# Does Morrison's 198 pounds scare anyone?



## Reep (Jun 4, 2003)

While I prefer well-rounded players, Morrison's defensive abilities don't scare me that much becuase I know he will try. What does bother me is having a SF (he is not an SG and certainly not a PF) who weighs 198 lbs. I mean, that isn't even Tayshaun Prince. It's barely Rip Hamilton. I can just see 220-230 lbs. SF abusing Morrison to score, rebound, set picks, etc. And will he be able to stay healthy getting popped around?

His agent says to not worry about his "workout" weight, that his playing weight will be up to 220. Really? How is going to do that? Is he all the sudden going to gain 22 pounds of muscle? 

This is my biggest concern about Morrison.


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## Oil Can (May 25, 2006)

Morrison does need to put on weight and will. Frankly, the "takes plays off" knock about Rudy Gay scare me much more. 

Give me 198 pounds and the proven heart of a champion over 220 pounds (Gay) of "hope his attitude stays positive".


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## Reep (Jun 4, 2003)

Oil Can said:


> Morrison does need to put on weight and will. Frankly, the "takes plays off" knock about Rudy Gay scare me much more.
> 
> Give me 198 pounds and the proven heart of a champion over 220 pounds (Gay) of "hope his attitude stays positive".


They are both concerns to me. But every silver lining has its cloud.


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## Foulzilla (Jan 11, 2005)

Not particularly. I have no doubt he'll put on some weight his first year like many other players. Besides, many good players have been rather light. Prince, Miller, Hamilton, etc. If after a year or two he's still that light, I'd be a little more concerned.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

Morrison's admitted to taking off half the game (claiming that he couldn't try on defense because his team asked him to score nearly 30 points a game), which is a bigger deal than allegations that Gay sometimes floats, IMO.

I'm not concerned about Morrison's weight. He is probably pretty strong for that weight, and will work hard to improve his strength and weight.

Ed O.


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## Oil Can (May 25, 2006)

Ed O. 

Morrison's defense is a valid concern for many. I will grant you that.


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## crandc (Sep 15, 2004)

What's Iverson, like 135? I know he is shorter than Morrison but skinny does not mean can't play.
A lot of young men continue to develop into their early 20s. Go look at some old pics of some players and how skinny they were (no I am not talking about Barry Bonds, he is a "special case").


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## Reep (Jun 4, 2003)

crandc said:


> What's Iverson, like 135? I know he is shorter than Morrison but skinny does not mean can't play.
> A lot of young men continue to develop into their early 20s. Go look at some old pics of some players and how skinny they were (no I am not talking about Barry Bonds, he is a "special case").


Yes, but skinny going up against point guards is different than skinny going up against forwards. I think the rule changes help make this less of an issue except in rebounding.


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## maxiep (May 7, 2003)

That scared the life out of me. Basically, at 6'6.5" and 198 pounds, Morrison has the same frame as Bobby Gross. Unfortunately, it's a different game today than it was in the 1970s. 

I think Morrison cares about improving his defensive game and desperately wants to get better. I think he'll work on his defensive footwork and positioning. And I think none of that will matter when he gets posted up time and time and time again. In the end, if you're not freakishly long or athletic as a SF, you need to be strong.

I can see Morrison coming into camp at 210-215 lbs and over the course of a season losing 15-20 lbs because of the stress and exertion of an NBA season.


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## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

Ed hit this one on the head. Morrison has flat out said he doesn't play the defense he could because of his offense. Morrison might be better under Nate "defense first and we'll deal with our pathetic scoring average" McMillan, but you should all stop slamming Gay for talking plays off because ever player except role players and superstars do it.


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## B_&_B (Feb 19, 2004)

mediocre man said:


> Ed hit this one on the head. Morrison has flat out said he doesn't play the defense he could because of his offense. Morrison might be better under Nate "defense first and we'll deal with our pathetic scoring average" McMillan, but you should all stop slamming Gay for talking plays off because ever player except role players and superstars do it.


Even superstars take it easy on a play here and there. I've heard and read numerous interviews in which superstars say they had to learn to use "different gears" during the games and a big part of learning the NBA game is to learn when to use 5th gear and when to use 3rd to get a quick rest.


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## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

BEER&BASKETBALL said:


> Even superstars take it easy on a play here and there. I've heard and read numerous interviews in which superstars say they had to learn to use "different gears" during the games and a big part of learning the NBA game is to learn when to use 5th gear and when to use 3rd to get a quick rest.




Maybe I should have said special few players. Bird, Magic, Thomas....players like that always seemed to be playing at a high level.


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## B_&_B (Feb 19, 2004)

mediocre man said:


> Maybe I should have said special few players. Bird, Magic, Thomas....players like that always seemed to be playing at a high level.


Geez... get it right the first time!


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

Ed O said:


> Morrison's admitted to taking off half the game (claiming that he couldn't try on defense because his team asked him to score nearly 30 points a game), which is a bigger deal than allegations that Gay sometimes floats, IMO.
> 
> I'm not concerned about Morrison's weight. He is probably pretty strong for that weight, and will work hard to improve his strength and weight.
> 
> Ed O.


if you know anything about morrison you know he says more than his prayers, i think the defensive effort was there, sometimes effective sometimes not, one of the stats i do pay attention to is a guy's +- numbers(not really a stat). morrison was about +15 last year off the top of my head and that was against the okla states,memphis,msu and uconns as well as the wcc. thats really all i care about.


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## Tince (Jul 11, 2004)

Most know that I'm a Gay over Morrison guy, but Morrison's weight isn't a major concern because the strength and conditioning programs in the NBA are top notch. The kid will bulk up to the ideal weight within 2-3 years.


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## PorterIn2004 (Jan 1, 2003)

Ed O said:


> Morrison's admitted to taking off half the game (claiming that he couldn't try on defense because his team asked him to score nearly 30 points a game), which is a bigger deal than allegations that Gay sometimes floats, IMO.
> 
> Ed O.


