# What's the future like for the "WizKids"?



## ~above~darim21 (May 4, 2008)

This series between the Cavs and Wiz is becoming too dejavu' for me too handle anymore!!! In the words of Bill Walton, "Can someone please get Gilbert Arenas the ball?!" Sorry Bill, Gilbert Arenas couldn't even save us this time. Agent Zero tried his best too contribute to the series despite the state he was in but where was the teamwork showed throughout the season when Gilbert wasn't there too bail them out? The substitute big three of Antonio Jameson, Caron Butler, and Antonio Daniels just couldn't mesh like they were doing in Gilbert's absence all season long. I mean the poor free throw percentage in game 6 said it all, they were done for!  Caron Butler was once a driving force who could ignite his teamates around him too play with passion, but now his terrible shooting only drove the wizards home and out of the playoffs.:boohoo2: As the Wizards 2007-2008 comes to a close, I wanted to know what everyone's thoughts were about the season that was and the upcoming season as well? 

Will Jameson and Arenas be back, considering their contract situations? 
If they come back and stay healthy in particular Agent Zero, what kind of team can we expect to have?
If the team stays healthy and has success can we finally start too mention Eddie Jordan for coach of the year?

These are just some of the question I pose to the Wizard fans out there, but feel free too come up with your own and debate. Thanks and have fun.eace:


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## f22egl (Jun 3, 2004)

I expect the Wizards to re-sign Jamison unless another team offers way too much money to get him. If I had to guess, I see Gilbert Arenas in a Wizards uniform. If this team is healthy, they could win the division and get deeper into the playoffs. The question still remains whether Gilbert can recover back to 100%. I hope the injury is not a chronic one.


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## ~above~darim21 (May 4, 2008)

Yea, Gilbert has said he is gonna try anything including boxing too get back in shape this summer but come October we'll see how much he's hopefully improved his condition over the off season.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

The offseason will be defined by what happens with Arenas. Jamison is important, but the Arenas situation has greater bearing on what direction you'll go into the future. Either he'll be re-signed, or traded, there's no way he walks away free. 

Not a lot of teams are going to call after his knee injury and lackluster return. He seems to like the team, and Wizards' management has the inside info on his knee and it's prognosis. The Wizards have the inside track. I don't see him in any other uniform next year unless the Wizards don't want him, the ball is in their court. If he _does_ leave, if I were the next team, I'd be wondering why the Wizards didn't retain him. 

Resigning Jamison is important. Blatche is coming along, but he's not ready yet, and sometimes he doesn't look like he'll ever be a consistent starter. He tends to dissappear. Some of it has to do with EJ giving him spotty minutes in the rotation, but he's going to have to produce when he's out there to demand PT. Either way, if Jamison can be resigned at 4 yrs for 40-45M, that'll be a bargain.

The last time I remember Pollin spending major money he made some bad decisions on Austin and Howard, but they were under the guidance of Unseld, not Grunfeld. If I were Pollin, I'd trust Ernie this time around. 

The team isn't that far off. The entire team still hasn't played together, and I'd want to see what the team can do.


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## shyFX325 (Jul 28, 2002)

the wizkids?? Why does this myth that the wizards are a young team continue to be spread around. This group as is doesnt have long folks to push to that next level.

The wizards do have some young role players but even that term is a stretch. None of our young players have shown anything to believe they are going to be starting caliber players. No team that has andrae blatche as their most accomplished young player can try and pass themselves off as the wizkids (and i am the originator of the blatche bandwagon).

Arenas is the youngest of the big 3 and no one knows how much he has left in the tank. His whole game is based around his quickness and athleticism (which in turn opens up his amazing shot), he IS NOT a karl malone type player that will play at a high level late into his career. Jamison has always had injury problems and is getting ready to sign his last contract. Caron Butler, my fav of the 3, i think is already on borrowed time. The main reason he dropped so far in the draft was fear over wear and tear on both knees. Think he has about as many good years in him as jamsion does (2 maybe 3).

Than look at the rest of team... mason jr is gone after this year, ADaniels is also on borrowed time, Haywood is haywood... what young player really has you excited about their future? Nick Young?? Pecherov???


