# GAME THREAD: Blazers/T-Wolves



## ABM (Dec 30, 2002)

*GAME THREAD: Blazers/T-Wolves (TNT 6:30 PM PST)*

I get to watch the game!! :clap:


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## sheefo13 (Jul 13, 2002)

lets go wolves, we watch some payback


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## ABM (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>sheefo13</b>!
> lets go wolves, we watch some payback


It's posts such as that, which keep you pinned to a 2-star rating.  (j/k)

:clap:*GO BLAZERS!!!!*:clap:


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## NateBishop3 (Jul 22, 2003)

terrible start!!!


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## Blazerfan024 (Aug 15, 2003)

Fire Cheek PLZZZZZZZZZZZZ


A 3 guard lineup against Minn COME ON CHEEKS WAKE UP MAN!!!


It would be diff if damon was taller than one of KG's legs.


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## ABM (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>NateBishop3</b>!
> terrible start!!!


Many of the Blazers's early missed shots - very makeable! Ugghh!

Zach, Damon, Q, McInnis - a combined 3-16.

DA in vewy, vewy early....


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## Blazerfan024 (Aug 15, 2003)

Anyone watchin the game on TNT did u hear the announcer about Rasheed not contending shot saying "oh he is playing like a guy that is going to be traded , his head really is not into game" blah blah 

MAN HE HAS 2 FOULS AND DOESNT WANT TO BE TAKEN OUT


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## Trader Ed (Jun 17, 2002)

Its not necessarily Cheeks...
they are not playing D... how many breaks have they run already...
Garnett has made a few at least


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## ABM (Dec 30, 2002)

Guys, as bad as it looks right now - yes, very bad - I _still_ have a feeling that the Blazers will "wake up" and make a competetive game out of this.

Can you say Kings game?


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## Blazerfan024 (Aug 15, 2003)

Im sorry i have to diagree when cheeks goes with 

DAMON
Mcginnis 
DA 

That is one small lineup especially with damon involved and he has shown he has no D.

With Person its a little better .


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## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

Sheed is not in this game mentally.


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## Blazerfan024 (Aug 15, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Fork</b>!
> Sheed is not in this game mentally.


The whole BLAZER team is not there mentally


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## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Blazerfan024</b>!
> 
> 
> The whole BLAZER team is not there mentally


At least guys like Patterson and Anderson are putting out effort.


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## gambitnut (Jan 4, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Blazerfan024</b>!
> Anyone watchin the game on TNT did u hear the announcer about Rasheed not contending shot saying "oh he is playing like a guy that is going to be traded , his head really is not into game" blah blah
> 
> MAN HE HAS 2 FOULS AND DOESNT WANT TO BE TAKEN OUT


Did you hear them say that playing at SF has hurt him because he has been playing outside? I don't know about anyone else here but it seems to me like he has played inside more this year than past years.


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## hasoos (Jan 3, 2003)

*Interesting*

I can't see the game, but I tell you what I do see on the web cast of the game. 

Missed Jump Shot.
Missed Jump Shot.
Missed Jump Shot.
Turnover.
Missed Jump Shot.

Over and over again, it does not leave much to the imagination. You will not win many games being a jump shooting team, and playing that style of basketball makes it hard to get involved at the game on the defensive end.


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

I have a feeling the Blazers will lead in this game.


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## Blazerfan024 (Aug 15, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Fork</b>!
> 
> 
> At least guys like Patterson and Anderson are putting out effort.


Oh ok so a guy who hasnt played this season is running around the court who looks lost and patterson who always shows up . Sorry I I shouldnt say whole team i should say 10 players are NOT there mentally so far.


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## Nightfly (Sep 24, 2002)

God, this is embarrassing at half time...

I'm not even going to say the score...


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

wow..barkley was dropping "bobby gross, lionel hollins, dave twardzik" reference...and they were correctly referenced too!


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

You all sound like the Seattle board at halftime of the game WE played against them.


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## barfo (Jan 2, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hap</b>!
> wow..barkley was dropping "bobby gross, lionel hollins, dave twardzik" reference...and they were correctly referenced too!


Yes, but Chuck knows basketball, no surprise there.
What surprises me (a little) is that Chuck appears to be fairly drunk, on-air. He's having a hard time getting the words out.

barfo


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## Nightfly (Sep 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>barfo</b>!
> 
> 
> Yes, but Chuck knows basketball, no surprise there.
> ...


