# Wizards @ Raptors, Nov. 28



## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

<center>

















*Washington Wizards* (6-5) @ *Toronto Raptors* (6-8)
November 28th, 2004, 3:00 PM EST
Rogers SportsNet






































*Rafer Alston, Vince Carter, Jalen Rose, Chris Bosh, Loren Woods*





































*Gilbert Arenas, Larry Hughes, Anatwan Jamison, Jared Jeffries, Brendan Haywood*


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## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

Ugh, this game better not turn out like Tuesday.

Can the Raptors please learn how to rebound? And stop thinking they're all Allan Houston clones?


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

Should be another high scoring afair anyways. Just need to grab some rebounds this time. Do Araujo or Moiso even see the court now that Marshall is back?


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## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

IMO Araujo should see some time to rough up Haywood.

If Mitchell would just give Hoffa some time I really think he could change the complexion of a lot of games. We keep saying we need someone exactly like him... give him some time!

Mitchell should tell him to not even think about taking a shot for a few games until he settles in, and I think he wouldn't hurt us one bit. If hes given some minutes and doesn't let Haywood back him in and makes a hard foul on someone driving for a layup his intimidation factor could be priceless.


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

I agree, I want to see Hoffa get some minutes today. I don't think we'll be as badly out rebounded this time around, even without Araujo, because we got Donyell back. Hopefully he can get some minutes today.


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

maybe its me but to me marshall looks like he lost weight


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## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

Wow, I wouldn't have guessed Rose would come out so hot tonight. After yesterday's game I was starting to wonder why I liked him so much.

Woods and Marshall have really been good on the boards. After not seeing Donyell for so long, I forgot just how good a rebounder he is. He's a much better rebounder than Bonner, IMO. Not to mention the shotblocking he provides.

And Alston's shot is still not falling. But on the bright side he isn't forcing the issue like he was yesterday.

Good start overall, but I would still like to see some Hoffa, Haywood is killing us. Woods is doing an alright job on him though, better than Marshall anyways.


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

Bah!!! How do we let them back into this?!?! We were up by like 8 with less than a minute left, and now it's 100-99!


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

make that tied at 100, 8 tenths of a second left. Looking like overtime'll be needed for this one.


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## sKiP~2~mY~BLUTH (Aug 11, 2004)

:00.8 TOR - Full timeout (Timeout #4) 
:00.8 WAS - L. Hughes hits the second free throw 
:00.8 TOR - 20 sec timeout 
:00.8 WAS - L. Hughes misses the second free throw 
:00.8 TOR - L. Woods enters game for J. Rose 
:00.8 TOR - D. Marshall enters game for M. Palacio 
:00.8 WAS - L. Hughes hits the first free throw 
:00.8 TOR - Shooting foul on R. Alston 

uh?!?!!?!
what happened there??
hughes hits first, misses second and hits the second?
wtf?!


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## arcade_rida (Jun 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>sKiP~2~mY~BLUTH</b>!
> :00.8 TOR - Full timeout (Timeout #4)
> :00.8 WAS - L. Hughes hits the second free throw
> :00.8 TOR - 20 sec timeout
> ...


they moved when Hughes was shooting.. Violation


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## sKiP~2~mY~BLUTH (Aug 11, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>arcade_rida</b>!
> 
> 
> they moved when Hughes was shooting.. Violation


thanks.
ohh **** that ****...!
OT...rafer shouldnt shot right...only pass!
vince gotta step up and rose to contineu his great game...
thats easy..lol.. j/k
GO RAPTORS!!!


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

****IN REFS!


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

**** it, it's over... stupid *** refs...


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## Yao Mania (Aug 4, 2003)

wow... looking bad....


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## sKiP~2~mY~BLUTH (Aug 11, 2004)

now its a tuff call by sam...
goin for a 3 or an early 2...and then foul quick..


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

what up with not calling that foul on bosh defender clearly pulled his jersey


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## sKiP~2~mY~BLUTH (Aug 11, 2004)

**** it!!
we suck!...
cant win washington @ home...:upset:


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

We let this one slip, not exactly the way you want to finish a game before heading out on a long road trip.


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## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

Wow, what a game! If you can only watch one game a week, watch on Sundays!

