# Ricky Davis to Minnesota [Merged]



## Steez

*Ricky Davis to Minnesota (Official)*

*Boston gives:*

Ricky Davis
Marcus Banks
Mark Blount
Justin Reed
Two 2nd round picks

*Minnesota gives:*

Wally Szczerbiak
Michael Olowokandi
Dwyane Jones
Cond. 1st round pick

LINK


----------



## DWest Superstar

*Re: Big Trade With Minnesota*

Wow


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## aquaitious

*Re: Big Trade With Minnesota*

nah...


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## DWest Superstar

*Re: Big Trade With Minnesota*

TNT reported it


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan

*Re: Big Trade With Minnesota*

damn pdub is gettin a hard on as we speak :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: 


im gonna miss ricky


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## pinoyboy231

*Re: Big Trade With Minnesota*

yup its official


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## aquaitious

*Re: Big Trade With Minnesota*

Are you ****ing kidding me?


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## DWest Superstar

*Re: Big Trade With Minnesota*

I'll be the first to say, I like it


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## Wilmatic2

*Re: Big Trade With Minnesota*

I don't like this trade for Boston, Ricky Davis is way better than Wally Szerbiakkdfhsdhf.


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## aquaitious

*Re: Official: Celitcs/T'Wolves trade*

Awful, awful, AWFUL trade.

http://celtics.bostonherald.com/celtics/view.bg?articleid=123127


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## DWest Superstar

*Re: Official: Celitcs/T'Wolves trade*

P-Dub still any doubt Ainge is racist?

JOKE


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## DWest Superstar

*Re: Official: Celitcs/T'Wolves trade*

You guys think this deal is nuts wait till Aigne trades for toine


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan

*Re: Official: Celitcs/T'Wolves trade*



DWest Superstar said:


> You guys think this deal is nuts wait till Aigne trades for toine




thats the only thing that would make me happy right now....i hate wally dont leave us ricky dont please


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## arenas809

*Re: Official: Celitcs/T'Wolves trade*

LOL.

Well hey at least Dwayne and Delonte are reunited.

:clap: 

[/sarcasm]


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## aquaitious

*Re: Official: Celitcs/T'Wolves trade*

This is ridiculous. I'd rather live with Blount's fumbles for 5 years @ 5 million than Wally contributing for 4 years @ 10, 11, 12, 13 million.


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## Delontes Herpes

*Re: Official: Celitcs/T'Wolves trade*

shoot me now


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## lolac101

*Re: Official: Celitcs/T'Wolves trade*

Who is Dwayne Jones??? We gave up way too much too


----------



## Delontes Herpes

*Re: Official: Celitcs/T'Wolves trade*

what's ainge's obsession with whiteys?


----------



## DWest Superstar

*Re: Official: Celitcs/T'Wolves trade*

That first rounder will make some nice trade bait


----------



## adarsh1

*Re: Official: Celitcs/T'Wolves trade*

wow that's a crap trade for the celts..it's called the gilbert arenas effect


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## pokpok

*Re: Official: Celitcs/T'Wolves trade*

seriously... i might never watch a celtics game again... trading ricky for wally is like.. the most god damn lop sided trade ever... i bet KG is having a party for this... he hates wally..

i cant believe this... i feel like punching a hole through the wall right now...

i cant wait how the fans react when wally steps on the court... it wont be pretty.


----------



## Delontes Herpes

*Re: Official: Celitcs/T'Wolves trade*

espn and foxsports report that the celtics aren't getting a first rounder.

is ainge trying to put together a team that allows 120 points a game


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## aquaitious

*Re: Official: Celitcs/T'Wolves trade*



pokpok said:


> seriously... i might never watch a celtics game again... trading ricky for wally is like.. the most god damn lop sided trade ever... i bet KG is having a party for this... he hates wally..
> 
> i cant believe this... i feel like punching a hole through the wall right now...
> 
> i cant wait how the fans react when wally steps on the court... it wont be pretty.


I really don't know how I'll be able to watch this team.


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## KingHandles

*Re: Official: Celitcs/T'Wolves trade*

I'm aside myself right now...I ****ing hate you Ainge...

Wow...I'ma go cry or something...


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan

*Re: Official: Celitcs/T'Wolves trade*

i wouldnt be surprised if ainges next move is to trade pierce to ny for david lee and a 2nd rounder :curse: :curse: :curse:


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## Delontes Herpes

*Re: Official: Celitcs/T'Wolves trade*

luckily, i go to school and NC and don't have to deal with this ****.

pierce won't be happy with wally as his 2nd fiddle, you gotta wonder if he's next to go.


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## KingHandles

*Re: Official: Celitcs/T'Wolves trade*

I would definatly be changing my mind if I was Pierce, about wanting to finish in green.

I would want to be shipped a.s.a.p.


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## aquaitious

*Re: Official: Celitcs/T'Wolves trade*



Delontes Herpes said:


> espn and foxsports report that the celtics aren't getting a first rounder.
> 
> is ainge trying to put together a team that allows 120 points a game


Danny Ainge wouldn't make a deal if there wasn't a 1st rounder. He'd trade his family for one, too.


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## Delontes Herpes

*Re: Official: Celitcs/T'Wolves trade*

aqua, you just made me laugh...ainge would trade his family for a the 20th pick in the draft...yes they are getting a 1st rounder, espn modified it.


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## aquaitious

*Re: Official: Celitcs/T'Wolves trade*

Paul must be next. 

We all may think that we've got all the bad contracts in the NBA, but you're being fooled, there's so many more that Danny can find.


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## Richie Rich

*Re: Official: Celitcs/T'Wolves trade*

This deal is not as bad as we are making it out to be, as one poster put it on the Blazers board it's Ricky for Wally (pretty even) disgruntled center for disgruntled center, (even), and disgruntled PG and 2nd rounders for bench/nbdl guy and 1st rounder (pretty even), and yes i love ricky davis and im not sure what he did wrong to get traded, i mean hes 26, cheap, and scoring 20 a game...it boggles my mind, but thatz why we are posting on message boards and danny is pulling the trigger.


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## Richie Rich

*Re: Official: Celitcs/T'Wolves trade*



aquaitious said:


> Paul must be next.
> 
> We all may think that we've got all the bad contracts in the NBA, but you're being fooled, there's so many more that Danny can find.


Knicks are far worse off, and guys that do not even produce (ala penny)


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## aquaitious

*Re: Official: Celitcs/T'Wolves trade*



Richie Rich said:


> This deal is not as bad as we are making it out to be, as one poster put it on the Blazers board it's Ricky for Wally (pretty even) disgruntled center for disgruntled center, (even), and disgruntled PG and 2nd rounders for bench/nbdl guy and 1st rounder (pretty even), and yes i love ricky davis and im not sure what he did wrong to get traded, i mean hes 26, cheap, and scoring 20 a game...it boggles my mind, but thatz why we are posting on message boards and danny is pulling the trigger.


Yes, now he's assembled the best medicore and over paid team he possibly could get. 

He probably tried to keep Blount too.

Blount/Veal/Baker
Raef/Veal/Baker
Wally/Veal

Woooooooo, we're going to the finals.


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## LX

*Re: Official: Celitcs/T'Wolves trade*

....

Wow. Just wow. 

What's the over/under on Pierce being gone before the trade deadline?


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## DWest Superstar

*Re: Official: Celitcs/T'Wolves trade*



Lanteri said:


> ....
> 
> Wow. Just wow.
> 
> What's the over/under on Pierce being gone before the trade deadline?


I think this makes it so Pierce stays


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## Richie Rich

*Re: Official: Celitcs/T'Wolves trade*



aquaitious said:


> Yes, now he's assembled the best medicore and over paid team he possibly could get.
> 
> He probably tried to keep Blount too.
> 
> Blount/Veal/Baker
> Raef/Veal/Baker
> Wally/Veal
> 
> Woooooooo, we're going to the finals.


no offense but you obviously dont know what you are talking about in this sense and everyone is speaking from pure emotional shock right now. trades happen and this happened for a reason, this is sports, and like i said, i dont agree with the deal, but its not the worst deal ever.


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## arenas809

*Re: Official: Celitcs/T'Wolves trade*



Richie Rich said:


> it boggles my mind, but thatz why we are posting on message boards and danny is pulling the trigger.


Babcock was pulling the trigger in Toronto, what's your point?


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## aquaitious

*Re: Official: Celitcs/T'Wolves trade*

Maybe Danny's sick of half-assed rebuilding so now he's going with full-assed rebuilding.

Our attendance dropped to like 13 thousand (from 17), expect it to have another big drop starting 20 minutes ago.


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## Richie Rich

*Re: Official: Celitcs/T'Wolves trade*



arenas809 said:


> Babcock was pulling the trigger in Toronto, what's your point?


my point is these guys dont get to these positions by posting on message board, get real


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan

*Re: Official: Celitcs/T'Wolves trade*

charles barkley just said he thinks UConn would beat the celtics....thanks danny thanks :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:


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## LX

*Re: Official: Celitcs/T'Wolves trade*

Why would Pierce want to stay now? The team just got even worse. I don't see why Pierce would even want to consider playing with Wally. The guy is terrible defensively. There was nothing wrong at all with Ricky. 

This is really going to throw our offense off as well IMO. Ricky was a playmaker, who was IMO our best "Point Guard" out there on the floor. Who's going to run the show now? Paul? He already turns it over 3.2 times per game. 

I just don't understand why they would do this. Our team was starting to gel fairly nicely, then you get this. This is just outrageous.


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## Richie Rich

*Re: Official: Celitcs/T'Wolves trade*



Lanteri said:


> Why would Pierce want to stay now? The team just got even worse. I don't see why Pierce would even want to consider playing with Wally. The guy is terrible defensively. There was nothing wrong at all with Ricky.
> 
> This is really going to throw our offense off as well IMO. Ricky was a playmaker, who was IMO our best "Point Guard" out there on the floor. Who's going to run the show now? Paul? He already turns it over 3.2 times per game.
> 
> I just don't understand why they would do this. Our team was starting to gel fairly nicely, then you get this. This is just outrageous.


Can't disagree here, we've been in so many close games and keeping our core together should be vital so what the hell is he thinking? I really dont get it man.


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## Richie Rich

*Re: Official: Celitcs/T'Wolves trade*



#1AntoineWalkerFan said:


> charles barkley just said he thinks UConn would beat the celtics....thanks danny thanks :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:


i dont take anything he says seriously, but yea lol thatz kinda funny


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## aquaitious

*Re: Official: Celitcs/T'Wolves trade*



Richie Rich said:


> no offense but you obviously dont know what you are talking about in this sense and everyone is speaking from pure emotional shock right now. trades happen and this happened for a reason, this is sports, and like i said, i dont agree with the deal, but its not the worst deal ever.



Yeah, Danny knows what he's doing, he's turned this team into 8th seed hopefulls.


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## Richie Rich

*Re: Official: Celitcs/T'Wolves trade*



aquaitious said:


> Yeah, Danny knows what he's doing, he's turned this team into 8th seed hopefulls.


Like I said, I don't agree with it, but we get rid of reed, big deal, banks, o well, blount who EVERYONE has been praying to get rid of, and yes ricky which is a mystery to me as to why also...I do not like the trade either, I am in shock, I wish he gave up Banks Blount and Reed for anything and kept Ricky, why he did this I do not know...


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan

*Re: Official: Celitcs/T'Wolves trade*



aquaitious said:


> Yeah, Danny knows what he's doing, he's turned this team into 8th seed hopefulls.




more like 1st overall pick hopefulls


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## aquaitious

*Re: Official: Celitcs/T'Wolves trade*



#1AntoineWalkerFan said:


> more like 1st overall pick hopefulls


...good timing. I could have sworn that James was picked two years ago.


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## KingHandles

*Re: Official: Celitcs/T'Wolves trade*



#1AntoineWalkerFan said:


> more like 1st overall pick hopefulls


With the ****tiest draft ever coming up...

****ed this franchise straight in the ***....


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## arenas809

*Re: Official: Celitcs/T'Wolves trade*



aquaitious said:


> ...good timing. I could have sworn that James was picked two years ago.


Trade Pierce for expirings and you can make a run at Oden in 07.


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## DontTradePaul!

*Re: Official: Celitcs/T'Wolves trade*

WHY ME CRUEL WORLD? Wally Sczerbiak is basically a poor man's Paul Pierce....how will he complement Paul any better than the Ricky Davis the slashing machine? Besides all the excitement and skills Ricky brought to the table, i will miss the FRO the most. Maybe Wally could get one and i'd feel a little better about this trade, not much...but a little.

does this trade actually clear up much cap room? i can see it going down if we get oodles of cap sapce or expiring contracts or whatever, but if its just Wally for Ricky and some throw-ins....why do it?


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## P-Dub34

*Re: Official: Celitcs/T'Wolves trade*

Wow...

Guys...

I love Wally Szczerbiak. Don't get me wrong. And he's finally starting to earn his salary this year.

But this is just an atrocious, atrocious trade.


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## aquaitious

*Re: Official: Celitcs/T'Wolves trade*



DontTradePaul! said:


> WHY ME CRUEL WORLD? Wally Sczerbiak is basically a poor man's Paul Pierce....how will he complement Paul any better than the Ricky Davis the slashing machine? Besides all the excitement and skills Ricky brought to the table, i will miss the FRO the most. Maybe Wally could get one and i'd feel a little better about this trade, not much...but a little.
> 
> does this trade actually clear up much cap room? i can see it going down if we get oodles of cap sapce or expiring contracts or whatever, but if its just Wally for Ricky and some throw-ins....why do it?


It does not clear cap room. In fact, we add 10, 11, 12, and 13 million for the next four years.

EDIT:

Wally is not a poor man's Paul Pierce....Wally's a poor man who should be carrying Pierce's luggage.


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan

*Re: Official: Celitcs/T'Wolves trade*



P-Dub34 said:


> Wow...
> 
> Guys...
> 
> I love Wally Szczerbiak. Don't get me wrong. And he's finally starting to earn his salary this year.
> 
> But this is just an atrocious, atrocious trade.





dayummmmmmmmmm u know its a bad trade when ur favorite player goes to ur favorite team and u call it an atrocious trade....damnit!!!!!


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## LX

*Re: Official: Celitcs/T'Wolves trade*



DontTradePaul! said:


> WHY ME CRUEL WORLD? Wally Sczerbiak is basically a poor man's Paul Pierce....


:rofl:

Poor man's Paul Pierce? 

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:


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## P-Dub34

*Re: Official: Celitcs/T'Wolves trade*



> Wally's a poor man who should be carrying Pierce's luggage.


Guys, cut Wally some slack. It's not his fault he's overpaid, nor is it his fault he got traded. But we have to roll with the punches here. Let's give S a chance before we write him off as total garbage. He's having a really great year so far. 

But Ricky > Wally. Now and forever. At half the price.

Why we traded Davis is beyond me. I love S. One of my Top 3-4 favorite players. But I liked him in a T-Pup jersey. Hopefully he can contribute to the Celtics. I never thought I'd see Szczerbiak traded without Garnett with that outrageous long term deal.

But give him a chance. He has been developing a bit of a post game, is a smart passer, and by no means elite, he can slash a bit. He's not utterly one-dimensional. He at least tries on defense, but he's a downgrade on Slick.

Should make for some interesting viewings on Monday. I have tickets to that game.


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## aquaitious

*Re: Official: Celitcs/T'Wolves trade*



P-Dub34 said:


> Guys, cut Wally some slack. It's not his fault he's overpaid, nor is it his fault he got traded. But we have to roll with the punches here. Let's give S a chance before we write him off as total garbage. He's having a really great year so far.
> 
> But Ricky > Wally. Now and forever. At half the price.
> 
> Why we traded Davis is beyond me. I love S. One of my Top 3-4 favorite players. But I liked him in a T-Pup jersey. Hopefully he can contribute to the Celtics. I never thought I'd see Szczerbiak traded without Garnett with that outrageous long term deal.
> 
> But give him a chance. He has been developing a bit of a post game, is a smart passer, and by no means elite, he can slash a bit. He's not utterly one-dimensional. He at least tries on defense, but he's a downgrade on Slick.
> 
> Should make for some interesting viewings on Monday. I have tickets to that game.


True, we can't be mad at the players that got traded. There's room for only one enemy: Danny Ainge.

This deal should have never happend. 

Maybe Davis was included becuase Danny insisted on a first rounder?


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## Premier

*Re: Official: Celitcs/T'Wolves trade*

My head hurts.

I'm honestly speechless.


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## PilgrimPride

*Re: Official: Celitcs/T'Wolves trade*

I maybe white but this is not right Davis is a SG, Wally a SF, are we going to move PP to the SG or is Wally moving outside???

Ricky I will miss you and yes Wally is ok but this trade in Charles "B" words makes no sense for either team.

Tine shall tell oh well go green I continue to dream. This is as bad as the Red Sox current situation, SS, CF, is Manny happy, how about Wells, is Schillling going to be thrilling or will be spilling our tears over all these fears.

Pilgrim in Japan


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## pokpok

*Re: Ricky Davis to Minnesota (Official)*

if i was paul... id demand a trade right now.. .pull a ron artest...

the team is already half ruined... if i was paul... i would asked to leave asap... yea.. it might be selfish... but playing for Danny Ainge is worse cuz hes such a backstabber...

the only way danny can redeem himself is to pull a trade soon that would send wally and someone else for a high caliber type player that we can cheer about...if not... then i just might need to call up comcast to cut my cable cuz theres not point in watching the celtics anymore.


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## P-Dub34

*Re: Official: Celitcs/T'Wolves trade*



> There's room for only one enemy: Danny Ainge.


Amen.


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan

*Re: Ricky Davis to Minnesota (Official)*

nesn sportsdesk just said davis was becoming the face of this franchise along with paul pierce, now hes off to minnesota...im mad..



and another thing...IF we were gonna trade ricky why the **** couldnt we get artest???...rickys better than peja and i woulda thrown in a first rounder and banks to get it done if i had to...ugh...


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## Premier

*Re: Official: Celitcs/T'Wolves trade*

Kevin McHale looks like a genius.

Wow, Minnesota is scary right now.


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## DontTradePaul!

*Re: Ricky Davis to Minnesota (Official)*

ahem, well when i said poor i meant POOR. in no way was i comparing Wally to Pierce favorably! I meant Wally's skill-set is more comparable to Pierce's than Ricky's was. They have similarities, but i know Paul is vastly superior in all aspects of basketball. I just dont see Wally complementing Paul's skills as well as Ricky did.


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan

*Re: Ricky Davis to Minnesota (Official)*

i want to cry


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## Unique

*Re: Ricky Davis to Minnesota (Official)*

Wow you guys got raped, but hey look at the bright side...You didnt trade away shaq


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## pokpok

*Re: Ricky Davis to Minnesota (Official)*

starting five

delonte west - skin color is white enough to be white
wally sczerkeeirkbiak - white 
paul pierce
brian scalabrine- white
raef lafrentz- white

HEY DANNY.. .TRADE PAUL FOR KIRK HINRICH AND YOUR WHITE UNIT MOVEMENT WILL BE FORMED.

im gonna go cry myself to sleep... ill deal with this tomorrow after my 8am anatomy lab :curse:


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## Attila

*Re: Ricky Davis to Minnesota (Official)*



Steez said:


> *Boston gives:*
> 
> Ricky Davis
> Marcus Banks
> Mark Blount
> Justin Reed
> Two 2nd round picks
> 
> *Minnesota gives:*
> 
> Wally Szczerbiak
> Michael Olowokandi
> Dwyane Jones
> Cond. 1st round pick
> 
> LINK


 That really sucks!


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## lolac101

*Re: Ricky Davis to Minnesota (Official)*

Realistically, the starting five most likely would be: Perk, Raef, Paul, Allen, West. Allen did do a pretty good job at it last year. I can kinda see what Danny is trying to do.


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## DWest Superstar

*Re: Ricky Davis to Minnesota (Official)*

It should be

C- Perk
PF- Jefferson
SF- Wally
SG- Pierce
PG- West


----------



## P-Dub34

*Re: Ricky Davis to Minnesota (Official)*

Wow, that's going too far. Say what you will about S, but he's certainly a starter on this team. The dude is averaging 20+ ppg this year.


