# Livingston?



## meru (Jul 2, 2003)

Hi: I'm a Blazers fan who's wondering about your views on Shaun Livingston. Do you think he's a future star? Is he a fan fave? What's his game like? Is he ever going to be a big scorer? Is he the PG of the future, or just one in a long line of so-called big PGs who switched to SG pretty soon (Steve Smith, Jalen Rose, Penny Hardaway, et al.)? Is he too slight and therefore injury-prone to have a good career?

Any feedback appreciated. If you want to swap him for Sebastian Telfair, I'm sure it could be arranged...


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## squeemu (Jan 25, 2006)

Some people absolutely hate Livingston and some think he is just fine. Of course, when he has a good game, everybody sings his praises.

Anyway, I think he is right now a decent guard who needs a bit more experience before he realizes his potential. In a few years he could be a superstar if he doesn't get hurt and if he tries hard. I'm glad he's on the team and hope that he sticks around.


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## jcwla (Jul 3, 2005)

i would change one word:
when he has a decent game everyone sings his praises.


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## meru (Jul 2, 2003)

Wow - talk about being damned with faint praise. Not to mention, not getting many responses. I haven't seen him play AT ALL, so any description of his game would be welcomed. I see from his stats that he's not scoring. In fact, he doesn't seem to be doing much at all - is that unfair? Are people ready to call him a bust yet? (You should hear what people say about Telfair on the Blazers board.)


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## marbinski (Aug 16, 2005)

I think Livingston is doing just fine as he tries to put a "full season" of games on his belt after being in the league for 2 years. He has shown ample amounts of brilliance with his time on court, but we all see what areas he still needs to work on. Ex. (Getting the ball up the court b4 the 16 sec. mark) 

During the game yesterday, Coach D told him to drive to the basket, and he attempted and got the shot in easily. He then looked at coach and acted like...damn...you were right...I can burn my defender off the dribble. 

Right now I believe he's a good backup for Cassel when he needs rest. His jumpshot needs a lot of work, but that all comes with practice. I think he will be just fine in the long run.

Livy is full of potential and he knows it, but really has to put in more time to develop himself off the court so that he can improve just like how EB did last summer!

Give him another year of the NBA and he'll show the league why the Clippers drafted him!


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## squeemu (Jan 25, 2006)

meru said:


> Wow - talk about being damned with faint praise. Not to mention, not getting many responses. I haven't seen him play AT ALL, so any description of his game would be welcomed. I see from his stats that he's not scoring. In fact, he doesn't seem to be doing much at all - is that unfair? Are people ready to call him a bust yet? (You should hear what people say about Telfair on the Blazers board.)


I wasn't trying to sound negative about Livingston, I was just trying to be realistic. I am definitely rooting for him and hope he turns into one of the best players the Clippers have ever had. As of now, however, he has occasional moments of brilliance mixed with normal to below average moments. Hopefully with practice and experience that will change! He is young so he has a great opportunity to play for many years.


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## Weasel (Oct 18, 2003)

People have high expectations out of Livingston. So far he hasn't really shown that. You see flashes in him that show he can be a great player and other times so see him brick shots. I still think it is a big to early to judge him as he in my book is still a "rookie". Last year he did much better but time will tell. I would like to see him after he puts in one full healthy summer under his belt.


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## DaFranchise (Jun 29, 2005)

Livingston is the future of this team and is going to be a star. Im not down on him at all this year. You have to take in consideration that he missed all of pre season. The kid is still learning the game. Anyways, I would NEVER trade Livy for Telfair.


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## endora60 (Jan 5, 2006)

Livingston is going to be something special one day.

Right now, Livingston for Telfair is a sixes trade. Nothing gained, nothing lost on either side. The only real difference at this point is that Livingston doesn't "accidentally" bring loaded guns on international flights and then try to hide the gun in a pillow case. 

Laurie


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## universal! (Mar 5, 2006)

Livingston is taller than Telfair, and a might be a better fit for the Clips (with the undersized Mobley and Brand).

Livingston has excellent court vision to go with excellent passing ability and handles. He's also very creative with the ball (most of the time in a good way). In short he has all the talent to be a very special PG. However, he has on court mental lapses that occur much more often than his occasional brilliant play. His jump shot isn't reliable yet and he doesn't finish around the rim as well as he can. He seems to lack an aggressiveness:



> During the game yesterday, Coach D told him to drive to the basket, and he attempted and got the shot in easily. He then looked at coach and acted like...damn...you were right...I can burn my defender off the dribble.


sums up very well his attitude at times. He has the quickness, length, and ball handling to drive to the hoop, but doesn't.

