# The hype machine needs to stop



## Priest (Jun 24, 2003)

Negatives: Podkolzine is very very raw. He has little basketball experience and needs to polish up his game a lot. Almost never plays for his Italian team, and has only played organized basketball for four years. Lacks basic fundamentals such as rebounding and shot blocking. Although he has enormous size, he does not affect the game on the defensive end. In fact, defense is his biggest weakness. He has horrible shot-blocking instincts, and is a bad rebounder. Needs to work on boxing out for rebounds. On offense he has no post up game. Has awkward footwork that can make him look very uncoordinated. There are injury concerns because of his great size. He had to drop out of the draft last year to remove his Pituitary gland. 

Pavel Podkolzine is a very intriguing prospect with great potential. Although he is very raw and unpolished, he could still be picked in the top 5 because of the NBA’s lack of quality centers. 


WTF.....And this guy is a lottery pick??? This potential bull**** has to go out the window....He is a sure fire bum in the NBA....7'5 and cant rebound nor block shots without a offensive game!!! No way he should be picked...another Priest Lauderdale










Negatives: Although Chiriaev has tremendous potential, he is still very much a project. Very, very, very, raw. Needs a lot of work to become a good player. Has good skills, but they could all use a lot of work. Turnover prone, ball handling can be erratic at times. Thinks he can play point guard at the NBA level, but this is not even a possibility. Not a great scorer proven by the fact that he is unable to dominate the Canadian high school league at 7 feet. Has no post moves or back-to-the-basket ability. Hangs around the perimeter too much, despite the fact his jumpshot is shaky at best. Very inconsistent shooter and scorer. Plays on the outside too often and does not crash the boards enough for his size. Is a matador on defense allowing anybody to get past. Very easy for any player with minimal quickness and driving ability to get past Chiriaev. No shot blocking presence or intimidator on D. It will probably take him a couple of years to develop. Has showed rapid improvement, but needs a lot of work to improve his game. 

When you see the word raw...it means one thing..leave it alone especially when it says very 3 times before it. Another product of the hype machine. A poor man's lampe

Other's: Kris Humpheries..WTF...Didnt you learn from the former U of M bball player...What are you thinking??? Just cause you scored 1,000 points doesnt mean you should go to the draft..your team sucked they needed sum 1 to score. Your going to get paid to sit on the bench...better off joining the strong man competition cause you wont last in the L better yet move to iceland and change your name to Blakoff ****off you'll have a better chance of getting drafted then...atleast you'll get a 10 day contract based on international potential...a poor poor poorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr man Clarence weatherspoon...and i mean poorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr



Source:http://nbadraft.tk/










Better then Okafor????? WTF are these GM's smoking...go to college I just dont see whats so great about him...He dunks the ball OOOOOo weeeeeeee....I dont see the fire that LeBron, Amare, KG has. Hell Tim Duncan is a Nitrogen bomb when comparing hunger. I guess he is a good kid but damn go to school...A better version of Leon Smith

Shaun Livingston...go to duke..learn to shoot...go to ricks diner (a place to eat at duke) makes reggie miller look like a prime schwrazzenagger...only thing i see from him is passing and sum ball handling..4get his height just cause he is 6''7 doesnt make him a bball god....

Just had to vent... I'm pretty sure there are other guys that are products of the hype machine but these were the 1st to come to my mind...


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## Starbury03 (Aug 12, 2003)

I agree with what ur saying this could be one of the worst draft ever. There arent many players that are gonna make a contribution their rookie year or ever. The draft will ruin the NBA.


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## bender (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Priest</b>!
> Source:http://nbadraft.tk/


What the **** is that? Got to be the most obvious NBAdraft.net rip I've ever seen.


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## rebelsun (Nov 25, 2003)

Priest, so by your mentality, you would've taken Shane Battier 1st overall?

Assessing potential, and the player's likelihood of reaching that potential, is part of the game.


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## Priest (Jun 24, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>RebelSun</b>!
> Priest, so by your mentality, you would've taken Shane Battier 1st overall?
> 
> Assessing potential, and the player's likelihood of reaching that potential, is part of the game.


