# Nene or Gooden



## RunToFreeForFly (Jul 16, 2003)

People about Nene more, but Gooden's stat better

what do u think?


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## bullet (Jul 1, 2003)

nene


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## Jeffey Dahmer (Jul 31, 2003)

I say Nene.
Goodens good, and will probably end up being real good, but he'll never be anything special. Nene on the other hand, has great size, lots of athleticism, and unlimited potential.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>RunToFreeForFly</b>!
> People about Nene more, but Gooden's stat better
> 
> what do u think?


For me it would be based on need. I think both will be very good. I think Nene will always be a better rebounder and shotblocker, but Gooden will always be the better scorer of the two.


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## O-Town Playa (Jun 24, 2003)

Gooden puts up better stats and always will. Plus you can tell he's bulked up a little since last season. In those jersey pics his arms are the size of Gaines' head. 

I don't see what's so great about Nene. If Gooden will never be anything "special", then neither will Nene. :| I do believe Gooden can become an All-Star in the East however.


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## jokeaward (May 22, 2003)

I'd need to examine Nene more.

It depends. Which conference? What role?


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## Pinball (Aug 3, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>RunToFreeForFly</b>!
> People about Nene more, but Gooden's stat better
> 
> what do u think?


Right now it is definately Gooden. Gooden is a solid player right now and can become very good if he just bulks up a little. He's a talented offensive player and has a knack for grabbing boards. He'll probably never become a physical force down low but he does have some nice skills. I'm not sure about Nene. I've never actually seen the kid play. Everything I know is based on scouting reports and hearsay. From what I've heard, he's bigger, stronger, and more athletic than just about any 4 in the league. Looking at his stats is also seems like he's a very capable rebounder and shotblocker. However, I don't know his good his offensive skills are just yet. He doesn't have the touch that Gooden has but supposedly he's got a nice lowpost game. He's probably behind Gooden in alot of other areas as well considering he's an international player. If he develops I think he's clearly got the better upside. His upside seems to be as high as anyone's in the league. However, you never know how these international players are going to pan out. With Gooden you know that he's going to be a very good player in this league. In that case, if I were a team that needed to win now I'd pick Gooden. If I were the Cavs or Nuggets and could afford to wait 4-5 years and let a kid develop I'd take Nene.


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## MJG (Jun 29, 2003)

I don't think that either will be special, but Nene will be a better player. Nene has that interior presence that teams always seem to want, and he has a high skill level as well. I don't know if he'll put up better numbers than Gooden overall, but I think he'll be the more valuable player.


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## HEATLUNATIC (May 27, 2002)

Nene!


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## Hollis (Jun 4, 2002)

Andrew


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## Captain Obvious (Jun 15, 2003)

Gooden is definitely better than Nene right now. He's got a much better perimeter game and he has a myriad of post moves. Sure, he needs to get stronger but he's still very young. Also, Nene is not a better rebounder than Gooden, whoever said that was crazy. Gooden averaged nearly 13 rebounds a game in the playoffs being guarded by Ben Wallace. It would shock me if Gooden didn't get 10 boards a game next year playing a full year in the East. Nene will be a very good player in the future, and he has more "upside" than Gooden, but I still think Gooden is and will be better.


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>O-Town Playa</b>!
> Gooden puts up better stats and always will. Plus you can tell he's bulked up a little since last season. In those jersey pics his arms are the size of Gaines' head.
> 
> I don't see what's so great about Nene. If Gooden will never be anything "special", then neither will Nene. :| I do believe Gooden can become an All-Star in the East however.


And you live in Orlando.

Anyway I'd take Nene. He put up good rookie numbers in the west, he's got mad athleticism and he's a good rebounder. His potential is more than Gooden's too, with his size and athleticism. We should be able to compare the two better later on though, because they've both only played one season and they're both gonna improve other parts of their games.


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## O-Town Playa (Jun 24, 2003)

> And you live in Orlando.


Oh, you can read Mr. Obvious, that's nice to know. What does that have to do with anything? I thought Gooden was a good rookie when he was in Memphis.

BTW, I agree that whoever thinks Nene is a better rebounder is crazy. Better blocker maybe, but not rebounder. Gooden is a shark on the boards. Considering what he did to Wallace as a rookie, there's no excuse for him not averaging a double double after this year (maybe even by the end of this year). With his size I think Nene will be the better low-post big man, but Gooden will always be the better scorer and rebounder regardless of potential, cause it's not like he's finished either.


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## Unlimitedgame (Jul 16, 2003)

*gooden*

Gooden is a BEAST on the glass when he is healthy. Not a bad offensive game. He is better now and always will be better than hillario


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>O-Town Playa</b>!
> 
> 
> Oh, you can read Mr. Obvious, that's nice to know. What does that have to do with anything? I thought Gooden was a good rookie when he was in Memphis.


All it means is that of course you're going to pick Gooden because you've seen more of him. You're going to know a lot more about his game than Nene's game, since you rarely ever see him on TV, unless you have satelite or something, because Nuggets games are never nationally televised.


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## O-Town Playa (Jun 24, 2003)

I do, actually. I didn't get to see many Nuggets games (didn't really want to see them anyway) but I watched more than most. I think Nene has potential, but I don't think he'll be the better overall player. Plus, if he gets a big increase of stats all of a sudden, it could be contributed to playing on a bad team.


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## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

both are and will be good players but i would pick nene. nene can be a dominating defender and rebounder with gives a little offense. gooden is a lot more of an offensive player. so it really just depends on what you prefer. and i would pick the good defending and rebounding big man because it's eay to find little guys who can score.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Budweiser_Boy</b>!
> 
> 
> And you live in Orlando.
> ...



Can you explain why you think Nene has greater potential?

Gooden has exceptional athleticism as well. Nene is bigger with longer arms, but he isn't more "athletic" than Gooden.

Both guys are good rebounders. I see Nene more as a power rebounder, getting rebounds with his size and wingspan. Gooden is more of a Rodman type rebounder, seems to have that "knack" for being in the right place at the right time.

I'm just wondering why Nene has more potential. I see Nene as having more potential of eventually being a C, unlike Gooden. But at the PF spot, I don't see any more potential in Nene than Gooden.


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## MiamiHeat03 (Mar 28, 2003)

Gooden


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## mo76 (Jun 13, 2003)

I don't get to see the nuggets to often so I am not that farmiliar with Nene. I like gooden because he is a *ferocious* rebounder and has a more polished offensive game.


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## dmilesai (Jul 19, 2002)

Hilario. He did good for a rookie playing center in the west (10/6), and he will keep improving. He plays better defense than Drew, but as said earlier, Drew has a knack for getting rebounds. Gooden definitely impressed me in the playoffs though, but I'd rather have Nene than Drew.


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## NugzFan (Jul 26, 2002)

its insulting nene is being compared to gooden. 

nene vs amare is much better.


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## Captain Obvious (Jun 15, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>NugzFan</b>!
> its insulting nene is being compared to gooden.
> 
> nene vs amare is much better.


:laugh: We can always count on you to make a comment like that.

Look at the numbers. Gooden's were better even though he played fewer minutes while playing on the better teams. He also stepped his game up in the playoffs very impressively for a young player.


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## sheefo13 (Jul 13, 2002)

i say nene, i think nene is going to be the better player because rebounding and shot blocking a great trait to have in the nba. he can eventually become a better scorer and better post moves but you really cant teach how to become a great shotnlocker and rebounder, its bout who wants it more


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## NugzFan (Jul 26, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>MagicStick</b>!
> 
> 
> :laugh: We can always count on you to make a comment like that.
> ...


i could care less. gooden played with tmac vs the east frontcourts which are garbage. nene played out west with NO help, NO pg, didnt know english and no college ball. 

nene better than gooden any day. and thats just now. in a few years the comparison wont exist at all. 

for now, nene vs amare is a comparison worthy of making.


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## TheMatrix31 (May 28, 2002)

NENE


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## 1 Penny (Jul 11, 2003)

Nene is a potential

17.5 ppg | 9 rpg | 2 apg | 1.5 bpg | .5 spg

type of player...

Gooden is a potentially the same. But Howard is in, so he might need to play PF, SF and even C to get minutes.


So Its even right now.

I pick Gooden, mainly coz I like his game... and his gear.


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## pizzoni (Mar 27, 2003)

*Nene and Amare are a better comparision*



> Look at the numbers. Gooden's were better even though he played fewer minutes while playing on the better teams. He also stepped his game up in the playoffs very impressively for a young player.


It is funny, but when ESPN and NBA.com make this comparision nobody here make fun of them.

And Denver (I know that they are biased), people (their coach and GM) think they are equal.

And what GM do you think would trade Nene for Gooden straight up?

I sure that if Kiki want to trade Nene for Gooden Gabriel would do it in a heart beat...

Pizzoni


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## Like A Breath (Jun 16, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>NugzFan</b>!
> 
> 
> i could care less. gooden played with tmac vs the east frontcourts which are garbage. nene played out west with NO help, NO pg, didnt know english and no college ball.


Oh, dominating Ben Wallace in 4 games was garbage?


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## Cochise (Apr 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>NugzFan</b>!
> 
> 
> i could care less. gooden played with tmac vs the east frontcourts which are garbage. nene played out west with NO help, NO pg, didnt know english and no college ball.
> ...



What a homer. Nene vs. Amare is a joke. Comparisons like that are only valid when a swap trade wouldn't be laughable -- which Nene for Amare would be.

Why do people think Nene can board or block shots? He couldn't sniff a double-double all year.

He's a banger and hustler with some potential. Don't get carried away.


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## Captain Obvious (Jun 15, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>NugzFan</b>!
> 
> 
> i could care less. gooden played with tmac vs the east frontcourts which are garbage. nene played out west with NO help, NO pg, didnt know english and no college ball.
> ...


Gooden played the majority of the year in the West also, so that argument isn't valid. Also, Nene didn't play college ball but he did play professional ball unlike Gooden. Right now, Gooden's offensive game is light years ahead of Nene. Nene has no perimeter game and gets the majority of his points off of putbacks and fastbreaks. Also, Gooden is the better rebounder contrary to what a lot of people have said. If you've seen Gooden play you know he is ferocious on the boards.


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## c_dog (Sep 15, 2002)

Gooden pretty much saved the magic last season. The magic was barely hanging on to their playoff spot until gooden came along. Ever since they obtained Gooden the magic became a much better team, and almost eliminated Pistons in the first round! And Gooden was a hero in that series, dominating Piston's best player.

Gooden is a WAY better player. His stats show that he's lightyears ahead of Nene. Heck, his stats are a lot closer to Amare's than Nene!!! Amare vs. Nene is a joke. Only Nuggets fan would think Nene is actually in the same league as Amare and Gooden, who were both the best rookies last season.


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## JOHNNY_BRAVisimO (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Budweiser_Boy</b>!
> 
> 
> All it means is that of course you're going to pick Gooden because you've seen more of him. You're going to know a lot more about his game than Nene's game, since you rarely ever see him on TV, unless you have satelite or something, because Nuggets games are never nationally televised.


.



look who's talking, your a denver fan accusing an orlando fan of being biased


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## JOHNNY_BRAVisimO (Jun 11, 2002)

Gooden will be putting up 19 and 10 next year(elton brand numbers), nana will be putting up 13 and 9(troy murphy numbers). The reason gooden's rebounding numbers werent great while at memphis was because he was forced to play out of position with gasol, wright and swift in the way. When he was traded, he was able to play his natural position and averaged 8.4 rebounds a game.


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

i'd pick Nene. 
as someone suggested, Nene has good rebounding and blocking prowess, and his offensive will be improved through coaching and practice. and he plays alot more around the rim than Gooden does, which is what i want from a PF or C.


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## Captain Obvious (Jun 15, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>murdarous</b>!
> i'd pick Nene.
> as someone suggested, Nene has good rebounding and blocking prowess, and his offensive will be improved through coaching and practice. and he plays alot more around the rim than Gooden does, which is what i want from a PF or C.


This is a criticism I hear a lot about Gooden, but in his defense he was forced to play out of position a lot of times, especially on Memphis. Like most of the other posters you assume that Nene is the better rebounder, but that's simply not true, look at the numbers, especially in the playoffs when Gooden got 12.7 rebounds a game against Ben Wallace. Finally, both players aren't good shot-blocking big men; they both averaged less than one a game so that can't be counted as an advantage for Nene.


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>MagicStick</b>!
> 
> 
> This is a criticism I hear a lot about Gooden, but in his defense he was forced to play out of position a lot of times, especially on Memphis. Like most of the other posters you assume that Nene is the better rebounder, but that's simply not true, look at the numbers, especially in the playoffs when Gooden got 12.7 rebounds a game against Ben Wallace. Finally, both players aren't good shot-blocking big men; they both averaged less than one a game so that can't be counted as an advantage for Nene.


barring this, i'd still pick Nene. he's your prototypical PF and will have more upside than Gooden will.


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## The MAgiC (Aug 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>murdarous</b>!
> and will have more upside than Gooden will.


And how do you know this?

I'd personally much rather have Gooden. He doesn't need to be a big shot blocker or be absolutely dominant in the paint, because he's not a C, he's a PF. He scores and rebounds his *** off, hell, he'll probably be the best rebounder in the league in a few years. He averaged like 13 in the playoffs. He's also quicker and more athletic. He's everything you could want in a PF. And I just don't think Nene's stats will ever come close to Gooden's.


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## bananas (Apr 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Like A Breath</b>!
> 
> 
> Oh, dominating Ben Wallace in 4 games was garbage?


selective memory.. i won't deny that ben and drew were going at it all series but it seemed to slip peoples mind that wallace was injured the majority of that series. in that series, drew averaged 14/12/.8 while a not-100% ben averaged 11/18/3.

back on topic though, this isnt a horrible debate between nene and gooden. though they play in different confrences which strikes against nene, as well as nene having no star player on his side. nene is faster and more athletic than drew, not sure where some people think that gooden is close to nene there. however gooden is of course a greater offensively polished player. on the defensive side there is no doubt nene has the edge in every catergory. strong rebounding is their most similar facet, while its close to even now, imo nene will gain the edge in the upcoming years. both bring great energy to their teams and i would like to have both on my favorite squad, but taking into present/future considerations i would take nene. though you can't go wrong with either.


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## texan (Jul 10, 2003)

gooden as of right now and in the future i believe gooden will still be better but it will be close. gooden wins on offense whereas nene wins on D


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## Pay Ton (Apr 18, 2003)

I agree that Gooden is the better player than Nene now, but saying that he DOMINATED Wallace in the playoffs is just garbage. He played WELL against Wallace, but there was NO WAY he dominated Wallace.


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## DexNeffect (Jul 26, 2003)

i suppose nene is the better shotblocker, however, playing on denver when there were people like junior harrington(?) guarding opposing point guards, he shouldve had about 15 blocks a game if hes as good as people make him out to be. gooden is a pretty good shot blocker because of his jumping ability and feel for the game, he played at kansas remember(and remember that game saving block in what i think was the playoffs, that was sick) rebounding is a wash probably. gooden is probably a more natural rebounder, but maybe not as long as nene. on offense its clear that gooden is the better player, and probably always will be. and whats all this garbage about nene being able to learn how to play offense, so he will be better because he already can block/defend/rebound? so what? people cant learn how to do those things? seems to me if they are a natural thing that people just have that offense is too. really really bad opinion on that. so anyway, id take gooden at the moment. hes an excellent complimentary player to t-mac. hopefully him and howard can get along next year and the magicv can do things.


