# False "Childress for Calderon" rumour



## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

...according to Pete Vescey, who has never reported anything but a done deal. And we're talking about Atlanta's _other_ lottery pick (11th).

Calderon, Graham, and future considerations to Atlanta;
Childress, filler, and the 11th pick to Toronto;

I can see Toronto asking for Smith in lieu of that package, but Atlanta might not bite.

Who would you pick with the 11th selection?

Ford
Parker/Jackson/Dixon
Childress/Garbajosa
Bosh/Humphries
Bargnani/Nesterovic


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## osman (Jul 29, 2003)

*Re: The Hawks want Calderon, offering lottery pick...*

Brewer, or Green. If they're gone Julian Wright, Al Thornton, Thaddeus Young, and bring over Ukic to be a the backup PG. But I would hate to see Calderon gone.


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

*Re: The Hawks want Calderon, offering lottery pick...*

Ehhh, I don't know about that deal (if it were just Jose for #11)..

We'd need Marvin Williams, Josh Smith, or the #3 pick in return for Jose.. the #11 pick simply just isn't worth a starting pass first point guard.

So, I don't see Colangelo biting unless they add one of the three things I mentioned or really spice up the first deal.


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## Flush (Jul 25, 2005)

*Re: The Hawks want Calderon, offering lottery pick...*

I'm reluctant to get rid of Jose. He's the Ying to TJ's Yang. 

But that is a pretty sexy offer. Would Atlanta really pull the trigger?

Haven't paid much attention to the draft. Who could BC grab at 11?


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

*Re: The Hawks want Calderon, offering lottery pick...*

Wow I can see Bryan totally getting the cream out of this... AM EXCITED..

In BC I trust...


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

*Re: The Hawks want Calderon, offering lottery pick...*

I wouldn't do it if I was BC I would keep ford/Jose together at all cost


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## Junkyard Dog13 (Aug 9, 2003)

*Re: The Hawks want Calderon, offering lottery pick...*

pass.


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## rdlviper (May 24, 2006)

*Re: The Hawks want Calderon, offering lottery pick...*

That offer is too tempting. I like Jose, but he is still just our backup.... the chance to get a starter and a #11 pick in one of the deepest drafts..... pull the trigger. Bring over Ukic to backup Ford. I like Calderon, but our starting 5 have to be our best 5 players.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

*Re: The Hawks want Calderon, offering lottery pick...*

I have mulled over the original trade and decided I would take it...

Jose for 11th and Childress is excellent value... And I believe in BC getting the correct backup PG..

Any coincidence that Theo The Greek Guy has just declared he will come across to the Nba?? I think not.

Still, In BC I trust..


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## crimedog (Jun 3, 2003)

*Re: The Hawks want Calderon, offering lottery pick...*

nooo...i can't stand the thought of jose on another team. 

that is a honey of an offer, but i can't stand the thought of losing calderon.


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## Flush (Jul 25, 2005)

*Re: The Hawks want Calderon, offering lottery pick...*

Also thought about this a little over the past hour.

I like it...a lot.

If BC pulls the trigger, he has a backup PG in mind. Like Porn player said Papaloukas has indicated he's likely coming over. An IDEAL candidate. He's 6'7" PG with a ton of international experience. Probably worth a good chunk of the MLE. 

Childress is an IDEAL fit. He's an athletic/long wing player with an insane basketball IQ. He defends, rebounds and passes. Shoots a high (albeit inconsistent) FG%. He won't demand the ball and can score in bunches. 

If there is value at the 11th pick this is very good value for calderon. I love the kid but I anticipate that he's peaked as an NBA player.


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

*Re: The Hawks want Calderon, offering lottery pick...*

Childress...lottery pick in a deep draft...can this get any better?

Wait, can we get Josh instead if we replace Ford for Calderon?

:yay:


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

*Re: The Hawks want Calderon, offering lottery pick...*

Am off to sleep the buzz has kept me awake analysing the draft around the 11th pick untill 2 am so I shall be back in the morning to hopefully see some interesting discussion or a trigger having been pulled.

Thanks for breaking this Speedy


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## frank_white (Apr 20, 2005)

*Re: The Hawks want Calderon, offering lottery pick...*

julian wright could end up as good as josh smith imo. but he's a project, and would not help us win right away.

I do this trade if the Hawks give us Marvin Williams and if the guy we want is there on draft day at 11.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

*Re: The Hawks want Calderon, offering lottery pick...*

Here is a highly unpopular way of looking at it:

We sign a virtual unknown from overseas to a small contract, let him blossom, then flip him before we have to pay him a big contract; in return we get two lottery picks and filler.

The return on investment is enormous.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

*Re: The Hawks want Calderon, offering lottery pick...*

That's a good offer. There are 4-5 decent sf in the draft, we can get one of them. Along with Childress solves our problems on the perimeter. I wouldn't mind getting Anthony Johnson as a filler for this trade. Johnson is a decent backup for Ford and has an expiring contract just long enough for Ukic to learn the ropes.


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

*Re: The Hawks want Calderon, offering lottery pick...*

Has Vecsey ever been right about anything?

I am sure that the Hawks are going to try to trade for a point guard,but they can make a better deal than that.Only way I'd believe that is if the future considerations are a first round draft pick next year.


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## DrFunk3385 (May 2, 2005)

*Re: The Hawks want Calderon, offering lottery pick...*

I don't understand all the excitement over Childress.

Might just be me, but I have about 0 interest in that offer

Give me Smith and the 11, and then we'll talk


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

*Re: The Hawks want Calderon, offering lottery pick...*

asking for Smith and the #11 is just over. I don't even think the Hawks will do Calderon for Smith straight up. The Hawks are really high on Smith and feels like he will be a future allstar.


