# Pierce to Memphis???



## UNHFan (May 14, 2005)

Anyone know about this rumor of a Boston Memphis deal involving Paul Pierce. I was reading about it on another site? Anyone have any information? Or who would people want to see us get from Memphis for him? I would love to see them trade Paul Pierce and not have to watch him shoot 30 shots a game and make 10 if he is lucky and then sit on the bench like a little boy who had his toys taken from him. He is a disgrace to the title of Captain in my opinion.


----------



## kamego (Dec 29, 2003)

I saw a rumor on the Memphis board but I didn't take it as anything real.


----------



## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

> I would love to see them trade Paul Pierce and not have to watch him shoot 30 shots a game and make 10 if he is lucky


From this observation alone we can gather that you watched the Celtics a grand total of zero times last year. Maybe you'd actually, you know, have a clue before you post. Thanks for your two cents though, it was well worth my time to read.


----------



## kamego (Dec 29, 2003)

P-Dub34 said:


> From this observation alone we can gather that you watched the Celtics a grand total of zero times last year. Maybe you'd actually, you know, have a clue before you post. Thanks for your two cents though, it was well worth my time to read.


LoL stay away from the personal attacks. Lots of sarcasm there. Paul Pierce is a top talent who Boston isn't trading just to trade. Memphis has a lot of good players but aren't willing to move the ones Boston will want in a deal.


----------



## CelticsSaint1977 (Jun 19, 2005)

Can I please see a link for this report. A lot of times people devise trades and place it on posts to get a reaction or stir from other members on this site. 
Who do the Grizzlies have that we would want to trade for??! 
:sfight:
Swift, Wells and Williams are gone; and the majority of the remaining playeers are either unproven or unworthy of trade discussions. *I MIGHT  * consider Gasol, Warrick or Battier.....that would be it.

And your assertions of Pierce are off-based and juvenile, at best. Though you may have a problem with his shot selection and role as leader; still does not dispute the fact he is still one of the top 10-15 players in the NBA and one of the top 3 scorers in franchise history. If he kept up his numbers for the next 5-7 years, he would have his number retired in the rafters. 

It sounds to me that all our observations and reactions could easily be given to a tier of other NBA players such as McGrady, Allen, Anthony, Nowitzki, Iverson. All players who have been both critiqued and congratulated for their superstar efforts on their teams. 

:cheers:


----------



## KJay (Sep 22, 2002)

but Memphis has alot of PF/c that Danny hasn't gotten.


----------



## kamego (Dec 29, 2003)

Memphis won't trade Pau and I think they like Warrick too much. Battier makes the most sense in a trade but I don't think Memphis can pull off a trade but keeping Pau and Warrick out of it.


----------



## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

P-Dub34 said:


> From this observation alone we can gather that you watched the Celtics a grand total of zero times last year. Maybe you'd actually, you know, have a clue before you post. Thanks for your two cents though, it was well worth my time to read.




:rotf:


----------



## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

Too bad Gasol won't been traded.


----------



## kamego (Dec 29, 2003)

Premier said:


> Too bad Gasol won't been traded.


yeah thats why this trade doesn't have any real legs.


----------



## UNHFan (May 14, 2005)

I did watch some Celtic Games last year, but to be honest with you, as a basketball fan, I have a tough time watching NBA basketball. To me it is more entertainment then pure basketball. I have found over the past few years that I enjoy watching college basketball a lot more. Just my two cents.


----------



## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

UNHFan, here are some things to remember:

Pierce ppfga ~ 1.45
Pierce FG%: 45.5%
Pierce TS%: 58.3%
Pierce eFG%: 49.99
Pierce fga per 48 ~ 19.83
Pierce jump shot FG%: 38.78%
Pierce's eFG% for jump shots is 45.1%


----------



## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

Prem, no need to post the stats. It's obvious the kid just wanted to stir some people up. Anybody that's followed basketball the past year wouldn't have made such ignorant comments.


----------



## whiterhino (Jun 15, 2003)

CelticsSaint1977 said:


> And your assertions of Pierce are off-based and juvenile, at best. Though you may have a problem with his shot selection and role as leader; still does not dispute the fact he is still one of the top 10-15 players in the NBA and one of the top 3 scorers in franchise history. If he kept up his numbers for the next 5-7 years, he would have his number retired in the rafters.
> 
> 
> :cheers:


Paul Pierce's jersey will never be retired in Boston unless a miracle happens soon and I don't see that happening. It takes more than good stats to get your # retired at the "Gahden", maybe in other cities he would but not here.


