# The team is in shambles



## StephenJackson (Oct 28, 2004)

And something needs to be done. I'm not the type to hit the panic button this early in the season, but it has become very evident to me that we will not win a championship with the team we have right now. Our chemistry is way off balance, and we lack hustle. Something needs to be done. I'm sick of excuses, because there are none. On paper we should win every game. But we lack heart. I hear Gordon is on the market, and we are interested. I say go for it. If not him, then we need to make a move for somebody else. I hope Bird sees eye to eye with me.


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## rock747 (Aug 3, 2004)

There's no doubt there is lack of effort. It's dissapointing too. The Seattle game would of put us second in the Central and put us on top of Clevland. As of now we are keeping our record right around 4 games above .500. Which is bad because we have tough games ahead Dallas, Washington, Memphis.


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## PacersguyUSA (Sep 1, 2002)

I'm pretty dissapointed. There's no way I thought we'd lost this many games. It seems like most teams can score at will against us.


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## MillerTime (Jul 6, 2003)

Agreed. I don't wanna be like "i told you so" but i saw some problems early on, and people said no way, this team is too good. It was the first week i pointed out we stuggle in last minutes. Our hustle was questioned too. 

But said it's early and who cares, now we're going down the season more and more and more problems are starting to show up and the problems we saw early on and not getting fixed.

I think you're right StephenJackson, i think something needs to be done. Personally, the more i think, the more i think Jackson is the problem.


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## StephenJackson (Oct 28, 2004)

MillerTime said:


> I think you're right StephenJackson, i think something needs to be done. Personally, the more i think, the more i think Jackson is the problem.



Which is funny, because that means I'M the problem.


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## MillerTime (Jul 6, 2003)

lol

yo say if stephen jackson gets traded, are you going to get a new user name or keep SJ?


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## StephenJackson (Oct 28, 2004)

MillerTime said:


> lol
> 
> yo say if stephen jackson gets traded, are you going to get a new user name or keep SJ?



Welcome to the dilemma that is my life here haha.


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## MillerTime (Jul 6, 2003)

StephenJackson said:


> Welcome to the dilemma that is my life here haha.


hahaha yeah man i was thinking all of last season if i should change my name or not. But decided to stay with millertime for life cuz i love the dude.


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## Auggie (Mar 7, 2004)

agreed, stephen jackson must go.(not the fan fans post at these boards though!)


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## jdohman (Nov 20, 2005)

no need to panic guys.. If you think about it.. once we get into the playoffs with our 8th seed because we let every team below 400 beat us. We prolly wont lose a game.. Because we will only be playing team with talent. :angel:


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## PaCeRhOLiC (May 22, 2005)

jdohman said:


> no need to panic guys.. If you think about it.. once we get into the playoffs with our 8th seed because we let every team below 400 beat us. We prolly wont lose a game.. Because we will only be playing team with talent. :angel:




LOL....


I also agree that something has got to be done ASAP....

This team has got alot of problems right now, a change is needed and very much welcomed....

just DON'T get rid of my man Ron Ron....




*Go PaCeRs!!!!!!!!*


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## Grangerx33 (Mar 9, 2004)

I agree, they are playing without heart, it is very hard to watch a game without getting mad. They are the best team in the NBA its time they played like it, BUT keep in mind, they have not had their starting lineup yet this season, while they are still playing without heart they don't have their best team out there, in fact, alot of the games we have been without 2 starters, I think it has gotten their moral down, when they get their players back I think/hope they play like the team they are.


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## Gonzo (Oct 14, 2004)

big pacer 20 said:


> I agree, they are playing without heart, it is very hard to watch a game without getting mad. They are the best team in the NBA its time they played like it, BUT keep in mind, they have not had their starting lineup yet this season, while they are still playing without heart they don't have their best team out there, in fact, alot of the games we have been without 2 starters, I think it has gotten their moral down, when they get their players back I think/hope they play like the team they are.


I agree. When everyone gets healty, we'll start playing like we should be. The injuries aren't the only things that are holding us back, though, there's no hustle out there. Last night in the beginning of the game versus Seattle, we were missing many defensive rebounds; not just a few, it seemed like we were missing at least one each time we went down the floor. Jermaine wasn't boxing out at all. We're also playing without a leader. The Pacers need someone to lead, whether that be Jermaine, Ron, or Jackson (I can't see Tinsley, Foster, or Croshere doing it).


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

I remember saying in November last year that we shouldn't judge any player off of how they played that year, and that we should have the same team this year. Well, look what's happened. I really think we are missing Reggie now.


