# Can Marbury still be a hall of famer?



## Pan Mengtu (Jun 18, 2004)

I'm not sure... maybe if he has a long career? Stays top3 PG well into his 30s and get in "the gary payton way"? So far, only 2 all star appearances...


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## Pan Mengtu (Jun 18, 2004)

And no one better mention his age, I realize. But he doesn't seem to still be getting better.


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## Drewbs (Feb 16, 2004)

I don't think so. I can't really imagine Marbury getting that much better. He is no where near what Gary Payton was, along with being an explosive scorer and good passer, he was probably the best defensive point guard ever.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

If the guy starts becoming a staple of playoff runs as the leader for the next 7-10 years, of course he will be considered. 

He probably won't make the HOF and IMO, if he doesn't, he will be one of the biggest wastes of talent the NBA has ever seen. All that talent and he can't win.


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## Pan Mengtu (Jun 18, 2004)

I doubt winning is given that much weight in the decision process. Marbury hasn't been on very many good teams. And I'm pretty sure Dominique Wilkins is in, isn't he?


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Pan Mengtu</b>!
> I doubt winning is given that much weight in the decision process. Marbury hasn't been on very many good teams. And I'm pretty sure Dominique Wilkins is in, isn't he?


As of today, Dominique Wilkins is not apart of the HOF. I doubt he ever will be quite frankly. If Adrian Dantley can't get in, I doubt he'll be in.


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## Tersk (Apr 9, 2004)

Marbury has career average of 20-8. Only the second PG 
(with O-Rob) to do so, but is that enough to get into the HOF. Hes got his team into the first round a few times but is that enough?


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## HeinzGuderian (Jun 29, 2004)

never


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## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

Well, he certainly has the stats to get into the HOF. If he keeps up his stats and wins a ring, he's a sure-fire HOF'er, IMO. If he keeps up his stats and gets some playoffs success, I still think he'll make the HOF. But if he continues putting up good stats on bad teams, I'm not too sure he will.

The man is averaging 20 and 8 for his career, one of only *two* players in NBA history to do so (the other being the Big O). You simply can't ignore that.

It all depends on where he can lead the Knicks.


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## Debt Collector (Mar 13, 2003)

if my man Bernard King aint in the hall of fame, Steph aint getting in either


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

Probably never, but he maybe he has learned a lot during this summer and will take that Athens experience and apply it on an NBA court. 

And Marbury isn't really even close to the same class as Payton. GP's a lock, Marbury is definitely not.


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## Pan Mengtu (Jun 18, 2004)

> As of today, Dominique Wilkins is not apart of the HOF. I doubt he ever will be quite frankly. If Adrian Dantley can't get in, I doubt he'll be in.


I don't want to get off topic, but when he's eligible you don't think he'll be in? I thought he's close to a lock.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Pan Mengtu</b>!
> 
> 
> I don't want to get off topic, but when he's eligible you don't think he'll be in? I thought he's close to a lock.


Amazingly enough, I think he should get in, but by the time he actually does, he will be what 60 or close to, if he ever does. The fact that he has an NBA front office job, will help him now, no question about it. 

How the Chief Robert Parish gets in over Dominque Wilkins is a mystery to me. However, it took George Gervin almost a decade to get in. Atlanta was a playoff team during the 80's, but only made the ECF's one year (lost heartbreaker to the Celtics). If Al Attles can get in, so should Dominique. I could say the same for Dantley and Alex English though. Hard to figure the selection committee.

Marbury without question has to win playoff rounds. He might not have to win a title, but he has to win playoff rounds. He has been in the league for 8 years, with no playoff series wins. He needs to get some (meaning a bunch).


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## Rafaelaraujotody (Jul 16, 2004)

hum... just thinking here... not about the topic tought... do you think Iverson and/or Kidd will be in HOF?


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Rafaelaraujotody</b>!
> hum... just thinking here... not about the topic tought... do you think Iverson and/or Kidd will be in HOF?


Kidd yes, but Iverson don't know. He did win an MVP so that will help him. If he plays at his level for another 4-5 years (he is a stone cold lock).


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## Pan Mengtu (Jun 18, 2004)

> hum... just thinking here... not about the topic tought... do you think Iverson and/or Kidd will be in HOF?


Iverson has an MVP award and went to 1 final = lock.

Kidd went to the finals 2 years in a row and has 5 all-nba first teams. Near a lock.


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## prjose (Aug 20, 2004)

Marbury is 27 lol you're gonna accually tell me hes not a HOF when he has a good 5 - 7 years left :laugh:  


Talk about a buch of Marbury haters


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## Tersk (Apr 9, 2004)

Ok, there's this thing on Basketball reference called HOF Monitor 

The best way to get into the HOF is to win an MVP. Every NBA player who has won an MVP is in the HOF. 85% of all players with a HOF Monitor score of 135 or more and are eligible are in the Hall of Fame. 99% of players with a score of 140 or greater and are eligible are in the Hall of Fame. 

