# Whats the word on Luke Jackson?



## DHarris34Phan (Oct 28, 2004)

He was my 2nd favorite player in the NCAA's last year (besides D-Ha of course), and I was just wondering about how he was looking in the preseason and what is his role gonna be in the upcoming season...


P.S. The game that he had this past season against Arizona at home was simply amazing...he singlehandedly kept the Ducks in that game, and he ended up with 42 points....


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## Kapono2Okafor (Oct 20, 2004)

he hasnt looked to good thats all i can say on 2-10 from the field today for 4 points in 24 mins


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## LOYALTY (May 23, 2003)

I think the word on Luke right now is..... ROOKIE. But I think that things will slow down and start to click for him soon.


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## Kapono2Okafor (Oct 20, 2004)

i agree with that too but i have heard all the hype with him being such a PURE shooter and i havnt seen it yet


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

The word is garbage...

Where is VincentVega at now?


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

He has not played well...but he shows flashes every now and then.

He will just need some time to adjust to the pace of the NBA game.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>arenas809</b>!
> The word is garbage...
> 
> Where is VincentVega at now?


BUST.


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## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

Since Luke is a rookie, they are going to give him a chance. But if Luke was a second or third year player playing the way he was, he would be the one going on the IR to start the season.


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## Nevus (Jun 3, 2003)

I'm not worried about it... my expectations for Luke haven't changed. He's going to be very good for the Cavs. And yes, one of the best players of his draft.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Haha, Arenas, you're going to get busted on this one, just like you did with Hinrich. At least I learned my lesson. STAY DOWN!

Another thing to note is that Luke is a big game competitor, so I bet he's using the preseason like Lebron, like Hinrich, to just kind of adjust and feel things out. In Luke Jackson and Verejao, the Cavs have two rookies who should both make the rookie-soph game. And should both make contributions to a playoff team.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>futuristxen</b>!
> Haha, Arenas, you're going to get busted on this one, just like you did with Hinrich. At least I learned my lesson. STAY DOWN!
> 
> Another thing to note is that Luke is a big game competitor, so I bet he's using the preseason like Lebron, like Hinrich, to just kind of adjust and feel things out. In Luke Jackson and Verejao, the Cavs have two rookies who should both make the rookie-soph game. And should both make contributions to a playoff team.


lol...

How did I get busted on Hinrich?

He put up average stats on one of the worst teams in the league.

Barbosa, Ridnour, take your pick of young guys that given the same role, that would have done the same.

How many big shots did Kirk hit last year?

How many games did he single handedly or play a huge in role in the few victories the Bulls had?

How many nights did he get lit up more than he "stopped" people?

Everyone associated with the Bulls knows my stance, and my stance is made off actual facts and knowledge and the homerism gets smacked to the side like Luke's jumpshot.

I wouldn't even put Luke in Varejao's category yet, Varejao has actually shown something, and he's a bargain at the contract he got.

Too bad the Celtics didn't bite on that trade, because I'm sure they rather have Jiri, someone who can actually spell defense, than Luke.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

You sure are dissing a guy pretty hard for him not having even played his first NBA game.

Hinrich, Ridnour, Barbosa...all are solid to good players. They are the type of players you want to get when you are trying to movie forward as a franchise. The Cavs didn't need to knock a ball out of the park, they've already got their superstar. it's just about putting solid pieces around him. And between Jackson and Pavlovic, they are bound to come up with at least one good wing to go with Lebron. Whether you like it or not.

Luke Jackson is going to be a very good player. And a key component of the Cavs future. Like it or not. Dissing him so harshly this early just seems foolish. You can't honestly think he's going to play like he has in the preseason for the rest of his career?


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>arenas809</b>!
> 
> 
> lol...
> ...


I'll bust you on Deng being about as good as Eric Williams though!


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## AZwildcats4 (Feb 9, 2004)

Luke will be a great player. He has every tool you could ask for.


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## RP McMurphy (Jul 17, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>futuristxen</b>!
> You sure are dissing a guy pretty hard for him not having even played his first NBA game.


Since when is it wrong to think a player will be a bust?

You've posted a bunch of times that you think Sebastian Telfair will be a star, he hasn't played his first NBA game either. Why is it that if a guy is a rookie, it's OK to think he'll be great, but it's not OK to think he'll suck?


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>RP McMurphy</b>!
> 
> 
> Since when is it wrong to think a player will be a bust?
> ...


Thinking a guy is going to be a star is much more positive than just going around *****ing about a guy because you think he's going to be a bust. From experience the latter comes back to bite you a lot more than the former.


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## Kapono2Okafor (Oct 20, 2004)

i just went to their last preseason game and he impressed me he was smoooth didnt take 2 many shot but when he did they were good shots


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>arenas809</b>!
> The word is garbage...
> 
> Where is VincentVega at now?


