# Yahoo Fantasy Basketball: Live Draft Is Tonight!



## loyalty4life (Sep 17, 2002)

T-Minus seven hours and counting! :wait: 

Make sure that if you are in the league to be there *10 minutes before the draft starts at 7:20*. That way you will have plenty of time to make it in the draft. You will see a link that says "Enter Live Draft!" on this page:

http://basketball.fantasysports.yahoo.com/nba/show?page=leaguehome&lid=8979

Also, do you see where it says near the top "An Enter Live Draft link will appear on this page [Test your system]. Please arrive ten minutes early as your draft will start promptly at the assigned time." 

Press Test Your System to make sure that you can get into the draft successfully.

That's about all there is to it. If you have any questions, let me know.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

If you're on a dial-up, in particular, testing your system earlier in the day would be a good idea. I don't know what system they use, but if your computer doesn't pass the test, you might need to download something so modem users who only arrive 10 minutes before the draft might not have time to get it all straightened out in time.

Ed O.


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## DariusMiles23 (Aug 29, 2003)

Does someone wanna right down who drafts who for the people who arent doing the league?


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BlazerShorty990</b>!
> Does someone wanna right down who drafts who for the people who arent doing the league?


I think that, although there is a message board on the league Yahoo site, there will be some spillover here, since there are so many posters involved and I know that I would be a bit interested if I weren't playing.

So, in other words: yes. 

Ed O.


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## HOWIE (Dec 30, 2002)

HOWIES HOOPSTERS are rumored to be picking...................with their first pick in the draft!

STAY TUNED!


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## Backboard Cam (Apr 29, 2003)

I'm pretty sure it's possible to post a link here to the Draft Results page, so anyone that wants to can see it.


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## SLAM (Jan 1, 2003)

Is this forum also the appropriate place to do our league trashtalking? :devil: 

(Not that a skinny white kid raised in Scio, OR knows how to talk trash.)


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>SLAM</b>!
> 
> (Not that a skinny white kid raised in Scio, OR knows how to talk trash.)


You're from Scio? We used to play against Scio in high school (I went to Colton). Small state, I guess 

About talking trash here: I'm all for it... making an OT thread might be a good idea. The bboard system on the Yahoo page isn't quite at this level technology-wise.

Ed O.


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## SLAM (Jan 1, 2003)

Ed O.,

Interesting. I didn't picture you from a small town. I've never been to Colton, although I know it's out past Mollala somewhere. I grew up on a farm a few miles outside of Scio, but I went to the Stayton schools. My parents sold the farm 2+ years ago and moved away to France (my younger sister and brother also left for France), so I rarely have a reason to drive through Scio anymore. If you like working dogs however, there's a great national sheepdog competition (along with the Lamb & Wool fair) that takes place every 3rd weekend in May.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>SLAM</b>!
> Ed O.,
> 
> Interesting. I didn't picture you from a small town.


Me either, not with all his fancy book-learning that puts us all to shame.

I can barely understand most of his posts, they're so lawyerly and sophisteecated.


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## Storyteller (Dec 31, 2002)

Pssst...Hey, you...over here...

I hear you're drafting a fantasy team tonight...

Well, I got a piece of advice for you, bub....don't take Nick Collison. Trust me on this. Now get movin'.


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## BlayZa (Dec 31, 2002)

how many rounds are there ?


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## HOWIE (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BlayZa</b>!
> how many rounds are there ?


18 I think, every team gets one pick per round?


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>HOWIE</b>!
> 
> 18 I think, every team gets one pick per round?


I believe there are 13 rounds. 18 teams. 234 players.

Woo hoo.

Ed O.


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## Backboard Cam (Apr 29, 2003)

15 players- 

13 active
2 bench
2 IR


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## Storyteller (Dec 31, 2002)

Well, as an observer who just looked at the first three rounds, my votes for:

Biggest steal: Baron Davis at #43
Biggest reach: Shane Battier at #38

Just my opinion.....


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## Storyteller (Dec 31, 2002)

5 Rounds finished....90 picks made so far....

And nobody has taken Big Z....

He's the only man left in the Green Room, poor guy.  

You can practically see it in his eyes - "C'mon, somebody pick me!"


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## Storyteller (Dec 31, 2002)

Illgauskas finally goes at #97. To Ed O., no less.

The Green Room is now empty. But everyone is looking for those sleeper picks (can you say "Rafer Alston"?)....


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## Storyteller (Dec 31, 2002)

Round 10 had its surprises....

Eddie House taken at #166
Glen Rice (he of no team) taken at #172
Anthony Mason (he who is contemplating retirement) at #173


And Rafer Alston is still available....probably sitting nervously near the phone somewhere....


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## gambitnut (Jan 4, 2003)

How many Blazers have been taken?


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## Storyteller (Dec 31, 2002)

9 Blazers have been taken in the first 13 rounds:

Wallace
Wells
Randolph
Anderson
Stoudamire
Davis
Woods
Patterson
McInnis

[This in the order in which they were drafted]


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## Backboard Cam (Apr 29, 2003)

draft results


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## Storyteller (Dec 31, 2002)

Congratulations to *hennessy* for picking up Rafer Alston with pick #220.

:clap:


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>So Cal Blazer Fan</b>!
> Congratulations to *hennessy* for picking up Rafer Alston with pick #220.
> 
> :clap:


Well, I managed to avoid picking up that "fringe player", but I did get the "stiff" Michael Bradley. I did NOT get Mamadou N'diaye, though, so of the three players I have disparaged in the last month I only drafted one of them 

Ed O.


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## FB (Dec 31, 2002)

Man....with so many teams the draft seemed really weak past the first 3-4 picks. I guess looking at the teams it's not really that bad, but I was sitting there thinking my team really sucked.

Guess it's just that the league I was in last year had only 8 teams and I ended up with a real killer lineup.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

Does anyone seem much stronger or much weaker than the majority to anyone?


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## BlayZa (Dec 31, 2002)

man how sad is that , i missed the 1st 4 rounds and could have taken melo , but no PC picked Brent Barry for me - thanks yahoo!

im actually kinda happy with my team though

kobe bryant
demond mason
damon stoudamire
brent barry
eduardo najera
karl malone
jim jackson
bryon russell
brad miller
michael olowakandi
penny hardaway
dikembe mutumbo
antonio mcdyess
moochie norris
and rafer alston

heres hoping the dyess rumors are true and he gets back to full health , if he does that is the my best pick , being in the 8th round.

this would be fun to watch ...

rafer , kobe , mason , mcdyess , kandi


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BlayZa</b>!
> man how sad is that , i missed the 1st 4 rounds and could have taken melo , but no PC picked Brent Barry for me - thanks yahoo!


Barry's way more valuable in fantasy basketball than 'Melo is going to be (this year, I mean)... Yahoo knew what was best for your team!



Ed O.
edited to add parenthetical


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

Here is my team, with a few thoughts:

PG: Williams, Jason (3) 
SG: Allen, Ray (1)
G: Artest, Ron (4) 
G: Maggette, Corey (7) 
SF: Stojakovic, Peja (2) 
PF: Marshall, Donyell (5) 
F: Kukoc, Toni (8)
F: Giricek, Gordan (9)
C: Ilgauskas, Zydrunas (6)
C: Skinner, Brian (11)
Util: Radmanovich, Vlad (10)
Util: Smith, Joe (12) 
Util: Bradley, Michae (13)l

Bench: Hill, Grant (14)
Bench: Jacobsen, Casey (15)

Overall: Pretty good. I've never played with 18 teams before and I've never played head-to-head in basketball, so it's tough to tell how things are going to work. I got all of my guys later than I had them ranked, and Peja in particular was a good value in the second round.

Strengths: Awesome 3 point shooting and decent scoring. Lots of flexibility with all but 2 positions (lots of guys can play more than 2 positions).

Weaknesses: poor depth at the PG spot (only Jason Williams); poor depth at the Center spot (Z is injury-prone and Skinner might only play 20 minutes a night). Rebounding and blocked shots might be a bit shaky.

Next steps: Look at what PG and C options might be available. I'll probably hold onto what I've got until I see whether my depth at the SG and SF positions is as good as I think it is.

Ed O.


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## Petey (Aug 23, 2002)

Bryant went too high this year. KG went too low. He was actually the best Yahoo fantasy player last year. A SF that grabs 10 boards? Allows you to go a bit weaker at PF and Center... Marion was a good pick too, I would had picked him after Garnett, no way before.

-Petey


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## MJG (Jun 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>So Cal Blazer Fan</b>!
> Well, as an observer who just looked at the first three rounds, my votes for:
> 
> Biggest steal: Baron Davis at #43
> ...


I know nothing about the draft or who's in it, but who picked Battier at 38


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## loyalty4life (Sep 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>MJG</b>!
> 
> 
> I know nothing about the draft or who's in it, but who picked Battier at 38


Swoosh


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## loyalty4life (Sep 17, 2002)

Well Edward, for big men, I have a couple you _might_ be interested in:

Al Harrington
Shaquille O'Neal
Brian Grant
Corliss Williamson


In order of who I would like on your team, it is:

Ray Allen
Peja Stojakovic
Ron Artest 
Gordan Giricek
Zydrunas Ilgauskas

Let me know if something can be arranged!


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## RoseCity (Sep 27, 2002)

I am pretty pleased with my team considering I was not around to pick for myself.

PG - Jamal Crawford(Here's hoping he continues this season like he ended last)
SG - Jerry Stackhouse(FG% might be low but there is not MJ around this season and he has a good PG to back him up now)
G- Boris Diaw (Who knows what happens with him, I would have not picked him if I was able to attend the draft)
G- Antonio Daniels (Another questionable pick of sorts)
SF - Antione Walker (SUPER underrated fantasy player)
PF - Elton Brand (He makes up for areas Walker misses on IE: FG%,Rbs)
F- Shareef Abdur Rahim (Crappy team = good stats)
F - Troy Murphy (See Rahim)
C- Jamal Magloire (Here's hoping he has a breakout year like most expect!)
C - Greg Ostertag (Who else does Utah have besides maybe Clark=PF in the West and Jarron Collins at C...)
Util- Kenny Thomas (He will put up good numbers)
Util- Marcus Camby( Camby was my normal,every year chance pick...PLEASE stay healthy!!)
Util- Mike Sweetney(Another guy I would not have picked but he has a chance for good minutes as long as Mcdyess stays on the bench)
Bench: 
Melvin Ely
John Salmons


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## Petey (Aug 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Loyalty4Life</b>!
> Well Edward, for big men, I have a couple you _might_ be interested in:
> 
> Al Harrington
> ...


If Allen and Peja are on Ed's team, and you guys use percentages, he will be in good shape. That is Shaq's biggest downfall in Fantasy...

-Petey


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## loyalty4life (Sep 17, 2002)

FB - Check your proposals. I am interested in Andre Miller.


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## Backboard Cam (Apr 29, 2003)

Well, looks like preseason trades are already heating up!

I'm open to offers 

PG	Davis, Baron_(PG-NO)	-	_	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
SG	Jones, Eddie_(SG-Mia)	-	_	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
G	Mercer, Ron_(GF-SA)	-	_	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
G	Miller, Mike_(GF-Mem)_	-	_	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
SF	Garnett, Kevin_(SF-Min)_	-	_	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
PF	Gasol, Pau_(PF-Mem)	-	_	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
F	Ratliff, Theo_(FC-Atl)	-	_	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
F	Pollard, Scot_(FC-Ind)	-	_	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
C	Tsakalidis, Jake_(C-Mem)_	-	_	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
C	Haywood, Brendan_(C-Was)	-	_	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
Util	Banks, Marcus_(PG-Bos)	-	_	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
Util	Trybanski, Cezary_(C-Pho)_	-	_	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
Util	Jaric, Marko_(GF-LAC)	-	_	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
Bench	Walton, Luke_(SF-LAL)	-	_	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
Bench	Wilcox, Chris_(PF-LAC)


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## loyalty4life (Sep 17, 2002)

Check your trade proposals, BC.