----------



## Air Fly (Apr 19, 2005)

how high is Pierce trade value?


----------



## Air Fly (Apr 19, 2005)

kamego said:


> yeah thats why this trade doesn't have any real legs.


yah Gasol isnt even as good as Pierce! my opinion.


----------



## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

Pierce's tade value is generally believed to be at an all-time low, despite being an All-Star for a handful of seasons in a row, one-time NBA scoring leader, an All-NBA selection, proven clutch player, explosive scorer, good rebounder, good ballhandler, solid passer, and coming off a 22/7/4 year where he dramatically improved his FG% and 3PT% and had his lowest turnover numbers since his rookie year.


----------



## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

P-Dub34 said:


> Pierce's tade value is generally believed to be at an all-time low, despite being an All-Star for a handful of seasons in a row, *one-time NBA scoring leader*, an All-NBA selection, proven clutch player, explosive scorer, good rebounder, good ballhandler, solid passer, and coming off a 22/7/4 year where he dramatically improved his FG% and 3PT% and had his lowest turnover numbers since his rookie year.


I don't think he ever lead the league in scoring, no?


----------



## agoo (Jun 1, 2003)

I believe he led in points, but not points per game one season.

Memphis has nothing available that I want. And that includes Hakim Warrick and Shane Battier as well as the S+T option with Earl Watson.


----------



## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

Ask the Memphis fans.

Earl Watson isn't a good point guard, at all. He is a Marcus Banks clone.


----------



## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

By the way, I would love to have Shane Battier here. I believe he is better than all of our wing players sans Pierce. He is a great defensive player and he can do it all.


----------



## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

> I believe he led in points, but not points per game one season.


Yup.

Didn't Memphis' coach say every team could use three or four Shane Battiers?


----------



## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

Well, he can only play one position, but he is a guy that every team would love to have. A better Shane Battier, Danny Granger, almost fell to the Celtics. In fact, I would rather have Granger than Green (as I stated in IM conversations with aqua).


----------



## agoo (Jun 1, 2003)

Premier said:


> By the way, I would love to have Shane Battier here. I believe he is better than all of our wing players sans Pierce. He is a great defensive player and he can do it all.


I think this is where I say...


*JUSTIN REED BABY!!!!!*


----------



## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

Shane Battier, at his worst, is a much better defender than Justin Reed.


----------



## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

Premier said:


> Well, he can only play one position, but he is a guy that every team would love to have. A better Shane Battier, Danny Granger, almost fell to the Celtics. In fact, I would rather have Granger than Green (as I stated in IM conversations with aqua).


Shane Battier _started_ at four different positions last season - SG, SF, PF and C.

He's also capable of guarding 2s, 3s and 4s. He's a player who'll do anything that's asked of him.

And I'm just amazed Justin Reed made it into the league. Nothing good will ever come from Ole Miss basketball.


----------



## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

Justin Reed seems like a good role player, but you're the expert on Mississippi basketball.

I didn't know that. In college, he played power forward, but I didn't think he would play PF in the pros. I would only play him at SG and SF though.


----------



## kamego (Dec 29, 2003)

Air Fly said:


> yah Gasol isnt even as good as Pierce! my opinion.


I would rather have Gasol because skilled big men are just so hard to find.


----------



## whiterhino (Jun 15, 2003)

Premier said:


> Shane Battier, at his worst, is a much better defender than Justin Reed.


Prem, you can't make a statement like that when Justin has yet to play any meaningful minutes yet in the NBA but is said by all to be a crazy mad defender. They say he's the best on the team including TA & Banks and if he's better than Banks on D, then he could end up being something special on D. Bruce Bowen wasn't exactly a household name coming into the league but he's been on how many NBA all-defense teams, Reed could end up like that someday. Statements like that shouldn't be made when a guys career hasn't even started yet.
I do like Shane Battier though, would love to see him in green somehow.


