# Marbury may move to the 2, thinks Jamal is a 'killer'



## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

> He expects to lead a Knicks team that will be significantly different, even though it has added only two new bodies to the rotation (Jamal Crawford, Jerome Williams). Crawford is enough, Marbury said. It will be a special tandem, he predicts.
> 
> "I think that's going to be great," he said. "We got another disher on the court, a guy who can do a lot of the same things I do. I can move to the two guard. It's like having another killer on the court."
> 
> ...


http://www.nj.com/sports/ledger/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/109531021587570.xml


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>GB</b>!
> 
> 
> http://www.nj.com/sports/ledger/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/109531021587570.xml


What i love is he's saying all this after probably spending all summer playing street ball with Jamal, just wait untill the season starts and teams are gonna be scoring all over that back court, no diss to jamals offensive game , even dough if your a freaking 6-6 pg you should be able to back down players like Tyrone Lue! But anyways offense is not Jamals Problem its his defense.


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## Chi_Lunatic (Aug 20, 2002)

*Re: Re: Marbury may move to the 2, thinks Jamal is a 'killer'*



> Originally posted by <b>thebizkit69u</b>!
> 
> 
> What i love is he's saying all this after probably spending all summer playing street ball with Jamal, just wait untill the season starts and teams are gonna be scoring all over that back court, no diss to jamals offensive game , even dough if your a freaking 6-6 pg you should be able to back down players like Tyrone Lue! But anyways offense is not Jamals Problem its his defense.


I remember when the bulls played the bucks how crawford BEGGED coach to take him off T.J FORD cuz he was burning him.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: Re: Marbury may move to the 2, thinks Jamal is a 'killer'*



> Originally posted by <b>thebizkit69u</b>!
> 
> 
> What i love is he's saying all this after probably spending all summer playing street ball with Jamal, just wait untill the season starts and teams are gonna be scoring all over that back court, no diss to jamals offensive game , even dough if your a freaking 6-6 pg you should be able to back down players like Tyrone Lue! But anyways offense is not Jamals Problem its his defense.


is that where stephon was spending his summer? i could have sworn he was team usa in greece.


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## Kuskid (Aug 18, 2004)

*Re: Re: Re: Marbury may move to the 2, thinks Jamal is a 'killer'*



> Originally posted by <b>happygrinch</b>!
> 
> 
> is that where stephon was spending his summer? i could have sworn he was team usa in greece.


:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Ouchh. That's why I've quickly learned to read my posts over two or three times before posting.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

The Marbury/Crawford tandem will be fun to watch.

Its kinda like Hinrich/Gordon... except a lot better.


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## Hustle (Dec 17, 2003)

I don't know how much better Marbury/Crawford will be than Gordon/Hinrich. I think that Hinrich and Gordon are already both better than Crawford (because defense is half the game). Hinrich will out play Jamal almost everyday (except when Jamal is having one of those nights where he can hit the fade away three, which does happen just not often.) That leaves Marbury vs. Gordon, now nobody knows what to expect out of Gordon but either way he's going to loose this matchup, but Gordon is already a better defender than Marbury so he should get a lot of baskets back for the Bulls. Overall I give only a slight edge to the Knicks and that's mostly due to more experiance on the Knicks side not more talent.

Yeah the Knicks back court might tool on the Bulls but what will NY about Hamilton, Wade, or S Jackson (the 2's that Crawford or Marbury have to worry about in the playoffs)


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## fleetwood macbull (Jan 23, 2004)

Crawbug II
only Marbury is ready, and Jay wasn't. Could be good


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## Bolts (Nov 7, 2003)

I am looking forward to that first Bulls/Knicks game. I wonder how much Hinrich will guard Crawford. It will be interesting.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

When Jamal Crawford is all busting out in New York instead of being put behind an undeserving player and forced out of position, ill laugh at you all. "Oh, my gosh every young player we trade ends up busting out wherever else they go" I'll tell you what this trade is all about. Ben Gordon is his boy too just like Hinrich. He traded Crawford who I think would be much better at shooting guard this year after a year of experience so Ben Gordon another point guard trying to play shooting guard. Hmmm remember when we tried this last year....what happened? Trade Kirk for a shooting guard. Play these point guards at the natural position. Trading Hinrich for Mason like suggested would make the Bulls into a playoff team. Why? we actually have our positions filled. Fool me once shame on you (Brand), fool me twice shame on you (Artest), fool me three times shame on you (Miller), fool me four times shame on you (Rose) fool me five times shame on you (Marshall) fool me 6th times shame on me (Crawford) our administration sucks. First Krause then Paxson making good drafts and then losing what we gained in a stupid trade. BJ Armstrong is the man. We need to think twice about certain trades. If the other gm is so excited about a trade, i wonder what that means. Get everyone together actually let a team grow together and lets actually get in the playoffs.


