# Elite Eight: (2) Kentucky vs (5) Michigan State



## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

Controversy.


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## Ron Mexico (Feb 14, 2004)

they should just send it to overtime! it looks behind the line


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

It looks on the line to me.


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## Ron Mexico (Feb 14, 2004)

Come On Insert A Time Limit M"fers


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

good call ..... I think.


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## adarsh1 (May 28, 2003)

WOW. This has to be the best set of final four games i've ever seen


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

After they blew it up, I think it was good. Though it was so pixelly...who knows.


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## Rafaelaraujotody (Jul 16, 2004)

I'm pretty sure that was behind the arc... but i really think that was a foul too... they should get a ft


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## Al Jefferson (Nov 20, 2003)

Sparks got the freakin' shaft.. He got FOULED !!!!!!

My nerves are tore up... 
C'mon Cats..

PdP


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## ChristopherJ (Aug 10, 2004)

That was a good call. Wow what a game!!!


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## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

When they blew it up, it was obviously behind the line.


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## Ron Mexico (Feb 14, 2004)

1st time in history 3 OT games

:clap:


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## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

adarsh1 said:


> WOW. This has to be the best set of final four games i've ever seen


best set of elite 8 games ever? nice shot by the way.


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## Ron Mexico (Feb 14, 2004)

PhearDaPierce said:


> Sparks got the freakin' shaft.. He got FOULED !!!!!!
> 
> My nerves are tore up...
> C'mon Cats..
> ...


right it looked like they just ignored it, good and bad call at the same time


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

I just don't see how the Final Four will be able to top this weekend. These are some of the best comebacks and finishes I've ever seen.

Sparks' shot came down to millimeters. That couldn't have been closer, but I don't see how they could have overturned the three. I want to see five more minutes anyway.


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## Rafaelaraujotody (Jul 16, 2004)

What a shot... i fell out of bed after this one... wow!


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## Ron Mexico (Feb 14, 2004)

Rajon Rondo and Terrence Morris playing like seniors


damn you Joe Crawford :curse:


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## Rafaelaraujotody (Jul 16, 2004)

People shooting 3's like there's no tomorrow!


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

Spartans return the favor from the last play of regulation. Four attempts in one possession, and the last one ends with a three.

I can't show any more emotion. I'm still recovering from last night.


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## tr_west (Dec 15, 2003)

81-81. 1 minute left. Here we go!!


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## DHarris34Phan (Oct 28, 2004)

*horrible...horrible last play..not even close to getting a shot off.*


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## ChristopherJ (Aug 10, 2004)

Wow they couldn't even get a shot off :no:


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## tr_west (Dec 15, 2003)

Wow bad play by Kentucky. Rondo didn't know what to do. They didn't even get a shot off. DOUBLE OVERTIME.


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

UK had 25.5 seconds to get a shot off and couldn't.

Double-overtime.

For those who don't know, Michigan State got back in the game by shooting 70+ percent from the floor in the second half, before Kentucky then made _their_ big run to eventually tie it.


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## Al Jefferson (Nov 20, 2003)

Let's try this once again lol..

PdP


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## Rafaelaraujotody (Jul 16, 2004)

2nd overtime!!!!!!!!!! WHAT A GAME!

By the way... that brunette cheeleader of MST is hot... She seems excited... LOL


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## DHarris34Phan (Oct 28, 2004)

TonyM said:


> best set of elite 8 games ever? nice shot by the way.


*Best NCAA tourney ever?*


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## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

for as intelligent as their coaches are (Zona & UK), both teams had some pretty crummy strategies for game winners.


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## Rafaelaraujotody (Jul 16, 2004)

Things are looking bight now for MST... Rondo doesn't know what the hell he is doing!


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

Two UK freshmen mess up a fast break as Rondo led his man too far. Big, big turnover.

Ten ties, 19 lead changes.


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## tr_west (Dec 15, 2003)

Davis with the putback!! MSU up 5 with 2 minutes left.


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

Paul Davis with a monster follow-up jam. I can't believe what a weekend he's had. Most everyone has just completely written him off.

UK hasn't scored in the second overtime, and they don't look very confident out there.


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## Rafaelaraujotody (Jul 16, 2004)

I don't think UK can come back now... but that's what's basketball is all about... somebody has to win in the end...


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## Ron Mexico (Feb 14, 2004)

Rpi Is Stupid Stop Mentioning It , Its Based On Winning Percentage It Means Nothing


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## Rafaelaraujotody (Jul 16, 2004)

FOUL HIM ALREADY! Damn!


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## tr_west (Dec 15, 2003)

88-86 MSU. Anderson going to the line with 12 seconds left. Kentucky waited a long time to foul.


