# Combine results and Wingspans



## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

Wingspans 


Not complete. I took it from another thread in the Draft Forum.

Note Shelden's Agility is better than any other BIG of consequence.

And note that SW's wingspan is essentially the same as Hilton's and Aldridge's, which makes the Bench numbers all the more impressive, 25 to 8 SW over LA.


Marcus Williams is the SMOKESCREEN, not Shelden.

Ronnie Brewer certainly helped his stock with these numbers.

JJ Redick's agility rating my help him if the DWI didn't hurt him.


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## CrookedJ (May 8, 2003)

Wow - check out Farmar thats a surprise - look at the vertical and the sprint.

NBA DRAFT.net says:



> Weaknesses: Athleticism and strength could be an issue for him in the NBA ... Lacks great body strength, not a physical specimen type but has some leaping ability and quickness


Seems like they're not issues . . . and I guess "some leaping ability" means 42 inch verticle (highest in combine)


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## frank_white (Apr 20, 2005)

I don't like to make too much of these results, but I'm shocked at the verts of Morrison and Marcus Williams


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## Benis007 (May 23, 2005)

more than anything Brewer helped himself huge.

dude is a beast on the bench for someone that looks so stringy...
how many reps did joey g do last year???


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## Starbury03 (Aug 12, 2003)

Look at Shawne Williams verticals that is weird that is standing vertical is less than his max vert.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

Aldridge certainly is not an athletic freak by any stretch. Not strongest. Not fastest or quickest. Not an explosive leaper. 

Good standing reach. That's not enough for #1 to me. JJ Redick out-jumping anyone is not a good sign.


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## TRON (Feb 29, 2004)

Just to put the combine into perspective, didn't Joey Graham rank #1 last year?

-no way farmar has a 42 inch vert

- so much for Roy not being much of an athlete, he tested as fast and could jump as high as two of the uber atletes in Gay and Thomas


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## billfindlay10 (Jan 24, 2003)

TRON said:


> Just to put the combine into perspective, didn't Joey Graham rank #1 last year?
> 
> -no way farmar has a 42 inch vert
> 
> - so much for Roy not being much of an athlete, he tested as fast and could jump as high as two of the uber atletes in Gay and Thomas


Why does Farmar not have a 42 inch vert?


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## TRON (Feb 29, 2004)

> Originally posted by *blowuptheraptors !*
> 
> Aldridge certainly is not an athletic freak by any stretch. Not strongest. Not fastest or quickest. Not an explosive leaper.


Aldridge being a middle of the pack athlete probably isn't a shock to many. 

The bench is designed for stockier players like Sheldon to shine, where longer armed guys like Aldridge don't do so well, but doing 8 reps isn't that bad......(didn't Chris only do 4)

a 34 inch vert isn't bad as well considering Aldridges length


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## TRON (Feb 29, 2004)

> Originally posted by billfindlay10 !
> 
> Why does Farmar not have a 42 inch vert?


I just can't picture it, but it doesn't mean it's not true.


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## billfindlay10 (Jan 24, 2003)

TRON said:


> Aldridge being a middle of the pack athlete probably isn't a shock to many.
> 
> The bench is designed for stockier players like Sheldon to shine, where longer armed guys like Aldridge don't do so well, but doing 8 reps isn't that bad......(didn't Chris only do 4)
> 
> a 34 inch vert isn't bad as well considering Aldridges length


Sheldon Williams is thicker than Aldridge, but he in not short armed at all...he has a good standing reach and wing span....so by your reasoning he did fantastic at the bench press!


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## TRON (Feb 29, 2004)

> Originally posted by *billfindlay10 !*
> 
> Sheldon Williams is thicker than Aldridge, but he in not short armed at all...he has a good standing reach and wing span....so by your reasoning he did fantastic at the bench press!


definately, doing 25 reps is a feat.

but it shouldn't be discounted that Sheldon is a solid 250, and is sculpted like a body builder, so it's not as much of a surprise that he would dominate this event, even considering his length.


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## pmac34 (Feb 10, 2006)

a)how much weight is the press
b)how many did joey do


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## Starbury03 (Aug 12, 2003)

185
26?


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## billfindlay10 (Jan 24, 2003)

TRON said:


> definately, doing 25 reps is a feat.
> 
> but it shouldn't be discounted that Sheldon is a solid 250, and is sculpted like a body builder, so it's not as much of a surprise that he would dominate this event, even considering his length.


