# Pick Number 8: Rafael Araujo



## charlz

*stupid stupid stupid*

RAFAEL ARAUJO at number 8?

this kid will break down @290 lbs he is way to slow - he may even be ok for a year or two but he is certain to break down with all that weight.

And passing on Andris Biedrins a far better defender with way more upside.

Babcock is grunwald all over again... we are screwed

---------

why must I be cursed with likeing this team


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## macro6

Like you, i'm very disappointed with this pick.

But im willing to give Babcock the benifit of th doubt


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## :TorontoRaptors:

6'11", 290 pounds.

This pick helps out Chris Bosh a lot... there's the other positive.


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## speedythief

"This draft isn't about impact players so much as it is about rotation guys"

-- Jack Armstrong




I bet that we tried to move down but couldn't. I am as shocked by this pick as you guys are. I am stumped. But before we decide this is a bad pick, keep in mind that we needed a centre and we might have got the best natural one in the draft. Plus he is a character guy, a father, a husband. He is mature.


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## butr

*Re: stupid stupid stupid*



> Originally posted by <b>charlz</b>!
> RAFAEL ARAUJO at number 8?
> 
> this kid will break down @290 lbs he is way to slow - he may even be ok for a year or two but he is certain to break down with all that weight.


I don't understand this logic at all. He is not slow at all. Have you seen him play?

And 290 on his frame is just fine. Has Shaq broken down? Did Zo break down (other than his kidneys)? His body will be fine. He is completely proportional.


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## bigbabyjesus

Oh My God.

This is a horrible pick IMO. If we were in a situation like this we should have just token Andre Iguodala, the best player available. No sense in stretching Araujo big time at the #8 spot. Even though I know we tried to trade down, maybe we'll still get a trade going, please, just get Araujo out of here.

I hope he becomes a good centre, all the best to him as a Raptor, but god i don't have a good feeling about him at all, and he was a big stretch. If we were going to grab a big man, Biedrins would have been much better, and if we wanted to stretch, why not Telfair?


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## Apollo

The reaction from the ESPN analysts say it all. They were all shocked we took this guy so high in the draft. This was a stretch for sure. There wasn't even consensus that hewas the best centre available, let alone someone who should be drafted at #8. Iguodala was the pick and we just handed Philly a gift.


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## HB

At first I was like what? Then I realized that Babcock obviously sees something in Araujo and wouldnt risk a number 8 pick on him if he wasnt sure, either that or there are some trades going down. On the other hand, look at all the kids playing center in the draft, the surest and most proven thing is Okafor, besides that its a toss up, I would take Araujo over Biedrins because once again a proven commodity. Biedrins is another undersized PF. Dont forget Araujo is going to be playing in the East, there arent too many credible centers in the East. The puzzling part is how do we solve our point guard problems, through the draft or through free agents. Anyone wonder why Nelson fell so hard to the 20th spot, Denver already has 2 points in Miller and Boykins, we wouldnt mind Nelson


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## McFurious

> RAFAEL ARAUJO at number 8


I think im going to cry ... WTF is Babcock thinking?


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## Junkyard Dog13

how is 290? too big
What do you people want a 240 lbs C?
I was shocked with the pick as well but he has natural C written all over from reading about him and hearing from people whom have seen him play.

He will help open things up for Bosh plus he is a good low post player.

just get Duhon at 39.


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## Turkish Delight

At first I was a little skeptical about this pick, but I guess it's all right.. We finally get a big man to help out Bosh.. We have a nice young frontcourt now which will be very useful for years to come.. Now I think it's time we sign Troy Hudson from Minnesoda.. We also need another young PG somehow, but I don't know how we're going to manage to get one..


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## Sánchez AF

I'm in Shock I just Look that Araujo at #8 OMG but Maybe (I hope) I'm Wrong we need a Center and Araujo is maybe the bext Center in all draft Andris is More like a PF and I hear Araujo is a GYM RAT so Maybe he can develop into a great Center or another Joel Prizbilla


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## Dathomieyouhate

i'm fine with the pick it's not like we missed out on the next big thing in iggy. araujo will be a good center in the league next year he'll be much better then the over hyped biedrins that guy is going to be a bust. There was noway we would get a center in free agency and we have a better chance in getting a pg in free agency. you people will be eating your words when we win the division


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## Sánchez AF

And I think he was the Best player Available


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## Ballyhoo

Remember everyone was saying the Raptors blew it when they picked Damon too. 

This does feel like a "win now" pick. Araujo is a college senior, and at 23 he can't really be considered a project. He was probably the closest thing to an impact player left on the board.

On the bright side, if Araujo busts then we should be in good position to pick Chris Paul next year. :uhoh:


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## Sánchez AF

If we pick Duhon or Antonio Burks its fine


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## WXHOOPS

Any big will fit the bill, so we can move Bosh to PF fulltime. However, I agree that this pick was bull****. Take Iggy, and trade him to someone else for a much needed big guy. Terrible move.


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## Goku

*I am smarter than u*

I thought that Rafael was first overall material a lonng LONG LONNNNNG time ago.

I am smarter than NBADRAFT and DRAFTCITY.

those guys suck. 

from now on, I am just going on my own gut instinct, and to heck with those people.

If we took Rafael, and I just got home and don't know for sure, then I RULE. I think I'm the only person on the net who wanted him at 8 and would have taken him first overall

you all suck. I don't. Thank you. 

I am better than Blowuptheraptors, Speedythief, whoever. I am smarter.. I am much better. Look up my "poster history" if u don't believer me. I wanted Raf the first time I saw him. Over a year ago. I rule you suck. 

If we didn't take him, then I apologize. If not, then I am the smartest basketball poster on any messageboard.


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## McFurious

> I think im going to cry ... WTF is Babcock thinking?


Im going to change my above quote

The more I read about this guy the more I like him and think he's going to fit in out system. Think about it we really needed a big man and from what I've been reading this kid has a lot of upside. Babcock said that this pick was a "gut pick". Meaning that he went with is gut and had faith in this kid.. and now that faith is starting to come over on my side. He will add and provide much needed role with this club but only time will tell. .. now we just have to get a pg with our 39.

listen to an interview with Babcock talk about Rafael Aruajo here:

http://www.nba.com/raptors/features/draft_04.html


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## KeonBackinTO

A couple of Cs might be available at 39 that could be better then this guy. 
Peter John Ramos
David Harrison

If one of these guys is still around the Raps should still pick them over PG, one of them will be great. And having too many big men isnt a big problem.


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## Hurtch

Well I said a few days ago to go the best available player route...we didn't do that.
I wanted us to go PG if we didn't go BPA...we didn't do that.
I even wouldn't have minded trading down...we didn't do that.

What a bad pick. I'm not harping on Rafael here, and I wish him all the luck in the world. This just doesn't seem to have been a smart choice. Does Babcock honestly believe that when all is said and done Araujo's going to be a better pro than Kirk Snyder, Luke Jackson, Jameer Nelson and Andre Igoudala? If he does he's alone in his sentiments.

Following the pick I was praying that Nelson would slip to 21 and the Raps would work out a deal with the Jazz...damn.

In my opinion this is by far the worst pick of the first round, with only Telfair at #13 as another questionable choice.


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## Mike1155

All i'm going to say is that i hope that Rafael is going to be a good player for our team & welcome to Toronto Rafael!


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## Dathomieyouhate

> Originally posted by <b>Hurtch</b>!
> Kirk Snyder, Luke Jackson, and Andre Igoudala



im sure those guys would look real nice sitting on the bench watching bosh get crushed by the opposing center.


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## Sánchez AF

> Originally posted by <b>KeonBackinTO</b>!
> A couple of Cs might be available at 39 that could be better then this guy.
> Peter John Ramos
> David Harrison
> 
> If one of these guys is still around the Raps should still pick them over PG, one of them will be great. And having too many big men isnt a big problem.