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## loyalty4life (Sep 17, 2002)

Edward, I made a counter-proposal.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Loyalty4Life</b>!
> Edward, I made a counter-proposal.


#1: You can call me Edward, but you'd be the only one on the Earth to do it.

#2: That is perhaps the worst trade proposal I've ever seen.



Ed O.


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## loyalty4life (Sep 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Ed O</b>!
> 
> 
> #1: You can call me Edward, but you'd be the only one on the Earth to do it.


Edward is a good name. More people should address you as that.




> #2: That is perhaps the worst trade proposal I've ever seen.


Have any better ideas? Let me know! 




>


Ah, a wise guy, eh? :devil: 




> Ed O.


I believe you mean Edward O.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

hehe..I wasn't even there and I got Tim Duncan with the #1 pick..

har har har har har haaaaar


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## HOWIE (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Hap</b>!
> hehe..I wasn't even there and I got Tim Duncan with the #1 pick..
> 
> har har har har har haaaaar


Must be nice picking 4th instead of 15th! :upset:


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>HOWIE</b>!
> 
> 
> Must be nice picking 4th instead of 15th! :upset:


I thought I had the 1st pick, not the 4th?


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## HOWIE (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Hap</b>!
> 
> 
> I thought I had the 1st pick, not the 4th?


Oh, I had you as the wrong person, You are the team "Enter team name here"? Talk about being a lucky dog! :grinning:


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## loyalty4life (Sep 17, 2002)

Hap, I'm interested in Derek Anderson... 

What do you want for him?

PS- Go on AIM if you want to talk...


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## Samuel (Jan 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Loyalty4Life</b>!
> Hap, I'm interested in Derek Anderson...
> 
> What do you want for him?
> ...


why in god's name would you want DA?


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## HOWIE (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>tblazrdude</b>!
> 
> 
> why in god's name would you want DA?


Look at his screen name and rethink your question.


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## Samuel (Jan 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>HOWIE</b>!
> 
> 
> Look at his screen name and rethink your question.


yeah, but still. He's either going to get pushed to the bench, or the 1, where he'll be so fatigued from guarding quicker guys that he won't be able to score points.


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## HOWIE (Dec 30, 2002)

I was hoping to nab a Center in the early rounds, but I got caught up in the power forward selections. Still I feel that Dale Davis is going to do a decent job for me this season.

*PG Francis, Steve (G-Hou) * (1st pick)
*SG Hamilton, Richard (GF-Det) * (5th pick)
*SF Milicic, Darko (F-Det) * (6th pick)
*PF Wallace, Rasheed (PF-Por) * (2nd pick)
*C Davis, Dale (FC-Por) * (7th pick)


G Bibby, Mike (PG-Sac) (3rd pick)
G Jackson, Stephen (GF-Atl) (8th pick) 
F Lynch, George (GF-NO) (13th pick)
F Stoudemire, Amare (PF-Pho) (4th pick) 
C Williams, Aaron (FC-NJ) (12th pick)
Util House, Eddie (SG-LAC) (10th pick) waived 
Util Buckner, Greg (SG-Phi) (14th pick)
Util Kaman, Chris (C-LAC) (15th pick)
Bench Bowen, Bruce (SF-SA) (11th pick)
Bench Piatkowski, Eric (GF-Hou) (9th pick)


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

I will not be entertaining trades!


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## loyalty4life (Sep 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Hap</b>!
> I will not be entertaining trades!


What?? Then what's the point of being in a fantasy league, Hap? That's the best part of it! Taking risks and being bold with a trade.

I probably did at least over 10 trades last year. It's all about perfecting your roster, and I was attempting to do that.

I placed second overall out of 16 players. I lost in my last matchup vs. Agent 32 on FanHome, 8-7. :sigh: 

So close!


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## loyalty4life (Sep 17, 2002)

Howie Hoopawitz,

We need to talk on AIM about a possible trade. I think I have a good trade idea for you.


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## FB (Dec 31, 2002)

I don't get why you're so trade happy....why didn't you just put more thought into your draft?


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## loyalty4life (Sep 17, 2002)

SLAM, check your offers.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

Jermaine O'Neal and Bobby Jackson for Al Harrington and Jason Richardson?

That's a trade that was really made? If that happened in the real NBA, the commissioner would strike it down. Amazing.  

I'd sure like to hear the rationale for that one.


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## BlayZa (Dec 31, 2002)

i dont think ill be trading , im happy with my team and i dont see any real point in trading just cause i can.


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## loyalty4life (Sep 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BlayZa</b>!
> i dont think ill be trading , im happy with my team and i dont see any real point in trading just cause i can.


The point of a fantasy league is to take risks and trade. That really is the best part, and I enjoy it a lot. 

If you don't trade, you really limit yourself with many possibilities that will be worth it if you take the time to plan out a trade or two.


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## loyalty4life (Sep 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Minstrel</b>!
> Jermaine O'Neal and Bobby Jackson for Al Harrington and Jason Richardson?
> 
> That's a trade that was really made? If that happened in the real NBA, the commissioner would strike it down. Amazing.
> ...


Here's my post I made in the league about the trade you are talking about:



> Richardson had some good numbers last year: 16 5 and 3 a game. And that was WITH Antawn Jamison and Gilbert Arenas. With only NVE and Richardson sharing the ball on the court (and maybe Murphy a little bit), expect way bigger numbers with Richardson.
> 
> Jackson vs. Harrington. Al is the bigger (and I believe) better player. Jackson did well last year because of Bibby's injury. This year he might not do so well. Also, he's a backup. Harrington is a starter I believe, and will get good minutes every game.
> 
> Overall, I might have gotten the better deal, but I gave up some very good players as well.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

I think that the Jermaine-for-Richardson deal was ridiculous, too.

Consider that Paul Pierce had been given up to get Jermaine, and then Jermaine was traded for Richardson... Pierce was drafted #11 in the first round (justifiably) and Richardson was taken #75 (in the fifth round).

Granted, draft position's not everything, but I don't really understand why anyone would want to give up a 6th Rounder (Bobby Jackson) for a 9th Rounder (Al Harrington) to drop from Paul Pierce to Jason Richardson over the course of 24 hours.

It's these types of obviously unfair deals that skew a league early on in the season, and I don't like what I'm seeing so far.

There's normally a waiting period on trades, too, so the league owners can protest deals, but it seems like that's not really being used in this league for some reason.

Ed O.


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## FB (Dec 31, 2002)

There is a waiting period of 3 days but it can be processed immediately by the league commissioner....

3 guesses as to who that is...


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## RoseCity (Sep 27, 2002)

I kinda figured this might be a problem this year.


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## Backboard Cam (Apr 29, 2003)

The League commisioner can push trades through, skipping the waiting period.

{edit- that's what PB just said. )


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Ed O</b>!
> It's these types of obviously unfair deals that skew a league early on in the season, and I don't like what I'm seeing so far.


Exactly. Due to a deal that makes absolutely no sense, one team is suddenly miles better than all the others from the start.

Assuming everyone else uses some common sense in their trades, only luck with injuries or surprising break-out years gives anyone else a chance.

I don't like the fact that there was no protest period given, which is standard in Yahoo leagues. Trades *that* bad make the game much less fun.


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## BlayZa (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Loyalty4Life</b>!
> 
> 
> The point of a fantasy league is to take risks and trade. That really is the best part, and I enjoy it a lot.
> ...


well i look at it like this , im happy with my draft , i like my guys . sure i could be like you and have made 3 trades already in 2 days , but really i dont care all that much. 

and speaking of which , if what these guys are saying is true ie u being league commish and are pushing all your trades thru with no waiting period (seeing as how the draft was only a few days ago today should be the first day that the transaction can happen) i think thats totally wack. why does it seem whenever u get some 'power' in anything you seem to compromise your position so easily? either play by the rules and with the group consensus or forget it im out , and i feel a lot of others will be also.


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## Swoosh (May 2, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>MJG</b>!
> 
> 
> I know nothing about the draft or who's in it, but who picked Battier at 38




  Damn, I knew I should've been there for the draft (had to go to my aunt's wake)...my team sucks :upset: Damn autodraft. No PG to speak of. My top pick was a good one (Dirk), but the rest were horrible...especially Battier with a third round pick. There were probably at least twenty other guys I would've selected...and Melo as my second pick??? He may turn out to be a good one, but most likely not worth picking in the second round.


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## Nightfly (Sep 24, 2002)

OKay, look guys.

I'm not interested in trading Yao or Eddy Curry. I've had plenty of offers, but unless the deal includes someone like Shaq, I'm not going to consider it.

I'm also not going to trade Randolph, or Kidd, unless I get a good offer...

I need a REAL SG... I already have my PG in Kidd, but I need a real SG, or a real player that can play either PG or SG... Right now I have Aaron McKie as my SG, and I would like to upgrade.

I'm set at SF... Fizer IS going to be the steal of this draft, trust me...

Backboardcams, I'll listen to any deals you might want to make that involve Yao or Curry first, since I kinda (unintentionally) screwed you over in the draft... heh...

Oh yeah, by the way, let's impose the 3 day waiting period on all trades. The more I think about it, the more I like it.

I still can't believe I ****ed up and picked Corrie Blount!! ARG!!!

I waived him with-in seconds of the draft ending!


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## Nightfly (Sep 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Ed O</b>!
> 
> #2: That is perhaps the worst trade proposal I've ever seen.
> 
> ...


Is it worse then Mashburn for Kidd straight up?

heh heh heh...


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## Backboard Cam (Apr 29, 2003)

Is it worse than Jerome Williams for Baron Davis?


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

My biggest question is...WHo got Stackhouse?


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## HOWIE (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Schilly</b>!
> My biggest question is...WHo got Stackhouse?


Not me! I was going to take him too!!!!!


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Schilly</b>!
> My biggest question is...WHo got Stackhouse?


Not me... he'll actually be a pretty valuable player in the league, since he shoots so much and gets a lot of free throws.

Ed O.


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## Petey (Aug 23, 2002)

Isnt his fg% low? Which could hurt too.

-Petey


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Petey</b>!
> Isnt his fg% low? Which could hurt too.


That would definitely hurt... considering how many categories we have in our league (like 15 or something, including FGA and FGM and FTA and FTM) however, he's got some serious value.

Ed O.


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## loyalty4life (Sep 17, 2002)

Fellas,

When I was talking to Epadfield about the trade, I expressed to her that my conscience was bugging me and I thought I might have ripped her off. She said she was fine with the deal, and she liked the players she was getting. 

But, I will take the trade back if it 1) makes the league more fair, and 2) makes the majority happy.


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## Anima (Jun 3, 2003)

Ok, guys I WANTED the trade. I got a good SG that will score like crazy which I needed and I also got rid of one of my 4 PG's who's not going to be as good as he was last year because he wont be starting and getting the playing time he was with Bibby healthy and Harrington is going to get more shots and playing time with Miller in Sac now.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

This is always a tricky thing... having a league totally run like a democracy rarely works, but it's in the community's best interests to make sure that there are no scale-tipping deals.

I don't think, L4L, that you are trying to pull anything over on anyone... maybe letting the full period after trades expire would be a good thing, to remove the thought from people's minds, though.

PERSONALLY, I would say that if 9 teams object in that period, the trade should be nullified... if not, it stands Considering 2 of the teams should presumably not object (the two that participated in the deal), that means that 9 of the 16 owners would have to protest in the 3 day period... that's a high percentage and probably will only happen if people really think it's an unfair deal. (And, in actuality, some owners will almost certainly become inactive over time, which makes getting 9 protests even harder...)

