# Doesn't it worry you a bit that...



## TeDinero (Jun 27, 2005)

Oden only averaged 20 points and 10 boards as a senior in high school? For having the hype as the next Ewing and someone with his combination of size and strength, doesn't this concern you a bit. Not to mention, his weaknesses include; lack of aggression in paint, foul trouble and lack of post moves. I'm not sold on Oden, can you pursued me otherwise?


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

Mixum is that you?

I'm just joking of course.


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## Entity (Feb 21, 2005)

No.

It also doesn't bother me that his numbers were better than Ewing his freshman year in college, which justifies the comparison to me. It doesn't bother me that he was the key to leading Ohio State to the national championship game. It does bother me, however, that Portland could be the first destination for him since middle school to give him a home loss, and I wouldn't want to embarass him that way.


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## Spoolie Gee (Feb 3, 2005)

His teams were so dominate, he rarely had to play much in the second half.


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## hasoos (Jan 3, 2003)

I do have some questions about Odems "Motor" as they put it in football. But at the same time you can look at statistics like the one Greg Anthony brought up: He has not lost a home game. Ever. Most of the analyst say that if you go by statistics alone you will end up selling this guy short, his scoring ability is much better then advertised. To this effect I would bring in some stats: Early in the year he faced Florida and got faced pretty bad, scored in the low teens, got some boards, but really didn't do that well. But when the tournament came around, and his wrist was starting to feel better...then he comes through with 25 points and 12 boards against a very tough lineup that has several soon to be NBA players. I believe Oden will probably not astound many out the gate offensively...but in 2 years the rest of the league will probably hate him being an adversary, and it will be best to have him on your side or you are looking at a long night of being dominated down low.


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

Not only was that game against Florida...it was against 2 top 10 post players, while OSU had no other posts really.


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## NateBishop3 (Jul 22, 2003)

hasoos said:


> But when the tournament came around, and his wrist was starting to feel better...then he comes through with 25 points and 12 boards against a very tough lineup that has several soon to be NBA players.


I've thought about the same thing. 25 and 10 against a frontline that will soon be joining him in the lottery. Not bad. Not bad at all.


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## Superblaze (Aug 6, 2006)

Freshman years for significant centers in the modern era:

Shaquille O'Neal 13.0 pts 12.0 reb 3.6 blk 57% FG 56% FT

Patrick Ewing 12.7 pts 7.5 reb 3.2 blk 63% FG 62% FT

Hakeem Olajuwon 8.3 pts 6.2 reb 2.5 blk 61% FG 56% FT

David Robinson 7.6 pts 4.0 reb 1.3 blk 62% FG 58% FG

*Greg Oden 15.7 pts 9.6 reb 3.3 blk 62% FG 63% FT*

This was mentioned on another thread, and I think this sums everything up perfectly.


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## SodaPopinski (Aug 10, 2004)

Lack of aggression in the paint and lack of post moves? Unless there's another Greg Oden that I'm not aware of, that doesn't sound like the one that played at Ohio State. Everyone I've heard talks about the guy's great footwork and quickness in the paint (i.e. good post moves) and how he dominates the boards and painted area better than any big man to come out for quite some time.

He's got weaknesses for sure, but those two ain't it.

I've got my concerns about Oden, like does he fit with the way the NBA is going? I'm wondering if he would be rendered irrelevant in games against teams like Golden State and Phoenix. I also wonder if he's got a go-to shot when he's not right under the basket. Most of his offense I've seen comes from dunks. Guys in the NBA are going to be closer to his strength level, so he's going to have to use some finesse around the basket and make a 5 foot jumper sometimes. Is that in his arsenal? I'm not sure.

So yes - I have my concerns about Oden. But 99% of me is sold that he's the most dominant big man to come out since Tim Duncan.

-Pop


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## sa1177 (Feb 18, 2005)

I posted this is another thread....the night of the draft I saw a quote from Larry Biard that was something close to the following...

"I believe alot NBA GM's will be surprised by the offensive game of Greg Oden. He will be a dominant player on the offensive end."


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## Entity (Feb 21, 2005)

I really do think that Oden has 22/13 in him down the line at a bare minimum. Not to mention at least 3 blocks per. I think he is the most team oriented guy for a player of his super-star caliber I've seen in some time, so if his scoring numbers aren't top of the league, I won't hold it against him.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

Am I worried that he might not be the best player in the history of the game because of those stats? Perhaps.

