# More Battier rumors



## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

http://www.suntimes.com/output/bulls/cst-spt-camp06.html 


I really think this is becoming a serious possibility. It all will depend on what Paxson thinks about Pietrus after he sees him. If he is not blown away I think he deals for Battier. The deal in this article is Fizer,#7 for Battier,#13, I would like to see Erob and Wesley Person added to this so we can lose ERobs contract. Then draft Diaw at #13 and add a veteran center in FA with the MLE, Sean Rooks works for me( or someone similiar).



Crawford,Williams
Rose,Person
Battier,Diaw
Chandler, Marshall
Curry,Rooks


I really like the makeup of that team. This will also give Crawford and Williams a chance to play together.


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## ScottVdub (Jul 9, 2002)

that sounds like a winner to me. Battier is a player that will just make the whole team better. He could fill a big piece. If Williams and Crawford play well together and make rose a player we essentially dont need maybe we can trade him at the deadline for the terrell brandon injury exception and get a ton of cap space which will put us in good position for years to come.

Diaw could probably take battiers starting job in a couple years and shane would also be good off the bench, the whole thing is just a win win situation.


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## Squirrel (Jul 25, 2002)

*That's too much*

I would hate to give up both Fizer and the #7 for Battier. If West is really so hot for the Pietrus, the Bulls should just draft him and then try to deal him for Battier straight up. Or they could just keep him.


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## Chicago_Cow (Mar 5, 2003)

*Re: That's too much*



> Originally posted by <b>TheSquirrel</b>!
> I would hate to give up both Fizer and the #7 for Battier. If West is really so hot for the Pietrus, the Bulls should just draft him and then try to deal him for Battier straight up. Or they could just keep him.


:rofl: learn how to read. The article said, " Fizer and 7th for Battier and 13th." BTW, Fizer has been reported at being 278 lbs right now.


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

Very interesting.

I think Battier would be a nice fit for the Bull. I won't miss Fizer, and there would be a good pick still around at #13. Diaw, Hayes even Wade could slip.

I agree though, adding E-Rob would be cake if we could do it. As I said before.... ERob/Fizer/#7 for Person/Battier/#13 works under CBA.


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## Kismet (Mar 1, 2003)

http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/sports_story.asp?intID=37778177

While the Grizz aren't mentioned directly in this article, it seems that Pietrus is garnering enough attention throughout the NBA to make our #7 pick appear more valuable as each day passes.

"He has special athletic ability," said Gary Brokaw, director of player personnel for the Orlando Magic. "He'll be one of the better athletes coming into this draft." 

"He's a 6-6, two or three man (shooting guard or small forward) that comes in and starts in this league," said a Western Conference scouting director, who asked not to be identified. "He's a top-10 pick for sure." 

A native of the Caribbean island of Guadeloupe, Pietrus is regarded as the most athletic player in Europe, an aggressive defender and one who has an improving outside shot. He averaged 12.2 points and shot 58 percent from the field in French league play. 

If the Bulls were a more veteran team, a winning team, and a team with a more balanced roster positionally, its a no brainer...they draft Pietrus and work him into the rotation over time.

But the Bulls are among the youngest, least experienced teams in the league who considered last year a success because they won _30 games_. They also are extremely deep at a number of positions (pg and pf) and woefully thin at another (sf). From what I've read about Pietrus, while he's being viewed as a swing position player, the "Euro Jordan" label and other characterizations lead me to believe that his best position may eventually be as a shooting guard.

The Bulls don't need another shooting guard. They need a legitimate SF with enough size and strength to hold his own defensively against the bigger, stronger 3's that seem to be redefining the position.

That tells me that Pietrus has more value to the Bulls as trade bait for an accomplished SF than as a young talented prospect, a commodity the Bulls have too much of already.

Is Battier _the_ answer? I think he's _an_ answer, in fact, he's a very good answer. Could the Bulls go in another direction at SF? Sure they could. Bottom line, though, I just don't think the "Euro Jordan" is the guy to plug our hole at SF. And that's only because I think he'll make his mark as a SG instead.


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## NorthSideHatrik (Mar 11, 2003)

Trade for battier and then draft Hayes at 13.... That would be a huge pick up for the bulls. Battier is exactly what you need. An outstanding defender, garbage man, excellent attitude, and won't complain about not getting shots. Jarvis Hayes is going to be a steal too. He's outstanding running the floor and has a killer outside shot (over 40% from 3 pt.) and above average defense, moves very well with out the ball, his only draw back is his poor ball handling sometimes limits what he can do. He's money running the break and he's money shooting off screens.


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## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

Hayes is the pick unless Person is included in the deal for ERob( the trade VD mentioned). If that happens then you pick Boris Diaw. I really like his versatility, ball handling abilities, defense. I really see him as an eventual Rose replacement. I pick him him regardless. He brings more to the table than Hayes does.


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## NorthSideHatrik (Mar 11, 2003)

I don't know about that man. Players with the athleticism of Hayes who also shoot 40+% on 3 pointers are hard to find. Ballhandling can be improved with good coaches. Hayes is outstanding.


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## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

Oh I think Hayes is a fine player just that if him and Diaw are on the board you have to pick Diaw. Having two defenders like Battier and Diaw would be really good for us. With Crawford,Williams,Rose,Person(hopefully) we would not need another shooter, we would need another defender more.


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## Squirrel (Jul 25, 2002)

*Re: Re: That's too much*



> Originally posted by <b>Chicago_Cow</b>!
> 
> 
> :rofl: learn how to read. The article said, " Fizer and 7th for Battier and 13th." BTW, Fizer has been reported at being 278 lbs right now.


Let me make myself more clear. If the Bulls are going to make a trade with Memphis, I think they should offer Pietrus for Battier. And nothing more. That's about what he's worth, IMO

Adding Fizer and the #13th pick to that deal is like saying Fizer is only worth the #13th pick. I think he's better than that.

(The Bulls don't need to make a move at all)


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## curry_52 (Jul 22, 2002)

What would you rather have:
Fizer or Battier?
#7 or #13?

Battier isnt on Jerry West plan, so theres no need to give up that much for him. On the other hand, Fizer is the Bulls 6th man and once he went down last season Chicago suffered it Big Time. 
This deal suc*s, theres no need to pull the trigger. 
I hope Paxson doesnt hit the Rookie Wall during Draft Night


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## RealFan (Jun 12, 2002)

I know I'm in the minority on this - but I would really, really miss Fizer if this trade went down. I think he was just beginning to show us his potential before he was injured. Fizer was rebounding more consistently and playing better defense. He also was THE offensive option in the 4th quarter of many games and I firmly believe the Bulls win 35 games had Marcus not been injured. 

I'd love for us to be able to keep Marcus and obtain someone like Battier.


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## Modena360 (May 22, 2003)

*I like Battier BUT*

Do we really want a guy that Jerry West thinks is expendable? See I am not really sure about that. He is not pulling a fast one is he? But maybe I am just being protective of Fizer, I really like his game down low. And what is there for us if can't get Pietrus now?


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## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

Take this deal and run. If Curry and Chandler turn into the players we expect you wont miss Fizer. We need a defensive minded SF who can shoot it when open from perimeter. Battier fits that with a glove.


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## RealFan (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>basghetti80</b>!
> Take this deal and run. If Curry and Chandler turn into the players we expect you wont miss Fizer. We need a defensive minded SF who can shoot it when open from perimeter. Battier fits that with a glove.


