# Jacque Vaughn fired



## Basel

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/563389743371939841


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## Basel

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/563391092645974017 @hobojoe


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## Marcus13

Whatever. Theyre sitting at 15 wins and that's exactly what that horrible roster is going to net you. George Karl may help this team over-achieve tho


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## Diable

This is about effort and development and that roster is not quite horrible. They have enough talent to develop into a decent team. You make one or two good moves and you have something. You have to get them to play the game the right way even if you're losing though, and you have to develop the guys. 

Look at how many minutes Willie Green has been getting and it's obvious that Vaughn just didn't understand what he was supposed to be doing.


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## seifer0406

With the amount of talent that Orlando have they really should be doing better than 15-37. Hopefully the new coach can shoot some life into Channing Frye. I know that Frye isn't worth 9 mil a year but he definitely isn't playing up to his capabilities. In the right system I think a stretch big like him can still be very effective in opening up the court for their perimeter guys like Oladipo and Harris.


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## R-Star

Diable said:


> This is about effort and development and that roster is not quite horrible. They have enough talent to develop into a decent team. You make one or two good moves and you have something. You have to get them to play the game the right way even if you're losing though, and you have to develop the guys.
> 
> Look at how many minutes Willie Green has been getting and it's obvious that *Vaughn just didn't understand what he was supposed to be doing.*


Yea... maybe you should have been coaching them instead.


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## hobojoe

I honestly saw Willie Green's recent uptick in minutes as a last act of defiance by Vaughn when he realized his days were numbered. There's no reason on earth a 15-37 team should be cutting the minutes of Elfrid Payton (the reigning Eastern Conference Rookie of the Month) in favor of Willie freakin' Green. Vaughn was told to push the tempo and play the young guys, he said **** you I'm going to play Willie Green and he got canned. 

The roster he was given with isn't great, but it's better than 15-37. From the beginning of Vaughn's tenure, everyone knew the Magic would struggle in the first couple years. He had to show improvement by now and he hasn't. He has one of the best centers in the league, an extremely talented backcourt and decent pieces elsewhere. There's just nothing you can point to with Vaughn as a reason he should keep his job.


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## roux

Basel said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/563391092645974017
> @hobojoe


Oh boy


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## Jamel Irief

hobojoe said:


> I honestly saw Willie Green's recent uptick in minutes as a last act of defiance by Vaughn when he realized his days were numbered. There's no reason on earth a 15-37 team should be cutting the minutes of Elfrid Payton (the reigning Eastern Conference Rookie of the Month) in favor of Willie freakin' Green. Vaughn was told to push the tempo and play the young guys, he said **** you I'm going to play Willie Green and he got canned.
> 
> The roster he was given with isn't great, but it's better than 15-37. From the beginning of Vaughn's tenure, everyone knew the Magic would struggle in the first couple years. He had to show improvement by now and he hasn't. He has one of the best centers in the league, an extremely talented backcourt and decent pieces elsewhere. There's just nothing you can point to with Vaughn as a reason he should keep his job.


Are you still going to defend the Frye and Gordon signings?


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## hobojoe

Jamel Irief said:


> Are you still going to defend the Frye and Gordon signings?



Here's what I said 7 months ago:



Jamel Irief said:


> You're not looking at opportunity cost. JNice made the same argument when you overpaid Shard. "Well we're going to be over the cap anyways, so the extra money theoretically doesn't hurt."
> 
> It did. Yes it's true years 1-3 the Magic weren't any worse off than if Shard made 30% less money, but as it loomed and they decided they needed change all they could get for his crippling contract was Arenas, who they later amnestied.
> 
> Everyone should agree the Magic could of improved their club even more with the 4 year, 32 million dollars than Frye. Maybe not necessarily this summer, but eventually. Gordon's isn't really crippling since it's only 2 years and below average.
> 
> I think everyone agrees that Mike Conley is a great point guard. You can literally put him on any team in the league, and he can play at least 20 minutes a game and complement whatever setup they have. From a pure basketball standpoint, every time would improve by trading their worst player for Mike Conley.
> 
> Now does that mean you're better off as a franchise with him making 30 million a year. No?
> 
> If ownership would trade a stunt of the long term growth for an 8th seed this season then I guess you can argue that they're inept, not Hennigan.





hobojoe said:


> Think you're misinterpreting my point. I don't disagree with anything you just said. I don't think this is a good move for the franchise, I even said it was short-sighted in my last post. I'm just saying I get it. Since the day Hennigan got here we've been told that he's rebuilding the team and we'd see improvements starting in 2014-15.
> 
> The Magic are going to trot out a team with three top 10 picks from the last two drafts as well as Tobias Harris and Nik Vucevic. If they can't compete for the 8th seed in the East, something is wrong. Vaughn is almost certainly going to lose his job and Hennigan is going to feel the heat for blowing those draft picks if they don't pan out. Channing Frye helps the Magic on the basketball court and that's not even debatable. It doesn't excuse making a short-sighted move, but it does explain it.
> 
> Orlando was looking at having the worst shooting team in the league by far. Now you figure they plug Frye into the starting lineup (160+ 3PT three times), slide Aaron Gordon to the bench as a combo forward and bring him along slowly. You add Ben Gordon and Evan Fournier to the bench and you have a pretty solid, balanced 8 or 9 man rotation.
> 
> Completely different situation than the Lewis contract by the way. The argument people made time after time was that the Magic could've improved their roster further and possibly won a title if they hadn't overpaid Lewis. The counter to that was that from a cap standpoint, paying Lewis $120 million or $80 million made no difference.
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


What I said:
"I don't think this is a good move for the franchise"
"Short-sighted"
"If they can't compete for the 8th seed in the East, something is wrong. Vaughn is almost certainly going to lose his job"

So yes, they're not competing for the 8th seed, something is wrong and Vaughn has now lost his job like I said he would. If that's "defending" the moves, yes I still defend them.