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## dtron (Jun 11, 2004)

*Re: The Hawks want Calderon, offering lottery pick...*

yeah i dont think i like this, even with the draft being well stacked this year i dont think the number 11 pick is worth giving up a good pg like jose


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## NeoSamurai (Jan 16, 2003)

*Re: The Hawks want Calderon, offering lottery pick...*

i'd do it, but i'd prefer to switch TJ for Jose for the fact that i like Jose's size better since he fits the physical mould of an NBA PG better than TJ while being on par virtually in every other category outside of end to end speed and potential ceiling...plus, im not a big fan of TJ's contract at 8 mil per season....we could save 2 or 3 mil with the contract that we'd extend to Jose either this offseason or the next....

with that said, i'd still make the deal if we land the 11th pick and Childress, we grab the much needed SG/SF that we desperately need plus a depth player in the 11th pick who could bud into a star in this league....plus, you can find a quality PG who can give you 20 mins per night, who can play solid defense and distribute the ball...i'd trust BC and Maurizio to find the player that could fill that possible PG void from Europe like Theo Papaloukas (which is why i think moving TJ would be better than moving Jose since it'd show to Theo that we are committed to maintain our Euro talents) or Ukic...

with the 11th, BC in his career has shown an ability to find outstanding talents with picks around that area of the draft like Michael Finley, Marion, and Amare...so really the pick and Childress would more than make up for the loss of talent for Jose...


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## Junkyard Dog13 (Aug 9, 2003)

*Re: The Hawks want Calderon, offering lottery pick...*

only Josh Smith or Marvin Williams could make a immediate impact a guy at ur drafting a project.
So I'll pass.


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## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

*Re: The Hawks want Calderon, offering lottery pick...*

This trade is not going to happen, and Childress + #11 is too much for Jose.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

*Re: The Hawks want Calderon, offering lottery pick...*

Trading TJ would be pretty tricky considering his contract status, I don't think it will happen--plus I think BC showing a commitment to Bosh plays into that. It would be hard to crack that egg already.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

*Re: The Hawks want Calderon, offering lottery pick...*

Well, from the Hawks standpoint, if they don't take Conley at 3, which they shouldn't as it is reaching, it's likely that Conley would be gone at 11. Aside from the draft, there really isn't a better point guard than Calderon out there that the Hawks could get with Childress and #11. Even Conley isn't the sure thing to be honest, his stock is high partially due to the lack of PG in the draft. The Hawks could always trade up to the 6-10 spots to ensure that they do get Conley, that would probably be a better trade for the Hawks.

I would be surprised if the Hawks don't end up with a significant upgrade at point guard, and it will not surprise me if they give up too much during the process considering their log jam at SF. There is a lot at stake for the Hawks as they are looking at another losing season if they end up starting Lue, Anthony Johnson, and Speedy Claxton next year at the point.


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## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

*Re: The Hawks want Calderon, offering lottery pick...*

I would definately deal the #11 for a veteran point guard, but I don't like the idea of Childress as merely a throw-in. I keep telling people on here he is a very under-rated player, much better than Boris Diaw in my mind who had a really good year two years ago with Phoenix.


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## o.iatlhawksfan (Mar 3, 2006)

*Re: The Hawks want Calderon, offering lottery pick...*



frank_white said:


> julian wright could end up as good as josh smith imo. but he's a project, and would not help us win right away.
> 
> I do this trade if the Hawks give us Marvin Williams and if the guy we want is there on draft day at 11.



Josh Smith, Marvin Williams are not avaliable, I don't see why thats to hard to understand with people. Hawks won't even give J Smith to the Grizz for gasol, why would they do it for Caldron. Obviously Conlanglo sees something in Childress all of us hawks fan do. He can easily come in and be almost or just as good as Deng or Iggy. He's also a lockdown defender. Still I don't think it will happen, but Billy Knight said he was trying to move both picks so, I wouldn't be suprised if happens.


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## RX (May 24, 2006)

*Re: The Hawks want Calderon, offering lottery pick...*

Childress + 11 + garbage for *Calderon* + *Graham* + filler?...that is NOT a fair trade....

Childress + WHOEVER you get at 11 is nowhere near the value of both Calderon and Graham to this team...

For the record...not underating Childress..its just that good Wing players are a dime a dozen vs Good starting caliber PGs

Would have to be Josh Smith or Marvin Williams + #11... OR Childress + #3 to make any kinda sense...

I don't see the hype for everyone in this draft...beyond the top 4-5 prospects there isn't anyone I'm big on...the Raps *Don't need to get any younger!*


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## o.iatlhawksfan (Mar 3, 2006)

*Re: The Hawks want Calderon, offering lottery pick...*



RX said:


> Childress + 11 + garbage for *Calderon* + *Graham* + filler?...that is NOT a fair trade....
> 
> Childress + WHOEVER you get at 11 is nowhere near the value of both Calderon and Graham to this team...
> 
> ...



LOL!!! Josh and Marvin are potential superstars, I know Caldron is good but he's not worth that, he's not a superstar. You trade the #3 pick to get a superstar, Caldron is not a star player, get that off ya'll heads.


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## ballocks (May 15, 2003)

*Re: The Hawks want Calderon, offering lottery pick...*

childress again, huh? he's so good that... we'll propose him in any trade to get a point guard. he's great, he does this, he does that, you want him, look how good he is.  i guess atlanta's got their own version of our mo peterson.

it's pretty simple for me: trades like this don't do it because a) we're dealing key depth from a position of strength to b) possibly not even get an upgrade at a position of need. what do the raptors really have to gain from this? the pg depth would become questionable overnight and our wings would, at best, still be questionable.

also, what would a draft pick do for the raptors that it wouldn't do for the hawks? i just don't understand. bosh is 23, bargnani's 22, tj's 24 and calderon's 25. do you really need to set yourself back two (or likely more) years? why? what good would that do? the team wants to win now, it already has more of a future than almost any other team in the league, but would gladly move a valuable asset to get even younger?

personally, i want the calderon extension signed asap. this stuff is driving me wild. if it's not someone our partner is reluctant to give up (here, josh smith) then it's simply not worth it imo. can't get something for nothing, all that jazz (see charlie for ford last summer).

we should just trade mop for childress. then fans on both sides will feel upset that they couldn't rip off the other team. 

peace


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## DWADE4 (Aug 18, 2006)

*Re: The Hawks want Calderon, offering lottery pick...*

I say we do this deal if it comes along. IF somehow BC can get Josh Smith instead of Childress then that will be amazing. Even without Smith the deal looks good. There are plenty of good athletic SFs we can pick up at that #11 slot. To start with Corey Brewer, Jeff Green, Al Thornton, Thaddeus Young. Those SF's could come in right away and fill our athletic SF position. Spencer Hawes is also a good pick for the C, and last but not least couple quality PGs available Mike Conley Jr, Javaris Crittenton and Acie Law would be great picks. Imagine if Mike Conley jr falls down that spot since they want Jose, Raptors would get a great rookie point. 

