# Players Importance to team



## NastyN44 (Jan 18, 2005)

Who are the top five most important players on the MAVS (in order) and who could be easliy replaced without hurting the team?


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## Tersk (Apr 9, 2004)

1. Dirk Nowitzki
2. Erick Dampier
3. Josh Howard
4. Jason Terry
5. Michael Finley

I think Quis can be replaced the easiest, Stackhouse is 6th


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

1. Nowitzki
2. Dampier
3. Terry
4. Finley
5. Howard (gaining on Finley by the game)

Daniels is no. 6, basically 5b. 

I think other than those players, Stack, and Harris (potential alone), I don't think we'd be hurt that drastically losing any other player.


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## Gambino (Feb 11, 2004)

1. Dirk
2. Howard
3. Dampier
4. Finley
5a. Terry
5b. Stackhouse


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## Dragnsmke1 (Jul 29, 2002)

Howard
Dirk
Daniels
Damp
Terry
Stack
Fin


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Dragnsmke1</b>!
> Howard
> Dirk


Can you elaborate?


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## Tersk (Apr 9, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Dragnsmke1</b>!
> Howard
> Dirk
> Daniels


:laugh: So what's your real list?


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## Dragnsmke1 (Jul 29, 2002)

I honestly think we can still win if Dirk were hurt...we have enough scorers in Terry, Fin, Stack, Howard, Harrisand Daniels....

Howard is our version of Artest, grabs clutch boardsd plays the other teams best Offensive weapon and usually holds them to a low total and he can put up 20-30 points a night if needed...he scores 15 without any plays being ran for him...hes not Reggie Miller but you better not leave him open...we lose when hes not playing...


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## Tersk (Apr 9, 2004)

Dallas are 2-4 without Josh Howard

Dallas are 0-1 without Dirk Nowitzki


Dirk is our main guy, we will not still win without him. We lose 27 points when he's not there. In the 1 game he didn't play, Dallas scored 82 points on 36% shooting, 23% 3 point shooting and 62% FG.

I find it really hard to believe that your saying;

Erick Dampier
Alan Henderson
Josh Howard
Michael Finley
Jason Terry

is a better team than;

Erick Dampier
Dirk Nowitzki
Jerry Stackhouse
Michael Finley
Jason Terry


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## Dragnsmke1 (Jul 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Theo!</b>!
> Dallas are 2-4 without Josh Howard
> 
> Dallas are 0-1 without Dirk Nowitzki
> ...


when did I say that?

I didnt say we would win a Chip with Howard, I just think hes more important then Dirk...You may lose 26 points with Dirk out but with Howard out you lose 15 points and the ability to take 20 points away from the other team...so with Howard out you lose about 35 points...Offensively I agree Dirk is too important but over all...


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Dragnsmke1</b>!
> I honestly think we can still win if Dirk were hurt...we have enough scorers in Terry, Fin, Stack, Howard, Harrisand Daniels....
> 
> Howard is our version of Artest, grabs clutch boardsd plays the other teams best Offensive weapon and usually holds them to a low total and he can put up 20-30 points a night if needed...he scores 15 without any plays being ran for him...hes not Reggie Miller but you better not leave him open...we lose when hes not playing...


Yeah, I agree, except when you say we can win without him. He's our *franchise player*, a top 10 player. You don't consistently win without a top 10 player in your line-up. We'd win a few games with scoring, but answer me this: Are we going to win in the playoffs with Henderson as our starting PF? No. I'm sure we could muster up a win or two if Dirk had a minor injury, but are you *really* trying to tell me we'd be better without Dirk than we would be without Howard? 

I'm usually not a stat-man, but look at this. These are Roland's Ratings . They rate the production of the team with and without certain players. Dirk is no. 1 by 6 points. Not on our team. In the league. The difference between him and no. 2 is the same as the difference between 2 and 23 (and that's roughly). And we're talking about the best players in the world. We have a lot of scoring, but don't forget who the number one option is. And for good reason. 

Howard is a great defender, but is his defender so much better than Dirk's that you'd rather have Howard? If so, I don't know what to say.


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## Tersk (Apr 9, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Dragnsmke1</b>!
> 
> 
> when did I say that?
> ...


Irony at it's finest. 

I never said we'd win the chip either. You said Howard is more important to this team, I said do you think we'd do better with the first lineup over the second lineup

Unless you think Josh Howard is more important to the team, but we are better with Dirk Nowitzki 
:uhoh:


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## Tersk (Apr 9, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>_Dre_</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> I'm usually not a stat-man, but look at this. These are Roland's Ratings . They rate the production of the team with and without certain players. Dirk is no. 1 by 6 points. Not on our team. In the league. The difference between him and no. 2 is the same as the difference between 2 and 23 (and that's roughly). And we're talking about the best players in the world. We have a lot of scoring, but don't forget who the number one option is. And for good reason.


