jason_Hart.html

Jason Hart wasn't a half-bad idea,but he's going to Utah now.I was looking at their website to see if we were going to the rocky mountain revue and I chanced upon that item.I guess we're not going to Salt Lake City by the way.


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## nutmeged3

What did Hart sign for? I don't think there's a chance that he would have picked Charlotte over Utah so good luck to him.

Just looking at the FA list (here) I guess these would be our options if were going to sign a FA at PG

Keith McLeod
Smush Parker (no thanks)
Mike Wilks
Travis Diener
Daniel Ewing
Junior Harrington


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## The Jopker

I would have much rather spent Carrol's money on Darko. I think we overpaid and that he won't get significantly better.

As for the PG, I don't know if they could have handled the situation any worse. First we keep him when he has value, then we get rid of him when he doesn't even though it's highly likely that he'll regain that value near the trade deadline. Also, we've left ourself without a quality option for the backup point slot.

Edit: Are there any decent points in the last year of their contract that we could possibly get for cheap, maybe to help somebody get under the luxury tax or salary cap?


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## Diable

Diener to the Pacers

I can't say I would have been thrilled to sign Diener as more than a third stringer I don't see who else is out there...
Francis returns to Houston

I don't think we need him,but I don't think I would pay 30 million$ to not play for us either.


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## nutmeged3

Wasn't there some kind of rumor at the deadline that we turned down Ely for Diener and Outlaw? Makes that trade look even better now that we don't have a backup point


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## nutmeged3

I guess Hudson's bought to be bought out and as long as he doesn't want much he would be a decent option


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## nutmeged3

WOW, KG to Boston, just got a lot harder for us to make the playoffs


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## Mateo

I think teams like New Jersey and Washington should be more threatened by this move than Charlotte.


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## nutmeged3

> After ten years with the Golden State Warriors, Adonal Foyle will be moving on. The team has requested waivers on the veteran center after reaching a contractual buyout agreement. Terms of the agreement are not yet known.
> 
> "We will certainly miss Adonal's presence, both on and off the court," Vice President of Basketball Operations Chris Mullin said. "However, we think this move is in the best interest of both parties as we move forward. Adonal was a true professional in every sense of the word during his decade-long tenure with the Warriors. We wish him the best as he begins the next phase of his career."


LINK

I don't know he's not very good but he would be a good backup big and we have some Warrior conections with J-Rich and Higgens.


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## Diable

I would guess that he might just go home to St Vincent and the Grenadines.He's already made 43 million playing in the NBA and now GSW is giving him 20 million to not play for their NBA franchise.Anything that we or anyone else pays him might seem a bit like chump change.I wouldn't doubt that he's been smart with his money either.He isn't much of a player,but he looks like Albert Einstein compared to most NBA players.


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## nutmeged3

Darrell Armstrong, 39, has a contract with the Indiana Pacers, but it is not guaranteed, which means he might be playing somewhere else. The Warriors, Nets, Bobcats and Mavs all have expressed some interest. "I'm not going to put the kids in school until we know where we'll be,'' he said last week. "So for now, we're all at home [in Atlanta], playing video games.''


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## Diable

I saw the Armstrong story...He actually looked really good for the Pacers last year,and if we needed to fire our new coach he'd be a strong candidate also.If we can get him cheap I'm fine with that,he's a tough guy who always gives you effort.

I saw a guy named JJ(jose juan) Barea playing for Puerto Rico today.They said he played great for the Mavs Summer league team,but I really doubt that he'll get much burn if he is signed by them(not sure of his status actually).He looks like he'd be a really nice backup actually,although he's a little short and it looks like he might like to shoot a bit more than I might like.We need anyone decent at the point.

Also Foyle signed with the Magic.

I really don't see the point of trading for Richardson if we weren't going to be serious about trying to make the playoffs this season.Unless it's just some token appease the restless natives move you have to put together a serious team after you commit to that move.If we're not going to add quality backups inside and at the point it's all just a waste of effort and we'd have been better off keeping Brandon Wright and our capspace.


