# Marion: The Whiner



## Seuss (Aug 19, 2005)

> The Suns aren’t thrilled, however, with Shawn Marion, the businessman, and that’s why the Marion for Andrei Kirilenko trade rumor can’t be summarily dismissed.
> 
> The Suns don’t want to trade Marion. They know their best chance to win a championship this season is to keep the Marion-Steve Nash-Amaré Stoudemire triumvirate together.
> 
> ...


READ

I think all Suns fans are annoyed by Marion's complaining. Part of me hopes we don't resign him and allow him to go play for a .500. team, for 10 mil a year. Just to let him know how fortunate the Suns were to him.


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## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

.....he needs to retire a Suns......he needs to retire a Sun......
(I am really tired of saying this)


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## bircan (Jul 17, 2005)

wow, that is so unfortunate for us. I wasn't expecting this kind of news. Though I guess this is also partly a rumor? If Marion does really think he is disrespected and all that jazz, being jealous of nash and amare, then we have some serious problems.

This team without marion will be very different. We would have big gaps to fill. At the same time, I'm sure most fans dont appreciate this kind of talk from the matrix (if it is indeed true).


Now the wait for the new season gets more intense. What is the next step, we can only wait and see


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

IMO I think this whole thing gets blown out of proportion. 

It's hasn't hurt the Suns on the court AT ALL. 


And Marion is smart enough to know his limits. He won't opt out of 17M and play for a .500 team or worse. Then he knows he basically has to start over. He didn't wanna do that this summer when the Boston/Minn deal was being discussed.


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## Arclite (Nov 2, 2002)

I remember in the Marbury era (the dark ages as I call them) he was generally the fan favorite.. The constant cry-babying, complaining and routine big-game disappearing acts year after year changed that around 180 degrees though for the most part.

AK has had a rough couple years lately, but if we could get him, Millsap and a pick out of Utah for Marion I'd do it in a heartbeat.. having Millsap would shore up our big man rotation no questions asked, and whatever we lose from Marion offensively with AK in there can be more than made up just as, if not more efficiently, with as many weapons as we've got.


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## Zei_Zao_LS (Apr 1, 2005)

Actually been thinking about what exactly we *could* get out of Marion, were we to finally decide to trade him. I figure I'll be doing an article about it before too long... I'll let everybody know when/if I do.


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## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

Arclite said:


> I remember in the Marbury era (the dark ages as I call them) he was generally the fan favorite.. The constant cry-babying, complaining and routine big-game disappearing acts year after year changed that around 180 degrees though for the most part.
> 
> AK has had a rough couple years lately, but if we could get him, Millsap and a pick out of Utah for Marion I'd do it in a heartbeat.. having Millsap would shore up our big man rotation no questions asked, and whatever we lose from Marion offensively with AK in there can be more than made up just as, if not more efficiently, with as many weapons as we've got.


 We got rid of Marbury because we had an oppourtunity to get rid of Hardaway's contract AND Colangelo has a zero tolerance policy for police trouble with his players.

As for Marbury coming up short....
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Marion should retire a Sun because too few players play their entire career with one team and when a player has played 8+ seasons with a team, it should become that team's responsibility to try and keep him, especially if that player is one of the best to ever play for the franchise.


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## Arclite (Nov 2, 2002)

I meant that Marion was the fan favorite during the Marbury era. Sorry, didn't really phrase that correctly.


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## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

Arclite said:


> I meant that Marion was the fan favorite during the Marbury era. Sorry, didn't really phrase that correctly.


ah, gotcha. Makes more sense, but I'm still a fan of him and he deserves KG rep.


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## Ras (Jul 25, 2005)

IceMan23and3 said:


> ah, gotcha. Makes more sense, but I'm still a fan of him and he deserves KG rep.


What exactly do you mean by "KG rep?"


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## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

Ras said:


> What exactly do you mean by "KG rep?"


The same reputation that you give KG, Marion should get. Marion is almost as valuable to a team as KG.


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## Zei_Zao_LS (Apr 1, 2005)

IceMan23and3 said:


> The same reputation that you give KG, Marion should get. Marion is almost as valuable to a team as KG.


We're going to have to agree to disagree on that one.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

IceMan23and3 said:


> The same reputation that you give KG, Marion should get. Marion is almost as valuable to a team as KG.


The wolves would have won a total of 45 games the past 3 seasons with Marion as their franchise player


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## Ras (Jul 25, 2005)

IceMan23and3 said:


> The same reputation that you give KG, Marion should get. Marion is almost as valuable to a team as KG.


I'd like to see you defend that claim.


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## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

Ras said:


> I'd like to see you defend that claim.


 Only he and KG are Top 25 in 7 categories.


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## Zei_Zao_LS (Apr 1, 2005)

The only things Marion is better at than KG, realistically, are stealing and three point shooting. K.G. is one of the most complete players in the history of the league. He can do everything, and do it well. On top of which, he doesn't cause chemistry problems or moan about perceived slights.

