# With the 1st pick in the 2006 NBA Draft the Toronto Raptors select



## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

might as well face it now and start being honest the raps have a serious threat of being the worst team in the NBA seeing that almost everyone in the east have upgraded there roster and we can't even draw a sniff of intrest from free agents(no surprise)I think this is a very real possibility might as well brace for it now it will be intresting to see the development of bosh, hoffa,gram & CV but besides that this team gonna have a hard time winning 30 games imo


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## JL2002 (Nov 30, 2003)

Bosh, Charlie, Graham, Rose, MoP, Ukic, EWill, Rafer, Calderon, maybe Alvin....i dun see why we're not good enough than some of the teams that had their roster upgraded in a way....


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## MangoMangoMango (Jan 23, 2004)

Yi JianLian!!!!


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

Rudy Gay... I'd buy his jersey.


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

JL2002 said:


> Bosh, Charlie, Graham, Rose, MoP, Ukic, EWill, Rafer, Calderon, maybe Alvin....i dun see why we're not good enough than some of the teams that had their roster upgraded in a way....


be real with yourself lets look at the division shall we bos,Nj,Phi, are all better than us maybe Ny too if you look at the overall state of the east most of the teams are better than us remember we struggled vs the bobcats,bucks & hawks last season I don't see this team making much noise at all this year my expections for the raps are very very low


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## Junkyard Dog13 (Aug 9, 2003)

Villanueva will help on the boards in times Hoffa could'nt and Grahem will provide shut down D when Rose last year could'nt same for Alvin for Rafor.

44-38
___________________


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

I will put "Junkyard Dog13 is god" or something along those lines in my sig for a week if the Raptors win 44 or more games this year.


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

Junkyard Dog13 said:


> Villanueva will help on the boards in times Hoffa could'nt and Grahem will provide shut down D when Rose last year could'nt same for Alvin for Rafor.
> 
> 44-38
> ___________________


your dreaming look at the east in terms of playoff seeds 

1 mia
2 det
3 nj
4 ind
5 cle
6 chi
7 was
8 bos or phi

I'am assuming thats how its gonna look come the end of the reg season we play each team about 3-4 times I don't see us taking the series from any of these teams sure we might steal a game or two but overall were gonna be under .500 vs these guys then factor in we play each west team twice :brokenhea its gonna be a long year might as well prepare for it now


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## JL2002 (Nov 30, 2003)

Mr_B said:


> be real with yourself lets look at the division shall we bos,Nj,Phi, are all better than us maybe Ny too if you look at the overall state of the east most of the teams are better than us remember we struggled vs the bobcats,bucks & hawks last season I don't see this team making much noise at all this year my expections for the raps are very very low


seriously, i'm not saying that we will even make it to the playoff, but I'm sure we'll be close adding Charlie, Joey and Roko....unless you tell me that they will be bust, otherwise i dun see why a starting lineup of Bosh,Rose,MoP,Rafer and bench of Charlie,Joey,EWill,Roko,Alvin will have no chance to beat those good teams at least 1 time coming season. 

Upgrade? if you don't think Raptors have one of the best upgrade this year, then I really dunno what you call an upgrade then. They only good upgrade i can say is Cavs, with addition of Hughes and Marshall; New York depend how Robinson, Frye and Lee pans out, they seem to be good in summer league + Q, but they did lose Kurt and Nazr; The other teams are just resigning players at this point. Bucks? Bogut and Simmon a good upgrade? Nets, Wright and Shareef?...Boston, Green? Philly? just resigning their FA, Bulls? Curry-less, the only guy which gave Raptors trouble last season; 

Again, last season it was distraction all over the place with trade rumours everywhere and Vince getting trade etc. Bosh will get his chance in taking this team to another level starting next season, no more distraction except for Rose and Rafer probably....if they don't even get close to 40 wins then this team is hopeless....


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## Ballyhoo (May 30, 2003)

JL2002 said:


> ....if they don't even get close to 40 wins then this team is hopeless....


Prepared to be disappointed. They won't get close to 40 wins. While I don't think they'll be the worst team in the NBA, bottom 5 is a very distinct possibility.

In 2006 ... Rudy! Rudy! Rudy!


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## Bron_Melo_ROY (Apr 12, 2004)

Budweiser_Boy said:


> Rudy Gay... I'd buy his jersey.


U know the deal Rudy G, holdin down the city of charms in '06 baby. Toronto consider yourselves lucky (if you get him).


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## Rhubarb (Mar 19, 2005)

It's threads like these that make me want to slap the basketball gods in the face.

Why do guys like Greg Oden have to step out when we're due to make our playoff run? Bah!


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

Gotta be Gay at #1. 

If we do a little better, Adam Morrison could be a great fit.

If we finish around the same spot, Ronnie Brewer.


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

JL2002 said:


> seriously, i'm not saying that we will even make it to the playoff, but I'm sure we'll be close adding Charlie, Joey and Roko....unless you tell me that they will be bust, otherwise i dun see why a starting lineup of Bosh,Rose,MoP,Rafer and bench of Charlie,Joey,EWill,Roko,Alvin will have no chance to beat those good teams at least 1 time coming season.


adding Cv & Joey are good pick ups but I don't think thats enough to make a run in th east at least on paper every team looks stronger and on top of that the wiz just signed antino daniels


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## Rhubarb (Mar 19, 2005)

JL2002 said:


> seriously, i'm not saying that we will even make it to the playoff, but I'm sure we'll be close adding Charlie, Joey and Roko....unless you tell me that they will be bust, otherwise i dun see why a starting lineup of Bosh,Rose,MoP,Rafer and bench of Charlie,Joey,EWill,Roko,Alvin will have no chance to beat those good teams at least 1 time coming season.
> 
> Upgrade? if you don't think Raptors have one of the best upgrade this year, then I really dunno what you call an upgrade then.


I don't think anyone's doubting that we've upgraded our roster from last season, but the number of other teams that have done so as well are still ahead of us. Being close to making the playoffs in the Atlantic Division means little in the greater scheme of things.

And for what it's worth, it's not just a matter of adding new players to the roster; keep in mind the teams that have another season behind their back to gel together, and those who should continue to naturally progress.



JL2002 said:


> They only good upgrade i can say is Cavs, with addition of Hughes and Marshall


Rumours of more to come (Jaric, Jasikevicius) on top of the Hughes, Z, and 'Yell signings can only spell improvement.



JL2002 said:


> New York depend how Robinson, Frye and Lee pans out, they seem to be good in summer league + Q, but they did lose Kurt and Nazr


New York are rubbish.



JL2002 said:


> The other teams are just resigning players at this point. Bucks? Bogut and Simmon a good upgrade?


Milwaukee can only be going up. 'Signings' of Bogut and B-Sizzle may not seem overly huge in the context of things, but the return of TJ Ford shouldn't be taken lightly. Look at this:

PG - TJ Ford/Maurice Williams
SG - Michael Redd/Jiri Welsch/Reece Gaines
SF - Bobby Simmons/Desmond Mason/Ersan Ilyasova
PF - Joe Smith/Zaza Pachulia
C - Andrew Bogut/Dan Gadzuric/Calvin Booth

That has 'playoff-bound' written all over it.



