# Should the Wolves waive Spree?



## Locke (Jun 16, 2003)

He seems to have been nothing but a non-productive headache all season long and wasn't traded at the deadline. Do you think they'd be better off getting rid of him in hopes of improving the overall team chemistry or has he just been a convenient scapegoat for the Wolves' problems this season? Sprewell's in the last year of his conract so it's not like they'd have to keep paying him.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

I'd do it, but I doubt Taylor would do it. It just goes back to my question. Why would any NBA team sign him to a contract, knowing what we know about the guy next year? You'd have to have brain lock.


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

I still don't think they'll do it.
Minnesoda still has a legitimate chance in making the playoffs, and if they are going to have any chance in going far, they are going to need Spree. 
Hopefully he can realize that the team needs him, so he can stop being such a jerk.


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## Locke (Jun 16, 2003)

HKF said:


> I'd do it, but I doubt Taylor would do it. It just goes back to my question. Why would any NBA team sign him to a contract, knowing what we know about the guy next year? You'd have to have brain lock.


I bet some team would get desperate and sign him for the rest of the season, but due to the way he's conducted himself this year his chances of getting another lucrative long-term deal are most likely shot to hell.


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## socco (Jul 14, 2002)

No, putting Cassell on the IL for the rest of the year and trying to sign Paytonw ould be a good idea though. Cassell is a much bigger problem than Spree.


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## Flawda Gatorz (Feb 27, 2005)

They're both problems. I'd get rid of both.

And for some reason, I seriously doubt signing Payton at this point in the season will have that much of an impact.


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## underhill_101 (Feb 22, 2005)

i think they should waive spree... he has been a problem all year and hasnt been producing at all. they would be a better team with out him


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## jokeaward (May 22, 2003)

Ship be sinking. Don't give him a lifeboat.


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## Pan Mengtu (Jun 18, 2004)

McHale is too lazy to do _anything_ but fire very good coaches.


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## -James- (Apr 27, 2004)

Pan Mengtu said:


> McHale is too lazy to do _anything_ but fire very good coaches.


 :yes:


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## SoCalfan21 (Jul 19, 2004)

they wont do it their team is doing bad with him...just imagine without..


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## socco (Jul 14, 2002)

SoCalfan21 said:


> they wont do it their team is doing bad with him...just imagine without..


Yeah, we'd be better, addition by subtraction, that's the point.


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## djtoneblaze (Nov 22, 2004)

Sprewell's really been a scapegoat; this problem surfaced because McHale is an inadequate GM and Flip Saunders was an overrated coach. Sprewell and Cassell GOT this team to the WCF last year and should have been rewarded in the summer. The Timberwolves management (definitely not one of the best in the league) let the contract situation linger, so this is their fault.


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## djtoneblaze (Nov 22, 2004)

Pan Mengtu said:


> McHale is too lazy to do _anything_ but fire very good coaches.


What very good coach did McHale fire?


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## socco (Jul 14, 2002)

djtoneblaze said:


> What very good coach did McHale fire?


Flip Saunders is oen of the best coaches in the league, he's more than just a "very good" coach.



djtoneblaze said:


> Sprewell's really been a scapegoat; this problem surfaced because McHale is an inadequate GM and Flip Saunders was an overrated coach. Sprewell and Cassell GOT this team to the WCF last year and should have been rewarded in the summer. The Timberwolves management (definitely not one of the best in the league) let the contract situation linger, so this is their fault.


Are you kidding me? These guys are 90 years old. Sam simply cannot play the game of basketball anymore, he's horrible, and Spree will be lucky to find a team to take him next year. I thank the Lord every day that we didn't give extensions to these bums. Right now there's about a 25% chance Garnett gets a title sometime in his career. If we would've gave these guys extensions there would be about a 3% chance he gets a title. The contract situation has affected their play, but the fact is that Sam is injury prone and is a very bad basketball player, and Spree is a cancer and is lazy, and they're both ancient. I'll take Fred Hoiberg and Anthony Carter or Trenton Hassell and Troy Hudson over them any day.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

Turkish Delight said:


> I still don't think they'll do it.
> Minnesoda still has a legitimate chance in making the playoffs, and if they are going to have any chance in going far, they are going to need Spree.
> Hopefully he can realize that the team needs him, so he can stop being such a jerk.


Basically that's it.