The list of current NBA players who are over 135 points are:

1. Karl Malone 501
2. Tim Duncan 379
3. Shaquille O'neal 322
4. Kevin Garnett 245
5. Allen Iverson 206
6. Jason Kidd 191
7. Scottie Pippen 189
8. Gary Payton 167
9. Kobe Bryant 158
10. Chris Webber 130

(I just did top 10 chances)

Marbury has a score of 99. 

*Players with 135 or over who arent in the Hall of Fame* 
1. Paul Westphal 143
2. Dominique Wilkins 142
3. Artis Gilmore 140
4. Spencer Haywood 138
5. Bernard King 135

The formula for points is:
75 points for each NBA MVP award 
15 points for each All NBA First Team selection 
1 point for each point of NBA career Approximate Value and .33 points for each point of ABA career Approximate Value 
2.5 points for each point of NBA career Efficiency 
3.5 points for each NBA Championship 
-20 points for centers and -15 points for forwards

So I actually doubt Marbury will get in. But he has a chance 

*Players with less than 135 who are in* 
Gail Goodrich 134*
Hal Greer 130*
Lenny Wilkens 129*
Alex English 129*
David Thompson 128*
Nate Thurmond 128*
Bailey Howell 127*
Ed Macauley 127*
Earl Monroe 125*
Dan Issel 121*
Dave Debusschere 115*


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

I think Marbury *can* make the Hall of Fame.

I don't know that he's going to get better, game-wise, because he's not young enough to still be in his developmental years. He is just hitting his prime, however, so the best numbers of his career should come over the next 5-6 years.

He's a solid defender, an excellent play-maker, and a primetime scorer. To me, he's very much in the Isaiah Thomas mold, not the Gary Payton mold. Getting into the playoffs and doing damage deep will help with the fan perception, and maybe even a little with the voters...but I think voters will also give allowance for what he had to work with.

If Marbury finishes a 15-year career or so with numbers around his current career averages, I think he'll definitely make it in. If he also plays a few years with a good team and makes a few deep playoff appearances, that will make him even more of a lock.

But it'll be tough to keep his current numbers up, through his decline phase at the end of his career. He'll need a prime that lasts at least 5-6 more years, I think.

I think Marbury is one of the more gifted point guards ever to play the game. I don't think he's wasted his talent, I think he just hasn't had a chance to jell in a good situation. It was somewhat his fault in Minnesota that he lost the chance to team with Garnett for many years, but not his fault that a highly-promising situation in Phoenix was ended.


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## nyknicks888 (Oct 4, 2002)

> The best way to get into the HOF is to win an MVP. Every NBA player who has won an MVP is in the HOF. 85% of all players with a HOF Monitor score of 135 or more and are eligible are in the Hall of Fame. 99% of players with a score of 140 or greater and are eligible are in the Hall of Fame.



this following statement from that same website makes this HOF monitor all the less believable/accurate indication of a player's ability or chance to make it into the HOF.

"This score is not cumulative, so a player's score can decrease after bad or average seasons. "

If it isnt cumulative, then the opposite of this statement must also be true. Simple logic tells us that if he has a good season, his score will jump considerably. In the East, Marbury is from now on a sure lock in the All star game as long as fans have some say. Also, give the man some time as someone else has said. See what he does with the knicks. A few deep playoff runs and some more 20-8 seasons will give him a spot in the HOF.


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## Pan Mengtu (Jun 18, 2004)

> I think Marbury is one of the more gifted point guards ever to play the game. I don't think he's wasted his talent, I think he just hasn't had a chance to jell in a good situation. It was somewhat his fault in Minnesota that he lost the chance to team with Garnett for many years, but not his fault that a highly-promising situation in Phoenix was ended.


Well, it sort of was, wasn't it? He got traded for not playing a more traditional point guard role. They felt the future was with Amare as the centerpiece, but Marbury never wanted to yield his spot. It's hard to blame the guy for playing the game the way he plays it, but this has been an ongoing problem with Marbury.

I'm not sure if he _can_ jell on a team unless he's with no one but absolute roleplayers.


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## jokeaward (May 22, 2003)

Who knows what will happen, but he has the 20-8 and could definitely be one of the best PGs of his generation and the 2000's.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Pan Mengtu</b>!
> 
> Well, it sort of was, wasn't it? He got traded for not playing a more traditional point guard role. They felt the future was with Amare as the centerpiece, but Marbury never wanted to yield his spot.


I don't think that's the case, either that he was doing that or that that was Phoenix management's rationale. From their comments, they seemed to panic after a poor start (much of that time without Stoudemire) and decided to blow it up and retool young.



> It's hard to blame the guy for playing the game the way he plays it, but this has been an ongoing problem with Marbury.
> 
> I'm not sure if he _can_ jell on a team unless he's with no one but absolute roleplayers.


I disagree. He did well with Stoudemire and Marion, who weren't absolute role-players. Though just a rookie, Stoudemire was already their third option and main post presence. Marion was an established star. Marbury led that team to the playoffs and a great effort against the eventual NBA champion Spurs.