Its like something just clicked in Rose and Carter today. Night and day comparing the way they've been playing so far this year and today. I can count on one hand the bad long jumpers they took today. Carter only had a couple long fadeaway, which is impressive considering his recent track record. Countless post-ups were run for Carter and Rose (no plays run for Carter my ***). Rose played the part of point forward today almost flawlessly, awesome passing out of the post. I was even impressed with Rose's defense and rebounding for the most part.

Things fell apart in the last minute of the fourth and overtime, though. Its a heartbreaking loss, but I'm not left with a bad taste in my mouth like I was yesterday, or after Tuesday's embarrassing loss against the Wiz. The Raptors did what they had to do for the most part, if they play like this every night they'll be in good shape.

Refs sucked. Bosh got mauled a few times with no call.

Mitchell wouldn't play Hoffa and as a result Haywood owned us. Disappointing.

This loss hurts.


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## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

> they moved when Hughes was shooting.. Violation


Oh man thats rough...

I can't believe we made such stupid mistakes in the fourth. We fell apart...


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

^^^hoffa woulden't of been much help anyway


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## vi3t_boi11 (Aug 14, 2004)

Man, the refs not makin the calls, rafer missin the second free throw, Brendan Haywood killin us inside, tough loss at home


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## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Mr_B</b>!
> ^^^hoffa woulden't of been much help anyway


Like hell he wouldn't. All Haywood did today was put his shoulder into Donny and Woods and did his little hook. Hoffa wouldn't have made those shots so easy. Not to mention Haywood just pushing his way to offensive rebounds.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

Not a bad game but it was ours to win. Rafer and Bosh struggled again tonight but it was great to see Vince and Jalen play well together. 

Mitchell's going a little small for my liking but I guess you have to get Bonner and Marshall into the game somehow. 

No Araujo, no Moiso, as thought. 

Good to see Mitchell getting JR and VC in the post. I still wish that Carter would take a quick lesson from Jalen with that up-fake in the lane as JR gets a good look at the andone almost every time (although the refs have been hesitant to call it). 

Anyways, this could set us up for a solid slide into Xmas. 3 games below 500. Not looking so good right now.


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

I like the fact that VC was posting up and what not but we still lost, so will he just stray away from that next time against Miami? I certainly hope not, that game was ours to lose, and we lost it.


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## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>SkywalkerAC</b>!
> (although the refs have been hesitant to call it).


Yeah, whats up with that? Rose has been doing that forever and they still don't like to call it.



> Originally posted by <b>SkywalkerAC</b>!
> Anyways, this could set us up for a solid slide into Xmas. 3 games below 500. Not looking so good right now.


I really don't want to think that way... although I wouldn't be surprised. The sched makers hate Toronto.


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## sKiP~2~mY~BLUTH (Aug 11, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Numbed One</b>!
> 
> I really don't want to think that way... although I wouldn't be surprised. The sched makers hate Toronto.


yea, washington for example played 90% against east teams...i think only 1 or 2 games vs. westren teams.


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>sKiP~2~mY~BLUTH</b>!
> 
> 
> yea, washington for example played 90% against east teams...i think only 1 or 2 games vs. westren teams.


And that's why they're above 500. Albeit they have a solid team, lots of skill and explosiveness, but once they started playing more western teams, we'll see how they fair.

We have a tough schedule no doubt, but down the stretch we will be happy because we will know that the hardest games are already behind us.


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## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jcintosun911</b>!
> 
> We have a tough schedule no doubt, but down the stretch we will be happy because we will know that the hardest games are already behind us.


Yeah, but hopefully we don't slide so bad that it won't matter how easy the rest of our schedule is.

Not to mention the locker turmoil it would cause. Look at how bad it gets after one loss (Rafer, stupid reporters, etc).

Imagine the condition the team will be in if they drop 5 or 6 straight, or 6 of 9 or something.


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## madman (Oct 20, 2003)

Wow i think that was the best game the raptors played until 3 minutes left in the 4th when everyone thought they had the win and got too relaxed


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Numbed One</b>!
> 
> Imagine the condition the team will be in if they drop 5 or 6 straight, or 6 of 9 or something.


It's funny because we have lost 9 of our last 12. 