I don't necessarily disagree. What worries me is that when the Bulls get into a half court set, the only post-up player they have (if Fizer is gone) is Curry. I think having both of those guys on the floor at the end of a game creates some very difficult situations on defense. I'd hate to find out one year from now that all we need is someone else who can post up to take the triple team pressure off of Curry.


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## Benny the Bull (Jul 25, 2002)

> If the Bulls are going to make a trade with Memphis, I think they should offer Pietrus for Battier.


Can't happen. We would have to throw in salary to match up with Battier, since draft picks have no value. Hassell, Bagaric, Baxter and the pick for Battier works.

My preference is to take Pietrus and trade for Battier, which I think is possible. 



> I would like to see Erob and Wesley Person added to this so we can lose ERobs contract.


I don't see this happening, even though it would be good. Isn't it rumored that The Logo is making a run at getting Kobe as an FA in 2004? If he can trade Wright for an expiring deal, he could do it. Even if they don't want Bryant, trading Person for E-Rob doesn't make since for them. It would be stupid since Miller and Gasol can soon get extensions.



> It all will depend on what Paxson thinks about Pietrus after he sees him. If he is not blown away I think he deals for Battier.


I think that's right. I think if we draft anyone, we take a SG. This may seem stupid, but let me explain. He could be a long term replacement for Rose, so he could give you the option of dealing Rose if Reinsdorf has issues with luxury tax. Secondly, playing behind Rose, he has a small role in the rotation, so you aren't adding much youth to core. If you draft a SF, he has a greater role, and more pressure to perform since he has more responsible because all there is is E-Rob. So my plan would be to draft a SG and trade for a SF. I think Battier is that man.


P.S. They say that West is high on Pietrus, but remember, it could be a smokescreen.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

Thinking about this proposed deal. I don't really se why the Bulls should give up the #7 & Fizer for Battier and the #13. Personally I see Fizer as being more valuable than Battier. In fact, I would almost think that the Bulls should maybe be able to get Battier & the #13 for something like Fizer and Hassell. In any case, I don't see why the Bulls would do this deal. Memphis isn't in a position of strength to force the Bulls to overpay.


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## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

> I don't necessarily disagree. What worries me is that when the Bulls get into a half court set, the only post-up player they have (if Fizer is gone) is Curry. I think having both of those guys on the floor at the end of a game creates some very difficult situations on defense. I'd hate to find out one year from now that all we need is someone else who can post up to take the triple team pressure off of Curry.





I certainly see where you are coming from. But here is how I see it having another guy off bench who can post up well and score is a luxury whereas a SF who can defend and shoot is a necessity for this team. Anyways you mentioned having Curry and Fizer on the floor at the end of the game together. Where is TC is this scenario, I would much rather have his defense out there.


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## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

Call me a basketball purist or whatever but I dont think this is overpaying and I think Battier is more valuable to us than Fizer. But that is just me I suppose.


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## RealFan (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>basghetti80</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What you say makes sense. I think I'm just too hung up on the Bulls giving up what I feel is their best or second best low post scoring option. 

If we could trade our #7 pick and filler for Battier and the #13, I'd feel a lot better.


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

Battier brings more to this team than just defense at the wing position.

He's probably one of the brightest, mature, young players in the L. Adding him helps Jay, helps the twin towers, and helps the chemistry of the team. Do you think Shane would ever pout (Jay), walk out of practice (Trent) yell at an assistant coach (Donyell), or be in the coaches doghouse? No. And no.

The Bulls roster is stacked with PGs and PFs (courtesty of Jerry Krause). We need to get a legit two-way SF.


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## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

Ok so far there are basically 4 possible scenarios we have laid out:


Keep # 7 and draft Pietrus ( or Wade)

Trade Williams,#7 for Melo,filler

Trade Erob,#7 for Hedo,Pollard

Trade Fizer,#7 for Battier,#13



Now which one is the best for our team?


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## Benny the Bull (Jul 25, 2002)

> I think Battier is more valuable to us than Fizer.


That is right. What Battier can offer the Bulls is more valuable than what Fizer can, mainly because we need a player similar to Battier and Fizer's influence is diminished playing off the bench behind Chandler and Curry. However, Most people probably think Fizer will become a better player than Battier. This is why I would have difficulty trading Fizer & 7 for Battier & 13. The problem is Fizer is injured so his value is lower. Fizer for Battier is fair. Then take Pietrus at 7.

Also, why would Memphis want Fizer when they have Swift and Gasol? I think the only attraction for Fizer is his expiring contract.


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## RetroDreams (Jun 9, 2002)

"The Grizzlies are trying to move up in the draft to get their hands on French two guard Mickael Pietrus, a league source told Insider on Wednesday. They feel he'll be off the board when they pick at No. 13. Chicago has been looking hard at Pietrus, and the Grizzlies know they either have to trade with the Bulls or get ahead of them to have a chance. What might get it done? How about Shane Battier, Ryan Humphrey and the No. 13 pick for Marcus Fizer and the No. 7?"

Now they are adding Ryan Humphrey as well... Hell, if Pietrus isn't our guy that we want, why not get another future pick out of Memphis as well?

Otherwise, keep him. The hype on him is growing daily.


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## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

An aspect of Battier's game that gets overlooked is his shooting. We know he is a very smart player, good defender, hustles, gets charges,etc but he is also a very good shooter. This past season he shot 48% from the field, 40% from three point land, and 83 % from the line.


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## giusd (Apr 17, 2003)

I have not seen him play and know no more that anyone else but why is memphis so interested in trading up for him? That is what catches my eye. All the trades i hear basically involved memphis getting rid of Battier and replacing him with Pietrus. So they want our 7th pick to draft pietrus and give us Battier who they don't want. Menphis clearly thinks pietrus is better than battier so why would we take a player they don't want and give up Fizer who we do need. 

I say if Pietrus is that good we should just draft him. As long as Paxson sees him play a agrees. And keep Fizer would knows our system. The more stability on the team the better they will play next year. In addition, if we lose fizer we will have only one other big man, marshall, who is more a sf/pf then a pf/C so we will have to find another big man to replace him. The only way we give up fizer is if we get S. Swift as well. Bottom line is Memphis just doesn't want Battier so why should we. This team has plenty of players i say lets add the next piece and someone who can play with rose and take his place in 3 to 4 years. The bulls will be a major time up tempo team and we should add player who can play D and run ther court. Battier has good fundimentals but is at best an average athlete. In addition, at 13 we will not get wade. So we are looking at a player at 13 that will be of little help. Paxson should take the best player, period.

david


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## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

While we are at it I would not mind adding Dahntay Jones with our second round pick along with trading for Battier. Jones would give us another athletic defender off the bench.


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## Lizzy (May 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>basghetti80</b>!
> Call me a basketball purist or whatever but I dont think this is overpaying and I think Battier is more valuable to us than Fizer. But that is just me I suppose.


I agree. We need a defensive SF and don't need 4 PF's so how is this overpaying? 

I was anti-Battier until I saw Memphis play the Lakers. He defended Kobe really well.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

This is getting interesting. Battier and humphreys and #13 for Fixer and #7. Hmmm. Would have to look hard at this one. But as one poster brought up, why does memphis want to get rid of Battier? One reason could be miller made him expendable. But then it the #7 pick is that good, why do we trade it? Could he do the same thing that Battier could and we still keep fizer? I would not be against the trade but it is raising some questions now that i never had before.