I expected Sheldon to do well.....but it does show that some of the other guys (Aldridge) have some work to do....Also even though Sheldon has some bulk, he has a great lane agility....this will help him in the weak side block area.


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## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

Sheldn Williams' vertical is exaggerated, cause of his big ol forehead.


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## Team Mao (Dec 17, 2005)

Why didn't Rondo go to the combine? I'm most curious to see his wingspan and athleticism results.


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## aizn (Jun 19, 2005)

ya, how the heck did farmar get a 42 inch vertical leap??

guillermo diaz would've easily taken that crown, he's got a 50 inch one. but farmar being the top? wow.

and david noel being the second fastest of this group? 0.01 seconds behind rodney carney.. pretty impressive.


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## AirBonner (May 28, 2005)

I wouldn't put too much stock in these results. Last year Deron Williams tested better than Chris Paul and Andrew Bogut placed 61st in the combine. David Lee who in my opinion is certainly not a very athletically gifted player ranked 11th overall which was far better than Charlie V who ranked 42nd (This certainly didn't stop Charlie from posterizing Lee at the ACC this season either).


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## Starbury03 (Aug 12, 2003)

David Lee is an athletic player. How would he not be considered a good athlete he won a slam dunk competition and he has good quickness and speed which helps him on the offensive glass. But yeah the resuls dont matter a huge amount because all that matter's is how you play on the court.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

http://nbadraft.net/2006campmeasurements002.asp

Full list.

Aldridge was ranked near last.

I would be SHOCKED if we take him. SHOCKED!!!


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## icehawk (May 30, 2003)

Just if anyone was curious about the rankings. Brewer, Carney, and Foye are the only ones worth mentioning, though.

1. David Noel
2. Ronnie Brewer
3. Dwayne Mitchell
4. Daniel Horton
5. Rodney Carney
6. Randy Foye
7. Taquan Dean
8. Brandon Bowman
9. Nik Caner-Medley
10. Curtis Withers


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

icehawk said:


> Just if anyone was curious about the rankings. Brewer, Carney, and Foye are the only ones worth mentioning, though.
> 
> 1. David Noel
> 2. Ronnie Brewer
> ...


Caner-Medley certainly helped himself. When white guys that can play prove they are also athletes, they go up the charts.


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## ATM (Jun 23, 2003)

Starbury03 said:


> David Lee is an athletic player. How would he not be considered a good athlete he won a slam dunk competition and he has good quickness and speed which helps him on the offensive glass. But yeah the resuls dont matter a huge amount because all that matter's is how you play on the court.


Haven't you heard? There are no athletic white guys.


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## Timbaland (Nov 18, 2005)

Any archives of combines? I wouldn't mind seeing Lebron and how others fared. Would be interesting.


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## VTRapsfan (Dec 5, 2004)

Wow, David Noel just locked up a draft spot.
Aldridge = very disappointing...I'm officially off his bandwagon
Brandon Roy has a 40-inch vert. Impressive, but his agility isn't any better than even JJ Redick.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

RaptorsCB4 said:


> but his agility isn't any better than even JJ Redick.



 JJ Reddicks agility is underestimated he can slash but people dont believe he can 'cos of his shooting ability and he is ofcourse very much a whiteboy.


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## Gilgamesh (Dec 23, 2005)

Combine results are rubbish.

What were Wade and Lebron's results? 

I just remember Troy Bell was rated 1st in their draft class. Where is he now?

Combine results don't translate into NBA results.


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

How dare people jump off Aldridge's bandwagon because of the combine tests. Who the hell cares. It has been proven over and over again that these don't matter at all.

Chris Bosh ranked 51st in his class, btw.. that class included LeBron James, Dwyane Wade, and Carmelo Anthony.. guess who was ranked #1? Troy freaking Bell - a guy who is a scrub in europe.


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## Timbaland (Nov 18, 2005)

Yeah some folks are placing way too much emphasis on physical talent. The NBA is full of physical specimens, but its only those who have a special feel for the game and know how to play that succeed.

But I understand where they are coming from, picks would go down alot easier if they were solid in all aspects and it can boost a persons value if they perform well in the combine.


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## VTRapsfan (Dec 5, 2004)

skip_dawg! said:


> JJ Reddicks agility is underestimated he can slash but people dont believe he can 'cos of his shooting ability and he is ofcourse very much a whiteboy.


