# Toronto: Pick Seven: Charlie Villanueva



## speedythief

All related threads will be merged with this one.


----------



## speedythief

*Re: Toronto: Pick Seven: ____________*

The Raptors will pick in roughly 20-25 minutes.


----------



## speedythief

*Re: Toronto: Pick Seven: ____________*

Toronto is on the clock, *****es!


----------



## -James-

*Re: Toronto: Pick Seven: ____________*

my god! pdx picks webster. if babs takes green and bynum falls to 16 i will cry in joy. if he picks frye i will boycott basketball.


----------



## vi3t_boi11

*Re: Toronto: Pick Seven: ____________*

Portland picks Webster with the 6th pick with Green still on teh board


----------



## Ps!ence_Fiction

*Re: Toronto: Pick Seven: ____________*

Holy ****, Green slipped. Babs, don't pull another Hoffa.


----------



## Chris Bosh #4

*Re: Toronto: Pick Seven: ____________*

And he drafts Villanueva... Then Graham... Then Ukic...


----------



## dtron

*Re: Toronto: Pick Seven: ____________*

thats weird, i would of expected them to pick joey graham at 7 and villanueva at 16, if anything

i dunno what to think of babcocks choices


----------



## ATCQ

*Re: Toronto: Pick Seven: ____________*

kill me right now


----------



## ATLien

*Re: Toronto: Pick Seven: ____________*

ROY contender


----------



## Lope31

*Re: Toronto: Pick Seven: ____________*

I'm guessing BBB died for everybody else as well.

Either way now it's back up and I am astounded ast how stupid Rob Babcock is. Fire him, immediatley. Villanueva will be a good pro but why not take Green? Like what the ****? He lucked out with Graham falling to 16. I like that pick but still. Two chances at Green and he didn't take him. Is there something we don't know or did Babcock confirm himself an idiot.


----------



## raptorsrule15

*Charlie Villanueva, WTF???*

Discuss, I'm totally shocked, can someone explain this?


----------



## Chris Bosh #4

*Re: Toronto: Pick Seven: ____________*



Lope31 said:


> I'm guessing BBB died for everybody else as well.
> 
> Either way now it's back up and I am astounded ast how stupid Rob Babcock is. Fire him, immediatley. Villanueva will be a good pro but why not take Green? Like what the ****? He lucked out with Graham falling to 16. I like that pick but still. Two chances at Green and he didn't take him. Is there something we don't know or did Babcock confirm himself an idiot.


He also lucked out with Roko Leni Ukic.


----------



## Lope31

*Re: Toronto: Pick Seven: ____________*

For real, I didn't even know we got Ukic. I turned the TV off after TSN started to talk about the Maple Leafs.


----------



## ATCQ

*Re: Charlie Villanueva, WTF???*

how do you spell babcock?

M-O-R-O-N


----------



## ATLien

*Re: Charlie Villanueva, WTF???*

I told you so. Well not the pick itself, but about Babcock..


----------



## ATCQ

*Re: Charlie Villanueva, WTF???*

please tell me this is all a horrible nightmare...


----------



## ballafromthenorth

*Re: Charlie Villanueva, WTF???*

I couldn't believe it.. I still can't really.. true the raps redeemed themselves with the two following picks, but Charlie V at 7 will baffle me for years to come..


----------



## Lope31

*Re: Charlie Villanueva, WTF???*



atcq1989 said:


> how do you spell babcock?
> 
> M-O-R-O-N


Yea, I've also seen it spelled another way, I think something like

I-D-I-O-T

Both work.


----------



## PurpleNation

*Re: Toronto: Pick Seven: ____________*

The only reason why I see this pick went down because it was NO choice as part of the trade for Magloire which can't be made until the end of July. If that is the truth then we did faily well in the draft, otherwise Babcock ****ed up again which wouldn't surprise me at all. Only time will tell.

Peace.


----------



## foul_balls

*Re: Charlie Villanueva, WTF???*

I think Babcock is a lucky ---- since he was able to get two steals at 16 and 41. Graham at 16 and Ukic at 41 are great picks....Villaneuva at 7 alone is just friggin dumb....

I wonder if it is a way to admit that Araujo was a mistake, since the starting frontcourt might be 2 PF, like Detroit,.... instead of Araujo and Bosh.... If he drafts Frye, then it becomes obvious that he admits Araujo was a stupid move.... This way it is a subtle way of getting around that.


----------



## JS03

*Re: Charlie Villanueva, WTF???*

Babcock is a big "joke"....


----------



## JL2002

*Re: Charlie Villanueva, WTF???*

like he could've just picked Frye and trade him to NY for Charlie V and cash....at least we get cash out of it....if its like 7th Joey Graham, 16th Charlie V, i wouldn't be as pissed.....but this is WOW...babcock is dumb...


----------



## adhir1

*Re: Toronto: Pick Seven: ____________*

hmmmm....i still dont no what to make of this draft.....i mean..clearly babcock and many other GM's saw something that thety dint like in Green and Granger...as well as Wright...so im not gonna be mad...but honestly...who else would we have drafted??? there isnt a player i really wanted (i dint really want Charlie V either) from when we picked Charlie and Joey...so i said it once and imma say it again...im lost..i wanna see what babcock has to say about it...


----------



## vi3t_boi11

*Re: Charlie Villanueva, WTF???*

when David Stern announced Charlie Villanueva, it was like the Araujo pick all over again


----------



## NeoSamurai

*Re: Charlie Villanueva, WTF???*

very shocking, but maybe villanueva will be our 3, bosh stays at 4 and hoffa at the 5....thats a big frontcourt....

thats the best case scenario, maybe he gets more aggressive....hes only 20....(hey, just trying to stay positive in this bleek moment....hopefully charlie v makes all our groans into cheers come next season)...


----------



## JS03

*Re: Toronto: Pick Seven: ____________*



Lope31 said:


> For real, I didn't even know we got Ukic. I turned the TV off after TSN started to talk about the Maple Leafs.


haha same...


----------



## ansoncarter

*thread NOT about Charlie's cool eyebrows!*

here are some great quotes I found that don't seem to be abou this eyes....

from Doctor White 
"I always thought Charlie's eyes were destined for great things, but I never knew it would be 'this' big

from Frank O. (the eye-surgeon)
"I though Charlie had pretty cool eyes, but then he actually looked at me and I nearly died"

from Charlies Mom
"my boy looks at me and I have to run"


----------



## ballocks

*Re: Toronto: Pick Seven: ____________*



let's hope he develops.

peace


----------



## JL2002

*Re: thread NOT about Charlie's cool eyebrows!*

reminds me of DragonBall, Goku SuperSayien 3 (without the hair)....


----------



## ATCQ

*Re: thread NOT about Charlie's cool eyebrows!*

does he even have eyebrows?


----------



## RickyBlaze

*Re: thread NOT about Charlie's cool eyebrows!*

maybe with a pro contract soon under his belt, Charlie can buy those eyebrow transplants he so deperately needs.


----------



## JS03

*Re: thread NOT about Charlie's cool eyebrows!*

















hmmmmm...


----------



## superdude211

*Charlie Villanueva Ugliest Player Picked?*

Looking at Charlie Villanueva he looks like the ugliest player picked in this years draft. Also ugliest player in Raptors history?


----------



## historyofthegame

*Re: thread NOT about Charlie's cool eyebrows!*

















Well atleast Shrek has eyebrows.


----------



## Magus Relmyn

*Re: Charlie Villanueva Ugliest Player Picked?*

Um, yes. No question about it. 

He has no eyebrows.


----------



## kamego

*Re: Charlie Villanueva Ugliest Player Picked?*

If he isn't the ugliest, he is pretty close lol


----------



## Q8i

*Re: thread NOT about Charlie's cool eyebrows!*

Whats Ur Point? This Topic Needs To Be Deleted - Waste Of Time.