Am I woried about him being an all-star center and the best prospect (along with LeBron) of the last 10 or 15 years?

No.

Ed O.


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## Boob-No-More (Apr 24, 2006)

SodaPopinski said:


> Everyone I've heard talks about the guy's great footwork and quickness in the paint (i.e. good post moves)


There's more to good post moves than quickness. Oden definitely has ALL the physical tools to develop into a dominant low post scorer in the NBA, but his post moves are nowhere near as refined or complete as Duncan's coming out of college. That's not a huge concern for me for several reasons. First, Duncan played 4 years of college ball. So, he had three more years to develop and improve his repertoire of post moves. Second, Duncan had the most well developed low post game of any big man to come out of college in the last 20 years. So, if Oden is behind him at this point, it's not like he's in bad company with no chance to improve. Finally, Oden has better physical tools than Duncan. He's bigger, stronger AND quicker. So, once he develops those post moves, he'll be even harder to stop.

And that's just on the offensive end. Tim Duncan has been first or second team all-defense every year he's been in the league. Not too shabby, but I believe Greg Oden will be an even better defensive player. He has the ability to simply own the paint and not just shut down his man, but keep the entire opposing team from penetrating and getting to the rim. He won't just block shots. He won't just alter shots. He will alter his opponents' way of thinking. They'll be much more inclined to settle for pull-up jumpers than attack the rim with Greg Oden patrolling the middle.

Yes, I think Greg Oden will develop into a dominant low post score, but his impact on the defensive end that has me just as excited (more actually). Getting a big man who can dominate the paint at both ends of the court is a very rare opportunity.

BNM


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## ebott (Jan 7, 2003)

No, Greg Oden will dominate the NBA for the next 10 years.


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

Durant put up this stat line as a Sr. 23.6ppg, 10.2rpg, 3apg, 3spg and 2.6bpg.

Is that glaringly better? I meen compared to 22ppg and 10.5rpg while shooting 74% from the field for Oden.


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## Talkhard (May 13, 2003)

Let's make this real simple. Oden is the kind of player you can't afford to pass up. I don't care if his statistics aren't dazzling, his potential is. You simply C A N N O T pass on this guy if he's available. Every other team in the NBA would take him with the first pick, and so will Portland.


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## blakeback (Jun 29, 2006)

TeDinero said:


> Oden only averaged 20 points and 10 boards as a senior in high school? For having the hype as the next Ewing and someone with his combination of size and strength, doesn't this concern you a bit.


have you ever been to a high school basketball game? a common final score is 58-60, with 35 rebounds for the whole team. they only play eight minute quarters.

I'm not 100% sold on Oden either, but please try to act rationally.

...oh wait, actually I am 100% sold on Oden, I forgot.


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## Boob-No-More (Apr 24, 2006)

SodaPopinski said:


> I've got my concerns about Oden, like does he fit with the way the NBA is going? I'm wondering if he would be rendered irrelevant in games against teams like Golden State and Phoenix.


The whole "new NBA" thing is a fraud. How many championships have the Suns and other small and fast teams won? Exactly ZERO. In the mean time, teams with traditional dominant big men, specifically Shaq and Duncan, keep racking up rings. 

Dallas got bounced by Golden State because Dirk is a "new breed" of 7-footer who doesn't dominate the paint at either end. Let Golden State's guards try to drive down the middle like they did against Dallas and Greg Oden will quickly show them how irrelevant he is - NOT!

BNM


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## NateBishop3 (Jul 22, 2003)

I watched Golden State quite a bit in the playoffs. They're streaky. They have zero offensive sets. They basically just run up and down the floor, jacking up shots. Sometimes they go on a hot streak and run you out of the gym. Unfortunately for the Warriors, they ran into a steady team like the Jazz, who didn't let themselves be rattled by the hot streaks of Golden State. The Jazz just played their game and eventually would win by 5-6 points. 

With Oden, the Blazers will become the halfcourt team that McMillain wants so badly. With Oden and LMA, they can run a nice inside/outside game with Roy and Sergio. Now they just need a deadeye small forward who can bomb away from anywhere on the floor. That might be Webster. It might not. Needless to say, I think the Blazers would crush the Warriors once they get their offense set up.