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## Johnny Mac (May 6, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>The Great Twinkee</b>!
> When Jamal Crawford is all busting out in New York instead of being put behind an undeserving player and forced out of position, ill laugh at you all. *"Oh, my gosh every young player we trade ends up busting out wherever else they go"* I'll tell you what this trade is all about. Ben Gordon is his boy too just like Hinrich. He traded Crawford who I think would be much better at shooting guard this year after a year of experience so Ben Gordon another point guard trying to play shooting guard. Hmmm remember when we tried this last year....what happened? Trade Kirk for a shooting guard. Play these point guards at the natural position. *Trading Hinrich for Mason like suggested would make the Bulls into a playoff team.* Why? we actually have our positions filled. Fool me once shame on you (Brand), fool me twice shame on you (Artest), fool me three times shame on you (Miller), fool me four times shame on you (Rose) fool me five times shame on you (Marshall) fool me 6th times shame on me (Crawford) our administration sucks. First Krause then Paxson making good drafts and then losing what we gained in a stupid trade. BJ Armstrong is the man. We need to think twice about certain trades. If the other gm is so excited about a trade, i wonder what that means. Get everyone together actually let a team grow together and lets actually get in the playoffs.


Then watch Kirk become a star somewhere else? Fool me, what is it, 7 times now? Shame on you. You dont trade proven players to make room for rookies, its just that simple.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Johnny Mac</b>!
> 
> 
> Then watch Kirk become a star somewhere else? Fool me, what is it, 7 times now? Shame on you. You dont trade proven players to make room for rookies, its just that simple.


Notice that Desmond Mason is a actual shooting guard. This isn't trading a guy so that an out of position player can get more playing time there. Ben Gordon is either going to be unready at point guard or unready at shooting guard. Desmond Mason actually fills the swing man that we've needed. This isn't just trading a guy so one guy can get more playing time we get a good player in return that actually fills a need, definitely not the same.


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## Hustle (Dec 17, 2003)

Also notice Mason cannot hit the broad side of a barn, we cannot have a starting 2 that can't shoot as long as Curry and Chandler are the future of the team, Mason will get left wide open, Curry doubled or tripled ( and I say this being a huge Des fan, huge).
I think Mason has got to be on the best possible team for him right now they just run and when teams get back run a little offense until Redd is open.

A basketball player is a basketball player the question is what skills do you bring to the table. Gordon is only 6'1-6'2 but his wingspan is 6'10"[email protected] That is a little better than average for a 2.

Would anyone have a problem with Baron Davis at 2 (the comparision) how about Wesley? Iverson? Wade? now Marbury or Crawford? 

Then I could add Leonard, Kittles, D.Anderson, Snyder or Giricek, whoever Charlotte and New Jersey has, ........ just off the top my head will all get burned by Gordon.

No question he is not the ideal 2 (Jordan) but he has the skills to get it done in todays NBA


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## Johnny Mac (May 6, 2003)

Its still a ridiculous trade, if it was Michael Redd, then we'll talk. Desmond Mason isnt even a top 20 shooting guard and hes in his prime, Kirk is coming off his rookie season and is already a top 10-15 point guard and is more effective than Mason. 

Its good to trade for needs and balance out the roster, but doing so shouldnt require you to make bad trades. 

If anything, Gordon for Mason would be a pretty nice trade. Their value is closer, and of course we'd be able to keep our best point guard. Even then, I'd wait to see how good Gordon is before I looked to trade him. 

I'm pretty comfortable with our team right now, the only problem I foresee is guards defense and defense as a whole because if Curry cant provide a great defensive presence.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

I'm just going to say that I like what I see out of Ben Gordon from what I saw of him in college far more from what I saw in Hinrich *hinrich still did hell good in college* they both had similiar teams though big-small for both. Travis Diener is my darkhorse for next years draft. I think he is underated and he would be a 2nd round steal since he is white and not hyped. Not being a racist this is just how things are.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

Crawford and Marbury should be a really interesting tandem. Say what you want to about street ball, but if the two of them are compatible, the Knicks might all of a sudden become very fun to watch. 

One thing that's interesting about the two of them is that they're both very streaky offensive players. We know about Jamal, and if you watched all the olympics you're aware of just how bad or good Marbury can be on a given day. Well, if at least one of them is hot each night and the other is willing to get them the ball, they could be very effective. And if they're both on, watch out!


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## MichaelOFAZ (Jul 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>GB</b>!
> 
> 
> http://www.nj.com/sports/ledger/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/109531021587570.xml


 :yes: LOL :vbanana: 

Expect a lot of these types of messages from me this upcoming season. I tried to tell everyone that JC was a special player and that his true position was at PG. But no one would listen to me. Now one of the best PGs in the Eastern Conference is openly and eagerly willing to concede his position to Craw? Marbury and Houston are both excited about JC joining the Knick squad. And there will definitely be a buzz in NYC this basketball season. The Bulls are simply losers.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

*Re: Re: Marbury may move to the 2, thinks Jamal is a 'killer'*



> Originally posted by <b>MichaelOFAZ</b>!
> 
> 
> :yes: LOL :vbanana:
> ...


Hmm, what motivation might Marbury have for saying something like this besides the fact that he just likes Crawford's game?

Ah, yes, he wants to shoot more.