How was Kirk Hinrich before the season started last year?

I don't expect a response.


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> 
> 
> BUST.


Ben Gordon.


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## 4-For-Snapper (Jan 1, 2003)

I agree with the general consensus that he just needs time to adjust. He has NBA game. He's proven that. He just needs to get used to the mental/physical aspects of the league before he assumes his role on the team.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>VincentVega</b>!
> 
> 
> How was Kirk Hinrich before the season started last year?
> ...


He was garbage before the season started, he improved, but you act like he had a all-star year.

Newsflash, he did not.

Why is Kirk Hinrich the bar you've set for like every incoming player that you dick ride?

There's the response you weren't expecting, unlike some people I don't duck and hide from a debate.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>VincentVega</b>!
> 
> 
> Ben Gordon.


Puhlease. If the Bulls didn't draft Gordon, he would be starting right now at his right position, point guard. 

You propped up crappy *** Luke Jackson all draft and he has not even performed like dog crap, not during summer league, not preseason and he already received his first DNP. I think you will be wrong big time and it's so bad, that you journeyman Lucious Harris starting over him.

Lucious Harris has never been a starter his entire career, except when someone gets hurt. Jackson comes into the easiest situation to be put in, playing off of Lebron and he looks like garbage. I'll be watching his progress, but maybe you'll stop propping up avg. players from now on.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

I'm done on Luke Jackson...

The DNP's in the boxscores make my argument for me...


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Just remember Scott Williams played for two minutes tonight.

Just to compare and constrast for a moment here. 

Sasha Pavlovic and journeymen Lucious Harris and Ira Newble are playing over All-America Wunderkind Luke Jackson.

Now those precious overrated HS players: 

JR Smith, Josh Smith, Dwight Howard, Shaun Livingston, Al Jefferson all played in their first games.

Two games, two DNP's for Jackson. How many will he get this year? 30+ LOL.


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## RP McMurphy (Jul 17, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>futuristxen</b>!
> Thinking a guy is going to be a star is much more positive than just going around *****ing about a guy because you think he's going to be a bust. From experience the latter comes back to bite you a lot more than the former.


That's because when a player succeeds, the people who doubted him have no choice but to admit they were wrong. But when a player is a bust, the people who thought he'd be a star absolutely refuse to give up on him, even if after five or six years in the league he still sucks.

Exhibit A, the village idiot over at the RealGM Bulls Board, I won't mention any names but his username rhymes with Owl Feather Man, still insists that Marcus Fizer is going to be a better player than Kenyon Martin.

You can jump on the bandwagon of every single lottery pick if it makes you happy, but fact is, most of them are going to disappoint you, even if it takes you years and years to admit you were wrong about them.




> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> Now those precious overrated HS players:
> 
> JR Smith, Josh Smith, Dwight Howard, Shaun Livingston, Al Jefferson all played in their first games.


I have to hand it to you. You put your credibility on the line and made some bold statements about this high school class. It's too early to say for sure, but right now it would appear that you were correct.

As for Luke Jackson, he's proving to be worth the same marginal first round pick that he was projected to be worth back in February and March. Then some NBA scouts as well as many posters on this board, got all excited about his scores at the combine, and he moved into the lottery. Jackson is yet another example of why scouts shouldn't get too worked up about athletic ability, they should pay more attention to basketball skills. And regardless of Jackson's combine scores, in basketball games, he can't play defense. I know one poster who's been saying that for months.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>RP McMurphy</b>!
> And regardless of Jackson's combine scores, in basketball games, he can't play defense. I know one poster who's been saying that for months.


Gotta love Artestfan...


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## Johnny Mac (May 6, 2003)

Man, I really thought Jackson would be solid this year, but theres absolutely no reason to be getting DNPCD's behind Harris, etc. What a wasted pick for the Cavs.


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## The OUTLAW (Jun 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> Just remember Scott Williams played for two minutes tonight.
> 
> Just to compare and constrast for a moment here.
> ...


I'm pretty sure that Boozer didn't play much in his first few games either. I'm pretty sure that this just goes to show, that it's not how you start but how you finish.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>The OUTLAW</b>!
> 
> 
> I'm pretty sure that Boozer didn't play much in his first few games either. I'm pretty sure that this just goes to show, that it's not how you start but how you finish.


Are you really comparing 2nd round pick Boozer, who should have went higher, because of the skills he had, to top 10 pick Luke Jackson? 

Shouldn't a 22 year old, NCAA All-American, who is supposedly ready to play, beat out weak competition in Harris, Newble and Pavlovic?


