# Is your mindset changing?



## loyalty4life (Sep 17, 2002)

The Blazers were off to a great start, and got us pumping at the beginning with hope and excitement. Now, obviously that excitement has cooled down a bit, and we're losing on a fairly frequent basis.

So, I just wanted to ask: Is your mindset changing? Specifically, has your attitude on this season changed?

For me, it has. It looked for a while that we had the possibility of perhaps nabbing a playoff spot if we do well enough. Now, that idea is all but over. So, as it has been well mentioned before, there is a *great* draft class approaching in 2007. I would not mind seeing this season in the 20-30 win range if it means we have a chance to get a top 3 pick, especially the #1 (Oden... oh, the possibilities). 

So, again, has your mindset changed at all? Now, I've basically just readjusted my mind to where losing is okay for me this year, with little disappointment. I don't mind waiting another year to see how this team could be drastically improved.


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## MAS RipCity (Feb 22, 2003)

Yea, I am now more preparing my self for the team to lose. Man all my teams suck in sports, this blows.


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

I was thinking we'd be a mid 20 win team, so no.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

Schilly said:


> I was thinking we'd be a mid 20 win team, so no.


interesting, I had set my expectations higher than whats realistic, and every time the team doesn't live up up those expectations, I hyperbole.

I mean, how is it that Martell isn't playing to MY personal standards?


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## alext42083 (Nov 7, 2003)

Certainly, losing eight of the last 10 isn't something to get excited about. And those two wins come against New Jersey.
While it's disheartening, we're not even one-fifth through the year.
The Blazers need to win these next two games (Orlando and Atlanta) to get any confidence heading into that brutal six-game, nine-day road trip.
If Brandon can come back, play the rest of the season, and if Martell can get it going somehow, and the team plays hard and wins 30 plus games, I'll be happy.
I just hate this looking ahead to the draft already. The season just started.


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## Xericx (Oct 29, 2004)

no. still lovin' the team and direction. kind of worried about the 1/2/3 spot with so many young guys competing for minutes, but that's no problem. 

Outlaw is turning into one of my favorites on the floor. He's been looking better and better!:clap2:


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## Samuel (Jan 1, 2003)

I thought Portland would win 30-35 games, and I stand by that prediction.

But if health remains an issue, things could get ugly like last year.


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## dudleysghost (Mar 24, 2006)

Mines the same, but I've been looking forward to the 2007 draft since after the AS break last season. I liked the moves management made this summer a lot, but they seemed to be more for the future than the present. Late last season Nate said publicly that he wanted us to trade the pick for a veteran guard, but instead the team went out and bought two more picks!

AFter the draft and the Magloire trade, I was looking forward to an estimated 32 win season, which would be an improvement but still more losses than wins. The team played well and I adjusted my expectations to a 32-36 range. I was surprised by how good and how NBA ready Roy and Aldrige play, and also how poorly Magloire has played. Now my expectations, after wobbling only a little, are back at 32 wins for the season.

We're about at that pace right now, and it will probably continue. That should give us a top 10 pick in the draft next season, or better depending on how the league shakes out. Right now we have the 10th worst record in the league, but I think the Wiz, Bulls, Bucks, Nets will definitely pick up their winning pace. Even Philly, Charlotte and Toronto potentially will, and Memphis definitely will when Gasol gets back. Of the teams ahead of us, I don't see many dropping below except maybe Boston, Atlanta or Seattle. In short, we're going to have a nice draft pick.

I think management just built the team for the future. There was an interview somewhere with Pritchard, who basically admitted as much. He said that if they wanted, management could make trades and make us a winning team right now, but they wanted to do it slowly in a way that could make us an eventual contender. The fact that they didn't get Nate a veteran guard, through trade or using the MLE, tells me that they aren't trying to win more games this season.

Just judging by the moves made this summer, I think management is targetting the 2007-2008 season to actually try to push for wins. We have piles of young talent now, we'll add another piece and then examine how it all fits together. I expect to see some major trades and a MLE FA signing (if there is salary room after trades) to bring in veteran talent, rather than more young talent. When we stop acquiring young players and start acquiring proven veterans, that's when you will know that management has decided to end the rebuilding and start winning. It hasn't happened yet, but I expect it to start in the summer of 2007.


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## dudleysghost (Mar 24, 2006)

Hap said:


> interesting, I had set my expectations higher than whats realistic, and every time the team doesn't live up up those expectations, I hyperbole.
> 
> I mean, how is it that Martell isn't playing to MY personal standards?


I'm also disappointed with Martell. Near the end of last season it really looked like he was making strides on both ends of the court, and I fully expected him to take the starting SF spot from the injured Miles this year, even before I knew Miles would be out with MF. Right now though, he looks worse than Udoka and Outlaw at SF and Dixon at SG. He's in Stephen Graham territory, and that's disappointing. He's still very young, and I'm definitely not giving up on him or anything, but I just expected a lot more.


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## dkap (May 13, 2003)

I'll only be satisfied if we lose bad enough to nab 2 of the top 3 picks in this year's draft...

Dan


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## dkap (May 13, 2003)

... which brings up an interesting question. Hypothetically speaking, let's say a team lands the 1st and 3rd picks and believes that Durant is a true franchise player and that Noah might be as effective as Oden. Taking Oden first means likely missing out on Durant. Would any GM be brave enough to take Noah or Durant first, knowing: a) that the team picking second would take Oden (thus giving them the two players they want), and b) that they would be second guessed for it the next 15+ years?

Dan


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## sports4life (Nov 19, 2006)

Our DEFENSE will make or break our season. At this level there should be no excuse for not being able to execute on defense. A player may have an off night on the offensive end but having a off night on the defensive end is hard to explain. Glad to see Joel is back..........but our defense is not competitive right now. That is all about attitude and not seeing that is the difference between a playoff team and a team that consist of players who think the other guy should have guarded that guy. When you are getting paid to play you would think if for no other reason you would want the fans to watch you work rather than go at 50% on Defense. If this team does not pick up on defense they will not be a playoff team.............no defense means no fast break points and it allows the opponent all the time in the world to set up and play defense against us. AGE has nothing to do with what you should be doing on defense......I am so tired of hearing well this guy is 19 or this guy is 20 etc.............You know what? If you are playing pro ball............you should be able to shuffle your feet and deny the pass and block out.........


