# Colangelo looking at a restricted, athletic small forward...



## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

..but obviously he won't say who. Here are some names:

*Andres Nocioni* comes to mind, what with Luol Deng about to get a big pay day from Chicago. They already have to find money for Ben Gordon, not to mention what they are already spending on Ben Wallace and Kirk Hinrich. But I wouldn't describe Nocioni as athletic, so maybe he isn't the guy. Plus he is a lot like Garbo (though better in most respects); plays both forward positions, nice range on his jump shot, decent defender, good rebounder, but he has nasty streak. His dribble-drive and mid-range games lack consistency.

Another is Golden State's *Mickael Pietrus*. The Warriors have a bunch of money on the books right now for B-Diddy, Jason Richardson, Al Harrington, Crazy Jackson and Adonal Foyle, plus an extension for Andris Biedrins around the corner. Pietrus seems superfluous at the moment. Pietrus is a solid man-on defender, very long and athletic. He would be a nice target for fast-break passes from Ford and Calderon. He is a good rebounder from the three but he could still improve. His jumpshot was nicer this season but he still hasn't found a great rhythm.

If you've been watching the Nets-Cavs series, and why in the world would you, you might have seen the nice play of young wing *Aleksandar "Sasha" Pavlovic*. His defence has been better than expected, rattling Vince Carter's fragile cage more than once and getting a Tayshaun Prince-esque block on a lazy, important J-Kidd lay-up attempt. His shot is money and he has nice ball handling and passing skills. His length is an asset. He lacks toughness, defensive consistency, and doesn't rebound.

Can you guess which small forward averaged 18.6 points in the month of April? His name is *Travis Outlaw*, the ultra athletic high-schooler who has somehow already been in the league for four years. Portland is well over the cap with Randolph, LaFrentz, Miles and Pryzbilla gobbling-up about $40M between them. Outlaw only started one game this past season but had some memorable performances, including an 18 point/15 rebound outburst against Minnesota, a 16 point/6 rebound/6 block showing against the Hornets, and a 36 point/10 rebound explosion against the Jazz in his last game of the season, a contest in which he went 16/16 from the free throw line. Outlaw is one of the least talked-about free agents this summer. Outlaw is mostly athleticism right now but could play a role similar to Charlie Villanueva last season, only with more quickness and less smarts.

Other guys worth mentioning are journeymen and second-round guys who are looking to get paid like *Matt Barnes*, *James Singleton*, *Desmond Mason*, *Chuck Hayes*, and *Luke Walton*.


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

Pietrus, and Pavlovic are the only ones we can really afford but out of everyone on that list Mason would be the guy I'd want the most


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## NeoSamurai (Jan 16, 2003)

if its Outlaw, thatd be one heck of a frontcourt with Bosh and Bargnani as 7 footers already...


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

Mr_B said:


> Pietrus, and Pavlovic are the only ones we can really afford but out of everyone on that list Mason would be the guy I'd want the most


I think the idea with Nocioni or guys like that is to throw the whole MLE at them and wait and see if his team will match. Whether or not that is Bryan's strategy I dunno.


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

Nocioni out of our price range as well I expect him to get a big deal this offseason


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## narrator (Feb 11, 2006)

Said it before and I'll say it again: the Raptors should break the bank for Nocioni. He's PERFECT for this team.


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## Junkyard Dog13 (Aug 9, 2003)

what about adding playof f experience vets?

sign Pietrus/Barnes to replace Peterson
Dont re-sign Sow as we domnt need him as Garbo at times played C and Sow wasa project when selected and has developed into a medicore back up, Martin I expext himn to be coaching replace him with a guy that has ton of playoff experirnce, Stackhouse would be aight dont know what his price tag will be, Outlaw & Nocioni wil get big offers out of our price range as after Rashard if he hits the market they are perhaps the next bese SF's.

Kapano, Posey, Stack, Hill someone name some more well experienced playoff Free agents would lie to see 1 added.

then 1 from te Barnes, Pietrus, Outlaw, Lewis crop.


