# Game Thread: 12.10.04 Wizards vs. Knicks



## MJG (Jun 29, 2003)

<center><table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0><tr><td>







</td><td width=20><center>vs</center></td><td>







</td></tr><tr><td colspan=3></td></tr><tr><td colspan=3></td></tr><tr><td><center>10 - 6</center></td><td width=20></td><td><center>9 - 9</center></td></tr></table>

7:00 PM on CSN

Season series tied 0 - 0


<table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0><tr><td>







</td><td><center>- Key Match: PG -<br><font color=#DFDFDF>|</font><br><font color=#DFDFDF>|</font></center><table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0><tr><td width=34><p align="right">22.2</p></td><td width=50><center>*PPG*</center></td><td width=34>20.2</td></tr><tr><td colspan=3><font color=#DFDFDF>|</font></td></tr><tr><td width=34><p align="right">3.3</p></td><td width=50><center>*RPG*</center></td><td width=34>2.9</td></tr><tr><td colspan=3><font color=#DFDFDF>|</font></td></tr><tr><td width=34><p align="right">5.3</p></td><td width=50><center>*APG*</center></td><td width=34>8.9</td></tr><tr><td colspan=3><font color=#DFDFDF>|</font></td></tr><tr><td width=34><p align="right">1.5</p></td><td width=50><center>*SPG*</center></td><td width=34>1.6</td></tr><tr><td colspan=3><font color=#DFDFDF>|</font></td></tr><tr><td width=34><p align="right">0.1</p></td><td width=50><center>*BPG*</center></td><td width=34>0.1</td></tr><tr><td colspan=3><font color=#DFDFDF>|</font></td></tr><tr><td width=34><p align="right">38.5</p></td><td width=50><center>*MPG*</center></td><td width=34>38.6</td></tr><tr><td colspan=3><font color=#DFDFDF>|</font></td></tr></table></td><td>







</td></tr></table></center>


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## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

If Marbury is actively looking to score early in this game we could lose another wild shoot-out. He and Crawford could do what the Nuggets did to us. 

And without Kwame in the post we could get the same results because Mohammed has been scoring this season. Haywood has to give us double figures to get this win. 

I think we win another close game. 5 or less points.

I don't think we play well but still win. Played poorly against the Bulls and won and its catching up to us. Nothing wrong with winning games while playing poorly.


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## MJG (Jun 29, 2003)

That's close to what I'm thinking. Sloppy game that we pull out in the end. I swear though, short of some news coming out that he is still hurt, Kwame sure as heck better get some burn in this one. I'm not asking for 40 minutes, I'm asking for 20. Give it to him EJ.


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## Shanghai Kid (Mar 7, 2003)

As long as Jamal Crawford isn't on fire we'll win. It'd be nice know if Larry Hughes is going to show up offensively though.


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## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Shanghai Kid</b>!
> As long as Jamal Crawford isn't on fire we'll win. It'd be nice know if Larry Hughes is going to show up offensively though.


Hughes had an odd game. He started off taking really bad shots and of course he was missing. Then he got in a groove hitting shots in his sweet spot then suddenly he starts faking the jumper and making idiotic drives. Then the dreaded 3pt pull up jumper. 

We have to get Kwame our post option going to stay away from some of those shots. 

I really thought Buckner and Miller did a good job defensively of getting physical with our perimeter shooters. 

I wish JJ had gotten more physical with Melo he was playing him like they were pals from the rec center. No physical contact at all.


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## f22egl (Jun 3, 2004)

I hope the Wizards win and blow them out convincingly. My roommate is a knicks' fan and he said going into the season that he would take jamal crawford any day of the week over Gilbert Arenas. :no: 

Realistically, this game should be close, but the Wizards should win. Tim Thomas doesn't give the knicks anything really and Kurt Thomas and Mohammed are role players. This of course may not be the case if the WIzards play bad defense and if one of the big three has an off game.


