# Carter trade noise gets louder...



## charlz (Jun 9, 2003)

The Chicago Tribune writes...



> "Carter is pushing for the Raptors to hire Julius Erving as general manager. If Dr. J isn't even considered, the team fears it could lead to poor relations with Carter and perhaps a trade. "I've had some discussions with people outside the organization, which really were private discussions," Erving said. "Based on those conversations, I'm anticipating a call from the Raptors might come, or at least I would welcome one if it did come.


full story here... 

...it is going to happen people - if the big man trade is there VC is gone.


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## shazha (Nov 20, 2002)

yeh but for what big man? Theres just not any out there that a team would trade. and if they would they arent worth carter. draft picks would have to be included.

Also i dont see why they shouldnt trade carter to solidify their back court. I'll say it again, if they are going to trade torronos most loved basketball player, then they should aquire another national icon in return, ic steve nash.

im sure dallas would deal nash and say finley for carter and fillers or a pick.

maybe they should work on gettin magloire too rather than drafting young. All team canada :d


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

There is no big man. You never trade a star big for star small. If Vince goes for a decent big it will be the biggest mistake MLSE ever made. They will be worse than the Bobcats if it happens. There will be no one to create for others. At least now VC creates for others, they just can't finish. 

I have been one of the biggest if not the biggest proponent of Trading VC because I believe his value is strong enough to get a solid package deal in return. If they went one-up for some mediocre FCUK (French Connection United Kingdom), I'm done.


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## charlz (Jun 9, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>blowuptheraptors</b>!
> There is no big man. You never trade a star big for star small. If Vince goes for a decent big it will be the biggest mistake MLSE ever made. They will be worse than the Bobcats if it happens. There will be no one to create for others. At least now VC creates for others, they just can't finish.


this whole drivel about Carter creating for others is just that o over rated it is pathetic.

Let's not forget the longest winning streak in franchise history (9 games) came at the end of the 2002 season when vince was injured

The won those games with:
Childs - former CBA player out of shape under achiver
Davis - had to play in europe for a while just to get in to the NBA
Keon Clark - under achieving pot smoker
Mo Pete - inconsistant 21st over all draft pick with out a contract

<b>these were not stars who could create OMG how could they win?</b>

Why because they played disciplined ball & defender their post - something that is hard to come by when Vince is the on floor captain.

Vince is good, but not that good. People get over it.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

But charlz that team of then is not the same team as of now. What happened to this team when Carter was out, you know that answer. Don't forget the fact that not too many basketball players are excited to come play in toronto, you have a star player willing to play for you all and you quibble about getting him out.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

http://www.uncg.edu/eco/rosenbaum/NBA/stats1.htm

Read and learn.


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## madman (Oct 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hbwoy</b>!
> But charlz that team of then is not the same team as of now. What happened to this team when Carter was out, you know that answer. Don't forget the fact that not too many basketball players are excited to come play in toronto, you have a star player willing to play for you all and you quibble about getting him out.


:yes: 

yes that team won 9 in a row without Carter, however what was there record without VC before that happened?? Was it like 17 losses, 9-17 with out Vince that year, extremly impressive , add worse players, a rook and no front court...this is supposed to be better how???


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## KG_And1 (Feb 19, 2003)

How 'bout Wally Szczerbiak, Michael Olowakandi, and Troy Hudson for Carter and a 2nd round/your 12th man on your bench?

Carter would give us that slasher we've always wanted...he does slash still, does he? Sprewell hasn't been slashing as much as we've wanted.

Wally is a great shooter and underrated defender. His defense has really stepped up this season, people who have watched him play this season can say the same thing. Wally may very well be the next Peja Stojakovic.  I would want to keep Wally but there just aren't any shots for him, Kandi, and Troy, so why not ship them all out?  

Kandi will play East Coast ball for the first time and he will become a dominant Center, as he will probably be the only 7 footer on the court while playing. :angel: Kandi has a nice jump hook...too bad it connects only 40% of the time, BUT he is GOOD rebounder and a decent shot blocker. This will also let Bosh play the Power Forward position which will open up his game.

Troy Hudson is streaky but will go for 30 if you're playing against Dallas or the Lakers. Hudson can dish out assists too. He average 5.7 assists last season with a group of guys including Anthony Peeler, Kendall Gill, Rasho Nesterovic, Gary Trent, oh, and that Kevin Garnett guy. Troy brings in energy but he turns the ball over at bad times...though he makes up for it by scoring 24 points in a quarter, just ask the Spurs of last season. :yes: 

The Toronto Raptors would have a deep team with Wally, Troy, and Kandi.

Kandi
Chris Bosh
Donyell Marshall/Wally 
Rose
Troy/Alvin Williams

Bench:

Mo Pete
Wally
Lamond Murray

This would make Toronto deep at the Guard Positions, with Troy, Jalen, Williams, and possibly even Mo Pete and Wally.

Ohhh....I'm getting excited! 

-Dang, now that I think of it...Wally, Troy, and Kandi may be a bit too much... :dead:


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## madman (Oct 20, 2003)

ohh and by the way charlz what does the chigaco tribune know about the raptors?? shouldnt they be doing work about their own mess there?


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## Sánchez AF (Aug 10, 2003)

i think vince is enough to get Magloire


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## Sánchez AF (Aug 10, 2003)

> How 'bout Wally Szczerbiak, Michael Olowakandi, and Troy Hudson for Carter and a 2nd round/your 12th man on your bench?


Not bad we can draft a Andris and use Troy at pg


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## Sánchez AF (Aug 10, 2003)

Raptors Gets:
Q. Richardson (sign & trade)
M. Ely

Clippers Gets:
Vince


Rapz
pg-Ben Gordon
sg-Q.
sf-Rose
pf-Bosh/Donny
c-Ely

Clipps.
pg-D. Harris or Livingston
sg-Vince
sf-Maggete
pf-Brand
c-Kaman/Wilcox


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## KG_And1 (Feb 19, 2003)

Hmm...I just realized that MN would need Moiso and possibly even Roger Mason, which would be the 12th man I was talking about.

Does the proposed trade even work salary cap-wise?


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

Trade does not work. Plus, Troy has an option to be an FA. If I'm the Raps, I would say no thank you from a talent point of view.


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

i don't see anything in the little skippet that indicates VC's relationship with the raps will be in turmoil if Erving isn't surely considered as a GM. 

what i see is some crap, controversy trying to be stirred up, simply adding to the fuel of the raptors' managerial inconsistencies by providing something so blatantly stupid, that it's surprising anyone would actually believe it.

there is no secret that Dr. J is VC's idol as a basketball player, and i'm sure he's put his own recommendations onto it, but VC isn't some spoiled brat who has to have his way all the time. he's done so much for this team (and has even deferred to them too much that we would like him to) for him to act selfishly if the person he wants does not get chosen.

but i know VC will be on the trading block. the past failed seasons indicates this and not by who gets to be chosen as the GM against his wishes.