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## RoddneyThaRippa (Jun 28, 2003)

Nene is better. What do you all know anyone? It's not like any of you actually watches the Nuggets. If you did, you'd realize Nene is better. Gooden is good, yeah. He'll be a good player for years to come. But the scary thing is Nene is almost if not as quick as Gooden while being 20-25 pounds heavier. Seriously. Watch a Nuggets game and then tell me who is better. Nene kills Gooden.


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## The MAgiC (Aug 3, 2003)

Yeah, the guy with the worse stats kills Gooden.  Give me a break.


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## TMOD (Oct 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>The MAgiC</b>!
> Yeah, the guy with the worse stats kills Gooden.  Give me a break.


The stats aren't far apart, and some would argue that Nene would have been more productive if he had been in the East at the end of the season. It isn't as if the statistical gap is huge.

As of now, Gooden is better. He can score on several offensive moves, and is also a good hustle man and rebounder. Nene, is more raw, but the most attractive thing with him, is that he has a perfect build, and athleticism, for a power forward. He is ideal in that respect, and down the road, that should lend to him being a more dominant big man than Gooden, although scoring and perimeter skills will not be in Nene's favor, ever, I suspect. Gooden is talented enough to be a big scorer, but in a league full of scorers, I think Nene's size makes his potential more appealing to most people.


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## dsakilla (Jun 15, 2003)

I think Nene has more potential since it was his first year playing American ball, but Gooden was better last year. The only thing about Gooden is that he wasn't doing good in Memphis, but when he got traded and started playing with argueably the best perimeter player in the game, (McGrady) his stats shot up, and he played with more confidence. So who really knows what Nene would do if he played with a top-notch perimeter scorer.


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## Wilt_The_Stilt (Jun 7, 2002)

Scoring: Gooden
-This is pretty obvious. Gooden has a many more post moves, and even has an outside stroke. Nene doesn't come close.

Rebounding: Gooden
-Drew grabbed as many boards as Nene when he played SF for Memphis (which is in the WEST)...and when he was healthy as a Magic, playing at his natural spot (4) the gap between them grew even larger.

Potential: Tie
-Yes, Nene has the better frame for PF, but is he ever going to do something with it? He doesn't have the desire of Drew, and can't Drew get bigger? Which would eliminate some of Nene's advantage. Only drawback with Drew is that I can see him getting in trouble with the law.


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## The MAgiC (Aug 3, 2003)

Getting in trouble with the law? Gee, you hit ONE person in the head with an ashtray and...  

btw, Drew has gotten bigger since last season, you can tell in the new jersey photos.


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## NugzFan (Jul 26, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Like A Breath</b>!
> 
> 
> Oh, dominating Ben Wallace in 4 games was garbage?


:yes:


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## NugzFan (Jul 26, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Cochise</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


uh, the nuggets wouldnt dare trade nene for amare. so i could care less what phoenix does.

nene can board. if you chose not to believe that, you are at fault and i thus laugh at you like this:

:laugh:


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## NugzFan (Jul 26, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>MagicStick</b>!
> 
> 
> Gooden played the majority of the year in the West also, so that argument isn't valid. Also, Nene didn't play college ball but he did play professional ball unlike Gooden. Right now, Gooden's offensive game is light years ahead of Nene. Nene has no perimeter game and gets the majority of his points off of putbacks and fastbreaks. Also, Gooden is the better rebounder contrary to what a lot of people have said. If you've seen Gooden play you know he is ferocious on the boards.


he played half west half east. so it does matter. 

brazilian league is not as good as the ncaa.

nene also doesnt know english which hurt.

and yes gooden has a better o game right now and yet hes still not a better player overall. wait til nene learns the US game and improves his offensive game. no contest.

thus, the comparison is a joke and one only magic fans can dream of. so keep dreamin.


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## NugzFan (Jul 26, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>c_dog</b>!
> Gooden pretty much saved the magic last season. The magic was barely hanging on to their playoff spot until gooden came along. Ever since they obtained Gooden the magic became a much better team, and almost eliminated Pistons in the first round! And Gooden was a hero in that series, dominating Piston's best player.
> 
> Gooden is a WAY better player. His stats show that he's lightyears ahead of Nene. Heck, his stats are a lot closer to Amare's than Nene!!! Amare vs. Nene is a joke. Only Nuggets fan would think Nene is actually in the same league as Amare and Gooden, who were both the best rookies last season.


what a joke. gooden is nothing compared to nene. put nene on the magic and he puts up FAR FAR better numbers. he had no help last year at all, played on a team that slowed the game down (less shots), didnt know english, had no pg help, had few plays called for him and yet still did better than gooden. gooden is average. nene will be great.

nene vs amare is a better comparison. this thread is insulting to nene. 

the fact that you even put gooden up with amare and nene is helarious! best rookies? he was NEVER talked about. theres a reason for it! :laugh: 

owned.


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## NugzFan (Jul 26, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>JOHNNY_BRAVisimO</b>!
> .
> 
> 
> ...


exactly. i know what im talking about and he doesnt. go talk to him. hes the one that needs help.


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## NugzFan (Jul 26, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>The MAgiC</b>!
> 
> 
> And how do you know this?
> ...


wow really? you would? lol. gooden is an average PF with far less potential than nene. again, the comparison is only being done to humor you. plus its a good way to waste time and make fun of gooden. 

more athletic? lol. yet another poster loses complete credibility. too bad.


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## NugzFan (Jul 26, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>JOHNNY_BRAVisimO</b>!
> Gooden will be putting up 19 and 10 next year(elton brand numbers), nana will be putting up 13 and 9(troy murphy numbers). The reason gooden's rebounding numbers werent great while at memphis was because he was forced to play out of position with gasol, wright and swift in the way. When he was traded, he was able to play his natural position and averaged 8.4 rebounds a game.


:laugh: 

bye bye credibility! lol. what a shame. yet another poster gone to waste.


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## NugzFan (Jul 26, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>The MAgiC</b>!
> Yeah, the guy with the worse stats kills Gooden.  Give me a break.


oops. wrong again. check the #s.

taking into account teammate help, opposition skills level, cultural barriers, offensive chances and potential, again its not close. keep believing what you want but when you decide you care what the truth is in the debate, nene beats gooden hands down. but living next to disney world i do understand this facination with fantasy land.


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## NugzFan (Jul 26, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>dsakilla</b>!
> I think Nene has more potential since it was his first year playing American ball, but Gooden was better last year. The only thing about Gooden is that he wasn't doing good in Memphis, but when he got traded and started playing with argueably the best perimeter player in the game, (McGrady) his stats shot up, and he played with more confidence. So who really knows what Nene would do if he played with a top-notch perimeter scorer.


melo... :yes:


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## NugzFan (Jul 26, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Wilt_The_Stilt</b>!
> Scoring: Gooden
> -This is pretty obvious. Gooden has a many more post moves, and even has an outside stroke. Nene doesn't come close.
> 
> ...


potential? lol. not. even. close. 

desire of drew? lol! 

what a joke. i love this board!


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## DexNeffect (Jul 26, 2003)

what about the fact that BECAUSE nene playede with far less talent, he shouldve had a lot more blocked shots, considering the fact that all those point guards(and hey, 2s 3s and 4s) slicing into the lane shouldve given him a lot more opportunities to block shots


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>JOHNNY_BRAVisimO</b>!
> .
> 
> 
> ...


Actually I'm a Raptors fan... but whatever. And if you read my post, I wasn't accusing him of being biased because he's a Magic fan. I accused him of being biased on the assumption that he didn't get Nuggets games as they were not nationally televised, which was false. So I stand corrected... now what's your problem?


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## The MAgiC (Aug 3, 2003)

Oh dear God, that was easily the biggest pile of spam I've ever seen on a message board at one time.  Was that a joke? Some of that was downright hilarious. Spammers shouldn't comment on other poster's credibility, especially very biased spammers like yourself. You said this thread is insulting to Nene, well your posts were insulting to everyone's intelligence. You could have just said you thought Nene was the better player and it would have been perfectly acceptable, but you just made a big fool of yourself instead. Congratulations Nugz! :laugh:

I would actually try to correct everything WRONG that he said, but there was just too much. :sour:


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## TMOD (Oct 12, 2002)

To the poster who said Nene did not block the amount of shots he should (/could) have on the Nuggets, consider this:

The Nugz were a good defensive team, and played a slowed down game on both ends of the court. Lorinza Harrington is a good defender, despite what has been said in this thread. Nene has been at center, and defends all the top post players. Camby is the weakside help shotblocker, because Nene, along with Howard, can better defend the good big men straight up. Nene's steals indicated that he plays defense with his hands and position, as well. If Nene played PF beside, say, Brad Miller (who the Nugz didn't end up signing, obviously)...I think top 15 in blocks for Nene is easily possible. With his quickness, athleticism, size, and wingspan, IMO, there is no question he would rack up the blocks at PF, playing against smaller, instead of bigger guys, and if he didn't have a Duncan, Wallace, Webber every night to stick to.


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## RoddneyThaRippa (Jun 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>The MAgiC</b>!
> Oh dear God, that was easily the biggest pile of spam I've ever seen on a message board at one time.  Was that a joke? Some of that was downright hilarious. Spammers shouldn't comment on other poster's credibility, especially very biased spammers like yourself. You said this thread is insulting to Nene, well your posts were insulting to everyone's intelligence. You could have just said you thought Nene was the better player and it would have been perfectly acceptable, but you just made a big fool of yourself instead. Congratulations Nugz! :laugh:
> 
> I would actually try to correct everything WRONG that he said, but there was just too much. :sour:


He didn't make a fool of himself. Everything he said was right. How many Nuggets games did you watch? One, two, five? Nene is and will be a better player. Period. I'm being objective too. I like Gooden. I think he's a good player and will be for years to come. But Nene has exceptional defensive talent and the physical and athletic skills to be a force on the offensive end. Like I said, Nene is probably as quick if not quicker than Gooden, and he's 20-25 pounds heavier. Quit being homers. Nene is better.


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## The MAgiC (Aug 3, 2003)

I think THAT was a joke too.  He didn't make a fool of himself? Coulda fooled me! Stop being homers... ROFL :laugh:

btw, I watched about 12 Nuggets games, throughout different parts of the season, not a lot but more than most people would care to watch of the worst team in the league, so don't question whether I know what I'm talking about. Because unlike you two, I don't praise one and make the other look like dog food. :| They're both good players with potential and comparable stats, but the arguement for Nene you two are making is laughable. "He's better cause I say so!!!" "Why is Nene being compared to Gooden? He should be compared to Chamberlain dammit!!!" :laugh:


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## RoddneyThaRippa (Jun 28, 2003)

Post facts. You're ripping (well, attempting to) the posters, but you haven't said much about the posts. Quit hiding and tell us exactly why we're making you laugh. Oh, after of course you pick yourself off the ground. Cause I'm sure you're rolling on the floor. Yeah, right. Grow up...


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## TMOD (Oct 12, 2002)

> He didn't make a fool of himself. Everything he said was right. How many Nuggets games did you watch? One, two, five? Nene is and will be a better player. Period. I'm being objective too. I like Gooden. I think he's a good player and will be for years to come. But Nene has exceptional defensive _*talent*_ and the physical and athletic skills _*to be*_ a force on the offensive end. Like I said, Nene is probably as quick if not quicker than Gooden, and he's 20-25 pounds heavier. Quit being homers. Nene is better.


 You are showing signs of homerism...Nene is a better player, period? You cannot back that up. Gooden's offense has dimension that Nene isn't even beginning to have. Yes, Nene is good on defense, but even that difference isn't any bigger than the offensive is for Gooden, and yes, I too think Nene will be better in the future, but he just ain't better now. At best, equal.


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## The MAgiC (Aug 3, 2003)

Grow up... LMAO :laugh: Excuse me...

One of you is acting like a 12 yr old and the other one is backing him up with a homerized arguement. I don't know what's worse. :| I'm still trying to get over the "don't be a homer" comment from a homer. Oh God, you guys should be comedians.


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## RoddneyThaRippa (Jun 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>TMOD</b>!
> You are showing signs of homerism...Nene is a better player, period? You cannot back that up. Gooden's offense has dimension that Nene isn't even beginning to have. Yes, Nene is good on defense, but even that difference isn't any bigger than the offensive is for Gooden, and yes, I too think Nene will be better in the future, but he just ain't better now. At best, equal.


Gooden had two more points a game last year than Nene on a better team. Two. Nene didn't even know how to play offense. Gooden did. That should tell you everything right there. There is no doubt Gooden does have a dimension on offense that Nene doesn't but if that's worth two pionts, so be it. Gooden was at Kansas till his junior year, right (I could be wrong on that). Nene was playing in the prestigious Brazilian league. Gooden should be more advanced than Nene. But he only averaged a bucket more last year on better teams. So if you say Gooden has this big dimension that Nene can't touch, ok. But it isn't worth much more.


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## The MAgiC (Aug 3, 2003)

"Nene didn't even know how to play offense. Gooden did. That should tell you everything right there."

It does actually. But Nene is the better player? That's classic... :laugh:

I can't help but laugh at the way you're trying to convince us Nene is better while giving us reasons he isn't. He had no help on a worse team? Last time I checked if you're on a worse team you should have better stats. Gooden scored a bucket more with T-Mac taking 80% of the team's shots. Who took Nene's shots? Nobody. Nene has no clue how to play offense yet he's the better player? He's the better player PERIOD for no given reason? Alrighty then...

Oh yeah, and I don't have them, but it would be nice if someone could find Gooden's stats on the Magic. You know, the better team with the shot hogger. I'll bet they are a lot better than his overall stats...


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## RoddneyThaRippa (Jun 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>The MAgiC</b>!
> "Nene didn't even know how to play offense. Gooden did. That should tell you everything right there."
> 
> It does actually. But Nene is the better player? That's classic... :laugh:


You took it out of context. Nene didn't know how to play offense, Gooden did. But Gooden only averaged TWO, yeah, TWO, more points than Nene. You don't have a point man. Isn't it time for your bedtime, anyway? How is mom letting you up this late? A growing kid like you needs his sleep. Get to bed.


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## The MAgiC (Aug 3, 2003)

Ok daddy!


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## RoddneyThaRippa (Jun 28, 2003)

Right...........

My point was that you don't back your posts up with facts. Quit trolling. If you don't know **** about basketball, just don't post. It's that simple.


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>The MAgiC</b>!
> Oh yeah, and I don't have them, but it would be nice if someone could find Gooden's stats on the Magic. You know, the better team with the shot hogger. I'll bet they are a lot better than his overall stats...


With Memphis (WC) - 12.1 PPG, 5.8 RPG
With Orlando (EC) - 13.6 PPG, 8.4 RPG

So basically he scored a bit more and rebounded a lot more, mainly because of the weaker competition in the East.


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## spursindonesia (Mar 6, 2003)

I'm not saying that he is better, but for my team, i'd prefer Nene compared to Gooden to become our post player.

