# How happy are you with the winning???



## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

it was well noted up until a week ago that alot of ppl here wanted the celts to lose so they could have a better pick in next years draft...after this 4 game win streak what are all of ur opinions now???


----------



## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

#1AntoineWalkerFan said:


> it was well noted up until a week ago that alot of ppl here wanted the celts to lose so they could have a better pick in next years draft...after this 4 game win streak what are all of ur opinions now???


Would I be happier if they got a good pick next year? Yes, yes I would.

Do I understand the Celtics will do whatever's necessary to keep stay at the medicore level? Yes, yes I do, so we may as well win. 

Let's go Celtics.


----------



## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

aquaitious said:


> Would I be happier if they got a good pick next year? Yes, yes I would.
> 
> Do I understand the Celtics will do whatever's necessary to keep stay at the medicore level? Yes, yes I do, so we may as well win.
> 
> Let's go Celtics.




you claim to not want to stay in mediocrity yet you oppose a trade for the leading scorer in the nba which would make us instant atlantic division winners and playoff bound...i guess that makes sense...


----------



## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

#1AntoineWalkerFan said:


> you claim to not want to stay in mediocrity yet you oppose a trade for the leading scorer in the nba which would make us instant atlantic division winners and playoff bound...i guess that makes sense...





> Noun	1.	mediocrity - ordinariness as a
> consequence of being average and not outstanding


AI does not make us outstanding, he makes us win the Atlantic divison. Which is nothing to be proud of.


----------



## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

cmon aqua listen to urslef...you talk like there is mediocre and outsanding and nothing in between...sorry but there is planety in between...iverson would make us very good...just because he doesnt put us on the level of the suns doesnt mean he shouldnt come here...he brings us from being a bad team to a very good one...that would please me


----------



## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

If the Celtics can win enough to finish with a top six seed, I'll be happy. I understand that is not very plausible and that is why I prefer reducing Pierce and Szczerbiak's minutes in favor of the younger players for two reasons. One, to allow them to gain experience. Second, and most importantly, to determine if they are worthy of their contracts and prepare accordingly for next season. I do not propose tanking on purpose. I propose increased minutes for inferior players, which will result in losses and will not only net the Celtics a good lottery selection, but also valuable information on the talent and production of their young players, namely Gerald Green, Rajon Rondo, Tony Allen, Delonte West, and Al Jefferson.


----------



## Al Jefferson (Nov 20, 2003)

Premier said:


> but also valuable information on the talent and production of their young players, namely Gerald Green, Rajon Rondo, Tony Allen, Delonte West, and Al Jefferson.


They're gaining expierence while winning games now =) .. 
The team is finally starting to click.
Hopefully Doc still lets Al have his minutes and let the guys play. Only bad thing out of the Bobcats game was Rondo's DNP.


----------



## mrsister (Sep 9, 2002)

Hasn't the goal been to develop the young guys? Well, that seems to be happening. Ironically, injuries have helped the team. The young guys are getting more playing time and have been able to show what they can do. It's only been a few games, and people could still slip back into their old habits, but I'd rather see these guys learning how to win than not develop and lose the rest of the season for the chance at yet another young guy. I think we've all wanted Allen, Jefferson, and Green to step up and show everyone what they can do, and now it's happening, and it's translating into wins. I'm still counting on them having some bad games, but I hope they don't take too many steps backwards. My only gripe is that Rondo has been benched for some reason. At least West is starting to play better.


----------



## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

#1AntoineWalkerFan said:


> cmon aqua listen to urslef...you talk like there is mediocre and outsanding and nothing in between...sorry but there is planety in between...iverson would make us very good...just because he doesnt put us on the level of the suns doesnt mean he shouldnt come here...he brings us from being a bad team to a very good one...that would please me


Oh yeah, that's exactly what I want the Celtics to do, be as good as McGrady's Magic or Garnett's Wolves and never win a Championship.

Yeah that'll make me happy, especially considering that we could have done just that four years ago with Walker and Pierce. But no, we choose to go another route and that is to win the whole thing.

A winning season does not please me now, not after three years of not winning, nor losing correctly.


----------



## mrsister (Sep 9, 2002)

aquaitious said:


> Oh yeah, that's exactly what I want the Celtics to do, be as good as McGrady's Magic or Garnett's Wolves and never win a Championship.
> 
> Yeah that'll make me happy, especially considering that we could have done just that four years ago with Walker and Pierce. But no, we choose to go another route and that is to win the whole thing.
> 
> A winning season does not please me now, not after three years of not winning, nor losing correctly.