Harrison was selected by the Pacers at 30


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## Dathomieyouhate

and the wizards just picked up pjr


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## WXHOOPS

*Re: I am smarter than u*



> Originally posted by <b>Goku</b>!
> I thought that Rafael was first overall material a lonng LONG LONNNNNG time ago.
> 
> I am smarter than NBADRAFT and DRAFTCITY.
> 
> those guys suck.
> 
> from now on, I am just going on my own gut instinct, and to heck with those people.
> 
> If we took Rafael, and I just got home and don't know for sure, then I RULE. I think I'm the only person on the net who wanted him at 8 and would have taken him first overall
> 
> you all suck. I don't. Thank you.
> 
> I am better than Blowuptheraptors, Speedythief, whoever. I am smarter.. I am much better. Look up my "poster history" if u don't believer me. I wanted Raf the first time I saw him. Over a year ago. I rule you suck.
> 
> If we didn't take him, then I apologize. If not, then I am the smartest basketball poster on any messageboard.


Yeah, wish I was smart enough to take him that high. Probably the dumbest move of the draft, hands down. Consider yourself an idiot too, for thinking this was a good move.


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## mo76

Why didn't they trade down or pig Iggy and trade him. Or take David Harrison?

Was this guy in the green room??

Number 8th pick??

This is the first time i heard of this guy

lighten up. no need for the cursing. and if this is the first time you've heard of him, that's your fault, because most of us here are familiar with him, even if we didn't expect to pick him. speedy.


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## Hurtch

> Originally posted by <b>Dathomieyouhate</b>!
> im sure those guys would look real nice sitting on the bench watching bosh get crushed by the opposing center.


Sorry, I must have missed the memo that said the only way to build a team was through the draft.


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## mo76

I am seriously pissed. Why do the raptors have to have the only questionable....... Oh did I say questionable, .... I MEAN STUPID, pick in the first round. 
Who does babcock think he is doing this?

WHYYYYYYYYYYY


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## JNice

Not a good pick to me. He is a great kid, skilled, big guy ... but he looks like he seriously lacks explosiveness around the basket. 

Maybe at best a real, real poor man's Brad Miller. Should have taken Iggy.


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## EBP2K2

Raps could easily have traded down a few spots and got cash in return, and still have Arujyo on board to pick...


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## AdamIllman

*Re: I am smarter than u*

edit


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## ballocks

disappointing. i think this was a case of our new GM not having had the opportunity to study our team _on the court_ last year, thus forcing him to rely on names and reputations almost exclusively. this pick, in my opinion, will certainly give us a serviceable bench player for a couple of years; the problem is, with our team, we probably needed to take a gamble because the players we have in prominent roles are not quite enough.

we needed an impact player- in some form, some way. araujo, in my opinion, does not fit the profile. i mean, i'm starting to think that this pick adds yet another philosophy to our already conflicting visions. he won't really help vince, he won't help jalen, he might help bosh marginally but... not in the optimal way. it's just a hodge podge of talents in toronto right now, and i'm personally uncomfortable with the roster.

to be perfectly honest, i think babcock dropped the ball here. araujo won't be a bust but he won't- can't- help much, either. if we make the playoffs next year, we lose our 1st rounder- but if we don't, we defer that once more (thereby paralyzing us *again* with respect to trades) and have to pick from a weak talent pool (with vince, AW and jalen being one year older). i don't know what would bode worse for the future of the franchise. this first rounder was vitally important and we got... some value... but the wrong kind (imo). 

even from the fans' perspective, this doesn't help our product on the floor. it was agonizing to watch our gameplay last season, and while part of that could be attributed to KO, part of it was also our lack of interesting/creative talent. make no mistake, araujo will not open the floor for bosh. he's a heavy load to be sure, but he'll have an awfully tough time (imo) bringing that same game to the pros. like i said, it'll help our depth more than anything- but we needed a potential _star_. i would've rather picked a bust with some upside (and i don't normally think that way) for this team than rafael araujo- a guaranteed contributer, sure, but on a marginal basis.

i wish i could play devil's advocate about this guy but i can't; i watched him several times this year, and what you see is what you get. in my opinion, he will only be a 4/5 tweener in the nba, will likely not fill our void at centre (i mean, he won't) and still leaves us without much courtspeed aside from vince and mo pete. 

the raptors have to learn to be proactive in these drafts instead of holing themselves up in their offices, numbercrunching. the world is moving around them and they're employing a defensive strategy over and over again. 

it's unfortunate. for us not to have made a move for jameer nelson (or even chris duhon) is another sign of incompetence. i hope i'm wrong, but the babcock era has been launched off the wrong foot. i don't like to make predictions (and you'll probably hear a different point of view from our media tomorrow) but i think our performance at the draft tonight was an utter disaster.

and god, was it ever important...

peace


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## Dathomieyouhate

> Originally posted by <b>ballocks</b>!
> disappointing. i think this was a case of our new GM not having had the opportunity to study our team _on the court_ last year, thus forcing him to rely on names and reputations almost exclusively. this pick, in my opinion, will certainly give us a serviceable bench player for a couple of years; the problem is, with our team, we probably needed to take a gamble because the players we have in prominent roles are not quite enough.
> 
> we needed an impact player- in some form, some way. araujo, in my opinion, does not fit the profile. i mean, i'm starting to think that this pick adds yet another philosophy to our already conflicting visions. he won't really help vince, he won't help jalen, he might help bosh marginally but... not in the optimal way. it's just a hodge podge of talents in toronto right now, and i'm personally uncomfortable with the roster.
> 
> to be perfectly honest, i think babcock dropped the ball here. araujo won't be a bust but he won't- can't- help much, either. if we make the playoffs next year, we lose our 1st rounder- but if we don't, we defer that again (thereby paralyzing us *again* with respect to trades) and have to pick from a weak talent pool (with vince, AW and jalen being one year older). i don't know what would bode worse for the future of the franchise. this first rounder was vitally important and we got... some value... but the wrong kind (imo).
> 
> even from the fans' perspective, this doesn't help our product on the floor. it was agonizing to watch our gameplay last season, and while part of that could be attributed to KO, part of it was our lack of interesting/creative talent. make no mistake, araujo will not open the floor for bosh. he's a heavy load to be sure, but he'll have an awfully tough time (imo) bringing that same game to the pros. like i said, it'll help our depth more than anything- but we needed a potential _star_. i would've rather picked a bust with some upside (and i don't normally think that way) for this team than rafael araujo- a guaranteed contributer, sure, but on a marginal basis.
> 
> i wish i could play devil's advocate about this guy but i can't; i watched him several times this year, and what you see is what you get. in my opinion, he will only be a 4/5 tweener in the nba, will likely not fill our void at centre (i mean, he won't) and still leaves us without much courtspeed aside from vince and mo pete.
> 
> the raptors have to learn to be proactive in these drafts instead of holing themselves up in their offices, numbercrunching. the world is moving around them and they're employing a defensive strategy over and over again.
> 
> it's unfortunate. for us not to have made a move for jameer nelson (or even chris duhon) is another sign of incompetence. i hope i'm wrong, but the babcock era has been launched off the wrong foot. i don't like to make predictions (and you'll probably hear a different point of view from our media tomorrow), but i think our performance at the draft tonight was an utter disaster.
> 
> and god, was it ever important...
> 
> peace



ok first of all how were we suppose to make a move for jameer nelson? future first round pick? we don't have one. name me one guy we could of drafted that would help this team and fill in a position other than aruajo?

im sure seattle would of picked him at 12 and most likely golden state would have got him at 11.

maybe you would rather draft beidrins? with upside but no offensive talent. A half assed Chris Bosh. or swift a center with tons of upside but will most likely be a bust.

we don't need another upside player we're building around bosh and carter we need to fill in the center hole.


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## FanOfAll8472

*Re: I am smarter than u*



> Originally posted by <b>Goku</b>!
> I thought that Rafael was first overall material a lonng LONG LONNNNNG time ago.
> 
> I am smarter than NBADRAFT and DRAFTCITY.
> 
> those guys suck.
> 
> from now on, I am just going on my own gut instinct, and to heck with those people.
> 
> If we took Rafael, and I just got home and don't know for sure, then I RULE. I think I'm the only person on the net who wanted him at 8 and would have taken him first overall
> 
> you all suck. I don't. Thank you.
> 
> I am better than Blowuptheraptors, Speedythief, whoever. I am smarter.. I am much better. Look up my "poster history" if u don't believer me. I wanted Raf the first time I saw him. Over a year ago. I rule you suck.
> 
> If we didn't take him, then I apologize. If not, then I am the smartest basketball poster on any messageboard.


Good you predicted it. Good you wanted him. But to come off arrogant and cocky just made me not respect your judgment. Plus, Araujo IMO is *not* #1 material. His defense is too raw and probably the worst post defender that went in the 1st round. His range could use some help as well.



