# More on NY/Chicago/Crawford



## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/story/129598p-115855c.html 



> Chicago is trying to move small forward Donyell Marshall, who would give the Knicks size and scoring. Crawford can play either guard position, but his erratic play has frustrated the Bulls. The team would consider trading the 23-year-old Crawford but not for Harrington.





> The Knicks have intensified their search to add a scorer after the Chicago Bulls rejected a deal earlier in the week that would have brought Jamal Crawford to New York, according to an Eastern Conference official



Are you guys buying this stuff? Would Paxson really trade JC this quick? I realize JC for Harrington is nuts but is the team really considering trading him as article stats? Would we be okay with Pippen,Hinrich, and Mason Jr as our PG's? I may not be the biggest JC fan but this stuff still worries me.


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## RSP83 (Nov 24, 2002)

I hope Pax is not going to trade JC.

What have JC done wrong? JC is ready for a breakout season with the Bulls. We don't want to trade another Elton Brand .. and he's a very capable PG.


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## robert60446 (Nov 11, 2002)

I’m in deep shock! People from the board know me as “Jamal hater”, but trading Crawford for garbage is madness for me. Crawford can play for the Bulls; he can be (he is) a very good material for shooting guard. My opinion, trades Rose and leave Jamal alone!


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## settinUpShop (Jun 8, 2002)

The article states that Paxson turned down the trade with JC in it. So why all the big fuss. He's not going anywhere.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>settinUpShop</b>!
> The article states that Paxson turned down the trade with JC in it. So why all the big fuss. He's not going anywhere.





> *The team would consider trading the 23-year-old Crawford but not for Harrington.*


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## Lizzy (May 28, 2002)

The New York papers always say we're trading players. Remember the Rose trades?

It looks like Pax wanted to make a trade w/ NY but when they asked about Jamal he said No.


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## FJ_of _Rockaway (May 28, 2002)

Bogus unsubstantiated beat writer's wet dream that can't cope with the fact that the Knicks as currently constructed will blow mightily

In this league everybody bat half a dozen players are tradeable

And because people are knocking on your door asking about one of your boys doesn't mean they are on the block

Jamal is an important part of this season - its his chance once and for all


Relax

Plus - I still say Van Exel is a Knick by Christmas

and Van Gundy comes back 

Van Exel Van Gundy and Van Horn... wow these guys will have more Vans than U Haul


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Lizzy</b>!
> The New York papers always say we're trading players. Remember the Rose trades?
> 
> It looks like Pax wanted to make a trade w/ NY but when they asked about Jamal he said No.


Nice way to try to dance around it, but that was Vecesy who has a very public beef with Rose.

There's no such thing here with Crawford. This is just news.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

Put another way:

Krause used to say no one is untouchable but MJ


Pax has put it out that no one is untouchable but the two big men


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

> It is believed talks fizzled when Knicks general manager Scott Layden inquired about Jamal Crawford, whose salary is similar to Harrington's


So KC pretty strongly implies he believes *Paxson pulled back* when *Crawford's name was brought up by Layden*.

I don't know how much more explicit he has to be to get people not to believe what they want to believe.

And further, I don't see why it's news that Crawford is tradeable in the right deal. If anything, it should be good news that the right deal isn't for Othella Harrington in Paxson's eyes.

Now if they're willing to talk Kurt Thomas and maybe taking on ERob for an expiring deal, then maybe there's something to talk about. But Layden's a nutball. He's not going to offer anything attractive


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## Lizzy (May 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>GB</b>!
> 
> 
> Nice way to try to dance around it, but that was Vecesy who has a very public beef with Rose.
> ...


I'm not dancing around anything. The NY papers have posted many rumors that never came to fruition. It's like Sam Smith over there.


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## JRose5 (May 4, 2003)

I like JC alot, but I guess I wouldn't mind moving him *if* it was for someone worth it.

In other words, not Othello Harrington.