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## dudleysghost (Mar 24, 2006)

dkap said:


> ... which brings up an interesting question. Hypothetically speaking, let's say a team lands the 1st and 3rd picks and believes that Durant is a true franchise player and that Noah might be as effective as Oden. Taking Oden first means likely missing out on Durant. Would any GM be brave enough to take Noah or Durant first, knowing: a) that the team picking second would take Oden (thus giving them the two players they want), and b) that they would be second guessed for it the next 15+ years?
> 
> Dan


Now, if that GM really believes that Durant is a better talent than Oden, then he will be second guessed, but he should go with his own personal feeling. What I think you are saying though is that if a team had needs at SF and C, they would try to game the system to fill more of their needs.

It makes sense in theory, but in practice it's not a good idea. First of all, if Oden were only projected to be as effective as Noah, then it wouldn't be an issue, but that's not the case. What you are talking about is potentially passing up on the best player in favor of one who may not be as good with the first pick, just so you can fill positions of need better. I don't like that at all. Take the best player available with a high draft pick, always. The team is still in transition and still sorting out who will play for them in the future. If we have too much talent at one position, we can patiently work to trade it later, but the draft is about maximizing pure talent, especially in the top 5.

And anyway, this draft looks full of other good SF prospects. Noah is not as good as Oden, but he may be about equivalent to some of those other prospects. If we had #1 and #3, we should pick Oden, let #2 pick Durant and still pick the BPA with #3. If that's Noah, then we have a pile of great big men and we can trade one later. If that's someone at a different position, then it isn't an issue. Or, we could trade down the #3 if another great asset was offered.


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## Todd (Oct 8, 2003)

dudleysghost said:


> I'm also disappointed with Martell. Near the end of last season it really looked like he was making strides on both ends of the court, and I fully expected him to take the starting SF spot from the injured Miles this year, even before I knew Miles would be out with MF. Right now though, he looks worse than Udoka and Outlaw at SF and Dixon at SG. He's in Stephen Graham territory, and that's disappointing. He's still very young, and I'm definitely not giving up on him or anything, but I just expected a lot more.



His back is still bothering him. Roy said Websters back was still bothering him in his status video.


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## Verro (Jul 4, 2005)

dkap said:


> ... which brings up an interesting question. Hypothetically speaking, let's say a team lands the 1st and 3rd picks and believes that Durant is a true franchise player and that Noah might be as effective as Oden. Taking Oden first means likely missing out on Durant. Would any GM be brave enough to take Noah or Durant first, knowing: a) that the team picking second would take Oden (thus giving them the two players they want), and b) that they would be second guessed for it the next 15+ years?
> 
> Dan


If Oden is still considered the consensus #1 at that point, you trade the 1st for the 2nd and whatever else they throw in(additional picks or young talent).


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## mgb (Jun 26, 2004)

I've felt we would win 35 all along and still think so. Hopefully we'll get better as the season goes along. A lot of our players showed up early to work together so I wasn't surprised about the fast start or that we wouldn't keep that pace early. I also don't see us having the nose dive we did at the end of the season last year because I think most of the players we have now will keep trying to get better even when we have no chance of making the playoffs.

Anyone hear Jack, I think it was Jack, after the game? When ask about the Pacers taking control late in the game Jack said they have been to the playoffs for a while now and knows what it takes and how to finish with a win in those circumstances. That's not exactly what he said but basically, and then he said we should be there in a few years.,,,,then quickly said by the end of the season.


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## Utherhimo (Feb 20, 2005)

yeah webster is playing hurt 

i predicted 30 to 35 wins thats where it seems to be headed, oden hasnt played a lick of college ball I will wait to see how he does agianst stronger computition before calling him the clear cut #1 draft pick. right now he is THE most over-hyped player in college right now. 

Maybe roy's injury is a phantom injury like david robinson when the spurs got tim duncan, the blazers were doing too good so they sidelined roy for a while thus no surgery and the boot.

I am hoping we getting the number 5 slot which has a good chance of getting a top 3! If we get the number 1 we try to do a deal for the #2 plus another first rounder or something, if we cant get a good deal we just draft Durant and hope to swing a deal for a center later.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Haha...

All the Noah talk. The guys is so overrated its not even funny. I've been saying this since last year and a thing hasn't changed. He averaged like 15 and 8 in the tournament last year and happened to be a vibrant figure, who took in most the credit on a very good overall Florida team (who is loaded with pro's). He's a tad bit better version of Anderson Varejao (and no, I'm not taking looks into account). He has no offensive game, most of his points are chippies and he likes to run down the court screaming after every play he makes, no matter how irrelevant the play is. The other night I watched him get bullied around by Kansas freshman Darrell Arthur... If he gets bullied around by Darrell Arthur, I squirm when pondering how he does against the big's of the NBA.


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## Utherhimo (Feb 20, 2005)

well we know more about him than we do Oden and people are jumping up and drooling drooling all over a plaer who has yet to play a single ncaa game! now that is what I find really sad, you want to talk about over-hyped right now Oden be thy name. But, he could prove me wrong and I hope he does but saving my drool for when he actually does something in the league.


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## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

No, mine is the same. Young inexperienced team, a coach that would rather play Jamaal Magloire, who sucks, than develop the #2 pick in the draft, who also prefers an antiquated offense that is extremely easy to defend. A rotation that includes Steven Graham, Dan Dickau, Joel Przybilla, Jamaal Magloire, Raef LaFrentz, Ime Udoka along with rookies Roy, Aldridge and Rodriguez isn't going to win a lot of games. 

Joel is a great guy, but him coming back doesn't help us win games like Roy will. Until we get Roy back at full strength I would expect more and more losses. Teams have figured out how to easily defeat the Blazers, and that is by doubling and tripling Zach. He will get his points, but his % has been going down, and will probably continue to do so until someone can take pressure off of him.