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## BuckW4GM (Nov 2, 2005)

Boob-No-More said:


> Let Golden State's guards try to drive down the middle like they did against Dallas and Greg Oden will quickly show them how irrelevant he is - NOT!
> 
> BNM


oh man. you just gave me chills. like you, i'm more excited about oden's defense than his offense. this is not to mean that i don't think he will dominate on offense, because i think he absolutely will. i just think oden's defense will be so good that rules might be changed because of it. he could quite possibly be the most dominant defensive player since you-know-who.


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## MARIS61 (Apr 28, 2003)

No.


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## craigehlo (Feb 24, 2005)

SodaPopinski said:


> I've got my concerns about Oden, like does he fit with the way the NBA is going? I'm wondering if he would be rendered irrelevant in games against teams like Golden State and Phoenix.


I thought the same thing, then I watched the 2nd round of the Playoffs. A mobile big man that can defend, run the floor and post up trumps any gimmicky offense.


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## TeDinero (Jun 27, 2005)

blakejacked said:


> have you ever been to a high school basketball game? a common final score is 58-60, with 35 rebounds for the whole team. they only play eight minute quarters.
> 
> I'm not 100% sold on Oden either, but please try to act rationally.
> 
> ...oh wait, actually I am 100% sold on Oden, I forgot.



Well then explain to me how Dwight Howard can AVERAGE 18.5 Points, 14.9 Rebounds, 7.0 Blocks through his high school career and not be called the next Ewing/Russell? And I just think it's odd that Oden couldn't even average 10 boards at OSU. I would love to have a franchise center, but im not sold on Oden becoming that player. I wish someone could convince me otherwise, I'm trying to convince myself, but there's nothing exciting me about his game other then his shot blocking (which leads him to foul trouble) and his hype that he's the best center prospect since Duncan or Yao.


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## alext42083 (Nov 7, 2003)

TeDinero said:


> Well then explain to me how Dwight Howard can AVERAGE 18.5 Points, 14.9 Rebounds, 7.0 Blocks through his high school career and not be called the next Ewing/Russell? And I just think it's odd that Oden couldn't even average 10 boards at OSU. I would love to have a franchise center, but im not sold on Oden becoming that player. I wish someone could convince me otherwise, I'm trying to convince myself, but there's nothing exciting me about his game other then his shot blocking (which leads him to foul trouble) and his hype that he's the best center prospect since Duncan or Yao.


I'm sure there are about 28, 29 other teams out there lining outside the Blazers' door if they didn't want him. This guy is no Yinka Dare.

The guy is a winner. He played with his non-shooting hand basically last year, and just the fact that guys like this come along every 10 years, no way you pass him up.


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## dudleysghost (Mar 24, 2006)

Boob-No-More said:


> The whole "new NBA" thing is a fraud. How many championships have the Suns and other small and fast teams won? Exactly ZERO. In the mean time, teams with traditional dominant big men, specifically Shaq and Duncan, keep racking up rings.


If Shaq were in his prime, I don't think any team would even dream of trying to get away with putting Al Harrington or Boris Diaw on him. Sure, it would create a mismatch because Shaq was too slow to come out on defense and contest jump shots, but if he gets an easy 2 points on the other end every time down the court, his team wins in the end.

I don't see the new NBA making Oden irrelevant, I see Oden making the new NBA irrelevant. He's probably not going to end up with a Shaq-level of offensive skill, but he's no Dwight Howard either. Oden is very coordinated, and I honestly think it's safe to classify his post skill as "raw" rather than "non-existant". In a couple years or less, if teams try to put anyone 6-9 or smaller not named Ben Wallace on him, Oden will destroy them in the post.


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## dudleysghost (Mar 24, 2006)

TeDinero said:


> Well then explain to me how Dwight Howard can AVERAGE 18.5 Points, 14.9 Rebounds, 7.0 Blocks through his high school career and not be called the next Ewing/Russell? And I just think it's odd that Oden couldn't even average 10 boards at OSU. I would love to have a franchise center, but im not sold on Oden becoming that player. I wish someone could convince me otherwise, I'm trying to convince myself, but there's nothing exciting me about his game other then his shot blocking (which leads him to foul trouble) and his hype that he's the best center prospect since Duncan or Yao.


Dwight Howard was considered a very good prospect and easy #1 choice (that year) as well, and is still considered one of the future superstars of the league by many.

