# Memphis Grizzlies Commentary And Analysis



## kingofkings

A very important season coming up. If any trades emerge I will be sure to update this analysis!

Centre Rotation - Lorenzen Wright, Trybanski, Massenburg
Power Forward - Pau Gasol, Drew Gooden, Stromile Swift
Small Forward - Shane Battier, Grant Long(FA)
Shooting Guards - Michael Dickerson, Wesley Person, Giricek
Points Guards - Jason Williams, Brevin Knight, Earl Watson.

CENTRES

LORENZEN WRIGHT

Well, he has never established himself as a consistent player. In his days with the Clippers, he had his nights but then disappeared for games at a time. He never became the shotblocking power forward that the Hawks had hoped for either. He was having a huge season, before he got injured. Who could forget that monstrous 30 and 20 game he had against Dallas!.

The issue with Wright is that he is 6"11, is long and athletic, but is not a shotblocker. He has the tools to be but he does not reject the shots that he needs to. He likes to sit back and react to the offensive player, instead of going after them with some defense, like Mutombo and Mourning do. He does not seem to contest enough shots for my liking, which is a reason why his blocks are not enough.He never learned what he needed to from Mutombo about post defense. He is not a poor defender by any means but he has the tools to be a Mourning type player. He just needs to be more aggressive!

The problem with not being a shotblocker is that no-one will fear driving at you. He needs to impose his presence on the game more and start having an impact on defense. he likes to sit back and wait for the rebound and this is not the way to go. I remember after a game I heard him criticising Gasol for missed defensive assignments, but in that particular game, I saw Wright not playing the percentages, and getting torched on pick and roll plays. He will not come out of the key and does not feel comfortable playing against centres that can hit the jump shot, as they will draw him out of his comfort zone, the low blocks.I feel that he needs to be more intimidating on defense and make people be aware that he is around!!

On offense he can finish the play and can score when hot. He can step out and hit the jumper, but he has never been a big scorer in the league and should demand the ball more of Williams. But once again he can also disappear. I am not sure if Gasol and Wright can play together to be honest because Wright is more of a natural power forward. The rotation is going to be an important issue here.

TRYBANSKI

A big body who can hit the shot and finish the play. Can he crack the rotation with Wright, Gasol, Swift, Gooden, etc. But they wanted him and the Grizzlies have nothing to lose this season. So they need to look to play him as many minutes as possible. But he is going to be intimidated, which is natural and this can hurt his game.

Massenburg - A big body and tough nut. I am not sure if he will be part of the team, as they have a glut of bigger guys that need minutes. Maybe he can be as insurance and as a mentor to the younger guys. He has never been able to cement a permanent starting role on any team. Look, he is just a big body that can bang and can give some intimidation, for 5-10 minutes per game. He is a guy that can ensure the rookies do not get pushed around and cop verbal attacks from others. As long as the opposition are aware that he is around, that is all that is important.

POWER FORWARD

PAU GASOL

Who can forget his coming out party this year. Immediately cracks the starting rotatuion after 3 games and he is the teams star. The Grizzlies are already building around him, after he only has one year under his belt. This guy can finish and I watched alot of Grizzlies games, because I was intruiged by his play. He likes to dunk the ball hard and that facial on Garnett was huge and unbelievable. It shows me that he is not afraid of serving it up to more established players in the league. His play this year showed me that he wants to make an impression on the game anyway he can. When he gets the ball, something happens, which is a great sign. I hope that he can develop a more consistent outside shot which will make him unstoppable. Some of his low post moves really remind me of Tim Duncan. He can develop a three point shot, which will make him unguardable. I want him to be more of an inside outside threat. No-one is saying he needs to be like Dirk Nowitzki but the more tools you have, the less tools that the opposition can take away from you.

His defense is solid and no-one really expected him to be in the top 10 in blocks for the year. He has a very long and wiry frame that he uses to his advantage. I saw him block guards to big guys with dominance. However, this aside, he did get into foul trouble and he did get scored on at times. He is a defender that wants you to shoot jump shots over him so that he can use his reach and height to block it. This is fine, but sometimes you can be off your game and cannot get to blocks and this results in cheap buckets.But he is a great rebounder but at times against bigger guys they just used their strength to out position him and move him out of the blocks. Against more physical defenders, he can struggle as they will move him out of position with their strong bodies and into positions where he cannot be effective.

He needs to bulk up in the gym to be even more dominant. Their is no reason why he will not raise his scoring even more. But, as we saw at the end of last season, the defense, monitored him more closely and knew that he was going to get the ball. So he was doubled in the post and at times was forced to give the ball up. Often a three point jumper was fired up, because of this.

But, he is going to get some free throws because of the way he plays. Once again he likes to attack on offense which means more "and one" opportunities. If I would look to stop the Grizzlies, I would start with this guy. Play a bigger player on him, who can use his strength to manouver Gasol out of the play. Bang him in the post and make him know that you are around. Go at him on offense and try to get him out of the game. Look to score on him and just lay the ball hard at his body. This is one way to get him out of the play and the game. As you know getting Swift into the game instead of Gasol is a good idea, as the offense is forced to alter its plans and sets. If he is going to drive, make him earn it, as this is his go. Make him think twice about post scoring. Remember if you take this away from him, you can get him shooting long range jumpers, which is not YET his type of game that he likes.

STROMILE SWIFT

Has the tools to be a player but seems to lack the motivation and desire to use his athleticism to his advantage. He was a defensive menace in college, but this was because he was a 6"9 player. In the NBA, he is considered average in height as a power forward as now their are guys that are stronger than him and he struggles to have an impact on the game. Most of his points and numbers came in garbage time and his play is a concern. But it is too early to give up on him YET.

Look he is going to struggle to beat out Gooden, in my opinion as Gooden is a better all round player than him. Swift loves weak side rejections and is adequate in this department. But I can remember one game that he played, how lost he seemed. He literally was standing around on defense and I clearly saw Williams yelling at him because he missed a key defensive assignment. This guy has had two years in the NBA and needs to put it all togther now. Their is no reason why he cannot be a Jermaine O'Neal type of guy if he wants it bad enough. He has all the tools to be a player, athleticism, height and reach, but his time to prove himself is running out. He liked to play some back up centre last year and showed some signs of aggression. He is a good offensive rebounder and got most of his points through dunks and lobs. Once again, I want him to impose himself on the game more and get more aggressive as well. If he gets a chance to stuff it in the defenders grill he should do it. He needs to create aggression. He never had to in college becasue he could dominate easily, but this is big time basketball.

DREW GOODEN

He might be a small forward but I listed him here because this is where he played in college. He will get big minutes this year as the Grizzlies have nothing to lose and play their rookies like Gasol and Battier last year. He needs to develop early and show his game to the team. He is really a jack of all trades kind of player, who can do almost everything, but no-one knows if he can do it in the NBA. Will get minutes at the 3 and 4, at various parts of the game. He is a good solid rebounder and also above average defender. I kept a fairly close eye on him in college and loved his game. He can finish and shoot a decent jumper. But, he will struggle with the pace of the game as all rookies do. Do not expect big things early, as he will not start yet, but he will play bigger minutes during the course of the season. IMO the Grizzlies took the best player available in the draft and you cannot blame them for that. He has all the tools you want to build on, to be a great NBA player.

SMALL FORWARD

SHANE BATTIER

Had a great rookie season and copped all the toughest defensive assignments, as the team really has no beter man on man defender then him. He put up good solid numbers in all categories, yet people are saying that he has reached his peak and cannot get better. WRONG. He has not even started and his rookie season was a great beginning for him. He got some blocks, steals and hit some clutch shots last season. He can only get better with the confidence that he got last season. He defended the scorers of the league and did a decent job. He knows now what is required of him and what he needs to work on in guarding the best players.

He is a bigger body at 6"8, 230 and uses this to his advantage. But he was beaten at times by quicker guys with good ballhandling ability who seemed to get him, by playing a give and go play, where they quickly passed the ball, ran, got it back and scored. He is a solid perimeter defender and can lurk around the passing lanes for some cheap steals and start the fast break.

