# T-Mac's supporting cast



## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

Magic fans said that this was the best supporting cast T-Mac ever had and this was the best Magic team since T-Mac came. And that the Magic were gonna be a top 4 team in the east, AT LEAST.

And now that the Magic are 1-9 suddenly T-Mac's supporting cast is awful, and a team like Toronto, who supposedly had a worse supporting cast in the offseason, now has a better supporting cast.

I know only a few posters are like this, and this is only to those few posters... but don't go around saying that T-Mac needs a better supporting cast because it was YOU guys who said that the Magic were a great team and it was YOU guys who flamed and bashed anyone who said otherwise.


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## BallBiologist (Mar 29, 2003)

Little did we know Juwan would be inconsistant. We looked at him as though he would score his 20 a night. He's getting better at that now. He just needs to get important rebounds.

And ty lue? I thought it would be an upgrade from armstrong even though we shoul dhave kept armstrong..he kept the team going when down


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

I said Juwan wouldn't score 20 points a night and I got flamed... oh wellz... :sigh:


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Budweiser_Boy</b>!
> Magic fans said that this was the best supporting cast T-Mac ever had and this was the best Magic team since T-Mac came. And that the Magic were gonna be a top 4 team in the east, AT LEAST.
> 
> And now that the Magic are 1-9 suddenly T-Mac's supporting cast is awful, and a team like Toronto, who supposedly had a worse supporting cast in the offseason, now has a better supporting cast.
> ...


On paper, the team definitely looked greatly improved. Obviously, things have not worked out. Orlando is not as bad as their 1-9 record suggests, but right now, they are experiencing a snowball effect.

I believe the only game they really didnt have a shot at winning was the Minnesota game, and some of the others they had leads as late as the third quarter.

I was optimistic at the beginning of the season, but as I stated many times, I was cautiously optimistic. 4 rookies on the roster and getting PT, two main players in only their second years, new career backup as starting PG, youngest team in franchise history, somewhere around 4th youngest team in NBA ... I knew there could be problems.

And no one would have expected Juwan Howard to play as poorly as he has early on, nor Tmac the first 6 or 7 games.


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## BallBiologist (Mar 29, 2003)

yeah but we dont' have giricek back yet.. hope giricek can make some sort of difference..


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## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

Injuries have played a big role as well as the players their team signed and drafted this off-season. Garrity and Giricek were big contributors last season and they are out. Shooters help to beat zones and you better believe Garrity and Giricek would help out with that. Also Orlando didn't pick talent that went well with their team. Howard cannot play center and Lue can't create. After staying till his senior year I thought Reece Gaines would make a better impact, but he hasn't showed up so far.


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## NugzFan (Jul 26, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>courtside</b>!
> Little did we know Juwan would be inconsistant. We looked at him as though he would score his 20 a night. He's getting better at that now. He just needs to get important rebounds.
> 
> And ty lue? I thought it would be an upgrade from armstrong even though we shoul dhave kept armstrong..he kept the team going when down


you expected 20 a night from juwan?


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## MJG (Jun 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>NugzFan</b>!
> 
> 
> you expected 20 a night from juwan?


I'll second this -- I really hope people weren't expecting 20 PPG from him. He didn't even put that up as the only option in Denver last season. I figured he'd give them 16 a game at best, 12 at worst.


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## BallBiologist (Mar 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>NugzFan</b>!
> 
> 
> you expected 20 a night from juwan?


Yeah I did.. because he has no excuse to miss wide open shots.. especially when tmac is being double teamed.. so therefore juwan would just get easy shots... and if he started making the shots..it would take off pressure from tmac


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## bballlife (Oct 5, 2003)

Yes Howard does suck, as I have always said, but lets not forget that he is not 100% right now. His shooting wrist is all messed up right now.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>bballlife</b>!
> Yes Howard does suck, as I have always said, but lets not forget that he is not 100% right now. His shooting wrist is all messed up right now.


Howard has had a very productive career so far. I would argue against you saying he "sucks"


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## bballlife (Oct 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Dee Bo</b>!
> 
> 
> Howard has had a very productive career so far. I would argue against you saying he "sucks"



If productive you mean his career averages of 18 points and 7 boards. Ya thats not bad, but figure in he has only been to the playoffs twice, and is now in his 10th season. Don’t forget up until this season he was Team Captain on the ALL-NBA Overpaid team. One of the most overpaid players in league history. The Magic are now giving him more than 6 million a year, thats a huge paycut for him, but still too much. This guy is allergic to winning.

That qualifies for sucky in my book.

