# The Official Nets @ Raptors game thread- 10.29.03



## Aurelino (Jul 25, 2003)

<center>







*New Jersey Nets* *vs* *Toronto** Raptors*









*10/29/03, 8:00 PM EST
Air Canada Center, Toronto * 
</center>

The 2003-04 Toronto Raptors have looked a much improved side under Kevin O'Neil already. The team has been involved in much better ball-movement, extra passing , defense and overall team play compared to last season. The way they played in the preseason indicated that they might spring a few surprises this season. The Raptors have a tough first month coming up, in which they play the Nets twice. The season opener might be a good opportunity for them to steal a game since the Nets might miss Kenyon Martin and Luscious Harris will, in all likelyhood, sit out the game. 

*Strengths*

* (1)A Healthy team:* This will probably the most important factor in the Raptors success. Vince Carter is easily one of the the top 10 players in the league when healthy and he can carry this team on his shoulders. They almost reached the eastern conference finals in 2001. Apart from Vince (unlike last year when Murray was injured), there have been no real injuries which is a big plus for the Raptors. Murray has already made a big impact in preseason.

*(2)Playing as a team*: The new-look Raptors have played team ball so far. There's a renewed sense of belonging to a team. The players are sharing the ball a lot and trying to get off the best shot possible. This new attitude under the guidence of Kevin O'Neil is what has made this team different from the one last year.

*(3)Arrival of new talent:* This year, Vince has a decent support cast. The rookie Bosh has shown a lot of promise and others like Curry, Bateer and Moiso are also beginning to contribute. 

*Weaknesses* 

*(1) * Vince Carter can have bad shooting nights. In which case the offense lacks the bite. (Even in the preseason, he shot 3/13 against the T'Wolves and 4/15 against the Wizards). He also needs to be able to go to the line more often, for a player of his skills and athleticism. 

*(2)* The overall shooting is not as consistent as Kevin O'Neil would like. Murray, Moiso, Williams, all are not very consistent shooters.

*(3)* The center spot is weaker offensively. Teams like Nets who have a lot of depth at that position, would take advantage of the offensive mismatches at this position.

*The Starting Five*

*Antonio Davis:* There has been a lot of talk about his selling his house in Toronto and his desire to be traded before this season. He would like to put that behind him and contribute to the team's chances of getting a playoff berth especially when Vince is healthy and they have a decent overall talent. Davis is a solid post-player and rebounder and his battle with Zo could be one of the most intriguing aspects of the game. The matchup should be very competitve. Davis has more of an offensive game but Zo is an intimidating presence on defense and has the ability to go to the foul line a lot.

*Chris Bosh: *The rookie has already given the fans reason to be excited about him and if Martin sits out for the Nets, Bosh has a good chance of starting in his debut game. So far, the #4 draft pick has impressed everyone with his play in the preseason. He runs well and finishes strong on the break, has a nice inside game and can block shots. He also had some explosive dunks during the preseason. What I specially like about him is his poise on the court. He seems to have a very good understanding of the game and is very calm and unflustered. He also knows the offense and what is expected of him. The Nets are one of the top defensive teams in the league and the rookie will be tested in his first game. He should get a taste of what its like to play against a top team although he will have an easier time against the less-athletic and less offensively-equipped Jason Collins (if he starts that is). 

*Michael Curry:* He is a seasonned veteran who is a leader both on and off court. In fact, he was voted by the NBA GMs as the best locker-room leader. His job will be to get the team off to a good start and then hand it over to Murray. He may not put big numbers but he provides reliability to the frontcourt. I expect RJ to win the matchup with him but Curry is a team player and will do whatever it takes.

*Vince Carter:* He is healthy and ready to take over. We saw glimpses of his good form when he sizzled in the preseason against Pistons, Nets and the Bulls. Having played in the olympic qualifiers during the summer, he is in excellent shape for the season. He clearly dominates the matchup against Kittles and this is what the Raptors would like to take advantage of. Vince would also like to make an early statement that he is back and means business this season. 

