# Cleveland please trade Dajuan.



## OZZY (Jun 14, 2002)

The Cleveland Cavaliers are suffocating Dajuan Wagner. He cannot grow as a player under Paul Silas. 

His minutes per game have dropped from:

30 to 16

And his points per game have dropped from:

13 to 6


A player that can drop 33 in the NBA game is obvoiusly talented, but this year he has just not got the chance to play. I really hope Cleveland trades Dajuan because he is just not a good fit with Paul Silas.

Sure Dajuan still has to work on his game, but he is a scorer you can't change that, you have to mold it. Put him in the position to succeed, and Cleveland is not doing that.


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## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

That depends on the offer.

Now is not the time to trade Wagner. If that there the Cavs strategy, they would have upped his minutes before the trade deadline, showcase his talent then sprung a deal.

Silas has said Wagner is his "project." Juanny is 21 years old and has a lot of work to do. Cleveland very well could trade him but they would receive less for him than if they wait until later. 

Much like Brown, I want some more time before I put the judgment on Wagner. Both of these young Cavs need consistency. They have the talent but need to continue maturing, working out hard after practice and grow confidence. If he goes, I won't be too shocked but if he stays, I won't be that shocked either.


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## Charlotte_______ (May 18, 2003)

Hey we'll take him.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Wagner just needs time to grow. This season has been positive in the sense that Silas got him through it without another injury. I think Silas likes Wagner and wil ll make him a better player.

It does depend on the offer though.


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## Dakota (Aug 18, 2002)

I do agree that Wagner needs to leave Cleveland. Wagner has the potential to be a star in this league and with James on his team right now, he will never have a chance to show that potential. Bron Bron is a kind of player who needs the ball nearly every play. I'm not saying that is bad at all, but he can't do that and have Wagner on his team, because Wagner is not going to put up with it. Cleveland only needs one star guard on this team, and that is surely Bron Bron. Boozer and Z are the stars on the block. Where does Wagner fit into that picture?? He doesn't. He needs to find another location to excel at. Golden State?? Maybe. Indiana??? Seems like a good fit with Reggie near retirement. Who knows, but the main fact is that Wag's needs to find a new home where he can progress into his potential.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Is Wagner really as good as people think or is he just really hyped because of how good he was in high school?

He hasn't shown that he can be "the next Iverson" like a lot seem to imply. Right now he's not good enough to get consistent run on the Cavs. Give him an offseason before saying he can't possibly fit with the Cavs. His developmment has been slowed more by injuries than anything Silas has done.


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## OZZY (Jun 14, 2002)

> Silas has said Wagner is his "project." Juanny is 21 years old and has a lot of work to do. Cleveland very well could trade him but they would receive less for him than if they wait until later.


He probably said that just so Juanny stays motivated but Silas simply does not play players that can't defend. He likes tough strong aggressive guards. Dajuan just doesn't fit Silas's mold of a good player.

I honestly though Dajuan would do great because of LeBron. They could run the big PG small SG lineup and have LeBron run the point and Dajuan be the scoring guard. But LeBron is more of a SG and is more aggressive on offense. So putting Dajuan and LeBron in the same lineup is pretty hard because they are just two guards that will shoot. So they play McInnis and Ollie over Dajuan because they can defend and play the PG.

Dajuan simply needs to be traded, but I am thinking in terms of what is best for Dajuan. Is it best for the Caves to have a playing that young and talented on the bench? Yes. But in terms of what is best for Dajuan being on Cleveland is horrible.


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## Dakota (Aug 18, 2002)

> Originally posted by *futuristxen*!
> Is Wagner really as good as people think or is he just really hyped because of how good he was in high school?


I think it is a mix of both. Wagner has alot of potential that he has simply not lived up to because of injuries like you said. Do you really think that Wagner and Bron Bron can coincide on this team?? I'm not sure about that really. Wagner is the type of guard who has to put up 20 shots a game just to get his game into the right rythm. James has to do the same, but he can do alot more things in the meanwhile while he is putting up shots. 



> Originally posted by *futuristxen*!
> Right now he's not good enough to get consistent run on the Cavs. Give him an offseason before saying he can't possibly fit with the Cavs. His developmment has been slowed more by injuries than anything Silas has done.


I agree that his injuries have vastly slowed his progress, and in turn, that is probably what affected his consistency the most. 

Do you think Wagner is the type of player who should start every game?? I mean, he was the 6th overall pick. I think he should.


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## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

I don't know if James takes away any from Wagner. 

The greatest battle Wagner fights is in his own mind. In practice, Silas says he is a great player. The best one-on-one player in the team. But come game days, that doesn't come out. 

Another team might be a better fit for Dajuan but his own personal battle, is the one thing holding him back the most.


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## OZZY (Jun 14, 2002)

Juanny scores off the bounce and needs the ball in his hands a lot. He is not a stand still jump shooter. Heck he was in the game tonight for 5 minutes and he took 2 shots and those two shots were the only time he touched the ball. Seriously he needs to be traded. He is not living up to his potential on that team because he just does not get the playing time or the shot attempts.