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## Yega1979 (Mar 22, 2003)

Mine has changed. We're digging ourselves into a hole here and playing some pretty sloppy basketball. When Roy returns, I think he can make us a .500 team, from here on out, but he may not even be capable of raising us that level, and we'll fall short of the playoffs in either case.


Anyhow, last year Portland did the exact same thing, started off playing good basketball with good synergy, then wound up sucking.


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## It's_GO_Time (Oct 13, 2005)

Yega1979 said:


> Mine has changed. We're digging ourselves into a hole here and playing some pretty sloppy basketball. When Roy returns, I think he can make us a .500 team, from here on out, but he may not even be capable of raising us that level, and we'll fall short of the playoffs in either case.
> 
> 
> Anyhow, last year Portland did the exact same thing, started off playing good basketball with good synergy, then wound up sucking.



Please don't mention last year . . . it causes me involuntary muscle spasms. :biggrin:


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## tlong (Jan 6, 2003)

Brandon Roy being out is the reason we are losing so many games. I think the Blazers have been holding him back in order to finish with a better chance in the lottery. I believe he will eventually have surgery thereby ensuring he misses the max number of games and cementing our high lottery pick.


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## ProudBFan (Apr 29, 2003)

Before the season, I felt this team would struggle over the course of the first half of the season but show signs of improvement over the 2nd half. Yes, I got sucked into the excitement of several comeback wins and allowed myself to feel like they were on track to be competitive sooner than I originally thought. And yes, I'm coming back to earth now, and realizing that my original expectations were probably right on the money.

So to summarize: My short-term expectations are changing from what they were a couple weeks ago, but only to come back in-line with with my original long-term expectations coming into the season.

If that makes any sense.

PBF


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## RedHot&Rolling (Jun 26, 2004)

Is my mindset changing? Not at all.

I predicted 25-30 wins this season. I'll stick to that. The team will win about 1 out of 4 games with more signs of progress - except in the "W" column. 

Roy is the real glue for this team. They miss him on the court.
Outlaw is finally showing consistency and progress in his game - Bravo!
Aldridge is a good rook.

We need to move Magloire for whatever benefits us most. I hope they don't let the contact expire for cap reasons. We need more talent.

I'm still dreaming of a high pick in the '07 Draft.


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## ProudBFan (Apr 29, 2003)

We have a pretty good crop of youngsters. Jack, El Chacho, Roy, Webster, Udoka (I know... ultimately a role-player, but a solid one nonetheless), Outlaw, and Aldridge. But they _are_ youngsters. I'm willing to give 'em time.

PBF


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## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

ProudBFan said:


> We have a pretty good crop of youngsters. Jack, El Chacho, Roy, Webster, Udoka (I know... ultimately a role-player, but a solid one nonetheless), Outlaw, and Aldridge. But they _are_ youngsters. I'm willing to give 'em time.
> 
> PBF




Udoka although solid and a roll player isn't young. He is 29 or 30.


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## Trader Ed (Jun 17, 2002)

I have not had a chance to watch more than maybe 1/4 at a time... and not very often. But from what I have seen, even in the last 2 weeks is exciting.

I thought maybe 27-30 wins was possible just becuase of the amount of injuries we had last year was a detriment. With a season with far less injuries the wins would come easier. It started too until Roy was hurt along with Joel. I look forward to both of them returning to form.

There are some very good pieces of the puzzle here put in place. I would not mind a few trades to put us in a position to benefit from the draft this year. e.g. the Chicago trade ideas netting us another draft pick. I still do not want Dickau or Dixon on the team, not to mention Miles. I am ok with Magloire just dropping off the salary books next year as long as LMA steps up. And I am ok with Raef being on the team as long as he contributes. He is paid way too much though obviously. But will be gone in a few years. His shooting ability should help balance out the offense on the 2nd unit.

Overall I am fine with what they are accomplishing. Bring it on.... I want more wins as well, but can put up with one more year of a tank job to get Oden or Durant on board.

Go Blazers :woot:


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## TallBottom (May 24, 2006)

No-I think earlier they were exceeding my expectations and having Roy out now as well as the other injuries has resulted in some dismal play of late but (and you guys that are close enough to see more of the games could say better than I) as long as the effort is there and the desire to work as a team I think we'll need to let them grow.


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## ZBoFanatic (Feb 10, 2003)

I really don't think Oden will come out next year. The kid had a 1300 or 1400 SAT score and a 3.5+ GPA in high school to go along with his bball skills. I guarantee he wants his degree and probably wants to play a full season of college ball, so I don't think leaving after his first year in college is in his best interest. I would bet on him coming out after his sophomore year so he is at least 1/2 finished with his college curriculum, but wouldn't be surprised if he stayed even longer.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

ZBoFanatic said:


> I really don't think Oden will come out next year. The kid had a 1300 or 1400 SAT score and a 3.5+ GPA in high school to go along with his bball skills. I guarantee he wants his degree and probably wants to play a full season of college ball, so I don't think leaving after his first year in college is in his best interest. I would bet on him coming out after his sophomore year so he is at least 1/2 finished with his college curriculum, but wouldn't be surprised if he stayed even longer.


yeah, because god knows he'll need that degree to fall back on once his playing days prove to be small.


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## ebott (Jan 7, 2003)

Yes and no. 

The No hand - I agree with those that say Brandon Roy being out is why we aren't doing as well as we did earlier in the season. So the hopes that balooned when we were tops in the North West Division are prepared to come right back the second Brandon takes that first step back on the floor.

The Yes hand - I was predicting 30 wins before the season and if we keep on the same pace we're on now that's where we'll end up. And in the long run having a high pick in this years' draft is more important than being close to making the playoffs this year.


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## Iwatas (Aug 3, 2003)

If the Blazers are to end up with a record among the bottom four teams, previous seasons suggest they should have no more than 26 or 27 wins. So far this year is showing a fair amount of parity, meaning that 2-3 games' difference could be the difference between a 4 pick and an 8-10 pick.