No...just stating the obvious...Okafor has the ability to be a all star...I can speak for myself when saying that I knew battier would be nothing but a role player in the nba...Its sad when a player who doesnt get any minutes on his international club team has the ability to be a top 10 pick...thats spelling disaster in its self....i can see the potential in howard but there is no way ill take him over okafor..they say he is athletic like Amare..I dont see it


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## rebelsun (Nov 25, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Priest</b>!
> 
> 
> No...just stating the obvious...Okafor has the ability to be a all star...I can speak for myself when saying that I knew battier would be nothing but a role player in the nba...Its sad when a player who doesnt get any minutes on his international club team has the ability to be a top 10 pick...thats spelling disaster in its self....i can see the potential in howard but there is no way ill take him over okafor..they say he is athletic like Amare..I dont see it


Well, unless it's all just one humungous smoke screen, I don't think all the attention is for nothing.

You have to understand, and embrace, the ideas of potential and upside. Yeah, Pavel could be a complete bust, but he has the potential to be a 7'5 Shaq. Granted, the chances of that are slim, but nonetheless the potential is there. You just can't igonore a guy like that just because he isn't getting huge minutes.


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## Yao_Ming (Aug 11, 2002)

lol what the hell that scouting report makes those two guys sound horrible. How are those guys potential lottery picks?


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## Zach (May 11, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Yao_Ming</b>!
> lol what the hell that scouting report makes those two guys sound horrible. How are those guys potential lottery picks?


7'1" and 7'5"

What else?


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## Priest (Jun 24, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>RebelSun</b>!
> 
> 
> Well, unless it's all just one humungous smoke screen, I don't think all the attention is for nothing.
> ...


Thats true..but hell when shaq was in college you can tell he wasnt a stiff...if you can play you can play....if pavel is 7''5 and cant block or rebound then wut good is he??? When Yao was entering the draft the only negative things were can he play against htis competition and if his team would lt him go...People knew he can play or when dirk played against the nba and hish school teams...you see in time he was going to be special...I never seen pavel play but damn at 7''5 300 plus and doesnt get any burn on his international team then he shouldnt be in the league


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## rebelsun (Nov 25, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Priest</b>!
> 
> 
> Thats true..but hell when shaq was in college you can tell he wasnt a stiff...if you can play you can play....if pavel is 7''5 and cant block or rebound then wut good is he??? When Yao was entering the draft the only negative things were can he play against htis competition and if his team would lt him go...People knew he can play or when dirk played against the nba and hish school teams...you see in time he was going to be special...I never seen pavel play but damn at 7''5 300 plus and doesnt get any burn on his international team then he shouldnt be in the league


Very true. I'm not saying that Pavel isn't raw, but just saying that the potential is there, if he wants to cash it in.

You gotta remember, Pavel just turned 19. He's still a kid. Yeah, Shaq was dominating the SEC at this age, but this kid is playing in a professional league, w/ less skills than Shaq possessed at that age. Against more inferior competition, he has dominated. Pavel just needs to keep working and keep that "dominating" mentality, because that's what he's capable of.


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## Priest (Jun 24, 2003)

damn he is only 19.....never knew thought he was 22 or sumthin...well i hope he turns out to be sumthin great but by reading that scouting report he sounds horrible


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## dounble (Mar 4, 2003)

i agree with "priest",chiriaev and podkolzin are going to be the next bruno sundov and slavko vranes.radja,divac and sabonis were already great players in europa playing for the best clubs there when they were 19 yrs old.meanwhile podkolzine gets 2 MPG in varese,a mediocre italian club.GM`s in the nba are obsessed with size,they forgot that size without skills means absolutely nothing.


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## jdg (Jun 13, 2003)

I think the hype machine is something that will be too hard to stop now that it is in full swing. Back before drafting high school players was cool, the TWolves got a steal in Kevin Garnett. After that, no one wanted to wait around and miss that next great HS player. And then guys like Dirk and Peja turned out great for their teams. And if Sabonis never taught teams the value of a good Euro player, those two definitely did, cause the same effect that Kevin Garnett had on HS drafting.

If a couple Korleone Young's and Leon Smith's came along before Keving Garnett and Kobe Bryant, I think the draft would be a much more conservative affair than it is now. Same case if Slavko Vranes and Nikoloz Tskitishvili came before Dirk, Sabonis and Peja.

The fact is, stars come outta safe picks, but superstars come outta risky picks. The GM's are forced to pick their poison.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

around here the two big russians are the victims of anti-hype. give them at least two full seasons before judging. i mostly want to see how well they move.