The order I would like to have is 
1)Mike Conley jr - PG
2)Corey Brewer - SF 
3)Jeff Green - SF
4)Al Thornton - SF
5)Thaddeus Young - SF
6)Acie Law - PG
7)Spencer Hawes - C
8)Javaris Crittenton - PG/SG


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## madman (Oct 20, 2003)

*Re: The Hawks want Calderon, offering lottery pick...*

i agree with flush jose and calderon complement each other to well to get rid of them


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

*Re: The Hawks want Calderon, offering lottery pick...*



> what would a draft pick do for the raptors that it wouldn't do for the hawks?


You would have to look at the make up of the draft prospects. This year the draft is loaded with swingman, not that many point guards. The Raptors are rich in point guards, short on swingman, while the Hawks are the exact opposite. Thus getting a lottery pick would mean different things for the 2 teams.

I would love to trade Mopete for Childress, but I don't see why the Hawks will make such a trade as it's a lateral move (at best) for them. If we do end up giving up Jose or Ford, I would want a veteran point backing up either one of them rather than a rookie.


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## bmac (Feb 18, 2007)

*Re: The Hawks want Calderon, offering lottery pick...*

U actually think you're getting Josh Smith for Jose Calderon? The same Jose Calderon that averaged only 9 points and 5 assists last season, that will be 26 by the time the season starts, and is destined to be a career backup?

Seriously?


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

*Re: The Hawks want Calderon, offering lottery pick...*

The hawks will never do this deal.Vecsey is wrong again and that should be obvious from looking at how one sided this deal is.

This trade or anything similar wouldn't happen until the 11th pick is on the clock.The Hawks would be silly to make such a trade until they'd at least waited to see if Conley Jr was still there at 11.It doesn't seem likely right now,but it could very well happen.

You guys are pretty damned greedy or just flat out nuts.If you don't want to trade Calderon say so.Don't act he ****s gold every morning and you can trade him for any player in the league plus a lottery pick.


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## RX (May 24, 2006)

*Re: The Hawks want Calderon, offering lottery pick...*



DWADE4 said:


> The order I would like to have is
> *1)Mike Conley jr - PG
> 2)Corey Brewer - SF
> 3)Jeff Green - SF
> ...


*

Conley is the ONLY one on that list worth trading Calderon for..everyone else would be a serious downgrade for our team overall...we don't need someone who might be good in a few years on potential...the team is young enough...

Dunno why people are eating this trade up....downgrade at the most important position for a non-superstar rookie and an AVERAGE wing?...come on Josh Childress maybe good but compare him to everyone else in the league at his position...guys like him are a dime a dozen....now look at who all is interested in someone like Calderon....end of story*


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## RX (May 24, 2006)

*Re: The Hawks want Calderon, offering lottery pick...*



Diable said:


> The hawks will never do this deal.Vecsey is wrong again and that should be obvious from looking at how one sided this deal is.
> 
> This trade or anything similar wouldn't happen until the 11th pick is on the clock.The Hawks would be silly to make such a trade until they'd at least waited to see if Conley Jr was still there at 11.It doesn't seem likely right now,but it could very well happen.
> 
> You guys are pretty damned greedy or just flat out nuts.If you don't want to trade Calderon say so.Don't act he ****s gold every morning and you can trade him for any player in the league plus a lottery pick.


Not saying he's gold, but his value to this team is greater then what Childress would provide at this point in time


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## DWADE4 (Aug 18, 2006)

*Re: The Hawks want Calderon, offering lottery pick...*



Diable said:


> You guys are pretty damned greedy or just flat out nuts.If you don't want to trade Calderon say so.Don't act he ****s gold every morning and you can trade him for any player in the league plus a lottery pick.



If Jose was to be in this draft he would clearly be the BEST PG available out of them all. ATL needs a big upgrade at that slot rather then the SF. So it wouldnt be a bad trade if they send us their #11 and get Jose. For the Raptors we can bring over Ukic and draft a good athletic SF which WE need. Then Childress would be like a bonus who can play the PG/SG/SF positions for us.


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## Rhubarb (Mar 19, 2005)

*Re: The Hawks want Calderon, offering lottery pick...*

Wow, if Vescey is on the money, that's pretty intriguing.

I'm pretty loathe to let Jose go, and pretty much erase one of our major strengths as a squad (the one-two PG punch, and not to mention the chemistry factor, which is not to be underestimated), but obviously the upside is in solidifying the squad weaknesses at the wing - an upgrade in Childress and a potential addition of a, well, potential nice wing player from the draft, albeit one for the future.

I guess that's the distinction that needs to be made. The numero 11 pick (if we are to go with the wing player, which is likely) is obviously a key component of the deal, but it's got future written all over it. Jose represents what we're doing now, and what we're looking to do soon. Can the draft pick player lay claims to helping the current cause?


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

*Re: The Hawks want Calderon, offering lottery pick...*

Raps can't consider this deal until draft night when they see who is available at 11. You only do the deal for 1 specific player who you think is worth it. 

And I dont' like moving Graham in this deal. He was thought to be a lotto pick himself 2 years ago and slipped to us. Sam has not developed him well and he was starting to show his true potential at the end of this season. He could be better than Childress if he had gone to Atlanta and got playing time.

Calderon is a proven PG in the nba now. That makes him rare. Prospects come and go. Its a tough position to fill. Calderon has a good 6-8 years of top play in him and that is longer than any GM can plan for. He's not a star, but he's a starter who makes your stars better and wins games for you by maximizing possessions and making the correct play.

Childress and 11 for Jose is a tempting deal but it all depends how BC views Childress. The pick is always going to be a gamble. I almost prefer Childress to MarvWill as he is a pure wing.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

*Re: The Hawks want Calderon, offering lottery pick...*

Looks like this rumour is made-up.

It does involve a potential trading partner but supposedly "Vescey's" comments are unconfirmed.

Apologies.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

*Re: (False?) Childress for Calderon rumour*

I see the sense from ATL, but not Toronto. Is Childress THAT much better than Joey? Is the 11 preferable at this point for us over Jose?

Pass.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: The Hawks want Calderon, offering lottery pick...*



TheATLien said:


> I would definately deal the #11 for a veteran point guard, but I don't like the idea of Childress as merely a throw-in. I keep telling people on here he is a very under-rated player, much better than Boris Diaw in my mind who had a really good year two years ago with Phoenix.