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

The excitement doesn't necessarily have to be in one player, it could be optimism about the collective, which is still a talented offensive team that made strides defensively last year.


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## f22egl (Jun 3, 2004)

The Wizards rely heavily on their veterans like Arenas, Butler, Jamison, Stevenson, Haywood, Daniels, and Songailia. However, Arenas and Butler are relatively young (26 and 28 respectively). Guys like Pecherov, McGuire, Young, and Blatche are all 23 or younger. Blatche is the youngest player on the team since he left high school a year early.

Sure, the best players on this team are clearly the veterans, but that does not mean that the young guys can improve. Most players see their biggest improvement in their 2nd and 3rd years in Eddie Jordan's offense. 

Out of the young players, I would say Nick Young excites me the most about the future. He seems like someone who could find himself in the starting rotation. Playing with DeShawn Stevenson may also help Young become a better defender who has all the physical tools to become a better defender.

Blatche and McGuire could become solid role players which would be important since the Wizards lack depth in the small forward and power forward posistions. I'm not so sure what to think about Pecherov; maybe he needs another year to adjust to playing in the NBA


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

I agree with you about Young, he was a good pick.

I'm still high on Blatche. I feel like he's too talented and versatile at the 4 to be just a rotation player. If he ever gets his mind right and comes consistently, he could be a very good player. His _worst_ case scenario is just a rotation guy, IMO.

Pecherov, I don't know. He doesn't look like more than a perimeter oriented Songaila. He'll be a decent rotation forward.


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## shyFX325 (Jul 28, 2002)

-forgive me about not being excited about a collection of 5-6 decent rotation players

-agree with you about nick young. he has all the physical tools to be a lockdown defender on any player under 6'2" (other than chris paul)

-I wouldnt view Butler being 28 as a positive


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## f22egl (Jun 3, 2004)

shyFX325 said:


> -forgive me about not being excited about a collection of 5-6 decent rotation players
> 
> -agree with you about nick young. he has all the physical tools to be a lockdown defender on any player under 6'2" (other than chris paul)
> 
> -I wouldnt view Butler being 28 as a positive


I agree with your sentiment that the young players are not what would excite the fans most about this team. Still, Ernie Grunfeld has done a serviceable job considering where this team has drafted. Since the Wizards have been making the playoffs the past 4 years, they have not had very high picks which lowers their chances of getting a star player

Andray Blatche - #48 
Pecherov- #18
Young- #16
McGuire - #47

Butler being 28 is one of those cases where the glass half full. On one hand, Caron Butler will likely not see any ground-breaking improvement in his game. However, Butler will probably be at his peak within the next 3-4 years.


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## f22egl (Jun 3, 2004)

Dre™ said:


> I agree with you about Young, he was a good pick.
> 
> I'm still high on Blatche. I feel like he's too talented and versatile at the 4 to be just a rotation player. If he ever gets his mind right and comes consistently, he could be a very good player. His _worst_ case scenario is just a rotation guy, IMO.
> 
> Pecherov, I don't know. He doesn't look like more than a perimeter oriented Songaila. He'll be a decent rotation forward.


I'm not sure what to think of Blatche because he is so inconsistent. He has a lot of potential, but players like Antawn Jamison have openly questioned his work ethic. Because he is so erratic from game to game, he reminds a bit of Kwame Brown. Although Blatche, on his worst day, brings more energy and hustle than Kwame ever did.

Next season is essentially going to be Blatche's 3rd year because he missed most of his rookie after being shot. Apparently, he is supposed to participate on the summer league team. Maybe he can take the next step and become a reliable rotational player.

Pecherov had a horrible rookie season, but I think he can become a serviceable player if he can consistently knock down his 3 pointers. He is supposed to be a gym rat, so maybe he will elevate his game next year.

If the Wizards have a successful draft, the Wizards would have a roster with 5 first and second year players and one player who is about as young as all of them. Maybe the Wizards will make a trade to get a more reliable veteran.


