# What would you want Isiah Thomas to do this offseason?



## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

If I had my way , he would 
1. buy the grizzlies pick(#19) for 3 mil. as they have been offering to sell it, to whomever.

just grabbing an asset all it cost is money and its a deep draft.

2. Trade penny, the #30 pick & jerome williams for ruben patterson , derek anderson and theo ratliff.

getting some depth , patterson was just an excellent player last year when they gave him some playing time, ratliff is an overpaid shot blocker , but he is still a very good shotblocker, derek anderson when healthy is an effective player , but you really cant count on that so he is essentially filler, to give the blazers more cap relief.

3.trade kurt thomas and the 19th pick to cleveland for Big Z signed for 4 years 36 mil.

the knicks need a starting center Illgastaus is a very good one, and with ratliff you wont have to overplay him, keeping him fresh and effective, thomas is a good player but he isn't a center for the knicks because he cant post up and he isn't athletic, or a shotblocker, all he could do really is try to bring centers out on pick and rolls..

4.trade tim thomas and the 8th pick for ron artest and jon bender.

the pacers are in luxury tax territory and they aren't that big a market ,added to the headaches artest has given them , they get a chance to relieve themselves of bender's deal, who hasn't worked out, plus a chance at another star player in the 8th pick. the knicks get one of the best 2 way players in the league

5.Give MLE to earl watson.

an excellent defensive minded backup pg, may have to overpay to get from the grizzlies , but i think he's worth it. 

6.sign desegana diop with vet min.

a defensive project, he's athletic, big, cant score but has a turnaround jumpshot he gets off easily , he just needs to hit it(hopefully aguirre can help him there), but if he cant who cares , he's be there to block shots and rebound , best case scenerio he's this years joel prysbilla , worst case scenerio he is still better than bruno sundov.

7.give herb williams a 2 year extension. 
he can coach a power game, on offense , but he has to have the horses to work with , the knicks instantly got better defensively with him with a really poor group on the defensive side of the ball . With ratliff, patterson, artest, and watson added he will imo make the team a very good defensive team


new roster 
big Z 
sweetney 
artest
ariza
marbury

2nd unit
ratliff
malik rose
ruben patterson
jamal crawford
earl watson


the rest
jon bender
derek anderson 
jackie butler
allan houston 
mo taylor

its deeper , better defensively , probably much better offensively too , with new players and a whole preseason to implement his sys. (all he really had to work with were a pick and roll and basic post up set last season.), also its a team that should stay together for a few years, more depth at the 2 so there is no need for houston anymore, they really needed him last year, this year they shouldn't.


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## alphadog (Jan 2, 2004)

*If the pick is for sale...*

Definitely I do that. I want no part of the Blazer trade. Patterson is an idiot the comes with serious baggage, Theo is a character guy but not at that price . Anderson is washed up....no thanks. Bad move. Don't want Z...I want a qicker more athletic center...preferably younger. Love Artest but your offer is rediculous...even without Bender. Earl Watson suffers from "I'm hot, I think I'll shoot over and over". Back up material but too expensive. Diop? Please...you are setting your sights far too low. Herb deserves a chance...I'm with you on that. 

I say it is time to start assembling a really talented young team. If we bought the Griz pick, we'd have 3 picks this year and all should net very good FUTURE players with the 8th netting a starter. I want Artest to play with Ariza and JC with maybe Wally coming in to add depth and flexibility to the 2/3 slots....3 guys could play there. Would need a b/u PG and front court help. I think Splitter could be the guy at center. He is long and athletic and loves to block shots. Not much offense but he is young and besides...the team will have enough firepower. The other deal I try to make is to pry Darko away from the Pistons. He could play center, move splitter to PF and you still have offense (Darko offers a lot). My dream team?

Darko/ whoever
Splitter/ Rose
Ariza/Wally/Artest
Artest/Wally/Ariza
JC/ Omar

Bench- whoever is left plus there may be picks undealt. I figure maybe expiring contracts for Wally and Candy for Wally plus maybe a future pick? KT would fit nicely in Indy. What or who else would we need to give for Artest ? Darko is the tough one.... maybe some combo of players and the #19 purchased from the Grizzlies? That would be ideal.


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## Keith Closs (May 13, 2003)

i just want the knicks to let the contract expire and not take any moe big ones..

only players they should go after are young players under 27..theyre not winnign a title anytime soon anyway theres no reason to bring in a hig hpriced veteran to push u over the hump to make the 8th seed..


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

lets talk about Darko....realistically

the 19th pick in the draft is not getting you darko..thats for sure.If they wanted it so badly,they would buy it themselves.