MichaelOFAZ (by the way, I'm now DMDOFAZ), we know what you think of Jamal, but obviously the premise of playing with another combo guard should be intriguing to Marbury, but it is possible his own agenda is fueling these compliments.


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## Pan Mengtu (Jun 18, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Johnny Mac</b>!
> Its still a ridiculous trade, if it was Michael Redd, then we'll talk. Desmond Mason isnt even a top 20 shooting guard and hes in his prime, Kirk is coming off his rookie season and is already a top 10-15 point guard and is more effective than Mason.


Since when are 26 year olds who've been in the league 4 years (and improved their statlines every year) "in their prime"?


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## Pan Mengtu (Jun 18, 2004)

:laugh: 


I really start to worry about the league when people are raving about ball-hog guards who shoot 38% from the field.


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## MichaelOFAZ (Jul 9, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Marbury may move to the 2, thinks Jamal is a 'killer'*



> Originally posted by <b>Darius Miles Davis</b>!
> 
> 
> Hmm, what motivation might Marbury have for saying something like this besides the fact that he just likes Crawford's game?
> ...


Wass up fellow Arizonan! While your theory about Marbury complimenting JC to get him to feed him the ball more often, while plausible is not very logical. First I never heard Steph say anything like that when he played for the Nets or the Suns. As a PG and leader of the team doesn't he pretty much have the ability to shoot or dish at his discretion? And if shooting was his concern, then why would he explicitly state that shooting would be Alan's primary role? As hard as it is to believe, I think he recognizes that JC is very good player who can everyone around him better. And mark my words, you'll see more Knick highlights on Sports Center this season than you have in the last five. The Knicks will be exciting to watch.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Marbury may move to the 2, thinks Jamal is a 'killer'*



> Originally posted by <b>MichaelOFAZ</b>!
> 
> 
> Wass up fellow Arizonan! While your theory about Marbury complimenting JC to get him to feed him the ball more often, while plausible is not very logical. First I never heard Steph say anything like that when he played for the Nets or the Suns. As a PG and leader of the team doesn't he pretty much have the ability to shoot or dish at his discretion? And if shooting was his concern, then why would he explicitly state that shooting would be Alan's primary role? As hard as it is to believe, I think he recognizes that JC is very good player who can everyone around him better. And mark my words, you'll see more Knick highlights on Sports Center this season than you have in the last five. The Knicks will be exciting to watch.


I don't think Steph is complimenting Jamal in order to convince him to pass him the ball. I'm just guessing that in his mind he would like to shoot the ball more, and having a tall combo guard next to him is the perfect situation for Steph. So of course he's happy. But is he happy for the right or the wrong reasons?

In any case, I agree that Steph and Jamal will be exciting. Now it will be interesting to see if they can win.


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## MichaelOFAZ (Jul 9, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Marbury may move to the 2, thinks Jamal is a 'killer'*



> Originally posted by <b>Darius Miles Davis</b>!
> 
> 
> I don't think Steph is complimenting Jamal in order to convince him to pass him the ball. I'm just guessing that in his mind he would like to shoot the ball more, and having a tall combo guard next to him is the perfect situation for Steph. So of course he's happy. But is he happy for the right or the wrong reasons?
> ...


Good points. You make some good points. I guess time will tell. I just can't wait to hear all of the excuses Bull apologists come up as they watch yet another Krause draftee or acquisition go to another team and flourish. You'll hear things like, "The chemistry wasn't right" or "He wasn't coachable". Mark my words you'll hear every excuse imaginable. But at the end of the season, the Bulls be one of worst teams in the league. Brand? Artest? Brad Miller? Hassell? Now JC. It's a pattern that can't be argued.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

what stuck out to me is that Stephon in only a few months figured out what we never figured out--Jamal thrives in the open court.

So what's Steph want to do?
Run.

Craziness. I wonder if Steph's been talking to Dabullz?


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>futuristxen</b>!
> what stuck out to me is that Stephon in only a few months figured out what we never figured out--Jamal thrives in the open court.
> 
> So what's Steph want to do?
> ...


It's funny how we never learned how to run under any of our last three coaches. Honestly I thought we should have gotten out and ran when Jay was our point guard. I think he was easily in the top 5 in the league in terms of baseline to baseline speed dribbling the ball. And for some reason, he never got to do it with the Bulls. We just got to see him whiz by a few times in the rookie/sophomore game and wonder why we didn't see more of it.

Jamal and Tyson too could have benefited greatly by running. And it's not like we didn't rebound the ball well enough last year.


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## BealeFarange (May 22, 2004)

saying Gordon is BETTER than Crawford is absolutely INSANE. 

HE HASN'T PLAYED ONE MINUTE.

I hope JC burns the Bulls.


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## MichaelOFAZ (Jul 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BealeFarange</b>!
> saying Gordon is BETTER than Crawford is absolutely INSANE.
> 
> HE HASN'T PLAYED ONE MINUTE.
> ...


Ditto and your wish will come true.


