# Zach Startin' To TICK Me Off!



## ABM (Dec 30, 2002)

Certainly, while I've personally allowed much patience and leeway for his development ON the court - this, in light of his youth and coming off injury - I have NO patience for what happened - AGAIN - yesterday OFF the court.

One would think that, after the "heartless and hapless" team showing against the Heat, Zach would come back strong, rarin' to go in preparation for the Lakers. Apparently, that wasn't the case. He was late - AGAIN - for shoot-around and, rightly so, didn't start because of it.

C'mon, Zach! This team is chock full out youth looking up to you, man! If you can't show dedication, punctuality. heart, responsibility, and simple effort to get to your scheduled events/functions on (or, should I say well AHEAD of) time , then what are kids to think?! I mean, this league/world is governed by example. IMO, yours is poor. It really is.

Sure, it's JUST "practice", but that's where it all STARTS, man - that is, if this team is gonna make a turn for the better.


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## ThereIsNoTry (Oct 23, 2005)

He was locked in his gated community.


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## Talkhard (May 13, 2003)

Randolph is starting to remind me of J.R. Rider, with all the lame excuses about being late. Apparently he claimed that the gate at the entrance of his gated community was locked, and he couldn't get his car out. Well, how long do you think that would take to fix, with a guard sitting right there in his little guard shack? 5 minutes? The real question is, why does Randolph keep showing up late over and over again? 

I'm reminded of the story someone posted here last summer, about Randolph showing up stoned out of his mind at some store in Lloyd Center. Does the guy have a chronic pot problem? He very well could be the next bomb to blow up in the Blazers' faces.


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## ABM (Dec 30, 2002)

ThereIsNoTry said:


> He was locked in his gated community.



Nonetheless, it's become - dare I say - habitual behavior.

In light of that, why couldn't "Mr. Max" personally dedicate to himself to, say, show up to each and every event at least 1/2 hour early? That way, when these types of things (i.e. getting locked into your community) happen, there will be ample time to get it corrected?

Again, Zach has shown this type of _stuff_ time and time again. It's time for it to stop!


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## The Sebastian Express (Mar 3, 2005)

It was an electrical gate?


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## Blazer Freak (Jul 11, 2004)

Jesus you guys are overreacting I think. People did lose power you know. Nate understood, and he was punished anyways. This was the first incident in a little while, but of course people blow these things waayy out of proportion.


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## Talkhard (May 13, 2003)

Uh, Blazer Freak, you might want to re-read the McMillan quote at the bottom of your post. That's the message he's trying to get into Randolph's thick skull.


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

ABM said:


> In light of that, why couldn't "Mr. Max" personally dedicate to himself to, say, show up to each and every event at least 1/2 hour early? That way, when these types of things (i.e. getting locked into your community) happen, there will be ample time to get it corrected?
> 
> Again, Zach has shown this type of _stuff_ time and time again. It's time for it to stop!


or else what... we´ll start some threads complaining about him?

Us mere fans may not like it, but with the guarenteed dinero of the CBA, it´s truely a players league. The time for management to have made a call on Zach´s character was before they maxed him out. Certainly he´d shown some questionable judgement prior to that, and they had a true pro in the wings (SAR) if they´d decided it would be best for the club to move him... I´m sure that other clubs would have been very interested in acquiring ZR on his rook deal.

I´m not endorsing his continual tardyness by any means, I´m just saying that at this point there is little that can be done to address this by anyone other then Zach. Professionalism has to come from within the professional. That said, hopefully it was just an electronic foulup, and Zach was speaking to Nate on his cell well before practice explaining his predicament... thats what I would have done if faced with a similar problem with my work. 

STOMP


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## rx2web (Jul 27, 2004)

Holy crap! life happens. Hell, I don't get to work on time every day. Family, and life and crap just comes up without warning sometimes. Give the man a break.


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## ABM (Dec 30, 2002)

STOMP said:


> or else what... we´ll start some threads complaining about him?
> 
> Us mere fans may not like it, but with the guarenteed dinero of the CBA, it´s truely a players league. The time for management to have made a call on Zach´s character was before they maxed him out. Certainly he´d shown some questionable judgement prior to that, and they had a true pro in the wings (SAR) if they´d decided it would be best for the club to move him... I´m sure that other clubs would have been very interested in acquiring ZR on his rook deal.
> 
> ...


I'll tell you what can be done.........6th Man Of The Year Candidate!


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## ABM (Dec 30, 2002)

rx2web said:


> Holy crap! life happens. Hell, I don't get to work on time every day. Family, and life and crap just comes up without warning sometimes. Give the man a break.


A few occurances may be one thing. Regularity? A WHOLE 'nother ballgame.


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## chevelle (Feb 8, 2004)

The Sebastian Express said:


> It was an electrical gate?



Yeah, the power went out because of all the crappy weather lately and the gate wouldn't open because of it.

Honestly, what was he supposed to do? Obviously McMillan didn't seem all that concerned about it because he put him in 28 seconds into the game. All he got was a slap on the wrist saying that if you show up late you won't start. Which is understandable in this situation. This was something that he couldn't necessarily control and I think McMillan understood that so he didn't punish him anymore than not starting.


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## ABM (Dec 30, 2002)

chevelle said:


> Yeah, the power went out because of all the crappy weather lately and the gate wouldn't open because of it.
> 
> Honestly, what was he supposed to do?


OK, let me pose this question to you, then: Let's _supppose_ he actually called Nate direct and 'splained the problems he was having. Do you think he would have then been excused and started?

I'm saying yes.


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## Talkhard (May 13, 2003)

> I´m just saying that at this point there is little that can be done to address this by anyone other then Zach.


Wrong. McMillan can make him sit out an entire game or fine him.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

ABM said:


> A few occurances may be one thing. Regularity? A WHOLE 'nother ballgame.


4 times during the whole season (if that?)? 

You're telling me, honestly, you've never been late to work?


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## ABM (Dec 30, 2002)

Hap said:


> 4 times during the whole season (if that?)?
> 
> You're telling me, honestly, you've never been late to work?


This WHOLE season? you make it appears as if it's completed already.

1) No, I've not been late to work in as long as I can remember.

2) Why doesn't anybody else on the team seem to have this little pattern?

3) Again, Zach is supposed to be a LEADER. Do what it takes to ensure punctuality. Leave the hosue 1/2 hour earlier. Something.

4) Call Nate if/when something out of your control comes up. So LITTLE effort can go SO far.


