# What if Carmelo never left Syracus



## jamgod09 (Mar 13, 2004)

What if he stayed in school would they defend national Championship?


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## rebelsun (Nov 25, 2003)

Well, Carmelo personally would maybe have made the biggest mistake ever.


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## UKfan4Life (Mar 5, 2003)

What if, what if, what if, what if. What if Pitino let Derek Anderson play in the '97 championship game versus Arizona (this has been on my mind all day for some reason)? Would UK be in the hunt for title #9 instead of #8? Considering we took Arizona into overtime in that game without him, I'd have to say yes.

You can ask 'what if' all day, but I'll admit, these questions are fun to ask.  I'll have to go with yes, they probably would defend their crown, but anything can happen in March...


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## HoosierDaddy (Nov 18, 2003)

I love what if's. What if Luke Recker and Jared Jefferies stayed at IU?

Tom Coverdale
Dane Fife
Luke Recker
Jared Jefferies
Jeff Newton

Champs last year.


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## BrYaNBaIlEy06 (Jul 15, 2003)

WHAT IF!!??!!

What if? Mississippi State had... Johnathon Bender, Mario Austin, Travis Outlaw, Jakie Butler, and the Poland boy... along with the rest of the team.... WHAT IF!!!


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

I would say without no qualms that they would be ranked #1 in the country, and be the #1, #1 seed.

But in a one game win all format, I never give a team more then a 50% chance of winning the title. So if I am betting men and could bet SU vs the field, I would choose the field.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

He had a GPA below 2.0. He would have been ineligible to play anyway, although Boeheim would have found a loophole to get him eligible somehow. 

Thats' why Boeheim wasn't crying or sad when Melo left because he knew that Melo was never a student to begin with. He was an athlete.


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## sov82 (Nov 5, 2003)

*Disagree*

Last Year UCONN was 2-0 against Syracuse and won by 14 & 13 points. To say they would obviously be the #1 overall seed is a mistake. (No, I'm not saying UCONN would have been the #1 overall seed. I'm saying that more than likely Syracuse would have a few Ls up there from Big East Play alone).


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> He had a GPA below 2.0. He would have been ineligible to play anyway, although Boeheim would have found a loophole to get him eligible somehow.
> 
> Thats' why Boeheim wasn't crying or sad when Melo left because he knew that Melo was never a student to begin with. He was an athlete.


I don't think SU has ever had any students enter the program.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

*Re: Disagree*



> Originally posted by <b>sov82</b>!
> Last Year UCONN was 2-0 against Syracuse and won by 14 & 13 points. To say they would obviously be the #1 overall seed is a mistake. (No, I'm not saying UCONN would have been the #1 overall seed. I'm saying that more than likely Syracuse would have a few Ls up there from Big East Play alone).


Syracuse was the markedly better team then UConn last year, despite the fact that you whipped our butts twice. We just did not match up well against you guys, but we matched up against the rest of the NCAA much better then UConn.

SU certainly would have lost a few games, but I think 2 or 3 losses still would have earned us the #1,#1 seed.


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## Gtown07 (Dec 10, 2003)

Melo may have never been a student but Hong Kong your icon is Duke. So I'm assuming you're a duke fan and you've had a few of those yourself. (CMag supposedly played jan-mar of his yr at duke ineligibly.)

I dont think Melo not having 2.0 really matters. 

imagine Memphis 

DWags,Perkins, QWoods, and Banks? 

And yes Miss St. would be pretty good too.


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## KokoTheMonkey (Aug 4, 2003)

What if Memphis had: Dajuan Wagner, Antonio Burke, Sean Banks, Amare Stoudemire, Qyntel Woods, Rodney Carney....



Sorry, I had to carry on the trend.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Gtown07</b>!
> Melo may have never been a student but Hong Kong your icon is Duke. So I'm assuming you're a duke fan and you've had a few of those yourself. (CMag supposedly played jan-mar of his yr at duke ineligibly.)
> 
> I dont think Melo not having 2.0 really matters.


I can admit that Maggette was not eligible to play because supposedly the coaching staff didn't know Myron Piggie paid him. I don't know why Duke hasn't been reprimanded for it and I don't care, it's just sports. If they get it, I am glad justice is served, if not well there is nothing I can do about it.