Is Billy Knight really stupid enough to deal Josh Childress and a lottery pick for a backup point guard? Couldn't he just draft someone as mediocre? Or maybe grab someone off the scrap heap? Joey Graham is never going to be half the player that Childress is. Childress is incredibly under-appreciated. He's one of the few players that I see that nearly never takes a bad shot. He plays great defense to boot. He's the Anti-Szczerbiak. I'd kill to have him in Boston.


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## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

*Re: The Hawks want Calderon, offering lottery pick...*



ehmunro said:


> Is Billy Knight really stupid enough to deal Josh Childress and a lottery pick for a backup point guard? Couldn't he just draft someone as mediocre? Or maybe grab someone off the scrap heap? Joey Graham is never going to be half the player that Childress is. Childress is incredibly under-appreciated. He's one of the few players that I see that nearly never takes a bad shot. He plays great defense to boot. He's the Anti-Szczerbiak. I'd kill to have him in Boston.


I've learned to not underestimate the stupidity of NBA GM's because you never know. I think it's too much value to give up for a point guard who doesn't play defense and does not have very much experience as a starter. It would certainly fill a great need, but it seems like too much to give up for Atlanta. 

I agree with you about Chill, but it looks like one way or another he's going to be the odd man out this offseason.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: (False?) Childress for Calderon rumour*

I hope so (on Childress). I was hoping that Boston would take #8 & #22 from Charlotte for #5 and then Childress & #11 for whatever & #8. :bsmile:


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

*Re: The Hawks want Calderon, offering lottery pick...*



ehmunro said:


> Is Billy Knight really stupid enough to deal Josh Childress and a lottery pick for a backup point guard? Couldn't he just draft someone as mediocre?


Nope JC would be the top choice of PG's in this draft and as for young inexperience in starting slot mumble the time that JC has had to play as a starter he shone and really did well. Unfortunately this team has it's starting PG in Ford and I can see Jose putting up around 16/7 as a starter... hardly mediocre.


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## shookem (Nov 1, 2005)

*Re: The Hawks want Calderon, offering lottery pick...*



TheATLien said:


> I've learned to not underestimate the stupidity of NBA GM's because you never know. I think it's too much value to give up for a point guard who doesn't play defense and does not have very much experience as a starter. It would certainly fill a great need, but it seems like too much to give up for Atlanta.
> 
> I agree with you about Chill, but it looks like one way or another he's going to be the odd man out this offseason.


Jose has a decent amount of starting experience and more important, he has big game experience.

He's won games for the Raps, he challenged Kidd every possession he was on the court.

The list of potential PG's for the Hawks decreases when you include the desire to get a guy that's proven to win (don't forget his time with the NT).


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## NeoSamurai (Jan 16, 2003)

*Re: The Hawks want Calderon, offering lottery pick...*



Porn_Player said:


> Nope JC would be the top choice of PG's in this draft and as for young inexperience in starting slot mumble the time that JC has had to play as a starter he shone and really did well. Unfortunately this team has it's starting PG in Ford and I can see Jose putting up around 16/7 as a starter... hardly mediocre.


yup, completely agree...

look at the game log, particularly during the Jan-Feb period where he was put into the starting lineup after TJ was hampered with the ankle sprain...the guy is an efficient pass first PG who can stick the jumper when open and score coming through the lane when given the opportunity, half the teams in this league cant say that...he can be a starter in this league...


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## CocaineisaHelluvaDrug (Aug 24, 2006)

*Re: The Hawks want Calderon, offering lottery pick...*



TheATLien said:


> This trade is not going to happen, and Childress + #11 is too much for Jose.



Finally a realistic point of view 

That is one of the worst trade ideas ive ever heard


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

*Re: (False?) Childress for Calderon rumour*

Out of all the currently starting PGs in the league, I would take Jose Calderon over

Lue/Johnson/Speedy (Atlanta)
Rajon Rondo (Boston)
Cleveland doesn't even have a point guard
Steve Blake (Denver)
Rafer Alston (Houston)
Jamaal Tinsley (Indiana)
Smush Parker/Jordan Farmer (Lakers)
Sam Cassell (Clippers)
Damon Stoudamire (Memphis)
Jason Williams (Miami)
Mike James (Minnesota)
Jameel Nelson (Orlando)
Jarret Jack (Portland)

In other words, for almost half the league, getting Calderon would be considered an upgrade at the point guard position. For those of you who thinks of him as a career backup, you guys should realize the shortage of quality point guards in this league.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: The Hawks want Calderon, offering lottery pick...*



Porn_Player said:


> Nope JC would be the top choice of PG's in this draft and as for young inexperience in starting slot mumble the time that JC has had to play as a starter he shone and really did well. Unfortunately this team has it's starting PG in Ford and I can see Jose putting up around 16/7 as a starter... hardly mediocre.


Calderon isn't any better than Conley, Law or Crittenton. Why give up a good player _and_ a draft pick to get someone no better than you could draft anyway? Childress for Calderon is bad enough, because Childress is Shane Battier with an offensive game. Throwing in the draft pick is just senseless.



seifer0406[/quote said:


> Out of all the currently starting PGs in the league, I would take Jose Calderon over
> 
> Lue/Johnson/Speedy (Atlanta)
> Rajon Rondo (Boston)
> ...


Put the peace pipe down. That wacky tabacky you're smoking is laced with something dangerous. Jose Calderon is not only not as good as Joe Johnson, he doesn't even belong on the same court. Rajon Rondo is about 78 parsecs better, defensively, than Calderon could ever hope to be, Allen Iverson is the point guard in Denver, Steve Blake's the other guard (the guy that watches 'Melo & AI take all the shots), and Calderon doesn't bear mentioning in the same sentence as Iverson. Jamaal Tinsley is about what Calderon could aspire to as a starter, Sam Cassell has bowel movements that are better than Calderon. Kyle Lowry is the point guard in Memphis, and no, Calderon wouldn't be an upgrade. Nelson, James, and Jack are middle of the road starters whose ranks Calderon could hope to join as a starter. But he ain't there yet. Law & Crittenton are every bit as capable of being mediocre points as Calderon is. And they're younger and cheaper to boot. And the Hawks won't need to give away Josh Childress to get them.