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## seifer0406

The only problem I have with Frye is his contract. As a player I think he's an useful piece when he is put into the right system but I don't think paying him 8 mil a year for 4 years is remotely close to what he's actually worth. That said it's not nearly in the realm of the Shard contract in terms of team crippling. I still hold to this day that the Magic fans were dead wrong back then when they defended the Shard contract, however I do understand how they can at least rationalize the Frye contract.

The Ben Gordon contract was a dumb move but at least it's only for 1 year since it's a team option for next year. As for their current combination of young talent it's a big question whether Aaron Gordon can fit in with Vucevic and Tobias Harris. Aaron Gordon's skillset is kind of like a less developed/more athletic version of Harris. Both are 3/4 tweeners that can't play their position in the traditional sense.


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## hobojoe

seifer0406 said:


> The only problem I have with Frye is his contract. As a player I think he's an useful piece when he is put into the right system but I don't think paying him 8 mil a year for 4 years is remotely close to what he's actually worth. That said it's not nearly in the realm of the Shard contract in terms of team crippling. I still hold to this day that the Magic fans were dead wrong back then when they defended the Shard contract, however I do understand how they can at least rationalize the Frye contract.
> 
> The Ben Gordon contract was a dumb move but at least it's only for 1 year since it's a team option for next year. As for their current combination of young talent it's a big question whether Aaron Gordon can fit in with Vucevic and Tobias Harris. Aaron Gordon's skillset is kind of like a less developed/more athletic version of Harris. Both are 3/4 tweeners that can't play their position in the traditional sense.



I'm fairly confident Tobias Harris is not in the Magic's future plans.


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## R-Star

hobojoe said:


> I'm fairly confident Tobias Harris is not in the Magic's future plans.


Toby Harris has basically said he isn't in the Magics plans himself.

Not really a surprise that Seifer doesn't know what's going on though.


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## seifer0406

R-Star said:


> Toby Harris has basically said he isn't in the Magics plans himself.
> 
> Not really a surprise that Seifer doesn't know what's going on though.


Good, find me a quote from Harris if you're going to make a claim like that.


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## seifer0406

hobojoe said:


> I'm fairly confident Tobias Harris is not in the Magic's future plans.


I think it'll really depend on the new coach and how he sees the current roster. As far as I can tell Aaron Gordon has a lot of development to do just to be as good as Harris is right now. At just 22 years old I don't see why Orlando would write him off already.


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## hobojoe

seifer0406 said:


> I think it'll really depend on the new coach and how he sees the current roster. As far as I can tell Aaron Gordon has a lot of development to do just to be as good as Harris is right now. At just 22 years old I don't see why Orlando would write him off already.


You can take it to the bank if Scott Skiles is part of the Magic's future that Tobias Harris won't be. 

Aaron Gordon will never be the scorer Tobias Harris is right now, I don't think I'm making a terribly bold claim in saying that. That's the problem with Harris though, that's all he does and he doesn't do it well enough to warrant the type of contract he's seeking or to make up for his deficiencies elsewhere. Gordon was a reach at #4 , but it's easy to see why so many compared him to Shawn Marion coming out of college. Great athleticism and defensive versatility. Offensively he's incredibly raw. He'll get better, but even at his peak I don't see a first or even second option. I see a great effort guy who excels on defense, guards multiple positions and maybe scores 15 points a night, mostly around the rim or on spot up corner threes. Nothing wrong with that, just not a go to guy offensively or a superstar.


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## Jamel Irief

hobojoe said:


> Here's what I said 7 months ago:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What I said:
> "I don't think this is a good move for the franchise"
> "Short-sighted"
> "If they can't compete for the 8th seed in the East, something is wrong. Vaughn is almost certainly going to lose his job"
> 
> So yes, they're not competing for the 8th seed, something is wrong and Vaughn has now lost his job like I said he would. If that's "defending" the moves, yes I still defend them.


Fair enough response.


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## R-Star

seifer0406 said:


> Good, find me a quote from Harris if you're going to make a claim like that.


Or you could just google search Toby Harris to the Knicks.

Because.... google exists and all.


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## R-Star

hobojoe said:


> You can take it to the bank if Scott Skiles is part of the Magic's future that Tobias Harris won't be.
> 
> Aaron Gordon will never be the scorer Tobias Harris is right now, I don't think I'm making a terribly bold claim in saying that. That's the problem with Harris though, that's all he does and he doesn't do it well enough to warrant the type of contract he's seeking or to make up for his deficiencies elsewhere. Gordon was a reach at #4 , but it's easy to see why so many compared him to Shawn Marion coming out of college. Great athleticism and defensive versatility. Offensively he's incredibly raw. He'll get better, but even at his peak I don't see a first or even second option. I see a great effort guy who excels on defense, guards multiple positions and maybe scores 15 points a night, mostly around the rim or on spot up corner threes. Nothing wrong with that, just not a go to guy offensively or a superstar.


Harris is fools gold at this point. The Knicks are going to offer him a ridiculous sum of money this summer. They'd be better off just trading the guy at the deadline.


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## seifer0406

R-Star said:


> Or you could just google search Toby Harris to the Knicks.
> 
> Because.... google exists and all.


Because Harris never said that and you're full of shit once again.

Go ahead, find one. The closest thing you'll find is one of his "close friends" told some reporter that Harris told him that he would love to win a championship with the Knicks. Don't tell me that is your source?


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## R-Star

seifer0406 said:


> Because Harris never said that and you're full of shit once again.
> 
> Go ahead, find one. The closest thing you'll find is one of his "close friends" told some reporter that Harris told him that he would love to win a championship with the Knicks. Don't tell me that is your source?


What I can tell you is that you clearly just googled it like I told you to, and now you're acting like you already knew there was multiple articles written on this "close friend". 