Ed, I think I'm reading that differently than you are. It sounds to me like Morrison taking half the game off was a tactical decision... whether on his part or his coach's it's harder to say. Regardless, he _was_ asked to score nearly 30 a game -- it seems reasonable that his coach might indeed have suggested the tactic. Even if he's drafted to a train-wreck of a team such as this one, the situation will be different. Even if he turns out to be the best player on the floor, his teamates are going to be much nearer peers -- even he's going to be clear that he doesn't need to carry so much of the offensive load (and if he's not, we can bet that most NBA coaches and certainly Nate would _make_ it clear).

Gay, on the other hand, is being accused (fairly or not) of not having his head in the game, not really caring, etc. I'm not saying it's fair or even really offering a personal opinion about it -- I've seen far too little of Gay to have an informed opinion. I'm just playing devil's advocate, pointing out that it's not _that_ unreasonable that some folks are more concerned about Gay than Morrison.


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## TP3 (Jan 26, 2003)

How much does Tayshaun Prince weigh?


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## mgb (Jun 26, 2004)

PorterIn2004 said:


> Gay, on the other hand, is being accused (fairly or not) of not having his head in the game, not really caring, etc. I'm not saying it's fair or even really offering a personal opinion about it -- I've seen far too little of Gay to have an informed opinion. I'm just playing devil's advocate, pointing out that it's not _that_ unreasonable that some folks are more concerned about Gay than Morrison.


Ya, no player goes 100% all the time. That doesn't mean they take plays off. They just pace themselves. What we really are talking about is focus. Miles is not focus on the task at hand a lot of the times. He just goes through the motions.

Taking what Morrison said and interpreting it as him taking half the game off is completely misleading. A much more accurate interpretation, and a much less bias one, is he just doesn't exert as much energy on D as he does on O, that doesn't mean he takes half the game off.


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## Tince (Jul 11, 2004)

TP3 said:


> How much does Tayshaun Prince weigh?


 Not much, but I'm not sure I'd take him with the 4th pick either.


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## Reep (Jun 4, 2003)

TP3 said:


> How much does Tayshaun Prince weigh?


He's listed at 215 @ 6'9"


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Reep said:


> He's listed at 215 @ 6'9"


listed, but we all know thats not the truth...


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

PorterIn2004 said:


> Gay, on the other hand, is being accused (fairly or not) of not having his head in the game, not really caring, etc. I'm not saying it's fair or even really offering a personal opinion about it -- I've seen far too little of Gay to have an informed opinion. I'm just playing devil's advocate, pointing out that it's not _that_ unreasonable that some folks are more concerned about Gay than Morrison.


Who's concerned about Gay's inability to focus? Or his tendency to drift? Was it his teammates, or his coach? I don't think so.

So it's third parties that come up with the criticism that he's not focused.

On Morrison's side, he's ADMITTED that he didn't try on defense. He's claiming that it's because he was asked to score nearly 30 points a game. And I believe it, because I don't recall his coach or teammates complaining about his lack of defense.

Why the double standard? Why is it acceptable for some people to make claims about an unproven and unprovable point (Gay's concentration level) but not about Morrison's admitted failing (his poor defense)?

I understand that there's a difference between the two situations, but IMO Morrison's situation is more damning because it shows that he wasn't capable of defending at a high level even in the NCAAs when he was asked to be the leading scorer of his team. Gay, on the other hand, WAS his team's leading scorer (on a team stacked with potential NBA players) AND he was known for his defense... the "lack of focus" criticism is people grasping to understand why a 19 year old kid on a deep team didn't put up the type of numbers that Morrison, 2 years older and only playing on one end of the floor, was able to.

Ed O.


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## Utherhimo (Feb 20, 2005)

ed sometime you are too windy


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## It's_GO_Time (Oct 13, 2005)

*Kiss_My_Darius*



Ed O said:


> Who's concerned about Gay's inability to focus? Or his tendency to drift? Was it his teammates, or his coach? I don't think so.
> 
> So it's third parties that come up with the criticism that he's not focused.
> 
> ...



I wasn't originally on board with this "taking a half game off" interpretation, but I'm starting to see where you are coming from.

More I like the idea of double standard. When Gay gets critized for not showing up in games and they use his lack of numbers to show this, I thought that was a valid concern. But if Morrison is excused from intense defense because of his offense (don't like that, but get it), shouldn't Gay be excused from offensive numbers because he was concentrating on defense. Maybe he was asked to be the defenseive stopper or maybe he was defending a tough opponent and concentrated on that knowing his team could score without him

I don't know because I did watch any of those "disappearance" games, but why automatically say he isn't committed to the sport when he could have been asserting his energy on defense those games. No one wants to hear that "well i didn't score because I was concentrating on defense," and you won't hear a player say it whether true or not. But isn't Morrison saying essentially the same thing.

Is any of this your point Ed???


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## 2k (Dec 30, 2005)

*Re: Kiss_My_Darius*

I think he is better off staying under 215 so 15 pounds is not a big deal to me. I'm more worried about his defense. I dont think he will be a bad defensive player I'm just worried that unless the Blazers add Oden they will need a great defender and I doubt Morrison will be a great defender.


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

Ed O said:


> Who's concerned about Gay's inability to focus? Or his tendency to drift? Was it his teammates, or his coach? I don't think so.
> 
> So it's third parties that come up with the criticism that he's not focused.
> 
> ...


maybe legit opinions are formed ed because we actually watch the games, i've seen several uconn games over the last 2 years and if you didnt know it was gay projected at the top of the draft you would think it was villanueva or boone or armstrong or williams not gay, that's my point the guy is talented but he needs to put it together, i actually think he will be a better pro than college player. as for morrison like i said before i think i missed about 3-5 games over the last two years either on the tube or in person and he is joking when he says he doesnt play defense, he isnt a good defender and i would be concerned but its not like he isnt trying. saying he takes half the game off is a disservice to the effort he expends in a game. wasnt it him that said his feet or his legs might fall off because the diabitis, he's a little whacked.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

*Re: Kiss_My_Darius*



Kiss_My_Darius said:


> Is any of this your point Ed???


