# What's wrong with the Mavs



## STING (May 29, 2002)

At this point, there is 4:13 left in the first quarter. After watching the game so far, I wasn't able to wait for the end of the game to say why i think the mavs are going to have problems. The reason? Overpopulation. Too many stars. It works in baseball, God knows it works in football, but in basketball, I think this will be the year that teams forever are reminded that role players are more than just players you have because you can't afford better.

The Mavs have two star players that do their best work at the Small forward position. Jamison and Nowitzki. None of these guys are bench players, and you are seeing why right now, as the score is now 23 to 8. Twan really should be a SF, but he can play the PF position well enough. However this still leaves Jamison and Nowitzki as the two SF's in the team that should BOTH be starters, but it's not going to work that way, because Nash and Finley aren't going anywhere, and you can forget Nowitzki being a center, even if he is a seven footer. Even if the Mavericks find a way to win with Fortson slowing down their old run and gun style, Jamison is not going to be happy forever playing off the bench, this guy has too much potential and talent to be taking a downgrade from his upcoming superstar status he would have acheived at Golden State if he was still there. The solution? The Mavs need to make a trade, there is no way that this is ever going to pan out. Why? You have five players that absolutely MUST be starters, it is ludacris for any of these players to be on the bench with their talent. Nash, Finley, Walker, Jamison, and Nowitzki. None of these players can play center, so this leaves 5 players that now must be crammed in 4 slots. It's simple math, and i'm surprised that these shmucks didn't think of it before they brought all these guys in. It should be obvious that you have an unbalanced team when you have a guy like Jamison on the bench and Danny Fortson starting. They need to make a move... fast


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## ToddMacCulloch11 (May 31, 2003)

I'm not saying if you are right or wrong, but I think give it more time. It takes time for teams to gel. I wouldn't give up on them yet.


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## Pistolballer (May 9, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>ToddMacCulloch11</b>!
> I'm not saying if you are right or wrong, but I think give it more time. It takes time for teams to gel. I wouldn't give up on them yet.


exactly, Fortson, Jamison and Walker haven't been there very long


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## RoyWilliams (May 25, 2003)

They are gettin it together now.


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## chapi (Apr 4, 2003)

****ty game by nash (at halftime)


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## Stinger (Jun 10, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>chapi</b>!
> ****ty game by nash (at halftime)


Ditto with Finely. The big three is Dirk, Antawn and Antoine in the first half. If Finely and Nash contribute a little more and those three keep doing what they're doing, the Mavs will come back.


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## Like A Breath (Jun 16, 2003)

I don't think they're going to have any problems, they're just not hitting their shots. The team looks very unselfish so far.


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## INTELLECT (Nov 22, 2002)

man walker is on fire


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## Petey (Aug 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>INTELLECT</b>!
> man walker is on fire


Yes, but I just posted this elsewhere, you have to realize he will carry this game and attitude for a while and keep firing up 3s even if he is missing. He did this vs. the Nets. Even when they didn't fall he keep jacking them up. Now he has no excuse he will need to pass a bit more as the season goes on. In the end... I think he'll make the Celtics look silly for Walker-LaFrentz.

-Petey


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## INTELLECT (Nov 22, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Petey</b>!
> 
> 
> Yes, but I just posted this elsewhere, you have to realize he will carry this game and attitude for a while and keep firing up 3s even if he is missing. He did this vs. the Nets. Even when they didn't fall he keep jacking them up. Now he has no excuse he will need to pass a bit more as the season goes on. In the end... I think he'll make the Celtics look silly for Walker-LaFrentz.
> ...


man he's not forcxing nothing kid. Nash and finley are disappointing me. they sposed to be the captains and they aren't doing nothing.


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## Petey (Aug 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>INTELLECT</b>!
> man he's not forcxing nothing kid. Nash and finley are disappointing me. they sposed to be the captains and they aren't doing nothing.


It's not a matter of forcing shots, he had a very sad and disappointing 3% last year. He isn't Reggie Miller. Those shots will eventually bounce out, or just get some rim. He has to build plays for others while he has other PF drawn out to cover him. 

-Petey


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

One word: Uniforms.


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## Chops (May 30, 2002)

The Uniforms Look Like Some Kind Of Space Suit.. Other Than That, What's Wrong With The Mavs Is They Have No Chemistry Yet..


