# Christmas Break...reflectoins



## darth-horax (Nov 21, 2005)

Ok, so the Nuggs are now 18-11 (if I remember correctly) going into the XMass break.

Not bad, really...especially if you consider that they should have won about 3 games that htey didn't...and Melo is out this week.

I guarantee you that If Melo played tonight, we'd have beaten Portland. However, Portland is a good team. Much better than last season. 

So far we've seen Nene tear it up, Melo NOT tear it up sans one third quarter for the ages, Bird keep his head and game intact, Kleiza making a contribution, an dBillups emerging as an MVP candidate.

I think the Nuggs still need an insurance big man to make us a legitimate threat. When Nene went down tonight, I think we all held our breath. Good thing it was a superficial injury.

What are your thoughts on what the Nuggs are doing? Where are they going?

I think if Melo can get out of his slump and injury woes, 60 wins is a legitimate possibility.

hx


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## pac4eva5 (Dec 29, 2005)

we dont have the pieces to get a big man that can help us. maybe deke if were lucky but hes probably headed back to houston or out to boston.

id like us to make a play for anthony parker. hes 33, expiring, and probably not with toronto's future plans, especially if they continue to disappoint. kleiza and chucky should be enough. or kleiza, hunter, and a first. dahntay jones has done his damage. he sucks. anthony parker is just as good a defender and the best 3point shooter in the L. it makes sense.

salmons would be my number 2 guy. not as lethal a shooter, but a much better scorer/finisher.

but these last 6 games dont have me worried. melo was a complete tool for 3 of them and then obviously didnt play the last 2. chauncey struggled with his shot. those guys will get it turned around. thats fact.

nene is the only guy i worry about. he is so damn amazing when he is aggressive but he is really playing uninspired ball right now. he rarely tries to establish post position anymore and it seems he no longer boxes out. he also still leads ALL CENTERS in steals this season despite being pretty pathetic the lat 8 games in that category. i want more aggression from both sides of the ball. but i will give him a break, has he EVER played in december before? lol...

i still love this team and i think after these last 2, its obvious we are a better team than portland. i dont worry about utah. they have had the 3rd easiest schedule this season and have lost as many home games this season than all of last? the injury bug finally caught up with them. i have no sympathy.

merry christmas everybody.


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## pac4eva5 (Dec 29, 2005)

OKC bigs available. joe smith probably the easiest to acquire. id give up chucky or hunter and a pick of some sort for him. i doubt they trade collison. as long as its not kleiza, id do a joe smith trade. it would be nice to have a big knock down a shot every now and then...

i still think kleiza, a filler, and a 1st can land a much needed legit scorer.


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

Anthony Parker isn't a bad idea but you might want to rethink Salmons as the number 2 option. He is a pretty darn good defender. He can play multiple positions. He's under contract beyond this season and its very reasonable. Plus he just turned 29 so he's 4 or 5 years younger than AP. He's not on a very good team so it might be pretty normal to assume he's just getting lots of attempts but thats not fair. Salmons is shooting 50% from the field close to 41% from downtown (already made 35 3s) and 81% from the ft line. Overall I know the name Salmons surprises some posters that I speak so highly of him. But he looks clearly like option number one based on his performace these last couple years with the Kings.


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## pac4eva5 (Dec 29, 2005)

the fact that parker is 33 and expiring is a good thing. i want JR to start some day. 2 more years of salmons wouldnt let that happen. parker is just as good a defender and easily the best 3 point shooter in the league the last 3-4 years. he could do everything jones is doing right now except shoot a killer % from wide open 3s. seriously, hed get even more wide open looks for denver than in toronto imo.

it surprises me that salmons is shooting 41% from three. is that accurate? that might change my mind. although salmons is a guy who needs the ball to be effective and he might hurt chemistry with the starting unit. parker would just play D and then run to the corner and wait (like jones, except actually make a shot).


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

the stat is legit. salmons is money from 3. all things considered salmons is not really dominating the ball or taking a lot of shots to score his 20 points a game because he does it on 50% shooting. He can drive, slash, pull up, or score off a kickout/pass. Just overall more effective. 
Anthony Parker does have a nice 3 point stroke but overall his 39% and 9.1 points is not that effective for the Raptors who aren't exactly a great team either. I'd say Salmons is a better defender. He's a better rebounder and passer. Parker would be a nice fit but overall Salmons a better one. Why lease Parker when you can add Salmons and still have the trade except. If anything Salmon's presence would push JR to work hard on both sides of the ball. 
I don't care if Smith starts or not but I just want him to get consistent minutes. Scoring off the bench is important for a contending team.


