# Brand is overrated!



## LoaKhoet (Aug 20, 2002)

I am sorry but i have to say "BRAND IS OVERRATED". Yes, he is a 20/10 player and good citizen. But the guy hasn't done much for his teams as far was the W column. People are putting him on the top-PF lists and all of this - all of that especially now that he is making the MAX dollars. 

Many of you probably disagree with me. But face it, he is just an undersized average player. He has to put up numbers because no one on his team has been able to. 

I would take Sheed over him any time.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

When exactly has Sheed increased his team in the win column? I don't see him out there winning many trailblazer games by himself. Same with Webber and every other power forward not named Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett, or Dirk Nowitzki.

I guarantee that if you put Brand on the Kings or the blazers they would win the same amount of games if not more.

And when you think about it, Karl Malone was never carrying the Jazz, he always was playing with another hall of famer who got him the ball in top positions.

Brand is underrated. If you notice for every one person ranking Brand high, there's 10 people saying Amare is better.


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## grizzoistight (Jul 16, 2002)

so since brand was stuck on a crappy team he sucks...

since kg and tmac havent won **** in the playoffs their overrated??
Since peyton manning hasnt won a playoff game hes overrated...

last time i checked no one on the clippers has won anywhere.. The clipps sucked before brand got there.. and the bulls still suck even after brand has left.. 

enough of these threads rippin brand...


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## RP McMurphy (Jul 17, 2003)

Didn't we just finish talking about this?


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>LoaKhoet</b>!
> I am sorry but i have to say "BRAND IS OVERRATED". Yes, he is a 20/10 player and good citizen. But the guy hasn't done much for his teams as far was the W column. People are putting him on the top-PF lists and all of this - all of that especially now that he is making the MAX dollars.
> 
> Many of you probably disagree with me. But face it, he is just an undersized average player. He has to put up numbers because no one on his team has been able to.
> ...


If Brands overrated for not taking his team anywhere, then guess what
CRAWFORD, CHANDLER AND CURRY ARE ALL OVERRATED by your standards. What have they done to help the W column? 

Check mate..............


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## Johnny Mac (May 6, 2003)

Brand was by far the most consistant clipper player. Just because everyone else on the team couldnt play good basketball doesnt mean you should discredit his talent. 

Hes not supposed to be a leader, hes way better fit for the quiet assassin 2nd option type player.


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## Arclite (Nov 2, 2002)

How many active players have averaged double-doubles every year of their careers? I can only think of Brand, Shaq, and Duncan. Correct me if I'm wrong, but even if there's a couple more that's pretty selective company don't you think?

Brand doesn't get stats because no one else on his team can, he gets stats because he's a blue-collar guy who goes to work every night. You don't become top 5 in the league in blocks, offensive boards, and double-doubles because no one else on your team "can put up stats". While points is definitely a stat that can be inflated due to being the main option for a bad team (see: 2002-03 Juwan Howard), offensive rebounds and blocks are dependant solely on the player. Why is Ben Wallace, who has ZERO offensive game to speak of, and couldn't beat a limbless blind man in a free throw contest not only an all-star but also hailed as one of the NBA's top players -- while Brand is labeled overrated and (now) overpaid even though he has the capability of doing the same things (and is a MUCH better man defender I might add) on defense and is also a very potent post presence on offense (something which has disappeared on most teams)?

And considering the size of many current starting centers, I would hardly call Brand at 6'8" and 270 "undersized". Even if he is 6'6" or 6'7", why does it matter? A rebound is a rebound whether you're Shawn Bradley or Earl Boykins, and being 6'4" (and that's the TRUTH) didn't stop Charles Barkley from flat out dominating most games he played in.

So he isn't Duncan or KG. Doesn't make him overrated in my book.


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## Hov (Aug 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>scj in the other thread</b>!
> The reason he isnt winning is simply because he's just not a franchise player (but that doesn't make him an average player). The Clippers need a franchise player they can build around


He is not overrated either. I never heard anyone call him a franchise player


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## NugzFan (Jul 26, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>LoaKhoet</b>!
> I am sorry but i have to say "BRAND IS OVERRATED". Yes, he is a 20/10 player and good citizen. But the guy hasn't done much for his teams as far was the W column. People are putting him on the top-PF lists and all of this - all of that especially now that he is making the MAX dollars.
> 
> Many of you probably disagree with me. But face it, he is just an undersized average player. He has to put up numbers because no one on his team has been able to.
> ...



im guessing you are a bulls fan.