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## shyFX325 (Jul 28, 2002)

f22egl said:


> I agree with your sentiment that the young players are not what would excite the fans most about this team. Still, Ernie Grunfeld has done a serviceable job considering where this team has drafted. Since the Wizards have been making the playoffs the past 4 years, they have not had very high picks which lowers their chances of getting a star player
> 
> Andray Blatche - #48
> Pecherov- #18
> ...


you see now you are (unknowingly or not) changing the subject... its great what grunfeld has done with our draft picks but whether they are picked top 5 or UDFA none of those players have real all star, top level potential. 



> Butler being 28 is one of those cases where the glass half full. On one hand, Caron Butler will likely not see any ground-breaking improvement in his game. However, Butler will probably be at his peak within the next 3-4 years.


now i think this is just a case of good ol fashion homerism... butler being 28 is glass half full?? Peaking in 3-4 years?? We all saw butlers peak this year when gilbert was out and now we all need to hope he can continue playing at that level


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

I think Butler has peaked already, but I have no reason to believe his decline is going to be as sharp as people let on. Yeah, he is injury prone, but he's only 28, and he doesn't have a lingering knee or back type of issue. Allen Iverson has knick knack injuries every year for 11 years and he's still going strong at what, 33?

Butler will be fine.


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## shyFX325 (Jul 28, 2002)

i agree butler will be fine... i go kinda overboard with these people that expect caron to progress further and further each year that goes by... what you see now is what you are getting

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If denver makes this trade with NewJersey and there are no mentions of us trying to get in on it i am going to be pissed. If they would take a package based around jefferson, marcus williams, a draft pick and expiring salary you have to at least offer caron and a sign/trade jamison. The one thing we dont have to offer is a large expiring contract (nets still have KVH's contract to deal which i find hysterical). Camby would give us the defending/rebounding center we have wanted for so long and also (hopefully) mentors blatche (which i think would be huge for a player that skipped out on college). 

PG - gil
SG - stevenson
sf - melo
pf - blatche/camby/pech
c - camby/haywood

6 - nick young/AD

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while i am writing up crazy, ridiculous trade ideas why dont i just throw an arenas sign/trade for brand in there as well...

pg - daniels/(earl boykins still available??)
sg - stevenson/nick young
sf - melo/draft pick or mle
pf - brand/blatche/songalia/pecherov/
c - camby/haywood/thomas

in the history of "message board proposed wizards lineups that will never happen (within reason)" that one takes the cake as my all time favorite. Ive always like the style of play we use with AD running the offense alot more than gilbert ball... you get him distributing the ball to the best front line since the original dream team... nick young coming off the bench in hopefully a ben gordon type role... love it


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## shyFX325 (Jul 28, 2002)

with chicago winning the lottery (and supposedly having their eyes set on derrick rose) you have to wonder about the availability of kirk hinrich. Would love to see him (or any other true pg as talented him) in DC


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## Deke (Jul 27, 2005)

i dont think this team will ever get to even the ecf. i think they should trade antawn and gilbert for a ton of picks and rebuild around nick,haywood,and butler.


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## shyFX325 (Jul 28, 2002)

Deke said:


> i dont think this team will ever get to even the ecf.


should have just stopped here... everything goes sharply down hill from here on



> i think they should trade antawn and gilbert for a ton of picks


Other than killing another of the bulls competitors why would anyone think this is a good idea?? 

Completely idiotic... whats your best case scenario for something like this? Getting 4 extra firsts over the next 3 years (teams cant trade consecutive 1sts, maybe getting 3 over 6 for gil?)?? Than just think about the horrible contracts we would need to take on in order to make salaries even out?? If gil signs a max deal do you know how much crap we would have to take on to come within 115%?? Than pile on more garbage from Jamisons deal... Not only does it put us in salary cap hell it puts us 4-5 years away having any chance to even be the middling team we are now.



> and rebuild around nick,haywood,and butler.



youve done it:clap::clap::clap:... youve somehow come up with a worst idea than trading gilbert/jamison for a bunch of picks/bad contracts. Im as big a Nick Young fan as anyone but has he done anything to prove he is anything more than a 6th man?? When Brandon Haywood is your 2nd best player you can write off any chance of seeing the playoffs.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

If Hinrich came do you think Gilbert could move to the 2? I think Hinrich can guard most 2s in the league.