I would be astonished if we win 3 games on this road trip. 
New Jersey is a must, hopefully we can get a couple of games out of Cleveland, Orlando or Boston. 
Also Detroit hasn't been doing too well of late either, but by the time we play them Big Ben will be back.


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## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jcintosun911</b>!
> 
> 
> It's funny because we have lost 9 of our last 12.


Ha, I never even thought about that. But it's only going to get worse from here.

I think we ought to start preparing for the worst.


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## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

And damn, I didn't realize Hughes had a triple double till I checked out the boxscore. He needed overtime to do it, but thats still impressive.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

Close game today. Guard-oriented on both sides of the ball, save for Haywood. Lots of things to applaud, lots of things to pull your hair out over.

Who was guarding Larry Hughes? Carter, Peterson, Palacio, Rose, Alston... no matter who we put on him, he ran them ragged. A weakness of ours that is being exposed in every game is a reluctance to run over screens. Our players are content to duck behind the screener and it results in open looks for opposing guards. Against a team like Washington, that doesn't work. You have to fight through screens, get a body on your man, and force him to pass or take a contested shot. At the very least obstruct his look. We didn't do a good job of that today. Hughes had a huge triple-double and embarassed our squad in the process.

We also had trouble preventing slashing in the paint. Instead of trying to cut-off the lanes, our bigs allowed the guards to cut alongside the lane and put up lay-ins. It isn't enough to follow the guard and try to block his shot on the move. We need to block the cutters from getting that deep to begin with. Loren is especially bad at this, as he relies on his length to try and move alongside a cutter and block his shot at the rack. Theo Ratliff can do that... Loren better recognize that positional defence is more important for him at this stage in his career.

Somebody lit a fire under JR today and he delivered. He even contributed on defence. He is an enemy to the officials, though. For those that wonder why he doesn't get the calls, it's because he never stops complaining all game long all season long. There's a lot to be said about having a repor with the officials. Still, he was very productive and tried his best to get us the win today.

Vince showed flashes of his old self--all offence no defence. On the scoring end of the floor, he was dynamic. At the other end he was invisible. We needed key defensive stops several times today and there were few players able to come-up big. On three possessions Vince was able to reach the free throw line. Gotta do better than that for us to win.

Rafer struggled with his shot again, and he seems to be mired in a mini slump right now. His longball is getting painful and he's getting away from driving the ball into the lane, which led to so much success early this year. He passed the ball well today, notching eight assists, and in general made good decisions when he had the ball at important times. But we need him to play very well and when he doesn't it's hard for us to win.

CB4 only had five shots today. Could've been more but he had the ball taken away a few times. He's too far away from the net. If he wants to set-up fifteen feet out every game, he'd better be able to protect the ball. He's been hard done by when it comes to his crossover and his baseline drive. He needs to simplify his game and get back to what was getting him fifteen+ points a night earlier this year. Zero trips to the charity stripe can attest to the fact that he wasn't close enough to the rim.

Zoo Crew was very good today, IMO. Our bench shot 56% and fought hard. Milt continued his great play, effortlessly getting to the rack for lay-ins. Bonner continues to be our best shooter, scoring with an efficiency that should make the rest of the team jelous.

Today our team managed 13 trips to the free throw line. Washington made 23 free throws on 30 attempts. If you want to hang the game on one issue, that could be it.

I don't think our defensive rebounding was an issue today. We only gave-up nine offensive boards and generally did a good job keeping Haywood, Jeffries, and Jamison off of our glass. They killed us from mid-range, which isn't the worst way to lose. I still think Woods needs to get angrier and plant himself in the paint, though. Opposing forwards and centres can move him out of the way with a little shoulder or bump here and there. He needs to start putting those bony elbows of his into the backs of those guys and stepping on their heels. If he can't force them away, maybe he can irritate them enough to have them avoid him. Either way he needs to play with a mean streak, as it seems like he plays better when he is motivated [on the offensive end].

Vince had 25 shots today. Freeze what?


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>speedythief</b>!
> 
> Vince had 25 shots today. Freeze what?


That reminds me, Sam Mitchell was saying how he wanted to see the Raps take 100 shots a game, today we had 94 attempts and shot 50%. Not too bad.