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## FSH (Aug 3, 2002)

One players doesnt win games..You know this is a TEAM sport..Brand is not overrated if anything he is underratted he get a double double like every game the guy AVG over 20 points..What more could you ask from a PF? He might not win but that is because if his TEAM..Yes that is right it is a TEAM game..One man doesnt win you a championship..


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## Im The One (Sep 1, 2002)

Brand overrated? Surprising coming from a Bulls fan


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## IV (Jul 16, 2002)

*blah, blah, blah*



> Originally posted by <b>LoaKhoet</b>!
> I am sorry but i have to say "BRAND IS OVERRATED". Yes, he is a 20/10 player and good citizen. But the guy hasn't done much for his teams as far was the W column. People are putting him on the top-PF lists and all of this - all of that especially now that he is making the MAX dollars.
> 
> Many of you probably disagree with me. But face it, he is just an undersized average player. He has to put up numbers because no one on his team has been able to.
> ...


Here we go again!

Why don't the haters just label Brand the poor teams scapegoat and leave it at that. :whoknows:

P.S. I would love to see Rasheed Wallace play for a crappy team like the Bulls or Clips. He'd probably get ejected every Damn game!


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## 50-CENT (Aug 16, 2003)

> every other power forward not named Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett, or Dirk Nowitzki.


Dirk Nowitzki is prob not that much better than Sheed or Brand. Tim Duncan and Garnett are able to win alone while dirk needs nash and finley. And the real all star for the mavs is NASH. He is a proven star jus look at him making the canadien team actually a contender


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## IV (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>50-CENT</b>!
> 
> 
> Dirk Nowitzki is prob not that much better than Sheed or Brand. Tim Duncan and Garnett are able to win alone while dirk needs nash and finley. And the real all star for the mavs is NASH. He is a proven star jus look at him making the canadien team actually a contender


Dirk is a much better player than Sheed and Brand. 
Duncan nor Garnett weren't able to win alone, I'm sure TD's teammates had a lot to do with winning the title this year, and KG..... what exactly was it that he won?
Dirk doesn't need Nash, as if he can be the same player independent of Nash. Nowitski is the best player on that Maverick team, hands down.


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## Ryoga (Aug 31, 2002)

Maybe I'm wrong, but every time I see Brand I feel like he's a very good player but not a star, sure not good enough to be the best player of a contending team team, and probably neither the second one in a kobe-shaq like 1-2 punch.

Time will tell, but I want to say this: a player can't win a title alone, but sure can make his team win more that 15 games with teamates that at least look like bball players. I'm sorry, but numbers collected in such horrible teams say nothing to me, it's not the same to score 20 points when the game is on hold or when your down by 25: the second is only filling the stats-line.
Then I can't help but notice how the Bulls went from 15 to 21 wins after they traded him for an HSer... there were other moves, of course, but how can a team that traded an all star for nothing (in the short term) IMPROVE? It's not like they got Tim Duncan meanwhile...

Once again, time will tell, but I see him as a very good player in the future but not a star and not worth, so, the contract the Clippers were giving him.

Because of this reasons, consiering what's the common opinion about him, I'd call him overrated.


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## ROTTEN (Aug 28, 2003)

HOW COULD YOU SAY HES OVERRATED WHEN HES CLEARLY ONE OF TOP 25 PLAYERS IN THE LEAGUE ????? :upset:


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## Blau (Jul 2, 2003)

If Brand is overrated so is J O'neal; because dude averages are in the Top Ten in the League in almost eveery category.


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## Jim Ian (Aug 6, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ROTTEN</b>!
> HOW COULD YOU SAY HES OVERRATED WHEN HES CLEARLY ONE OF TOP 25 PLAYERS IN THE LEAGUE ????? :upset:


Let's not get crazy here. Elton Brand isn't even close to a top-25 player. 
Top 50, maybe, is more like it.


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## Blau (Jul 2, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Jim Ian</b>!
> 
> 
> Let's not get crazy here. Elton Brand isn't even close to a top-25 player.
> Top 50, maybe, is more like it.


