# Tyson Chandler: extremely unskilled, somewhat uncoordinated



## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

For me, watching Tyson Chandler usually brings joy and frustration. Tyson always "brings it" Kirsten Dunst style -- with a lot of effort -- as evidenced by his 19 rebounds last night. However, I also can't think up many more uncoordinated post players in the league right now.

Stepping back from Tyson for a moment and talking in generalities, there are terms that get thrown around a lot describing basketball players and their abilities: talent, athleticism, speed, skill, etc. The two that I wish to define to discuss Tyson are skill and athleticism. Athleticism is what Tyson has - he can run fast, he can jump high, he has quick hands and good reflexes. Skill is what Tyson doesn't have, and what, let's say, Jalen Rose has. Jalen can dribble, can shoot with range out to the 3, can post up, and he can score in a variety of ways. Aside from having a decent jumper, Tyson has very little skill at this point. He looks extremely out of balance in the post. Despite being over 7 feet, he seems to get shots blocked because he thrusts them up (awkwardly) from somewhere beside his head. Though his dribbling skills have improved since last year, they are seldom useful enough to get him closer to the hoop. 

When we traded for Tyson, we thought we might be getting a slightly bigger Kevin Garnett, a guy who could play the 3 at over 7 feet. What I think we got, at least as of right now, is a skinny, 7 foot Ben Wallace - a guy who has limited offensive skill, but through his hustle, heart, and athleticsm, is strangely effective. That being said, he's only 20, and I'd love to see him develop a few more of Garnett's skills and some of his fluidity, but he has a long, long way to go in this department.

Thoughts?


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## Kneepad (Jun 24, 2002)

*Re: Tyson Chandler: extremely uncoordinated*

I agree with your observations to a point.

I agree that Chandler can run fast (which requires coordination for someone that size), he can jump, has quick hands and reflexes.

And while I agree that he often looks awkward making his post moves, I don't agree that he's uncoordinated. I think he's still adjusting to the NBA game. I've noticed in both Chandler and Curry that they tend to try to make their moves too fast. If I were BC, I would have them watch tape of Tim Duncan. They need to slow down and relax when they get the ball in the post. They need to learn to react more to the defender instead of plowing ahead with a pre-planned move regardless of what the defense does. Tyson gets off balance when his move is well-defended and he is unable to adjust. This all comes with experience and time. How much time it takes depends largely on how hard Tyson is willing to work.


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## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

*Very coordinated, Appears unskilled*

Bagaric is uncoordinated.

Running the length of the court, skying for an ally-oop, catching it, & slaming it home takes a heck of a lot of coordination. As does scoring 20+ or getting 19 rebounds mainly on athletic ability. Coordination is not Ty's problem.

He still lacks the necessary strength to hold his position the way Amare or Oakley do. He may never have their base of power and strength but he will get a heck of a lot better. He has come a long way from last year already when guys like Garrity were pushing him around.

The sooner that he can hold his position, and handle a small bump, the quicker he will show his improved post moves and nice jumper (i.e. his skills).

I also agree that his ball handling and post-up skills need to improve, but I'm very happy to see where the kid is at considering he is 20, 7'2" and has the right attitude and work ethic.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

*Re: Very coordinated, Appears unskilled*

I wish I could change my subject to extremely unskilled, somewhat uncoordinated, because that would be a more accurate summation of my arguement.


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## max6216 (Nov 27, 2002)

alot of it is bad footing,which will take time as he learns the game.how many times have we seen chandler and curry get the ball low,make a move and end up on there rumps cuz there opponet eased up as they were trying to make a strong move. my biggest problems is there hands,just as they get the pass for a open bucket,the ball fumbles away like they are wearing catchers mitts.


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## Killuminati (Jul 30, 2002)

I'd rather see Tyson develop a mid-range jumper more so than any low-post moves. He's a more effective player when he faces up cuz of his quickness and hops.


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## Louie (Jun 13, 2002)

Chandler will never be the next Garnett- he doesn't have the same kind of skills- but he can still be good/great in his own way. The comparison I've often used for him is Mutumbo, who also has sort of an awkward style. Couple differences though; though lacking Mutumbo's polish, Chandler can jump higher, run faster, and has displayed the potential to be a better offensive player, IMO.