How does getting a high draft pick get us any closer to a championship either? It seems like you want to go straight from a bad team to a championship team overnight. Even the teams who drafted the elite players (Shaq, Duncan, Kobe, Yao, Nash, Nowitzki, Lebron, etc.) didn't win a championship for several years or at all. Duncan was the closest when the Spurs won during a lockout year his second year in the league. After that, it still took them another 4 years to get back to the finals. 

Teams win championships, not players. It certainly helps to have a dominant player or two, but that alone won't win. The Celtics need consistency as well as talent. I think building team chemistry and gaining experience is more important than any one player. Sure, a great player would help, but I think that may actually hinder the team as a whole because the other players will go back to watching Pierce and whoever do their thing. I'd rather have people like Jefferson, Allen, and Green gain more confidence, so that when the time comes that we can acquire another star, they'll be ready to contribute and already know how to play together. And who knows, we might actually already have a star on our team. If Jefferson keeps it up, we may already have a 20/10 monster on our hands.


----------



## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

mrsister said:


> How does getting a high draft pick get us any closer to a championship either?


The draft pick alone doesn't. The draft pick + trading some young guys to a rebuilding team for a very good player does.



mrsister said:


> It seems like you want to go straight from a bad team to a championship team overnight.


Considering that I've watched crap for the past three years [save for ~25 games], yeah I guess I do now.



mrsister said:


> Even the teams who drafted the elite players (Shaq, Duncan, Kobe, Yao, Nash, Nowitzki, Lebron, etc.) didn't win a championship for several years or at all. Duncan was the closest when the Spurs won during a lockout year his second year in the league. After that, it still took them another 4 years to get back to the finals.


You're right, they didn't [win a championship], but year in year out they've been considered that they can win one. Do you expect this current team to do so? Do you even expect to keep five or even four of these players? Has Danny really hit gold nine out of nine times? 



mrsister said:


> Teams win championships, not players. It certainly helps to have a dominant player or two, but that alone won't win. The Celtics need consistency as well as talent.


True, that's why we need a better overall team.



mrsister said:


> I think building team chemistry and gaining experience is more important than any one player. Sure, a great player would help, but I think that may actually hinder the team as a whole because the other players will go back to watching Pierce and whoever do their thing. I'd rather have people like Jefferson, Allen, and Green gain more confidence, so that when the time comes that we can acquire another star, they'll be ready to contribute and already know how to play together. And who knows, we might actually already have a star on our team. If Jefferson keeps it up, we may already have a 20/10 monster on our hands.


I'm _not_ for tanking the season, I'm for letting the young players play and therefore losing a couple of games which would have been a sure thing if Pierce and Wally played 45 minutes. Give all the players a chance to develop, see who fits your plans of how you want to play basketball as a team and trade the ones that do not fit in your plan. It's as simple as that.

We'll probably end up as a 32-36 win team (again), not good enough to make the playoffs, not bad enough to get a good contributer throught the draft.

If Green, Rondo get no minutes, Perkins, Jefferson (until recently) get limited, where is this team headed?

We can only thank the basektball Gods for blessing us with some injuries so some of the young guys get to play.


----------



## mrsister (Sep 9, 2002)

aquaitious said:


> I'm _not_ for tanking the season, I'm for letting the young players play and therefore losing a couple of games which would have been a sure thing if Pierce and Wally played 45 minutes. Give all the players a chance to develop, see who fits your plans of how you want to play basketball as a team and trade the ones that do not fit in your plan. It's as simple as that.


It seems like that's what they're doing now. Wally has been injured, so that's given playing time to others, and when he came back, he came off the bench, which also helped. Now he's injured again, so players will get more playing time again. I wish Perkins wasn't injured because he needs more playing time, and we have been forced to play small whenever Al is off the court. On the plus side, he's been able to watch how Al is able to play aggressively without committing so many fouls. Hopefully, he can learn from that. I also wish Gomes wasn't injured because he's a player. It's too bad Scal is getting so much playing time, but I actually think he plays decently on the road. I just don't like when he plays at home. 

I don't want to say the Celtics have turned the corner because we all know how quickly things can change, but I do think they're doing the right things to get better. People aren't relying on others to get the job done. They're taking it upon themselves. Also, by developing all these players, it will raise their stock when we want to seriously make a trade. If they start playing so well that they're untradeable, then the Celtics still make out. 