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## MJG (Jun 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>f22egl</b>!
> I hope the Wizards win and blow them out convincingly. My roommate is a knicks' fan and he said going into the season that he would take jamal crawford any day of the week over Gilbert Arenas. :no:


I'll be pulling all the harder for blowout based on just this


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## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

The thing is I just can't understand is why Gilbert doesn't get as much national respect when it comes to pg's. He's quite frankly a better player than Chauncy Billups. His stats across the board are better and he gets none of that hype. 

Gilbert is never menitoned as an elite pg in the conversation. 

Gilbert's defense is terrible. but some of the guys in the upper echelon's defense is just as bad. Bibby, Steve Francis, Baron Davis are equally bad defensively. 

Gilbert could end up running on that Rod Strickland, Sam Cassell track where he's respected by his peers but ignored by the media.

Player of the week was nice but the national conversation never includes Gilberts name which is wrong. 

Crawford give me a break. Gilbert is far better than he is. All he does is gun from outside. Thats it.


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## NorthEast Wiz (Jul 16, 2002)

I predicted a loss in another thread but I think we bounce back and win this one. Hughes plays a solid game and Kwame gets the most minutes he has gotten all season.

Wiz 102 
Knicks 91

If Jazzy's information is correct about Kwame being suspended we still win:

Wiz 102
Knicks 95


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## Shanghai Kid (Mar 7, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jazzy1</b>!
> The thing is I just can't understand is why Gilbert doesn't get as much national respect when it comes to pg's. He's quite frankly a better player than Chauncy Billups. His stats across the board are better and he gets none of that hype.
> 
> Gilbert is never menitoned as an elite pg in the conversation.
> ...



It's as simple as this, alot of people just haven't seen him play and don't know how good he is already at 22. The Wiz haven't won until now so of course the national media saw no reason to recognize him. Alot of people I have talked too outside of DC just haven't seen Gilbert play more than once or twice. Outside of DC/Golden State, Gilbert Arenas is an enigma to most fans. The Wizards haven't had any national TV games since he's been here. It seems like Arenas isn't treated as the big threat he is either. If I were an opposing coach I would be double teaming Gilbert, alot of games he's the best player on the floor. 

He'll get more and more respect as the year goes and especially when we make the playoffs for the first time in 8 years. He's exactly the kind of player that can blowup in the playoffs and become a superstar. If he keeps playing like he has lately than he has a good shot at the All-Star game and at worst he'll be in the 3-pt shootout. But playoffs is key for Gilbert.

I wouldn't trade Arenas for any other PG outside of Wade. The guy has a reliable winning attitude, and is just alot of fun to watch. He gets better as a point guard every game.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jazzy1</b>!
> The thing is I just can't understand is why Gilbert doesn't get as much national respect when it comes to pg's. He's quite frankly a better player than Chauncy Billups. His stats across the board are better and he gets none of that hype.
> 
> Gilbert is never menitoned as an elite pg in the conversation.
> ...


Arenas hasn't done anything to justify being mentioned in the elite PG conversation. He's in no way, shape or form a better player than Chauncey Billups. Billups is the kind of player Arenas needs to be to turn his career around and be able to be part of a winning team. He needs to realize what team ball is, what defense is, and when it's appropriate to shoot the ball has a point guard. Billups is one of the only score first PG's I can think of that have truly "figured it out" and turned himself into a quality team player.


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## Shanghai Kid (Mar 7, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> 
> 
> Arenas hasn't done anything to justify being mentioned in the elite PG conversation. He's in no way, shape or form a better player than Chauncey Billups. Billups is the kind of player Arenas needs to be to turn his career around and be able to be part of a winning team. He needs to realize what team ball is, what defense is, and when it's appropriate to shoot the ball has a point guard. Billups is one of the only score first PG's I can think of that have truly "figured it out" and turned himself into a quality team player.


So do you think for example Steve Francis needs to play more like Billups in order for the Magic to be a winning team?