Now I really wish I had cable TV, just to see that.

Barkley is funny enough, let alone being drunk...


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

Unlike most games early this season where we fell behind early, I just don't see how we can catch up. We just don't have the horses. Addition by subtraction strikes again.

Very sad to see.

Ed O.


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

the horses are there.

we're only missing Dale Davis.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>NathanLane</b>!
> the horses are there.
> 
> we're only missing Dale Davis.


Um. Yeah. The horses are there.

Sure.

Ed O.


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

Good stats:

We're shooting 100% from the FT line and we haven't missed a three all game.


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## gambitnut (Jan 4, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>NathanLane</b>!
> Good stats:
> 
> We're shooting 100% from the FT line and we haven't missed a three all game.


Does that mean we haven't taken any of either one?


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## gambitnut (Jan 4, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Ed O</b>!
> 
> 
> Um. Yeah. The horses are there.
> ...


Who else is missing? Carroll and Dickens?


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

we were 3-3
now Q just missed


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

*38-61*

okay....

this is just the suspense before the miracle happens


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## barfo (Jan 2, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>gambitnut</b>!
> 
> 
> Who else is missing? Carroll and Dickens?


I think Ed is saying we don't have the horses on the roster. Compared to, perhaps, previous years (or this year prior to Bonzi trade) or other teams. Not that the horses are missing this particular game...

barfo


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## hasoos (Jan 3, 2003)

*Look at ths positive side*

The team will get to play the younger players some, get them some good PT. The team is not going to get better unless the young guys improve and win some starting spots, so why not play them and see if we can roll the dice and get lucky.


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## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

Man the Blazers should be ashamed of themselves with the effort theyre putting out tonight... theyre not even playing...


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

*45-65*

We're winning the third qtr by 2!


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

*50-69*

Now we're up 3!!

Woohoo!!


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## gambitnut (Jan 4, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>barfo</b>!
> 
> 
> I think Ed is saying we don't have the horses on the roster. Compared to, perhaps, previous years (or this year prior to Bonzi trade) or other teams. Not that the horses are missing this particular game...
> ...





> Originally posted by <b>Ed O</b>!
> Unlike most games early this season
> 
> Ed O.


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## Trader Ed (Jun 17, 2002)

Rooting for the qtr scores is our only hope

Gosh we look pathetic on defense... we just can not make any trade resembling that NY trade
we need Sheed on D.. he is the only one who can play D on this team except for Ruben


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## gambitnut (Jan 4, 2003)

*Re: 50-69*



> Originally posted by <b>NathanLane</b>!
> Now we're up 3!!
> 
> Woohoo!!


Now, THAT'S some positive thinking! Now all we need is about nine more quarters!


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## Trader Ed (Jun 17, 2002)

Madsen has half of Sheeds points right now


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

We just missed a shot and Sheed was under the hoop and he didn't even jump for it. Ugh


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

Bonzi Wells was on the team early this season, gambitnut. He was a difference maker and one of our best players. Because we've replaced him with a non-factor and a future pick, I feel the team's talent level has been dramatically reduced, and I feel that the team knows that the franchise is simply not interested in winning anything this year.

Add in Dale's absence and this is a bad team. After tonight they're 5-11 in their last 16 games, and it could get worse before it gets better.

Ed O.


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

we could still win this game

every game is 48 minutes long


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

I SO wish that three by McInnis had gone in. We should have drawn that play up for Sheed. What an opportunity to sneak within 14!


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## FeloniusThunk (Jan 1, 2003)

The Goldwire to Madsen combo is simply too much for Damon and Zach to contain.

I'm going to go cry now.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Ed O</b>!
> Unlike most games early this season where we fell behind early, I just don't see how we can catch up. We just don't have the horses. Addition by subtraction strikes again.
> 
> Very sad to see.
> ...


yah, because god knows Bonzi would be the difference maker in this game...

when are you going to get off the bonzi riff?

He wasn't making the difference you keep suggesting he was.

Bottom line, the team is being out played, out smarted, and out hustled.

bonzi was one of the biggest problems when it came to those. 

I mean, for gods aske, Mark Madsen is outplaying the blazers by his own.