Why isn't he a Top 15 player explain please?


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## Arclite (Nov 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Jim Ian</b>!
> 
> Elton Brand isn't even close to a top-25 player.
> Top 50, maybe, is more like it.


You're wrong. I can guarantee you couldn't come up with 25 players who are better without putting down some seriously questionable selections. Even disregarding the stats (which are absolutely amazing when you get right down to it, borderline top 10), Brand combines a strong, efficient post game on offense to a top 5 defensive presence. There aren't 25 players who are better, overall, than Brand.

If you want to say he isn't in the top 25, whatever.. But to say he is not even close is wrong.


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## Da Bull$ (Aug 11, 2003)

The only players cleary better than him IMO are Shaq, Kobe, TD, KG, Dirk, and TMAC he is on the same level or higher than everyone else.


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## IV (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Blau</b>!
> 
> 
> Why isn't he a Top 15 player explain please?


He's not 15 because generally those who are all NBA are the top 15 players in the NBA; however, I agree that he is in the top 25. Elton's game is not a flashy game. He's a boring type player like Tim Duncan, but guys who hit the glass hard, average double, doubles, and can make allstar teams are at least top 25. Since he plays for one of the worst teams in the NBA, his efforts go unnoticed by many. Nonetheless, he is a very good basketball player.


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## NYsteak (Aug 18, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>LoaKhoet</b>!
> 
> Many of you probably disagree with me. But face it, he is just an undersized average player.


Are you Ballscientist or the son of Ballscientist? I think he is top 10 PF.


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## Bball_Doctor (Dec 29, 2002)

I don't see how Brand is overrated? I have never heard anyone knowledgable call Brand the best PF in the NBA and he barely scratches into the top 5 or not at all. 

Brand is a great player. Extremly efficient and consistent. A player that will get you colse to 20 and 10 every night. A double double beast. But IMO Brand isn't a franchise player and I haven;t heard overwhelming support that says he is so. Not even from Clipper fans. Brand to me has always been best suited as a second option player, the ultimate "sidekick" or compliment to a franchise player. Like Marion to Marbury or K Mart to Kidd. In my eyes he isn't really a player who can elevate a team to superstardom as a first option. Kind of like Reef who has been through so many roster combinations that people now just acknowledge that he is not a franchise player. I kind of see the same with Brand although I believe Brand to be a somewhat better player. I even thought the same with Juwan Howard before he got his extensive contract. (His second year in which he averaged 22.1 ppg and made the allstar selection.) I always thought that Webber carried Howard and when Webber left and they tried to label Howard as the #1 man the Bullets or Wizards went downhill even with stars like Strickland and Richmond. Therefore, if you are saying "overrated" in that sense I kind of agree with you. But then as I said I don't hear an overwhelming majority calling Brand a franchise player. He might have gotten a huge contract but I don't see anyone calling Rose, Finley or Reef a franchise player with the latter not anymore. Fact is players who are not amongst the "elite" get a lot of change in today's inflated NBA economy.

I also wouldn't blame the whole Clippers disaster last season on Brand. Fact is that too many players on that team played as individuals and not as a team due to contracts. If healthy and playing as a team that Clippers team was a potential 7th or 8th playoff berth team. But once again I don't see Brand leading a team to 1st as the 1st option unless it is on a team like Dallas or Sacramento which is star studded and I guess Minnesota now too. (I won't say LA because that team is really 4 "legit" first options playing .)

Brand's a great if not very solid player who IMO is best suited to be a compliment or 2nd option. You have to keep in mind that 18 and 11 is hard to get. Hell only 3 other players accomplished that last season and their names are Shaq, Duncan, and KG. You also have to keep in mind that no one is calling Brand a top 3 or even top 5 PF today. From what I have heard the sentiments are that is top 10 or top 7 IMO. How can he be overrated if he simply is just that?


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## Knicksbiggestfan (Apr 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>LoaKhoet</b>!
> I am sorry but i have to say "BRAND IS OVERRATED". Yes, he is a 20/10 player and good citizen. But the guy hasn't done much for his teams as far was the W column. People are putting him on the top-PF lists and all of this - all of that especially now that he is making the MAX dollars.
> 
> Many of you probably disagree with me. But face it, he is just an undersized average player. He has to put up numbers because no one on his team has been able to.
> ...