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

This is way too early to tell if anybody is going to be bust or not from this rookie class. Some players actually thrive in the NBA right off the bat others take awhile. Some of those who thrive early on sometimes flatten out. Nowitzki sucked his first year for example, Baron Davis barely played, and remember Joe Johnson looks like a stud now despite looking lost when he was given the SG spot in Boston his first year. Other players look great their first year and great things are expected them (Darius Miles is the first to come to mid) only to not improve or have their performance actually decline. It doesn't matter if you went to college or not you need patience with any rookie. Jackson was hurt during much of the preseason and it really slowed him down but I wouldn't call him a bust unless he sits on the bench the rest of the year. I still think he'll turn into a good player


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>arenas809</b>!
> 
> 
> He was garbage before the season started, he improved,


In regards to this thread, that's all I needed to hear.

Thank you.


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> 
> 
> Puhlease. If the Bulls didn't draft Gordon, he would be starting right now at his right position, point guard.
> ...


Marcus Banks.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>VincentVega</b>!
> 
> 
> Marcus Banks.


Tsk, tsk. You can never accept that you are wrong, so you throw two separate things together. Banks is still going to be a good player. Jackson on the other hand, hmmm...

I didn't expect you to actually respond with any real insight.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>VincentVega</b>!
> 
> 
> In regards to this thread, that's all I needed to hear.
> ...


lol...

Classic Vega....

All you need to hear is what you want to hear, then you duck out...


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## garnett (May 13, 2003)

what seems more fair to you people.. giving this guy a CHANCE (believe it or not), or deciding so quickly that he's a bust? the lot of you know-it-all posters have given him TWO nba games to prove himself.. nice work.


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## Kapono2Okafor (Oct 20, 2004)

he hasnt played yet has he i know he didnt in the first game i dont think so in the 2nd


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## 4-For-Snapper (Jan 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>garnett</b>!
> what seems more fair to you people.. giving this guy a CHANCE (believe it or not), or deciding so quickly that he's a bust? the lot of you know-it-all posters have given him TWO nba games to prove himself.. nice work.


:yes:


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## Mongolmike (Jun 11, 2002)

He got in for garbage minutes tonight. He was running around crazy eyed. They say the biggest adjustment is to the speed of the game.. it's much faster than what college kids are used to, and Luke showed this. 

He tried to run around a pick and was late getting to his man the shooter, he hoisted a long jumper and missed and the ball rebounded over the back of the backboard, he mostly just passed the ball around the perimiter, and I think he took a second shot and missed it too. 

First pro game minutes, the kid was nervous, and didn't get a long enough run to try to settle in. Silas is right to not throw this kid into serious game type situations yet. He is not ready. 

But, for all the posters who say he is a bust, or the Cavs should have Luke in rather than Lucious Harris... you're wrong on both counts. It's idiotic to say anything about busting when a kids only had 3 minutes. And if anything, Sasha should be getting more run than Lucious, or DaJaun should when he comes off IR.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

This is not a very complex argument...

Wackson, can't get burn before...

Harris...journeyman, hot garbage
Newble...journeyman, funky garbage
Pavlovic...younger than Luke is

What does that say about Wack?

Meanwhile, Livingston plays in crunchtime for the Clips, Deng is ballin, Iggy starts (remember that bull**** about Luke lighting Iggy up in predraft workouts?), the list can go on and on.

You wasted your #10.

Why not concede to that, and move on?


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>arenas809</b>!
> 
> 
> Meanwhile, Livingston plays in crunchtime for the Clips, Deng is ballin, Iggy starts (remember that bull**** about Luke lighting Iggy up in predraft workouts?), the list can go on and on.
> ...


None of those guys you just mentioned were available at the Cavs pick.

How's Kirk Snyder doing? How's Telfair doing? How's Jameer Nelson doing?


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

How's J.R. Smith doing?

At least he's getting burn...

Ariza?

All the guys you've listed are at least getting burn...

Snyder would be playing if he were a Cav, look who's behind in Utah.

Telfair is sitting behind Van Exel and Stoudamire in Portland..

Please don't make the argument so easy.

Please refer back to my post outlining who is front of Wackson, and tell me, if he's that good, why is he getting DNP's?


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## Larry Hughes for Retirement (Jul 5, 2004)

Arena just because your a mod doesnt mean your arguements are golden and our's are weak.... Your arguement about Snyder would be playing if he was on the cavs, how can you say that thats just your thoughts. 

Luke has been giving 2 min in the NBA to prove himself and he is behind Lebron who leads the NBA in minutes played. And we have 3 SG's and 4 when wags comes back. He is bringing him along slowly. Silas does this with every rotation.

Can i get any love from a loyal cavs fan around here ?

Does Silas not have weird rotations and he is just bring Luke along slowly. No reason to rush him in now we are playing well enough ( should have beat pacers ).


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

I'm not a mod....

Who wants to answer the damn question?

If Wackson is good...

Why is he racking up DNPs?

He's good but he can't play in front of Harris, Newble, or Pavlovic?

Pavlovic came into camp out of shape, shooting airballs and ****, go read the Plain-Dealer article, "Pavlovic Finding Training Camp Woes"...