Your not a fan of Gilbert Arenas, so I take your opinion of him with a grain of salt. But, usually I respect it as long as it's nearly accurate. In this case, I have to correct you on a few things because your opinion seems to be somewhat outdated.. Gilbert has already turned it around and matured greatly as a PG this year. His shot selection has improved, he reads the defense better, he's matured as a player and he's learned when to get others invovled and when to take over the game. I know you already have a bad impression of Gilbert, but he's become a real leader on the Wiz. Your wrong about Gil just like you were wrong about the Wiz. You didn't even think the Wiz could make the playoffs with Gilbert Arenas at the point, you assumed he was a loser because of one injury plagued season. You ignored that when healthy he was apart of an 18 game turnaround and now healthy again he's apart of another big turnaround. You basically came to a quick conclusion about Arenas, not realizing that he was not only a gym rat, but a winner. You didn't think he would improve as a point guard or as a player, and he has. Let's be honest, you were expecting Gilbert to be some kind of cancer who would drive the Wiz into the ground. You expected him to lead the league in turnovers and shoot a low percentage because that's what you had pegged as his faults that make him a career loser. Instead, he's become a leader who his teammates respect and rely upon and improved in all those categories. Just watch how many games the Wiz win this year with 22 year old Arenas leading them. You and RP went to great lengths to try to prove that Arenas didn't help a team win, and now when you look at 82games.com Gilbert has the 3rd best +- on the team, a better +- than Steve Francis, and he's one of the most efficient shooting PGs in the league. 

You went as far as to say that Gilbert was a player that wouldn't succeed in any situation, saying that he would of been a cancer on the Spurs, as ridiculas as your argument on the subject was, let me end this by saying The Wiz are already a winning team right now and have a better record than the Pistons so that negates your argument right there.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Shanghai Kid</b>!
> 
> 
> So do you think for example Steve Francis needs to play more like Billups in order for the Magic to be a winning team?


Not winning team, championship caliber team. Big difference. The Magic won't win a title or even compete for a title with Francis on the team unless he changes his style of play drastically. 



> Your not a fan of Gilbert Arenas, so I take your opinion of him with a grain of salt. But, usually I respect it as long as it's nearly accurate. In this case, I have to correct you on a few things because your opinion seems to be somewhat outdated.. Gilbert has already turned it around and matured greatly as a PG this year. His shot selection has improved, he reads the defense better, he's matured as a player and he's learned when to get others invovled and when to take over the game. I know you already have a bad impression of Gilbert, but he's become a real leader on the Wiz. Your wrong about Gil just like you were wrong about the Wiz. You didn't even think the Wiz could make the playoffs with Gilbert Arenas at the point, you assumed he was a loser because of one injury plagued season. You ignored that when healthy he was apart of an 18 game turnaround and now healthy again he's apart of another big turnaround. You basically came to a quick conclusion about Arenas, not realizing that he was not only a gym rat, but a winner. You didn't think he would improve as a point guard or as a player, and he has. Let's be honest, you were expecting Gilbert to be some kind of cancer who would drive the Wiz into the ground. You expected him to lead the league in turnovers and shoot a low percentage because that's what you had pegged as his faults that make him a career loser. Instead, he's become a leader who his teammates respect and rely upon and improved in all those categories. Just watch how many games the Wiz win this year with 22 year old Arenas leading them. You and RP went to great lengths to try to prove that Arenas didn't help a team win, and now when you look at 82games.com Gilbert has the 3rd best +- on the team, a better +- than Steve Francis, and he's one of the most efficient shooting PGs in the league.


First off, the +/- stats your using are unweighted, so they really don't carry much weight in terms of actual impact on the court. The biggest problem I have with what you're saying is you're acting like my opinion of Arenas should change because of 16 games to start a season, and 16 games playing the easiest schedule in the league.



> You went as far as to say that Gilbert was a player that wouldn't succeed in any situation, saying that he would of been a cancer on the Spurs, as ridiculas as your argument on the subject was, let me end this by saying The Wiz are already a winning team right now and have a better record than the Pistons so that negates your argument right there.


No, you're completely twisting my words. I said he would've made the Spurs worst, which I think he definitely would've. I doubt he'd get in the game even, because Poppovich wouldn't play him unless he learned how to play defense and how to effectively run an offense as a point guard. The point's invalid, he could never play a significant role on a team like the Spurs. 