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## ballocks (May 15, 2003)

Junkyard Dog13 said:


> Kapano, Posey, Stack, Hill someone name some more well experienced playoff Free agents would lie to see 1 added.


hill didn't even cross my mind. but please no. i think the hill's, griffey's and lindros's have shown what they can do already.

honestly, i bet he's on the list. it makes too much sense. but i would be opposed.

peace


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## TRON (Feb 29, 2004)

I'm not really enamoured with any of the RFA small forwards, but if we were to get say Nocioni or Peitrus for the mid level then you can't really complain. Desmond Mason wouldn't be bad either.

I'm kinda hopping for more though, and that would most likely occur through a trade.


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## Timbaland (Nov 18, 2005)

I like Desmond Mason, but that dude needs to learn how to shoot. I do like Pietrus' skill set and his athleticism, and I like Pavlovic right after him. Two of them would be a great fit and in our price range I hope.


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## ColinBeehler (Oct 14, 2003)

I love that Colangelo is talking about going after an RFA... It's a scary thing to do really because your hands are tied for those 15 days, but if we could snatch Outlaw, Petrius or Pavlovic that would be awesome... I would be incredibly excited if the Raptor's could get ahold of Outlaw, he would complete our roster in my opinion.

Side note, how would doing a sign and trade for an RFA affect things? Could we offer more money then? Or, would it only be helpful in that the other team wouldn't match the offer?


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

speedythief said:


> I think the idea with Nocioni or guys like that is to throw the whole MLE at them and wait and see if his team will match. Whether or not that is Bryan's strategy I dunno.


It is still highly unlikely that we get him

1. Several teams will offer Nocioni the entire MLE.
2. The Bulls can still match.

Chance of getting him = 2.46%


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

narrator said:


> Said it before and I'll say it again: the Raptors should break the bank for Nocioni. He's PERFECT for this team.


How can we break the bank when we can only offer the MLE, which will certainly be offered by other teams. What pieces are there for the Bulls to like in a SNT if we want to go over?

But I like your enthusiasm, and chances of getting Nocioni have raised to 2.79%.


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## george (Aug 8, 2003)

I would like to get Marvin Williams from ATL. Doubt it happens, but they need a PG, what about Ford for Williams? We bring over Ukic to backup Calderon...won't happen but we can always dream..lol


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## dirtybird (Mar 16, 2007)

I like Nocioni too, but he still doesn't take care of the lack of athleticism/slashing ability of our SF position.


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## Ruff Draft (Nov 21, 2004)

Barnes, Mason, and Pietrus would be my picks for Toronto. Noc is wonderful, but I think the price tag will be a little big...


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## Dee-Zy (Jan 12, 2006)

george said:


> I would like to get Marvin Williams from ATL. Doubt it happens, but they need a PG, what about Ford for Williams? We bring over Ukic to backup Calderon...won't happen but we can always dream..lol




Make it Ford for Josh


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## ColinBeehler (Oct 14, 2003)

If the salary cap doesn't go up at all the Raptors would have $2797495, in cap space. Not very much, but say they wanted Travis Outlaw... A trade of Calderon for Outlaw (plus a pick??? im not really sure...), might be feasible, the Raptor's would then have $5269063 to throw at Outlaw. However, that's probably still not enough, so one other thing to consider, and it's really nothing to bet on yet. But, from the 2005/2006 season to the 2006/2007 season, the salary cap increased by 3.6 million dollars. Say it even increased 2 million. I think we would definately, be well on our way to reeling in Outlaw, or for that matter, the RFA of our choice.

I don't know how seriously you want to take this, because my logic could very well be flawed, but someone please tell me if it is.


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## Dee-Zy (Jan 12, 2006)

calderon + a pick for Outlaw???? Are you mad??? even calderon for Outlaw I would say no thanks.

who would be our back up PG? McNugget?


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## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

*ahem*


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

The best value is probably Outlaw. He would come the cheapest, and I could see him EXPLODING in our offense. If Pietrus or Outlaw come to Toronto, they will win most improved player.. boookkkk itttt


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## Zuca (Dec 4, 2003)

Again, I think that GS would rather resign Barnes than Pietrus...

So I guess that they'll take a sign'n trade with our team... Pietrus for Joey Graham... It's also good for them because they get an useful backup in Graham while also getting a trade exception...


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## ColinBeehler (Oct 14, 2003)

Dee-Zy said:


> calderon + a pick for Outlaw???? Are you mad??? even calderon for Outlaw I would say no thanks.
> 
> who would be our back up PG? McNugget?


