# Cavs Trade with Celtics



## tpb2

Well, they got rid of Davis, finally. 

Ricky Davis, Chris Mihm, Yogi Stewart 

for

Tony Battie, Eric Williams, Kedrick Brown



comments


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## TyGuy

Terrible trade, I made a post on my topic about this.


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## Dragnsmke1

Im getting sick and tired of adjusting my Espn roster...:upset:


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## rebelsun

Yikes, talentwise it looks like the Celts got a steal, but the Cavs really needed to move Ricky and his contract. I really wonder if this is really the most that the Cavs could have gotten for those guys.


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## Nevus

They're going to miss Chris Mihm, that guy was all right...

On the plus side for the Cavs, Eric Williams is an underrated guy who will be good for them.

Ricky Davis a Celtic? That's going to be weird at first... Ricky Davis and Paul Pierce? I've got to say I'll be looking forward to seeing how those two play together. Could be a disaster, or it could be great.


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## Starbury03

Ricky didnt have a bad contract Williams has a worse one.


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## rebelsun

> Originally posted by <b>Nevus</b>!
> Ricky Davis a Celtic? That's going to be weird at first... Ricky Davis and Paul Pierce? I've got to say I'll be looking forward to seeing how those two play together. Could be a disaster, or it could be great.


Well said. I think the outcome of this will be very black or white for the Celtics.


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## walkon4

*YEAH*

Yes!!!

We now have a second scoring option!!!!!


I do miss Eric and Tony though.


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## Nevus

> Yes!!!
> 
> We now have a second scoring option!!!!!
> 
> 
> I do miss Eric and Tony though.


Welcome to Rickyworld... there will be some games where you are saying Yes!!! but there will also be games where you find yourself saying Noooo!!! No you stupid Ricky! 

Ricky's your second scoring option, and he'll want to be your first, third, and maybe fourth too


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## walkon4

*well*



> Originally posted by <b>Nevus</b>!
> 
> 
> Welcome to Rickyworld... there will be some games where you are saying Yes!!! but there will also be games where you find yourself saying Noooo!!! No you stupid Ricky!
> 
> Ricky's your second scoring option, and he'll want to be your first, third, and maybe fourth too


If he goes in with that attitude, you can say goodbye.

I don't like this alittle bit, for the fact that the Celtics could be stuck with him. 

What happens if he is just a disaster and a cancer. Then nobody will want him, and he will be stuck here.

Thats the only worry.


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## ToddMacCulloch11

> Originally posted by <b>Starbury03</b>!
> Ricky didnt have a bad contract Williams has a worse one.


I'm pretty sure williams is off the books after this year...


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## Knicks Junkie

The biggest winners of the trade are Ricky Davis and Paul Pierce. In the Boston system, Davis is going to get the green light to let loose and play his game. And Paul Pierce will not play with a hunchback anymore from completely carrying the team on his back.


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## futuristxen

> Originally posted by <b>tpb2</b>!
> Well, they got rid of Davis, finally.
> 
> Ricky Davis, Chris Mihm, Yogi Stewart
> 
> for
> 
> Tony Battie, Eric Williams, Kedrick Brown
> 
> 
> 
> comments


I'm sorry. But I like this trade. For the Cavs. Ricky Davis is addition by subtraction. Yogi Stewart was also a problem child. The only guy they will miss is Chris Mihm. But Tony Battie will be a terrific replacement, especially with Diop out right now(I don't think Cleveland is done dealing...by a long shot). Eric Williams and Kedrick Brown give them two athletic, defensive wings to put out there with Lebron.

I think the Cavs are looking for less "talent" and more guys with basketball IQ who know how to win. Lebron is all the talent you need if you surround him with the right role players. And I think that's what the Cavs are doing.

Look at the last game. Lebron was clearly carrying the scoring load. And when he's doing that there's no place for Ricky Davis. Davis was just getting some assists, being confused, and getting less than 10 points. I'm sure Eric Williams can fill that role better.

As for the Celts. Why'd you trade Antoine Walker again? Davis has worse shot selection than Toine. This could be very interesting. It's Ricky's last chance, I think. If he doesn't figure things out in Boston, he'll never figure them out, and he'll end up like Isiah Rider.


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## Damian Necronamous

> Originally posted by <b>Starbury03</b>!
> Ricky didnt have a bad contract Williams has a worse one.


But Williams is a good veteran role player who doesn't demand the ball.


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## bl611

Goodbye Ricky!!! He's a talent, but he'll hurt your team more then help

Is Silas going to name Lebron a captain now?


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## tpb2

> Lebron is all the talent you need if you surround him with the right role players. And I think that's what the Cavs are doing.


I dont know if this is true now (jordan even had pippen, but we might get that later), but I really dont mind the trade. Get some players that have won some pro games in here. Like you said, looking at the last game, it was evident Davis needed to go. He was hurting the team more than helping it. It would be cool if we made another move. 



I keep forgetting about Wags........and what he could turn out to be


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## Lurch

> Originally posted by <b>bl611</b>!
> Goodbye Ricky!!! He's a talent, but he'll hurt your team more then help


I agree, Davis is very over-rated. Davis is a massive liability on defense, and offensivly he is very selfish and a turnover machine.


