# The 1st vs 4th and Jarrett Jack club



## Theberge43 (Nov 2, 2004)

> From the information that DraftExpress has gathered from sources close to the Raptors organization, the #1 spot in the draft indeed appears to be Andrea Bargnani’s to lose. Colangelo is infatuated with his phenomenal skill-set and is determined to lay the groundwork and make sure that this pick is not deemed a huge surprise like Charlie Villanueva was last year. The Raptors see Bargnani, like Charlie Villanueva, being able to play the 3, 4 and 5 spots in the NBA, with Chris Bosh manning the 4/5. The only question now is whether the Raptors will draft him at #1, or will attempt to trade down a few spots *(possibly to Portland for the #4 pick in a package with Chris Bosh’s good friend and ex-teammate Jarrett Jack)* to pick up a valuable asset along the way.


Link

Seems we are not the only ones that are thinking about that one.
I say we draft 1st a guy we would want and that Portland would love, wait to see who's drafted 2nd & 3rd and if our guy is there at 4th pull the trigger.

It all depends who BC wants, if he thinks Bargani could slip and if he like Aldridge ... draft Aldridge hope that Bargani slip to 4th and make the swap. Anyways interesting trade idea imo, and a very realistic one too.

And if you feel it's not enough, Portland has also the 30th & 31st pick in this draft ... so there is room to tweak the trade.


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## Slasher (Jul 11, 2003)

I have been a Jarret Jack fan since he entered the draft and Portland snatched him. The thing with Portland is that they have three young point guards who could all be had in the right package. I personally prefer Jack over Telfair and Blake, and the package of a number one pick overall and another player for Jack and the fourth just might do it to get it done.


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## billfindlay10 (Jan 24, 2003)

I am at work and every site but this one is filtered ( at leaste I can get one), can someone post Jack's rookie numbers, I know he played limited minutes, but I would like to see %'s and such....also what his listed size is. I think it was 6'3" but I am not sure. 

Thanks


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## Theberge43 (Nov 2, 2004)




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## billfindlay10 (Jan 24, 2003)

Theberge43 said:


>


Repped!

20 minutes a game for 79 was not bad....3 point fg% is a little low(not many attempts as well), but over 2-1 assist-turnover ratio.

I do like his size and overall he has the looks of a solid game. Can he be the long term solution as a starter?


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## Slasher (Jul 11, 2003)

billfindlay10 said:


> I do like his size and overall he has the looks of a solid game. Can he be the long term solution as a starter?


Hard to say, although I would rather have Jack than Telfair. I always thought that Jack was a better player than Telfair just because of his experience and exposure to the NCAA.

We should probably ask a Portland fan about his overall game. Any Blazers fans reading?


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## billfindlay10 (Jan 24, 2003)

Slasher said:


> Hard to say, although I would rather have Jack than Telfair. I always thought that Jack was a better player than Telfair just because of his experience and exposure to the NCAA.
> 
> We should probably ask a Portland fan about his overall game. Any Blazers fans reading?


As a team leader I would look at Jack instead of Telfair....also I think he would take on a role better than Telfair....but you are right it would be nice to hear from some Portland fans.


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## icehawk (May 30, 2003)

I don't think Jack would be enough to move down in the draft. I'm sure other teams (read: Chicago and Atlanta) can come up with better packages. We need a starting PG, not another young back-up. Jack isn't an upgrade from Calderon, either.


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## billfindlay10 (Jan 24, 2003)

That is the question...is Jack a solid starter? ^ you seem to think no....I like Calderon's style...but is he a legit starter?


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## changv10 (Apr 25, 2005)

From what I see in Jarrett Jack, I think he will be at the very least a solid point guard in the nba. When Portland played against us, he kept the games close by driving to the basket hard, getting fouled and scoring on numerous occassions. He has Mike James like penetration skills ... certainly not the same shooter, but can knock down the open J. He's got good size and should be able to develop a 3pt shot into his arsenal. 

I'd definitely look hard into trading #1 for #4 plus Jack ... plus an option for us to swap first rounders in 2007 (if they really want Aldridge that bad). The 2007 picks should be very valuable. You know that 1 of Aldridge/Tyrus Thomas/Bargani/Roy are available at #4 ... I don't think you can go wrong with that group. 

i'm sold with the idea of getting Jack ... i think he's a definite up-and-coming solid starting PG of the future.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

Telfair and Blake is a decent guard rotation for Portland, I don't think they would be so opposed to dealing Jack for the right player.