Yeah, but I think the general perception while they were in college was that Roy was a much better all-around athlete. I'm not saying Redick is slow, just that I expected Roy to be faster.



vigilante said:


> How dare people jump off Aldridge's bandwagon because of the combine tests. Who the hell cares. It has been proven over and over again that these don't matter at all.
> 
> Chris Bosh ranked 51st in his class, btw.. that class included LeBron James, Dwyane Wade, and Carmelo Anthony.. guess who was ranked #1? Troy freaking Bell - a guy who is a scrub in europe.


It's not the combine alone...It's the combine results, the revelation of Bargnani's measurements, and the comments from Aldridge that he doesn't think he has to improve on his weight in the NBA, citing KG as an example. If we draft him I want him to play center, and having him at center with his current physique is not much better than having Bosh there.


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## no_free_baskets (Jan 4, 2006)

i put athleticism as a premium in looking at how a prospects game translate into the nba but i dont think these tests serve as good indicators...every yr we get these funky as* results which we know simply arent true (e.g t.j ford not coming even close to being the quickest player in his draft yr etc, etc...)

but if you insist on using these numbers, i dont get how comparing aldridge to the other top prospects is evidence of anything...all those guys are 6'8 and below, so obviously they will test out better in these kind of tests...

it makes much more sense to me to compare aldridge relatively speaking to guys playing the same position??? if you look at his numbers relatively speaking, they fare actually quite well... he ranks higher then both obryant at (79) and sene, (who is supposed to be an athletic freak) at (72)...aldridge came in at (68)?? so is his test results really that bad???

anyways, i dont put that much stock into this test regardless...but i know from watching guy, its imo that hes more athletic then 80-85% of the bigs playing in the league right now...if you want to question his toughness (aka how soft you think he is) then even thou i dont agree, i can see that argument, but as far as his athleticism, there shouldnt be any kind of concern there...hes a very athletic player for his size...


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## Pain5155 (May 28, 2006)

wheres Bargani, i would expect a 0 beside the bench press.


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

Pain5155 said:


> wheres Bargani, i would expect a 0 beside the bench press.


 Just like I expect a 0 beside the quality of your posts.


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## VTRapsfan (Dec 5, 2004)

Budweiser_Boy said:


> Just like I expect a 0 beside the quality of your posts.


LOL owned...but I do wish Bargs was in the combine. Even though the results are never perfect, they can give a general gauge of a player's athleticism. Just don't go by the overall rank, compare scores in individual categories.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

And now Aldridge is down to 7 on .net on the 19th. Top pick my arse. I know that's a smokescreen.


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## Flush (Jul 25, 2005)

Pain5155 said:


> wheres Bargani


PSSST He's playing in the Euroleague finals and leading his team to the series lead as the underdog.


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## Gilgamesh (Dec 23, 2005)

vigilante said:


> How dare people jump off Aldridge's bandwagon because of the combine tests. Who the hell cares. It has been proven over and over again that these don't matter at all.
> 
> *Chris Bosh ranked 51st *in his class, btw.. that class included LeBron James, Dwyane Wade, and Carmelo Anthony.. guess who was ranked #1? Troy freaking Bell - a guy who is a scrub in europe.


Thanks bud. I was looking for that info.


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## no_free_baskets (Jan 4, 2006)

i dont really put much stock in this particular combine results, but ok, for those who think aldridge is unatheletic based on his combine numbers, lets compare his numbers to the supposed athletic freak, sene...aldridge had a higher overall score and the 2 categories that sene "outperformed" aldridge, the difference were negligable ( no step vertical jump diff. of 2 inches 3/4 sprint diff. of .05 sec)...so i guess if aldridge is unathletic, sene must be to, no???

i think watching this video, i would have to beg to differ: http://www.draftexpress.com/viewarticle.php?a=1358


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## [email protected] (Sep 27, 2005)

Budweiser_Boy said:


> Just like I expect a 0 beside the quality of your posts.


you got 0wn3T


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

> It's not the combine alone...It's the combine results, the revelation of Bargnani's measurements, and the comments from Aldridge that he doesn't think he has to improve on his weight in the NBA, citing KG as an example. If we draft him I want him to play center, and having him at center with his current physique is not much better than having Bosh there.


Aldridge has recently said in a Portland workout that they didn't do bench press at Texas because they emphasized speed and agility. He is currently working to improve his strength, and by looking at him at the Portland workout - he looks stronger, thats for sure.