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>RetroDreams</b>!
> "The Grizzlies are trying to move up in the draft to get their hands on French two guard Mickael Pietrus, a league source told Insider on Wednesday. They feel he'll be off the board when they pick at No. 13. Chicago has been looking hard at Pietrus, and the Grizzlies know they either have to trade with the Bulls or get ahead of them to have a chance. What might get it done? How about Shane Battier, Ryan Humphrey and the No. 13 pick for Marcus Fizer and the No. 7?"
> 
> Now they are adding Ryan Humphrey as well... Hell, if Pietrus isn't our guy that we want, why not get another future pick out of Memphis as well?
> ...


The great Jerry West will overpay for someone he wants.

Drew Gooden and Gordon Giricek for Mike Miller.

Uh huh.

E-Rob/Fizer/#7 for Battier/Person/#13. Take it or leave it Jerry 




VD


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## rosenthall (Aug 1, 2002)

I think a lot of you people are overestimating Fizer's value a bit. He's a nice player, but I would not be very sad to see him go. There are lots of 6'7 PF's in the league who can score, and are subpar rebounders and defenders. Othella Harrington, Corliss Williamson, Clarence Weatherspoon. As much as I hate to say it, I doubt Marcus will ever be a whole lot more than these guys. 

And when you account for the fact that Tyson and Eddy will be getting close to 35 mpg starting next year, and that Marcus can't play Center and has an incompatible game with Eddy Curry, I think it's pretty clear that he doesn't have a prominent role with this team in the future. Add in the fact that he's coming up for a contract extension, and if we met it, we would eventually be paying a guy 6 million a year to come off the bench for 15 minutes a game. I like Marcus, but on this team I think he'll quickly become a player we have no use for, and it wouldn't make sense to not trade him for a player like Battier, whose game is a lot more valuable in general, and hell of a lot more valuable to this team.

Now, mind you, I'm not necessarily for this trade, since I know so little about Mickael Pietrus and there seems to be so much buzz about him, but if this team were to not make this trade, I don't think it should be because of Marcus Fizer.


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## realbullsfaninLA (Jan 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>RealFan</b>!
> I know I'm in the minority on this - but I would really, really miss Fizer if this trade went down. I think he was just beginning to show us his potential before he was injured. Fizer was rebounding more consistently and playing better defense. He also was THE offensive option in the 4th quarter of many games and I firmly believe the Bulls win 35 games had Marcus not been injured.
> 
> I'd love for us to be able to keep Marcus and obtain someone like Battier.


I agree with you absolutely 100%!!! Keep Marcus Fizer.He is a potential 6th man of the year.If Curry gets in foul trouble,when can insert Marcus and not lose that much of an offensive post presence.I can't stress enough how important it is to have an enforcer on the squad.Fizer certainly is that.

Fizer is a great character guy with great work ethic.PLUS,we can't overlook team chemistry and the importance of it.


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## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

Chemistry is very important no doubt but FIzer is not part of the core. A GMs job is to surround the core with players that compliment them and make for the best mix. Chandler,Curry,Fizer,Marshall,Baxter all on same team does not make a lot of sense. That is 5 post players with only 2 who should be getting any minutes at the 5.


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## RealFan (Jun 12, 2002)

I think you hit the nail on the head. I consider Fizer part of the core. And that's why I think this trade is bad. However, from your perspective, I think I can understand the trade.

Let's see what Pax does.


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## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

I dont see how Fizer is part of the core. Crawford,Chandler,Curry, and MAYBE Williams are the core.


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rosenthall</b>!
> I think a lot of you people are overestimating Fizer's value a bit. He's a nice player, but I would not be very sad to see him go. There are lots of 6'7 PF's in the league who can score, and are subpar rebounders and defenders. Othella Harrington, Corliss Williamson, Clarence Weatherspoon. As much as I hate to say it, I doubt Marcus will ever be a whole lot more than these guys.
> 
> And when you account for the fact that Tyson and Eddy will be getting close to 35 mpg starting next year, and that Marcus can't play Center and has an incompatible game with Eddy Curry, I think it's pretty clear that he doesn't have a prominent role with this team in the future. Add in the fact that he's coming up for a contract extension, and if we met it, we would eventually be paying a guy 6 million a year to come off the bench for 15 minutes a game. I like Marcus, but on this team I think he'll quickly become a player we have no use for, and it wouldn't make sense to not trade him for a player like Battier, whose game is a lot more valuable in general, and hell of a lot more valuable to this team.
> ...


I agree with this. I have no special attachment for Marcus. Jamal, Eddy and Tyson (and possibly Jay) are the future of this team. Marcus is at best a scoring 6th man. Donyell, who is signed for 2 more years, does more things than Marcus and they play the same position. Time to clean up the roster folks.




VD


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## RealFan (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>basghetti80</b>!
> I dont see how Fizer is part of the core. Crawford,Chandler,Curry, and MAYBE Williams are the core.


Again, we almost agree. I don't think Williams is but I do think Fizer is.


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

C'mon guys.

Is Spoon part of the core in NY?
Is Williamson part of the core in Detroit?
We are a bad NBA team that needs to improve. Trading some of your assets to improve the team overall is part of the game, ya know? I'd be mildy sad to see him go, but having the first legit two-way SF here in Chicago since Pippen would help ease the pain 




VD


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## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

I just dont see how a sixth man can be part of a core. Like I heard someone else say 6'7 tweeners are a dime a dozen. Yeah he can score but so can most everyone in the league.


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## RealFan (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Vin Diesel</b>!
> C'mon guys.
> 
> Is Spoon part of the core in NY?
> ...


I don't think we're that far apart. I'd much rather trade Jay and keep Marcus. Otherwise, we bascially agree about the rest of the team. I just don't see why we want to trade our best or second best post up player. I think Marcus has the potential to be an annual All-Star. Obviously, if I didn't, I'd advocate his trade as much as anyone.


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## realbullsfaninLA (Jan 8, 2003)

6th man of the year candidates don't grow on trees.You need a bench player who comes in and can be counted on.Marshall is a nice player,but he is not as effective a post player as Fizer is.Marshall can hit a 3 for you,and that is very valuable.But I'd rather have Fizer than Marshall if I had to choose.


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## RealFan (Jun 12, 2002)

If all of these trades had Marshall in Fizer's place, I'd have no problem with them. And I like Marshall.


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## chifaninca (May 28, 2002)

While some of us may overvalue Fizer, we are in the positiion of strength here. Jerry wants the pick to grab #7 and presumably Pietrus. I, for one, think that should be and has been a signal to Paxson that Pietrus may be special. It is interesting that Paxson has decided to go to Europe now to see him play. Unfortunately, I don't think you can base your judgement on one game. I am hoping they get a chance to work him out.

As for Battier, I have come around to the idea of having him. However, he is an "extra part" in Memphis, the same way Fizer is an "extra part" in Chicago. Why are we giving up the more valuable pick? Fizer doesn't really fill a need for Memphis, Battier fills one for us. OK, but is that fact worth giving up the chance at someone who may be truly spectacular?

I have only based my judgements on comments (Hype) that has been increasing lately. I've read the stories and just think that if he lives up to only half the hype he would be a valuable contributor for years. 

Also, if we trade down it has to be to end up with Diaw, Hayes or Wade if he fell that far(unlikely). Then, in two years we are searching for a SG to replace Rose. 