But I wouldn't trade Livingston. He's not played that often due to injuries (which shouldn't be an issue in the future, as long as he bulks up a little more; which he has since coming into the league. Remember he's still what, 19-20?), and needs to get some confidence in his game. After some regular playing time learning the game, his confidence will improve and with that so too will his play be consistent.

Oh, Livingston probably won't ever switch to SG (when he has played as SG, he's been pretty bad at it). His game and natural tendency is that of a pass first PG.


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## NOBLE (Apr 10, 2005)

DaFranchise said:


> Livingston is the future of this team and is going to be a star. Im not down on him at all this year. You have to take in consideration that he missed all of pre season. The kid is still learning the game. Anyways, I would NEVER trade Livy for Telfair.


 Summed up my feelings.

I watch the Blazers forum because they have my other favorite players Telfair and Darius Miles and the hatred there is THICK for 31. JEEZ.


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## universal! (Mar 5, 2006)

Blazers fans are that ruthless? They don't realize it takes time for most rookie PGs to develop (there are exceptions of course), especially those straight from high school?

Forgot to mention that Livingston is a pretty good on ball defender (big wingspan, quick hands, quick feet), and will probably get better. His team defense isn't too shabby either.


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## ElMarroAfamado (Nov 1, 2005)

i dont hate Livingston hahaha 


but i dislike him....the sucky thing is that when he has a "good" game he doesnt do much 

he has like 0 points , and lets say double digit assists, but for a player of the "future"


that should be enough....with 0 points ? 2? 6? he cant make free throws , he cant shoot 

his inability to shoot, just makes him turn it over at times...he gots soooo deep in the paint at times

why cant he just finish?????

like ive said, i dont think he is the future of **** 

just cuz hes tall and people hyped him up out of high skool...but eh

ive give the chance i think Daniel Ewing would be a better Pg

dont get me wrong ...he has flashes...but even those "flashes" arent that great...he gets in a good

pass, aint that would a pg supposed to do??? and yeah we dont need his offense right now, 

but hei s going to have to start getting more than 2 points a game eventually 

until he becomes a mediocre scorer atleast....i wont want him to be the future....id take anything

else.....


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## squeemu (Jan 25, 2006)

ElMarroAfamado said:


> hei s going to have to start getting more than 2 points a game eventually


Well then it's a good thing he's averaging 5.2! :biggrin:


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## El chido (Dec 21, 2005)

I am a big fan of Livingston, and even though he has given me a lot of headaches I still believe in him. I would like him to be a scoring machine but I come to realize that he probably will never be a big scorer which with EB and Kaman we probably do not need him to be a big scorer but instead be a solid PG. 

I think that he is learning and with time he will become a solid PG. When he reaches his potential he should average around 12-15pts 8-9assists and 4-7rebounds which this would be solid numbers coming from him. He should reach this potential (with no injuries) in the next 2 years which will be great since by that time if we resign Cassell he should be retiring and Livi will only be 22 or 23 years and Livi should take over the starting PG position. 

I think that we just need to be patient with this boy, and let him make the stupid mistakes that young guys make, and with time he will reach his potential. Also I think that most of his turnovers come from being agressive, so he will learn with experience on when to pass the ball and when to shoot. Also I think that he is realising that he can take his man to the hole and he is looking for that more.


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## Wilmatic2 (Oct 30, 2005)

Livingston will be a good player. He still needs seasoning.


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## clips_r_teh_wieners (Nov 4, 2005)

no point in bashing him cuz the management wont even consider moving him especially when he hasnt even played a full season yet. when i mean full season i mean 82 games in his career


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## universal! (Mar 5, 2006)

squeemu said:


> Well then it's a good thing he's averaging 5.2! :biggrin:


on a 39% FG%...
and 60% from the line.... ouch


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## ElMarroAfamado (Nov 1, 2005)

"on a 39% FG%...
and 60% from the line.... ouch"

hahhaha

i mean...yea its a matter of seeing how he pans out ...and when he reaches his "potential"


but...i dare compare...that to....oh some guy named Michael Olowokandi...HAHA!!!!