JL2002 said:


> Nets, Wright and Shareef?


A core of Kidd-Carter-Jefferson with Krstic manning the post was all but signed and sealed for the Atlantic title. Adding a solid depth player in Wright and the missing PF in 'Reef should all but deliver it.

We never got to see the Nets trio strut their stuff last season for any reasonable length of games. Don't underestimate the power of J-Kidd.



JL2002 said:


> Bulls? Curry-less, the only guy which gave Raptors trouble last season


Chicago have alot of scope for improvement still if they can manage to keep together their core group. Last season was a glimpse of things to come. Natural progression is what it's called.


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## Junkyard Dog13 (Aug 9, 2003)

Jersey has got better but what happens if jersey is quietly working a deal for Kid?
or what if VC has a bad injury that forces him to miss more than a month?


No body but Maimi & Detriot are locks yet.


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## -James- (Apr 27, 2004)

Junkyard Dog13 said:


> Jersey has got better but what happens if jersey is quietly working a deal for Kid?
> or what if VC has a bad injury that forces him to miss more than a month?
> 
> 
> No body but Maimi & Detriot are locks yet.


 I disagree. New Jersey's core of Kristic, Jefferson, and Shareef would probably be goood enough to make the playoffs anyways. I think that unless three of Kidd, RJ, Vince and Kristic go down, they have our division locked up. Also, I believe Indiana is a lock, maybe Chicago if Curry can stay healthy and if they hang on to him, Tyson, and Duhon. I'd expect the other three spots to go to Cleveland, Milwaukee, and Philly or Orlando. 

I don't agree with the initial post of the thread either. I highly, highly doubt we will be the worst team in the league next year. I mean there's New Orleans, Portland, New York, Charlotte, and Atlanta. I expect us to finish with the 4-8 worst record. I really want Ronnie Brewer next off-season unless we win the lottery next season. I think he'd be a great fit.


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

Budweiser_Boy said:


> Rudy Gay... I'd buy his jersey.


i say you wearing a similar shirt the other day :eek8:


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## McFurious (Mar 25, 2004)

I think Babcock already has this in mind. Put out a young roster on the floor let them get some experience and if we tank we get lottery grab Rudy Gay with our pick (no brainer). He and CV played ball in college and would be a perfect fit to this club. 

If i was Babs i would even trade both our picks to move up and get Rudy all we need is one more superstar player on this team and were looking at a Championship team very near in the future.


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## changv10 (Apr 25, 2005)

Back to the topic ... I would be happy if we get one of Tiago Splitter, Lemarcus Aldridge or Josh McRoberts. 

true ... they are all PF's but they are the best big men available. 

i'm not sure how much rudy gay will improve ... i think he will not be as high as some people believe (not as extreme as chris taft) ... but i think he'll drop. 

With our Denver pick, I'll be rooting for Guillermo Diaz.


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## AirBonner (May 28, 2005)

This year the team had tonnes of holes to fill just to be able to put out a coherent starting lineup so they didn't trade up. Next year I hope they take the risk of trading up to try and get a star player.

Even with CV, graham and ukic I don't see any of those guys consistently winning games for us.


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## TRON (Feb 29, 2004)

*With the 1st pick in the 2006 NBA Draft the Toronto Raptors select....* 

Way too early to say, so Rudy or Tiago seems like the best anwers I guess

I am looking forward to a little stabilty and growth this year, rather than acually wins, but if I had to guess, I would say we end up with about 35-38 wins this upcoming year.

While other teams have attained more seasoned assets, the Raptors might make strides this year with thier youth movement like Boston did last year. While I am ready for some growing pains, I think our 3 top picks will be ready to contribute in some manor right away. 

Toronto wil be a lot better off at the PG postion this year but reality is that we still don't have a true center like our counterparts, and will stil get abused in the paint


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

Can't say I'm too intrigued by Splitter now that we have Charlie V in the fold, who seems like a nice mix of Hoffa and Chucky actually. 

I want the best wing player in the draft, ideally but I'll settle for top 3. If the mocks are anything to judge by (and we all know how accurate they are), that looks like Gay, Morrison, or Ronnie Brewer. I'd be happy with any of those 3.


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

RUDY!

Honestly though, I don't see us getting the #1 pick. Top 5; maybe, but I don't see us being the worst team in the league. Yeah I know teams are improving but we didn't get any worse (barring any major trade/waiving).


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

might as well call a end to the season now its over


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

Mr_B said:


> might as well face it now and start being honest the raps have a serious threat of being the worst team in the NBA seeing that almost everyone in the east have upgraded there roster *and we can't even draw a sniff of intrest from free agents(no surprise)*I think this is a very real possibility might as well brace for it now it will be intresting to see the development of bosh, hoffa,gram & CV but besides that this team gonna have a hard time winning 30 games imo


I'm not too sure how we're supposed to lure free agents here when we have no cap room. Maybe I've been sleeping under a rock for the past 5 years, but that's how I thought things worked.


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

Turkish Delight said:


> I'm not too sure how we're supposed to lure free agents here when we have no cap room. Maybe I've been sleeping under a rock for the past 5 years, but that's how I thought things worked.


you think the raps are the only ones with cap room? nobody want to play in canada even when we had cap room in the mid 90s nobody wanted to come here


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

Mr_B said:


> you think the raps are the only ones with cap room? nobody want to play in canada even when we had cap room in the mid 90s nobody wanted to come here


Seems to me like someone's been watching too much ESPN. When guys like Rose and Alvin Williams finally come off the books, we'll be able to lure in some key free agents. The NBA has been in Canada for awhile now, and players aren't as reluctant to play here as they used to be.


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

Turkish Delight said:


> Seems to me like someone's been watching too much ESPN. When guys like Rose and Alvin Williams finally come off the books, we'll be able to lure in some key free agents. The NBA has been in Canada for awhile now, and players aren't as reluctant to play here as they used to be.


to much espn? tell me when was the last time toronto signed a major free agent?


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

Mr_B said:


> to much espn? tell me when was the last time toronto signed a major free agent?


The same time they had major cap space I suppose.


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## ColinBeehler (Oct 14, 2003)

Mr_B said:


> might as well face it now and start being honest the raps have a serious threat of being the worst team in the NBA seeing that almost everyone in the east have upgraded there roster and we can't even draw a sniff of intrest from free agents(no surprise)I think this is a very real possibility might as well brace for it now it will be intresting to see the development of bosh, hoffa,gram & CV but besides that this team gonna have a hard time winning 30 games imo


What do you mean threat? We have a good CHANCE at getting the #1 pick next year according to your rationale. Please note the correct spelling of our #16 overall draft pick's name is: Joey GRAHAM... not Gram. Anyways, back on topic. I welcome the chance to have a choice of players like Rudy Gay and Tiago Splitter. Even if it does mean giving up a chance at a first round playoff exit this year. Getting a top notch prospect who could essentially help us contend for a chamionship is very worth it.

