# The Joey Graham Watch



## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

Joey has kind of turned into the new Hoffa of this team. 

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/joey_graham/index.html

He certainly isn't off to the greatest of starts to his sophomore season and he has his work cut out for him to get playing time.

Sam went small ball in the fourth quarter to get Joey in at power forward, which does indicate that Mitchell *wants* to use him this season.

Do you think Joey can turn it around? Is he going to be part of the rotation?

Maybe he'll get a better opportunity against the 76ers.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

Every time I watch Joey play I do so with low expectations. Every time he shows you something it's like a huge achievement. I really want him to succeed but he is utterly lost on the court so often I wonder if he's cut out for the NBA.

He still has the rest of the season to integrate himself. I think it will be tougher for him this year than last, though. Not only is he behind three great swing players, he has PJ Tucker nipping at his heels. And Tucker has looked comfortable on the floor when given the burn.

Hopefully Joey can get it together.


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## Dee-Zy (Jan 12, 2006)

technically, he should only behind Jones for a SF spot, but the lack of minutes shows that he isn't showing much promise.


I can't even imagine a line up of


TJ, Jose, Tucker, Graham, Jorge



I think I would cry.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

I seem to think that he'll find his niche as the season goes along. He's one of our faster players in the open court and I'd like to see him get on the court with TJ a bit more. 

I wish he had better cutting skills. With TJ at point we need guys that seal and backcut for dunks.


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## kirk_2003 (Jun 23, 2003)

he dunks funny.


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## ansoncarter (Dec 22, 2004)

kirk_2003 said:


> he dunks funny.


so funny he wins dunk competitions and dunks on your head until your unconscious


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

Basically I have written off as an NBA player. No expectations and I see no positives. Hope he proves me wrong, but at this point he has to prove himself in the 3 to 5 minutes a game he plays. He is simply too dumb, and too big a detriment right now, to allow him more time (when we have better options)


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## cram (Jul 18, 2003)

Expect him to have the same career as Darvin Ham


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

cram said:


> Expect him to have the same career as Darvin Ham


Darvin Ham has 5200 career minutes played. Joey now has about 1600 (He actually averaged 20 a game last year) - Joey will be out of the league before he hits 3000.


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## Victor Page (Nov 1, 2006)

hahahaha Darvin Ham! 

Just because he has a bald head and is jacked, doesn't mean he'll have a similar career.

That's like comparing Adam Morrison to Larry Bird because both are white guys with funny mustaches
(wait, that comparison is made all the time by tons of people, many of whom never saw Larry Bird play).

Joey will get minutes as soon as he learns how to defend - simple as that. With his strength and athleticism, he has the potential to stick in the league. But then again, a lot of guys do and never figure out how to defend.


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## Dee-Zy (Jan 12, 2006)

How long and what did it take for artest to get his defensive rep he has today?


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

I was a fan of Joey going into the draft but all the press around him has turned out to be false. His D is horrible. Basic stance and footwork are a disaster. I don't get it.

And he looks completely lost on offense. Literally scared and not knowing what to do when the ball comes to him.

It will take a trade or an injury to get him major PT at this point. MoP, Parker, and FJones taking all the wing minutes.

I'm always amazed that a team as bad as the Raps cannot find minutes to develop their younger players.


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## SickGame (Jan 23, 2006)

Graham is never going to be a solid contributer in the NBA. He will average at max 6-7 ppg and 10 points on a good game. He doesn't have the handles nor the IQ to play fluidly on the field. He has the right tools on the physical side, but as it has been proven over and over again in the NBA, that results to nothing if there is no IQ to alongside with it.
His defense, which had been advertised as Artest-esque (add a Junior on the end), has been nothing of the such. It's actually a liability.
Though this is his second year, there has been no demonstration that he has the skill set to drastically increase his play (from preseason to the first three games). Unless a miracle comes about, I truly believe he will be labelled as a bust.