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## Foulzilla (Jan 11, 2005)

Zach was a little late. Zach was punished. It was minor. Zach is not complaining in public about it. This is not worth the effort to get upset about.


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## chevelle (Feb 8, 2004)

ABM said:


> OK, let me pose this question to you, then: Let's _supppose_ he actually called Nate direct and 'splained the problems he was having. Do you think he would have then been excused and started?
> 
> I'm saying yes.


Who knows? ... I honestly can't answer that. I don't know what exactly happened regarding the communication of events. All I'm saying is that they probably didn't start him to make the other teammates thinking that he wasn't getting any special treatment. Obviously if he was seriously in trouble, he wouldn't have been inserted into the line-up 28 seconds into the game. Patterson could just of easily came into the game instead of Randolph at that point, if he was really in trouble.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

ABM said:


> This WHOLE season? you make it appears as if it's completed already.
> 
> 1) No, I've not been late to work in as long as I can remember.


in as long isnt the same as "ever". I know for a fact my dad, who's worked for fred meyers for over 30 years, has been late a couple times (he works grave-yard). that in no way takes away from him as a worker (and if anyone says it does, they don't have much sense) or his commitment to fred meyers, or his fellow employees. 


> 2) Why doesn't anybody else on the team seem to have this little pattern?


if he starts doing it like once a week, yes. But a few times does not a pattern make.


> 3) Again, Zach is supposed to be a LEADER. Do what it takes to ensure punctuality. Leave the hosue 1/2 hour earlier. Something.
> 
> 4) Call Nate if/when something out of your control comes up. So LITTLE effort can go SO far.


do you know that clyde drexler was late to many practices, and infact, was known to have skipped plenty?

Explain to me how leaving the house 1/2 hour early helps, when you can't get out of your gated community?

Calling for a RIDE does help.

but what happens if they hit a traffic jam? Or there's an accident?


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## ABM (Dec 30, 2002)

chevelle said:


> Who knows? ... I honestly can't answer that. I don't know what exactly happened regarding the communication of events. All I'm saying is that they probably didn't start him to make the other teammates thinking that he wasn't getting any special treatment. Obviously if he was seriously in trouble, he wouldn't have been inserted into the line-up 28 seconds into the game. Patterson could just of easily came into the game instead of Randolph at that point, if he was really in trouble.


There are such situations as _excused_ absences and _unexcused_ absences. I would imagine if Zach called Nate well in advance - as in, the moment he realized he couldn't get out of his 'hood - it would considered an _excused_ absence and everyone would get a chuckle out of it when he finally arrived. A no harm, not foul, no special treament, no nothing, end of story, let's ball type of occurance.

It's all basic common sense and considerateness to me.


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## ABM (Dec 30, 2002)

Hap said:


> in as long isnt the same as "ever". I know for a fact my dad, who's worked for fred meyers for over 30 years, has been late a couple times (he works grave-yard). that in no way takes away from him as a worker (and if anyone says it does, they don't have much sense) or his commitment to fred meyers, or his fellow employees.
> 
> 
> if he starts doing it like once a week, yes. But a few times does not a pattern make.
> ...



You failed to answer the "call Nate" remark. See my other latest post. Perhaps that will shed a little more light on how I feel.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

ABM said:


> There are such situations as _excused_ absences and _unexcused_ absences. I would imagine if Zach called Nate well in advance - as in, the moment he realized he couldn't get out of his 'hood - it would considered an _excused_ absence and everyone would get a chuckle out of it when he finally arrived. A no harm, not foul, no special treament, no nothing, end of story, let's ball type of occurance.
> 
> It's all basic common sense and considerateness to me.


Nate has said that rules are rules, no matter what. So I doubt that if Zach called, and Nate said he understood, he'd let him start. He's said that he doesn't care about the reason, if you're late (or do something against team rules) you get punished, no matter who you are, no matter why it happened.


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## chevelle (Feb 8, 2004)

ABM said:


> There are such situations as _excused_ absences and _unexcused_ absences. I would imagine if Zach called Nate well in advance - as in, the moment he realized he couldn't get out of his 'hood - it would considered an _excused_ absence and everyone would get a chuckle out of it when he finally arrived. A no harm, not foul, no special treament, no nothing, end of story, let's ball type of occurance.
> 
> It's all basic common sense and considerateness to me.


Well, excused absences for me have always had to be previously arranged excuses. Plus, he wasn't absent... he was late.


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## chevelle (Feb 8, 2004)

Hap said:


> Nate has said that rules are rules, no matter what. So I doubt that if Zach called, and Nate said he understood, he'd let him start. He's said that he doesn't care about the reason, if you're late (or do something against team rules) you get punished, no matter who you are, no matter why it happened.



:clap:


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## ABM (Dec 30, 2002)

Hap said:


> Nate has said that rules are rules, no matter what. So I doubt that if Zach called, and Nate said he understood, he'd let him start. He's said that he doesn't care about the reason, if you're late (or do something against team rules) you get punished, no matter who you are, no matter why it happened.


Zach just does it FAR more than anyone else. That's my point. Oh, and personally, I wouldn't care if he were Clyde Drexler's cousin. Whatever Clyde did - or got away with, for that matter - has absolutely no bearing on how I feel about Randolph's apparent non-ceasing propensity for being tardy.

I'm looking for a LEADER! You can excuse away the situation all you want. Hap. I really couldn't care less. It is what it is.


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## ABM (Dec 30, 2002)

Case in point:



> When Randolph walked onto the court tonight for pregame warmups, assistant coach Dean Demopoulos stopped him with "What, you think you didn't have to go to work today?''


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## Foulzilla (Jan 11, 2005)

Sounds like Dean was making a joke to me.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

ABM said:


> Zach just does it FAR more than anyone else. That's my point. Oh, and personally, I wouldn't care if he were Clyde Drexler's cousin. Whatever Clyde did - or got away with, for that matter - has absolutely no bearing on how I feel about Randolph's apparent non-ceasing propensity for being tardy.


I think you're making a Canzano out of a Jaynes here. 

4 times over a 4 month+ period of time isn't enough to get your stomach in knots over. 



> I'm looking for a LEADER!


If we're looking for Zach to be our leader, we have much bigger problems them him being late to practices/shoot around 4 times in 4 months.



> You can excuse away the situation all you want. Hap. I really couldn't care less. It is what it is.


don't confuse excuses with explanations. I'm not excusing him, I'm just saying that you're making a lot out of nothing, AND trying to pin things onto it that aren't related necessarily. 