Surprised you took it like that.. I said Calderon for Outlaw (plus a pick... I'm not really sure?) ... and I meant we get back a pick possibly... I don't know what their values are really, but I do think Calderon should be enough to get him.


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## Dee-Zy (Jan 12, 2006)

I guess I'm the only one who is not high on Outlaw AT ALL

especially for giving up Calderon.

Calderon should not be traded for anything less than a starter on a decent team.


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## narrator (Feb 11, 2006)

JuniorNoboa said:


> It is still highly unlikely that we get him
> 
> 1. Several teams will offer Nocioni the entire MLE.
> 2. The Bulls can still match.
> ...


The slimmest chance is still a chance. Breaking the bank = committing players and salary to get him. He's totally worth it.


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

Should I reserve my Josh Childress Raptor jersey now?


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

narrator said:


> The slimmest chance is still a chance. Breaking the bank = committing players and salary to get him. He's totally worth it.


Simply committing sluff players is not breaking the bank, because the Bulls don't want our sluff, and will not do a SNT.


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## andalusian (Jun 29, 2006)

ColinBeehler said:


> Surprised you took it like that.. I said Calderon for Outlaw (plus a pick... I'm not really sure?) ... and I meant we get back a pick possibly... I don't know what their values are really, but I do think Calderon should be enough to get him.


It is a possibility, I guess. Maybe Portland should also trade Randolph for Gasol and go win the world championship with them and Sergio. We might need Garbo as well to really do it. All indications are that KP plans to match whatever is offered to Outlaw unless someone is going to overpay Outlaw like crazy. Personally, I think that anything over 4mil/year is overpaying for Outlaw.


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## ColinBeehler (Oct 14, 2003)

andalusian said:


> It is a possibility, I guess. Maybe Portland should also trade Randolph for Gasol and go win the world championship with them and Sergio. We might need Garbo as well to really do it. All indications are that KP plans to match whatever is offered to Outlaw unless someone is going to overpay Outlaw like crazy. Personally, I think that anything over 4mil/year is overpaying for Outlaw.


... Don't really see what the nationality of the players in the deal has to do with anything. Anyway, if anything over 4 million is overpaying for Outlaw, then we wouldn't have to offer a trade of anything, full MLE would do the trick. I'd love to have Outlaw for 4 million at this point. That said, I'm no genius so maybe by December of this year, I will be saying it would have been better spent on a new jet for the team or something... He has shown flashes of brilliance, perhaps with our ball wiz point gaurd tandem, we could get some consistency out of him.

An open question, what kind of range does he have?

An open statement... Whoever we choose to go after this summer really isn't my main point, just that I have investigated it a little bit, did some math, and discovered we have quite a bit of flexibility to go after some solid RFA's with our teams salary situation.


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## Dee-Zy (Jan 12, 2006)

I checked his stats, he has a poor 3pt% and does not seem to rebound well.


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## Foulzilla (Jan 11, 2005)

ColinBeehler said:


> An open question, what kind of range does he have?


Just inside the 3 point line is his money spot honestly. I don't know why he struggles so much when taking a step or two back, I'm sure it's mostly mental. However, with his leaping ability he's able to get that shot pretty much at will. Unfotunately, despite his athleticism he's a pretty poor finisher around the rim in most situations. He jumps real high, but not very quickly.

I think Portland keeps him unless someone really overpays him myself. They like him and he has shown definite improvement.


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

His 3pt% means nothing right now. He only took 0.5 3fga per game. He went to the FT line about 3 times a game. Shown slow but steady improvement. Could still be a total bust and this next year is going to tell a lot about him. Same with Dorrel Wright who needs to step up and prove he is an nba starter or 6th man. And Gerald Green too, although he is the youngest of the bunch. You have to be patient when you take HS talent. That's why Babs was so scared to do it.

My big worry with Outlaw is the environment he has grown up in as a pro in POR. Lousy role models can form bad habits that will never be broken. And we have to sign him to a big deal before seeing what he really has.

On the plus side we could probably move him easily. Lots of suckers lined up for Darius Miles despite all the warning signs. POR just gave him a huge contract a year or two ago.


