# Update: Timberwolves' Andrew Wiggins Named 2015 NBA Kia Rookie of the Year



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

I'm hearing lots of people try to throw Mirotic as the ROY front runner and it's honestly made me annoyed enough to make a thread about it. 

On Bill Simmons latest pod cast Zach Low says it _has_ to be Mirotic right now. He's averaging 8 and 5. Wiggins on the other hand has 20+ points in 7 of his last 8 games and is really looking like he's coming into his own now. 

To me Mirotic is undoubtedly the surprise rookie of the season, and second to his teammate Jimmy Butler as just general feel good surprise of the year. That being said, lets quit trying to preemptively hand out individual awards to congratulate the Bulls on returning to an honest to goodness title contender. 

Maybe its just me, but to act like Wiggins isn't running away with this since Parker went down is foolish.


----------



## Kreutz35 (Dec 23, 2011)

*Re: 2015 NBA ROY Discussion*

Unless Wiggins pulls a Jabari and gets a season ending injury, he will win ROY. I normally really respect what Zach Lowe has to say, but he's just plain wrong here.


----------



## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

*Re: 2015 NBA ROY Discussion*

It's Wiggins' award to lose. But Mirotic is getting a ton of notice because his team is always in the spotlight whereas the Wolves are not. Mirotic is good, though. But he's not the ROY.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: 2015 NBA ROY Discussion*



Kreutz35 said:


> Unless Wiggins pulls a Jabari and gets a season ending injury, he will win ROY. I normally really respect what Zach Lowe has to say, but he's just plain wrong here.


Agreed. Zach and Bill both tend to get excited over whatever the new exciting story is so I'm not surprised. 


On a side note, I think by the end of the year Jusuf Nurkic will make himself mentionable in the discussion now that he has the starting role in Denver. 

I really wanted Indiana to trade up to pick him.


----------



## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: 2015 NBA ROY Discussion*

I'm pretty sure Simmons said it has to be Mirotic, but Lowe disagreed with him.


----------



## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

*Re: 2015 NBA ROY Discussion*

On one hand, Mirotic would put up better volume stats on a bottom-of-the-barrel team like the Minny, but on the other, Wiggins would look like _dynamite_ as a 3-and-D guy on a contender like Chicago. It's Wiggins, and it's not close.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: 2015 NBA ROY Discussion*



RollWithEm said:


> I'm pretty sure Simmons said it has to be Mirotic, but Lowe disagreed with him.


Nope. They were talking about it and Simmons said Wiggins has been on fire and Lowe said unless Wiggins plays this kind of basketball for the rest of the season then the award has to go to Mirtoic. Which leads me to believe Lowe has no clue Wiggins is 23 on 52% shooting on his last 5 games with 6 rebounds.


----------



## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

*Re: 2015 NBA ROY Discussion*

Wiggins, no question. He's averaging 23+ a game on 50%+ from the field in his last 5 games, possibly even further back. Excited to watch him develop.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: 2015 NBA ROY Discussion*



bball2223 said:


> Wiggins, no question. He's averaging 23+ a game on 50%+ from the field in his last 5 games, possibly even further back. Excited to watch him develop.


He's finally looking like who we all thought he would be.


----------



## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

*Re: 2015 NBA ROY Discussion*



R-Star said:


> I'm hearing lots of people try to throw Mirotic as the ROY front runner and it's honestly made me annoyed enough to make a thread about it.
> 
> On Bill Simmons latest pod cast Zach Low says it _has_ to be Mirotic right now. He's averaging 8 and 5. Wiggins on the other hand has 20+ points in 7 of his last 8 games and is really looking like he's coming into his own now.


One thing is being a contrarian. Other is being stupid. This is the same as that guy who voted someone like Popeye Jones for the MVP award.
If a guy who is paid to talk/write about basketball were to say it to my face i would punch him in the nose.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: 2015 NBA ROY Discussion*



PauloCatarino said:


> One thing is being a contrarian. Other is being stupid. This is the same as that guy who voted someone like Popeye Jones for the MVP award.
> If a guy who is paid to talk/write about basketball were to say it to my face i would punch him in the nose.


Agreed. You and I should start punching all the sports analysts in the nose.


----------



## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

*2015 NBA ROY Discussion*

Is there anyone else even in the discussion? Every rookie is hurt. Wiggins wins by default, even if he wasn't putting up good numbers.


----------



## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

*Re: 2015 NBA ROY Discussion*

At this point in time Mirotic is far and away the better player, that's all there is to it. You watch the two of them play and it is patently obvious. If you want to argue that Wiggins is putting up garbage stats on a garbage team and that entitles him to be ROY, there's not much reason why it should not honestly. If MCW can captain a garbage scow to the ROY then there's no reason Wiggins can't do that also. 

You can try to make it look like the last five or ten games are great for Wiggins, but you sure as hell aren't talking about the total picture. Wiggins has not been very good.


----------



## 29380 (Feb 23, 2009)

*Re: 2015 NBA ROY Discussion*

Mirotic in his role has been better so far but if Wiggins can keep up this type of consistency he'll end up with the #s to win it.



R-Star said:


> Nope. They were talking about it and Simmons said Wiggins has been on fire and *Lowe said unless Wiggins plays this kind of basketball for the rest of the season then the award has to go to Mirtoic.* Which leads me to believe Lowe has no clue Wiggins is 23 on 52% shooting on his last 5 games with 6 rebounds.


That was Simmons


----------



## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: 2015 NBA ROY Discussion*



R-Star said:


> Nope. They were talking about it and Simmons said Wiggins has been on fire and Lowe said unless Wiggins plays this kind of basketball for the rest of the season then the award has to go to Mirtoic. Which leads me to believe Lowe has no clue Wiggins is 23 on 52% shooting on his last 5 games with 6 rebounds.


http://espn.go.com/espnradio/grantland/player?id=12133836

8:35 mark

Simmons: "I love Mirotic. Mirotic is unquestionably the rookie of the year right now unless Wiggins keeps ripping off these 20 point games."

Lowe: "Yeah I was gonna say, Wiggins has made it a question at least in the last 2 weeks. He's been playing really, really well."

Simmons: "No, he'd have to play that well for the rest of the season to make it a real thing cause Mirotic is playing crunchtime for an excellent team and having a real impact for them..."


There was no doubt that Simmons was significantly higher on him than Lowe.


----------



## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: 2015 NBA ROY Discussion*



PauloCatarino said:


> One thing is being a contrarian. Other is being stupid. This is the same as that guy who voted someone like Popeye Jones for the MVP award.
> 
> If a guy who is paid to talk/write about basketball were to say it to my face i would punch him in the nose.


Who voted for Popeye Jones for MVP?


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: 2015 NBA ROY Discussion*



Diable said:


> At this point in time Mirotic is far and away the better player, that's all there is to it. You watch the two of them play and it is patently obvious. If you want to argue that Wiggins is putting up garbage stats on a garbage team and that entitles him to be ROY, there's not much reason why it should not honestly. If MCW can captain a garbage scow to the ROY then there's no reason Wiggins can't do that also.
> 
> *You can try to make it look like the last five or ten games are great for Wiggins, but you sure as hell aren't talking about the total picture. Wiggins has not been very good.*


He's had 20 or more in 7 of the last 8. 

His numbers for: 
December 12.3 ppg on 39.9% with 3.8 rpg and 1apg. 
January 14.6 ppg on 40.9% with 4.1 rpg and 1.8apg.
February 23ppg on 52.1% with 6rpg and 2.5 apg. 

Obviously I expect his February numbers to come back down a bit, but he is clearly getting better with every game. Plus he is an amazing defender for a 19 year old rookie. 


Mirotic on the other hand is 23 and while playing on a better defensive team by no means plays better defense himself. He's the teams what? 5th or 6th option and faces far less coverage than Wiggins does who shares primary coverage with Shabazz. All the while he's averaging 8 and 5. Oh but wait, its on much better shooting percentage right? No. He's at 42.6% to Wiggins 42.5% for the year. 

People want to act like somehow Mirotic deserves all the praise for Chicago's success. In the last 10 games he's had 2 games with 2 points, one with 3, and 1 with 5. And its been like that the whole year as far as inconsistency. He puts up decent numbers and the Bulls win he gets fawned over because he makes a deep team that much deeper. Great team player. He puts up a 2 point game and the Bulls either win and no one talks about it, or they lose and people say "Well they were bound to lose one at some point" and he gets a pass.

The guy is playing 19 minutes a game on a stacked powerhouse team. Let's calm down for a minute and quit acting like there's even a semblance of an argument you can make for him as ROY. There is none.


----------



## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

*Re: 2015 NBA ROY Discussion*



RollWithEm said:


> Who voted for Popeye Jones for MVP?



It wasn't Popeyes Jones. It was P.J. Brown who got the vote for the 2004-2005 season.


----------



## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: 2015 NBA ROY Discussion*



Basel said:


> It wasn't Popeyes Jones. It was P.J. Brown who got the vote for the 2004-2005 season.


Jimmy Smith lost his vote after that. What does he have to do with Zach Lowe, though.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: 2015 NBA ROY Discussion*



RollWithEm said:


> http://espn.go.com/espnradio/grantland/player?id=12133836
> 
> 8:35 mark
> 
> ...


Ahh. I heard it the other way around for some reason. Thanks for clarifying. 

Good to hear, because I kind of like Zach Lowe as he seems to stand by his opinion compared to Simmons who shamelessly changes his pick in the playoffs to whoever won the last game. How he can do it with a straight face is beyond me.


----------



## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

*Re: 2015 NBA ROY Discussion*



RollWithEm said:


> Jimmy Smith lost his vote after that. What does he have to do with Zach Lowe, though.