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## aquaitious

*Re: Ricky Davis to Minnesota (Official)*



P-Dub34 said:


> Wow, that's going too far. Say what you will about S, but he's certainly a starter on this team. The dude is averaging 20+ ppg this year.


I think what sucks is that Pierce will be moved to the 2 spot, and we tried that once already...didn't go too well.


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## banner17

*Mark Blunt's contract is a steal!!!....*

compared to Wally's

sorry, I'm so pissed I had to start a new thread. Not only to we pick up an inferior player to Ricky, we get a FAR worse contract than Blount and are stuck in salary cap hell for YEARS

I wonder if Raef and Wally are kicking Dainge some cash on the side


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## lolac101

*Re: Ricky Davis to Minnesota (Official)*

We don't need Pierce guarding the opposing teams best player. Allen should start and wally comes off the bench to give the offensive spark. Most likely, wally will end the game as Ricky did last year.


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## P-Dub34

*Re: Ricky Davis to Minnesota (Official)*

I think somebody tried to convince Wally to come off the bench once. How did that work out, again?


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## lolac101

*Re: Ricky Davis to Minnesota (Official)*

Ricky used to be a headcase and how did that work?


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## P-Dub34

*Re: Mark Blunt's contract is a steal!!!....*

Wally, at this year's rate of play, is overpaid by about three million dollars max. You just wait til he's making Pierce money. Then you can complain.


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## Premier

*Re: Mark Blunt's contract is a steal!!!....*

Blount, disregarding Wally, is paid what he should be paid. Average centers get the MLE. In some cases, they get more than the MLE (Adonal Foyle).


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## P-Dub34

*Re: Ricky Davis to Minnesota (Official)*

S isn't the headcase Slick was. But if you think Wally will go to the bench without a fight/bad blood/locker room chemistry issues, well...you're nuts.


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## PatBateman

*Re: Ricky Davis to Minnesota (Official)*

I am no longer watching the Celtics until Danny Ainge is fired.


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## P-Dub34

*Re: Mark Blunt's contract is a steal!!!....*

What's the going rate for 20ppg scorers?


----------



## banner17

*Re: Mark Blunt's contract is a steal!!!....*



P-Dub34 said:


> What's the going rate for 20ppg scorers?



about 6 million if your names Ricky Davis


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## P-Dub34

*Re: Mark Blunt's contract is a steal!!!....*

Right, but do you think Slick will be signing a 6 mill contract when this one expirers? Hell no.


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan

*Re: Mark Blunt's contract is a steal!!!....*



P-Dub34 said:


> Right, but do you think Slick will be signing a 6 mill contract when this one expirers? Hell no.




tru...but something that i dont think but i KNOW is that wally is making 50 million over the next 4 yrs :nonono: :nonono: :nonono:


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## lolac101

*Re: Ricky Davis to Minnesota (Official)*



P-Dub34 said:


> S isn't the headcase Slick was. But if you think Wally will go to the bench without a fight/bad blood/locker room chemistry issues, well...you're nuts.


Wally won't be as bad as blount so Doc should be able to handle him. IF Doc want wally coming off the bench then thats what he'll do. Has Doc ever catered to any players demand before. Remember what he did with Pierce last year?


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## P-Dub34

*Re: Mark Blunt's contract is a steal!!!....*

Of course Wally is overpaid. At 13 mill he's way overpaid. At 10 mill he's not THAT far from what the going rate is.

I know I'm going to be the only one to do so, but I'll welcome Wally to the C's. Not his fault he's here.

I'm not saying Doc couldn't make S come off the bench, but if you want the best out of him you'll start him.


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## Causeway

*Re: Mark Blunt's contract is a steal!!!....*

I am a big RD fan so I am not thrilled about this. He's been a pro since coming here. Always comes to play. Seems like a good teammate locker room guy. High energy. Seemed to work well with Pierce. And I have not seen much of Wally but my concern on him is part of the reason he's been pretty good is he'd played with KG who is not human. And if people were worried about RD's D...wait till you see Wally's D...

However here's _some_ bright side:

* Blount is gone.
* Wally does not turn the ball over.
* Wally is a good half-court offense guy - something we could use help in.
* Blount is gone.

outside of that I don't know. My gut does not like this. But I was not thrilled when we got Ricky and now I am sad to see him go so...we'll see.

* Blount is gone.
* Blount is gone. (was I the last Celtics fan to get his autograph while he played for the Celtics )


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## lolac101

*Re: Mark Blunt's contract is a steal!!!....*

I okay with Wally being here too. More allen and gomes. Wally seriously can't be given ricky 40+ minutes of playing time.


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## aquaitious

*Re: Mark Blunt's contract is a steal!!!....*



P-Dub34 said:


> Of course Wally is overpaid. At 13 mill he's way overpaid. At 10 mill he's not THAT far from what the going rate is.
> 
> I know I'm going to be the only one to do so, but I'll welcome Wally to the C's. Not his fault he's here.
> 
> I'm not saying Doc couldn't make S come off the bench, but if you want the best out of him you'll start him.



Wally won't be a 20 point scorer in Boston.

Sorry, no more doubling KG in the paint and passing to an wide open Wally...

Ricky can create his own shoot too.

Ah well.

I'm going to bed. Maybe Danny will fire that Dainge Rivers guy, then get fired himself.


----------



## aquaitious

*Re: Mark Blunt's contract is a steal!!!....*



Causeway said:


> I am a big RD fan so I am not thrilled about this. He's been a pro since coming here. Always comes to play. Seems like a good teammate locker room guy. High energy. Seemed to work well with Pierce. And I have not seen much of Wally but my concern on him is part of the reason he's been pretty good is he'd played with KG who is not human. And if people were worried about RD's D...wait till you see Wally's D...
> 
> However here's _some_ bright side:
> 
> * Blount is gone *and so is Ricky*.
> * Wally does not turn the ball over.
> * Wally is a good half-court offense guy - something we could use help in.
> * Blount is gone *and so is Ricky*.
> 
> outside of that I don't know. My gut does not like this. But I was not thrilled when we got Ricky and now I am sad to see him go so...we'll see.
> 
> * Blount is gone. *and so is Ricky*
> * Blount is gone. *and so is Ricky* (was I the last Celtics fan to get his autograph while he played for the Celtics )


Sorry, but that's all I saw everytime I read "Blount is gone."


----------



## Blazer Freak

*Re: Mark Blunt's contract is a steal!!!....*



Causeway said:


> I am a big RD fan so I am not thrilled about this. He's been a pro since coming here. Always comes to play. Seems like a good teammate locker room guy. High energy. Seemed to work well with Pierce. And I have not seen much of Wally but my concern on him is part of the reason he's been pretty good is he'd played with KG who is not human. And if people were worried about RD's D...wait till you see Wally's D...
> 
> However here's _some_ bright side:
> 
> * Blount is gone.
> * Wally does not turn the ball over.
> * Wally is a good half-court offense guy - something we could use help in.
> * Blount is gone.
> 
> outside of that I don't know. My gut does not like this. But I was not thrilled when we got Ricky and now I am sad to see him go so...we'll see.
> 
> * Blount is gone.
> * Blount is gone. (was I the last Celtics fan to get his autograph while he played for the Celtics )


Wrong. Wally does turn the ball over, and a lot. A few weeks ago, he averaged 4 topg for quite a while. But Blount is gone and thats the best thing.


----------



## KingHandles

*Re: Ricky Davis to Minnesota (Official)*

We might as well start him. If you trade your second best player for a player than you are not going to start, why the hell would you do it in the first place? He's not bad, I'll welcome him. I'm just so damn mad about the fact we traded Ricky for him when we could have gotten something so much better.


----------



## ZWW

*Re: Ricky Davis to Minnesota (Official)*

My gut feeling when the trade happened:

"I don't like it."


----------



## aquaitious

*Re: Mark Blunt's contract is a steal!!!....*



Blazer Freak said:


> Wrong. Wally does turn the ball over, and a lot. A few weeks ago, he averaged 4 topg for quite a while. But Blount is gone and thats the best thing.


Bah, you're right, he averages one less TO though, in nine more minutes than Blount *did when he was here.*


----------



## aquaitious

*Re: Ricky Davis to Minnesota (Official)*



ZWW said:


> My gut feeling when the trade happened:
> 
> "I don't like it."


My initial reaction to this



> Big Trade With Minnesota
> 
> Wally + Kandi to Boston for Ricky + Blount + Banks


was:



> nah...


----------



## Causeway

*Re: Mark Blunt's contract is a steal!!!....*



Blazer Freak said:


> Wrong. Wally does turn the ball over, and a lot. A few weeks ago, he averaged 4 topg for quite a while. But Blount is gone and thats the best thing.


does he really? I thought he had a low topg but I did not look it up.


----------



## Causeway

*Re: Mark Blunt's contract is a steal!!!....*



aquaitious said:


> Bah, you're right, he averages one less TO though, in nine more minutes than Blount *did when he was here.*


damn still not good. and not what I thought.


----------



## Causeway

*Re: Mark Blunt's contract is a steal!!!....*

Interesting that RD is now in Minny. His game (not the hair) sometimes reminds me of Sprees game and he had a nice little run in Minny (before he started worrying about feeding his kids and all that...).


----------



## DontTradePaul!

*Re: Ricky Davis to Minnesota (Official)*

man, if only spree didnt have kids to feed........


----------



## Premier

*Re: Official: Celitcs/T'Wolves trade*

I could imagine McHale beating Ainge in a frivolous game of rocks-papers-scissors and forcing him into this trade. That's the only explanation I can think of.


----------



## BackwoodsBum

*Re: Mark Blunt's contract is a steal!!!....*



Causeway said:


> I am a big RD fan so I am not thrilled about this. He's been a pro since coming here. Always comes to play. Seems like a good teammate locker room guy. High energy. Seemed to work well with Pierce. And I have not seen much of Wally but my concern on him is part of the reason he's been pretty good is he'd played with KG who is not human. And if people were worried about RD's D...wait till you see Wally's D...
> 
> However here's _some_ bright side:
> 
> * Blount is gone.
> * Wally does not turn the ball over.
> * Wally is a good half-court offense guy - something we could use help in.
> * Blount is gone.
> 
> outside of that I don't know. My gut does not like this. But I was not thrilled when we got Ricky and now I am sad to see him go so...we'll see.
> 
> * Blount is gone.
> * Blount is gone. (was I the last Celtics fan to get his autograph while he played for the Celtics )



Causeway makes some good points here but I think he forgot to mention that Blount is gone 

Seriously though, I'm a big RD fan and hate to see him leave. I think Minnesota got a steal and KG is going to LOVE his new teammate. Wally OTOH is a totally different player and one who _can_ help this team. Sure his contract sucks, but like others have said you can't blame him for that. I know others have suggested it and been called crazy, but IMHO Wally is an ideal player to be the leader of the second unit. Right now the C's are getting killed offensively when Pierce goes to the bench. Let Allen start at the 2 and leave Pierce at the 3. Bring Wally in for Pierce with Jefferson, Greene, etc. and he can add stability to the half court offense plus he can spread the defense giving Big Al room to work. Olowokandi is a stiff but he is an expiring stiff and the importance of getting rid of Blount and his piss poor attitude cannot be overlooked. More importantly this basically hands the Center position to my man Perkins! No more getting benched so that Blount won't pout. It also might mean more minutes for Gomes since we really gave up three players on the active roster for 2 plus a guy that will probably be bound for the D league. 

Did the C's give up too much just to dump Blount, Hell Yes! Does this doom the team to losing? I don't think so. Lets see how the players react to the trade before we give up all hope. I'll be shocked if Pierce is traded so even though he has lost his #2 man again, the maturity he has shown this year makes me think that this time it won't affect him nearly as much as losing Walker did. If Wally will be a team player and accept the responsibility of being the main man on the second unit I think this trade actually stabilizes what has been a confusing mess this season with the rotations. Wally will know that until Jefferson, Perkins, West, etc. are ready to take over as the team leaders he'll in reality be #2 on the team despite not being a starter so it's really no difference than his status in Minnesota. 

Anyway, I'm not thrilled with this trade, but I'm going to reserve final judgement until I see how the new guys mesh with the existing players. Whether it works or not I'm not giving up on the C's. I've been a Celtic fan for more years than most of you gives have been alive so I don't think anything could make me change my loyalty. Hell, I survived Rick Pitino and ML Carr, how bad can this be


----------



## Causeway

*Re: Ricky Davis to Minnesota (Official)*

Ainge in Globe:



> ''We feel Wally can complement Paul in a different way," said Ainge. ''Wally is a high-percentage shooter and he's a better post-up player. *But more than anything, he's just different * than Ricky. We have a couple of young athletic wings in Gerald Green and Tony Allen. Wally is a better shooter than everybody in this deal. *More than anything, we just want to see how it all works.* We believe it [Pierce and Szczerbiak] will be a great combination.
> 
> ''We like Ricky. This is not about us getting rid of Ricky. This is about us getting an All-Star small forward that's *different*. Wally brings more to the table than just being a shooter. I've always liked his toughness, his intensity, and his consistency as a shooter."


I am an Ainge fan...but what??? ok. Wally is "different". Whatever that means. And "More than anything, we just want to see how it all works"? More than _anything_? I'd like to see that too but that's why you make this trade - you want to more than anything see how it all works? That gives me a lot of confidence. How about at least some BS like "we are very confident this will work and that Wally will compliment Paul and the reast of the guys in a better way than Ricky did" or some crap like that. 

anyway...


----------



## Premier

*Re: Mark Blunt's contract is a steal!!!....*

This team has no identity at all.

That can not be refuted.


----------



## ZWW

*Re: Ricky Davis to Minnesota (Official)*

Another white dude, interesting.

Well guys, on the bright side, I just got back from Germany and saw Danny Ainge picking out new uniforms in a Berlin shop.

:uhoh: Ummm, not exactly green and white let's say. :laugh:


----------



## Causeway

*Re: Mark Blunt's contract is a steal!!!....*



BackwoodsBum said:


> Anyway, I'm not thrilled with this trade, but I'm going to reserve final judgement until I see how the new guys mesh with the existing players. Whether it works or not I'm not giving up on the C's. I've been a Celtic fan for more years than most of you gives have been alive so I don't think anything could make me change my loyalty. Hell, I survived Rick Pitino and ML Carr, how bad can this be


Me too Bum!


----------



## DontTradePaul!

*Re: Ricky Davis to Minnesota (Official)*

either rock paper scissors, OR an old bet McHale had over Ainge from their playing days. And Ainge was sure McHale would forget he owed him one BIG TIME.....but here we are. up the creek without a Ricky Davis.

but i buy that rock, paper, scissors, theory just as much. :biggrin:


----------



## Causeway

*Re: Mark Blunt's contract is a steal!!!....*

By the way - in case you are having trouble cutting and pasting:

Spelling time:

S Z C Z E R B I A K

We know it starts with an S. Remember the Z C Z that follows and you'll have it. The ERBIAK is easy to remember.

OK, everyone together:

S Z C Z

S Z C Z

S Z C Z

Do 3 sets of these, followed by 3 sets of:

ERBIAK

ERBIAK

ERBIAK

and by morning you will be able to spell Wally Szczerbiak with ease.


----------



## Premier

*Re: Ricky Davis to Minnesota (Official)*

one positive (perhaps the only one)


----------



## P-Dub34

*Re: Mark Blunt's contract is a steal!!!....*

Hey, at least he has a cool name.


----------



## Causeway

*Re: Mark Blunt's contract is a steal!!!....*



P-Dub34 said:


> Hey, at least he has a cool name.


I don't know man - where I grew up you got beat down if your name was Wally


----------



## ZWW

*Re: Ricky Davis to Minnesota (Official)*

He's scoring 20 this year and he's a career 50% shooter.

Other than that, if my yawn gets any bigger, an oceanographer will have to assign it a hurricane name.


----------



## P-Dub34

*Re: Mark Blunt's contract is a steal!!!....*



> I don't know man - where I grew up you got beat down if your name was Wally


I meant the Szczerbiak part, but I guess he would've got beat up for being an immigrant, then.


----------



## Premier

*Re: Ricky Davis to Minnesota (Official)*

Szczerbiak is a great addition to a contending team.

"_This team has no identity_"


----------



## Causeway

*Re: Mark Blunt's contract is a steal!!!....*

on second thought - or more like my 10th thought or so on this...

* I do think we neded a change. I'll miss Ricky but I'll get over it. Among otherthings he could be careless with the ball.
* Wally is a pure shooter. We have not really had a pure shooter since - well since Reggie. This could open the middle some for AJ.
* We got another first round pick.
* Blount is gone. I love that sentence.

goodnight all.


----------



## Causeway

*Re: Mark Blunt's contract is a steal!!!....*

...


----------



## Premier

*Re: Mark Blunt's contract is a steal!!!....*



Causeway said:


> on second thought - or more like my 10th thought or so on this...
> 
> * I do think we neded a change. I'll miss Ricky but I'll get over it. Among otherthings he could be careless with the ball.
> * Wally is a pure shooter. We have not really had a pure shooter since - well since Reggie. THis could open the middle some for AJ.
> * We got another first round pick.
> * Blount is gone. I love that sentence.
> 
> goodnight all.


The major point you're missing is that Ainge is being financially irresponsible with this deal.

Anyways, Spanish Five quiz to study for.


----------



## Blazer Freak

*Re: Ricky Davis to Minnesota (Official)*

Wally Szczerbiak! I GOT IT I SPELT IT RIGHT! YES!


----------



## ZWW

*Re: Mark Blunt's contract is a steal!!!....*



Premier said:


> The major point you're missing is that Ainge is being financially irresponsible with this deal.


That's my biggest quiver with the deal. People keep saying (on another message board I frequently visit) that it's great that we got rid of Blount's contract but is anyone paying attention to Wally's deal? Taking on Wally's deal almost nullifies Blount's.


----------



## DontTradePaul!

*Re: Ricky Davis to Minnesota (Official)*

its Wally's World now, and we are just living in it.

No blount is a good blount.....even if we got the Kandi man instead.


----------



## KingHandles

*Re: Ricky Davis to Minnesota (Official)*

Well, life goes on...I'm just going to go mourn a little longer though...

one last time....**** YOU DANNY!


----------



## sheefo13

*Re: Ricky Davis to Minnesota (Official)*

Ainge is a genious. He is trying to make history... Not for the Celtics of course... And not for the Wolves... But for the Lakers! This is his scheme to let Kobe score 100 points guys!!!!!! I figured it out.

Well it should be interesting when the wolves play boston here in minny on monday...


----------



## P-Dub34

*Re: Ricky Davis to Minnesota (Official)*



> Well it should be interesting when the wolves play boston here in minny on monday...


Man, I can't wait. Heading up Sunday, picking up a buddy of mine from the airport, getting wasted all day, and then the game on Monday.


----------



## T.Shock

*Re: Ricky Davis to Minnesota (Official)*

Bulls fan just trying to spread out to other boards. Somebody, aqua I believe, made the comment I think sums up why I dislike this deal for Boston so much. Stats can only tell you so much. A big reason why Wally got the open looks and points he did was because of guards dropping down from the wing to double KG in the post. 20 points is great when you get a lot of open shots every game. Pierce is a wing player. If I'm game planning the Cs on defense. I play man up on Pierce and force him into my help in the middle and stick a guy on Wally. 

If Ainge thinks Wally is going to see open looks at all in Boston he's wrong. Pierce and Davis were a decent fit because Pierce has such a diverse offensive game that Ricky complemented well. Wally is a one-dimensional shooter for the most part that saw his looks playing next to an elite post player. Basically, you got a worse center for at least a decent one, traded a 26 year old budding star who plays average defense for a declining spot shooter who plays atrocious defense. 

If this means that Pierce is on the verge of being dealt, I'm all for the Bulls getting in on the sweepstakes and we can offer such a sweet package of draft picks and young players. Sorry guys, it happens. I'm harkening back to Artest and Brad Miller for Jalen Rose and Travis Best.


----------



## Damian Necronamous

*Re: Ricky Davis to Minnesota (Official)*

Damn, I just looked at Wally's stats and he is having one hell of a year.

20ppg, 5rpg and 3apg on 50%FG and 41% three-pointers.

Not a bad deal for either team, but common knowledge would suggest that the T-Wolves got the better deal.