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## NateBishop3 (Jul 22, 2003)

Does anyone think we AREN'T going to make a trade soon? Something is going to happen... I can feel it.


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## el_Diablo (May 15, 2003)

are they going to make a field goal in the fourth?

oops.


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## DariusMiles23 (Aug 29, 2003)

I have to agree with Hap. Bonzi would be taking up more shots and missing about 75% of them. Now is the time to decide; Tear the team down and keep the Young Guns or Keep losing like dis every game. I am really starting to lose confidence in the Blazers and think we should follow in PHX's foot steps.


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## hasoos (Jan 3, 2003)

*Losing with him, losing without him*

Comon man they were losing with him on the team (He was not happy to be here since he felt screwed by Portland with his current contract) and they are losing without him. To me, no difference. The only thing it does mean to me is that Bonzi was not trying hard while he was here, which means he is a pile o crap. If you don't like the contract, don't sign it. But don't take it out on the team and the fans.

I think the play on the team tonight tends to make me think that yes, a deal is in the air, because there is a lot of uncertainty in the way the team is playing. Will one happen? I am not sure. Somtimes a feeling like this can hang over the team untilt he trade deadline passes.


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## Storyteller (Dec 31, 2002)

Quote of the night:

(After Damon's shot bounces off the front of the rim) "As Stoudamire is short..."


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## Todd (Oct 8, 2003)

Fire Cheeks!! Bonzi would not have helped at all. Cheeks is the problem, and until he is fired, we will suck!!


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## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

Wow. That shot of Rasheed sitting on the bench was amazing. I've never seen such a look of apathy in my life.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Hap</b>!
> 
> yah, because god knows Bonzi would be the difference maker in this game...


He might be. He won a heck of a lot of games for us, and he certainly would have done a better job on Sprewell than McInnis did.



> when are you going to get off the bonzi riff?


When you build a time machine and go assassinate Nash before he can make the trade 



> He wasn't making the difference you keep suggesting he was.


Ah. He wasn't, huh? So the team just HAPPENS to have gone in the tank right after they traded him?

And they just happened to have won 99 games the last two years relying on Bonzi as their second-best player? (Or was it in SPITE of Bonzi?)

And now Memphis is already hailing him as one of THEIR best players and their go-to guy?

Sheesh. Guess he wasn't a difference maker after all.



> Bottom line, the team is being out played, out smarted, and out hustled.


Bottom line, the team just doesn't have many good players. Another bottom line, the coach can't compensate for that.

They're not playing well tonight, but it's not like tonight's some sort of unique occurence.



> bonzi was one of the biggest problems when it came to those.


I disagree. And I think that the team's records with and without him suggest otherwise.

But even if you're right, and the team was dumber and lazier (somehow) with Wells, I would argue it didn't matter: they were still BETTER. Because Bonzi could make massive offensive contributions and could actually guard people and play in the passing lanes, unlike all of the current guards on the Blazers' current roster (with the possible exception of DA, who's not 100%).



> I mean, for gods aske, Mark Madsen is outplaying the blazers by his own.


The game is over. It was over in the first quarter. That Mark Madsen is still hustling at the end of the game and Zach Randolph or Rasheed Wallace is not doesn't really matter.

Ed O.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

a Vranes sighting!


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## barfo (Jan 2, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Fork</b>!
> Wow. That shot of Rasheed sitting on the bench was amazing. I've never seen such a look of apathy in my life.


No offense, but that isn't apathy. 

barfo


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## el_Diablo (May 15, 2003)

vranes and stepania on court at the same time. the world is ending...


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

thank god thats over. when's our next loss..er..I mean, game?


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## ThatBlazerGuy (May 1, 2003)

Man, screw Dale start Varnes. No way did he foul Ebi on that play, he stuffed him.

Then he got a block on Madsen but Madsen dunked on him the next play....


Honestly, we might as well try and develop him instead of staying with Old Man Dale.


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## Blazerfan024 (Aug 15, 2003)

Im sorry guys but NASh is going to destroy this team IMO with his mediocre trades to bring Character in and forgets about talent. I have a feeling and hope this doesnt come true but I think NASh will make us a Clipper Team before he is fired. If he doesnt and pulls off a blockbuster I will be the first to apologize for not having faith but he has given me no reason to. 