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## Ezmo (May 11, 2003)

dude, humphries is an absolute athlete. my friend from minnesota played against him all through high school and is good friends with him. He's a workaholic, always trying to improve his game. He should turn out solid


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## Will (Jun 24, 2003)

I agree, Humpshries is going to be a good NBA player. The dude led the Big Ten in scoring and rebounding as a freshman. You don't do that by accident.


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## AMR (Oct 5, 2003)

I think that Podkolzine could be a better Shawn Bradley, which isn't very dramatic or bad, but Chiriaev.... the best couple of Russians in the draft won't be Pavel and Ivan, it'll be Sergei Monya and Viktor Khryapa, if those 2 played in North America, they'd be hyped too.

Some prospects are valued more by his 'domination' of the competition than the competition where they play. If we talk about international players, I'm sure a lot of people here would pick Chiriaev, a supposed 27-16-6 as nbadraft.net says than Tiago Splitter or even Anderson Varejao, two guys that play in some of the best teams outside the NBA.


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## Cusematt23 (Apr 15, 2004)

I've got to agree with you about the overall hype of NBA prospects.

If you take a look around the league, EVERY SINGLE QUALITY PLAYER came into the NBA as a somewhat polished, somewhat accomplished athletic specimen. Even guys who were very, very raw, such as Jermaine O'Neal, Maggette, KG, were all accomplished at the HS level. They at least showed at one point that they could dominate.

Find me one successful player in the NBA who just got picked up off the street at age 16 and became a great player. Potential only goes so far. 

The fact is, Yao Ming is 7-6. Yao is still not dominating in this league, despite the fact that he is 7-6. Not only is he 7-6, but both of his parents played on the Chinese national team, and he's been around basketball his whole life. Hell, he's been a pro, since what? 15? He averaged 32 and 20 in China! He dominated!

I think that as more and more "projects" fail, the trend will reverse itself back to the point where NBA teams are drafting more and more from the pool of NBA-ready players. In this era of Free Agency, it only makes sense. Take a look at the 2001 draft. Tons of potential in Curry, Chandler, and Brown. Their teams are babysitting them for 3 years, and they haven't shown much. They can now leave it they want. What has this experience done for the Bulls and Wizards? Certainly has not helped.

BTW, both Pavel and Ivan will be busts. Ivan will never even be at a level where he receives major minutes. He is a much less refined Nik Tskitishvili, with a huge ego. Pavel, haven't seen him play, but what makes anyone think he'll be good? Okay, I guess he has a .05% chance of being Shaq. You have to at least dominate the U18 national championships in Russia to deserve lottery consideration.

Howard and Livingston, however, are refined, athletic, instinctive players. I can almost guarantee that both will be good players in this league. I especially like Livingston.


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## Ron Mexico (Feb 14, 2004)

Man I thought the NBA was talking the best young players out of Europe


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## Priest (Jun 24, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Ezmo</b>!
> dude, humphries is an absolute athlete. my friend from minnesota played against him all through high school and is good friends with him. He's a workaholic, always trying to improve his game. He should turn out solid


and ur point? so is 90%of the nba...he's not going to be anything in the nba if he comesout..my bad he cant go back causehe signed with a agent...another case where a kid thinks he is better then he really is


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## Yao_Ming (Aug 11, 2002)

Is Kosta Perovic any better then Chiraev or Podkolozine? He sounds like he is a potential bust as well.


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## ivo_krka (Jan 29, 2004)

I've got to say one thing: a young player has to play to improve. I'm talking about very young players of 17-19 years of age. If you sit on the bench on a strong team it won't do you any good. Better would be to find a weaker team where a prospect would have good minutes and besides that room at offense to create his own plays. 

Khryapa and Monya have been on a strong team for a couple of seasons, they have the minutes, but their role is limited to playing defense and that won't do them much good. Because of that I don't think Chiriaev will be a bust if he plays on that level in youth competition. He maybe doesn't have to play against stronger opponents, but at least he can learn the game and create his own style of play. 

On the other hand Pavel is going to be a bust. He's sitting on bench in Italian league for the last two seasons, hasn't improved his game much and I would recomend him, of course if he wants to become a good player to try playing on a weaker team where he'll get the minutes and room to improve his creativity.

And Tsikishvili also hasn't played anything in Europe and he's really struggling, while Nene played in weaker Brazilian league and look at him now.


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## dounble (Mar 4, 2003)

> Kosta Perovic any better then Chiraev or Podkolozine? He sounds like he is a potential bust as well.


perovic is a different case,he played for the yugoslav national team in last years european championship and he got substantial playing time in the euroleague this season.


