# Just thought I'd post this article about VC and NYK



## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/story/217106p-186848c.html

These always seem to come out after an article or interview by Rob Babcock saying he expects VC in camp. Of course I always considered that posturing to keep his trade value high.

The article points out well that VC has no leverage as compared to Shaq and T-Mac, so he cannot really dictate where he wants to go. Except VC really has only 3, not 4 years left. The 4th is his option.

I don't want to get people going on this board again, but the Raptors will be looking for a premier talent in return like a Ray Allen or PP (not gonna happen IMO) or more probably some good YOUNG players and possibly off load a bad contract.

Allan Houston, Shandon, are players Zeke would like to move for Vince, not players Babcock will trade for Vince. I could see Kurt Thomas as part of a package, but remember, Toronto is not trying to compete now. Rob has bought himself 2 years of growing pains, so 30 year old max-vet swingmen are not in the cards.

If you hate VC take some deep breaths and hope he gets moved elsewhere or stays put.


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## Sánchez AF (Aug 10, 2003)

Again the Knick dont have nothing to offer for Vince Nothing !!!

I hope Vince stay as Raptor or go to a good team like the Mavs or a team with Future like the Sixers


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## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>SpeakerBoxxx</b>!
> Again the Knick dont have nothing to offer for Vince Nothing !!!
> 
> I hope Vince stay as Raptor or go to a good team like the Mavs or a team with Future like the Sixers


Can you do us a favor and tell all this to Vince.


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## JT (Mar 1, 2004)

*No you won't like it, you'll LOVE it.*

If Vince wants to come here, we will give you our overpaid garbage and you will like it.


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## Knicksbiggestfan (Apr 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>SpeakerBoxxx</b>!
> Again the Knick dont have nothing to offer for Vince Nothing !!!
> 
> I hope Vince stay as Raptor or go to a good team like the Mavs or a team with Future like the Sixers


We have lots of good players. You just don't know enough about basketball to name any.


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## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>SpeakerBoxxx</b>!
> 
> Again the Knick dont have nothing to offer for Vince Nothing !!!


I wonder what your pals on the Raptors board would say if they knew you were over here calling him Vince Nothing.


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

Good one Oakley :sigh: 
You should be a comedian...

Yeah let's trade VC to NY.. They have a lot of high paid, overrated, past their prime players that we so sorely need! Let's get Shandon Anderson and Alan Houston to start with!


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## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

The only time VC is discussed here is when someone reports he wants to come to NY. How about you tell Vince to shut up and stay on your team, then we wont have to suffer your childish incursions to our board.


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## JT (Mar 1, 2004)

*everybody was healthy too.*



> Originally posted by <b>son of oakley</b>!
> 
> How about you tell Vince to shut up and stay on your team, then we wont have to suffer your childish incursions to our board.


I agree they are taking out their frustrations upon us, the Raptors didn't make the playoffs last year so they might as well take their anger out on Knicks fans who made it despite being injured.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

Oak,you already have your game face on and its not even preseason yet..

I am saving it for the regular season


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## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

truth man, I'm boooored. I hate baseball. I actually had a WNBA game on the other night, but I wasn't paying attention.

I need a life....


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

*Re: everybody was healthy too.*



> Originally posted by <b>sherako</b>!
> 
> 
> I agree they are taking out their frustrations upon us, the Raptors didn't make the playoffs last year so they might as well take their anger out on Knicks fans who made it despite being injured.



Wow.. You guys were injured? I don't think you watch much basketball, because for awhile we had 3 of our starters out due to injury.. There was a couple of games where, VC, Jalen, Bosh, and Alvin were all out due to injury.. Don't even start talking about the Knicks being injured...


Hey I guess you guys should be happy you made it anyways.. While you guys were being swept by the New Jersey nets, we got to enter the lottery.. Who's laughing now?


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## The True Essence (May 26, 2003)

lol the kid you drafted sucks. you better get used to starting bosh at center yet again.

