# Why the USA lost and why they will win in 08!



## One on One (Dec 12, 2004)

Other contributing factors:

- Lebron still thinks he's a bulldozer
- When the going gets tough, resort to streetball.


----------



## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

We haven't won an international competition since 2000. 6 years ago. If we bring Kobe, we have to leave Lebron home, simple as that, and I have no problem with it, Lebron's too mentally weak. Kobe is going to be the leader of the team, and knows how to handle the adversity and hate better than anyone. He cares about winning more than anyone in the league, hopefully he has a good effect on the team, but still, we haven't won one of these things in 6 years, so I'm not going to proclaim us as the favorites to win it next year, especially if this was any indication, and we have NO offensive set again.


----------



## Big Mike (Jun 7, 2005)

How can a selfish ballhog make a difference?


----------



## raptorsrule15 (Jul 4, 2003)

^cus that selfish ballhog's name is Kobe Bryant!


----------



## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

Kobe is not the best example of someone to add to the team to make them play better together, but he is a guy who will make big plays with and without the ball, will not let the team fall asleep during these big stretches, and will re-establish some of the fear other teams have, or used to have. 

Carmelo had some of the guys on Greece shook. I was watching the game film and the guys on Greece were throwing their hands up in disgust when Melo kept scoring on them. I can only imagine the frustration of Kobe doing that to them even more severe. Psychological dominance as well as physical dominance is important.


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Why are we leaving the guy who was willing to subjugate his scoring for the sake of the team...for a guy who has the reputation of being a ballhog?

You guys don't make any sense. If you think we needed a better scorer, then you should swap Kobe with Melo, because Melo's role was as our scorer.

Some of you guys are obviously not watching these games.

Anyways. I was excited to see Kobe and Lebron on the same team. Still am. Their games and mindset compliment each other, I think they can make each other better. Kobe is a finisher, and Lebron is a creator. And either one can switch those roles at the drop of a hat.

I like pairing Melo and Wade on one unit, and then Kobe and Bron on the other.


----------



## Big Mike (Jun 7, 2005)

raptorsrule15 said:


> ^cus that selfish ballhog's name is Kobe Bryant!


No I like Kobe

I like Arenas

I like AI

but they're not players you need on the team. You need players that will sacrafice their games for sake of the team, not even Bron, Melo or Wade did that and it showed in the Semis. Its too much focus for star players for the U.S. instead of total team effort. Get rid of the Star players and bring in the American guys that accually knows how to play International basketball, you know the ones that accually played overseas.


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

What are you TALKING about!? Will people stop posting who didn't even watch the games? What the hell? Lebron and Wade didn't change their games for the betterment of the team? What are you smoking?

And why are the second and third leading scorers, and our leader in assists for the game getting all the blame? The only really consistently bad thing Lebron did was clang all his free throws today. Which he is prone to do in the NBA. But he still finished with 17, 5, 5 and was making an effort to create for others. I think Wade did 19, 3, 2. Hinrich and Paul had something like 3 combined assists.

Greece played a great game. And we had no pick and roll defense implemented. Our coaches never found the adjustment defensively and Greece had their best offensive game of the tournament.

One thing I really do want to see though is an actual big man on this team besides Howard. Somebody who can intimidate in the paint, and consistently rebound. So hopefully Oden pans out.

One thing nobody has ever touched on, but it is true, our decline in international basketball has coincided with the decline of the American Center. We haven't carried a true center on the team since Shaq. People don't really think about it, but against some teams we have been badly outsized in the paint.

So here's to Oden.

You guys can talk about Kobe, but I think Oden might be the final piece of the puzzle.


----------



## Roscoe Sheed (Jun 19, 2006)

why did brand only shoot the ball twice? I didn't watch the game but it seems Bron, Wade, and Melo dominated the ball too much


----------



## Big Mike (Jun 7, 2005)

futuristxen said:


> What are you TALKING about!? Will people stop posting who didn't even watch the games? What the hell? Lebron and Wade didn't change their games for the betterment of the team? What are you smoking?
> 
> And why are the second and third leading scorers, and our leader in assists for the game getting all the blame? The only really consistently bad thing Lebron did was clang all his free throws today. Which he is prone to do in the NBA. But he still finished with 17, 5, 5 and was making an effort to create for others. I think Wade did 19, 3, 2. Hinrich and Paul had something like 3 combined assists.
> 
> ...