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## MillerTime (Jul 6, 2003)

Reggie was the heart and soul of the Pacers, he led by example. However, i don't think we'd miss that because i figured O'Neal was a guy with high passion to win, and Artest plays with tons of heart and etc.

However, the #1 finger pointer to a team that doesn't play with heart or passion is the head coach, in every sport, if a team "lays down and dies" the guy who always get blamed is the coach. 

It's hard to believe one of his teams would be heartless, but i think they need a team meeting or something to get the ball rolling because it's obvious not everyone is on the same page.


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

MillerTime said:


> Reggie was the heart and soul of the Pacers, he led by example. However, i don't think we'd miss that because i figured O'Neal was a guy with high passion to win, and Artest plays with tons of heart and etc.


Reggie provided the leadership which neither Artest nor O'Neal do.



> However, the #1 finger pointer to a team that doesn't play with heart or passion is the head coach, in every sport, if a team "lays down and dies" the guy who always get blamed is the coach.


Agreed. Carlisle needs to take some screaming lessons and take things extremely. If O'Neal isn't playing hard, bench him for the rest of the game. Go with a lineup of Saras/Gill/Granger/Croshere/Pollard if they're the ones giving effort, and let them teach the starters a lesson. What he did with Tinsley two years ago worked wonders.


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## StephenJackson (Oct 28, 2004)

MillerTime said:


> However, the #1 finger pointer to a team that doesn't play with heart or passion is the head coach, in every sport, if a team "lays down and dies" the guy who always get blamed is the coach.



This team needs a Phil Jacksonesque coach.


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## absolutebest (Jun 10, 2002)

"The Sonics are a very good offensive team, basically what it came to, they were just very prepared, and I thought we didn't put in a good effort," said Jasikevicius...

I am getting real sick of hearing this. There is no excuse for this. I'm really at a loss for words at this point. I really didn't expect us to lose our 6th game until 20-25 games into the season. We can kiss 60 wins goodbye, which is weird, because talent-wise this team blows away the team that we had two years ago.


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## Grangerx33 (Mar 9, 2004)

Larry Legend said:


> I agree. When everyone gets healty, we'll start playing like we should be. The injuries aren't the only things that are holding us back, though, there's no hustle out there. Last night in the beginning of the game versus Seattle, we were missing many defensive rebounds; not just a few, it seemed like we were missing at least one each time we went down the floor. Jermaine wasn't boxing out at all. We're also playing without a leader. The Pacers need someone to lead, whether that be Jermaine, Ron, or Jackson (I can't see Tinsley, Foster, or Croshere doing it).


Jackson could never be a leader for the Pacers, I think it comes down to Artest or Tinsley. Reggie even said Tinsley is the true leader of the Pacers team, Artest just has that about him. O'Neal is trying all the book-ways to be a leader when he is not doing what really matters, he is critizing more than leading, hence the fight with Jackson, Tinsley, Artest, or maybe even Saras needs to step up if we want to win.


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## MillerTime (Jul 6, 2003)

big pacer 20 - Who was that person from espn that is in your quote?

I always look at your signature and wonder "wtf happened". Toughest...... deepest........ most motivated team??? Doesn't sound like the Indiana Pacers one bit.


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## PaCeRhOLiC (May 22, 2005)

MillerTime said:


> Toughest...... deepest........ most motivated team??? Doesn't sound like the Indiana Pacers one bit.



Unfortunatly at this time I have to agree with you doggy...



*Go PaCeRs!!!!!!!!*


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## jermaine7fan (Aug 19, 2005)

It is my belief that we are losing these games because we are still trying to find our identity with the current squad... be prepared guys... this may not be a quick fix. Many guys are going to have problems for a while because they are still adjusting... and so is our rotation. I believe we are going to be real tough... and consistantly so come playoff time. When we lose these games... I know every time that if we were going to be facing them again in our next game... there is no chance we would lose the second time. Our team lacks consistancy... but in a seven game series... I would not be worried about it. The point I am trying to make is... don't worry unless this stuff is still consistantly going on a little bit after the Allstar break... our team still needs time to gel. We will be ready come playoff time... even if there is no trade before then. 

Rebounding is really the only thing that I am totally mad about right now.


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## Gonzo (Oct 14, 2004)

big pacer 20 said:


> Jackson could never be a leader for the Pacers, I think it comes down to Artest or Tinsley. Reggie even said Tinsley is the true leader of the Pacers team, Artest just has that about him. O'Neal is trying all the book-ways to be a leader when he is not doing what really matters, he is critizing more than leading, hence the fight with Jackson, Tinsley, Artest, or maybe even Saras needs to step up if we want to win.