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## djtoneblaze (Nov 22, 2004)

q said:


> Flip Saunders is oen of the best coaches in the league, he's more than just a "very good" coach.
> 
> 
> Are you kidding me? These guys are 90 years old. Sam simply cannot play the game of basketball anymore, he's horrible, and Spree will be lucky to find a team to take him next year. I thank the Lord every day that we didn't give extensions to these bums. Right now there's about a 25% chance Garnett gets a title sometime in his career. If we would've gave these guys extensions there would be about a 3% chance he gets a title. The contract situation has affected their play, but the fact is that Sam is injury prone and is a very bad basketball player, and Spree is a cancer and is lazy, and they're both ancient. I'll take Fred Hoiberg and Anthony Carter or Trenton Hassell and Troy Hudson over them any day.


It took Flip Saunders 90 years to get a team with arguably the best player in the league out of the first round of the playoffs. If Flip was such a good coach, HE WOULD HAVE A JOB RIGHT NOW.

And if Cassell and Spree would have gotten extensions in the summer, then this team would be competing for the #1 spot in the league, there's no denying that. And if they weren't going to pay, they should have traded them during the offseason. You cannot get around the fact that Timberwolves management should have solved this during the offseason instead of allowing it to linger into the season.


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## socco (Jul 14, 2002)

Flip has had this team OVERACHEIVING every single year he's been the coach until this year. He told McHale either Sam and Spree are gone or he is gone, because he can't deal with those two.

And yes there is denying your claim the Wolves would be challenging for the #1 spot if they gave those guys extensions. There's plenty of denying because it's wrong. Sam can't play basketball anymore, he's the 3rd best PG on our team. When he comes in the game our offense slows to a grueling pace. And all he does is shoot the ball, problem is he can't shoot worth crap. And don't even get me started on his defense. Spree has been playing better lately, hasn't really done a whole lot to improve this team. Spree is nowhere near as good as he was last year either, though he does have a little left in the tank.
The Wolves offered Sprewell a contract that is probably 5 times as much as what he'll get this offseason, and he said it was insulting. The guy's ancient and not good and $7Mil a year is insulting? Pathetic. And Cassell isn't even in the last year of his deal. What, does Wally want an extension too? You just don't go throwing around as much money as it takes to sign to old guys who've been trouble their entire careers just because they had one good season.


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## djtoneblaze (Nov 22, 2004)

Well, if they weren't going to pay them they should have traded them. Whatever they were going to do, they should have done it in the offseason and not let it linger.

Flip Saunders NEVER overachieved. He's had Garnett all these years, but it took Sam and Spree to get them out of the first round. And it's not like he never had talent; he's had Hudson, Billups, Marbury, Wally, etc. There's always been enough talent to get out of the first round. The only reason he stayed around is because he's good friends with McHale; no other team would have kept him this long. He made the Timberwolves a perenial loser.

LOL @ overachieving.


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## socco (Jul 14, 2002)

They offered Spree a contract, and they were gonna address both players contract situations after the season. We always planned on keeping both of them, we're not gonna pay $10Mil a year for Spree though, that's just stupid.

Flip Saunders overacheived every frickin year, you have no clue what you're talking about man. This franchise has been pure crap ever since it's existance. There has NEVER been enough talent to get out of the first round until last year. The Wolves were and are a perenial loser because of Kevin McHale and management, Flip was never given a chance to succeed. Dude, don't even try to get started with me actually having YOU tell ME that Flip NEVER overacheived. Simply put, you're gonna lose, you don't know nearly enough about this team.

Hudson is not good. Billups was here for like a year and then we let him leave, same situation with Bobby Jackson. Marbury wasn't here for long, and was here when he was young. A team of Marbury and Garnett would have at least one title right now and probably more if Marbury wasn't such a d*ck. You're not gonna get anywhere with Wally Szczerbiak, sorry. There has rarely been enough talent to even make it to the playoffs. Two years ago when we finished 4th in the West we weren't even supposed to make the playoffs.

Seriously man, the Timberwolves haven't won jack **** ever, and probably never will. That has nothing to do with Flip Saunders. You're absolutely insane if you think HE made this team a loser. I'd like to hear other Wolves fans rip the hell out of you for how stupid you sound, it would be hilarious.


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## djtoneblaze (Nov 22, 2004)

When you have a guy that is one of the top five players in the league, Garnett, you should be able to get out of the first round. The supporting cast has always been decent to good.

A team of Marbury/Garnett would not have a title right now if Saunders had been coaching them. That's just three losers put together.

The Wolves were put over the top last year by Cassell and Sprewell. Garnett had a fantastic year, but he always does. Saunders has been an underachiever all his career, if you can call him that because he's not even a good coach in the first place.

Those idiots in management should have addressed the Sprewell situation before it got this big, simple as that.


