# Michael Jordan's Hall of Fame speech



## ChrisRichards (Jul 17, 2007)

Jordan was greater than the game. Never be another.


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## ScottVdub (Jul 9, 2002)

Jordan was greater than the game. Never be another.[/QUOTE]

Shame on you for saying such blasphemy. Greater than the game, pfffffffffffffffff


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

Well I guess I should stop watching :sarcasm:


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## Piolo_Pascual (Sep 13, 2006)

:rofl: @ the bryon russell story :rofl:


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

Truly a great induction. And nobody in today's game or past generations have had the drive and will to be the best as Michael Jordan.


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## The Immortal CJ (Sep 7, 2009)

Jordan was clearly the greatest clutch performer in the history of sports and knew the game of basketball like no other player. He was overall the best to ever play the game.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-jordanhall091209&prov=yhoo&type=lgns&expire=1

The speech didnt go over well with everyone, including those in the audience.


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## gi0rdun (May 31, 2007)

Still a cocky--- mofo but congrats.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

gi0rdun said:


> Still a cockyass mofo but congrats.


If there is one guy on the planet who is allowed to be cocky it is Michael Jordan. and brock lesnar


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

When you're that good you're allowed to be cocky. It's when guys like Marbury claiming to be the best point guard in the NBA then it becomes a problem.

I thought the speech was interesting. It's much better than if MJ just came out and went through the motions with thanks and yada yada.


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## sknydave (Apr 27, 2006)

Porn_Player said:


> and brock lesnar



brocksword?


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

Not everyone loved Jordan's speech:



> SPRINGFIELD, Mass. – The tears tumbled, flooding his face and Michael Jordan had yet to march to the microphone at Symphony Hall. He had listened to the genuine stories and speeches of a remarkable class. He had watched a “This is Your Life” video compilation of his basketball genius. Everything flashed before him, a legacy that he’s fought with body and soul to never, ever let go into yesterday.
> 
> Yes, Michael Jordan was still fighting it on Friday night, and maybe he always will. Mostly, he was crying over the passing of that old Jordan, and it wouldn’t be long until he climbed out of his suit and back into his uniform and shorts, back into an adolescent act that’s turned so tedious.
> 
> ...


http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-jordanhall091209&prov=yhoo&type=lgns


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## bballlife (Oct 5, 2003)

Jordan's was tough to watch. I think Stockton had a perfect speech.


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## Seuss (Aug 19, 2005)

People say Jordan was just being cocky. I disagree, that came off really bitter to me. If you're considered the greatest player of all time, how could you be so bitter? He acted like people hadn't heard about these stories. 

And Stockton's speech was just perfect. The guy finally gets the spotlight to say whatever he wants to say, and all he does is credit everyone around him. Just one of the most humble superstars that the game has ever seen.


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## Piolo_Pascual (Sep 13, 2006)

i loved jordan's decision to be himself last night. he was'nt speaking in front of an audience. if there was one uncomfortable moment, imo, it would be when he talked about the freeze out incident in the AS game. you can certainly tell gervin and isiah thomas were both having a hard time swallowing as jordan shared his story.


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## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

jordan's speech was garbage.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

Seuss said:


> People say Jordan was just being cocky. I disagree, that came off really bitter to me. If you're considered the greatest player of all time, how could you be so bitter? He acted like people hadn't heard about these stories.
> 
> And Stockton's speech was just perfect. The guy finally gets the spotlight to say whatever he wants to say, and all he does is credit everyone around him. Just one of the most humble superstars that the game has ever seen.


I agree. He probably should have spent more time talking about Tim Grover and Scottie Pippen and his teammates, and less time talking about all of his fueds and the people he didn't like. Oh well, that's his stage to talk about whatever he wants. It was just hard to watch at points.


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## Piolo_Pascual (Sep 13, 2006)

i would'nt say its garbage. its not your cookie cutter type of speech prepared by nike, sure, but it was candid and it was honest.


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## Chan Ho Nam (Jan 9, 2007)

cant wait to hear Kobe's speech


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

Real arrogant piece of ****. Four of five fans say he's the greatest ever, and he still comes off as an insecure douche.

Like Shaq without the humor.

Stockton had a great speech.


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## Piolo_Pascual (Sep 13, 2006)

eh, jordan paid scottie the ultimate respect imo. among the many people who have had an impact in his life, he thanked pippen first in that speech, thanked him for being there in his championship years. at the height of his emotions, scottie's name came first. yes even before jordan's father who obviously meant a whole lot to him.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

The usual suspects of Jordan haters here on BBB.Net grasping for straws.

Jordan is better than your favorite player. Deal with it!

Congrats to Jordan and the entire class of 2009. Truly one of the greatest Hall Of Fame classes ever. 

I still remember Mr. Robinson's neighborhood, David Robinson is probably my favorite Center of all time. The guy was a beast. Stockton, has always been so gracious and humble. Have you guy's seen the home video he recorded, when he played in the olympics, and he went up to people on the streets (americans) and pointed out all the players of the Dream Team on their shirts, and the fan didn't recognize who Stockton was ? John made a joke of it talking about all the attention he get's being an NBA superstar on the Dream Team. One of Stocktons kid's pointed at the lady's shirt and said there is daddy, and finally the fan realized she was talking to the great John Stockton.

Props to Sloan, Vivian Stringer, they both had great speeches. And Jordan's speech is exactly what made him one of the best ever. Anything that goes against him, he will hold against you, and try to top you. People love it in sports, but are surprised and discouraged post basketball ? Really well I surely hope you didn't like Jordan when he wore the Red and Black and dominated the NBA. People are cut from a certain cloth, they don't change just because they stop playing for the NBA. Jordans speech was money, and very moving. **** the haters.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

Anyone with a grasp of what these ceremonies are about would tell you his speech was hard to watch. Yahoo has a frontpage article about it. It's okay to concede a weakness in Jordan as a person, since I know it's far too difficult to concede any weakness in him as a player. 

Some of you kill me. Jordan could call you a moron, insult your mother and tell you to unzip his pants and you'd happily fulfill his request. 

I'm not that kind of fan.


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## DaRizzle (May 22, 2007)

23AJ said:


> The usual suspects of Jordan haters here on BBB.Net grasping for straws.
> 
> Jordan is better than your favorite player. Deal with it!


Grasping at straws? 

Nobody can deny his talent, but make no mistake, he is a bonafide *******. It seems that him being an ******* fueled his competitive drive, but he is STILL an *******. Calling people out like that in a HOF speech?!? Are you serious? Giving his college coach **** for not being on SI, giving his HS coach and Leroy Smith an "i told you so", calling out other HOF's for the All Star game freeze out and then saying (paraphrase)" I think I proved myself" with a snide look on his face, telling his kids he wouldnt want to be them, because of who he is. He calls out the Bulls organization saying only players win 'ships. Oh really Mr. Jordan? Then explain the Celtics and Lakers dominance over generations you moron. Saying he is right and Tex Winter was wrong in that one game he mentioned. For god sake the dude is living out the last days of his life after a stroke and all you want to do is talk over the applause when his name was mentioned and try to prove everybody else is wrong and you are right.

The one that took the cake for me was him calling out Byron Russell and then shoving it into John Stocktons face. He gives that story and then says "Remember John?" and John sits there with a stoic look on his face. Hey Jordan, how about you dont shove possibly the most saddening moment in John Stocktons career in his face *ON HIS HOF NIGHT TOO NO LESS!!!*

Classless SOB, who just happened to be one of if not the best player of all time


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

DaRizzle said:


> Grasping at straws?
> 
> Nobody can deny his talent, but make no mistake, he is a bonafide *******. It seems that him being an ******* fueled his competitive drive, but he is STILL an *******. Calling people out like that in a HOF speech?!? Are you serious? Giving his college coach **** for not being on SI, giving his HS coach and Leroy Smith an "i told you so", calling out other HOF's for the All Star game freeze out and then saying (paraphrase)" I think I proved myself" with a snide look on his face, telling his kids he wouldnt want to be them, because of who he is. He calls out the Bulls organization saying only players win 'ships. Oh really Mr. Jordan? Then explain the Celtics and Lakers dominance over generations you moron. Saying he is right and Tex Winter was wrong in that one game he mentioned. For god sake the dude is living out the last days of his life after a stroke and all you want to do is talk over the applause when his name was mentioned and try to prove everybody else is wrong and you are right.
> 
> ...


Thank you. Jordan is one of my favorite players ever, and he is one of three guys I consider the top tier of the best players ever. I grew up on him and the Bulls. However, the undying fanatacism of some of his fans is just too much.


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## DNKO (Dec 23, 2008)

Haha at Laker fans being sensitive to MJ's no bull in your face attitude/speech. He's just SO MEEEEAN and RUDE! 

Here's my take on his rude speech yesterday;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcyOoPDlSuU


Can't wait to hear your favorite player speech with fabricated "I will thank the lord, and from this place where I stand, I will end the world hunger, cure AIDS and again - thank god for blessing me with this life."


Get real.


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## Chan Ho Nam (Jan 9, 2007)

lol, im a jordan fan but that speech was pretty egotistical and dbaggish of him


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## DNKO (Dec 23, 2008)

Yeah me too man. He didn't address third world hunger, oil prices, and health reform.

Booooo!!!!


And what's even worse, he was 100% honest about something he tried to tell everyone that wasn't shown on highlight reels - his motivation to compete and succeed.

What a douche.

So rude.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

It's weird that Robinson and Stockton were the well-adjusted ones that seemed happy with their life. They were the ones that fell short of Jordan their whole career. You'd think they were the bitter ones. Jordan was bitter, and he was the one who won all the titles and got all the glory. You'd think it would be the other way around.


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## DaRizzle (May 22, 2007)

DNKO said:


> Haha at Laker fans being sensitive to MJ's no bull in your face attitude/speech. He's just SO MEEEEAN and RUDE!
> 
> Here's my take on his rude speech yesterday;
> 
> ...


I am real, and there is a word for my real:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/humility

Its his HOF induction speech! Everybody knows how great he was. He's up there trying to remind everybody how awesome he is. He mentions Pippen and Phil in a kind way and everything else is him talking about people he thought tried to keep him down and him shoving back in their faces. Hey Jordan, winning the game and championships prove you overcame what people thought of you, not calling them out 10-30 years later. 

Just to be clear I am a fan of a team, not players. I can easily admit that Kobe is a ***** too, a ***** who dominates basketball games.


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## Piolo_Pascual (Sep 13, 2006)

people are missing out on the theme of jordan's speech. he was not comfortable calling himself as the greatest player but he made sure that people know he's quite possibly the best competitor of the game, he didnt shy away from that. all the examples he made, built the foundation of his competitive nature.



i mean the guy started off his storybook night by overcoming the adversities created by his brothers and sisters. does that mean, he's calling them out too? no, of course not.



jordan was being thankful to each and every people that added logged in his fire. i can never look at it at another way. he came out as a human being, not a phony product of the corporate world.


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## TYO23 (Feb 2, 2009)

I didnt find the speech that bad. I'd rather him be honest like he was last night then go out there and bs us.


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## DaRizzle (May 22, 2007)

thanking teammates, family, and all the others that are in his life and reflecting on the better moments in his career would have been BSing?


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## Chan Ho Nam (Jan 9, 2007)

DNKO said:


> Yeah me too man. He didn't address third world hunger, oil prices, and health reform.
> 
> Booooo!!!!
> 
> ...


you're in denial my son


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## Piolo_Pascual (Sep 13, 2006)

23AJ said:


> The usual suspects of Jordan haters here on BBB.Net grasping for straws.
> 
> Jordan is better than your favorite player. Deal with it!
> 
> ...



you know if jordan came out on a much lighter mood, being cordial and polite to everyone, people would've knocked him anyway.


they would remind everyone that jordan punched steve kerr in practice, and that jordan took away horace grant's dinner on the plane when he did'nt play well or he told his teammates not to pass the ball to bill cartwright.



like, i said, i applaud jordan for letting people know that the person on that podium was the real mike. 




Sir Patchwork said:


> It's weird that Robinson and Stockton were the well-adjusted ones that seemed happy with their life.



i dont understand the double standards here. its no surprise that stockton and malone were two of the truly rare class act players in the league. i dont expect them to come out of a character. why is there so much negative spin when jordan came out of his way?


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

DaRizzle said:


> Grasping at straws?
> 
> Nobody can deny his talent, but make no mistake, he is a bonafide *******. It seems that him being an ******* fueled his competitive drive, but he is STILL an *******. Calling people out like that in a HOF speech?!? Are you serious? Giving his college coach **** for not being on SI, giving his HS coach and Leroy Smith an "i told you so", calling out other HOF's for the All Star game freeze out and then saying (paraphrase)" I think I proved myself" with a snide look on his face, telling his kids he wouldnt want to be them, because of who he is. He calls out the Bulls organization saying only players win 'ships. Oh really Mr. Jordan? Then explain the Celtics and Lakers dominance over generations you moron. Saying he is right and Tex Winter was wrong in that one game he mentioned. For god sake the dude is living out the last days of his life after a stroke and all you want to do is talk over the applause when his name was mentioned and try to prove everybody else is wrong and you are right.
> 
> ...


QFT.

Like others have said, Jordan is a classless, egotistical douche-bag.
Yes, he is arguably the greatest basketball player ever. But that doesn't mean he is a nice guy.
Not even me, one of the biggest Jordan critics in this Forum, expected that kind of low-life speech. What a bum.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

DaRizzle said:


> thanking teammates, family, and all the others that are in his life and reflecting on the better moments in his career would have been BSing?


If that isn't the way he feels then yes.


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## Piolo_Pascual (Sep 13, 2006)

DaRizzle said:


> thanking teammates, family, and all the others that are in his life and reflecting on the better moments in his career would have been BSing?


yes its bsing. he was always portrayed as a competitive figure in almost all aspects in life. this is something that's been covered for years. so why should that night be any different? because the people attending his induction are wearing suits?


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## TYO23 (Feb 2, 2009)

DaRizzle said:


> thanking teammates, family, and all the others that are in his life and reflecting on the better moments in his career would have been BSing?


He did mention scottie. He talked about his family and where he got his competitive nature from. He talked about his sister ros and his brothers and how they played a part in his competitive nature. Sorry you didnt like the speech but he spoke his mind. I would've rather seen him do that. Than for him to go up there and say something that wasnt real.


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## Piolo_Pascual (Sep 13, 2006)

PauloCatarino said:


> QFT.
> 
> Like others have said, Jordan is a classless, egotistical douche-bag.
> Yes, he is arguably the greatest basketball player ever. But that doesn't mean he is a nice guy.
> Not even me, one of the biggest Jordan critics in this Forum, expected that kind of low-life speech. What a bum.


so is magic johnson, larry bird, isiah thomas and shaq,kobe,lebron,garnett, i could go on here.


why is this a surprise? what i cant understand here is why is it ok for other people to be phony, yet jordan can't be his own trash talking egotistical person when he wants to be?


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

aznzen said:


> i dont understand the double standards here. its no surprise that stockton and malone were two of the truly rare class act players in the league. i dont expect them to come out of a character. why is there so much negative spin when jordan came out of his way?


It just sounds a lot like the quarterback and best player on a high school football team coming to the 10 year reunion and reminding all of his old teammates of how much better he was than them because he became a janitor and they became laywers.


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## DaRizzle (May 22, 2007)

For Porn Player and Aznzen I would go back to my reference to humility.

The speech was not a competition. He already won! Him getting to do that speech and what that meant was the reward for being a winner on the court.


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

I just feel bad for the dude. It must suck not being able to play and being so competitive that you stew in bitter misery over bouts from decades ago. Jordan gets a pass from most people due to his greatness. But if you're fair and not a dedicated jocker, the truth is the poor guy is petty. A shame.


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## someone (Jul 17, 2007)

I just watched the whole thing and it didn't seem THAT bad to me. I found it heartwarming and funny.

What do you guys expect from him anyway? I mean really. Did you guys just learn he's an egotistical jerk?


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## Nightmute (Apr 12, 2007)

I liked Jordan's speech a lot more then anyone else's, especially Stockton's.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

DaRizzle said:


> For Porn Player and Aznzen I would go back to my reference to humility.
> 
> The speech was not a competition. He already won! Him getting to do that speech and what that meant was the reward for being a winner on the court.


But that isn't what I replied to. MJ was honest to himself, he has never been a bubble gum guy who will go out and make all nicey nice when he doesn't feel that way. If he had acted up for the cameras then yes that would have been bull****, not because of the words that would come out of his mouth but for the reasons he delivered them. He just isn't a John Stockton kind of guy and I'm not sure why a few of you expected him to be.


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## Nightmute (Apr 12, 2007)

You guys sound like those people who ask "How are you" and only really want here "good" as a response. Yeah, Jordan is competitive, conceited and egotistical but at least he doesn't spend most of his career pretending like he's not. Because honestly a vast majority of superstars in any sport are competitive, conceited, and egotistical *******s as well; whether that's the side they portray in the media or not.


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

aznzen said:


> so is magic johnson, larry bird, isiah thomas and shaq,kobe,lebron,garnett, i could go on here.
> 
> 
> why is this a surprise? what i cant understand here is why is it ok for other people to be phony, yet jordan can't be his own trash talking egotistical person when he wants to be?


Larry Bird was the most despicable basketball player ever. Still: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5a50NYSKaU


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## Nightmute (Apr 12, 2007)

PauloCatarino said:


> Larry Bird was the most despicable basketball player ever. Still: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5a50NYSKaU


So, that's what you want to see, like Porn Player said, bull ****?


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

PauloCatarino said:


> Larry Bird was the most despicable basketball player ever. Still: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5a50NYSKaU


And Magic Johnson was a gracious gentlemen with values and morals for everyone to look up to. Hence why he cheated on his wife and got Aids. 

