# My Randy Foye dilemma



## Ruff Draft

If Miami drafts Beasley like expected, we draft the next best talent. That being Derrick Rose. Where does this put Foye? I have a hard time believing Foye will compare to Rose in his career, but he is a great player. He's not a good enough shooter to stick at the 2 all the time. What do we do?! Draft Eric Gordon to replace McCants? :thinking2: Take a risk on a center to be Big Al's partner? :eek8:


----------



## Avalanche

The draft this season is going to be a very difficult one for the wolves, as the best player is the same as minnys best (beasley/Al)
Then the next few guys are the same as Minnys next couple in Mayo/Rose and Foye/Mccants

Really the best case scenario would have been if Hibbert or Jordan could have improved to the point they were a definite top 5 pick and it would have been worth the risk.

Foye/Mccants have started to look very legit again recently, especially against Utah... but then i guess they would just have to go with best player available, regardless of position... and work from there


----------



## billfindlay10

You guys may want to look at a Brook Lopez....7 footer who can run the floor, block shots, make free throws, post up, and hit a 15 footer. Some mocks have him as high as #3 right now.


----------



## Ruff Draft

I'm just not sold on any of the big guys this year past Beasley. Too much raw talent, and too many if's. Devon Hardin looks good, especially next to Al. I'm just not a fan of wasted picks. They piss me off.


----------



## Ruff Draft

billfindlay10 said:


> You guys may want to look at a Brook Lopez....7 footer who can run the floor, block shots, make free throws, post up, and hit a 15 footer. Some mocks have him as high as #3 right now.


Lopez is one that would work great, but I won't get hot for the guy until I see him play more. 

What about Telfair? He's shown to have game in him still here in Minne. I would hate to let him go.

Craig Smith too. He's a great player, but he's just not getting what he deserves. An being behind Al Jefferson is a major reason. I think he is as good as gone, but I hope we get something of equal worth back for him.


----------



## Avalanche

Wolves should trade all of their second rounders for a late first (pheonix or someone trying to cut costs) and get Andrew Ogilvy... 

Im still highest on Mayo... i just think he has the biggest 'star' potential of anyone in this draft, but then Beasley and Rose are almost given performers on the nba level, and Jordan/Hibbert/Lopez fit the biggest need here

decisions decisions


----------



## Avalanche

Everyone else afraid of what Mchale would do with a number 1 pick? lol


----------



## Ruff Draft

I really like Mayo too. But I just worry that if we draft someone, they have to be a pure SG. Foye is already a combo guard. Mayo + Foye both don't create that much for other players. Maybe draft Rose, and trade Foye + filler for an early pick. And draft a 2-guard/center. 

We'll put much thought into who we want as Wolve's fans, but McHale will **** it up.


----------



## Ruff Draft

I really like Eric Gordon too.

Foye
Gordon/ McCants
Brewer
Jefferson

Then we pick-up a big guy somehow. We could make a package for a late 1st. DeVon Hardin!!!


----------



## Avalanche

See although they are both Combo guards i think it could work with Mayo and Foye, both are bigger then the usual combo guards and dont have real trouble defending 2's..

Both can create offense for themselves, with Foye being much better at creating for team mates.

I think they would be great on the same team


----------



## Ruff Draft

The more I think about Foye/Mayo, the more I like it. We'll see though. I really want a center from the draft too.


----------



## Avalanche

Ogilvy would be solid next to Jefferson, i may be biased as an aussie but he'll be as good as bogut IMO, if we can use a few second rounders in trade to move up and grab him he would be a good solution at the 5... allowing us to take the best player available with our pick, which will likely be top 3 (and therefore no center worth taking)


----------



## bball2223

If you are happy with Telfair/Foye as your guards of the future than draft a big guy. If not take Mayo, or Gordon.


----------



## Ruff Draft

Maybe we can trade up to the 5-10 range picks? I think Mayo's stock has dropped so much that he'll be there. A few teams might be hot for the earlier guys.


----------



## Avalanche

Mccants is in there aswell, i think he has a higher ceiling then Telfair.

If we draft a stud guard like Mayo or Rose it may be telfair that has to go, i like him but there just may not be room.