Tinsley leader? No. He pouts when he doesn't get his way, even when he gets taken out of games. He'll pull his shorts down, make a sad face, and sit on the bench and not even pay attention to what's going on in the game. 

Leaders make their teammates better, on and off the court. Tinsley may be able to make his teammates better on the court by giving them nice passes, but off the court I doubt he's helping out any of his players. Is he helping with Saras's defense? Is he helping Saras at all?

And Saras a leader? No way in hell. I can tell that nearly all of the guys don't like him. How can you be a leader if you don't earn the respect of your fellow players? Maybe Saras can be one in a couple of years, but not this year. We need a leader now, not one in the next 2-5 years.


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## PacersguyUSA (Sep 1, 2002)

absolutebest said:


> "The Sonics are a very good offensive team, basically what it came to, they were just very prepared, and I thought we didn't put in a good effort," said Jasikevicius...
> 
> I am getting real sick of hearing this. There is no excuse for this. I'm really at a loss for words at this point. I really didn't expect us to lose our 6th game until 20-25 games into the season. We can kiss 60 wins goodbye, which is weird, because talent-wise this team blows away the team that we had two years ago.


I'm sick of hearing it too, especially from Jasikeviscius. He thinks he some kind of God, when in reality it barely looks like he tries on defense a lot of times. There are times when he does look like he's giving effort, but the same goes for the rest of the team. I'd personally like to just hear him shut the **** up.


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## PacersguyUSA (Sep 1, 2002)

Larry Legend said:


> Tinsley leader? No. He pouts when he doesn't get his way, even when he gets taken out of games. He'll pull his shorts down, make a sad face, and sit on the bench and not even pay attention to what's going on in the game.



I've never seen that happen, the shorts thing and not paying attention. 



> Leaders make their teammates better, on and off the court. Tinsley may be able to make his teammates better on the court by giving them nice passes, but off the court I doubt he's helping out any of his players. Is he helping with Saras's defense? Is he helping Saras at all?


It is impossible to make Sara's defense better. He just doesn't have the athletic ability.



> And Saras a leader? No way in hell. I can tell that nearly all of the guys don't like him. How can you be a leader if you don't earn the respect of your fellow players? Maybe Saras can be one in a couple of years, but not this year. We need a leader now, not one in the next 2-5 years.


Yeah, and this probably relates back to his mouth being too big for a rookie. Plus, from what I saw of him yelling at his own players visciously in the Olympics, that's probably another reason why teamates probably wouldn't like him.


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## Gonzo (Oct 14, 2004)

PacersguyUSA said:


> I've never seen that happen, the shorts thing and not paying attention.


Well, nearly every player in the NBA do the shorts thing, and actually nearly every player in the NBA doesn't pay a lot of attention. A number of times they'll show our bench on tv and every player is just sitting back and relaxing (maybe not Tinsley 100%, but I've seen a number of our players do it).



> It is impossible to make Sara's defense better. He just doesn't have the athletic ability.


I'm not athletic, I'm not fast, but why do I have one of the best defenses on my basketball team? Effort, and the will to get better (which I believe Saras has). If only Saras can get some support from his teammates, maybe he would be a much better defender, and don't say that he doesn't have the athletic ability. How did he get in the NBA without atletic ability? Maybe he doesn't have the confidence.


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## rock747 (Aug 3, 2004)

PacersguyUSA said:


> I'm sick of hearing it too, especially from Jasikeviscius. .


Why at least someone is being honest about it? Jasikeviscius is the only one who admits it, probably because he's the only one who is trying.



> He thinks he some kind of God, when in reality it barely looks like he tries on defense a lot of times. There are times when he does look like he's giving effort, but the same goes for the rest of the team. I'd personally like to just hear him shut the **** up



Sarunas barely looks like he's trying on defence? That's not what i get from watching him. In fact he probably trys more than anyone on defence, he's just not as skilled in that area. He's the only one you see running at a guy from the other side of the court to put a hand in a shooters face.


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## PacersguyUSA (Sep 1, 2002)

> Sarunas barely looks like he's trying on defence? That's not what i get from watching him. In fact he probably trys more than anyone on defence, he's just not as skilled in that area. He's the only one you see running at a guy from the other side of the court to put a hand in a shooters face.



Too many times he lets a man walk right by him with what is perceived as little effort. Plus, instead of "running at a guy from the other side of the court to put a hand in a shooters face," it would be better to go inside for a rebound, because by the time he gets their the shooter will have his shot off already.