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## ballocks (May 15, 2003)

joey graham is my great hope for this team- still. i'm sure sam mitchell has had success in developing other young players in his tenure, it's just that i think he's done a rather poor job with joey. something tells me that if joey were on another team in this league, he'd be better off. he and sam don't mesh- not in terms of personality conflict, just... conflict- and while some blame could certainly fall on joey graham for that, i think more blame than we're normally comfortable assigning to him deserves to also fall on sam mitchell. i think it's been unfair, and sam has repeatedly (in the moments i've seen) been less than tactful when it comes to joey graham. i simply don't think joey has the inner strength of a garnett or a bosh- if i had to pick something- and for us to continue to have him run the gauntlet as if he did is a mistake imo.

now, i'm aware that he's only a second year player. that's worth noting. but aside from that, i don't know how it could be any more obvious that the obstacles/struggles in his game lie primarily in his mind. he appears very reluctant to do much, to contribute anything, far too often for my liking. but it's a reluctance; it's not an inability.

what's more, there is a fire there that flashes periodically, and goes to further confirm (for me) his basic discomfort at other times. i'll even drop an example: i don't know how many other folks caught it, but in the last preseason game at chicago- where we were getting punished and our team looked almost hungover- it was (imo) joey graham who took the initiative to make something better of it. he was a spectator for the start of the game (on and off the court) like he normally is, but when he began to realize that the team was struggling mightily and had little interest in playing whatsoever, it was joey who appeared to make a statement, something like, "screw this. if i have to do it alone i'll do it alone."

for me, it wasn't refreshing so much as it was revealing. further, not only did he take initiative in those moments, i thought he also showed excellent talent. but remember: i think the only way to explain how it came out of him at all is to suggest that he had no choice in the matter- the rest of his teammates were terrible and apathetic that night, easing any pressure on him to perform, and allowing him to feel comfortable enough to assume more responsibility. if true, it falls squarely on sam (in my world, anyway) that we don't see more of _that_ joey graham, that he's still so uncomfortable around the team on the court (and possibly off) that he's reluctant- not unable- to make more frequent and valid contributions. 

some would say he's professional but he's still young, even in this era, and has yet to assume an identity in the league. until that changes, it could easily be argued that it's the coaching staff who is most responsible for pulling the best talents out of his body and transferring them to the basketball court. i think he could be more than just a rotation player, too- guys who perceive moments like the one noted above are not the easiest to come by; it's a special gift to play better in response to your teammates playing worse- but i hope we can draw it out of him. i do think his value to the future of this team is understated.

peace


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

It's interesting that ballocks sees that fire in Joey, because I have been coming to the conclusion that he just doesn't have that competitive fire in him. He's just too nice a guy and it carries over to the court.

He doesn't look like a fighter out there to me. He repeatedly gets beat the same way and doesn't change his technique. He never looks angry or embarassed, just lost. Where is the pride, the passion, the anger at getting beat?

I think he has the skill set to be used effectively as a 6th man on some teams. But you can't ask him to go outside his comfort zone. A creative, free flowing offense is probably not his thing. You have to question his bball IQ.

I am definitely disappointed so far.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

9 points in the first half vs Philly :banana:


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

Showed off some improved handles there to go with his shot.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

Mitchell uses him tonight and is rewarded. Graham with 16 points and is even played in the final minutes.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

Joey must've been reading this thread. Or maybe he switched with Stephen? Dastardly!


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## MrkLrn13 (Mar 1, 2006)

Yeah, WTF.


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## billfindlay10 (Jan 24, 2003)

speedythief said:


> Joey must've been reading this thread. Or maybe he switched with Stephen? Dastardly!



Ooooh....tye old switcharoo!.....very very sneaky!


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## shookem (Nov 1, 2005)

Joey Graham what? Haters what?

Nice game from Graham, that'a boy. I figuring him as the guy who would fall out of the rotation but more games like last night and he won't be going anywhere.


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## shookem (Nov 1, 2005)

*Graham growing into role as a spark off bench*
Nov. 9, 2006. 01:00 AM
DOUG SMITH
SPORTS REPORTER

Joey Graham is supposed to be a spark, a scorer, a defender, an energizing athlete off the bench.

It's a role he would seem made for; he's got a nice shot and great hops and the strength to hold off anyone on the boards.

But as he searches for that elusive consistency, games like last night's can only help him.

Graham, who runs hot and cold like few Raptors before him, provided a big spark off the bench for the Raptors in their 106-104 victory over the Philadelphia 76ers.

"We had a good few days of practice and coach just told me he was going to need me," said Graham, who finished with 16 points and three rebounds in 22 minutes.

"I took it upon myself to come out and play hard and give the guys some good minutes because we definitely needed this win."

Graham was brimming with confidence for once.
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Co...315&call_pageid=969907729483&col=970081562040


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## cram (Jul 18, 2003)

Victor Page said:


> hahahaha Darvin Ham!
> 
> Just because he has a bald head and is jacked, doesn't mean he'll have a similar career.
> 
> ...


Their games and ability to contribute are eerily similar. Open your eyes.