----------



## Avalanche

Ruff Draft said:


> Maybe we can trade up to the 5-10 range picks? I think Mayo's stock has dropped so much that he'll be there. A few teams might be hot for the earlier guys.


good point

especially if Hibbert and Mayo drop below the 6ish pick range


----------



## Ruff Draft

bball2223 said:


> If you are happy with Telfair/Foye as your guards of the future than draft a big guy. If not take Mayo, or Gordon.


I'm fine with Foye at the one, but we may need more of an answer at the 2. If we draft a big-man they may not be as much of a difference maker as a guard.


----------



## Avalanche

If Mccants has another level he could be the answer at the 2, hes almost at 15ppg and if Foye/Jefferson/Draft pick all live up to the hype he would be exactly whats needed


----------



## Ruff Draft

I love McCants. He and Foye make a big, full of heart, determined, inside-out kind of guard rotation. That's why I really think we should go for a 5, but are they all going to have as much impact as the earlier guards?


----------



## Ruff Draft

Craig Smith could really be gold around that time too. Sure he is an awesome player and I love the guy. Sitting behind Al Jefferson though is never good for your career.


----------



## Avalanche

think craig will be signed elsewhere...


----------



## Ruff Draft

A player of his talent is too hard to just let go. I hope it's a S&T.


----------



## Avalanche

true... i think he'll get an offer an management will let him go

so i may not be soo against beasley, although it would require more Al at the 5


----------



## Ruff Draft

I like Beasley, but HATE Al at the 5. 

Maybe a S&T with Atlanta? Possibley Craig for Marvin?

Foye
McCants
Marvin
Jefferson
""

Bibby
Johnson
Smith
Smith
Horford


This is difficult...


----------



## Avalanche

Dont think we'll get a lot of value for Craig unfortunately.... worth a look though definately.

I think with a high pick i go with one of the impact guards and run with 
Rose/Mayo
Foye
Mccants

as the primary 3 guards, which is a pretty damn good rotation.

Any lower then 5 i start looking at Hibbert and Jordan


----------



## Ruff Draft

I agree with you talent-wise. Do we really want Foye at the 2, or benching him though? McCants seems fine as a scorer off the bench, but I think Foye needs the starter minutes this point in his career.


----------



## Ruff Draft

Draft Rose, and maybe trade Foye for a decent pick.

Rose
McCants
Brewer
Jefferson
Center. Mid-range draft pick.


----------



## Avalanche

Ruff Draft said:


> I agree with you talent-wise. Do we really want Foye at the 2, or benching him though? McCants seems fine as a scorer off the bench, but I think Foye needs the starter minutes this point in his career.


Which is really why i like Mayo for this team... 

Both are combo guards, but OJ is a bit more of a 2, and Foye a little more like a point.


----------



## Avalanche

Ruff Draft said:


> Draft Rose, and maybe trade Foye for a decent pick.
> 
> Rose
> McCants
> Brewer
> Jefferson
> Center. Mid-range draft pick.


i dont think theres value to be had for foye at the moment after a big injury season


----------



## Ruff Draft

O.J. is the one the more I think about it. Maybe we could grab a decent player for a pick-swap with another team. Pretty much every one of the next teams would be all over Rose.


----------



## Avalanche

Yeah i cant see anyone warrenting taking OJ with the first pick... but knowing the wolves luck they wont have to worry about it anyway lol


----------



## JerryWest

If you can pick Derrick Rose, you'd be stupid not to get him IMO.


----------



## Avalanche

Wonder if we will know early who mchale has his eye on like we did with Foye/Mccants in the past


----------



## Ruff Draft

KennethTo said:


> If you can pick Derrick Rose, you'd be stupid not to get him IMO.


That is easy for you to say from the outside looking in.


----------



## Mateo

Foye's not good enough to base your draft decisions on how it will affect him. I don't know what it is about this guy that still has so many people infatuated, but scoring few points on bad percentage, and getting laughably bad numbers of assists is not something that's going to make me stop and say "hmm, maybe we shouldn't draft a stud like Rose". Draft Rose and let Foye be whatever it is that's he's going to be. Time to stop coddling him (and McCants) and make them earn their spot in the rotation, whatever spot that might be.