But Jordan is such a bad guy, he expressed himself honestly, and talked about his career, and instead of BS'ing everyone, he said it like it was, and how it is. Man what a bad guy, hopefully nobody ever ends up like Jordan. Let's all hope they become Magic Johnson's who have a nice smile and a warm personality, but end up with Aids. Let's hope everyone ends up like Kobe Bryant who was arrested for being accused of rape. Let's hope everyone ends up like LeBron James, who just recently came out with a book talking about what a complete douche bag he was during all his high school years, and initial season in the NBA.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

aznzen said:


> people are missing out on the theme of jordan's speech. he was not comfortable calling himself as the greatest player but he made sure that people know he's quite possibly the best competitor of the game, he didnt shy away from that. all the examples he made, built the foundation of his competitive nature.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Very good post.


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## DaRizzle (May 22, 2007)

23AJ said:


> And Magic Johnson was a gracious gentlemen with values and morals for everyone to look up to. Hence why he cheated on his wife and got Aids.
> 
> But Jordan is such a bad guy, he expressed himself honestly, and talked about his career, and instead of BS'ing everyone, he said it like it was, and how it is. Man what a bad guy, hopefully nobody ever ends up like Jordan. Let's all hope they become Magic Johnson's who have a nice smile and a warm personality, but end up with Aids. Let's hope everyone ends up like Kobe Bryant who was arrested for being accused of rape. Let's hope everyone ends up like LeBron James, who just recently came out with a book talking about what a complete douche bag he was during all his high school years, and initial season in the NBA.


http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/editorials/2002-11-25-oped-wickham_x.htm

Jordan is no angel my blind friend...everybody makes mistakes.


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

Nightmute said:


> So, that's what you want to see, like Porn Player said, bull ****?


lol
No, i fully expeted Bird to come out on such a prestigious occasion and cuss out Dr. J and Dennis Rodman, and remind everyone how he kept sweepinh Michael Jordan in the playoffs!
lol


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

DaRizzle said:


> http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/editorials/2002-11-25-oped-wickham_x.htm
> 
> Jordan is no angel my blind friend...everybody makes mistakes.


Nobody made any claims Jordan is a saint. However everyone started making claims about other players being gracious PC athletes with a warm personality. When in reality you can find plenty of dirt on pretty much any athlete. Jordan's speech was far from a crime. It was real and honest. I think Americans in general are sick and tired of the PC attitude. So Jordan's speech was actually a refreshing change.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

PauloCatarino said:


> lol
> No, i fully expeted Bird to come out on such a prestigious occasion and cuss out Dr. J and Dennis Rodman, and remind everyone how he kept sweepinh Michael Jordan in the playoffs!
> lol


But Jordan didn't try to tarnish Bird, or ice bird out of anything Bird earned. I think you miss the entire truth of Jordans career. Jordan simply called it like it was and how it is. I wouldn't have any problems with Bird or any player doing that.

And Larry Bird is the greatest Small Forward ever.

cheers!


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

23AJ said:


> And Magic Johnson was a gracious gentlemen with values and morals for everyone to look up to. Hence why he cheated on his wife and got Aids.
> 
> But Jordan is such a bad guy, he expressed himself honestly, and talked about his career, and instead of BS'ing everyone, he said it like it was, and how it is. Man what a bad guy, hopefully nobody ever ends up like Jordan. Let's all hope they become Magic Johnson's who have a nice smile and a warm personality, but end up with Aids. Let's hope everyone ends up like Kobe Bryant who was arrested for being accused of rape. Let's hope everyone ends up like LeBron James, who just recently came out with a book talking about what a complete douche bag he was during all his high school years, and initial season in the NBA.


Man, for a split second i had images of allen Iverson in his (probable) hof induction, standing there "keeping it real" and yelling how White america tried to "bring him down", and how he was "targeted" because he was a symbol of black neighbourhoods, and preaching the "thug life" or whatever... and how he was better than all of his teammates, and how he didn't win because of them, and so on, and so on...
THAT will be a SERIOUS, NON-BS speech.


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## someone (Jul 17, 2007)

Tyrus Thomas at his HOF induction...

"FREE MONEY!"


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## DaRizzle (May 22, 2007)

23AJ said:


> Nobody made any claims Jordan is a saint. However everyone started making claims about other players being gracious PC athletes with a warm personality. When in reality you can find plenty of dirt on pretty much any athlete. Jordan's speech was far from a crime. It was real and honest. *I think Americans in general are sick and tired of the PC attitude. So Jordan's speech was actually a refreshing change.*


Uh no...its not a change, its the norm...too many people think only about themselves. He cant even stop being selfish for a 20min speech...It really is sort of sad


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## DaRizzle (May 22, 2007)

PauloCatarino said:


> Man, for a split second i had images of allen Iverson in his (probable) hof induction, standing there "keeping it real" and yelling how White america tried to "bring him down", and how he was "targeted" because he was a symbol of black neighbourhoods, and preaching the "thug life" or whatever... and how he was better than all of his teammates, and how he didn't win because of them, and so on, and so on...
> THAT will be a SERIOUS, NON-BS speech.


rofl....nice


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

It's okay for Jordan to be a terrible human being in his speech, because that's who he is as a person. That's what I've learned in this thread. 

I guess it's appropriate for him to be inducted with Stockton and Robinson, who are known as two of the nicest players to ever play the game. Jordan may have spent his whole career making them look bad as basketball players, but they made him look bad as a person because their speeches were far more grateful and warm while still being genuine. 

Jordan's speech was genuine. I'll give him that. Doesn't mean he shouldn't be called an a-hole for it.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

DaRizzle said:


> Uh no...its not a change, its the norm...too many people think only about themselves. He cant even stop being selfish for a 20min speech...It really is sort of sad


And a lot more people now, are very PC in the public, but are douche bags behind closed doors. So yeah I prefer Jordan and anyone running their mouth in public how they would in private. Forget the Fakers.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

PauloCatarino said:


> Man, for a split second i had images of allen Iverson in his (probable) hof induction, standing there "keeping it real" and yelling how White america tried to "bring him down", and how he was "targeted" because he was a symbol of black neighbourhoods, and preaching the "thug life" or whatever... and how he was better than all of his teammates, and how he didn't win because of them, and so on, and so on...
> THAT will be a SERIOUS, NON-BS speech.


Everyone's a product of their past. A.I. has nothing to be ashamed of IMO.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

Sir Patchwork said:


> Jordan's speech was genuine. I'll give him that. Doesn't mean he shouldn't be called an a-hole for it.


Call him an a-hole all you like, at least you know his name. Who are you again?


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

By the way, I find it a bit ironic that the posters calling out Jordan here. And talking about how irreverent he was with his speech considering the magnitude of the honor being inducted into the Hall of fame. Are the same posters who are bad mouthing, and not showing much reverence and gratitude towards Jordan for being inducted into the Hall Of Fame. 

And that is a hypocrite, do as I say, but not as I do. So Jordan might be an ******* in your minds, but at least he's not a PC hypocrite.

Later fakers.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

Porn_Player said:


> Call him an a-hole all you like, at least you know his name. Who are you again?


I know Hitler's name. Who are you? Your statement is why people shoot up schools and blow up buildings. Get real.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

Sir Patchwork said:


> I know Hitler's name. Who are you? Your statement is why people shoot up schools and blow up buildings. Get real.


:laugh: 

That post was simply ridiculous.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

Porn_Player said:


> :laugh:
> 
> That post was simply ridiculous.


Your inability to understand the basic point is ridiculous.


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## Piolo_Pascual (Sep 13, 2006)

Porn_Player said:


> He just isn't a John Stockton kind of guy and I'm not sure why a few of you expected him to be.


thank you.


i dont expect tim duncan to came out firing on all his adversaries in his hof speech(probably would be the most brong speech in HOF history). on that note, i dont expect shaq to be serious @ his induction, lebron is probably going to hype his legacy at his HOF. people have different personalities, plain and simple.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

Sir Patchwork said:


> Your inability to understand the basic point is ridiculous.


Your attempt to divert my point is what is truly ridiculous. Michael Jordan transcends the game of basketball and you have the cheek to sit at your computer and lambaste him all night long? This is a basketball forum not a celebrity site, we judge people upon what they do on that hardwood not hollywood.


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## Piolo_Pascual (Sep 13, 2006)

23AJ said:


> And a lot more people now, are very PC in the public, but are douche bags behind closed doors. So yeah I prefer Jordan and anyone running their mouth in public how they would in private. *Forget the Fakers*.


darizzle, aj implied you're a faker:rofl:


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## DaRizzle (May 22, 2007)

oh...ok....what will i ever do...


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

aznzen said:


> darizzle, aj implied you're a faker:rofl:


Yup pretty much , it's the mentality, that there is some accordance or script for people to follow. Yet the same posters banging on Jordan for spitting fire, are the first to throw dirt on him, for being him. How unacceptable. It's such a power trip, a principal mentality. And **** that noise.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

I liked his speech. I liked that he didn't let Reinsdorf off the hook for being an idiot. He just was super competitive and wanted to beat your brains in. I respect that.


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## DaRizzle (May 22, 2007)

23AJ said:


> Yup pretty much , it's the mentality, that there is some accordance or script for people to follow. Yet the same posters banging on Jordan for spitting fire, are the first to throw dirt on him, for being him. How unacceptable. It's such a power trip, a principal mentality. And **** that noise.


i guess I just have higher standards on how to treat the people in life (not on message boards)

You guys have fun with your me first attitude ...I realized a long time ago that I care about others a lot more than most...If thats a bad thing then oh well


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

Porn_Player said:


> Your attempt to divert my point is what is truly ridiculous. Michael Jordan transcends the game of basketball and you have the cheek to sit at your computer and lambaste him all night long? This is a basketball forum not a celebrity site, we judge people upon what they do on that hardwood not hollywood.


So if you see Tom Hanks robbing someone (or doing something wrong, to keep it simple for you), you aren't allowed to say anything about it? Who are you to say anything to or about Tom Hanks that doesn't have to do with acting? Become more well known before you can say anything! 

Your logic doesn't make sense.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

Sir Patchwork said:


> So if you see Tom Hanks robbing someone (or doing something wrong, to keep it simple for you), you aren't allowed to say anything about it? Who are you to say anything to or about Tom Hanks that doesn't have to do with acting? Become more well known before you can say anything!
> 
> Your logic doesn't make sense.


Wow, you must have dug deep into your pockets to find this straw to clutch at. I'll lay this down real simple for you (as you had the same courtesy for me)

1. This is a basketball forum. 

2. We are in the NBA forum section. 

3. Michael Jordan is the GOAT basketball player.

4. This is not, and I repeat not a hollywood gossip website. 

5. MJ did not rob anybody. MJ did only in fact act true to himself, a trait found admirable in most other people. Tom Hanks is not a known kleptomaniac, so if he was to steal it would be worth a discussion (on a different site or in EBB) 

6. Please say you have more, after all why stop at just Hitler and Tom Hanks?


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

DaRizzle said:


> i guess I just have higher standards on how to treat the people in life (not on message boards)
> 
> You guys have fun with your me first attitude ...I realized a long time ago that I care about others a lot more than most...If thats a bad thing then oh well


Naw man, *******s can treat the people they care about and love with high standards as well. And nobody was having fun with any selfish attitude. We were simply pointing out Jordan's speech was firm and direct, and honest. It was him baring his soul, and sharing his intimate thoughts on his career. Now if you care more about the people he opened up on, and that' has you all fired up. More power to you, however Jordan, and the speech it self was just fine. And a refreshing one, versus all the cookie cutter PC stuff you get all the time. So props to Jordan.


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## Piolo_Pascual (Sep 13, 2006)

> It's okay for Jordan to be a terrible human being in his speech, because that's who he is as a person. That's what I've learned in this thread.


there are numerous terrible things mike has done in his lifetime but in all honesty and from my opinion, none mentioned in that stage was even remotely close to one of them. he was egotistical sure, but then again, there's nothing new there, people who watched all his come fly with me etc nba videos, nothing has changed.


i think, if mike truly wants to be a hard ***, he could stop being nice and deviate away from the praise and compliments he paid legendary figures like, pat riley, coach jackson,dean smith among many others and spend his time chastising figures like laimbeer,gerald wilkins,the cleveland cavaliers franchise,kwame brown,adam morrison and abe pollin.


the moral of jordan' speech was this. when someone told you, you're not good enough, that you cant make it, that its always easier to fold, you have to remember that even if you used to think that you could not go on. And that life was nothing but an awful song, just know the meaning of true love and lean on the everlasting arms

so, If you can see it, then you can do it
If you just believe it, there's nothing to it



See when you're on the verge of breaking down. Sometimes silence can seem so loud. There are miracles in life you must achieve, But first you know it starts inside of you, oh, so again, If you can see it, then you can do it
If you just believe it, there's nothing to it,just believe you can fly,just believe you can touch the sky ,you think about it every night and day. spread your wings and fly away, you believe you can soar, you see you running through that open door. o, yes, believe you can fly. believe that you can fly.


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## DNKO (Dec 23, 2008)

Haha those two Lakereens are so pathetic with their efforts to nitpick the speech.

But I guess those same guys enjoyed watching that disastrous movie called "Kobe Doin Work" where Kobe laughs in the background with probably the most fabricated laughter ever known to man and maybe the most obvious "hey world look at me - I'm actually a NICE guy" attempts in it.

Damn.

I knew you guys hated MJ but I didn't know it burns that deep to this day. Oh well.

Anyway, I feel bad for people who couldn't understand what his speech was about. Kinda feel bad for them.



You girls realize that trying to throw hot coal @ MJ will only lead to your hands getting burned, right?


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## DNKO (Dec 23, 2008)

HKF said:


> I liked his speech. I liked that he didn't let Reinsdorf off the hook for being an idiot. He just was super competitive and wanted to beat your brains in. I respect that.


NO! Thats's rude. Kids look up to him, they heard him CUSS @ live event.

Nobody that I know curses in their real life, and nobody is as rude as MJ was yesterday.


Super competitive? No. He's INSANE. Why didn't he just congratulate everybody and thank the lord for being alive?

Instead he went on the egoistical trip on thanking the people who motivated him throughout his career.
:explosion:


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## ChrisRichards (Jul 17, 2007)

JOrdan didn't do anything wrong

He was thanking the people who inspired him, and joking with them remembering their feuds together. It's called reminiscing. They inspired him


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

Porn_Player said:


> Wow, you must have dug deep into your pockets to find this straw to clutch at. I'll lay this down real simple for you (as you had the same courtesy for me)
> 
> 1. This is a basketball forum.
> 
> ...


I guess different people want different things. Like someone else said, if Iverson stays "true to himself" and pulls the race card, claiming thug life and that white america tried to bring him down, I would also have something to say about that. You would think that's admirable. Different strokes for different folks. 

BTW, the hall of fame ceremony has everything to do with basketball.


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## ChrisRichards (Jul 17, 2007)

Jordan was going for humor

"Hey guys, we went at it pretty bad together. Remember the time we punched each other in the face and hated each others guts? *laughs about it now* You inpsired me to work harder, to want to be better than what I was. You were a true inspiration."


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## ChrisRichards (Jul 17, 2007)

Porn_Player said:


> Wow, you must have dug deep into your pockets to find this straw to clutch at. I'll lay this down real simple for you (as you had the same courtesy for me)
> 
> 1. This is a basketball forum.
> 
> ...


:champagne:

A Laker a.k.a Kobe fan hating on Jordan! what! who woulda thought


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## someone (Jul 17, 2007)

aznzen said:


> there are numerous terrible things mike has done in his lifetime but in all honesty and from my opinion, none mentioned in that stage was even remotely close to one of them. he was egotistical sure, but then again, there's nothing new there, people who watched all his come fly with me etc nba videos, nothing has changed.
> 
> 
> i think, if mike truly wants to be a hard ***, he could stop being nice and deviate away from the praise and compliments he paid legendary figures like, pat riley, coach jackson,dean smith among many others and spend his time chastising figures like laimbeer,gerald wilkins,the cleveland cavaliers franchise,kwame brown,adam morrison and abe pollin.
> ...


Great post. That's what I got from it too.


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## DaRizzle (May 22, 2007)

ChrisRichards said:


> Jordan was going for humor
> 
> *"Hey guys, I know the vast majority of you couldnt stand me. Remember the time that I kicked your *** at basketball? Do you remember? Do you remember? Do you remember? Do you remember? Do you remember? Do you remember? Do you remember? Do you remember?**laughs about it now* You inpsired me to work harder, to want to be better than what I was. You were my *stepping stones*"


agreed


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## someone (Jul 17, 2007)

DaRizzle said:


> agreed


:rofl2:

If you were in his shoes you'd be the first to gloat.


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## DaRizzle (May 22, 2007)

DNKO said:


> Haha those two Lakereens are so pathetic with their efforts to nitpick the speech.
> 
> *But I guess those same guys enjoyed watching that disastrous movie called "Kobe Doin Work" where Kobe laughs in the background with probably the most fabricated laughter ever known to man and maybe the most obvious "hey world look at me - I'm actually a NICE guy" attempts in it.
> *
> ...



Dont try to claim you know what I think. I 100% agree that "Kobe Doin work" was a crock of ****. I was a Lakers fan since the age of 7. They are the first and only team I care about in any sport. Kobe is a *****, I know that...Maybe there is some truth to the thought that you have to be a ***** to be great...but being great doesnt mask the fact that you are still a *****


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## ChrisRichards (Jul 17, 2007)

DaRizzle said:


> Dont try to claim you know what I think. I 100% agree that "Kobe Doin work" was a crock of ****. I was a Lakers fan since the age of 7. They are the first and only team I care about in any sport. Kobe is a *****, I know that...Maybe there is some truth to the thought that you have to be a ***** to be great...but being great doesnt mask the fact that you are still a *****


lol, look at kobe's career

you mean you DIDN'T predict Kobe working with Spike Lee? kobe's career looks like a "How to Copy Michael Jordan for Dummies"


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## DaRizzle (May 22, 2007)

ChrisRichards said:


> lol, look at kobe's career
> 
> you mean you DIDN'T predict Kobe working with Spike Lee? kobe's career looks like a "How to Copy Michael Jordan for Dummies"



dude, I dont put thought into things like that because I dont care. I just am a Lakers fan. Nothing more, nothing less. Its people like you who are infatuated with other peoples legacy's and the sorts. All I know is I saw a petty _human being_ on the stage still trying to shove his accomplishments in his ex-competitors faces.