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## Nater (Jul 10, 2002)

I wouldn't call Chandler clumsy or uncoordinated. In my mind, most of the plays that make him appear this way are when he mishandles passes, which are usually below his waist. He is exceptional at catching passes up around the rim for alley-oops, so I don't think he can really be called uncoordinated. I think he just has a hard time with low passes, which is probably true of most people -- big men in particular.


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

Of all the labels that we are kicking around the most worrysome for Tyson would be "Center". Ty aqnd Garnett have nothing in common. Tyson is not a power foward (let alone a small foward). While his shot shows promise and his dribbling has improved it is reasonable to dobt that he will ever bring the skills at an adequate level to move away from the hoop. Furthermore the largest spike of his game is his help defense and these skills would be severly marginalized by having to guard players farther away from the hoop.

You may ask, "Why is this a problem--Ben Wallace is pretty damn good?"

Eddy Curry appears to be a center as well.


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## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>C.C.C.P</b>!
> Tyson is not a power foward (let alone a small foward). While his shot shows promise and his dribbling has improved it is reasonable to dobt that he will ever bring the skills at an adequate level to move away from the hoop.


A few years down the line Ty's offensive skills will at least be as good as Horace Grant's if not a whole heck of a lot better. Ty would seem to be able to guard similar players as Grant, too. As Grant was able to play next to a 'real' center, I don't see any problem in this regard.


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## ChiBullsFan (May 30, 2002)

Take a look back at the old tapes of KG, Duncan, J. O'Neal at the same age and you will see the same thing -- athleticism and skill that is not being harnessed properly. Basically, when big guys are young they haven't yet grown into their bodies and can appear very awkward at times. They are too athletic for their own good, they bounce around the court with little body control. But they all settle down with time, their bodies mature, they gain better control over their movements. This will happen with Chandler. I'm not saying he'll ever develop the offense of Duncan or KG, but I actually think he's a bit ahead of where J.O'Neal was at that stage of his career, so overall I am very encouraged. And it's hard to argue with Tyson's production - 8 ppg and 53% FG in just over 20 mpg is a pretty good start of a nice offensive career. Comparing him to Mutombo is selling his coordination short.


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## JOHNNY_BRAVisimO (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Louie</b>!
> Chandler will never be the next Garnett- he doesn't have the same kind of skills- but he can still be good/great in his own way. The comparison I've often used for him is Mutumbo, who also has sort of an awkward style. Couple differences though; though lacking Mutumbo's polish, Chandler can jump higher, run faster, and has displayed the potential to be a better offensive player, IMO.


i like the Matumbo comparison, but im thinking that maybe David Robinson or Alonzo Mourning are better comparisons IMO, Matumbo is a slug who has trouble getting to the other end of the court. Rasheed Wallace is another player who TC can develope into but Tyson will be a Much better defender then him. i think Zo and Drob are your best bets.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

i don't see any reason why tyson couldn't round into a player like JO (as mentioned above). he should be able to develop pf skills and be formidable at that position as well as the center spot.


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## BamaBull (Jun 24, 2002)

*Re: Re: Tyson Chandler: extremely uncoordinated*



> Originally posted by <b>Kneepad</b>!
> I agree with your observations to a point.
> 
> I agree that Chandler can run fast (which requires coordination for someone that size), he can jump, has quick hands and reflexes.
> ...



the answer is: MUSCLE. Coordination is affected tremendously by muscle tone. He cannot react when in the paint any other way THAN looking uncoordinated as he is bounced around like he is in a pinball machine. THIS was my argument months ago when he was reported to become a PF. PF, Center, either way, IF you do not bulk up, you will get bounced around. My other observation was that IF he could develop an outside jumper, he could conceivably become another KG. He has done neither, getting bulked up, NOR has he developed a jumper.