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## Bulls42 (Jul 22, 2002)

*Layden is nuts*

He has been trying to get Curry/Chandler from us in exchange for his garbage. No thanks pal. The only player I would take from the Knicks is Kurt Thomas- a 4/5.
I would give them Donyell - a 3/4. However, Donyell can put up huge rebounding numbers, but I would prefer Thomas since we have many SF's and only have Blount at back-up center.


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## Jim Ian (Aug 6, 2002)

How is this so much different then the story around draft time that Paxon was trying to move from #7 to #3? Pax offered JWill and the #7, but Kiki wanted Chandler instead. What happens? It's too much=Deal dies.

This is the same thing. Layden asked for too much and the deal died. The Knicks don't have a thing on thier roster worth Crawford, so the deal died. End of story. Negotiations Over.


And to touch on an earlier point, EVERYONE on the Bulls, like it or not, it tradable (for the right price). As much as I love the 3C's, and believe me that's a lot, I would have to at least listen to offers. Hell, If you can turn the 3C's into Kidd, Pierce, Tmac, Duncan and Pau Gasol or something crazy insane like that... You have to listen. HOWEVER, there isn't a _chance in hell_ of that happening, so don't worry about it. Curry, Crawford and Chandler will be Bulls for a long time.


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## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

Jim Ian I think you are right a potential deal with NY is prolly dead and buried. But I think it is safe to say Pax is doing everything he can to acquire via trade a hard nosed rebounding defensive backup center prior to the start of the season. If he does not accomplish that by then you can bet he will try again come February and either Fizer or Marshall will be saying au revoir.


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## Kismet (Mar 1, 2003)

I did a little checking...some of you guys are right on target. It was NY who brought up Crawford's name and that ended negotiations almost immediately. From what I hear at this time, JC's going nowhere, period, end of story. Sure, over time circumstances can always change. But at this moment Crawford isn't being shopped and the Bulls are commited to him as their starting point guard.


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## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

Thanks Kismet. Here is Chad Ford's take on this whole JC for Harrington stuff. Very funny!




> Jamal Crawford for Othella Harrington? What is Scott Layden smoking? Reports out of both New York and Chicago had the Bulls trying to acquire Harrington this week. Talks, however, reportedly broke down when Layden, bless his heart, insisted on Crawford.
> 
> I know that GMs are always throwing crap out there and hoping someone is stupid enough to agree to a trade. And, as Celtics and Warriors fans can attest to, sometimes a gullible GM bites at the bait.
> 
> ...


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## Jim Ian (Aug 6, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>basghetti80</b>!
> Jim Ian I think you are right a potential deal with NY is prolly dead and buried. But I think it is safe to say Pax is doing everything he can to acquire via trade a hard nosed rebounding defensive backup center prior to the start of the season. If he does not accomplish that by then you can bet he will try again come February and either Fizer or Marshall will be saying au revoir.


I agree with you pretty much Basghetti, but In my wicked little brains I've always envisioned the Bulls Championship Winning Big-man rotation being Curry/Chandler/Fizer, with Chandler sliding to the 5 when Fizer comes in for Curry. This is what I'm hoping for 2 or 3 years down the line. But who knows for certain what the team will look like at that time...?


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## Jim Ian (Aug 6, 2002)

> by: *Chad Ford*:
> Jamal Crawford for Othella Harrington? What is Scott Layden smoking? Reports out of both New York and Chicago had the Bulls trying to acquire Harrington this week. Talks, however, reportedly broke down when Layden, bless his heart, insisted on Crawford.
> 
> I know that GMs are always throwing crap out there and hoping someone is stupid enough to agree to a trade. And, as Celtics and Warriors fans can attest to, sometimes a gullible GM bites at the bait.
> ...


OH MY GOD. That may be one of the funniest write ups about a trade I've EVER read.

5 Stars for Chad Ford!!!! LOL :clap: :Clap:


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## Half-Life (Jan 1, 2003)

Man edited for masking the NYDAILYNEWS, the NY POST, the NEW YORK TIMES, or whatever the hell that's associated with this news ya heard??????!!!!!