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## Piolo_Pascual (Sep 13, 2006)

DaRizzle said:


> Dont try to claim you know what I think. I 100% agree that "Kobe Doin work" was a crock of ****. I was a Lakers fan since the age of 7. They are the first and only team I care about in any sport. Kobe is a *****, I know that...Maybe there is some truth to the thought that you have to be a ***** to be great...but being great doesnt mask the fact that you are still a *****



but see, you're arguing the obvious here man. people know he's a jerk and no one is defendind him on that. but the essence of that speech was lost when people started nitpicking on the minor and undesirable contents of his life experience rather than focus on the story of how he was able to overcome every struggles to achieve the very top that only a very select and few has managed to do so in their respective careers.


mike always had a dog eat dog mentality even before he became a basketball player. people who really knew him have all vouched for that, this is decades before his HOF speech took place. to ask him to simply change and forget what brought him here in the first place, would be a bigger disrespect and slap in the face to the millions of fans and hof committee who admired and elected him there.


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## ChrisRichards (Jul 17, 2007)

All I saw was Jordan reminiscing about his battles with his peers, people who he went to battle against, and then he thanked them for inspiring him. I found the stories funny, like the byron russel one.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

Most people are just jealous of Jordan. Their favorite players are never going to be as good as Jordan. And more importantly if they had the opportunity to stand toe to toe with Jordan, I doubt they would be talking **** to him. 

Besides how can you not like Jordan, when he's getting down with the Kids doing the dance move the Jerk ?


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## Piolo_Pascual (Sep 13, 2006)

im a huge kobe fan, but to those laker fans bashing jordan, know that when kobe takes centerstage, brace yourselves because the hatefest would be magnified by ten times. so please dont come out as a hypocrite and say it was all about "how many rings kobe has brought to the city of los angeles, anything he did off the court is irrelevant to me" garbage. because the haters would conveniently pull that rape case transcript to supplant any personal/individual accolades kobe has collected in his career.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

aznzen said:


> im a huge kobe fan, but to those laker fans bashing jordan, know that when kobe takes centerstage, brace yourselves because the hatefest would be magnified by ten times. so please dont come out as a hypocrite and say it was all about "how many rings kobe has brought to the city of los angeles, anything he did off the court is irrelevant to me" garbage. because the haters would conveniently pull that rape case transcript to supplant any personal/individual accolades kobe has collected in his career.


True! good post. And Kobe is the best in the game right now. He's counting rings!!


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## Tooeasy (Nov 4, 2003)

One of the most disappointing things about this to me, is that this is a moment in history that will be attached to his legacy. I have to remind everyone that this didn't involve him stepping on the court and dominating players like he did so often in his life, but this was simply an open mic that gave us a chance to look into his reflection on his life, the nba game, and his peers in general. He bombed in my opinion. 

Obviously one has to call a spade a spade... and Jordan has been one of, if not the most cocky player in all of sports. This was a chance for him to step out of his comfort zone and deliver a speech that proved he was not only the best player to step on the court ever, but has grown as a man since his retirement. If he really wanted to vocalize his feelings, he should of done it in a documentary that most could have looked at as interesting. I just don't think this was the right place for him to put people on blast, but he took it upon himself to somewhat sabotage the level of civility that most people integrate into their induction speeches. 

I don't blame people for defending him, but I have no problem with people getting angry that this could be the one of the last memories we have of someone who was idolized by hundreds of millions of people in the world.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

aznzen said:


> im a huge kobe fan, but to those laker fans bashing jordan, know that when kobe takes centerstage, brace yourselves because the hatefest would be magnified by ten times. so please dont come out as a hypocrite and say it was all about "how many rings kobe has brought to the city of los angeles, anything he did off the court is irrelevant to me" garbage. because the haters would conveniently pull that rape case transcript to supplant any personal/individual accolades kobe has collected in his career.


Kobe haters use their hate for him to actually knock how good of a basketball player he is. Kobe fans would never defend cheating on your wife, or whatever. They're just saying focus on who he is as a basketball player and learn to seperate the two aspects. I'm the same way with Jordan. He is one of the my favorite *players* of all-time, and he is arguably the best ever, and top 5 at worst. I absolutely loved watching him dominate the game. To this day I still root for the Bulls because of him. However, I think he is a a-hole. It's that simple. My arguments in this thread are mainly towards those trying to spin his character flaws into a positive. 

LeBron is an egomaniac too. So is Kobe. So is Wade. Except Jordan fans are the only ones who refuse to concede any character flaw. If Jordan has a huge ego, it's in a good way. If he cheats on his wife, it's in a good way. If he yells at his teammates, it's in a good way. If he is a d-bag, it's in a good way. It's ridiculous to me.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

Greatness.


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## DNKO (Dec 23, 2008)

Sir Patchwork said:


> If Jordan has a huge ego, it's in a good way. If he cheats on his wife, it's in a good way. If he yells at his teammates, it's in a good way. If he is a d-bag, it's in a good way. It's ridiculous to me.


I don't care about his ego, that 1.

2 - I don't care what MJ, James, Kobe, Wade, Lafayette Lever or Loy Vaught do to their wives.

You apparently do. But that's th TMZ in you.

3 - He yells at his teammates, boo hoo let's cry. So rude.

4 - Him being a d-bag is your personal observation. Certainly not mine.



Nobody talkin about MJ calling up Chicago Bulls' staff if they needed a ride to the Hall Of Fame and flying them over in his private jet.

Right?


Because he "called out" Russell and Zeke. How...rude!


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

Tooeasy said:


> One of the most disappointing things about this to me, is that this is a moment in history that will be attached to his legacy. I have to remind everyone that this didn't involve him stepping on the court and dominating players like he did so often in his life, but this was simply an open mic that gave us a chance to look into his reflection on his life, the nba game, and his peers in general. He bombed in my opinion.
> 
> Obviously one has to call a spade a spade... and Jordan has been one of, if not the most cocky player in all of sports. This was a chance for him to step out of his comfort zone and deliver a speech that proved he was not only the best player to step on the court ever, but has grown as a man since his retirement. If he really wanted to vocalize his feelings, he should of done it in a documentary that most could have looked at as interesting. I just don't think this was the right place for him to put people on blast, but he took it upon himself to somewhat sabotage the level of civility that most people integrate into their induction speeches.
> 
> I don't blame people for defending him, but I have no problem with people getting angry that this could be the one of the last memories we have of someone who was idolized by hundreds of millions of people in the world.


Good post.


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## Piolo_Pascual (Sep 13, 2006)

Sir Patchwork said:


> Kobe haters use their hate for him to actually knock how good of a basketball player he is. Kobe fans would never defend cheating on your wife, or whatever. They're just saying focus on who he is as a basketball player and learn to seperate the two aspects. I'm the same way with Jordan. He is one of the my favorite *players* of all-time, and he is arguably the best ever, and top 5 at worst. I absolutely loved watching him dominate the game. To this day I still root for the Bulls because of him. However, I think he is a a-hole. It's that simple. My arguments in this thread are mainly towards those trying to spin his character flaws into a positive.
> 
> LeBron is an egomaniac too. So is Kobe. So is Wade. Except Jordan fans are the only ones who refuse to concede any character flaw. If Jordan has a huge ego, it's in a good way. If he cheats on his wife, it's in a good way. If he yells at his teammates, it's in a good way. If he is a d-bag, it's in a good way. It's ridiculous to me.


i see your point of view. and i agree that every fanbase has its own die hard fanatics who does'nt exercise logic. unfortunately.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Tooeasy said:


> One of the most disappointing things about this to me, is that this is a moment in history that will be attached to his legacy. I have to remind everyone that this didn't involve him stepping on the court and dominating players like he did so often in his life, but this was simply an open mic that gave us a chance to look into his reflection on his life, the nba game, and his peers in general. He bombed in my opinion.
> 
> Obviously one has to call a spade a spade... and Jordan has been one of, if not the most cocky player in all of sports. This was a chance for him to step out of his comfort zone and deliver a speech that proved he was not only the best player to step on the court ever, but has grown as a man since his retirement. If he really wanted to vocalize his feelings, he should of done it in a documentary that most could have looked at as interesting. I just don't think this was the right place for him to put people on blast, but he took it upon himself to somewhat sabotage the level of civility that most people integrate into their induction speeches.
> 
> I don't blame people for defending him, but I have no problem with people getting angry that this could be the one of the last memories we have of someone who was idolized by hundreds of millions of people in the world.


You really remember HOF speeches? I mean let's be real, a year from now none of us will remember this.


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## Piolo_Pascual (Sep 13, 2006)

man i was going to say that^ srsly, i dont think anyone would remember. people are more likely to remember references from jordan's commercial than his infamous hof speech.


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## Carbo04 (Apr 15, 2005)

After watching the MJ speech live, I thought it was fine. Didn't really have a second thought about it. Then I get on Yahoo, and this board and see all the hate and complaints. I mean, seriously? There was nothing wrong with Mike's speech. I've gone back and watched it like 3 times to see what you people are *****ing about. The hate here is intense.


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## Nightmute (Apr 12, 2007)

Sir Patchwork said:


> Kobe haters use their hate for him to actually knock how good of a basketball player he is. Kobe fans would never defend cheating on your wife, or whatever. They're just saying focus on who he is as a basketball player and learn to seperate the two aspects. I'm the same way with Jordan. He is one of the my favorite *players* of all-time, and he is arguably the best ever, and top 5 at worst. I absolutely loved watching him dominate the game. To this day I still root for the Bulls because of him. However, I think he is a a-hole. It's that simple. My arguments in this thread are mainly towards those trying to spin his character flaws into a positive.
> 
> LeBron is an egomaniac too. So is Kobe. So is Wade. Except Jordan fans are the only ones who refuse to concede any character flaw. If Jordan has a huge ego, it's in a good way. If he cheats on his wife, it's in a good way. If he yells at his teammates, it's in a good way. If he is a d-bag, it's in a good way. It's ridiculous to me.


I don't think there's a real argument against what your saying, Jordan is an *******. There's no way around that point, and there's nothing wrong with pointing out the truth. He's like that cool popular kid at school, cool enough to liked or at least admired by just about everyone but still generally acknowledged as a total douche bag. My argument is that the complete opposite isn't any better, i.e. John Stockton and the speech he gave. Stockton shouldn't get points and kudos for doing what everyone wanted him to do. He made a derogatory speech thanking everyone, including those that he's probably not sincerely grateful towards; or at least not as much as his speech implies. If your going to give BS as a speech, then you might as while say thank you and sit down. And as far as Jordan's speech goes, he's not getting a pass for being an ******* it's just something you have to acknowledge and move past, because at the end of the day he's not Hitler and he's not robbing people.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

Nightmute said:


> I don't think there's a real argument against what your saying, Jordan is an *******. There's no way around that point, and there's nothing wrong with pointing out the truth. He's like that cool popular kid at school, cool enough to liked or at least admired by just about everyone but still generally acknowledged as a total douche bag. My argument is that the complete opposite isn't any better, i.e. John Stockton and the speech he gave. Stockton shouldn't get points and kudos for doing what everyone wanted him to do. He made a derogatory speech thanking everyone, including those that he's probably not sincerely grateful towards; or at least not as much as his speech implies. If your going to give BS as a speech, then you might as while say thank you and sit down. And as far as Jordan's speech goes, he's not getting a pass for being an ******* it's just something you have to acknowledge and move past, because at the end of the day he's not Hitler and he's not robbing people.


I don't think Stockton's speech was BS at all. I think him and Robinson had speeches well within their character. Either way, I think that Jordan has gratitude for more than enough guys who helped him along the way to fill a 5-10 minute speech. Rubbing in situations where you beat your opponents is a choice, because there are other people I know for fact helped his career out far more than his speech would lead you to believe. He could have taken a much warmer look at his career without being fake about it. Just because you're positive, doesn't mean you're not being sincere.


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## Jakain (Sep 8, 2006)

When it comes to class and being an upstanding individual imo David Robinson was the best example at the HOF ceremony and has always been one of the NBA GOAT's in this respect. However whats the deal with his speech time only being half of the others? Robinson would handle it in stride but seemed strange that he got about 8 mins compared to the 20 mins Sloan/Jordan got. I guess time was a big factor, I saw this online.

MJ was just being MJ, he is the NBA GOAT and is the guy who shifted gears into the MLB and came out of retirement twice; of course he's a cocky SOB but he's got the charisma and legacy to reinforce such an attitude (such a personality is what fueled MJ's success but I'm being Captain Obvious here). Bball was definitely more important to Jordan than for guys like the Admiral and Jordan is still actively balling through camps and the like IIRC. MJ's competitive drive has gotten him some negative attention like news of his gambling and having the record for giving the largest divorce settlement but like Rocky he's a guy who will always have one fight left in him and finds the real world hard to live in like most veterans do.


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## Nightmute (Apr 12, 2007)

Sir Patchwork said:


> I don't think Stockton's speech was BS at all. I think him and Robinson had speeches well within their character. Either way, I think that Jordan has gratitude for more than enough guys who helped him along the way to fill a 5-10 minute speech. Rubbing in situations where you beat your opponents is a choice, because there are other people I know for fact helped his career out far more than his speech would lead you to believe. He could have taken a much warmer look at his career without being fake about it. Just because you're positive, doesn't mean you're not being sincere.


Their speeches are well within there character, but there's no doubt that they attribute their success more to themselves than other people; something their speeches do not articulate. I just like a little honesty when listening to things like this, not just gratitude towards everyone else and the implication that you couldn't have done it if not for those you thanked. It's their time, so why should a speech about their achievements read basically like a thank you card to everyone you met in your life. That's why I enjoyed Michael's speech so much, particularly the parts about players and organizations and his implication that he might step out on the hardwood again; it's because Michael knows and isn't afraid to say that his achievements were achieved by him more so then other people. Just because you're honest, doesn't mean you're negative.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

Jakain said:


> When it comes to class and being an upstanding individual imo David Robinson was the best example at the HOF ceremony and has always been one of the NBA GOAT's in this respect. However whats the deal with his speech time only being half of the others? Robinson would handle it in stride but seemed strange that he got about 8 mins compared to the 20 mins Sloan/Jordan got. I guess time was a big factor, I saw this online.
> 
> MJ was just being MJ, he is the NBA GOAT and is the guy who shifted gears into the MLB and came out of retirement twice; of course he's a cocky SOB but he's got the charisma and legacy to reinforce such an attitude (such a personality is what fueled MJ's success but I'm being Captain Obvious here). Bball was definitely more important to Jordan than for guys like the Admiral and Jordan is still actively balling through camps and the like IIRC. MJ's competitive drive has gotten him some negative attention like news of his gambling and having the record for giving the largest divorce settlement but like Rocky he's a guy who will always have one fight left in him and finds the real world hard to live in like most veterans do.


I completely agree. Awesome post, and terrific use of the Rocky example. Jordan will be 50 and ready to bust some youngster's backside on the hardwood, or blacktop in a game of one on one. His drive and love for the game is unparalleled, and it's exactly what made him so great. As he expressed in his speech at the Hall Of Fame.


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## Najee (Apr 5, 2007)

I was disappointed by Michael Jordan's acceptance speech into the Basketball Hall of Fame. Not only is he still struggling with the fact that he no longer is an active player as he's stated in numerous interviews, he's still carrying grudges with things done 25-plus years ago. 

There really was no need for Jordan to throw Magic Johnson, Isiah Thomas and George Gervin under the bus. It seemed like he spent more time admonishing Van Gundy and Byron Russell for crossing him with taunts a dozen years ago than he did singling out his three children.

According to one story, Jordan flew his old high school teammate, Leroy Smith, to Springfield, Mass., for the induction. Remember, Smith was the upperclassman his coach, Pop Herring, kept on varsity over him as a high school sophomore. He waggled to the old coach, "I wanted to make sure you understood: You made a mistake, dude." 

The thing is we all knew these things years ago and MJ is acting like no one has heard those stories before. We know Jordan surpassed even what great players like Isiah, The Iceman and Magic did. But it came off like he couldn't let things go, just like he can't let go he no longer can take someone off the dribble and slam on a seven-footer. At the end of the speech, I was like "Damn, Mike, you won already. It's over -- MOVE ON."

As for whether Jordan's speech will be remembered, it's possible because of the enormity of Jordan the player and his significance. After all, quite a few great athletes' speeches have been memorable to various degrees (Lou Gerhig immediately comes to mind). Jordan had that chance, but he chose to be a schoolyard bully who became sucessful after college but still wants to push people around 25 years after the fact.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

Nightmute said:


> Their speeches are well within there character, but there's no doubt that they attribute their success more to themselves than other people; something their speeches do not articulate. I just like a little honesty when listening to things like this, not just gratitude towards everyone else and the implication that you couldn't have done it if not for those you thanked. It's their time, so why should a speech about their achievements read basically like a thank you card to everyone you met in your life. That's why I enjoyed Michael's speech so much, particularly the parts about players and organizations and his implication that he might step out on the hardwood again; it's because Michael knows and isn't afraid to say that his achievements were achieved by him more so then other people. Just because you're honest, doesn't mean you're negative.