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## Deke (Jul 27, 2005)

shyFX325 said:


> should have just stopped here... everything goes sharply down hill from here on
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well as it stands arenas and antawn arent even getting you guys out of the 1st round.

so you want to get the 4 seed instead of the 8 seed and continually lose in the first round?

you have to get worse before you get better.

the team needs to commit to young talent and work from the ground up. i would try trading arenas for a high lottery pick, a big 2 year contract, and a next year 1st rounder. maybe new york for stephon marbury?

antawn as well isnt going to win you anything. i would try trading him back to the warriors for their 14th pick. maybe get al harrington and a filler with the deal as well.

i mean yeah your gonna get worse but its the EAST! youll probably still make the playoffs and if you miss thats just one more lottery pick.

you would rather lose in the first round for the next 4 years and then suck *** and have caron be 32. arenas 30. jamison 35 and have never gotten past the 1st round?


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## Big Mike (Jun 7, 2005)

Man get the **** out of here, you're obviously are not a Wiz fan that doesn't carry any susbstance towards the plans of the Wizards future. I mean give up Gil and Tawn for a bunch of picks (no lottery ones at that) and bad trades Wizards would be back to a laughing stock just like that team in your avatar was the last 10 years. Just go away troll.


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## Deke (Jul 27, 2005)

Big Mike said:


> Man get the **** out of here, you're obviously are not a Wiz fan that doesn't carry any susbstance towards the plans of the Wizards future. I mean give up Gil and Tawn for a bunch of picks (no lottery ones at that) and bad trades Wizards would be back to a laughing stock just like that team in your avatar was the last 10 years. Just go away troll.


what are you talking about? i said trade it gil for a lottery pick and marbury then lot that big contract expire.

i said trade antawn for ANOTHER lottery pick and harrington.

that is 2 lottery picks


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

Doesn't make sense. There aren't two lottery picks that'll even be better than Arenas and Jamison in this draft. 

Maybe between 1-3 you can find it, but what are the chances you could get those picks?


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## Deke (Jul 27, 2005)

Dre™;5507454 said:


> Doesn't make sense. There aren't two lottery picks that'll even be better than Arenas and Jamison in this draft.
> 
> Maybe between 1-3 you can find it, but what are the chances you could get those picks?


how do you know this?

and arenas and jamison aint winning crap for you now. they are both defensive liabilites and your constantly losing in the 1st round so why not make a youth movement?

hell dwade beat you guys singlehandedly with antawn,hughes,and gil.

i would rather be worse and have alot of young talented players then have some talented guys who are getting older and drop in the 1st round every year in a HORRIBLE conference.


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## shyFX325 (Jul 28, 2002)

dre said:


> There aren't two lottery picks that'll even be better than Arenas and Jamison in this draft.





Deke said:


> how do you know this?


because we actually have a realistic view on the game and the rest of the league...

yeah there are going to be players in the 5-15 range who catch fire and turn out to be stars but just because you are a lottery pick does not mean you are going to be a star, doesnt even mean you are going to be a starter



> and arenas and jamison aint winning crap for you now. they are both defensive liabilites and your constantly losing in the 1st round so why not make a youth movement?


ild rather lose in the first than lose 72 games a year like your lineup would



> hell dwade beat you guys singlehandedly with antawn,hughes,and gil.


hughes?? larry hughes?? how long ago was that?? Anything from what? 3 years ago is completely irrelevant today.



> i would rather be worse and have alot of young talented players then have some talented guys who are getting older and drop in the 1st round every year in a HORRIBLE conference.


