# Kobe is not human - Mamba Unleashed



## Phenom Z28 (Nov 22, 2004)

This dude is going nuts against the Blazers right now. I thought this game was over like a minute ago, they were down 7 but Kobe keeps on hitting clutch 3's like they're freethrows. 56 points and counting...


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## Phenom Z28 (Nov 22, 2004)

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Overtime....60 point game coming up.


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## essbee (Oct 30, 2006)

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i'm watching on fsn socal. lol @ the blazers defense


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## hroz (Mar 4, 2006)

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Insane tottally insane.
Kobe deserves a better side


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## Imdaman (Nov 29, 2006)

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I hope he has the energy for this overtime.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

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So Aldridge is now the starting center for the Blazers


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## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

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LA's got all the momentum going into OT but it'll be funny if they lose their 8th straight even w/ Kobe getting 60+.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

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Lol this Laker fans calling Kobe MVP, you have gotta be kidding me


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## Drewbs (Feb 16, 2004)

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Amazing performance no doubt.

Its embarrassing that Kobe needs to score 56 just so the Lakers can play in OT vs. the Blazers.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

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They might want to think about guarding Z-Bo


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

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This is like Kobe last year. The rest of his team doesn't show up and he has to shoot 30+ times just to keep them in games against bad to mediocre teams.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

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Why all the hate? The guy had a good game. Good for him.


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## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

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60!

Still a tie game. LA plays no D.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

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Kwame cant catch anything


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

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SPMJ said:


> 60!
> 
> Still a tie game. LA plays no D.


LA stinks. Without Kobe they would be the worst team in the NBA.


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## essbee (Oct 30, 2006)

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Randolph is a beast in the block. A round faced beast.

Kwame brown hands =


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## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

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Smush is an idiot. Whenever I think GOODEN stands alone as the league's dumbest player Smush does his best to change that.


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## Imdaman (Nov 29, 2006)

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Whats the most points scored by a single player the team still lost?


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## essbee (Oct 30, 2006)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



SPMJ said:


> Smush is an idiot. Whenever I think GOODEN stands alone as the league's dumbest player Smush does his best to change that.


Nah it's still Dalembert or Diop. They're both pretty un-smart.

lol fadeaway 3 pter over a double team.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

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Nobody on the Lakers can or will guard Zach Randolph.


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## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

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CLUTCH Zach.

Tie game!


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## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

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WOW...what an incredible shot.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

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63


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## Drewbs (Feb 16, 2004)

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Imagine how the rest of the Lakers are going to feel if they lose and have to endure Phil and Kobe's wrath in the locker room afterwards


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## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

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That's game. Kobe w/ the performance of the year.


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## Phenom Z28 (Nov 22, 2004)

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OMG :eek8: Kobe should be fined for taking that 3 and he freaking made it. In the zone...


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

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This Lakers team is BAD, just cant execute down the stretch


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## Bartholomew Hunt (Mar 4, 2003)

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I'm glad Kobe caught second wind because he's looked really tired lately. At this point, a first round matchup(if the Lakers even make it) will get really ugly.


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## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

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Still not over I guess. Kobe's gotta make both.


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## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

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Makes both. 65!


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## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

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...And it's over.


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## Pimped Out (May 4, 2005)

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lamarcus aldridge is 8 of 11 from the field and has another 10 rebound game with 3 blocks.

and kobe is having a pretty good game too, i guess


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## Bartholomew Hunt (Mar 4, 2003)

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So this is what it feels like to win.


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## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

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Kobe could not miss


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

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Pimped Out said:


> lamarcus aldridge is 8 of 11 from the field and has another 10 rebound game with 3 blocks.
> 
> and kobe is having a pretty good game too, i guess


That guy is going to be a stud


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## Phenom Z28 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



HB said:


> This Lakers team is BAD, just cant execute down the stretch


Yea...If Kobe would have scored 65 and they lost... I would just forfeit the rest of the season.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

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Every great player at their best is something special to watch, but I think Kobe sits at the top of my list when he is on his game. Most explosive scorer of all-time.


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## Bartholomew Hunt (Mar 4, 2003)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Nice to see the different wave of Kobe haters. Some manage to detract from this performance. The other "sneaky" haters just change the subject and talk about other players while making it a very distinct point not to mention Kobe's play. Either way, it's nice to win again.


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## Imdaman (Nov 29, 2006)

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Kobes last 3 pointer was disgusting.


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## Theonee (Dec 5, 2006)

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I am just happy that the Lakers snapped the loosing streak although it took 65 points from one person.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Bartholomew Hunt said:


> Nice to see the different wave of Kobe haters. Some manage to detract from this performance. The other "sneaky" haters just change the subject and talk about other players while making it a very distinct point not to mention Kobe's play. Either way, it's nice to win again.


Its not like Kobe doesnt put up huge scoring numbers on a regular basis. It doesnt surprise anyone anymore, at least not me.


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## yuyuza1 (May 24, 2006)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Further fuel to my fireball of hate against Kobe. But damn! 65pts! :clap:

Lamar Odom is a little punk ***** that needs to be suspended. Screw the Kobe elbow incidents. Did anyone see what Odom did to the young Blazers? Near the end of regulation, he started a pushing match with Jarrett Jack, and ran into the Blazers' huddle. LaMarcus Aldridge stopped him, and Odom just pushed him away, starting a scuffle with Kwame, Odom, and Jack, Aldridge. I can't tell you how proud I am of my Blazers tonight for not backing down from this guy. Rookies usually back down from these kinds of punks, but they've got some fire. 

To others who watched this game: look out for these tough Blazers. They're gonna' fight for a playoff spot next season. 

PS..the Blazers/Lakers rivalry never died.


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## Drewbs (Feb 16, 2004)

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Wow... 33 pts in the 4th and OT.

Thats obscene.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

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That boy can sure score the basketball good. He needs to leave LA and play for a team that matters.


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## hroz (Mar 4, 2006)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Blazers have a good young side but I gotta say Randolph is the Curry of PF he plays no D. (Though to be fair Zach is a better offensive player)

They will have a team to contend with in the next 5 years. Also Roy is the only really good thing from the draft.

I will say it again ROY FOR ROY


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## hroz (Mar 4, 2006)

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LOL Kobe and Garnett one needs to leave his team to join the other.


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## Aussie Baller (Oct 6, 2005)

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And now there's another game i have to download.

Damn you Kobe for stealing my bandwidth:curse:


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## jordan0386 (Jul 4, 2006)

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They call shots Kobe calls audibles


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## Pimped Out (May 4, 2005)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



hroz said:


> LOL Kobe and Garnett one needs to leave his team to join the other.


nah, kg needs to join yao and tmac.
kobe is welcome to come too.


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## Helvius (Jul 4, 2006)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

LA is and will always be a team that matters. If everyone's healthy enough, there's a good chance at least one person's team is going to be humbled come playoff time.


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## yuyuza1 (May 24, 2006)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



hroz said:


> Blazers have a good young side but I gotta say Randolph is the Curry of PF he plays no D. (Though to be fair Zach is a better offensive player)
> 
> They will have a team to contend with in the next 5 years. *Also Roy is the only really good thing from the draft.*
> I will say it again ROY FOR ROY



I'm sorry for my tone, but how the hell can you overlook Aldridge's performance tonight?!


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## yuyuza1 (May 24, 2006)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Helvius said:


> LA is and will always be a team that matters. If everyone's healthy enough, there's a good chance at least one person's team is going to be humbled come playoff time.



The "role players" on that team looked scared out of their shorts to even attempt a shot tonight. Kobe metaphorically has them on a leash, and I don't blame him.


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## Theonee (Dec 5, 2006)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Pimped Out said:


> nah, kg needs to join yao and tmac.
> kobe is welcome to come too.


That team has a chance to go unbeaten.


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## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Helvius said:


> LA is and will always be a team that matters. If everyone's healthy enough, there's a good chance at least one person's team is going to be humbled come playoff time.


If its the Lakers, Spurs, or Suns which it will be... I would say there isn't a good chance.


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## jordan0386 (Jul 4, 2006)

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30-19...then it went to hell and back...I'll be thankful for one win in the playoffs


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## Aussie Baller (Oct 6, 2005)

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Does this make Kobe the new scoring leader?


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## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Lakers team isn't bad just banged up Kwame, Evans and lamar are all hurt and forced to play, Lukes out, Vlad out, fully loaded and healthy we are good. Mj scored 50's and 60's and he had a championship team did that mean the Bulls sucked at the time.NO It says nothing of the quality of the Lakers team that he scored 65 points haters just trynna throw dirt on the performance. Kobe is just a legend in the making capable of sick scoring outbursts. 

Kobe is the only player in the league capable of playing like this not Lebron, Wade or Melo can score like he can when he has it going. AI is the closest guy who has that much variety in his offensive arsenal.


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## Theonee (Dec 5, 2006)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Aussie Baller said:


> Does this make Kobe the new scoring leader?


He has closed the the gap to 0.1 points with tonights performance.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Aussie Baller said:


> Does this make Kobe the new scoring leader?


He goes from 29.1 to 29.7 tonight. Melo is 29.8.


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## Helvius (Jul 4, 2006)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

I'd try to prevent comparing Allen Iverson to Kobe on any level, even if it's remotely true. It's like a ****-monster comes out of nowhere and makes whatever you're saying hard to chew.

Kobe's a great player; the same team almost beat the Suns last year and a miss from Tim Thomas would have likely done it. Definitely very easy to see how they could've been in the Western Conference Finals last year. So let's not get carried away with how bad the Lakers are.

Teams that are bad have no playoff chance. Once you're in the playoffs, it doesn't matter what seed you're at, or what quad-pod you're in. I really hate Kobe Bryant but I don't think anyone should think it'd be a cakewalk to face him when he's on the big stage and out to murder.


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## Aussie Baller (Oct 6, 2005)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Sir Patchwork said:


> He goes from 29.1 to 29.7 tonight. Melo is 29.8.


Do you know how much Melo needs to score tomorrow to hold his lead?


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## Drewbs (Feb 16, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



jazzy1 said:


> Lakers team isn't bad just banged up Kwame, Evans and lamar are all hurt and forced to play, Lukes out, Vlad out, fully loaded and healthy we are good. Mj scored 50's and 60's and he had a championship team did that mean the Bulls sucked at the time.NO *It says nothing of the quality of the Lakers team that he scored 65 points haters just trynna throw dirt on the performance.* Kobe is just a legend in the making capable of sick scoring outbursts.
> 
> Kobe is the only player in the league capable of playing like this not Lebron, Wade or Melo can score like he can when he has it going. AI is the closest guy who has that much variety in his offensive arsenal.


what yes it does. Kobe shared the ball with those scrubs en route to a 7 game skid. He dominates, and they still barely beat a bad team at home. The team until Lamar Odom came back, take Kobe off that roster and they belong in the d-league.


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## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Lamar Odom is back :whatever:


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## Helvius (Jul 4, 2006)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Err, you could say that about a lot of teams. Take Nash away from the Suns and you have a lot of talent that wouldn't win as many games. Take Garnett away from the Timberwolves... and they'd lose more? (???)

Anyway. Still crazy. Playoff team with a definite chance. Everyone acts like they can predict what's going to happen in June when squads make playoff runs. This isn't football (soccer) where there isn't a playoff and the #1 team is the team with the most points on the league table.

And if you can divine for me how this same team that did well last year will do this year, can you give me the next Powerball numbers too?


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## yuyuza1 (May 24, 2006)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Hibachi! said:


> Lamar Odom is back :whatever:


....as a little *****. What little respect I had for his game and ability to defer to Kobe, I lost after the **** he pulled.


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## Helvius (Jul 4, 2006)

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What'd he do?


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## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

No... But that's like saying Jackson St. had a chance to beat Florida because you never know what's going to happen to Florida... Yeah they have a "chance" But it's very very small... The Lakers have a very very small chance of beating any of the top 3 Western teams. I think that's pretty safe to say. You still forget that this game went to overtime, in their own house, against the Portland Trailblazers, and coming off of a 7 game losing streak and losing 13 of their last 16... It was a great performance, by a great player. But it doesn't translate to the teams chances.


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## Pimped Out (May 4, 2005)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Aussie Baller said:


> Do you know how much Melo needs to score tomorrow to hold his lead?


its not terribly difficult to look up the numbers on NBA.com and do the math yourself


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## Helvius (Jul 4, 2006)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Uh, that's a one game and you're out scenario that involves 65 teams in a division of twice as many. The selection process grants 31 conference bids, regardless of strength of schedule, conference strength or anything like that. 

It's impossible to find all 65 teams that deserve to be in the NCAA tournament based upon strength and who are truly the 1-65 teams. A comparison between something as unstable as the selection process and as stable as conference play, 82 games and a league table that determines seeding is a bit far-fetched.

We're talking about 16 professional teams composed of people who make millions of dollars, who have coaches who make millions of dollars on teams that rake in millions of dollars in a league that generates billions in TV revenue and what-not. There's a large difference. Mediocrity does exist in lower end teams and sometimes the 7 and 8 seeds.

That's not always the case, however. With seven game series, and a lot of them taking 6 and 7 games to complete, let's not get carried away. As I said - Lakers were a miracle shot from Tim Thomas away from drawing the Clippers.

The same team, the same core, the same crazy mother ****er who torches and the best dynasty coach? Meh. We're getting crazy to be saying the Lakers don't have a respective chance.


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## yuyuza1 (May 24, 2006)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Helvius said:


> What'd he do?



see post #42


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## Aussie Baller (Oct 6, 2005)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Pimped Out said:


> its not terribly difficult to look up the numbers on NBA.com and do the math yourself


numbers? NBA.com? Math? Yourself?


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## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



yuyuza1 said:


> Further fuel to my fireball of hate against Kobe. But damn! 65pts! :clap:
> 
> Lamar Odom is a little punk ***** that needs to be suspended. Screw the Kobe elbow incidents. Did anyone see what Odom did to the young Blazers? Near the end of regulation, he started a pushing match with Jarrett Jack, and ran into the Blazers' huddle. LaMarcus Aldridge stopped him, and Odom just pushed him away, starting a scuffle with Kwame, Odom, and Jack, Aldridge. I can't tell you how proud I am of my Blazers tonight for not backing down from this guy. Rookies usually back down from these kinds of punks, but they've got some fire.
> 
> ...


That's because Jack elbowed Lamar on their way back to the huddle. Odom got in Jacks face as he was walking back. Jack got annoyed and gave him a shot the chest sort of. Then Lamar went after him. Both were ***** moves.


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## Eternal (Sep 7, 2005)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

If Lakers can get Walton back and stay healthy, as well as the rest of their roster, the team can beat anyone.

Chances of that happenining though is slim to none, as they haven't been healthy all year... and it looks like Walton is laboring again with his right ankle.


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## ElMarroAfamado (Nov 1, 2005)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

i didnt start watching the game till OT why was their no commentators and why where they using a Floor cam?


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## DaBruins (Jul 30, 2003)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

The Lakers can still have a chance to make noise in the playoffs if we're healthy. And that means having Kwame, Luke, Odom all at 100% and possibly even Vlad Rad if he returns in time. I don't think we can beat Dallas or SA, but I do think we can push Phx pretty hard and beat Utah when we're healthy.

Edit: Actually I take that back, we always play the top teams tough and I think we can easily be up 2-1 or 3-2 in a series with any of the top 4 teams. But we usually get tired as the series goes along and then we put up a couple dumps on the court.


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## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

The Lakers go from "The worst team in the NBA" to being able to beat any team in the playoffs in the span of 1 game where Kobe needed to 65 to beat the Trailblazers at home. Love it...


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## jordan0386 (Jul 4, 2006)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Only team Lakers can beat in a seven game series right now...is the Rockets, besides Yao, thats a very even roster to roster comparison...Kobe/Tmac do their things, Yao is no different from Dirk, get tough with him, and you can knock them out their elements for 4-5 minutes...hopefully, that would happen in the 4th

Every other possible opponent...Lakers HAVE NO CHANCE

Understand it would take every game to be 88/88 with 3 minutes to go, and you can just give Kobe the ball...but the lakers are not capable of that type of defense...So, its realistic to only expect one playoff win this year


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## LameR (Jan 4, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Ridiculous performance in multiple ways. That stiff-arm on Roy at the end was a really surprising no-call to me (and most Blazer fans I'd assume). Regardless, 65 points is still 65 points.


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## hroz (Mar 4, 2006)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



jordan0386 said:


> Only team Lakers can beat in a seven game series right now...is the Rockets, besides Yao, thats a very even roster to roster comparison...Kobe/Tmac do their things, Yao is no different from Dirk, get tough with him, and you can knock them out their elements for 4-5 minutes...hopefully, that would happen in the 4th
> 
> Every other possible opponent...Lakers HAVE NO CHANCE


Okay guys whats with the Rockets bashing?
The Rockets have been in the top 5 for almost the whole season they have done it for the most part without Yao who was on a MVP season. They shouldnt be considered in the class of Mavs Suns or Spurs yet but they are a threat for the championship. They are now 5-2 with the return of Yao and as Yao gets fitter, beating the Rockets will get harder. They should finish with a 52-53 like record. And as long as they dont run into the Suns along the way they could be champions.
PS Lakers have a chance against Rockets but not Nuggets or Warriors??????????????

PPS to the guy who asked about Aldrige he has not played enough consistently to be considered a good thing out of the draft.Not his fault he has had next to no minutes. At this point Roy is the only good thing out of this draft. But like Deron Williams has burst out in his second year many others might too from this draft.


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## Lynx (Mar 6, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

:worship:

Happy St. Patrick's Day everyone!


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## DuMa (Dec 25, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

65 points used to be exciting. now when Kobe does it, its like yawn... its expected. cuz you know he'll just shoot and shoot and shoot and shoot. its the only way he knows how to play. and when hes hot, they still have to go overtime.


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## Brandon Real (Mar 14, 2006)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Maybe it's expected from him. But c'mon man, 65 points on over 50% shooting with unbelievable fading 3-pointers is always a joy to watch.


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## SoCalfan21 (Jul 19, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



hroz said:


> Okay guys whats with the Rockets bashing?
> The Rockets have been in the top 5 for almost the whole season they have done it for the most part without Yao who was on a MVP season. They shouldnt be considered in the class of Mavs Suns or Spurs yet but they are a threat for the championship. They are now 5-2 with the return of Yao and as Yao gets fitter, beating the Rockets will get harder. They should finish with a 52-53 like record. And as long as they dont run into the Suns along the way they could be champions.
> PS Lakers have a chance against Rockets but not Nuggets or Warriors??????????????
> 
> PPS to the guy who asked about Aldrige he has not played enough consistently to be considered a good thing out of the draft.Not his fault he has had next to no minutes. At this point Roy is the only good thing out of this draft. But like Deron Williams has burst out in his second year many others might too from this draft.


Its not Rockets bashing. We lead the season series with almost all the top teams in the West...Chill...


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## ztpc_lukui (Mar 3, 2006)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

he is super ,he is crazy ,he is supercrazy.
-quoted from WWE


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## afobisme (Apr 29, 2006)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

we were playing great earlier in the season, and now we're having a major slump. who's to say that we can't go back to our old form when it's playoffs time? so why are we so bad then? im thinking it's just haters hating.

the team is playing really uninspired, but we have also sustained a bunch of major injuries to our 2nd and 3rd best players (odom and walton). i think we have a decent chance to upset any of the top 3 teams, though i fear the suns most.


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## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Disagree with anything pro-Lakers and you're just a hater... Funny how that works out.


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## TiMVP2 (Jun 19, 2003)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

damn if it takes 65 points by kobe to beat the blazers in overtime by a small margin,then that team is in deep deep ****




> And on top of that, him and his wanna-be gangster buddies Lamar Odom and Kwame Brown, attempted to start a fight with the Blazers, as the three went and entered Portlands huddle at a timeout!


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## Aussie Baller (Oct 6, 2005)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Hibachi! said:


> The Lakers go from "The worst team in the NBA" to being able to beat any team in the playoffs in the span of 1 game where Kobe needed to 65 to beat the Trailblazers at home. Love it...


But look at the stats, over the last 8 games Kobe has averaged 65 points and the Lakers haven't lost in their most recent of those 8 games. Now those are some serious MVP and title contender numbers.


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## BallStateCards (Oct 14, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

I always regret my semi-annual visit to the NBA board...

1) Portland fans complaining about sportsmanship ranks in the upper echelon in the history of pro sports hypocrisy.

2) What's with all the Lakers bashing? Sure they haven't played great recently, but they didn't last year either, and caught everyone by surprise in the playoffs. If Tim THomas didn't suddenly start giving **** about basketball, who knows what would have happened last season. Sure the Lake show ultimately lost, but counting out Phil Jackson and Kobe Bryant's ability in the postseason has gotta be one of the least intelligent things an NBA fan could ever do. Hell, is there any other player in the league who could singlehandedly win a gmae for his squad?

3) DuMa, it must have been hard for you to be a Kobe hater these last couple seasons. Good luck with that.


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## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Kobe's tried to take over games and will LA to wins for a while over the last few weeks. But he couldn't. Last night he actually made his shots. This was the FIRST game he shot at least 50% since February 23. His fg% has fallen from near-.500(uncharacteristic to being with for him) to in the mid 40s over the last month. On a bad defensive team you're simply not going to get it done shooting low percentages. Speaking of D, last night was the first time I saw Kobe playing it in abt a month.


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## Jizzy (Aug 24, 2005)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Wow, the Lakers are falling apart.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



R-Star said:


> LA stinks. Without Kobe they would be the worst team in the NBA.


They're 3-2 without him this year, and 3-1 when they have both Walton and Odom playing.


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## Spaceman Spiff (Aug 2, 2006)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Can't be a good sign if you need 65 to beat Portland at home. But great game by Kobe. I could've sworn that was the Holy Ghost in the building in the form of Kobe Bryant.


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## jooxunit (Mar 15, 2007)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

the dude is unreal. He is the best basketball player on the face of the earth. And when I say that, I'm not syaing he would be able to take anyone 1 on 1, but he is the best basketball player on the planet. I always want the ball in his hands in a clutch situation and last night proved why. The man hit 5 three pointer's in a row to carry his team with 65 points and get them out of their 7 game skid. He defines poetry in motion in the NBA.


----------



## Theonee (Dec 5, 2006)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Although, I am a huge Bryant and Lakers fans, I wouldn't read too much into yesterday's game. It is just one game and I am just glad that the Lakers won. At this point of the season every win is important. I don't care how they win it and who they beat, as long as I see a W.
P.S Hibachi, you are not a hater, I have read lots of your post and you are an unbiased basketball fan.


----------



## Burn (Feb 2, 2003)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Haha, he's on my fantasy team so I just checked his stats for the game. Scrolling down to see 65 pts, lordy!


----------



## cadarn (Feb 1, 2006)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

If that pushoff had been called it would be 8 in a row.


----------



## yuyuza1 (May 24, 2006)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



BallStateCards said:


> I always regret my semi-annual visit to the NBA board...
> 
> 1) Portland fans complaining about sportsmanship ranks in the upper echelon in the history of pro sports hypocrisy.
> 2) What's with all the Lakers bashing? Sure they haven't played great recently, but they didn't last year either, and caught everyone by surprise in the playoffs. If Tim THomas didn't suddenly start giving **** about basketball, who knows what would have happened last season. Sure the Lake show ultimately lost, but counting out Phil Jackson and Kobe Bryant's ability in the postseason has gotta be one of the least intelligent things an NBA fan could ever do. Hell, is there any other player in the league who could singlehandedly win a gmae for his squad?
> ...


Can't you let go of the past? We have a good core of players now who don't complain anywhere as much as the players of old. What Odom did constitutes as Bush League play. You can't deny it.


----------



## Bartholomew Hunt (Mar 4, 2003)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*


----------



## Tragedy (Dec 9, 2002)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Damian Necronamous said:


> They're 3-2 without him this year, and 3-1 when they have both Walton and Odom playing.


Thank goodness for small sample sizes!!!


----------



## Phenom Z28 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Theonee said:


> Although, I am a huge Bryant and Lakers fans, I wouldn't read too much into yesterday's game. It is just one game and I am just glad that the Lakers won. At this point of the season every win is important. I don't care how they win it and who they beat, as long as I see a W.
> P.S Hibachi, you are not a hater, I have read lots of your post and you are an unbiased basketball fan.


For real... I don't know why people can't take it for what it is. It was a special performance by a great player.


----------



## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

It is amazing how flippant and unappreciative people are about a feat that no current player has done and something that has only been done by two other players in the past 20 years. But hey, it was just another game for Kobe.


----------



## Jordan23Forever (May 14, 2005)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Hibachi! said:


> The Lakers go from "The worst team in the NBA" to being able to beat any team in the playoffs in the span of 1 game where Kobe needed to 65 to beat the Trailblazers at home. Love it...


Exactly.


----------



## AllEyezonTX (Nov 16, 2006)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Kobe was throwing into the pacific ocean last night, no other way to explain it


----------



## 23isback (Mar 15, 2006)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Can you imagine Kobe on the Suns? Omfg.


----------



## Tragedy (Dec 9, 2002)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



cadarn said:


> If that pushoff had been called it would be 8 in a row.


yea and Jordan would not have hit that gamewinner. get over it.


----------



## DuMa (Dec 25, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



23isback said:


> Can you imagine Kobe on the Suns? Omfg.


yeah a suns team that goes nowhere in the regular season and in the playoffs. what a great thing to watch.


----------



## Phenom Z28 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



DuMa said:


> yeah a suns team that goes nowhere in the regular season and in the playoffs. what a great thing to watch.


Coming from a Rockets fan?


----------



## One on One (Dec 12, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Considering Kobe has scored over 60 three times, including an 81 point game, I really think he has proven to be a better scorer than MJ was, although better overall player is still debatable.


----------



## Phenom Z28 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



One on One said:


> *Considering Kobe has scored over 60 three times*, including an 81 point game, I really think he has *proven to be a better scorer than MJ was*, *although better overall player is still debatable.*


:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


----------



## Drewbs (Feb 16, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



One on One said:


> Considering Kobe has scored over 60 three times, including an 81 point game, I really think he has proven to be a better scorer than MJ was, although better overall player is still debatable.


Kobe will never be considered the defensive player Mike was. 

His defense has been equally horrendous with the rest of his team for the past few months.


----------



## unluckyseventeen (Feb 5, 2006)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



One on One said:


> Considering Kobe has scored over 60 three times, including an 81 point game, I really think he has proven to be a better scorer than MJ was, although better overall player is still debatable.


I must also laugh at this statement. HA!


----------



## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

People forget that MJ shot over 50% from the field almost every year while scoring at such a high clip. Something Kobe has never been able to do... But to the point of this thread...

Kobe was unstoppable last night. So unstoppable that every time he touched the ball, you knew it was going up, and you knew it was going in . Not only did you know it was going in, but you knew it wasn't hitting rim either. It was absolutely incredible. I had a guy rooting against the Lakers next to me while we were all watching the game. He got mad that Randolph sagged off of Kobe for the game-tying three to send it into OT. I just looked at him and said "Dude... It wouldn't have even mattered" He was just on last night...


----------



## Phenom Z28 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Hibachi! said:


> People forget that MJ shot over 50% from the field almost every year while scoring at such a high clip. Something Kobe has never been able to do... But to the point of this thread...
> 
> Kobe was unstoppable last night. So unstoppable that every time he touched the ball, you knew it was going up, and you knew it was going in . Not only did you know it was going in, but you knew it wasn't hitting rim either. It was absolutely incredible. I had a guy rooting against the Lakers next to me while we were all watching the game. He got mad that Randolph sagged off of Kobe for the game-tying three to send it into OT. I just looked at him and said "Dude... It wouldn't have even mattered" He was just on last night...


Yea, he could have been quadruple teamed...it would have been the same result. That last 3-pointer of the game is one of those shots that I don't think I'll ever forget. In fact I'll probably try to immitate it at the gym


----------



## Jordan23Forever (May 14, 2005)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Kobe is most certainly not the offensive player that Jordan was. At his absolute peak, Kobe is a more explosive scorer than anyone I've ever seen (including Jordan), but that absolute peak only happens perhaps 2-3 times each season. The other important aspects of scoring -- consistency and efficiency -- are where Kobe falls well short of Jordan. Jordan was also a more skilled offensive player (though I'm sure some Kobe-loving clod who never saw prime Jordan will try to debate me on this). Kobe is almost as skilled as Jordan in terms of his mid-range game, footwork, and setting up his shot with the ball. Where he falls well short imo is in terms of off-the-ball movement and reading/reacting to defenses, where Jordan was without peer. I also feel that his post game isn't nearly as polished as Jordan's was (in terms of establishing/maintaining position, post footwork, number of moves/counters etc.), but he has time to perfect that. The gap in offensive skill isn't large by any means -- perhaps 10% if I had to quantify it -- but it's perceptible. That said, Kobe is one of the 3 most skilled non-big scorers I've ever seen along with Jordan and Bird, and certainly belongs in any discussion of the most skilled scorers of all-time.


----------



## Theonee (Dec 5, 2006)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

No one can be compared to Jordan. There is Jordan and the rest. But as far as offensive game is concerned, I think Kobe is closest thing to Jordan. Although this is just my opinion.