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## WhoDaBest23 (Apr 16, 2003)

I think the combo of Jamal and Marbury is gonna be a good one, or at least I hope it will be. It's gonna be cool to catch some of their games together.


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## Johnny Mac (May 6, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Pan Mengtu</b>!
> Since when are 26 year olds who've been in the league 4 years (and improved their statlines every year) "in their prime"?


He hasnt really improved his rebounding and passing since he came into the league. His scoring has gone from 12.4 to 14.4 in three seasons. Thats not very large improvement, and in most areas, theres no improvement at all, and 26 is prime nowadays.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

*Re: Re: Re: Marbury may move to the 2, thinks Jamal is a 'killer'*



> Originally posted by <b>happygrinch</b>!
> 
> 
> is that where stephon was spending his summer? i could have sworn he was team usa in greece.


 Yeah your right Marbury was to busy stinking it up in greece to share a wonderfull summer in rucker park with JC and possibly the proffesor or high lite real something, or skip to my lue whatever.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BealeFarange</b>!
> saying Gordon is BETTER than Crawford is absolutely INSANE.
> 
> HE HASN'T PLAYED ONE MINUTE.
> ...


 I hope Kirk dominates and drops a thriple double on NY this year, and i belive with the team hes got this year he can, with Curry,Deng,Gordon,Noccini iam pretty sure he can do it against NY.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Marbury may move to the 2, thinks Jamal is a 'killer'*



> Originally posted by <b>thebizkit69u</b>!
> 
> 
> Yeah your right Marbury was to busy stinking it up in greece to share a wonderfull summer in rucker park with JC and possibly the proffesor or high lite real something, or skip to my lue whatever.


did you even see the rucker this year ?

my guess is you didn't because crawford wasn't there , heck the team he was on last year wasn't even there , and the only marbury that was there was zach, stephon's younger brother.

way to rag on an olympian with absolutely no credibility to do it whatsoever ...are you scott skiles?


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Marbury may move to the 2, thinks Jamal is a 'killer'*



> Originally posted by <b>happygrinch</b>!
> 
> 
> did you even see the rucker this year ?
> ...


For the love of god, when i said that Marbury probably fell in love with JC was in streetball was kinda a mocking thing to say, not a serius statement, I am just joking around at how much Marbury is praising JC's game, jeesh. And common more then half of the people on here wanted Marbury hanged after the olympics.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

I agree with Michael and all of the sentiment that Jamal is going to excel in NY. Isaiah knows Jamal is a player, thats why he paid him, Marbury knows Jamal is a player, thats why he is willing to move over to sg & let Jamal distribute which he is very good at. 

I also agree that a lot of people will be wondering "how we let Jamal get away" and we will hear a chorus of "the chemistry wasn't right" or "Jamal didn't try here" or "he wouldn't have resigned" the one constant in Chicago post dynasty basketball is the bevy of excuses we have for letting good players gey away. Ironic that the team slogan was "no excuses", seems like "excuses aplenty" would be more appropriate. 

Jamal is NOT a streetballer. I'll say it again for the umpteenth time. Jamal played in ONE streetball tournament, Curry did too until he hurt his eye, and he took his team all the way to the finals against S. Carter. Of course some teamates didn't show up because there was a blackout and issues, but Jamal was there and ready to ball. Jamal ONLY recieved his street cred name "true essence" when he played streetball at ruckers that one summer. A LOT of guys have played at the EBC; Kobe, Mike Dunleavy Jr., Theo Ratliff, Smush Parker, Stephon Marbury, Shawn Marion. The EBC is NOT AND1, those guys want to win so don't confuse it. In any case, Jamal played ONE year, he is NOT a streetballer, he is an NBA player that played streetball one summer and got labeled by a faction of people who dislike him and his game. In truth, Jamal is a student of the game, he loves watching vintage NBA tapes and wears his headband in memory of former star Slick Watts. Jamal doesn't even play video games for crying out loud! There is just a large contingent that thinks he has no game and wants to drag his name through the mud at every opportunity. Jamal is still growing as a player...but I feel very confident that a lot of people are going to realize what me and some other people have been talking about come next season.


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## Chi_Lunatic (Aug 20, 2002)

I don't know who'll win the JAMAL vs BEN matchup but I can gurantee Gordon will take him off the dribble EASILY. Jamal can't handle smaller, faster guards.


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Marbury may move to the 2, thinks Jamal is a 'killer'*



> Originally posted by <b>happygrinch</b>!
> 
> 
> did you even see the rucker this year ?


Can't keep tellin' him to talk about Rucker,
Matter of fact, he don't wanna speak about the Rucker,
Not even Pee-Wee Kirkland could imagine this,
His *edit* didn't have to play to win the championship.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Marbury may move to the 2, thinks Jamal is a 'killer'*



> Originally posted by <b>ScottMay</b>!
> 
> 
> Can't keep tellin' him to talk about Rucker,
> ...


sup Fat Joe?  

All I know is that Jamal was there for the S. Carter team to play for the championship, I don't know what the hell happened to his teamates, I am sure if there were 4 others that showed up they would have given it a go.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

*jamal was let go because....*

The Bulls are a trash organization.