Yes, that's part of it.

Ed O.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

rainman said:


> maybe legit opinions are formed ed because we actually watch the games, i've seen several uconn games over the last 2 years


Oh, so *you* watched games. Unlike people that disagree with you, presumably? And unlike Gay's coach and teammates, who are usually busy doing something else, I guess.



> and if you didnt know it was gay projected at the top of the draft you would think it was villanueva or boone or armstrong or williams not gay, that's my point the guy is talented but he needs to put it together,


Yeah, if only he led his team in scoring or something as a 19 year old on a team that only lost four games... oh, wait.



> i actually think he will be a better pro than college player. as for morrison like i said before i think i missed about 3-5 games over the last two years either on the tube or in person and he is joking when he says he doesnt play defense, he isnt a good defender and i would be concerned but its not like he isnt trying. saying he takes half the game off is a disservice to the effort he expends in a game. wasnt it him that said his feet or his legs might fall off because the diabitis, he's a little whacked.


That is classic... so he is JOKING that he didn't give as much on defense as he could have?

Wow.

Ed O.


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

Ed O said:


> Oh, so *you* watched games. Unlike people that disagree with you, presumably? And unlike Gay's coach and teammates, who are usually busy doing something else, I guess.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


ed, lighten up, go down to starbucks and get a chai tea and mellow out. i am only saying i have seen morrison a lot and i know some havent as much, its my opinion that the defensive effort is there, and i do admit he isnt a great defender. as for rudy if you like him for your team great, i think he has a lot of upside but i would like to see more effort and consistancy, that also is my opinion. you pretty much own this forum so if my posting here is a problem let me know i'll hang out somewhere else(dont make me hang out on the sonics forum)


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## West44 (Jun 29, 2005)

No - because he'll being playing on the perimeter where light and quick is an advantage and he did fairly well on the strength test.

IMO - the biggest mistake teams in all sports make when drafting is to place too high of an emphasis on measurements. success has come to people of all shapes and sizes, quickness levels, etc. 

AM can flat ball and that's all that matters. No draft prospect has proven more and is more ready to make an immediate contribution. I expect AM to win ROY.

Besides, he's the native son the city wants to get behind and root for. Blazers have got to do this if they have a chance.

btw - as a former OR resident, it's great to see that Portland's board is the busiest on this website...great fans.


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## Utherhimo (Feb 20, 2005)

rainman you are welcome here just as much as ed


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Wasn't it Jim Calhoun, Rudy Gay's very own coach who was knocking the NBA because of its lure of millions of dollars to players who should stay in college longer to develop their game...He said this at a press conference during the end of the year and it was pertaining to a question about Rudy Gay.


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## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

rainman said:


> ed, lighten up, go down to starbucks and get a chai tea and mellow out. i am only saying i have seen morrison a lot and i know some havent as much, its my opinion that the defensive effort is there, and i do admit he isnt a great defender. as for rudy if you like him for your team great, i think he has a lot of upside but i would like to see more effort and consistancy, that also is my opinion. you pretty much own this forum so if my posting here is a problem let me know i'll hang out somewhere else(dont make me hang out on the sonics forum)


Dude, you can't bust out something like 'Adam Morrison is joking about not giving effort on defense' or 'I actually watch the games,' and not expect that somebody is going to call you on it. And then, when they DO call you on it, it's pretty weak to pull out the 'poor me' card and tell that person to lighten up. I'm pretty sure Ed O watched a lot of UConn games (as well as Gonzaga games) so that's not a great argument. 

Ed O has a position, the same one he's always had on Morrison vs. Gay, and I think his points are good and he's not at all in need of 'lightening up.'


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## Mr. Hobbes (Jul 1, 2005)

Morrison being 198 lbs scares the crap out of me. I'm no expert, but I do notice he likes to bully defenders with his shoulders quite a bit. 198 lbs isn't a lot of weight to throw around in the league. Just watching him play, he seems like he's around 230. 198 is really, really light.


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

Fork said:


> Dude, you can't bust out something like 'Adam Morrison is joking about not giving effort on defense' or 'I actually watch the games,' and not expect that somebody is going to call you on it. And then, when they DO call you on it, it's pretty weak to pull out the 'poor me' card and tell that person to lighten up. I'm pretty sure Ed O watched a lot of UConn games (as well as Gonzaga games) so that's not a great argument.
> 
> Ed O has a position, the same one he's always had on Morrison vs. Gay, and I think his points are good and he's not at all in need of 'lightening up.'


when someone starts out a post with dude i know not to expect much, if you dont like what i post dont freaking read it, ed can take care of himself he doesnt need you to come to his defense. as for morrison i was hoping he would go to the blazers so i could see him play up in seattle, now i think he would be better somewhere else.


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## rebelsun (Nov 25, 2003)

Morrison did put up 11 reps of 185, which kind of offsets him weighing in at 198.

I imagine he'll bulk up some for the season, but I wonder how that weight will affect his speed/quickness/etc - which is something he can't afford to lose.

It'll be interesting to see how he fares over the course of the season.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

RebelSun said:


> Morrison did put up 11 reps of 185, which kind of offsets him weighing in at 198.
> 
> I imagine he'll bulk up some for the season, but I wonder how that weight will affect his speed/quickness/etc - which is something he can't afford to lose.
> 
> It'll be interesting to see how he fares over the course of the season.


Exactly, he's stronger than LaMarcus Aldridge....I'm pretty sure he can handle himself at the SF spot in the league.


