# Canzano on Oden



## Reep (Jun 4, 2003)

Link

Hopefully John is right and the Blazers are underselling his impact.



> You can't get anyone inside the Trail Blazers organization to say this publicly, but they love his workouts. The whisper is that management believes he will be even better than they thought he'd be when they drafted him.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

I've actually heard the same, but that they're totally underselling him. Partly not to look really dumb if he DOES get hurt/fails, but because it's kind of a genie in a bottle thing. I've heard that they expect him to be a HUGE player in the game.

And not in the sense of Gilbert Arenas, or Dwight Howard big..we're talking all time big.

In a way, it's funny to hear fans say how he's gonna have "foul" issues, and is semi-raw, when it absolutely contradicts things Ive heard. 

Like, there's a reason he was talked about *years* before his draft year. And there's reasons why media people were saying how this gives us a HUGE leg up on the competition. 

He's that damn good.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

We will see. Im going to sit on the fence on this one. I think he'll be good, but alltime good? I highly doubt that.


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## RoyToy (May 25, 2007)

He has had foul issues though. I'd say it's a legitimate concern.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

RoyToy said:


> He has had foul issues though. I'd say it's a legitimate concern.


No he hasn't. Summer league fouls are not a valid argument. He didn't have foul issues in college, that was blown out of proportion.


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## RoyToy (May 25, 2007)

He too did have foul issues in college. Not serious serious, but he did have issues. 

I don't disagree with anyone that has concerns about his personal fouls.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

Dan said:


> No he hasn't. Summer league fouls are not a valid argument. He didn't have foul issues in college, that was blown out of proportion.


They weren't blown out of proportion. In most of his games, he picked up fouls early and had to sit out nearly half of the first half and then had to be managed carefully in the second half to keep him on the court.

I think he's going to have foul problems in his rookie season, but I also think he's going to figure it out as the season wears on and learn how to defend at the NBA level without getting whistled. He strikes me as as a very smart guy.


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## TLo (Dec 27, 2006)

I've been following Oden since his sophomore year in high school. The only other player that has caused me to do that is LeBron James. The only concern I have about GO is his health. If he stays healthy, he will be one of the best that's ever played the game.


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## Reep (Jun 4, 2003)

Last Summer

July 6, 2007: 21 minutes, 10 fouls (6 pts, 2 reb)
July 8, 2007: 28 minutes, 9 fouls (13 pts, 5 reb)

I know it is summer league, but it is fair to say he might suffer from foul issues (even though you are right that it wasn't a big problem in college). Hopefully he picked up a lot by watching this year.

This also points to my concern about him rebounding. Those numbers are awful for summer league rebounding.


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## OdenRoyLMA2 (May 23, 2008)

Summer League is an absolute joke. Period. They called like 80 fouls yesterday in that Blazers-Kings game. You can't base it off of SL.

And he only averaged like 2.7 FPG in college. It's really being blown out of proportion.


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## elcap15 (Aug 8, 2006)

Most rookie centers have foul problems. The speed of the game is an issue as well as how NBA players attack the rim. Big men have to learn how to take away angles and block shots going AWAY from the little guys. Oden will do fine in those regards with a little time and practice.

I would more concerned with his health. Knees are the bane of NBA big men and Oden has already had a micro surgery without ever playing a game. That might not mean anything, but it might be very telling. Especially since he was injured in his only year of college ball.


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## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

Oden will have foul trouble early on, but I have a feeling that unless the NBA cans Stern and makes Jerry Buss Commishoner Oden will have a little leway


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

OdenRoyLMA2 said:


> Summer League is an absolute joke. Period. They called like 80 fouls yesterday in that Blazers-Kings game. You can't base it off of SL.
> 
> And he only averaged like 2.7 FPG in college. It's really being blown out of proportion.


If you want to be exact, it was 85.


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## PapaG (Oct 4, 2004)

Reep said:


> Last Summer
> 
> July 6, 2007: 21 minutes, 10 fouls (6 pts, 2 reb)
> July 8, 2007: 28 minutes, 9 fouls (13 pts, 5 reb)
> ...


He was sick during summer league. So sick he quit playing and had his tonsils removed.


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## Boob-No-More (Apr 24, 2006)

Reep said:


> Last Summer
> 
> July 6, 2007: 21 minutes, 10 fouls (6 pts, 2 reb)
> July 8, 2007: 28 minutes, 9 fouls (13 pts, 5 reb)
> ...


I've consistently seen better score keepers at 3rd grade CYO games than what they have at summer league. Those guys constantly miss rebounds, assists and blocks. And when they do actually see them, they often give them to the wrong player.

So, did Oden REALLY have 2 rebounds, maybe, but the actual number could be anywhere between 0 and 20.

BNM


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## EGame (Mar 28, 2008)

Aldridge had the same foul issues in his rookie season, didn't he? (I thought he did anyway). And if I am correct then this will help my point, that yeah, Oden may have foul issues early on, but as he adjusts it really should not be that much of a problem. Aldridge was able to adjust so I think Oden can too.


