# Rumor - Houston Offers Us...



## MagillaGorilla (Jul 8, 2004)

Someone on realgm claims to have heard on Fox 26 that Houston has offered the Bulls Wilkes, Pike, and Adrian Griffen for Mutumbo. 

If this is true, it's just what Houston's offering, not a deal or anything yet. 

I think it'd be good. 
What do you guys think?


----------



## Maestro (May 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>MagillaGorilla</b>!
> Someone on realgm claims to have heard on Fox 26 that Houston has offered the Bulls Wilkes, Pike, and Adrian Griffen for Mutumbo.
> 
> If this is true, it's just what Houston's offering, not a deal or anything yet.
> ...


For starters a link would be sweet. Also I doubt we're going to take on contracts. Unless they are expiring. And frankly the roster is rather full. We really don't need more bodies save a big guard.


----------



## MagillaGorilla (Jul 8, 2004)

link up.:grinning:http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=270234


----------



## Kismet (Mar 1, 2003)

Sounds like Houston wants to keep its trade exception. Wilks is a free agent, Griffin is on an ending contract and Piatkowski is under contract through 05/06. There's just no way we can take on three contracts for one. Gotta pass on this proposal.


----------



## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

Ick.


----------



## Maestro (May 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Kismet</b>!
> Sounds like Houston wants to keep its trade exception. Wilks is a free agent, Griffin is on an ending contract and Piatkowski is under contract through 05/06. There's just no way we can take on three contracts for one. Gotta pass on this proposal.


Yup. Also I believe that Griffin brings some character issues to the table if I'm not mistaken.


----------



## Like A Breath (Jun 16, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Maestro</b>!
> 
> 
> Yup. Also I believe that Griffin brings some character issues to the table if I'm not mistaken.


Are you thinking of Eddie or Adrian?


----------



## Kismet (Mar 1, 2003)

Now here's a more interesting bit of speculation on a potential trade between Chicago and Houston:

The Bulls would like to acquire veteran shooting guard Eric Piatkowski (two years, $5.75 million) for Mutombo (one year, $4.5 million). 

The Rockets have a trade exception from the Tracy McGrady deal that can cover the difference between the two salaries. The teams also have discussed adding players, such as Adrian Griffin or free agent Scott Padgett.

http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/sports_story.asp?intID=3820998

Now, I may be confusing him with someone else, but I think it might be our good friend FJ who has been an advocate of adding Padgett in the past. He's got a nice perimeter touch, something the Bulls could always use. Though he's a fringe player at best, he does have more appeal than some of the players we've currently got on our roster including Jefferies and Trybanski. And he's definitely a step up from 5'11" Mike Wilks. Still, a 3 for one deal is a little rough to swallow. We've already got 13 players (including Mutombo and excluding Duhon) under contract (guarranteed) for the 04/05 season. A 3 for one swap puts us at 15 players and leaves guys like Duhon, Johnson and Pargo on the outside looking in.


----------



## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Kismet</b>!
> Now here's a more interesting bit of speculation on a potential trade between Chicago and Houston:
> 
> The Bulls would like to acquire veteran shooting guard Eric Piatkowski (two years, $5.75 million) for Mutombo (one year, $4.5 million).
> ...


http://www.hoopshype.com/salaries/houston.htm

Griffin, who really hasn't done anything since a nice little stretch in DAL is signed for cheap (800k) only through this season. I don't see Padgett anywhere on HH so I'm guessing he's a FA? I actually like the thought of adding Pike and Padgett's shooting to this team. But the roster would be a mess to clean up.


----------



## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

I actually quite like the idea of adding Padgett and Griffin. Both of those guys bring something that fitst. Padgett is kind of a poor man's Brian Cardinal. When you think about the fact that last year Brian Cardinal was a poor man's Brian Cardinal, it becomes more appealing. Anyway, back in Utah where he played the 4 mostly and the 3 a little, and opened up space for Malone, he looked nice. We don't have anyone on our team that can do that.

We also don't have anyone on our team with Griffin's defensive ability (at least, if he's recovered from his injuries last year).