As for as not having a 2.0 and why does it matter for Melo, Marcus Williams is on academic probation at UConn because of the exact same thing and yet Melo even with much worse grades was still eligible. I would wonder though how Syracuse could even keep him eligible for a sophomore year if he has a 1.3 GPA. When I was coming out of HS I was looking into broadcasting and Syracuse so I knew full well what their academic standards are.

I was merely stating that Melo would not have been eligible to even play, unless Syracuse officials overlooked it for the sake of winning basketball games.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>HoosierDaddy</b>!
> I love what if's. What if Luke Recker and Jared Jefferies stayed at IU?
> 
> Tom Coverdale
> ...


Nice call. :uhoh: 

Luke Recker was a freshmen in the freaking fall of 1997. He would have been in his sixth year of university. 

Who do you think Luke is? Jess Settles.


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## sov82 (Nov 5, 2003)

*...*

"Syracuse was the markedly better team then UConn last year"

UCONN was a possesion arrow away from the Final Four last year. UCONN would have beaten Texas if the ball, in the waning seconds, didn't get stuck in the rim. We were right there to rebound it and slam it home. Instead, it got stuck on the rim and PE to Texas. 

I dont see how Syracuse was "markedly better". Syracuse was a much more consistent team but not markedly better...especially at the end of the year.


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## MAS RipCity (Feb 22, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jamgod09</b>!
> What if he stayed in school would they defend national Championship?


Easily.


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## MAS RipCity (Feb 22, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>UKfan4Life</b>!
> What if, what if, what if, what if. What if Pitino let Derek Anderson play in the '97 championship game versus Arizona (this has been on my mind all day for some reason)? Would UK be in the hunt for title #9 instead of #8? Considering we took Arizona into overtime in that game without him, I'd have to say yes.
> 
> You can ask 'what if' all day, but I'll admit, these questions are fun to ask.  I'll have to go with yes, they probably would defend their crown, but anything can happen in March...


how come DA didn't get to play?


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

*Re: ...*



> Originally posted by <b>sov82</b>!
> "Syracuse was the markedly better team then UConn last year"
> 
> UCONN was a possesion arrow away from the Final Four last year. UCONN would have beaten Texas if the ball, in the waning seconds, didn't get stuck in the rim. We were right there to rebound it and slam it home. Instead, it got stuck on the rim and PE to Texas.
> ...


30-5, National Champions
23-10, Elite Eight

I Stand by my assessment, a very reasonable one at that.

BTW, when did consistent performance cease to become a significant attribute in comparing the value of teams? In a 6 game winner takes all format, consistency is damn important.


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## UKfan4Life (Mar 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>MAS RipCity</b>!
> 
> 
> how come DA didn't get to play?


The same reason he always seems to be injured. I believe it was his knee that he hurt, and the day before the championship game, he told Pitino he was fine, but Pitino didn't want to risk making it worse then having his great future ended because he let him play in the game. Pitino was trying to be safe and assured (DA did come in to hit 2 free throws once though), and there's nothing wrong with trying to make sure a player doesn't re-injure himself, but I don't think there's any doubt that if DA had played, we would've won.


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## kcchiefs-fan (Oct 28, 2002)

What if Baylor hadn't lost Roberts and Lucas, and Langford and Okafor had went ahead and signed? Freaking Baylor would be title contenders.

Anyway, if Melo had stayed and was eligible to play, there stands a very good chance they'd snag a one seed, though I don't think they'd be quite as good as many do. I'm of the personal opinion that their title last year was a fluke (moreso than the normal champion).......*runs and hides*


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## FSH (Aug 3, 2002)

What if Jason Richardson and Zach Randolph wouldnt have left Mich St there freshman year?


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Four_Season_Hustler</b>!
> What if Jason Richardson and Zach Randolph wouldnt have left Mich St there freshman year?


Richardson left as a sophomore, and he would have graduated last year.


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Four_Season_Hustler</b>!
> What if Jason Richardson and Zach Randolph wouldnt have left Mich St there freshman year?


i believe zach would still be there and taylor and lorbek also.