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## alext42083 (Nov 7, 2003)

I think we're underselling too a little bit what kind of impact Oden can make, if he can stay healthy.
This isn't a Duckworth impact, or Sabas in his latter years impact, which were both pretty good in their own right. 

Oden is a potential Bill Russell, David Robinson, Shaq type impact player. He's an athletic 7-foot, 280-pound center at only 20 years old. The next 15 years is going to be great.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

elcap15 said:


> I would more concerned with his health. Knees are the bane of NBA big men and Oden has already had a micro surgery without ever playing a game. That might not mean anything, but it might be very telling. Especially since he was injured in his only year of college ball.


Microfracture surgery is bad news when it's to fix a degenerative problem. That wasn't the case for Oden; for him, it was to fix a non-degenerative cartilage injury.

In addition, his injury in college was a hand injury. It has nothing to do with his knees and shouldn't be any sort of issue in the future.


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## elcap15 (Aug 8, 2006)

alext42083 said:


> I think we're underselling too a little bit what kind of impact Oden can make, *if he can stay healthy*.
> This isn't a Duckworth impact, or Sabas in his latter years impact, which were both pretty good in their own right.
> 
> Oden is a *potential* Bill Russell, David Robinson, Shaq type impact player. He's an athletic 7-foot, 280-pound center at only 20 years old. The next 15 years is going to be great.


That is why. He hasnt done anything yet but foul out of summer league games and miss the season with a microfracture surgery.

I think Oden is going to be good right away and great eventually but there are a lot of IF's involved.


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## elcap15 (Aug 8, 2006)

Minstrel said:


> Microfracture surgery is bad news when it's to fix a degenerative problem. That wasn't the case for Oden; for him, it was to fix a non-degenerative cartilage injury.
> 
> In addition, his injury in college was a hand injury. It has nothing to do with his knees and shouldn't be any sort of issue in the future.


This is all true. And if Amare is an example of 20 yr old getting microfracture all you Blazer fans will be sittin pretty.


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## mook (Dec 31, 2002)

alext42083 said:


> I think we're underselling too a little bit what kind of impact Oden can make, if he can stay healthy.
> This isn't a Duckworth impact, or Sabas in his latter years impact, which were both pretty good in their own right.
> 
> Oden is a potential Bill Russell, David Robinson, Shaq type impact player. He's an athletic 7-foot, 280-pound center at only 20 years old. The next 15 years is going to be great.


Truth is that with the addition of Bayless and Fernandez, the great season for Roy and Aldridge, Outlaw's busy summer, and the surprising show of Koponen, we just haven't been paying as much attention to Oden because he's old (but very good) news. I think he's just been forgotten about amid all the other changes. 

Seriously, there have been years where Koponen might've been the big off-season story for Portland.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

mook said:


> Seriously, there have been years where Koponen might've been the big off-season story for Portland.


Remember the Summer of Nedzad Sinanovic?

Good times.


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

Frankly I want my bigs getting fouls, typically it's an indication that they are sending the message that if you bring it in the lane, plan on some turbulence.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

I'm going to make a prediction. Oden will foul out of his first 30 games, and do so without playing more than 12 minutes a game.


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## mgb (Jun 26, 2004)

I'm sure Oden will get in foul trouble early in games, but Nate prepared last year for that by playing Joel early and not at all at the end of games. Nothing will change except Oden will be playing late this year.


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## Boob-No-More (Apr 24, 2006)

Minstrel said:


> Remember the Summer of Nedzad Sinanovic?
> 
> Good times.


Ah yes, the Ha - Nedzad throw down (I will KEEL you!). WWE should sign those guys up for a re-match. They could call it Stiff-Mania - the battle of the 7'3" wasted second-round draft picks.

BNM


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## It's_GO_Time (Oct 13, 2005)

Side thought:

Is it fair to disregard Oden's foul problems in SL because they call so many fouls in SL . . . and still give Bayless so much credit for his ability to score eventhough he gets the bulk of his points in SL by drawing fouls and shooting free throws?


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## goggles (Jul 8, 2008)

Dan said:


> I'm going to make a prediction. Oden will foul out of his first 30 games, and do so without playing more than 12 minutes a game.


is this post serious?

looks like the record for fouling out in consecutive games is six, set by 
Don Boven in the 1951-52 season.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

goggles said:


> *is this post serious?*
> 
> looks like the record for fouling out in consecutive games is six, set by
> Don Boven in the 1951-52 season.


What do you think?


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## goggles (Jul 8, 2008)

Dan said:


> What do you think?


well you never know


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## wizmentor (Nov 10, 2005)

PapaG said:


> He was sick during summer league. So sick he quit playing and had his tonsils removed.


Not to mention he was out of shape. Remember his workout with the Blazers?

It's not uncommon for young bigs to get into foul trouble. However, to predict that Oden will have serious foul trouble based on last year's summer league when he was out of shape and sick to boot is just silly.


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## mook (Dec 31, 2002)

Minstrel said:


> Remember the Summer of Nedzad Sinanovic?
> 
> Good times.