----------



## wind161

*Re: thread NOT about Charlie's cool eyebrows!*

lol.. this is a great thread


----------



## trick

*Re: thread NOT about Charlie's cool eyebrows!*

he has a condition that makes him hairless. 

everyone who's making fun, post your pics and let's mock and judge how you guys look?


----------



## Markffd

*Hilarious*

Its really funny that you guys are making fun of Charile v's eyebrows. Little do all of you know he suffers from Alopecia Areata, a hairloss disease. You guys really think it is that funny?? Will see how you would like with the same disease. Whats the next topic, making fun of how magic had HIV??


----------



## trick

*Re: Hilarious*



Markffd said:


> Its really funny that you guys are making fun of Charile v's eyebrows. Little do all of you know he suffers from Alopecia Areata, a hairloss disease. You guys really think it is that funny?? Will see how you would like with the same disease. Whats the next topic, making fun of how magic had HIV??


seriously.

i want those same mockers to post their pics and have themself being picked out if they like to judge so quickly.


----------



## charlz

*Re: Charlie Villanueva Ugliest Player Picked?*



superdude211 said:


> Looking at Charlie Villanueva he looks like the ugliest player picked in this years draft. Also ugliest player in Raptors history?


this thread is bull **** you guys need to cut crap like that out - the guy is here and he is happy to be a rap so **** off about his God Given looks.


----------



## AReallyCoolGuy

*Re: Hilarious*

Maybe I have that too, I'm going bald at a really early age.

But maybe I just have really messed up horomones


----------



## JS03

*Re: Charlie Villanueva Ugliest Player Picked?*

yeah you guys... This is abit too much.... gotta stop this now..


----------



## spuriousjones

*Re: Charlie Villanueva Ugliest Player Picked?*

jones and joseph were uglier


----------



## NeoSamurai

*Re: Hilarious*

here here...

the guy hasnt played a single game for the team and already youre hounding on the guy...


----------



## Yao Mania

*Re: thread NOT about Charlie's cool eyebrows!*

LOL I love the Raptors board....


----------



## ansoncarter

*Re: thread NOT about Charlie's cool eyebrows!*



trick said:


> he has a condition that makes him hairless.
> 
> everyone who's making fun, post your pics and let's mock and judge how you guys look?


guy I wasn't mocking him. 

I tried to make a post about his skills. 

(but I looked at him straight-on and got disconbobulated)


----------



## McFurious

*Re: thread NOT about Charlie's cool eyebrows!*

Last time I checked we drafted players based if they can play not what they looked like... Dumb-asses.

The guy has a disease... leave it at that!!!


----------



## charlz

*Good Draft for Babcock/20yr. old Villanueva will impress*

For once I will say there is hope for Babs.
==================================
<b>Joey G</b> - studd, fierce competitor holds team mates accountable, a big part of making the Vince trade worth while

<b>Villanueva</b> - best rebounder in Draft best low post scoring Big man in Draft <b>Excellent skilled big man for Bosh to spar with</b> Still Very young could be <b>Rasheed Walace</b> type in 3-4 years if motivated.

<b>Roko</b> - every mock draft has him no later than mid 20's - this is a guy who would <b>slash his wrists</b> if there was a world wide ban on hoops... could look back in a couple of years and mention him in the same vain as Manu and biggest all time 2nd round steals ever.


=====<b>There is only on thing I keep hearing Villanueva at 7 why?</b>
<b>answer</b> - after the first 6 picks there was bound to be Granger/Green/McCants/Warrik or Jack available still by 16 - but Villanueva Frye (Who they did not want) and Vasquez were certain to be gone then.


...whatever <b>Sam Mitchell could not stop smiling on Rap TV</b> - he was elated and ready to practice. Raps seem to be stockpiling young bigs should be interesting to see what shakes down July 1.


----------



## McFurious

*Re: Good Draft for Babcock/20yr. old Villanueva will impress*



charlz said:


> For once I will say there is hope for Babs.
> ==================================
> <b>Joey G</b> - studd, fierce competitor holds team mates accountable, a big part of making the Vince trade worth while
> 
> <b>Villanueva</b> - best rebounder in Draft best low post scoring Big man in Draft <b>Excellent skilled big man for Bosh to spar with</b> Still Very young could be <b>Rasheed Walace</b> type in 3-4 years if motivated.
> 
> <b>Roko</b> - every mock draft has him no later than mid 20's - this is a guy who would <b>slash his wrists</b> if there was a world wide ban on hoops... could look back in a couple of years and mention him in the same vain as Manu and biggest all time 2nd round steals ever.
> 
> 
> =====<b>There is only on thing I keep hearing Villanueva at 7 why?</b>
> <b>answer</b> - after the first 6 picks there was bound to be Granger/Green/McCants/Warrik or Jack available still by 16 - but Villanueva Frye (Who they did not want) and Vasquez were certain to be gone then.
> 
> 
> ...whatever Sam Mitchelle could not stop smiling on Rap TV - he was ecctatic and ready to practice. Raps seem to be stockpiling young bigs should be interesting to see what shakes down July 1.



I agree very nice draft Babs....
Im looking forward to the Summer league already then we will see what Charile can do and hopfully he can educate some people.


----------



## charlz

*Re: thread NOT about Charlie's cool eyebrows!*



ansoncarter said:


> from Charlies Mom
> "my boy looks at me and I have to run"


these threads are classless - rip a stupid decision or a blunder ... but why rip a guy on something he has no control over?...


----------



## charlz

*Re: Hilarious*



NeoSamurai said:


> here here...
> 
> the guy hasnt played a single game for the team and already youre hounding on the guy...


honestly it is a low for the raptor board


----------



## Yao Mania

*Re: thread NOT about Charlie's cool eyebrows!*



charlz said:


> these threads are classless - rip a stupid decision or a blunder ... but why rip a guy on something he has no control over?...


This coming from a guy who idolizes Charles Barkley?!?!

"Hey look! It's Gollum from Lord of the Rings!"


----------



## NeoSamurai

*Re: Good Draft for Babcock/20yr. old Villanueva will impress*

agreed with everything u said...

Charlie V's talent has never been an issue, only his motivation and work ethic. Under a coach like Sam Mitchell, he will be pushed to his limits and if he can reach the ceiling of his talent, he can easily be a 20/10 player to compliment Bosh...

I've been saying it before in this forum and I'll say it again. If Chalie can be a 3 for this team, and we place Graham at the 2, a couple of years from now, ideally we can be looking at a lineup of:

C: Sow/ Hoffa/ future pick, FA
PF: Bosh
SF: Charlie V
SG: Graham
PG: Ukic

thats a tall and athletic team that can do some damage in the East...of course, a lot of balls have to roll our way, but the potential for this team is very optimistic in my mind...


----------



## ospoke

*Re: thread NOT about Charlie's cool eyebrows!*

:rotf:


----------



## spuriousjones

*Re: Good Draft for Babcock/20yr. old Villanueva will impress*

people were pretty high on charlie in here a while ago. then he just sort of drifted out of consciousness. i never seriously thought of him for us, let alone at 7, until i saw him jump up to 5 on nbadraft's mock just before the draft and their final mock.


----------



## Magus Relmyn

*Re: Good Draft for Babcock/20yr. old Villanueva will impress*

If Sam can light a fire under CV3's ***, I think we hit a goldmine with Chuckie at #7. He could surprise us (myself included), but that's only if Mitchell can. 

I love the Graham and Ukic picks, but I know squat about our pick at 58.


----------



## charlz

*Re: Good Draft for Babcock/20yr. old Villanueva will impress*



NeoSamurai said:


> PF: Bosh
> SF: Charlie V
> SG: Graham
> PG: Ukic
> 
> thats a tall and athletic team that can do some damage in the East...of course, a lot of balls have to roll our way, but the potential for this team is very optimistic in my mind...


It may not be optimistic - these guys all have 3 things in common
1. very talented
2. have strong desire (except CV but that may be because he is young)
3. very young (average age of 20).


