# K-Mart to Phoenix for the Max?



## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

I posted this on the Suns board as well.

Actually I love the idea as much as any other. 

Bring Martin to Phoenix for a visit and sell him on that team. Shouldn't be too hard considering there are only some options like Denver, Utah and Atlanta to compete with. 

The Nets would have 2 choices. Let Martin walk for nothing ( in that case we would have like 5-6M$ caproom left after we sign our #7 pick say Ben Gordon). 

Divac 4M$, Vujanic 1-2M$.

Amare/Divac/Voshkul 
Martin/Lampe 
Marion/Zarko
Johnson/Jacobsen 
Gordon/Barbosa/Vujanic 

IR: Eisley 

Or take whatever sign and trade Phoenix is willing to offer that both sides can agree on. 

The Pistons won the championship with a similiar lineup.
In fact our starters might be better and if we could get Divac and another decent FA with the roughly 5-6M$ we would have left our bench would be pretty good as well especially if our young guys keep getting better. Too bad D'Antoni has a long way to even compare to the greatness of Larry Brown.

At least that is one heck of a fast and exciting team.

It is a lot more realistic than the Kobe scenarios anyway. If the Nets really won't match max offers to Martin I think we can definately get him for the max if we want to.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

Amare definitely can't play the center position effectively. He's undersized to play power forward as it is, no way he plays center in the Western Conference, or the Eastern Conference for that matter, effectively for an entire season.


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

Amare is 6'10 how is that undersized at PF?

He already played center a lot this season and last season because the Suns tend to go small and play Amare as center and Marion at PF.
Take away Shaq and Yao.. Amare can definately guard Nesterovic, Kaman, Wright, Gasol, Swift, Camby, Miller or whatever other center is still left in the West.

Shaq is probably not going to be in the West when the Lakers trade him. I doubt they want to meet him 4 times a year. And if they don't trade Shaq I would assume that Kobe goes so Phoenix would probably not look at Kenyon.

Amare has already proved he can defend the 5 and he even did a decent job on Yao. Especially in the first game he had like 4 blocks against Yao alone.

And against Yao the Suns could probably play big since Houston isn't a running team with Divac/Amare/Martin/Marion/Johnson. Martin can guard the 3. Marion can guard the 2 and JJ can guard the 1 decently enough especially if the Rockets trade Francis and Mobley they will probably not have a PG who could exploit that lineup.

Amare is 6'10 and Kenyon is also 6'10 according to pre-draft measurements from 2000.
Rasheed is 6'11 and Ben Wallace maybe 6'8 they are a nice combo too.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> Amare is 6'10 how is that undersized at PF?
> 
> He already played center a lot this season because the Suns tend to go small and play Amare as center and Marion at PF.
> ...


Amare may be able to play center for short periods of time, but not as a starting center. He can't bang down low with the big centers in the league for 40 minutes a night.


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

He gets double teamed all night. He is already banging with 2 or 3 guys down low for 40 minutes a night offensively

On top of it except for Shaq there is not one banger down low who is a big scoring threat.

Also it would be interessting if other teams wouldn't be forced to play a smaller center anyway because a Potapenko or Jake Tsakalidis is definately too slow to defend Amare or Kenyon.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> He gets double teamed all night. He is already banging with 2 or 3 guys down low for 40 minutes a night offensively
> 
> On top of it except for Shaq there is not one banger down low who is a big scoring threat.
> ...


A center with decent size would eat up Amare on the glass, the fact is he's not a very good rebounder, and that weakness would be exploited by the big centers in the league. Sure, the highlight films and stat sheets would look nice, but that team would be back in the lottery with one of the worst records in the league again, because their rebounding just wouldn't cut it, and Amare would get exposed.


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## QRICH (Feb 2, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> Amare is 6'10 how is that undersized at PF?


Actually 6'8 1/2. 9'0" reach, not undersized, but not big either.


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## Coatesvillain (Jul 17, 2002)

The huge difference between the Ben Wallace/Rasheed Wallace is that Rasheed was versatile enough to go out and be an outside player opening up the paint for Ben to get put backs. And neither player was depending on carrying the bulk of the offense, which was good for both of them.

With Amare/Kenyon they play similar brands of basketball, neither one of them will be able to go out and regularly hit the outside jumper. It's not good to have that much congestion in the lane. I think having both of them on the same team, would actually take away from each individuals effectiveness.

Making this move, would also put the Suns in pretty much the same predicament they were at the beginning of last season in a year or two, where they'd have Marion, Martin, and Stoudemire on max salaries. And who knows how much they'll give Joe Johnson when it's time to give him an extension.


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## QRICH (Feb 2, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> 
> Amare is 6'10 and Kenyon is also 6'10 according to pre-draft measurements from 2000.
> Rasheed is 6'11 and Ben Wallace maybe 6'8 they are a nice combo too.


Do you have Kenyons measurements?


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Lakota_Blazer</b>!
> 
> 
> Actually 6'8 1/2. 9'0" reach, not undersized, but not big either.


That is without shoes. And he has a 9' 1/2" standing reach and a 7'1 3/4 wingspan.

The 2 Wallaces are combined definately shorter than Amare and Martin.

Martin
http://www.thehrr.com/nba/draft2000/chicago2.PDF

I am not sure how accurate they are because if then Amare must have grown an inch because just yesterday I watched a Nets-Suns games from late this season I had on DVD and Amare definately looked to have an inch on Kenyon.