Nothing. Paulo is just talking out of his ass.


----------



## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: 2015 NBA ROY Discussion*

Just so everyone knows, some idiot from New Orleans who knows nothing about basketball and has some twisted political views once voted for PJ Brown for MVP for some unknown reason. The NBA took away his right to vote on the award the following season. This has nothing to do with Zach Lowe.


----------



## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

*Re: 2015 NBA ROY Discussion*



RollWithEm said:


> Just so everyone knows, some idiot from New Orleans who knows nothing about basketball and has some twisted political views once voted for PJ Brown for MVP for some unknown reason. The NBA took away his right to vote on the award the following season. This has nothing to do with Zach Lowe.



The reason is not unknown. 

From Smith: “It was meant to be a symbolic gesture so that people would notice Brown’s quiet contributions.”


----------



## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

*Re: 2015 NBA ROY Discussion*



RollWithEm said:


> Jimmy Smith lost his vote after that. What does he have to do with Zach Lowe, though.


I was using it as an example for someone going waaaaaaay out of the norm to try and prove some obscure and stupid point.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: 2015 NBA ROY Discussion*

I look forward to your response to my post, @Diable


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: 2015 NBA ROY Discussion*



PauloCatarino said:


> I was using it as an example for someone going waaaaaaay out of the norm to try and prove some obscure and stupid point.


Don't worry, I got it even if others did not.


----------



## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

*Re: 2015 NBA ROY Discussion*



Basel said:


> Nothing. Paulo is just talking out of his ass.


Didn't you get my point? should i elaborate any further?


----------



## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

*Re: 2015 NBA ROY Discussion*



PauloCatarino said:


> Didn't you get my point? should i elaborate any further?



Yes.


----------



## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

*Re: 2015 NBA ROY Discussion*



Basel said:


> Yes.


Didn't like that smilye at the end.


----------



## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

*Re: 2015 NBA ROY Discussion*



R-Star said:


> I look forward to your response to my post, @Diable


 @Jamel Irief It begins........



Jamel Irief said:


> Do you ever look at a thread, wonder why it blew up randomly and then open it and say "of course, R-star" ?


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: 2015 NBA ROY Discussion*



Bogg said:


> @Jamel Irief It begins........


Only if it were another poster. @Diable has made a career out of making stupid claims and then refusing to renter the thread when called out on it. If he feels he can come back in and elaborate on saying "At this point in time Mirotic is far and away the better player", I look forward to it.

I'm not holding my breath, although I do love this new @What'sHisFace function. Makes calling people out so much easier.


----------



## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: 2015 NBA ROY Discussion*



PauloCatarino said:


> Didn't you get my point? should i elaborate any further?


Your point got caught in his eyebrow.


----------



## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

*Re: 2015 NBA ROY Discussion*

Anyone who can't tell that Mirotic is a better player needs to get their eyes checked. Wiggins has an 11 PER. That's awful. He's the best player on a team that's won once in it's last 20 games, except that the ghost of Mo Williams might be better right now. Couldn't Mo Williams score exactly the same way Wiggins has if he were the primary option on that trainwreck?


----------



## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

*Re: 2015 NBA ROY Discussion*



Diable said:


> Anyone who can't tell that Mirotic is a better player needs to get their eyes checked. Wiggins has an 11 PER. That's awful. He's the best player on a team that's won once in it's last 20 games, except that the ghost of Mo Williams might be better right now. Couldn't Mo Williams score exactly the same way Wiggins has if he were the primary option on that trainwreck?


lol. 
Are you really advocating for a rookie that hasn't started but ONE game in the NBA? 
Are you comparing a guy that plays 18mpg against the subs of the opposite team to a guy that plays 30mpg against top notch competition?


----------



## BobStackhouse42 (Oct 7, 2010)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*

Nerlens Noel? If he was any good wouldn't he win this award?


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: 2015 NBA ROY Discussion*



Diable said:


> Anyone who can't tell that Mirotic is a better player needs to get their eyes checked. Wiggins has an 11 PER. That's awful. He's the best player on a team that's won once in it's last 20 games, except that the ghost of Mo Williams might be better right now. Couldn't Mo Williams score exactly the same way Wiggins has if he were the primary option on that trainwreck?


So if Mirotic and Wiggins changed places the Wolves would win more games and he'd be putting up better stats?

That's laughable because he wouldn't even be the Wolves number one option to begin with. 

Why is it you refused to touch any of my points? The defensive attention Wiggins receives as compared to Nikola is meaningless? Their respective teams and said quality of their teammates don't account for anything? 

The fact Nikola isn't even shooting better than Wiggins even though Andrew is the number one option and Mirotic's 5-8th or wherever he fits doesn't matter?

The fact you said Wiggins has been playing like shit outside of the last 5 games and I proved you wrong doesn't matter?


Man Diable, it's really easy to understand why you're going to run from this thread. Stick to shitty jazz music, because your basketball opinion is ****ing junk.


----------



## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*

I really just wish Vonleh, Embiid, Randle, and Saric were on the floor making this an interesting rookie of the year race.


----------



## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



RollWithEm said:


> I really just wish Vonleh, Embiid, Randle, and Saric were on the floor making this an interesting rookie of the year race.



Me too.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: 2015 NBA ROY Discussion*



PauloCatarino said:


> lol.
> Are you really advocating for a rookie that hasn't started but ONE game in the NBA?
> Are you comparing a guy that plays 18mpg against the subs of the opposite team to a guy that plays 30mpg against top notch competition?


What I find funny is that Mirotic has had a few games where he's played minutes closing out games in the 4th and that is a huge check mark beside his name. Yet Wiggins plays those minutes all year night in and out and since his team is shit its a mark against him.

Rose, Butler, Gasol, Noah and Gibson are all better than any single player on the Wolves with Rubio and Pekovic out. But Nikola Mirotic plays 18 minutes per game on one of the deepest teams in the league so he gets credit for all the Bulls wins and Wiggins is at fault for every Wolves loss even though his team is laughably bereft of talent. 

Makes sense.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



RollWithEm said:


> I really just wish Vonleh, Embiid, Randle, and Saric were on the floor making this an interesting rookie of the year race.


It's been a crazy year for rookie injury. At least Embiid is making us laugh on twitter.


----------



## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



R-Star said:


> It's been a crazy year for rookie injury. At least Embiid is making us laugh on twitter.


Aaron Gordon was also starting off fairly good before he got hurt. Smart has missed a bunch of time. And then guys like Otto Porter and Dante Exum have disappointed a touch despite looking like they will be solid pros down the line.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



RollWithEm said:


> Aaron Gordon was also starting off fairly good before he got hurt. Smart has missed a bunch of time. And then guys like Otto Porter and Dante Exum have disappointed a touch despite looking like they will be solid pros down the line.


Yep. I don't like Smart, but he sure can't catch a break. I feel bad for him.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*

As a side note, Nikola Mirotic's PER is higher than a rookie Kevin Durant, clearly meaning that "Anyone who can't tell that Mirotic is a better player needs to get their eyes checked." as per Diable. 

Guess ol Kev wouldn't have won the ROY back in 08 if Mirotic was there.


----------



## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*

Unless Wiggins hurt himself this month, I think he has the award won already. His offensive game kind of remind me of DeRozan's first couple of years. Wiggins is a better shooter than DeRozan but both lacked handles when they first entered the league. If Wiggins can make similar progress on ballhandling he can turn into a very good scorer.


----------



## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



R-Star said:


> As a side note, Nikola Mirotic's PER is higher than a rookie Kevin Durant, clearly meaning that "Anyone who can't tell that Mirotic is a better player needs to get their eyes checked." as per Diable.
> 
> Guess ol Kev wouldn't have won the ROY back in 08 if Mirotic was there.



You could probably come up with an argument that made you look like more of a fool if you tried. The simple fact is that if anyone was having a decent year they'd win it. Try comparing Wiggins and his current performance to any player who ever won the award that was not MCW. Try comparing him to Durant as a rookie since that is the measuring stick. Hell compare him to Greg Oden, he probably wouldn't come out awesome in that either.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



Diable said:


> You could probably come up with an argument that made you look like more of a fool if you tried. The simple fact is that if anyone was having a decent year they'd win it. Try comparing Wiggins and his current performance to any player who ever won the award that was not MCW. Try comparing him to Durant as a rookie since that is the measuring stick.


I can't use MCW? Why not. Please elaborate. Can I use Brandon Roy? What about Mike Miller?

While you're at it, show me a ROY who won getting 8 and 5. 

You calling me a fool? ****ing priceless Diable. 


How many posts do you have left? While I'm asking questions, why is it we both know you won't answer any of the questions I'm asking in your followup post by the way? That's weird isn't it?


----------



## Bubbles (Nov 12, 2005)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



RollWithEm said:


> I really just wish Vonleh, Embiid, Randle, and Saric were on the floor making this an interesting rookie of the year race.


Parker and Gordon too.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



Bubbles said:


> Parker and Gordon too.


I'm actually quite surprised Milwaukee hasn't really missed a beat without Parker. I hate the guy and trashed him all last year and during the summer, but Jason Kidd is proving me wrong as a coach.


----------



## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*

Granted, I've only seen a couple of Wolves games, but I think Wiggins is a lot better on defense than most rookies. He has good mechanics on his shot and they're finally starting to fall. He is too athletic and gifted to not be slashing and driving more than he does, but he clearly has a passive mind state so it'll take him a bit longer to become aggressive. That's just how he is wired. 

Not the most immediately dominant rookie class, but I think Wiggins is worthy of the title if he stays the course.


