# Allen Iverson VS Isiah Thomas



## nastynas (Oct 1, 2005)

who is the best SMALL man To play in the NBA?


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

I'll take the guy with the healthy achilles tendon.


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## ChrisWoj (May 17, 2005)

Well, I give the edge on overall smallness to Iverson, who at 6'0 and 165 gives up a theoretical inch to Thomas, and a theoretical 15 pounds. In reality I'd say Iverson is likely more like two inches and 25 pounds lighter than Thomas, but that's just my opinion.

Scoring - Iverson
Quickness - Iverson
Passing - Thomas
Decision Making - Thomas
Defense - Push

Overall... I'd love to say Thomas, but I think that in the end Iverson is going to be looked back on as the better player. In reality it is hard to compare them because Thomas spent his entire career as a Point Guard, this is only Iverson's third season (second in a row) in his entire career at that position.

By the way, defensively I think Thomas was a little more sound but Iverson is more of a ballhawk. And in terms of decision making, Thomas didn't have a pretty turnover per game number, but his teams were 110 point per game teams in a different era, which is why I gave him the decision making edge.

Really an interesting question, also interesting (if you look at basketball-reference.com) is how Iverson has gone from being an Isaiah-clone his 1st year in the league, to his last year as a SG where he was a Dumars-clone. That transformation really shows the breadth of what AI can do out on the court, that he could be compared to a HoF Point and then at another position to a should-be-HoF Wing.


-Chris.


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## LamarButler (Apr 16, 2005)

I always hear people saying Isiah was a good defender.


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## GTA Addict (Jun 27, 2005)

I've always thought Isiah was overrated just because he was a leader of a great Pistons team that won back to back. But those Pistons were LOADED. Isiah as a scorer actually wasn't that much more efficient than AI (only .008 more in TS%), and AI averages 9 more points and 3 less assists. AI could never average 13.9 assists but Isiah could never average 34+ ppg. Both have tremendous heart. Both have been on All-NBA First Team 3 times. Isiah has rings but was on a loaded team. AI has an MVP and scoring titles and hasn't had the supporting cast that Isiah had.

This will be a debate for the ages. I'm going with AI since I think he could carry a team further if both were given the same supporting cast.


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## ChrisWoj (May 17, 2005)

GTA Addict said:


> I've always thought Isiah was overrated just because he was a leader of a great Pistons team that won back to back. But those Pistons were LOADED. Isiah as a scorer actually wasn't that much more efficient than AI (only .008 more in TS%), and AI averages 9 more points and 3 less assists. AI could never average 13.9 assists but Isiah could never average 34+ ppg. Both have tremendous heart. Both have been on All-NBA First Team 3 times. Isiah has rings but was on a loaded team. AI has an MVP and scoring titles and hasn't had the supporting cast that Isiah had.
> 
> This will be a debate for the ages. I'm going with AI since I think he could carry a team further if both were given the same supporting cast.


I argued, narrowly, in favor of AI... but if Isaiah isn't going for distribution and 14 assists per game... you don't think it is feasible that he could have taken those 21+ ppg in that season and upped them over 30? Especially in that era? I think it is altogether possible.


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## KoBe & BeN GoRdOn! (Aug 4, 2005)

Allen Iverson


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## Brian. (Jul 11, 2002)

futuristxen said:


> I'll take the guy with the healthy achilles tendon.


And I will take the guy that doesn't ***** about practice.


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## ChrisWoj (May 17, 2005)

Brian said:


> And I will take the guy that doesn't ***** about practice.


Iverson, over the past few years, has been an advocate about practice. A pretty strong one, actually, and it shows in his game. He was young and said something stupid. Your argument in the other thread convinced me against my position in this one... but that comment was stupid, c'mon Brian, Pistons fans around here expect more out of you 


-Chris.


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

Best small man: Bob Cousy.

Between the 2 in question: Isiah.


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## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

Yeah, but Bob Cousy played in an era where most other players weren't significantly bigger, relatively speaking. Thomas and Iverson play/played in an era of giants, and Iverson even moreso because the perimeter players of his day are far bigger and more athletic than they were in the late 80s.