Who would fit in with Coach brown,assuming he stays...

Billups was a similar story to JC,so that is a possibility...

They are a Dice injury away from being light up front,so malik Rose could be a possibility..Ariza is always intriguing and brown could really develop him..

Would the 8th pick or better do it??? Possibly...If they trade away the 8th pick,Zeke could always pick up the #19...Petro may b e available there...

I say we keep Ariza,draft green,buy the #19 and draft Petro or Blatche....

The question remains,is Greene and Petro worth the wait.....


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## Debt Collector (Mar 13, 2003)

i really hope he doesnt do anything crazy in the offseason. now come deadline time, more guys will be available and we may be able to parlay penny and TT into a good to great frontcourt player, similarly to how GS landed davis for garbage. 

draft taft or splitter with the #8, and get an experienced guy like garcia or gomes, or turiaf with the #30 who will be able to log important minutes off the bench. give sweetney, ariza, and the draftees lots of instruction and condition them well in camp, and then play them alot and see what they can do.


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## knicksfan (Jan 4, 2003)

get green with the 8 get blatche with the 30 and get julius hodge in the 2nd round. there ya go


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

Debt Collector said:


> i really hope he doesnt do anything crazy in the offseason. now come deadline time, more guys will be available and we may be able to parlay penny and TT into a good to great frontcourt player, similarly to how GS landed davis for garbage.
> 
> draft taft or splitter with the #8, and get an experienced guy like garcia or gomes, or turiaf with the #30 who will be able to log important minutes off the bench. give sweetney, ariza, and the draftees lots of instruction and condition them well in camp, and then play them alot and see what they can do.



i could see the knicks holding either TT or penny , but not both , there was really only one trade deadline deal like that for baron , where a star went for cap space and it worked out , everyone else (vince, webber) went for actual players the other team wanted , or at least wanted more than an ending deal, because the blazers had over 20 mil in ending deals to offer.

another reason i think zeke has to get that pick from the grizzlies, other teams have to sell the trading of talent with young players and hope to their fans or be on the chopping block...another pick may really help facilitate that, because no one wants to get fired.

i figure a couple of teams every year will decide they made a mistake with their team and rebuild and attempt a midseason cap dump , i figure the most likely candidates are , the t'wolves, jazz and kings. who do you think it will be?


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## Debt Collector (Mar 13, 2003)

disgruntledKNICKfan said:


> i could see the knicks holding either TT or penny , but not both , there was really only one trade deadline deal like that for baron , where a star went for cap space and it worked out , everyone else (vince, webber) went for actual players the other team wanted , or at least wanted more than an ending deal, because the blazers had over 20 mil in ending deals to offer.
> 
> another reason i think zeke has to get that pick from the grizzlies, other teams have to sell the trading of talent with young players and hope to their fans or be on the chopping block...another pick may really help facilitate that, because no one wants to get fired.
> 
> i figure a couple of teams every year will decide they made a mistake with their team and rebuild and attempt a midseason cap dump , i figure the most likely candidates are , the t'wolves, jazz and kings. who do you think it will be?



my first thought was magloire, especially if they draft bogut would become immediately expendable, and would be happy to take one of our expiring deals. i figure tt+ the houston pick next year for magloire and george lynch (last year on his deal) might work. also if the lakers flop next year they may be desperate to get rid of grant and be willing to let go of butler, who i think is a good player. so they might take penny. its hard to tell which teams will be bad but it seems like the deadline is where teams get desperate and we can swoop in with our big expiring contracts.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

Debt Collector said:


> my first thought was magloire, especially if they draft bogut would become immediately expendable, and would be happy to take one of our expiring deals. i figure tt+ the houston pick next year for magloire and george lynch (last year on his deal) might work. also if the lakers flop next year they may be desperate to get rid of grant and be willing to let go of butler, who i think is a good player. so they might take penny. its hard to tell which teams will be bad but it seems like the deadline is where teams get desperate and we can swoop in with our big expiring contracts.


if the hornets get bogut they could decide over the summer to get rid of magliore if they think bogut is ready, but if they waited it would be understandable.

but i wholeheartedly agree the lakers are a prime cap dump possibility, i think there is a possibilty the knicks could snatch some good talent from them, they really need to build a team around kobe( a defensive minded unit where people dont need to have the spotlight or the ball, something like the 76ers had around iverson when they made their run at the title around 2001) and they dont have that now , their team sucks defensively , in fact they are statistically worse than the knicks .

with a defense that sucks you have to run, or play better defense, usually with better defenders and kobe wont let them run.