And edited for masking and rest of sentence removed.truebluefan


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

> your right, DMD. It wasn't necassary, truebluefan


Whoa!

Necessary? :no:


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>basghetti80</b>!
> But I think it is safe to say Pax is doing everything he can to acquire via trade a hard nosed rebounding defensive backup center prior to the start of the season.


like Othella Harrington? That guys about as hard nosed as those guys on ***** eye for the straight guy.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

It would probably have to be a multi-team deal. For some reason whenever I think about Crawford deals I think Seattle is involved in some way with Radmonovich. Some deal which would bring Radmonovich and Harrington to the bulls, send Marshall or Fizer out to Seattle with Crawford going to New York. I don't think that matches up salary wise. But if there's a deal to be done with Crawford and New York it's going to have to involve another team, because New York has a surplus of players at a position, PF, that we have a surplus of. So the deal would have to be with a frontcourt weak team as a third or fourth wheel. I would think.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>FJ_of _Rockaway</b>!
> Bogus unsubstantiated beat writer's wet dream that can't cope with the fact that the Knicks as currently constructed will blow mightily
> 
> In this league everybody bat half a dozen players are tradeable
> ...


classic! More vans than u-haul......:greatjob:


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

relax guys. I agree with most on here, the deal was discussed UNTIL Layden wanted Crawford thrown in. Thrown in?? 

Pax said no.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

That is funny that he wanted Crawford as a throw in. He's probably been reading this board too much.


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## MichaelOFAZ (Jul 9, 2002)

NYDailyNews is notorious for starting rumors that aren't true. I don't think the Bulls are entertainign any offers for JC.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

The Suntimes is now reporting that Jamal is available.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

If Jamal is available then that means pippen, Rose and Hinrich and Mason, satisfy Pax enough in their ball handling skills to put Jamal up for a trade. 

Crawford had two assists last night. Of course, our god awful shooting had something to do with that! Pippen had three assists.


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## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

I have no idea what Jamal would be traded for now but I admit Pippen as starter at PG backed up by Kirk and Mase sounds pretty good. We still would have Gill,Rose,ERob,LJ at 2/3 along with someone prolly coming back in a potential JC trade. Would not be the most awful scenario.


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## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

Of course there is the guy I have always liked in Seattle in Rashard Lewis. JC,Erob,Fizer for Lewis,Potapenko is a great trade. Pippen,Rose,Lewis,Chandler,Curry,Potapenko,Marshall,Gill, and Hinrich is a nice 9 man rotation. Mason, Johnson,Baxter, and Blount would be nice fill ins as well. But with Ridnour playing so well their interest in JC has dwindled I am sure.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

If the Bulls trade JC for anything short of superstar talent they are going to really live to regret it IMHO.:sigh:


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## Bullhawk (Sep 8, 2003)

ACE come on here you must be kidding. I know you love JC but come on you can't honestly think trading JC for TMAC(or any other superstar) would be a fair trade do you? He is no where near that level and barring some complete transformation and out of body experience it never will happen.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>KirkHinrich</b>!
> ACE come on here you must be kidding. I know you love JC but come on you can't honestly think trading JC for TMAC(or any other superstar) would be a fair trade do you? He is no where near that level and barring some complete transformation and out of body experience it never will happen.


I'm not kidding. And your absolutely right, JC ISN'T at that level yet and I never claimed that he was. Still, I feel very comfortable with the statement that he will be an All Star player and that he will be one of the TOP pg's in the league in a few short years. Virtually the only way the Bulls would get fair value for Jamal is to trade him for someone who is ALREADY much better than he is, like a Paul Pierce (which isn't gonna happen I agree) or, to trade him for a young up and coming player with just as much potential such as Zach Randolph or maybe even a guy like Jason Richardson. Sure, MAYBE a guy like Lewis will end up on the same level as Jamal when they level off...but I kinda doubt it.