My decision today, if I were the GM:

Stay at #7 draft Pietrus, pick up SF with the MLE. If we can, explore trading for Battier or other SF who is providing "depth" on another team. NExt year when we are drafting in the 12-20 range make the trade for a final piece if still needed. 

If I watched the tapes and my scouts were convinced that Diaw is the better talent and as good a prospect - my trade offer to the Logo is take it or leave it: #7, Fizer, E-Rob for #13, Battier, Person. With the #13 I take Diaw.


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## realbullsfaninLA (Jan 8, 2003)

If West REALLY wants Pietrius for himself,wouldn't it be in his best interest to have the Bulls draft him,and THEN make that trade?When The Bulls made the Chandler for Brand deal,it was dependent upon the Clippers actually taking Chandler,so the Bulls would end up with he and Curry.Otherwise,the Bulls could have just traded Brand for the #2 pick before it was made.

West may want the #7 pick,but who's to say that Pietrius is who he really wants.

Every year come draft time,players are overhyped.(Rodney White was supposed to be the number 1 draft pick for MJ)Every year,teams put up smokescreens and "leak" misinformation to bluff other teams.


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## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

For those who want Fizer kept and Marshall traded you have to think financially. Fizer will cost more than Marshall makes. Marshall also can be played on court at same time with either Chandler or Curry whereas Fizer and Curry together makes no sense. This trade saves us money( even more if Erob and Person are added in).


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>basghetti80</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Uhg!

Fizer with a torn ACL that he is not yet healed from may well be worth less than Battier.

His injury has to be taken into account.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

When healthy Fizer is a pretty dynamic post player. It seems like he is developing a Curry-like ability to score at will on post defendders. It is tough to replace that. Still, Marcus isn't a great defender or rebounder, although he has improved. And I have heard that his work ethic is not the best. Bearing all of this in mind, I still think that us trading Fizer and the #7 for Battier and the #13 is an overpayment. If there was some way we could land Person & Battier and not give up too much more then it might be a good deal. All of this, of course, supposses Fizer will make a full recovery from his ACL injuy, which by all accounts he is doing.


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## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

There was a great thread a while back on overpaying in a trade. Sometimes you overpay to get the right players for your team. This is one of those situations IMO. As for adding Person I am perfectly fine with a Fizer,ERob,#7 for Battier,Person,#13.


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## TRUTHHURTS (Mar 1, 2003)

I agree with basghetti80 sometimes you do have to overpay.I think some are way off about Fizer.Both he and Curry cannot co-exists while both Chandler and Marshall are here.

Fizers minutes were a direct result of Curry playing 20mpg or less

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3403

Check the box scores of Fizers last 5-6 games and you will see fizer playing over20mpg meant Curry playing less because he and Chandler were sharing the center spot.Now that Chandlers back at pf where does Fizer get minutes ?Do we trade our leading rebounder in Marshall so Fizer can get us the 10-20 pts off the bench the same points Marshall can give us + defense and rebounding? You just cant keep all 4 play chandler and Curry 30+mpg,add a backup center and still expect Fizer AND marshall to get there minutes and Fizer is still recovering from a acl 
 .


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## Kneepad (Jun 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>basghetti80</b>!
> There was a great thread a while back on overpaying in a trade. Sometimes you overpay to get the right players for your team. This is one of those situations IMO. As for adding Person I am perfectly fine with a Fizer,ERob,#7 for Battier,Person,#13.


This is _not_ one of those situations. What makes you say that it is? Is Shane Battier suddenly going to lead the Bulls to an NBA championship?


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## RetroDreams (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>basghetti80</b>!
> There was a great thread a while back on overpaying in a trade. Sometimes you overpay to get the right players for your team. This is one of those situations IMO. As for adding Person I am perfectly fine with a Fizer,ERob,#7 for Battier,Person,#13.


Person is the kicker because his contract will be up soon and we'd be removing Eddie's contract. We'd be able to sign one last player before we had to start handing out extensions.


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## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

> This is not one of those situations. What makes you say that it is? Is Shane Battier suddenly going to lead the Bulls to an NBA championship?




No he wont but for that matter neither will Fizer or even Mickael Pietrus. If we are going to win a title down the road it will be Chandler,Crawford and Curry anyways. The key is to surround them with talent that helps them the most and in my opinion Battier would help an awful lot more than Fizer would.


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## Kneepad (Jun 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>basghetti80</b>!
> No he wont but for that matter neither will Fizer or even Mickael Pietrus. If we are going to win a title down the road it will be Chandler,Crawford and Curry anyways. The key is to surround them with talent that helps them the most and in my opinion Battier would help an awful lot more than Fizer would.


I agree.

But that's not reason to overpay for him, IMO.

You overpay when you are certain that the player to be acquired is the one piece to put a team over the top.


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## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

Ok then I'll bite, what one player can be added to what we have to put us over the top?(without mentioning Kobe,Tmac,etc.)


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## Electric Slim (Jul 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Vin Diesel</b>!
> Battier brings more to this team than just defense at the wing position.
> 
> He's probably one of the brightest, mature, young players in the L. Adding him helps Jay, helps the twin towers, and helps the chemistry of the team. Do you think Shane would ever pout (Jay), walk out of practice (Trent) yell at an assistant coach (Donyell), or be in the coaches doghouse? No. And no.
> ...


This is why I don't post much anymore, you do the work for me! :yes:


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## Kneepad (Jun 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>basghetti80</b>!
> Ok then I'll bite, what one player can be added to what we have to put us over the top?(without mentioning Kobe,Tmac,etc.)


I don't think there is one.

The Bulls as an organization, and we as fans, suffered through 5 long losing seasons to be able to acquire the talent we have. It's very easy at this juncture to become impatient-- to borrow a phrase from a since-departed Chicago coach, that "all the pieces are in place", or would be in place if we were just able to acquire that one missing player.

In fact, the Bulls are still a very, very young team, and still very much a work in progress. The young talent we have is our primary asset. I just don't think now is the time to be overpaying for role players we may perceive to be "the final piece".

If Memphis will accept fair value for Shane Battier, then I'm all for acquiring him. I think he would be a great fit on the Bulls. But if not, then I think we should move on to someone else.


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## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

At some point you have to stop stockpiling talent and starting stockpiling wins. I by no means think Battier is the final piece but he could be a very important piece. Even after this trade, Crawford and Williams situation needs to be resolved and dumpring Rose's contract at some point has to be done. At some point instead of just collecting high draft picks you have to begin a process to actually have winning games and making playoffs as your goal and make moves that will start heading you in that direction. This could be one of those type moves.


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## Lizzy (May 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>basghetti80</b>!
> At some point you have to stop stockpiling talent and starting stockpiling wins. I by no means think Battier is the final piece but he could be a very important piece. Even after this trade, Crawford and Williams situation needs to be resolved and dumpring Rose's contract at some point has to be done. At some point instead of just collecting high draft picks you have to begin a process to actually have winning games and making playoffs as your goal and make moves that will start heading you in that direction. This could be one of those type moves.


:yes:


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## Kneepad (Jun 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>basghetti80</b>!
> At some point you have to stop stockpiling talent and starting stockpiling wins. I by no means think Battier is the final piece but he could be a very important piece. Even after this trade, Crawford and Williams situation needs to be resolved and dumpring Rose's contract at some point has to be done. At some point instead of just collecting high draft picks you have to begin a process to actually have winning games and making playoffs as your goal and make moves that will start heading you in that direction. This could be one of those type moves.