Ah, yes. That was one of our Shwetty Weiner seasons.


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## Baracuda (Jan 10, 2007)

Boob-No-More said:


> Ah yes, the Ha - Nedzad throw down (I will KEEL you!). WWE should sign those guys up for a re-match. They could call it Stiff-Mania - the battle of the 7'3" wasted second-round draft picks.
> 
> BNM


Did you say Nedzad throwdown? 
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/3uFdMTE8yZU&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/3uFdMTE8yZU&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>


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## BLAZER PROPHET (Jan 3, 2003)

Well, I may be coming in too late but I have a hard time seeing Oden as an all time great. Due to his height & weight I'm not so certain he will have a full 82 game per year 15 year career. I think he will have several seasons where he misses numerous games due to injuries. Now, that may be easy to predict, but it's no mere happenstance he's had this knee surgery before age 21 and I think there will be repercusions for years to come in various ways.

With respect to his fouls, there's clearly a learning curve and he will have his. Eventually he will foul less and get more leeway from the refs as they get used to him. I have no doubt he will get the star treatment at about his 3rd to 4th season.


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## Rip City Road Blocker (Jul 23, 2004)

Boob-No-More said:


> Ah yes, the Ha - Nedzad throw down (I will KEEL you!). WWE should sign those guys up for a re-match. They could call it Stiff-Mania - the battle of the 7'3" wasted second-round draft picks.
> 
> BNM


Did you say Ha throw down? <p><p>

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/dQ93HmEwcWg&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/dQ93HmEwcWg&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object><p><p>

Wait...


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## c_note (Jan 30, 2007)

Those summer league fouls...if all those haters had actually WATCHED Oden play in SL, they would've realized about half of all those calls were absolutely terrible and should not have been called. I'm not concerned at all about his potential "foul trouble".


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## RoyToy (May 25, 2007)

Who's talking about SL? It goes all the way back to college.

If ya'll want to keep beating that homer drum, and act like he hasn't had fouling issues, then go ahead, that is your right.

No one is saying he won't be good, or won't be a special player. Just saying he'll have to keep his fouls under control, that's all. Calm down.


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## TLo (Dec 27, 2006)

FYI - Oden never fouled out of a game at Ohio State.


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## Nate4Prez (Jun 3, 2007)

TLo said:


> FYI - Oden never fouled out of a game at Ohio State.


'Nough Said


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## RoyToy (May 25, 2007)

TLo said:


> FYI - Oden never fouled out of a game at Ohio State.


You mean he didn't foul out against Xavier in the tournament, and Ohio State had to play in OT without him? Yeah, bet you didn't know about that.

In the next game in the tournament, against Tennessee, he only played 18min because of foul trouble. Nice. Or when he only played 20min against Georgetown because of foul trouble. I'm sure you knew that, though.

He got to 4 fouls 9 times in college(not counting the game he fouled out). He's prone to fouling a little too much. It's not a huge problem, but it's a legitimate concern. He'll be fine eventually, just might be tough at first.


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## Talkhard (May 13, 2003)

BLAZER PROPHET said:


> Well, I may be coming in too late but I have a hard time seeing Oden as an all time great. Due to his height & weight I'm not so certain he will have a full 82 game per year 15 year career. I think he will have several seasons where he misses numerous games due to injuries. Now, that may be easy to predict, but it's no mere happenstance he's had this knee surgery before age 21 and *I think there will be repercusions for years to come in various ways.*


That's a huge leap on your part. It's also just as possible that Oden will never again need a knee surgery, and will have a long and productive career. John Stockton had the same kind of surgery that Oden did and went on to play at the highest level for many years, with no repercussions at all.


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## Reep (Jun 4, 2003)

c_note said:


> Those summer league fouls...if all those haters had actually WATCHED Oden play in SL, they would've realized about half of all those calls were absolutely terrible and should not have been called. I'm not concerned at all about his potential "foul trouble".


So if I actually attended the summer league games, and still observed the fouls then I'm a hater? I flew out to Vegas, paid for a hotel and the games because I'm a hater?

There were some terrible calls, but it would be burrying your head in the sand to think that those same terrible calls won't follow Oden around his first year in the league.


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## sa1177 (Feb 18, 2005)

Having seen this guy workout a short while back I have to say I think Crapzano is right in this case. Oden is going to surprise some people, especially on the offensive end. Yes it may take him some time to adjust to the speed of the NBA, and he may struggle with fouls initially but by the end of the season he is going to be a absolute beast in the paint on both ends of the floor. 

The workout I watched was very very impressive. He seems to have mastered some nice post moves going both ways and developed a nice mid-range jumper. His range may well extend out to 12ft or so which would be deadly. He also threw down two thunderous dunks in which his knee didn't seem to be a concern at all.


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## Reep (Jun 4, 2003)

sa1177 said:


> Having seen this guy workout a short while back I have to say I think Crapzano is right in this case. Oden is going to surprise some people, especially on the offensive end. Yes it may take him some time to adjust to the speed of the NBA, and he may struggle with fouls initially but by the end of the season he is going to be a absolute beast in the paint on both ends of the floor.
> 
> The workout I watched was very very impressive. He seems to have mastered some nice post moves going both ways and developed a nice mid-range jumper. His range may well extend out to 12ft or so which would be deadly. He also threw down two thunderous dunks in which his knee didn't seem to be a concern at all.