There's just some ambiguity here, and once we establish how we're going to deal with trades (ranging from automatic approval, with no vetoes ever to the equally (IMO) ridiculous notion of having the majority of owners have to approve it to go through) I think that everyone will know what's up and be able to live with it.

That's just my thoughts about process.

About the deal itself: Epadfield, you HAD a guard that scores like crazy in Paul Pierce, and you immediately traded him for Jermaine O'Neal. Which is cool, of course. I don't understand why you'd immediately, though, deal O'Neal for Richardson, who's not nearly the player that Pierce is (and plays the same position). I *certainly* don't want to act like I know how you should run your team, but that sequence seems very strange to me.

Ed O.


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## loyalty4life (Sep 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Epadfield</b>!
> Ok, guys I WANTED the trade. I got a good SG that will score like crazy which I needed and I also got rid of one of my 4 PG's who's not going to be as good as he was last year because he wont be starting and getting the playing time he was with Bibby healthy and Harrington is going to get more shots and playing time with Miller in Sac now.


If you still want Richardson, I can trade him back to you (Just not for O'Neal).


----------



## RoseCity (Sep 27, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Schilly</b>!
> My biggest question is...WHo got Stackhouse?


That would be me, The Dudley's.


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## HOWIE (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>RoseCity</b>!
> 
> 
> That would be me, The Dudley's.


Stealing from HOWIE! :nonono: I was going to take him as a steal in the draft and you beat me to it! :sigh:


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## BlayZa (Dec 31, 2002)

i just dont think the league comm should be pushing through his own trades instantaniously. obviously there is a 3 day period for a reason (trade consideration by other people in the league) we should let the 3 day rule stand and if there are over 50% objection with valid reasoning it should stand ,its not like we need to vote for apporval etc just when we disagree. 

Im not saying L4L is trying to screw anyone but 3 trades in 3 days all approved and rushed thru by... well.. himself. A few people have already expressed concerns with this and judging by past trackrecord its a good idea to start doing this by the book.
If it goes mickey mouse , im out


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## BlazerFanFoLife (Jul 17, 2003)

I think there should be liek a day to let it sit.... i really dont wana wait 3 days for a trade to go threw that is fair... L4L asks the two parties if they are fine w/ the trade befor he lets it threw...


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## BlazerFanFoLife (Jul 17, 2003)

Also i think we can just like use witnesses or sumthing... like if we have 3 ppl ok it from the league or like more then half in 1 day pass the trade threw.... during the seson if i need a player or sumthing i wouldnt wana wait 3 - 4 days to get him on my roster!... yea i think L4L should have a couple witnesses ok it that are in the league no long wait 3 day thingy


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## loyalty4life (Sep 17, 2002)

Whatever the majority decides here will be fine with me.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

The idea, though, is not to protect the two parties who've made a trade... they've obviously OK'd it (although I guess there's a chance that someone could accidentally click "accept"). The 3 days period allows the rest of the league to make sure that they think that the deal is acceptable.

If there's not going to be a wait period, that's cool. But we shouldn't have it be ambiguous. It shouldn't be, IMO, up to a single person (L4L) because he's setting himself up for criticism whether he approves it immediately or waits... 

Ed O.


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## BlayZa (Dec 31, 2002)

easy to say that once you've made the trades eh

im fine with a day , i just dont want any more of this fast tracked trading where nobody knows about it until its been done. whats so hard about that ?


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## HOWIE (Dec 30, 2002)

I think that we have the option to ok trades or not ok them don't we? I have just checked and I am okay with the trades I have seen so far. However, I would be nice to have atleast a day for the trades to take place.

FYI I am in need of a Center people, Dale Davis isn't going to cut it with my squad.


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## BlayZa (Dec 31, 2002)

Howie , yeah its not that actual contents of the trade that makes me worry , that is negotiated privately - its more that the person running out league is fast pacing their own trades - slight conflict of interests no? i mean at least give the people that are taking time to compete in this thing something to be interested in , its things like this that really shouldnt even occur but when they do it just lowers my enthusiasm.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

I think there should either be:

The three day waiting period, before a trade goes through, to allow other teams to protest something that would throw the competitiveness of the league out of whack

or

No wait, but if, within three days after the trade, the majority of teams think it was ruinous, the trade has to be reversed, the way L4L and Epadfield just did.


In the second case, if the deal is fair, you get your players immediately and no problem. If it's not fair, at least there's still a remedy.


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## HOWIE (Dec 30, 2002)

I would rather wait three days for the trade to go through then have to give up a player that I traded for.

Plus it gives us something to look at and talk about.

Jermaine O'neal for Bobby Jackson is a bit of a stretch, but a player like Tim Duncan for Jermaine might go over better in the league. Is Duncan considered a PF/C on this yahoo?


----------



## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>HOWIE</b>!
> 
> Jermaine O'neal for Bobby Jackson is a bit of a stretch, but a player like Tim Duncan for Jermaine might go over better in the league. Is Duncan considered a PF/C on this yahoo?


Yes. You can see the players' position eligibilities by clicking on "available players" and then "taken"... then you can sort by position, and by each player's name is their position...

Ed O.


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## HOWIE (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Ed O</b>!
> 
> 
> Yes. You can see the players' position eligibilities by clicking on "available players" and then "taken"... then you can sort by position, and by each player's name is their position...
> ...


Dang, don't these people know anything? Wallace is only a PF, F he is not listed as a SF or C!!!!!! Their killing me Ed, their killing me!!!!


----------



## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>HOWIE</b>!
> 
> Dang, don't these people know anything? Wallace is only a PF, F he is not listed as a SF or C!!!!!! Their killing me Ed, their killing me!!!!


Sometimes Yahoo will add eligibility to players over the course of the season, so Marko Jaric, for example, will probably become PG eligible since he's the Clippers' starting PG. If Rasheed and ZR start together, one of the two of them (or maybe both) should get the SF eligibility, but there's no predicting when (if) Yahoo will make the addition...

Ed O.


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## HOWIE (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Ed O</b>!
> 
> 
> Sometimes Yahoo will add eligibility to players over the course of the season, so Marko Jaric, for example, will probably become PG eligible since he's the Clippers' starting PG. If Rasheed and ZR start together, one of the two of them (or maybe both) should get the SF eligibility, but there's no predicting when (if) Yahoo will make the addition...
> ...


Gosh I hope they do it sooner than later!


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## loyalty4life (Sep 17, 2002)

Wanker - Check out your trade offers. I sent you a possible trade.


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## mook (Dec 31, 2002)

man, sorry I've been out packing into central idaho on horseback. couldn't find a deer to shoot, but saw some fantastic scenery. my dad got thrown from a horse, which is something I never thought I'd see. It would've been hillarious, except that he's 60 now and getting a busted hip or something in that country would've been a real disaster. Anyway, he's ok. 

Anyhow, I haven't read any of this thread. I'll start from the beginning now and figure out if I'm still allowed to play, even though I missed the draft.


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## mook (Dec 31, 2002)

oh DUUUUUUUUUUUUUDE does my lineup suck. I just logged on, and am faced with the alarming news that my best players are Rashard Lewis and Jason Terry. 

*groan*

oh well. at least I got Peja Drobniak. I am his manjak, and your game smell like bad soup.


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## mook (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Loyalty4Life</b>!
> Wanker - Check out your trade offers. I sent you a possible trade.


Loyalty, my cat Jinkies says that your trade smells like bad soup as well. 

Come on, I have only three players with any real talent, and you want one of them for Jamal Tinsley? Have you no conscience?


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## loyalty4life (Sep 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>theWanker</b>!
> 
> 
> Loyalty, my cat Jinkies says that your trade smells like bad soup as well.
> ...


Christie was on my fantasy team last year, so he has sentimental value. 

What do you want for him?


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## loyalty4life (Sep 17, 2002)

Also, here is a list of players that I am interested in:

Ray Allen
Peja Stojakovic
Zydrunas Ilgauskas
Doug Christie
Vlade Divac
Zach Randolph
Ron Artest
Brian Grant

If you have any of these players, let me know what you want for him...


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## HOWIE (Dec 30, 2002)

How long does it take for a trade reply? Does it time out? I have made two trade offers and sent PM's. If a person declines a trade don't I get a reply from the system saying "No"?


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## Scout226 (Sep 17, 2003)

It looks like I was gone for a few days and missed everything.. I'm guessing I was dropped from the league?


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## loyalty4life (Sep 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Scout226</b>!
> It looks like I was gone for a few days and missed everything.. I'm guessing I was dropped from the league?


You were no where to be found. I'm sorry about that, Scout.


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## Scout226 (Sep 17, 2003)

> You were no where to be found. I'm sorry about that, Scout.




OK, but I'm only an email or IM away.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>HOWIE</b>!
> How long does it take for a trade reply? Does it time out? I have made two trade offers and sent PM's. If a person declines a trade don't I get a reply from the system saying "No"?


No... it sends a "no" when the other owner rejects the offer. Sometimes other owners can be a bit slow, though...

Ed O.


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## HOWIE (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Ed O</b>!
> 
> 
> No... it sends a "no" when the other owner rejects the offer. Sometimes other owners can be a bit slow, though...
> ...


Thanks Ed, I will check in later and see if anyone thought my trades were fair or not.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

I am interested in Paul Pierce, Kobe Bryant (yes, I'm willing to gamble!), or Tracy McGrady and I am dangling Chris Whitney. Honestly, I am!

If interested, please advise.


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## HOWIE (Dec 30, 2002)

Steve Francis for a legit Center. I would like to get this deal done sometime this weekend so I can still sit in front of the TV and watch football this weekend.  

Jermaine O'neal, Yao Ming, or maybe even Brad Miller would be ideal for a Francis type player. Francis can be either a point or shooting guard and he is going to get his points this season. I will consider all offers for Francis! I just need a legit Center to round out my lineup.


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## HOWIE (Dec 30, 2002)

HOWIE trades.....

Steve Francis and Stephen Jackson 

for 

Jermaine O'neal and Kirk Hinrich.

from Jay Blazers.

What do you think about this trade? Mine you that Howie's Hoopsters have Hamilton at SG and Bibby at PG with some backups that are decent.

THOUGHTS?


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>HOWIE</b>!
> 
> THOUGHTS?


I think with Dale's questionable health, HOWIE needed a center, and I think that Jermaine is about as well as one could hope to do for Francis. 

Personally, I like Francis a lot but with so many other weapons I'm not sure he'll get the shots in JVG's offense to be a tip-top fantasy player like has has been.

Good deal both ways, I think.

Ed O.


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## Nightfly (Sep 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Ed O</b>!
> 
> 
> I think with Dale's questionable health, HOWIE needed a center, and I think that Jermaine is about as well as one could hope to do for Francis.
> ...


I agree. If I'm not mistaken, JVG likes to run his offense though a good center. We saw it in NY with Ewing. He's even said that he plans on running the offense through Yao this season.

This is one of the reasons why I have decided not to trade Yao.

But, if someone wanted to offer me a good SG for Eddy Curry, I'm willing to listen...


----------



## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

*With last year's stats*

Hey all

I put together an excel sheet that used the stats from Yahoo along with the rosters (as of tomorrow; the Francis/O'Neal trade hadn't happened, so isn't reflected here), laid them all out in a roto-like fashion, and came up with standings. Now, there are of *of course* some caveats. I'll list a few:

-- these are last year's stats. Stats change. Duh.
-- this is just on a roto basis which gives 18 points for being ranked first in a category and 1 for being last. Big difference from our head-to-head league.
-- I included all of the bench players. Whether all the bench stats would have been captured is another question.
-- some teams don't have full rosters (because they dropped people for some reason, or they made 2-for-1 trades). 
-- some teams have rookies, while others don't. Rookies count as zeroes across the board.
-- a lot of stats are massively positively correlated. FGA and FGM; OReb, DReb and TotReb; etc. So it kinda snowballed in a negative way for those who were weak at certain areas... and since it's all retrospective, no trades to fix the snowballing took place. 

