# Official Game Thread: Pistons @ Chicago 7:30pm WGN /	NBATVHighDef



## BenDengGo (Feb 1, 2004)

*Official Game Thread: Pistons @ Chicago 7:30pm WGN / NBATVHighDef*

<center>*Rev 'er up and throw a piston!* 








*VS*









*Season Records*
*Detroit Pistons (12-2) (7-1 on road) @ Chicago Bulls (8-6) (4-1 at home)









United Center, Chicago, Illinois, Saturday December 3rd, 2005
Detroit Pistons @ Chicago 7:30pm WGN NBATVHighDef*

<b><blink>STARTING LINEUPS</blink></b>





































*Colorado-6'3-BILLUPS <> UConn-6'7-HAMILTON <> Kentucky-6'9-PRINCE <> UNC-6'11-WALLACE <> Virginia Union-6'9-WALLACE*

*VS* 





































*Duke-6'1-DUHON <> Kansas-6'3-HINRICH <> Tau Ceramica-6'7-NOCIONI <> G'town-6'8-SWEETNEY <> Dominguez-7'1-CHANDLER*


<b><blink>Key Bench Players</blink></b>






























*6'2-ARROYO <> 6'5-EVANS <> 6'9-McDYESS <> 7'-MILICIC*

*---*






























*6'2-GORDON <> 6'9-DENG <> 6'8-SONGAILA <> 6'9-HARRINGTON*


*Individual Team Leaders:*

<table border="3" bordercolor="#000000" width="50%"><tbody><tr align="center"><td>*BULLS*</td><td> 
</td><td>*PISTONS*</td></tr><tr align="center"><td>HINRICH 35,7</td><td>*MPG*</td><td>PRINCE 38,4</td></tr><tr align="center"><td>GORDON 14,9</td><td>*PPG*</td><td>HAMILTON 22,6</td></tr><tr align="center"><td>CHANDLER 9,8</td><td>*RPG*</td><td>B.WALLACE 12</td></tr><tr align="center"><td>HINRICH 7,3</td><td>*APG*</td><td>BILLUPS 8,4</td></tr><tr align="center"></tr><tr align="center"><td>DUHON 1,31</td><td>*SPG*</td><td>R.WALLACE 1,79</td></tr><tr align="center"><td>CHANDLER .86</td><td>*BPG*</td><td>B.WALLACE 1,79</td></tr></tr><tr align="center"><td>CHANDLER .557</td><td>*FG%*</td><td>HAMILTON .521</td></tr></tr><tr align="center"><td>NOCIONI .474</td><td>*3P%*</td><td>HAMILTON .524</td></tr></tr></tbody></table>
*BDG's Tag of the Day Competition
todays tag brought to you by*
*TomBoerwinkle#1*







</center>


----------



## El Chapu (Oct 23, 2004)

I dont know if there is any team in the league with more back-to-back sets than the Bulls (20). 

The Knicks have 16, If im not mistaken. 


****.


:curse:


----------



## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Detroit is 11-2 as I write this.

Rip is having an all-star season, 21.2 PPG and over 50% FG.

In fact, the Pistons' top 4 scorers are better than our best. And they have Ben Wallace, too.

On paper, this is a very tough game for the Bulls to win.


----------



## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

El Chapu said:


> I dont know if there is any team in the league with more back-to-back sets than the Bulls (20).
> 
> The Knicks have 16, If im not mistaken.
> 
> ...


That's quite a bit. Skiles doesn't want to use it as an excuse but playing regularly really helps. However we did benefit a bit on the long layoff before the Spurs games. So there are some good things that can come out of it. Still, I prefer a steady schedule. 

The Lakers have 14 back-to-backs
The Heat have 16
The Spurs have 16
The Pistons have 18 with 3 "4 in 5 days" including an away-home-away-home
We have 20 with 3 "4 in 5 days"

<table class="gScGTable" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"> <tbody><tr><td class="gSGRowEven" valign="top">Tue 29</td> <td class="gSGRowEven" valign="top"> Orlando </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="gSGRowOdd" valign="top"> Wed 30</td> <td class="gSGRowOdd" valign="top"> @ New York </td> </tr> </tbody> </table> <table class="gScGTable" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" height="54" width="199"> <tbody><tr> <td class="gScGHeader" width="60">* Dec*</td> <td class="gScGHeader" width="40">







</td> <td class="gScGHeader" width="165">*Opponent*</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" class="gSGRowEven"> Fri 2</td> <td class="gSGRowEven"> <!-- REMOVE THIS CHOOSE BELOW LEAVE @ --> @ <!-- REMOVE AFTER 10/21/2005 - HM --> Boston </td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" class="gSGRowOdd"> Sat 3</td> <td class="gSGRowOdd"> <!-- REMOVE AFTER 10/21/2005 - HM --> Detroit </td> </tr></tbody> </table>
<table class="gScGTable" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"> <tbody><tr><td colspan="2" class="gSGRowEven"> Tue 13</td> <td class="gSGRowEven"> <!-- REMOVE AFTER 10/21/2005 - HM --> Miami  </td> <td class="gSGRowEven"> 7:30pm</td> <td class="gSGRowEven"> 
</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" class="gSGRowOdd"> Wed 14</td> <td class="gSGRowOdd"> <!-- REMOVE THIS CHOOSE BELOW LEAVE @ --> @ <!-- REMOVE AFTER 10/21/2005 - HM --> Toronto </td> <td class="gSGRowOdd"> 6:00pm</td> <td class="gSGRowOdd"> 
</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" class="gSGRowEven"> Fri 16</td> <td class="gSGRowEven"> <!-- REMOVE THIS CHOOSE BELOW LEAVE @ --> @ <!-- REMOVE AFTER 10/21/2005 - HM --> Detroit </td> <td class="gSGRowEven"> 7:00pm</td> <td class="gSGRowEven"> 
</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" class="gSGRowOdd"> Sat 17</td>  <td class="gSGRowOdd"> <!-- REMOVE AFTER 10/21/2005 - HM --> Boston  </td> <td class="gSGRowOdd"> 7:30pm</td> </tr></tbody> </table> 
Mar <table class="gScGTable" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"> <tbody><tr><td colspan="2" class="gSGRowEven"> Tue 7</td> <td class="gSGRowEven"> <!-- REMOVE AFTER 10/21/2005 - HM --> New Jersey  </td> <td class="gSGRowEven"> 7:30pm</td> <td class="gSGRowEven"> 
</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" class="gSGRowOdd"> Wed 8</td> <td class="gSGRowOdd"> <!-- REMOVE THIS CHOOSE BELOW LEAVE @ --> @ <!-- REMOVE AFTER 10/21/2005 - HM --> Detroit </td> <td class="gSGRowOdd"> 6:30pm</td> <td class="gSGRowOdd"> 
</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" class="gSGRowEven"> Fri 10</td> <td class="gSGRowEven"> <!-- REMOVE AFTER 10/21/2005 - HM --> L.A. Clippers  </td> <td class="gSGRowEven"> 7:30pm</td> <td class="gSGRowEven"> 
</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" class="gSGRowOdd"> Sat 11</td>  <td class="gSGRowOdd"> <!-- REMOVE THIS CHOOSE BELOW LEAVE @ --> @ <!-- REMOVE AFTER 10/21/2005 - HM --> Atlanta </td> <td class="gSGRowOdd"> 6:00pm</td> </tr></tbody> </table>


----------



## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

Quick thoughts from a post I made in the Celtics game thread:

-- We have, give or take a game for counting errors, just about the same number of back-to-backs as the Cavs, Hawks, and Bucks.