Then come back and give an intelligent response based on facts and leave the homerism out of it.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>arenas809</b>!
> I'm not a mod....
> 
> Who wants to answer the damn question?
> ...


His name is Luke Jackson. Not Wackson.

Dumbass.


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## Larry Hughes for Retirement (Jul 5, 2004)

Who wants to answer the damn question?

If Wackson is good...

Why is he racking up DNPs?

He's good but he can't play in front of Harris, Newble, or Pavlovic?



IF you would listin or even read, i just anwsered that. They are bringing him along slowly and thats the way silas subs. He Doesnt toss the young guys right out into the mix.


Just read what i type and you will find my anwser !!!!!!!!!!Blue


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>futuristxen</b>!
> 
> 
> His name is Luke Jackson. Not Wackson.
> ...


I call him Wackson because he sucks, you obviously didn't get a very obvious diss/joke.

Now who is the dumbass.

I'm sure there's a Lebron thread you need to go to so you can do some more dick riding, go handle that, then come back.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>LBJ to LJ for 3</b>!
> Who wants to answer the damn question?
> 
> If Wackson is good...
> ...


This is the same craptastic response you gave on AIM, and it still doesn't hold water...

He's being brought along slowly, yet a player younger than he is, Pavlovic, at least gets some kind of burn.

Let's not act like Pavlovic is some 10 year vet, he's been in the league a year and didn't play heavy minutes.

If the kid is good, you play him, period, and the Cavs are far from "set" at the 2 position so the minutes are there, he is just not good enough to get them.

Let's not compare this situation to Snyder who is sitting behind Harpring and Giricek, and Telfair, who would have been a good pick for the Cavs, is sitting behind Stoudamire and Van Exel.

Big difference.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>LBJ to LJ for 3</b>!
> 
> IF you would listin or even read, i just anwsered that. They are bringing him along slowly and thats the way silas subs. He Doesnt toss the young guys right out into the mix.
> 
> ...


My question is, Why would you bring along slowly a guy who was billed as NBA ready? I mean the people in front of Jackson, suck at the 2 spot (not including Pavlovic). The guy is simply not even playing and he is 22 years old. That says something right there. Cavs put journeymen in front of him, because he's not ready. Then what the heck was his 4 years of college for? Did they do anything?


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> 
> 
> My question is, Why would you bring along slowly a guy who was billed as NBA ready? I mean the people in front of Jackson, suck at the 2 spot (not including Pavlovic). The guy is simply not even playing and he is 22 years old. That says something right there. Cavs put journeymen in front of him, because he's not ready. Then what the heck was his 4 years of college for? Did they do anything?


Paul Silas isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer. He's not playing Anderson much either even though Anderson has proved himself to be better than Traylor.

The man is starting Ira Newble. That should tell you a lot right there. He's doing his typical Paul Silas thing.

And Arenas, you're the one who didn't get a very obvious joke. To clear it up, I was making fun of you for being the epitome of what the kid's call lame. Wackson? I mean c'mon. Pull my dick out of your brain and stop posting like some sort of pre-pubescent ****tard.


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## Larry Hughes for Retirement (Jul 5, 2004)

Its only the 5th game. Your arguement does not hold water because its been 5 games. If this was after the all-star break and such i would agree with you.

But until then your arguement does nothing. If you were a cavs you would understand that silas sometimes doesnt have the smartest rotation in the world and never has.


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## -33- (Aug 6, 2002)

Honestly Jackson is better than Telafair. Telfair can't shoot. All he can do is pass. Look were that got Pepe Sanchez. I bet Telafair is out of the league before Jackson. No one expected Jackson to come in and contribute right away. He was drafted to be a solid 3rd option after Bron and Z. Obviously you are watching too much fake bball on your ps2 and not enough real bball to know that Jackson is damn good. Did you watch him at Oregon? Did you even know that is where he is from?


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Shaq_Diesel</b>!
> Honestly Jackson is better than Telafair. Telfair can't shoot. All he can do is pass. Look were that got Pepe Sanchez. I bet Telafair is out of the league before Jackson. No one expected Jackson to come in and contribute right away. He was drafted to be a solid 3rd option after Bron and Z. Obviously you are watching too much fake bball on your ps2 and not enough real bball to know that Jackson is damn good. Did you watch him at Oregon? Did you even know that is where he is from?


Why wouldn't you expect a 22 year old NCAA All-American, top 10 NBA pick to not contribute? You make no sense. Go back to sleep.


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## Mongolmike (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Shaq_Diesel</b>!
> Honestly Jackson is better than Telafair. Telfair can't shoot. All he can do is pass. Look were that got Pepe Sanchez. I bet Telafair is out of the league before Jackson. No one expected Jackson to come in and contribute right away. He was drafted to be a solid 3rd option after Bron and Z. Obviously you are watching too much fake bball on your ps2 and not enough real bball to know that Jackson is damn good. Did you watch him at Oregon? Did you even know that is where he is from?