----------



## moss_is_1

If we can we have to pick Beasley. He could play some sf with pf and Al can play some center. Then Try and sign a veteran free agent center next year when some of the contracts come off the books..


----------



## jokeaward

We can't tell until the declarations and lottery, but

1) Beasley
2) Gordon
3) Rose

If Anthony and Durant aren't playing the 4, how would Beasley be forced there?

They should get Hansbrough later, like Craig but with three more inches.

If you want a big man and he comes out
<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/oy0Wsy0peAI"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/oy0Wsy0peAI" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>


----------



## Mateo

You take Beasley, then Rose, in that order. Don't worry about who's already on the team. Look at our record and then explain to me why we shouldn't take the best player available, regardless of position. A team this bad obviously doesn't have enough talent to worry about how a player will fit into the current lineup; the current lineup stinks (as evidenced by the record).


----------



## STOMP

Avalanche said:


> The draft this season is going to be a very difficult one for the wolves, as the best player is the same as minnys best (beasley/Al)


Beasley recently measured out 6'9 in shoes with a 7' wingspan. Thats pretty close to average size for an NBA SF.

http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Nike-Hoop-Summit-Official-Measurements-2002/

Al measured 3/4 of an inch taller with 2.5" bigger wingspan at his pre-draft... I'm sure Beasley isn't anywhere close to as heavy either.

I do think MB has the handles and the outside shot to be an excellent NBA 3 and that he's the obvious choice if Mini were to get the #1

STOMP


----------



## luther

Mateo said:


> You take Beasley, then Rose, in that order. Don't worry about who's already on the team. Look at our record and then explain to me why we shouldn't take the best player available, regardless of position. A team this bad obviously doesn't have enough talent to worry about how a player will fit into the current lineup; the current lineup stinks (as evidenced by the record).


While I'm not 100% behind you in the order of those top two, I do think your main point is right on: you take the best player available. Even good teams probably shouldn't draft for position-need over talent, and there is no way a team as bad as this Minnesota team should do so. It would be nice to get that perfect fit, but it's not worth reaching for. Personally, I'd probably take Rose first overall, and I happen to believe he does work position-wise, too, as I am still not convinced Foye is the PG of the future for this team (more likely a combo, either off the bench or in a 3-guard type lineup). And if you decide Beasley is the guy, you go with him. Maybe Al plays center again, like he has most of this year. Frankly, if you look at the reality of the league, he's not particularly undersized, and the position suits his game. Or maybe you find another center and play a bigger lineup, with Beasley at 3.

Either way, the last thing you want to do is say "oh, we need a center" and pass up the top players just to take, say, Hibbert or Jordan. (I love the latter, by the way, but not with a really high pick this season.) Ask the Raptors (and Rafael Araujo) about that.


----------



## Avalanche

I think we need to work on getting a pick in the late teens, early twenties aswell and pick up a center there...


----------



## luther

Avalanche said:


> I think we need to work on getting a pick in the late teens, early twenties aswell and pick up a center there...


History is not on our side there. I just went through the past 20 drafts, reviewing the first round centers from pick 15 through the end of the round (which varied based on year, of course, as the league expanded). Wow. It's pretty bad. Only four of those years provided two centers who eventually gained regular starting jobs--and I don't mean star, featured centers, but just that the guys became regular starters. Several drafts didn't have a single regularly starting center in that range of picks.

Below is a subjective list of the top guys from each year.

1988: Mark Bryant (21st pick)
1989: Vlade Divac (26)
1990: Elden Campbell (27)
1991: Stanley Roberts (23)
1992: Oliver Miller (22)
1993: Ervin Johnson (23)
1994: Dicky Simpkins (21)
1995: Theo Ratliff (18) (Also Greg Ostertag)
1996: Jermaine O'Neal (17)
1997: Kelvin Cato (15)
1998: Rasho Nesterovic (17) (Also Nazr Mohammed)
1999: Jeff Foster (21)
2000: Jamal Magloire (19) (Also Primoz Brezec)
2001: Samuel Dalembert (26) (Also Brendan Haywood)
2002: Nenad Krstic (24)
2003: Kendrick Perkins (27)
2004: David Harrison (29)
2005: Johan Petro (25)
2006: Josh Boone (26)
2007: Tiago Splitter (28)

In short, banking on a legitimate center in that range of picks doesn't seem wise. However, in more recent years, using that pick on international players was a decent strategy.


