# Pistons confirm Darko-Arroyo to Orlando trade rumors



## spongyfungy

> Trade talk: With the trade deadline 10 days away, the rumor mill has heated up. The annual Darko Milicic trade rumors are circulating, as have reports that reserve point guard Carlos Arroyo might be dealt. *Florida Today reported Saturday that the Orlando Magic has contacted the Pistons about acquiring Milicic and Arroyo for injured center Kelvin Cato and a first-round draft pick. The Pistons confirmed Sunday that Orlando had contacted them about Milicic and Arroyo.*
> 
> Saunders said Arroyo has been "pretty productive" in the last few games. After Monday's practice, Arroyo headed into the front office, where president of basketball operations Joe Dumars and vice president of basketball operations John Hammond work. Beforehand, Arroyo said he's "always heard the rumors."
> 
> Yes, he would like more playing time, but Arroyo also said, "I'm grateful to be here."


http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060214/SPORTS03/602140433/1051/SPORTS


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## spongyfungy

*Re: Pistons confirm rumors Darko-Arroyo to Orlando trade rumors*



> That is why he continues to pick up the phone and listen to offers from other teams as the Feb. 23 trade deadline looms. That is why last Friday in Orlando, he sat down with Magic assistant general manager Dave Twardzik to revisit a potential trade he had already turned down a month ago.
> 
> The Magic have been interested in acquiring point guard Carlos Arroyo and forward Darko Milicic. They are offering the Pistons a partially protected first-round pick and center Kelvin Cato, whose $8.5 million contract expires after this season. This trade, which is still being discussed, would have virtually no impact on the Pistons this season. Arroyo has been averaging less than 10 minutes for the past month or more, and that time might be cut further once Lindsey Hunter returns to game shape. Milicic is out of the rotation.
> 
> The Pistons likely would waive Cato, who has been hurt all year.
> 
> But, with the pick (which would be protected for the first five or seven picks) and the $8.5 million of salary cap relief, the Pistons would be addressing some long-term needs.


http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060214/SPORTS0102/602140396/1127


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## Midnight_Marauder

*Re: Pistons confirm rumors Darko-Arroyo to Orlando trade rumors*

I say get Grant Hill involved somehow....


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## Lope31

*Re: Pistons confirm rumors Darko-Arroyo to Orlando trade rumors*



Midnight_Marauder said:


> I say get Grant Hill involved somehow....


Interesting thought, what do other Pistons fans think about this. I gotta say I would be for it, provided Hill even ever sets foot on a court again. How is he even doing?

EDIT: Just checked and found out that Hill played his first game in nearly a month on the 12th of February.


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## spongyfungy

*Re: Pistons confirm rumors Darko-Arroyo to Orlando trade rumors*

According to Frank Isola of the NY daily news, this deal is contingent on the three team deal between the Nuggets, Magic and the Knicks. "A deal for Martin likely would include point guard Earl Watson and guard Voshon Lenard heading to New York, with Jamal Crawford and Trevor Ariza going to Orlando along with the Nuggets' Nene. The Nuggets would get Francis."

The Nuggets want Frye but Isiah is pulling him off the table.


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## ChrisWoj

*Re: Pistons confirm rumors Darko-Arroyo to Orlando trade rumors*



Midnight_Marauder said:


> I say get Grant Hill involved somehow....


If we could get Grant Hill to back up Tayshaun Prince... having Hill retire as a Piston would be great. Hill is somebody I always hated to see leave...


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## MLKG

*Re: Pistons confirm rumors Darko-Arroyo to Orlando trade rumors*

I don't understand this at all.

Dealing Darko for cap space and a draft pick is one thing. It doesn't affect us in any way this year and if they've completely given up on him then maybe that would be for the best.

Put throwing in Arroyo as well? Now I'm definately not the biggest Arroyo fan in the world but we can't just give him away. That WOULD affect our prospects of winning this year.

I'm not exactly comfortable with the thought of a 35 year old Lindsey Hunter coming off of ankle surgery as our only back up point guard. Unles Acker has really been showing something in practice this seems really shakey.

And if we're dealing for a draft pick don't accept any protection and at least try to get Fran Vasquez thrown in.

I don't get it. This is easily the least appealing deal of any of the Darko rumors. Might as well just keep him.


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## PacersguyUSA

*Re: Pistons confirm rumors Darko-Arroyo to Orlando trade rumors*

How injured is Cato? Sounds like Orlando is getting the bad end of this.


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## Lope31

*Re: Pistons confirm rumors Darko-Arroyo to Orlando trade rumors*



PacersguyUSA said:


> How injured is Cato? Sounds like Orlando is getting the bad end of this.


I missed you Pacersguy. :biggrin:


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## rainman

*Re: Pistons confirm rumors Darko-Arroyo to Orlando trade rumors*



PacersguyUSA said:


> How injured is Cato? Sounds like Orlando is getting the bad end of this.


5 years from now darko will be in the allstar game and cato will be working in a carwash. remember where you heard it from.


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## HKF

*Re: Pistons confirm rumors Darko-Arroyo to Orlando trade rumors*

Darko Millicic will be an all-star 5 years from now? In the NBA?


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## rainman

*Re: Pistons confirm rumors Darko-Arroyo to Orlando trade rumors*



HKF said:


> Darko Millicic will be an all-star 5 years from now? In the NBA?


thats what i'm saying. book it.