It's obvious that a person's success is mostly their own doing. That goes without saying, especially in sports. Besides, Jordan's individual greatness is a mostly a tribute to himself and his hard work, however he was very fortunate in his circumstances. If he wanted to be truly honest, he could say that he is fortunate he didn't play Hakeem's Rockets in the finals. Or the flipside of what he did say about players winning the titles, how about the organization re-tooling the roster after they were beat in 1995? Without Pippen in 1987 they don't win the first 3 titles, and without Rodman in 1995 they don't win the second 3 titles. He said nothing about Rodman and very little about Pippen. He said nothing of Tim Grover who was his trainer for 7 years during the 2nd comeback. There are a bunch of things I could point out that attributed to his success, and I'm not even him. So either he chose to ignore those things and focus on rubbing in his superiority, or he doesn't even acknowledge that those people/situations helped him, in which case he is still an ungrateful a-hole. If you can be honest and sincere without being negative and bitter, why not do it?


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## Chan Ho Nam (Jan 9, 2007)

pitiful old man


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## Najee (Apr 5, 2007)

Sir Patchwork said:


> It's weird that Robinson and Stockton were the well-adjusted ones that seemed happy with their life. They were the ones that fell short of Jordan their whole career. You'd think they were the bitter ones. Jordan was bitter, and he was the one who won all the titles and got all the glory. You'd think it would be the other way around.


That's because Michael Jordan still is struggling with the fact that he no longer is an active basketball player. He's mentioned in numerous interviews since his induction into the Basketball Hall of Fame that it truly signals his playing career was over and he looks at it as a sign of his mortality.

IMO, David Robinson and John Stockton moved on because basketball didn't intoxicate and turn them out the way Jordan was turned out. Robinson and Stockton never came into college as ballyhooed players like Jordan did; Robinson in particular never was defined by basketball in his formative years the way Jordan was. Each became great NBA players, but Stockton never achieved such stardom prior to the NBA and Robinson became a star his junior year in college. 

Jordan always was defined by basketball, where Robinson would have been happy serving in the Navy if he didn't play in the NBA and Stockton moved on as soon as he retired. The reality is that Jordan was essentially a rock star, arguably the biggest universal sports icon since Muhammed Ali and it seems like he is struggling with the fact it's gone.

When asked about his induction recently, Jordan looked at it as a bittersweet moment and several times has compared it to death. He's said he wished it was an honor he received at death and half jokingly said the next step after his induction is death.

In a way, it's similar to what has been seen with others who have had such tremendous success on such a global level and cannot let it go. I always think of how the late Michael Jackson seemed obsessed with maintaining his popularity similar to his "Thriller" days. I also think of sports figures like Bear Bryant (who died months after retiring), Joe Paterno (who refuses to retire because he feels he will go out like Bryant) and Brett Favre in recent years. That's not even counting the likes of Magic Johnson, Evander Holyfield, Sugar Ray Leonard, Lance Armstrong, etc.

Jordan became intoxicated with playing and the accolades and achievements associated with what he accomplished, and even Michael Jordan cannot turn back the hands of time. That's why he came out of retirement to play for the Wizards. That's why he's more comfortable hanging out in the locker room with the Bobcats than working in the front office. Just like in his speech, he can't let go of the fact his run as a player is over.


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## Nightmute (Apr 12, 2007)

Sir Patchwork said:


> It's obvious that a person's success is mostly their own doing. That goes without saying, especially in sports. Besides, Jordan's individual greatness is a mostly a tribute to himself and his hard work, however he was very fortunate in his circumstances. If he wanted to be truly honest, he could say that he is fortunate he didn't play Hakeem's Rockets in the finals. Or the flipside of what he did say about players winning the titles, how about the organization re-tooling the roster after they were beat in 1995? Without Pippen in 1987 they don't win the first 3 titles, and without Rodman in 1995 they don't win the second 3 titles. He said nothing about Rodman and very little about Pippen. He said nothing of Tim Grover who was his trainer for 7 years during the 2nd comeback. There are a bunch of things I could point out that attributed to his success, and I'm not even him. So either he chose to ignore those things and focus on rubbing in his superiority, or he doesn't even acknowledge that those people/situations helped him, in which case he is still an ungrateful a-hole. If you can be honest and sincere without being negative and bitter, why not do it?


It wasn't Pippens, Rodman's or even Grover's night. It was Jordan's night, it was a night to acknowledge him. I don't disagree with anything your saying, Jordan had very fortunate circumstances and had great help from his organization and teammates, that much is clear. But all of that is insignificant on a night, more specifically 20 or so minutes of that night, that is meant to focus on him specifically. It wasn't "acknowledge Jordan, Pippen, Rodman, Grover, Krause, Jackson, Tex, Kerr, Kukoc, Mom, Dad, or even kids" night. I'm more interested in hearing about stuff he went through, challenges he faced, reasons he's the person he is, and the hard work he put into being the legendary athlete that he is, than a speech about how grateful he is to everyone in the world; from his teammates to his fans. Regardless if it comes off as negative and bitter, or humble and sincere it's the more interesting topic and apt thing to talk about during an event dedicated to personal achievements.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

Najee said:


> I was disappointed by Michael Jordan's acceptance speech into the Basketball Hall of Fame. Not only is he still struggling with the fact that he no longer is an active player as he's stated in numerous interviews, he's still carrying grudges with things done 25 years ago.
> 
> There really was no need for Jordan to throw Magic Johnson, Isiah Thomas and George Gervin under the bus. It seemed like he spent more time admonishing Van Gundy and Russell for crossing him with taunts a dozen years ago than he did singling out his three children.
> 
> ...


Jordan was interviewed before the induction speech, and told the reporter, I believe it was Sager from TNT/NBA TV that he would not write, and formulate a speech that is conducive, predictable, and normal for the Hall Of Fame. Jordan said, he's never been a guy to give speeches, but rather he was a guy who talks straight from the heart. So it might not be what you are expecting to hear, but it will be from the heart.

So no matter what you feel about Jordan the man. At least he gives you honesty, and words from the heart. Not everyone forgets, not everyone can let go of grudges. That goes to normal moms and dads, grandparents, and kids in the world. Not just Mr. Jordan. I rather hear it how it is, than get what I want, but it be disingenuous . 

As great as speeches are, and believe me I have some favorite one's, from athletes to presidents. I much rather hear what's in a persons heart for better or worse. Than to be told something, and leave the room knowing I've just been fed one line after another, because that's what the person thinks I want to hear. It's called pandering, and that is worse than anything Jordan said in his speech.


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## Najee (Apr 5, 2007)

Nightmute said:


> I'm more interested in hearing about stuff he went through, challenges he faced, reasons he's the person he is, and the hard work he put into being the legendary athlete that he is, than a speech about how grateful he is to everyone in the world; from his teammates to his fans.


The problem is that the things Michael Jordan went on about is well chronicled stuff that's been known for years, if not decades. Your point would be taken if Jordan mentioned anecdotes that no one heard before, but a lot of that stuff has been part of the MJ legend and is known by the general audience.

Jordan bringing all that stuff up comes off as a guy who can't let go of a grudge and still wants to say, "Told you so." It makes him petty and paints him with the paintbrush he still wants it to be the '80s and '90s.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

Najee said:


> The problem is that the things Michael Jordan went on about is well chronicled stuff that's been known for years, if not decades. Your point would be taken if Jordan mentioned anecdotes that no one heard before, but a lot of that stuff has been part of the MJ legend and is known by the general audience.
> 
> Jordan bringing all that stuff up comes off as a guy who can't let go of a grudge and still wants to say, "Told you so." It makes him petty and paints him with the paintbrush he still wants it to be the '80s and '90s.


I never knew about the Byron Russell story though, I really believe that was a funny story, and playful. The All Star Ice Out is well documented, but everyone has to be accountable for their actions. As you've seen in this thread alone, nobody is giving Jordan a pass. Why should Zeke, Gervin, and Earvin get one ? If they truly did Ice out Mike or not, it's what many have speculated for years. It was actually kind of nice for me hearing it addressed. And the only real reason MJ addressed it was to go along with the evolution of his career that made his drive and hunger to be the best explained. If all those things didn't happen to Michael Jordan that he shared at the Hall Of Fame, he may never have quite been the Jordan we all know and came to admire on the hardwood. I see nothing wrong with it at all.


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## Najee (Apr 5, 2007)

23AJ said:


> Jordan was interviewed before the induction speech, and told the reporter, I believe it was Sager from TNT/NBA TV that he would not write, and formulate a speech that is conducive, predictable, and normal for the Hall Of Fame. Jordan said, he's never been a guy to give speeches, but rather he was a guy who talks straight from the heart. So it might not be what you are expecting to hear, but it will be from the heart.


As a person who lives in the Charlotte area where Michael Jordan is an executive for the Charlotte Bobcats, Jordan has given numerous interviews with media sources from The Charlotte Observer and national media like ESPN about his refusal to let go of the fact he is no longer playing basketball as a player.

What you're talking about is somewhat out of context; the issue isn't whether Jordan had a prepared speech but why he can't let go of what he sees as slights real and perceived 25 and 30 years ago. I have no problem with Jordan not having a prepared speech; what I have a problem with is Jordan still had it on his mind about the alleged freeze-out of the 1985 All-Star Game that he felt the need to blast Isiah Thomas, Magic Johnson and George Gervin, throwing people like Jeff van Gundy and Bryon Russell under the bus, etc.

I'm sorry, but I don't remember having verbal spats with people from a few months ago, much less 25 years ago. If I still care 25 years after the fact what someone else said or I think they said about me then I look like the one who has the problem. But given that Jordan can't let go of the fact he's no longer a player and he's only six years away from that, adding his speech just adds credence to the conclusion.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

Nightmute said:


> It wasn't Pippens, Rodman's or even Grover's night. It was Jordan's night, it was a night to acknowledge him. I don't disagree with anything your saying, Jordan had very fortunate circumstances and had great help from his organization and teammates, that much is clear. But all of that is insignificant on a night, more specifically 20 or so minutes of that night, that is meant to focus on him specifically. It wasn't "acknowledge Jordan, Pippen, Rodman, Grover, Krause, Jackson, Tex, Kerr, Kukoc, Mom, Dad, or even kids" night. I'm more interested in hearing about stuff he went through, challenges he faced, reasons he's the person he is, and the hard work he put into being the legendary athlete that he is, than a speech about how grateful he is to everyone in the world; from his teammates to his fans. Regardless if it comes off as negative and bitter, or humble and sincere it's the more interesting topic and apt thing to talk about during an event dedicated to personal achievements.


Well I've said enough on this topic so I'll bow out after this post. I'll just say that I don't care if it's Jordan's night or not, I think it's downright pitiful for him to disrespect and insult people who took time out of their busy lives to come honor him. Basically everyone he ripped on was there in the building to honor him. I will never defend that or justify it by saying he was just being honest. He shouldn't have done it, bottom line. It doesn't change my opinion on him as a player. He was freaking awesome. I just can't defend his personality just because he was so good at basketball.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

Najee said:


> As a person who lives in the Charlotte area where Michael Jordan is an executive for the Charlotte Bobcats, Jordan has given numerous interviews with media sources from The Charlotte Observer and national media like ESPN about his refusal to let go of the fact he is no longer playing basketball as a player.
> 
> What you're talking about is somewhat out of context; the issue isn't whether Jordan had a prepared speech but why he can't let go of what he sees as slights real and perceived 25 and 30 years ago. I have no problem with Jordan not having a prepared speech; what I have a problem with is Jordan still had it on his mind about the alleged freeze-out of the 1985 All-Star Game that he felt the need to blast Isiah Thomas, Magic Johnson and George Gervin, throwing people like Jeff van Gundy and Bryon Russell under the bus, etc.
> 
> I'm sorry, but I don't remember having verbal spats with people from a few months ago, much less 25 years ago. If I still care 25 years after the fact what someone else said or I think they said about me then I look like the one who has the problem. But given that Jordan can't let go of the fact he's no longer a player and he's only six years away from that, adding his speech just adds credence to the conclusion.


Speaking of context, did you miss the part, where Jordan said it was a rumor the Ice out, and that he never believed it. But that it did spark and fuel his fire more to want to earn the respect of his peers ? I believe that was the over riding point of the story. And we have to take the man at his word. There for it isn't an attack on Zeke, Earvin, and Gervin it's a direct life experience he had with those players that helped mold him into the player he became. 

You really think Byron Russell was thrown under the bus ? I believe Jordan said numerous times before he shared the story about Russell, was what a great guy he is, and he hates to do this, but again it was something that fueled MJ's competitive fire. 

IMO it's those stories, and substance of players that need to be shared and brought into the light of day. Not kept down inside someone soul and get a cookie cutter speech, and thank you list ran off.


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## Najee (Apr 5, 2007)

23AJ said:


> I never knew about the Byron Russell story though, I really believe that was a funny story, and playful. The All Star Ice Out is well documented, but everyone has to be accountable for their actions. As you've seen in this thread alone, nobody is giving Jordan a pass. Why should Zeke, Gervin, and Earvin get one ? If they truly did Ice out Mike or not, it's what many have speculated for years. It was actually kind of nice for me hearing it addressed. And the only real reason MJ addressed it was to go along with the evolution of his career that made his drive and hunger to be the best explained. If all those things didn't happen to Michael Jordan that he shared at the Hall Of Fame, he may never have quite been the Jordan we all know and came to admire on the hardwood. I see nothing wrong with it at all.


Except no one else cares about events that people have known about for years, and it makes the person who keeps bringing up the past (and in Michael Jordan's case, some of that stuff goes back nearly 30 years) about commonly-known event come off as petty. And that's not applicable in sports, but in life.

That would be akin to me talking to an ex-girlfriend's husband about our dating relationship 25 years ago, and out of the blue saying she "used to do this and that." Or the loud uncle who talks about the time you did "so-and-so as a 5-year-old kid" and you're nearly 40. It may be appropriate to bring up if asked about it, but if it's something you bring up out of the blue with no real context, people are going to ask you, "Why don't you get over that? You haven't moved on YET?"


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## Najee (Apr 5, 2007)

23AJ said:


> Speaking of context, did you miss the part, where Jordan said it was a rumor the Ice out, and that he never believed it. But that it did spark and fuel his fire more to want to earn the respect of his peers ? I believe that was the over riding point of the story. And we have to take the man at his word. There for it isn't an attack on Zeke, Earvin, and Gervin it's a direct life experience he had with those players that helped mold him into the player he became.


Not really, especially considering Isiah Thomas and Michael Jordan have a long-standing history of competitive rivalry/begruding respect for each other. Not really, since George Gervin was signed by Chicago to replace Jordan when Jordan was injured his second season. We're not exactly talking about people who are considered friends of Jordan's.

The problem with mentioning Bryon Russell is the same problem Jordan had with mentioning some of the others I named -- it was in the context of rubbing it in Russell's face (just like he did with John Stockton and essentially Jerry Sloan, who shared the stage with him). The problem is once again this is not anything no one knows about the legend of Michael Jordan nor does anyone care save for the person who has acknowledged more than once he can't let go of the fact he's no longer playing.

The bottom line is you're free to believe what you want. However, you're also not free to try to debate how people feel differently from you on their perception of Jordan's speech (including trying to make some aspersion that people are Jordan haters, especially someone like myself who saw Jordan's career from college to the NBA). It seems like you're trying to talk over people's opinion when it's not overly glowing about Jordan.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

Najee said:


> Except no one else cares about events that people have known about for years, and it makes the person who keeps bringing up the past (and in Michael Jordan's case, some of that stuff goes back nearly 30 years) about commonly-known event come off as petty. And that's not applicable in sports, but in life.
> 
> That would be akin to me talking to an ex-girlfriend's husband about our dating relationship 25 years ago, and out of the blue saying she "used to do this and that." Or the loud uncle who talks about the time you did "so-and-so as a 5-year-old kid" and you're nearly 40. It may be appropriate to bring up if asked about it, but if it's something you bring up out of the blue with no real context, people are going to ask you, "Why don't you get over that? You haven't moved on YET?"


Hence why so many people are not always open and honest. Nobody want's to be embarrassed or exposed. I get that. However I prefer the raw honesty Jordan showed. To me Jordan was human, spoke from the heart, and saved the PC eloquence for the people that address awards, honors, and speeches in that fashion. Kudos to MJ.


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## Nightmute (Apr 12, 2007)

Sir Patchwork said:


> Well I've said enough on this topic so I'll bow out after this post. I'll just say that I don't care if it's Jordan's night or not, I think it's downright pitiful for him to disrespect and insult people who took time out of their busy lives to come honor him. Basically everyone he ripped on was there in the building to honor him. I will never defend that or justify it by saying he was just being honest. He shouldn't have done it, bottom line. It doesn't change my opinion on him as a player. He was freaking awesome. I just can't defend his personality just because he was so good at basketball.


Like I said, I agree. He's not half as good a person as he is a basketball player.


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## Najee (Apr 5, 2007)

23AJ said:


> Hence why so many people are not always open and honest. Nobody want's to be embarrassed or exposed. I get that. However I prefer the raw honesty Jordan showed. To me Jordan was human, spoke from the heart, and saved the PC eloquence for the people that address awards, honors, and speeches in that fashion. Kudos to MJ.


It doesn't seem like you even responded to the words I quoted, because I really don't see the connection between being "PC" and people who are petty and continuously live in the past.

There is a difference between speaking with honesty and speaking with no tact. I don't use the "honesty" flag as an excuse for people having no tact or class, but obviously your mileage varies. 

Again, maybe if Michael Jordan said something new I would agree with you. But since all he's doing is regurgitating stuff everyone has known for years, it comes off as petty. Again, your mileage differs from mine but from where I stand I found Jordan still refusing to acknowledge that part of his life is gone.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

Najee said:


> Not really, especially considering Isiah Thomas and Michael Jordan have a long-standing history of competitive rivalry/begruding respect for each other. Not really, since George Gervin was signed by Chicago to replace Jordan when Jordan was injured his second season. We're not exactly talking about people who are considered friends of Jordan's.
> 
> The bottom line is you're free to believe what you want. However, you're also not free to try to debate how people feel differently from you on their perception of Jordan's speech (including trying to make some aspersion that people are Jordan haters, especially someone like myself who saw Jordan's career from college to the NBA). It seems like you're trying to talk over people's opinion when it's not overly glowing about Jordan.