Futur, Listen. The big 3 from 03 was the biggest hype thing in this tournament this summer. All you heard was Lebron this, Wade this and Carmelo that and the fact after all the hype they didnt deliver. Face it US lost, their the captian's they should be held somewhat accountable for U.S failures. I recognize you as a Lebron Homer but he like the rest of the US squad sucks at FIBA ball at crunch time.

Edit: what part of their game did they sacrafice, they were the biggest gunners on the team.


----------



## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

Big Mike said:


> Futur, Listen. The big 3 from 03 was the biggest hype thing in this tournament this summer. All you heard was Lebron this, Wade this and Carmelo that and the fact after all the hype they didnt deliver. Face it US lost, their the captian's they should be held somewhat accountable for U.S failures. I recognize you as a Lebron Homer but he like the rest of the US squad sucks at FIBA ball at crunch time.
> 
> Edit: what part of their game did they sacrafice, they were the biggest gunners on the team.


Well fact of the matter is none of the big three are good captains, they are just good captains in a gimmick sense. I say hand this team over to Kobe Bryant, make him the captain. He is the most talented guard in the world, has the best winning mentality in the world, and just doesn't give up. Like look at the coverage, there is no media hate on Lebron, Wade or anything, no scapegoat. But come 2008, with Kobe on the team, no one will have a bigger media bullseye on them than Kobe will have. If USA loses in 2008, all things get blamed on Kobe, its Kobe's fault for war in the middle east, its kobe's fault for AIDS, its Kobe's fault for the Bubonic plague, its all Kobe's fault that Team USA lost. No one stands to lose more than Kobe does, make him the captain, and he'll be the best possible leader for this team.


----------



## RomaVictor (Feb 16, 2004)

futuristxen said:


> One thing nobody has ever touched on, but it is true, our decline in international basketball has coincided with the decline of the American Center. We haven't carried a true center on the team since Shaq. People don't really think about it, but against some teams we have been badly outsized in the paint.


Oh trust, me futurist, in conversations "in real world" i've been harping on this. The reasons the US could just throw together a squad is that we had the likes of Ewing, Olajuwon, Robinson, Shaq and a healthy Mourning on our frontlines. Whenever the shots weren't falling, we'd just work it inside. I saw a game tape from the WC in 1994 and Shaq was just KILLING those guys. 

Also, people forget that our first few NBA teams were manned by EXPERIENCED players either in their prime or just past it but often with extensive playoff minutes in their careers.

Plus, there's just no way a team with a frontline rotation of say, Olajuwon, Robinson, Barkley, Malone and Shaq loses--not with American wing players.

I will say that some critical coaching moves may have swung the balance in our favor enough to grab us the gold this time out, just like in the Olympics in 2004. Not BLAMING coaching as much as pointing to the fact that unlike 1992 we NEED some timely decisions to help a young squad.


----------



## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

It looks like Kobe should be holding a plaque with a number on it in that photo...Maybe turn left and give us a profile too.


----------



## jordan0386 (Jul 4, 2006)

Sir Patchwork said:


> Kobe is not the best example of someone to add to the team to make them play better together, *but he is a guy who will make big plays with and without the ball, will not let the team fall asleep during these big stretches, and will re-establish some of the fear other teams have, or used to have. *
> 
> Carmelo had some of the guys on Greece shook. I was watching the game film and the guys on Greece were throwing their hands up in disgust when Melo kept scoring on them. I can only imagine the frustration of Kobe doing that to them even more severe. Psychological dominance as well as physical dominance is important.


he may not be the best example...but he sure makes a damn good case lmao


----------



## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

I still would like to see them send a bigger team. As well as Kirk and Paul played, I just always felt they were a liability on the court. 

PG Dwayne Wade, Joe Johnson
SG Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, Michael Redd
SF Melo, Shane Battier
PF Bosh, Brand, Amare
C Howard, Oden


----------



## One on One (Dec 12, 2004)

Let's see how Lebron likes coming off the bench...he will be exposed! The bottom line is you aren't going to win with pure athleticism which is why you need the athleticism and finesse that Kobe combines so brilliantly. There's very few guys in the NBA who play "smooth" and athletic....Kobe, Ray Allen, maybe a few other guys. The US team is nice but Wade and Lebron are relying on athleticism too much. It would be nice to actually have them play as a team, but that ain't gonna happen so you need the savior, Kobe to come and do his thing. International basketball is more like soccer...you make moves to set up your teammates and you just end up scoring, you don't make moves to score...USA won't learn this in 2 more years, they haven't in the last 6.