The other nice thing is both of these guys are young and cheap. Now what we need to do is hold out for these two guys and not touch Pike with a ten foot pole. He makes absolutely no sense for this team. The other two guys, even though they're not great, make perfect sense in that they fill roles that need to be filled.

If they'll take Deke with their exception, and then we could turn around and get those two guys *without* taking back Pike, I'd be quite impressed.


----------



## Junkyard Dog13 (Aug 9, 2003)

you huys need to unload Mutumbo or Davis, since Mutumbo's contract is smaller I think you guys can unload him easier.
Curry should be your starting C.
He has all the tools be a great C but needs to be more consistant which is what I've heard from announcers during Raptor Vs Bulls games.


----------



## bulls (Jan 1, 2004)

it woundnt be a mess

if we did the 3 for one we would have 20 players on our roster,thats 4 players that need to be cut along with duhon going over sea's to play for a yr or so. 

so thos 4 to be cut imo should be Jefferies,Wilks,Shirley,and either Trybanski,erob and LJ3. if we trade mutombo then our 4-5's are TC,EC,AD,OH,CT and i think we should keep all 5 of them just in case someone goes down.also some ppl think pargo should be cut,i think pax should give him a 2-5yr deal starting at 900k. 

so that leaves either Erob or LJ3 left to cut and you know pax wont cut erob if he could he would have done so by now so that leaves just LJ3 

KH,Pargo,FW 
BG,EP,AG 
AN,Deng,Erob,PIP 
TC,OH 
EC,AD,CT


----------



## MagillaGorilla (Jul 8, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Junkyard Dog13</b>!
> you huys need to unload Mutumbo or Davis, since Mutumbo's contract is smaller I think you guys can unload him easier.
> Curry should be your starting C.
> He has all the tools be a great C but needs to be more consistant which is what I've heard from announcers during Raptor Vs Bulls games.


Ummm...Okay?:uhoh:


----------



## Machinehead (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Kismet</b>!
> 
> Now, I may be confusing him with someone else, but I think it might be our good friend FJ who has been an advocate of adding Padgett in the past. He's got a nice perimeter touch, something the Bulls could always use. Though he's a fringe player at best, he does have more appeal than some of the players we've currently got on our roster including Jefferies and Trybanski.


I nominated Padgy as an alternative to Brian Cardinal 

Not a 3 - not a 4 but a range shooting forward ( who can help spread the forward line some - Curry needs a range shooter on the forward line ( IMO ) who is fundamentally solid and will play solidly with a defensive scheme 

Padgy knows all about system driven ball having played sucessfully under Jerry Sloan at Utah and having a moderately sucessful college career in the Pitino driven Kentucky program 

Not a sexy pick up but he'd be a better quality pick up over Linton Johnson


----------



## DontBeCows (Apr 22, 2003)

> If they'll take Deke with their exception, and then we could turn around and get those two guys *without* taking back Pike, I'd be quite impressed.


Piatkowski is the player that we want. He would be the best player in the trade if it goes down. The guy can shoot and he's a smart player. He had an ankle injury early last season and never got back on track afterwards. We need shooters on this team, and Pike is one of the best out there. 

His contract is not horrible. He's got this year and next year left for around 3 mil. per. That's a reasonable price for him.


----------



## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>DontBeCows</b>!
> 
> 
> Piatkowski is the player that we want. He would be the best player in the trade if it goes down. The guy can shoot and he's a smart player. He had an ankle injury early last season and never got back on track afterwards. We need shooters on this team, and Pike is one of the best out there.
> ...


How is it a reasonable price for him? He's going to be 34 to start the season. He didn't play well last year and he was injured. Most jump shooters seem to go downhill around this age.

Locking up 3M in him next season, when we could at least go after a better FA, doesn't make sense. I don't really want Cheney, but I'd rather have him for a year than tie up money in Pike. It's not a horrible contract, but it's a counterproductive move given the uncertainty around Curry, Chandler, and whatever else we might do.

And Cheney brings defense. Pike doesn't.

Cheney doesn't bring a 3 point shot, but that seems pretty irrelevant to me. Why do we need perimeter shooting? Hinrich's a good shooter, Gordon's a good shooter. Deng looks to be good. Noicini hit threes at a decent clip in Europe. ERob, if they let him play, is a very good mid-range shooter.