The difference, IMO, is that Oden is just more agile and coordinated. Howard gets his by being a physical monster, which is fine, but I think Oden's ceiling is higher because he will be able to develop a higher skill level. I'm not convinced he will ever reach a Duncan or Shaq level of skill, but I am convinced he will exceed Dwight Howard's overall game and be a superstar defender who is at the minimum capable of scoring in the post and punishing smaller players, if not one of the most dominant post scorers in the game.

I know it's subjective, and the stats don't really prove what I'm saying, but just find some footage of the Howard and Oden playing, and I think you will see that they are just different players. Both huge, Howard stronger, Oden quicker and more coordinated, and I think that puts Oden's upside at a higher level.


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## hogey11 (Aug 30, 2002)

Boob-No-More said:


> The whole "new NBA" thing is a fraud. How many championships have the Suns and other small and fast teams won? Exactly ZERO. In the mean time, teams with traditional dominant big men, specifically Shaq and Duncan, keep racking up rings.
> 
> Dallas got bounced by Golden State because Dirk is a "new breed" of 7-footer who doesn't dominate the paint at either end. Let Golden State's guards try to drive down the middle like they did against Dallas and Greg Oden will quickly show them how irrelevant he is - NOT!
> 
> BNM


This is completely untrue.

While there has been dominant center in nearly all of the championships won in the last 26 years, even MORE of those teams have featured great, dominant guards.

Kareem had Magic.
Bird LED McHale. (<-- Guard is better)
Moses Malone had Dr. J.
Detroit was led by 2 guards (Thomas/Dumars).
Jordan had Pippen (2 guards again)
Olajuwon had nobody and Drexler ("real deal" center)
Shaq had Kobe (early years, Shaq did it singlehandedly, but 2nd and 3rd, Kobe was huge)
Shaq also had Dwayne Wade.
Duncan had Ginobili/Elliot ("real deal" center)
2004 pistons had a good team all around.

LOOK AT THIS! The center argument is so incredibly untrue. The only championships that argument applies to is Duncan and Olajuwon, which makes up only 5 of the last 26 championships, as compared to guard-led teams (Jordan/Pippen, Thomas/Dumars, 2004 pistons) which comes up with 9. Sure, the rest all had dominant big men, but they also had dominant guards (hall of famers).

I see championships being won based on pairing a GREAT guard with a GREAT big man, or just two GREAT players at any position. Can Aldridge be great? If not, then you pick Oden. If Aldridge has a chance to be great, then you go with Durant. Roy is the perfect 3rd piece of the puzzle.

EDIT: I realize that big men are harder to come by, but my argument still stands. Magic, Bird, Jordan, Thomas, Dr. J, Kobe, Dwade and Drexler aren't exactly just "all-star guards". We're talking about the greatest guards in history. These players don't come along every year either, and Durant seems to just kinda strike me as another Jordan/Bird/Magic type of competitor. I love the fact that he seems like he just wants to win. Bad. Hard choice, KP... I'm still thinking Durant is gonna be the better player tho.


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## hogey11 (Aug 30, 2002)

dudleysghost said:


> Dwight Howard was considered a very good prospect and easy #1 choice (that year) as well, and is still considered one of the future superstars of the league by many.
> 
> The difference, IMO, is that Oden is just more agile and coordinated. Howard gets his by being a physical monster, which is fine, but I think Oden's ceiling is higher because he will be able to develop a higher skill level. I'm not convinced he will ever reach a Duncan or Shaq level of skill, but I am convinced he will exceed Dwight Howard's overall game and be a superstar defender who is at the minimum capable of scoring in the post and punishing smaller players, if not one of the most dominant post scorers in the game.
> 
> I know it's subjective, and the stats don't really prove what I'm saying, but just find some footage of the Howard and Oden playing, and I think you will see that they are just different players. Both huge, Howard stronger, Oden quicker and more coordinated, and I think that puts Oden's upside at a higher level.


Dwight Howard is stupid fast for a big man, and is learning to shoot the 3. he's only 2 years older than Oden, and is already a dominant big man (as shown when all Detroit had to to beat the Magic was shut down Howard).

IMO, Howard and Oden will be the perennial center matchup for a good 10 years in a few years time. Both are stupid talented, but I doubt I would give either a higher ceiling at this point. I'd say they're very close in potential.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

TeDinero said:


> his weaknesses include; lack of aggression in paint


Not at all true.