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## OZZY (Jun 14, 2002)

:upset: 


Mateen Cleaves gets the start, Dajuan doesn't even play. Ok seriously please trade him Paul Silas, your killing Juanny.


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## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

Considering McInnis is hurt, Cleaves only sees time because he is a PG on a team that has little depth (Cleaves, Ollie). Wagner is not a PG, so he doesn't slide up in the abscence of McInnis. Only if Silas started James at PG, would Brown or Wagner start at the 2.


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## Nevus (Jun 3, 2003)

> Mateen Cleaves gets the start, Dajuan doesn't even play. Ok seriously please trade him Paul Silas, your killing Juanny.


Maybe if Wagner would learn to be a PG he could play more. You've got to make yourself valuable in the NBA.


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## OZZY (Jun 14, 2002)

> Considering McInnis is hurt, Cleaves only sees time because he is a PG on a team that has little depth (Cleaves, Ollie). Wagner is not a PG, so he doesn't slide up in the abscence of McInnis. Only if Silas started James at PG, would Brown or Wagner start at the 2.


This is how I saw it, I thought LeBron would play "PG" and Dajuan could play the SG much like Allen Iverson does. On defense they would not get mixed up because LeBron could check the SG and Dajuan the PG. They could go big small and I thought that was a perfect fit, what other 6-7 PG/SG would you want beside LeBron. But I guess Silas does not like that lineup and wants LeBron to play move of a SG roll. I think that backcourt could work, but I guess not, but not like they have tried to make it work. If Dajuan was a tougher defender he would play. Because no way in hell is Cleaves a better player, or even PG and Dajuan does not even play that position. But he does not play because Silas does not like players that can't defend.


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## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

Silas puzzles me. If he is all about defense, start James at PG and Brown at SG.

Last game, Golden State had Dunleavy at PG and he was killing Cleaves and Ollie. But Silas never gave Brown much run and Mike was murdering people all night. From the last few games, James looks best when controlling the ball. He should be the PG and the SG could depend on the match up (threatening scorer gives Brown the light, if not go with offense in Wagner).

I fear with Wagner, you will have the same scenario as with Miles. People said Miles sucked (I was never one of these people) and had no skills. Then he goes to another team and suddenly he's reborn, with new zeal, confidence and production. I could easily see Wagner doing the same thing. Some teams have a history of losing players, who go on to become much better players with other teams. It would be sad if Cleveland axes young players, only to see them blossom elsewhere.


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## Kezersoze (Mar 3, 2004)

After reading this thread I did an extensive research of Dajuan in College/HS/NBA and have come to the conclusion that he definitely needs to be traded. There is just no questioning that, I doubt Paul Silas can turn him into Starbury . Throughout his HS/College career he has been the primary offense for his teams and not needed to play defense. Question I have is where does he go then? Does he have enough athelticism to play SG in the nba?


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## TyGuy (Apr 19, 2003)

Ozzy it is pretty obvious you don’t watch much Cavaliers basketball. The reason they don’t do this is because they want LeBron playing as little point guard as possible. Furthermore it doesn’t matter if Wagner is guarding a shooting guard or point guard. He displays poor defense at both positions and is ultimately why you don’t see him on the floor much. That and he needs a lot of shots to get going, which the cavs cant afford to do because they would much rather have LeBron take those shots .


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## Mongolmike (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Kezersoze</b>!
> After reading this thread I did an extensive research of Dajuan in College/HS/NBA and have come to the conclusion that he definitely needs to be traded. There is just no questioning that, I doubt Paul Silas can turn him into Starbury . Throughout his HS/College career he has been the primary offense for his teams and not needed to play defense. Question I have is where does he go then? Does he have enough athelticism to play SG in the nba?


I am not a professional talent evaluator... but I did stay at a Holiday Inn and I do have an opinion, and I do not feel Wagner will be a successful pro, SG (or PG), for us or anyone else.

His best role is off the bench. 7th or 8th man as a scoring punch, IF he can develop his offense.

Yes, I know in HS he was the man, and even one year at college he was able to score.... but this is the pros.... the best of the best. 

-Wagner is going up against guys even quicker than himself and they are inches taller. 

-He is going up against teams that professionally break down film and have a small notebook written on how to shut him down.

-They know he is an excellant 3 pt shooter, but they aren't giving him any room to get a shot off. And he doesn't come off picks well enough to get these shots.

-They know his dribbling is nothing special. Force him left and he'll give up the ball.

-He is a defensive liability.

-He does not see the floor as a PG looking for open men, he sees it with the intent to score himself. 

-IF he is ever forced to be a PG, he'll be like Kevin Ollie style... cautious, not pushing the ball hard, safe entry or perimeter passing.... in other words, nothing special.... (that is IF Wagner first realizes SG is not where he can be a starter and he dedicates himself to learning PG. He reminds me of the Nebraska QB - Crouch? who felt he had what it took to be a pro QB, but the teams did not... and Crouch was unwilling to learn a different position to take advantage of his natural skills.... so he got cut. Wagner needs to adapt, or he will be cut and will be forced into the CBA)

This has nothing to say about his character, or pedigree. It is not to disparage what he did in HS or college. To my eye, he does NOT have what it takes to make the quantum leap from college level ball to NBA starter. I say trade him now, and let some other team try to develop him... he has no role on this team. Kapono is a better pure shooter, and is taller. Ollie is comfortable as a back-up PG, Wags is not. Kedrick is as athletic, or moreso, and is taller and comes with more of a defensive attitude. 
Look at it this way... even with McInnis out, the Cavs believe that a cast-off CBA PG in Cleaves is a better option than Wagner. Whatever your own personal feelings about the kid, it is pretty obvious how Silas feels about Wagner... he has no role on this team.


