# Bogut vs Mihm vs Kaman



## Amplifier (Feb 7, 2005)

Had a chance to see Utah play today for the first time this season. Bogut impressed me alot (passing especially). He reminded me of Chris Kamen from two years ago and to a lesser extent Mihm from Texas.

Had I not seen Kamen play in the NCAAs and then watch him struggle in the NBA I'd call Bogut a sure fire #1 pick. What's the difference between these players?


----------



## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

Amplifier said:


> Had a chance to see Utah play today for the first time this season. Bogut impressed me alot (passing especially). He reminded me of Chris Kamen from two years ago and to a lesser extent Mihm from Texas.
> 
> Had I not seen Kamen play in the NCAAs and then watch him struggle in the NBA I'd call Bogut a sure fire #1 pick. What's the difference between these players?


foreign players have a better skill set as a rule. bogut is a little longer in reach than those two and he has great hands. there's no rule that says we have to only compare him to white guys. i think tim duncan is a better comparison.


----------



## Sad Mafioso (Nov 7, 2004)

While you're at it add Nenad Kristic, Primoz Brezec, Mehmet Okur. :clap:

I think he has more upside than all of them.


----------



## The_Franchise (Mar 30, 2003)

These are some bad comparisions for Bogut. Bogut has a refined post game, is a much better rebounder than Mihm and slightly better than Kaman and is easily a better defender than the 2. Not to mention his passing ability. I don't see where you get these comparisions to Mihm and Kaman.

Tim Duncan would be an ideal comparision, not saying he's on his way to being the next TD but they have similar strengths.


----------



## Mavs41 (Feb 22, 2005)

Bogut has a whole set of skills versus the others you named. Passing seems to be his best skill which is great. You just can't teach great passing skills it has to be natural. He can already pass out of double teams and see's the floor well. Also, he plays very solid defense and moves his feet well for a big man. He can rebound the ball and is very aggressive when doing it. All IMO he needs to work on is being a more consistant scorer. If he can work on that he can be a superstar in the NBA.


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

First off, I think Kaman has proven to be a good pick. But second of all, I don't see the similiarities between Kaman, Mihm and Bogut.

The easiest comparison is Tim Duncan. It's obvious he has patterened his game after Duncan.

He has a similiar build to Duncan, similiar demeanor, and he can do pretty much everything on the court like Duncan can. He probably isn't as good a ballhandler as Duncan. And obviously Duncan is better at every single aspect of the game right now, but I see Bogut as going in that direction with his development. He'll be rookie of the year next year.


----------



## rebelsun (Nov 25, 2003)

Bogut is better than those guys, and by a decent margin. 

As futuristxen noted, I really don't think it's unfair to compare him to Tim Duncan. He's 7'0, strong, skilled all over the place, and knows what to do on the court.


----------



## Rollydog (Jan 24, 2004)

futuristxen said:


> First off, I think Kaman has proven to be a good pick. But second of all, I don't see the similiarities between Kaman, Mihm and Bogut.
> 
> The easiest comparison is Tim Duncan. It's obvious he has patterened his game after Duncan.
> 
> He has a similiar build to Duncan, similiar demeanor, and he can do pretty much everything on the court like Duncan can. He probably isn't as good a ballhandler as Duncan. And obviously Duncan is better at every single aspect of the game right now, but I see Bogut as going in that direction with his development. He'll be rookie of the year next year.


I think you're way off there. Kaman and Mihm are both more athletic than Bogut, Mihm in particular. Bogut is very long though, very very long, and has the best pair of mitts I've seen for a big man in a long time. That explains the high rebounding numbers. 

Duncan is a terrible comparison as well. Timmy is an inch or two shorter, but much quicker, much more athletic, and much more skilled. Bogut has a good post game, but its nothing compared to Duncan's entering the league. I'm not even sure he'll be able to score consistently with it coming into the league. 

The best comparison for Bogut I think is Divac. Similar athletically and in terms of their game. Great passing, hands, etc. Bogut will be better though because of agressive, physical mindset.


----------



## Hitman (Jul 16, 2002)

Rollydog said:


> I think you're way off there. Kaman and Mihm are both more athletic than Bogut, Mihm in particular. Bogut is very long though, very very long, and has the best pair of mitts I've seen for a big man in a long time. That explains the high rebounding numbers.
> 
> Duncan is a terrible comparison as well. Timmy is an inch or two shorter, but much quicker, much more athletic, and much more skilled. Bogut has a good post game, but its nothing compared to Duncan's entering the league. I'm not even sure he'll be able to score consistently with it coming into the league.
> 
> The best comparison for Bogut I think is Divac. Similar athletically and in terms of their game. Great passing, hands, etc. Bogut will be better though because of agressive, physical mindset.