Let's see if the Wizards are a winning team at the end of the year, talk to me about their record and the Pistons record when the season's played itself out.


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## Shanghai Kid (Mar 7, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> 
> 
> Not winning team, championship caliber team. Big difference. The Magic won't win a title or even compete for a title with Francis on the team unless he changes his style of play drastically.
> ...


I'm not saying the Wizards will finish with a better record than the Pistons, but at this moment it is what it is. 

And yes, please let the season play out. I don't expect you to change your opinion after 16 games. So far everything I said during the summer about the Wiz and Arenas is pretty much on point and I don't see that changing. But with respect to the season, we can let it play out and let you change or keep your opinion after 82 games and the playoffs.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Shanghai Kid</b>!
> 
> 
> I'm not saying the Wizards will finish with a better record than the Pistons, but at this moment it is what it is.
> ...


You're right, it is what it is, and it is 16 games. Then again, I can't say I blame you for wanting to enjoy this for as long as it lasts.


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## Shanghai Kid (Mar 7, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> 
> 
> You're right, it is what it is, and it is 16 games. Then again, I can't say I blame you for wanting to enjoy this for as long as it lasts.


I'm only enjoying it as much as a fan of a team who went from being the worst in the league to one of the better East teams should. Of course once the Wiz get their starting PF and backup C healthy, the magic will be over and they'll start falling out of the playoff picture.....naw I think I'll be enjoying the whole season.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Shanghai Kid</b>!
> 
> 
> I'm only enjoying it as much as a fan of a team who went from being the worst in the league to one of the better East teams should. Of course once the Wiz get their starting PF and backup C healthy, the magic will be over and they'll start falling out of the playoff picture.....naw I think I'll be enjoying the whole season.


There's no "magic", the Wizards are 10-6 and have beat one team over .500, and one team in the Western Conference (the 8-12 Memphis Grizzlies). Dream on if you think it's going to be getting any better than this. Let's use that 82games.com +/- rating that you think is so accurate in evaluating impact on the court. Etan Thomas, -7.6 last season. Worst on the team of anyone to play significant time.


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## Shanghai Kid (Mar 7, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> 
> 
> There's no "magic", the Wizards are 10-6 and have beat one team over .500, and one team in the Western Conference (the 8-12 Memphis Grizzlies). Dream on if you think it's going to be getting any better than this. Let's use that 82games.com +/- rating that you think is so accurate in evaluating impact on the court. Etan Thomas, -7.6 last season. Worst on the team of anyone to play significant time.


It doesn't have to get better than this. The Wiz haven't made the playoffs in a long time, so just making the playoffs is good enough for most Wizards fans. If you beat the teams you should and get a few wins over the good teams than that's a good start. I'd be perfectly happy if the Wiz can get the 6th seed and play the Atlantic Division winner in the 1rst round.


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## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> 
> 
> Arenas hasn't done anything to justify being mentioned in the elite PG conversation. He's in no way, shape or form a better player than Chauncey Billups. Billups is the kind of player Arenas needs to be to turn his career around and be able to be part of a winning team. He needs to realize what team ball is, what defense is, and when it's appropriate to shoot the ball has a point guard. Billups is one of the only score first PG's I can think of that have truly "figured it out" and turned himself into a quality team player.


Lets look at this. I stand by the notion that Arenas is better than Billups in raw talent and real effectiveness. 

How was Billups thought of when he played on bad teams with bad personnel. 

He was bounced around thats how. Boston was bad he was a no big deal pg, the Rapts were bad he was a no big deal pg, in Denver the same thing. Only did his rep change when he went to the Wolves a winning situation and then the Pistons where he plays in a winning situation. 

Arenas while he has flaws hasn't played in a winning situation until this season. When a player plays on bad teams he is asked to do more which makes the player a more inefficient player. Thats what happened to Arenas. He was forced to play and do more things and he played outside of his comfort zone. 

Even in that scenario he was given a 64 mill contract. 

