# Why was Dominique Wilkins not voted into the Top 50 Players of all time???



## kingofkings (Jun 9, 2002)

Can anyone explain this point to me?? He finished his NBA career totalling 26,534 points, which is 8th all time in NBA regular season scoring. The knock on him was that he was a selfish player who shot too much. But, the reason why he finished his NBA career only averaging 2 assists was that he was the only scoring option for the Hawks. Who could he pass to, Doc Rivers, Tree Rollins, Cliff Levingston, Spud Webb, etc. He was a champion and deserves more respect then he got from the "experts" who voted for the top 50 players of all time. He did all he could to lead the Hawks to numerous playoff contests and epic battles with Larry Bird.

When the top 50 players of all time was announced Jordan, Magic and Bird alll came to Wilkins's defense and said that they knew that he deserved to be in that elite group of players.

To quote Wilkins, "Some of the players that were voted top 50 could not even hold my Jock,"

This quote seems to sum up the whole situation. He was robbed. he did all he could for the Hawks and what do they do, trade their best player of all time??

He was a scorer and the Hawks needed him to score otherwise the team could not win. He was the number #1 option and the team needed him to put the ball in the hole, otherwise they could not win.

So can anyone explain why he was not voted Top 50?? I really think that the "chumps" who voted for these guys need to revise the list, because this guy was robbed. He was a superstar small forward who helped build the Hawks to respectability and played his guts out every night. So who agrees that he was robbed??


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## tenkev (Jun 12, 2002)

He was just about as much of a one dimensional player as you can get


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## Sir I Gotta Go (Jul 7, 2002)

I didn't know he wasn't voted on there. 

And to think Scottie Pippen was.


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## TheRifleman (May 20, 2002)

I agree with your opinion and that of Bird, Jordan, Magic, etc.

The next time they make that list, maybe they'll leave off a Paul Arizin and put Dominique on the list.


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## Sir I Gotta Go (Jul 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>tenkev</b>!
> He was just about as much of a one dimensional player as you can get



Your point?


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## TheRifleman (May 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>tenkev</b>!
> He was just about as much of a one dimensional player as you can get


I think there are a few of those "one-dimensional" players on the top 50 players of all time, they just didn't score as much or get even the same rebounds as 'Nique got.


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## kingofkings (Jun 9, 2002)

*Here is the list!!!*

Top 50 Last Name First Name 

1 Abdul-Jabbar Kareem 
2 Archibald Nate 
3 Arizin Paul 
4 Barkley Charles 
5 Barry Rick 
6 Baylor Elgin 
7 Bing Dave 
8 Bird Larry 
9 Chamberlain Wilt 
10 Cousy Bob 
11 Cowens Dave 
12 Cunningham Billy 
13 DeBusschere Dave 
14 Drexler Clyde 
15 Erving Julius 
16 Ewing Patrick 
17 Frazier Walt 
18 Gervin George 
19 Greer Hal 
20 Havlicek John 
21 Hayes Elvin 
22 Johnson Magic 
23 Jones Sam 
24 Jordan Michael 
25 Lucas Jerry 
26 Malone Karl 
27 Malone Moses 
28 Maravich Pete 
29 McHale Kevin 
30 Mikan George 
31 Monroe Earl 
32 Olajuwon Hakeem 
33 O'Neal Shaquille 
34 Parish Robert 
35 Pettit Bob 
36 Pippen Scottie 
37 Reed Willis 
38 Robertson Oscar 
39 Robinson David 
40 Russell Bill 
41 Schayes Dolph 
42 Sharman Bill 
43 Stockton John 
44 Thomas Isiah 
45 Thurmond Nate 
46 Unseld Wes 
47 Walton Bill 
48 West Jerry 
49 Wilkens Lenny 
50 Worthy James 

Surely you can fit Wilkens in here somewhere. He improved the Hawks teams and made them a contender, year in and year out. He scored when he had to, which was all the time!!!. What, so that is a bad thing now??? Everyone wants to kill him because he was a scorer. Actually when you shoot 46% - 48%% for your career, then I would like you to keep shooting. Come on haters try and prove me wrong!!!!


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## Sir I Gotta Go (Jul 7, 2002)

Lets play a little elimination game. Who would you take off that list to put Nique on.


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## "Matt!" (Jul 24, 2002)

*Re: Here is the list!!!*

3 Arizin Paul 
7 Bing Dave 
11 Cowens Dave 
13 DeBusschere Dave 
16 Ewing Patrick 
36 Pippen Scottie 
42 Sharman Bill 
45 Thurmond Nate


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## BBallFan (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Malakian</b>!
> I didn't know he wasn't voted on there.
> 
> And to think Scottie Pippen was.


woah, woah... are you saying that Pippen didn't deserve it?