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## nutmeged3

I'm pretty sure Barea was on the Mavs team last all of last year and they just signed him to a guarenteed contract.


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## ~spectre~

Diable said:


> I saw the Armstrong story...He actually looked really good for the Pacers last year,and if we needed to fire our new coach he'd be a strong candidate also.If we can get him cheap I'm fine with that,he's a tough guy who always gives you effort.
> 
> I saw a guy named JJ(jose juan) Barea playing for Puerto Rico today.They said he played great for the Mavs Summer league team,but I really doubt that he'll get much burn if he is signed by them(not sure of his status actually).He looks like he'd be a really nice backup actually,although he's a little short and it looks like he might like to shoot a bit more than I might like.We need anyone decent at the point.
> 
> Also Foyle signed with the Magic.
> 
> I really don't see the point of trading for Richardson if we weren't going to be serious about trying to make the playoffs this season.Unless it's just some token appease the restless natives move you have to put together a serious team after you commit to that move.If we're not going to add quality backups inside and at the point it's all just a waste of effort and we'd have been better off keeping Brandon Wright and our capspace.


You can't get too enamored with those guys...remember Arroyo last year? He looked awesome in the FIBA tournament but so far he pretty much sucks as an NBAer...esp. at 4 million bucks.

There isn't much "quality" left...I certainly don't consider Foyle quality. He's beef in the paint and that's pretty much it. The positive is we were interested in him, so it does look like we're addressing both issues fans seem to be most worried about.

Right now it's a buyer's market, so there's no rush to fill those 2 spots. Unlike other teams we actually have 2 open positions so we ought to get the best going into training camp.

Just to clarify...you weren't basing the chance of us making the playoffs on picking up Foyle or someone like him were you? If Fabio contines from last year and May can give us 20 minutes we're fairly deep at the PF spot (don't forget about Harrington holding down the bench) and we also have Mek/Primoz/Hollins/Davidson at the 5.

Felton will play 35-40 a game so the other position (which looks like it's going to Touche') will only get 10 minutes per.


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## Diable

http://feeds.sportsline.com/~r/cbssportsline/cb_news/~3/150579644/rss

Lonny Baxter gets sixty days in prison.I think that might derail the cntract he has to play in Spain or Italy I forgot which.Given the serious nature of the charges against him this is pretty light.It pays to have a good lawyer...Plus we have way too many idiots in our prisons to make room for one more I guess.


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## nutmeged3

Wow, that sounds really light. He's lucky as hell other then the fact that his basketball career is finished


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## nutmeged3

Alan Anderson to Cleveland?



> On Wednesday, former Bobcat Alan Anderson will work out for the Cleveland Cavaliers , according to Hoopsworld, where he says has reason to believe he'll get more than just an invite to camp. He's hoping to be playing alongside LeBron James and playing for a championship next season.
> 
> "You can't ask for more than that - a team that's always in the playoffs, a team that's right there on their way to winning a championship, and then playing with one of the greatest players in the league - you can't ask for more than that. I'm looking forward to working out for them, I'll do my best, and hopefully they take me."


LINK


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## Diable

I think that would be a great move for Anderson.Here he's going to be buried at the only position where we have real depth.In Cleveland he could earn some serious PT.Daniel Gibson and Pavlovic are pretty good players,but Anderson can compete with those guys for PT.They were even using Larry Hughes at the point last year...Anderson might be as good as Hughes and he's just as much a point guard as Hughes is.I don't know of any team in the league with a weaker backcourt than Cleveland.I hope he really does well.I don't think a great deal of his ability(not since we have Richardson for the bulk of the minutes),but he always gave us a good effort and never caused any trouble.

Other news of relevance to the Bobcats Charlie Bell and the Bucks still haven't reached an agreement and his agent is talking about going to Europe.He's also talking about the sort of money Kapono and some other guys got.Too bad for him that all the guys he mentioned were UFAs and Bell is an RFA.I got the impression that Milwaukee is really lowballing him.The QO is only 900K.Apparently only one other NBA team is talking to him and I hope it's us.He'd be the very best we could hope for,but the only way we'll get him is to seriously overpay.
I don't have the link,but it's from the milwaukee paper jsonline.com is their URL.