It's also well known that Jordan and Zeke buried the hatchet many years ago. Gervin was never brought into replace Jordan, it was a short term signing, and Gervin was on the down side of his career. If you can site an actual source regarding Gervin not like Jordan, I would be interested in reading it, as that would be news to me. And at the other end of the spectrum you have Magic Johnson who is great friends with Jordan, and MJ also called out Magic, mainly because Magic was part of the life experience Jordan went through. Context.

Of course I"m free to believe what I want to. Hence why I'm a proud American, it's a right I stand by, and one I'm proud to say I have. Of course I'm debating how you or anyone else feel's, it's a message board. We do debate here time to time. Yes I called a few posters early on MJ haters, we do have a few of those around these parts. However because I said that, shouldn't detract from my other shared thoughts, and opinions regarding the speech. Please show me where I tried to label you particularly a Jordan hater. I never have in this thread, if you read through it all you can see clearly who I was referring to. 

Naw, not talking over anyone's head. If I was to do that, I would just repeatedly post my opinions, trash everyone else's, and not give responses to anyone. I on the other hand do feel strongly about Jordan's speech, and why it's refreshing, and realistic. And for me at least a much much needed transition for popular athletes to become comfortable to share things that would normally be frowned upon. It's these inside stories that usually very select company get to know about. I for one could careless if I was around a campfire under the stars hearing about by MJ or him talking about his career at the Hall of Fame. I'll take the truth and what MJ considers crucial arcs of his career over what any other human being thinks he should say and become as a person. 

Realness > pandering.


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## Najee (Apr 5, 2007)

Again, taking stuff out of context to conveniently fit your argument.

The bottom line is the alleged "freeze-out" was in 1985, so if Michael Jordan and Isiah Thomas supposedly buried the hatchet (according to you) then this story has no relevance in 2009. But by any measure, it's not like Thomas and Jordan ever have been considered friends.

I never said George Gervin disliked Jordan or vice versa; I said Gervin and Jordan are not exactly considered friends and it's also colored by the fact that Gervin was brought in at one point to replace an injured Jordan (given you like to brag about Jordan's competitiveness, are you now going to say Jordan doesn't look at that in the same lens as some attack -- real or imagined?). Two different things.

You obviously didn't get the context of where I said about you "talking over people's head" -- I meant it in the context of where you feel you can challenge anyone's opinion that you feel as a slight against Jordan, almost to the point of obstinence. Based on reading this thread, you've challenged several people who said they didn't care for Jordan's speech with a degree of overzealousness and a sense of "You're WRONG!"

You're not letting people post their opinion of a subject that is open to various interpretations, as if it is a right-or-wrong topic. In your overzealous attacks to defend Jordan, you're trying to run over other people's opinions and show them the same apparent lack of respect Jordan showed in his speech.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

Najee said:


> It doesn't seem like you even responded to the words I quoted, because I really don't see the connection between being "PC" and people who are petty and continuously live in the past.
> 
> There is a difference between speaking with honesty and speaking with no tact. I don't use the "honesty" flag as an excuse for people having no tact or class, but obviously your mileage varies.
> 
> Again, maybe if Michael Jordan said something new I would agree with you. But since all he's doing is regurgitating stuff everyone has known for years, it comes off as petty. Again, your mileage differs from mine but from where I stand I found Jordan still refusing to acknowledge that part of his life is gone.


You see, I don't really feel like MJ was offensive and tactless. If those other NBA players who are grown men can't be accountable for their actions, words, and decisions Jordan shared about them. They have much bigger insecurities and problems, than I would like to know about. 

And of course my life experiences varies from yours. 

I hear a lot worse day to day in my line of work, than anything Michael Jordan said, or how he put t. Jordan was being honest, and baring part's of his basketball career arc that fueled his fire to be great. For me, that's what I took from the stories Jordan shared. I wasn't left thinking about guy's being embarrassed or exposed. I didn't even give it a second thought, until people posted about it on here. And ever after reading posts on here, I don't walk away from Jordans speech with any negative feelings regarding anything he said about anyone because his intent had no malice to it. It was shared to express and explain why his desire to be great was strong. I admire passion at all costs. 

Again, as I shared earlier to you, Jordan did share a story that was new to me. The Byron Russell one. I guess you were already in the know on that one. So props to you.

I believe Jordan was very forth coming in his feelings about basketball and how his mind is still completely wrapped around it. I don't see this as a bad thing though, the mans first love in life is the game of basketball, his devotion to it is unparalleled. I'm not going to stand in his way or tell him to do anything other than what makes him happy, I would say that to a friend who had a bad girlfriend in the eyes of most. However all that really count's is what's in their eyes, and what keeps them getting up for another day in this world. And what ever that is, it's good enough for me.


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## Najee (Apr 5, 2007)

Again, you're missing the point -- the ultimate point is that Michael Jordan still can't let go of the fact he is no longer an active basketball player. You're so stuck on what you feel is an "honest" speech that you keep overlooking the fact that Jordan keeps harping on those old war stories everyone has known for years is because it reflects on when HE WAS A PLAYER AND HE CAN'T LET GO OF THAT PART OF HIS LIFE.

And that's not speculation -- Jordan himself has said quite a few times in the past few months and in the past 10 years he can't let go of the fact that he's no longer a player. His speech just reinforces what he himself has said, which is what makes his speech disappointing. 

That's why he came back as a player with the Wizards -- he couldn't let go of it when he was an executive with the franchise. To a degree, it's the same thing with the Bobcats. That's what was disappointing about his speech: It's pretty obvious he mentally hasn't moved on six years after hanging them up (which would have been 11 years if he stayed retired after Chicago).

So yeah, combining those things his speech did come off as petty. And evidently I'm not the only person who thought so.


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## Tooeasy (Nov 4, 2003)

HKF said:


> You really remember HOF speeches? I mean let's be real, a year from now none of us will remember this.


Do I remember moses malones or bob mcadoos? certainly not. But michael jordan is THE face of basketball in so many senses of the word. His words and actions speaks volumes in comparison to anyone on earth pertaining to basketball, and he left a black eye on his legacy in my opinion the other night. Everything he does is memorable for people, whether good or bad, the same can't be said for 99.9% of the population.


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## DaRizzle (May 22, 2007)

Al Bundy scored 4 touchdowns in one game in high school...and he lets people know

...and what kind of person is he portrayed as in the show? Yeah...


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

Najee said:


> Again, taking stuff out of context to conveniently fit your argument.
> 
> The bottom line is the alleged "freeze-out" was in 1985, so if Michael Jordan and Isiah Thomas supposedly buried the hatchet (according to you) then this story has no relevance in 2009. But by any measure, it's not like Thomas and Jordan ever have been considered friends by any measure either.
> 
> ...


Time is relative to me. It could of been in 65, and I would of been interested in hearing about it. I guess for you time is some how a factor of what should and shouldn't be addressed. So be it.

To you the story has no relevance because they are not enemies anymore ? See I don't follow your logic. Jordan was sharing different events in his life, at one point it was the All Star Ice Out. And it helped fuel Jordan's competitive fire to be great, and get respect from his peers, that obviously many reported he didn't have at the time. That shouldn't be shared in 2009 because MJ and Zeke buried the hatchet. What would you prefer revisionist history or top secret sealed history books ? Obviously I'm being sarcastic. However I think Jordan sharing the story had everything to do with the labor of love MJ had with the game and the people involved in it. And how it made him a better player.

Wether Jordan felt threatened by Gervin or not when he was brought to Chicago, I have no idea. I like to brag about Jordan's competitiveness ? Or am I simply stating a fact, that Jordan's competitive drive is unparalleled. I prefer to think I'm addressing the latter. 

Oh no I get it just fine. Of course I can challenge anyones opinion. It's called a disagreement. Thus a debate ensues.. 

No I'm not stubborn, and yes again I've challenged people, don't see any harm in that. And it seems your posts are slowly becoming more about me, and my posting technique, and less and less about the actual debate regarding Jordans speech. But that's okay critique away. I'll respond, because I'm fully confident in sharing, and expressing my opinions. 

I don't see how I'm stopping people from posting their opinions on this topic. And various interpretations are going to meet disagreement, and once again ensues the debate at hand ... Naw I'm not running over anyone at all. And respect first of all isn't given it's earned. Anyone that's done any living in the world knows that. So if your done trying to chastise me, and my oh so overzealous defending of Michael Jordan, I will be more than happy to answer any qualms you have with my take on Jordan's speech, which wasn't disrespectful.


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## Najee (Apr 5, 2007)

Tooeasy said:


> Do I remember moses malones or bob mcadoos? certainly not. But michael jordan is THE face of basketball in so many senses of the word. His words and actions speaks volumes in comparison to anyone on earth pertaining to basketball, and he left a black eye on his legacy in my opinion the other night. Everything he does is memorable for people, whether good or bad, the same can't be said for 99.9% of the population.


Exactly. I don't even recall the Basketball Hall of Fame inductions even being AIRED on television until this year; it certainly received never the type of coverage ESPN gave it. And even though people like David Robinson, John Stockton, Jerry Sloan and Vivian Stringer were inducted, the real reason it was on TV was because Michael Jordan was being inducted.


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## King Sancho Fantastic (Jul 19, 2005)




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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

The Hall of Fame inductions have been aired on TV long before the 2009 class. I take it most of you guy's don't have expanded channels, such as NBA TV ???


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## DaRizzle (May 22, 2007)

CubanLaker said:


>


ROFL!!!!! CubanLaker for the win!! :funny:



> You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to CubanLaker again


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## Najee (Apr 5, 2007)

23AJ said:


> To you the story has no relevance because they are not enemies anymore ? See I don't follow your logic. Jordan was sharing different events in his life, at one point it was the All Star Ice Out. And it helped fuel Jordan's competitive fire to be great, and get respect from his peers, that obviously many reported he didn't have at the time. That shouldn't be shared in 2009 because MJ and Zeke buried the hatchet.


To be very honest, it doesn't seem you're following anyone's logic who is not being fanatical about supporting Michael Jordan.

Again, it's an old story that people have known for years. Nothing new, yet you're acting like it's new. People who continously live their lives defined by perceived slights (in this case, it wasn't even REAL but IMAGINED) that happened 25 years ago is a reflection of pettiness now. An inability to let go of the past.

The story has no relevance because it's Jordan's perception of a long-ago rumor and to say Magic Johnson, Isiah Thomas and George Gervin don't respect him as a player is baseless.

I really don't see the point in going around in circles on the same thing. You have your opinion (which, BTW, I never even challenged; my initial post was my opinion of the topic) and you're not going to change my opinion. Let's move on.


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## Najee (Apr 5, 2007)

23AJ said:


> The Hall of Fame inductions have been aired on TV long before the 2009 class. I take it most of you guy's don't have expanded channels, such as NBA TV ???


You do realize that NBA TV has been around only since 1999 and started being shown on major cable providers like Time Warner in 2003, right? Even expanded cable and satellite packages like DirecTV don't carry NBA TV in some markets, like mine.

And if the Basketball Hall of Fame has been televised on some of those lesser channels, it certainly was not the subject of ongoing coverage like what ESPN gave it this year. I certainly cannot recall it being shown in its entirety as a prime-time event on ESPN in previous years.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

Najee said:


> To be very honest, it doesn't seem you're following anyone's logic who is being fanatical about supporting Michael Jordan.
> 
> Again, it's an old story that people have known for years. Nothing new, yet you're acting like it's new. People who continously live their lives defined by perceived slights (in this case, it wasn't even REAL but IMAGINED) that happened 25 years ago is a reflection of pettiness now. An inability to let go of the past.
> 
> ...


Fanatical ? Wow if you really believe I'm extreme in my measures in debating in this forum, I have to question your actual accounts of meeting, and dealing with extreme people away from your computer screen. Like I said in my day to day work I see a lot of it, I would be considered a knight in shining armor compared to most of the hardened guy's I work with in the construction business. 

Yes you keep mentioning time/age in Jordan's All Star story. Again to me that has no barring or relevance in it being opened up and discussed. And I'm not acting like it's new.

But that's because we are both taking two different things from it. You seem pretty butt hurt that Jordan may have embarrassed a few former NBA players, and what I take from it is another example in Jordan's career where him being doubted and disrespected helped fuel his fire to be great. And it' wasn't imagined out of thin air. It was REPORTED, wether it was rumor or truth is up to your discretion. Jordan himself didn't believe it, but used it, to try and become better so there was no doubt in his mind his peers respected him.

Yes it seems we will have to agree to disagree on where Jordan was coming from. We both were obviously left with two very different impressions.


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## Najee (Apr 5, 2007)

I've seen your posts since I became a member of this site, 23AJ. It's fair to say that the terms "overzealous" and "fanatical" are appropriate to describe your admiration of Michael Jordan, almost to the point where you cannot be objective.

I'm not "pretty butt hurt" because I have no skin in the game where it concerns Isiah Thomas, Magic Johnson and George Gervin. But it's pretty apparent Michael Jordan is still "pretty butt hurt" about stuff that happened 25 years ago. After all, people who have to use innuendo and rumor as a motivation for life 25 years after the fact shows an inability to move on. 

As great of a player as MJ became, he still can't get over the fact he is no longer a player. After all, HE SAID THAT HIMSELF and his speech merely reinforced it.

Like I said, I don't have to be overzealous and try to run over people's opinion. It's not even an issue of you trying to have a debate, because last I recalled debates tended to take into account the other person's or group's viewpoint.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

Najee said:


> You do realize that NBA TV has been around only since 1999 and started being shown on major cable providers like Time Warner in 2003, right? Even expanded cable and satellite packages like DirecTV don't carry NBA TV in some markets, like mine.
> 
> And if the Basketball Hall of Fame has been televised on some of those lesser channels, it certainly was not the subject of ongoing coverage like what ESPN gave it this year. I certainly cannot recall it being shown in its entirety as a prime-time event on ESPN in previous years.


Yes I realize, hence me bringing it up, I have NBA TV channel through Directv. And the city I live in is far from being a Major city in the United States. I was fairly sure most cities in the US get NBA TV. As far as ESPN goes I know their other channels like Classic air the past and present Hall Of Fame inductions. Not sure about the Mothership channel though, as I stopped watching it years ago when Vitale and company ran the college BB games at nights, back i the late 80s early 90s.


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## Najee (Apr 5, 2007)

23AJ said:


> Yes I realize, hence me bringing it up, I have NBA TV channel through Directv. And the city I live in is far from being a Major city in the United States. I was fairly sure most cities in the US get NBA TV. As far as ESPN goes I know their other channels like Classic air the past and present Hall Of Fame inductions. Not sure about the Mothership channel though, as I stopped watching it years ago when Vitale and company ran the college BB games at nights, back i the late 80s early 90s.


NBA TV is a fringe channel on most providers, and it's been on cable providers like Time Warner, Cablevision and Cox only since 2003. 

I live in the Charlotte, N.C., market and have DirecTV but no NBA TV despite having the Choice Xtra package which has 200 channels. I would have to upgrade to the Premier package just to get NBA TV, which effectively would double my bill. The only time I've lived in an area that allowed me to get it was in upstate South Carolina on its expanded cable package briefly in 2003 and 2004; it was removed when the cable company changed the channel lineup.

Again, this is the first time I can recall the Basketball Hall of Fame ceremonies shown on ESPN, much less live. The only reason it was shown was because Michael Jordan was being inducted; in the past, the inductees would be mentioned in a SportsCenter brief (even when it was a commonly known superstar like Charles Barkley). I certainly never recalled SportsCenter going on about an induction the way it produced profile segments on Jordan on its shows.


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## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

Nightmute said:


> And as far as Jordan's speech goes, he's not getting a pass for being an ******* it's just something you have to acknowledge and move past, because at the end of the day he's not Hitler and he's not robbing people.


at the end of the day jordan was a dick and that's it. it doesn't have any effect on his basketball ability, but he was still a dick. it would be nice if the best player to ever play the game was a little more humble or a little less bitter but he wasn't. it doesn't change his basketball ability at all and shouldn't change how he's seen as a basketball player but it does verify who he was as a person.

for people who want to suck the dick of some fantasy they have about jordan, that doesn't matter because even if he was hitler, in their "reality" he'd be perfect. that doesn't change that reasonable people can be disappointed that jordan didn't show a little more class in his speech for being inducted into the hall of fame.


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## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

23AJ said:


> As you've seen in this thread alone, nobody is giving Jordan a pass.


no one is giving him a pass? half the people in this thread(including yourself) have given jordan a free pass because of how great of a basketball player he was.


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## Hakeem (Aug 12, 2004)

So, basically:

1) Jordan was an ******* during his playing days, therefore we should expect him to continue to act as one. There is no need for personal growth.

2) Everyone knows Jordan is an *******, therefore the noble thing for him to do is to be a completely open ******* and not attempt to act nice. For Jordan to act nice (ie momentarily desist from being an *******), would be an act of dishonesty. 

3) Being an ******* enabled Jordan to have a successful basketball career, therefore he needed to be an ******* to deliver a successful induction speech, as the aim of both basketball and the HoF induction is to win.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

rocketeer said:


> no one is giving him a pass? half the people in this thread(including yourself) have given jordan a free pass because of how great of a basketball player he was.


Why does he even need this pass? His speech was honest and from the heart, he wasn't too much of a ***** just his usual level of arrogant. Again I have to ask what did you people expect? ... HOF speeches are peppered with a sugar coating and are basically used to acknowledge everybody but the person being inducted, the people in the audience and fans at home expect the inductee to go up their and thank everybody but themselves. Why is that worth watching? 

This will not hamper his legacy like tooeasy suggested, it's just a HOF speech for crying out loud. And najee reads as if he has read every little article that has scolded MJ for not being a humble sucker.


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## Hakeem (Aug 12, 2004)

Can any of you guys actually see yourselves doing something like this? 