----------



## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



Sir Patchwork said:


> Granted, I've only seen a couple of Wolves games, but I think Wiggins is a lot better on defense than most rookies. He has good mechanics on his shot and they're finally starting to fall. He is too athletic and gifted to not be slashing and driving more than he does, but he clearly has a passive mind state so it'll take him a bit longer to become aggressive. That's just how he is wired.
> 
> Not the most immediately dominant rookie class, but I think Wiggins is worthy of the title if he stays the course.


Wiggins is better defensively than a lot of players, period; not just the rookies.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



Basel said:


> Wiggins is better defensively than a lot of players, period; not just the rookies.


A young Scottie Pippen.


----------



## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



Basel said:


> Wiggins is better defensively than a lot of players, period; not just the rookies.


Like I said, I haven't seen him play but a few games this year, but I was impressed with his defense for the most part. He makes rookie mistakes defensively, but obviously that's because he is a rookie. He has potential to be both a lock down defender and great help defender. 

He seems really Paul George-ish at this point.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



Sir Patchwork said:


> Like I said, I haven't seen him play but a few games this year, but I was impressed with his defense for the most part. He makes rookie mistakes defensively, but obviously that's because he is a rookie. He has potential to be both a lock down defender and great help defender.
> 
> He seems really Paul George-ish at this point.


A lot of guys were comparing him to George on draft day, and I think its a good comparison. He's a shut down defender who can do it all on that end, and looks to be a gifted scorer with a complete lack of the cold blooded alpha dog mindset that a Kobe or Lebron have. Sounds exactly like Paul George to me. 

Could contend as a number one option on a deep stacked team, or more likely be a number 2 option on a championship caliber team in my opinion.


----------



## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*

Because @R-Star's ongoing feud with advanced metrics never gets old to me.....

http://espn.go.com/chicago/nba/story/_/id/12138424/chicago-bulls-rookie-nikola-mirotic-making-big-impact



> Mirotic is averaging 15.6 points and 9.8 rebounds per 36 minutes. If he continues at that pace he would become the first rookie in Bulls history to accomplish that feat while also playing at least 10 minutes a game. To that point, the past five rookies to do that while playing at least 15 minutes a game are an impressive list of young big men:* Anthony Davis, DeMarcus Cousins, Blake Griffin, Yao Ming and Tim Duncan*.
> 
> ...
> 
> ...


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



Bogg said:


> Because @R-Star's ongoing feud with advanced metrics never gets old to me.....
> 
> http://espn.go.com/chicago/nba/story/_/id/12138424/chicago-bulls-rookie-nikola-mirotic-making-big-impact


I've seen the article. I'm one of the top comments on there right now. I quit replying when someone told me if Wiggins was on the Bulls he'd struggle to get as many minutes as Tony Snell who averages 8 minutes and 1.9 points a game.

You can show advanced metrics to prove anything in todays NBA. Brandon Wright was just traded for a probable 2 second round picks and hes 10th in the league in PER. With the way some people masturbate over the relevance of Hollinger based stats I guess this Brandon Wright trade may go down as one of the biggest one sided steals of the past 50 years.

The bottom line is Mirotic is putting up these stats playing behind Noah, Gasol and Taj Gibson. People say "He plays in the 4th! He plays in the 4th!" not over Gasol or Noah he doesn't. Gibsons been injured, and of course Gasol or Noah are going to get a rest here and there. And if hes playing minutes at the 3 over world beater Mike Dunleavy JR forgive me if I'm not impressed.

People like to compare him to Dirk and that's great and all, but Dirk came in as a 19/20 year old rookie. Not a seasoned professional at 23. 

Obviously these comments aren't directed at you Bogg. It's just the stupidity of the company I keep in this sport disturbs me. That article just compared Mirotic to: Anthony Davis, DeMarcus Cousins, Blake Griffin, Yao Ming, Tim Duncan, Dirk Nowitzki, Hedo Turkoglu Wilt Chamberlain, Michael Jordan, Oscar Robertson, David Robinson and Walt Bellamy. So forgive me for my crassness, but there's a reason I told the articles writer Nick Friedell to eat a dick.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*

The Bulls are down 11 with 5 left in the 4th. Here's betting Mirotic doesn't get that crunch time everyone keeps pretending he's getting.


----------



## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



R-Star said:


> I've seen the article. I'm one of the top comments on there right now. I quit replying when someone told me if Wiggins was on the Bulls he'd struggle to get as many minutes as Tony Snell who averages 8 minutes and 1.9 points a game.
> 
> You can show advanced metrics to prove anything in todays NBA. Brandon Wright was just traded for a probable 2 second round picks and hes 10th in the league in PER. With the way some people masturbate over the relevance of Hollinger based stats I guess this Brandon Wright trade may go down as one of the biggest one sided steals of the past 50 years.
> 
> ...


How did you feel about the guy who compared Wiggins to Ron Mercer? I bet you have an opinion about that.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



Bogg said:


> How did you feel about the guy who compared Wiggins to Ron Mercer? I bet you have an opinion about that.


I have an opinion about a lot of things. As much as I hate this forum at times due to peoples opinions, it's like comparing Harvard to a place that teaches mentally challenged hillbillies when you compare it to the cesspool that is ESPN. 

****ing Ron Mercer. Or a guy saying any 2 guard in the league would do better than Wiggins is currently doing and people actually like the post. Idiots. ****ing idiots. I need to just leave that place alone.


----------



## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*

i'll give somewhat of a pass since it's ESPN Chicago for presumably a bunch of homers. 

My favorite comment:

Original comment:


> "He will be a good player in the NBA for a few years, but he will never make an all star team or anything"


Response:


> He's playing at an all-star level RIGHT NOW lol


All-star? He's like the 5th or 6th best player on his team.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



Sir Patchwork said:


> i'll give somewhat of a pass since it's ESPN Chicago for presumably a bunch of homers.
> 
> My favorite comment:
> 
> ...


Yea, it's nonsense. And if you reply to the guy saying he's an allstar and try to reason with him, you get jumped on by 10 other idiots. One guy honestly said Mirotic is playing like Nowitzki, only bigger. Now, forget for a minute that that's just factually not true and Nowitzki is actually 2 inches taller and 25 pounds heavier. He means he actually thinks Mirotic is playing at Nowitzki's level _right now_. And there's nothing you can say to change his mind, because as it turns out anyone who doesn't agree is a hater and is just jealous of the Bulls.


You know who the real idiot is in all of this? Me. For having multiple posts on that article.


----------



## KFitz14 (Jun 3, 2014)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



R-Star said:


> The Bulls are down 11 with 5 left in the 4th. Here's betting Mirotic doesn't get that crunch time everyone keeps pretending he's getting.


The Bulls were noticeably better with him (and the rest of the bench) on the court. Maybe that's just because the Wizards' bench sucks, but they could have used his shooting and he couldn't have done much worse against Nene than how Noah was faring at the end of the game. At the very least he would have opened things up by spacing the floor and stopping Nene from mugging the Bulls' other big.

Don't act like he's just another role player feeding off of the success of the team. Exaggerated comparisons aside, he will likely be a starter in this league, and a good one at that. Wiggins will almost definitely win the award because he has impressively picked things up as of late (though look for a dark horse run by Nurkic a la Dieng last year). But the _reasonable_ praise for Mirotic is for good reason.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



KFitz14 said:


> The Bulls were noticeably better with him (and the rest of the bench) on the court. Maybe that's just because the Wizards' bench sucks, but they could have used his shooting and he couldn't have done much worse against Nene than how Noah was faring at the end of the game. At the very least he would have opened things up by spacing the floor and stopping Nene from mugging the Bulls' other big.
> 
> Don't act like he's just another role player feeding off of the success of the team. Exaggerated comparisons aside, he will likely be a starter in this league, and a good one at that. Wiggins will almost definitely win the award because he has impressively picked things up as of late (though look for a dark horse run by Nurkic a la Dieng last year). But the _reasonable_ praise for Mirotic is for good reason.


I agree that the reasonable praise for Mirotic is for good reason. It's well deserved. I personally think that it should be viewed as a stoke of genius that the Bulls got him for what they did, and that he is absolutely a huge story line in the Bulls success this year. He's been fantastic at the role he plays. 

For some though, that is not enough. He should be ROY. And then come the stories of how he's out there every single close game in the 4th quarter because the Bulls trust him so much and blah blah blah. No. I'm all for living in reality, but I'm not for making up fanciful stories that just plain aren't true. If the game is on the line and the team is healthy, he isn't getting major crunch time minutes over Gasol or Noah. And you know what? Not many players in the league would. They're some of the best guys at their position, it is not a mark against Mirotic with me stating that. I just don't understand the insistence on living in a fantasy world. That's all there is to it.


----------



## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*

I think the misuse of statistics is what bothers me most. I'm an advocate of every kind of stat out there with the understanding that they are not there to form our opinion for us but as reference and to provide a clearer picture on what is actually happening. For every statistic, there is a context it needs to be placed in. 

So extrapolating 18 minutes per game out to 36 minutes and cherry-picking your parameters is a very irresponsible way to big-up your team's rookie using statistics. It's not hard to do.


----------



## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



Sir Patchwork said:


> I think the misuse of statistics is what bothers me most. I'm an advocate of every kind of stat out there with the understanding that they are not there to form our opinion for us but as reference and to provide a clearer picture on what is actually happening. For every statistic, there is a context it needs to be placed in.
> 
> So extrapolating 18 minutes per game out to 36 minutes and cherry-picking your parameters is a very irresponsible way to big-up your team's rookie using statistics. It's not hard to do.