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## dkg1 (May 31, 2002)

*Re: Tyson Chandler: extremely uncoordinated*



> Originally posted by <b>DMD</b>!
> 
> He looks extremely out of balance in the post. Despite being over 7 feet, he seems to get shots blocked because he thrusts them up (awkwardly) from somewhere beside his head. Though his dribbling skills have improved since last year, they are seldom useful enough to get him closer to the hoop.
> 
> ...


good post,DMD. He and Eddy get their shots blocked a lot because neither will use his right hand. I get frustrated watching these two use their right hand when facing the left side of the backboard! When Kwame stuffed Tyson, Tyson was on the left side trying to go up with his right hand. Dali could block that shot!

About Tyson's weird shooting motion, when he thrusts a shot up from the side of his head, this is usually done with two hands. Heusually does this in traffic, when he is going to get fouled. He still lacks the strength to go up with the ball in both hands outstretched so he has the ball in both hands on the side of his head. Hopefully this gets corrected as he gets stronger.


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>johnston797</b>!
> 
> 
> A few years down the line Ty's offensive skills will at least be as good as Horace Grant's if not a whole heck of a lot better. Ty would seem to be able to guard similar players as Grant, too. As Grant was able to play next to a 'real' center, I don't see any problem in this regard.


Is not a question of possible as much as it is a question of effective. Yes, Tyson could play power foward but this would be marginalizing all of his strengths. Furthermore, if Ty turns out to be only as good as Grant the Bulls are in for some lean years... I mean more lean years.


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## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

*A couple of thoughts*

Bama, per my original post, I agree with you that that muscle is an issue, but Ty has been working on it & added bulk in the off-season. Everyone pushed him around last year. It's going to take a few years of really hard work from Chandler with slow payoffs. Chandler has already joked about lifting for 15 months and still not having any muscle in his chest.



> Originally posted by <b>C.C.C.P</b>!
> 
> Is not a question of possible as much as it is a question of effective. Yes, Tyson could play power foward but this would be marginalizing all of his strengths.


I now see your point, but am still not too concerned. A 4 can play as close to the basket as a the offense scheme calls for. On D, there is the potential that his man attempts to bring him outside but this might be just as likely if he is guarding 5s (think Brad Miller) as 4s (Dirk). Again, with the right scheme, he can be put in a position where he is most effective.

P.S. The Grant comparision was just to argue a point. _My own personal opinion:_Chandler will be the best player on the Bulls and considerably better than Grant.


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

*Re: A couple of thoughts*



> Originally posted by <b>johnston797</b>!
> 
> P.S. The Grant comparision was just to argue a point. _My own personal opinion:_Chandler will be the best player on the Bulls and considerably better than Grant.



Agreed. Say what you want about Ty's mediocre block stats, but he has established himself as a force. I don't know how many times in the last couple of games I have seen missed open layups where Ty stares at the penetrating guard and a bad shot goes up. He dosen't even have to make an attempt to block shots. As illogical as it sounds the fact that Brand leads the league in blocks may not be the powerhouse stat it appears. People are willing to shoot on brand-- not so willing on Ty.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

*Re: Re: A couple of thoughts*

Can we revisit this just for a moment? Yes, I heard Ty was dealing with a stomach flu during the Seattle game on Saturday, but is that the real reason for his six turnovers in the first half?

To be honest, I'm not really sure what he's doing wrong. Why is it that some big men can dribble and protect the ball whereas others (Tyson on Saturday) are practically turning the ball over every time they dribble?

Somebody please explain this to me and convince me that Ty is capable of improving his dribbling to at least the level of decent. Despite some of his other notable skills, when I see him bumbling like this, I get extremely frustrated and wonder if we traded Elton for someone who can't even dribble, and therefore will never be a decent post player.