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## ballocks (May 15, 2003)

it continues to get progressively more absurd. it seems we have some writers/sources/fans who don't choose to acknowledge common sense: we don't have a GM yet. we have an interim GM who has focused his efforts on- not just primary but EXCLUSIVELY- finding a replacement. is he wasting his time fielding calls for vince? 

i don't necessarily have a problem either way as far as it pertains to vince being or not being on the block. it's just that, in my opinion, vince carter hasn't even been mentioned outside of peripheral discussions during job interviews (and when i say _peripheral_, i mean _peripheral_). the guys left in the raps office are having a tough enough time finding the new manager... and coach... and scouting staff. i don't know if i really have to be the one to suggest that even if they _wanted_ to move vince, they couldn't- there's already too much food on the plate.

there are other things to do besides moving the franchise player.

moreover, i think stories like this are utterly predictable- we could have called this story (or something similar) three months ago. there is so much uncertainly left in raptorland, there has been for some time, it is without question the most attractive nba locale in which to stir controversy; there is no one left to prove you wrong. so these extreme, melodramatic, hollywood rumours are just that: fiction. it's not that these writers/sources *need* something to write/talk about- it's that they WANT to (and they don't even know it). it's great entertainment to live (at least part-time) in the fictional, parallel universe of _make-believe_, especially when you convince yourself that you're not doing _precisely_* that*.

it's too bad for jack and richard and vince because FOR THEM, it's not make-believe. dealing with these stories, that sprout such apocalyptic discussions, is probably the worst part of their respective jobs.

look, i don't doubt that julius erving is expecting a call- i just think his expectation is misguided. this guy is participating in the make-believe atmosphere himself, whether he knows it or not- and that partly leads to him implying "vince" in his discussions with unnamed sources... although he doesn't mention carter explicitly. he knows what he's doing.

everyone else mentions vince _for_ him, which leads to articles like these, which leads to threads like these- which then leads to posts like these. for dr j, for the writers at the chicago tribune, for the writers at the toronto star, these are the ideal stories to be covering- there is ample room for prediction, and no one will EVER prove you wrong: you are absolutely protected. it's almost too good to be true- you get to have your cake and eat it too. 

because in four months, after we've hired a new GM, survived the summer off-season period and likely built _around_ vince carter, no one will remember this story. and the writer who started this mess (not to mention his accomplice, erving) will be doing something completely different, engaging in some new fiction...

... without having paid _anything_ for his early-summer lies.

that's the world of neo-journalism, people: acting irresponsibly without acknowledging it. acting irresponsibly out of habit, you can't lose, so you waste no opportunity to take full advantage of your position.

anyone else want to vomit? 

peace


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## Slasher (Jul 11, 2003)

although i admire vince's desire to help the franchise by talking about and pushing toward dr j, i have to say right about now that he is putting his nose too deep into someone else's businsess. this is the job of the management and ownership to find a new gm, and not vince cater. if he does get his panties in a bunch that the raps didn't consider dr j, then he is a wussie whiner and should for sure be traded.


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## charlz (Jun 9, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>madman</b>!
> ohh and by the way charlz what does the chigaco tribune know about the raptors?? shouldnt they be doing work about their own mess there?


they were right about the KO Grunwald rift and a number of other things. 

Regardless of all that - this would never have even made it to the press a year ago - this is how these things start - a leak here a rumor there and then before you know it facts start coming out.



> Originally posted by <b>madman</b>!
> yes that team won 9 in a row without Carter, however what was there record without VC before that happened?? Was it like 17 losses, 9-17 with out Vince that year, extremly impressive , add worse players, a rook and no front court...this is supposed to be better how???


A valid point and one I have thought of often - but my feeling is that it took the team time to find the scoring since Vince took all those shots up until then. 

The Raptors without vince stats are grossly exagerated since there is that adjustment time it takes to get the new scores used to their touches and confident. That does not happen over 5-10 games - it takes more time.


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## KeonBackinTO (May 26, 2003)

without VC raps are worst team in league.

Trading VC for a big does no good, no one on the team can set up people or finish except Vince.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

The reason this flares up the VC trade rumours is because the organisation has always done everything that VC has asked of them. They re-signed the core because VC liked the core. They let VC go to his graduation the day of the game because he wanted to go. They got Dream in part due to VC's wishes. VC is certainly not responsible for these moves, but MLSE and GG were certainly responsible for allowing them. Now when VC makes a recommendation about an executive, they don't even give the recommedation a sniff?? Why? They were interviewing everyone, what's one more to appease your star?


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## Bron_Melo_ROY (Apr 12, 2004)

It think that the raptors should worry about acquiring a C and letting Donyell Marshall go. He performed well for the Raptors this season but he isn't that important. They are going to start Chris Bosh at PF no matter what, next season and will acquire a C anyway so they should just use Donyell Marshall as trade bait.


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## charlz (Jun 9, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Bron_Melo_ROY</b>!
> It think that the raptors should worry about acquiring a C and letting Donyell Marshall go. He performed well for the Raptors this season but he isn't that important. They are going to start Chris Bosh at PF no matter what, next season and will acquire a C anyway so they should just use Donyell Marshall as trade bait.


Yes I think that will happen for sure - donny is very attractive to alot of teams that don't already have a mobile PF with decent speed great shot and a nice touch.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>charlz</b>!
> 
> 
> this whole drivel about Carter creating for others is just that o over rated it is pathetic.
> ...


care to remind us of the teams we beat and their rosters at the time? as memory serves that was the easiest 9-game streak imaginable. this is your "evidence" that VC means relatively little to the success of our team? 

Vince has a massive impact on the court, you should check out his adjusted plus minus.


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## madman (Oct 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Bron_Melo_ROY</b>!
> It think that the raptors should worry about acquiring a C and letting Donyell Marshall go. He performed well for the Raptors this season but he isn't that important. They are going to start Chris Bosh at PF no matter what, next season and will acquire a C anyway so they should just use Donyell Marshall as trade bait.


:yes: i said this a while ago and still think that he has to go he is taking bosh's spot and he cant play C


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## Goku (Aug 28, 2003)

If creating massive space for your teammates somehow stifles their game, or keeps them from playing 'disciplined' or 'defending their position', maybe thats on them. Not Vince.

taking vince off the court won't turn us into a Memphis style group. It will help us secure lottery picks like they did though.

and if anything, Vince doesn't shoot enough. Our scrubs take shots away from Bosh. Not Vince.


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## MrTasty (Jul 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>SkywalkerAC</b>!
> 
> 
> care to remind us of the teams we beat and their rosters at the time? as memory serves that was the easiest 9-game streak imaginable. .


I was gonna say the exact same thing.


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## ballocks (May 15, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>SkywalkerAC</b>!
> care to remind us of the teams we beat and their rosters at the time? as memory serves that was the easiest 9-game streak imaginable. this is your "evidence" that VC means relatively little to the success of our team?
> 
> Vince has a massive impact on the court, you should check out his adjusted plus minus.


agreed, not to mention that we were 0-9 without vince _this_ year (which is most relevant- and not the "proof" of two, three, four seasons ago).

peace


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## KeonBackinTO (May 26, 2003)

> and if anything, Vince doesn't shoot enough. Our scrubs take shots away from Bosh. Not Vince.


Scrubs you are talking about, Jalen Rose.

Everyone seems so high on Jalen and down on Vince. 
Jalen is terrible, he does so many bad things and his contract is really really hurting the team. 

Vince keeps the team together and trading for a big is not the answer at all, unless you get allstar big which just isn't going to happen. Watch VC with a PG or a real big man.


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## madman (Oct 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>KeonBackinTO</b>!
> 
> 
> Scrubs you are talking about, Jalen Rose.
> ...


Jalen did make mistakes with his deicion making, but he should not be making those the PG should, it all ties into the fact that we dont have a good PG, and a natural one, look at all of our teams that had success, yes alvin was our starter but we had Childs coming in and playing well, and then last year we got rafer and look what happened!!! Our biggest problem is the PG


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## open mike (Jan 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>charlz</b>!
> 
> 
> this whole drivel about Carter creating for others is just that o over rated it is pathetic.
> ...


That same team without vince also went on the franchises worst losing streak losing 18 of 19 games in a row.


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## Dathomieyouhate (Jun 21, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>charlz</b>!
> 
> 
> this whole drivel about Carter creating for others is just that o over rated it is pathetic.
> ...


if vince didn't go out with a injury we would have been the top team in the east that's for sure.[/

so that's just a bad point.


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## Ballscientist (Nov 11, 2002)

Carter is yao's friend. 

Trade Francis for Carter.


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## madman (Oct 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Ballscientist</b>!
> Carter is yao's friend.
> 
> Trade Francis for Carter.


what does that have to with anything, according to that logic, trade Rose for jaimison


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## raps_luva (Mar 28, 2004)

The Chicago Tribune knows NOTHING about the Raptors and what they are going to go. The Chicago Tribune is based in Chicago. That whole article is 100% a lie.