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## INTELLECT (Nov 22, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Petey</b>!
> 
> 
> It's not a matter of forcing shots, he had a very sad and disappointing 3% last year. He isn't Reggie Miller. Those shots will eventually bounce out, or just get some rim. He has to build plays for others while he has other PF drawn out to cover him.
> ...


petey i'm really trying to refrain from cussing. WHen did anyone ever say he was reggie miller? Who cares what he did against the nets last year? gary payton played horrid against the bucks last year. Does that mean he'll do it this year? brand new team different outlook different role. Dang. You can't even admit he's playing well tonight.


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## ToddMacCulloch11 (May 31, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>INTELLECT</b>!
> 
> 
> petey i'm really trying to refrain from cussing. WHen did anyone ever say he was reggie miller? Who cares what he did against the nets last year? gary payton played horrid against the bucks last year. Does that mean he'll do it this year? brand new team different outlook different role. Dang. You can't even admit he's playing well tonight.



He is playing well tonight, but what world are you living in where you think that antoine walker doesn't force 3 pointers?


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## INTELLECT (Nov 22, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ToddMacCulloch11</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> He is playing well tonight, but what world are you living in where you think that antoine walker doesn't force 3 pointers?


i 
said 
he 
is 
not 
forcing 
shots
tonight 
can 
u 
understand 
me 
now
?

*edited: Any more posts where you enter them one word per line will be deleted. It's annoying, you clearly mean it patronizingly and it clutters threads.*


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## Petey (Aug 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>INTELLECT</b>!
> 
> 
> petey i'm really trying to refrain from cussing. WHen did anyone ever say he was reggie miller? Who cares what he did against the nets last year? gary payton played horrid against the bucks last year. Does that mean he'll do it this year? brand new team different outlook different role. Dang. You can't even admit he's playing well tonight.


I'm glad you are not cussing, because you ARE NOT READING. Please re-read my first post. You said he was on fire. I said what?

"Yes, but I..."

So yes I am agreeing. I'm just saying I hope this type of play doesn't go on all year where he tried to jack 3s like last year. 

It is a different team, he has a different role, but in his first regular season game, seems he is playing the role he played last year right?

-Petey


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## ToddMacCulloch11 (May 31, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>INTELLECT</b>!
> 
> *edited*


I
forg
ot
tha
t
yo
ur
opi
ni
on w
as th
e rig
ht one.


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## INTELLECT (Nov 22, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ToddMacCulloch11</b>!
> 
> *edited*


man don't try to comment or speak on something if you can't get it right. I never said walker didn't force anything. I said he didn't force it tonight. how hard is it to undertand that?


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## vanhill (May 31, 2003)

today,they look pretty bad in defense..u know what?it is all because of shaq,they dont hv a strong low post player...so they must double or triple team shaq..thats y there are so many open 3 pointers 4 lakers...however,most of the teams in nba dun really have a strong center like shaq~so it shouldnt be a problem for Mavs...and they should start the 5 Aces!


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## Petey (Aug 23, 2002)

*Please stop the childish behavior, otherwise we'll have alot to clean up.*

-Petey


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## The_Franchise (Mar 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Petey</b>!
> *Please stop the childish behavior, otherwise we'll have alot to clean up.*
> 
> -Petey


Are you censoring yourself?


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## Petey (Aug 23, 2002)

No, I'm just making sure it's seen, that is all.

-Petey


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## INTELLECT (Nov 22, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>The Franchise</b>!
> 
> 
> Are you censoring yourself?


no doubt man. This is stupid. Now you can't even type the way you want to on here? LOl you can't do shyt on ths board. Don't do this. Don't do that. No matter what you do the mods find a way to whine about it


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## Petey (Aug 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>INTELLECT</b>!
> 
> 
> no doubt man. This is stupid. Now you can't even type the way you want to on here? LOl you can't do shyt on ths board. Don't do this. Don't do that. No matter what you do the mods find a way to whine about it


Does it really serve a purpose to post like that?

You have to realize it's bothersome to some people.

Try to be fair.

-Petey


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## The_Franchise (Mar 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>INTELLECT</b>!
> 
> 
> no doubt man. This is stupid. Now you can't even type the way you want to on here? LOl you can't do shyt on ths board. Don't do this. Don't do that. No matter what you do the mods find a way to whine about it


There's a difference between arguing and fighting. You were fighting.


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## INTELLECT (Nov 22, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>The Franchise</b>!
> 
> 
> There's a difference between arguing and fighting. You were fighting.


fighting? were there blows thrown? was their name calling? No there wasn't. I backed up what I said with facts. Peeps came at me in a sarcastic manner then when "intellect' is sarcastic in his own way he's the "bad guy" Hilarious. I won't "be bad" no more. I'LL JUST SAY GO MAVS IN EVERY THREAD FROM NOW ON since you can't debate on this board without the mods going power crazy


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## The_Franchise (Mar 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>INTELLECT</b>!
> 
> 
> fighting? were there blows thrown?