Excellant post Shaq... you get stars from me. 

Unfortunately, way, way too many people do expect a first rounder to come in and change the game. They obviously have never played organized sanctioned basketball, or they'd realize that any new player, or freshman on a H.S. or college team or rookie at the pro level is not gonna get major run UNLESS they are freaking outstanding. That is not to say that they won't be outstanding after 2 or 3 years... but expectations put on kids coming to the pros from college is unrealistic... and it doesn't matter if you're 19, 20, or 22.... there is still a huge transition, AND a pecking order..... and 5 games into the season and people are already getting labeled with "bust"..... clueless.


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Mongolmike</b>!
> 
> 
> Excellant post Shaq... you get stars from me.
> ...


Good post.

Factor in the "Silas" effect, and you have your reason Luke get's no PT.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

These are the players all drafted after Jackson, who have at least been playing so far:

Robert Swift (12)
Al Jefferson (15)
Josh Smith (17)
JR Smith (18)
Jameer Nelson (20)
Beno Udrih (28)
David Harrison (29)
Anderson Varejao (30)
Jackson Vroman (31)
Chris Duhon (38)
Trevor Ariza (43)
Bernard Robinson Jr. (45)


Now if this doesn't concern you at all, that all of these guys have played more minutes than Jackson through 5 games, nothing will.

Okay, I'll come back at mid-season and ask you about Jackson, although I'll keep watching on my league pass to see if he ever sniffs the court. You got second round picks like Trevor Ariza and Duhon doing more than him. Unbelievable.

Edit: to add Tony Allen (24)


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> These are the players all drafted after Jackson, who have at least been playing so far:
> 
> Robert Swift (12)
> ...


Game, Set, Match.


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## RP McMurphy (Jul 17, 2003)

Don't forget Tony Allen HKF. His defense is seriously impressive. He will be better than Luke Jackson as well.

No one is saying that Cleveland should give up on Jackson already. It just seems stupid to say in the beginning that he's being drafted because he's NBA-ready, and then when his results don't live up to that label, to say that everyone knew all along that he was a project.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>RP McMurphy</b>!
> Don't forget Tony Allen HKF. His defense is seriously impressive. He will be better than Luke Jackson as well.
> 
> No one is saying that Cleveland should give up on Jackson already. It just seems stupid to say in the beginning that he's being drafted because he's NBA-ready, and then when his results don't live up to that label, to say that everyone knew all along that he was a project.


I forgot about Allen, but his minutes are sporadic so I didn't want to list him, but I'll put him in as well. 

Your last point, is exactly what I'm talking about. All I heard was that he was NBA ready, but I sure as hell don't see it. Hinrich was NBA ready, Jarvis Hayes was NBA ready, Josh Howard was NBA ready last year, even Ridnour was NBA ready.


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## whiterhino (Jun 15, 2003)

All I can say is I'm SSSOOOOO glad that the Cavs took Jackson at 10 so that he didn't fall to 15 because rumor had it that the Celts planned to take him if he fell to us and we got AL JEFFERSON at 15 instead:grinning: Yeah baby, Al Jefferson!!!!


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## Mongolmike (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> These are the players all drafted after Jackson, who have at least been playing so far:
> 
> Robert Swift (12)
> ...


No. This doesn't concern me at all. Those stats are irrelevant.

Now I suspect at this point you are throwing your hands up in the air, rolling your eyes, ready to proclaim my ignorance.... but the TRUTH of the matter is that you are 100% off-base. You're trying to prove that Luke Jackson is a bust after 5 games into his rookie season when he's only been on the floor 3 minutes. I could successfully argue this does not make him a bust, and I'm confident that most knowledgable people (both posters and experts) would say to even suggest a kid is a bust after 5 games is laughable... but... that isn't the point.

THE point is NOT about Luke Jackson. THE point IS about Lucious Harris, Eric Snow, and DaJaun Wagner.

Let me rephrase this, and then explain it for you. Luke Jackson's development is NOT the focus of Paul Silas and the Cleveland Cavs at this point in the season. The cohesion and development of Lucious Harris, Eric Snow and the soon to be activate DaJaun Wagner IS the focus. Luke Jackson is a practice player at this point. Garbage time. A non-entity. People who follow the Cavs realize this.

Paul Silas's #1 priority is NOT to develop Jackson. His #1 priority is to win games. He will do this his way, which is to develop his rotation of players he thinks can best make his team successful NOW. 

