# Rate each position of the new lineup



## RadicalDreamers (Jul 14, 2004)

Now that the Rockets lineup looks just about set, we can start looking at each position and their strengths weaknesses. 

PG: B-
Bob Sura, Tyronn Lue, Charlie Ward, Reece Gaines, Mike Wilks
Woah, big jam here. Rocketes should really consider moving some of these guys. Sura is the probable starter, with Lue and Ward fighting for the backup position. Ward was a great sign, bringing the experience and true point guard instincts that the Rockets desperately need. Defensively, it's pretty decent. Offensively, Sura, Lue, and Ward are all playmakers who can hit the open shot, so that's a plus. Solid point guard rotation once JVG works out who plays. 

SG: A
Tracy McGrady, Adrian Griffin
Having T-Mac alone merits an A. Griffin is a JVG kind of guy, and will act as a SG/SF combo. My prediction for T-Mac is a 25/7/6 year. 

SF: C+
Jim Jackson, Bostjan Nachbar
Meh, two serviceable guys, but neither really gets my blood pumping. Jackson was the most reliable guy last year and played a lot of minutes, there's good reason to be skeptical whether or not he'll be able to repeat last year's performance. I really like Nachbar and believe he has good upside, but is he really ready to be playing 20 minutes a night backing up an old veteran? So much of the Rockets success this year is dependant on Jackson. Assuming the Piatkowski trade goes through, Jackson is the only remaining designated three point shooter left. That's a pretty big responsibility put upon a journeyman like him.

PF: B
Juwan Howard, Maurice Taylor, Clarence Weatherspoon, Scott Padgett?
Ugh, there is practically no difference between playing Howard and Taylor. One of these two guys needs to be moved, so that Weatherspoon moves into the backup to provide energy and rebounding off the bench as a nice deviation. I will not be happy if I see both Taylor and Howard still playing on this team when the season starts. 

C: A
Yao Ming, Dikembe Mutombo
Assuming the Mutombo trade goes through, of course. Mutombo is as good of a backup as you can possibly find. He isn't expected to do much, just stay in the paint and block a few shots to ignite fast breaks when Yao is on the bench, so he should be fresh all year. My prediction for Yao is a 20/11/2(blocks) season. 

Overall, this is a team that's ready to contend for the championship if they sort out the logjams at PG and PF, while providing some extra depth to the SG and SF positions. The Rockets were smart to build this team off the blueprint of the three peat Lakers, but they still lack the number of three point shooters the Lakers had. You've got two guys with Finals experience in Mutombo and Ward, and built the team up from two hungry young players in Yao and T-Mac. I don't see just one championship in the near future, I see many.


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## rocketsthathavespurs (Jul 17, 2004)

good post


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## texan (Jul 10, 2003)

PG: C-
Bob Sura, Tyronn Lue, Charlie Ward, Reece Gaines, Mike Wilks

Unless Reece Gaines breaks out this is still a subpar position for the Rockets not deserving a B grade. Sura isn't a true PG and won't get the ball in the hands of Yao or Tmac.

SG: A
Tracy McGrady, Adrian Griffin

This is self explanatory

SF: B-
Jim Jackson, Bostjan Nachbar

How do you rate this position below the PG position? Jackson proved to be a worthy investment and a capable role playing starter and Nachbar is set to break out. Much better than the likes of Ty lue, Bob Sura and Ward.

PF: B
Juwan Howard, Maurice Taylor, Clarence Weatherspoon, Scott Padgett?

I agree on the grade here. We have two scoring PF's that don't play D but are still decent starters.

C: A
Yao Ming and Deke Mutombo

Yao is still not dominant but very good. Deke is a great backup. One of the best center combos if the Deke trade goes thru.

This team is not a title contender, YET. Give them a year or two more to put in some missing key pieces and for Yao to develop more and they should be a force to be reckoned with. Expect a 4th or 5th seed and a 2nd round exit.


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## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

pg - C+ sura, lue, ward

nothing special here but solid. sura is not a bad starting pg and that's all the rockets really need. lue is solid as a backup and had a career year last year starting. ward is garbage but knows van gundy's system.

sg - A tmac, nachbar, gaines

tmac is a top 5 player in the game. that alone gets the sg position an A. i don't see griffin really getting many minutes this year. mostly when tmac comes out, i expect jackson to slide over to the 2 and nachbar to play the 3. and gaines should see some time here too because i doubt he gets time at pg.

sf - B- jackson, nachbar, griffin

jackson is a solid veteran. he's going to him perimeter shots and be the consistent 3rd or 4th option on this team and play good defense. nachbar is young and looks ready to become a very good role player. he can definately hits shots and showed lots of potential when he played. griffin can play some d, but i think his minutes will be limited.