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## Lope31

*Re: Pistons confirm rumors Darko-Arroyo to Orlando trade rumors*

There was no point in Cato's career where he has been worth what Darko Milicic is already, not being a Darko homer, and not being a Cato hater. That's just the truth. Trading players for players than can have a better impact on your team is what basketball is all about. This is not one of those trades, it will never happen. Unless this draft pick is more valuable than I suspect. 

Neither Darko, or Arroyo alone would make sense to get rid of in hopes of acquiring Cato. I'm sorry. This can't be a real rumour, because Joe Dumars is not brain dead.


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## Zuca

*Re: Pistons confirm rumors Darko-Arroyo to Orlando trade rumors*



Lope31 said:


> There was no point in Cato's career where he has been worth what Darko Milicic is already, not being a Darko homer, and not being a Cato hater. That's just the truth. Trading players for players than can have a better impact on your team is what basketball is all about. This is not one of those trades, it will never happen. Unless this draft pick is more valuable than I suspect.
> 
> Neither Darko, or Arroyo alone would make sense to get rid of in hopes of acquiring Cato. I'm sorry. This can't be a real rumour, because Joe Dumars is not brain dead.


I think this is more of a way to get rid of Arroyo's long-term contract and get something for Darko, since he isn't playing now... Vasquez would be perfect in this case, since Pistons can wait for him and just SIGN him when they NEED him... If you get Diener from Orlando also, it would be fine for both teams...


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## froggyvk

*Re: Pistons confirm rumors Darko-Arroyo to Orlando trade rumors*

Howard and Darko is not something I'd want to face in the future.

At the same time, though, Darko's worth will never be seen in Detroit. When the Pistons drafted Darko, they didn't have Rasheed, and had a place for him in the future. Now that the Pistons have Rasheed and eventually Ben locked up long-term, not to mention McDyess, there's room for Darko. If that pick is only Top 8 protected which is right about where the Magic would pick today, and the Pistons could draft a scorer, I think it'd be an OK deal. Most likely though, from the Magic perspective if they're looking for a center, Darko is better than anyone avaliable at #8. Remember, Darko was a better prospect than a guy like Bogut was coming out last year and I still believe he has great potential.

It makes sense for both teams, I wouldn't mind if it happened, partly because I want to see what Darko can really do when he gets minutes, which would happen in Orlando.


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## JNice

..

I suspect as has been suggested if it were to happen it would be Cato, Diener, and Fran Vasquez's rights for Darko, Arroyo, and maybe some other garbage throw in ... like some cash or a 2nd round pick.

Orlando gets a shot to see what Darko can do now. Detroit gets another potential very good Euro who doesn't want to come over for 3-4 yrs. Late last year I watched a Euroleague game played by Vasquez against Mario Kasun's team .. I think Croatia? Maybe .. anyway, Vasquez was very good. Ended with something like 24-11. He is like a poor man's Dwight Howard. Same kind of body type. Lanky, lean, and athletic. I don't expect him to be Dwight Howard but he could end up pretty good.


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## YoYoYoWasup

Maybe it's just me, but I don't want that scrub Darko coming in and hindering Dwight's progress.


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## JNice

YoYoYoWasup said:


> Maybe it's just me, but I don't want that scrub Darko coming in and hindering Dwight's progress.


I think to build a great team you've got to take chances. Even in limited PT Darko has shown great skill for a guy his size. He needs time to get in, bang around, and learn from mistakes.

I think he could be a great compliment next to Dwight. And the two would be able to switch at PF and C depending on matchups.

It could flop ... but if Darko develops they could become the best big man duo in the league in a couple years.

Plus what are we giving up? Not much really. Vasquez maybe but he is making good money in Europe. It might be hard to entice him to come over to Orlando. And Detroit gets help in keeping the crew together for another 4-5 runs at a ring.


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## rainman

*Re: Pistons confirm rumors Darko-Arroyo to Orlando trade rumors*



froggyvk said:


> Howard and Darko is not something I'd want to face in the future.
> 
> At the same time, though, Darko's worth will never be seen in Detroit. When the Pistons drafted Darko, they didn't have Rasheed, and had a place for him in the future. Now that the Pistons have Rasheed and eventually Ben locked up long-term, not to mention McDyess, there's room for Darko. If that pick is only Top 8 protected which is right about where the Magic would pick today, and the Pistons could draft a scorer, I think it'd be an OK deal. Most likely though, from the Magic perspective if they're looking for a center, Darko is better than anyone avaliable at #8. Remember, Darko was a better prospect than a guy like Bogut was coming out last year and I still believe he has great potential.
> 
> It makes sense for both teams, I wouldn't mind if it happened, partly because I want to see what Darko can really do when he gets minutes, which would happen in Orlando.


excellant read on that whole situation there, its a gamble worth taking for orlando,as a matter of fact its a no brainer, something tells me dumars comes to his senses and realizes he can get more for darko.


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## JNice

..

Ric Bucher reported on ESPN the deal is close. Cato and a first round pick for Darko and Arroyo. He said the main thing to be decided is the protection on the pick. He said expect to hear something in 24 hrs.


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## froggyvk

*Re: Pistons confirm rumors Darko-Arroyo to Orlando trade rumors*

Could happen by Wednesday:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2331049


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## DetroitDiesel

The amount of noise being generated by this deal is making me nervous. 

There are only 2 ways I could possibly approve of this trade. 
- getting a pg back in return
- turning around and making another trade right off the bat, maybe even grabbing mike james.

The only purpose of this deal as structured would be to be able to resign ben for a ludicrous amount or to try and make a splash in fa this summer. And this fa class is garbage.