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## cram (Jul 18, 2003)

*Re: The Hawks want Calderon, offering lottery pick...*



ehmunro said:


> Put the peace pipe down. That wacky tabacky you're smoking is laced with something dangerous. Jose Calderon is not only not as good as Joe Johnson, he doesn't even belong on the same court. Rajon Rondo is about 78 parsecs better, defensively, than Calderon could ever hope to be, Allen Iverson is the point guard in Denver, Steve Blake's the other guard (the guy that watches 'Melo & AI take all the shots), and Calderon doesn't bear mentioning in the same sentence as Iverson. Jamaal Tinsley is about what Calderon could aspire to as a starter, Sam Cassell has bowel movements that are better than Calderon. Kyle Lowry is the point guard in Memphis, and no , Calderon wouldn't be an upgrade. Nelson, James, and Jack are middle of the road starters whose ranks Calderon could hope to join as a starter. But he ain't there yet. Law & Crittenton are every bit as capable of being mediocre points as Calderon is. And they're younger and cheaper to boot. And the Hawks won't need to give away Josh Childress to get them.


That was an intelligent post. You haven't watched Calderon, obviously. He's easily a top half-of-the-league PG, and one of only 6 or 7 true point guards. Don't believe for a second that we wouldn't be discussing trading TJ Ford instead (Jose is better than TJ) if TJ weren't a Base-year-compensaton player.

He's also, IMO, the closest thing to Steve Nash in the NBA. Certainly not (and will never reach) Nash's calibre....but in terms of style of play and what he brings to the table, Jose is Nash(very)lite. And on Atlanta, full of star swingmen dieing for a PG who can control play and get the ball to them, what would be better?

(would you really want Iverson on THAT team??)


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: The Hawks want Calderon, offering lottery pick...*



cram said:


> That was an intelligent post. You haven't watched Calderon, obviously. He's easily a top half-of-the-league PG, and one of only 6 or 7 true point guards. Don't believe for a second that we wouldn't be discussing trading TJ Ford instead (Jose is better than TJ) if TJ weren't a Base-year-compensaton player.
> 
> He's also, IMO, the closest thing to Steve Nash in the NBA. Certainly not (and will never reach) Nash's calibre....but in terms of style of play and what he brings to the table, Jose is Nash(very)lite. And on Atlanta, full of star swingmen dieing for a PG who can control play and get the ball to them, what would be better?
> 
> (would you really want Iverson on THAT team??)


Calderon is the next Steve Nash??? :lol: :lol: :lol: 

OK, hold on, I've calmed down now...
:lol: :lol: :lol: 

He isn't close to a top 15 point guard in the NBA. He probably won't ever be a top 15 point guard unless he's fortunate to start someplace some year when ten of the top 15 are injured. Forget that whole "true point guard" schtick because it's BS thrown around by my fellow middle aged *******. Not every team needs a "true point guard" to dominate the ball and run the offense. Since Phil Jackson implemented Tex Winter's triple post offense more and more coaches use sets that distribute ball-handling chores amongst several players. That's why you've seen a rise in combo guards, it's because there's a demand for the skillset. (And contrary to popular belief, the kids aren't idiots, they can watch games just like the rest of you, and see what they need to do to make it the NBA.) Hell, I'd let the Hawks have Delonte West for Josh Childress. Sure, he's not quite as good as Calderon, but he'd be a whole lot cheaper than Childress & #11. Hell, for Childress & #11 he can have Rondo, who'll be a much better player when all's said and done.


----------



## cram (Jul 18, 2003)

*Re: The Hawks want Calderon, offering lottery pick...*



ehmunro said:


> Calderon is the next Steve Nash??? :lol: :lol: :lol:
> 
> OK, hold on, I've calmed down now...
> :lol: :lol: :lol:
> ...


Didn't say he's the next Steve Nash -- i said Steve Nash (very) lite. Playing styles. The types of things he brings to the table are more similar to Nash than say an Allen Iverson.

Rondo is nowhere near the guard that Jose is. Very different players as well (Rondo plays defense). 

You're right, btw. FOR SURE the reason there are more kids growing up to be combo guards these days is because Phil Jackson implemented Tex Winter's triangle offense. FOR SURE.

REAL point guards make the world go round for most teams that lack a Michael Jordan. If you'd rather have Iverson than Jason Kidd, or Marbury (in his prime) over Steve Nash....then you're insane.

btw - your "don't need a true PG" strategy has worked really well for the hawks so far. They;ve done an AMAZING job utilizing all that talent they have at the 2, 3, and 4.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

*Re: The Hawks want Calderon, offering lottery pick...*



ehmunro said:


> Calderon isn't any better than Conley, Law or Crittenton. Why give up a good player _and_ a draft pick to get someone no better than you could draft anyway? Childress for Calderon is bad enough, because Childress is Shane Battier with an offensive game. Throwing in the draft pick is just senseless.


Your understanding of maximizing the use of assets is top notch.

However, as demonstrated in the rest of your post, your player evaluation skills, are not. If we assume an NBA GM is a college all american, your evaluation skills would be near that of the college walk-on who plays in three blowout games a year.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: The Hawks want Calderon, offering lottery pick...*



JuniorNoboa said:


> Your understanding of maximizing the use of assets is top notch.
> 
> However, as demonstrated in the rest of your post, your player evaluation skills, are not. If we assume an NBA GM is a college all american, your evaluation skills would be near that of the college walk-on who plays in three blowout games a year.


Childress is, like Battier, a very good defensive player, and a very intelligent player overall. In that sense the comparison is a good one. Their games are completely different, offensively, and Battier's offensive game isn't very good. He's a fourth or fifth option on the floor. Childress is better than that, though he'll never be a first or second option. You might not like the comparison, but frankly I don't care. It's still an accurate description of Childress's impact on a team.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

*Re: The Hawks want Calderon, offering lottery pick...*



ehmunro said:


> Childress is, like Battier, a very good defensive player, and a very intelligent player overall. In that sense the comparison is a good one. Their games are completely different, offensively, and Battier's offensive game isn't very good. He's a fourth or fifth option on the floor. Childress is better than that, though he'll never be a first or second option. You might not like the comparison, but frankly I don't care. It's still an accurate description of Childress's impact on a team.


Frankly I don't care, that you don't care. Your assessment of Calderon is so poor that is not worth caring about.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

*Re: The Hawks want Calderon, offering lottery pick...*



JuniorNoboa said:


> Frankly I don't care, that you don't care. Your assessment of Calderon is so poor that is not worth caring about.


Exactly what I thought while enduring Ehmunro's posts...