We could probably still land Bargnani or another good prospect at four.

Like the Zaza trade, not the worst trade I can think up.


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## TRON (Feb 29, 2004)

Portland and Chicago have the most need for Aldridge, but I'm slowly losing interest in aquiring another young player to be our floor general

The combination of Aldridge and a vet PG signed through free agency seem like a better option than ending up with Bargnani and Jack/Duhon, jmo.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

Theberge43 said:


> Link
> 
> Seems we are not the only ones that are thinking about that one.
> I say we draft 1st a guy we would want and that Portland would love, wait to see who's drafted 2nd & 3rd and if our guy is there at 4th pull the trigger.
> ...



You don't need to wait. No one will take Bargnani if he continues the holdout talk. No-one will chance a wasted top 5 pick.

I definitely do it and see if we can throw in some trash too.


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## billfindlay10 (Jan 24, 2003)

Can some one post Jose Calderon's rookie numbers as well.....I am still at work and can't access them.

Thanks


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

I like it. Gay, Morrison, or Bargnani at #4 and Jack. Jack fits with the character and chemistry we're trying to create and he and Calderon will be a solid PG rotation, down the line anyway. 

Portland should want Aldridge as much as anyone. They need a strong PF/C more than any other position. He can play next to Theo, next to Zach (if he's still around), whatever.


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## mo76 (Jun 13, 2003)

TRON said:


> Portland and Chicago have the most need for Aldridge, but I'm slowly losing interest in aquiring another young player to be our floor general
> 
> The combination of Aldridge and a vet PG signed through free agency seem like a better option than ending up with Bargnani and Jack/Duhon, jmo.



:cheers:

We could just draft dee brown in the second round. Dont throw away 1st overall pick for jared jack. Hes a good player but not one of a kind.


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## chocolove (Apr 4, 2006)

Will Blalock has been playing well in some workouts too http://nbadraft.net/profiles/willblalock.asp 
could be a potential second round pick for the raptors


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## icehawk (May 30, 2003)

mo76 said:


> :cheers:
> 
> We could just draft dee brown in the second round. Dont throw away 1st overall pick for jared jack. Hes a good player but not one of a kind.


That's what I'm saying. Is Jack really better than Calderon? No. Then why would we want to acquire another backup PG?


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

icehawk said:


> That's what I'm saying. Is Jack really better than Calderon? No. Then why would we want to acquire another backup PG?


Because we like to use our best assets to draft for need rather than talent...

At first I was akin to drafting Bargnani first, Aldridge second. Then some people convinced me that the raptors were only a couple of pieces away from truly contending. I'm all _JACKED_ up baby!!!...


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## frank_white (Apr 20, 2005)

icehawk said:


> That's what I'm saying. Is Jack really better than Calderon?


Yes. He has better leadership skills and more upside, and is the prototypical floor general that we lack. I see him being a sam cassell/alvin williams type of point guard in a year or two. 

I do this trade in a second if bagnarni the guy we we want to draft anyway, and if it's guarnteed he'll be there at 4. 

Follow this up with a trade for Mags, and we actually have a somewhat competive team, with TONS of upside:

Jack/Jose/Roko
Mo
Charlie V/Graham
Bosh/Bags
Mags


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## Dee-Zy (Jan 12, 2006)

frank_white said:


> Yes. He has better leadership skills and more upside, and is the prototypical floor general that we lack. I see him being a sam cassell/alvin williams type of point guard in a year or two.
> 
> I do this trade in a second if bagnarni the guy we we want to draft anyway, and if it's guarnteed he'll be there at 4.
> 
> ...



I have to admit, that does sound nice. We can always have a 2nd rounder fill up the 2.


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## icehawk (May 30, 2003)

frank_white said:


> Yes. He has better leadership skills and more upside, and is the prototypical floor general that we lack. I see him being a sam cassell/alvin williams type of point guard in a year or two.
> 
> I do this trade in a second if bagnarni the guy we we want to draft anyway, and if it's guarnteed he'll be there at 4.
> 
> ...


Comparing Jack to Sam Cassell must be some kind of joke. Alvin Williams was one of the furthest things from a 'prototypical floor general'. Jack was the 22nd pick of last year's draft and hasn't done anything to improve his stock. He'll be a career roleplayer at best.

Edit: For your Mags trade, how do you expect to get Magloire without trading anything? They sure won't want Mike James, Eric Williams, Matt Bonner, etc.


