# Bash Zeke



## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

all you want,but I think the guy is very shrewd...He got phoenix to take KT for Q and Super nate.He grabbed Ariza in the secound round.And in hindsight he STOLE JC.(who is probably going to get us Kwame)

Yes JC is out of control and has his defecincies,but he does put up 17 and 4..And Zeke "only" paid 7 mil...Larry Hughes just signed with CLE for 12 million dollars!!!!And Joe Johnson is looking at MAX money from Atlanta

I am not saying Hughes/johnson isnt better than JC,but 12 million dollars/max money???Hughes has been in the league for 2 more years and is a 2/3 while JC is 1/2 playing out of position.JJ is a great talent,but put JC in a run and gun tempo alongside nash with amare and see what he puts up.If JC improves his game at all,he is a 12 mil per year talent...

Zeke is good


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

Zeke has made some good moves in his career, and some bad ones. One of my favorites was him drafting T-Mac for the Raptors. 

Let's be fair, he wasn't in an ideal situation when he got here, but he's shaked up the roster enough and has improved this team from where it was a couple of years ago.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

Turkish Delight said:


> Zeke has made some good moves in his career, and some bad ones. One of my favorites was him drafting T-Mac for the Raptors.
> 
> Let's be fair, he wasn't in an ideal situation when he got here, but he's shaked up the roster enough and has improved this team from where it was a couple of years ago.


man,GRAHAM IS fukking Shredded..

If you look at the roster and potential trades, he has taken a team that was not athletic,old and HORRIBLE to watch to a team that is really going to be athletic and hopefully competitive..but he better find a coach soon


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## The True Essence (May 26, 2003)

the squad we got now should be pretty fun to watch, compared to the snore fests of the layden suckfests


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

PennyHardaway said:


> the squad we got now should be pretty fun to watch, compared to the snore fests of the layden suckfests


they should have one of the most exciting teams in the league assuming they can rebound the ball and Steph can run the break...and not eat up 22 seconds pounding the ball


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## Keith Closs (May 13, 2003)

ill judge zeke by wins not how "exciting" the team is..you know whats exciting ? wins..

if we score 110 a game and lose 50 games who cares..


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## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

One obvious lesson that last year reiterated is that you can't judge a team on paper, it's about fit and chemistry, especially on a Marbury led team. On Steph's talent we achieved what I considered a rightful 16-13 record. Then came the fractured divisions and the team plummeted. So I don't care how we come out of the gate, I want to see how we evolve.

If Steph is still playing 40 mins, plodding the ball up court and resting on D you know he's still calling the shots and being coddled, which I would consider a disaster.


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## alphadog (Jan 2, 2004)

*I'm not a Layden lover...*

But the Knicks B.M. (before Marbury) were on a very serious roll before the trade. Its anyones guess how they would have done for the rest of the season but they were winning and entertaining. That is the truth.....

I'm sure if H2o went down we were screwed but they were playing well....especially W/O a center.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

son of oakley said:


> One obvious lesson that last year reiterated is that you can't judge a team on paper, it's about fit and chemistry, especially on a Marbury led team. On Steph's talent we achieved what I considered a rightful 16-13 record. Then came the fractured divisions and the team plummeted. So I don't care how we come out of the gate, I want to see how we evolve.
> 
> If Steph is still playing 40 mins, plodding the ball up court and resting on D you know he's still calling the shots and being coddled, which I would consider a disaster.


Oak,the only thing I ask is that we have a coach who has the authority to play the best players,and not some puppet on a string...

I think the reason Marbury refuses to support Herb is his 4th quarter benchings in favor of Crawford..I think people underestimate chemistry and leadership and overestimate ppg,apg....

Not many people are willing to run thru walls for marbury,and those that would want his head attatched to it


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## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

*Re: I'm not a Layden lover...*



alphadog said:


> But the Knicks B.M. (before Marbury) were on a very serious roll before the trade. Its anyones guess how they would have done for the rest of the season but they were winning and entertaining. That is the truth.....
> 
> I'm sure if H2o went down we were screwed but they were playing well....especially W/O a center.


That's true, but lets face it, whatever their little run, they were peaking - Houston was going down, Dyess was having his rehab abused, and Van Horn was on the verge of being our best player. That squad could never have built up momentum cause it was all up hill from there (if not over-the-hill).

Knowing what I know now, I'd have liked to have seen us just sit Houston and Dyess, let the contracts expire, tank the season and draft perhaps Iggy, or at the least JR/Josh Smith, and worked on a full and traditional rebuild.

However, that wasn't done and we have to give Marbury credit for rejuvanating fan interest in the club. isiah and he put the Knicks back on the papers and turned the lights back on in the garden. I'm more than willing to acknowledge that and applaud it, but at the same time I think its served it's useful function and I'm ready to enter the next phase - without Steph. Lets give him a nice gold watch and a little half-time video tribute and move him for a big, or some picks and cap space. Our backcourt is full now and I'm not sure he;s our best PG, or SG, or with Nate aboard even our fan favorite. We can absorb a loss of his points and the loss of his negative "leadership" could be a boon.

And notice that ISiah has brought in Crawford's "boys" from Washington. Q and Nate are supposedly tight with JC, leaving Steph the odd man out in the backcourt. Coincidence, or strategic alliance?