Duncan is much more athletic than Bogut? No.
Much more skilled as a College Sophmore than Bogut? No.
Mihm and Kaman are more athletic than Bogut? What planet are you living on?

Bogut is going to a great player in the NBA.

G-R-E-A-T


----------



## HeinzGuderian (Jun 29, 2004)

Tim is more athletic, was stronger even in college (Bogut always seems to get pushed around to me). Duncan was a defensive beast, Bogut is a solid defender at the college level simply by being a 7 footer with good motor skills, but is nowhere near the level defensively Duncan was in college. Boguts passing ability always leaves me impressed.


----------



## Rollydog (Jan 24, 2004)

Hitman said:


> Duncan is much more athletic than Bogut? No.
> Much more skilled as a College Sophmore than Bogut? No.
> Mihm and Kaman are more athletic than Bogut? What planet are you living on?
> 
> ...


If Mihm and Kaman are less athletic than Bogut than why were each superior shot blockers despite being less long and having worse timing?

I think Bogut is going to be a great player as well; the only knock on him is that he has Luc Longley feet.


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Divac when he was younger was more athletic than Tim Duncan. Just thought I should mention that. He wasn't always old man Vlade. He used to be a young buck at the tail end of showtime.

And I really don't see the lack of athleticism that some of you are seeing.
I don't think enough of you are used to seeing a legit 7 footer move up and down the floor. Or maybe I've seen too many Yao and Z games.

Regardless his game isn't predicated on being more athletic than his man. Which is where the Duncan comparison comes in. Bogut outthinks his opponent.

And back on the Divac comparison. I really think he has more patience to his game and is a little nastier than Divac. Which basically gives you Tim Duncan.

The way Bogut moves around the court is very similiar to how Duncan does for the Spurs. How Bogut works in the high post is the spitting image of Tim Duncan.


----------



## Bron_Melo_ROY (Apr 12, 2004)

I remember Tony Kornheiser off of PTI saying this in on Thursday...Anyways, I think Bogut is going to better than Kaman and definitely better than Mihm.


----------



## Rollydog (Jan 24, 2004)

futuristxen said:


> Divac when he was younger was more athletic than Tim Duncan. Just thought I should mention that. He wasn't always old man Vlade. He used to be a young buck at the tail end of showtime.
> 
> And I really don't see the lack of athleticism that some of you are seeing.
> I don't think enough of you are used to seeing a legit 7 footer move up and down the floor. Or maybe I've seen too many Yao and Z games.
> ...


If he was more athletic, 2 inches taller, why didn't Divac ever come close to averaging TD's numbers. Its not just a mean streak. VD's best year was 16/10, Duncan's best has been 26/13. 

People underrated the Big Fundamentals physical abilities.


----------



## Like A Breath (Jun 16, 2003)

Hitman said:


> Duncan is much more athletic than Bogut? No.
> Much more skilled as a College Sophmore than Bogut? No.
> Mihm and Kaman are more athletic than Bogut? What planet are you living on?
> 
> ...


Just because Mihm sucks doesn't mean that he's not athletic. He's one of the most athletic centers in the game, much more athletic than Bogut. Kaman is very coordinated, but not athletic in terms of speed or hops. Bogut has skills over both of them, but it's not unreasonable to say that he's not very athletic for a center so thin.


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Well if athleticism is all you are worried about, draft Taft with your number 1 pick.

But if you are worried about drafting the best player in the draft and getting a basketball player, not a track star, then you draft Bogut. That's the honest truth.


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Rollydog said:


> If he was more athletic, 2 inches taller, why didn't Divac ever come close to averaging TD's numbers. Its not just a mean streak. VD's best year was 16/10, Duncan's best has been 26/13.
> 
> People underrated the Big Fundamentals physical abilities.


Haha. VD.
The reason why VD never came close to TD, has nothing to do with athleticism.
Stromile Swift is more athletic than Tim Duncan. Woopee!

Athleticism at center means little to nothing. Watch Aryvdas Sabonis at 40 dominating in the post.

For me, I don't care about the center's athlecticism. I care about his hands. His rebounding. His touch around the basket. And his toughness.


