# Random players I'd want BC to target...



## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

...that may have some realistic merit.

-Leandro Barbosa
-Paul Millsap
-Josh Childress or Marvin Williams (one or the other, not both)
-Travis Outlaw or Rudy Fernandez
-Juan Carlos Navarro or Mike Miller
-Desagna Diop
-Saer Sene or John Petro
-Charlie Bell
-Andray Blatche
-Carl Landry
-Nene

Feel free to add other players or discuss how or why BC should look to target any of the aforementioned players. Just wanted to start some offseason talk.


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

Josh Howard may have become available if you seen the reports on the mavs the past few days he may of just played his way out of Dallas


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## RX (May 24, 2006)

-Leandro Barbosa - *Stupid Chucker, Terrible Defender*
-Paul Millsap - *Would be great*
-Josh Childress or Marvin Williams (one or the other, not both) - *Prefer Marvin over Josh but either would be great*
-Travis Outlaw or Rudy Fernandez - *NO Thanks*
-Juan Carlos Navarro or Mike Miller - *NO Thanks*
-Desagna Diop - *Depends on the price*
-Saer Sene or John Petro - *NO Thanks, both of these guys SUCK*
-Charlie Bell - *Would be an OK backup PG*
-Andray Blatche - *No way we're getting him*
-Carl Landry - *Could be interesting, but only for cheap*
-Nene - *Too injury prone and $$$*


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## Boob-No-More (Apr 24, 2006)

RX said:


> -Travis Outlaw or Rudy Fernandez - *NO Thanks*


He's not available, but I'm curious why you'd say *NO Thanks* to Rudy Fernandez? He'd be a HUGE upgrade at shooting guard for you. He's a great shooter, but not JUST a shooter. He's very athletic and drives the lane without fear. Last year he was voted the top young player in Europe and this year many consider him the best player in Europe period. He has won MVP of pretty much every tournament he's played in this year. If he was in this year's draft, he'd be a top 5 pick.

Like I said, you're not getting him, but why on earth wouldn't you want him?

BNM


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## RX (May 24, 2006)

Boob-No-More said:


> He's not available, but I'm curious why you'd say *NO Thanks* to Rudy Fernandez? He'd be a HUGE upgrade at shooting guard for you. He's a great shooter, but not JUST a shooter. He's very athletic and drives the lane without fear. Last year he was voted the top young player in Europe and this year many consider him the best player in Europe period. He has won MVP of pretty much every tournament he's played in this year. If he was in this year's draft, he'd be a top 5 pick.
> 
> Like I said, you're not getting him, but why on earth wouldn't you want him?
> 
> BNM


no thanks was more for travis outlaw

I have no opinion of rudy fernandez because i can't seem to remember him at all from any blazers game i've seen


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## Boob-No-More (Apr 24, 2006)

RX said:


> no thanks was more for travis outlaw
> 
> I have no opinion of rudy fernandez because i can't seem to remember him at all from any blazers game i've seen


Probably because he's never played in a Blazers game. He plays in Europe, but the Blazers hold his rights. Try a google on Rudy Fernandez youtube.

BNM


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## RX (May 24, 2006)

Boob-No-More said:


> Probably because he's never played in a Blazers game. He plays in Europe, but the Blazers hold his rights. Try a google on Rudy Fernandez youtube.
> 
> BNM


I think the sentiment of most Raptors fans is to improve via proven players...no more euros or projects. Our best players: Bosh, Jose, TJ (whichever one we keep) are in or entering their primes now...we can't afford to squander it (which i think we will) by trying to develop another youngster


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## chocolove (Apr 4, 2006)

If we could get Josh Howard, I'd do it in a second. As for other random players I want the raps to go for would be 
Ron Artest- a lil mental but he has that attitude which the raps so sorely lack.
Diop- Shot Blocker and Rebounder
David Lee- Not sure about his availability, but he can do for us what Kris Humphries does not only better, but he wont jack up a jumpshots all the time like Kris does.


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

chocolove said:


> David Lee- Not sure about his availability, but he can do for us what Kris Humphries does not only better, but he wont jack up a jumpshots all the time like Kris does.


:doh:, can't believe I forgot about Lee. Definitely a must-have for any team, not just the Raptors.


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

chocolove said:


> If we could get Josh Howard, I'd do it in a second.


His contract is pretty much the same as TJ , I don't like trade talk speculation but the option is there


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## RX (May 24, 2006)

Dallas has Kidd, Terry, Barea, and Lue...highly unlikely they will want TJ

Additionally, J-Ho is overrated, he choked in the playoffs shooting something like 10% from the field and not driving the basket at all. I think Moon could have the same impact as J-Ho if he was featured just as much. I mean there are alot of wing players who can put up good numbers if given the green light. It's how efficient they are at doing so that separates them.


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

RX said:


> -Leandro Barbosa - *Stupid Chucker, Terrible Defender*


He's a chucker, yes. Stupid chucker? No. This season he shot 46% (39% from 3) and the previous season he shot 48% (43% from 3). With those kind of percentages I don't mind that player to be a chucker. 