> At first I was like what? Then I realized that Babcock obviously sees something in Araujo and wouldnt risk a number 8 pick on him if he wasnt sure, either that or there are some trades going down. On the other hand, look at all the kids playing center in the draft, the surest and most proven thing is Okafor, besides that its a toss up, *I would take Araujo over Biedrins because once again a proven commodity. Biedrins is another undersized PF.* Dont forget Araujo is going to be playing in the East, there arent too many credible centers in the East. The puzzling part is how do we solve our point guard problems, through the draft or through free agents. Anyone wonder why Nelson fell so hard to the 20th spot, Denver already has 2 points in Miller and Boykins, we wouldnt mind Nelson


Araujo is not a proven commodity on defense. Biedrins is. Plus, Biedrins is NOT an undersized center. He's only what, 19 and still growing at 6'11" or 10" and not exactly a toothpick ala Keon Clark. Biedrins is a down low, defender, shot blocker, etc, while Araujo is a post player. We *need a tough, defensive player, not a post scorer!!*



> Oh My God.
> 
> This is a horrible pick IMO. If we were in a situation like this we should have just token Andre Iguodala, the best player available. No sense in stretching Araujo big time at the #8 spot. Even though I know we tried to trade down, maybe we'll still get a trade going, please, just get Araujo out of here.
> 
> I hope he becomes a good centre, all the best to him as a Raptor, but god i don't have a good feeling about him at all, and he was a big stretch. If we were going to grab a big man, Biedrins would have been much better, and if we wanted to stretch, why not Telfair?


I totally agree. I was all for taking a big man, but with the remaining, the only one I would've taken was Biedrins. Past that, Iggy!



> If we pick Duhon or Antonio Burks its fine


I was so disappointed when they were gone.



> Not a good pick to me. He is a great kid, skilled, big guy ... but he looks like he seriously lacks explosiveness around the basket.
> 
> Maybe at best a real, real poor man's Brad Miller. Should have taken Iggy.


No, Araujo isn't a jump shooter who can mix it up down low sometimes. Araujo is a post player and scorer.

If I said anywhere above I don't think Araujo will suck, I take that back. Frankly I'm cursing a lot of teams I like for their draft right, but if I were the Raptors GM I would've taken Biedrins. Without any thought.


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## Dathomieyouhate

*Re: Re: I am smarter than u*



> Originally posted by <b>FanOfAll8472</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Araujo is not a proven commodity on defense. Biedrins is. Plus, Biedrins is NOT an undersized center. He's only what, 19 and still growing at 6'11" or 10" and not exactly a toothpick ala Keon Clark. Biedrins is a down low, defender, shot blocker, etc, while Araujo is a post player. We *need a tough, defensive player, not a post scorer!!*



biedrins is not proven in anything. you have never even seen him play [strike]shut up[/strike]. look at his stats they are not even that great.

we need a post player not a tough defensive player bosh is just as good as beidrins on defense


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## butr

*Re: Re: I am smarter than u*



> Originally posted by <b>FanOfAll8472</b>!
> but if I were the Raptors GM I would've taken Biedrins. Without any thought.


If you can answer this question with a number above "zero", I will give you some level of credibility.

*How many times have you seen Biedrins play?* 



> *Without any thought*


Obviously.


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## spuriousjones

chad ford


> 8. TORONTO RAPTORS
> Rafael Araujo
> BYU | SENIOR | CENTER
> HEIGHT: 6-11 | WEIGHT: 280 | AGE: 23
> Insider scouting report
> This is the first real surprise of the draft, though, if you look at it, it makes sense for the Raptors. The need a center in the worst, worst way. Chris Bosh is much more comfortable playing the four. Araujo is the only other big guy in the draft, other than Okafor, who is ready to play right now. He's strong, aggressive and isn't afraid to beat up people. He'll be a nice addition in Toronto, though he doesn't have the upside many of the other people on the board did.


mike kahn


> 8. Toronto: Rafael Araujo, C, BYU
> 
> The Raptors have been in dire need of a big body, and they got it with the oldest player in the draft, the 290-pound Araujo, who is 24. He's a terrific passer, has decent touch and protects the slim and blossoming young Chris Bosh up front. He can hit the face-up jumper from 17 feet and that helps the Raptors.


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## Sánchez AF

This was a smart Move because Bab's say this is a long term plan to build a championship team and If Araujo will help in Bosh Develop is a smart move and Araujo could be a 10/10 guy in 3 yrs.

OT: With Harris in Dallas. Nash is probably gone and we may have a chance on him. And use the Vet Min. in a Big Man

Nash/Alvin/Mason
Carter/Lamond
Rose/Donny
Bosh/Bonner/Moiso
Araujo/Veteran FA


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## FanOfAll8472

*Re: Re: Re: I am smarter than u*



> Originally posted by <b>Dathomieyouhate</b>!
> biedrins is not proven in anything. you have never even seen him play shut up. look at his stats they are not even that great.
> 
> we need a post player not a tough defensive player bosh is just as good as beidrins on defense


Of course you and I haven't seen him but I doubt many of us on this board have seen 85% of the prospects taken today. So obviously we have to go off hearsay otherwise we can't talk about anything except guys like Iggy, Deng, Okafor, Gordon, Harris, etc. And how fun would that be? But from what I've read from him, I think he'd be a better player. I feel Bosh can be the post player and I think his potential would be better filled being a post player, not a perimeter player. We don't need more options that need the ball in their hands to score on offense, it's either more jumpshooters or a creator in my eyes.

I don't care if Bosh is as good as Biedrins on defense, because just one post man can leave you vulnerable. You saw what the Twin Wallaces, both superb defenders, did in the Playoffs. Champion teams don't win with weak interior defenders. Heck, even Shaq's sidekicks were good defenders or hustle/scrappy men that provided energy. I want the big man next to Bosh to be a a solid defender (both helpwise and man up) and a scrappy, physical guy which is what Biedrins is.

And how many times have we gone over his stats?


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## burnet

He is better than many below. 

#8 pic


2004 rafael araujo
2003	T.J. Ford 
2002	Chris Wilcox 
2001	DeSagana Diop 
2000	Jamal Crawford 
1999	Andre Miller 
1998	Larry Hughes 
1997	Adonal Foyle 
1996	Kerry Kittles 
1995	Shawn Respert
1994	Brian Grant 
1993	Vin Baker 
1992	Todd Day 
1991	Mark Macon
1990	Bo Kimble
1989	Randy White
1988	Rex Chapman
1987	Olden Polynice 
1986	Ron Harper 
1985	Detlef Schrempf 
1984	Lancaster Gordon
1983	Antoine Carr
1982	Clark Kellogg
1981	Tom Chambers
1980	Andrew Toney


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## Sánchez AF

> Originally posted by <b>burnet</b>!
> He is better than many below.
> 
> #8 pic
> 
> 
> 2004 rafael araujo
> 2003	T.J. Ford
> 2002	Chris Wilcox
> 2001	DeSagana Diop
> 2000	Jamal Crawford
> 1999	Andre Miller
> 1998	Larry Hughes
> 1997	Adonal Foyle
> 1996	Kerry Kittles
> 1995	Shawn Respert
> 1994	Brian Grant
> 1993	Vin Baker
> 1992	Todd Day
> 1991	Mark Macon
> 1990	Bo Kimble
> 1989	Randy White
> 1988	Rex Chapman
> 1987	Olden Polynice
> 1986	Ron Harper
> 1985	Detlef Schrempf
> 1984	Lancaster Gordon
> 1983	Antoine Carr
> 1982	Clark Kellogg
> 1981	Tom Chambers
> 1980	Andrew Toney


And Probably the best of this picks is Ron Harper or Detlef Schrempf 

But remember the good rookies usually come in late picks


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## Dathomieyouhate

*Re: Re: Re: Re: I am smarter than u*



> Originally posted by <b>FanOfAll8472</b>!
> 
> Of course you and I haven't seen him but I doubt many of us on this board have seen 85% of the prospects taken today.


maybe you have but in the first round i've seen most but biedrins. speak for yourself


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## ballocks

> Originally posted by <b>Dathomieyouhate</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ok first of all how were we suppose to make a move for jameer nelson? future first round pick? we don't have one. name me one guy we could of drafted that would help this team and fill in a position other than aruajo?