PS- He can't guard a chair.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>bballlife</b>!
> 
> If productive you mean his career averages of 18 points and 7 boards. Ya thats not bad, but figure in he has only been to the playoffs twice, and is now in his 10th season. Don’t forget up until this season he was Team Captain on the ALL-NBA Overpaid team. One of the most overpaid players in league history. The Magic are now giving him more than 6 million a year, thats a huge paycut for him, but still too much. This guy is allergic to winning.
> 
> ...


It isnt Juwan's fault he signed that huge contract. What was he supposed to say, "Nah, I dont need that much." Sure he was overpaid, but he has been productive. 18 and 7 are pretty good career averages. 

Being to the playoffs only twice has less to do with Juwan himself and more to do with the teams he has been on. 

More than 6 million a year? I dont think so. I dont think Orlando had that much money available. Maybe around 5 million a year. Comparatively, there are a hell of a lot worse contracts in the NBA.

Juwan will pick it up. Although I have my doubts about him fitting into this team.


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## Slasher (Jul 11, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Budweiser_Boy</b>!
> Magic fans said that this was the best supporting cast T-Mac ever had and this was the best Magic team since T-Mac came. And that the Magic were gonna be a top 4 team in the east, AT LEAST.
> 
> And now that the Magic are 1-9 suddenly T-Mac's supporting cast is awful, and a team like Toronto, who supposedly had a worse supporting cast in the offseason, now has a better supporting cast.
> ...



Although I do not like Tracy McGrady at all, I think this Magic team _can_ be better. Gordan Giricek is and will prove to be the second scoring threat after T-Mac. Giricek has a very nice three-point shot, and can slash to the backet without a problem. Drew Gooden *has* to be more aggressive inside, and has to set a better scoring presence down under. The Magic will get better, but only as far as the other players take them. Tracy McGrady is not the Magic, and they shouldn't rely on him to win games.


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## bballlife (Oct 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Dee Bo</b>!
> 
> 
> It isnt Juwan's fault he signed that huge contract. What was he supposed to say, "Nah, I dont need that much." Sure he was overpaid, but he has been productive. 18 and 7 are pretty good career averages.
> ...




Pretty sure he signed for 5 years around 30 Mil.


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## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

People have to realize that the Magic r missing 25 pts a night from Garrity and Giricek. And they're the team's best shooters. Who r the Raptors missing? Right, nobody. With t-mac being doubled more then ever this year, nobody has been able to knock the open shots down. Thats really the biggest reason for their complete inability to win close games. They make t-mac give up the ball, and let mediocre shooters like lue, bogans and a bunch of nobody's clank one shot after another.

Another issue is the chemistry. They added 8 new players during the off season. 3 of their 5 starters weren't on the team last year. During a stretch at the beginning of the 4th qtr against the Nuggets, all 5 Magic players on the floor weren't even on the team last year. And it was a CLOSE game. Thats how strange its been.

Players who log on heavy minutes for em' r as inexpirienced as it gets. Gooden/Hunter r in their 2nd years. Lue is under 25. Bogans, Gaines, Pachulia r all rookies. Shammond Williams is in his 2nd year. Plus he's gonna miss a week with an injury. Howard and T-mac r the only players with 5+ years of nba experience. But who knew Howard was gonna play like as if he has never touched a basketball?

Magic also miss Darell more then they thought.

Now lets see if the Raptors suffer from any of the Magic prolems.

Injuries: NO.

Chemistry issues/too man offseason transactions: NO. Pretty much the same team as last year.

Experience/Too much youth: NOPE. Team is filled with battle tested veterans. The only young player who they actually count on a little is Bosh, but he's a stud.

Unlike the Magic, Raptors also have been a little lucky. 4 of their 5 wins have come in the very final seconds. They have a veteran squad that can flat out D up and knows what to do to win. Magic on the other hand play "foul defense".....little bit of penetration and their young big men will foul u. Anybody who saw the Nuggets-Magic must have seen how unprepared their young guns really r when it matters most.

On paper(when healthy), this Magic team is still better then last years'. But right now, they have injury problems, chemistry issues, youngster who aren't ready to log heavy minutes and a superstar whose more alone then ever. Have they underachieved? No doubt. Did fans overrated what they had? Probably, yeah. Thats what fans do. 

Could t-mac carry that raptor squad to an above .500 record? U bet!


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## JazzMan (Feb 26, 2003)

When (not if) they get their chemistry issues sorted out (and probably when they get a new head coach, no disrespect to Doc) the Magic will recover sufficiently to be in the game when the playoffs roll around. THey must start winning soon though, or it'll be too late by christmas.


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## shazha (Nov 20, 2002)

Tmac has no excuses, this team should be better than it is. The magic have the same problem as miami, that is, too many people at one position. As the heat are packed out with swing men, the magic have to many sf/pf's. 

All of whom, dont really fit either position, they are kind of hybrid forwards. Gooden, Howard, Garity, they can do a bit of everything on the floor. But they have too many of this type of player.