----------



## Phenom Z28 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Theonee said:


> No one can be compared to Jordan. There is Jordan and the rest. But as far as offensive game is concerned, I think Kobe is closest thing to Jordan. Although this is just my opinion.


 I can somewhat agree with this statement. Just because Kobe's scored 60+ 3 times doesn't even come close to proving he's a better scorer. I mean Jordan did it like a half dozen times and scored more points than Kobe on a much more consistant basis.

And any debate about Kobe's overall game approaching MJ's will have the same value as broccoli tasting better than baby back ribs.


----------



## ElMarroAfamado (Nov 1, 2005)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

no matter what someone does, well especially Kobe (nothing he can do), no one is ever going to say someone is better in any aspect than Jordan ever....even if someone does come along that does more i doubt people will admit it ...**** he is out the league already people should just really get over it.....


----------



## hroz (Mar 4, 2006)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Jordan more consistent as a scorer. Look at his ppg through all years.


----------



## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



MemphisX said:


> It is amazing how flippant and unappreciative people are about a feat that no current player has done and something that has only been done by two other players in the past 20 years. But hey, it was just another game for Kobe.


That's what happens when the most explosive scorer of all-time is also the most hated player in the league. It makes people justify why it isn't that great instead of looking at it for what it is. It's history, and even though 65 in an overtime game isn't as impressive as say, 62 in three quarters or 81 in 41 minutes, it's still ridiculous. We've just been spoiled.


----------



## Air Jordan 23 (Dec 12, 2006)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



One on One said:


> Considering Kobe has scored over 60 three times, including an 81 point game, I really think he has proven to be a better scorer than MJ was, although better overall player is still debatable.



You're kiddin', right?

Just because he scored 81 against the Craptors?

Get back at me when Kobe does that against the top teams in the League, especially on the road, on a regular basis.

You realize most of MJ's top scoring games were against quality teams ON THE ROAD, right?

And it's not even debatable who was the overall better player. That would be MJ.


----------



## Eternal (Sep 7, 2005)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Air Jordan 23 said:


> You're kiddin', right?
> 
> Just because he scored 81 against the Craptors?
> 
> ...


I guess you forgot what he did to Dallas last year (62 pts in 3 qtrs), which he probably would've scored even more pts in the Dallas game, if he didn't sit out the whole 4th quarter.


----------



## Eternal (Sep 7, 2005)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



hroz said:


> Jordan more consistent as a scorer. Look at his ppg through all years.


Well you have to take into affect Kobe was coming off the bench for the longest at the beginning of his career too, compared to Jordan. That said though Kobe really has no chance to come close to what Jordan did throughout his career.


----------



## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

The Jordan comparisons need to stop. Kobe had a great game and leave it at that but by trying to claim that another 60 point game makes Kobe the equal to Jordan is silly.

Jordan in his prime not only scored 30+ppg his TS% was over .600. Jordan worst TS% when he averaged greater then 30 ppg was .580.

Kobe's best season in terms of scoring efficiency EVER was .563. What made Jordan so special was that he was a bulk scorer who was also efficient


----------



## Eternal (Sep 7, 2005)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Anyone making comparisons of Kobe to Jordan is rediculous. Kobe has a long way to go, in order to reach Jordan's level.


----------



## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

You can put up all the TS% this and the eFG% that but Kobe is comparable to MJ and I would say almost his equal. The NBA was totally different especially during Jordan's early years when regular season defense was a basic drive through with no contact. Also, Kobe's game is more 3pter than Jordan. D Wade has the Jordan type game of driving relentlessly and getting to the line. 

I actually *watched* most of Jordan's career and he was better but not this otherworldly better ppeople keep trying to pimp on message boards and the media.


----------



## DaBruins (Jul 30, 2003)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Kobe was amazing last night, and of course amazing in all his huge scoring games. But I think my favorite Kobe moment came a few years back when we were fighting to be the #1 team in the Pacific Division. We had to win @Portland in the last game of the season (this was about 3 years back), and here it was:

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/k56E-3Sf0Fg"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/k56E-3Sf0Fg" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

2 crazy 3pointers to win the game. The 1st of the 2 was my favorite. Kobe Stopper? Hahahah.


----------



## Phenom Z28 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Eternal said:


> Well you have to take into affect Kobe was coming off the bench for the longest at the beginning of his career too, compared to Jordan. That said though Kobe really has no chance to come close to what Jordan did throughout his career.


 I dunno about the other guy, I was referring to game-to-game. You could gaurantee 30 points any time he stepped on the court he was that consistant... But to me that doesn't really matter, what made Jordan different was you KNEW he would score if the Bulls needed him to, otherwise they'd do the team concept thing to keep everyone involved. That's why the ball went into Jordan in the 4th quarter in close games because there was such a higher chance of him scoring than running any manufactured set play. Although it's smart for the Lakers to go to Kobe in the 4th too, I don't think Kobe has reached that area of offensive greatness where he can create for himself and score on the reliable and consistant basis Jordan could... But when Kobe is on like he was against Portland in the 4th/OT, Jordan couldn't touch him in terms of sheer scoring explosiveness.


----------



## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



MemphisX said:


> You can put up all the TS% this and the eFG% that but Kobe is comparable to MJ and I would say almost his equal. The NBA was totally different especially during Jordan's early years when regular season defense was a basic drive through with no contact. Also, Kobe's game is more 3pter than Jordan. D Wade has the Jordan type game of driving relentlessly and getting to the line.
> 
> I actually *watched* most of Jordan's career and he was better but not this otherworldly better ppeople keep trying to pimp on message boards and the media.


Guess what you're not the only whose watched both the entire career of both Jordan and Kobe. Jordan is a more efficient scorer while being a great bulk scorer as well. What's funny is you bring up Wade who is a lot more like Jordan then kobe is. You're telling me a Wade who is two inches taller and could actually jump higher wouldn't be the best player in the NBA particulay since Wade was playing like the best player in the league was when he went down?


----------



## Jordan23Forever (May 14, 2005)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Pioneer10 said:


> Guess what you're not the only whose watched both the entire career of both Jordan and Kobe. Jordan is a more efficient scorer while being a great bulk scorer as well. What's funny is you bring up Wade who is a lot more like Jordan then kobe is. You're telling me a Wade who is two inches taller and could actually jump higher wouldn't be the best player in the NBA particulay since Wade was playing like the best player in the league was when he went down?


Two inches taller...and with a much better jumper from 20 feet and in...and with much better defense...and much more clutch...and a better post and off-the-ball game. Yeah, it's no stretch to suggest that he'd be the best in the league.


----------



## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

I love how the Jordan people talk about these days is nothing close to the Jordan that actually took the court for the Bulls. It's like people substitute "Jordan" for "Ideal NBA player that doesn't and never has existed". It's like it's a sin to say anything negative about him, or even entertain the idea that someone is on his level or (gasp) superior to him in any aspect of basketball.


----------



## Kuskid (Aug 18, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

This stuff is actually funny to read sometimes. Kobe can't just play a great game and do things on the court that no one else on the planet is capable of doing right now, he either has to be the GOAT or a punk who stat pads while carrying his squad to wins over lesser teams. Get over it. If you don't think this game was special, but you still don't think you're a hater, you're kidding yourself. If one huge scoring outburst is just an opportunity for you to argue that Kobe's the greatest ever, you're just as bad.


----------



## Jordan23Forever (May 14, 2005)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



hobojoe said:


> I love how the Jordan people talk about these days is nothing close to the Jordan that actually took the court for the Bulls. It's like people substitute "Jordan" for "Ideal NBA player that doesn't and never has existed". It's like it's a sin to say anything negative about him, or even entertain the idea that someone is on his level or (gasp) superior to him in any aspect of basketball.


Nice strawman. Care to elaborate on what people are saying about Jordan which is so outlandish?

It wouldn't be crazy to suggest that someone was on his level if, you know, _someone were on his level_.


And Kobe's a far better 3-point shooter than Jordan ever was, so there goes your last "point" (if you can call it that).


----------



## SickGame (Jan 23, 2006)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

The man just dropped 65!
THINK ABOUT IT FOR A SECOND. Has anyone here played basketball? Do you know how hard it is to score 65 points?! And the fact that's done it three times in over a year's worth of basketball?
Just appreciate it for a second.
If it were Nash, we'd be praising the man with canadian flags and chest hair. But if it's Kobe...pfft, the man's a hog, a chucker etc.. etc..

In terms of the Jordan comparison? Jordan was a better scorer in terms of understanding where to be, what to do etc.. He was a smart player than Kobe. Kobe's shot selection can be poor at times, even though he might be hot as a pistol. Kobe is an explosive scorer and the best one today's generation, but I still feel that Jordan was a better overall player on the offensive side. But it isn't anything drastic that some people make it to be.

Kobe's an INCREDIBLE scorer when he's hot. There is no one like him in the league today and really hasn't been in history either than Jordan when it comes to swingmen.


----------



## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Pioneer10 said:


> Jordan in his prime not only scored 30+ppg his TS% was over .600. Jordan worst TS% when he averaged greater then 30 ppg was .580.
> 
> Kobe's best season in terms of scoring efficiency EVER was .563. What made Jordan so special was that he was a bulk scorer who was also efficient


I would really like to see Kobe in the Jordan era. Basketball was different in the late 80s, early 90s.


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## Tragedy (Dec 9, 2002)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Premier said:


> I would really like to see Kobe in the Jordan era. Basketball was different in the late 80s, early 90s.


That would be SICK.

People forget that Jordan was often bigger and stronger than those who guarded him, and played in an era where the average player was much smaller, and there was not nearly as much parity as today's game.

Playing against 6'2, 6'3 shooting guards, and having smaller players 1-5 is much different than todays game of giants where 6'2 6'3 sgs wont get much time and are converted to pgs.

Then a team Kobe would be on would have an easier time putting stars around him, with no salary cap LA can load up.

While Jordan won 6 rings, he certainly did not do it alone, and had many quality players around him. Don't forget how Jordan fared when he had teams with lesser talent. People like to say Jordan didn't start winning until he expanded his game. NO. He didn't start winning until he had the future HOFer Scottie Pippen and guys like Horace Grant and others playing with him.


----------



## compsciguy78 (Dec 16, 2002)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

I think Kobe is a better scorer then Jordan!

Jordan was a better winner, but Kobe is a better distance shooter then Jordan. Kobe's abilities from 3 point land and his bigger size make him harder to defend. 


Kobe is simply amazing but nobody wants to give him props because his kind of a loser....hahahaha
It's not like he doesn't want to win he just doesn't understand team chemistry as good as the old school guys.

Peace


----------



## Jizzy (Aug 24, 2005)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Ridiculous.

MJ would go on the road, in crucial games and carry his team. Remember in the Finals against the Suns in the game clinching game, he scored the entire Bulls points in the 4th quarter? MJ also played with terrible bigs. Outside of Grant and Cartwright...Perdue? Wennington? King? He alone had the Bulls in title contention unlike Kobe.

Sorry but until Kobe wins a ring without Shaq, he's not even close to MJ.


----------



## Jizzy (Aug 24, 2005)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Tragedy said:


> That would be SICK.
> 
> People forget that Jordan was often bigger and stronger than those who guarded him, and played in an era where the average player was much smaller, and there was not nearly as much parity as today's game.
> 
> ...



LOL. Others? Horace Grant, Paxson, Pippen, who?


----------



## Jizzy (Aug 24, 2005)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Premier said:


> I would really like to see Kobe in the Jordan era. Basketball was different in the late 80s, early 90s.



Kobe could get away with that cheap elbow thing he does.


----------



## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Tragedy said:


> Playing against 6'2, 6'3 shooting guards, and having smaller players 1-5 is much different than todays game of giants where 6'2 6'3 sgs wont get much time and are converted to pgs.


Uhh...the average height today is no different than it was during Jordan's era. 

People who question what MJ would do in today's league probably never watched him play in his prime or didn't pay much attention when he was a Wizard putting up numbers at 40 that only T-Mac and Kobe were. In 01-02 MJ at 39 was averaging *26/6/5* at the AS break. Only LeBron James averages 26/6/5 in the NBA today. In 01-02 only T-Mac and Kobe did. A 39 year old w/ bum knees and coming off a 3 year break was putting up numbers that only the league's TOP 5 players were/are doing. One more stat: After turning 40 in February of '03 MJ finished his final season in the NBA averaging *23/7/5 on 46%* shooting. Yeah, I really wonder how prime MJ would fare in today's "bigger and stronger" league when he was dominating at 40 :laugh: :lol:.

In his 2 year stint as a Wizard MJ was a Top 10-15 player in the league. 88-93 MJ today would undoubtebly duplicate his prime numbers and in fact better 'em under the new rules. GOD, I feel sorry for anyone who'd have to guard a 27 year old MJ under the current defensive rules. The only teams who somewhat contained MJ during his hey days(Riley's Knicks and the Bad Boys) did it through ridiculous handchecking and physical play. NBA doesn't even allow 5% of that anymore.

Bottomline: The GOAT dominated the league like nobody else during a time when the highest level of basketball was played. It was the Dream Team era. To consider today's league superior is laughable. MJ went up against superior teams and much superior defenses.


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## Jizzy (Aug 24, 2005)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Exactly!

The Pistons had to literrally throw him to the ground and grab his arms to contain the man. Kobe does it to other players!

Good post, SPMJ.


----------



## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

I'm not understanding some things here... For the longest time on the board we've been talking about how soft the NBA is today. How easy it is to draw a foul. How easy it is to drive the lane. How easy it is without handchecking. How easy it is with all the flopping. How easy it is when a hard foul is now a flagrant so hard fouls aren't committed. Then I'm reading some people talking about the Jordan era being softer... The Jordan era being easier to score in... Talk about mixed messages...

Here's some food for though...
Jordan- 6 Championships
Kobe - 3
Jordan - 6 NBA Finals MVP's (This one's a key one, it shows who was most important to their championship run)
Kobe - 0
Jordan - 5 Regular Season MVP's
Kobe - 0
Jordan - 1 DPOY
Kobe - 0
Jordan - #1 in scoring average all time
Kobe - Not sure what number he is, but if you aint first, your last
Jordan - 10 Time Scoring Leader
Kobe - 1

Just some numbers to throw out there when people talk about Jordan being overrated...


----------



## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Pioneer10 said:


> The Jordan comparisons need to stop. Kobe had a great game and leave it at that but by trying to claim that another 60 point game makes Kobe the equal to Jordan is silly.
> 
> Jordan in his prime not only scored 30+ppg his TS% was over .600. Jordan worst TS% when he averaged greater then 30 ppg was .580.
> 
> Kobe's best season in terms of scoring efficiency EVER was .563. What made Jordan so special was that he was a bulk scorer who was also efficient


Compare Jordan's numbers to other All Star level SGs in the league, his disparity was not that great.

Just a sample season of 1990-91:

Jordan 54% FG 55% eFG 61% TS%
Drexler 48% FG 51% eFG 56% TS%
Richmond 49% FG 51% eFG 57% TS%
Miller 51% FG 56% eFG 65% TS%
Alvin Robertson 49% FG 50% eFG 54% TS%
Hersey Hawkins 47% FG 52% eFG 59% TS%
Dumars 48% FG 49% eFG 55% TS%
Tim Hardaway 48% FG 51% eFG 55% TS%


----------



## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Premier said:


> I would really like to see Kobe in the Jordan era. Basketball was different in the late 80s, early 90s.


 Wouldn't make a difference in terms of scoring efficiency

To normalize I took a look at how high each player ranked in terms of scoring efficiency compared to his peers rather then the absolute number.

Kobe
Year PPFGA rank
(this year) somewhere in the 40's (41st by knickerblogger)
4-5 61st
3-4 41st
2-3 67th
1-2 80th

Jordan
96-7 55th
95-6 46st (jordan age 33)

91-2 29th
90-1 19th
89-0 16th
88-9 8th
87-8 15th
86-7 56th

To lead the league in scoring and being ranked consistently in the top 20 in terms of efficiency on top of that is ridiculous. Now I think if you split Jordan's career into two then it become interesting. Jordan was incredible before his first retirement and while his legacy was cemented with his first comeback the numbers bear out he wasn't the same player as a 30+ year old player. Kobe compares favorably with the comeback Jordan but not the young Jordan (Kobe's age is currently the same as the real "prime" Jordan)


----------



## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



MemphisX said:


> Compare Jordan's numbers to other All Star level SGs in the league, his disparity was not that great.
> 
> Just a sample season of 1990-91:
> 
> ...


 Umm see my previous post in terms of ranking in terms of efficiency and the disparity becomes obvious

Jesus just look at what you posted Drexler a first ballot HOF and Jordan not only outscored a prime Drexler but put up a 5 point difference in TS%


----------



## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Ahem... You guys do know that Jordan played in the one-on-one defense system, right?

That he never had to face a zone defense (unless you're counting his Wizard years...), right?


----------



## magohaydz (Dec 21, 2005)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



MemphisX said:


> Compare Jordan's numbers to other All Star level SGs in the league, his disparity was not that great.
> 
> Just a sample season of 1990-91:
> 
> ...


shooting % doesnt win any argument for me.


----------



## compsciguy78 (Dec 16, 2002)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Jordan dominating at 40 years old...hahaha

He was good and probably bottom tier all-star. People kind of took it easy on him and the whole league was afraid of his *** because he was MJ the greatest icon of his era.

You can't take anything away from Jordan because we are not comparing who was the best basketball player because that goes to Jordan. 

But who is the best scorer???

Pound for pound its probably Kobe. Jordan never dropped 81 and Jordan couldn't shoot the 3 like Kobe. Sorry folks those are the facts. Kobe could average 40 ppg if he wanted.

Peace


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## Jizzy (Aug 24, 2005)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Hopeless.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Jordan23Forever said:


> It wouldn't be crazy to suggest that someone was on his level if, you know, _someone were on his level_.


Statistically, there are players on his level if we're talking the 90's Jordan, and especially if we're talking the Jordan of the 2nd 3-peat. 

I agree with the notion that people are far too sensitive about Jordan's legacy. It's not that anyone has been better, it's the fact that even entertaining a comparison leads to people getting emotional. He has the most guarded legacy ever and I don't know why. I guess the same reason that 80's folks hold Bird and Magic close to their heart.


----------



## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Kobe and his antics, along with the emergence the past couple seasons of monster perimeter scorers like Arenas and Melo (and even Redd), has served to greatly de-sensitize us to scoring outbursts. It's almost like we expect them at this point. Remember when 40 point games were seen as a fairly big deal, much less 50 point games (how many times have people brought up Tony Delk once scoring 50?)? Those are almost seen as irrelevant and "passe" now. You almost have to score 70 points to make people notice at this point, literally. Kobe already has 40 points tonight with 8 minutes left in the 4th, after putting up 65 last night, and it's possibly the least surprising or notable event ever. He could end up with 50 and the win and it's like... so?


----------



## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Arenas dropped 60 earlier in the season, and it wasn't even that big a deal.


----------



## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

And with the way Kobe is putting the ball in the hoop right now, Carmelo can probably kiss his scoring title goodbye.


----------



## Husstla (Nov 5, 2006)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Back to back 50s....damn...don't see that often


----------



## Yao Mania (Aug 4, 2003)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

T'Wolves thought they were still in the game, gave Kobe his chance for the 50 by stopping the clock with fouls.

But yah, back to back 50+, 115 points in 2 games... the Black Mamba strikes again.


----------



## Phenom Z28 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Husstla said:


> Back to back 50s....damn...don't see that often


 Last time I remember was Antawn Jamison... I guess Kobe is consistent 

BTW was anyone else a little wierded out by the espn broadcast? I dunno...something about the commentators and the environment seemed a little strange.


----------



## Theonee (Dec 5, 2006)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Now Kobe leads the league in scoring with little over 30 ppg, and Carmelo is at 29.8 ppg.


----------



## Phenom Z28 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



compsciguy78 said:


> Jordan dominating at 40 years old...hahaha
> 
> He was good and probably bottom tier all-star. People kind of took it easy on him and the whole league was afraid of his *** because he was MJ the greatest icon of his era.
> 
> ...


Jordan would have dominated if it weren't for his knee injury the summer before coming back...

And sorry, if you look at *facts *they prove Jordan was the better scorer.


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## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Phenom Z28 said:


> Last time I remember was Antawn Jamison... I guess Kobe is consistent
> 
> BTW was anyone else a little wierded out by the espn broadcast? I dunno...something about the commentators and the environment seemed a little strange.


Yeah... Sounded to me like all 3 of them had prime real-estate on Kobe's nuts...


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## magohaydz (Dec 21, 2005)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

First back to back 50 point games from a Laker since 1962 (elgin Baylor nailed 3 in a row). What a fantastic player Kobe is. I dont give a toss what anyone says about him...love him or hate him, he is the greatest scorer in the present game, and probably top 5 EVER.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Top 5 ever? Yeah I wonder why people jump into these threads as "anti-Kobe"


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## DemonaL (Aug 24, 2005)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Yup as much as you dislike kobe you cant disrespect his game.


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## jordan0386 (Jul 4, 2006)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

OH YEA, this season is shot...the writing is on the wall...imo

Phil said...you in or you out...its back to 30 shots a game for 35 pts...lead the way bean

Nobody is consistent, so they gonna do the whole Kobe show formula again...lets see how it plays out over these last 16 or so


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## Kuskid (Aug 18, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

I'm actually surprised that he never managed back to back 50's during that streak he had a couple years ago. Ah well, props to Kobe for getting it done. Pretty efficient game, and they got the W.


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## Eternal (Sep 7, 2005)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Jizzy said:


> Ridiculous.
> 
> MJ would go on the road, in crucial games and carry his team. Remember in the Finals against the Suns in the game clinching game, he scored the entire Bulls points in the 4th quarter? MJ also played with terrible bigs. Outside of Grant and Cartwright...Perdue? Wennington? King? He alone had the Bulls in title contention unlike Kobe.
> 
> Sorry but until Kobe wins a ring without Shaq, he's not even close to MJ.


Grant and Cartwright are 10x better then anything Kobe has had since Shaq left...

MJ alone didn't have the Bulls in title contention. Not sure where you get that from. He never had the Bulls in title contention until Scottie came. Bulls were out first round every year til Pippen came (two of them being sweeps).


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## TakUrBalzBakFrmUrWife (Nov 9, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Hibachi! said:


> I'm not understanding some things here... For the longest time on the board we've been talking about how soft the NBA is today. How easy it is to draw a foul. How easy it is to drive the lane. How easy it is without handchecking. How easy it is with all the flopping. How easy it is when a hard foul is now a flagrant so hard fouls aren't committed. Then I'm reading some people talking about the Jordan era being softer... The Jordan era being easier to score in... Talk about mixed messages...
> 
> Here's some food for though...
> Jordan- 6 Championships
> ...



Here are some numbers to look at when people speak of Jordan as an untouchable basketball god who never missed a shot....


* Jersey number - 33
* Games played - 1560 (2nd most in NBA history)
* Field goal % - 55.9 (8th highest in NBA history)
* Free throw % - 72.1
* Three-point % - .056
* Rebounds - 17,440 (3rd most in NBA history)
* Rebounds per game - 11.2 (tied for 24th highest in NBA history)
* Assists - 5,660 (31st in NBA history)
* Assist per game - 3.6
* Steals - 1,160
* Steals per game - 0.74
* Blocks - 3,189 (3rd most in NBA history) (Note: blocks were not officially tabulated until the 1973-74 season)
* Blocks per game - 2.57
* Points per game - 24.6 (12th highest)
* Holds NBA career record for:
o Most points in NBA history - 38,387
o Most minutes played (57,446)
o Most field goals made (15,837)
o Most field goals attempted (28,307)
o Most All-Star selections (19)
o Most All-Star games played (18)
o Most playoff games played (237)
* Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame (May 15, 1995)
* College:
o Player of the Year (1967, 1969)
o Three-time First Team All-American (1967-69)
o Three-time NCAA champion (1967, 1968, 1969)
o Most Outstanding Player in NCAA Tournament (1967, 1968, 1969)
o Naismith College Player of the Year (1969)
* National Basketball Association:
o Rookie of the Year (1970)
o Six-time NBA champion (1971, 1980, 1982, 1985, 1987, 1988)
o Most Valuable Player (1971, 1972, 1974, 1976, 1977, 1980)
o Finals Most Valuable Player (1971, 1985)
o Sports Illustrated magazine's "Sportsman of the Year" (1985)
o One of the 50 Greatest Players in NBA History (1996)
o First player in NBA history to play 20 seasons
o #7 in SLAM Magazine's Top 75 NBA Players of all time in 2003.



when looking back in basketball history, you will not find a man who dominated at every single level the way this man did.....

Kareem Abdul Jabbar......


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## magic_bryant (Jan 11, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

I posted this after Kobe dropped 30 points in the 3rd qtr vs Utah. Felt it needed repeated. 

5 30pt quarters in NBA history. 2 are from Kobe.

Only player other than Wilt Chamberlain to AVERAGE 40+ PPG for an entire month on MULTIPLE occassions.

Only player other than Wilt Chamberlain to score 45 points in 4 consecutive games.

Only player other than Wilt to see what 80 points feels like.

Only player in history to outscore an entire team after 3 quarters since the advent of the 24-second shot-clock.

9 consecutive 40+ point games that coincided with a stretch of 13 consecutive games with 35+.

A SEPERATE streak of 5 consecutive 40+ point games.


3 titles.

All-Star games.

All-NBA and All-Defensive 1st Team selections.

*Added:*Only player other than Wilt to score 60+ and 50+ in back-to-back games.

Hold AI to 6 points, Redd to under 10 points on 2 occassions, VC to 10, shut an on fire T-Mac down in the 4th qtr while scoring 24 yourself. Basically the ability to stop anyone for long stretches at a time.

I hope the haters are allowing themselves to at least soak in everything that this guy is doing. He won't be here forever. And once he's gone, you'll really wish you had been able to pay a little more attention. Same thing happened to me.

I HATED MJ. Always held him to this unbelieveable standard that NO ONE should be held to. And when it was all over, after he had hit the shot vs Russell in 98, it was like "damn, that's the end..?"

Soak it in. Jocker, hater, fan, etc. Soak it in. Enjoy it. It won't be here forever.


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## magic_bryant (Jan 11, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Just look at the times he's been "the only player other than Wilt" or "one of a handful" of players to do something. You may hate him. You may love him. But you simply cannot take his skill away from him. Skill-wise - I'd argue there's not a more complete player. 

Having the Hoop IQ to make use of that skill? MJ and Magic were better at it. 

Skill-wise - hasn't been a more complete player.


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## TakUrBalzBakFrmUrWife (Nov 9, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



magic_bryant said:


> Just look at the times he's been "the only player other than Wilt" or "one of a handful" of players to do something..


Thats a load of crap and you know it....anyone can do what Kobe does, "they just don't want to"....


please note the sarcasm....


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## Jordan23Forever (May 14, 2005)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Tragedy said:


> That would be SICK.
> 
> People forget that Jordan was often bigger and stronger than those who guarded him, and played in an era where the average player was much smaller, and there was not nearly as much parity as today's game.
> 
> Playing against 6'2, 6'3 shooting guards, and having smaller players 1-5 is much different than todays game of giants where 6'2 6'3 sgs wont get much time and are converted to pgs.


There were a few combo guards who played SG at times who were 6'3"-6'4", but the average height of SG's in Jordan's day was 6'6", and today it's not more than a quarter inch more than that, if that much. The average NBA player today is actually *smaller* than the average player in 1987 by about a quarter inch.




> I think Kobe is a better scorer then Jordan!
> 
> Jordan was a better winner, but Kobe is a better distance shooter then Jordan. Kobe's abilities from 3 point land and his bigger size make him harder to defend.


Kobe is not a better scorer, he's just a more explosive one when he's in a zone due to his range (for instance, last night's game would've been "only" 57-58 points had he only hit 1 or no threes). In the areas of consistency and efficiency (as well as overall offensive skill-set imo), Kobe is well behind Jordan (except for skill-set, where he's close enough).




> Compare Jordan's numbers to other All Star level SGs in the league, his disparity was not that great.
> 
> Just a sample season of 1990-91:
> 
> ...


How many of those guys were putting up 25+ ppg? (never mind 33-35+) Exactly. Drexler's 48% looks great until you realize that it was the league average, same as a shooting guard averaging 45.4% from the field today -- solid, but unspectacular. Jordan was *routinely* (as in, year-in, year-out) 4-6.5% above league average in terms of FG%, which would be equivalent to a player with a 49.5-52% FG average today. And he did this with every single defense he ever faced geared to stop him and only him. But yeah, it's no big deal... 




Paolo Catarino said:


> Ahem... You guys do know that Jordan played in the one-on-one defense system, right?


You realize that Kobe has never exceeded 46.9% from the field even under man-to-man rules and with the most dominant force of the last 30 years drawing multiple defenders every time down the court, right? To assume that he'd suddenly become a 53+% shooter like Jordan back in the day (especially as the pimary option) is ridiculous. He'd be in the 47.5-50.5% range, though.




> Kobe could average 40 ppg if he wanted.


On about 37-40% shooting, sure. No question. So could several guys throughout history.