-- Eastern Conference teams typically and historically have a lot more back-to-backs simply because they aren't as spread out geographically.

-- Peter May (in a column from last year) said that if there's any one "conspiracy theory" that is believed by a preponderance of players, coaches, and execs, it's that the league gives better teams fewer back-to-backs. It may be a coincidence in the case of West teams, but the Heat's absurdly low number says something (although Miami is the most geographically isolated team in the East). The Bulls and Hawks have played the most back-to-backs since 1999.

-- The Bucks have a brutal stretch in February -- a four-game-in-five-night stretch leading up to a six-day break for All-Star weekend, then another four-game-in-five night after that. Sheesh.


----------



## El Chapu (Oct 23, 2004)

Well, I guess you can compare their (Heat) schedule this year with what they got in past seasons when they werent as good or as highly regarded. The same applies to other teams. What about the Dynasty Bulls and our present Bulls?


----------



## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

Pistons get more "respect" from the refs in this league then probably anybody else. So get ready for another parade to the FT line by a Bulls opponent. Of course, this happens in every Bulls-Pistons matchup so we're used to it.

Pistons 97 
Bulls 92


----------



## El Chapu (Oct 23, 2004)

Pistons 88
Bulls 85

Hamilton 26 points / 4 rebounds
Gordon 21 points / 2 steals


----------



## Copper (Dec 9, 2004)

This game should be pretty interesting, Ben is hobbled by 2 sore ankles and it is showing in the interior defense lately, and our rebounding. Chandler should have a field day. I just think that the way Rip Tay and Billups are playing I dont think the Bulls can match it, 4th quarter poise has been the Pistons calling card so far this season. 103-92 Pistons Tay w/26 Gordon 22


----------



## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

In order for us to have a chance, all of our top players need to bring it! All of them.


----------



## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

ya'll must of forgot we split the series with them last year...

the pistons aren't that DIFFICULT for us to beat...we tend to get in their heads more than most teams in the league


----------



## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

The ROY said:


> ya'll must of forgot we split the series with them last year...
> 
> the pistons aren't that DIFFICULT for us to beat...we tend to get in their heads more than most teams in the league


We had AD then. If Antonio was still with us? Then yeah, I would not be so gloom playing Detroit.


----------



## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

The ROY said:


> ya'll must of forgot we split the series with them last year...
> 
> the pistons aren't that DIFFICULT for us to beat...we tend to get in their heads more than most teams in the league


Yeah, but those games if I remember were dependent on good-great performances by Curry. Its hard to tell what they'll do against the Pistons, but we generally do good with teams similiar to us, Case in Point, San Antonio Spurs/New York Knicks. The teams that play great defense, but a bit of sluggish offense at times we play good with. So this should be a pretty good game.


----------



## The Krakken (Jul 17, 2002)

I'm officially dumping Comcast, for their refusal to honor the fact that I pay for NBATVHD, by blacking the games out in NBALP. 

On January 1, I'm going Dishnetwork.


----------



## ndistops (Oct 31, 2005)

I had a dream last night that the Bulls won this game.

That's enough for me to go with them.

Bulls 94
Pistons 93


----------



## Frankensteiner (Dec 29, 2004)

sloth said:


> Yeah, but those games if I remember were dependent on good-great performances by Curry.


I'd say not really. Curry scored 12 and 15 points in both of our wins @ Detroit. And the Bulls totally pee'd away an OT game at home where Curry didn't even play (Deng was also injured).

BTW, I thought that 85-84 OT game last year was the best game of the season. The finish sucked, obviously, but the defense and physical play throughout was unreal.


----------



## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

sloth said:


> Yeah, but those games if I remember were dependent on good-great performances by Curry.


if i remember correctly, no they weren't..

he didn't score much in either win


----------



## Copper (Dec 9, 2004)

This isnt the same Detroit team people are used to watching. The D doesnt usually show up til the second half , and they are scoring in the 100s on most nights. Very wierd to see since Ive been a Piston fan for over 20 years.


----------



## nanokooshball (Jan 22, 2005)

The ROY said:


> if i remember correctly, no they weren't..
> 
> he didn't score much in either win


actually i remember that they were.... the 2 games that we lost to the pistons we didnt have curry

but i am predicting a W

Pistons 93
BULLS 98

deng w/ 20 and 5, nocioni w/ 12 and 6, sweetney 16 and 9, Tyson 8 and 15
Gordon 24


----------



## ndistops (Oct 31, 2005)

Someone please tell me why this game isn't worthy of being nationally televised by WGN Superstation?


----------



## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

ndistops said:


> Someone please tell me why this game isn't worthy of being nationally televised by WGN Superstation?


 cuz it's on NBATV nationally


----------



## Bulls96 (Jun 25, 2003)

Today we need a strong commentator to lead us to the victory. In the past we were extremely successful with the following members:

DaBullz, TBF and Spongyfungy.

And today’s victory is solely on their hands. Games on TV could be very painful and violent :biggrin: so I personally don’t mind, if our commentator will mislead us with the final result on a close game. 

IMO, without a good < 6-10-11” 260-270 lb player, we are not even a playoff team, and some fans can’t “ handle a truth “ 

Go Bulls. :cheers:


----------



## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

Wow. Just sat down to watch and the Bulls are already up by 38.

This should be good.


----------



## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

*Re: Official Game Thread: Pistons @ Chicago 7:30pm WGN /NBATVHighDef*

our first division matchup. 

red and wayne on the nba tv call! :rbanana:

hey red! long time no.


----------



## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

I guess this describes the game.

Believe it or not, the Pistons aren't home. Please leave a message at the beep. They must be out, or They'd pick up the phone. Where could they be? Believe it or not, they are not home.


----------



## Nocioni (May 23, 2005)

*Re: Official Game Thread: Pistons @ Chicago 7:30pm WGN /NBATVHighDef*

Nocioni threee


----------



## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

*Re: Official Game Thread: Pistons @ Chicago 7:30pm WGN /NBATVHighDef*

It didn't hit the rim!!! Tech on Sanders, but Du misses a free throw and a 3!


----------



## SecretAgentGuy (Jul 15, 2003)

*Re: Official Game Thread: Pistons @ Chicago 7:30pm WGN /NBATVHighDef*

Sweets looking good.


----------



## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

Looking good on both ends of the court.

23-11 Bulls


----------



## ACT_THE_FOOL (Nov 2, 2005)

i like Flash Gordons and dengs one two plays. the seem to bounce of each other well. great chemistry. reminds me of the days of Jordan and Pippen. 

by the way have we got a nickname for Deng.


----------



## Copper (Dec 9, 2004)

That is by far the worst Detroit has looked in a quarter all season.


----------



## Wynn (Jun 3, 2002)

Copper said:


> That is by far the worst Detroit has looked in a quarter all season.


They must be worn out from having to guard Jamal all night last night...


----------



## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

Deng 

He just looks awesome.