On the other side of the ball, Mike James has a better attitude then Alston, and he is a great defender. I dont wanna pretend like I know all about him. But I am not dissapointed we did this deal.

Anyways, thats how I look at it.


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## ansoncarter (Dec 22, 2004)

hopefully someone as good as Bosh

two Bosh's and we're set. These mid lotto picks are looking like crapshoots to even land a starter


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

SkywalkerAC said:


> The same time they had major cap space I suppose.


there no answer to that question cuz toronto has never have the raps have to trade & draft and hope they strike gold cuz nobody comming here VIA free agent


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

ansoncarter said:


> These mid lotto picks are looking like crapshoots to even land a starter


true but thats not the point though the raps will always be in the hole cuz nba players have this big misconeption about canada that scares them off


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

Mr_B said:


> there no answer to that question cuz toronto has never have the raps have to trade & draft and hope they strike gold cuz nobody comming here VIA free agent


As I said before, NBA players may have been reluctant to come to Canada in the mid 90's because they didn't know much about it. Now that Toronto has been an NBA team for quite awhile, and has shown that it's hear to stay, we will have no problem in luring free-agents when we *have* the cap space.


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

Turkish Delight said:


> As I said before, NBA players may have been reluctant to come to Canada in the mid 90's because they didn't know much about it. Now that Toronto has been an NBA team for quite awhile, and has shown that it's hear to stay, we will have no problem in luring free-agents when we *have* the cap space.


I seriously doubt it the times when had space did we lure anybody away? no players didn't even have toronto on the map track back to when vince came back here and talked about players comming up him asking him whats it like playing in canada,do they have espn & soul food joints you don't ask these questions about ny,chicago,memphis or any other us city toronto has to break its back just get a glance at players when these guys hear canada the 1st thought that comes to them is cold and its a foren country


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

Mr_B said:


> I seriously doubt it the times when had space did we lure anybody away? no players didn't even have toronto on the map track back to when vince came back here and talked about players comming up him asking him whats it like playing in canada,do they have espn & soul food joints you don't ask these questions about ny,chicago,memphis or any other us city toronto has to break its back just get a glance at players when these guys hear canada the 1st thought that comes to them is cold and its a foren country


Okay, you can think that. But in a couple of years when you jump on the bandwaggon, I'll be there laughing.


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

Turkish Delight said:


> Okay, you can think that. But in a couple of years when you jump on the bandwaggon, I'll be there laughing.


what bandwagon I been with the raps from the start I'am just being realistic about the situation


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

Mr_B said:


> what bandwagon I been with the raps from the start I'am just being realistic about the situation


You know.. just like the bandwagon you jumped on when Vince got traded.


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## charlz (Jun 9, 2003)

Mr_B said:


> might as well face it now and start being honest the raps have a serious threat of being the worst team in the NBA seeing that almost everyone in the east have upgraded there roster and we can't even draw a sniff of intrest from free agents(no surprise)I think this is a very real possibility might as well brace for it now it will be intresting to see the development of bosh, hoffa,gram & CV but besides that this team gonna have a hard time winning 30 games imo


gawd we've endured these empy re-treaded threads all summer long - now that we have something to sink out teeth in to lets not talk draft... at least until jan PLEASE! :brokenhea


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## wind161 (Jun 19, 2005)

SkywalkerAC said:


> The same time they had major cap space I suppose.


 LOL... nice comeback


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## ballocks (May 15, 2003)

Mr_B said:


> I seriously doubt it the times when had space did we lure anybody away? no players didn't even have toronto on the map track back to when vince came back here and talked about players comming up him asking him whats it like playing in canada,do they have espn & soul food joints you don't ask these questions about ny,chicago,memphis or any other us city toronto has to break its back just get a glance at players when these guys hear canada the 1st thought that comes to them is cold and its a foren country


please relax. the nba is not a cartoon. these players are real people, and they're not as short-sighted as some of the media outlets and loudspoken fans would lead you to believe. "cold, cold" and "foreign country" are fears that the most insecure fans have. if there are any pro players that are still believing that nonsense- the "foreign country" nonsense being that canada is as far away as the ukraine simply because it's outside the american border- i don't want them on my team. i really doubt that you'd want them on your team either.

in terms of big name FA signings, we've almost _never_ had the capspace. almost _never_. our expansion rules were so strict for the first several years- far more strict than they are now... it was a good decision to bring them back to fair levels- we didn't have the choice to offer big money, while "big name" players didn't even have the choice (within reason) to consider toronto for their home. 

i mean, you might see prized free agents available every year, but how many teams actually "lure" any one of them away from their initial home? not many. in other words, there might be 10 stars on the market, and you might read about them all summer, but the chances are most probable that at least half of them return to the same franchise, while only the other 5 start new careers in a fresh city. what that means, in that hypothetical world, is that 25 of 30 teams will have failed to "lure" prized free agents. but you know this already. this is not about toronto being in a foreign country. this is about franchises (toronto included) recovering from virgin salary cap errors.

and honestly, while i'm somewhat disgusted by this topic, i'll put in another word for those fans who may have forgotten. we re-signed one of the biggest stars in recent nba history. we certainly overpaid for his complementary crew, but we re-signed _him_ to the point where he "couldn't see (him)self playing in another jersey". don't forget that. what's more, in 1999, when we had some wiggle room under the cap- _some_- we were in the bidding for jalen rose and rashard lewis, two highly coveted FA's, among others. i remember coming especially close to signing rashard, who's now a bona fide pro in this league.

seriously, i wish this inferiority complex plaguing the fan base would take a break. some of us appear scared to succeed. it's okay, relax, success is good- we don't have to continue to see ourselves scraping the bottom of the barrel to feel comfortable. success is good. it's even _more_ comfortable than losing (!). 

and listen, there are editorials being written seemingly everywhere that proclaim our gloomy future this season, but i don't see it myself. now, while i do approve of the james for alston deal, something tells me that our record this year might indeed suffer in the wake (although i could be wrong). but regardless, this is not a 30 out of 30 franchise in the nba (with or without rafer or mj)- at least i don't see it... at all. this franchise has an appropriate (fantastic, imo) head coach for the roster; a clear vision for the future on the management level; a budding superstar in chris bosh; seasoned leaders in jalen and eric (imo); young talent in graham, mop, charlie, bonner and araujo; young energy in calderon and sow; and, now, the lowest of expectations to ease whatever pressure remains.

just relax. the raptor world is beautiful.

peace


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## ColinBeehler (Oct 14, 2003)

exactly... just because nba'ers are rich. it doesnt mean they are stupid. If we have the money, a good oppurtunity for playing time or winning. I am sure that we will have as good of a chance as anyone at getting a free agent we deserve.


