# Kevin Love (Report: Bulls offering Gibson, Snell, #16 and #19)



## PD (Sep 10, 2004)

http://espn.go.com/chicago/nba/stor...ion-likes-chicago-bulls-golden-state-warriors

It finally happened. Kevin Love tells the Wolves he would explore the free agency. Rumors are that the Bulls will be on his list. The Wolves will have to explore options whether to take the risk or trade him. Arenthe Bulls a competitative trading partner for Love?

Boozer
Two 2014 first round picks
Right to Mirotic
And Sac protected pick

Will this do? Or must another combination to include Gibson? 

Noah, Love, Dunleavy, Butler, and Rose look pretty good for a starting 5.

Will definitely have money left to resign Hinrich, Augustin, etc.


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## Ballscientist (Nov 11, 2002)

*Re: Kevin Love*

We offer 2013 nba double-double leader in David Lee and great young talent in Harrison Barnes plus 1 unprotected pick.


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## mvP to the Wee (Jul 14, 2007)

*Re: Kevin Love*

I hope Rubio is in Minnesota's ear about how playing with country-man Mirotic would keep him happy. I agree with the offer below, but I fear Boston might put together a better offer if they give up the lotto pick. 

Anyways, assuming the offer mentioned above happens, sign Paul Pierce to MLE, DJ Augustin to BAE.

PG-Rose/Augustin
SG-Butler/Snell
SF-Pierce/Dunleavy
PF-Love/Gibson
C-Noah/Smith


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

*Re: Kevin Love*

Not sure I believe everything we hear on this one. I think back to the Gasol, Kobe, Garnett, Aldridge, and many other "player X is available" rumors, and the truth seems to always be exaggerated or skewed to the point where half-truths/non-truths are floating around the web.

It does make sense Kevin Love is planning to explore free agency next summer, however the T-Wolves aren't going to let him go easily, as their most valuable asset. 

That being said, if he is available I would likely prefer him over Melo mainly b/c he's younger and a big man scorer is arguably more valuable than a wing scorer. 

Our package would likely start with Taj Gibson, both 2014 first-round picks, maybe Mirotic if he states a willingness to play in Minnesota (Rubio doesn't hurt). Not sure if that is enough because they are giving up a superstar and highly unlikely they get even a future all-star back; maybe a few average starters at best. Although Taj Gibson would be a great pairing with Pekovic over there, in many ways a more natural fit than Love, who is a damn good big man in his own right.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

*Re: Kevin Love*



mvP to the Wee said:


> I hope Rubio is in Minnesota's ear about how playing with country-man Mirotic would keep him happy. I agree with the offer below, but I fear Boston might put together a better offer if they give up the lotto pick.
> 
> Anyways, assuming the offer mentioned above happens, sign Paul Pierce to MLE, DJ Augustin to BAE.
> 
> ...



The question is whether Love would agree to an extension in Boston. Any team that is going to give up what it takes to get him is going to need assurances in that regard.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: Kevin Love*

Minnesota wants the rebuilding error to end, so I think that Gibson is going to have to be part of any package for Love. Especially with Mirotic and Pekovic being the other two guys at the 4/5 and the fact that the Sacramento pick could very easily end up being a #2 in 2017.


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## PD (Sep 10, 2004)

*Re: Kevin Love*



mvP to the Wee said:


> I hope Rubio is in Minnesota's ear about how playing with country-man Mirotic would keep him happy. I agree with the offer below, but I fear Boston might put together a better offer if they give up the lotto pick.
> 
> Anyways, assuming the offer mentioned above happens, sign Paul Pierce to MLE, DJ Augustin to BAE.
> 
> ...


This would be ideal for the Bulls. However, I agree with the above posters that Gibson may need to be included in the deal. I could see the Wolves want both Boozer and Gibson, and they are sending Martin back. This will give them more expiring contacts. 

Boozer, Gibson, two 2013 first round picks (16 and 19), and right to Mirotic or Sacramento protected pick for Love and Martin. If the Bulls can get someone like Pierce for cheap, the Bulls would look pretty good.

Rose
Butler
Pierce
Love
Noah

Martin, Hinrich, and fillers for the bench. Not too shabby.


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## Ballscientist (Nov 11, 2002)

*Re: Kevin Love*

Wolves don't want both Boozer and Gibson. You need to offer some young talents so that they can lead the Wolves to playoffs.

or Boozer and Gibson to third team for a young superstar (like Blake Griffin), then go to Wolves.

David Lee (30 yrs old) is really too old. Wolves don't want him.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: Kevin Love*

love's situation puts them in a bind 

the wolves want to finally be successful meaning they want guys who produce....not potential guys.

if the bulls had not dealt deng they probably could have gotten this done for deng, gibson and maybe a draft pick

now all they can offer is gibson and youth or the less attractive boozer and youth.


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## Ballscientist (Nov 11, 2002)

*Re: Kevin Love*



Da Grinch said:


> love's situation puts them in a bind
> 
> the wolves want to finally be successful meaning they want guys who produce....not potential guys.
> 
> ...


No, Wolves don't want Boozer or Gibson. Knicks and Lakers are very interested. They may have a better offer than Boozer or Gibson.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

*Re: Kevin Love*



Ballscientist said:


> No, Wolves don't want Boozer or Gibson. Knicks and Lakers are very interested. They may have a better offer than Boozer or Gibson.