Wow, that must have been fun to see. Being able to hit the 10-12 foot shot will really open things up for him to go around guys for the dunk. Oden doesn't covers a lot of ground quickly.

I hope they have been working with him this year on what he can and can't get away with on defense. If he gets long minutes in games, he will have to be a factor. If he has good footwork and knows how to move around on both ends of the court, he will have a great year.


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## Oldmangrouch (Feb 11, 2003)

Reep said:


> Link
> 
> Hopefully John is right and the Blazers are underselling his impact.


Not to be paranoid, but why is Canzano *overselling* his impact? Sounds like he is setting the bar for Oden (and the team) as high as possible - that way, there is a better chance that he gets to whine about how "disappointing" the team is.


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## Reep (Jun 4, 2003)

Oldmangrouch said:


> Not to be paranoid, but why is Canzano *overselling* his impact? Sounds like he is setting the bar for Oden (and the team) as high as possible - that way, there is a better chance that he gets to whine about how "disappointing" the team is.


More likely that he is just trying to be the one to be able to say "see, I told you he was going to be better than advertized."


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## World B. Free (Mar 28, 2008)

RoyToy said:


> He too did have foul issues in college. Not serious serious, but he did have issues.
> 
> I don't disagree with anyone that has concerns about his personal fouls.


No he didn't dude. He never fouled out once in college. Look it up.

Your just an Oden hater.


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## MrJayremmie (Dec 29, 2007)

So i guess Oden fouled out in the tournament. So he fouled out once in like 35+ games. He averaged under 3 fouls a game in college.

And summer league is rediculous. Watching it this year, you can tell they call it if you so much as breathe on the other player.

he will have some foul problems like every big does, but he will definitely be fine. I don't think he is foul prone at all. And when he does get in foul trouble we have Joel off the bench, which is a very nice luxery to have.


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## RoyToy (May 25, 2007)

World B. Free said:


> No he didn't dude. He never fouled out once in college. Look it up.
> 
> Your just an Oden hater.


Obviously you're the one that needs to look it up. And no, I'm not an Oden hater. Good one though.


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## RoyToy (May 25, 2007)

MrJayremmie said:


> So i guess Oden fouled out in the tournament. So he fouled out once in like 35+ games. He averaged under 3 fouls a game in college.
> 
> And summer league is rediculous. Watching it this year, you can tell they call it if you so much as breathe on the other player.
> 
> he will have some foul problems like every big does, but he will definitely be fine. I don't think he is foul prone at all. And when he does get in foul trouble we have Joel off the bench, which is a very nice luxery to have.


Just because you don't foul out doesn't mean you don't have foul issues. Having to sit on the bench because you have 2-3 fouls in the first half, or 4 fouls with 10min to go in the 2nd half counts as foul issues too.

He'll be fine, but it is a legitimate concern, something I'm sure he'll overcome.


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## Reep (Jun 4, 2003)

World B. Free said:


> No he didn't dude. He never fouled out once in college. Look it up.
> 
> Your just an Oden hater.


I'm not an Oden hater, I'm an ignorance hater:

OSU v. Xavier Box Score

You know they only get five in college, right?

Link



> Ohio State's All-America center was headed to the bench after picking up his second foul less than three minutes into the first half Saturday, another NCAA Tournament game to go on without him.





> Already in this tournament, the Buckeyes had beaten Xavier in overtime after *Oden had fouled out*; and come back from 17 down at the half against Tennessee when Oden played just 18 minutes.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greg_Oden



> Oden fouled out for the first time in his college career against Xavier in the second round of the NCAA Tournament, and *was bothered by foul trouble throughout the tournament.*


2007 NCAA playoffs

Xavier: fouled out
Tenn: 4 PF, 18 min
Mem: 4 PF, 24 min
Gtown: 4 PF, 20 min
Florida: 4 PF, 38 min

In those five games, Conley played 34-40 minutes. How anyone can look at those minutes and foul numbers and conclude that Oden didn't struggle with foul issues is beyond my understanding. In only one of those five games did Oden play the full game, and then he was sitting on four fouls.


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## MrJayremmie (Dec 29, 2007)

Oden fouled out once and averaged under 3 fouls a game in college. 

EVERY PLAYER has games in foul trouble.

Oden had to play ultra aggresive and clean up the paint in the tourny to get Ohio State as far as he did.


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## Reep (Jun 4, 2003)

The question you have to ask yourself is: 

If GO averaged 25 minutes/game due to foul issues and fould out every fifth game, would you consider him to have foul issues? 

That is what happened in the tournament and is probably the best measure we have of the future. Hopefully people are telling him how to avoid foul troubles.


