# First impression: Deng looks FANTASTIC!



## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

I have some doubts about Mr. Gentle Ben, but allow me to put those aside for a moment while I gush about Luol Deng.

Honestly, his performance last night was the best all around performance I think I have seen in a summer league, although a lot of impressive performances have not been televised. 

Deng was everywhere. He was a cat on defense, and his length and effort are intimidating. The length of his arms is very evident. He's going to be getting a decent amount of steals and blocks.

His passing was phenominal all night. He was using his dribble to draw attention, and the decisiveness and intelligence of his passing left players receiving them open all night. He clearly has the ability to take the ball coast to coast. There is something awkward about him, and there may always be, but much like a Ron Artest, that awkwardness does not seem to hinder his effectiveness.

Luol shoots the kind of jumper I like (as does Ben), with a healthy arc. He's got a soft touch. Not everything went in, but he seems pretty money from midrange like he did in college.

Luol is the kind of player who does not need the ball in his hands to change a game. When he has the ball, he does not need to keep it long. But it was very clear to me from the outset that he has the potential to be a game changer. It is possible many of his skills will be nullified against real NBA defenders. But I'm sure the summer leagues are a step up in competition from a lot of the teams he played against during the regular season, but at this level Deng is capable of his own ugly-beauty dominance.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Darius Miles Davis</b>!
> I have some doubts about Mr. Gentle Ben, but allow me to put those aside for a moment while I gush about Luol Deng.
> 
> Honestly, his performance last night was the best all around performance I think I have seen in a summer league, although a lot of impressive performances have not been televised.
> ...


Deng was impressive but if thats the best Summer league performance you have ever seen you need to watch more summer league.


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## SecretAgentGuy (Jul 15, 2003)

DMD, can you expand on his quickness? I tried to gather all I could from the game thread, but there's not too much to go off of. Was he able to stay in front of his man consistently? Was his man someone you would call quick? And was Deng able to take his man off the dribble and finish?


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

*Re: Re: First impression: Deng looks FANTASTIC!*



> Originally posted by <b>ace20004u</b>!
> 
> 
> Deng was impressive but if thats the best Summer league performance you have ever seen you need to watch more summer league.


This year. Unfortunately, Dwight Howard's monster game was not televised. There have been some good games by Marquis Daniels, Devon Harris and Josh Howard that have also not been televised. I saw Al Jefferson look like a dominant big man in a couple games, and I was extremely impressed, but Deng's game impressed me more because he scored well and passed well and played good defense. Al's just a scorer right now, and a good one.

And Skita? I'm glad to see more out of him, but one reason his numbers are so high is that the Nugs are using the summer league as a way for him to reobtain his confidence by taking 800 shots per game. But he also can't do anything but score.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>sp00k</b>!
> DMD, can you expand on his quickness? I tried to gather all I could from the game thread, but there's not too much to go off of. Was he able to stay in front of his man consistently? Was his man someone you would call quick? And was Deng able to take his man off the dribble and finish?


Deng didn't really take anyone off the dribble all the way to the rack last night. He had one dunk on a fast break when fed by Duhon, but that's gravy. He'll take a dribble or two and hit a jumper. His midrange game has the potential to be deadly. Taking guys off the dribble is not Deng's game in general, but from what I've seen in college he can do it against a solid college player like a Jawad Williams from NC, all the way from the top of the key.

Deng's lateral quickness, combined with his length, will definitely lead to some hard nosed D.

He just looks so versatile out there. I'm not concerned about the lack of off the dribble stuff yet. It could be a concern going forward.


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## Chi_Lunatic (Aug 20, 2002)

will you people please get off this gordon issue..it was 1 SUMMER LEAGUE game...now when he's doing that in an NBA season, then have your DOUBTS...

he still had a good game..scored 20 very quietly...


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## Chi_Lunatic (Aug 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Darius Miles Davis</b>!
> 
> 
> Deng didn't really take anyone off the dribble all the way to the rack last night. He had one dunk on a fast break when fed by Duhon, but that's gravy. He'll take a dribble or two and hit a jumper. His midrange game has the potential to be deadly. Taking guys off the dribble is not Deng's game in general, but from what I've seen in college he can do it against a solid college player like a Jawad Williams from NC, all the way from the top of the key.
> ...


he actually did take one player off the dribble and did a lil off the glass runner...


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: First impression: Deng looks FANTASTIC!*



> Originally posted by <b>Darius Miles Davis</b>!
> 
> 
> This year. Unfortunately, Dwight Howard's monster game was not televised. There have been some good games by Marquis Daniels, Devon Harris and Josh Howard that have also not been televised. I saw Al Jefferson look like a dominant big man in a couple games, and I was extremely impressed, but Deng's game impressed me more because he scored well and passed well and played good defense. Al's just a scorer right now, and a good one.
> ...


Keith Bogans has had MONSTER games
Gerald Wallace has played big
Al Jefferson
Skita can score but his defense is a joke
Even my boy Rickey Paulding had some nice Summer league play.
Darius Rice (who I haven't seen but have heard is playing huge)


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## ChiBullsFan (May 30, 2002)

I think Deng is the king of "deceptive" skills.