Like who?


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## PD (Sep 10, 2004)

*Re: Kevin Love*



Ballscientist said:


> No, Wolves don't want Boozer or Gibson. Knicks and Lakers are very interested. They may have a better offer than Boozer or Gibson.


Knicks have no one to offer beside Anthony. Lakers have even less. The Bulls just boosted their chances of landing Love with the Lakers and Celtics not winning lottery.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: Kevin Love*



PD said:


> Knicks have no one to offer beside Anthony. Lakers have even less. The Bulls just boosted their chances of landing Love with the Lakers and Celtics not winning lottery.


the knicks have a few guys (tyson chandler amar'e, bargnani, tim hardawayjr jr smith ) the lakers could offer pau in a sign and trade plus pick

it was never going to be an equal trade , love saw to that when he took away their leverage, its more about getting something of value to build their team.

taj or boozer plus youth really isn't better than what can be realistically offered (the bulls aren't going to compromise their team for love's sake so noah is likely off the table)


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

*Re: Kevin Love*

LOL at the Lakers getting the #7 pick. Based on past luck I was thinking they'd snag a top 1-2. 

It's entirely possible this makes it more likely they will trade their pick. The T-Wolves could do alot worse in a Love trade than getting the #7 pick in a strong draft. Probably not a superstar to take there, but definitely tons of solid starter material and maybe even an all-star level talent if they choose well, or if someone like Julius Randle slips.

And Love does have a ton of leverage here b/c he can kill any trade deal by saying he will/won't sign an extension. So even if the Celtics or Cavs offer a higher pick, it won't matter if it trumps the Lakers' offer if Love will only extend with the Lakers.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

*Re: Kevin Love*



Da Grinch said:


> the knicks have a few guys (tyson chandler amar'e, bargnani, tim hardawayjr jr smith ) the lakers could offer pau in a sign and trade plus pick



That's several orders of magnitude worse than what the Bulls could offer.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: Kevin Love*



jnrjr79 said:


> That's several orders of magnitude worse than what the Bulls could offer.


its out there that the wolves dont really want youth , they want nba ready guys, they want to proceed and advance so we are talking about guys that make enough to make sign and trades feasible, the bulls have much greater assets in the sense of draft picks and rights to mirotic but that doesn't appear to align with the wolves desires

for the bulls thats taj and boozer , and taj makes around 8 so bodies have to added to his deal and how much would the bulls even be willing to add to make a deal happen....could and would are 2 different things. i assume while everyone speaks of rubio pulling for mirotic , he isn't a proven nba player , no one can say for sure that he even comes over or when that will be or even how nba ready he'll be when he gets here.

they could add butler , but after trading deng one would think they'd really want to avoid that...that would leave them with nothing that's proven to be a starter on the wings

so if we are talking about actual nba players and production tyson bargnani and stoudamire all had higher PERs than boozer last year and all are younger .

any package involving gibson is likely to be a better package(although the chances of a 3rd team being involved jumps up quite a bit) but boozer , not so much.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

*Re: Kevin Love*



Da Grinch said:


> its out there that the wolves dont really want youth , they want nba ready guys, they want to proceed and advance so we are talking about guys that make enough to make sign and trades feasible, the bulls have much greater assets in the sense of draft picks and rights to mirotic but that doesn't appear to align with the wolves desires
> 
> for the bulls thats taj and boozer , and taj makes around 8 so bodies have to added to his deal and how much would the bulls even be willing to add to make a deal happen....could and would are 2 different things. i assume while everyone speaks of rubio pulling for mirotic , he isn't a proven nba player , no one can say for sure that he even comes over or when that will be or even how nba ready he'll be when he gets here.
> 
> ...



I pretty strongly disagree with this. If Minny wants vets that are going to be real pieces to their team, none of Tyson, Bargnani, or Amare fits the bill. First, all three of them are expiring deals, so none is a long-term solution of any sort for Minny. Tyson is a productive, aging NBA player. Bargnani is terrible. Amare is not a full-time NBA player anymore. These guys have basically no value. None of them is any different from Boozer, in my opinion. They are all just salary cap space for 2015.

So, if it's space they want, Boozer is just as good as any of the aforementioned names. If it's productive NBA players they want, Gibson, Butler, and Dunleavy would all be highly superior prospects for them.

And, as you correctly mention, the Bulls are vastly better situated from a draft pick perspective. 

I also think it's incorrect to think that the Bulls would be hesitant to give up Butler in Love deal. Butler is a nice piece and all, but he's not someone who becomes a dealbreaker when you're bringing back an NBA star player. Defensive wings can be acquired much more easily than the Kevin Loves of the world.

Simply put, the Bulls can put together a much better package than the Knicks. They have expiring salary. They have quality NBA players. They have the rights to the best player outside the NBA. They have quite a few draft picks. More or less, the Bulls are stacked.


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## Wilt_The_Stilt (Jun 7, 2002)

*Re: Kevin Love*

I think the Bulls are an interesting option. If the Wolves are really interested in making the playoffs now they can get Gibson, Butler, Mirotic and picks while shedding some dead weight onto the Bulls.

If they are willing to be patient with the rebuild they can get the same package but with Boozer's expiring and a lotto pick from a 3rd team who get Gibson from the Bulls.


EDIT - Didn't realize the Celtics had cap space in addition to their trade exception. That makes them a more viable option for Love. So if Minny wants to tear it down, Boston has a strong offer.