----------



## vandyke (Jan 8, 2004)

P-Dub34 said:


> Pierce's tade value is generally believed to be at an all-time low, despite being an All-Star for a handful of seasons in a row, one-time NBA scoring leader, an All-NBA selection, proven clutch player, explosive scorer, good rebounder, good ballhandler, solid passer, and coming off a 22/7/4 year where he dramatically improved his FG% and 3PT% and had his lowest turnover numbers since his rookie year.



I hear you P-Dub, it is also pretty funny how people on this board and in newspapers across the country try to say how Pierce's trade value is low and they come with this outrageous trade scenario where the Celtics are getting raped. Let me put it like this when the time comes, if it comes for the Celtics to part ways we are going to get equal value in return for Pierce which means that unless we get a top 20 player in his prime in return Pierce won't be traded the only way we don't is if he is in the last year of his contract and indicates that he won't resign here.


----------



## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

whiterhino said:


> Prem, you can't make a statement like that when Justin has yet to play any meaningful minutes yet in the NBA but is said by all to be a crazy mad defender. They say he's the best on the team including TA & Banks and if he's better than Banks on D, then he could end up being something special on D. Bruce Bowen wasn't exactly a household name coming into the league but he's been on how many NBA all-defense teams, Reed could end up like that someday. Statements like that shouldn't be made when a guys career hasn't even started yet.
> I do like Shane Battier though, would love to see him in green somehow.


Shane Battier is the best perimter defender in the league other than Ron Artest. Justin Reed hasn't played a meaningful game in the NBA yet. If he was so good, why was he benched all of last season. Statements like proclaiming Reed is the best defender on the team shouldn't be made until we actually _see_ him play. Because Battier is one of the best defenders in the league, it is very safe to assume that he is better than Reed.


----------



## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

kamego said:


> I would rather have Gasol because skilled big men are just so hard to find.




gasol has been in the league 4 yrs and hasnt improved at all...hes a good pf at best....he'll never be anything more than that


----------



## Delontes Herpes (May 11, 2005)

I'd rather have Pierce because Gasol sucks.


----------



## thetruth556 (Aug 3, 2005)

Delontes Herpes said:


> I'd rather have Pierce because Gasol sucks.


amen, when gasol goes up against an actual good big man hes shaky at best


----------



## whiterhino (Jun 15, 2003)

Premier said:


> Shane Battier is the best perimter defender in the league other than Ron Artest. Justin Reed hasn't played a meaningful game in the NBA yet. If he was so good, why was he benched all of last season. Statements like proclaiming Reed is the best defender on the team shouldn't be made until we actually _see_ him play. Because Battier is one of the best defenders in the league, it is very safe to assume that he is better than Reed.


Actually I HAVE seen enough of Reed to KNOW he's the best defender on the team. The only competition is Banks and Allen, Reed is better than both of them. He was benched all year because we have a glutton of wing players, he was a 2nd round pick and Doc wasn't sure what he had in him. I assure you he WILL NOT be benched this season. 
Battier, like I said I love him but he's NOT one of THE BEST defenders in the league. He's good, very good, but not one of the best. He was not on the 1st or 2nd All-Defensive team this season and he wasn't even a close runner up. Reed could turn out very good and could equal Battier...maybe he won't but it is very attainable.


----------



## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

You cite the all-defensive teams for your argument? You do know sports writers select the players, which are usually stars besides Bruce Bowen. Why wasn't Tony Allen or Marcus Banks selected? Clearly they are amongst the best defensive players in the league. Battier is an amazing defender. He is quick enough to play shut-down perimter defense and strong enough to play great post and help defense. Oh and Reed, the amount you saw him is not nearly a good enough sample size to accurately ga(u)ge his defensive ability. It is pure speculation to say that he is better than Battier or Banks/Allen, two of the best defenders in the league.


----------



## whiterhino (Jun 15, 2003)

Premier said:


> You cite the all-defensive teams for your argument? You do know sports writers select the players, which are usually stars besides Bruce Bowen. Why wasn't Tony Allen or Marcus Banks selected? Clearly they are amongst the best defensive players in the league. Battier is an amazing defender. He is quick enough to play shut-down perimter defense and strong enough to play great post and help defense. Oh and Reed, the amount you saw him is not nearly a good enough sample size to accurately ga(u)ge his defensive ability. It is pure speculation to say that he is better than Battier or Banks/Allen, two of the best defenders in the league.