First you say that he should've left earlier, but leaving earlier wouldn't help him if the gate was locked. Then you say that you bet if he actually DID call Nate it would've been ok (despite the fact that Nate has said that it didn't matter why or how it happened, punishments are punishments). Now you're saying that it's Zach's "non ceasing propensity" for tardiness (4 times is non ceasing?)??

There's no need to make this out to be more than it is ABM.


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## DrewFix (Feb 9, 2004)

i could care less if he was late...
the thing of real importance is that he didn't start, had *5* ast, *14* rebounds and *17* pts! 5 freekin' assists! 
so he lives in a place that is protected from every thing except the weather. big freekin' whoop! 
Nate's the coach and figured it wasn't a big enough deal to let him play 44 minutes.

again *5* assists...
*ZACH!*


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## ABM (Dec 30, 2002)

Foulzilla said:


> Sounds like Dean was making a joke to me.


I guess I didn't hear the _sound_ bite.


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## Foulzilla (Jan 11, 2005)

ABM said:


> I guess I didn't hear the _sound_ bite.


Bah, smart ***. 

_Looks_ like Dean was making a joke to me.


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## chevelle (Feb 8, 2004)

ABM said:


> I guess I didn't hear the _sound_ bite.


How do you know the context of what Demopoulis said then? I thought it sounded kinda playful and sarcastic, myself.


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

Talkhard said:


> Wrong. McMillan can make him sit out an entire game or fine him.


that would solve everything wouldn´t it TH  heck the club could choose to sit him down for any amount of time they´d like... heck they could make public statements about looking into null and voiding his contract too... but where would any of those actions lead? With an even worse club with a ticked off maxed out player who would still be getting paid in full. 

Posters may not like it, but the CBA is the law. 

STOMP


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## ABM (Dec 30, 2002)

Just so long as Zach doesn't ultimately lead the entire team in a spirited round of..

_We don't need no education 
We don't need no thought control 
No dark sarcasm in the classroom 
Teachers leave them kids alone 
Hey teacher leave them kids alone 
All in all it's just another brick in the wall 
All in all you're just another brick in the wall._

:laugh:

Ahhhhhh. well.......................................................


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## chevelle (Feb 8, 2004)

Or a spirited round of "Puff, Puff, and Give"

:biggrin:


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## ABM (Dec 30, 2002)

chevelle said:


> How do you know the context of what Demopoulis said then? I thought it sounded kinda playful and sarcastic, myself.


Oh, there's NO question in my mind that Demopoulis was being facetious. My point, though, is why was there even _reason_ for him to quip about it?

I'm sure Zach will finally grow up..............................someday.


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## BBert (Dec 30, 2004)

ABM said:


> OK, let me pose this question to you, then: Let's _supppose_ he actually called Nate direct and 'splained the problems he was having. Do you think he would have then been excused and started?
> 
> I'm saying yes.


And I'm saying no. Nate undoubtedly has a no exceptions rule. If you are late, you don't start. Period. That means everyone. No excuses. It's not punishment, per se. It's a rule. 

For one thing, the coach doesn't have to sort out legitimate problems from made up crap or laziness. It's cleaner that way. Players don't start to feel someone got special treatment when they did not. The same logic is (should be) used in parenting.

If a guy comes in with a string of BS excuses or doesn't notify Nate when there is a problem -- Nate will undoubtedly give him a problem. And he won't start.

However, if a guy can't get to work due to an act of god, and he made the proper effort, and contacted the team, it's understandable. Spit happens to real people in the real world. He won't be punished (and Zach apparantly was not). But he won't start.

Seems simple to me.


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## Talkhard (May 13, 2003)

> I'm just saying that you're making a lot out of nothing


Yeah, I'm sure you're right. That's why McMillan wouldn't let him start, and why Demopoulis made the snide comment, and why the incident was mentioned in the paper. It's also why the Blazer TV commentators were talking about it during the game. It was all because it was "nothing."

One of the Laker players was asked after the game if Phil Jackson had a penalty for being late to practice. The player said he wasn't sure, since no one on the team had ever been late.

I guess the Lakers take practice a little more seriously than Randolph.


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## J_Bird (Mar 18, 2005)

Talkhard said:


> Yeah, I'm sure you're right. That's why McMillan wouldn't let him start, and why Demopoulis made the snide comment, and why the incident was mentioned in the paper. It's also why the Blazer TV commentators were talking about it during the game. It was all because it was "nothing."


It's hard to call it a snide comment unless you were present to hear it made. I agree with several of the other posters in that I thought it sounded like a joke. The paper mentioning it? It's not like they don't take every opportunity to stir up some controversy around the team.


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## ABM (Dec 30, 2002)

Blazer Bert said:


> .........and contacted the team, it's understandable.
> 
> Seems simple to me.


If he indeed contacted the team, it would be much more "simple" to me, as well. However, I'm not so sure he did.....and probably will never know.

As far as I know, Zach is still shutting out the entire team 4-0 at this point, though.


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## BBert (Dec 30, 2004)

Now that I've read the rest of the thread...

Yes, Zach had two or three tardies (one by about 30 seconds iirc) earlier in the year. He openly addressed it to the media, more than once, saying he 'can't be late no more' or something like that. He acknowledged he had to correct it. He seemingly did, until this latest occurrence. 

It appears that this tardy is not similar to the previous ones. It appears he wasn't late due to a lack of effort, a lack of organization, or due to indifference. It appears he would have been on time if not for circumstances outside of his control. It appears that this particular tardy is not part of a pattern.
It appears that Nate accepts that this time it was understandable, based on the fact there was no punishment or public comment. 

But what do I know? :whoknows: 

Mountain out of a mole hill, I think.


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## RPCity (Aug 29, 2005)

It's troubling to me....but not to the degree that ABM is taking it. Honestly....I think Zach is less of a leader than ANY of the "young" players on the team (meaning the straight outta HSers Telfair and Webster). I still don't know who I would point to as the leader of this team off the court. Maybe Dixon....but I doubt its Zach. Being the most talented player does not neccessarily equate to being a leader (good or bad). 

I do disagree with Hap on this one though....like I said its kind of troubling to have this happen 4 times in less than half a season. I dont know how much can be done about it though at this point other than hoping he snaps out of it.