He does a lot of things very effectively even though they admittedly don't necessarily look pretty.

He's a paradox in that so many look at him and think he's raw, yet his skill set is, in reality, quite refined for a guy his age.

His dribble doesn't look fluid a lot of the time, yet I can't think of a single time where that alone led to a turnover.

He doesn't look particularly athletic or quick, and yet you never saw the guy getting beat off the dribble by his man when he was in college (though admittedly he did guard a lot of more natural 4s).

I understand why as fans there are question marks, but from somebody who's watched A LOT of Deng, trust me when I tell you that he will make few mistakes and be at the very least 'proficient' in all aspects of the game. He's just not the type of player who's gonna have a real weakness to exploit. The bigger question, I believe, is if he can develop some of his solid skills into high-quality/dominant skills at the NBA level.


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## Machinehead (Jun 12, 2002)

I'm seeing Luol Deng having a similar NBA game to Larry Johnson


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>F.Jerzy</b>!
> I'm seeing Luol Deng having a similar NBA game to Larry Johnson


What? You think Deng is a 20 and 10 player or are you talking about LJ after the back problems?


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## Machinehead (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>MemphisX</b>!
> 
> 
> What? You think Deng is a 20 and 10 player or are you talking about LJ after the back problems?


Its not about the statistics in how I see them its in the similarity of physique and playing style 

SAR is a guy that puts up these numbers and I see no similarty of Luol Deng to him 

But if Luol could be putting up LJ numbers in his Charlotte heyday then hey I would be estatic 

Who was it the other day that predicted Luol would be the Elton Brand ( Mr 20 and 10 himself ) of small forwards ?


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## Lusty RaRue (Sep 9, 2003)

He and KH are similar in that they aren't great athletes but are good enough and their heart & mind will figure greatly in their performance.

Just because he's not a 2/3 type doesn't mean it's a bad thing. If he's getting beat(he will) then either: 1. He plays less that night and a smaller quicker player gets some of his normal minutes. 

or more likely

2. He "channels" his man into a planned defense the way Harper did(and got credit for being a great defender when he was mainly shadowing/paralelling(sic?) his man into a very good defense and then using his length to hinder a shot/pass.

As ChiBullsFan has mentioned previously, watch for Deng to be quite good at post entry passes.

I'll go out on a limb here and say that Deng will be the 2nd best back to the basket player on the team. I just want to see some of these smaller "wings" defend him in the low block. :laugh: good luck. He's not a twig(he has room to fill out or at least get stronger) and isn't afraid of contact. Those arms will serve him well just as Donyells helped him "play big" when he was a Bull. And unlike Fizer, he'll use technique and not bowl over defenders and get offensive fouls often.


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## Sith (Oct 20, 2003)

forget about deng. this bulls team will go as far as curry/gordon/chandler take them. maybe kirk too. deng wont be contributing much next year.


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## Machinehead (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Lusty RaRue</b>!
> 
> As ChiBullsFan has mentioned previously, watch for Deng to be quite good at post entry passes.


He already is 

If you go back and watch his tourney he really is quite a gifted passer - particularly in feeding the post from the top of the key 



> I'll go out on a limb here and say that Deng will be the 2nd best back to the basket player on the team. I just want to see some of these smaller "wings" defend him in the low block. :laugh: good luck. He's not a twig(he has room to fill out or at least get stronger) and isn't afraid of contact. Those arms will serve him well just as Donyells helped him "play big" when he was a Bull. And unlike Fizer, he'll use technique and not bowl over defenders and get offensive fouls often.


He'll be tougher than Donyell but a smarter bullock than Marcus Fizer 

Like I say . I think he will be a Larry Johnson style pro


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

i dont see what you people are seeing .

Larry johnson ? in game and build ...the build thing is just hilariously off considering LJ's power and the fact that a month ago deng couldn't lift 185 more than 5 times, that and deng's post play has been on offense simply not there because he hasn't been posting up, another reason the LJ comparison is off .

moving on i have been impressed in general with how well his game has translated to summer league play on the perimeter, he has passed and shot well , his defense against the jazz was pretty good but the doubts were somewhat reaffirmed about his quickness in the spur game when the few times he was matched against devin brown he just went by deng.


by the way when should it be a concern that in the 3 summer league games the opposing starting 2 guard has been the leading scorer .


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## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

Prime time LJ was all back to basket, explosion, can't stop me in the paint....

Deng is making a living on the perimeter. Better skills than athletism

I think Deng will be a great pickup, but I don't see the simiilarities to LJ either.


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## Machinehead (Jun 12, 2002)

Larry Johnson came into the league with an NBA body after his body matured in college 

On my observation , Deng has the body type to add some bulk 

Let's not forget this boy has yet to grow into his man's body - but given his shape I am confident that he will resemble a Larry Johnson type body at 6'8 250

Let's not forget what Tim Grover said about him earlier in the summer too where he made comment that with the right type of training , Deng's explosive capacity will surprise . In the same commentary on Deng he also remarked about his footwork and post game 

On top of this and watching Deng as the season progressed .. particularly in the tourney .. and even more particularly in the final four game against the Huskies ( which I was watching again on the weekend ) he progressed from being a perimeter based guy to by the time the tourney rocked around - to being a guy who could post up and outjump/outwork bigger longer guys in traffic for the key rebound or finish 

In this snapshot I saw of him at tourney time and particularly in the tourney game against the Huskies .. then with the right type of explosion / strength training and consequent addition of size in that body frame ................ _ combined with _ his head for the game that LJ always had....