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## Jayps15 (Jul 21, 2007)

He had foul trouble, but it's not like he was completely uncontrollable out there. He averaged 2.7 fouls in 28.9min, or less than a foul for every 10mins played. If he keeps up that exact same frequency and plays what I expect to be about 30-32mins per night he'll still only average 3.0 fouls per game. That would barely put him in the top 40 for fouls per game, and he would barely crack the top 200 for fouls per 48 mins.


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## PapaG (Oct 4, 2004)

Reep said:


> The question you have to ask yourself is:
> 
> If GO averaged 25 minutes/game due to foul issues and fould out every fifth game, would you consider him to have foul issues?
> 
> That is what happened in the tournament and *is probably the best measure we have of the future*. Hopefully people are telling him how to avoid foul troubles.


Huh? A six game sample is more realistic than a 35 game sample?

Explain please. The NCAA tournament has long been a joke for big men and foul trouble. It's why solid guard play has become necessary for a good tournament run.

Oden plays two games in a summer league with tonsils the size of golf balls, and I see post after post after post thinking the guy won't be able to stay on the court.

I honestly can't wait for Oden to simply dominate people over the next few years. People have forgotten what an absolute athletic freak he is.


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## PapaG (Oct 4, 2004)

Jayps15 said:


> He had foul trouble, but it's not like he was completely uncontrollable out there. He averaged 2.7 fouls in 28.9min, or less than a foul for every 10mins played. If he keeps up that exact same frequency and plays what I expect to be about 30-32mins per night he'll still only average 3.0 fouls per game. That would barely put him in the top 40 for fouls per game, and he would barely crack the top 200 for fouls per 48 mins.


But what about the summer league!!!!:cabbagepatch:


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## MrJayremmie (Dec 29, 2007)

> The question you have to ask yourself is:
> 
> If GO averaged 25 minutes/game due to foul issues and fould out every fifth game, would you consider him to have foul issues?
> 
> That is what happened in the tournament and is probably the best measure we have of the future. Hopefully people are telling him how to avoid foul troubles.


I'd rather go by the whole season and tournament. 5-6 games isn't enough to judge. He didn't foul out the whole regular season, and considering he is a shot blocking center, that is saying something.

I'm not necessarily saying that he won't be in foul trouble, because i can't predict that, but i'm definitely thinking this is being blown out of proportion.


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## Reep (Jun 4, 2003)

PapaG said:


> Huh? A six game sample is more realistic than a 35 game sample?
> 
> Explain please. The NCAA tournament has long been a joke for big men and foul trouble. It's why solid guard play has become necessary for a good tournament run.
> 
> ...



I hope Oden does well also, but I'm not going to expect that fouls won't be an issue.

The reason I think the tournament games are more important is two-fold. First, they were the most important games of his career so he should have been givin his all. Second, they were the last real games we have to look at, so they are the last best indicator of his playing ability. 

You can look at the full season if you like, but you have to recognize trends at the end and give them there due credit. If a player shot 25% from three for the regular season, but then seemed to fix his shot and shot 45% for five games in the tournament, would you still worry about his three point shooting? Probably not. 

Regarding his tonsils, do large tonsils force you to foul more? Healthy tonsils would have probably provided a better overall performance, but I have a hard time believing that healthy tonsils would have kept him at 4 fouls.


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## PapaG (Oct 4, 2004)

Reep said:


> Regarding his tonsils, do large tonsils force you to foul more? Healthy tonsils would have probably provided a better overall performance, but I have a hard time believing that healthy tonsils would have kept him at 4 fouls.


You can believe all you want, but the guy could barely breathe while trying to play in those games.

I'm not sure how closely you follow the Blazers, but it was common knowledge that Oden had a severe sinus infection combined with tonsilitis during the summer league.

Not being able to breath probably would add to some reaching, but I'm just going by what was actually available for public consumption.


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## Reep (Jun 4, 2003)

We are basically debating what Oden is going to be doing in November when he comes into the league. I don't know about you, but I'm not a prophet. That stats are what they are. In college he played 28 minutes a game that was somewhat limited by some early foul issues. He hit the playoffs and was time limited quite a bit by fouls. In summer league, he was ill, but also limited by foul issues.  

I think he won't get much love from the refs in his first few months, but really there is now way to tell. 

I am not saying that he is going to be a disappointment because he will always be in fould trouble. What I am saying is that his most recent games point to some fouling issues so don't be surprised if we can't count on him for 34 minutes a game.


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## PapaG (Oct 4, 2004)

Reep said:


> We are basically debating what Oden is going to be doing in November when he comes into the league. I don't know about you, but I'm not a prophet. That stats are what they are. In college he played 28 minutes a game that was somewhat limited by some early foul issues. He hit the playoffs and was time limited quite a bit by fouls. In summer league, he was ill, but also limited by foul issues.
> 
> I think he won't get much love from the refs in his first few months, but really there is now way to tell.
> 
> I am not saying that he is going to be a disappointment because he will always be in fould trouble. What I am saying is that his most recent games point to some fouling issues so don't be surprised if we can't count on him for *34 minutes a game*.


I hope he doesn't average over 28 mpg this year. One year after microfracture with a knee that he says is still not 100%?