Didn'y you know? According to PER, Carlos Boozer is a better player than Serge Ibaka!


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



Sir Patchwork said:


> I think the misuse of statistics is what bothers me most. I'm an advocate of every kind of stat out there with the understanding that they are not there to form our opinion for us but as reference and to provide a clearer picture on what is actually happening. For every statistic, there is a context it needs to be placed in.
> 
> So extrapolating 18 minutes per game out to 36 minutes and cherry-picking your parameters is a very irresponsible way to big-up your team's rookie using statistics. It's not hard to do.


ESPN.com disagreed when I said that and told me his shooting percentage would actually go up if he were playing 36 minutes a game as a starter. Supposedly "anyone who watches basketball knows that."

I also disagree with using PER numbers to compare a #1 rookie scoring option to a guy playing limited minutes sheltered on the bench and acting like it's concrete proof whom the better player is like @Diable attempted to do.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



PauloCatarino said:


> Didn'y you know? According to PER, Carlos Boozer is a better player than Serge Ibaka!


Brandan Wright is the 10th best player in the league.


----------



## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*

On a fun side note, I just downloaded data for all seasons since 2004-2005. I'm going to have fun with filters and come up with some other gems.


----------



## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*

Did you guys know: 
Enes Kanter in 2012-2013 is the only player to play at least 15 minutes per game in at least 70 games while averaging at least 16.9 points, 10.2 rebounds, 1.1 blocks shooting 54.4% or higher from field per 36 minutes in the past 10 years? 

Beast.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



Sir Patchwork said:


> Did you guys know:
> Enes Kanter in 2012-2013 is the only player to play at least 15 minutes per game in at least 70 games while averaging at least 16.9 points, 10.2 rebounds, 1.1 blocks shooting 54.4% or higher from field per 36 minutes in the past 10 years?
> 
> Beast.


Funny thing is, a lot of guys would use that in a post or an article with a straight face and act like it's a solid stat.


----------



## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*

Kendall Marshall, Steve Nash and Chris Paul. Only players since 2004-2005 to average 11 assists and 3.5 or less turnovers in a season season per 36 minutes while playing at least 15 games. 

Didn't know Marshall was so good.


----------



## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



R-Star said:


> Funny thing is, a lot of guys would use that in a post or an article with a straight face and act like it's a solid stat.


There are so many statistical categories that you can just filter down the stats you want until you get the desired result.


----------



## rynobot (Oct 10, 2002)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*

WIGGINS! He is starting to look good out there. He's only going to get better the next 3 months too.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



rynobot said:


> WIGGINS! He is starting to look good out there. He's only going to get better the next 3 months too.


You don't think Nikola Mirotic is better?


----------



## rynobot (Oct 10, 2002)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



R-Star said:


> You don't think Nikola Mirotic is better?


He might be better, however with Noah and Gasol ahead of him he will not be able to get the minutes to put up the stats which will win him ROY. Wiggins is getting more and more opportunities every game. Wiggins stats are on the rise. As the weeks pass more and more people will start to notice him every game. He is growing before our eyes. I can't wait to see him next year. Just imagine Wiggins and Rubio together!


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



rynobot said:


> He might be better, however with Noah and Gasol ahead of him he will not be able to get the minutes to put up the stats which will win him ROY. Wiggins is getting more and more opportunities every game. Wiggins stats are on the rise. As the weeks pass more and more people will start to notice him every game. He is growing before our eyes. I can't wait to see him next year. Just imagine Wiggins and Rubio together!


I think they're dumping Rubio first chance they get. Minny is yet again in a total rebuild. If they get a top 3 pick they're pairing Wiggins up with one of the top big men of the draft, running with Levine at the point, and trading Rubio and Pekovic for draft picks or young talent if they can find a suitable deal.


----------



## rynobot (Oct 10, 2002)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*

I thought they just extended Rubio last year. Pekovic is horrible and doesnt have much trade value.


----------



## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: 2015 NBA ROY Discussion*



R-Star said:


> Agreed. Zach and Bill both tend to get excited over whatever the new exciting story is so I'm not surprised.
> 
> 
> On a side note, I think by the end of the year Jusuf Nurkic will make himself mentionable in the discussion now that he has the starting role in Denver.
> ...




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/553948108946964481
I like his game a lot too, plus trash talking Cousins makes me like him even more.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: 2015 NBA ROY Discussion*



hobojoe said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/553948108946964481
> I like his game a lot too, plus trash talking Cousins makes me like him even more.


It's pretty clear. Nurkic's a ****ing gangster bro.


----------



## turkeysub (Jan 17, 2015)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*

Mirotic is just getting so much love because he's on a really good team. Granted, he's playing really well in a small role on the Bulls, but the ROY traditionally goes to the rookie who puts up the biggest stats, and that has been Wiggins by a mile. He's going to win because he has been a top option on a bad team, while Mirotic is the 8th best player on his team.


----------



## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*

Bruno Caboclo.


----------



## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



turkeysub said:


> Mirotic is just getting so much love because he's on a really good team. Granted, he's playing really well in a small role on the Bulls, but the ROY traditionally goes to the rookie who puts up the biggest stats, and that has been Wiggins by a mile. He's going to win because he has been a top option on a bad team, while Mirotic is the 8th best player on his team.


The Mirotic talk is winding down. In the last 10 games, he is averaging 7.5ppg on atrocious percentages and 4.1rpg. That's not ROY material by any stretch of imagination.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



PauloCatarino said:


> The Mirotic talk is winding down. In the last 10 games, he is averaging 7.5ppg on atrocious percentages and 4.1rpg. That's not ROY material by any stretch of imagination.


I agree. But what does @Diable think?

Diable? Do you still think Mirotic is clearly better than Wiggins?

What's that? No comment? Chalk this up as the 8000th argument Diable ran away from after saying something stupid and refusing to admit he had no idea what he was talking about.


----------



## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*

Wiggins has improved every month. The kid can play. He just has the passive mentality and takes longer to become comfortable. His per month splits show him getting better each month. 

January- 21ppg, 5rpg, 3apg on 48% FG
December- 15ppg, 4rpg, 2apg on 41% FG
November- 12ppg, 4rpg, 1apg on 40% FG

Of course these are simple stats that don't tell the whole story, and his minutes going up have played a part in the increased volume, but as his volume has increased his efficiency has improved. That's a good sign. And even factoring for minutes, his productivity has increased each month.


----------



## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*

I'm not making a ROY case for him, but I've been very happy with Marcus Smart lately. If you throw out his rough-start November stats and start counting when he came back from that ankle injury, his shooting stats are pretty good and he's shown actual point guard level court vision to go with borderline-elite on-ball defense. I'm not sure if he's a point guard or a combo guard, but he's going to be a _really_ solid starter in a year or two.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



Bogg said:


> I'm not making a ROY case for him, but I've been very happy with Marcus Smart lately. If you throw out his rough-start November stats and start counting when he came back from that ankle injury, his shooting stats are pretty good and he's shown actual point guard level court vision to go with borderline-elite on-ball defense. I'm not sure if he's a point guard or a combo guard, but he's going to be a _really_ solid starter in a year or two.


I haven't watched much of the C's. Actually none of them since Rondo was traded. How do Smart and Bradley look out there defensively when they're on the court together? You'd have to assume if the Celtics actually had a rim protector they'd be scary good on the defensive end.


----------



## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



R-Star said:


> I haven't watched much of the C's. Actually none of them since Rondo was traded. How do Smart and Bradley look out there defensively when they're on the court together? You'd have to assume if the Celtics actually had a rim protector they'd be scary good on the defensive end.


Solely off memory, I don't think they're actually playing a ton together, as Brad Stevens seems to have settled on Evan Turner as his lead point guard and Smart's largely been a combo guard off the bench next to Marcus Thornton. 

However, Smart's basically been as advertised on defense - it's difficult to be _too_ disruptive defensively with a Bass/Olynyk frontcourt behind you, as you know if you get beat your man has a free path to the rim, but he's playing really good on-ball defense. Surprisingly, instead of trying to go out there and be an all-star every night, you can tell Smart really wants to just be a 3-and-D guy right now. I don't really mind that, as I'd rather he focus on mastering a couple of things and then expand his game from there instead of trying to do too much and have an all-around poor statistical rookie season (and the "is Marcus Smart a bust?!" summer radio talk that goes with it). He's shown decent enough court vision that I expect he'll be able to play point guard down the road, and since he got over his early injuries and got back into the lineup he's shot 40% from three on 3.5 attempts a night, so that's encouraging for a guy who was billed as a shaky shooter coming out of college. Oddly enough though, he doesn't want to drive to the rim at this point (68% of his shots to this point have been either 3s or very long 2s, versus only 17% of his shots coming at the rim). I assume/hope that will come if/when he's playing alongside some better offensive players and the game slows down a bit for him.

Avery Bradley's defense has slipped some, but that's more than a little bit because the team is more or less asking him to be their top scoring option right now and he can't use up his energy full-court pressing opposing guards (and, again, huge difference between having Celts-era KG backing you up and Tyler Zeller). Bradley's been shooting well lately after an iffy December, but you're simply in trouble when your offense is built around Jared Sullinger, Avery Bradley, and Evan Turner. 

Whether Smart and Bradley are going to be workable going forward depends largely on whether Smart decides he wants to be a point guard or a shooting guard with good playmaking skills - if it's the latter than Bradley's likely to wind up trade bait. However, if Smart's a point guard long-term then they'd be a _great_ backcourt pairing if you have one or two actual go-to scoring options in the frontcourt. 