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## Tapseer (Jun 13, 2002)

truth said:


> lets talk about Darko....realistically
> 
> the 19th pick in the draft is not getting you darko..thats for sure.If they wanted it so badly,they would buy it themselves.
> 
> ...



Why would you draft Green ahead of Taft? The knock on Taft is not his skills, but his motor. Most scouts agree maybe he got 'NBA-itis' , meaning his head got too big. Skill wise, no question he is a #8 pick. I'm not going to hold out hope for the 19th pick in the draft unless we actually have it. Taft is more NBA ready than Green and you might not be in a position like this (hopefully) for a long time. 6'6", 6'8" athletic guys grow on trees. There is always a hot prospect at that size. You can not always find athletic big men who can actually do something with the ball. I would rather have a 7' prospect, than a 6'8" one. You can build your frontline for the future right now thru the draft getting bigger and younger. Acquire a veteran 2/3 thru FA (Hughes in Washington comes to mind) or trade.


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## Biggestfanoftheknicks (Apr 14, 2005)

truth said:


> lets talk about Darko....realistically
> 
> the 19th pick in the draft is not getting you darko..thats for sure.If they wanted it so badly,they would buy it themselves.
> 
> ...


First stay away from Petro. I swear to god he is a bust. This guy is the next DeSagana Diop except he won't be getting any weak side blocks, he is unmotivated and, worst of all, has slow lateral and foot speed. 

Greene looks pretty damn impressive get him, failing that get Splitter, they are both no brainers.

Then grab Garcia or Morris both are servicable. That highschool center I don't think will be anything, oh and stay away from Gelabe, he makes Warrick look like Tractor Traylor.


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## alphadog (Jan 2, 2004)

*Why in God's name would anyone...*

draft players that are unmotivated. How many guys that don't have motors develop one? Taft is not the guy. Greene also has some motivation questions except that he is otherworldly athletic and has not been pushed. Taft has been pushed and has come up short. Green imediately becomes one of the top 3 athletes in the league....even more so than J. Smith. Check out some tape and see for yourself. He also has the jumper...with range and , oh, so smooth. Do people really think Magloire is a center to build with? Maybe he could be a solid center and I would take him if the price wasn't so high but we need much more than him. Where does Butler fit in with the Knicks? No room at the inn for a marginal player....we already have them. Gomes is too small and Turief is another PF..which is probably our least need. Why is everyone willing to settle for everyone else's cast offs? If Magloire was so good (or good enough) they would trade Bogut to another team desperate for a center to fill more than one glaring need. I want guys that other teams want...not ones they are willing to unload.


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## Tapseer (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: Why in God's name would anyone...*



alphadog said:


> draft players that are unmotivated. How many guys that don't have motors develop one? Taft is not the guy. Greene also has some motivation questions except that he is otherworldly athletic and has not been pushed. Taft has been pushed and has come up short. Green imediately becomes one of the top 3 athletes in the league....even more so than J. Smith. Check out some tape and see for yourself. He also has the jumper...with range and , oh, so smooth. Do people really think Magloire is a center to build with? Maybe he could be a solid center and I would take him if the price wasn't so high but we need much more than him. Where does Butler fit in with the Knicks? No room at the inn for a marginal player....we already have them. Gomes is too small and Turief is another PF..which is probably our least need. Why is everyone willing to settle for everyone else's cast offs? If Magloire was so good (or good enough) they would trade Bogut to another team desperate for a center to fill more than one glaring need. I want guys that other teams want...not ones they are willing to unload.



Hey, you're right...why would we want another teams castoff? Back to Green vs. Taft. IMO, you would have to run the the offense thru Green (or run a lot of offensive sets for him) in order for him to be effective/successful. Which is fine I guess, but who is going to rebound the ball? Who is going to close up the middle? I just can't see continually ignoring our greatest need. Believe me, there will be another Green or player like him next year, just like there was a Smith last year. Big men, motivated or unmotivated don't come out every year. This year, there is some depth in the draft, where you can get a Taft or another big to build your frontline. You have to start somewhere. I say build your frontline for the future NOW. That's a good foundation. Then , with the trade pieces the team have...i.e. KT, Malik Rose, expiring contracts, you can get a pretty good veteran FA thru trade. You shouldn't go after a veteran big because you would almost certainly overpay for them. Looking at some of them play Magliore, Jerome James, Nazr while the are decent, I'd take my chances with the draft.