Bench Tryonne Lue and get a real point guard. They should trade for a decent point guard. Gooden and Steven hunter can board for the magic. Howard can hold the PF spot. Garity or Gordan are great shooters. 

They can afford to trade one of either, garity, gg, or gooden. Package him for someone like Larry hugues. Hughes can hold the point spot to a certain degree, but more importantly is a great wing defender and will keep macgrady energised and out of foul trouble. 

I think the wizards will jump on a gooden and garity, for Hughes dixon and kwame. 

Just gotta figure out the salaries to see if it works.


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## Critic (Jun 19, 2003)

Man...your from a great city...like myself! haha.

But Larry Hughes!!!!???

Cmon...Larry Hughes would not be the answer to absolutely ANYTHING!

If they are going to trade for a point guard...at least get a REAL point guard...not one of these converted swingmen who almost always never amount to anything....ESPECIALLY at the point!

If your going to trade for a point guard...get exactly that!!! Bobby Jackson at Sacramento...or Troy Hudson at Minesota would be two guys who could be gettable.

I agree with one of the earlier posters...why the hell did they get rid of Darrell??? Its sure over my head!


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## shazha (Nov 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Critic</b>!
> Man...your from a great city...like myself! haha.
> 
> But Larry Hughes!!!!???
> ...


yup yup, they should have kept darrel. There arent many true point guards that teams would be "willng" to trade. 

True points are rare and teams would rather keep their points. Sac town wont trade B-Jax, hes doin alot for them atm. 
As for Hudson, i think that would be great, but considering *he left orlando* for the Twolves last season, or wasnt resigned by orlando, i dont think he'll be too eagar to go back to the magic.

The reason i said larry hughes is because of the above, and also, because Larry can guard 2 guards and smaller pg's. The guy is a versitile defender, and that can take alot of the shoulders of macgrady, in terms of fatigue and foul trouble. 

I had a look at the rest of the league, and there arent many teams that would be able to trade their point guard and have someone able to run the point.

I think luke ridnor would be available if Seattle choose to play Ronald Murry over Ridnor when Allen comes back. They'd keep Barry at PG and have Murry come off the bench as PG. Or vice versa. Dunno Just guessin.

Im stickin with the Hughes trade. Go for him Orlando!!


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## IV (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Dee Bo</b>!
> 
> 
> Howard has had a very productive career so far. I would argue against you saying he "sucks"


It's true. Juwan does not suck, but he is far from the guy some Magic fans anticipated he would be this season. He's only had one very good season and that was the year before his contract expired, meaning he got paid. He's servicable, but his game will never be what it once was. Juwan is not the answer for Orlando. Had they picked up Jamal Magloire, he would have been better for the club. They need tough rebounding and a presence defensively. Either that or a true point guard to help take the load off Tmac, so he can get free in the offense without having to be the offense.


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## shobe42 (Jun 21, 2002)

*Re: Re: T-Mac's supporting cast*



> Originally posted by <b>Dee Bo</b>!
> 
> 
> On paper, the team definitely looked greatly improved. Obviously, things have not worked out. Orlando is not as bad as their 1-9 record suggests, but right now, they are experiencing a snowball effect.


ok when laker fans were sayin that last yr durin the 3-9 start u were all o well the fact is kobe cant lead a team. the same goes to courtside.

i dont mean to start out a kobe-tmac war but i need to call acontradicton when i see one


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## c_dog (Sep 15, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: T-Mac's supporting cast*



> Originally posted by <b>shobe42</b>!
> 
> 
> ok when laker fans were sayin that last yr durin the 3-9 start u were all o well the fact is kobe cant lead a team. the same goes to courtside.
> ...


Well, to be fair, T-Mac has done it for the past 3 seasons, so yes, he can lead a team(geez, saying he can't lead a team just because of a 10 game losing streak while he's carried the team by himself the last 3 season, is ludicrous). He's probably just a little tired. After 3 seasons of carrying a team, then playing in the US basketball team this summer... it's probably wearing him down. T-Mac was nearly perfect the last couple seasons, it was only a matter of time he started struggling. looks like he's finding himself again though.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>IV</b>!
> 
> 
> It's true. Juwan does not suck, but he is far from the guy some Magic fans anticipated he would be this season. He's only had one very good season and that was the year before his contract expired, meaning he got paid. He's servicable, but his game will never be what it once was. Juwan is not the answer for Orlando. Had they picked up Jamal Magloire, he would have been better for the club. They need tough rebounding and a presence defensively. Either that or a true point guard to help take the load off Tmac, so he can get free in the offense without having to be the offense.


I agree. I thought Howard would be able to handle playing C on an Eastern Conference team, but that failed miserably. And Drew Gooden at SF does not work either. So now he is a signed player that is kind of out of place.