----------



## Unknownone

*Re: Good Draft for Babcock/20yr. old Villanueva will impress*

Charlz -

Good analysis...

I get the feelin' that the same sort of people who would've been praisin' the selection of Stromile Swift @ 2 some years back are the ones lambastin' Villaneuva @ 7... Just a thought...


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: Good Draft for Babcock/20yr. old Villanueva will impress*

villanueva at 7 looked moronic at the time of the pick, but after the selections from 8-15 it seems like the right pick at the time. All the players that people are crying about were still there at 16. Andrew Bynum might be the exception here as he was picked between 8-15, but I think it's fair to say that he is riskier than villanueva as nobody knows what to expect with Bynum. The raptors needed a big man, wing, and guard, and they got a decent player at each position. Had they selected a wing player (green, granger, or wright) at 7, there will not likely be a player like villanueva at 16 and the raptors will end up going 2/3 (or worst, ukic at 41 was a steal) on their need list. I think the raps wanted webster or felton with their 7th, but when both got drafted they had to draft strategically and that was what they came up with.

Very good draft in my opinion. Only thing that worries me is that if green and granger become far better players than graham. Green, granger, graham were the 3 wing players and babcock went with graham. I Hope he is right.


----------



## ospoke

*Re: Good Draft for Babcock/20yr. old Villanueva will impress*

I'm not saying this to make Babcock's decision seem more intelligent than it is - But of those three, I've like Joey the best from day ONE. He is the best PLAYER right now out of the other 2.... Time will tell who the best PROSPECT was I suppose


----------



## charlz

*Re: Good Draft for Babcock/20yr. old Villanueva will impress*



seifer0406 said:


> Very good draft in my opinion. Only thing that worries me is that if green and granger become far better players than graham. Green, granger, graham were the 3 wing players and babcock went with graham. I Hope he is right.


Granger was a smoke screen for about 6 GM's who really never, it seems, wanted to take a chance on his knee.

But the Raps now have some very mobile talented big men if they want to get out and play a Phoenix suns brand of basketball Sow, Bosh, CV can all flat out run, leap and finish.


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: Good Draft for Babcock/20yr. old Villanueva will impress*

I don't think babcock had any interest in frye and bynum anyway (both players from 8-15). The raptors haven't given up on Araujo yet. Until they do that I don't think they will make a move for a center. Therefore I doubt they will do the magloire trade with NO. The starting lineup for next year will probably be

Araujo
Bosh
Graham
Rose
Alston

Raptors should really get some outside shooters. I don't see any legitimate outside threat other than mopete (who is inconsistent) and murray (if he plays or stay on the team).


----------



## StilltheChamp

*Re: Good Draft for Babcock/20yr. old Villanueva will impress*

To tell everyone the truth I thought the Raptors had a good draft and I think Babcock did alright this time around. If you had re arranged the picks Graham at 7, Charlie at 16 and Roko at 41 I would be pretty happy. Every mock I've seen had the Raptors looking at a swingman at 7 and getting Graham was a steal. It just seemed odd at the time because CV was the last player we thought we would draft. 

Everyone is making this such a huge deal because we didnt draft Green and Granger at 7 but in reality maybe those 2 guys while talented might not have been the players we thought they really are. What I'm trying to say is while Green and Granger are both near the top of our lists and every other websites, in reality they might have been ranked far higher than they really were. I mean both Green and Granger dropped to near the twenties. I think theres a reason for that. 

People are forgetting that we actually got a good player. Charlie aint no scrub were talking about here, this kid produced and did well in College and hes got talent and I got no doubt hes going to be our second best big man you can quote me on that. This guy reminds me a lot of Rasheed Wallace. People just calm down and look over the draft I think we did pretty good. 

PG: Roko Ukic
SF: Joey Graham
PF: Charlie Villueneva 

We got some talent and we addressed needs at Point, Wing and Inside.


----------



## ballocks

*Re: Hilarious*



Markffd said:


> Its really funny that you guys are making fun of Charile v's eyebrows. Little do all of you know he suffers from Alopecia Areata, a hairloss disease. You guys really think it is that funny?? Will see how you would like with the same disease. Whats the next topic, making fun of how magic had HIV??


i think you should probably stop looking to vent your personal frustrations on internet message boards. i don't think you really care about charlie v, nor his eyebrows, do you? in my opinion, you're probably just looking for an excuse to vent in general- i'm not down with that.

common sense would suggest that the people who made fun of villaneuva's physical appearance were unaware of his genetic complications- but you already know that (imo). so just relax; convey the truth _respectfully_ and move on.

peace


----------



## wind161

*Re: Hilarious*



Markffd said:


> Its really funny that you guys are making fun of Charile v's eyebrows. Little do all of you know he suffers from Alopecia Areata, a hairloss disease. You guys really think it is that funny?? Will see how you would like with the same disease. Whats the next topic, making fun of how magic had HIV??


 Insensitive? Yes. 

Inappropriate? Not really.

I admit I had a good laugh when I saw the comparison to Shrek... but I wasn't laughing AT the fact that he has no eyebrows (and I think there are others who feels the same way).


----------



## Markffd

*Re: Hilarious*

Ballocks, I'm going to the bahamas in a few weeks, i got into commerce at uoft, nothing in my life coudl possibly going better. The raptors in my opinion had an above average draft. I get peeved when people laugh at others misfortunes. If you laughed at someguy who has no hair because he has cancer would that be cool? I care not for what your "down with" but i think there should be some kind of respect for people in general, making fun of a physical features is something i am not down with. I feel i also did it in a respectful manner, not calling people out or cursing...


----------



## ghoti

*Re: Good Draft for Babcock/20yr. old Villanueva will impress*

I thought the Raptors had the best draft of any team.

Villanueva was the only PF in this draft who has both the skills and the size to compete in the NBA. Everyone else at that position had deficiencies.

Graham was the best defensive wing in the draft. Another steal.

Ukic was the best selection in the entire draft, and an out-and-out robbery at 41.

Greg Anthony made a fool of himself tonight. I hope Babcock never lets him or ESPN forget it.

(BTW, I'm a Nets fan, and I LOVE Babcock!!!!!!)

Your team got a LOT better tonight.


----------



## trick

*Re: Good Draft for Babcock/20yr. old Villanueva will impress*

we got a point, an athletic wing, and some depth.

isn't that what the team needs are?


----------



## Knowyourstuff

*Re: Good Draft for Babcock/20yr. old Villanueva will impress*



ghoti said:


> I thought the Raptors had the best draft of any team.
> 
> Villanueva was the only PF in this draft who has both the skills and the size to compete in the NBA. Everyone else at that position had deficiencies.
> 
> Graham was the best defensive wing in the draft. Another steal.
> 
> Ukic was the best selection in the entire draft, and an out-and-out robbery at 41.
> 
> Greg Anthony made a fool of himself tonight. I hope Babcock never lets him or ESPN forget it.
> 
> (BTW, I'm a Nets fan, and I LOVE Babcock!!!!!!)
> 
> Your team got a LOT better tonight.


i think you're refering to steven a. smith.


and he did..i ****ing hate that guy..hes so annoying


----------



## Turkish Delight

*Re: Charlie Villanueva, WTF???*

I was totally shocked with this pick, but it seems as though Babcock redeemed himself with his next two picks.
Only time will tell...


----------



## ghoti

*Re: Good Draft for Babcock/20yr. old Villanueva will impress*



Knowyourstuff said:


> i think you're refering to steven a. smith.
> 
> 
> and he did..i ****ing hate that guy..hes so annoying


NO! I expect Screaming A. to be an idiot.

Did you watch the draft? Greg Anthony was a complete jerk. He might as well have burned Babcock in effegy. He was out of line.

He was also 100 percent wrong!!