----------



## Avalanche

The Aussies havnt gotten much press, a pick in the early twenties for Ogilvy, or late twenties for Jawai may be well worth a look... i may be a little biased but they are legit 5's and could work out well here


----------



## luther

Avalanche said:


> The Aussies havnt gotten much press, a pick in the early twenties for Ogilvy, or late twenties for Jawai may be well worth a look... i may be a little biased but they are legit 5's and could work out well here


Or maybe they'd be the next version of the last Aussie center taken in the late 1st round: Chris Anstey!

Seriously, I've only seen highlights of Jawai, and haven't been impressed by those. But highlights are virtually worthless. And I've only seen one game of Ogilvy, so I can't say there, either. But I'd hope he'd stay in college.


----------



## Avalanche

luther said:


> Or maybe they'd be the next version of the last Aussie center taken in the late 1st round: Chris Anstey!
> 
> Seriously, I've only seen highlights of Jawai, and haven't been impressed by those. But highlights are virtually worthless. And I've only seen one game of Ogilvy, so I can't say there, either. But I'd hope he'd stay in college.


dont mention anstey... i hate that guy lol

Ogilvy's almost as good as Bogut was at that age IMO


----------



## NewAgeBaller

If you steal the #1 pick, and Beasley is still the consensus #1 pick, is there any real chance you pass up on Beasley?
I don't mean the possibility of trading down, but would you consider drafting any of the guards with the 1st pick ahead of Beasley cause it would mean playing Al at center?


----------



## luther

NewAgeBaller said:


> If you steal the #1 pick, and Beasley is still the consensus #1 pick, is there any real chance you pass up on Beasley?
> I don't mean the possibility of trading down, but would you consider drafting any of the guards with the 1st pick ahead of Beasley cause it would mean playing Al at center?


Most of the season I'd have said yes, I'd take Rose #1. I don't care that history says you don't take a smaller guard at #1, and I don't care about positions of need with the Wolves (that's all we have are needs...). I just thought Rose was the best player. However, Beasley has won me over to a great extent. I'm still not sold on him 100%, but it's getting there. 

While it wouldn't play into my decision whether to draft him, if we did draft him, I think he could play alongside Jefferson, too. You could certainly go small and run Jefferson in the middle and Beasley at PF. And if/as Beasley improves his ball-handling and middle game, he could shift to SF. (While he shoots from deep pretty well, I haven't yet been impressed with the other perimeter skills--handling, smart passing, etc.)

A lineup--assuming we re-sign certain players--of Telfair, Foye, Brewer, Beasley and Jefferson, with McCants and Gomes as the first guys off the bench, would be interesting. (I don't think we'll be able to re-sign Smith. We won't want to spend the money on a player who is one-dimensional, with the dimension being one filled by our current best player.)


----------



## Ruff Draft

Jefferson is a liability on defense when he plays center. That's no good.


This situation still sucks.


----------



## luther

Ruff Draft said:


> Jefferson is a liability on defense when he plays center. That's no good.
> 
> 
> This situation still sucks.


Well the situation is going to suck regardless: one player--no mater who--from this draft isn't going to make this a championship team. But a Beasley-Jefferson frontcourt is one that can outscore a lot of frontcourts. (Yes, that's a projection for Beasley, and I know he'd have to improve to be able to take the physical pounding he'd get from NBA 4s. But he has the size, athleticism and talent, at least.) 

And what's more, defense is something that can be learned.

Jefferson has improved dramatically on defense this season, and he is a hard worker. It's the easy cliche to say he's bad on that end, but watch him game-to-game and you see the improvement. And with his size and wingspan, he's not terribly undersized (just a little so). If the team goes uptempo, I don't think he'd have issues that can't be corrected with continued improvement. Beasley would probably be a bigger defensive liability than Jefferson, at least at first.

The only guy who can really help interior defense would be DeAndre Jordan, and he's not really ready to be all that effective in the NBA right away, either. Otherwise you're looking at Hibbert, who I think would get killed, and Lopez, who's a decent shot-blocker but not someone I'd consider an NBA stopper in the middle, either.