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## AMR (Oct 5, 2003)

ivo_krka, then if those players aren't good enough for playing in the best european leagues.... how can they play in NBA???
I'm tired of the drafting for potential... I don't say that Europeans should do like Sabonis, but there should be a minimum age for accomplishing something.


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## indiana_07_pacers (Apr 16, 2004)

im sick of all the europeans/ballers from over seas that ive never heard of coming to the nba. id so much rather have a bunch of high schoolers come in. this is making kids from college the least amount taken in the draft. thats sad.:no:


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## AMR (Oct 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>indiana_07_pacers</b>!
> im sick of all the europeans/ballers from over seas that ive never heard of coming to the nba. id so much rather have a bunch of high schoolers come in. this is making kids from college the least amount taken in the draft. thats sad.:no:


ok, as an European I'm sick of all the good players leaving to the US... I'd love if you sent us Peja, Dirk, Pau, Tony Parker and the other europeans that you never heard of and you keep your high schoolers...


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

i love the influx of internationals, the nba grew pretty stagnant after depending on college talent for so many years. 

these guys (ivan and pavel) are big name prospects for a reason, they are not automatic busts. this is the same kind of anti-hype heaped upon yao and even lebron last year. these guys aren't on the same level obviously but i also think it's obvious that they are NBA calibre prospects. 

Ivan has shown major dedication to improve and get stronger. his comments, along with demonstrating his self-confidence, also show a strong work ethic. he has added a lot of muscle in the last year and 7'1 players with great mobility and skills are NOT a dime a dozen.

Pavel? he's not a guaranteed bust by any means. who here has even watched him play? the word is that he has also improved a lot from last year, when he wowed NBA GMs. he has to develop a better feel for the game but if he has a healthy NBA career, he'll be an impact player. is he going to be the best center in the NBA? probably not. can he be above average? i certainly think so.


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## jokeaward (May 22, 2003)

There's lots of hype. Hell, an April game between the Sox and Yankees is made out to be Game 7 all over again. It's not.

It's not just HSers. If you asked Gabriel about Gaines on draft day, he'd probably gush, as would other GMs. Now he's riding the pine.

Pavel's huge. I haven't really seen his body, but I saw Slavko's. When he went up on stage on draft day, he was obviously a skinny, skinny man.

If Pavel can play at all, he can be like Rik Smits (like the optimistic comparison) and be worthy of his pick. The two best teams in the lague in terms of record relied heavily on guys like Jeff Foster and Ervin Johnson for crying out loud.

http://www.basketballreference.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=SMITSRI01

But it is kind of scary to think Yao "can" rebound at 7'6" (9 or 10 a game. Wow.) and Pavel "can't" it seems. Or maybe that's a problem of hype.


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## xpossey (Jul 20, 2003)

*Re: Re: The hype machine needs to stop*



> Originally posted by <b>bender</b>!
> 
> What the f*** is that? Got to be the most obvious NBAdraft.net rip I've ever seen.


and its a pretty good site too


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## shazha (Nov 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Priest</b>!
> 
> 
> Thats true..but hell when shaq was in college you can tell he wasnt a stiff...if you can play you can play....if pavel is 7''5 and cant block or rebound then wut good is he??? When Yao was entering the draft the only negative things were can he play against htis competition and if his team would lt him go...People knew he can play or when dirk played against the nba and hish school teams...you see in time he was going to be special...I never seen pavel play but damn at 7''5 300 plus and doesnt get any burn on his international team then he shouldnt be in the league


Rebounding, post position, shotblocking, jump shooting can all be taught by the best coaches in the world (nba). 

Height and size CANT be taught.


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## TRON (Feb 29, 2004)

> Originally posted by *Priest !*
> When you see the word raw...it means one thing..leave it alone especially when it says very 3 times before it. Another product of the hype machine. A poor man's lampe


I am sick of people reading scouting reports on players, then reciting their BS brainwashed comments in response

*The truth is that scouts know **** sometimes, don't be fooled into believing all of what they say!* 

If you believe all that "raw" BS, players like Amare last year were deemed "raw". this year Chris Bosh was written to be "raw"

It all depends what your definition of raw is....
To me, being "raw" you have to be talented but not yet polished, untalented or semi-talented players are not "raw" and never will be...so being "raw" might not necessarily be a bad thing


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## Philo (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>AMR</b>!
> 
> 
> ok, as an European I'm sick of all the good players leaving to the US... I'd love if you sent us Peja, Dirk, Pau, Tony Parker and the other europeans that you never heard of and you keep your high schoolers...


