# Rumour: Ford, Rasho > JO



## ballocks (May 15, 2003)

http://www.tsn.ca/nba/story/?id=241460&lid=sublink01&lpos=headlines_main

"The Toronto Raptors attempts to deal disgruntled point guard T.J. Ford has gone from Phoenix to Indiana.

According to a report in the Indianapolis Star, the Raptors and Indiana Pacers have discussed a deal that would send power forward/centre Jermaine O'Neal to Toronto in exchange for Ford, centre Rasho Nesterovic and one other player to make the deal work under the NBA's salary cap."


----------



## a_i_4_life (Dec 24, 2004)

this would be good, hopefully o'neal can stay healthy


----------



## WeMiss Charles Oakley (Apr 18, 2008)

ONLY work if he is knee is 100%.

Otherwise, two years and $45mm left on his contract. That is a tough one. 

If he is healthy, he is a 20/10 guy and plays defense.

I think TJ will grow to be an excellent PG in this league.


----------



## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

I'd pull the trigger on that deal if O'neal healthy but who the other person joey?. Also I wouldn't worry about O'neal contract with 2 years remaining if he gets hurt we would only have to suck it up for 1 season then next year hes trade bait


----------



## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

I thought his contract was longer than that.

That is a pretty low-risk move then. If it works great, if not we are not hamstrung with a bad contract for long.

Will take a bit of creativity to use Bosh and JO together so they don't get in each other's way but I have been calling for the Raps to run more of a mirror, 2 sided system with Bosh and Bargs so when you swing the ball you have the 3 point threat but also the mid-low post guy on both sides.

I like the move. He and Bosh will both see numbers go down a bit. Probably 18 and 8 for each?


----------



## billfindlay10 (Jan 24, 2003)

A healthy O'Neal would bring upgraded shot blocking and rebounding to the front court. This would mean a shift to the bench for Bargs, maybe a role he could embrace for a year, then we look to move O'Neal's huge expiring contract in his second year with the team.


----------



## southeasy (Jun 11, 2003)

http://www.basketballforum.com/nba-forum/404823-jermaine-oneal-tj-ford-rasho.html

my opinions from the general NBA



southeasy said:


> WTF?
> 
> hell no. then Indianas pick better be involved. Jermaine O'Neal coming off the injury wasnt the same. Rasho played his best basketball ever, scoring 20 in like what? the final 15 games for us. Not to mention Ford, he atleast showed he can still play @ a high level after his injury(and the time off actually greatly improved his J)
> 
> i wouldnt mind bringing Jermaine in to pair with Bosh, but **** no it won't be for Ford, Rasho, another player (Graham, Hump?) & the 17th.. **** aint happening.





southeasy said:


> yeah.. If he's healthy, and he was terrible after that injury.
> 
> adding the 17th just makes that deal out of reach IMO, were going for a big man with that pick.
> 
> ...


the third player would have to be Graham Or Humphries, and in the link above they also say *the 17th will be involved*, that broke this deal for me

maybe i'm just being negative... but Nah


----------



## changv10 (Apr 25, 2005)

this is a kg-like move for the raps. JO, former all-star whose numbers were down last season due to injuries ... is a veteran, but not really that old at 30. Lots of experience, lots of playoff experience. Regardless, he is still a big man with skill. He will get respected on foul calls, will know what to do. Defense and offense would improve with this move. 

i can see it work for the pacers as tinsley is getting old, JO is getting out of flavor and they are promoting Granger. TJ would start for them. 

I think the 'other raptor' would likely be Maceo Baston ... who played for Indiana the season before anyways. If it is Joey, we may ask for their 2nd rounder in return. 

This is promising. It is sad to see TJ go ... lots of heart on that guy after such crazy injuries. But it is time to let Calderon lose and let him shine as a full time starter. 

ps - this is 10x better than the stupid Boris Diaw rumor.


----------



## WeMiss Charles Oakley (Apr 18, 2008)

And it looks like the #17 pick, in included, would be another big man: Raptors #17 Pick http://www.mynbadraft.com/2008-NBA-Mock-Draft


----------



## Ruff Draft (Nov 21, 2004)

Toronto needs a center, not a broken power forward.


----------



## WeMiss Charles Oakley (Apr 18, 2008)

Yeah, i dont know why they would think that Diaw is the answer. I like him in some line-ups, but not with the Raptors the way they are currently constructed. They must be thinking that he can fit in the front court with Bosh and Bargnani at the same time, because he plays better at the C position (though only 6'8"), and Bargnani plays on the perimeter.