*Alvin Williams:* He did not play too well in the preseason and the pressure will be on him to keep his starting spot since back-up point guard Milt Palacio has distinguished himself as a more than serviceable player. Jason Kidd is the best point guard in the league and Williams will have to work hard to keep up with Kidd. Possibly the strateggy could be to bring Palacio off the bench early in the first quarter simply because he has got his confidence going right now. 

*Key Bench players*

*Lamond Murray * can play ball! Last year was injury-ridden and ironically he tore a ligament in his foot in a preseason game against the Nets in 2002. This year, he has burst on the scene as a second go-to guy for the Raps , behind Carter. In short, Murray can do it all. He can hit the outside shot, can create opportunities around the basket, has good handles and can beat the defense on the dribble. He looks to me to be a lesser version of Paul Pierce. The Nets have an able defender in Jefferson at SF and it will be a very interesting matchup if Murray goes up against RJ who relies on his superior athleticism while Murray has a better overall game.

The Raptors have a decent back-up guard in * Milt Palacio* who did really well in the preseason, averaging 10.5 ppg. 2.25 apg. It will be interesting to see how the 6-7 Zoran Planinic, the Nets rookie from Croatia, plays against a smaller guard. 

Last season, in the absense of Carter, there were streches where *Morris Peterson* carried the Raptors on his own. With the arrival of new talent, he has taken a secondary role but he will contribute, when on the court.

In the absence of Lucious Harris, the Raptors bench is close in strength to the Nets bench. 

*The X-factor* 

Jerome Moiso, who reminds me very much of Keon Clark, has some explosive moves close to the basket and is a good rebounder. He has been rather inconsistent so far and may already have lost his starting spot to Bosh. I saw Moiso in the playoffs against Philadelphia and this guy came from nowhere to make a run all by himself. He has the skills and the Raps will be hoping he delivers.

*Verdict*

If both Kenyon Martin and Lucious Harris sit out, it should be a close game. I predict a 90-87 victory for the Nets but things could change if Kenyon becomes available.

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*The Nets game thread started by SkywalkerAC* 

*The avatar-and-sig event*


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Aurelino</b>!
> If both Kenyon Martin and Lucious Harris sit out, it should be a close game. I predict a 90-87 victory for the Nets but things could change if Kenyon becomes available.


how would things change with Martin becoming available? you mean we'll lose by more points?


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## Aurelino (Jul 25, 2003)

*Re: Re: The Official Nets @ Raptors game thread- 10.29.03*



> Originally posted by <b>trick</b>!
> 
> 
> how would things change with Martin becoming available? you mean we'll lose by more points?


Ok let me rephrase it. What I meant was that Martin's presence might change a few things like the starting PF matchups and who Bosh goes up against. Also, that will allow Aaron Williams to play at his more familiar C position and won't expose Jason Collins' limited offensive skills. Also, with Martin in the mix, the Nets are close to full strength--the team that (without Zo and the backup point Zoran) swept Detroit and Boston in the playoffs last season. So the bottomline of my statements above is the following: The raptors can steal the game with Martin playing as well but the chances of their doing it without KMart are much higher.


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

overall, i think we have a chance of stealing this game. last season, we've handled NJ pretty well considering our lackluster efforts nor our unorganized rotations.

i wouldn't be surprised if we win this game, though i'm hoping we might, in order to get a positive start on the season with the hectic first ten games we've had.


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## MadFishX (Jun 28, 2003)

who wants to be ma partner for this avatar bet thing


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## Aurelino (Jul 25, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>MadFishX</b>!
> who wants to be ma partner for this avatar bet thing


Since only Tom is left single, you can pair-up with him!!


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## MadFishX (Jun 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Aurelino</b>!
> 
> 
> Since only Tom is left single, you can pair-up with him!!



aite aite..so can u tell me all the pairings..im jus curious to know


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## Aurelino (Jul 25, 2003)

only 3 other pairings.