And I don't care what Aldridge says - he's a center. Howard came into the league thinking he was a four, but has now accepted being the center.



blowuptheraptors said:


> And now Aldridge is down to 7 on .net on the 19th. Top pick my arse. I know that's a smokescreen.


Yeah, because we all know nbadraft.net knows what they're talking about..


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## The Mad Viking (Jun 12, 2003)

I would say that the overall rankings in the combines are the biggest mis-leader.

What you want to do is look at comparables, and look for key factors for certain positions, and balance that with productivity. 

Aldridge did okay for a big. He is not particularly fast, strong, quick, nor a great leaper, even for an big. But neither were any of his results indicative that he couldn't play in the NBA.

Marcus Williams confirmed that his athleticism was as bad as his worst detractors alleged. That and his overweight status start to ring character bells for me, when added to his college problems. If he can't work out for this, what will he be like when he has a $2mil contract? I wouldn't touch him with a 10 foot pole.

For PGs, you want to see speed and quickness. Their hops and bench press are far less important.

For scoring guards, you are looking for all-around numbers.

Amundson is faster and quicker than Rudy Gay! Another white guy busting the stereotype. He will now likely be a late first rounder, at worst an early 2nd.

Saer Sane's 3/4 court sprint is sick for a 7 footer. Even if it's below average overall.

Frans Steyn is going to make it in the NBA. He probably is a better prospect than Aaron Gray, although Gray may be drafted and Steyn may not. Steyn has very good feet for a guy 7-1.

JJ Redick's athleticism will help him more than his DWI hurt him. He's quick, pretty fast, and has decent ups.

My sleeper pick, Morris Almond, did very well. He will play in the NBA, although he might go the way of Marquis Daniels.

Hilton Armstrong is slow. His stock fell big time. 

David Noel will get drafted and can be an energy guy and a defensive specialist.

Cedric Simmons locked up a lottery spot, when you combine his productivity with his length and his very good athleticism for a big.

Curtis Withers should get drafted. Productive combo forward (terrific rebounder who can score inside and with jumper) with legit NBA athleticism.

Marco Killingsworth should get drafted.(!) He has the same wingspan and reach as Shelden Williams; is quicker and faster than Shelden, but with an inch less ups; outplayed SW head to head in NCAA.
Paul Millsap is also a comparable athlete, with a little better standing reach and a little less wingspan. Pops Mensah-Bonsu has the same measurements as Millsap and is the best athlete of the four of them!

I don't know why Daniel Horton is not a draft prospect. He has 5.3 apg, 2 spg, 16+ ppg with 40% treys and 90% FTs in a tough conference. Plus he is a phenomenal athlete, with the same length as Randy Foye.

And here is a word of caution on combine results. Patrick O'Bryant and Aaron Gray put up extremely similar numbers. Anyone who watched Bradley's upset of Pitt would swear on everything they care about that O'Bryant was much faster and quicker. My read in hindsight is that he was more decisive and aggressive, which put Gray on his heels and then into foul trouble. Plus, he has longer arms, and while they may have the same very, O'Bryant has what the call "quick ups". Gray does not. They don't measure how long you wind up for your jump, do they?


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

The Mad Viking said:


> I would say that the overall rankings in the combines are the biggest mis-leader.
> 
> What you want to do is look at comparables, and look for key factors for certain positions, and balance that with productivity.
> 
> ...



great post and good insight... i gotta agree with marcus williams the dude should be ignored for definate.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

vigilante said:


> Aldridge has recently said in a Portland workout that they didn't do bench press at Texas because they emphasized speed and agility. He is currently working to improve his strength, and by looking at him at the Portland workout - he looks stronger, thats for sure.
> 
> And I don't care what Aldridge says - he's a center. Howard came into the league thinking he was a four, but has now accepted being the center.
> 
> ...


You wanted Gerald Green right? What happened to that solo workout wonder?


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## Gilgamesh (Dec 23, 2005)

blowuptheraptors said:


> You wanted Gerald Green right? What happened to that solo workout wonder?


I thought Green looked good when he got a chance to *play*. It's hard to get minutes when you're just coming out of HS and playing behind Pierce/Wally/Davis.

We can't judge a player like Green yet until a couple years anyways.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

i still don't get how james white and rondo passed up on this. i guess they were too busy with workouts?


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

blowuptheraptors said:


> You wanted Gerald Green right? What happened to that solo workout wonder?


Was he a 7'0 footer that projected to be number one?

Don't think Gerald Green's drop was solely due to the solo workouts..


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