Good rebounder and positions his body well at all times. That is why he stayed at College for so long, as he has fundamentals. He does not need to have the ball to have an impact on a game of basketball. Like defense, court positioning and awareness are all aspects that he is good at. You cannot play a smaller guy on him as he is too strong and big, but you can get him with an athletic guy that moves around and makes him work.

SHOOTING GUARDS

MICHAEL DICKERSON

Can he make it back after his injury?? He has Battier and Person around waiting to take some minutes off him so he needs to go at training camp hard. He is a good shooter but once again can get hot and cold at times. Not that great a ballhandler and passer but he is not that bad. Gets alot of points of pick and rolls wher he can get free and shoot it. Needs to have the ball given to him on a platter to be effective. Not so good at creating his own shot but he is still only relatively young. He struggles on defense, because he has a fairly light frame. Guys like to isolate him one on one and go to work on him. Effective plays such as pick and rolls, where he has to work, are ploys of scoring on him. A post up orientated guard like a Bonzi Wells give him trouble as he gets into unfamiliar territory defending against guys bigger than him so close to the basket. 

He can score the three ball and also can finish which is a good characteristic on this team. Loves the mid range game and loves to use fakes on his defenders before hitting the jumper.

WESLEY PERSON

Came off his best season ever in the NBA. Was a compliment to Andre Miller and got alot of his points from Miller's drive and dish game. Shot at 50% from the field last year which is great for a two guard. He can hit it from anywhere on the court and I am a fan of his, ever since he came out of College. He is strong at 6'6, but he is not such a bad defender as he can use his height and strength as an advantage. Loves the pick and roll play, but he is similar to Michael Dickerson, they are both effectively the same player. Person is a better rebounder as well and can also give it off at times. The team has inside scoring in Gooden and Gasol, which will leave Person open for the long three. You cannot not guard this guy as when he is hot, it just always seems to drop for him. Flourished in Cleveland, initially when Kemp and Ilgauskas, were the inside presence getting all the attention, and Person could go one on one with his defender and score on him. He is a good guy to have come off the bench and light it up. On defense he is adequate but not great and is not that quick. So you can play a faster type guy on him and run him round to get free and shoot uncontested.Look to drive on him and wheel by to score.

GORDON GIRICEK

Might battle for minutes with Dickerson, Person and Battier but the team is high on him, a 6"6 shooting guard. Once again, they are pretty deep here and he can only help the team with his flexibility.

POINT GUARD

JASON WILLIAMS

I am not a fan of his. Sure he can do the flashy play, but he is not the type of guy I want with Gasol, Swift and Gooden around. These guys need a more controlled player on the court. How many times did that three pointer get hoisted when there was enough time on the clock to launch a better attack. There is nothing wrong with wanting to shoot as a point guard, but if you are going to shoot alot, make sure you can at least hit it consistently. This guy has not proved it yet. I know he had 8 assists per game which is great but he is just an average point guard. Great passer but poor defender. Got torched by guys like McInnis,Fisher etc guys who are not top class players, but who can score against poorer defenders. Maybe he can improve this part of his game. He can hit the open man but when he is shooting the offense breaks down and the team looks to lose its focus. Needs to reduce his shot attempts and feed the ball off more. Now he has more options, with Gasol, Gooden, Person and Dickerson. These guys are going to want the ball and he needs to play a more complete game. 

I was not happy with his attitude particularly when he told Gasol that he is not passing him the ball. He is 27 now, and it is time to show more leadership on the court than that.He is getting paid well, probably too much to have this kind of attitude. He is not even the most important part of the team, anyway. But he is flashy and crowds come to see him play. Once again, I would like to see more leadership from him and a cooler head in the clutch, or fourth quarter. He seems to panic a bit when the team is down on the scoreboard and takes it upon himself to do something about it. Hopefully other guys can step up and help him out here, as he did put up 8 assists on a team that struggled.But he can and will get better. I hope that he is not satisfied with what he has achieved so far in his career as he can do better and he will! But he has never shot better than 30% from the three and 40% from field goal, which is a huge concern!

BREVIN KNIGHT

Good guy coming off the bench, but not as a starter. One, is his lack of height at 5"9. I remember when he was at Cleveland, Mark Jackson used that old technique of backing him down in the post as much as he could to take advantage of his deficiency. It is a problem, there is no question about that. When he checks into the game, other teams should try and play a bigger makeshift point guard or bigger backcourt just to try and exploit him in this regard. He has small frame so when he is in the ball, look to dominate him and get as many points you can on him.

He can pass and is very quick. Likes to drive but has no three point shot and I am surprised that he has not developed this tool yet. Likes to push the ball hard up court and is a very good ballhandler and distributor. The offense seemed more controlled and cleaner when he was playing last year. A good guy to have on the team with his leadership and veteran status, even though he has been in the league for 5 years.he can get steals by being a ballhawk which leads to easy buckets on the fast break. It is just his lack of height that impacts him and that is why he will have his minutes reduced.

EARL WATSON

Played at the Sonics last year and will take whatever minutes are left.


Depending on any other trades, signings, etc I will update this thread. The team looks to have a lot of depth at most positions, which is always a good sign. The Grizzlies can only get better and have not even scratched the surface yet!! The roster have one power forward and one point guard too many, so maybe a trade is on the cards for a veteran guy who can play some minutes.

Please Reply and Comment!!


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## Shadows

Wow KingsofKings another great post. I turned this post into a sticky. I'll have it up for about the next week or so.



> I was not happy with his attitude particularly when he told Gasol that he is not passing him the ball


Is that tru? Wow I must have missed that if he did say that, IMO this guy definetly should go. I have never been a fan of JWILL as most of you have noticed. 

I agree 100% with this quote



> he is not the type of guy I want with Gasol, Swift and Gooden around


That is so true. Let's face it Gasol and Swift are not run and gun players. These 2 guys need to make their moves in the block on a post up play. I hear Gooden can run the floor nicely so I'm not sure on that, I'll comment on it when the season starts.

As far ad Dickerson I allways felt since he was in Vancouver that he held his own on D. He might be a little slow moving horizontaly but he makes that up with his effort and heart.




> Not so good at creating his own shot but he is still only relatively young.


I thought that Mike did a great job comming into the league creating his own shot that's the only part I dissagree with.


Great Post


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## TheRifleman

Love this post! 

I agree with almost all you wrote and I can't add a thing to this unbiased and carefully phrased analysis. One can see you also are a "fan" of this greatest of all games!


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## bdachakeya

I love your post, too. You hit it on the head with alot of the players, especially Pau and Shane. The incident involving JWill and Gasol happened at the beginning of the season when they both hadn't gotten used to each others game yet, causing that comment to be made out of frustration. But once JWill became injured and had to sit down and evaluate what Pau was doing on the court, and where he was most comfortable recieving the ball, things started to work out better for both players out on the court together after JWill came back from the injury. There was even a time during the season when Pau and JWill expressed their dislikes to the media about each other's game, but both later changed their sentiments about each other later in the season after adjusting to each other on the floor. If you can remember, JWill became more under control as the pg for the team because he didn't do as many boneheads he was capable of doing, and hopefully things will stay the same when the season starts again. I still think with a little more guidance and input from JWest on how to become a more effective leader on the court, JWill will convert alot of his nay-sayers into believers this year.


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## w-h-i-t-e-b-o-y

I like all the posts except our own MODERATOR(shadows). Come on you gotta give JWill a chance. As already stated JWill and Pau had many disagreements early in the season and actually didnt like each other. But as the season progressed they grew upon each other and realized each others talents. Pau knows what JWill is all about and vice versa for JWill. And as far as the comment about not having JWill lead Gasol, Gooden, and Battier who do think is gonna lead 1 rookie and 2 2nd year players. I mean come on know these guys aint shaq and kobe. Dont get me wrong they are good but can still get better and to say that he cant lead them is like a slap in the face. Tell that to the kings when in his rookie season as a starter took Sac to the playoffs. And about JWill's D he avg just under 2stls a game. He aint the best on the ball defender but neither are half the other PG's in the L. I like our team and hope to see it the same for the next 2 years to see players gel and feed off others. We are very young and talented and I think the 8 seed is in sight(thats being realistic). I like the info given on Mike D and believe that he will come back stronger and be one of the leaders on this team.
Jerry West is a genius and we'll see exactly what he put together very soon!!!