----------



## rocketsthathavespurs (Jul 17, 2004)

man when will this trade go down


----------



## DontBeCows (Apr 22, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Mikedc</b>!
> 
> 
> How is it a reasonable price for him? He's going to be 34 to start the season. He didn't play well last year and he was injured. Most jump shooters seem to go downhill around this age.


Athletic swingmen fade fast when they get older; jump shooters don't . Steve Kerr was still effective the season before last with the Spurs. Reggie Miller can still play today when he's almost 40. 



> Locking up 3M in him next season, when we could at least go after a better FA, doesn't make sense.


I don't think it really matters. Unless we let either Tyson or Eddy walk for nothing (which won't happen) we'll not be far enough under the cap to have more cap room than the MLE (assuming the cap is at ~$44 mil and MLE is at ~4.5 mil). So we would probably be better off over the cap and have the MLE to spend. Our major cap relief will come in 06' when AD and ERob come off the books. That's also when Pike's contract ends. So getting Pike doesn't hurt our cap situation. 



> And Cheney brings defense. Pike doesn't.
> 
> Cheney doesn't bring a 3 point shot, but that seems pretty irrelevant to me. Why do we need perimeter shooting? Hinrich's a good shooter, Gordon's a good shooter. Deng looks to be good. Noicini hit threes at a decent clip in Europe. ERob, if they let him play, is a very good mid-range shooter.


It's true that Pike doesn't play great D (which is the reason why he didn't get much playing time under Van Gundy last year), but he brings more to the table than someone like Cheney does. We need shooters to spread the D. One of the major problems with the Bulls last year was that they were a horrible shooting team. Nobody could knock down an open jumper consistently (except maybe Hinrich at times). That should change with the addition of Piatkowski. Kirk alone would probably get two, three more assists a game setting up threes for Pike. And no, we don't have a shooter as good as Pike. Deng doesn't have a three point shot; Nocioni's three is inconsistent at best (for international three-point range). Gordon maybe a great shooter in college, but he needs time to adjust to the NBA game. I don't expect him to shoot a high percentage from the beginning. 

Piatkowski would give us a great shooter, a smart veteran, and a good influence in the locker room at a reasonable price. I think that the Bulls can certainly use a player like this.


----------



## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>DontBeCows</b>!
> 
> I don't think it really matters. Unless we let either Tyson or Eddy walk for nothing (which won't happen) we'll not be far enough under the cap to have more cap room than the MLE (assuming the cap is at ~$44 mil and MLE is at ~4.5 mil). So we would probably be better off over the cap and have the MLE to spend. Our major cap relief will come in 06' when AD and ERob come off the books. That's also when Pike's contract ends. So getting Pike doesn't hurt our cap situation.


Well, I disagree with the other points, but I guess we'll just have to disagree.

However, next year's decison on how big of an offer to match for Curry or Chandler will in part depend on how much the Bulls feel they can pay without triggering a potential luxury tax. Pike will commit us to paying $2.7M more towards that threshold. For a 35 year old guy who doesn't bring the defensive 2 we need? And for a guy from whom we'd get comparable or less production from than a guy we could sign for the veteran minimum? Doesn't seem to make sense to me.


----------



## Machinehead (Jun 12, 2002)

I think I'd rather slam my nuts in a drawer than deal Deke for Pike


----------



## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>F.Jerzy</b>!
> I think I'd rather slam my nuts in a drawer than deal Deke for Pike


Well there goes that deal. :sigh:


----------



## Machinehead (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>DontBeCows</b>!
> 
> 
> Athletic swingmen fade fast when they get older; jump shooters don't . Steve Kerr was still effective the season before last with the Spurs. Reggie Miller can still play today when he's almost 40.


Reggie Miller and Steve Kerr did not carry the injuries through their career like Eric Piatowski has 

Nothing hurts more than trading for a one trick pony jump shooter whose knees and/or ankles are shot 

It all starts in the legs for a jump shooter


----------



## Chi_Lunatic (Aug 20, 2002)

Adrian Griffin was a SICK defender when he played for dallas. Haven't heard nothing about him since he left though. If he could provide the same defense he did in dallas, i'd welcome him in a heartbeat.