The Spurs play the two post player concept, without truly defining the C & PF specially, just two tall, athletic BIGs who could rebound, defend ( strong & weak side ), and score in the paint without getting in each other way. 

Nene is more versatile, so i like him more.:yes:


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## The MAgiC (Aug 3, 2003)

I'm not trolling, I obviously know more about basketball than you. You're the one that thinks being on the worse team is an excuse for having worse stats.


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## Enigma (Jul 16, 2002)

Here's the breakdown:
<br><image src=http://www.nba.com/media/act_drew_gooden.jpg>
Drew Gooden
Height-6'10"
Weight-230 lbs
Games Played-70
Games Started-47
Minutes Per Game-26.8
Field Goal Percentage-.457
Free Throw Percentage-.712
Three Point Percentage-.292
Offensive Rebound Per Game-2.30
Defensive Rebounds Per Game-4.20
Rebounds Per Game-6.50
Assists Per Game-1.2
Steals Per Game-.76
Blocks Per Game-.50
Turnovers Per Game-2.14
Personal Fouls Per Game-2.50
Points Per Game-12.5

Stats with just the Magic:
Games Played-19
Games Started-18
MPG-28.6
FG%-.498
FT%-.738
OFFREBPG-3.10
DEFREBPG-5.40
RPG-8.4
APG-1.1
SPG-.79
BPG-.68
TO-2.37
Fouls Per Game-2.70
PPG-13.6



<image src=http://www.nba.com/media/act_nene_hilario.jpg>
Nene Hilario
Height-6'9"
Weight-250 lbs
Games Played-80
Games Started-53
Minutes/G-28.2
FG%-.519
FT%-.578
3PT%-.000
OFF-2.6
DEF-3.5
TOT-6.10
APG-1.9
SPG-1.59
BPG-.81
TO-2.26
Fouls/Game-3.70
PPG-10.5


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## Kyle (Jul 1, 2003)

Why are people even talking about this. Look what Gooden did in the playoffs last year against Ben Wallace. Wallace is one of the top 5 PFs in the league and Gooden was a rookie. Now, I know that Hilario was good at the start of the season and got a lot of buzz throughout but, he's not anywhere good as Drew Gooden IE being a presence on the court and defensively.


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## STING (May 29, 2002)

I'm tired of people saying Gooden isn't anything special. Watch him play before you say this. Sure I don't really know if you have ever seen him play. But I have an overwhelming feeling in my head telling me that you haven't.  Gooden is the type of player that makes tweeners look good. He has shown that he can play the post, but what people often discredit him for, he uses as an advantage. For example, instead of using power in the low post and backing down defenders into position, he uses his speed and agility to get to the basket. I expect Gooden to have another great season this year, and if not, you can say he isn't special.


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## Captain Obvious (Jun 15, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>spursindonesia</b>!
> 
> Nene is more versatile, so i like him more.:yes:


There's no way Nene is more versatile. Gooden played all of the frontcourt positions last year. While on Memphis he was a SF alongside Gasol and he hit 4 threes in one game, something I'm willing to bet Nene will never even come close to doing. On Orlando he went down low and had a bunch of double-doubles, including averaging a double-double in the playoffs against the #1 seed. 

Everybody says that Nene's offensive game will develop and he'll get better, but look at Gooden. He has the outside shot and the post moves already. He is already a beast on the boards. Notice everybody is saying Nene <b>could be</b> something, while Gooden already is. Both of them are young so Nene won't be the only one improving, especially when Gooden plays 35+ minutes a game this year. Both of them are amazingly quick for their size and they can both jump out of the gym, an advantage that most people have only been giving to Nene. Also, Gooden is taller than Nene so that helps.


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## RunTMC (May 11, 2003)

This really comes down to people debating who the most valuable(ie importance/dominance) player is and who the better(ie skilled) player is. Every point guard in the league is a better/more skilled player than Shaq. They just aren't as valuable/dominant. Nene down the road will be the more valuable player, in my opinion. Offensively skilled big men that are defensive presences are much harder to come by than multi-talented, undersized forwards that are defensive liabilities.


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## c_dog (Sep 15, 2002)

Okay, does anybody looks at stats anymore? Nene COULD BE, Nene this, Nene that. For those who are defending Nene, you better start backing up with reasons than "I think this.. I think that.. I believe this, etc." And stop speculating.

Drew had better stats, EVEN WHEN HE WAS IN THE WEST!!! So face it, Drew is better. If you want to talk potential, they both have plenty. If you say Nene has the potential to be a top PF, I can say that Drew also has the potential to be a top PF. Fact is, Drew out preformed Nene, simple as that. Look at the stats, and remember all of Drew's double double's, how he dominated Big Ben in the playoffs, how he helped T-Mac carry the magic, and the versatility he had when he was forced to play out of position in Memphis. Drew has proven himself to be a top rookie. Nene, on the other hand, is just "potential". Lol. Say whatever you want, man... he's still not better than Drew. The stats are way too different. Drew wins in both ppg, and rbg. Doesn't matter if it's 2 pts or 2rbs difference, BETTER IS BETTER!!! Remeber, it only takes 1 more pt to win the game, and 1 more rebound to clinch a win.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Budweiser_Boy</b>!
> 
> 
> With Memphis (WC) - 12.1 PPG, 5.8 RPG
> ...



Um, no. On Orlando he was given the opportunity to play PF and get more rebounds than he would on Memphis at SF. Also on Orlando, who else would get the rebounds, Andrew DeClerq? He was the only source of rebounding when he was in, whereas on Memphis he had to play with Gasol and Wright/Swift.


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## NugzFan (Jul 26, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>MagicStick</b>!
> 
> 
> There's no way Nene is more versatile.


sorry but he is.


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## NugzFan (Jul 26, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>c_dog</b>!
> Okay, does anybody looks at stats anymore? Nene COULD BE, Nene this, Nene that. For those who are defending Nene, you better start backing up with reasons than "I think this.. I think that.. I believe this, etc." And stop speculating.
> 
> Drew had better stats, EVEN WHEN HE WAS IN THE WEST!!! So face it, Drew is better.


:laugh: 

this comparison is still helarious. glad you guys are bringin the entertainment still.


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Enigma</b>!
> Here's the breakdown:
> <br><image src=http://www.nba.com/media/act_drew_gooden.jpg>
> Drew Gooden
> ...


That's so wrong.

Nene is 6'11 260lbs while Gooden is listed at *cough* 6'10 230lbs.

Gooden will never be as good defensively and not the rebounder that Nene is. He will also never be the athlete that Nene is.

I could care less about Gooden's perimeter game. I don't want my PF dribbling around the perimeter and jacking up shots like Gooden does anyway.


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## NugzFan (Jul 26, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Budweiser_Boy</b>!
> 
> 
> With Memphis (WC) - 12.1 PPG, 5.8 RPG
> ...


yup and he played with a better pg (does this matter? sure does) and tmac. oh and he speaks english (nene doesnt!)...oh and wait til nene brings his new J (still had close stats WITHOUT the O game...gooden already has it) and offensive moves. 

no contest. :yes:


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## rynobot (Oct 10, 2002)

I like Nene more than Gooden. Nene is a very good defender now, and has the potential to be a great one in a few years. Nene's offense is also coming around too. Gooden will be a solid player in the league, 18 and 9 is the what I see him averaging in the 2 more years. However, Nene is a guy who will end up averaging around 15, 12, and 3 blocks per game, and be one of the top defenders in the league.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> 
> 
> That's so wrong.
> ...


WHY IS EVERYONE SAYING NENE IS A BETTER REBOUNDER!?!?! LOOK AT THE ****IN NUMBERS PEOPLE!!!!!!!:sigh:


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## Captain Obvious (Jun 15, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>NugzFan</b>!
> 
> 
> sorry but he is.


Read the rest of my post. I actually made some valid points concerning this debate, something you seem incapable of doing. I present an argument, and you basically say "No, you're wrong I'm right" without backing it up. Yeah, that's the way to prove me wrong


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## Captain Obvious (Jun 15, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> 
> 
> That's so wrong.
> ...


Those numbers are right. Nene is 6'9 1/4", check the numbers from the pre-draft camp. Gooden is 6'10" or 6'11".

Oh and Nene's a better rebounder? Let's see, Gooden played small forward half of the year and played less minutes while Nene always played inside and played more minutes than Gooden. But who averaged more rebounds? Gooden. Who stepped up in the playoffs and averaged nearly 13 boards a game against the best rebounder in the league? Yeah that's right, Gooden.

Also, Gooden's perimeter game is important. Garnett could just stay inside and shoot fallaway jumpers all night, but one of the things that sets him apart from many power forwards is his perimeter game.


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## rynobot (Oct 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe45555</b>!
> 
> 
> WHY IS EVERYONE SAYING NENE IS A BETTER REBOUNDER!?!?! LOOK AT THE ****IN NUMBERS PEOPLE!!!!!!!:sigh:


a .4 differnece in rebounds in game is damn near negligible. Plus, Gooden had many more oppurtintes for rebounds because his team played at fast pace, where as the Nuggets were like mollasses on offenese. Nene is a better reboudner than Gooden!`


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>MagicStick</b>!
> 
> 
> Those numbers are right. Nene is 6'9 1/4", check the numbers from the pre-draft camp. Gooden is 6'10" or 6'11".
> ...


This is SOOO funny.

Gooden is definately not 6'11 and in predraft camp he measured in at 6'8 compared to Nene's 6'9 1/4.

Gooden is smaller than Amare Stoudemire standing next to each other and Amare is 6'10.

And what Tim Duncan sets him apart from Garnett is the ability to use dominant post moves that Garnett doesn't posess.

Stepping up in the playoffs? LOL , you embarassed yourselves against Detroit.
Oh and Ben Wallace averaged 18 rpg compared to Gooden's stepped up 13...


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> 
> 
> That's so wrong.
> ...


Gooden probably never will be the defender Nene is, but Nene will never be as good offensively as Gooden will be. And why is Nene a better athlete? He is stronger, yes, but other than that Gooden is just as good an athlete, and from what I have seen a better leaper.


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## lakerking8 (Jul 5, 2003)

A lot of these posts are completely biased and illogical, so why dont you all stop insulting each other and try to prove your point with good reasoning. Thank you.


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

Gooden isn't a better athlete.

Nene is quicker, stronger, faster and a better leaper.

Drew Gooden was measured in exactly at 6'8 3/4 inches in predraft camp.

So Nene is taller and Nene has a 7'4 1/2 wingspan compared to Gooden's 7' 1/2.

Nene also finished like 2nd in their overall athleticism tests.


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## pizzoni (Mar 27, 2003)

*Nene is a better athlete*



> And why is Nene a better athlete? He is stronger, yes, but other than that Gooden is just as good an athlete, and from what I have seen a better leaper.


Altough I can look biased, cuz I´m brazilian. Nene was the second best athlete at the pre-draft measures. (If i not mistake the best was JR Bremer.)

I sure Nene is a better athlete than Gooden and Amare and Boozer and a lot of others good young fowards altough that doesn´t make him a better players.


Pizzoni


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## Captain Obvious (Jun 15, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> 
> 
> This is SOOO funny.
> ...


T-Mac is 6'9" and Gooden is definitely taller than him. And who brought up Duncan? I never said anything about Duncan. It's ridiculous that you totally are disregarding Gooden's perimeter game, which is excellent for a power forward, compared to Nene's nonexistent perimeter game. That is a huge advantage for Gooden. And Gooden did step up in the playoffs, he didn't embarrass himself. What Ben Wallace averaged in the series is once again not relevant to the argument. Of course Wallace got more boards, I already said he was the best rebounder in the league. So since Ben Wallace got more rebounds Gooden's 13 a game don't count for anything?


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

No because you said he put up 13 boards AGAINST Wallace.

So how did he allow him to rebound so much more than his average?
That's the reason his 13 don't mean anything.

TMac is no way 6'9. Maybe 6'8 and that is what he is listed at.

You don't want your PF to hang around on the perimeter. The only PFs that do that are those that don't have dominant moves in the post.

Reece Gaines is 7'8 he is taller than Earl Boykins.


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

Everybody pay attention...

Nugz Fan has given you Magic fans the privelege of allowing him to crap down your throat in message board speak for this entire thread! 

Maybe you guys should be a bit more appreciative?


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> No because you said he put up 13 boards AGAINST Wallace.
> 
> So how did he allow him to rebound so much more than his average?
> ...


Tmac is 6'9". Watch him next season, he is as tall as many of the PFs in the league. And Gooden is a hair taller than Tmac.

Either way, I agree that Nene is stronger than Gooden, but I do not agree that Nene is a better athlete. And both guys use those things as their strengths ... Nene uses more power and muscle around the basket and Gooden uses for finesse and speed. No way Nene is faster or quicker than Gooden. Gooden is one of the quickest leapers in the NBA, which is one of the reasons he is a good rebounder. Nene is a good rebounder because of his huge hands and gigantic wingspan.

It is ridiculous for anyone to speculate who is going to be better at this point, because anything said for certain will probably be wrong. Both have their respective strengths and both fill different needs.


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## Captain Obvious (Jun 15, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> No because you said he put up 13 boards AGAINST Wallace.
> 
> So how did he allow him to rebound so much more than his average?
> ...


I put AGAINST Wallace because that's who Gooden was going against. He and the Magic allowed Wallace to get a ton of boards just like every other team in the league. 

T-Mac is 6'9", he's said so himself on television. He's long as hell, and guys like him, Gartnett, and others are actually taller than what they're listed at.

The part of your quote about the PF perimeter game is ludicrous. All of the great PF's have developed perimeter games in addition to their post moves: Duncan, Garnett, Webber, Nowitzki, R. Wallace, etc. Gooden does have some nice post moves like the fadeaway, hook shot, etc. Nene doesn't have many offensive moves at all, he mainly scores in the fast break and off of rebounds. You can assume Nene will develop an offensive game when the fact is Gooden has such a head start Nene will most likely never catch up.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>blabla97</b>!
> Everybody pay attention...
> 
> Nugz Fan has given you Magic fans the privelege of allowing him to crap down your throat in message board speak for this entire thread!
> ...


I honestly have no idea what the hell this meant or what I am supposed to be appreciative of, but generally you should avoid addressing an entire fan base as one.


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## Captain Obvious (Jun 15, 2003)

Let me just reiterate what Dee Bo said. As far as lateral quickness and spin moves, jumping, etc. Gooden is one of the quickest power forwards I have ever seen. I've watched a ton of basketball and he may just be the quickest PF of them all. Nene is quick, especially for his weight, but Gooden is quicker.


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## pizzoni (Mar 27, 2003)

*Nene is stronger and faster*



> Let me just reiterate what Dee Bo said. As far as lateral quickness and spin moves, jumping, etc. Gooden is one of the quickest power forwards I have ever seen. I've watched a ton of basketball and he may just be the quickest PF of them all. Nene is quick, especially for his weight, but Gooden is quicker.





> Either way, I agree that Nene is stronger than Gooden, but I do not agree that Nene is a better athlete. And both guys use those things as their strengths


Nene is faster then Gooden in full court run, Lateral speed and quickness because of his speed that Nene got a lot of steals.