I figured the Blazers would be better than last year, but the great start did feel like a flash in the pan. Youth *does* make a difference, and rookie teams are consistently beat by veteran teams, no matter how much heart they show. Roy makes a big difference, but 

I figured the Blazers for 26-28 games, and I think that is still correct. Probably not poor enough for Oden or Durant.

iWatas


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## Blazer Ringbearer (Jan 28, 2003)

ZBoFanatic said:


> I really don't think Oden will come out next year. The kid had a 1300 or 1400 SAT score and a 3.5+ GPA in high school to go along with his bball skills...


Sounds like he's smart enough to do the math...

$5,000,000 > $0

Or does it take a 1600 on the SAT's for that one to sink in? 

Let's face it, people go to college in order to get the skills they need to get a good job and make good money. If you can make millions without doing that, why wouldn't you do it?

You can always afford to go back and pay a small portion of the money you earned to pick up some knowledge.


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## RedHot&Rolling (Jun 26, 2004)

Iwatas said:


> ......I figured the Blazers for 26-28 games, and I think that is still correct. Probably not poor enough for Oden or Durant.- iWatas


Good thing the existence of many ping-pong balls and a lottery!!!


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## ebott (Jan 7, 2003)

RedHot&Rolling said:


> Good thing the existence of many ping-pong balls and a lottery!!!


I think we're cursed in that regard. Back in that ominous 1984 draft we lost the coin flip that would have gotten us Akeem Olajuwon. Last year we got dumped from 4 to 1. The year before we got a little luck to jump up to 3 but it didn't really help us. Like the powers that be were thumbing their noses at us knowing that only the #1 pick would have made a difference that year.


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## Samuel (Jan 1, 2003)

ebott said:


> I think we're cursed in that regard. Back in that ominous 1984 draft we lost the coin flip that would have gotten us Akeem Olajuwon. Last year we got dumped from 4 to 1. The year before we got a little luck to jump up to 3 but it didn't really help us. Like the powers that be were thumbing their noses at us knowing that only the #1 pick would have made a difference that year.


They did get screwed, but they also ended up with the top 2 guys on their draft board. 

That NEVER happens.


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## tlong (Jan 6, 2003)

ZBoFanatic said:


> I really don't think Oden will come out next year. The kid had a 1300 or 1400 SAT score and a 3.5+ GPA in high school to go along with his bball skills. I guarantee he wants his degree and probably wants to play a full season of college ball, so I don't think leaving after his first year in college is in his best interest. I would bet on him coming out after his sophomore year so he is at least 1/2 finished with his college curriculum, but wouldn't be surprised if he stayed even longer.


No way in heck that he stays another year! Too much risk.


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## Utherhimo (Feb 20, 2005)

yup since he "hurt" now, no one really knows if its real or a fake injury to protect his number #1 rank so he can blow up in the tourniment cementing his #1. 

If we get the 5th place record i predict that we will get a top three pick.


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## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

tlong said:


> No way in heck that he stays another year! Too much risk.



I agree. Hopefully he'll look at Noah's situation. He would have been a much higher pick in this last draft. If he has a desire to be picked high he will come out this year. Noah didn't seem to care.


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## ZBoFanatic (Feb 10, 2003)

All I'm saying is that he's a bookworm. He LIKES learning, and that has nothing to do with money. Is that Greek to you? There's more to life for some people than making money, and Greg's academic record and college major choice are indicative of him having interest in school and academic pride.

A lot of NBA players finish off their degrees in the off season as well. I think Oden wants an accounting degree from OSU, a pretty good business school. Do you think that someone just signs up for accounting with no intentions of getting the degree? He easily could have chosen a blow off major. Just don't be too surprised if he doesn't declare this year.


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## Verro (Jul 4, 2005)

ZBoFanatic said:


> A lot of NBA players finish off their degrees in the off season as well. I think Oden wants an accounting degree from OSU, a pretty good business school. Do you think that someone just signs up for accounting with no intentions of getting the degree? He easily could have chosen a blow off major. Just don't be too surprised if he doesn't declare this year.


As an accounting major I'd hope he has enough financial sense not to waste years of his limited NBA window on college. 

If he comes out after his freshman year he'll have around 14-15 years in the league, 4 of those will be taken up by his rookie contract. Not to mention the risk of getting injured during his sophomore year.

Basicly, he'd be wasting nearly 1/10 of his lifetime NBA contract earnings for each additional year he spends in school. If we was a physics or philosophy major, I could see him staying. But an accounting major... no chance.


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## 2k (Dec 30, 2005)

zagsfan20 said:


> Haha...
> 
> All the Noah talk. The guys is so overrated its not even funny. I've been saying this since last year and a thing hasn't changed. He averaged like 15 and 8 in the tournament last year and happened to be a vibrant figure, who took in most the credit on a very good overall Florida team (who is loaded with pro's). He's a tad bit better version of Anderson Varejao (and no, I'm not taking looks into account). He has no offensive game, most of his points are chippies and he likes to run down the court screaming after every play he makes, no matter how irrelevant the play is. The other night I watched him get bullied around by Kansas freshman Darrell Arthur... If he gets bullied around by Darrell Arthur, I squirm when pondering how he does against the big's of the NBA.




The guy reminds me a lot of a slightly rawer Marcus Camby. In this day and age that’s worth a top 4 pick. Ahh it doesn’t matter he is not right for the Blazers anyway.

Back on the Subject. I figured this team would win 28-33 games. Even with a healthy Roy and an improved Randolph this is still barely a 30 win team. Most of the team is improving at a reasonable pace. I cant complain. 33 wins and a top four pick and I’m happy as a runaway slave.


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## tlong (Jan 6, 2003)

ZBoFanatic said:


> All I'm saying is that he's a bookworm. He LIKES learning, and that has nothing to do with money. Is that Greek to you? There's more to life for some people than making money, and Greg's academic record and college major choice are indicative of him having interest in school and academic pride.
> 
> A lot of NBA players finish off their degrees in the off season as well. I think Oden wants an accounting degree from OSU, a pretty good business school. Do you think that someone just signs up for accounting with no intentions of getting the degree? He easily could have chosen a blow off major. Just don't be too surprised if he doesn't declare this year.