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## Diable

LINK
Melvin Ely signs with New Orleans.I think it's a good pick up for them.Under the circumstances Melvin would have been a decent option for us if we could have gotten him cheap,but who knows how a year on the bench has affected him.He could have backed up at PF and C which one have helped some.He's hardly played since the year our entire frontline was out,but he was pretty good then.I think he's only 27 or 28 too.


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## Diable

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Restricted free agent guard Charlie Bell has received a five-year, $18 million offer from the Miami Heat, according to National Basketball Association sources.

The Milwaukee Bucks will have one week to match the offer or relinquish the rights to Bell.

Bell said on Saturday that he did not wish to return to the Bucks. Milwaukee had offered a three-year, $9 million contract to the former Michigan State player.

Bell's agent, Mark Bartelstein, confirmed the Miami offer sheet and said Bell had visited with Heat officials in Miami on Friday and Saturday. Bell met with Heat president and head coach Pat Riley.

"I think he's excited about it," Bartelstein said. "He had a real good visit. Now it's obvious the Bucks have to make a hard decision. I'm frustrated it came to this point, but it did."

Bell is the second Bucks guard pursued by Miami during the current off-season. The Heat made a strong run at unrestricted free agent guard Mo Williams, offering him a five-year, $31 million contract. But Williams eventually signed a six-year, $52 million contract with the Bucks, who were able to offer him a significantly larger deal.

Bartelstein said Bell no longer will consider any European contract offers and will either be with the Heat or the Bucks. On Saturday, Bell said it was "time to move on" and that he no longer had the passion required to remain with Milwaukee.

"I believe it's a privilege for every player to play in the NBA, and the last thing you want is to have a player say he doesn't want to be somewhere," Bartelstein said.

"But all you can do is be honest about how you feel. Most people choose where they want to work, and his heart is just not in Milwaukee. He doesn't mean to be disrespectful or arrogant; he's just being honest." </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote -->
http://blogs.jsonline.com/bucks/arch...from-heat.aspx

I wouldn't have any problem with making this sort of crazy offer to Bell if not for the length of the contract.That's probably what it'll take to get him away from Milwaukee.If we could overpay Bell for three years that would be one thing,he's infinitely better than McGinnis,but then there are probably guys in junior high who are better than McGinnis ever was.Five years is just way too long a committment and since we've already made a committment to sucking this season we may as well do it without overpaying Charlie Bell.


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## nutmeged3

He's what 28? Yeah, 5 years is too long. I'm guessing were stuck with McInnis as our backup PG unless we bring in DA or a D-Leaguer. Ah, let's just be done with offseason and start the season


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## Diable

http://www.euroleague.net/news/i/15316/180/item

<TABLE class="newItemContentContainer articleItemContentContainer" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=dataContainer>*Virtus Bologna tabs swingman Anderson*

<!-- 

--></TD></TR><TR><TD class=otherdataContainer>







Virtus Bologna added a fourth foreigner to its roster when the club announced the two-year agreement with swingman Alan Anderson, who will make his debut in Europe. Anderson (198, 24) played two seasons with the Charlotte Bobcats in the NBA, last year averaging 5.8 points, 1.9 rebounds and 1.2 assists with 25% three-point shooting in 17 games. Anderson also played three months in the NBDL with the Tulsa 66ers, from whomo Virtus also hired point guard Will Conroy recently. In 26 games at Tulsa, Anderson posted 15.8 points, 2.9 rebounds and 45% three-point shooting. At the university level, Anderson played for Michigan State, putting up 13.2 points and 5.6 rebounds per game in his final season there. 
</TD></TR><TR><TD class=dateContainer>Thursday, September 13, 2007 
Marco Martelli, Bologna
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


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## ~spectre~

> Five years is just way too long a committment and *since we've already made a committment to sucking this season* we may as well do it without overpaying Charlie Bell.