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

RebelSun said:


> Morrison did put up 11 reps of 185, which kind of offsets him weighing in at 198.
> 
> I imagine he'll bulk up some for the season, but I wonder how that weight will affect his speed/quickness/etc - which is something he can't afford to lose.
> 
> It'll be interesting to see how he fares over the course of the season.



i think he played at 215 during the college season but you would have to think that the last 2 or 3 weeks has been grueling for these guys, all the travel, the workouts, the stress of it all. i know its better than the 9 to 5 life but for a guy to tweak a back here or there or get run down would be normal as far as i'm concerned, there have been a lot of guys like jamal wilkes, george gervin, shawn marion, tayshaun prince, reggie miller who didnt carry much weight around with them, they did have an ability to put the ball in the basket, that's what i'm looing for.


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## furball (Jul 25, 2004)

I could give a damn about someones weight. If you can play, you can play. Period. Reggie Miller was a stick his entire career. What concerns me most is his ball handling. Have any of you watched the video on the Blazer site? He dribbles like Drexler. That may work against Seamus Boxley, but it won't work against Tashaun Prince or Bruce Bowen. I'm hoping for Morrison, but something tells me Gay is going to be special.


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## yakbladder (Sep 13, 2003)

zagsfan20 said:


> Wasn't it Jim Calhoun, Rudy Gay's very own coach who was knocking the NBA because of its lure of millions of dollars to players who should stay in college longer to develop their game...He said this at a press conference during the end of the year and it was pertaining to a question about Rudy Gay.


Yeah, it couldn't possibly be because he wanted the kid to stay at UConn so that maybe he could continue to win games and keep his job...

Morrison at 198 should not be a big concern EXCEPT that you have to accept the fact he's going to get posted up and scored on. That's the way it is. Every NBA player is going to have some weakness, so as long as you are willing to bite on that, you're good to go.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

yakbladder said:


> Yeah, it couldn't possibly be because he wanted the kid to stay at UConn so that maybe he could continue to win games and keep his job...
> 
> Morrison at 198 should not be a big concern EXCEPT that you have to accept the fact he's going to get posted up and scored on. That's the way it is. Every NBA player is going to have some weakness, so as long as you are willing to bite on that, you're good to go.


And I'm sure he wanted Caron Butler, Emeka Okafor, Charlie Villanueva and all the other players from UCONN to stay, but I never saw him say anything like that when they were playing.


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

zagsfan20 said:


> And I'm sure he wanted Caron Butler, Emeka Okafor, Charlie Villanueva and all the other players from UCONN to stay, but I never saw him say anything like that when they were playing.


how many of those guys were sophomores?

STOMP


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

STOMP said:


> how many of those guys were sophomores?
> 
> STOMP


butler and charlie


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## hasoos (Jan 3, 2003)

The weight of Morrison does not concern me. I have already defended players at other positions who are coming in a bit light (Aldridge), because its a well known fact that players come into the league not in NBA shape and usually take a year or two in order to figure out how strong they have to be to compete for 82 games and the playoffs. The first year is literally a shock to most when they hit training camp, let alone game 50 when they are used to playing 30 games a year. The 2nd year they come back better prepared, and by the 3rd, usually the players who are going to be good bring their body into camp in superior physical shape. During these phases they add muscle and body weight, but they also have to make sure not to put on too much or it can effect their game if not done correctly. 

As for Morrisons defense, a lot of that could be on the coach, and a lot of that could be on the fact that a good offense will wear down an opposing player and make them not as good at the offensive end. This only works when one who is matched up on Morrison defensively is one of the main scorers from the other team. Attack them, make them burn their energy defending you, and get them in foul trouble so you can defend the 2nd string guy. 

Morrison could weight 85 pounds, and I wouldn't care as long as he is kicking butt and taking names. If it becomes a liability, then I care.


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

hasoos said:


> The weight of Morrison does not concern me. I have already defended players at other positions who are coming in a bit light (Aldridge), because its a well known fact that players come into the league not in NBA shape and usually take a year or two in order to figure out how strong they have to be to compete for 82 games and the playoffs. The first year is literally a shock to most when they hit training camp, let alone game 50 when they are used to playing 30 games a year. The 2nd year they come back better prepared, and by the 3rd, usually the players who are going to be good bring their body into camp in superior physical shape. During these phases they add muscle and body weight, but they also have to make sure not to put on too much or it can effect their game if not done correctly.
> 
> As for Morrisons defense, a lot of that could be on the coach, and a lot of that could be on the fact that a good offense will wear down an opposing player and make them not as good at the offensive end. This only works when one who is matched up on Morrison defensively is one of the main scorers from the other team. Attack them, make them burn their energy defending you, and get them in foul trouble so you can defend the 2nd string guy.
> 
> Morrison could weight 85 pounds, and I wouldn't care as long as he is kicking butt and taking names. If it becomes a liability, then I care.


good post


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

rainman said:


> butler and charlie


of course Caron was a 22 year old soph when he was drafted... and Charlie was a full year older then Gay when he declared. I'd also put both well behind Rudy in the buzz they generated as prospects, and the speculations of them turning pro were a lot less persistent. IMO there are enough plausable reasons that Calhoun could have made a _I'd rather Rudy stay at UCONN_ statement, without being the true red flag warning about his character that Zags is presenting. 

I doubt Rudy is available by the time Portland selects, so...

STOMP


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

STOMP said:


> of course Caron was a 22 year old soph when he was drafted... and Charlie was a full year older then Gay when he declared. I'd also put both well behind Rudy in the buzz they generated as prospects, and the speculations of them turning pro were a lot less persistent. IMO there are enough plausable reasons that Calhoun could have made a _I'd rather Rudy stay at UCONN_ statement, without being the true red flag warning about his character that Zags is presenting.
> 
> I doubt Rudy is available by the time Portland selects, so...
> 
> STOMP


You asked for Sophmores not what age they were as sophmores.

I'm not sure what kind of buzz you are talking about, Rudy was considered the top pick in this years draft by a lot of the draft websites around and his stock was at an all-time high, then he played and his game got exposed.