Yeah, well, that's easy to say.

Then you go out and talk to 27 teams in the league who right this moment are trying to figure out some way to increase the talent level on their team.

Talent wins games.

I agree that at some point you stop acquiring talent. I just don't think that time is now for the Bulls. They are still a 30-win team. How can anyone say they have enough talent?

We've gotten so far off topic here, I've forgotten what you're proposing in trade for Battier? Again, I am in favor of trading Fizer for Battier. If Memphis wants anything more (OK, there's always _some_ wiggle room), then I walk.


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## TRUTHHURTS (Mar 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Kneepad</b>!
> 
> Yeah, well, that's easy to say.
> 
> ...


Yeah but when you have 5 talented pf's and NO talented sf's what is a team to do ?


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## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

Thank you I never once said we have enough talent. It is just we need to improve ourselves at SF with someone who is not a project, someone who can come in and do the job now. We are over abundant in PF so that seems like a logical position to use in a trade for a SF. By the way Kneepad the proposed trade is Fizer,#7 for Battier,#13 which I would do but would really like to add ERob on our side and Person on Memphis' side but that is just gravy. I am fine with either deal.


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## fl_flash (Aug 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>basghetti80</b>!
> Thank you I never once said we have enough talent. It is just we need to improve ourselves at SF with someone who is not a project, someone who can come in and do the job now. We are over abundant in PF so that seems like a logical position to use in a trade for a SF. By the way Kneepad the proposed trade is Fizer,#7 for Battier,#13 which I would do but would really like to add ERob on our side and Person on Memphis' side but that is just gravy. I am fine with either deal.


Assuming that Fizer for Battier is pretty much an even swap, why would you also swap 7 for 13? If this proposed trade is as much Jerry West wanting to move up to #7 to nab Pietrus, shouldn't the Grizzlies be the ones to pay a premium to move up?

I'd do Fizer for Battier straight-up without thinking twice - and I really like Fizer, but I wouldn't do 7 for 13 without getting something more back.

I certainly hope Pax doesn't settle for a trade like this simply because he feels the need to make a deal. If there is nothing better on the table, Jerry West can just stay at #13, We'll pick at #7 and move on from there...


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## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

Fizers value is low because of the injury hence Fizer for Battier not being enough. I would try to get them to take Erob and we get an expiring contract in Person they should be willing to do that if he wants Pietrus bad enough.


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## Zeus (Jul 1, 2002)

of course all of you Bulls fans say, "i'd take that trade in a heartbeat!" and, "make it happen!" because it benefits Chicago. those trade scenarios don't do a damn thing for Memphis. your sports columnists have been trying to trade for Battier constantly since he was a rookie. if we traded Battier for Fizer, Jerry West would be the second coming of Stu Jackson. keep dreaming, Chicago fans.


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## Kneepad (Jun 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Zeus</b>!
> of course all of you Bulls fans say, "i'd take that trade in a heartbeat!" and, "make it happen!" because it benefits Chicago. those trade scenarios don't do a damn thing for Memphis. your sports columnists have been trying to trade for Battier constantly since he was a rookie. if we traded Battier for Fizer, Jerry West would be the second coming of Stu Jackson.


I have to agree... Fizer for Battier straight up doesn't make much sense for Memphis. But Bulls fans naturally want what's best for the Bulls.

Where do you stand on Fizer + #7 for Battier + #13?


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## Zeus (Jul 1, 2002)

i think it's a ridiculous proposition. for one, there isn't that much difference between the #7 and #13 picks. also, i don't think Fizer makes the Grizzlies better. we already have a logjam at the 4, and having watched Fizer throughout his college career, what you see is pretty much what you get - this is it; he's not going to get better. if the Grizzlies trade to move up in the draft, it's not going to be for the #7 pick.

also, since the scenario or proposition originated with a certain sports columnist who has often written of trades for Battier over the past year and a half, this is no surprise that he's done it again. it's also no surprise that he keeps including players that he'd like to get rid of. it's simply one man's wishful thinking; this rumor has no legs at all.


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## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

> i think it's a ridiculous proposition. for one, there isn't that much difference between the #7 and #13 picks. also, i don't think Fizer makes the Grizzlies better. we already have a logjam at the 4, and having watched Fizer throughout his college career, what you see is pretty much what you get - this is it; he's not going to get better. if the Grizzlies trade to move up in the draft, it's not going to be for the #7 pick.





Thank you Mr Jerry West for clearing that one up. Since you said that it is not going to happen we should just quit talking about it.


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## Kneepad (Jun 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Zeus</b>!
> i think it's a ridiculous proposition. for one, there isn't that much difference between the #7 and #13 picks. also, i don't think Fizer makes the Grizzlies better. we already have a logjam at the 4, and having watched Fizer throughout his college career, what you see is pretty much what you get - this is it; he's not going to get better. if the Grizzlies trade to move up in the draft, it's not going to be for the #7 pick.


Once again, I have to agree with you. Historically there _isn't_ much difference between #7 and #13 (although every draft is different and last year it was the difference between Nene Hilario and Marcus Haislip.)

I'll conceed Fizer isn't likely to improve significantly. But the same could be said for Battier, no?

What's supposedly fueling this rumor, however, is not Memphis's desire to acquire Fizer, but rather the #7 pick which would likely enable Logo to grab Pietrus. Your saying that has absolutely no basis?


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## ChiBullsFan (May 30, 2002)

I think the Battier vs. Fizer argument is very cut and dry. It should be abundantly clear why Battier should have a significantly higher value to the Bulls.

While both may offer a similar production value, they have MUCH different TEAM value. Battier makes his teammates better, and makes his team better. He provides stability and leadership and basketball acumen. Fizer does nothing to raise the level of play of his teammates. He often takes the team out of synch and does not mesh well with the starters. Is he a good 6th man? Insomuch as he can provide a quick scoring punch, yes. Is he a vital piece of this team's growth? No. Battier, on the other hand, would be.

Battier would bring several other positives to the table, including his shooting and defense. He would also give us tons of flexibility because he can guard the 2, 3 and sometimes 4 (especially in the East). He can start or come off the bench with equal effectiveness. He would also probably allow us to use our Jay/Jamal backcourt more often because of his defensive presence.

If the trade of Battier + #13 for Fizer + #7 were executed, we could draft someone to fill the bench scoring void left by Fizer. Wade would really be an ideal draft pick under this scenario.


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## BullspgJayWill#22 (Jan 3, 2003)

*Why DO The Bulls Want Battier????*

Why??? HE is 6ft 8 and only scores 9.4 ppg. Now Jalen is the exact same height and scores way more. Now Jalen is the worst defender I have seen, and Shane is a heck of alot better, but giving up our 7th pick and Marcus Fizer for Shane and the 13th pick. No Way. I would love to have a 6ft 6 Michael Pietrus and have Jalen at SF.

Now I do not want Shane if we have to give up Pietrus(he will be a star that we need) Jalen can play SF any day.

The only way I would do the trade is if we trade Marcus, 7th pick, and one second rounder for Shane Battier, 13th pick, and Wes Person. I would do the deal after we pick Pietrus, and Memphis picks Boris Daiw that is the only way. But I do not want to give up Pietrus( this guy is for real).

If we do make this trade then we will not be able to sign Pippen. I would rather have Pippen than Battier.