So, without further ado, here are the "standings". Enjoy them for whatever they're worth:

1. Loyal Legion: *206*
2. Ouellette MeWins: *199 *
3. 4-For-Snapper: *191*
4. Swoosh: *187*
5. theWankers Wankers: *180*
6. The Minstrels: *160*
7. Blazer Dudes: *157*
8. RoseCity Dudleys: *156*
9. Saxonguys: *154*
10. Howies Hoopsters: *153*
11. hennessy: *145*
12. Team Name goes here: *129*
13. FBs Ballers: *119*
14. Strawberry Slam: *102*
15. the Backboard Cams: *92*
16. Funky Soul Brothers: *82*
17. Blazers Fans For Lif: *79*
18. JayBlazers: *74*

Well, there it is. Anyone want to explain/talk smack/blame Whitsitt?

Ed O.


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## Backboard Cam (Apr 29, 2003)

COol- great to know how our teams would have done last year.  

I do excel spreadsheets for fantasy hoops all season. Good fun.


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## Backboard Cam (Apr 29, 2003)

BTW- save that spreadsheet and do it again every month or two. I'm sure you would have, but I'd be interested to see the results and compare to the list you just posted.

Just a thought.

BTW 2- someone should post league standings over here every once in a while. It's interesting to check on how things change after transactions or actual player trades/injuries etc. 

I'll try to remember to post standings and some stats here every once in a while.


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## HOWIE (Dec 30, 2002)

Thanks for the heads up on how my team would have done last season. However, I have three rookies on my team this year, did you take into account their college or Europe Basketball stats? 

Just wondering, because my stat line might be of a whole bunch with the stud I got on my roster. Let's just hope that he gets on the court this season!


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>HOWIE</b>!
> Thanks for the heads up on how my team would have done last season. However, I have three rookies on my team this year, did you take into account their college or Europe Basketball stats?


No. Just NBA stats were used. Teams with rookies this year will get more of some stats but probably take hits in the % categories and the TOs.

Ed O.


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## Backboard Cam (Apr 29, 2003)

*Re: With last year's stats*



> Originally posted by <b>Ed O</b>!
> 
> 2. Ouellette MeWins: *199 *
> ...
> ...


Only sice you mentioned it. 

(I only listed "Rank" from Yahoo, which is based on last year's overall stats until this season starts)

Rank.....Player	

8 .....Allen, Ray_(SG-Sea)
17....Stojakovic, Peja_(SF-Sac)	_Rank is overrated- but good for % and 3 categories_
27....Williams, Jason_(PG-Mem) _very overrated, but I like J Will_
49....Artest, Ron_(GF-Ind) _He'll beef up your "hustle" categories, but he might be ranked high at 49_
47....Marshall, Donyell_(F-Chi) _this overrank gives your preseason number a huge boost. Not the 47th best fantasy player in the league)_
79....Ilgauskas, Zydrunas_(C-Cle)	_Will he play as many games as last year? The Rank doesn't care_
102..Kukoc, Toni_(F-Mil)	_He actually ranked pretty high last season even coming off the bench, so maybe. Still though- there are a ton of guys who should be ranked higher_
127..Radmanovic, Vladimir_(PF-Sea)	_Even if you can play him at center, you're using a position that could be used by some guy who is more powerful- so you'll lose "normal" PF/C stats like offensive rebounds and a high FG%_
135..Maggette, Corey_(GF-LAC) _could actually be better than 135_
142..Giricek, Gordan_(GF-Orl)	
160..Skinner, Brian_(FC-Mil)	_..._ 
196..Smith, Joe_(PF-Mil)	
249..Bradley, Michael_(PF-Tor)	
274...Jacobsen, Casey_(GF-Pho)	_do they still let him use a golf cart?_
320...Mohammed, Nazr_(FC-Atl)_

I like your team for this year, but it's overranked. You mentioned up front the "caveats," those pretty much cover the ... wrongness of the preseason ranking.


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## loyalty4life (Sep 17, 2002)

BC, check your trade offers and let me know what you think.


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## Backboard Cam (Apr 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Loyalty4Life</b>!
> BC, check your trade offers and let me know what you think.


Oh, remember you already offered me Jerome Williams for Baron Davis and I rejected it. It was a few days ago.

I'd suggest that you just drop Jerome, there are better FA's available. Williams sucked in a preseason game the other day. 

I don't really know why you think he's worth trading for Baron Davis.


----------



## loyalty4life (Sep 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Backboard Cam</b>!
> 
> 
> Oh, remember you already offered me Jerome Williams for Baron Davis and I rejected it. It was a few days ago.
> ...


He averaged 10 and 10 a game last season. And with Davis' back troubles and whatnot, I thought it could be a decent trade.


----------



## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

*Re: Re: With last year's stats*



> Originally posted by <b>Backboard Cam</b>!
> Only sice you mentioned it.


Let's do this thing. 



> (I only listed "Rank" from Yahoo, which is based on last year's overall stats until this season starts)


Fair enough.



> 8 .....Allen, Ray_(SG-Sea)


I got him at #12 overall. Not a huge bargain, but if he plays at anything like the level he did in Seattle last year, he's going to be better than the 8th-best player.



> 17....Stojakovic, Peja_(SF-Sac)	_Rank is overrated- but good for % and 3 categories_


Peja's great at FG%, 3pt %, 3pt made, FT% and good at FGA, and FGM. He wasn't healthy last year, and he should get off to a great start with Webber out this year. I'd say that he's easily a top 20 fantasy player in our league because he brings up categories that other players that play a lot hurt.



> 27....Williams, Jason_(PG-Mem) _very overrated, but I like J Will_


I don't like him as a player, but as a fantasy player he's very, very good. Lots of 3's at a good percentage. Great assist-to-TO ratio. His FG% stinks, but I've got Allen and Peja to help cancel that out.



> 49....Artest, Ron_(GF-Ind) _He'll beef up your "hustle" categories, but he might be ranked high at 49_


He was #6 in steals last year in spite of missing 13 games. Couple that with solid numbers across the board and GF eligibility and he squeaks into the top 50 in my book.



> 47....Marshall, Donyell_(F-Chi) _this overrank gives your preseason number a huge boost. Not the 47th best fantasy player in the league)_


I don't know if Donyell is top 50 or not, but if he's not he's close. #12 in offensive rebounds. 33 3 pointers made (more than all of the players with more ORebs than him combined). #32 in blocks. #48 in steals. He helps across the board and he's going to get a lot of minutes in Chicago. 



> 79....Ilgauskas, Zydrunas_(C-Cle)	_Will he play as many games as last year? The Rank doesn't care_


I don't know if he'll play in 81 games again... in fact, I doubt it because centers rarely play in that many. But he played in 62 the previous year, and I can live with that for where I got him in the draft. The minutes restrictions on Z have been lifted, which is good for me, too: if he gets hurt, I will replace him. In the mean time, I want to get all the minutes and stats out of him I can.



> 102..Kukoc, Toni_(F-Mil)	_He actually ranked pretty high last season even coming off the bench, so maybe. Still though- there are a ton of guys who should be ranked higher_


I don't know about that. If Toni gets minutes, he'll be a good fantasy player. He was #11 in PF-eligible players in assists in spite of missing 19 games. He's like Antoine Walker light without the horrible FG%.



> 127..Radmanovic, Vladimir_(PF-Sea)	_Even if you can play him at center, you're using a position that could be used by some guy who is more powerful- so you'll lose "normal" PF/C stats like offensive rebounds and a high FG%_
> 
> I don't think he'll be center-eligible, but I think he'll be playing 30 to 35 minutes a night at the 4 spot for the Sonics, and I think he'll be the 3rd leading scorer for Seattle. His rebounding numbers will never be very good, but he is 22 years old and I expect him to take a big step with the numbers this year.
> 
> ...


----------



## Nightfly (Sep 24, 2002)

L4L, do you honestly think I'm going to trade Eddy Curry for Jerome Williams?

I know I offered you Amal McCaskill for Shaq, but that was as a joke. I really hope you weren't serious here...


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## BlayZa (Dec 31, 2002)

lol ^

u mean u dont wanna trade him 

*shock*


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## Backboard Cam (Apr 29, 2003)

Hey L4L- I want to protest the Shaq & Mash for Horry trade. Do I need to send you an email or what?


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## HOWIE (Dec 30, 2002)

Yeah, you wouldn't even move Shaq for Rasheed Wallace, what gives?


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## loyalty4life (Sep 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Backboard Cam</b>!
> Hey L4L- I want to protest the Shaq & Mash for Horry trade. Do I need to send you an email or what?


The trade has been vetoed. You guys can all blame Hap. He offered me the trade.


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## loyalty4life (Sep 17, 2002)

*Ed O, tblazrdude, SLAM and theWanker:*

Check out your trade offers and get back to me.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

can't delete my own post for some reason.

Ed O.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Loyalty4Life</b>!
> 
> The trade has been vetoed. You guys can all blame Hap. He offered me the trade.


Isn't Hap the same guy who dropped Carlos Boozer for no reason, too? (In fact, he still has open slots on his roster.)

Methinks Hap's either sandbagging so far or is a bit confused over how this thing works... 

Ed O.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Ed O</b>!
> 
> 
> Isn't Hap the same guy who dropped Carlos Boozer for no reason, too? (In fact, he still has open slots on his roster.)
> ...


i was trying to trade 1 for 2 Ed.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Hap</b>!
> 
> i was trying to trade 1 for 2 Ed.


Gotcha. You can release a player or players after completing the trade, though. You don't have to release them in advance (same when you pick someone up).

(I'm just playing with you, anyway Hap... please don't take it seriously  .)

Ed O.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Ed O</b>!
> 
> 
> Gotcha. You can release a player or players after completing the trade, though. You don't have to release them in advance (same when you pick someone up).
> ...


I didn't expect to get hosed with 2 free agent sigings like I did.


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## HOWIE (Dec 30, 2002)

So are there any takers for Dale Davis? WIth the addition fo O'neal I can move Davis out for a SF or SG. Anyone?


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## Nightfly (Sep 24, 2002)

Does anybody know who Blazer Dudes is?

Does anybody know if s/he ever checks his/her team?

I proposed a trade a few days ago to this person, and have yet to hear anything at all...

Whoever you are, please check your trade offers. I proposed one that might help us both.


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## Backboard Cam (Apr 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Loyalty4Life</b>!
> 
> 
> The trade has been vetoed. You guys can all blame Hap. He offered me the trade.


You accepted it. 

Let me guess- it was a counter offer when you offered him Jerome Williams for Kenyon Martin?


----------



## Backboard Cam (Apr 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Loyalty4Life</b>!
> *Ed O, tblazrdude, SLAM and theWanker:*
> 
> Check out your trade offers and get back to me.


Hey just for my own amusement, could you guys post those four offers here?


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## loyalty4life (Sep 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Backboard Cam</b>!
> 
> 
> Hey just for my own amusement, could you guys post those four offers here?


And give away my trading ideas and strategies? No thanks. :grinning:


----------



## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Backboard Cam</b>!
> 
> Hey just for my own amusement, could you guys post those four offers here?


For your amusement? Anything.

Matt Harpring for Peja Stojakovic.

It's not the all-time worst deal ever proposed, but there's no reason for me to do it other than to help his team.

I send out some bad trade offers, too, but they're usually meant as an opening expression of interest in a player. In this case, he and I had discussed Peja and he should have known it would take much, much more to get him than Harpring.

Ed O.


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## loyalty4life (Sep 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Ed O</b>!
> 
> 
> For your amusement? Anything.
> ...


I think my reasoning on this trade makes a bit of sense. The Kings have a plethora of scorers on their team, Peja included. The Jazz have really two scorers--Harpring and AK47. Who else is there on the Jazz for Harp to compete with? He's going to get his numbers. The same can be said for Jason Richardson (who I also have), as there's only NVE for him to compete with for scoring. 