Villanueva was considered a high lottery pick coming out of high school.

and I wasn't bringing up anything about his character, I was bringing up that Calhoun thought he should stay because he's not NBA ready.


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

zagsfan20 said:


> You asked for Sophmores not what age they were as sophmores.


sure and then I gave those early declared sophs some context as to why they were in different situations at UCONN then RG. 



> I'm not sure what kind of buzz you are talking about, Rudy was considered the top pick in this years draft by a lot of the draft websites around and his stock was at an all-time high, then he played and his game got exposed.


yeah exposed  I bet he's the top swing player selected and gone in the top 3... what a slide. 



> Villanueva was considered a high lottery pick coming out of high school.


High lottery pick? In what fantasy world are you speaking of? He was a highly thought of HS player (Rivals rated him the 5th best HSer) thinking of going directly to the pros. Then he very publically bombed in workouts and pulled out of the draft when it was doubtful he'd go in round 1, if at all... I recall nbadraftnet rating him mid 2nd round before he did withdraw. The critisism of his effort in those workouts and throughout his career at UCONN was near constant.

http://www.kusports.com/news/mens_hoop_recruiting/story/107218



> and I wasn't bringing up anything about his character, I was bringing up that Calhoun thought he should stay because he's not NBA ready.


Well I for one have learned not to take your insights/recollections/trust me statements at face value... heck it was just a week back where you were insisting that Adam "is a legitamate 6'8". What happened to that 1.5" Zagsfan? That you constantly degrade all the other top prospects in this draft while defending your special guy ad nausium makes taking your thoughts with a side of salt a must. If you can provide a link of those Calhoun comments in context I'd be interested to read and consider them though. Without that it just reads like the same old biased stuff.

STOMP


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

STOMP said:


> sure and then I gave those early declared sophs some context as to why they were in different situations at UCONN then RG.
> 
> 
> yeah exposed  I bet he's the top swing player selected and gone in the top 3... what a slide.
> ...



6'7.5 or 6'8" (w/ shoes, cause they do play w/ shoes) not really much of a difference...

Look at the article written by Jonathon Givony that proves that people shouldn't have their mind warped by numbers that are pretty pointless in the grand scheme of things.

I can't find a link right now, but I can remember it vividly, it was right after their loss to Syracuse in the Big East tournament. Calhoun said that it was a shame that the NBA was luring unproven college players away from schools, when they could use more college seasoning. 

btw, I don't think my opinion is any more biased than someone who doesn't like Morrison and will go at any lengths to try find flaws in the littlest things about him that aren't even an issue with other prospects.



> yeah exposed  I bet he's the top swing player selected and gone in the top 3... what a slide.


Same thing happened with Darius Miles, teams fall in love with athletic freaks. It wouldn't surprise me that a team took a big gamble and got him in the top 3.

Look at most mock drafts right now, they have Toronto taking Morrison #1. Some of you people have been bashing Morrison for the past two years, yet the guys who run mock drafts for a living feel that he will be the #1 pick.

Some of you are way off base if your insinuating that I'm vastly overrating Morrison, because look around, his stock is at an all-time high and this is having already done the workouts.


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

zagsfan20 said:


> 6'7.5 or 6'8" (w/ shoes, cause they do play w/ shoes) not really much of a difference...


he's 7'0, 300lbs... if he's on stilts and with a really big backpack on. *Legitamate* measurements are what you measure barefoot. In the real world he's on the short, light, and slow end of the spectrum compared to other NBA 3's... with or without shoes or backpacks. When you say he's a legit 6'8 and he turns out to actually be a legit 6'6.5, and then retreat to this sort of stuff is exactly why I don't take your relayed Calhoun quote at face value. 



> Look at the article written by Jonathon Givony that proves that people shouldn't have their mind warped by numbers that are pretty pointless in the grand scheme of things.


yeah the opinion of some guy I've never heard proves everything. remind me why the league wastes their time weighing, measuring, and working out these guys? It seems they could cut to the heart of the matter and save themselves some time and money by just asking you whats what 



> I can't find a link right now, but I can remember it vividly, it was right after their loss to Syracuse in the Big East tournament. Calhoun said that it was a shame that the NBA was luring unproven college players away from schools, when they could use more college seasoning.


you missed my whole point. You're very biased towards AM and have proven so beyond question. Thats fine, but I can't take your recollections without a huge grain of salt. You pulling some supposed anti-Rudy Gay quote from his coach reads like you just bashing away as per usual. Sorry.



> btw, I don't think my opinion is any more biased than someone who doesn't like Morrison and will go at any lengths to try find flaws in the littlest things about him that aren't even an issue with other prospects.


I admit I'm biased towards players with legit size, athletisism, and talent at their respective position that might benefit my favorite NBA club. I also happen to prefer frontcourt players who can defend as it's my firm belief that thats a key ingredient in most winning NBA clubs. Those are all legit reasons I don't happen to think so much of the guy who you've argued for nonstop for years now. Conversely you're biased towards a single player like no one else on this board. While I recognise him as an offensive talent, I don't happen to think he's the 4th best talent in this draft or in possession of a desperately needed skillset in Portland. Our biases (you pro-Morrison, mine pro-Blazers) simply conflict.



> Look at most mock drafts right now, they have Toronto taking Morrison #1. Some of you people have been bashing Morrison for the past two years, yet the guys who run mock drafts for a living feel that he will be the #1 pick.
> 
> Some of you are way off base if your insinuating that I'm vastly overrating Morrison, because look around, his stock is at an all-time high and this is having already done the workouts.


do you really think that the mock drafts from those websites mean a bleep thing at this point? Apparently you haven't noticed me repeatedly labeling this draft as lacking star talent in general, or that nbadraft.net dramatically flip flops it's player ratings every week/every year about this time... it's just speculations/guesses from a website that wants a piece of the consumer pie and is trying to get it by pushing NBA fan's collective buttons. Thats how those guys _make their living_. In past years their day of guesses have held some water, but those are a ways away. 