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## Ballscientist (Nov 11, 2002)

*Re: Kevin Love*

Warriors plan to offer Klay Thompson (24 yrs old) and David Lee (30 yrs old).

Centerpiece: Healthy Thompson fit into Wolves' 10 years plan. Lee fit into Wolves' 5 years plan.

Lee is one of the few player who can have career average around double-double, and average field goal 53%.

Wolves don't want Lakers 7th pick as a centerpiece. What can you offer to defeat Warriors? What is your centerpiece who can fit into Wolves' 10 years plan?


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

*Re: Kevin Love*



Ballscientist said:


> Warriors plan to offer Klay Thompson (24 yrs old) and David Lee (30 yrs old).
> 
> Centerpiece: Healthy Thompson fit into Wolves' 10 years plan. Lee fit into Wolves' 5 years plan.
> 
> ...


Unless the Bulls are offering Derrick Rose, nothing the Bulls can offer will beat this offer. 

The Wolves getting back 38 ppg in return for a guy who will not resign is a steal. I honestly think its a HUGE win for the Wolves if they get this done. 
Lee is a double double machine and Klay Thompson is a young exciting player.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

*Re: Kevin Love*

David Lee might be a little better player than Taj in a vacuum, but Taj is a much better fit with Pekovic who they committed big money to, and 10x the defender of Lee. And BTW, Taj also costs $6M per year less than Lee (Lee makes $15M per season next year and the year after). So it is very arguable that Lee has more trade value from Minnesota's standpoint. 

Klay Thompson is an elite high-volume 3-pt shooter, but he is also highly redundant with Kevin Martin who is locked up for a few more years on a reasonable deal. They really could use a stopper like Jimmy instead, and then take our draft picks to round out with some young talent.

Taj+Jimmy+multiple 1st rounders doesn't look as good on paper as Lee+Thompson+whatever, but if Minny is trying to build a TEAM instead of just accumulating offensive talent, they would be smart to give the Bulls' package a good hard look. Let's also not forget the extra cap hits with Thompson coming up for a big extension and Lee already making huge money. They would also be sending Kevin Love to the eastern conference, rather than trading him to a rival who you'd be directly competing with for a playoff spot.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

*Re: Kevin Love*

That trade not only doesn't look good on paper, it's just flat out not as good as the golden state deal.

Those first round draft picks are somewhat worthless since the bulls are surely drafting very late in the first. And Taj Gison and Jimmy aren't players you can necessarily build around. Taj is a very good defender in the east and coming off the bench, does that mean he's going to be a great defender as a starter in the west against the elite Bigs in the west? 

Thompson is younger than Martin, they can easily move Martin to avoid the redundancy. Heck, they can easily draft a Jimmy butler type player in the draft and honestly they probably have their own Taj Gibson in the making in Gorgi Dieng.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

*Re: Kevin Love*



thebizkit69u said:


> Taj is a very good defender in the east and coming off the bench, does that mean he's going to be a great defender as a starter in the west against the elite Bigs in the west?



Yes.


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## PD (Sep 10, 2004)

*Re: Kevin Love*



thebizkit69u said:


> That trade not only doesn't look good on paper, it's just flat out not as good as the golden state deal.
> 
> Those first round draft picks are somewhat worthless since the bulls are surely drafting very late in the first. And Taj Gison and Jimmy aren't players you can necessarily build around. Taj is a very good defender in the east and coming off the bench, does that mean he's going to be a great defender as a starter in the west against the elite Bigs in the west?
> 
> Thompson is younger than Martin, they can easily move Martin to avoid the redundancy. Heck, they can easily draft a Jimmy butler type player in the draft and honestly they probably have their own Taj Gibson in the making in Gorgi Dieng.


I don't think you want to build around anyone in either the Bulls package or Warrior package. These are all good role players. You just have to compare who are better role players. You are trading a disgruntled player who is unwilling to sign an extension. You are not expecting to take back a star or an equal value. 

If they want that player, try to trade for a top 3 pick this year.


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## Ballscientist (Nov 11, 2002)

*Re: Kevin Love*

Suns would like to offer 4 late first rounders thru 3 teams plus a good player. The package is also attractive.

The problem is Wolves may not fall in love with late first rounders. They need to go to the 3rd team for a good player like Batum or Tony Allen.

Many of the late first rounders are waived.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

*Re: Kevin Love*



PD said:


> I don't think you want to build around anyone in either the Bulls package or Warrior package. These are all good role players. You just have to compare who are better role players. You are trading a disgruntled player who is unwilling to sign an extension. You are not expecting to take back a star or an equal value.
> 
> If they want that player, try to trade for a top 3 pick this year.


Yeah agreed, that is partly my point. David Lee & Klay Thompson are not stars, so why would you wanna build around them? That is just like the Bulls building around Luol Deng and Ben Gordon all those years...where did that get us? You'd be paying Lee $15M for the next few seasons and Thompson is going to command $10M+ per season. Both of those guys are atrocious defenders too. 

With Taj and Jimmy you are paying nearly half the price (I assume Jimmy gets a MLE type of extension), and can throw the saved dollars at upgrades elsewhere in their roster. And these are not late 1st rounders, they are the 16 and 19 in this year's draft presumably...mid-firsts in a strong draft.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

*Re: Kevin Love*



PD said:


> I don't think you want to build around anyone in either the Bulls package or Warrior package. These are all good role players. You just have to compare who are better role players. You are trading a disgruntled player who is unwilling to sign an extension. You are not expecting to take back a star or an equal value.
> 
> If they want that player, try to trade for a top 3 pick this year.


