# Where does V.Carter rank among today's best?



## 33 (Nov 18, 2002)

I was thinking that Vince has slipped over the past 2 years. I know he has been injured, but I have noticed a lack in leadership and players don't fear him like they use to. What do you think?


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## IV (Jul 16, 2002)

VC's game has slipped after he had his injury, but I believe he will find his way back to stardom. He has been playing a little timid and you can tell the injury still effects him. I just hope he doesnt turn into the next Grant Hill, knock on wood.


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## rynobot (Oct 10, 2002)

I think it is obvious he has slipped from the top tier of players like T-Mac, Bryant and even Pierce. I don't think it is becuase of his lack of leadership but because of the injuries, he almost made it to the Finals two years ago.


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## 33 (Nov 18, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rynobot</b>!
> I think it is obvious he has slipped from the top tier of players like T-Mac, Bryant and even Pierce. I don't think it is becuase of his lack of leadership but because of the injuries, he almost made it to the Finals two years ago.



The Raptors almost made it to the Eastern Conference Finals, not the Finals. That's a big difference


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

1a.TMAC
1b.KOBE
2. Iverson
3. Pierce
4. Stackhouse
5. Finley
6. Allen
7. Carter


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## 33 (Nov 18, 2002)

*Re: Re: Where does V.Carter rank among today's best?*



> Originally posted by <b>BEEZ</b>!
> 1a.TMAC
> 1b.KOBE
> 2. Iverson
> ...





What about:

Duncan
Shaq
KG
Kidd
Francis
Baron Davis
Dirk
Payton..........


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## TheRifleman (May 20, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Where does V.Carter rank among today's best?*

<b>quote: 
Originally posted by BEEZ!
1a.TMAC
1b.KOBE
2. Iverson
3. Pierce
4. Stackhouse
5. Finley
6. Allen
7. Carter 
</b>



> Originally posted by <b>33</b>!
> 
> What about:
> 
> ...


I think everyone is stating this about sg/sf who are roughly in the same height range (6'5" - to - 6'8"), except for Iverson, the <b>Littlest phenom of the bunch!</b>


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## 33 (Nov 18, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Where does V.Carter rank among today's best?*



> Originally posted by <b>TheRifleman</b>!
> <b>quote:
> Originally posted by BEEZ!
> 1a.TMAC
> ...



I'm talking about ballers, anybody who is good. Vince is not one of the top players to me. He is exciting to watch, but as far as the game goes, he is not a top tier player


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## TheRifleman (May 20, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Where does V.Carter rank among today's best?*



> Originally posted by <b>33</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> I'm talking about ballers, anybody who is good. Vince is not one of the top players to me. He is exciting to watch, but as far as the game goes, he is not a top tier player


Yes, we all have our own opinions on players, coaches, and teams; but my opinion is different than yours. To me,<b> Vince is a top tier player,</b> who is not only exciting to watch, but also has the most beautiful "J" to go with his exciting dunks.

PS) He also makes great passes and is a solid team defender. I just like his game.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

I think a thing to ask here would be has he slipped because of his play or because of nagging injuries the last two years?


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>truebluefan</b>!
> I think a thing to ask here would be has he slipped because of his play or because of nagging injuries the last two years?


Hard to say because at the start of last season that injury wasnt their *at least to the public's knowledge* and he had already started to not drive as much and became infatuated with shooting the long J instad of driving


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## tinygiant (Sep 10, 2002)

I think once Vince gets back into the swing of things after his injuries the only people from that list that I might put ahead of him are Kobe, T-Mac, and AI. I think he is really working on his all around game. While he hasn't had a breakout game yet in the 4 since he came back, one thing that I have really been impressed with is his passing. It has really gotten a lot better over the last couple of years. And once he gets his overall timing together again, I think this will really help.
And yes, the old criticism is true. He isn't an amazing defender. But he clearly has been working on that as well. Overall, I'm not sure that guys like Allen, Finley and Stackhouse can do all of the same kinds of things as Carter. Pierce might be close, but if Vince is healthy, I'd put him over PP.


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## Hitman (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>33</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> The Raptors almost made it to the Eastern Conference Finals, not the Finals. That's a big difference


No, they almost made it to the finals. They lost to the Sixers in the Eastern Conference finals.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

vince is right up there with the best of the best. i rank him as a top 5 shooting guard, which is pretty good considering his competition. still one of the most exciting players in the game, if healthy he can be up there with tmac and kobe. not quite the one-on-one defender but he gets the job done. i like the impact that he has made on the raptors since his return, even without a breakout game per se. the raptors are competing again, keeping up with the mavs for much of their game the other night. 
the problem with carter at the present is he's playing with a pretty average (or poor) team unit. opposing teams can lock in on him pretty easily. i guess we'll see in the coming games how his team game has come along and if he's ready to bust out and start taking over games, especially in the 4th rather than the 1st quarter. tonight's matchup against the mash and the hornets will be a good test for carter and the raps.