Me- Speedythief

Bizzy- SkywalkerAC

Petey- Budweiser_Boy


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

Nice post, Aurelino.

But whats this avatar bet thing?


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## Rawker (Jun 23, 2003)

> In the absence of Lucious Harris, the Raptors bench is close in strength to the Nets bench


:laugh:


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## Slasher (Jul 11, 2003)

Ahhh this is such a great idea.


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## Aurelino (Jul 25, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>hellbot</b>!
> Nice post, Aurelino.
> 
> But whats this avatar bet thing?


Thanks, the avatar bets thread is here.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

Great preview, Aurelino.
I think this is the home opener I have looked forward to the most since becoming a Raptors fan way back in the Mighty Mouse days.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

only 15 more hours till tip off. man i'm pumped for this game.

we've been through the hard times. now it's time to win. one year of losing and we picked up a franchise player in bosh. right now he's the best big man in his draft class. 

kenyon will probably be in the starting lineup but has a bum right thumb. bosh may be able to sag back a bit on defense, denying penetration, if martin's shot isn't looking good. bosh will now have a very good defender on him, let's see if bosh can respond will intelligent play. i'm VERY curious to see if bosh starts. i might bring him off the bench and test out how long Scott wants play Kenyon, especially if his shot isn't going down with Moiso protecting against the drive.

attack the basket and play tough. VC needs to establish himself with the officials from day one. he needs to embelish contact more than just fading away. keep on shooting- i don't think Scott's double teams will come quickly enough against the new raptor offense. Vince will often be the first man back on defense when he's shooting to prevent the jersey break; when he takes it in he will look to finish and get to the line. 

AD's going to have a strong game. I expect him to be more productive than Zo. his rebounding is essential to winning this game.


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## Aurelino (Jul 25, 2003)

I am also looking forward to JYD-Martin matchup. apparently, they had words during the preseason game and have been tangled up before as well. 


Do drop by the Nets forum to follow up on the game thread. Thanks.


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

no one wants to pair up with me


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>trick</b>!
> no one wants to pair up with me


go to the nets' thread and see if there are any takers. you don't have to be a supporting member to participate.


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## Dathomieyouhate (Jun 21, 2003)

I can't wait till the game starts... we've been waiting months for some REAL basketball!!



AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH


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## Aurelino (Jul 25, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Dathomieyouhate</b>!
> I can't wait till the game starts... we've been waiting months for some REAL basketball!!
> 
> 
> ...


Me neither! Just 35 minutes now for the tip off. Wish you Raps fans good luck with the game :greatjob: 

Hope to see Bosh start.


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## Aurelino (Jul 25, 2003)

Bosh on the court! so is Murray and Palacio.

Let's see what happens!


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

OH MY GOODNESS! a little playground style magic from lammond to milt!


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

and calling all refs...if you don't stop pocketing your whistles when vince is driving some castrations might be in order.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

**** that would have been an awesome alleyoop.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

i'm loving bosh and murray on the court together. and i LOVE milt off the bench.


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## Aurelino (Jul 25, 2003)

Palacio is doing great! Bosh looking good too.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

JYD is having an impact on the game. that lob to martin (sick) wasn't his fault. back to vince for the offense- let him create for a while. lammond has great skill with the ball but he needs to be creating for vince just a little more.


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## Rawker (Jun 23, 2003)

PETERSON AT THE BUZZER!!!!! ..... nope


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## MadFishX (Jun 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>SkywalkerAC</b>!
> JYD is having an impact on the game. that lob to martin (sick) wasn't his fault. back to vince for the offense- let him create for a while. lammond has great skill with the ball but he needs to be creating for vince just a little more.


my first half observations:

1. murray seems really self-fish...
2. carter was FLYING in the (almost) alley-oop, and that lay up that beat the shot clock buzzer
3. palacio lookin great, seems like a great pick up
4. where's moiso
5. hope chuck gets betta soon, sounds awful
6. on post up, the defence has a bit of trouble, prolly cuz of the size difference
7. carter is not gettin the calls
8. JYD looking good too, he made one defensive mistake, when he tried to steal the ball, and kenyon spun around him and got fouled
9.mopete is not impressin me
and 10. I WANNA SEE A DUNK


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## MadFishX (Jun 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Rawker</b>!
> PETERSON AT THE BUZZER!!!!! ..... nope



LOL show of hands,..who knew that he was goin to miss that shot?