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## PaCeRhOLiC

*Re: Pistons confirm rumors Darko-Arroyo to Orlando trade rumors*



HKF said:


> NBA?



NBA Live perhaps???...but then again...



*Go PaCeRs!!!!!*


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## froggyvk

If Darko goes to Orlando and succeeds, people will say we made a bad trade, but fact is Darko will never succeed in Detroit because of the players in front of him.

If we can net a Top 10 pick from Orlando and draft a shooter off the bench, maybe J.J. Redick, then he would be more valuable to us than Darko ever would be.


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## scapegoat

if we did this and got the cap room, what would our cap situation look like? as i understand it, we have unlimited money to throw at ben, but could we sign a decent FA next year? would we also be able to use the MLE?

if so, i'm looking at guys like marcus banks, chucky atkins, or bobby jackson.


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## DetroitDiesel

What do the pistons need a shooter off the bench for? They need a solid backup point and another backup big cuz dyess aint getting any younger either.


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## Brian.

Can't say I am not glad to see Darko gone. He was given a chance earlier this year to do something and he didn't. Furthermore he hasn't shown any hustle or desire. I would much rather see a guy like Maxiell get some minutes then Darko.


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## MLKG

Well, if it happens, that lottery pick can't be protected. If it's not protected, it's a good deal. 

If Orlando also deals Steve Francis it's pretty clear they are going to hover around where they are record wise.

A top 10 pick in the draft could really really bolster our bench next year and make up for the fact that we're trading a guy who is supposed to be the future for cap space to sign a 31 year old player for whom we already have bird rights.

Rodney Carney, JJ Reddick, Randy Foye, Ronnie Brewer...... I'd probably trade Darko for any of those guys today. Those guys are 5-10 range. They would help a lot off of the bench.

Rodney Carney would be amazing....

No protection on the draft pick (or at least not outside top 3) and I can at least be excited about this trade.


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## DetBNyce

How long do you have to wait to trade a guy? Or a better question would be could we turn around and deal Cato like Atlanta did Sheed? I know if I have a guy sitting on the end of my bench I'd rather it be Darko than Cato, but giving up Carlos, as bad as he is sometimes makes no sense (unless Joe has something else up his sleeve). 

Is Darko's value this low that all we can get for him is Cato and a first round draft pick? A high first rounder at that, which has not exactly been a good thing for Joe so far. This trade makes some of the trades I've seen offered on this board for Darko look good.


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## Larry Hughes for Retirement

Not once have i seen one post about how your making this trade too keep Ben Wallace. Isnt Cato a big expiring contract this summer? and Ben Wallace is a FA?

Wouldnt this make sence to say the Pistons are doin this 1) Have another big body and 6 fouls on Shaq in the playoffs. 2) cut about 7million in cap space and re-sign Ben Wallace. 3) You have a pick that can get you a PG to replace arroyo


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## md6655321

Cato can be traded immediately as long he is traded alone. If he is packaged with other players, we would have to wait 15 days i think, which would take us past the trade dealine.

But this trade isnt for 'cap space' per se but just money in general. We will save 9.2 million off of next years salaries with this trade. Which is neccessary cash for Ben and Chauncey. And remember, to keep Darko he would need an extension after next season too. And if Kwame Brown can get an 8 mill a year deal, so could Darko. So he had no chance.

Getting cap space and a top ten pick is worth it, but hopefully Joe has another deal for a pg. How about Cato and a 2nd for Earl Watson? That would be amazing.


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## Larry Hughes for Retirement

md6655321 said:


> Getting cap space and a top ten pick is worth it, but hopefully Joe has another deal for a pg. How about Cato and a 2nd for Earl Watson? That would be amazing.


Didnt you just talk about how this trade was for cap space to get Ben and Billups back, and now you want a PG who makes 35 million over the next 5 years... yikes...!


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## md6655321

I have no problem spending other peoples money!


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## DetBNyce

We can go over the cap to re-sign Ben and any of our other players. If it means paying a luxury tax, then so be it. I almost sure Mr. Davidson would rather pay some luxury tax dollars than not contend for a championship. And I understand a top 10 pick is a top 10 pick, but Arroyo is still the best thing we option at backup PG for us right now. I'd rather win another championship than have a top 10 pick next year.


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## DetBNyce

Also so I guess it's more than safe to say drafting Darko was a huge mistake.


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## STUCKEY!

Yep Darko is new named should be sir bust alot


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## froggyvk

DetBNyce said:


> Also so I guess it's more than safe to say drafting Darko was a huge mistake.


Mistake for the Pistons, I agree; mistake at #2, maybe not. He could do great things in Orlando, too early to tell for that one.


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## DetBNyce

Well yea my main concern is the Pistons, so he's definitely a bust on that front. I think it's a good deal for Orlando, Milicic and Howard are made for each other (if Darko can do his part). I still think Darko can be good, maybe not dominating, but I think he'll be able to put up some points and maybe dominate defensively. 

I think I'm just mad about how this whole thing will turn out if he's traded if all we get out of a #2 pick is Kelvin Cato and a first rounder... I'm not happy about that at all.

I know on last night's telecast Dumars said he would pursue another backup PG if we do trade Arroyo, but how many times can Dumars get away with getting some other GM to help us out?


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## md6655321

Rephrased, turning an underachieving player who gets no minutes into 9 million in cap space and lottery pick is a VERY good deal. Cato isnt who Joe is trading for, its the extra money.

Im still very concerned about pg depth, but if we can get a top ten pick, i think joe did quite well. Stein espn actually have a few good articles about the situation, linked from the main page.