----------



## lister333 (May 6, 2003)

just have to hold on now....nice start so far


----------



## jbulls (Aug 31, 2005)

*Re: Official Game Thread: Pistons @ Chicago 7:30pm WGN /NBATVHighDef*

Nice start. But you just know this is going to be around a 10 point game by the half and and a nail biter in the 4th. The game of musical chairs on the Bulls bench continues as Skiles gets in 9 guys in the 1st.


----------



## Wynn (Jun 3, 2002)

O'fella and Songaila making worthwhile contributions! Bodes well for the game if this keeps up...


----------



## rwj333 (Aug 10, 2002)

this is OT, but wow, milwaukee has outscored orlando 20 to 0 in the second quarter so far.


----------



## lister333 (May 6, 2003)

luol hot!!!


----------



## lister333 (May 6, 2003)

Piston ´s feed sucks


----------



## lister333 (May 6, 2003)

the piston´s anouncer just screams a lot..man that´s really anoying...


----------



## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

Kirk struggling once again offensively :sigh:. Last year's trend still hasn't changed I see.


----------



## jbulls (Aug 31, 2005)

*Re: Official Game Thread: Pistons @ Chicago 7:30pm WGN /NBATVHighDef*

Is there another good team in the league that can squander a 15 point lead as fast as we can?

It's a nightly occurance at this point.


----------



## LuolDeng (Feb 22, 2004)

*Re: Official Game Thread: Pistons @ Chicago 7:30pm WGN /NBATVHighDef*

We have no consistancy at all


----------



## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

Is TC stupid? 

Almost every shot Rasheed has taken in this game has been WIDE OPEN.


----------



## MLKG (Aug 25, 2003)

*Re: Official Game Thread: Pistons @ Chicago 7:30pm WGN /NBATVHighDef*

Collapsing the entire defense on penetrators and post players was working in the 1st quarter, but the Pistons have calmed down and the Bulls are playing right into their hands.

If they want any chance to stay in this game they are going to start having to play honest man to man defense.


----------



## darlets (Jul 31, 2002)

*Re: Official Game Thread: Pistons @ Chicago 7:30pm WGN /NBATVHighDef*



jbulls said:


> Is there another good team in the league that can squander a 15 point lead as fast as we can?
> 
> It's a nightly occurance at this point.


I hear ya, but I think it's a step in the right direction.
We used to have to fight back from 10 down.
Now we have a lead and it gets eroded and we have to fight to win.
Hopefully soon, we'll have the lead and fight to keep it there.

I think it's a good sign we can get 15 points up.


----------



## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

Tyson got upset because he fumbled an unexpected pass from Sweetney, spent too much time complaining to the refs, and then came down and lost his man (Rasheed), who hit a wide open 3 with Tyson pretty much all the way across the court.

The game is mental, at least for him.

After the TV timeout, he's on the bench replaced by Noc.


----------



## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

Noce might wanna think abt passing every now and then. He's looking for his shot pretty much every time he touches it.

It's getting ugly.

Down 15


----------



## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

What's the point of bringing Ben and Deng in early if u're not gonna run any plays for them?


----------



## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

good freaking grief. 

Rasheed's eating Noc's dinner and having his wife for dessert.



Bulls commentators note they need to get Tyson back in there with Rasheed taking advantage of Noc.


----------



## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

For ****'s sake Tyson, use your left hand!!!


----------



## jimmy (Aug 20, 2002)

Why doesn't Pargo play anymore?

Basden has replaced him in the rotation, and we all know Basden is no Jannero Pargo.


----------



## ndistops (Oct 31, 2005)

In a sad piece of irony, we're finally shooting more FT's than our opponent. We've attempted 15 and the Pistons have attempted 7.

Prince and Sheed are absolutely killing us.


----------



## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

Gordon's playmaking skills aren't starting quality NBA yet, but they're a quantum leap above where they were last year. A couple more years to grow into the league and he'll be capable of playing the point the way a guy like Billups or Francis or Baron does.


I hate to keep focusing on Tyson, but in my mind this is a litmus test game for him - at least where he's at as a player now. Coming off a strong game last night and playing against a very good player he has all the tools to match up against in Rasheed. And it really pisses me off, because he's playing very frustrated and ineffective.


----------



## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

Detroit's giving us a golden opportunity to cut into this big lead......and we're doing nothing.

I just hate how soft we take it to the rim.


----------



## jimmy (Aug 20, 2002)

They are DESTROYING us. 


Pretty sad.


----------



## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

Oh well, 4th game in 5 nights. Should've expected this against a team like Detroit.


----------



## RoRo (Aug 21, 2002)

SPMJ said:


> Detroit's giving us a golden opportunity to cut into this big lead......and we're doing nothing.
> 
> I just hate how soft we take it to the rim.


noc, meet antonio mcdyess. that block had to hurt the ball.


----------



## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

SPMJ said:


> Oh well, 4th game in 5 nights. Should've expected this against a team like Detroit.


No excuses!

Detroit played last night too, and they're on the road.


----------



## jimmy (Aug 20, 2002)

SPMJ said:


> Oh well, 4th game in 5 nights. Should've expected this against a team like Detroit.



Yeah, but losing to the Knicks is unacceptable and getting blown out by a team that also played last night and a team that we were beating by double digits in the first half is also unacceptable


----------



## TripleDouble (Jul 26, 2002)

Mikedc said:


> No excuses!
> 
> Detroit played last night too, and they're on the road.


I've got an excuse. The Bulls are not good. In fact, the are madeningly mediocre. Why can't one of the Bulls players play well for more than one game in a row?


----------



## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

Yikes.

I know it's a shorter flight to Chicago from Boston than it is Detroit, but in a game where you'd figure us to have a pretty big built-in advantage, we got flat-out drilled.

Detroit's a great team and has a good shot to go to the Finals, so the result in and of itself isn't all that upsetting. But it confirms my belief that Pax should make a blockbuster swing for the fences in an in-season trade this year. We're a long way away from meaningfully running with the great teams in the league, and the "internal organic growth" doesn't seem like it's progressing all that quickly.


----------



## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

ScottMay said:


> Yikes.
> 
> I know it's a shorter flight to Chicago from Boston than it is Detroit, but in a game where you'd figure us to have a pretty big built-in advantage, we got flat-out drilled.
> 
> Detroit's a great team and has a good shot to go to the Finals, so the result in and of itself isn't all that upsetting. But it confirms my belief that Pax should make a blockbuster swing for the fences in an in-season trade this year. We're a long way away from meaningfully running with the great teams in the league, and the "internal organic growth" doesn't seem like it's progressing all that quickly.


I think Jalen Rose is available! :clown:


----------



## RagingBulls316 (Feb 15, 2004)

Did anybody notice Ben has changed his pre-free throw style. He used to do that practice shot with his shooting arm before he shot but has stopped.

I noticed in the New Jersey game Vince Carter was intimidating Gordon's practice free throw...and coincidently that's where his free throw troubles started.

Not that it would effect his shot, but it seems silly to change something that's been working for you.


----------



## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

I didn't see a lot of the first half -- did Skiles have "Sweets" guarding Rasheed Wallace then, too?

At least it's giving me something to laugh at down the stretch.


----------



## Sham (Dec 2, 2002)

Whilst I disappointed that the Bulls did not only lose, but got mullered, I do not want any personel changes on the back of this. It happens.


----------



## BullsAttitude (Jun 11, 2002)

Yes, Detroit is a better team than us but why does Flip Saunders still have his starters in there with 2 minutes to go and they are up by double digits? Why, cause his bench is not that deep. 