Brand.
Artest.
Miller.
Crawford.

For what? Chandler is the only "asset" we have to show for these 3 all-stars and 1 productive player.

Its absolutly shocking that people think that this gang of 21 year olds the Bulls have slopped together will even sniff the playoffs.

This team is going to get reamed on a nightly basis. 

(i'm in a foul mood today)


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Marbury may move to the 2, thinks Jamal is a 'killer'*



> Originally posted by <b>thebizkit69u</b>!
> 
> 
> Yeah your right Marbury was to busy stinking it up in greece


Guess who set the all-time US men's record for points in a game, while he was stinking it up?


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BealeFarange</b>!
> 
> 
> I hope JC burns the Bulls.


OT:


Question: Are you a Bulls fan or a Knick fan?

I can't imagine a Bulls fan hoping his team gets smoked, thats all.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Marbury may move to the 2, thinks Jamal is a 'killer'*



> Originally posted by <b>futuristxen</b>!
> 
> 
> Guess who set the all-time US men's record for points in a game, while he was stinking it up?



Did he bring home the gold?


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

I want to see Jamal drop a 50 spot on us...
but we still win. And Nocioni plants Marbury on his back. Before going fugayzi on Tim Thomas.

I love Jamal, but as a Bulls fan there is no way in hell I'm rooting for the Knicks.


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## Johnny Mac (May 6, 2003)

If Crawford drops 40 the night before the Knicks play the Bulls, atleast we'll know that he'll probably have one of those 3/18 nights against us.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>futuristxen</b>!
> I want to see Jamal drop a 50 spot on us...
> but we still win.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Marbury may move to the 2, thinks Jamal is a 'killer'*



> Originally posted by <b>futuristxen</b>!
> 
> 
> Guess who set the all-time US men's record for points in a game, while he was stinking it up?


 well iam glad you judge someones performance by one game where he scored like crazy, with those amazing skills i bet team usa won the gold, No wait the silver right, umm no.. bronze yes got it! Its not about scoring beacuse if it was we all know Jordan could have easily averaged 50 ppg when he played in the olympics but it was team concept.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>ace20004u</b>!
> he is NOT a streetballer, he is an NBA player that played streetball one summer and got labeled by a faction of people who dislike him and his game. In truth, Jamal is a student of the game, he loves watching vintage NBA tapes


 Ok well he doesnt play vintage for one, he plays like a steetballer, its more then just a faction of people that belive he plays like a streetballer, hes a scorer and not a defender, sounds like a streetballer to me. And just because he watches Vintage NBA tapes doesnt mean hes the next comming of pistol pete or west.


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## dkg1 (May 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>futuristxen</b>!
> I want to see Jamal drop a 50 spot on us...
> but we still win. And Nocioni plants Marbury on his back. Before going fugayzi on Tim Thomas.
> 
> I love Jamal, but as a Bulls fan there is no way in hell I'm rooting for the Knicks.


Well I'm glad you're at least rooting for the Bulls. Do you think JC can get enough shots within the NY offense to go for 50? I don't see any possible way. Too many guys who need the ball on that team. Personally, as much as some of you are hoping he blows up in NY and sticks it to the Bulls, I'm hoping he falls on his face and has a miserable stay in NY.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>thebizkit69u</b>!
> 
> 
> Ok well he doesnt play vintage for one, he plays like a steetballer, its more then just a faction of people that belive he plays like a streetballer, hes a scorer and not a defender, sounds like a streetballer to me. And just because he watches Vintage NBA tapes doesnt mean hes the next comming of pistol pete or west.


A streetballer is someone who made their way up playing through the street circuit. Jamal didn't do that, instead he mentored under Gary Payton, went to Michigan, and of course with the Bulls. I agree there are holes in Jamal's game but what the "Jamal haters" keep forgetting is that he isn't fully developed yet, he is far from hitting his ceiling. And Jamals defense improved a lot last season, there is no reason to think that it won't continue to improve. And on the vintage games....maybe you should bust out some archives, a lot of people have this idealized version of the past, like all the teams played such great team ball. The reality is that there were a lot of stars that carried their teams. The difference is Jamal was forced into carrying a team before he was even ready.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ace20004u</b>!
> he mentored under Gary Payton


...for all the good that did him.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>GB</b>!
> 
> 
> ...for all the good that did him.


it did him a lot of good. He's not finished developing yet, you will see.


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## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

"Mentored under Gary Payton"

Ummm, you DO realize that Payton is a huge Pud, right? And IMO, a "streetballer" is someone that knows very little about basketball fundamentals, or knows of them but refuses to employ them.

Also, a "streetballer" is mostly a shot jacker that is usually un-coachable. As is the case with Jamal.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ace20004u</b>!
> 
> 
> it did him a lot of good.


Garys hallmark was being The Glove...a defender.

No impact on Jamal "Windburned" Crawford.