If he were paid about $2mm less per year, i think he might be worth the risk. 

But the Raptors #1 concern should be interior defense, and Diaw doesnt provide that.


----------



## WeMiss Charles Oakley (Apr 18, 2008)

Re: JO and Bosh on the Floor. 

It could work, O'Neal plays like a Center in the East. 

Imagine how many open shots this would give Kapono (if Sam plays him), Parker, Delfino and Calderon?


----------



## southeasy (Jun 11, 2003)

actually O'Neal plays like the elderly since the return from injury. but on that note, two lefty big men, IF and only if O'Neal is 100% healthy do we consider this damn deal. we aren;t giving up that pick and have no prospects this entire deep draft. just aint happening.


----------



## WeMiss Charles Oakley (Apr 18, 2008)

Bosh was just on sports radio, talking about how great it will be to have O'Neal beside him.


----------



## billfindlay10 (Jan 24, 2003)

southeasy said:


> actually O'Neal plays like the elderly since the return from injury. but on that note, *two lefty big men*, IF and only if O'Neal is 100% healthy do we consider this damn deal. we aren;t giving up that pick and have no prospects this entire deep draft. just aint happening.


O'Neal is not a lefty....he goes to a lefty hook, but he shoots right.


----------



## southeasy (Jun 11, 2003)

WTF!? i hope you mean how great it WOULD be.. funny to say that if he knows his goodfriend TJ is involved.


----------



## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

Decent deal. I haven't been a big fan of JO's game the last few years but he would make an impact defensively and doesn't really have to post up with our squad. O'neal has had plenty of time to rehab and wants to get winning again. Chris and Jermaine is a pretty damn good 4/5 combo with plenty of star power.

obviously there's no way we'd give up our pick and would probably want their second rounder or a future first for taking on JO's contract and giving up two expirings (does Joey expire after this season?) and TJ.

if we did get JO, i still might be inclined to take a big in this draft. we've got AP, Carlos, Kapono, and Moon. we're more likely to find minutes for a big and playable bigs will always have more value.


----------



## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

When you look at what LA gave up for Gasol, this seems steep to me.

I would like BC to split his assets. Use TJ on his own or just about, then use expiring deals on something else. JO would have to be the JO of 4 years ago for me to even consider this deal, but if he were why would the Pacers?

Stay away. This is not KG.


----------



## Balzac (Jun 29, 2006)

Do not look at the Gasol deal to determine market value. That trade is probably one of the most idiotic trades in recent memory. 

It really depends how healthy JO is. Remember, if this deal materializes we're trading one injury risk for another, except that JO has a much bigger contract and a lot more accomplishments (6-time AS). How he would fit on the team is another matter. For one, Bargnani would have to be relegated to the bench unless Sam wants to try the SF project again. Second, O'Neal is not really a centre. His game is quite similar to Bosh's, with a little bit more shot blocking. Third, it weakens our PG situation. And with no draft pick, we'll also have no backup unless Ukic comes over.


----------



## changv10 (Apr 25, 2005)

reading some of the comments from the pacer fans, JO is a model citizen. hard to picture that following the classic brawl, but who knows. having a psycho like artest in the team must have an influence on others. if he is such a 'model citizen', it is along the lines of what BC envisions ... good people joining the raps organization. 

the pacers staff reported to their fans that JO's knee is good. hope that's true. JO combo with Bosh would be pretty sick. 

TJ+Rasho+Baston? for JO would be good. I think that 17th pick is what Toronto and Indiana can't agree upon. 

TJ+Rasho+Baston+17th pick is on the hefty side ... and i don't see any one else in their roster that we can get reasonably. i think the pacers would take the deal without the pick ... JO's stock is pretty low.


----------



## RX (May 24, 2006)

Screw the pick...we don't have time to develop another youngster...the Raps are now at the hump and need to make some big moves to get to the next level...I dont think this is even possible but if we do this deal can we get Artest for Bargnani somehow? This to me would be a sick lineup:

Calderon/Ukic/???
Parker/Delfino/Kapono
Artest/Moon/Graham
Bosh/Humphries
O'Neal/Brezec


----------



## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

If the trade doesn't include our pick then I wouldn't mind the trade at all. Ford is at least as big of a injury risk as O'neal and even if the whole thing doesn't work out this year O'neal's 20 mil expiring contract would become a big asset for us next year.

One major downside for this trade is that we have exhausted pretty much all our trade assets and will no longer have the ability to acquire a good wing player. If we get Batum or Brandon Rush and either of them pan out we might be ok though.