I just dont want to be stuck in the lottery for ever like the clippers, I know this team needs some changes or additions but there are better ways to do it then Sheed for KVH or Mutumbo. 


Hopefully he will pull something logical or shut his mouth because him Talking trade every where he goes is also bringing the team down, I mean why play hard for a team that keeps talking bout trading u.


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## SheedSoNasty (Dec 31, 2002)

*Blazers manhandled*

What I saw tonight was sick. This organization has a lot of work to do, I'm sure this is no big surprise to hear this, but, my goodness! We had Mark Madsen trying to show off in the closing moments, Wolves laughing from the bench at how their scrubs were running the table against ours, Goldwire shooting a three with less than a full shotclock left in the game... The Blazers got disprespected and basically took it bending over backwards. As hard as it may be, I still love the franchise but watching this game really hit me.


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## NateBishop3 (Jul 22, 2003)

The Blazers will NEVER be the Clips. Half of LA's problem was that Sterling wouldn't pay for his stars. Paul WILL pay for his stars.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Blazerfan024</b>!
> Im sorry guys but NASh is going to destroy this team IMO with his mediocre trades to bring Character in and forgets about talent. I have a feeling and hope this doesnt come true but I think NASh will make us a Clipper Team before he is fired. If he doesnt and pulls off a blockbuster I will be the first to apologize for not having faith but he has given me no reason to.
> 
> I just dont want to be stuck in the lottery for ever like the clippers, I know this team needs some changes or additions but there are better ways to do it then Sheed for KVH or Mutumbo.
> ...



you say this after 1 trade?

We got 7 million to come off the cap, + a draft pick.

Face it, Bonzi was not doing what he needed to do, to stay in Portland.


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## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>ThatBlazerGuy</b>!
> Honestly, we might as well try and develop him instead of staying with Old Man Dale.


Bad idea.

Did you see the way he was running? I saw a damn hot dog wrapper blow past him while he was 'running' up the court. He was stiffer than the Tinman.


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## hasoos (Jan 3, 2003)

*I think its a little early*

To be making claims such as the Blazers will be the clipps. Comon the Clippers have almost a 30 year record of futility. How dare you say that about the Blazers? They are nowhere near that bad franchise wise. Sure we may be going through some rough years, but comon. Hitting the panick button are ye? If you are a fan of a team, you live through the good times and bad times together, and right now Portland is on a down swing. Ride it out, good times will come


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## dkap (May 13, 2003)

> Did you see the way he was running? I saw a damn hot dog wrapper blow past him while he was 'running' up the court. He was stiffer than the Tinman.


I didn't see the game and have never seen Vranes in action, but I told ya'll in his thread there's no way he can move those ridiculously long lower legs at more than a snail's pace...

Dan


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## ThatBlazerGuy (May 1, 2003)

Then lets make him a backup center for 10-15 minutes a game. I mean, he could easily get 2-3 blocks in that time, and even a single block can change the pace of the game.


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## Blazerfan024 (Aug 15, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hap</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I dont like bonzi PERIOD no where did i mention BONZI. I still think we could have got more for him but thats over with. Also u can get as excited as u want about 7 mil off the cap but it will bring nothing. Except more money into Pauls pocket.And the draft is a shoot and miss u either can come out with star or come out with nothing and that pick we got could be 20+ or 10 below. Also with all the rumors flying around which are RUMORS they all are garbage and if nash is even considering any of them especially with NEW York that would make my statement more than true the way he is taking team. 

U dont have to agree with my opinion but NASH IMO is going to go the wrong way with this team and I HOPE IM WRONG. 

Maybe its the losses getting to my head so if i sound like a jerk I apologize but I really dont think highly of NASH and has given me no reason to start now. I especially cant stand how he is always saying on Radio, TV that who is on trading block and blah blah. This is effecting our players and u have to know its a mental strain to constantly hear it.


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## Blazerfan024 (Aug 15, 2003)

*Re: I think its a little early*



> Originally posted by <b>hasoos</b>!
> To be making claims such as the Blazers will be the clipps. Comon the Clippers have almost a 30 year record of futility. How dare you say that about the Blazers? They are nowhere near that bad franchise wise. Sure we may be going through some rough years, but comon. Hitting the panick button are ye? If you are a fan of a team, you live through the good times and bad times together, and right now Portland is on a down swing. Ride it out, good times will come


No where did i say this FRANCHISE is the clips i said if nash pulls through with these rumored trades he will make us a clip team before he is fired. I LOVE THE BLAZERS I HATE SEEING THEM LOSE.