It's ****ing hilarious that you're acting like you knew that. 

You're such a ****ing loser.


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## seifer0406

R-Star said:


> What I can tell you is that you clearly just googled it like I told you to, and now you're acting like you already knew there was multiple articles written on this "close friend".
> 
> It's ****ing hilarious that you're acting like you knew that.
> 
> You're such a ****ing loser.


You're right, I did google check it after you told me to to see if he actually said that. The last time I read an article of Harris about his contract was a few months ago where he actually said that he wanted to re-sign with Orlando. That fell through because Orlando only offered him 32 mil or somewhere along those lines. I haven't heard anything from Harris since and definitely nothing of the sort that you described.

And by the way, if you actually took the time to read the article, it was one article that reported it and a few others referring to that article that referred to this "close friend". If we ever use the term "it's just a rumor" it would be for something like this.

But you know what, checking for your sources is like grammar checking a retard kid. I wasn't expecting much to begin with. It is just like you to turn this into "Harris basically said he's leaving Orlando!" eventhough it's just one of these many rumors that you hear pretty much any day.

The bottom line is this, Tobias Harris is a restricted free agent next year. Even if New York gives him a max offer sheet, it's still up to Orlando to decide whether they'll match it. Harris isn't going to sign a qualifying offer given that the QO is only for 3-4 mil on top of his recent injury history. This is why I said that it'll depend on how the new coach sees the roster because at 15-37 it's unreasonable to assume that whatever they're doing is already set in stone.


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## R-Star

seifer0406 said:


> You're right, I did google check it after you told me to to see if he actually said that. The last time I read an article of Harris about his contract was a few months ago where he actually said that he wanted to re-sign with Orlando. That fell through because Orlando only offered him 32 mil or somewhere along those lines. I haven't heard anything from Harris since and definitely nothing of the sort that you described.
> 
> But you know what, checking for your sources is like grammar checking a retard kid. I wasn't expecting much to begin with. It is just like you to turn this into "Harris basically said he's leaving Orlando!" eventhough it's just one of these many rumors that you hear pretty much any day.


So this is kind of like when I said Houston would miss the playoffs if they signed Josh Smith right?

Get the **** out of the thread Seifer. 

Hobojoe actually watches the team. He also expects Harris to be gone. Let me guess though, he's wrong. He's wrong and you're right. You've come into yet another thread to tell fans of a team they're all wrong, and you're right. Sure you're constantly wrong about your own team, but when it comes to other teams you're the guy. 


Every single poster on this website hates you. Does that ever sink in with you?

Anyways, I've taken up enough threads pointing out how much of a stupid asshole you are. I won't ruin yet another one here.


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## seifer0406

R-Star said:


> So this is kind of like when I said Houston would miss the playoffs if they signed Josh Smith right?
> 
> Get the **** out of the thread Seifer.
> 
> Hobojoe actually watches the team. He also expects Harris to be gone. Let me guess though, he's wrong. He's wrong and you're right. You've come into yet another thread to tell fans of a team they're all wrong, and you're right. Sure you're constantly wrong about your own team, but when it comes to other teams you're the guy.
> 
> 
> Every single poster on this website hates you. Does that ever sink in with you?
> 
> Anyways, I've taken up enough threads pointing out how much of a stupid asshole you are. I won't ruin yet another one here.





R-Star said:


> Toby Harris has basically said he isn't in the Magics plans himself.


Keep running R-Star. If you muddy the issue enough people will forget that you made another bullshit claim that you cannot backup.

Just get lost dude. I know you're a masochist on these forums but I really am tired of delivering your daily dose of humiliation. Go find someone else to tell you you're wrong everytime you say something retarded. Please.


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## R-Star

seifer0406 said:


> Keep running R-Star. If you muddy the issue enough people will forget that you made another bullshit claim that you cannot backup.
> 
> Just get lost dude. I know you're a masochist on these forums but I really am tired of delivering your daily dose of humiliation. Go find someone else to tell you you're wrong everytime you say something retarded. Please.


What? 

I think that you actually believe what you're saying is the pathetic part. 

I just completely tore you apart in a thread by bringing up you wanted both Lowry and Derozan gone last season, and your only reply was "Perry Jones sure is lighting it up for OKC huh R-Star?" You then followed it up by saying you wanted Bargnani and Gay gone as well, so being wrong on Lowry and Derozan doesn't really count...... because you know... that's perfectly sound logic. 

Honestly, go back and read the thread. You've lost your ****ing mind. 


What I would like first though is for you to answer this. Hobojoe, a guy who's posted about the Magic on this forum for years thinks Harris isn't in the teams future plans like you said he was. I'd like you to tell him he's wrong. 

Reply with whatever Perry Jones nonsense you'd like, I'm only interested in one thing. Tell Hobojoe he's wrong.


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## R-Star

*“It’s always exciting,’’ Harris said of facing the Knicks. “No place like home. Love being at home, playing at home in front of family and friends. It’s going to be a good game.”

“I’m not really too surprised,’’ Harris said of the Knicks’ struggles. “It’s part of the NBA. It’s just Phil Jackson’s first year here. You can see he’s making some moves to do some big things [this summer].’’*

To act like Harris has said nothing leading to people thinking he is interested in going to the Knicks is asinine. But of course, Perry Jones, so R-Star is an idiot.


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## seifer0406

R-Star said:


> What?
> 
> I think that you actually believe what you're saying is the pathetic part.
> 
> I just completely tore you apart in a thread by bringing up you wanted both Lowry and Derozan gone last season, and your only reply was "Perry Jones sure is lighting it up for OKC huh R-Star?" You then followed it up by saying you wanted Bargnani and Gay gone as well, so being wrong on Lowry and Derozan doesn't really count...... because you know... that's perfectly sound logic.
> 
> Honestly, go back and read the thread. You've lost your ****ing mind.
> 
> 
> What I would like first though is for you to answer this. Hobojoe, a guy who's posted about the Magic on this forum for years thinks Harris isn't in the teams future plans like you said he was. I'd like you to tell him he's wrong.
> 
> Reply with whatever Perry Jones nonsense you'd like, I'm only interested in one thing. Tell Hobojoe he's wrong.