It's 2 to 27 to be exact. Dirk Nowitzki is one of the most important players to his team. Josh Howard isn't even top 50


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## Dragnsmke1 (Jul 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>_Dre_</b>!
> 
> 
> Yeah, I agree, except when you say we can win without him. He's our *franchise player*, a top 10 player. You don't consistently win without a top 10 player in your line-up. We'd win a few games with scoring, but answer me this: Are we going to win in the playoffs with Henderson as our starting PF? No. I'm sure we could muster up a win or two if Dirk had a minor injury, but are you *really* trying to tell me we'd be better without Dirk than we would be without Howard?
> ...


Ill agree but remember this about the Roland ratings...They measure the plus minus of a team when a players on the court...The Mavs usually run up the score for the 1st 3 quarters and pray the other team doesnt catch up during the last...Dirk is not usually on the court for these runs...this makes his plus minus a bit lopsided...when the other teams get closes we usually put in our defensive stoppers before we put Dirk back in...that usually means Daniels and Howard and Damp...this would lowere the rolands...


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## Dragnsmke1 (Jul 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Theo!</b>!
> 
> 
> Irony at it's finest.
> ...


In my opinion Howard is more important to the team...whose more important Emmitt Smith or the O-line that cleared the path for him? Most people say Emmitt...I say the O-line...Howard is the O-line for Dirk...


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Dragnsmke1</b>!
> 
> 
> Ill agree but remember this about the Roland ratings...They measure the plus minus of a team when a players on the court...The Mavs usually run up the score for the 1st 3 quarters and pray the other team doesnt catch up during the last...Dirk is not usually on the court for these runs...this makes his plus minus a bit lopsided...when the other teams get closes we usually put in our defensive stoppers before we put Dirk back in...that usually means Daniels and Howard and Damp...this would lowere the rolands...


That said, Dirk's 27 points a game are what runs up the score in the first place. Dirk is usually the main factor that allows us to be winning going into the 4th quarter. We do tend to put our defensive specialists in first, but if the going gets tough in the 4th quarter, you think we're going to leave him on the bench? And even so, do you think one quarter skews his ratings so much that he wouldn't still be number one? Being anywhere near the top is quite an accomplishment, and like Theo said, Howard isn't even in the top 50. 

The Ratings were just evidence I used to back up my point. Dirk is one of the top 5 most important players to his team in the league. I don't see how you can be a Mavs fan and debate that he's our most important player. Do you think if LA had asked for Howard instead of Dirk for Shaq, that Cuban would've said no? That should be the kicker right there.


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## Tersk (Apr 9, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>_Dre_</b>!
> Do you think if LA had asked for Howard instead of Dirk for Shaq, that Cuban would've said no? That should be the kicker right there.


Probably, Josh would be the O-line for Kobe


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## Dragnsmke1 (Jul 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>_Dre_</b>!
> 
> 
> That said, Dirk's 27 points a game are what runs up the score in the first place. Dirk is usually the main factor that allows us to be winning going into the 4th quarter. We do tend to put our defensive specialists in first, but if the going gets tough in the 4th quarter, you think we're going to leave him on the bench? And even so, do you think one quarter skews his ratings so much that he wouldn't still be number one? Being anywhere near the top is quite an accomplishment, and like Theo said, Howard isn't even in the top 50.
> ...


Ive already said it...I beleive Dirk is a top 5 player in the league...were talking importance here, not ability... Dirk is way more talented then the Howard...in the importance to the team though I have to go with Howard...we cannot win a chip without either player but can we steal some W's without one or the other, I do remeber 3 years ago almost upsetting the Spurs without Dirk...Defense can win you games, and its not like Howard is a slouch on the O end either...If you think Cuban would have considered daniels and Howard in that trade...well I dont think he would have considered them...


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## Dragnsmke1 (Jul 29, 2002)

Oh, and 1 quarter or even 5 min can make a huge differnce in the Rolands...if a team goes on a 20 point run (like the Raptors did to us in 5 minutes) then everyone on the courts just got -20 points on thier Rolands...


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Dragnsmke1</b>!
> 
> 
> Ive already said it...I beleive Dirk is a top 5 player in the league...were talking importance here, not ability... Dirk is way more talented then the Howard...in the importance to the team though I have to go with Howard...we cannot win a chip without either player but can we steal some W's without one or the other, I do remeber 3 years ago almost upsetting the Spurs without Dirk...Defense can win you games, and its not like Howard is a slouch on the O end either...If you think Cuban would have considered daniels and Howard in that trade...well I dont think he would have considered them...