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## kirk_2003 (Jun 23, 2003)

Paul Davis from Michigan St.(i think?) is a sleeper for sure, i definately like him... you might think that we are stacked in bigs.. but how much is enough right? saw him at the tourney last march and he impressed me... was highly touted coming out of HS... dont know why he is in the 2nd round...


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## Yao Mania (Aug 4, 2003)

MangoMangoMango said:


> Yi JianLian!!!!


I think that'd be 2008, not 2006 :sad:


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## kirk_2003 (Jun 23, 2003)

Yao Mania said:


> I think that'd be 2008, not 2006 :sad:


might even be 2009, for all we know...


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

Let's get Gay.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

Mr_B said:


> might as well call a end to the season now its over


Did the Rafer trade take you away from your hand love for Vince. Go away.


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## kirk_2003 (Jun 23, 2003)

JuniorNoboa said:


> Let's get Gay.


meh... lets go for BREWER!!!


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## Benis007 (May 23, 2005)

I'm probably going to get pelted with stones for this one.

Rose + Mo Pete + 2006 1st rounder = a very nice big man + prospect.


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

JuniorNoboa said:


> Did the Rafer trade take you away from your hand love for Vince. Go away.


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

vigilante said:


> You know.. just like the bandwagon you jumped on when Vince got traded.


lol @ you talking like you know me your my hero


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## MonsterBosh (Feb 9, 2005)

Most likely the Raptors will crash this season .. as warned by Babcock .. and he should know. You can't depend on rookies and sophmore players to carry any NBA team to the playoffs. In fact it will be amazing if these players will even gel given that the expectation on rookies is unrealistic. You can't bring in a handful of new players and think they will become a winning team instantaneously. Not realistic !!

What we will see this season is the opposition teams will double and occasionally triple team Bosh and let the rest of the Raptors do what they want because they will not be offensively significant. Neither will these new players survive on defense because building an effective defense may be more difficult than an offense. Rookies struggle in the NBA learning to defend against better players than they have ever seen in their college careers.

Bosh's development as a player will stall because he will be effectively stopped ... all because a low post player needs an outside threat to free him up and not get double teamed. Opposition teams will easily exploit the Raptor's weaknesses ... as Babcock and the staff painfully understand. Only unrealistic Raptor fans want to think that the new players will suddenly shine and fulfill their fantasy's. Nope ... sorry .. highly unlikely ... !!!

As for the Raptor's winning the first lottery pick ... I would not hold my breath because any of the top 3 picks will most likely refuse to play for Toronto and ask for a trade. Remember Stevie and Vancouver?! Of course this may not be all that bad if the Raptors can get experienced players in return who will come to Toronto.

What everybody must understand is that Toronto is not in the NBA network of cities that US players can identify with ... it's a foreign place with no real NBA culture. Money is only of concern to NBA players who are trying to extend their failing careers and will go anywhere for the bloated paycheck .. even Toronto. Young NBA stars have the pick of the NBA and that obviously does not include Toronto ... believe it ... !!!


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

MonsterBosh said:


> Most likely the Raptors will crash this season .. as warned by Babcock .. and he should know. You can't depend on rookies and sophmore players to carry any NBA team to the playoffs. In fact it will be amazing if these players will even gel given that the expectation on rookies is unrealistic. You can't bring in a handful of new players and think they will become a winning team instantaneously. Not realistic !!
> 
> What we will see this season is the opposition teams will double and occasionally triple team Bosh and let the rest of the Raptors do what they want because they will not be offensively significant. Neither will these new players survive on defense because building an effective defense may be more difficult than an offense. Rookies struggle in the NBA learning to defend against better players than they have ever seen in their college careers.
> 
> ...


truth this pretty much sums up what I been saying all along


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

oh the humanity! and the ignorance.

Even a guy that just got traded from us said that Toronto reminds him of New York, and that's one hell of a basketball city.

Again, talk of top picks not coming here is completely unfounded and downright ridiculous. You should be ashamed of yourself for spewing such garbage. 

This upcoming draft pick is absolutely vital to our team and no undrafted player's ego is going to stand in our way.


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

I also remember a time when Steve Francis, whom refused to report to Vancouver, said he did not mind playing for Toronto at the time when he made his trade request adamant.


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## MonsterBosh (Feb 9, 2005)

SkywalkerAC said:


> oh the humanity! and the ignorance.
> 
> Even a guy that just got traded from us said that Toronto reminds him of New York, and that's one hell of a basketball city.
> 
> ...


Don't believe anything you hear .. and half of what you read ... !!!


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## NYKBaller (Oct 29, 2003)

Chicago or the Raptors and ofcourse the bobcats...


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## ColinBeehler (Oct 14, 2003)

MonsterBosh said:


> Don't believe anything you hear .. and half of what you read ... !!!


great comeback... :no: ... where do u get this crap about a draft pick not coming to canada? I think bosh would have been a perfect candidate to turn us down. He was from Texas, and he had to come to the cold cold north to play basketball... I don't think that a top draft pick would complain to hard usually about getting paid 3 or 4 million dollars, to play with an up and coming superstar (bosh) and an all around young team. I think the Raptors are one of the more promising teams in the league. You have to keep in mind, all of the teams in the lottery ARE LOSING TEAMS! Not all of them will be as young and as ready to take the next step as we are. Especially with a top rate prospect, and a chance at getting some cap space in the next couple years.

Anyways, thats all for me...

-lata


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

If you don't like it here, move. Stop disgracing my city. Seriously, just go root for the Nets or something. Because really, I DO NOT want you rooting for MY team, EVER. And you all know who I'm talking to. Because this is exactly what you guys are thinking in your heads too.


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## CrookedJ (May 8, 2003)

Budweiser_Boy said:


> If you don't like it here, move. Stop disgracing my city. Seriously, just go root for the Nets or something. Because really, I DO NOT want you rooting for MY team, EVER. And you all know who I'm talking to. Because this is exactly what you guys are thinking in your heads too.


 :clap: 

There's an expression that comes to mind . . . .Repped!!!!!!!!!


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## MonsterBosh (Feb 9, 2005)

Budweiser_Boy said:


> If you don't like it here, move. Stop disgracing my city.


In Canada we live in a democracy and we don't order people to move anywhere. Please explain how anybody here is "disgracing your city"? Which city are you refering to in New Brunswick where you say you live ??




> Seriously, just go root for the Nets or something. Because really, I DO NOT want you rooting for MY team, EVER.


Why would you "seriously" tell anybody to "root" elsewhere"? What difference does it make to you which team anybody "roots" for? Are you attempting to order people to NOT DO something that you don't like? Sounds rather immature calling the Raptors "MY team" and then ordering people to NOT root for the Raptors.




> And you all know who I'm talking to. Because this is exactly what you guys are thinking in your heads too.


No, who are you talking to in such a silly dictatorial manner? Why do you threaten people who don't think as you do? Do you believe in dictatorship and want to control what people are "thinking in their heads"? Doesn't sound like you are living in democratic Canada ... somewhere more like Iran where constructive criticism is not allowed.