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## TRON (Feb 29, 2004)

I think Calderons value is higher than Outlaw(plus pick)...Starting material PG's are rare and much more valuable than a young promising wings

From what I've seen, Steve Blake and Chauncey Billips are the only Pg's of note on the free agent market. BC will no doubt charge a hefty price if another team wants Calderons services.

I remember Seatles interest in Calderon last year and I'd love to see Rashard Lewis in a Raps uni (don't know if it would work $$$), or some of thier set of young centers Petro, Swift or Sene


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## andalusian (Jun 29, 2006)

ColinBeehler said:


> ... Don't really see what the nationality of the players in the deal has to do with anything.


Poor attempt at humor given that Portland already has a spanish PG on the roster.



ColinBeehler said:


> Anyway, if anything over 4 million is overpaying for Outlaw, then we wouldn't have to offer a trade of anything, full MLE would do the trick.


Only if Portland does not match - but I suspect that they would.



ColinBeehler said:


> An open question, what kind of range does he have?


He can get his shot over anyone in the leauge and does rather well as long as he stays within the 2 point range. He can hit the 3 - but he is less consistent there. His biggest issue is that he is not a good one on one defender and he does not take it to the rim as much as he should. He had only 2 games last years where the light bulb went on and he attacked the rim without mercy. He was pretty much unstoppable then - and that's why I suspect that someone would have to pay a lot for Portland not to match.


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## L (Sep 20, 2005)

Either Nocioni or Pietrus would be great fits in Toronto.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

I think you've got to go after Pietrus first, if you're BC. I don't think he's available for the MLE but you've gotta find out. He brings defense and athleticism those should be priority number one and two for any swing player we spend significant money on. With AP, Joey, and Pietrus we'd have great wing defense every night, IMO. They're going to make you work.

Barnes fits too IMO. He's not quite the athlete I'm looking for but he does get up and use his length and defends and shoots well. Is he a starting small forward on a contender? Maybe not, but he should be within our price range (if golden state matches Pietrus anyway).


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

and Outlaw fits too of course. he'll be 23 next season but I think he'll be effective through his prime and effective in our system. he doesn't utilize his athleticism nearly as well as you'd like and he's not the beast that i want to put next to bosh and bargnani but he brings great length and an unblockable jumper to the court.

is BC going to land one of these three? he's certainly bound to try.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2873275

Does this make Pietrus REALLY available???


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## Pain5155 (May 28, 2006)

we should go after matt barnes to replace moe pete, and try to get pavlovic.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

I am not that interested in Outlaw. He seems to be another Darius Miles/Ndudi Ebi/Stro Swift. Really athletic players that lacks basketball skills aren't what we are lacking imo.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

I hear you about Outlaw. He definitely doesn't have the greatest basketball instincts and is therefor always going to be limited to a certain range of the game. Joey takes a lot of criticism for his decision making, lack of instinct, etc but I think Joey is the better player right now.

And Luke Jackson is probably better than them both.


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## Junkyard Dog13 (Aug 9, 2003)

If we are to compare Matt Barnes to Joey Graham both about the same size 6"7 225, ezxcept Barnes numbers much better b/c he avg's about 50% more PT say we give Joey 30 min regularly do you all think he can be the long term answer at SF, we know when he gets that kinda PT he can certinly avg 12 PPG 5-6 RPG, the only problem with Joey is his lack of first step, I think he needs to drop some wieght and work on his agility, a guy with his frame and athlethic skills should easily be able to slash to the basket but Joey is not consistent in doing that.

Pietruis & Barnes are both quicker guys that fit the run and gun offense if we are to sign eithier It would be stupidnot to trade Joey.

I like Joey but he duissipointed me in the playoffs.


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

*Mullin likes Pietrus' upside and is likely to extend a qualifying offer of $3.5 million, after which he can match any offer Pietrus receives from other teams. Barnes is an unrestricted free agent, so he's headed for the highest bidder*

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/chronicle/archive/2007/05/18/SPG11PTFMU1.DTL


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

Watching the GS series the announcers seemed convinced that Pietrus would not be back with the team. And given the role that Pietrus and Barnes played this year it seem obvious that for the same $$$ that GS would opt to keep Barnes. Both will be in that 4-5 mill MLE range and Pietrus was the 8th man in the playoffs while Barnes started.