----------



## underhill_101

*Re: Charlie Villanueva, WTF???*



NeoSamurai said:


> very shocking, but maybe villanueva will be our 3


in the scouting reports on CV it says that he can run the floor with guards so its a possibility


----------



## ballocks

*Re: Hilarious*



Markffd said:


> Ballocks, I'm going to the bahamas in a few weeks, i got into commerce at uoft, nothing in my life coudl possibly going better. The raptors in my opinion had an above average draft. I get peeved when people laugh at others misfortunes. If you laughed at someguy who has no hair because he has cancer would that be cool? I care not for what your "down with" but i think there should be some kind of respect for people in general, making fun of a physical features is something i am not down with. I feel i also did it in a respectful manner, not calling people out or cursing...


i think i agree in principle but not in act. i think anyone who laughs at CV's appearance is not laughing at his disease, they're likely laughing the way they'd laugh at somebody's acne... or bad hair cut... or loud voice, etc. in other words, i think people aren't being purposely insensitive- i think we all draw the line at certain diseases and the like. 

the bigger point is that we should all probably draw the line even earlier than that, i know, but then we almost wouldn't allow ourselves to laugh at all- because when you think about it, all our humour is rooted in insensitivity, all our humour is rooted in some complex... none of it is "appropriate". but we don't like thinking about that so we draw the line at some diseases- but i don't think anyone else was aware of charlie's disease before you brought it up yourself, and that's what bothered me. i don't think anyone else was being insensitive on purpose, but i think you already knew that.

regardless, congrats on getting into uot. i think your life begins now (in the best of ways). 

peace


----------



## Markffd

*Re: Hilarious*

thx, i understand what you saying.... nuff said


----------



## FanOfAll8472

*Re: Good Draft for Babcock/20yr. old Villanueva will impress*



charlz said:


> <b>Villanueva</b> - best rebounder in Draft best low post scoring Big man in Draft <b>Excellent skilled big man for Bosh to spar with</b> Still Very young could be <b>Rasheed Walace</b> type in 3-4 years if motivated.


Best rebounder? Are you kidding me? Sean May was the best rebounder, hands down (no pun intended, since Sean May has one damn good pair of mitts). The best low post scoring big man in the draft? Are kidding me part II? I like his jump hook and his length/athletic ability impress me when he goes up for a quick shot, but the best low post scoring big man probably would be Ike Diogu, Andrew Bogut, or Sean May. The potential of Villaneuva and Bosh on the offensive end (high and low post either way or Villaneuva around the basket) is tantalizing, but I really question the defensive side of the ball. The first part of the sentence gets me salivating (not really), but the second part makes me really concerned. I really like Villaneuva, but I don't know if this will work out or not.

Past Villaneuva, excellent draft.


----------



## Greg Ostertag!

*Re: Charlie Villanueva, WTF???*

My immediate thoughts were, this is Babcock in denial of the Araujo pick. i.e, he doesn't want to pick a center because that will confirm that it was a wasted pick last year.

If Araujo, or someone else can start, would it be feasible to see Araujo/Bosh/Graham in the frontcourt with Villenueva coming off the bench as a combo forward? I don't think he'd work with CB, playing the 3 spot.


----------



## FanOfAll8472

*Re: Charlie Villanueva, WTF???*



vi3t_boi11 said:


> when David Stern announced Charlie Villanueva, it was like the Araujo pick all over again


I was shocked, but I didn't have nearly the same negative reactoin. Villanueva has more than just size and length going for him; he has skills, but he lacks the effort.



> in the scouting reports on CV it says that he can run the floor with guards so its a possibility


There's a difference between running the floor and defending a drive. I don't know if Villanueva has the quickness to guard 3s, but it's a possibility.


----------



## Chris Bosh #4

*Re: Good Draft for Babcock/20yr. old Villanueva will impress*

Man I really hope CV3 can be develope right and be a Rasheed Wallace/Odom type of player. At first I hated this pick, but not I'm loving it. He can play either c/pf/sf and that if was we need. A versitile mofo... Villy will be a back up, but I expect him to get minutes. I expect him to get split minutes from the c, pf, and sf position.

Starting line up

Araujo
Bosh
Graham
Rose
Alston

Back up
VC3/Sow
VC3/Bonner
VC3/Bonner
Peterson/Lamond Murray
Roko Leni Ukic/Milt Palacio

I added Milt, and Lamond because no one really knows what's going on with them. I say we got a solid front court in the future :biggrin: Thank you Babcock for the *solid* draft. I don't care who we passed up on, just as long as we got something, because we aren't going to be the only team wishing we picked that person, because there are going to be 29 other teams to take the blame. Charlotte had just as many opportunity's to take Green, but they didn't. So who cares, who got who we got, and I'm happy just for that.


----------



## KeonBackinTO

*For yall suckers, Villueneva is the man*

How is Charlie V a bad pick.

Babcock said he loved him a day before the draft, so he knew what he was doing when he drafted him.

I thought the Raps should of got Green but Im happy they got CV cause hes my favourite player and he and Bosh will run the Raps in 3 years.

Can anyone say that CV willl be bad in his career, the answer is no, he may not be star but worst will be ok, and he has so much potential he could be top 15 player in this league. He has all the skills.

Try and deveop skill with mind
try and get mind out of skill


----------



## KeonBackinTO

*Re: Good Draft for Babcock/20yr. old Villanueva will impress*



FanOfAll8472 said:


> Best rebounder? Are you kidding me? Sean May was the best rebounder, hands down (no pun intended, since Sean May has one damn good pair of mitts). The best low post scoring big man in the draft? Are kidding me part II? I like his jump hook and his length/athletic ability impress me when he goes up for a quick shot, but the best low post scoring big man probably would be Ike Diogu, Andrew Bogut, or Sean May. The potential of Villaneuva and Bosh on the offensive end (high and low post either way or Villaneuva around the basket) is tantalizing, but I really question the defensive side of the ball. The first part of the sentence gets me salivating (not really), but the second part makes me really concerned. I really like Villaneuva, but I don't know if this will work out or not.
> 
> Past Villaneuva, excellent draft.



He aint no bad rebounder considering he wasnt the rebounder on his team, he only did when he had to. He wasn't the hardest work and he admits that. But he did rebound when he had to and Babcock must of seen something in the fact that he is taller then Sean Many most likely to be a way better rebounder and no chance to be better than V.


----------



## KeonBackinTO

*Re: Good Draft for Babcock/20yr. old Villanueva will impress*

sorry for stupid grammar me very drunk


----------



## Chris Bosh #4

*Re: For yall suckers, Villueneva is the man*



KeonBackinTO said:


> How is Charlie V a bad pick.
> 
> Babcock said he loved him a day before the draft, so he knew what he was doing when he drafted him.
> 
> I thought the Raps should of got Green but Im happy they got CV cause hes my favourite player and he and Bosh will run the Raps in 3 years.
> 
> Can anyone say that CV willl be bad in his career, the answer is no, he may not be star but worst will be ok, and he has so much potential he could be top 15 player in this league. He has all the skills.
> 
> Try and deveop skill with mind
> try and get mind out of skill


I love this pick as well... Nice to see someone here who appreciates him.


----------



## FanOfAll8472

*Re: Good Draft for Babcock/20yr. old Villanueva will impress*



KeonBackinTO said:


> He aint no bad rebounder considering he wasnt the rebounder on his team, he only did when he had to. He wasn't the hardest work and he admits that. But he did rebound when he had to and Babcock must of seen something in the fact that he is taller then Sean Many most likely to be a way better rebounder and no chance to be better than V.


Villanueva was the big man along with Boone. Of course he was asked to rebound as well. Don't tell me Jawad/Marvin Williams weren't asked to rebound just because they were on the floor at the same as May. Also, rebounding is not all about height. I will bet that May will average in his entire career, more rebounds per 48 minutes than Villanueva will. Why? First of all, May is hungry, something Villanueva isn't (just because he admits he hasn't worked the hardest doesn't mean he will work hard in the future). Second of all, May has the bigger body and is better at boxing out. And finally, May has those hands that grab everything in sight. I'm not saying Villanueva isn't a good rebounder, but he wasn't even a top 5 rebounder in this draft.