Defensively he's not 'terrible'. On his rookie season he was a highly touted defender, and with his speed and athleticism he should be adequate at the least as a defender. He's no Artest or Bowen, but I think it'd be unfair for any player to be compared to those two in defense.

With starter minutes (assuming he starts the 2 if acquired) he can be that 20 ppg scorer that BC is searching for on the wing.



> -Travis Outlaw or Rudy Fernandez - *NO Thanks*


BNM has brought up some good points in his little debate with seifer in that other thread in that Outlaw is young, athletic and has improved in each season up to date.

Rudy may be a project (I know how you don't want any more Euro projects), but he would still add some athleticism on the wings.

Both players are also cheap too.



> -Juan Carlos Navarro or Mike Miller - *NO Thanks*


Both players could be that second playmaker on the wings to replace Parker when it comes to that time. Navarro may not end up being that 20 ppg scorer but he is capable of playing either guard spots. A neat package to invest a future on.

Mike Miller, on ther other hand, would be that 20 ppg kind of guy who can create for others as well.



> -Saer Sene or Johan Petro - *NO Thanks, both of these guys SUCK*


Young centers under utilized by their current club that can be acquired for cheap is always welcome by me. Think Kris Humphries.



> -Nene - *Too injury prone and $$$*


With him in the lineup I'm picturing a Bargnani, Bosh and Nene froncourt. True he is injury prone and netting around the 10 mil range, but acquiring him allows the Raptors to have (a) insurance in case the Bargnani experiment doesn't work, (b) a banger down low to help Bosh and (c) building around a young frontcourt with either Bosh or Bargnani. However, having Nene on the team allows little chance of both Bosh and Bargnani being on the same team.

Two other names I thought of:

-Sergio Rodriguez
-Boris Diaw


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

Good point RX either way I expect Howard to get moved this offseason


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## eddymac (Jun 23, 2005)

All the Raptors need is a swing player so why not go after Cuttino Mobley or Cory Maggette. With a big man like Bosh you need someone on the perimeter that can compliment him. I think either one can be effective in that system esspecially Mobley who can shoot from the outside.


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

eddymac said:


> All the Raptors need is a swing player so why not go after Cuttino Mobley or Cory Maggette. With a big man like Bosh you need someone on the perimeter that can compliment him. I think either one can be effective in that system esspecially Mobley who can shoot from the outside.


Mobley? 33 year-old Cuttino Mobley. At this point in their careers he'd be no different than what we have in Anthony Parker. 

He'd be a good pickup if we were contenders looking to add depth, but the Raptors are far from that.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

I would add Ron Artest to that list. Desperate times calls for desperate measures and the Raptors D is exactly that.

Out of that list there are some players I agree and some I disagree, but generally speaking the Raptors have the following:

Need: 
#1. Perimeter scorer that can penetrate and get to the line
#2. Perimeter defender that is physical and hopefully can do #1 as well.
#3. Rebounder/Shotblocker that is over 6-9, any extra offensive skills is a bonus.
#4. A big body that can score inside off 2nd chance points.

Don't need more of:
#1. Jump shooters
#2. Big men who are jump shooters
#3. Players that are below average defenders


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## southeasy (Jun 11, 2003)

*Samuel Dalembert* (canadian; would bring our inside presence to a different level IMO)
*Sean Williams* (NJ will never let us rape them in a deal, amazing shotblocking presence)

*Renaldo Balkman* (pure hustle, rebounder, defender, toughness, no jumpshooter)
*David Lee* (see above)
*Corey Maggette* (top 10 FTA, slasher, toughness/defender)

out of the ones Trick listed i like:
*Milsapp* (heavy hitter, rebounder, energy big)
*Diop* (defensive presence at the rim, big man defender)
*Blatche* (IMO he's bargnani with better shotblocking & offensive handle)
*Landry* (see Milsapp)

players that would me an amazing, second-scorer/defender/rebounder/toughness addition:
*Josh Howard *(overrated or not, he's one of my favourite player, would easily fill that secondary scoring role, i don't think he would be just a jump shooter outside of Dallas)
*Ron Artest* (crazy Ron, toughest with the toughness, underrated scorer, & i believe his rap album is behind him)
*Gerald Wallace* (wanted him in the off-season, unlikely now, but he's everything we need in a player - injury concerns, but that's when you get playing like a crash test dummy, DOPE)


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## RX (May 24, 2006)

Sammy D would be AWESOME...and he'd love to play here...too bad i dont see it happening


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## Boob-No-More (Apr 24, 2006)

trick said:


> BNM has brought up some good points in his little debate with seifer in that other thread in that Outlaw is young, athletic and has improved in each season up to date.


Especially this season. He's only 23, but has five years of NBA experience. Over the last three years his scoring average has gone from 5.8 PPG to 9.6 PPG to 13.3 PPG. And his increased scoring is not just a result of increased minutes. If you look at his PTS/36, it's also steadily increased from 12.5 PTS/36 to 15.2 PTS/36 to 18.0 PTS/36. So, he's not just getting more minutes, he has shown true improvement.