I also want to make a brief mention of Evan Turner - he seems to be finding his destiny as a very big point guard as opposed to a ball-dominant swingman. Ideally, he'd be coming off the bench for a team to give them some lineup versatility, but he's averaging a respectable enough 11, 5, and 5 as the starting point guard. He still needs to work on that three-pointer, but a playoff team could surround him with spot-up shooters and let him soak up some possessions off the bench. I'm keeping an eye on him, I'd like him to really figure out the whole point guard thing, he's been a good soldier so far this season.


----------



## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*

I know this story will warm @R-Star to the cockles of his heart. Questions Surround Embiid's conditioning and maturity.

(It's stories like this that make me happy that Boston came out of that draft with Marcus Smart rather than some of the alternatives.)


----------



## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



Sir Patchwork said:


> Wiggins has improved every month. The kid can play. He just has the passive mentality and takes longer to become comfortable. His per month splits show him getting better each month.
> 
> January- 21ppg, 5rpg, 3apg on 48% FG
> December- 15ppg, 4rpg, 2apg on 41% FG
> ...


It cracks me up how quickly people jumped on him and labeled him a bust or a disappointment in November and December. God forbid a _teenager _takes half a season to get his feet wet and figure out how to play in the NBA.


----------



## aussiestatman (Dec 12, 2006)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*

Utah's two aussie rookies are continuing to get good burn. Ingles is showing he can play at this level, exum is more of a project.


----------



## hroz (Mar 4, 2006)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*

Wiggins is going to be Roy says johnny come lately.

Too bad there were so many injuries to make it no contest. Especially Jabari.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



E.H. Munro said:


> I know this story will warm @R-Star to the cockles of his heart. Questions Surround Embiid's conditioning and maturity.
> 
> (It's stories like this that make me happy that Boston came out of that draft with Marcus Smart rather than some of the alternatives.)


I saw that. There's lots of time between now and next season for him to trim down and get his shit together, but it can't reassuring for the 6ers. 

I think he needs to put down his Philly cheese steak and twitter and hit the gym a bit. Fat ****. 300 lbs is a bit excessive.


----------



## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



PauloCatarino said:


> The Mirotic talk is winding down. In the last 10 games, he is averaging 7.5ppg on atrocious percentages and 4.1rpg. That's not ROY material by any stretch of imagination.


*Update - last 5 games*:

*Mirotic:* 4.4ppg on .352FG% and 2rpg
*Wiggins:* 18.2ppg on .443FG% and 4.6rpg

So, yeah...


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



PauloCatarino said:


> *Update - last 5 games*:
> 
> *Mirotic:* 4.4ppg on .352FG% and 2rpg
> *Wiggins:* 18.2ppg on .443FG% and 4.6rpg
> ...


 @Diable ?


----------



## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*

Elfrid Payton has had a nice stretch of late: 14/4/8 and over 2 steals per game over the last 6.

Not going to win ROY, but you can just see him getting better and gaining confidence every game. The Rondo comparisons look pretty accurate to me so far. Very crafty on both ends, can't shoot to save his life. He makes a lot of hustle plays and anticipates extremely well. High basketball IQ and very fun to watch. 

There aren't many reasons to watch the Magic, but I recommend tuning in once or twice to see Elfrid.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*

@Diable . Are you prepared to admit you were mistaken when you said Mirotic is a better player than Wiggins this year?

Just address the comment. It's not going away. Not that big of a deal to just come right out and say you were mistaken. I once argued that Tyler Hansbrough was a quality starting 4 in this league.


----------



## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*

@R-Star's persistence in getting @Diable to acknowledge this Wiggins/Mirotic comparison has become somewhat entertaining to me.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



Sir Patchwork said:


> @R-Star's persistence in getting @Diable to acknowledge this Wiggins/Mirotic comparison has become somewhat entertaining to me.


Everything R-Star does is entertaining to everyone, other than whoever is currently on the receiving end of his wrath.


----------



## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



R-Star said:


> Everything R-Star does is entertaining to everyone, other than whoever is currently on the receiving end of his wrath.


A trip to his profile tells me you have mentioned him 19 times in the past 2-3 weeks. I don't think he has responded to any of it.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



Sir Patchwork said:


> A trip to his profile tells me you have mentioned him 19 times in the past 2-3 weeks. I don't think he has responded to any of it.


He came in once after Mo Williams went off and said that was proof that Wiggins isn't very good. That has been his only response in a weeks. 

Isn't that correct @Diable ?


----------



## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



R-Star said:


> Everything R-Star does is entertaining to everyone, other than whoever is currently on the receiving end of his wrath.


Has R-star gone back to that ESPN article, hunted down the people on Facebook who said Mirotic was playing at an all-star level, and demanded retractions from them yet? Because that seems like an R-star kind of thing to do.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



Bogg said:


> Has R-star gone back to that ESPN article, hunted down the people on Facebook who said Mirotic was playing at an all-star level, and demanded retractions from them yet? Because that seems like an R-star kind of thing to do.


I tweeted Nick Fridel asking if he stood by his comments, then called him a hack. 


He did not respond.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*

@Diable is posting in other threads right now, so I fully expect him to come in here and clarify his opinion.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*

Wow. The fact he just refuses to reply blows my mind. 

I never understand posters thinking they can just run away long enough and then everyone will forget. 

If there were a thread publicly calling me out I wouldn't be able to show my face around here. Maybe it's just me though. 


Hey, remember when I said the Pacers won the George Hill Kawhi Leonard trade? Pretty dumb of me. What? I didn't instantaneously burst into flames when I admitted to saying something stupid? Weird.


Grow a set of balls @Diable. Your little coward act is pathetic.


----------



## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



Porn Player said:


> Bruno Caboclo.


What team does he play for?


----------



## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



Jamel Irief said:


> What team does he play for?


Your 2014/15 NBA Champions, the Toronto Raptors.


----------



## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



R-Star said:


> I think they're dumping Rubio first chance they get. Minny is yet again in a total rebuild. If they get a top 3 pick they're pairing Wiggins up with one of the top big men of the draft, running with Levine at the point, and trading Rubio and Pekovic for draft picks or young talent if they can find a suitable deal.


Good thing is they do not have to rush to dump Rubio. They can play Lavine at SG next to him and bring Shabazz. I mean Rubio won't be 25 until next season, so it can't hurt. I just hope they get one of the athletic bigs to go with Lavine and Wiggins. Right now they are guaranteed a top 4 pick so they should be able to get one of...Okafor, Towns, Cauley-Stein or Porzingis.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



MemphisX said:


> Good thing is they do not have to rush to dump Rubio. They can play Lavine at SG next to him and bring Shabazz. I mean Rubio won't be 25 until next season, so it can't hurt. I just hope they get one of the athletic bigs to go with Lavine and Wiggins. Right now they are guaranteed a top 4 pick so they should be able to get one of...Okafor, Towns, Cauley-Stein or Porzingis.


Pairing one of the bigs with Dieng is going to be a nice front court in the future. As far as Rubio, he's untradeable until he comes back, which means he probably won't be traded at this years deadline. With that being the case you're right, they risk nothig bringing him in and seeing how he fits with the new team. A pass first PG with decent D is a great fit with Wiggins. Problem is his health though. Either way it will be interesting to see how it pans out. 

Minny could be a playoff team in a couple of years finally if they go about this the right way.


----------



## Bubbles (Nov 12, 2005)

*Nikola Mirotic’s unique style rewarding Bulls for waiting on him*



> BOSTON – Nikola Mirotic rarely watched the NBA while growing up in Europe. Even as a promising professional player drawing American scouts, he still had only passing interest in the league.
> 
> But that changed the instant the Bulls traded up to get him with the No. 23 pick in the 2011 draft.
> 
> ...


http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/28/nikola-mirotics-unique-style-rewarding-bulls-for-waiting-on-him/

For @R-Star's viewing pleasure.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: Nikola Mirotic’s unique style rewarding Bulls for waiting on him*



Bubbles said:


> http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/28/nikola-mirotics-unique-style-rewarding-bulls-for-waiting-on-him/
> 
> For @R-Star's viewing pleasure.


God I hate obscure stats. I mean shit, they basically just admit he's a 3 point specialist and can not score anywhere else, and they use it as a strength? 

No thanks.


----------



## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*

The irony of the "_Wiggins is only ROY because he plays for a terrible team and Mirotic is buried on a deep team_" argument is that Wiggins would probably start for Chicago. Chicago is deeper in the frontcourt than on the wings, but still. Hard to see why Wiggins wouldn't start over Hinrich/Dunleavy/Snell.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



Sir Patchwork said:


> The irony of the "_Wiggins is only ROY because he plays for a terrible team and Mirotic is buried on a deep team_" argument is that Wiggins would probably start for Chicago. Chicago is deeper in the frontcourt than on the wings, but still. Hard to see why Wiggins wouldn't start over Hinrich/Dunleavy/Snell.


Agreed. You replace Mirotic with Wiggins on Chicago and they're without a doubt a better team. He and Jimmy Butler would be a terror defensively on the perimiter, arguably the best duo in the league. He'd help offensively as well as like you said their other option is Dunleavy, Snell, or the attempt to force Mirotic to play the 3. 

People like to talk about PER, and it always makes me laugh. I wonder what each players PER would look like if Wiggins was the 3rd or arguably 4th offensive option on the Bulls rather than the #1 on the Wolves. Conversely I'd love to see what Mirotics PER would look like trying to replace Wiggins as the #1 option on the Wolves. It's not so easy to just sit out at the 3 point line when you replace Rose, Butler, Gasol, Noah and Taj with Shabazz, Thad Young, Mo Williams and... Gorgui Dieng I guess?