Well they can't trade for a top 3 pick because Love will not resign with any of the top 3 drafting teams. 

I agree that you wouldn't necessarily build around any of the names mentioned, but I think the Golden State deal makes the Wolves a better team in the short term and long term, more so than the Bulls trade. 



> With Taj and Jimmy you are paying nearly half the price


And they are half the players. 

The Wolves are desperate to make the playoffs, the Golden State package gets them closer to that goal. Having cap flexibility is all nice and wonderful when players actually wan't to go to your team (We should know, since we have failed in Free Agency MANY times), but sucks when they don't.


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

*Re: Kevin Love*

The real question is where will Love sign an extension, after they have traded for him. If GSW gives up Thompson that probably doesn't leave you with a team that is certain to do a lot in the West. You can talk all you want about what GSW might give up, but the real question is whether or not that leaves them with a team Love would stay with. Chicago has a pretty big advantage in that it's very easy to imagine a deal that leaves them as the second or third best team in the East.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: Kevin Love*



yodurk said:


> Klay Thompson is an elite high-volume 3-pt shooter, but he is also highly redundant with Kevin Martin who is locked up for a few more years on a reasonable deal.


This is like Celtics fans saying "Don't draft Gordon because you already have Sully to play PF!!!!!" It's stupid. You never say "I don't want this budding all-star that plays good D because I have a rapidly aging offensive roleplayer that's of no use to me" unless what you're trying to build is team heading deep into the lotto. (And I'm not saying that Sullinger is rapidly aging, Martin is, but Sullinger's a roleplayer-level talent and you never make decisions about stars/potential stars based on having a roleplayer that plays the same position.)

The NBA is a star driven league, Klay Thompson all by his lonesome is a better return than Gibson, Butler, multiple small #1s . Add in the rumours that Orlando might be willing to take Lee and you have the makings of a three way deal that tops pretty much any other realistic option that anyone could make (because Boston can't empty the cupboard for Love as Love and Rondo are both comically bad defenders and they would need _a lot_ of help to get out of the first round of the playoffs). Something along the lines of Lee to Orlando, Harrison Barnes, Klay Thompson and Jameer Nelson's non-guranteed contract to Minnesota and Love and Afflalo to Golden State.


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## transplant (Jul 31, 2002)

*Re: Kevin Love*

If I'm the TWolves, I want Gibson, the rights to Mirotic, at least one first-rounder and maybe Butler.

If I'm the Bulls, I say, "OK."


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## Wilt_The_Stilt (Jun 7, 2002)

*Re: Kevin Love*

Are the Warriors actually offering Thompson? If they are willing to part with Lee, Barnes, and Thompson then that would be a good win now (as in next year) move for Minny, and even better if they take back Martin and another contract.

But I don't understand the Orlando angle as mentioned. First off, why would Orlando want Lee? To make a playoff push? Then why give up Afflalo? Do they want a vet presence? Again, keep Afflalo and get a different vet 4 at a much lower price.

And if Minny doesn't get Lee how is it a win now move?

Outside of all that, is Minny willing to pay Rubio and Thompson's extensions? Wouldn't Lee still be on the last year of his contract?


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: Kevin Love*



Wilt_The_Stilt said:


> But I don't understand the Orlando angle as mentioned. First off, why would Orlando want Lee? To make a playoff push? Then why give up Afflalo? Do they want a vet presence? Again, keep Afflalo and get a different vet 4 at a much lower price.


Afflalo isn't a star, he's a three and D guy. Useful for a team hoping to make a playoff run, to be sure, but assuming the Magic take Exum then their starting backcourt is Exum/Oladipo and Afflalo's a luxury.


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## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: Kevin Love*



E.H. Munro said:


> Afflalo isn't a star, he's a three and D guy. Useful for a team hoping to make a playoff run, to be sure, but assuming the Magic take Exum then their starting backcourt is Exum/Oladipo and Afflalo's a luxury.


A luxury otherwise known as trade bait.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

*Re: Kevin Love*



transplant said:


> If I'm the TWolves, I want Gibson, the rights to Mirotic, at least one first-rounder and maybe Butler.
> 
> If I'm the Bulls, I say, "OK."


If that's the best offer then sure, but Im pretty sure they can get much better from others.


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## Ballscientist (Nov 11, 2002)

*Re: Kevin Love*



thebizkit69u said:


> If that's the best offer then sure, but Im pretty sure they can get much better from others.


Kevin Love is the top 5 players in the nba according to bay area local newspaper.

You are from Chicago ......


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## giusd (Apr 17, 2003)

*Re: Kevin Love*

Just my 2 cents but as much as I like David Lee he is 30 years old and makes 15 million dollars a year!! While he has a great O game he plays very weak D and is not exactly a bull under the basket and his rebounding is pretty average (OK still better than the boz). Two years from now his game will be pretty average. 

But what team is going to give up three starters for Kevin Love and draft picks? I mean come on he is good but not one of the 5 best players in the league and I think more like between 10 and 12 th best. Just my opinion. I think Minny is going to find out that no team is going to forfeit their future for Love.