I love Shawn, but he's no where near the talent level that K.G. is.


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## Ras (Jul 25, 2005)

IceMan23and3 said:


> Only he and KG are Top 25 in 7 categories.


That hardly tells the whole story. Zei Zao LS put it best, "he's nowhere near the talent level KG is."


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## Zei_Zao_LS (Apr 1, 2005)

Did an article on Shawn... not what I originally had in mind, but this was considerably more appealing. Rather than try to gain insight on what we could trade Shawn for, it's just a bit of an examination on how Shawn plays the game, and how he fits into the spectrum of NBA players.

http://phoenixsunsrising.blogspot.com/2007/09/marion-paradox.html


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## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

He doesn't botch dunks.

Marion survives in a realm most players can't. We're seeing that with Kirilenko. Marion gets his points from busting his ***. Marion gets his rebounds by wanting them more. We saw what he can do when he is more of a focal point in the 2005-06 season in which he posted 22ppg 12rpg 2spg 1.7bpg 1.8apg. Yet even with those numbers, he wasn't on an NBA Defensive Team. The man that is claimed to be the best defender on the Suns team, defending the 1-5 spots isn't on an ALL NBA Defensive Team?!? He has a right to say "**** you" to all of those sportscasters and fans that overlook his immense talents.

KG is the center of a team, Marion is a peripheral player and yet he puts up numbers that are elite. Players like Marion win you championships. He doesn't have high assist numbers because he never has the ball in his hands! His crossover is very good, he's just trained to take advantage of other parts of the game. He isn't a selfish player. He just wants the respect he is owed. The fact that in every trade season that his name is the trading chip that Phoenix has is an insult! Phoenix is looking to trade Marion every season it seems like even though they aren't! That's disrespectful to him and his value to the organization saying that the Suns would be better off with any all star player other than him. 

I just don't understand why his "whining" isn't justified. No one seems to give a **** that he's a 20-10 player who is undersized and doesn't dominate the ball, thus facilitating another two 20ppg players to play along side him. The Suns had 5 guys average more than 14ppg last season, which was the first time since the Showtime Lakers did so in 1983 and that was with 4 HOF players on their roster. 

Give Marion his respect. The Suns don't win when Marion doesn't play. They do when Amare doesn't. Think about that.


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## Zei_Zao_LS (Apr 1, 2005)

IceMan23and3 said:


> He doesn't botch dunks.
> 
> Marion survives in a realm most players can't. We're seeing that with Kirilenko. Marion gets his points from busting his ***. Marion gets his rebounds by wanting them more. We saw what he can do when he is more of a focal point in the 2005-06 season in which he posted 22ppg 12rpg 2spg 1.7bpg 1.8apg. Yet even with those numbers, he wasn't on an NBA Defensive Team. The man that is claimed to be the best defender on the Suns team, defending the 1-5 spots isn't on an ALL NBA Defensive Team?!? He has a right to say "**** you" to all of those sportscasters and fans that overlook his immense talents.
> 
> ...


You honestly don't remember any of the times that Marion goes up for a dunk or a lay up and the ball flies out of his hands so fast that it's hard to see how he can be doing it on accident? Corey Maggette does the same thing.

The point is that he's such a great role player that he's a superstar. But in the end, he well and truly is a role player. He's never going to be able to be the centerpiece to a team, he doesn't have the appropriate skills to do so. And yet, through all of this, he feels like he deserves every accolade he can get his hands on.

This is compounded by the fact that, when he's having a bad game, he's having a *really* bad game. There doesn't seem to be a whole lot of middle ground with Shawn. You get a disciplined defender to watch him as he darts around and doesn't run off after every offensive board, you get a very depleted Marion. If he's not scoring, the rest of his game falls off dramatically. It's unfortunate, because the rest of his game is what makes him special.

What makes Amare more important than Shawn to our team is that he's a true scoring option, he can bang in the paint and grab rebounds with consistency (Shawn reads bounces and goes after the ball. Amare boxes out and then worries about chasing it. Well... sometimes.) And, most importantly, Amare turns his game up dramatically in the playoffs.


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## Ras (Jul 25, 2005)

Zei_Zao_LS said:


> You honestly don't remember any of the times that Marion goes up for a dunk or a lay up and the ball flies out of his hands so fast that it's hard to see how he can be doing it on accident? Corey Maggette does the same thing.
> 
> The point is that he's such a great role player that he's a superstar. *But in the end, he well and truly is a role player. He's never going to be able to be the centerpiece to a team, he doesn't have the appropriate skills to do so. *And yet, through all of this, he feels like he deserves every accolade he can get his hands on.
> 
> ...


That's what I was getting at. He's a phenomenal role player, and the fact that he can be a 20/10 player without dominating the ball is just wonderful. But, he doesn't have the skill set to have a team built around him. He's a phenomenal, all-star role player, but he's just that, a role player. He's not a franchise player.


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