If the trade goes our depth chart would look like this

O'neal/Bargnani/Brezec
Bosh/Humphries/Bargnani
Moon/Kapono/Batum
Parker/Delfino
Calderon/Ukic

Our backcourt might be a bit weak with Ukic or an unknown PG backing up Calderon, but O'neal and Bosh inside will be a big improvement from last year and gives us a better chance against some of the better teams in the East.


----------



## King Bosh (Jan 23, 2008)

I like this deal, and i'll like it even more if the pick stays in Raptor Land. Jermaine O'neal is a great player, and would help us in so many ways especially in the defense, and toughness category. A lot of people seemed to be concern with the injury factor, and rightfully so...but my personal opinion is that he just lost the passion to play for Indiana and that's why the Pacers are trying to move him out of there. He wants to play for a winning team, and I think the idea of playing alongside Bosh would rejuvenate is passion for the game. The Pacers organization are saying his knees are good, but that's not saying much because they wouldn't say otherwise obviously, but that's not much of a concern, because will have to give a physical so that will really let us know how healthy he really is. I also heard rumours today that JO is currently working out for the start of the season. If we can get him back at is oldself then will definitely win this trade. Should be interesting to see what happens today till draft day.


----------



## kirk_2003 (Jun 23, 2003)

i'll take this deal.. if only we are able to keep our pick.. tj, rasho, fillers is more than enough..


----------



## southeasy (Jun 11, 2003)

i concur, i also think the contract of baston would not be in play. JO makes what 20+ per? it would have to be someone with alittle more beef on the contract. Probably Graham or Humphries unfortunatly (Graham reunites with Stephen Graham in Indy) and i think a young guy like them would really benifit in another system.

so the added 1st rounder (TJ/Rasho+ expiring physical guy like Graham or Humphries and his cheap contract extension) is alittle too much. just makes this untouchable to me, otherwise, I am with the rest of you, banking on his health.

we'd be left with at most a 10 man roster, less wiggle room to begin with & Zero draftpicks..

BTW i'm pretty sure brezec will not be back and is an FA.. i also think i might have read on some euro website about him signing or going to sign overseas this upcoming season.


----------



## george (Aug 8, 2003)

southeasy said:


> i concur, i also think the contract of baston would not be in play. JO makes what 20+ per? it would have to be someone with alittle more beef on the contract. Probably Graham or Humphries unfortunatly (Graham reunites with Stephen Graham in Indy) and i think a young guy like them would really benifit in another system.
> 
> so the added 1st rounder (TJ/Rasho+ expiring physical guy like Graham or Humphries and his cheap contract extension) is alittle too much. just makes this untouchable to me, otherwise, I am with the rest of you, banking on his health.
> 
> ...


JO will make $21,352,500

TJ/Rasho/Graham/Baston Make around $20.8 million.

I say do it, if thats all its going to cost. We don't need Graham or Baston.


----------



## kirk_2003 (Jun 23, 2003)

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_y...YF?slug=aw-tradeoff062308&prov=yhoo&type=lgns
reports stating the deal is off..


----------



## george (Aug 8, 2003)

kirk_2003 said:


> http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_y...YF?slug=aw-tradeoff062308&prov=yhoo&type=lgns
> reports stating the deal is off..


Well it looks like we did have to give up the pick.


----------



## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

They will be back on draft night when nobody puts up a better offer. I don't think Bird wants to wait until the trade deadline. That risks a JO injury. Or a TJ injury for us. But we have more takers now for TJ than he does JO.

We need this pick, especially with TJ going, Rasho going, Garbo gone, and Parker maybe even going back to Europe this year. Our starting caliber talent is disappearing. 

We had no first last year and no seconds this year. We need some youth and talent at cheap prices. Bargs might not work out. Where is our youth and upside coming from?


----------



## changv10 (Apr 25, 2005)

About the Baston inclusion, it would have worked I think as the trade has to be within 15% ... 50% of $21.3 million is over $3 million ... so we need to add up $18.1 million in salary (TJ+Rasho is $16.4), so over about 1.7 would do ... Baston is just under $2 million. 

The trade makes good sense, but losing TJ, Rasho and 17th is really a lot of assets. I don't mind bypassing the trade. Just don't do the Diaw one either though !

If JO is out, we can try working on a deal to bring Elton Brand or Eddie Curry to Toronto.


----------



## crimedog (Jun 3, 2003)

Curry!?! Yuck.


----------



## Balzac (Jun 29, 2006)

No to Curry please.