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## Mongolmike

*Re: Re: Cavs Trade with Celtics*



> Originally posted by <b>futuristxen</b>!
> 
> 
> I'm sorry. But I like this trade. For the Cavs. Ricky Davis is addition by subtraction. Yogi Stewart was also a problem child. The only guy they will miss is Chris Mihm. But Tony Battie will be a terrific replacement, especially with Diop out right now(I don't think Cleveland is done dealing...by a long shot). Eric Williams and Kedrick Brown give them two athletic, defensive wings to put out there with Lebron.
> 
> I think the Cavs are looking for less "talent" and more guys with basketball IQ who know how to win. Lebron is all the talent you need if you surround him with the right role players. And I think that's what the Cavs are doing.
> 
> Look at the last game. Lebron was clearly carrying the scoring load. And when he's doing that there's no place for Ricky Davis. Davis was just getting some assists, being confused, and getting less than 10 points. I'm sure Eric Williams can fill that role better.
> 
> As for the Celts. Why'd you trade Antoine Walker again? Davis has worse shot selection than Toine. This could be very interesting. It's Ricky's last chance, I think. If he doesn't figure things out in Boston, he'll never figure them out, and he'll end up like Isiah Rider.


I agree 1000%. I liked Ricky, but I don't really miss him already. Bring us some people who can play team ball and defense! And yes Celtic-fans... Ricky will be your 1st, 2nd, and 3rd scoring option....lol.


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## Chef

I love this trade for the cavs!!

They get rid of Davis and get another athletic forward who I think is improving is game: Kedrick Brown... and good player in Williams

We will see how Davis fits with Pierce... The Celts at least got Mihm, who is more than a decent post player...


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## Scinos

Hmm, looking at the players involved...

Stats.
Williams: 11.6 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 1.2 apg.
Battie: 5.9 ppg, 5.1 rpg, 0.9 apg.
Brown: 5.2 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 1.2 apg.

vs.

Davis: 15.3 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 5.0 apg.
Mihm: 6.9 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 0.5 apg.
Stewart: 1.0 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 0 apg.

In terms of offense, the Celtics are the winners. Stewart is a scrub, but Davis and Mihm produce more than Williams, Brown and Battie. Although, Cleveland is getting better defensive players, so some of the benefit they will be getting won't show up in individual stats.

In terms of salaries, the winners are Cleveland. Davis is going to earn around $30 Mill for the next 4 seasons. Williams' contract is a similar size to Ricky's, but it expires at the end of this season, so the Cavs will have more cap space. Mihm and Brown's contracts are similar. Stewart and Battie have similar contracts, but Battie's runs for an extra season. 

Basically, I think it's good for both teams. The Cavs are getting solid role players to surround LeBron and Boozer. It should make them a much better defensive team. The Celtics are getting the more talented players, and a Pierce/Davis combo could be very good. They lose some defense, but the gain in offense should offset it. In a way, it is similar to the Bulls/Raptors trade earlier this season.


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## Chef

You guys forget the Cavs need to free playing time for Dajuan Wagner and Desagana Diop, when they recover from their injuries...


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## rosenthall

I like the trade for the Cavs. It's a lot like futuristxen said. The Cavs had enough young talent, and not enough veteran role players who knew how to win games. Eric Williams and Tony Battie won't win games for you by themselves, but they both know how to play certain roles within a framework that is conducive to winning ballgames. Both of them will defend, and defer to the other players that will want the ball. 

Ricky Davis was really talented, but when he's not dominating the ball, he doesn't really know what to do with himself, and it was pretty clear that this new Cavs team was not one where he fit in, and probably wasn't going to in the future either. 

And this trade also gets rid of some long term contracts that they didn't need. Overall, this trade makes Cleveland a much more balanced team on both sides of the ball.


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## futuristxen

Ricky Davis effectively played his way out of a team with 6 wins. That is kind of alarming. I think going into the season most Cavs fans thought Wagner was going to be the odd man out. But nope. It was Ricky. His inability to accept or even understand a secondary role and play defense clearly irked Silas.

And tpb2, I agree that eventually Lebron will need another star with him. But Davis clearly wasn't it. In the short term you hope between Miles and Wagner, one of them would be that guy. But if not, the Cavs are clearing some cap room. And I would think playing with Lebron and Silas would be a fairly attractive proposition.

The Cavs already have their Horace Grant with Boozer. Now they just have to find their Pippen.

Who knows. Maybe Kedrick Brown is that guy? Celtics fans have been really high on this kid. I would think this is his opportunity.


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## Minstrel

From a talent perspective, the Cavaliers got ripped off. Rickey Davis is miles better than any other player in the deal.

However, the Cavaliers definitely have a reason to want to surround James with certain types of players; players James can make better, who will play a team-oriented game.

The real issue I have with the Cavs is that they should have found a better deal. A deal that returns complimentary players without such a major talent disparity.

I have no problem with the concept of dealing Davis...but the Cavs should have recouped more of his value in return.


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## TyGuy

Ya like Davis and Z for antoine walker and tony delk when they had the chance.


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## chapi

terrible trade for the cavs imo they got a hurt batman an expiring contract that wont resign in erick and a young player that might develop into a roleplayer, for a player that is capable of scoring 25 a nite in ricky a serviceable backup in mihm and filler. are they trying to clone the "succesfull" orlando magic?


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## tpb2

it isnt an individual talent show, or else we'd be in a playoff spot


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## futuristxen

> Originally posted by <b>TyGuy</b>!
> Ya like Davis and Z for antoine walker and tony delk when they had the chance.


They could probably still get Walker from Dallas with Z.

Which would make the deal, Davis and Z for Walker, Williams, Brown, and Battie...which is a much better deal.

Z is a major bargaining chip. Davis is not. I think people have overrated how much his talent means in this league, and underrated what his bad attitude has done. I'm sure that his problems this season with Silas, combined with his problems with Lucas, and Pat Riley=Someone you'd have to be crazy to want for your team. I mean, seriously. What does that say about you as a player if you can't stick with Pat Riley, Paul Silas or even Lucas?

I think Danny Ainge is doing this so he can fire Jim O'Brien later in the season once Davis proves he's bat**** insane.