----------



## KeonBackinTO

*Re: For yall suckers, Villueneva is the man*



Chris Bosh #4 said:


> I love this pick as well... Nice to see someone here who appreciates him.


And he and Bosh can play a 4/5 split and be fine.

Also Charlie V can only make Bosh better and Bosh will certainly make CV better by showing him in every aspect making CV actually try.


----------



## FanOfAll8472

*Re: For yall suckers, Villueneva is the man*



KeonBackinTO said:


> And he and Bosh can play a 4/5 split and be fine.


I would love if this works out, but it won't always work defensively. I think the Raptors get versatility out of this lineup more than anything else. It doesn't matter if they are 3/4 or 4/5, they can cause headaches for other teams.


----------



## AussieWarriorFan!

*Re: For yall suckers, Villueneva is the man*

It's a little bit of a reach, but not enough for it to mean much, it's a very good pick IF YOU DIDN'T ALREADY HAVE A LIKELY ALL-STAR OF THE FUTURE AT THE 4 !

I've heard he can play the 3, if he can, then that makes it a better pick!


----------



## KeonBackinTO

*Re: For yall suckers, Villueneva is the man*

at worst case scenario CV is decent player.

But he had just as much if not more potential then Green as he is just as good and players a more important position. 

CV will always be a solid player in this league.


----------



## Lynx

*Re: Charlie Villanueva, WTF???*



vi3t_boi11 said:


> when David Stern announced Charlie Villanueva, it was like the Araujo pick all over again


Actually, it is Araugo pick all over again. 

Man, I feel for you guys.


----------



## ColinBeehler

*Re: Charlie Villanueva, WTF???*



NeoSamurai said:


> very shocking, but maybe villanueva will be our 3, bosh stays at 4 and hoffa at the 5....thats a big frontcourt....
> 
> thats the best case scenario, maybe he gets more aggressive....hes only 20....(hey, just trying to stay positive in this bleek moment....hopefully charlie v makes all our groans into cheers come next season)...


Thanks neo, I hope your right... I'v also heard from someone around here I don't remember who that maybe Charlie could turn into a centre. He is 6'11", he does have a frame that some wieght can be added to. Who knows... The thing that really baffles me is that we passed on Gerald Green, TWICE! I woulda eaten three pairs of shorts before the draft to get that guy at #7, let alone #16... Green MIGHT not turn out great his first year. But, we've all seen what pretty much athleticism alone did for some highschool players in their first years (The Smith's). Beyond that, Green will be really ready to play by the time our Raps team is ready to compete for a championship in my opinion. Then again, if we just picked the second coming for Ron Artest at #16, I won't feel so bad. Who knows... I geuss all we can do is.... Trust in Babcock for now.... We weren't at the workouts, we didn't see what the players can do... But if my prediction turns out to be right... I WILL BE PISSED!

-lata


----------



## speedythief

*Re: Charlie Villanueva, WTF???*

If you look at the guys taken right after Charlie (Frye, Ike, Bynum, Vasquez, Korolev, May, McCants) it's easy to see that he is at least a good pick. I'd have to seriously ponder trading him for any of those guys. Charlie might seem a little high at seven but not compared to who was taken after him. Not a "reach" because the mock drafts, once again, had no ****ing idea what they were talking about.

Charlie is an interesting prospect that I've been following for a little while. I hope he can play a bit of small forward.


----------



## Rhubarb

*Re: Charlie Villanueva, WTF???*



speedythief said:


> Charlie is an interesting prospect that I've been following for a little while. I hope he can play a bit of small forward.


Scouting reports seem to suggest he'd prove a great mismatch, but defensively he'd be a liability playing on opposing SF's.


----------



## speedythief

*Re: Charlie Villanueva, WTF???*



Rhubarb said:


> Scouting reports seem to suggest he'd prove a great mismatch, but defensively he'd be a liability playing on opposing SF's.


It depends. If we can start running more zones than maybe he won't be. He can block a shot, so can Chris, so can Pape. Running an athetic lineup like that in a 2-3 or 3-2 zone might work alright.

Let the other team worry about mismatches. A typical small forward will have more trouble guarding Charlie than Charlie will guarding them.


----------



## EBP2K2

*Re: Charlie Villanueva, WTF???*

It CAN turn out to be an athletic and huge lineup for us... if somehow they are able to play together, and CV prove everyone wrong and show he can run for 48 minutes and not take timeouts.

CV, CB, Sow, Arujo, Graham... can run and gun with the best IMO, with right PG at the helm.


----------



## GuelphRaptorsFan

Rob Babcock, you are the weakest link....GOODBYE!


----------



## -James-

*Re: Charlie Villanueva, WTF???*

i still dont like the pick. in such a deep draft, i'd rather have another guy who could be a starter, not a guy who plays the same position as the franchise. bynum, green, granger, petro, vasquez. i'd be straight with any of them. i'd hate to say it but the things you guys are saying now about charlie (who i was very hgh on actually... if he was picked in the late teens) sound very similar to the stuff you guys were saying about hoffa. i just pray that babs and all the charlie supporters are right this time. btw, babs made absolute steals with graham (my boy!) and roko. past 7 imho, we had an excellent draft.


----------



## vandyke

From an outsider looking in, I have to say this was a very good draft for Toronto, I happen to think that CV is going to be the surprise of this draft, he is athletic, a great rebounder, he can swing between the 3 and 4, as a Celts fan I was actually hoping that he would fall to us at 18. People were surprised at him being taken at 7 but you have to take size early in these drafts, and then getting Graham at 16 and Ukic at 41, that is a good draft in my eyes you get three great athletic players who will most likely be good players for a long time in this league, add that to Bosh and Toronto has the makings of a very good team before too long.


----------



## CrookedJ

*Re: Charlie Villanueva, WTF???*



ColinBeehler said:


> I'v also heard from someone around here I don't remember who that maybe Charlie could turn into a centre. He is 6'11", he does have a frame that some wieght can be added to.


If memory serves me correctly . . . It was Mad Viking and I discussing Charlie back in April or so, and I was thinking 3/4 and he said more likely to play the 5 spot. 

The more I think about the pick, the more I think of Charlie playing C. At 6'11" 240 he is alot more physically able to handle the 5 than Bosh is. He's a better back to basket player than Bosh is as well, posts up with turn around Jay and baby hook.

Charlie / Hoffa
Bosh / Sow / Bonner
Graham / E Williams / Bonner
Rose / Peterson / Lamond
Alston / Ukic

Can't wait to see if it works!


----------



## Rhubarb

*Re: Charlie Villanueva, WTF???*



speedythief said:


> It depends. If we can start running more zones than maybe he won't be. He can block a shot, so can Chris, so can Pape. Running an athetic lineup like that in a 2-3 or 3-2 zone might work alright.
> 
> Let the other team worry about mismatches. A typical small forward will have more trouble guarding Charlie than Charlie will guarding them.


Fair point, but I'm inclined to see Charlie in action first before making anymore remarks on how to play him out.

Either way, it should be interesting to see how he's played out. His talent suggests he could cause some interesting problems for opposing teams in numerous positions. Hopefully that turns out to be the case.


----------



## GuelphRaptorsFan

The higher up you go, the more heart and drive matters. All the current evidence suggests that this guy just doesn't care much whether he, or the team, succeeds or not. Also, if he gets discouraged easily how's he going to handle being an NBA rookie, on a mediocre-to-bad team, no less? Throw in poor lateral movement and bad one-on-one defense, and that adds up to why I highly dislike this pick. I'm hoping I'm wrong, mind you, and I like the other three picks (to varying degrees), but we could have had Diogu or Granger or Wright to go along with Graham and Ukic (if we ever see Slokar, I'll be mildly surprised). I understanding picking a big , and I understand picking a big at 7 the way things played out, but I don't understand picking Charlie V as your big. Like I say, I sure hope I'm wrong.