Would you, when accepting a major award, with many of your friends, family and contemporaries attending in your honor, go up there and talk for 20 mins about how good you are, drawing upon instances over the course of your life where those in attendance may have slighted you, and basically saying "I told you so"?

Or, knowing that the fact that you've been given the award means you've been given appropriate credit and that everyone already knows how great you are, would you go up there and warmly thank everyone so as to share the victory with those who helped you reach that level of success?

Really, in real life, what would you do?

Being the greatest of all time at anything does not entitle you to be an *******.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

Hakeem said:


> Can any of you guys actually see yourselves doing something like this?
> 
> Would you, when accepting a major award, with many of your friends, family and contemporaries attending in your honor, go up there and talk for 20 mins about how good you are, drawing upon instances over the course of your life where those in attendance may have slighted you, and basically saying "I told you so"?
> 
> ...


What does this accomplish? We are not Michael Jordan, nor have we enjoyed/endured his life. This isn't cut and dry, black or white so strop trying to make it out that way. 

Jordan is one of a kind.


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## Hakeem (Aug 12, 2004)

Porn_Player said:


> What does this accomplish? We are not Michael Jordan, nor have we enjoyed/endured his life. This isn't cut and dry, black or white so strop trying to make it out that way.
> 
> Jordan is one of a kind.


So because he was one of a kind on the basketball court, the rules of decency don't apply to MJ? He doesn't have to abide by normal codes of human conduct?

This is cut and dry. Michael Jordan's HoF induction speech was the work of a gaping *******.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

Hakeem said:


> So because he was one of a kind on the basketball court, the rules of decency don't apply to MJ? He doesn't have to abide by normal codes of human conduct?
> 
> This is cut and dry. Michael Jordan's HoF induction speech was the work of a gaping *******.


The rules of decency? You really believe his speech wasn't within the scope of decency? Have you even heard the speech? 

I love the way people are acting as if Jordan went up there and unzipped and took a slash into the front row.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

Najee said:


> NBA TV is a fringe channel on most providers, and it's been on cable providers like Time Warner, Cablevision and Cox only since 2003.
> 
> I live in the Charlotte, N.C., market and have DirecTV but no NBA TV despite having the Choice Xtra package which has 200 channels. I would have to upgrade to the Premier package just to get NBA TV, which effectively would double my bill. The only time I've lived in an area that allowed me to get it was in upstate South Carolina on its expanded cable package briefly in 2003 and 2004; it was removed when the cable company changed the channel lineup.
> 
> Again, this is the first time I can recall the Basketball Hall of Fame ceremonies shown on ESPN, much less live. The only reason it was shown was because Michael Jordan was being inducted; in the past, the inductees would be mentioned in a SportsCenter brief (even when it was a commonly known superstar like Charles Barkley). I certainly never recalled SportsCenter going on about an induction the way it produced profile segments on Jordan on its shows.


You can get the sports package that is like $10 a month that would include NBA TV, or get league pass of course for $160 a year (well worth it, IMO).

Back to the topic, Jordan is a dick and overrated due to his marketing dominance.


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## Najee (Apr 5, 2007)

Jamel Irief said:


> You can get the sports package that is like $10 a month that would include NBA TV, or get league pass of course for $160 a year (well worth it, IMO).


I saw the sports package and it looks like I already get most of those channels already. The question then would be is how many versions of SportsSouth would I want to get little more than one channel. But thank you for pointing that out.

But this is getting away from the general topic. My original point was the unlike most Basketball Hall of Fame inductions this one actually was a prime-time event on ESPN because it was Michael Jordan who was getting inducted.


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## c_dog (Sep 15, 2002)

i enjoyed the speech. the stories weren't new to me but i liked re-living those stories in the perspective of michael jordan. i found his speech very inspirational and if i were younger and still playing high school ball, it would have motivated me to go out and practice right then and there. "limits like fears are often just an illusion". that is a great quote. and the examples people mention of him throwing other people under the bus are examples he gave as what fueled his competitiveness. he was even reluctant to mention the bryon russell story because of how much he actually likes russell off the court. MJ still appreared a bit like a douche, but i thought he didn't cross the line of disrespecting other legends. the only person who i feel a little sorry for are leroy smith and his high school coach.. but those two are probably what fueled MJ's fire the most early in his career, and the coach kind of brought it on to himself anyway.


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## Najee (Apr 5, 2007)

Porn_Player said:


> What does this accomplish? We are not Michael Jordan, nor have we enjoyed/endured his life. This isn't cut and dry, black or white so strop trying to make it out that way.
> 
> Jordan is one of a kind.


You're sounding like one of those fanatics for another MJ -- Michael Jackson. Hakeem was acting about the man giving a 20-minute speech; you're acting like Michael Jordan led a nation of enslaved people across the Red Sea.



Hakeem said:


> Would you, when accepting a major award, with many of your friends, family and contemporaries attending in your honor, go up there and talk for 20 mins about how good you are, drawing upon instances over the course of your life where those in attendance may have slighted you, and basically saying "I told you so"?
> 
> Or, knowing that the fact that you've been given the award means you've been given appropriate credit and that everyone already knows how great you are, would you go up there and warmly thank everyone so as to share the victory with those who helped you reach that level of success?
> 
> Really, in real life, what would you do?


I would say the question to ask is what are the ages of some of these fanatics. At least two of them -- including Porn_Player -- didn't even see MJ play during his prime and were in grade school when he retired from Chicago. 

I believe a lot of these people are in love with the fantasy of Jordan, and see anything that is not some overzealous lovefest as a threat to that fantasy. Also, their ages tend to betray they have relatively little life experiences with which to compare this speech.


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## sMaK (Jun 13, 2002)

I saw nothing wrong with his speech. It was great.


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## Piolo_Pascual (Sep 13, 2006)

Najee said:


> The problem is that the things Michael Jordan went on about is well chronicled stuff that's been known for years, if not decades. Your point would be taken if Jordan mentioned anecdotes that no one heard before


well, a lot of people including you did'nt know why jordan picked david thompson. im sure people didnt know the colorful converstaion that took place between reinsdorf and jordan in 1986, also did'nt know pat riley had to be taken out from jordan's suite room. and i sure as hell did'nt know the story about bryon russell. and oh yeah, not a lot of people knew jordan faced similar challenges w/ her sister. 



and some people talk about decency? gtfo here. jordan did'n call out anyone out there for the sake of embarassing them. each and every story was in context of his objective for the night, which was to let everyone know that though he may have an ego bigger than jason kidd's sons head, he sure did walk the walk and can certainly talk the talk when the lights are on. so you chatise the guy for speaking from his heart. what does that make you? man, i love how some people act they have a better grasp or understanding of whats right and wrong lol.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

Najee said:


> You're sounding like one of those fanatics for another MJ -- Michael Jackson. Hakeem was acting about the man giving a 20-minute speech; you're acting like Michael Jordan led a nation of enslaved people across the Red Sea.


Where exactly did you pull this from? I think you're slightly delusional, it's almost verging on embarrassing. 




> I would say the question to ask is what are the ages of some of these fanatics. At least two of them -- including Porn_Player -- didn't even see MJ play during his prime and were in grade school when he retired from Chicago.


That's right, the technology that would allow somebody to watch something that wasn't a live event hasn't been invented yet. 



> I believe a lot of these people are in love with the fantasy of Jordan, and see anything that is not some overzealous lovefest as a threat to that fantasy. Also, their ages tend to betray they have relatively little life experiences with which to compare this speech.


I believe you are in love with your ego. You seem to be bounding around here like your word is gospel all the while using rather petty argument techniques of playing down the people who disagree with you. 

Not a single person on this site has the life experiences to compare with Jordan so you may as well stick yourself in that 'relatively little experience' bracket you so carelessly have thrown out.


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## Jakain (Sep 8, 2006)

Geebus the real issue that we're all ignoring is the astronomically high ticket prices. They used to be $200 and now they're $1000??? I've got to start up my own sports hall of fame one of these days...

Not to mention you're going to have to travel too, $$$$!


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## Najee (Apr 5, 2007)

Porn_Player said:


> Where exactly did you pull this from? I think you're slightly delusional, it's almost verging on embarrassing.


This is coming from someone who is 21 years old and never saw Michael Jordan play except in old videos and classics. You have a fantasy of Michael Jordan the player, and come off as you're in love with your fantasy. 

Now that Jordan has retired, you can imagine him in any manner you wish. It would be one thing if you actually saw him play in his prime, but your whole MJ fetish is based on historical accounts. In other words, you have no context -- which is to be expected from a child blinded by naviete.

So of course, you have no problems with MJ's speech -- after all, you have no life experiences yourself that would enable you to what it's like to speak in front of people and learn the simple concepts of professionalism and tact. A couple of years ago, you were in high school and never had to think beyond your own childish needs.


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## Najee (Apr 5, 2007)

aznzen said:


> well, a lot of people including you did'nt know why jordan picked david thompson


I wonder how you came to this ridiculous conclusion, considering this is the first time I've been on this site in some time.

It's equally hilarious since I live in the hometown of David Thompson (Shelby, N.C.) and have known of Michael Jordan's admiration of Thompson since MJ was at the University of North Carolina (which would be in the early '80s, for those keeping track). I'm really the LAST person on this site for whom you want to make that ridiculous allegation about why Jordan picked Thompson. 

You may actually want to think about your comments before you pull ridiculous statements out of the air. Deliberately lying doesn't help your argument -- it makes you look like an idiot.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

Najee said:


> This is coming from someone who is 21 years old and never saw Michael Jordan play except in old videos and classics. You have a fantasy of Michael Jordan the player, and come off as you're in love with your fantasy.
> 
> Now that Jordan has retired, you can imagine him in any manner you wish. It would be one thing if you actually saw him play in his prime, but your whole MJ fetish is based on historical accounts. In other words, you have no context -- which is to be expected from a child blinded by naviete.
> 
> So of course, you have no problems with MJ's speech -- after all, you have no life experiences yourself that would enable you to what it's like to speak in front of people and learn the simple concepts of professionalism and tact. A couple of years ago, you were in high school and never had to think beyond your own childish needs.


:laugh: 

I have watched Jordan play many, many, many times. In old tapes, in old classics, in the playoffs and in boring old regular season. It may come as a suprise to you but as a basketball fan I try to watch as much as I can, and it isn't exactly hard to get hold of old Jordan games. 

Your condescending attitude is a joke, you know nothing about me nor the life I have lived. What gives you the right to act in such a manner? You're nothing but a username. 

I have no problem with MJ's speech because I like to think I have enough of an understanding of him as a player and a person. I realise what I am going to get when Jordan is involved, and I'm sorry if his speech got your little professional panties in a twist. If you wanted a sugar candy speech at least you got your fill with Stockton. 

Please continue with your wild claims it really is making my Sunday afternoon more enjoyable.


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## Najee (Apr 5, 2007)

Porn_Player said:


> :laugh: I have watched Jordan play many, many, many times. In old tapes, in old classics, in the playoffs and in boring old regular season. It may come as a suprise to you but as a basketball fan I try to watch as much as I can, and it isn't exactly hard to get hold of old Jordan games.


Yep, and there are plenty of Michael Jackson zealots who bought MJ's old music when he died and all of a sudden they became "experts" of all things MJ. Some of the nutcases weren't even around during the '90s and certainly not in the '70s and '80s, but listening to those albums made them "experts" on the man.

You sound exactly like them to me -- you're in love with a fantasy of how you envision your MJ and now he is removed as a player (and thus not in a position to help or hurt his situation) you can draw up any picture you want of him.

Like I said, you have no life experience on which to draw so to you there is no problem with Michael Jordan coming off as holding petty grudges that happened years before you were born. Again, you probably still are being supported by your parent or parents so I would expect someone blindly in love with a fantasy at your age not try to find fault in Jordan's speech.


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## Piolo_Pascual (Sep 13, 2006)

Najee said:


> So of course, you have no problems with MJ's speech -- after all, you have no life experiences yourself that would enable you to what it's like to speak in front of people and learn the simple concepts of professionalism and tact. A couple of years ago, you were in high school and never had to think beyond your own childish needs.


thats kinda like a d-bag thing of you to say. i mean seriously, you're being an elitist, but in reality you're just another poser behind a computer. your kind makes me laugh, talking about concepts of professionalism as if you're prestigious enough to associate yourself in jordan's category.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

Najee said:


> Yep, and there are plenty of Michael Jackson zealots who bought MJ's old music when he died and all of a sudden they became "experts" of all things MJ. Some of the nutcases weren't even around during the '90s and certainly not in the '70s and '80s, but listening to those albums made them "experts" on the man.
> 
> You sound exactly like them to me -- you're in love with a fantasy of how you envision your MJ and now he is removed as a player (and thus not in a position to help or hurt his situation) you can draw up any picture you want of him.
> 
> Like I said, you have no life experience on which to draw so to you there is no problem with Michael Jordan coming off as holding petty grudges that happened years before you were born. Again, you probably still are being supported by your parent or parents so I would expect someone blindly in love with a fantasy at your age not try to find fault in Jordan's speech.


:rofl:

Stop it your killing me. You are quite the comedy character. 

Please, enlighten me on what life experiences you have had that are comparable to Michael Jordans? Now you mention it wasn't it the great Najee who wore a little red strip and drained the buzzer beating winner against the Jazz in '98?

And again you failed. I live in an apartment with my girl, I work, I study and I am very much self dependant. I haven't lived at home for over 4 years now, but bless you for trying to make me look silly.


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## Najee (Apr 5, 2007)

aznzen said:


> thats kinda like a d-bag thing of you to say. i mean seriously, you're being an elitist, but in reality you're just another poser behind a computer. your kind makes me laugh, talking about concepts of professionalism as if you're prestigious enough to associate yourself in jordan's category.


I guess it beats being someone who deliberately lies like yourself. How about we concentrate on the fact that you like to lie in a sad attempt to make points?

So where in your fantasy did I say I did not know why Michael Jordan picked David Thompson to introduce him for the Basketball Hall of Fame? Was in the fact I haven't been on this site in a month? Was it the fact I actually LIVE IN THOMPSON'S HOMETOWN?


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## Piolo_Pascual (Sep 13, 2006)

Najee said:


> I wonder how you came to this ridiculous conclusion, considering this is the first time I've been on this site in some time.


uh, that conclusion came from _you_. you said everyone has heard his stories, as if that's some kind of universal truth.


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## Najee (Apr 5, 2007)

Porn_Player said:


> And again you failed. I live in an apartment with my girl, I work, I study and I am very much self dependant. I haven't lived at home for over 4 years now, but bless you for trying to make me look silly.


That makes you a college student -- that doesn't make you an adult. It's fair to say you've never had a serious job, beyond what a child can get in today's society. Moreover, one who is dependent on living with someone to help make ends meet. But like I said, you're still recently removed from living with your parents -- 21 is not exactly a long way from 17 or 18, despite what you believe.

Again, you really have no context to which to draw professionalism and tact in a public setting so I really don't expect you to think what Michael Jordan said could be considered as petty and words coming from someone who has admitted he can't let go of the past.


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## Najee (Apr 5, 2007)

aznzen said:


> uh, that conclusion came from _you_. you said everyone has heard his stories, as if that's some kind of universal truth.


Anzen, YOU SAID THIS TO ME:



aznzen said:


> well, a lot of people *including you* did'nt know why jordan picked david thompson.


You can't even keep up with what you said. So how did you come to this wonderful conclusion that I didn't know why Michael Jordan picked David Thompson to introduce him to the Basketball Hall of Fame?

Was it the fact I haven't been on here in a month? Last I looked, you can look on someone's profile and look at their post history and see exactly what people posted.

Last I looked, I was the only person on this site whose type was in a red font so you can save the "mistaken identity" excuse.

Just admit you were wrong and move on -- the reality is you got busted, and the person you tried to lie on was ironically the person who actually lives in Thompson's hometown and has known about how Jordan idolized Thompson as a kid since Jordan was in college. 

So I guess if you're young and didn't know the connection that would be one thing, but Jordan's admiration of Thompson has been chronicled for decades. But the more important thing is that you have been caught in a lie saying I didn't know why Jordan picked Thompson to introduce him.


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## Piolo_Pascual (Sep 13, 2006)

so, you live in david thompson's hometown and that automatically lets you in his inner circle? you read jordan's personal diaries? sure, jordan idolized thompson, but he himself said, a lot of people didnt know why, thompson was picked to represent him @ the podium.



anyway we're all throwing insults here, and thats not my cup of tea for this morning. i was only disagreeing on the part where you said, jordan was telling people stories they already know, which is partially wrong. be that as it may, i just hope posters here would drop the holier than thou attitude when they dont have any real clue how jordan's supposed demons got the best out of everyone.


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## Najee (Apr 5, 2007)

aznzen said:


> so, you live in david thompson's hometown, does that automatically let you in his inner circle? dont think so man.


No, the point is YOU GOT CAUGHT IN A LIE SAYING I DIDN'T KNOW WHY MICHAEL JORDAN PICKED DAVID THOMPSON to introduce him into the Basketball Hall of Fame. Not only did I not say anything like that, I haven't even been on this site for a month so how did you come to this ridiculous conclusion is why I call you a liar.

It really became hilarious when the fact I live in Thompson's hometown and heard Jordan talk about his admiration of Thompson since the '80s. It's a FACTUAL ERROR, one you didn't even bother to verify before making your wild allegation -- not to mention it's all the more ridiculous considering I'm also the only person I know of on this site that posts in a distinctive font and typeface.

So I would rather be called "holier-than-thou" by someone's unfounded OPINION than to be called a liar based on FACTS. Your call.


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## DNKO (Dec 23, 2008)

Whoooaa deranged virtual geekies going BERSERK in here haha


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

Najee should find a 40 and over message board to post at. Every thread you enter you wind up denouncing anyone's opinion because you have loose wrinkly skin and arthritis in your knees.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

Najee said:


> That makes you a college student -- that doesn't make you an adult. It's fair to say you've never had a serious job, beyond what a child can get in today's society. Moreover, one who is dependent on living with someone to help make ends meet. But like I said, you're still recently removed from living with your parents -- 21 is not exactly a long way from 17 or 18, despite what you believe.
> 
> Again, you really have no context to which to draw professionalism and tact in a public setting so I really don't expect you to think what Michael Jordan said could be considered as petty and words coming from someone who has admitted he can't let go of the past.