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## CameronCrazie13 (Jun 10, 2003)

The Euro and Potential obsession has to end, it's single handedly sent the NBA to total hell.


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## ivo_krka (Jan 29, 2004)

This is the All Euroleague team of the year:

S. Jasikevicius, L. Greer, M. Brown, M. Vujanic, A. Nocioni, D. Bodiroga, M. Turckan, D. Vanterpool, A. Sabonis and N. Vujcic.

I'm sure NBA teams should consider bringing players like Jasikevicius, Vujanic, Nocioni, Bodiroga or Vujcic overseas because any of these players would make immediate impact in the NBA like Jaric or Ginobili did. This should be their priority and after that they should think about bringing young European prospects without any European experience into the league.


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## Priest (Jun 24, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>TRON</b>!
> 
> 
> I am sick of people reading scouting reports on players, then reciting their BS brainwashed comments in response
> ...


trust me i know my basketball...amare and bosh have the talent to be something..i know scouts dont know everything i dont like a lot of them because they are hung up on potential and forget about skills...but damn if someone is 7''5 and cant rebound or block shots without any offensive game then there is something to worry about


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## AMR (Oct 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>ivo_krka</b>!
> This is the All Euroleague team of the year:
> 
> S. Jasikevicius, L. Greer, M. Brown, M. Vujanic, A. Nocioni, D. Bodiroga, M. Turckan, D. Vanterpool, A. Sabonis and N. Vujcic.
> ...


:yes:


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## Knicksbiggestfan (Apr 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>ivo_krka</b>!
> This is the All Euroleague team of the year:
> 
> S. Jasikevicius, L. Greer, M. Brown, M. Vujanic, A. Nocioni, D. Bodiroga, M. Turckan, D. Vanterpool, A. Sabonis and N. Vujcic.
> ...


WE TRIED BRINGING Vujanic OVER!


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## Zach (May 11, 2003)

Look at Andris Beidrins stats

Here 

Just Awful, but he is European and 6-11 so it is all good.


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## jdg (Jun 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>indiana_07_pacers</b>!
> im sick of all the europeans/ballers from over seas that ive never heard of coming to the nba. id so much rather have a bunch of high schoolers come in. this is making kids from college the least amount taken in the draft. thats sad.:no:


gotta hate the immigrants taking jobs from honest hard working americans, eh? I'm joking everyone! This post just made he think of people like that.

Anyways, I think the 20 year old age limit would be a good thing for bringing over the European players. It would give these teams more time to check out these players who usually don't get to be scouted as much of the american players. There would be less busts locked up for three years on the pine.


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## dounble (Mar 4, 2003)

> Look at Andris Beidrins stats
> 
> Here
> 
> Just Awful, but he is European and 6-11 so it is all good.


this competition doesnt exist anymore and biedrins played in it when he was 16,the stats are outdated and not accurate.




> S. Jasikevicius, L. Greer, M. Brown, M. Vujanic, A. Nocioni, D. Bodiroga, M. Turckan, D. Vanterpool, A. Sabonis and N. Vujcic.


vujanic wasnt ready to go to the nba last season,i think the knicks should wait another year til they bring him over.lynn greer is no nba prospect,he played for a weak team where he could build up his stats.sabonis would be the starting center in 90% of the nba teams,turckcan is a great and versatile powerforward.you wont find a center with better offensive skills than vujcic right now outside the nba,alot of teams knocked on his door (knicks,celtics etc) but he is still undecided whether to leave europe.bodiroga is currently the best player in europe but i think that he`d hardly adjust to the nba type of b-ball.andres nocioni represents the full package,excellent reobunder, good scorer and defender,excellent technique and very good court vision.imagine him being the smallforward-version of manu ginobili.


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## dounble (Mar 4, 2003)

i forgot to mention jasikevicius,an awesome pointguard and a true leader on the court.maybe some of you remember his excellent performane against kidd in the 2000 olympics.his only problem is his "toni kukoc"mentality,he`s sometimes too lazy during regular season but you can count on him in decisive and important periods during a season.


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## ThatBlazerGuy (May 1, 2003)

Could u please give me jasikevicius's stats, age and height. 