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## JOHNNY_BRAVisimO (Jun 11, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: A couple of thoughts*



> Originally posted by <b>DMD</b>!
> Can we revisit this just for a moment? Yes, I heard Ty was dealing with a stomach flu during the Seattle game on Saturday, but is that the real reason for his six turnovers in the first half?
> 
> To be honest, I'm not really sure what he's doing wrong. Why is it that some big men can dribble and protect the ball whereas others (Tyson on Saturday) are practically turning the ball over every time they dribble?
> ...


this dosent have to do with dribbling but...
I think The reason he looks so uncoordinated is because of his inability to palm the ball, a MUST for bigmen. Thats why tyson's shots under the basket always look so lopsided, and crooked. he is always shooting with two hands down low in the paint. being able to palm the ball does wonders for your inside game which is why Elton and Curry make it look SOOO easy whereas Tyson makes it look very difficult. Tyse will Never be an effective scorer in the paint if he dosent develope soft one-handed touch around the basket.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: A couple of thoughts*



> Originally posted by <b>JOHNNY_BRAVisimO</b>!
> 
> 
> this dosent have to do with dribbling but...
> I think The reason he looks so uncoordinated is because of his inability to palm the ball, a MUST for bigmen. Thats why tyson's shots under the basket always look so lopsided, and crooked. he is always shooting with two hands down low in the paint. being able to palm the ball does wonders for your inside game which is why Elton and Curry make it look SOOO easy whereas Tyson makes it look very difficult. Tyse will Never be an effective scorer in the paint if he dosent develope soft one-handed touch around the basket.


Very intersting point, Johnny. This is exactly the kind of insight I was hoping someone would provide. I had not thought of that before, and I'm visualizing what Tyson looks like in the post, and I think you're right!

Now I know that I can't quite palm a regulation sized ball, but I can still make shots with one hand. Maybe Tyson needs to work on that. 

I can't imagine he can't palm a ball, being such a large man. If his fingers were anywhere near proportional, he would be able to do this with ease.

Johnny, I think you may have found the key. Now is someone working with Tyson on this? If not, they should hire you.

That being said, I still think his ball handling requires major work too.


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## Wynn (Jun 3, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: A couple of thoughts*



> Originally posted by <b>JOHNNY_BRAVisimO</b>!
> 
> I think The reason he looks so uncoordinated is because of his inability to palm the ball, a MUST for bigmen.


I don't think it's an inability so much as a lack of the technique. I'm 6'5" and have no trouble palming the ball. At 7'whatever, Tyson has to be able to do it......

Maybe he hasn't been coached on it?


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A couple of thoughts*



> Originally posted by <b>Wynn</b>!
> 
> 
> I don't think it's an inability so much as a lack of the technique. I'm 6'5" and have no trouble palming the ball. At 7'whatever, Tyson has to be able to do it......
> ...


I'm thinking Johnny has really hit on something. If Tyson has yet to be coached on this, this is a horrific indictment of the coaching staff.


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## Michael Jackson (Jun 11, 2002)

Tyson says he wants to be like Garnett but it will never ever happen. He does not have Garnetts game. He can't dribble up the floor. he has not the passing. He has not the J. 

I have always proclaimed him a better version of Marcus Camby. Scoff if you will but Marcus and Latrell carried the Knicks into the finals. Marcus when healthy was awesome. I think Tyson can be camby with more offense and just as much D


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A couple of thoughts*



> Originally posted by <b>Wynn</b>!
> 
> 
> I don't think it's an inability so much as a lack of the technique. I'm 6'5" and have no trouble palming the ball. At 7'whatever, Tyson has to be able to do it......
> ...


Not neccessarily guys, there are plenty of 7 footers that cant palm the ball. Some players just dont have large hands. Ex Camby cant palm the ball or David Robinson I believe couldnt palm the ball. This is something tht cant be taught, but I will agree his ball handling skills must improve


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## Killuminati (Jul 30, 2002)

I've always thought Tyson's game resembled Mutombo's except much better athleticism, and in a couple years, a better offensive game. David Robinson aint too much of a stretch either but TC is light years away from developing DRob's mid to long-range jumper and low post game.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A couple of thoughts*



> Originally posted by <b>Darius Miles Davis</b>!
> 
> 
> Very intersting point, Johnny. This is exactly the kind of insight I was hoping someone would provide. I had not thought of that before, and I'm visualizing what Tyson looks like in the post, and I think you're right!
> ...


Bump.

Big time bump. This post is over a year old.

But things are still the same. Tyson is still offensively pretty useless. Yes, perhaps it's not fair to be critical after he has been attending to his back problems first and foremost for a few months. But Ty is still a hack in the post.