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## char_renee

md6655321 said:


> Rephrased, turning an underachieving player who gets no minutes into 9 million in cap space and lottery pick is a VERY good deal. Cato isnt who Joe is trading for, its the extra money.
> 
> Im still very concerned about pg depth, but if we can get a top ten pick, i think joe did quite well. Stein espn actually have a few good articles about the situation, linked from the main page.


from the insider who is a reliable source for the pistons it was report on AM12.70 here in detroit assuming that magic/detroit trade goes down.cato will be included in another trade with the pick to get mike james from toronto to return back to detroit.


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## STUCKEY!

I would love to get mike james back in motown


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## char_renee

SHEED! said:


> I would love to get mike james back in motown


 it's only a rumor but i was listening to am12.70 and their claiming their was a piston insider who claimed pistons were talkin to toronto about mike james,and to get him they would make a trade including cato and the 1st round pick.and you know joe d is up to something he wont just give away a #2 pg unless it's for a good reason.


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## DetBNyce

We don't need cap space, we have bird rights. I still feel unless there is something else lined up than this is a bad trade. But if he can turn Darko and Arroyo into a first rounder and Mike James then I'm all for it. He'd essentially be traded Darko for a pick and Arroyo for James.


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## Brian.

SHEED! said:


> I would love to get mike james back in motown


Oh man I would probably break into tears of joy if we got Mike James back.


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## shookem

Mike James would be great in Detroit.

But I'm not sure who Toronto would be getting in this rumored deal?


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## Gotham2krazy

YoYoYoWasup said:


> Maybe it's just me, but I don't want that scrub Darko coming in and hindering Dwight's progress.


i don't think it would hinder howard's progress in anyway. as tall as they both are i think howard's more suitable as a C and darko's more of a PF, ever since the start of this year, i've thought of dwight as a center, seeing as how he bulked up and got stronger, he looks like your typical center, a banger, a tough guy, whereas even though darko's taller by like 2 inches, he seems lankier and more suited as a PF. if darko develops down in Orlando, it would be a nasty combo of a front court in dwight and darko


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## Gotham2krazy

char_renee said:


> from the insider who is a reliable source for the pistons it was report on AM12.70 here in detroit assuming that magic/detroit trade goes down.cato will be included in another trade with the pick to get mike james from toronto to return back to detroit.


doubt james would want to comeback to motown. he left for a reason, he didn't want to play backup and plus, he's having a career year, bosh likes him and that should be enough to keep him there.


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## Odomiles

If this trade doesn't go through, why not go after Al Harrington instead of Cato? You'd still have the cap space at the end of the year, but Harrington, unlike Cato, would actually be a good addition in terms of winning another championship this year.

If the Magic don't budge on the draft pick, I would definitely look at this as an option. If the pick is top 10, though, this is probably one of the better deals out there.


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## rainman

i would hope when he's gone people would wish him well and say it didnt work out that he was behind some great veteran players and it was managements position not to play him. anyone who thinks the kid got a fair shake there is blinded by homerism. the few times in his first few years when he actually saw the court in a meaningful situation he did well and then was rewarded with more time on the pine. i guess the whole thing is magnified by the number of really good young players they passed up, if it were a bad to mediocre draft i dont think anyone would really care.


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## DetBNyce

It's a tough situation, I didn't see the point of him playing because he had 4 guys in front of him who were better and that gave us a better chance to win, but to be fair he did look effective when he got meaningful minutes.

Right now Al Harrington would be a blessing.


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## thrillhouse

so has this trade happened or not?....also speaking of all this al harrington talk, i really hope the reported trade proposal during the summer did not actually exist.


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## thrillhouse

as to how i feel about this trade, if the pick is totally lottery protected then i will not be happy...if it is just top 3 then i will be reasonably happy


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## Weasel

ESPN is reporting that Darko and Arroyo have been traded to the Magic.



> The Detroit Pistons traded forward Darko Milicic and point guard Carlos Arroyo to the Orlando Magic for Kelvin Cato and a 2007 first round pick, ESPN.com has learned Wednesday.


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## froggyvk

ESPNEWS HEADLINES
BREAKING NEWS
Darko Milicic'Dark' Magic
The Darko Milicic project in Detroit is over. The Pistons have traded the former No. 2 pick and Carlos Arroyo to the Magic, ESPN.com has learned. 

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/index


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## froggyvk

From RealGM:

ESPN - The Detroit Pistons traded forward Darko Milicic and point guard Carlos Arroyo to the Orlando Magic for Kelvin Cato and a *2007 first round pick,* ESPN.com has learned Wednesday. 

No protection I'm assuming, or Maybe Top 1/2.


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## froggyvk

Wednesday, February 15, 2006	

Darko's gone...
The deal is being wrapped up as we speak, with an announcement of the trade expected to be made within the next couple of hours.

I'll have more details in a bit...

http://www.mlive.com/pistons/weblog/index.ssf?/mtlogs/mlive_pistons//


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## MinGotzSouL

and its official

http://proxy.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2332021


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## froggyvk

Final thoughts: Darko, prove us Pistons fans right.


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## MinGotzSouL

I really hope Darko tears it up at Orlando, I got love for him


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## rainman

froggyvk said:


> Final thoughts: Darko, prove us Pistons fans right.


i think you and det and a few others realized he never had a fair shake there. its up to him now, most likely they'll play him big minutes right away, if they dont they're idiots.


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## Brian.

Just heard its protected 1-5 in 2007...