I would wait and see who Paxson gets for Z before I started ripping him.


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## bl611

You're all overestimating Davis' trade value, he is known throughout the league as a cancer to whoever he plays for, most teams wouldn't take him for free


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## Nevus

A couple more questions and comments from me...

1. If Ricky Davis is as good as a lot of people have been saying, why couldn't they get more for him? You know they were looking. But what team in the league would trade a star-quality player for Ricky? There's a reason why they wouldn't.

2. I don't know much about Kedrick Brown. What's his attitude like and how is he defensively?


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## rebelsun

> Originally posted by <b>bl611</b>!
> You're all overestimating Davis' trade value, he is known throughout the league as a cancer to whoever he plays for, most teams wouldn't take him for free


Yeah, but he is very athletic and has lots of talent. There will always be a coach or a team that will gamble on troubled talent.


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## tpb2

> You're all overestimating Davis' trade value, he is known throughout the league as a cancer to whoever he plays for, most teams wouldn't take him for free


 :yes: 


But according to STARBURY03.....



> No he wasnt Lebron is the cancer.


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## BEEZ

> Originally posted by <b>Starbury03</b>!
> Ricky didnt have a bad contract Williams has a worse one.


Williams contract expires at the end of the year. That gives them a extra 6 mil in cap space at the end of the year that they didnt have before. Players are going to want to play with Lebron. Great trade financially and "team" wise. Talent wise Cleavland got ripped.


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## Nevus

It's not like having Ricky's talent really helped the Cavaliers... so what are they really losing?


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## Pinball

I think it was a solid deal for Cle from a financial standpoint. If Davis was that big of a distraction then I guess it made sense to get rid of him. I don't think this deal hurts Boston at all though. If anything, it might just help them. Pierce gets another scorer to help take the load off of him. Davis gets a change of scenery and you might just see a more motivated Ricky Davis the rest of the year. Battie is a solid defender inside but he can be replaced. Mihm will probably play C and Baker will move back to PF. Baker is actually playing well this year too. Brown is a better defender than Davis but Ricky is a much better player. As BEEZ pointed out, Boston ripped the Cavs off talent-wise. Will Davis be able to fit in? Who knows? It's not like the Celtics were tearing it up though. They are a .500 team right now. I don't see them getting much worse with Davis on board.


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## Big John

> Originally posted by <b>Nevus</b>!
> A couple more questions and comments from me...
> 
> 2. I don't know much about Kedrick Brown. What's his attitude like and how is he defensively?


Kedrick Brown is a lock-down one-on-one defender and one of the best pure athletes in the NBA. And he's only 21 years old. On offense he gets lost sometimes. He wants to shoot the three instead of taking it to the rack.


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## Premier

> Originally posted by <b>Starbury03</b>!
> Ricky didnt have a bad contract Williams has a worse one.


Williams has an EXPIRING Contract. That's valuable. 5.5 million. Plus good leadership and a gurranteed 10 and 5


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## ShowTmeBALLA

Did Michael Stewart change his name to Yogi?


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## Premier

*Re: Re: Cavs Trade with Celtics*



> Originally posted by <b>futuristxen</b>!
> 
> 
> I'm sorry. But I like this trade. For the Cavs. Ricky Davis is addition by subtraction. Yogi Stewart was also a problem child. The only guy they will miss is Chris Mihm. But Tony Battie will be a terrific replacement, especially with Diop out right now(I don't think Cleveland is done dealing...by a long shot). Eric Williams and Kedrick Brown give them two athletic, defensive wings to put out there with Lebron.
> 
> I think the Cavs are looking for less "talent" and more guys with basketball IQ who know how to win. Lebron is all the talent you need if you surround him with the right role players. And I think that's what the Cavs are doing.
> 
> Look at the last game. Lebron was clearly carrying the scoring load. And when he's doing that there's no place for Ricky Davis. Davis was just getting some assists, being confused, and getting less than 10 points. I'm sure Eric Williams can fill that role better.
> 
> As for the Celts. Why'd you trade Antoine Walker again? Davis has worse shot selection than Toine. This could be very interesting. It's Ricky's last chance, I think. If he doesn't figure things out in Boston, he'll never figure them out, and he'll end up like Isiah Rider.


What? Tony Battie is plauged with injuries and he's not that good anyways. Chris Mihm is much better.

Tony Battie is getting 13/11/2 per 48

Chris Mihm is getting 19/17/1 per 48

Kedrick Brown/Eric Williams is getting 18/8.5/2.5 per 48

Ricky Davis is getting 20/7/7 per 48

Michael Stewart is getting 5/11/5 (blocks) per 48

I like it.


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## Premier

http://basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=67544&perpage=20&pagenumber=1 

Celtic Thread On the Trade


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## Premier

> Originally posted by <b>ShowTmeBALLA</b>!
> Did Michael Stewart change his name to Yogi?


Wondering the same thing.


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## FSH

What a stupied trade by the Cavs..They give up 2 great player for hardly anything even thou Eric Williams is ok player..But Mihm is a great player when he gets playing time and he is a 7' footer..Ricky Davis is the best scorer on the Cavs and they just trade him for nothin..Cavs are really into building that team just around Bron and that is a stupied move..


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## Premier

> Originally posted by <b>futuristxen</b>!
> Ricky Davis effectively played his way out of a team with 6 wins. That is kind of alarming. I think going into the season most Cavs fans thought Wagner was going to be the odd man out. But nope. It was Ricky. His inability to accept or even understand a secondary role and play defense clearly irked Silas.
> 
> And tpb2, I agree that eventually Lebron will need another star with him. But Davis clearly wasn't it. In the short term you hope between Miles and Wagner, one of them would be that guy. But if not, the Cavs are clearing some cap room. And I would think playing with Lebron and Silas would be a fairly attractive proposition.
> 
> The Cavs already have their Horace Grant with Boozer. Now they just have to find their Pippen.
> 
> Who knows. Maybe Kedrick Brown is that guy? Celtics fans have been really high on this kid. I would think this is his opportunity.