How are you going to be top 5, but not the most important player on your team? Unless you're name is Kobe Bryant in 2004, it's impossible. Don't those kinds of things come hand in hand? I mean, if Tim Duncan is on the Suns, and he's not at his best on the fast break, but Quentin Richardson is, does that make Richardson more important than Duncan to the Suns? If you think so, I don't know what to say. I'm already flabbergasted.



> The Mavs usually run up the score for the 1st 3 quarters and pray the other team doesnt catch up during the last...Dirk is not usually on the court for these runs...


So what is that saying? Why are we "praying"? Wouldn't we be "praying" because we hope we don't blow this lead while Dirk is on the bench? 



> In the 1 game he didn't play, Dallas scored 82 points on 36% shooting, 23% 3 point shooting and 62% FG.


In the games Howard doesn't play, we lost 4 out of 6, but we scored 96 points on 41% shooting, 37% 3 Point shooting and 85% FT percentage. 

What would you rather have? You're making me sound like I hate Howard, but I don't. I just don't believe you think he's more important to us than Dirk. He might play better defense than Nowitzki, but he's not more important to us overall. He's just not.


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## Dragnsmke1 (Jul 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>_Dre_</b>!
> 
> 
> How are you going to be top 5, but not the most important player on your team? Unless you're name is Kobe Bryant in 2004, it's impossible. Don't those kinds of things come hand in hand? I mean, if Tim Duncan is on the Suns, and he's not at his best on the fast break, but Quentin Richardson is, does that make Richardson more important than Duncan to the Suns? If you think so, I don't know what to say. I'm already flabbergasted.
> ...



wel thats the bueaty of having MY OWN opinion; Im not trying to get you to agree with me...I simply answered a question and when I was asked the reasoning behind my though process, I answered...what does that have to do with me being a Mav fan?


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## SMDre (Jan 28, 2005)

1. Dirk

2. Dampier

3./4. Howard/ Stackhouse

5. Terry

I believe that Stack and Howard are interchangable on the list. Stack moved up based on the Chicago game.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Dragnsmke1</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> wel thats the bueaty of having MY OWN opinion; Im not trying to get you to agree with me...I simply answered a question and when I was asked the reasoning behind my though process, I answered...what does that have to do with me being a Mav fan?


Ok Dragnsmke.


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## NastyN44 (Jan 18, 2005)

> Originally posted by <b>SMDre</b>!
> 1. Dirk
> 
> 2. Dampier
> ...



I Agree!


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## mavsman (Jun 11, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Dragnsmke1</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> wel thats the bueaty of having MY OWN opinion; Im not trying to get you to agree with me...I simply answered a question and when I was asked the reasoning behind my though process, I answered...what does that have to do with me being a Mav fan?


It's just hard to believe that anyone could say any player on this team in more important than Dirk. The Roland ratings may not be perfect but they do indicate how important a player is to a team. According to those ratings Dirk is not just the most important player on the Mavericks he is the most important player of anyone in the league to his own team.

I love Josh Howard and while I don't think he is on the level of Ron Artest, he is that type of player.

I kind of hate the comparison because Howard is a much more complete player than Bowen. But I think saying Howard is more important than Dirk is like saying Bowen is more important to the Spurs than Duncan. Never mind, I just looked up Bowens numbers and he is not in the same league as Howard in terms of being a complete player. How about it's like saying Tashaun Prince is more important to the Pistons than say Ben Wallace.
Still not a good one but the point is that Dirk is a Superstar and as great as Howard is he is nowhere close to as important to the team as Dirk. But that is my opinion and everyone is entitled to thier own opinion.

I am just happy to have both of them on the team.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

Dragnsmke1 said:


> I honestly think we can still win if Dirk were hurt...we have enough scorers in Terry, Fin, Stack, Howard, Harrisand Daniels....



Look at the boxscore. We shot 37%, and scored 69 points. 

Granted Finley was out to, but I don't think he would've been the difference. I think Dirk just proved he's easily our most important player.


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## SMDre (Jan 28, 2005)

_Dre_ said:


> I think Dirk just proved he's easily our most important player.


I think he proved that last season, but this game cements it.


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## Gambino (Feb 11, 2004)

NO what this proves is that Dampier is very very vital to this team. more than we thought.


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## The Future7 (Feb 24, 2005)

Yesterdays game pretty much sums up everything. Dirk is the Most important and valuable player on the Mavs. If he was playing on Sunday, we would have won the game.


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