I ALSO HATE SEEING NASH would even consider a trade for Rasheed for KVH for character reasons. Nash brought down the NETS and wizards to didnt he? 

best thing to do just ignore me right now i am not very happy about our managment or coach and Especially the way the blazers played. Its ugly very ugly. When was the last time u saw the team like this??

GO BLAZERS!!!


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Blazerfan024</b>!
> I dont like bonzi PERIOD no where did i mention BONZI.


you said:

* Im sorry guys but NASh is going to destroy this team IMO with his mediocre trades to bring Character in and forgets about talent.*

well, what other trades have they made? They traded Bonzi, and *Bonzi* alone.



> I still think we could have got more for him but thats over with. Also u can get as excited as u want about 7 mil off the cap but it will bring nothing. Except more money into Pauls pocket.


having 7 million come off the cap is actually 14 million in a sense due to the lux tax. It might not put us under the cap (I don't know what the situation will be at the end of this season) but it does mean that they can use the MLE with a little more ease this off-season.


> And the draft is a shoot and miss u either can come out with star or come out with nothing and that pick we got could be 20+ or 10 below.


well in that case, we should never take a draft pick in a trade. It's a crap shoot.


> Also with all the rumors flying around which are RUMORS they all are garbage and if nash is even considering any of them especially with NEW York that would make my statement more than true the way he is taking team.


who said he was considering them? they're rumors out of a radio station, and more than likely have 0 reality in them. Just because you hear them on KFXX and some New York station, or Petey Vescey or Chad Ford (or some other rumor mongerer in print media) doesn't mean they are even remotely accurate. 

Plus, just because the rumor says we were thinking of taking KVH etc, doesn't mean the Blazers actually went "hm..how about you give me blah blah blah for Rasheed". It probably meant NY said "hey, we'll offer you blah blah blah for Rasheed" and the Blazers went "hm..let me *think* about that for a while, no."


> U dont have to agree with my opinion but NASH IMO is going to go the wrong way with this team and I HOPE IM WRONG.


he's made 1 freaking trade, settle down.


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## baler (Jul 16, 2003)

*Just wait a second....*

I would make the KVH + + + + in a heartbeat! Here's why:

1. KVH is a better all-around offensive player than Wallace. Pts, rebounds and assists. He is not a better defender. However, Wallace only plays defense about 50% of the time and is such a horrible person to be around a team, I will live with the downgrade in defense. Go ahead and edit me but Wallace is a complete *******!

2. Mutombo would give us a shotblocker! Something we desperately. He is one of the best help defenders this league has seen. Contract expires in two years.

3. Frank Williams. Once the man-love ends with Damon and Cheeks is fired, he will make a great defensive, pass first PG. He is 6'3" and a smart player. Until then, though, will probably never play.

4. Doleac - who cares. Contract expires.

5. sweetney - I like him. Tough player. Maybe further trade bait come draft time.

We won't get better than this! I am sick and tired of watching this complete WASTE of talent and his piss poor attitude.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

*Re: Just wait a second....*



> Originally posted by <b>baler</b>!
> 
> 1. KVH is a better all-around offensive player than Wallace. Pts, rebounds and assists.


PLEASE tell me you're joking. Rasheed Wallace has outscored KVH on a per-game basis each of the last three seasons. KVH has only shot a higher percentage from the field than Rasheed Wallace in his six full NBA seasons. 

KVH has not averaged more than 2.0 assists per game in any season of his career, and his career average is 1.7. Rasheed hasn't had an average lower than that since the 98-99 season.

Van Horn no post-up game and never commands double teams. He's averaging almost 3 TOs a game this season in spite of that... his career average for turnovers is .6 higher than Rasheed's.

To his credit, KVH is a better offensive rebounder. He shoots a slightly higher percentage from three point range. He's a better free throw shooter. I don't think those points are nearly enough to prove he's a better all-around offensive player than Rasheed.

Ed O.