Well...



> Originally posted by <b>INTELLECT</b>!
> 
> 
> man don't try to comment or speak on something if you can't get it right. I never said walker didn't force anything. I said he didn't force it tonight. how hard is it to undertand that?





> Originally posted by <b>INTELLECT</b>!
> 
> 
> petey i'm really trying to refrain from cussing.





> Originally posted by <b>INTELLECT</b>!
> 
> can
> u
> ...


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## INTELLECT (Nov 22, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>The Franchise</b>!
> 
> 
> Well...


*shakes head like idiot* GO MAVS *nods head like retard* GO MAVS "that's all i have to say bout that"


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## 1 Penny (Jul 11, 2003)

Mavs can have a great system with the following.


G: Nash
F: Jamison
F: Walker
F: Nowitski
C: Fortson


Where's Finley?
Anyone notice, that he hardly got to do his "thing", when Walker/Jamison was on. Jamison and Walker played good together... Dirk suits them too. But Finley looked lost.. he looked like he is missing out.

I wouldn't be surprise if a trade involving Finley for a big man occurs.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>1 Penny</b>!
> Mavs can have a great system with the following.
> 
> 
> ...


I agree. Finley just doesn't assert himself like he should. However, his defense is valuable at the 2. I don't know if I'd want him traded. But they need to figure some better way to use him. He needs to go to the basket more instead of being a spot up shooter. He's a nice shooter, but he's a much better slasher.

All I know though, is that Dirk, Walker, and Jamison is a nasty frontline. I know they shot [edit] tonigh(except for walker) but those guys can do damage. Walker proved he can be a huge asset against Shaq, with his ability to fall over and then come down and force shaq out to the 3 point line.

And in spite of everything, this is so clearly Dirk's team. Which is impressive.


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## Big John (Sep 11, 2002)

What is it about Walker that brings out the worst in people? Hey, Antoine didn't force any 3's last night. They were all wide open and taken in rhythm. That's why they went in-- nothing but net. When he starts forcing them, believe me you'll know it.

The Mavs lost because Nash, Nowitski and Finley threw up enough bricks in the first half to build a house, while guys like Devean George and Derek Fisher were on fire for LA.

I think Nelson should have put Walker on Malone and should have used a commitee (Fortson, Bradley, Najera) to "hack-a-Shaq." It might not have worked, but neither did putting Walker on Shaq.


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## double3peat (Aug 18, 2003)

You guys are ignoring the main reason Dallas lost:

Lakers kick some major [edit]

32 assists(23 just from the big 3). I don't think we had trouble sharing the ball at all :laugh: 

Can you imagine what would have happened to Dallas if we had a healthy kobe?


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## LionOfJudah (May 27, 2003)

The Mavs starters haven't really had the chance to work together much due to minor injuries and huge trades. Walker played good for only being with his new team for a week or so. Finley played like he hasn't played all preseason.... which he pretty much hasn't. Dirk's played like he was tired of being in the paint on D so his O suffered IMO. I don't know what happened to Nash... guess he's waiting for the playoffs to really play, like Shaq did last year. 

It wasn't a total loss in my mind either.... Shaq was held only to 16 points. Once the offense starts flowing and the shots falling the wins will come.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>double3peat</b>!
> 
> Can you imagine what would have happened to Dallas if we had a healthy kobe?


It probably wouldn't have been as pretty a game by the lakers.

Kobe doesn't know how to share.:no: 

Shaq, Payton, and Malone have great chemistry, and I didn't like what Kobe tried to do when he played with them in preseason. I honestly think if they had say Rip Hamilton instead of Kobe this season it would make things a lot smoother sailing.

But yeah. The Lakers won because the Mavs shot below 40 percent for much of the game while they shot a very healthy percentage.

And I actually thought Antioine did a good job on Shaq. There were a few times where he let Shaq get position too low to do anything about it, but for the most part he did a little better than expected.


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## Natty Dreadlockz (Jul 21, 2003)

Start Nash(pg)..Howard(sg)..Tawn(sf)..Toine(pf) and Dirk(c)... Howard can guard the perimeter... And Dirk's really the team's best rebounder... That leaves ya... Best(sg)..Delk(sg)..Finley(sf)..Najera(pf) and Fortson(c) as the second unit... The second unit could be the defensive force wit Finley as the scorer... What ya think?... Peace


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## Natty Dreadlockz (Jul 21, 2003)

> And I actually thought Antioine did a good job on Shaq. There were a few times where he let Shaq get position too low to do anything about it, but for the most part he did a little better than expected.