----------



## robg (Jul 19, 2002)

UPDATE:

According to the score670, the Houston Rockets are doing there best to include Moochie Norris into the deal, but Pax is not budging on this new proposal. 

:wave:


----------



## chifaninca (May 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>F.Jerzy</b>!
> I think I'd rather slam my nuts in a drawer than deal Deke for Pike


DENG!

That hurt to read.........


----------



## DreamShake34 (Jun 9, 2004)

> UPDATE:
> 
> According to the score670, the Houston Rockets are doing there best to include Moochie Norris into the deal, but Pax is not budging on this new proposal.


You realize Moochie was traded to the Knicks, right?


----------



## Showtyme (Jun 24, 2002)

I think Pike and Griffin give us two halves of what we'd like to see in one player.

The roster problems wouldn't be terrific if it was just the two of them. We could easily stand to lose Jeffries.

Pike IS still a good shooter. Say what you want about his ankles or whatever, but I'm pretty sure he could still walk up the court, skip around the arc and be ready to launch threes at a decent clip. It will obviously be a judgment call as to when he'd be in the game, but I don't think he's as frail as everyone thinks. He knows how to come off the bench and score some quick points from the outside, and he can sink his FT's. He's 6'7" and worth guarding at the perimeter, and he knows it.

A one-trick pony, maybe, but a trick that we do desperately need. Are the additions of two rookies, Gordon and Deng, and Nocioni (who played a mostly power game in Europe, apparently) enough to take Chicago from 17th in NBA in 3pt% (34.2%) significantly higher? On a team that's trying to build a serious inside presence, can we really be successful without outside shooters?

Pike can make a team pay for leaving him open. He's done that for his entire career.

In addition, Adrian Griffin is a rich man's Linton Johnson. As long as he doesn't shoot the ball as often as he sometimes does, I think he's a great length defender against the 2, and would provide some good d for Gordon and Hinrich and Deng to practice against.

And I agree that the cap space arguments are weak. These guys cost nearly peanuts; why are we looking for guys that can contribute for one year but then be gone by the next? We might as well keep Dikembe, if that's what we want; of guys that will be effective for one season and be a load off our books the next, he's probably among the best out there. Is there anyone better for Curry to practice against? And Mutombo has always been a teacher, his entire career; isn't that a better investment into our own player, Curry, than any one-year journeyman we might be able to find?

Pike and Griffin help us where we need help... we're not going to be able to get a guy like Voshon away from Denver. 

By the way, if we were looking for a taller, defensive SG that could be an average scorer... we should have kept Hassell. I know, I know, shoulda woulda coulda... but seriously.


----------



## L.O.B (Jun 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>DreamShake34</b>!
> 
> 
> You realize Moochie was traded to the Knicks, right?



We're Bulls fans, we're aware Moochie is a Knick and we're pretty happy he still is. 

BTW Robg, 

:laugh:


----------



## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Showtyme</b>!
> I think Pike and Griffin give us two halves of what we'd like to see in one player.


Piatkowski 37.7% FG, 35.3% 3Pt, 4.1 PPG, 49 games, 14.4 MPG
Adrian Griffin 27.8% FG, 50% 3Pt, 0.6 PPG, 19 games, 7 MPG

Yep, two halves of some kind of player.

But someone has to make up for Crawford's shots and scoring.


----------



## rosenthall (Aug 1, 2002)

I think I've reversed my opinion on a Deke for Pike deal.

As an individual move, I still think it'd be alright, but I think it might hurt us in the large scheme of things. Realistically, our expiring contracts aren't going to give us much, if any, room under the cap, if we plan on signing Eddy and Tyson. And IMO, I think management is planning on doing that. So realistically, the best way for us to use this 'flexibility' that we gained from the Jamal trade is to use all the expiring contracts to acquire a good player from a team that is looking to dump salary. 

So hence, I think it would be a good move to just keep Deke in case he would be needed in a trade for a big salary player, rather than trading him for another marginal player with an extra year on his contract, even if he may help us out a little more than Deke would. 

I suppose it's a bit of a risk, but Pike isn't very good anyway, so I think it makes a lot more sense to just hold out in hopes that we might be able to use Deke in a package for someone far more useful.


----------