I have heard alot about him. He seems like a great floor leader. 

I think he would be a great PG for the Charlotte Expansion team next year. He seems like he could lead the younger guys and be a good presence. He would also be able to immediatley get 35+ minutes a game.


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## AMR (Oct 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>ThatBlazerGuy</b>!
> Could u please give me jasikevicius's stats, age and height.
> 
> I have heard alot about him. He seems like a great floor leader.
> ...


I don't know his exact age, but he must be 27 or 28
He's 6'3'' and he's averaged 18.1 ppg and 4.4 apg in 31 mpg in the Euroleague Top 16 with Maccabi Tel Aviv


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## AMR (Oct 5, 2003)

An important thing with guards in Europe is that assists are counted differently than in the US, only direct passes count, so Saras' 4 apg may be 7 or 8 'american' assists


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## jmk (Jun 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Starbury03</b>!
> I agree with what ur saying this could be one of the worst draft ever. There arent many players that are gonna make a contribution their rookie year or ever. The draft will ruin the NBA.


"The draft will ruin the NBA." Alrite, fine! No more players anyone. The NBA will allow no more new players from now on!


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## "Matt!" (Jul 24, 2002)

*sigh*

You guys realize these people are like 17 years old, and they are playing against grown men every day? 

Not only that, but Europe is not a farm league. The Knicks didn't draft Vujanic and say "let's keep him over there for 3 years, then we'll bring him up to the big leagues." No, Vujanic stays over there until HE wants to come over, which may be never! He has a great deal over there, lots of money, free house, top player, all the fame, etc. The same reason Dejan never came over.


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## Yao_Ming (Aug 11, 2002)

*peter john ramos*

these are the weaknesses for Peter John Ramos:

Like almost every young foreign big man in the draft he is very very raw. Ramos has only played organized basketball for 4 years. Not a good defensive player despite his size. In Puerto Rico, he blocks a large amount of shots simply by camping in the paint. With the defensive 3-second rule he won¡¯t be able to do this in the NBA. He has no idea how to play team defense. He has poor lateral movement and struggles to guard anyone off the dribble. A horrible shooter from anywhere outside of 5 feet. Shoots a pitiful 50% from the free throw line. Has hands of stone, he struggles to catch any thing other then a simple chest pass. Needs to work on boxing out players. Most of his rebounds simply fall into his hands.

source www.nbadraft.tk

Oh man this guy sounds horrible


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## Priest (Jun 24, 2003)

*Re: peter john ramos*



> Originally posted by <b>Yao_Ming</b>!
> these are the weaknesses for Peter John Ramos:
> 
> Like almost every young foreign big man in the draft he is very very raw. Ramos has only played organized basketball for 4 years. Not a good defensive player despite his size. In Puerto Rico, he blocks a large amount of shots simply by camping in the paint. With the defensive 3-second rule he won¡¯t be able to do this in the NBA. He has no idea how to play team defense. He has poor lateral movement and struggles to guard anyone off the dribble. A horrible shooter from anywhere outside of 5 feet. Shoots a pitiful 50% from the free throw line. Has hands of stone, he struggles to catch any thing other then a simple chest pass. Needs to work on boxing out players. Most of his rebounds simply fall into his hands.
> ...


and yet he is the next great 1


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## Quasi-Quasar (Jul 18, 2002)

What that doesn't say about Ramos, is he has improved drastically over the past year. Lately he's strung together two big games, including 30-20-6assist-4blocks versus Stanley Roberts. Ramos can jump like a guard too; he can almost dunk from the free-throw line. He may amount to little more than a 7-3 Tyson Chandler, but he also may be a 7-3 beast. His offensive game is not that weak, I was in PR last spring and even then he had a good baby hook (especially going left for some odd reason). And he shows the potential of being a good high post player because of his tremendous speed and athletic ability for his size. Given the right coach and some time, there's no reason why Ramos can't be a good center. Ramos and Ha Seung-Jin will turn a lot of heads. While Pavel was riding the pine (although he had a nice showing in the U18 tourney), Ha was working his butt off at UCLA training facilities, and Ramos was playing again some decent competition (certainly better than NCAA). I'll go out on limb, I'll say if the Clippers get via a trade, a mid-first pick I'd take Ramos with it. Also Ha and Ramos are both good passers for their size, and while he has nothing on Sabas, Andriuskevicius is a very good passer for a 7-3 guy as well...There will be international shockers both ways in this draft, bust here and there, star here and there. 