28 mpg is a good goal. Joel can pick up 16 mpg and LMA/Frye can hold the fort for the few random minutes that the team goes small.


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## MrJayremmie (Dec 29, 2007)

Well, also, the facts are that he averaged under 3fpg and only fouled out once in the whole year including the tournament. 

He also had some limited minutes at the start of the year because he was coming off an injury, so 28mpg out of 40 isn't that bad, imo. I'm sure they also blew some people out so he sat out longer some times. He really wasn't in foul trouble a lot (hardly ever) before the tourny where he had to play more minutes, and had to play more aggresive and defend the paint.


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## Reep (Jun 4, 2003)

PapaG said:


> I hope he doesn't average over 28 mpg this year. One year after microfracture with a knee that he says is still not 100%?
> 
> 28 mpg is a good goal. Joel can pick up 16 mpg and LMA/Frye can hold the fort for the few random minutes that the team goes small.


Yeah, 34-28 isn't that big a difference. I'm a little concerned about <20 min/game, with those 20 minutes being inefficient because Oden doesn't know what he can and can't get away with without getting into foul trouble.

You know that every guy in the league who has a vertical of over 30" is going to try and be the first to posterize him.


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## MrJayremmie (Dec 29, 2007)

Oden will DEFINITELY have an adjustment period. And will probably have some foul problems also. He needs to adjust to the speed of the game, how the refs call it, the physicality of the game, and so on.... But i really don't believe he will be a foul prone big guy after the first half of the season adn through the rest of his career. He will get the hang of it and start showing some really nice things.


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## PapaG (Oct 4, 2004)

Reep said:


> Yeah, 34-28 isn't that big a difference. I'm a little concerned about <20 min/game, with those 20 minutes being inefficient because Oden doesn't know what he can and can't get away with without getting into foul trouble.
> 
> *You know that every guy in the league who has a vertical of over 30" is going to try and be the first to posterize him*.



Really? I don't see it. The guy is 285 lbs of muscle with an all-business demeanor on the court. I don't think the average player is lining up to get blocked and then knocked on his *** by Oden.


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## Reep (Jun 4, 2003)

MrJayremmie said:


> But i really don't believe he will be a foul prone big guy after the first half of the season adn through the rest of his career. He will get the hang of it and start showing some really nice things.


The refs will also start to like him and cut him a little slack. And, like it or not, he will get some star treatment by the league.


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## MrJayremmie (Dec 29, 2007)

I definitely like star treatment if its already happening around the league, there is no reason Roy and Oden shouldn't also get it.

I'd prefer to have no star treatment anywhere, but whatever.


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## Oldmangrouch (Feb 11, 2003)

PapaG said:


> Really? I don't see it. The guy is 285 lbs of muscle with an all-business demeanor on the court. I don't think the average player is lining up to get blocked and then knocked on his *** by Oden.


It may not be "everybody", but there will be some. The established stars (Wade, LeBron, Kobe) will want to put the kid in his place. Other youngsters like Mayo and Beasley will see it as a chance to prove themselves. 

(And that's just the *little* guys. Other big men will really go out of their way to test him!)


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## yuyuza1 (May 24, 2006)

Anyone listening to this drama queen's show right now? He's questioning Oden's readiness for next year because of Greg's comments at the ESPYs where he apparently said he is "currently at 80%," supposedly contradicting management's claim that he's ready to go now. As usual, he's making a mountain of a molehill. 

And who is this John Strong fool? Dude's a bigger sensationalist than Clownzo. Bring back Gavin!

Edit: bwahahhahah!!! He's now demanding someone from the Blazers set things straight. This guy is an absolute tool.


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## c_note (Jan 30, 2007)

Reep said:


> So if I actually attended the summer league games, and still observed the fouls then I'm a hater? I flew out to Vegas, paid for a hotel and the games because I'm a hater?
> 
> There were some terrible calls, but it would be burrying your head in the sand to think that those same terrible calls won't follow Oden around his first year in the league.


Ummm, I'm pretty sure the regular season refs are a lot better than greenhorns in the summer league...

I'm not talking only about the little fouls that should have been no-calls; I remember seeing many that were either just completely all-ball or Greg didn't even touch the guy.


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## PapaG (Oct 4, 2004)

Oldmangrouch said:


> It may not be "everybody", but there will be some. The established stars (Wade, LeBron, Kobe) will want to put the kid in his place. Other youngsters like Mayo and Beasley will see it as a chance to prove themselves.
> 
> (And that's just the *little* guys. Other big men will really go out of their way to test him!)


Notice I said "the average player". It was in response to a post about how every player with a 30" vertical (or pretty much everyone in the NBA) would try to dunk on Oden.

I don't see it happening outside of the superstars you mentioned.