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## Mike1155 (Apr 9, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Slasher</b>!
> i have to say right about now that he is putting his nose too deep into someone else's businsess. this is the job of the management and ownership to find a new gm, and not vince cater. if he does get his panties in a bunch that the raps didn't consider dr j, then he is a wussie whiner and should for sure be traded.


Well said Slasher. This pretty much sums up how i feel about this situation.


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## charlz (Jun 9, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Dathomieyouhate</b>!
> 
> 
> if vince didn't go out with a injury we would have been the top team in the east that's for sure.[/
> ...


not only 9 in a row but 12 of 14 that is no fluke.

The Raptors returned from the All-Star break with great optimism, but without their scoring leader. With Carter out of the lineup various players stepped up as Davis recorded a six-game double-double streak, Alvin Williams tied a career-high with 14 assists in a game and Keon Clark had his season highs with 26 points and 15 boards against the Knicks. All of these efforts couldn’t stop the Raptors from suffering through a 13-game losing streak though and it looked as though they were headed for the Draft Lottery. 

Just when everyone around the game counted them out and with Vince shutting it down for the season, the Raptors turned it all around. The team came together and won 12 of its final 14 games, including a franchise-high nine straight victories, to claim its third straight playoff appearance. 

full story


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## Mattsanity (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>charlz</b>!
> 
> 
> this whole drivel about Carter creating for others is just that o over rated it is pathetic.
> ...


Holy crap man. Vince is one of the elite shooting guards in the NBA. Only Tracy and Kobe are exceptionally on a higher level than Vince. He is better than good, he is an elite player. :uhoh: 

If we trade Vince, then we're starting from scratch. Why rebuild, when you can do small, but effective trades excluding Vince?

You completely ignore the fact that the Raptors were suffering last season, which was a bigger factor than Vince not playing in the conclusion of the 2002 season. By the way, you should quit using the 2002 season crap as your support. You refer to the injured Vince of that season, which is idiotic when the current Vince is completely different, while the roster is completely different too. You should consider the present, not the past.


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## charlz (Jun 9, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>SkywalkerAC</b>!
> 
> 
> care to remind us of the teams we beat and their rosters at the time? as memory serves that was the easiest 9-game streak imaginable. this is your "evidence" that VC means relatively little to the success of our team?
> ...


I know what every one is saying - I am not saying vince is not a good player and the most athletic guy on the planet and one of the most talented players ever. 

I am saying that this team can win with out him and especially his idealogy.

True they did play mostly dogs when they won 12 of 14 but this years team with Rose, Marshall, Carter and Bosh should be better - and did not beat the bulls even once with Vince in the line up. Here are most of the box scores from that fatefull year and look at Alvin and Mo Pete's numbers with out Vince there "creating" for him. Pretty good if you ask me.


==============================================
TOR Raptors at CLE Cavaliers 
Boxscores/Lineups(3/22/02 7:40:09 PM)


TORONTO (94)

fg ft rb 
min m-a m-a o-t a pf tp
M Peterson 38 7-18 3-3 3-6 3 1 18
A Davis 36 4-12 6-6 2-8 3 4 14
E Montross 16 0-1 1-4 0-5 0 4 1
A Williams 29 6-8 0-0 0-2 4 3 13
D Curry 18 3-7 0-0 0-0 1 2 6
C Childs 18 3-4 0-0 0-2 3 2 6
H Olajuwon 18 2-6 1-2 1-4 2 3 5
K Clark 25 6-13 0-0 3-10 2 1 12
J Williams 22 6-11 2-4 3-4 1 2 14
J Jackson 17 1-1 1-2 0-2 2 2 3
M Bradley 3 1-1 0-0 0-0 0 0 2
V Carter DNP - ARTHROSCOPIC KNEE S 

_____________________________________________________
TOTALS 240 39-82 14-21 12-43 21 24 94
_____________________________________________________

Percentages: FG-.476, FT-.667. 3-Point Goals:
2-5, .400 (M Peterson 1-3, A Williams 1-1, D 
Curry 0-1). Team Rebounds: 10. Blocked 
Shots:6 (H Olajuwon 3, A Williams 2, K 
Clark). Turnovers:11 (C Childs 4, D Curry 2, 
A Davis 2, K Clark 2, H Olajuwon). Steals: 8 
(A Williams 3, A Davis 2, J Jackson 2, M 
Peterson).


CLEVELAND (80)

fg ft rb 
min m-a m-a o-t a pf tp
L Murray 12 0-4 0-0 0-1 0 4 0
T Hill 21 3-5 1-1 2-6 0 3 7
Z Ilgauskas 16 0-5 3-6 1-4 1 2 3
A Miller 32 3-8 3-4 3-5 10 1 9
W Person 29 7-13 1-2 1-4 1 1 15
R Davis 28 5-15 2-2 0-3 1 0 12
C Mihm 22 1-3 2-4 3-4 1 4 4
B Stith 17 1-4 2-2 1-2 3 2 5
J Jones 24 2-9 0-0 3-9 2 3 5
T Langdon 19 4-9 0-0 1-1 1 0 9
B Skinner 17 5-7 1-3 3-8 0 2 11
M Doleac 3 0-0 0-0 0-1 1 0 0

_____________________________________________________
TOTALS 240 31-82 15-24 18-48 21 22 80
_____________________________________________________

Percentages: FG-.378, FT-.625. 3-Point Goals:
3-9, .333 (L Murray 0-1, B Stith 1-1, J Jones
1-3, T Langdon 1-4). Team Rebounds: 9. 
Blocked Shots:5 (B Skinner 2, W Person, C 
Mihm, Z Ilgauskas). Turnovers:17 (J Jones 4, 
T Hill 3, R Davis 3, L Murray 2, Z Ilgauskas 
2, W Person, C Mihm, A Miller). Steals: 7 (T 
Hill 2, J Jones 2, B Stith, L Murray, A 
Miller).

-------------------------------------------
TORONTO 21 26 32 15 - 94
CLEVELAND 11 21 27 21 - 80

============================================
WAS Wizards at TOR Raptors 
Boxscores/Lineups(3/24/02 8:15:40 PM)


WASHINGTON (91)

fg ft rb 
min m-a m-a o-t a pf tp
R Hamilton 38 8-17 5-5 3-5 1 2 21
C Laettner 27 4-7 2-2 0-6 2 3 10
J White 15 0-1 0-0 2-3 2 1 0
C Alexander 17 2-4 0-0 1-3 2 2 4
C Whitney 31 4-11 2-2 0-1 2 2 13
M Jordan 22 6-17 2-2 0-3 2 4 14
B Haywood 10 2-4 0-0 1-1 0 2 4
T Lue 10 1-4 0-0 0-2 0 1 2
T Nesby 28 6-9 0-0 2-5 2 1 12
P Jones 26 1-4 3-4 1-4 4 1 5
K Brown 16 2-3 2-2 2-6 0 2 6
E Thomas DNP - COACH'S DECISION 

_____________________________________________________
TOTALS 240 36-81 16-17 12-39 17 21 91
_____________________________________________________

Percentages: FG-.444, FT-.941. 3-Point Goals:
3-10, .300 (R Hamilton 0-1, C Whitney 3-6, T 
Lue 0-2, P Jones 0-1). Team Rebounds: 7. 
Blocked Shots:5 (J White 3, C Whitney, K 
Brown). Turnovers:18 (P Jones 4, C Laettner 
3, M Jordan 3, R Hamilton 3, C Whitney, B 
Haywood, J White, C Alexander, T Lue). 
Steals: 13 (P Jones 3, C Whitney 2, C 
Alexander 2, M Jordan 2, C Laettner, J White,
K Brown, R Hamilton).