When Billups was in those situations he was bounced around and not that big a deal as a player. 

So I'd say his rep is elevated because of the quality of players he has around him. Put him on the Bobcats and he'd be very similar to what Arenas was last season. A wreckeless player who commits turnovers often and gets less assists. 

Plus on the Pistons right now he has 2 great shot blockers and a good perimeter defensive minded sf so some of Billups flaws as a player are disguised with the better talent around him. 

In his 1st real winning situation Arenas gets noticed as player of the week. Wonder why that is. Because he's able to play a much more comfortable role with better talent around him. 

And as Kwame gets in the flow Arenas's rep will only improve and he'll eventually get in the conversation. 

How was Bibby thought of in Memphis before the trade not that highly thought of. 

The players you play with have a significant impact on how you're viewed as a pg. 

Hell Derrick Fisher formerly of the lakers got a 38 mill contract based on him looking good playing with Shaq and Kobe. Had he been with the Bulls last season his rep would have never drawn such a contract.


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## f22egl (Jun 3, 2004)

At least the Wizards are winning games they are supposed to win. Frankly, they didn't have many games that they were supposed to win last year. 
For the Wizards, it most likely will get better since this team should make the playoffs. They are not going to make the leap from worst to championship contenders in one year but they can still develop into one.


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## twinz2gether (May 24, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> 
> 
> There's no "magic", the Wizards are 10-6 and have beat one team over .500, and one team in the Western Conference (the 8-12 Memphis Grizzlies). Dream on if you think it's going to be getting any better than this. Let's use that 82games.com +/- rating that you think is so accurate in evaluating impact on the court. Etan Thomas, -7.6 last season. Worst on the team of anyone to play significant time.


Hey, at least we didn't lose to the bobcats .

We beat every team that was below .500 except philly. Lets think, if a team is going to below .500, doesn't that mean they have to lose to below .500 teams?

Strength of schedule or not, the Wizards are playing well. And it's not like their schedule is going to get any harder after this west coast road trip.


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## MJG (Jun 29, 2003)

Well, this game has not exactly been "sloppy" in the first quarter. Offense has been very nice, and while not great, defense has been a bit better than awful.

Arenas has been ice cold. Lots of good looks and moves, but nothing's falling.


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## f22egl (Jun 3, 2004)

26-18 Wizards. Haywood is missing a lot free throws.


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## MJG (Jun 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>MJG</b>!
> defense has been a bit better than awful.


Which we follow up by allowing a 12-4 run to cut the lead down to 30-28 to end the first.


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## f22egl (Jun 3, 2004)

The offense has been effective despite a lot of turnovers, which are leading to a lot of new york's points. 7 assists have come from Arenas, Jamison, and Hughes. The wizards better do something though slow down new york's offense. They are not supposed to be a team that gets 28 in a quarter even with Houston back.


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## MJG (Jun 29, 2003)

What in the hell kind of team do we have in? Dixon, Peeler, Hayes, Ruffin, and Walker? Is EJ drunk?


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## f22egl (Jun 3, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>MJG</b>!
> What in the hell kind of team do we have in? Dixon, Peeler, Hayes, Ruffin, and Walker? Is EJ drunk?


Probably... one would figure that he'd keep at least one starter in the lineup.


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## MJG (Jun 29, 2003)

Knicks on a 27-10 run :dead: And they aren't even working all that hard to do it.


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## f22egl (Jun 3, 2004)

Arenas gets on the board with a layup. Hopefully the Knicks don't score as I'm typing this...


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## f22egl (Jun 3, 2004)

Knicks are shooting 60%, hopefully this doesn't last.


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## MJG (Jun 29, 2003)

Inside defensive presences: Haywood
Outside defensive presences: N/A

Not very good. We need Kwame back if only so Haywood doesn't have to cover the entire defensive side of the court by himself.


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## f22egl (Jun 3, 2004)

Well, it is pretty simple, the Wizards need to start playing some defense if they want to win this game, especially on the interior. Baker, Williams, Kurt Thomas, Sweetney, and Mohammed have shot 14-17 from the floor.