Then I am confident that within 2 seasons when he is the same age (approx ) as what LJ was coming into the league.. you will see a player fairly similar to primetime LJ 

And if he isn't .. then you can dig this thread back up and tar and feather me with it


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## The Krakken (Jul 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>F.Jerzy</b>!
> And if he isn't .. then you can dig this thread back up and tar and feather me with it



Oh don't worry...........:laugh: :yes:


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>F.Jerzy</b>!
> Larry Johnson came into the league with an NBA body after his body matured in college
> 
> On my observation , Deng has the body type to add some bulk
> ...


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## Machinehead (Jun 12, 2002)

Outside of the statistical measurements and looking at Luol Deng with the naked eye - you look at his neck and see the thickness of it and you look at his mid riff and calves - and you can just tell that a guy like that has some filling out to do and has the capacity to do it 

The kid is 19 - he will thicken up as he grows into his adult body - he's no ectomorph like Chandler / Prince . Add to the natural thickening a high end weight training and size building regime and IMO Deng will carry another 30 pounds easily - and he'll need to to play the combo forward that he will ultimately be

I mean to compare him to Prince is flat out ridiculous and shows the limitations of statistical referencing in the physical maturation process with what you can see as to a person's body shape 

Did you see Marcus Fizer as an 18 year old playing in the McDonalds All Star Game ?

Shaq as a college freshman ?

I though LJ was an inch taller but no mind - a 2 inch height differential to be the same weight is no biggie for me 

It doesn't have to be an exact physical match to the millimetre or to the pound - I see Deng being a thicker set player just for what I see of his body to the naked eye and would not be surprised to see him pull up at 250 when its all said and done - comfortably 

And in the width of neck, shoulders and girth ( even though he doesn't have the thickness there right now ) the thing that seperates Deng from a Smith and certainly to a Prince is that in their fundamental body shape .. they just don't have the capacity to fill out to the same capacity as what Deng may ( and I think will ) 

But outside of this .. stylistically I see the capacity for Deng to grow into this type of player .. an explosive guy with a post up game in the paint and hot the outside J that can play both forward spots and play in a heady way with a good read on the game 

This with his burly frame that I think will come with maturation leaves me comfortable in my opinion


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## Kismet (Mar 1, 2003)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: First impression: Deng looks FANTASTIC!*



> Originally posted by <b>ace20004u</b>!
> 
> 
> Keith Bogans has had MONSTER games
> ...


In defense of DMD's observations, I don't think he intended to slight anyone else who has played well this summer. I've watched a good number of these games and until the RMR the one player who impressed me the most was Al Jefferson...not because he had a "monster game," but because he played at a consistently high level, game after game. In fact, of all the teams I've watched, Boston put more pure talent on the floor than anyone else. Ainge has done an exceptional job of restocking his roster with young studs who can play. The downside for them is that it's going to probably take a good long while for all that talent to mature.

But I digress. I'd like to support DMD's observations about Deng in this way: Lou's played very well in both televised games. Lou's also shown more versatility in what he can do and how he can impact a game than anyone else I've watched on NBA TV so far. He rebounds. He defends. He can trap full court and still get downcourt in time to defend. He handles the ball well. He can lead the fast break. He is a finisher. He's got one of the softest touches I've seen from 18 feet in. He's got excellent court vision. He's an above average passer. And he always seems to play under control. And of equal if not greater importance is the fact that he's got great instincts and a real feel for the game. He's not just an athlete...he's a real live basketball player.

Keeping things in context, we have to remember that he's performing against a bunch of scrubs who for the most part will never see a live NBA game unless they buy a ticket. But scrubs or not, he's shown real versatility in his game. This is not a one dimensional player who can't contribute if one part of his game fails him on a given night. This is a guy who has the raw tools to beat you many different ways. 

He's so good, in fact, that that's why I think the Bulls will treat him like a priceless treasure and bring him along slowly. We have to remember that he's two years younger than Chandler and Curry. He's still a teenager. Paxson and Skiles aren't going to rush him. That's why they've gone after Nocioni. Make no mistake about it, if we sign Nocioni he'll start and Lou will back him up. They won't protect Lou the way the Pistons shielded Darko, but there are some parallels to each player's NBA futures. Both are extremely talented, yet both are very young. And both, I predict, will become stars in this league.

But the leap from the summer league to the NBA regular season will be huge. Anyone who expects a teenager to produce in November the same way he did in summer league games is being overly optimistic. Lebron James and Carmello Anthony were rare exceptions. I hope that Lou's current success doesn't lead fans to expect similar all-star performances from our 19 year old. He'll get there eventually, but its going to take some time.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: First impression: Deng looks FANTASTIC!*



> Originally posted by <b>Kismet</b>!
> Lou's also shown more versatility in what he can do and how he can impact a game than anyone else I've watched on NBA TV so far.