Please clarify your message .. which sounds like a personal attack on somebody you avoid naming ... and smear everybody on this fine forum.

GO RAPTORS GO ... !!!!!!!


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

MonsterBosh said:


> In Canada we live in a democracy and we don't order people to move anywhere. Please explain how anybody here is "disgracing your city"? Which city are you refering to in New Brunswick where you say you live ??


I usually don't waste my time with you, but I have some time to waste. First of all, I didn't order anyone to do anything. I was just suggesting, what with all the Toronto (the city) bashing going on around here, and with certain peoples' extremely low opinions on THEIR OWN CITY, to move elsewhere if it's so bad. If you constantly bash the city you live in, especially one like Toronto that gives so much back to its residents, then you are disgracing the city. And since it's my city, you're disgracing MY city. I don't live in New Brunswick, I'm here currently. But of course, you wouldn't know that, considering your extremely selective appearances on this board.



> Why would you "seriously" tell anybody to "root" elsewhere"? What difference does it make to you which team anybody "roots" for? Are you attempting to order people to NOT DO something that you don't like? Sounds rather immature calling the Raptors "MY team" and then ordering people to NOT root for the Raptors.


You have a history of taking things way out of context to try to prove your "point". You also have a history of not having a "point". Let's stay on topic and not move from one baseless "point" to another.



> No, who are you talking to in such a silly dictatorial manner? Why do you threaten people who don't think as you do? Do you believe in dictatorship and want to control what people are "thinking in their heads"? Doesn't sound like you are living in democratic Canada ... somewhere more like Iran where constructive criticism is not allowed.


My background is actually full-blooded Iranian, so thank you very much for not getting the message and taking a subliminal shot at my country while you're at it. And I know you'll take this the wrong way, so I'll just spell it out for you right now. I'm being sarcastic. Very, very, ****ing sarcastic.



> Please clarify your message .. which sounds like a personal attack on somebody you avoid naming ... and smear everybody on this fine forum.
> 
> GO RAPTORS GO ... !!!!!!!


I don't attack anyone personally. I attack ideas, opinions, and statements that I either disagree with, or in this case, that are flat-out wrong. There are plenty of people on this fine forum who would appreciate their favourite city not being constantly and unwarrentedly ****ted on by a lurker who really has no opinions one way or another, but rather just likes to make some noise.


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## AirBonner (May 28, 2005)

fftopic:


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## MonsterBosh (Feb 9, 2005)

AirBonner said:


> fftopic:


I agree that Bud_Boy is taking the thread off topic with his slagging personal attack on everybody and anybody who doesn't agree with his POV. Here is the offending B_B post and you compare that to what I originally stated about the Raptors and draft picks:



Budweiser_Boy said:


> If you don't like it here, move. Stop disgracing my city. Seriously, just go root for the Nets or something. Because really, I DO NOT want you rooting for MY team, EVER. And you all know who I'm talking to. Because this is exactly what you guys are thinking in your heads too.


Now tell me that this B_B is not taking this thread off topic ... and he is supposted to be a Forum Moderator too ..... I think he should abide by forum etiquette before he posts such crap and swearing at me on another post ("**** off") .... or else resign as a Forum Moderator rather than continuing this disgraceful conduct.


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## Ballyhoo (May 30, 2003)

I think threads on draft picks can be used as a metric for the team and fan morale. They indicate a lack of hope for the current team, which causes people to look ahead to the draft for new hope.

For the 2003-04 season the first serious threads on the draft cropped up around February, or about 4 months into the season. Up until then there was hope for playoffs. 

In for 04-05, they started early December, or about 1 month into the season as fans gave up hope early.

Now for 05-06, we have draft threads cropping up shortly after the previous draft! Or 3-4 months before the season even starts!


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## MonsterBosh (Feb 9, 2005)

Ballyhoo said:


> I think threads on draft picks can be used as a metric for the team and fan morale. They indicate a lack of hope for the current team, which causes people to look ahead to the draft for new hope.


Your observations are very astute and what you say is quite understandable as the Raptors are in a rebuilding phase that may take 2 - 4 years before we can even hope to be a playoff team.

I have hope for the Raptors, but I do not foolishly hope that this team makes the playoffs with the current roster of players. If they do make the playoffs there will be a lot of heads rolling in the 9th and 10th place teams. 

As I have stated before, the reality is that the Raptors are comprised of rookies, sophomores, newbies, bench warmers and trade bait players ... plus Bosh. Unrealisitic expectations and blind fan passion does not make for a reasonable analysis of the Raptor's situation and futute development.

If Raptor management cannot satisfy Bosh after this season we may see a quick trade and operating the Raptors on a minimal payroll ... just like the Hornets-Hawks-Bobcats ... and Toronto fans will just have to take it or leave it ... !!!


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

MonsterBosh said:


> Your observations are very astute and what you say is quite understandable as the Raptors are in a rebuilding phase that may take 2 - 4 years before we can even hope to be a playoff team.
> 
> I have hope for the Raptors, but I do not foolishly hope that this team makes the playoffs with the current roster of players. If they do make the playoffs there will be a lot of heads rolling in the 9th and 10th place teams.
> 
> ...


There is a world of difference between this moderate post and the crap that you were posting before. If you haven't noticed, as a group we're very excited about our rebuilding and very few of us have very high expectations for the team this year- largely because we're so young. However, two good draft picks this coming year and we're stacked with young talent, all with good character and work ethic, surrounding an all-star big man, in a superb basketball city. 

Were you joking about top picks not coming to Toronto to play? If you were, say so. If not, try to defend your point. We aren't arguing that we'll be a great team this season. We are arguing that Toronto isn't a dump that no NBA player will ever want to play in because that simply isn't true.


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## MonsterBosh (Feb 9, 2005)

SkywalkerAC said:


> There is a world of difference between this moderate post and the crap that you were posting before. If you haven't noticed, as a group we're very excited about our rebuilding and very few of us have very high expectations for the team this year- largely because we're so young. However, two good draft picks this coming year and we're stacked with young talent, all with good character and work ethic, surrounding an all-star big man, in a superb basketball city.


I'm pleased that you read and study my messages on this fine forum ..... but to say I am posting "crap" is not very intelligent of you ... in my opinion.

As for our "two good draft picks" they still have to prove themselves over a long NBA season, and I hear they are now icing their knees in training camp!!!!! These poor guys know that the Raptors depend on them to fill big holes in the team ... and I don't envy them as they get beaten up playing against much better players than they have ever seen before ... !!!! By Xmas we will know whether they can cut it in the NBA .. regardless of their good character and work ethic.

Neither do I envy poor Bosh who will again be expected to fill the center position on a team that still does not have a proven center. Maybe they can try to be like the Suns with Amare and Marion .... Bosh and ????????




> Were you joking about top picks not coming to Toronto to play? If you were, say so. If not, try to defend your point. We aren't arguing that we'll be a great team this season. We are arguing that Toronto isn't a dump that no NBA player will ever want to play in because that simply isn't true.


