# Hawks @ Raptors, Nov. 10th



## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

<center><img height="34" width="532" src="http://images.tsn.ca/images/e/headers/nba-hawks-775x50.gif">​<table border="0" cellspacing="2"><tr><th><img height="143" width="100" src="http://pics.forecaster.ca/nba-player/0073.gif">​</th><th><img height="143" width="100" src="http://pics.forecaster.ca/nba-player/0420.gif">​</th><th><img height="143" width="100" src="http://pics.forecaster.ca/nba-player/1004.gif">​</th><th><img height="143" width="100" src="http://pics.forecaster.ca/nba-player/1490.gif">​</th><th><img height="143" width="100" src="http://pics.forecaster.ca/nba-player/0966.gif">​</th></tr><tr><th><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v129/speedythief/headtohead.jpg">​</th><th><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v129/speedythief/headtohead.jpg">​</th><th><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v129/speedythief/headtohead.jpg">​</th><th><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v129/speedythief/headtohead.jpg">​</th><th><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v129/speedythief/headtohead.jpg">​</th><tr><th><img height="143" width="100" src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v129/speedythief/fordbig1.jpg">​</th><th><img height="143" width="100" src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v129/speedythief/parkerbig1.jpg">​</th><th><img height="143" width="100" src="http://pics.forecaster.ca/nba-player/0297.gif">​</th><th><img height="143" width="100" src="http://pics.forecaster.ca/nba-player/0924.gif">​</th><th><img height="143" width="100" src="http://pics.forecaster.ca/nba-player/0268.gif">​</th></tr></table><table border="0" height="38" width="536" bgcolor="black" background="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v129/speedythief/nba-raptors.gif"><tr><td align="left" valign="middle">_........7:00 EST, RapsTV_</td><td align="center" valign="middle"></td></tr></table></center></center>
<table border="0" height="38" width="536" bgcolor="black"><td>Game 05 -- 10 November 2006​
Hawks (3-1) @ Raptors (2-2)
_Chris Bosh drained a game-winning three-point shot with 6 seconds left on the clock to defeat the Philadelphia 76ers Wednesday. Now the Raptors face the 3-1 Atlanta Hawks at the Air Canada Centre before embarking on a 5-game road trip. The Hawks have been playing good basketball, recently bagging an overtime win against LeBron James' Cavs. Centre Zaza Pachulia is averaging over 18 points per game in four contests and Joe Johnson nearly 28. The game is only being televised on Raptors NBATV and tips-off at 7PM EST._​</td></table>​</center>


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## CrookedJ (May 8, 2003)

Sheldon & ZaZa . . .congrats Atlanta on the ulgiest starting front court in the L.


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## billfindlay10 (Jan 24, 2003)

I am glad I have Raptors TV......but tonight is the opening game for the highschool team I coach. We play at 8:00pm Atlantic time, lets hope for a 1-0 start to the season......I guess I will have to catch the Raptors on "Game in an Hour".

Toronto 106 Atlanta 92.

I think the game vs. the Sixers will give us some confidance, we will come out strong.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

The two guys that normally kill us on the Hawks are both gone from that team. Hopefully we can get their bigs into foul trouble and let Bosh run the table on them.


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## billfindlay10 (Jan 24, 2003)

Sheldon Williams will have a hard time with Bosh when he faces up and looks to drive. I would love to see Barnani get some burn vs. Zaza.


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## shookem (Nov 1, 2005)

Man, Hotlanta sure is a better team this year.

I'm glad I've got RapsTV, believe it or not this is the first game I'll be able to watch live.

My g/f asked if I wanted to go to a rock show tonight ... "Sorry, hon, I've ... uh ... got work early the next day ... uh ... actually, I just want to watch the Raps, see ya!"

I'm predicting a win (duh) 100- 96 Raps.


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## CrookedJ (May 8, 2003)

billfindlay10 said:


> Sheldon Williams will have a hard time with Bosh when he faces up and looks to drive. I would love to see Barnani get some burn vs. Zaza.



I think they'll have Josh Smith on Bosh quite a bit. They can play Childress at the three and Smith at the 4. Despite starting, shledon is averaging less than 20 a game.

Glad I have Raps TV!