This person has obviously never seen The Spanish Fly play, no team this year could stop his pick and slash to the basket. No team. 

I think your smoking Childress's pole a little too hard, the kid can play no doubt about that. A battier he certainly isn't and frankly on the raptors Childress would be the 4th or 5th scoring option behind Bosh, Ford, Bargs and Parker.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: The Hawks want Calderon, offering lottery pick...*



cram said:


> Didn't say he's the next Steve Nash -- i said Steve Nash (very) lite. Playing styles. The types of things he brings to the table are more similar to Nash than say an Allen Iverson.
> 
> Rondo is nowhere near the guard that Jose is. Very different players as well (Rondo plays defense).
> 
> You're right, btw. FOR SURE the reason there are more kids growing up to be combo guards these days is because Phil Jackson implemented Tex Winter's triangle offense. FOR SURE.


Take a look around the NBA at the increasing number of coaches who use offensive sets where ballhandling chores are distributed among several players. Seriously, look. Believe it or not, the kids playing the game notice the trend. 



cram said:


> REAL point guards make the world go round for most teams that lack a Michael Jordan.


Really? Where are these "real" point guards? If they're everywhere and on nearly every team, why were you earlier saying they're a rarity? You can't have this both ways. If they're that common then Calderon brings nothing to the table that can't be had elsewhere. If Calderon has some mystical "pure, point guard" ability that no one has, then "pure point guards" don't "make the world go round" for NBA teams because they don't have them and make do without them. Sacramento had a lot of success in the early part of this decade running a high post motion set where ballhandling chores were distributed. To the extent that the biggest criticism I hear of Bibby amongst the laity is that he isn't a "pure, pass first point guard". And it didn't stop the Kings from being the second best team in the league during the Lakers threepeat. And, no, a "pure point guard" wouldn't have put them over the hump because in the motion set that Adelman ran a ball dominating point guard was an impediment, not an advantage.



cram said:


> If you'd rather have Iverson than Jason Kidd, or Marbury (in his prime) over Steve Nash....then you're insane.


It would depend on the personnel that I had. Certainly Nash or Kidd couldn't have carried those Philadelphia teams that Iverson did anywhere, while Iverson, on the other hand, was more than willing to defer to 'Melo in Denver. 



cram said:


> btw - your "don't need a true PG" strategy has worked really well for the hawks so far. They;ve done an AMAZING job utilizing all that talent they have at the 2, 3, and 4.


The Hawks problems begin, and (for the most part) end with Steve Belkin. If he had an ounce of shame he'd admit that he was wrong and just go away. Unfortunately for Hawks fans, the three or four dozen left, he's not going anywhere, and the court case continues. This means that Atlanta can't fill in their roster with vets without court approval, which makes trades _just a little_ difficult. It's also why Billy Knight still has a job, no one else is willing to live with the restrictions.


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

*Re: The Hawks want Calderon, offering lottery pick...*



Porn_Player said:


> I think your smoking Childress's pole a little too hard, the kid can play no doubt about that. A battier he certainly isn't and frankly on the raptors Childress would be the 4th or 5th scoring option behind Bosh, Ford, Bargs and Parker.


Where one is undervaluing Calderon, another is undervaluing Childress...

If one person uses the Steve Nash (lite) analogy, why can't they do the same with Childress and Battier? Besides, if Childress were to be brought over it wouldn't be because of his scoring capabilities.

and ehmunro, your rebuttal against those list of PG's was just plain awful...


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## chulo (Jun 29, 2006)

*Re: (False?) Childress for Calderon rumour*

i haven't watched enough of childress, but calderon is a starting point guard on most teams. if you don't believe me, ask ppl in the nets forums about him in the playoffs. btw, i wouldn't do this trade...


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

*Re: The Hawks want Calderon, offering lottery pick...*



trick said:


> Where one is undervaluing Calderon, another is undervaluing Childress...
> 
> If one person uses the Steve Nash (lite) analogy, why can't they do the same with Childress and Battier? Besides, if Childress were to be brought over it wouldn't be because of his scoring capabilities.
> 
> and ehmunro, your rebuttal against those list of PG's was just plain awful...



How am I undervaluing Childress? Is he better than Battier in your opinion? Cos he aint in mine..

Would he take shots away from Bosh? .. No....

what about Ford? .. No....

Surely Parker or Bargs??? ... EH NO AND NO


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: The Hawks want Calderon, offering lottery pick...*



JuniorNoboa said:


> Frankly I don't care, that you don't care. Your assessment of Calderon is so poor that is not worth caring about.


I give up. You Raptors fans are impossible. You win, Calderon is a first ballot hall of famer and already the second best point guard in the NBA. In fact, I hear that Portland and Seattle are trying to figure out what it will take to get him. I hear that Colangelo has already turned down Greg Oden for him because it isn't enough for a guy that averaged 12/8 in January. I can't blame him, it would take at least Oden and Brandon Roy to land Calderon. Seattle tried offering Rashard Lewis and Kevin Durant, but he got rejected too. :lol: 




trick said:


> If one person uses the Steve Nash (lite) analogy, why can't they do the same with Childress and Battier? Besides, if Childress were to be brought over it wouldn't be because of his scoring capabilities.
> 
> and ehmunro, your rebuttal against those list of PG's was just plain awful...


Calderon is a run of the mill point guard. He isn't bad, but he isn't an all star, either. And, I can understand how people could miss Childress, given that he plays in Atlanta, and not many people subject themselves to Hawks games "unmedicated", but Childress has a very effective offensive game (albeit he isn't ever going to be a primary scorer). Watch a Hawks game sometime and watch how many bad shots he takes, it will be pretty close to zero. He'll end up being a 16-18 p/g scorer and lockdown defender once he escapes Atnalta (and as he's already a 13/6 wing it's a much better projection than the Jose Nash nonsense). Battier is a defensive wing who's pretty much a 10/5 guy. His value is entirely his defense and his spot shooting. Childress isn't the shooter, but he has more in his arsenal than Shane does.

Frankly, Atlanta can easily find a run of the mill point guard at 11, or they could deal Childress for Calderon. Either of those deals would be reasonable. But both for Calderon is just plain stupid, which is why I asked Atliens whether or not his GM could really be dumb enough to consummate _that_ trade. Because the point stands, why deal Childress and a pick for someone no better than they could draft? And, no, Calderon is not a serious upgrade on the players I noted. Frankly he isn't an upgrade on Cleveland either, as he'd be taking the ball out of LeBron James's hands. Cleveland's just fine with Daniel Gibson at the 1, as the _Detroit Pistons_ would tell you.