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## pac4eva5 (Dec 29, 2005)

all good points. salmons would change a lot more of the offense and that scares me, where as everything would be the exact same if we brought in parker. parker does spread out the floor 10x better than salmons does. parker has averaged 44% over the last 3 years from outside. thats ridiculous! he took over 300 attempts last season too! (260 the year before that) salmons is at just under 40% and that is a mega career high. hes a 34% three point shooter for his career, his best season being under 36% 2 years ago. 

defensively its a wash. maybe a slight edge to salmons because of his length on 3's and even sometimes 4's.

i dunno, i like keeping the team almost the exact same but adding the best three point shooter in the entire league to the starting unit. just seems easier...


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

Change can be good. And if you are going to change might as well do it in a year of major change. Change has worked pretty well so far. Dumped Camby on his head. Sent me myself and Iverson packing for the golden boy. No offense to Jones or Carter but I'd rather see those minutes go to John Salmons. I say that as a guy not that just checks his stats but watches him on a consistent basis. What could 2009 look like?
2008/09 Trades: John Salmons and Sheldon Williams for Chucky Atkins and Steven Hunter
Salmons and Miller are both reportedly on the block in Sactown.
Kleiza, Samb, and Weems for Sean Williams and Jarvis Hayes
Summer 09 Trades
Balkman, Trade Exception, Future First Rounder for S&T with Lakers for Lamar Odom
MLE Signing
Either, Villanueva, Varejao, Bass, or go older with Rasheed Wallace, 
C-Nene, Kmart, Birdman
PF- Odom, Villanueva, Sean Williams
SF Melo, Jarvis Hayes
SG- Salmons, J.R Smith
PG- Billups A. Carter
The 2009/10 roster really could look something like this.


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## pac4eva5 (Dec 29, 2005)

dude, i live in sacramento. ive seen plenty of salmons and i love him too. but why change now? we did those moves at the beginning. we are currently winning 70% of our games since the billups trade. we are on pace for 56 wins. no need to change too much at the moment and parker would be a perfect guy to come in and not miss a beat.

another thing that i like about parker over salmons is that it would be ok to start and play him only 15 minutes a game if JR gets hot. where as salmons needs 30 minutes a night to be happy. of course salmons is the superior player, but imo, parker is the best fit for this season and maybe a cheap contract afterwards...

i thought of this earlier:
den in: parker
tor in: salmons
sac in: kleiza, hunter, den. 1st, tor. 2nd

if anybody turned that deal down they would be retarded. toronto gets a perfect wing player they desperately need. we get an awesome fit. sac gets a late first and a decent 2nd, plus a young guy like kleiza that they have already had interest in. plus they get rid of salmons 3 year deal left. lets face it, kevin martin with a 6 year deal, garcia with 5 years, and rookie donte greene for 2 more i believe. there is a log jam there.


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

I'd rather just keep the draft pick and Linas Kleiza instead of just leasing Anthony Parker for a year. Kleiza plays an important role off the bench. I'm not sure the team would get much better it would just be different. Salmons does require minutes that's true. Especially if Kleiza gets moved it would be nice to have Salmons. He could start at the two... but could also see minutes at point guard and small forward. It would cut back on Anthony Carter's minutes and practically eliminate Jones' minutes. The Nuggets would not be retarded for turning that deal down.
I wouldn't add Parker at the expense of giving up Kleiza especially with the recent Sactown rumors suggesting they'd like to part with Salmons (and Miller for that matter). Expiring deals and a first rounder and you have Salmons with Kleiza still on the roster. 
You've got to look past 3 point shooting as well. Parker's overall field goal percentage is in chucker territory this year. No offense to Anthony Parker but I'd rather add John Salmons, Sheldon Williams, Chuck Hayes, and Sean Williams for Chucky Atkins, Steven Hunter, Linas Kleiza, Samb, Weems and a future first. Basically all you give up in basketball value is Kleiza and a draft pick.