No joke here ... when you consider Toronto's tarnished reputation with Vince Carter. The NBA players do not diss Carter as much as they do the Raptor's management with the mess of their ruining an All-Star players career ... believe it ... !!! So it's not only the city. it is also the failed management situation in Toronto. 

If Raptors landed the #1 or #2 picks next draft, they would have to convince the player that not only his development but also his financial interests would be maximized in Toronto ... and that is highly unlikely given that Toronto is an off-market and sponsors like Nike will not give top dollar to the #1 draft pick playing in the foreign Toronto market.

Given the current roster, and the fact that the team must build around Bosh, it is difficult to see how a high rookie draft pick would help the Raptors .... and such a pick would most likely be traded to mutual satisfaction. That's my take on the Raptor situation now. The team needs proven NBA players through FA or trades to advance and compete.


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## ColinBeehler (Oct 14, 2003)

where do you get this bull****? do you work for nikes marketing team or something? like how many times do we hafta spell it out to you.

Althought nothing is never written in stone, it looks as though we have a good young team. Joey Graham is highly regarded as the most athletic player coming out of college this year. He is strong, fast, and a wicked good defender. Charlie Villanueva is a highly talented big man who may be able to play centre, if not, pf back up minutes and some interchangeable minutes with bosh are highly likely. Bosh of course is the #1 point to a draft pick coming in. Who turns down a chance to come to a great city, the most multicultural city in N.A., and on top of that a chance to play with a player who should at least become a top 15 player in the league. That's not even mentioning Araujo, Mo Pete, and our up coming cap space in the next couple seasons.

Why would "such a pick be traded to mutual satisfaction?" . A rookie could come to Toronto, have a good chance to get minutes, and get paid 4 million a year. By all accounts a good idea for a young person. Especially because no matter where he gets drafted in the lottery, his team will be a losing team. Who is to complain? 

THEN! Toronto ruining Vince's reputation? That as well is bull****. VINCE OPENLY ADMITTED TO NOT TRYING ON THE RAPTORS. He was a injury proned cry baby, who hadn't produced at a level worth his maximum contract for two years. On top of that, he had all of Canada to get behind him. He played for CANADA's home team. Just like any rookie or F.A. coming in would. Saying that a player couldn't get the deals they deserved when playing in Canada is B.S. (like nearly everything else you write). Vince won the most votes for the allstar game what? Three years straight? Did he even make All-NBA team once? Heck naw. What's that tell me? Show a little flash on the Raptors, and you have 30million plus fans to win over.

I'm sorry if my post seems a little tart, for your liking. But your posts seem a little... Retarded for my liking. 

Thank you and good night.

-lata


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## ansoncarter (Dec 22, 2004)

MonsterBosh said:


> As for our "two good draft picks" they still have to prove themselves over a long NBA season, and I hear they are now icing their knees in training camp!!!!! .


did you conclude this after reading that Charlie had an icepack on his shoulder?


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## MonsterBosh (Feb 9, 2005)

ColinBeehler said:


> where do you get this bull****? do you work for nikes marketing team or something? like how many times do we hafta spell it out to you.
> 
> Why would "such a pick be traded to mutual satisfaction?" . A rookie could come to Toronto, have a good chance to get minutes, and get paid 4 million a year. By all accounts a good idea for a young person. Especially because no matter where he gets drafted in the lottery, his team will be a losing team. Who is to complain?


You obviously know nothing about maximizing the marketability of the #1 and #2 draft picks in the major US markets. Unless you win the Slam Dunk contest and have "attitude" that the fans love ... like VC had .... the top rookies had better be close to the major US markets like with LeBron or Carmelo ... !!! The #1 draft pick would absolutely refuse to play in TO because of the team situation and now the anti-US Canadian market / politics.

Graham, Villanueva and Calderon have come to camp out-of-shape according to reports on the Training Camp thread .... Araujo was a washout last season ... Mo stinks outside of TO .. and politically multiculti Toronto is the most anti-American city in Canada .... that's reality and not the rosy retarded description you paint of the Raptors. 

Babcock says 4 - 5 years before the Raptors can be a contender ... and that can't be accomplished with more draft picks either ... they need proven seasoned NBA players who don't need to come to Toronto to help this team develop for 5 years for any money ... LOL ... !!!

It doesn't matter what YOU think about Carter ... what matters is what the other NBA players think about Toronto ... and it ain't favourable. Nobody comes to Toronto unless they have no other choice ... and that has been the record from AD to James.

What you are doing is confusing your feelings for Toronto with a gross ignorance what NBA and top college players know about Toronto's reputation surrounding VC ... and it ain't good ... believe it .... !!


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## ansoncarter (Dec 22, 2004)

^lol


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## ColinBeehler (Oct 14, 2003)

> You obviously know nothing about maximizing the marketability of the #1 and #2 draft picks in the major US markets. Unless you win the Slam Dunk contest and have "attitude" that the fans love ... like VC had .... the top rookies had better be close to the major US markets like with LeBron or Carmelo ... !!! The #1 draft pick would absolutely refuse to play in TO because of the team situation and now the anti-US Canadian market / politics.


And what does this show YOU know??? NOTHING! I'm sorry that I am not a top NBA pick or anything like that. But are you? It is absolutely unfounded to believe that a top draft pick(the only ones with enough gall to refuse to report to a team) couldn't impress enough people to get a commercial and a shoe deal in Canada. What is the team situation? Were you at training camp? Rob Babcock is surrounding Chris Bosh an up and coming superstar with first round rookie talent. Mo Pete is excellent on defense regardless, and is excellent on offense at home. Yes, he struggled down the stretch on the road last year. But if I remember correctly, at the end of the season he got it together.



> Graham, Villanueva and Calderon have come to camp out-of-shape according to reports on the Training Camp thread .... Araujo was a washout last season ... Mo stinks outside of TO .. and politically multiculti Toronto is the most anti-American city in Canada .... that's reality and not the rosy retarded description you paint of the Raptors.


 No one said the rookies were out of shape, they were visibly tired out... But who wouldn't be after a 3.5 hr practise? It was their second day of practises at the NBA level. They both came from solid college programs and all through the press were made out to be hard workers this summer... And let's face it, all any of us on here really know about the Raptors is what we see in the ACC, and what we read in the press.

Araujo WAS a washout last season. Sure. I'll agree with you on that. He came into camp this year down 12 lbs. He played well in Brazil once he got into the swing of things. Unfortunately he had an eye infection and that kept him out of the U-21 tourney. Brad Miller had worse rookie numbers then Araujo did. He turned out all right. I'd kill to have a player like Miller on the team beside Bosh when we're ready to compete for the rings.



> It doesn't matter what YOU think about Carter ... what matters is what the other NBA players think about Toronto ... and it ain't favourable. Nobody comes to Toronto unless they have no other choice ... and that has been the record from AD to James.
> 
> What you are doing is confusing your feelings for Toronto with a gross ignorance what NBA and top college players know about Toronto's reputation surrounding VC ... and it ain't good ... believe it .... !!