Ironically, the reason he may be available is because Rudy Fernandez is coming and will likely assume the role of No. 1 offensive option off the bench. Also, Nate played Outlaw most of his minutes this year at back-up power forward. With Oden starting at center, backed-up by Przybilla, Channing Frye will now assume that role. So, Outlaw becomes expendable. 



trick said:


> Rudy may be a project (I know how you don't want any more Euro projects), but he would still add some athleticism on the wings.


While Rudy is unproven at the NBA level, he's not some raw, unproven project (like Bargnani). He has been playing on the Spainish national team since he was 16 and professionally in Europe since he was 17. And, not just playing, excelling. He has won MVP awards at every major European tournament and is widely considered the best player in the second best league in the world. But, that's irrelevant. You're not getting him. 



trick said:


> Both players are also cheap too.


Very. Outlaw signed an extension last summer that pays him well below the MLE ($4 million per year) for two more seasons. And Fernandez will be on a rookie scale contract - and a low rent one at that. He was drafted 24th last year due to the status of his European contract that didn't permit him to play in the NBA this season.



trick said:


> -Sergio Rodriguez


Sergio is much more of a project than Rudy. He's younger and much more raw. He's not getting the minutes in Portland he needs to develop. With Blake, Jack and Roy all getting minutes at PG, there simply isn't enough minutes to go around. That will be even more of a problem for Sergio if the Blazers acquire a new starting PG. He has the potential to be a special PG (ala Calderon), but I don't see him getting that opportunity in Portland. So, he may be available, and he'll come cheaply. Just don't count on him helping your team for a couple years.

BNM


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

Dalembert signed through 2011 and is making 10mil plus hes out of the picture to us


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## Boob-No-More (Apr 24, 2006)

southeasy said:


> *Samuel Dalembert* (canadian; would bring our inside presence to a different level IMO)


This is the type of player you need starting at center for you next to Bosh. Dalembert's biggest problem is that he's wildly inconsistent. He only shows up to play about once every 3 - 4 games, but when he does show up, Philadelphia is almost unbeatable. He's that much of a difference maker - when he plays to his fullest ability. If he could ever play his best day-in and day-out, he'd be an all-star. I doubt if Philly would give him up, though.

BNM


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## billfindlay10 (Jan 24, 2003)

As far as a bench guy goes...does anyone think that Sheldon Williams would make the most of a fresh start? I don't think he is in the Kings plans, maybe TJ and filler for Ron and Williams.


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## southeasy (Jun 11, 2003)

Rasho has a pretty hefty contract. but your probably right.

& travis outlaw is killer, he's like a clutch- current jamario moon, 5 years younger. he could improve taking it to the hole more, like a shorter chris bosh, but those dunks are top notch,.


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

billfindlay10 said:


> As far as a bench guy goes...does anyone think that Sheldon Williams would make the most of a fresh start? I don't think he is in the Kings plans, maybe TJ and filler for Ron and Williams.


Good find. 



southeasy said:


> Samuel Dalembert (canadian; would bring our inside presence to a different level IMO)


Dalembert would be a welcome fit, but with the way the Sixers ended the season and their somewhat playoff success (if you can call it that), there could be some optimism in building around the core of Miller, Iguodala, Young and Dalembert, with Miller the most likely one ousted to improve the roster if it comes to that. I'm willing to bet Stefanski will be sticking onto Dalembert like white on rice.


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

Boob-No-More said:


> Also, Nate played Outlaw most of his minutes this year at back-up power forward. With Oden starting at center, backed-up by Przybilla, Channing Frye will now assume that role. So, Outlaw becomes expendable.


Which bring up my theory that if BC is stubborn in building around a Bosh/Bargnani tandem it makes acquiring a physical SF all the more important. An SF who can do alot of the things a PF and C can, but can't adapt to those two positions full-time due to lack of height and strength (i.e. Travis Outlaw, Tyrus Thomas, Josh Smith, Gerald Wallace). Such players are akin to scoring without touches and rely heavily on athleticism to be effective and hungry.


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## RX (May 24, 2006)

southeasy said:


> Rasho has a pretty hefty contract. but your probably right.
> 
> & travis outlaw is killer, he's like a clutch- current jamario moon, 5 years younger. he could improve taking it to the hole more, like a shorter chris bosh, but those dunks are top notch,.


Rasho's contract is his best asset! he's expiring the year after next!


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## Boob-No-More (Apr 24, 2006)

RX said:


> Rasho's contract is his best asset! he's expiring the year after next!


Technically, he COULD be expiring this summer - if he chooses not to exercise the player option year of his current contract. I doubt if it would happen though. Unless he has a longer term deal lined up, he'd be pretty stupid to walk away from $8.4 million.

BNM


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

Shelden Williams is an interesting option. He could be had for cheap and AP can whip him into shape if he ever becomes lazy.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

As for Dalembert I don't think Philly would let him go. They have something good going and with almost 10 mil of cap space after this year they ought to think with a few good signings they should be right into the mix of teams that can contend in the East. Maybe not next year, but they could be a force in a couple years.