What are the odds on Banks being back in a Celtics' uni tomorrow afternoon?


----------



## P-Dub34

*Re: Ricky Davis to Minnesota (Official)*

Go to NBA.com and listen to Frank Isola. He says something like "Clearly Szczerbiak is the best player in the deal." 

I would laugh.


----------



## BackwoodsBum

*Re: Ricky Davis to Minnesota (Official)*



P-Dub34 said:


> Go to NBA.com and listen to Frank Isola. He says something like "Clearly Szczerbiak is the best player in the deal."
> 
> I would laugh.


Wow! I like Wally (really!) but I need to get some of whatever this guys is smoking  Either that statement was drug induced (cmon we've all said stupid things when we are stoned!) or he really meant to say that Clearly Szczerbiak is the *second* best player in the deal


----------



## Mogriffjr

*Re: Ricky Davis to Minnesota (Official)*

Trading season has officially arrived with Thursday's seven-player, three-draft pick trade between the Boston Celtics and the Minnesota Timberwolves being the third swap in two days.

While there's going to be something very odd about seeing Ron Artest and Wally Szczerbiak matched up against each other in Kings-Celtics game Friday, this deal signifies that the much-anticipated post-Artest frenzy is underway.

Boston gave up four players, but the one that matters most is Ricky Davis. He gives Minnesota a tough two-way talent who won't match Szczerbiak's offense but will supply more defense -- even though his motivation at that end waxes and wanes unpredictably. Mark Blount also should help in the middle simply by being less horrible than the flotsam Minnesota has been using at center ever since Rasho Nesterovic left.

The other two, Marcus Banks and Justin Reed, are intriguing young players, but both are free agents after the season. Banks never won the confidence of the Celtics' brass because of his poor decisions at the point, but is superb at pressuring the ball upcourt and could find minutes off the bench. Reed showed promise a year ago but has been horrendous in 2005-06 and probably won't play much for Minnesota.

Boston probably won't have much use for Michael Olowokandi, a free-agent to be, unless Celtics coach Doc Rivers sees a situation where three fouls and two turnovers in a two-minute span would be helpful. Dwayne Jones is an undrafted rookie and an unknown quantity.

Thus, the pressure is on Szczerbiak to justify the trade. His ability to light it up from long range should spread the floor, and he's been a more active defender this year than in past seasons. That said, it's tough to see either him or Paul Pierce defending the likes of Dwyane Wade or Richard Hamilton night in and night out, and one has to wonder if the oft-rumored Pierce trade is the next step for the Celtics.

The trade also involves three draft picks, the most important of which is a first-rounder that Boston gets from Minnesota. While the protection on the pick has yet to be reported, one would presume it's lottery protected unless Minnesota's Kevin McHale has made an Isiah Thomas-type goof. Boston also included two conditional second-round picks that go back to Minnesota.

Minnesota wanted to rid itself of Szczerbiak's big contract, and the Celtics have been desperate to get rid of Blount's contract, which runs through 2009-10. But, given the tradeoffs involved, this deal, oddly enough, has relatively small cap implications.

As a result, I have to score the trade slightly in favor of Minnesota. They couldn't possibly have sold higher on Szczerbiak, who was hurt the past two seasons and is having a career year, and acquiring Blount raises their center position from "totally incompetent" to merely "below average." Meanwhile, I'm not sure how Boston can make this trade work defensively unless they have another deal already lined up.


----------



## P-Dub34

*Re: Ricky Davis to Minnesota (Official)*

You gonna credit whoever wrote that? Because after this comment,



> He gives Minnesota a tough two-way talent who won't match Szczerbiak's offense


I certainly wouldn't want it to be known as my own work.


----------



## Mogriffjr

*Re: Ricky Davis to Minnesota (Official)*

haha that was from ESPN...my bad lol...


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Official: Celitcs/T'Wolves trade*



Delontes Herpes said:


> espn and foxsports report that the celtics aren't getting a first rounder.
> 
> is ainge trying to put together a team that allows 120 points a game?


No. Danny is trying to prove that he's better than Bird. See, Larry went out and traded for the NBA's marquee choke artist, but Danny's super-scouting abilities allowed him to ID Szczerbiak as an even bigger choke artist than Peja. Once you factor in the salaries of the two players it's clear that Danny found the bigger playoff choke artist. For all those of you wondering why Garnett couldn't "lead" the Timberwolves out of the first round until they acquired ET & Spree, may I present you with Minnesota's second option.

*Wally Szczerbiak*

Playoffs
29 games
31.7 m/g
12.7 p/g
9.8 FGA/g
3.9 FTA/g
4 r/g
1.8 a/g
2.2 to/g
.447 FG%
.474 aFG%
1.1 PP/FGA
.877 FT%
.188 asst%

In fairness, in his two tries Ricky Davis hasn't exactly been a world-beater. Then again, his playoff chokery comes with better defense and at about 60% of Wallyworld's money.


----------



## DANNY

*Re: Official: Celitcs/T'Wolves trade*



ehmunro said:


> No. Danny is trying to prove that he's better than Bird. See, Larry went out and traded for the NBA's marquee choke artist, but Danny's super-scouting abilities allowed him to ID Szczerbiak as an even bigger choke artist than Peja. Once you factor in the salaries of the two players it's clear that Danny found the bigger playoff choke artist. For all those of you wondering why Garnett couldn't "lead" the Timberwolves out of the first round until they acquired ET & Spree, may I present you with Minnesota's second option.
> 
> *Wally Szczerbiak*
> 
> Playoffs
> 29 games
> 31.7 m/g
> 12.7 p/g
> 9.8 FGA/g
> 3.9 FTA/g
> 4 r/g
> 1.8 a/g
> 2.2 to/g
> .447 FG%
> .474 aFG%
> 1.1 PP/FGA
> .877 FT%
> .188 asst%
> 
> In fairness, in his two tries Ricky Davis hasn't exactly been a world-beater. Then again, his playoff chokery comes with better defense and at about 60% of Wallyworld's money.


hey no worries man 

i guarentee you that the celtics wont make the playoff this year.. and maybe next year.. and maybe the entire length of wally's contract 

thus there should be no problem with this so called "chokery" you have mentioned.


----------



## PaCeRhOLiC

*Re: Ricky Davis to Minnesota (Official)*

Truly my condolances go out to you guys...

Why Paul would want to stay now is beyond me, which is really a shame, because I can't envision him sporting another jersey...

Bad year to be a fan for all of us...  ...




*Go PaCeRs!!!!*


----------



## Causeway

*Re: Ricky Davis to Minnesota (Official)*

people are getting a little carried away with the negativity on this. On first reaction I don't love it either. But we were loaded with slashing wings. So the way I see it is we traded Blounts contract and Blount for Wally. It's almost as if we gave Ricky(Wally) Blounts contract and told Blount to hit the road. Now we have our slashers in Pierce and Allen and a pure shooter in Wally. Wally gets Blounts money (give or take). Not great but better him than Blount. Kandi is done.

The picks are unclear.

We'll see what happens. Might not be the end of the world as we know it.


----------



## beantown

*Re: Ricky Davis to Minnesota (Official)*

:sup:
RICKY DAVIS=ASSET. THIS WAS CLEAR TO ME WHEN DAINGE PICKED HIM UP. I AM SHOCKED THAT PEOPLE THOUGHT THE CELTICS WOULD BE ABLE TO DEVELOP A CHAMPIONSHIP TEAM WITHOUT THE MOVEMENT OF VALUABLE/REPLACABLE PEICES LIKE RICKY DAVIS AND WALLY SCZCERBIAK.

It is very surprising to see people shocked and affected in their C's fandom by this deal. Did you think Ainge was depending on Ricky for a Celtics championship?

If Kendrick and Al's recent play had you feeling more optimistic that Danny’s wandering vision might, even inadvertently, land banner number #17 for Boston(and you’re not one of Ricky's "dawg pound" or whatever)--you should be sane and resilient enough to stay the course until this has played itself out on the court.

Essentially, this deal is Ricky for Wally. Both guys have only just begun growing into the potential they ate off coming into the league. Both guys are on the court for their offense, so I don't really think defensive considerations are too important. Whether Ricky is a catalyst or a liability on D really has depended on the game, date, weather, position of planets, cornrow tightness etc.

Sczcerbiak can't play D? I know. So does Rivers. Defensive ****** can be patched and accounted for, but only if you identify them as ****** first. I love Ricky Davis. I'm not saying he doesn't care about defense. I think he's a competitor and a good teammate; I also admire his obvious love affair with the game. What I am saying is that he may not understand/appreciate that playing defense in game situations demands the discipline to put your hands up rather than gamble when Gilbert Arenas is driving at you to decide a game with possible playoff implications. Ricky undoubtedly blows Wally out of the water in terms of what he is talented enough to contribute on D, but with Doc Rivers matching up Davis against other teams best offensive players I think Ricky's sporadic defensive results put him in a position to be what no liability should--unnecessary & fatal.

Offensively, both have shown they can contribute 20ppg to the offense. As far as the manner in which they arrive @ 20, their probably could not be two more divergent paths. I DO hate that Danny is always picking up these freaking Hoosiers (Jiri Welsch, Raef Lafrentz, Sczcerbiak) who, despite being very skilled shooters, are very costly in terms of money and/or personnel. However, A-list scrub Welsch and 3-shooting big man Lafrentz are different than Sczcerbiak b/c: A) Sczcerbiak sure doesn’t look like a scrub B) Sczcerbiak plays a position where being a pure-shooter doesn't label you with the euphemism "specialist"(one dimensional OR situationally desirable/undesirable).

Danny is right, as if we didn't all know we were log-jammed on the wing. They are all "slashes," like Ricky. Maybe one of them (Gerald Green, Tony Allen) will develop into a championship ingredient. Maybe in addition to their raw skills, one will display the discipline and mental fortitude needed on a championship caliber team. Maybe Ricky Davis will. I believe that developing such discipline is compulsory if a talented bunch is to be a cohesive team. I’m saying that while Ricky was clearly growing, learning, greatly improving--I'm not at all convinced that he's turned the corner developing the mental discipline not to go for the steal just because his hands are quicker than most. I do love Ricky, but it seems silly to think of him as a main ingredient needed for #17.

Wally...is different. Was that seriously the best thing Ainge could come up with? Honestly, his name alone makes it hard to take him seriously. If I had to choose Ricky/Wally, and I had no players with skill sets like either--I’d choose Ricky. He's just so talented and athletic, and he too can shoot the ball. With that said trashing Wally because he’s not athletically gifted and can't "make his own shot" is only relevant when you're comparing him to Ricky (slashing swingman). I would respond, you're right, that’s why we don't intend on trying to use him as if he were Ricky. He is different.

If hell froze over, Ainge made this his last trade, and the Celtics won with this roster in say 2009, I think we can agree that Wally would not be the team's number one scoring option. But neither would Ricky. It would be Green, Jefferson, Perkins, even a wily old Paul Pierce; "Pierce v.2006" VS "Pierce v.2004" is a striking example of the impact maturity, discipline, and sacrifice can have on a team's cohesion and identity. I can see each of these players becoming more than the part that their skill set dictates they be, either because they are too young to have done anything but blind with potential or else because they have displayed something not measured at the combine--the discipline to make their game more than just the sum of their physical tools.

The Celtics are a team with little-to-no identity. If there is an advantage to this, it is that we can be bold in engineering a team. We are afforded the ability to take the risks needed to be the best; we need not be overly concerned about any one risk being our last so long as we retain high standards and flexibility in our pursuit of identity and personnel, respectively. The four players we gave up all might end up part of a championship recipe, but clearly no one in the Celtics organization was going to make them a main ingredient.

While I don't really want Wally Sczcerbiak for 10, 11, 12, and 13 over four years, I am confident, as I was of Ricky, that he is a valuable part. However calculated, Ricky Davis for Wally Sczcerbiak is a risk. Losing the other three players I feel much less tentative about, yet in doing so we will allow ourselves the flexibility to experiment more in the future. More important than what we discarded is what we chose to keep. I see what Danny is doing. He's not crazy; he just has a high standard.

Ricky was always going to be gone because he was not ultimately a needed ingredient. Neither is Sczcerbiak, even if Ainge wants him. He will be gone too if it increases Ainge’s freedom to acquire or make room/minutes for players (2 or 3) who can offer Boston a championship-caliber part, but more importantly, the identity for a Boston Celtics championship caliber team. Trading Ricky has always been a probable scenario. Ricky Davis is an electrifying and invigorating ingredient, but no more. I remain cautiously optimistic, faithful that Al Jefferson, unless something goes terribly wrong, Mark's the beginning of the end for alter-ego "Dealin' Danny." 

It's naive to take Danny’ for an idiot and superficial to presume this trade was about acquiring Wally Sczcerbiak. Don't insult Danny Ainge, and don't forget that this is the greatest sports franchise in the history of all history! Trying to enjoy banner #17 won't be easy if "Deliverance Danny" is rubbing it in your face. 


The tone I perceive in Boston Celtic’s fans’ criticisms of the Sczcerbiak acquisition remind me of the fan sentiment directly following Ainge’s plucking of Ricky “who’d you expect?” Davis from Cleveland? It's like rrraaaaiiiaaiiiinnnn, on your wedding day! Irony. Ha! Go C's!!!


----------



## #1AntoineWalkerFan

*Re: Ricky Davis to Minnesota (Official)*

u know what im gonna miss most???..



RICKY...FOR THE GAME...HE KNOCKS IT DOWN!!!!


----------



## CanteriWalker

*Re: Ricky Davis to Minnesota (Official)*

Boston Wins By 1!!!!!!!


----------



## PatBateman

*Re: Ricky Davis to Minnesota (Official)*



beantown said:


> :sup:
> RICKY DAVIS=ASSET. THIS WAS CLEAR TO ME WHEN DAINGE PICKED HIM UP. I AM SHOCKED THAT PEOPLE THOUGHT THE CELTICS WOULD BE ABLE TO DEVELOP A CHAMPIONSHIP TEAM WITHOUT THE MOVEMENT OF VALUABLE/REPLACABLE PEICES LIKE RICKY DAVIS AND WALLY SCZCERBIAK.
> 
> It is very surprising to see people shocked and affected in their C's fandom by this deal. Did you think Ainge was depending on Ricky for a Celtics championship?
> 
> If Kendrick and Al's recent play had you feeling more optimistic that Danny’s wandering vision might, even inadvertently, land banner number #17 for Boston(and you’re not one of Ricky's "dawg pound" or whatever)--you should be sane and resilient enough to stay the course until this has played itself out on the court.
> 
> Essentially, this deal is Ricky for Wally. Both guys have only just begun growing into the potential they ate off coming into the league. Both guys are on the court for their offense, so I don't really think defensive considerations are too important. Whether Ricky is a catalyst or a liability on D really has depended on the game, date, weather, position of planets, cornrow tightness etc.
> 
> Sczcerbiak can't play D? I know. So does Rivers. Defensive ****** can be patched and accounted for, but only if you identify them as ****** first. I love Ricky Davis. I'm not saying he doesn't care about defense. I think he's a competitor and a good teammate; I also admire his obvious love affair with the game. What I am saying is that he may not understand/appreciate that playing defense in game situations demands the discipline to put your hands up rather than gamble when Gilbert Arenas is driving at you to decide a game with possible playoff implications. Ricky undoubtedly blows Wally out of the water in terms of what he is talented enough to contribute on D, but with Doc Rivers matching up Davis against other teams best offensive players I think Ricky's sporadic defensive results put him in a position to be what no liability should--unnecessary & fatal.
> 
> Offensively, both have shown they can contribute 20ppg to the offense. As far as the manner in which they arrive @ 20, their probably could not be two more divergent paths. I DO hate that Danny is always picking up these freaking Hoosiers (Jiri Welsch, Raef Lafrentz, Sczcerbiak) who, despite being very skilled shooters, are very costly in terms of money and/or personnel. However, A-list scrub Welsch and 3-shooting big man Lafrentz are different than Sczcerbiak b/c: A) Sczcerbiak sure doesn’t look like a scrub B) Sczcerbiak plays a position where being a pure-shooter doesn't label you with the euphemism "specialist"(one dimensional OR situationally desirable/undesirable).
> 
> Danny is right, as if we didn't all know we were log-jammed on the wing. They are all "slashes," like Ricky. Maybe one of them (Gerald Green, Tony Allen) will develop into a championship ingredient. Maybe in addition to their raw skills, one will display the discipline and mental fortitude needed on a championship caliber team. Maybe Ricky Davis will. I believe that developing such discipline is compulsory if a talented bunch is to be a cohesive team. I’m saying that while Ricky was clearly growing, learning, greatly improving--I'm not at all convinced that he's turned the corner developing the mental discipline not to go for the steal just because his hands are quicker than most. I do love Ricky, but it seems silly to think of him as a main ingredient needed for #17.
> 
> Wally...is different. Was that seriously the best thing Ainge could come up with? Honestly, his name alone makes it hard to take him seriously. If I had to choose Ricky/Wally, and I had no players with skill sets like either--I’d choose Ricky. He's just so talented and athletic, and he too can shoot the ball. With that said trashing Wally because he’s not athletically gifted and can't "make his own shot" is only relevant when you're comparing him to Ricky (slashing swingman). I would respond, you're right, that’s why we don't intend on trying to use him as if he were Ricky. He is different.
> 
> If hell froze over, Ainge made this his last trade, and the Celtics won with this roster in say 2009, I think we can agree that Wally would not be the team's number one scoring option. But neither would Ricky. It would be Green, Jefferson, Perkins, even a wily old Paul Pierce; "Pierce v.2006" VS "Pierce v.2004" is a striking example of the impact maturity, discipline, and sacrifice can have on a team's cohesion and identity. I can see each of these players becoming more than the part that their skill set dictates they be, either because they are too young to have done anything but blind with potential or else because they have displayed something not measured at the combine--the discipline to make their game more than just the sum of their physical tools.
> 
> The Celtics are a team with little-to-no identity. If there is an advantage to this, it is that we can be bold in engineering a team. We are afforded the ability to take the risks needed to be the best; we need not be overly concerned about any one risk being our last so long as we retain high standards and flexibility in our pursuit of identity and personnel, respectively. The four players we gave up all might end up part of a championship recipe, but clearly no one in the Celtics organization was going to make them a main ingredient.
> 
> While I don't really want Wally Sczcerbiak for 10, 11, 12, and 13 over four years, I am confident, as I was of Ricky, that he is a valuable part. However calculated, Ricky Davis for Wally Sczcerbiak is a risk. Losing the other three players I feel much less tentative about, yet in doing so we will allow ourselves the flexibility to experiment more in the future. More important than what we discarded is what we chose to keep. I see what Danny is doing. He's not crazy; he just has a high standard.
> 
> Ricky was always going to be gone because he was not ultimately a needed ingredient. Neither is Sczcerbiak, even if Ainge wants him. He will be gone too if it increases Ainge’s freedom to acquire or make room/minutes for players (2 or 3) who can offer Boston a championship-caliber part, but more importantly, the identity for a Boston Celtics championship caliber team. Trading Ricky has always been a probable scenario. Ricky Davis is an electrifying and invigorating ingredient, but no more. I remain cautiously optimistic, faithful that Al Jefferson, unless something goes terribly wrong, Mark's the beginning of the end for alter-ego "Dealin' Danny."
> 
> It's naive to take Danny’ for an idiot and superficial to presume this trade was about acquiring Wally Sczcerbiak. Don't insult Danny Ainge, and don't forget that this is the greatest sports franchise in the history of all history! Trying to enjoy banner #17 won't be easy if "Deliverance Danny" is rubbing it in your face.
> 
> 
> The tone I perceive in Boston Celtic’s fans’ criticisms of the Sczcerbiak acquisition remind me of the fan sentiment directly following Ainge’s plucking of Ricky “who’d you expect?” Davis from Cleveland? It's like rrraaaaiiiaaiiiinnnn, on your wedding day! Irony. Ha! Go C's!!!


What the F has Danny done but ruin the team???

Let's see, he signed Albatross contracts to stiffs like Lafrentz, Scalabrine, and Blount and now had to trade off one of them. He signed Dickau to more money than he's worth. Some of his picks are ok, but most have been no brainers (Gerald Green/Al Jeff).