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>PhillyPhanatic</b>!
> The huge difference between the Ben Wallace/Rasheed Wallace is that Rasheed was versatile enough to go out and be an outside player opening up the paint for Ben to get put backs. And neither player was depending on carrying the bulk of the offense, which was good for both of them.
> 
> With Amare/Kenyon they play similar brands of basketball, neither one of them will be able to go out and regularly hit the outside jumper. It's not good to have that much congestion in the lane. I think having both of them on the same team, would actually take away from each individuals effectiveness.
> ...


Amare is already hitting the midrange jumpers at a regular rate. Also Amare unlike the 2 Wallaces is a much better low-post scorer than either of them.
I doubt teams would like to leave Martin open to double Amare because even if he can't shoot so well he is athletic enough to get to the rim if they don't cover him.

Also the Suns wouldn't be in the same situation. This year they had Marbury, Marion, Penny and Googs and the problem was that they were not winning and that Penny and Googs because of injuries weren't even worth 10% of the money they made.


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## QRICH (Feb 2, 2004)

Can you tell me what his measurements are? For some reason my computer can't upload pdf files.


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

6'8 3/4" without shoes
6'10 in shoes
6'11 1/2 wingspan
9'1 standing reach
8'10 1/2 standing reach with 2 hands


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## Coatesvillain (Jul 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> Amare is already hitting the midrange jumpers at a regular rate. Also Amare unlike the 2 Wallaces is a much better low-post scorer than either of them.


See, it's things like this that get people upset at you. If I said, yeah Amare's only weakness is he can't hit the shot from 92 feet, it wouldn't be far fetched to hear you say "He's been hitting it from 92 feet consistently." I'll agree that his midrange game has improved a lot in comparison to his rookie year, but he's nowhere near the shooter Rasheed Wallace is.

Also, I'd have to say when it comes to low-post offense, I think Amare is a lot more aggressive than the Wallaces in going after his points (that goes without saying).. but Rasheed is a superior low-post player, which really doesn't mean anything since he's so reluctant to post anyone up.



> I doubt teams would like to leave Martin open to double Amare because even if he can't shoot so well he is athletic enough to get to the rim if they don't cover him.


Thing is, if Martin's going to attack the rim, and Amare is working out of the low-post where he's doubled, what would stop Kenyon's man from rotating out as he goes for the rim and stop his penetration?



> Also the Suns wouldn't be in the same situation. This year they had Marbury, Marion, Penny and Googs and the problem was that they were not winning and that Penny and Googs because of injuries weren't even worth 10% of the money they made.


While not exactly the same, they'd have a handful of players eating up the majority of the cap. Three players making max money is hard to handle for a lot of teams, and in many situations it paints them into a corner. Also, frankly I don't think Kenyon Martin is worth the max money, if Phoenix was smart (and I think they are) they won't go through with this. They need players to compliment what they have.


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## cpawfan (Jun 20, 2004)

Because of Amare's youth and frame, he could put on more size and effectively play the 5 spot.

Also, Kenyon could take the other team's better player between the 4 & 5 or Kenyon can even guard the 3 to provide a break to Marion.

Because of the CBA, the new "max" contracts are less than they used to be, plus PHX would be paying less for Kenyon then they would for Marion or eventually Amare because it would be a contract of ~6/82 (like what Brand got last year). 

Actually, PHX could save themselves some money in a few years by doing the same thing with Amare and just match the best offer he gets. However, they probably won't because Amare could just sign a 1 year offer to become a UFA the next year.


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## deannahum (Aug 7, 2003)

The hole K-mart deal sounds bad because it makes the Suns real small and keeps Amare out of his true position, you cant say Amare is a center, he may be a good shot blocker and has some great, quick athletic moves down-low but he can't do the center job of boxing out, defence on big guys (and i am not only talking about Shaq or/and Yao i am talking about guys like Rasho, Nazr, Dalembert, Nowitki who's playing center as well).

I think that if you want to spend money you better do it on a point guard or on a true center. My top contedors anyway for the free agency are Steve Nash, Mehmo Okur, Vlade Divac, Brent Barry, Marcus Camby, Shammond Williams and Manu Ginobili.
(Plus, how about Eric Dampier ? is he free or what ?)



But if you got a superstar like Kobe open why dont give it a try ?


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>PhillyPhanatic</b>!
> 
> 
> Thing is, if Martin's going to attack the rim, and Amare is working out of the low-post where he's doubled, what would stop Kenyon's man from rotating out as he goes for the rim and stop his penetration?



Marion rarely attacks the rim in the halfcourt. Marion is midrange shooter and 3pt shooter for this team.


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## Coatesvillain (Jul 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> Marion rarely attacks the rim in the halfcourt. Marion is midrange shooter and 3pt shooter for this team.


I said Martin, not Marion. But talking about Marion, he should attack the rim more, when he does that not many players can stop him.


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## deannahum (Aug 7, 2003)

Marion has great qucikness and very quick first step and he can beat many players off the dribble.. he should do it more i agree he can add more power and maybe a little crossover to it and he can be a unstopable... plus he does that and stops for short j's... with his jumping abilty he should go to the hole and can score a lot more of points !

Man when i think about it Suns can *really* rise next season ! just must make the right moves carfully and they can be awsome !


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## Captain Obvious (Jun 15, 2003)

Amare is not a center no matter what you say BigAmare. This is a horrible plan, and I'm sure there are much better plans out there for the Suns.


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

Amare is big enough to play center in the league. 

Some of the things people say are silly. It is like when I hear people say Telfair is too small to play PG but 6'1" David Wesley has been play *shooting guard* in the league for the last 3-4 years.


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## deannahum (Aug 7, 2003)

who said telfair is small ?

and any guy who can shoot above 40 precent three pointers can play shooting guard. if you got the speed, the athletic abilty and you can shoot the basketball you can even play shooting guard at 7 foot (look at J-Bend)...


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