TORONTO (92)

fg ft rb 
min m-a m-a o-t a pf tp
M Peterson 43 7-18 6-7 2-4 2 2 26
A Davis 42 4-14 9-11 3-9 0 0 17
E Montross 13 3-5 0-0 2-4 0 4 6
D Curry 9 1-1 0-0 0-0 1 0 2
A Williams 40 4-11 1-2 3-7 9 4 9
J Williams 34 5-10 3-4 3-6 3 2 13
H Olajuwon 14 1-4 0-0 1-5 3 0 2
J Jackson 19 3-6 3-4 1-1 3 0 9
K Clark 26 4-8 0-0 1-6 0 4 8
C Childs DNP - PELVIC CONTUSION 
V Carter DNP - SORE LEFT QUADRICEP 
M Bradley DNP - COACH'S DECISION 

_____________________________________________________
TOTALS 240 32-77 22-28 16-42 21 16 92
_____________________________________________________

Percentages: FG-.416, FT-.786. 3-Point Goals:
6-11, .545 (M Peterson 6-10, A Williams 0-1).
Team Rebounds: 9. Blocked Shots:4 (E 
Montross, H Olajuwon, J Williams, M 
Peterson). Turnovers:20 (A Williams 6, H 
Olajuwon 4, J Williams 3, K Clark 2, J 
Jackson 2, D Curry, M Peterson, A Davis). 
Steals: 7 (J Williams 2, A Williams 2, A 
Davis, K Clark, J Jackson).

-------------------------------------------
WASHINGTON 21 18 25 27 - 91
TORONTO 24 23 19 26 - 92
------------------------------------------- 

Technical fouls: None.
Flagrant fouls: None. A: 19,800. T: 2:03.



================================================
MIA Heat at TOR Raptors 
Boxscores/Lineups(3/27/02 8:00:54 PM)


MIAMI (80)

fg  ft rb 
min m-a m-a o-t a pf tp
J Jackson 32 3-8 2-2 2-7 2 1 9
B Grant 40 7-15 1-1 6-10 2 3 15
A Mourning 42 6-12 5-10 7-14 1 3 17
E Jones 38 1-5 0-0 1-5 8 4 2
R Strickland 38 11-17 0-0 1-1 8 1 24
V Stepania 9 1-4 0-3 1-2 0 1 2
L Ellis 18 2-6 1-2 1-4 0 4 7
C Gatling 4 0-2 0-0 0-1 0 1 0
E House 12 2-3 0-0 0-2 1 1 4
K Gill 7 0-2 0-0 0-2 1 0 0
S Marks DNP - COACH'S DECISION 
A Carter DNP - COACH'S DECISION 

_____________________________________________________
TOTALS 240 33-74 9-18 19-48 23 19 80
_____________________________________________________

Percentages: FG-.446, FT-.500. 3-Point Goals:
5-7, .714 (J Jackson 1-3, R Strickland 2-2, L
Ellis 2-2). Team Rebounds: 5. Blocked Shots:7
(A Mourning 4, J Jackson, L Ellis, E Jones). 
Turnovers:19 (A Mourning 6, B Grant 4, J 
Jackson 2, L Ellis 2, R Strickland, K Gill, C
Gatling, E Jones, V Stepania). Steals: 7 (A 
Mourning 2, E Jones 2, R Strickland, B Grant,
J Jackson).


TORONTO (81)

fg ft rb 
min m-a m-a o-t a pf tp
J Williams 43 5-12 8-13 3-10 2 2 18
A Davis 40 8-15 3-3 5-10 1 4 19
E Montross 23 3-4 0-0 0-3 0 2 6
M Peterson 42 8-19 3-4 2-2 5 5 21
A Williams 38 5-12 1-4 1-4 5 2 13
H Olajuwon 8 0-2 0-0 0-0 0 1 0
C Childs 20 0-3 0-0 0-2 6 1 0
K Clark 25 2-8 0-0 1-6 0 2 4
J Jackson 1 0-0 0-0 0-0 0 0 0
D Curry DNP - BULGING DISK LOWER 
V Carter DNP - ARTHROSCOPIC SURGER 
M Bradley DNP - COACH'S DECISION 

_____________________________________________________
TOTALS 240 31-75 15-24 12-37 19 19 81
_____________________________________________________

Percentages: FG-.413, FT-.625. 3-Point Goals:
4-8, .500 (M Peterson 2-4, A Williams 2-3, C 
Childs 0-1). Team Rebounds: 13. Blocked 
Shots:7 (K Clark 3, A Davis 2, J Williams, A 
Williams). Turnovers:15 (A Davis 5, A 
Williams 3, M Peterson 3, K Clark 2, E 
Montross, H Olajuwon). Steals: 11 (J Williams
5, H Olajuwon 2, A Davis 2, A Williams, M 
Peterson).

-------------------------------------------
MIAMI 20 23 18 19 - 80
TORONTO 28 16 16 21 - 81



==============================
TOR Raptors at ATL Hawks 
Boxscores/Lineups(3/28/02 7:19:42 PM)


TORONTO (85)

fg ft rb 
min m-a m-a o-t a pf tp
J Williams 31 5-10 3-8 5-8 2 5 13
A Davis 39 6-16 3-3 2-9 2 3 15
E Montross 17 2-4 0-0 2-7 0 2 4
A Williams 37 5-14 3-5 1-6 4 1 14
M Peterson 40 6-14 2-3 0-2 1 0 15
C Childs 22 2-5 0-0 0-3 7 3 4
K Clark 31 6-9 0-0 1-8 0 4 12
J Jackson 4 0-0 1-2 0-0 0 0 1
H Olajuwon 15 3-5 0-0 0-4 1 3 6
M Bradley 4 0-0 1-2 0-1 0 2 1
D Curry DNP - BULGING DISK LOWER 
V Carter DNP - ORTHOSCOPIC KNEE SU 
D Dial DNP - COACH'S DECISION 

_____________________________________________________
TOTALS 240 35-77 13-23 11-48 17 23 85
_____________________________________________________

Percentages: FG-.455, FT-.565. 3-Point Goals:
2-10, .200 (A Williams 1-3, M Peterson 1-5, C
Childs 0-2). Team Rebounds: 11. Blocked 
Shots:4 (K Clark 2, A Davis, M Bradley). 
Turnovers:15 (A Davis 4, K Clark 4, H 
Olajuwon 3, A Williams 3, J Williams). 
Steals: 4 (C Childs, J Williams, A Williams, 
K Clark).


ATLANTA (83)

fg ft rb 
min m-a m-a o-t a pf tp
D Johnson 17 1-2 0-0 0-4 0 2 2
S Abdur-Rahim 39 10-26 2-4 3-10 5 4 23
N Mohammed 27 4-7 3-6 3-3 0 4 11
J Terry 40 5-18 5-5 0-3 7 2 16
I Newble 36 1-4 3-3 4-11 0 3 5
A Henderson 21 2-3 2-4 0-3 1 1 6
J Vaughn 21 4-8 0-0 0-1 2 2 9
T Kukoc 30 3-10 3-5 0-4 2 3 11
H Mottola 9 0-1 0-0 0-2 0 0 0
M Strickland DNP - COACH'S DECISION 
C Bowdler DNP - COACH'S DECISION 
D Glover DNP - STRESS FRACTURE RIG 
L Smith DNP - COACH'S DECISION 

_____________________________________________________
TOTALS 240 30-79 18-27 10-41 17 21 83
_____________________________________________________

Percentages: FG-.380, FT-.667. 3-Point Goals:
5-17, .294 (D Johnson 0-1, S Abdur-Rahim 1-3,
J Terry 1-7, J Vaughn 1-1, T Kukoc 2-5). Team
Rebounds: 10. Blocked Shots:3 (A Henderson, T
Kukoc, S Abdur-Rahim). Turnovers:12 (J Terry 
3, I Newble 3, S Abdur-Rahim 2, H Mottola 2, 
A Henderson, T Kukoc). Steals: 9 (S 
Abdur-Rahim 2, J Terry 2, D Johnson 2, T 
Kukoc, N Mohammed, H Mottola).