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## ballocks (May 15, 2003)

*Re: (False?) Childress for Calderon rumour*

i don't know why the arguments seem to always arrive at the extremes. in this case, we're now trying to argue that calderon is utterly _mediocre_, a back-up floor general _now_, a back-up floor general _forever_. i think someone said they'd prefer conley, law or crittenton over calderon today. i'm not laughing for two reasons: 1) it's not funny. seriously, it really isn't; 2) it makes me wanna stick my finger down my throat.

personally, i don't like josh childress. that doesn't have to mean that i think he's terrible, only that i don't like him and wouldn't consummate this sort of deal to get him. i'm sure he's more valuable than, i don't know, flip murray or luke walton or jason maxiell or some other scrub in the league, but that doesn't mean i'd move calderon to get this player. contrary to popular belief, there is a middle ground in pro sports, not every player has to be either amazing or god-awful. i wish we could try to find comfort in arguing different points _within_ that middle range instead of taking it out to the extremes (predictably) for a pointless exercise (imo).

in terms of the point guard position in toronto, i don't think it's necessarily stacked- but i think it could quite possibly be my favourite pg tandem in the league (favourite = best?). tj ford is not a dominant starter by any means, but there is big value (imo) in having jose calderon come off the bench and keep the train moving. having a 10/10 starter is great for 40 mins, but those 8 mins when he has to sit could lose the game for his team should his replacement be a ~3/10 player. we currently have a 7+/10 pg who starts and plays 60% of the game, and is replaced by another 7+/10 pg who plays the rest. there's value in that consistent production across 48 mins, not to mention the luxuries of keeping the starter relatively fresh on most nights and the healthy competition between them on all nights, quite possibly enough value to prefer this tandem to any other. put simply: it's 7+/10 for 48 mins every night. when your focal points are 6'11" big men, that point guard team becomes a _major_ advantage.

imo, trading jose is risky for the toronto raptors, not so much for what is lost on the court, but more for the overall flexibility and intangibles that are compromised. there's gotta be another way to upgrade the wings on this team seeing as its foundation has already been laid on the point, the box (bosh) and the bargnani. maybe the MLE _is_ the way to go because if this is the 'easiest' position to upgrade, why jeopardize the entire team for something like this? 

calderon brings more value to the raptors than he would bring to our trade partner, maybe, but that should be all we consider before nixing the idea.

i'm sure everyone in the league would start law, conley and crittenton today over calderon. uhh... yeah. i think we might've been reading too many mock drafts. those players actually exist, they actually play games, they're not just theoretical ideas that exist on scouting reports- they're not superhuman 19 year-olds. if any of you could name me a single team in the league- just one- that would prefer either of those three to our beloved jose today, i'd gladly become your slave forever. 

peace


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## andalusian (Jun 29, 2006)

*Re: (False?) Childress for Calderon rumour*

Conley has the potential to be a better player than JC - but it will not happen in his first, second or possibly third year in the league, if it ever does. Other than that - JC is a very good PG and would be an upgrade for many NBA teams.

Before you accuse me of being a homer Toronto fan - I should point out that I am a Portlander and Blazers fan. I just watch a lot of Toronto because I like Parker a lot and wanted to keep an eye on his career once he got back to the NBA (I used to love watching him when he played in Europe).


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## andalusian (Jun 29, 2006)

*Re: (False?) Childress for Calderon rumour*

Double post


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

*Re: The Hawks want Calderon, offering lottery pick...*



ehmunro said:


> I give up. You Raptors fans are impossible. You win, Calderon is a first ballot hall of famer and already the second best point guard in the NBA. In fact, I hear that Portland and Seattle are trying to figure out what it will take to get him. I hear that Colangelo has already turned down Greg Oden for him because it isn't enough for a guy that averaged 12/8 in January. I can't blame him, it would take at least Oden and Brandon Roy to land Calderon. Seattle tried offering Rashard Lewis and Kevin Durant, but he got rejected too. :lol:


Outstanding stuff.

BTW, there is a lot of difference between a run of the mill point guard and a first ballot hall of famer. There is also alot of difference between a mediocore point guard and Steve Nash... the middle point represents alot of value beyond the base line of mediocrity.

Perhaps one questioning the label of Calderon as mediocore and run of the mill, does not mean they are insinuating they are a hall of famer. I know it's a difficult concept... well it's really quite simple, but you seem too be too intent on just insulting our fan base.

BTW = I have intentionally added grammatical mistakes, so I keep you busy for your next post. Picking on grammer is usually next for run of the mill posters like yourself.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: (False?) Childress for Calderon rumour*



ballocks said:


> i don't know why the arguments seem to always arrive at the extremes. in this case, we're now trying to argue that calderon is utterly _mediocre_, a back-up floor general _now_,


The last time I checked, mediocre means middle of the road. If I had meant that Calderon was bad, I would have said "bad" or "poor" or "sucks". I didn't because he doesn't. But he is, indeed, mediocre. So is Jamaal Tinsley. So are a lot of players starting or coming off benches in the NBA. Certainly he could exceed that. But so can Conley, Law, and Crittenton. We're not talking about Steve Nash, Jason Kidd, Allen Iverson, Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Baron Davis or even T.J. Ford. You guys are sounding like Portland fans who were outraged that people didn't consider a Jarrett Jack for the #5 pick a bargain for the Celtics, or the Celtics fans outraged at the thoughts of trading Delonte West in the various Rashard Lewis or Shawn Marion scenarios floating around. Or the ones that claim Boston has the best young talent base in the NBA despite the fact that their future all stars went 4-31 without Paul Pierce. If every player on your roster were as great as you think they are, your team would have won 65 games. The fact that they didn't dominate the NBA is a pretty clear indication that at least _some_ of your guys are less talented than you think. 

So, yes, giving away Childress, and one of the three points in this draft (at least two of whom will be there at 11) for a guy that isn't a major upgrade over them seems silly. I suspect the Hawks could do better for Childress & #11. Call it a hunch.



ballocks said:


> personally, i don't like josh childress. that doesn't have to mean that i think he's terrible, only that i don't like him and wouldn't consummate this sort of deal to get him. i'm sure he's more valuable than, i don't know, flip murray or luke walton or jason maxiell or some other scrub in the league, but that doesn't mean i'd move calderon to get this player. contrary to popular belief, there is a middle ground in pro sports, not every player has to be either amazing or god-awful. i wish we could try to find comfort in arguing different points _within_ that middle range instead of taking it out to the extremes (predictably) for a pointless exercise (imo).