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## KokoTheMonkey (Aug 4, 2003)

As for waiving Sprewell, it really doesn't make sense. Sprewell isn't killing the team that bad to just flat-out get rid of the guy. Plus, you're paying his salary either way the rest of the season, so just keep him. If the sink ships, let Sprewell sink with it. He deserves it.


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## M.D.E (Feb 26, 2005)

Have a good second half KG


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## c_dog (Sep 15, 2002)

djtoneblaze said:


> When you have a guy that is one of the top five players in the league, Garnett, you should be able to get out of the first round. The supporting cast has always been decent to good.
> 
> A team of Marbury/Garnett would not have a title right now if Saunders had been coaching them. That's just three losers put together.
> 
> ...


Just started watching basketball son?

Saunders is a very good coach, there's no doubt about that. And you can hardly blame him for the Wolves' inability to advance past the first round. It's not like Garnett was this good during all seven years, remember he was rather raw coming out of high school. The competition in the west was also extremely strong, and the wolves team simply didn't have enough talent. In fact I always thought they were lucky just for making the playoffs with the guys that they had. You're right about one thing though, the management does suck. They are the most responsible for the state of the wolves, not flip. They were unable to surround Garnett with the right talent, and when they did have talent they were unable to hold on to them(a la Billups).

BTW, you seem to have a very high opinion of the old Spreewell and Cassell. They are probably the LEAST athletic starting 1 and 2 that i have seen and don't do anything all that well to make up for their lack of athletism. Cassell is useless when his shots aren't falling and Spreewell has been an inefficient "scorer" who can't even score all that well. They played better last year, but can you honestly say you believe they deserve 10mil per year? No way. You're also assuming that if they had worked out their contract that they'd be playing better ball, but that's just speculation. One can just as easily speculate that if they sign their contracts they'd just be getting ready for retirement and pull a Mark Blount/Austin Croshere and sit on their lazy ***. You'd think that if they want that big contract they'd go out and earn it, and prove that they deserve big money.

Bottom line is Spreewell and Cassell suck this year, and they'd be lucky if they still have jobs for lottery teams like Atlanta next year.


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## kg_mvp03-04 (Jul 24, 2003)

The T'wolves need to get rid of Troy Hudson to me he is a major problem he takes so many stupid shots and holds the ball too long. The Wolves have played great last year without him and i truly believe they will play better this year without him. Hudson is getting too much credit for his 2-3 good games against the Lakers in the playoffs, but he fell off dramatically after that series, actually he fell off even during that series. 

Spree and Cassell do not deserve what they were asking especailly at this age. Mchale is a retard but not that retarded to give them so much money for players that will be so old when there contracts are over that the Wolves will probably lose KG because the will leave due to there lack of cap space to sign and improve there team. The Joe Smith incident to me was the main reason why the wolves did not get out of the 1st round for so long. The Wolves never got a chance to improve themselves with the draft, hypothetically they could have had Gilbert Arenas, Zach Randolph, Carlos Boozer, Rashard Lewis and other players that would have helped them so much


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## djtoneblaze (Nov 22, 2004)

I'm not saying they deserve $10 mill or $10, I'm saying this whole situation should have been settled before. So you're telling me that if Spree had gotten a contract they'd still have these problems? Or if they'd traded Spree at the beginning they'd still have these problems?

LOL @ Flip Saunders. Flip Saunders is soft, the players know that, and he's a very overrated coach who only kept his job so long because he is close with management. IF HE WAS SO GOOD HE WOULD NOT HAVE GOTTEN FIRED. How many times can I repeat this? You're not going to see Jerry Sloan getting fired over this. There are about fifteen coaches who would have this Timberwolves team near the top of the standings, and that would have gotten them out of the playoffs years before. Larry Brown, Phil Jackson, Jerry Sloan, Hubie Brown, Mike Fratello, Jeff Van Gundy, Rick Carlisle, Rudy T., the list goes on, would not be struggling this hard with this team.


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## c_dog (Sep 15, 2002)

djtoneblaze said:


> I'm not saying they deserve $10 mill or $10, I'm saying this whole situation should have been settled before. So you're telling me that if Spree had gotten a contract they'd still have these problems? Or if they'd traded Spree at the beginning they'd still have these problems?
> 
> LOL @ Flip Saunders. Flip Saunders is soft, the players know that, and he's a very overrated coach who only kept his job so long because he is close with management. *IF HE WAS SO GOOD HE WOULD NOT HAVE GOTTEN FIRED.* How many times can I repeat this? You're not going to see Jerry Sloan getting fired over this. There are about fifteen coaches who would have this Timberwolves team near the top of the standings, and that would have gotten them out of the playoffs years before. Larry Brown, Phil Jackson, Jerry Sloan, Hubie Brown, Mike Fratello, Jeff Van Gundy, Rick Carlisle, Rudy T., the list goes on, would not be struggling this hard with this team.


i think you meant if McHale weren't so dumb Flip wouldn't not have gotten fired. Everybody except McHale and apparently, you, failed to realise that Flip was not the problem and that the problem was the players. Spree should have been moved long ago.