Any power forward who can put up 20 and 10 in the western conference is not only a top PF but, deserves the max.



> Let's not get crazy here. Elton Brand isn't even close to a top-25 player.
> Top 50, maybe, is more like it.


I'd like to see someone come up with the top 25 players in the league and leave him off the list.


I'd put him on par with Jermaine O'neal. Anybody agree/disagree? 




> Dirk Nowitzki is prob not that much better than Sheed or Brand. Tim Duncan and Garnett are able to win alone while dirk needs nash and finley. And the real all star for the mavs is NASH. He is a proven star jus look at him making the canadien team actually a contender


I just wanted to point out that while nash is quite good, Finely is the true star of that team, he does it all, he is a complete and unselfish player. The whole time he has been in dallas he has kept his scoring average above 20 his rebound average above 5 and his assist average above 4. Not only that but these averages remained relatively the same, during the time nash and dirk were coming up forcing him to shoot less and less every year for the past 4 years.


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## THE'clip'SHOW (Sep 24, 2002)

You cannot use this "putting up numbers on a crappy team" bs. The clips haven't been crappy in the traditional sense. They lost a TON of games in the last few minutes of the game. Elton is many things but I don't think he's a clutch scorer in the traditional sense.. of creating his own shot. He puts up numbers in close games, and then the clippers can't pull out a win cause their only ex-go to guy was injured or suspended.


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## Jim Ian (Aug 6, 2002)

Coming up with a list of players that are better or on par with Brand isn't tough at all. Off the top of my head I can think of:

Shaq, Kobe, Dirk, Tmac, KG, Pierce, Iverson, Kidd, Payton, Marbury, Webber, Ben Wallace, Rasheed Wallace, Jamal Mashburn, Jalen Rose, , Marion, Walker, Arenas, Steve Nash, Spreewell, Richard Jefferson, Kenyon Martin, R. Lewis, O'Neal, Peja, Jason Williams, Jamison, Gasol, Rip Hamilton, Stackhouse, Ray Allen ,Allen Houston

He really is about as valuable as some of these guys, later on the list, like Martin and Jamison. I'd put him on par with them, somewhere around 28-32, depending on your personal preferences. But Top 15? NO WAY. Top 25... Maybe, if he shows he can lead a team to a win, something he has NEVER done in his career.

I think you guys are really missing the point. When people say he's a top-5 PF, THAT'S what makes him over-rated, because he's not. He's not in the elite group of 8 or so. He's in the 2nd group, near the top. That makes him about the 11-14th best PF in the game. Which is, math majors... in the middle... aka "average".


Group #1 (The Elite)
Duncan, KG, Dirk, Webber, Walker, Ben Wallace, Rasheed Wallace, J O'Neal 

Group #2
Brand, Jamison, Malone, Gasol, Kenyon Martin, Brian Grant, Troy Murphy, P.J Brown, Donyell Marshall, Reef A-R, Kurt Thomas, J. Howard

Now please don't give me this stuff about Brand being better then Walker, or better then Rasheed. I've seen both of them win a game for thier teams. I've NEVER seen Brand win a game. He's a lot like Reef and Jamison in that respect. You won't notice him the whole game, and when you look at the box-score, he has 17 and 11. Simply amazing. But It doens't translate into wins. And Wins are the bottom line kids. 

This is not to say he's not good. HE IS. But this Top 15 in the NBA and Top 5 PF stuff has got to be stopped.


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## jokeaward (May 22, 2003)

You can take Antoine "1st tier" Walker. I'll take Brand.


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## plasticman23 (May 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Jim Ian</b>!
> Coming up with a list of players that are better or on par with Brand isn't tough at all. Off the top of my head I can think of:
> 
> Shaq, Kobe, Dirk, Tmac, KG, Pierce, Iverson, Kidd, Payton, Marbury, Webber, Ben Wallace, Rasheed Wallace, Jamal Mashburn, Jalen Rose, , Marion, Walker, Arenas, Steve Nash, Spreewell, Richard Jefferson, Kenyon Martin, R. Lewis, O'Neal, Peja, Jason Williams, Jamison, Gasol, Rip Hamilton, Stackhouse, Ray Allen ,Allen Houston
> ...