What I don't get is why do you think NBA'ers are so dumb? You don't think they can understand the bright future of a franchise? You don't think that despite the fact players aren't spewing it all over the media. They can think in their heads. "Quit whining Vince, you ruined your own market value."

The Raptors have been in cap hell for several seasons because of you-know-who (VC and his demands to sign his friends). How do we know that after 10 years, players aren't realizing that Toronto is a stable market. One of the largest cities in the NBA. American haters or not, I am sure they realize they would be appreciated, payed and given a fair shot at PT in Toronto. Beyond that, I think the common consensus is that the Raptors, while sacrificing this year and maybe even next. Will be on the right track with top level rookies coming in through the draft (don't tell me a rookie won't help our chances at a title). While I know they are "PROVEN" right now. They would be by the time we were ready to start GAME 1 of the NBA Finals....

Why do I even bother tho.... I don't think you can read... you just read it, ignore it... and then promptly try to fight logic with empty words...

But hey, why confuse yourself with facts when you've already made up your mind.

RIGHT?


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## ColinBeehler (Oct 14, 2003)

jesus... thats a long post.


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## TiMVP2 (Jun 19, 2003)

rudy gay


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## ansoncarter (Dec 22, 2004)

have we even been that bad at signing players anyways? (never really gave it much thought since it's abundantly obvious, at least to me, that players simply follow the money) 

Only big ones who took a pass were Tmac and Reggie Lewis (that I can think of off the top of my head). 

but we inked Vince Carter, Antonio Davis coming off an allstar year, Jerome Williams, Alvin Williams, a bunch of lesser guys like Mark Jackson, Rafer, etc.

who are all these players that refused to sign here?


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## MonsterBosh (Feb 9, 2005)

ColinBeehler said:


> jesus... thats a long post.


... and full of excuses and fantacizing too ... now you are invoking "Jesus' " name to justify the silliness you are posting ... and being proud of it too ... LOL ..... !!!

You claim that I know NOTHING about NBA marketability, but you were unaware of this important factor for determining where a #1 draft pick will want to go. Instead you pose a bunch of rhetorical questions that even you can't answer to make your case.

As for the Raptor rookies, "visibly tired" IS out of shape you dunce ..!!! And the rest of your posting is absolute drivel .. not worth responding to .... flick ... !!!


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## ansoncarter (Dec 22, 2004)

MonsterBosh said:


> You obviously know nothing about maximizing the marketability of the #1 and #2 draft picks in the major US markets. Unless you win the Slam Dunk contest and have "attitude" that the fans love ... like VC had .... the top rookies had better be close to the major US markets like with LeBron or Carmelo ... !!! The #1 draft pick would absolutely refuse to play in TO because of the team situation and now the anti-US Canadian market / politics.
> 
> Graham, Villanueva and Calderon have come to camp out-of-shape according to reports on the Training Camp thread .... Araujo was a washout last season ... Mo stinks outside of TO .. and politically multiculti Toronto is the most anti-American city in Canada .... that's reality and not the rosy retarded description you paint of the Raptors.
> 
> ...


are you able to make the distinction between draftpicks and freeagents? theres a difference. And it's not subtle lol

and AD was hardly 'forced' into coming here lol. He was a freeagent (notice the word FREE in that phrase?)

if your going to ignore reality, and warp it to fit your opinion, don't get upset when people call you delusional


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## MonsterBosh (Feb 9, 2005)

ansoncarter said:


> are you able to make the distinction between draftpicks and freeagents? theres a difference. And it's not subtle lol


Why are you asking this nonsensical question ??? .... just prove your point if you can and get on with it ... !!!



> and AD was hardly 'forced' into coming here lol. He was a freeagent (notice the word FREE in that phrase?)


So .. ??!!! ... AD may have been a FA, but he certainly was not happy playing in TO and forced himself to stay ... and now the rest of the NBA knows about AD's pathetic situation together with VC's problems with Raptor management.



> if your going to ignore reality, and warp it to fit your opinion, don't get upset when people call you delusional


I don't know why I am bothering to respond to [strike]a half-wit like you[/strike] .... you who cannot complete your thoughts and present a complete message ... only insinuations and nonsense .. !

please refrain from personal attacks. thanks. speedy.


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## ansoncarter (Dec 22, 2004)

so Antonio Davis actually WAS forced to stay? since he 'forced himself' to stay

makes sense (in an insane sort of way)


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## ColinBeehler (Oct 14, 2003)

> You claim that I know NOTHING about NBA marketability, but you were unaware of this important factor for determining where a #1 draft pick will want to go. Instead you pose a bunch of rhetorical questions that even you can't answer to make your case.


and what the hell are you writing? You think that attacking my post, and not stating any facts makes yours any better? and no, I wasn't unaware of "this important factor". It simply isn't an important factor.



> ... LOL ..... !!!


i sure hope you aren't actually laughing out loud every time you write that. If you are... You are one sketchy sketchy individual...



> As for the Raptor rookies, "visibly tired" IS out of shape you dunce ..!!! And the rest of your posting is absolute drivel .. not worth responding to .... flick ... !!!


I certainly disagree with that. Visibly tired is NOT out of shape. Say for instance someone just played the game of their life in basketball (and for arguments sake, that IS only 1hr- 1.5hr hrs.. vs. this practises 3 hr format). They look tired, very tired. BUT! That doesn't mean they are out of shape, if they just left everything on the court. Which is, of course what every coach asks of their players. No matter how great of shape you are in, if you give every play, or every drill 100%. You are definately going to be tired when you are done.



> So .. ??!!! ... AD may have been a FA, but he certainly was not happy playing in TO and forced himself to stay ... and now the rest of the NBA knows about AD's pathetic situation together with VC's problems with Raptor management.


I don't get it. If he really didn't want to be in Canada. And he was -FREE- to go.... Why would he force himself to stay? Obviously my elementary level of logic can't keep up with yours.



> I don't know why I am bothering to respond to a half-wit like you .... you who cannot complete your thoughts and present a complete message ... only insinuations and nonsense .. !


hahaha.. speaking of half wits... What's everyone think of that MonsterBosh guy??? Wouldn't you all just love to give him a..... Fliiiiiiick!


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## AirBonner (May 28, 2005)

Could someone pls stop these trolls


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

Chris Bosh would be disappointed at this thread


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## MonsterBosh (Feb 9, 2005)

trick said:


> Chris Bosh would be disappointed at this thread


I agree .... even I am disappointed at the immature discourse and refusal to face facts ... !!!


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

Am I going to have to close this thread, or are people going to start posting something worth reading again.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

We haven't had a real troll on the boards for a while. Everyone should relish the chance to exercise their argumentative talents against such antagonists. Put together your arguments well and everyone here will respect you for it. This is a better time than ever to argue about the direction of the Raptors; relish it and see with your own eyes what is really going on with the team. I can't do the latter so I'm depending on all of you to critique each player and the team, night in and night out. 