interesting points. look, i'm not saying we could've returned a player like nelson- and you're right, we didn't have a 1st rounder to offer- but after having seen dallas end up with stackhouse, harris and podkolzine without a first round draft pick (dropping jamison's contract in the process), it dawned on me that anything is possible. we could have packaged $3 million to any team between 16 and 23, i reckon (utah, boston and portland all had multiple picks- there's a good chance they wanted to drop one of those contracts)- and maybe even yell and his expiring deal... or whatever. the point is that other teams, more paralyzed than ours, were active, and we never seemed to be in the running. i'm not the biggest jameer nelson fan but our players are so depressed right now that we needed some new energy on the roster; we didn't get it. in my opinion, that's just short-sighted management (seriously, how do you think bosh and vince are sleeping tonight?). 

remember, we don't have the luxury of acquiring that energy via FA. we are capped out but also, more importantly, we are _toronto_- not the lakers, not the knicks. the draft is our most important event on the calendar (imo).

seeing nelson drop so dramatically should have probably, imo, had babcock off the seat of the pants, and it presumably didn't. now, i'm sure he tried but i don't think he really _tried_. and even if it weren't nelson (the 1st rounder from the magic was a package we couldn't offer), maybe we could have made a move before the draft to move up and take an energy player in the top 5? i don't know, charlotte got okafor, so again, anything's possible. 

the point is that we never seemed to be in any real discussions, although babcock differs, and we were probably the one team in this draft that needed to get involved more than the others. 

i hope araujo works out, and he has a strong skillset already, but i still maintain that he was not the right player for the toronto raptors on june 24 2004. it's just my opinion, man. 

peace


----------



## FanOfAll8472

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I am smarter than u*



> Originally posted by <b>Dathomieyouhate</b>!
> maybe you have but in the first round i've seen most but biedrins. speak for yourself


Wow you've seen those HS's and foreign players? I probably haven't seen at most 5 college players....so there I'm speaking for myself?



> He is better than many below.
> 
> #8 pic
> 
> 
> 2004 rafael araujo
> 2003 T.J. Ford
> 2002 Chris Wilcox
> 2001 DeSagana Diop
> 2000 Jamal Crawford
> 1999 Andre Miller
> 1998 Larry Hughes
> 1997 Adonal Foyle
> 1996 Kerry Kittles
> 1995 Shawn Respert
> 1994 Brian Grant
> 1993 Vin Baker
> 1992 Todd Day
> 1991 Mark Macon
> 1990 Bo Kimble
> 1989 Randy White
> 1988 Rex Chapman
> 1987 Olden Polynice
> 1986 Ron Harper
> 1985 Detlef Schrempf
> 1984 Lancaster Gordon
> 1983 Antoine Carr
> 1982 Clark Kellogg
> 1981 Tom Chambers
> 1980 Andrew Toney


I wouldn't be so quick to say that. We don't even know how good Araujo will be, not to mention that there are some respectable names on that list that I would be satistfied if Araujo developed into the same value as them.


----------



## burnet

He was 2 ½ years without seeing your family. 

Working hard and thinking at this time. 

He will be among the 5 better rookies. 

now, i am a raptors fan. 

Because of this player and of your determination. 

Wait until begin the game.


----------



## lucky777s

I think a lot of people on this board would be willing to pay Mehmet Okur big bucks to come here and play alongside Bosh.

With Araujo we get a more physical player who will give us more of what we need, but who still can hit the outside shot and keep the D honest.

Both guys have similar athletic ability.

From this point of view it is a good pick, and saves the Raps big $$$.

The Raps should have moved Marshall to pick up Nelson when he fell so far.

And the 39 pick was wasted. We could have stocked up on bigs with the Korean or Nigel Dixon, or Chris Garnett. Or gotten the guard we need with Flores or Sato.


----------



## crimsonice

well... I was quite surprised from the pick... but now that we know he's our guy, let's all give him a chance to prove his worth. Welcome to Toronto Rafael! I hope you prove all of us(critics) wrong.


----------



## FanOfAll8472

> Originally posted by <b>lucky777s</b>!
> I think a lot of people on this board would be willing to pay Mehmet Okur big bucks to come here and play alongside Bosh.
> 
> With Araujo we get a more physical player who will give us more of what we need, but who still can hit the outside shot and keep the D honest.
> 
> Both guys have similar athletic ability.
> 
> From this point of view it is a good pick, and saves the Raps big $$$.
> 
> The Raps should have moved Marshall to pick up Nelson when he fell so far.
> 
> And the 39 pick was wasted. We could have stocked up on bigs with the Korean or Nigel Dixon, or Chris Garnett. Or gotten the guard we need with Flores or Sato.


I would be willing to pay Okur. Not sure about the others, because a lot of people forget how he played during the regular season (he played very well). But that gives us 2 outside shooting big men (Okur and 'Yell, Araujo is more of a post player than a shooter). I think we should sign Jamie Lloreda or Arthur Johnson...both are big, physical, defensive big men who rebound well and block shots. Both have good work ethic and Lloreda has offensive versatility (15', inside game) and is an emotional player.


----------



## Jamel Irief

> Originally posted by <b>Carter182</b>!
> 
> 
> And Probably the best of this picks is Ron Harper or Detlef Schrempf
> 
> But remember the good rookies usually come in late picks


What??? Did you not see Andrew Toney and Tom Chambers on the list???


----------



## Sissond

*Bad pick = No; Safe pick = Yes*

I think Rafael Araujo was a safe pick at 8. Again was he worth the 8th pick, probably not, but I am sure Babcock did everything in his power to trade down or do whatever to get him later, but again he could of gotten screwed by any other team, so as he said it was a gut pick. In the end of this draft, I see a lot of positives.

1) We needed a Centre to help Bosh develop in his natural position, which is PF. Rafael will do that. He will do all the banging and physical play. Bosh will help out Rafael in blocking shots.

2) I don't think you will see Bosh injured as much next year. I think he got injured because he was getting beaten up in the paint by bigger centres.

3) The raptors cannot afford to draft projects or even take a chance. They took the best available centre, and I believe its Rafael. If we gamble and take a guy who we don't really need like Iggy, Jackson, or a project in Paval or Biedris, then free agents will never come play for us, and Vince will definately want out.

Pavel is big but he's raw. Didn't play much in Europe. I am sure he will be fine in Dallas.

Iggy wasn't a good choice for us. Yes, we could of traded him, but trades are never for sure. So if we couldn't trade, then we are stuck with too many SF's.

4) Babcock has no fear. His staff decided to take who they thought could help the team win ball games next year. They must know something about last season. The Raptors got killed in rebounding, and couldn't score. Araujo will help with rebounding.

5) I am thinking the assistant coach from Detroit is getting the head coaches job in Toronto. I wonder if Babcock asked for the guy's opinion on who to draft and who would he want on the team if he coached next year. I bet the coach said a Centre. Someone like Ben Wallace who can rebound and play physical. In my opinion, it was a good pick and a safe and wise pick for this organization.

I can't wait to see this kid play in the summer league. I want him to abuse everybody he is playing against. I bet Babcock has something up his sleeve. They should also bring over Bonner for some summer league play, and hopefully he can play next season for us. I am also going out and saying that Moiso is going to have a great season next season as Bosh's backup with DM and Bonner. You will see Moiso play some PF and some Centre.


----------



## mo76

> Originally posted by <b>burnet</b>!
> He was 2 ½ years without seeing your family.
> 
> Working hard and thinking at this time.
> 
> He will be among the 5 better rookies.
> 
> now, i am a raptors fan.
> 
> Because of this player and of your determination.
> 
> Wait until begin the game.


:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:


----------



## John

*Re: I am smarter than u*



> Originally posted by <b>Goku</b>!
> I thought that Rafael was first overall material a lonng LONG LONNNNNG time ago.
> 
> I am smarter than NBADRAFT and DRAFTCITY.
> 
> those guys suck.
> 
> from now on, I am just going on my own gut instinct, and to heck with those people.
> 
> If we took Rafael, and I just got home and don't know for sure, then I RULE. I think I'm the only person on the net who wanted him at 8 and would have taken him first overall
> 
> you all suck. I don't. Thank you.
> 
> I am better than Blowuptheraptors, Speedythief, whoever. I am smarter.. I am much better. Look up my "poster history" if u don't believer me. I wanted Raf the first time I saw him. Over a year ago. I rule you suck.
> 
> If we didn't take him, then I apologize. If not, then I am the smartest basketball poster on any messageboard.