One thing people don't consider either is that Jamal & Eddy are HUGE friends and Jamal is doing everything he can to try to stay in Chicago. If the Bulls give Crawford the shaft....will Curry resign? Sure, it's a business and his personal feelings may not weigh heavily into it, still, other teams will come calling too and Curry might be concerned about where the Bulls loyalty lies since they didn't (in this scenario) show it to Crawford.


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## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

Jordan disagreed heavily with the trading of Oakley, his friend, for Cartwright. He later realized this was the right thing to do. If Paxson determines that trading JC is the right thing then Curry will be fine with it too. As for Lewis I agree he is not best alternative although he is much better than JRich. I agree that trading JC should bring back a lot but not nearly as much as you are envisioning. Now our opinions differ greatly on him as a PG, you think he will eventually be a top tier PG whereas I don't even think he is a true PG so we just continue to go around in circles in talking about JC.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>basghetti80</b>!
> Jordan disagreed heavily with the trading of Oakley, his friend, for Cartwright. He later realized this was the right thing to do. If Paxson determines that trading JC is the right thing then Curry will be fine with it too. As for Lewis I agree he is not best alternative although he is much better than JRich. I agree that trading JC should bring back a lot but not nearly as much as you are envisioning. Now our opinions differ greatly on him as a PG, you think he will eventually be a top tier PG whereas I don't even think he is a true PG so we just continue to go around in circles in talking about JC.


While that is true, will Curry react like Jordan? Who knows? Sure, if the bulls think that Crawford needs to be dealt then they will deal him no matter what you or I think about it. But, I just don't see it, Jamal has bought into the company line and I think it's about time the company bought into him! 

Our opinions do differ a great deal on Jamal. I think Jamal is a combo guard but is betterat playing the point at this stage of his career. He definitley can play the pg spot, heck he delivers the ball a lot better than a lot of veteran pg's so I'm not sure where your thinking comes from. And all I am saying is that unless the Bulls can get a HECK of a good deal for Jamal they are better served by keeping him around.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>basghetti80</b>!
> Jordan disagreed heavily with the trading of Oakley, his friend, for Cartwright. He later realized this was the right thing to do. If Paxson determines that trading JC is the right thing then Curry will be fine with it too. As for Lewis I agree he is not best alternative although he is much better than JRich. I agree that trading JC should bring back a lot but not nearly as much as you are envisioning. Now our opinions differ greatly on him as a PG, you think he will eventually be a top tier PG whereas I don't even think he is a true PG so we just continue to go around in circles in talking about JC.



if pax & curry have the same relationship as krause and mj did ,will it be worth it ?

thats assuming curry even wants to stay after all this ...if memory serves me it took jordan years to get over it (the trade of oakley) and only then because the bulls won titles then if the bulls aren't winning titles in the next 3 years does curry even re-sign?


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## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

> heck he delivers the ball a lot better than a lot of veteran pg's so I'm not sure where your thinking comes from.


:laugh: :rofl:

Come on the best passing JC does is from his hand to the basket. For a PG Jamal has a serious shot selection problem. IMO the kid is a SG with PG handles but not a PG mentality.


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## TRUTHHURTS (Mar 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>basghetti80</b>!
> 
> 
> :laugh: :rofl:
> ...



And how did you come to this conclusion ?Name me one other player on the Bulls besides Curry by the way only played an average of 25mpg that shouldve taken more shots than Crawford this preseason.Keeping in mind that all these othere players are nothing more than role players who by all accounts shouldnt play more than 20-25 mpg .

It amazes me how people rag on Crawford about shooting too much in preseason games with the only guy able to give more then 16 ppg out and the only other option only playing half the game .But brush aside a 7ft 300lb center who cant smeall a rebound or protect the paint :no:


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>TRUTHHURTS</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I agree. I also agree that Jamal needs to work on his shot selection a little. He also needs to add some more strength, defend better, and learn to fight through screens. Still, Jamal is still a VERY young and developing player. I don't see anyone saying the Bulls shouldtrade Curry because he can't stay out of foul trouble, rebound well, defend well, or pass out of the double team well. Those are all things that need to be developed. Still, if those are the only real flaws in Jamal's game then you gotta imagine he is going to be pretty good. ANd ANYONE who has seriously watched Jamal knows that he can distribute the ball really well when he puts his mind to it.