Danny Ainge, Chris Wallace, and Rick Pitino have all literall guaranteed that the Celtics wont win another banner for at least 15 years or so.

But enjoy your delusional state of mind Beantown.


----------



## lolac101

*Re: Ricky Davis to Minnesota (Official)*

Wally is here to ensure the Perk and Jefferson post tandum is successful. Let's keep our fingers crossed.


----------



## CrackerJack

*Re: Ricky Davis to Minnesota (Official)*

i didnt realize marcus banks was in the deal


----------



## CanteriWalker

*Re: Ricky Davis to Minnesota (Official)*

But Wally will not likely play for tonight's game right?OMG...we're shorthanded...this sucks


----------



## lolac101

*Re: Ricky Davis to Minnesota (Official)*

We get to see Tony Allen and Ryan Gomes play.


----------



## P-Dub34

*Re: Ricky Davis to Minnesota (Official)*

Canteri rockin' the Wally avi...you rock!


----------



## pokpok

*Re: Ricky Davis to Minnesota (Official)*



beantown said:


> QUOTE]
> 
> i dont think danny is gonna win a 17 for us...


----------



## pokpok

*Re: Ricky Davis to Minnesota (Official)*



PatBateman said:


> What the F has Danny done but ruin the team???
> 
> Let's see, he signed Albatross contracts to stiffs like Lafrentz, Scalabrine, and Blount and now had to trade off one of them. He signed Dickau  to more money than he's worth. Some of his picks are ok, but most have been no brainers (Gerald Green/Al Jeff).
> 
> 
> Danny Ainge, Chris Wallace, and Rick Pitino have all literall guaranteed that the Celtics wont win another banner for at least 15 years or so.
> 
> But enjoy your delusional state of mind Beantown.


omg... i forgot about that DAN DICKAU!!! another white player.. :biggrin: 


im gonna miss ricky... ive been a fan of ricky since he was playing for the hornets... he was gangsta.

if ainge developed gerald green faster, i think we coulda traded green instead of ricky in this deal if we played green


----------



## pokpok

*Re: Ricky Davis to Minnesota (Official)*



lolac101 said:


> We get to see Tony Allen and Ryan Gomes play.


what happened to gomes?? is he injured?

ryan gomes can play!


----------



## Aznboi812

*Re: Ricky Davis to Minnesota (Official)*

there goes our best dunker as well as the point guard who block the shot of steve hunter


----------



## cgcatsfan

*Re: Ricky Davis to Minnesota (Official)*

I might die from the Aingina this time. 

Blount and Banks we had good reason to trade, 
Blount for the lack of production and Banks because we weren't picking up his option. 
Reed's young, and will get over it, but I'm sick about losing Ricky. :brokenhea 
Aqua's right. 
You're in a better place Ricky and sorry for wasting your time. 

Kevin McHale must be laughing his *** off right now.


----------



## pokpok

*Re: Ricky Davis to Minnesota (Official)*



cgcatsfan said:


> I might die from the Aingina this time.
> 
> Blount and Banks we had good reason to trade,
> Blount for the lack of production and Banks because we weren't picking up his option.
> Reed's young, and will get over it, but I'm sick about losing Ricky. :brokenhea
> Aqua's right.
> You're in a better place Ricky and sorry for wasting your time.
> 
> Kevin McHale must be laughing his *** off right now.


i really hope pierce demands trade now to show what danny ainge has done to the team.. i really cant blame pierce if he wants to leave right now...


i bet ainge would make a trade like.. Pierce for Joe Johnson and T Lue.


----------



## pokpok

*Re: Ricky Davis to Minnesota (Official)*

u know who benefits the most in this trade?? 

all the females in boston... i bet a ton of girls will go see the celtics because we have the pretty boy wally szczerbiak... :no: :no:


----------



## beantown

*Re: Ricky Davis to Minnesota (Official)*



PatBateman said:


> What the F has Danny done but ruin the team???
> 
> Let's see, he signed Albatross contracts to stiffs like Lafrentz, Scalabrine, and Blount and now had to trade off one of them. He signed Dickau to more money than he's worth. Some of his picks are ok, but most have been no brainers (Gerald Green/Al Jeff).
> 
> 
> Danny Ainge, Chris Wallace, and Rick Pitino have all literall guaranteed that the Celtics wont win another banner for at least 15 years or so.
> 
> But enjoy your delusional state of mind Beantown.




Ainge, Wallace, and Pitino aren't a three headed monster. You'd have to admit it would actually be pretty impressive if Danny got a Celtics GM to let him make the C's personell decision considering Danny was coaching The Phoenix Suns(NBA squad, no affiliation w/ Celtics). Anyways, I don't think Ainge was allowed to make personel decisions for the C's at least until he wasnt in direct comp. and probably not till the Celtics hired him as GM. In fact, I think since Ainge had seats to the 80's Celtics and also got some seats with the GM gig, he's probably even more dissapointed than you about the team's going from best team in the league to crappiest during the interim. M .L. Carr? 

So I guess rather than pretending like Ainge inherited the Celtic Dynasty all-star team and started kicking HOFers tp the curb it would be more prudent/_less retarded_ to judge Danny Ainge on what Danny Ainge has done with the team and *not *people other than Danny Ainge. _ Follow Pat? 
_So what you can do if you're contending that Ainge "ruined" the Celtics, is you go look up the roster that he inherited, and then make a list of players he has subtracted from that team and players that he has added. 

The team Ainge got with the Celtics GM job would have been pretty hard to ruin, despite vaunted players such as Grant Lonf, Bruno Sundov, & Ruben Wolkowvski. Danny Ainge HAS made some bad financial calls, which I criticized him for in my post_. I'm confused as to why you'd make your one legitimate point of protest against Ainge a regurgitation of what I had said about his occasional financial blunder. This is especially puzzling bc/ you elected to refer to the whole of what I said as delusional. _I can't imagine you did this on purpose bc/ youre smarter than that.



PatBateman said:


> Danny Ainge, Chris Wallace, and Rick Pitino have all literall guaranteed that the Celtics wont win another banner for at least 15 years or so.



OK, nevermind. I "literally guarantee" you don't contribute anything to a conversation for 15 years, including those consisting solely of you thinking aloud to yourself. If your going to respond to something I wrote, you shouldn't normally reiterate a point of mine. Also, please do not insult me or use "literal gaurantees," that require your using a timetraveling device when its hard to imagine you safely :clapperating a toaster.


----------



## lempbizkit

*Re: Ricky Davis to Minnesota (Official)*

I understand why Blount was traded, to get rid of the contract, but this would have been better if it was just the straight up deal they were talking about, even banks/blount for olowakandi, to take on another big contract witht the position this team is in right now doesn't make alot of sense.


----------



## UVM Hoop Cat

*Re: Ricky Davis to Minnesota (Official)*

Danny Ainge further prooves he has no clue on a long-term strategy for the Celtics.

The Celtics just took a step forward to take about 5 steps back.

What a joke he is making this franchise...poor Auerbach.

Danny, why don't you get busy searching for the next Scalabrine?

Loser.


----------



## tdk1984

*Re: Ricky Davis to Minnesota (Official)*

He needs to take a hike. Szczerbiak is good- when he's healthy (not often enough IMO). The cap space he gets from acquiring Kandi, he won't spend correctly.


----------



## pokpok

*Re: Ricky Davis to Minnesota (Official)*



UVM Hoop Cat said:


> Danny Ainge further prooves he has no clue on a long-term strategy for the Celtics.
> 
> The Celtics just took a step forward to take about 5 steps back.
> 
> What a joke he is making this franchise...poor Auerbach.
> 
> Danny, why don't you get busy searching for the next Scalabrine?
> 
> Loser.


paul pierce for matt bonner and aruajo!


----------



## klemen4

*Why the Bos:Min trade is a good trade for Celtics!*

*My analysis:

It looks like a good trade for Celtics, Why:*

*PLUSES*

*1)	Lost three players BOS didnt have in long term future plans:*

-	Blount (everybody wanted him and his salary out)
-	Banks (would go in the summer)
-	Reed (no roster spot, questionable quality ,would go in the summer)

*
2)	Got one player with expiring contract*

-	Olowokandis $5,949,570 are gone or BOS can make a sign and trade in the summer


*3)	Got a 1. round draft pick in 08, which looks like a good draft and one young pf/c* 

-	It looks like 1. round pick will be around 15-20 (can draft good bench player or young prospect)
-	Maybe 6-11 Jones can develop to be a good defensive pf/c for small salary to back up Perk and Al.


*4)	Got % looking wise one of the best shooters in NBA in Wally*

-	He is playing the best ball in his carer 50% FG, 40% 3pointers, 90% FT

*
MINUSES*
*
1)	Lost Ricky Davis, BUT…*

…Ricky is better than Wally only in a few categories:

-	more athletic&faster
-	defensively stronger
-	better passer
-	has more steals
-	2. years younger

Wally is better in:
-	% FG
-	% 3 pointers
-	% FT
-	less turnovers
-	takes fewer shots
-	can post up
-	more consistent
-	stronger
-	smarter, professional, good work ethics, rational

*2)	Wally salary, BUT…*

-	Blount&Davis salary:

06/07 12.488,00 $
07/08 13.555,00 $
08/09 18.000,00 $ (7.350,00 Blount + Ricks new contract in range 10-12 mio)
09/10 19.000,00 $ (7.962,50 Blount + Ricks new contract in range 10-12 mio)

-	Wallys salary:

06/07 11.000,00 $ + Jones 664,209 $
07/08 12.000,00 $
08/09 13.000,00 $ + 1. round rookie contract (1-1,5 mio)
09/10 X + 1. round rookie contract (1-1,5 mio)

-	Wally is tradable. If it will somehow not work in boston there are teams in the nba which would be willing to trade for Wally.

*
So to conclude I really think this is a good trade for the Celtics!!!*


----------



## jokeaward

*Re: Ricky Davis to Minnesota (Official)*

The folks at the Star Tribune forums _haaaate_ this trade. Just so you know.

One guy said Mchale was "once a Celtic, always a Celtic." There have been numerous calls for his job, although not strictly starting yesterday.


----------



## beantown

*Re: Ricky Davis to Minnesota (Official)*

OK, listen. The first thing I thought when I saw the trade was,"this is very bad, danny ainge is crazy," but...Danny always comes out on top in trades. Is there ANYONE that can say this list(I believe its complete, if not pray tell)is not evidence that Ainge is a hustler? Not once have I been unambigously in support of one of his deals, yet the list cannot be denied. Hes not good with pass-go money, case in point his decision to use the Payton(?) MLE on what appears to be an agenda of *wince* "Celthnic Cleansing" He is, dare I say it, belicheki/piolian in the draft. As far as trades are concerned, if all NBA teams make trades, it stands to reason that although some trades occasionally benefit both teams, one team is still benefitted moreso, and hence, relatively, half the teams get better while half get worse. Would ANYONE not make the net-trade C's GM Ainge has pulled? Discuss...

DANNY AINGE *
Aquired:
*
2006? 1st Round Pick Minn.
 Tony Allen
 Ryam Gomes
 Gerald Green
 Orienne Greene
 Al Jefferson
 Raef LaFrentz
 Dan Dickau
 Kendrick Perkins
 Justin Reed
 Delonte West
 Wally Szerbiak
 Michael Olowakandi
 Dwayne Jones
 Brian Scalabrine
 Dan Dickau
 *Traded:
*
06/07? 2nd Round Pick Bean.
Tony Delk
Eric Williams
JR Bremer
Tony Battie
Walter McCarty
Vin Baker
Bimbo Coles
Kedrick Brown
Grant Long
Bruno Sundov
Ruben Wolkowvski
Mark Bryant
Mark Blount
Ricky Davis
Marcus Banks
Justin Reed
:djparty:


----------



## pokpok

*Re: Why the Bos:Min trade is a good trade for Celtics!*

i still want a trade back for ricky!!!!


----------



## Foulzilla

*Re: Ricky Davis to Minnesota (Official)*

I don't have much to add to this, you guys have pretty much said it all. However, on the bright side I do believe many of you are underrating Szczerbiak. He's really not much of a downgrade from Davis (if you can ignore his contract size). He is a good player.


----------



## pokpok

*Re: Ricky Davis to Minnesota (Official)*



Foulzilla said:


> I don't have much to add to this, you guys have pretty much said it all. However, on the bright side I do believe many of you are underrating Szczerbiak. He's really not much of a downgrade from Davis (if you can ignore his contract size). He is a good player.


he cant finish like ricky.


----------



## beantown

*Re: Why the Bos:Min trade is a good trade for Celtics!*

The trade has its plus' and minus'--I feel there have been a lot of knee-jerk reactions bc/ everybody has loved Ricky since he came here and made us look good by being commited enough to Boston to serious change his M.O. and restore his Cred. People LOVE ricky in BOSTON, pretty nearly without exception. So you see Ainge traded him for a white guy.....geezuz Danny, lick my left one is a perfectly understandable feeling to have. Everyone thought we'd get rid of Blount for Kandi after that roomer floatin around, and that was supported. Then it didnt go through, and we just went, eh, we love hating Blount Anyway. I think the originator of this post pointed out a crucial dynamic of what we just did....attached one of our two real bad contracts(and raef) to a player who is desirable. If we wanted to fully realize the potential of this trade wed trade wally/raef/pierc and get some SERIOUS $/flexibility not to mention were not tradingthose threewithout getting younger talent back. For example, and who knows if this works, but I'd work out a deal where we'd only get Chris Paul+ back in a three team deal in which we give up those three, then we go to the draft with paul/west/perk/jeff and all the maneuverability we could imagine......no?


----------



## PatBateman

*Re: Ricky Davis to Minnesota (Official)*



beantown said:


> Ainge, Wallace, and Pitino aren't a three headed monster. You'd have to admit it would actually be pretty impressive if Danny got a Celtics GM to let him make the C's personell decision considering Danny was coaching The Phoenix Suns(NBA squad, no affiliation w/ Celtics). Anyways, I don't think Ainge was allowed to make personel decisions for the C's at least until he wasnt in direct comp. and probably not till the Celtics hired him as GM. In fact, I think since Ainge had seats to the 80's Celtics and also got some seats with the GM gig, he's probably even more dissapointed than you about the team's going from best team in the league to crappiest during the interim. M .L. Carr?
> 
> So I guess rather than pretending like Ainge inherited the Celtic Dynasty all-star team and started kicking HOFers tp the curb it would be more prudent/_less retarded_ to judge Danny Ainge on what Danny Ainge has done with the team and *not *people other than Danny Ainge. _ Follow Pat?
> _So what you can do if you're contending that Ainge "ruined" the Celtics, is you go look up the roster that he inherited, and then make a list of players he has subtracted from that team and players that he has added.
> 
> The team Ainge got with the Celtics GM job would have been pretty hard to ruin, despite vaunted players such as Grant Lonf, Bruno Sundov, & Ruben Wolkowvski. Danny Ainge HAS made some bad financial calls, which I criticized him for in my post_. I'm confused as to why you'd make your one legitimate point of protest against Ainge a regurgitation of what I had said about his occasional financial blunder. This is especially puzzling bc/ you elected to refer to the whole of what I said as delusional. _I can't imagine you did this on purpose bc/ youre smarter than that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OK, nevermind. I "literally guarantee" you don't contribute anything to a conversation for 15 years, including those consisting solely of you thinking aloud to yourself. If your going to respond to something I wrote, you shouldn't normally reiterate a point of mine. Also, please do not insult me or use "literal gaurantees," that require your using a timetraveling device when its hard to imagine you safely :clapperating a toaster.


Beantown, you are the only one that thinks the trade was half decent and that Ainge isn't culpable as doing a poor job as GM. Pull your head out of your ***. Don't try to lecture me on how to write or think, I could run circles around you intellectually.


----------



## cgcatsfan

*Re: Ricky Davis to Minnesota (Official)*

Szerbiak's contract MIGHT, just might equal Ricky's and Blount's together. 
But Ricky scores more, plays better defense and was a big part of the heart and soul of this team this year. 
Kandi's gone at the end of this year, just like Banks would have been.
As for the kid in NBDL, he's supposed to be good, (sarcasm on) and thank god, because we didn't have nearly enough young and inexperienced players......(Sarcasm off, well, actually maybe not for while :nonono:


----------



## Causeway

*Re: Ricky Davis to Minnesota (Official)*



Aznboi812 said:


> there goes our best dunker as well as the point guard who block the shot of steve hunter


oh nooooooooooooooo! our best DUNKER!


----------



## Causeway

*Re: Ricky Davis to Minnesota (Official)*



PatBateman said:


> Beantown, you are the only one that thinks the trade was half decent and that Ainge isn't culpable as doing a poor job as GM. Pull your head out of your ***. Don't try to lecture me on how to write or think, I could run circles around you intellectually.


wrong. I am cool with this trade and with Ainge in general.

And check your spelling and grammar before you call people out on their smarts.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Ricky Davis to Minnesota (Official)*



Foulzilla said:


> I don't have much to add to this, you guys have pretty much said it all. However, on the bright side I do believe many of you are underrating Szczerbiak. He's really not much of a downgrade from Davis (if you can ignore his contract size). He is a good player.



No, we're not. At least I'm not. But the fact is that Davis did a lot of little things that Szczerbiak is incapable of doing. And these thankless tasks that Davis performed changed the way the rest of the team was able to play. This is why when you look at the +/- numbers for the Celtics you see that Boston gets beaten like a rented mule when he's not on the floor (opponent eFG% skyrockets and opponents' offensive efficiency reaches 1980s Celtics levels). For example, Davis was Boston's key transition defender. His speed and quickness getting back on defense was one reason that West is so reckless on offense. West regularly gambles and takes himself out of position defensively because Davis was there to cover. That's something that neither Pierce nor Szczerbiak can do. Now if West chases after offensive boards the Celtics are either going to have to send a much better rebounder (Pierce) backt to try and seal off the break, or simply resign themselves to other teams getting a lot of easy points. Davis was also the secondary ballhandler and primary quarterback on offense. West got breathing room taking the ball upcourt because to pressure West meant springing either Davis or Pierce. And part of what made West so efficient was that the offense initiated when he passed the ball off to Davis, allowing him to move to the weakside for open shots. Now Davis has been replaced by someone that's a terrible ballhandler, meaning that West will probably see more pressure defense. And West will no longer have the luxury of shooting from the weakside,

Davis has also been the sacrificial lamb on the defensive end this year. Rivers regularly stuck Davis on the opponents' best wing players to allow Pierce to conserve energy on defense. Szczerbiak is incapable of doing this, meaning that Pierce is going to have to expend loads of energy defending the Dwyane Wades and LeBron James of the NBA. This means that he won't have as much energy on the offensive end, and his overall performance there is likely to suffer. So, to replace Davis with someone "more efficient" they are (likely) sacrificing Pierce's efficiency in the bargain. Add in the fact that Szczerbiak makes twice what Davis does and it gets more troubling still. To top it all off Szczerbiak is the kind of guy that gets you to the playoffs, and then completely vanishes once you get there (spot shooters have zero excuses for making as many turnovers as Wally does in the postseason), which makes him the worst sort of player you can have on your roster.

I'm sure the SpEds love the trade, all they see is another caucasian player, and probably think that Wally's inability to handle the ball will lead to fewer turnovers. The problem is that a large number of those turnovers will still be made, and just dispersed to West and Pierce. At which point the SpEds will start crying for Pierce's head, too.