That's probably a better way to say what I was getting at.

And no, I do not expect him to come into the league and do the same things he is able to do in summer league. It's foolish to expect that from such a young player. 

I was lukewarm on Deng before the draft, but I already see potential and results that exceed what I expected.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: First impression: Deng looks FANTASTIC!*



> Originally posted by <b>Kismet</b>!
> 
> 
> In defense of DMD's observations, I don't think he intended to slight anyone else who has played well this summer. I've watched a good number of these games and until the RMR the one player who impressed me the most was Al Jefferson...not because he had a "monster game," but because he played at a consistently high level, game after game. In fact, of all the teams I've watched, Boston put more pure talent on the floor than anyone else. Ainge has done an exceptional job of restocking his roster with young studs who can play. The downside for them is that it's going to probably take a good long while for all that talent to mature.
> ...


I agree with all of that. I think Deng has looked a like a veteran out there in Summer league play and a lot less mechanical looking than I remember him in his Duke days. He has shown a lot of skill both on and off of the ball and I think he will be a very pleasant surprise for us. That being said, I definitley don't think he has been "the best player in Summer league play" as I think DMD stated. He has been impressive though. Al Jefferson impressed me most too...he really has a good head for the game and some real solid footwork in the post. I knew when I saw Jefferson in HS he was going to be pretty good, it looks like now he could be one of those HS players that has an immediate impact like Stoudemire. Marcus Banks looked pretty good for Boston as well and Kendrick Perkins seems to be developing and might get some pt this year.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: First impression: Deng looks FANTASTIC!*



> Originally posted by <b>ace20004u</b>!
> 
> 
> I agree with all of that. I think Deng has looked a like a veteran out there in Summer league play and a lot less mechanical looking than I remember him in his Duke days. He has shown a lot of skill both on and off of the ball and I think he will be a very pleasant surprise for us. That being said, I definitley don't think he has been "the best player in Summer league play" as I think DMD stated. He has been impressive though. Al Jefferson impressed me most too...he really has a good head for the game and some real solid footwork in the post. I knew when I saw Jefferson in HS he was going to be pretty good, it looks like now he could be one of those HS players that has an immediate impact like Stoudemire. Marcus Banks looked pretty good for Boston as well and Kendrick Perkins seems to be developing and might get some pt this year.


Do not misquote me, ace. What I said was:

"Honestly, his performance last night was the best all around performance I think I have seen in a summer league, although a lot of impressive performances have not been televised."

What you said I said above is not the same thing.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

I'm seeing Luol Deng having a similar NBA game to Larry Johnson

LARRY JOHNSON?????

Are we talking the same LJ from UNLV???

Pre injury,LJ was a freak of nature...

6'5" 260 and explosive...Watch some old clips of LJ and if Deng is anywhere near that,you guys saw something the rest of the scouts missed


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: First impression: Deng looks FANTASTIC!*



> Originally posted by <b>Darius Miles Davis</b>!
> 
> 
> Do not misquote me, ace. What I said was:
> ...


Sorry, not trying to make a big deal out of it or anything. You said he was the best all around performer you have seen in Summer league play and I suggested you watch MORE Summer league games because there are probably like 5 or 6 other guys so far that have easily been more impressive. But it wasn't a dig at you or anything. Nothing personal.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>F.Jerzy</b>!
> Outside of the statistical measurements and looking at Luol Deng with the naked eye - you look at his neck and see the thickness of it and you look at his mid riff and calves - and you can just tell that a guy like that has some filling out to do and has the capacity to do it
> 
> The kid is 19 - he will thicken up as he grows into his adult body - he's no ectomorph like Chandler / Prince . Add to the natural thickening a high end weight training and size building regime and IMO Deng will carry another 30 pounds easily - and he'll need to to play the combo forward that he will ultimately be
> ...


1st of all i didn't say LJ was taller , its the other way around for deng to look similar to LJ , DENG would have to weigh more than him.(6'7 for deng, 6'5 1/2 for johnson)

in shoulder width by the comparison i showed you earlier , deng's shoulder's are not as wide as smith's he just has somewhat longer arms (shoulderwise smith is most likely about 3 inches wider) that was shown in the standing reach to the wingspan , they are almost even in wingspan despite deng having at least 2 inches in arm length ( he also is slightly shorter with a long neck)

he is not wide at all , he is in fact quite thin, he is probably closest to tayshaun prince, they both have have a standing reach of 9' 2.5 inches despite prince being an inch taller, deng's arms are actually longer than prince's, i dont remember prince's wingspan but they are probably close , very close , since prince has basically filled out already . 

you say i'm wrong but all your basis is conjecture the facts say he is built very narrow at the shoulders and has a small frame he is built in a way dissimilar from most nba players, he hill most likely gain his weight in a way similar to players built like him,( Donyell bender, baker, prince) not shaq or fizer they are very wide players, wide everywhere, i've seen shaq's mother , he was never going to be thin .

you talk of his growth potential , but i have never seen anyone from the dinka tribe to be wide at all, their body shape is just on avg. very thin so genetics aren't on his side, in fact they tried desperately to put weight on manute to no avail because he just couldn't do it, he did not have the body for it.