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## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: Kevin Love*



giusd said:


> I think Minny is going to find out that no team is going to forfeit their future for Love.


There are a few teams that have compiled enough assets to make a substantial offer of young players and picks without having to forfeit their future. The Celtics, Warriors, and Suns (to name 3) could all make that happen.


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## Wilt_The_Stilt (Jun 7, 2002)

*Re: Kevin Love*

All depends on what Minny wants. Make the playoffs next year, or continue the rebuild?

Melo would be a better option for the Bulls either way.


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## DucksFlyHigh (May 27, 2014)

*Re: Kevin Love*

The Knicks need a junk yard dog on the inside. As much as everyone on the Knicks likes to shoot Kevin love would be a perfect piece to that puzzle. _ would keep Chandler and move Amare if  could. Hell  would give up JR Smith too. 'm tired of all his antics on the court and he's not consistent enough for me to put up with that if  were the GM. Amare doesn't do the dirty work that he used to do and frankly he hasn't been that great since Phoenix.  think he's washed up. Kevin Love is the piece they so desperately need._


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: Kevin Love*

Yeah, clearly the T'wolves would take the offer of Amar'e & J.R. Smith over just about any other. I mean, why wouldn't you?


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

*Re: Kevin Love*



Ballscientist said:


> Kevin Love is the top 5 players in the nba according to bay area local newspaper.
> 
> You are from Chicago ......


I have no idea what you are trying to say. No where in any of my posts have I even implied that Kevin love is not a top 5 top 10 player.


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## NK1990 (Mar 26, 2011)

*Re: Kevin Love*

Me and my dad have been saying it for a LONG time. A Powerforward and Center combo of Kevin Love and Joakim Noah would be AWESOME! However since I am from Minnesota...I wouldn't trade Kevin Love for anything LESS then the number 3 pick and other players. I don't think you guys have enough to offer the timberwolves without hurting your own team. If I were the Bulls I wouldn't give up the obvious two (Joakim Noah and Derrick Rose) BUT I wouldn't give up that shooting guard that has been improving for you guys the past couple years (sorry I can't think of his name).


Still it would be awesome for Kevin Love to not only team up with Joakim Noah (good luck getting a rebound against those guys together) but then having another athletic point guard similar to Kevin Loves former college teammate Russell Westbrook in Derrick Rose.


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## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: Kevin Love*



NK1990 said:


> Me and my dad have been saying it for a LONG time. A Powerforward and Center combo of Kevin Love and Joakim Noah would be AWESOME! However since I am from Minnesota...I wouldn't trade Kevin Love for anything LESS then the number 3 pick and other players. I don't think you guys have enough to offer the timberwolves without hurting your own team. If I were the Bulls I wouldn't give up the obvious two (Joakim Noah and Derrick Rose) BUT I wouldn't give up that shooting guard that has been improving for you guys the past couple years (sorry I can't think of his name).
> 
> Still it would be awesome for Kevin Love to not only team up with Joakim Noah (good luck getting a rebound against those guys together) but then having another athletic point guard similar to Kevin Loves former college teammate Russell Westbrook in Derrick Rose.


I agree with most of this. The difference is that if I were the Bulls, I would give up literally the rest of my entire roster for Love other than Rose/Noah. That would include my two first round draft picks this year and a future pick. If you can make that trio happen, you have to try it.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

*Re: Kevin Love*

Jackie MacMullan reports the Bulls have made an offer to Minny:



> There's only one problem with all these dizzying (and highly speculative) scenarios: They are meaningless unless the first domino -- Love actually coming to Boston -- falls. According to team and league sources, that isn't happening any time soon because the Timberwolves are less than enamored with what Boston can offer them.
> 
> The conversation would have adopted a completely different tone had the Celtics landed the first, second or third pick in the draft. The Timberwolves, like everyone else, covet the opportunity to have a crack at one of the troika of Joel Embiid, Andrew Wiggins and Jabari Parker.
> 
> ...


http://espn.go.com/boston/story/_/id/11033627/kevin-love-landing-boston-celtics-far-slam-dunk


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

*Re: Kevin Love*

From sportswriters I have been following, it seems the rumored deal seems to center around:

Boozer
Gibson
Butler

for Love.

No mention of picks or us taking any additional players back, but I would have to expect there would be some combination of this involved as well.


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## PD (Sep 10, 2004)

*Re: Kevin Love*



Rhyder said:


> From sportswriters I have been following, it seems the rumored deal seems to center around:
> 
> Boozer
> Gibson
> ...


And bring Deng back for the MLE. Wishful thinking.  

Noah, Love, and Deng frontcourt would be crazy.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

*Re: Kevin Love*



Rhyder said:


> From sportswriters I have been following, it seems the rumored deal seems to center around:
> 
> Boozer
> Gibson
> ...


This deal only happens if Love doesn't guarantee an extension.

This would be a poor deal for the T-Wolves as it doesn't make them any better in the present or future. You could argue that Boozers contract is a future asset, but so is Loves if he doesn't re-sign with them.

Bulls would have a redundancy if they have Love and Mirotic on the same team, no point in having 2 stretch 4's.


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## Ballscientist (Nov 11, 2002)

*Re: Kevin Love*

Boozer is likely to walk away if someone offer more money.

Without shoe, Gibson is 6'7" power forward and Center, he is around 29 years old now.