Yeah... When he was flat on his back after consecutive Shaq layup's... I ain't see the need for either to be guardin one another... I guess the Lakes don't believe in playin a zone against mismatches... Peace


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## Obi-Wan Nowitzki (Jun 2, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Eagle</b>!
> Start Nash(pg)..Howard(sg)..Tawn(sf)..Toine(pf) and Dirk(c)... Howard can guard the perimeter... And Dirk's really the team's best rebounder... That leaves ya... Best(sg)..Delk(sg)..Finley(sf)..Najera(pf) and Fortson(c) as the second unit... The second unit could be the defensive force wit Finley as the scorer... What ya think?... Peace


You CLEARLY have better lineups that you could put on the floor than the one quoted by Eagle. I don't want to start Howard when you could put Finley or even possibly Walker out there at the two. The way that they're doing it right now is the best way.

Starting Unit
C-Fortson
PF-Dirk/Walker
SF-Walker/Dirk
SG-Finley
PG-Nash

Ending Unit
C-Dirk
PF-Walker
SF-Jamison
SG-Finley
PG-Nash

You don't want to start Dirk at center because he'll end up with too many early fouls and has a better chance of injury. I didn't get to see the game yesterday, but I'm guessing that they had Dirk at center when Shaq was out, which is the way to play it.

And whoever was talking about Jamison not liking to come off of the bench, yesterday he got the same exact minutes as Walker and Dirk and four more minutes that Nash and Finley. I don't think it'll be a problem finding him minutes.
------------------------------------------
OT: Isn't it REALLY easy to type Finley's name as Finely? I see it all the time and have to correct myself sometimes. It just flows better off the keyboard, I guess.


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## Nevus (Jun 3, 2003)

The Mavericks were horrible... if they don't figure something out they will lose a lot this season. They just have too many players who don't know how to play when they aren't the #1 or #2 option. It's not their fault, it isn't selfishness, it's just that they have no experience and no rhythm having such a reduced role. Nobody seems to know who should be doing what.

Ugly!


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## INTELLECT (Nov 22, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Nevus</b>!
> The Mavericks were horrible... if they don't figure something out they will lose a lot this season. They just have too many players who don't know how to play when they aren't the #1 or #2 option. It's not their fault, it isn't selfishness, it's just that they have no experience and no rhythm having such a reduced role. Nobody seems to know who should be doing what.
> 
> Ugly!


it has nothing to do with the lack of practice together as a team? And I'm sorry the mavs starting lineup should be

bradley
walker
Dirk
Fin
Nash


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## MightyReds2020 (Jul 19, 2002)

I think the main issue is their interior defense. It was pretty much non-existent last night. I also think Don Nelson was testing the lineup more than trying to win a game.


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## LionOfJudah (May 27, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>INTELLECT</b>!
> 
> 
> it has nothing to do with the lack of practice together as a team? And I'm sorry the mavs starting lineup should be
> ...


They started bradley the 1st of last year and went 14-0.... Shawn B. would be good for a few fouls then put in Fortson. But Dirk at C is just not good. It will take him forever to get used to playing the 5 if ever. And its exausting playing with the bigs in the paint for someone who isn't used to it. Which I think was the problem with his shot last night.....


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## Charlotte_______ (May 18, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>INTELLECT</b>!
> 
> 
> it has nothing to do with the lack of practice together as a team? And I'm sorry the mavs starting lineup should be
> ...


The only problem I see with Bradley is, ever since hes come in the league, hes had this big sign that reads " Please Dunk on me" And when teams see him, they attack him. Fortson has some body mass so hes a little bit more difficult for some players.


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## INTELLECT (Nov 22, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Charlotte_______</b>!
> 
> 
> The only problem I see with Bradley is, ever since hes come in the league, hes had this big sign that reads " Please Dunk on me" And when teams see him, they attack him. Fortson has some body mass so hes a little bit more difficult for some players.


yet he'll get dunked on but at least he can alter shots and block them as well. with fortson out there the mavs had no one to protect the rim. Being able to body bigger post players does no good if the rest of the team is slashing to the cup for easy baskets all night cause you don't have some type of shot blocking presence in the middle sometime


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## Natty Dreadlockz (Jul 21, 2003)

> You CLEARLY have better lineups that you could put on the floor than the one quoted by Eagle. I don't want to start Howard when you could put Finley or even possibly Walker out there at the two. The way that they're doing it right now is the best way