maaan, i know thats a harsh comparison...but it looks like he is going down the same road, and i just

hope he doesnt become the type of plague the "candy man" was 

"Getting Rid of Michael Michael Olowokandi was the best move the Clippers have done in franchise

history" hahahahh Bill Walton said that i believe.....

and i mean yeah obviously i dont hate Shawn after all he is a Clipper :biggrin: 

but.....i mean its frustrating....he has so much potential his height...dribbling skills..passing skills....

do you guys remember that reverse dunk??? hmmm

i think the most important thing he needs to learn how to FINISH when he is in the paint ...

either dunk, layup, floaters...when he masters that or even learns it :clap: 

cuz he gets sooooo deep in the paint...and he is so close to the rim...but i guess he is scared to 

finish and he gives it up, and it works sometimes , but he also turns it over like that..hmm

i think with EB locked up a couple more years and Cuttino, and maaaaaaaaaybe Chris 

we just need a good PG to take this franchise out of the gutter and continue playing above 

500 ball 

and im loving it by the way :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: 

:biggrin:


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## universal! (Mar 5, 2006)

woah, you've gone over the line there comparing Kandiman to Livingston. Livingston actually has skills and plays pretty hard. I wonder if Livingston's previous injuries have taken a mental toll on him?

If Livingston can develop into a decent PG (sad really if you think about it, to settle for decent. Sometimes Livingston makes plays that make me believe he's the second coming of Magic) the Clips can keep Kaman around, the Clips can be contenders for a few years.


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## DaFranchise (Jun 29, 2005)

universal! said:


> woah, you've gone over the line there comparing Kandiman to Livingston. Livingston actually has skills and plays pretty hard. I wonder if Livingston's previous injuries have taken a mental toll on him?
> 
> If Livingston can develop into a decent PG (sad really if you think about it, to settle for decent. Sometimes Livingston makes plays that make me believe he's the second coming of Magic) the Clips can keep Kaman around, the Clips can be contenders for a few years.


No kidding. Livingston is only going to get better. He is playing damn well in the 2nd quarter vs the Bulls right now.


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## DaFranchise (Jun 29, 2005)

Has anyone been watching the past few games? Livingston has been more aggressive and is attacking the D with his dribble. I love the way he comes off the bench with Vlad and Maggs. They are extremely explosive.


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## squeemu (Jan 25, 2006)

DaFranchise said:


> Has anyone been watching the past few games? Livingston has been more aggressive and is attacking the D with his dribble. I love the way he comes off the bench with Vlad and Maggs. They are extremely explosive.


And shooting much better than 38%. I don't know why people are so uptight about his scoring, anyway. His role isn't to score, it's to bring the ball up and to get assists. Scoring is second.


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## paperclip (Mar 24, 2006)

Scoring isn't the big deal, but if you're shooting 38% your opponent is gonna back off and that eliminates the dribble. He's gonna get more opps to blow by and penetrate if he's got guys guarding him tighter.


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## universal! (Mar 5, 2006)

squeemu said:


> And shooting much better than 38%. I don't know why people are so uptight about his scoring, anyway. His role isn't to score, it's to bring the ball up and to get assists. Scoring is second.


It doesn't matter if how much he scores, but it does matter that his percentage is so low (especially from the FT line). He has to be able to knock down the outside shot, especially with Brand and Kaman in the middle, or he has to be able to drive and finish.


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## DaFranchise (Jun 29, 2005)

yeah is livingston still a bust? The kid is playing better each game. He is going to be a superstar.


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## El chido (Dec 21, 2005)

I think that his confidence is way up.
With the experience that he gets this year in the playoffs and a good summer of improving his shot and good training camp he should be ready to start by next year. Now that is if he does not gets injured.

Playoffs here we come :banana: :banana: :banana: 

Go Clippers Go :clap: :clap: :clap:


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## DaFranchise (Jun 29, 2005)

El chido said:


> I think that his confidence is way up.
> With the experience that he gets this year in the playoffs and a good summer of improving his shot and good training camp he should be ready to start by next year. Now that is if he does not gets injured.
> 
> Playoffs here we come :banana: :banana: :banana:
> ...


Yup, he seems to be more aggressive. He needs to take the ball to the hoop more though. He has been doing it more recently but he can be dangerous off the dribble. ALso, his midrange jumper seems to be improving as well


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## Weasel (Oct 18, 2003)

I think it is safe to say that Livingston is no longer a rookie with the amount of games he has played now. Next season I expect him to play a lot better. Playing in the playoffs will help him nicely as well.