The following players would be ahead of Jackson in Silas's rotation: LeBron, Lucious Harris, Eric Snow, DaJaun Wagner, Ira Newble. See if you can figure out what these 5 have in common.... tic....tic....tic.....tic.... no? THEY ARE ALL VETERANS. JACKSON IS AN UNTESTED ROOKIE. 4 of the first 5 Cavs games have been against playoff caliber (if not Championship contending) teams: Ind., Miami, Phox, Milw (and Atlanta). And you really expect Silas to throw a rookie into any of those close games which he felt were winnable? Do you really believe that? If you do, then you must really think that Jackson has tremendous potential to be thrust into those situations this early in his career....

Here's another point that bolsters my point of view, and further nullifies your unrelenting and hostile attack on a kid who has only played 3 minutes... the Cavs have 2 starters and 3 main subs (all vets) who were not on the team last year: Lucious Harris and Drew Gooden as starters, Tractor Traylor, Eric Snow, and Scott Williams as subs. In following Silas's #1 priority (to win games... unless you'd like to argue that point).... Silas likes vets, and he needs to meld these new pieces with the old and try to settle on a rotation first. He wants to win games NOW... he has no minutes to waste on trying to fit in a rookie in a position of depth AT THIS EARLY POINT IN THE SEASON.

A third point which you convieniently overlook.... minutes available. Surely you are aware that LeBron is leading the league in minutes played. Silas has confidence in Ira Newble at SF as a defensive player. So when Ira comes in... where do you think LeBron goes? No... he doesn't play center. 2nd guess... no, he doesn't go back to PG. He goes to SG. In fact, James started at SG vs Phox, with Ira starting at SF. And Silas is still trying to get veteran Lucious Harris up to speed at SG.... AND he is still using Eric Snow and Jeff McInnis in the backcourt at the same time. Exactly how many minutes do you think are available?
(Whether you agree with Silas's rotations/experiments/assigned minutes or not is immaterial. Your wishes or desires are meaningless. Silas's wishes and desires account for everything. Would I like to see Luke and Varejeo get some run? Sure. Do I think they are busts if they aren't at this point? Of course not. That would be stupid.)

All in all... for whatever reason you want to vilify Jackson.... I'm saying those attacks are irrelevant. Jackson is NOT the focus of the Cavs or Paul Silas at this point. Silas doesn't care what other rookies are playing or not playing or how many minutes they are playing. I don't think he cares how few minutes Jackson and Anderson are getting... but I guarantee that he is completely concerned with how many minutes McInnis, LeBron and Z are getting. Can you see the true point here? Winning games, and using his veteran squad of Eric Snow, Ira Newble, LeBron James, DaJaun Wagner, and Lucious Harris at the SG and SF spots is HIS focus. He leaves bashing/rating/labeling rookies to internet fools who don't know what they're talking about.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Why would I roll my eyes at what you wrote? 

If the guy was good enough to play, wouldn't he be playing. I mean he "was" NBA ready was he not? I guess he isn't. 

No need for me to roll my eyes. Don't be mad cause you drafted a dud, which isn't surprising given the history of the Cavs outside of Lebron James. I mean Diop and Wagner haven't developed worth a damn.

Internet fools, haha. Good one. Why are you getting so mad? Wagner hasn't played a game yet, but he's affecting Jackson. LOL. Is he even with a team or healthy right now? Pavlovic has played more than him. 

So I guess they are bringing Pavlovic along slowly too? :sigh:


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> 
> 
> So I guess they are bringing Pavlovic along slowly too? :sigh:


They are. Pavlovic barely plays either.
Same with Anderson.

I'm just not going to label a player a bust who really hasn't seen his first NBA comp yet.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>RP McMurphy</b>!
> Don't forget Tony Allen HKF. His defense is seriously impressive. He will be better than Luke Jackson as well.
> 
> No one is saying that Cleveland should give up on Jackson already. It just seems stupid to say in the beginning that he's being drafted because he's NBA-ready, and then when his results don't live up to that label, to say that everyone knew all along that he was a project.


It's only 5 games into the season. Who knows what his role on this team will end up being?

He seems like a nice enough kid, I don't know what he's done to draw all of this ire. He isn't out there stinking it up or anything. There's literally nothing to talk about with this guy right now, yet there's this huge thread about him.


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## Mongolmike (Jun 11, 2002)

Mad? Pfft... we're arguing two different points. You want to bash a rookie who hasn't played yet, I'm just telling you the truth of the situation which you refuse to accept. I'm not Paul Silas, but what he wants is pretty obvious... or at least I thought it was to most.