I have never seen him play a whole lot. I thought he was more athletic than he actually is. He didnt look to be in good shape to start the season, so maybe that is a reason, but he can't handle playing at C because he cant rebound because his athleticism just plain stinks .. I knew he wasnt a great athlete, but I thought he was better than he is.


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## shazha (Nov 20, 2002)

what i dont get, is why dont the magic use gooden at Center?? The guy is just such a dominating rebounder when he stays in the paint.

Put howard at PF or SF. But gooden needs to stay inside.


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

i don't even think Juwan scored 20 ppg in DEN, where he was the first option


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>shazha</b>!
> what i dont get, is why dont the magic use gooden at Center?? The guy is just such a dominating rebounder when he stays in the paint.
> 
> Put howard at PF or SF. But gooden needs to stay inside.


I just dont think he is big enough at this point to play center.


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## Fromthasouth (Nov 19, 2003)

The one thing i have realized after watchin the first half of this game, is reece gaines is complete garbage, I think sasser was better than him. Also the orlando magic play no defense AT ALL no one on the court does. They are making zarko and Jake Voskhul look like all pros.


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## Fromthasouth (Nov 19, 2003)

WOW it is getting worst, Every single play the suns are getting wide open shots and layups, The magic are putting out zero effort in the defensive end, its a freakin lay up line, no wonder theyve lost 10 in a row! Jerry west knew something when he got rid of Drew Gooden, The kid is a spot up shooter who doesnt offensive rebound and doesnt bang at all downlow..! I thought Donnell Harvey would help out a little I guess not?


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Fromthasouth</b>!
> The one thing i have realized after watchin the first half of this game, is reece gaines is complete garbage, I think sasser was better than him. Also the orlando magic play no defense AT ALL no one on the court does. They are making zarko and Jake Voskhul look like all pros.


That is what happens when you've got no big body down low. Hunter blocks an occasional shot, but doesnt do much else. Their defense wouldn't look nearly as bad with a big man down low.


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## Fromthasouth (Nov 19, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Dee Bo</b>!
> 
> 
> That is what happens when you've got no big body down low. Hunter blocks an occasional shot, but doesnt do much else. Their defense wouldn't look nearly as bad with a big man down low.


SO maybe instead of drafting tweeners and guys who cant shoot (gaines, sasser,bogans) Why dont they pick up a big guy who plays a little defense?? Maybe if yall keep on at this pace, The magic could pick up Okafor :grinning:


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Fromthasouth</b>!
> 
> SO maybe instead of drafting tweeners and guys who cant shoot (gaines, sasser,bogans) Why dont they pick up a big guy who plays a little defense?? Maybe if yall keep on at this pace, The magic could pick up Okafor :grinning:


Trust me, Magic fans have been questioning a lot of draft choices the last couple years.


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## Fromthasouth (Nov 19, 2003)

I think they need to clean house, They need to bring in a real pg and move Lue to the bench. They need to get rid of Gooden and bring in someone with toughness. If they dont bring in some real players, then Tracy is gone in 05!


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## Mulk (Jun 25, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Fromthasouth</b>!
> I think they need to clean house, They need to bring in a real pg and move Lue to the bench. They need to get rid of Gooden and bring in someone with toughness. If they dont bring in some real players, then Tracy is gone in 05!


They "clean house" every year. It doesn't ever work because they can never bring in any stars as they're over the cap, they can never make any big trades so they have to rely on the draft and bringing in players who have underachieved or have some potential, unfortunately there is usually a reason why these players have all underperformed.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Fromthasouth</b>!
> I think they need to clean house, They need to bring in a real pg and move Lue to the bench. They need to get rid of Gooden and bring in someone with toughness. If they dont bring in some real players, then Tracy is gone in 05!


Maybe this year will be a blessing in disguise. If the Magic are way out of the playoffs later this year, then there will be no reason for Grant Hill to attempt his last comeback this season like he wants to. So maybe if Hill does rest the ankle long enough, maybe he could return next season. 

Plus, if they finish low enough, they give themselves a shot at the top of the draft for Emeka Okafor, Dwight Howard, or Pavel ... so if they can get one of those guys, possibly Hill coming back, and use Gooden or Howard plus change this summer to get a real starting PG ... who knows.

Trying to find the positive ... gotta do something though, because if I were Tmac, I wouldnt want to stay the way things are now.


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## shazha (Nov 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Dee Bo</b>!
> 
> 
> Maybe this year will be a blessing in disguise. If the Magic are way out of the playoffs later this year, then there will be no reason for Grant Hill to attempt his last comeback this season like he wants to. So maybe if Hill does rest the ankle long enough, maybe he could return next season.
> ...


I havent watched the magic this year but........

wow, u know things are getting bad when fans are looking forward to "next year".


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