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## Aurelino (Jul 25, 2003)

That's what I am wondering. Where is Moiso? I hope they don't think he is garbage time material, because he is not.

JYD is pounding the boards. 

Zo being more effective than one would have thought.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

the raps got off to a good start, going through vince on every possession. they went away from that a bit with kittles playing very tight D. vince needs to keep taking it to the basket, down their thoats for the rest of the game. he'll get to the line sooner or later. 

the second unit performed as advertised. bosh is nice and active and didn't give up after being pushed to his butt on a couple of plays. 

kenyon is a beast and it doesn't look like kidd has even turned it on yet. the raps are going to have to play a LOT better to pull the game out.


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## Aurelino (Jul 25, 2003)

Raps making a run. Carter is carrying the team.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

fourth quarter time for VC. he's established his agressiveness and the refs will get him to the line, they owe him a call from the end of the quarter and he'll take it from them. 

like the boys were saying, our energy really dropped for a while there but VC has brought it back to the ACC. 

GO RAPTORS!


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## jdg (Jun 13, 2003)

VC is taking over! I'm proud!


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## Bigballershotcaller (Apr 25, 2003)

ya we won !!!! vince just sent a message to the rest of the league


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## Vinsanity (May 28, 2002)

great game by carter!


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## Mattsanity (Jun 8, 2003)

Vince scored 39 points, and could of gotten 43 if Alvin Williams didn't receive the inbound pass and making the final 4 free throws. He grabbed 5 rebounds and only 1 assist? i would be dissapointed if vince averaged 1 assist per game even if he averaged 30 ppg.


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## Aurelino (Jul 25, 2003)

congratulations guys! Vince made Raps proud. Terrific performance against the defending east champs. Way to go!
39 points is huge anyday against anyone but to do it in the season opener and send out a message to the league that he means business, is great.

:applause:


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

WOOHOO!!!!!!!! RAPS WIN!!!!!! RAPS WIN!!!!!! RAPS WWWWWWWIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

VINCE IS GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




And he only had one assist if the rest of the team could HIT A SHOT!!! But all in all, GREAT GAME! GREAT JOB VC!! GREAT JOB BOSH!!! GREAT JOB EVERYBODY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LETS GO RAPTORS!!!!!!!!!!!


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>trick</b>!
> 
> overall, i think we have a chance of stealing this game. last season, we've handled NJ pretty well considering our lackluster efforts nor our unorganized rotations.
> 
> i wouldn't be surprised if we win this game, though i'm hoping we might, in order to get a positive start on the season with the hectic first ten games we've had.


lo and behold what i've posted in the first page


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>SkywalkerAC</b>!
> fourth quarter time for VC. he's established his agressiveness and the refs will get him to the line, they owe him a call from the end of the quarter and he'll take it from them.
> 
> like the boys were saying, our energy really dropped for a while there but VC has brought it back to the ACC.
> ...


in the 3rd quarter Michael Curry said to Carter in a huddle:


> Originally said by *Vince Carter*!
> it's time to take over


:yes: :yes: :yes:


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

Vince leads us to our first victory of the season. Vince is back, just like we knew he would be.


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## Rawker (Jun 23, 2003)

Vince looked great in the 2nd half, in the first half he seemed very causious as if he was still worried about his injury but man in the second half he was on fire.

Adub looked hurt, he didn't have his legs at all, good thing you don't need them to shoot free throws.

bosh was impressive but he doesn't have polished foot work, once he works on that he's going to be dangerous. he understands what's going on on the court and where he is supposed to be but he seemed a little slow or tentative so he was late alot of the time. 

curry was ok, he hit a few shots and really impressed me on offense with his quickness but time will tell if he's consistant. 

murray is an all star in my opinion, in like a month once he get's his flow he is going to be contributing, him and vince on the floor at the same time is going to be very hard to defend.