I'll nominate some guys:
Bust: Sergey Lishchuk, Ivan Chiriaev, Sergei Monya, Padkolzine, 
7-4 Iranian guy (haven't heard anything about him lately)

Shockingly good: Ramos, Ha Seung-Jin, Marcelo Huertas, Anderson Varejao, Drejer

As expected: Biedrins, Bogdanovic, Perovic, Splitter, Udrih, Khryapa, Vujacic

Also maybe one of you guys know, what ever happened to Christos Tapoutis from Greece? I remember his bday is 82 so he should be auto-eligible, and he used to be talked about as a good prospect.


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## cheezdoodle (May 25, 2003)

*Re: peter john ramos*



> Originally posted by <b>Yao_Ming</b>!
> these are the weaknesses for Peter John Ramos:
> 
> Like almost every young foreign big man in the draft he is very very raw. Ramos has only played organized basketball for 4 years. Not a good defensive player despite his size. In Puerto Rico, he blocks a large amount of shots simply by camping in the paint. With the defensive 3-second rule he won¡¯t be able to do this in the NBA. He has no idea how to play team defense. He has poor lateral movement and struggles to guard anyone off the dribble. A horrible shooter from anywhere outside of 5 feet. Shoots a pitiful 50% from the free throw line. Has hands of stone, he struggles to catch any thing other then a simple chest pass. Needs to work on boxing out players. Most of his rebounds simply fall into his hands.
> ...


You do realize that this person has never seen this guy play and he is just paraphrasing what I wrote in the scouting report I did, right? 

He says- Not a good defensive player despite his size. In Puerto Rico, he blocks a large amount of shots simply by camping in the paint. With the defensive 3-second rule he won¡¯t be able to do this in the NBA.

I say-Defensively is where he will struggle the most initially. The Puerto Rican league does not have a defensive three second rule and Ramos spends most of his time standing underneath the basket waiting to challenge anyone that steps inside the paint. He blocks a good amount of shots in the Puerto Rican league due to his size and athletic ability, but this will not be nearly as easy in the NBA. 

He says-Like almost every young foreign big man in the draft he is very very raw. Ramos has only played organized basketball for 4 years.

I say-Ramos has only been playing organized basketball for about four years now, and his game is understandably pretty raw. 

He says-Peter John Ramos is 7 foot 4 and can actually move. Runs the floor well and has good athleticism for his size. Definitely not a stiff, he can run the floor well and has decent leaping ability.

I say-Standing seven feet and four inches tall, Ramos already has a huge advantage over 98% of the NBA. While most players at these heights are notorious for being labeled “stiffs” because of their lack of mobility, this is not the case with Ramos. He actually moves well for a player his size and is very capable of getting up and down the floor and moving in all directions. He is an above average athlete...
---

What is this guy a freaking parrot?

I interviewed Peter John last week and asked him what his updated measurements are and he told me he is 7-4, 282. Surprise surpise they put the same exact thing up there today. 

They even have the same exact pictures up as we do, it's freaking ridiculous. 

We were hit pretty hard by this guy plagarizing, but nbadraft.net was hit even harder. Look at his class lists:

http://www.geocities.com/wsox13461/classlists.htm

It's the same exact lists that draftnet has. :laugh: 

I hope this kid knows what he's getting into.


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## The_Franchise (Mar 30, 2003)

*Re: Re: peter john ramos*



> Originally posted by <b>cheezdoodle</b>!
> I hope this kid knows what he's getting into.


On your site, who scouted Andris Biedrins?


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## cheezdoodle (May 25, 2003)

*Re: Re: Re: peter john ramos*



> Originally posted by <b>The Franchise</b>!
> 
> 
> On your site, who scouted Andris Biedrins?


He asked me to take down his name, but trust me he has seen him play plenty of times, and he agreed in writing to have his profile up there, just he prefered it be anonymous. It's not blantant plagarism like the guys that made this site.


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## Zalgirinis (Feb 18, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>TheGoods</b>!
> I'll nominate some guys:
> Bust: Sergey Lishchuk, Ivan Chiriaev, Sergei Monya, Padkolzine,
> 7-4 Iranian guy (haven't heard anything about him lately)
> ...