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## MacDanny 6 (Jun 7, 2002)

What would I want Isiah Thomas to do this offseason? Quit. It's obvious everything he does turns out bad for the Knicks. I thought getting Marbury was going to bring the Knicks to a winning record, but getting him turned out to be a disaster. You guys had Nazr Mohammed who was playing well and then he goes and trades him for Malik Rose. This guy just ain't workin out.


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## Tapseer (Jun 13, 2002)

Franco 5 said:


> What would I want Isiah Thomas to do this offseason? Quit. It's obvious everything he does turns out bad for the Knicks. I thought getting Marbury was going to bring the Knicks to a winning record, but getting him turned out to be a disaster. You guys had Nazr Mohammed who was playing well and then he goes and trades him for Malik Rose. This guy just ain't workin out.



You traded Nazr for two 1st rd draft choices and Malik Rose. The plus with Rose is that he has a very manageable contract and while you might not like him, believe me some GM does. Malik is a trade piece. That's obvious. Open your mind, see the possiblities. You build a team a piece at a time. Somethings are not for the short term, but the long term. The Knicks had a horrible season last year, but I like the way the offseason is setting us up for the future. Patience...


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

Tapseer said:


> You traded Nazr for two 1st rd draft choices and Malik Rose. The plus with Rose is that he has a very manageable contract and while you might not like him, believe me some GM does. Malik is a trade piece. That's obvious. Open your mind, see the possiblities. You build a team a piece at a time. Somethings are not for the short term, but the long term. The Knicks had a horrible season last year, but I like the way the offseason is setting us up for the future. Patience...


i think of malik rose as one of those guys you build the character of a team around , he's tough, aggressive he plays good defense, and he's ok on offense , not a liability at all, his energy is infectious, something the knicks need.

he may not be a starter but he fits in well with everyone because of his scrambling style he covers for other players mistakes, truthfully i'd keep the all the defenders i could , unless i could get back some star talent in return.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

Tap,i hear you on the big vs small issue.But to me the most interesting player out there who can be had on the cheap is Kwame Brown.Given the choice would you rather try to trade for Kwame(no way the MLE gets it done) or take Taft at the 8..Or take Both??

I would rather grab Brown and draft Greene.Alfa is right,the guy has incredible talent...

That would give us a very young core of 

Kwame
Sweets
Ariza
Greene
marbury/JC


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## The True Essence (May 26, 2003)

hey truth theres no way we land green. he wont slip past both portland and toronto


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## alphadog (Jan 2, 2004)

*I'm tellin' you guys...*

Taft is Willcox lite (or heavy). He is similiar but does not possess Willcox' athleticism. Anyone believe Willcox to be a key piece to building a team? I think Greene will evetually score in lots of ways...transition..post up...spot up, etc. I don't think you will need to run the O through him. He would be a nice piece. Have to see if he has an interst in playing D. To me, there are 3 key players to try to get via trade. Kwame, Artest, and Darko. Any of these guys would be nice. More than one would be a bonanza. If we can't land one of those 2 bigs, I would try for Magloire but only if it was a reasonable price. Remeber, the guy is really a PF playing center....and he ain't no Amare. Like I said earlier, we have plaenty of PFs without making them a priority. Splitter could maybe change my mind, though. I think he can swing bwtween 4 and 5 from what I have read and he is a defensive presence. I would like to try JC at point and give the 3 spot to Ariza.(I bet you will seee an much improved J next year). The other spots I want filled with real team players with talent...OR a SERIOUS upgrade over any of the players including Trevor and JC.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

penny,you really see portland going after Greene??They have outlaw and Miles at the SF...is greene a 2 guard????

that extra game we on is gonna come back to bite us in the butt....Toronto could select him,but that team they already had the real TMAC and that didnt work out so well....

can splitter play??

Alfa,i have been reading horror stories abot Taft..Wilcox has fire and desire...taft has "potential"....i hope we stay away from him

i think kwame is the only possibilty...artest is a pacer,and i am clueless as to Darko


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## Keith Closs (May 13, 2003)

Tapseer said:


> You traded Nazr for two 1st rd draft choices and Malik Rose. The plus with Rose is that he has a very manageable contract and while you might not like him, believe me some GM does. Malik is a trade piece. That's obvious. Open your mind, see the possiblities. You build a team a piece at a time. Somethings are not for the short term, but the long term. The Knicks had a horrible season last year, but I like the way the offseason is setting us up for the future. Patience...


how are they setting up for the future?only players with upside on the knicks are sweetney and ariza..

and with the draft picks the knicks have in the next two years theyre not gonna get a franchise player with any of the picks..i dotn see the optimism..the knicks are a medicore team with little flexibility..

unless you beleive ther 9th and 30th pick this year and the 29 or 30th pick next year along with there own pick is gonna elevate the knicks to contdners i dotn see it..