He meshed well with Kevin Garnett, also. He didn't leave due to any problems with playing with Garnett, he left because Minnesota gave Garnett an insane contract and then offered Marbury a below-market contract.

I think Marbury can succeed with a lot of types of teams. But he needs talent around him to win. So far, he's been on three talent-deprived teams, Minnesota (at the time, Garnett was no uber-star and they had little else), New Jersey and New York.

His one stop with some talent, the Suns, his team did better than expectations.

So holding lack of winning against him doesn't make sense. He's been in no good opportunity to win.


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## ballocks (May 15, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Minstrel</b>!
> So holding lack of winning against him doesn't make sense. He's been in no good opportunity to win.


i just don't know whether that matters. i'm no HOF expert, i think it's a bit silly to oversimplify entire careers (and establish some intangible criteria to allow for an achievement plaque) but with respect to this discussion, i don't know whether marbury's failure to put himself in the "right" situations (or _find_ himself in the right situations) can/will necessarily be overlooked.

if his teams continue to wallow in mediocrity (or worse), that almost certainly won't be excused. i'm not saying it _shouldn't_ be excused (not even saying that it should), only that it probably _won't_ (imo). if i had to hazard a prediction, i'd say that if marbury's career were to be completed without at least several moments of major success (regardless of reason), those perceived failures will indeed be "held against him" by the time his ballot is printed. 

i think the HOF is an oversimplified mark of performance already, and so it follows (intuitively) that our judges would use oversimplified _criteria_ (such as team success) to determine who is and isn't qualified for induction. i don't think inferior surrounding casts are ever legitimate excuses in and of themselves- regardless of _how_ inferior they are. in that sense, good fortune (/misfortune) appears to continue to play a vital role in any player's HOF "destiny".

peace


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## Tersk (Apr 9, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Pan Mengtu</b>!
> 
> 
> I don't want to get off topic, but when he's eligible you don't think he'll be in? I thought he's close to a lock.


Nique is already eligible


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> 
> 
> Amazingly enough, I think he should get in, but by the time he actually does, he will be what 60 or close to, if he ever does. The fact that he has an NBA front office job, will help him now, no question about it.
> ...


Dominque retired in 99... you have to be retired 5 years to get in the hall, so he has only been turned down once. No doubt I'm sure he'll be in less than 3 years. Alex English is in the hall after all.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ballocks</b>!
> 
> if i had to hazard a prediction, i'd say that if marbury's career were to be completed without at least several moments of major success (regardless of reason), those perceived failures will indeed be "held against him" by the time his ballot is printed.


You may be right and your comment that the Hall is already an oversimplified mark may be true. But the thing to remember is that the Hall is for individual achievement. Therefore, lack of team achievement may be looked at a bit differently.


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## The True Essence (May 26, 2003)

you guys are way too hard on steph not winning a playoff series. Jason Kidd never passed the first round til he was 30. marburys 27.

hes also the first guy since oscar robertson to have career averages of 20 points and 8 dimes.

im real critical of marburys game, especially since he came to the knicks. alot of people actually think i hate him. but the winning will probably happen sooner then later. he still has alot of years left to win some games, and i think he could do it.


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## JerryWest (Jun 24, 2002)

Yup, I definately think he can, especially if he can get the Knicks to the eastern conference finals.

Contrary to what are others are saying, I don't think he is wasting his talent. He just needs a better team around him.

I think Iverson is a definate lock for the Hall of Fame, both he and Kidd will probably make it. Iverson has changed the landscape of the NBA and is the leader of his franchise. He has carried them to the finals but has never had a good enough 2nd option around him.


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## Ghost (Jun 21, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>theo4002</b>!
> Ok, there's this thing on Basketball reference called HOF Monitor
> 
> The best way to get into the HOF is to win an MVP. Every NBA player who has won an MVP is in the HOF. 85% of all players with a HOF Monitor score of 135 or more and are eligible are in the Hall of Fame. 99% of players with a score of 140 or greater and are eligible are in the Hall of Fame.
> ...


How can they list Allen Iverson over John Stockton?


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## Rafaelaraujotody (Jul 16, 2004)

> Ok, there's this thing on Basketball reference called HOF Monitor
> 
> The best way to get into the HOF is to win an MVP. Every NBA player who has won an MVP is in the HOF. 85% of all players with a HOF Monitor score of 135 or more and are eligible are in the Hall of Fame. 99% of players with a score of 140 or greater and are eligible are in the Hall of Fame.
> 
> ...


Gotta say it... great topic man... I love statistcs... 5 stars for this one... even tought this star thing is BS.. :grinning:


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## jokeaward (May 22, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>#1Stunna</b>!
> 
> 
> How can they list Allen Iverson over John Stockton?


Not that many players score 30+ PPG and win MVPs, at any percentage. It's hard to score 30 PPG.

Minstrel, don't forget Googs at his best, but you can have your opinion.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>jokeaward</b>!
> 
> Minstrel, don't forget Googs at his best, but you can have your opinion.


True. Minnesota still wasn't considered a good or talented team back then.


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