You have to take the best talent and trust that players will improve with coaching. And for all the **** people give Wittman and his staff, Telfair, Brewer, McCants and Jefferson are all much better players than they were at the beginning of the season.


----------



## jokeaward

Hmm, if Beasley really is so disruptive to our lineup, which I doubt, trade him and Walker for a center.

Maybe Okafor and Ray Felton, put a "ROSE" on Felton's jersey.


----------



## Avalanche

Nice game from Foye tonight, showing what he can do...

sorry bout the lack of game threads lately boys. new job and havnt got net access yet


----------



## Ruff Draft

Lopez is looking more and more like Jefferson's running mate.


----------



## luther

As Foye gets healthy and in game shape, he continues to make me a believer that he's a key piece of our rebuilding team ... but not the primary PG. Maybe a starting SG. Maybe a combo with another combo (as Jaric is doing now) beside him. But I just don't see him running a true PG spot. It's not his game, and he's at his best when he's looking to score (at least at this stage of his career).


----------



## Avalanche

Foye/Mayo back court is still the best case scenario for this team IMO...

Mccants is one of my favourite players but if he has to turn into a star somewhere else he may have good trade value for the wolves in the off-season


----------



## Ruff Draft

I really like drafting Mayo, especially if we can trade some stuff for a later pick. Plenty of big men we could look at then too.


----------



## Avalanche

I still get that feeling that out of this class Mayo is the most likely to become a Kobe/Wade type of player (not saying he will, nor that his style is anything like those guys but just potentially)


----------



## Ruff Draft

I like what I have seen from Brook's brother, Robin.

He could be a atheltic stopper next to Al.

Draft O.J. and trade both 2nd rounders to grab Robin?


----------



## Ruff Draft

Robin has been real solid. He would be a 7 foot Varejao next to Jefferson. I think he is the one for us after Mayo. Those 2 picks would be perfect for me.


----------



## luther

Grabbing R. Lopez late would be nice. As for OJ Mayo, not for me.


----------



## Avalanche

Mayo/R.Lopez = perfect draft for the wolves if you ask me


----------



## bruno34115

There is no way we can pass on Derrick Rose now. This kid is an absolute stud.


----------



## Ruff Draft

If we get the one or the two, Rose is coming to Minne. After that, I want Mayo.


----------



## Avalanche

Yeah Rose has looked awesome, but with the wolves winning, and a few other teams tanking it the pick will probably be in the 3-5 range


----------



## luther

Avalanche said:


> Yeah Rose has looked awesome, but with the wolves winning, and a few other teams tanking it the pick will probably be in the 3-5 range


Shoot, it would be in that range if the lottery doesn't hurt us. And the lottery _always_ hurts us! I usually just assume we're going to drop the maximum three spots, and if we drop less, I consider it good luck.


----------



## Avalanche

luther said:


> Shoot, it would be in that range if the lottery doesn't hurt us. And the lottery _always_ hurts us! I usually just assume we're going to drop the maximum three spots, and if we drop less, I consider it good luck.


lol very true... also portland winning with the same chance percentage as the wolves last year hurt


----------



## MLKG

Why the hesitation about Beasley? He's a small forward in the NBA.


----------



## bruno34115

MLKG said:


> Why the hesitation about Beasley? He's a small forward in the NBA.


No hesitation what so ever on Beasley, if we get the number one pick he's the man. I, for one, would like to see us get the second pick and get Rose tho.


----------



## jokeaward

Let's just assume we're Minnesota and don't get 1 or 2.

I have a question about OJ Mayo... how is he not better than Brandon Roy and All-Star, ROY, and successful pick? If Mayo had to stay two more years I bet he would put up a better line than Roy did, in fact

Mayo 07-08 20.7/4.5/3.3 3.5 TO, 44.2/40.9/80.3
Roy 05-06 20.2/5.6/4.1 *2.3 TO*, *50.8*/40.2/81.0

Roy was more efficient but not worlds different, not to mention how this is a departure from all that Mayo had done in terms of passing and has shown he can do with brilliance. OJ is apparently capable on defense.

I'm not sold on Lopez compared to later centers.