Nene is really raw altough he improve a lot in NBA, but he play based in his physical attribute.

Nene is problably the more athletic guy in NBA above 6´10...

Question: Why Gooden wasn´t faster than Nene in the pre-draft measures???



Pizzoni


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## NugzFan (Jul 26, 2002)

the main thing is despite playing out east for half the year and despite playing with tmac and better pgs and despite knowing english and playing college ball for years, gooden barely had better stats. nene has unreal potential and will pass him very fastly with lightly quick speedness. 

not even a comparison. this thread is for humor only. bring on nene vs amare so we can talk real ball. gooden can go find a fizer/swift/googs/baker thread or something.


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## NugzFan (Jul 26, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>MagicStick</b>!
> 
> 
> Those numbers are right. Nene is 6'9 1/4", check the numbers from the pre-draft camp. Gooden is 6'10" or 6'11".
> ...


who cares about height. nene dominates gooden. 

plus howard took all of nenes rebounds and nene often was running up the court to get the fast break going.


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## NugzFan (Jul 26, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe45555</b>!
> Drew Gooden 6'8''?!?!! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
> 
> Wait til Gooden gets a whole season at PF on the Magic, and when he actually plays 35+ mpg, and when he's healthy, jut wait....


i love the just wait game! or jut wait...both are great 
(and that rhymes)

nene wins that everytime!!!

(whoa...that rhymes too! double rhyme time!)


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## NugzFan (Jul 26, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Dee Bo</b>!
> 
> 
> Gooden probably never will be the defender Nene is


probably?! replace "probably" with "sucks and".


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## NugzFan (Jul 26, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>blabla97</b>!
> Everybody pay attention...
> 
> Nugz Fan has given you Magic fans the privelege of allowing him to crap down your throat in message board speak for this entire thread!
> ...


whoa...its like a crossover thread.

kinda like freddy vs jason.

which one are you?

i forgot about our other thread. i gotta go back and find it and continue the non stop helarity that will most likely ensue. 

i stuff that ensues.


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## CMC (Aug 14, 2003)

Gooden is quicker at getting off his shot around the basket, but Nene is better at backing his man down, making traditional post moves, and finishing after the contract. 

Rebounding and ballhandling are in Gooden's favor, but Nene is the better man to man defender, weakside shotblocker, and passer.

Basically Nene is taller, longer, stronger, and a much better PF prospect than Gooden is. Gooden will always be the better natural scorer, but Nene is what? 19 years old? In two years their games won't compare besides the scoring IMO.


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## NugzFan (Jul 26, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>MagicStick</b>!
> You can assume Nene will develop an offensive game when the fact is Gooden has such a head start Nene will most likely never catch up.


head start? hes like 3 inches in front. if nene just leans forward (or gets a nose job) he takes the lead. 

oops...he just did! 

goodens offensive 'game' is just that...offensive. nothing to be impressed by. barely averaged more ppg with his game compared to nenes non existant (as of now) game. and when nene gets his game, itll be a blowout (moreso).


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## NugzFan (Jul 26, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>MagicStick</b>!
> Let me just reiterate what Dee Bo said. As far as lateral quickness and spin moves, jumping, etc. Gooden is one of the quickest power forwards I have ever seen.


you need to watch more nba games.

starting now.



















(im serious...NOW...why are you still sitting there...go find some old nba tapes. go ahead! get up you lazy mo fo. comeon!! GO!)


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## NugzFan (Jul 26, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rynobot</b>!
> 
> 
> a .4 differnece in rebounds in game is damn near negligible. Plus, Gooden had many more oppurtintes for rebounds because his team played at fast pace, where as the Nuggets were like mollasses on offenese. Nene is a better reboudner than Gooden!`


:yes:


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Dee Bo</b>!
> 
> 
> I honestly have no idea what the hell this meant or what I am supposed to be appreciative of, but generally you should avoid addressing an entire fan base as one.


sarcasm, my friend...sarcasm...


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## NugzFan (Jul 26, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> Gooden isn't a better athlete.
> 
> Nene is quicker, stronger, faster and a better leaper.
> ...


:yes: 

you are very smart and brilliantly smart.


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>NugzFan</b>!
> i stuff that ensues.


Yes you do, Nugz Fan...yes you do.


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## NugzFan (Jul 26, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>blabla97</b>!
> 
> 
> sarcasm, my friend...sarcasm...


:wlift:


----------



## NugzFan (Jul 26, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>blabla97</b>!
> 
> 
> Yes you do, Nugz Fan...yes you do.


yeah totally.

AND i like stuff that ensues too. 

how odd.


----------



## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>lakerking8</b>!
> A lot of these posts are completely biased and illogical, so why dont you all stop insulting each other and try to prove your point with good reasoning. Thank you.


Wise Words of the day:
Arguing online by insulting one another(Cough cough Nugz Fan) is like running in the Special Olympics. Even if you win, you're still retarded.:yes:


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## NugzFan (Jul 26, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe45555</b>!
> 
> 
> Wise Words of the day:
> Arguing online by insulting one another(Cough cough Nugz Fan) is like running in the Special Olympics. Even if you win, you're still retarded.:yes:


hmm..cough cough i didnt insult anyone. and you just did. cough cough hypocrite. 

try again. you lose. :yes:


----------



## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally Posted by * NugzFan *
> (im serious...NOW...why are you still sitting there...go find some old nba tapes. go ahead! get up you lazy mo fo. comeon!! GO!)


Lazy mo. fo., not an insult eh?:laugh: 

You continue to show your maturity and intelligence by the second.


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## NugzFan (Jul 26, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe45555</b>!
> 
> 
> Lazy mo. fo., not an insult eh?:laugh:
> ...


no, its not. read the post in context. 

my intelligence is far beyond yours so you should leave that out of it. :yes: 

please quit crying, whining and complaining. thanks.


----------



## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>NugzFan</b>!
> 
> 
> no, its not. read the post in context.
> ...


somebody is about to get banned...


----------



## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>NugzFan</b>!
> 
> 
> no, its not. read the post in context.
> ...


Once again, such great justification of your intelligence! Any way you look at what you said, its an insult!!!:yes: :sigh:


----------



## NugzFan (Jul 26, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>blabla97</b>!
> 
> 
> somebody is about to get banned...


dont ban the guy...i didnt care that he called me names. but i dont like it when i get accused of doing stuff i didnt do. thats all. 

thanks.


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## NugzFan (Jul 26, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe45555</b>!
> 
> 
> Once again, such great justification of your intelligence! Any way you look at what you said, its an insult!!!:yes: :sigh:


hmmm...no. any way you look at it, its not an insult.

if you cannot comprehend this, your mastery of the english language is not very high. 

please go re-read the post within context and the tone that was being used. it is called sarcasm. do you think i was actually referring to him as a lazy m***** f*****?

no, i was not. sigh - you ruined the joke.


----------



## CMC (Aug 14, 2003)

[email protected] two undergrads using introductory debate rhetoric and trying to come off smart.

Comedy to the fullest.


----------



## NugzFan (Jul 26, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>CMC</b>!
> [email protected] two undergrads using introductory debate rhetoric and trying to come off smart.
> 
> Comedy to the fullest.


:yes: 

good times.

back to the topic at hand:
nene rules.

gooden does not rule.


----------



## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>CMC</b>!
> [email protected] two undergrads using introductory debate rhetoric and trying to come off smart.
> 
> Comedy to the fullest.


[email protected] this chump who thinks I'm trying to sound intelligent. Pointing out the idiocy of another poster=me trying to sound smart? Go figure.


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## jokeaward (May 22, 2003)

Can nugzfan be the Ruben Patterson? Defensive, arrogant, despicable (less than RP, but not very likable), and just around.


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## NugzFan (Jul 26, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe45555</b>!
> 
> 
> [email protected] this chump who thinks I'm trying to sound intelligent.


:laugh: 

dude that was classic!


----------



## NugzFan (Jul 26, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>jokeaward</b>!
> Can nugzfan be the Ruben Patterson? Defensive, arrogant, despicable (less than RP, but not very likable), and just around.


is ruben patterson awesome, totally cool and really really really really really really good looking?

if so, then yes. 

but i didnt touch no kids.


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## "Matt!" (Jul 24, 2002)

Oh my god, just shut up, both of you.

Personally, I think Nene is better, I like the energy he plays with, and though his game is far less polished than Gooden's right now, I think his cieling is far higher.


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## RoddneyThaRippa (Jun 28, 2003)

Ok, kids. Let's look at this objectively. 

I'm gonna OBJECTIVELY look at Nene and Gooden based on stats, type of play, potential, athleticism/physicality, and intangibles. 

*Stats...* 

_Nene:_ 

*MPG:* 28.2
*PPG:* 10.5
*RPG:* 6.1
*APG:* 1.9
*SPG:* 1.59
*BPG:* .81
*FG%:* 52%
*FT%:* 58%

_Gooden:_ 

*MPG:* 26.8
*PPG:* 12.5
*RPG:* 6.5
*APG:* 1.2
*SPG:* .76
*BPG:* .5
*FG%:* 46%
*FT%:* 71%

Edge on Offensive Stats: Gooden

He doesn't get it by much, but he shoots better from the line and scores more than Nene, who does have the edge in FG% and assists, though. 

Edge on Defensive Stats: Nene

He's got this by a good amount. Gooden has Nene in boards (by about half a board a game) but Nene has gooden in everything else. 

Comments: 

Gooden's edge in scoring can be attributed somewhat to a better offensive system in Orlando and more overall experience (came out as a junior in college vs. Nene who was just 19). Nene's defensive edge can be somewhat attributed to the fact that foreign ball is different. There is more of an emphasis on defense. Also, the Nuggets stressed defense more than Orlando. 

Edge on Stats, overall: Tie

This seems like a wash.


----------



## RoddneyThaRippa (Jun 28, 2003)

*Style of Play:* 

Offensively...

_Gooden:_ 

Gooden is pretty diverse on the offensive end. He can play both inside and out, although his strength lies in his outside game. He can hit the fifteen foot jumper but can also drive to the hoop. He's also decent inside and overall, pretty tenacious. He can make free throws too. 

_Nene:_ 

Nene's offensive game is pretty raw. He doesn't have a whole lot of moves around the basket and is completely ineffective outside of 10 feet. He is fairly aggressive though (although he could improve here i.e. more Amare-like). His points can be attributed to his combination of size, quickness, and coordination. Nene has also displayed a good sense of court vision. 

Edge: Gooden


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## RoddneyThaRippa (Jun 28, 2003)

Style of Play, Defense: 

Nene: 

Has a chance to be a very, very special defensive player. Has above average quickness, speed, and strength but also displays good defensive skills. Very good man to man and is learning weakside defense too. Definitely could improve in the rebounding department where he is underachieving. 

Gooden: 

Hasn't shown anything too special, but isn't that terrible either. Has above average quickness and leaping ability, though. He is a very good rebounder. Doesn't just rely on athleticism, gets into good position. 

Edge Defensively: Nene


Edge overall in style of play: Tie

One is better on offensive, one is better on defense but if you count the two equally, it's a tie.


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## RoddneyThaRippa (Jun 28, 2003)

Athleticism/Physicality

Nene: 
Very big, very strong, and very quick. Has above average leaping ability (althoug he's not an especially quick leaper) and very long arms. This combination kinda makes him a freak. He's also VERY fast end to end. 

Gooden: 
Wiry, but athletic. Very quick leaper and for his size, pretty strong. He's very quick and also rather explosive. Has pretty long arms too. 

Edge: Nene


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

Better name? Nene
Better looking? Nene

Gooden looks like one of the coneheads if you know that movie.

And Gooden seems to have a bad temper too.


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## CMC (Aug 14, 2003)

^ Agree with the whole breakdown.


----------



## RoddneyThaRippa (Jun 28, 2003)

Intangibles: 

Nene: 

Has a very strong desire to win and is a quick learner. Fierce competitor too. But he has not been playing basketball for very long (let alone at an NBA level) and has encountered a language barrier (although his english is improving). Also loves his teammates and is not selfish on the court. Nene is also on a rebuilding team that is just now starting to breakthrough. 

Gooden: 

Same desire to win, intelligence, and competitiveness as Nene. Also comes off arrogant at times, but is very confident. Can hog the ball sometimes. Gets to play with the likes of Tracy McGrady and more established players/system. 

Edge: Drew, slightly

Nene has more to overcome more than Gooden but Drew will have to learn to get along better with his teammates. Drew gets the advantage because of his team situation, which is a lot more stable than Nene.


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

Could you please break down why Bruno Sundov is or is not better than Daligbor Bagaric?

And you forgot the standard phrase for something that can't be measured but is used to make someone look better that you can't say anything other good stuff about.

"makes his teammates better"


----------



## SlavkoVranes (Jul 22, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>NugzFan</b>!
> 
> 
> hmmm...no. any way you look at it, its not an insult.
> ...



Why would you insult someone's mastery of english then forget to capitalize your own sentences, omit your apostrophe's and then use the antithesis of "mastery of english" by resulting to swearing?

You Americans are hilarious! There is an old japanese proverb that says _If you wish to learn the highest truths, begin with the alphabet_ I think this applies to your post no? 

Also, I will rock the combined worlds of both Nene and Drew next year.


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## RoddneyThaRippa (Jun 28, 2003)

Potential: 

Nene: 

It's not often you see a 6'10, 260 lb. player that is quicker and faster than some small forwards in the league. Has amazing defensive skills already. And at 19, the sky is the limit. Despite his limited experience, raw game, language barrier, and team situation Nene still put up very respectable numbers. From what he's shown, you have to think he'll be a top 10, if not top 5 power forward and possibly a perrennial all-star in the league if he continues at this pace. 

Gooden: 

Surprised some people last year with his contribution. His offensive game is a lot more polished than players of his same age/experience. brings an unusually developed perimeter game for a power forward and plays tenaciously. Also, stepped his game up in the playoffs. Very respectable for a rookie. Gooden will have a great, overall offensive production but probably doesn't have the all-around game to be an elite power forward in the league. Will definitely make some all-star rosters. 

Edge: Nene


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

If you could improve your FT% to over 20%, maybe...


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## RoddneyThaRippa (Jun 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> Better name? Nene
> Better looking? Nene
> 
> ...


I don't know if you're just trying to be a jackass or what, but that's fine. Again, you scour these boards campaigning for Amare and Phoenix and nothing else (I'm starting to wonder if you actually are Amare StoudEmire). Be a jackass, I really don't care.


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## RoddneyThaRippa (Jun 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> If you could improve your FT% to over 20%, maybe...


Your boy, Amare, shoots worse from the line than Nene. Get a life.


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

Actually I was referring to SlavkoVranes.

So much for you...


----------



## SlavkoVranes (Jul 22, 2003)

Anyone would shoot that low if they took as few shots as I did. Is that how you measure players, through their free throw percentage? If so I would say your comments are as credible as a goat farmer commenting on thermodynamics.


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## RoddneyThaRippa (Jun 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> Actually I was referring to SlavkoVranes.
> 
> So much for you...


What about your first two posts?


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## The MAgiC (Aug 3, 2003)

I'm really starting to think we should consider an age limit on this board. Maybe 13 and up? Nugz will have to go play on ESPN with the other people of his intelligence level, but I think it's good for the overall board.

btw, whatever resemblance of an arguement you had sank a long time ago. Gooden has already won this comparison for now.