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## OZZY (Jun 14, 2002)

Cleveland has to trade Wagner, and I have not doubt about him succeeding on another team. You don't get 33 points in one game and average 13 points per game as a rookie that is 20 some years old for no reason.


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## Mongolmike (Jun 11, 2002)

OZZY, I think you're reading too much into his early stats. Once other teams saw him play, they were able and still are able, to take him completely out of the game and expose his weaknesses. 

My point is, to this point in his young career, he has not made any adjustments, even tho I'm pretty sure Silas and the other assts. have tried to get him to make adjustments to his game. 

Either he CAN'T or he WON'T.... either way... he is ineffective. And it doesn't matter what other team he goes to, the scouting report on how to disrupt his game will still be the same. 

Wags MUST make adjustments to his game... just to get minutes, let alone be a starter... let alone be the 2nd coming of A.I.


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## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

Silas wants a "Baron Davis north," or in other words, an scoring PG. The scoring part Juanny has down but not the PG part.

Wagner has improved his left hand some. He's had several strong finishes going to his left this season. You can hear Cavs' announcer Austin Carr saying "And you see why he got open? Because teams are so used to him going right."

Offensively, I see progression. His rookie year was all about the right hand drive and the floater. Now he has a more reliable jumper and I'm sure for next year, more left handed moves will be added. Even with that said, despite it being an impressive offensive set, Silas may continue sitting Wagner.


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## OZZY (Jun 14, 2002)

Yeah Juanny does have to change, but he also has to get off that team. He is just simply not getting any PT. You can make a player like him become a great defender. If his shot was falling he would be playing but it is not because he never gets into the flow of the game.



> Wags MUST make adjustments to his game... just to get minutes, let alone be a starter... let alone be the 2nd coming of A.I.


 Yeah he is obviously not A.I., people just said that because he was a scoring SG. He is not as competitive as Allen, not as athletic and not as skilled and dribbling.

But I still think he has a chance to succeed if he gets a chance.


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## Mongolmike (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>OZZY</b>!
> But I still think he has a chance to succeed if he gets a chance.


Ok...

Actually, I hope he can succeed elsewheres. He seems like a good kid. Maybe things came to easy for him in HS and college, and now he has to actually learn how to play the game, rather than just using his talent to score points. But that is true for so many players who came into the league too early... they were so used to "just being able to score at will using their great athletics"... that they never had to learn fundamentals that are essential to survive at the pro level.


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## wild_style (Feb 26, 2004)

I really like wagners game, and as a fan i wish he would end up with the bobcats... i know he wont, but that would give him the PT he needs. he does need to be traded though. have their been any rumours going around??


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## Mongolmike (Jun 11, 2002)

no... none with any weight to them.... just wishful thinking mostly. I think Memphis is a great spot, as would be the Bobcats... depending upon who or what the Bobcats have to offer.

Personally, I'd still like to see Shane Battier in a Cavs uni at the small forward. Solid defense, solid person, can hit the three, smart player.... I'd like the rotation of Boozer, Battier, and LeBron alot at the PF/SF/SG.


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## Geaux Tigers (Apr 26, 2004)

The Cavs have the two most hyped high school players in recent memory with Juan and Lebron if they were smart they could figure out a way to use them both. Its not like Lebron has to score all the points Juanny could give them a great second option. But Silas is smart so he is probably doing the right thing. Dajuan shouldnt have gone to Memphis that hurt his stock a lot. He was so hyped up in HS before there was big talk about Lebron.


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## THE COOKIE MONSTER (Apr 27, 2004)

HELLO PEOPLE HIGH SCHOOL DOES NOT TRANSLATE TO GREATNESS THATS WHY ITS HIGHSCHOOL. MANY PLAYERS HAVE BEEN UNDERSIZED WITH SG MENTALATIES AND MANY HAVE FAILED. MAYBE WAGNER IS A GOOD INDIVIDUAL TALENT, BUT IN THE NBA WHERE YOU PLAY A TEAM GAME HE'S NOT ANY BETTER THAN JUAN DIXON.


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## Mongolmike (Jun 11, 2002)

The Cookie Monster comes down hard with the hammer.... leaving just crumbs of this thread.....:rocket:


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## thefuture2 (May 2, 2004)

give us a shooter for dajuan, and im all for it


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## Zuca (Dec 4, 2003)

Trade Ollie and Wag for Boykins and Skita...

Wagner can replace Lenard easily in Denver...
Skita is a project PF/SF;
Boykins can shoot a lot;
Ollie is an experienced PG to backup Miller


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