Why in the world would Tony Allen or Marcus Banks be on the all-defensive teams, they didn't play nearly enough and are not on that level yet (Marcus could be someday), nor is Justin but Battier did not make it either.

Yes I AM AWARE of who chooses the selections for all-defensive teams...your argument that it is only stars gets disproven by the fact you mentioned, Bruce Bowen, who is less known than Battier but makes it every year because he is very very good on defense. 

By the way, I NEVER SAID he was better than Battier, YOU SAID HE WASN'T and I merely pointed out the fact that you can't possibly know that yet so you shouldn't make that statement.

Prem your opinion is only one ....just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they are wrong.


----------



## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

whiterhino said:


> Why in the world would Tony Allen or Marcus Banks be on the all-defensive teams, they didn't play nearly enough and are not on that level yet (Marcus could be someday), nor is Justin but Battier did not make it either.


Banks and Allen are already elite defenders in the league and if the vote was decided on defensive skill and performance, Banks, Allen, and Battier would all be on there.



> Yes I AM AWARE of who chooses the selections for all-defensive teams...your argument that it is only stars gets disproven by the fact you mentioned, Bruce Bowen, who is less known than Battier but makes it every year because he is very very good on defense.


I mentioned Bowen in my post. Also, Bowen is much more known than Battier considering the amount of press Bowen gets for being a "dirty" defender.



> By the way, I NEVER SAID he was better than Battier, YOU SAID HE WASN'T and I merely pointed out the fact that you can't possibly know that yet so you shouldn't make that statement.


_In my opinion, _Batter is the second best perimter defender in the league. The only player better than him is Ron Artest.



> Prem your opinion is only one ....just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they are wrong.


When have I said that? I'm saying that until you guys watch Reed for 50+ games, you cannot say he is a good defender. This is a unsupported rumor that will likely come true if Reed actually manages to get playing time.


----------



## KJay (Sep 22, 2002)

I wonder what this board is going to talk about if and when PP gets dealt.


----------



## whiterhino (Jun 15, 2003)

Honestly I don't think if someone plays less than 20mpg they should make any of those teams. If Banks plays more this year (which he better), I think he'd have a shot of making it. TA I think is over-rated. Granted it was Reggie Miller and it was the playoffs and he didn't get much respect but TA looked terrible. His defense is good don't get me wrong, but I don't think it's elite yet. And even TA says Justin is better than him. 
I'm not saying Justin will be a star but I do think there is a reason he has such a buzz around him and it's all about the D.


----------



## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

KJay said:


> I wonder what this board is going to talk about if and when PP gets dealt.


You do know that we've been talking about Battier for the past ten posts or so?


----------



## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

whiterhino said:


> Honestly I don't think if someone plays less than 20mpg they should make any of those teams. If Banks plays more this year (which he better), I think he'd have a shot of making it. TA I think is over-rated. Granted it was Reggie Miller and it was the playoffs and he didn't get much respect but TA looked terrible. His defense is good don't get me wrong, but I don't think it's elite yet. And even TA says Justin is better than him.
> I'm not saying Justin will be a star but I do think there is a reason he has such a buzz around him and it's all about the D.


Tony Allen's defensive adjusted plus/minus rating is awesome. Over the course of the season (because people have a tough time remembering each individual games unless the defender gets torched) Allen prevented his man from scoring moreso than any other player.


----------



## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

whiterhino said:


> Actually I HAVE seen enough of Reed to KNOW he's the best defender on the team.


Wrong- No you haven't.



Premier said:


> Oh and Reed, the amount you saw him is not nearly a good enough sample size to accurately ga(u)ge his defensive ability.


Wrong- Yes it is.

As you can see, you're both wrong and I'm right with the following:

Justin Reed is not the best defender on the team because of what we saw of him, he is the best defender on the team because the rest sucks big time.

I win. 


BTW:


Premier said:


> You do know that we've been talking about Battier for the past ten posts or so?


I think that was his point, to get back on topic.


----------



## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

#1AntoineWalkerFan said:


> gasol has been in the league 4 yrs and hasnt improved at all...hes a good pf at best....he'll never be anything more than that


Thanks, I've been looking to expand my list of "people who have never seen Gasol play."