People are splooging over Kobe having back-to-back games of 50+, when not only has HE HIMSELF done that before, but Jordan has done so multiple times. Here are just some Jordan consecutive high-scoring game streaks:

- 49 followed by 63 vs. Boston, playoffs
- 53, 50, and 61 points in '87
- 50 followed by 55 vs. Cleveland, playoffs
- 69, 49, 47 in 1990
- 45, 49, 45 vs. Philly, '90 playoffs
- 42, 44, 55 vs. Phoenix, '93 Finals





Sir Patchwork said:


> Statistically, there are players on his level if we're talking the 90's Jordan, and especially if we're talking the Jordan of the 2nd 3-peat.


Jordan's *average* PER from '90-'97 was 29.6. Only _two players_ in the league (Shaq and TMac) have even had a *single season* of PER that high, and that was Jordan's 6 season average. Tmac had one and Shaq had four. So you're actually wrong. But yeah, there are some guys who compare favorably statistically to *34 and 35 year old* Jordan...

And it's not just PER -- you can use EFF, Birdies, whatever. 




> Skill-wise - hasn't been a more complete player.


Jordan was certainly a more skilled player than Kobe. I'd argue that possibly Bird and possibly Hakeem were as well. Kobe's only skill advantage on Jordan is 3-point shooting (and a slightly better handle). Jordan has small-to-significant advantages in every other skill area: footwork (small edge), off-the-ball movement (large edge), reading defenses and reacting appropriately (large edge), passing (moderate edge), post play (modertae/large edge imo), rebounding (moderate/large), off-the-ball defense (huge edge), individual defense (small/moderate edge). Jordan's edge in any one area is not large (though it's discernible if one watches both of them play), but it adds up. The gap in skill is not huge by any stretch; as I said earlier, I'd estimate it to be around 10%, myself. Kobe is certainly one of the most skilled players to ever play. But to say he's the _most_ skilled? Sorry, but I can't buy that having seem prime Jordan.


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## magohaydz (Dec 21, 2005)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Pioneer10 said:


> Top 5 ever? Yeah I wonder why people jump into these threads as "anti-Kobe"


Yes, top 5 EVER. Is it that hard to believe? Go on, name em...where do you put him on the list?


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## Jordan23Forever (May 14, 2005)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



magohaydz said:


> Yes, top 5 EVER. Is it that hard to believe? Go on, name em...where do you put him on the list?


If you meant top 5 scorers, yeah, he's on there. Top 5 players? Not even close. Jordan, Wilt, Bird, Magic, Kareem, Shaq, just to get you started.


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## magohaydz (Dec 21, 2005)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Jordan23Forever said:


> If you meant top 5 scorers, yeah, he's on there. Top 5 players? Not even close. Jordan, Wilt, Bird, Magic, Kareem, Shaq, just to get you started.


Yeah man, I said scorers. Definitely wouldnt say he's top 5 all-around player, but definitely scorer.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



magohaydz said:


> Yes, top 5 EVER. Is it that hard to believe? Go on, name em...where do you put him on the list?


 ROFL: have you been watching basketball for two years only?

Top 5 SG yeah obvioulsy Kobe is there but he's not top 5 of all time ever by a pretty fair margin. Hell even top 5 lakers he barely makes it: Kareem, Shaq, Wilt, Magic, Kobe?. Some would argue put West ahead of him as well

Top 5 Scorer makes more sense


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## Yao Mania (Aug 4, 2003)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

2nd most pts ever in a game, 8 straight 40+ pt games... yah I'd say he's a top 5 scorer of all time. So much criticism for Kobe... but at least no one's calling him selfish anymore!


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## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Jordan23Forever said:


> Jordan was certainly a more skilled player than Kobe. I'd argue that possibly Bird and possibly Hakeem were as well. Kobe's only skill advantage on Jordan is 3-point shooting (and a slightly better handle). Jordan has small-to-significant advantages in every other skill area: footwork (small edge), off-the-ball movement (large edge), reading defenses and reacting appropriately (large edge), passing (moderate edge), post play (modertae/large edge imo), rebounding (moderate/large), off-the-ball defense (huge edge), individual defense (small/moderate edge). Jordan's edge in any one area is not large (though it's discernible if one watches both of them play), but it adds up. The gap in skill is not huge by any stretch; as I said earlier, I'd estimate it to be around 10%, myself. Kobe is certainly one of the most skilled players to ever play. But to say he's the _most_ skilled? Sorry, but I can't buy that having seem prime Jordan.



1st off stats aren't really applicable to any argument about Kobe and MJ in comparison different eras and advantages /disadvantages with Kobe and MJ. 

The basis for my argument is that MJ is alittle bit better a player than Kobe is not a lot alittle bit. He's the closest in comparison to Mj in the league's history. 

MJ's only big advantage is defensively where he's better than Kobe by a decent margin. 

Footwork wise Kobe is better, his better handle, and ability to hit deep shots while challenegdd is an example of this.He creates space anywhere on the floor. 

MJ was a better athlete, he was faster in the open court and had more explosive leaping ability, both are talented with flexibility and the ability to hang in the air another slight MJ advantage.Mj had a lethal 1st step but you can't compare it because he played against lesser athlete's. MJ just plain outclassed slower,shorter less athletic players. Kobe plays against a great athlete most nights. 

MJ toasted guys like Ehlo and Hornacek when in his prime Kobe would eat those guys alive as well. So 1st step isn't a fair analysis because of the era. And hand checking something in MJ's favor. 

Kobe is a more creative scorer, uses the dribble more, uses pump fakes more often shoots with more range. 

I think they are actually equally skilled. But MJ the slightly better player. 

Hakeem isn't more skilled than Kobe thats silly. Neither is Bird, Magic is in the most skilled convo as well. There's really no way to determine who was more skilled when you talk about players who can do it all on the floor. 

MJ lovers have as much perspective as Kobe lover. I'm in my mid 30's I also saw Prime MJ and he wasn't much better than Prime Kobe is. 

equally skilled.


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## Tragedy (Dec 9, 2002)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Jizzy said:


> Ridiculous.
> 
> MJ would go on the road, in crucial games and carry his team. Remember in the Finals against the Suns in the game clinching game, he scored the entire Bulls points in the 4th quarter? MJ also played with terrible bigs. Outside of Grant and Cartwright...Perdue? Wennington? King? He alone had the Bulls in title contention unlike Kobe.
> 
> Sorry but until Kobe wins a ring without Shaq, he's not even close to MJ.


Whoa. Jordan ALONE had the Bulls in title contention?

ALONE???

I don't remember that.

I do remember Pippen having the bulls one iffy call away from the finals, with NO JORDAN, and only losing 2 more games than the previous year, despite playing WITHOUT the 32 ppg so called GOAT.


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## fruitcake (Mar 20, 2005)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

this will sum it up.

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Bp8ns7Bkm-s"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Bp8ns7Bkm-s" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Spriggan said:


> Kobe and his antics, along with the emergence the past couple seasons of monster perimeter scorers like Arenas and Melo (and even Redd), has served to greatly de-sensitize us to scoring outbursts. It's almost like we expect them at this point. Remember when 40 point games were seen as a fairly big deal, much less 50 point games (how many times have people brought up Tony Delk once scoring 50?)? Those are almost seen as irrelevant and "passe" now. You almost have to score 70 points to make people notice at this point, literally. Kobe already has 40 points tonight with 8 minutes left in the 4th, after putting up 65 last night, and it's possibly the least surprising or notable event ever. He could end up with 50 and the win and it's like... so?


I understand what you mean in that 50 points has become less "awe-inspiring" to the general public. However, I don't think that makes this feat any less amazing.


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## Smez86 (Jun 29, 2006)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

In terms of scoring prowess, it could go either way, really.

But the overall game? MJ is better, no doubt. In fact, I don't know if Kobe will ever be able to pass him up. Not to say that it isn't possible, but he's going to have to do a hell of a lot more stuff, and consistently. Maybe score 120 a few times?


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## RSP83 (Nov 24, 2002)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Kobe is Kobe. He's not MJ. He's the best player in the planet right now. He's in my Top 5 player in my lifetime along with MJ, Bird, Magic, and Shaq.


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## bballlife (Oct 5, 2003)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Jordan23Forever said:


> Jordan was certainly a more skilled player than Kobe. I'd argue that possibly Bird and possibly Hakeem were as well. Kobe's only skill advantage on Jordan is 3-point shooting (and a slightly better handle). Jordan has small-to-significant advantages in every other skill area: footwork (small edge), off-the-ball movement (large edge), reading defenses and reacting appropriately (large edge), passing (moderate edge), post play (modertae/large edge imo), rebounding (moderate/large), off-the-ball defense (huge edge), individual defense (small/moderate edge). Jordan's edge in any one area is not large (though it's discernible if one watches both of them play), but it adds up. The gap in skill is not huge by any stretch; as I said earlier, I'd estimate it to be around 10%, myself. Kobe is certainly one of the most skilled players to ever play. But to say he's the _most_ skilled? Sorry, but I can't buy that having seem prime Jordan.




I think if you list every single skill, and put more weight on the more important skills, I think Kobe takes it. 

Have you seen what Kobe has done with his left? I know Jordan had a great left as well, I've seen him hit a 17-footer shooting left, seen all the lefty finishes, but what Kobe does with his left is really quite remarkable. He uses it often and he has used it in just about every way imaginable. Floaters, up-and-unders, off the glass, jumper, finger roll, the trey against Dallas, hook shots, and there is a video on youtube of him making 2 half-court shots in a row with the left. His skill level with the ball is something we really haven't seen before.


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## Bball_Doctor (Dec 29, 2002)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

This is like 2002 all over again...

I have watched Jordan since the late 80s and I have watched Kobe since keeping tabs on him as a draft prospect in 96' when he was still in highschool.

Without getting into a long debate what I see from Kobe these last several years particularly as it pertains to scoring is as impressive as Jordan in terms of individual performance. Of course there are still some things Jordan did better and there are things Kobe does better. It is the other stuff like MVPs and rings that really separate the greatness of their legacies along with Jordan's incredible consistency. He was also more efficient as a poster already pointed out with Jordan's PER. Also enough with the 40 PPG month example. In MJ's 37 PPG season he didn't have a month where he averaged lower than 35 PPG. To me that is just as impressive as 40 PPG months. Just for your information Jordan's highest PPG month if you only count regular season games is 39 and he did that in his 35 PPG season. Jordan's consistency is the greatest difference between him and Kobe in terms of individual performance and what truly defines his scoring greatness. You don't win 10 scoring titles and accumulate 38 50+ point games and over 200 40+ point games in a career without being incredibly consistent for a long period of time. In order for Kobe to match Jordan he has to be consistent for a long period for the remainder of his career.


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## hroz (Mar 4, 2006)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Lets just bask in Kobe's talent........

As a scorer Kobe in top 5. But you got to realise Russell, Wilt, Shaq, Kareem, Hakeem are all better than him. And thats just Cs. Then you got to consider Jordan Oscar Magic Bird West Erving Stockton.


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## afobisme (Apr 29, 2006)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Bball_Doctor said:


> This is like 2002 all over again...
> 
> I have watched Jordan since the late 80s and I have watched Kobe since keeping tabs on him as a draft prospect in 96' when he was still in highschool.
> 
> Without getting into a long debate what I see from Kobe these last several years particularly as it pertains to scoring is as impressive as Jordan in terms of individual performance. Of course there are still some things Jordan did better and there are things Kobe does better. It is the other stuff like MVPs and rings that really separate the greatness of their legacies along with Jordan's incredible consistency. He was also more efficient as a poster already pointed out with Jordan's PER. Also enough with the 40 PPG month example. In MJ's 37 PPG season he didn't have a month where he averaged lower than 35 PPG. To me that is just as impressive as 40 PPG months. Just for your information Jordan's highest PPG month if you only count regular season games is 39 and he did that in his 35 PPG season. Jordan's consistency is the greatest difference between him and Kobe in terms of individual performance and what truly defines his scoring greatness. You don't win 10 scoring titles and accumulate 38 50+ point games and over 200 40+ point games in a career without being incredibly consistent for a long period of time. In order for Kobe to match Jordan he has to be consistent for a long period for the remainder of his career.


didn't he average 35 points last year?


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## magohaydz (Dec 21, 2005)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Can you guys read or not? I Said top 5 SCORER! Not top 5 player, not top 5 Laker...top 5 SCORER!


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Kobe is a top 5 scorer definitely. I'd put him at 3rd, maybe 2nd behind only Wilt and maybe Jordan. With Jordan, he was more consistent but not as explosive as Kobe. So it's a median vs. ceiling thing. Kobe at his best is a better scorer than Jordan was, but Jordan at his average was a better scorer than Kobe is at his average.


----------



## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Damian Necronamous said:


> I understand what you mean in that 50 points has become less "awe-inspiring" to the general public. However, I don't think that makes this feat any less amazing.


I wasn't trying to take anything away from the 65 points at all. On the contrary, the fact that Kobe can score 65 one night and follow it up with 50 two nights later (both wins) and it still isn't really seen as _that_ big a deal speaks volumes about Kobe's prowess and reputation as a scorer. He's almost single-handedly raised the bar in terms of what we consider a big scoring game. 65 points is still 65 points, of course, but I think it would've been seen as a much bigger deal even only a couple of seasons ago. It isn't just because of the 81, though, or just Kobe. We're spoiled now, in general.


----------



## Air Jordan 23 (Dec 12, 2006)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Eternal said:


> I guess you forgot what he did to Dallas last year (62 pts in 3 qtrs), which he probably would've scored even more pts in the Dallas game, if he didn't sit out the whole 4th quarter.



I guess you didn't read where I said on a regular basis and on the road as opposed to mostly at home?


----------



## Air Jordan 23 (Dec 12, 2006)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Eternal said:


> Grant and Cartwright are 10x better then anything Kobe has had since Shaq left...
> 
> MJ alone didn't have the Bulls in title contention. Not sure where you get that from. He never had the Bulls in title contention until Scottie came. Bulls were out first round every year til Pippen came (two of them being sweeps).



Yeah, against the 80's CELTICS. Y'know, one of the greatest teams of all time. You act like MJ's early Bulls teams got swept by some scrub team.

Oh, and Pip didn't do much for the Bulls until his 3rd year. By that time, MJ led the Bulls out of the first round twice, the second being all the way into the Eastern Conference Finals.

Check your facts.


----------



## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Sir Patchwork said:


> *Kobe is a top 5 scorer definitely. *I'd put him at 3rd, maybe 2nd behind only Wilt and maybe Jordan. With Jordan, he was more consistent but not as explosive as Kobe. So it's a median vs. ceiling thing. Kobe at his best is a better scorer than Jordan was, but Jordan at his average was a better scorer than Kobe is at his average.


It's hard to judge, really... Considering peak years, what about Kareem, West, Baylor, Barry, Dantley, Bernard King, Alex English...


----------



## Jordan23Forever (May 14, 2005)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



jazzy1 said:


> 1st off stats aren't really applicable to any argument about Kobe and MJ in comparison different eras and advantages /disadvantages with Kobe and MJ.


The skills argument wasn't using stats as a basis. I've simply seen a ton of '88-'98 Jordan and a ton of Kobe. I see with my eyes who's more skilled. Sorry if you can't handle a different opinion, but I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that you haven't seen even a dozen games of Jordan's from '88-'93 (not including commonly televised Finals games etc.). 



> The basis for my argument is that MJ is alittle bit better a player than Kobe is not a lot alittle bit. He's the closest in comparison to Mj in the league's history.


I agree with the last statement, but you have to understand that a big part of that is because of A) Jordan's influence; and B) the fact that Kobe has deliberately copied Jordan's moves and mannerisms.



> MJ's only big advantage is defensively where he's better than Kobe by a decent margin.


Actually, their man-to-man defense (when Kobe applies himself, which he doesn't do as consistently as Jordan did) is comparable. Jordan has an edge, but it's not large by any stretch. Slightly quicker feet, better fundamentals in terms of positioning/spacing, and moderately quicker hands which allowed him to apply more ball pressure. Jordan's help/team/off-the-ball defense was in another league from Kobe's, however.

Jordan's biggest skill-based advantages are his off-the-ball movement, his reading of defenses, and his off-the-ball defense. 



> Footwork wise Kobe is better


Certainly not. In fact, Kobe has pilfered (nearly) the entire Jordan footwork repertoire. Jordan's footwork was better -- not by much, but it was. I've seen Jordan do things footwork-wise that I've never seen Kobe do, but that doesn't hold in reverse.



> his better handle


In terms of "And-1" style handle, yeah, definitely. But Jordan, like Kobe, was the best handling SG/SF in the league from '85-'93. He got where he wanted on the court in any situation just as easily as Kobe, and had a very creative handle in game situations (e.g., while splitting screen & rolls, traps, in the lane etc.).



> and ability to hit deep shots while challenegdd is an example of this.


I've already said that Kobe has a large advantage from deep.



> MJ was a better athlete, he was faster in the open court and had more explosive leaping ability, both are talented with flexibility and the ability to hang in the air another slight MJ advantage.Mj had a lethal 1st step but you can't compare it because he played against lesser athlete's. MJ just plain outclassed slower,shorter less athletic players. Kobe plays against a great athlete most nights.


BS. First step and speed is something you can see. Kobe is nowhere near as fast as Jordan was in the halfcourt from point A to point B (e.g., from the 3-pt line to the basket). That has nothing to do with the defense; it's something you can see and can time.



> MJ toasted guys like Ehlo and Hornacek when in his prime Kobe would eat those guys alive as well. So 1st step isn't a fair analysis because of the era.


No one said Kobe wouldn't have success against those guys, but you're acting like Jordan faced Ehlo every day. What about Drexler, Harper, Dumars, Wilkins, Richmond, Augmon etc.? What I like most about those who try to disparage Jordan based on comp is that they try to have it both ways: they point to the undersized nature of some of Jordan's counterparts (e.g., Dumars, Dennis Johnson), but then Jordan gets no credit for being able to get past these smaller players at will, nor does he get credit for defending smaller players excellently. Again, though, the average SG was about 6'5.75" in Jordan's day, about the same as now give or take a half inch.



> Kobe is a more creative scorer, uses the dribble more, uses pump fakes more often shoots with more range.


More creative scorer? Very subjective. I'll take the guy who won 10 scoring titles (not one) on record efficiency, though. Even having watched them both, I've never felt that Kobe was nearly as creative a player as Jordan (not just in terms of scoring, but in every way). I've always felt that that's a big advantage Jordan has.



> I think they are actually equally skilled. But MJ the slightly better player.


Jordan is slightly more skilled, and was, in the *average game*, a 10-15% better player than Kobe due to his mental game and better understanding of how to use his skills in a game context. When Kobe is having a really great game, he's about 90-95% of Jordan.



> I'm in my mid 30's I also saw Prime MJ and he wasn't much better than Prime Kobe is.


10-15% isn't "much." Saying that Kobe is 85-90% as good as a player many consider the GOAT, or only 5-10% worse than him on a great night, isn't an insult. Only someone making unrealistic (and unfounded) assumptions about Kobe would think it was some sort of slight.



> I do remember Pippen having the bulls one iffy call away from the finals, with NO JORDAN, and only losing 2 more games than the previous year, despite playing WITHOUT the 32 ppg so called GOAT.


I also remember MJ, Scottie, and Phil all saying in interviews during '93 that they started slowly due to fatigue from playing on the Dream Team. How about you compare the '94 to '92 Bulls?



> I think if you list every single skill, and put more weight on the more important skills, I think Kobe takes it.


I totally disagree. See above. Kobe's left is nice as a novelty (he doesn't use it nearly as much as, say, Larry Bird did), but it alone doesn't make him more skilled than Jordan. Jordan could shoot lefty J's with perfect form too -- go watch the intro to "Come Fly With Me" and you'll see him sink several with form so perfect that you won't realize it's his off-hand.



> Kobe is a top 5 scorer definitely. I'd put him at 3rd, maybe 2nd behind only Wilt and maybe Jordan. With Jordan, he was more consistent but not as explosive as Kobe. So it's a median vs. ceiling thing. Kobe at his best is a better scorer than Jordan was, but Jordan at his average was a better scorer than Kobe is at his average.


So if your team was in need of a first option scorer, you'd take Kobe over Jordan? Your team would lose to mine 18 times out of 20, then. Those 2 wins correspond to when Kobe gets super-hot, and the 18 wins are the overwhelming majority of the games where Jordan is capable of scoring 30-50+ points on remarkable efficiency. Jordan averaged 65% shooting in his 38 career 50+ point games; Kobe's at around 53-54% for his. And both have proved that they can take over games in the 4th with their scoring, so that's moot.

At his absolute peak, Kobe is a more explosive scorer than anyone in history imo. But I'd literally never take him on my team over Jordan if I needed a scorer. And not just because I like Jordan more, either. Most people wouldn't. That makes Jordan the better scorer.


----------



## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Kobe is only ahead of Jordan as a scorer if you take out efficiency which doesn't make much sense or you only look at Jordan post-retirement


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Gotta give credit where its due, he followed up a monster performance with another monster game. The guy makes scoring look too easy


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## Theonee (Dec 5, 2006)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

I agree that we are spoiled by Kobe himself. I remember when AI and Tmac scored 60, it was such a big deal, but now it is just another high scoring game for Kobe.


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## Air Jordan 23 (Dec 12, 2006)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



> I do remember Pippen having the bulls one iffy call away from the finals, with NO JORDAN, and only losing 2 more games than the previous year, despite playing WITHOUT the 32 ppg so called GOAT.


Then your memory is faulty. Pip had the Bulls one call from the Eastern Conference Finals, NOT the NBA Finals.


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## Tragedy (Dec 9, 2002)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Air Jordan 23 said:


> Then your memory is faulty. Pip had the Bulls one call from the Eastern Conference Finals, NOT the NBA Finals.


Ok, point being that without Jordan the Bulls still went far, which proves that while Jordan did win 6 titles and 6 finals mvp as a Bull, he wasnt the sole reason they did so.


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## bballlife (Oct 5, 2003)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Jordan23Forever said:


> I agree with the last statement, but you have to understand that a big part of that is because of A) Jordan's influence; and B) the fact that Kobe has deliberately copied Jordan's moves and mannerisms.


What’s wrong with that? That is what basketball is all about, picking up moves from other players, and improving your game. There was no better model for Kobe to pattern his game. 



> Actually, their man-to-man defense (when Kobe applies himself, which he doesn't do as consistently as Jordan did) is comparable. Jordan has an edge, but it's not large by any stretch. Slightly quicker feet, better fundamentals in terms of positioning/spacing, and moderately quicker hands which allowed him to apply more ball pressure. Jordan's help/team/off-the-ball defense was in another league from Kobe's, however.


I agree with a lot of this. Whether it is man d or help d, Jordan beats him easily because Jordan was a better conditioned athlete, and a more intense one at that. We all know Jordan’s defense was far more consistent, but because of MJ’s superior physical tools (big hands, athleticism) Jordan also had the ability to make more big plays on the defensive end. Kobe at his best defensively is very good, and a few years ago I think he was almost as good a help defender, but that was brief, and overall Jordan takes this argument quite easily. 




> Certainly not. In fact, Kobe has pilfered (nearly) the entire Jordan footwork repertoire. Jordan's footwork was better -- not by much, but it was. I've seen Jordan do things footwork-wise that I've never seen Kobe do, but that doesn't hold in reverse.


I thought Jordan had the best footwork ever, and then Kobe came along and took everything Jordan did and added a bit. Jordan had the baseline fade-away jumper, and then he had the counter fake off the spin with the up-and-under. Kobe has that same move. Kobe has the baseline attack where he draws two defenders, then splits both of them with the spin move. Kobe has the better drop-step. Both players have displayed a ridiculous 1-dribble reverse pivot jumper. So they are very close, but Kobe has a few extra moves, and then when you factor in the way he uses his left, and the footwork it takes to do that, a floater with the left hand, for example, I think Kobe has the slight edge in footwork. 




> In terms of "And-1" style handle, yeah, definitely. But Jordan, like Kobe, was the best handling SG/SF in the league from '85-'93. He got where he wanted on the court in any situation just as easily as Kobe, and had a very creative handle in game situations (e.g., while splitting screen & rolls, traps, in the lane etc.).


Both have very good handles and their hand sizes come into play here. Kobe has a very tight handle, and shows a lot of creativity with his dribble, but his smaller hands have probably been the source of him occasionally getting stripped or losing the ball. Jordan's hands were almost too big, and you would occasionally see him with a sloppy dribble. Where Kobe’s handle shines is turning corners and along that baseline. Close call but I really believe Kobe has the slightly tighter handle. 





> BS. First step and speed is something you can see. Kobe is nowhere near as fast as Jordan was in the halfcourt from point A to point B (e.g., from the 3-pt line to the basket). That has nothing to do with the defense; it's something you can see and can time.


I agree, not close. 





> More creative scorer? Very subjective. I'll take the guy who won 10 scoring titles (not one) on record efficiency, though. Even having watched them both, I've never felt that Kobe was nearly as creative a player as Jordan (not just in terms of scoring, but in every way). I've always felt that that's a big advantage Jordan has.


Jordan has stated many times that he became a great player by mastering the fundamentals and then adding his own creativity. Fundamentals + creativity + insane athleticism = an unbelievable player. But overall creativity, Kobe has shown me several passes/dribbles/shots that I have either seen very few times or never seen before. 
We have seen Kobe pump-fake in the paint from about 10 feet out and throw the ball off the backboard and finish. We have seen him shoot floaters and jumpers behind the backboard, and pass it over the board as well. Kobe has used his left hand in every kind of situation, and split defenders with different dribble moves. To keep it short, both players have shown us many creative finishes around the basket, several unique passes, and plenty of great ball tricks. In terms of creativity, I think you have to put Kobe right there with Jordan. 




> Jordan is slightly more skilled, and was, in the *average game*, a 10-15% better player than Kobe due to his mental game and better understanding of how to use his skills in a game context. When Kobe is having a really great game, he's about 90-95% of Jordan.


I think Jordan’s edge over Kobe comes from the mental advantage you noted and his insane athleticism. Kobe is close, though, because of his skill level. In regards to actual skill with the ball, I think Kobe is the more skilled player. If you factor in these other facets of the game like moving without the ball, and decision making, I think it is pretty close. 




> I totally disagree. See above. Kobe's left is nice as a novelty (he doesn't use it nearly as much as, say, Larry Bird did), but it alone doesn't make him more skilled than Jordan. Jordan could shoot lefty J's with perfect form too -- go watch the intro to "Come Fly With Me" and you'll see him sink several with form so perfect that you won't realize it's his off-hand.


Jordan had a great left, but we never saw him shoot a 3 with it in a game, we never saw him shoot floaters with it, not to mention bank a jumper off the glass. Both have a great left, but Kobe has displayed his skill with his left more than Jordan ever did. 

Btw, I know Jordan could shoot left with perfect form. 





> At his absolute peak, Kobe is a more explosive scorer than anyone in history imo. But I'd literally never take him on my team over Jordan if I needed a scorer. And not just because I like Jordan more, either. Most people wouldn't. That makes Jordan the better scorer.



Who is the better scorer? As people have stated, Jordan scored 30 like it was nothing and with amazing efficiency. Kobe, most of the time, has to work harder to get his points, but when he gets hot, he gets hot, and because of his range, he is the most explosive scorer we have seen.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



> So if your team was in need of a first option scorer, you'd take Kobe over Jordan? Your team would lose to mine 18 times out of 20, then. Those 2 wins correspond to when Kobe gets super-hot, and the 18 wins are the overwhelming majority of the games where Jordan is capable of scoring 30-50+ points on remarkable efficiency. Jordan averaged 65% shooting in his 38 career 50+ point games; Kobe's at around 53-54% for his. And both have proved that they can take over games in the 4th with their scoring, so that's moot.


18 of 20 is just a crazy ascertion. and the fg%'s aren't comparable, because of how frequently kobe takes the 3.


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## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

I've never understood and will never understand (it's never been properly explained to me, anyway) why Kobe emulating his game after Michael Jordan can be construed as a negative in _any_ possible way. How on earth...? Picture yourself as a young, up-and-coming basketball phenom, one that happens to play the shooting guard position. You want to be the best player you can possibly be. What player do you begin to model your game after? Who other, than the greatest player of them all at the position you play? And arguably greatest player ever, period? Besides, I don't think it's turned out too badly for that blatant copycat Kobe, has it? Maybe he should have aimed a little lower and strived to be the next Clyde Drexler. At least then, there'd be no Jordan hero worship getting in the way of any objective analysis of Kobe's talent and skills, lambasting the guy because he shoots fadeaways like the greatest fadeaway shooter ever. Come on now.


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## Phenom Z28 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

I just think it's funny how when people don't think Kobe is better than Jordan they're labeled a "hater."


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## TakUrBalzBakFrmUrWife (Nov 9, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Spriggan said:


> I've never understood and will never understand (it's never been properly explained to me, anyway) why Kobe emulating his game after Michael Jordan can be construed as a negative in _any_ possible way. How on earth...? Picture yourself as a young, up-and-coming basketball phenom, one that happens to play the shooting guard position. You want to be the best player you can possibly be. What player do you begin to model your game after? Who other, than the greatest player of them all at the position you play? And arguably greatest player ever, period? Besides, I don't think it's turned out too badly for that blatant copycat Kobe, has it? Maybe he should have aimed a little lower and strived to be the next Clyde Drexler. At least then, there'd be no Jordan hero worship getting in the way of any objective analysis of Kobe's talent and skills, lambasting the guy because he shoots fadeaways like the greatest fadeaway shooter ever. Come on now.