----------



## Causeway

*Re: Why the Bos:Min trade is a good trade for Celtics!*



klemen4 said:


> *My analysis:
> 
> It looks like a good trade for Celtics, Why:*
> 
> *PLUSES*
> 
> *1)	Lost three players BOS didnt have in long term future plans:*
> 
> -	Blount (everybody wanted him and his salary out)
> -	Banks (would go in the summer)
> -	Reed (no roster spot, questionable quality ,would go in the summer)
> 
> *
> 2)	Got one player with expiring contract*
> 
> -	Olowokandis $5,949,570 are gone or BOS can make a sign and trade in the summer
> 
> 
> *3)	Got a 1. round draft pick in 08, which looks like a good draft and one young pf/c*
> 
> -	It looks like 1. round pick will be around 15-20 (can draft good bench player or young prospect)
> -	Maybe 6-11 Jones can develop to be a good defensive pf/c for small salary to back up Perk and Al.
> 
> 
> *4)	Got % looking wise one of the best shooters in NBA in Wally*
> 
> -	He is playing the best ball in his carer 50% FG, 40% 3pointers, 90% FT
> 
> *
> MINUSES*
> *
> 1)	Lost Ricky Davis, BUT…*
> 
> …Ricky is better than Wally only in a few categories:
> 
> -	more athletic&faster
> -	defensively stronger
> -	better passer
> -	has more steals
> -	2. years younger
> 
> Wally is better in:
> -	% FG
> -	% 3 pointers
> -	% FT
> -	less turnovers
> -	takes fewer shots
> -	can post up
> -	more consistent
> -	stronger
> -	smarter, professional, good work ethics, rational
> 
> *2)	Wally salary, BUT…*
> 
> -	Blount&Davis salary:
> 
> 06/07 12.488,00 $
> 07/08 13.555,00 $
> 08/09 18.000,00 $ (7.350,00 Blount + Ricks new contract in range 10-12 mio)
> 09/10 19.000,00 $ (7.962,50 Blount + Ricks new contract in range 10-12 mio)
> 
> -	Wallys salary:
> 
> 06/07 11.000,00 $ + Jones 664,209 $
> 07/08 12.000,00 $
> 08/09 13.000,00 $ + 1. round rookie contract (1-1,5 mio)
> 09/10 X + 1. round rookie contract (1-1,5 mio)
> 
> -	Wally is tradable. If it will somehow not work in boston there are teams in the nba which would be willing to trade for Wally.
> 
> *
> So to conclude I really think this is a good trade for the Celtics!!!*


Great and well thought out post. Nice to see a rational look at the bright side. The knee jerk reaction is too look at Wally's salary but as you laid out there's more to this.

:clap:


----------



## KingHandles

*Re: Why the Bos:Min trade is a good trade for Celtics!*

Everything you said is true, and resonable, but I still hate this trade. I want Ricky back NOW!

I just want to see how Pierce reacts to this tonight...


----------



## P-Dub34

*Re: Ricky Davis to Minnesota (Official)*



> And check your *spelling* and _grammer_ before you call people out on their smarts.


Oh, the irony.

I agree with a lot of E.H.'s post, but let's give S a chance to make it work before we write him off totally.


----------



## KingHandles

*Re: Ricky Davis to Minnesota (Official)*

In the middle of all this...I really miss Brandon Hunter...


----------



## Causeway

*Re: Ricky Davis to Minnesota (Official)*



P-Dub34 said:


> Oh, the irony.


oops!


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Ricky Davis to Minnesota (Official)*



P-Dub34 said:


> I agree with a lot of E.H.'s post, but let's give S a chance to make it work before we write him off totally.


I'm not writing him off, but the fact is that Szczerbiak is incapable of doing the thankless tasks that Davis performed. He can hit jumpers. But his efficiency will cost the Celtics Pierce & West's efficiency, I can see the Celtics getting a whole lot worse defensively with Wallyworld on the floor, and given how badly they play defense with Davis on the bench...

Let's just say that it's troubling, at best.


----------



## Causeway

*Re: Ricky Davis to Minnesota (Official)*

The bottom line in my opinion is we weren't winning with these guys, so allow the young guys to play, add Wally and see what happens. Blount and Banks were malcontents and Blount especially was in the way, Davis did some things beind the scenes, and Reed just isn't that good. Plus Ainge's strenght is drafting so they could potentially get another good player with the pick...and they have an outside chance of the kid in the D league to be a decent bench player.


----------



## Floods

*Re: Ricky Davis to Minnesota (Official)*

will they be in uniform tonight?


----------



## beantown

*Re: Ricky Davis to Minnesota (Official)*



ehmunro said:


> No, we're not. At least I'm not. But the fact is that Davis did a lot of little things that Szczerbiak is incapable of doing. And these thankless tasks that Davis performed changed the way the rest of the team was able to play. This is why when you look at the +/- numbers for the Celtics you see that Boston gets beaten like a rented mule when he's not on the floor (opponent eFG% skyrockets and opponents' offensive efficiency reaches 1980s Celtics levels). For example, Davis was Boston's key transition defender. His speed and quickness getting back on defense was one reason that West is so reckless on offense. West regularly gambles and takes himself out of position defensively because Davis was there to cover. That's something that neither Pierce nor Szczerbiak can do. Now if West chases after offensive boards the Celtics are either going to have to send a much better rebounder (Pierce) backt to try and seal off the break, or simply resign themselves to other teams getting a lot of easy points. Davis was also the secondary ballhandler and primary quarterback on offense. West got breathing room taking the ball upcourt because to pressure West meant springing either Davis or Pierce. And part of what made West so efficient was that the offense initiated when he passed the ball off to Davis, allowing him to move to the weakside for open shots. Now Davis has been replaced by someone that's a terrible ballhandler, meaning that West will probably see more pressure defense. And West will no longer have the luxury of shooting from the weakside,
> 
> Davis has also been the sacrificial lamb on the defensive end this year. Rivers regularly stuck Davis on the opponents' best wing players to allow Pierce to conserve energy on defense. Szczerbiak is incapable of doing this, meaning that Pierce is going to have to expend loads of energy defending the Dwyane Wades and LeBron James of the NBA. This means that he won't have as much energy on the offensive end, and his overall performance there is likely to suffer. So, to replace Davis with someone "more efficient" they are (likely) sacrificing Pierce's efficiency in the bargain. Add in the fact that Szczerbiak makes twice what Davis does and it gets more troubling still. To top it all off Szczerbiak is the kind of guy that gets you to the playoffs, and then completely vanishes once you get there (spot shooters have zero excuses for making as many turnovers as Wally does in the postseason), which makes him the worst sort of player you can have on your roster.



I think that all of this is probably valid. The only problem is,IMO, Danny has us talking about the nuancesof a team which would be in the lottery were the season to end today. It's silly. I don't think Sczcerbiak is here to play with Pierce. The only reason he is desirable is because he is more attractive trade fodder than Blount. I think Danny is letting Doc develop the kids while Ainge puts the pieces in place for one great exodus of the veterans. Its not a bad plan if you don't mind being in the dark. I wouldn't be surprised if Pierce was in on it either, he's been a little too mature this year...he's really the only ally Ainge needs if he was creating a smokescreen,likewise, how much easier is it to be unselfish if you're already taken care of...




ehmunro said:


> I'm sure the *SpEds love the trade, all they see is another caucasian* player, and probably think that Wally's inability to handle the ball will lead to fewer turnovers. The problem is that a large number of those turnovers will still be made, and just dispersed to West and Pierce. At which point the *SpEds will start crying for Pierce's head*, too.


nothing special bout a murderous constituency of handicapped biggots? they must be stopped.:fball:


----------



## beantown

*Re: Ricky Davis to Minnesota (Official)*



ehmunro said:


> No, we're not. At least I'm not. But the fact is that Davis did a lot of little things that Szczerbiak is incapable of doing. And these thankless tasks that Davis performed changed the way the rest of the team was able to play. This is why when you look at the +/- numbers for the Celtics you see that Boston gets beaten like a rented mule when he's not on the floor (opponent eFG% skyrockets and opponents' offensive efficiency reaches 1980s Celtics levels). For example, Davis was Boston's key transition defender. His speed and quickness getting back on defense was one reason that West is so reckless on offense. West regularly gambles and takes himself out of position defensively because Davis was there to cover. That's something that neither Pierce nor Szczerbiak can do. Now if West chases after offensive boards the Celtics are either going to have to send a much better rebounder (Pierce) backt to try and seal off the break, or simply resign themselves to other teams getting a lot of easy points. Davis was also the secondary ballhandler and primary quarterback on offense. West got breathing room taking the ball upcourt because to pressure West meant springing either Davis or Pierce. And part of what made West so efficient was that the offense initiated when he passed the ball off to Davis, allowing him to move to the weakside for open shots. Now Davis has been replaced by someone that's a terrible ballhandler, meaning that West will probably see more pressure defense. And West will no longer have the luxury of shooting from the weakside,
> 
> Davis has also been the sacrificial lamb on the defensive end this year. Rivers regularly stuck Davis on the opponents' best wing players to allow Pierce to conserve energy on defense. Szczerbiak is incapable of doing this, meaning that Pierce is going to have to expend loads of energy defending the Dwyane Wades and LeBron James of the NBA. This means that he won't have as much energy on the offensive end, and his overall performance there is likely to suffer. So, to replace Davis with someone "more efficient" they are (likely) sacrificing Pierce's efficiency in the bargain. Add in the fact that Szczerbiak makes twice what Davis does and it gets more troubling still. To top it all off Szczerbiak is the kind of guy that gets you to the playoffs, and then completely vanishes once you get there (spot shooters have zero excuses for making as many turnovers as Wally does in the postseason), which makes him the worst sort of player you can have on your roster.



I think that all of this is probably valid. The only problem is,IMO, Danny has us talking about the nuancesof a team which would be in the lottery were the season to end today. It's silly. I don't think Sczcerbiak is here to play with Pierce. The only reason he is desirable is because he is more attractive trade fodder than Blount. I think Danny is letting Doc develop the kids while Ainge puts the pieces in place for one great exodus of the veterans. Its not a bad plan if you don't mind being in the dark. I wouldn't be surprised if Pierce was in on it either, he's been a little too mature this year...he's really the only ally Ainge needs if he was creating a smokescreen,likewise, how much easier is it to be unselfish if you're already taken care of...




ehmunro said:


> I'm sure the *SpEds love the trade, all they see is another caucasian* player, and probably think that Wally's inability to handle the ball will lead to fewer turnovers. The problem is that a large number of those turnovers will still be made, and just dispersed to West and Pierce. At which point the *SpEds will start crying for Pierce's head*, too.


nothing special bout a murderous constituency of handicapped biggots?supporteducation reform... :fball:


----------



## Floods

*Re: Why the Bos:Min trade is a good trade for Celtics!*



klemen4 said:


> *My analysis:
> 
> It looks like a good trade for Celtics, Why:*
> 
> *PLUSES*
> 
> *1)	Lost three players BOS didnt have in long term future plans:*
> 
> -	Blount (everybody wanted him and his salary out)
> -	Banks (would go in the summer)
> -	Reed (no roster spot, questionable quality ,would go in the summer)
> 
> *
> 2)	Got one player with expiring contract*
> 
> -	Olowokandis $5,949,570 are gone or BOS can make a sign and trade in the summer
> 
> 
> *3)	Got a 1. round draft pick in 08, which looks like a good draft and one young pf/c*
> 
> -	It looks like 1. round pick will be around 15-20 (can draft good bench player or young prospect)
> -	Maybe 6-11 Jones can develop to be a good defensive pf/c for small salary to back up Perk and Al.
> 
> 
> *4)	Got % looking wise one of the best shooters in NBA in Wally*
> 
> -	He is playing the best ball in his carer 50% FG, 40% 3pointers, 90% FT
> 
> *
> MINUSES*
> *
> 1)	Lost Ricky Davis, BUT…*
> 
> …Ricky is better than Wally only in a few categories:
> 
> -	more athletic&faster
> -	defensively stronger
> -	better passer
> -	has more steals
> -	2. years younger
> 
> Wally is better in:
> -	% FG
> -	% 3 pointers
> -	% FT
> -	less turnovers
> -	takes fewer shots
> -	can post up
> -	more consistent
> -	stronger
> -	smarter, professional, good work ethics, rational
> 
> *2)	Wally salary, BUT…*
> 
> -	Blount&Davis salary:
> 
> 06/07 12.488,00 $
> 07/08 13.555,00 $
> 08/09 18.000,00 $ (7.350,00 Blount + Ricks new contract in range 10-12 mio)
> 09/10 19.000,00 $ (7.962,50 Blount + Ricks new contract in range 10-12 mio)
> 
> -	Wallys salary:
> 
> 06/07 11.000,00 $ + Jones 664,209 $
> 07/08 12.000,00 $
> 08/09 13.000,00 $ + 1. round rookie contract (1-1,5 mio)
> 09/10 X + 1. round rookie contract (1-1,5 mio)
> 
> -	Wally is tradable. If it will somehow not work in boston there are teams in the nba which would be willing to trade for Wally.
> 
> *
> So to conclude I really think this is a good trade for the Celtics!!!*


it MAY be a good trade. Or it could end up screwing us in the ***. You never know. The guys we got better be in uni tonight or i will throw a fit.


----------



## Premier

*Re: Ricky Davis to Minnesota (Official)*



Causeway said:


> The bottom line in my opinion is we weren't winning with these guys, so allow the young guys to play, add Wally and see what happens. Blount and Banks were malcontents and Blount especially was in the way, Davis did some things beind the scenes, and Reed just isn't that good. Plus Ainge's strenght is drafting so they could potentially get another good player with the pick...and they have an outside chance of the kid in the D league to be a decent bench player.


Wally hinders rebuilding.

If the Celtics were keen to trade Ricky, there would've been much better options at the deadline to the tune of a nice young star (possibly Pietrus + filler) and a draft pick.


----------



## Floods

*Re: Ricky Davis to Minnesota (Official)*



ehmunro said:


> No, we're not. At least I'm not. But the fact is that Davis did a lot of little things that Szczerbiak is incapable of doing. And these thankless tasks that Davis performed changed the way the rest of the team was able to play. This is why when you look at the +/- numbers for the Celtics you see that Boston gets beaten like a rented mule when he's not on the floor (opponent eFG% skyrockets and opponents' offensive efficiency reaches 1980s Celtics levels). For example, Davis was Boston's key transition defender. His speed and quickness getting back on defense was one reason that West is so reckless on offense. West regularly gambles and takes himself out of position defensively because Davis was there to cover. That's something that neither Pierce nor Szczerbiak can do. Now if West chases after offensive boards the Celtics are either going to have to send a much better rebounder (Pierce) backt to try and seal off the break, or simply resign themselves to other teams getting a lot of easy points. Davis was also the secondary ballhandler and primary quarterback on offense. West got breathing room taking the ball upcourt because to pressure West meant springing either Davis or Pierce. And part of what made West so efficient was that the offense initiated when he passed the ball off to Davis, allowing him to move to the weakside for open shots. Now Davis has been replaced by someone that's a terrible ballhandler, meaning that West will probably see more pressure defense. And West will no longer have the luxury of shooting from the weakside,
> 
> Davis has also been the sacrificial lamb on the defensive end this year. Rivers regularly stuck Davis on the opponents' best wing players to allow Pierce to conserve energy on defense. Szczerbiak is incapable of doing this, meaning that Pierce is going to have to expend loads of energy defending the Dwyane Wades and LeBron James of the NBA. This means that he won't have as much energy on the offensive end, and his overall performance there is likely to suffer. So, to replace Davis with someone "more efficient" they are (likely) sacrificing Pierce's efficiency in the bargain. Add in the fact that Szczerbiak makes twice what Davis does and it gets more troubling still. To top it all off Szczerbiak is the kind of guy that gets you to the playoffs, and then completely vanishes once you get there (spot shooters have zero excuses for making as many turnovers as Wally does in the postseason), which makes him the worst sort of player you can have on your roster.
> 
> *I'm sure the SpEds love the trade, all they see is another caucasian player, and probably think that Wally's inability to handle the ball will lead to fewer turnovers. The problem is that a large number of those turnovers will still be made, and just dispersed to West and Pierce. At which point the SpEds will start crying for Pierce's head, too.*




forget your meds this morning?


----------



## Causeway

*Re: Ricky Davis to Minnesota (Official)*



Premier said:


> Wally hinders rebuilding.
> 
> If the Celtics were keen to trade Ricky, there would've been much better options at the deadline to the tune of a nice young star (possibly Pietrus + filler) and a draft pick.


How does Wally "hinders rebuilding". And NO WAY does he hinder the progress of Perkins and AJ more than Blount did.




Premier said:


> If the Celtics were keen to trade Ricky, there would've been much better options at the deadline to the tune of a nice young star (possibly Pietrus + filler) and a draft pick.[/


Maybe they were maybe they were not "keen to trade Ricky". Maybe the Ricky Wally swap had to happen to dump Blount. But it's funny to me that people always assume that there was a better deal out there - or would be.


----------



## Floods

now why couldn't this have been metal-hands Mark for Kandi straight up? :curse:


----------



## Causeway

Because we had to give up _something _ to lose Blount and his crap attitude crap hands and contract.


----------



## Premier

I'm sure Blount could've went for either Olowokandi or Lorenzen Wright, along with Banks.

Ricky did not need to be included. The only explanation is that Ainge is enamored with Wally.


----------



## Floods

Causeway said:


> Because we had to give up _something _ to lose Blount and his crap attitude crap hands and contract.


we didn't need to deal Ricky i'm fine with Justin leaving.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Ricky Davis to Minnesota (Official)*



Premier said:


> Wally hinders rebuilding.


The largest looming problem is Wyc's wallet. Because their big three are now Pierce, Wallyworld, and Lafrentz, unless they're committed to unloading Pierce, they're not going to be able to resign the kids and pay the draft picks without going heavily into luxury tax land. My guess is that it's Pierce getting shipped out.



TheBigDonut said:


> forget your meds this morning?


Is it uncomfortable on the small bus?


----------



## Floods

*Re: Ricky Davis to Minnesota (Official)*



ehmunro said:


> The largest looming problem is Wyc's wallet. Because their big three are now Pierce, Wallyworld, and Lafrentz, unless they're committed to unloading Pierce, they're not going to be able to resign the kids and pay the draft picks without going heavily into luxury tax land. My guess is that it's Pierce getting shipped out.
> 
> 
> 
> Is it uncomfortable on the small bus?


don't take a bus.


----------



## #1AntoineWalkerFan

*Re: Ricky Davis to Minnesota (Official)*



KingHandles said:


> In the middle of all this...I really miss Brandon Hunter...



yea i miss a former celtic power forward too


----------



## P2TheTruth34

goddamn it i dont mind wally but we cant give up ricky. and with ricky we have no need for wally. what happened to blount and banks for kandi and hudson or something like that.


----------



## LX

On a sidenote: 

What #s are Szczerbiak and Olowkandi going to switch to? 

I'm assuming they are going to take Ricky's 12 and Blount's 30 respectively. 

Wally can't stay as #10, because that's JoJo White's retired number, and Olowkandi definitely can't touch the #35 as that's the late Reggie Lewis' #.


----------



## rdm2

Grats on Olowokandi =\.......

Bad trade. I would melt if this happened to my team.


----------



## jimmywolfrey

Now that Ricky Davis is gone, the Celtics will win the close games at the end. Ricky cost the C's so many games when the deciding factor was a few plays at the end of the game. Ricky Davis should be nicknamed 'the 1 minute man' or in basketball terms shoot within 3 seconds of crossing half court.

RIcky was an improving defender but was below average help defender still. He is ok at 1 on 1 defending but playing a trap defense means you have to be smart defensively and ricky never has had a very high basketball IQ. 

Ainge really wanted to get rid of Mark Blount and Marcus Banks. I think that was the whole point of the trade. Wally is a very good player so don't knock him until he plays within the Celtic's system. 

To get rid of Mark's contract he had to match salaries and Ricky Davis was the key since this allowed them to match salaries in the trade since he only makes 5-6 million a year. I don't think Ainge wanted to give Ricky Davis a big contract after his current one was up anyway so he just unloaded Ricky now. 

Ainge is very high on Tony Allen. This will allow Tony Allen to get more playing time.

The Celtics are missing a player so it probably means they will bring up Dwayne Jones or Gerald Green or Ryan Gomes into the active rotation.

I think Dwayne Jones was a good player to include since he actually can play defense in the middle. He has playing great defense in the NBDL. Just needs a chance to play. 

Perkins/Olowakandi (LaFrentz)
LaFrentz/Al Jefferson/Scalabrine
Wally/(Pierce) (Gomes)
Pierce/Tony Allen(Dwest)(gerald green)
DWest/OGreene


----------



## jimmywolfrey

P2TheTruth34 said:


> goddamn it i dont mind wally but we cant give up ricky. and with ricky we have no need for wally. what happened to blount and banks for kandi and hudson or something like that.


to take on Blount's contract that would be lopsided trade financially and capwise for the Celtics.