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## Ubonics (Jul 12, 2002)

Trading Crawford for basically any realilistic deal(i.e. Rashard lewis, not T-Mac(ahahah)) is not a good idea. Ok first off before all the JCH's(Jamal Crawford Haters) attack me. JC does take more shots then most pg's but this is not to say he isnt good at making shots, Marbury takes more shots then most pgs..Kidd does too, Payton(in his prime) did too. YOU CAN HAVE A SUCCESFULL OFFENSIVE PG AND HE HELPS THE TEAM. Crawford also does play the PG position very well and hell hes only 23yrs old. Also one of his best friends and mentors is Gary Payton so it wouldnt be surprising if he modeled his game after him. And although JC is from Seattle, I don't think Seattle would do the trade b/c Lewis may play more of a perimiter game for his height but you always need height in the West. Also Seattle has Brent Barry at point(who is extremely underrated) if anyone has watched the guy play they will see that he is very solid at pg(and riduor backing up seems solid too) Also for the JCH's at least admit that JC is an above average pg and what are the 2 most important positions that any coach will tell you, that you need to have a championship team..... Center and PG and we have both these positons..young,solid and full of even more potential. I would be extremely pissed if the Bulls ever traded Crawford and all of the deals disscussed i believe would only hurt the teams performance. lets hop Pax keeps his goals straight and realizes that it is in the teams best interest to keep JC. 

Ight fellas thanks for listening

--Ubonics


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## Ceochase (Jun 24, 2002)

Crawford showed he was going to be a great player last year when they finally let him start.

If your going to bash him for the pre-season then fine.

Also to rely on an old oft injured Pippen (who by the way is supposed to be the shutdown defensive 3 man we were looking for) Kirk (rookie) and Mason JR. (who I happen to like but not ready to commit on a long term basis yet) would be DUMB.

It would be the Elton Brand trade all over again.

2 steps forward.....3 steps back.

Jamal Crawford is the best point guard this team has had since the Jordan years. Actually in the East who is really better than this guy?

Kidd
Davis

That's it and he's only 23.

Didn't forget about Lebron...he has to show it first.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>basghetti80</b>!
> Of course there is the guy I have always liked in Seattle in Rashard Lewis. JC,Erob,Fizer for Lewis,Potapenko is a great trade. Pippen,Rose,Lewis,Chandler,Curry,Potapenko,Marshall,Gill, and Hinrich is a nice 9 man rotation. Mason, Johnson,Baxter, and Blount would be nice fill ins as well. But with Ridnour playing so well their interest in JC has dwindled I am sure.


hey I like that. Seattle then could play JC, Ray Allen, and Radmonovich, with Fizer and Jerome James. That solves a lot of problems for them.

But yeah, I think with Ridnour's play they wouldn't do this trade. In addition to Ray Allen's ankle injury.


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## Kismet (Mar 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>futuristxen</b>!
> 
> 
> hey I like that. Seattle then could play JC, Ray Allen, and Radmonovich, with Fizer and Jerome James. That solves a lot of problems for them.
> ...


FYI, Allen's got a bum ankle. In fact it appears serious enough for the ESPN Radio announcer to have mentioned Allen's and Grant Hill's name in the same sentence.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Kismet</b>!
> 
> 
> FYI, Allen's got a bum ankle. In fact it appears serious enough for the ESPN Radio announcer to have mentioned Allen's and Grant Hill's name in the same sentence.


Yeah I don't think they can get rid of Rashard as long as Allen's status is up in the air. Rashard needs to step up so Ray doesn't have to rush back. I hope he gets back quickly though. I have high expectations for the sonics and ray allen this year.


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