You say you're not for tanking the season, but I seem to remember you hoping for them to lose. Isn't that the same thing? I don't think players gain any confidence by losing. I also think winning keeps Pierce happy and willing to keep at it. Because although some of you wouldn't mind trading Pierce, I really don't think we could get equivalent or better talent in return.


----------



## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

mrsister said:


> It seems like that's what they're doing now. Wally has been injured, so that's given playing time to others, and when he came back, he came off the bench, which also helped. Now he's injured again, so players will get more playing time again. I wish Perkins wasn't injured because he needs more playing time, and we have been forced to play small whenever Al is off the court. On the plus side, he's been able to watch how Al is able to play aggressively without committing so many fouls. Hopefully, he can learn from that. I also wish Gomes wasn't injured because he's a player. It's too bad Scal is getting so much playing time, but I actually think he plays decently on the road. I just don't like when he plays at home.


Sadly this is what they should have been doing since they traded Walker and stacked up on young players. It took them a season where they have 10 out of 15 guys who are 25 or younger, and have the veterans injured, to finally get to this point. 



mrsister said:


> You say you're not for tanking the season, but I seem to remember you hoping for them to lose. Isn't that the same thing? I don't think players gain any confidence by losing. I also think winning keeps Pierce happy and willing to keep at it. Because although some of you wouldn't mind trading Pierce, I really don't think we could get equivalent or better talent in return.


When they play the veterans, I am in favor of them losing, because Veal, Wally, Pierce, Kandi and/or Ratlif dont' need improvement.

When the young guys play, what happens, happens...although usually it will mean we'll lose.


----------



## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

#1AntoineWalkerFan said:


> it was well noted up until a week ago that alot of ppl here wanted the celts to lose so they could have a better pick in next years draft...after this 4 game win streak what are all of ur opinions now???


Do I really need to answer this question - you know where I stand! 

This 5 game win streak is fantastic. It's simply more fun to win than to lose. And a 5 game streak for any team is nothing to sneeze at. I have never been for tanking it for many reasons. This is great. I want more.


----------



## pokpok (Jul 26, 2005)

i love it, tho i find it funny that in these 5 game winning streak, we have scalabrine starting and wally was hurt and resprained his ankle again..also gomes hasnt played for 2 games too..


----------



## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

I was thinking about that as well. As much as I have been happy with Wally - is it a fluke, or do we play better with him not on the floor?


----------



## mrsister (Sep 9, 2002)

Causeway said:


> I was thinking about that as well. As much as I have been happy with Wally - is it a fluke, or do we play better with him not on the floor?


I don't think we're better without him, but I do think he's better off the bench. That means there's usually a veteran and a proven scoring option on the floor at all times. But without him, that means more minutes for Tony and Gerald, which is good for their development, so in that sense, I like him not playing.


----------



## Aznboi812 (Nov 9, 2005)

i wonder whats going to happen when gomes and perkins come back


----------



## BleedGreen (Jun 24, 2002)

Aznboi812 said:


> i wonder whats going to happen when gomes and perkins come back


Scal plays less and Powe gets DNP's.


----------



## mqtcelticsfan (Apr 2, 2006)

BleedGreen said:


> Scal plays less and Powe gets DNP's.


Also, Jefferson will go to the 4 and continue his mediocre play we've come to expect.


----------



## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

mrsister said:


> I don't think we're better without him, but I do think he's better off the bench. That means there's usually a veteran and a proven scoring option on the floor at all times. But without him, that means more minutes for Tony and Gerald, which is good for their development, so in that sense, I like him not playing.


This should be one of those obvious things, when the Celtics start Allen, Pierce doesn't have to do all the defensive heavy lifting. Allen has responded well to the extra minutes, and so long as he's effectively D-ing up his man and allowing Pierce the occasional easy night on the defensive end, it's a better alignment.


----------



## BleedGreen (Jun 24, 2002)

Even when Wally gets back he should remain on the bench. He gives us a scoring punch and he gives us a go to guy when Pierce and Al are sitting.


----------



## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

Um.... if you're not happy with the winning I guess you're not a fan.

I'm happy because the C's are finally making me look smart. :smile:


----------



## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

BleedGreen said:


> Even when Wally gets back he should remain on the bench. He gives us a scoring punch and he gives us a go to guy when Pierce and Al are sitting.