With the way Wiggins was playing now he had one threat, and that guys out for the rest of the year. Mirotic and ROY should never be uttered in the same sentance. RRPOY? Sure. If Rookie Role Player of the Year was an award.


----------



## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*

I think Elfrid Payton might turn out to be one of the best players from this draft class. He struggled early in the season but the last 10 games or so he seems to have turned the corner. If only Orlando would stop wasting money on guys like Channing Frye and Ben Gordon I think they have a really nice young core moving forward. Oladipo/Payton has the potential to be one of the best defensive backcourts in the league and Vucevic is already the best or 2nd best center in the East in my opinion.


----------



## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



Sir Patchwork said:


> The irony o*f the "Wiggins is only ROY because he plays for a terrible team and Mirotic is buried on a deep team" argument *is that Wiggins would probably start for Chicago. Chicago is deeper in the frontcourt than on the wings, but still. Hard to see why Wiggins wouldn't start over Hinrich/Dunleavy/Snell.


That argument was/is so ridiculous the poster that vented it is too ashamed to even re-adress his own claim. Too embarassed to even apologize. lol


----------



## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*

I love advanced stats just as much as the next geek, but Mirotic over Wiggins is a joke. I would argue that Wiggins might be better than Jabari at this point in the season even if he hadn't gotten hurt and had continued to play like he was early this season.

In Jabari's 25 games this season, he was basically a 21.4/9.6/2.9/2.2/0.3 guy per 100 possessions with 3.3 TOs and 49/70/25 shooting percentages. PER = 14.6

In Wiggins' last 25 games, he has been getting 25.2/6.8/3.1/1.6/1.0 per 100 with only 2.7 TOs and 45/75/33 percentages. PER = 17.2

And this is comparing 2 starters who are essentially the best offensive player on their respective teams.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



PauloCatarino said:


> That argument was/is so ridiculous the poster that vented it is too ashamed to even re-adress his own claim. Too embarassed to even apologize. lol


I've even chased him out of unrelated threads by bringing it up. He just needs to address it and move on, but he refuses. He's just cowering around in the shadows, will try to make a post here or there and then runs for the hills when I post after him. Not sure why he's choosing to go on this way.


----------



## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*

Wiggins averaged 20 a game on 47% from the field and 34% from 3 in the month of January. Kid's potential is scary.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



bball2223 said:


> Wiggins averaged 20 a game on 47% from the field and 34% from 3 in the month of January. Kid's potential is scary.


I think it's a great sign that he went off against Cleveland. I'm starting to think maybe we were all wrong that he doesn't have that cold blooded streak in him. Kid looks like he could turn into a franchise guy.


----------



## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*

Looks like Diable found his new Harden/Kobe or Maynor over Westbrook embarrassment. Poor guy loves PER too much.


----------



## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



RollWithEm said:


> I love advanced stats just as much as the next geek, but Mirotic over Wiggins is a joke. I would argue that Wiggins might be better than Jabari at this point in the season even if he hadn't gotten hurt and had continued to play like he was early this season.
> 
> In Jabari's 25 games this season, he was basically a 21.4/9.6/2.9/2.2/0.3 guy per 100 possessions with 3.3 TOs and 49/70/25 shooting percentages. PER = 14.6
> 
> ...


I would have loved to see what Jabari evolved into as the year progressed. I think he, like Wiggins, would have gradually improved each month. They both started kind of slow, but if Wiggins growth is any indication of what Parker would have done, they both would have finished with really good rookie seasons. I hope Parker's injury doesn't set him back too much.


----------



## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*

Mitch McGary's stats Per36 this year (and he plays 15 minutes per game)
17.4ppg, 11.7rpg

Suck it Mirotic.


----------



## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



Sir Patchwork said:


> Mitch McGary's stats Per36 this year (and he plays 15 minutes per game)
> 17.4ppg, 11.7rpg
> 
> Suck it Mirotic.


That says nothing, what's his PER?


----------



## JT (Mar 1, 2004)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



Jamel Irief said:


> That says nothing, what's his PER?


:twoguns: @ PER.

its strange to me how guys, in comparing two players, but will take the 22 PER player over the guy who has 21 without even watching the games.

strange.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



JT said:


> :twoguns: @ PER.
> 
> its strange to me how guys, in comparing two players, but will take the 22 PER player over the guy who has 21 without even watching the games.
> 
> strange.


That's Jamel man. Guy never watches any games and just looks at players PER when comparing players. 

Analytics this, advanced stats that....... that's all Jamel ever talks about.


He's a god damn wind bag if you ask me.


----------



## JT (Mar 1, 2004)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*

well I know Jamel knows the game, I mean in general, not just here but other forums as well.


----------



## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*

Hey @RollWithEm, has your boy Simmons already backtracked off his stupid comments on who deserves the ROY?


----------



## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



Jamel Irief said:


> That says nothing, what's his PER?


McGary's PER is 21.3. Andrew Wiggins' is 13.1. 

So I'm not sure why people think Wiggins should win rookie of the year.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*

I wish @Diable would come back into this thread instead of just pretending it doesn't exist.


----------



## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*

Jordan Clarkson is the Rookie of the Year. He's helped lead the Lakers to 14 wins.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic (Jul 19, 2005)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



Basel said:


> Jordan Clarkson is the Rookie of the Year. He's helped lead the Lakers to 14 wins.


Clearly :yesyesyes:


----------



## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



R-Star said:


> I wish @Diable would come back into this thread instead of just pretending it doesn't exist.


Yeah? And is Adam going to bump the "no league for old men" thread?


----------



## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



Jamel Irief said:


> Hey @RollWithEm, has your boy Simmons already backtracked off his stupid comments on who deserves the ROY?


Not yet (as far as I know). 

I'm already on record with my feelings on Elfrid. Totally over-rated prospect and player.


----------



## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*

Y'all see the Clarkson dunk tonight? Plus the Lakers' 15th win? Easily ROY.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic (Jul 19, 2005)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



Basel said:


> Y'all see the Clarkson dunk tonight? Plus the Lakers' 15th win? Easily ROY.


It's pretty obvious that he's ROY


----------



## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



R-Star said:


> I wish @Diable would come back into this thread instead of just pretending it doesn't exist.


You not only ran him out of this thread, you ran him off the site. He hasn't posted in over a month.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



Jamel Irief said:


> You not only ran him out of this thread, you ran him off the site. He hasn't posted in over a month.


You keep that in mind the next time you want to argue. If you go reaching for the archives, you better have a quiver of fear in your hand.

I'm a bad bad man.


----------



## hroz (Mar 4, 2006)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*

I think getting traded by the Cavs was the kick in the ass Wiggins needed.


----------



## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



R-Star said:


> You keep that in mind the next time you want to argue. If you go reaching for the archives, you better have a quiver of fear in your hand.
> 
> I'm a bad bad man.


Can't you run Ron the Puritan off the site? Might be a bit hard since he doesn't really watch basketball if the lakers suck.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



Jamel Irief said:


> Can't you run Ron the Puritan off the site? Might be a bit hard since he doesn't really watch basketball if the lakers suck.


R-Star has a special place in his heart for any original member. That is why Ronald and yourself are still allowed to post on my website.


----------



## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*

A guy who has barely been mentioned, probably because he's on the 76ers and because some don't realize he's a rookie, Nerlens Noel deserves to be discussed in this thread. Since the all-star break, he's putting up 11.8 points, 10.0 boards 1.7 dimes, 2.9 blocks and 2.7 steals per game.


----------



## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



hobojoe said:


> A guy who has barely been mentioned, probably because he's on the 76ers and because some don't realize he's a rookie, Nerlens Noel deserves to be discussed in this thread. Since the all-star break, he's putting up 11.8 points, 10.0 boards 1.7 dimes, 2.9 blocks and 2.7 steals per game.


Weren't you one of those guys posting his advanced stats in early November and using it to say he sucks?


----------



## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



Jamel Irief said:


> Weren't you one of those guys posting his advanced stats in early November and using it to say he sucks?


No, that was @e-monk.

I merely said that the timing of @Ballscientist starting a thread comparing him to Mutombo was odd considering Noel wasn't playing very well in November.


----------



## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*

which is what the stats at the time substantiated


----------



## 29380 (Feb 23, 2009)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/574410752037142528


----------



## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



e-monk said:


> which is what the stats at the time substantiated


Yeah but what stats don't tell you is that he's a twenty year old coming back from a year long layoff and also playing pros for the first time. Just watching him it was obvious he was talented and just needed time.

But that would mean you'd have to actually watch games and not just rely at looking at spreadsheets, e-per.


----------



## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*

so he looks to you like a young 7'2" 250 lb Dikembe Mutombo? because that was the comparison and it's still offbase


----------



## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*

This is still Wiggins' award, but Noel, Nurkic, and Mirotic all have done some good things when they've gotten PT. I just think the injuries to Embiid (of course), Jabari, and Julius Randle have really taken the wind out of the sails in this race.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



e-monk said:


> which is what the stats at the time substantiated


Which is why you and others over reactionary use of advance stats is beyond ridiculous.


----------



## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



e-monk said:


> so he looks to you like a young 7'2" 250 lb Dikembe Mutombo? because that was the comparison and it's still offbase


I don't remember exactly what he said, but likely he was calling Noel a rebounding and defensive force who would be average at best offensively.


----------



## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



Jamel Irief said:


> I don't remember exactly what he said, but likely he was calling Noel a rebounding and defensive force who would be average at best offensively.


But given his size, wouldn't that make him a lot closer to a more wiry Ben Wallace than it would to Mutombo?


----------



## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



RollWithEm said:


> But given his size, wouldn't that make him a lot closer to a more wiry Ben Wallace than it would to Mutombo?


