# Kristaps Porzingis Summer League Evaluation



## drk3351

Hey guys, analyzed the Summer League performance of the Knicks big man. Thanks for watching.


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## Ballscientist

the best skills in this draft?

good or bad pick?


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## JT

My analysis: He's legit. Could possibly be the best player from good draft when alls said and done.


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## Ballscientist

He could be better than Dirk and Pau Gasol.


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## HB

Ballscientist said:


> He could be better than Dirk and Pau Gasol.


lol


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## Tom

I think it depends on how he matures Physically...I would hope he doesn't try to bulk up to much, like Durant.

I've seen guys like him lose the agility they had when they weighed less and then get the dreaded foot injuries.

It is too early to tell how good he will be. He can be productive as long as he stays off the heroin.


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## kbdullah

Watched the first two minutes and wasn't impressed. He starts all his offensive moves too far away from the basket. He lacks a goto move off which to base other moves.


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## GNG

Ballscientist said:


> He could be better than Dirk and Pau Gasol.


Ballscientist, please.


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## jayk009

Not saying that he will end up like Bargnani but I remember when people were creaming their pants every time Bargnani made a touch pass in his rookie season. He really looked promising as a rookie too...Right now he is like Bargnani with more athleticism.

One thing that I'm very impressed with is how good he is at speaking english..even though it might not seem like much...it makes me think that he must be intelligent and that will translate in him being able to have a higher basketball IQ. It looks like he is just physically weak and is just very raw offensively. I have a feeling he will be very very good in 3-4 years assuming he keeps developing instead of stagnating like Bargnani.


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## seifer0406

As someone that had to sit through 5+ years of Bargnani I can say this. Whether or not this kid succeeds depend on whether he can average 8+ rebounds in 30 minutes. If he can do that then we'll talk about the other parts of his game. If not then we're likely looking at a NBA journeyman and a fringe role player as there simply isn't a starting role for a light rebounding 7 footer in the league. Not being able to rebound as a big man brings too much negative to your game where it's nearly impossible for you to do things in other areas to negate that.


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## jayk009

Do you remember when they were saying that Bargnani was really really mentally strong and they did some psychological test on him which he passed with flying colours saying that nothing really phased him.

Then he would get challenged to be a better rebounder and he seemed to put in effort for a few games and have good results and people would get all excited and then revert back to his old ways. 

Rookie Bargnani was really a guy who you thought the sky was the limit and if anyone was going to follow in the foot steps of Dirk it was him..It's weird how a guy that supposedly so mentally tough can be so soft on the court.


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## Sir Patchwork

Nice breakdown.


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## Bogg

seifer0406 said:


> As someone that had to sit through 5+ years of Bargnani I can say this. Whether or not this kid succeeds depend on whether he can average 8+ rebounds in 30 minutes. If he can do that then we'll talk about the other parts of his game. If not then we're likely looking at a NBA journeyman and a fringe role player as there simply isn't a starting role for a light rebounding 7 footer in the league. Not being able to rebound as a big man brings too much negative to your game where it's nearly impossible for you to do things in other areas to negate that.


To be fair, I don't think the Knicks are going to insist on playing Porzingis at center like the Raptors did with Bargs (I'm aware the presence of Chris Bosh was likely the driver of that), and the Robin Lopez signing will go a long was to just letting Porzingis develop in less of a forced way. I liked the Jerian Grant pickup for them as well - the Knicks are putting together some nicer young players than they've had in a while (which is admittedly setting the bar very low) and could be in a nice rebuilding situation once they get the pick they owe this year out of the way, should they move on from Carmelo (who I'm not convinced Phil loves). 

I've said this before, but a deal centered on some of Orlando's youth in exchange for Carmelo's ability to be a headliner come playoff time could make sense for both sides.


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## E.H. Munro

kbdullah said:


> Watched the first two minutes and wasn't impressed. He starts all his offensive moves too far away from the basket. He lacks a goto move off which to base other moves.


Porzingis' came to the NBA not as a go-to scorer but as a guy that had the ability to be a defensive game changer while having the potential to be a plus offensive player. There are some encouraging signs defensively, he moves well laterally for his size, and shows some ability to defend out on the perimeter.

That being said from what I saw he has a tendency to space out in space, giving guys open lanes to the rim. So the coaching staff is going to need to handle him carefully, and make sure that he doesn't develop the entitlement issues that Bargnani did.


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## GrandKenyon6

Nikoloz Tskitishvili the second.

But only because he's a Knick.


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## Ballscientist

in Porzingis' prime:

Who is the nba comparison? That is what we need to know.


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## GrandKenyon6

Tskitishvili.


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## jayk009

For now he's going to be Yi Jian Lin.....If he develops to his potential? A little bit of Dirk Nowitzki with a little bit ofAndre Kirilenko in him.


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## Da Grinch

chris bosh with a better jumpshot but less rebounding

kinda thin plus defender due to height, length and pretty good agility 

on offense mostly a face up guy with range out past the 3 point line 

the combination of his agility , 7'3 height , shooting ability and 38 inch vertical pretty much make his step back jumpshot his go to move in time

I don't believe he'll be a great one on one guy though

a mediocre rebounder.


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## MemphisX

AK47 is the closest comparison but he is like 6 inches taller, longer and maybe even more athletic. Plus he can shoot. 


Very unique prospect that will garner a lot of eyeballs.


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## R-Star

GrandKenyon6 said:


> Tskitishvili.


He's shown far more skill and unique size and athletic ability than Skita ever did. 

Elaborate on the similarities you see other than the lazy "both are Euro and white."