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## nikolokolus (Jan 29, 2008)

yuyuza1 said:


> Anyone listening to this drama queen's show right now? He's questioning Oden's readiness for next year because of Greg's comments at the ESPYs where he apparently said he is "currently at 80%," supposedly contradicting management's claim that he's ready to go now. As usual, he's making a mountain of a molehill.
> 
> And who is this John Strong fool? Dude's a bigger sensationalist than Clownzo. Bring back Gavin!
> 
> Edit: bwahahhahah!!! He's now demanding someone from the Blazers set things straight. This guy is an absolute tool.


I'm listening too. I will say this, Canzano does know how to stir up a controversy for the sake of kicking up dust and possibly increasing his ratings (or at least creating a news story out of thin air).

Demanding that the Blazers come on to set the record straight is genius; I'm guessing his bookings were pretty low for the day and he needs something or someone to speed up a slow news day in Portland.

Training camp and the regular season can't get here soon enough.


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## PapaG (Oct 4, 2004)

nikolokolus said:


> I'm listening too. I will say this, Canzano does know how to stir up a controversy for the sake of kicking up dust and possibly increasing his ratings (or at least creating a news story out of thin air).
> 
> Demanding that the Blazers come on to set the record straight is genius; I'm guessing his bookings were pretty low for the day and he needs something or someone to speed up a slow news day in Portland.
> 
> Training camp and the regular season can't get here soon enough.


Well, to be fair, Oden's comments surprised me as well. 80% healthy and discomfort that must be played through is not exactly good news, is it?

Plus, if he is only 80%, that makes Oden playing in the pick-up games at 24 Hour Fitness seem even more dumb.


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## ppilot (Jun 29, 2006)

nikolokolus said:


> I'm listening too. I will say this, Canzano does know how to stir up a controversy for the sake of kicking up dust and possibly increasing his ratings (or at least creating a news story out of thin air).
> 
> Demanding that the Blazers come on to set the record straight is genius; I'm guessing his bookings were pretty low for the day and he needs something or someone to speed up a slow news day in Portland.
> 
> Training camp and the regular season can't get here soon enough.


My respect for KP just shot up a notch after listening to that interview. I love how his entire line of questioning was trying to instill the idea that oden is not as healthy as people are letting, but when KP squashed that line of thought he immediately pulled a 180 and asked why wasn't Oden in Summer League. Man this guy is a piece of work. This guy is a amazing at creating drama out of nowhere.


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## It's_GO_Time (Oct 13, 2005)

Did he really say 80%? Ouch . . . because didn't KP say he was 90-95% during the last summer league game?


Funny about this 80%, because yahoo has an article on Oden where he flat out says he is ready to play.

LOS ANGELES (AP)—Greg Oden is itching to get his delayed NBA career going, but he’s still forbidden from any 5-on-5 action until September.

Oden’s rookie season was over before it even started when he had right knee surgery last September. Recovery can take six months or more, and the Portland Trail Blazers decided their No. 1 pick would sit out the season.

“I’m still rehabbing, but I’m ready to play,” Oden told The Associated Press on Wednesday while in Los Angeles to attend the ESPY Awards. “I can work out, I can lift, no 5-on-5, no 3-on-3. That’s where everything is going, towards me being able to play when the season starts, but I’m ready.”


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## ppilot (Jun 29, 2006)

It's_GO_Time said:


> Did he really say 80%? Ouch . . . because didn't KP say he was 90-95% during the last summer league game?
> 
> 
> Funny about this 80%, because yahoo has an article on Oden where he flat out says he is ready to play.


I think this takes into account the mental aspect. It will take a bit for him to feel completely comfortable in a live game situation.

Canzano's obsession with this % thing is pretty excessive in my opinion. KP was right in that it really is all relative. With that said I am pretty sure that Oden was just throwing at a number when asked that question without really thinking about it.


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## nikolokolus (Jan 29, 2008)

If anything I think it's possible that Greg is hedging a little to temper expectations; he probably had a conversation with Amare who told him what to expect coming back and got a little spooked. But these arbitrary 80%, 92%, 87%, numbers are asinine -- all we know is that he's most of the way back, but not 100% back.


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

Ohh no no no.... Odens Kne implded last night and he'll never ever suit down.. I went out and bought a transistor radio because of Greg Oden, but I kept the receipt so I can take it back now!!!


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## PapaG (Oct 4, 2004)

nikolokolus said:


> If anything I think it's possible that Greg is hedging a little to temper expectations; he probably had a conversation with Amare who told him what to expect coming back and got a little spooked. But these arbitrary 80%, 92%, 87%, numbers are asinine -- all we know is that he's most of the way back, but not 100% back.



Frankly, I am much more concerned about the "uncomfortable" portion of Oden's comments in the interview you posted earlier today.


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## nikolokolus (Jan 29, 2008)

Schilly said:


> Ohh no no no.... Odens Kne implded last night and he'll never ever suit down.. I went out and bought a transistor radio because of Greg Oden, but I kept the receipt so I can take it back now!!!


Ahahahahahahaha.

I love the way Canzano tries to spin this, that marketing season tickets with Greg Oden is somehow disingenuous or unethical when KP and his staff aren't 100% sure he's 100%. 

If you are stupid (or well heeled) enough to blow your money on season tickets just because of one player you deserve all the disappointment in the world. The bottom line: Even without Greg, this is a team worth watching and rooting for.