You cant put Monya as bust IMHO. Unless, you think Diaw or Pietrus are busts. Two years ago Diaw and Pietrus were dominating U20 championship for France as did Khryapa or Monya for Russia. If Monya goes to NBA he wont be a star, but a decent player like Diaw, Pietrus or Welsch.

As for Christos Tapoutos... two years ago he was thought to have great future and he was really good and looked even mature enough, but it seems that he didnt do anything to improve in those two years. He even isnt candidate for Greece NT, so I think you can forget him.


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## Matiz (Jun 5, 2003)

> You do realize that this person has never seen this guy play and he is just paraphrasing what I wrote in the scouting report I did, right?


I had the same feeling, reading some of the foreigners profiles...



> You cant put Monya as bust IMHO. Unless, you think Diaw or Pietrus are busts. Two years ago Diaw and Pietrus were dominating U20 championship for France as did Khryapa or Monya for Russia. If Monya goes to NBA he wont be a star, but a decent player like Diaw, Pietrus or Welsch.


But Diaw, Pietrus and Welsch were considered oustanding athletes in europe... I haven't sen any big-time athleticism from Monya, I could be wrong and he may turn out to be just a decent nba player.
I just have a feeling no team wants to give away the next Kirilenko so Monya will be drafted higher than he imho should be.


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## Quasi-Quasar (Jul 18, 2002)

I don't see much out of Monya, that's why I predict that he'll be bust. He is 6-7 not 6-9 and he is not as athletic as Khryapa (who's at least 6-8, if not 6-9). So if I'm picking just a defensive specialist, Khryapa is the better choice; he could be a similar player to Stacey Augmon, or maybe even better. Monya could be a good in the NBA, _I_ just don't see it happening...But Pietrus and Diaw are definitely not busts, they both did well this year...And Welsch is becoming a decent combo guard.


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## dounble (Mar 4, 2003)

> I'll nominate some guys:
> Bust: Sergey Lishchuk, Ivan Chiriaev, Sergei Monya, Padkolzine,
> 7-4 Iranian guy (haven't heard anything about him lately)


monya surely wont be a bust,he`s a better prospect than pietrus or diaw.monya is currently an effective role player(15 mpg,5.8 ppg) for cska moscow (the best team in europe) and you can expect him to become a (very) good role player in the nba.


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## dounble (Mar 4, 2003)

another player you should really keep eyes on is marko tomas (6-7,sf-sg,1985).he wont enter this years draft but i expect his stocks to rise during the U-20 european championships this year.he achieved 27 mpg,12.2 ppg,5 rpg for zagreb in the uleb cup,but those stats cant show how gifted and talented he is.


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## Yao_Ming (Aug 11, 2002)

Yes now that I've seen the similarities, this website nbadraft.tk does look like a blatant ripoff of nbadraft.net and draftcity.com. Look at the flash intro compared to nbadraft.nets flash intro....lol it's ridiculous


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## italianBBlover (Mar 5, 2003)

First of all: Pavel can shots, rebounds and blocks, I've seen him not few times ...

I think that somebody from america must shut up without watch him  
Are NBA scouts morons ? 

Other point: he don't have any big injuries till now, only fews and lights like other "normal" players.

And last: yes, he's playing in the 3th league of the world, not with "kids" like your college guys.
In the competition against other 18-19 years old guys he made some games with 30 points and 20 rebounds too ...

Gretz


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

I did not know Gretzky knew so much about Italian Basketball.:grinning:


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## ivo_krka (Jan 29, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>dounble</b>!
> another player you should really keep eyes on is marko tomas (6-7,sf-sg,1985).he wont enter this years draft but i expect his stocks to rise during the U-20 european championships this year.he achieved 27 mpg,12.2 ppg,5 rpg for zagreb in the uleb cup,but those stats cant show how gifted and talented he is.




I completely agree with you. It was a great match two days before when Ukic's team faced Tomas' team. Ukic's team won by 13, he scored 31, but Tomas was quite impressive, too. He had 22+6 and he's a year younger than Ukic. He plays SG/SF, has great athletical abilities. He can dunk all the time and is going to be a great NBA player. Surely first round pick in the upcoming drafts. After all Rudy T and Larry Bird watched him play this year and they were pretty impressed with what they've seen.


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## cheezdoodle (May 25, 2003)

thanks to whoever runs the site (nbadraft.tk) for taking down the scouting report for Ramos. If you want to use that picture for Ramos, I would suggest giving credit so you don't get in trouble. I'm not going to get involved in that, though.


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