You don't seem to remember that Oden was considering challenging this rule prohibiting high-school players from going straight to the NBA. He was ready to join the league this year. He will not return to OSU for his sophomore season.


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## Iwatas (Aug 3, 2003)

2k said:


> 33 wins and a top four pick and I’m happy as a runaway slave.


I'd be quite surprised if 33 wins got a top-4 pick. On average, 27 games (or so) is the cutoff.

iWatas


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## Blazer Freak (Jul 11, 2004)

Right now my draft board goes:

Oden
Durant
J.Wright


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## ProudBFan (Apr 29, 2003)

*'07 Draft Wishes!!!*

This thread needed a new title.

PBF


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## Utherhimo (Feb 20, 2005)

4th would be thadus young


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## ptownblazer1 (Oct 12, 2005)

First, I haven't read what everyone else has said, I just saw this thread and I needed to reply to this...first off. We are young, very young. We are missing Roy. He is a big part of this team, not just to his teammates but to the fans who want to see him play. After having talked to him personally at the airport a few weeks ago on his way to LA, he was very pissed. He does not like sitting and knows that the team is very capable of doing some damage in the west. Great guy to talk to, very down to earth. 

As far as attendance goes, we have had people come back, and we are close to RIP City. I know you say to yourself that the numbers arent great, but look at the Jazz's numbers. They are on a roll and the seats are visibly empty. GO TO NBA.COM, and look at their pic. A lot of green seats, I see. 

We are going through a rough stretch of ball right now, every team goes through it, good and bad. We will get better as the season goes on, I am not sayin playoffs...but I am saying WE ARE NOT IN THE ODEN DRAFT PARTY, nor do I want to be. Let's go out and win some games. I would rather miss the playoffs by a game than be in last place in the NBA at the end of the season, which I know will not happen.
We are fine, we have injuries, and we have not been making open shots. It's a bad stretch. 

LET'S GO BLAZERS!


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## BlayZa (Dec 31, 2002)

based on what happened last year and the additions we added its hard to imagine anyone having super high hopes - now to the blazers credit they started off with a hiss and a roar but as i expected we were just boxing above our weight - reality sinks in , and we are still in rebuilding mode near the bottom of the league.

i think i went for 24-28 wins and thats my bar , anything more than that is a plus imo but for now , it is what it is.... a young team which isnt that good - but they will improve!


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## SheedSoNasty (Dec 31, 2002)

My mindset really has not changed.

This year, I came in with the hope that our rookies would make an impact, Zach would come back healthy, we improve our character, and we play a better brand of basketball than we have in the past. Thus far, all of these expectations have come to fruition.

In fact, the win / loss column is not one of the things that I have been playing close attention to. I liked the way that we started out, but I never expected it to last.


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## Public Defender (May 5, 2003)

ProudBFan said:


> Yes, I got sucked into the excitement of several comeback wins and allowed myself to feel like they were on track to be competitive sooner than I originally thought. And yes, I'm coming back to earth now, and realizing that my original expectations were probably right on the money.


This is pretty much my feeling. I predicted that they'd win between 30 and 35 games. Then, when they started winning I began thinking, "hey - maybe 40, even 45 wins isn't out of the question...?" But now it's a little closer to reality. Though I have to say I'm excited to see if this team can get everyone healthy for a few weeks (other than D-Miles, of course...).


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## tlong (Jan 6, 2003)

ptownblazer1 said:


> First, I haven't read what everyone else has said, I just saw this thread and I needed to reply to this...first off. We are young, very young. We are missing Roy. He is a big part of this team, not just to his teammates but to the fans who want to see him play. After having talked to him personally at the airport a few weeks ago on his way to LA, he was very pissed. He does not like sitting and knows that the team is very capable of doing some damage in the west. Great guy to talk to, very down to earth.
> 
> As far as attendance goes, we have had people come back, and we are close to RIP City. I know you say to yourself that the numbers arent great, but look at the Jazz's numbers. They are on a roll and the seats are visibly empty. GO TO NBA.COM, and look at their pic. A lot of green seats, I see.
> 
> ...



I definitely do not agree with this. This team is clearly a bad team. We have promising young players, but we are still a bad team. We will definitely have a chance at getting the #1 pick.


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## Utherhimo (Feb 20, 2005)

tlong that only thanks to the lotto system!


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## ZBoFanatic (Feb 10, 2003)

tlong said:


> You don't seem to remember that Oden was considering challenging this rule prohibiting high-school players from going straight to the NBA. He was ready to join the league this year. He will not return to OSU for his sophomore season.


I never saw that; however, I have seen analysts speculating on whether or not he'd stay longer at OSU for the very same reasons that I stated. I wouldn't be surprised if he did declare next year, but I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't either. It honestly might come down to whether or not OSU wins it all this year. If they do, then I agree with you that he'll declare.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

ZBoFanatic said:


> I never saw that; however, I have seen analysts speculating on whether or not he'd stay longer at OSU for the very same reasons that I stated. I wouldn't be surprised if he did declare next year, but I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't either. It honestly might come down to whether or not OSU wins it all this year. If they do, then I agree with you that he'll declare.


they want to make it seem like he's staying, so they can make for interesting TV. Oden would be a complete idiot to not come out this year.


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## ZBoFanatic (Feb 10, 2003)

Hap said:


> they want to make it seem like he's staying, so they can make for interesting TV. Oden would be a complete idiot to not come out this year.