Pippen was the best defender, and in my opinion, the best all-around player in the league when he played.

Want to guess the win-dropoff the year after Jordan retired, and Pippen picked up the slack? And we're talking about the retirement of the greatest offensive player of all time.


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## Yao_Ming (Aug 11, 2002)

Just get rid of all those old white guys from the 1950's. I mean come on Paul Arazin?? George Mikan??. Those guy's would be like Pat Garrity and Eric Montross if they played today.


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## Tom (Jul 15, 2002)

*BILL WALTON?*

He didn't do enough to be on that list. He has some friends in high places. Nique did that one thing as good as anyone..Top 5 even in history. He was robbed because of ...i don't know. He wasn't popular with the voters i guess. They lost sight of his numbers and labeled him as strictly a dunker. Robbery it was.. Robbery.


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## JerryWest (Jun 24, 2002)

no way in hell nique was better then pippen...

Pippen was the best SF of his era.

Nique did have a big effect on the game, as you can see by the amount of players now who try to emulate his "Shoot alot, and score alot, make a few nice looking dunks on a bad team while ignoring defence"


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## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

I still don't understand why people think Scottie ain't top 50. During his days, he was the best SF in the league and the best all round player as well. Made 4 consicutive all NBA First Teams(2 WITHOUT MJ) and a lot of 2nd teams. Obviously he is the greatest wing defender to ever play the game. Has 10 All Defensive Team Selections(leads the NBA).

People say he is nothing without Jordan, that's nothin but BS. IN 93-94, he lead the bulls to 55 wins(only 2 less wins then the previous year) and took them all the way to the ECF. If not for that phantom foul against the Knicks, who knows how far the bulls would have gone. They definately had the team to beat the Rockets(remember, knicks took them all the way to 7 games, and the bulls took the knicks to 7 games, should have been over in 6 though). He also recieved the most # of votes for the All NBA First Team and All Defensive First team( First player to accomplish that since MJ in 88). Too bad he wasn't able to beat out The Dream in the mvp race.

The next year, Grant(second best player) was traded, and BJ(third best player) was injured. The bulls had a sorry *** front court of Luc Longley and Corie Blount. That bulls team had no business to even stay near .500, but Scottie still valiantly kept them 7 games over .500 until MJ came. He also became the first player since Dave Cowens to lead his team in all the major categories(Pts, Rbs, Asts, Stls, and blks). The bulls were only one good rebounder away from an another championship that season, too bad Rodman came one year later.

The next 3 years, the bulls defeated teams at will. Scottie had no problem in playing Robin again and continued to still be the best all round player in the nba. PJ was p*ssed off when he didn't win the DPOY in 97. 

Since having that back surgery in 98, scottie has never been the same. Age(currently 37) and 3 more surgeries has basically made him a spot up shooter. He can still play good D and shoot the clutch trey, but that's it. He can't slash, can't jump and admitted in his latest interview that every part of his body hurts.

He has had 3 straight 50 win seasons with the blazers, but he's only a small part of that success. IN his first 2 years, he was fu*kin lost in that team as far as leadership goes....last year he became the leader everybody expected him to and saved the blazers season after returning from injury(9-15 W/O him, 40-17 with him).

To say Scottie needs MJ to be a great player is nothin' but the media tryin' to suck MJ's di*k even more. It's PJ who Scottie needs IMO.....he perfectly knew how to use Scottie's talent to the fullest effect. It's no surprise the lakers have beaten Scottie ever since he left Chicago.


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## MightyReds2020 (Jul 19, 2002)

How great is Pippen? He revolutionalized the SF position. You see so many versatile SF nowadays. Pippen was the first and the only one in NBA until Grant Hill came in.

Back to the topic, I say take Jordan off and put Dominique in. Jordan is way better than most of the top 50 players. He should be in his own club


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## Sir I Gotta Go (Jul 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BBallFan</b>!
> 
> 
> woah, woah... are you saying that Pippen didn't deserve it?
> ...


Jordan was the best all around player. Jordan taught Pippen how to play defense.


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## kingofkings (Jun 9, 2002)

*BILL WALTON...*

Yeah Bill, it is time to bag on you. This guy only played in 468 NBA games yet was voted into the Top 50 players of ALL TIME??? But, he did not do enough for a long period of time like Wilkins. here is Walton's stats:
Walton's Stats: PPG RPG APG BlkPG
Career 13.3 10.5 3.4 2.2

468 career games??? I know what he did for the Blazers, but this list should be based on long term production and impact. Unfortunately Bill Walton does not fit that category. Wilkins performed at a greater level for a longer period of time. Walton does not deserve to be in this list at all. Sure injuries crippled him, but so what, the list should not be what you would have done if you were fully fit, but about what you did when you played.So Bill, if you have a problem with what I wrote here I would be more than happy to sort it out with you in person. PS I have read that he likes to browse through these kind of forums.


