# Brown?



## Petey (Aug 23, 2002)

What about a sign and trade this offseason between the Raptors and Wizards.

Swapping resigned Marshall (Pick?) for Brown...

With the Wizards's stable, they would add a VET PF, and you would get to play a still improving Brown (23) with Bosh.

Thoughts?

-Petey


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

i'd do it and run away asap


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

trick said:


> i'd do it and run away asap


 ditto


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## Petey (Aug 23, 2002)

Any thoughts on if the Wizards would consider it?

They really haven't developed him much, and would Marshall be a better fit?

-Petey


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

Petey said:


> Any thoughts on if the Wizards would consider it?
> 
> They really haven't developed him much, and would Marshall be a better fit?
> 
> -Petey


 It depends on what the market value for him is. It's probably pretty low, trade-wise. But there's a chance that someone like Portland or Atlanta will offer him a mad contract. In that case, I wouldn't pull the sign and trade, especially since Bosh plays the same position. Which is another issue - would we want to pay upwards of $7-8 million a year for a bench player (assuming that's what he gets in the sign & trade) who plays the same position as our future star?

Then again, on a talent level, it's pure demolition for the Raptors. Plus we might be able to flip him for another player who fills a need.


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## Petey (Aug 23, 2002)

Budweiser_Boy said:


> It depends on what the market value for him is. It's probably pretty low, trade-wise. But there's a chance that someone like Portland or Atlanta will offer him a mad contract. In that case, I wouldn't pull the sign and trade, especially since Bosh plays the same position. Which is another issue - would we want to pay upwards of $7-8 million a year for a bench player (assuming that's what he gets in the sign & trade) who plays the same position as our future star?
> 
> Then again, on a talent level, it's pure demolition for the Raptors. Plus we might be able to flip him for another player who fills a need.


Don't think Brown and Bosh could play the 4/5 like Marion and Amare do for the Suns?

-Petey


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

Petey said:


> Don't think Brown and Bosh could play the 4/5 like Marion and Amare do for the Suns?
> 
> -Petey


 Well those are different situations, as Bosh and Brown play the same position to begin (Marion is not a PF), but Bosh won't play center, and I'm not sure about Brown playing the 5, although if Antonio Davis could do it then I guess it could work.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

I'm a Kwame fan. I think he still has a lot of potential. I thought that his first seasons in the League were a real difficult situation for him, with Jordan mismanaging the team, and with him being the first high-schooler to be taken #1.

I remember him having a really good game against us a few years ago where he dominated the boards. I know a lot of good rebounders punish us, but he looked really special that night. If we could get part of that, and get it with consistency, we would be in a good way.

The problem with a S&T plus a pick is that we're probably going to have to give him a whopping contract that he really hasn't earned.

Still... the potential of a Bosh/Brown frontline is really huge. They are both super-athletic, long, shotblocking players with good mobility.

But this is all predicated on Washington being willing to part with Brown for Marshall and one of our two picks this year, so one between 8-13. So Donyell at ~$32M for 5 years, maybe, and a pick? Would they really rather have that than re-sign Kwame?

Wizards fans?


And I think he can play centre with guys like Bosh and Araujo on the team with him.


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## Cam*Ron (Apr 13, 2003)

Kwame Brown is a Center.


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## Petey (Aug 23, 2002)

Cam*Ron said:


> Kwame Brown is a Center.


A bit undersized, but I think he can do it.

-Petey


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## superdude211 (Apr 3, 2004)

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/kwame_brown/index.html?nav=page




> Position: F-*C*
> Born: 03/10/82
> Height: 6-11 / 2,11
> Weight: 243 lbs. / 110,2 kg.
> High School: Glynn Academy HS (GA)


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

Can't see Washington going for this unless we offer one of our own picks. I don't think the Denver 2005 pick would be enough


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## One on One (Dec 12, 2004)

Is this some sort of joke? Marshall as in Donyell Marshall? Maybe if he hit like 8 3s every game!


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

I would have to think Kwame is going to get a 10 mill+ starting salary from somebody.