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: I'm not a Layden lover...*



son of oakley said:


> And notice that ISiah has brought in Crawford's "boys" from Washington. Q and Nate are supposedly tight with JC, leaving Steph the odd man out in the backcourt. Coincidence, or strategic alliance?


Oak,I think the sad fact is there are no takers of Marbury,and everyone knows marbury is not the point guard you want if you are going to run..

That is why i want a coach who has the full authority to play who he feels is best for the team


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## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

*Re: I'm not a Layden lover...*



truth said:


> Oak,I think the sad fact is there are no takers of Marbury,and everyone knows marbury is not the point guard you want if you are going to run..
> 
> That is why i want a coach who has the full authority to play who he feels is best for the team


Amen, but that's something Isiah has the authority to grant any coach. If he isn't able to obtain a single coach he respects over his 1.5 years here, with all those who were available, he's either a bad evaluator of coaching talent or an equally difficult personality to fit.


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## NYKBaller (Oct 29, 2003)

But think about it, When has Marbury been in a running system? I mean with phoenix I felt they ran the ball pretty well. Now we can run and if they keep up, post up Tim Thomas/Q Rich/Sweetney(or Stromile Swift)


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: I'm not a Layden lover...*



alphadog said:


> But the Knicks B.M. (before Marbury) were on a very serious roll before the trade. Its anyones guess how they would have done for the rest of the season but they were winning and entertaining. That is the truth.....
> 
> I'm sure if H2o went down we were screwed but they were playing well....especially W/O a center.



whats a serious roll ?

the knicks were on a 2 game losing streak when steph played his 1st game. and 5-5 in their last 10.

they may have been righting the ship ...but serious roll might be overstating it and with what we know now about Houston the marbury deal was definitely for the best.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: I'm not a Layden lover...*



son of oakley said:


> Amen, but that's something Isiah has the authority to grant any coach. If he isn't able to obtain a single coach he respects over his 1.5 years here, with all those who were available, he's either a bad evaluator of coaching talent or an equally difficult personality to fit.



It appeared that Marbury always had the direct line to Zeke and it put the coach in a tenuous position.I am hoping that between Lenny voicing displeasure with marbury,Phil absolutely hating his game,marbury running KVH out,and KT wanting to kill him the honeymoon is over and Zeke can see straight..

Am I the only one that finds it odd that marbury has shown no suppport of Herb? Is it because Herb benched marbury in several 4th quarters??Or maybe herb sucks as a coach...


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## The True Essence (May 26, 2003)

as soon as frank started, we won 3 straight, in blowout fashion. thats when we traded for steph......

3 game winning streaks are serious considering how much we suck


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

PennyHardaway said:


> as soon as frank started, we won 3 straight, in blowout fashion. thats when we traded for steph......
> 
> 3 game winning streaks are serious considering how much we suck


i remember when frank started..i thought he ran the team really well....


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## Knicksfan3 (Jun 23, 2005)

truth said:


> i remember when frank started..i thought he ran the team really well....


Yeah Frank actually was a decent option for us at PG...well we can complain all we want about Marbury but it ain't gonna do us any good at this point unless he is somehow traded away, which doesn't seem likely anymore. At this point Zeke needs to bring in big men to help the team and then look at other potential trades. If we don't end up with a big man to help fill the middle, we are going to be in big trouble this year.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

Knicksfan3 said:


> Yeah Frank actually was a decent option for us at PG...well we can complain all we want about Marbury but it ain't gonna do us any good at this point unless he is somehow traded away, which doesn't seem likely anymore. At this point Zeke needs to bring in big men to help the team and then look at other potential trades. If we don't end up with a big man to help fill the middle, we are going to be in big trouble this year.


we will definetly get either kwame or hunter....maybe james


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## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

*Re: I'm not a Layden lover...*



truth said:


> It appeared that Marbury always had the direct line to Zeke and it put the coach in a tenuous position.I am hoping that between Lenny voicing displeasure with marbury,Phil absolutely hating his game,marbury running KVH out,and KT wanting to kill him the honeymoon is over and Zeke can see straight..
> 
> Am I the only one that finds it odd that marbury has shown no suppport of Herb? Is it because Herb benched marbury in several 4th quarters??Or maybe herb sucks as a coach...


One would think Isiah has learned, but Big C reminded me that Herb had benched Marbury for a 4th, and Crawford ran the team really well, and Herb said something like "and you'll be seeing a lot more of it too", which got some of us excited. Then Isiah had a sit down and two days later Herb issued a retraction. So I don't know if Herbs a great coach, but he does have the onions to sit Marbury's butt, but he doesn't seem to have the authority. And neither apparently did Lenny HOF Wilkens. 

So would Larry Brown, Flip Saunders, Bill Laimbeer, PJ Carlisimo, or any other possible candidate? One would assume the established ones would, but who knows what sort of joint coachingship Isiah has in mind here. He seems to like tweener players at every position, so I get the sense he still views himself a tweener coach/manager, and I'd be surprised if he's ready to vacate the tunnel for higher ground.

So the question is, after Lenny has Isiah learned anything? Is he going to empower the next coach with autonomy? Is he going to allow him to chose his own assistants, lineups, rotations, give his own speeches, and dole out punishments, etc, or is he going to undermine the coaches authority without allowing them to fail or succeed by their own means, and keep a revolving door of fall-guys coming in? I mean if he's gonna sort through a dozen applicants all summer long only to choose Herb, and then treat him like a novice, what is the point of it all?


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