Me, Aqua, and most of the membors on the Celtic board keep on saying Kedrick Brown is going to be a potential All-Star. Brown is going to be a Richard Jefferson type player. Good D. Athletic. Bad outside shooter. Solid player


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## The_Franchise

*Stein likes trade for both teams*



> I credit Ainge for taking a gamble after his attempts to land Bonzi Wells before Memphis were thwarted. The Cavs would have preferred trading Ricky for Williams straight up, but Boston also is searching for size to fill the Raef void. That's why Boston held out for Chris Mihm and Michael Stewart.
> 
> Cleveland's retaliation was getting Kedrick Brown instead of Walter McCarty. That means Jim Paxson is happy and so is Tommy Heinsohn.


http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=stein_marc&id=1687073


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## futuristxen

> Originally posted by <b>Four_Season_Hustler</b>!
> What a stupied trade by the Cavs..They give up 2 great player for hardly anything even thou Eric Williams is ok player..But Mihm is a great player when he gets playing time and he is a 7' footer..Ricky Davis is the best scorer on the Cavs and they just trade him for nothin..Cavs are really into building that team just around Bron and that is a stupied move..


Chris Mihm is not a "great" player. In any sense of the word. He's been playing the best basketball of his career under Silas. I think a lot of that has had to do with Silas. Also, as a starting center, he's not as good as he has been off the bench. The Cavs are clearing up minutes for Diop when he comes back.

That said, Mihm could end up being the best player out of this deal for Boston.

And Ricky Davis isn't the best scorer on the Cavs. Lebron is entirely capable of being twice the scorer, this season. Ricky settles for that 15 foot jumper too much. Lebron takes it to the hole. And the last 4 games Ricky has been averaging under 10 ppg. Against the Celtics it was Lebron and Darius Miles who were doing the scoring.

The fact that people think this was a stupid deal for the cavs, underscores that a lot of us still haven't learned our lesson with regards to "Talent" vs. what it takes to have a winning basketball team. This type of thinking is why a lot of people thought the Cavs were better than the Nuggets coming into the season. Problem is "talent" doesn't translate directly to winning basketball, and I think this deal goes a long ways toward giving the Cavs a better mix of players.

People say the Cavs should have held out for a star player for Davis. But name me one team that would give up a star player for Davis? I can't think of one. So I'm asking. Davis has yet to figure out how to realize his potential. And if he couldn't do it with Lebron, I wonder how he'll react to Pierce. If he tries the **** he was trying with Lebron, Pierce will kick his ***. Pierce is clearly the number one option. If Ricky Davis doesn't figure out how to be a second option for the celtics, then this kid is insane.


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## Nevus

Good post futuristxen.

Celtics fans: The other thing I want to know about Kedrick Brown is, what is his attitude? Does he work hard, is he willing to learn? Do you think he will respond well to playing with LeBron? What does he want to do in the league?


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## Big John

> Originally posted by <b>Nevus</b>!
> Good post futuristxen.
> 
> Celtics fans: The other thing I want to know about Kedrick Brown is, what is his attitude? Does he work hard, is he willing to learn? Do you think he will respond well to playing with LeBron? What does he want to do in the league?


LeBron will make him an all-star. They will love him in Cleveland. The next human highlight reel. Plus, he plays defense. He can guard the other team's best scorer and shut him down.


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## Premier

> Originally posted by <b>Nevus</b>!
> Good post futuristxen.
> 
> Celtics fans: The other thing I want to know about Kedrick Brown is, what is his attitude? Does he work hard, is he willing to learn? Do you think he will respond well to playing with LeBron? What does he want to do in the league?


He's humble, and has a good work ethic. He is the opposite of Ricky Davis. How about that.


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## Premier

I just heard that Paul Pierce had a lot to do with this trade. He's friends with Ricky Davis and said he was "coachable".


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## Bad Bartons

> Originally posted by <b>Nevus</b>!
> Good post futuristxen.
> 
> Celtics fans: The other thing I want to know about Kedrick Brown is, what is his attitude? Does he work hard, is he willing to learn? Do you think he will respond well to playing with LeBron? What does he want to do in the league?


Kedrick Brown has a great attitude. If anything I would want him to be a little more cocky. He is very quiet and reserved.

With his hops most guys would be overly proud. Kedrick is very humble.

I think he will be one of those kind of guys that will go very well with LeBron. He is an awesome defender and a good rebounder and shot blocker for a swingman.


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## Bad Bartons

> Originally posted by <b>Celts11</b>!
> I just heard that Paul Pierce had a lot to do with this trade. He's friends with Ricky Davis and said he was "coachable".


I hope you are right. If Pierce and Davis are friends then Pierce should be able to get through to Ricky and help him with his attitude, his inconsistency and his defense.

This is looking like a good trade for Cleveland and a VERY GOOD trade for the Celtics.


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## kcchiefs-fan

Whoa, Pierce and Ricky are friends? Than this is probably a terrific trade for the C's. I think it's great for both, to be honest.


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## TheRifleman

> Originally posted by <b>tpb2</b>!
> Well, they got rid of Davis, finally.
> 
> Ricky Davis, Chris Mihm, Yogi Stewart
> 
> for
> 
> Tony Battie, Eric Williams, Kedrick Brown
> 
> 
> 
> comments


Hmmmmm. I am still thinking about this trade. my first reaction was this:

<b>The Celtics got another scorer in Ricky & a big body & a guy who can rebound. 