Okay, okay. You maybe the smartest, but you never know how to use your smart to unfold here. Why? First of all, how do u expect guys here to follow a leader screename as "GOKU"? ASk around, WTF does it mean?

Second of all, you mention you are smarter than us, that's fine. I consider that you are a confident young man here. But you forgot about AGE has to be a factor as well. You must mention your age left and right here. There is no way we can pass you the "TORCH" when you are only a 18 years old kid.

You are smart, but you dont have the experience like I do. And do u have the extra burst that I have when I needed to? Calm down here.

LMAO!


----------



## Goku

*Re: Re: I am smarter than u*



> Originally posted by <b>AdamIllman</b>!
> 
> 
> shut up you moron. who ARE you??
> 
> butr and speedy are quite obviously better posters than you. If you were to have a rating my guess is that it would be one or two...and because you also know this you dont allow people to rate you. Go ahead and rate me a 1...dont really care. You're exactly the type of poster that isnt needed around here. Noone cares about your opinion...shut up..please!


sorry Adam. I was just happy. 

your probably right about whatever, but look how strong Rafael is. Guy is good. Probably would have come close to Obackpaina in the press, and close to whoever in the best bigmen gay speed drillls. 

Post scoring will be the most sought after skill in the league soon. SOON. Rule changes ensure it.

You are probably right about what you said, and it sounded great. But, Bosh isn't a down low type, and never will be. We still need one. We just got a good one. Babcock is smarter than u, maybe even me.


----------



## John

*Re: Re: I am smarter than u*



> Originally posted by <b>AdamIllman</b>!
> 
> 
> shut up you moron. who ARE you??
> 
> butr and speedy are quite obviously better posters than you. If you were to have a rating my guess is that it would be one or two...and because you also know this you dont allow people to rate you. Go ahead and rate me a 1...dont really care. You're exactly the type of poster that isnt needed around here. Noone cares about your opinion...shut up..please!


The guy is moron or not, the guy has his right to be childish, to be GOKU.

OT: But does anyone know WTF is GOKU means? By the way, I do know Gotan and Goten as well. Vegeta!!!!


----------



## DaUnbreakableKinG

He's a big guy. He should be able to help with rebounding and blocking. Can't wait to see him play. :yes:


----------



## mo76

*Re: Re: I am smarter than u*



> Originally posted by <b>John</b>!
> 
> 
> Okay, okay. You maybe the smartest, but you never know how to use your smart to unfold here. Why? First of all, how do u expect guys here to follow a leader screename as "GOKU"? ASk around, WTF does it mean?
> 
> Second of all, you mention you are smarter than us, that's fine. I consider that you are a confident young man here. But you forgot about AGE has to be a factor as well. You must mention your age left and right here. There is no way we can pass you the "TORCH" when you are only a 18 years old kid.
> 
> You are smart, but you dont have the experience like I do. And do u have the extra burst that I have when I needed to? Calm down here.
> 
> LMAO!


What does anyone mean they are "the best"
Best at what? Scouting? Basketball knowledge? Wasting your time memorizing player profiles? 

"Pass the tourch", WTF?


----------



## John

*Re: Re: Re: I am smarter than u*



> Originally posted by <b>mo76</b>!
> 
> 
> What does anyone mean they are "the best"
> Best at what? Scouting? Basketball knowledge? Wasting your time memorizing player profiles?
> 
> "Pass the tourch", WTF?


Sorry, I dont understand what you were asking there.

But may I ask you what the hell is GOKU first of all?


----------



## Ballyhoo

*Re: Re: I am smarter than u*



> Originally posted by <b>FanOfAll8472</b>!
> We *need a tough, defensive player, not a post scorer!!*


I don't get why people keep saying stuff like this. Don't you guys remember that the defense wasn't the problem last year, it was the offense? The Raptors were the worst offensive team in the league. We need scoring just as much as we need a defensive presence.


----------



## FanOfAll8472

*Re: Re: Re: I am smarter than u*



> Originally posted by <b>Ballyhoo</b>!
> I don't get why people keep saying stuff like this. Don't you guys remember that the defense wasn't the problem last year, it was the offense? The Raptors were the worst offensive team in the league. We need scoring just as much as we need a defensive presence.


That was a problem with the coaching staff, not with the players. We have guys who can score plenty, now it's time to get them to play team basketball. Defense is something else, as besides Bosh, our big men are average defenders.

Plus IMO the cure to the offensive struggles besides playing as a team and getting a system that suits everyone is to get a real point guard. Move Rose to the 3 and bring in a point who can run the offense.


----------



## Ballyhoo

*Re: Re: Re: Re: I am smarter than u*



> Originally posted by <b>FanOfAll8472</b>!
> Plus IMO the cure to the offensive struggles besides playing as a team and getting a system that suits everyone is to get a real point guard. Move Rose to the 3 and bring in a point who can run the offense.


Yeah, I agree, but the points were gone. What should the Raptors have done? Picked Nelson? That would have been way more of a reach than Araujo.

I suspect we will be back in the lottery next year. Perhaps we can snag Chris Paul or Ray Felton.


----------



## FanOfAll8472

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I am smarter than u*



> Originally posted by <b>Ballyhoo</b>!
> Yeah, I agree, but the points were gone. What should the Raptors have done? Picked Nelson? That would have been way more of a reach than Araujo.
> 
> I suspect we will be back in the lottery next year. Perhaps we can snag Chris Paul or Ray Felton.


And here is where we don't agree. I think we need a new coach (which we're getting) to help the offense. More than anything. After that, we need a scrapper, physical, defensive big man to complement Bosh. Then, comes the point IMO. That's why I would've taken Biedrins, not Araujo. Not Nelson either. But that's just my opinion and since we already have Araujo I'm already putting my vote of confidence (as if it matters) behind him and Babcock.


----------



## silverhill_27

Rafael Araujo

Best case scenario: Brad Miller

Worst case scenario: Greg Foster :sour:


----------



## Sánchez AF

Lets be realistic we are not mad because we pick Araujo we are mad Because Devin Ben or Shaun arent available Araujo was the best player available if we select Iggy he will be a becnh player same with Jackson(Behind of Rose and Carter) and Araujo is a hardworker player with good Offense


----------



## charlz

*Re: Re: stupid stupid stupid*



> Originally posted by <b>blowuptheraptors</b>!
> 
> 
> I don't understand this logic at all. He is not slow at all. Have you seen him play?
> 
> And 290 on his frame is just fine. Has Shaq broken down? Did Zo break down (other than his kidneys)? His body will be fine. He is completely proportional.


Shaq is an exception but lets consider other player around 280 lbs or more.

MacCulloch Todd - injured indefinitly
Oliver miller - too slow to defend
Zhizhi Wang - too slow to defend
Scot Pollard - oft injured
Predrag Drobnjak - ??
Kelvin Cato - missed alot of time and even when in line up is banged up
Traylor Robert - slow and injured can only play in spurts
Potapenko Vitaly - limited game
White Jahidi - injured injured injured
Menke Bateer - to slow to play
Ostertag Greg - 

...and they say babcock does his homework... what a joke


----------



## HB

Carter182 summed it up well, we are not mad at the pick, we are mad that the guys we coveted were gone by our selection. this may sound ignorant but doesnt it seem that chicago is just out to screw us. First they select Gordon and change the outlook of the draft, then our only hope in the second round Duhon was also picked up. What are they building down there, a starting lineup of guards, dont forget Jay Williams also has a chance of coming back for them next season. 
I liked Babs pick, I just thought if he had traded down we could have gotten both Jameer and Araujo, but am sure babs did all he could do and it didnt turn out well. Lets not get too excited about Biedrins, all we know is what reporters say, no one really knows if he is going to be the next great thing or the next bust, one thing is for sure with Araujo in the paint he is not going to back down. Plus he has been tested in the college ranks, lets give the man a chance


----------



## charlz

> Originally posted by <b>Mike1155</b>!
> All i'm going to say is that i hope that Rafael is going to be a good player for our team & welcome to Toronto Rafael!


I agree I am persaonlly not faulting Rafeal - best to him. But I think babcock could have traded down and unloaded Murray while still picking up Robert Swift or Andris or even Rafael. 