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## Brian.

rainman said:


> i think you and det and a few others realized he never had a fair shake there. its up to him now, *most likely they'll play him big minutes right away, if they dont they're idiots*.


If Darko can't play regular minutes with Orlando's god awful front court then Darko has nobody to blame but his self.


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## froggyvk

Brian said:


> Just heard its protected 1-5 in 2007...


I can deal with it. At this point, any 5-13 pick we could have gotten for Darko is a good trade for Detroit, even though Darko will be better than any of the players we'd pick in that spot IMO.


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## rainman

Brian said:


> If Darko can't play regular minutes with Orlando's god awful front court then Darko has nobody to blame but his self.



they dont have anyone else there, i dont even know who their backup is behind cato, is it battie....they dont like mario kasun and he's probably going to be back to europe after this year so as it stands darko is going to be tossed into the deep end of the pool. my guess is he'll surprise a few folks.


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## DetBNyce

Brian said:


> If Darko can't play regular minutes with Orlando's god awful front court then Darko has nobody to blame but his self.



Exactly. Does this trade mean Dumars gave up on Darko being good here? 

I hope he does well in Orlando, I think he do some good with some minutes.


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## froggyvk

DetBNyce said:


> Exactly. Does this trade mean Dumars gave up on Darko being good here?
> 
> I hope he does well in Orlando, I think he do some good with some minutes.


I don't think that Dumars _wanted_ to "give up" on Darko, but I think he realized he'd never amount to anything with Wallace x 2 + Dyess in front of him.


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## STUCKEY!

Man i hope ORLANDO Bombs it next season so bad we got Number 1 pikc GREG ODEN(in my dreams)


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## MLKG

I am major pissed.

Is Joe trying to one up Isiah Thomas or something?

This is an absolutley awful deal.

It makes no basketball sense for the Pistons. None. Not on any level.

This trade actually makes us a worse team this year AND next year. Maybe the year after too.

Absolutely terrible.


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## STUCKEY!

Yay Darkos Gone Let Party!


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## Enigma

SHEED! said:


> Man i hope ORLANDO Bombs it next season so bad we got Number 1 pikc GREG ODEN(in my dreams)


The 2007 pick is protected through the top 5 supposedly. If Orlando bombs and get the top pick, Oden will be playing for the Magic, not the Pistons.


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## STUCKEY!

? what i dont get it explain i dont know what it exactly means by protected


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## froggyvk

Mike luvs KG said:


> I am major pissed.
> 
> Is Joe trying to one up Isiah Thomas or something?
> 
> This is an absolutley awful deal.
> 
> It makes no basketball sense for the Pistons. None. Not on any level.
> 
> This trade actually makes us a worse team this year AND next year. Maybe the year after too.
> 
> Absolutely terrible.


But you have to remember, I've said it before, even if Darko explodes in Orlando, would he ever do that in Detroit? Mostly likely, he'd play for the Q.O. in two years, then be an UFA and leave Detroit. Even if Darko turns in to a great player, a guard in the 2007 may have more of an impact than Darko ever would. And besides, another Top 10 pick for Otis Thorpe isn't bad.


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## Sánchez AF

Darko's Deal done 
I wanna see what Darko can do now

BTW so now that the Magic got a PG in Arroyo this means Steve Francis deal is close ?


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## MLKG

froggyvk said:


> But you have to remember, I've said it before, even if Darko explodes in Orlando, would he ever do that in Detroit? Mostly likely, he'd play for the Q.O. in two years, then be an UFA and leave Detroit. Even if Darko turns in to a great player, a guard in the 2007 may have more of an impact than Darko ever would. And besides, another Top 10 pick for Otis Thorpe isn't bad.


My issue is with the extent of the protection and Carlos Arroyo as nothing but a throw in.

Are you comfortable with a 35 year old Lindsey Hunter coming off an ankle surgery that has had him out for the last 6 months suddenly becoming our only backup point guard with any sort of NBA experience? I pray Alex Acker has been showing something in practice.

We drafted Darko with a #2 pick, traded a 1st round pick for Arroyo, and now are trading them both for a (maybe) 2007 pick, possibly 2008.

If Orlando refused to relent on pick protection Dumars should have backed out. It's as simple as that. 

I want Rodney Carney. That's the guy that would have made this deal for me. Tell Orlando top 3 protected this year, we'll take your pick, you'll struggle next year, and good luck with Oden, we don't care, we want Carney.

My fear is by the time 2007, 2008 roles around that draft pick is going to be in the 15-20 range.


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## froggyvk

Mike luvs KG said:


> My issue is with the extent of the protection and Carlos Arroyo as nothing but a throw in.
> 
> Are you comfortable with a 35 year old Lindsey Hunter coming off an ankle surgery that has had him out for the last 6 months suddenly becoming our only backup point guard with any sort of NBA experience? I pray Alex Acker has been showing something in practice.
> 
> We drafted Darko with a #2 pick, traded a 1st round pick for Arroyo, and now are trading them both for a (maybe) 2007 pick, possibly 2008.
> 
> If Orlando refused to relent on pick protection Dumars should have backed out. It's as simple as that.
> 
> I want Rodney Carney. That's the guy that would have made this deal for me. Tell Orlando top 3 protected this year, we'll take your pick, you'll struggle next year, and good luck with Oden, we don't care, we want Carney.
> 
> My fear is by the time 2007, 2008 roles around that draft pick is going to be in the 15-20 range.


Well, search my name on this forums and the text "Lindsey Hunter sucks." and you'll know I'm not happy. But I don't think Joe is done yet...he's got to have another move up his sleeve.