I understand where it stems from. In the late 80s and 90s, EVERY kid wanted to be like Mike. Kobe Bryant is the only one who has come close to actually doing it. Its just jealousy. plain and simple.


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## TakUrBalzBakFrmUrWife (Nov 9, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Phenom Z28 said:


> I just think it's funny how when people don't think Kobe is better than Jordan they're labeled a "hater."


I think its funny how people act as if basketball never existed before Jordan.


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## compsciguy78 (Dec 16, 2002)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Kinda off topic:

I feel bad for Kareem Abdul Jabbar. He scores the most points in NBA history and gets no respect!

Seriously I think Kareem would be better then Yao Ming in todays game. Smaller, more agile, and the skyhook was the most money shot ever!!! 

Imagine if you had prime Kareem nowadays! He would be averaging 30 ppg easily with his sky hook alone! 

Kareem gets overlooked because he was soft spoken kinda like David Robinson. Both were beasts but Kareem had the sky hook!!! The sky hook ****in rules! 


Back on Topic sortof:

Who was the best dunker? Jordan or Kobe?

After watching the old school tapes, Jordan might have been the best dunker of all-time! I used to say it was Vince because of his hangtime, but Jordan had more speed and style going to the rim! I'm going with Jordan for now on!

Peace out


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## Pain5155 (May 28, 2006)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Jordan>Kobe 

6 NBA Finals MVP to Kobes 0.

End of Discussion. 

Kobe is the best player in the NBA TODAY.


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## Jizzy (Aug 24, 2005)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Sir Patchwork said:


> Kobe is a top 5 scorer definitely. I'd put him at 3rd, maybe 2nd behind only Wilt and maybe Jordan. With Jordan, he was more consistent but not as explosive as Kobe. So it's a median vs. ceiling thing. Kobe at his best is a better scorer than Jordan was, but Jordan at his average was a better scorer than Kobe is at his average.




Jordan was MUCH more explosive then Kobe. Your last sentence also contradicts itself.


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## Blink4 (Jan 17, 2005)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Jizzy said:


> Jordan was MUCH more explosive then Kobe. Your last sentence also contradicts itself.


I think you guys are using explosive in two different ways. Jordan was definately more explosive to the hoop, with a better first step, but thats not what patch is saying. He's basically saying that when Kobe gets hot, he can score more in bunches than MJ could. This can be shown by the 30 point quarters and 50+ in 3quarters games.


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## magohaydz (Dec 21, 2005)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Blink4 said:


> I think you guys are using explosive in two different ways. Jordan was definately more explosive to the hoop, with a better first step, but thats not what patch is saying. He's basically saying that when Kobe gets hot, he can score more in bunches than MJ could. This can be shown by the 30 point quarters and 50+ in 3quarters games.


Lets look at it this way - if your team is down and needs a big run you go to your main man. For the Bulls it was Jordan; for the Lakers its Kobe, without doubts. The problem is, in those scoring explosions, youre drawing double, sometimes triple teams, so you might need to kick the ball out to your second go-to man. The Bulls had Pippen, who could slash the lane like a man possessed - the Lakers have Lamar. If I were Kobe and on fire I'd take the 3 rather than pass it to Odom too. Jordan wouldn't on most occasions - he'd pass to Pip. 

Anyway, since this has turned into a debate about Kobe vs. Jordan (which in itself is a great acknowledgemnt of how fine a player young Mr Bryant is), all I have to say is I dont remember Mike ever rapi....er....nevermind :biggrin:


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## Jordan23Forever (May 14, 2005)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



kflo said:


> 18 of 20 is just a crazy ascertion. and the fg%'s aren't comparable, because of how frequently kobe takes the 3.


I don't think it's crazy at all -- in fact, I find it to be quite the generous assumption. The 2 wins out of 20 (i.e., 10% of the time) corresponds to those rare games where Kobe gets absolutely crazy (which Jordan can't match). The other 18 wins are the vast majority of games where Jordan was capable of scoring 30-55+ points on much greater efficiency than Kobe. Jordan averaged 64% shooting in his 38 career games of 50+; Kobe has averaged 53-54% in his. He was just a far more efficient scorer by _any_ metric (FG%, eFG%, TS%, ppfga, points per possession, % above league averages etc.), so the "he takes more 3's argument (which TS% and eFG% account for anyway) doesn't mean much. Both have proven themselves able to take over games in the 4th quarter with their scoring, so that's moot.


If you need a scorer and want to win games, you'd be absolutely crazy to take Kobe over Jordan imo. 2 games out of 20 where Kobe not only outscores Jordan, but does so efficiently, is a *more* than generous estimate given their respective histories. And if you think that Kobe gets super-hot to a degree that Jordan can't match or exceed more than 10% of the time (i.e., 8 games per season), you're wrong. He gets hot more than 8 games each year, but only 2-3 times each season does he go on a spree that Jordan wouldn't be able to match. Like I said, I was being generous.




Blink4 said:


> He's basically saying that when Kobe gets hot, he can score more in bunches than MJ could. This can be shown by the 30 point quarters and 50+ in 3quarters games.


Agreed. However, regarding the 30 point quarters, I personally feel that people place too much stock in them. In one, he had 17-18 FTA in the quarter, and in the other 12 (Jazz were in the penalty early in the 3rd). He also attempted over 9 FG's in each quarter on top of that. I've seen Jordan have lots of 8-10 FGM quarters in games, but never did it happen in a game where he _also_ got to the line 12-17+ times in one quarter, or else he'd have 30-point quarters to his name too. Kobe's other feats (56 in 3, 42 in one half, 81 pts) are much more impressive to me. He was hot in the Dallas game (18-31 FG), but without his 25 FT attempts (Dallas as a team had 30), it wouldn't look quite as spectacular. I feel that his 65-point game the other night is more impressive than 62 in 3 for these reasons (and also because of the way he brought LA back into the game with his scoring the other night).



Spriggan said:


> I've never understood and will never understand (it's never been properly explained to me, anyway) why Kobe emulating his game after Michael Jordan can be construed as a negative in any possible way. How on earth...? Picture yourself as a young, up-and-coming basketball phenom, one that happens to play the shooting guard position. You want to be the best player you can possibly be. What player do you begin to model your game after? Who other, than the greatest player of them all at the position you play? And arguably greatest player ever, period? Besides, I don't think it's turned out too badly for that blatant copycat Kobe, has it? Maybe he should have aimed a little lower and strived to be the next Clyde Drexler. At least then, there'd be no Jordan hero worship getting in the way of any objective analysis of Kobe's talent and skills, lambasting the guy because he shoots fadeaways like the greatest fadeaway shooter ever. Come on now.


Because *all* players are *influenced* by their predecessors (as Jordan was by Dr. J), but only Kobe has made a habit of studying videotapes of Jordan (as related by his best friends) and blatantly copying Jordan-specific moves and mannerisms. Gotta love it when Kobe sticks his tongue out on a drive (which he did for about a season or so a few years back -- guess he decided it was a bit _too_ mimetic seeing how he's since discontinued it); who's the only guy in history who did that? Or how about when he kicks his leg out and dangles it with a slight hop and turn with the gooseneck extended after taking a jumper? Know who the *only* other player in history to ever do that is? Yeah, rhymes with "Dordan." He even tried to shoot FT's with his eyes closed a couple of seasons ago. Dude has no shame. There are literally DOZENS of other examples.

You don't see guys like Tmac, Carter, Lebron, or Wade doing any of this nonsense, because they had the decency to _take what Jordan did and craft their *own* game out of it_. The "imitation is the best form of flattery" angle misses the point entirely -- *of course* all players wanted to "be like Mike," but few had the lack of decorum necessary to pilfer his every move and mannerism (down to the inflection of his voice and what he says in interviews). It's sad, really, and it's one of the reasons (among several) why I've never liked Kobe. Tremendous player, no doubt, and you'd be a fool to say otherwise, but I just don't like him.



TakUrBalzBakfrOmuRWife said:


> I understand where it stems from. In the late 80s and 90s, EVERY kid wanted to be like Mike. Kobe Bryant is the only one who has come close to actually doing it. Its just jealousy. plain and simple.


See above. This is a simple-minded view which doesn't adequately capture what bothers people about Kobe's brand of thievery. There's a difference between being influenced by another player and studying and mimicking his _incredibly specific_ moves and mannerisms. It's too bad some people can't see the difference. Lots of guys could have done what Kobe's done re: copying MJ's moves/mannerisms. TMac and VC, for instance, are even more naturally talented players than Kobe, yet they never felt compelled to do so. Consequently, people have no problem with them and can respect their unique games.


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## Blink4 (Jan 17, 2005)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



magohaydz said:


> Lets look at it this way - if your team is down and needs a big run you go to your main man. For the Bulls it was Jordan; for the Lakers its Kobe, without doubts. The problem is, in those scoring explosions, youre drawing double, sometimes triple teams, so you might need to kick the ball out to your second go-to man. The Bulls had Pippen, who could slash the lane like a man possessed - the Lakers have Lamar. If I were Kobe and on fire I'd take the 3 rather than pass it to Odom too. Jordan wouldn't on most occasions - he'd pass to Pip.
> 
> Anyway, since this has turned into a debate about Kobe vs. Jordan (which in itself is a great acknowledgemnt of how fine a player young Mr Bryant is), all I have to say is I dont remember Mike ever rapi....er....nevermind :biggrin:


I really am not sure how that relates in any way to what i was saying.


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## Air Jordan 23 (Dec 12, 2006)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Tragedy said:


> Ok, point being that without Jordan the Bulls still went far, which proves that while Jordan did win 6 titles and 6 finals mvp as a Bull, he wasnt the sole reason they did so.



No, but it proves he was the main reason.


----------



## Air Jordan 23 (Dec 12, 2006)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Spriggan said:


> I've never understood and will never understand (it's never been properly explained to me, anyway) why Kobe emulating his game after Michael Jordan can be construed as a negative in _any_ possible way. How on earth...? Picture yourself as a young, up-and-coming basketball phenom, one that happens to play the shooting guard position. You want to be the best player you can possibly be. What player do you begin to model your game after? Who other, than the greatest player of them all at the position you play? And arguably greatest player ever, period? Besides, I don't think it's turned out too badly for that blatant copycat Kobe, has it? Maybe he should have aimed a little lower and strived to be the next Clyde Drexler. At least then, there'd be no Jordan hero worship getting in the way of any objective analysis of Kobe's talent and skills, lambasting the guy because he shoots fadeaways like the greatest fadeaway shooter ever. Come on now.



I have no problem with Kobe emulating Jordan. Matter of fact, Kobe is one of my favorite players today.

My problem is Kobe denying he ripped MJ's style. He's constantly denied this since he came in the League, even though anyone with eyes can see that he does.


----------



## Air Jordan 23 (Dec 12, 2006)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Blink4 said:


> I think you guys are using explosive in two different ways. Jordan was definately more explosive to the hoop, with a better first step, but thats not what patch is saying. He's basically saying that when Kobe gets hot, he can score more in bunches than MJ could. This can be shown by the 30 point quarters and 50+ in 3quarters games.



No, this is shown by Kobe SHOOTING more. Plain and simple.


----------



## cadarn (Feb 1, 2006)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

When Kobe averages 50 points a season then i'll pay attention. He doesn't hold a thing on someone like Wilt who did it before the NBA started changing it's rules to favor it's offensive stars. Not to mention the number of players who could defend as well as score.


----------



## Theonee (Dec 5, 2006)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Sometimes we need to stop living in the past. I have seen lot of Jack Nicklaus fans saying Tigers is not even close to Jack, I have seen lots of Sampras, saying Roger is not as good as Sampras, I have seen lots of Senna fans saying Michael Schumacher is not as good as Senna, same thing is happening with Kobe and Jordan. Since both of them have not played in the same era we can never say. But one thing is certain Michael was best player during his time and Kobe can be arguably called the best right now, although it is arguable.


----------



## Theonee (Dec 5, 2006)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Phenom Z28 said:


> I just think it's funny how when people don't think Kobe is better than Jordan they're labeled a "hater."


There are three people in here who clearly hates Kobe, but you are not one of them.


----------



## Blink4 (Jan 17, 2005)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Air Jordan 23 said:


> No, this is shown by Kobe SHOOTING more. Plain and simple.


No personal attacks


----------



## Air Jordan 23 (Dec 12, 2006)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Blink4 said:


> edited


No namecalling.


----------



## DuMa (Dec 25, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Air Jordan 23 said:


> No, this is shown by Kobe SHOOTING more. Plain and simple.


pretty much yeah. if melo, ai, lebron, wade all had the green light to shoot all the time. they would put up the same numbers. thats why its so 'yawn' when kobe does it.


----------



## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



DuMa said:


> pretty much yeah. if melo, ai, lebron, wade all had the green light to shoot all the time. they would put up the same numbers. thats why its so 'yawn' when kobe does it.


when was the last time any off them went for 80?

Or for 65?

Or for 115 in two games?

Yeah, it's no big deal!!! :cheers:


----------



## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

I don't see why people are trying to discount what he has done. I've never been a big fan of Kobe but clearly he is the best scorer in basketball right now and one of the top scorers ever. As Patchwork was trying to get across - when Kobe gets hot he is as good a scorer as there has even been. 65 and 50 back to back. That's sick. I think it is presumptious to assume even the best of the other scorers in the league could do that regardless of how many shots they get.


----------



## magohaydz (Dec 21, 2005)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

I cant wait for the next Lakers game - Heres hoping for a hat-trick!


----------



## Tragedy (Dec 9, 2002)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



DuMa said:


> pretty much yeah. if melo, ai, lebron, wade all had the green light to shoot all the time. they would put up the same numbers. thats why its so 'yawn' when kobe does it.


ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

AI never had the green light to shoot?

Lebron doesn't have the green light?

Melo doesnt?

Man please. Thanks for the laugh lol


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Wait, so in this kobe-hating thread Kobe's wrong for emulating the best player ever? Ok. I'm gonna start emulating Ricky Davis now.


----------



## Theonee (Dec 5, 2006)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

What people don't realize is that in order to shoot the ball, you got to create shots. Not everyone in the league can create 35 or 40 shots for themselves.


----------



## bballlife (Oct 5, 2003)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Jordan23Forever said:


> Agreed. However, regarding the 30 point quarters, I personally feel that people place too much stock in them. In one, he had 17-18 FTA in the quarter, and in the other 12 (Jazz were in the penalty early in the 3rd). He also attempted over 9 FG's in each quarter on top of that. I've seen Jordan have lots of 8-10 FGM quarters in games, but never did it happen in a game where he _also_ got to the line 12-17+ times in one quarter, or else he'd have 30-point quarters to his name too. Kobe's other feats (56 in 3, 42 in one half, 81 pts) are much more impressive to me. He was hot in the Dallas game (18-31 FG), but without his 25 FT attempts (Dallas as a team had 30), it wouldn't look quite as spectacular. I feel that his 65-point game the other night is more impressive than 62 in 3 for these reasons (and also because of the way he brought LA back into the game with his scoring the other night).


I think he was 14/16 from the ft line that quarter and there were 3 or 4 technicals on the Mavs that quarter and I think a flagrant also. He was getting to the line because Dallas was throwing everything they had at him, and he was attacking quite a bit. I think it was a pretty impressive quarter from him. The one against Utah was a bit more impressive because he was really in the zone, and didn’t miss a fg or ft the entire quarter and a few of those buckets were against AK, a defender who has given him some problems in the past. 

Jordan, no doubt, could have put up 30 in a quarter, multiple times, but I think something always held him back. (himself, Phil, teammates) I don't think he fixated on killing a team himself and dominating the ball the way you have to in order to score that many points. Kobe has more control with a mediocre team to do these things than he would on a great team. Good teams share the ball, good teams move the ball, and they don't rely on one player, that's why they are good *teams*. With most of Kobe's big scoring games, he is just bailing out a bad squad.


----------



## magohaydz (Dec 21, 2005)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



bballlife said:


> Jordan, no doubt, could have put up 30 in a quarter, multiple times, but I think something always held him back. (himself, Phil, teammates) I don't think he fixated on killing a team himself and dominating the ball the way you have to in order to score that many points. Kobe has more control with a mediocre team to do these things than he would on a great team. Good teams share the ball, good teams move the ball, and they don't rely on one player, that's why they are good *teams*. With most of Kobe's big scoring games, he is just bailing out a bad squad.


Thats pretty much what I was saying with my post regarding the second player on each team - comparing Scottie to Lamar.


----------



## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Jizzy said:


> Jordan was MUCH more explosive then Kobe. Your last sentence also contradicts itself.


Jordan was more explosive in a dunking first step kind of way, I said explosive scoring though. Jordan didn't have the range to be the explosive scorer that Kobe is. That's why Jordan doesn't have the ridiculous scoring outbursts that Kobe does. Jordan was consistently a better and more efficient scorer than Kobe, but at their absolute best, Kobe is just something out of this world. When he is on, he scores very high volume and is remarkably efficient. This latest performance where he scored 65 is actually his least efficient 60+ performance. The 81 point game was like 60%+ from the field and the 62 in 3 quarters game against the Mavericks was also very efficient.


----------



## afobisme (Apr 29, 2006)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

kobe reminds me of jordan more than any other player. even their strokes look very similar.


----------



## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Jordan23Forever said:


> I don't think it's crazy at all -- in fact, I find it to be quite the generous assumption. The 2 wins out of 20 (i.e., 10% of the time) corresponds to those rare games where Kobe gets absolutely crazy (which Jordan can't match). The other 18 wins are the vast majority of games where Jordan was capable of scoring 30-55+ points on much greater efficiency than Kobe. Jordan averaged 64% shooting in his 38 career games of 50+; Kobe has averaged 53-54% in his. He was just a far more efficient scorer by _any_ metric (FG%, eFG%, TS%, ppfga, points per possession, % above league averages etc.), so the "he takes more 3's argument (which TS% and eFG% account for anyway) doesn't mean much. Both have proven themselves able to take over games in the 4th quarter with their scoring, so that's moot.
> 
> 
> If you need a scorer and want to win games, you'd be absolutely crazy to take Kobe over Jordan imo. 2 games out of 20 where Kobe not only outscores Jordan, but does so efficiently, is a *more* than generous estimate given their respective histories. And if you think that Kobe gets super-hot to a degree that Jordan can't match or exceed more than 10% of the time (i.e., 8 games per season), you're wrong. He gets hot more than 8 games each year, but only 2-3 times each season does he go on a spree that Jordan wouldn't be able to match. Like I said, I was being generous.


you're being absurd. 

why are you repeating the fg%'s of 50+ games? what was their respective ts%'s? how far off were they? 

kobe's relative rank in ts% has been comparable with the post '92 jordan (and the pre-'88 jordan). 

jordan didn't win 80% of his games with superior teammates. he's going to beat kobe bryant 90% of the time with the equal teammates? it's an absurd number. 

for kicks, i compared jordan's '90 season game logs to kobe's '06 season. just lined them up 1-80 (kobe missed 2 games). pretty random. compared output game by game. 1 vs 1, 2 vs 2. kobe outscored and out ts%'d jordan in the same game in 20 of the 80 games. jordan outscored and out ts%'d kobe 25 of the 80 games. kobe won the ts% battle straight up 31 times, scoring 42 times. 

again, your 90% is absurd. c'mon now.


----------



## xray (Feb 21, 2005)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Nobody will ever, ever be able to convince me that Kobe is superior to MJ.

Never. :nonono:


----------



## yuyuza1 (May 24, 2006)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Hibachi! said:


> I'm not understanding some things here... For the longest time on the board we've been talking about how soft the NBA is today. How easy it is to draw a foul. How easy it is to drive the lane. How easy it is without handchecking. How easy it is with all the flopping. How easy it is when a hard foul is now a flagrant so hard fouls aren't committed. Then I'm reading some people talking about the Jordan era being softer... The Jordan era being easier to score in... Talk about mixed messages...
> 
> Here's some food for though...
> Jordan- 6 Championships
> ...


'nuff said.

What Kobe's doing over the past week has been crazy...but please stop the MJ comparisons.


----------



## Phenom Z28 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



DuMa said:


> pretty much yeah. if melo, ai, lebron, wade all had the green light to shoot all the time. they would put up the same numbers. thats why its so 'yawn' when kobe does it.


 AI had that same green light for like 10 years...I watched him struggle to get 60, there's no way he could do it as often as Kobe and he proved that.

Lebron I think could do it but it'd have to be in a game where he had a TON of FT's...like 30. His outside game isn't nearly as efficient as Kobe's, he's pretty much just _dumdeedumdum _i drive and got fouleded _dumdumdum_. He's capable of putting up 30 more consistantly than Kobe though.

I think Wade is too unselfish to get it, but if he had Kobe's greenlight then I bet he could hit 60 once or twice in his career....not nearly as often as Kobe does. Melo couldn't even come close imo, I hope he proves me wrong.


afobisme said:


> kobe reminds me of jordan more than any other player. even their strokes look very similar.


 That's really the only resemblance I've ever seen.... It's almost identical.


----------



## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



DuMa said:


> pretty much yeah. if melo, ai, lebron, wade all had the green light to shoot all the time. they would put up the same numbers. thats why its so 'yawn' when kobe does it.



they all score less and less efficiently (wade is minimally more efficient). kobe's simply a better scorer. shouldn't be too controversial a statement. not sure why you're trying to suggest otherwise (well, i kinda know).


----------



## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



xray said:


> Nobody will ever, ever be able to convince me that Kobe is superior to MJ.
> 
> Never. :nonono:


Is anywhere here trying to do that, though? The closest I've seen is people saying Kobe was a better scorer, and if you consider that a ridiculous assertion, then I don't know what to tell you. You can disagree with it all you want (I personally don't think Kobe is a better scorer than MJ, but he is right there with him), but you have to at least admit that it's arguable. Nobody in this entire thread, as far as I know, has said Kobe is a better player than MJ. And even the ones saying Kobe is a better scorer are usually quick to point out that he isn't a better overall player.


----------



## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

everyone knows mj was the best everything at everything. and i can't be convinced otherwise.


----------



## xray (Feb 21, 2005)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Spriggan said:


> Is anywhere here trying to do that, though? The closest I've seen is people saying Kobe was a better scorer, and if you consider that a ridiculous assertion, then I don't know what to tell you. You can disagree with it all you want (I personally don't think Kobe is a better scorer than MJ, but he is right there with him), but you have to at least admit that it's arguable. Nobody in this entire thread, as far as I know, has said Kobe is a better player than MJ. And even the ones saying Kobe is a better scorer are usually quick to point out that he isn't a better overall player.


Fair enough, but I see Jordan as such a fierce competitor that he could one-up Kobe in the scoring department, if it was questioned.

Why didn't he is the next question, right? :biggrin:


----------



## Tragedy (Dec 9, 2002)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

"Marketing is a lovely invention"

Sarcasm by Kareem Abdul-Jabbar


----------



## HB (May 1, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

No one can convince me Kobe was better than Wilt

All jokes aside, when Kobe stops playing, this man is going to cause some serious debates amongst bball fans


----------



## xray (Feb 21, 2005)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



HB said:


> No one can convince me Kobe was better than Wilt
> 
> All jokes aside, when Kobe stops playing, this man is going to cause some serious debates amongst bball fans


Not between MJ and Kobe - I see Kobe as an offshoot at best.


----------



## magohaydz (Dec 21, 2005)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



xray said:


> Not between MJ and Kobe - I see Kobe as an offshoot at best.


I see it going the other way. In 10 years time people will be arguing that kobe was equal to or better than Jordan. Who knows? By then people might believe it - on the other hand, in 10 years time Kobe might still be playing, have a couple more rings, some more scoring titles, some regular and finals MVP's and then the arguments wouldnt be that unjustified. Only time will tell.


----------



## Air Jordan 23 (Dec 12, 2006)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Right now, Kobe is in his prime. He's already been in the League 10 years, and I don't see him getting much better. Maybe, as his physical skills start to deteriorate, he'll get even smarter. But you can already see he's not the same physically as he was a few years back, which is partially due to knee injury.

He may be, what, 28, but he's still got 10 years of wear and tear on his body.


----------



## cadarn (Feb 1, 2006)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Kobe isn't even the greatest scorer of all time, let alone anywhere near the greatest player. I'm sick of these morons who don't understand the nba existed before 1995


----------



## Blink4 (Jan 17, 2005)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



cadarn said:


> Kobe isn't even the greatest scorer of all time, let alone anywhere near the greatest player. I'm sick of these morons who don't understand the nba existed before 1995


This isnt just at you, but to some others in this thread as well. NO ONE IS SAYING THAT KOBE IS THE GREATEST PLAYER EVER. People are saying that he is in the argument for best scorer ever. So chill


----------



## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Strawman arguments are awesome. 

I can't believe that people are actually saying Kobe isn't even a top 10 shooting guard in the league right now. I sick of people saying that he isn't even as good as guys like Ginobili or Hamilton.


----------



## compsciguy78 (Dec 16, 2002)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

You guys are seriously underrating Kobe.

Right now he is 13th all time in PPG!

Listen to the Rick Barry interview on Kobes NBA home page

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/kobe_bryant/index.html

He mentions how he believes Kobe is a better scorer then Jerry West which I agree with!

Kobe can pass Kareem pretty easily if he plays another 10 years and it won't be that hard. He would be 38 which is how younger then MJ when he quit.

Kobe is making a serious push to be the best scorer in NBA history and if he passes Kareem and notches 81 you might look like a fool for doubting him.

Peace out
dont page me


----------



## compsciguy78 (Dec 16, 2002)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Sir Patchwork said:


> Strawman arguments are awesome.
> 
> I can't believe that people are actually saying Kobe isn't even a top 10 shooting guard in the league right now. I sick of people saying that he isn't even as good as guys like Ginobili or Hamilton.



Patch...I'm with you on Kobe. 81 opened my eyes. The guy is a scoring machine!
He should just change his jersey to 81. That number is ****ing cool.

Peace out
Dont hate me because I used to say Kobe wasn't team player...he still isn't winner jordan was...

If Steve Nash died today he would be the best player ever using Drazen petrovic is the greatest Euro logic


----------



## Mightytoo (Mar 20, 2007)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



xray said:


> Nobody will ever, ever be able to convince me that Kobe is superior to MJ.
> 
> Never. :nonono:


Me neither! MJ's still the greatest ever basketball player to date.


----------



## Prolific Scorer (Dec 16, 2005)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Jordan was more physically gifted at 28

Kobe has a broader arsonal of moves offensively.

pick your poison


----------



## ralaw (Feb 24, 2005)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



HB said:


> No one can convince me Kobe was better than Wilt
> 
> All jokes aside, when Kobe stops playing, this man is going to cause some serious debates amongst bball fans


Sadly you are correct, but that has less to do with his basketball abilities and qualifications. A layer of Kobe's legacy will be a microcosm of our societies desire to feel as if we personally know these athletes. Outside of Bonds and Terrell Owens, no other athlete in sports is hated like Kobe. It seems whatever Kobe does people take it personal and this is sad. At the end of his career Kobe will have every qualification needed to place him among the elite players of this game, and this eats at people’s soul.


----------



## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



ralaw said:


> Sadly you are correct, but that has less to do with his basketball abilities and qualifications. A layer of Kobe's legacy will be a microcosm of our societies desire to feel as if we personally know these athletes. Outside of Bonds and Terrell Owens, no other athlete in sports is hated like Kobe. It seems whatever Kobe does people take it personal and this is sad. At the end of his career Kobe will have every qualification needed to place him among the elite players of this game, and this eats at people’s soul.


I agree very well said. 

I think this will make him possibly the most underrated player to ever play the game. because the appreciation of his game will be overlooked by fans who just hate the guy for reason not performance related.


----------



## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



kflo said:


> everyone knows mj was the best everything at everything. and i can't be convinced otherwise.


Remember that one movie he did with Bugs Bunny and Bill Murray?

Best movie of all-time, ever.


----------



## Jizzy (Aug 24, 2005)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



cadarn said:


> Kobe isn't even the greatest scorer of all time, let alone anywhere near the greatest player. I'm sick of these morons who don't understand the nba existed before 1995



Short, sweet and to the point.


----------



## Jizzy (Aug 24, 2005)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



compsciguy78 said:


> Patch...I'm with you on Kobe. 81 opened my eyes. The guy is a scoring machine!
> He should just change his jersey to 81. That number is ****ing cool.
> 
> Peace out
> ...



That is your logic. You are the one that made that up. Basically, you just called your thinking retarded.


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Can any of the people arguing Kobe as not the greatest of all time show one post here where someone said he was the greatest of all time?

I think it's silly to get caught up in Jordan's aura to where you can't even compare players to him. Right now, I'd agree with Patchwork and say Kobe is more prone to explosive outbursts than Jordan, but that's about it when you go down the list. When you note Kobe's arsenal and moves, you have to realize that he got most of _those_from Jordan in the first place, meaning Jordan had and perfected them first. Jordan and Kobe are both top flight scorers all-time, but Jordan has still proven to be a consistently greater scorer.