Allan Houston, our best scorer, missed like 30 something games last year. i thought you guys said Vince wasnt injured last year? didnt he play 73 games?

we made our push to the playoffs without allan. then in the playoffs we got our *** kicked when Thomas went down, and we still didnt have Houston. 

the last two games were very close, and if houston and tim were fine, it would have been a completely different series.........except we woulda still lost.

take allan and tim out of the lineup, and thats 35 points we wont get.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

yeah,you made it to the lottery and Carter just cant wait to play with that stiff:no:


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>PennyHardaway</b>!
> 
> Allan Houston, our best scorer, missed like 30 something games last year. i thought you guys said Vince wasnt injured last year? didnt he play 73 games?


 Vince only missed like 9 games last season, but it was at a bad time when the rest of our team was injured.. It wouldn't have been that big of a difference if Jalen and Alvin were healthy... But it did.. 



> take allan and tim out of the lineup, and thats 35 points we wont get.



Oh so your saying that the two players that replaced tim and allan don't score any points? Stop whining.. You got owned.. Jason Kidd wasn't even 100% and he still raped you guys.. At least we got something out of the draft, we needed a big guy, and we got one..


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

> Oh so your saying that the two players that replaced tim and allan don't score any points?



its only half true..Pennt filled in well..but Shandone Anderson may have score 10 points the whole series..

The truth is we lost 15 to 20 points combined...easily

why are yo so bitter???

carter wants out.....can you balme him..you guys sukk


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

Haha.. I don't care if Carter wants out.. Quite frankly, there are a lot of fans that want him out.. 
We suck?
Didn't you guys spend like twice as much money as us last year? And that brought you how many playoff wins?


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## Knicksbiggestfan (Apr 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jcintosun911</b>!
> Haha.. I don't care if Carter wants out.. Quite frankly, there are a lot of fans that want him out..
> We suck?
> Didn't you guys spend like twice as much money as us last year? And that brought you how many playoff wins?



Do you even remember what the playoffs are anymore?


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

the next free agent that WANTS to play in Toronto will be the FIRST

Dont blame NY for that


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## djmyte (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>truth</b>!
> the next free agent that WANTS to play in Toronto will be the FIRST
> 
> Dont blame NY for that


Pretty ignorant statement considering FA's chose to sign with Toronto in the past.

Just because you would be prejudice towards playing in Canada doesn't mean ALL or even ALOT of NBA players would be.


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## Knicksbiggestfan (Apr 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>djmyte</b>!
> 
> 
> Pretty ignorant statement considering FA's chose to sign with Toronto in the past.
> ...


Yeah, that Rafer Alston signing was huge. What a huge pick up. I am glad he was able to beat out the flux of players who yearn to play in Canada.




As for ignorant statements, yes, you made a few. But you are right about truth he's as anticandian as the come, and even runs an anticanadian website.
:yes:


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## djmyte (Jun 10, 2002)

You obviously read the previous posts and you obviously speak English which means you should be able to understand what you read...so how is it that your response completely deviates from the points being discussed?


Anyways...




> Yeah, that Rafer Alston signing was huge. What a huge pick up. I am glad he was able to beat out the flux of players who yearn to play in Canada.


Yet he still signed with Toronto, thus the "next free agent that wants to play in Toronto" will not be the first. 




> But you are right about truth he's as anticandian as the come, and even runs an anticanadian website.


I don't recall calling anyone "anticanadian". I just couldn't help but sense a negative prejudgement(prejudice) towards the idea of playing ball in Toronto, specifically because it is where it is. Some people may not want to play there but to assume everyone doesn't is asinine.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

:sigh: 

How do these Vince threads always turn in this direction?


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## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>blowuptheraptors</b>!
> :sigh:
> 
> How do these Vince threads always turn in this direction?


I say this without sarcasm. Because you are the only credible Raptors fan I can think of that visits this board. The rest are cut from the cloth of Vince is god, your guys suck, lets see who can piss farther. Look at this very thread. You start it with good intentions, but you left open the gate behind you and one the kids got out of the nursery. All it takes is one around here.