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## RoddneyThaRippa (Jun 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>The MAgiC</b>!
> btw, whatever resemblance of an arguement you had sank a long time ago. Gooden has already won this comparison for now.


Uh, in your mind. I haven't seen real convincing arguments either way.


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## The MAgiC (Aug 3, 2003)

Since when were stats not a convincing arguement? I've seen a LOT of other winning arguement for Gooden in this thread besides stats too. So if you don't see the convincing arguement, you should keep looking. Don't drag this on any longer.


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>RoddneyThaRippa</b>!
> Surprised some people last year with his contribution.


Who did he surprise? He was the 4th pick in the draft, remember? I think he did exactly what people thought he would do...


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## RoddneyThaRippa (Jun 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>The MAgiC</b>!
> Since when were stats not a convincing arguement? I've seen a LOT of other winning arguement for Gooden in this thread besides stats too. So if you don't see the convincing arguement, you should keep looking. Don't drag this on any longer.


You're just being a homer. Gooden scored two more points and rebounded .4 more balls than Nene last year. How the **** is that more convincing? Nene had more assists, a better shooting percentage, more steals, and more blocks than Gooden. How the **** is that convincing? Two points and half a rebound? Get real.


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## The MAgiC (Aug 3, 2003)

It's easy to call someone a homer isn't it? That's what people do when they know they're wrong. Get real.


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## RoddneyThaRippa (Jun 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>The MAgiC</b>!
> It's easy to call someone a homer isn't it? That's what people do when they know they're wrong. Get real.


Respond to this...

Gooden averaged two more points and one half a rebound more than Nene last season. You said the stats were a convincing argument. How is two points and half a rebound more a convincing argument.


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## "Matt!" (Jul 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>RoddneyThaRippa</b>!
> 
> 
> Respond to this...
> ...


Not only that, Nene is two years younger, isn't he?

Nene has such an incredible cieling, he's strong as an ox, a quick leaper, and plays at 100 mph all the time, with no real slowdowns! He jumps 2 or 3 times on the offensive boards! Imagine if he was getting coached for his offense?


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## The MAgiC (Aug 3, 2003)

It's better. That's how. He averaged almost 13 rebounds in the playoffs. How do you know he can't blow up like that during the regular season? He could also easily average around 18 points. Nene doesn't have the offensive game and won't get it anytime soon. I also doubt he'll ever be the better rebounder. And contrary to the opinions of some people in this thread, Gooden is the faster and more athletic one. I'm not going to guess who will be better a few years down the road, but Gooden has shown more than Nene and is therefore better NOW.


----------



## RoddneyThaRippa (Jun 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Matt85163</b>!
> 
> 
> Not only that, Nene is two years younger, isn't he?
> ...


Exactly. If Gooden fans really want to, they can say Gooden was better than Nene last season. But from here on out, it's all Nene. And I'm not saying that cause I'm a Nuggets fan. They'll learn this year.


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## The MAgiC (Aug 3, 2003)

We'll learn this year? Gooden will make the gap bigger between the two this year. So don't give me that Nene from here on out crap. He's got a lot more developing to do.


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## RoddneyThaRippa (Jun 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>The MAgiC</b>!
> It's better. That's how. He averaged almost 13 rebounds in the *playoffs* . *How do you know he can't blow up like that during the regular season?* *He could* also easily average around 18 points. Nene doesn't have the offensive game and won't get it anytime soon. I also doubt he'll ever be the better rebounder. I'm not going to guess who will be better a few years down the road, but Gooden has shown more than Nene and is therefore better NOW.


Dude, what the hell? Was Nene in the playoffs? No, so how can you use that in your argument? Everything you're saying is based on unfair comparisions (Gooden being in the playoffs) and projections (saying he COULD average 18 points). I do think Gooden has a better offensive game, but he only averaged TWO MORE POINTS THAN NENE. Again, respond to this and this alone: 

Gooden averaged only two more points and half a rebound more than Nene last year. Nene averaged better in FG%, assists, blocks, and steals. Based on THESE REGULAR SEASON STATS, how can you say Gooden is better?


----------



## RoddneyThaRippa (Jun 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>The MAgiC</b>!
> We'll learn this year? Gooden will make the gap bigger between the two this year. So don't give me that Nene from here on out crap. He's got a lot more developing to do.


If Nene has a lot more developing to do (which he does) and he only averaged two points and half a rebound less than Gooden, where exactly does that put Gooden's development and game (especially considering he's a far more experienced player than Nene)?


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## The MAgiC (Aug 3, 2003)

Do you know why Gooden was in the playoffs? BECAUSE HE GOT HIS TEAM THERE. Did Nene? I hear crickets....


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## The MAgiC (Aug 3, 2003)

More experience? I'm not sure if you knew this, BUT THEY'RE BOTH ROOKIES. College ball doesn't matter. Gooden has a lot of developing too, but he's shown he can be A LOT better next year and Nene hasn't shown he'll do any better than improve SLIGHTLY the next few years.


----------



## RoddneyThaRippa (Jun 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>The MAgiC</b>!
> Do you know why Gooden was in the playoffs? BECAUSE HE GOT HIS TEAM THERE. Did Nene? I hear crickets....


Hold up. GOODEN got his team to the playoffs? That's the quote of the year, my man. Quote of the year. The Magic have Tracy McGrady. Tmac. The Man. And you're saying Gooden got the team there? Unbelievable. Besides, there was no way in hell Nene could've gotten the Nuggets there. 

Orlando Magic Starting Lineup:

Darrell Armstrong
TMac
Mike Miller/Giricek
Garrity
Kemp/Declerq/Burke

Denver Nuggets Starting Lineup:

Junior Harrington
Vincent Yarborough/Rodney White
Posey/Harvey/Bowen
Juwan Howard
Nene

Um, do these two even compare? No.


----------



## The MAgiC (Aug 3, 2003)

You don't get it. Being a Magic fan, I'm well aware of who is on my team. But the Magic were below .500 when Gooden came to the team. Mmm... gee, wonder what changed that? They had T-Mac the entire year, so it couldn't be him.... gee... I wonder.


----------



## RoddneyThaRippa (Jun 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>The MAgiC</b>!
> More experience? I'm not sure if you knew this, BUT THEY'RE BOTH ROOKIES. College ball doesn't matter. Gooden has a lot of developing too, but he's shown he can be A LOT better next year and Nene hasn't shown he'll do any better than improve SLIGHTLY the next few years.


College ball doesn't matter? What!? Nene played against subpar competition in the Brazil leagues (how many Brazillian players are in the NBA and what was the score of the recent Brazil/NBA match). Gooden played in the highest level possible before the NBA. Nene is also two years younger than Gooden. Don't act like experience didn't count. And how exactly has Nene shown he can only improve slightly? I'm trying to see your point man, but you're way off base.


----------



## RoddneyThaRippa (Jun 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>The MAgiC</b>!
> You don't get it. Being a Magic fan, I'm well aware of who is on my team (telling by that lineup you obviously aren't...). But the Magic were below .500 when Gooden came to the team. Mmm... gee, wonder what changed that? They had T-Mac the entire year, so it couldn't be him.... gee... I wonder.


Uh, who'd I miss in the lineup? I didn't put Gooden in there cause I was showing you what other players he had with him. Gooden DID NOT get you into the playoffs. Besides, Nene didn't even have a chance to get his team to the playoffs, so your point is absolutely irrelevant. Again, you keep avoiding my point. You're the one who said that, based solely on the stats, Gooden is convincing better than Nene. Again, I ask you (and please respond on this, and this only): 

How does averaging two more points, half a rebound, and trailing in every other statistical category (except free throw percentage) make Gooden better than Nene? Two points....half a rebound...


----------



## The MAgiC (Aug 3, 2003)

You don't see my point because I'm trying to prove your point wrong. You said it was all Nene from here on out. If Gooden is older, more experienced according to you, and has actually physically shown he can improve more quickly than Nene, how is it "All Nene from here on out"? Exactly.

My point on that last post wasn't neccesarily the next several years, more like next year. Gooden's stats will seperate more from Nene's next year and maybe continue to a few years after that. Will he stay the better player? That's debatable.


----------



## RoddneyThaRippa (Jun 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>The MAgiC</b>!
> You don't see my point because I'm trying to prove your point wrong. You said it was all Nene from here on out. If Gooden is older, more experienced according to you, and has actually physically shown he can improve more quickly than Nene, how is it "All Nene from here on out"? Exactly.
> 
> My point on that last thread wasn't really the next several years, it was next year. Gooden's stats will seperate more from Nene next year and maybe continue to a few years after that. Will he stay the better player? That's debatable.


How has Gooden proven he can improve more quickly than Nene? Anyway, respond to what I've asked you to respond to for about five posts.


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## The MAgiC (Aug 3, 2003)

His stats rose in the playoffs. We have no reason to believe he can't get those kind of stats on a regular basis. Nene isn't ready to even get near those kind of stats, especially on offense. 

As for being better this year. His stats were better... I don't care by how much. They were better. He's more athletic, the better rebounder, actually has an offensive game outside of the usual relying on size which is what Nene does, and helped turn his team around.


----------



## RoddneyThaRippa (Jun 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>The MAgiC</b>!
> His stats rose in the playoffs. We have no reason to believe he can't get those kind of stats on a regular basis. Nene isn't ready to even get near those kind of stats, especially on offense.
> 
> As for being better this year. His stats were better... I don't care by how much. They were better. He's more athletic, the better rebounder, actually has an offensive game outside of the usual relying on size which is what Nene does, and helped turn his team around.


Two points, half a rebound, lost in every other statistical category...

I'm done with this argument. I'm not trying to hate on you but you obviously do not know what you're talking about. You've said: 

1. Gooden took the Magic to the playoffs

2. Gooden is better based on his playoff statistics, even though Nene didnt' even get to the playoffs. 

3. Gooden is better based on the fact that he scored two more points grabbed one-half more boards (even though he lost in every other category). 

This is just getting insane. Have fun living in your fantasy world and have fun watching Nene blow by Gooden next year and every subsequent one. Peace.


----------



## The MAgiC (Aug 3, 2003)

Oh yeah, like that didn't sound biased.  Nene isn't blowing by anything. Points and boards are the only stats that matter to me for big men. Do I care who had the better FG%? Should I when we all know Nene can't really play offense? NO!

And it's a fact that the Magic were below .500 before Gooden came along. You want to argue with a fact? Go right ahead. You DEFINITELY can't win that arguement. Gooden got himself to the playoffs and stepped his game up. Nene spent the summer wondering if he'd ever even get the chance to do that.


----------



## NugzFan (Jul 26, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>The MAgiC</b>!
> More experience? I'm not sure if you knew this, BUT THEY'RE BOTH ROOKIES. College ball doesn't matter.


of course it doesnt :laugh:



> Gooden has a lot of developing too, but he's shown he can be A LOT better next year and Nene hasn't shown he'll do any better than improve SLIGHTLY the next few years.


riiiiiiiiight.  

man you are really bad at this. i mean REALLY bad.


----------



## NugzFan (Jul 26, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>SlavkoVranes</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> Why would you insult someone's mastery of english then forget to capitalize your own sentences, omit your apostrophe's and then use the antithesis of "mastery of english" by resulting to swearing?


because i dont give a crap about grammar and stuff like that. 

go learn some netiquette. 

oops! didnt capitalize again!


----------



## NugzFan (Jul 26, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Matt85163</b>!
> Oh my god, just shut up, both of you.


----------



## NugzFan (Jul 26, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> Better name? Nene
> Better looking? Nene
> 
> ...


:laugh: 

awesome post!


----------



## NugzFan (Jul 26, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>The MAgiC</b>!
> I'm really starting to think we should consider an age limit on this board. Maybe 13 and up? Nugz will have to go play on ESPN with the other people of his intelligence level, but I think it's good for the overall board.
> 
> btw, whatever resemblance of an arguement you had sank a long time ago. Gooden has already won this comparison for now.


in your mind maybe. 

in real life its all nene. im still waiting for the real comparison - nene vs amare. gooden can hang with his boyz (mo taylor, vin baker, othello harrington, etc)

just beacuse you dont agree with me, doesnt mean anything. i know im right. 

and an age limit would be excellent - this thread is as much you as it is me (at least i bring the fun/humor...you just dang annoyin!)


----------



## NugzFan (Jul 26, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>The MAgiC</b>!
> It's easy to call someone a homer isn't it? That's what people do when they know they're wrong. Get real.


PUH-lease dont bring the homer issue into this. you really dont want that. :laugh:


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## Natty Dreadlockz (Jul 21, 2003)

Gooden is the better player... He has a better offensive arsenal at this point in his career... He plays tough D also... Without the silly fouls that Nene be pickin up... This should be a good debate for years as they both develop... Peace


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## NugzFan (Jul 26, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>The MAgiC</b>!
> We'll learn this year? Gooden will make the gap bigger between the two this year. So don't give me that Nene from here on out crap. He's got a lot more developing to do.


:laugh: 

man you just dont know what you are talking about. you are married to marge. this is insane.


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## NugzFan (Jul 26, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>RoddneyThaRippa</b>!
> 
> 
> Hold up. GOODEN got his team to the playoffs? That's the quote of the year, my man. Quote of the year. The Magic have Tracy McGrady. Tmac. The Man. And you're saying Gooden got the team there? Unbelievable. Besides, there was no way in hell Nene could've gotten the Nuggets there.
> ...


dont forget...magic in east. nuggets in west. make me mad!! :upset:


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## NugzFan (Jul 26, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>The MAgiC</b>!
> Do you know why Gooden was in the playoffs? BECAUSE HE GOT HIS TEAM THERE. Did Nene? I hear crickets....


no you hear tmac leading his team to the playoffs. 

man you so silly!


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## NugzFan (Jul 26, 2002)

the magic: i think i got it. lemme know if this is right:

gooden is better now.

gooden, not tmac led his team to the playoffs which that alone is reason to put him above nene (ignoring all other factors)

gooden dominated the playoffs (ben wallace) and thats the real gooden...not the other 82 games

goodens college ball did not matter at all

gooden is better on both ends 

gooden will get better more quickly and at a mcuh faster pace than nene, who might never get better despite gooden already having an O game which BARELY beat out nenes nonexistant game

and anything that held nene back (teammates, conference, opposition, language, etc) really doesnt matter

am i close? am i officially a magic fan yet? :laugh:


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## The MAgiC (Aug 3, 2003)

[strike]No, you're officially a mentally handicaped spammer.[/strike] 


Please do not attack other posters.


rynobot


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## pizzoni (Mar 27, 2003)

*Good post*



> Gooden is the better player... He has a better offensive arsenal at this point in his career... He plays tough D also... Without the silly fouls that Nene be pickin up... This should be a good debate for years as they both develop... Peace



Some opinions:

1º Never attack or make an argument with other poster for more than 3 posts, It is really anoying for the other readers.

2º Gooden isn´t more athletic, but If someone thinks You, me or anyone wouldn´t change that.