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## Rafaelaraujotody (Jul 16, 2004)

Stupid team! Thay deserve to lose!

I'm in love with michigan state cheerleader.... :banana:


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## tr_west (Dec 15, 2003)

Anderson makes both!!!! 4 point game. 12 seconds left. Kentucky cost themselves the ball game by not fouling quick enough.


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## Al Jefferson (Nov 20, 2003)

It's over.. The cats didn't go down easy though.

PdP


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## tr_west (Dec 15, 2003)

Rondo makes the easy layup. 90-88 MSU. 7.5 seconds left.


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## Rafaelaraujotody (Jul 16, 2004)

Just a miracle now... something like a 4-point play... or a miss... BOOOOO!


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## tr_west (Dec 15, 2003)

WOW... dangerous inbound pass. Guy threw it over Moss to the leaping Anderson. He's going to the line for two.
First....Swish
second.......make

4 point lead.Looks like the game's over.


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## Rafaelaraujotody (Jul 16, 2004)

That's over... see you guys!


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## Ron Mexico (Feb 14, 2004)

congrats to Michigan State,


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## UKfan4Life (Mar 5, 2003)

Great season for the Cats. I have no complaints and I won't make any excuses.

We'll be missin' ya Chuck.

Now it's time to go out and get my mind off the loss.

Good game Spartans.


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## SmithRocSSU (Jul 30, 2004)

STUPID TUBBY SMITH!!!!! HE IS THE BIGGEST IDIOT!!! This game just proves my point! #1 why was the ball in Rondo's hands??? It should have been in Sparks hands, an experienced player! He had 25 seconds...25 SECONDS TO SCORE!!! Waiting till 6 seconds left to try to score is stupid!!! Why was Sparks sitting out? I know Rondo was in for defence, but Crawford should have been on the bench and the best scorer, Sparks, should have been running the point! Tubby blew it!!! He was calling the shots, and they were the wrong shots. They waited too long to foul in the 2nd OT.

FIRE TUBBY SMITH, I'M SICK OF HIM!!! HE BLEW IT FOR US!


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## Brian34Cook (Mar 26, 2003)

Wow what a game.. Meet us in St. Lou Spartans!! YESSSSSSSSSSS


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## adarsh1 (May 28, 2003)

Illinois won't get past Louisville


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Fire Tubby? You're an idiot.


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## UKfan4Life (Mar 5, 2003)

SmithRocSSU said:


> STUPID TUBBY SMITH!!!!! HE IS THE BIGGEST IDIOT!!! This game just proves my point! #1 why was the ball in Rondo's hands??? It should have been in Sparks hands, an experienced player! He had 25 seconds...25 SECONDS TO SCORE!!! Waiting till 6 seconds left to try to score is stupid!!! Why was Sparks sitting out? I know Rondo was in for defence, but Crawford should have been on the bench and the best scorer, Sparks, should have been running the point! Tubby blew it!!! He was calling the shots, and they were the wrong shots. They waited too long to foul in the 2nd OT.
> 
> FIRE TUBBY SMITH, I'M SICK OF HIM!!! HE BLEW IT FOR US!


You're an idiot. That's all I have to say. Sparks was siting out because of defense and he got in whenever we could get him in on offense. Learn your X's and O's.

We waited to long to foul, but whose fault is that? He told them to foul, you could see him on the sidelines screaming it. They just didn't do it for some reason. He sent in Patrick to shoot the last FT of the regulation, he missed it. He set Patrick up to shoot the last shot of regulation, he ended up making it. He wanted to give it to Patrick in the first OT for the final posession and we didn't go to him for some reason.

Tubby did all he could without playing the game himself and did as good a job as any coach could do. Nobody lost this game for us. Not Tubby, not Patrick, not Rajon, not Kelenna, not Chuck, not Randolph, NOBODY. UK got outplayed in what was one of the best games of the basketball season. Learn to control your temper, little girl, and grow up. Stop posting.


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## UKfan4Life (Mar 5, 2003)

HKF said:


> Fire Tubby? You're an idiot.


Thank you. This is the kind of guy that gives UK fans a bad name.


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## SmithRocSSU (Jul 30, 2004)

UKfan4Life said:


> You're an idiot. That's all I have to say. Sparks was siting out because of defense and he got in whenever we could get him in on offense. Learn your X's and O's.
> 
> We waited to long to foul, but whose fault is that? He told them to foul, you could see him on the sidelines screaming it. They just didn't do it for some reason. He sent in Patrick to shoot the last FT of the regulation, he missed it. He set Patrick up to shoot the last shot of regulation, he ended up making it. He wanted to give it to Patrick in the first OT for the final posession and we didn't go to him for some reason.
> 
> Tubby did all he could without playing the game himself and did as good a job as any coach could do. Nobody lost this game for us. Not Tubby, not Patrick, not Rajon, not Kelenna, not Chuck, not Randolph, NOBODY. UK got outplayed in what was one of the best games of the basketball season. Learn to control your temper, little girl, and grow up. Stop posting.