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## BBert (Dec 30, 2004)

ABM said:


> If he indeed contacted the team, it would be much more "simple" to me, as well. However, I'm not so sure he did.....and probably will never know.
> 
> As far as I know, Zach is still shutting out the entire team 4-0 at this point, though.


Of course, I have no idea either. 

Let's say hypothetically, that this tardy was outside his control. It looks bad to you and many others precisely based on his past tardies, which probably were within his control. 

He made his bed. He established the pattern. As you say, he's the only guy with repeated tardies (that we know of). So now, even if he's changed his spots, he will continue to be painted with the same brush.

Let that be a lesson to all the kids out there! These types of mistakes can haunt you for the rest of your life! :biggrin: 

:cheers:


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## BBert (Dec 30, 2004)

RPCity said:


> I think Zach is less of a leader than ANY of the "young" players on the team (meaning the straight outta HSers Telfair and Webster). I still don't know who I would point to as the leader of this team off the court. Maybe Dixon....but I doubt its Zach. Being the most talented player does not neccessarily equate to being a leader (good or bad).


Yeah, apparantly Zach is the team comedian. Not the team leader.

Juan and Blake look more like leaders. I think four years of college, transitioning from freshman to senior leader, may sometimes help with that. Theo should be a team leader. Ruben (shudder) might try, but I don't know. Webster will be, I think, but it's not his time. Telfair has been described as having a leadership personality. But not Zach. Not yet, anyway. He's more like a buddy/I've got your back kind of guy (me thinks).


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## ABM (Dec 30, 2002)

Blazer Bert said:


> Of course, I have no idea either.
> 
> Let's say hypothetically, that this tardy was outside his control. It looks bad to you and many others precisely based on his past tardies, which probably were within his control.
> 
> ...


BRAVO! :clap:

Hope to see you at the Bash so that we can discuss more in depth. :cheers:


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## ABM (Dec 30, 2002)

Oh, and of *course* Canzano had to chime in. :laugh:



> Z-Bo.... can you show up on time?
> I'm troubled by Zach Randolph's 28-second punishment, but didn't feel it needed to be the focus after last night's game. It's the fourth time he's been late, and I asked Nate McMillan if he'd be surprised if Z-Bo was late again. Nate said, "Yes." But I won't.
> 
> Listen, if the guy really was late because his automatic gate wouldn't open, and you've accepted this as a valid reason, why sit him at all? Because if you're going to punish him for something you believe is wrong, then you need to see this all the way through. Anyone with a 3-year old knows that if you put a kid on the "naughty step" for 28 seconds, you've wasted about 28 seconds of your time.
> ...


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## Backboard Cam (Apr 29, 2003)

ABM said:


> ...Zach is supposed to be a LEADER....


Like Rasheed was supposed to be a leader?


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## MARIS61 (Apr 28, 2003)

Talkhard said:


> I guess the Lakers take practice a little more seriously than Randolph.


Sure wouldn't guess that from watching last night's game. :biggrin:


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## 2k (Dec 30, 2005)

Maybe Nate should offer positive reinforcement. If a player is punctual for a month they get their headband back. As long as they are punctual they can keep it. If they are late they loose it until they are punctual for a month. Zach and Miles sure look better with their headbands.


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## BBert (Dec 30, 2004)

My previous post expresses my disagreement with Canzano's premise. I don't believe Zach was punished at all. Just made to follow the rules. The 28 seconds is evidence of that. 

If Zach hadn't called in with a good explanation, and was 5 minutes late after his previous infractions, I doubt he'd have played in the first quarter, maybe the first half. That would be punishment. Does anyone really believe Nate is a softy? Or doesn't know how to discipline a player? Or lacks the necessary, ahem, equipment to do so?

Is Canzano questioning Nate's "heart"? 

He seems to believe that criticizing people, challenging their judgement, and questioning their "heart" is, after all, his higher purpose in life. Why, if it weren't for Canzano calling out the team, the Blazers surely would have lost last night.  Thank goodness he's getting Nate in line now. :whatever:


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## Blazer Ringbearer (Jan 28, 2003)

I was late for work today... and I don't even have a good excuse - just have a really hard time waking up, always have. Luckily, the local papers don't run stories when that happens to me.

And of course, I can just stay at work later...


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## Backboard Cam (Apr 29, 2003)

Blazer Ringbearer said:


> I was late for work today... and I don't even have a good excuse - just have a really hard time waking up, always have. Luckily, the local papers don't run stories when that happens to me.
> 
> And of course, I can just stay at work later...


You should sit on the bench and watch your fellow employees work for a while, then when one of them makes a mistake you can start working.


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## BlazerCaravan (Aug 12, 2004)

I thought his punishment was 28 seconds long because Theo got 2 fouls in those 28 seconds.


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## ABM (Dec 30, 2002)

I suppose, some of you didn't catch the _spirit_ of my comments. And, perhaps, I'm reading far too much into Zach's actions. But, then again, perhaps not. :whoknows:

Hey, the GOOD news is.....they went out and beat the Lakers! And that's ALWAYS a good thing. :banana: 

*GO BLAZERS!!*


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## It's_GO_Time (Oct 13, 2005)

Zach, here is a tip . . . arrive to practice an hour early each day (especially after you told the press you'll just stop being late). That way you will never be late to practice. 

Can anyone see Zach arriving to practice an hour early each day? Just not going to happen with Zach . . . which is the issue I have with the Blazer's highest paid player. There is little hope he takes his commitment to the team to that level. 

By now I'm accepting Zach for who he is and hope he doesn't pass on his work ethics to the young players. Comne to think about it, maybe Zach got his work ethics and attitude about commitment from Sheed.


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## chromekilla (Aug 21, 2005)

Ive never heard of an automatic gate getting stuck.If it did most of them have a manual opening thing where u can pull it open.Hope z-bo gets this problem fixed.


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## thekid (Apr 3, 2003)

Electric gates can get stuck or stop operating. Funny thing is he was benched for 30 seconds.


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## Talkhard (May 13, 2003)

> I was late for work today... and I don't even have a good excuse - just have a really hard time waking up, always have. Luckily, the local papers don't run stories when that happens to me.


The NBA is different from an ordinary job. I can also wander in late to my job if I want to, but there are not 15 other guys waiting for me so we can all run drills together. The Blazers are a "team," and their success depends on each guy pulling together for the good of the entire team. Professional sports teams depend heavily on comeraderie, loyalty, and a sense of "oneness." It's very important to have every guy pull his own weight, and that doesn't happen if one or two guys are continually late.