The Cavs got rid of a guy who didn't buy into the Silas way of doing things. What does that mean for Ricky and the Cs?


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## TheRifleman

> Originally posted by <b>Bad Bartons</b>!
> 
> 
> Kedrick Brown has a <b>great attitude. </b> If anything I would want him to be a little more cocky. He is very quiet and reserved.
> 
> With his hops most guys would be overly proud. Kedrick is very humble.
> 
> I think he will be one of those kind of guys that will go very well with LeBron. He is an awesome defender and a good rebounder and shot blocker for a swingman.


I second everything he said about Kedrick! :yes:


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## NYKBaller

Celtics are back in the playoff hunt, good trade for them....


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## walkon4

*damn*

I just don't get it.

Can someone point to some proof of an incident of why this guy has such a bad rep?

Its just ridiculous. He had one incident in which he caught his own rebound for a triple double. So f'in what. I am tired of guys getting bad reps, that they don't deserve

As far as I'm concerned give a bad rep to a guy like Rasheed Wallace. Hes a cancer. He is trouble. His attitude is [edit].

just stupid. 

I hope ricky proves all the people wrong


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## Nevus

> I just don't get it.
> 
> Can someone point to some proof of an incident of why this guy has such a bad rep?
> 
> Its just ridiculous. He had one incident in which he caught his own rebound for a triple double. So f'in what. I am tired of guys getting bad reps, that they don't deserve
> 
> As far as I'm concerned give a bad rep to a guy like Rasheed Wallace. Hes a cancer. He is trouble. His attitude is s$#@.
> 
> just stupid.
> 
> I hope ricky proves all the people wrong


So you think Cavaliers fans who watch all the Cavs games are just delusional and Ricky was actually great for the Cavaliers all along?

You think Ricky actually has a great attitude and his coach, teammates, and fans just misinterpreted it?

What do you know about Ricky? Apparently nothing. Why did you post this? It makes no sense.


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## Dre

> Originally posted by <b>Nevus</b>!
> 
> 
> So you think Cavaliers fans who watch all the Cavs games are just delusional and Ricky was actually great for the Cavaliers all along?
> 
> You think Ricky actually has a great attitude and his coach, teammates, and fans just misinterpreted it?
> 
> .


I do. I Think Passionate Fans tend to passionately support something that is not as big as it should be. Case in point, Ricky Davis. What has he done? Any DUI's? Micheal Freaking Jordan fought in practice at times, if Davis' team conecpt is the issue. Is MJ a cancer? Was he bashed like this? No. And he's probably said a lot of worse stuff to teammates than this guy has. I've heard some stories.


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## Potatoe

I am firmly in the "this was a good deal for Cleveland" camp.

Clearly people here are over valuing Ricky Davis. 

Davis is a selfish "stat whore" who looks great in the box score but does not help his team win. When you wear out your welcome with one of the worst teams in Basketball it says things about you that the stats will never show.

I don't think that Davis is capable of playing a role on a winning basketball team, not long term anyway. He's a 3rd option who tries day in and day out to be a first option. He will probably go to Boston and get off to a nice start but I would bet that this time next year we will be hearing the same thing from Boston that we have heard out of Cleveland.


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## futuristxen

*Re: damn*



> Originally posted by <b>TheTruth34</b>!
> I just don't get it.
> 
> Can someone point to some proof of an incident of why this guy has such a bad rep?
> 
> Its just ridiculous. He had one incident in which he caught his own rebound for a triple double. So f'in what. I am tired of guys getting bad reps, that they don't deserve
> 
> As far as I'm concerned give a bad rep to a guy like Rasheed Wallace. Hes a cancer. He is trouble. His attitude is s$#@.
> 
> just stupid.
> 
> I hope ricky proves all the people wrong


It's not something people are making up. Silas has alluded to the fact that Lebron's recent slump where he was shooting 25 percent from the field, had a little something to do with the attitude of one Mr. Ricky Davis. Silas has already benched him this season for long stretches, and entire games. And if you watch the Cavs actually play, you can see that Davis is basically acting like a child on the court(funny that between him and the 18 year old, the 18 year old one is the only one acting like a vet). I've seen Davis shoot everytime he touched the ball in games, I've seen him refuse to shoot it to try and prove a point to Silas, I've seen him look like a great defender, and then other times have no interest in it, I've seen him make the most boneheaded plays at the end of games like he'd never played in the NBA before....the guy just doesn't get it. And it's a shame. Because he does have a ton of talent.

Hopefully being friends with Pierce bodes well for the celtics. But I imagine it just means an end to their friendship.

I mean, explain to me how you don't get along with Lebron James and Paul Silas? How does that happen? Even John Lucas who is known for being able to deal with crazy people, couldn't control Davis. Pat Riley didn't want anything to do with him.

It's good that he's not bad off the court. But that doesn't change much on it. He's kind of dumber less talented version of Rod Strickland in his prime.


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## walkon4

> Originally posted by <b>Nevus</b>!
> 
> 
> So you think Cavaliers fans who watch all the Cavs games are just delusional and Ricky was actually great for the Cavaliers all along?
> 
> You think Ricky actually has a great attitude and his coach, teammates, and fans just misinterpreted it?
> 
> What do you know about Ricky? Apparently nothing. Why did you post this? It makes no sense.


you make no sense

Without evidence, quotes are a link, your "problems" with ricky are false. 

Do you play with Ricky? Do you sit on the sidelines? Do you travel with the team? What Do YOU Know about Ricky? Apparently nothing.