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## Outkast (Jul 20, 2004)

Loul is just great


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## onetenthlag (Jul 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>happygrinch</b>!
> moving on i have been impressed in general with how well his game has translated to summer league play on the perimeter, he has passed and shot well , his defense against the jazz was pretty good but the doubts were somewhat reaffirmed about his quickness in the spur game when the few times he was matched against devin brown he just went by deng.


grinch, not to completely disagree with your post, but I didn't see Devon Brown going past Deng too often. In fact, the one play I definitely remember had Deng staying in front of Brown on a drive through the lane and drawing the offensive foul (Brown had to swat Deng's arm away b/che was about to get stuffed).

From what I remember, Brown blew past Gordon more than Deng. But I agree that both have a ways to go before they're above-average defenders. I'm encouraged by what I've seen though.


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## Machinehead (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>happygrinch</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


And how many people have you seen from the Dinka tribe exactly ?


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## Machinehead (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>truth</b>!
> I'm seeing Luol Deng having a similar NBA game to Larry Johnson
> 
> LARRY JOHNSON?????
> ...


Not "you guys" just me 

I am on my Pat Malone on this one

 

But that's OK as I also am the only one that sees Tyson Chandler as a bigger more effective Kenyon Martin type 

And also the only one that believes Ron Mercer could be a Jim Jackson comeback type who could be a bigger stronger ( but slightly less skilled and effective ) version of Rip Hamilton playing a running/curling mid range game off high screens 

But hey that's just me 

I don't think like normal people 

And yes I am aware that I'm disturbed


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>F.Jerzy</b>!
> 
> 
> And how many people have you seen from the Dinka tribe exactly ?


enough to know you are wrong.


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## ViciousFlogging (Sep 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>happygrinch</b>!
> 
> 
> enough to know you are wrong.


maybe he is, but there's no way that Deng resembles Tayshaun Prince either, even at age 19. And he's most likely going to fill out some more before it's all said and done. He does have a solid frame even if he's not rippling with muscle yet.


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## ChiBullsFan (May 30, 2002)

Dinkas are tall, but not necessarily skinny. Manute Bol is a poor example -- the guy is 7'6. It's tough to be filled out at that height if you don't have gigantism. Can't generalize for all Dinkas based on him.

I find it a little amusing that tha majority of people think Deng looks too much like a PF, and happygrinch for some reason thinks Deng is skinny. The guy is 6'8 225 right now, which is pretty prototypical for a SF. He is still developing muscle on his frame but he already has the weight and wherewithal to bang. Is his size honestly a concern? I just don't see it.










His muscles aren't ripped yet, but his shoulders look sufficiently wide -- in fact wider than average for a SF. Imagine his shoulders with some more muscle built onto them -- he will be physically imposing. Tayshaun Prince? I don't think so.


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## The 6ft Hurdle (Jan 25, 2003)

I want to see Deng jump so high that he could just swing his arms sideways and swat a shot. That would officially make him crazy.


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## Machinehead (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>happygrinch</b>!
> 
> 
> enough to know you are wrong.


Way to answer the question you Dinka Tribe'd - Phd'd Genetic Paleaontologist- National Geographic 'd - United Nationed'd Kevin Baconed Air up There Wunderkind 

Coming from someone who makes a statement such as this equalling in its increduously the credibility of a 14 year old boy who refuses to acknowledge to his mates that he masterbates ... like most other things you warble , sinch , I 'll take what you say with a considerable grain of salt 

Hell .. I'll take an entire Siberian salt mine 

Pass the pepper


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## Machinehead (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ChiBullsFan</b>!
> Dinkas are tall, but not necessarily skinny. Manute Bol is a poor example -- the guy is 7'6. It's tough to be filled out at that height if you don't have gigantism. Can't generalize for all Dinkas based on him.
> 
> I find it a little amusing that tha majority of people think Deng looks too much like a PF, and happygrinch for some reason thinks Deng is skinny. The guy is 6'8 225 right now, which is pretty prototypical for a SF. He is still developing muscle on his frame but he already has the weight and wherewithal to bang. Is his size honestly a concern? I just don't see it.
> ...


Thank you Chi Dookie .

Good photo 

This was my point - outside of sinch's mumbo jumbo and twist and spin on statistical BS .. for simpler folk like me who just looks at a bloke with the naked eye it is easy to see in the fleshiness of his face , neck and shoulders that the preponderence of a bit of baby fat is a sure sign he has the capacity to get a lot more solid with natural maturation combined with the right strength / weight training program 

I guess sinch has it over Tim Grover too who is also of a similar view that his size and explosivity ( when referencing the possibilities of his post game ) will come with proper strength training


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## Machinehead (Jun 12, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: First impression: Deng looks FANTASTIC!*



> Originally posted by <b>Kismet</b>!
> 
> 
> In defense of DMD's observations, I don't think he intended to slight anyone else who has played well this summer. I've watched a good number of these games and until the RMR the one player who impressed me the most was Al Jefferson...not because he had a "monster game," but because he played at a consistently high level, game after game. In fact, of all the teams I've watched, Boston put more pure talent on the floor than anyone else. Ainge has done an exceptional job of restocking his roster with young studs who can play. The downside for them is that it's going to probably take a good long while for all that talent to mature.
> ...