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## Wiggum

Jason Williams is one of the most frustrating players in the NBA. He really is a great, great passer; I'll give him that. He DID average 8.0 APG, which is good considering all the shots he took. But, UGGGHHH!!! Why does he jack up so many shots!? Williams placed 7th in the NBA in 3-point attempts this year. 7TH!!! As in, there were only 6 more people in the entire league that took more 3-pointers than him! And this is coming from a guy who averaged a .295 3P%...

Let's look at the people led the league in 3 point attempts:

Antoine Walker: 645 (.344)
Ray Allen: 528 (.434)
Paul Pierce: 520 (.404)
Baron Davis: 478 (.356)
Jason Terry: 444 (.387)
Reggie Miller: 443 (.406)
Jason Williams: 430 (.295)
Latrell Sprewell: 403 (.360)
Darrell Armstrong: 398 (.349)
Pat Garrity: 396 (.427)

Williams placed the lowest in 3P% out of all 10 of the leaders in 3PA.

Williams took 430 3-point shots this season and played in 65 games. That equates out to 6.6 3 point attempts per game. Why would a guy that shoots .295 take that many shots? Compile that with Williams' total .382 FG%...if Williams would stop taking so many shots, he could have easily been in the top 5 in APG, maybe even leading it.


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## w-h-i-t-e-b-o-y

*3 Ball*

Ok so he shoots too many 3's and has a bad percentage. Now look at Kobe he shot 25% from behind the arc....thats horrible!!!!
Ok so if he learns better shot selection(he takes about 1 or 2 25-30footers a game) then he would make about 35% of his 3's.


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## Shadows

> Come on you gotta give JWill a chance


Whiteboy I think JWill has been in the NBA long enough he does not need a chance he needs to get better plain and simple. I have been giving him a chance these last 2 season. And by looking at last season he is not getting better IMO.

I seriously think he would be better comming off the bench then starting. If they could get a stable veteran PG to start over him trust me I would be more then happy. To be honest with you I would rather have Brevin Knight playing starter. Juts gives you an idea of how much I dislike his game.

Yes he did bring Sacramento to the playoffs but that team was alot better then that and it showed once JWill left and Bibby took over. 

There is no question the Jayson has a ton of potential. I would hate to see him traded only because how good he could be one day. But until he learns to control himself on the court this team will continue to wait for him to do anything significant. He is IMO the key to this team if he could do what you said. Either make more jump shoots at higher shooting % or just not take as many shots the problem will get better.


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## w-h-i-t-e-b-o-y

I agree with that to a cetain extent the success that the kings have had lately dont exactly start with Bibby. I really get annoyed when everyone says where Bibby took the Kings, he took them no where. What did he do that was sooooo good during the season. Ok so he stepped up during the playoffs when their second best player and an allstar Peja was hurt. Thats what someone one the team is suppose to do. How come no body mentions Peja or Hedo they both had monster years and it somehow always comes back to Bibby. I think almost any starting PG in the L could have taken that team just about as far and dont get me started on 7yrs 80mil thats alot for a guy who had one good postseason and a couple decent seasons in Vancouver. Think about it his and JWills numbers are pretty close when they played for the Grizz and same goes for when jwill played with the Kings......whew.


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## EJlover

Well, the Earl Watson analysis is lacking just a little, so I'll add my 43 cents (well, it's definitely more than 2 cents:grinning: ).

Earl didn't get much playing time in Seattle last year, and when he was on the floor he didn't have the ball in his hands much. Either Gary Payton or Brent Barry was on the floor with him at all times, unless it was garbage time. He was an afterthought offensively, generally coming up with his points on the break. He had a couple of games where he was impressive offensively, with his 14 point performance against the Lakers in his first game back in LA since he graduated from UCLA, and in a game against Golden State where he had 13 points. In that Golden State game, Earl had one play in that game that landed him in the NBA Inside Stuff's plays of the week, as he stole the ball, dribbled around defenders, spun around other defenders, and scored on a reverse lay up while being fouled and sent to the floor. He shot threes at a 36% clip and twos at 48%. He was never a very good free throw shooter at UCLA and that translated to the pro level as well, though from what I saw of the two summer league games he played in LA last month he had a sweet stroke going on the 12 of 15 he made from the line. He's a surprisingly strong leaper for his height, though most of you won't believe it until you see it, and he can throw down alley-oop passes with the best of them. He will take whatever role the coaches have for him offensively. If they want him to look to score then he will, but if they want him to get his teammates into the offense and get certain guys the ball at certain times he will do that too. He's not about playing for his ego, he's about getting wins and doing whatever it takes to get the "W".

Defense and leadership are the keys with Earl Watson. "He's got his hands on the ball more on the defensive end than he does on the offensive end," is one of my favorite quotes from Sonics broadcaster Kevin Callabro. Earl makes himself a pest, both against his man and unsuspecting big men who don't see him coming. Opposing guards don't seem to want to bring the ball up court when he's guarding them, and it's not rare to see someone other than the point guard dribble the ball into the front court when Earl's in the game. He holds the record for most steals in a career at UCLA, and he brought his pickpocketing ability to the pro-level, staying in the top four in steals per 48 minutes and steals per turnover in the NBA last season. If they kept stats for deflections he'd be in the tops of the league in that area too. His defensive contributions aren't only measured in the steals he puts up though, as when he enters games the defensive intensity of the entire team increases. At UCLA he wouldn't let his teammates slack off or he'd call them soft and stay on them until they started playing with heart. In Seattle the most common comment was that as soon as he entered the game you could see the defensive effort increase team wide.

Some other key things to Earl's game that almost assuredly endeared him to Jerry West when he watched Earl during his career at UCLA are his leadership, his hustle, his toughness, and his selflessness. Earl is a tremendous leader, and with a young team he will be asked to show his leadership skills more than he could in Seattle with the, uhm, strong personalities on that team. You will be hard pressed to find a time when Earl is not hustling when he's in the games. He's not afraid to get after it, diving for loose balls, fighting for rebounds amongst bigger players, getting floor burns, getting stitches. He's had so many stitches he can probably do them himself by now. He probably got hurt in half of the games that he played in at UCLA, but no matter how severe, he would usually get back in the game. I can only think of two instances when he didn't at least try to play again, and he still managed to become the first player to start every game in a four year career at UCLA. He only missed two practices in those four years. His willingness to do all of the little things that other players don't want to do is something that usually makes him a fan favorite right away. It's always good to have a guy on the team who doesn't need to put up a certain number of shots to feel good, or who isn't concerned with the stats he puts in the box score. If he makes the pass that gets the assist, or the pass that leads to the assist, it's all the same to him, as long as the ball goes in the basket.


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## Dakota

To all you people saying that J-Will shoots to much, have you ever played basketball.I mean who else is gonna score on the Griz besides Gasol,Battier, and Wright. Hek half the team was injured last year, so no one should be complaining about the shot situation. The only way to put some points on the board is to shoot. It doesn't matter how many shots he puts up, because the game is 48 minutes long. Tell me now that 7 threes a game is too much. What the hek are you thinking, at least J-Will was willing to put up the shots when no one else was. J-Will has a very good technique shooting the ball and if he was on balance more often than not, than he would without a doubt be shooting over 50%.What other three point threats did the griz have last year. HAHAHAHA besides the point man himself I can't really think of any. Nooo Shane Battier cannot shoot the three consistently. Some of you gotta realize this team has more than just Gasol and Battier

im out


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## kingofkings

*Stromile Swift...*

Damn 270 views and 10 replies. C'mon!! Whoever reads this thread drop a line and give us some comments, otherwise what is the point of this board...

