# Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal;George exercizes no trade clause



## Peja Vu (Jun 9, 2002)

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3244102



> Sources told ESPN.com that talks between the Mavericks and Nets, which had seemingly stalled, grew serious after the teams played Sunday night in New Jersey and have moved them to the brink of completing the NBA's third blockbuster deal of the month.
> 
> Although sources say that the teams are still sorting out final details, this deal was described as "imminent" by one source close to the process after negotiations moved to an advanced stage Tuesday night. The proposed swap -- salvaged from talks of a three-way trade with Portland that developed and fizzled quickly two weeks ago -- would require Dallas to send 24-year-old point guard Devin Harris, veteran swingman Jerry Stackhouse, the expiring contracts of center DeSegana Diop and swingman Devean George and another player such as guard Maurice Ager to New Jersey for Kidd and possibly veteran guard Darrell Armstrong. It's believed that Dallas would also send New Jersey cash and future draft considerations.
> 
> Dallas has been widely considered the most likely winner of the Kidd trade sweepstakes, despite the repeated attempts of Mavericks owner Mark Cuban to publicly dismiss the idea of parting with multiple regulars for Kidd. Cuban told several New York-based reporters Sunday before New Jersey beat Dallas that a deal for All-Star floor leader would severely weaken his roster.


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## Vuchato (Jan 14, 2006)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

I really hope it finally happens, but I still don't believe it.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

That's definitely going to be interesting if it happens. I really though Cuban wanted to keep Harris, and it's funny that he said it won't happen because he'd have to trade half the team...but it seems like they just might go through with it after all. This is just going to add to the craziness that is the Western Conference, and make the Eastern Conference that much worse.


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## Ballscientist (Nov 11, 2002)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

4 owners are willing/can afford to pay Kidd at the moment.

Nix, Lakers, Mavs and Blazers


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## afobisme (Apr 29, 2006)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

i doubt lakers are willing to pay for kidd, especially when we would have to sign him to an extension.

if the mavs do this, they will get old, and quick at that. in 2 years phoenix and mavs will become nothings again. those two teams will have spent their future on 2 aging/declining stars.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

It's funny he's breaking the bank for Kidd, when he could have just re-signed Nash a few years ago.

I doubt this happens. I think Kidd will finish the season with the Nets. I know the Mavs want to make their blockbuster deal to compete with the Suns and Lakers. But they really don't get a ton better by getting Kidd. It doesn't address a need like the Lakers and suns trades did. They are still basically the same team. Except now you can cheat off of their point guard on defense.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

This trade would be a gift and a curse. We run an iso-oriented offense, and bringing Kidd in would probably change that up a little bit for the better. Having Dirk and Josh off the ball rather than trying to facilitate probably makes more sense. I wonder how much adjustment time would occur with this, and whether we run into the playoffs with enough forward momentum.

Defensively though, they'd eat him for breakfast out west. Parker, Paul, AI, Williams, Nash, Davis. All guys he'd conceviably face, all guys that love to penetrate and can score. I have a bad feeling he'd end up making one of these guards the story of a round honestly. 

In the end, it comes down to whether the improvement we'd experience offensively would offset what we lose defensively, seeing as how Harris is likely to go. And this is from a team perspective, not comparing the two directly. Conventional wisdom says you never trade for offense and sacrifice defense, but Kidd could be the exception to that. I'm on the fence. It depends on what all we give up for him.

I'd feel much more comfortable going after Bibby or Artest. And I disagree that we should feel obligated to make a major move. The Lakers have improved, the new Suns have yet to be seen, but neither is substantially better than us.


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## King Sancho Fantastic (Jul 19, 2005)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

ESPN reporting that the deal is imminent.


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## PriceIsWright (Oct 11, 2006)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



futuristxen said:


> It's funny he's breaking the bank for Kidd, when he could have just re-signed Nash a few years ago.
> 
> I doubt this happens. I think Kidd will finish the season with the Nets. I know the Mavs want to make their blockbuster deal to compete with the Suns and Lakers. But they really don't get a ton better by getting Kidd. It doesn't address a need like the Lakers and suns trades did. They are still basically the same team. Except now you can cheat off of their point guard on defense.