And he makes room for Tony in the lineup, who gives a defensive presence and lately (gasp!) some offense too.


----------



## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

BleedGreen said:


> Even when Wally gets back he should remain on the bench. He gives us a scoring punch and he gives us a go to guy when Pierce and Al are sitting.



ummm...Yeah, that'll go over well with Wally. :lol:


----------



## cgcatsfan (Jun 10, 2005)

I'm very happy with the winning. 
Next year's lottery picks are anything but a foregone conclusion. Oden may or may not be in this draft. Even if he is, it's highly unlikely WE would get him. 

In case no one noticed, we're in a weak division, but we currently sit atop it. 
I'm for winning as many games as possible and not making Pierce want to leave after this year. We can speculate on drafts/trades for next year all we want. But the fact remains that as a team, we're getting better. As a celtics fan, I just can't be anything but happy about that.


----------



## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

ehmunro said:


> ummm...Yeah, that'll go over well with Wally. :lol:


Who cares? He doesn't like it he can leave.


----------



## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

TheBigDonut said:


> Who cares? He doesn't like it he can leave.


How well did that work out for Minnesota?


----------



## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

Interesting with some people - Wally - we choose to focus on a guys past and not his present. Wally has been great on and off the court here. Yet with others poeple were so quick to forget about the past.


----------



## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

ehmunro said:


> How well did that work out for Minnesota?


They got Ricky Davis


----------



## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

After three and a half years of trying. :biggrin:


----------



## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

I still don't want Blount back.


----------



## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

I'm thrilled. Call me crazy (and I know 98% of this board will), but I like when my favorite team wins, and it's even better when the young guys are playing a big part in said W's.


----------



## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

Causeway said:


> Interesting with some people - Wally - we choose to focus on a guys past and not his present. Wally has been great on and off the court here. Yet with others poeple were so quick to forget about the past.



yea but the reality of the present is hes already missing double digit games and we havent even cracked the 1/3 mark of the season yet...i think thats the biggest problem we are having with him


----------



## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

#1AntoineWalkerFan said:


> yea but the reality of the present is hes already missing double digit games and we havent even cracked the 1/3 mark of the season yet...i think thats the biggest problem we are having with him


The injuries are disappointing to me as well. But the whining in this thread I was refering to was in regard to people talking about Wally in MINN being upset about playing time and getting the ball. What does that have to do with how he's been in Boston?


----------



## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

#1AntoineWalkerFan said:


> yea but the reality of the present is hes already missing double digit games and we havent even cracked the 1/3 mark of the season yet...i think thats the biggest problem we are having with him


Actually, the team plays considerably better with Tony Allen in the starting lineup. :bsmile:


----------



## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

Forum Nazi aqua.


----------



## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

ehmunro said:


> Actually, the team plays considerably better with Tony Allen in the starting lineup. :bsmile:


And without Wally anywhere in sight.


----------



## blh5387 (Apr 6, 2006)

Gahhh, I'm sick of waiting for the celtics to play again.. I have to wait til tomorrow night, this is torture!


----------



## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

Forum Nazi aqua.


----------



## Baller_8 (Dec 20, 2006)

hopefully celtics beat warriors tomorrow. it will be a great game to watch


----------



## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

Forum Nazi aqua.


----------



## LX (Oct 14, 2004)

Forum Nazi aqua.


----------



## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

Forum Nazi aqua.

And now we're back to your regulary scheduled programming.


----------



## whiterhino (Jun 15, 2003)

We should have won, we should have beat the Warriors the last 21 seconds of that game were stupid. The fact that we had no bigs to speak of and were still in position to win given crappy turnovers is awesome but we should have won. Not happy with a loss like that but I do think this team has turned a corner.


----------



## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

I heart you aqua. This is the first time I've been back to this thread and all I'm seeing red.


----------



## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

P-Dub34 said:


> I heart you aqua. This is the first time I've been back to this thread and all I'm seeing red.


I felt pretty happy deleting everyone's well thought out insulting posts and marking it with "Forum Nazi aqua."

Seemed like a nice Christmas gift.


----------



## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

aquaitious said:


> I felt pretty happy deleting everyone's well thought out insulting posts and marking it with "Forum Nazi aqua."


I worked hard on those... :curse:

I only post in here to say I'm not that pissed about these losses. Actually kinda happy because Jefferson, Green, and Tony are all looking pretty good out there. But I know better than to say that equates to awesomeness when Pierce returns, unfortunately.


----------