Anyway what is the hype compared with Darius Miles and Stromile Swift. People have already written Swift off, while Miles is considered the next superstar? Check out their Stats:

2001/2002 Season

Date of Birth:

Swift - 11/21/1979
Miles - 10/9/1981

Height

Swift - 6"9
Miles - 6"9

Weight

Swift - 225
Miles - 210

Minutes per Game

Swift - 26.5
Miles - 27.2

Points Per Game

Swift - 11.8
Miles - 9.5

Rebounds Per Game

Swift - 6.3
Miles - 5.5

Blocks Per Game

Swift - 1.66
Miles - 1.26

Field Goal Percentage

Swift - 48%
Miles - 48%

So you can see that there are a great similarity between the players progress this past season, if not in Swift's favour. So why is Miles getting all the hype, yet is not outnumbering Swift??

They are effectively at the same level currently, although Swift has brief college experience.

But what I am trying to say, is that if everyone is enamoured with Miles production and potential, why are they ignoring Swift., as he has done just as much as him. They both have equal athleticism and I believe that Swift needs more respect.

It takes rookies more time to develop in the game and Swift needs more time, what is wrong with that?? I would hate if he gets traded, gets big time minutes and becomes a force to reckon with on defense, with his height, athleticism and shotblocking. He can also be a fan favourite just like Miles, with his high flying dunks and alley-oop plays, as well as his rejections!

So I have shown you, that there is not much between Miles and Swift. All that I can assume is that Miles is ahead on potential at the moment. But does potential mean anything anyomore?? I mean potential is a two edge sword, you either are going to make it, or you are going to be a bust and neither player at the moment has answered this question, YET.

So in fact, has Swift done that bad in his two years in the NBA?? Of course he needs more polish and experience, but he can only improve on this with time. Hopefully he can get enough minutes with Gasol, Wright, Gooden, etc and prove just how far that he can go in the NBA and develop and show his game to the world.

So I say to you, what has Miles done, that Swift has not?? They talk about Miles being a good defender in the future, but yet Swift has more blocks. Swift has just as many tools as Miles to be a good defender, and more weight as well. Granted, Swift has been lost at times, on defense,but he can only improve with better coaching. I know that numbers do not tell the true story of a players capabilities, but remember both players have not really cemented themselves yet and numbers are just a guide to go by at the moment.

The bottom line is that Swift needs more time to develop his game. Hopefully with good, solid coaching he can get this and become a true NBA caliber player. He has the tools that you cannot teach, height, length and athleticism, which is a start. Remember, if you want to call Swift a bust, I will just show you the comparison in stats between Swift and Miles and flag it in your face!!


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## Shadows

Good points KingsofKings.

Your right about the whole Miles/Swift. Infact once you brought up those stats Swift definetly is the better player based on stats.

The reason Miles is getting so much more hype if you ask me is for the sole reason he came from high school. I mean look at this year the only name you hear when talking ameteur basketball is Lebron James. How underated will players like

-Carmelo Anthony
-Chris Duhon
-James White

To be honest with you I also feel Miles has more potential to be the better player when this is all said and done. When you think of High School players you think

-Kobe Bryant
-Tracy Mcgrady
-Kevin Garnet

When you think of busts you think

-Leon Smith
-Kwame Brown (So far)

I have heard alot more hype comming from those names then I have most if not all College players comming in to the NBA.

With that said I would really hate to see Swift go. If he develops and becomes the player he shows glimpses of each game the Grizz will have the best frount court in the league in a couple years. In

Swift
Gasol
Gooden


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## Dakota

Shadow's i think your a hypocrit. You talk bad about all these Griz players and then once someone puts some good facts down, you switch your ideas. That is lame, and the Kwame Brown bust thing your talking about, how bout you watch him play for a couple of years before saying something that should not be even written down at this point. 



word out


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## Shadows

I never put down Swift. The choices I dont agree they made this season are.

1) Taking Drew Gooden over Butler-Even tho he slipped to 10 I still think he is the better fit for this team. (But since we have had Drew I am getting to like him. Still rather have Butler)

2) Not trading JWILL. I dont care if we get 2nd rounders I think he is a *Cancer for Any team*. Untill he proves me he can be a reliable starter for 1 season I'll change my mind.


As far as Kwame you have to read these things and understand them.

Bust

Kwame Brown (So far)

Did you notice the (So far). If you can prove to me that Kwame is not a bust (So Far) I'll change my name to hypocrit.


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## Dakota

Yeah shadows, so how bout we call every other rookies that didn't put up good numbers last year busts. I was saying0 that you cannot write that Kwame is a bust down even if you said "as of yet" , on a rookie that was the friggin #1 overall pick. And shadows i'll make sure to call you again on the hypocrit thing once you express your feelings again. 

Williams is not a cancer to the team.


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## Shadows

Sounds good.

You dont understand one thing.

Every #1 pick is expected to be good in there first year. I dont care how young, how mature or how in-experianced if your a number #1 your more then just a future project. You come in to make your team better right off the bat and get better and better every year.

If a #1 pick is playing at the end of the bench for half a season the season was a *BUST*. 

*Kwame Brown is BUST so far* no question. I have no idea why you are even arguing this. If Yao Ming plays like Kwame did last season he will be a major bust. If Lebron James plays like Kwame did he will be a bust in his first year ext.

Will Kwame get better?

Of course but he did not develop into the player as quickly as the Wiz expected him to. which qualifes him for a *Bust* 

And dont say 

"Oh but he was in high school these things take time'

Tyson Chandler and Eddy Curry showed me alot more potential then Kwame this first season and trust me I saw alot of him.


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## w-h-i-t-e-b-o-y

JWill a cancer thats funny. Tell that to all the Sac fans and their management they drafted him #6 and him and CWebb automatically made them a playoff contender and even after the Bibby trade they still tied a franchise high in wins. JWest says he has some of the best talent in the league and your calling him cancer. Wait are you saying JWest is wrong?!


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## Shadows

That is my opinion

I allways hated JWILL since he came into the league. Maybe I'm just old school and I dont like his arrogance or the famboiant style he has. The term Cancer for this team maybe a little harsh but I really can not see him running this team.

Dont get me wrong he is a good player and could be an all-star with his potential but he irritates me to death with his costly turnovers, Flash Passes and terrible shot selection. 

It boggles my mind how a guy with so much potential just cant control himself to know 

-Which shot is good which is not
-Which pass to make which one not to
- When to run the floor when not to

And so on and so fourth.

There is nothing anyone can say to make me see him in a diffrent way I want to see an improvement on the court.


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## kingofkings

*Why does this team not go after....*

Eddie Jones. This guy can play. He is one of the best defensive players in the league. He is 6"7, long and spindly and averages more than 2 steals and 1 block per game and that is great for a shooting guard. He can score, from inside, or outside and is a good ballhandler and creator. He is also a great finisher on the break as well and very exciting.

With him on this team, he can start at the two and be in charge on the court of the Grizzlies defensive sets, which really at the moment is not good enough. The Grizzlies need one more defensive presence in the backcourt, along with Shane Battier, to get a hold of and contain hot hands.

The knock on Jones over the years is that he can never lead a team, like the Lakers, Hornets and Heat. But, he does not need to, on the Grizzlies. They have scorers with Gasol, Battier, Williams, etc. He can help guys out in practice, as he has a very good work ethic and the younger players can watch how he goes about it and learn from him.

Why would Miami want to do a deal?? Well, he is eating out part of their salary cap, and they also have no depth in the roster. They have no real guys that can come into the game and spell their starters and still be effective.

So how to get him:

Look, the Grizzlies have excess capacity in their big man department:

Wright, Gasol, Gooden, Massenburg, Trybanski, Swift

Point Guards - Williams, Knight, Watson

Obviously, if the Grizzlies can get Jones, their is no real need for Dickerson or Person,as Jones is going to get close to 40 minutes per game, but he can switch betweeen the 2 or the three.