----------



## Auggie (Mar 7, 2004)

why not keep the same team? the talent and potential is there, they just need to get used to playing with each other


----------



## s a b a s 11 (Dec 31, 2002)

Ok, Kobe Bryant is an amazing player... but explain to me how a player that has never played college ball (which is the closest to international style of play) benefit the US team? There are enough amazing one-on-one scorers on the team in Wade and Lebron and others... but those guys sacrificed enough to pull off the bronze. Some of you guys don't realize that international ball isn't about having the most talented players (which the US has) but its more about familiarity and a strong style of play. Simply putting together a bunch of great players will get you a long way, but it's not going to guarantee victory every time... and especially with the progression of international basketball, the disparity in talent between the US and world gets smaller... so hoping to shove 12 players together for 2 months every 1-2 years with no practice isn't going to get the job done. Thats why Coach K and Colangelo are looking for three-year commitments, they understand that we can no longer overwhelm opponents with talent, athleticism, and abiltiy... it's going to take some discipline and sacrifice.

I'm proud of the US and their placing, they're finally on the right track. The US just played a strong, poised and disciplined greek team that shot the lights out... 

Stuart


----------



## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

Yes Kobe Bryant is the answer. I been saying it all along. Kobe is the best player in the world, and in the game of basketball today period. Already other great players such as Dirk, and LeBron have come out and said this very same thing. It's great to see others here at bbb.net come around to the same conclusion after watching LeBron, Wade, and Melo give us another 3rd rate finish.


*Dirk on Kobe*

In German:
Sport1: Woran hat es bei den Amerikanern gehapert?

Nowitzki: Bitter war, dass Kobe Bryant sich verletzt hat. Dessen Präsenz hätte allein schon gereicht, um das Turnier zu gewinnen. Auf diesem Niveau sehe ich ihn. Für mich ist er derzeit der beste Spieler der Welt. Der kennt so was wie Angst gar nicht. Das ist dem alles egal. Der hätte das im Alleingang für die Amis gewonnen.

Translation:
Sport1: What did the Americans lack?

Nowitzki: It was bitter that Kobe Bryant got injured. His presence alone would have been enough to win the tournament. That's the level I see him on. To me he is the best player in the world right now. That guy doesn't know fear at all. He doesn't care. He would have won it for the Americans single-handedly

*LeBron on Kobe*

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/4wRZmwfy3ms"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/4wRZmwfy3ms" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

One on One said:


> Let's see how Lebron likes coming off the bench...he will be exposed! The bottom line is you aren't going to win with pure athleticism which is why you need the athleticism and finesse that Kobe combines so brilliantly. There's very few guys in the NBA who play "smooth" and athletic....Kobe, Ray Allen, maybe a few other guys. The US team is nice but Wade and Lebron are relying on athleticism too much. It would be nice to actually have them play as a team, but that ain't gonna happen so you need the savior, Kobe to come and do his thing. International basketball is more like soccer...you make moves to set up your teammates and you just end up scoring, you don't make moves to score...USA won't learn this in 2 more years, they haven't in the last 6.


Lebron creates for others better than any american. Athletic nothing. Pass pass pass. He threw all the best passes in the tournament. Finding people who didn't even know they were open. And before you claim he also threw the worst passes, that honor actually goes to Kirk Hinrich, who I believe chucked the ball into the stands a few times.

Who honestly cares if Wade and Lebron are in your opinion relying on athleticism? The question is whether it was effective or not. And the answer is that it was. Both in FIBA and the NBA.

Kobe's competition is Melo, because thats' the guy who plays the role Kobe will play.

Why is it so hard for you to understand the roles on this team?

And your final assertion is laughably sad. We haven't learned in 6 years? We only lost 1 game this tournament, which was an improvement on the last six years, and our margin of victory also improved. You're just saying things, when it's clear you don't bother to wake up and watch the games. Which is insulting to those of us who bother to watch and analyze these games. 

You want to send two of the best players in american basketball home? Two of the best players on the team home? Two of the best performers in the last two competitions, home?

I'm so glad you're not Jerry Colengelo. Your ideas would ruin USA basketball. It would make the Bronze Medal a pipe dream.