I already said enough on that Lowry topic. If you're too slow to comprehend it I'm not going to waste any more time. If you knew something I didn't at that time then you would've said we shouldn't trade Lowry because the Raptors would turn the team around with him. You didn't. End of story.

Hobojoe believes that Orlando's future plans doesn't include Tobias Harris. I disagree with him but I see his reasoning. You on the hand made a bold face lie saying that Tobias Harris said that he's leaving Orlando. You have nothing to backup your claim and that's why you're full of shit.


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## R-Star

seifer0406 said:


> I already said enough on that Lowry topic. If you're too slow to comprehend it I'm not going to waste any more time. If you knew something I didn't at that time then you would've said we shouldn't trade Lowry because the Raptors would turn the team around with him. You didn't. End of story.
> 
> Hobojoe believes that Orlando's future plans doesn't include Tobias Harris. I disagree with him but I see his reasoning. You on the hand made a bold face lie saying that Tobias Harris said that he's leaving Orlando. You have nothing to backup your claim and that's why you're full of shit.


Can you quote where I said "Tobias Harris said that he's leaving Orlando", or is this like your "You said Josh Smith would make the Rockets miss the playoffs!"?

Just wondering.


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## seifer0406

R-Star said:


> *“It’s always exciting,’’ Harris said of facing the Knicks. “No place like home. Love being at home, playing at home in front of family and friends. It’s going to be a good game.”
> 
> “I’m not really too surprised,’’ Harris said of the Knicks’ struggles. “It’s part of the NBA. It’s just Phil Jackson’s first year here. You can see he’s making some moves to do some big things [this summer].’’*
> 
> To act like Harris has said nothing leading to people thinking he is interested in going to the Knicks is asinine. But of course, Perry Jones, so R-Star is an idiot.


lol. Maybe you should google Jeremy Lin's comments when he faced Golden State or Demar DeRozan's comments when he played the Lakers or Clippers.

I know you're grabbing at anything to save face but you're not going to find anything. But by all means keep trying.


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## seifer0406

R-Star said:


> Can you quote where I said "Tobias Harris said that he's leaving Orlando", or is this like your "You said Josh Smith would make the Rockets miss the playoffs!"?
> 
> Just wondering.





> Toby Harris has basically said he isn't in the Magics plans himself.


Are we going into semantics again? This seems like your go-to tactic whenever you're caught bullshitting.

Two can play at this game though. Quote me saying that you made a claim that the Rockets will miss the playoffs. Oh no!

You know what, this is enough retardation for one day. Go play your childish games somewhere else. I'm done with this.


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## R-Star

seifer0406 said:


> Are we going into semantics again? This seems like your go-to tactic whenever you're caught bullshitting.
> 
> Two can play at this game though. Quote me saying that you made a claim that the Rockets will miss the playoffs. Oh no!
> 
> You know what, this is enough retardation for one day. Go play your childish games somewhere else. I'm done with this.


But I thought you just accused me of running away?


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## seifer0406

R-Star said:


> Toby Harris has basically said he isn't in the Magics plans himself.
> 
> Not really a surprise that Seifer doesn't know what's going on though.


That Perry Jones is a hell of a player.


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## R-Star

seifer0406 said:


> That Perry Jones is a hell of a player.


The Thunder should have traded Reggie Jackson for Lance Stephenson?

Difference is, I called Jones a solid rotation player. Not nearly as stupid as the **** that drops out of your mouth.


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## seifer0406

R-Star said:


> The Thunder should have traded Reggie Jackson for Lance Stephenson?
> 
> Difference is, I called Jones a solid rotation player. Not nearly as stupid as the **** that drops out of your mouth.


I'm just kicking back and enjoying this year. It's funny how you called Perry Jones and Jeremy Lamb key parts of the Thunder bench and almost immediately after you said that they got glued to the bench the rest of the year. Telling me that Tobias Harris is leaving Orlando and going to New York and the dude stays for 4 years. Warning people about Josh Smith killing team chemistry and then watching him save the Rockets season and single handedly shoot the Rockets back into the conference finals. Your face must be as thick as Oliver Miller's hairy back because a normal person would've stopped talking after being wrong at almost everything that he has said this year.


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## R-Star

seifer0406 said:


> I'm just kicking back and enjoying this year. It's funny how you called Perry Jones and Jeremy Lamb key parts of the Thunder bench and almost immediately after you said that they got glued to the bench the rest of the year. Telling me that Tobias Harris is leaving Orlando and going to New York and the dude stays for 4 years. *Warning people about Josh Smith killing team chemistry and then watching him save the Rockets season and single handedly shoot the Rockets back into the conference finals.* Your face must be as thick as Oliver Miller's hairy back because a normal person would've stopped talking after being wrong at almost everything that he has said this year.


You're.... you're joking right?



Also, I like how you glossed over the fact you said OKC should trade Reggie Jackson, plus some other players and a first rounder for Lance Stephenson. 

How utterly asinine is it for someone to bring up things someone else was wrong about this season, and then refuse to even acknowledge when someone brings up their own mistakes?


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## seifer0406

R-Star said:


> You're.... you're joking right?
> 
> 
> 
> Also, I like how you glossed over the fact you said OKC should trade Reggie Jackson, plus some other players and a first rounder for Lance Stephenson.
> 
> How utterly asinine is it for someone to bring up things someone else was wrong about this season, and then refuse to even acknowledge when someone brings up their own mistakes?