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## MJG (Jun 29, 2003)

It's tough to understand how our defense can be <i>this</i> horrible. I know every team can't be the Spurs, but man, getting to the level of "not very good" would be a huge step up.

On the plus side, again we are only down by a little bit despite giving the other team whatever they want. Haywood is tearing things up on both sides, and Jamison has been solid as usual.


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## Shanghai Kid (Mar 7, 2003)

I gotta put the blame on EJ again. He plays like a rotation like we're Memphis, but our bench just isn't that good. He left the starters out too long and it gave the Knicks momentum, Marbury especially lit up Dixon and got his shot going.

And our defense is so bad that I can't even help but blame EJ. Any team can be decent defensively if they have the right coach and the right system. The last 3 games teams have been shooting lights out on us, and we just can't win like that.


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## MJG (Jun 29, 2003)

Honestly, I think EJ would be much better in the role he had in New Jersey -- an assistant. He's got some good qualities, but these substitution patterns (a word I use loosely, as I rarely see much rhyme or reason in any of the subs made) alone are enough to make me think he should not be the main man calling the shots.

Three minutes into the third, and I've got to say it is looking all but impossible for us to win this one. Honest to goodness, I think New York has a great shot of breaking the all-time game FG% record (70.2) with our defense.


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## f22egl (Jun 3, 2004)

78-77 knicks ... 1 point game with Jamison going to the line to complete the 3 point play. Nice run the wiz have put together.


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## MJG (Jun 29, 2003)

I'm not sure what in the world happened, but we've actually played honest to goodness defense for 4-5 possessions in a row. Keep it up guys.


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## MJG (Jun 29, 2003)

We go on a big five minute run to turn a double digit defecit into a tie at 78-78 with just around a minute and a half left in the third. What happens from there? EJ brings in three bench players, Knicks outscore us 7-3 to end the quarter. Granted, that's not a huge run or anything, but it's little things like that that can hurt a team over the course of a game. Why not sub out one guy (who'd start the fourth), then let the other two rest the first minute of the final period?

Still no fan of Hayes. No defense and 1-4 shooting -- why does he play? Maybe that's harsh, but I don't see how he helps us.


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## MJG (Jun 29, 2003)

Arenas isn't going to wind up with a great FG%, but he's playing one nice offensive game as a whole.

101-99 Wiz on the back to back Jamison jumpers with 2:30 left.


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## adarsh1 (May 28, 2003)

dammit haywood!


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## MJG (Jun 29, 2003)

Ha I was going to be angry about that way off Jamison traveling call until I saw that way, way, way off Haywood non-call on goaltending. Things balance out 

Haywood with the offensive putback and free throw to put us up 106-104 with 7.1 left. Makes up a bit for missing the two free throws the prior possession I must say.

Nice use of the foul to give by Arenas. Made them shave about 2.5 off their 7 seconds, he took it at about the last possible moment before Marbury would've likely tried to start a shooting motion.


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## adarsh1 (May 28, 2003)

and that is the game folks

Wizards win 106-104


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## f22egl (Jun 3, 2004)

Victory! Too bad Arenas didn't have a good game but I'll still make fun of my roommate.


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## adarsh1 (May 28, 2003)

This is kind of OT, but anyone notice that Atlanta is creaming Detroit right now?


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## MJG (Jun 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>adarsh1</b>!
> This is kind of OT, but anyone notice that Atlanta is creaming Detroit right now?


Sounds good to me. Every potential loss by an east playoff caliber team team is a good one, especially at the hands of an east non-playoff or west team.


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## Shanghai Kid (Mar 7, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>f22egl</b>!
> Victory! Too bad Arenas didn't have a good game but I'll still make fun of my roommate.


Him and Jaimson took over in the 4th quarter though. He had a bad shooting night but it was a great game if you watched it.


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## f22egl (Jun 3, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Shanghai Kid</b>!
> 
> 
> Him and Jaimson took over in the 4th quarter though. He had a bad shooting night but it was a great game if you watched it.