Rafeal obviously has the character of the type of player (hard nosed) but I hope they trim him down to 270-260.



> Originally posted by <b>silverhill_27</b>!
> Rafael Araujo
> 
> Best case scenario: Brad Miller
> 
> Worst case scenario: Greg Foster :sour:


or

<b>Best Case</b> hard nosed eddy curry with few post moves but more garbage points and rebounds.(Duckworth Kevin)

<b>Worst Case</b>Injury riddled but tougher Reeves Bryant


----------



## foul_balls

Charlz mentions some good examples of heavy C's who aren't up to par. But there are a few who contributed.

Bill Laimbeer, Rick Mahorn, Ostertag. 

One article compared Araujo to Laimbeer. If he pans out like that and is a servceable center like Laimbeer , then it's a great pick. McCollough has a freak disease (non-basketball related), so I don't think he should really be on the list of Bust centers.

Laimbeer Rookie Stats:
YEAR GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG 
80-81 70 30.4 .503 .000 .765 3.30 5.30 8.60 

APG SPG BPG TO PF P
2.7 .69 .96 1.63 4.10 9.8

If Araujo gets anything close to this, Raptor fans will be partying.

Can't judge Babcock on just one move. He also parlayed the second pick into, effectively, 2 second rounders (Pape Sow and a 2nd rounder next year), which are quite valuable since you don't have to offer a guaranteed contract. Thought that was a pretty good move.


----------



## mo76

> Lets be realistic we are not mad because we pick Araujo we are mad Because Devin Ben or Shaun arent available


This is true. That sums it up pretty well. It was just a disapointment to me when this happened. Maybe this guy will be ok.


----------



## Wilt_The_Stilt

Araujo is not like Brad Miller. The only reason for the comparison is that they both lack great quickness and they are both good passers.

However, Araujo is much stronger and much more of a low post scorer than Miller, and most of his passes come from the low post, as opposed to Miller who operates from the high post.

Don't believe that garbage about Araujo not having a low post game but being a good spot up shooter. He plays best when he can use his size to get good position down low and then use his soft touch to bank it off the glass or lay it in. He can hit the midrange shot, but he is not nearly as effective at that as he is down low.

His NBA comparison would be a slimmer Bryant Reeves, or a shorter stronger Ilgauskas.


----------



## charlz

> Originally posted by <b>burnet</b>!
> He is better than many below.
> 
> #8 pic
> 
> 
> 2004 rafael araujo
> 2003	T.J. Ford .....
> 
> .
> .
> .
> 
> 1981	Tom Chambers
> 1980	Andrew Toney


how can you say that when he has not even played - he could turn out to be Robert Archibalds Brazilian cousin.


----------



## butr

> Originally posted by <b>charlz</b>!
> *how can you say that when he has not even played* - he could turn out to be Robert Archibalds Brazilian cousin.


And yet YOU are all over the pick, hypocrite.


----------



## burnet

> Originally posted by <b>charlz</b>!
> 
> 
> how can you say that when he has not even played - he could turn out to be Robert Archibalds Brazilian cousin.


i know him.


----------



## SkywalkerAC

Anyone have Hoffa's measurements or results from the combine? i don't think he participated for some reason. I really want to know his standing reach his lateral quickness.

Araujo carries his size better than anyone outside shaq. He's not a stiff by any means. he's not a shotblocker either but he's going to be getting outside the circle and taking guys out down low while Bosh rises up from the weakside. I think he'll be a fine defender at the NBA level. 

The comparisons that I like are Okur and Brad Miller. I love the form on his hookshots and how damn strong he looks with the basketball.

I would have been happy with Biedrins too but he seems much less ready to start alongside Bosh.


----------



## TRON

Just like about every Raptor Fan out there I was totally shocked at the pick....not disappointed though...all the point guards were long gone, Childress was off the board so what were the Raptors to do?

I really was figuring they would have picked a SG or SF that we seriously didn't need, but that would have more upside than Araujo

I have come to a conclusion that whoever Babcock choose would be ridicluled either now by fans wanting athletic talent, or later on in the 2004-2005 season when we were again pathetically undersized but stacked at the 2 and 3

We as fans were all fooled into thinking that Pavel and Ramos were the top center prospects....then what happens...Aruajo and Robert Swift go ahead of both those guys, wow!

Most Mock drafts were way off this year (even considering all the trades)...Where the hell did Childress and Luke Jackson come from at the last moment, I never expected that!

Personally as one of the few people on this board that saw the center position as a much more glaring need that a PG, I am happy and believe this pick will help us more than a PG,SG or SF would have...my only reservation is that we might have passed on an NBA star down the road for more immediate help now...either way, what's done is done

We now have a respectable young frontcourt that is fundementally sound and plays B-Ball the right way...look at Chicagos young talented frontcourt duo, more athletically gifted but can you say the same?


----------



## Sánchez AF

Give Araujo one chance maybe in a couple of seasons charlz will crate the Rafael Araujo Fan club  

The charlz list is unfair Araujo is over 280 but he's not fat like Oliver or Zhi Zhi


----------



## Dathomieyouhate

Rafael Araujo (F/C; 6-11, 290 – Brigham Young) 

I was surprised because I woke up today and had no idea where I was going to be. I could have been No. 8 or No. 29. I’m really happy. I went to Toronto and had a really good workout. At the time they had no GM and no coach. I did my best and they said a lot of good things about me and I’m really happy about that. I think I will bring a lot of energy to the team. 

My goal coming into College was to make it to the NBA and that was the first step. The next step is to adapt to the team with a new coach, a new system and try to improve my game in the NBA. *My goal is to become an All-Star one day.* 

My game is a low post game, I play really physical and I rebound well. *I can run the floor well*, I can pass the ball and I have good range. If it’s tough, *I like to play inside the back of the paint. I like to bang inside and those are things I think Toronto needs. I’m going to bring toughness inside the paint, that’s what Toronto needs.* 

I think the experience that I have, I played four years in college and I improved my game each year. I think they saw my stats, they saw that I could play, they see how smooth I am inside the paint and I’ve improved my game in four years. They believe that I am good for the team and that I’m ready to play.


----------



## trick

without a doubt picking up Araujo was the safest pick, given the choices that was available and the position we were in.

he feels in one of our primary needs, a big body C that compliments Bosh really well and allows him to move onto his natural position. not only that, but he's ready to contribute come six months from now and is a complete facelift to the shy and timid players we've drafted in the past few years (Bradley, Jefferies, Mo Pete, etc.)

along with his addition he also brings depth to the roster, allowing us to move Marshall to the bench (if he's not traded) allowing us to have a viable option in case one of our starters need a breath, or Rose/Bosh goes down. 

he is, again, the safest pick at #8.

but let's picture us drafting Iguodala or Jackson or whomever has more _talent_. what exactly are we going to do with these perimeter palyers on a team stacked with perimeter shooters? trade them down for more picks or depth players? please...babcock has been trying to do that for quite some time and believe me, if our first pick was after the 12th (past golden state and seattle), we would not have gotten araujo cuz both of those teams had their sights on the three qualified big men outside of the top two choices. either way, if we had the 14th, golden state and seattle would pick up biedrins and araujo, leaving us with who...swift? 

this was the saftest pick we could've had at #8, mock draft or no mock draft.


----------



## madman

i 100% agree with tom talirico here, what the **** where they thinking picking him at the 8th? did they not notice that Jameer was not taken? Holy crap that this has to be the worst pick in franchise history and not only that they didn't even pick Duhon in the 2nd round, wow every team made improvement except for us, honestly we took a step backwards in my opinion, would any other team have taken him? no! so why not trade down and atleast get someone else with him if you are so desperate to take him. Already Babcock is pissing me off :upset:


----------



## Sánchez AF

This was a great PICK period.