It's hardly a mistake. They ended up acquiring Dion Waiters who is somewhat similar to Lance. I recognized correctly OKC's need for a shot creator off the bench and judging by how Waiters stunk up the joint it's hard to say Lance wouldn't have done better with a change of scenery.

But kudos for OKC for snatching up Enes Kanter for Reggie Jackson. If anything I over estimated Kanter's value seeing that he was having the best year of his career even when he was battling Gobert for PT.

And no, I'm not joking. It's comical how wrong you were this year with most of your points. It's almost as if when you say something the exact opposite of that thing would happen and make you look like a fool. I don't understand why you even bothering arguing with me seeing that I've been right about pretty much all of our disagreements.


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## R-Star

seifer0406 said:


> It's hardly a mistake. They ended up acquiring Dion Waiters who is somewhat similar to Lance. I recognized correctly OKC's need for a shot creator off the bench and judging by how Waiters stunk up the joint it's hard to say Lance wouldn't have done better with a change of scenery.
> 
> But kudos for OKC for snatching up Enes Kanter for Reggie Jackson. If anything I over estimated Kanter's value seeing that he was having the best year of his career even when he was battling Gobert for PT.
> 
> And no, I'm not joking. It's comical how wrong you were this year with most of your points. It's almost as if when you say something the exact opposite of that thing would happen and make you look like a fool. I don't understand why you even bothering arguing with me seeing that I've been right about pretty much all of our disagreements.


The majority of posters agree Josh Smith is a cancer and a chucker. Go ahead and point to a couple good games and act like that made him "saved the Rockets season" (your exact words by the way) if you'd like. It's laughable. He was promised a starters role when he got there and he was quickly benched. He started to play better when injuries to the team happened, but I'd still call him far from a great asset. Let alone the player who "saved the Rockets season."

And for you to write **** like "Stephenson for Jackson was hardly a mistake. They traded for Waiters, they're the same player." No, they aren't, but it doesn't even matter seeing as they traded a protected first for Waiters. Not Jackson, a first rounder, and other players like you wanted to trade for Lance Stephenson.

Like... you get the difference right? You understand that, you know, seeing it didn't even involve any of the players you're pretending it did how that could make you look stupid, right?


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## seifer0406

R-Star said:


> The majority of posters agree Josh Smith is a cancer and a chucker. Go ahead and point to a couple good games and act like that made him "saved the Rockets season" (your exact words by the way) if you'd like. It's laughable. He was promised a starters role when he got there and he was quickly benched. He started to play better when injuries to the team happened, but I'd still call him far from a great asset. Let alone the player who "saved the Rockets season."
> 
> And for you to write **** like "Stephenson for Jackson was hardly a mistake. They traded for Waiters, they're the same player." No, they aren't, but it doesn't even matter seeing as they traded a protected first for Waiters. Not Jackson, a first rounder, and other players like you wanted to trade for Lance Stephenson.
> 
> Like... you get the difference right? You understand that, you know, seeing it didn't even involve any of the players you're pretending it did how that could make you look stupid, right?


I'm actually laughing uncontrollably right now.

How about I give you a minute and you figure out your final stance on Josh Smith. Are you going to admit that you were wrong and he didn't hurt the Rockets or were you right and he did hurt the Rockets by playing poorly and getting benched. Don't start buttering both side of the bread now. It'll slip out of your hand and then nobody can eat it after it hits the ground.

As for Lance go back to the thread and read the reasoning I gave for why he would help OKC. They needed a 3rd scoring option that can create his own shot and hopefully create shots for others. Someone that they missed ever since Harden left. They went out and got Waiters who was an iso scorer and a penetrator which is exactly the type of player I said they needed. I'll concede and say that I wasn't expecting OKC being able to turn Reggie Jackson into Enes Kanter. If I knew that was a possible trade I would've jumped on that seeing I've been a big Kanter fan and have been saying that the Raptors should've acquired him.

Btw, I'm waiting for you to address this thread. You want to tell everyone that you were wrong about Harris leaving Orlando or are you going to keep spinning things to save face?


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## XxIrvingxX

seifer0406 said:


> That Perry Jones is a hell of a player.





R-Star said:


> The Thunder should have traded Reggie Jackson for Lance Stephenson?
> 
> Difference is, I called Jones a solid rotation player. Not nearly as stupid as the **** that drops out of your mouth.





seifer0406 said:


> I'm just kicking back and enjoying this year. It's funny how you called Perry Jones and Jeremy Lamb key parts of the Thunder bench and almost immediately after you said that they got glued to the bench the rest of the year. Telling me that Tobias Harris is leaving Orlando and going to New York and the dude stays for 4 years. Warning people about Josh Smith killing team chemistry and then watching him save the Rockets season and single handedly shoot the Rockets back into the conference finals. Your face must be as thick as Oliver Miller's hairy back because a normal person would've stopped talking after being wrong at almost everything that he has said this year.





R-Star said:


> You're.... you're joking right?
> 
> 
> 
> Also, I like how you glossed over the fact you said OKC should trade Reggie Jackson, plus some other players and a first rounder for Lance Stephenson.
> 
> How utterly asinine is it for someone to bring up things someone else was wrong about this season, and then refuse to even acknowledge when someone brings up their own mistakes?





seifer0406 said:


> It's hardly a mistake. They ended up acquiring Dion Waiters who is somewhat similar to Lance. I recognized correctly OKC's need for a shot creator off the bench and judging by how Waiters stunk up the joint it's hard to say Lance wouldn't have done better with a change of scenery.
> 
> But kudos for OKC for snatching up Enes Kanter for Reggie Jackson. If anything I over estimated Kanter's value seeing that he was having the best year of his career even when he was battling Gobert for PT.
> 
> And no, I'm not joking. It's comical how wrong you were this year with most of your points. It's almost as if when you say something the exact opposite of that thing would happen and make you look like a fool. I don't understand why you even bothering arguing with me seeing that I've been right about pretty much all of our disagreements.





