# Top 100 Programs in the Last 20 Years



## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

For the record, I consider 1985 the modern era of basketball, as it is when the 64 team tournament started.

Just for the fun of it, I am going through a process to identify the best programs of the past 20 years.

Basically it is a very systematic process, that is purely objective. 

I will consider two factors in my points system:
Seed: 16 points for a 1 seed, 15 points for a 2 seed, ..... 1 point for a 16 seed.
Tournament Wins: 1 point to teams eliminated in Round of 32, 3 to those eliminated in the round of 16, 6 to the round of 8, 10 to the final 4, 15 to the finalists, and 21 to the champions (basically, 1,2,3,4,5,6 points for each round) 

This rewards programs that are consitently in the top and I suspect the separator amongst the top teams could be tournament success.

I will then go down the list 10 teams at a time starting at some point next week.

I have tabulated the results up to 1989. Here are the top 25 teams from 1985-1989. This is the last info I will give you before the top 100 are unveiled.

1. Duke 111
2. Oklahoma 100 (I forgot how powerful a program this was at that time)
3. UNC 99
4. Georgetown 98
5. Michigan 94 
6. Syracuse 93
7. UNLV 89
8. Kansas 88
9. Illinois 86
10. Indiana 82
11. Georgia Tech 73
12. NC St 72
13. Louisville 67
Arizona 67
15. Iowa 65
16. St. John's 61
Memphis 61
18. LSU 58
19. Kentucky 57
Alabama 57
21. Temple 56
Purdue 56
Notre Dame 56
24. Villanova 54
25. Depaul 51

Hopefully, we have some good discussion with this. Perhaps can make there predictions at what the top 10 will ulitmately be, and predict where there team will rank on the list


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## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

Very nice JN...Not that this is going out on a limb or anything, but I have a feeling Duke's gonna be in the top 3, probably No. 1. You have yet to do the 91,92 (90-00) years right? Minus the no-K year, they at least made NCAA appearances. Obviously that's only going to help them... I'd imagine Arizona would move up during that time. Mike Bibby/Miles Simon led Nat'l Champ team, '01 Final Four, etc... I noticed Michigan St. isn't even on the list. You think they may sneak in the top 25 with those 3 straight Final 4 appearances?... UK @ 19? I'm sure they'll move up that list... That's all I have for now. I'm looking forward to the rest!


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

GREAT Idea. I am eagerly awaiting the final results...


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

It's a timely process - halfway there. I am up to 1994.


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## GTFan513 (Dec 4, 2003)

Im sure its hard to do...but my prediction on my team, Georgia Tech is that we'll be #20 or #21...probably not too high, but we had 2 final fours...and 2 sweet sixteens....and 1 championship game...so thats just my guess....


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## GTFan513 (Dec 4, 2003)

well I take it back...from what I can tell Ga Tech will be around #16 or #17 as we had good success in the early 90's!...just outta curiousity where are you getting W-L and seed records JR? And also are you including the 1984-5 season...cuz that would be 20 years if you are..and that would help Tech...


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

You know these numbers are inaccurate Junior.   

Nice work. I'm shocked Kentucky was so low. I guess since Sutton was cheating in the 80's, when they got probation it was over.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> You know these numbers are inaccurate Junior.
> 
> Nice work. I'm shocked Kentucky was so low. I guess since Sutton was cheating in the 80's, when they got probation it was over.


That's only from 85-89, Kentucky will finish much higher then that.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>GTFan513</b>!
> well I take it back...from what I can tell Ga Tech will be around #16 or #17 as we had good success in the early 90's!...just outta curiousity where are you getting W-L and seed records JR? And also are you including the 1984-5 season...cuz that would be 20 years if you are..and that would help Tech...



http://www.shrpsports.com/collbask/1985.htm

Through 1994, Georgia Tech is #11 which actually suprised me greatly. I did not think they had such a great history in the mid 80's early 90's, but 6 top 6 seeds over a 10 year period, as well as 9 tournament appearances is a very good run.

I do expect them to fall somewhat as they have missed the tournament more frequently over the past 10 years. I suspect your guess will be very, very close.


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## HanesOnU (Nov 10, 2004)

I think you should get rewarded more for going far in the tourney. Anyone can make it, but you have to have success.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>HanesOnU</b>!
> I think you should get rewarded more for going far in the tourney. Anyone can make it, but you have to have success.


Well, I think I did a fair job of considering that but I am certainly open to suggestions.