For the Wolves future, I take Klay Thompson over Gibson. For the next 3 years, I take David Lee over Boozer.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

*Re: Kevin Love*



Ballscientist said:


> Boozer is likely to walk away if someone offer more money.


Not sure what this means.



> Without shoe, Gibson is 6'7" power forward and Center.


No. http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Taj-Gibson-1164/



> For the Wolves future, I take Klay Thompson over Gibson. For the next 3 years, I take David Lee over Boozer.


Lee's contract is toxic. Boozer's is only one year. And the Warriors are supposedly unwilling to deal Thompson:

http://tracking.si.com/2014/05/20/klay-thompson-kevin-love-warriors-timberwolves-trade-nba/


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## MickeyMouseJordan23 (Jun 4, 2014)

*Re: Kevin Love*

Think the Timberwolves would take Tajh Gibson, 19th pick, and Jimmer Freddette for Kevin Love and Shabazz Muhammed.

Check out my article on the top 5 teams most likely to trade for Kevin Love.

http://www.draftutopia.com/minnesotatimberwolves.html


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## Ballscientist (Nov 11, 2002)

*Re: Kevin Love*



MickeyMouseJordan23 said:


> Think the Timberwolves would take Tajh Gibson, 19th pick, and Jimmer Freddette for Kevin Love and Shabazz Muhammed.
> 
> Check out my article on the top 5 teams most likely to trade for Kevin Love.
> 
> http://www.draftutopia.com/minnesotatimberwolves.html


Kevin Love wants to play for contender. I don't know you why you want him to play for 76ers ......

The only problem is that none of Bulls proposals will improve Wolves in the future! None!!

It is great ideas to bring both Love and Rubio to Bulls by giving them 33 years old Boozer, picks and some waiving goods.


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## PD (Sep 10, 2004)

*Re: Kevin Love*



MickeyMouseJordan23 said:


> Think the Timberwolves would take Tajh Gibson, 19th pick, and Jimmer Freddette for Kevin Love and Shabazz Muhammed.
> 
> Check out my article on the top 5 teams most likely to trade for Kevin Love.
> 
> http://www.draftutopia.com/minnesotatimberwolves.html


The author is clearly a Chicago Bulls fan. That would be robbery against the Wolves. I think if the Wolves decided to go with Chicago as a trading partner, Mirotic is gone. 

I could see Taj, right to Mirotic, this year's two first round picks, and Boozer for Love and fillers. 

Chicago is getting an all-star.

Min get solid starters.


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## Ballscientist (Nov 11, 2002)

*Re: Kevin Love*



PD said:


> The author is clearly a Chicago Bulls fan. That would be robbery against the Wolves. I think if the Wolves decided to go with Chicago as a trading partner, Mirotic is gone.
> 
> Min get solid starters.


You are talking about robbery against the Wolves. Does your name PD stands for Police Department?

No, none of them are solid starters in the western conference. They are solid starters for the lottery teams. Those new Min starters are not even better than Mavs or Grizz.


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## Ballscientist (Nov 11, 2002)

*Re: Kevin Love*



PD said:


> The author is clearly a Chicago Bulls fan. That would be robbery against the Wolves.


If you are from Police Department, please arrest all of the Bulls fans who are robbery suspects as soon as possible.

This is what the Celtics offer for Love: 

The No. 6 pick
the valuable future Brooklyn picks, 
the 17th pick this year, 
Jared Sullinger, 
Kelly Olynyk, 
Jeff Green, 
Brandon Bass, 
Keith Bogans' expiring $5.05 million contract


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

*Re: Kevin Love*

Science.


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## MickeyMouseJordan23 (Jun 4, 2014)

*Re: Kevin Love*

Just curious, who could make the best deal for Love. What do you think the Bulls would have to give up to get Love? I feel like Oklahoma City has the pieces to package a deal for Love with 2 first-round picks plus some outstanding bench guys that are extremely underrated. My problem with OKC trading for Love is that they lack the cap space to execute the transaction.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

*Re: Kevin Love*



MickeyMouseJordan23 said:


> Just curious, who could make the best deal for Love. What do you think the Bulls would have to give up to get Love? I feel like Oklahoma City has the pieces to package a deal for Love with 2 first-round picks plus some outstanding bench guys that are extremely underrated. My problem with OKC trading for Love is that they lack the cap space to execute the transaction.


I don't see this happening of course but just for fun...would the Timberwolves be a better team if they did this trade w/ OKC?

*OKC trades*: Russell Westbrook, Serge Ibaka, Kendrick Perkins
*TWolves trade*: Kevin Love, Ricky Rubio, Gorgui Dieng

Pros -- TWolves get a legit star player back for Love who has plenty of good years left. Ibaka is a terrific fit alongside Pekovic. Thunder pair up 2 of the best forwards in the NBA and have a solid facilitator in Rubio to get them the ball. Dieng is an upgrade to Perkins to rotate in/out with Adams.

Cons -- TWolves might want more?

Personally I think it's a good trade for both teams.

Thunder = Rubio, Lamb, Durant, Love, Adams (bench: Jackson, Thabo, Dieng)

Wolves = Westbrook, Martin, ??, Ibaka, Pekovic


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## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

*Re: Kevin Love*



yodurk said:


> I don't see this happening of course but just for fun...would the Timberwolves be a better team if they did this trade w/ OKC?
> 
> *OKC trades*: Russell Westbrook, Serge Ibaka, Kendrick Perkins
> *TWolves trade*: Kevin Love, Ricky Rubio, Gorgui Dieng
> ...