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## RollWithEm

Am I the only one who just wishes this guy would've gone to a franchise with a better history of developing young big men? I'm worried that the Knicks are going to squander a lot of talent with him the same way that the Pistons did with Darko, the Clippers did with Olowokandi, and the Bullets did with Pervis Ellison. I thought all of those guys would have been all-star level players with the right infrastructure.


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## Da Grinch

RollWithEm said:


> Am I the only one who just wishes this guy would've gone to a franchise with a better history of developing young big men? I'm worried that the Knicks are going to squander a lot of talent with him the same way that the Pistons did with Darko, the Clippers did with Olowokandi, and the Bullets did with Pervis Ellison. I thought all of those guys would have been all-star level players with the right infrastructure.


Ellison's talent wasn't squandered 

injuries derailed him.


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## GrandKenyon6

R-Star said:


> He's shown far more skill and unique size and athletic ability than Skita ever did.
> 
> Elaborate on the similarities you see other than the lazy "both are Euro and white."


He's a Knick. Surely that organization will ruin him.


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## JT

Da Grinch said:


> Ellison's talent wasn't squandered
> 
> injuries derailed him.


plus, Kandi was lazy, and Darko ended up as a kickboxer. these guys were never going to make it no matter where they went.


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## RollWithEm

JT said:


> plus, Kandi was lazy, and Darko ended up as a kickboxer. these guys were never going to make it no matter where they went.


I don't think that's true. Organizational weaknesses derailed each of those guys. Sure, they might not have ever been hall-of-famers, but I think they could all have been quite a bit better than they turned out to be.

Also, the training staff is certainly a potential organizational weakness. Just ask the Suns.


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## JT

RollWithEm said:


> I don't think that's true. Organizational weaknesses derailed each of those guys. Sure, they might not have ever been hall-of-famers, but I think they could all have been quite a bit better than they turned out to be.
> 
> Also, the training staff is certainly a potential organizational weakness. Just ask the Suns.


I remember Kandi from his T-Wolves days, not when he was drafted, so I read this: http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ba...ll-angry-at-michael-olowokandi?urn=nba,wp6868. seems accurate from how I remember him.

on Darko, he had every opportunity to succeed. he was drafted onto a successful Pistons team, and though he didn't get much playing time under Larry Brown, he had talented bigs around him he could've learned from, and therefore been able to use what he gleaned in whatever limited minutes he was given. he never did. then, after Brown was gone, full-time, he had the chance. he never did.

my view on players, is that excepting outstanding circumstances, those who want to get there, they will get there. these guys didn't want it, or weren't mentally equipped to go the distance. they did have the physical gifts though, you are right on this.


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## jayk009

I don't understand with Darko though...There was almost no immediate expectation put on him and he was allowed to develop slowly. Larry Brown is not the best coach to develop young talent but it was a winning culture and he didn't really have pressure to perform right away.

I would say with Darko it was just a matter of him not loving the game of basketball. He didn't put the work in to continue developing his skill set. 

It's crazy to think that he was considered a no brainer at the second pick and no one really second questioned the Pistons for taking him over Melo, Bosh, etc.


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## RollWithEm

jayk009 said:


> I don't understand with Darko though...There was almost no immediate expectation put on him and he was allowed to develop slowly. Larry Brown is not the best coach to develop young talent but it was a winning culture and he didn't really have pressure to perform right away.
> 
> I would say with Darko it was just a matter of him not loving the game of basketball. He didn't put the work in to continue developing his skill set.
> 
> It's crazy to think that he was considered a no brainer at the second pick and no one really second questioned the Pistons for taking him over Melo, Bosh, etc.


The Pistons did nothing of note to put Darko in a position to succeed. 

Just look at Dirk's situation with the Mavs. He was so frustrated with the way Don Nelson was using him and the way the organization was neglecting his development that he was extremely close to giving up on the NBA and going back to Germany. When Cuban bought the team, improved accommodations, beefed up the training staff, brought in an international consultant, hired Dirk's coach from Germany to come to Dallas with him, and talked Nellie out of his ludicrous Dirk at point-forward idea, Nowitzki's game was allowed to develop on a quicker timeline. Now we have a hall-of-fame talent instead of another what-could-have-been story.

I'm not trying to say Darko was ever going to be as good as we now know Dirk is, but try to look at the whole picture, here. There are 6 or 7 NBA franchises that are just better at developing young talent than the rest of the teams. The Knicks are not one of them right now. Maybe Phil can change that reality. Porzingis' growth will tell us a lot about that.


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## JT

Porzingis looks to me, like he has the drive internally to succeed. I do think Phil/Fisher will help nurture him along the path toward being a great basketball player, but his overall success won't be environmentally dependent. Some guys just get there. Take Jimmy Butler as the most recent example. How many saw him as a potential all-star coming out of college?


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## JT

It almost reads as if you wish to remove some level of culpability from the players themselves for ensuring their own progress & development.


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## jayk009

JT said:


> Porzingis looks to me, like he has the drive internally to succeed. I do think Phil/Fisher will help nurture him along the path toward being a great basketball player, but his overall success won't be environmentally dependent. Some guys just get there. Take Jimmy Butler as the most recent example. How many saw him as a potential all-star coming out of college?


I did.... with the benefit of hindsight


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## RollWithEm

JT said:


> It almost reads as if you wish to remove some level of culpability from the players themselves for ensuring their own progress & development.


I do. Not all, or even most... but some... yes. I think the bad organizations don't get nearly the blame they should for squandering talent.


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## Da Grinch

for the most part the only top pick I blame on the organization was Kwame brown , Jordan ruined his development ...when I saw him in summer league after he got drafted and he was pretty good ...but they killed his confidence and with that his game.

most of the time especially with the dleague available I put the onus on the player


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