That said, I know you guys have a pretty good board, and Chicago's is very good. Even the Nets have a good board. I'm disappointed in ours, at least this time of year. Hardly anyone around, nobody posting articles, nada. We need some new blood. Just no one from ESPN. Wow, those guys come in crashing and thrashing. Can take aboard down in a week if you're not careful.

Anyway, what's the latest Blowup, he staying or going?


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

> But you are right about truth he's as anticandian as the come, and even runs an anticanadian website.





yes,please check out my website...AntiCanuck.com

My featured topic will be the oppression of Vince Carter and him being held in Toronto against his will....

FREE VINCE CARTER:grinning:


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

> Yet he still signed with Toronto, thus the "next free agent that wants to play in Toronto" will not be the first.


My apologies,I should have said decent free agent...:grinning: 

BTW,if you noticed,I responded to someones post about the knicks winning 50 games over the next to years.I am pretty sure he was a Raptors fan....


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>son of oakley</b>!
> 
> 
> I say this without sarcasm. Because you are the only credible Raptors fan I can think of that visits this board. The rest are cut from the cloth of Vince is god, your guys suck, lets see who can piss farther. Look at this very thread. You start it with good intentions, but you left open the gate behind you and one the kids got out of the nursery. All it takes is one around here.
> ...


It looks like he'll be sticking around at least through the start of the season. Management seems to want to keep him. VC still wants to go and thinks he will go given some of his comments over the weekend at his game. "Enjoy me where ever I am" to his fans.

I think the team has told him to sit tight. One of a few things will happen. 

If things go better with the Nets dispersal and movement of the Hornets, perhaps VC gets a change of attitude. I doubt the Raps make the playoffs given the overall injury record of the team, not just VC.

What I think is more likely is a midseason/deadline deal. Babcock is a smart guy in that he does not want to deal his ace away with the pressure of a trade demand. He will hope Vince has a good, injury free year and deal him after some of this trade noise has stopped. He wants to wait until the sharks stop circling.

I just hope Rob doesn't have this backfire on him with an injury. Myself and a lot of others wanted Vince gone draftday, for the good of the franchise, not because we dislike him and regardless of this trade demand nonsense.


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## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

would you want to do a vince for kidd kind of thing (fill in the star of your choice) or do you want to blow it all up for drafts a la NJ?


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

I was hoping for a Gordon + Deng and ERob+Pip, before they signed.

So, kids, picks and deals with 2 years or less. No stars.

But that's me. Not Babcock.


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## Knicksbiggestfan (Apr 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>djmyte</b>!
> You obviously read the previous posts and you obviously speak English which means you should be able to understand what you read...so how is it that your response completely deviates from the points being discussed?
> 
> 
> ...



This is by far the stupidest attempt at a logic attack I have ever seen. Do you realize that in one sentence you question the existence of my comphrension, then in the VERY NEXT SENTENCE acknowledge my comprehension and take issue with it?


Do you have any idea how stupid that makes you look? It's like me telling you you're stupid because you don't post on basketball messageboards. Jesus christ get a damn grip.


Don't question me until you can string together a cogent thought long enough to write it down.



Like I said Grats on signing Rafer but you're making an " asnine " assumption if you think he left for the maple bacon or hockey. He left for the scrilla, which is the only way Toronto attracts free agents.


Until you come up with proof that someone wished to play for Toronto solely because of thieir affinity for the denizens, locale, and lifestyle offered Truth's point remains valid.


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## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>blowuptheraptors</b>!
> I was hoping for a Gordon + Deng and ERob+Pip, before they signed.
> 
> So, kids, picks and deals with 2 years or less. No stars.
> ...


Yeah well, hang tight, this time next year Isiah will trade you TT and PH's expiring contracts for Vince and Rose. Then you guys will be way under the cap in '06 and can sign Yao Ming, while we try to find room on our IR for two maxed out injured players.


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## djmyte (Jun 10, 2002)

Predictable. Instead of a basketball related debate this has degenerated into a logic debate. I think you realize what you wrote was irrelevant and in an attempt to save face you decided to pursue a useless argument with no end. 