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## Boob-No-More (Apr 24, 2006)

seifer0406 said:


> As for Dalembert I don't think Philly would let him go. They have something good going and with almost 10 mil of cap space after this year they ought to think with a few good signings they should be right into the mix of teams that can contend in the East. Maybe not next year, but they could be a force in a couple years.


Agreed 100%. Productive centers in their 20s are a rare commodity - which is why they tend to also be overpaid (relative to other positions). When you have one, you tend to hold onto him. About the only time you see a productive center under 30 traded is when a team is looking to dump salary and totally rebuild from the ground up. Philadelphia is definitely not in that mode any more. Dalembert may struggle with consistency, and he'll never be a great scorer, but he's a very good rebounder and an outstanding inside defensive presence. He's just about to turn 27 and entering his prime. I don't see Philly trading him any time soon.

BNM


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## Onions Baby (Mar 12, 2007)

Brandon Bass would be a great addition for us in my opinion. He's a banger, can hit the mid-range jumper, and is always on the glass and trying to dunk it on somebody. Makes us a lot tougher and slightly blacker.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

Dallas will not let Bass go. They searched for someone like him for years and now finally got one.


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## billfindlay10 (Jan 24, 2003)

I forgot about the connection with Sheldon Williams and Anthony Parker....Sheldon and Candace are a couple.


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## cram (Jul 18, 2003)

I'd love Marvin Williams. Wonder if we could flip our under-performing top pick for their underperforming #2 pick. It'd allow them to move Josh Smith back to SF (where he belongs), and play Horford and Bargs at PF/C. 

We get an uber talented SF who contributes substantially now but still has LOTS of upside. We're left without a center (other than Rasho) but we pretty much don't have a center right now anyway. Plus we'd still have TJ or JOse to trade for one.


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## a_i_4_life (Dec 24, 2004)

we should move up in the draft and maybe draft Love as a Centre


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## Onions Baby (Mar 12, 2007)

Would anyone else find it extremely weird to watch Bargnani play outside of Toronto? Maybe it's just me but that would just look really awkward, him not knowing much english and having to adapt to a new city again. Just seems strange.


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## a_i_4_life (Dec 24, 2004)

Onions said:


> Would anyone else find it extremely weird to watch Bargnani play outside of Toronto? Maybe it's just me but that would just look really awkward, him not knowing much english and having to adapt to a new city again. Just seems strange.


i could see him playing somewhere else and dropping 20 a game


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## RapsFan (Feb 4, 2003)

A couple other names to add from the Minnesota Timberwolves:

Craig Smith
Ryan Gomes


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## billfindlay10 (Jan 24, 2003)

RapsFan said:


> A couple other names to add from the Minnesota Timberwolves:
> 
> Craig Smith
> Ryan Gomes


I like Gomes at the 3 spot.


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## southeasy (Jun 11, 2003)

gomes > smith

i thought smith, but a poster reminded me he's really vertically challenged for a PF.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

BC should've made a push for Glen Davis. But then again who knows how good he'll be without Garnett tutoring him.


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## andalusian (Jun 29, 2006)

Boob-No-More said:


> While Rudy is unproven at the NBA level, he's not some raw, unproven project (like Bargnani). He has been playing on the Spainish national team since he was 16 and professionally in Europe since he was 17. And, not just playing, excelling. He has won MVP awards at every major European tournament and is widely considered the best player in the second best league in the world. But, that's irrelevant. You're not getting him.


First of all, Rudy did not win MVP at every level of the European play, simply because he never played at the top level there (Euroleague). His team never made it to the Euroleague.

And while I, as a Blazers fan hope he will be great for years to come - to say that he is an upgrade at shooting guard for the Raptors is questionable at best. Remember that Anthony Parker was a lot more dominant than Rudy was at the European level - including being MVP of the Euroleague and the Euroleage final-four - not to mention multiple times Euroleague champion.

Anthony Parker dominated European basketball at the highest level to an extent that Rudy never got to experience. It is a fact.


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## spuriousjones (Apr 24, 2004)

rudy could fit well in toronto, though. he's a good looking prospect going to a team with their best player already playing his position--the redundancy makes him a good chip for portland.

the kid's got a big decision to make. he wants to play and can make a lot more money in europe, especailly in spain with their nationality requirements.

what do you guys think about *ben gordon?* positives: strong, athletic, great one-on-one player, pretty clutch. he's proven he can score.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

Ben Gordon isn't exactly strong and athletic and certainly can't guard anybody that our team can't guard right now. He can probably thrive on a team that can cover for his weaknesses, but on the Raptors many of his weaknesses are also the weaknesses of the team.

If the Bulls are blowing their team up I wouldn't mind getting Nocioni in a trade. He brings some much needed toughness to our team and can move Moon to the 6th man spot. We will still need to find an upgrade at the shooting guard spot, but getting Nocioni shouldn't exhaust all of our trade assets this summer.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

And this might sound crazy, but what about trying to make a deal to acquire Steve Nash? There is a chance that the Suns will look to rebuild the team around Amare and unload Nash while he still has some value. We all know about Colangelo's connection with Phoenix and Nash certainly wouldn't oppose to finishing his career in Canada. He only has 1 year left on his contract and a team option for the year after. If his play drops off next season the Raptors can choose to let him walk or sign him for a smaller contract.