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## Brian. (Jul 11, 2002)

GTA Addict said:


> I've always thought Isiah was overrated just because he was a leader of a great Pistons team that won back to back. But those Pistons were LOADED. Isiah as a scorer actually wasn't that much more efficient than AI (only .008 more in TS%), and AI averages 9 more points and 3 less assists. AI could never average 13.9 assists but Isiah could never average 34+ ppg. Both have tremendous heart. Both have been on All-NBA First Team 3 times. Isiah has rings but was on a loaded team. AI has an MVP and scoring titles and hasn't had the supporting cast that Isiah had.
> 
> This will be a debate for the ages. I'm going with AI since I think he could carry a team further if both were given the same supporting cast.


I don't understand peoples infactuation with scoring. On a bad team a marginal nba all star can score 25 pts per game. See Jerry Stackhouse he scored almost 30 pts a game on a bad pistons team in 01.


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## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

Brian said:


> I don't understand peoples infactuation with scoring. On a bad team a marginal nba all star can score 25 pts per game. See Jerry Stackhouse he scored almost 30 pts a game on a bad pistons team in 01.


What about the season Iverson averaged 31 ppg, carrying the Sixers to a 56-26 record and the NBA Finals and winning MVP in the process?


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## Brian. (Jul 11, 2002)

Spriggan said:


> What about the season Iverson averaged 31 ppg, carrying the Sixers to a 56-26 record and the NBA Finals and winning MVP in the process?


Again different era's. I guess I will use what I consider Isiah's best year statistically. In 1985 Isiah averaged 21.2 and 14 assist per game. Isiah lost in the 6 games that year in the 2nd round. I already posted the pistons roster in the other thread. AI played the toronto raptors in the 2nd round that year.



> Vince Carter
> Antonio Davis
> Alvin Williams
> Charles Oakley
> ...


Whereas Isiah had to play the boston celtics.



> Larry Bird
> Kevin McHale
> Robert Parish
> Dennis Johnson
> ...


You obviously can't fault AI for playing in this era but the competition was far superior back then. I am not even arguing that AI isn't a great player but Isiah was just amazing. Making it to the finals in the 80's was a bigger accolmpishment then 2001.


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

Spriggan said:


> Yeah, but Bob Cousy played in an era where most other players weren't significantly bigger, relatively speaking. Thomas and Iverson play/played in an era of giants, and Iverson even moreso because the perimeter players of his day are far bigger and more athletic than they were in the late 80s.


Well, then we can't ask the question "who is the best SMALL man To play in the NBA".

If it's like "who is the best SMALL man To play in the NBA *in the last 20 years*", then it's Isiah #1, Iverson #2, IMHO


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

i dont like to knock one guy to promote another, they were both pound for pound great players, having said that you have to use some criteria to decide who would be the best and winning championships works for me.


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## adarsh1 (May 28, 2003)

Isiah


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## ralaw (Feb 24, 2005)

I voted for Isiah (due to championships), but truthfully IMHO, neither are better. I believe Allen Iverson is the better talent, but Isiah Thomas had the better supporting cast. Now, IMHO if AI had toned down his shooting and moved to the point guard position early in his career I think he would have atleast one championship ring. Making him the easy winner.


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## Nate505 (Aug 22, 2003)

nastynas said:


> who is the best SMALL man To play in the NBA?


These two players aren't the greatest comparison. Iverson is by far a better scorer and Thomas is by far the better passer, and they really didn't do the same things on offense, as Thomas was more a traditional PG while Iverson is a more traditional 2 guard.

It would be tough to pick one. Thomas has more team accomplishments for sure, is one of the top 5 PG's to lace them up, and was one of the most clutch players ever. But Thomas also had more talented players around him, and never got an MVP like Iverson did, although in Thomas' time the competition was greater.


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## Nate505 (Aug 22, 2003)

What qualfies one as a 'small' man? Six feet 1 and under? If so, you got Iverson, Thomas, John Stockton, Nate Archibald, Kevin Johnson (although injuries really cut him short of being up there on this list).....ok, that's all I can think of now.


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