# Coaching Stoudemire..



## Arclite (Nov 2, 2002)

I can't help but feel we don't have the right guys to do it.

Kid has all the potential in the world, and he's willing to work his *** off to fulfill it, but he can only go as far as his coaches take him. He's had enough time now to get better at positioning for rebounds, defending the pick and roll, and passing out of double teams, yet we are still not seeing improvements in any of those areas. Last night Brian Grant, who isn't real talented but knows how to use his body and is adept at positioning, abused Amare on both rebounding ends.

It's nice that he is continuing to get better and better as an offensive player (like we knew he would), but he will never be an elite forward unless he can do the other things. He's just going to have to improve in some of these areas if we plan on going anywhere.


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Arclite</b>!
> I can't help but feel we don't have the right guys to do it.
> 
> Kid has all the potential in the world, and he's willing to work his *** off to fulfill it, but he can only go as far as his coaches take him. He's had enough time now to get better at positioning for rebounds, defending the pick and roll, and passing out of double teams, yet we are still not seeing improvements in any of those areas. Last night Brian Grant, who isn't real talented but knows how to use his body and is adept at positioning, abused Amare on both rebounding ends.
> ...


the scouting report out of highschool said he was an animal and dunked everything in sight but he didnt have a lot of basketball skills, what makes anyone think that would change?


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

please...

And regarding Brian Grant. Amare wasn't the guy who was supposed to outrebound Grant.

The Lakers as a whole team abused Phoenix by getting all weak side rebounds. The team simply didn't do a good job at all at keeping them off the weak side.

PS: It's a preseason game. Amare played with the flu he didn't even practice because of that on Saturday. I could care less. The Suns gave little effort sunday night.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Here's the problem. You need to get a Center in Phoenix. Someone who can help Amare. Amare is going to avg. 10 rpg at least. However, the Suns need someone to take the pressure off him on the glass. At least occupy his man on the boards. 

They better hope the Bulls suck, so they can get Johan Petro. A Petro-Amare combo athletically would be one of the most feared for a decade.


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## Johnny Mac (May 6, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> Here's the problem. You need to get a Center in Phoenix. Someone who can help Amare. Amare is going to avg. 10 rpg at least. However, the Suns need someone to take the pressure off him on the glass. At least occupy his man on the boards.
> 
> They better hope the Bulls suck, so they can get Johan Petro. A Petro-Amare combo athletically would be one of the most feared for a decade.


The Pick was protected. If the pick is top 3, it still belongs to the Bulls and the Suns get the Bulls pick the following year, and that pick is also protected. 

I agree though, having a center next to an elite power forward is so important. Thats why the Spurs went so out of their way to get Rasho when Robinson retired. Thats why the Raptors didnt take any chances, and took Araujo way higher than he should have gone, to get a legitimate center next to Bosh. Thats why Elton Brand had his best season last year, because for the first time he had a solid center next to him, Chris Kaman. 

The Suns have a lot of talent, and their next order of business should be getting a legit center next to Amare, who is tough, can rebound, defend and protect the middle alongside Amare.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Even if the Bulls finish with the 4th pick, the Suns can still get Petro.

I think the top 3 picks will be Nemanja, Martynas, Christ Taft and maybe Chris Paul. 

Petro should be there for them if the Bulls are in the top 5.


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

The pick is top 3 protected next year, top 1 in 2006 and unprotected after 2006.


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## Johnny Mac (May 6, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> Even if the Bulls finish with the 4th pick, the Suns can still get Petro.
> 
> I think the top 3 picks will be Nemanja, Martynas, Christ Taft and maybe Chris Paul.
> ...


I'm not sure if a project is really what the Suns are looking for. If they were able to get a guy like Jeff Foster, they would be better off. They just need a guy who can guard centers efficiently night in and night out, and not completely suck on offense. Thats Jeff Foster, they need a guy like him. I think they are ready to make their move to become a contender in the next 3 seasons, drafting a project center would only delay that and ultimately prevent it. You cant wait too long. At some point, you have to make your move, especially with Stoudemire becoming a superstar. 

Petro seems like a bust anyways. He has attitude problems and is known for being lazy, from what I've read, and that just sounds like trouble.


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

Well I hope we will sign Dale Davis with some of the MLE money next offseason. He'd be a nice fit. Or Brendan Haywood I think could be had for the full MLE despite being RFA.


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

Btw, I would target Andrew Bogut, LaMarcus Aldridge and Randolph Morris in the draft.

I have no idea why nbadraft.net put Bogut at the end of the first round. He sure impressed me during the olympics and looked as tall as Duncan.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Amareca</b>!
> Btw, I would target Andrew Bogut, LaMarcus Aldridge and Randolph Morris in the draft.
> 
> I have no idea why nbadraft.net put Bogut at the end of the first round. He sure impressed me during the olympics and looked as tall as Duncan.


Bogut and Morris are definitely Centers, but Aldridge is not a Center. He is without question a PF on the next level. He is very skilled like a Bosh, so you wouldn't want to put him at the 5. 

I agree Bogut could be great next to Amare.


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## Arclite (Nov 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Amareca</b>!
> please...
> 
> And regarding Brian Grant. Amare wasn't the guy who was supposed to outrebound Grant.
> ...


It's not just a preseason game, it's been since after the all-star break when he's had every opportunity to improve on these simple things but hasn't.

You can make whatever excuses you want, but there's no excuse for Brian Grant and Chris Mihm combining for 9 offensive boards in 44 minutes. Just like there's no excuse for the 3 or 4 rebound, 0 assist, no defense games for Amare anymore.