----------



## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

Delontes Herpes said:


> I'd rather have Pierce because Gasol sucks.


Another addition.


----------



## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

Rawse said:


> Thanks, I've been looking to expand my list of "people who have never seen Gasol play" list.





ok...lets see

Rookie Yr... 17.6 pts 8.9 rebs 2.7 ast on 52% fgs

2nd yr... 19.0 pts 8.8 rebs 2.8 ast on 51% fgs

3rd yr... 17.7 pts 7.7 rebs 2.5 ast on 48% fgs

4th yr... 17.8 pts 7.3 rebs 2.4 ast on 51% fgs


now if there is improvement please enlighten me...im glad to be a part of your list


----------



## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

#1AntoineWalkerFan said:


> ok...lets see
> 
> Rookie Yr... 17.6 pts 8.9 rebs 2.7 ast on 52% fgs
> 
> ...



I think it is funny when he says you have not watched Gasol play and then you go look up stats for your argument. I love the internet! :banana: :clap:


----------



## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

#1AntoineWalkerFan said:


> ok...lets see
> 
> Rookie Yr... 17.6 pts 8.9 rebs 2.7 ast on 52% fgs
> 
> ...


I take it you've never played basketball competitively. Nor have you watched Memphis on TV or in person over the past four years.


----------



## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

Rawse said:


> I take it you've never played basketball competitively. Nor have you watched Memphis on TV or in person over the past four years.




umm i was on the rhode island D-1A division STATE champions my senior yr in high school...i know stats arent everything...but gasols arent even close to going up...they r actually goin down in most cases...now please enlighten me where he has improved as u forgot to in ur last post


----------



## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

MemphisX said:


> I think it is funny when he says you have not watched Gasol play and then you go look up stats for your argument. I love the internet! :banana: :clap:



i dont get it...am i supposed to have his stats memorized??..i just want to show how none of his numbers ever go up...granted i only see him play a handful of times a year but he never impresses me thats all im sayin...i think he is really good but hes not a perrrenial all star like pierce and i dont think he ever will be


----------



## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

Rawse, instead of ridiculing him, would it be possible to explain to him _why_ Gasol has improved rather than citing that he may have never watched Gasol?


----------



## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

#1AntoineWalkerFan said:


> umm i was on the rhode island D-1A division STATE champions my senior yr in high school...i know stats arent everything...but gasols arent even close to going up...they r actually goin down in most cases...now please enlighten me where he has improved as u forgot to in ur last post


How many Memphis games have you literally _watched_ since 2001? I'm going to guess not many.

Have you also followed the Grizzlies situation the past several years? If so, you'd know the team has become oversaturated with talent and had a coach with the unorthodox strategy of giving significant minutes to 10 players or even more per game. Why didn't you post Gasol's minutes/game stat along with the PPG and RPG?

Gasol has also had the misfortune of playing on a team that not only spreads the ball out evenly, but ill-advisedly so. All too often, you'd see Jason Williams, Bonzi Wells, James Posey or Lorenzen Wright firing up idiotic shots instead of feeding Pau the ball. For two years running, Pau Gasol has been at the top of the list in _least shot attempts per game for a go-to player_. Similarly, he also has some of the lowest minutes per game the past three seasons for a team's lead scorer. That can be chalked up to depth and coaching strategy.

If you'd watched or followed Memphis or Gasol's career outside of NBA.com, then you'd see with your own eyes the strides he's made. It hasn't been a Jermaine O'Neal overnight revolution, but the improvements are definitely there. 

Can't put it to you any more plainly.


----------



## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

> For two years running, Pau Gasol has been at the top of the list in least shot attempts per game for a go-to player.


His FGAT's/game are actually alarmingly low for a player of his caliber. I wouldn't take him overPaul Pierce right now, but if he ever becomes a legit 20/10 guy with a strong defensive presence (which really isn't that far off), I'd re-think my stance on it.



> Rawse, instead of ridiculing him, would it be possible to explain to him why Gasol has improved rather than citing that he may have never watched Gasol?


You rock.

EDIT: Gasol's minutes have taken a bit of a hit the last two years...but his rookie year and third year he had nearly the same FGAT's for the year, and averaged around the same amount of points. Not jumping in the argument, just saying.


----------