I suggest a trade of Wright, Dickerson and Knight for Jones. Why Grizzlies do it, it reduces the log jam at the big man spot and the point guard spot. Remember that Williams and Watson will handle the majority of minutes, but Jones can also handle the ball and play point at times, allowing another shooter on the floor, which can help. It also frees more time up for Swift, Gooden and Trybanski to develop their games. It also allows Person to come off the bench, as we probably would have done behind Dickerson.Person alone is a more consistent shooter and better 3 point shooter than Dickerson alone.

Would the Heat do it?? Well, they have insurance in case Zo or Grant gets injured and they get a guy that can help and bang off the bench, in Wright. They also get a backup point guard in Knight, who is a better player than Anthony Carter, and they get a starting two guard in Dickerson. So their depth has increased by a great margin through this trade.

Do the Grizzlies give up to much?? Not really, I mean Jones is a better player than Dickerson. he is a better defensive player, which is the key to what this team really needs at this point in time. He is more experienced and is playoff tested. He has played in more clutch games and knows how to deal with pressure situations, which is not what Grizzlies players have had at the moment, as they lack experience.They signed Watson, to a multi year contract, so instead of floundering behind Williams and Knight, he can play a bit and justify his contract.

The only other issue here, is the lack of centre. Can Trybanski start, or should they go with Massenburg, until he develops, or maybe start Swift at the centre position?? But, once again, the excess capacity has been removed and the Grizzlies get a top notch player in return. Eddie Jones, will give the Grizzlies the defensive stopper in the backcourt, who can go up against the Kobe, Finley,Mobley, Wally Z, etc 4 times a year. Also, he still will give them close to 20 points per game, 5 rebounds, 3 assists and 2 steals, which is a great production from a wing player.

Centre - Trybanski - Massenburg
Power Forward - Gasol, Swift
Small Forward - Battier, Gooden
Shooting Guards - Jones, Person
Point Guards - Williams, Watson

You can see that they have not really lost anything depth wise. They are still 2 deep at every position on the floor. Remember Gasol, Swift, etc can fill in at centre from time to time as well.
Versatility, Battier and Jones are interchangeable at the 2 or three from time to time. So this is an improvement to the roster!!


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## w-h-i-t-e-b-o-y

That trade was actually discussed early in the summer but somehow it just dissipated. I would love to have EJ on the team....BUT the only problem is MikeD is a decent defensive player and so is Lorenzen. Although both were hurt last year I cant see how not having them in the lineup would burt us this year especially if we add EJ. Brevin is a decent backup but so is Earl and that would give him time to flourish in an actuall backup spot where he'll get about 15 min a game. But if MikeD is healthy and so is Lorenzen then maybe we whould keep them. MikeD makes approx 5 mil along with Lorenzen and Brevin. EJ makes about 8 I think so that would also clear a little cap room also. In turn that would also give Trybanski a chance to get more minutes. Dont forget we also have Archibald on the bench who is gonna get some minutes off the bench so even if we made the trade we would still be 3 deep at center(trybanski,TMass,Arch).
I'd do it(JWest likes EJ and only traded him becuase he was gonna get Kobe) Another BIG plus is EJ's work ethic we are young and if eveyone sees his ethic and he is at allstar status then maybe the team as a whole would work a little harder. I would love a backcourt of a matured JWill and Mr. Nice guy Eddie Jones. Frontcourt we have The senior Shane, the spaniard Pau and the Polish one Cezary. Damn that looks nice now and in a couple years. All are young and all will be real good in a year or 2(EJ is already real good).


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## Potatoe

> Originally posted by <b>C-MO 22 LD</b>!
> Yeah shadows, so how bout we call every other rookies that didn't put up good numbers last year busts. I was saying0 that you cannot write that Kwame is a bust down even if you said "as of yet" , on a rookie that was the friggin #1 overall pick. And shadows i'll make sure to call you again on the hypocrit thing once you express your feelings again.
> 
> Williams is not a cancer to the team.




C-MO,

Please refrain from using personal attacks in this forum. I believe calling someone a hypocrite is just as bad as calling them any other name. Attack the opinion not the poster!

Thanks


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## Dakota

yeah word on the hypocrit thing potatoe.....that's my fault , but it just bugs me that someone calls Kwame a bust. Kwame is only 19 and Shadows expects him to put up 20 and 10 his first year. Hey bud I don't think the Wiz would have picked him #1 overall if they did not expect him to put up big numbers. Just look at Olowakandi, jeepers no one thought he would be the second best center in the league at this point. But these things take time and I think they should be givin time. 


word out


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## Shadows

Kwame was a bust in his first year. Once again there is nothing anyone can say that will convinve me not to believe that. As I said he will get better with time but he did not progress as expected.

Back to the EJ topic. He would fit into this team but who would we have to give up to get him?

Great defender and clutch in the end of games. I would think at least Dickerson and Swift would have to go to get him. Is that too much?


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## bdachakeya

kingofkings, I've been making the same argument about Swift for the longest. I've been saying for a period of time now, that if the Grizzlies decided to get rid of him at this point it will be one of the biggest, prematurely, mistakes they could have ever made. I think for a guy who really just starting getting the minutes last season, did a heck of a job for a young player who's still learning the game. I think the problem with a lot people is that they are so quick to follow others opinions just because that person is a so-called master-mind. I'm not questioning West's ability to evaluate talent, but sometimes the guy can be wrong about some of his evauations. I know Swift seemed loss alot of times last season, but at the same time, he still displayed the same amount of talent, if not more, as any other big forward in the league after their first season. Man, I can see it the years to come if the Grizzlies were to trade Swift anytime soon, they'll be asking themselves, "What were we thinking?". I think it'll come back to haunt them the same way as when the Blazers, Raptors, and Suns let young talent get away as in Oneal, McGrady, and Kidd; they have turned out to major forces on their team and in this league. So I'll say, stick with Swift at least another season, which will actually be like his 2nd because of the lack of playing time in his 1st, then make the wise decision of whether or not he's the type of player we're looking for after given enough time.


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## kingofkings

*Look...*

The Grizzlies have got nothing to lose this year. Face it, they will probably not even come close to making the playoffs this year. So look to develop guys like Swift, Gasol, Gooden and even Williams to an extent even more. They are going to lose their lottery pick next year to the Pistons, if it is not #1, so get as much as you can out of your young guns and see if they will sink or swim.

Like I said, people are so quick to give up on guys like Swift, but he has tools that you cannot teach and coach. These tools are height, reach, length and athleticism. These are basic tools you need to start to learn fundamentals of being a solid post player, or an effective defensive presence, which all NBA teams crave.

So what is the point of trading him anyway, for a guy that is not as young as him, or does not have the upside that Swift has got. The Grizzlies have the time on their hands to develop him even more. Face it, Swift has struggled, but his numbers compare favourably, if not even better than Miles, as I have showed above. Miles gets traded for one of the best young point guards in the league, while Swift is ignored.

My advice to the Grizzlies, is to stay with the investment they put in Swift, when they took him with the 2nd pick in the 2000 draft. This will be the year, that he can answer all the questions about him. Maybe, the competition, for playing time will affect him in a positive way. Hopefully, he will be more aggressive in training camp and look to even challenge for a starting spot somewhere??

I just do not want him to go back and just give in and lose the minutes to Gooden, etc. He needs to be passionate, that he belongs in the NBA and fight for everything. He needs to think that his career is on the line and that he is the only one that can do something about it.

He has shown some flashes, but he has not put it all together yet. People have written him off and hopefully, this will light a fire in his belly. The Grizzlies have nothing to lose, but to play and develop the younger players. Once again, hype up Miles all you want, but Swift is not that far behind!!


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## John Boy

I agree with you totally. It seems that everybody jumped on Swift as being a loser this past year.

Everybody wants an all star on day one. Anything less is failure.

Swift actually got 12 points a game this past year as a 22 year old coming off the bench and getting limited minutes and for that, he was classed a failure.

Just look at Darius Miles. Everyone thinks he is a winner, a can't lose future all star.
Looking at his stats this past year, he only got 7.7 points per game.