Maybe, but I believe the emphasis was more on the fact that Noel sucked and not his size when folks shot down the scientist.

Maybe Marcus Camby who knows his limits offensively and doesn't shoot jumpers all day is a better comparison.


----------



## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



Jamel Irief said:


> Maybe Marcus Camby who knows his limits offensively and doesn't shoot jumpers all day is a better comparison.


Perhaps.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic (Jul 19, 2005)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



> @AlexKennedyNBA: Lakers rookie PG Jordan Clarkson is averaging 17.1 points (on 45.6 percent shooting), 4.1 rebounds and 4.8 assists in his last 19 games.


Just sayin...


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic (Jul 19, 2005)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



> @forumbluegold: Lakers lose by 10, 127 to 117. 30 points from Clarkson on 19 shots, 69.3% True Shooting. Also had 4 rebounds, 7 assists, 3 blocks & a steal.


Just sayin...


----------



## POKEGAMERZ (Mar 27, 2015)

I believe that I have a few possible options for Rookie of the Year-
1 Elfrid Payton- Orlando Magic.
2 Nikola Mirotic- Chicago Bulls.
3 Andrew Wiggins- Minnesota Timberwolves.
That's all I could think of for now.


----------



## PD (Sep 10, 2004)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



POKEGAMERZ said:


> I believe that I have a few possible options for Rookie of the Year-
> 1 Elfrid Payton- Orlando Magic.
> 2 Nikola Mirotic- Chicago Bulls.
> 3 Andrew Wiggins- Minnesota Timberwolves.
> That's all I could think of for now.


I think it is really only Wiggins vs. Mirotic for ROY. Traditionally, Wiggins would win this award and very likely will. If one values winning, Mirotic will get the vote. However, i dont think this award has ever been much of a winning thing. 

I would love to see Mirotic win but it is hard to argue for him since he only did it only one month and likely April. Unfortunately, that is the price to pay to be on a loaded team. He will get to taste the playoffs as a reward this year and likely for the forseeable future.

Wiggins will likely take the ROY home and suffer the next few years being on a losing team. It is not his fault. The kid can play and does it very well. The Wolves made out really well in this trade whether Love opts out this year or not. With another top 5 pick this year, the Wolves look good for the future. It is most difficult to find that PLAYER to build around and they have found him in Wiggins.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



PD said:


> I think it is really only Wiggins vs. Mirotic for ROY. Traditionally, Wiggins would win this award and very likely will. If one values winning, Mirotic will get the vote. However, i dont think this award has ever been much of a winning thing.
> 
> I would love to see Mirotic win but it is hard to argue for him since he only did it only one month and likely April. Unfortunately, that is the price to pay to be on a loaded team. He will get to taste the playoffs as a reward this year and likely for the forseeable future.
> 
> Wiggins will likely take the ROY home and suffer the next few years being on a losing team. It is not his fault. The kid can play and does it very well. The Wolves made out really well in this trade whether Love opts out this year or not. With another top 5 pick this year, the Wolves look good for the future. It is most difficult to find that PLAYER to build around and they have found him in Wiggins.


I'm tired of hearing the loaded team excuse for Mirotic. The Bulls have had big man injuries for the majority of the year. Nikola has been getting a shot all year long. When he plays well, as he did at the start of the season and over the last month, he gets burn. When he doesn't, like how he went extremely cold for a few months, Thibs doesn't give him a ton of time on the court. 

Nikola has had a good season and is a great boon for the Bulls. But I don't at all agree saying if people value winning Niko should win the award.


----------



## POKEGAMERZ (Mar 27, 2015)

What about Elfrid Payton?


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



POKEGAMERZ said:


> What about Elfrid Payton?


He doesn't at all deserve the award over Wiggins.


----------



## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*

My rankings for this award...

1) Wiggins
2) Mirotic

The next tier has Noel, Nurkic, and Payton in it. If I had to choose a third place, I'd go with Nerlens.


----------



## POKEGAMERZ (Mar 27, 2015)

I think Noel is a sophomore and that he played last season but it should really be Jabari Parker that would've deserved the award if he wasn't injured.


----------



## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



POKEGAMERZ said:


> I think Noel is a sophomore and that he played last season but it should really be Jabari Parker that would've deserved the award if he wasn't injured.


Noel did not play a single minute last season. That's why he's a rookie this year.

You are also probably right on Parker. He would very likely be the leading scorer on a playoff team right now if he hadn't gotten hurt.


----------



## POKEGAMERZ (Mar 27, 2015)

Also Parker cannot really be a rookie next year because he played minutes for the Bucks at the beginning of the season.


----------



## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



POKEGAMERZ said:


> Also Parker cannot really be a rookie next year because he played minutes for the Bucks at the beginning of the season.


Correct. Embiid will still be a rookie next season, though. Dario Saric will also be a rookie either next season or the following year... whenever he decides to come over.

Unfortunately, Julius Randle will be a sophomore... even though he only played 14 minutes total this year.


----------



## POKEGAMERZ (Mar 27, 2015)

If Embiid comes back next season than 76ers may be a playoff making team rather than a failing team because they may also get another first rounder this season.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic (Jul 19, 2005)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*

Jordan Clarkson had 26pts 11asts 6 reb 3stls tonight including clutch free throws and the game-winner for the Lakers. Just sayin...


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic (Jul 19, 2005)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



> @ESPNStatsInfo: Jordan Clarkson: 26 pts, 11 asts, 6 reb; other Lakers rookies w/ 25-10-5 game: Archie Clark (1966-67), West (60-61), Baylor (58-59) #Elias


Just sayin...


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



POKEGAMERZ said:


> If Embiid comes back next season than 76ers may be a playoff making team rather than a failing team because they may also get another first rounder this season.


Embiid will change them from the laughing stock of the league to a playoff team?

They will be at the bottom of the league again next season.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



King Sancho Fantastic said:


> Jordan Clarkson had 26pts 11asts 6 reb 3stls tonight including clutch free throws and the game-winner for the Lakers. Just sayin...


Who did they beat? Just sayin......


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic (Jul 19, 2005)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



R-Star said:


> Who did they beat? Just sayin......


Yeah because Wiggins and the Timberwolves are world beaters...


----------



## POKEGAMERZ (Mar 27, 2015)

U really think Wiggins is actually helping the Timberwolves because they have the 1st pick of 2014 but are still the laughing stock of the West.


----------



## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*


----------



## POKEGAMERZ (Mar 27, 2015)

I still think its either Wiggins or Mitotic.


----------



## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



POKEGAMERZ said:


> I still think its either Wiggins or Mitotic.


It's Wiggins and the vote won't be close.


----------



## POKEGAMERZ (Mar 27, 2015)

I would have to agree on that.:boom::dash::fire:


----------



## KFitz14 (Jun 3, 2014)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*

Noel should be getting more consideration. The T-Wolves are actually (slightly) better with Wiggins off the floor.


----------



## POKEGAMERZ (Mar 27, 2015)

KFitz14 said:


> Noel should be getting more consideration. The T-Wolves are actually (slightly) better with Wiggins off the floor.


True and Wiggins is going to be very good in a few years.


----------



## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*

Rooting for Mirotic to pull of the upset. That way Diable will come back and continue his "you'd have to be a blind idiot to not see what I do" type of Django posting.


----------



## POKEGAMERZ (Mar 27, 2015)

Jamel Irief said:


> Rooting for Mirotic to pull of the upset. That way Diable will come back and continue his "you'd have to be a blind idiot to not see what I do" type of Django posting.


I still believe its Wiggins.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



Jamel Irief said:


> Rooting for Mirotic to pull of the upset. That way Diable will come back and continue his "you'd have to be a blind idiot to not see what I do" type of Django posting.


So Mirotic winning the award would unchain Diable?


----------



## Bubbles (Nov 12, 2005)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



R-Star said:


> So Mirotic winning the award would unchain Diable?


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic (Jul 19, 2005)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*

Jordan Clarkson with 18 points (7 of 9 FG's, 3 of 4 FT's), 10 assists and 7 boards and 1 T.O.

Just sayin...


----------



## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*

Wait, what did y'all do to Diable


----------



## MojoPin (Oct 10, 2008)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*

Jordan Clarkson has actually been more efficient than Wiggins. If he had a month or two more of play, he would be ROTY. Over the past 5 he is averaging 19/5/6/1 on 50% FG and 80% FT.

Wiggins is killing it lately too.


----------



## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*

Whenever I think about Clarkson, I think about play #2 on this list.


----------



## XXV (Jul 26, 2014)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*

Great defense by Noel in that Clarkson game winner. I can see why he's already considered a defensive juggernaut.


----------



## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



KFitz14 said:


> Noel should be getting more consideration. The T-Wolves are actually (slightly) better with Wiggins off the floor.


No they're not.


----------



## KFitz14 (Jun 3, 2014)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



E.H. Munro said:


> No they're not.


http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wiggian01/on-off/2015/

I know...BOOOOOOOO HISSSSSSS ADVANCED STATS ARE USELESS!!!!!!!


----------



## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*

http://www.82games.com/1415/14MIN8.HTM#onoff


----------



## POKEGAMERZ (Mar 27, 2015)

KFitz14 said:


> E.H. Munro said:
> 
> 
> > No they're not.
> ...


YEAH! ANDREW WIGGINS 4 ROOKIE OF THE YEAR!


----------



## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*

so wait which source should I believe? so many numbers!


----------



## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



e-monk said:


> so wait which source should I believe? so many numbers!