Short term financially, he would be, and this is taking for granted that the NBA is a much better job than 99.9% of them out there, but do you not agree that there is more to college than that? It's generally referred to as the best 4 years of your life. Yesstaying an extra year, he'll miss out on a whole lot of money (5Mish), but for someone with his skills, smarts, and marketablility, he'll eventually be making $50M a year with a max contract and advertising contracts anyway. So when it's all said and done, and he has a networth of $300M or so, is he going to care that much about that $5M? Or is he going to care more about the college experience? He certainly has the smarts to be that insightful, so I can see him staying at least another year. We'll see.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

ZBoFanatic said:


> Short term financially, he would be, and this is taking for granted that the NBA is a much better job than 99.9% of them out there, but do you not agree that there is more to college than that? It's generally referred to as the best 4 years of your life. Yesstaying an extra year, he'll miss out on a whole lot of money (5Mish), but for someone with his skills, smarts, and marketablility, he'll eventually be making $50M a year with a max contract and advertising contracts anyway. So when it's all said and done, and he has a networth of $300M or so, is he going to care that much about that $5M? Or is he going to care more about the college experience? He certainly has the smarts to be that insightful, so I can see him staying at least another year. We'll see.


honest to god, if you asked me at 18 if I wanted a GUARANTEED contract where I play a game I love, and have millions...or stay in college where I have to study all the time, but have the "time of my life", I'd take the money. 

why would he care about the college experience? really, is it THAT great of an experience? He's in college only because the NBA changed the rule a year prior.


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## ZBoFanatic (Feb 10, 2003)

Hap said:


> honest to god, if you asked me at 18 if I wanted a GUARANTEED contract where I play a game I love, and have millions...or stay in college where I have to study all the time, but have the "time of my life", I'd take the money.
> 
> why would he care about the college experience? really, is it THAT great of an experience? He's in college only because the NBA changed the rule a year prior.


Everyone has different priorities, look at Joakim Noah. He obviously can't get enough of it. I think he's retarded for not declaring after setting a NCAA Championship game block record, and he's not going to get drafted as high as he would have been, but to him college apparently wasn't that bad.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

ZBoFanatic said:


> Everyone has different priorities, look at Joakim Noah. He obviously can't get enough of it. I think he's retarded for not declaring after setting a NCAA Championship game block record, and he's not going to get drafted as high as he would have been, but to him college apparently wasn't that bad.


Noah's family is already financially set, and he grew up in a much different climate than Oden did..so to compare the two isn't really valid. If I grew up with a famous father, and a famous mother, and a silver spoon in my mouth and then played college ball (and therefore, didn't NEED to go the nba for $$) I'd play another year. But like the rest of society, I didn't have a famous father or a famous mother or grew up with a silver spoon in my mouth.


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## ZBoFanatic (Feb 10, 2003)

Hap said:


> Noah's family is already financially set, and he grew up in a much different climate than Oden did..so to compare the two isn't really valid. If I grew up with a famous father, and a famous mother, and a silver spoon in my mouth and then played college ball (and therefore, didn't NEED to go the nba for $$) I'd play another year. But like the rest of society, I didn't have a famous father or a famous mother or grew up with a silver spoon in my mouth.


How about Dwyane Wade or Brandon Roy or even Zach who was projected to go #2 on NBADraft.net after high school as the #1 high schooler in the nation? Of course, ZBo got the hell out of there because school wasn't for him and declared after a year where he didn't even start. Oden on the other hand is a bookworm and all you hear about is is grades and his SATs and his brains. All I'm saying is that he seems like a collegian and he may very well stay, within reason. Furthermore, Lawrence North is a school in a nice district in Indianapolis, I don't think his family is financially struggling, especially since he has a full ride.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

ZBoFanatic said:


> How about Dwyane Wade or Brandon Roy or even Zach who was projected to go #2 on NBADraft.net after high school as the #1 high schooler in the nation?


for starters, Wade, Roy and Zach were NEVER the potential franchise pick that Oden is. Hell, when Brandon was a senior in high school, he tried to come out and reality squared him in the nards. 

If as a freshman he was all but guaranteed the #1 spot, you bet your sweet bippy he would've come out. 

same with Wade (who wasn't exactly on peoples radar before he came out) and Zach might've been the #1 high schooler in the nation, but no one ever considered him a franchise making/changing player.



> Of course, ZBo got the hell out of there because school wasn't for him and declared after a year where he didn't even start. Oden on the other hand is a bookworm and all you hear about is is grades and his SATs and his brains.


that doesn't mean squadoosh. he might be a "book worm", but that doesn't mean he's going to stay. Again, you ask someone if they want guaranteed money NOW, or another year in college (which is another year where you run the risk of not only being injured but having your game exposed) and no one would be surprised if they took the money.



> All I'm saying is that he seems like a collegian and he may very well stay, within reason. Furthermore, Lawrence North is a school in a nice district in Indianapolis, I don't think his family is financially struggling, especially since he has a full ride.


a full ride to Ohio? gosh, how'd that happen..

I'd be willing to go on a limb and say that Noah's family was financially better off than Odens. I don't see why you're even defending the idea of him leaving early. It doesn't mean he's stupid, it doesn't mean he's not book smart or that his good grades mean nothing. He can alway go back to college, playing in the NBA won't alway be there. College will.


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## Samuel (Jan 1, 2003)

ZBoFanatic said:


> All I'm saying is that he seems like a collegian and he may very well stay


How much do you want to bet? Are you willing to put your money where your mouth is?

$500 says Oden comes out this year.

Hell, make it $1000. 

Players don't stay in school when they're a surefire #1 (and no, Noah wasn't in that category).


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## ZBoFanatic (Feb 10, 2003)

Hap said:


> for starters, Wade, Roy and Zach were NEVER the potential franchise pick that Oden is. Hell, when Brandon was a senior in high school, he tried to come out and reality squared him in the nards.
> 
> If as a freshman he was all but guaranteed the #1 spot, you bet your sweet bippy he would've come out.
> 
> ...


Going to college as a 35 year old and going to college as a 19 year is 2 totally different things man. Zach was projected to go #2 and opted to go to college instead, why? For the experience. It wasn't for him though so he left. Oden's projected to go #1, and he's 10x the student that Zach ever was. He's teamed up with his best friend from high school on the collegiate level. He's surrounded by 50,000 kids his own age. All I'm arguing is that he MIGHT stay not even that he will for sure, and you either have the same answer to every single one--money or poke fun at an example I give. Do you think Oden's value will be degraded from being "a franchise player" if he waits a year? Do you think that Oden values the growing up and educational experience that college offers? Do you think Martell Webster could have benefited from college as he's been quoted as someone still trying to figure himself out? If you were going to give me a percentage on what Oden's chances are for staying in college next year, what would that number be? I would say 60% unless they win a championship. More or less than 2% what do you think?