No chance of a sign and trade with the Raps for that kind of money.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

lucky777s said:


> I would have to think Kwame is going to get a 10 mill+ starting salary from somebody.
> 
> No chance of a sign and trade with the Raps for that kind of money.


That's the problem. He would get a big contract, and as a rebuilding team it would be hard to sacrifice our future cap space for an unproven player. I think he will be good, but who knows if he can stay healthy and continue to improve his game.

The only good scenario would be if he signs a reasonable contract, but somebody out there (Atlanta?) is willing to give him a pile to play for them and that really ties our hands.


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## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

lucky777s said:


> I would have to think Kwame is going to get a 10 mill+ starting salary from somebody.
> 
> No chance of a sign and trade with the Raps for that kind of money.



WHAT!? 10 mil a year... for Kwame Brown... that is insane. 

With how inconsistent and unmotivated he has been a contract like that could be one of the worst ever handed out.


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## Petey (Aug 23, 2002)

Numbed One said:


> WHAT!? 10 mil a year... for Kwame Brown... that is insane.
> 
> With how inconsistent and unmotivated he has been a contract like that could be one of the worst ever handed out.


10 million for Brown would make KMart look like a huge bargain... LOL

-Petey


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## TDrake (Jun 8, 2003)

My feeling is that Rob isn't going to take on any attitude problems - I could be wrong, since he signed Rafer to a big contract, but I think that's a different story. He'll take a chance on a guy who's wound a little tight, but doubt he'd make a move for a guy with no/low motivation.

Brown's shown some skills, but he's still a project and IMO not one that'd fit in with the type of team the Raps are trying to put together.


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

I guess some of you missed the signings of Okur, Murphy, Foyle over the summer. And the fact that about a dozen teams in the league are looking for a legit C. Maybe more.

You can pretty much book a 5yr/50+mill contract for Kwame.


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## TRON (Feb 29, 2004)

^those guys (except maybe Foyle) showed what they could do in this league on a consistant basis. Kwame, while still very young has yet to prove that. If he can have a break out contract year (like Eddy Curry), then he will definetely get his 10 Mil a year

Right now based on his play, he shouldn't get more than 8 a year, but I could be wrong as his size and potential could drive up demand for his services

considering we could lose Donyell for nothing, I would take on anything that wouldn't hinder this team financially long term


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

TRON said:


> ^those guys (except maybe Foyle) showed what they could do in this league on a consistant basis. Kwame, while still very young has yet to prove that. If he can have a break out contract year (like Eddy Curry), then he will definetely get his 10 Mil a year
> 
> Right now based on his play, he shouldn't get more than 8 a year, but I could be wrong as his size and potential could drive up demand for his services
> 
> considering we could lose Donyell for nothing, I would take on anything that wouldn't hinder this team financially long term


Happy birthday, Tron.


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## CrookedJ (May 8, 2003)

Just found this:



> The Wizards Kwame Brown is considered a cornerstone and would like to remain with the team, but boldly turned down a contract offer in the fall, reportedly worth $30-million over four years, in hopes of securing a better offer. Brown, however, has missed much of the season with a broken foot and ankle injury, which will not help him at the bargaining table. But the league is full of teams willing to throw millions of dollars at a promising young big man. Seven-footers with Brown's ability remain rare.
> -- St. Petersburg Times


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/scorecard/03/15/truth.rumors.nba/index.html

So he turned down 4 years 30 million (avg 7.5 per season) his agent def. thinks that hes worth 8-10 million on the open market. 

Kwame is worth that much - ( see lucky's post) as other players of roughly equal abilities have received it. On the other hand I wouldn't give him that kind of money, as he really has produced very little compared to his "potential", and has missed most of this year with injuries.

As for Luckys list of big contracst from last year, Brown is better than Foyle and Okur ( well, maybe Okur) and not as good as Murphy. Expect him to get the same kind of deal.

His best season (last season) he got 7.5 Rebs and 11ppg in 30 minutes. Thats fine as a stepping stone, but its not number 1 pick Center numbers, and he is not shotblocker despite my remembrance of him as one (.7 BPG)

This year even when healthy he can't get on the floor with Jamison, Haywood, Jefferies all getting more minutes than him.