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## TRUTHHURTS (Mar 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Shinky</b>!
> "Mentored under Gary Payton"
> 
> Ummm, you DO realize that Payton is a huge Pud, right? And IMO, a "streetballer" is someone that knows very little about basketball fundamentals, or knows of them but refuses to employ them.
> ...


Thankyou for letting everyone know that you have no clue WHAT streetball is .


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## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>GB</b>!
> 
> 
> Garys hallmark was being The Glove...a defender.
> ...


LOL! That is a good point. I never even thought about that.


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## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>TRUTHHURTS</b>!
> 
> 
> Thankyou for letting everyone know that you have no clue WHAT streetball is .


Yeah, because god knows there's a TON of coaching going on in those lame *** games!

Get real. Streetball is GARBAGE. It has NO PLACE IN THE NBA. It's a game that glorifies a sole player, and has nothing to do with playing in a gameset, or playing with a team mentality.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Shinky</b>!
> 
> 
> Yeah, because god knows there's a TON of coaching going on in those lame *** games!
> ...


It will be interesting to see how this Bulls team filled with players that play the "right" way fares this season. 

Will the "right" way work? Stay tuned!


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## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>kukoc4ever</b>!
> 
> 
> It will be interesting to see how this Bulls team filled with players that play the "right" way fares this season.
> ...


I have more faith in this hardworking, coachable team than I did with last seasons riff raff.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Shinky</b>!
> 
> 
> I have more faith in this hardworking, coachable team than I did with last seasons riff raff.


The question is.... will your faith be rewarded with wins?


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>kukoc4ever</b>!
> 
> 
> The question is.... will your faith be rewarded with wins?


Doesn't have to be.

Just have to be a vast improvement in attitude, basketball aptitude, effort and consistency while showing a roadway to wins in the near future.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>GB</b>!
> 
> 
> Doesn't have to be.
> ...


Since wins don't matter this team should have little trouble meeting your expectations!


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>kukoc4ever</b>!
> this team should have little trouble meeting your expectations!


Don't take me out of context. Wins matter.

But they've also got to show some important growth and some basketball 'qualities' too.


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## TRUTHHURTS (Mar 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Shinky</b>!
> 
> 
> Yeah, because god knows there's a TON of coaching going on in those lame *** games!
> ...



Where is streetball in the NBA today ? Do you think the AND1 tour invented the behind the back pass or the dunk or a between the leg dribble ?What was magic or bird doing with a behind the back pass ?or Pistol pete with the great ball fake ?or MJ getting fouled and turning completly around and regularly tossing the ball up over his head attempting to get a 3pt play .

You continue to ramble on with this prejudiced nonsense .Streetball is just a modern version of the globetrotters.


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## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

Just look at the majority of that Olympic team we sent over to Greece, and you'll see where "streetball" has infiltrated the NBA.

"You continue to ramble on with this prejudiced nonsense .Streetball is just a modern version of the globetrotters."

I give the trotters a little credit. They could at least shoot the ball.


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## TRUTHHURTS (Mar 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Shinky</b>!
> Just look at the majority of that Olympic team we sent over to Greece, and you'll see where "streetball" has infiltrated the NBA.
> 
> "You continue to ramble on with this prejudiced nonsense .Streetball is just a modern version of the globetrotters."
> ...



Who on that team besides Marbury and Matrix have you heard playing in any place besides a nba event ?

Ai ?
Duncan ?
Amare ?
Wade ?

none of those guys play streetball you just place your biased views on them so that you can appear to have a legit reason to trash them but you dont .


So now since the globetrotters could shoot they are not considered to be a form of streetball ?Have you ever seen the globetrotters ?How many 3pt shots a game do they take ?


The sole purpose of those games are to entertain the crowd with basketball tricks and thats it youre not making any sense with this stuff.

For the record I would bet you every guard in the league can do a good majority of the stuff you see on And1 and streetball tapes INCLUDING your golden boy Hinrich .There is no need to hate it because you dont understand it.


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## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

"Who on that team besides Marbury and Matrix have you heard playing in any place besides a nba event ?"

Did I say the play in streetball events?

No. But there are players on that team that play a streetball style, that's for damn sure. And this is exactly why we lost over there. 

Understand streetball? What the hell is there to understand? The old bounce the ball off your opponents head? Maybe I dont get the insults to ones mother while they play the game? 

Give me a break. It's not frigging rocket science.

It's an un-disciplined form of basketball that appeals to those that for the most part, dont like to be coached. They just want to play "their way" and make highlight reels. 

That is the entire mentality that needs to be changed in today's NBA.


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## TRUTHHURTS (Mar 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Shinky</b>!
> 
> Did I say the play in streetball events?
> 
> ...


You make absolutely NO SENSE 

You basically toss the streetball tag on whatever players you dont like even if theyve never played streetball .

Its a traveling basketball show its not a league :laugh: 

It has nothing to do with coaching its pure entertainment for basketball fans during basketball OFFSEASON .

I have a feeling I know why you really dont like them but its really no need to go there Im done with this topic .


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## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>TRUTHHURTS</b>!
> 
> 
> You make absolutely NO SENSE
> ...


I make no sense?