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## sov82 (Nov 5, 2003)

*hi*

Would you rather be the Yankees the past two years...or would you rather be the Angels/Marlins? Simply looking at the overall record doesnt indicate what team is better.

Its who's playing the best at the end of the season. Syracuse was not marketably better than UCONN at the end of last season. There is a chance factor in a tournament. It went against UCONN last year in their game against Texas. Things went right for Syracuse last year and they deserved to win the tournament...but I'm sure the Syracuse fans were very excited to see UCONN not make the final four as you are right, Syracuse did not match up well with UCONN last year. In fact, a healthy UCONN this year matches up even better with this years Syracuse team + Carmello.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

*Re: hi*



> Originally posted by <b>sov82</b>!
> 
> 
> Its who's playing the best at the end of the season. Syracuse was not marketably better than UCONN at the end of last season. There is a chance factor in a tournament. It went against UCONN last year in their game against Texas. Things went right for Syracuse last year and they deserved to win the tournament...but I'm sure the Syracuse fans were very excited to see UCONN not make the final four as you are right, Syracuse did not match up well with UCONN last year. In fact, a healthy UCONN this year matches up even better with this years Syracuse team + Carmello.



BTW, your UConn Team WAS NOT one possession away from the final four - * you were one game and one possession away from the final four *. UConn was eliminated in the Round of 16.

Your tournament run was not overly impressive - you beat a 12 by 5 points, and had a nice win against a 4 seed in Stanford. But once you faced a good team you lost.

So let's see UConn beat a 12 seed, a 4 seed, and lost to a 1 seed.

Syracuse beat an 11,6,10,1,1,2. Seems quite a bit more impressive.

But wait - there is more. You talk as if UConn was streaking as they marched into the tournament.

Here are the teams records from February 1 to the beginning of the tournament:

UConn: 8-6 (10-7 including the tournament)
Syracuse: 11-2 (17-2 including the tournament) (both losses came to you know who  )

So your assertion that both teams were playing evenly near the end of the year, is way off base IMO. UConn was just playing decently, SU was showing signs they can do damage come tourney time.

So at the end of the day:
Syracuse 30-5, 6 tournament wins (3-0 against 1&2 seed), 11-2 from Feb 1 to the tournament

UConn 23-10, 2 tournament wins, (0-1 against 1&2 seed), & 8-6 from Feb 1 to the tournament.

How you can say that UConn compared to SU last year is beyond me. I will not back off my statement, as I have the facts to back up my claim.


By denying that SU is markedly better then UConn, you are in essence denying that Duke is markedly better then Florida this year. Is that the case, do you think Florida is basically as good as Duke, but just less "consistent"


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## sov82 (Nov 5, 2003)

*hi*

Pointless thread...but looking solely at stats and final scores doesn't always show how a team was playing.

Syracuse won the national championship. They were the better team. UCONN got unlucky against Texas, in a game in which both teams played extremely well. If UCONN beat Texas, they matched up extremely well if Michigan State and Syracuse. They very well could have been in the national championship game. They could have been blown out in either of those games.

At the end of the day, Syracuse was the better team. I dont see them that much better than UCONN however.

GL in this years tournament.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

*Re: hi*



> Originally posted by <b>sov82</b>!
> Pointless thread...but looking solely at stats and final scores doesn't always show how a team was playing.


Wow ... great counterpoint


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## sov82 (Nov 5, 2003)

*what if*

What if threads are pointless. You have your opinion. I have mine.

Watching the SYU now, Gerry is having an insane game. Good for him. Warrick better get his act together if Syracuse is going anywhere. He is jogging around and with 8mins left in the game, I count 2 whole rebounds for him. He needs to step up his intensity just like Gerry has.

Good Luck.


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## jmk (Jun 30, 2002)

I'll add in my own what-if? What if Chris Wilcox would have stayed at UMD last year? I have no doubt in my mind they would have won the National Championship. And what is Wilcox was still there?

Smith
Wilcox
Caner-Medley
McCray
Gilchrist

Back-to back-to back champions?

A good chance, but the point is, it's pointless to say "what if?" What if I was 7 foot 8 and 240 lbs? Well, I'm not. So, who cares?


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## sMaK (Jun 13, 2002)

What if Chris Bosh stayed at GT? 