That's why I think if they make it to the Finals, they will be outmatched against San Antonio. San Antonio got better on their bench when Detroit did not.

I don't want to do a monster trade for a star. It took Detroit a couple of seasons together with this group to make their run. So, I want to see where we are after this year before we make any drastic changes with are main players.


----------



## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

12 point game and we missed 10 FTs tonight.


----------



## BullsAttitude (Jun 11, 2002)

The night we need them is the night we miss them!


----------



## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

ShamBulls said:


> Whilst I disappointed that the Bulls did not only lose, but got mullered, I do not want any personel changes on the back of this. It happens.


I have two. 

Deng has to play more minutes.

Skiles has to use "Sweets" sparingly. I know that there aren't a lot of good matchups for any of our power guys vs. a team like Detroit, but MikeDC made a comment the other day that despite his occasionally solid numbers, it seems tough sometimes for "Sweets" to have a net positive effect on our chances for winning. Start him, get what you can out of him, and then don't overwork him.


----------



## Sham (Dec 2, 2002)

By personel changes, I was referring to roster moves. I agree Deng must play more, but I'm not sure of who it's at the expense of. Tyson's currently the weakest of the 5 centers, but we haven't another option there. More Nocioni at power forward instead of Songaila could be good, but I don't feel particularly enthused with the idea of 20 minutes of small ball a night.


----------



## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

BullsAttitude said:


> I don't want to do a monster trade for a star. It took Detroit a couple of seasons together with this group to make their run. So, I want to see where we are after this year before we make any drastic changes with are main players.


So you think that Hinrich/Gordon/Duhon will be as good or better than Chauncey Billups and Rip Hamilton?

And that Luol Deng/Andres Nocioni will be as good or better than Tayshaun Prince? (in my book, Deng's already better than Prince, but our coach doesn't think he's good enough to start)

And that Tyson Chandler will be as good or better than Ben Wallace?

And that Mike Sweetney will be as good or better than Rasheed Wallace?

I don't know -- keeping the current core and adding some not-so-great free agents to the mix seems to be asking for an awful lot of things to fall in our favor. I think a big deal that keeps selected parts of our nucleus but yields us a superstar is a better way to go (and probably would allow us to reload quicker if it doesn't work out).


----------



## jbulls (Aug 31, 2005)

*Re: Official Game Thread: Pistons @ Chicago 7:30pm WGN /NBATVHighDef*



ScottMay said:


> I have two.
> 
> Deng has to play more minutes.
> 
> Skiles has to use "Sweets" sparingly. I know that there aren't a lot of good matchups for any of our power guys vs. a team like Detroit, but MikeDC made a comment the other day that despite his occasionally solid numbers, it seems tough sometimes for "Sweets" to have a net positive effect on our chances for winning. Start him, get what you can out of him, and then don't overwork him.


I don't disagree with this.

But I'm not sure that now is the right time for the Bulls to make a deal of any consequence though. Our core group of players is so young that it's tough to know exactly what we've got in each of them. Down the road there's going to need to be some talent consolidation but I don't think we know enough yet to be wheeling and dealing.

There is a bright side to this. We've played 15 games, 9 on the road, and we're 8-7. Things could be worse. The ability to piss away 15 point leads in 5 minutes on a nightly basis is disturbing, but the fact that we're jumping out to those leads is encouraging.

I think we need to see more of Ben and Deng, particularly Deng. I fear that Skiles' rotations are hampering our ability to maintain leads, it's fine to play mad scientist when the season is starting and you're figuring things out but sooner or later he needs to streamline his rotations and let groups of guys develop better chemistry.

Anyone else think Basden looks like a pretty okay NBA role player? I think he looks pretty good whenever gets in. Last night he was pretty effective against the Celts. Looks like he's passed Pargo up in the fight for minutes - which I think is a good thing.

This was a maddening loss but whatever, it happens. If it happens on a regular basis for the next month I'll get concerned.


----------



## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

ShamBulls said:


> By personel changes, I was referring to roster moves. I agree Deng must play more, but I'm not sure of who it's at the expense of. Tyson's currently the weakest of the 5 centers, but we haven't another option there. More Nocioni at power forward instead of Songaila could be good, but I don't feel particularly enthused with the idea of 20 minutes of small ball a night.


So you think that keeping the core, adding a guy like Al Harrington or Joel Pryzbilla, and late lottery/mid first round draft picks of unknown quality sets up nicely to do battle with the Cavs, Pacers, Pistons, and Bucks for the next five years?

I don't see it. What I do see is that we have a ton of tradeable assets -- probably more than any other team in the league -- and that we should take full advantage of it.


----------



## jbulls (Aug 31, 2005)

*Re: Official Game Thread: Pistons @ Chicago 7:30pm WGN /NBATVHighDef*



ScottMay said:


> So you think that keeping the core, adding a guy like Al Harrington or Joel Pryzbilla, and late lottery/mid first round draft picks of unknown quality sets up nicely to do battle with the Cavs, Pacers, Pistons, and Bucks for the next five years?
> 
> I don't see it. What I do see is that we have a ton of tradeable assets -- probably more than any other team in the league -- and that we should take full advantage of it.


We need to take advantage of it. The salary structure of the NBA demands it, we can't sign all of these guys to long term deals. Hinrich, Gordon and Deng are all going to command big money. And Noc and Sweetney may be MLE guys if they keep up what they're doing. We just can't keep them all. But I think it's too early to do much, we just don't have a good enough handle on how these guys are actually going to turn out yet...

I also don't think now is a particularly bargain friendly time of year in the NBA trade market.


----------



## TripleDouble (Jul 26, 2002)

ScottMay said:


> So you think that keeping the core, adding a guy like Al Harrington or Joel Pryzbilla, and late lottery/mid first round draft picks of unknown quality sets up nicely to do battle with the Cavs, Pacers, Pistons, and Bucks for the next five years?
> 
> I don't see it. What I do see is that we have a ton of tradeable assets -- probably more than any other team in the league -- and that we should take full advantage of it.


The problem is that teams with mediocre depth and a "mediocre star" don't go far. The Bulls best advantage right now is depth -- and most importantly, the chance that with age, the young players will get better (and more consistant). The Bulls really need Gordon or Deng to develop into a game in game out 20 ppg scorer -- a Rip Hamilton caliber player to offensively lead a squad that will ideally combine the defense of the Pistons with the quality depth of the 1999 Portland team.


----------



## BullsAttitude (Jun 11, 2002)

ScottMay said:


> So you think that Hinrich/Gordon/Duhon will be as good or better than Chauncey Billups and Rip Hamilton?
> 
> And that Luol Deng/Andres Nocioni will be as good or better than Tayshaun Prince? (in my book, Deng's already better than Prince, but our coach doesn't think he's good enough to start)
> 
> ...


Hinrich is already better at this stage than Billups was at his 3rd year in the league, so yes it is possible for Kirk to be better. I also believe that Gordon can be just as good as Rip.

Yes, I agree Deng is already better than Prince. His time as a starter will come.

Remember, it took quite a few seasons before Ben Wallace became the player he was, Orlando gave him up for pretty much nothing. So, when and if Tyson becomes consistent, yes he can be as good.

No, Sweetney will not be as good as Rasheed, not going to happen. 