Learn my X's and O's huh? Ok, How about UK's stupid 2/3 zone...That was stupid of Tubby because Mich. St. can shoot the ball well! Look at Louisville and WV. Louisville started with the 2/3 and saw it wasn't working and played man to man and started playing well! Sparks should not have been sitting. You need a balance of Offense and Defense. Rondo was in the game for defense, so Sparks should have been in there for the O instead of Crawford. 

Tubby did not set Sparks up for the last shot in regulation. Sparks got it off of a rebound...pay attention oh great UK fan! Heaven forbid if Tubby did acctually play, because I bet he sucks. Learn to control my temper? That's pretty good considering you called me a little girl and told me to grow up. Since when are you not entitled to your own opinion. So anyone who doesn't agree with you can't post? Thank you Mr. Maturity. 

I do not give UK fans a bad name, you just have your head up Tubby's ugly, fat rear. Tubby blew it for us. Excuse me for holding a coach up to any kind of standard. TAKE THE UVA JOB TUBBY, PLEASE!


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## Pan Mengtu (Jun 18, 2004)

Kentucky hasn't been to a final four since 98. Every other elite basketball program (North Carolina, Duke, Michigan St., Kansas, etc.) has been to _at least_ one, if not two or three since that time. I say they give him through this Morris/Rondo/Bradley/Crawford class to make a final four, and if he can't, he has to go. He's good for good teams, I'm not sure he's good enough to be at an elite program.


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## UKfan4Life (Mar 5, 2003)

SmithRocSSU said:


> Learn my X's and O's huh? Ok, How about UK's stupid 2/3 zone...That was stupid of Tubby because Mich. St. can shoot the ball well! Look at Louisville and WV. Louisville started with the 2/3 and saw it wasn't working and played man to man and started playing well! Sparks should not have been sitting. You need a balance of Offense and Defense. Rondo was in the game for defense, so Sparks should have been in there for the O instead of Crawford.
> 
> Tubby did not set Sparks up for the last shot in regulation. Sparks got it off of a rebound...pay attention oh great UK fan! Heaven forbid if Tubby did acctually play, because I bet he sucks. Learn to control my temper? That's pretty good considering you called me a little girl and told me to grow up. Since when are you not entitled to your own opinion. So anyone who doesn't agree with you can't post? Thank you Mr. Maturity.
> 
> I do not give UK fans a bad name, you just have your head up Tubby's ugly, fat rear. Tubby blew it for us. Excuse me for holding a coach up to any kind of standard. TAKE THE UVA JOB TUBBY, PLEASE!


Sparks DID get the last shot in regulation, pal. He missed it, Kelenna got the rebound, missed it, Sparks got it off a Bobby Perry tip, and he hit it. Duh. Watch Sportscenter or ESPNnews tonight. Maybe you should pay attention. Ouch. Served.

The 2-3 zone was only used when MSU inbounded the ball. We've been doing that against every team all season. The only other time we used a zone defense in the halfcourt was when we used a 3-2 zone on ONE posession. Ouch again.

Oh, so now it's come to calling Tubby ugly huh? No, I don't have my head stuck up his rear. My head is actually on my neck right now at home while Tubby is still in Austin. You have an opinion, that's great, but you never really present any good arguments, like right now for example, to support it.

Yeah, I can control my temper in these situations, because I don't freak out every time UK loses a game and then look for people to blame, like you do. Have you ever considered the remote possibility UK actually played very well and just got outplayed in the end in one of the best games in the Elite 8 ever? Tubby did every damn thing he could tonight without playing the game, we just came up short. I don't know what more you could ask of the man.


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## Al Jefferson (Nov 20, 2003)

I don't understand some UK fans..
Anytime we get beat.. It's always FIRE TUBBY !
The man only lossed 5 games this year.
I happen to like Tubby Smith. Everyone around me talks about how bad of a coach he is lol.. The man is smart. No he shouldn't be fired.

Lord yeah i'll miss Chuck UKfan .. Hope he finds a home in the NBA... Maybe Morris will develope some next year (I HOPE) .. Needs to get stronger. He would be awesome if he did. What about Crawford, I think that's the guy gonna have the biggest impact on this team next year. 
Well that's all we can talk bout is next year. 