So bottom line is unless he plays significantly better, he is putting up similar numbers as Donyell, but banking on the potential to get a huge deal.


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## spuriousjones (Apr 24, 2004)

kwame is good. plays solid post D. has all the physical tools-- he's bigger than his nba list.

barring a long-max deal, kwame plays out his qualifying year, pockets his $6,970,435, becomes an unrestricted free agent in 2006.


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

I'd love to see Kwame in a Raptors uni, and I'm sure they can fit him in as a C here, but that'll really make that Araujo pick look like a waste wouldn't it?


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## spuriousjones (Apr 24, 2004)

Turkish Delight said:


> I'd love to see Kwame in a Raptors uni, and I'm sure they can fit him in as a C here, but that'll really make that Araujo pick look like a waste wouldn't it?


turn it around- a bosh/brown/haffa pivot would be fantastic.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

speedythief said:


> Happy birthday, Tron.


Happy birthday DINOSAUR, too!


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## BBB (Jan 19, 2005)

spuriousjones said:


> turn it around- a bosh/brown/haffa pivot would be fantastic.


I'm sure it'd be fantastic, especially if Brown manages to play up to his potential. But then, wouldn't it still be a tad waste of such a high pick, for Hoffa to come off the bench? 

Anyway, I like the idea of Brown coming over. I'm sure he can handle playing center, and he + Bosh will form a potentially amazing frontcourt.


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## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

For 10 million a year... no thanks. Not going to happen.


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

Numbed One said:


> For 10 million a year... no thanks. Not going to happen.


Definately in agreeance with that comment.
I would be hard pressed to dish out someone like Eddy Curry, who's actually shown some promise this season, not to someone like Kwame Brown who hasn't really shown much of anything while in the NBA. 
As I said earlier, I'd be delighted to see him on our team, but the price might be too high for Babcock to take him.


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

Kwame could definetly play centre. He is as tall as Araujo, with longer arms, and although he does give up strength to him, so do half of the other centres around the league. He's a good rebounder and a very good post defender.

I've always been thinking of possibilities to get Kwame, since Vince was here, because I really think a combonation of Bosh and Kwame would work very well and provide us with a great future in our frontcourt.

All Kwame needs to do is get out of Washington and hes gonna EXPLODE. And yeah by getting Kwame you kind of are giving up in Araujo as a starting, which says a lot seeing as he was the 8th pick. But theres no way we could turn down this deal regardless.


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## Petey (Aug 23, 2002)

BUMP... 

See?

-Petey


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## osman (Jul 29, 2003)

Wow, I guess his career as a Wizard is over...

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/20...2005/05/03/bc.bkn.wizards.brown.ap/index.html


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

Wow. I bet most teams in the League will be inquiring about him this summer. And his pricetag might've fallen from 8-9 a year to 6-8, now. Interesting.


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## Petey (Aug 23, 2002)

speedythief said:


> Wow. I bet most teams in the League will be inquiring about him this summer. And his pricetag might've fallen from 8-9 a year to 6-8, now. Interesting.


As I said I don't think the Wizards will give him a qualifing offer so he'll be unrestricted. His qualifing offer will be for 7+ million. A one year deal at that is better than the MLE. 

-Petey


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## djmyte (Jun 10, 2002)

A Marshall/Kwame swap would benefit both teams. The Wizards are already loaded with talent/potential and the next in becoming a true contender is to acquire good veteran players, which is exactly what Marshall is. He wouldn't take any of the spotlight away from Arenas et al. and would certainly contribute on the court. 8-10 boards, 12-15ppg, decent defense, versatility, mobility.

As for Kwame, obviously he has great physical talent but from what Ive seen he doesn't appear to have it "upstairs". With that said, he'd certainly be our best option at center and would give us some more hope for the future.


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## changv10 (Apr 25, 2005)

The guy gets booed ... AT HOME IN WASHINGTON !
Kwame got suspended for the rest of the playoffs ... BY HIS OWN TEAM !