This is a crap post on so many levels. To say the tandem of Devin Harris and Jason terry is anywhere close to Jason Kidd completely and utterly wipes any respect you enjoy as a poster.


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## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

:thumbdown: if this goes down.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

I think this could help Dallas short-term, as in the rest of this season, but nothing more than that...I don't see them being a Championship team getting Kidd and giving up that many players.


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## afobisme (Apr 29, 2006)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

why wouldn't dallas trade other expirings like juwan howard and greg buckner instead of diop? diop is more useful.


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## bronx43 (Dec 9, 2005)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



PriceIsWright said:


> This is a crap post on so many levels. To say the tandem of Devin Harris and Jason terry is anywhere close to Jason Kidd completely and utterly wipes any respect you enjoy as a poster.


Obviously Jason Kidd >> Devin Harris. But keep in mind also that they are giving up their depth by including Jerry Stackhouse and Diop in the trade. Futurixten is simply saying that the Mavs have more important issues in their lineup than the Harris/Terry backcourt... specifically, a low post presence.


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## King Sancho Fantastic (Jul 19, 2005)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

This really hurts their depth.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

http://www.sportsline.com/nba

Look at the very top of the site...it's reported that it's a done deal.


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## afobisme (Apr 29, 2006)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



bronx43 said:


> Obviously Jason Kidd >> Devin Harris. But keep in mind also that they are giving up their depth by including Jerry Stackhouse and Diop in the trade. Futurixten is simply saying that the Mavs have more important issues in their lineup than the Harris/Terry backcourt... specifically, a low post presence.


well, dallas may have a pre-agreed buyout of stackhouse's contract, and then stack would sign with the mavs after that(so the link says). 

the mavs do use diop and all, but i just checked his stats. he plays 17 minutes per game, not a huge hit (they have juwan howard to back up)


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

LeBron James can't be happy about this.


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



Basel57 said:


> LeBron James can't be happy about this.


I'm sure he's disappointed. But the whole sports world knows we don't have very many assets to appeal to the Nets in a trade, so I think he understands. I'm sure he's probably a little bummed though. Hell, I am a little bit, even though I knew it was almost impossible.


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## afobisme (Apr 29, 2006)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

nets will have a lot of cap space this summer. they could just trade kidd and hope to rebuild.

what if they get elton brand? if they trade kidd for expirings + devin hariss, they should be at about 44-45 million in cap space, which is more than enough to sign a big name like elton brand..

so then their team would look like this: 

devin harris
vince carter
richard jefferson
elton brand
some center


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



afobisme said:


> nets will have a lot of cap space this summer. they could just trade kidd and hope to rebuild.
> 
> what if they get elton brand? if they trade kidd for expirings + devin hariss, they should be at about 44-45 million in cap space, which is more than enough to sign a big name like elton brand..
> 
> ...


Krstic?


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## apelman42 (Apr 8, 2005)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

The Milwaukee boy is headed to Jersey!

I'm the newest Nets fan!

Dallas was stupid to do this...Devean George, D Harris, Diop, Stack and TWO FUTURE FIRST ROUNDERS for an expiring point guard?

LMAO @ Cuban...dumb dumb trade.

Devin will thrive in Jersey...he was almost as good as D Wade in college...he was just overshadowed by Dirk, Jet, and Josh.


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

If this is true, seems like the Mavs are just making a move for the sake of making one.


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## afobisme (Apr 29, 2006)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

hm, based on my calculations, they should be at 46.4 or so.. that's enough to sign a big name. man, new jersey should take this deal.

but they will have only 8 signed players, which means they're gonna have to sign a lot of decent small contracts (like boston)

mavs would have

jason kidd
jason terry
howard
dirk 
dampier

and hopefully stack is bought out and they re-sign him. that's not too bad looking, but not that great either.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

Good deal for the Nets. Got a 24 year old point guard who will feast on the East and is only getting better for a washed up 34 year old point guard that won't be able to guard any of the points in the West (and all six of them are going to be in the playoffs). I hope they play Phoenix in Round 1, because a Jason Kidd-led team has never beaten Shaq.

I wonder if this is going to get Avery fired, because Kidd has torpedoed so many other coaches, it wouldn't surprise me.