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## ThatBlazerGuy (May 1, 2003)

I dont want KVH at the price of Sheed. 

I will tell you all this....other than Q, Outlaw, Sheed and Zach...i would trade anyone left on the roster for KVH. 

IMO Keith would be a great 3rd offensive option on a good defensive team. He seems to be a scapegoat for mediocre teams. NJ, Phili and now NY are blaming him for their failure. 



But, my ideal deal would be one that sends Wallace and Patterson out and nets us Ilgauskas, Frank Williams, Sweetney and a little something extra.....


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## barfo (Jan 2, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>ThatBlazerGuy</b>!
> He seems to be a scapegoat for mediocre teams.


In that case... let's do the trade, we need a (new) scapegoat.

KVH, it's all YOUR fault!

barfo


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## mook (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ThatBlazerGuy</b>!
> I will tell you all this....other than Q, Outlaw, Sheed and Zach...i would trade anyone left on the roster for KVH.
> 
> IMO Keith would be a great 3rd offensive option on a good defensive team. He seems to be a scapegoat for mediocre teams. NJ, Phili and now NY are blaming him for their failure.


we ARE a mediocre team. 

we ARE possibly the worst defensive team in the NBA. 

so how again does KVH solve our problems?


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## Trader Ed (Jun 17, 2002)

Sheed 8 points, NO free throws

Madsen 10 pts

:nonono:

Sheed still did good defensively..... we need to get him more involved in the offense


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Ed O</b>!
> Ah. He wasn't, huh? So the team just HAPPENS to have gone in the tank right after they traded him?


didn't memphis just come off of losing 7 straight games?

But they have the great savior Bonzi Wells...


> And they just happened to have won 99 games the last two years relying on Bonzi as their second-best player? (Or was it in SPITE of Bonzi?)


I think having Pippen and Sabonis (esp last year) was more to do with it.

How come this years team started off crappy WITH Bonzi?



> And now Memphis is already hailing him as one of THEIR best players and their go-to guy?


because they're trying to rationalize their trade to their fans. What are they going to say? "Hey, we traded for a guy who's inconsistent, and spits on players"?

it's called selling Ed. It's the same thing the Blazers will do once (or if) they trade Rasheed. Whoever they get, they'll try to sell him to us Blazer fans, so we don't feel like we got screwed. 

"I believe Keith Van Horn is one of the better SF's in the game. He can score against anyone. "

blah blah blah blah snooooore..


> Sheesh. Guess he wasn't a difference maker after all.


yah, a team already with more talent than us BEFORE the trade, and now they have more talent AFTER the trade..wow...he's surely the difference maker...


> Bottom line, the team just doesn't have many good players. Another bottom line, the coach can't compensate for that.


the team didn't have many good players *before* the trade. Now they have a good role player who's being miss-used, and a draft pick next year. It's not all about this year, where we weren't going to compete for the title (or a good playoff spot) with Bonzi.



> I disagree. And I think that the team's records with and without him suggest otherwise.


A teams record can be discieving too. Bonzi was, at times, a selfish player who would take shots out of the system. Or he'd do things against what the coach wanted. Or he'd take things personal, and try to take over games when he was struggling. When Bonzi was on, he was a great player. The other 65 games, he wasn't.



> But even if you're right, and the team was dumber and lazier (somehow) with Wells, I would argue it didn't matter: they were still BETTER. Because Bonzi could make massive offensive contributions and could actually guard people and play in the passing lanes, unlike all of the current guards on the Blazers' current roster (with the possible exception of DA, who's not 100%).


So was JR Rider. Bonzi could, but that doesn't mean he wasn't a bad teammate. He might have been a horrible influence on some of the guys, or just a pain in the ***. 


> The game is over. It was over in the first quarter. That Mark Madsen is still hustling at the end of the game and Zach Randolph or Rasheed Wallace is not doesn't really matter.


he was out hustling him in a manner that just bugs me, because that guy shouldn't even be in the stinking blinking league.

oy..


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## Paxil (Jan 1, 2003)

Amazing things about last nights game.

We had as many turnovers... as assists. 

Jeff McInnins... most of us figured out how to shoot a layup with the offhand in oh... by 6th grade at latest.

I can't understand why the blazers WALK around on offense.... or even just stop! And I don't mean in a triple threat pose... but in the... it will take me a few seconds to get moving again pose.