Great game MSU .. 

PdP


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## SmithRocSSU (Jul 30, 2004)

UKfan4Life said:


> He set Patrick up to shoot the last shot of regulation, he ended up making it.


You said that Sparks was set up at regulation, and I pointed out that he wasn't...OUCH SERVED! Perry didn't even touch the ball. It bounced of the backboard and rim and Sparks got it by luck. He was not set up. 

Kentucky used the zone more than that, and it screwed them! But with that aside, Sparks should have been in that game for the offense, and you can't deny that. Rondo for D and Sparks (in for Crawford) for O. Bad call by Tubby. I make some very good arguments and you don't make any at all. You made fun of me for not being able to spell some UK players names, but you can't spell simple words like sitting and use proper grammar. 

Pan Mengtu said, "Kentucky hasn't been to a final four since 98. Every other elite basketball program (North Carolina, Duke, Michigan St., Kansas, etc.) has been to at least one, if not two or three since that time. I say they give him through this Morris/Rondo/Bradley/Crawford class to make a final four, and if he can't, he has to go. He's good for good teams, I'm not sure he's good enough to be at an elite program."

Very well said. Tubby just can't cut it. He made some very bad calls tonight and that's that. I'm still utterly shocked that we had 25 seconds to score, and Tubby had the ball in the wrong players hands and called the wrong play. I'm not responding anymore. Everything you say, you say because your head, which is still attatched to your neck is still up Tubby's rear, which is still in Austin. (Good comeback by the way.)


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## kg_mvp03-04 (Jul 24, 2003)

Rondo is a fool for holding onto the ball for so long, he should start earlier so they can setuo the offense, i doubt what Rondo did was the play that was drawn up by Tubby. I am not sure why the stupid players did not fould earlier, Tubby was screaming at them to foul, but the players should know by now that you have to foul because the other team can run down the clock and you won't get possession back. I think the play of Rondo really cost them the game. First holding the ball to long and second that breakaway pass that he threw away.


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## LanierFan (Oct 5, 2004)

Speaking as an MSU fan, I was more nervous with the ball in Rondo's hands than anyone else's. The kid was the best thing the Cats had in this game, and you take the bad with the good. Kentucky just didn't have enough offensive firepower to go any further. Still, they're a gallant and classy team. Credit to Tubby Smith and his club.


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## adarsh1 (May 28, 2003)

geez kid the guy takes you to a damn elite 8 and u want to fire him , sure go right ahead. You know talent wise, your team sucks.


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## UKfan4Life (Mar 5, 2003)

SmithRocSSU said:


> You said that Sparks was set up at regulation, and I pointed out that he wasn't...OUCH SERVED! Perry didn't even touch the ball. It bounced of the backboard and rim and Sparks got it by luck. He was not set up.
> 
> Kentucky used the zone more than that, and it screwed them! But with that aside, Sparks should have been in that game for the offense, and you can't deny that. Rondo for D and Sparks (in for Crawford) for O. Bad call by Tubby. I make some very good arguments and you don't make any at all. You made fun of me for not being able to spell some UK players names, but you can't spell simple words like sitting and use proper grammar.


What? The play was set for him. He missed it the first time, Kelenna got the rebound, jacked it up, missed it, then Bobby tipped it to him by pure luck. He didn't do it intentionally, but he did tip it to him. Again, watch it on SC or ESPNnews.

Sparks should have been in the game for offense, and he was whenever we could get him in without burning every timeout we had. But whenever he was on defense, Shannon Brown or Kevin Tolbert torched him and it was just us trying to score on offense and MSU scoring either a FG or getting to the FT line with him on defense. THAT's why he wasn't in the game the whole time.

I haven't made any arguments? I'm actually countering every argument you make.

I can't spell? You're the one that spells defense like "defence" and decides to use full caps lock. You can go back and find tons of spelling and grammar mistakes in your posts as well as mine, but who gives a ****? Anyways, this isn't school buddy, a place you should reconsider visiting. I only mocked you for the mispelling of UK players names because I've never seen a fan mispell UK players names so badly (Shagari = Saguri? Not even close).

Me and Pan have gotten into plenty of arguments over Tubby, and I'm done arguing about it now. Case closed.


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## UKfan4Life (Mar 5, 2003)

SmithRocSSU said:


> Very well said. Tubby just can't cut it. He made some very bad calls tonight and that's that. I'm still utterly shocked that we had 25 seconds to score, and Tubby had the ball in the wrong players hands and called the wrong play. I'm not responding anymore. Everything you say, you say because your head, which is still attatched to your neck is still up Tubby's rear, which is still in Austin. (Good comeback by the way.)