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## PacersguyUSA (Sep 1, 2002)

Larry Legend said:


> I'm not athletic, I'm not fast, but why do I have one of the best defenses on my basketball team? Effort, and the will to get better (which I believe Saras has). If only Saras can get some support from his teammates, maybe he would be a much better defender, and don't say that he doesn't have the athletic ability. How did he get in the NBA without atletic ability? Maybe he doesn't have the confidence.



I've never played against you obviously, but I'm pretty quick (about a 4.5 fourty) and if a defender is slow, I'm running right by them. It wouldn't be a problem if he didn't play a position where he'll have to guard Iverson, Wade, Hamilton, Francis, Marbury, etc.


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## mauzer (Jun 7, 2005)

QUOTE=PacersguyUSA]I've never seen that happen, the shorts thing and not paying attention. 

Then you have to be blind not to see your boy pouting like 5 year old girl. But you can understand him=rookie from Lithuania in the beggining of season is already playing better than him.



It is impossible to make Sara's defense better. He just doesn't have the athletic ability.

You are talking nonsense again-Saras improved his defence A LOT, even i, biggest Saras homer did not expect to improve it so fast. In the middle of season his defence will be good, if not very good. And you can always improve your athletisism, but you can't improve your brains , talent , fundamentals, passion ( pouting primadona).



Yeah, and this probably relates back to his mouth being too big for a rookie. Plus, from what I saw of him yelling at his own players visciously in the Olympics, that's probably another reason why teamates probably wouldn't like him.

His teamates in his former clubs and NT love him , it is a fact. He is natural born leader-and if he sees his teamate not giving 100% to victory-he will yell at him, and if neccessary-will kick his behind. he'll do everything for victory, thats why all fans of his former teams love him, and fans of opposing tema-hate him. 

[/QUOTE]


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## absolutebest (Jun 10, 2002)

I don't think that anybody really considers Sarunas to be a rookie. Technically he is, but I think that the rest of our players respect the hell out of him. They have to. And Jamal Tinsley may have the worst body language in the NBA. He and Jack.


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

PacersguyUSA said:


> It is impossible to make Sara's defense better. He just doesn't have the athletic ability.


Anthony Johnson? He's not exactly athletic. Actually, he's probably the most overweight player on our team, and he's still a good defender.


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## Scipio (Feb 18, 2004)

mauzer said:


> QUOTE=PacersguyUSA]
> Then you have to be blind not to see your boy pouting like 5 year old girl. But you can understand him=rookie from Lithuania in the beggining of season is already playing better than him.


Don't let him get to you. You know by now when Saras is mentioned he loses his touch with reality  Just ignore...the guy is a hater.


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## MillerTime (Jul 6, 2003)

Why do people make such a big deal about what Pacersguyusa says?

Like i said before, he hates European basketball players. That's it. Saras' defense is not great, but it's not as bad as he makes it sound to be. He plays with alot of passion and will, and that usually means more then athletic ability, because newsflash, ALL OF THESE GUYS ARE ATHLETIC, even AJ. Their pros, they wouldn't be here if it wasn't for their skills.

Saras is just fine, like i predicted in the off-season, he will be our starter by Feburary, and i think he's ahead of schedule.

He is playing very good, PacersGuyUSA will diss him for life, even if he averages 35pts, 10assists and 5 boards in the NBA Finals. Like i said, a Euro prolly stole his girlfriend and now he's a hater.... YAWN!


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## PacersguyUSA (Sep 1, 2002)

Pacers Fan said:


> Anthony Johnson? He's not exactly athletic. Actually, he's probably the most overweight player on our team, and he's still a good defender.



Anthony Johnson is quick though, especially in comparison to Sarunas. He's stronger too.



MillerTime said:


> Saras is just fine, like i predicted in the off-season, he will be our starter by Feburary, and i think he's ahead of schedule.
> 
> He is playing very good, PacersGuyUSA will diss him for life, even if he averages 35pts, 10assists and 5 boards in the NBA Finals.


That's entirely untrue. I give Sarunas his props when he does well (http://web.basketballboards.net/forum/showpost.php?p=2867466&postcount=30). He just has looked like the worst defensive player in the league a good majority of the time. People just like to ignore the positives I write about him, and focus on the negative truthes I type about him.


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## Banjoriddim (Aug 14, 2004)

PacersguyUSA didn't you say that Saras ist the player you hate the most, so why you bother yourself writing about how he does (few of us care), I mean I dislike him as a persone too (damn he used to dye hes hair to blond, has yellow teeth, has wierd look, if talks sometimes seems arrogant) but I like that he constantly proves that he is baller (and is euro  ), so I just don't judge him that much.


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