AD was AD, a warrior, that charge he drew on kmart was classic AD. we honestly "need" him.

Milt looked very good, he's got some game but he isn't confident in his shot at all, at least not in the 2nd half when he passed up a few open looks. he had a sweet finish but with the net's defense and how they always collapse the lane it was hard for him.

JYD was JYD, charlie hustle, he did do some classic JYD material like shooting a long jumper but whatever he deserves it. his defense was sooooo good that it's not funny.

mop was mop, forcing everything.

KO is going to be very very entertaining in the playoffs, i don't like his crazy out of control subs but whatever he's gotta figure out what works and he might as well do it now and asap as opposed to the wilkens way over 20 games.

I feel really bad for Chuck, he needs some hot lemon tea and some sleep. i think jack should have filled in.


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## sammysamosa (Mar 10, 2003)

*Wooooo Hooooooo*

man that was an awesome proformance by the raptors...vince had some fire burning...and god if he wasn't fouled on that huge dunk attemp when he went straight down the middle, the roof woulda come off the place...i think the fans helped the raps get soem good momentum going...D was good...vince didn't look very good in the first half on D, but he picked it up in the second on both ends of the court...i predict raps finish 4th in the east...and go to the eastern conference finals...


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

i was as pissed as KO when KMart was left wide open for that 3


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## sammysamosa (Mar 10, 2003)

i don't think it was KO's fault i think it was a blown coverage...who cares we jus beat a healthy defending eastern conference champions


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>trick</b>!
> i was as pissed as KO when KMart was left wide open for that 3


Yeah, but as we all know, AD doesn't like guarding players all the way out to the arc...

But AD had a good game. He was important in shutting-down Zo and Collins, and made some big rebounds.

JYD looks like a starter again. But with Bosh right behind, it could get interesting.

Mo looked great on D, poor on O, just like last year... He missed some easy open 3s and was out of sync on O all night... He'd better get some confidence back or he'll be slappin' butts along side Rick Brunson all year.


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>sammysamosa</b>!
> i don't think it was KO's fault i think it was a blown coverage...who cares we jus beat a healthy defending eastern conference champions


i didn't say it was KO's fault. it was cleaerly poor communication in that part.


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>speedythief</b>!
> Mo looked great on D, poor on O, just like last year... He missed some easy open 3s and was out of sync on O all night... He'd better get some confidence back or he'll be slappin' butts along side Rick Brunson all year.


nice choice of logic there :laugh:

and yes. i was even rooting for Mo Pete to get a couple of basket in.


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

though JYD was a killer on the glass, KMart completely outdueled him. i wouldn't even think we'd win if KMart wasn't in foul trouble. 

at time like those, i'd put Moiso on the floor.


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

oh yeah, AD's handles still sucks


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## djmyte (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>trick</b>!
> oh yeah, AD's handles still sucks


Can't resist....

Stonio Davis rises again. He really does have bad hands. He did rebound well tonite though, so I will give him some props.

BTW, those 3rd jerseys are PIMPIN!


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## Slasher (Jul 11, 2003)

Trick -- stop posting over and over. How about you make one post longer instead of posting three times in less than five minutes on the same topic? 

Aurelino -- that avatar is amazing!


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## Aurelino (Jul 25, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Slasher</b>!
> Aurelino -- that avatar is amazing!



Thanks. The circle is complete, however. You beat us, we beat the wolves and the wolves beat you. Atleast I have some satisfaction.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Aurelino</b>!
> Thanks. The circle is complete, however. You beat us, we beat the wolves and the wolves beat you. Atleast I have some satisfaction.


Raptors beat Nets.
Nets beat Wolves.
Wolves beat Raptors.

It's like rock-paper-scissors... my tiny brain hurts.


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