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## tpb2

I hear the cleveland talk, and Davis' problems are evident. I dont think anyone questions that.


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## futuristxen

> Originally posted by <b>dre1218us</b>!
> 
> 
> I do. I Think Passionate Fans tend to passionately support something that is not as big as it should be. Case in point, Ricky Davis. What has he done? Any DUI's? Micheal Freaking Jordan fought in practice at times, if Davis' team conecpt is the issue. Is MJ a cancer? Was he bashed like this? No. And he's probably said a lot of worse stuff to teammates than this guy has. I've heard some stories.


Guess what tho. As good as Ricky Davis thinks he is. Michael Jordan he is not. Jordan could get away with more, because he was never leading his team to a 17 win season. And I think Jordan was an ******* because he was a brilliant competitor. I never hear much about Ricky Davis' burning desire to be the greatest. There's a reason for that.

I don't think this needs to turn into a bash Ricky Davis thread, but some of you are a little blind about this guy. He's getting kicked off the cavs for the same reason he's been kicked out every situation he's been in. Hopefully(and this is a familiar refrain with Ricky Davis) he finally will get it. Hopefully Paul Pierce lights a fire under this guy and gets him to take off the dunce cap. And if he doesn't...well they did get Chris Mihm in the deal.


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## sologigolos

*Re: Re: damn*



> Originally posted by <b>futuristxen</b>!
> 
> I've seen Davis shoot everytime he touched the ball in games, I've seen him refuse to shoot it to try and prove a point to Silas, I've seen him look like a great defender, and then other times have no interest in it, I've seen him make the most boneheaded plays at the end of games like he'd never played in the NBA before....the guy just doesn't get it. And it's a shame. Because he does have a ton of talent.



exactly. i've never been a big fan of ricky davis, that triple-double incident (unlike for TheTruth34, that incident was mindblowingly inexcusable to me), and watching him act like a child on court this season has proven this to me, over and over again.

on paper, this is a good trade for both teams. everything had been said.

Cavs get
1) tough defender and a leader in E-Will, someone to help the kids grow, and 6 million off the books
2) Battie, who can contribute and block shots at the 4 if healthy (he was always out of position at the 5 in boston, will thrive with Z at the 5 in Cleveland)
3) a young, athletic player with a great attitude and tough defense in Kedrick Brown, who, as pointed out, can become a R. Jefferson type of a player, will certainly develop with Silas.

Celtics get
1) Davis, a proven scorer to take a load off Pierce, and a talented all-around player (5 rpg, 5 apg this season)
2) Mihm, who is putting up 8-8-1 in 18 minutes a game--desperately needed starting center who can rebound and block. Even if he can't produce at that rate, he should be able to step it up to a consistent double-double guy with 30 minutes a game
3) Stewart, a big body who can bang, and an expiring contract (around 4 mil?)

but at the same time, Mihm is completely unproven, having a career year, and no one knows how that will carry on with Boston
and Davis... like i said, inexcusable on-court behavior, and more than anything, it jsut doesn't make sense. Ainge traded Toine, mainly because of his inconsistent effort and his terrible shot selection. And now we have the same guy in Davis, just a smaller, skinnier, and doesn't rebound as much (and doesn't do that ugly wiggle after a rare three).

i like the trade for Mihm. But nonetheless, it just seems like a dumb trade for the Celtics. Cavs were looking to move Davis at any cost--they have a glut at the swing position. Although talent-wise, it was a downgrade, it really doesn't affect the Cavs.


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## futuristxen

I kind of feel like the real part of this trade is getting Mihm. Just like I kind of feel like in the walker deal, it was getting Welsch.


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## tpb2

> I kind of feel like the real part of this trade is getting Mihm. Just like I kind of feel like in the walker deal, it was getting Welsch.



Well, the Celtics declined E. Will for Davis strait up. Getting Mihm, a big man, is what they wanted.


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## sologigolos

> Originally posted by <b>futuristxen</b>!
> I kind of feel like the real part of this trade is getting Mihm. Just like I kind of feel like in the walker deal, it was getting Welsch.



was thinkin the exact same thing


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## #1BucksFan

NOT YOGI!


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## Scinos

> Originally posted by <b>tpb2</b>!
> Well, the Celtics declined E. Will for Davis strait up. Getting Mihm, a big man, is what they wanted.


IMO, Ricky Davis was the main piece in the trade. Mihm and Stewart were just needed to patch up the center position and as a sort of insurance, incase the Ricky experiment doesn't work.


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## Nevus

The person I really think the Cavaliers should get is Andrei Kirilenko... when does he become a free agent?


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## tpb2

> The person I really think the Cavaliers should get is Andrei Kirilenko... when does he become a free agent?


does he like Utah a lot or would he be willing to go; this might be the pippen-type (role on the team) player to add


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## Dre

One question...how the hell does Ainge deal with Davis if he loathed Walker so much.....I think he either changes, or finds himself in another uniform next year...


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## compsciguy78

I like this deal for the Cavs. Lebron's numbers are going to be better this year and the team is going to win more with Ricky Davis gone. If Boozer can stay healthy, him and Lebron are the connection this year. Ricky Davis has as much physical gifts as anyone in the league(besides Lebron..wink), but he hasn't matured yet. It could still happen, but Lebron will be better off in the long run without having to put up with Davis.


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## Pinball

> Originally posted by <b>Scinos</b>!
> 
> 
> IMO, Ricky Davis was the main piece in the trade. Mihm and Stewart were just needed to patch up the center position and as a sort of insurance, incase the Ricky experiment doesn't work.