R-Star said:


> The majority of posters agree Josh Smith is a cancer and a chucker. Go ahead and point to a couple good games and act like that made him "saved the Rockets season" (your exact words by the way) if you'd like. It's laughable. He was promised a starters role when he got there and he was quickly benched. He started to play better when injuries to the team happened, but I'd still call him far from a great asset. Let alone the player who "saved the Rockets season."
> 
> And for you to write **** like "Stephenson for Jackson was hardly a mistake. They traded for Waiters, they're the same player." No, they aren't, but it doesn't even matter seeing as they traded a protected first for Waiters. Not Jackson, a first rounder, and other players like you wanted to trade for Lance Stephenson.
> 
> Like... you get the difference right? You understand that, you know, seeing it didn't even involve any of the players you're pretending it did how that could make you look stupid, right?


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## seifer0406

XxIrvingxX said:


>


I'm giving him his medicine. A bad kid like him needs to be spanked from time to time.


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## R-Star

seifer0406 said:


> I'm actually laughing uncontrollably right now.
> 
> How about I give you a minute and you figure out your final stance on Josh Smith. Are you going to admit that you were wrong and he didn't hurt the Rockets or were you right and he did hurt the Rockets by playing poorly and getting benched. Don't start buttering both side of the bread now. It'll slip out of your hand and then nobody can eat it after it hits the ground.
> 
> As for Lance go back to the thread and read the reasoning I gave for why he would help OKC. They needed a 3rd scoring option that can create his own shot and hopefully create shots for others. Someone that they missed ever since Harden left. They went out and got Waiters who was an iso scorer and a penetrator which is exactly the type of player I said they needed. I'll concede and say that I wasn't expecting OKC being able to turn Reggie Jackson into Enes Kanter. If I knew that was a possible trade I would've jumped on that seeing I've been a big Kanter fan and have been saying that the Raptors should've acquired him.
> 
> Btw, I'm waiting for you to address this thread. You want to tell everyone that you were wrong about Harris leaving Orlando or are you going to keep spinning things to save face?


What? Buttering my bread? You said Josh Smith single handedly saved the Rockets season. You said that didn't you? Just answer yes or no. I don't need to hear how I'm cracking my eggs twice while you dance away from foolish things you've said.

And if you want me to go back to that OKC thread about Lance, do you want me to quote your post where you conceded you didn't even really know who Reggie Jackson was when you made the trade offer? I can do that if you'd like.


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## R-Star

seifer0406 said:


> I'm giving him his medicine. A bad kid like him needs to be spanked from time to time.


This is like the third time we've had debates where Irwin tells us to shut up and you jump on it like a life preserver acting like someone's teaming up with you.


It's actually pretty sad.


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## hobojoe

I am surprised Harris is back, especially with Skiles as the head coach. With that said, let's not forget that the Magic tried to give his money and roster spot to Paul Millsap and struck out. Option A _was _to let Harris go, so let's not gloss over that. 

I really wish they had let him go too, especially with Aaron Gordon looking ready to play this season.


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## seifer0406

R-Star said:


> What? Buttering my bread? You said Josh Smith single handedly saved the Rockets season. You said that didn't you? Just answer yes or no. I don't need to hear how I'm cracking my eggs twice while you dance away from foolish things you've said.
> 
> And if you want me to go back to that OKC thread about Lance, do you want me to quote your post where you conceded you didn't even really know who Reggie Jackson was when you made the trade offer? I can do that if you'd like.


Did you not watch the playoffs dude? Without Josh Smith the Rockets would've been done in 6 games against the Clippers.

The guy averaged 12 and 6 with a couple assists, a block and a steal in 25 min. For 2 mil a year you're an idiot for even arguing this. This is what I don't get with people. You have Daryl Morey who managed to build a Rockets team that finished 2nd best in the West (as well as being a top team at the time of the trades) while missing 3 of their starters (Dwight, Jones, Beverley) for most of the season. Instead of thinking that the moves he makes are likely good moves, people actually praised Van Gundy and his struggling Pistons for making panic moves and thinking they were great moves. And they were not good moves like I said at the time. Finishing with 32 wins and getting the 8th pick when you were something like 20 games under .500 is stupid no matter how you look it. The problem is compounded when you consider that you lost one of your best players for nothing because you failed at recognizing that the guy's leaving even when he signed a qualifying offer instead of a multi year extension.

Picking up Josh Smith as well as getting Corey Brewer were Genius moves with a capital G. Anyone who doesn't see this don't know shit about the NBA, period.


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## R-Star

seifer0406 said:


> Did you not watch the playoffs dude? Without Josh Smith the Rockets would've been done in 6 games against the Clippers.
> 
> The guy averaged 12 and 6 with a couple assists, a block and a steal in 25 min. For 2 mil a year you're an idiot for even arguing this. This is what I don't get with people. You have Daryl Morey who managed to build a Rockets team that finished 2nd best in the West (as well as being a top team at the time of the trades) while missing 3 of their starters (Dwight, Jones, Beverley) for most of the season. Instead of thinking that the moves he makes are likely good moves, people actually praised Van Gundy and his struggling Pistons for making panic moves and thinking they were great moves. And they were not good moves like I said at the time. Finishing with 32 wins and getting the 8th pick when you were something like 20 games under .500 is stupid no matter how you look it. The problem is compounded when you consider that you lost one of your best players for nothing because you failed at recognizing that the guy's leaving even when he signed a qualifying offer instead of a multi year extension.
> 
> Picking up Josh Smith as well as getting Corey Brewer were Genius moves with a capital G. Anyone who doesn't see this don't know shit about the NBA, period.


I see when I brought up quoting your post saying you weren't really aware of who Reggie Jackson was, you dropped the _Basketball Guru_ act. Smart move.