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## pac4eva5 (Dec 29, 2005)

obviously purely debatable. parker would have nothing important to do except play defense and shoot the open 3/midrange, which he is undoubtedly capable of doing consistantly. it wouldnt be a lease any more than keeping kleiza who is also expiring and looking for a much bigger deal next season than parker would ever ask for. 

and imho, kleiza is borderline useless. hes extremely overrated in every aspect of the game. he is NOT a three point shooter no matter what anybody thinks. hes a ****ty defender, horrible rebounder, an extremely poor ball handler with no left hand whatsoever. and he is maybe one of the worst passers ive ever seen. i swear dude's career high in assists is 3. pathetic. when he asks for mle money next year im going to barf. and he'll probably get it based on "potenetial". he has hit his ceiling. hes good for one solid game every 6. no thanks.

bringing in parker would not only take away (hopefully) all of dahntay's minutes, it would also assure balkman get more minutes which is a win-win all the way around.

plus, kleiza + hunter for parker saves us nearly one milliion. that would put us so close to getting under the luxery tax line its not even funny. trade atkins for a small TE and we are tax free. its worth the 1st rounder in every way, especially getting rid of hunter who has one more year left. hunter might be the absolute most useless player in the entire league.

lol i dont know why im arguing this. id love salmons as well. still, parker would be as perfect a player right now than anybody. 70% winning percentage already. thats crazy! throw in the league's best deep shooter, less dahntay jones, and more balkman, and we will absolutely see big time rewards...


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## darth-horax (Nov 21, 2005)

Nuggs want a big, and Salmons doesn't give them that. I like the guy, too, but it's not going to happen.

I'd love for the Nuggs to grab Collison, and the abundance of bigs in OkCity might make that feasible...especially since they want PG's,and we've got two that can go in AC and Chucky Atkins.

Keep Kleiza, trade Chucky and his leadership and 3 pt shot to OKCTY for hopefully Collison, and we've got a solid post rotation. Probably end up with Joe Smith, who isn't bad, but definitely not a beast anymore.


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

My whole point has been the Nuggets have enough pieces to land a big plus something else. That means you could trade with the kings and the sonics if you so desired. If you already had Salmons you could ship off Atkins, Jones, and Weems for Joe Smith. The Kings would likely accept Steven Hunter and Linas Kleiza for John Salmons. 
Considering the role Karl is likely to give a new big coming it I'm not sure if it matters who it is so much. Meaning they could just take back Sheldon Williams in a deal with the Kings. 
If this backup big is going to average 10 minutes and play about half the games I don't think the difference between Joe Smith and Sheldon Williams matters so much. If they are going to give the big significant minutes then trade for Joe Smith and John Salmons.


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## pac4eva5 (Dec 29, 2005)

darth-horax said:


> Nuggs want a big, and Salmons doesn't give them that. I like the guy, too, but it's not going to happen.
> 
> I'd love for the Nuggs to grab Collison, and the abundance of bigs in OkCity might make that feasible...especially since they want PG's,and we've got two that can go in AC and Chucky Atkins.
> 
> Keep Kleiza, trade Chucky and his leadership and 3 pt shot to OKCTY for hopefully Collison, and we've got a solid post rotation. Probably end up with Joe Smith, who isn't bad, but definitely not a beast anymore.


collison is the last guy i want on that team. have u seen his contract? its not even worth talking about since we would never make a move to get him.

as far as bigs go, there isnt a single guy out there that can help us win a title if nene goes down (other than maybe sheed who is a reach right now). i hate the argument that we should get a big in case nene goes down. why? the season is already over if that happens. nobody other than sheed could stpe right in and not make us worse.

now...are there some bigs who can give nene less minutes and add less risk to his health? sure. but are there players worth it? birdman is a decent backup center. joe smith would help a bit. david lee is still being talked about apparently. dikembe would be nice for the minimum.

but lets face it, nobody is gonna fill in for nene. we need him. it was obvious vs atlanta. does collison, smith, dikembe, juwan howard make us win tonight? of course not.

we need to be on the phones with petrie and colangelo 24/7. its obvious what happens to this team when melo and JR struggle. we need a third scorer.


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## pac4eva5 (Dec 29, 2005)

and no, kleiza and hunter would never land salmons. noitall, u dont understand how useless hunter is. he is the least tradable player in the entire league. he still has one more year left. he wont play. and hes worth almost 4 million. its bad. its debatable that kleiza + hunter + *even a first round pick* would land him


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