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## Pimped Out (May 4, 2005)

damnit, i dropped him from my fantasy team a week ago and it sounds like he is doing better now


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## Victor Page (Nov 1, 2006)

Darvin Ham was a forward, big time dunker, absolutely no handle and no shot, couldn't hit a free throw if his life depended on it - he was mainly used as an energy guy and someone that could create havoc on the offensive glass.

Joey Graham is a 2 or a 3, has some handle, is not a rebounder, decent shooter, and can guard 2s and 3s (or tries to anyway). 

They're not similar - other than no hair and big arms. 

Joey's game might develop into MoPete's - good defender with an offensive game limited to taking open shots and fast break layups.

PJ Tucker is closer to Darvin Ham.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

Bump.

Mitchell using Joey more and more with Garbo being out. Graham's getting another huge chance and he's been looking pretty damn solid.

How bout that dunk last night!:yay:


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## TJ Ford (Dec 16, 2006)

I thought we drafted him because of his defence. I havn't seen that in his two years here. Move these feet Joey!


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## drlove_playa (Feb 11, 2005)

He has the worst defensive stance I have ever seen. Try bending your knees and getting low Joey. He stands up as straight as a board and moves his feet like he has gum on his shoes.

Joey is best when cutting into the lane. I think he is a horrible long range shooter. His shot looks real awkward and has no form. When he pulls up baseline from 14 ft out he is money. But he can't hit a 3-pointer to save his life (despite those couple he hit the other nite vs the 76ers).

However, I hope he can pick it up going into the playoffs.. he would be a much needed spark coming off of the bench.


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## jayk009 (Aug 6, 2003)

Like kwame Brown, he has all the physical tools of being a dominant player.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

He has looked good with the increased playing time, like Humphries.

How nice it is to have depth.


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## mo76 (Jun 13, 2003)

oooowwww eeeeeee


Joey Graham


He is lights out. He looks like he could be a great rebounder, is good on the break, and can hit the midrange J. 
He has great straight line speed without the ball. I think he has the potential to be a really usefull player, if he develops more confidence. He could be a great player if he was mean and aggressive.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

Joey has been shining lately.

The depth on this team is hard to properly appreciate. Every night we're getting contributions from somebody new.


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## shookem (Nov 1, 2005)

A fantasic night for Joey. He is playing with confidence and it's a wonderful thing to watch. He's had a good long streak of decent games lately and I'm hoping we've seen him turn the corner.


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## junkyarddawgg (Mar 24, 2005)

It was just great to see Joey G drain 2 or 3 straight shots in the CHI game... It was like his confidence went trhough the roof and he was in full control of his potential... I hope this is JG's coming out party, just in time for the playoffs


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## TJ Ford (Dec 16, 2006)

This guy has all the physical tools necessary. I think he will be a huge contribution come playoff time.


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## AReallyCoolGuy (Jul 25, 2004)

I haven't been able to catch the last few games. Has his 1 on 1 defense shown the same type of improvement?


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

^ He did a good job with Deng tonight but overall he still has reaching/lateral movement issues that need to be corrected.


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## Junkyard Dog13 (Aug 9, 2003)

I was there was really impresssed with how he played, did a good job on D, is'nt a perimeter defender more so a good loose ball rebounder and scrapper down low.
Slowly his D is getting better but more so he is getting confidence to use some of his power moves on offense.


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## TRON (Feb 29, 2004)

Joey had one the most aggresive moves I've ever seen of him last night, when he took Nocioni off the dribble, took the contact and finished at rim, while making it look almost effortless.

I've seen him dunk, shoot and pass before...but that play really opened my eyes to his potential.


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## ballocks (May 15, 2003)

i tell you what, i've always felt bad for joey... to some degree, anyway. the "inconsistent" label has affixed itself to his play even tighter than it did to mo pete's back in the day, and i mean, it's so weak (imo). it's just for people looking to oversimplify a rather complicated issue.

we've said it before but what exactly is expected of joey graham the night after he scores... 20, for example, if he only plays 5 minutes? how much of that is joey graham being "bad joey"? he's in no position to do anything, really. are we going to complain about garbo's absence from the scoresheet while he sits in a suit on the bench?

people continue to ask graham to explain his "inconsistency" and i shed a tear for the man. he just shrugs his shoulders, resigned to the fact that 'people' don't (want to?) understand the whole issue, he doesn't want to offend anyone himself, and just says something like, "i just try to be as good as i can in the time that i'm given."