"I have a feeling I know why you really dont like them but its really no need to go there Im done with this topic "

Ahhh. the old "race card". That is pathetic. It has nothing to do with that at all.

All I have to do is quote Allen Iverson after the US lost in that tourney;

"They play the game the way it's supposed to be played" was what he said about one of the teams that beat the US.

And AGAIN, I am NOT SAYING THAT THEY PLAY IN STREETBALL TOURNEYS. Why is this so hard to understand? They DO have a streetball style that has hurt the NBA. As Iversons own quote backs my thoughts on this matter up.


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## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

* no insults towards other posters *


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## Salvaged Ship (Jul 10, 2002)

"Streetball" is an interesting term. It very much describes the mentality of many young american basketballers who never seem to mature, never seem to get their priorities straight. No longer are sporting events simply won by the team with the best athletes. Rightfully so, the "team"aspect in sports seems to now be overcoming athletic ability. It is why some sports once domintated by us Americans are now a struggle to win.

It seems like video games, television commercials, moronic movies, fashion statements, and getting on Sportscenter highlights are more important than playing the game the right way and winning. Everyone wants to be the hero, the star player, the "Jordan". Not only that, they want the exposure, the dollars. Agents telling young players how to posture, what to do to rake as much in as possible. 

Being a winner and team player isn't enough. Forget just basketball, you need to do a rap album as well. Give off an image like you are some tough street punk. Cover yourself with tatoos, dress stupid, get that wild hair thing going. It's like your in high school, showing off to all the teenagers. 

Teenagers you say? Let's make sure you can come into the draft out of high school. This is ruining young american ballers who do not have the mental maturity, physical strength, or basketball knowledge to even compete with older players. 

My favorite games to watch are the old Lakers/Celtics games in the 80's. Intense, talented, team oriented win at all costs ball players with heart. MJ and the Bulls carried in on in the 90's, but since then it has been downhill.

The draft must have an age limit. Kids must be tutored to play the right way. Established players need to act completely professional and set an example for the young kids. Will it happen? Probably not.

The U.S. team took bronze in the olympics. Next time it may be no medal.

What does this have to do with Crawford? He seems to be a nice kid, but does fall into some of the categories described above. Learned the game like a "streetballer", came into the NBA immature, still very immature, clueless about what it takes to win. Talented, but lacks so much more.

I think Isiah was a lousy coach, and also is a lousy judge of talent. There is a reason why he was the only one to aggressively pursue Crawford. No one else wanted to spend big bucks on him.

I will take Hinrich and Gordon over Crawford any day. It was for the best for the Bulls, and also for the best for Crawford. He had no hope here, either.


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## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

Sinkingship, that was a fantastic post.

I must add though, that I thought the Pistons of this past season played a ton of old school style ball. It was the big reason why I watched the entire playoffs.

Again, good post. You pretty much said what I was trying to say, but obviously having a rough go at it.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

people like to clamor over the "streetball' term , while basically getting wrong its meaning and not caring that they are wrong , which is pretty ignorant.

a flashy style of basketball is not streetball , its just an expression during a game , jamal crawford is not any more streetballish than kobe bryant , what kobe is , is a more effective basketball player , in fact if i were to use streetball in the way that most of the uninformed seem to use it , kobe is by far the streetball tryp player , he does more flashy dunks and plays with more all-around flair and lets not forget the selfishness and immaturity that permeates his game to such a point he had to be the main attraction on his team , even if it meant his team would not be a title contender anymore.

flashy play has been apart of the nba for a very long time and the line often blurs for some people where they dont know where streetball begins and ends in the nba , I simplify it for those people .

its not in the nba , streetball players aren't allowed in because the nba is a game of conformity and structure and it is at complete odds with that kind of game.

the best streetball player of our time rafer alston didn't get into the nba because streetball , he got in off of his ability shown at fresno st. as a 2nd round pick, the nba is not interested in rafer alston the streetballer and it never has been.

jamal crawford has not done anything close to this. he has a good crossover and he uses it , its no different than any other crossover that is used by any other player , its not an illegal move he just does it better than most , earl monroe was flashy and had a spin move , that he also incidently used in playground games ....did that make it a streetball move?

most people with common sense say no , but a still very legal crossover , a move that any coach worth his salt will teach young player who doesn't have one , is street.

a mentality which is being blamed on some is not their fault , they play the way they do and if someone comes along and he plays "the right way" and does that way better than that is all that should count, who plays better, its not stephon marbury's fault that there aren't more pass 1st pg's better than him, he is a good player playing the way he does , if there was someone better to take his spot then thats what would happen.

you dont like the way the team usa team was constructed , well neither do I , i have a problem with anyteam without a true center and only one point guard but 5 small forwards on its roster, not because of a streetball mentality , because i didn't see any players showing the charcteristics that people tend to atribute to streetballers , i saw a team that tended to overpass , instead of passing too infrequently , a team that can shoot but had a bad 2 weeks shooting the ball , it happens i've seen wade , marbury & iverson play before and they are far better shooters than they showed in greece. 