Thanks to my new Tivo (an amazing little recorder), I took some time to analyze Tyson's shots in the post in slow motion. And I learned something by watching. The reason Tyson is so often shooting the ball from the side of his head, so off balance, is that he actually jumps well before his hands are position to shoot the ball. They're still down by his waist. Consequently, he's only able to get the ball from his waiste to a more balanced shooting position, higher and in the center of his body. 

Technique like that is not going to cut it. Tyson's never going to be a great player if he shoots like that on a regular basis. 

Tyson deserves to be criticized in the same light as Jamal for not getting his **** together. I've seen Jamal improve on a lot of his weak points. Now that Tyson is back, he better improve on his post shot technique to make himself a useful offensive player.


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## Sham (Dec 2, 2002)

> The reason Tyson is so often shooting the ball from the side of his head, so off balance, is that he actually jumps well before his hands are position to shoot the ball. They're still down by his waist.




Oh hell yes. This would be helped if he didn't bring the damn thing down so often.

At the same time, this is very coachable.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ShamBulls</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So you would think. But he's been doing it for three years now, and habits are hard to break. Somebody's guilty, one of two coaching staffs and/or Tyson himself for not figuring out something so simple.

With Tyson's height, heart, and athleticism, I don't think it would take much to make him a decent post threat. But we're still waiting.


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## dsouljah9 (Jul 9, 2002)

What you guys are leaving out is the fact that Tysons hands are small for a 7 footer ala Patrick Ewing.


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A couple of thoughts*



> Originally posted by <b>Darius Miles Davis</b>!
> 
> Technique like that is not going to cut it. Tyson's never going to be a great player if he shoots like that on a regular basis.
> 
> Tyson deserves to be criticized in the same light as Jamal for not getting his **** together. I've seen Jamal improve on a lot of his weak points. Now that Tyson is back, he better improve on his post shot technique to make himself a useful offensive player.


This post sounds foreboding... Can Tyson be an all-star if he never refines his offensive game?

Hell yes: Ben Wallace, Dikembe Mutombo, Russell, many think Bill Russell was the greatest ball player of all time. 

Our two young bigs are failing for different reasons. But Ty, unlike a Center who can't defend or rebound, can be an all-star even if he never improves on his weaknesses. I am hoping Ty puts it together like every other Bulls fan but even if he doesn't, you can work around a player who can't score, defense and rebounding are another story...


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A couple of thoughts*



> Originally posted by <b>C.C.C.P</b>!
> 
> 
> This post sounds foreboding... Can Tyson be an all-star if he never refines his offensive game?
> ...


Yeah, but let's not just make the assumption that Tyson will become a defensive player in the calibur of Wallace, Deke, and Russell. If he was already there, I wouldn't be complaining about him. But there's no guarantee he'll get there, or even close for that matter. 

The whole P word (potential) is starting to wear thin with me. Excuse my impatience.


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## Wynn (Jun 3, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A couple of thoughts*



> Originally posted by <b>Darius Miles Davis</b>!
> 
> The whole P word (potential) is starting to wear thin with me. *Excuse my impatience.*


NO EXCUSES!


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## 7thwatch (Jul 18, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>dsouljah9</b>!
> What you guys are leaving out is the fact that Tysons hands are small for a 7 footer ala Patrick Ewing.


Leaving out? That fact was mentioned and discussed earlier in the thread.


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## Wynn (Jun 3, 2002)

I just don't see the evidence supporting the claim that Chandler has freakishly small hands. I'll say again, I'm a 6'5" white guy (I only mention race because I think typically white guys have smaller hands than black guys) with normal size hands for my frame, and I can palm the ball. Tyson, even if he had small hands for a 7 footer, would be able to do so easily. The pictures above show the same.


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## Benny the Bull (Jul 25, 2002)

I think a lot is made of the fact that because Tyson doesn't always catch passes, people blame it on the fact he has small hands. This is BS. To catch passes, you have to have 'soft' hands. You can't be tense. That's probably Chandler's problem, not the fact he has small hands.