That's all fine 

I just don't think a team like ours can be so rigid in its planning in how we think a guy like Deng will be used

Have a plan for _guidance_ for sure 

But if he is the best player to warrant the minutes at his position .. then for crissakes play the best player and if that's Deng then fine its Deng 

Age be damned

What if we had the same manufactured approach to Carmelo Anthony last year and didn't make him a featured player because we wanted to wet nurse him ?

Not saying Lou is Melo or will have anywhere the same amount of immediate impact .. but if he is showing signs like he is going to be a legit contributor .. then he has left college to play a man's game and earning the Quong .. so for the love of God .. let's not get shackled with a rigid mindset 

Let the love run free 

Free Lou if need be 

Fly be free !

Its nice to babysit Darko on a team like the Pistons 

Unfortunately we don't have that kind of luxury

My personal opinion is that Deng is going to be lot more ready a lot sooner than what some people may think


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>F.Jerzy</b>!
> 
> 
> Way to answer the question you Dinka Tribe'd - Phd'd Genetic Paleaontologist- National Geographic 'd - United Nationed'd Kevin Baconed Air up There Wunderkind
> ...


it sucks when you are wrong and cant do anything about it. 

all you have to do is explain how the numbers are lying . 

how does someone with clearly longer arms, slightly shorter body w/ a long neck but almost identical wingspan is actually a better candidate for a significant weight gain especially when it is a genetic fact that people from his particular region of the world are thinner than usual for us humans .

I am not into conjecture or unwitty comments (sinch, wow how long did it take you to come up with that winner? ) just proof ... you have the nerve to attempt to come at me with this insane banter about 14 year olds masterbating , well i'm sorry you'll have to do a hell of alot better .

but of course i know you cant for all your bluster and conceit you really have nothing to say so i really dont expect to hear from you anymore on this subject.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ChiBullsFan</b>!
> Dinkas are tall, but not necessarily skinny. Manute Bol is a poor example -- the guy is 7'6. It's tough to be filled out at that height if you don't have gigantism. Can't generalize for all Dinkas based on him.
> 
> I find it a little amusing that tha majority of people think Deng looks too much like a PF, and happygrinch for some reason thinks Deng is skinny. The guy is 6'8 225 right now, which is pretty prototypical for a SF. He is still developing muscle on his frame but he already has the weight and wherewithal to bang. Is his size honestly a concern? I just don't see it.
> ...


 i used Bol because he is an obvious example , but the fact remains dinka are known as thin , its not just them its all nilotic tribes maasi , luo, dinkas whatever it a generalization but its a good one because its just so .

i never said his size is a concern i've always said he was avg. sized and because of that i doubt he will be a big time post up threat ... i have an issue with someone saying he will in 2 years be a 260+ Larry Johnson clone .

he probably has the longets arms of any comparitively sized player at his position in the nba (excluding the garnetts and such players who are really 4's ) , but his wingspan is not that long ...its long but not by such a degree that it should be considering his excessively long arms for instance his wingspan, its only a half inch wider than josh smith , who is not considered an exceptionally long player , really he is considered just longer than avg. and josh smith isn't considered exceptionally wide either.I actually remember asking you before about this, i dont believe you gave me answer on it.

people are going to have to accept that sometimes the way a player is built makes him look in ways that are decieving , for instance it was once said that jay williams has "gator arms" , he doesn't, they are avg. for a player his size(something in the neighborhood of 2-3 inches longer than his body) , he just has muscular arms that gave the illusion that they were shorter than they actually were . Deng is barrel chested and he is built in a way that most nba players simply aren't , if he is going to gain a significant amount of weight, it will be in a way that is counter productive . most nba players are flat chested , with abnormally sized arms for their relatively skinny bodies . Deng's body type doesn't stop him from being incredibly quick or explosive (although he isn't ) because there have been players like him who have been , shawn marion comes to mind, but players of his body type when they put on significant weight generally their play suffers until they lose it. (jon bender , vin baker and even former bull donyell marshall) i think most people think he power forward like because he is ungraceful which is something most 3's are.

i think he will be fine physically , just not exceptional in anyway other than arm length. why that raises such ire from people who absolutely no proof to believe anything different is beyond me.


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## MiSTa iBN (Jun 16, 2002)

Whoever compares Luol to Tayshaun will not make a good NBA scout.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

From what I've seen in RMR games so far, Deng reminds me of Elton Brand in many ways, but his game is a bit more away from the basket.

It remains to be seen what Deng does against the real men in the NBA instead of the wannabes of the RMR circuit. But so far, he hasn't done anything to make us doubt his worth as our #7 pick in the draft.


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## Johnny Mac (May 6, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>DaBullz</b>!
> From what I've seen in RMR games so far, Deng reminds me of Elton Brand in many ways, but his game is a bit more away from the basket.