> foul trouble


True in college, but the college game is called much tighter.



> and lack of post moves.


He's actually quite polished for his age, around the hoop. He has a fair amount to learn, but he's ahead of his age, he's smart from all accounts and a hard worker.

I don't really see any of these as serious concerns.


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## dudleysghost (Mar 24, 2006)

hogey11 said:


> Dwight Howard is stupid fast for a big man, and is learning to shoot the 3. he's only 2 years older than Oden, and is already a dominant big man (as shown when all Detroit had to to beat the Magic was shut down Howard).
> 
> IMO, Howard and Oden will be the perennial center matchup for a good 10 years in a few years time. Both are stupid talented, but I doubt I would give either a higher ceiling at this point. I'd say they're very close in potential.


I wasn't really trying to downplay Howard at all. TeDinero was just asking why people think Oden will be so good and using Howard as a comparison, and I'm saying that if Howard is even your basis of comparison then you're talking about a very good player.

But I am pretty confident Oden will be the better player. No way to prove it right now, but we'll get to see as the years go on. Howard will be the better rebounder, but I think Oden will block more shots and be the better defender. Right now both lack real offensive skill, but I think Oden will develop his to a much higher level. I don't know about Howard shooting 3s, but if I were his coaches, I'd have him working on hook shots, short jumpers and free throws instead.


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## Mateo (Sep 23, 2006)

Not really. Compare players stats to other players on their same level. Do not compare his stats to NBA stats and the perception of his competition.

I guarantee Oden will be better than Shaq next year. So, if having a player as good as Shaq who'll likely get much much better isn't your thing, then so be it.


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## Boob-No-More (Apr 24, 2006)

hogey11 said:


> This is completely untrue.
> 
> While there has been dominant center in nearly all of the championships won in the last 26 years, even MORE of those teams have featured great, dominant guards.
> 
> ...


So, are you saying pass on both Oden and Durant and take the best guard available? I know you're not, but it sure sounds that way from the examples you give. Fortunately, there are multiple holes in your argument. For the record, Kevin Durant is a 3. He's not a power forward and he's not a shootng guard. He is, and will always be a small forward. How many of those last 26 chamionship teams were LED by a small forward? Hint: ONE OF THEM - can you figure out which one? Hint 2: he also had THREE Hall of Fame big men on that team with him (two starters and the 6th man of the year). Hint 3: He also played nearly half his creeer at power forward. For the answer, see below.

First, you must not have been following the NBA 20-25 years ago, or you'd know that Moses Malone was both regular season and finals MVP the year the 76ers won the title. Dr. J. was well past his prime and a nice 2nd/3rd option, but that was definitely Moses' team. Chalk up one more for the dominant center.

Also, on the first two championship teams of the Bird era, Larry was the starting power forward, Parrish the center and McHale the 6th man. So, both the starting center and the starting power forward on those teams were futute Hall of Famers - notice none of the guards or the small forward (Cornbread Maxwell) from those teams are in the Hall. Throw in Kevin McHale as the back-up 5/4 and those Celtic teams had three big men who made the Hall of Fame. Eventually, they moved McHale into the starting 4 spot, Bird slid over to the 3 and Walton was the sixth man. On that 1986 team, all three front court starters and their 6th man were all future Hall of Famers.

Kareem won a title without Magic. How many did Magic win without Kareem?

Olajuwon won a title without any decent guards and one with Drexler. How many did Drexler win without Olajuwon?

Shaq won a title without Kobe. How many has Kobe won without Shaq?

ALL of the Spurs titles are a direct result of their big men - either Duncan or the combination of Duncan/Robinson. Without Tim Duncan, San Antonio doesn't have a single title, let alone three (soon to be four). Again two future Hall of Famers at the 5/4. How many San Antonio guards from those teams are future HoFers?