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## BBallFan (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Malakian</b>!
> 
> 
> Jordan was the best all around player. Jordan taught Pippen how to play defense.


Which is why Pippen had all the tough defensive matchups, right? Which is why Pippen was the offensive-creator on the team, right?

Jordan wouldn't be "Jordan" without Pippen being there.


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## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

Dominique should have been on that list but not by removing PIPPEN i Hate PIPPEN but the guy was one of the great alltime players, on both sides of the floor NIQUE is a better player I believe than Pippen was but you can't take Pippen off that list the Only 2 players that could be removed from that list is SAM JONES AND DAVE DEBUSSHERE, both were along for the ride on great teams, they were both solid but were the beneficiaries of playing with great players. 

Man ya'll got it wrong on BILL WALTON , he's one of the great Centers in NBA history,injuries cut short his career he was MVP of the League and the Finals and a multiple time allstar, he was a great passer and player, you wouldn't take GAYLE SAYERS out of the football HALL OF FAME , because he had a short career. Trust me I saw Walton play he could really do it. 

Wilkins deserves to be in but not over WALTON OR PIPPEN.


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## I'm Just Saying (Jul 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>MightyReds2020</b>!
> How great is Pippen? He revolutionalized the SF position. You see so many versatile SF nowadays. Pippen was the first and the only one in NBA until Grant Hill came in.
> 
> Back to the topic, I say take Jordan off and put Dominique in. Jordan is way better than most of the top 50 players. He should be in his own club


Wrong Elgin Baylor revolutionized the small forward position in 1958. 

If Scottie was so great defensively why did Nique, Dantley, Worthy and Bird consistantly torch him? He was good in the Bulls defensive scheme, but one-on-one he was could be had.


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## I'm Just Saying (Jul 24, 2002)

Dominique was robbed as was Adrian Dantley.

Remove Pippen and Debuschere and put Nique and Dantley in.

P.S. Arizin belongs.


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## Wilt_The_Stilt (Jun 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>I'm Just Saying</b>!
> Dominique was robbed as was Adrian Dantley.
> 
> Remove Pippen and Debuschere and put Nique and Dantley in.
> ...


I agree with this post and the one above it :yes:


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## Sir I Gotta Go (Jul 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>jazzy1</b>!
> the Only 2 players that could be removed from that list is SAM JONES AND DAVE DEBUSSHERE, both were along for the ride on great teams, they were both solid but were the beneficiaries of playing with great players.


Just like Kobe huh?


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## Sir I Gotta Go (Jul 7, 2002)

JK. I don't want to start an argument.


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## W1Z0C0Z (Jun 18, 2002)

I've argued with so many people about Pippen. I love that guy. 
My starting 5 all time team.

Magic PG, SG, SF, PF, C
Jordan SG, SF, Was a good PG, but went back to SG to score
Pippen SF and point forward
Bird SF or PF
Wilt Just stick him at C, don't need to move him anywhere

No one can match that talent and they are very versitile.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

obviously, a strong case could be made for dominique. the guy could score. one of the best scorers of his era. i'm not sure why the same outrage isn't there for dantley and english, comparable scorers around the same time (not as good at the dunk though). 

many of the players on the list were certainly more deserving than nique. pippen certainly. no question. i'm sure there's no way the bulls would have rather had nique.

as for walton, he was obviously picked for his peak play, when he was a much better player than nique (for only a few seasons).

cowens was better than nique. 

ewing definitely better than nique.

some of the older players were picked for their contributions to their era, and are debatable.

nique had longevity on his side, and he had tons of points. but don't overrate him, for he wasn't a great all-around player. give me bernard king anyday (although his injuries cost him a spot on the list).


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## TheRifleman (May 20, 2002)

Paul Arizin, Sam Jones, and Dave Debusschere (just to name 3 of those top 50) were not better than Dominique, imo. 

There were a lot of players on the top 25th who didn't make the 35th anniversary. 
Wilt was left off of the 25th and then added on the 35th anniversary list. People were ANGRY when Wilt was left off of the 25th.

Who knows when they'll have the next anniversary top whatever and then Dominique will probably make that list, just like Wilt made the 35th & 50th anniversary one and didn't make the 25th.


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## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

> If Scottie was so great defensively why did Nique, Dantley, Worthy and Bird consistantly torch him?.