Pelton's normalised +/- numbers are pretty good. Not quite as good as the official RAPM, which shows both players to be net negatives, but Wiggins slightly less so. The DB Sports basketball guy isn't really a fan of them, though, which is why he sticks with the oRtg/dRtg numbers as an alternative. But even there the T'wolves are clearly a worse offensive team when he's not on the floor.


----------



## KFitz14 (Jun 3, 2014)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*

The 82games link is older (probably from late Jan/early Feb) because it only has him playing 1829 minutes.

The point it he hasn't been that good. It's understandable since he only just turned 20 and is on a bad team, but he hasn't made much of a difference. It is more of an argument for players not jumping straight to the NBA right into a bad situation where they are in over their heads (though maybe they will be better for it, I don't know). The futility of the last 2 ROY races bear that out.

I think he would have been MUCH better off playing a smaller role with Cleveland and growing into a leading role.


----------



## POKEGAMERZ (Mar 27, 2015)

KFitz14 said:


> The 82games link is older (probably from late Jan/early Feb) because it only has him playing 1829 minutes.
> 
> The point it he hasn't been that good. It's understandable since he only just turned 20 and is on a bad team, but he hasn't made much of a difference. It is more of an argument for players not jumping straight to the NBA right into a bad situation where they are in over their heads (though maybe they will be better for it, I don't know). The futility of the last 2 ROY races bear that out.
> 
> I think he would have been MUCH better off playing a smaller role with Cleveland and growing into a leading role.


He has played a huge role for Minnesota and he is one of the big 3 of Minnesota. The other 2 in the big 3 along with Rubio and either Garnett or Lavine. I still don't understand why Minnesota has the 1st pick but plays terrible. If Knicks got 1st pick next draft and are last again next year than I'll laugh really hard.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



KFitz14 said:


> The 82games link is older (probably from late Jan/early Feb) because it only has him playing 1829 minutes.
> 
> The point it he hasn't been that good. It's understandable since he only just turned 20 and is on a bad team, but he hasn't made much of a difference. It is more of an argument for players not jumping straight to the NBA right into a bad situation where they are in over their heads (though maybe they will be better for it, I don't know). The futility of the last 2 ROY races bear that out.
> 
> I think he would have been MUCH better off playing a smaller role with Cleveland and growing into a leading role.


He'd probably look better if he was the 18th option on a deep team like Niko Mirotic. 

You put Mirotic in Wiggins place on the Wolves and he would look laughably bad as a number one option. Pair that with the fact he's a horrific defender and any mention of him and ROY would get you laughed off the internet. 


That's not advanced stats, it's reality.


----------



## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



KFitz14 said:


> The 82games link is older (probably from late Jan/early Feb) because it only has him playing 1829 minutes.
> 
> The point it he hasn't been that good. It's understandable since he only just turned 20 and is on a bad team, but he hasn't made much of a difference. It is more of an argument for players not jumping straight to the NBA right into a bad situation where they are in over their heads (though maybe they will be better for it, I don't know). The futility of the last 2 ROY races bear that out.
> 
> I think he would have been MUCH better off playing a smaller role with Cleveland and growing into a leading role.


Even by RAPM Wiggins shows better.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic (Jul 19, 2005)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



> @LakersReporter: Buycks replaced Clarkson, who will finish with 27 points, 7 boards and 5 assists to 1 turnover if he doesn't return.


Just sayin...


----------



## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



King Sancho Fantastic said:


> Just sayin...



Also WC Rookie of the Month.


----------



## KFitz14 (Jun 3, 2014)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*

Funny how I don't even mention Mirotic and it turns into "F*CK HIM HE SUCKS AND WILL BE OUT OF THE LEAGUE IN 2 YEARS!!!!!!!!!!!"


----------



## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*

The Mirotic stuff is in reference to a hibernating poster who was calling The Montenegrin Marauder the greatest rookie to enter the league in a generation. Has nothing to do with you.


----------



## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



> Chicago Bulls rookie Nikola Mirotic has led the NBA in total fourth-quarter points (136) and fourth-quarter scoring average (9.1), while scoring the highest percentage of his team's fourth-quarter points (36.8) in the month of March.


..


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



KFitz14 said:


> Funny how I don't even mention Mirotic and it turns into "F*CK HIM HE SUCKS AND WILL BE OUT OF THE LEAGUE IN 2 YEARS!!!!!!!!!!!"


Pretty sure not one person said that. But I'm also pretty sure I've posted with you earlier this year where you were trying to pump up Mirotic and subsequently thought your best way to do that was to downplay Wiggins in the same breath.

Mirotic is having a great post allstar break. Wiggins is a better player. Simple as that.


----------



## MojoPin (Oct 10, 2008)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*

Wiggins puts up big numbers but his team doesnt win. Clarkson, yet again, is putting up similar numbers but having a bigger impact on the court. Clarkson even has a higher PER, for what its worth. He should be ROY.


----------



## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*

I'm a Lakers fan but no.


----------



## MojoPin (Oct 10, 2008)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*

Meh. Give him a season of playing 36 minutes a game and let him hoist 14 shots per game and his numbers would look much better than Wiggins.

Wiggins will get ROY no doubt, but Clarkson _could_ have those numbers if he was put onto the same team.


----------



## POKEGAMERZ (Mar 27, 2015)

MojoPin said:


> Meh. Give him a season of playing 36 minutes a game and let him hoist 14 shots per game and his numbers would look much better than Wiggins.
> 
> Wiggins will get ROY no doubt, but Clarkson _could_ have those numbers if he was put onto the same team.


I would have to agree on that.


----------



## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*

I think one thing everyone can agree on is that the All-rookie first team is Payton, Clarkson, Wiggins, Mirotic and Noel.


----------



## POKEGAMERZ (Mar 27, 2015)

http://www.nba.com/2015/news/featur...4/01/2014-15-rookie-ladder-week-22/index.html
Read this and it will tell U who is really rookie of the year.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



POKEGAMERZ said:


> http://www.nba.com/2015/news/featur...4/01/2014-15-rookie-ladder-week-22/index.html
> Read this and it will tell U who is really rookie of the year.


I won't read your link, but I'll tell you Wiggins is the ROY.


----------



## POKEGAMERZ (Mar 27, 2015)

hobojoe said:


> I think one thing everyone can agree on is that the All-rookie first team is Payton, Clarkson, Wiggins, Mirotic and Noel.


Yes but that looks like their starting 5 only. U didn't mention any benches. Anyways read this and U will see what the 2nd team turns out to be.
http://fansided.com/2015/04/10/selecting-nba-rookie-team/


----------



## POKEGAMERZ (Mar 27, 2015)

R-Star said:


> POKEGAMERZ said:
> 
> 
> > http://www.nba.com/2015/news/featur...4/01/2014-15-rookie-ladder-week-22/index.html
> ...


The link tells U that Wiggins has already been selected as KIA Rookie of the Year favorite.


----------



## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



POKEGAMERZ said:


> Yes but that looks like their starting 5 only. U didn't mention any benches. Anyways read this and U will see what the 2nd team turns out to be.
> http://fansided.com/2015/04/10/selecting-nba-rookie-team/


No thanks.


----------



## POKEGAMERZ (Mar 27, 2015)

hobojoe said:


> POKEGAMERZ said:
> 
> 
> > Yes but that looks like their starting 5 only. U didn't mention any benches. Anyways read this and U will see what the 2nd team turns out to be.
> ...


This link tells U that the 2nd team would turn out to be Marcus Smart, Jordan Clarkson, Bojan Bogdanovic, KJ Mcdaniels, Tarik Black, Elfrid Payton, Andrew Wiggins, Nikola Mirotic, Nerlens Noel and Jusef Nurkic.


----------



## Bubbles (Nov 12, 2005)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



POKEGAMERZ said:


> http://www.nba.com/2015/news/featur...4/01/2014-15-rookie-ladder-week-22/index.html
> Read this and it will tell U who is really rookie of the year.


I'll start taking your posts seriously if you start using "you" instead of "U."


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



Bubbles said:


> I'll start taking your posts seriously if you start using "you" instead of "U."


He capitalizes it though. At least he's putting in some effort.


----------



## POKEGAMERZ (Mar 27, 2015)

Bubbles said:


> POKEGAMERZ said:
> 
> 
> > http://www.nba.com/2015/news/featur...4/01/2014-15-rookie-ladder-week-22/index.html
> ...


Alright man.


----------



## MojoPin (Oct 10, 2008)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*

Just saying...

http://www.basketball-reference.com...1&p2=wiggian01&p3=&p4=&p5=&p6=#advanced::none


----------



## POKEGAMERZ (Mar 27, 2015)

MojoPin said:


> Just saying...
> 
> http://www.basketball-reference.com...1&p2=wiggian01&p3=&p4=&p5=&p6=#advanced::none


I would choose Wiggins over Clarkson.


----------



## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

*Re: NBA Rookie of the Year (2014-2015)*



MojoPin said:


> Meh. Give him a season of playing 36 minutes a game and let him hoist 14 shots per game and his numbers would look much better than Wiggins.
> 
> Wiggins will get ROY no doubt, but Clarkson _could_ have those numbers if he was put onto the same team.


Don't forget the fact that clarkson is a Laker and wiggins is a Canadian


----------



## POKEGAMERZ (Mar 27, 2015)

Jamel Irief said:


> MojoPin said:
> 
> 
> > Meh. Give him a season of playing 36 minutes a game and let him hoist 14 shots per game and his numbers would look much better than Wiggins.
> ...


I would agree on that.


----------



## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/593545645975281664


----------



## POKEGAMERZ (Mar 27, 2015)

Basel said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/593545645975281664


If I would pick the top 3 it would be-
1 Wiggins.
2 Noel.
3 Mirotic.


----------