Sure, he has showned some signs of improvement ... but the kid is still raw. It will take some balls to give this kid a multi million dollar contract starting over 7 million. Risking a nutcase. 

I would prefer trading for Etan Thomas instead of Kwame. He can fill up the middle for us. A big, strong, athletic guy with a good work ethic. Wizards are paying him too much to backup Haywood. They even have Ramos signed for a few more years too.


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## djmyte (Jun 10, 2002)

Agreed. Kwame's deal would have to be reasonable. 4-5mil starting, not 7+.

Don't see the Wiz giving Thomas up, at least I wouldnt if I were them. Decent contract, good player.


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## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

Kwame is a legit 7 footer. He can play the 5, no problem.


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## ballocks (May 15, 2003)

10+ for kwame? i'd seriously doubt that. who knows, some team may come to the market ready to play this summer, but there are many reasons why i don't believe he'll even come _close_ to securing that kind of a deal:

1) i don't think the contracts handed out over the past few years are at all indicative of what we'll see _this_ off-season. i think management teams have slowly begun to realize the paralysis that comes with signing long-term, enormous deals. i think the league overall will begin to exercise some more caution over the next few seasons- and that's with bona fide stars. kwame brown? i don't think he even belongs in the discussion.

2) we're talking about a 7/5 player this season. it doesn't matter to me whether he went #1 a couple of years ago or whatever, just because the man turned down a large deal last summer doesn't necessarily guarantee him a larger deal _this_ summer. i mean, you do have to _earn it_.

3) kwame's also spent a large chunk of this year injured. his numbers have been weak, yes, but his health problems would depress his value even further (imo). 

4) his "intangibles" have just led the wizards to suspend him for the rest of the playoff season. doesn't sound like a 10+ player to me, and it doesn't sound like the wizards consider him all that important themselves. i mean, think about it: they're in the playoffs for the first time in *years* and they decide to suspend a player who's going to "command 10+ this summer"? i doubt it. if he's that good he'd be playing.

5) moreover, the wizards are one of the only teams in a position to sign kwame to a big contract so i don't think there's going to be a bidding war resembling those of the past. the number of franchises with cap room today is less than it's ever been, and the few teams who do have some money to spend are presumably going to be dropping those contracts on bigger names and more valuable players than kwame brown. i mean, i think that's obvious. this isn't the summer of 2002- i think things have changed considerably and the new cba will only go to change them even more.

===

anyway, i think this discussion bothers me because i don't think it'd be the same if kwame were drafted by the raptors, and in the same position this summer with toronto. i think some fans (including those on these boards) would think less of his value if he were effectively the same player but with the raptors instead of the wizards. i don't think this guy will even come close to a max deal for the reasons outlined above- i'd be legitimately surprised if he received more than the MLE- and i think that that opinion would be more accepted (maybe _too_ accepted) if he were playing for the raptors. i think some fans would in that case: a) think far less of his trade value than they do now; b) think he'd "definitely" go elsewhere for < MLE ("just to get out of toronto"). 

that bothers me quite a bit. 

peace


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

Things have changed now. The likelihood of 10 mill per is much, much lower now. Could still be a team or two that considers it though.

Most likely his value falls to the 7-8 range. Not below. Just take a look at what is available on the FA market. Not much. And this kid has all the tools to be an all-star if he can get his head straight.

You can't count on Marshall in any S&T's. Its too much to expect BOTH Kwame and Donny wanting to go to Toronto and Washington respectively.

But a package of Hoffa, EWill, and the DEN pick could do the job. Hoff is all they need as bench big man behind Haywood, Etan, and Jeffries. Plus they have PJ Ramos. EWill gives them another vet leader and defensive player.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

i first red the post thinkin we have no chance in hell of gettin a young player and as usual redin the posts have left me thinkin 

a) yes we could actaully get this player 

b) yet i dnt think we'd even want him


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## Junkyard Dog13 (Aug 9, 2003)

what about stormilre swift instead he does not have attitude problems saleries would likely be in same range.


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## Petey (Aug 23, 2002)

Junkyard Dog13 said:


> what about stormilre swift instead he does not have attitude problems saleries would likely be in same range.