Well your none of your ideas is going to get us "alot of talented young players"... if we are talking about trading our current roster for the blazers roster its a no brainer, whats the best your ideas are getting us?? Kevin Love (gilbert traded for 6th pick) and Eric Gordon (aj traded for 10-12 pick)?? that idea sucks

i know its tough for a virginian chicago bulls fan, aka a bandwagon rider, to understand this but you cant just completely turn your back on a group of fans like that. The bullets/wizards had been in the basement of the league for years, hell decades minus a year or two with webber + howard, and were just starting to get a good fanbase going. There is no way to spin we are trading all of the players you have grown to love for stephan f-ing marbury and 2 or 3 19 year olds


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## shyFX325 (Jul 28, 2002)

Deke said:


> you have to get worse before you get better.


most of the time this is true... your plan though gets us waaaaay worse, like bottom of the league worse and doesnt offer any chance of getting better in the forseeable future (short of a mid to late lottery pick catching fire)


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## shyFX325 (Jul 28, 2002)

so i dont know why the bucks are (supposedly) thinking about trading charlie villaneueva but i would be all over him if he was available. I admitedly dont watch alot of bucks games but he absolutely killed us when he came to DC.

package jamison and blatche for CV and bobby simmons??


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## NY1 (May 26, 2008)

It all comes down to two things: The health of Gilbert Arenas and whether he can go back to the caliber he was playing during the 06/07 season and this off-season. Ernie Grunfeld has the opportunity to improve this team even after re-signing Arenas/Jamison. There is a very deep free agent pool this off-season with some valuable big men and wings who could be valuable off the bench. Guys like Mickael Pietrus or Matt Barnes would be valuable pickups and could give Caron more of a rest which could reduce the amount of time he has to sit out due to injuries. Then there is Andres Biedrins who is used to the up-tempo system in Golden State (just like the two wings) and could create a very strong center rotation with Haywood.

Grunfeld has hinted that he will trade the 18th pick so packaging away a guy like Daniels who despite having a bad contract could help a team without a PG. If we could find a way to bring in Udonis Haslem from Miami, who will probably look to move him because Beasley is likely on his way there, would be terrific.

If Arenas leaves then we'll see what happens. We could probably still be a playoff team in the East but probably will be a 40-45 win team who will lose in 5-6 games in the first round.


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## shyFX325 (Jul 28, 2002)

i just dont see any way we can trade AD when we already have these questions about gilbert and no one behind him. If gil doesnt come back or god forbid gets hurt again who do we have to run the offense? Signing NBDLers to 10 days??

For all the **** daniels is given he has played very well since the day he arrived in washington.


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## NY1 (May 26, 2008)

shyFX325 said:


> i just dont see any way we can trade AD when we already have these questions about gilbert and no one behind him. If gil doesnt come back or god forbid gets hurt again who do we have to run the offense? Signing NBDLers to 10 days??
> 
> For all the **** daniels is given he has played very well since the day he arrived in washington.


The fact of the matter is we are in a very sticky situation right now and there will need to be risks taken. If we do deal Daniels, which I never said we should I said 'a player like Daniels' meaning a valuable role-player, we would need to pick up a backup PG but the MLE should give us the cash needed to bring in a solid backup.

Also despite being unlikely, I'm hoping teams pass on Mason and we can get him with LLE or the bi-annual exception.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

I think we're forgetting that Etan Thomas will reenter the equation in the post next year. He's a good rebounder and is probably the best shotblocker on the team, people are proposing moves as if he doesn't exist.

And I don't really like that Villanueva deal you posted Shy. Blatche and Villanueva have a fairly similiar skillset but I believe Blatche will be better than him, plus Simmons fell off ever since he got that contract. That would definitely be a step back for the franchise.

If people want to talk big men I'll continue to contend that Jermaine O'Neal is the best value out there. In terms of his potential production vs. what you'd have to give up for him, it's worth it for a team seemingly trying to win now.


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## shyFX325 (Jul 28, 2002)

Dre™ said:


> I think we're forgetting that Etan Thomas will reenter the equation in the post next year. He's a good rebounder and is probably the best shotblocker on the team, people are proposing moves as if he doesn't exist.


its going to be nice to have etan back, will provide an extra bdy and 6 fouls for when we go up against the san antonios/orlandos/phoenixs but even before this health scare etan was not a difference maker. As of right now i would be proposing moves as if he doesnt exist, we dont know the long term effects or even if he is completely past these problems. Even if he does come back full strength we still need a low post scoring threat and someone who does what etan does well (d, rebound) but better

how do we now that haywood wont regress and lose all the progress he made last year once the headache of playing next to thomas returns??