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## The True Essence (May 26, 2003)

portland is dying for a shooting guard, and green is the perfect guy for that. they also desperately need some good 3 point shooting, and green can shoot.


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## Tapseer (Jun 13, 2002)

Keith Closs said:


> how are they setting up for the future?only players with upside on the knicks are sweetney and ariza..
> 
> and with the draft picks the knicks have in the next two years theyre not gonna get a franchise player with any of the picks..i dotn see the optimism..the knicks are a medicore team with little flexibility..
> 
> unless you beleive ther 9th and 30th pick this year and the 29 or 30th pick next year along with there own pick is gonna elevate the knicks to contdners i dotn see it..


You don't always have to get FRANCHISE players in the draft. Just because a player isn't necessarily a franchise player doesnt mean he can't be a good player. Case in point you mentioned Sweetney and Ariza as players with an upside. Neither one would be considered FRANCHISE players, but they are good players and if you can draft enough good players (ala Chicago Bulls, although they took a while) and add a veteran or two you're good to go. I don't know how some of you think you can get this team fixed in the short term. You don't have any cap room and a roster loaded with PF's. If you're going to start fixing this team, the time to do it is now and I say build your frontline of the future. I like Taft, I mean I'm not enamored with him, but he can be a good player. I personally like Fran Vasquez, but I know a lot of you guys are not big on Euro players. I wouldn't mind Kwame Brown, but if he couldn't hack it in DC, what makes you think he'll perform under the bright lights of NY? I say get a couple of big guys in the draft, sign a veteran 2/3 thru FA or trade and a good coach who the players will respect and play for.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

> how are they setting up for the future?only players with upside on the knicks are sweetney and ariza..


Keith,keep in mind the Knicks lost something like 22 games by 6 poins or less..So as bad as they were there is hope..

Swwetny,Ariza and JC all have potential to really pick up their game..You will know immediately if they are serious if Sweetney dropped 20 and Ariza and JC gained 20...

Reasons for hope..For the first time in ages an end to cap hell is in sight..Penny,TT,and H20 all come off in 2 years.That is close to 50 million right there..If marbury is moved,thats another 15....

So thats something new and different....

If there is one positive thing you can say about Zeke,it is his drafing ability and track record...Number 8 cand do a world of good...

last but not least,kwame may be there for the taking..Yes,he may turn out to be Eddie Griffin,but he may be a Jermaine oneal story as well...

We deparately need a big,and time will tell


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

penny,ijust dont see portland going after a high schooler with all the bad apples on that squad...miles,randolph,patterson(though hes better) are just the wrong group to have around him.....

i think they pick someone less "impressionable" unless he really is the second coming of Tmac


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## Keith Closs (May 13, 2003)

Tapseer said:


> You don't always have to get FRANCHISE players in the draft. Just because a player isn't necessarily a franchise player doesnt mean he can't be a good player. Case in point you mentioned Sweetney and Ariza as players with an upside. Neither one would be considered FRANCHISE players, but they are good players and if you can draft enough good players (ala Chicago Bulls, although they took a while) and add a veteran or two you're good to go. I don't know how some of you think you can get this team fixed in the short term. You don't have any cap room and a roster loaded with PF's. If you're going to start fixing this team, the time to do it is now and I say build your frontline of the future. I like Taft, I mean I'm not enamored with him, but he can be a good player. I personally like Fran Vasquez, but I know a lot of you guys are not big on Euro players. I wouldn't mind Kwame Brown, but if he couldn't hack it in DC, what makes you think he'll perform under the bright lights of NY? I say get a couple of big guys in the draft, sign a veteran 2/3 thru FA or trade and a good coach who the players will respect and play for.


im all for a long term plan and patience but the knicks arent..

they arent just gonna let those cotnracts expire to free some money theyre gonna trade the tim thoamses and pennys for long contracts and headaches other teasm want to get rid of ala crawford last year..


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

> they arent just gonna let those cotnracts expire to free some money theyre gonna trade the tim thoamses and pennys for long contracts and headaches other teasm want to get rid of ala crawford last year..


dont even think that....zeke may be listening


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

why should the knicks play by the same rules as small market teams.

dolan is rich(even for team owners) and he doesn't care , taking on bigger contracts is a sure way to get bigger talents even if they are overpaid.

the only real problem is finding other big contracts to trade.