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## Sham (Dec 2, 2002)

Looking at that top picture with Drobnjak, an dlooking at his left hand, I can't see him palming the ball with that left hand. Sure you don't have to get halfway around the circumference to palm it, but you have to get somewhere closer to it than that.


Anyways, the fact his hands are small isnt as much of a problem as the fact they are made of concrete. :banghead:


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

Bump.

Tyson's really impressing me with him vast array of post moves lately.  And while he's kicking his legs and making a dramatic looking rebound, he should be turning around and getting the ball down the court quicker.

I'm not sure that this guy isn't going to suck his entire career. I am not impressed by anything this guy does except for rebound. 

I'll be bumping this often until Ty proves me wrong.


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Darius Miles Davis</b>!
> Bump.
> 
> Tyson's really impressing me with him vast array of post moves lately.  And while he's kicking his legs and making a dramatic looking rebound, he should be turning around and getting the ball down the court quicker.
> ...


Yup Tyson has stunk it up offensively since he's came back from injury. Its strange b/c Tyson was getting 14ppg to start the season on mostly putbacks and garbage buckets (BC ran zero plays for him). Now he looks just abominable at times on O.

Do we have the next Theo Ratliff on our hands?


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

Bump yet again.

We've had another year of the Tyson Chandler experience, and man, the guy still doesn't have a post move.

It's been four years in the NBA. I'm not expecting him to magically become a coordinated post player or at least an average level finisher. I don't think he has it in him. His shots are still the worst kind of ugly.

This is not to say he doesn't have anything to contribute to the Bulls, and it never was. He's still a high level rebounder and a defensive force, and he's even a good garbage man on offensive putbacks. 

But this is a preemptive strike against those of you who will theorize that Tyson will add some post moves over the summer. 

No he won't, because he can't.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

Darius Miles Davis said:


> But this is a preemptive strike against those of you who will theorize that Tyson will add some post moves over the summer.
> 
> No he won't, because he can't.


Maybe not. But if he plays like he did the last 4 games of this series, and Curry comes back, this team is in very, very good shape.

All NBA rebounder. 14 points a game. 8-15 trips to the line a game. around 2-3 blocks a game. He may look ugly... but if he can put the ball in the hoop @ around a 45-50% clip and get to the line as much as he has been and get the FT% up a little more to 70-75%... oh man.... teamed with Curry.... we're going to be in good shape.


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## bullsville (Jan 23, 2005)

Just don't blame it on 'small hands', Barkley said one night on TNT that he couldn't palm the ball and that's why he always dunked 2-handed.


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## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

Chandler averaged 11.7 and 9.7 and more than 2 blocks a game in 28 mins. Roughly 1 A/TO ratio. 47% FG shooting, 69% FT shooting.

All around - that's quite a bit better than the regular season.

This guy has massive upside. He would be 14/11 easy just by playing a full game. Just learning to finish either by better strength OR savvy would help out a lot.

On top of this, he showed three moves this year and if he perfects ANY of them, he will be an All-Star. One is the 15 footer he used at the start of the year. Another is taking his guy off the dribble for the runner. The third is a little half hook he showed more often under Cartwright.

We badly need to resign this guy


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## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

Darius Miles Davis said:


> But this is a preemptive strike against those of you who will theorize that Tyson will add some post moves over the summer.


Hey, we can also pull up threads from last summer that said Tyson was injury prone and would be unlikely to stay healthy this year.

That was his top priority last summer and well done. Let's see what he comes up with this off-season. I don't think he is as far away from some consistancy on O.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

I don't care about Tyson adding new post moves, that is Curry's job, I just want to have Tyson get stronger and go up stronger in the paint. Too many times he goes up weak for a dunk and he misses it or gets blocked, sometimes he gets fouled which is good, but it would be nice to have him go and 1. He needs to add the offensive intensity Curry has. If Curry is in good position, he will just dunk on you, and dunk on your strong. Chandler just needs to learn how to dunk harder this offseson, and I'll be happy.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

johnston797 said:


> Chandler averaged 11.7 and 9.7 and more than 2 blocks a game in 28 mins. Roughly 1 A/TO ratio. 47% FG shooting, 69% FT shooting.
> 
> All around - that's quite a bit better than the regular season.
> 
> ...