What bad calls did he make? Kelenna said at the press conference that the play at the end of the first OT was not meant to be as it turned out. The PLAYERS screwed up. Tubby didn't tell them to do that.

Everything I say, I say because I think with my head. Geographically speaking, my home, which is in Memphis Tennesee, is pretty far away from Austin Texas, so my head is right here on my neck in Memphis Tennessee, and Tubby's rear, which apparently knows a whole lot more about basketball than you do, is in Austin Texas, so unless you're ****ing retarded, how can my head be in his ***? It doens't make sense. It would suck to have my head in his ***, though. :whoknows:

I know your head is where it should be, so use it to think and calm yourself. Tonight's loss was unfortunate, UK played well and we just got outplayed down the stretch. Too bad for you you just can't seem to accept that. Maybe you shouldn't jump to conclusions and reach for blame as soon as UK drops a game. Consider all possibilities first.


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## Al Jefferson (Nov 20, 2003)

I went to the Pharmacy this morning..
Of course the game was the talk in there..
People were dogging Tubby.
I'll quote "The reason UK lost was because of the man on the bench"..
I tried my best to back Tubby up. But people just kept on and on about how bad of a coach he is. Not a bad coach if you ask me. As a UK fan, Tubby Smith should get extended endless years.. Only problem i've ever had with Tubby is recruiting, And boy was I impressed with this freshman class. Great Work Tubby and Crew.

Rondo will be the man next year. UKfan, You think he will be able to top his 85 steals next season ?

No weak Tubby Smith !!

PdP


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## Geaux Tigers (Apr 26, 2004)

As a UK fan but a bit of an outsider because I dont live in Kentucky or near it, I have found that Kentucky is cursed by it's own success. The fans expect a championship each year. UK has always been a top team as long as basketball has been played but if they dont win it all people dog the coach. As an LSU fan which has had a horrible basketball drought, I would be thrilled if we ever went to an Elite 8 or Final Four in my lifetime. 

I say just be happy that each year you turn out a top 10 team that is always feared in the nation, always lethal in the NCAA tournament, almost guaranteed an SEC championship, and is always entertaining to watch. UK will win when this freshman class gets a bit of experience under its belt.


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## Pan Mengtu (Jun 18, 2004)

Jsimo12 said:


> As a UK fan but a bit of an outsider because I dont live in Kentucky or near it, I have found that Kentucky is cursed by it's own success. The fans expect a championship each year. UK has always been a top team as long as basketball has been played but if they dont win it all people dog the coach. As an LSU fan which has had a horrible basketball drought, I would be thrilled if we ever went to an Elite 8 or Final Four in my lifetime.


UCONN, Duke, UNC, Michigan St., etc. go to final fours every few years. UK hasn't been to one in 7 years. They are supposed to be on the same level as those teams. If they aren't anymore, it's time to start thinking about making changes so that they can get back to that level.

Tubby Smith is a good coach, but he has severe limitations that might prevent the team from keeping up with the teams I mentioned; namely his horrendous motivational skills and his decent recruiting.


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## UKfan4Life (Mar 5, 2003)

PhearDaPierce said:


> Rondo will be the man next year. UKfan, You think he will be able to top his 85 steals next season ?
> 
> No weak Tubby Smith !!
> 
> PdP


You saw people dogging Tubby? When my family from Paducah called me, they said this is the first time they can remember since Tubby has been here where nobody was getting onto him. I thought most UK fans were taking the loss well. 

Rondo topping 85 steals next season? Phew, I don't know. He had an insane season defensively and a very stellar one for a freshman. Our freshmen are going to be so good next year, but without Chuck, we're going to suffer at the PF spot unless we can get Uche Echefu.



> UCONN, Duke, UNC, Michigan St., etc. go to final fours every few years. UK hasn't been to one in 7 years. They are supposed to be on the same level as those teams. If they aren't anymore, it's time to start thinking about making changes so that they can get back to that level.
> 
> Tubby Smith is a good coach, but he has severe limitations that might prevent the team from keeping up with the teams I mentioned; namely his horrendous motivational skills and his decent recruiting.


Well apart from the recruiting and motivational skills part, I can somewhat agree with this post. I don't want Tubby gone by any means, but the only knock I have on him as of right now is coaching flexibility. He needs to adjust his system according to the kind of players his most talented players are, and at times this season, it obviously looked as if he didn't do that. I think maybe he should take a leaf out of Billy Donovan's book (for once) and hire a guy strictly for offense (like Billy D did for defense).