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## urwhatueati8god (May 27, 2003)

> What would you want Isiah Thomas to do this offseason?


quit


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## Tapseer (Jun 13, 2002)

urwhatueati8god said:


> quit


Oi! Outside of quitting, what should he do? If it was me, I'm trying to get bigger and better more athletic. I'll see about buying Memphis 1st rd pick at 19, get a psych to evaluate Kwame Brown. If they say he can handle playing in NY, I would take him. If I could get both of the above, then I'll take that Green kid at 8, and I should still be able to get a big man at 19. I'll also go with a big at 30. Now I know a lot of people like Hakim Warrick amd he might be available around 19, but if you already have Green and Ariza, drafting Hakim there means Ariza would have to go and you haven't addressed the big man problem. You can try to move up in the 2nd rd, but if you do the above, you can draft a Euro who can stay oversees for the next year or two. After doing the draft, we still have a butt load of PF's on the roster and we should be able to move one or two of them for something/anything i.e a veteran or future draft picks and we still have expiring contracts. There are just so many possibilities, I just can't why some people are full of DOOM and GLOOM?


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

has anyone ever seen splitter play??

tap,it is human nature for people to be most negative at the bottom,and most positive at the top...i think the knicks have bottomed out..

the only thing that concerns me is how zeke handles TT an Penny... am perfectly happy letting them expire worthless as opposed to taking on some crappy long term contract like a zack randolph...its time we right the wrongs...


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## Tapseer (Jun 13, 2002)

truth said:


> has anyone ever seen splitter play??
> 
> tap,it is human nature for people to be most negative at the bottom,and most positive at the top...i think the knicks have bottomed out..
> 
> the only thing that concerns me is how zeke handles TT an Penny... am perfectly happy letting them expire worthless as opposed to taking on some crappy long term contract like a zack randolph...its time we right the wrongs...


I feel you truth. Listen I hate having a crappy team just like everyone else, but I am actually looking forward to the offseason. I feel when everything is said and done, we will be a balanced team, a more athletic team and more importantly a bigger team. This is the first offseason in a long time the Knicks actually have some pieces to do things. I trust IT to do the right thing to make us a Championship contender. We can lay the foundation down for the future while still being competitive now. We took a step back this year, but this team is not far from being good. A couple of players, a good coach the players repsect and will play hard for and we're in there.


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## Geaux Tigers (Apr 26, 2004)

I want Isaiah Thomas to *not* draft Brandon Bass. I know his affinity for undersized PF's...


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## Tapseer (Jun 13, 2002)

Jsimo12 said:


> I want Isaiah Thomas to *not* draft Brandon Bass. I know his affinity for undersized PF's...


Hey, the Knicks had undersized PF's before IT got here. At least Mo Taylor is a legit 6'9". I don't think we'll be drafting an undersized anything...


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## urwhatueati8god (May 27, 2003)

Tapseer said:


> Oi! Outside of quitting, what should he do? If it was me, I'm trying to get bigger and better more athletic. I'll see about buying Memphis 1st rd pick at 19, get a psych to evaluate Kwame Brown. If they say he can handle playing in NY, I would take him. If I could get both of the above, then I'll take that Green kid at 8, and I should still be able to get a big man at 19. I'll also go with a big at 30. Now I know a lot of people like Hakim Warrick amd he might be available around 19, but if you already have Green and Ariza, drafting Hakim there means Ariza would have to go and you haven't addressed the big man problem. You can try to move up in the 2nd rd, but if you do the above, you can draft a Euro who can stay oversees for the next year or two. After doing the draft, we still have a butt load of PF's on the roster and we should be able to move one or two of them for something/anything i.e a veteran or future draft picks and we still have expiring contracts. There are just so many possibilities, I just can't why some people are full of DOOM and GLOOM?


NO MORE ATHLETECISM. Marbury is athletic. Crawford is athletic. Tim Thomas is athletic. All three of those guys' teams went on to be better without them. Sign some fundamental players. I want some Euros.


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## Keith Closs (May 13, 2003)

being athletic is the most overrated cliche isiah uses all the damn time, how "athletic" are the spurs?


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## Keith Closs (May 13, 2003)

Tapseer said:


> I feel you truth. Listen I hate having a crappy team just like everyone else, but I am actually looking forward to the offseason. I feel when everything is said and done, we will be a balanced team, a more athletic team and more importantly a bigger team. This is the first offseason in a long time the Knicks actually have some pieces to do things. I trust IT to do the right thing to make us a Championship contender. We can lay the foundation down for the future while still being competitive now. We took a step back this year, but this team is not far from being good. A couple of players, a good coach the players repsect and will play hard for and we're in there.


a couple of these players the knicks need dont grow on trees, and the knicks dont have the cap space or tradeable playeers to pull it off..


