# Big men this summer



## cpawfan (Jun 20, 2004)

The Nuggets face some big decisions this summer on what to do with their big men. 

Nene - He hired a new agent and I'm expecting a sign and trade for him

Elson - With his recent play, it is likely another team will want to overpay him this summer. If the Nuggets lose him, they will need to find another 7 footer this summer. If he isn't too expensive, I would like to see him back.

Evans - I believe Karl really likes him and would want him resigned. The only problem is that w/o Bird rights, the Nuggets will have to use part of the MLE to resign him. I definitely want to see him back.

Najera - I'm a huge Eddie Energy fan, but with Evans and Kleiza, is their still room for Eddie?

Kenyon - With his big contract and continuing injury problems, I can see reasons for wanting to trade him; however, with his value so low at this point, it is probably better to give him the off season to improve the knee and see what he does next season. It has been a very tough 2 seasons to be a Kenyon fan.


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## darth-horax (Nov 21, 2005)

I've always supported KMart, but you can't pay a guy his huge numbers with all the injuries he gets. 1/3 of the year, let's give him 1/3 of the pay.

I think Eddie will have to go. If we can sign him at a low price, he'd be nice to keep. However, Elson has proven his worth in the starting lineup. Elson gets the edge.

Nene will need to either be traded or signed to a 2 year deal. Let him prove he's healthy and commanding of a big time contract before throwing the barn at him.

Camby NEEDS to be resigned...nuff said.

Evans is a sane Dennis Rodman...sign him again.


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

darth-horax said:


> Camby NEEDS to be resigned...nuff said.


that was last year.

personally, id keep both najera and evans.

then to replace elson, you could go with taj gray or justin williams in the 2nd round this year.

Nene is definiately a sign and trade.

kenyon is on the block too.

camby, i wouldnt shop, but id listen for deals, just to see if anyone would sweeten the pot enough.

thats how i feel about andre miller too. dont shop him, because likely somebody will want him. if they do, i reccommend listening.

actually, i feel pretty much that way about anyone but Melo. 

I want to see a solid young core built around him. Guys like Evans are nice role players to have around him.

Id be lying if I didnt say I wouldnt want Denver to get into the first round to snag a two guard like Richard Roby or Maurice Ager.


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## cpawfan (Jun 20, 2004)

nbanoitall said:


> then to replace elson, you could go with taj gray or justin williams in the 2nd round this year.


Williams maybe, but without Nene and Elson, the Nuggets would be very short in the front court with Kenyon, Najera, Evans and Kleiza



> kenyon is on the block too.


If he plays in the playoffs like I hope he does, then he'll have decent trade value, but right now it would be a case of buying high and selling low.


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

cpawfan said:


> Williams maybe, but without Nene and Elson, the Nuggets would be very short in the front court with Kenyon, Najera, Evans and Kleiza
> 
> 
> 
> If he plays in the playoffs like I hope he does, then he'll have decent trade value, but right now it would be a case of buying high and selling low.


when camby isnt healthy, then we would be a little small, but ive seen some small lineups out there this year.

id be ok with it personally. i like williams a lot. period, lots of upside. taj, can block shots and rebound, he's also a body that can defend "larger" guys. 

i dont want to overspend for a big. id rather do what i suggested. now getting a cheap one in a trade is an option. if the packages for Paul Pierce start coming up in trade talk again (w/ a Nene sign a trade deal) id try and get Kendrick Perkins back too. I like him.


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## pac4eva5 (Dec 29, 2005)

i wouldnt mind giving up k-mart, elson, nene, some picks and some money for pierce 

and even tho cpaw says trading martin would be a bad idea because we'd get nothing, thats fine with me. the SALARY alone is worth dumping for free...

i just hope kiki drafts right. he sucks at this...


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## pac4eva5 (Dec 29, 2005)

btw, najera and evans should be left over. get another big through FA or whatever. nene and k we can shop. get rid of elsons *edit ***. one game means nothing...


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## cpawfan (Jun 20, 2004)

pac4eva5 said:


> i wouldnt mind giving up k-mart, elson, nene, some picks and some money for pierce
> 
> and even tho cpaw says trading martin would be a bad idea because we'd get nothing, thats fine with me. the SALARY alone is worth dumping for free...
> 
> i just hope kiki drafts right. he sucks at this...