This is the most stupidest thing i have ever heard. Either u r a Scottie HATER or a COLD lier. The bulls(from scottie's rookie year) have NEVER faced the Hawks and the Celtics in the playoffs, so what do u mean by sayin' crap like Nique and Bird consistenly torched him? And when Scottie met Worthy in the 91 finals, do u wanna know how brutally he outplayed Worthy? I guess not. The bulls swept Dantley and his BAD BOY *** in 91, the year Scottie made his first all defensive team. 

I've been watchin' the bulls since the Artis Gilmore days and not once do I remember the players u mentioned above scoring 30+ on Scottie.....even if they did, it was likely that they did it during the 80's when Scottie was still raw and a good defender at best. He didn't enter the elite class until the late 80's and started to lock up the oppositions best wing player since then. Just watch the 91 finals video, nobody had probably defended Magic quite Like Scottie. I hope u might have heard Scottie completely shutting down Magic's fast break in the memorable finals series?




> He was good in the Bulls defensive scheme, but one-on-one he was could be had.


Really? Then how come he made the All Defensive First team in 99 with the Rockets? And The Second Team with the Blazers in 00?

FACT: Scottie(who leads the nba with 10 defensive team selections) is the greatest wing defender of ALL TIME. The 2nd closest is MJ. Almost every b-ball expert and a knowledgeable nba fan agrees on this. 

Kobe has a career FG% of 39% against Portland, and the reason for that is - SCOTTIE PIPPEN(a little credit also to the self proclaimed Kobe stopper, Ruben Patterson).


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## I'm Just Saying (Jul 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>SPMJ</b>!
> 
> 
> This is the most stupidest thing i have ever heard. Either u r a Scottie HATER or a COLD lier. The bulls(from scottie's rookie year) have NEVER faced the Hawks and the Celtics in the playoffs, so what do u mean by sayin' crap like Nique and Bird consistenly torched him? And when Scottie met Worthy in the 91 finals, do u wanna know how brutally he outplayed Worthy? I guess not. The bulls swept Dantley and his BAD BOY *** in 91, the year Scottie made his first all defensive team.


But they faced both the Celtics and the Hawks numerous times in the regular season, and Nique TORCHED Scottie all the time. In the 91 finals Worthy had a "pulled ham string". 

And Finally to PROVE THAT YOU DON'T KNOW SPIT, Dantley wasn't on the '91 Detroit Bad Boys (they traded him in'89 for Mark Aguirre). But when he was there he owned Scottie so completely he should have gotten a marriage licence to do what he did to Scottie.

I remember after one particulaly embarassing game against Dantley, Michael said that he'd stick Dantley in the next game. Sure enough Dantley owned Scottie for the first 3 quarters so Michael decided to stick him in the fourth quarter. Dantley humiliated Michael too. He put 6 fouls on Mike in less than 12 minutes.

Basically Scottie earned his alocades because he was the second best player on the best team. By himself he wasn't as good as Nique, Dantley or English.


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## I'm Just Saying (Jul 24, 2002)

Oh Yeah I forgot, Bernard King was better than Scottie, Dominique, English or Dantley and they left him off too.

The list was based around players who won championships or played in major markets and got lots of press. For instance look at Robert Parish's Stats versus say Bob Lanier or Walt Bellamy.
Neither won or ever got deep into the playoffs. They were both better than the Chief.

This doesn't mean that the Chief or Pippen were good players, they're both all-stars. But All-Time Top 50, NO WAY!


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## TheRifleman (May 20, 2002)

As one can easily see - there will always be a differnece of opinion when it comes to judging top players.

For ME - I think that Pippen and the Chief easily belonged on the top 50 players anniversary list.

Since opinions are NOT facts, one has to realize that each of us are entitled to our own opinion.


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## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

> But they faced both the Celtics and the Hawks numerous times in the regular season, and Nique TORCHED Scottie all the time.


First thing is that i don't remember this , and 2nd of all, during the 80's, MJ was the best defender of Chicago so he used to guard the oppositions best wing player all the TIME. Three, as i can recall, i don't remember any of the players u mentioned torching Scottie. I'm yet to read it anywhere either.



> In the 91 finals Worthy had a "pulled ham string


From Scottie's rookie year to the 91 finals, the bulls faced the Lakers ONLY 6 times. I doubt if u even watched 1 of these games.

Even if Dantley beat the sh*t out of Scottie in 88 or 89, those were his rookie and sophomore years. He was still just learning and was no where near the defensive player he later went on to become.