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## Killuminati (Jul 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Hitman</b>!
> 
> 
> No, they almost made it to the finals. They lost to the Sixers in the Eastern Conference finals.


The Sixers went on to play the Bucks in the ECF.


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## Pinball (Aug 3, 2002)

To me, when Vince is healthy he is a top 10 player. Not quite on the TMac, Kobe, or maybe even Ivy level, but right there with PP. He is a wonderful offensive player. TMac, Kobe, and Ivy have better handling skills and are better playmakers, but Vince can shoot, score, and finish with the best of them. Defensively is where the gap lies. He is an average defender and solid on good nights, but he isn't nearly as versatile or effective as Kobe and Mac. Awesome offense+Average Defense+Decent intangibles=Top 10 player. Nothing more, nothing less.


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## HEATLUNATIC (May 27, 2002)

When VC is 100% he is a top 10 player,cuz hes the only player in the league that can SKYWALK over anyone!

1. Duncan
2. K.G.
3. T-Mac
4. Shaq
5. Dirk
6. Pierce
7. Kidd
8. Francis
9. Kobe
10. VC

Stack/Allen and Finley AREN'T in VC's league!!!


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## <<<D>>> (Jul 15, 2002)

VC will always be a good player and due to his recent injuries, it might of taken a few steps out of his game. I've noticed he hasn't been aggressive in attacking the rim and more settling down on the perimeter, not a bad shooter at all, but I've always felt his strengths were in the post and breaking down his opponents. He'll get it going, Injuries is the toughest challenge these athletes face.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

Even without the injuries, he is still nowhere near the complete player that Tmac and Kobe are. He is closer to Pierce, but I would still say Pierce is better all-around. And I would also say AI is ahead of him as far as a wing player.

Those would be my top tier guys, but I think Vince is better than guys like Finley and Ray Allen. I would say Vince is just below the top tier guys.

On Another Planet -- Tmac, Kobe
Top Tier -- Paul Pierce, AI
Almost Top Tier - Vince, Jordan (still)
Middle Tier -- Finley, Allen, Richardson, Hamilton, Stackhouse


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## rynobot (Oct 10, 2002)

What we don't know is if the injuries were preventing him from driving to the basket. He had his intial injury when the For all we know he was forced to shoot jumpers cause of the injuries.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>SkywalkerAC</b>!
> the problem with carter at the present is he's playing with a pretty average (or poor) team unit. opposing teams can lock in on him pretty easily


Terrible Terrible excuse. He has more talent on that team than TMAC, KOBE, AI, PP. AS a whole I know you can say KOBE got SHAQ but Raptors have better players as a whole than all the above formentioned people.


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## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>HEATLUNATIC</b>!
> When VC is 100% he is a top 10 player,cuz hes the only player in the league that can SKYWALK over anyone!
> 
> 1. Duncan
> ...


Where's the respect for GP??? Try:

1. Shaq
2. TD
3. T-Mac
4. Kobe
5. KG
6. Payton
7. Kidd
8. VC
9. Marion
10. Dirk


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BEEZ</b>!
> 
> 1. Shaq
> 2. T-MAC
> ...


No way is Marion better than AI or Dirk. Aint no way VC better than AI or Dirk


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## IV (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Where does V.Carter rank among today's best?*



> Originally posted by <b>33</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> I'm talking about ballers, anybody who is good. Vince is not one of the top players to me. He is exciting to watch, but as far as the game goes, he is not a top tier player


I agree with Rifleman on this one. VC is a top tier player. Sometimes as fans we tend to judge players that you dont like unfairly. I think you're judging Vince because he is injured or is at least coming of an injury and its slowed him down. We'll see if he gets back to full strength, and once he does that the best time to evaluate him


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Where does V.Carter rank among today's best?*



> Originally posted by <b>IV</b>!
> 
> 
> I agree with Rifleman on this one. VC is a top tier player. Sometimes as fans we tend to judge players that you dont like unfairly. I think you're judging Vince because he is injured or is at least coming of an injury and its slowed him down. We'll see if he gets back to full strength, and once he does that the best time to evaluate him