I'm a University student, I finished college a few years back. It is also not 'fair to say' I've never had a serious job because I worked in a kitchen 36+ hours a week for a year back when I left school, quite the adult thing to do you may agree. But this isn't about me claiming to be an adult this you being so blinded by your own ego you choose to dismiss anyones opinion that isn't a bonafide adult that has 10 years solid work experience. HKF seemed to be thinking the same as me, the guy is a Hollywood writer and his life probably puts yours to shame, on what grounds do you dismiss him?

You once again dodged my question of what life experiences you have enjoyed that are similar to those Michael Jordan did. You certainly have enjoyed prying into my personal life so it's about time you told the world what exactly occurred in your life to say you can understand where Michael Jordan is coming from. 

For somebody who is attempting to come across like my father you're coming at me with some rather petty arguments. I suggest you take a look at your behaviour before you continue to talk down to everybody in site.


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## Najee (Apr 5, 2007)

aznzen said:


> sure, jordan idolized thompson, but he himself said, a lot of people didnt know why, thompson was picked to represent him @ the podium.


Has it not occurred to you, though, is that you don't have to be in Michael Jordan's or David Thompson's "inner circle" to know that? Jordan has given numerous interviews over the years saying Thompson was his idol growing up, along with the likes of Julius Erving and Walter Davis -- he said that when he was at UNC, he said that when he played in the NBA and he said since he retired finally from the game.

The reason why Jordan explained picking Thompson is because The Skywalker is a relatively unknown person to those past a certain age. I doubt the average person even knows who he is, even hardcore NBA fans under the age of 40. I've had conversations with a lot of basketball fans who didn't even know Thompson is regarded as one of the best players in college basketball history and that was before Jordan picking him to introduce him.

If the common person is aware of Thompson's legend, it's largely from his college days at N.C. State and then his relatively brief but brilliant NBA career. So I wouldn't be surprised if someone, say, 30 years old who follows the NBA didn't know who The Skywalker was because his name really doesn't come up that often with players from that era. 

I would say someone who started followed basketball in the '90s associate Jordan with some other hall of famers, like a peer like Charles Barkley or a former college teammate like James Worthy. A lot of people know the significance of Erving regardless of era, so I could see why someone with cursory knowledge could associate Jordan with Dr. J. I obviously can see why someone would think Jordan's college coach Dean Smith would be a possibility.

But was I surprised Jordan picked Thompson? Not at all. But then again, I know who Thompson is and how Jordan talked about how he idolized him as a youngster. Moreover, Jordan made that known over the years. Again, I didn't need to "secret death grip handshake" in some exclusive club to know that.


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## Piolo_Pascual (Sep 13, 2006)

Najee said:


> No, the point is YOU GOT CAUGHT IN A LIE SAYING I DIDN'T KNOW WHY MICHAEL JORDAN PICKED DAVID THOMPSON to introduce him into the Basketball Hall of Fame. Not only did I not say anything like that, I haven't even been on this site for a month so how did you come to this ridiculous conclusion is why I call you a liar.
> 
> It really became hilarious when the fact I live in Thompson's hometown and heard Jordan talk about his admiration of Thompson since the '80s. It's a FACTUAL ERROR, one you didn't even bother to verify before making your wild allegation -- not to mention it's all the more ridiculous considering I'm also the only person I know of on this site that posts in a distinctive font and typeface.
> 
> So I would rather be called "holier-than-thou" by someone's unfounded OPINION than to be called a liar based on FACTS. Your call.




you just blew it out of proportion. its not a lie when i dont even know you. was it a wrong assunption? yeah, sure did, so what, move on. also, a lie would be if im feeding you brocolli and i said they're tomatoes. like you said, its a FACTUAL ERROR. learn to differentiate between the two.


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## Piolo_Pascual (Sep 13, 2006)

Jamel Irief said:


> Najee should find a 40 and over message board to post at. Every thread you enter you wind up denouncing anyone's opinion because you have loose wrinkly skin and arthritis in your knees.


i was going to say this. najee is a very good contributor, no doubt, but he seems to take everything so personal soemtimes.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

This is getting ridiculous. I think it's time to bow out and allow Najee to continue furiously slam that keyboard with his arthritic hands. 

Enjoy getting your stair lift up those stairs and into your special custom made bed you grumpy old git.


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## Najee (Apr 5, 2007)

aznzen said:


> you just blew it out of proportion. its not a lie when i dont even know you. was it a wrong assunption? yeah, sure did, so what, move on.


A factual error is a lie when you say someone did something he or she clearly didn't. You got caught in a lie and now you don't want to eat your crow -- when you're to the point you're drawing amnesia over your own statements that you said a few minutes prior, you know you're a liar.


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## Piolo_Pascual (Sep 13, 2006)

Najee said:


> Has it not occurred to you, though, is that you don't have to be in Michael Jordan's or David Thompson's "inner circle" to know that? Jordan has given numerous interviews over the years saying Thompson was his idol growing up, along with the likes of Julius Erving and Walter Davis -- he said that when he was at UNC, he said that when he played in the NBA and he said since he retired finally from the game.
> 
> The reason why Jordan explained picking Thompson is because The Skywalker is a relatively unknown person to those past a certain age. I doubt the average person even knows who he is, even hardcore NBA fans under the age of 40. I've had conversations with a lot of basketball fans who didn't even know Thompson is regarded as one of the best players in college basketball history and that was before Jordan picking him to introduce him.
> 
> ...



not a lot of us here have a vast and rich understanding of basketball history, i guess you are one of the few and thats respectable. again, i made the WRONG assupmtion that you dont know why mj picked david for the ceremony. i apologize. ill move on from here.


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## Piolo_Pascual (Sep 13, 2006)

Porn_Player said:


> This is getting ridiculous. I think it's time to bow out and allow Najee to continue furiously slam that keyboard with his arthritic hands.
> 
> Enjoy getting your stair lift up those stairs and into your special custom made bed you grumpy old git.


qft. 



Najee said:


> a few minutes prior, you know you're a liar.


everyone lies. im sure your dad lied to your mom at one point, thats why you were conceived


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## Najee (Apr 5, 2007)

aznzen said:


> not a lot of us here have a vast and rich understanding of basketball history, i guess you are one of the few and thats respectable. again, i made the WRONG assupmtion that you dont know why mj picked david for the ceremony. i apologize. ill move on from here.


No, you just have a bunch of people on this site barely able to vote who think watching ESPN Classics makes them an "expert." 

If some of those zealots really were Michael Jordan fans as they claim, they would have known David Thompson was his favorite player growing up. It's not like that information is in some classified file guarded by the CIA. Moreover, it's one thing to make a bad assumption and it's another to outright lie in order to try to make a ridiculous point.

Like I said, given the fact that Jordan has said repeatedly he still has problems letting go of the fact he is no longer an active player this speech merely reinforces it. It's disappointing that as much as he accomplished in his life he still is holding on to the past. When he was going through those phases in his life at the time, it certainly can be a motivator -- but 25 years after the fact, it comes off as petty.


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## Najee (Apr 5, 2007)

Porn_Player said:


> You once again dodged my question of what life experiences you have enjoyed that are similar to those Michael Jordan did. You certainly have enjoyed prying into my personal life so it's about time you told the world what exactly occurred in your life to say you can understand where Michael Jordan is coming from.


You don't have to "live Michael Jordan's life" in order to be mature and an adult. I know the forum of public speaking and working with people and I do have life experience in those and other contexts of working in the professional world. 

Again, bringing up old grudges 25 and 30 years ago and saying as recently as a week ago you cannot move on to the reality that a part of your life has passed does come off as petty. It doesn't matter if it was a former great athlete, a former politician, a pastor or a business leader -- anyone who would have made that speech under those circumstances would come off as petty.

It's not as much as Michael Jordan's speech, but his speech in addition to his own comments and actions in recent weeks, months and years. He's said in recent weeks and months that he looks at being inducted into the Basketball Hall of Fame as a statement his mortality has hit him in the face. It wasn't as much of a celebration to him as the fact he will never be able to drive on a seven-footer and dunking on him. He literally has made the correlation between his induction and dying on more than one occasion.

Again, that's what adults do -- most of them move on with their lives. In a way, Jordan never has moved on and that has been well documented (many times, in his own words) over the years. That's what was sad and disappointing about Friday night, IMO.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

DNKO said:


> This is exhausting to read. You guys are impossible. You can't possibly talk like that in real life. I don't know who would tolerate to hear that crap.


YOU SUCK BIG TIME HAHAHAHAH! 

Better?


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## DNKO (Dec 23, 2008)




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## Chan Ho Nam (Jan 9, 2007)

dnko's sig is more interesting than any of his posts


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## ChrisRichards (Jul 17, 2007)

DNKO's posts are certainly more interesting than Najee's long-winded whining. Haven't seen someone so worked up over nothing in a long time.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

ChrisRichards said:


> DNKO's posts are certainly more interesting than Najee's long-winded whining. Haven't seen someone so worked up over nothing in a long time.


Well, in his defense, he has given you guys more credit than you deserve. He probably should have stopped after the 2nd or 3rd time of articulating the exact same point. It's clear at that point that apologists were either too stubborn or too dumb to acknowledge it.


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## DNKO (Dec 23, 2008)

chairman5 said:


> dnko's sig is more interesting than any of his posts


You are the sunshine of my life.


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## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

Porn_Player said:


> Why does he even need this pass? His speech was honest and from the heart, he wasn't too much of a ***** just his usual level of arrogant. Again I have to ask what did you people expect? ... HOF speeches are peppered with a sugar coating and are basically used to acknowledge everybody but the person being inducted, the people in the audience and fans at home expect the inductee to go up their and thank everybody but themselves. Why is that worth watching?


what did i expect? i expected him to show a little class and not be such an *******.


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## eddymac (Jun 23, 2005)

It was a good speech and Jordan has always been known to be cocky anyway so to the people that know him its not a big deal.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

Stop attacking each other's posting styles and get back to the topic at hand please.


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## DNKO (Dec 23, 2008)

_In the early 1990s when Alonzo Mourning was on a tear and evolving from good young player to NBA All-Star, my sports editor George Solomon told me to follow Mourning for a few days and write about him, seeing as there is always interest reader interest in a Georgetown alum who was becoming a star. I went to Chicago for the first stop because it was always great to measure an up-and-coming player against the reigning champion Chicago Bulls and because I could sneak home for a minute and see family in Chicago -- and I could see Jordan play, which was always like going to the theatre.

Anyway, I went to the Bulls locker room, chatted with Jordan for a few minutes, asking him during that time about Mourning and what he thought of his development. It dawned on Jordan I had come "home" (his and mine) to write about Mourning, not the Bulls, not MJ. And Jordan took great delight, beginning in 1982, in beating Georgetown players. He never let Patrick Ewing forget who won that NCAA championship game. But this was something Jordan could use on some non-descript night to get into his pre-game rage.

"So you came home to write about one of your Georgetown boys?" Jordan said, becoming annoyed. "You didn't come to see me; you came to see that Georgetown kid? Suppose he doesn't score tonight? What you gonna write in The Washington Post then?"

Jordan was full-on by then and I'd seen this enough to know to pretty much shut up -- though I did say, "What do you mean, 'suppose he doesn't score?' "

Jordan said, "What don't you understand about, 'he ain't gonna score'?" I felt bad that Mourning was going to pay for this slight more than me. 

Keep in mind Mourning was averaging about 20 points per game and Jordan, a guard, wouldn't be the guy guarding him ... not exactly.

I wish I could remember the exact game and find the box score, but I recall that when Jordan left the game the Bulls had a huge lead and Morning had three points. The Bulls defense had smothered Mourning, and Jordan had a couple of those swoop-in strips on double-teams Mourning never knew were coming.

In the locker room afterward, Jordan called me over and said quietly, "Listen, don't be rough on Mourning in your story. ... He's going to be a great player. ...His left hand isn't there yet though. He can't go left. I knew we'd overplay him and not let him go right and he couldn't really score on our defense. ...But don't go crazy criticizing him; he'll figure it out ...okay?"

Yep, got it._





Apparently, many of you are just playing stupid as if you don't know what being Jordan was all about. How petty...


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

Jamel Irief said:


> Najee should find a 40 and over message board to post at. Every thread you enter you wind up denouncing anyone's opinion because you have loose wrinkly skin and arthritis in your knees.





Jamel Irief said:


> Stop attacking each other's posting styles and get back to the topic at hand please.


:laugh:


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

DNKO said:


> _In the early 1990s when Alonzo Mourning was on a tear and evolving from good young player to NBA All-Star, my sports editor George Solomon told me to follow Mourning for a few days and write about him, seeing as there is always interest reader interest in a Georgetown alum who was becoming a star. I went to Chicago for the first stop because it was always great to measure an up-and-coming player against the reigning champion Chicago Bulls and because I could sneak home for a minute and see family in Chicago -- and I could see Jordan play, which was always like going to the theatre.
> 
> Anyway, I went to the Bulls locker room, chatted with Jordan for a few minutes, asking him during that time about Mourning and what he thought of his development. It dawned on Jordan I had come "home" (his and mine) to write about Mourning, not the Bulls, not MJ. And Jordan took great delight, beginning in 1982, in beating Georgetown players. He never let Patrick Ewing forget who won that NCAA championship game. But this was something Jordan could use on some non-descript night to get into his pre-game rage.
> 
> ...


That's bad ***. Jordan was straight gangster.


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## ChrisRichards (Jul 17, 2007)

LOL Porn Player, repped.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

Porn Player owned thread. :bowen:


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

Porn_Player said:


> :laugh:


I attacked a comment he made about youngsters not having sense, not saying reading his posts are boring or uninteresting.

IE I didn't say anything about the posts were people were calling each Jordan haters or Jordan oral sex providers.


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

This thread reminds me of how many youngsters we have in our poster community...
Props to the posters who remember how it was.


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## Piolo_Pascual (Sep 13, 2006)

DNKO said:


> _In the early 1990s when Alonzo Mourning was on a tear and evolving from good young player to NBA All-Star, my sports editor George Solomon told me to follow Mourning for a few days and write about him, seeing as there is always interest reader interest in a Georgetown alum who was becoming a star. I went to Chicago for the first stop because it was always great to measure an up-and-coming player against the reigning champion Chicago Bulls and because I could sneak home for a minute and see family in Chicago -- and I could see Jordan play, which was always like going to the theatre.
> 
> Anyway, I went to the Bulls locker room, chatted with Jordan for a few minutes, asking him during that time about Mourning and what he thought of his development. It dawned on Jordan I had come "home" (his and mine) to write about Mourning, not the Bulls, not MJ. And Jordan took great delight, beginning in 1982, in beating Georgetown players. He never let Patrick Ewing forget who won that NCAA championship game. But this was something Jordan could use on some non-descript night to get into his pre-game rage.
> 
> ...



i was going to say this is one of those urban legends stories by jordan, but the bolded part above confirmed it for me that this conversation took place. if anyone remembers, jordan said the same thing about mourning to patrick ewing in the 96 all star game. 


this can be found on jordan's above and beyond video.


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## DNKO (Dec 23, 2008)

PauloCatarino said:


> This thread reminds me of how many youngsters we have in our poster community...
> Props to the posters who remember how it was.


Define "youngsters". 34 years old? 55? Whats a "youngster" to you?


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## Piolo_Pascual (Sep 13, 2006)

paulo and ehmunro are both pre historic. they're both older than the bible. that should give you an idea.


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## mysterio (May 20, 2003)

He could've been more tactful given the venue, but Jordan isn't mentally wired like the rest of us, so it was no surprise. To be the best, you have to be different. This speech just confirms his pathologically competitive nature. He confirmed how his disposition is based on him being repeatedly underestimated before his nba career (getting cut from his varsity team, drafted 3rd, etc), and based on his desire to prove himself superior. If he's ever slighted by anyone, he makes it his mission to exact revenge to prove them wrong, whether it's on the same day he was slighted or years later at a HOF induction ceremony. Jordan certainly did a good job of explaining his mentality to everyone. He wasn't really putting anyone down. More than anything else, he just let his adversaries know that he needed them to satisfy that desire to overcome challenges and dominate. It really had more of a "nothing personal, I'm just a competitive psycho" air to it. It was a good speech.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

I hate that whole varsity slight thing, it's way overblown. HE WAS A SOPHOMORE. Sure not making a legendary basketball player a varsity guy until his junior year is beyond rare, but maybe his coach though a year dominating JV guys was better for his development than sharing the wealth on varsity.


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## mysterio (May 20, 2003)

Jamel Irief said:


> I hate that whole varsity slight thing, it's way overblown. HE WAS A SOPHOMORE. Sure not making a legendary basketball player a varsity guy until his junior year is beyond rare, but maybe his coach though a year dominating JV guys was better for his development than sharing the wealth on varsity.


Fair enough. I guess no specific event really made him the way he is, it's just in his nature, period. Whatever circumstances he would have experienced, he was destined to be an all-time NBA great. He pretty much seems to look for things to label as his motivational firewood. In life, you find what you look for.


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## michelangelo (Apr 29, 2009)

Pretty much spot on about his sociopathic competitive nature. 