Peja has Bibby, Jackson, Miller, Divac, Christie and Webber once he gets get back from his injury. I just want Peja because he's one of my favorite NBA players and I had him on my fantasy team last year.

I thought it was a very fair trade for both sides.


----------



## loyalty4life (Sep 17, 2002)

Also Howie, I can't do the Tinsley for Hinrich trade. But I sent you a counteroffer. Let me know what you think.

Also, I'd like to encourage you guys to send me (and others) a counter-proposal if you could. Perhaps so I could see who you're interested in, and so I could see what you consider a fair deal.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Loyalty4Life</b>!
> 
> Peja has Bibby, Jackson, Miller, Divac, Christie and Webber once he gets get back from his injury.


Peja has had all those people these last few years and still scored like a demon. There's no substantive change this season that should hurt his stats from last year.

And Richardson has to compete with NVE, Murphy and Dunleavy Jr. Murphy is a rising talent at forward and Dunleavy Jr. is going to be given every opportunity to succeed. Unless Richardson takes a major step forward in his development (which he's failed to do so far), his numbers aren't going to increase significantly.

Finally Harpring was very ordinary on the Magic, then had a huge year in Utah. There's a very high possibility that Stockton and Malone opened up a lot of opportunities for Harp, that Kirilenko, alone, cannot. Unless Harpring turns into a guy who's very good at getting his own shot, rather than benefiting from double-teams, his numbers could take a major header without Stock and Mailman. Until he has a nice year without those two, he's a risk.

That's my analysis of what's going on.


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## Nightfly (Sep 24, 2002)

Do proposed trades time out after a certain amount of time?


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

unless a trade is done in jest, can we please try to keep them at least somewhat realistic?

Jalen Rose and crap for Tim Duncan and crap?


don't insult my intelligence.


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## Nightfly (Sep 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Hap</b>!
> unless a trade is done in jest, can we please try to keep them at least somewhat realistic?
> 
> Jalen Rose and crap for Tim Duncan and crap?
> ...


Is this another insane L4L trade proposal?

God man, settle down with the trading crap.

I'll tell you right now, if you offer me another stupid trade like Jerome Williams for Eddy Curry or something like that, I'm not going to pay much attention to any more proposals you give me.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>HearToTemptYou</b>!
> Do proposed trades time out after a certain amount of time?


Nope, they remain perpetually until one side cancels / rejects it.


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## loyalty4life (Sep 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Hap</b>!
> unless a trade is done in jest, can we please try to keep them at least somewhat realistic?
> 
> Jalen Rose and crap for Tim Duncan and crap?
> ...


It was Harpring and Rose for Duncan and Van Horn. I think it could have been a fair trade..


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## mook (Dec 31, 2002)

actually, the trades L4L has offered to me have been fairly reasonable. Jamal Tinsley or Derek Anderson for Doug Christie. 

Well, the DA one is lousy, but Tinsley actually caught my attention for a minute. Then I remembered I have a decent array of PG's, and the novelty wore off quickly. 

the problem is that theWankers Wankers feature: 

PG Terry, Jason (G-Atl)
SG Christie, Doug (SG-Sac) 
G Williams, Alvin (PG-Tor) 
G Fisher, Derek (PG-LAL)
SF Lewis, Rashard (SF-Sea) 
PF Brown, P.J. (PF-NO) 
F Laettner, Christian (PF-Was) 
F Anderson, Shandon (SF-NY)
C Drobnjak, Predrag (C-LAC) 
C Campbell, Elden (FC-Det) 
Util Peeler, Anthony (SG-Sac) SGGUtilBench
Util Lenard, Voshon (SG-Den) SGGUtilBench
Util Lue, Tyronn (PG-Orl) PGGUtilBench
Bench Strickland, Erick (SG-Mil) 
Bench Rebraca, Zeljko (C-Det) 

you'll note a team startlingly devoid of any Shaqs, Duncans, Webbers, Garnetts or even Wallaces. Yahoo chose for me a team of "oh, what team is that guy on now anyway" players. this is the Al Gore of rosters. this is the low REM indigestion version of a fantasy team. in fact, if this fantasy team were on fantasy island, Tattoo would not waste more than one "the plane" on it and Mr Rourke would yawn his way into a very un-ironic ending where the pagan God of Mild Disinterest manifests himself as a middle aged jewish man who sneezes on my men, resulting in a minor cough that nobody really cares about. 

in other words, this is a very lethargic, uninteresting fantasy team who will need some serious breast implants from a big time trader before I will rise to take the bait, like a pudgy carp lingering along the muddy bank of the Snake River nibbling on drowned rotting varmints. 

i'm looking for that sweet, silicone deal which can make me rise above the carrion and snatch at a hope of arousing Rourke-angering, attention-grabbing, REM-worthy interest. 

if there are too many mixed metaphors in this post, I look to Hap to clarify my point for me.


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## HOWIE (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Loyalty4Life</b>!
> *Also Howie, I can't do the Tinsley for Hinrich trade.* But I sent you a counteroffer. Let me know what you think.
> 
> Also, I'd like to encourage you guys to send me (and others) a counter-proposal if you could. Perhaps so I could see who you're interested in, and so I could see what you consider a fair deal.


So are you trying to devert attention to me? :whatever: Your first offer was a joke Loyalty4life (Tinsley for Bibby), as for your counter offer, if I have this right was a little better (Derek Anderson & Jalen Rose for Dale Davis & Jermaine O'neal) . First off you have only two players that I would be interested in. Shaquille O'Neal and Jamal Mashburn of which I am not totally sold on either for this Fantasy game.

I counter offered you a player that was the 7th pick in the draft who is going to play on a team that he is going to see some decent playing time, for a point guard that is a starter because the other point guards are injured. Bibby should be a stat monster this season. Why would I trade him for a lesser player? *Loyalty4Life I don't mean to vent on you, but your trades don't help me or even make sense for me to consider.* 

Now I have a problem, I have three players that were draft picks this year.


Darko Milicic 2nd pick
Chris Kaman 6th pick
Kirk Hinrich 7th pick

Now if this was real life I would be sitting pretty, but I feel I need to unload one of this guys. Milicic I am hanging on to, but the other two are on the block people.

Loyalty4life I was going to offer you a deal of Amare Stoudemire, Dale Davis, and Chris Kaman for Jamal Mashburn and Derek Anderson, but you probally would have turned that down, but when I tried to send it to you a funny thing happened. The system told me that you have exceeded your trade limit. :laugh:


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## BlayZa (Dec 31, 2002)

lol some of these trades are a joke and its wearing pretty thin imo 

L4L said i wasnt playing in the spirit of fantasy league cause I said im happy with my team/draft and that im not really looking to trade but judging by the *warm* reception u are getting for exemplifying the *real* idea behind fantasy bball , im glad im the exact opposite.


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## HOWIE (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BlayZa</b>!
> lol some of these trades are a joke and its wearing pretty thin imo
> 
> L4L said i wasnt playing in the spirit of fantasy league cause I said im happy with my team/draft and that im not really looking to trade but judging by the *warm* reception u are getting for exemplifying the *real* idea behind fantasy bball , im glad im the exact opposite.


Which team are you? Maybe you might be interested in one of my players?


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## BlayZa (Dec 31, 2002)

im hennessy

d.stoudamire
k. bryant
b. barry
d. mason
e. najera
k. malone
j. jackson
b. russell
b. miller
m. olowakandi
a. hardaway
d. mutumbo
r. alson
a. mcdyess
m. norris


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## HOWIE (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BlayZa</b>!
> im hennessy
> 
> d.stoudamire
> ...


Decent team, are you watching the Kobe pre-trial and crossing your fingers? Most of your team is work horses and the only reason I would trade any of them would be for a better player, your squad should do decent, providing Kobe doesn't miss any of the season.

I also like my squad and I am waiting for a player to be added off waivers tonight at 11:59 tonight. Here is my squad.

Bibby, Mike (PG-Sac) 
Hamilton, Richard (GF-Det) 
Piatkowski, Eric (GF-Hou) 
Lynch, George (GF-NO) 
Bowen, Bruce (SF-SA) 
Wallace, Rasheed (PF-Por) 
Stoudemire, Amare (PF-Pho) 
Jones, Jumaine (SF-Bos) 
Williams, Aaron (FC-NJ) 
Kaman, Chris (C-LAC) 
Davis, Dale (FC-Por) 
O'Neal, Jermaine (FC,Ind) 
Hinrich, Kirk (PG-Atl) 
Bench Milicic, Darko (F-Det) 
Bench Buckner, Greg (SG-Phi) droping for Ward, Charlie (PG, GS)

I can make some more moves, but I like the squad.


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## BlayZa (Dec 31, 2002)

yeah i took a few chances on kobe , dyess , and mutumbo at the time .
as far as the trial , im not bugged either way - if he goes down we dont have to play him , if not my team is better  im easy either way


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## loyalty4life (Sep 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>HOWIE</b>!
> 
> Loyalty4life I was going to offer you a deal of Amare Stoudemire, Dale Davis, and Chris Kaman for Jamal Mashburn and Derek Anderson, but you probally would have turned that down


Hmm... That sounds like a reasonable trade, but I can't give you a definite answer now. I'll keep the trade in mind.




> The system told me that you have exceeded your trade limit. :laugh:


I can still trade, I just can't get proposals when I have five on the table at one time.


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## loyalty4life (Sep 17, 2002)

Also Ed O, that counter-offer you sent me is a decent one. Let me think about it and I'll get back to you.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Loyalty4Life</b>!
> Also Ed O, that counter-offer you sent me is a decent one. Let me think about it and I'll get back to you.


I thought it would be at least something to think about. It's the kind of deal that makes me nervous proposing in case you say yes... you know?

Ed O.


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## loyalty4life (Sep 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Ed O</b>!
> 
> 
> I thought it would be at least something to think about. It's the kind of deal that makes me nervous proposing in case you say yes... you know?
> ...


Ed O, you tempted me too much. I accepted your deal. Z and Peja were on my fantasy team last year, and it was hard saying no! 

Thanks for the deal.


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## Backboard Cam (Apr 29, 2003)

I gotta say...

... actually, I like that trade.  Seems fair for both teams. Ed gets to pick up a FA when the trade goes through.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

Wow...Stojakovic was ranked higher than Shaq O'Neal last season?

*bizzoggle*


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## loyalty4life (Sep 17, 2002)

Ed hit a weak spot of mine. The Kings are my second favorite team, and the Cavs are third (and yes, I was a Cavs fan before the LeBron James era). Z and Peja are far too tempting for me to pass on the deal.

Besides, rooting against Shaq goes against everything I stand for as a Blazer fan.


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## HOWIE (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Loyalty4Life</b>!
> Ed hit a weak spot of mine. The Kings are my second favorite team, and the Cavs are third (and yes, I was a Cavs fan before the LeBron James era). Z and Peja are far too tempting for me to pass on the deal.
> 
> Besides, *rooting against Shaq goes against everything I stand for as a Blazer fan.*


Um, Loyalty4Life, don't you mean "rooting * for * Shaq?"  

I admit, I like the trade, Shaq isn't a player that is ranked that high for games like this, but Ed was taking a chance on drafting Big "Z" because of health issues. Who knows if he is going to hold up for the season. L4L gets Peja for an insurance policy just incase something happens and if nothing does get's bonus points from Big "Z". Question is, who does Ed pick up in the free agent market to fill the void or does he pull off a two for one deal and grab another quality player?


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

Scary trade for me, but exciting, too, if Shaq's healthy and motivated.

I think that Peja's a good fantasy player and with him healthy and Webber out for the first part of the year he'll be very good.

I've had Z in my other fantasy league each of the last 3 years and it was great to finally get him to pay off for me... if he's healthy he's very good (lots of free throws at a high %, blocked shots, etc.).