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## Arclite (Nov 2, 2002)

*Re: Re: Coaching Stoudemire..*



> Originally posted by <b>rainman</b>!
> 
> 
> the scouting report out of highschool said he was an animal and dunked everything in sight but he didnt have a lot of basketball skills, what makes anyone think that would change?


Actually I'd say he has great basketball skills. There might be one or two bigs in the league who have his ballhandling skills, he makes great passes when he wants to (oops to Marbury? damn), and he has all the tools to be a great defender. The fact that he works as hard as he does but still isn't improving in some of these areas clearly points to coaching.


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

He averaged 10 rebounds per game after the allstar game and when he had a bad rebounding night the Suns usually outrebounded the other team because it was other Suns that got the rebounds.

And yes there is excuse for Grant and Mihm getting so many rebounds. Amare can only be on one big guy and the Suns are always fronting etc to get away with small ball and against the Lakers they got exposed on weakside rebounds giving the Lakers easy offensive boards and layups.


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## Arclite (Nov 2, 2002)

If they can't go small ball against the Lakers, exactly who is it that they are expecting to go small ball successfully against? The whole notion is idiotic, they can easily get Richardson 28-32 minutes a game off the bench without having to go small for huge chunks of a game.

And the things I'm concerned about with Amare were pre-existing, they were only exposed more when we went small. Even with our normal line-up, the coaches simply have to do a better job with Amare in regards to passing, positioning, and defense, and I'm concerned that he's displaying almost zero improvement in any of those areas.


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Arclite</b>!
> If they can't go small ball against the Lakers, exactly who is it that they are expecting to go small ball successfully against? The whole notion is idiotic, they can easily get Richardson 28-32 minutes a game off the bench without having to go small for huge chunks of a game.
> 
> And the things I'm concerned about with Amare were pre-existing, they were only exposed more when we went small. Even with our normal line-up, the coaches simply have to do a better job with Amare in regards to passing, positioning, and defense, and I'm concerned that he's displaying almost zero improvement in any of those areas.


Exactly. Sorry, even as Laker fan, it's painfully obvious that there's no reason Brian Grant and Chris Mihm should be taking any boards away from Amare. You think Ben Wallace would let Mihm and Grant grab that many boards? Amare's taller and more athletic than Wallace, or at least equally as athletic. There's no reason he shouldn’t average 11-12 boards a game.


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## Pan Mengtu (Jun 18, 2004)

I'm tired of people saying Amare _has_ to become a great defender to become an elite PF in this league. No, he doesn't. Charles Barkley did just fine without giving a damn about defense. But Barkley was a great rebounder. If Amare can become one as well, his poor defense (and I don't think its really all _that_ bad) won't matter. I see him as a Barkley clone, he just needs to work on his rebounding.


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## Pan Mengtu (Jun 18, 2004)

But as far as coaching, yeah definitely need a change there. I'm not sure who's going to be open this offseason (probably a lot like always!), but you got to grab someone new.


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## Arclite (Nov 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Pan Mengtu</b>!
> I'm tired of people saying Amare _has_ to become a great defender to become an elite PF in this league. No, he doesn't. Charles Barkley did just fine without giving a damn about defense. But Barkley was a great rebounder. If Amare can become one as well, his poor defense (and I don't think its really all _that_ bad) won't matter. I see him as a Barkley clone, he just needs to work on his rebounding.


He doesn't have to be an elite defender, but if he isn't going to be, he better be one of the best rebounding and passing forwards ever to be mentioned in that same breath. Barkley was. Given his height/power/athleticism, I think Stoudemire could easily become a dominant defender while Barkley didn't really have that opportunity.

Obviously he was reading the board though, he has four blocks in the first five minutes of the Sonics game. Sheesh.


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## RP McMurphy (Jul 17, 2003)

Nice posts Arclite.



> Originally posted by <b>Arclite</b>!
> He doesn't have to be an elite defender, but if he isn't going to be, he better be one of the best rebounding and passing forwards ever to be mentioned in that same breath. Barkley was.


Exactly. Barkley regularly averaged 4-5 assists per game, and 11 or even 12+ rebounds per game, despite being only 6'5". 

I actually think defense from your star PF is not quite as important as it's made out to be. All you need is *one* guy in your frontcourt who can defend other teams' star big men. If it's your center, that's OK, it it's your PF, that's OK too. But if your primary scorer is a ball hog who can't pass the ball, you're hopeless.

By the way, the points that you're making here are pretty similar to the ones I made on the NBA board awhile ago. It's great that a former moderator of the Phoenix board is allowed to say it on his own board, but when I say it on the NBA board, my thread gets locked and an administrator sends me a PM telling me that "the constant baiting needs to stop." :dead:


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## Arclite (Nov 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>RP McMurphy</b>!
> 
> By the way, the points that you're making here are pretty similar to the ones I made on the NBA board awhile ago. It's great that a former moderator of the Phoenix board is allowed to say it on his own board, but when I say it on the NBA board, my thread gets locked and an administrator sends me a PM telling me that "the constant baiting needs to stop." :dead:


I remember the thread, it didn't get closed because of your points, it got closed because there were a bunch of nimrods ruining the thread.

But unlike you, I really don't believe this "has to be the year" for Amare. He has too many things to improve upon to just have them fall together in one season, and his work ethic is too good for him to just be written off if it doesn't happen this year. Still, if he can't make some strides in any of those areas, then I agree there is cause for concern..

But, my concern lies totally in the coaching staff. It is just preseason though, I'm not THAT worried - I just think there are some things to be looked at with this team in regards to coaching.


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

Amare was in shutdown mode tonight.

4 blocks in the first half. Referred to the team from that point on. The game was pretty much in the ice box after the first half.


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## azirishmusic (Feb 25, 2004)

Impressive game by Vroman - 6 rebounds in 17 minutes.


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