Really? Can you explain the similarities you see in the two players? I like both guys a lot, but I dont see where they are similar really. Both from Duke, both came out as freshmen, both are about 6'8, both have large wingspan and reach. Other than those things, I think they are pretty different. I'd like to hear what you think though.


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## ChiBullsFan (May 30, 2002)

> i used Bol because he is an obvious example , but the fact remains dinka are known as thin , its not just them its all nilotic tribes maasi , luo, dinkas whatever it a generalization but its a good one because its just so .


I don't disagree with your generalization per se, but I'd be careful how you apply it to others. We don't need to stereotype, and all you need to see is a picture of Luol to see that he's an exception to that rule.

Also, I'm not sure it's fair to say that Dinka's necessarily have "slight" builds. Maybe they just appear that way in general because they are like 6'6 on average and probably receive limited nourishment and have no access to a weightroom.



> i never said his size is a concern i've always said he was avg. sized and because of that i doubt he will be a big time post up threat ... i have an issue with someone saying he will in 2 years be a 260+ Larry Johnson clone .


Larry Johnson? No. But I do see him having a body similar to Antoine Walker, a slightly bulkier than normal SF. Deng will probably carry 235 in his prime.



> he probably has the longets arms of any comparitively sized player at his position in the nba (excluding the garnetts and such players who are really 4's ) , but his wingspan is not that long ...its long but not by such a degree that it should be considering his excessively long arms for instance his wingspan, its only a half inch wider than josh smith , who is not considered an exceptionally long player , really he is considered just longer than avg. and josh smith isn't considered exceptionally wide either.I actually remember asking you before about this, i dont believe you gave me answer on it.


I probably didn't respond to this point because I don't like to read too much into measurements. They are meaningless to me. I care about how a player plays. I can see for myself that Deng has wide shoulders (Albeit lacking in muscle at this point) and I know he has long arms and uses them well. That's all I need to know.



> people are going to have to accept that sometimes the way a player is built makes him look in ways that are decieving , for instance it was once said that jay williams has "gator arms" , he doesn't, they are avg. for a player his size(something in the neighborhood of 2-3 inches longer than his body) , he just has muscular arms that gave the illusion that they were shorter than they actually were . Deng is barrel chested and he is built in a way that most nba players simply aren't , if he is going to gain a significant amount of weight, it will be in a way that is counter productive . most nba players are flat chested , with abnormally sized arms for their relatively skinny bodies . Deng's body type doesn't stop him from being incredibly quick or explosive (although he isn't ) because there have been players like him who have been , shawn marion comes to mind, but players of his body type when they put on significant weight generally their play suffers until they lose it. (jon bender , vin baker and even former bull donyell marshall) i think most people think he power forward like because he is ungraceful which is something most 3's are.
> 
> i think he will be fine physically , just not exceptional in anyway other than arm length. why that raises such ire from people who absolutely no proof to believe anything different is beyond me.


I think Deng is a pretty prototypical SF with a definite advantage with his arm length. Not every player has to be a standout physically, especially if you have the game to make up for it.

Some of the physical marvels at his position include ERob, DMiles, Travis Outlaw and Qyntel Woods. I don't think anybody would want these guys over Deng.

When you put it all together, he has a very enviable combination of physical ability and natural skill and certainly the tools to become one of the better SFs in the league.

And that's all I have to say about that.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>John The Cool Kid</b>!
> 
> 
> Really? Can you explain the similarities you see in the two players? I like both guys a lot, but I dont see where they are similar really. Both from Duke, both came out as freshmen, both are about 6'8, both have large wingspan and reach. Other than those things, I think they are pretty different. I'd like to hear what you think though.


They both look less than athletic yet somehow contort their bodies to get off fairly accurate shots in traffic. Both can be counted on to reliably score, though neither dominate a game.

Your similarities are good ones, too, but mine were the impression I got from watching the two play.


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## Machinehead (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>MiSTa iBN</b>!
> Whoever compares Luol to Tayshaun will not make a good NBA scout.


That would be sinch


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## Johnny Mac (May 6, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>DaBullz</b>!
> They both look less than athletic yet somehow contort their bodies to get off fairly accurate shots in traffic. Both can be counted on to reliably score, though neither dominate a game.
> 
> Your similarities are good ones, too, but mine were the impression I got from watching the two play.


Those seem to be fair similarities, I've seen those same things from both guys.


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## JT (Mar 1, 2004)

*the truth.*

Luol Deng? Trevor Ariza will own him in their primes.


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## Sánchez AF (Aug 10, 2003)

Loul deng is good But Ben Gordon is great


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>F.Jerzy</b>!
> 
> 
> That would be sinch


still yappin' and yet no response the question i asked you ...what a surprise .

oh and by the way , trademaster why is it in the proposed knicks-bulls trade it seems everyone but shandon anderson seems to be sticking point when according to you there would be no way paxson would accept him.

it seems the other way around , there wont be a deal if shandon isn't a bull.

i'll give that easier one to wet your teeth on although the answer is the same for both .

you are wrong.


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## Machinehead (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>happygrinch</b>!
> 
> 
> still yappin' and yet no response the question i asked you ...what a surprise .