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## eddymac (Jun 23, 2005)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

I love this trade we get a good young pg in Harris as a building block. Plus we get expiring contracts from Stackhouse and a good big man in Diop. We could still be competive in the east with VC, RJ, Harris, Krstic, Swat, Boone, Swift, Stackhouse, Nachbar. :worthy: Thank God.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

Wait, two future first too? Damn, that's awful.


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## afobisme (Apr 29, 2006)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

marion for shaq

now harris for jason kidd

that means in a few years when shaq/jason retire and marion/harris are still around, the parity between the east will begin to close... by a milimeter.


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## Vuchato (Jan 14, 2006)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

if we get Stack I believe we'll still be over the cap. Carter, Jefferson, Williamses, Stack, Harris, Boone are still on the books. and if we wanna keep Krstic that'd cost even more.


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## apelman42 (Apr 8, 2005)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



HKF said:


> Wait, two future first too? Damn, that's awful.


When they told the Nets GM that they were getting two future first rounders, I think that's what caused him to say, "where's the dotted line?".


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## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



HKF said:


> Wait, two future first too? Damn, that's awful.


That's an understatement. Mortgaging at its finest.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



PriceIsWright said:


> This is a crap post on so many levels. To say the tandem of Devin Harris and Jason terry is anywhere close to Jason Kidd completely and utterly wipes any respect you enjoy as a poster.


Eesh. It's a good thing I didn't say that then.

I was talking more about the Maverick needs on their roster. As someone else has pointed out. Sure Kidd is better than Terry and Harris. But not to the degree that it makes a huge huge difference.

It would be like if the Cavs traded Gooden for Jermaine O'Neal. Sure O'Neal is(was?) better than Gooden, but the Cavs problem isn't their frontcourt.

A better trade would be Gooden for Tinsley. Even though Tinsley may not be as good as O'Neal, he serves a need more.

I think the Mavs could have used those same assets to acquire more depth in the front court.

Suns just got Shaq. Lakers have Bynum and Gasol. So what does Dallas do? They trade for a point guard. Go figure. They should have pursued a smaller deal for a big man who they could use on Bynum.


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## McGillicutty (Jan 29, 2008)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

That's a lot to trade away, but a core of Nowitzki, Kidd, Howard, and Terry is tough.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

Dallas Mavericks

G - Jason Kidd/Jason Terry/JJ Barea
G - Trenton Hassell/Eddie Jones
F - Josh Howard
F - Dirk Nowitzki/Brandon Bass/Juwan Howard
C - Erick Dampier/Malik Allen

Does that team really look like a title contender? Not to me. 

New Jersey Nets

G - Devin Harris/Marcus Williams/Darrell Armstrong
G - Vince Carter/Jerry Stackhouse/Maurice Ager
F - Richard Jefferson/Bostjan Nachbar/Antoine Wright
F - Sean Williams/Stromile Swift
C - Josh Boone/DeSagana Diop (expiring)/Nenad Krstic, Jamaal Magloire (expiring)

Waived: Devean George and most likely someone else.

The Nets have a crowd of players but there must be another trade coming to get rid of some of these guys. Maybe they could get an actual decent big with all their expirings.


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## essbee (Oct 30, 2006)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



Basel57 said:


> I think this could help Dallas short-term, as in the rest of this season, but nothing more than that...I don't see them being a Championship team getting Kidd and giving up that many players.


yes what will they do without the elite contributions of Desagna Diop? come on now.


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## afobisme (Apr 29, 2006)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



Vuchato said:


> if we get Stack I believe we'll still be over the cap. Carter, Jefferson, Williamses, Stack, Harris, Boone are still on the books. and if we wanna keep Krstic that'd cost even more.


stack is an expiring. kristic is signed through 08-09 with a qualifying offer. if you're getting all expirings + devin harris, that means...

jason kidd's salary of 21,372,000 in 08-09 minus devin harris' salary of $7,800,000 in 08-09 = 13.572 million that new jersey is saving. with kidd, new jersey is paying 59,969,560 in 08-09... so basically, with the trade, this is what new jersey is paying to the 8 players they have on the payroll for the year 2008-2009: 

59,969,560 - 13,752,000 = 46.2 million


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## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



essbee said:


> yes what will they do without the elite contributions of Desagna Diop? come on now.