I'm pretty sure Swift didn't play in the playoffs either. Some accuse him of sitting out to increase / protect his FA value this summer.

-Petey


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## KeonBackinTO (May 26, 2003)

Kwame would be great for the Raptors. The Raps should try their best to get him. With Bosh playing beside him it will motivate him to get better. They'll battle each other all year. 

If they don't get him they will pick some undersized C in the draft or a high risk. Might as well try and get Brown and some gaurds in the draft.


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## Chris Taft (Feb 28, 2005)

You guys do realize you have the 7th selection in the draft right? Draft Chris Taft! He is a freak. Play him at center. Then try and get some one like Larry Hughes(if he leaves.. Dont know cap etc.) or a two gaurd with Donyell. You dont want to be the one's to try and fix all the habits/attitude problems that have been created in a toxic enviorment. Dont get me wrong i think brown has talent, but Chris Taft is the real deal.


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## The Mad Viking (Jun 12, 2003)

Chris Taft said:


> You guys do realize you have the 7th selection in the drat right? Draft Chris Taft! He is a freak. Play him at center. Then try and get some one like Larry Hughes(if he leaves.. Dont know cap etc.) or a two gaurd with Donyell. You dont want to be the one's to try and fix all the habits/attitude problems that have been created in day in a toxic enviorment. Dont get me wrong i think brown has talent, but Chris Taft is the real deal.


:no:

Kwame is going to get well over the MLE from a rebuilding team with lots of cap space. He is a perfect fit, because he is young enough to benefit them, has the talent/potential to be desirable, but not a sure thing so contenders won't touch him at > MLE. 

I get the sense Kwame would rather have more $ and more PT than sit for a contender for less $.


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

I wouldn't be surprised to see Kwame end up in Atlanta. 

PHI is going to match any offer for Dalembert - they have to. And CHI will likely match for Curry, who may not even get max offers with his heart condition.

I agree that Kwame wants $$$ and PT.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

Chris Taft said:


> You guys do realize you have the 7th selection in the draft right? Draft Chris Taft! He is a freak. Play him at center. Then try and get some one like Larry Hughes(if he leaves.. Dont know cap etc.) or a two gaurd with Donyell. You dont want to be the one's to try and fix all the habits/attitude problems that have been created in day in a toxic enviorment. Dont get me wrong i think brown has talent, but Chris Taft is the real deal.



Okay, Chris Taft's agent.


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## rapsfan4life (Apr 10, 2004)

Chris Taft said:


> You guys do realize you have the 7th selection in the draft right? Draft Chris Taft! He is a freak. Play him at center. Then try and get some one like Larry Hughes(if he leaves.. Dont know cap etc.) or a two gaurd with Donyell. You dont want to be the one's to try and fix all the habits/attitude problems that have been created in day in a toxic enviorment. Dont get me wrong i think brown has talent, but Chris Taft is the real deal.



Are you his agent?? And i agree i'd rather take a gamble on taft than brown. I am really coming around to TAFT, he can be a sam mitchell pick. If he impresses at workouts than :biggrin: if not and proves that he could care less and really doesn't work hard than :dead:

Edit: BLOWUPTHERAPTORS beat me to the agent comment, :biggrin: i was gonna be the smartass, oh well great minds think alike.


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

no thanks brown been a bust his whole career


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## Junkyard Dog13 (Aug 9, 2003)

taft is lazya :curse: 
brown has issues stromile is a better option, the best is to send fillers like the 2 williams and a 1st rnd pick (eithier the 16 or next years denver) for mags.


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

Taft and Brown are really similar players actually. And both have been knocked for effort, and passion for the game. But I'd rather go for Kwame, although Taft could very likely end up the better player.

I'd be hesitant to give Kwame 8 million a year though, it would be a risky pick up. I'm one that thinks he will blossom into an allstar if given the time and the ball, but his attitude would certainly scare a lot of people off.


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## Junkyard Dog13 (Aug 9, 2003)

I want chandler but the bulls will match all offers now that curry's long term health is a issue.


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