Carney's not a guarentee to be in the 2006 draft.

Yes, a possible 15-20 is the definite risk in the deal.


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## MLKG

froggyvk said:


> But I don't think Joe is done yet...he's got to have another move up his sleeve.


"Right now, I have to get to work on finding another back-up point guard"

http://detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060215/UPDATE/602150451

Nothing is lined up.

Ugh.


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## Sánchez AF

Mike luvs KG said:


> "Right now, I have to get to work on finding another back-up point guard"
> 
> http://detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060215/UPDATE/602150451
> 
> Nothing is lined up.
> 
> Ugh.


Obviously This move was made to take Cato expiring, an work on re-sign Ben this summer and work on a extension for Billups


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## MLKG

Brooklyn said:


> Obviously This move was made to take Cato expiring, an work on re-sign Ben this summer and work on a extension for Billups


Which is a financial move, not a basketball one. We don't need Cato's contract to resign Ben and Billups.

Like I said. As of now, we are a worse basketball team now and at least next year.


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## JNice

..

If I were a Detroit fan I'd be keeping my eye on what happens with Francis. That will be an indication of which way Orlando is headed. If they deal him and get a couple of decent players back then there is a good chance Detroit would end up with something like a 2008 mid first rounder.

But if a deal goes down like Francis for Penny Hardaway just for purposes of clearing future cap space then that pick could be looking pretty good.


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## PacersguyUSA

*Re: Pistons confirm rumors Darko-Arroyo to Orlando trade rumors*



rainman said:


> 5 years from now darko will be in the allstar game and cato will be working in a carwash. remember where you heard it from.


If Darko ever gets 8 PPG I'll give you credit.


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## DTigre

What happens if Darko turns out to be a bust and Orl keeps the 1-5 pick?


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## froggyvk

DTigre said:


> What happens if Darko turns out to be a bust and Orl keeps the 1-5 pick?


In that scenario we would get their 2008 pick no matter what.


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## DTigre

Is that protected too?


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## JNice

*Re: Pistons confirm rumors Darko-Arroyo to Orlando trade rumors*



PacersguyUSA said:


> If Darko ever gets 8 PPG I'll give you credit.



I wouldn't be surprised to see him get 8 PPG for the rest of this season in Orlando.


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## froggyvk

DTigre said:


> Is that protected too?


No...


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## YoYoYoWasup

*Re: Pistons confirm rumors Darko-Arroyo to Orlando trade rumors*



JNice said:


> I wouldn't be surprised to see him get 8 PPG for the rest of this season in Orlando.


He's still going to be behind Battie on the depth chart, so I doubt it. All I want to see from Darko is progress.


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## DetroitDiesel

Ugh. I feel like vomiting. 

As much as I dont care about darko and will probably be glad not to be talking about him anymore.
As much as carlos arroyo frustrates the hell out of me sometimes.

I don't get why we didn't get a pg back. And I don't get why we would take a pick that is protected. If all we are getting is cap space and a pick I at least want the outside chance it could turn into one of those truly awesome prospects. Hopefully the 07 draft is as good as they say.

I just don't see how this helps us win a title this year. I hope joe d has a clear vision.


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## ChrisWoj

It has been done.

Darko will be missed.


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## DTigre

Bring on the new human victory cigar...


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## DetBNyce

Let's see we don't necessarily need the money to re-sign Ben and/or Chauncey, and now we have a guy who just returned mid-season being the backup on a championship caliber team. Why did we do this deal again? To avoid a luxury tax? I'm finding a hard time believing that this deal actually benefits us in some way. Like Mike said we aren't as good now at the current time, and Darko can't be a crutch for those saying we'll make a smooth transition in the future.]

Joe better have a smooth one up his sleeve, otherwise I'm mad he's messing with a championship team.


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## JNice

*Re: Pistons confirm rumors Darko-Arroyo to Orlando trade rumors*



YoYoYoWasup said:


> He's still going to be behind Battie on the depth chart, so I doubt it. All I want to see from Darko is progress.


I don't know ... I could see him getting up to around 25 mpg right off the bat. I have a feeling Pat Garrity might be gone soon as well. 

I don't think they'll start him over Battie right away just because they don't want to piss him off since he is a free agent this summer and it appears they would like the re-sign him at a reasonable price.


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## Brian.

DetBNyce said:


> Let's see we don't necessarily need the money to re-sign Ben and/or Chauncey, and now we have a guy who just returned mid-season being the backup on a championship caliber team. Why did we do this deal again? To avoid a luxury tax? I'm finding a hard time believing that this deal actually benefits us in some way. Like Mike said we aren't as good now at the current time, and Darko can't be a crutch for those saying we'll make a smooth transition in the future.]
> 
> Joe better have a smooth one up his sleeve, otherwise I'm mad he's messing with a championship team.


Lindsey does everything Arroyo can do. Darko had no role on this team. I don't think Joe really messed much up. If he doesn't pick up another player either Acker or Johnson will be on the active roster now. Maxiell might also get a few more minutes. To me it seems like there will be no effect on the team other then maybe the kids getting a few more minutes.


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## PaCeRhOLiC

If I was a Pstons fan (which I thank God I'm not), I'll be mad as hell right now...

That was an awful trade, and you guys betta pray that Chauncey dont get hurt...



*Go PaCeRs!!!*


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## blueeclipse

Regardless of the reasoning.........this was NECESSARY!!! darko wasn't going to do **** here........nothing......he doesn't fit the Piston mentality. Arroys doesn't fit the Piston mentality. Our focus now should be to get a decent back-up guard. And after that we are FINE. And the rooks get some burn too in the process. I think all around is something had to be doen this isn't that bad given this was inevitable.