----------



## wind161

GuelphRaptorsFan said:


> The higher up you go, the more heart and drive matters. All the current evidence suggests that this guy just doesn't care much whether he, or the team, succeeds or not. Also, if he gets discouraged easily how's he going to handle being an NBA rookie, on a mediocre-to-bad team, no less? Throw in poor lateral movement and bad one-on-one defense, and that adds up to why I highly dislike this pick. I'm hoping I'm wrong, mind you, and I like the other three picks (to varying degrees), but we could have had Diogu or Granger or Wright to go along with Graham and Ukic (if we ever see Slokar, I'll be mildly surprised). I understanding picking a big , and I understand picking a big at 7 the way things played out, but I don't understand picking Charlie V as your big. Like I say, I sure hope I'm wrong.


 I have to agree with you. It's definitely heart and drive, and that is probably the biggest question mark about him right now. 

so yes... let's wait for the season... the amount of playing times he gets is probably a testimonial to how hard he tries during practice, etc....


----------



## alpngso

No matter what... CV at #7 is stupid...

He doesn't deserve the money he gets for being #7.

CV has to prove me wrong, I guess...


----------



## ktownbball

Making fun of this hair loss condition isn't cool. Im just happy he's Raptor. Althoguh personally I would have picked Frye for leverage with the Knicks or Gerald Green to let im develop I don't see this bad as a bad thing. there going to try him out at a few positions and if he can take some minutes from the Bosh man late in games were winning in his rookie year and scoop some boards I'll be happy. I still could see him being traded with Mo pete and a pick next year for Magloire.. then what would everyone have to say. I didn't like the Hoffa pick last year and I dont think he will be anything more than a back up centre HOWEVER Joey Graham maybe a faster not as good defender as Ron Artest and I hear our 41 pick is like Parker just not as consistent a shooter. That sounds good to me. I say your doing alright with that draft Babcock. Like to see the Magloire deal go through.


----------



## MangoMangoMango

since most of u agree CV is a pretty good pick...

anyone wanna start a Charlie Villanueva Fan club??


----------



## djmyte

Yea, it's completely like the Araujo pick...an athletic, very skilled, 20 year old with a lot of upside...totally the same...

I see the Raps trying to use a setup similar to what Detroit has...two pf's playing up front. Prototypical size is very overrated these days. If a guy can play, stick him out there.


----------



## Turkish Delight

I guess it's a decent pick. We'll just have to wait and see how it pans out. I know many people on this board wanted us to take Green at 7, or even 16, but Babcock and many other GMs looked past him because they don't have 3 or 4 years to wait and see if a High Schooler will pan out. 
Plus, the fact that Green didn't want to play against other prospects in his workouts worried GMs as well. 
Hopefully Charlie can play some 3, but right now Babcock is definately going to have to find a way to trim our roster.


----------



## JuniorNoboa

*Re: Charlie Villanueva, WTF???*



Lynx said:


> Actually, it is Araugo pick all over again.
> 
> Man, I feel for you guys.


Enjoy your HS (soon to be fat again) Stiff


----------



## kirk_2003

http://www.charlievillanueva.org <- his site... the intro was pretty tight... *sighs* trust me i was pissed yesterday... not the fact we picked charlie but the fact we picked him so high... but whatever thats passed me... im happy with the selections that the RAPS brass made... lets hope for a successful 05/06 season!!! GO RAPTORS!!!


----------



## ansoncarter

I just read some of the things I posted yesterday, on other boards too, and feel a little embarassed

forgot he had a disease. Sorry about that

Man, I really am an idiot online lol


----------



## Unknownone

kirk_2003 said:


> http://www.charlievillanueva.org <- his site... the intro was pretty tight... *sighs* trust me i was pissed yesterday... not the fact we picked charlie but the fact we picked him so high... but whatever thats passed me... im happy with the selections that the RAPS brass made... lets hope for a successful 05/06 season!!! GO RAPTORS!!!


What's w/ the drum & bass/jungle intro before the segueway into Kanye's 'Jesus Walks'? Reppin' Bristol, England instead of BK? J/K...



> Weaknesses: Needs to tone & develop muscular strength (upper body). Has been inconsistent at times, though lately has proven analyst wrong with some of his best game performances. Lacks the type of aggressiveness you would like to see out of a player with his talent. Need improvement on his lateral defensive skills.


From his website (above) - at least under 'Weaknesses,' it didn't read: NONE :biggrin:


----------



## Crossword

MangoMangoMango said:


> since most of u agree CV is a pretty good pick...
> 
> anyone wanna start a Charlie Villanueva Fan club??


 OOooh me! I'll do it.


----------



## bigbabyjesus

I was very, very mad when we selected Villanueva; probably the maddest Raptor fan alive. I wasn't mad because I hate Villanueva, but because I wanted Gerald Green VERY bad. I thought he would have been the perfect compliment to a player like Chris Bosh, and Green has unlimited potential. 

As time went on, much like the Hoffa pick I grew to accept this pick, and now I actually like it. But there is a difference between this pick and the Hoffa pick. This is a draft where it was impossible to predict where a player from 7-20 was going to go. A lot of sites and people thought Villanueva was headed to New York at 8, which I don't think much people would have called a reach. Hoffa was a reach, but Charlie was not. Charlie is certainly talented enough to warrant a top 10 pick, but Hoffa; I don't think is. 

I can now realize why Babcock took Villanueva over Green. It must be very hard to analyze a player in a workout when it is just him. When you look at it, you can't judge him properly on offense because there is no defense there to contest him, and on defense, there is no there for him to defend. We knew he could shoot and that he was athletic, but we didn't know what he could do against legit competition. Speedy made a great point saying take a look at the 5-6 players taken below Charlie and ask yourself if you would take them over him; probably not.


----------



## JS03

kirk_2003 said:


> http://www.charlievillanueva.org <- his site... the intro was pretty tight... *sighs* trust me i was pissed yesterday... not the fact we picked charlie but the fact we picked him so high... but whatever thats passed me... im happy with the selections that the RAPS brass made... lets hope for a successful 05/06 season!!! GO RAPTORS!!!


hahaha... sick site...

Do you believe?... no, not really... 
But I'll give him a chance...


----------



## FanOfAll8472

*Re: Charlie Villanueva, WTF???*



CrookedJ said:


> If memory serves me correctly . . . It was Mad Viking and I discussing Charlie back in April or so, and I was thinking 3/4 and he said more likely to play the 5 spot.
> 
> The more I think about the pick, the more I think of Charlie playing C. At 6'11" 240 he is alot more physically able to handle the 5 than Bosh is. He's a better back to basket player than Bosh is as well, posts up with turn around Jay and baby hook.
> 
> Charlie / Hoffa
> Bosh / Sow / Bonner
> Graham / E Williams / Bonner
> Rose / Peterson / Lamond
> Alston / Ukic
> 
> Can't wait to see if it works!


I honestly believe he can play anywhere from the 3 to the 5. I think it was speedy who said it best earlier, let the other team adapt to our matchups. But defensively, there are some 3s and some 5s Villanueva can guard, but others that we'll have to leave to Hoffa and Graham/Rose.


----------



## SkywalkerAC

I was OH SO shocked at first but as I went to bed and lay up thinking all night about Charlie and Joey I really started loving this draft for the Raps...and then I got to work and found out we stole UKIC! Babs is a star right now and with this kind of draft people might start realizing it before it's too late. All three of these guys have high potentials and are ready to come in now. But back to Charlie...

I thinking he'd be a great fit and was pegging him with our second pick only because mocks had him around there. In reality there's no way he would have lasted to 16- wouldn't have fallen past the Nets and likely would have gone beforehand.