----------



## Nimreitz (May 13, 2003)

Why all the Mihm hating? He's a true 7 footer with athleticism, defense, and he'll do everything you need from a center. Kinda like an NBA version of James Augustine's roll for Illinois right now.

This comparison's been said earlier, but I'll restate it.... Brad Miller

Ok well I think Bogut is hesitant to shoot the midrange jumpshot first of all, and secondly he doesn't bring intensity to the defensive game. I noticed both of those in January and I saw them both today as well. He's hit a few threes, but they were WIDE open and I really haven't seen a consistent shot from him outside the paint. His post moves I don't believe are that great and much like his defense are benifited tremendously by the fact that he's 7 feet tall and the average college center is something like 6'8''. He's a great passer and he can have an offense run through him like Miller and he is great at positioning himself for rebounds on both ends. I don't know who I'd compare him to, but the way he stood 15 feet out and ran the offense today and as I've seen him do in the past really reminds me of Brad Miller. I still don't see why you take him over Chris Paul, Rudy Gay, and Marvin Williams, but he's a fine player and he should last in the league for some 10 years.


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

I saw Mihm in Texas, and I was glad the Bulls traded him for Crawford.
It's an insulting comparison, that's why there's Mihm hating.

It would be like me comparing Chris Paul to Kenny Anderson. Except probably even worse, because Kenny Anderson was actually flirting with being good there for awhile.


----------



## vadimivich (Mar 29, 2004)

Whoa, Kenny Anderson played in an All-Star game and scored over 15ppg for 7 straight seasons early in his career. He was a pretty darn good NBA player, though not quite as good as everyone thought he would be out of college (where he was just awesome - better than Chris Paul).

If Chris Paul turns into Kenny Anderson in the NBA, that's not a horrible thing. Actually, might be a fair comparison. Bogut to Mihm is MUCH more insulting.


----------



## Rollydog (Jan 24, 2004)

futuristxen said:


> Haha. VD.
> The reason why VD never came close to TD, has nothing to do with athleticism.
> Stromile Swift is more athletic than Tim Duncan. Woopee!
> 
> ...


You didn't answer my question? Vlade certainly has post skills, he certainly has great hands, he was more athletic than Duncan (or so you say) why was he never half the player TD was?


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Rollydog said:


> You didn't answer my question? Vlade certainly has post skills, he certainly has great hands, he was more athletic than Duncan (or so you say) why was he never half the player TD was?


I did answer your question. Read my answer...but deeper this time.


----------



## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

i think people tend to forget bogut is a sophomore, duncan stayed all 4 yrs. what would bogut be like in 2 years(obviously it wont be in college). i like tim duncan comparisons but another,made be nbadraft.net, is kevin mchale. kevin seemed to plod up and down the court but he had long arms on a 6-11 frame and great timing defensively, on offense he developed his low post game as time went on. he wasnt a passer though thats for sure. now all bogut needs around him at the next level is larry bird to get him the ball and make the double teams near impossible.


----------



## Rollydog (Jan 24, 2004)

futuristxen said:


> I did answer your question. Read my answer...but deeper this time.


I'm sorry. I'm not smart enough to see what your point is. Can you make it a little more clear for me and answer my previous question in a concise manner? 

"Vlade certainly has post skills, he certainly has great hands, he was more athletic than Duncan (or so you say), so why was he never half the player TD was? Can you attribute the difference soley to mental toughness?


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Rollydog said:


> I'm sorry. I'm not smart enough to see what your point is. Can you make it a little more clear for me and answer my previous question in a concise manner?
> 
> "Vlade certainly has post skills, he certainly has great hands, he was more athletic than Duncan (or so you say), so why was he never half the player TD was? Can you attribute the difference soley to mental toughness?


My point is athleticism has nothing to do with it. Tim Duncan is a tougher player than Divac was. He's more focused on both ends of the floor. He gets in the right place, makes the right moves, and never wastes any movement. He's one of the most efficient players there has been.

Whether or not Bogut is more or less athletic than whoever, doesn't mean anything about whether he will be a better basketball player than whoever.

Larry Bird for instance...was not more athletic than Stacey Augmon, but he sure as hell was a better player.

Eddy Curry is more athletic than Zydrunas Illgauskas. But for some reason Z gets more rebounds, blocks more shots, and averages more points per game.

Stromile Swift is more athletic than Tim Duncan but it don't mean a thing.

Is this making any sense?

Bogut understands how to play the game on a level that is comparable to a Tim Duncan. That is why combined with his size that he is going to be a great player.