I will give you this tho... I forgot about Sasha. Thank you. That even FURTHER validates my point. There is another "sorta" veteran who will get more run, and adds more depth to the spot Jackson would get minutes for. Yes, Sasha will get more minutes than Jackson for now. In your book, that makes Jackson a bust, huh? Why would your point of view make me mad? It doesn't. I think you're looking rather foolish actually. Keep arguing with me tho... you're helping my case and further undermining your own. Nice..... :laugh:


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## Mongolmike (Jun 11, 2002)

*...*

How many think that Hong Wrong Fooey was all over the Pistons forum last year arguing that Darko was a bust? Or was all over Jermaine O'Neal or Lamar Odom that they were busts (or busted as the case may be...). It amazes me that every year people expect every rookie to come in and perform like there was no transition between college and the pro level. Again, I say it must stem from ignorance, cause they surely have not been in or close to the actual experience. Even at the High School level... how many true freshmen actually even make the varsity? But, each to their own delusion.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

*Re: ...*



> Originally posted by <b>Mongolmike</b>!
> How many think that Hong Wrong Fooey was all over the Pistons forum last year arguing that Darko was a bust? Or was all over Jermaine O'Neal or Lamar Odom that they were busts (or busted as the case may be...). It amazes me that every year people expect every rookie to come in and perform like there was no transition between college and the pro level. Again, I say it must stem from ignorance, cause they surely have not been in or close to the actual experience. Even at the High School level... how many true freshmen actually even make the varsity? But, each to their own delusion.


Go check the posts dude and do a search if you really want to know. I stick to my guns always. Hong Wrong Fooey, that was good one. Nerd. :|


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

Ignorance is bliss.

Pavlovic played 19 hours of NBA basketball last year and he's a veteran?

 

I think we've made a very fundamental argument here, I'll make it again so maybe a light comes on and you get it.

Luke Jackson as a #10 pick in the draft right now is not good enough to play in front of Lucious Harris, Ira Newble, and Aleksander Pavlovic.

That being said, Luke is garbage.

If he was good enough to play right now, why would he not play?

They're going to bring him along slowly when all they have in front of him is 2 journeymen and a player younger than he is?

Why even bring up Dajuan?

He's injured, he has nothing to do with anything right now.

The Cavs aren't set at the 2, it's not like minutes aren't there, you've had 2 overtime games, someone has needed a 2 minute spell and Silas isn't confident in the kid to put him out there?

Ya he sucks.

Pavlovic isn't playing much either, but he could at least tell you how the floor feels.


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## Mongolmike (Jun 11, 2002)

*Re: Re: ...*



> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> 
> 
> Nerd. :|


roflmao... ooooooo.... he called me a name....lol. Now who's getting mad....lol. For your ignorant information, I believe Jackson got stashed on the IR list.... so there you go... he must be trash.....lol. Man, are you clueless. If I really cared, I'd figure out what team you support, so I could go into your forum and spout stupid stats that have no meaning to what the team is actually trying to accomplish.... nah.... I wouldn't and don't... I could care less what team you support. If you support them as poorly as your arguments here....lol...whatever.

For your attatched at the brain twin urenas809.... Wagner has nothing to do with this right now? Come on man.... Wagner has been the most talked about player other than LeBron James over the last two years, and you don't think he has anything to do with Luke Jackson's playing time? To both of you, if you were arguing if Wagner was a bust or not... that's one thing, and you'd have a lot of support both ways from this forum... but the feeble argument that just because Jackson's a four year college kid, and that some thought he was NBA ready... and he's clearly not..... that's your best argument? Even Silas (the man who determines who plays and who don't) feels Jackson isn't ready, that he'll only get in at garbage time, but that in a year or two either him or Sasha will be the starting 2 guard. So you two just carry on with your opinion. As a Cavs fan, I'm happy we got him, the kid will be fine, and your opinions hold no sway. Just don't call me anymore names because I is so feared of you. There are sooo many tough guys on the internet....lol.


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## Mongolmike (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>arenas809</b>!
> Ignorance is bliss.
> 
> Pavlovic played 19 hours of NBA basketball last year and he's a veteran?
> ...


Again, I see reading comprehension is not one of your strong suits. Go back and read my post, and I'm pretty sure I said "sorta" veteran. He's a veteran in years, but not in playing time. Guess you missed that part. But then in your last paragraph you say that at least he could tell you how the floor feels.... while you are contradicting yourself there, tell me.... how many minutes has Sasha gotten this year??? I don't exactly know, but I'm gonna guess around 10 total.... yeah... he's really burnin' up the stats sheet too. Snow, Harris, LeBron, Ira, and Wagner will be the focus. Next.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Mongolmike</b>!
> how many minutes has Sasha gotten this year??? I don't exactly know, but I'm gonna guess around 10 total.... yeah... he's really burnin' up the stats sheet too.


Pavlovic has played 31 minutes this year...

Jackson has played 3....

You keep bringing up Wagner, Wagner has not played at all this season, how is he a factor in any CURRENT decisions?

Ok Luke you can't play, because Wags, whenever he comes back, is going to, so we can't have you in there for now, we're just gona play 2 scrubs and a kid who's younger than you.

This is a basic argument, and YOU not being able to (ultimately refusing to) see it shows that your IQ must be equal to Luke's playing time.