pf - B- howard, taylor, weatherspoon

howard and taylor are similar in that both can play offense, but neither is a good rebounder or defender. whoever starts will be in the bottom half of the pf starters in the league, but the guy off the bench will be one of the top bench players. this position should be pretty consistent since both guys bring the same thing to the table. weatherspoon is garbage, but will probably see a few minutes because he seems to be the kind of player van gundy likes. hopefully his minutes will be limited or not there at all.

c - A yao, mutumbo(?)

if the rockets get mutumbo, this is another A. yao should keep improving and thrive with a guy like tmac next to him. the offense should still run through yao but he won't have to burden of being the go to scorer with tmac on his team. if mutumbo comes, he should be a great defensive backup for yao. he can block shots and grab rebounds and his offense won't be too huge of a liability because the rockets will always have a scoring pf in the game. of course this all depends on the possible trade for mutumbo.

overall i see the rockets finishing somewhere between 3-6 and making it to the 2nd round at least(but not the finals).


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## KeiranHalcyon (Nov 27, 2003)

Center: Yao/Mutombo(?)
If we do get a good backup for Yao, we're set here. We've got one of the biggest matchup problems in the league, who's been tearing up the international courts this summer. If he can stay consistent with that level of intensity, he should explode for 20/10/2 at the very least. However, his conditioning will be a problem, I think--he's basically been playing three years NONSTOP basketball, at 7-6. His knees will go eventually if he keeps this up. Let's pray that it doesn't happen soon. 
Grade: A-

Power Forward: Howard/Taylor/Weatherspoon
We've got two good scoring PFs, one of which will be coming off the bench in a sixth man role. The other will most likely be the third option, if not the fourth. It's an upgrade from Cato on one end of the court, but even if we were to combine Howard and Taylor somehow, we'd still be lacking in defense. This is going to come back and hurt us immensely unless JVG can teach Howard some defense FAST. Still, 12/7 and average defense from Howard is about what I'm expecting. If these three can learn defense, we're fine.
Grade: B-

Small Forward: Jackson/Nachbar/Griffin
Jackson should be his solid self, just like last year. This will most likely work against him, though--last year, he was one of the brightest spots of a somewhat disappointing season. Why? We didn't know it was coming. Now, though, we know what to expect, and if we don't get it, there'll be severe backlash against him. But I think he'll stay about where he was last year; maybe slight decreases across the board due to more playing time for Nachbar. Boki is hard for me to call, really. He'll be an x-factor this year. If he can bring steady outside shooting, some slashing, and good defense, we're set. If he does what he has his first two seasons... Well, let's just hope we get more out of him than that.
Grade: B-

Shooting Guard: McGrady/Sura/Griffin/Gaines
T-mac is a top-five talent in the league. If his claims about this offseason are true, he'll be a top-five player in the league. Let's hope. Anything less than his best all-around season so far and he's not performing up to our expectations. I expect his scoring to drop--no idea how much, but this IS a Van Gundy team--but his all-around play to skyrocket. Nothing less than 25/6/6 would make T-mac a success for this team. Sura can play brief backup minutes; Griffin and Gaines play when/if needed.
Grade: A

Point Guard: Sura/Lue/Ward
Bob Sura wouldn't have been my first choice by any means. But I'm happy with the signing. He'll be solid but unspectacular. Which is fine by me. And I don't think that his "I want a triple double again" attitude will be that much of a problem. JVG wouldn't have him on the team if it would be. Lue should be a high energy point, great at igniting the break. Ward will be Ward, exactly what JVG expects.
Grade: C+

I think that my words about Sura will essentially describe this team's season, except for T-mac and Yao: Solid but unspectacular. We'll be a good team, in the second half of the playoff bracket, maybe even make it into the second round. But past that? Ehhhhh.

And for those who worry about egos, don't. Van Gundy will work these guys into shape, trust me. Keep in mind that Moochie Norris, pretty much the most happy-go-lucky guy on the team, shaved his afro to get along with his new coach. T-mac is working out hard.

And honestly, I think that T-mac and Yao will be the best combo in the league for years. They're both very unselfish players who can pass, score, and defend--not to mention the fact that they pose HUGE matchup problems for the other team.

Speaking of matchups, how's this for large and small lineups for the Rockets?
Small: Lue/Sura/JJ/Howard/Weatherspoon
Large: Sura/Tmac/Taylor/Howard/Yao

No matter how you look at it, this season is going to be one to remember. Let's hear it for the Rockets!