----------



## FanOfAll8472

> Originally posted by <b>foul_balls</b>!
> Charlz mentions some good examples of heavy C's who aren't up to par. But there are a few who contributed.
> 
> Bill Laimbeer, Rick Mahorn, Ostertag.
> 
> One article compared Araujo to Laimbeer. If he pans out like that and is a servceable center like Laimbeer , then it's a great pick. McCollough has a freak disease (non-basketball related), so I don't think he should really be on the list of Bust centers.
> 
> Laimbeer Rookie Stats:
> YEAR GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG
> 80-81 70 30.4 .503 .000 .765 3.30 5.30 8.60
> 
> APG SPG BPG TO PF P
> 2.7 .69 .96 1.63 4.10 9.8
> 
> If Araujo gets anything close to this, Raptor fans will be partying.
> 
> Can't judge Babcock on just one move. He also parlayed the second pick into, effectively, 2 second rounders (Pape Sow and a 2nd rounder next year), which are quite valuable since you don't have to offer a guaranteed contract. Thought that was a pretty good move.


Laimbeer was a jump shooting big man, while Araujo is a post player.



> Araujo is not like Brad Miller. The only reason for the comparison is that they both lack great quickness and they are both good passers.
> 
> However, Araujo is much stronger and much more of a low post scorer than Miller, and most of his passes come from the low post, as opposed to Miller who operates from the high post.
> 
> Don't believe that garbage about Araujo not having a low post game but being a good spot up shooter. He plays best when he can use his size to get good position down low and then use his soft touch to bank it off the glass or lay it in. He can hit the midrange shot, but he is not nearly as effective at that as he is down low.
> 
> His NBA comparison would be a slimmer Bryant Reeves, or a shorter stronger Ilgauskas.


Thank you.


----------



## Sánchez AF

> Originally posted by <b>FanOfAll8472</b>!
> 
> Laimbeer was a jump shooting big man, while Araujo is a post player.


Thats not 100% truth 
Araujo has a good shot Range. plus the post moves.


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## madman

> Originally posted by <b>Carter182</b>!
> 
> 
> Thats not 100% truth
> Araujo has a good shot Range. plus the post moves.


his only post move is throwing his 300 pound *** around


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## HB

Those who criticize Babs picking this kid are probably those that have not seen him play. Here's a kid that played on a BYU and dominated most of his competition at that spot, to also have played 4 years in college shows he has learnt some things about the game. Now if we had drafted Jackson or Igoudala we all know they would be supplimenting, Araujo immediately is going to contribute. Now we can concentrate on bringing in a seasoned vet. Remember without those pieces this team was 5 or 6 games out of the playoffs in the East.


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## madman

> Originally posted by <b>Hbwoy</b>!
> Those who criticize Babs picking this kid are probably those that have not seen him play. Here's a kid that played on a BYU and dominated most of his competition at that spot, to also have played 4 years in college shows he has learnt some things about the game. Now if we had drafted Jackson or Igoudala we all know they would be supplimenting, Araujo immediately is going to contribute. Now we can concentrate on bringing in a seasoned vet. Remember without those pieces this team was 5 or 6 games out of the playoffs in the East.


well ya i have never seen him play but still i dont think that he can start in the NBA and that is what we need


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## HB

Cant start are you kidding me, I looked at that draft and besides Okafor the next NBA ready player to me is Araujo. He is obviously stronger than Bosh, not as skilled but from all I heard of this kid. he is a gym rat. With a good coach who knows how good he can be


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## Dathomieyouhate

he's gonna start all 82 games unless we get a better center which i hope we won't because we need to get a point guard with all that mle cash


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## HB

Rap fans is it too hard to dream of a starting lineup of:

Hudson
Rose
VC
Bosh/Marshall
Araujo


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## kirk_2003

i think RAPS need to look at some of the undrafted PG's and bring em in to camp... players that come to mind are...

Eynmisan Nikagbatse
Timmy Bowers 
and
Luis Flores

thoughts? :yes:


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## Sánchez AF

> Originally posted by <b>kirk_2003</b>!
> i think RAPS need to look at some of the undrafted PG's and bring em in to camp... players that come to mind are...
> 
> Eynmisan Nikagbatse
> Timmy Bowers
> and
> Luis Flores
> 
> thoughts? :yes:


And 

Omar Quintero


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## speedythief

I'd also like to see the Raps have a look at Andre Barrett [especially] and Marcus Moore.

BTW, Houston drafted Flores.


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## slash_010

lets say Araujo develops into a great centre half way through next season.. Will we see Marshall being shopped?


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## kirk_2003

most likely... we may not have the money to resign him anyways... :yes:


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## Benis007

*Re: stupid stupid stupid*



charlz said:


> RAFAEL ARAUJO at number 8?
> 
> this kid will break down @290 lbs he is way to slow - he may even be ok for a year or two but he is certain to break down with all that weight.
> 
> And passing on Andris Biedrins a far better defender with way more upside.
> 
> Babcock is grunwald all over again... we are screwed
> 
> ---------
> 
> why must I be cursed with likeing this team


i saw this thread and had to give some love to those who "pooh-poohed" this pick..

hilarious.


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## trick

Yup, it's been pretty slow in Raptorland.

In any case,  on me.


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## Zuca

How do you guys think that Hoffa will be in Utah? I mean, he is a "local guy" (was playing in BYU before arrives in Toronto), and have Okur behind him, so there won't be pressure in order to him step up as the first C... He knows that he will be a backup... I think that Utah is a better fit for him, ditto for Toronto in Humphries case.


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## Benis007

^^

not sure if the fans in utah will show him anymore love than any other Jazz player, since hoffa just played his college ball @ BYU and is originally from Brazil. The big thing that hurt him in Toronto was his lack of basketball IQ and the subsequent loss of confidence. He hadn't adjusted to the NBA game in Toronto.. he was constantly in foul trouble, committed multiple turnovers with sloppy footwork, and has trouble positioning himself for rebounds. The guy has the physical tools to play center in the NBA. Part of me says that I would hate to see him succeed after the raptors burned a 1st round pick and three seasons on him, on the other hand, watching him stumble so much in his first couple years makes me wish that he becomes a productive player in the NBA, even if its for another team.

He is the human form of Baby Huey, physically dominant, mentally deficient.


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## crimedog

speedythief said:


> I'd also like to see the Raps have a look at Andre Barrett [especially] and Marcus Moore.
> 
> BTW, Houston drafted Flores.


well, speedy...you got your wish with barrett eventually.


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## charlz

*Re: stupid stupid stupid*



Benis007 said:


> i saw this thread and had to give some love to those who "pooh-poohed" this pick..
> 
> hilarious.


Yeah - I think every other GM in TOR's conference knew they had stolen more time against the franchise when babs was hired and subsiquently took Hoffa weeks later... and then further solidified his stupidity by saying "we did not have enough time to prep for the draft..."

mean while even idots like me knew that one had a fould smell from miles away.


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## charlz

Zuca said:


> How do you guys think that Hoffa will be in Utah? I mean, he is a "local guy" (was playing in BYU before arrives in Toronto), and have Okur behind him, so there won't be pressure in order to him step up as the first C... He knows that he will be a backup... I think that Utah is a better fit for him, ditto for Toronto in Humphries case.


Hoffa will struggle even when gets to Europe... he can 1 or 2 things well
1- defend the post against smallish plotting post up players (harrington, Fizer, etc...)
2 - set picks (when he remembers what set they are running)

besides that he is a huge liability - I can count on one hand how many shots he blocked last year- 
Way below AVE in the following:
--------------------------
- speed 
- hoops IQ
- Athletacism
- full court defense (running game)
- non-post up offense
- creativity
- likeabilty (no one in the league likes him)


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## SkywalkerAC

Hoff is going to have a decent season in Utah.


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## crimedog

SkywalkerAC said:


> Hoff is going to have a decent season in Utah.


no he won't.


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## Mr. Hobbes

Zuca said:


> How do you guys think that Hoffa will be in Utah? I mean, he is a "local guy" (was playing in BYU before arrives in Toronto), and have Okur behind him, so there won't be pressure in order to him step up as the first C... He knows that he will be a backup... I think that Utah is a better fit for him, ditto for Toronto in Humphries case.


I hope he does well in Utah. I like college guys playing in the same area. Not exactly a hometwon kid, but close enough.


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## Zuca

WTChan said:


> I hope he does well in Utah. I like college guys playing in the same area. Not exactly a hometwon kid, but close enough.


Yes, he isn't a hometown kid, he is brazilian... São Paulo-born (my city is a neighbor city of his big city)


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## SkywalkerAC

crimedog said:


> no he won't.



he's going to improve on his tenure with the raps, that is pretty much a given.