And once again, you're speculating with the whole "if we had given Spree a contract blah blah blah". It's all speculation so you can zip it. Fact is they weren't able to negotitate a contract because Spree needed to feed his kids. And everybody thought of trading Spree, but you know how McHale is, he never makes a move.

I actually think the Wolves biggest problem is McHale. Was he the one who cost the Wolves all these draft picks? If he was, imo he should have gotten fired just for the Smith incident. He must also be extremely lazy as he never makes any trades. Guy is probably too lazy to check his messages or come up with trade scenarios on his own. Why does this guy still have his job?


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## The_Franchise (Mar 30, 2003)

djtoneblaze said:


> IF HE WAS SO GOOD HE WOULD NOT HAVE GOTTEN FIRED. How many times can I repeat this? You're not going to see Jerry Sloan getting fired over this.


This was simply a case of McHale thinking that the players no longer responded to Saunders, and that he wasn't doing enough to motivate the Wolves to play good basketball. When a team expected to make the WC finals goes into freefall mode, it happens. Jerry Sloan, Phil Jackson, Pat Riley... if any of these guys were coaching the Wolves and they played defense like the Wolves did this season then McHale would have probably fired them.

Saunders is easily a top 10 coach in the league.


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## Kunlun (Jun 22, 2003)

Latrell really isn't doing that bad this season. His stats are almost the same as last seasons, except he's playing around 6 less minutes.


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## MiamiWade (Jan 23, 2005)

I am just happy that spree did not land up in Miami. 
I think both cassel and spree are no longer a fit for the twolves.


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## jokeaward (May 22, 2003)

Kunlun said:


> Latrell really isn't doing that bad this season. His stats are almost the same as last seasons, except he's playing around 6 less minutes.


A 3.8 PPG drop out of 16 PPG is pretty decent. He got worse after the break last year and has gotten worse still.

The problem is really the defense, they're giving up 6.4 more PPG, a better opp. FGP, and a better opp. 3PP. 3PP falls on the guards and small forwards.

Flip was a good coach... they took Seattle to 5 in 96-97, that's pretty good for early in the "New Era." There were Garnett and Marbury, but it would've been nice if Gugliotta (from Marshall) wouldn't have been the only usable veteran out of EVERY Top 10 Minnesota draft pick from the dark age before 1995 (Richardson, Spencer, Longley, Laettner, Rider, Marshall).

But if you want to complain about making the playoffs...


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## djtoneblaze (Nov 22, 2004)

What has Flip Saunders done to warrant being a top ten coach? Seriously. He's only made it out of the first round of the playoffs ONCE, and this has been with one of the top five players in the league, KG. (And don't give me that he was young crap, because KG's been one of the league's best players pretty much since his third year). There are DEFINITELY ten coaches out there better than Flip...

Larry Brown, Jerry Sloan, Paul Silas, Nate McMillian, Doc Rivers, Jeff/Stan Van Gundy, Don Nelson, Scott Skiles, Jim O'Brien, Byron Scott, George Karl, and Greg Popovich are all superior coaches to this guy.

There are assistants -- such as Avery Johnson and Michael Cooper -- that I would take before this clown. 

You won't ever hear any NBA personalities talking about Flip like he's a Hall of Famer or something like you guys speak about him.

At least we do agree on one thing, that being that Kevin McHale should not be the GM of this team.


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## c_dog (Sep 15, 2002)

djtoneblaze said:


> What has Flip Saunders done to warrant being a top ten coach? Seriously. He's only made it out of the first round of the playoffs ONCE, and this has been with one of the top five players in the league, KG. (And don't give me that he was young crap, because KG's been one of the league's best players pretty much since his third year). There are DEFINITELY ten coaches out there better than Flip...
> 
> Larry Brown, Jerry Sloan, *Paul Silas*, Nate McMillian, Doc Rivers, Jeff/Stan Van Gundy, Don Nelson, *Scott Skiles, Jim O'Brien, Byron Scott, George Karl,* and Greg Popovich are all superior coaches to this guy.
> 
> ...