It isn't like the Nuggets are going to get significantly under the cap with Melo's extension coming up and taking back salary for Nene in an S&T. Dumping his salary accomplishes nothing.


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## darth-horax (Nov 21, 2005)

Trade Nene and Najera for Paul Pierce. We have Kleiza and Elson (who's value is higher than thought). Elson is a capable, cheap big man...when we start him, we win. It's that simple. Keep him. He's only going to improve.

We'd probably have to throw in our first rounders from this year to make that work, so do it.

I think we could grab Roby...and that woudl be suhweet!

PP would solve the 2 guard problem. We'd still be large in the front court.

Unfortunately I don't see KMart going anywhere as we'd have to get a spoonfull of jell-o and some Krispy Kreme's for him. His contract is huge, but it's not as huge as it used to be. Wait on his rehab this year, let him get some rest, and see what he does. It may just be worth the wait...especially if we keep him coming off of the bench. That may be the best thing for him AND the team. His coming off of the bench will give us energy and depth. Imagine another team's PF getting hounded by Camby/Elson for 8 minutes just to look up and see KMart coming on to guard him.

Wow...

I just wonder what plans are in place for Dermarr Johnson? I've always like him, and he's good when he plays.

Karl just needs to give the young brotha some PT.


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## pac4eva5 (Dec 29, 2005)

cpawfan said:


> It isn't like the Nuggets are going to get significantly under the cap with Melo's extension coming up and taking back salary for Nene in an S&T. Dumping his salary accomplishes nothing.


$9 million is still $9 million. NO WAY pierce or another star have a shot at this team with k...

and nene's S&T doesnt matter because the (HELLO!!!) _*trade*_...????


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## denversfiinest (Feb 6, 2006)

K-Mart has, like it has been already said, not very much value, so if he does not come up very big on the Playoffs, I don't see him getting traded for sth. that would help us. I would like to keep all the big men. Nene has to improve and I guess, if he stayed here, he would. Webber needed his time to became a little better, so I hope this happens to K-Mart next year. Evans is just crazy and even without a lot of playing time he makes a lot for us. Najera is a hustle player and thats always great for a team. That Eason guy is always a good player and has been even a good starter. I'd like to keep them all even more because we have so much injury-loving players on the frontcourt. But that is unfortunatly not very possible


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## cpawfan (Jun 20, 2004)

pac4eva5 said:


> $9 million is still $9 million. NO WAY pierce or another star have a shot at this team with k...
> 
> and nene's S&T doesnt matter because the (HELLO!!!) _*trade*_...????


Do you understand how the salary cap works? Trades have to be balanced for salary which means that trading Nene away will require the Nuggets to take back salary unless they trade him to a team so far under the cap that they don't have to send salary back which likely won't happen.

Same applies for Kenyon. His salary would have to be matched in a trade, so the Nuggets would have to wait an entire year to get any benefit of trading him for expiring contracts which would significantly hurt the team during the season.

As far as the dollars, the Nuggets wouldn't be far enough under the cap to sign a big time FA outright, even if they completely made Kenyon's salary disappear. This means the only way they could acquire someone like Pierce is through a trade, which again, requires salaries to match.


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

cpawfan said:


> Do you understand how the salary cap works? Trades have to be balanced for salary which means that trading Nene away will require the Nuggets to take back salary unless they trade him to a team so far under the cap that they don't have to send salary back which likely won't happen.
> 
> Same applies for Kenyon. His salary would have to be matched in a trade, so the Nuggets would have to wait an entire year to get any benefit of trading him for expiring contracts which would significantly hurt the team during the season.
> 
> As far as the dollars, the Nuggets wouldn't be far enough under the cap to sign a big time FA outright, even if they completely made Kenyon's salary disappear. This means the only way they could acquire someone like Pierce is through a trade, which again, requires salaries to match.


its a soft cap and we will be over it.... my understanding is we will have the MLE, no vet exception this year, and a second round pick this summer.

so what he is saying is true, if you want a "star" your going to have to acquire him through a trade or sign and trade


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## AK-47 (Jul 7, 2005)

You guys are screwed, and no one will want to pay Kmart that much. In 2010 he will be making 16 mil


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## darth-horax (Nov 21, 2005)

We're screwed? We won the division!

You guys have Mehmet Okur...