I agree with Paxson's approach though, be patient with the core we have and see how we progress. Hey, as long as we don't trade Deng ( who has the most potential and everybody wants to throw him in deals for some reason? ), Hinrich, Gordon, Nocioni, and Chandler and get a decent star in return, I'm for it. Other wise, let this team continue to grow. Patience is something most people don't have these days. Jerry Krause didn't and look what happended there.

Also, if it's not for other teams shooting 10 more free throws than us, we are at 11-4 instead of 8-7. The New Jersey game, the Portland game, and the New York game ( which was outrageous! ) was games we outplayed the other team on the floor but got beat at the line.


----------



## nanokooshball (Jan 22, 2005)

RagingBulls316 said:


> Did anybody notice Ben has changed his pre-free throw style. He used to do that practice shot with his shooting arm before he shot but has stopped.
> 
> I noticed in the New Jersey game Vince Carter was intimidating Gordon's practice free throw...and coincidently that's where his free throw troubles started.
> 
> Not that it would effect his shot, but it seems silly to change something that's been working for you.


great observation... I didn't realize that gordon stopped doing until you just said so... I really think that he should go back to it.... is there anyone that can reach him? or write something to point this out?


----------



## jbulls (Aug 31, 2005)

*Re: Official Game Thread: Pistons @ Chicago 7:30pm WGN /NBATVHighDef*

I think Deng is showing that unless it's in a trade that's nets us a bona-fide star that he should basically be untouchable. He's a very good defender, and is turning into a very good offensive player too.

There's a lot of lusting after Paul Pierce on this board, and I can see why Pierce is a serious talent, but I'm not sure that's going to get us over the hump. Remember, the Pistons added Wallace to their nucleus for peanuts, we'd have to break ours up to get Pierce. Right now the Celtics aren't winning, and it's not like Pierce is surrounded by a bunch of garbage. Ricky Davis is having a great year, Delonte West looks like a pretty good NBA point, Raef LaFrentz is still pretty good, they have size down low with Jefferson/Blount/Perkins. I like Pierce but I'm not convinced he's the guy to launch us into legitimate contender status being that he's never actually been on a legitimate contender.


----------



## Sham (Dec 2, 2002)

*Re: Official Game Thread: Pistons @ Chicago 7:30pm WGN /NBATVHighDef*



> I like Pierce but I'm not convinced he's the guy to launch us into legitimate contender status being that he's never actually been on a legitimate contender.




He led the Celtics to within one game of the NBA Finals once. That's good enough for me.


----------



## Babble-On (Sep 28, 2005)

ScottMay said:


> So you think that Hinrich/Gordon/Duhon will be as good or better than Chauncey Billups and Rip Hamilton?
> 
> And that Luol Deng/Andres Nocioni will be as good or better than Tayshaun Prince? (in my book, Deng's already better than Prince, but our coach doesn't think he's good enough to start)
> 
> ...


I don't see it as necessarily so far-fetched that a Hinrich/Duhon combo ends up as good or better than Billups/Arroyo. Hinrich last year was already better than Billups was as late as his sixth year in the league. I don't think he'll be quite as explosive a scorer as Chauncey is, but I do think he can end up as a better overall player. Gordon, as good/better than Hamilton, Idunno. He was a better player as a rookie than Hamilton was as a rookie, but Rip has really developed into quite a player. I think its possible. I also think that Deng is already at least close to being better than Prince, and Nocioni is infinitely better than the nothing that has played behind Prince the last couple years. Chandler, better than Wallace? Maybe. I think he's capable of becoming comparable. I don't think Sweetney becomes better than R. Wallace, so we'll have to see what we can swing to get that other guy.


----------



## BullsAttitude (Jun 11, 2002)

Guys, what superstar are we going to get that is going to put us in the upper echleon of the NBA. Here is the champions from the past 15 years and the superstars on the team.

90- Detroit (Thomas)
91- Chicago (Jordan, Pippen)
92- Chicago 
93- Chicago 
94- Houston (Olajuwon)
95- Houston (Olajuwon, Drexler)
96- Chicago (Jordan, Pippen)
97- Chicago
98- Chicago
99- SA (Duncan, Robinson)
00- LA (O'neal, Bryant)
01- LA
02- LA
03- SA (Duncan, Robinson)
04- Detroit (NO TRUE SUPERSTAR!)
05- SA (Duncan)

All these teams besides Detroit in 04 (which I think the Bulls can become) got their superstars through the Draft or Free Agency. Houston picked up Drexler in 94 when he was getting towards the end of his career.

So, I don't think any trade is going to put us up there like everybody thinks it's going to do. I can go further back into the 80's and I don't see any team that made a trade for a Superstar and won the title. 

Patience, Patience, and Patience. Deng in time, can become that superstar we are looking for, he is only 20 years old and is getting better each year he plays.


----------



## MLKG (Aug 25, 2003)

BullsAttitude said:


> Hinrich is already better at this stage than Billups was at his 3rd year in the league, so yes it is possible for Kirk to be better. I also believe that Gordon can be just as good as Rip.
> 
> Yes, I agree Deng is already better than Prince. His time as a starter will come.


If Hinrich can get his jumpshot in shape he could be as good as Billups. He already has the defense and leadership.

I think a lot of times people forget that Rip Hamilton is 6'7". Ben Gordon has a pretty big hill to climb to get to his level.

I would say Luol Deng is certainly not a better player than Tayshaun Prince at this point. He might be his equal as a scorer, but his game isn't nearly as rounded. Luol Deng seems to lean more towards the Antawn Jamison mold where Prince is in the Scottie Pippen mold. They might put up similar numbers, but nobody mistakes who has the bigger impact.


----------



## BullsAttitude (Jun 11, 2002)

*Re: Official Game Thread: Pistons @ Chicago 7:30pm WGN /NBATVHighDef*



ShamBulls said:


> He led the Celtics to within one game of the NBA Finals once. That's good enough for me.


It was actually 2 games, they lost 4 game to 2 to New Jersey in 02. When the East was really, really weak. I believe Boston won as many games as the Bulls did last year!

Don't get me wrong, he's a great player but somebody I don't see that we need to trade for that's going to make us a contender.


----------



## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

I didn't catch the entire game, I'll download it later but listening to Skiles postgame was interesting.

- He said midway through the 2nd quarter to the 3rd quarter, the Bulls gave up on defense. They went too soft on defense, allowing Prince to catch the ball at will. They made some early three's but we were playing with them until that point. We stopped moving the ball as well.

-FT's are a concern. Now that they are getting to the line, they have to start making them.

- He won't take the 4 games in 5 days excuse.

Now for the interesting comment : 
*- Skiles was asked by I think Mike Mcgraw if he would have done anything about one of the Pistons laughing at them. He said "I would have done something. I would have fought back"*

Can someone fill me in on this incident? Did some Pistons players laugh? Was it towards Ben Gordon?


----------



## Babble-On (Sep 28, 2005)

spongyfungy said:


> I didn't catch the entire game, I'll download it later but listening to Skiles postgame was interesting.
> 
> - He said midway through the 2nd quarter to the 3rd quarter, the Bulls gave up on defense. They went too soft on defense, allowing Prince to catch the ball at will. They made some early three's but we were playing with them until that point. We stopped moving the ball as well.
> 
> ...



Rasheed Wallace had the giggles. I didn't really notice anybody else really laughing it up.