----------



## jimmywolfrey

the next move is to unload LaFrentz possibly with a draft pick for almost nothing to get LaFrentz' contract off the books.


----------



## Premier

Ricky kept us in the game in the first place.

I don't know what you're talking about.


----------



## aquaitious

jimmywolfrey said:


> the next move is to unload LaFrentz possibly with a draft pick for almost nothing to get LaFrentz' contract off the books.


Pierce + Raef + 7 1st rounders would get rid of Raef considering it took us Ricky to get rid of Mark Blount, who actually contributed unlike some.


Anyway to reply to some random posts:

1) Wally spreads the floor.

Ya, ok. The last time I checked KG was still in Minny, Al Jefferson still doesn't pass like Magic Johnson, and Kendrick Perkins does not comand double teams like McHale..

2) Getting rid of Ricky's contract before giving him a big one in 3 years.

Great thinking! We should get rid of West, Green, Perkins and Jefferson too, they'll be asking for more money later one.

3) Wally = Ricky.

Ya, Wally will be the teams PG now. 

4) Freeing up minutes for Perk and Al.

Yeah, Mark Blount has really hindered minutes for the Celtics for the past six games.

5) Pierce and West

EH has said all that really matters about this, so I won't add much but say I agree with him.


----------



## UVM Hoop Cat

Even if Tony Allen becomes Ricky Davis, that is at least 3 years away.

Ricky Davis is playing the best basketball of his career this season, and Allen is where Davis was 3 or 4 years ago.


----------



## aquaitious

UVM Hoop Cat said:


> Even if Tony Allen becomes Ricky Davis, that is at least 3 years away.
> 
> Ricky Davis is playing the best basketball of his career this season, and Allen is where Davis was 3 or 4 years ago.


Tony Allen is scoring 20 points for the Celtics? Didn't know that.

Tony Allen is where Ricky Davis when he came into the league.


----------



## UVM Hoop Cat

*Re: Ricky Davis to Minnesota (Official)*



jokeaward said:


> The folks at the Star Tribune forums _haaaate_ this trade. Just so you know.
> 
> One guy said Mchale was "once a Celtic, always a Celtic." There have been numerous calls for his job, although not strictly starting yesterday.


I don't think there really was a winner or loser in this trade, I just think it shows Ainge and the owners have no coherent vision for this team.

I mean, a couple years ago you trade for a guy like Ricky to get younger, and now that he is playing mature basketball and playing very well for that matter, you trade him for Wally? 

Wally isn't the kind of guy you go pick up to win games, not at the expense of Ricky Davis...I mean, i know there were other pieces in the deal, but this was the main piece.


----------



## Premier

*Re: Ricky Davis to Minnesota (Official)*

Exactly. That is my major issue with this deal.

Where exactly does Wally fit? I don't mind trading Ricky while he is at an enormously high value, but I would only trade him to get younger and acquire smart contracts and draft selections. Trading Ricky for an older player with twice the contract does not make sense as you don't accomplish you main goal - rebuild. In fact, by trading Blount for nothing, you become worse. So this trade will result in a worse team (speculation; do not quote me on that as Wally hasn't played in Doc's system yet) with a worse future (unless the 'Wolves tank next season and we land Oden ).

Ainge sounds very unreasonable right now on the telecast.


----------



## ZWW

*Re: Why the Bos:Min trade is a good trade for Celtics!*



klemen4 said:


> *My analysis:
> 
> It looks like a good trade for Celtics, Why:*
> 
> *PLUSES*
> 
> *1)	Lost three players BOS didnt have in long term future plans:*
> 
> -	Blount (everybody wanted him and his salary out)
> -	Banks (would go in the summer)
> -	Reed (no roster spot, questionable quality ,would go in the summer)
> 
> *
> 2)	Got one player with expiring contract*
> 
> -	Olowokandis $5,949,570 are gone or BOS can make a sign and trade in the summer
> 
> 
> *3)	Got a 1. round draft pick in 08, which looks like a good draft and one young pf/c*
> 
> -	It looks like 1. round pick will be around 15-20 (can draft good bench player or young prospect)
> -	Maybe 6-11 Jones can develop to be a good defensive pf/c for small salary to back up Perk and Al.
> 
> 
> *4)	Got % looking wise one of the best shooters in NBA in Wally*
> 
> -	He is playing the best ball in his carer 50% FG, 40% 3pointers, 90% FT
> 
> *
> MINUSES*
> *
> 1)	Lost Ricky Davis, BUT…*
> 
> …Ricky is better than Wally only in a few categories:
> 
> -	more athletic&faster
> -	defensively stronger
> -	better passer
> -	has more steals
> -	2. years younger
> 
> Wally is better in:
> -	% FG
> -	% 3 pointers
> -	% FT
> -	less turnovers
> -	takes fewer shots
> -	can post up
> -	more consistent
> -	stronger
> -	smarter, professional, good work ethics, rational
> 
> *2)	Wally salary, BUT…*
> 
> -	Blount&Davis salary:
> 
> 06/07 12.488,00 $
> 07/08 13.555,00 $
> 08/09 18.000,00 $ (7.350,00 Blount + Ricks new contract in range 10-12 mio)
> 09/10 19.000,00 $ (7.962,50 Blount + Ricks new contract in range 10-12 mio)
> 
> -	Wallys salary:
> 
> 06/07 11.000,00 $ + Jones 664,209 $
> 07/08 12.000,00 $
> 08/09 13.000,00 $ + 1. round rookie contract (1-1,5 mio)
> 09/10 X + 1. round rookie contract (1-1,5 mio)
> 
> -	Wally is tradable. If it will somehow not work in boston there are teams in the nba which would be willing to trade for Wally.
> 
> *
> So to conclude I really think this is a good trade for the Celtics!!!*



Good post. I guess we should all relax, take a deep breath, and try and look at the bright side.


----------



## sologigolos

*Re: Why the Bos:Min trade is a good trade for Celtics!*

one thing we fail to think about (i sure as hell did) is if Danny thinks that Tony Allen will be able to step into the tole of slasher/defender role that Ricky Davis played. Of course he's young, but Danny ain't looking to win in the next 2 years. Ricky is a hell of a talent, but if Tony Allen could develop to be 70% of the player that Ricky Davis is, the trade is worth it, IMO. in baseball and football this happens all the time, talent being moved when younger guys are ready to step in. in basketball, it's less noticeable (and less common) because of restrictive trading, lack of roster spots, and small number of rookies each year, I think. We can't look at the trade for the trade itself, but how much it affects the team both positively and negatively. I think that if Danny's gamble is correct, and Allen can develop (headcaseness aside), losing ricky isn't a huge minus.


----------



## Premier

*Re: Why the Bos:Min trade is a good trade for Celtics!*

Losing Ricky for a player that doesn't fit with our so-called "rebuilding" process _is_ a huge mistake.


----------



## P-Dub34

*Re: Why the Bos:Min trade is a good trade for Celtics!*

Agree with Prem, but we can't do anything about it, so here's to hoping Wally can make a positive contribution to this club.


----------



## Causeway

Premier said:


> I'm sure Blount could've went for either Olowokandi or Lorenzen Wright, along with Banks.
> 
> Ricky did not need to be included. The only explanation is that Ainge is enamored with Wally.


you are "sure"? have you seen Blount play lately? have you seen his contract? and you are "sure" Ricky did not need to be included? Please tell me how you know this.


----------



## Causeway

more bright side from the Herald:



> It’s easy to overstate a player’s impact after one game. But Szczerbiak’s enthusiasm, combined with his ability to pound the ball into Kendrick Perkins (13 points, 11 rebounds, five blocks) and Al Jefferson (13 tough, paint-based points), gave the Celtics a new, energized look and feel.
> 
> Their 53-31 rebounding edge, with Raef LaFrentz also logging a double-double (12 points, 10 boards) was a season high.
> 
> “The ball movement stood out right away, and that’s why we started him in the second half,” Rivers said. “It’s early, but I didn’t know he had energy like that. We haven’t given each other that many high-fives all season.
> 
> “On the bench, in timeouts, he’s into games, and that’s good for us. We played (Minnesota) two weeks ago, and I called three plays that he knew right away. He was telling us what he knew about us.”
> 
> It didn’t take long for the Celtics to warm to a player who will clearly be their new starting small forward. Paul Pierce, working on an 18-point, seven-rebound, six-assist night, quickly started calling for the ball in the post opposite Szczerbiak.
> 
> Remember that look. Pierce plans to search for it the rest of the way.
> 
> “He has a guy guarding him who isn’t going to come off him,” Pierce said of Szczerbiak’s danger as a shooter. “He can really open it up for me, and I think we can be a serious threat that way.”


----------



## P-Dub34

> *We haven’t given each other that many high-fives all season. *


More positive news re: Wally's attitude. Hopefully he can keep it up.

Regarding his shooting - all year, when watching him on the Wolves, he seems like he is brimming with confidence, no matter what the situation. Every shot he takes, I think is going in. That's just me though - a big Wally fan.


----------



## aquaitious

P-Dub34 said:


> More positive news re: Wally's attitude. Hopefully he can keep it up.
> 
> Regarding his shooting - all year, when watching him on the Wolves, he seems like he is brimming with confidence, no matter what the situation. Every shot he takes, I think is going in. That's just me though - a big Wally fan.


I can see Wally and Perk getting along very well. They both love high fiving each other.


----------



## P-Dub34

> They both love high fiving each other.


Well, with a little luck, they'll be having reason to high-five often in the future.


----------



## Premier

Causeway said:


> you are "sure"? have you seen Blount play lately? have you seen his contract? and you are "sure" Ricky did not need to be included? Please tell me how you know this.


Reportedly (yes, I know that there is flaws in this logic but unless I'm offered any inside "sauces" (), this is the only method for information), Memphis and Minnesota were interested in Blount for their expirings. Lorenzen Wright is simply disliked by the Grizzlies fan-base to a point that West would've traded him for a center such as Blount who is paid what he should be paid. Remember, Blount is an average center, something many teams crave for (and spend a lot of money for). I do not think McHale would've made the Olowokandi trade as he wasn't desperate in trading him as he has Eddie Griffin and Kevin Garnett, but Jerry West (in my opinion) would've dealt Wright for Blount and Banks (he also needs a point guard - currently he has Bobby Jackson and Chucky Atkins [recently signed]).


----------



## Causeway

Could be true. Unless someone like West comes out and says so - we'll never really know what was _really_ on the table.

I think Wally is going to be very good for our young club.


----------



## aquaitious

Causeway said:


> Could be true. Unless someone like West comes out and says so - we'll never really know what was _really_ on the table.
> 
> I think Wally is going to be very good for our young club.


Cause, I don't think anyone is really arguing Wally being bad for this club (probably not as important as Ricky though), but his contract adds five layers of tape on already tied hands.

Wally's a very good player, and one of the best 3rd/4th options on a good team, but if Wally is going to be one of the "core" guys for the future, I don't see us getting far.


----------



## Causeway

aquaitious said:


> Cause, I don't think anyone is really arguing Wally being bad for this club (probably not as important as Ricky though), but his contract adds five layers of tape on already tied hands.
> 
> Wally's a very good player, and one of the best 3rd/4th options on a good team, but if Wally is going to be one of the "core" guys for the future, I don't see us getting far.


worst case is while the young guys are developing and maturing you have a great attitude hard working allstar caliber player to rub off on these guys.


----------



## whiterhino

My first reaction to this trade was shock BUT and I know my opinion will be an unpopular one, I like it....A LOT. Ricky I liked a lot and he's matured and is cheap however his help defense was a big issue on the team, more than we knew it sounds....also even in his best season he has been soo sooo streaky. Blount I can't stand and wanted gone gone gone. Marcus I loved but he'd never play here and needed to go as to not be a distraction. Justin is a good role player but I like Gomes better and this opens up play for him. On Wally, I like Wally....I think his defense is not quite as bad as many think, he's definately a better help defender than Ricky....one on one he's not as good but not that much worse either. He is one of the best pure shooters in the league but he also rebounds and can make a good pass when he sees an open man. The guy was an all-star at one point and he's having a great season now that he's finally healthy again. I don't like his paycheck either but lets face it, he's a big contributer making a little more than he should as compared to Raef who's a 5th or 6th guy making #2 guy money. 
Wally will open up the floor for this team a lot and it's going to make Al & Perk's games shine.....and with Blount gone the minutes are there now too. The 1st rounder is a bonus. Olawakandi will never play and be gone at seasons end. Jones I really know very little about so we shall see if he helps at all or not. All in all, I'm one of the few that don't hate this deal.


----------



## Causeway

whiterhino said:


> My first reaction to this trade was shock BUT and I know my opinion will be an unpopular one, I like it....A LOT. Ricky I liked a lot and he's matured and is cheap however his help defense was a big issue on the team, more than we knew it sounds....also even in his best season he has been soo sooo streaky. Blount I can't stand and wanted gone gone gone. Marcus I loved but he'd never play here and needed to go as to not be a distraction. Justin is a good role player but I like Gomes better and this opens up play for him. On Wally, I like Wally....I think his defense is not quite as bad as many think, he's definately a better help defender than Ricky....one on one he's not as good but not that much worse either. He is one of the best pure shooters in the league but he also rebounds and can make a good pass when he sees an open man. The guy was an all-star at one point and he's having a great season now that he's finally healthy again. I don't like his paycheck either but lets face it, he's a big contributer making a little more than he should as compared to Raef who's a 5th or 6th guy making #2 guy money.
> Wally will open up the floor for this team a lot and it's going to make Al & Perk's games shine.....and with Blount gone the minutes are there now too. The 1st rounder is a bonus. Olawakandi will never play and be gone at seasons end. Jones I really know very little about so we shall see if he helps at all or not. All in all, I'm one of the few that don't hate this deal.


nice post! :clap: Count me as one of the few as well that like this deal.


----------



## aquaitious

whiterhino said:


> My first reaction to this trade was shock BUT and I know my opinion will be an unpopular one, I like it....A LOT. Ricky I liked a lot and he's matured and is cheap however his help defense was a big issue on the team, more than we knew it sounds....also even in his best season he has been soo sooo streaky. Blount I can't stand and wanted gone gone gone. Marcus I loved but he'd never play here and needed to go as to not be a distraction. Justin is a good role player but I like Gomes better and this opens up play for him. On Wally, I like Wally....I think his defense is not quite as bad as many think, he's definately a better help defender than Ricky....one on one he's not as good but not that much worse either. He is one of the best pure shooters in the league but he also rebounds and can make a good pass when he sees an open man. The guy was an all-star at one point and he's having a great season now that he's finally healthy again. I don't like his paycheck either but lets face it, he's a big contributer making a little more than he should as compared to Raef who's a 5th or 6th guy making #2 guy money.
> Wally will open up the floor for this team a lot and it's going to make Al & Perk's games shine.....and with Blount gone the minutes are there now too. The 1st rounder is a bonus. Olawakandi will never play and be gone at seasons end. Jones I really know very little about so we shall see if he helps at all or not. All in all, I'm one of the few that don't hate this deal.


Once again, did Al turn into a pass and Perk into a dominant post player that they can pass it to Wally when double teamed?

Wally's a great player, just not good enough for the money he makes...more importantly the years that are due to him.


----------



## Causeway

Here we go with players salaries again...would you rather have an overpaid downer turnover machine slab of nothing like Blount - or Wally plus the #1 pick? We had to give up something and take something on to lose Blount. The positives outweigh the negatives. So why just focus on negatives?


----------



## Premier

I would rather have Blount and Ricky because I'm confident that we could trade Blount and Banks for an expiring contract without having to deal Ricky Davis and his great value.


----------



## Causeway

If it was reversed and the Celtics traded an expiring contract for Blount and Banks people would yell for Ainges's head.


----------



## aquaitious

Causeway said:


> Here we go with players salaries again...would you rather have an overpaid downer turnover machine slab of nothing like Blount - or Wally plus the #1 pick? We had to give up something and take something on to lose Blount. The positives outweigh the negatives. So why just focus on negatives?


What are the positives besides getting rid of Blount?

Don't say 1st rounder, because I'm sick of those. We have about 7 more in the next two years.


----------



## Causeway

aquaitious said:


> What are the positives besides getting rid of Blount?
> 
> Don't say 1st rounder, because I'm sick of those. We have about 7 more in the next two years.


First of all I do not think you can minimize the "getting rid of Blount" factor. He had a piss poor attitude. He was a dark cloud on the team. He was blocking the way for the growth of Perks and AJ. He's a dick.

Wally is not a positive? He's a former allstar having his best season. Teams put their best perimiter defender on him. He can hit the outside shot as well as anyone. No one is slacking off Wally to double Pierce - or if they do that's good. This is a fantastic compliment to Pierce and his slashing game. He has a great attitude and this team could us some positive vet - especially from a guy who can play and especially with a young team. I don't really care what he makes. I care what he brings to the team and what he does on the floor. If we lost a game I never thought "well at least Ricky is under paid" for example. Wally in Bston is a good thing.

And don't discount 1st rounders. At worst they can help trades.

Plus Blount is gone. Gone. What a beautiful thing.


----------



## Causeway

At the moment AJ has 10 points and 11 rebounds in 17 minutes.

Bye bye Blount.


----------



## aquaitious

Causeway said:


> At the moment AJ has 10 points and 11 rebounds in 17 minutes.
> 
> Bye bye Blount.


Blount was playing here as much as Kandi will be, in the past six games.


----------



## Premier

Causeway said:


> If it was reversed and the Celtics traded an expiring contract for Blount and Banks people would yell for Ainges's head.


You're way too critical of Blount. He is a decent center in another system. I would love that trade if the Celtics weren't rebuilding. Blount is a fine backup or even starter on a good team.


----------



## aquaitious

Causeway said:


> First of all I do not think you can minimize the "getting rid of Blount" factor. He had a piss poor attitude. He was a dark cloud on the team. He was blocking the way for the growth of Perks and AJ. He's a dick.
> 
> Wally is not a positive? He's a former allstar having his best season. Teams put their best perimiter defender on him. He can hit the outside shot as well as anyone. No one is slacking off Wally to double Pierce - or if they do that's good. This is a fantastic compliment to Pierce and his slashing game. He has a great attitude and this team could us some positive vet - especially from a guy who can play and especially with a young team. I don't really care what he makes. I care what he brings to the team and what he does on the floor. If we lost a game I never thought "well at least Ricky is under paid" for example. Wally in Bston is a good thing.
> 
> And don't discount 1st rounders. At worst they can help trades.
> 
> Plus Blount is gone. Gone. What a beautiful thing.


He's gone at the expense of Ricky Davis, who's a much better play than Wally ever was or will be.

He's a great shooter, good for him. 

He brings us a bit better team defense.

The attitute crap is irrelevant if you figure that Ricky was about the same 'fun' guy too.


If you don't care what he makes, that's fine, at least Al and the other youngins will get some expierance when they sign with other teams because Wally's here with Raef and Pierce making 90% of the salary cap.


----------



## Causeway

Premier said:


> You're way too critical of Blount. He is a decent center in another system. I would love that trade if the Celtics weren't rebuilding.


I have always said Blount had some skills and a fantastic shot. But he only played when he felt like it. Most of the time he moped around like a sad kid. That stuff is bad for a team.



Premier said:


> Blount is a fine backup or even starter on a good team.


if you are the Wolves - are you happy to add Blount?


----------



## Premier

Yes. He is much more than just an upgrade than Olowokandi and fits well in a system where he is able to spread the defense for Garnett not to be double-teamed and he doesn't have to match up against the opposing teams best offensive player.


----------



## Richie Rich

aquaitious said:


> He's gone at the expense of Ricky Davis, who's a much better play than Wally ever was or will be.
> 
> He's a great shooter, good for him.
> 
> He brings us a bit better team defense.
> 
> The attitute crap is irrelevant if you figure that Ricky was about the same 'fun' guy too.
> 
> 
> If you don't care what he makes, that's fine, at least Al and the other youngins will get some expierance when they sign with other teams because Wally's here with Raef and Pierce making 90% of the salary cap.