Of the NBA championships since 1980, every single team has featured either a Hall of Fame center or at least one first team all NBA defender and in the majority of the cases BOTH. In fact, other than the 2004 Pistons, every NBA champion since 1980 has had either a Hall of Fame big man or TWO first team all NBA defenders. In Detroit's case, they had a first team all NBA defender at center (Ben Wallace) and two more players (Billups and Prince) that made second team all defense that year. I know defense doesn't sell as many sneakers. So, people don't talk about it much, but will Kevin Durant be a first team all NBA defender year after year, or will he just be a great scorer and decent defender? He has the physical tools to be a great defender, but so did Domique Wilkins. Yes, Durant will be a great offensive player and a star in this league, but Greg Oden gives you both a dominant big man AND a likely first team all NBA defender in one package - and that's almost a guarantee to win multiple NBA championships. Great scorers come and go, but unless they are also great defenders (like Jordan) or coupled with a great big man, they never win championships.

And, Oden will be paired with Brandon Roy. While Roy may not become as good as Dwayne Wade, his rookie numbers were very similar (slightly better, in fact). As you admitted, great guards (and great small forwards) are easier to come by then great big men. So, why not take the potential great big man over the potential great small forward when you have the rare opportunity to choose one or the other? Let me repeat it: Other than the 2004 Detroit Pistons (who had Ben Wallace - first team NBA all defense at center, and two more players, Tayshaun Prince and Chauncey Billups, second team all defense), every NBA champion since 1980s has had either a Hall of Fame caliber big man or two first team all NBA defenders. No matter how you try to spin it, it's big men and defense that win championships. The only way you win titles with guards and/or small forwards is if they are also great defenders.

BNM


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## graybeard (May 10, 2003)

Boob-No-More said:


> So, are you saying pass on both Oden and Durant and take the best guard availale? I know you're not, but it sure sounds that way from the examples you give. Fortunately, there are multiple holes in your argument. For the record, Kevin Durant is a 3. He's not a power forward and he's not a shootng guard. He is, and will always be a small forward. How many of those last 26 chamionship teams were LEAD by a small forward? Hint: ONE OF THEM - can you figure out which one? Hint 2: he also had THREE Hall of Fame big men on that team with him (two starters and the 6th man of the year). Hint 3: He also played nearly half his creeer at power forward. For the answer, see below.
> 
> First, you must not have been following the NBA 20-25 years ago, or you'd know that Mose Malone was both regular season and finals MVP the year the 76ers won the title. Dr. J. was well past his prime and a nice 2nd/3rd option, but that was definely Moses' team. Chalk up one more for the dominant center.
> 
> ...


 Great post, Boobs. Someone should email this to KP, just in case there is really any doubt in his mind of who to draft.


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## hogey11 (Aug 30, 2002)

Boob-No-More said:


> So, are you saying pass on both Oden and Durant and take the best guard available? I know you're not, but it sure sounds that way from the examples you give. Fortunately, there are multiple holes in your argument. For the record, Kevin Durant is a 3. He's not a power forward and he's not a shootng guard. He is, and will always be a small forward. How many of those last 26 chamionship teams were LED by a small forward? Hint: ONE OF THEM - can you figure out which one? Hint 2: he also had THREE Hall of Fame big men on that team with him (two starters and the 6th man of the year). Hint 3: He also played nearly half his creeer at power forward. For the answer, see below.
> 
> First, you must not have been following the NBA 20-25 years ago, or you'd know that Moses Malone was both regular season and finals MVP the year the 76ers won the title. Dr. J. was well past his prime and a nice 2nd/3rd option, but that was definitely Moses' team. Chalk up one more for the dominant center.
> 
> ...


This is very well argued. Fair enough, I see your point. And to be honest, the more i read up on Oden, the more i like him too.

However, to speak candidly, there is one thing that doesn't sit right with me about it, and its something thats been mentioned before. Durant just comes off a little crazy, in that Jordan kinda way. Jordan was kinda crazy if you think about it. even now, he's kinda crazy. But thats what makes him great. 

Either way, I think they're both gonna fight for many years to come with Lebron, Bosh, and Howard (as well as any other superstar who steps up i suppose) for many championships. The future is looking great.



> And, Oden will be paired with Brandon Roy. While Roy may not become as good as Dwayne Wade, his rookie numbers were very similar (slightly better, in fact). As you admitted, great guards (and great small forwards) are easier to come by then great big men. So, why not take the potential great big man over the potential great small forward when you have the rare opportunity to choose one or the other? Let me repeat it: Other than the 2004 Detroit Pistons (who had Ben Wallace - first team NBA all defense at center, and two more players, Tayshaun Prince and Chauncey Billups, second team all defense), every NBA champion since 1980s has had either a Hall of Fame caliber big man or two first team all NBA defenders. No matter how you try to spin it, it's big men and defense that win championships. The only way you win titles with guards and/or small forwards is if they are also great defenders.