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## Chicago_Cow (Mar 5, 2003)

> I would rather have Pippen than Battier.


What the hell is wrong with this comment?


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## chifaninca (May 28, 2002)

Here's the way I do this trade:


#7 - Pick Pietrus
#13 - Pick Diaw

Bulls trade Pietrus, Fizer, Robinson to Memphis for Diaw, Battier, Person.

I'm not happy about trading Fizer or Pietrus, but we do need to move forward as a team. I do belive we can do this with Pietrus also, but Diaw, Battier and the consistent shooting of Person (and his expiring contract) should be a huge step forward. Also, getting rid of E-Robbery's contract will help.

Someone mentioned this would give us cap room. If so, don't we lose the ability to sign a MLE or was the cap room after renouncing our rights to Person next off season?


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## Zeos (Jun 4, 2003)

> And the 6-8 Fizer, who played at 268 last season, said he weighs a respectable 279.


Yikes! 

Marcus has had trouble with his weight his entire career. This is a big concern.

If he ever got his weight down to, say, 250 (I have no idea what the Bulls would like him to be), he could defend some at the 3, and he would have a lot more quickness with that power.


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## Kneepad (Jun 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>chifaninca</b>!
> Here's the way I do this trade:
> 
> #7 - Pick Pietrus
> ...


Let's remember we're dealing with Jerry West here, not Scott Layden. Unless Logo has a _major_ chubby for Pietrus, I just can't see Memphis taking ERob off our hands for this.


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## giusd (Apr 17, 2003)

I just don't see what position Battier plays for the bulls. He does not have the foot speed to play sg and the bulls already have rose, robinson, and marshall who can play sf. I still don't see why the bulls need battier. The bulls should keep fizer and draft the best player at 7.

2nd, in terms of stat's there appears to be no real difference between fizer and battier, neither is a starter. Battier makes the player on the floor play better, if that was true he would be starting? What we would really be trading is the 7th for the 13 and gettting nothing in return. I don't know what kind of player pietrus is but if west has such a woodie for him maybe we should take a lont look.

david


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## Zeus (Jul 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>basghetti80</b>!
> 
> Thank you Mr Jerry West for clearing that one up. Since you said that it is not going to happen we should just quit talking about it.


and just because a columnist wrote about his christmas wish list doesn't mean it's going to happen.


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## Zeus (Jul 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>chifaninca</b>!
> Here's the way I do this trade:
> 
> #7 - Pick Pietrus
> ...


i don't think that happens either - the Person factor, that is. as of right now, Person is our only 2 guard. our other 2 guard - Michael Dickerson - has only played 6 games - maybe 10 - over the past two seasons. i don't see us trading our only stable and healthy 2 guard, and drafting a rookie to replace him. we're already one of the youngest teams in the league. since his arrival in Memphis, Jerry has constantly said that the team needs more talent, a superstar, and veteran play. drafting a rookie outside of the #3 or #4 pick does not address those issues. this is one reason why i believe that we will be packaging both picks for a trade, but not necessarily a trade for a draft pick.


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## Zeus (Jul 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Kneepad</b>!
> 
> 
> What's supposedly fueling this rumor, however, is not Memphis's desire to acquire Fizer, but rather the #7 pick ...


i think what's feuling this rumor is Smith's desire to see Battier in a Bulls uniform. everything else has been speculation about a hypothesis (ie, why the Grizzlies would do it).


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## RealFan (Jun 12, 2002)

I think most of you guys overvalue Battier just the way most of the pro Fizer camp (like me) overvalue Marcus.

Contrary to everyone's beliefs, Marcus WAS improving steadily up through his injury. I don't care about minutes played or all that - he was on the floor at the end of the game and was playing well.

He WAS rebounding. He WAS passing out of double teams. He WAS making the team better. 

I don't see Battier as the answer at the three and I don't like giving up six slots in the draft either. 

I guess it all comes down to how Pax views Marcus. If he sides with most of you, I agree that Fizer is as good as gone. However, if Pax thinks Marcus fits the Bulls, he will probably extend his contract.

I don't think that any GM would trade for Marcus right now, however, given the ACL injury. I'd think that this trade would have to be done after Marcus demonstrates that he's back.


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## ChiBullsFan (May 30, 2002)

> I just don't see what position Battier plays for the bulls. He does not have the foot speed to play sg and the bulls already have rose, robinson, and marshall who can play sf. I still don't see why the bulls need battier. The bulls should keep fizer and draft the best player at 7.


By your same logic, where does Fizer fit in? We already have Tyson, Donyell and Baxter playing the 4. Is it not clear to you that the SF position is our greatest need? Battier could play some minutes at the 2 and 4 as well, but he clearly plays over ERob and Marshall at the 3.




> Why??? HE is 6ft 8 and only scores 9.4 ppg. Now Jalen is the exact same height and scores way more. Now Jalen is the worst defender I have seen, and Shane is a heck of alot better, but giving up our 7th pick and Marcus Fizer for Shane and the 13th pick. No Way. I would love to have a 6ft 6 Michael Pietrus and have Jalen at SF.


Only scores 9.4 ppg? I think you are severely overlooking why we need a guy like Battier. Hey, he scored almost 15 ppg as a rookie, so I don't worry about his scoring capability. And his defense is among the best in the league. We don't know a thing about Pietrus except for his hype, and to be honest I'm not so sure he even slips to #7, so if Pax can pull a deal to get Battier without giving up anything important, I do it in a heartbeat.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Zeus</b>!
> 
> 
> i think what's feuling this rumor is Smith's desire to see Battier in a Bulls uniform. everything else has been speculation about a hypothesis (ie, why the Grizzlies would do it).


Actually, no.

Chad Ford from ESPN confirms this:

"The Grizzlies are trying to move up in the draft to get their hands on French two guard Mickael Pietrus, a league source told Insider on Wednesday. They feel he'll be off the board when they pick at No. 13. Chicago has been looking hard at Pietrus, and the Grizzlies know they either have to trade with the Bulls or get ahead of them to have a chance. What might get it done? How about Shane Battier, Ryan Humphrey and the No. 13 pick for Marcus Fizer and the No. 7."

He's proposing the deal here, but he confirms the Griz are the ones initiating the move. 

Please stop saying this is purely a Sam Smith/Chicago initiated rumor, because it's confirmed by a national draft guru.


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## DaFuture (Nov 5, 2002)

*West has been trying to get rid*

of Battier for the longest. He does nothing for me really. His three point shooting is a plus. Leads the league in charging but Fizer is a much more talented scorer than he is. I think we can get him for cheap. The grizzlies want to get rid of him, let them lower the asking price. They are the desperate not us.


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## Zeus (Jul 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>DMD</b>!
> 
> 
> Actually, no.
> ...


that's usually how rumors propogate. for example, the other day there was a baseless rumor reported on local radio and fueled by the internet; it wound up making the 5 o'clock news as fact. Sam Smith started it, Ford picked it up. i guess you believe everything you read in the New York Times as well


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## Zeus (Jul 1, 2002)

*Re: West has been trying to get rid*



> Originally posted by <b>DaFuture</b>!
> of Battier for the longest. He does nothing for me really. His three point shooting is a plus. Leads the league in charging but Fizer is a much more talented scorer than he is. I think we can get him for cheap. The grizzlies want to get rid of him, let them lower the asking price. They are the desperate not us.