3º I from Brazil and I truly believe that Nene will not be a great offensive player (like Dirk, Webber, Duncar) because he isn´t a shooter and never will be a excelent shooter but he has a chance of been a great post player at offensive end. (If he make more than 3 pt in a season I will be really surprise)

4º Nene is a natural defender, his court sense is far ahead of Gooden (you can see that in steal, assist and block), but he still imature because he is always trying the steal or block a shoot and keep get in sily fools.

5º I saw Nene playing for Brazil this summer, and he is playing better at offensive end (he even make some mid-range shoots), but he still getting tons of sily fools.

I think that this argumet it is like T-mac and Kobe, Duncan and Garnett because you will never win or loose because it is a personal opinion. Basketball preferences it isn´t science.

Pizzoni

Ps. But I really think that Nene is in the class of Amare and other, and Gooden is a spot behind.

Ps. Other thing, Nene can play center in NBA, can Gooden???


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Good post*



> Originally posted by <b>pizzoni</b>!
> Ps. Other thing, Nene can play center in NBA, can Gooden???


Gooden can play SF, can Nene? Thats not a good arguement.


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## rynobot (Oct 10, 2002)

*Re: Re: Good post*



> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe45555</b>!
> 
> 
> Gooden can play SF, can Nene? Thats not a good arguement.


Good centers are alot harder to find then a good small foward.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

Bottom Line: Gooden is the better player right now, the stats show that. Both have a lot of potential(I personally think Nene has more), but who knows if either of them will ever reach their potential?? Nobody knows that. We don't know who will be better in the end, I think it will be Nene, but we do not know, which is the point I am making. All of us are giving are opinions(except NugzFan, if he says Nene is better, its a fact ), and nobody's opinion is right or wrong because we cant tell the future. All I've been trying to say is that Gooden was better than Nene last year. This year, I think both will improve vastly and both will become excellent players in the end. WE DON'T KNOW WHO WILL BE BETTER! All I know is that Gooden averaged more points and rebounds than Nene. And while 2 points per game may not seem like a lot, it is when you consider that over an 82 game season, thats 164 more points, and that is definitely significant, and can determine the outcome of a few games over the course of a season. One more fact I'd like to throw out there, in the Voting for the NBA All-Rookie team, both Nene and Gooden made it, but Gooden received more points in the voting.


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## TMOD (Oct 12, 2002)

Drew Gooden:

In Detroit series:

40.0% FG
14.0 PPG
12.7 RPG
33.4 MPG

51 Games (29 Starts) in the West

44.3% FG
26.1 MPG
12.1 PPG
5.8 RPG
.43 BPG (.68 in East)

Orlando: #4 in the NBA in Possessions/Game

Gooden High Points: 26

Nene High Points: 24

Am I supposed to be impressed by the 44% FG in the West compared to Nene's 52%? Is the stellar 40% in the playoffs supposed to impress me? All he did in the playoffs against the Pistons was rebound more...he didn't even hold his score P/48 minutes rate with 14.0 PPG in 33.4 minutes. All in all...versus Detroit: everything except for rebounds was same or worse. His numbers in the West were _clearly_ no better than Nene's either. These Magic fans need to get real with garbage like, "Clearly betters, the stats show it,"..."Playoffs show how much better he is, could average 18 a game next season easy." Gooden, overall, scored 2 more points per game, on 1.5 more shots per game...not much of an advantage at all IMO, especially when he shoots that much higher a percentage from the line. 

Just my>>:twocents:


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>TMOD</b>!
> Drew Gooden:
> 
> In Detroit series:
> ...


Do you remember who the Magic were playing against? Yea, the best defensive team in the league(or at least the East) and Ben Wallace. Obviously his numbers against the rest of the league would be better, and you can't use Gooden's numbers against the West as a fair comparison becasue he was playing SF. First of all, he's playing SF so he won't get as many rebounds, and secondly, playing SF he was forced into playing the permeter, which is not his game, and it explains the low FG%.


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

His numbers against the Pistons aren''t good if he allows Wallace to grab 18 boards PER GAME.


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## TMOD (Oct 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe45555</b>!
> 
> 
> Do you remember who the Magic were playing against? Yea, the best defensive team in the league(or at least the East) and Ben Wallace. Obviously his numbers against the rest of the league would be better, and you can't use Gooden's numbers against the West as a fair comparison becasue he was playing SF. First of all, he's playing SF so he won't get as many rebounds, and secondly, playing SF he was forced into playing the permeter, which is not his game, and it explains the low FG%.


Hey, to me it looked like it was open season on unobjective statistics...

Do you remember that Nene started a ton of games at center, and that is in the _West_ on the _Nuggets_? Playing center isn't his game. I think this whole comparison will be a lot better when both play a full season at their real positions. :yes:


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## Natty Dreadlockz (Jul 21, 2003)

> 1º Never attack or make an argument with other poster for more than 3 posts, It is really anoying for the other readers.


What's annoyin is Nuggz fan's like yourself sippin this Nene kool aid... Get real... Your opinioin's very biased on evaluatin Nene's skills... Especially if you think he is even near Gooden's level right now... No... I'm not tellin you he might not be better than Gooden 7 years down the line(as ya'll like to say)... But the chances are very slim on head to head PF comparisons alone... Peace


> I think this whole comparison will be a lot better when both play a full season at their real positions.


Good point.


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## pizzoni (Mar 27, 2003)

*Gooden is better than Nene*



> What's annoyin is Nuggz fan's like yourself sippin this Nene kool aid... Get real... Your opinioin's very biased on evaluatin Nene's skills... Especially if you think he is even near Gooden's level right now... No... I'm not tellin you he might not be better than Gooden 7 years down the line(as ya'll like to say)... But the chances are very slim on head to head PF comparisons alone... Peace


Gooden is better than Nene!! Are you happy now?!? Or because I´m a Nugz fan I can post my opinion on Nuggets Players??

Another thing, I think that Swift is also better than Gooden...

Pizzoni


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## Natty Dreadlockz (Jul 21, 2003)

> Gooden is better than Nene!! Are you happy now?!? Or because I´m a Nugz fan I can post my opinion on Nuggets Players??


My bad dirty... I wasn't tryin to diss you or your team... I been goin around wit this Nene debate for a couple weeks... Check the Nuggs board... But... Your entitled to your opinion jus as everyone else is


> Another thing, I think that Swift is also better than Gooden...


Nah... I wouldn't go that far... He's got hella potential though... Now you'll laugh at this but Nene's rookie numbers were better than Swift's... Peace


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## RoddneyThaRippa (Jun 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>TMOD</b>!
> Drew Gooden:
> 
> In Detroit series:
> ...


Damn good points man, damn good points.


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## RoddneyThaRippa (Jun 28, 2003)

Well, I'm sick of arguing with biased fans (on both sides) so this is my final take, unless someone says something insane that I gotta respond to...

Offense: The fact that Nene had a non-existent offensive game, played in the West, played out of position, is twenty years old, hasn't been playing basketball that long, has to overcome a language barrier, and played on the Nuggets yet only averaged two points and half a rebound less than Gooden says a lot about his potential vs. Gooden's. Does Gooden have a more diverse offensive game? Sure. Will he be the better offensive player for two, maybe three years? Sure. But you're fooling yourself if you'd rather have Gooden at your power forward spot.

Defense: Nene is and always will be better. Case closed. 

Overall: It's not often a 6-10, 260 lb. player with exceptional athleticism, quickness, strength, and court sense comes along. And that's to say nothing about Nene's advanced defensive skills. As for Gooden, he has his own claim in his diverse game. But I GUARANTEE you that every damn GM in the league would pick Nene over Gooden. Nene will be a great player. Gooden will be very good.


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## pizzoni (Mar 27, 2003)

*It is Ok*



> My bad dirty... I wasn't tryin to diss you or your team... I been goin around wit this Nene debate for a couple weeks... Check the Nuggs board... But... Your entitled to your opinion jus as everyone else is


It is Ok, maybe I just misundetand your post, my english skills isn´t that great...

Pizzoni


> Nah... I wouldn't go that far... He's got hella potential though... Now you'll laugh at this but Nene's rookie numbers were better than Swift's... Peace


I know that It is funny how talent guys like Swift, Odom and others just waste they talent, If both of this guys played as hard as PJ Brown they would be easily max players but they just didn´t get it.

I think that Swift is a good player because when Lorenzo Wright was out for personal reasons he played a lot of great games (5 20-10 in the row), So, if I were a GM I would make a gamble on him.

Pizzoni

Ps. What do mean "dirty", in this sentence "My bad dirty??


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## Natty Dreadlockz (Jul 21, 2003)

> Ps. What do mean "dirty", in this sentence "My bad dirty??


Dirty= Homie... Cousin... Bro... or whatever else you can think of callin a friend... Peace



> Overall: It's not often a 6-10, 260 lb. player with exceptional athleticism, quickness, strength, and court sense comes along. And that's to say nothing about Nene's advanced defensive skills. As for Gooden, he has his own claim in his diverse game. But I GUARANTEE you that every damn GM in the league would pick Nene over Gooden. Nene will be a great player. Gooden will be very good.


Your prob right Rippa... A few years down the line Nene will be a beast barrin injuries... Why you think Gooden could only be a very good player though?... Peace


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## The MAgiC (Aug 3, 2003)

Gooden will ALWAYS be the better offensive player and probably the better rebounder. THAT case is closed....


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## RoddneyThaRippa (Jun 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Eagle</b>!
> Your prob right Rippa... A few years down the line Nene will be a beast barrin injuries... Why you think Gooden could only be a very good player though?... Peace


I think you can only be a very good player because he doesn't have great strength and his defense isn't that good. He doesn't do anything real great, but he'll be a very good scorer and good rebounder. He doesn't have the combination of power, size, and quickness Nene does.


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## The MAgiC (Aug 3, 2003)

Oh that made a lot of sense. Gooden is taller and quicker than Nene, but doesn't have the combination Nene has... alrighty then.


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## pizzoni (Mar 27, 2003)

*Gooden is taller than Nene*



> Oh that made a lot of sense. Gooden is taller and quicker than Nene, but doesn't have the combination Nene has... alrighty then.


You can make an argument that Gooden is quicker than Nene, altough I disagree but Are you saying that Gooden 6-10 (208cm) is taller than Nene 6-11(211cm)??? 

Maybe Gooden is also taller than Shaq and all other people in the world doesn´t know how to count.

207 209 210 211 208

It was really funny.

Questio: Gooden is heavier and stronger than Nene also, right?

Pizzoni


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## The MAgiC (Aug 3, 2003)

You should take a look at the comparison earlier in this thread. At the time that those stats were taken, Nene was obviously not 6'11". Could that have changed? Possibly, but for the sake of the arguement he's not 6'11" till those stats say he is.

And no, Nene is the stronger of the two. But does that make Gooden weak? No. So what's your point? Gooden has added some muscle over the summer though, and I'd be surprised if Nene hasn't done something, so we don't actually know how comparable they are at the moment in strength or size for that matter. Especially since in some cases people are still growing (height) even at their age. We can only go by their official stats. And they say Gooden is taller. 

On a side note, just because Nene is quick for his weight doesn't make him the quicker player.... Gooden is. He's also the better jumper. Anyone who has seen them both play a decent amount of times knows that's not even arguable.


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## pizzoni (Mar 27, 2003)

*Gooden is taller, says who??*



> We can only go by their official stats. And they say Gooden is taller.


In NBA.com

Nene 6-11 211cm 
Gooden 6-10 208cm

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/nene/index.html?nav=page
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/drew_gooden/index.html?nav=page

In ESPN

Nene 6-11
Gooden 6-10

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3605
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3602

What is the official site?

Who was the faster at the pre-draft camp?? I know that Nene was the better athlete, but who was the faster in the drills??

Pizzoni


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## TMOD (Oct 12, 2002)

Drew Gooden's Pre Draft Stats:
WEIGHT: 227 
HEIGHT: 6' 8.75
W/ SHOES: (6' 10)
WINGSPAN: 7' 1.5
STANDING REACH: 8' 10.5

Nene's Pre Draft Stats:
253
6' 9.25
(6' 10.25)
7' 4.5
9' 1.0


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## TMOD (Oct 12, 2002)

> On a side note, just because Nene is quick for his weight doesn't make him the quicker player.... Gooden is. He's also the better jumper. Anyone who has seen them both play a decent amount of times knows that's not even arguable.


 This is your opinion...and the opinion of a Magic fan, I might add. What is not opinion...the fact that Nene was #2 in the entire draft in the athletic testing, and Gooden was quite a ways down from him. All that you say is arguable, because you have no facts, and further, the facts point the other way. If I can find the numbers for the athletic testing, I can prove it beyond the overall ranking.


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## The MAgiC (Aug 3, 2003)

Ooooh, Nene scored higher on pre draft athletic testing! That makes him a much better athlete! (sarcasm anyone?)

He's the quickest, strongest, most awesomest player on the planet! Go Nene! You're the bomb cause some meaningless pre draft tests said you are! You stupid Magic fans are so biased, nothing you say is ever true even though everyone with 20/20 vision can tell Gooden is the faster player... you're still wrong! Just cause!!! - What that post just sounded like.  

And why are we arguing about height difference? It wouldn't matter who is right, it's a edited for masked cursing *inch* difference either way.


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## TMOD (Oct 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>The MAgiC</b>!
> Ooooh, Nene scored higher on pre draft athletic testing! That makes him a much better athlete! (sarcasm anyone?)
> 
> He's the quickest, strongest, most awesomest player on the planet! Go Nene! You're the bomb cause some meaningless pre draft tests said you are! You stupid Magic fans are so biased, nothing you say is ever true even though everyone with 20/20 vision can tell Gooden is the faster player... you're still wrong! Just cause!!! - What that post just sounded like.
> ...


I have no idea what that was, but it was a sad attempt at something...

Maybe you'll eventually post some sort of legit argument...keep trying, practice makes perfect.


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## rynobot (Oct 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>The MAgiC</b>!
> Ooooh, Nene scored higher on pre draft athletic testing! That makes him a much better athlete! (sarcasm anyone?)
> 
> He's the quickest, strongest, most awesomest player on the planet! Go Nene! You're the bomb cause some meaningless pre draft tests said you are! You stupid Magic fans are so biased, nothing you say is ever true even though everyone with 20/20 vision can tell Gooden is the faster player... you're still wrong! Just cause!!! - What that post just sounded like.
> ...



Ok, you were the one who first brought up athletism and height as ways to defend Gooden. Now that you were proven wrong, those factors no longer matter? If they don't matter why did you even bring them up? Let me guess, they do matter, but only if they prove that Gooden is better. The only facts that matter to you are the ones that favor Gooden.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

Bump


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## Pinball (Aug 3, 2002)

These kind of debates are always fun when nothing else is happening. I like to see posters going at in on 50 page threads. Pass the popcorn please.


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## grizzoistight (Jul 16, 2002)

In the long run its nene without a doubt..

Unless your a magic fan than drew gooden is the next tim duncan


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## reHEATed (Jun 29, 2003)

yea...Nene will probably be better, but Gooden will also be a very good player


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>grizzoistight</b>!
> In the long run its nene without a doubt..
> 
> Unless your a magic fan than drew gooden is the next tim duncan



I don't recall ever seeing a Magic fan say Gooden would be the next Tim Duncan.