But I think Shaq's going to have a monster year, and the way our league uses FGA and FGM in addition to FG% and Points... Shaq's going to be a monster. He'll hurt me in FT%, of course, but he should do pretty well in FTM, so that's less of an issue than in some leagues.

Between the two deals I've made I've gone from a perimeter-oriented team (with Giricek and Peja) to more rebounding and a much strong center setup (with Shaq and Okur). I hope it means I'm better...

Ed O.


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## HOWIE (Dec 30, 2002)

Ed I fired off a trade to you this morning. I don't know if you are done trading or not, but after last nights game I thought that you might be interested in the trade. Let me know, it's a two for one deal.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Loyalty4Life</b>!
> 
> 
> It was Harpring and Rose for Duncan and Van Horn. I think it could have been a fair trade..


well, knowing your unhealthy love for DA, trading him for Shaq would have been fair in my mind.


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## HOWIE (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Hap</b>!
> 
> 
> well, knowing your unhealthy love for DA, trading him for Shaq would have been fair in my mind.


:laugh:


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## loyalty4life (Sep 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Hap</b>!
> 
> 
> well, knowing your unhealthy love for DA


You know me too well.


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## loyalty4life (Sep 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>HOWIE</b>!
> 
> 
> Um, Loyalty4Life, don't you mean "rooting * for * Shaq?"


Hmmmm.... Whoops.


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## loyalty4life (Sep 17, 2002)

theWanker, check out your proposals, and let me know who you want for Doug Christie.


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## loyalty4life (Sep 17, 2002)

Tell me who got the better end of this deal between 4FS and myself:

Payton and Coleman for Tinsley and Harpring. 

I am a bit concerned over a couple things:

- How well Payton will do with three other stars on the Lakers.
- How well Harpring will do is unknown. 

Harp could be a 25 and 8 guy, or maybe not. 

So who got the better deal?


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## Nightfly (Sep 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Loyalty4Life</b>!
> Tell me who got the better end of this deal between 4FS and myself:
> 
> Payton and Coleman for Tinsley and Harpring.
> ...


I'd like to protest this trade.

I'll send you an email as well when I have the chance.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Loyalty4Life</b>!
> 
> So who got the better deal?


I think that you got a WAY, WAY better deal than 4-F-S.

Harpring is a stiff when he's one of the best players on the team. He showed that in Orlando and in Philly. He's had success only when he's been able to play off of Malone and Stockton.

He's going to be just another player this year.

Tinsley is overrated by most, too. He can't shoot a lick and I'm not sure that he'll get tons of minutes under the new regime.

Payton, on the other hand, is a total stud. He'll get steals and assists and even if his shot attempts go down with the Lakers he'll still be a top 5 PG fantasy-wise. (And, indeed, he was the 5th PG-eligible drafted behind Kidd, Marbury, Francis and Terry.)

Coleman's got value, too, because he's center eligible.

I don't think that I really can protest this, though, because looking at where these guys were drafted it's actually pretty fair:

Payton (1st round, #18 overall)
Coleman (9th round, #162 overall)

Harpring (4th round, #70 overall)
Tinsley (6th round, #106 overall)

Even understanding that draft position isn't the be-all, end-all, I'd say (personally) that it was an excellent move for L4L, but still in the realm of fairness. 4-F-S still has Nash at the PG spot, so if he's a bigger fan of Harpring and Tinsley than I am, then it could work out fine.

Ed O.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

Personally, I don't think that draft position suggests that it's reasonably fair.

Granted, adding up the draft positions gives you a similar number, but that assumes the difference between draft positions in linear all the way up the scale.

I think the marginal difference between 20 and 100, for example, is *significantly* larger than the marginal difference between 100 and 180.

I'd be thrilled to trade the 100th and 101st drafted player for the 1st and 201th drafted player. I think, though draft position suggests fairness, it's insanely lopsided.


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## loyalty4life (Sep 17, 2002)

Well, I'm not going to continue with a trade that's been objected to like it has. I'll veto the trade.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Minstrel</b>!
> Personally, I don't think that draft position suggests that it's reasonably fair.
> 
> Granted, adding up the draft positions gives you a similar number, but that assumes the difference between draft positions in linear all the way up the scale.
> ...


I gotta disagree here, Minstrel. (Although I TOTALLY hear what you're saying.)

While the difference is obviously not linear throughout the NBA player population, there's a lot of value in having two average starters instead of having a star and a stiff because there are far more roster spots accumulating stats in our league than there are starters in the NBA.

Additionally, a market value has begun to be set for what's "fair", and I think this trade is right in line with that.

A 1st rounder's value in the case of my trade with L4L was a 2nd rounder (Peja) and a 6th rounder (Z). Shaq was a significantly higher draft pick than Payton (#3 rather than #18) so I think that the 4th rounder and 6th rounder are at least in the ballpark for a fair deal, and I don't think that the 9th round Coleman is enough to tip it to unfairness.

BUT, with all of this said, I am cool with whatever everyone else thinks...

Ed O.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Ed O</b>!
> 
> Additionally, a market value has begun to be set for what's "fair", and I think this trade is right in line with that.
> 
> A 1st rounder's value in the case of my trade with L4L was a 2nd rounder (Peja) and a 6th rounder (Z). Shaq was a significantly higher draft pick than Payton (#3 rather than #18) so I think that the 4th rounder and 6th rounder are at least in the ballpark for a fair deal, and I don't think that the 9th round Coleman is enough to tip it to unfairness.


While I still feel that, even with the number of roster spots, a stud and a stiff is worth more than two mediocre players, I do find this argument compelling.

I agree, when taken in context with "the market" that's emerging, it's not bad. Until that market becomes clear, a lot of these deals seem quite jarring, relative to the only thing one usually thinks of, the real NBA.


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## Backboard Cam (Apr 29, 2003)

I wouldn't have protested that Harpring etc trade. I personally would not give up Payton, but there still is potential for Harp & Tins (potential to not suck). The good thing with Tinsley's very bad shooting is that he doesn't shoot that much. 

*> > >>* Hey-

I was wondering... some of the team/manager names are different than peoples' names here, would it be too much to suggest that everyone put their screen names into their Yahoo team name somehow? Even "Blayzas' hennessy" or whatever would make things easier to follow. Or maybe put your team name in your signature here? 

Just an idea.


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## HOWIE (Dec 30, 2002)

Howie's Hoopsters is Hap I think!


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Backboard Cam</b>!
> 
> *> > >>* Hey-
> 
> ...


Good call. Henceforth, my team will be known as "Minstrel's The Minstrels"!


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## HOWIE (Dec 30, 2002)

Okay, I would like to get some thoughts on this trade offer.

Howies Hoopsters trades *Dale Davis* 

to

4-For-Snapper for *James Posey* 


Davis appears to be play decent and his muscle pull didn't slow him down last night. He might be in better shape than expected. Howie's Hoopsters is loaded with power forwards, but no good small forwards. Would this trade be considered a fair trade?

Thoughts?

4-For-Snapper has not replied to this trade as of yet. :sigh:


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## BlazerFanFoLife (Jul 17, 2003)

Howie check ur proposals i got u 2 good Sg one that got 18/8/6/4/5 (pnts,rebs,asts,st,bl) in his first preseson game


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## 4-For-Snapper (Jan 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>HOWIE</b>!
> Okay, I would like to get some thoughts on this trade offer.
> 
> Howies Hoopsters trades *Dale Davis*
> ...


Sorry... I've been busy. I like the deal, and accepted your offer.


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## HOWIE (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>4-For-Snapper</b>!
> 
> 
> Sorry... I've been busy. I like the deal, and accepted your offer.


Excellent, I have been busy putting a team together over the past week. I have had a lot of offers on many players, but I waited to make trades that made sense both for me and the other team involved.

Prior to this trade I had a large amount of power fowards on my team. I was able to aquire Jermanie O'Neal and Kirk Hinrinch (who I wasn't to high on until I saw him play last night, wow!  ) But I did the trade to get the other center named O'neal. Hinrinch is going to be the gravey on this trade. This gives me a nigh quality player for the center position.

Now with the trade for James Posey I am very pleased. Davis looks like he is going to play decent this season if he can stay healthy.

I think that I am one trade away from the begining of the start of the season. Big names that I would be willing to trade at the present time would be, *R Hamilton, A Stoudemire, and Mike Bibby.* Of course it would have to be for equal talent and I am not opposed to a 2 for one deal with one great SG or PG coming back to me.

Let me see you ideas and maybe we can help one another.


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## HOWIE (Dec 30, 2002)

I mean, just looked good and decent the other night, didn't he? Davis that is!!!!! Maybe he knew there was a trade in the works


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## HOWIE (Dec 30, 2002)

Okay I am guessing that everyone went to the Rose Garden for the inter squad game.

I have once again purposed a trade to *4-For-Snapper* . Here is the trade.

*Mike Bibby* solid point guard to back up Payton.
*Richard Hamilton* a SG/SF that should be very solid player this season in Detroit.
*Amare Stoudemire* what can you say about this kid, he is coming into his own and is the coner stone for the Suns.

in return for these three players I have asked 4 for Snapper for the following.

*Steve Nash* who basically is the back up to Payton on his squad currently.
*Cuttino Mobley* who might or might not have a great season in Houston. Last years numbers were high, but will he have the same numbers under JVG? Remember everything goes through Yao now, even Steve Francis is going to have a few problems this season.

I have also agreed to take his worst player off his hands if he decides to counter offer that idea.

Over all I think that the deal is fair and that it helps both teams out. This clears out my problem at power forward and adds a solid player to 4 for Snapper's front line.

Thoughts?


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## Nightfly (Sep 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Backboard Cam</b>!
> *> > >>* Hey-
> 
> I was wondering... some of the team/manager names are different than peoples' names here, would it be too much to suggest that everyone put their screen names into their Yahoo team name somehow? Even "Blayzas' hennessy" or whatever would make things easier to follow. Or maybe put your team name in your signature here?
> ...


I would, but my screen name wouldn't fit.

I'd hope that you all know by now who Portland's _Favorite_ *Soul Brother* is...


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## HOWIE (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>HOWIE</b>!
> Okay I am guessing that everyone went to the Rose Garden for the inter squad game.
> 
> I have once again purposed a trade to *4-For-Snapper* . Here is the trade.
> ...


This deal has been accepted and 4-for-Snapper has selected to drop Austin Croshere, is it too late for a change in the deal? Instead of Croshere being waived I would like to add him to my roster, I mean every dog has his day. If it is too late to change this I can still live with the deal as it reads.

*4-for-Snapper * ~ it has been a great working with you on the last two deals. I feel good about my line up and I think that you have made some good changes to your roster as well. :greatjob:


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## loyalty4life (Sep 17, 2002)

Saxon_guy and I have made a trade. It's somewhat of a risk for both of us, but overall, I believe it's a good trade.

Harpring and Richardson for Iverson and Patterson.


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## Nightfly (Sep 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Loyalty4Life</b>!
> Saxon_guy and I have made a trade. It's somewhat of a risk for both of us, but overall, I believe it's a good trade.
> 
> Harpring and Richardson for Iverson and Patterson.


If you ask me, Saxon is getting screwed. Iverson alone is worth more then Richardson and Harpring. Richardson is the only player in that deal with any real upside, and he's not going to be a better player then Iverson will be this year.


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## Saxon_guy (Jan 20, 2003)

I guess I will have to wait and see. And when I am sitting in first place you can decide then. :laugh:


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## Nightfly (Sep 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Saxon_guy</b>!
> I guess I will have to wait and see. And when I am sitting in first place you can decide then. :laugh:


Hey, I'm just trying to look out for you my man.

I'm not goint to protest this trade though. I was just saying that if I were in your position, I wouldn't do it.


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## loyalty4life (Sep 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>HearToTemptYou</b>!
> 
> 
> Hey, I'm just trying to look out for you my man.
> ...