AM may end up going anywhere in the top 10 this year and it wouldn't surprise me that much, but him measuring much shorter and lighter then avertised does not help his cause, and neither does him showing poorly (as expected) in the athletic portion of the combine. He's a talent, but there are clear holes in his game and the way he projects as a player at the next level. That he's a one trick pony duplicate of the guy the Blazers selected last year (physically and with the sort of game he brings), does not help his Blazer prospects. 

I'd venture a guess that he's going to be available at #4... and at #5 as well.

STOMP


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## LameR (Jan 4, 2004)

zagsfan20 said:


> 6
> btw, I don't think my opinion is any more biased than someone who doesn't like Morrison and will go at any lengths to try find flaws in the littlest things about him that aren't even an issue with other prospects.


I don't mean this as an attack, but you need to know that you are being very biased. 

[story time] During the season, I used to hate reading your posts because it seemed as if you only looked at things Morrison/Zag related in one way. As the off-season came into play, I decided that maybe I was being a little close-minded towards you/Morrison/Gonzaga because of how some of my friends' Gonzaga related enthusiam annoyed me (they knew nothing of college basketball, and it was annoying to hear them pretend to know what they were talking about). [/story time]

Lately though, you've drifted back to your concrete stance on all things Morrison, and it's become pretty annoying. You seem to know a lot about basketball, and have had good debates and insights on things of the past, but you seem blinded by Morrison these days. Think about it. This entire page of the thread is devoted to you and STOMP arguing over your biasedness (or lack thereof). Seems kind of unecessary to me.


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## Tince (Jul 11, 2004)

LameR said:



> I don't mean this as an attack, but you need to know that you are being very biased.
> 
> [story time] During the season, I used to hate reading your posts because it seemed as if you only looked at things Morrison/Zag related in one way. As the off-season came into play, I decided that maybe I was being a little close-minded towards you/Morrison/Gonzaga because of how some of my friends' Gonzaga related enthusiam annoyed me (they knew nothing of college basketball, and it was annoying to hear them pretend to know what they were talking about). [/story time]
> 
> Lately though, you've drifted back to your concrete stance on all things Morrison, and it's become pretty annoying. You seem to know a lot about basketball, and have had good debates and insights on things of the past, but you seem blinded by Morrison these days. Think about it. This entire page of the thread is devoted to you and STOMP arguing over your biasedness (or lack thereof). Seems kind of unecessary to me.


This is the total truth.

If I were a Morrison fan and really wanted other fans to "see the light", I certainly would approch it in a different way. I feel like whenever I read a thread like this, if someone doesnt' have Morrison #1 on their draft board their basketball knowledge is insulted for no reason. It's ok that people don't think Morrison going to be that great or they don't feel he's the best choice with the Blazers pick. 

Opinions on this board differ greatly, but most people here are willing to consider other points of view as long as they are being respected. Overall, I'd like it if people could disagree without questioning someones basketball knowledge, state their opinions not in a factual manner, and be willing to point out the negatives or failures on the side they are defending.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

> he's 7'0, 300lbs... if he's on stilts and with a really big backpack on. Legitamate measurements are what you measure barefoot. In the real world he's on the short, light, and slow end of the spectrum compared to other NBA 3's... with or without shoes or backpacks. When you say he's a legit 6'8 and he turns out to actually be a legit 6'6.5, and then retreat to this sort of stuff is exactly why I don't take your relayed Calhoun quote at face value.


what does backpacks or stilts have to do with anything?....Players don't play with backpacks or stilts, players do play with shoes, making what they measure in shoes the measurement that actually matters...



> yeah the opinion of some guy I've never heard proves everything. remind me why the league wastes their time weighing, measuring, and working out these guys? It seems they could cut to the heart of the matter and save themselves some time and money by just asking you whats what


It doesn't matter if you've heard of him or not (even though I know you have) he states nothing but facts in this article 

Be sure to read it.



> do you really think that the mock drafts from those websites mean a bleep thing at this point? Apparently you haven't noticed me repeatedly labeling this draft as lacking star talent in general, or that nbadraft.net dramatically flip flops it's player ratings every week/every year about this time... it's just speculations/guesses from a website that wants a piece of the consumer pie and is trying to get it by pushing NBA fan's collective buttons. Thats how those guys make their living. In past years their day of guesses have held some water, but those are a ways away.


They know infinitely more than you do about the draft thats for sure.

This just goes to show your bias towards anything anti-Morrison...You neglect to admit that even though the most reputable website regarding the draft has him going #1.....They must not know what they're talking about...

Your game is old.


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## Oil Can (May 25, 2006)

Hey, Larry Bird supposedly is dying for Adam Morrison. Willing to part with Jermaine O'Neal for him even.

HOF'er Rick Barry has a show in the Bay Area and he recently state that Morrison was bascially " a better version of me". Pretty strong accolades from someone that could stroke the ball and is a knwon egomaniac of the nth degree. 

If PDX is lucky enough to ge Morrison..I will be so excited!


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

Oil Can said:


> Hey, Larry Bird supposedly is dying for Adam Morrison. Willing to part with Jermaine O'Neal for him even.


Yeah. Sure.

Ed O.


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## It's_GO_Time (Oct 13, 2005)

Oil Can said:


> If PDX is lucky enough to ge Morrison..I will be so excited!


 I don't know about the rest of the board, but if Ptd drafts Morrison, I want proof of the season tickets you have promised the whole city you would buy.

Hey, did you know they posted your comment in the Oregonian about Morriosn. After reading it I knew it there could only be one person who wrote that . . . among other things "if they don't draft Morrison it will be a PR nightmare" gave it away. :biggrin: 

The question is who wrote the comment dissing Morrison?