You're obviously more of a Ricky fan than C's fan and quite frankly I've read enough of it...I don't usually disagree too much with people, but stop whining and get over it...And your Timberwolve believer and bla bla bla while it may be a joke, is oh so immature, grow up please


----------



## aquaitious

Richie Rich said:


> You're obviously more of a Ricky fan than C's fan and quite frankly I've read enough of it...I don't usually disagree too much with people, but stop whining and get over it...And your Timberwolve believer and bla bla bla while it may be a joke, is oh so immature, grow up please


Yes, I've applied to mod the T'Wolves forum, still waiting for the final decision.

Getting tickets to move to Minny tomorrow...that should be fun, they do say it can get a bit colder up there.

We'll see. Until then Ricky Davis > Boston Celtics.

What's the point of a message board? To agree with Danny Ainge?


----------



## E.H. Munro

aquaitious said:


> What are the positives besides getting rid of Blount?
> 
> Don't say 1st rounder, because I'm sick of those. We have about 7 more in the next two years.


Edit aqua

The absolute worst part of this deal is that unless the ownership is committed to going _deep_ into luxury tax land Pierce is gone. Because the Celtics have about $81 million tied up in two malingerers that no one else wants (Lafrentz & Szczerbiak), their payroll is essentially dead for the next three years. In 2007 Perkins hits RFA status, assuming that Pierce is still here, and setting aside about seven million to pay for three first round picks between now and then, they'll have about $10-$12 million available beneath the luxury tax threshold. The year after that they have to make decisions on Jefferson, West, Allen, and Pierce (presuming they haven't unloaded him by then). At that point they'll have about $29 million tied up in what's likely to be an unperforming contract (Lafrentz), Szczerbiak, & Scalabrine. The going rate for above MLE centers is around $8 million per year, so let's use that as the figure for Perkins. So that puts them at $37 million for those four players, likely another $9 million for first round picks, leaving about $16-$18 million to pay Pierce, Jefferson, West, and Allen. So they'll either get Pierce or Jefferson to re-sign, along with Allen (who'll be the cheapest of the kids), and let the others walk. That's what this trade has set up. 

Edit aqua


----------



## #1AntoineWalkerFan

i think nbadraft.net has caught up with ainges "vision"....they have the c's taking jj reddick with the #7 overall pick


----------



## Causeway

Edit aqua.

You two have been very bad boys, you should be ashamed of yourself.


----------



## Causeway

aquaitious said:


> Blount was playing here as much as Kandi will be, in the past six games.


_in the last six games_. becuase the trade was imminent.


----------



## Causeway

aquaitious said:


> He's gone at the expense of Ricky Davis, who's a much better play than Wally ever was or will be.


"a much better play than Wally ever was or will be." come on.



> He's a great shooter, good for him.


one of the best in the NBA. 



> He brings us a bit better team defense.


we need all the help there we can get.



> The attitute crap is irrelevant if you figure that Ricky was about the same 'fun' guy too.


maybe. 




> If you don't care what he makes, that's fine, at least Al and the other youngins will get some expierance when they sign with other teams because Wally's here with Raef and Pierce making 90% of the salary cap.


that will be an issue. it also would have been an issue with Blount and Ricky here. That has not changed.


----------



## Causeway

Premier said:


> Yes. He is much more than just an upgrade than Olowokandi and fits well in a system where he is able to spread the defense for Garnett not to be double-teamed and he doesn't have to match up against the opposing teams best offensive player.


not sure I agree with your assessment of Blount in Minn - but if so so win-win. Blount did not fit here. He was not going to be moved without giving something up and taking something on.


----------



## whiterhino

Aqua your the best but I gotta disagree with you on Ricky vs. Wally. To me Ricky is not only not Clearly better than Wally, he's not better than Wally. He's come a long way, his attitude has done a 360 and of course he's much cheaper but Wally is more consistent, a better help defender, and a better shooter to free up Paul and the young guys. They can't leave him open, when Ricky had off nights teams let him shoot the ball all night, he's streaky. I wish him the best in Minny, he's a good guy but the fact is that he will be due a big pay day when his contract is up too and I wouldn't have given it to him. I think Minny will be happy with him and Blount may pick it up with the change of pace but I also think this was a good deal for the Celts too. Raef's contract is the one that kills us, not Wally's......Raef is not even a full time starter in skill anymore (due to injuries not lack of heart) yet he's making so much money that if we don't somehow unload him we will lose some of our future.


----------



## E.H. Munro

I'm not certain where the myth about Szczerbiak being a better help defender than Davis started, unless it's the old "<insert name of random Caucasian player that can't defend a police officer before a Simi Valley jury here> is a good help defender," thing because he isn't. He rotates to the right man after his man takes him off the dribble (at a near 100% success rate), but it isn't enough for a perimeter defender to let himself get taken off the dribble at will and lumber to the right spot on the floor. Perimeter defenders that can't man up are a big liability. Beyond that there's the item of transition defense, and Szczerbiak may be one of the worst transition defenders in the show (for a wing). As a defender, Davis looked worse than he actually was because of the assignments he got (i.e. he got the toughest perimeter scorer to allow Pierce to conserve energy for offense), Szczerbiak got the Pierce treatment in Minnesota, and unfortunately here in Boston Rivers is going to be forced to sacrifice Pierce's performance to cover up for Wallyworld. To me that's a bad tradeoff, because Szczerbiak has one offensive skill, and a skill that he loses under pressure. 

Davis is a much more versatile player on both sides of the ball, and that versatility makes him better than Szczerbiak. I guess this year Davis will get to show whether or not he can do it in the postseason, and that's a big part of the reason Minnesota wanted Davis. Szczerbiak has been a career playoff cancer, he vanished on the court and blamed his teammates for his own failings. On the bright side, with Szczerbiak a key part of the puzzle, and without a top 3 NBA player to compensate, Boston won't have to worry about Szczerbiak's postseason choking. :bsmile:


----------



## aquaitious

Causeway said:


> _in the last six games_. becuase the trade was imminent.



Why did the Wolves not bench Wally? Or the Celtics Ricky?


----------



## aquaitious

Causeway said:


> "a much better play than Wally ever was or will be." come on.


Are you seriously going to argue that Wally's a better player than Ricky? Better shooter? Yes. Better help defender? Yes, nothing great though. Better at anythinge else? Sorry.

As Barkley, "Peja doesn't have a Plan B when his shot isn't falling. All-Stars have a Plan B, this guy doesn't." Well the same thing can be said about Wally, because he's limited to doing things players like Davis can.

God help me, I just quoted Barkley.



Causeway said:


> one of the best in the NBA.


This time I'll quote a more intellectual person. Cedric Maxwell "the last time I checked, games are not won by shooting percentage." 




Causeway said:


> we need all the help there we can get.


That's true, I somehow don't see Wally turning this team 180 degrees into a great defensive team. I don't see anyone with Glen Rivers as a coach here.



Causeway said:


> maybe.


Definitely.



Causeway said:


> that will be an issue. it also would have been an issue with Blount and Ricky here. That has not changed.


It wouldn't have been if Danny parted with Blount alone. But the fact that Wally will be here as a "future core" guy along with Raef, Pierce and Baker (just kidding about him), is maddening.

Those three will account for about 80%-85% of the payroll (more realistic, unlike the 90% I threw up a few days ago).


----------



## aquaitious

whiterhino said:


> Aqua your the best but I gotta disagree with you on Ricky vs. Wally. To me Ricky is not only not Clearly better than Wally, he's not better than Wally. He's come a long way, his attitude has done a 360 and of course he's much cheaper but Wally is more consistent, a better help defender, and a better shooter to free up Paul and the young guys. They can't leave him open, when Ricky had off nights teams let him shoot the ball all night, he's streaky. I wish him the best in Minny, he's a good guy but the fact is that he will be due a big pay day when his contract is up too and I wouldn't have given it to him. I think Minny will be happy with him and Blount may pick it up with the change of pace but I also think this was a good deal for the Celts too. Raef's contract is the one that kills us, not Wally's......Raef is not even a full time starter in skill anymore (due to injuries not lack of heart) yet he's making so much money that if we don't somehow unload him we will lose some of our future.



Pfft...if Ricky did a 360, he'd be in the same place. 

If Ricky is off, he has an advantage over Wally, because Ricky can create his own shot, he can take it to the hoop vs the best of them, and he will command defenders to commit to him, leaving others wide open.

Wally, can't do any of these things, and not to mention the fact that World ( :rofl: ) cannot lead the offense as well as Ricky can (and Ricky has spent significant time doing that.)

On the other hand, of course Ricky will demand more money, but just because his contract expires _two_ years from this season, it doesn't mean we need to trade him now. If all the teams had that philosophy, would there be any players left in the league after their rookie contracts? Are we going to do the same once Perk's and Al's contracts near the same position? If so, what's the point of drafting all these young guys if we can't resign them?

I completely understand that Wally adds a "different" look. but we lose much more that Ricky would have brought. Without Ricky commanding double teams, Paul will be seeing more people doubling him, (unless we play Toronto) (remember: Wally is not always the guy who'll be wide open.)

This is addition by subtraction, except we're subtracting much more than we're adding.


----------



## Causeway

aquaitious said:


> Are you seriously going to argue that Wally's a better player than Ricky? Better shooter? Yes. Better help defender? Yes, nothing great though. Better at anythinge else? Sorry.


You said Ricky is "a much better play than Wally ever was or will be." I wrote "come on". You could argue one guy is better than the other but _neither_ guy is "_a much better play than the other ever was or will be_". They are pretty close - different styles that's all.




aquaitious said:


> As Barkley, "Peja doesn't have a Plan B when his shot isn't falling. All-Stars have a Plan B, this guy doesn't." Well the same thing can be said about Wally, because he's limited to doing things players like Davis can.
> 
> God help me, I just quoted Barkley.


his plan A is pretty damn good.




aquaitious said:


> This time I'll quote a more intellectual person. Cedric Maxwell "the last time I checked, games are not won by shooting percentage."


A high shooting percentage is a good thing in my book.




aquaitious said:


> That's true,* I somehow don't see Wally turning this team 180 degrees into a great defensive team. I don't see anyone with Glen Rivers as a coach here*.


very true. that is a huge issue.





aquaitious said:


> Definitely.


maybe 





aquaitious said:


> It wouldn't have been if Danny parted with Blount alone. But the fact that Wally will be here as a "future core" guy along with Raef, Pierce and Baker (just kidding about him), is maddening.
> 
> Those three will account for about 80%-85% of the payroll (more realistic, unlike the 90% I threw up a few days ago).


I just don't think it was possible to part with Blount without giving up something and or/taking something else on. Maybe it was - I don't think so.


----------



## aquaitious

ehmunro said:


> I'm not certain where the myth about Szczerbiak being a better help defender than Davis started, unless it's the old "<insert name of random Caucasian player that can't defend a police officer before a Simi Valley jury here> is a good help defender," thing because he isn't. He rotates to the right man after his man takes him off the dribble (at a near 100% success rate), but it isn't enough for a perimeter defender to let himself get taken off the dribble at will and lumber to the right spot on the floor. Perimeter defenders that can't man up are a big liability. Beyond that there's the item of transition defense, and Szczerbiak may be one of the worst transition defenders in the show (for a wing). As a defender, Davis looked worse than he actually was because of the assignments he got (i.e. he got the toughest perimeter scorer to allow Pierce to conserve energy for offense), Szczerbiak got the Pierce treatment in Minnesota, and unfortunately here in Boston Rivers is going to be forced to sacrifice Pierce's performance to cover up for Wallyworld. To me that's a bad tradeoff, because Szczerbiak has one offensive skill, and a skill that he loses under pressure.
> 
> Davis is a much more versatile player on both sides of the ball, and that versatility makes him better than Szczerbiak. I guess this year Davis will get to show whether or not he can do it in the postseason, and that's a big part of the reason Minnesota wanted Davis. Szczerbiak has been a career playoff cancer, he vanished on the court and blamed his teammates for his own failings. On the bright side, with Szczerbiak a key part of the puzzle, and without a top 3 NBA player to compensate, Boston won't have to worry about Szczerbiak's postseason choking. :bsmile:



As far as Wally's one on one defense goes, I think it's been discussed beyond Antoine Walker's layup succession rate, and it's safe to say it's (in a Charles Barkley voice) terrible.

But from what I've seen, both in a Celtics and T'Wolves uniform, is that Wally has a knack for seeing where the offensive player will go and getting in the way of them.

Ricky will try to disrupt the opposing player by trying to reach in, but Wally will actually commit to him, forcing the guy to turn it over or pass it to a guy further from the basket (caution: bad thing to do if you have Steve Kerr at the 3 point line.)


----------



## aquaitious

Causeway said:


> You said Ricky is "a much better play than Wally ever was or will be." I wrote "come on". You could argue one guy is better than the other but _neither_ guy is "_a much better play than the other ever was or will be_". They are pretty close - different styles that's all.


Just because I've misspelled "player" with "play" it doesn't mean you have to continue quoting me on it. 

Anyway, Wally's a very good player, he brings a ton of things to a team, but not nearly as much as Ricky can/does/will.



Causeway said:


> his plan A is pretty damn good.


Kedrick Brown's plan A (dunk) was pretty damn good (free throw line in the summer league), he plan B never came into play.  What I'm trying to say is, if plan A doesn't work, plan B needs to be put into consideration...which Wally can't do.




Causeway said:


> A high shooting percentage is a good thing in my book.


Pfft, you're also not the one that hands out the Championships. 



Causeway said:


> I just don't think it was possible to part with Blount without giving up something and or/taking something else on. Maybe it was - I don't think so.


You know those little thingies Danny loves? The thing he's got more of over the course of the next three years, than guys signed? Yeah, picks could have been used, as well as (if we have any, I think we have one or two?) exceptions...

Also, how about Tony Allen? Marcus Banks? Reed? VEAL?


----------



## Causeway

aquaitious said:


> Just because I've misspelled "player" with "play" it doesn't mean you have to continue quoting me on it.


 :biggrin:


----------



## E.H. Munro

aquaitious said:


> As far as Wally's one on one defense goes, I think it's been discussed beyond Antoine Walker's layup succession rate, and it's safe to say it's (in a Charles Barkley voice) terrible.
> 
> But from what I've seen, both in a Celtics and T'Wolves uniform, is that Wally has a knack for seeing where the offensive player will go and getting in the way of them.


Not _that_ good. Teams actively look to get a wing on Wally in isolation, never a good sign.



aquaitious said:


> Ricky will try to disrupt the opposing player by trying to reach in, but Wally will actually commit to him, forcing the guy to turn it over or pass it to a guy further from the basket (caution: bad thing to do if you have Steve Kerr at the 3 point line.)


Wally defended the Ira Newbles of the NBA, and Davis the Gilbert Arenas. That's the reason for the disparity. Wally is incapable of of doing that (unless we want to see Gilbert become the second guy to break 80 this year), so now that chore will fall to Pierce. Which means that my central point stands, Rivers will be forced to sacrifice the offensive game of a player light years better than Wallyworld to get him on the court. Keep in mind that Boston doesn't have the means to cover up Szczerbiak's weaknesses the way the T'wolves did (with Hassel & Garnett). Pierce was spot on in that regards (when complaining about being underrated as a defender).


----------



## aquaitious

ehmunro said:


> Not _that_ good. Teams actively look to get a wing on Wally in isolation, never a good sign.


He's not great or anthing, or for this matter something to brag about.  He may be a bandage trying to cover up a tumor.




ehmunro said:


> Wally defended the Ira Newbles of the NBA, and Davis the Gilbert Arenas. That's the reason for the disparity. Wally is incapable of of doing that (unless we want to see Gilbert become the second guy to break 80 this year), so now that chore will fall to Pierce. Which means that my central point stands, Rivers will be forced to sacrifice the offensive game of a player light years better than Wallyworld to get him on the court. Keep in mind that Boston doesn't have the means to cover up Szczerbiak's weaknesses the way the T'wolves did (with Hassel & Garnett). Pierce was spot on in that regards (when complaining about being underrated as a defender).


You're talking about Wally's individual defense. Which is awful, I agree and yes it will make him look even worse here (our rotating defense blows), but as him helping out other's I think he's better at doing that then Ricky.

Of course, if Wally gets iso'd every play, we'll be in deep ****.


----------



## jimmywolfrey

Obviously the trade looks bad after seeing Marcus Banks score 20 points against the Celtics 2nd team and in garbage time (i know he had a few good plays against the 1st team but not the majority). 

Banks is able to do this in minnesota since they only have one ball hog now (ricky davis and Blount to a degree i guess). Garnett is such a unselfish player it allows players to go off when they are hot. In Boston the point guard never gets a chance to go off even when they are hot when the C's had Ricky and Paul. It still will be the same situation with Wally and Paul. 

I still feel though that this trade will even out as time goes on. Wally spreads the floor from the wing. Ricky Davis could shoot 3's all day if he wanted to (some days he did). To me, defensively, I have liked what i've seen so far from the Celtics for the most part. They don't give up so many inside points and contest more jumpers. We can already see that Ricky was not a smart defensive player in his gambling/cherry picking ways. 

I don't think they can survive most teams with Wally or Pierce playing the 2 guard. Tony Allen needs to play the 2 guard.


----------



## jimmywolfrey

aquaitious said:


> You're talking about Wally's individual defense. Which is awful, I agree and yes it will make him look even worse here (our rotating defense blows), but as him helping out other's I think he's better at doing that then Ricky.
> 
> Of course, if Wally gets iso'd every play, we'll be in deep ****.



I 2nd this part of your last post! :cheers:


----------



## cgcatsfan

aquaitious said:


> He's not great or anthing, or for this matter something to brag about.  He may be a bandage trying to cover up a tumor.
> You're talking about Wally's individual defense. Which is awful, I agree and yes it will make him look even worse here (our rotating defense blows), but as him helping out other's I think he's better at doing that then Ricky.
> 
> Of course, if Wally gets iso'd every play, we'll be in deep ****.


You mean we're not??? :biggrin: 
OMG the bandage tumor remark..... :laugh: and


----------



## cgcatsfan

jimmywolfrey said:


> Obviously the trade looks bad after seeing Marcus Banks score 20 points against the Celtics 2nd team and in garbage time (i know he had a few good plays against the 1st team but not the majority).
> Banks is able to do this in minnesota since they only have one ball hog now (ricky davis and Blount to a degree i guess). Garnett is such a unselfish player it allows players to go off when they are hot. In Boston the point guard never gets a chance to go off even when they are hot when the C's had Ricky and Paul. It still will be the same situation with Wally and Paul.
> .


I want to go on record as saying I think Banks has a point to prove and will not let up for some time to come. He felt, and SOME of us agree, that the team's coaches were never behind him. 
I think Banks may surprise some naysayers.


----------



## cgcatsfan

Causeway said:


> not sure I agree with your assessment of Blount in Minn - but if so so win-win. Blount did not fit here. He was not going to be moved without giving something up and taking something on.


Cause, are you seriously suggesting it was worth getting rid of Blount if it meant shipping Rickey??
I wanted him gone, too, but it we were going to shop Ricky, why not unload LAFRENTZ??
He's got a huge freaking contract and has produced very little. 

I see Banks and Olukandi as a wash, since they would have been gone from their respective teams at the end of the year. 
We got Szerbiak, they got RICKEY. I still say Rickey's the better overall player even though Szerbiak's been doing well offensively for us. 

Sorry for the mult. postings, I've been down with the flu. I did, however miss arguing with y'all.


----------



## Causeway

cgcatsfan said:


> Cause, are you seriously suggesting it was worth getting rid of Blount if it meant shipping Rickey??
> I wanted him gone, too, but it we were going to shop Ricky, why not unload LAFRENTZ??
> He's got a huge freaking contract and has produced very little.
> 
> I see Banks and Olukandi as a wash, since they would have been gone from their respective teams at the end of the year.
> We got Szerbiak, they got RICKEY. I still say Rickey's the better overall player even though Szerbiak's been doing well offensively for us.
> 
> Sorry for the mult. postings, I've been down with the flu. I did, however miss arguing with y'all.


Yes I am seriously saying that. 

And why not unload LAFRENTZ? I'd assume becuase no one wanted him. Blount still has some nice skills and can benifit a team. Raef is declining at a scary and rapid rate.

We missed you too.


----------



## P-Dub34

> I still say Rickey's the better overall player even though Szerbiak's been doing well offensively for us.