LMAO! pure gold. the only player the Grizzlies have consistently tried to get rid of is Stromile Swift. The Grizzlies have never offered Shane in a proposed trade, and I'd hardly call them desparate.


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## DaFuture (Nov 5, 2002)

So because you have only heard about them offering swift they have never offered shane in a trade? Do I understand that quite right.



BTW Westhas never been very high on Shane go back and look at some of the articles when he took over. Not very coplimentary.


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## laso (Jul 24, 2002)

Battier for me works. I see him as a Ron Artest type of role player, but a role player who knows his role. Defensively, he will do the job. He probably will not lock down on the opponent's best wing player but he's a tremendous team defender and will rebound well. Offensively, he will not try to do too much, will keep the ball moving and probably knock down big shots.

If we can do E-Rob and #7, for Battier and 13, I say go for it, without a doubt. (Probably doesn't work cap wise though).

If we have to do Fizer and #7, I would still consider it. We have players to replace Fizer in Marshall and Baxter. Lonny did very well IMO for his rookie season. He can come up and fill in for either Chandler and Curry, will rebound well and has a bit of a post up game. Not as many moves & not as good an outside shot as Fizer, but better defensively.

I guess it all comes down to Pietrus. If the Bulls staff determines that he will become a great player, than stay put, draft him and be happy. However, I tend to prefer Diaw, from the little I know. If we can add Battier and Diaw to our roster, I think we would have decent depth at all positions.

Jamal/Jay
Jalen/Trenton and Mason (don't give up on Mason yet)
Battier/E-Rob/Diaw
Chandler/Marshall/Baxter
Curry (we probably woul need a true backup center to complete the roster).


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## TRUTHHURTS (Mar 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Zeus</b>!
> 
> 
> that's usually how rumors propogate. for example, the other day there was a baseless rumor reported on local radio and fueled by the internet; it wound up making the 5 o'clock news as fact. Sam Smith started it, Ford picked it up. i guess you believe everything you read in the New York Times as well



If youve read sam smith for any length of time you would know that there is a clear distinction between what he thinks the bulls should do  and what he has heard from his sources  

for example : 

on june 1st 
sam smith anthony could be a bull 



> So here's what the Bulls do: They offer their No. 7 overall pick, point guard Jay Williams and forward Marcus Fizer, assuming he passes a physical, to the Nuggets for Marcus Camby and the No. 3 pick. The Nuggets would have to think seriously about that one.



and then there is what he has heard through his sources 

june 5th 



> Paxson is hanging onto his point guards for now, but one rumor making the rounds has the Bulls in talks with the Memphis Grizzlies.
> 
> The Grizzlies are said to be interested in French swingman Mickael Pietrus and are looking to move up in the draft. In the preliminary discussions, the Bulls have expressed interest in shooting guard Wes Person, who was third in three-point shooting last season.
> 
> One proposed deal would get the Grizzlies Marcus Fizer or Eddie Robinson, another player and the No. 7 pick for Person and No. 13.


and while you may not like the deal it is rumored that West wants pietrus so its possible he deals with us the deals posted here are just the ones that are more likely to happen if a trade were to take place .


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## MichaelOFAZ (Jul 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>basghetti80</b>!
> http://www.suntimes.com/output/bulls/cst-spt-camp06.html
> 
> 
> ...


This is another bogus hypothesis that has no factual basis whatsoever. If Pax wants Battier as this article suggests, he surely not going to give up #4 pick with experience and this year's #7 pick for someone like Battier (a #6 pick). The Bulls may be attracted to Battier, but there not giving up that much to get him. Personally, I think adding Battier would do more harm than good. The alliance of Battier and JWill would ruin the chemistry of the team and pit the Dukies against the Wolverines (Jalen & JC). JC, Jalen, and Curry have a great thing going now, Battier would only complicate things. If Battier comes to the Bulls, JWill has to go.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

I didn't see enough of Battier last year to make the same kind of assessment I can make of Fizer.

Fizer has pretty much demonstrated the kind of year-over-year progress I want to see in young players. 9.5PPG -> 12.3 PPG -> 11.7 PPG. The last season is statistically disappointing, but looking at his game-by-game stats, he was the forgotten man for the early part of the season and his stats suffered for it. He did score .6PPG less last year than the year before, but in 4.5 MPG less. His shooting and rebounding were improved in spite of the fewer minutes.

Fizer put up games like 20 Pts/17 Reb, 28 Pts/7 Reb, etc. He scored double figugres in 23 of his last 28 games, when he saw regular playing time. He played big in 4th quarters, and he did play with various combinations of the other Bulls PF/SF/C types.

Battier has a lot of interesting properties that I do think would make him a good fit on the team. However, there are some negatives to consider. He got less playing time than Fizer, and he played on a team that won fewer games than the Bulls. If he's that much a contributor to a team, you'd think he'd have gotten the big minutes. If he does have the scoring prowess he demonstrated as a rookie (14PPG), you'd think he'd have more opportunity on a 28 win team. 

Battier scored 20 points just three times all season. Fizer scored 20 points four times, and his season was shortened (36 games) by injury.

I would not discount Fizer as a SF candidate. When Krause drafted him, we had Brand, so Fizer was told he'd be our SF. He worked hard at becoming a SF. He's undersized, somewhat, as a PF, though I don't think that really matters much; Barkley was not tall, nor was Rodman. What was encouraging to me about Fizer at SF was one of our posters went to a game and reported that in pre-game warmups, Fizer demonstrated a very solid outside shot (though it didn't show up in games). I think he will show his SF skills more and more as his career progresses.

What Battier brings this team is more of a lineup versatility than we currently have. Something closer to the championship teams. Those teams had 4 players at 6'7" and they could mix and match up with opponents in interesting ways. This team has players with far less versatility. We're kinda stuck with this lack of versatility with players like Curry (will only be a C) and JWill (at 6'1", he's pretty much only a PG).

I discount the end of last season as an indication of what we can expect from our players. I expect that Curry/Chandler will still have foul trouble issues, that ERob will suffer from minor injuries, etc. 

Without Battier, our SF position will be manned by some rotation of the following:
<DD>Fizer, Rose, Marshall, ERob, Hassell, Pietrus (or other pick). 
I don't think the situation is _that_ dire.

The key question, as I see it, is how good will Pietrus be? If he can put up 9PPG and 4.5RPG, we'd be better off with Pietrus than Battier. Pietrus could surprise everyone and really be the next Jordan (28PPG as a rookie). On the other hand, we have a very good idea of what Battier can do, and Pietrus may not ever turn into a good NBA player.

CBA-wise, a rookie would be better for us than a guy who's 2 years closer to getting big salary dollars.

I would LOVE to see us get Battier, but I'm not so sure I would trade our #7 to get him.

If we did Fizer + ERob + #7 for Person and Battier, we will be in the same situation that Detroit has been for two years. 

The pressure to play a lineup of Rose, Person, Curry, Chandler, Battier would be very strong. It's the best rotation if we want to win now. If we do win now, we probably don't win the championship and we get less chance of help in future drafts. If we play a lineup of Crawford, Rose, Battier, Curry, Chandler, then where does Person fit in? He's going to get a lot of JWill's minutes. Or it's a waste to even trade for Person in the first place.

I happen to like Person a lot. But he needs 29MPG to score 11PPG. His main asset is his outside scoring ability, something we can surely use. However, Rose at 39MPG scores DOUBLE the points. If we had to choose between the two, it'd be Rose. If we could have BOTH on the court at the same time, we'd be a better team in the short run, no doubt. But after seeing all the complaints about lack of PT for the young guys last season, that situation would only be perpetuated.