It's OJ Mayo! He was a phenom and I'm not sure what he did to cost him that.


----------



## Ruff Draft

I like Beasley, but do you guys really think he is a SF? His game seems too PF to me and his size is similar as well.


----------



## Avalanche

I think he'll end up at PF aswell personally.


----------



## Ruff Draft

I'd love to have a SF with his potential, but we don't want 3 PF with game. Craig Smith is already wasting away on the bench.

Nobody is taking Al Jefferson's spotlight.


----------



## MrJayremmie

If i were you guys, i'd draft Rose with your first pick.

Then trade a combo of a Foye, McCants, future picks, cash and stuff and move into the #7ish spot and get Gordon.

A Rose, Gordon, Jefferson core would be cool. You still have Gomes also at the 3.

Just what i think. It would be damn near impossible to get Gordon if you already used your first on Rose, but meh, we can dream right?

Mayo will be good, but not as good as Rose, imo. Watching the PGs dominate the playoffs this year really makes it clear that to be a contender, a top tier PG will really help (Billups, Parker, Paul, Williams). Teams without high level PGs like Dallas, Boston, Washington (injured Gilbert), Houston are stuggling, no matter how well they did in the regular season.

Mayo is more of a combo guard. He is around 6'5. Rose being a 6'4 true PG is just too good to pass up, imo.

Also, i think that Gordon will be close to as good of a scorer on offense as Mayo.

This is from an un-bias non-homer view, as i'm a portland fan. I'm not sold on Hibbert, or Lopez. They did well, but they were playing vs. college players where their size really helped them a lot. In the NBA, it will be different. As they will not be the tallest or strongest out there.


----------



## luther

A great idea, except we're almost certainly not going to be in a position to draft Rose. (Oh, and I personally wouldn't draft Gordon with any lottery pick.)


----------



## Avalanche

Yeah, the top 2 is unlikely to impossible.... and hopefully mayo is on the board when this team picks


----------



## luther

Impossible, that is, for the Wolves--whom the god of statistics hate. A 15% (or whatever it is) chance may as well be .000001%. Or just zero.

As for Mayo, I'm still not on board. I can't make myself like him.


----------



## moss_is_1

Mayo probably has the most "superstar" potential along with Derrick Rose. Mayo is more of a combo guard while Rose is a pure point. I wouldn't mind having either one on our team next year, but if I had to choose it would be Rose.


----------



## f22egl

I think Foye would be a great fit for Washington, especially if Arenas walks. What about Andray Blatche and a 1st round pick?


----------



## Ruff Draft

f22egl said:


> I think Foye would be a great fit for Washington, especially if Arenas walks. What about Andray Blatche and a 1st round pick?


If we draft Rose, I would consider it.


----------



## moss_is_1

f22egl said:


> I think Foye would be a great fit for Washington, especially if Arenas walks. What about Andray Blatche and a 1st round pick?


Idk if they would be willing to give that much for Foye since he's coming off a pretty big injury..


----------



## MrJayremmie

I understand what you guys are saying. I'm a Blazer fan though, and we had the 6th worst record last year and got the #1 pick.



> As for Mayo, I'm still not on board. I can't make myself like him.


I'm with you there. IDK why i don't like him. Probably because imo he is sooo overhyped. He didn't meet expectations at all this year, though he is still talked about like an awesomeo player. 

I think it will take him like 3 seasons to start being a scorer. IMO he will end up being a spark off the bench being that he is a 6'4 combo guard.


----------



## Ruff Draft

I'm never sure Mayo is really over-hyped. He had great numbers in college. Although the numbers don't tell it all, watching him was a treat. He's got an awesome scoring mentality and can get it anywhere on the floor. He has the potential to be a lock-down defender as well.

20 PPG
44 FG%
40 3P%
4.5 RPG
3.3RPG
1.5 SPG


----------



## NewAgeBaller

Well he's definately a unique talent. Watching him stop and knock down a 3 from like 2-3 ft behind the line was always fun 

I'm not sure he's so overrated, if at all. He was, but when he started playing poorly and not living up to expectations, a lot of people threw him under the bus pretty quick. He's on par with Bayless I reckon, but with more potential.


----------