if you are going to blame the highlight shows it should be done knowing its not done as a guidebook to urban america (or african americans or whatever) 12% of the american population on flashy play its done for the majority who have proven they would rather watch a flashy move in a highlight than a bounce pass.

allen iverson may do a nice move, but he doesn't choose it to be on sportcenter , that decision is made in bristol conn. by someone i am quite sure isn't entrenched in the world of streetball, and its not done with iverson's feelings on the subject in mind.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>happygrinch</b>!
> jamal crawford has not done anything close to this. he has a good crossover and he uses it , its no different than any other crossover that is used by any other player , its not an illegal move he just does it better than most , earl monroe was flashy and had a spin move , that he also incidently used in playground games ....did that make it a streetball move?
> 
> most people with common sense say no , but a still very legal crossover , a move that any coach worth his salt will teach young player who doesn't have one , is street.


As far as I'm concerned, most "sick" crossovers and spin moves should be called for travelling or double dribble, as the moves virtually always involve palming or carrying the ball.


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## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>happygrinch</b>!
> people like to clamor over the "streetball' term , while basically getting wrong its meaning and not caring that they are wrong , which is pretty ignorant.
> 
> a flashy style of basketball is not streetball , its just an expression during a game , jamal crawford is not any more streetballish than kobe bryant , what kobe is , is a more effective basketball player , in fact if i were to use streetball in the way that most of the uninformed seem to use it , kobe is by far the streetball tryp player , he does more flashy dunks and plays with more all-around flair and lets not forget the selfishness and immaturity that permeates his game to such a point he had to be the main attraction on his team , even if it meant his team would not be a title contender anymore.
> ...


 

How do u have a 3 star rating? Must be all the Kirk fanatics 

That's a 5 star post right there.

Team USA got termed as "streetball-ish" just because it was young. I wonder if those guys even watch Wade, Starbury, AI, LJ, 'Melo, TD etc play on a consistent basis. What is it abt their game that reminds clueless people of Streetball? Or has it just become cool to refer to their play as "playground-type" just cuz most ignorant journalist seem to do today?


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>happygrinch</b>!
> people like to clamor over the "streetball' term , while basically getting wrong its meaning and not caring that they are wrong , which is pretty ignorant.
> 
> a flashy style of basketball is not streetball , its just an expression during a game , jamal crawford is not any more streetballish than kobe bryant , what kobe is , is a more effective basketball player , in fact if i were to use streetball in the way that most of the uninformed seem to use it , kobe is by far the streetball tryp player , he does more flashy dunks and plays with more all-around flair and lets not forget the selfishness and immaturity that permeates his game to such a point he had to be the main attraction on his team , even if it meant his team would not be a title contender anymore.
> ...



Thats a great post Grinch and I agree 100%. Streetball has it's place but it isn't the NBA and just because a few guys in the NBA have played streetball at one time or another it doesn't make them streetballers. Likewise having some flashy moves doesn't make them a streetballer either. I don't recall Bulls fans complaining that MJ was too street and he made some of the flashiest plays ever. Some people just want to blame everything that is wrong with the NBA on a "streetball mentality" which really isn't fair because most NBA plyers, despite whatever image they have, approach the game with a very profesional mindset, Jamal included. Besides, if a player wants to oplay streetball in the NBA he won't be in any games because the coach will have him riding the pine. 

Also, anyone who says that the US olympic team lost because they played too "street" either didn't watch them play much or doesn't understand basketball very well. Or, they could just be a journalist looking to stir the pot as ususal. The USA team was practically that antithesis of streetball. If anything, they were TOO unselfish with the ball. They played ok defense for a team thrown together on the fly too. The problem lies in the way the team was assembled and their lack of time playing together...thats it in a nutshell.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

Yep, I'll chime in too and say that was a great post, happygrinch.

The thing that annoyed me about Jamal's crossover was not it's streetball nature or whatever, it was that previous to the 03-04 season, he would consistantly break the ankles of whoever was guarding him only to take a 22 foot jumper (the worst shot in the game inside of half court).

Jamal improved this year in using the space to get into the lane, although he was often not effective when he got there. Improving his efficiency when in the paint is a next step for him.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Darius Miles Davis</b>!
> Yep, I'll chime in too and say that was a great post, happygrinch.
> 
> The thing that annoyed me about Jamal's crossover was not it's streetball nature or whatever, it was that previous to the 03-04 season, he would consistantly break the ankles of whoever was guarding him only to take a 22 foot jumper (the worst shot in the game inside of half court).
> ...


i've said it before about crawford the only really stopping him is his own mind , he chooses to take the 1st shot available to him off of a good move far too often which tends to be that 22 ft fadeaway , during his better games he generally takes more shots closer in the 15 to 18 ft. range, they are still fadeaways but he is far more likely to hit them .

i harp on the fact that when he plays with an agenda he plays better because those are the games where he imposes his will on a game , he'll take the shot he wants instead of what the defense gives him , the more consistently he does that the more consistent player he'll become and that time is approaching , i wish when he becomes that player he would have been a bull , but that is a rant for another day.


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