Other comments:

You can't just compare Rasheed's play on the court to VanHorns.. .or anyone elses... you have to factor in what a complete bonehead he is. We are lottery bound no matter what trades we make though.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Hap</b>!
> 
> didn't memphis just come off of losing 7 straight games?


Yes, although Wells missed one of the winnable games (against Seattle) with a concussion from taking a charge in the previous game.

In spite of those six losses, though, the Grizzlies are 8-8 with Bonzi Wells, just about as good as they were before Bonzi arrived (9-8) in spite of playing a brutal schedule.

Compare that to Portland. 5-11 since trading Bonzi. We've played a tough schedule, too, but it hasn't been THAT much tougher.



> I think having Pippen and Sabonis (esp last year) was more to do with it.


Sabas wasn't on the team two years ago, and they won 49 games.



> How come this years team started off crappy WITH Bonzi?


Compared to 5-11, they DIDN'T start off crappy.



> because they're trying to rationalize their trade to their fans. What are they going to say? "Hey, we traded for a guy who's inconsistent, and spits on players"?


There's NO reason for the Grizzlies to hype Bonzi up as much as they have been.

How many games have you seen Bonzi play on the Grizzlies, Hap? Maybe that's an indication of why you fail to understand what I'm saying: he's a difference maker. When Bonzi is on the court, the Grizzlies are MUCH better the majority of the time. If rawse or another Grizzlies fan is around, I'd guarantee you he'd agree with me.



> the team didn't have many good players *before* the trade. Now they have a good role player who's being miss-used, and a draft pick next year. It's not all about this year, where we weren't going to compete for the title (or a good playoff spot) with Bonzi.


Wesley Person is being mis-used? Hah. If so, he's been misused for most of his career. What you see is what you get with Wes: nice guy, one trick pony. Last night was the 6th time in 17 games with Portland that he's scored 3 points or fewer, in spite of playing double-digit minutes in every contest. He did it 7 times in 16 games with Memphis, so it's not like he's had any drop in consistency.

There's obviously value in the Memphis pick, but the odds of getting someone better than Bonzi is remain slim.



> A teams record can be discieving too. Bonzi was, at times, a selfish player who would take shots out of the system. Or he'd do things against what the coach wanted. Or he'd take things personal, and try to take over games when he was struggling. When Bonzi was on, he was a great player. The other 65 games, he wasn't.


That's myopic. EVERY player has ups and downs. Almost every good player occasionally tries to do too much and good scorers have streaks of selfishness.

Bonzi's not an MVP-level player, so expecting him to be great 82 games a year is not realistic. The production level he's been at the last few years is near all-star and it's possible he'll still end up there in the next couple of years.



> So was JR Rider. Bonzi could, but that doesn't mean he wasn't a bad teammate. He might have been a horrible influence on some of the guys, or just a pain in the ***.


So PLEASE explain why the Blazers suddenly stink with Bonzi gone. You say they stunk before he was traded, but the team was 10-7 before Bonzi and his new team beat them soundly... I don't know for sure whether it was Bonzi's talent or that the trade killed team morale, but the fact is that SOMETHING is now broken that wasn't broken before.

Ed O.


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## ABM (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Ed O</b>!
> 
> ...So PLEASE explain why the Blazers suddenly stink with Bonzi gone. You say they stunk before he was traded, but the team was 10-7 before Bonzi and his new team beat them soundly... I don't know for sure whether it was Bonzi's talent or that the trade killed team morale, but the fact is that SOMETHING is now broken that wasn't broken before.
> 
> Ed O.


My take is that _part_ of the reason for the slide is because, once Bonzi's trade became a _reality_, collectively, the remaining players began to consider if that (being traded) might happen to them, too. Therefore, in aggregate, I think the team focus has become reduced to a blur.

Since, realistically speaking, there is not a vast difference in talent between the middle-of-the-road teams, that, in and of itself, is enough to affect said drop-off.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Ed O</b>!
> Sabas wasn't on the team two years ago, and they won 49 games.


thus why I said (esp last year)


> Compared to 5-11, they DIDN'T start off crappy.


as important as Bonzi is, in your eyes, we did start off crappy.