Look at the names i just bolded. you said if flip saunders were such a good coach he wouldn't have been fired, but these are some of the coaches that have been fired from my memory. Also don't forget Indiana's coach, Rick Carlise. Good coaches get fired thanks to bad management all the time.

beside from being fired, those coaches are hardly better than flip. Avery Johnson and Michael Cooper? Are you serious... Flip has just as good, if not better, track record than any good coach in the NBA.


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## djtoneblaze (Nov 22, 2004)

c_dog said:


> Look at the names i just bolded. you said if flip saunders were such a good coach he wouldn't have been fired, but these are some of the coaches that have been fired from my memory. Also don't forget Indiana's coach, Rick Carlise. Good coaches get fired thanks to bad management all the time.
> 
> beside from being fired, those coaches are hardly better than flip. Avery Johnson and Michael Cooper? Are you serious... Flip has just as good, if not better, track record than any good coach in the NBA.


Flip Saunders isn't bad because he got fired. HE'S BEEN A BAD COACH HIS WHOLE CAREER. 

Flip is not a better coach than Avery Johnson or Michael Cooper. Flip Saunders could not coach a WNBA team to a title right now.

LOL @ saying Rick Carlisle, then following it up with "Good coaches get fired thanks to bad management all the time." Detroit might have the best GM in the league in Joe Dumars.


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## c_dog (Sep 15, 2002)

djtoneblaze said:


> Flip Saunders isn't bad because he got fired. HE'S BEEN A BAD COACH HIS WHOLE CAREER.
> 
> Flip is not a better coach than Avery Johnson or Michael Cooper. Flip Saunders could not coach a WNBA team to a title right now.
> 
> LOL @ saying Rick Carlisle, then following it up with "Good coaches get fired thanks to bad management all the time." Detroit might have the best GM in the league in Joe Dumars.


If Flip is so bad how come the Wolves bad it to the playoffs all these years? If he was indeed that bad, it doesn't matter if the Wolves have KG they'd still be the worst team in the league. And you said it numerous time yourself "if he were a good coach he wouldn't have gotten fired". apparently a lot of good coaches get fired.

And what's Avery Johnson or Michale Cooper ever done? please tell.

And as for "good coaches get fired thanks to bad management" i was obviously directing it to *Paul Silas*. Rick Carlise is only one of the many coaches i listed, although i'd really hardly agree that Scott Skiles, Jim O'Brien, Byron Scott, George Karl are better coaches than him. You'd have trouble convincing some people that Scott Skiles, Jim O'Brien, Byron Scott, George Karl are good coaches, period, nevermind being better than flip. Scott Skiles is doing a good job now, so i'll give you that, but yes, Jim O'Brien, Byron Scott, George Karl are so good that they've coached some of the worst/underachieving teams in the league. I mean, the sixers, hornets, and doing much better than the wolves, right? Let's not forget Karl and the whole Dream team fiasco, or bucks disappointing season after making it to the ECF.


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## The_Franchise (Mar 30, 2003)

djtoneblaze said:


> What has Flip Saunders done to warrant being a top ten coach? Seriously. He's only made it out of the first round of the playoffs ONCE, and this has been with one of the top five players in the league, KG. (And don't give me that he was young crap, because KG's been one of the league's best players pretty much since his third year). There are DEFINITELY ten coaches out there better than Flip...
> 
> Larry Brown, Jerry Sloan, Paul Silas, Nate McMillian, Doc Rivers, Jeff/Stan Van Gundy, Don Nelson, Scott Skiles, Jim O'Brien, Byron Scott, George Karl, and Greg Popovich are all superior coaches to this guy.


Jim O'Brien? I hope you're joking.

Brown, Sloan, JVG, SVG and Popovich are better, perhaps you could make a case for Karl. That Joe Smith fiasco ended up catching up with the Wolves this year, not enough athleticism in that lineup and too many gripy old vets. Can't blame Saunders too much for the Wolves' performance this year.



> There are assistants -- such as Avery Johnson and *Michael Cooper* -- that I would take before this clown.


Well you pretty much threw away what credibility you had left. Cooper proved he was incapable of teaching any level of defense at the NBA level; and had Denver playing appalling basketball in the short time he coached there.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

Coaches are often used as the scapegoat, simply because you can't fire players and replace them like you can with coaches. McHale wanted to see first hand what needed to be done with the team, which is why he is coaching now. He no longer has to go through a coach to find out whats going on, he is witnessing it. Flip Saunders is a pretty good coach and will land another job probably as soon as the next promising opportunity arises.


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