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## Oil Can (May 25, 2006)

Kiss_My_Darius said:


> I don't know about the rest of the board, but if Ptd drafts Morrison, I want proof of the season tickets you have promised the whole city you would buy.
> 
> Hey, did you know they posted your comment in the Oregonian about Morriosn. After reading it I knew it there could only be one person who wrote that . . . among other things "if they don't draft Morrison it will be a PR nightmare" gave it away. :biggrin:
> 
> The question is who wrote the comment dissing Morrison?


Yes that was me. No one dissed him. I sent a a note to Canzano and he submitted it to letters to the editor. 

As for season tickets. Why do I have to offer you proof of anything? I don't know you from a can of tuna :biggrin: 

I have never said I would buy season tickets. 
I have stated: 

-Drafting Morrison will increase attendance by 2000 a game
-I will buy a ticket *PACKAGE*
-Drafting him "brings me back into the fold" -that dos not mean season tickets

I sent a letter to both Patterson and Pritchard stating that as well. Hey, some of my money is better than none of it. As is all of my support vs. none of it. 

Look, I am just a software guy. Not weatlhy by any means. My disposable income goes in 10 different directions as is. I do Triathlons all summer. I marathon all winter. I golf year round. I own a home. I am in graduate school, I have 2 dogs. It will be difficult enough to buy a partial season ticket package. If you really want me to scan a reciept I will. Oh yeah, I have to go to a handful of Zags games too. 

I am the casual fan that Morrison brings BACK. You times me times a few hundred and RIP CITY is starting to go again. 

By the way, why is there this "me and the rest of the board" mentality? Aren't we all Blazer fans? Very confusing. Maybe I am just misinterpreting things? 

If you were pimping a guy, I would respect that. I might throw a playful barb, but certainly would respect any of your opinions. I have stated umpteen times I am biased...


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## It's_GO_Time (Oct 13, 2005)

Oil Can said:


> Yes that was me. No one dissed him. I sent a a note to Canzano and he submitted it to letters to the editor.
> 
> As for season tickets. Why do I have to offer you proof of anything? I don't know you from a can of tuna :biggrin:
> 
> ...


This was suppose to be a "barb." I was just playing with you. Obviously I don't memorize your posts or I wouldn't have wanted proof to season tickets. I just got a kick with you saying you would be "excited" if they draft Morrison (stating the obvious) and thought I would have fun with it.

I agree and disagree about Morrison bringing back the casual fan. If Morrison is successful, NW fans would probably relate more with him v. other players. But if he doesn't produce, fans will not follow just because he has long hair and a stache.

The dissing I was talking about was another letter to the editor saying Morrison would not be successful at the NBA level.

Danm you have a lot of bills. Lucky all you software guys are Bill Gates wealthy. My suggestion is cancel one of your golf memberships (like to the Waverly Club) and put that money into season seats no matter who they draft. :biggrin:


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

Oil Can said:


> HOF'er Rick Barry has a show in the Bay Area and he recently state that Morrison was bascially " a better version of me". Pretty strong accolades from someone that could stroke the ball and is a knwon egomaniac of the nth degree.


huh... I live in SF and listen to Rick's show most every day. I can't say I've heard him say anything approaching what you're relaying. How did you come across that quote?

STOMP


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

zagsfan20 said:


> what does backpacks or stilts have to do with anything?....Players don't play with backpacks or stilts, players do play with shoes, making what they measure in shoes the measurement that actually matters...


*legit* is what you weigh and measure barefoot and dripping wet... measuring with shoes/stilts on is not a legitamate measurement. No matter how you slice it, 6'6.5 198lbs is short and very light compared to other starting NBA 3s. I could compile a list of heights and weights of NBA 3s if you like. Combine that with bottom end athletisism...



> They (nbadraft.net) know infinitely more than you do about the draft thats for sure.


lots of people know more then me, is that your point? Next week when Adam is no longer rated #1 by them (like I'm predicting), feel free to blame me. That would fit right in with the rest of your logic.



> This just goes to show your bias towards anything anti-Morrison...You neglect to admit that even though the most reputable website regarding the draft has him going #1.....They must not know what they're talking about...
> 
> Your game is old.


Oh yours is so fresh! Day after day of your Morrison crap on the Blazer board for the last 2 years, that never gets old. The way you refuse to respectfully agree to disagree... everyone appreciates that. 

My bias towards any player is based 100% in what I feel he'll bring to my favorite pro club. AM's noted holes are the sole reason why I don't think he'll be selected before #4 and why I think the Blazers will also pass on him. Maybe I'm right, maybe I'll turn out to be wrong, we shall see... but so what? Lighten up Francis, we're just talking hoops here.

STOMP


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

> legit is what you weigh and measure barefoot and dripping wet... measuring with shoes/stilts on is not a legitamate measurement. No matter how you slice it, 6'6.5 198lbs is short and very light compared to other starting NBA 3s. I could compile a list of heights and weights of NBA 3s if you like. Combine that with bottom end athletisism..


Can you give me their accurate heights of each of their pre-draft measurements? Players don't list themselves at what they actually measure. Just ask Tayshaun Prince who is listed at 215 or the many other fabricated listings.



> lots of people know more then me, is that your point? Next week when Adam is no longer rated #1 by them (like I'm predicting), feel free to blame me. That would fit right in with the rest of your logic.


We'll wait and see where he lands, but for you to act like he isn't that good of a prospect and that those guys just pull things out of their arse is ridiculous.



> Oh yours is so fresh! Day after day of your Morrison crap on the Blazer board for the last 2 years, that never gets old. The way you refuse to respectfully agree to disagree... everyone appreciates that.





> My bias towards any player is based 100% in what I feel he'll bring to my favorite pro club. AM's noted holes are the sole reason why I don't think he'll be selected before #4 and why I think the Blazers will also pass on him. Maybe I'm right, maybe I'll turn out to be wrong, we shall see... but so what? Lighten up Francis, we're just talking hoops here.


I've been talking hoops here for a long while, the way you come off to me in posts as know-it-all and act as if my sole purpose is to start wars over whether Morrison is good enough for the NBA or not.