I will agree with you we need to resign him. I'm just of the opinion that at this point, what you see with Tyson is what you get. His offensive game makes me want to hurl. 

Tyson doesn't have it in him to perfect a move. You can't have consistency when your technique is that bad.


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## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

I'd rather see him go back to his jumpshooting ways. His moves to the basket are U-G-L-Y. Tyson and Ben Wallace are identical in their games but Larry Brown insists that they need to go downlow for scoring.

If he can develop a hookshot or a move he can always go to instead of that awkward two-handed-pump-flail-off-the-glass shot he always takes, I'll be happy. Repetition is key for him this summer. I remember he said he worked hard on his jumpshot two seasons ago and it looked good until his back injury. This past summer he worked on strengthening his back. This time around, it should be a 'work on a postgame' offseason. He's so stinkin athletic and lean. I just realized I'm repeating what johnston797 said. 

He's like Nocioni in that they can't finish well around the rim but can draw contact and they have to shoot 2 FT's. Nocioni is ok since he can shoot it a bit better than Tyson. Anything Tyson adds to his offensive arsenal is a plus. Let's face it though, he's just an opportunity basket kind of guy. He brings so much to a possession with his putbacks and dunks. You almost have to reward him.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

chandler = 7 foot kenyon martin.............

kmart has all the athletic ability in the world.... mainly due to fast twitch muscle fiber which enables him to be explosive,fast and a leaper...

yet,have you ever watched him on offense???its offensive...

no finesse,no real handle,no shot,and almost looks uncomfortable and a bit uncoordinated...

Yet he has all the athletic ability in the world,with no finnese..

Expect the same from chandler..


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

truth said:


> chandler = 7 foot kenyon martin.............
> 
> kmart has all the athletic ability in the world.... mainly due to fast twitch muscle fiber which enables him to be explosive,fast and a leaper...
> 
> ...


Chandler doesn't have the strength or mean streak of Martin and that is what seperates the two on offense.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

kenyon is more honery,but Chandler is young..And dont forget,playing with Kidd makes everyone alot better,as Kmart and the Nuggets are finding out..

but they both have the athletic gifts without the basketball skills...


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## bullsville (Jan 23, 2005)

KMart at 22- Started in 31 games for the Bearcats his senior year, averaging 18.9 ppg, 9.7 rpg and 3.45 bpg 

Tyson at 22- Over the last 4 games of the series vs Washington (once the officials let him play) he averaged 16 ppg, 11 rpg and 2.25 bpg

Can you imagine if Tyson had been playing college ball this season?


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## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

Darius Miles Davis said:


> Tyson doesn't have it in him to perfect a move. You can't have consistency when your technique is that bad.


Seems like constancy could be taught unlike height and leaping ability. 

Well, we have disagreed for at least 2.5 years. Why stop now?


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

i hope you guys dont think i am knocking tyson.....i would love a 7 foot kmart as would every gm in the league..he just wont ever win the skills competition..or even a slam dunk comp


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

johnston797 said:


> Seems like constancy could be taught unlike height and leaping ability.
> 
> Well, we have disagreed for at least 2.5 years. Why stop now?


Yes, but you would have to admit that the longer it goes without Tyson developing a move, the more it looks like I will be right. :biggrin:


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## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

Darius Miles Davis said:


> Yes, but you would have to admit that the longer it goes without Tyson developing a move, the more it looks like I will be right. :biggrin:


I've always thought the biggest impediment was his lack of strength/bulk and it would take a few years.

If he works as hard over the next few summers as he did last summer and assume he is not Shawn Bradley two in body type, it's just a matter of time IMHO.


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

johnston797 said:


> I've always thought the biggest impediment was his lack of strength/bulk and it would take a few years.
> 
> If he works as hard over the next few summers as he did last summer and assume he is not Shawn Bradley two in body type, it's just a matter of time IMHO.


 I agree that tyson's biggest impediment is body strength. have we seen anything that would allow us to assume that he is not bradley II?