Heres the plan:

TJ Ford + Bargnani (Maybe a pick) for Steve Nash

Bargnani gets to play the high post area next to Shaq/Amare, can even play the 3 if all 3 of them are on the floor at the same time. TJ Ford fills in for Nash as the starting PG, a downgrade but should still be acceptable as long as he stays healthy.

The Raptors with Bargnani gone will draft Hibbert or the Lopez twin and either have him start next to Bosh or backup Rasho. Calderon will backup Nash and allow Nash to play less minutes and hopefully keep him fresh for the playoffs. The Raptors then use Rasho's expiring contract along with Kapono and try to acquire an upgrade at the SG/SF spot. Maybe not at Maggette's level but perhaps someone around Josh Childress/Marvin Williams type or perhaps even Travis Outlaw. So roughly speaking we end up with something like this (Without Rasho/Kapono trade):

C: Rasho/Robin Lopez(Hibbert)/Brezec
PF: Bosh/Humphries/Garbajosa
SF: Moon/Delfino/Garbajosa
SG: Parker/Kapono/Delfino
PG: Nash/Calderon/Ukic

I'm not going to include any extra additions because I don't know who we can get, but I think this lineup is a lot better than one we have right now. If we can get a cheap inside player like a Craig Smith and throw him in the mix it would improve some of our weaknesses this season.


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## Boob-No-More (Apr 24, 2006)

andalusian said:


> First of all, Rudy did not win MVP at every level of the European play, simply because he never played at the top level there (Euroleague). His team never made it to the Euroleague.


Yes, Rudy did play in the Euroleague with his team DKV Joventut. He didn't win the MVP, but was named the 2006-2007 Euroleague Rising Star for being the top Euroleague player under 23 years old. He has also won the follwoing MVP awards:

2006 FIBA EuroCup Final Four MVP
2008 Copa del Rey MVP
2007-08 ULEB Cup Finals MVP

And is currently a leading candidate for the 2008 ACB league MVP.

BNM


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## kirk_2003 (Jun 23, 2003)

just going on the list that trick has..

Leandro Barbosa - i definately like his game.. i like his composure and his swagger.. he is reminds me of what mike james bought to us a few yrs back if he indeed acquire him.. but definately better then mike james of course [yes]


Paul Millsap - definately brings some toughness and grit upfront that we so desparately need.. [yes]


Josh Childress or Marvin Williams - i find childress just mediocre.. i thought the consensus on this board was we gotta stop adding mediocre player.. i personally feel childress is a mediocre player.. [no]

Marvin Williams on the other hand.. has good upside.. but he is a tweener.. almost like a Villanueva.. i dont watch a lot of ATL games.. but from the little action i see.. his game is on the perimeter.. i definately dont know much of his D-game.. [no]


Travis Outlaw [yes] need i explain more? he is 23 and hasnt even tapped into his potential.. takes big shots in the 4th quarter and can create for himself and other players.. how much times did we see hedo a 6'9 break us down off the dribble and create for his teammates.. Travis can do that for us!


Mike Miller - decent shooter, a scorer and and can create for the team.. [yes]

Desagna Diop or Saer Sene or John Petro - raw bigs? unlimited potential.. great athleticism.. thats a start! [yes]

Charlie Bell - a good replacemet for ford? if he does go and calderon stays..

Andray Blatche - a little more developed then the 3 raw bigs i just mentioned.. [yes]

--------------------

some players i feel we should look at are..

Maggette..
Camby.. [denver might wanna change things up?]
Jamal Crawford..
Quintin Richardson.. [just thinking of those LAC days]
Eddy Curry?! [NYK has a lot of individual talent.. dont they? throw in Lee and Balkman too i guess]
Quinton Ross..
Dorrell Wright..


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

I'm thinking Kwame Brown. Yes, he's a bigger bust of a #1 pick than Andrea could ever be but he's in our price range (split MLE) and he gives us a much needed big-athlete to pair with B&B. He's entering his prime, at 26 years old, with plenty of experience (albeit maligned) and what has to be a desperation to find an NBA home where he fits in. For the right coach (and I see Sam being that guy for many such players), I think Kwame would do the dirty work. Ours isn't a complicated system I know he can set a solid screen. I like his mobility for a potential big line. He's not a great shotblocker or rebounder, merely passable, but he can play defense. The greatest concern is his shot, or lack thereof, in our system.

Again, the price is right. Hired muscle that you don't have to use a draft pick and time developing. Any big man we pick up will be a backup; we should be frugal. Does this guy have any work ethic though? How do you let your free throw shooting get that bad? I also don't like his inability to get off the floor and attack the rim. But I think he's probably a better NBA big man than Hibbert.

Outlaw and a trade with Portland is also tantalizing. Outlaw doesn't have much of a handle but he's got length and athleticism out the ying yang. I want their draft pick too of course.