Don't see them giving up Westbrook. If Love goes to OKC (and it's not looking that way) the deal probably centers around Serge Ibaka. He's the type of rim protector that makes sense next to Pekovic and gives Minnesota a guy they can sell to their fans. OKC would basically be betting that Westbrook, Durant, and Love plus roleplayers (and Reggie Jackson somewhere in between) would be enough to blow the doors off anyone else.


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## Ballscientist (Nov 11, 2002)

*Re: Kevin Love*

That is great deal for Wolves. It is interesting to compare Westbrook and Ibaka proposal to Boozer and Gibson because of the age. (Boozer 34 and Gibson 30 next season?).

Rumors say Bulls will trade up for No. 11 pick.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

*Re: Kevin Love*



Bogg said:


> Don't see them giving up Westbrook. If Love goes to OKC (and it's not looking that way) the deal probably centers around Serge Ibaka. He's the type of rim protector that makes sense next to Pekovic and gives Minnesota a guy they can sell to their fans. OKC would basically be betting that Westbrook, Durant, and Love plus roleplayers (and Reggie Jackson somewhere in between) would be enough to blow the doors off anyone else.


I don't see any of this happening TBH. But do I think the Thunder *should* search for deals for Westbrook. I have said that for 2+ years and still feel that way. Westbrook is talented as hell but holding that team back. IMO they would get farther in the playoffs with Rubio starting and Durant/Love pouring in the points.


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

*Re: Kevin Love*

http://www.blogabull.com/2014/6/23/...aj-gibson-tony-snell-picks-bulls-timberwolves

Apparently we're offering Gibson, Snell, 16 and 19 for Love. (per Chad Ford)


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## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: Kevin Love*



Dornado said:


> http://www.blogabull.com/2014/6/23/...aj-gibson-tony-snell-picks-bulls-timberwolves
> 
> Apparently we're offering Gibson, Snell, 16 and 19 for Love. (per Chad Ford)


So the Bulls would keep Butler and then go after Melo in free agency? If that's the concept, I must say I'm intrigued.


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## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: Kevin Love*



yodurk said:


> I don't see this happening of course but just for fun...would the Timberwolves be a better team if they did this trade w/ OKC?
> 
> *OKC trades*: Russell Westbrook, Serge Ibaka, Kendrick Perkins
> *TWolves trade*: Kevin Love, Ricky Rubio, Gorgui Dieng
> ...


Trade makes too much sense to actually happen.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: Kevin Love*



RollWithEm said:


> So the Bulls would keep Butler and then go after Melo in free agency? If that's the concept, I must say I'm intrigued.


Would they have the cap space to take a run at Melo?

If so, that's a big power shift in the East, and the list of contenders.


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## Wilt_The_Stilt (Jun 7, 2002)

*Re: Kevin Love*



R-Star said:


> Would they have the cap space to take a run at Melo?
> 
> If so, that's a big power shift in the East, and the list of contenders.


Not outright. But they could try some combination of Boozer, Dunleavy, Butler, rights to Mirotic and future picks for Melo and Felton.


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## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: Kevin Love*



R-Star said:


> Would they have the cap space to take a run at Melo?
> 
> If so, that's a big power shift in the East, and the list of contenders.


If they get the Wolves to take back Dunleavy and then they amnesty Boozer while taking back only Love's contract (and not KMart's), they would still have max cap space after that deal. Rose/Butler/Melo/Love/Noah would still be a reality at that point. With no remaining first round draft picks, this would leave them with only those 5 under contract with the 49th overall pick being unguaranteed. They would basically have 8 more guys to add from the scrap heap... but still... wow.


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## Wilt_The_Stilt (Jun 7, 2002)

*Re: Kevin Love*



RollWithEm said:


> If they get the Wolves to take back Dunleavy and then they amnesty Boozer while taking back only Love's contract (and not KMart's), they would still have max cap space after that deal.


No.

Rose, Love, Noah, Butler, Greg Smith plus 7 cap holds leaves you just over $53 mil.

Not close to the max.


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## Ballscientist (Nov 11, 2002)

Your guys are very very lucky.

For your info

Warriors final offer was

Harrison Barnes, Draymond Green, David Lee and unprotected first round pick.

It was immediately rejected by Wolves. Warriors has given up.

Barnes is 22 years old and Green is 24 years old.


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## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: Kevin Love*



Wilt_The_Stilt said:


> No.
> 
> Rose, Love, Noah, Butler, Greg Smith plus 7 cap holds leaves you just over $53 mil.
> 
> Not close to the max.


What cap holds?


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## Wilt_The_Stilt (Jun 7, 2002)

*Re: Kevin Love*



RollWithEm said:


> What cap holds?


Minimum cap holds for having only 5 guys under contracts. They only total about $3.5 mil in this case. Either way their only chance for Melo if they get Love is a sign and trade.


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## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: Kevin Love*



Wilt_The_Stilt said:


> No.
> 
> Rose, Love, Noah, Butler, Greg Smith plus 7 cap holds leaves you just over $53 mil.
> 
> Not close to the max.


All they have to do is renounce those players with whom they have the cap holds and include the rights to Mirotic going to the Knicks in the Melo deal. Holds would be off the books.