You must not watch very many Clippers games because I have seen him win games for them on many ocassions. Yeah, I've seen Walker and Wallace do it too, but they also lose games for their teams, something Brand rarely does.

Jason Williams, Richard Jefferson, Rashard Lewis, and Houston are not on par with Brand by any means.

Puting him in the 2nd tier group with the likes of Kurt Thomas and Troy Murphy is an absolute joke.

top 10 pfs in the league:

1. Duncan
2. Garnett
3. Webber
4. Nowitzki
5. Brand
6. Ben Wallace
7. O'neal
8. Wallace
9. Walker
10. Gasol


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## BobbyDigital32 (Mar 16, 2003)

> Group #1 (The Elite)
> Duncan, KG, Dirk, Webber, Walker, Ben Wallace, Rasheed Wallace, J O'Neal
> 
> Group #2
> Brand, Jamison, Malone, Gasol, Kenyon Martin, Brian Grant, Troy Murphy, P.J Brown, Donyell Marshall, Reef A-R, Kurt Thomas, J. Howard


Holy crap. :laugh: You think Walker, B. Wallace, and R. Wallace are better than Brand? Walker shoots freakin 38% from the field. 38%! Also, Elton Brand is Ben Wallace with an offensive game. And finally, what reasoning do you have for Rasheed Wallace being better than Elton? I would like to know. In the future, please dont put Brand in the same class as Donyell Marshall.


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## mmbcstormcoach (Jun 16, 2003)

*Better players?*

That is ridiculous to say that Elton Brand isn't as good as these players which were listed above:

Jalen Rose
Gilbert Arenas
Latrell Sprewell
Richard Jefferson
Rashard Lewis
Jason Williams ( what the hell? ) He isn't one of the top 100 players in my opinion
Pau Gasol
Allan Houston


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## Da Bull$ (Aug 11, 2003)

Top 10 List

PG

1. Stephon Marbury
2. Jason Kidd
3. Gary Payton
4. Steven Nash
5. Steven Francis
6. Baron Davis
7. Andre Miller
8. Gilbert Arenas
9. Jason Williams
10.Jamal Crawford

SG

1. Tracy Mcgrady
2. Kobe Bryant
3. Paul Pierce
4. Ray Allen
5. Vince Carter
6. Jalen Rose
7. Latrell Spreewell
8. Bonzi Wells
9. Allen Houston
10.Ricky Davis

SF

1.Dirk Notwitzki
2.Shawn Marion
3.Antawn Jamison
4.Peja Stojakavic
5.Jamal Mashburn
6.Scottie Pippen
7.Ron Artest
8.Richard Jefferson
9.Glenn Robinson
10.Lamar Odom

PF

1. Tim Duncan
2. Kevin Garnett
3. Chris Webber
4. Elton Brand
5. Jermaine Oneal
6. Ben Wallace
7. Rasheed Wallace
8. Antoine Walker
9. Juwan Howard
10.Kenyon Martin

C

1. Shaquille Oneal
2. Eddy Curry
3. yao Ming
4. Brad Miller
5. Zydranus Igauskus

Put all of those 2gether for a top 25 list this is what you get.

1.Tim Duncan
2.Shaquille Oneal
3.Kevin Garnett
4.Tracy Mcgrady
5.Stephon Marbury
6.Jason Kidd
7.Kobe Bryant
8.Paul Pierce
9.Dirk Notwitzki
10.Ray Allen
11.Chris Webber
12.Elton Brand
13.Jermaine Oneal
14.Vincent Carter
15.Shawn Marion
16.Ben Wallace
17.Gary Payton
18.Steven Nash
19.Steven Francis
20.Jalen Rose
21.Antawn Jamison
22.Peja Stojakavic
23.Jamal Mashburn
24.Baron Davis
25.Latrell Spreewell

Elton Brand gets his team 19 10 a night and that is the making of a great player. He never quits and plays with a lot of heart. I have never seen Brand complain to Floyd (Bulls) or his LA Coach ????. What he doesnt have in height he makes up for it in skill. If he was 7" instead of 6"7 do you think he would be top 5 maybe MVP getting id say 25 13. But instead he get 19 10 which makes him the 12.5 best player in the NBA he is tied with JO.


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