With two draft picks i think you go with one big one wing. Right now let's say Russell Westbrook and...JaVale McGee.

Go young and then swing for the fences. Jettison your vets and then be prepared to cut Sam if the team struggles. Now we're a strong young team heading into next year's postseason, be it lotto or playoffs, and have a full head of steam heading into 2009-2010.

Pre-consolidation:

TJ/Ukic/Westbrook
Kapono/Westbrook
Moon/Outlaw/Joey
Bosh/JaVale/Hump
Bargnani/Joel/Rasho

I think BC trades AP this season, perhaps along with TJ or Calderon. Of course I'd be happy keeping him, the guy is fantastic, it's just that he's a veteran and we should be able to get great value. Could we trade AP and Jose for Outlaw, Joel, and the 13th?


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

oh yeah, forget Kwame.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

and it might be Raef, rather than Joel, but who knows what BC can pull off.


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## billfindlay10 (Jan 24, 2003)

Parker would be a great fit on a lot of teams....great spot starter and 6th 7th man. He has very good shooting percentages and is a quality guy. Putting him in a deal with TJ may be the key to getting us someone of good value! He would be great on the Hornets...but they don't need a point guard....Nice fit in Philly and Orlando as well.


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## andalusian (Jun 29, 2006)

Boob-No-More said:


> Yes, Rudy did play in the Euroleague with his team DKV Joventut. He didn't win the MVP, but was named the 2006-2007 Euroleague Rising Star for being the top Euroleague player under 23 years old. He has also won the follwoing MVP awards:
> 
> 2006 FIBA EuroCup Final Four MVP
> 2008 Copa del Rey MVP
> ...


You are right, they did play in the top-16 in 2006/2007 - but could not advance to the final 4 (finished last in group E) - it was such a miserable showing for the team that I forgot all about it. It still does not come close to Anthony Parker's achievements:

2004 final-4 MVP
2004 - All Euroleague MVP
2005 - All Euroleague MVP
and team champions 2003 and 2004. 

What Rudy has going for him is his age and potential. What he has against him include his weight and body. Parker has an NBA body - I am not sure that Rudy does as well. It is unfortunate that we did not see a prime Anthony Parker in the NBA - but I would be very surprised if Rudy is an upgrade over Parker in the next year or two. Very unlikely, imho.

With all due respect to Rudy, the EuroCup and ULEB Cup achievements are not even close in value to the Euroleauge MVP award. It's like comparing the college player of the year to the NBA MVP. A good achievement, for sure, but no-one mistakes which one is a much harder award to win.


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## Junkyard Dog13 (Aug 9, 2003)

Ron Artest
Nazr Mohammad
Sheldon Williams
Jarret Jack
Travis Outlaw
Jason Maxciel
Cory Maggette
Josh Howard


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## ballocks (May 15, 2003)

honestly, if the raps are to address their areas of weakness, i can't see a solution coming in the form of a complementary piece. i think we tried that already, acquiring a defensive-minded drive-to-the-basket-type in carlos delfino. he didn't change anything about the team. they continued to struggle getting to the basket, keeping players in front of them and grabbing defensive rebounds with or without delfino on the floor. if anything, the team's culture began to affect carlos' game and _he_ became one of _them_.

my point is that if the team is not going to change the way it develops its players and its attitude- as it's shown that it won't- the culture can only be addressed by shaking the foundation of the roster. i'm thinking corey maggette, paul pierce, manu ginobili, josh smith, andre iguodala- in other words, *stars*, players who don't just add a small piece to the team, but in fact _replace_ a serious chunk of its identity.

imo, the 'weak' basketball (for lack of a better term) we've played has been around long enough to permeate the team's psyche. i blame everyone for that. the problem now is that it won't just go away by itself, as shown by the resounding disappointment of this season. it needs to be fixed. patience is no longer an option. the thing is, fixing it would require big changes and i'm not sure we're willing to make them- to speak nothing of whether they can even be made at all (acquiring a star is never easy).

if i were in charge, i'd move up to 10 players, everyone but jose calderon and chris bosh. and there are some assets among them that may be able to return a top-flight player, especially if said top-flight player has a bad contract and/or is wanting out of his current home.

rasho nesterovic (still not sure if he has an expiring deal?)
anthony parker (expiring)
jason kapono (imo, big piece)
tj ford
andrea bargnani
jamario moon (wish we signed him for a 3rd yr and got his birds)
carlos delfino s&t
jorge garbajosa (expiring but no value)
kris humphries
joey graham
1st rd pick

those are our pawns this summer. the majority of them are coming off worse seasons than they'll have next year. frustrating. i do not want to endure another season of "underutilization" and/or non-development. long-term, it's a problem that needs fixing. short-term, (imo) we need to get as many of these shellshocked bodies out of toronto as possible. 

peace


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## ballocks (May 15, 2003)

Junkyard Dog13 said:


> Sheldon Williams


see, i wouldn't mind him. he'd come cheap, too. the problem is, if our primary weakness is rebounding and interior defense *and* we plan to stick with our pride by starting bargnani and bosh at the 4 and 5, acquiring another big man- rebounder or not- would mean that he'd come off the bench. the raptors will never address their glaring weakness inside by adding bench players, imo. if bargnani and bosh are our starters, this team then by default needs to find a way to address its weakness on the glass and on defense by finding perimeter defenders to do the job! it's like finding a centre who shoots threes!

i mean, sabonises do exist but they're not common. imo, the team either needs to put bargnani on the wing or trade bargnani to another team. developing bargnani (if that's what you call it) in the paint is not worth the risk. b&b are not small but they play very small. absolutely nothing has shown me that that will change. i'm going off on a tangent here. 

peace


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## ballocks (May 15, 2003)

i wonder if there's any way the raps could acquire- wait for it- carmelo anthony. probably not. i don't know if he'd be the right guy but he would seem to fit, imo.

they probably see him in denver the way chris bosh is seen in toronto- i.e. the only untradeable piece- but you never know. although he wouldn't address our defensive shortcomings, he's got a swagger that we lack. he's durable and he's got star power. i would feel comfortable with bosh, melo and a cast of unknowns if it came to that. we'd be able to keep one of our point guards, in all likelihood, so that would leave a devastating trio of players who can get to the basket (melo can actually finish, too- bonus). and we could finally begin to spend our draft picks and free agents on proven rotation pieces instead of trying to find diamonds in the rough.

ford
kapono
anthony
bosh
humphries

garbo and joey on the bench. everyone else to denver (calderon, nesterovic, bargnani, moon, delfino, parker, 1st rd 2008, 1st rd 2010). all kidding aside, i think that team would win more games than we won this year- and that's also assuming ford sits out 40 games again.

peace


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## spuriousjones (Apr 24, 2004)

sabonis! we need sabonis!

we don't just have to get talent, we need to develop and exercise the talent we have. i blamed it on sam all year-- not using our guys correctly. but he's not the only one responsible for development.

where the hell's our bigman coach? come on, a scoring guard named alex english is supposed to teach our bigs _everything he knows about how to play the position_? bynum and howard sure don't have shootingguards teaching them--and they've been playing as bigmen the whole time.

how can you invest the no.1 pick, millions of dollars, and all your hopes in a guy you want to play a position he's never before played (a position some would argue is just as hard to learn as pointguard) and just expect the kid to pick it up as he goes along? that's idiotic.

this is the same team that paid alonzo mourning $10MM for nothing! we need to step up our player development bigtime. bring in sabonis! SABAS! SABAS!


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

Carmelo on the trade block 

http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_9199420

he makes $14,410,581 next year to Tj 8 million, but you can toss in some filler for him if possible


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

Francisco Elson and Marcus Haislip.

Athleticism for hire in the frontcourt.


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## billfindlay10 (Jan 24, 2003)

SkywalkerAC said:


> Francisco Elson and Marcus Haislip.
> 
> Athleticism for hire in the frontcourt.


And they are better than Baston how? We all know he did nothing!


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## southeasy (Jun 11, 2003)

IMO, Marcus Haislip is one of the best players in the world not in the NBA. going to europe really like.. Seriously, brought his game to the next level.

he can do everything there is to do in the game of basketball at the PF slot. he can hit jumpers (three's), he can steal, block, make no-look passes, unselfish, rebounder, & crazy dribbles for a big. absolutely destroyed the memphis grizzlies and other nba competition this past preseason. i'd love him here.

btw Baston only did nothing, because the time he got to prove his game was essentially nothing. Haislip has more tendancy to get his game off (like a delfino in a way), compared to that of a low-key like Baston.


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## Dee-Zy (Jan 12, 2006)

I can't believe Melo is on the block but him and Bosh would make us instant contenders AFTER we get a solid 5.


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## billfindlay10 (Jan 24, 2003)

Melo could be a great piece, Bosh has played with him on team USA a=so there is some history with them. The upgrade in scoring and defensive attention that would be given to Anthony would change us completely. I don't think any other major upgrade wold be needed, provided that Bargnani turns it up a bit this summer getting healthy and working on his game and not being with his national team....I think that hurt him this year.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

I don't think we have enough trade pieces for Colangelo to even attempt such a trade.


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

seifer0406 said:


> I don't think we have enough trade pieces for Colangelo to even attempt such a trade.


You don't think so

Carmelo makes 14 mill Tj or Jose gonna make 8 mill Denver needs to get more athletic and better defensively insert Joey and his 2 mill thats 10mill with 4 mill remainling you can go anyway Added Garbo or AP. Also imo Denver wants to blow it up it strikes me that that they put Melo on the and his 3 remaining on the block rather than Ai and his expiring contract if Blowing it up the route they want to go then either Tj or Jose with an expiring of AP or Rasho will get it done


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

Melo isn't exactly some random player, he's an allstar. i assume kiki would want Bosh.


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## spuriousjones (Apr 24, 2004)

think of how much trouble melo must really be for the nuggs to even contemplate trading him. and i don't remember reading anything about them looking/wanting to trade him, just that they'd "listen". there's a big difference. its a gm's job to listen--that's the essence of the job. if bc refused to listen to offers for bosh he should be fired.

problem with haislip is that sam's already coached him out of the league twice. ok, that's not fair, he assistant coached him out of the league one of those times. but i'm pretty sure he was on our roster for a time 

wasn't it marcus and jelani that got david (future raptors coach) blatt fired?