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## Talkhard (May 13, 2003)

> Come to think about it, maybe Zach got his work ethics and attitude about commitment from Sheed.


Uh, huh. That's very possible.


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## ProZach (Oct 13, 2005)

ABM said:


> This WHOLE season? you make it appears as if it's completed already.
> 
> 1) No, I've not been late to work in as long as I can remember.
> 
> ...



The way you're overreacting makes me think you are Canzano or something.. Was he supposed to run through the gate or what? Jesus Christ, get a grip. He shouldn't have been benched at all. 

As for his other tardies, irrelevant to this one. It stands on it's own and it was out of his control.


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## Blazer Freak (Jul 11, 2004)

Talkhard said:


> Uh, Blazer Freak, you might want to re-read the McMillan quote at the bottom of your post. That's the message he's trying to get into Randolph's thick skull.


Yeah, I mean being late because the gate is down because of the ****TY WEATHER we are having is all Zach's fault. Even if he left 30 min. early like you said, the gate still wouldnt work


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## Phatguysrule (Jul 5, 2005)

I honestly was upset at Zach, until I heard that the power went out and he was locked in. There was really nothing else he could do to get to practice on time, besides leave earlier (which I would think he'd start doing now). There is no reason he can't be at practice a half hour early. 

However, this is obviously not part of a pattern, IMHO. I think he was punished accordingly (though it would have been nice if Theo wasn't getting called for ticky tack fouls). But I think if he is late again this season, I probably would suspend him (with or without pay, I don't care. He wants PT), just to make an example of him, and let him know how important it is that he be there on time. 

While I understand why a lot of people are upset about this, I think they're making a bigger deal out of this than need be.

:cheers:


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## Masbee (Dec 31, 2002)

Zidane said:


> Ive never heard of an automatic gate getting stuck.If it did most of them have a manual opening thing where u can pull it open.Hope z-bo gets this problem fixed.


Yes they can. Unless they have a battery backup, when the power goes out how do they open?

If you have an easy manual override to a gate, why have the gate?


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## It's_GO_Time (Oct 13, 2005)

Blazer Freak said:


> Yeah, I mean being late because the gate is down because of the ****TY WEATHER we are having is all Zach's fault. Even if he left 30 min. early like you said, the gate still wouldnt work



Call a cab. No one likes paying for cabs, but I'm guessing even after Zach feeds his family and dogs he has enough for a cab.

I get the argument that it was out of his control. But it is ironic that out of anyone on the team, god struck Zach. It's like saying Damon tested positive for mj due to second hand smoke. 

Also, Zach lied to the police about a shooting, do you think he would hesitate to lie to management? I wish I could just give Zach the benefit of the doubt, but personally I look at someone's history when analzyzing their story. If this was Blake who was late, I wouldn't have even blinked. But this is Zach, and I can't help but wonder if the gate just wasn't a convenient excuse. Let's see I alrerady used the forgot the time of practice excuse. Dog ate my shoes is too cliche. There was a power outage and we have an electronic gate, bingo. I'm probably projecting a little too much about my school days . . .


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## SolidGuy3 (Apr 23, 2005)

People have to remember everybody makes mistakes, we're human. Randolph gets special treatment because he is at the top of the food chain. He is a multi-millionaire who gets to play basketball for the living because he worked hard to make it to the NBA.


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## It's_GO_Time (Oct 13, 2005)

SolidGuy3 said:


> People have to remember everybody makes mistakes, we're human. Randolph gets special treatment because he is at the top of the food chain. He is a multi-millionaire who gets to play basketball for the living because he worked hard to make it to the NBA.



I agree that he gets special treatment because he has basketball skills. I think in society, if you have special skills, you get special treatment, so why shouldn't Zach get special treatment. I figured his special treatment is an 8 figure salary per year. But maybe its more than that. I do think Nate is doing the best he can to try a whip Zach into shape without having Zach go awol.


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## handclap problematic (Nov 6, 2003)

I mean, it basically all boils down to whether or not you beleive his story. I mean, last night, the power went off in my place in Covallis while I was sleeping. Well, needless to say I was late for my Calculus class at OSU. That is the way life works sometimes. His story is a good one...that's all I have to say. Especially since I have had the same type of electrical problems lately. 

Prunetang


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## MARIS61 (Apr 28, 2003)

I never understood the whole "less PT if you're late to practice" thing.

Like being suspended for skipping school.

This could work out great.

Next time I'm late to work I'll ask to be excused from work until after morning break.


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## It's_GO_Time (Oct 13, 2005)

Prunetang said:


> I mean, it basically all boils down to whether or not you beleive his story. I mean, last night, the power went off in my place in Covallis while I was sleeping. Well, needless to say I was late for my Calculus class at OSU. That is the way life works sometimes. His story is a good one...that's all I have to say. Especially since I have had the same type of electrical problems lately.
> 
> Prunetang


Yea right Prunetang. I'm guessing you drank too much the night before (while enjoying the storm). Late for class huh? That's it, no fieldtrip for you!


Sidenote: I have an internal alarm clock and wake up everyday at a certain time with or without an alarm clock. Anyone have that or am I just a freak?


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## It's_GO_Time (Oct 13, 2005)

MARIS61 said:


> Next time I'm late to work I'll ask to be excused from work until after morning break.


Maris, you have to have a job, before you're late to it. :biggrin:


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## The Sebastian Express (Mar 3, 2005)

I used to have one when I had an extremely set schedule. I would wake up at 5:50 every day.


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## barfo (Jan 2, 2003)

Masbee said:


> If you have an easy manual override to a gate, why have the gate?


You mean, because then the bad guys could just open your gate? 

There are such things as non-electrical locks. For example, you could have the ability to unlock the gate with a key and then roll it out of the way via brute strength. Or you could have a release lever for the gate lock inside a panel secured by a padlock. 

barfo


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## handclap problematic (Nov 6, 2003)

Well, I have been inside a few neighborhoods like that....and a couple of the "higher end" ones had a security code that you had to enter. It was set up much like a storage unit is. You pull up to a little keyboard, roll down your window and type in the code to get it to open. Another one had a card with a magnetic strip that would open it with one swipe. 


Prunetang


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## Phatguysrule (Jul 5, 2005)

Kiss_My_Darius said:


> Call a cab. No one likes paying for cabs, but I'm guessing even after Zach feeds his family and dogs he has enough for a cab.
> 
> I get the argument that it was out of his control. But it is ironic that out of anyone on the team, god struck Zach. It's like saying Damon tested positive for mj due to second hand smoke.