----------



## bullsville (Jan 23, 2005)

*Re: Official Game Thread: Pistons @ Chicago 7:30pm WGN /NBATVHighDef*

LOL.

Now the Bulls are nowhere near the top of the league, based on one game vs the Pistons?

So I guess 8 days ago the Bulls were an elite team since we won one game in San Antonio?

It's amazing how far this team has fallen in 8 days...


----------



## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

*Re: Official Game Thread: Pistons @ Chicago 7:30pm WGN /NBATVHighDef*

I've never seen a team turn up their intensity collectively like these Pistons. couple that with the fact that we seem to turn off general basketball acumen a quarter or so a game and we get today. The Pistons seem to always give away a game then they just hit you on the head. (except maybe that Dallas blowout)

This Bulls team is a team that is trying to find itself. I don't have a clear answer as to how we can develop an identity but I firmly believe all it'll take is time to rip through a long win streak. What am I basing this on? Chemistry takes time to happen with new FA's and acquistions. Detroit already knows what team they are. We don't.


----------



## bullsville (Jan 23, 2005)

*Re: Official Game Thread: Pistons @ Chicago 7:30pm WGN /NBATVHighDef*

Tonight's positives:

- The Bulls held Rip to 10 points on 4-13 shooting.

- Ben Wallace only had 2 pts, 5 reb and 3 TO in 25 minutes.

- Eddie Basden looked pretty good on defense, with a steal, a block, and 2 defensive rebounds in 9 minutes.

- The Bulls forced the Pistons, who led the league in fewest TOs coming into tonight, into 16 TO.

- The Bulls held the Pistons under their 99.4 pts/game season average.


----------



## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

*Re: Official Game Thread: Pistons @ Chicago 7:30pm WGN /NBATVHighDef*

The Bulls were toyed with tonight. It’s a wakeup call. Its where we are at.

This was a great team verses a good team. It made me think what the rest of the league felt like when the great 72 win Bulls team would win game after game after game during the regular season, turning it on and executing in the spurts when they needed to. The Bulls were probably playing many "good" teams during this run... but since the Bulls were great, the "good" teams were insignificant. Who cared to the great Bulls would dispatch in the 1st round of the playoffs. It was insignificant. On to the real teams.

Deng looked nice out there. He's our best chance @ having a true difference making star at this point. He's probably already our best player... and by the end of the year and going forward, it might not even be close, unless Paxson brings in some all-star level talent.


----------



## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

*Re: Official Game Thread: Pistons @ Chicago 7:30pm WGN /NBATVHighDef*



kukoc4ever said:


> The Bulls were toyed with tonight. It’s a wakeup call. Its where we are at.



I'm curious why you think this game shows where we are and none of the other games did?

The coach said the team gave up on defense. If anything, thats an aberration for this team, so I'd have to argue that this game was just an exception...and not the rule.


----------



## darlets (Jul 31, 2002)

BullsAttitude said:


> Guys, what superstar are we going to get that is going to put us in the upper echleon of the NBA. Here is the champions from the past 15 years and the superstars on the team.
> 
> 90- Detroit (Thomas)
> 91- Chicago (Jordan, Pippen)
> ...


Indeed.

It's all well and good to say trade for a star, but that's not a common event and even less common is trading a franchise player
When's the last time a traded star took his team to the finals?
Barkley???


I think Paxson is building his nest so it's nice and attractive for people to sign with us when they a big star becomes a free agents.

We don't have to spend all our cap space next year, we can just keep it. We have enough talent on the team currently to make the playoff and we will improve abit naturally in the next two years.

Patience indeed

There's some star young players that are playing on bad teams. We might like very nice to them, when they are off their rookie contract.


----------



## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

*Re: Official Game Thread: Pistons @ Chicago 7:30pm WGN /NBATVHighDef*



GB said:


> I'm curious why you think this game shows where we are and none of the other games did?
> 
> The coach said the team gave up on defense. If anything, thats an aberration for this team, so I'd have to argue that this game was just an exception...and not the rule.


It was not just our defense. 

It was about *their* defense and *their offense. Their great execution.

There was one great defensive team on the court tonight. It was amazing to see them turn it on like it was a switch and just shut us down.

It can be tough to give 110% maximum effort in every game. We saw what happened tonight when the Bulls could not do it. 

Or maybe the Pistons are just a lot better team than we are.


----------



## Sham (Dec 2, 2002)

*Re: Official Game Thread: Pistons @ Chicago 7:30pm WGN /NBATVHighDef*



BullsAttitude said:


> It was actually 2 games, they lost 4 game to 2 to New Jersey in 02. When the East was really, really weak. I believe Boston won as many games as the Bulls did last year!
> 
> Don't get me wrong, he's a great player but somebody I don't see that we need to trade for that's going to make us a contender.





Ta, I was too lazy to look it up.


Still, the East was really really weak - but so were the Celtics. Paul and Antoine got 47 wins out of that ramshackle lot. That's impressive.


----------



## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

darlets said:


> When's the last time a traded star took his team to the finals?
> Barkley???


Ben Wallace?

Shaq?


----------



## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

*Re: Official Game Thread: Pistons @ Chicago 7:30pm WGN /NBATVHighDef*



bullsville said:


> Tonight's positives:
> 
> - The Bulls held Rip to 10 points on 4-13 shooting.
> 
> ...


Detroit was outscoring their opponents by about 7 points per game. They outscored the bulls by 13. About double as good as they've been all season long.


----------



## Sham (Dec 2, 2002)

Shaq hasn't done it since he was traded. He's only been traded once.

You could argue Kobe, but I don't think that's really the point here,

Three fifths of the Pistons lineup was acquired via trade.


----------



## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

*Re: Official Game Thread: Pistons @ Chicago 7:30pm WGN /NBATVHighDef*



kukoc4ever said:


> It was not just our defense.
> 
> It was about *their* defense and *their offense. Their great execution.
> 
> There was one great defensive team on the court tonight. It was amazing to see them turn it on like it was a switch and just shut us down.


Now I am confused. You make it sound like it shows where the _Pistons_ are, better than most everyone else as we already knew. Or were we the only team to lose to them?



> It can be tough to give 110% maximum effort in every game. We saw what happened tonight when the Bulls could not do it.
> 
> Or maybe the Pistons are just a lot better team than we are.


Who argued that they were not? Link please. I don't believe the board consensus was that we were better than the Pistons. 

Gotta read it for myself.


----------



## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

ShamBulls said:


> Shaq hasn't done it since he was traded. He's only been traded once.
> 
> You could argue Kobe, but I don't think that's really the point here,
> 
> Three fifths of the Pistons lineup was acquired via trade.


Shaq is clearly a superstar player added to a team that went to the finals (and three-peated).

Tayshaun Prince is the only player in the Pistons lineup that they drafted. 4/5ths is more appropriate.

I do not understand why Ben Wallace isn't respected as one of the very best players in the game. We go ga-ga over how the Bulls play defense, and Wallace may be the very best player I've ever seen at the defensive end. He literally changes the game with his defense unlike any other player in the last 35 years.


----------



## Sham (Dec 2, 2002)

> Shaq is clearly a superstar player added to a team that went to the finals (and three-peated).
> 
> Tayshaun Prince is the only player in the Pistons lineup that they drafted. 4/5ths is more appropriate.




He said traded star. Shaq was not traded to L.A. and Billups was not traded to Detroit.