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## Benis007

SkywalkerAC said:


> he's going to improve on his tenure with the raps, that is pretty much a given.


it won't take much to improve on what he did here, because he didn't do much


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## Crossword

Whatever he does in Utah, it'll show whether the fans who booed him were right or if he was just being misused here in Toronto. As a Raptors fan I'm hoping it's the former, but as a dude who stuck up for him while he was here and hated seeing him get that much hate I'm hoping it's the latter.


----------



## narrator

Jerry Sloan is going to hate Araujo. Although I guess he loved Ostertag so maybe he's hoping Araujo can become a homeless man's Ostertag. Maybe.


----------



## BBB

hope he does well.


----------



## The Mad Viking

I think he gets less minutes this year than before, and gets released sometime before next season.


----------



## SkywalkerAC

He's supposedly in even better shape and more mobile after this summer. I think Sloan has a place for a bruiser like Hoffa but Okur gets the lion's share of the minutes. Remember when I was comparing the two? whoops.


----------



## Benis007

SkywalkerAC said:


> He's supposedly in even better shape and more mobile after this summer. I think Sloan has a place for a bruiser like Hoffa but Okur gets the lion's share of the minutes. Remember when I was comparing the two? whoops.


Hasn't the "great offseason" been the story for his entire career?


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## SkywalkerAC

Benis007 said:


> Hasn't the "great offseason" been the story for his entire career?


yes, he had put in some good work in his two nba offseasons this far. he got in way better shape and quickness was noticably improved. didn't translate into productivity but there was some development.


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## JuniorNoboa

His head needs a great offseason at some point.


----------



## Benis007

^^

not too great.. don't forget the deadly poke to the eye he got last offseason.


----------



## CrookedJ

What I really want to see is what horrible tattoo (s) did he pick up this offseason? I've never seen so much ugly ink on one person before.


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## SkywalkerAC

CrookedJ said:


> What I really want to see is what horrible tattoo (s) did he pick up this offseason? I've never seen so much ugly ink on one person before.


you ever see cherokee parks' tatts? yikes.


----------



## CrookedJ

Well hmm thats a tough one I still think Hoffa's are still . . At least Cherokee's looked like a theme, like he had a plan. Hoffa's are a bunch of random lookin crap.


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## SkywalkerAC

Hoffa's competition at backup center is Jarron Collins, who knows his role but is even more unathletic than Hoffa. I think they'll split the backup minutes pretty evenly.


----------



## ballocks

in all seriousness, i think araujo will challenge for the mvp trophy this year. he's clearly on the verge of a breakout, the likes of which have rarely been seen before. his skills, intangibles, makeup, tattoos and an excellent coaching staff should really benefit his play in 06/07. i don't _know_ if it'll happen, of course- but my god, i'd be a little shocked if it didn't.

peace


----------



## SkywalkerAC

Hoffa with 5 points, 10 rebounds, 2 assists and a BLOCK last night. Walton was giving him some props. Nice to see the big man get some rare playing time with the Jazz.


----------



## TRON

Andre Igudala
Josh Smith 
Biendrins
Al Jefferson


----------



## narrator

SkywalkerAC said:


> Hoffa with 5 points, 10 rebounds, 2 assists and a BLOCK last night. Walton was giving him some props. Nice to see the big man get some rare playing time with the Jazz.


The extended Walton monologue about the pronunciation of his name was funny.


----------



## speedythief

SkywalkerAC said:


> Hoffa with 5 points, 10 rebounds, 2 assists and a BLOCK last night. Walton was giving him some props. Nice to see the big man get some rare playing time with the Jazz.


Wow! Where did that come from?

Sloan would love Araujo if it was 1992.


----------



## seifer0406

As bad as that pick was back then, I really want to see Araujo become a decent player even it is with the Jazz. I think if he keeps himself motivated, he can at least become the next Ostertag.


----------



## AK-47

The jazz organization says hoffa is the jazz player that is working the hardest out of all of them on improving his game. Even busts get 2nd chances.


----------



## SkywalkerAC

AK-47 said:


> The jazz organization says hoffa is the jazz player that is working the hardest out of all of them on improving his game. Even busts get 2nd chances.


think he might get a contract extension from the jazz? it's not like he'd be expensive.


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## speedythief

AK-47 said:


> The jazz organization says hoffa is the jazz player that is working the hardest out of all of them on improving his game. Even busts get 2nd chances.


Raps coaches always praised his work ethic, "first one in, last one out" and all that.


----------



## narrator

speedythief said:


> Raps coaches always praised his work ethic, "first one in, last one out" and all that.


It's just unfortunate he's lacking talent.


----------



## Turkish Delight

speedythief said:


> Raps coaches always praised his work ethic, "first one in, last one out" and all that.


Heh, Chuck Swirsky has said that about pretty much every rookie we've had.


----------



## AK-47

SkywalkerAC said:


> think he might get a contract extension from the jazz? it's not like he'd be expensive.


If he is playing like the way he is playing and keeps improving as much as he has, I bet they will. Maybe next year he can do what kwame did with the lakers, and not be declared a bust anymore.


----------



## Junkyard Dog13

how much a year is a guy like Hoffa worth 2 mill?


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## ¹²³

it is pretty amazing how much talk Hoffa can generate, imagine if he was a great player.


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## Dee-Zy

the sad thing is that he has the NBA body for a center.


----------



## Turkish Delight

Junkyard Dog13 said:


> how much a year is a guy like Hoffa worth 2 mill?


I don't see how he can make more than a guy like Loren Woods.


----------



## JuniorNoboa

narrator said:


> It's just unfortunate he's lacking talent.


I think his short arms and awareness are bigger issues.


----------



## JuniorNoboa

Dee-Zy said:


> the sad thing is that he has the NBA body for a center.


Not really, due to his short arms.


----------



## speedythief

AK-47 said:


> If he is playing like the way he is playing and keeps improving as much as he has, I bet they will. Maybe next year he can do what kwame did with the lakers, and not be declared a bust anymore.


#1 pick = career roleplayer?

Brown will never break out. His career path is carved in stone.

As for Araujo, he teased us in Toronto. He looked like he might turn the corner on a few occasions. Hopefully he _can_ with Utah, because he seems like a good kid. I just don't see it in him anymore.


----------



## Junkyard Dog13

Turkish Delight said:


> I don't see how he can make more than a guy like Loren Woods.


therfore if Utah does'nt pick up hias option, he will likely bounce from team to team making the vet min.

Or if he starts playing like Pryz or Foyle eithier in Utah or eleswhere some Gm may make the mistake that Grundwald did by offering a lucrative contract to Yogi Stewart.


----------



## SkywalkerAC

yeah, Hoff will get another contract, it just won't be very big. LLE at most.


----------



## JuniorNoboa

Junkyard Dog13 said:


> therfore if Utah does'nt pick up hias option, he will likely bounce from team to team making the vet min.
> 
> Or if he starts playing like Pryz or Foyle eithier in Utah or eleswhere some Gm may make the mistake that Grundwald did by offering a lucrative contract to Yogi Stewart.


He won't start playing like those two because he is absolutely not like them... it's a very flawed comparison. Those guys got money because they can block shots of men.. they were great shot blockers. Araujo can block 12 year olds.

Blocks per 48min (career)
Foyle: 4.5
Pryzbilla : 4.4
Stewart : 4.0
Araujo : 0.4


----------



## Benis007

oh snap!

even yogi has him beat!


----------



## speedythief

Shot blocking isn't his game.

I don't know what his specialty is just yet, though.


----------



## AK-47

He has did good at rebounding with Boozer not playing as many minutes and Okur when he was out for 2 games. I can live with 5/10 now and then off the bench. It won't be an every game thing, but just to get that every now and then is nice for the depth of the jazz team.

Hoffa is turning it around, I saw him in Toronto... he has improved so much. If you go to the jazz forum you will see I hated hoffa from watching him in toronto and wanted nothing to do with him even on the court. Now I don't mind when he comes in, because he is playing hard and is finding his game with the help of the coaching staff.


----------



## TJ Ford

You can probably see that Hoffa has not much talent, and he is hesitant half the time. The only he CAN do is rebounding and shoot open midrange jumpers. 
However, he is so hard working, it's almost a pity.


----------



## Knick Killer

Not a Raptor no more. Why talk about the pathetic past when the future is so bright?


----------



## arhie

Past could have been brighter with Jsmoove or Iggy, what a ****ty pick by a ****ty gm.


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