-------------------------------------------
TORONTO 26 21 17 21 - 85
ATLANTA 18 29 23 13 - 83



===========================================================
CHI Bulls at TOR Raptors 
Boxscores/Lineups(4/3/02 7:34:02 PM)



CHICAGO (104)

fg ft rb 
min m-a m-a o-t a pf tp
E Robinson 37 4-8 2-2 0-3 1 2 10
T Chandler 27 4-6 8-8 3-10 1 4 16
E Curry 18 1-2 1-1 0-3 0 5 3
J Rose 34 12-23 5-6 0-1 3 6 30
T Best 25 2-8 2-2 0-3 9 0 6
C Oakley 10 1-2 0-0 1-1 2 1 2
M Fizer 21 5-10 4-10 4-6 2 1 14
J Crawford 23 4-10 0-0 0-1 2 0 9
F Hoiberg 15 2-4 2-2 0-2 2 0 6
N Richardson 10 0-1 0-0 0-0 0 1 0
D Bagaric 20 4-5 0-1 1-4 0 2 8
A Guyton DNP - COACH'S DECISION
T Hassell DND - LOWER BACK SPASMS

_____________________________________________________
TOTALS 240 39-79 24-32 9-34 22 22 104
_____________________________________________________
Percentages: FG-.494, FT-.750. 3-Point Goals: 2-4,
.5(J Rose 1-1, T Best 0-1, J Crawford 1-2). Team
rebounds: 7.Blocked shots: 6 (T Chandler 3, E Curry 2,
E Robinson).Turnovers: 12 (J Rose 6, T Best 2, M Fizer
2, T Chandler, C Oakley).Steals: 4 (E Robinson, T
Chandler, T Best, FHoiberg).


TORONTO (117)

fg ft rb 
min m-a m-a o-t a pf tp
J Williams 33 7-11 2-2 5-10 3 2 16
A Davis 39 10-15 5-7 4-13 4 2 25
E Montross 13 0-2 0-2 0-3 2 4 0
M Peterson 39 9-19 5-6 0-1 2 4 26
A Williams 34 5-11 2-4 1-7 10 1 12
K Clark 25 8-11 2-3 1-4 3 3 18
C Childs 23 5-7 1-1 0-3 5 3 14
J Jackson 8 0-0 0-0 0-0 3 0 0
H Olajuwon 19 2-7 0-0 1-3 0 3 4
D Dial 7 1-4 0-0 0-1 0 1 2
D Curry DND - BULGING DISC LOWER
V Carter DNP - NWT - ARTHROSCOPIC SURGER
M Bradley DNP - COACH'S DECISION

_____________________________________________________
TOTALS 240 47-87 17-25 12-45 32 23 117
_____________________________________________________
Percentages: FG-.540, FT-.680. 3-Point Goals: 6-12,
.5(M Peterson 3-7, A Williams 0-1, C Childs 3-4). Team
rebounds: 10.Blocked shots: 4 (H Olajuwon 2, A Davis,
M Peterson).Turnovers: 11 (J Williams 4, A Davis, E
Montross, A Williams, K Clark, C Childs, H Olajuwon, D
Dial).Steals: 7 (A Williams 2, J Williams, E Montross,
M Peterson, C Childs, JJackson).


--------------------------------------------
CHICAGO 31 26 22 25 - 104
TORONTO 37 33 30 17 - 117 
--------------------------------------------


======================================================
TOR Raptors at CHI Bulls 
Boxscores/Lineups(4/5/02 8:52:08 PM)


TORONTO (98)

fg ft rb 
min m-a m-a o-t a pf tp
J Williams 22 2-3 5-7 3-7 0 2 9
A Davis 36 8-16 11-14 2-8 3 3 27
E Montross 15 0-3 0-2 0-1 0 0 0
M Peterson 38 5-12 0-0 5-7 4 5 10
A Williams 33 6-9 5-5 0-2 4 4 18
C Childs 30 1-8 2-2 1-5 8 3 4
J Jackson 13 0-2 0-0 0-1 2 0 0
K Clark 31 4-9 4-6 2-10 3 3 12
D Dial 7 3-5 2-2 0-2 1 0 9
H Olajuwon 15 4-5 1-2 0-2 1 2 9
D Curry DNP - BULGING DISC IN LOW 
V Carter DNP - ARTHROSCOPIC SURGER 
M Bradley DNP - COACH'S DECISION 

_____________________________________________________
TOTALS 240 33-72 30-40 13-45 26 22 98
_____________________________________________________

Percentages: FG-.458, FT-.750. 3-Point Goals:
2-9, .222 (M Peterson 0-3, A Williams 1-2, C 
Childs 0-2, D Dial 1-2). Team Rebounds: 8. 
Blocked Shots:6 (K Clark 5, A Davis). 
Turnovers:13 (M Peterson 3, A Davis 2, C 
Childs 2, A Williams 2, H Olajuwon, J 
Williams, K Clark, J Jackson). Steals: 8 (H 
Olajuwon 2, J Williams 2, A Williams 2, A 
Davis, C Childs).


CHICAGO (96)

fg ft rb 
min m-a m-a o-t a pf tp
J Rose 40 12-20 10-11 0-4 3 2 35
T Chandler 35 4-7 2-3 4-10 0 3 10
E Curry 23 1-7 1-1 3-7 0 5 3
F Hoiberg 27 0-6 5-5 0-4 0 6 5
T Best 30 5-11 2-2 0-3 7 2 12
J Crawford 18 2-5 0-0 0-3 2 1 6
M Fizer 16 4-7 2-3 1-3 0 3 10
N Richardson 6 2-3 0-0 0-0 0 1 4
T Hassell 24 3-8 3-3 0-1 3 3 9
D Bagaric 10 1-1 0-0 2-3 1 2 2
C Oakley 11 0-2 0-0 0-1 0 3 0
E Robinson DNP - STRAINED LEFT GROIN 

_____________________________________________________
TOTALS 240 34-77 25-28 10-39 16 31 96
_____________________________________________________

Percentages: FG-.442, FT-.893. 3-Point Goals:
3-9, .333 (J Rose 1-1, F Hoiberg 0-1, T Best 
0-2, J Crawford 2-3, T Hassell 0-2). Team 
Rebounds: 3. Blocked Shots:1 (E Curry). 
Turnovers:15 (M Fizer 4, J Rose 3, T Best 2, 
T Hassell 2, D Bagaric, J Crawford, E Curry, 
T Chandler). Steals: 7 (T Best 2, C Oakley, F
Hoiberg, T Chandler, E Curry, J Rose).

-------------------------------------------
TORONTO 26 25 20 27 - 98
CHICAGO 31 19 19 27 - 96
------------------------------------------- 

======================================
IND Pacers at TOR Raptors 
Boxscores/Lineups(4/7/02 5:27:40 PM)


INDIANA (84)

fg ft rb 
min m-a m-a o-t a pf tp
R Artest 24 3-7 0-0 1-3 2 2 6
J O'Neal 43 10-20 4-9 1-7 1 5 24
B Miller 38 5-10 5-6 4-8 4 5 15
R Miller 38 8-12 4-4 0-1 2 1 26
J Tinsley 24 0-2 0-0 0-1 5 3 0
J Foster 15 1-2 0-2 1-5 0 2 2
K Ollie 24 0-3 1-1 0-0 8 0 1
J Bender 20 3-5 0-0 0-1 0 4 8
R Mercer 14 1-4 0-0 0-0 1 0 2
A Croshere DNP - COACH'S DECISION 
B Sundov DNP - COACH'S DECISION 
J Brewer DNP - COACH'S DECISION 
P Brezec DNP - COACH'S DECISION 

_____________________________________________________
TOTALS 240 31-65 14-22 7-26 23 22 84
_____________________________________________________

Percentages: FG-.477, FT-.636. 3-Point Goals:
8-13, .615 (R Artest 0-1, J O'Neal 0-2, R 
Miller 6-7, J Bender 2-3). Team Rebounds: 10.
Blocked Shots:3 (J O'Neal 2, J Bender). 
Turnovers:15 (J O'Neal 3, J Tinsley 3, R 
Miller 2, K Ollie 2, J Bender 2, R Mercer, B 
Miller, R Artest). Steals: 8 (R Artest 3, R 
Miller 2, J Tinsley 2, K Ollie).