Wish you'd back that one up instead of simply repeating it ad nauseum and ignoring those who question you about it.

Who's to say that last year isn't a player option? 4 years (or even 5) at a little over 3 million isn't a lot for a guy who plays good D and consistently shoots in the mid 40s range as well as being able to play 3 positions. Hopefully the Bucks match; I know some think we "suck", but I'd rather our division rivals continue the downward trend vs. getting any help.


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## Diable

Name one team in the NBA that has a worse bench than we do.


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## ~spectre~

Orlando, Milwaukee, Philadelphia, Detroit, Minnesota, Miami, Sacramento, Indiana...do I need to go on?

Not that we're going to put the entire 2nd unit on the floor at one time, but I'm looking at:

Touche'
Hammer
Morrison/Dudley
May/Davidson
Primoz/Hollins

Hammer started for us last year and would this year if JRich hadn't been added (y'know...that team that won 33 games?). Duds is considered one of the most NBA ready college players to come out and May (if he can stay healthy...and according to Coach V he's coming along great) is VERY good offensively. Primoz pretty much sucks defensively, but when on he's pretty deadly from outside.

Most of our starters will be playing 35+ minutes...so you're talking subbing in one or at most two guys with the rest of the starters.

Think maybe JRich won't be able to hit the basket if it's Touche' passing it to him vs. Felton?

You do realize o'course that most teams only play a 8 or 9 man rotation thru the latter part of the season and into the playoffs, right?


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## Diable

Complete nonsense and just as indefensible as our FO's offseason moves.Most of those guys aren't even real NBA players and May does not count for anything at this point.

Anyone who expects anything from May is a fool.
Anyone who goes into the season expecting to play all their starters 35 to 40 minutes should put the pipe down.It's just idiotic to expect that they'll make it through an 82 game like that.

We have the worst bench in the league andthe first injury we have will be the end of any hopes for a winning season


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## ~spectre~

Diable said:


> Complete nonsense and just as indefensible as our FO's offseason moves.


ok...I'm editing. Looks like I jumped in while you were re-writing your post.

The 2nd unit, do you think Matt Carroll "sucks"? Should we have let him walk? Who would you have brought in to replace him? I know you didn't like the McInnis signing, and honestly I'd have preferred another route...but we're talking 10-14 minutes here. McInnis can pass the ball so we should at least break even or just lose a basket or so...like I said this isn't UNC and there is no blue team.

May? I'd like to move him myself, but it's kind of hard to trade someone when they have a cast on their leg throughout the offseason. They're giving him another shot...and if he can stay healthy (big if) he IS one of the best offensive weapons we've ever had. Rookie contract too. Regardless, we drafted 2 guys to cover the PF position. Should we have taken someone instead of Dudley? I think Dudley will challenge for PT this year. The organization said that he was taken to push May.

Guess the JRich trade was "indefensible" since that was the FO's biggest move. What would you have prefer us do...keep Wright? Offer 20 per for Vince Carter? Try to outbid the Magic for Lewis?

Let Gerald Wallace walk? 

Ammo wasn't this offseason. I didn't like the choice, but he's here now. Hopefully he'll up his value and actually become a tradable asset.

Not re-up Herrmann? Re-sign Brevin Knight?

Most of us do hope we add more depth, but this is just fringe stuff...we're still only a four year team! They're looking for another big for banging, and Coach V said that he'd like Anderson to come back. That's solid depth...a lot of which hopefully we won't even use.

We're better than last year...MUCH better.


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## ~spectre~

> Anyone who goes into the season expecting to play all their starters 35 to 40 minutes should put the pipe down.It's just idiotic to expect that they'll make it through an 82 game like that.


No, but there's hardly any team that'll be able to do it for 82 games...lots of teams had a crap record last year almost solely due to injury. For 70-75 games you can assume at least 4 will make it though. Felton last year averaged 36 over 78, JRich in his last full year went 38 minutes for 75 games, Crash went 37 for 71 (and that was with a separated shoulder) and Mek went 67 at 34 minutes.