What if Caron Butler wouldve stayed for at least his junior year? Emeka Okafor, Ben Gordon, Caron Butler...


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

What if Darius Rice had left the University of Miami after last year.

They might have been good this year.


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## sMaK (Jun 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>JuniorNoboa</b>!
> What if Darius Rice had left the University of Miami after last year.
> 
> They might have been good this year.


Sadly it's so true


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## jamgod09 (Mar 13, 2004)

*thats real funny*

thats hilarious but might be true


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## thrillhouse (Apr 18, 2003)

Michigan State could have been
C Paul Davis
PF Zach Randolph
SF Alan Anderson/Kelvin Torbert
SG Chris Hill
PG Marcus Taylor


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## Ron Mexico (Feb 14, 2004)

What if "what if" wasn't a word what would we say?


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## jmk (Jun 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Sboydell</b>!
> What if "what if" wasn't a word what would we say?


I don't believe "what if" is a *word* that we can say.


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## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>jmk</b>!
> 
> 
> I don't believe "what if" is a *word* that we can say.


^^ Gotta be careful with Mr. Dictionary round here:grinning:


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## TexasFan (Mar 21, 2004)

I'm sorry, but you guys are missing by far the most important "what if" of this year.

What if TJ Ford stayed at Texas?
the loss of TJ was somewhat counteracted by the gain of Kenny Taylor, PJ Tucker, and Edgar Moreno, but having TJ along with these 3 (or atleast the first two) would have to be one of the best two teams in the NCAA this year.

Ford, Ivey, Mouton, Tucker, Klotz/Thomas is a pretty damn good starting 5 to go along with our depth that is already the nation's best.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>TexasFan</b>!
> I'm sorry, but you guys are missing by far the most important "what if" of this year.


By far???

Nope.

#1. Carmelo Anthony
#2. T.J Ford


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## TexasFan (Mar 21, 2004)

Carmelo Anthony is a great player by himself but he does not make his team better in the way that TJ ford does.

Look at the Bucks ever since he went down....

TJ Ford is more valuable to Texas than Anthony is to Syracuse.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>TexasFan</b>!
> Carmelo Anthony is a great player by himself but he does not make his team better in the way that TJ ford does.
> 
> Look at the Bucks ever since he went down....
> ...


Texas w/o Ford - 3 seed
Syracuse w/o Melo - 5 seed.

Who misses who the most?


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## kcchiefs-fan (Oct 28, 2002)

That's actually a damn good argument to be made. I think Texas may be better than Syracuse assuming each respective team's All-American had come back for another season.

What if Deshawn Stevenson had ended up coming to Kansas, and this would've been the lineup a couple years ago:

F- Gooden
F- Collison
G- Stevenson
G- Boschee
G- Hinrich

Bench: Miles, Langford, Simien, Carrey, Lee, Ballard


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>kcchiefs-fan</b>!
> 
> What if Deshawn Stevenson had ended up coming to Kansas


That's a silly question - everyone knows that Stevenson would not go to college because the girls were too old.


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## TexasFan (Mar 21, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>JuniorNoboa</b>!
> Texas w/o Ford - 3 seed
> Syracuse w/o Melo - 5 seed.
> 
> Who misses who the most?





> Originally posted by <b>TexasFan</b>
> the loss of TJ was somewhat counteracted by the gain of Kenny Taylor, PJ Tucker, and Edgar Moreno



Texas has certainly managed to adapt to life without ford, but that doesn't mean his effect is reduced. Put Ford on this Texas team that has played all year without him and they'd blow everyone out of the water...


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## kcchiefs-fan (Oct 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>JuniorNoboa</b>!
> 
> 
> That's a silly question - everyone knows that Stevenson would not go to college because the girls were too old.


:laugh:


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>KokoTheMonkey</b>!
> What if Memphis had: Dajuan Wagner, Antonio Burke, Sean Banks, Amare Stoudemire, Qyntel Woods, Rodney Carney....
> 
> 
> ...


Carmelo would have never lead his team to the NCAA championship and gotten the same hype.

Memphis wins the NCAA championship. Amare leaves after his freshman season and is the #1 pick unless the Cavs had the #1 pick.


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