TORONTO (94)

fg ft rb 
min m-a m-a o-t a pf tp
J Williams 32 1-4 4-4 7-9 4 2 6
A Davis 36 7-18 7-8 5-10 1 5 21
E Montross 13 0-2 0-0 2-5 1 2 0
M Peterson 40 4-17 0-0 0-1 2 2 9
A Williams 41 11-16 2-2 1-6 1 2 26
C Childs 27 2-7 4-4 0-1 8 4 9
K Clark 35 5-11 5-6 3-9 2 1 15
H Olajuwon 16 4-6 0-0 1-4 0 1 8
D Curry DNP - BULGING DISC LOWER 
V Carter DNP - ORTHOPEDIC SURGERY 
J Jackson DNP - COACH'S DECISION 
D Dial DNP - COACH'S DECISION 
M Bradley DNP - COACH'S DECISION 

_____________________________________________________
TOTALS 240 34-81 22-24 19-45 19 19 94
_____________________________________________________

Percentages: FG-.420, FT-.917. 3-Point Goals:
4-11, .364 (M Peterson 1-5, A Williams 2-4, C
Childs 1-2). Team Rebounds: 10. Blocked 
Shots:2 (E Montross, H Olajuwon). 
Turnovers:11 (A Davis 3, H Olajuwon 2, A 
Williams 2, E Montross, J Williams, K Clark, 
M Peterson). Steals: 8 (A Williams 3, C 
Childs 2, H Olajuwon, K Clark, M Peterson).

-------------------------------------------
INDIANA 22 23 21 18 - 84
TORONTO 21 25 21 27 - 94
------------------------------------------- 
========================================game 9
CHA Hornets at TOR Raptors 
Boxscores/Lineups(4/9/02 7:39:33 PM)


CHARLOTTE (80)

fg ft rb 
min m-a m-a o-t a pf tp
J Mashburn 43 8-28 5-8 3-9 3 2 21
P Brown 39 5-8 6-7 8-12 0 4 16
E Campbell 21 4-6 2-2 2-6 1 1 10
B Davis 43 3-13 1-2 0-2 5 1 7
D Wesley 37 4-11 1-2 0-1 1 3 10
J Magloire 19 2-2 3-4 1-1 1 3 7
S Augmon 20 3-3 1-4 0-1 3 0 7
G Lynch 13 1-1 0-0 0-3 0 2 2
L Nailon 5 0-1 0-0 0-0 0 0 0
B Drew DNP - COACH'S DECISION 
R Traylor DNP - COACH'S DECISION 
K Haston DNP - COACH'S DECISION 

_____________________________________________________
TOTALS 240 30-73 19-29 14-35 14 16 80
_____________________________________________________

Percentages: FG-.411, FT-.655. 3-Point Goals:
1-13, .077 (J Mashburn 0-5, B Davis 0-4, D 
Wesley 1-4). Team Rebounds: 12. Blocked 
Shots:6 (J Magloire 3, E Campbell, P Brown, B
Davis). Turnovers:13 (J Mashburn 3, B Davis 
3, D Wesley 2, E Campbell 2, G Lynch, P 
Brown, J Magloire). Steals: 7 (D Wesley 4, B 
Davis 2, S Augmon).


TORONTO (84)

fg ft rb 
min m-a m-a o-t a pf tp
J Williams 40 6-8 0-0 3-8 1 4 12
A Davis 44 11-16 2-2 2-7 7 3 24
E Montross 10 0-1 0-0 0-0 0 2 0
M Peterson 38 5-18 3-4 2-5 7 4 15
A Williams 34 5-12 0-0 1-4 4 2 10
C Childs 24 2-8 2-2 1-2 4 1 7
K Clark 14 2-7 0-0 2-7 0 5 4
D Curry 15 1-4 1-1 1-2 2 1 3
H Olajuwon 21 4-5 1-2 2-4 0 1 9
V Carter DNP - ARTHROSCOPIC SURG., LEFT 
J Jackson DNP - COACH'S DECISION 
D Dial DNP - COACH'S DECISION 
M Bradley DNP - COACH'S DECISION 

_____________________________________________________
TOTALS 240 36-79 9-11 14-39 25 23 84
_____________________________________________________

Percentages: FG-.456, FT-.818. 3-Point Goals:
3-11, .273 (M Peterson 2-6, C Childs 1-5). 
Team Rebounds: 12. Blocked Shots:5 (A Davis 
2, A Williams 2, K Clark). Turnovers:16 (J 
Williams 5, A Davis 4, C Childs 3, M Peterson
2, D Curry, H Olajuwon). Steals: 8 (H 
Olajuwon 2, J Williams 2, K Clark 2, A Davis,
M Peterson).

-------------------------------------------
CHARLOTTE 26 20 18 16 - 80
TORONTO 14 30 18 22 - 84
------------------------------------------- 


====================================game 10
TOR Raptors at IND Pacers 
Boxscores/Lineups(4/10/02 8:52:37 PM)



TORONTO (82)

fg ft rb 
min m-a m-a o-t a pf tp
J Williams 32 4-9 1-1 1-3 0 2 9
A Davis 39 9-16 6-7 3-9 0 4 24
E Montross 8 0-0 0-0 0-1 0 1 0
M Peterson 41 7-13 6-7 2-3 2 4 22
A Williams 32 4-10 0-1 1-2 6 4 9
K Clark 29 4-7 3-4 2-5 2 5 11
J Jackson 16 0-0 0-0 0-4 5 3 0
D Curry 9 0-6 0-0 0-0 0 0 0
H Olajuwon 20 1-5 0-0 2-3 0 4 2
D Dial 14 2-7 1-2 0-2 2 0 5
C Childs DNP - NWT - STRAINED RT. HEEL
V Carter DNP - NWT - ARTHROSCOPIC SURGER
M Bradley DNP - COACH'S DECISION

_____________________________________________________
TOTALS 240 31-73 17-22 11-32 17 27 82
_____________________________________________________
Percentages: FG-.425, FT-.773. 3-Point Goals: 3-13,
.231(M Peterson 2-5, A Williams 1-4, D Curry 0-4).
Team rebounds: 7.Blocked shots: 8 (K Clark 3, H
Olajuwon 3, J Williams, D Curry).Turnovers: 18 (A
Davis 5, A Williams 4, J Williams 3, M Peterson 2, K
Clark, J Jackson, D Curry, H Olajuwon).Steals: 8 (H
Olajuwon 3, D Dial 2, J Williams, A Williams, KClark).


INDIANA (98)

fg ft rb 
min m-a m-a o-t a pf tp
R Artest 28 3-6 0-0 1-3 1 4 7
J O'Neal 40 9-18 11-12 3-15 4 4 29
B Miller 39 9-12 5-6 5-11 2 3 23
R Miller 35 5-13 4-4 1-3 3 3 15
J Tinsley 35 6-12 1-2 0-3 9 2 14
J Bender 29 1-5 0-0 0-1 0 4 2
K Ollie 14 0-2 4-4 0-0 2 0 4
J Foster 12 2-3 0-2 2-2 0 3 4
A Croshere 4 0-2 0-0 2-3 0 1 0
R Mercer 2 0-0 0-0 0-0 0 0 0
P Brezec 1 0-0 0-0 0-0 0 1 0
B Sundov 1 0-1 0-0 0-0 0 0 0

_____________________________________________________
TOTALS 240 35-74 25-30 14-41 21 25 98
_____________________________________________________
Percentages: FG-.473, FT-.833. 3-Point Goals: 3-12,
.25(R Artest 1-1, R Miller 1-6, J Tinsley 1-4, J
Bender 0-1). Team rebounds: 11.Blocked shots: 7 (J
O'Neal 2, R Miller 2, J Tinsley 2, B
Miller).Turnovers: 15 (J Tinsley 4, J Bender 3, R
Artest 2, R Miller 2, J O'Neal, B Miller, J Foster, A
Croshere).Steals: 9 (J Tinsley 3, R Miller 2, R
Artest, J O'Neal, J Bender, KOllie).