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## madman (Oct 20, 2003)

Should be a win for us, yes Atlanta is better then last year, but so are we. Stupid RaptorsTV i might have to go to the game


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## ballocks (May 15, 2003)

in terms of specific matchups, i'm looking forward to seeing andrea & josh. to this point in his career, i don't think andrea's seen (let alone played against) anyone like josh, and i think he could have a really tough time with josh's physical gifts and rabid energy. it could be highly entertaining, i'd want to see how andrea would respond, but it might be moot since he (bargnani) might not play very much at all tonight.

the hawks look like they've got a lot of talent on their team. i've never really been impressed by mike woodson but the roster itself looks complete (imo). if marvin hadn't got injured, i think they could've been the great surprise of this season- they might still be, who knows. 

peace


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

I would think AB would matchup against Zaza,


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## billfindlay10 (Jan 24, 2003)

JuniorNoboa said:


> I would think AB would matchup against Zaza,



Me too.

If not Zaza, then Wright, or Sheldon.


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## CrookedJ (May 8, 2003)

Doug Smith is reporting that Speedy Claxton will not play, Tyrone " I can't believe he is still in the NBA" Lue will start.


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## Dee-Zy (Jan 12, 2006)

CrookedJ said:


> Doug Smith is reporting that Speedy Claxton will not play, Tyrone " I can't believe he is still in the NBA" Lue will start.


 
Lue had a huge game the other day and Hawks are #1 in their division.


yeah, it's crazy


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## billfindlay10 (Jan 24, 2003)

I don't think that there is a guard in the league that I hate watching more then Lue. There is just something about him that rubs me the wrong way :curse:


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

Damn, I didn't think Lue was still on that team.


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## crimedog (Jun 3, 2003)

speedythief said:


> Damn, I didn't think Lue was still on that team.


I was wondering who the two you were talking about were, cause I was going to say Lue has always burned us. And he burned the cavs the other night by sending the game to OT. Hopefully TJ and Jose can stay in front of him.


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## CrookedJ (May 8, 2003)

Dee-Zy said:


> Lue had a huge game the other day and Hawks are #1 in their division.
> 
> 
> yeah, it's crazy


So its opposite land . . .where hot snow falls up?


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## BaLLiStiX17 (Mar 27, 2005)

Some update guys?


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## Rhubarb (Mar 19, 2005)

Raps down 28-16 end of 1st.

7-27 from the field, getting killed on the glass 19-8.

Mo with 10 points.


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## TRON (Feb 29, 2004)

:hurl: 

25% from the field, 

Toronto Bricklayers


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

So much for the home team getting the calls/


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## Rhubarb (Mar 19, 2005)

JJ has a hot hand right now. Nailing everything in sight.


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## kindred (Dec 26, 2004)

TOs are killing us....and getting killed on board doesn't help either...


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## BaLLiStiX17 (Mar 27, 2005)

Bosh 1-7 ?


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## JS03 (Jan 5, 2005)

Johnson now with 20 points.. =/


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## o.iatlhawksfan (Mar 3, 2006)

suprised to see the new and improved Hawks huh?


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## kindred (Dec 26, 2004)

Hawks are playing good no doubt...but I don't think they are that good on D...though I am not sure since I can't watch the game...


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## BaLLiStiX17 (Mar 27, 2005)

Suprised were only losing by 9


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## JS03 (Jan 5, 2005)

End of the 1st half...47-38 Hawks
=/


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## shookem (Nov 1, 2005)

Is TJ too good for this team? He's making plays but no one is finishing. Off of Kris's finger tips and AP air ball from three. C'mon!


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## MonkeyBallZJr (May 7, 2004)

what's going on? Bosh seems to be struggling from the box score. Our problem is that there's no solidified second scorer, one night it may be Mopete and the next it's Anthony Parker we need to establish this.


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## shookem (Nov 1, 2005)

MonkeyBallZJr said:


> what's going on? Bosh seems to be struggling from the box score. Our problem is that there's no solidified second scorer, one night it may be Mopete and the next it's Anthony Parker we need to establish this.


AP looked good late in the second Q and was a big part of the increase defensive intesity. That air ball at the end was brutal though.


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## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

Did the refs show up?

Mid-way through the 3rd quarter, and only 12 FTA for the two teams.


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## kindred (Dec 26, 2004)

Bargani - 4 fouls in 7 mins of playing time, ouch...