Riiiight, let's see, you want the guy to call a cab (which usually takes 30-45 minutes to arrive) and be late for practice anyway? What does this solve?

I'm sure he had to go to whoever had the key, and have them open the gate. I'm sure this probably put him behind by at least 10-20 minutes. If he was planning on getting to practice 10 minutes early, he'd have been as much as 10 minutes late. If he'd have just called a cab, he'd have likely been even later. 

I'm not defending Zach here, he was late, and deserved to be punished. But this is being blown out of proportion. These things happen. Though, I also understand that if he hadn't been late a few times before, it wouldn't be an issue for most.




Kiss_My_Darius said:


> Also, Zach lied to the police about a shooting, do you think he would hesitate to lie to management? I wish I could just give Zach the benefit of the doubt, but personally I look at someone's history when analzyzing their story. If this was Blake who was late, I wouldn't have even blinked. But this is Zach, and I can't help but wonder if the gate just wasn't a convenient excuse. Let's see I alrerady used the forgot the time of practice excuse. Dog ate my shoes is too cliche. There was a power outage and we have an electronic gate, bingo. I'm probably projecting a little too much about my school days . . .


According to the lead detective who was interviewed on "The Fan" a few days after the shooting, Zbo did NOT lie to the police. The detective said that Zbo was very helpful, and was not in danger of being charged with anything (lying to the police is a crime, and he'd have been charged if he'd done so). They only wanted to talk to him again to clear a few things up. 

I don't understand why people feel the need to say things which aren't true about these players... I just don't understand it...


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## Phatguysrule (Jul 5, 2005)

barfo said:


> You mean, because then the bad guys could just open your gate?
> 
> There are such things as non-electrical locks. For example, you could have the ability to unlock the gate with a key and then roll it out of the way via brute strength. Or you could have a release lever for the gate lock inside a panel secured by a padlock.
> 
> barfo


I'm sure everybody in the gated community doesn't have a key to these gates, I would imagine Zbo had to go get the key (ie wake somebody up), and that's what caused him to be late.

That said, he should really be leaving earlier... there is no reason he shouldn't be to practice a half hour early.


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## It's_GO_Time (Oct 13, 2005)

Phatguysrule said:


> According to the lead detective who was interviewed on "The Fan" a few days after the shooting, Zbo did NOT lie to the police. The detective said that Zbo was very helpful, and was not in danger of being charged with anything (lying to the police is a crime, and he'd have been charged if he'd done so). They only wanted to talk to him again to clear a few things up.
> 
> I don't understand why people feel the need to say things which aren't true about these players... I just don't understand it...



If you're talking to me, sometimes I'm wrong. I don't feel a "need to say things that aren't true," I'm just throwing out my random thoughts and belief on different topic. Have you read this article in USA Today?

ANDERSON, Ind. (AP) — Zach Randolph of the Portland Trail Blazers might face a criminal charge for misleading police officers investigating the shootings of three men on a nightclub dance floor, a prosecutor said Monday. 
The NBA forward's brother, Roger Randolph, 22, faces preliminary charges of criminal recklessness for the Sunday shootings. 

Madison County Prosecutor Rodney Cummings said Zach Randolph told investigators he did not know who fired the shots, but other witnesses said he held his brother while Roger Randolph fired a gun. 

"I think there's a good chance Zach Randolph is going to be charged with a crime as well," Cummings told The Associated Press. "I would certainly say he's being investigated for false informing or assisting a criminal."


Turns out Zach went back to the police (with a lawyer) to "clarify" his story. no Charges were brought


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## ABM (Dec 30, 2002)

ProZach said:


> The way you're overreacting makes me think you are Canzano or something.. Was he supposed to run through the gate or what? Jesus Christ, get a grip. He shouldn't have been benched at all.
> 
> As for his other tardies, irrelevant to this one. It stands on it's own and it was out of his control.



Out of respect, if I'm gonna be late to an obligation, I ALWAYS call. If you would have read some of my other posts on this issue, you'd realize that therein lies the crux of the matter from my perspective.

Plus, considering Zach has been late so many times already this season, I would think that calling Nate, Dean, whomever would have been the FIRST thing he would have done. What's so difficult about fulfilling a simple task as that?!

Then, throw into the issue about Nate drilling the guys about lack of heart and effort following the Heat game? Well, let's just say that, apparently, Nate's message there didn't sink all that deep in Zach's soul. Otherwise, the above (calling ahead) would have happened.

Oh, and on the quote from Dean regarding Zach not showing up? Hmmmm.....I wonder who was in earshot of those remarks, then printed them? I'm guessing Demopoulos "wanted" them heard. Otherwise, they would have been made in private.

Look, this horse is probably close to full rigor mortis, but, personally, I just would have liked to have seem a bit more responsible behavior from the guy the organization has apparently chosen to build its team around.


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## Foulzilla (Jan 11, 2005)

Kiss_My_Darius said:


> Sidenote: I have an internal alarm clock and wake up everyday at a certain time with or without an alarm clock.


I sort of have one. Whenever I have something I need to wake up early for that is really important (ie job interview, plane flight, etc) I always wake up before my alarm goes off. It's very strange considering I generally lack any sense of time while I'm concious (I need to check my watch constantly).



> Anyone have that or am I just a freak?


Those two are not mutually exclusive. :devil_2:


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

ABM said:


> Oh, and on the quote from Dean regarding Zach not showing up? Hmmmm.....I wonder who was in earshot of those remarks, then printed them? I'm guessing Demopoulos "wanted" them heard. Otherwise, they would have been made in private.


Consider the source of who "quoted" it. If we start taking what Quick and Canzano say as the gospel truth, or at least in the context they present it, we might as well start finding the nearest cliff and start jumping off.

They're just planting seeds in peoples minds, so they'll complain,a nd then their bosses at the pathetic local paper will keep saying "keep writing that dreck!".


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## ABM (Dec 30, 2002)

Hap said:


> Consider the source of who "quoted" it. If we start taking what Quick and Canzano say as the gospel truth, or at least in the context they present it, we might as well start finding the nearest cliff and start jumping off.


Uhmmmmm, there's a HUGE difference between writing one's opinion and directly quoting somebody else.

HUGE difference.


Not so sure context is even in question here. Could be wrong, though.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

ABM said:


> Uhmmmmm, there's a HUGE difference between writing one's opinion and directly quoting somebody else.
> 
> HUGE difference.
> 
> ...


there's also a difference in quoting someone being a smart aleck about something, and quoting something as though they were dead serious, WHEN they were being a smart aleck.