If we win a little over half of our games when we're healthy (unless we're going to get on a tangent about how none of the starters belong in the NBA either?) and about a 1/3 if someone goes down for a stretch we're STILL pushing for .500 and a shot at 8th seed.

For a 4th year team that's awesome.


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## nutmeged3

Diable said:


> http://www.euroleague.net/news/i/15316/180/item
> 
> <TABLE class="newItemContentContainer articleItemContentContainer" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=dataContainer>*Virtus Bologna tabs swingman Anderson*
> 
> <!--
> 
> --></TD></TR><TR><TD class=otherdataContainer>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Virtus Bologna added a fourth foreigner to its roster when the club announced the two-year agreement with swingman Alan Anderson, who will make his debut in Europe. Anderson (198, 24) played two seasons with the Charlotte Bobcats in the NBA, last year averaging 5.8 points, 1.9 rebounds and 1.2 assists with 25% three-point shooting in 17 games. Anderson also played three months in the NBDL with the Tulsa 66ers, from whomo Virtus also hired point guard Will Conroy recently. In 26 games at Tulsa, Anderson posted 15.8 points, 2.9 rebounds and 45% three-point shooting. At the university level, Anderson played for Michigan State, putting up 13.2 points and 5.6 rebounds per game in his final season there.
> </TD></TR><TR><TD class=dateContainer>Thursday, September 13, 2007
> Marco Martelli, Bologna
> </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


So much for the Cavs?


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## Diable

http://cbs.sportsline.com/nba/story/10363401/rss


> OAKLAND, Calif. -- The Golden State Warriors waived Sarunas Jasikevicius on Thursday, agreeing to a contract buyout with the disgruntled guard.
> Jasikevicius joined the Warriors along with Stephen Jackson and Al Harrington in an eight-player trade with Indiana last January, but the Lithuanian point guard never cracked coach Don Nelson's rotation.
> He averaged 4.3 points and 2.3 assists for Golden State during the regular season, but played sparingly during the final six weeks. Jasikevicius then played only seven total minutes during the Warriors' run to the second round of the playoffs.
> "We think this was in the best interest of both parties," said Chris Mullin, the Warriors' top personnel executive. "As a competitor, Sarunas obviously would like to have an opportunity to play a significant role on a team. This could potentially open up other avenues that will allow him to pursue that opportunity."


I really don't think very much about this guy,other than that he used to be a very good long range shooter.He was very highly regarded when he played for Maccabi Tel Aviv,but in the NBA he just hasn't performed.On the other hand he'd be a huge upgrade over McInnis.At the minimum he's a semi-competent backup point guard which is more than can be said for anyone on our roster or anyone else we might possibly get now.


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## nutmeged3

He hasn't been much of a PG though has he? I mean im sure he'd be better then McInnis but from what I've read he's been playing more SG then point.

also


> Forward Michael Ruffin signed with the Milwaukee Bucks on Saturday after playing the last three seasons with the Washington Wizards.
> 
> Ruffin, a 30-year-old free agent, has spent seven years in the NBA. He also has played with the Utah Jazz and was drafted in the second round by Chicago in 1999.


LINK


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## Diable

He plays the point...but he's not very good,especially as a playmaker.I would bet on him going back to Europe or maybe Israel.Cleveland is the obvious place for him,James can be the primary ballhandler in the halfcourt and he could just focus on his shooting...Which doesn't mean that the Cavs don't need a real Point.Like us they just aren't likely to get one.


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## nutmeged3

So Cedric Simmons is given away by the Hornets? Great trade by the Cavs not really sure what the Hornets were thinking. Too bad we didn't take advantage


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## nutmeged3

> Marc Jackson signs with Europe team
> Just days after releasing one big man signed in the off-season, Olympiacos has found another, Marc Jackson, who will make a return to Europe after several seasons in the NBA. Jackson (208, 32) agreed to a one-year deal and arrives in Piraeus to replace Lawrence Roberts, who was released a few days ago by the Reds.


LINK

Options are just disappearing, 2 people we were supposedly interested in (Ruffin and Jackson) are both gone.


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