Morey got Smith for nothing because the Pistons were actively trying to dump him and couldn't find a taker. He was absolutely not one of the Pistons best players. He thought he was though, which is the exact reason they did that deal. 

Also, you said Josh Smith saved their season. Season. Now we're talking about a specific playoff series instead of him saving their season like you said. Why?

Smith can get hot. I've seen him do it against the Pacers in a couple series. I also saw him shoot the Hawks out of said series against the Pacers. There's plenty of posters around here who wouldn't take Josh Smith, JR Smith, or a guy like Lance Stephenson for free. Quite often they do more harm than good for their squad. And that's the exact point why we say we wouldn't take them on our teams. There's GM's who agree, and others who always think they can fix said players. 

When Josh Smith, JR Smith, Lance Stephenson or JaVale McGee wins a title as a meaningful piece, I'll gladly eat my words.


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## Adam

hobojoe said:


> I am surprised Harris is back, especially with Skiles as the head coach. With that said, let's not forget that the Magic tried to give his money and roster spot to Paul Millsap and struck out. Option A _was _to let Harris go, so let's not gloss over that.
> 
> I really wish they had let him go too, especially with Aaron Gordon looking ready to play this season.


They probably sold him on some win-win bullshit. He gets the contract he wants and they get an asset for trade purposes. Sucks for Gordon and Hezonja because they need those minutes to develop.


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## R-Star

Adam said:


> They probably sold him on some win-win bullshit. He gets the contract he wants and they get an asset for trade purposes. Sucks for Gordon and Hezonja because they need those minutes to develop.


Exactly. I don't get this move unless they're going to package him somewhere.

He doesn't fit the team, and kind of made it clear he'd like to move on. Caught me by surprise when he signed.


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## seifer0406

R-Star said:


> I see when I brought up quoting your post saying you weren't really aware of who Reggie Jackson was, you dropped the _Basketball Guru_ act. Smart move.


It's really sad that you have to keep bringing up this one tidbit over and over again. I have a library of things that you were wrong about and you have this one tiny thing.

And btw, let me refresh your memory. In that thread I acknowledged that I wasn't aware that Jackson was averaging 16 points a game. I knew who he was but I didn't know he was having a breakout season. At which point our conversation shifted and we went on a multi page discussion where you tried to sell me that Perry Jones was a key contributor for the Thunder bench when in fact he didn't even play off the bench. You weren't even aware of Durant's absence where Jones was forced to be a starter. Of course this conversation ended in a barrel of laughs as a string of DNPs and garbage minutes became the norm for both Jones and Lamb. Things got so bad for Jones that he wasn't even playing much after Durant was out for the year. I don't know why you aren't shutting up after being so wrong. You can't possibly be more wrong about this. If we're in the business of arguing who knew more about the Thunder I don't even think it's comparable.




> Also, you said Josh Smith saved their season. Season. Now we're talking about a specific playoff series instead of him saving their season like you said. Why?


Without Josh Smith, Rockets lose in Conference semis and season ends. With Josh Smith, they move on into the conference finals. Is this that difficult to follow? 




> When Josh Smith, JR Smith, Lance Stephenson or JaVale McGee wins a title as a meaningful piece, I'll gladly eat my words.


I guess when you tell people that they don't value chemistry and how Josh Smith hurts chemistry and then he doesn't you're not going eat those words.

It's okay R-Star. I understand.


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## R-Star

seifer0406 said:


> It's really sad that you have to keep bringing up this one tidbit over and over again. I have a library of things that you were wrong about and you have this one tiny thing.
> 
> And btw, let me refresh your memory. In that thread I acknowledged that I wasn't aware that Jackson was averaging 16 points a game. I knew who he was but I didn't know he was having a breakout season. At which point our conversation shifted and we went on a multi page discussion where you tried to sell me that Perry Jones was a key contributor for the Thunder bench when in fact he didn't even play off the bench. You weren't even aware of Durant's absence where Jones was forced to be a starter. Of course this conversation ended in a barrel of laughs as a string of DNPs and garbage minutes became the norm for both Jones and Lamb. Things got so bad for Jones that he wasn't even playing much after Durant was out for the year. I don't know why you aren't shutting up after being so wrong. You can't possibly be more wrong about this. If we're in the business of arguing who knew more about the Thunder I don't even think it's comparable.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Without Josh Smith, Rockets lose in Conference semis and season ends. With Josh Smith, they move on into the conference finals. Is this that difficult to follow?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I guess when you tell people that they don't value chemistry and how Josh Smith hurts chemistry and then he doesn't you're not going eat those words.
> 
> It's okay R-Star. I understand.


Buddy, you literally said he saves their season, and then, after putting in an apostrophe, said he also had a good playoffs. So no, you were literally saying he saved their regular season.

And I didn't know Perry Jones was starting because Durant was injured? It's literally in multiple posts that I said that's why he was important. Because he was injury insurance. 

Now, did he play like absolute garbage when Durant got back and lose his role on the team entirely? Yea. Guy wasn't the important role player on the team I thought he was. And Lamb has probably been the biggest let down for guys I was rooting for in years. He has the body to be a great 2 guard in this league, yet he can't seem to put it together. I'm hoping a change of scenery jump starts him. I'm still crossing my fingers, but not holding my breath.

There's the difference though. I can say when I'm wrong. You say **** like "I wasn't wrong. They traded for Waiters which is the same!" No man. It's not. You were wrong. Really, really ****ing wrong. Hell, even in this thread there's been 2 posters to jump in saying they're surprised Harris is back in Orlando. Yet here you are, running your god damn mouth like you always do acting like I was dumb to say he'd be gone. 

There's a reason no one outside of myself and Irwin quote you. No one wants to talk to you. If anything, it's a huge insult to myself that I'm included in that list.


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## Floods

What is it with @XxIrvingxX and his need to drop into random threads and tell people to shut up?