--------------------------------------------
TORONTO 16 24 23 19 - 82
INDIANA 37 8 31 22 - 98 
--------------------------------------------



======================================game 11 win
Boxscores/Lineups(4/12/02 6:24:31 PM)


ATLANTA (73)

fg ft rb 
min m-a m-a o-t a pf tp
I Newble 27 2-8 0-0 3-3 1 3 4
S Abdur-Rahim 28 5-14 3-4 2-6 1 2 13
N Mohammed 18 1-4 0-0 1-4 0 2 2
D Johnson 36 3-11 2-2 0-2 3 3 8
J Terry 29 7-13 4-4 0-1 4 1 20
C Bowdler 22 0-3 4-4 2-4 1 4 4
T Kukoc 10 0-3 0-0 0-1 1 0 0
J Vaughn 23 2-3 0-0 0-2 2 1 4
H Mottola 19 5-8 0-0 1-3 0 2 10
M Strickland 18 2-4 0-2 1-1 0 1 4
L Smith 10 2-5 0-0 2-5 1 1 4
A Henderson DNP - SORE RIGHT KNEE 
D Glover DNP - STRESS FRACTURE RIG 

_____________________________________________________
TOTALS 240 29-76 13-16 12-32 14 20 73
_____________________________________________________

Percentages: FG-.382, FT-.813. 3-Point Goals:
2-13, .154 (I Newble 0-1, D Johnson 0-4, J 
Terry 2-5, T Kukoc 0-3). Team Rebounds: 8. 
Blocked Shots:4 (M Strickland, N Mohammed, C 
Bowdler, D Johnson). Turnovers:18 (S 
Abdur-Rahim 7, M Strickland 2, D Johnson 2, J
Terry 2, J Vaughn, L Smith, N Mohammed, I 
Newble, C Bowdler). Steals: 9 (D Johnson 3, J
Terry 2, S Abdur-Rahim, L Smith, H Mottola, C
Bowdler).


TORONTO (112)

fg ft rb 
min m-a m-a o-t a pf tp
J Williams 39 8-12 4-7 3-6 3 4 20
A Davis 25 3-7 3-4 2-4 7 1 9
K Clark 32 9-9 2-5 1-6 1 4 20
M Peterson 34 7-13 1-1 0-3 3 2 18
A Williams 19 2-3 0-0 0-3 4 3 4
H Olajuwon 21 2-4 3-4 1-5 1 2 7
J Jackson 30 4-8 1-2 0-3 11 1 10
D Curry 18 4-6 0-0 0-1 0 0 10
M Bradley 13 3-6 0-0 2-6 0 2 6
D Dial 9 3-5 2-2 0-1 0 0 8
E Montross DNP - COACH'S DECISION 
C Childs DNP - SPRAINED RIGHT HEEL 
V Carter DNP - ARTHROSCOPIC SURGER 

_____________________________________________________
TOTALS 240 45-73 16-25 9-38 30 19 112
_____________________________________________________

Percentages: FG-.616, FT-.640. 3-Point Goals:
6-14, .429 (M Peterson 3-7, A Williams 0-1, J
Jackson 1-2, D Curry 2-3, D Dial 0-1). Team 
Rebounds: 9. Blocked Shots:10 (K Clark 3, H 
Olajuwon 2, M Bradley 2, A Davis, J Williams,
A Williams). Turnovers:17 (A Davis 3, J 
Williams 3, K Clark 3, H Olajuwon 2, A 
Williams 2, J Jackson 2, M Peterson, M 
Bradley). Steals: 11 (K Clark 3, J Williams 
2, A Williams 2, J Jackson 2, H Olajuwon, M 
Peterson).

-------------------------------------------
ATLANTA 17 19 21 16 - 73
TORONTO 29 34 21 28 - 112

============================game 12 win
Boxscores/Lineups(4/14/02 5:23:37 PM)
NEW JERSEY (82)

fg ft rb 
min m-a m-a o-t a pf tp
K Martin 21 3-8 1-1 0-3 1 2 7
K Van Horn 11 1-8 0-0 1-5 1 4 2
A Williams 19 2-7 0-0 2-4 0 1 4
K Kittles 14 1-2 0-0 0-0 1 0 2
J Kidd 22 4-6 0-2 0-2 3 0 8
B Scalabrine 31 6-11 4-5 3-9 0 2 16
L Harris 17 2-5 1-2 1-1 2 1 6
J Collins 29 6-7 4-8 2-3 0 2 16
R Jefferson 22 2-6 2-2 0-4 0 1 6
B Armstrong 16 0-6 0-0 1-1 0 1 0
A Johnson 26 5-9 1-2 0-2 5 1 12
D Marshall 12 0-3 3-4 0-1 0 0 3

_____________________________________________________
TOTALS 240 32-78 16-26 10-35 13 15 82
_____________________________________________________

Percentages: FG-.410, FT-.615. 3-Point Goals:
2-10, .200 (K Van Horn 0-2, J Kidd 0-1, B 
Scalabrine 0-1, L Harris 1-2, B Armstrong 
0-2, A Johnson 1-2). Team Rebounds: 11. 
Blocked Shots:1 (A Williams). Turnovers:11 (J
Kidd 3, K Van Horn 2, J Collins 2, A Johnson,
B Scalabrine, K Martin, B Armstrong). Steals:
7 (A Johnson 3, D Marshall, R Jefferson, B 
Scalabrine, K Kittles).


TORONTO (101)

fg ft rb 
min m-a m-a o-t a pf tp
J Williams 29 6-7 0-0 1-7 2 0 12
A Davis 29 7-11 0-1 1-8 3 2 14
K Clark 32 4-10 1-2 0-9 3 4 9
M Peterson 34 10-14 1-1 0-4 7 3 24
A Williams 27 5-11 2-2 2-4 5 2 13
H Olajuwon 22 5-6 0-0 0-6 0 4 10
D Curry 23 4-9 0-0 2-2 1 2 9
J Jackson 24 2-5 0-0 0-1 9 3 4
M Bradley 10 1-3 0-0 1-2 0 0 2
D Dial 10 2-5 0-0 2-3 0 0 4
E Montross DNP - FLU LIKE SYMPTOMS 
C Childs DNP - SPRAINED RIGHT HEEL 
V Carter DNP - ARTHROSCOPIC SURG., LEFT 

_____________________________________________________
TOTALS 240 46-81 4-6 9-46 30 20 101
_____________________________________________________

Percentages: FG-.568, FT-.667. 3-Point Goals:
5-9, .556 (M Peterson 3-5, A Williams 1-1, D 
Curry 1-2, D Dial 0-1). Team Rebounds: 1. 
Blocked Shots:7 (H Olajuwon 3, J Williams, A 
Williams, K Clark, M Bradley). Turnovers:14 
(M Peterson 4, H Olajuwon 2, K Clark 2, J 
Jackson 2, D Curry, D Dial, A Davis, A 
Williams). Steals: 6 (A Williams 3, K Clark 
2, H Olajuwon).