----------



## pac4eva5 (Dec 29, 2005)

i agree with whoever said we need to get bigger. paul and kirk were terrible...

i still think bron should play PG. let him carry the damn ball up the cort and create for the other guys. obviously he couldnt do this if chauncey comes back too, but thats fine.

he would be perfect with kobe who can play w/o the ball. im a bit confused why everybody thinks hes a ball hog. ball hogs are dribblers. hes more of a chucker than anything, and a pretty damn good chucker at that!

linups of bron/kobe and wade/melo teaming up would be dominant!

*Dream lineups*
C- camby C-amare
PF- howard PF- marion
SF- bron SF- melo
SG- kobe SG- wade
SG- redd PG- billups


----------



## s a b a s 11 (Dec 31, 2002)

23AJ said:


> Yes Kobe Bryant is the answer. I been saying it all along. Kobe is the best player in the world, and in the game of basketball today period. Already other great players such as Dirk, and LeBron have come out and said this very same thing. It's great to see others here at bbb.net come around to the same conclusion after watching LeBron, Wade, and Melo give us another 3rd rate finish.


Well, thats objective. As is your avatar and signature.

So adding Kobe automatically makes them gold medalists? What could he have added that wasn't provided already? You already have swingmen Carmelo, Wade and LeBron scoring 20+, 19, and 15 ppg shooting well-over 50% from the field. It's not a lack of talent fella, that's a path a lot of people continue to cross. It's the lack of a style of play and defensive/offensive teamwork that only comes with time and playing with each other. 

I still think the US has the most talented players in the world, but that can only get you past the mediocre teams. You can't hope to overwhelm all your opponents by throwing together 12 guys for 1.5 months, the world is getting better with each word we type. It's a blessing to the US to have lost in 2002 and 2004, otherwise we'd still be under the illusion that the world is afraid of us and that they clamor for photos and autographs after the game... thats not the reality. I thought the lost to the Greeks, who have not one NBA player on a current roster would open up eyes... I think it did, but it still amazes me that people still think that one player here and there can make the difference.

Thats the thinking that got us where we are now.

Stuart


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

s a b a s 11 said:


> but it still amazes me that people still think that one player here and there can make the difference.


Me too. I think adding a few players will make us better, but the main thing is just continuity and continuing to build team chemistry. This was the best team we've had in a long while in terms of playing together, they just need to keep at it.


----------



## 23isback (Mar 15, 2006)

also because we have no consistent three point shooters (no allen, redd, hamilton even etc).


----------



## s a b a s 11 (Dec 31, 2002)

futuristxen said:


> This was the best team we've had in a long while in terms of playing together, they just need to keep at it.


That's something I forgot to add in my post. This is the most cohesive nba-player team we've had in about a decade, I was proud of how they played and Carmelo really opened up my eyes. I think, for as awesome as Lebron and Dwight Howard are, they seemed to lack the intensity on defense. Hopefully that is something that will show it's face next time around.

Stuart


----------



## Pain5155 (May 28, 2006)

stop blaming the loss on the pick and roll, how cant u guard that? these are NBA players who have to know how to guard the pick and roll. Therers no excuses to losing to a team with no players in the NBA. END OF DISCUSSION.


----------



## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

s a b a s 11 said:


> Well, thats objective. As is your avatar and signature.
> 
> *interesting enough you bring up the fact I like Kobe Bryant in your initial post to in some way discredit me. Yet I don't see you doing that to all the LeBron/Wade/Melo fans. By the way wich I am one of.*
> 
> ...


..


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

It should be noted the only reason Kobe wasn't on this team this time around was because he decided to wait until the last minute to have minor knee surgery.

I really respect Lebron, Melo, and Wade, because they are superstars, and yet they still will go out and represent our country, even after all the awful things people said about them after Athens. And they'll do it again in Beijing despite all of the things being said about them.

People talk about how awful this generation is, but I think it was the last generation that earned that rep. This current generation is unselfish and wants to do things bigger then themselves.

It's a shame they can't get respect for that.


----------



## bballlife (Oct 5, 2003)

futuristxen said:


> It should be noted the only reason Kobe wasn't on this team this time around was because he decided to wait until the last minute to have minor knee surgery.


You're funny. He struggled all last season with his knees, then decided to see if a little rest would help once the season was over. As I understand it, he began workouts and it started back up again and he decided the minor surgery was necessary.

Don' t make it sound like he jumped ship on team usa.


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

bballlife said:


> You're funny. He struggled all last season with his knees,


You're funny. If it was that serious of a problem he would have gotten the surgery sooner. It's like Shaq's big toe all over again.


----------