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

SkywalkerAC said:


> Melo isn't exactly some random player, he's an allstar. i assume kiki would want Bosh.


Well if you look at the star trades over the years you never get full value for a superstar we should know better than anybody lol


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## vinsanity77 (May 1, 2006)

SkywalkerAC said:


> Melo isn't exactly some random player, he's an allstar. i assume kiki would want Bosh.


actually... kiki works for the Nets now... but we all know what you mean...
i actually think melo to raps is feasible but only if Denver were to overhaul its roster.

We would have to give up calderon/tj, obviously, (hopefully its TJ),Bargnani and our pick this year to get it done. From the Nugs' point of view, they would have to get rid of AI as well, as much as I hate to say it cuz a TJ/AI tandem would just be like a Anthony Carter/AI tandem on defence. for the nuggets, the lineup would like
Camby, Bargnani, K-mart, JR Smith, TJ. There should be more ball movement with this lineup as Bargnani's a decent passer for a big man and TJ being a better playmaker than Anthony Carter.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

Mr_B said:


> You don't think so
> 
> Carmelo makes 14 mill Tj or Jose gonna make 8 mill Denver needs to get more athletic and better defensively insert Joey and his 2 mill thats 10mill with 4 mill remainling you can go anyway Added Garbo or AP. Also imo Denver wants to blow it up it strikes me that that they put Melo on the and his 3 remaining on the block rather than Ai and his expiring contract if Blowing it up the route they want to go then either Tj or Jose with an expiring of AP or Rasho will get it done


It's not a matter of money, it's the fact that neither TJ nor Calderon are anywhere in the same echelon as Carmelo. The problem with Denver's cap situation lies in Nene and Kmart, just getting rid of Melo isn't going to help them rebuild.

The only offer that we have that is anywhere near "considerable" is perhaps Calderon/Bargnani/Rasho/AP/Garbo/1st round pick(s) for Melo and Kmart. That is still really pushing it as I just don't think the amount of potential that is created for Denver through this trade justifies them getting rid of a 24 year old whose potential is still much higher than anybody in this trade.

Another reason why I said we have no chance is because there are many teams out there that can give much better offers than what we have right now. Portland could give something like Outlaw/Aldridge/pick/Raef for Melo, Miami could trade their pick + Marion for Melo, Hawks have an assortment of young talent with Josh Smith/Marvin Williams, the Mavs could trade them Josh Howard and more, Magic with Turkolu, etc. I can think of more than 15 teams in the league that can use someone like Melo and almost all of their offers are at least comparable or better than ours.

From the Raptors prospective, if we are going to make a big change by gutting the team to go after a certain player, I much rather we go after lower profile guys that can be had for less. Someone like Marion/Howard/Artest would all fit our team right now and are more realistic in terms of attainability.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

Chris Anderson a free agent?


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

SkywalkerAC said:


> Chris Anderson a free agent?


stay away from him


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## southeasy (Jun 11, 2003)

spuriousjones said:


> think of how much trouble melo must really be for the nuggs to even contemplate trading him. and i don't remember reading anything about them looking/wanting to trade him, just that they'd "listen". there's a big difference. its a gm's job to listen--that's the essence of the job. if bc refused to listen to offers for bosh he should be fired.
> 
> problem with haislip is that sam's already coached him out of the league twice. ok, that's not fair, he assistant coached him out of the league one of those times. but i'm pretty sure he was on our roster for a time
> 
> wasn't it marcus and jelani that got david (future raptors coach) blatt fired?


are you talking the haislip in milwaukee in regards to sam? Marcus did play for toronto's summerleague team one year, and was the best player on the team, but left unsigned, went over to euro, and since then, exploded and matured as a player. i can see him coming back over as a AP type. needing the PT in europe to expand his game


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## spuriousjones (Apr 24, 2004)

yeah, marcus haislip in milwaulkee (may that was before sam was an assistant there but i thought it was the terry porter time--he looked pretty good in the run 'n gun system then, i was excited we got him for the sl and kinda suprized he didn't stick)

can haislip legitimately play the 3 is my biggest question about him. 

suposedly we have some interest in another euroleague player, david anderson from cska


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## NeoSamurai (Jan 16, 2003)

Linas Kleiza - I think he is waiting to burst like Hedo has in the past 2 years...just needs the minutes since hes stuck behind Melo

I think he can be had for AP who would be a nice defensive fit at the 2 guard and allow Melo/AI to take some breaks off on defense...


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## ballocks (May 15, 2003)

NeoSamurai said:


> I think he can be had for AP who would be a nice defensive fit at the 2 guard and allow Melo/AI to take some breaks off on defense...


that may be true but is that not kind of sad? the fact that some players think they could really use "some breaks" on defense is, at least to me, a sign that maybe those players just aren't the right ones to build around. 

peace


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