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## Shabadoo (Feb 12, 2005)

While I'm not claiming to know as much as you guys about the intricacies of the Tyson Chandler offence, after watching yesterday, I'll say this....

Every single time that Chandler is isolated in the post, or receives the Ball off of the pick and roll, Benny Hill music must be played. You know, the Chris Andersen Dunk Contest Song.

That pick and roll with Kirk, where he inadvertently (and clumsily) drew a blocking foul was black humour that even old Stanley Kubrick couldn't touch. However, the horrible finishing and awkward ball handling make it look as though he's already wearing the "mien fuehrer" glove.











There's consolation in the fact that he puts maximum effort out there. Also, at least he's "elite" on one end of the court. Maybe he'll surprise us over the offseason. I fear us overpaying him though, considering he's still extremely raw and offensively handicapped.

Hopefully it all works out well.


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## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

such sweet thunder said:


> I agree that tyson's biggest impediment is body strength. have we seen anything that would allow us to assume that he is not bradley II?


I think he has already exceeded that mark, but we will see how much farther he can get. Luckily, 99% of the world bulks up rather easily from 22 to 28 if they are working at it.


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

Darius Miles Davis said:


> Bump yet again.
> 
> We've had another year of the Tyson Chandler experience, and man, the guy still doesn't have a post move.
> 
> ...


I couldn't care less about aesthetics. Hinrich, Gordon, and Duhon all have great form on their jumpers, and they all miss at least 6 out of every ten shots they take.

Chandler isn't graceful, powerful, or pretty to look at, but he is at worst the Bulls' second-most efficient offensive player, and if you put a premium on turnovers and rate of drawn fouls and offensive rebounding, it wouldn't be outlandish to suggest he's more efficient than Curry.

Yeah, I'd like him to add some sort of go-to move and finish with more authority around the basket. But imo he has made progress year after year, albeit incrementally, and I'm pretty sure he'll figure something out in a season or two. I would even argue that part of what's holding him back is a relative scarcity of opportunities. Skiles pretty much never ran a play for him this year until Curry got hurt.

It's kind of academic, anyway. As good as his defense is, any offense we get out of the guy is gravy. But I happen to think he does a good job on that end as well.


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## bullsville (Jan 23, 2005)

ScottMay said:


> I couldn't care less about aesthetics. Hinrich, Gordon, and Duhon all have great form on their jumpers, and they all miss at least 6 out of every ten shots they take.
> 
> Chandler isn't graceful, powerful, or pretty to look at, but he is at worst the Bulls' second-most efficient offensive player, and if you put a premium on turnovers and rate of drawn fouls and offensive rebounding, it wouldn't be outlandish to suggest he's more efficient than Curry.
> 
> ...


Great post.

Tyson is often compared to Big Ben and Rodman, but Tyson is so far ahead of where those guys were at 22 that it's not even funny. Hell, if Tyson would have stayed out of foul trouble the first two games, he'd be putting up close to Wallace numbers in *these* playoffs. Ben in 40.0 min is putting up 12.8 pts, 12.2 reb, 2.60 blks. 

Include the first 2 games where Tyson barely played, and he gave us 11.4 pts, 9.2 reb, and 2.20 blks in only 27.4 min.

People often talk about Eddy's size in the post and what it means to us- well, Tyson is 7'1" and a great leaper, that's also good "size", and it's one hell of a 'skill' to have. It especially comes in handy on a team that runs a lot of pick and roll, which the Bulls do every now and again.

I guess my point is that Scott May was 100% correct, Tyson is going to be so great on defense that even Worm-like or Big Ben-ish offense would make him an All-Star. But he's already that good, and I certainly expect him to improve some more. It may not be pretty, but who cares? 

And I happen to agree that he's going to be a double-digit scorer for his career, most likely starting next season.

"Scarcity of opportunities"? He took 419 shots in 80 games all season, yeah I'd say he didn't have many plays run for him.

Tyson- 419 FGA, 336 FTA 
Eddy- 730 FGA, 314 FTA

Does that speak very highly of Tyson's ability to get to the line, of very poorly of Eddy's? And Tyson has improved his FT shooting in each of the last 3 seasons, and it went up a little more in the playoffs.


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