-------------------------------------------
NEW JERSEY 19 9 17 37 - 82
TORONTO 28 22 29 22 - 101

======================================game 14 win
J Williams 40 7-11 8-10 7-12 0 4 22
A Davis 38 6-11 9-10 1-10 3 4 21
K Clark 26 3-8 2-4 0-5 0 4 8
M Peterson 32 8-17 3-5 1-3 1 4 22
A Williams 35 4-11 0-0 0-1 8 2 8
C Childs 21 1-4 0-0 1-1 6 2 3
D Curry 17 3-5 0-0 0-3 1 1 7
H Olajuwon 11 2-6 0-0 1-5 2 1 4
J Jackson 17 3-4 0-0 0-1 1 3 6
D Dial 2 0-0 0-0 0-1 1 0 0
M Bradley 1 1-2 0-0 0-0 0 0 2
E Montross DNP - SPRAINED LEFT FOOT 
V Carter DNP - ARTHROSCOPIC SURGER 

_____________________________________________________
TOTALS 240 38-79 22-29 11-42 23 25 103
_____________________________________________________

Percentages: FG-.481, FT-.759. 3-Point Goals:
5-13, .385 (A Davis 0-1, M Peterson 3-6, A 
Williams 0-2, C Childs 1-1, D Curry 1-3). 
Team Rebounds: 15. Blocked Shots:4 (A Davis 
3, J Williams). Turnovers:14 (A Davis 3, K 
Clark 3, M Peterson 3, A Williams 2, C 
Childs, J Jackson, D Dial). Steals: 14 (A 
Williams 4, J Williams 3, K Clark 3, C Childs
2, A Davis, M Peterson).

-------------------------------------------
CLEVELAND 27 25 16 17 - 85
TORONTO 22 28 27 26 - 103


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## Slasher (Jul 11, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Mike1155</b>!
> 
> 
> Well said Slasher. This pretty much sums up how i feel about this situation.


All I do is speak of the truth friend :yes:


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## Junkyard Dog13 (Aug 9, 2003)

I'd do the Carter for Ricahrdosn and Ely deal.
The one foir Hudson, Wally amnd Kandi aint bad either.
We could then draft Childress to playSG or Biedrens.


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## KeonBackinTO (May 26, 2003)

Charlz your arguement is terrible. The Raps that year with healthy Vince were in 3rd. Then VC went down at all star break, and they barely squeaked into the playoffs. 
They were good with Vince, very very bad without him even if they had a long winning streak against bad teams.

This year with the new guys and VC they were ok, without VC prolly the worst team in the league. Charlotte could beat them. 

And trading him for an average big man won't work. No one will score, cause no one can create for themselves and the Raps have no playmakers outside of VC. 
But you can say a good PG will change that. It won't tho VC is the only guy on the team that can finish consistently. The Raps need to stick with VC get a PG and watch Vince go back to his old days.


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## charlz (Jun 9, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>KeonBackinTO</b>!
> Charlz your arguement is terrible.


no it is not look at those box scores esp Mo Pete and Alvin (the perimeter players) after a few games went by they adjusted to the defenses and we collectively 45% from the field.

Further more the Raptors have been on numerous terrible loosing streaks with Vince in the line-up (including a couple of double digits loosing streaks).


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## Mattsanity (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>charlz</b>!
> 
> 
> no it is not look at those box scores esp Mo Pete and Alvin (the perimeter players) after a few games went by they adjusted to the defenses and we collectively 45% from the field.
> ...



Exactly! Trade Vince, so the next 4 or 5 seasons can be losing seasons! 

REBUILDING MEANS LOSING SEASONS, AND IF YOU WANT TO REBUILD, THEN ATLEAST MAKE THIS TEAM A WINNING TEAM IN A SHORTER TIME THEN WHAT YOU AND THAT "BLOW UP THE RAPTORS" DUDE WANTS. DONT GIVE ME THE "WE HAVE TO TAKE THE RISK" CRAP. WHAT IF THE REBUILDING TURNS OUT TO BE CORRUPTED? WHAT IF THIS TEAM NEVER GETS TO REACH IT'S PEAK? WHAT IF BOSH DOESNT TURN OUT TO BE A PERMANENT FRANCHISE PLAYER THAT CAN *CARRY* THIS TEAM? BASICALLY, WE HAVE TO PRESERVERE FOR LOSING FOR YEARS IN ORDER TO TRANSFORM INTO AN ELITE TEAM. NOW THAT'S WHAT YOU CALL AN IDIOTIC ORGANIZATION. BUNCH OF BULL.


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>charlz</b>!
> 
> 
> no it is not look at those box scores esp Mo Pete and Alvin (the perimeter players) after a few games went by they adjusted to the defenses and we collectively 45% from the field.
> ...


i wonder how long you're going to continue with this sharade of "being a VC fan" while still continuing to bash him left and right.


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>madman</b>!
> 
> 
> Jalen did make mistakes with his deicion making, but he should not be making those the PG should, it all ties into the fact that we dont have a good PG, and a natural one, look at all of our teams that had success, yes alvin was our starter but we had Childs coming in and playing well, and then last year we got rafer and look what happened!!! Our biggest problem is the PG


My exact thoughts.. Jalen is a hard-nosed player.. Someone who will push our players to play their best and win... He's the type of person we need in the locker room right now..


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>charlz</b>!
> 
> 
> no it is not look at those box scores esp Mo Pete and Alvin (the perimeter players) after a few games went by they adjusted to the defenses and we collectively 45% from the field.
> ...



This is a terrible argument.. Why are you bringing up something that happend three seasons ago? Look at our lineup.. We had a lot more dept than we do now.. Keon, Hakeem, Childs? All of these guys were contributing.. Factor in the fact that Alvin was a better play back then and we got a totally different team than the present.. When Vince would go down this season who would we have? Jalen(Playing Point.. Not his position) Donyell(Can provide a lot of points and rebounds but not someone to count on when the pressure is put on him), Bosh(rookie) and Mo Pete(At times can dissapear offensively)...

The Raps were a totally different team back then and they had the ability to win without Carter.. There is no doubt that without Vince Carter we are definately one of the worst teams in the NBA..


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## madman (Oct 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jcintosun911</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


exactly


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## -inVINCEible- (Jul 22, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>KG_And1</b>!
> How 'bout Wally Szczerbiak, Michael Olowakandi, and Troy Hudson for Carter and a 2nd round/your 12th man on your bench?
> 
> Carter would give us that slasher we've always wanted...he does slash still, does he? Sprewell hasn't been slashing as much as we've wanted.
> ...



i love this idea

we would be so deep, and this would prolly do extremely well in the East....thats a big lineup that could match up well vs. the west


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## -James- (Apr 27, 2004)

not to mention we could still pick iguodala, harris, or gordon to make the lines

kandi/moiso
bosh/marshall
iggy (yea im stealing iginlas name)/wally
rose/sato (second round)
hudson.mason

or

or kandi/moiso
bosh/marshall
rose/wally
hudson/sato
gordon (or harris)/mason

bench:
williams, murray


... as hard as it is to imagine the raps w/o carter, i love the latter roster


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## charlz (Jun 9, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>trick</b>!
> 
> 
> i wonder how long you're going to continue with this sharade of "being a VC fan" while still continuing to bash him left and right.


*sigh* I would only do the Vince deal if there was Value - some of the ideas would be Derek Anderson + Dale Davis and a first rounder.

This is the way forums are it is just text and alot of what is trying to be communicated is lost. The idea of trading Vince comes from the fact that we need to move one of 2 big contracts and Jalen can not be moved and I am worried that Vince may have more injury problems so get some value while you can.

I think I am going to try and drop this whole Vince thing - I doubt there will be a trade for him anyhow so the point is moot.


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## Mattsanity (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>charlz</b>!
> 
> 
> *sigh* I would only do the Vince deal if there was Value - some of the ideas would be Derek Anderson + Dale Davis and a first rounder.
> ...


:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap: :rbanana::rbanana::rbanana::rbanana::rbanana::vbanana::vbanana::vbanana::vbanana::vbanana::bbanana::bbanana::bbanana::bbanana:


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