minutes played is critical, man. i don't know how anyone could compare one night's 20 pts, in 43 minutes, to the next night's 0 pts, in 7 minutes. what is he supposed to do?

whatever, i feel like we've been fighting this war forever. it won't change a thing to try to 'educate' anyone; joey's got this 'tag' now and he has to live with it. maybe mop can give him some pointers, although i don't know what they could be.

peace


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## shookem (Nov 1, 2005)

I guess, in most cases if a player only gets seven minutes in a game it's because someone is doing better than him that night. I agree that Joey got labelled a little quickly but let's face it, some night he just ain't that good.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

Joey just keeps on rolling. Sometimes it seems defenders just don't know what to think of him at this point. They're still sagging way off him as he makes his move with the ball. And I guess that's the thing, Joey is all about making quick moves with the ball - juke dribble pullup for example - that are very difficult to guard. I do think his ballhandling looks greatly improved from last year and that is making him look almost...fluid. 

His (midrange) shot is money. His perimeter defense has improved. His rebounding is much needed. He's a starter and he's playing like one! Amazing.

19 points on 11 shots last game.


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## shookem (Nov 1, 2005)

He averaging 15 ppg in the last six.

In the last 14 he's doing 10.5 ppg, 4.9 rpg. Very Garboish numbers.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

His mid-range is probably up there with Bosh and Parker. If he works harder on his first step, which he has used this year and has sometimes been very impressive, he could be a consistent threat between the arc and the paint; we need that.


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## crimedog (Jun 3, 2003)

that's what i noticed lately...his midrange from the baseline has always been money, but now he is hitting consistently from the elbows and top of the circle off the dribble. 

and, i hate to say it, because i know it's coming tonight with extended minutes, but has anyone seen joey clear out/push off with his off arm when taking it to the hoop lately? 

that always seemed like the easiest thing to fix to me, but he always does (did?) it.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

He hasn't been picking up as many offensive fouls, it seems, or maybe they are just easier to forget because he is playing better.

He still doesn't have the court awareness you'd like to see him develop. His defence can often be good but when he loses concentration he gets abused like his feet are nailed to the floor. He doesn't seem to want to post-up either, which is a shame because he has the size and power to do it.

If it ever clicks with Joey, he'll be a great player for our team.


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## crimedog (Jun 3, 2003)

it's interesting that last year when BC was talking about the raps core last year, he always mentioned Joey, along with Charlie and Chris.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

crimedog said:


> it's interesting that last year when BC was talking about the raps core last year, he always mentioned Joey, along with Charlie and Chris.


Yeah, but he's kind of stopped talking about Joey. Pretty much since TJ came on board the three players he mentions as the team core are Bosh, Ford, and Bargnani, occasionally throwing Calderon into that conversation as a transition into mentioning the other role players.

I think Joey has shown progress this season but a more consistent effort needs to be made to give him a role and let him try and fulfill it. Spot minutes, like Pete is getting, won't do it.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

Will be very interesting to watch what Joey does with these last two games going into the playoffs. With the big guns getting extended rest there should be even more minutes and shots for Joey, with Mitchell needing to get Joey ready to play playoff ball. 

Go Joe!

Edit: damn, not playing today.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

Is it me or is this like the second or third time Joey has had the flu this year?


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## shookem (Nov 1, 2005)

speedythief said:


> Is it me or is this like the second or third time Joey has had the flu this year?


Someone should let him know that everyone gets a free flu shot in Ontario.

Either that or get some of this:








​NHL tough guys use it, so you know it works.


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## ktrulez77 (Jun 23, 2003)

speedythief said:


> He doesn't seem to want to post-up either, which is a shame because he has the size and power to do it.


and didnt he played PF in college ball?! he should learned a thing or two working in the post!


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## Junkyard Dog13 (Aug 9, 2003)

who will start at SF in the playoffas Mo or Joey?


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## ballocks (May 15, 2003)

speedythief said:


> Is it me or is this like the second or third time Joey has had the flu this year?


yup, second time in a week. the knicks game was post-flu 1, pre-flu 2. i remember thinking about it after joey made his dramatic dunk in the final minute that night, "don't get too close to jose, joey. don't pass those germs." in celebration, their faces were close enough to kiss (passionately ). 

and what happens? well, jose's fine but joey must've passed that bacteria onto himself. flu again. weird, weird, weird. i guess it's one of those things that happens when you're a twin and your brother isn't around to collect your sickness... you just get it twice (and as you said, in joey's case it's been more than twice... maybe joey and stephen have another sibling or two).

peace


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