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## Tapseer (Jun 13, 2002)

Keith Closs said:


> a couple of these players the knicks need dont grow on trees, and the knicks dont have the cap space or tradeable playeers to pull it off..


The Knicks don't worry about cap space, the know the situation they are in. That being said, the Knicks DO have TRADEABLE players. They almost were able to trade KT for Drew Gooden and Ilgauskas this past season. The reason why it didn't go down was because of the pending sale of the team. KT has value around the league. Malik Rose has value and a manageable contract which teams could afford. You have the expiring contracts of TT and Penny Hardaway, for teams looking to start a fire sale, so the Knicks do have pieces to improve the team this summer. You athletic guys who can do things with the ball. Let's take a look at un- athletic KT. His jumper is deadly, but you have seen him on fast break opportunities...he is a liablity. KT has no vertical lift for the put back. I like a few Euros. I like Fran Vasquez, I like what I have been hearing about him from people who said they have seen him play. After Vasquez, I like Splitter. There are a couple of Euro SF's whose names I don't know who appear to be interesting, but I want to build my frontline of the future thru the draft. I'm saying the time is now to do it.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

Keith Closs said:


> being athletic is the most overrated cliche isiah uses all the damn time, how "athletic" are the spurs?


tim duncan is pretty darn athletic, tony parker is as quick as they come , brent barry has won the nba dunk contest.

there is also manu, robert horry and beno udrih.

they dont have any josh smith's on the roster , but you can't just outrun and gun them proven today in the conf. finals in in the finals a couple of years ago against the nets.


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## Keith Closs (May 13, 2003)

disgruntledKNICKfan said:


> tim duncan is pretty darn athletic, tony parker is as quick as they come , brent barry has won the nba dunk contest.
> 
> there is also manu, robert horry and beno udrih.
> 
> they dont have any josh smith's on the roster , but you can't just outrun and gun them proven today in the conf. finals in in the finals a couple of years ago against the nets.


my point ia the spurs arent proably evne top 10 in terms of pure athleticism..

having a team full of great athletes is not how u build a team.. a lack of athleticism is far from the knicks biggest problem..


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

Keith Closs said:


> my point ia the spurs arent proably evne top 10 in terms of pure athleticism..
> 
> having a team full of great athletes is not how u build a team.. a lack of athleticism is far from the knicks biggest problem..



actually it is, the lack of athletes in the posts leads to other problems, for one the knicks are last in the league in shotblocking , they dont have anyone who can even make you miss a shot let alone block one.

the spurs have athletes on the interior , they also have size on the inside , the knicks have neither. its very hard to have a decent defensive team without at least one of those.

the perimeter players except ariza and jermaine jackson are not good defenders meaning teams can get inside on them and score much easier than against most teams , against the spurs if you get by a guard(not easy) you have to shoot over any combination of robert horry , tim duncan , rasho nesterovic or nazr mohammed ...

duncan, rasho or nazr would lead the knicks in shotblocking if they were on the knicks roster and horry would be right behind the knicks leader at .80 compared to kurt's .99 ....but horry plays more than 10 less minutes a game if he played as much as kurt he should block more.

and its not just kurt , the next highest knick in shotblocking would be sweetney at 0.36 a game that is not ideal for a power forward, they need someone to affect shots on the inside and there are no undersized players who aren't athletic in the nba who can do that.

so yes the knicks need athletes, maybe they dont have to stock their team with them but they still need more.


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## Biggestfanoftheknicks (Apr 14, 2005)

Heh, I wish we had the spurs Euro-scouts working for us. The Mavericks and the spurs have the best scouts in all of basketball. Anyway I disagree with anyone who says that spurs are not athletic, I think they are one of the more athletic teams in the league, probably upper top 10. 

However, they have an amazing system that everyone adheres too, and, parker, Gino, and Tim never ever force shots. They all have real high basketball IQ. That is what makes them so dangerous.

Look seriously at Tony Parker, It is easy to make a case that he is not even in the top 5 at his position. Steph certainly abuses him every time they play, yet, Tony parker has the ring. One of the things the spurs have done well is to avoid anyone who has a me first attitude. All of their players are excellent passers, which leads to near perfect shot selection. This is combined with nearly EVERYONE save Mohammed being able to hit an outside shot very easily, and some quick athletic players.


I think what Keith Closs is saying is that he doesn't want players who don't ha ve good teammate qualities and who have high basketball IQ, rather than those who can dominate their position but can't take off the ME ME ME blinders for stretches of games.