Mavsfan... CLEARLY?... Hear me out... Finley wasn't a factor defensively against George nor Fisher... Two average guard's... If ya don't like Howard startin at the 2 start Toine there... Maybe it's jus me... But that lineup they put out on the floor to start the game was terrible... Fortson's like 6'6... There's a reason Foyle and Dampier were startin ova him in G.S... Even yourself said that Toine did a better job guardin Shaq... I feel ya reason's for not wantin to start Dirk at C... But somethin's gonna have to be done... Cuz neither Fortson or Bradley will provide ya the D nor reboundin to go head up wit the West's big's... Peace


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## mavsman (Jun 11, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Eagle</b>!
> 
> Mavsfan... CLEARLY?... Hear me out... Finley wasn't a factor defensively against George nor Fisher... Two average guard's... If ya don't like Howard startin at the 2 start Toine there... Maybe it's jus me... But that lineup they put out on the floor to start the game was terrible... Fortson's like 6'6... There's a reason Foyle and Dampier were startin ova him in G.S... Even yourself said that Toine did a better job guardin Shaq... I feel ya reason's for not wantin to start Dirk at C... But somethin's gonna have to be done... Cuz neither Fortson or Bradley will provide ya the D nor reboundin to go head up wit the West's big's... Peace


I disagree. Actually I think Fortson was doing a fine job on Shaq.
How many points did Shaq score when Fortson was in there? I
don't have the numbers but I don't remember Shaq being the one
that hurt us during that awful first quarter.

But I do think the offense was totally out of sync when Fortson
was in there. Maybe that was because they were nervous in the
beginning of that game and it took a while to settle down. But
once Fortson went out the offense looked alot better. I think
that it is going to take a while for them to learn how to play
together, both offensively and defensively. Anyway I don't
remember Fortson going back into the game after that unless it
was in the last 5 minutes when I decided to go to sleep.

As far as him being 6'6" that is crap. He is 6'8" and is built like
an Ox. Whether or not he will work out as a Center remains to
be seen but I am not going to declare this a failure based on
the first 14 minutes of the first game on the road in L.A.


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## reHEATed (Jun 29, 2003)

One thing wrong with them are those uniforms:dead: 

On the court, what was wrong was they faced big deisel and had nobody to stop him. Also, the mavs have to get used to eachother more. Give it some time


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## Natty Dreadlockz (Jul 21, 2003)

> As far as him being 6'6" that is crap. He is 6'8" and is built like


My bad it's Mavsman... He's 6'7... When you look at Finley and Fortson their the same height... He's built like an Ox and might be able to man the C position in the long run... The comment's that I made were my opinion after watchin his college and pro career's up to this point.


> Whether or not he will work out as a Center remains to
> be seen but I am not going to declare this a failure based on
> the first 14 minutes of the first game on the road in L.A.


I ain't sayin the Mavs will fail... But let's be real... Wit all the matchup prob's small ball will provide for the Mavs... We'll... I guess it's a two edged sword... Your right though... Nothin can really be made of their season off of one game against the Lakes... They'll get it together after a lil more time playin together... Peace


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## LowBudget (Sep 23, 2003)

Fortson is a very bad defender. All he cares for is rebounds. I think the mavs should start Bradley at center and have fortson as a backup.


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## STING (May 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>1 Penny</b>!
> Mavs can have a great system with the following.
> 
> 
> ...


That won't give them a great system. There is a reason that a team has a shooting guard, and Antwan Jamison is not a ***** shooting guard. In that system you'll have little quick guys like ivey penetrating at will with nobody of equal speed besides nash to guard them. Basketball is more than just getting five of the best players you can get reguardless of their positions and putting them out together on the floor. The bottom line is Jamison and Nowitzki are never going to play a position AS effictively as they play the SF position, and neither of these players deserves to be on the bench. Maybe they can win, and maybe they can still gel, but i think there is always room for roster adjustments when you have danny fortson starting and Jamison on the bench.


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## benfica (Jul 17, 2002)

*The Mavs lineup is broke*

I don't say I didn't warn after the Walker Trade. Anyone
else noticed how good the Celtics looked lately, nice
chemistry.

It was a stupid trade and I stand by it.


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## LionOfJudah (May 27, 2003)

*Re: The Mavs lineup is broke*



> Originally posted by <b>benfica</b>!
> I don't say I didn't warn after the Walker Trade. Anyone
> else noticed how good the Celtics looked lately, nice
> chemistry.
> ...


That was another stupid post if you ask me... and I'll stand by That.

Chemistry after only one week would be pretty amazing...


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