I agree. Why is it so hard for people to believe that the Celtics actually wanted Davis? Mihm was a nice "throw in" but he was by no means the centerpiece in this deal. Davis IS an extremely talented player. Is he selfish? Yes. Is he a stat whore? I think so? Does he have a bad attitude? It sure sounds like it? Can he help a team win? Maybe, maybe not. Some of you are blaming Davis for everything that has gone wrong with the Cavs and I just don't think that is fair. The Cavs are still a bad team because of their youth, spotty defense, and poor perimeter shooting. Maybe Davis didn't help assuage the situation but outside of some of the elite players in basketball, I'm not sure anyone could have. At the end of the day I fail to see how this was a bad move by Boston. At worst, it was a lateral move. Davis gives Boston the second scorer that they desperately needed. Mihm gives them a solid big man to help replace Battie and Raef. Stewart will probably play some junk minutes. With a trio of Pierce, Davis, and Baker I think they are right back in the thick of things in the East. Remember that this Boston team was barely a .500 team with Brown, Battie, and Williams. They didn't have a great year last year either (6th place finish after second place in 2002) and that was with Walker. They needed to do something to shake things up in Beantown and I think they did the right thing. This could end up blowing up in their faces but were they really going anywhere to begin with?


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## sologigolos

> Originally posted by <b>Pinball</b>!
> 
> 
> I agree. Why is it so hard for people to believe that the Celtics actually wanted Davis? Mihm was a nice "throw in" but he was by no means the centerpiece in this deal.



not that mihm and welsch were "centerpieces". ainge wouldn't have pulled the trigger if it weren't for welsch (nelson was reluctant to give him up) and likewise for mihm. they are not "throwin"s as you suggest--i think they were pretty damn important.


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## Bad Bartons

*Ricky Davis as a defender*

I always considered Ricky Davis a poor defensive player.

Then I read an analysis of the trade today on ESPN and the author states that Davis is Cleveland's best one on one defender...it is just difficult to get him to WANT to play defense.

What do those of you familiar with Davis think of his defensive ablility?


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## Pinball

*Re: Ricky Davis as a defender*



> Originally posted by <b>Bad Bartons</b>!
> I always considered Ricky Davis a poor defensive player.
> 
> Then I read an analysis of the trade today on ESPN and the author states that Davis is Cleveland's best one on one defender...it is just difficult to get him to WANT to play defense.
> 
> What do those of you familiar with Davis think of his defensive ablility?


Athletically, I'd imagine there is nothing that he can't do. However, he doesn't appear to have a stopper's mentality from what I've seen. I guess you can develop that but that is usually that you either have or you don't. He should be much better though. At the very least he should be an above-average defender with his physical gifts.


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## Nevus

I saw a few games where he played very strong individual defense.


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## Mongolmike

Ricky does not like contact. If his man runs him through a few hard picks/screens, Ricky's defense disappears. He also overplays his man too much to one side, and for all his athletic ability, he really doesn't use it well to intercept passes in the lane, or block jump shots from his man. Defense is desire, and Ricky's only desire is to score.


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## MightyReds2020

For Cavs, here's the best part of this deal that nobody seems to have mentioned:

According to HoopsHype.com's numbers, the Cavs will have roughly $34 millions on the book next year, assuming they used the qualifying offer on Darius Miles ($5.4 millions).

Now, let's say the cap stay at or around 43, 44 millions next season. The Cavs will have about $10, 11 millions in cap space. Their rookie first-round pick next year will cost them another $4 millions, assuming that is a top 5 pick judging by the standings right now. So they will have 6 to 7 millions to play with when the FA period begins next summer. Now guess where the money would go to?

Carlos Boozer! That's right! Boozer will be a non-Bird, restricted FA next summer, which means the Cavs need as many cap space as they can get to resign Boozer. With the way Boozer's playing right now, it is possible some team will offer him a long term, $6/$7 million-a-year. By doing this trade, the Cavs got just under the cap to make the risk of losing Carlos Boozer minimal. Briliant!


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## Minstrel

I think Carlos Boozer is slowly but surely becoming overrated. He's going from a hard-working rebounder with limited upside to a young star-in-the-making that needs to be locked up.

In my opinion, you can find Boozer-types fairly cheaply and a new, hard-working, previously-unknown rebounder emerges every season. A rebounder/defender of Boozer's quality with Boozer's limited offensive game could also be found in the draft fairly easily, in my opinion.

I don't think he's worth sinking $6-7 million into. I'd be quite surprised if anyone even invested a full mid-level exception in him (which, itself, is quite an outlay of cash).

The Cavs would be much better off hording cap room until they are under the cap enough to acquire a true superstar to pair with LeBron James as soon as possible. They can then fill in around the two with role-players drafted, picked up with exceptions and traded for with players like Ilgauskas, Miles, etc.


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## Mattsanity

Ricky Davis = Antoine Walker
Eric Williams = Raef Lafrentz

Hmm....


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## MightyReds2020

> Originally posted by <b>Minstrel</b>!
> I think Carlos Boozer is slowly but surely becoming overrated. He's going from a hard-working rebounder with limited upside to a young star-in-the-making that needs to be locked up.
> 
> In my opinion, you can find Boozer-types fairly cheaply and a new, hard-working, previously-unknown rebounder emerges every season. A rebounder/defender of Boozer's quality with Boozer's limited offensive game could also be found in the draft fairly easily, in my opinion.
> 
> I don't think he's worth sinking $6-7 million into. I'd be quite surprised if anyone even invested a full mid-level exception in him (which, itself, is quite an outlay of cash).
> 
> The Cavs would be much better off hording cap room until they are under the cap enough to acquire a true superstar to pair with LeBron James as soon as possible. They can then fill in around the two with role-players drafted, picked up with exceptions and traded for with players like Ilgauskas, Miles, etc.