Currently

Take #2 Seeds. They get 15 points. then they get the following additional points for tourney success:
Knocked Out in First Round: 0pts
" " Second Round: 1 pts
" " Third Round : 3 pts
" " Fourth Round : 6 pts
" " Final Four : 10 pts
Finalist : 15 pts
Champion : 21 pts


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

So here are the top 25 from 1985-1994 (halfway there)

1. Duke 258
2. UNC 207
3. Kansas 191
4. Michigan 186
5. Indiana 171
6. Arizona 155
7. Syracuse 154
8. UNLV 152
9. Georgetown 144
10. Arkansas 141
11. Georgia Tech 132
12. Oklahoma 130
13. Louisville 124
14. Illinois 119
Kentucky 119
16. St. John's 115
17. Purdue 112
18. Temple 111
19. Alabama 108
20. Missouri 103
21. Iowa 99
LSU
23. Seton Hall 98
24. UCLA 94
25. Virginia 88


Some of the surprises for me are:
Michigan - I thought that 89 was an isolated run, and they were not much in basketball until the fab four. Clearly I was wrong - expect them to fall substantially though in the next 10 years.

I was also surpised to see Alabama in the top 20. But they pretty much made the tournament every year from a 5-10 seed.


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## HoosierDaddy (Nov 18, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>JuniorNoboa</b>!
> So here are the top 25 from 1985-1994 (halfway there)
> 
> 1. Duke 258
> ...


Michigan also had that cheating/paying players fiasco also.


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## Willo (Nov 21, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>JuniorNoboa</b>!
> 14. Illinois 119
> 19. Alabama 108
> 21. Iowa 99
> 25. Virginia 88


These four making the list surprize me. I don't ever remember hearing much about them.

3 'U's- Utah, UMass and UConn should show up soon.

I will be very intersted to see how mid-majors do, including the MAC schools. (I would think Kent State and Ball State would be able to squeek in, both have gained a number of births and had some sucess)


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Willo</b>!
> 
> 
> These four making the list surprize me. I don't ever remember hearing much about them.
> ...


Those four schools were just consistent over the period - not overwhelming tourney success but consistently between 3 and 10 seed every year.

Utah only starting have success around 1993. Utah did ultimately finish #31.
UMass first made tourney in 1991. They did finish at #42.
And UConn never made the tourney before 1990. They did finish at #9.

Under my formula missing the tourney can hurt.

One of the things that can be potentially be viewed as flawed in the formula I used to compile the results is that it unfairly hurts the mid-majors. Some will argue that the MAC has been underseeded and have been snubbed from the tournament. As noted I did not use any subjectivity in my compilation. I thought using win-loss records by themselves would be flawed since it clearly does not consider SOS. I figured the committee had used SOS in their seeds - not perfect but I think over 20 years things would even out. I have considered a formula that might help non major conference teams. It would be a weighted 3 component ranking, that would consider, season success (based on seeds), tournament success, and win-loss ranking. It would take a long time to dig up these results. 


Here's how MAC teams did (in top 200):
Miami (Ohio) finished 87th
Ball St finished 96 (see my other thread for final standings)
Kent finished 110 
Eastern Michigan - 114
Western Michigan - 139
Central Michigan - 146
Ohio finished - 162.
Northern Illiois - 172
Marshall - 182
Central Florida - 185


Kent did have the 60th best tournament performance.
Ball St had the 73rd best tournament performance.


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## STLfan (Sep 25, 2003)

JuniorNoboa thanks for breaking all that down it was very interestnig to read. I appreciate the effort. I was glad to see Missouri close to the top 25 at number 28. 

I was wondering if you figured the numbers out for all the teams and if you did I was hopeing you could post the big 12's standings you already have 

2. Kansas
8. Oklahoma
22. Oklahoma St.
23. Texas
28. Missouri
38. Iowa St
66. Kansas St
69. Texas Tech
72. Nebraska

I was just wondering where Colorado, Baylor and Texas A&M finished. If you have these numbers great if not don't worry about it. Again thanks. 

Also no wonder MU has had trouble with our two biggest rivals KU at #2 and the Illini at #12 ouch we don't pick easy targets.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

Anyone else have any questions. With the sort function they are really easy to answer. so feel free to ask.


130. Colorado (2 Tourney Appearances, one 8 seed, one 9 seed, one win (Chauncey Billups team)
156. Baylor (1 Tourney Appearance, one 8 seed)
185. Texas A&M (1 Tourney Appearance, one 12 seed)


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