> There's NO reason for the Grizzlies to hype Bonzi up as much as they have been.
> 
> How many games have you seen Bonzi play on the Grizzlies, Hap? Maybe that's an indication of why you fail to understand what I'm saying: he's a difference maker. When Bonzi is on the court, the Grizzlies are MUCH better the majority of the time. If rawse or another Grizzlies fan is around, I'd guarantee you he'd agree with me.


not saying he's not a difference maker on their team. he wasn't on ours.



> Wesley Person is being mis-used? Hah. If so, he's been misused for most of his career. What you see is what you get with Wes: nice guy, one trick pony. Last night was the 6th time in 17 games with Portland that he's scored 3 points or fewer, in spite of playing double-digit minutes in every contest. He did it 7 times in 16 games with Memphis, so it's not like he's had any drop in consistency.


They aren't taking advantage of his outside shooting. Whats the point of having him be on the court, if we don't specifically run plays for him? 

Bonzi also scored below his average a lot of the time last year too. 



> There's obviously value in the Memphis pick, but the odds of getting someone better than Bonzi is remain slim.


never know. The pick could be traded with ours for another one, or memphis could collapse (hey, we can't be the only ones) and get a decent pick.



> That's myopic. EVERY player has ups and downs. Almost every good player occasionally tries to do too much and good scorers have streaks of selfishness.


Bonzi had more than a few inconsistent games. 


> Bonzi's not an MVP-level player, so expecting him to be great 82 games a year is not realistic.


yah, but it would have been nice if he was consistent for more games than he was. 


> The production level he's been at the last few years is near all-star and it's possible he'll still end up there in the next couple of years.


or he'll stay at what he is now. inconsistent player who when he's on, is great. He (sadly, imho) wouldn't be that player in Portland.


> So PLEASE explain why the Blazers suddenly stink with Bonzi gone. You say they stunk before he was traded, but the team was 10-7 before Bonzi and his new team beat them soundly... I don't know for sure whether it was Bonzi's talent or that the trade killed team morale, but the fact is that SOMETHING is now broken that wasn't broken before.


the team is depleted now, and even with bonzi it would be. Face it, the team isn't that good, even if it still had Bonzi. 

Look, you know as well as anyone, I was (and am) a fan of Bonzi. But he had worn out his welcome here. He has the talent, but sometimes other things are more important.


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## baler (Jul 16, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Trader Bob</b>!
> 
> Sheed still did good defensively..... we need to get him more involved in the offense


You're kidding, right? How many times did he allow guys to lay the ball up with no attempt to disrupt the shot? Atleast 5! Don't give me the excuse "he had three fouls". If he is such a good defender then he wouldn't of picked up three weak fouls. Last night was another game in which Wallace just decided he wasn't interested in trying. He lackluster effort makes me want to puke. It must just be the fact he is feeling so exploited. The only one who exploited him was Garnett: 26p/14r/2a/3s. Wallace: 8p/2r/0a/1s. 

I think you all are calling him a good defender based on one or two plays a game. A good defender is one who battles every moment their in the game and provides leadership. He does neither.

Trade him: ASAP!


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## DariusMiles23 (Aug 29, 2003)

POLL TIME!!


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## Blazerfan024 (Aug 15, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>baler</b>!
> 
> 
> You're kidding, right? How many times did he allow guys to lay the ball up with no attempt to disrupt the shot? Atleast 5! Don't give me the excuse "he had three fouls". If he is such a good defender then he wouldn't of picked up three weak fouls. Last night was another game in which Wallace just decided he wasn't interested in trying. He lackluster effort makes me want to puke. It must just be the fact he is feeling so exploited. The only one who exploited him was Garnett: 26p/14r/2a/3s. Wallace: 8p/2r/0a/1s.
> ...




There is a couple different theings between Garnett and Rasheed.

1. Garnett isnt in every paper and online forum and Radio and tv about how NASh is talking about him being traded and that every one on the team is being considered for trade. (Talk about Emotional Rollercoaster)

2. Garnett has players around him that play good ball unlike Rasheed who has no one to count on other than ZACH which has been very streaky lately. 

I think alot of u saying TRADE RASHEED now is going to regret it when the time comes cause NASH will bring in crap for him. Then we will all get to feel how it feels to lose for a couple seasons then we will see how u feel about trading Rasheed or bonzi etc..


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