You have good points. I don't watch enough of Boozer's games to judge his value. However, if he keeps getting double-double the rest of the season, and show signs of becoming an effective scorer, will he be at least as effective as the Dale Davises or P.J Browns of the world? Keep in mind that Davis and Brown each got pretty big contract for what they were doing - those dirty works and putback points, and people were saying their deal were reasonble the time they signed the contracts.


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## futuristxen

> Originally posted by <b>Mattsanity</b>!
> Ricky Davis = Antoine Walker
> Eric Williams = Raef Lafrentz
> 
> Hmm....


If that's the case, then why did Ainge trade Walker in the first place if he was just going to get rid of Eric Williams to get him.

Oh yeah. That's right. Because Danny Ainge has no real clue as to what he's doing and he is singlehandedly doing his damnedest to make Boston a lottery team.

Someone should tell him there's no Lebron in next years draft.

Ainge's next move will be to trade Pierce for Keith Van Horn.

And he'll fire O'Brien at some point. Because O'Brien and staff just keep turning out competitive teams no matter how much the boston front office sabatoges them.

It must really suck to be a boston fan and have you front office doing everything in it's power to delude the product on the floor. I have a lot of respect for how O'Brien has handled having his favorite players traded out from under him the past two seasons. He doesn't deserve to have to be the guy who saves Ricky Davis' career.


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## Minstrel

> Originally posted by <b>MightyReds2020</b>!
> 
> However, if he keeps getting double-double the rest of the season, and show signs of becoming an effective scorer, will he be at least as effective as the Dale Davises or P.J Browns of the world?


If he seems like he has the offensive game to score in double digits on a good team, then yes, I think he could be likened to a PJ Brown.

I currently don't think he has such an offensive game. He scores in double digits in part because of fast breaks but also in garbage collection: offensive put-backs of missed jumpers, of which there are many on this team.

Right now, I guess I see him mostly as a Marcus Camby without the shot-blocking (and injuries). Since shot-blocking is a major part of Camby, I don't think I'd pay Boozer a whole lot. Maybe part of the mid-level. If that weren't enough, I think another Boozer can be found in the draft.


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## futuristxen

Boozer does have that 15 foot Jumper. Which is perfect for playing with Lebron. I really think Horace Grant is the best comparison. Grant was never as good a shotblocker as PJ Brown is. But he had some offense. He hit the boards. And played smart defense.

You have to be carefull with Boozer. He's a valuable player to have. But he's the type of guy that team's end up overpaying for. He should get paid. But not superstar level. He can be the 3rd guy very easily.


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## DJRaz

*good points all*

wow an intelligent basketball discussion online! 

seriously, i love boozer but i agree he doesn't appear to be worth superstar money. if he makes his living getting double-doubles you absolutely have to have him on a team trying to go deep into the playoffs, but he shouldn't be in the top 2 on the team salary-wise. i think they are freeing up that money to sign a bonafied superstar big man next year. who? i don't know, i suppose i could start guessing. but by year 3 lebron is gonna be more than a handful and having a legitimate second star on his team will have to make them one of the stronger teams in the east. if silas can build a team of strong role players like he did in charlotte the cavs can definitely make some noise.


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## MightyReds2020

> Originally posted by <b>Minstrel</b>!
> 
> ...
> I currently don't think he has such an offensive game. He scores in double digits in part because of fast breaks but also in garbage collection: offensive put-backs of missed jumpers, of which there are many on this team...


That's why I said 'if he shows signs of the scoring ability'. He don't have to do it consistently this season. Whatever teams decided to pay him big-bucks next season, they are spending half of the money on his potentials. I like futuristxen's comparison, that Boozer is very similar to Horace Grant. Horace did get good money when he left for Orlando. $6/7 millions-a-year for an effective big-man is not a bad investment, IMO.


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## Minstrel

If he ever becomes as good as Horace Grant was, in his prime, then he'll be worth $6-7 million. I have my doubts that he will, but who knows.


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## BEEZ

Boozer has 2 things that you cant teach. I agree that he is surely but slowly becoming overrated. Hes a hard worker and student of the game. You cant teach a winner and you cant teach soft hands and he has both. I think you will see a double double kind of player 10 and 11 while being a SOLID man defender


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## Mattsanity

> Originally posted by <b>futuristxen</b>!
> If that's the case, then why did Ainge trade Walker in the first place if he was just going to get rid of Eric Williams to get him.


I have no clue who he is (except that he played for 3 NBA teams), but I think it's because he's a moron.


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## Johnny Mac

With some consistency the rest of this season, Boozer does deserve some dough and should be resigned by the Cavs for a good amount of money. He is a hard worker, he went to a top notch college and played under one of the best coaches of all time, hes very coachable, has a good work ethic, has a good jumpshot and is built like a rock with a good rebounding ability. He deserves to be a 3rd or 4th option on a team easily, with some consistency of course.


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## MightyReds2020

> Originally posted by <b>Minstrel</b>!
> If he ever becomes as good as Horace Grant was, in his prime, then he'll be worth $6-7 million. I have my doubts that he will, but who knows.


Again I agreed with you. Horace Grant in his prime could get 6, 7 m or a little more per year today. Will Boozer become as good or better than Grant? Who knows.

Just for the record, I judge Boozer's value pretty much based on his stats only. I don't usually judge players by only stats but I did watch few Cavs games this season. Boozer stroke me as a very coachable, always-stay-under-control player who does his job well. I DO NOT think he deserves anything more than the MLE at this point but I suspect some teams, like Utah Jazz, will splash out a little bit more than the MLE based on his potentials (to become another Horace Grant or like). Teams spend with full cautiousness today but whichever team that get him, they may have a great complementary player in place for a long, long time.


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