We might not win every game but we all expect the boys to play to win and with love for the game. Potential might be a dangerous word but I'm waiting to see whether this team has it or not, and whether an additional 3 or 4 pieces might complete the puzzle. 

Again, don't feed the trolls. Argue to the best of your ability but don't get sucked in. This board is too good for that.


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

ansoncarter said:


> but we inked Vince Carter, Antonio Davis coming off an allstar year, Jerome Williams, Alvin Williams, a bunch of lesser guys like Mark Jackson, Rafer, etc.


outside of Vince those guys are all role players who stayed largly because GG overpaid them nobody was gonna give jyd,aw & ad the type of money GG was throwing at them mark as for jackson he said himself he only came to toronto cuz ad talked him into it the city or team had nothing to do with it for the most part


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

Vince Carter became one of the biggest stars in the game "with the greatest of ease" in Toronto. Bosh is already forging down the same path, despite his tender age. He's basically already loved and respected by millions and even gets his just deserts from the American media. Exposure is simply much higher in Toronto than it is in many NBA cities; like New York, it may be too much for some to handle but the cream usually rises to the top.


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## MonsterBosh (Feb 9, 2005)

SkywalkerAC said:


> Vince Carter became one of the biggest stars in the game "with the greatest of ease" in Toronto. Bosh is already forging down the same path, despite his tender age. .......... ,it may be too much for some to handle but the cream usually rises to the top.


What I am suggesting is that Toronto risks losing Bosh as they did Carter, Camby, T-Mac, Stoudamire, all because Toronto is not a favourable long term investment for the top US players to max out their basketball careers and marketability in the bigger US basketball markets. Toronto may be the 4th largest centre, but it does not have a basketball culture as do American cities. Also these US players must prefer playing in the US, and may only use the Raptors as a stepping stone back to the USA.

Since the Raptors are a Team Under Construction for the next 4 - 5 years according to Babcock, we must evaluate Bosh's future in that context. Obviously he will stay with the Raptors for this season, but the next is not assured unless Bosh feels the Raptors are improving with the rookies and newbies, giving him more flexibility to play without encountering excessive double teaming or the frustration that occurs when the team doesn't gel and the plays for Bosh get broken down.

Fan expectation is usually sky high because of the emotional aspect of sports entertainment, but I am surprised that some on this fine forum are so besotted with the Raptors that critical analysis cannot be tolerated.

Merry Xmas to all ... !


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## ansoncarter (Dec 22, 2004)

Mr_B said:


> outside of Vince those guys are all role players who stayed largly because GG overpaid them nobody was gonna give jyd,aw & ad the type of money GG was throwing at them mark as for jackson he said himself he only came to toronto cuz ad talked him into it the city or team had nothing to do with it for the most part


right after he signed, AD mentioned getting offers from 8 other teams. He also mentioned Jerry Krause offering the same deal as us, but then getting cold feet. Not sure why you consider an allstar center, offered at least 2 mammoth contracts, a roleplayer

can't remember the Williams'es exact situations, but GLen knew what other teams were offering. He's not going to offer something outlandish when he doesn't have to. Saying he had to throw money at them is pure speculation. You honestly think Jerome Williams needed money thrown at him to stay? the same guy who wore our uniform to chicago after he was traded, and had tears in his eyes? we might have overpaid, but it wasn't about the city. It was Glenn being desperate to put something beside Vince

before you start labelling us Siberia, at least wait for some evidence. Do you know of anyone who passed us over beside Tmac and Reggie? I don't. I do know we inked the biggest prize in the entire league one year.

I could see us being low on the list of f.a. desitinations, but it always comes down to the money. Worst case scenario in 2007 in my mind, is we have to tack an extra year on someones contract. Big deal


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## ColinBeehler (Oct 14, 2003)

MonsterBosh said:


> What I am suggesting is that Toronto risks losing Bosh as they did Carter, Camby, T-Mac, Stoudamire, all because Toronto is not a favourable long term investment for the top US players to max out their basketball careers and marketability in the bigger US basketball markets. Toronto may be the 4th largest centre, but it does not have a basketball culture as do American cities. Also these US players must prefer playing in the US, and may only use the Raptors as a stepping stone back to the USA.
> 
> Since the Raptors are a Team Under Construction for the next 4 - 5 years according to Babcock, we must evaluate Bosh's future in that context. Obviously he will stay with the Raptors for this season, but the next is not assured unless Bosh feels the Raptors are improving with the rookies and newbies, giving him more flexibility to play without encountering excessive double teaming or the frustration that occurs when the team doesn't gel and the plays for Bosh get broken down.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry if "I know nothing" about this too. But, to me it doesn't even seem like you are reasoning, analysing, or doing anything productive on here. If you want people to listen to your point. Do not attack them with a long series of: "...LOL.. !!!!" , "You obviously know nothing", and "Flick!". While not even bothering to provide reasons for your beliefs. You could actually be a very very knowledgable basketball man. But man, no one is going to know that if you don't get your point across in a more tolerable manner.

If you feel like it, take this seriously. I can respect anyones point of view. But, be logical, explain yourself and really avoiding getting personal (something I need to work on myself).

-lata


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

ansoncarter said:


> Do you know of anyone who passed us over beside Tmac and Reggie? I don't.


plenty theres Qutino Mobley for starters


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

Mr_B said:


> plenty theres Qutino Mobley for starters


Also Qristan Laettner, Qrhis Anderson, Qharles Smith.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

MonsterBosh said:


> What I am suggesting is that Toronto risks losing Bosh as they did Carter, Camby, T-Mac, Stoudamire, all because Toronto is not a favourable long term investment for the top US players to max out their basketball careers and marketability in the bigger US basketball markets. Toronto may be the 4th largest centre, but it does not have a basketball culture as do American cities. Also these US players must prefer playing in the US, and may only use the Raptors as a stepping stone back to the USA.
> 
> Since the Raptors are a Team Under Construction for the next 4 - 5 years according to Babcock, we must evaluate Bosh's future in that context. Obviously he will stay with the Raptors for this season, but the next is not assured unless Bosh feels the Raptors are improving with the rookies and newbies, giving him more flexibility to play without encountering excessive double teaming or the frustration that occurs when the team doesn't gel and the plays for Bosh get broken down.
> 
> ...



But we´ve gone over it SO many bloody times- the chances of losing Bosh as a restricted free agent are EXTREMELY low. The only way it really happens these days are if something goes very wrong as it did with Curry, Kwame, and to a lesser extent, Swift. We´re going to pay him and he´s going to play for us. That´s by far the most realistic scenarion, even if we didn´t end up putting a great team around him. I think Babs is putting the right kind of team around him but that´s a discussion for another day.


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## Harry_Minge (Oct 4, 2005)

JuniorNoboa said:


> Also Qristan Laettner, Qrhis Anderson, Qharles Smith.



lol.........nice one dude


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