----------



## Rollydog (Jan 24, 2004)

futuristxen said:


> My point is athleticism has nothing to do with it. Tim Duncan is a tougher player than Divac was. He's more focused on both ends of the floor. He gets in the right place, makes the right moves, and never wastes any movement. He's one of the most efficient players there has been.
> 
> Whether or not Bogut is more or less athletic than whoever, doesn't mean anything about whether he will be a better basketball player than whoever.
> 
> ...


Are you saying Vlade didn't know how to play the game? This is a center who's averaged over 5 apg, more than some point gaurds.


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Rollydog said:


> Are you saying Vlade didn't know how to play the game? This is a center who's averaged over 5 apg, more than some point gaurds.


No. When did I say that?
Tim Duncan knows how to play it...bettah. He's not called the Big Fundemental for nothing.


----------



## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

future, Duncan may be efficient and a very smart player, but comparing that aspect of his game to Divac isn't an insult. Bogut looks to be a prime Divac with better upside and skill, though I doubt he develops the same consistent passing ability at the NBA level (that's just a guess, who really knows). I'd bet Bogut is better than a prime Divac, maybe 18/10/4 and an above average defender. IMO he's nothing special and never will be, but he'll be a great center (maybe better than Ming) in a center-depleted NBA. 

And the comparison to Mihm doesn't work. Mihm has much better quickness and athleticism, but half the brain, no where near the same hands, and believe it or not is softer than Bogut (not that Bogut's soft).


----------



## Critic (Jun 19, 2003)

I think Troy Murphy is a good comparison for Andrew. Very similar players if you ask me. He is however that little bit taller and has longer arms...perfect for playing the 5 in the league. Great to see him doing so well still!


----------



## NYKBaller (Oct 29, 2003)

I heard Sabonis was a good comparison for him


----------



## BigMac (Jan 14, 2005)

comparing him to Duncan is a joke, don't compare him to a MVP player. He is more like Brad Miller his O and his passing is alot like MIller.


----------



## Drewbs (Feb 16, 2004)

BigMac said:


> comparing him to Duncan is a joke, don't compare him to a MVP player. He is more like Brad Miller his O and his passing is alot like MIller.


Why exactly is comparing him to Duncan a joke?


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

EHL said:


> future, Duncan may be efficient and a very smart player, but comparing that aspect of his game to Divac isn't an insult.


Oh no doubt. People underrate how good Divac was in his prime, so I kind of question people making the comparison, because I don't think those people are really considering the potential Divac entered the league with. And if you got Divac in the draft in this day and age, you would be doing very well.


----------



## BigMac (Jan 14, 2005)

Drewbs said:


> Why exactly is comparing him to Duncan a joke?


never compare anyone to a MVP player.


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

BigMac said:


> never compare anyone to a MVP player.


That's the most ludicrous thing I've heard in this thread.


----------



## BigMac (Jan 14, 2005)

futuristxen said:


> That's the most ludicrous thing I've heard in this thread.




Blah blah blah


----------



## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

BigMac said:


> Blah blah blah


Thanks for the superb analysis.


----------



## Drewbs (Feb 16, 2004)

Well... Bogut does play a bit like Duncan... but Duncan is an MVP so I guess its only fair to compare him to... Shawn Bradley because hes white?


----------



## Nimreitz (May 13, 2003)

I love race based comparisons! There are 30 starting centers in the league and who does Ha get compared to? Yao of course. Hinrich is a successful white point guard, who should we compare him to? Stockton even though their games aren't really similar at all.


----------



## Hustle (Dec 17, 2003)

Bogut is better than Kaman who is better than Mihm.


----------



## BigMac (Jan 14, 2005)

EHL said:


> Thanks for the superb analysis.



i wasn't talking to you.


----------



## SeriousSummer (Jul 21, 2002)

I think the best comparison would be Alvin Adams, who was a great high post center in his day. But that was quite awhile ago.


----------



## Scatocephalus (Jul 29, 2003)

> You didn't answer my question? Vlade certainly has post skills, he certainly has great hands, he was more athletic than Duncan (or so you say) why was he never half the player TD was?


Divacs was not the smartest duck on the pond and lacked concentration. I still remember Magic berating him publicly for his lack of mental toughness. Something to the effect of Magic never having played with anyone that drives him as nuts as Divacs.

Think about it. What do ALL winners have in common? Jordan, Thomas, Duncan? All very different players. They were all mentally tough!! If Bogut has the mental toughness and concentration he will do great with his skill set.


----------