----------



## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

*Re: Official Game Thread: Pistons @ Chicago 7:30pm WGN /NBATVHighDef*



GB said:


> Now I am confused. You make it sound like it shows where the _Pistons_ are, better than most everyone else as we already knew. Or were we the only team to lose to them?
> 
> Who argued that they were not? Link please. I don't believe the board consensus was that we were better than the Pistons.
> 
> Gotta read it for myself.


We are a long way from hanging with the pistons, especially if we had to play a 7 game playoff series against them. Full motor or 90% motor.

If you agree with this, then we don't need to discuss it anymore.


----------



## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

*Re: Official Game Thread: Pistons @ Chicago 7:30pm WGN /NBATVHighDef*

...I'd only add that the long way is experience plus one or two players.


----------



## bullsville (Jan 23, 2005)

*Re: Official Game Thread: Pistons @ Chicago 7:30pm WGN /NBATVHighDef*



GB said:


> I'm curious why you think this game shows where we are and none of the other games did?
> 
> The coach said the team gave up on defense. If anything, thats an aberration for this team, so I'd have to argue that this game was just an exception...and not the rule.


Only this game shows where we are at. Which is not close to the Pistons.

8 days ago, however, where we were "at" was the top, having beaten the Spurs in San Antonio.

Unfortunately, we are no longer at that level. It's sad how far this team has fallen in 8 short days.

One thing I am sure of, tonight's loss had absolutely nothing to do with all the FTs and wide-open shots the Bulls missed.


----------



## bullsville (Jan 23, 2005)

*Re: Official Game Thread: Pistons @ Chicago 7:30pm WGN /NBATVHighDef*



DaBullz said:


> Detroit was outscoring their opponents by about 7 points per game. They outscored the bulls by 13. About double as good as they've been all season long.


That would be under the heading of "tonight's negatives". 

I only covered tonight's "positives", since the negatives have already been pointed out, in great detail, over and over and over.


----------



## bullsville (Jan 23, 2005)

*Re: Official Game Thread: Pistons @ Chicago 7:30pm WGN /NBATVHighDef*



GB said:


> ...I'd only add that the long way is experience plus one or two players.


Are you sure?

I was positive that Billups and Hamilton and R Wallace were All-Stars at 23? And I would have sworn that B Wallace was All-NBA at 22? And didn't I see Tayshaun in the All-Star Game on his 20th birthday?

And where are those one or two players supposed to come from? It's not as if the Pistons got Sheed for expiring contracts and first-round picks, and they sure as hell didn't sign Billups as a Free Agent, and I know they didn't trade for Big Ben or Hamilton.


----------



## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

*Re: Official Game Thread: Pistons @ Chicago 7:30pm WGN /NBATVHighDef*

(wrong thread)


----------



## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

*Re: Official Game Thread: Pistons @ Chicago 7:30pm WGN /NBATVHighDef*



bullsville said:


> Are you sure?


Yes. More experience/maturity for Deng and Gordon and one more impact player and we can compete with the best the NBA has to offer.


----------



## RoRo (Aug 21, 2002)

*Re: Official Game Thread: Pistons @ Chicago 7:30pm WGN /NBATVHighDef*

the bulls were outclassed tonight. both physically and mentally. rasheed was downright abusive, no one could guard him. noc was on a tear before this game but sheed was on another level this night, simple as that. after rasheed scored on noc several times (and laughed about it), noc got out of character and jacked up some quick shots. noc played right into their hands. mind games: detroit 1, bulls 0

and as much of a freak deng is, prince was an even bigger one. on one play deng had a fast break layup - prince closed in and blocked it. it looked like basden could jump up and tip the rebound in but as he did that billups flew in and blocked that shot. it was a reminder that the pistons had the better athletes and it did make an impression that they were just toying with us.

i'd like to believe the bulls 4 games in 5 nights made them more tired than the pistons coming off a back-to-back themselves but in all honesty it didn't look like detroit played seriously the first half. if anything they just wanted to take our best shot. after they tied it at 1/2 time they probably felt like they had everything under control.


----------



## Copper (Dec 9, 2004)

The Pistons played a little worse than they usually do in the first half, they have been notorious for letting teams come out and get leads in the first half. Then in the second they kinda flip the preverbial switch and play " the right way" The worst thing an opposing team can do is piss off Sheed, he usually floats through games and simply takes what is given to him. Someone musta said something that got him fired up cause he was just embarrassing Noc out there and laughing the whole time. Big Ben was limited by his bad ankles tonight and I thought Chandler was gonna go off. The Bulls defenitely have some athletes, but they just looked lost when the Pistons tightened the clamps. Experience and time together will cure that. Just a few years back the Piston starting 5 was considered a cast of rejects with no superstar, now everyone is calling them the best in basketball. Time to grow together will do wonders.


----------



## anorexorcist (Aug 3, 2005)

*Re: Official Game Thread: Pistons @ Chicago 7:30pm WGN /NBATVHighDef*

My reaction after seeing the Bulls up 15 and then coming back an hour later and seeing them DOWN 15










-Z-


----------



## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

*Re: Official Game Thread: Pistons @ Chicago 7:30pm WGN /NBATVHighDef*



RoRo said:


> the bulls were outclassed tonight. both physically and mentally. rasheed was downright abusive, no one could guard him. noc was on a tear before this game but sheed was on another level this night, simple as that. after rasheed scored on noc several times (and laughed about it), noc got out of character and jacked up some quick shots. noc played right into their hands. mind games: detroit 1, bulls 0
> 
> and as much of a freak deng is, prince was an even bigger one. on one play deng had a fast break layup - prince closed in and blocked it. it looked like basden could jump up and tip the rebound in but as he did that billups flew in and blocked that shot. it was a reminder that the pistons had the better athletes and it did make an impression that they were just toying with us.
> 
> i'd like to believe the bulls 4 games in 5 nights made them more tired than the pistons coming off a back-to-back themselves but in all honesty it didn't look like detroit played seriously the first half. if anything they just wanted to take our best shot. after they tied it at 1/2 time they probably felt like they had everything under control.


Spot on.


----------



## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: Official Game Thread: Pistons @ Chicago 7:30pm WGN /NBATVHighDef*



jbulls said:


> I think Deng is showing that unless it's in a trade that's nets us a bona-fide star that he should basically be untouchable. He's a very good defender, and is turning into a very good offensive player too.
> 
> There's a lot of lusting after Paul Pierce on this board, and I can see why Pierce is a serious talent, but I'm not sure that's going to get us over the hump. Remember, the Pistons added Wallace to their nucleus for peanuts, we'd have to break ours up to get Pierce. Right now the Celtics aren't winning, and it's not like Pierce is surrounded by a bunch of garbage. Ricky Davis is having a great year, Delonte West looks like a pretty good NBA point, Raef LaFrentz is still pretty good, they have size down low with Jefferson/Blount/Perkins. I like Pierce but I'm not convinced he's the guy to launch us into legitimate contender status being that he's never actually been on a legitimate contender.


But can Deng and Pierce play next to each other? I agree that Pierce isn't a guy who'll make us contenders by himself, but if we get ahold of him without giving up too much, the combination of him and our current guys could be pretty good. 

The other thing about Deng is that two of our best FA options seem to be Al Harrington and Peja, who are SFs. If Deng gets us Bosh still on his rookie deal, then adding Harrington would make a good Deng replacement.