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## Kapt Clipper (Jul 9, 2005)

his defense is improving...he's a little too frail to fight through screens, but his length and overall quickness does bother some of the better shooters...if he can continue to develop offensive elements, eg post up the smaller guards, drive to hole and finish, pull up j, he will become a major force like a magic was.


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## ElMarroAfamado (Nov 1, 2005)

this is an old thread but **** it, haha 

yea, i give you that we dont need his scoring...but damn he has so many chances to score


if he just takes the shot....they leave him wide open, and recently i applaud his efforts,


he has been shooting little floaters, posting up, taking advantage of his height

and like Mike Smith says "when this kid realizes what he can do, look out"

until, then ima stop with the bashing, after all its the Clippers :biggrin: 

its hard to stay optimistic haha but DAmn

PLAYOFFS!!!!!! OH MAN!!!!!!!! GET READY!!!!!!


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## swift88 (Jul 4, 2004)

he brings a little of "and1" style basketball to NBA. He's a late boomer, still very immature to take charge. Maybe 2 more years at least, before he can be a leader.


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## o.iatlhawksfan (Mar 3, 2006)

livingston will be one of the 5 gretest p.g's on all time


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## DaFranchise (Jun 29, 2005)

o.iatlhawksfan said:


> livingston will be one of the 5 gretest p.g's on all time


Im a huge Livingston fan but you might have gone a little too far. I do think he is going to be a perennial all star.


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## clips_r_teh_wieners (Nov 4, 2005)

DaFranchise said:


> Im a huge Livingston fan but you might have gone a little too far. I do think he is going to be a perennial all star.


not top 5 GOAT, but a better than perennial all-star. he'll be in-between as a hall of famer


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## ElMarroAfamado (Nov 1, 2005)

i dont thin he will be an all star....ever...


he will probably hover around being a 10 pt 10 ast guy his career....


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## DaFranchise (Jun 29, 2005)

ElMarroAfamado said:


> i dont thin he will be an all star....ever...
> 
> 
> he will probably hover around being a 10 pt 10 ast guy his career....


Ill remember this quote..forever


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## DaFranchise (Jun 29, 2005)

Great game by Livvy against Nash and the Suns. Great numbers by him Livvy 12 pts 7 rebs 13 ast 1 stl


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## clips_r_teh_wieners (Nov 4, 2005)

livingston + muscle + confident jump shot - injuries = hall of famer


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## leidout (Jul 13, 2005)

clips_r_teh_wieners said:


> livingston + *muscle* + confident jump shot - injuries = hall of famer


Shaun should talk to Barry Bonds about that.


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## n0xescapex (Mar 6, 2006)

noble wtf is happening?


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## ElMarroAfamado (Nov 1, 2005)

DaFranchise said:


> Ill remember this quote..forever




yeah please do....


i hope you prove me wrong one day


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## El chido (Dec 21, 2005)

Great win I was not able to watch the game so I recorded it. 
I watch it late night thinking that they were going to lose, but when I heard about the starting lineup changes I was really exited.

It was nice to see Livi's best game of his carrer. He had some great plays like the one where he stole that pass from Nash ( I think that it was beautiful how he snashed that ball before the suns player touched it. I kept rewinding that play and you can see that nash was sure that the pass would get to his teammate. Then 2 seconds later Livi makes a great falling down outlet pass to Radman and the clippers score.) This game was for those of us that were doubting about his future and his potential with the clippers when he was struggling in the season after his injuries. I think that he will be special for this team.

-His defence is great

-Awsome passing ability and court vision

-Exiting fast breaks

-Good ability to take his man off the tribble (Wich will improve dramatically as he learns how to score in the NBA)

-Average outside shot (Will improve with the years. I am not sure but I think that Jason Kidd was not a really good shooter in his first years.)

-Versatility(In the future he will have the assignment of guarding the best player of the other team like the Kobe's, Lebron's, Nash's and others)

With the remaining games, a some playoff experience, good offseason, training camp (all this with no injuries) he should be ready to start by next season.
Another thing that I want to add is that yesterday's game was his 83 carreer game. This means that he has only played a full nba season in the NBA.

Playoffs here we come :banana: :banana: :banana: 

Go Clippers Go :clap: :clap: :clap:


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## Free Arsenal (Nov 8, 2004)

leidout said:


> Shaun should talk to Barry Bonds about that.


Oh man WTF!!! lol


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