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## ZBoFanatic (Feb 10, 2003)

Samuel said:


> How much do you want to bet? Are you willing to put your money where your mouth is?
> 
> $500 says Oden comes out this year.
> 
> ...


What about "very well may" do you guys not get? I'm not saying he will stay for sure. Please read.


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## ZBoFanatic (Feb 10, 2003)

Samuel said:


> Players don't stay in school when they're a surefire #1 (and no, Noah wasn't in that category).


Who else is in that category?


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## dudleysghost (Mar 24, 2006)

Oden will come out because staying in college is an injury risk. At any moment in a basketball game or practice his career could end. If that happens before he signs his $20+mil rookie contract, then all he gets is whatever insurance he's been able to pay for himself, if any, which will be much less money. Supposedly Noah's family was already wealthy, so he could afford to stay in school. Does Oden's family allow him that luxury? I doubt it, because most don't.

Some players stay in school even though they could get drafted, but usually it's because they believe their draft stock will go up and they will get a bigger rookie contract if they develop more. It's a calculated gamble. Oden's a guaranteed #1 though, so that doens't apply. By staying in school he risks a career ending injury that leaves him not a wealthy man, and that's what will force him to declare ASAP.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

ZBoFanatic said:


> Going to college as a 35 year old and going to college as a 19 year is 2 totally different things man.


yeah, and being a millionaire at 18 and going to college are two different things too.



> Zach was projected to go #2 and opted to go to college instead, why? For the experience. It wasn't for him though so he left.


somehow I doubt that Zach went for the "experience". He probably thought that he wasn't going to go top 2 (nbadraft does not = where a player will go..afterall, Brandon was projected in the 2nd round before his senior season started).



> Oden's projected to go #1, and he's 10x the student that Zach ever was. He's teamed up with his best friend from high school on the collegiate level. He's surrounded by 50,000 kids his own age. All I'm arguing is that he MIGHT stay not even that he will for sure, and you either have the same answer to every single one--money or poke fun at an example I give. Do you think Oden's value will be degraded from being "a franchise player" if he waits a year?


zach went from being the "2nd pick" (your words) to dropping to the middle of the first round.

anything can happen.



> Do you think that Oden values the growing up and educational experience that college offers? Do you think Martell Webster could have benefited from college as he's been quoted as someone still trying to figure himself out?


two different scenarios. One has nothing to do with the other.



> If you were going to give me a percentage on what Oden's chances are for staying in college next year, what would that number be? I would say 60% unless they win a championship. More or less than 2% what do you think?


I say, unless he's a total idiot, 0%.


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## Samuel (Jan 1, 2003)

ZBoFanatic said:


> Who else is in that category?


Yao Ming, Shaquille O'Neal, Dwight Howard, LeBron James come to mind. These are guys that would go #1 in most drafts, not just their own year.


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## Samuel (Jan 1, 2003)

ZBoFanatic said:


> What about "very well may" do you guys not get? I'm not saying he will stay for sure. Please read.


You're making it out like his departure to the NBA is in question. 

It isn't.

He could be injured the rest of the year and he'd still go #1.


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## ZBoFanatic (Feb 10, 2003)

Samuel said:


> You're making it out like his departure to the NBA is in question.
> 
> It isn't.
> 
> He could be injured the rest of the year and he'd still go #1.


This is EXACTLY my point. The basis of it. He will go #1 whenever he declares no matter what year. He is the school type. He has nothing to worry about. If he breaks a leg and is out for his career, that is just the worst luck in the world. But if you are the type to base your decision on the possibility of a career ending injury, then you are a sissy personality.

If he LIKES college life, and he knows what is coming to him soon enough anyway, don't you think there's a chance that he may stay a little longer than most others, especially if OSU doesn't win a championship this year? To some, not all valuables can be measured in dollars and cents. Is it fair to assume that someone with his proven cognitive ability, accounting major, and his guaranteed 9+ figure networth within 5 years of declaring for the draft, would consider staying in college a little past his first year if it was something important to him? He was national player of the year as a JUNIOR in high school, and he still took all AP classes in highschool and still declared a very tough major. He rubs off on me as someone who prides himself in being an A+ person, not just a basketball player, that just may value his college experience more than you guys understand.


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## ZBoFanatic (Feb 10, 2003)

Samuel said:


> You're making it out like his departure to the NBA is in question.
> 
> It isn't.
> 
> He could be injured the rest of the year and he'd still go #1.


This is EXACTLY my point. The basis of it. He will go #1 whenever he declares no matter what year. He is the school type. He has nothing to worry about. If he breaks a leg and is out for his career, that is just the worst luck in the world. But if you are the type to base your decision on the possibility of a career ending injury, then you are a sissy personality.

If he LIKES college life, and he knows what is coming to him soon enough anyway, don't you think there's a chance that he may stay a little longer than most others, especially if OSU doesn't win a championship this year? To some, not all valuables can be measured in dollars and cents. Is it fair to assume that someone with his proven cognitive ability, accounting major, and his guaranteed 9+ figure networth within 5 years of declaring for the draft, would consider staying in college a little past his first year if it was something important to him? He was national player of the year as a JUNIOR in high school, and he still took all AP classes in highschool and still declared a very tough major. He rubs off on me as someone who prides himself in being an A+ person, not just a basketball player, that just may value his college experience more than you guys understand.


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## ZBoFanatic (Feb 10, 2003)

Hap said:


> yeah, and being a millionaire at 18 and going to college are two different things too.


Being a millionaire at 18 and being a millionaire at 20 are virtually the same though. Furthermore, being a millionaire at 18 and a millionaire at 20 with an accounting mind is not. That may seem far fetched, but not for accounting majors!