Well, he made the trade offer, so I'm guessing he wanted to do it from the get-go.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

*nod* I think Iverson is worth much more than Harpring or Richardson and that it's a bad deal for Saxon_guy...but I have no plans to protest the deal.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

I agree that Iverson (although I am NOT a fan of him in real life) is worth *signficantly* more than Harpring and Richardson (Iverson's a guy who gets up a LOT of shots, and that's a category in and of itself, along with his dominance in FGM, scoring, and steals).

But it's not bad enough to warrant a protest from me, either.

Ed O.
edited for format flaw


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## loyalty4life (Sep 17, 2002)

Also, I was looking at the rankings of each players:

Iverson at #10
Patterson at #190

Richardson at #57
Harpring at #61

So with looking at it that way, I'm giving him an average ranked player of #59, and he's giving me an average ranked player of #100.


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## Nightfly (Sep 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Loyalty4Life</b>!
> Also, I was looking at the rankings of each players:
> 
> Iverson at #10
> ...


That arguement doesn't really work here for this reason. Take Iverson alone. Don't put him into your average. In that case, you giving up an average of #59, but he's giving up an average of #10.

I mean, I could throw Corrie Blount into any deal if I wanted to make the average rating drop. You see what I'm saying?


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## loyalty4life (Sep 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>HearToTemptYou</b>!
> 
> 
> That arguement doesn't really work here for this reason. Take Iverson alone. Don't put him into your average. In that case, you giving up an average of #59, but he's giving up an average of #10.


Not true. Now granted, trading one #59 player for one #10 is unfair. But, seeing that I'd be giving him TWO #59 players for one #10 player, that is what makes the trade fair.


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## Nightfly (Sep 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Loyalty4Life</b>!
> 
> 
> Not true. Now granted, trading one #59 player for one #10 is unfair. But, seeing that I'd be giving him TWO #59 players for one #10 player, that is what makes the trade fair.


How so? The averages are still the same.

So, If I give up 2 scrubs for 1 really good guy, it's fair?


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## loyalty4life (Sep 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>HearToTemptYou</b>!
> 
> 
> How so? The averages are still the same.
> ...


Do you think Richardson and Harpring are scrubs? I would have to strongly disagree there.


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## Nightfly (Sep 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Loyalty4Life</b>!
> 
> 
> Do you think Richardson and Harpring are scrubs? I would have to strongly disagree there.


I wasn't talking about in this case spesfically, and I don't feel that they are scrubs. If you were to ask me if I felt that Richardson and Harpring are worth Iverson alone however, I would say no.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>HearToTemptYou</b>!
> 
> 
> How so? The averages are still the same.
> ...


You have to account for the fact that multiple decent players are better than one decent player. Your analysis doesn't do that.

If someone traded 1 #50 ranked player for 1 #10 ranked player, by your method of analysis that's the same as 2 #50 ranked players (assuming that were possible) for 1 #10 ranked player: average #50 for average #10.

But *two* #50 ranked players are definitely worth more than *one* #50 ranked player.

Averages ignore quantity. Quantity matters to some extent. Two or three decent players *may* be worth a star.

If every point of ranking was equal, you could analyze it as: (average ranking) / number of players

So, two #50 ranked players for 1 #10 ranked player is equivalent to a #25 ranked player for a #10 ranked player. Three #50 ranked players (assume #47, #51, #52) would be equivalent to about a #17 ranked player.

That's not perfect, since I don't believe every point of ranking is exactly equal and that 20 #200 ranked players equal 1 #10 ranked player...but it's close enough when you don't go to extremes like I did with that example.

Basically, you need to take into account quantity *as well* as quality. To make a long story short.


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## Backboard Cam (Apr 29, 2003)

Two for one, eh? _Two_-for-_one??_

Here's the just-announced seven player mega-trade:

*4-for-Snapper gets*
Mike Bibby
Amare Stoudemire
Richard Hamilton
Dale Davis


*Howie's Hoopsters gets*
Steve Nash
Cuttino Mobley
James Posey

Additionally, 4-for-Snapper waives Croshere

I left out the Yahoo ranking numbers.


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## Backboard Cam (Apr 29, 2003)

(it was actually two seperate trades between those teams, Davis/Posey went through today. I still see it as one big trade, though. I won't protest any of it.)


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## HOWIE (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Backboard Cam</b>!
> Two for one, eh? _Two_-for-_one??_
> 
> Here's the just-announced seven player mega-trade:
> ...


The two for one deal was offered after the Davis for Posey was accepted. The first offer had Payton in it, but 4-for-Snapper didn't want to trade the Laker point guard so I went for his back up which is a great point guard too. 

I wanted to see a stronger two guard on my team so this was really three different trade if you will. I rolled it all into one deal with the last two, but I was going to send it as Hamilton & Stoudemire for Mobley as my two for one deal, but it ended up being a three for two! What are you going to do? I think that my team is complete now, but I still like to listen to offers.


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## loyalty4life (Sep 17, 2002)

Bad news, Ed O:

Shaq Undergoes MRI - Foot Still Bothers Him 

Last year, I made a trade with RoseCity. Bobby Jackson and Zach Randolph (who never really did well) for Vince Carter (injured) and Peja Stojakovic (injured). Well, a day or two after I made that trade, Shaq breaks Jackson's finger while he's going up for a layup. Then a week later, Peja gets into his old form and a few weeks later, Carter comes back and gives me some good production.

For some reason, I don't think RoseCity wants to trade with me this season. I wonder why... :grinning:


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## HOWIE (Dec 30, 2002)

So L4L ~ are you trying to build the Kings or what? I see a lot of movement with you going after King players. What gives?


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Loyalty4Life</b>!
> Bad news, Ed O:
> 
> Shaq Undergoes MRI - Foot Still Bothers Him
> ...


Shaq only has a bruised foot. Not the best of news, but not that big of a deal. And I'd gladly suck in fantasy basketball if it meant the Lakers were deprived of Shaq's services. 

Ed O.
edited for non-judgment of last year's trade


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## loyalty4life (Sep 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>HOWIE</b>!
> So L4L ~ are you trying to build the Kings or what? I see a lot of movement with you going after King players. What gives?


I enjoy watching the Kings, as they are my second favorite NBA team. It just makes watching them more fun if you have more of their players! :greatjob:


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

Im sure i'm the only one who feels this way, but I'm beggining to think this league is getting too stupid.


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## Backboard Cam (Apr 29, 2003)

Well, the league that I've been in for a while drafts next week, then that one will be my main focus. I'll still check on this one, since I come to BasketballBoards.net every day anyway. Plus, I think I have a very good team over here. I'm pretty sure I'll be in the top 4.

Does L4L have any of his drafted players left? 

If some guys want to trade a lot, there's no stopping them. Maybe things will slow down once the season starts. I won't be protesting any more trades unless they are just crazy lopsided.


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## BlayZa (Dec 31, 2002)

im with you Hap , its a joke already
an do me a fav L4L dont send me any more trade reqs , i aint interested , still.


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## loyalty4life (Sep 17, 2002)

Well, I believe every league has a couple members that aren't interested in the league anymore for different reasons, and that's fine. I remember last year a few people didn't even pay attention to it anymore because they weren't interested in it. That happens, and there's no problem with that.


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## FB (Dec 31, 2002)

I haven't totally lost interest, but I'll admit that I'll probably be more excited about the other league I'm in that drafts next week. As of right now we only have 8 teams and we won't be scraping the bottom of the barrel trying to fill our rosters.

You've gotta admit that there's a notable difference between picking somewhere in the 1-6 slots and picking 10+. Even with the "snake" style of the draft it's pretty easy to see there's a big difference between some of the teams. There are those few superstar players and then there is everyone else.

L4L: you can add me to the list of people who aren't entertaining offers from you....unless you promise to think it over at least 3 times and can honestly come to the conclusion that I might find it worthwhile. That JRich for B. Wallace proposal was stupid.


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## Backboard Cam (Apr 29, 2003)

Anyone who has played fantasy hoops at all knows that there will be players in the top 20 that were drafted very low. It always happens. I've been in leagues where the winner had no "stars" and didn't do a single trade or FA pickup. Anything can happen.

I'll admit that I was one of the first to suggest that L4L slow down with the trades, but it's not like everyone is giving them their top picks for garbage. As long as no one is giving up and trading away their fantasy studs, it won't have an effect on the league.

FB, you also thought Eddie Jones for Curry (from me) was a joke, but it's not a stretch. Neither is J Rich for Curry, but I wouldn't have taken that either. Curry migh have a breakout year, but it's still a _might_. Plus he's a bit injured right now.

And I actually like the size of this league- it's a challenge to find good players that are ranked #200-300.


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## loyalty4life (Sep 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>FB</b>!
> L4L: you can add me to the list of people who aren't entertaining offers from you....unless you promise to think it over at least 3 times and can honestly come to the conclusion that I might find it worthwhile. That JRich for B. Wallace proposal was stupid.


In hindsight, that was a bad offer. Sorry about that. I probably took more time in making the proposal than you did in declining it, so I wouldn't be too frustrated. I'll try not to do someone similar again.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

> Autzen's 59,000 strong make the Big House collectively sound like a pathetic whimper. It's louder than any place I've ever been, and that includes "The Swamp" at Florida, "The Shoe" in Columbus and "Death Valley" at Louisiana State. Autzen Stadium is where great teams go to die. - J. Brady McCollough - Michigan Daily


Yah, UO died there the next week....


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## loyalty4life (Sep 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Hap</b>!
> 
> 
> Yah, UO died there the next week....


Why you little... :devil:


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## FB (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Backboard Cam</b>!
> FB, you also thought Eddie Jones for Curry (from me) was a joke, but it's not a stretch. Neither is J Rich for Curry, but I wouldn't have taken that either. Curry migh have a breakout year, but it's still a _might_. Plus he's a bit injured right now.


I have no idea what you're talking about....I didn't/don't have any of those players and I don't remember a trade proposal from you...

L4L: I'm more joking around than anything....feel free to do whatever you want (within reason). It's just a game anyway, right?

Man...I'm in a weird mood today. Woke up at 5am without an alarm :|


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## loyalty4life (Sep 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>FB</b>!
> 
> It's just a game anyway, right?


To you maybe...


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Backboard Cam</b>!
> 
> And I actually like the size of this league- it's a challenge to find good players that are ranked #200-300.


I like the size of the league, too. It's of course frustrating to repeatedly lose out on waiver wire pickups, but that's the way the cookie crumbles.

If a long shot like Danny Fortson or Brian Skinner ends up having a decent year for me, it'll give me a much more inflated (if ultimately meaningless) sense of accomplishment that picking up a Quentin Richardson as a FA (which might be realistic in an 8 or even 10 team league) just wouldn't.

Ed O.


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## BlayZa (Dec 31, 2002)

i dont mind the size of the league at all , the fact it seems more like a lunchtime school trading card swap meet is a bigger worry - trades are all good but god damn ya know ?


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## Backboard Cam (Apr 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>FB</b>!
> 
> 
> I have no idea what you're talking about....


Yeah, my bad, it wasn't you. I have no excuse, you have your screen name in your team name.  Looking back at my post, I think I screwed up some other fact too- so I'll just shut up for now.


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## BlayZa (Dec 31, 2002)

Deleting my posts on yahoo now L4L ? seriously man , get a life. You just are proving what i said true , so deal with it like a man.


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## Nightfly (Sep 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BlayZa</b>!
> Deleting my posts on yahoo now L4L ? seriously man , get a life. You just are proving what i said true , so deal with it like a man.


Well. at least you know he read the post.


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## loyalty4life (Sep 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BlayZa</b>!
> Deleting my posts on yahoo now L4L ? seriously man , get a life. You just are proving what i said true , so deal with it like a man.