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## DetBNyce

Brian said:


> Lindsey does everything Arroyo can do. Darko had no role on this team. I don't think Joe really messed much up. If he doesn't pick up another player either Acker or Johnson will be on the active roster now. Maxiell might also get a few more minutes. To me it seems like there will be no effect on the team other then maybe the kids getting a few more minutes.



I don't see how this makes us better, that's my only real problem with this deal. That's what I would try to accomplish if I was a championship level team. All this deal did was take away depth. As much as I disliked Arroyo he was sometimes a nice change of pace, and hopefully Lindsey is able to stay healthy. We don't even know if Cato will be waived or what, we still have Dale Davis sitting on the bench, we lose an option to go to off the bench, and if a young kid was going to play I would've wanted that kid to be Darko.


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## froggyvk

For the Pistons fans complaining:

*Even if* Darko plays well in Orlando, can we just assume he could have done the same here in Detroit? *N-O.* Why - because Darko would never get the minutes here behind both Wallaces and McDyess. Darko may very well be a better player than whoever we get with that draft pick, but that draft pick would probably help the team more than Darko ever wood.

If Darko averages something insane throughout his career in Orlando *it is still not a bad trade for us.* Because the chances of Darko playing as well in Detroit as he might in Orlando are *slim to none.*


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## Lope31

Joe Dumars, welcome back down to earth. How does this trade help us? Simple it doesn't. What happens when you take a championship team and get rid of their top prospect and 7th man? You get just that, a champioship team without their 7th man and top prospect. Words can not explain how angry I am right now, and words can not explain what Joe Dumars was thinking.

The best thing about this deal is that nobody got electrocuted by the microphone at the press conference. NOTHING good comes from this deal, not until 2007. And at the end of the day when we're about to win another championship I couldn't care less about 2007.

Is trading Darko the wrong thing to have done? Not necessarily. But trading anybody (any person involved with the Pistons organization period) for Kelvin Cato is wrong.

Remember when we could have gotten Al Harrington for Darko Milicic? What makes you think that Kelvin Cato and a draft pick is a better option than that. Could Joe Dumars have gotten more than just Cato? I couldn't be more sure.

This is an awful trade and I couldn't endorse it to save my life.

Oh yea, and we gave up Arroyo too. WTF? Lame, Joe, lame.


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## DetBNyce

froggyvk said:


> For the Pistons fans complaining:
> 
> *Even if* Darko plays well in Orlando, can we just assume he could have done the same here in Detroit? *N-O.* Why - because Darko would never get the minutes here behind both Wallaces and McDyess. Darko may very well be a better player than whoever we get with that draft pick, but that draft pick would probably help the team more than Darko ever wood.
> 
> If Darko averages something insane throughout his career in Orlando *it is still not a bad trade for us.* Because the chances of Darko playing as well in Detroit as he might in Orlando are *slim to none.*



I have a problem because we got money in return for a guy who was supposedly the future and who's progress we were supposedly estactic about, and a guy who could've fetched much more if we would've just done this earlier. Also as i said earlier I don't like the position is sits us in. Lindsey is old and hurt, both are bad by their lonesome, yet he possesses both. I hope Darko does good down there, but I'm more concerned about this year than a 2007 draft pick or whether or not Darko would be the same player he may be down in Orlando.


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## DetroitDiesel

froggyvk said:


> For the Pistons fans complaining:
> 
> *Even if* Darko plays well in Orlando, can we just assume he could have done the same here in Detroit? *N-O.* Why - because Darko would never get the minutes here behind both Wallaces and McDyess. Darko may very well be a better player than whoever we get with that draft pick, but that draft pick would probably help the team more than Darko ever wood.
> 
> If Darko averages something insane throughout his career in Orlando *it is still not a bad trade for us.* Because the chances of Darko playing as well in Detroit as he might in Orlando are *slim to none.*



You are missing the point. Those of us complaining could give a damn about darko for the most part. We just don't understand how this helps us now. And don't kid yourself now is all that matters. Windows open and close in the snap of a finger in professional sports and ****ing with our #2 guy off the bench without getting a damn thing in return seems like sheer lunacy.


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## STUCKEY!

Just give Joe time he will get us our back up pg


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## MLKG

I'm really struggling to find the silver lining here, this is the best I can come up with:

I'm not very familiar with the new CBA, but assuming it's anything like the old one, here is the best I've got- 

With Arroyo out plus everybody coming off the books who comes off the books, we have 39 million commited salary for next season, add in Ben's 7 million dollar cap hold (i believe it goes by the money they make in their last season, could be wrong) and that's 46 million. The salary cap is around 50 million, so that gives us around 4 million in cap space for next year.

Maybe that's why Joe didn't want the draft pick this season, so he could stay under the cap and use that money to sign a guy like Mike James and then still have the MLE.

Nope.

Wait.

That money doesn't factor in Tayshaun's extension.

We're over the cap either way.

So now we just lost our 4th big man, our 2nd point guard, we have no cap space, and we don't have a 1st round pick this season.

All we have to get better with next summer is the MLE and two 2nd rounders.

We have to use the MLE to address the point guard issue. Mike James hopefully. I'm not even a superfan like a lot of Pistons fans are. But he might legitamately be the best option. That's assuming we can get him.

Ugh.

The trade gets worse the more I think about it.

I have no doubt that Orlando will be a playoff team by the time we get that draft pick from them.