$.02


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## RealFan (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ChiBullsFan</b>!
> 
> 
> By your same logic, where does Fizer fit in? We already have Tyson, Donyell and Baxter playing the 4. Is it not clear to you that the SF position is our greatest need? Battier could play some minutes at the 2 and 4 as well, but he clearly plays over ERob and Marshall at the 3.
> ...



ChiBullsFan,

I hear you, I really do. I think to answer your question I'd propose that we trade Marshall instead of Fizer. I'd rather keep the player with the better upside, as much as I like what Marshall brings to the table.

I do see the three as a need on the Bulls and I want them to address it without getting rid of Fizer.


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## giusd (Apr 17, 2003)

I think a better wayt to look at the bulls lineup is not by position but by how they play. The bulls have only two big men. Chandler at 7'1" and curry at 6'11". Now fizer plays PF forward but he is undersized at that postion and can not defend centers and Marshall can play pf but played sf most of his career. Baxter is 6'7". So in truth the bulls are short of big me. If we trade away fizer we have one true center and one true pf. (sorry blount suc-ks). We would have to use are MLE for a backup big man. If we get Battier we have rose, robinson, marshall, and Battier who play sf. That does not make sense to me.

dvid


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Zeus</b>!
> 
> 
> that's usually how rumors propogate. for example, the other day there was a baseless rumor reported on local radio and fueled by the internet; it wound up making the 5 o'clock news as fact. Sam Smith started it, Ford picked it up. i guess you believe everything you read in the New York Times as well


This defense is pretty weak, really. Chad Ford has prowling around the Chicago camp talking to GM's, assistant GM's, and scouts all week. You're suggesting he picks up some uncofirmed rumor from a hack wanna-be GM newspaper man? Sounds like denial to me, but of course anything is possible. 

Tell me, why is it so unlikely that Jerry West has his eye on Pietrus (who I am very encouraged about just straight up drafting, by the way) and would be willing to trade up to get him? What is so unrealistic about that?


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## blizzaw665 (May 23, 2003)

People are obviously confused. Since everyone claims that Battier=Fizer, if that, why are we trading down in the draft? I think the reasoning is that if we trade Fizer, Robinson, and #7 to Memphis for Battier, Person, and #13, that would give up Robinson's long term and overpaid contract to Memphis for a 3 point shooter. If we traded ERob and #7 to Memphis, Person and #13, is what we should get in return. If we add Fizer to the mix, we should get Battier. This would work extremely well for Chi


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>blizzaw665</b>!
> People are obviously confused. Since everyone claims that Battier=Fizer, if that, why are we trading down in the draft? I think the reasoning is that if we trade Fizer, Robinson, and #7 to Memphis for Battier, Person, and #13, that would give up Robinson's long term and overpaid contract to Memphis for a 3 point shooter. If we traded ERob and #7 to Memphis, Person and #13, is what we should get in return. If we add Fizer to the mix, we should get Battier. This would work extremely well for Chi


No, not everyone agrees that Battier=Fizer. I'd rather have Battier right now.

Also, please keep in mind that Marcus is coming off a torn ACL.


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## LoyalBull (Jun 12, 2002)

I say we do the Fizer- Battier deal (while keeping the #7) pick.

If not don't freaking make the deal.

Jerry West is in no power position!

Bottom line, I would draft the Siberian Giant at 7 and (at times) Play him along side Curry (who would become the 4) and be able to shuffle 3 legit big men (Pavel, Curry and Chandler) in and out of the 4-5 spot. Marshall will be able to pick up the other min. and contribute at small forward as well!


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## life_after_23 (Jul 24, 2002)

*Yikes....*

Draft Pavel...no way
This is a very raw project...no need for another raw talent on the Bulls.

What the Bulls need is not a 3 pt shooter or scorer. The Bulls need a physical lockdown defender in the perimeter who is a threat on offense (in someway shape or form). 

If we assume that TC is going to gain back his weight and may be even increase it to the 240s..he might be able to hang with the PFs in the East and many PFs in the West. So thats two lock down defenders for the Bulls. 

Then it all becomes how good can the Bulls play help defense and rotate early, etc. EC was horrible at this last year....

What we don't need is any more players who lack fundamentals of basketball and don't understand hosw to play defense.

<B>If Pietrius can D up in the wing and can play help defense while being a threat on the offensive side (as a slasher/passer), it will make sense to draft him....or else go get help...even Jumaine Jones is better that what we got.</B>

For Fizer lovers, he gets tough baskets in the post but is a lazy defender and does not make good decisons...period. He might be a scorer but.....makes one too many mental errors. If the Bulls can give him up and get something valuable in return, they can use EC in the post for scoring and not really worry about needing Fizer off the bench to do that.


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## Benny the Bull (Jul 25, 2002)

If we want a 3pt shooter and don't want to have to give up the 7th pick, why don't we just sign Jon Barry or Eric Piatkowski?


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## Bluenote (Jun 8, 2003)

Shane Battier is a fine player and a hard-worker, but the Grizzlies have no reason to make this trade. By trading Battier and #13 for Fizer and presumably Pietrus, Memphis would have an overwhelming logjam at 4, and not enough depth at 2/3. Factor in ERob and Person, and the deal becomes a diasaster.

PG-Jason Williams, Earl Watson, Brevin Knight
SG-Michael Dickerson*, Mickael Pietrus
SF-Mike Miller*, Eddie Robinson, Ryan Humphrey, Chris Owens
PF-Pau Gasol, Marcus Fizer*, Stromile Swift, Mike Batiste
C-Lorenzon Wright*, Robert Archibald, Cezary Trybanski
*-injured

If Battier is gone, Pau, Stro, and Pietrus become the only adequate defenders. I doubt Pietrus would be able to defend the swingmen in the west and Stro would be down to third string at his natural position. The Grizz can put up points, but it won't do them any good if they're losing by 10+ every night.


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## rowdystylz (May 20, 2003)

http://www.gomemphis.com/mca/basketball/article/0,1426,MCA_466_2020605,00.html

Thanks for sharing the article, but do to copyright laws we do not allow full articles to be posted here. We do allow the link, quotes and your thoughts on the article to be posted. 
truebluefan


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## Benny the Bull (Jul 25, 2002)

I don't know how many GM's came out and say they are going to be trading players in the offseason. Of course West is going to say he isn't going to trade Battier.


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## Kneepad (Jun 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Benny the Bull</b>!
> I don't know how many GM's came out and say they are going to be trading players in the offseason. Of course West is going to say he isn't going to trade Battier.


Exactly. West also said he believed he got the best player in last years draft in Drew Gooden-- and then promptly shipped him off to Orlando for Mike Miller.

That said, I still don't think Logo does a Fizer for Battier trade.


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## Zeus (Jul 1, 2002)

*Hey, DMD*

i hope you paid close attention to the above article.

and Kneepad, Jerry said before last year's draft that he would take the best talent available with the 4 pick, and he did (in his mind). just because he shipped Gooden off doesn't mean anything; West never said he was going to select the best pick for the TEAM. i've been paying attention to everything that Jerry has said since he arrived in Memphis, and not once - not a single time - has he said one thing and done the opposite. Battier is staying, and West isn't playing the P.R. game here.


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