I think it is pretty ridiculous to say either will be better "without a doubt" ... no one can make that call at this point.


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## Priest (Jun 24, 2003)

im tired of this potential mess....so im going wit the goods


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## "Matt!" (Jul 24, 2002)

Alright, then you take Mike Sweetney and Kirk Hinrich, I'll take LeBron James and Darko Milicic.

Deal?


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## Priest (Jun 24, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Matt85163</b>!
> Alright, then you take Mike Sweetney and Kirk Hinrich, I'll take LeBron James and Darko Milicic.
> 
> Deal?


what????????? that doesnt make any sense...even now LJ and darko will contribute faster than those two....Im talkng about potential arguments like Kevin garnett vs. lamar odom..people say potentially odom could be better cause the positions he can play but i'm lke I'll believe it when i see it or the next foreign phenom that people say will be the best "He is a 7 foot shooting guard with half court range, super d and can play every position!" if thats the case just give him the rings and trophies...cause next thing u kno they turn out to be another slow footed shooter or an athletic but fundamentally challenged freak


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## bballlife (Oct 5, 2003)

Nene is better right now and will be much better in the future.

Nene has huge hands, a giant wingspan, can dunk/finish with both hands, and has a body perfect body for the NBA. He also has great footwork due to his background in soccer.

Gooden is tenacious and high engergy, He can be a good hustle/role player and a good rebounder.

Other than that, he does not have the skill/smarts/body to develop into anything special.


Nene wins this one EASY.


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## The MAgiC (Aug 3, 2003)

That was laughable. Nobody wins anything easily. Gooden has everything to develop into something special. If you don't see it, stay out of the conversation until you actually watch a game or 2. I've found the second coming of Grizzo. Or maybe it's just a second screenname...


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## bballlife (Oct 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>The MAgiC</b>!
> That was laughable. Nobody wins anything easily. Gooden has everything to develop into something special. If you don't see it, stay out of the conversation until you actually watch a game or 2. I've found the second coming of Grizzo. Or maybe it's just a second screenname...



Only thing laughable is you pretending to know what you're talking about about.

Watch a game or 2?? I watched Gooden for 3 years at Kansas, I have seen him play quite a bit. 

Gooden will not develop into something special, Nene will.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>bballlife</b>!
> Nene is better right now and will be much better in the future.
> 
> Nene has huge hands, a giant wingspan, can dunk/finish with both hands, and has a body perfect body for the NBA. He also has great footwork due to his background in soccer.
> ...


You have no basis at all for saying something like that, especially saying Nene wins "EASY" .. that is ridiculous. How does Gooden not have the skill Nene has? Or the smarts? And who are you to judge Gooden's smarts? 

Nene has a better body for the style he plays, while Gooden has the better body for the style he plays. Nene is power, Gooden is speed.

I can't believe people think they can make absolute judgements like you think you just did. Incredible.


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## bballlife (Oct 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Dee Bo</b>!
> 
> 
> You have no basis at all for saying something like that, especially saying Nene wins "EASY" .. that is ridiculous. How does Gooden not have the skill Nene has? Or the smarts? And who are you to judge Gooden's smarts?
> ...



I will explain to you why I can see this and you can not. Its very simple, I have a better understanding of the game than you. 

I will bet you any amount of money that in 10 years, if you were to ask who has had the better career, Nene would be the landslide pick. Barring a huge injury or something like that Nene will be the better player.

Im sorry you dont have the understanding/knowledge of the game that I do, and I don't want to waste any more time explaining it to you since its obvious you don't get it.


Whos going to have a better career? Gasol or Diop?
Gasol will.

Theres another absolute judgement. Im on fire.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>bballlife</b>!
> 
> I will explain to you why I can see this and you can not. Its very simple, I have a better understanding of the game than you.
> 
> Im sorry you dont have the understanding/knowledge of the game that I do, and I don't want to waste any more time explaining it to you since its obvious you don't get it.


Excellent observation and explanation. Wow, really blew me away. I am convinced now. I am sorry for ever questioning your uber knowledege.

Everyone should bow down to you.

Gimme a break.


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## Potatoe (Jun 17, 2002)

I saw Drew play a lot last year and I think he is a pretty solid bet to be a top notch starter for the Magic.

He is a very good rebounder and he has a nice versatile offensive game.

I don't see him as an All Star but I would bet money that he is going to be a fantastic player that Magic fans will be very happy with.

Nene could go either way. Sure he probably has a higher ceiling, but that is only because Drew is further along in his own development so we know what he is likely capable of.

Sure Nene could be better than Drew but so what, he could also never even be as good.....

The one thing that I will say is very appealing about Nene is the fact that he is already big enough to play the 5, and in the center deprived NBA I think a 14 and 8 center is actually more valuable than a 17 and 9 power forward.

I would take Nene on my team but primarily because players as big and strong as him are becoming a very scarce resource.


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## NugzFan (Jul 26, 2002)

tonight...nene wins the battle and the war.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>NugzFan</b>!
> tonight...nene wins the battle and the war.


Tonight yeah. Unfortunately, Juwan Howard has pushed Gooden to the SF for the second time in his career ... I think everyone can safely say now that Gooden stinks as a SF and is not comfortable at all playing there.

It is a mistake for Orlando to sacrifice Gooden's future at PF to accomodate Juwan Howard.


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## FanOfAll8472 (Jun 28, 2003)

Sorry but can't people (NugzFan?) post one post instead of 10 with three lines?  I know many forums where one would get a bane (not a ban, but a bane) for that.

Anyways I'll give you guys my opinion, unbiased, so if you don't like it that's too bad. I like both players a LOT and equally. I think Gooden and Nene are equal right now. Gooden is the better scorer, but Nene the better defender. Both, IMO, are equal rebounders. I'm not sure who has more potential, because that's kind of hard to measure, but if I had a gun to my head, I'd probably say Nene because he's younger and more raw than Gooden.

BTW, if you're going to compare the stats btwn Gooden and Nene from last year, you're better off taking Gooden's stats in Orlando, not Memphis. In Memphis he was forced to play the 3, which isn't his position...

Last thing...I thought it was interesting how in the recap of the DEN-ORL game, they noted McGrady as the "6-9 superstar could not make his last one..."
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=231114007
I think it's AP.


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## Derrex (Jul 21, 2002)

nene will amount to nothing more than a more athletic dale davis.
gooden will amount to nothing more than his counterpart on the magic juwan howard


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## NugzFan (Jul 26, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>FanOfAll8472</b>!
> Sorry but can't people (NugzFan?) post one post instead of 10 with three lines?  I know many forums where one would get a bane (not a ban, but a bane) for that.


nope sorry.


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## NugzFan (Jul 26, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Derrex</b>!
> nene will amount to nothing more than a more athletic dale davis.
> gooden will amount to nothing more than his counterpart on the magic juwan howard


:laugh:


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## NorthSideHatrik (Mar 11, 2003)

Gooden is better right now and also less of a risk. Like some one said, yes Nene has the higher ceilling as far as potential, but you also need to understand that he has a lower floor too. The odds of Nene fullfilling every bit of his potential is definately not a given. With Gooden however you know what your going to get. His Ceiling might not be as high, but his floor is much higher. With gooden there is no Crash factor. No Gooden is not going to set the world on fire, but he's going to be good for 16 and 10 for a long NBA Career.

Edit- by the way have you seen Gooden's pic on ESPN.com? You can tell he's been hitting the weights hard, his neck is much larger than last year. Thats a good sign, he's committed to getting better.


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## kcchiefs-fan (Oct 28, 2002)

Gooden's an extremely hardworker and is dedicated to making his game better. I've always been high on Nene, but at this point Gooden's easily the better player, and offensively he most likely stay the same the rest of their careers. The way I see it, Nene ends up being the better defensive player, fairly easily, and Gooden ends up the better offensive player, fairly easily. Rebounding is up in the air, but when Gooden puts his mind to it he's got fantastic instincts for coming up with the ball.

One thing though, Gooden still needs to mature. Right now he seems to concerned with filling up the stat sheet and not letting the game come to him. Part of this could be Doc's fault as well, by not including Gooden enough in the offense and getting it to him enough in the low post. But he's just a second year player, he'll mature as time goes on, I just hope the signing of Howard doesn't stunt his growth as a player.


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## NugzFan (Jul 26, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>kcchiefs-fan</b>!
> Gooden's an extremely hardworker and is dedicated to making his game better. I've always been high on Nene, but at this point Gooden's easily the better player, and offensively he most likely stay the same the rest of their careers.


that is just so very and totally not very true and accurate at all.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>kcchiefs-fan</b>!
> Gooden's an extremely hardworker and is dedicated to making his game better. I've always been high on Nene, but at this point Gooden's easily the better player, and offensively he most likely stay the same the rest of their careers.


I'd rather have the quiet tropical storm, Nene.

Gooden looked really good for Orlando last year, after the trade. But let's not forget he was disappointing prior to the deal, which is why West dealt him, and he's back to disappointing this year.

So, was the second half of last year a mirage? Maybe.

Nene has never been disappointing. He's been a very good defensive player with an improving offensive game. Gooden's "easily" better offensive game has translated into being only about 1 or 2 ppg better on considerably worse shooting.

Gooden *has* been rebounding better than Nene, since his trade to Orlando, so that brings them closer. Right now, they're not far apart, but Nene has better defense. So, I'd take him.


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## FanOfAll8472 (Jun 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Minstrel</b>!
> 
> 
> I'd rather have the quiet tropical storm, Nene.
> ...


Maybe my memory doesn't serve, but Gooden played well, until Hubie came to Memphis. Hubie screws over a lot of players with his funky substitution system and I don't think Gooden and Hubie ever got on the same page.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>FanOfAll8472</b>!
> 
> Maybe my memory doesn't serve, but Gooden played well, until Hubie came to Memphis. Hubie screws over a lot of players with his funky substitution system and I don't think Gooden and Hubie ever got on the same page.


Really? You could be correct, I didn't really watch Memphis carefully last year to know when various dynamics may have changed what things. But I thought the players took to Hubie and he improved the team a fair amount. At least, that was the buzz around him.

Also, I thought I read that West never much cared for Gooden, once Gooden began playing in the NBA.


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## The MAgiC (Aug 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>NugzFan</b>!
> 
> 
> that is just so very and totally not very true and accurate at all.


That is just so very and totally not very good English at all.  Message boards require knowing how to write out, or type in this case, a language correctly. :laugh:


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## NugzFan (Jul 26, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>The MAgiC</b>!
> 
> 
> That is just so very and totally not very good English at all.  Message boards require knowing how to write out, or type in this case, a language correctly. :laugh:


i am so very defintely not surprised that you did not in any way pick up on the sarcasm that i did use that time in the post that i posted. :laugh: 

106-101

1-9

:laugh: 

you lose. try again.


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## The MAgiC (Aug 3, 2003)

> i am so very defintely not surprised that you did not in any way pick up on the sarcasm that i did use that time in the post that i posted.



I lose? We were playing a game?  At this point I'm not sure if you know what sarcasm even _means_. Do the words punctuation and capitalization mean anything to you? I'm sorry. I forgot that large words confuse you. Nevermind. 

...defintely... :laugh:


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## walkon4 (Mar 28, 2003)

*well*

I think the fact that you guys spend that much time and posts(to get your number up) shows you guys dont really have anything better to do.

Instead of debating nene and gooden, it has become a rukah vs. Nugzfan debate.

Im going with Rukah


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## The MAgiC (Aug 3, 2003)

We wouldn't taunt Nugz if it wasn't so fun... and easy.:laugh:


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## NorthSideHatrik (Mar 11, 2003)

I want to make a couple more points,

First- Minstrel- When Drew was underachieving in memphis all of his minutes were at the 3. Gasol gets major PT at the 4, so drew was S-O-L. Drew himself has said he cannot play the 3 and that he is a true post player. Its not fair to judge gooden when he's forced to play on the perimeter.

2nd- yes i do think Howard will stunt Gooden's development, once again Drew is forced to get alot of minutes at the 3. So in Gooden's defense he is getting 14 and 7.5 while playing out of position.

3rd- How come everyone can use the Magics lack of true PG to defend T-Mac, but don't you think Gooden would be playing better with a decent point to feed him the ball?

Lastly- I have a feeling you'll see the Magic playing without a center once Giricek is healthy again. They will probably go double PF with a line-up of Lue, T-Mac, Giricek, Gooden, Howard. Double PF will only help the running game.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>NorthSideHatrik</b>!
> 
> 3rd- How come everyone can use the Magics lack of true PG to defend T-Mac, but don't you think Gooden would be playing better with a decent point to feed him the ball?


In the games I've seen of the Magic, McGrady has done a pretty good job of drawing doubles and feeding Howard and Gooden. They've just missed shots.

The Magic front line players are shooting something like 40% which would be poor for guards and is stunningly bad for big men.


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## Potatoe (Jun 17, 2002)

The problem with Drew in Memphis was that he simply wasn't willing to play a lesser role for the Grizzlies.

Hubie preaches defense and team first ball and Drew just wouldn't buy in.

He wanted to be the starting 4, and the focal point of the offense but that simply wasn't going to happen. He was asked to come off the bench and play some minutes at the 3 but he was just never happy in that role and wasn't willing to do what was asked of him.

Consequently he played very selfishly in the limited minutes he was give and thus was given less and less PT.

The Grizzlies really screwed up in that Draft, they would have been much better off picking Nene who could have played the 5 or Buttler who would have given them the 2/3 that they needed.


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## NugzFan (Jul 26, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>The MAgiC</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


you sure did. again. thanks.


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## NugzFan (Jul 26, 2002)

oh and there was one other thing i was going to say

what was it

lemme think

what was i going to say

hmmmm

something about the numbers 1 and 9. 

19 something? 1.9? 1/9? man i cant remember!

1 and 9? 1 and 9? what do these numbers mean?! 

anyone know? i totally forgot. :laugh:


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## NugzFan (Jul 26, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>The MAgiC</b>!
> We wouldn't taunt Nugz if it wasn't so fun... and easy.:laugh:


im glad you enjoy it. as do i. it helps that you lack nba knowledge and set yourself up so easily over and over. i mean, comeon kid. try harder. 

please. :yes:


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

:laugh:


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## NorthSideHatrik (Mar 11, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Potatoe</b>!
> The problem with Drew in Memphis was that he simply wasn't willing to play a lesser role for the Grizzlies.
> 
> Hubie preaches defense and team first ball and Drew just wouldn't buy in.
> ...


The fact of the matter is that Gooden is a post player and is not fit to play on the wing. The Grizzles failed in that draft not because Gooden didn't pan out, they failed because the 4 was there deepest position and yet they still drafted a 4.


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## NugzFan (Jul 26, 2002)

dear The MAgiC,

one and ten

sincerely,
the orlando magic


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## ill subliminal (Apr 3, 2003)

i go to ku.

NENE. Anyone saying gooden, especially with how he's started the season is ridiculous.


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## The MAgiC (Aug 3, 2003)

Nugz,

*edited: No personal attacks* you'll realize that while my team is losing so far this year, sucking is a yearly thing for Denver. And it always will be.

Sincerely, the harsh truth.


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## chapi (Apr 4, 2003)

how come that many of you say gooden is better coz he has perimeter skills. but when he plays ****ty you say it's not his fault coz he's put to play on the parimeter??