To me, the biggest mistake the Grizzlies could make would be to trade Stromile away. He will come back to haunt them if he is traded,....... just like Mike Bibby.


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## kingofkings

*You Know What...*

I was having a think today and you know who just might be available?? Gary Payton. He is currently in negotiations with the Sonics that seem to be going downhill. Why he would be a good fit on the Grizzlies:

1) Playoff Experience - Has been to the Finals, has performed in the clutch and has led his team to big things.

2) 20 points per game scoring, best defensive point guard in the league. Can get his shot off over anybody. Is 6'4 and has about 3-4 years of quality game left in him. Never misses games through injury.

3)He would come to the Grizzlies for a change in scenery. He would want the challenge of building a franchise up and making them a contender. I believe that he is getting stale in Seattle and might want a change of scenery and a newer fresher start with younger enthusiastic players.

4) He is steadier than Jason Williams and is a better overall player in every facet of the game, no question. He has more experience and can get the better out of Gasol, Swift, Gooden, Battier, etc. He can hit clutch shots. he needs to be defended, which means double teams, which means more easy shots for Gasol, Battier, Swift, Gooden, Wright etc.

5) He likes to post up as a point guard. He likes to be active and is a true leader. He wants to take the players on his back and get them to follow his example. He will get other players to play defense in practise, by watching how he goes about his work.

6) He can lock up the point guards of the West. C'mon Jason Williams, guarding Nash, Brandon, Bibby, Francis, Miller,Marbury, etc 4 times a year, no way. Payton can lock up any guy and stop a hot hand. He can guard any point guard or two guard in the league and be effective, with his long arms and awareness.

7) Guys will respect him, a perennial All-Star every year and they will walk alot taller, knowing that they have Gary Payton around, playing big minutes and knowing that he will have a cool head in the clutch 4th quarters, taking the big shots, when needed. He is also a 45% field goal shooter.

So who to give up to get him. Look, he is available, no player is untradeable, given the right offer.So, I would look to give up Williams, Dickerson and maybe a future #1 pick. Look, the Grizzlies have enough younger guys on their team, with Gasol, Battier, Gooden, Swift and Dickerson. Now they need veteran leadership and guys that have performed in the clutch and in big games - playoff games. They do not need more younger players, they have their nucleas now. More younger players just sets back the learning process and the overall improvement of the Grizzlies backwards.

The Sonics will get a replacement point guard in Williams, who is by no means the worst point guard in the league. Battier can start at the two, replacing Dickerson, who can come off the bench at the Sonics and look to get hot. Gary Payton, immediatley makes the Grizzlies a contender. Imagine, Payton, Gasol, Battier and Wright. That is a great solid core of guys who can compete with anyone.

I know that I have said Eddie Jones, but reading reports recently, i think that the Sonics and Gary Payton have had enough of each other and the time to part ways has come about.

The Grizzlies will have two defensive stoppers in Payton and Battier taking the two most dangerous backcourt players of the opposition. That is great in itself,as backcourt scoring has killed the Grizzlies in recent years. They also lose nothing offensively, as Payton is a 20 point scorer and 9 assist player every night. They have a guy to stop the Francis, Marbury, Bibby, Nash, Brandon, Miller etc 4 times per year.

He has a killer instinct to be able to put the finishing touches on a team. The Grizzlies cannot do any wrong going after Payton. He can only help the team!!


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## Dakota

The only problem with Gary Payton if there even is a problem , is that he is getting a little old.Can someone tell me how old he is, because im not to sure. No doubt about it though that he can still play all star caliberball. Williams has not even hit his prime yet and I think that is why people are getting frustrated. Williams should be givin at least two more years. In Sacramento he went three straight years into the playoffs, so the kid knows how to win. He just has to be a little more of a class act and a leader.

Next year in the draft the Grizzlies do lose there pick if not #1, but they also get a pick from the Rockets so all is not lost.



word out


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## EJlover

Since I followed the Sonics last year (because of Earl), and am still paying attention to them this off-season, I must say I disagree with some of the comments about Gp's effectiveness. Even from the most die-hard Sonics fans, people don't believe that GP is nearly the defender he used to be. He certainly wasn't able to contain Parker in the playoffs. He can get away with more defensively since he's a star, but he's losing a bit of the edge he once had. He's still very good, but not the top defensive point guard in the league.

As far as leadership goes, he was on his best behavior last year. He was more of a leader and mentor for the younger guys, and didn't have his typical tirades in the locker room from years past. But if people get upset with JWill trying too hard or forcing things because he doesn't feel like there's enough support around him, that's not going to improve with Payton. The proverbial "an extension of the coaching staff" point guard he is not. He tends to do his own thing, regardless of what the coaches are calling. I've seen things and heard comments about the rest of the team not knowing what to do because they didn't know what Gary was going to do.

GP is a great scorer and assist man. He's flat out one of the best point guards to ever play the game. But, he's not looking to play on a new rebuilding team. Why should he be? He's not a role player who is willing to come in and help a team get better for the future. He's a player who wants to win now. There's no reason for him to want to go play for Memphis.

Also, the Sonics have no need for Dickerson. They've got Desmond Mason and Brent Barry, why would they need another 2?


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## Shadows

I dont understand why everyone seems to be wanting to make changes. Yes GP is a great player but I would not give up any of our young talent to get him for the brief period of time he's worth anything.

No one is expecting us to make the playoffs and let's face it the chances are slim to none. I really dont mind waiting 2 or 3 years for this team to gel with it's young talent before we start making heavy noise in the west.

Looking back from when the season ended I am very happy with the direction of the team. Nothing major went down but we did add very valuable role players that will make us a deep team no question.


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## kingofkings

*Starting Lineup??*

What should the starting lineup be this season??
My opinions generally about starting lineups in the west, is to go as big and athletic as you can, but without losing anything offensively or defensively.

I hear that Shane Battier might become a sixth man, but this is crazy, firstly because he just came off a great year, where he played 40 minutes per game and secondly, training camp has not even started, so how can he be relegated to the bench, already!!

Assuming no trades before the start of the season, this is how I would like to go:

Centre - Lorenzen Wright

Power Forward - Pau Gasol

Small Forward - Shane Battier

Shooting guard - Michael Dickerson

Point Guard - Jason Williams

Centre - Wright is the teams best option at Centre at the moment. Had some huge games before getting injured. Has some weaknesses, see my earlier analysis, but the only real option, at this stage. Is 6"11 and has experience.

Power Forward - Gasol, best player on the team. 7"1, with great post skills, shotblocking and rebounding. Needs to bulk up a bit more, to reduce bigger and stronger players beating up on him.

Small Forward - Shane Battier - Teams best defender. 6"8, 230 pounds, solid ballhandler. Can shoot, shot 37% from downtown and can guard most backcourt players. Came off season playing 40 minutes per game and is too good to come off the bench. Is already a leader and has good court awareness.

Shooting Guard - Michael Dickerson - Has he recovered yet from his injury?? Usually, it takes a while to get back into the swing of the NBA while coming off a long term injury. Is quick and athletic and now has Person on his tail, as competition for the starting position. Has youth on his side, but struggled a bit last season with his shot. Might get more open looks early in the game, with Gasol, getting the attention. Must come to training camp hard and look to impress.

Point Guard - Jason Williams, teams best option at point guard, with the most talent. No question, he will start.

OTHER OPTIONS

What if the Grizzles want to go big and athletic, in order to compete in the West. Assuming that both Gooden and Swift have huge training camps, the team can look to go even bigger with:

Centre - Wright 6"11
Power Forward - Gasol 7"1
Small Forward - Gooden 6"10
Shooting Guard - Battier or Dickerson
Point Guard - Williams

OR

Centre - Wright 6"11
Power Forward - Swift 6"9
Small Forward - Gasol 7"1
Shooting Guard - Battier or Dickerson
Point Guard - Williams

See how the team has options to go bigger. I know what you are going to say that Gasol or Gooden do not have the ballhandling ability to play the 3 spot. Actually, the ball will be in Williams hands the most and Battier has good solid ball handling ability. Playing the 3 spot, is all about creativity and movement, not necessarily ballhandling. With Gasol or Gooden at the three, they can have a huge advantage here, in the height and strength department. Fistly, it allows the team to have one more rebounder on the floor, in case Wright is struggling with his rebounding. Secondly, it allows one more inside scorer, to compliment, Williams, Dickerson and Battier. Most teams cannot cover three 6"10 and over guys in the frontcourt and that is a fact. Maybe they can, but they do not have three 6"10 and over guys that are adequate defenders.