Mullin will retain matching rights in hopes of doing a sign and trade for MP.

Barnes and Graham may be listed as similar measurements but their bodies are completely different. Barnes has more of a Tayshaun Prince build. Longer, thinner, slim shoulders. Joey is much stronger and wider - heavier set. I think Pietrus is the bigger upgrade and his body is a good mix of the two.


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

I wonder if Gerald Wallace is on BC's radar at all. We seem to have written him off thinking he is too expensive or that CHA is committed to keeping him. I have to question that.


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

Gerald Wallace would be the absolute perfect fit for us at small forward. I'm not sure if there's anyone in the league that would fit better. He gives us the defense, rebounding, athleticism that we sorely need at that position, and the versatility to move to the power forward spot. It maybe a pipe dream, but wow if BC could pull it off I don't see how we dont win the East with Ford, Wallace, Bosh, and Bargnani.

As for Outlaw, I like him, but give up Calderon for him? Are you kidding me? That would be an awful trade that BC wouldn't even think twice about. I would give Outlaw 3-4 million a year, isn't he a free agent? I don't think Portland would want to overpay with all the prospects they have on the wings


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## TRON (Feb 29, 2004)

This is where I hope BC gets creative and goes for a Gerald Wallace type SF, probably the most coveted SF on the free agent market, most likely through a sign and trade of some sort. 

If we were to trade Calderon, I'd want it to be for player of Wallaces calibre.


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## sammysamosa (Mar 10, 2003)

TJ ford is not being traded Deezy...Get over it...it WILL NOT HAPPEN.


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## shookem (Nov 1, 2005)

TRON said:


> If we were to trade Calderon, I'd want it to be for player of Wallaces calibre.


I agree. BC doesn't have too many cards in his hand and Jose is probably the best one. I would have no problem seeing Calderon play for another team as long as we get a player that could have an equal impact on the team.


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## Ras (Jul 25, 2005)

I'd be very hesitant to deal Calderon, but I do have a question; who would you all rather deal, Jose or TJ?


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

Well, it would really have to depend on the deal. You won't get identically trades with TJ and Calderon because of their huge salary difference (like 6 mil). It's hard to say who I would rather let go but if the deal is right both are trade-able in my opinion.

I don't see why we have to let either one of them go though. Ford is getting 8 million a year and I think Calderon will stay for 6-7 mil. It is a bit pricey for the point guard spot but it's not overly expensive if you compare with other teams starting/backup pg. Indiana is paying 11 mil for Tinsley and Daniels, Cleveland is paying 10 mil for Eric Snow and Damon Jones, Atlanta is paying 10 mil for Speedy and Lue, Chicago is paying 11 mil on Hinrich alone, Seattle pays 11 mil for Ridnour and Watson. None of these combos are better than Jose and TJ, and we will only pay 13-14 mil at the most for the 2 of them, it's fair imo.


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## TRON (Feb 29, 2004)

^ I love our PG situation, but we just might have to break up the tandem if we want to get better. Just like last year when we dealt Charlie for TJ, an unpopular trade at the time, but one that helped us get better.

P.S....I think you can officially take down Jizzy's sig. :biggrin:


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

It's a tough one for me.

I like both. Jose is the better point guard at the moment. but TJ has the potential to be lethal at the position, one of the best in the league. Jose really impressed me in the playoffs and Ford did the exact opposite.

At this very moment I think I'd trade Ford first, just because he could get us someone better.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

I'm leaving this sig on after VC's performance.


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## RapsFan (Feb 4, 2003)

Looking at the espn free agent list, dahntay jones and jarvis hayes might be other possibilities. Don't know much about Hayes' athleticism.


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## Dee-Zy (Jan 12, 2006)

hayes is known for his athleticism actually no? He was just very unlucky with all the injuries, he never really got a chance to go off, I remember he put up nice numbers this year when he was healthy (I don't know if he was healthy the whole year or not though).


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

Jones is a good defender but he doesn't have the offensive set to keep up, IMO. Kind of like a Quinton Ross-type player.

Hayes doesn't seem to have a lot of potential. From the times we played him, he seemed to like to jack shots.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

Hayes was athletic coming in but he's never displayed much in the NBA. I think he's got significant knee issue to go with his other injuries.


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