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## badianeinyourface (Aug 10, 2004)

I disagree about the large lineup,heres a option if the rox bring over my boy,

gaines/tmac/boki/badiane/yao
They also are pursueing Swift, and would be,swift instead of badiane.Knowing how crazy jvg is,i wouldnt be surprised to see this lineup some minutes>

tmac/jimjackson/boki/yao/mutumbo (lol)


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## HeinzGuderian (Jun 29, 2004)

PG: C
Bob Sura, Tyronn Lue, Charlie Ward, Reece Gaines, Mike Wilks

Was a D until we got Sura and Ward, so im not complaining. I think Ward starts, he will do exactly what we need. Sura will be the first off the bench at the 1, depending on the competition Gaines and Lue give him. Solid but unspectacular, remember C = average while B = good. It isnt B material.

SG: A+
Tracy McGrady, Adrian Griffin

Best 2 guard in the league (on par with Kobe anyway), and Griffin is a great fit in Houston and will be a solid backup for 10mpg. Sura could see minutes here too. 

SF: B-
Jim Jackson, Bostjan Nachbar

Above average at this position, maybe not in terms of talent and ability, but in terms of fit with the team definitely. 

PF: B-
Juwan Howard, Maurice Taylor, Clarence Weatherspoon, Scott Padgett?

Will be set on the offensive end, but we would be better off with a defensive minded PF for Van Gundy. Nevertheless he will make them at least bearable on the defensive end. At least we have... depth here. 

C: A
Yao Ming and Mutumbo
Yao is self explanitory, and Mutumbo is one of the best reserve C's in the league. Wish we had one more guy here tho, maybe a good PF/C combo, incase Mutumbo gets injured. Yao shouldnt play any more than 35mpg.


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## The_Franchise (Mar 30, 2003)

*Depth Chart*

According to Richard Justice in today's Houston chron, he expects Ward to be the starting PG at the start of the season. If so, our DC looks like:

PG: Ward / Lue / Sura
SG: McGrady / Sura / Pike / Griffin
SF: Jim Jackson / Sura / Nachbar
PF: Howard / Taylor / Weatherspoon
C: Ming /

I like it alot more if Sura starts at the PG, and backs up TMac for those 10 minutes he isn't on the floor. We obviously have an abudance of guards right now, I really hope that Pike for Mutumbo deal goes through.


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## rocketsthathavespurs (Jul 17, 2004)

if we get mutombo(i hope we do)


1. sura/lue/ward pretty deep and will be good at shooting open shots and not tourning the ball ova! grade B


2.jackson/gaines/griffin/sura nice overall deep have some vets and younens and some nice defenders. i think these players can all defend and jim can shoot 3s. grade B


mcgrady/boki not as deep but has a great player in mcgrady plus booki got good d and can make open shoots. i think mcgrady is and can lead the team in scoring mybe asists grade A



howard/taylor/weatherspoon good depthe bad def. frm all but weatherspoon. can get good pt out of howard and talyor plaus some reb. grade B

Yao/mutombo(hopefully) great shot blocking and repounding plus yao can score alot and this will help team alot cause of there great d. grade A


coaching: great coaching in defense and good at offense ecspecialy now wid mcgrady. grade A


hope fully this team can do great on the court and go deep in playoffs! final grade A-




1.sura b- 83
2.jim jackson b+ 87
3.tmac A 96
4.howard c+ 79.4
5.yao A 95


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## sandshans (Jul 12, 2004)

*oh, all good post*

hah, this is the best post i've seen here.


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## rawzzy (Aug 3, 2004)

PG - A bunch of scrubs, and the best player out of them (Sura) isnt even an actual point guard. *D*
McGrady is a fantastic player, but his defense is sub-par for a man of his athleticism. He's also never won. Adrian Griffin is atrocious and has no business being in the league, let alone a backup. Shouldn't Sura be listed as #2?*A-*
Jim Jackson's old and grotty, but he's still semi-decent. Nachbar has potential but so far he sucks. Below average group.*C*
Not a lot of defense here, but some solid scoring I guess.*C+*
Yao is the most overrated player in the league, 3x more overratedf than whoevers #2. But he's still a top-5ish center. Mutumbo is D.O.N.E - DONE!*B+*
Overall: *B*
Prediction: *6th Seed In The West, eliminated in the 1st round 4-3*


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## hitokiri315 (Apr 30, 2004)

Ouch Rawzy you make quite a negative preditction. You must have woken up on the wrong side of the bed today. Dont take it out on the rockets message boards. I value your opinion but i think it may be a little biased.

And Yao Ming is not the most overrated player in the NBA. Chris Webber is.