----------



## Real (Aug 3, 2005)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Air Jordan 23 said:


> Right now, Kobe is in his prime. He's already been in the League 10 years, and I don't see him getting much better. Maybe, as his physical skills start to deteriorate, he'll get even smarter. But you can already see he's not the same physically as he was a few years back, which is partially due to knee injury.
> 
> He may be, what, 28, but he's still got 10 years of wear and tear on his body.


If he got any better he'd be putting up Wilt and Jodan numbers. 

Is he up there with them? I don't think so, but I'm sure some on this forum would argue he is...


----------



## Phenom Z28 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

24 at the half... He just hit a three from almost half court. I think he's going for 50 for the third straight game.


----------



## magohaydz (Dec 21, 2005)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Phenom Z28 said:


> 24 at the half... He just hit a three from almost half court. I think he's going for 50 for the third straight game.


Youre a bit of a metal head I see.... \m/


----------



## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Well, Kobe has 43 points right now after three quarters...


----------



## Phenom Z28 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

This is unreal... We're watching one of the best single player scoring weeks in NBA history.


magohaydz said:


> Youre a bit of a metal head I see.... \m/


:headbang:


----------



## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

43 points at the end of the 3rd and he hits a 2 + and1 to start the 4th quarter. Heh.


----------



## 23isback (Mar 15, 2006)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

46! Are U ****ing Kidding Me?!


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

He's definitely taking it upon himself to put that dirty talk in the past.


----------



## fruitcake (Mar 20, 2005)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

holy ****


----------



## Phenom Z28 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

"Kobe Bryant becomes the fourth player in NBA history to hit the 50 point mark in three consecutive games."

The Memphis crowd is cheering for him!


----------



## fruitcake (Mar 20, 2005)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

kobe has the hornets tomorrow...


----------



## 23isback (Mar 15, 2006)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

50.


----------



## kisstherim (Jul 15, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

oh, man, 50 pts again:worthy:


----------



## 23isback (Mar 15, 2006)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



kisstherim said:


> who are the other 3? (I guess Wilt must be one of them)


Jordan is another.


----------



## kisstherim (Jul 15, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Phenom Z28 said:


> "Kobe Bryant becomes the fourth player in NBA history to hit the 50 point mark in three consecutive games."


who are the other 3? (I guess Wilt must be one of them)


----------



## Phenom Z28 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Baylor, Jordan, and I think Wilt by default.


----------



## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Not only is it three 50+ games in a row, which is silly just by itself, but it could also be three wins in a row depending on the outcome tonight. Huge, considering how badly the Lakers have struggled recently.


----------



## 23isback (Mar 15, 2006)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

another 60 point game?


----------



## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



kisstherim said:


> who are the other 3? (I guess Wilt must be one of them)


Wilt Chamberlain
Elgin Baylor
Michael Jordan


----------



## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Hell, forget 50, the guy's about to get 60 again.


----------



## kisstherim (Jul 15, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



23isback said:


> another 60 point game?


looks like so


----------



## fruitcake (Mar 20, 2005)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

* Most Consecutive 50 Point Games (NBA Season):

7 times by Wilt Chamberlain, from December 16, 1961-December 29, 1961


----------



## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Kobe is unreal.


----------



## Phenom Z28 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



fruitcake said:


> * Most Consecutive 50 Point Games (NBA Season):
> 
> 7 times by Wilt Chamberlain, from December 16, 1961-December 29, 1961


:lol: :eek8: I don't think any player will do that again...


----------



## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Phenom Z28 said:


> :lol: :eek8: I don't think any player will do that again...


There are many things Wilt has done that no NBA player will literally ever do again, barring some significant rule changes.


----------



## Carbo04 (Apr 15, 2005)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Kobe just showing he can do what he wants when he wants. Just making sure we remember who the best on the planet is.


----------



## Theonee (Dec 5, 2006)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

And I thought Carmelo had the scoring title locked up.


----------



## jordan0386 (Jul 4, 2006)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Now its like, I look at the schedule, and I ponder..."oh yea, he can get 50 on them"

Nuts


----------



## Theonee (Dec 5, 2006)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Phenom Z28 said:


> :lol: :eek8: I don't think any player will do that again...


How the hell did Wilt average 50 points for a season.


----------



## fruitcake (Mar 20, 2005)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Phenom Z28 said:


> :lol: :eek8: I don't think any player will do that again...


after the hornets, he has golden state and them memphis again. he could drop 50 against those 3. (which is 6 total) but the next game is houston and he might have some trouble dropping 50 against them.


----------



## fruitcake (Mar 20, 2005)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

60. looks like Lakers should win too.


----------



## Phenom Z28 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Sixty! christ...

Kwame also with a rare good game.


----------



## kisstherim (Jul 15, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

60 pts, done:worthy:


----------



## Greg Ostertag! (May 1, 2003)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Kobe Bryant is the single greatest player in the history...




of the game between LAL/MEM on March 22, 2007


----------



## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Kobe with 60! 3rd player in NBA history to have at least 4 games of 60 or more!


----------



## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

See, this is what I was talking about. Kobe has effectively desensitized us to individual, high-scoring performances. 65 then 50 then 60. I'm telling you, someone will have to score 70 from now on to get much attention at all. 60 point games are passe.


----------



## Theonee (Dec 5, 2006)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



fruitcake said:


> after the hornets, he has golden state and them memphis again. he could drop 50 against those 3. (which is 6 total) but the next game is houston and he might have some trouble dropping 50 against them.


He did drop 50 plus on them in one of the earlier games this season.


----------



## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



fruitcake said:


> after the hornets, he has golden state and them memphis again. he could drop 50 against those 3. (which is 6 total) but the next game is houston and he might have some trouble dropping 50 against them.


Hornets might be trouble. They defend Kobe better than almost any team in the league for some reason. He has put up some stinkers against them. Although history has shown with any great scorer that defense isn't all that relevant when they're hot. So who knows.


----------



## Phenom Z28 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Spriggan said:


> There are many things Wilt has done that no NBA player will literally ever do again


Definitely true...they were showing most career 60 point games, Wilt had 32 and next closest players had 4 (Kobe and Michael).


----------



## fruitcake (Mar 20, 2005)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Theonee said:


> He did drop 50 plus on them in one of the earlier games this season.


well in that case seven 50 pt games can be done

but Houston is on a freakin roll right now. They are destroying Detroit.


----------



## Theonee (Dec 5, 2006)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Why do people keep on bringing that Kobe is not the greatest player of all time. No one said he is. I am huge Kobe fan and Jordan fan, and I think Kobe has a long way to go to be considered all time great. But as far as offensive game is concerned he is right up there along with Jordan,and Wilt.


----------



## Phenom Z28 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Oh shat, chance for OT!


----------



## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Two 60-point games in one week...that's just ridiculous. And the Lakers are 3-0 in this last week.


----------



## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Kobe is unreal.


----------



## fruitcake (Mar 20, 2005)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

uh oh kobe...


----------



## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Apparently, whenever the NCAA Tournament is going on, Kobe steals the headlines.


----------



## fruitcake (Mar 20, 2005)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

game


----------



## Phenom Z28 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



fruitcake said:


> well in that case seven 50 pt games can be done
> 
> but Houston is on a freakin roll right now. *They are destroying Detroit.*


Not anymore


----------



## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Kobe has brought his average from 29.1 to 30.4 in three games, and we're 5 months/60 games into the season. Pretty crazy. 

Averaging 58 points over those three games, on 54.5% from the field. Kobe had one of the worst weeks or two stretches of his career before doing this. I guess he found his stroke.


----------



## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

We are witnessing greatness. Better recognize.


----------



## fruitcake (Mar 20, 2005)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Phenom Z28 said:


> Not anymore


wow what a turnaround. they were up by 20+ at the time of my post lol


----------



## Imdaman (Nov 29, 2006)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

gasol scores 35 and miller scores 33 and they still lose. Those kobe haters at my job are going to hate me tommorrow.


----------



## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Kobe is lethal. He's in such a groove right now he looks more athletic than he did just about a week ago, his energy level is being fueled by what he's doing. 

he's the best in the league right now there just isn't anyone capable of doing what he's doing. 

His fitness level is just amazing, the 65 pt game came on a back to back. 

simply amazing.


----------



## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Unimpressed. Ridiculous chucking against ridiculously bad teams.


----------



## jordan0386 (Jul 4, 2006)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

IMO, part of this, is shutting up Gilbert..."I do it...to do it"

of course, he trying to get his team in the playoffs, better positioning and all that, but Arenas is partly to blame for this onslaught too, lol


----------



## Jordan23Forever (May 14, 2005)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Phenom Z28 said:


> Definitely true...they were showing most career 60 point games, Wilt had 32 and next closest players had 4 (Kobe and Michael).


Just FYI, Jordan had 5. He had 4 by age 27 and didn't have another after age 29.


----------



## Phenom Z28 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Jordan23Forever said:


> Just FYI, Jordan had 5. He had 4 by age 27 and didn't have another after age 29.


They were just talking about regular season.


----------



## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Well the Lakers are locked into the 6th or 7th seed. I think it's pretty safe to say they're going to be playing the Spurs...


----------



## OneBadLT123 (Oct 4, 2005)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



fruitcake said:


> wow what a turnaround. they were up by 20+ at the time of my post lol


Yeah Detroit was not getting crap done tonight, the Rockets defense cooled off, and Detroit was bound to make a run. Oh well they still won...



But anyway, 
Kobe has just been insane this week. Crazy performances back to back to back...


----------



## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



SPMJ said:


> Unimpressed. Ridiculous chucking against ridiculously bad teams.


Of course. Doesn't matter that Kobe's been very efficient and his team has won all three games, and that Phil's given him the green light to shoot. Why would that matter?


----------



## Theonee (Dec 5, 2006)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

If his shooting % is bad, then I will get mad, but can't blame a guy for shooting over 50% while going to the line more than 13 times per game.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic (Jul 19, 2005)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



SPMJ said:


> Unimpressed. Ridiculous chucking against ridiculously bad teams.


Rediculous hate against a rediculously good player.... 


wow..


----------



## KDOS (Nov 29, 2005)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Spriggan said:


> Of course. Doesn't matter that Kobe's been very efficient and his team has won all three games, and that Phil's given him the green light to shoot. Why would that matter?





CubanLaker said:


> Rediculous hate against a rediculously good player....
> 
> 
> wow..


Somewhere out there, that guy is having a blast getting on all your nerves, just ignore it and dont pay attention to him, its the best way to piss people who are looking for attention.


----------



## 4BiddenKnight (Jun 23, 2005)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Jordan23Forever said:


> Just FYI, Jordan had 5. He had 4 by age 27 and didn't have another after age 29.


Man, I guarantee this, if people didn't compare Kobe and MJ, Kobe might have a much greater legacy than right now, where people go "OHHHHH it's just 58, Jordan can do better HAHAHAHA".


----------



## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



4BiddenKnight said:


> Man, I guarantee this, if people didn't compare Kobe and MJ, Kobe might have a much greater legacy than right now, where people go "OHHHHH it's just 58, Jordan can do better HAHAHAHA".


It's not just the scoring that made Jordan great. Do some history checking on Mr.23 Air Jordan. You will find that there's alot more to his game then just being one of the most prolific scoring machines in NBA history. There is a reason why Jordan is considered by many the greatest basketball player ever.


----------



## The Krakken (Jul 17, 2002)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



23AJ said:


> It's not just the scoring that made Jordan great. Do some history checking on Mr.23 Air Jordan. You will find that there's alot more to his game then just being one of the most prolific scoring machines in NBA history. There is a reason why Jordan is considered by many the greatest basketball player ever.


Best perimeter defender in the league, virtually every year in the league.
Best offensive player in the league virtually every year in the league.
Only magic had a stretch where he made his teammates better more often than Michael.

If I were to compare them, I'd say Kobe has a better 3 point shot, and slightly better handle, but that's it. MJ was WORLDS better inside of 20 ft, as his fadeaway was automatic, and he could get to the rim at will. And the numbers bear that out...they don't lie. The career FG% tells the tale. He was also a better defender by a significant margin, and faster--both with and without the ball--than Kobe.


----------



## Phenom Z28 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



4BiddenKnight said:


> Man, I guarantee this, if people didn't compare Kobe and MJ, Kobe might have a much greater legacy than right now, where people go "OHHHHH it's just 58, Jordan can do better HAHAHAHA".


 Just the fact that so many people are comparing them with credibility is adding to Kobe's legacy imo. I mean we're talking about a player who was considered to be one of the best athletes in the history of sports, how can that hurt to be compared to him?


----------



## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



The Krakken said:


> Best perimeter defender in the league, virtually every year in the league.
> Best offensive player in the league virtually every year in the league.
> Only magic had a stretch where he made his teammates better more often than Michael.
> 
> If I were to compare them, I'd say Kobe has a better 3 point shot, and slightly better handle, but that's it. MJ was WORLDS better inside of 20 ft, as his fadeaway was automatic, and he could get to the rim at will. And the numbers bear that out...they don't lie. The career FG% tells the tale. He was also a better defender by a significant margin, and faster--both with and without the ball--than Kobe.


Mj overall is a little bit better player, He's alittle more athletic getting to the hoop with his 1st step, but Kobe has more range, better handles and a better mid range game. 

You seem to be getting revisionist about MJ's mid range game its not nearly as potent as Kobe's. 

Mj got waay more open court opportunities because of his defense and because of the quality of their defensive teams. Kobe's team hardly ever gets in transition they play halfcourt almost all game long. 

Mj because of his criminally quick 1st step always had a step or 2 between him and his man plus there wasn't the zone defense so the on ball defender had to give him room, with that room he walked into his mid range game alittle easier. Kobe gets jammed because the defense behind his man is waiting to cut off the drives. So he shoots more contested jumpers and makes them more often than MJ. 

Boh have great mid range games Kobe is forced to rely on his more and is more effective with it as a weapon. 

Defense is MJ's big advantage. He's the greatest man defender in league history he just smothered guys, he had an insane ability to guad the smaller quicker pg's. 

Kobe is a really good defender himself just not in MJ's class. 

Whats funny though back in 97-98 Mj had trouble guarding Kobe and mentioned it after a couple games guarding Kobe he talked about Kobe's reportoire of moves, a big complement he paid Kobe, when Mj was still in his prime or slightly passed it.


----------



## Air Jordan 23 (Dec 12, 2006)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



The Krakken said:


> Best perimeter defender in the league, virtually every year in the league.
> Best offensive player in the league virtually every year in the league.
> Only magic had a stretch where he made his teammates better more often than Michael.
> 
> If I were to compare them, I'd say Kobe has a better 3 point shot, and slightly better handle, but that's it. MJ was WORLDS better inside of 20 ft, as his fadeaway was automatic, and he could get to the rim at will. And the numbers bear that out...they don't lie. The career FG% tells the tale. He was also a better defender by a significant margin, and faster--both with and without the ball--than Kobe.



Bingo.


----------



## Air Jordan 23 (Dec 12, 2006)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



jazzy1 said:


> Mj overall is a little bit better player, He's alittle more athletic getting to the hoop with his 1st step, but Kobe has more range, better handles and a better mid range game.
> 
> You seem to be getting revisionist about MJ's mid range game its not nearly as potent as Kobe's.


You're kidding, right? I could see you saying Kobe's a better 3-point shooter, but mid-range? No sir. 



> Mj got waay more open court opportunities because of his defense and because of the quality of their defensive teams. Kobe's team hardly ever gets in transition they play halfcourt almost all game long.
> 
> Mj because of his criminally quick 1st step always had a step or 2 between him and his man plus there wasn't the zone defense so the on ball defender had to give him room, with that room he walked into his mid range game alittle easier. Kobe gets jammed because the defense behind his man is waiting to cut off the drives. So he shoots more contested jumpers and makes them more often than MJ.
> 
> ...


I seem to remember Kobe having trouble guarding MJ, also. Remember, that year MJ was 35, slightly past his physical prime.


----------



## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

people do like to mix and match with jordan though. his mid-range game got better as he got older, when his penetration game got worse. the more he relied on his mid-range game (and part of that was simply a function of his role within the triangle), the more his efficiency suffered.


----------



## Seuss (Aug 19, 2005)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Kobe is good.

I find myself unimpressed because Kobe has set his bar high. That says alot.
When a guy scores 65 points and the first thing that comes to my mind is "That's it?" 

You know you're good when impressing somebody becomes nearly impossible.


----------



## cadarn (Feb 1, 2006)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Let's not forget his scoring runs always come against the worst teams. Not impressed.


----------



## Bartholomew Hunt (Mar 4, 2003)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



cadarn said:


> Let's not forget his scoring runs always come against the worst teams. Not impressed.


62 in three quarters against the Mavs. Kobe can do this against any team. Try something else to descredit these performances, hater.


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Bartholomew Hunt said:


> 62 in three quarters against the Mavs. Kobe can do this against any team. Try something else to descredit these performances, hater.


*waits for FG percentage to be brought up*


----------



## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



_Dre_ said:


> *waits for FG percentage to be brought up*


They wouldn't bring up FG% for this 3-game stretch, it's too high. His eFG% is even higher. The best they will and can do is either say he did it against bad teams, or that he shot too much. They can't even mention assists, since he's been getting a few of those, too. Must suck to be a Kobe hater these days.


----------



## Phenom Z28 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Has anyone ever had consecutive 60 point nights? Kobe looks like he's on a mission...if he catches the ball then he's shooting it, like a black hole or something.


----------



## Tragedy (Dec 9, 2002)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

All the "haters" would be salivating if Kobe played for their teams. Period.


----------



## compsciguy78 (Dec 16, 2002)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Can Kobe drop 51 when he's 38 years old? Too bad we have to wait another 10 years...hahahaha


Kobe is seriously off the hook. As far as pure scoring goes he is unmatched in todays game and is definitely top 5 scorer of all-time. 

Is Kobe a better scorer then Jordan??? 
It's like asking is Stevie Ray Vaughan better then Jimi Hendrix on guitar??? Both are masters of the instrument and can light up anyone else and on any given night could outshine each other. 

I wanna see Kobe at 38 years old. I seriously think he could break the all time scoring record if he stays in shape. If he breaks Kareems record he is the greatest scorer of all-time!


----------



## Tersk (Apr 9, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

17 points with 9 minutes left in the Second Quarter

Make that 19


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic (Jul 19, 2005)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Kobe with 21 in 21 minutes


----------



## Phenom Z28 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Well...you can book that as 4 games in a row...


----------



## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Haha, this is silly. Kobe's jumper is money and he's slashing at will. He's got 27 at the half, watch him get 60 again.

And Sasha, stop shooting. My god. This is why you can't mind Kobe shooting a lot all that much.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic (Jul 19, 2005)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Kobe with 27 in the 1st half!


----------



## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Darrell Walker, the Hornets' assistant coach, just said at halftime: "He's very much capable of beating us by himself" about Kobe, and said it twice in a row. Inspiring coach, eh?


----------



## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Anyone could score 58 points per game if they got to take 37 shots a game.

By the way, a 3.3 assist per game average? Kobe's become Isiah Rider. Minus the passing ability.


----------



## Bartholomew Hunt (Mar 4, 2003)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Kobe is going to be trapped from here on out. If guys like Sasha and Farmar can't make those wide open threes, the Lakers are in trouble.


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Minstrel said:


> Anyone could score 58 points per game if they got to take 37 shots a game.
> 
> By the way, a 3.3 assist per game average? Kobe's become Isiah Rider. Minus the passing ability.


:laugh:....:uhoh:...?


----------



## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Nice edit, Dre. But we all saw how you took Minstrel's comments at face value at first, before quickly realizing your mistake and switching it up to a laughing smiley. Good try, though.


----------



## Wilt_The_Stilt (Jun 7, 2002)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Steve Nash could not make Sasha better.


----------



## Like A Breath (Jun 16, 2003)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Minstrel said:


> Anyone could score 58 points per game if they got to take 37 shots a game.
> 
> By the way, a 3.3 assist per game average? Kobe's become Isiah Rider. Minus the passing ability.


He stole his dunk, now he's stealing his game!:eek8:


----------



## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Man, he's gonna get 60 again. Wtf? This is unbelievable. He has 33 with 10 mins left in the 3rd quarter.


----------



## 23isback (Mar 15, 2006)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

On pace for 54. wow i want this man's babies.


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Spriggan said:


> Nice edit, Dre. But we all saw how you took Minstrel's comments at face value at first, before quickly realizing your mistake and switching it up to a laughing smiley. Good try, though.


Jeez, don't you have better stuff to do than make up crap about me?


----------



## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Holy.

****.

37.


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Just for kicks, where does AI rank as a scorer?


----------



## Husstla (Nov 5, 2006)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

AI avgs more for career.


37. That was a sick 3. He's getting 70 tonight


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Man, what the **** are you doing ESPN, I could be watching this!


----------



## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Not only is he on fire... He's untouchable as well...


----------



## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

I don't even have NBA TV, but whatever the hell channel INHD is, thanks for carrying NBA TV games.


----------



## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Husstla said:


> AI avgs more for career.


At considerably lower efficiency. Plus Bryant started his career as a teenage bench player and then played as the second option to Shaq.

Iverson is one of the major volume scorers in history, but not nearly as great a scorer as someone like Bryant or many others.


----------



## Husstla (Nov 5, 2006)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

C mon give the ball to Kobe he hasnt attempted a shot in 3 mins!


----------



## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Spriggan said:


> I don't even have NBA TV, but whatever the hell channel INHD is, thanks for carrying NBA TV games.


Yeah, I made that discovery too, a few months ago. I think it's an HD sampler, so sometimes it shows what NBA TV is showing.


----------



## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Kobe's quite efficient tonight, too. He's 13-21 from the field.


----------



## Husstla (Nov 5, 2006)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

39....what a move, over two guys


----------



## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

He's going to drop 50... This game is getting out of hand, the Hornets are playing really dumb right now. It will be a double digit lead by the fourth... But there's no way Phil pulls Kobe...


----------



## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Yeah, and he just hit a three. 42 points, 14-22 from the field, 4:30 left in the 3rd quarter.


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

..he's almost there...


----------



## Theonee (Dec 5, 2006)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



_Dre_ said:


> Jeez, don't you have better stuff to do than make up crap about me?


:lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Kobe's in a zone that I've not even seen Jordan in. He just caught an inbounds on the sideline, paused and then threw up a three over a defender..swish.

It's like he can't miss, no matter what shots he takes.


----------



## Husstla (Nov 5, 2006)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

41. God? Mvp?


----------



## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

The Lakers need to allow points as often as they can to keep this close enough to leave Kobe in. I want to see him play a full game.


----------



## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Don't sit him, Phil.


----------



## Husstla (Nov 5, 2006)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Minstrel said:


> The Lakers need to allow points as often as they can to keep this close enough to leave Kobe in. I want to see him play a full game.


I don't think he would let Phil Jackson take him out no matter what. He's going for 60


----------



## Phenom Z28 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Here comes 60 again.... I'm giggling like a schoolgirl irl right now. Hitting 60 in 3 of 4 games...>WTF is going on!


----------



## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Minstrel said:


> The Lakers need to allow points as often as they can to keep this close enough to leave Kobe in. I want to see him play a full game.


Not gonna matter... No way Kobe gets pulled even if they're up 20+


----------



## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Husstla said:


> I don't think he would let Phil Jackson take him out no matter what. He's going for 60


If he gets 60 tonight, does that clinch it? Is he a better scorer than Jordan?


----------



## Phenom Z28 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Husstla said:


> I don't think he would let Phil Jackson take him out no matter what. He's going for 60


Phil would if he thought it was appropriate. Remember the 62 against Dallas? A couple of other 50+ point games through 3 quarters where he took the 4th off because the Lakers were up so much before in his career too.


----------



## magic_bryant (Jan 11, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Minstrel said:


> Kobe's in a zone that I've not even seen Jordan in. He just caught an inbounds on the sideline, paused and then threw up a three over a defender..swish.
> 
> It's like he can't miss, no matter what shots he takes.


It's as my favorite poster here, Sir Patchwork says, when he's on - there's simply not a more dynamic player than Kobe. 

I agree with you, Minstrel. This is unreal. He is literally "choosing" to throw in 50s, and quite possibly 60 tonight, just to assure that his team doesn't fall any further in the standings. 

This game is on the 2nd night of a back-to-back in which Kobe played 40+ minutes, shot the ball 37 times, scored 60, and dude is STILL hitting the shots like they're nothing.

Jordan has his flu games. 

Kobe doesn't. He shows no signs of fatigue, whether he is or not. His mental stamina is simply unmatched.


----------



## Theonee (Dec 5, 2006)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Phil has done this twice and almost cost the Lakers two games. Once against Houston, he pulled out all the starters with lakers leading by double digits and the game had to go to over time. And last week, he took Kobe out with lakers leading and Lakers won only by 2.


----------



## Husstla (Nov 5, 2006)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Spriggan said:


> If he gets 60 tonight, does that clinch it? Is he a better scorer than Jordan?


No


----------



## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

44... and he misses!!!! Wow!


----------



## Husstla (Nov 5, 2006)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

No he's benched...i wanted him to play all 48 mins


----------



## magic_bryant (Jan 11, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Am I the only one that is more amazed when Kobe actually misses?


----------



## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

This is a farce. I think teams are just letting Kobe score, like the Clippers rolling over for D-Rob. A Stern mandate?


----------



## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Oh and btw... Mason has the WORST free-throw shot in NBA history... Forget Shaq... Mason is awful... 

O and btw the Laker commentator goes "And listen to that ovation for Kobe" and all you can hear is "booooooooo" Good call buddy


----------



## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Minstrel said:


> This is a farce. I think teams are just letting Kobe score, like the Clippers rolling over for D-Rob. A Stern mandate?


Okay...bigger farce: Luke Walton shooting the ball instead of Kobe.


----------



## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

It would be three 60 point performances in four games, with that other game being 50 points. Has Jordan ever had a stretch like that? Let's not forget that Kobe once had nine 40 point games in a row, it isn't just what he's doing now. I think he's making a stronger argument for being a superior scorer to Jordan every game.


----------



## magic_bryant (Jan 11, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

9 straight 40s ties MJ. 13 straight 35+ beats MJ. 81 and 62 in 3. 65, 50, and 60 - MJ only had 3 straight 50s, never did he follow up a 60 with a 50. 

And if Kobe hangs another 60 tonight, he'll again have been the only player this side of Wilt Chamberlain to have had such a prolific scoring record - 4 straight games with 50+ points.


----------



## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Spriggan said:


> It would be three 60 point performances in four games, with that other game being 50 points. Has Jordan ever had a stretch like that? Let's not forget that Kobe once had nine 40 point games in a row, it isn't just what he's doing now. I think he's making a stronger argument for being a superior scorer to Jordan every game.


Well, Jordan had a 38 PPG _season_. I still can't conceive of Kobe pulling that off, or getting close. But Kobe's in that general caliber.


----------



## magic_bryant (Jan 11, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Hell, last year, Kobe became the only non-Wilt player to score 45+ points in 4 straight games.


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Thanks a lot NBA stream for working for Nets-Jazz but not this. ****.


----------



## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

In the third quarter:

Hornets: 18
Kobe: 17


----------



## compsciguy78 (Dec 16, 2002)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Its hard to touch Wilt Chamberlain but Kobe comes close. I think he is the best perimiter scorer ever. Jordan was better in many other categories.


----------



## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



magic_bryant said:


> 9 straight 40s ties MJ. 13 straight 35+ beats MJ. 81 and 62 in 3. 65, 50, and 60 - MJ only had 3 straight 50s, never did he follow up a 60 with a 50.
> 
> And if Kobe hangs another 60 tonight, he'll again have been the only player this side of Wilt Chamberlain to have had such a prolific scoring record - 4 straight games with 50+ points.


I don't get why people won't appreciate that there is a solid argument for Kobe. How many "the only player other than Wilt" or "only player other than MJ" records does he have? That means he's in the argument.


----------



## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Just triple Kobe... Teams have done it before and very effectively. Just gear your D around Kobe... They've been playing him one on one mostly... Only coming over to double when he dribbles inside or on a pick and roll. Just send guys at him...


----------



## kisstherim (Jul 15, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



_Dre_ said:


> Thanks a lot NBA stream for working for Nets-Jazz but not this. ****.


you can watch the game here, input "32398" to that blank


----------



## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

I think the problem people have with putting Kobe at best scorer is because his high scoring has come in seasons not synonymous with winning...


----------



## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Minstrel said:


> Well, Jordan had a 38 PPG _season_. I still can't conceive of Kobe pulling that off, or getting close. But Kobe's in that general caliber.


Wouldn't you consider 35.4 ppg relatively close? 3 ppg can be significant when you're comparing ppgs in the lower-mid 20s or so, but I think as you go higher that gap becomes exponentially less significant.


----------



## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Hornets are starting to get the idea of doubling Kobe as soon as he touches the ball... Only took them 3 quarters to figure it out.


----------



## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Spriggan said:


> Wouldn't you consider 35.4 ppg relatively close? 3 ppg can be significant when you're comparing ppgs in the lower-mid 20s or so, but I think as you go higher that gap becomes exponentially less significant.


Oh ****. I didn't realize he had scored that many last year. For some reason, I thought he had scored around 32 PPG.

Yes, that's close enough. Bryant could well be as good or better a scorer as Jordan, at least in a peak comparison. Jordan remained an insane scorer for years. Kobe will need to do that too.