> This is by far the stupidest attempt at a logic attack I have ever seen. Do you realize that in one sentence you question the existence of my comphrension, then in the VERY NEXT SENTENCE acknowledge my comprehension and take issue with it?



I wasn't attacking your "logic". I merely pointed out that you possibly made an error in your understanding of what you read or perhaps ignored what the argument was initially about to suit your needs thus making your response irrelevant.

You are correct in that I did take issue with what I deemed an irrelevant response but what else was I going to respond to? I suppose I could have posted it differently to avoid any confusion but this is a msg board, "get a damn grip". My response still serves it's initial purpose which is to point out what the discussion is supposed to be about.






> Like I said Grats on signing Rafer but you're making an " asnine " assumption if you think he left for the maple bacon or hockey. He left for the scrilla, which is the only way Toronto attracts free agents.



What does bacon or hockey have to do with basketball? The original argument wasn't why Rafer or any other FA signed with the Raptors it was that FA's have indeed chosen to sign with the Raptors. 

How would you know money is the only way Toronto attracts FA's? Have you talked to all the NBA players personally or are you making uninformed assumptions? 






> Until you come up with proof that someone wished to play for Toronto solely because of Truth's point remains valid.



Does any player sign with any team based solely on thieir affinity for the denizens, locale, and lifestyle offered? Money is what motivates any particular player to sign on the dotted line with any particular team, Toronto included.

And what kind of proof will you be needing? Written statements from the players? The proof is that FA's have signed with Toronto in the past, by choice, not because they were forced to.


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## alphadog (Jan 2, 2004)

*I think ...*

what KBF meant was that Toronto is not considered a hot destination for FA's. All things considered equal, they will go elsewhere....actually anywhere but . The proof is in the amount of major FA's that have signed or been close to signing with the Raptors. When guys that are good start going there as a preferred place you can ague you point with some validity, but until then KBF's in your face style comments are spot on.


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## djmyte (Jun 10, 2002)

Toronto isn't a hot destination because they have mismanaged their funds and can't afford to offer large contracts to top FA's. The majority of the players that play here say they like the city, the fans etc. It's a common misconception that NBA players dislike Toronto solely because of where it is(prejudice). Granted some do, but certainly not all. For example, Vince chose to resign when he could have easily asked for a trade or eventually left via free agency. You also have to remember the Raptor franchise has only been around for 9-10 years.

Saying that FA's would rather go "anywhere but" is an ignorant statement because it is your assumption, not a fact. However, it is a fact that FA's have chosen to sign in Toronto when they could have gone elsewhere.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

*Re: I think ...*



> Originally posted by <b>alphadog</b>!
> what KBF meant was that Toronto is not considered a hot destination for FA's. All things considered equal, they will go elsewhere....actually anywhere but . The proof is in the amount of major FA's that have signed or been close to signing with the Raptors. When guys that are good start going there as a preferred place you can ague you point with some validity, but until then KBF's in your face style comments are spot on.


When would they have been able to even try for big free agents? They have been capped out for years and are competing with every other team at the MLE level. 

The only summer that they went outside to get a semi big name FA was the year they re-signed everybody and got Dream. That was a big mistake but he chose Toronto above Indy and others who offered similar dough.

I agree that no-one would come right now because the situation is s. Back then we were a team seemingly on the rise. Oops.

It is really moot anyway because we have no cap room to speak of for years. 

My hope was to move out some of our salary for some 2 year or less contracts and build similar to Denver. The players will come if you can show a promising future. There are only so many warm-weather markets.

As for endorsements and Canada, if you are a player, corporate AMERICA and Canada will pay you. Vince has been in National US campaigns for Nike and Gatorade as well as several ones in Canada. It's actually a double edged sword if you are the real deal.

The tax situation is in the top tier of the league, (better than NY actually). And cost of living is way better since players live using CDN dollars after earning US dollars.

This crap is starting to sink in. If someone wants to be warm there is nothing anyone can do. The new management team has to take away the basketball related excuses for not coming here. Other than the cold, there is no other reason, but nearly half the league has cold weather.


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