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## pac4eva5 (Dec 29, 2005)

nbanoitall said:


> its a soft cap and we will be over it.... my understanding is we will have the MLE, no vet exception this year, and a second round pick this summer.
> 
> so what he is saying is true, if you want a "star" your going to have to acquire him through a trade or sign and trade


yea, last time i checked, everybody wanted a "star" or close to it at SG. this is the only way it gets done...


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## AK-47 (Jul 7, 2005)

darth-horax said:


> We're screwed? We won the division!
> 
> You guys have Mehmet Okur...


Diddn't you know that Mehmet Okur has been averaging 19/9 all season long? he is well worth his contract. 

Edit: Forgot to add that he hasn't missed a single game in the last 2 years on the jazz team. You can't say that about martin now can ya.


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

AK-47 said:


> Diddn't you know that Mehmet Okur has been averaging 19/9 all season long? he is well worth his contract.
> 
> Edit: Forgot to add that he hasn't missed a single game in the last 2 years on the jazz team. You can't say that about martin now can ya.


Mehmet Okur is turning out to be a decent player. But he is still a pansie. He really doesnt have a lot of trade value, because he doesnt bang. We arent screwed in the sense that we cant trade Martin, we are screwed in the sense that we wont get as much for him as will want.

Basically this is due to injury, I was pretty vocal that having Camby and Kmart on the same team (makes sense basketballwise) but I wouldnt have personally done it because I said (on this board when the sign and trade happened) that injuries would be a problem.

But if Kenyon came back in 06/07 healthy and played in a bunch of games early on, his value would shoot back up again.

Okur will never have that value because he doesnt bring energy or toughness, he's just a very tall girly-man, a big that wants to play outside (a one trick pony). A guy that just gets rebounds because he's tall and in the game long enough to be in the right place for a few. Martin would kick his *** up and down the court. And thats why your team is now becoming more competitive with AK47 and Boozer in the lineup. They play the way Nancy...ahh I mean Okur should.

And thats why teams would rather trade for and overpay Kmart than trade for Okur, because with Kmart can defend, run the floor, and bang.


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

pac4eva5 said:


> yea, last time i checked, everybody wanted a "star" or close to it at SG. this is the only way it gets done...


actually id still settle for Raja Bell. Id still like to work something out with the suns this summer. We would never give up Nene for Bell (and it wouldnt work salarywise anyways), but if we could get a couple of suns or draft picks. it would be interesting.


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## pac4eva5 (Dec 29, 2005)

nbanoitall said:


> actually id still settle for Raja Bell. Id still like to work something out with the suns this summer. We would never give up Nene for Bell (and it wouldnt work salarywise anyways), but if we could get a couple of suns or draft picks. it would be interesting.


well, raja bell is playing like a star on that team! very important piece he is. id love to grab him too...


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## AK-47 (Jul 7, 2005)

nbanoitall said:


> Mehmet Okur is turning out to be a decent player. But he is still a pansie. He really doesnt have a lot of trade value, because he doesnt bang. We arent screwed in the sense that we cant trade Martin, we are screwed in the sense that we wont get as much for him as will want.
> 
> Basically this is due to injury, I was pretty vocal that having Camby and Kmart on the same team (makes sense basketballwise) but I wouldnt have personally done it because I said (on this board when the sign and trade happened) that injuries would be a problem.
> 
> ...


Ya, you never need a 19/9 player. Doesn't matter how he does it, he gets it done. And btw, he goes for the basket. He fights for the rebound. He is the only player on the jazz to play in every game. And you know what, martin is on the bench doing "nothing" Okur is on the court doing 19/9/3/.5/1. So ya, what ever you want to say. 

Okur vs Martin the last game... good job martin, 9 and 7. 3-8 shooting. Way to go, o wait, okur got more.... 24/4 on 7-12 shooting. And tonight, he dropped 24/10 on you when boozer took 25/13 of the points/rebounds.

Nice job martin, your averaging 13/6 for the season. O wait, Okur is averaging 18/9.

Martin is a injury prone player that has only played in 54 games this season, so you are paying martin who is sitting on the bench more money than we are paying okur. So all I can say is :boohoo: 

I'm glad jazz management went after boozer rather than go after martin. Boozer is only 23 years old. So again, your paying a sub injured player a lot of money who is getting older and older while sitting on the bench.

You guys have got a deep lineup and bench and yet you only clinch the division 5 games from the playoffs when the jazz were missing 2 of there 3 best players for 70 games, and the starting SG (giricek) for 50, and the 6th man (harping) for 20-30.