Hard to say because at the start of last season that injury wasnt their *at least to the public's knowledge* and he had already started to not drive as much and became infatuated with shooting the long J instad of driving


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BEEZ</b>!
> 
> 
> Terrible Terrible excuse. He has more talent on that team than TMAC, KOBE, AI, PP. AS a whole I know you can say KOBE got SHAQ but Raptors have better players as a whole than all the above formentioned people.


you really think so? i agree they are comparable but the raptors are horrible without vince. i would bet on each of these teams without their star to beat the raptors right now without vince. i know that you realize the state the raptors are in, do you actually see a ton of talent on this team? 
without vince carter you have alvin (great player but not head and shoulders above someone like snow), mo pete (usually struggles without vince to free up shots), jerome williams is injured (and has missed quite a few games) but i'll include him, and antonio davis with jelani or bradley or foster in the frontcourt. i'm sorry but that's not a lot to work with. this team can keep up with teams but rarely could they pull out wins. 
if the team weren't injury riddled, it would be a different story. with murray playing there would be a solid second scoring option. 
maybe i'm just tired of watching the raptors lose.


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## rynobot (Oct 10, 2002)

We don't know if Vince had the injury during the start of last season but he first injured his leg the year before.


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## Louie (Jun 13, 2002)

List of league's top five swingmen, according to a writer for USA today (i think that was the newspaper):
1-Kobe
2-McGrady
3-Pierce
4-Rose 
5-Stack
I guess Carter slipped off that list. Also, i guess he must have been considering Ive a pg, or he woulda been on there.


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## c_dog (Sep 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>HEATLUNATIC</b>!
> Stack/Allen and Finley AREN'T in VC's league!!!


Uh, WHAT? 

VC has had what? 1 good year when he almost led the raptors to the conference finals, and won slam dunk competition. That's pretty much it. I wouldn't call him an elite player. He has yet to lead the T-Mac less, but however, talented, raptors anywhere. If he hadn't gotten injured last season, raptors might not have made the playoffs. o_0

Stack has demonstrated that he is at least as good as VC. He has a great inside and outside game.

Ray Allen has superior shooting outside, and led the Bucks to the conference finals(almost made playoffs finals) when VC didn't. If Pierce is ranked higher than VC, so should this guy.

Finley is easily better than VC. His team is 17-1 right now. Finley also has a great outside game, and his dunks also quite impressive. He is a great team player, hence why the Mavs have such good team chemistry.


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## Wink (May 30, 2002)

Maybe it's just me but I look at the NBA as not only a sport but a business and therefore I rank Vince Carter right up there near the top. I'd say the only players higher than Vince are Shaq, Kobe, AI and maybe T-MAC

Vince is a skiller basketball player who has been hurt by injuries lately, he may lack leadership, but his athletisism and ability to take over in the 4th quarter make up for that. 

The biggest thing that seperates Vince from the Paul Peirces, Ray Allens, and Michael Finleys is his marketability. us here a BBB.net are basketball marks, we post on message boards read the articles on espn.com, buy the mags, check the box scores etc. 

But Vince does something for the average NBA fan the fan who isn't a mark, the guy who lives in Denver, and won't buy season's tickets because maybe he doesn't have the money or maybe just because the team sucks, but he will guy tickets for that Raptors game in hopes that he can see Vince Carter do one of those amazing dunks.

I remember back when the Grizzlies were in Vancouver, I coulnd't afford seasons tickets I was only like 15/16 around this time, the Bulls were coming to town and I slept overnight at a Shoppers Drug Mart because they had Grizzlies vs Bulls tickets going on sale and they were dirt cheap they were in the rafters crappy seats but I wanted to see Michael Jordon. I am by no means comparing Vince Carter to Michael Jordon skill wise but I'm talking about the fact that people want to see him, people want to see what the fuss is about. People want to see How Big this shaq guy is in real life, people want to see Kobe go off for 50 points and do it all, even if it's against there home team, people want to see a 5'10 guy blow by everyone, and people want to see Vince Carter do an amazing dunk.


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## TheRifleman (May 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b></b>!
> Maybe it's just me but I look at the NBA as not only a sport but a business and therefore I rank Vince Carter right up there near the top. I'd say the only players higher than Vince are Shaq, Kobe, AI and maybe T-MAC
> 
> Vince is a skiller basketball player who has been hurt by injuries lately, he may lack leadership, but his athletisism and ability to take over in the 4th quarter make up for that.
> ...


EXCELLENT point, well made. Why? I have used vacation/family time and money to see TMac, Vince, Kidd, etc. in person. Seeing them in person is so much better than the camera that doesn't show them all of the time!