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## Slasher (Jul 11, 2003)

I like Nene's potential better.


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## NugzFan (Jul 26, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>The MAgiC</b>!
> Nugz,
> 
> *edited: No personal attacks* you'll realize that while my team is losing so far this year, sucking is a yearly thing for Denver. And it always will be.
> ...



:laugh: 

stop stealing my jokes. and quit living in the past.



anyways, i got another for you:

knock knock,

_whos there?_

one and thirteen

_one and thirteen who?_

orlando magic.

:laugh:


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## Lurch (Nov 3, 2003)

Any chance the Nuggets would be intrested in trading Nene for Gooden? Please!! 

Gooden is so selfish everytime he touches the ball he shoots it. Goodens defense is horrible he gets lit up so bad on defense every night.


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## The MAgiC (Aug 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>NugzFan</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hmm... maybe that was amusing when you said it to your preschool classmates, but to anyone that doesn't eat glue, it's just plain lame. Quit now while you're behind.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

Okay, stop with the back and forth of insulting each other and the teams you follow.

Posts that continue to disrupt from discussing Nene and Gooden will be deleted, henceforth.

You can continue your war, if you wish, in PMs.


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## NugzFan (Jul 26, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>The MAgiC</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm... maybe that was amusing when you said it to your preschool classmates, but to anyone that doesn't eat glue, it's just plain lame. Quit now while you're behind.



goodens team is 1 and 13, the worst team in the nba. my, that is a poor record. nenes team is 7 and 6 in the western conferece. a better record that goodens IMO. :yes:


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## Nevus (Jun 3, 2003)

> goodens team is 1 and 13, the worst team in the nba. my, that is a poor record. nenes team is 7 and 6 in the western conferece. a better record that goodens IMO.


This is the same argument you use to prove that Carmelo Anthony is better than LeBron. Personally I don't think you can compare two players very effectively by their team records. Despite what it sometimes looks like, individuals don't win games and individuals don't lose games. 

There have always been very good players on some of the worst teams, and mediocre players on the best teams.

For example, Flip Murray's team has a vastly better record than Tracy McGrady's, but it's a bit soon to say that Flip Murray is better than Tracy McGrady.


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## rebelsun (Nov 25, 2003)

In my opinion - 

They are both very athletic big men, but if I had to choose, it would be Maybyner simply because he's bigger (app. 6'10 235 vs. 6'11 255) and Nene could defend the 4 and 5 positions much more effectively. I think it comes down to versatility and potential. It's been established that Gooden does not and should not be on the perimeter, so he is a post player. So you are comparing post players, and I believe Nene is the more versatile and promising post player.

*Plus he happens to share my exact same birthdate (9/13/82)!


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## NugzFan (Jul 26, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Nevus</b>!
> 
> 
> This is the same argument you use to prove that Carmelo Anthony is better than LeBron. Personally I don't think you can compare two players very effectively by their team records. Despite what it sometimes looks like, individuals don't win games and individuals don't lose games.
> ...


no, i have never said melo is better than bron nor have i ever said melo is better than bron because of team records.

stop putting words in my mouth.

go find this made up quote you are talking about.

and im also not comparing nene and gooden. i am just talking about them because the mod person said i had to.

stop making up stuff.

thanks.


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## RoddneyThaRippa (Jun 28, 2003)

Well, before the season began, the answer to this question was overwhelmingly Nene. As the season has progressed, the answer is still Nene but to a lesser extent. I don't know if Nene has added too much muscle to his frame or what but he completely lacks explosiveness and touch - two things Gooden does possess. Who is the better defender? Nene, by far. But until Nene starts finishing around the basket and refining (more like establishing) his offensive game, Gooden is light years ahead of Nene on the scoring end of the court. Nene has to be one of the quickest 260 lb. players ever to step foot on an NBA court. That said, he lacks the explosiveness Jermaine O'Neal said he possessed at a 230-240 lb. playing weight (at the World Championships). Nene is naturally strong so I don't see the need for him to bulk up to 260, like he has. But Nene undoubtedly has more potential than Gooden. The only question is if that potential will be fulfilled.


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## AL9045 (Nov 27, 2003)

Nene for right now. Gooden getting benched doesn't really help his case and Nene being injured doesn't help his either. But Gooden has been shooting bricks and his rebounding has dropped in the last few games, along with those minutes.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

So far this season...








Drew Gooden-12.8 ppg, 7.8 rpg, 1.1 bpg, 1.1 spg, 31.7 mpg








Nene-11.2 ppg, 7.1 rpg, .5 bpg, 1.2 spg, 31.5 mpg 


Getting virtually the same playing time, Drew Gooden is outpreforming Nene, although both have been slight disappointments in their progression this year.


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## rynobot (Oct 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rukahS capuT</b>!
> So far this season...
> 
> 
> ...


you are so wrong. You did not mention that Nene shots 53% from the field and Gooden only shots 43% from the field.


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## kcchiefs-fan (Oct 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rukahS capuT</b>!
> So far this season...
> 
> 
> ...


Gooden had a very productive month of December, perhaps he's finally learning his role. I still check the box score and see him putting out 2 rebound performances and bad shooting nights, but at least it looks as if he may be improving.


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## guilherme.rcf (Mar 4, 2003)

Nene is putting similar numbers this season, but now he is playing among much better players, so you can say that he has improved.


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## Kunlun (Jun 22, 2003)

Nene has some pretty bad rebounding nights too.


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## The MAgiC (Aug 3, 2003)

People are still talking about this? :uhoh:


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## Aurelino (Jul 25, 2003)

I'd take Nene.


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

i dont give a damn what team

I'm taking Nene

runtofreeformeth


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## bballlife (Oct 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>JNice</b>!
> 
> 
> You have no basis at all for saying something like that, especially saying Nene wins "EASY" .. that is ridiculous. How does Gooden not have the skill Nene has? Or the smarts? And who are you to judge Gooden's smarts?
> ...



Whats up now? Nuggets wouldnt trade Nene for Kmart, Gooden is on his 3rd team already. He was just traded for Tony Battie and 2 2nd rounders. OUCH.

Boy I must be psychic.

You're done.


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## Drewbs (Feb 16, 2004)

But the Magic needed to get rid of Drew Gooden to develop Dwight Howard.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>bballlife</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


:laugh: 

Nene is so good that the Nuggets are signing an All-Star PF to send Nene to the bench.


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## NugzFan (Jul 26, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> 
> 
> :laugh:
> ...


:no: 

kmart -> pf

nene -> center


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>NugzFan</b>!
> 
> 
> :no:
> ...


Marcus Camby? If they were smart they would send Nene to the bench behind Martin and Camby, easily to the two best players of the 3 at this point.


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## Yyzlin (Feb 2, 2003)

Actually I've heard that the Nuggets plan to play Martin at SF, and move Anthony to SG. Anyways, it's true though. Hilario is MUCH better than Gooden. It's really not even close.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Yyzlin</b>!
> Actually I've heard that the Nuggets plan to play Martin at SF, and move Anthony to SG. Anyways, it's true though. Hilario is MUCH better than Gooden. It's really not even close.


Wow, K-Mart at SF and Melo at SG 

Good luck with that...


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## Yyzlin (Feb 2, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> 
> 
> Wow, K-Mart at SF and Melo at SG
> ...


Agreed. It's an idiotic move, and they really just wasted their money on Martin. Hilario is already almost as good as him, and will most likely surpass him in one or two years.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Yyzlin</b>!
> 
> Agreed. It's an idiotic move, and they really just wasted their money on Martin. Hilario is already almost as good as him, and will most likely surpass him in one or two years.


Stupid? I was thinking more along the lines of moronic, retarded, brainless, senseless or boneheaded.


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## SilentOneX (Feb 9, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> 
> 
> Stupid? I was thinking more along the lines of moronic, retarded, brainless, senseless or boneheaded.


I don't think Voshon would appreciate it. Maybe I am just wrong, who knows?


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## Yyzlin (Feb 2, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> Stupid? I was thinking more along the lines of moronic, retarded, brainless, senseless or boneheaded.


You forgot just plain $%$#% dumb....


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> 
> Stupid? I was thinking more along the lines of moronic, retarded, brainless, senseless or boneheaded.


You forgot "brainless."

No wait...you got that one. Carry on.


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## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

i like nene and all, but when people start saying he's almost as good as kmart, you know he's overrated. kenyon is better in literally every facet of the game.


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## Yyzlin (Feb 2, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>spriggan9</b>!
> i like nene and all, but when people start saying he's almost as good as kmart, you know he's overrated. kenyon is better in literally every facet of the game.


Well, it's true. Other than rebounding, Hilario is fairly equal in all other aspects of the game with Martin. On top of that, he's almost five years his junior.


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## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Yyzlin</b>!
> 
> Well, it's true. Other than rebounding, Hilario is fairly equal in all other aspects of the game with Martin. On top of that, he's almost five years his junior.


i wouldn't say that. kmart isn't what you would call an extremely polished offensive player, but he's very solid and superior to nene in that area. martin is also the better man-to-man and team defender and probably a better passer, athough he and nene will never be mistaken for kevin garnett in that area.

the only things nene really has on kenyon martin is upside and age. beyond that, they're really not that close.... yet. could nene eventually be a better player? certainly. but as of right now, i think kmart is a good deal better.

nene's been improving a lot though, and *could* close the gap even more this upcoming season, provided he starts. however, i'm basing everything off of previous seasons, and nene hasn't given me any reason to put him in a class with kenyon martin.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>spriggan9</b>!
> nene's been improving a lot though, and *could* close the gap even more this upcoming season, provided he starts. however, i'm basing everything off of previous seasons, and nene hasn't given me any reason to put him in a class with kenyon martin.


Did Nene really improve that much last season? He was probably one of the more disappointing sophomores in the league(right up there with Gooden). I didn't see the improvement I expected from him last season.

Look at the stats:

02-03: 10.5 ppg, 6.1 rpg, 1.9 apg, 1.6 spg, 0.8 bpg, 2.3 TO/g, 51.9% FG, 28.2 mpg
03-04: 11.8 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 2.2 apg, 1.5 spg, 0.5 bpg, 2.4 TO/g, 53.0% FG, 32.5 mpg


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## Yyzlin (Feb 2, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>spriggan9</b>!
> i wouldn't say that. kmart isn't what you would call an extremely polished offensive player, but he's very solid and superior to nene in that area.


If you consider Martin's attempts at working his horrible post game and hucking random shots as having a superior offense than Hilario, then, yes, I suppose you are right.


> martin is also the better man-to-man and team defender and probably a better passer, athough he and nene will never be mistaken for kevin garnett in that area.


I really wouldn't say Martin is the better defender than Hilario. Martin might get more attention for his exciting blocks, but Hilario is one of the premier low post defenders in the league. Neither are great passers, so you're right, the point is fairly negligible.


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## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> 
> 
> Did Nene really improve that much last season? He was probably one of the more disappointing sophomores in the league(right up there with Gooden). I didn't see the improvement I expected from him last season.
> ...


i didn't really look at his stats, but you're right. it doesn't seem like he improved much, stat-wise. however, watching him play, you could tell he was a lot more comfortable (both offensively and defensively) on the court last season than he was in his rookie year. i would've predicted this season as nene's "breakout" year, so to speak, but kmart's addition will probably negate that.


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## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Yyzlin</b>!
> 
> If you consider Martin's attempts at working his horrible post game and hucking random shots as having a superior offense than Hilario, then, yes, I suppose you are right.


i wouldn't call martin's post game "horrible". while not polished in any sense of the word, it's serviceable. he's developed a fairly decent hookshot, actually.

either way, nene isn't exactly an offensive juggernaut. i guess it depends whether you want 17 ppg on 49% shooting or 11 ppg on 53% shooting.



> I really wouldn't say Martin is the better defender than Hilario. Martin might get more attention for his exciting blocks, but Hilario is one of the premier low post defenders in the league. Neither are great passers, so you're right, the point is fairly negligible.


martin is one of the premier low post defenders in the league *and* a very good help-side shotblocker. both are fairly equal in terms of guarding other forwards, but kmart's superior team defense puts him over the edge in my opinion.


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## Yyzlin (Feb 2, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>spriggan9</b>!
> i wouldn't call martin's post game "horrible". while not polished in any sense of the word, it's serviceable. he's developed a fairly decent hookshot, actually.
> 
> either way, nene isn't exactly an offensive juggernaut. i guess it depends whether you want 17 ppg on 49% shooting or 11 ppg on 53% shooting.


It's serviceable, exactly. It's nothing special, and you do see him force many shots. His main asset is getting points off offensive rebounds, transition situations, and off Kidd feeds. Granted, Hilario isn't spectacular himself as he gets many of his points in the same fashion that Martin does, but he is much more efficient as well as not having the benefit of Jason Kidd on his team. 



> martin is one of the premier low post defenders in the league *and* a very good help-side shotblocker. both are fairly equal in terms of guarding other forwards, but kmart's superior team defense puts him over the edge in my opinion.


I would rank Hilario as a better man to man defender, while Martin is the better help defender, so as an overall defender, I don't really believe either seperate themselves from each other.


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## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Yyzlin</b>!
> 
> It's serviceable, exactly. It's nothing special, and you do see him force many shots. His main asset is getting points off offensive rebounds, transition situations, and off Kidd feeds. Granted, Hilario isn't spectacular himself as he gets many of his points in the same fashion that Martin does, but he is much more efficient as well as not having the benefit of Jason Kidd on his team.
> 
> ...


well, what we're arguing is pretty much subjective. i do agree with you that it was a dumb move to get kenyon martin when you already have nene, though. that doesn't make much sense to me.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>spriggan9</b>!
> 
> 
> i didn't really look at his stats, but you're right. it doesn't seem like he improved much, stat-wise. however, watching him play, you could tell he was a lot more comfortable (both offensively and defensively) on the court last season than he was in his rookie year. i would've predicted this season as nene's "breakout" year, so to speak, but kmart's addition will probably negate that.


Honestly, I didn't see Nene play very much at all last season, only 5 or 6 times, so I'm basing my opinion on his improvement/lack thereof on stats, and the very little I did see from him.


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## NugzFan (Jul 26, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> 
> 
> Marcus Camby? If they were smart they would send Nene to the bench behind Martin and Camby, easily to the two best players of the 3 at this point.


word is nene starts, camby still get his time and might play most of the 4th. who starts doesnt matter - all it means is you get your name annoucned during the starting lineups. camby doesnt care about that.


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## NugzFan (Jul 26, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Minstrel</b>!
> 
> 
> You forgot "brainless."
> ...


you guys finished discussing things that arent true? :laugh: 

next topic: what should the lakers rename their team after moving to montana?


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## guilherme.rcf (Mar 4, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> 
> 
> Did Nene really improve that much last season? He was probably one of the more disappointing sophomores in the league(right up there with Gooden). I didn't see the improvement I expected from him last season.
> ...


That isnt a smart quote. Since nene played among much better players last season. With more players scoring and grabbing rebouds. He got similar numbers in a better team. That is an improvement.


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## Sánchez AF (Aug 10, 2003)

I take Drew


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## SheedSoNasty (Dec 31, 2002)

Nené


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