The team needs to experiment and has nothing to lose this year. They need to go with the best lineup they can to compete and cause matchup problems. Going big is always a good solid option on this roster, given the glut of big man talent. Hopefully, training camp will be fierce and competitive this season and guys playing for their lives!!


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## Dakota

I don't really think that playoffs are out of the question in Memphis land. I mean all the talent is in the Pacific division, which is about 5 teams or so. That leaves room for the Griz to mark up that 7 or 8 spot out of the Midwest. They can certainaly challenge anyone in this division. Its only a matter of winning the games.



word out


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## w-h-i-t-e-b-o-y

*Nice posts guys!*

Thank You finally someone else that thinks the Grizz have a shot!! 1-7 are almost locked with LA,Sac,Dall,SA,Minn,LAC,Port, and the 8 seed is wide open! Barring any major injuries we have a shot at that 8 seed. We will battle Houst,Utah,Phx, and maybe someone else. But we actually have a shot! And I hope Houston does crappy again ao we can have another good pick! I like the last 2 posts both are exactly right!!!


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## bdachakeya

kingofkings, Coach Lowe has already made it public that we will see Gasol, Gooden, and Battier on the court together, during some games of the season. But, I think his idea of a big unit when all 3 are on the floor together is with Gasol playing the center spot. I'm eagered to see a line-up with those 3 on the floor because I think they can be dominating against some teams. And I'm also one of the few who think this team can come out and suprise alot people by making the playoffs this season because of alot of games they let slip away last season, even with all of the injuries they suffered.


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## kingofkings

*Honestly...*

This is probably the best thread that I have ever read, not because I started it, but it contains all the necessary ingredients of good posting. Analysis, debates, constructive arguments, statistics veryfying points and future advancement of the team.

I was just thinking that the Grizzlies actually have a well rounded roster.

Rebounders - Wright, Gasol, Swift, Gooden

Shotblockers - Gasol, Swift

Shooters - Dickerson, Person, Battier (37% from downtown)

But as I said before, the team is lacking top class man on man defenders. The teams best defender is Shane Battier at the moment. When I say defender, I mean a guy that can take the other teams best backcourt player and play him man on man, without sacrificing his own offense.

I keep hearing all this garbage talk about Battier being the sixth man. I know, that training camp has not even started and places for the team not decided, but IF he is the 6th man, the team is going to lose alot defensively at the start of the games.

Remember at the start of the games, the players are hot and the field goal percentages are usually higher, so the Grizzlies need more perimeter defense. They do not have enough of it at the moment. And I still stand by my trade for Eddie Jones. To go to the next level, you need to stop teams from scoring.

The team will get lit up by backcourts this year featuring:

Rockets - Francis, Mobley
Dallas - Nash, Finley
Lakers - Bryant
Clippers - Miller, Richardson
Seattle - Payton, Barry
Sacramento - Bibby, Peja
Wolves - Brandon, Wally Z

If the Grizzlies want to go to the next level, they need to be able to contain teams like the above, to get some wins. They need guys that can defend top class offensive players. Sure they are going to score 20, but make sure they do not get 30 points per game.

I know that people say, this team is young let them develop and not make any changes. But why not make the team great now and contend, instead of waiting around to see if positive things are going to happen. I have always believed that if you want to contend, you need to make moves. Relying on young guys to take a team to the next level, is very risky in its own right .

All I am saying, is that the team needs to go out and get a perimeter defender, one that can score but can also hang with a Kobe, or a Finley for 30-35 minutes per night and contain him to some degree. The only guys that I would think about is Aaron McKie or Eddie Jones. These guys are 6"5 and 6"7 respectively and can defend to the limit but can score, pass, rebound and handle the ball. They are as complete as you can get of a backcourt player.

So why not go get this player now?? Why wait around for another 2-3 seasons, wondering when the team is going to make the playoffs?? Personnally, the Grizzlies will not make the playoffs this year. There is just too much competition in the West right now. I mean to make the playoffs you need between 45-50 wins per season. This is mixed in with playing the Lakers, Kings, Spurs, Dallas, Wolves, Clippers etc 4 times per year. They need to at least square each of these series, as well as beat teams below them consistently. This is not even mentioning the East teams like the Nets, Celtics, Hornets. They are just one player away from being a threat in the West. Not a threat for the championship, but a threat to make the 7th or 8th spot, this season.

They just lack the players that I mentioned above. Mckie or Jones.If they can get one of these guys, the roster is set to the optimum and I beleive that the team will be even better!!


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## w-h-i-t-e-b-o-y

*WOW!*

That was a great post! I like everything that was said. What would the signing of Michael Redd do for the perimeter and the D. I know he isnt a big defensice stopper but he does play good D and he can shoot the lights out. I would still love to see EJ in a Grizz uni but it just doesnt look like its gonna happen and as far as Aaron is concerned he wont be leaving Philly anytime soon becuase Brown loves his effort and as mentioned his D. I would try for EJ and if we cant get him reasonably then get Redd.


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## Dakota

I also agree 100% about the defense. People alway's say that the key to winning a championship is to have a first rate defense. The Lakers have very good role players who defend well. Shaq is an unstoppable force down low and Kobe is coming into his own as well. I believe that this Griz team can be good defensively because they have the outright talent to do so. If you look at the players they have, there are about 7 that have great athletiscm. If Lowe can teach them how to play the "D", then they will win the games



word out


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## kingofkings

*Is anyone surprised...*

Is anyone surprised, that Jerry West, has seemingly kept a pretty low profile, since being with the Grizzlies. Apart from his drafting of Drew Gooden and signing of Trybanski, it appears that there will be no movements in the roster, in the horizon.

I would have thought, that with his networks, he would have been more active and gone out and traded for what the team needed, which is a perimeter based defensive player, like that have been mentioned earlier in this thread.

I also thought, that he would have attempted to thin the excess capacity of his big man department, to get one of the Grizzlies team needs.

It appears that he is satisfied with the roster as it is. I have not heard any rumours about trades for the Grizzlies in a while.

But overall, I am surprised, that with less than 1 month before training camp, that a team that struggled last year has not made many significant changes so far.

The Clippers have got better, the Warriors will improve, with their recent drafts, while the Grizzlies have remained pretty inactive.

Maybe West wants to give the Grizzlies one more year to see how everything lies, before making any significant changes. But whatever happens, this year, if the team struggles, expect changes next season, as West will not take mediocrity by the Grizzlies.


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## luciano

maybe west is still working for the lakers


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## Shadows

First off if you look at this thread from begining to end the quality of the posts is terrific. Every post was in-depth and very well thought out. :yes: 

As far as the Grizz not making that many moves in the offseason I dissagree. Other then Swift I doubt anyone is really expandable on this team. They have added all sorts of role players and rookies including.

- Cezary Trybanski 
- Earl Watson 
-Wesley Person
-Drew Gooden
-Robert Archibald

I really dident expect west to tear apart the team when he came in. He said he liked the nucleus and wanted to bulid the team with what they have.

A defensive stopper would be great ie:Eddie Jones but being realistic I dont see Miami accepting just Swift for EJ.(At least I doubt it) and I really would not want to give up more than that.

With that said if the team is still horibble half way through the season I fully expect J-west to start pulling the trigger on trades.