I'd still agree with you, but he's brought some other nice aspects to go with his offense - West and Doc praised him for his ability to move the ball, his great attitude towards the game and teammates, and he actually played good defense against a much more agile Ricky Davis last game. I can hope he'll play passable D, because he's pretty athletic for a white guy, and he's more than ample size for a 3.


----------



## P-Dub34

Aqua, as for this plan B - all year long Wally has been working on his post up game and slashing. He's not great at either of them, but it is not as if he simply stands at the three point line and if he can't shoot, passes the ball away. He's had some of the nicer 3 point plays I've seen all year with Minnesota (and had a nice one in the last game taking it towards the hoop) slashing. He's not as one-dimensional as you guys think. I'm not saying other parts of his game are excellent - but his post game and slashing are average. It's not like he absolutely cannot do anything else except catch the ball and shoot it.


----------



## E.H. Munro

Szczerbiak needs other players to create his offense for him, Davis was able to create shots for his teammates. Since the trade West & Pierce have taken over Davis' chore. The results? West & Pierce have become hideously inefficient (both have PP/FGA numbers of .88 since the trade). Is Szczerbiak really worth the huge loss in efficiency from Pierce & West (both of whom were producing PP/FGA of 1.2+ prior to the deal)? I really don't see it. Especially since Szczerbiak's contract essentially makes this Pierce's last season in Boston.


----------



## P-Dub34

EH, I never said I was an advocate of the trade. In fact, I called it an "atrocious, atrocious" trade. But now that he's here, I'm trying to make the best of it, and Wally is not as bad as he is being portrayed by a lot of Boston fans, here and on other boards.


----------



## #1AntoineWalkerFan

LOL at nba.coms poll of whick marquee player will help their new team the most...ill let u guys heck it out for urselves


----------



## Richie Rich

#1AntoineWalkerFan said:


> LOL at nba.coms poll of whick marquee player will help their new team the most...ill let u guys heck it out for urselves


LMAO HAHA hehehe hardy har har


----------



## #1AntoineWalkerFan

Richie Rich said:


> LMAO HAHA hehehe hardy har har



grow up


----------



## Richie Rich

#1AntoineWalkerFan said:


> grow up


Im more mature than u ever will be, but thanks for the advice, glad it was free...


----------



## DWest Superstar

Last night at the game I found out that Wally is friends with Veal. He rolled out of the player parking lot, with him. Wally is better than that


----------



## #1AntoineWalkerFan

Richie Rich said:


> Im more mature than u ever will be, but thanks for the advice, glad it was free...




keep tellin urself that...u might start to believe it...


dont act like u know me at all and know how mature i am


----------



## KingHandles

No offense boys, but if either of you were mature, you would ignore the other person, and not respond to someone gettin' at you on a message board...So, show what maturity you do have, and ignore eachother...


----------



## #1AntoineWalkerFan

KingHandles said:


> No offense boys, but if either of you was mature, you would ignore the other person, and not respond to someone gettin' at you on a message board...So show what maturity you have and ignore eachother...




this is very true...thanks for the kick in the *** i needed it :cheers:


----------



## LX

Bump. 

Interested to see some thoughts a season later.


----------



## #1AntoineWalkerFan

no matter which way u put it this was still a bad trade...banks reed and davis for wally? ok we got rid of blount that was good...and wally is playing good through the first 10 games of the season...but once wallys knees give out again in another month or 2 it will be banks reed and davis for a guy on the ir making ALOT of money...maybe blount and davis for wally would have been OK but not adding banks and reed...and the arguement will be banks was never gonna get a shot here...well he should have cuz hes better than any pg we currently have on the roster


----------



## whiterhino

Now that we know the issues Ricky had behind the scenes and how Paul really was glad to see him go I think this trade was EXCELLENT honestly Ricky was not the answer either and Wally is a better fit with Paul. We got rid of useless Blount. Marcus was not going anywhere here and was taking a roster spot, I love the kid but he wasn't gonna get played here. Justin wasn't better than Ryan and they have the same role and honestly Powe is probably gonna be able to be just about as good.


----------



## #1AntoineWalkerFan

also, which i forgot to mention earlier...if you take into consideration that ron artest was available a the time we traded davis that makes it even worse of a trade...throw in al with ricky and co. and we would have had artest...if ricky HAD to go because of attitude or something at least get a player in return that can do more than shoot


----------



## Premier

Pierce and Artest would have been a dynamic combo.

My views on this trade have not changed, though Wally is playing well.


----------



## AMΣRICAN GOD™

Premier said:


> Pierce and Artest would have been a dynamic combo.
> 
> My views on this trade have not changed, though Wally is playing well.


Would you really think two players who need the ball would've worked together? I remember a big thing about the Iverson trade was about how those two couldn't co-exist together, so what makes you think Artest and PP would do well?


----------



## Premier

AMΣRICAN GOD™ said:


> Would you really think two players who need the ball would've worked together? I remember a big thing about the Iverson trade was about how those two couldn't co-exist together, so what makes you think Artest and PP would do well?


Sure, why not? They're both fiercely competitive. Still, I'm not going to speculate.


----------



## E.H. Munro

AM?RICAN GOD™ said:


> Would you really think two players who need the ball would've worked together? I remember a big thing about the Iverson trade was about how those two couldn't co-exist together, so what makes you think Artest and PP would do well?


Did I miss something? This is a .333 team and Wally has been burning up possessions at a rate that would make Ricky green with envy. That and the extra defensive responsibilities are already wearing Pierce down. At least Artest has the stamina to handle the tough assignments at both wing spots and still provide firepower on the offensive end.


On the bright side, our present (not terribly) dynamic duo have us sitting in the catbird seat in the Greg Oden sweepstakes. :yay:


----------



## LX

I'd also like to point out the comment that #1AWFan made about Marcus Banks being better than any PG on our roster currently is absurd.


----------



## #1AntoineWalkerFan

ehmunro said:


> On the bright side, our present (not terribly) dynamic duo have us sitting in the catbird seat in the Greg Oden sweepstakes. :yay:




and the really pathetic part is...we are only 1 game back of the atlantic lead...had we won tonight we would have been tied for first...if danny could just put a HALFWAY decent team on the court for us we'd be in first...sucks huh



LX said:


> I'd also like to point out the comment that #1AWFan made about Marcus Banks being better than any PG on our roster currently is absurd.


when given starters minutes last year in Minn banks put up 12-5-3 on 47% shooting...those are all better than any numbers any of our 3 pgs are putting up now...if you have any proof that my comment is "absurd" id like to see it...at best its argueable between telfair and banks but the numbers favor banks so whats absurd?


----------



## DWest Superstar

> when given starters minutes last year in Minn banks put up 12-5-3 on 47% shooting...those are all better than any numbers any of our 3 pgs are putting up now...if you have any proof that my comment is "absurd" id like to see it...at best its argueable between telfair and banks but the numbers favor banks so whats absurd?


Thats hard for you to defend when you look at how Banks is playing in Pheonix. All 3 of our PGs right now have better stats than Banks. Looks like Pheonix has sadly learned to late.


----------



## #1AntoineWalkerFan

DWest Superstar said:


> Thats hard for you to defend when you look at how Banks is playing in Pheonix. All 3 of our PGs right now have better stats than Banks. Looks like Pheonix has sadly learned to late.




ummmmmm yea if you compare what banks does in 4 minutes to what our pgs do in 24 minutes then yea all 3 of our pgs have better stats...the guy is playing behind steve nash...when he gets 15+ minutes he plays very well...you cant fault him for not bein as good as nash and not getting on the copurt because of it...thats why i used last years stats


----------



## agoo

AMΣRICAN GOD™ said:


> Would you really think two players who need the ball would've worked together? I remember a big thing about the Iverson trade was about how those two couldn't co-exist together, so what makes you think Artest and PP would do well?


Artest needs the ball?

Additionally, Artest would make Pierce a much better player because he wouldn't have to guard the opposition's best 2/3. He could save some energy for the offense.


----------



## DWest Superstar

#1AntoineWalkerFan said:


> ummmmmm yea if you compare what banks does in 4 minutes to what our pgs do in 24 minutes then yea all 3 of our pgs have better stats...the guy is playing behind steve nash...when he gets 15+ minutes he plays very well...you cant fault him for not bein as good as nash and not getting on the copurt because of it...thats why i used last years stats


Not really, if you are to compare Telfair to Banks on per 48. Telgfair is easily having a much better season.


----------



## agoo

Per48 numbers are pretty bad when you're averaging 12 mpg. He's not really in enough to ever get into the flow or have sustained success.


----------



## #1AntoineWalkerFan

DWest Superstar said:


> Not really, if you are to compare Telfair to Banks on per 48. Telgfair is easily having a much better season.



yessssssssss and when u get 4 minutes in a game and get 0 points your per48 is going to be 0 points...give a player more than 4 minutes on the court and the per48 skyrockets...terrible stat to compare...like i said use last season with the wolves as a guideline...is that so hard?? it was just last season and those are real numbers not made up per numbers


----------



## DWest Superstar

#1AntoineWalkerFan said:


> yessssssssss and when u get 4 minutes in a game and get 0 points your per48 is going to be 0 points...give a player more than 4 minutes on the court and the per48 skyrockets...terrible stat to compare...like i said use last season with the wolves as a guideline...is that so hard?? it was just last season and those are real numbers not made up per numbers


A Little O/T but what makes it ok to use last season for Banks when wanting to make a comparison, but it is not ok to use last season for West in a comparison? As we debated in an earlier thread


----------



## #1AntoineWalkerFan

DWest Superstar said:


> A Little O/T but what makes it ok to use last season for Banks when wanting to make a comparison, but it is not ok to use last season for West in a comparison? As we debated in an earlier thread



last yr with minn banks averaged 31 minutes a game...this year hes averaging 12....not because of a drop off in production, but because hes behind steve nash...last yr delonte averaged 35 min per game with good numbers...this year hes averaging 22 minutes a game...not because hes behind anyone whos great...but because his numbers are terrible....33% fg?? ick


----------



## agoo

#1AntoineWalkerFan said:


> last yr with minn banks averaged 31 minutes a game...this year hes averaging 12....not because of a drop off in production, but because hes behind steve nash...last yr delonte averaged 35 min per game with good numbers...this year hes averaging 22 minutes a game...not because hes behind anyone whos great...but because his numbers are terrible....33% fg?? ick


Actually, Delonte and Marcus have both fallen into their proper positions. Third guard and backup point respectively. Marcus would probably be a bit more effective as a change of pace back up to a slower point, but taking notes from Steve Nash probably can't hurt either.


----------



## DWest Superstar

#1AntoineWalkerFan said:


> last yr with minn banks averaged 31 minutes a game...this year hes averaging 12....not because of a drop off in production, but because hes behind steve nash...last yr delonte averaged 35 min per game with good numbers...this year hes averaging 22 minutes a game...not because hes behind anyone whos great...but because his numbers are terrible....33% fg?? ick


No because Doc all of a sudden decided that Delonte is a SG and changed his position. You do realize that Delonte is playing the 2 right?


----------



## agoo

DWest Superstar said:


> No because Doc all of a sudden decided that Delonte is a SG and changed his position. You do realize that Delonte is playing the 2 right?


Was there really a point in time where Delonte was a point guard? I know he played in that position last season, but everyone with a clue knows that Delonte is a third guard.


----------



## DWest Superstar

agoo101284 said:


> Was there really a point in time where Delonte was a point guard? I know he played in that position last season, but everyone with a clue knows that Delonte is a third guard.


Funny thing is that he was more efficient than 60% of the starting PGs in the league last year.


----------



## Causeway

Telfair's play does not make me miss Banks one bit.

And Wally's play - and his positive effect especially on Pierce - does not make me miss Davis at all.


----------



## #1AntoineWalkerFan

Causeway said:


> Telfair's play does not make me miss Banks one bit.
> 
> And Wally's play - and his positive effect especially on Pierce - does not make me miss Davis at all.




knowing that we could have had artest makes me despise wally being here, not saying id rather keep davis....but there were better options than wally


and we gave up a number 7 pick for telfair (i know there was more but that was essentially the deal)...whats better banks and a number 7 or telfair?? telfair hasnt proven to me he was worth a high lottery pick


----------



## Causeway

Telfair is certainly worth a high pick in this past draft. He's 21. You are telling me if we drafted him this year we would not be thrilled with what we have see so far?

Where was it said we could of had Artest over Wally (serious question)? I know he was available - but we had a real shot at Artest? Please explain.


----------



## #1AntoineWalkerFan

Causeway said:


> Telfair is certainly worth a high pick in this past draft. He's 21. You are telling me if we drafted him this year we would not be thrilled with what we have see so far?
> 
> Where was it said we could of had Artest over Wally (serious question)? I know he was available - but we had a real shot at Artest? Please explain.




if telfair was a rookie id be thrilled...its his 3rd year in the pros...he should be farther along than a rookie...



and the pacers gave up artest for peja...to me its common sense that if we offered ricky, big al, banks and reed or something like that we could have gotten artest...thats much better than just peja


----------



## Causeway

#1AntoineWalkerFan said:


> if telfair was a rookie id be thrilled...its his 3rd year in the pros...he should be farther along than a rookie...


For a PG he's progressing very well. The most obvious example of a guy who took at least a few seasons at PG to get going is Billups. Not that Telfair is or will necessarily be that good - but the point is it can take a little while. Anyway, I think it was worth it.



#1AntoineWalkerFan said:


> and the pacers gave up artest for peja...to me its common sense that if we offered ricky, big al, banks and reed or something like that we could have gotten artest...thats much better than just peja


It's never that simple. For starters Artest almost killed the deal to the Kings - you think he'd of gone to Boston so easily? I'd have to imagine that Ainge is at least smart enough to know Artest was available and did what he could. Either way, contracts aside, I am happy with Wally over Ricky in every way.


----------



## E.H. Munro

#1AntoineWalkerFan said:


> if telfair was a rookie id be thrilled...its his 3rd year in the pros...he should be farther along than a rookie...


Given the play of Gay and Roy the deal looks horrible from a talent standpoint. However, the purpose of the deal was financial, Ainge had to lose the last year of Szczerbiak or Lafrentz if he wanted to keep Pierce. As Pierce is the only thing between Boston and the 1973 76ers, Ainge bit the bullet. If there's blame, put it where it belongs, with the cheapskates that bought the team and have done their level-headed best to turn it into a laughingstock.



#1AntoineWalkerFan said:


> and the pacers gave up artest for peja...to me its common sense that if we offered ricky, big al, banks and reed or something like that we could have gotten artest...thats much better than just peja


The rumour was that Ainge was offering Davis and Banks but that Bird wanted Al Jefferson in any Artest trade. Danny dropped the ball there, he should have bit the bullet and brought in Artest to be the team's shutdown defender.


----------



## #1AntoineWalkerFan

Causeway said:


> I'd have to imagine that Ainge is at least smart enough to know Artest was available and did what he could.




thats a BIG if :lol:


----------



## DWest Superstar

#1AntoineWalkerFan said:


> thats a BIG if :lol:


I definitely didn't see the word "if" in his statement


----------



## #1AntoineWalkerFan

DWest Superstar said:


> I definitely didn't see the word "if" in his statement




no comment...


----------



## Causeway

#1AntoineWalkerFan said:


> thats a BIG if :lol:


Maybe. However let's not forget that Artests value at the time was not as high as his talent. He had recently come off a 70-something game suspension (plus playoffs) for one of the uglier moments in NBA history. After Indy welcomed him back he asked out. There's a reason the Kings got him for "only Peja" at the time.


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## Floods

Causeway said:


> Telfair's play does not make me miss Banks one bit.
> 
> And Wally's play - and his positive effect especially on Pierce - does not make me miss Davis at all.


Wally makes me long for the Ricky days.


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## Causeway

TheBigDonut said:


> Wally makes me long for the Ricky days.


ok. why?


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## Floods

Because Wally makes the team worse. He can't do anything outside of hit a jump shot, and he's only moderately useful when it's falling IMO.


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## LX

TheBigDonut said:


> Because Wally makes the team worse. He can't do anything outside of hit a jump shot, and he's only moderately useful when it's falling IMO.


Have you even watched a game this season?


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## Floods

Yes.

If the league just went by stats and not by players who helped their teams win, Stephon Marbury would be a champion. Bottom line, Szczerbiak is completely useless if his shot isn't falling, and I know he's averaging like 18 a game, but he can't do **** outside of scoring. Not to mention he's a terrible defender.


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## Causeway

TheBigDonut said:


> Because Wally makes the team worse. He can't do anything outside of hit a jump shot, and he's only moderately useful when it's falling IMO.


It's simply not correct to say that Wally makes our team worse.


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## Floods

Alright then, i'll use an example. 

First off, I know we lost the game, but my point is - the Cleveland game, we were without Wally, and absolutely dominated the Cavs for the first half and the third quarter. Who are a good team. Wally gets in the way. And we still would have lost the game if Wally did play, because his defense (lack there of) on whoever he would have defended (LeBron, Pavlovic, ick...), would have been ****ty.


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## E.H. Munro

LX said:


> Have you even watched a game this season?


Have you been watching Pierce wear out from having to carry the offense while guarding the other team's best wing scorer night in and night out? There are nights that P-2 looks like he's running through wet cement.


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## LX

ehmunro said:


> Have you been watching Pierce wear out from having to carry the offense while guarding the other team's best wing scorer night in and night out? There are nights that P-2 looks like he's running through wet cement.


And your point being? 

Ricky wasn't much of a help on the defensive end either. Half the time he didn't even put in any effort on the defensive end. Wally is the better compliment to Pierce right now. Obviously, not defensively, but then when have the Celtics preached defense under Doc Rivers?


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## Causeway

LX said:


> And your point being?
> 
> Ricky wasn't much of a help on the defensive end either. Half the time he didn't even put in any effort on the defensive end. Wally is the better compliment to Pierce right now. Obviously, not defensively, but then when have the Celtics preached defense under Doc Rivers?


Exactly. I do not see how Wally makes us worse than when we had Ricky in his spot. And agreed that Wally is the better compliment to Pierce right now.


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## E.H. Munro

LX said:


> Ricky wasn't much of a help on the defensive end either. Half the time he didn't even put in any effort on the defensive end.


Except that Davis did the defensive heavy lifting (regardless of how well he did it) so that Pierce was free to concentrate on the offensive end.



LX said:


> Wally is the better compliment to Pierce right now. Obviously, not defensively, but then when have the Celtics preached defense under Doc Rivers?


Except that being forced to do the defensive heavy lifting is wearing Pierce out. Something compounded by his stretches at the 4 this year. Regardless of whether or not Doc Rivers stresses defense, the _fact_ is that they needed to move Davis for someone like Artest, who would make Pierce's life easier. Szczerbiak's made it harder, because now Pierce has to carry the Celtics on both ends of the floor. I already posted the breakdown from last year pre and post trade that showed that there wasn't a whole of difference, statistically speaking, between his performance with Davis and Szczerbiak.


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## Floods

LX said:


> And your point being?
> 
> Ricky wasn't much of a help on the defensive end either. Half the time he didn't even put in any effort on the defensive end. Wally is the better compliment to Pierce right now. Obviously, not defensively, but then when have the Celtics preached defense under Doc Rivers?


Ricky is a lot quicker than Wally and doesn't wear out as easily. And he was a better defender and second option to Pierce.


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan

Causeway said:


> Exactly. I do not see how Wally makes us worse than when we had Ricky in his spot. And agreed that Wally is the better compliment to Pierce right now.




i think the point thats attempting to be made is yea maybe wally is a better compliment to pierce right now but hes not the best compliment that he could have had...its like saying if i give you 5 dollars for your 1 dollar or someone else gives you 100 dollars for your one dollar...sure 5 is better than one but which one would u rather have 5 or 100?


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## Causeway

#1AntoineWalkerFan said:


> i think the point thats attempting to be made is yea maybe wally is a better compliment to pierce right now but hes not the best compliment that he could have had...its like saying if i give you 5 dollars for your 1 dollar or someone else gives you 100 dollars for your one dollar...sure 5 is better than one but which one would u rather have 5 or 100?


You are fixating on Artest as a reason to not be happy with Wally's production. Yes I would rather have Artest. I am not convinced we had a legit shot at him coming here though. And people in this thread are saying Ricky is a better option than Wally for us. I don't agree.


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