Which was ?

Its probably my mistake - I just skim read your crap if I can be bothered responding to you in the first place 

OK went back and checked the question which was cased in more subjective wild generalisations to support a meritless argument in the first place when you can tell from looking at the guy that he's going to be thicker 

This , coupled with the fact that I actually find such blowhard arguments based on stats , and thus on a platform to intellectualise a point - that then swings wildly into subjective opinion and is tried to be passed off as fact .. quite boring . The argument and the psychology of inadequacy and penis measurement behind it for its proponent that peddles such pithy portents ... also quite boring . And sad at the same time . 



> oh and by the way , trademaster why is it in the proposed knicks-bulls trade it seems everyone but shandon anderson seems to be sticking point when according to you there would be no way paxson would accept him.


Hey if JY Poop and ERob are jettisoned and we get expiring contracts - I'm down for it as it is a net payroll gain 

Yippee



> it seems the other way around , there wont be a deal if shandon isn't a bull.


And Shandon won't be a Bull if Poop and Robber aren't Knicks and IT isn't munching into a king size sh1t sandwich 



> i'll give that easier one to wet your teeth on although the answer is the same for both .
> 
> you are wrong.


OK . Roger that. Acknowledge . Bow down at your feet . 

There 

Happy ?

make your day ?

The truly sad thing is I probably did


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## JT (Mar 1, 2004)

*they cant handle the rock like shammgod.*

Luol Deng and Linton Johnson also have some of the worst handles I have ever seen. Every time one of them tried to drive or bring the ball up it was a steal. Even Slava Medvedenko has more grip on the ball.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>F.Jerzy</b>!
> 
> 
> Which was ?
> ...


wow all that ...well at least this time you left out a bit about teenages fondling themselves so i guess i'll take that as progress.

before i end this post ,just a little thing i want point out .

i probably wouldn't even have been back on this thread if you didn't decide to refer to me in your usual expected corny fashion (sinch ) its an obvious bait, some could call it harrassment since i actually mentioned that i didn't expect to continue the debate , and since you have as your signature someone who was supended or banned for the that very same offense and apparently you have hard enough feelings about it to put it there and start a club no less, i though i'd mention the obvious irony in case you missed it.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: they cant handle the rock like shammgod.*



> Originally posted by <b>sherako</b>!
> Luol Deng and Linton Johnson also have some of the worst handles I have ever seen. Every time one of them tried to drive or bring the ball up it was a steal. Even Slava Medvedenko has more grip on the ball.


but who can handle the rock like god?

thats the bigger question.


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## Machinehead (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>happygrinch</b>!
> 
> 
> wow all that ...well at least this time you left out a bit about teenages fondling themselves so i guess i'll take that as progress.


I guess you don't understand similies in the context of hyperbole





> i probably wouldn't even have been back on this thread if you didn't decide to refer to me in your usual expected corny fashion (sinch )


Of course you would . Your a dog with a bone 



> its an obvious bait, some could call it harrassment since i actually mentioned that i didn't expect to continue the debate , and since you have as your signature someone who was supended or banned for the that very same offense and apparently you have hard enough feelings about it to put it there and start a club no less, i though i'd mention the obvious irony in case you missed it.


Your only back here with something so pissweak because you haven't got anything else worthwhile to say and this is all you can come with in the assumed seriousness of "my club"

Personally , and for the record - I could not give a square root whether Arenas is back on the board or not 

I just thought the free Arenas club was amusing and the Universe needed some balance

Relax - your so serious .

I'm worried about you


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>F.Jerzy</b>!
> 
> 
> I guess you don't understand similies in the context of hyperbole
> ...


i'm very relaxed , go and reread your own posts on this thread sometime, you are the one calling names(an act of someone who cant cope) because you are the one who cant think of anything better to say , i have my reasons for what i believe and i say them , and your response is always some weak thing that doesn't fly .

i personally worry about anyone who feels the need to take a basketball conversation and take it on scenic route though children playing with themselves. Is your story telling that bad you have to resort to that to keep people interested ....

what is that saying they have here , focus on the posts not the poster or something similar , 

i stick to the thread or a relavent topic , you however when you cant keep up with the conversation feel the need to go elsewhere ...like calling isiah thomas a what was it a pee wee?

:| 

having problems at home son?

dont bring them here.

get some therapy because freud would have a field day with you.


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## RP McMurphy (Jul 17, 2003)

Am I the only one who thinks that message board pissing contests are just a peck of fun? It's like watching a boxing match on HBO, except it's free instead of Pay-Per-View.

This Friday night, it's Happygrinch vs. F. Jerzy!

*LET'S GET READY TO RUMBLE!*


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ArtestFan</b>!
> Am I the only one who thinks that message board pissing contests are just a peck of fun? It's like watching a boxing match on HBO, except it's free instead of Pay-Per-View.
> 
> This Friday night, it's Happygrinch vs. F. Jerzy!
> ...


are you saying you want a piece of me?

:laugh:


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## Machinehead (Jun 12, 2002)

I think this has got a bit fo am not am too Marsha Marsha Marsha for me 

Rock on Grinch


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