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## Keith Closs (May 13, 2003)

Biggestfanoftheknicks said:


> I think what Keith Closs is saying is that he doesn't want players who don't ha ve good teammate qualities and who have high basketball IQ, rather than those who can dominate their position but can't take off the ME ME ME blinders for stretches of games.


thats exactly my point..steph and jamal are athletically and as physically gifted as any backourt but there basketball iq is horrendous..

we need smarter ball players..especially players who are willign to attempt to play defense..we do need maybe more athleticism in the frontcourt ill buy that were we have none with kurt..but at the same time he needs to be a smart player who can time shots to block them..just having an athletic freak in the frontcourt isnt gonna help if he posses no skills i.e.a stephen hunter..


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

Keith Closs said:


> thats exactly my point..steph and jamal are athletically and as physically gifted as any backourt but there basketball iq is horrendous..
> 
> we need smarter ball players..especially players who are willign to attempt to play defense..we do need maybe more athleticism in the frontcourt ill buy that were we have none with kurt..but at the same time he needs to be a smart player who can time shots to block them..just having an athletic freak in the frontcourt isnt gonna help if he posses no skills i.e.a stephen hunter..



i'll agree that the knicks need to be smarter , but a team like the spurs also has great coaching, with great sets with a sys. in place for years, they have a stability the knicks can only dream of . Players aren't me 1st because the coaching wont let them be that way , they took in glenn robinson and had no problem , made him into an offensive spark off the bench.

If a player wont listen, he sits on the spurs , it helps that tim duncan just is a team 1st guy and his mentality as well trickles down, but the spurs have always been like that even before duncan , with david robinson and even terry cummings , the team just fosters the type of atmosphere where they work together.

i'm not saying get an athlete just for the sake of it, but the knicks have to get a guy who fits in and gives them that element of shotblocking and intimidation , if he can block shots but cant play because he sucks , he is no more useful than bruno sundov and whatever skills he may have rotting on the bench. the guy has to be at least passable offensively, nazr-like at least. to be able to convert off of dishes and the boards.

against some teams kurt thomas is an extremely useful weapon because of his rebounding, man to man defense and jumpshot pulling other centers away from the basket....but against other teams he is exposed as too small and unathletic, the knicks need a guy who essentially sits kurt and leaves him in his ideal role as a backup 4/5 , where his flaws cant be exposed because if the 4/5 he is guarding were so good they would be starting, 
there are no amare's coming off of benches , but in the atlantic there are mark blount , marc jackson, jason collins and whoever is the raptors backup woods or sow, guys who are usually ok players who are either too unskilled or immoble to handle kurt and his skillset. and starting kurt against centers for so many min. against guys so much bigger than him wears him down.

and adequate center would do wonders for the knicks in that regard, it would strengthen their starting unit and their bench immediately.

the same thing goes for jamal at the 2 guard he ideally on the knicks should be coming off the bench as a 1/2, it would give marbury the rest he needs , because even though he had knee problems he played 40 min. a night because the knicks had no real options to go to, crawford had to play the 2 and provide another scoring option, even though he is too light to be a fulltime 2 at the moment, 

how many teams can boast a guard of crawford's ability off the bench?

i am hoping if no deals are pulled off ariza can handle the job, he was hitting the corner trey at the end of the season, plays defense, runs the floor and is a reasonable passer and ballhandler, most players make the most improvement between their 1st and 2nd years , if he can make a nice jump in improvement he can sit crawford enough that he can spell marbury consistently and keep him to the 34-36 min. range .

marbury would be fresher and the knicks would be a better team for it. you would be amazed how much smarter a team looks when it wins.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

> Sign some fundamental players.


how about we atart with a fundamentally sound coach with a system..

Look at the Spurs,pacers and especially detroit...

the pacers lost Artest,Jackson,Oneil for a long strech and Tinsley got injured..Yet they made the playoffs and gave detroit all they could handle..Walsh,Bird and Carlisle..The Spurs with Popovitch??The guy gets the most of his players and if you step moutside the system,you get benched..

Detroit??Every time i watch them i scratch my head and wonder why and how are they so dam good..Coach Brown is the best in the business and he utilises every player to the max...

I honestly do not know why herb is the front runner..We stunk under him..Its not like he took over and had the same effect as George karl or Mike fratello..Those guys really turned their respective teams around.

If we dont get a great coach in here with a system,and some clue as to what each gus strength and weakness is,i dont care who we draft,we are screwed...

BTW,wouldnt it makes some sense to have the coach in place before the draft??if we dont just fire Zeke


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