The best part of the bombast at the end is that you said it right after calling Josh Childress a scrub and Calderon a future all-star. Bravo, well done.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

*Re: (False?) Childress for Calderon rumour*

If your base line for mediocrity is Jamaal Tinsley, then once again you proved our point.


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## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

*Re: (False?) Childress for Calderon rumour*

I like Jose, I don't think he sucks or anything. I just think in any hypothetical trade for him, Atlanta shouldn't be giving up both Josh and a late lottery pick. I think that's too much for a player who albeit promising is still young & hasn't had a ton of experience as the main starter at point guard. My understanding is he split time with TJ Ford & excelled. I would also be a little concerned about defense if I was going to play him 35mpg as my point guard.

Question (I probably know the answer): Where do Raps fans rank Jose with other point guards like Jarrett Jack, Mo Williams, Mike Bibby, and Chris Duhon.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: The Hawks want Calderon, offering lottery pick...*



JuniorNoboa said:


> Outstanding stuff.
> 
> BTW, there is a lot of difference between a run of the mill point guard and a first ballot hall of famer. There is also alot of difference between a mediocore point guard and Steve Nash... the middle point represents alot of value beyond your base line.


Ohhh, I get it. English is your second language. My apologies. In English, "mediocre" represents the half way point between good and bad. In basketball terms it would mean the half way point between Steve Nash and Marcus Banks. Let's use numbers to see if that helps any. Teams generally have two points, some carry three, but not many. So, mathematically speaking there are probably somewhere between 60-70 point guards in the NBA. For convenience let's use 70. That would mean that of the 70 Calderon would fall somewhere between 30-40. I understand that to you guys any rating beneath ten represents "an insult" but 80% of NBA fans say the exact same thing about the guys sitting on their benches, and most of their teams don't make it out of the first round either.



TheATLien said:


> Question (I probably know the answer): Where do Raps fans rank Jose with other point guards like Jarrett Jack, Mo Williams, Mike Bibby, and Chris Duhon.


They rank him with Steve Nash, so I'd think the answer would be obvious. :bsmile:

EDIT: Mo Williams, by the way, would be a great addition to the Hawks. He's pretty much what the team needs at the 1. Pity the court case will prevent you guys from working out a sign & trade for him.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

*Re: (False?) Childress for Calderon rumour*

Oh i give up Ehmunro is one ignorant Honky....

I thought wisdom evolved with age??


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: (False?) Childress for Calderon rumour*



JuniorNoboa said:


> If your base line for mediocrity is Jamaal Tinsley, then once again you proved our point.


No, but the hilarious moral outrage here certainly proves mine (about homers in general).



porn_player said:


> Oh i give up Ehmunro is one ignorant Honky....
> 
> I thought wisdom evolved with age??


It does, never fear. One day even you will get some.


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## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

*Re: The Hawks want Calderon, offering lottery pick...*



ehmunro said:


> Mo Williams, by the way, would be a great addition to the Hawks. He's pretty much what the team needs at the 1. Pity the court case will prevent you guys from working out a sign & trade for him.


You were dead on about Belkin, however Knight doesn't have any restrictions from the ownership battle as far as trading goes. S&T might be different I guess.

The reason I asked is because one of the rumors on the Blazers board is Jarrett Jack for the #11. Is the gap between Jack and Jose so great that Atlanta would need to add in a young starter?


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

*Re: (False?) Childress for Calderon rumour*

Oh forgot to mention...

JC is better than Jack 

Worse than Bibby 

And debateable with Mo


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## Jizzy (Aug 24, 2005)

*Re: The Hawks want Calderon, offering lottery pick...*



> ehmunro said:
> 
> 
> > I *give up. You Raptors fans are impossible. You win, Calderon is a first ballot hall of famer and already the second best point guard in the NBA. In fact, I hear that Portland and Seattle are trying to figure out what it will take to get him. I hear that Colangelo has already turned down Greg Oden for him because it isn't enough for a guy that averaged 12/8 in January. I can't blame him, it would take at least Oden and Brandon Roy to land Calderon. Seattle tried offering Rashard Lewis and Kevin Durant, but he got rejected too. :lol: *
> ...


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

*Re: (False?) Childress for Calderon rumour*



ehmunro said:


> It does, never fear. One day even you will get some.


And what exactly have I done to warrant being separate from the rest of people my age in general in terms of wisdom development???

And excuse me if I do not anticipate this so called 'wisdom' anymore if it comes coupled with a lack of good basketball it can take a run and jump.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: The Hawks want Calderon, offering lottery pick...*



TheATLien said:


> You were dead on about Belkin, however Knight doesn't have any restrictions from the ownership battle as far as trading goes. S&T might be different I guess.
> 
> The reason I asked is because one of the rumors on the Blazers board is Jarrett Jack for the #11. Is the gap between Jack and Jose so great that Atlanta would need to add in a young starter?


I don't think so. They're both in the same tier. Jack is probably better suited for Woodson's offensive set, as he's plenty capable of carrying the ball upcourt, giving it to Johnson, and then acting as a glorified shooting guard. He'd probably excel in the role. Frankly, so would Law or Crittenton. But if it's Childress & 11 for Calderon or #11 for Jack, you go the latter route. And use Childress to fill another need.

As for Knight I was under the impression that to add salary he needed approval from all parties in the suit, did I get a bum steer on that?



porn_player said:


> And what exactly have I done to warrant being separate from the rest of people my age in general in terms of wisdom development???


Insulted me because I don't value Toronto's bench players as highly as Toronto fans?



porn_player said:


> And excuse me if I do not anticipate this so called 'wisdom' anymore if it comes coupled with a lack of good basketball


By nature, as you get older you lose your first step and a lot of your physical talent. So yes, middle aged wisdom does indeed come with a lack of "good basketball", but it does deepen your understanding of the game. And allow you to view players dispassionately. You'll even realise that guys like Jose Calderon are not better than Gilbert Arenas, Kirk Hinrich, Mike Bibby, Chauncey Billups, Jason Terry or even Mo Williams. You too will get there. Have a little faith.


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