Yeah, I couldn't watch it. aside from shooting he had a pretty good game; 20 points, 5 rebounds, and 7 assists are damn good; but an even bigger night would've been great for making fun of my roommate. 

It's a good thing the Wizards got this win. In the end, this is another team under .500 that the Wizards were supposed to beat, but if the Knicks had won, they would've been over .500. Go figure...


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## MJG (Jun 29, 2003)

Funny thing looking at the box score. Watching the game, Hughes did fine, but really didn't seem all that special. However, he wound up with 18 points on 6-12 shooting along with 6-8 FTs, 9 assists, 5 boards, and 3 steals. I never would have guessed without seeing it in writing.

Jamison with 7 assists as well is impressive. He's had a lot of games this year with 4-5 assists, he does a lot better there than his 2.6 average would indicate.

Nothing at all from the bench. 14 points on 5-17 shooting. Ruffin did a good job keeping some balls alive on offense, but he gave up at least as many scores on defense. Dixon was off all night. Hayes finished up decent, but I'm still not a fan of him so far this season.


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## NorthEast Wiz (Jul 16, 2002)

I am more than happy with the win but we shoot way too many jump shots in a row without throwing it to Haywood in the post.

A win is a win though. We need Stevie, Kwame and Etan back.


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## f22egl (Jun 3, 2004)

> After an 0-for-5 start, Arenas changed his shoes during a timeout with 1:50 remaining in the first quarter. He finished 8-for-24


Source


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## MJG (Jun 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>NorthEast Wiz</b>!
> I am more than happy with the win but we shoot way too many jump shots in a row without throwing it to Haywood in the post.
> 
> A win is a win though. We need Stevie, Kwame and Etan back.


I agree on Haywood. He was flat out dominant in the first half, yet he was basically ignored the entire second. He could've had a career game if they fed him the ball.


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## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

Brendan Haywood got not one touch in the paint in the 2nd half from an entry pass. It seemed like a jumpshooting competition. Arenas was taking bad shots from everywhere. 

Haywood won this game for us his 17 points saved us tonight. We need Brendan to give us double figures points every night to have a chance to win. 

Jamison started like he was gonna have a 40 point night then he stalled and started missing lay-ups. But in the 4th he warmed again. 

Its laughable to think about our defense on the perimeter. The Knicks were wide open for the 1st 3 quarters of the game. No one was defending them at all. 

We were trailing screens, allowing dribble penetration everything. 

Its was almost comical. 

Brendan basically needs to be stretch armstrong so he can cover the whole paint by himself. Jamison acts like he's allergic to the paint defensively. 


We need kwame back and in the flow so we can get his and Haywood's post scores. They could give us a very good post game. 

We shoot far too many jumpers its why we can't sustain leads and have to always rallly in games . The jump shot comes and goes. 

Good to win when you don't play the right way. 

Haywood bailed us out of a bad loss tonight so Kudos to him and the great game he played. 

Arenas made some good plays down the stretch. His active hands were key. 

I can't understand how we have a team on defense who has quick hands and slow feet laterally.


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## The True Essence (May 26, 2003)

i cant believe you guys got 27 offensive boards. normally, teams get around 10....at least i got haywood on my fantasy team


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## CP26 (May 8, 2003)

> at least i got haywood on my fantasy team


I didn't even know Haywood existed on fantasy teams:laugh:


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## MJG (Jun 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>PennyHardaway</b>!
> i cant believe you guys got 27 offensive boards. normally, teams get around 10....at least i got haywood on my fantasy team


Heh it happens from time to time. A normal game for us is in the low to mid teens (we are first in the league with 14+ a night), but we've had a couple of games in the mid 20s.


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## twinz2gether (May 24, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>CP26</b>!
> 
> I didn't even know Haywood existed on fantasy teams:laugh:


In big leagues he's pretty good.

I have him in mine.


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## The True Essence (May 26, 2003)

im in a 16 team league(16 players on a team!!!) where even 10th men on teams are useful. haywood was a steal actually.

16X16= A BIG number. and theres only 350 guys in the nba


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