----------



## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

*Re: Official Game Thread: Pistons @ Chicago 7:30pm WGN /NBATVHighDef*



Mikedc said:


> But can Deng and Pierce play next to each other? I agree that Pierce isn't a guy who'll make us contenders by himself, but if we get ahold of him without giving up too much, the combination of him and our current guys could be pretty good.
> 
> The other thing about Deng is that two of our best FA options seem to be Al Harrington and Peja, who are SFs. If Deng gets us Bosh still on his rookie deal, then adding Harrington would make a good Deng replacement.


Pierce would be SG for us.


----------



## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

*Re: Official Game Thread: Pistons @ Chicago 7:30pm WGN /NBATVHighDef*

Another note... there were a lot of vocal Pistons fans @ the UC last night. 

I think the Bulls fans would have out-yelled em.... but there was not much to yell about.


----------



## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

*Re: Official Game Thread: Pistons @ Chicago 7:30pm WGN /NBATVHighDef*



kukoc4ever said:


> We are a long way from hanging with the pistons, especially if we had to play a 7 game playoff series against them. Full motor or 90% motor.
> 
> If you agree with this, then we don't need to discuss it anymore.


But we beat San Antonio on the road, too. And took them to overtime at our place.

If you ask me, all this shows is that we're good team who matches up well with some contenders, and matches up poorly with others. When the Bulls are on, they can beat anyone. When they're off, anyone can beat them. It's the mark of a good, but still inconsistent, team with room to grow. As I've said for months and months, we'll have plenty of ways to fill the team holes in the off-season. That is Paxson's next big test.


----------



## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

*Re: Official Game Thread: Pistons @ Chicago 7:30pm WGN /NBATVHighDef*



yodurk said:


> As I've said for months and months, we'll have plenty of ways to fill the team holes in the off-season. That is Paxson's next big test.


That will be year 4 BTW.


----------



## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

The Spurs games were great. It'd be more funny/dumb Bulls' luck, though (along the lines of the ****ty 2006 draft and free agent classes), if it turns out that we match up better against Western teams than we do Eastern ones. The latter are the teams that we need to fight for playoff positioning and then actually face in the playoffs. 

Unless there's an impending plan to kick the Bulls to the Western Conference, I'll always look at games vs. conference rivals as being much more important and meaningful than ones against teams from the West, whether they're good or bad. Detroit and Indiana and Cleveland and all the rest are the important measuring sticks, near term and far.


----------



## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

ScottMay said:


> The Spurs games were great. It'd be more funny/dumb Bulls' luck, though (along the lines of the ****ty 2006 draft and free agent classes), if it turns out that we match up better against Western teams than we do Eastern ones. The latter are the teams that we need to fight for playoff positioning and then actually face in the playoffs.
> 
> Unless there's an impending plan to kick the Bulls to the Western Conference, I'll always look at games vs. conference rivals as being much more important and meaningful than ones against teams from the West, whether they're good or bad. Detroit and Indiana and Cleveland and all the rest are the important measuring sticks, near term and far.


Absolutely true. Good post.


----------



## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

*Re: Official Game Thread: Pistons @ Chicago 7:30pm WGN /NBATVHighDef*



kukoc4ever said:


> That will be year 4 BTW.


Yes it will be the start of year four. If we make the playoffs, we have picks and money to add to the players we have. It's all good. Whether we make a trade or not.


----------



## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

*Re: Official Game Thread: Pistons @ Chicago 7:30pm WGN /NBATVHighDef*



> It’s a wakeup call. Its where we are at.


Charlotte beat the pacers soundly earlier in the season. Does that mean Indy is a not a good team?

We were beaten by the East champs. 

Last year we played Detroit tough. Didnt we beat them 2 or three times? Yet they played for the championship. (I am not saying we will play for the championship) just saying one game, does not make a season.


----------



## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

*Re: Official Game Thread: Pistons @ Chicago 7:30pm WGN /NBATVHighDef*



truebluefan said:


> It's all good. Whether we make a trade or not.


Depends on your definition of "good."

Stuck at average is not good, IMO.


----------



## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

*Re: Official Game Thread: Pistons @ Chicago 7:30pm WGN /NBATVHighDef*



truebluefan said:


> Charlotte beat the pacers soundly earlier in the season. Does that mean Indy is a not a good team?
> 
> We were beaten by the East champs.
> 
> Last year we played Detroit tough. Didnt we beat them 2 or three times? Yet they played for the championship. (I am not saying we will play for the championship) just saying one game, does not make a season.


In a way, you're both right.

The Bulls will beat some good teams this year (already have, actually), but we'll also lose to some bad teams. Overall, the net result appears to be above .500 and playoff bound. That's enough for me at this stage, knowing we're heading up and not down. And considering the many losing seasons we've endured, I'm not complaining being in the "mediocre" stage for a few years. I'll get worred once we're stuck in endless mediocrity or worse for season after season after season.


----------



## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

*Re: Official Game Thread: Pistons @ Chicago 7:30pm WGN /NBATVHighDef*



kukoc4ever said:


> Depends on your definition of "good."
> 
> Stuck at average is not good, IMO.


You are right. But is making the playoffs, average? Even after that loss to detroit, we are #6 in the east if the playoffs started today. 

I see things a little differently. If we did not have any picks next year and no money to spend, I would say we would be in danger of being 'stuck'


----------



## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

*Re: Official Game Thread: Pistons @ Chicago 7:30pm WGN /NBATVHighDef*



yodurk said:


> In a way, you're both right.
> 
> The Bulls will beat some good teams this year (already have, actually), but we'll also lose to some bad teams. Overall, the net result appears to be above .500 and playoff bound. That's enough for me at this stage, knowing we're heading up and not down. And considering the many losing seasons we've endured, I'm not complaining being in the "mediocre" stage for a few years. I'll get worred once we're stuck in endless mediocrity or worse for season after season after season.


that's pretty much the point I was getting at.


----------



## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

*Re: Official Game Thread: Pistons @ Chicago 7:30pm WGN /NBATVHighDef*



truebluefan said:


> I see things a little differently. If we did not have any picks next year and no money to spend, I would say we would be in danger of being 'stuck'


The pick is our best option. Even then... usually it takes a couple years for a rookie to become a real difference maker, unless we hit a home run, which I hope Paxson can do. No more undersized bench SGs please with the high lotto picks! Of course, Gordon still deserves some more time to develop his game.

I don't see any FAs out there to spend our money on that look very tempting and would want to leave their current team.


----------



## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

*Re: Official Game Thread: Pistons @ Chicago 7:30pm WGN /NBATVHighDef*



yodurk said:


> knowing we're heading up and not down.


Last season we had the 3rd best regular season record in the east and were knocked out of the playoffs in the first round.

You think we'll do better this year?


----------



## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

*Re: Official Game Thread: Pistons @ Chicago 7:30pm WGN /NBATVHighDef*



kukoc4ever said:


> Last season we had the 3rd best regular season record in the east and were knocked out of the playoffs in the first round.
> 
> You think we'll do better this year?


Haven't we discussed this point to death by now?

The conference has gotten better, while the team we have is pretty much equal to the team we fielded last year (no draft picks, no cap room for big signings), with the exception of some internal improvement. I can live with a small step back record-wise this year because I know we have the means to make a big leap up beyond this year. That's still moving up.


----------