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## truebluefan

Kingofkings its not just West that seems to be taking a low profile. Still a number of players out there that hasn't been signed yet and only three weeks left until training camp


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## Dakota

I agree with Shadows also, the Griz have brought in alot more players and talent then other teams. I'd have to say that they were one of the 10 most active teams during the offseason. Plus there is still a couple more month's until everything gets back underway for the league again. Until the trading deadline hits, im thinkin the blockbuster deals are done though for the offseason.
Can't wait till the season starts an the Griz start winning some more games.



word


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## kingofkings

*Michael Dickerson...*

Where does everyone see the future of Michael Dickerson. My opinion, is that he is going to have some strong competition from, both Wesley Person and Shane Battier and Giricek at the shooting guard spot.

Person is a better and more controlled shooter then Dickerson, but Dickerson is faster and more athletic. But Dickerson only shot 41% from the field last year, before his injury and if he gets cold, then the Grizzlies have other options, to sit him down.

Battier will see plenty of minutes at the two spot, because of his defensive abilties, in being able to contain the good two guards of the West and Person, is getting $8 million per year and he will play alot of minutes. Person is also coming off his best season in the NBA, shooting 50% from the field and 44% from downtown.

Training camp, will be huge at the shooting guard position. I mean, there is no way that Dickerson will be guaranteed the starting shooting guard spot anyway. The Grizzlies have too many options at this position, to guarantee a guy a spot.

Minutes will be important, at the 2 spot as well. Will the Grizzlies want to ease Dickerson back into the rotation, after his injury?? If so, that will give Battier or Person a chance to cement their spot in the starting rotation.

I like Michael Dickerson, but the heat will be on now. There is competition for all places in the team, which is great. Training camp will be huge and competitive. I just chose to highlight the shooting guard battle that will take place!!


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## MemphisX

Great thread!

At the start of the season the line up will be:

PG J Will
SG Mike D.
SF Battier
PF Gasol
C Wright

By midseason, it will be:

PG J WIll
SG Mike D
SF Drew Gooden
PF Stro Swift
C Pau Gasol

I know nationally people think Gasol or Battier are the leaders of this team, but the real leader is Jason Williams. Jason Williams was the most important Grizzly last season. Do not be shocked if Jason Williams is the Most Improved Player this season. He really started to show at the end of last season that he was understanding what it took to run a team. Jason shot a horrible fg% becasue the Grizzlies lacked scoring options last season and when the offense was bogged down, Williams was forced to shoot bad shots. You want to know how limited the Grizzlies offense was....Jason Williams had the SECOND HIGHEST 3pt FG% on the team of the player who played significant minutes.


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## UofMark

I agree with you totally about JWill. He started out very erratic last season but changed his game considerably for the better as the season went on. When he would come out of a game after starting, you could just feel the energy level on the floor drop. As for his stats, you're correct in saying they're skewed toward the bad side simply because our offensive sets were so erratic and poorly executed he didn't have any choice but to shoot some low percentage shots. If we stay healthy, and surround JWill with some true NBA'ers, his game will lift itself accordingly.


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## Pause

iam a knick fan but because of there awul management and reluctancy to rebuild i watched allot of younger teams liek the grizzlies and clippers on the dish last year i have two comments regarding the grizz organazation...



1.i love jerry west and im not knocking him but the one thing that surprised me in that he seemed to take the "safe" pick in the draft for the first time in his career... i expected him to take a potential superstar in wagner or butler and worry about where they fit on the team later on like he did with the lakers... or if not that there were allot of teams interested in that pick i tohught west would trade the pick for a few players that could fill hoels on his team.. maybe gooden will be betetr then i think but it just surprised me he took the safe pick there do any grizz fans feel the same way??



2.Stromile Swift at this point in his development is ahead of darius miles... they are both athletic freaks who get 90% of there points on fast breaks dunks and alley oops but swift at times showed flashes of a post game and shot where miles has shown zero offensive moves... if i ddint pay attention to hype and looked at thme unbiasely to there present devlopment id give the edge to Swift..


everything from his body to style of play is reminescent of a young shawn kemp theres no reason he cant be as good as Kemp was in his prime but its all up to Stromile to live up to that promise..


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## Dakota

You know the way I see it about drafting Drew Gooden this year is that although it is a safe pick , it also is a very solid pick. This kid has potential to be like Tim Thomas or Antoine Walker. Well, maybe not as good offensively as Antoine, but could get very close in the future. I don't think that Jerry West could take a chance on a pick for a team that needs to win games next year. For the Lakers when he drafted guys like Kobe, Fisher, and Patterson , there was room to leave guys to develop because that team was already playoff caliber without the rookies. These Grizzlies need a solid players around there whole team. Guys like Swift, Dickerson, and Williams can further use there unbelievable atheltic ability to help this team get better. In the long run, drafting Gooden will help this team tremendously. Maybe in a few years West can gamble on potential superstar, but just not at this point


word out to LD


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## jsa

Jayson Williams is going to hold that team back. They have scoring and athleticism, why not try to get a fundamental point guard, who would be happy to pass the ball and gut up on defense. Addition by subtraction.

Gasol and Battier are a great complimentary set of forwards. When you put Swift in, he plays if he does the right thing, sits if he doesn't. If he can get it mentally, he'll improve and earn time.

I don't beleive Dickerson is good enough in the long run to be the two guard, but if he is healthy, he can be decent now. Battier should not be used much here, in my opinion.

Everybody has center problems. There are six or seven centers who you might be able to get for Swift or Williams, such as Mihm, Woods, Mohammmed,E. Johnson or even Olowokandi. They are not much better, if any, than what you got. 

As the long term plan, I would look for a defensive center and solid as rock point, add 1 more scorer at the two, and build around two or three of the forwards.Add a little role player veteran depth and your in the playoffs. 

2003-2004 and Memphis can be heard from.


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## Dakota

Alright now all those centers you mentioned are no where close skill wise to each other. Michael Olowakandi is the 2nd best center in the leauge. I don't know how you can say that, he is not much better than what we got. He is a hek of alot better than what we got. NO disrespect to Lorenzen but Olowakandi has him by a long shot. Loren Woods was a rookie last year, and didn't even play, so I don't why you even mentioned him. Chris Mihm and Nahzi Mohammed are both good centers and could be very good in the future. Earvin Johnson is good, but he is also old so I don't think anyone would try to pick him up for just a couple of years. 



word out


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## hogey11

Wow, i cant believe i missed this thread throughout its prime..... if only i had a time machine.....

what do you guys think about the recent developments in grizz land, with Gooden showing potential to be as good as he was at the college level, the emergence of Gordon Giricek, and the improving play of Stromile Swift? i know that it is the preseason, but all three of these guys are giving Sidney Lowe a justifiable reason to start every one of them. 

(secretly, this is a feeble attempt to revive this thread.... i hope it works :grinning: :grinning: :grinning: )


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## bdachakeya

hogey11, I think it's a good thing. This brings on better competition when vying for playing time. And by the look of things so far, a few of the players we had penciled in for starting spots at the beginning might be in a little trouble. I've been real impressed with the way Gooden and Giricek have come into camp and are showing that they're not just going to be two normal rookies who are going to accept being backups without giving a fight to be starters. I must admit, I was one of many who didn't think that Drew was the best pick for this team, but looks like he's proving me and alot others wrong. If these are not in the starting line-up at the beginning of the season, it sure won't be because they weren't productive enough. I can't wait until this team gets to the point where they had started geling with each other, because with the showing of the rookies in the preseason the bench can be very deadly to their opponents.


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## hogey11

I agree. I think that if gasol turns out to be a superstar, this team could become the next new jersey nets, in that they arent limited to a 7-8 man rotation, but have 10-12 players that can come in and contribute. the only problem i see is that there may not be enough touches for everyone. Giricek doesnt really need that much preparation as he has been playing pro in europe for probably a decade already. he is probably the most nba-ready of the two rookies. I think that if Pau Gasol can play the center, it will really open up a lot of options for the grizz. battier pretty much has the SF spot locked up, as hes too good a player to bring off the bench. It will really be interesting to see how lowe sets up this team. i have big expectations for them this year.... not tooo big, but big nonetheless.


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