I have over 5,000 posts here and have started posting about the Blazers long before my "Morrison crusade"...I'm just flabergasted when people think that my arguing Morrison's ability to play at the NBA level is me denying every little slight of him just to promote him. I feel that he will be an unstoppable offensive force on the NBA level and think he has the one of a kind tenacity and drive that is too hard for us to pass up. I also think people are dwelling too much on the defensive end, when he's about to play in a league that is far from defensive oriented. I guess I just don't understand why people have so much of a problem with me sticking up for my guy.


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## Kmurph (May 7, 2003)

> AM's noted holes are the sole reason why I don't think he'll be selected before #4 and why I think the Blazers will also pass on him.


Pass on him for who?

Brandon Roy? Whose game has as many question marks as Morrison's does.....and who couldn't stop Morrison when he he had to guard him defensively?

Or Aldridge, who couldn't bench 8 reps, or shake his well deserved "softie" label or tendency to dissapear in big games?

Or the enigmatic undersized pogo stick Tyrus Thomas, or "Mr Consistency" Rudy Gay?

They all have question marks...I haven't seen anything about Morrison that would make him less of a prospect than any of the other possible top picks...and he is one of the few who actually has performed exceptionally in college....

Measureables are nice...and they tell part of the story...but it is what a player does with them that seperates them from the pack....I think Morrison has done plenty to show he is a worthy top prospect and that he has every bit of potential as the rest of the top picks.....


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

Kmurph said:


> They all have question marks....


yup, they all do. I don't project any as stars, but I see AM as having at least as many question marks as any of the top 6 and a lower ceiling then Gay, Aldridge, and (from what I hear/hope) Bargnani. I see Thomas, AM, and Roy on the next tier. IMO Adam will need to have a near ideal situation for him to be a part of a successful team in the league, and Portland is anything but that. I think he needs to be surrounded by defensive players and to be the featured player on the other end. If Joel leaves, Portland will have zero going on the defensive end and a whole lot of guys who want to shoot. Thats a bad chemistry mix. That Webster brings basically the same size and game to the table does not help Adam's cause to be a Blazer either.

I know you disagree with all of this... but whatever, thats just how I see things

STOMP


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## Kmurph (May 7, 2003)

Fair enough....

However, I look at all the payers in this draft and I see Morrison as the only player capable of being a go-to guy and a consistent offensive threat...the type of player defenses have to constantly prepare for....

and IMO...POR needs such a player in the worst of ways...Yes, the team needs defensive help and yes if Pryz leaves it could be even uglier....but I think finding a go-to offensive player is much harder than finding defesive pieces to place around such a player...Adam proved he could score in a myriad of ways against some of the most athletic defenders in college...he often was double\triple teamed...I don't see that ability suddenly dissapearing in the NBA...He will be a good possibly very good pro player IMO....

That is part of the reason why I would like to see POR draft him over any other player...

Rudy Gay & Andrea Bargnani would be next

Aldridge looks like a specimen and seems like a real good kid...but his lack of tenacity worries me...Roy should be a pretty decent NBA player...I am just not convinced he will be anything more than that...


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## Oil Can (May 25, 2006)

STOMP said:


> huh... I live in SF and listen to Rick's show most every day. I can't say I've heard him say anything approaching what you're relaying. How did you come across that quote?
> 
> STOMP



My friend in Grass Valley called me right after he heard it.


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## Oil Can (May 25, 2006)

Kiss_My_Darius said:


> My suggestion is cancel one of your golf memberships (like to the Waverly Club) and put that money into season seats no matter who they draft. :biggrin:



I wish. I am more of a twilight rates kind fo guy. I try to golf twice a week. I go to hacker courses like Rose City and Glendoveer a lot. Once in awhile I will splurge and go to The Reserve.


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

Oil Can said:


> My friend in Grass Valley called me right after he heard it.


heres a link to his radio show where there is an email link. http://www.knbr.com/rickBarry/index.html

I've emailed him before and he's pretty good at responding. I'd certainly be willing to email him myself, but I think some would question what I'd relay. If you've got a spare moment to ask him about that quote, I would be interested in what he has to say. btw, you can also get a streaming feed of his noon to 3 show through that same link.

Regardless of whether you do email him or not, I extend you a belated welcome to our little chatsite 

STOMP


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## Oil Can (May 25, 2006)

STOMP said:


> heres a link to his radio show where there is an email link. http://www.knbr.com/rickBarry/index.html
> 
> I've emailed him before and he's pretty good at responding.
> Regardless of whether you do email him or not, I extend you a belated welcome to our little chatsite
> ...


Yes I will email him. I cannot do it today though. I am sitting in the Marylhurst Library writing a paper. Thank you for the welcome!


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Morrison's workout 

This might be why he's weighing in at 198.


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## Blazer Maven (Sep 27, 2005)

zagsfan20 said:


> Can you give me their accurate heights of each of their pre-draft measurements? Players don't list themselves at what they actually measure. Just ask Tayshaun Prince who is listed at 215 or the many other fabricated listings.
> 
> I feel that he will be an unstoppable offensive force on the NBA level and think he has the one of a kind tenacity and drive that is too hard for us to pass up. I also think people are dwelling too much on the defensive end, when he's about to play in a league that is far from defensive oriented. I guess I just don't understand why people have so much of a problem with me sticking up for my guy.


Adam is a a great offensive player, but he is far from "an unstoppable force". He lacks the quickness and athleticism of a Dwayne Wade/Lebron/Kobe/Pierce/Vince who are the only unstoppable forces in the league today.

Adam will be a fine scorer, but he will have problems with defense and rebounding. I think Adam develops into a more intense version of Peja/Kiki, which is fine company. If he becomes a Blazer, the need for an athletic defender at the 4 will become paramount.

Adam will be an upgrade over Darius at the 3, and could work very well with Khryapa at the 4 when the Blazers go small. We just need to be realistic about Adam's strengths and potential.


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