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## Pan Mengtu (Jun 18, 2004)

UK players are consistently, year after year, the most unconfident of any players on top10 teams. They play like they are expected to lose every game. It's like that every year. His motivational skills are garbage; there is no denying that. He wins through his superb defensive and offensive systems, not because his players believe in themselves, because they don't. Anytime someone makes a minor mistake he automatically yanks them out and chews them out like they are not even human. It's amazing how well Bradley has gotten, despite being one of Tubby's most hated players. He's a confidence killer; there's no denying that.

His recruiting is decent, but he's really only recruited 2 nba players; Tayshaun is a very good roleplayer, and Bogans is a decent bench player on the worst team in the league. He's not bad, but he's not on the level of what other elite schools do.


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## Pan Mengtu (Jun 18, 2004)

He doesn't need an offensive coach; his offense is great. He runs the team like a well-oiled machine. He just allows for no mistakes so his players try not to mess up, instead of trying to win. Even Tayshaun Prince played passively most of the time he was at UK.


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## UKfan4Life (Mar 5, 2003)

Pan Mengtu said:


> UK players are consistently, year after year, the most unconfident of any players on top10 teams. They play like they are expected to lose every game. It's like that every year. His motivational skills are garbage; there is no denying that. He wins through his superb defensive and offensive systems, not because his players believe in themselves, because they don't. Anytime someone makes a minor mistake he automatically yanks them out and chews them out like they are not even human. It's amazing how well Bradley has gotten, despite being one of Tubby's most hated players. He's a confidence killer; there's no denying that.
> 
> His recruiting is decent, but he's really only recruited 2 nba players; Tayshaun is a very good roleplayer, and Bogans is a decent bench player on the worst team in the league. He's not bad, but he's not on the level of what other elite schools do.


You can't say you know his motivational skills unless you've been with the team, and nobody on this board has. Young teams occasionally have a tendency to play down to the competition, and our team this year had problems with that. How do you know they don't believe in themselves? You can't say that for sure. Have you talked to them extensively about how they feel about themselves after every game? Rajon Rondo's old high school coach adressed this exact thing in an article by the Herald Leader towards the beginning of the season. I think it was after the first game against Vanderbilt. Tubby doesn't "hate" anybody. Bradley had the absolute worst shot selection of the freshmen when he first got here. It took him a while to realize that this wasn't high school, and until he realized that these crappy shots weren't going to fall, he was going to get his *** chewed out, and deservingly so. Since then, he's improved tremendously, and especially in our last game and the game against Utah. you could see his confidence skyrocket. He loves Tubby and openly admits it and loved him when he visited Tubby's house when we were recruiting him. If Tubby was destroying his confidence, he wouldn't be here and would be a terrible cancer to this team. 

In 2002-2003, did we play like we were supposed to lose every game? Save me the Marquette game, I know all about it. We blew out #1 Florida, and if you've seen the highlight video, you see what they did to pump themselves up and warm up. Team effort, and we blow them out. They were overrated, I know, but if we played like we were supposed to lose every game, wouldn't we have lost just because we were intimidated by that big #1 by their name? Then we beat Vanderbilt by, what, 62 points? That's not exactly playing like we're supposed to lose those games. Just 2 examples.

I do have a problem with one thing you mentioned: I HATE how any small mistake a player makes, Tubby is going to bench them. Mistakes are going to happen and they know when they've screwed up, so why punish them even more? Let them play, especially when they've been playing well.

His recruiting has been pretty great. He recruited Tayshaun Prince (McD's AA), Keith Bogans (McD's AA), Rashaah Carruth (McD's AA - left team/kicked off -- team cancer), Jason Parker (McD's AA - great potential, but laziness forced Tubby to ask him to leave), Marvin Stone (worst hands in college basketball -- tranferred to UL, thankfully), and Antwain Barbour (out of JUCO -- regarded as the best JUCO player the year he came out). Add Rajon Rondo, Joe Crawford, Randolph Morris, and Ramel Bradley to that list, and he's had a pretty solid recruiting streak since he's been here. That one year, though, "Team Turmoil", was definitley a growing experience for Tubby as a coach. That's the reason our recruiting class after 2002-2003 wasn't so great. Tubby didn't risk recruiting more high school superstars with big egos while we would have plenty of experienced seniors like Cliff Hawkins, Gerald Fitch, and Erik Daniels. Save me what they do in the NBA. What the players do in the NBA doesn't have much to do with how Tubby recruits.


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

UKfan4Life said:


> Rondo topping 85 steals next season? Phew, I don't know. He had an insane season defensively and a very stellar one for a freshman.