----------



## el_Diablo (May 15, 2003)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Hibachi! said:


> Hornets are starting to get the idea of doubling Kobe as soon as he touches the ball... Only took them 3 quarters to figure it out.


he has scored what, 45 points on 66% shooting, and they didn't double him earlier?

smart.


----------



## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Lakers have gone cold in the 4th, Kobe included, though he hasn't taken many shots. But Luke, Sasha, and Farmar have bricked up an absolute ****storm. If the Lakers lose, it will be their fault exclusively.


----------



## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Man the Hornets cut it close... And then blow it again...


----------



## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Back to the line again... Looks like if he isn't going to get it shooting he's going to get it at the line...


----------



## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Minstrel said:


> Oh ****. I didn't realize he had scored that many last year. For some reason, I thought he had scored around 32 PPG.
> 
> Yes, that's close enough. Bryant could well be as good or better a scorer as Jordan, at least in a peak comparison. Jordan remained an insane scorer for years. Kobe will need to do that too.


True. Personally, I think what was most special about Jordan was his great consistency at such a high level.

Kobe has 50.


----------



## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Don't double him and he scores... Morons... I mean where is the IQ?


----------



## Husstla (Nov 5, 2006)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

50...too ****ing goood


----------



## magic_bryant (Jan 11, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

And another "Non-Wilt record" now belongs to Kobe - 4 consecutive games with 50+ points. 

How many of these does he have to have to prove himself?


----------



## kisstherim (Jul 15, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

:worthy: :worthy: :worthy:


----------



## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

David West off the floor=addition by subtraction


----------



## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Haha, cameras just caught a slightly unhappy Byron Scott throwing an F-bomb.


----------



## compsciguy78 (Dec 16, 2002)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

You are my new best friend...can you watch any channel with this???


----------



## rdm2 (Sep 17, 2005)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

He did it, Awesome! Respect.


----------



## Flash is the Future (May 12, 2006)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Wow. Kobe is unreal. If he keeps this up, you can forget about Nash or Dirk as MVP. No way you can deny him after this string of greatness. Kobe for MVP!


----------



## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

The Lakers have won all four games, too. That shouldn't be ignored, I don't care how bad the teams are. The Lakers were greatly struggling, and Phil told Kobe to start gunning. He's scored unbelievable amounts, and they've won every game he's done that.


----------



## magic_bryant (Jan 11, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

The conservative side of me says Kobe Bryant is a Top 15 player ever. 

But I'll go out on a limb and say that Kobe is Top 10 and will finish somewhere in the holy five with Wilt, MJ, Magic, and Kareem.


----------



## compsciguy78 (Dec 16, 2002)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Kobe GOAT yayayayayayayayayayayayayayayayayaya
hahahahahahahahahaahahahaahahahahahahahahahahaha
I love you Kobe!!!! I wanna make sex with you!


----------



## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Another 50 by Kobe... Can't say this one was as impressive... Got a couple of funky calls to get to the line to get the 50. But Kobe has set the bar so high that 50 doesn't impress me anymore


----------



## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Flash is the Future said:


> Wow. Kobe is unreal. If he keeps this up, you can forget about Nash or Dirk as MVP. No way you can deny him after this string of greatness. Kobe for MVP!


Uh, no. Nash is a winner, Kobe is just a scorer.

Dirk is a scorer/winner. A scorinner.

Anyway, Nash is the most valuable, because wins are more valuable than points.

Man. A guy scores 50 PPG for a bunch of games and suddenly all the Kobe fans crawl out of the woodwork. Wait til he goes back to scoring 30 PPG on 12 shots...you won't hear a peep from them.


----------



## compsciguy78 (Dec 16, 2002)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

I'm sorry but Jerry West couldn't hold Kobe's jockstrap when it comes to scoring. hahahaha

P.S. Rick Barry is my hero at the FT line!


----------



## Bartholomew Hunt (Mar 4, 2003)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Hibachi! said:


> Another 50 by Kobe... Can't say this one was as impressive... Got a couple of funky calls to get to the line to get the 50. But Kobe has set the bar so high that 50 doesn't impress me anymore


I'd say his latest outburst has been synanamous with winning. 4-0 during the streak.


----------



## Bartholomew Hunt (Mar 4, 2003)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



compsciguy78 said:


> I'm sorry but Jerry West couldn't hold Kobe's jockstrap when it comes to scoring. hahahaha
> 
> P.S. Rick Barry is my hero at the FT line!


Awwww, Kobe defers the credit to Luke/Lamar/Kwame coming back from injury. What a selfish and fake *****.


----------



## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Minstrel said:


> Uh, no. Nash is a winner, Kobe is just a scorer.
> 
> Dirk is a scorer/winner. A scorinner.
> 
> ...


:sigh: Another sarcasm post about Nash and Dirk not being MVP. How original


----------



## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Hibachi! said:


> :sigh: Another sarcasm post about Nash and Dirk not being MVP. How original


I have no problem with Dirk as MVP. Try again, kid.


----------



## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Where's Dre, to take Minstrel's post seriously?


----------



## Theonee (Dec 5, 2006)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

There is two annoying part, ones claiming that Kobe is the greatest ever and ones hating. Ones claiming Kobe is the greatest ever are making Kobe fans like me look bad, and haters, I don't even bother.


----------



## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Then you're post wouldn't make sense... You said "Nash is MVP because wins are more valuable than points" as a potshot at Nash. But Dirk has more wins... Either way you could make a case for Nash or Dirk

1a.Dirk
1b.Nash
-
-
-
-
-
3.Kobe
4.LeBron


----------



## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Hibachi! said:


> :sigh: Another sarcasm post about Nash and Dirk not being MVP. How original


you need to TAKE the award from nash, dammit. and you can't TAKE the award from nash by SHOOTING! MYTBB. make your teammates better, b!tch!


----------



## compsciguy78 (Dec 16, 2002)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

If Nash died in a plane crash today he would be the GOAT

P.S. Smush Parker would average 17ppg in the suns system


----------



## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

What separates Jordan from Kobe is scoring efficiency across a whole year.

Jordan was top 20 in scoring efficiency (ppfga) in something like 4 of the years he scored more then 30ppg (all of these top 20 came before his first retirement). Highest Kobe has had is in the top 40-45 range.

Still not too shabby when the only people can come up with better numbers is Wilt and a preretirement Jordan


----------



## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Kobe passed the ball up quite a bit tonight, but nobody on the perimeter except Odom could hit a thing. So no one better mention a certain stat.


----------



## afobisme (Apr 29, 2006)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Pioneer10 said:


> What separates Jordan from Kobe is scoring efficiency across a whole year.
> 
> Jordan was top 20 in scoring efficiency (ppfga) in something like 4 of the years he scored more then 30ppg. Highest Kobe has had is in the top 40-45 range.
> 
> Still not too shabby when the only people can come up with better numbers is Wilt and a preretirement Jordan


do you think this hasn't been said, after 25+ pges of posts?


----------



## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

kobe gets my mvp vote when next time his TEAMMATE goes for 30/20. that's MYTBB.


----------



## TakUrBalzBakFrmUrWife (Nov 9, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Hibachi! said:


> I think the problem people have with putting Kobe at best scorer is because his high scoring has come in seasons not synonymous with winning...


What exactly did the Bulls win when Jordan averaged 38????


----------



## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Hibachi! said:


> Then you're post wouldn't make sense... You said "Nash is MVP because wins are more valuable than points" as a potshot at Nash. But Dirk has more wins...


True. You see, MVP is really a more complicated formula of the best combination of lesser production but more wins. Dirk has more production, which cancels out his more wins. Nash is the perfect combination of lower production _and_ high wins.

But only a few people would really get that (I can PM you the longer formula, but it requires some differential equations knowledge and some David Eckstein knowledge), so I kinda made it quicker to digest for the masses. Thanks for challenging me on that clearly key point, so that I could explain it a bit more for the more statistically-inclined.


----------



## Bartholomew Hunt (Mar 4, 2003)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

I don't see Kobe as an MVP canidate at this point. The Mavs are going to win 60+ games with ease and the Lakers are not going to touch 50. Dirk and Nash are still the only contenders.


----------



## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Theonee said:


> There is two annoying part, ones claiming that Kobe is the greatest ever and ones hating. Ones claiming Kobe is the greatest ever are making Kobe fans like me look bad, and haters, I don't even bother.


Heh, nobody is saying Kobe is the greatest ever. Not one single person.


----------



## magic_bryant (Jan 11, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Just soak this in. Try to appreciate it and understand what the kid is doing. You can't, but at least try. 

10 years from now, you're gonna want to remember what it was like when telling your kids of these Kobe stories.


----------



## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Really the Lakers would get Greg Oden if Kobe wasn't on the team. He's the MVP or he should be, nash plays with 2 allstars,and the league's best 6th man and Dirk plays with 2 allstars and Terry and Harris. 

Kobe is definitely the leagues best player. And he should be MVP.


----------



## Theonee (Dec 5, 2006)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Spriggan said:


> Kobe passed the ball up quite a bit tonight, but nobody on the perimeter except Odom could hit a thing. So no one better mention a certain stat.


Yeah his team mates missed a lot of open jumpers.


----------



## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



kflo said:


> kobe gets my mvp vote when next time his TEAMMATE goes for 30/20. that's MYTBB.


:rofl:


----------



## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Spriggan said:


> Kobe passed the ball up quite a bit tonight, but nobody on the perimeter except Odom could hit a thing. So no one better mention a certain stat.


Nash passes the ball _and_ makes his teammates hit their shots.

Next excuse?


----------



## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



afobisme said:


> do you think this hasn't been said, after 25+ pges of posts?


 I was the first one to point it out though :wink:

In any case the bigger point was that I can't think of any scorer whose put up better numbers in terms of scoring possibly comes down to only 2 people in the history of the NBA (the 2 who are basically the only 2 consistently in the GOAT discussion): that's pretty darn good


----------



## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



magic_bryant said:


> Just soak this in. Try to appreciate it and understand what the kid is doing. You can't, but at least try.
> 
> 10 years from now, you're gonna want to remember what it was like when telling your kids of these Kobe stories.


I really believe that's the thing about Kobe...

IF Jordan hadn't win so many rings, 20 years removed from his playing days people would talk about the guy who dropped +60points on the Celtics in the playoffs.

With Kobe, it's the same thing: wether he wins a championship as the main man or not, we will all look back, 20 years from now, and remember Kobe's 81 poits game, and his other ridiculous offensive outbursts...


----------



## compsciguy78 (Dec 16, 2002)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Minstrel said:


> True. You see, MVP is really a more complicated formula of the best combination of lesser production but more wins. Dirk has more production, which cancels out his more wins. Nash is the perfect combination of lower production _and_ high wins.
> 
> But only a few people would really get that (I can PM you the longer formula, but it requires some differential equations knowledge and some David Eckstein knowledge), so I kinda made it quicker to digest for the masses. Thanks for challenging me on that clearly key point, so that I could explain it a bit more for the more statistically-inclined.


Bust out the DifEQ formulas.


----------



## Theonee (Dec 5, 2006)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



TakUrBalzBakFrmUrWife said:


> What exactly did the Bulls win when Jordan averaged 38????


40 wins, 42 losses.


----------



## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Minstrel said:


> True. You see, MVP is really a more complicated formula of the best combination of lesser production but more wins. Dirk has more production, which cancels out his more wins. Nash is the perfect combination of lower production _and_ high wins.
> 
> But only a few people would really get that (I can PM you the longer formula, but it requires some differential equations knowledge and some David Eckstein knowledge), so I kinda made it quicker to digest for the masses. Thanks for challenging me on that clearly key point, so that I could explain it a bit more for the more statistically-inclined.


Lesser production? At the very least Nash is responsible for 41 points a game. Sets the floor for his team, and they struggle mightily without him. How is that _lesser_ production? But w/e... There is no end to this debate. But the MVP can't go to a guy that was on a team with a 8 and 7 games losing streak. Lost 13 out of 16. And is on a team that's 8th best in the league at best. Regardless of this ridiculous 4 game stretch.


----------



## Bartholomew Hunt (Mar 4, 2003)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Kobe chews his gum like Mike. Wannabe.


----------



## compsciguy78 (Dec 16, 2002)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Jordan was more consistent. I value consistency. I also value Kobe doing what he does in todays NBA! Better athletes and possibly stupider as well.


----------



## TakUrBalzBakFrmUrWife (Nov 9, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Bartholomew Hunt said:


> *Kobe chews his gum like Mike*. Wannabe.


He uses his teeth too???

what a *******...


----------



## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Minstrel said:


> Nash passes the ball _and_ makes his teammates their shots.
> 
> Next excuse?


Kobe + Amare would be Kobe + Shaq part deux without the hostility. Plus Shawn Marion. Plus Boris Diaw. Barbosa. Bell. Good effort.


----------



## TakUrBalzBakFrmUrWife (Nov 9, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



compsciguy78 said:


> Jordan was more consistent. I value consistency. I also value Kobe doing what he does in todays NBA! Better athletes and possibly stupider as well.


How does a person average 30 plus a game and not be consistant???


----------



## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Hibachi! said:


> But the MVP can't go to a guy that was on a team with a 8 and 7 games losing streak. Lost 13 out of 16. And is on a team that's 8th best in the league at best. Regardless of this ridiculous 4 game stretch.


Well, I think if we _really_ tried ("we" as humans, not we here on this board), we could give the MVP award to the player who, by being the _best_ player, produces the most value. *P*layer producing the *M*ost *V*alue? PVM...so close!


----------



## el_Diablo (May 15, 2003)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



TakUrBalzBakFrmUrWife said:


> How does a person average 30 plus a game and not be consistant???


by scoring 11 in one game and 51 in another.


----------



## el_Diablo (May 15, 2003)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Minstrel said:


> Well, I think if we _really_ tried ("we" as humans, not we here on this board), we could give the MVP award to the player who, by being the _best_ player, produces the most value. *P*layer producing the *M*ost *V*alue? PVM...so close!


most valueproducing player


----------



## compsciguy78 (Dec 16, 2002)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



TakUrBalzBakFrmUrWife said:


> How does a person average 30 plus a game and not be consistant???


Do you prefer your tuna salad with mustard??


----------



## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



compsciguy78 said:


> Do you prefer your tuna salad with mustard??


That's disgusting.


----------



## Theonee (Dec 5, 2006)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

I will never judge a player on how many MVPs they have won, because most of the time it is purely subjective. As a matter of fact any award decided by voting is a flaw. For example, Person winning the American Idol is not always the best singer of the bunch, Oscar winners are not always the best performers, Great directors like Martin Scorcese never won an Oscar until this year. Great actor like Johny Depp never won an Oscar while, some other no namers have won.
Thats why I base by judgements on players talents and productivity, not on some awards voted by few writers. The writers are all human and they are biased and subjective. But again, thats just me.


----------



## Bartholomew Hunt (Mar 4, 2003)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



el_Diablo said:


> by scoring 11 in one game and 51 in another.


Nice edit. Kinda takes a little bit away from the sarcasm.


----------



## One on One (Dec 12, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

How can we even compare this? Just watching 80s or 90s basketball you see how Kobe is so much more stronger than those guys, he'd probably be scoring even more. Training is so different.


----------



## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

If Kobe had an Amare to Produce Value out of, would he be Most? Or is that question too easy?


----------



## el_Diablo (May 15, 2003)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Bartholomew Hunt said:


> Nice edit. Kinda takes a little bit away from the sarcasm.


yeah. but there was that "plus", that had to be accounted for..


----------



## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Minstrel said:


> Well, I think if we _really_ tried ("we" as humans, not we here on this board), we could give the MVP award to the player who, by being the _best_ player, produces the most value. *P*layer producing the *M*ost *V*alue? PVM...so close!


Not only do Nash and Dirk produce the most value, but they're also the most valuable player... But I don't think humans are capable of changing it to PMV. We haven't evolved that far yet. Perhaps after we solve the question of how the universe began and invent time travel we can change it to PMV.


----------



## compsciguy78 (Dec 16, 2002)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Theonee said:


> I will never judge a player on how many MVPs they have won, because most of the time it is purely subjective. As a matter of fact any award decided by voting is a flaw. For example, Person winning the American Idol is not always the best singer of the bunch, Oscar winners are not always the best performers, Great directors like Martin Scorcese never won an Oscar until this year. Great actor like Johny Depp never won an Oscar while, some other no namers have won.
> Thats why I base by judgements on players talents and productivity, not on some awards voted by few writers. The writers are all human and they are biased and subjective. But again, thats just me.



Great Post!

Judging something like this is flawed.

For example, try to judge music! Art, which basketball is in many ways, is hard to judge.
Every person has a different way of doing something. When both are equally effective and different who is better?


----------



## TakUrBalzBakFrmUrWife (Nov 9, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



el_Diablo said:


> by scoring 11 in one game and 51 in another.


and how often does that happen???

rarely if at all....people who average 30 plus points a game are NOT inconsistant....If they were inconsistant, they'd be averaging 20.....


----------



## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Spriggan said:


> If Kobe had an Amare to Produce Value out of, would he be Most? Or is that question too easy?


Nash made Amare a Value Producer. Remember, Amare wasn't anything special with Marbury, and then he became a beast with Nash.

Kobe should do the same. He can choose between Walton, Brown or Bynum.


----------



## TakUrBalzBakFrmUrWife (Nov 9, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



compsciguy78 said:


> Do you prefer your tuna salad with mustard??


YUP!! LOVE IT...


----------



## Knick Killer (Jul 16, 2006)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

if you score 50+ and your team barely wins...your no MVP.


----------



## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Hibachi! said:


> Not only do Nash and Dirk produce the most value, but they're also the most valuable player... But I don't think humans are capable of changing it to PMV. We haven't evolved that far yet. Perhaps after we solve the question of how the universe began and invent time travel we can change it to PMV.


You can't tell me that this lineup wouldn't destroy its way to a championship:

PG: Barbosa
SG: Kobe
SF: Diaw
PF: Marion
C: Amare

Small lineup. Won't really matter.

Even this:

PG: Barbosa
SG: Kobe
SF: Marion
PF: Amare
C: Thomas

With Diaw off the bench. That isn't just a nice paper team. And it's not like Kobe can't run. They'll also automatically be a better defensive team.


----------



## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Spriggan said:


> If Kobe had an Amare to Produce Value out of, would he be Most? Or is that question too easy?


Well if we go by this post



Spriggan said:


> Kobe + Amare would be Kobe + Shaq part deux without the hostility.


Amare would get all the MVP's and lead the team...


----------



## compsciguy78 (Dec 16, 2002)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Do you prefer vodka, rum, or whiskey?


----------



## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Hibachi! said:


> Well if we go by this post
> 
> 
> 
> Amare would get all the MVP's and lead the team...


Except Amare will never win MVP, since he has no scoring talent whatsoever. It's always someone making him better. Always. It would be Kobe making him better, and that combined with Kobe's scoring? Easiest MVP ever. I mean, he made Amare good. That's unbelievable.


----------



## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Theonee said:


> Great actor like Johny Depp never won an Oscar while, some other no namers have won.


Most astute observation in this thread. (It's "Johnny," though.)

If ever they make a movie of Kobe's life, I hope they have Depp play Kobe.


----------



## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Spriggan said:


> You can't tell me that this lineup wouldn't destroy its way to a championship:
> 
> PG: Barbosa
> SG: Kobe
> ...


Depends... Sans Amare and Marion, those other players might not be the players as we think of them today. It would be a different system that might not play to their strengths. Some whine about the system inflating players numbers. One even said if Smush was on the Suns he could average 17 a game. So if we took Boris, Barbosa, James Jones etc. and put them in a system that Kobe ran. They might not be the same player now would they?


----------



## compsciguy78 (Dec 16, 2002)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Spriggan said:


> You can't tell me that this lineup wouldn't destroy its way to a championship:
> 
> PG: Barbosa
> SG: Kobe
> ...



If you put Kobe with Amare and Marion you are talking championship.

You put Wade with Amare and Marion and would see Wade lead the league in assists. No doubt. Wade is the best PG in the game he makes Arenas look silly.


----------



## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



compsciguy78 said:


> he makes Arenas look silly.


Don't be ridiculous. *No one* makes Arenas look silly, except Arenas. And he wouldn't have it any other way.


----------



## ballistixxx (Jan 24, 2006)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

what the? kobe scored 50 again?!?! my God!


----------



## compsciguy78 (Dec 16, 2002)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Minstrel said:


> Most astute observation in this thread. (It's "Johnny," though.)
> 
> If ever they make a movie of Kobe's life, I hope they have Depp play Kobe.


George clooney is the best...just ask ninja

YouTube - Ask A Ninja 13: "Ninjas Hate George Clooney"


----------



## Adol (Nov 25, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Everyone bow down to Kobe!


----------



## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Hibachi! said:


> Depends... Sans Amare and Marion, those other players might not be the players as we think of them today. It would be a different system that might not play to their strengths. Some whine about the system inflating players numbers. One even said if Smush was on the Suns he could average 17 a game. So if we took Boris, Barbosa, James Jones etc. and put them in a system that Kobe ran. They might not be the same player now would they?


They would just run. It would be different from the system now, of course, but not significantly different. They'll run and with Kobe on the floor, people will be getting open shots by default. If James Jones was on the floor with Marion, Amare, and Kobe, he wouldn't have a defender within 10 feet of him.


----------



## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

I mean it's all in context... If Tom Brady wasn't on the Patriots would he be one of the greatest quarterbacks to play in the NFL? Probably not... He's not THAT great of a QB. But he was on a great team... He played in a great system, and he got acknowledgment for it. There may be great players stuck on ****ty teams but that doesn't mean much.


----------



## compsciguy78 (Dec 16, 2002)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

I think Kobe needs a vacation after tonight...phew

YouTube - Madtv Spoof on Kobe


----------



## hroz (Mar 4, 2006)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Now its a three way race Nowitzki Kobe Nash

And they are all about equal 

In fact I would rank them like this
tied 1.Nowitzki-Kobe
3.Nash


Kobe for MVP chants will be growing louder.
Staples centre last game of march for the rockets. The chants are going to be defeaning. Cant wait to watch it............


----------



## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Crazy. He is ballin' and there really isn't much else to say. Nobody is that surprised because it's Kobe. It's a bad time to be a hater, but hey, Nash could drop 50 every game if he wanted but he chooses to make his teammates better! I apologize in advance if you took offense to that, don't quote me and yell at me for it, thanks.


----------



## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Sir Patchwork said:


> but hey, Nash could drop 50 every game if he wanted but he chooses to make his teammates better! I apologize in advance if you took offense to that, don't quote me and yell at me for it, thanks.


I already took a potshot at Nash, but evidently it's not original to do so anymore.


----------



## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Hibachi! said:


> I mean it's all in context... If Tom Brady wasn't on the Patriots would he be one of the greatest quarterbacks to play in the NFL? Probably not... He's not THAT great of a QB. But he was on a great team... He played in a great system, and he got acknowledgment for it. There may be great players stuck on ****ty teams but that doesn't mean much.


This seems like an argument against Nash. He's on a great team, in a great system that fully utilizes and maximizes his obviously great talents, but he's not the best player in the league. I think most people at this point will agree that Kobe is the best player and has been for a while, and Nash is not #2, either. There are a few players over him. If Kobe leads his team to the playoffs (again), with those particular teammates, he should be the MVP. Particularly with his play recently, pulling the Lakers out of their drought.


----------



## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

In the last 4 games (all Laker wins), Kobe averaged:

- 56.25ppg;
- 54.29FG%;
- 51.52TP%;
- 93.34FT%;
- 6.25Rpg;
- 2.75Apg;
- 2.00Topg;
- 1.50Stp;


----------



## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Hibachi! said:


> I mean it's all in context... If Tom Brady wasn't on the Patriots would he be one of the greatest quarterbacks to play in the NFL? Probably not... He's not THAT great of a QB. But he was on a great team... He played in a great system, and he got acknowledgment for it. There may be great players stuck on ****ty teams but that doesn't mean much.


Kindly name two active quarterbacks that are better players than Brady.


----------



## ChosenFEW (Jun 23, 2005)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

I'd still give MVP to nowitski.... and i think kobe honestly would too..


kobe is the type of guy that would rather retire and not have won any MVP's and have people talk about how great he was to have never won an MVP etc.... how he was robbed in so and so years blah blah....

he just strikes me as that type of person....he has said that MVP awards aren't important to him and i actually believe when he says it too


----------



## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



 Premier said:


> Kindly name two active quarterbacks that are better players than Brady.


I can't. On the other hand, I think there's only one all-time great quarterback in this generation. Brady is an excellent quarterback, but nothing like a top-ten quarterback all-time. To me, he's more like a Phil Simms...one of the best quarterbacks at his peak, poised, intelligent and accurate. But not one of the greatest ever. Another good comp, IMO, is Troy Aikman minus the rocket arm. Brady has a good enough arm, but Aikman threw one of the prettiest deep balls ever. But Brady has Aikman's poise and accuracy.


----------



## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Premier said:


> Kindly name two active quarterbacks that are better players than Brady.


Well Manning is the easy choice... But people were putting him up there ALL time with the likes of Montana... I could also argue for Carson Palmer having better seasons recently than Brady...


----------



## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Hibachi! said:


> Well Manning is the easy choice... But people were putting him up there ALL time with the likes of Montana... I could also argue for Carson Palmer having better seasons recently than Brady...


Yeah, Palmer's not there yet, but I think he's more talented than Brady.


----------



## dastrey (Dec 30, 2003)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

It's funny how people look at a team's win total and then decide whether or not a player is an MVP canidate. Just as a point of reference look at Chauncey Billups. A year ago many people had Chauncey as an MVP canidate because he was considered the best player on the best team(during the regular season). Now that Ben Wallace has left, we haven't heard a peep about him. Chauncey is playing just as well as he was last year, but the team around him isn't as good.

Take a look at Steve Nash. Dude was never mentioned as an MVP canidate in Dallas, and then he magically elevates his play to an MVP level in one year; nevermind the fact that he is in the perfect system(don't waste energy on defense), with the perfect teammates(2 Allstars and a 6th man canidate) for him to rack up assists.

I really would like to know the chances of Nash or Dirk winning an MVP with a team consisting of underachievers and D-League level talent. They could play their hearts out, break NBA records, and still wouldn't get considered for the MVP because of their team's record.


----------



## magic_bryant (Jan 11, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Back-to-back on the road, and kid puts up 60 and 50. Teams know that he's wanting to score, but he continues to do so. Didn't even hit that many "omg" shots. Just worked himself into good spots and took the (mostly) high percentage shots. 

Amazing.


----------



## unluckyseventeen (Feb 5, 2006)

*Kobe goes for 50 AGAIN!! (4th time)*

Dude is possessed. He netted another 50 again tonight vs the Hornets.

What has gotten into this guy?


----------



## Theonee (Dec 5, 2006)

*Re: Kobe goes for 50 AGAIN!! (4th time)*

We already have three threads on Kobe.


----------



## 23isback (Mar 15, 2006)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Spriggan said:


> Except Amare will never win MVP, since he has no scoring talent whatsoever.


Quite the tangent you've gone on but this is just bull****. Amare is the best finisher in the post in the entire nba. Not only does he dominate the paint, he also has a 15-17 foot jump shot. When he gets to the line he shoots nearly 80%.


----------



## TakUrBalzBakFrmUrWife (Nov 9, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



dastrey said:


> It's funny how people look at a team's win total and then decide whether or not a player is an MVP canidate. Just as a point of reference look at Chauncey Billups. A year ago many people had Chauncey as an MVP canidate because he was considered the best player on the best team(during the regular season). Now that Ben Wallace has left, we haven't heard a peep about him. Chauncey is playing just as well as he was last year, but the team around him isn't as good.
> 
> Take a look at Steve Nash. Dude was never mentioned as an MVP canidate in Dallas, and then he magically elevates his play to an MVP level in one year; nevermind the fact that he is in the perfect system(don't waste energy on defense), with the perfect teammates(2 Allstars and a 6th man canidate) for him to rack up assists.
> 
> I really would like to know the chances of Nash or Dirk winning an MVP with a team consisting of underachievers and D-League level talent. They could play their hearts out, break NBA records, and still wouldn't get considered for the MVP because of their team's record.



Which is why I feel a vote should go to every player and every coach in the league. Beefs or not, the majority would be honest about it.


----------



## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



23isback said:


> Quite the tangent you've gone on but this is just bull****. Amare is the best finisher in the post in the entire nba. Not only does he dominate the paint, he also has a 15-17 foot jump shot. When he gets to the line he shoots nearly 80%.


Posts tonight have been overflowing the thread with sarcasm. I don't blame you for getting confused. Amare is one of my favorite players. I was belittling Nash, FYI, so defend away.


----------



## el_Diablo (May 15, 2003)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



TakUrBalzBakFrmUrWife said:


> and how often does that happen???
> 
> rarely if at all....people who average 30 plus points a game are NOT inconsistant....If they were inconsistant, they'd be averaging 20.....


ok, I did some numbers crunching, just for fun. only outside players are included.


```
#	NAME		GP	PPG	STDEV*
1.	Bryant		64	30,8	11,585
2.	Anthony		50	29,7	6,0980
3.	Arenas		66	28,9	10,738
4.	Wade		46	28,9	7,6888
5.	Iverson 	50	27,9	8,0331

14.	McGrady 	60	24,2	8,8631

18.	Lewis		45	21,9	7,3996

22.	K.Martin	68	20,8	8,0010

24.	Hamilton	65	20,4	7,3960

26.	B.Davis		50	20,3	7,4363
```
.. don't ask me what this means, but purely statistically speaking, kobe seems to be the most inconsistent of the bunch. and the guys who score about 20 ppg do not seem to be more inconsistent than the guys scoring 30 ppg.