So if Dean said it like "Jeesh Zach, I'm glad you decided to grace us with your presence!" but was just being a bit of a jokester about it..do you see how it looks different if you go "I'm glad you decided to grace us with your presence" and don't mention that he might've been kidding?


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## ABM (Dec 30, 2002)

Hap said:


> there's also a difference in quoting someone being a smart aleck about something, and quoting something as though they were dead serious, WHEN they were being a smart aleck.
> 
> So if Dean said it like "Jeesh Zach, I'm glad you decided to grace us with your presence!" but was just being a bit of a jokester about it..do you see how it looks different if you go "I'm glad you decided to grace us with your presence" and don't mention that he might've been kidding?


Yeah, but my guess is, if Zach would have done the right thing and actually called ahead(?), it would have rendered the quote unnecessary and may very well have not been made.

Peace Out.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

ABM said:


> Yeah, but my guess is, if Zach would have done the right thing and actually called ahead(?), it would have rendered the quote unnecessary and may very well have not been made.
> 
> Peace Out.


I believe it was said that he DID call ahead letting the team know. But as was said earlier in this thread (iirc) Nate doesn't care why it happened. 

Maybe the quote was good natured ribbing, as it seems the team gets along with each other fine.

The media wants us to think otherwise, but I doubt anyone has any issues with anyone. As for the bench tipping issue, I'd bet that was more likely caused by a frustrated player because of something that happened in practice, and not for the reasons that was guessed (?) in the media and here.


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## cpt.napalm (Feb 23, 2005)

The Blazers already have the team bus policy where everyone arrives at the rose garden in the team bus. Why not have it pick everyone up at home like a school bus. Then no one has any excuses and it woudl help with the whole building the team concept.


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## ABM (Dec 30, 2002)

Hap said:


> I believe it was said that he DID call ahead letting the team know....


FWIW: 

[email protected]



> John,
> 
> Did Zach actually call ahead to the team (Nate, Dean, etc.) and let them know he was gonna be late for the shoot-around Wednesday night?
> 
> I'm saying no, and it would be the differentiating reason as to why I'm so ticked at the guy right now....despite his improving play on the court.


Canzano's response..



> no.
> *
> I was there when the assistants first saw him. They didn't expect him to be late.
> *
> jc


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

Your proof is the guy who's poisoned the well in the first place. Well, that proves it for me.


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## Phatguysrule (Jul 5, 2005)

Kiss_My_Darius said:


> If you're talking to me, sometimes I'm wrong. I don't feel a "need to say things that aren't true," I'm just throwing out my random thoughts and belief on different topic. Have you read this article in USA Today?
> 
> ANDERSON, Ind. (AP) — Zach Randolph of the Portland Trail Blazers might face a criminal charge for misleading police officers investigating the shootings of three men on a nightclub dance floor, a prosecutor said Monday.
> The NBA forward's brother, Roger Randolph, 22, faces preliminary charges of criminal recklessness for the Sunday shootings.
> ...


No, I'm not accusing you of making things up, (and I'm sorry if I came off like that) I'm saying the people who did say those things mislead you, and I don't understand why they'd do that. Zach was not charged, and according to the lead detective, he was never going to be charged for lying. That's not something he reportedly said, he said it on the radio, and I heard it. He said the worst thing Zbo could be charged with would be a misdemeanor, but not for lying or misleading the police.


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## It's_GO_Time (Oct 13, 2005)

Phatguysrule said:


> No, I'm not accusing you of making things up, (and I'm sorry if I came off like that) I'm saying the people who did say those things mislead you, and I don't understand why they'd do that. Zach was not charged, and according to the lead detective, he was never going to be charged for lying. That's not something he reportedly said, he said it on the radio, and I heard it. He said the worst thing Zbo could be charged with would be a misdemeanor, but not for lying or misleading the police.



Thanks for the clarification. As I said, I'll admit I'm often wrong ( I feel like Morgan Freeman in Shawshank Redemption, I'm the only person who is ever wrong in this insane asylum). I could see how it comes across as lying, but really I don't intentionally say things that aren't true.

With regard to Zach. First, I have gone on record as saying I'm disappointed with Zach's attitude but accept him for who he is and do not think he should be traded unless we get something significant in return (same attitude I had with Sheed). But are you sure you heard that right on the fan? In the article, those are direct quotes from the prosecutor on the case. If you pull up the article (I don't know how to attach the link), what you are saying is the same thing Blazer PR is saying. But prosecutors and dectives work together and are usually on the same page. I'm pretty sure Zach came clean only after being threatened with criminal charges. (The misdemeanor charge threatened was for lying to the police.) 

Anyways, Zach is Zach and as long as he keeps putting up numbers, who cared if he lied to the police or not.


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## Backboard Cam (Apr 29, 2003)

Phatguysrule said:


> However, this is obviously not part of a pattern, IMHO... But I think if he is late again this season, I probably would suspend him (with or without pay, I don't care. He wants PT), just to make an example of him, and let him know how important it is that he be there on time.


It quite obviously IS a pattern, the pattern is Zach being late for shootaround sometimes. More than any other Blazer.

Saying what you would do if he was late one more time shows that you DO see the pattern, the next time will be part of that pattern.

For me, it's a  , not a :curse: . Not the worst problem the team could have, but if everyone else is on time and one person is late, that can get frustrating for the others. It seems that it is frustrating to Nate, but not too frustrating.


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## chromekilla (Aug 21, 2005)

I mean't ive never heard of a automatic gate getting stuck and not being able to open.The manual thing isint the easiest thing to open but it works plus most have a battery as u said.I want to belive Zach but its one excuse after another.


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## BealzeeBob (Jan 6, 2003)

Just as an FYI, rolling gates almost always have a manual override, for these types of situations. The override is usually just a hand crank, kinda like that hand cranks used to start very early automobiles. The crank is located inside the housing for the controls and gears, which is on the inside of the gate, where outsiders can't access it. The housing is usually locked. It's very unlikely that Zach had a key to unlock the housing to allow him to open the gate. He would have to find someone that had that key, and that knew how to operate the override.

Don't know how helpful that is, but that's my story, and I'm stick'n to it.

For me, this is a fairly minor deal. It's not like he was chasing a referee around, and threatening to off him.