But I didn't think of it as a high quality speech. Jordan's never been much of an orator, much less a stirring one. The guests laugh out of nervousness: why risk raising his ire?



mysterio said:


> He could've been more tactful given the venue, but Jordan isn't mentally wired like the rest of us, so it was no surprise. To be the best, you have to be different. *This speech just confirms his pathologically competitive nature.* He confirmed how his disposition is based on him being repeatedly underestimated before his nba career (getting cut from his varsity team, drafted 3rd, etc), and based on his desire to prove himself superior. If he's ever slighted by anyone, he makes it his mission to exact revenge to prove them wrong, whether it's on the same day he was slighted or years later at a HOF induction ceremony. Jordan certainly did a good job of explaining his mentality to everyone. He wasn't really putting anyone down. More than anything else, he just let his adversaries know that he needed them to satisfy that desire to overcome challenges and dominate. It really had more of a "nothing personal, I'm just a competitive psycho" air to it. *It was a good speech.*


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## game11523 (Apr 19, 2009)

jordans speach wasn't that bad, that yahoo page added alota sour cream into there tacos.


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## michelangelo (Apr 29, 2009)

Times have changed. I didn't even recognize that guy on stage they introduced as Michael Jordan. His face was bloated, his suit ridiculously oversized, and he was strangely staring down much of the time. It looked more like Shawn Kemp on trial during a paternity suit than "The Greatest of All Time" ushering himself into the immortal Hall.


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## JerryWest (Jun 24, 2002)

I'm not even a fan of Jordan but I liked his speech. People always complain about not knowing the real Jordan. The HoF speech should be something that describes the person and how the got to where they are today in basketball. You might not like what you see, but at least he revealed himself. Better than some BS thank you mom and dad, thank you god, thank you wonderful teammates, bye speech.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

Jamel Irief said:


> I hate that whole varsity slight thing, it's way overblown. HE WAS A SOPHOMORE. Sure not making a legendary basketball player a varsity guy until his junior year is beyond rare, but maybe his coach though a year dominating JV guys was better for his development than sharing the wealth on varsity.


and he proceeded to become a hs star, break the mcdonald's game scoring record, and be one of the great collegiate players ever. he was a prodigy.


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## MarioChalmers (Mar 26, 2004)

Najee said:


> You don't have to "live Michael Jordan's life" in order to be mature and an adult. I know the forum of public speaking and working with people and I do have life experience in those and other contexts of working in the professional world.
> 
> Again, bringing up old grudges 25 and 30 years ago and saying as recently as a week ago you cannot move on to the reality that a part of your life has passed does come off as petty. It doesn't matter if it was a former great athlete, a former politician, a pastor or a business leader -- anyone who would have made that speech under those circumstances would come off as petty.
> 
> ...


I like this post. It doesn't necessarily provide an argument for or against Jordan, but it's rich in context. 

Let's establish first that I am a Jordan fan. I love Michael Jordan. I started playing basketball because of Michael Jordan. I got a wound in my tongue because I fell over trying to do a lay-up like Michael Jordan. 

But I am sad as much as I am happy because of his speech. 

Happy because I hadn't heard from him in so long; because I hadn't relived his highlights with such a large (television) community in years; and because I'm happy that he's gotten a chance to address the world regarding his greatness. I don't think I have to justify his greatness. To me, he is the greatest player ever because he was the player who dazzled me the most, who made me stand up and scream "THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE" to the television. I've only seen one player (Dwyane Wade) who has dazzled me nearly as much. I plead that other people do not argue with me. I maintain that this whole GOAT thing is just a matter of taste, none of you are wrong. 

I am sad, though, because this video, as the previous poster mentioned, shows the mortality of Michael Jordan. I remember when Michael Jackson died, my little brother mistook his name for Michael Jordan. I realized then that yes, Michael Jordan will, one day, die. One day, when the world is all futuristic and ****, and sport becomes obsolete, Michael Jordan will be erased from everyone's memories. 

Maybe this is why the Jordan fans understand his speech. We're not necessarily sucking his dick, we're just holding on to parts of our past that we don't want people to forget. Our elders do the same, they maintain that Wilt Chamberlain is the GOAT, that fax machines are instruments of the devil. I don't think we deserve any blame if we decide to support Jordan, it's human nature to fear loss, and Jordan's speech reminded us that we lost something back in the 90s and we'll probably never get it back. 

So forgive the nostalgia. I know it might be hard to do for people who don't have fond memories of the man, but one day when Kobe (or whoever else) retires, you'll feel it too. I hate sounding like an old man, and I'm probably not in a position to do so, it's just Jordan and the childhood he reminds me of.


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## ChrisRichards (Jul 17, 2007)

I took it as MJ reminiscing with his 'enemies'

I guess some posters in here wanted him to hug everyone and say THX K I LOVE U ALL BYE HUGS AND KISSES

Maybe cause the young kids of today post on here, they grew up watching Pokemon.

I grew up watching GI Joe blow the crap out of each other with guns and tanks. 

If you have any testosterone in you, you liked MJ's speech.


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## c_dog (Sep 15, 2002)

hey i liked pokemon, and i liked the speech. they must have been watching care bears.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

Am I the only person in that early 20s age group that's on Najee's side? You guys really haven't said much to deflect his point, you're pretty much secretly acknowledging he's right and getting old jokes off.

Jordan played in 1200+ games, if you watched 100 tapes, which I doubt you have, that's still just 10%. You can pretend to know what you're talking about based on hindsight but I know I don't so I stay out of these discussions. It's best to stop pretending you're some historian based off ESPN Classic (which is only going to show his *best* games) and just pay attention to Lebron, Wade and co. so in 15 years you can talk your talk and laugh at how kids who didn't see anything but Lebron at 35 think they know who he as.


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## ChrisRichards (Jul 17, 2007)

1. Alonzo used to yell and scream all the time, so MJ dunks on his face multiple times and screams right back at him, like saying "IM THE MASTER HERE, YOU MY B"

2. Mutombo used to finger wave all the time, so MJ dunks on him multiple times and wags the finger back.


This is MJ. Don't act surprised and butt-hurt when MJ wants to reminisce of how much he beat their butts. He's the man.


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## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

ChrisRichards said:


> This is MJ. Don't act surprised and butt-hurt when MJ wants to reminisce of how much he beat their butts. He's the man.


why should being a great basketball make it acceptable for him to be an ******* during his speech?


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## ChrisRichards (Jul 17, 2007)

That's your opinion. I think you are overexaggerating.

Many of the rest of us, including respected people like Michael Wilbon and such in the media, loved his speech.

We find nothing wrong with it. Ever heard of going down memory lane and joking with people?


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## Tooeasy (Nov 4, 2003)

Theres countless numbers of athletes who are a completely different individual on the court/field/whatever than they are in their everyday walk of life when they take the jersey off. Knowing how to differentiate the two is what makes you look like either a fiery competitive individual with love for the game, or a pompous *** all the way around. I think we all know that Jordan isn't an *** all the time, but it's a fair assessment at this point to say that when the cameras are on him, he is.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

Dre™ said:


> Am I the only person in that early 20s age group that's on Najee's side? You guys really haven't said much to deflect his point, you're pretty much secretly acknowledging he's right and getting old jokes off.
> 
> Jordan played in 1200+ games, if you watched 100 tapes, which I doubt you have, that's still just 10%. You can pretend to know what you're talking about based on hindsight but I know I don't so I stay out of these discussions. It's best to stop pretending you're some historian based off ESPN Classic (which is only going to show his *best* games) and just pay attention to Lebron, Wade and co. so in 15 years you can talk your talk and laugh at how kids who didn't see anything but Lebron at 35 think they know who he as.


I understand fully where Najee is coming from, I just found him to be over zealous in his criticisms of Jordans speech and somewhat disrespectful towards my say (which is neither here nor there, but if he's using the 'child' card on me and judging my life despite getting countless things wrong, I'm going to find it difficult to respect his opinion) ...

LeBron plays 82 games a year plus playoffs, how many a year do you watch? I'm guessing between the 10-20 mark so over a ten year career where he has played 900 games you've only watched 150 or so. My point is you really don't need to watch every game he plays in, yet you can still understand him as a baller because you have everything else (media exposure blah blah blah) ... 

I may have missed Michael coming into the league, but that doesn't mean I can't understand him as a player. I have read countless books, watched countless interviews and of course read countless opinions on the man. I would say my grasp was pretty solid. 

I'm not glorifying his speech, he simply went up and did what he wanted to do from the heart, and for that I have respect.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

ChrisRichards said:


> Maybe cause the young kids of today post on here, they grew up watching Pokemon.
> 
> I grew up watching GI Joe blow the crap out of each other with guns and tanks.
> 
> If you have any testosterone in you, you liked MJ's speech.


Jim Traber and Al Eschbech, who are both older and both are rough around the edges, thought the speech was inappropriate. There goes your dumb *** theory.


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## EGarrett (Aug 12, 2002)

Sir Patchwork said:


> Anyone with a grasp of what these ceremonies are about would tell you his speech was hard to watch.


I have a grasp of what ceremonies are about: Nothing. Awards, trophies, plaques and titles are shallow and meaningless. The players in the hall of fame have already done the most important thing, did their job on the highest level and brought enlightenment and enjoyment to fans the world over.



> Yahoo has a frontpage article about it. It's okay to concede a weakness in Jordan as a person, since I know it's far too difficult to concede any weakness in him as a player.
> 
> Some of you kill me. Jordan could call you a moron, insult your mother and tell you to unzip his pants and you'd happily fulfill his request.
> 
> I'm not that kind of fan.


Jordan was being himself, and I wouldn't have it any other way. The same is true for the other players.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

EGarrett said:


> Jordan was being himself, and I wouldn't have it any other way. The same is true for the other players.


Again, to make this *very* extreme, Hitler was being himself too. That doesn't make it okay. The point is not that Jordan is at all similar to Hitler, since somebody already couldn't make that connection earlier in the thread. The point is that just because people are being themselves, doesn't mean they aren't wrong in the process.


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## EGarrett (Aug 12, 2002)

Sir Patchwork said:


> Again, to make this *very* extreme, Hitler was being himself too. That doesn't make it okay. The point is not that Jordan is at all similar to Hitler, since somebody already couldn't make that connection earlier in the thread. The point is that just because people are being themselves, doesn't mean they aren't wrong in the process.


So now you're comparing taking credit away from Jerry Krause in a speech to murdering 6 million people? :banghead:


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

EGarrett said:


> So now you're comparing taking credit away from Jerry Krause in a speech to murdering 6 million people? :banghead:


Wow I even prefaced my statement by saying they're not at all the same degree of wrong. Just that "being yourself" doesn't mean you should be void of all criticism and/or punishment if you do something wrong. 

If you want a less extreme example, how about if I go outside and I push a 7 year old girl off her bike. That's just me being myself so it's okay? You wouldn't want me to act any other way?


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

Sir Patchwork said:


> Wow I even prefaced my statement by saying they're not at all the same degree of wrong. Just that "being yourself" doesn't mean you should be void of all criticism and/or punishment if you do something wrong.
> 
> If you want a less extreme example, how about if I go outside and I push a 7 year old girl off her bike. That's just me being myself so it's okay? You wouldn't want me to act any other way?


You're really not getting it. Yes, you are making valid points about the argument of allowing someone to simply be ones self, however you're failing to understand MJ's very own self isn't that much of a ****. What Jordan is all about is nothing in comparison to the figures or situations you have mentioned, he might not be an exemplary gentlemen but he does not warrant being compared to the man that picks on children or even worse Hitler. 

Now do you understand?


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

Porn_Player said:


> You're really not getting it. Yes, you are making valid points about the argument of allowing someone to simply be ones self, however you're failing to understand MJ's very own self isn't that much of a ****. What Jordan is all about is nothing in comparison to the figures or situations you have mentioned, he might not be an exemplary gentlemen but he does not warrant being compared to the man that picks on children or even worse Hitler.
> 
> Now do you understand?


I understand that you will make excuses for him no matter what. You simply aren't getting the point. It's not about whether or not the things he did were worse or better than those thigns I mentioned. The things he said were out of line. You apologists continue to justify why that's okay, simply because it's part of his character. I will refrain from using anymore examples since you haven't shown the ability to connect the dots. Just because it's part of his character does not mean it's okay.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

Sir Patchwork said:


> I understand that you will make excuses for him no matter what. You simply aren't getting the point. It's not about whether or not the things he did were worse or better than those thigns I mentioned. The things he said were out of line. You apologists continue to justify why that's okay, simply because it's part of his character. I will refrain from using anymore examples since you haven't shown the ability to connect the dots. Just because it's part of his character does not mean it's okay.


I have made no such excuses. Jordan was arrogant and cocky throughout his speech, does that make me think any less of him, no not really. Is it ok? Yes it is ok, because not every human is perfect. Does this speech make him a complete hate filled demon like some of you seem to think? Nope. Is it worth comparing him to the worlds most evil man? Certainly not, even if you simply were trying to make a point. You need to refrain from your examples because you are embarrassing your own intellect each time you spout some stupid connection. 

For a guy I have a lot of respect for and always have, I think you are arguing from a foolish viewpoint. But who's to say my two cents is worth any more than yours.


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## mysterio (May 20, 2003)

rocketeer said:


> why should being a great basketball make it acceptable for him to be an ******* during his speech?


As a young boy, I dreamed of being a baseball...


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## EGarrett (Aug 12, 2002)

Sir Patchwork said:


> Wow I even prefaced my statement by saying they're not at all the same degree of wrong. Just that "being yourself" doesn't mean you should be void of all criticism and/or punishment if you do something wrong.
> 
> If you want a less extreme example, how about if I go outside and I push a 7 year old girl off her bike. That's just me being myself so it's okay? You wouldn't want me to act any other way?


Oh for god's sake. He didn't DO ANYTHING WRONG. He gave his point of view on the things that were important to him. He spoke from HIS heart. That's the same thing I'd want from anyone who is supposed to give a speech from the heart. When it's Jerry Krause's turn to speak, he can give HIS perspective on it.


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## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

All the talk about right and wrong aside, I just feel bad for the guy, in a way. He's the ultimate progression of the high school athlete who just can't let the past go. Jordan just seems like he's unable to function without constant competition and at this point in his life he isn't dominating anything but pickup games and the golf course. I mean, if you want to live your life bitter and angry then that's your business, but for a guy with the world in his hand you think he'd be happier. It's over Mike, enjoy the next thirty years for what they are.


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## SlamJam (Nov 27, 2004)

i don't see what the big deal is here. there were enough stories from his playing career to know he was an egotistical *** so what he said during the speech shouldn't have been a surprise. he threw love to dean smith, pippen, and phil jackson, and did show his cockiness and the fact that he still can't get over minor things that happened. but that's what drove him as a player and it doesn't make him an evil person.

it's funny how people say he should have been more gracious. it's his speech and he should say what he wants. the point is not so we can watch and have tears in our eyes and say what a beautiful person the player is. there's no format for it. 

i'd much rather have him say what he did than give a sugared up version. a lot of other speeches don't do that.

the other thing is that mj is a crappy public speaker, which makes it sound worse than it is. a lot of the times he tried to be funny, it just came across as awkward.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

EGarrett said:


> Oh for god's sake. He didn't DO ANYTHING WRONG. He gave his point of view on the things that were important to him. He spoke from HIS heart. That's the same thing I'd want from anyone who is supposed to give a speech from the heart. When it's Jerry Krause's turn to speak, he can give HIS perspective on it.


Seconded.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

EGarrett said:


> Oh for god's sake. He didn't DO ANYTHING WRONG. He gave his point of view on the things that were important to him. He spoke from HIS heart. That's the same thing I'd want from anyone who is supposed to give a speech from the heart. When it's Jerry Krause's turn to speak, he can give HIS perspective on it.


Okay well if the day comes where Krause gets to speak on the matter and he gives himself high praise and says he was the reason the Bulls won titles, and points out that Jordan never won anything until Krause put talent with him, and that teams win titles not players, and brags of his superiority over other GM's, I will be right here talking about how big of a dick he is. 

Something tells me if Krause did that, the same people defending Jordan in this thread would not be pulling the "he spoke from his heart" card. But I suppose we'll never know.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

Sir Patchwork said:


> Okay well if the day comes where Krause gets to speak on the matter and he gives himself high praise and says he was the reason the Bulls won titles, and points out that Jordan never won anything until Krause put talent with him, and that teams win titles not players, and brags of his superiority over other GM's, I will be right here talking about how big of a dick he is.
> 
> Something tells me if Krause did that, the same people defending Jordan in this thread would not be pulling the "he spoke from his heart" card. But I suppose we'll never know.


Wow dude, you don't get it at all. And I don't think anyone would care what Krause has to say one way or the other. We've all heard it before. However if the podium was his to discuss his career, more power to him.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

23AJ said:


> Wow dude, you don't get it at all. And I don't think anyone would care what Krause has to say one way or the other. We've all heard it before. However if the podium was his to discuss his career, more power to him.


You don't even like it when posters on here say something remotely negative about Jordan. If Krause did it in a public speech, you'd flip your lid. You have a more obvious Jordan bias. Porn_Player and EGarrett may not care if Krause did a speech "from his heart" that was disrespectful to Jordan and a bunch of others, but like I said, we'll probably never know.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

Sir Patchwork said:


> You don't even like it when posters on here say something remotely negative about Jordan. If Krause did it in a public speech, you'd flip your lid. You have a more obvious Jordan bias. Porn_Player and EGarrett may not care if Krause did a speech "from his heart" that was disrespectful to Jordan and a bunch of others, but like I said, we'll probably never know.


You can always tell when someone is grasping for straws. Suddenly I'm the center of your reasoning behind your previous statements. You assume greatly that I would flip my lid. When in reality I could careless what Krause has to say, as I dully noted earlier, I've already heard it all before. I'm biased ? NO kidding! We all are. As soon as you realize you are as human as everyone else that posts here with their own biased opinions, the better off you will be. And lastly and probably greatly appreciated you've lifted Porn Player and EGarrett's statements and opinions higher than that of mine, because they wouldn't be phased by Krause's speech, but I would. 

Thanks for turning the finger at me, and stirring the stew. And I'll reiterate one more time, more power to Krause when he's given his shiny moment. It's not going to burn me if he just ranted against MJ his entire speech. I could really careless. 

cheerio!


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