Charlie's got a bit of everything. He's needs to get stronger but he's got a great frame. Very athletic and very skilled. Would go in the top 10 in almost any draft year IMO (as a 20 year old). He's a shotblocker which is nice. He's going to develop an NBA 3 pointer but can already punish teams that double off him to Bosh. He's got 3/4/5 capability.

This last point brings me to the most exciting thing about this draft and Charlie V- we now have one of the most versatile and talented frontcourts in the league. It's complete- it needs some seasoning but we have all the pieces together. 

Oh so many options...

Bosh/Charlie/Hoffa (yes I think Bosh is more a SF than CV at this point and Mitchell has him learning the position for a reason). Probably won't see this lineup often but it's not unreasonable.
Sow/Charlie/Bosh. This one I think we will see and it could be a wrecking ball of a mismatch for teams to cope with...especially when they run with Rafer and Graham. 
Jalen/Charlie/Hoffa. Gotta give Bosh some time to rest and I think Charlie is a great fit with both our vets and our young guys.

etc...i'll be back.


----------



## AirBonner

I wanted to :hurl: when i heard this pick. I was so mad that i ranted in front of a globe and mail reporter and actually got quoted in the paper saying that babcock had destroyed his career and will never work in the nba again :biggrin: 

I still think that they could have picked a better player than CV but I hope I'm wrong.

Now after hearing a number of other ppl's assesment of him I can't wait to see him play in the L and I'm definitely willing to give this guy a couple years to prove me wrong.


----------



## Ballyhoo

Man, this thread reminds me so much of last year's Araujo thread. CV is not like Araujo at all, but all the justifications for picking him are.

Last year almost everyone was initially upset, but then the eternal optimism of true fans took over and people started saying how they were growing to like the pick, and Araujo was NBA ready, and he would be one of the top C's in the East (this was pre-Shaq trade), and would help Bosh so much. That he would have been picked by other teams shortly after the Raptors picked him, it wasn't a big reach, and the only reason he wasn't rated highly on the draft sites was because of smoke screens, etc. And what do those sites know anyway, Babcock does this for a living and has scouted these players much more than any poster here. 

Guess what? The gut reaction of "bad pick!" was right for Araujo. I suspect it will be right for CV too.


----------



## Magus Relmyn

Chucky 'V' seems ecstatic to be a Raptor, and it appears he wants to "prove his doubters wrong". I hope so. If he can play the 3, we got ourself a solid player, reach or not.


----------



## RickyBlaze

A bigger (height anyways) Donyell Marshall with a handle. Good pick.

Is he even resembles Rasheed's game in a few years then you will all eat your words.

And the fact that he has no eye-brows, and looks like a giant Sam Cassell is cool too.

I can't wait to play NBA Live 06 with the new look Raptors!


----------



## foul_balls

*Re: Charlie Villanueva, WTF???*



speedythief said:


> If you look at the guys taken right after Charlie (Frye, Ike, Bynum, Vasquez, Korolev, May, McCants) it's easy to see that he is at least a good pick. I'd have to seriously ponder trading him for any of those guys. Charlie might seem a little high at seven but not compared to who was taken after him. Not a "reach" because the mock drafts, once again, had no ****ing idea what they were talking about.
> 
> Charlie is an interesting prospect that I've been following for a little while. I hope he can play a bit of small forward.


Right On, Speedy. 

I did some reading up on him - Coach Calhoun says that he is a great teammate, and did everything asked of him. Villanueva admits that he wasn't always the hardest worker but the fact he is aware of it, and the fact that he responds to demanding coaching is a good sign. The only worry he had was that CV was not yet strong enough for the pro game. It also said that he asked for Coach Calhoun's blessing to head to the NBA, so that he could make money for his mom, who was in a bad car accident. Charlie didn't want her working anymore. Sounds like a real character guy to me, not like the whiner we had last year....

Hopefully, Sam will have Charlie pushing his own limits.


----------



## madman

Ok honestly he is really starting to piss me off, not the fact that we drafted Charlie V, but where, if we wanted him so badly why not trade down for a later pick and maybe fill in another one of our needs and get another PG, cause clearly no one was planning on taking him.

--------------------------------------------------------------

I was planning on posting the above but actually talking about the pick it is not as bad, i still belive that he could have been had later but if he can play the C that would be great.


----------



## speedythief

madman said:


> Ok honestly he is really starting to piss me off, not the fact that we drafted Charlie V, but where, if we wanted him so badly why not trade down for a later pick and maybe fill in another one of our needs and get another PG, cause clearly no one was planning on taking him.
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> I was planning on posting the above but actually talking about the pick it is not as bad, i still belive that he could have been had later but if he can play the C that would be great.


Supposedly, like last season, teams were lining-up behind us to take him, so trading down wasn't possible. According to a source I can't remember, it's around here somewhere. Could just be Babcock covering his own ***.


----------



## arcade_rida

speedythief said:


> Supposedly, like last season, teams were lining-up behind us to take him, so trading down wasn't possible. According to a source I can't remember, it's around here somewhere. Could just be Babcock covering his own ***.


Charlies coach said... GSW, LAL and the Bobcats wanted Charlie


----------



## speedythief

arcade_rida said:


> Charlies coach said... GSW, LAL and the Bobcats wanted Charlie


Sorry, *****es!


----------



## Rhubarb

A small clip of Charlie V here.

Love the dance move at the end.


----------



## speedythief

Rhubarb said:


> A small clip of Charlie V here.
> 
> Love the dance move at the end.


That must be the "other" Charlie. The one who, had he hired an agent, would've been a first-round pick as a high schooler and wouldn't ever have gotten an attitude adjustment.


----------



## Rhubarb

speedythief said:


> That must be the "other" Charlie. The one who, had he hired an agent, would've been a first-round pick as a high schooler and wouldn't ever have gotten an attitude adjustment.


It's cocky, but no harm in highlighting his obvious athleticism.


----------



## AirBonner

I'm don't understand why ppl are so interested in him playing well at 3. I would much rather see him hold his own at 5. I know its a lot to ask of a guy with his build but i think that would be more important than having more 3s. 

Raptors have lots of guys to play 3 - Bonner, Rose, MoPete, Graham ... why is it important to have another?


----------



## DHarris34Phan

I think they look similar....


----------



## NeoSamurai

AirBonner said:


> I'm don't understand why ppl are so interested in him playing well at 3. I would much rather see him hold his own at 5. I know its a lot to ask of a guy with his build but i think that would be more important than having more 3s.
> 
> Raptors have lots of guys to play 3 - Bonner, Rose, MoPete, Graham ... why is it important to have another?


its not so much that we need him at the three, since u've already shown that we are stacked there...i think why ppl. wonder whether or not he can be a 3 in this league is that it enhances the intangibles that Charlie V can bring to a game and for the team...imagine if he can be a 3 on the floor: with his ability to run the floor, if we can find a 5 that can run too, our frontcourt would be huge with athleticism...find the right quarterback to run the show at point and you have a poor man's run n' gun team on your hands...

however, Charlie's more applicable to being a 4/5 for the team at the moment...


----------



## TRON

Charlie Villanueva @ 7.....what an absolute shocker

I was just about to totally write Babcock off as a complete idiot, then as the draft unfolded it occured to me that we as fans had no idea what the hell we were talking about, mainly because we get our info. from misguided internet mock drafts sites

I'm starting to think that the internet mocksites get intentionally misled by GM's who are making an art out of the "smokescreen"

It was amazing how the hype machine propelled the wings to way higher than they were picked, while the bigs went much earlier than everybody anticipated. It seemed like the highly touted wings were chosen only after teams got the their hands on the available bigs

I was really baffled by Villanueva, Diogu, Bynum, May and Vasquez being selected before any of the hyped wings, I guess GM's knew more than we as fans did. Because if Orlando, who really needed a young wing, passed on any one of Wright, Green, Graham...for Fran Vasquez then all bets are off

I don't know what to think, so for now I'm kinda neutral on this pick. What I am interested in seeing is how Villanueva turns out compared to bigs picked after him (Vasquez, Bynum, Diogu, May)


----------



## Unknownone

Article in today's Star from UConn basketball beat writer -

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Co...480&call_pageid=969907729483&col=970081562040

Admittedly apologetic in tone for Villaneuva's shortcomings, but goes a long way in describing his strengths and weaknesses - sounds like a harbinger of good things to come...