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## rawzzy (Aug 3, 2004)

Not negative, just my honest opinion.
Houstons point guard situation is horrible. They deserve a D.
Shooting guard McGrayd is a franchise talent but he hasnt proven anything besides great stats yet and Griffin shouldnt be anybodys backup. A- is about right I think, thought I could see it riased to an A.
Jim Jackson is old and was never that good when he was young. Nachbar has shown next to nothing so far, right? C is fair.
Juwan Howard is a cancer. I would have rather had Andrew Declerqs crappiness than Howards curse. But he does put up solid offensive numbers. Mo Taylor is "plump" now isnt he? His career started out nice but its been downhill ever since. Weatherspoon is old crap. C+ is fair.
Yao has nights of greatness but he also has nights of scrubness. He has potential but hes a long ways away. A guy 7'6" not averaging double-figures in rebounding just screams soft. and Mutumbo is more old former Knicks crap. B+ is fair.


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## rocketsthathavespurs (Jul 17, 2004)

well i think we can atleast get to second round but if we face the the spurs we wil prob loose and if we get to go against t-wolves i think we can win!!!!


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

How can the PG situation not get an F or at best D? It is outside of probably Atlanta easily the worst in the league and the PF spot is the worst in the West tied with Seattle.


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## badianeinyourface (Aug 10, 2004)

amare should get a F also. Outside of 1 foot he is ineffective.


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## rocketsthathavespurs (Jul 17, 2004)

lol how come u hate the rockets so much bigamare


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## Hollis (Jun 4, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> How can the PG situation not get an F or at best D? It is outside of probably Atlanta easily the worst in the league and the PF spot is the worst in the West tied with Seattle.


Why do people underrate Taylor and Howard so much? they're not great, but as a 3/4th option they're pretty damn good..they averaged 29 and 13 combined last year...


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## The_Franchise (Mar 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hollis</b>!
> Why do people underrate Taylor and Howard so much? they're not great, but as a 3/4th option they're pretty damn good..they averaged 29 and 13 combined last year...


Exactly, it's not like they are going to be our 1st or 2nd option, unlike:

Kevin Garnett
Tim Duncan
Elton Brand
Lamar Odom
Chris Webber
Pau Gasol
Kenyon Martin
Amare Stoudemire
Carlos Boozer
Zach Randolph
Troy Murphy (big year coming from him)

All the aforementioned players are expected to carry the scoring load of their team, or atleast be a 2nd option. We don't need that from our PF's. And after seeing what Gumby did with Francis and Mobley last year, it's not like Howard will be a liability on defense.

Sura, Ward, Jackson, Howard and Taylor are very good role players and that's all we need alongside Yao and TMac.


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## RP McMurphy (Jul 17, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Ming Bling</b>!
> ...it's not like Howard will be a liability on defense.


:laugh:


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## Ballscientist (Nov 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rawzzy</b>!
> PG - A bunch of scrubs, and the best player out of them (Sura) isnt even an actual point guard. *D*
> McGrady is a fantastic player, but his defense is sub-par for a man of his athleticism. He's also never won. Adrian Griffin is atrocious and has no business being in the league, let alone a backup. Shouldn't Sura be listed as #2?*A-*
> Jim Jackson's old and grotty, but he's still semi-decent. Nachbar has potential but so far he sucks. Below average group.*C*
> ...


How many D teams in the east? Grade D


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## HeinzGuderian (Jun 29, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>ArtestFan</b>!
> 
> 
> :laugh:


You dont know much about Jeff Van Gundy... Howard won't win any DPOY awards, but Van Gundy at the least will make him play defense. As long as he plays hard on that end of the floor, we wont be a liability.


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## wild_style (Feb 26, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>rocketsthathavespurs</b>!
> well i think we can atleast get to second round but if we face the the spurs we wil prob loose and if we get to go against t-wolves i think we can win!!!!


you arent beating the wolves any time soon, them and the spurs are the real complete teams in the west, and will be in the WCF


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## Hakeem (Aug 12, 2004)

PG: C+
So-so. Sura seems to have a big ego, but is really a decent player, Ward is a little too weathered, Lue is ordinary and Gaines has proven zilch.

SG: B+ (unless JVG works a miracle)
McGrady is a gun, but his D is crap. Griffin sucks.

SF: C
JJ was decent, but he is getting old. Nachbar still has a long way to go.

PF: B
Howard and Mo can both score, but both are poor rebounders who have shoddy D.

C: A (assuming we get Mutombo; otherwise, B)
Yao has a good shooting touch and should improve, but he's a poor rebounder for his size (hell, Manute Bol would've killed him on the boards). Mutombo should be a great backup, but we'll be in trouble if we don't get him.


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