I think the argument could be made that Aldridge has the potential to be a great player in his own rights, and combined with Roy and Randolph, who are no slouches either, you can add a possible superstar in the one position that you don't have potential in (other than PG )?!?

I can't argue that Oden is the best pick of the draft. However, unless Aldridge goes somewhere on draft day (for Conley?), I think Durant would ultimately fit the Blazers better than Oden as the team is now. 

I'm not sure the restructuring around Oden is gonna help or hurt them at the bottom-line, but i get the feeling it will not come out favorably. Randolph will not get fair value (S&T is best option for a good player) due to bad rep, Webster and Jack will only garner face value at this point, and GM's will be wary of Pritchard after last year's draft.


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## Boob-No-More (Apr 24, 2006)

One additional reason to take Oden over Durant (and I mentioned this in another thread). If we let Oden go to Seattle, it potentially helps them a LOT more than "letting" them have Durant. If they get Oden, they stand a MUCH greater chance of re-signing and keeping Rashard Lewis. That gives them Oden in the middle and Lewis and Ray Allen on the perimeter. That's a great combination of inside/outside and youth + experience. If that were to happen, we'd be looking up at Seattle in the standings for years (likely until Ray and Rashard are too old to be productive).

Taking Oden and "forcing" Seattle to take Durant basically makes Rashard Lewis redundant and expendable - which means instead of three very good complimentary players, they possibly only have two (if Lewis walks) - and both (or all three, in the unlikely event Lewis stays) are perimeter players. They are still very weak inside and wouldn't stand much of a chance against the Blazers with Oden and Aldridge.

So, just in our division, I think the addition of Oden makes us clearly better than Seattle + Durant. Whereas I think Seattle + Oden combined with their veterans Lewis and Allen keeps them ahead of us in the standings for quite while while we wait for our young guys to overtake their mix of veterans + youth and strong inside/outside balanced attack.

I also think power forward is LaMarcus Aldridge's best position in the NBA. He can play center more than adequately for stretches, but it would be kind of like forcing Sheed to play center - it takes away a lot of the advantages he has playing his more natural power forward position.

Of course, my ultimate fantasy is we draft Oden and land a quality small forward in a trade - either a veteran like Lewis, or a high enough draft pick to land Corey Brewer. While I do think Kevin Durant is going to be a very special player and a potential superstar, I still believe drafting Greg Oden is the better path to future championships. That path has served others well in the past and dominant big men like Oden are a VERY rare commodity. They only come around about once every 8 - 10 years - and when they do, they usually win multiple championships.

BNM


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## hogey11 (Aug 30, 2002)

Boob-No-More said:


> One additional reason to take Oden over Durant (and I mentioned this in another thread). If we let Oden go to Seattle, it potentially helps them a LOT more than "letting" them have Durant. If they get Oden, they stand a MUCH greater chance of re-signing and keeping Rashard Lewis. That gives them Oden in the middle and Lewis and Ray Allen on the perimeter. That's a great combination of inside/outside and youth + experience. If that were to happen, we'd be looking up at Seattle in the standings for years (likely until Ray and Rashard are too old to be productive).
> 
> Taking Oden and "forcing" Seattle to take Durant basically makes Rashard Lewis redundant and expendable - which means instead of three very good complimentary players, they possibly only have two (if Lewis walks) - and both (or all three, in the unlikely event Lewis stays) are perimeter players. They are still very weak inside and wouldn't stand much of a chance against the Blazers with Oden and Aldridge.
> 
> ...


My brain agrees with you completely, but my gut just doesn't it seems. 

I see what you're saying with the Seattle thing, but I think they'll be good regardless. If Lewis walks, he can only go 1 place where they'll give him the money he wants, and thats Charlotte. Anybody else will need to broker a S&T with Seattle, unless Lewis takes a smaller salary than expected. Therefore, they will get SOMETHING for him, and combined with the offensive threat that is Ray Allen, and a young kid who Pritchard thinks will average 20 a game as a 18 year old rookie, they're gonna be dangerous regardless.

However, Oden/Lewis/Allen is a bit scarier. I'll give you that.


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