If you ask me, Rondo struggles to accomplish more than Cliff Hawkins ever did until he finds that jumper. Not much a guy can do on offense when he can't shoot, or drive because people are playing off of him. He showed signs of it late in the year (Cincy), but he needs to force defenders to play up on him before he can be truly elite. However, I love the defense, love the long arms, and think he's got a true PG mentality. Hopefully Tubby turns him loose a bit more next year. 



> Our freshmen are going to be so good next year, but without Chuck, we're going to suffer at the PF spot unless we can get Uche Echefu.


I was wondering about this. Tubby is in the almost unheard of position of having 3 true C's with legit size that all deserve PT. Do you see Tubby going with the Twin towers quite a bit next season (Morris playing a lot of 4), or do Alleyne and Orbzut continue to get spotty PT? If Tubby goes with 1 C on the floor at a time, that would leave a Sheray Thomas, or a maybe even Bobby Perry to play some combo. Don't know if that would work, and I don't think you guys are getting Uche...


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Funny thing is, at Tulsa, Tubby's teams always played fast, but in Kentucky, they are such a strong defensive team. I don't like Kentucky, because of it's fanbase for the most part and if Tubby left I wouldn't be surprised. He's a fantastic basketball coach and a class act, but the commonwealth has nothing but UK basketball, so of course they want to win every year. Delusional.


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## Pan Mengtu (Jun 18, 2004)

I don't think most people realize how awful of a jumpshooter Rondo is. Think about the low post center who steps back and attempts a three once a year when no body is on him, and it barely hits the rims. That's exactly how Rondo shoots; just not even close, and that's not a stretch at all. I can't think of any guards, on any level, that are as bad of a jumpshooter as he is.

No way is he going to be better than Hawkins. Hawkins was a lot more naturally gifted. The only thing wrong with him was consistency.


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## Pan Mengtu (Jun 18, 2004)

Jonathan Watters said:


> I was wondering about this. Tubby is in the almost unheard of position of having 3 true C's with legit size that all deserve PT. Do you see Tubby going with the Twin towers quite a bit next season (Morris playing a lot of 4), or do Alleyne and Orbzut continue to get spotty PT? If Tubby goes with 1 C on the floor at a time, that would leave a Sheray Thomas, or a maybe even Bobby Perry to play some combo. Don't know if that would work, and I don't think you guys are getting Uche...


I'd go with twin towers of Orbzut and Morris. Morris isn't a great rebounder so Orbzut's job would basically just be to box out and grab every board. Bobby Perry is a decent backup PF, he can hit a midranger jumper, so I think they'll be fine. Hayes is popular, but easily replaceable. The only thing they'll miss is his vocal leadership; he was really nothing more than a roleplayer on the court.


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## UKfan4Life (Mar 5, 2003)

Jonathan Watters said:


> If you ask me, Rondo struggles to accomplish more than Cliff Hawkins ever did until he finds that jumper. Not much a guy can do on offense when he can't shoot, or drive because people are playing off of him. He showed signs of it late in the year (Cincy), but he needs to force defenders to play up on him before he can be truly elite. However, I love the defense, love the long arms, and think he's got a true PG mentality. Hopefully Tubby turns him loose a bit more next year.


Well, Cliff is unquestionably the better man-to-man, body-to-body defender. It'll be hard to ever find a better defender than Cliff in that sense, but when it comes to stealing passes and ocasionally ripped an opponent's dribble, it's hard to find any players like Rajon in that sense at all. 

You and Pan are absolutely right, as are anyone who has watched him in the sense that his jumper must improve. Tubby and the staff said that it's all he works on really when he has extra time in practice. But Cliff Hawkins was so inconsistent decision-making wise and also couldn't shoot worth crap his first 2 years at UK. My biggest knock on Cliff was that he would occasionally drive into the lane without knowing what he was doing, leading to turnovers. Rajon has already shown better results in that area than Cliff. 

Rajon also has a knack for creating his own shots in the lane. They are some crazy *** shots, sure, but that's his game. He's been shooting those kind of shots since high school, and all you have to do is look at his FG% and you can see he makes them more often than not (before the game against MSU, he was shooting 71% from the floor in the tourney). His FT shooting still needs work, but it has made pretty big strides since he first came here.

There's a feature article on rajon Rondo from a week or two ago in the Cats Pause where Rajon said that Tubby "turned him loose". He said it was all about he and Tubby "seeing eye-to-eye" and him learning the offense and adjusting to the college game more. Tubby probably still has a bit of a leash on him, but we do have a play exclusively for Rajon where we either isolate for him or someone sets pick for him at the top of the key. Next year he will be even more "free" than he already is.