Most of the players u have mentioned excelled only in the 80's(bird, dantley, worthy), and even if they "supposedly" torched Scottie as u say, doesn't matter cuz he was still no where near his prime. Can u point out a single player who consistently had good games against Scottie when he was in his prime? 

As far him being on The 50 Greatest List goes, I think he fully deserves it. The highlights of his career are 4 consicutive ALL NBA FIRST TEAMS(2 w/o MJ), 7 consicutive ALL DEFENSIVE FIRST TEAMS(10 overall selections, which leads the NBA) and 6 CHAMPIONSHIPS in 8 years. He was the best all round player of his era and arguably a top 5 player of the 90's too. How many players currently on the list get to say that? Only a few.


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## I'm Just Saying (Jul 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>SPMJ</b>!
> 
> 
> First thing is that i don't remember this , and 2nd of all, during the 80's, MJ was the best defender of Chicago so he used to guard the oppositions best wing player all the TIME. Three, as i can recall, i don't remember any of the players u mentioned torching Scottie. I'm yet to read it anywhere either.


The reason you don't remember is that you were probably too young. I've been watching since 1958 and have seen almost every player on the Top 50 List numerous times. I attended Bulls games since their first season in 1966 through 1990. I even played pick-up with some of the early Bulls (Jimmy Washington, Mccoy McLemore, Bob Boozer ... as well as etc) at the 83rd street YMCA in the late Sixties. I even attended the Choicago Zephyr's games (today's Washington Wizards) in the old Amphtheater. 



> From Scottie's rookie year to the 91 finals, the bulls faced the Lakers ONLY 6 times. I doubt if u even watched 1 of these games.


I was at several of those games when they played the Lakers back then.

What's your history with basketball? Maybe I'll have more respect for your opinion if I knew where you're coming from.


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## DuddyKravitz (Jun 11, 2002)

*Re: BILL WALTON?*



> Originally posted by <b>Tom</b>!
> He didn't do enough to be on that list. He has some friends in high places. Nique did that one thing as good as anyone..Top 5 even in history. He was robbed because of ...i don't know. He wasn't popular with the voters i guess. They lost sight of his numbers and labeled him as strictly a dunker. Robbery it was.. Robbery.


Bill Walton, for 3 years, was the best basketball player on the planet. Essentially, he single-handedly won the Trail Blazers a championship. Wilkens...um...he was a champion at what level? I think championships are an important indicator.

As for leaving guys like Mikan off the list, this is a silly thing to say. You can't compare generations. You have to take the best players from each basketball generation to form a list like this. It's likely someone like Rasheed Wallace, in his prime, is a better player then many of the people on the list. You can't compare Vince Carter to someone like Bob Cousy. The game has evolved, and so has the games of the players.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

No way Scottie should be taken off the list.

Someone listed Patrick Ewing to take off the list.. yeah, one of the best centers of all-time.. and I hate the guy. 

And Bill Walton is on the list because a lot of people believe had Walton not gotten so injured, he would have ended up as the greatest bigman of all time.

Nique should be on the list though, but not for those 3.


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## Joe_Canada (Jul 15, 2002)

*Re: BILL WALTON?*



> Originally posted by <b>Tom</b>!
> He didn't do enough to be on that list. He has some friends in high places. Nique did that one thing as good as anyone..Top 5 even in history. He was robbed because of ...i don't know. He wasn't popular with the voters i guess. They lost sight of his numbers and labeled him as strictly a dunker. Robbery it was.. Robbery.


If uve never seen walton play, <strike>shut the hell up. </strike><b><font color=blue>(We do NOT tell other posters to "shut up", as that is an attack upon another poster. Thanks. TR- administrator)</b></font>Hes probably one of the top 25 players of all time when he was healthy. He was the only player to ever lead the league in blocks and rebounds before last year. He won an mvp in one of his 4 healthy seasons, leading his team to a title. He was a great center, one of the greatest, had he played his full career he would be mentioned in the same breath as Kareem, and i still think he should be. Hate him for being an annoying announcer, but he was a great, great player.


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## I'm Just Saying (Jul 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Dee Bo</b>!
> And Bill Walton is on the list because a lot of people believe had Walton not gotten so injured, he would have ended up as the greatest bigman of all time.


And Len Bias should be on the List because everyone knows he would have ended up as one of the greatest of all time [if he hadn't killed himself]. 

And how about Larry Johnson, if he hadn't hurt his back, and Ralph Sampson ... etc.

FACE IT BILL WALTON WAS NOT ONE OF THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME! HE HAD ON OF THE GREATEST SEASONS OF ALL TIME (actually a season and a half).

If you were a coach and could se the future and was ofered Bill Walton or Artist Gilmore, who'd you take?????


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