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## tobybennett (Jun 12, 2003)

icehawk said:


> I don't think Jack would be enough to move down in the draft. I'm sure other teams (read: Chicago and Atlanta) can come up with better packages. We need a starting PG, not another young back-up. Jack isn't an upgrade from Calderon, either.


Trust me, Jack is a big upgrade from Calderon. Jack is a way better all-around player. I don't know why Portland would want to move up though, it sounds like they want to brandon roy so it doesn't make much sense.


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## frank_white (Apr 20, 2005)

icehawk said:


> Comparing Jack to Sam Cassell must be some kind of joke. Alvin Williams was one of the furthest things from a 'prototypical floor general'. Jack was the 22nd pick of last year's draft and hasn't done anything to improve his stock. He'll be a career roleplayer at best.
> 
> Edit: For your Mags trade, how do you expect to get Magloire without trading anything? They sure won't want Mike James, Eric Williams, Matt Bonner, etc.


I should have been more clear and said a cross between Cassell and Alvin. 

And no, it wasn't a joke my friend. He may be a bit slower and not quite as offensively gifted, but Jack has the same intensity, competiveness and ability to lead as Cassell. He also has a very Cassel-like understanding for the game and basketball IQ. I'm not saying he's on the same level now, but he certainly has the tools to have a similar impact on a team in the near future. Anyone who says otherwise clearly didn't watch any of his games at G-Tech or watch him take over Telfair's starting job last year.


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## billfindlay10 (Jan 24, 2003)

frank_white said:


> I should have been more clear and said a cross between Cassell and Alvin.
> 
> And no, it wasn't a joke my friend. He may be a bit slower and not quite as offensively gifted, but Jack has the same intensity, competiveness and ability to lead as Cassell. He also has a very Cassel-like understanding for the game and basketball IQ. I'm not saying he's on the same level now, but he certainly has the tools to have a similar impact on a team in the near future. Anyone who says otherwise clearly didn't watch any of his games at G-Tech or watch him take over Telfair's starting job last year.


Jack took over the Starting point guard spot? Pretty sure Blake got the nod there.


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## mo76 (Jun 13, 2003)

frank_white said:


> I should have been more clear and said a cross between Cassell and Alvin.
> 
> And no, it wasn't a joke my friend. He may be a bit slower and not quite as offensively gifted, but Jack has the same intensity, competiveness and ability to lead as Cassell. He also has a very Cassel-like understanding for the game and basketball IQ. I'm not saying he's on the same level now, but he certainly has the tools to have a similar impact on a team in the near future. Anyone who says otherwise clearly didn't watch any of his games at G-Tech or watch him take over Telfair's starting job last year.


Cassel can shoot, jack cant. Actually, i see no basis for this comparison other than that all three players have similar physical stature.


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## mo76 (Jun 13, 2003)

If the raps could some how get shannon brown that would be awsome. Heard on the nets board that he is going to declare . The nets gm says he has an NBA position, swingman. I think this guy is going to be the steal of this years draft, like gilbert arenas.


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

mo76 said:


> :cheers:
> 
> We could just draft dee brown in the second round. Dont throw away 1st overall pick for jared jack. Hes a good player but not one of a kind.


 No doubt. This may be a weak draft but we still have the #1 pick... I'm not expecting an all star calber player, but we'd need more than just Jack plus 3 picks lower, to move.


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## ATM (Jun 23, 2003)

frank_white said:


> Yes. He has better leadership skills and more upside, and is the prototypical floor general that we lack. I see him being a sam cassell/alvin williams type of point guard in a year or two.
> 
> I do this trade in a second if bagnarni the guy we we want to draft anyway, and if it's guarnteed he'll be there at 4.
> 
> ...


If we do draft Bargnani, I really hope "Bags" doesn't catch on as his nickname.


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## Dee-Zy (Jan 12, 2006)

ATM said:


> If we do draft Bargnani, I really hope "Bags" doesn't catch on as his nickname.




nan, "Barni" will


and we have those purple dinosaure uniforms, great!


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## icehawk (May 30, 2003)

billfindlay10 said:


> Jack took over the Starting point guard spot? Pretty sure Blake got the nod there.


He did. The fact that Blake was chosen over Telfair and Jack sends a strong message, no?


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## rebelsun (Nov 25, 2003)

Jack is a career backup combo guard.


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## mo76 (Jun 13, 2003)

It doesnt make much sense but i wish the raptors could get shannon brown with a late first round pick. From what i hear hes a pure 2 guard. Hes 6'3 but his long arms and athletisism allow him to play like hes 6'6. Hes plays for michigan state so going to TO wouldnt be that much of an adjustment. The people on the nets forum say hes the ultimate transition player.