> And I don't really like that Villanueva deal you posted Shy. Blatche and Villanueva have a fairly similiar skillset but I believe Blatche will be better than him, plus Simmons fell off ever since he got that contract. That would definitely be a step back for the franchise.


im not saying its the greatest move in the history of the world but (even with the loss of AJ) it would make us instantly better. 

Comparing blatche and villanueva? you have to be kidding me, thats like saying we wouldnt want dirk because pecherov has a similar skill set (well not that extreme but you get the point). Charlie is light years ahead of andrae on both sides of the court. Ballhandling, outside shot, body control... whole different level of player. I see what CV is now as blatche's ceiling, best case scenario. The rhomulan on the other hand is just starting out and still has awhile to go

by doing the bucks a favor and picking up simmons is the only way i could see the deal happening. 1) CV is only making 3-4 million 2) no one is trading an old jamison for a young charlie and not sending out some garbage with him



> If people want to talk big men I'll continue to contend that Jermaine O'Neal is the best value out there. In terms of his potential production vs. what you'd have to give up for him, it's worth it for a team seemingly trying to win now.


i was on that bandwagon for a while but jermaine lost me sometime over this year. just dont see him as a player i really want.


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## NY1 (May 26, 2008)

Apparently Ernie now has his mind set on drafting with the pick.

I don't think Grunfeld has pulled off a deal involving players since Butler. (Navarro doesn't count)

Also, I think you're overrating Villanueva and underrating Andray Blatche. He's definitely better but not 'light years ahead'.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

shyFX325 said:


> its going to be nice to have etan back, will provide an extra bdy and 6 fouls for when we go up against the san antonios/orlandos/phoenixs but even before this health scare etan was not a difference maker. As of right now i would be proposing moves as if he doesnt exist, we dont know the long term effects or even if he is completely past these problems. Even if he does come back full strength we still need a low post scoring threat and someone who does what etan does well (d, rebound) but better


I agree, his injury is somewhat uncharted territory, but for what he previously delivered, decent backup minutes at the 4/5, I'm willing to bet he'll be fine. The team does need points in the post, but the situation isn't as dire as I see it intimated here. 



> how do we now that haywood wont regress and lose all the progress he made last year once the headache of playing next to thomas returns??


I doubt that'll be the case, seeing as how Haywood has steadily improved every year he's been in the league. He's pretty close to his peak production, but he's too young to substantially regress. I think that situation is overrated. Haywood had been improving as an individual with Thomas on the roster, and if anything it'll make him more of an asset. 




> im not saying its the greatest move in the history of the world but (even with the loss of AJ) it would make us instantly better.
> 
> Comparing blatche and villanueva? you have to be kidding me, thats like saying we wouldnt want dirk because pecherov has a similar skill set (well not that extreme but you get the point). Charlie is light years ahead of andrae on both sides of the court. Ballhandling, outside shot, body control... whole different level of player. I see what CV is now as blatche's ceiling, best case scenario. The rhomulan on the other hand is just starting out and still has awhile to go
> 
> by doing the bucks a favor and picking up simmons is the only way i could see the deal happening. 1) CV is only making 3-4 million 2) no one is trading an old jamison for a young charlie and not sending out some garbage with him


I think you're overrating Villanueva as well. He's a talented scorer and impressively skilled for a big man, but he's pretty much another Al Harrington. 

Of course right now he's beter than Blatche, but within the next two years I expect that to change. Blatche already shows the skills you mention Villanueva having, as far as ballhandling and shooting ability, but I think he's a better defender than Villanueva already. He's already a very good help defender, he would consistently come over for the weakside block near the rim, plus I believe his body makes him a better one on one defender.

Charlie is a good scorer, but he doesn't do much of anything beyond that.



> i was on that bandwagon for a while but jermaine lost me sometime over this year. just dont see him as a player i really want.


People think he's finished, I just think he's bored. He can still give a team 17-9...that would be better than anything the Wizards have had in a very long time.


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## f22egl (Jun 3, 2004)

I think the Wizards could get Charlie V by simply giving up Blatche. I probably would not give up Blatche for Villanueva because Blatche looks like he can be a decent defender/energy guy.


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