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

Chris Bosh just got a handjob from Zaza while driving in (handchecking once is no good, but if you do it eight times in a row in the same possession I guess its OK). i guess they just threw the rulebook out the door.


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## Vinsane (Feb 27, 2005)

................
The Hawks


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

Thought the refs were questionable... but both ways. and no way do I want to blame them for the loss, despite my earlier post.

We were beat, played poorly, and Hawks played well


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## NeoSamurai (Jan 16, 2003)

man, the hawks really impressed me tonight...everytime we had an opportunity to tie up the game, they responded with a big three from Josh Smith, Lue or a score inside under the bucket by Childress...

we started out slow and it burnt us in the end...


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

Totally missed this game... anyone care to elaborate?


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## jibe (Nov 11, 2006)

barnani is a bust garbahosa is garbage this is nba not 3 on 3


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## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

Fred Jones is going to be a big acquisition for you guys. He almost brought the Raps back from the deficit by himself. Wasn't impressed with your Euros. Bosh couldn't get in sync the entire game, until it was too late.

Josh Smith & Joe Johnson played like beasts.


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

7 minutes to go, Bosh gets the Raps within 2 with a short fadeaway after almost losing the ball off the dribble. Josh Smith hits a 3pt shot to make it 5 point lead. Bosh gets stripped and Atlanta scores...7 point lead. Still a 7 point lead with 5 minutes left, Bosh gets stripped again, Atlanta scores on 2 FT's and its a 9 point lead. That was it. Close as we got.

Bosh is an emerging superstar and is rebounding like Ben Wallace this season but he does have that one glaring weakness of getting stripped. Everyone else is a second tier player. Not blaming Bosh for the loss at all. This isn't a VC situation where our best player refuses to do what is necessary for us to win. Bosh just can't carry the whole load yet.

What I dont understand is how our D is equally bad to last year when we have added Rasho, Fjones, AParker, Garbajosa, and Bosh is playing much harder/better on D. I just don't get it. We should be better, even with all the new guys developing chemistry. But we still give up 50% FG every night.

Raps got spanked at home by ATL. Are we going to call ATL an elite team now? They are clearly improving and developing nice chemistry with those great athletes with nice length, but we have to win these type of home games.

Calderon was great and really kept us in the game in the second Q.

TJ can't make a layup or a foul shot. Very nice.

Hawks really went at Bargnani defensively. He was doing OK but didn't keep his arms vertical and got called for cheap fouls. Hurt us at a critical time.

Garbajosa just looks horrible since the real games started. Zero confidence on O and not making an impact on D either. He needs to play better just so we can move him at the deadline to a contender.

Parker and MoP are our best defenders by far and they can't even slow anyone down.

Could be an ugly year. We sure aren't getting the same foul calls we got in pre-season. Refs are letting lots of contact go. And a few key calls hurt us tonight like the Graham push off on the fast break.


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## shapeshifter (Jun 13, 2005)

I'm curious to see how this team will do on the road... i hoping that the pressure of playing at home for the new guys will dissipate and they can get rolling. It will be a great chance for this team to gel together off the court. 

Sam seems to be a great motivator, but as a head coach?


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## mysteral (Jul 20, 2004)

atlent45 said:


> I'm curious to see how this team will do on the road... i hoping that the pressure of playing at home for the new guys will dissipate and they can get rolling. It will be a great chance for this team to gel together off the court.
> 
> Sam seems to be a great motivator, but as a head coach?


Good post ! I totally agree...


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## undefined_playa (Oct 23, 2005)

I was @ the game and I can honestly say...
Garbajosa is HORRIBLE; he has shown NO offensive skills and his defensive is poor at BEST...Humphries and Graham had some crucial TOs late in that pretty much cost us the game

On another note, Freddy, Calderon, and Mo were great
Rasho was non-existent....I honestly didn't know he played that day


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

jibe said:


> barnani is a bust garbahosa is garbage this is nba not 3 on 3


Post of the year?