*STDEV = Standard deviation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

and obviously his "inconsistency" is due to the fact that he can just catch fire and score insane numbers, which the others can't.


----------



## Theonee (Dec 5, 2006)

*Re: Merged: Kobe is not human...*

Kobe has now scored atleast 25 points for 16th straight time tonight.
ESPN.com - NBA - Kobe Bryant - Los Angeles Lakers - Player Card
It looks consistant to me.


----------



## TakUrBalzBakFrmUrWife (Nov 9, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



el_Diablo said:


> ok, I did some numbers crunching, just for fun. only outside players are included.
> 
> 
> ```
> ...


all I needed to know....


----------



## Phenom Z28 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



PauloCatarino said:


> In the last 4 games (all Laker wins), Kobe averaged:
> 
> - 56.25ppg;
> - 54.29FG%;
> ...


Yo, those numbers don't even seem real. Those are Wilt-esque, except the FT%. We're witnesses...this will never happen again...unless it's by Kobe.


----------



## Yao Mania (Aug 4, 2003)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Kobe is the ****. Respect.


----------



## RSP83 (Nov 24, 2002)

*Re: Merged: Kobe is not human...*

Damn Kobe! The guy is a one-man circus. "Showboat"

The 50 points wasn't necessary. But he's like... "pfftt... what the ****... I'm having fun."

The best basketball player in the world. period.


----------



## Colby Briant (Jan 29, 2003)

*Re: Kobe goes for 50 AGAIN!! (4th time)*



unluckyseventeen said:


> Dude is possessed. He netted another 50 again tonight vs the Hornets.
> 
> What has gotten into this guy?


he got suspended twice and now he's taking it out on the league. thank you stu!


----------



## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

*Will Kobe go for 50 or more Next Game?*

The next team the Lakers face is the Warriors. A team Kobe usually has great success against. Now with the Warriors run, and gun full fledge offense. I wouldn't be suprised to see Kobe have 5 straight 50 point games in a row.

Your thoughts ?


----------



## JoeOtter15 (Apr 22, 2005)

*Re: Will Kobe go for 50 or more Next Game?*

he definitely has a shot but im not sure if it can happen again...is it even legal to score 50+ in 5 straight games???


----------



## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

*Re: Will Kobe go for 50 or more Next Game?*

He's definitely got some less than stellar competition coming up. Memphis (again) and Golden State.


----------



## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

*Re: Will Kobe go for 50 or more Next Game?*

Probably not. This is about the time that teams start sending 2-3 guys at him right away. Hope Kobe's comrads are ready for some wide open shots.


----------



## HB (May 1, 2004)

*Re: Will Kobe go for 50 or more Next Game?*

Going to be really difficult the way defenses will start playing him.


----------



## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

*Re: Will Kobe go for 50 or more Next Game?*

The Hornets took 3 quarters to figure out that they needed to double Kobe... Once they did Kobe had a relatively crappy fourth in comparison to the other quarters, and they cut the lead from 18 to 6...


----------



## jordan0386 (Jul 4, 2006)

*Re: Will Kobe go for 50 or more Next Game?*

Well, if you look closely, I believe he got his last 50 on less than 25 offical FGA...so, if the pace keeps up, he can get to the line 20 times...he _should_ get it

Warriors just gave up, what, 125, to the Wizards in regulation

I wouldnt rule out 75..._if_, he got 35 FGA made 15-20 FTM

Only a few hours left...:biggrin:


----------



## Phenom Z28 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: Will Kobe go for 50 or more Next Game?*

Who knows...I'll definitely be watching though.


----------



## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

*Re: Will Kobe go for 50 or more Next Game?*

you know it will be in the back of his mind, and its not as if its a bad thing.
the Lakers are winning while hes been on this spree, so i would assume the coach and kobe would both love for him to get that 50 again


----------



## Theonee (Dec 5, 2006)

*Re: Will Kobe go for 50 or more Next Game?*

I want to see the Lakers win first, if the Lakers can win, Kobe can do whatever he wants.


----------



## hroz (Mar 4, 2006)

*Re: Will Kobe go for 50 or more Next Game?*

I m going to say NO.
5 in a row is something only Wilt could ever do, and will ever do.


----------



## SickGame (Jan 23, 2006)

*Re: Will Kobe go for 50 or more Next Game?*

The question is more like: Does Kobe want to get 50 points this game?

It's become obvious that when the will is there, he's a lock for a monstrous game if his game is anything but stone cold.


----------



## a.y.h. (Apr 22, 2006)

*Re: Will Kobe go for 50 or more Next Game?*

i think Kobe can do it


----------



## compsciguy78 (Dec 16, 2002)

*Re: Will Kobe go for 50 or more Next Game?*

Kobe can definitely do it!

If he does hes the best player in LA...hahahaha

what happened to EB this year?


----------



## Pinball (Aug 3, 2002)

*Re: Will Kobe go for 50 or more Next Game?*



compsciguy78 said:


> Kobe can definitely do it!
> 
> If he does hes the best player in LA...hahahaha
> 
> what happened to EB this year?


He's the best player in LA whether he does it or not. It's been that way since Shaq left, probably even before that (02-03).


----------



## compsciguy78 (Dec 16, 2002)

*Re: Will Kobe go for 50 or more Next Game?*



Pinball said:


> He's the best player in LA whether he does it or not. It's been that way since Shaq left, probably even before that (02-03).


Ya I know. What happened to EB? Nobody talks about him this year.

Last year EB was dropping 25 and 10+ now he is back to his old self.


----------



## magohaydz (Dec 21, 2005)

*Re: Will Kobe go for 50 or more Next Game?*

I HOPE Kobe goes for 50+. In fact, I personally think he will. However, depending on the Warriors D, if he goes for under 30, he'll have 10+ assists because of the wide open passes to team mates.


----------



## Gilgamesh (Dec 23, 2005)

*Re: Will Kobe go for 50 or more Next Game?*

Kobe is in an incredible zone right now. If he wants to hit 50 he could probably do it but I would hate to see him go out of his way to try to do it. In his last four games he got his points out of team necessity rather than just jacking up shots to run up his point total.


----------



## JasonKidd5 (Mar 6, 2007)

*Re: Will Kobe go for 50 or more Next Game?*

Wouldn't be surprised if he did score 50+.


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Will Kobe go for 50 or more Next Game?*

Well you know Nellie has some crazy *** defensive plan for him, so I doubt it.


----------



## afobisme (Apr 29, 2006)

*Re: Will Kobe go for 50 or more Next Game?*

i think it ends tonight, unless kobe really wants 50. cuz he can get it if he wants, he'll have to force him.


----------



## mippo (Apr 27, 2005)

*Re: Will Kobe go for 50 or more Next Game?*

Out of team "necessity"? If it's necessary for Kobe to take 39 shots a game, which he has done twice in the last 4 games, the Lakers are in a lot of trouble. 

So Kobe increases his shot attempts and subsequently jacks up his point total by playing selfish ball and this is an accomplishment? I guess nobody has noticed that while Kobe is playing "out of his mind" everyone else on the Lakers team is shooting and scoring below their averages. 

He's not even shooting it that well during this whole thing either. He's averaging about 50% shooting over a 4 game clip which is pretty common for star guards to do. Dwyane has already averaged the same shooting percentage for entire playoff series while Kobe did it against lottery teams. 

It's not rocket science, if you take twice as many shots at the same shooting %, you're going to score twice as many points. But, apparently, it is


----------



## Phenom Z28 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: Kobe goes for 50 AGAIN!! (4th time)*

9 points in the first 2 minutes.... He could have 50 in the first half :eek8:


----------



## conkeso (Sep 7, 2003)

*Re: Will Kobe go for 50 or more Next Game?*

He starts "about right", 9 points on 2'20"...


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic (Jul 19, 2005)

*Re: Merged: Kobe is not human...*

Good lord! The man is unreal!


----------



## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

*Re: Merged: Kobe is not human...*

And he's 4-4 ... sheesh. 

What an incredible run. It will be interesting to see how his team can fare in the playoffs I can't see it really being good for the team and his teammates with him going for 50 every night. He won't be scoring 50 a game in the playoffs ... at least I assume he won't. Hopefully his teammates will have a little confidence in themselves come playoff time.


----------



## compsciguy78 (Dec 16, 2002)

*Re: Merged: Kobe is not human...*

Kobe is my main man!!! I used to vomit at the sound of his name but he brings excitement to the game!!!

Kobe could drop 50 on anyone even Jordan.


----------



## Kidd's Nets (Jun 10, 2006)

*Re: Will Kobe go for 50 or more Next Game?*

which tvu channel is this game on?


----------



## magohaydz (Dec 21, 2005)

*Re: Will Kobe go for 50 or more Next Game?*

At the current rate of 3 points per MINUTE, Kobe should go for 140+.


----------



## compsciguy78 (Dec 16, 2002)

*Re: Merged: Kobe is not human...*



RSP83 said:


> Damn Kobe! The guy is a one-man circus. "Showboat"
> 
> The 50 points wasn't necessary. But he's like... "pfftt... what the ****... I'm having fun."
> 
> The best basketball player in the world. period.



For real! 

Thats what it comes down to. How many guys in the league can say "You know what if I took 30+ shots tonight I'm going to drop 50 points". 

Only Kobe is good enough to do that.


----------



## Theonee (Dec 5, 2006)

*Re: Will Kobe go for 50 or more Next Game?*



magohaydz said:


> At the current rate of 3 points per MINUTE, Kobe should go for 140+.


:worthy: :worthy: :worthy:


----------



## Samael (Sep 1, 2005)

*Re: Will Kobe go for 50 or more Next Game?*

Judging by his body language it seems like he's at it again but I don't think he'll get a high FG% on this one.


----------



## Lynx (Mar 6, 2004)

*Re: Will Kobe go for 50 or more Next Game?*

Mamba is unleashed. There is no stopping, B!


----------



## Kidd's Nets (Jun 10, 2006)

*Re: Will Kobe go for 50 or more Next Game?*

sheesh. 13 points with 4:11 to go.


----------



## sonicFLAME6 (Dec 19, 2006)

*Re: Will Kobe go for 50 or more Next Game?*

17 with 3min left in the 1st


----------



## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

*Re: Merged: Kobe is not human...*

haha, he's already got 17 pts with 4 mins to go in the 1st qtr ... ridiculous.


----------



## Kidd's Nets (Jun 10, 2006)

*Re: Will Kobe go for 50 or more Next Game?*

[JINX]50 by the half? new career-high? [/JINX]


----------



## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

*Re: Merged: Kobe is not human...*

NBA is stupid ... they should have that damned game on national TV.


----------



## Drewbs (Feb 16, 2004)

*Re: Will Kobe go for 50 or more Next Game?*



mippo said:


> Out of team "necessity"? If it's necessary for Kobe to take 39 shots a game, which he has done twice in the last 4 games, the Lakers are in a lot of trouble.
> 
> So Kobe increases his shot attempts and subsequently jacks up his point total by playing selfish ball and this is an accomplishment? I guess nobody has noticed that while Kobe is playing "out of his mind" everyone else on the Lakers team is shooting and scoring below their averages.
> 
> ...


Hes averaging about 50%? Hes averaging OVER 50% from THREE, hes averaging over 54% from the field altogether and over 93% from the line. When someone else on the team can match those sorts of numbers, then you can say Kobe needs to stop shooting.


----------



## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

*Re: Will Kobe go for 50 or more Next Game?*

This is unreal... But perhaps old Nelly will be a little bit smart and double him early... I mean that's what they're paid to figure out isn't it? As of right now I've seen 3 plays where they doubled another player and left Kobe wide open... Smart... Real smart...


----------



## sonicFLAME6 (Dec 19, 2006)

*Re: Will Kobe go for 50 or more Next Game?*

7-11fg 1-3 3pt 2-2ft 17p


----------



## Tragedy (Dec 9, 2002)

*Re: Merged: Kobe is not human...*



JNice said:


> NBA is stupid ... they should have that damned game on national TV.


forreal. like they can't bump the nuggets/cavs game?


----------



## Lynx (Mar 6, 2004)

*Re: Will Kobe go for 50 or more Next Game?*

I'm loving the way Luke is setting up Mamba!


----------



## Drewbs (Feb 16, 2004)

*Re: Merged: Kobe is not human...*

I really wonder what is on Kobe's mind right now. Its like hes playing against a rec league.


----------



## Phenom Z28 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: Merged: Kobe is not human...*

This is amazing, I don't wunna wake up.


----------



## Theonee (Dec 5, 2006)

*Re: Merged: Kobe is not human...*

He is out socring the whole GS team.


----------



## Imdaman (Nov 29, 2006)

*Re: Will Kobe go for 50 or more Next Game?*

has anyone found this game using sopcast?


----------



## Drewbs (Feb 16, 2004)

*Re: Will Kobe go for 50 or more Next Game?*

looks more like hes going to go for 50 in the half.


----------



## compsciguy78 (Dec 16, 2002)

*Re: Merged: Kobe is not human...*

How good is he?

Can someone answer this?


----------



## MarionBarberThe4th (Jul 7, 2005)

*Re: Merged: Kobe is not human...*

Anyone else rooting hard for him to do this kind of **** for like 2 weeks?

I always thought he got a bad rap


----------



## Theonee (Dec 5, 2006)

*Re: Will Kobe go for 50 or more Next Game?*



Drewbs said:


> Hes averaging about 50%? Hes averaging OVER 50% from THREE, hes averaging over 54% from the field altogether and over 93% from the line. When someone else on the team can match those sorts of numbers, then you can say Kobe needs to stop shooting.


You don't have to dignify some posts with a response.


----------



## Theonee (Dec 5, 2006)

*Re: Will Kobe go for 50 or more Next Game?*

If possible,Can one of the moderators, please merge this with the big Kobe thread. Thanks


----------



## Kidd's Nets (Jun 10, 2006)

*Re: Will Kobe go for 50 or more Next Game?*



Imdaman said:


> has anyone found this game using sopcast?


is sopcast free?

no talking about streams please


----------



## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

*Re: Merged: Kobe is not human...*



MarionBarberThe4th said:


> Anyone else rooting hard for him to do this kind of **** for like 2 weeks?
> 
> I always thought he got a bad rap



I love a good story. I'd like to see him finish out the year with nothing but 50+ point games. 

One day I can tell my kids I was following it when it happened.


----------



## Imdaman (Nov 29, 2006)

*Re: Merged: Kobe is not human...*

sorry to be off topic a little but has anyone found this game using sopcast?


----------



## Theonee (Dec 5, 2006)

*Re: Merged: Kobe is not human...*



Imdaman said:


> sorry to be off topic a little but has anyone found this game using sopcast?


How come this **** doesn't work.
no links to streaming networks please


----------



## Imdaman (Nov 29, 2006)

*Re: Merged: Kobe is not human...*



Theonee said:


> How come this **** doesn't work.


I know. how come they dont have this game?


----------



## Kidd's Nets (Jun 10, 2006)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

no talking about streams please


----------



## CaliCool (Nov 5, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Kobe Watch 1st Q: 17 points...

Oh my.. those tough mid range jumpers like lay ups for him but he has been really pushing it this early.. I predict 12 more next quarter.. Plus 34 total in the second half..


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Nice spin move...


----------



## Flash is the Future (May 12, 2006)

*Re: Merged: Kobe is not human...*



JNice said:


> I love a good story. I'd like to see him finish out the year with nothing but 50+ point games.
> 
> One day I can tell my kids I was following it when it happened.


I completely agree with you. We're watching immortal greatness right now. I think if he finished out the season scoring nothing but 50+ games he'd win MVP if the Lakers won almost all of of those games.


----------



## Yao Mania (Aug 4, 2003)

*Re: Merged: Kobe is not human...*

wow, the Warriors better start scoring if we still wanna see 50 from Kobe. This is turning into a blowout.


----------



## Theonee (Dec 5, 2006)

*Re: Merged: Kobe is not human...*



Flash is the Future said:


> I completely agree with you. We're watching immortal greatness right now. I think if he finished out the season scoring nothing but 50+ games he'd win MVP if the Lakers won almost all of of those games.


That will equal exactly 50 wins, but I like the chance of getting struck by a lightening than that happening.


----------



## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*

Why do people complain about Kobe shooting a lot when he's shooting a great percentage, and more importantly, his team is _winning_? Shooting high percentage, team is winning. His teammates have mostly been shooting terribly, too. If anything, that might mean he's shooting too little. Like in tonight's game so far, he's taken 15 shots with 9 mins left in the 2nd, but he's shooting over 50% and his team is up by 15. Should those shots be going to his teammates?


----------



## Husstla (Nov 5, 2006)

Anyone know any website I can watch thsi game on


----------



## Theonee (Dec 5, 2006)

WTF, the espn box score shows that the Lakers won the game, 35-25.


----------



## Phenom Z28 (Nov 22, 2004)

Theonee said:


> WTF, the espn box score shows that the Lakers won the game, 35-25.


 Yea ESPN scoreboard always messes up.

"Mamba Unleashed" wtf mate? I don't remember a thread with that title.


----------



## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

Phenom Z28 said:


> Yea ESPN scoreboard always messes up.
> 
> "Mamba Unleashed" wtf mate? I don't remember a thread with that title.


That notorious Kobe homer Minstrel changed it.


----------



## Theonee (Dec 5, 2006)

Spriggan said:


> That notorious Kobe homer Minstrel changed it.


:biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :cheers:


----------



## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

Spriggan said:


> That notorious Kobe homer Minstrel changed it.


Unleashed upon his teammates, whom he implicitly attacks by not passing them the ball or giving them opportunities.

I assumed everyone knew that's what it meant.


----------



## Lynx (Mar 6, 2004)

<<<< ----- Unleashed :bsmile:


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

Lynx said:


> <<<< ----- Unleashed :bsmile:


Haha I was wondering about that


----------



## compsciguy78 (Dec 16, 2002)

Minstrel said:


> Unleashed upon his teammates, whom he implicitly attacks by not passing them the ball or giving them opportunities.
> 
> I assumed everyone knew that's what it meant.


:rofl:

So true!

One side of the coin you have the unstoppable monster of 50+ for 4 games

On the other side you have the black hole who gobbles any form of light which is known in the general universe...


----------



## socco (Jul 14, 2002)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Spriggan said:


> Why do people complain about Kobe shooting a lot when he's shooting a great percentage, and more importantly, his team is _winning_? Shooting high percentage, team is winning. His teammates have mostly been shooting terribly, too. If anything, that might mean he's shooting too little. Like in tonight's game so far, he's taken 15 shots with 9 mins left in the 2nd, but he's shooting over 50% and his team is up by 15. Should those shots be going to his teammates?


I wouldn't _complain_ about the high shots. But the reason he's able to put up such high scoring numbers is because he takes so many shots. The difference between him and alot of other great players isn't that he's so much better than them, it's that he's willing to shoot so much more. That's something that certainly should be noted, no?


----------



## Phenom Z28 (Nov 22, 2004)

Wow....Lamar just screamed at the ref like a spoiled child screaming at his mom because she didn't buy him a Sony PSP.


----------



## Yao Mania (Aug 4, 2003)

Seems like Kobe's holding back a little now because his shots aren't falling... not a good sign


----------



## Lynx (Mar 6, 2004)

Phenom Z28 said:


> Wow....Lamar just screamed at the ref like a spoiled child screaming at his mom because she didn't buy him a Sony PSP.


:rofl:

He's having an all-round game though: 10 pts, 7 boards and 4 dimes, 3 steals


----------



## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



socco said:


> I wouldn't _complain_ about the high shots. But the reason he's able to put up such high scoring numbers is because he takes so many shots. The difference between him and alot of other great players isn't that he's so much better than them, it's that he's willing to shoot so much more. That's something that certainly should be noted, no?


except he really is a better scorer. his ts% the last 4 games has been great, and the lakers team ts% has been great. the lakers have been a very good offensive team the last 2 years. there's little to suggest the difference is solely on willingness to shoot. few other guys are able to do this for a single game when they're hot. not because they don't want to, but because it's hard. note that he's shooting more - sure - but he's doing so while being efficient. it's good for his team right now. it's historic stuff right now - simply assuming others could be doing the same if they just wanted to seems pretty ridiculous, no?


----------



## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



socco said:


> The difference between him and alot of other great players isn't that he's so much better than them, it's that he's willing to shoot so much more. That's something that certainly should be noted, no?


Well, yes, but you're noting his strength. He takes so many shots because he scores at a higher efficiency than any of his teammates. Shots taken from him and given to his teammates would result in lower efficiency for those shots and therefore fewer points for the team.

Taking a lot of shots is a definite positive when it happens at high efficiency.


----------



## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



kflo said:


> except he really is a better scorer. his ts% the last 4 games has been great, and the lakers team ts% has been great. the lakers have been a very good offensive team the last 2 years. there's little to suggest the difference is solely on willingness to shoot. few other guys are able to do this for a single game when they're hot. not because they don't want to, but because it's hard. note that he's shooting more - sure - but he's doing so while being efficient. it's good for his team right now. it's historic stuff right now - simply assuming others could be doing the same if they just wanted to seems pretty ridiculous, no?


F! All wrong.


----------



## Theonee (Dec 5, 2006)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



socco said:


> I wouldn't _complain_ about the high shots. But the reason he's able to put up such high scoring numbers is because he takes so many shots. The difference between him and alot of other great players isn't that he's so much better than them, it's that he's willing to shoot so much more. That's something that certainly should be noted, no?


This statement is same as, someone saying, everyone could become a millionaire, but they just choose not to.


----------



## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



socco said:


> I wouldn't _complain_ about the high shots. But the reason he's able to put up such high scoring numbers is because he takes so many shots. The difference between him and alot of other great players isn't that he's so much better than them, it's that he's willing to shoot so much more. That's something that certainly should be noted, no?


Yeah, but he's taken a lot of shots at a very good efficiency. Sure, other players could take as many shots at Kobe, but could they all create their own shots anywhere on the floor, practically at will, and remain as efficient? It takes a lot of stamina and you've gotta be able to score in a wide variety of ways. The only other guy that I'd think could put on a scoring streak similar to Kobe's right now is possibly LeBron, if his three is on and he's putting forth the effort. That's it, really. Arenas is similarly explosive but too inconsistent, Wade and Carmelo don't have the range, Dirk isn't quite as versatile or aggressive a scorer, and McGrady plays a more all-around game these days. Few others could get themselves open or create opportunities for themselves to even shoot that many shots, much less sink them at that rate.

In tonight's game, since that last post I made where the Lakers were up 15 with 9 minutes to go in the first half, Kobe has only taken 3 shots. The Warriors have crawled back to within 4 points at the half since then.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic (Jul 19, 2005)

Kobe stops shooting, Warriors erase a 19pt lead.

Coincidence???


----------



## Theonee (Dec 5, 2006)

CubanLaker said:


> Kobe stops shooting, Warriors erase a 19pt lead.
> 
> Coincidence???


At least it is making 5 people on this board happy.


----------



## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

Lamar Odom had a better half than Kobe did. 12 points, 4-5 shooting, 7 boards, 4 assists, 3 steals


----------



## ballocks (May 15, 2003)

watched the first half of this game (gs/lal) but i won't watch anymore. i like kobe, of course, i think he's still probably the most dangerous player in the league, but he was... obviously reading his news clippings before this game. the first quarter was sort of ridiculous, in terms of the amount of time he'd be calling for the ball from teammates who had already brought it to a better position on the floor. then the 'foul' on the shot he missed that led to bynum's putback- if it's really about the team for kobe, why did he keep drilling michael smith after the basket, which then led to a technical? why did he care so much when his team managed to put two points on the board anyway (forgetting for the moment that, imo, i didn't really see any foul at all!)?

i'm sure there are those who can justify his reaction to the non-call by saying he wants to set the tone for the rest of the game, etc., but i don't really buy that. these players are not psychology masters who fiddle with the wires in refs' heads on their spare time. i think kobe... just wanted the basket/points himself.

so it was sort of funny for me. i don't think he played that way in the second q (leading to a weaker pt total), i think he probably woke up to himself, but i think he _did_ enter the game looking for as many points as possible. which isn't always a bad thing... but just contradicts the things that he was saying/would've said before the game. i always find that stuff interesting.

peace


----------



## Yao Mania (Aug 4, 2003)

game's tied.... I think its time to give Kobe the green light


----------



## socco (Jul 14, 2002)

*Re: Kobe is not human...*



Spriggan said:


> Yeah, but he's taken a lot of shots at a very good efficiency. Sure, other players could take as many shots at Kobe, *but could they all create their own shots anywhere on the floor, practically at will, and remain as efficient*? It takes a lot of stamina and you've gotta be able to score in a wide variety of ways. The only other guy that I'd think could put on a scoring streak similar to Kobe's right now is possibly LeBron, if his three is on and he's putting forth the effort. That's it, really. Arenas is similarly explosive but too inconsistant, Wade and Carmelo don't have the range, Dirk isn't quite as versatile or aggressive a scorer, and McGrady plays a more all-around game these days. Few others could get themselves open or create opportunities for themselves to even shoot that many shots, much less sink them at that rate.


Maybe their efficiency would drop slightly, but I honestly don't think it would be that much of a difference. I don't think the reason other guys don't take as many shots when they're having a good night is because of fatigue. I think Kobe, more than anybody else in the league, can get into a very selfish mode where he won't even think about passing. Not that that's a bad thing, but the difference is more about willingness than ability.

I can only find one game where a player had more attempts than Kobe's first three of the streak, that's Zach Randolph's 40 attempts in a double OT game a couple months ago. If you look at most of the other high scoring games this year they're just as efficient as Kobe's if not more, but with less shots.


----------



## Kidd's Nets (Jun 10, 2006)

no 50 tonight.


----------



## Phenom Z28 (Nov 22, 2004)

I don't understand... Why is Kobe not shooting anymore? It's evident the Lakers are going to blow without him scoring.


----------



## Kidd's Nets (Jun 10, 2006)

the other four players should just set one huge screen for kobe every play if they want to get back in this game.


----------



## Kidd's Nets (Jun 10, 2006)

Laker's Turnovers: 17
Warrior's Turnovers: 6


----------



## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

wth ... only 22 pts so far? Kobe sucks. next ...


----------



## Yao Mania (Aug 4, 2003)

Kobe IS human afterall...

...and the moment I began typing this message he gets himself a 4pt play


----------



## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

You'd think with all the athletes on the floor the Warriors would be better at rebounding... But man are they awful...


----------



## Kidd's Nets (Jun 10, 2006)

man, 25. he's gonna have to score 20+ in the 4th quarter plus potential overtimes -though we know that is completely possible.


----------



## Kidd's Nets (Jun 10, 2006)

was that 4 pt play an off-ball foul?


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

jasonskills said:


> was that 4 pt play an off-ball foul?


Is that...pos...sible?


----------



## CaliCool (Nov 5, 2004)

can Kobe do it? can he?


----------



## Yao Mania (Aug 4, 2003)

Kobe at 36 after back to back 3s!! 7mins left, his team's down 3.... there's still a chance...


----------



## compsciguy78 (Dec 16, 2002)

Kobe just wants overtime so he can get the 50!!!

Go Kobe!!!


----------



## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

The Warriors have taken like 6 straight three's...


----------



## sonicFLAME6 (Dec 19, 2006)

39 4:15 left in the game lakers up 108-102


----------



## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

Lakers Rebound - 58
Warriors - *28*

What's the biggest rebounding difference in NBA history?


----------



## Mateo (Sep 23, 2006)

only 39? scrub.


----------



## Yao Mania (Aug 4, 2003)

Lets go Warriors, bring this baby into OT!!


----------



## magohaydz (Dec 21, 2005)

I find it very hard to believe the Lakers are winning based purely on stats. Look at the turnovers. 24-8 in favour of the Warriors. Thats TERRIBLE!

Heres an interesting scenario.....3 seconds left, game tied up, Lakers possession. Kobe on 46 points. Inbounds pass to Kobe, does he make the shot to win the game, finishing with 48/49 points, or does he deliberatley miss, taking the game into OT so he can get his 50?


----------



## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

It used to be that everytime Kobe shot the ball I thought it was going in. Now everytime the Lakers miss I know there's an offensive rebound... And then they can't even get a free-throw miss... Comical


----------



## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

_Only_ 33 shots and a few FTA against another crappy team for Chuckbe. He sure is moving that ball around night. Although I don't know how to explain another 0 assist game. In fact it's unbelievable a guy who dominates the ball unlike anybody in history can't get a single assist. Especially when his teammates have been shooting well for quite a few games now.


----------



## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

:lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## Saint Baller (May 3, 2006)

COME ONE KOBE I WANT 50 FROM YOU

Not likely going to happen though =[


----------



## Yao Mania (Aug 4, 2003)

Odom makes it a 2 posession game, 50 streak is over.

42pts for Kobe, booooo.....