He should be much better than Cliff Hawkins, IMO, by the time he leaves here. He's going to continue working on that jumper and it will start falling consistently sometime. Once that happens, watch out.




> I was wondering about this. Tubby is in the almost unheard of position of having 3 true C's with legit size that all deserve PT. Do you see Tubby going with the Twin towers quite a bit next season (Morris playing a lot of 4), or do Alleyne and Orbzut continue to get spotty PT? If Tubby goes with 1 C on the floor at a time, that would leave a Sheray Thomas, or a maybe even Bobby Perry to play some combo. Don't know if that would work, and I don't think you guys are getting Uche...


No, I don't see him going with both Alleyne and Lukasz at the same time next season unless the match-up with the other team calls for it. Alleyne is simply not mobile enough to play alongside Woo. I think Alleyne will continue to get spotty PT unless he continues to work hard in school (his grades are why his PT decreased mid-way through the season) and Woo will probably step up and be called on for physical play and rebounds (like Pan said).

I hope we see more games from Morris next year like we saw out of him this year versus Cincy. That was his best game of the season, IMO, and he had a very good scoring game against MSU last night. 

Had Sheray not had the brain tumor surgery earlier this year, I honestly believe he would have played a very big role this year. He was starting to come along at the end of last season, but that tumor set him back a whole lot.

Bobby is a SF converted to PF. He's still learning the position, but he will asked of a lot more next year than he was this year. He had a good game in a losing effort against Kansas this year and he can become a consistent outside threat.



> I can't think of any guards, on any level, that are as bad of a jumpshooter as he is.


I can. Jihad "5-17" Muhammad.



> No way is he going to be better than Hawkins. Hawkins was a lot more naturally gifted. The only thing wrong with him was consistency.


Hm. I'm a little surprised by this comment. Not in a bad way, but Cliff was one of those guys where everyone questioned why the hell Tubby bothered recruiting him. He was heading to New Mexico State and was known as an offensive engima coming out of high school. I would think someone like you, of all people, were angry that Tubby would go after someone who wasn't highly regarded in the least bit and then call him more naturally gifted than a McD's AA. Plus, Steve Smith, Oak Hill's coach, coached both Cliff and Rajon, and calls Rajon probably the best PG he's ever had at Oak Hill. Take it for what it's worth, but IMO, Rajon is going to be MUCH better than Cliff by the time he's done here.


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## Pan Mengtu (Jun 18, 2004)

Cliff was a ridiculously good playmaker for the college level. He has some games, as early as his sophmore year, where he looked like a short Magic Johnson out there, no joke. He can match Rondo at everything, and was a good jumpshooter on top of it. The only thing was there were times, for months at a time, where he would just not play well. He would just look like a completely different player who would just set up the offense and then become irrelevant. When he was allowed, and took, control, he was outstanding. I don't think Rondo can match him just for that reason. Rondo really is only a good slasher for his own shot, I've never seen him do anything special with penetrate and dishing.


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## UKfan4Life (Mar 5, 2003)

Pan Mengtu said:


> Cliff was a ridiculously good playmaker for the college level. He has some games, as early as his sophmore year, where he looked like a short Magic Johnson out there, no joke. He can match Rondo at everything, and was a good jumpshooter on top of it. The only thing was there were times, for months at a time, where he would just not play well. He would just look like a completely different player who would just set up the offense and then become irrelevant. When he was allowed, and took, control, he was outstanding. I don't think Rondo can match him just for that reason. Rondo really is only a good slasher for his own shot, I've never seen him do anything special with penetrate and dishing.


He had his great games, but man, as you put it, he was so inconsistent. He couldn't shoot worth crap in his first 2 years. I got tired of saying and reading "Cliff can't shoot, he has to learn to shot, blah blah blah". He improved his junior year and his senior year, but still wasn't the best.

Obviously Cliff in his senior year is better than Rajon in his freshman year, but as long as Rajon keeps adjusting and improving, he will be penetrating and dishing like he did in high school. He showed flashes of being able to be a great penetrator and disher in the lane, as evidenced against Cincy and Vanderbilt (as games that stand out the most).

He still has a long ways to go, but he's already a very capable PG as a young freshman. He's got nowhere to go but up.


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## UKFan33 (Sep 25, 2004)

Very tough loss to swollow, but did anyone expect us to reach it this far earlier in the season? After losing three starters in Cliff, Erik, and Fitch, then losing our best bench player in Barbour who also started a few games, I myself didn't think we'd do as good as we did.

Rondo getting those 2 quick fouls in the beginning hurt the way we ran our offense, but Ramel did a good job stepping up and making thing happen. Azubuike just didn't come to play on that day, but next year we're going to be a team to be reckon with!


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