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## DWADE4 (Aug 18, 2006)

Where are all the posters who were soooo high on the EUROS? Saying BC did a great job adding "depth" with these Euros. I always said they could be good players outside but the NBA is totally different. Jorge. cant make a shot , and Andrea is a natural Euro coming into the NBA who cant stay out of foul trouble and and confused when on the court. Why couldnt BC just sign American players who are fimilar with this style of play, and draft a rookie who could make a impact right away ie. Brandon Roy, Adam Morrison, or Rudy Gay, unlike selecting these PROJECTS who will take 4-5 years to show us what they are about.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

^ Would you rather have a dollar now or ten dollars next week?


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## DWADE4 (Aug 18, 2006)

speedythief said:


> ^ Would you rather have a dollar now or ten dollars next week?



The ten dollars isnt guaranteed.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

DWADE4 said:


> The ten dollars isnt guaranteed.


Yeah but that's what the draft is about, right? You put together all of the knowledge you have, get all the best people you can to give their say, compile all of the scouting you've done for the last few years, and make an educated guess. Nothing is guaranteed either way.

It's not like 1992 where Shaq and Zo were coming out. The best college players this year were Morrison and Redick. It was the right kind of draft for us to take a flyer, IMO. I don't think we're going read about how silly we were for passing on player X or player Y in ten years.


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## ballocks (May 15, 2003)

a couple of things continue to jump out at me: 

1) garbajosa. he is looking worse with every game, which is hard to explain given how poorly he began the season. i don't like the 'look' on his face- if i had to guess, i'd say that he doesn't seem to perceive his own mistakes. he commits the same types of errors regularly and i'm a little troubled myself. he's in a new league that probably plays a vastly different style than the one to which he's grown accustomed and he has to learn to deal with that. to this point in the season he looks like a player in denial, which doesn't bode very well for our team.

in terms of something specific, jorge is without question (in my world) a player with among the worst nba rebounding habits on our team- and i know that's saying quite a bit right now. if he does to choose to box out (which is more rare than reported), he concedes floor space too easily. i remember him being advertised as 'tough' when he got here- but i've seen quite the opposite in games one through five. second, even when he retains his position under the boards- this is one of the more ridiculous things i've noticed- he almost tries to catch the ball in his _chest_. almost like he's expecting it to fall into his body and/or not expecting his opponent to battle for it himself (i.e. he's expecting his check to rebound like he does). how weak is the rebounding game in europe? i'm not sure but if jorge serves as any indication, it can't be pretty. 

finally, in terms of team rebounding, i don't think he fully understands his role when he comes into the game (yet). think about it: how many times have we already seen chris bosh (midway through the first quarter... after rasho goes to the bench) seem like a monster under the boards? to me, it seems that way not because he's necessarily a monster, but rather because he's the only one actually down there. jorge spends too much time around the perimeter, i find, especially when the ball's in the air, and chris has to pay for it more often than not. what this also does is create more traffic around the perimeter- we now have four men behind the arc instead of three, which does nothing for bosh, neither does it do anything for our guards who are looking for their own space. you almost couldn't devise a more impotent half-court set than the one we've seen.

garbajosa had two rebounds last night. two. i think he should've had at least six or seven (watch the game again- i promise you'll see them). that's unacceptable and i wouldn't be playing him until he displayed some courage to fight for the ball under the hoop. it's not easy, no- but playing in denial helps nobody and only hurts our team. get down there and _fight_, jorge. do you not see that chris is practically crying foul right now, finding himself battling for the ball versus 4 players? 

2) bargnani does not look like a raptor. he had a decent game against atlanta, and that's hard to believe. imo, and i could be wrong here, he just doesn't feel like a part of the team. some of that would have to do with the team, but i think more of it has to do with andrea- i think he's probably been facing so much distraction that actually playing hard and willing games isn't coming naturally to him at the moment. i have yet to see any fire in his face, certainly not the kind exemplified in those pre-draft videos that made the rounds. he almost looks like he's waiting for the game to end so he could go do... whatever he deems to be more important. that bothers me. it bothers me that losses don't appear to bother him yet, failure of any kind doesn't seem to bother him- i think the only reason he's looked even halfway decent is his tremendous skillset. otherwise, i don't think he cares. he doesn't look like he's even checked the standings, i'd be surprised if he even knew the teams in our division or how nba playoff rankings are determined. he's the only raptor i ever see tugging on his shorts- and it couldn't be because he's spent; it looks like he's more ready to yawn out of disinterest. we need to make him a raptor asap because he could certainly help.