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## pac4eva5 (Dec 29, 2005)

AK-47 said:


> Ya, you never need a 19/9 player. Doesn't matter how he does it, he gets it done. And btw, he goes for the basket. He fights for the rebound. He is the only player on the jazz to play in every game. And you know what, martin is on the bench doing "nothing" Okur is on the court doing 19/9/3/.5/1. So ya, what ever you want to say.
> 
> Okur vs Martin the last game... good job martin, 9 and 7. 3-8 shooting. Way to go, o wait, okur got more.... 24/4 on 7-12 shooting. And tonight, he dropped 24/10 on you when boozer took 25/13 of the points/rebounds.
> 
> ...


wait whaaaa???

"the jazz were missing 2 of there 3 best players for 70 games"

uhhhh, stockton and malone retired, so ya...

and why are u even talking ****? unless the lakers miss the team bus for the last 4 games, you guys are out of the playoffs, incase you didnt notice...

and lastly, comparing okur to k-mart in his worst season of his career w/ all the injury problems hes had is pretty low in my book. a healthy k-mart >>> okur

by your exaggerations, i'll add mine...
we had an all-star (camby) miss 30-40 games. an all-star (k-mart) miss 40-50 games. and a back-up big miss 81 games...

so thats 2 starting all-stars and #1 back-up out with guys like fransisco elson starting 40 games!!!

go away...


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## AK-47 (Jul 7, 2005)

pac4eva5 said:


> wait whaaaa???
> 
> "the jazz were missing 2 of there 3 best players for 70 games"
> 
> ...


Dude, even in his best season he isn't doing better than Okur is doing now. The only thing that jumps out is the extra steal per game.

Jazz 3-1 against nuggets this year.... OWNED. 

Ok, now we just wait for the nuggets to lose in the 1st round, wait until next season. Jazz get a better pick than denver and get a decent rookie. The jazz will be on a different level, while crymelo starts crying again because he doesn't get his way.


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

AK-47 said:


> Dude, even in his best season he isn't doing better than Okur is doing now. The only thing that jumps out is the extra steal per game.
> 
> Jazz 3-1 against nuggets this year.... OWNED.
> 
> Ok, now we just wait for the nuggets to lose in the 1st round, wait until next season. Jazz get a better pick than denver and get a decent rookie. The jazz will be on a different level, while crymelo starts crying again because he doesn't get his way.


 
your hangin on by a small thread buddy. you rag on carmelo because he does what? hits the high percentage of clutch shots in the league? has his team on top of the division? 

you compare kmart and okur on one game? I personally prefer to look at kmart from his day on the bearcats, to his days in the nba finals with the nets, and now on the nuggets. ya know, im 6'1 and i dont think okur could alter my shot. thats kinda sad. okur is a one trick pony. he wishes he was as fast as dirk or could be a guard. but he's not. you put him on a playoff or contender team, and he might contribute some but thats it. His numbers this year are de facto numbers, basically Mike James numbers or A. Walker numbers last year on the hawks. 

they dont mean as much as ben wallace numbers, or tim duncan numbers. 

you can keep dreaming about what if, and your draft pick or whatever, who do you think your going to draft, probably somebody like Hilton Armstrong. Wow, wont your team be on another level, now if you got Adam Morrison (which you wont), or if you land a top 5 pick . you might get something decent, but not necessarily.

if your counting on this years draft to turn the jazz into contenders, then what else can i say, but i pitty you and your desperate situation


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## pac4eva5 (Dec 29, 2005)

AK-47 said:


> Dude, even in his best season he isn't doing better than Okur is doing now. The only thing that jumps out is the extra steal per game.
> 
> Jazz 3-1 against nuggets this year.... OWNED.
> 
> Ok, now we just wait for the nuggets to lose in the 1st round, wait until next season. Jazz get a better pick than denver and get a decent rookie. The jazz will be on a different level, while crymelo starts crying again because he doesn't get his way.


crymelo? ur running out of ammo :rofl:

u beat us w/o camby AND kmart...again...get over yourself.

the jazz will be on a different level with a decent draft pick? :laugh:

didnt the jazz pick that ***** pg they have right now over chris paul?


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## cpawfan (Jun 20, 2004)

*Stop the smack talk and stop the trolling*


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## darth-horax (Nov 21, 2005)

I'd be interested in seeing a comparison of KMart vs. Okur in a per 48 minute scenario.


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