Homerism it's craptastic!


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

Luke's game footage...


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## LBJthefuturegoat (Nov 13, 2004)

*Injured List?*

They just put LJ on the injured list so maybe his knee was what was up with his pt.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

*Re: Injured List?*



> Originally posted by <b>LBJthefuturegoat</b>!
> They just put LJ on the injured list so maybe his knee was what was up with his pt.


Ya, kind of forgot that EVERY player that goes on the injured list is actually injured.

When did he injure it, during warmups?


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>VincentVega</b>!
> 
> 
> Ben Gordon.


I don't think ole Benny boy is a bust now. He's the Bulls best player. :laugh: :laugh:


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## Larry Hughes for Retirement (Jul 5, 2004)

We are a team winning the Central Division by far the best Division in the east and Silas as you know likes the Vets.

We traded Ricky Davis and Chris Mihm - for - Wisely old vets like Eric Williams and Tony Battie..... 

Its not all about the talent or the boxscore that say someone is a bust/terrible/awful. Bron/J-Mac/Z and gooden can score the basketball. We dont need Ira Newble putting up 10+ points a game we he a role player and does his job great. 

He plays D and rebounds, harris comes of the bench and he can play d and rebound and add an outside threat.

The 76ers are terrible so Iggie is seeing time, Telfair see's late not important minutes. Atleast he did when the cavs smoked then at home the other week.

Remember this pick wasnt top 3, this wasnt D. Wade or Lebron James who are supposed to change your team. This was the 10th pick, this was a role player at best until he picks up the speed of the game. No one thought Luke would carry us to a title this year.

Silas must be doing something right considering we are 16-11 and winning the Central and 2nd best in the East. 

Is Josh Childress a bust ?
Is Darko a bust ?
Was Kirk Hinrich a bust last year, seems to be doing well now !!
Dorrell Wright a bust ????

There are many of names who "havent" played yet. And ya know what the kids who do play are on teams that wont be .500 and in the playoffs....


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## FutureDraftPick (Aug 7, 2004)

*Re: Re: ...*



> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> 
> 
> Go check the posts dude and do a search if you really want to know. I stick to my guns always. Hong Wrong Fooey, that was good one. Nerd. :|


You got 17000+ posts on a site and you call someone a nerd???


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: ...*



> Originally posted by <b>FutureDraftPick</b>!
> 
> 
> You got 17000+ posts on a site and you call someone a nerd???


If me posting on a message board means I'm a nerd, then what are you doing here?


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## Larry Hughes for Retirement (Jul 5, 2004)

Hong Kong your down on the Miami forum posting that Dorrell Wright isnt playing because their in contention for a title. What do you think Cleveland is doing ? just out their dicking around for 82 games.

Could be the reason that ive said before why Jackson isnt playing. We dont need him as of right now, we are in "contention".


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Dorell is 19 and Luke is 22. Dorell was picked 19th as a 5th year prep, after playing only 4 years of organized basketball, while Luke was picked 10th after winning Collegiate All-America honors as a senior. 

The expectations are woefully different. Just admit that you're disappointed in Luke, as he has shown nothing. I'm not disappointed, because this is what I expected, considering that he will be one of the busts of this draft (considering all the hype he got in pre-draft workouts and such). Dorell was not going to play this year, once the Heat got Shaq. 

The Cavs are not competing for a title either. They are going to make the playoffs, but they aren't a championship contender. Miami is yes, but not Cleveland. Not yet anyway.


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## Larry Hughes for Retirement (Jul 5, 2004)

Well i would hope that a team that is 2nd in the East would be in contention. Its not just one team from the East fighting for a title.

I didnt expect Luke to do great things this year, but i would have thought he would have playing time. But i guarantee he would be playing on alot of other teams, Silas just favors experience and vets.


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## SamTheMan67 (Jan 4, 2004)

I think if the pieces fall together we could make it to the ECF but unless lebron turns into god we cant beat miami


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## Larry Hughes for Retirement (Jul 5, 2004)

Shaq is awesome i will say that. And still the best center in the league but Bron is better than Wade and Zydrunas isnt a bum.

Zydrunas strength is Shaq's weakness, stepping out shooting the 10-12 footer, pick and role making Shaq move around.

Its not as lopsided as you make it sound. I know its only 30 some games in so no reason to be talking about this. But every team in the playoff is in contention, did anyone think Detriot was going to make it out of the East let along win it all ??


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Luke has shown glimpses in his limited minutes. I think if you look back when it was common for people to stay in college for four years, even then players who turned out to be good players struggled.

Look at Joe Johnson ( he came out as a sophomore), Donyell Marshall (4 years in college and 4th overall), Jalen Rose (3 years in college), Chauncey Billups (2 years in college and 3rd overall). These guys took atleast a year before turning into solid pros. Sure Jackson could be a bust but it's way too soon


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