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## R-Star

Floods said:


> What is it with @XxIrvingxX and his need to drop into random threads and tell people to shut up?


He's the enforcer around here. You don't watch it and he'll put you in your place man. 

I'd debate with him, but as he's already pointed out, I'm afraid of confrontation with other posters...


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## seifer0406

R-Star said:


> Buddy, you literally said he saves their season, and then, after putting in an apostrophe, said he also had a good playoffs. So no, you were literally saying he saved their regular season.
> 
> And I didn't know Perry Jones was starting because Durant was injured? It's literally in multiple posts that I said that's why he was important. Because he was injury insurance.
> 
> Now, did he play like absolute garbage when Durant got back and lose his role on the team entirely? Yea. Guy wasn't the important role player on the team I thought he was. And Lamb has probably been the biggest let down for guys I was rooting for in years. He has the body to be a great 2 guard in this league, yet he can't seem to put it together. I'm hoping a change of scenery jump starts him. I'm still crossing my fingers, but not holding my breath.
> 
> There's the difference though. I can say when I'm wrong. You say **** like "I wasn't wrong. They traded for Waiters which is the same!" No man. It's not. You were wrong. Really, really ****ing wrong. Hell, even in this thread there's been 2 posters to jump in saying they're surprised Harris is back in Orlando. Yet here you are, running your god damn mouth like you always do acting like I was dumb to say he'd be gone.
> 
> There's a reason no one outside of myself and Irwin quote you. No one wants to talk to you. If anything, it's a huge insult to myself that I'm included in that list.


Good, then say you're wrong instead of telling me that "Oh but everyone else was wrong TOO." Heres the difference between you and them. They give their point without telling people that they're idiots for disagreeing with them, you do. When you do something like that and then you end up being wrong (which comically this year is almost every single time) then I or somebody else will bring it out and swing it in front of your face and laugh at you.

It's funny that you are trying to save face by force-twisting something I said into something that clearly makes no sense. The Rockets regular season was never in danger you idiot, their post season was. It would be one thing if the Rockets were struggling and I said that Josh Smith turned it around when in fact somebody else did. The Rockets never actually struggled this year during the regular season. For them struggling is being 15 games over .500 instead of 25 games. For you to misunderstand the point just further shows how intellectually inept at basketball discussions. 

That's why I found it funny in the first place when people criticized the moves made by a GM of a team that was leading the conference at the time.


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## R-Star

seifer0406 said:


> Good, then say you're wrong instead of telling me that "Oh but everyone else was wrong TOO." Heres the difference between you and them. They give their point without telling people that they're idiots for disagreeing with them, you do. When you do something like that and then you end up being wrong (which comically this year is almost every single time) then I or somebody else will bring it out and swing it in front of your face and laugh at you.
> 
> It's funny that you are trying to save face by force-twisting something I said into something that clearly makes no sense. The Rockets regular season was never in danger you idiot, their post season was. It would be one thing if the Rockets were struggling and I said that Josh Smith turned it around when in fact somebody else did. The Rockets never actually struggled this year during the regular season. For them struggling is being 15 games over .500 instead of 25 games. For you to misunderstand the point just further shows how intellectually inept at basketball discussions.
> 
> That's why I found it funny in the first place when people criticized the moves made by a GM of a team that was leading the conference at the time.


Go back and read your post. You can try to wriggle out of it now, but you clearly said he saved their season, then went on to say he _also_ played well in the post season. Either you meant he saved their regular season like it was somehow in jeopardy (or course not), or you were being over the top dramatic (yep), or you can't form a cogent sentence (maybe). It has absolutely nothing to do with my reading comprehension. If you doubt that, go back and read it again. 

And please, don't try to align yourself with other posters. They stay away from you for a reason. Not one of them wants you acting like you know how they think. You're a ****ing slime ball. They don't think the way you do.


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## seifer0406

R-Star said:


> Go back and read your post. You can try to wriggle out of it now, but you clearly said he saved their season, then went on to say he _also_ played well in the post season. Either you meant he saved their regular season like it was somehow in jeopardy (or course not), or you were being over the top dramatic (yep), or you can't form a cogent sentence (maybe). It has absolutely nothing to do with my reading comprehension. If you doubt that, go back and read it again.
> 
> And please, don't try to align yourself with other posters. They stay away from you for a reason. Not one of them wants you acting like you know how they think. You're a ****ing slime ball. They don't think the way you do.





> Warning people about Josh Smith killing team chemistry and then watching him save the Rockets season and single handedly shoot the Rockets back into the conference finals.


sigh....

Whatever float your boat I guess. Anyone over the age of 10 can read this and come to the right conclusions. I feel like I don't need to further elaborate on this.

Just keep this in mind the next time you feel like jumping in when someone says something on these boards. Chances are they're right you're wrong and you should save everyone the agony of reading through your buffoonery.


----------



## R-Star

seifer0406 said:


> sigh....
> 
> Whatever float your boat I guess. Anyone over the age of 10 can read this and come to the right conclusions. I feel like I don't need to further elaborate on this.
> 
> Just keep this in mind the next time you feel like jumping in when someone says something on these boards. Chances are they're right you're wrong and you should save everyone the agony of reading through your buffoonery.


If I didn't jump in to tell you how stupid you are, who would you post with?

Honestly. List off a name of the guys you posts with back and forth here regularly. Or... is it just that you write stuff and maybe one out of ten posts gets a reply, and more often than not it's me telling you you're wrong?


Also, when Toby Harris is summarily sign and traded this summer, or by the deadline, what are you going to say then? Let me guess, we'll go into a long line of semantics and you'll still be right. Great. I just wanted to check ahead of time.


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## XxIrvingxX

Floods said:


> What is it with @XxIrvingxX and his need to drop into random threads and tell people to shut up?


Actually, I just wanted to use that video really badly for something on this site. Felt that was a good opportunity to do so.


----------