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## scapegoat

froggyvk said:


> No...


actually, '06 and '08 are both completely protected. '07 is protected top-5. we'd get the '09 no matter what.


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## froggyvk

scapegoat said:


> actually, '06 and '08 are both completely protected. '07 is protected top-5. we'd get the '09 no matter what.


No, if 2007 is in the Top 5, Orlando keeps it, and we get it in 2008.


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## DetBNyce

> There is a chance that Cato might never play for the Pistons. He is 31 and idle because of a broken bone in his right foot. He had shoulder surgery over the summer and has played in only 23 games with the Magic.
> 
> The Pistons do not intend to waive him, however. They will use him as trade bait to find another point guard.
> 
> With Arroyo gone, the Pistons have Lindsey Hunter, 35, who is still regaining form after preseason ankle surgery, and rookie Alex Acker as backups to Billups. They could also use Carlos Delfino and Tayshaun Prince as fill-ins at point guard.
> 
> The Pistons, though, are expected to make a run at veterans Speedy Claxton (New Orleans), Tyronn Lue (Atlanta) and Brevin Knight (Charlotte). Claxton and Lue are in the final years of their contracts and make $3.6 million. Knight makes $4.6 this season and $4.4 in 2006-2007.


http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060216/SPORTS0102/602160362/1127


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## Benis007

Word on the street is that the Pistons want Mike James from the Raptors.

Who?

Mike James.


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## slyder

Bonehead trade. The Pistons seriously got robbed blind. There is absolutely no way the Pistons couldn't get more for Darko AND Arroyo than Kelvin Cato's cap relief and a future draft pick. I have a feeling that pick is more likely to land in the 15-20 range than the 1-5 range. Actually the chances of it being 1-5 in 2008 are about slim and none. You take Dwight Howard, add the pieces that the Magic get for Francis (if they trade him), Darko, lottery pick this year, 1-5 pick in '07, and you you have a team that won't be sitting at 1-5 in '08.

This is just an absolutely horrible trade. We gave up a first round pick to get Arroyo. And now we move him along with DARKO for a first round pick.


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## scapegoat

froggyvk said:


> No, if 2007 is in the Top 5, Orlando keeps it, and we get it in 2008.


hurm, indeed. could've sworn that when the story first broke, it was completely protected in '08.


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## TheHeff

slyder said:


> Bonehead trade. The Pistons seriously got robbed blind. There is absolutely no way the Pistons couldn't get more for Darko AND Arroyo than Kelvin Cato's cap relief and a future draft pick. I have a feeling that pick is more likely to land in the 15-20 range than the 1-5 range. Actually the chances of it being 1-5 in 2008 are about slim and none. You take Dwight Howard, add the pieces that the Magic get for Francis (if they trade him), Darko, lottery pick this year, 1-5 pick in '07, and you you have a team that won't be sitting at 1-5 in '08.
> 
> This is just an absolutely horrible trade. We gave up a first round pick to get Arroyo. And now we move him along with DARKO for a first round pick.


As U n many other Pistons fans have said I think this is a god awful trade. I understand Darko wasn't gonna amount to **** wit no playtime, but i sure as hell hope we could of gotten more for him then Cato...like stated earlier Carlos is being traded for the 1st but we traded 1 to get him in the first place...joe D better have some magic brewin to **** with a championship caliber team n get ripped off at that was a pretty poor move...redeem yourself Joe make somethin happen with cato...but even then....


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## froggyvk

Most likely Darko would not have played next year, then accepted his Qualifying Offer the following year, not play, and leave as a UFA.

That's why I don't mind the deal.


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## MLKG

froggyvk said:


> Most likely Darko would not have played next year, then accepted his Qualifying Offer the following year, not play, and leave as a UFA.
> 
> That's why I don't mind the deal.


You don't think we could have gotten a much better deal though?

He probably wasn't going to do much better for us, and trading him is not necessarily a bad idea, but why this deal? That's my problem. Not so much that we are trading Darko, but that this deal sucks.

He's going to be getting big minutes at the world championships on his NT this summer, if we were going to trade him we should have at least waited until then when his stock would be up.

The thing that pisses me off is that if this was really the best deal we could get, we traded Darko at the absolute lowest his stock has ever been. That's not good no matter how you look at it.


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## DetroitDiesel

To those who say joe is going to make another move, answer me this. What pieces does he have to make a move with? Cato's contract can't be packaged with anyone before the deadline. And who has a deceng player they are willing to give up for just cato's contract? If it is someone better than what we just lost then why didn't orlando make the trade?


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## MLKG

One more thing to ***** about (as if I haven't enough).

If we were going to trade Darko to Orlando why didn't we do it 3 weeks ago when CHUCKY ATKINS was just sitting there waiting to see what we would do before he signed with Memphis because we were "staying put".

Ugh.


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## STUCKEY!

Umm Chucky Atkins was playing for WIzards. Lmao


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## DetBNyce

Mike luvs KG said:


> One more thing to ***** about (as if I haven't enough).
> 
> If we were going to trade Darko to Orlando why didn't we do it 3 weeks ago when CHUCKY ATKINS was just sitting there waiting to see what we would do before he signed with Memphis because we were "staying put".
> 
> Ugh.


A friend of mine brought that up. He'd be in a similiar role, on a better team (no disrespect to Memphis). People can tell me all they want about a draft pick, that may or may not help us in the future, but this season we aren't better now because of this trade.

Gotta strike while the irons hot.


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## Mcdyess

Have to agree on that


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