3) the best unit we put on the floor last night (imo) helps to further confirm my longstanding opinion that a lot of this is simply going to take time: calderon, graham, peterson, bosh and jones (early in the fourth). that's our four holdovers from last year plus fred jones. i don't think it's a coincidence. they were moving the ball like they knew where they were going to be. it'll just take time before tj writes a chapter with every player on the roster and our teamplay responds accordingly. until then, it'll probably look ugly. but some patience is in order- i think it'll look better as the season progresses.

4) i'm not sure where bosh's "90% from the line" went. i think he was 5/9 against the hawks, and while most of those misses are acceptable to me, i don't like his inability to convert three-point plays. he misses the and1 free throw way too often for me, and each of those misses represents a failed opportunity to either swing the momentum in our favour or set us off on an enormous run. we have to make those shots- they come just one at a time, i know, but they are important. missing them right now is, i think, more damaging to our team psyche than missing two conventional free throws. i want chris and tj to start converting them. those are often inflection points in games. they're jalen rose shots. we have to hit them. those are huge points. 

5) atlanta is good. let's forget about the past because these guys can play. their future looks excellent, imo.

peace


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## jibe (Nov 11, 2006)

barg an garb have not found there comfort zone yet at the end of the bench. i like parker jones joey kris and even rasho. and if pape comes back the raps will be okay. not a playoff team but entertaining i hope. after this road trip out west we will now who the players are cause the bench will have to contribute.


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

ballocks,

I have no idea what is happening with Garbo. Haven't watched his rebounding technique closely yet. But I think the step up in competition from pre-season to now has surprised him, and he's lost some confidence. Frankly, I never felt his D rotations were that good to justify the high praise he was getting, but the Raps may have changed their rotations from last year.

As for Bargnani I don't think he feels like a Raptor that much. Guys who don't get much PT are never going to take losses as hard as the guys who actually play. They feel that they were not a part of the outcome. Add in the fact that Sam is forcing Bargs to play nba Center when his skill set is Euro wing and he probably feels quite confused about why Toronto picked him first overall. Bargs needs PT for many reasons, and will eventually get it.

Bosh's FT problems are purely a conditioning thing. He is still getting into shape and being tired at the FT line always leads to lower percentages. It will climb.


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

DWADE4 said:


> Where are all the posters who were soooo high on the EUROS? Saying BC did a great job adding "depth" with these Euros. I always said they could be good players outside but the NBA is totally different. Jorge. cant make a shot , and Andrea is a natural Euro coming into the NBA who cant stay out of foul trouble and and confused when on the court. Why couldnt BC just sign American players who are fimilar with this style of play, and draft a rookie who could make a impact right away ie. Brandon Roy, Adam Morrison, or Rudy Gay, unlike selecting these PROJECTS who will take 4-5 years to show us what they are about.


would you like to hold off your WHINING until we're actually at point in the season where we can see wheere we are headed?


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## ballocks (May 15, 2003)

lucky777s said:


> As for Bargnani I don't think he feels like a Raptor that much. Guys who don't get much PT are never going to take losses as hard as the guys who actually play. They feel that they were not a part of the outcome. Add in the fact that Sam is forcing Bargs to play nba Center when his skill set is Euro wing and he probably feels quite confused about why Toronto picked him first overall. Bargs needs PT for many reasons, and will eventually get it.


golden state is only game 7 so it's still early, no doubt, but i think bargnani and the rest of the team have shown me enough (especially after sac last night): it's time for bargnani to get real minutes. his role off the bench to this point has hardly given the players ahead of him in the rotation (namely garbajosa) a positive charge, and i'm starting to feel that bargnani is finding his gears, too. he's slow to react defensively but let's be serious, so is everyone else up front. on the offensive end, you can just tell that he's getting more comfortable since he's setting the high screen without thinking about it anymore, more promptly and intuitively than ever, and rolling off of it more naturally than before. he's more into the offense than his peers on his bench and i think he wants to get himself established now.

i think i would start him against the warriors. i'd even start him for parker, but that's just a fleecy opinion today. if i had to, i'd rationalize his start like this: bosh still looks uncomfortable with andrea on the floor. he even defers to him. but we've all noted how poised and fiery bosh comes out of the gate in the first q. if we started these two alongside each other, something would have to give. 

peace


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