Also insinuating that KP is somehow setting a smokescreen or hiding Greg's "true" recovery status is a little bit low.

Gah, I'm now forced to turn the dial and listen to Isaac and Big Suck ... on second thought I think I'm going to crack a beer and go sit outside in my backyard.


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## ppilot (Jun 29, 2006)

Schilly said:


> Ohh no no no.... Odens Kne implded last night and he'll never ever suit down.. I went out and bought a transistor radio because of Greg Oden, but I kept the receipt so I can take it back now!!!


Man, this manufactured topic sounds even more stupid when it is in writing. I really just want to call in and call him out on this but I would never get through the screeners


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## yuyuza1 (May 24, 2006)

:lol: He thinks it's disingenuous of the Blazers to market Oden when he's not 100% healthy. 

Fire this fool, already.


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## nikolokolus (Jan 29, 2008)

PapaG said:


> Frankly, I am much more concerned about the "uncomfortable" portion of Oden's comments in the interview you posted earlier today.


It's not the exact same thing, but I had an ACL replacement two and half years ago, and I can guarantee that there is discomfort with a knee injury even 10 months to a year after surgery, it doesn't mean debilitating pain or structural defects (aside from scar tissue which still occasionally cracks and pops even today), but discomfort was there for sure.

I guess it's a possibility that he's experiencing pain and he's still a long ways off, but it seems highly unlikely that Jay Jensen, Bobby Medina, and his doctors don't have a complete picture of what the internals of his knee looks like with MRIs, bone scans, x-rays and CTs, and have a pretty good idea of where he is at and where he'll be by training camp.


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

Aren't most nba players at 80% in mid-July?


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## ppilot (Jun 29, 2006)

I am officially switching to 94.7 right now. My intelligence has been insulted enough for one day. Seriously, he is now throwing out conspiracy theories as to why Oden is not playing in Summer League and saying that Pryzbilla is better than GO at 85%. 

Random question....does anybody know KP's e-mail address?


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## Oldmangrouch (Feb 11, 2003)

Schilly said:


> Aren't most nba players at 80% in mid-July?


:lol: Ain't that the truth!

Oden saying he is "80%" may mean the knee is only 80% healed....but it could just as easily mean that he isn't in "game shape" yet. It could refer to the rust on his game. It could refer to his confidence. 

Once again, Canzano is acting the fool. I'd bet the rent he never even thought to *ask* what Oden meant!


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## ppilot (Jun 29, 2006)

Hahahaha......everybody on Courtside including KP are making fun of Canzano with rice saying he is only 85%. KP whipped back saying that he thinks rice is only 75%. Seriously funny stuff


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## Reep (Jun 4, 2003)

ppilot said:


> Hahahaha......everybody on Courtside including KP are making fun of Canzano with rice saying he is only 85%. KP whipped back saying that he thinks rice is only 75%. Seriously funny stuff


Yeah, it was pretty funny.

KP says Oden's knee has no swelling, the muscle is fully back, and the MRI showed good cartilage growth. KP thinks it is just Oden being cautious. Although, Oden did seem to indicate that it did still hurt a little.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

Reep said:


> 2007 NCAA playoffs
> 
> Xavier: fouled out
> Tenn: 4 PF, 18 min
> ...


Not sure if pointing out 4 fouls in 38 minutes (out of what, 40?) is a really good point..nor do I think pointing out 5 out of 30 (?) games where he had 4 is a good point either.


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## Reep (Jun 4, 2003)

Dan said:


> Not sure if pointing out 4 fouls in 38 minutes (out of what, 40?) is a really good point..nor do I think pointing out 5 out of 30 (?) games where he had 4 is a good point either.


Pointing out 4 fouls in 38 minutes is called not picking and choosing data points. It wasn't to make a point [of course it goes against my premise] it was to be accurate and fair. 

I didn't cherry pick his worst games, I picked his most recent five college games, which happened to be against some of the best teams he faced. I think those are more relevant than some of his early games coming off his injury and games against lesser opponents.

If it makes you feel better you can say "Oden didn't have major foul trouble in the regular season, but seemed to struggle with fould trouble in the tournament." Just because he didn't have as many fouls in the regular season doesn't mean that he didn't have fould trouble in the tournament, and that that foul trouble might be relevant to his start as a rookie in the NBA.


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## Boob-No-More (Apr 24, 2006)

Schilly said:


> Aren't most nba players at 80% in mid-July?


If they're lucky. I think Sheed is at about 40% and Shaq is at -80%.

BNM


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## Oldmangrouch (Feb 11, 2003)

Not to be pedantic, but most of this debate is academic. Virtually ALL rookie big men have foul trouble. Good grief, LMA (who is far less aggressive than Oden) had games where he collected 3 fouls in 10 minutes and Nate exiled him to the bench the rest of the night! 

As a rookie, Oden WILL have nights when he is in foul trouble, and it WON'T mean anything in the long run. Why are we even arguing over this? Let the rookie be a rookie.


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