I'm not the one who started with the personal attacks, BlayZa, so I deleted your post. You've gone to a personal level, and I will not do that.


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## BlayZa (Dec 31, 2002)

lol whats wrong with what i said , last i checked it was all true?
or is the fact its true the problem here ?


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## Nightfly (Sep 24, 2002)

I wouldn't say that BlayZa's comments were a personal attack...


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## BlayZa (Dec 31, 2002)

thanks HTTY

Yeah no need to confuse opinions n facts for malice, all of what i said was accurate. I think the main thing is im just the one to say what a bunch of people are thinking. They were concerns MANY have in regards to this so dont get it twisted like ive got some hidden agenda.

lemmie break it down 

i and others have complained about the generally quite ridiculous trades that have been offered etc , L4L said that i shouldnt be in the league cause thats a big part of it and everyone does it yadda yadda

to which i said many people have voiced displeasure with these offers and the amount of trading in general on his behalf. 
ie 
there are 18 teams
has been 17 trades
9 involving him , and he's in 2 pending 

i just said its too overboard and that id hardly call one person being in over half the trades 'general trading' . 

Im not the only one thats starting to think this league is a waste of time , but maybe im the only one thats gonna say it when its needed. 

You can take it as honest comment or beef , whatever you want - but fact is fact and i dont BS about anything


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## loyalty4life (Sep 17, 2002)

Wanker, who do you want for Doug Christie? I made you an offer. Let me know what you think.


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## HOWIE (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BlayZa</b>!
> thanks HTTY
> 
> Yeah no need to confuse opinions n facts for malice, all of what i said was accurate. I think the main thing is im just the one to say what a bunch of people are thinking. They were concerns MANY have in regards to this so dont get it twisted like ive got some hidden agenda.
> ...


Gee, could you cut to the chase!


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## loyalty4life (Sep 17, 2002)

Well Howie, I thought your proposal of Jumaine Jones and Rasheed Wallace for Zyrdrunas Ilgauskas and Allen Iverson was a bit uneven favoring you. 

I sent you a bigger trade proposal (though I think it's very fair for both sides). Let me know what you think.


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## loyalty4life (Sep 17, 2002)

Well, it looks like you rejected my offer, Howie, so I'd like to know what the rest of you think about the offer I made:

Allen Iverson and Jamal Mashburn for Steve Nash and Jermaine O'Neal.


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## HOWIE (Dec 30, 2002)

and you turned this down?

*Howies Hoopsters* 

Mobley, Cuttino 
Posey, James 
Wallace, Rasheed 

*Loyal Legion™*

Divac, Vlade
Iverson, Allen
Mashburn, Jamal

I don't understand your need to make public what is offered you if you feel it isn't fair or it hasn't been accepted. So let me counter your post with.....

*Loyal Legion™* 

Iverson, Allen 
Mashburn, Jamal 

*Howies Hoopsters*

O'Neal, Jermaine
Nash, Steve

Now I really don't see how this fills any of my needs. I would be willing to take Iverson off your hands, but I am not giving you two allstars for Iverson and a decent player. I also am not in the practice of making deals just to make deals. You want me to deal a bigman and a point guard for a small forward and a shooting guard? Tell me again how this helps me, maybe I am missing something.

Looks like we are done since we can't seem to agree on what constitues a fair trade deal. Just an FYI, watch the stats of Jumaine Jones this coming season and then tell me it wasn't a fair deal that I offered you. 

Good Luck in dealing Iverson. :|


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## loyalty4life (Sep 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>HOWIE</b>!
> 
> *Loyal Legion™*
> 
> ...


http://www.nba.com/playerfile/jamal_mashburn/?nav=page

He averaged 22 ppg, 6 asp, and 6 rpg last season and he played all 82 games. He also has a .848 FT% and a .389 3pt%. How is Mashburn just a decent player? This trade proposal if probably the most even (and big) trade I've offered so far. I'm disappointed that you didn't accept it, but at the same time I understand you rejecting the deal if you don't want to go through with it.


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## Ballin101 (Nov 4, 2002)

What do you guys think about this team?

1. Tim Duncan
2. Elton Brand
3. Steve Francis
4. Vince Carter
5. Baron Davis
6. Jamal Crawford
7. Jerry Stackhouse
8. Lamar Odom
9. Amare Stoudemire
10. Eddy Curry
11. Troy Murphy
12. Corey Maggette
13. Nene Hilario

This is a team I drafted with a twelve team "competitive" squad on Yahoo!.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

You'll have two open roster spots for waiver pick-ups when Vince Carter and Baron Davis go down with injuries. What, was Grant Hill already taken? 

Overall, though, looks pretty cool. Nice not to have to take any scrubs just to finish out your roster.


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## HOWIE (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Loyalty4Life</b>!
> 
> 
> http://www.nba.com/playerfile/jamal_mashburn/?nav=page
> ...


The reason that I rejected it was because it doesn't make sense for me to trade big men away for smaller players. When this all started I had Wallace, Davis, O'neal, and Stoudemire. Right now my only two real big men are Wallace and O'neal and with no big men coming back to me, why would I do it? I doesn't make sense at all to me, plus Nash is the only point guard that is going to see minutes on my team. :no:


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## loyalty4life (Sep 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>HOWIE</b>!
> 
> 
> The reason that I rejected it was because it doesn't make sense for me to trade big men away for smaller players. When this all started I had Wallace, Davis, O'neal, and Stoudemire. Right now my only two real big men are Wallace and O'neal and with no big men coming back to me, why would I do it? I doesn't make sense at all to me, plus Nash is the only point guard that is going to see minutes on my team. :no:


That's fine, and you make good points about why you didn't accept the trade. From a talent standpoint and fairness, I believe it was a good deal. But if it doesn't fit your needs, I definitely understand.


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## mook (Dec 31, 2002)

Blayza- I don't think it's a waste of time. If L4L wants to be in half the trades, that's certainly one strategy that's completely valid. He's welcome to be the Trader Bob of the league, just as you are welcome to be the Utah Jazz of mega trades.


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## HOWIE (Dec 30, 2002)

It would appear that my roster is set in stone now and that is fine with me. Let the games begin, to bad we don't get a pre season to test the waters!


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## blazerfan4life (Dec 31, 2002)

here is my yahoo team..even though i couldn't join yours..i did join one tell me what you think:

PG Francis, Steve (G-Hou) 
SG Peterson, Morris (GF-Tor) 
G Miller, Reggie (SG-Ind) 
SF Szczerbiak, Wally (GF-Min) 
PF Duncan, Tim (FC-SA) 
F Gasol, Pau (PF-Mem) 
C Ming, Yao (C-Hou) 
C Dampier, Erick (C-GS) 
Util Parker, Tony (PG-SA) 
Util Jefferson, Richard (SF-NJ) 
Bench Jackson, Stephen (GF-Atl) 
Bench Randolph, Zachary (PF-Por) 
Bench Hardaway, Anfernee (SG-Pho) 

i was also thinking of picking up DEKE and dropping DAMPIER is that a good move you think or do you think i should get DARKO MILICIC..any input would be greatly needed...i got first place last year..but then again i also had KOBE..and this year he wasn't worth picking up


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

Milicic is on the waivers in your league?


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## HOWIE (Dec 30, 2002)

I have Darko and I don't know how much time he is going to see this year under Brown. What I have seen of him in the preseason I liked, but you run the chance of not getting the numbers you might next season.


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## Anima (Jun 3, 2003)

Does anyone want Lampe?


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## blazerfan4life (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Minstrel</b>!
> Milicic is on the waivers in your league?


YES he is..plus DEKE


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

I don't Deke is going to produce a whole lot. New York hopes he'll give them a defensive presence in the middle. I don't think they're delusional to expect any major numbers from him, though.

I'd take Milicic, even though I don't expect him to contribute much either. At least he has the "who knew?" chance to him, a chance to break out as a rookie.


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## Backboard Cam (Apr 29, 2003)

- BUMP -

getting close...


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## loyalty4life (Sep 17, 2002)

BC, who do you want on my team for Stepania?


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

Since this seems to be the default fantasy basketball thread, I'll post my team in the other league I'm in. We have 10 owners and could protect up to 2 players from last year. Draft order was random, and if people didn't protect a 2nd player they got a pick in the initial round. I was #7 in the lottery, but since everyone protected at least one player, and the #9 and #10 spots protected 2, it snaked back to me and I got the second pick.

As more preamble: the stats we use are MUCH more limited than the BBBNet league... only FG%, FT%, 3pt%, Rebounds, Assists, Points, Steals, Blocks, TOs. I think this deemphasized 3 point shooting (with no 3 pointers made) and rebounding (since there's only 1 category; no offensive rebounds or defensive rebounds on their own). We also protect 10 players (PG, SG, G, SF, PF, F, C, C, U, U) with 3 bench players. Head to head.

Ok, here's my lineup (with round selected):

PG: Steve Francis (2)
SG: Tracy McGrady (protected)
G: Brent Barry (6)
SF: Rashard Lewis (4)
PF: Pau Gasol (3)
F: Zach Randolph (5)
C: Carlos Boozer (8)
C: Kwame Brown (11)
U: Eric Snow (7)
U: Carmelo Anthony (10)
B: Caron Butler (9)
B: Vin Baker (12)
B: Mehmet Okur (13)

Interestingly, Okur is the only player I have in both leagues.

I think my team is going to be pretty good. I don't have any %-busters, and I have some good steals and assist possibilities. I'm going to be weak in blocks, I think, and my TOs might be a bit ugly. Center is a place where I didn't invest much, but I'm hoping Boozer/Brown/Baker/Okur can get enough rebounds while not killing me anywhere else to keep me competitive.

I probably drafted ZR a bit too high, but I wanted to get a Blazer. Rasheed went in the 3rd or 4th round and Bonzi went the pick after I took ZR in the 5th. Anthony and Butler were both strong picks and might have made up for my bit of a reach for ZR.

Any thoughts?

Ed O.


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## HOWIE (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Ed O</b>!
> Since this seems to be the default fantasy basketball thread, I'll post my team in the other league I'm in. We have 10 owners and could protect up to 2 players from last year. Draft order was random, and if people didn't protect a 2nd player they got a pick in the initial round. I was #7 in the lottery, but since everyone protected at least one player, and the #9 and #10 spots protected 2, it snaked back to me and I got the second pick.
> 
> As more preamble: the stats we use are MUCH more limited than the BBBNet league... only FG%, FT%, 3pt%, Rebounds, Assists, Points, Steals, Blocks, TOs. I think this deemphasized 3 point shooting (with no 3 pointers made) and rebounding (since there's only 1 category; no offensive rebounds or defensive rebounds on their own). We also protect 10 players (PG, SG, G, SF, PF, F, C, C, U, U) with 3 bench players. Head to head.
> ...


Funny, I also picked Rashard Lewis and Brent Barry in my ESPN league. But I also picked Bonzi Wells and Jason Richardson so I moved Brent Barry for Carmelo Anthony, who you seem to also have on your roster. I am going to be kicking myself if Barry goes off this season, but the team holding Anthony was a Sonic fan and didn't want Richardson.

Nice to see you have Barry, Lewis, and Anthony Ed. i am sure that all three give you some good numbers.


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## Backboard Cam (Apr 29, 2003)

I just got Zach in the 3rd round of an eight-team league.  Way too early... maybe. There were other Blazer fans in that league too, someone would have taken him. It was autodraft, and I pre-ranked ZR higher than Sheed. Just to have him.


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## Backboard Cam (Apr 29, 2003)

I'm up against BlayZin Hennessy in week 1.

He's got #8 from the Lakers! I won't boo, since it's just fantasy #8. He also has Malone.

For me, Jaric better get going! I know he's tired from playing this summer, but I really need him. I'm also not to sure about Haywood, and Mercer might not get much time. KG, Pau, and Baron Davis I'm not so worried about.


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