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## frank_white (Apr 20, 2005)

mo76 said:


> Cassel can shoot, jack cant. Actually, i see no basis for this comparison other than that all three players have similar physical stature.


Again, I'm not saying Jack plays offense like Cassell (he's more like Alvin Williams on offense). I'm saying he has the same leadership abilities and intangible knack for the game. To me that is undeniable. 

And the bottom line for me is: Jack + Bargnarni > Aldridge. Why not pick up a team need and still draft the guy we want? Jack is a decent player, and he would immediately add quality depth and a good, competitive attitude if nothing else.


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## mo76 (Jun 13, 2003)

frank_white said:


> Again, I'm not saying Jack plays offense like Cassell (he's more like Alvin Williams on offense). I'm saying he has the same leadership abilities and intangible knack for the game. To me that is undeniable.
> 
> And the bottom line for me is: Jack + Bargnarni > Aldridge. Why not pick up a team need and still draft the guy we want? Jack is a decent player, and he would immediately add quality depth and a good, competitive attitude if nothing else.


#1 the bulls would likely take bargani with the second pick
#2 its debatable whether or not bargani is the player we want anyway
#3 there are probably better PGs we could get with are second round pick than bosh's buddy (which is the only reason people are suggesting this lame *** trade ) jack


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## frank_white (Apr 20, 2005)

mo76 said:


> #1 the bulls would likely take bargani with the second pick
> #2 its debatable whether or not bargani is the player we want anyway
> #3 there are probably better PGs we could get with are second round pick than bosh's buddy (which is the only reason people are suggesting this lame *** trade ) jack


I'm not just suggesting it because he's bosh his buddy. He's got game.

Beats drafting shannon brown, anyway. The only reason people .... err, you are suggesting it is because Jersey fans -- highly qualified draft experts that they are -- are saying he's "the ultimate transition player".


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## mo76 (Jun 13, 2003)

frank_white said:


> I'm not just suggesting it because he's bosh his buddy. He's got game.
> 
> Beats drafting shannon brown, anyway. The only reason people .... err, you are suggesting it is because Jersey fans -- highly qualified draft experts that they are -- are saying he's "the ultimate transition player".


Jared jack is average to below average in every facet of his game. Hes an average NBA player. Now look at the players collangelo likes. This trade might look good on paper and it does fill an immediate need for the raptors but it isnt going to happen.


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## frank_white (Apr 20, 2005)

mo76 said:


> Jared jack is average to below average in every facet of his game. Hes an average NBA player. Now look at the players collangelo likes. This trade might look good on paper and it does fill an immediate need for the raptors but it isnt going to happen.


We'll have to agree to disagree then. You can agrue that Jack may have average talent, but you cannot say he has below average talent (he's a bit better than jose and, like I said, he managed to steal telfair's job in his rookie season). He's not a superstar, but he's the type of player/character winning teams tend to have. Sometimes building a solid bench is wiser than just throwing together overpriced allstars (see New York)

We'll come back to this thread in two years, and then you guys will know what I'm saying. Jack is a ballsy player.


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## mo76 (Jun 13, 2003)

frank_white said:


> We'll have to agree to disagree then. You can agrue that Jack may have average talent, but you cannot say he has below average talent (he's a bit better than jose and, like I said, he managed to steal telfair's job in his rookie season). He's not a superstar, but he's the type of player/character winning teams tend to have. Sometimes building a solid bench is wiser than just throwing together overpriced allstars (see New York)
> 
> We'll come back to this thread in two years, and then you guys will know what I'm saying. *Jack is a ballsy player.*


ill agree with you there, but what has he done in the pros?


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## frank_white (Apr 20, 2005)

mo76 said:


> ill agree with you there, but what has he done in the pros?


he's on a terrible team and he's only played one season, but he already managed to steal telfair's job and emerge as a team leader


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## mo76 (Jun 13, 2003)

frank_white said:


> he's on a terrible team and he's only played one season, but he already managed to steal telfair's job and emerge as a team leader



go post #1 for #4 and telfair on the blazers board and see what happens. You cant tell me the pacers value jack more than telfair.


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## frank_white (Apr 20, 2005)

Telfair has more upside and therefore more longterm value to the blazers. But that doesn't diminish the fact that jack is a solid point guard. It just shows that he's further along in his game at this point and can contribute now.