Hap said:


> somehow I doubt that Zach went for the "experience". He probably thought that he wasn't going to go top 2 (nbadraft does not = where a player will go..afterall, Brandon was projected in the 2nd round before his senior season started)..


That was from NBADraft.net not me. And he did go for the experience. Him and one of his best buddies, Will Whitaker, who got a full ride from MSU for football, decided to go together.

However, he did probably think that he would still go top 2 after a year or 2. Obviously that didn't matter though, the Blazers still signed him to a max contract.





Hap said:


> zach went from being the "2nd pick" (your words) to dropping to the middle of the first round.
> 
> anything can happen.


Anything can happen, but it's very very unlikely that Greg's value drops. He had 18 blocks in the state championship game as a junior in high school! That's unheard of. Barring very bad luck, he'll go #1 any year he wants.




Hap said:


> two different scenarios. One has nothing to do with the other.


They don't, you're right. But my point was that Martel is obviously still a child mentally. He seems very lost in every sense of the word. So many high schoolers are naive about the real world until they go to college. Martel definitely should have gone, for many of the same reasons that any young person can benefit from college. Greg just may fit that mold.





Hap said:


> I say, unless he's a total idiot, 0%.


And I say, you're naive and completely undervaluing what a college experience is for some people. By no means am I a David Stern fan, but requiring at least a year of college is the best thing that he could have done for the class of 2007.


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## ZBoFanatic (Feb 10, 2003)

Samuel said:


> Yao Ming, Shaquille O'Neal, Dwight Howard, LeBron James come to mind. These are guys that would go #1 in most drafts, not just their own year.


Uh Oh......... Yao Ming DID wait an extra year......... Shaq needed LSU to get to #1 unanimous........ I

Dwight Howard wasn't unanimous, him and Okafur kept taking the lead from one another if I remember correctly.

I'll give you LeBron. That's a very small sample size to say that all unanimous #1 players declare immediately.


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## 2k (Dec 30, 2005)

To make it short and simple do we tank a few games and bribe David Stern to get Durant or Oden or do we play it legit?


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## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

2k said:


> To make it short and simple do we tank a few games and bribe David Stern to get Durant or Oden or do we play it legit?





The great thing is, we don't have to "tank" games to lose them. We aren't very good yet.


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

Samuel said:


> Players don't stay in school when they're a surefire #1 (and no, Noah wasn't in that category).


I'm with you on thinking that most players would come out if they are a _"surefire #1"_ as it's a good thing to have millions of dollars in the bank (actually I'm only guessing on this). I can think of one glaring exception to this truism... arguably the best player in the game Timmy D. The Warriors were practically begging him to come out after his soph year at Wake, and the Sixers didn't hide their intentions following his Junior year. No one else comes to mind.

I'd be very surprised if Greg isn't in the league next year. 

STOMP


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## dudleysghost (Mar 24, 2006)

ZBoFanatic said:


> If he breaks a leg and is out for his career, that is just the worst luck in the world. But if you are the type to base your decision on the possibility of a career ending injury, then you are a sissy personality.


It happens. People get injured. It's not being a sissy to realize that he is one major injury away from going from a $20+ million guaranteed contract to $0, it's being responsible. Not only is he risking his own lifetime of wealth, but also probably that of his parents, his brothers and sisters, his future children and their children. I really don't think you appreciate what is being risked if Oden stays in college another year. I don't know how much insurance he can afford right now, if any, but it must pale in comparison to the size of a rookie contract for a #1 pick. Nobody expects to get in a car accident (Jay Williams), or a rare disease (Dajuan Wagner), or a major knee injury (many players), but it happens, and ignoring the possibility is unwise.


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## barfo (Jan 2, 2003)

ZBoFanatic said:


> This is EXACTLY my point. The basis of it. He will go #1 whenever he declares no matter what year. He is the school type. He has nothing to worry about. If he breaks a leg and is out for his career, that is just the worst luck in the world. But if you are the type to base your decision on the possibility of a career ending injury, then you are a sissy personality.


Or, dare I say, an accountant.



> If he LIKES college life, and he knows what is coming to him soon enough anyway, don't you think there's a chance that he may stay a little longer than most others, especially if OSU doesn't win a championship this year? To some, not all valuables can be measured in dollars and cents. Is it fair to assume that someone with his proven cognitive ability, accounting major, and his guaranteed 9+ figure networth within 5 years of declaring for the draft, would consider staying in college a little past his first year if it was something important to him?


To learn accounting??? The most boring major possible? (sorry accountants). 

Anyway, what's so great about college? The s-e-x and d-r-u-g-s, sure, but NBA players don't lack for those things. Studying accounting? Well, that certainly does sound like a more interesting life than being an NBA star. 



> He was national player of the year as a JUNIOR in high school, and he still took all AP classes in highschool and still declared a very tough major. He rubs off on me as someone who prides himself in being an A+ person, not just a basketball player, that just may value his college experience more than you guys understand.


Then he's a moron, depsite the decent SAT scores. That's like turning down a puppy because you are busy with your pet turtle.

barfo


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Very unlikely that Oden is going to stay. But, it wouldn't be a huge shocker if for some odd reason he did. I remember when he was a freshman in high school he told reporters that he wanted to go to college for 4 years and get his degree.

Kid's say the darndest things.


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## Iwatas (Aug 3, 2003)

This is all fiddlesticks. If Oden were so smart, and so interested in a superb education, then he would not be attending Ohio State University. 

Oden, if school was such a priority, would have gone to Stanford or the Ivies -- or even a second tier like Duke. *That* might be an education that would be worth sticking around for. And plenty of players make it to the NBA from decent schools, esp. Stanford and Duke.

But OSU? Give me a break. That is like risking your whole career to really give PSU your all. Anybody as supposedly smart as Oden cannot be that dumb.

iWatas (elitist snob)

:kissmy:


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## Oil Can (May 25, 2006)

I have not read this thread, but anybody that thinks ODen is doing anything but playing in the NBA in 07/08 is insane in the membrane. Spare me.


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