----------



## speedythief

Unknownone said:


> Article in today's Star from UConn basketball beat writer -
> 
> http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Co...480&call_pageid=969907729483&col=970081562040
> 
> Admittedly apologetic in tone for Villaneuva's shortcomings, but goes a long way in describing his strengths and weaknesses - sounds like a harbinger of good things to come...


I hope you don't mind, but this is worthy of it's own thread.


----------



## Unknownone

speedythief said:


> I hope you don't mind, but this is worthy of it's own thread.


ST - no worries - all good - as long as both for/against Villaneuva read it and are better informed, works for me...


----------



## osman

Its interesting to read some of the comments from draft day. The picks are looking great so far.


----------



## Unknownone

osman said:


> Its interesting to read some of the comments from draft day. The picks are looking great so far.


This is a not I told you so response, but wondering if some of the naysayers are man enough to own up to their distrust of the pick (and of Babcock) - I know it's still early w/ many more miles to log, but I suspect that Villaneuva's probably exceeded some of the very low expectations held by some out there...


----------



## speedythief

Gerald Green was relegated to the D-League, too.

By the way, isn't it nice to have players developing outside the NBA? Ukic, Slokar, Sow... we've actually got some assets these days.


----------



## martymar

I was one of the people that was kinda iffy with CV since I wanted them to pick up Frye and Warrick. I know CV has game but he tend to disappear but the way he played in pre-season convice me that's he was ready to play this year. so it's a very good pick and he and bosh has tonnes of potential and they play even better when Calderon is on the court


----------



## martymar

*Re: Toronto: Pick Seven: ____________*



dtron said:


> thats weird, i would of expected them to pick joey graham at 7 and villanueva at 16, if anything
> 
> i dunno what to think of babcocks choices


Very interesting cuz i was thinking the same thing at the time of the draft and plus some people were projecting Ukic to be drafted in the 11th on and raps got him at in the second round


----------



## Unknownone

speedythief said:


> Gerald Green was relegated to the D-League, too.
> 
> By the way, isn't it nice to have players developing outside the NBA? Ukic, Slokar, Sow... we've actually got some assets these days.


I recall an episode of Full Court Press where Smith actually offered an insightful contribution - it was in regards to Jerry West and how he collects _young_ talent, to both have on the team to play as well as collateral for movement vis-a-vis trades/etc. - and b/c of that, he's usually in a fairly advantageous bargaining position; Smith's articles during this winning streak have been less vitriolic and although it's highly doubtful that he'll vouch for Babcock's acumen, it wouldn't be too far of a stretch to describe Babcock's maneouvres as of the orientation/philosophy that Smith ascribed to West; you also can see the value that West places on character w/ his export of Jason Williams and Bonzi Wells in concert w/ importing Eddie Jones and Damon Stoudamire...


----------



## JS03

*Re: Charlie Villanueva, WTF???*



Juzt_SicK03 said:


> Babcock is a big "joke"....


lol...


----------



## The_Notic

*Re: Toronto: Pick Seven: ____________*



Lope31 said:


> I'm guessing BBB died for everybody else as well.
> 
> Either way now it's back up and I am astounded ast how stupid Rob Babcock is. Fire him, immediatley. Villanueva will be a good pro but why not take Green? Like what the ****? He lucked out with Graham falling to 16. I like that pick but still. Two chances at Green and he didn't take him. Is there something we don't know or did Babcock confirm himself an idiot.


LOL!


----------



## bigbabyjesus

vigilante said:


> I was very, very mad when we selected Villanueva; probably the maddest Raptor fan alive. I wasn't mad because I hate Villanueva, but because I wanted Gerald Green VERY bad. I thought he would have been the perfect compliment to a player like Chris Bosh, and Green has unlimited potential.
> 
> As time went on, much like the Hoffa pick I grew to accept this pick, and now I actually like it. But there is a difference between this pick and the Hoffa pick. This is a draft where it was impossible to predict where a player from 7-20 was going to go. A lot of sites and people thought Villanueva was headed to New York at 8, which I don't think much people would have called a reach. Hoffa was a reach, but Charlie was not. Charlie is certainly talented enough to warrant a top 10 pick, but Hoffa; I don't think is.
> 
> I can now realize why Babcock took Villanueva over Green. It must be very hard to analyze a player in a workout when it is just him. When you look at it, you can't judge him properly on offense because there is no defense there to contest him, and on defense, there is no there for him to defend. We knew he could shoot and that he was athletic, but we didn't know what he could do against legit competition. Speedy made a great point saying take a look at the 5-6 players taken below Charlie and ask yourself if you would take them over him; probably not.


I stand by that statement, you suckas.


----------



## The_Notic

Gerald Green's agent did a great job in creating some Pre-Draft buzz from the fans and the media.


However, His agents choice of not allow him to workout against any players did not fool the GM's of the league, especially the teams in the lottery who tend to do their homework a lot more than the GM's of the teams that made the playoffs, and it shows. Im not going to call Gerald Green a bust, but from his stats so far, (Not even being able to crack the rotation), Id say that hes not quite ready (understatement of the year).


----------



## AirJordan™

lol thats funny reading thru the first couple of pages of this thread.

Everyones like "Why Charlie?"......."Babcock is a M-O-R-O-N" and this and that.

Now, 33 games into the season, I bet everyone has changed their mind about that pick.


----------



## aizn

haha, this thread makes me laugh.

hindsight is great isn't it? lol


----------



## adhir1

*Re: Toronto: Pick Seven: ____________*



adhir1 said:


> hmmmm....i still dont no what to make of this draft.....i mean..clearly babcock and many other GM's saw something that thety dint like in Green and Granger...as well as Wright...so im not gonna be mad...but honestly...who else would we have drafted??? there isnt a player i really wanted (i dint really want Charlie V either) from when we picked Charlie and Joey...so i said it once and imma say it again...im lost..i wanna see what babcock has to say about it...


dude ur a genius, Green is in the Dleague, Wright hasnt lpayed a game yet, and you stayed neutrel, while everybody else is bashing....pure genius....rep rep rep and more rep


----------



## BBB

*Re: Toronto: Pick Seven: ____________*

Well, I'm glad I stayed out of it and remained neutral regarding the draft.


----------



## SkywalkerAC

SkywalkerAC said:


> I was OH SO shocked at first but as I went to bed and lay up thinking all night about Charlie and Joey I really started loving this draft for the Raps...and then I got to work and found out we stole UKIC! Babs is a star right now and with this kind of draft people might start realizing it before it's too late. All three of these guys have high potentials and are ready to come in now. But back to Charlie...
> 
> I thinking he'd be a great fit and was pegging him with our second pick only because mocks had him around there. In reality there's no way he would have lasted to 16- wouldn't have fallen past the Nets and likely would have gone beforehand.
> 
> Charlie's got a bit of everything. He's needs to get stronger but he's got a great frame. Very athletic and very skilled. Would go in the top 10 in almost any draft year IMO (as a 20 year old). He's a shotblocker which is nice. He's going to develop an NBA 3 pointer but can already punish teams that double off him to Bosh. He's got 3/4/5 capability.
> 
> This last point brings me to the most exciting thing about this draft and Charlie V- we now have one of the most versatile and talented frontcourts in the league. It's complete- it needs some seasoning but we have all the pieces together.


I rule

One thing about Green- apparently he's put on 18 pounds already; expect him to start showing off in the D-league.


----------