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## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

Another thing speedy's post reminded me of:

Chris Bosh. What the hell is wrong with Chris Bosh. I really don't like the way he is playing. Its like all of his weaknesses have been coming out all at once these past few games. Unless he shows something soon... call me worried. It would be absolutely crippling if Bosh regesses noticeably over the next month or two.

On the bright side, his jumper has still been falling. But thats one of the last things we need from him.


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## Mike1155 (Apr 9, 2004)

The Raptors just continue to screw it up for themselves. They had the ball game & didn't close it out & make the plays to clinch the game.This team has to realize that you don't get wins for being in close games.


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## madman (Oct 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Numbed One</b>!
> Another thing speedy's post reminded me of:
> 
> Chris Bosh. What the hell is wrong with Chris Bosh. I really don't like the way he is playing. Its like all of his weaknesses have been coming out all at once these past few games. Unless he shows something soon... call me worried. It would be absolutely crippling if Bosh regesses noticeably over the next month or two.
> ...


nothing is wrong with him the league has had a year to watch what he has done and figured it out so it is harder for him then last year, also he is hitting the Sophmore block it is normal


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

Our D was so bad its impossible to single out any one player. I can't even find one decent player on D today. Even Mo and Milt and Rafer were dreadful and one of them is usually our best.

On a positive note Jalen was awesome. Played aggressive but under control for the most part. Anyone remember that Tech Foul he got for holding the ball and whining to the ref. Did that cost us the game?

Vince, without a doubt, had his best offensive game of the year. Even if he had missed every one of those shots in the second half I couldn't complain much. He never settled, and attacked the rim harder than he has all year. And he just kept attacking. Did not avoid contact. Let's hope we continue to see this Vince Carter.

Raps somehow lose a 9 point lead with under 3 minutes to play. 

A bad play call that saw Vince and Bosh try a pick and roll. All that did was clog VC's lanes. He had one on one coverage and didn't need a pick. Bosh was not playing well anyway so why use him there? Caused a bad shot.

And then VC made a bad cut right into Rafers driving path and that brought Hughes to Rafer for the steal that the refs bailed us out on. Rafer misses the second FT and then commits a bad foul with 0.8 seconds left and its OT for the Raps.

It felt like we were in shock and not prepared for OT. We were still looking for the ashtray to put out our victory cigars while the Wiz stole the game.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Remembers someone saying Vince has not post up or midrange game and does not work on his game


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## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hbwoy</b>!
> Remembers someone saying Vince has not post up or midrange game and does not work on his game


Can't blame them. He wasn't showing his post up or mid range game until yesterday.


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

That's a childish call-out by Hbwoy.

Most of the 'haters' have been BEGGING for VC to play like he did in that second half. We knew he was capable of playing so much better than he has. That's all we ever wanted.

He has now proven that he can do it, and do it very well. It was easy. So no more excuses if he starts to fall back into old habits and just jack up long J's and fadeaways, right.

That's one game out of 15 this season. And I don't remember him sticking to that style of ball for even a full half during last season.

Will it continue?

If it does, the Raps will win a lot of games.


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## John (Jun 9, 2002)

So Vince played 36 minutes of a possible 58 minutes and he scored 26 points on 12/25.

Will Mitchell start more plays for Vince to unfold?


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

man i can see the raps slidin now dammit i cnt belive we gave them this game we owned this 1 its so frustrating! terrible game by alston well not terrible but not his best not wat i have cum 2 expect anyway! and wen the bigs are getting mauled by haywood atleast give hoffa a chance mitchell!


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

> That's a childish call-out by Hbwoy.


What's so childish about it, I never called out anyone specifically and whats wrong with saying that people said he doesnt work on his game. No one said it was childish when you said Vince has no post game and is midrange game is weak, when obviously your not there with him in person to see what he does on his game.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>John</b>!
> So Vince played 36 minutes of a possible 58 minutes and he scored 26 points on 12/25.
> 
> Will Mitchell start more plays for Vince to unfold?


Lots of plays are run for Vince but he passes out of them or he doesn't fight through a screen to hit his mark. Hopefully he is on the upswing right now and will start to put the effort forward. Mitchell's system looks point-guard oriented only because our players are slow.


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