Go Blazers


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## Phatguysrule (Jul 5, 2005)

BealzeeBob said:


> Just as an FYI, rolling gates almost always have a manual override, for these types of situations. The override is usually just a hand crank, kinda like that hand cranks used to start very early automobiles. The crank is located inside the housing for the controls and gears, which is on the inside of the gate, where outsiders can't access it. The housing is usually locked. It's very unlikely that Zach had a key to unlock the housing to allow him to open the gate. He would have to find someone that had that key, and that knew how to operate the override.
> 
> Don't know how helpful that is, but that's my story, and I'm stick'n to it.
> 
> ...


Yep, good post. I completely agree.


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## Blazer Ringbearer (Jan 28, 2003)

How late was he anyway?

I don't really care that much, so don't think I'm trying to be an apologist, but I don't feel like I have the facts.

Seems like if he was just 15 minutes late, the story adds up... if he was heading out the door to just make it on time and he got held up at the gate because it didn't work automatically and the guards had to fumble around for a while figuring out what to do... maybe there was a bunch of people waiting to get out. He also might not have properly accounted for whatever traffic was going on - I don't really know what time it was.

Ultimately, it seems like he was probably running a bit late or just on time and hit unforseen difficulties. Hopefully, he'll learn from that and allow for more margin in the future. Beyond that, what can you do? I think Zach is clearly motivated based on how well he's recovered from surgery and the way he's been trying to change his game. But I don't think he's that mature or responsible at this point. Hopefully he grows up a bit, if not, the team will have to find a way to work around it and set boundaries.


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## barfo (Jan 2, 2003)

Zach said:


> “The power went out at my house, and I couldn’t open my (electric) gate,” he says. “I had to open it manually, and I broke (the gate) trying to do it. Coach understood.”


That sounds to me like it was the gate on his driveway, not the gate to his neighborhood. So if he had to find someone else to get the key, it was probably his butler/yardboy, not some security company. It also sounds like he didn't bother finding the key, but instead took a more Zach-like approach to the problem.

What we need is pictures, a timeline, some interviews with the gate manufacturer, the gate installer, the power company, and his household help. We've got to get to the bottom of this Gategate scandal.

barfo


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## CanJohno (Feb 11, 2005)

barfo said:


> That sounds to me like it was the gate on his driveway, not the gate to his neighborhood. So if he had to find someone else to get the key, it was probably his butler/yardboy, not some security company. It also sounds like he didn't bother finding the key, but instead took a more Zach-like approach to the problem.
> 
> What we need is pictures, a timeline, some interviews with the gate manufacturer, the gate installer, the power company, and his household help. We've got to get to the bottom of this *Gategate* scandal.
> 
> barfo


:laugh:


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## ABM (Dec 30, 2002)

barfo said:


> It also sounds like he didn't bother finding the key, but instead took a more Zach-like approach to the problem.



Ruben = SAR = Security Gate.

Yep, I agree. :laugh:


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

Barfo's onto something..

we have ourselves a watergate type situation! But it's Electric gate-gate not just gategate.


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## ABM (Dec 30, 2002)

Hap said:


> Barfo's onto something..
> 
> we have ourselves a watergate type situation! But it's Electric gate-gate not just gategate.


There's a distinct difference to be considered here, though. This was a break-_out_, as opposed to a break-_in_.


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## ProZach (Oct 13, 2005)

ABM said:


> Look, this horse is probably close to full rigor mortis, but, personally, I just would have liked to have seem a bit more responsible behavior from the guy the organization has apparently chosen to build its team around.




Well, personally, I'd like a million dollars.. I'm not sure which will happen first. 

All I know, is if the big problem in Portland is that Zach didn't give a courtesy call for being a few minutes late then we're doing better than I thought...


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

I was there during shoot around before the Laker game and I over heard the conversation between Z-Bo and Demopolis and it was Canzano who was sitting on the bench and over heard it as well....Dean was saying it in a joking manner, but the way he said it lead me to believe that the issue had already been addressed prior and that Dean was just giving him a hard time....

It wasn't a very big deal what Dean said to him and I'm not a Canzano or Quick apologist but I don't think they put that in there to ruffle any feathers...


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## ABM (Dec 30, 2002)

zagsfan20 said:


> I....Dean was saying it in a joking manner, but the way he said it lead me to believe that the issue had *already* been addressed prior and that Dean was just giving him a hard time....


Well, there ya go, then. Full vindication. There's peace in the world once again.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

ABM said:


> Well, there ya go, then. Full vindication. There's peace in the world once again.


vinidication for who? because surely thats not vindicating what you said.


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## ABM (Dec 30, 2002)

Hap said:


> vinidication for who? because surely thats not vindicating what you said.



If I read zags comments correctly, it would appear that Zach "may" have called Nate or whomever before Dean's comments to him. Hence, when he used the term, "already." However, just an assumption on my part.

That's all I've really been saying through all this, though. If Zach indeed had called ahead, then no big deal. If not, then, truly, that's what I originally had issue with. Especially in light of his lack of "promptness" track record thus far this season. Even _more_ especially in light of how Nate couples promptness and hard work with his overall philosophy towards the game itself. According to Nate, these things go hand-in-hand and are _preached_ on a daily basis. I would think by now that Z-Bo would embrace it as _gospel_. If he called ahead, then perhaps he has, perhaps he has.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

ABM said:


> If I read zags comments correctly, it would appear that Zach "may" have called Nate or whomever before Dean's comments to him. Hence, when he used the term, "already." However, just an assumption on my part.
> 
> That's all I've really been saying through all this, though. If Zach indeed had called ahead, then no big deal. If not, then, truly, that's what I originally had issue with. Especially in light of his lack of "promptness" track record thus far this season. Even _more_ especially in light of how Nate couples promptness and hard work with his overall philosophy towards the game itself. According to Nate, these things go hand-in-hand and are _preached_ on a daily basis. I would think by now that Z-Bo would embrace it as _gospel_. If he called ahead, then perhaps he has, perhaps he has.



so you're saying it was vindication for Zach, and not you. (?)


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## ABM (Dec 30, 2002)

Hap said:


> so you're saying it was vindication for Zach, and not you. (?)


Ooops, sorry. I guess I wasn't too clear, huh.

Yes, vindication (from me) for Zach. FWIW.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

ABM said:


> Ooops, sorry. I guess I wasn't too clear, huh.
> 
> Yes, vindication (from me) for Zach. FWIW.


ok, makes sense now. It seemed a little confusing.


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