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## Wilt_The_Stilt (Jun 7, 2002)

*Re: Kevin Love*



RollWithEm said:


> All they have to do is renounce those players with whom they have the cap holds and include the rights to Mirotic going to the Knicks in the Melo deal. Holds would be off the books.


You can't renounce these holds. See Larry ***** FAQ. They are incomplete roster charges at the rookie minmum scale that go away one by one (and giving you the same amount of rookie scale cap space back) as you sign the required minimum number of players.

But even without them the most you could offer Melo would be $12 mil.


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## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: Kevin Love*



Wilt_The_Stilt said:


> the most you could offer Melo would be $12 mil.


$13.5 mil with the new increased salary cap number this season. I guess they would have to backload the contract.


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

Suns can do better than these offers Wolves are getting.


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## Wilt_The_Stilt (Jun 7, 2002)

*Re: Kevin Love*



RollWithEm said:


> $13.5 mil with the new increased salary cap number this season. I guess they would have to backload the contract.


Yeah I was just doing the math off the top of my head. Either way they can only get Melo through a sign and trade.

What they should do:

Gibson, Butler two 1sts for Love

Boozer, Dunleavy, Snell, Mirotic and 2016 and 2018 1sts for Melo, Felton.


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## Wilt_The_Stilt (Jun 7, 2002)

Dissonance said:


> Suns can do better than these offers Wolves are getting.


Win now type moves?


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## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

Dissonance said:


> Suns can do better than these offers Wolves are getting.


But are they willing to do better? Would they include Dragic? All three firsts? A future first? Both Morris twins? If they were willing to include all those assets, sure they could put the best offer out there. I just don't think they want to gut their team to get it done.


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## Wilt_The_Stilt (Jun 7, 2002)

And does Love want to go to Phoenix?


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## Ballscientist (Nov 11, 2002)

We Warriors final offer was

Harrison Barnes, Draymond Green, David Lee and unprotected first round pick.

It was immediately rejected by Wolves. 

Compare

22 yrs old Barnes > #16 

24 yrs old Green > #19 

Lee > Gibson

The rest is immaterial. 

The biggest problem is Wolves won't be able to make the playoffs unless Wiggins and Parker drop to 16 and 19.


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

RollWithEm said:


> But are they willing to do better? Would they include Dragic? All three firsts? A future first? Both Morris twins? If they were willing to include all those assets, sure they could put the best offer out there. I just don't think they want to gut their team to get it done.





Wilt_The_Stilt said:


> And does Love want to go to Phoenix?


Both things I am unsure of. But it's right there for taking unless they had gotten word from back channels he doesn't want to go there and it's not worth it for them. Haven't heard any rumored offers from them though. Just they were going to make a run at him.

They could be waiting on Bledsoe's RFA status and lean him in that direction if they are willing to give him what he wants and may be more inclined to move him than Goran.


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## Ballscientist (Nov 11, 2002)

Centerpiece analysis:

Bulls fans call 30 years old Gibson a bona fide top player.

Celtics fans call 30 years old Gibson a role player.


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## Ballscientist (Nov 11, 2002)

Celtics fans think they have much better offer than Bulls 3 benches.

Bulls fans: Kevin Love is only interested in Warriors and Bulls.

Now Warriors deal is dead.


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## Knick Killer (Jul 16, 2006)

*Re: Kevin Love*



mvP to the Wee said:


> I hope Rubio is in Minnesota's ear about how playing with country-man Mirotic would keep him happy. I agree with the offer below, but I fear Boston might put together a better offer if they give up the lotto pick.
> 
> Anyways, assuming the offer mentioned above happens, sign Paul Pierce to MLE, DJ Augustin to BAE.
> 
> ...


If that's the Bulls 2014-15 roster, I'd have them headed to the NBA finals.


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## Ballscientist (Nov 11, 2002)

Value of Warriors final offer does not equal to Love.

Love = 10.0

Warriors each additional player is negative 1.0. = negative 3.0

Barnes = 4.0
Green = 3.0
Unprotected first round = 1.0
Lee = 3.0
Total 11.0

Too many players = -3.0

11.0-3.0 = 8.0

Total value
Warriors 8.0 
Wolves 10.0


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

Ballscientist said:


> Value of Warriors final offer does not equal to Love.
> 
> Love = 10.0
> 
> ...


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## Ballscientist (Nov 11, 2002)

*What is the difference?

Gibson is a bona fide top player, will trade for Kevin Love.

Boozer is a bona fide elite player, will trade for Melo.
*


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Dornado said:


>


Congrats on posting one of 3 gifs in the history of this site that is actually funny.

Enjoy other people using it all the time now and ruining my enjoyment of it. 


****ing kids and their loud music and hip t-shirts.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Ballscientist said:


> *What is the difference?
> 
> Gibson is a bona fide top player, will trade for Kevin Love.
> 
> ...


If this was 2 points larger in text size I would have replied with an actual answer.


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

Dornado said:


>


this is the reason I come here - genius - no, wait - _Super_ Genius


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

e-monk said:


> this is the reason I come here - genius - no, wait - _Super_ Genius


I just find myself wondering "What's that guy thinking right now? Is he solving complex problems? Does the Science Pepsi actually make him better at Science?"


If anyone is wondering why I capitalized the S in Science every time, its because that picture deserved the grammatical respect of it, that's why.


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