----------



## Phenom Z28 (Nov 22, 2004)

What a game


----------



## Saint Baller (May 3, 2006)

43 Yao Mania.


=[


----------



## ¹²³ (Jan 8, 2003)

Lakers win. A win is a win.


----------



## jordan0386 (Jul 4, 2006)

Thats it!

43, smh


----------



## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

Bounced out in the first... Guaranteed...


----------



## Yao Mania (Aug 4, 2003)

Saint Baller said:


> 43 Yao Mania.
> 
> 
> =[


yah I made my post prior to Kobe getting fouled the last time

This has got to be the most disappointing 40+ pt performance I have ever witnessed. But anyway Lakers win so Kobe haters really shouldn't complaining about him firing away today.


----------



## Theonee (Dec 5, 2006)

I don't care as long as I see a W beside lakers name.


----------



## Seuss (Aug 19, 2005)

Kobe sucks.


Can't even score 50 five straight times.


----------



## Phenom Z28 (Nov 22, 2004)

NNNOOOOOoooooooooo 

I was so hoping the Warriors would get an easy deuce to send it into OT.


----------



## Bartholomew Hunt (Mar 4, 2003)

Five game winning streak since Kobe went on the shooting barage!


----------



## Brandon Real (Mar 14, 2006)

Dr. Seuss said:


> Kobe sucks.
> 
> 
> Can't even score 50 five straight times.


Seriously, what a bum. 44 is childsplay.


----------



## Theonee (Dec 5, 2006)

Phenom Z28 said:


> NNNOOOOOoooooooooo
> 
> I was so hoping the Warriors would get an easy deuce to send it into OT.


No Way, Kobe has logged in almost 45 minutes per game, the last four games.


----------



## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

I wouldn't put it past Kobe to intentionally split from the FT line at the end there so GS get a shot to tie and if they hit the game goes into OT(where he'll be able to keep the streak going).

It's well known he purposefully kept games close in his High School days to pad his numbers/play hero down the stretch.


----------



## Theonee (Dec 5, 2006)

For some people Kobe is damned if he does and damn if he doesn't.


----------



## ¹²³ (Jan 8, 2003)

SPMJ said:


> I wouldn't put it past Kobe to intentionally split from the FT line at the end there so GS get a shot to tie and if they hit the game goes into OT(where he'll be able to keep the streak going).
> 
> It's well known he purposefully kept games close in his High School days to pad his numbers/play hero down the stretch.


NO.


----------



## Theonee (Dec 5, 2006)

¹²³ said:


> NO.


Biggest No I have ever seen.:lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## jordan0386 (Jul 4, 2006)

SPMJ said:


> I wouldn't put it past Kobe to intentionally split from the FT line at the end there so GS get a shot to tie and if they hit the game goes into OT(where he'll be able to keep the streak going).
> 
> It's well known he purposefully kept games close in his High School days to pad his numbers/play hero down the stretch.



His character is so shady, I was thinking the same ****...I would never do that for another player...my boy has left quite the legacy, lmao


----------



## Bartholomew Hunt (Mar 4, 2003)

Kobe has been quick to give credit to Luke and Lamar for giving him open looks, and rightfully so. Odom is playing with a torn labrum and never has really had a chance to get in shape this season. Without Luke and Lamar, the Lakers went on nasty losing streaks. Here are Odom's stats for the past five games, all wins.

18.0 PPG
5.8 APG
13.8 RPG


----------



## Eternal (Sep 7, 2005)

SPMJ said:


> I wouldn't put it past Kobe to intentionally split from the FT line at the end there so GS get a shot to tie and if they hit the game goes into OT(where he'll be able to keep the streak going).
> 
> It's well known he purposefully kept games close in his High School days to pad his numbers/play hero down the stretch.


Just *NO*...


----------



## Theonee (Dec 5, 2006)

"It's kind of exciting, he's on such a roll," Golden State coach Don Nelson before the game. "It's good for basketball, it's good for the league. I'm not sure it's good for the Warriors tonight."
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=270325013


----------



## Sifin (Mar 25, 2007)

SPMJ said:


> It's well known he purposefully kept games close in his High School days to pad his numbers/play hero down the stretch.


Jackson was the source of this comment and has since retracted it, admitting he had heard a rumor about it but didn't know if it were actually true. Surprised people here are this bad at research.


----------



## Sifin (Mar 25, 2007)

SPMJ said:


> _Only_ 33 shots and a few FTA against another crappy team for Chuckbe. He sure is moving that ball around night. Although I don't know how to explain another 0 assist game. In fact it's unbelievable a guy who dominates the ball unlike anybody in history can't get a single assist. Especially when his teammates have been shooting well for quite a few games now.


And people say MJ sympathizers don't obsess about Kobe.


----------



## mippo (Apr 27, 2005)

There is a big difference between Kobe and MJ. 

MJ: 6 time Finals MVP
Kobe: 0 Finals MVP and he'll never get one

It is the only true statistic in determining greatness. It's the only award granted to the best player on the best team in the league.


----------



## Eternal (Sep 7, 2005)

mippo said:


> There is a big difference between Kobe and MJ.
> 
> MJ: 6 time Finals MVP
> Kobe: 0 Finals MVP and he'll never get one
> ...


And how do you know he will never get one? Unless you can tell the future... you can't make statements like that.


----------



## jordan0386 (Jul 4, 2006)

When you already have 3 rings...and you need one more for people to validate your career...I think that means you are pretty damn good

"I hate you as a person, but if you win one ring by yourself, I will give you your props"

LMAO, thats just funny to me...

Oh, he will score 60 on Tmac's head friday night...so we can finally put _that_ debate to bed


----------



## Sifin (Mar 25, 2007)

mippo said:


> There is a big difference between Kobe and MJ.
> 
> MJ: 6 time Finals MVP
> Kobe: 0 Finals MVP and he'll never get one
> ...


That's pretty nonsensical. Otherwise Chauncey Billups would be considered a better player than Bryant. Or Dwyane Wade's Finals MVP would be considered legitimate even though it was awarded by the referees. Statistics balanced with reasonable perspectives are what actually matter.


----------



## mippo (Apr 27, 2005)

The problem is that talent will only take you so far. There are plenty of extremely talented players in the NBA that have been all-stars their entire careers and have never won a championship. Most people look solely at statistics and not at the intangibles of how the person plays the game. 

Someone who plays smart basketball and consistently makes the right decision is much more likely to win a playoff series then a very talented player who makes bad decisions. When you look at championship calibre players, at the end of games in the 4th quarter they are consistently putting themselves and their teams in position to take a high percentage shot every single time down the court. 

The percentages tend to work themselves out so the championship type players who consistently take high percentage shots over a 7 game series tend to win. There are very few players who ever make it to that championship tier which is also why the majority of champions tend to repeat. The league typically never has more then a few true contenders at any point in time and when those players are playing 10+ years they each tend to win a couple of championships before they go. 

Kobe Bryant still has yet to show he can play smart basketball and until he does, he isn't winning a championship, period. He was also never the player on those championship teams playing smart basketball and subsequently he was never the person who won the Finals MVP's, Shaq did. For as much talent as Kobe has, he isn't good enough to overcome consistently poor decision making on his part. Based on his talent he shoots tough shots at a higher percentage then practically any other player in the league but a smarter player beats him by simply taking a higher percentage shot. When every possession matters, the championship calibre players make the right decision every single time down the court which is why it's really hard to beat them if you aren't playing smart basketball. You can count on players like Kobe Bryant and Vince Carter to chuck up a couple of ill-advised shots near the end of games and because they are talented, occasionally they make them and win the game, but more often then not, they miss and end up losing. 

What do I base Kobe not winning a Finals MVP on? Well right now he has yet to show any intelligence on the basketball court to even imply he can play on the same court with the elite players in this league. When Kobe Bryant is calling for the ball from a player with a better on-court position then him that doesn't show me he can win a championship. Even with as great as Kobe is supposedly playing this year, he'll be extremely lucky to make it out of the first round of the play-offs.


----------



## Mateo (Sep 23, 2006)

No, the problem is that basketball is still a team sport. It's such an obvious reality yet people want to deny it for some strange reason.


----------



## Drewbs (Feb 16, 2004)

mippo said:


> The problem is that talent will only take you so far. There are plenty of extremely talented players in the NBA that have been all-stars their entire careers and have never won a championship. Most people look solely at statistics and not at the intangibles of how the person plays the game.
> 
> Someone who plays smart basketball and consistently makes the right decision is much more likely to win a playoff series then a very talented player who makes bad decisions. When you look at championship calibre players, at the end of games in the 4th quarter they are consistently putting themselves and their teams in position to take a high percentage shot every single time down the court.
> 
> ...


Shaq must be the greatest ever to win 3 championships with Kobe holding the team back with his lack of smart play and inability to play with other elite players.


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## Mightytoo (Mar 20, 2007)

Kobe is the best scorer in the league now alright.
But he's hurting his team in the long run with his selfish plays.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

mippo said:


> The problem is that talent will only take you so far. There are plenty of extremely talented players in the NBA that have been all-stars their entire careers and have never won a championship. Most people look solely at statistics and not at the intangibles of how the person plays the game.
> 
> Someone who plays smart basketball and consistently makes the right decision is much more likely to win a playoff series then a very talented player who makes bad decisions. When you look at championship calibre players, at the end of games in the 4th quarter they are consistently putting themselves and their teams in position to take a high percentage shot every single time down the court.
> 
> ...


lol.


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## Theonee (Dec 5, 2006)

I think this thread should be closed, it is the same things repeated again and again.


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## jordan0386 (Jul 4, 2006)

Mightytoo said:


> Kobe is the best scorer in the league now alright.
> But he's hurting his team in the long run with *his selfish plays*.



LMAO, I dont really get this...was he selfish when they were 30-19 before the injuries caught up to them


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

mippo said:


> For as much talent as Kobe has, he isn't good enough to overcome consistently poor decision making on his part. Based on his talent he shoots tough shots at a higher percentage then practically any other player in the league but a smarter player beats him by simply taking a higher percentage shot.


Is that decision making on the defensive end? 

I feel bad because you probably typed up that whole long post about how you can't build an offense around Kobe, not even realizing that the Lakers are averaging 103.14 points per game (5th in the NBA) on 46.5% from the field (7th in the NBA). Defense has been the Lakers problem when they're losing. When they're winning, they're playing spirited team defense on top of their typical elite offense, headlined by Mr. Kobe. This has all been without Odom and Walton for a portion of the season, with Smush Parker as Kobe's best offensive option. The Lakers with Shaquille and Kobe were one of the most unstoppable offensive teams ever, not just because of Shaquille. Kobe is just an offensive juggernaut, and there isn't a player in the league I would rather build my offense around now that Shaquille is past his prime. However, Kobe isn't good enough to single-handedly make a defense elite (which is where Tim Duncan has every superstar in the league beat), but to deny his offensive ability and impact on a team's offense is just uninformed.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

Kobe might be the smartest non-PG in the league. You have to be an intelligent player to put amazing moves together on instinct like he does.


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## mippo (Apr 27, 2005)

Sir Patchwork said:


> Is that decision making on the defensive end?
> 
> I feel bad because you probably typed up that whole long post about how you can't build an offense around Kobe, not even realizing that the Lakers are averaging 103.14 points per game (5th in the NBA) on 46.5% from the field (7th in the NBA). Defense has been the Lakers problem when they're losing. When they're winning, they're playing spirited team defense on top of their typical elite offense, headlined by Mr. Kobe. This has all been without Odom and Walton for a portion of the season, with Smush Parker as Kobe's best offensive option. The Lakers with Shaquille and Kobe were one of the most unstoppable offensive teams ever, not just because of Shaquille. Kobe is just an offensive juggernaut, and there isn't a player in the league I would rather build my offense around now that Shaquille is past his prime. However, Kobe isn't good enough to single-handedly make a defense elite (which is where Tim Duncan has every superstar in the league beat), but to deny his offensive ability and impact on a team's offense is just uninformed.


I never said anything in my post about not being able to build an offense around Kobe Bryant. I'm talking about what championship calibre players do at the end of playoff games when every possession counts. It's completely unrelated to a team's offensive capabilities throughout a season. It depends how you respond in the 2nd half of a game 7 when teams have setup their defense specifically to stopping you. 

Where was Lebron James in the 2nd half of game 7 against Detroit last year?
Where was Kobe Bryant in the 2nd half of game 7 against Phoenix last year? 

When it mattered most, they disappeared and that's what matters. Not their offensive efficiency throughout the season, but their efficiency down the stretch of a game 7. Lebron James is still young and will probably elevate his game to make better decisions down the stretch of the playoffs but Kobe has been in this league a while and doesn't really appear to handle playoff games any differently. If Kobe wants to shoot the ball, Kobe shoots the ball. You can double Kobe down the stretch of a playoff game and force him into a tough shot consistently and that's not going to beat a Tim Duncan who is going to get the ball in the post everytime down the floor on the other end and shoot at a 60% + clip down the stretch of the game.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

mippo said:


> I never said anything in my post about not being able to build an offense around Kobe Bryant. I'm talking about what championship calibre players do at the end of playoff games when every possession counts. It's completely unrelated to a team's offensive capabilities throughout a season. It depends how you respond in the 2nd half of a game 7 when teams have setup their defense specifically to stopping you.


That opens things up for other players. If those other players can't come through for you, you can't seriously call that not responding on Kobe's part. Smush Parker was getting wide open shots, Walton, and so on. Championship caliber teams have players who can make teams pay for doubling on the head honcho. That's the difference. 



mippo said:


> Where was Kobe Bryant in the 2nd half of game 7 against Phoenix last year?


Realizing after his 50 point performance in game 6, having a big 4th quarter and overtime hitting multiple big shots, that if his team isn't playing well as a whole, they have no chance of winning. That held true again in game 7 when he had 20+ points in the first half scoring efficiently and creating open shots for people, but they were still down double digits because his team pulled a disappearing act on him for the whole game. It's not a one man game, and even though some of you want to believe that Kobe and LeBron are one man shows by choice, they're not.

The fact that the 7th seed Lakers had the 2nd seed Suns on the ropes is amazing in itself. Same concept for LeBron. They were a play or two, a ball bounce away from winning the series when most people predicted sweeps or a 5 game series. 




mippo said:


> that's not going to beat a Tim Duncan who is going to get the ball in the post everytime down the floor on the other end and shoot at a 60% + clip down the stretch of the game.


Where was Tim Duncan down the stretch of game 7 against Dallas? Getting blocked by Desagana Diop in overtime? I guess he isn't a championship caliber player either. 

Where was Dirk the whole series against the Heat? I guess he isn't either.


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## Bartholomew Hunt (Mar 4, 2003)

Jeez.


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## Ych (Feb 25, 2006)

mippo said:


> Where was Kobe Bryant in the 2nd half of game 7 against Phoenix last year?


There was nothing that Kobe could do that would please the media in Game 7.
If he went for 50 points and lost, everyone would jump on him calling him selfish.

He decided to play the team role and started passing to his teammates. They ended up losing also.
Everyone said he gave up the team.

Tell me. What is Kobe suppose to do in Game 7?


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## socco (Jul 14, 2002)

Speaking of Kobe, on ESPN.com they have a poll asking "Which player should be the MVP of the NBA?" And somehow Kobe is actually leading. Quite humerous, considering anybody who knows anything about the NBA knows he has absolutely no chance at being the MVP.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

socco said:


> Speaking of Kobe, on ESPN.com they have a poll asking "Which player should be the MVP of the NBA?" And somehow Kobe is actually leading. Quite humerous, considering anybody who knows anything about the NBA knows he has absolutely no chance at being the MVP.


The question is who _should_ be MVP, not who will _will_ be. Based on that phrasing, Kobe is a perfectly good choice.


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## socco (Jul 14, 2002)

Minstrel said:


> The question is who _should_ be MVP, not who will _will_ be. Based on that phrasing, *Kobe is a perfectly good choice*.


I wouldn't say that.

And I'm sure the highly intelligent ESPN.com readers were focusing on the exact phrasing of the question.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

socco said:


> I wouldn't say that.


Your opinion. But that has nothing to do with your implication that anyone who selected Kobe doesn't know much about basketball. Kobe has no chance because of voter peculiarities (generally only consider players from one of the best two teams), not because he isn't a great and valuable player.



> And I'm sure the highly intelligent ESPN.com readers were focusing on the exact phrasing of the question.


"Should" is a pretty clear word, it's not a very subtle distinction. "Who do you think is most deserving," not "do your best to model voter thinking."


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## Theonee (Dec 5, 2006)

I never understood why they give the MVP to players from bad teams in baseball,like the one A-Rod won and one Ryan Howard won last year, even though they didn't make the playoffs, in fact A-Rods team was worst in the league, the year he won MVP.
Now don't give me the baseball is not a team sport crap. Baseball is as much of a team sport than any other sport. 
In order to get RBI, you need base runners.
In order to win you need good pitcher, good fielder, good hitter, good reliever, good closer.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

The reason for that poll is because a) fans are in the moment of Kobe's greatness and b) the majority of fans who vote on those things are casual, impressionable guys who base mostly everything off numbers.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

Theonee said:


> I never understood why they give the MVP to players from bad teams in baseball,like the one A-Rod won and one Ryan Howard won last year, even though they didn't make the playoffs, in fact A-Rods team was worst in the league, the year he won MVP.


Actually, Rodriguez's team wasn't worst in the league. It was last in the AL West, but near .500. There were much worse teams in the AL Central and AL East.

Anyway, players from all teams should be considered for MVP in any team sport. Value to your team doesn't come only for winning teams. A player's value is how many more games the team wins with him than they'd win without him on the team. IMO, a player worth 10 wins in the standings is more valuable than a player worth 4 wins in the standings, even if the second player's team won more. All that tells you is that the second player had a better supporting cast, not that he was more valuable.


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## Theonee (Dec 5, 2006)

Minstrel said:


> Actually, Rodriguez's team wasn't worst in the league. It was last in the AL West, but near .500. There were much worse teams in the AL Central and AL East.
> 
> Anyway, players from all teams should be considered for MVP in any team sport. Value to your team doesn't come only for winning teams. A player's value is how many more games the team wins with him than they'd win without him on the team. IMO, a player worth 10 wins in the standings is more valuable than a player worth 4 wins in the standings, even if the second player's team won more. All that tells you is that the second player had a better supporting cast, not that he was more valuable.


That was what I was getting at. I mean if they can give it in baseball, they can give it in any other sport. After all it says Most Valuable Player, not Most Valuable team.


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## Sifin (Mar 25, 2007)

mippo said:


> The problem is that talent will only take you so far. There are plenty of extremely talented players in the NBA that have been all-stars their entire careers and have never won a championship. Most people look solely at statistics and not at the intangibles of how the person plays the game.
> 
> Someone who plays smart basketball and consistently makes the right decision is much more likely to win a playoff series then a very talented player who makes bad decisions. When you look at championship calibre players, at the end of games in the 4th quarter they are consistently putting themselves and their teams in position to take a high percentage shot every single time down the court.
> 
> ...


None of this really addresses any of the issues mentioned here, and that is having the teammates to be in position to win championships. Otherwise, as I said, Billups would be considered a better player than Bryant based on the 04 Finals or Wade would be considered a better player than Bryant because of a poorly officiated 06 Finals. Without actually addressing the context of situations your analysis is merely generalized falsehoods that can't be proven and certainly haven't born themselves out considering Bryant's contributions to a 3-peat dynasty. Shaq was indeed the Finals MVP all 3 seasons, but often not the Western Conference Finals MVP, where Bryant routinely performed superbly statistically and in the clutch. 

Though, of course, I suppose my belief that the 06 Finals were poorly officiated and unfairly given to the Heat is debatable, but I'm sure most people who watched that series would agree it wasn't won legitimately. 

And asking where was LeBron/Kobe in 2nd half of Game 7's last year also ignores the same, and equally irrelevant, question of where was Dwyane Wade Game 7 2005 Eastern Conference Finals? Shut out the last 15 minutes of Game 7, that's what. What does that prove? Nothing particularly noteworthy.


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## TakUrBalzBakFrmUrWife (Nov 9, 2004)

We learned today that mippo is a first rate hater in every sense of the word...

Seeing as how Kobe played as instructed by Phil during the 3 title runs, how is that NOT smart basketball???


lol Finals MVPs....Lets not forget that most people considered the WCFs the real finals of those years anyways....


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## socco (Jul 14, 2002)

Minstrel said:


> "Should" is a pretty clear word, it's not a very subtle distinction. "Who do you think is most deserving," not "do your best to model voter thinking."


You really think the voting would be drastically different if it asked "Which player will be the MVP of the NBA?" instead of "Which player should be the MVP of the NBA?"


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

socco said:


> You really think the voting would be drastically different if it asked "Which player will be the MVP of the NBA?" instead of "Which player should be the MVP of the NBA?"


Most definitely.


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## socco (Jul 14, 2002)

_Dre_ said:


> Most definitely.


Seriously? Wow.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

socco said:


> You really think the voting would be drastically different if it asked "Which player will be the MVP of the NBA?" instead of "Which player should be the MVP of the NBA?"


Yes.


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## Drewbs (Feb 16, 2004)

TakUrBalzBakFrmUrWife said:


> We learned today that mippo is a first rate hater in every sense of the word...
> 
> Seeing as how Kobe played as instructed by Phil during the 3 title runs, how is that NOT smart basketball???
> 
> ...


lol at the finals being a victory lap.


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## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

Right now the poll results are 37% Kobe, 32% Dirk, 32% Nash. If the question was phrased "Who _will_ win the MVP?", Kobe would not be winning the poll. Since Kobe's been lighting it up in ridiculous fashion lately, his exploits are presently fresh in voters' minds and they're more likely to vote for him in a "Who _should_ be MVP" vote, since that doesn't necessitate taking into account certain things that the real MVP voting does and instead allows you focus on the individual player if you want. If it was "who will win MVP", you have to start bringing in those other required factors like team records and such, and I do think a good chunk of people voting for Kobe right now would do that in that case and vote for Dirk/Nash.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

mippo said:


> I never said anything in my post about not being able to build an offense around Kobe Bryant. I'm talking about what championship calibre players do at the end of playoff games when every possession counts. It's completely unrelated to a team's offensive capabilities throughout a season. It depends how you respond in the 2nd half of a game 7 when teams have setup their defense specifically to stopping you.
> 
> Where was Lebron James in the 2nd half of game 7 against Detroit last year?
> Where was Kobe Bryant in the 2nd half of game 7 against Phoenix last year?
> ...


you do realize kobe was the lakers go-to guy in the 4th quarter of championship teams, teams that beat tim duncan's teams? and funny how now kobe shoots the ball and pulls down his team's efficiency, when he barely shot the ball in the 2nd half against phx. a game they were down 15 with kobe carrying the lakers in the 1st half. yours is just selective memory. lebron's late and close eFG% the last couple of years has been on par with anyone in the league. and he also managed to carry his team down the stretch in the 1st round. kobe's been a more efficient scorer than duncan for years. 

please tell who the elite players are in the league that kobe can't play on the same court with? which player can't we point to a series they didn't come through in? nash? wade? duncan? dirk? who?


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

socco said:


> You really think the voting would be drastically different if it asked "Which player will be the MVP of the NBA?" instead of "Which player should be the MVP of the NBA?"


do you think there's any difference in the question? you personally? or is the mvp to you still some academic exercise to predict who the real voters will vote for?


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

why do we continue to indulge the nash for mvp talk by including him with dirk when clearly dirk should win the award running away this year?


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## socco (Jul 14, 2002)

kflo said:


> do you think there's any difference in the question? you personally? or is the mvp to you still some academic exercise to predict who the real voters will vote for?


Of course there is. Do I think the people logging on to espn.com are breaking down the question and seriously analyzing it, or just see the words "Who", "NBA", and "MVP" and vote based on that? I can't believe that some people actually think the results would be any different. I've never said the MVP is "some academic exercise to predict who the real voters will vote for".


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

socco said:


> Of course there is. Do I think the people logging on to espn.com are breaking down the question and seriously analyzing it, or just see the words "Who", "NBA", and "MVP" and vote based on that? I can't believe that some people actually think the results would be any different. I've never said the MVP is "some academic exercise to predict who the real voters will vote for".


I didn't necessarily know you were talking about MVP, I thought you were talking about in general, like on here. If you say who _will_ win, the answer should be Dirk, but might be Nash. 

But if you say _should_, you're inviting all types of criteria in, and I would never assume it would be the same answer with the wannabe columnists and analysts on here.


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## socco (Jul 14, 2002)

_Dre_ said:


> I didn't necessarily know you were talking about MVP, I thought you were talking about in general, like on here. If you say who _will_ win, the answer should be Dirk, but might be Nash.
> 
> But if you say _should_, you're inviting all types of criteria in, and I would never assume it would be the same answer with the wannabe columnists and analysts on here.


If the question were asked on this board, I would expect a big difference. On an espn.com poll, not so much.


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## jordan0386 (Jul 4, 2006)

Wow, they not calling **** tonight...4 for 100...damn kobe


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

socco said:


> Of course there is. Do I think the people logging on to espn.com are breaking down the question and seriously analyzing it, or just see the words "Who", "NBA", and "MVP" and vote based on that? I can't believe that some people actually think the results would be any different. I've never said the MVP is "some academic exercise to predict who the real voters will vote for".


It's not the over-analysis you're trying to make it out as. It's really a simple question. Who, in your opinion, is the MVP? It's not real complicated.


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## jordan0386 (Jul 4, 2006)

good look...miss...better block


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## cadarn (Feb 1, 2006)

looked pretty human tonight


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## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

Damn... Who turned on the sprinklers...


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## mippo (Apr 27, 2005)

Sifin said:


> None of this really addresses any of the issues mentioned here, and that is having the teammates to be in position to win championships. Otherwise, as I said, Billups would be considered a better player than Bryant based on the 04 Finals or Wade would be considered a better player than Bryant because of a poorly officiated 06 Finals. Without actually addressing the context of situations your analysis is merely generalized falsehoods that can't be proven and certainly haven't born themselves out considering Bryant's contributions to a 3-peat dynasty. Shaq was indeed the Finals MVP all 3 seasons, but often not the Western Conference Finals MVP, where Bryant routinely performed superbly statistically and in the clutch.
> 
> Though, of course, I suppose my belief that the 06 Finals were poorly officiated and unfairly given to the Heat is debatable, but I'm sure most people who watched that series would agree it wasn't won legitimately.
> 
> And asking where was LeBron/Kobe in 2nd half of Game 7's last year also ignores the same, and equally irrelevant, question of where was Dwyane Wade Game 7 2005 Eastern Conference Finals? Shut out the last 15 minutes of Game 7, that's what. What does that prove? Nothing particularly noteworthy.


You're right about Dwyane Wade disappearing down the stretch of game 7 in 2005. He played stupid basketball and there is nothing else to say about it. There were major differences between how he played in 05 and how he played down the stretch in 06 which shows that Dwyane was able to realize his mistakes and elevate his game to the next level. For multiple possessions at the end of game 7 with Detroit, he walked the ball up the court and ran isolations at the top of the key. He was likely planning on making a quick move and getting an open 18 footer but as the shot clock ran down, Detroit came in with the double team and Wade was forced into bad shots (bad decisions) or passing it off to teammates late in the shot clock which led to more bad shots or turnovers. 

In 06 he very rarely ran the isolation at the top of the key play. Many times in late game situations he would penetrate and get to the basket for a much higher percentage shot, draw the foul and shoot free throws or kick it out to a wide open teammate. Basically in 05 he settled for contested jump shots and in 06 he focused on penetration and getting high percentage shots. 

It's the same thing with Dirk. In the past Dirk would settle for late game contested jump shots but now Dirk will take the ball in the low post and drive to the basket with it late in games which he never used to do and subsequently Dallas was never really a contender until Dirk changed his game and started playing smart basketball. 

As far as your comment about Kobe routinely outperforming Shaq in the Western Conference Finals I'm curious what data you are basing that on? I'm guessing it's based on your memory of the events with a Kobe bias because even in the Western Conference Finals Shaq's statistics destroyed Kobe's.


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## jordan0386 (Jul 4, 2006)

They were on the same team, lol

"push"


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## Jordan23Forever (May 14, 2005)

> Kobe is a better FT shooter


Kobe's career FT% - 83.4%

Jordan's career FT% - 83.5%


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

Jordan23Forever said:


> Kobe's career FT% - 83.4%
> 
> Jordan's career FT% - 83.5%


ft shooting is pretty much a push. kobe's currently at 83.8% for his career.


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## ElMarroAfamado (Nov 1, 2005)

kflo said:


> ft shooting is pretty much a push. kobe's currently at 83.8% for his career.


it is really pointless arguing with someone when their nicks are 
"Jordan23Forever"
"jordan0386"
i wouldnt be surprised if someone on here is registered with 
"ILoveMichaelJordan" 

:lol:


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## jordan0386 (Jul 4, 2006)

LMAO...no no no

My name is actually Jordan...Im a Kobe homer...I just dont see the need to be delusional

Im cool beans:biggrin: :biggrin:


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## Jordan23Forever (May 14, 2005)

kflo said:


> ft shooting is pretty much a push. kobe's currently at 83.8% for his career.


He went up .4% just this season, and we're not even done? I had no idea. Must be the combination of his career best FT% season with a high # of attempts that edged him up that much in just 70 games.


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