----------



## billfindlay10 (Jan 24, 2003)

lucky777s said:


> They will be back on draft night when nobody puts up a better offer. I don't think Bird wants to wait until the trade deadline. That risks a JO injury. Or a TJ injury for us. But we have more takers now for TJ than he does JO.
> 
> We need this pick, especially with TJ going, Rasho going, Garbo gone, and *Parker maybe even going back to Europe this year*. Our starting caliber talent is disappearing.
> 
> We had no first last year and no seconds this year. We need some youth and talent at cheap prices. Bargs might not work out. Where is our youth and upside coming from?


Parker is under contract for this year, he can not go back to Europe as it would be against the rules to negotiate with a player under contract and not bought out....and that is not happening. 

I think we can count that Garbo(done) and Primoz, will not be back, with Roko coming over that leaves one roster spot open....Draft pick. If we trade a 3 for 1 or 2 for 1 it will leave the option to sign a John LucasIII or another big if we go wing in the draft.


----------



## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

I hope this goes down, for the sole reason that BC is not afraid to shake things up and that he is not only showing Bosh and Calderon, but the fans that his commitment to winning a basketball franchise in Toronto.

Contract ramifications, leftover caproom, etc. can wait. The safe route has been going on for too long for Toronto and it's time some high risk/high reward actions needs to take place.

Get 'er done BC.


----------



## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

billfindlay10 said:


> Parker is under contract for this year, he can not go back to Europe as it would be against the rules to negotiate with a player under contract and not bought out....and that is not happening.


I seen the article some team in Israel offering AP 3 years 24 million , they said if he accepts it then he would have to wave the last year of his contract I don't think he would do it but the possibility there


----------



## MrkLrn13 (Mar 1, 2006)

We should call ourselves the Toronto Powerforwards.

And I'm surprised some of you are OK with this trade. I mean, O'neal's not getting any younger and we can get more for TJ Ford.


----------



## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

MrkLrn13 said:


> We should call ourselves the Toronto Powerforwards.
> 
> And I'm surprised some of you are OK with this trade. I mean, O'neal's not getting any younger and we can get more for TJ Ford.


think of it this way O'neal and Bosh comes off the books in 2 years the FA crop that year includes Lebron,Wade, CB4 , and most of the players from that draft which to me was the best draft since 96 the raptors will be the front runner cuz of the cap space thats freed up not to make a run at 1 but 2 of those 3 mentioned


----------



## ballocks (May 15, 2003)

i think the draft pick, in spite of the fact that it's a *mid-*first, will be the deal breaker. this entire trade is riding on hype and best-case assumptions: o'neal regaining form, tj staying healthy, #17 turning into john stockton, etc. the real world has apparently been forgotten.

if we pull 17 out of the package, why would indiana cooperate- what's in it for them? rasho would come off the books in 2009 but tj would come off in 2011. why not just keep jermaine for 2010? so i can't see anything but the pick being of interest to the pacers, while the raptors trading it away would squander most of our assets in a very important summer.

honestly, i don't see how it makes sense for either team. the pick, as cheap as it may be, is the axis around which the trade revolves. imo, colangelo can't afford to include it; but bird can't afford to not get it. i don't know how you negotiate around that... maybe jamario. 

peace


----------



## billfindlay10 (Jan 24, 2003)

Mr_B said:


> I seen the article some team in Israel offering AP 3 years 24 million , they said if he accepts it then he would have to wave the last year of his contract I don't think he would do it but the possibility there


Parker does not have an opt out clause or a buy out...he would be in trouble with the courts if he were to try do do that.....so he is not going anywhere.


----------



## Knick Killer (Jul 16, 2006)

It appears that trade talks between the two teams are dead. :sadbanana:



> A rumoured deal that would have sent Indiana's Jermaine O'Neal to Toronto was given life and was being reported in both cities, but it fizzled Monday night.
> 
> The would-be deal had O'Neal coming to Toronto in exchange for point guard T.J. Ford, centre Rasho Nesterovic, Toronto's No. 17 pick in Thursday's draft and possibly another player.
> 
> ...


http://www.nationalpost.com/most_popular/story.html?id=608613


----------



## southeasy (Jun 11, 2003)

Good.

that 17th is going no where.

Bird is an idiot, he'd be LUCKY to get Ford/Rasho/Hump or Graham for JO right now, excluding the pick even. i'd throw in the 2009 1st if Jermaine is actually health, but not this seasons; so i'm hype BC changed his mind if so.


----------