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

frank_white said:


> Telfair has more upside and therefore more longterm value to the blazers. But that doesn't diminish the fact that jack is a solid point guard. *It just shows that he's further along in his game at this point.*


:|, well obviously...


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

frank_white said:


> Telfair has more upside and therefore more longterm value to the blazers. But that doesn't diminish the fact that jack is a solid point guard. It just shows that he's further along in his game at this point and can contribute now.


 Further along or not, he's still not starter material. If I make that trade I'm going for Telfair, because if we're not getting an instant starter, we'd better get the most value. And if Portland loves Bassy too much, then they can just keep the 4th pick and get the table scraps from the top picks.


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## frank_white (Apr 20, 2005)

I'll take jack over telfair. upside is overrated. webster had upside. outlaw had upside. miles had upside. so did oneal, of course. but you are always playing russian roulette when it comes to "upside". which is why the blazers are a losing team today. 

Winning teams (like Indy and Detroit) not only have one or two star players, they also have solid and deep benches. Adding players like Jack, for virtually nothing, is a move in that direction. 

As we all know, there isn't much difference between 1 and 4 in this draft. As long as we don't trade out of the top 5, anything we get back is gravy IMO. 

It's cool if you want to disagree. Just don't be mad at me when I bump this thread a year from now.


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

frank_white said:


> I'll take jack over telfair. upside is overrated. webster had upside. outlaw had upside. miles had upside. so did oneal, of course. but you are always playing russian roulette when it comes to "upside". which is why the blazers are a losing team today.
> 
> Winning teams (like Indy and Detroit) not only have one or two star players, they also have solid and deep benches. Adding players like Jack, for virtually nothing, is a move in that direction.
> 
> ...


 The thing is though, that Telfair has more upside than Jack, more experience than Jack, and has put up better numbers than Jack too, even comparing their rookie years. Either way we go, we're not getting a starter, so why get the dude who might help us a little bit more now - if that - over the dude who might help us make a championship run a down the road?

Winning teams have solid benches to go WITH their star players. We have one all star right now, Villy could become a star, but outside of that we barely even have decent role players! You need the star players to surround them with role players and a solid bench. Telfair has star potential, he's future starter material, and I'm not sure if I can say the same about Jack.


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## mo76 (Jun 13, 2003)

frank_white said:


> I'll take jack over telfair. *upside is overrated*. webster had upside. outlaw had upside. miles had upside. so did oneal, of course. but you are always playing russian roulette when it comes to "upside". which is why the blazers are a losing team today.
> 
> Winning teams (like Indy and Detroit) not only have one or two star players, they also have solid and deep benches. Adding players like Jack, for virtually nothing, is a move in that direction.
> 
> ...


And you want to draft bargani? (Correct me if im wrong)


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## frank_white (Apr 20, 2005)

mo76 said:


> And you want to draft bargani? (Correct me if im wrong)


I actually prefer Aldridge. But if Bargnarni is the player BC wants, and if he can make a pre-arranged deal to pick LA and move him to Portland for Bargnarni and Jack, I can't see why we wouldn't do it. Jack is a decent pick-up. I think you guys are still thinking we are going to hit some kind of home-run with or #1 pick, or that we will be able to get an allstar player with our pick -- that's not going to happen. I'm taking a more realistic approach to building a team and getting value with our pick.


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## chromekilla (Aug 21, 2005)

Jack is a centerpeice of our franchise he won't be traded. for what the ny daily news is saying the blazers would get in picks it would be crazy to trade .They are saying the blazers would trade number 4 and one of our 07 picks.We get number one pick in a weak draft .Im perfectly fine with number 4.


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## icehawk (May 30, 2003)

chromekilla said:


> Jack is a centerpeice of our franchise he won't be traded. for what the ny daily news is saying the blazers would get in picks it would be crazy to trade .They are saying the blazers would trade number 4 and one of our 07 picks.We get number one pick in a weak draft .Im perfectly fine with number 4.


Their reasoning: Portland wants Adam Morrison and Charlotte is surely going to pick him up before the 4th pick.


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## chromekilla (Aug 21, 2005)

Adam morrison and 3 spots isint worth jack.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

2.8 assists in 20 minutes a game. Yawn.

Jack was never a great playmaker at GTech, and it extended to the NBA.


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## no_free_baskets (Jan 4, 2006)

for those judging jack on his rookie yr, hasnt it become known that jack was actually playing through a serious injury all yr long?

in lieu of that, i dont think its fair to judge jack's rookie season given his injury...


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