Many non-rabid sports fans in general pay to see someone like Vince. BTW, the game I saw Ray Allen - he was 1/10 and that was a garbage bucket at the end of a loss to the Hawks a couple years ago - but the Big Dog was something to see in person - talk about a money mid-range shot!


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## buduan (Jun 10, 2002)

Where does he rank?

He doesn't.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>SkywalkerAC</b>!
> 
> 
> you really think so? i agree they are comparable but the raptors are horrible without vince.


Totally flase statement. They made the playoffs last year without Vince. They have won quite a few games without Vince. So please explain in further detail


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Louie</b>!
> List of league's top five swingmen, according to a writer for USA today (i think that was the newspaper):
> 1-Kobe
> 2-McGrady
> ...


Is Rose better than AI, Stack even Carter. No I dont think so. Is he even better than Ray Allen or Micheal finley. NOPE


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b></b>!
> Maybe it's just me but I look at the NBA as not only a sport but a business and therefore I rank Vince Carter right up there near the top. I'd say the only players higher than Vince are Shaq, Kobe, AI and maybe T-MAC
> 
> Vince is a skiller basketball player who has been hurt by injuries lately, he may lack leadership, but his athletisism and ability to take over in the 4th quarter make up for that.
> ...


Maybe better than T-MAC. You got to be kidding. Vince isnt half the defensive Player TMAC is. He dont pass nearly as much as TMAC does. TMAC is a much better post up player and the only thing Vince probably does better is Shoot the 3 and TMAC is improving in that area. As far as someone being seperated from other players because of marketability. No way just because a player may be more marketable than the next does that make him better. Got to do better than this


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## Shadows (Jun 8, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BEEZ</b>!
> 
> 
> Totally flase statement. They made the playoffs last year without Vince. They have won quite a few games without Vince. So please explain in further detail


Anyone who thinks the Raps are better without Vince on the floor has lost their mind. Yes they did make the playoffs in the final 20 games of the season without Vince, but let's not forget Vince was playing on one knee. Anyone who watched him play knew during that stretch he was not playing healthy, he was litterly scoring 18 points a game on one leg. Anyway during that stretch without Vince the Raps played and won against most of these teams.

Cleveland twice
Chicago twice
Atlanta 
Milwaukee 
Washington 
Miami twice
Indiana twice

Other then Indiana none of those teams were playoff teams last year. And the Pacers finished just barely over .500. Keon and AD were dominationg and Mop and AW were scoring above average. all of those games were very winable(sp?) without Vince.


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## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

I wouldn't even mention VC among the top 20 players today. Dude is quite simply a SOFT [strike]A** PU**Y[/strike]. Who in here can even stand and bare to watch VC play these days? Everytime he gets isolated, u would expect him to drive but NO, there goes an another MISSED fadeaway. VC just seems to lack the mentality, or the passion to be a top caliber today. He's no more exciting to watch, and has basically become a joke among nba fans these days. It would be a joke if he recieves the most votes for the all star game this year, just like last year was a joke.

This kind of profanity is not tolerated. Please dont do it again-BEEZ


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BEEZ</b>!
> 
> 
> Totally flase statement. They made the playoffs last year without Vince. They have won quite a few games without Vince. So please explain in further detail


no it wasn't a false statement. don't look at this team last year with the easiest of records because things have changed. when you look at the raptors without vince you see a good team??? no, they're an injury riddled, shell of a team. winning a couple games doesn't lead me to believe this is a good team when they're losing many more than they win. you'll have to explain in further detail here why you think this is a good team without VC.

why do i need to explain this to you? can you not look at this team and see it for what it is? look at their record...even with vince in the lineup for a few games, it is a bad record. they just don't have many weapons and no scoring punch. they have also allowed opponents one of the leagues highest fg%s. 
i'm not saying that vince can't any win with this team, even denver has won a few games. i just don't know how far he can take them and that definately hurts your status as a player. i already ran through their lineup but i'll add to it. currently they're missing a few bigs, lenard, murray, and JYD. they lost clark in the offseason which was obviously a huge loss. like i said, it's not a lot to work with.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

tonight's game versus the bulls is a decent test. lets see how vince and the raptors perform.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>SkywalkerAC</b>!
> tonight's game versus the bulls is a decent test. lets see how vince and the raptors perform.


Awww man the Bulls dont play D


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

i didn't call it a difficult test, just decent. every game is a test for carter and these raptors. carter should put up big numbers in games like this.


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