Diop is the only other reliable post defender other than Dampier. Since he can't play 48 minutes the interior D is going to suffer unless you expect Dirk or Bass to provide the post presence.


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## ElMarroAfamado (Nov 1, 2005)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

the mavericks are stupid if they do this, jason kidd is ok but **** hes no steve nash ......JASON KIDD IS NOT WORTH IT ......


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## Vuchato (Jan 14, 2006)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

I think Stack has a couple years after this left on his deal, but I could be wrong. It's what is said on the ESPN TM and I've seen it elsewhere too. And I think that Krstic still has to be re-seigned, but I could be wrong on that as well.

And supposedly in a "separate" deal (I'm assuming just to make $$ work) Antoine Wright is headed to Dallas, and a second rounder is headed back to NJ.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



HKF said:


> Dallas Mavericks
> 
> G - Jason Kidd/Jason Terry/JJ Barea
> G - Trenton Hassell/Eddie Jones
> ...


Two things: 1) Eddie Jones is still playing?
2) Yeah there's some issues with the Maverick's front court. Though really it all will come down to how they play off of Kidd. I suppose he does have weapons there to use, moreso than he had in New Jersey. I think what will make or break this trade is Dirk and Kidd's chemistry. And it will be interesting to see if Kidd can do better than Nash did with Dirk. 

And I bet Vince Carter is getting moved now.


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## essbee (Oct 30, 2006)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



croco said:


> Diop is the only other reliable post defender other than Dampier. Since he can't play 48 minutes the interior D is going to suffer unless you expect Dirk or Bass to provide the post presence.


If your two "reliable" post defenders are Dampier and Diop you can go ahead and make a trade. Diop still makes a ton of mistakes especially on help defense anyway, partly due to his bad footwork, partly due to the fact that he has a very low basketball IQ and always has.


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## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



futuristxen said:


> Two things: 1) Eddie Jones is still playing?
> 2) Yeah there's some issues with the Maverick's front court. Though really it all will come down to how they play off of Kidd. I suppose he does have weapons there to use, moreso than he had in New Jersey. I think what will make or break this trade is Dirk and Kidd's chemistry. And it will be interesting to see if Kidd can do better than Nash did with Dirk.
> 
> And I bet Vince Carter is getting moved now.


Eddie Jones has started the majority of the games for Dallas.


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## eddymac (Jun 23, 2005)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

ESPN.com is now reprting it.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3244102


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## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



essbee said:


> *If your two "reliable" post defenders are Dampier and Diop you can go ahead and make a trade.* Diop still makes a ton of mistakes especially on help defense anyway, partly due to his bad footwork, partly due to the fact that he has a very low basketball IQ and always has.


I don't understand the first sentence.


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## essbee (Oct 30, 2006)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



croco said:


> I don't understand the first sentence.


It means if those are your two reliable post defenders you don't have anything valuable enough to worry about preserving.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



croco said:


> Eddie Jones has started the majority of the games for Dallas.


Do these Dall-as Mav-ericks of which you speak, play on the television?
Who is this Cu-ban?


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

Two future firsts? Is that right? Mother of god... no wonder the Cavs were even less of a player in this than I thought.


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## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



essbee said:


> It means if those are your two reliable post defenders you don't have anything valuable enough to worry about preserving.


Dampier is a good post defender, he won't block many shots, but he doesn't make mistakes and due to his strength he can hold his own against anyone.


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## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



futuristxen said:


> Do these Dall-as Mav-ericks of which you speak, play on the television?
> Who is this Cu-ban?


Are you being sarcastic or am I just missing the point entirely ?


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## essbee (Oct 30, 2006)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



croco said:


> Dampier is a good post defender, he won't block many shots, but he doesn't make mistakes and due to his strength he can hold his own against anyone.


He's a mediocre post defender with good strength. He's a bad help defender.

Diop has been SINGLED OUT by Avery for his mistakes in defending the interior. I just don't know what in the world you're talking about.



> "We had a 20-point lead and they [Bass and Diop] allowed 10 or 12 points in the paint in a three-minute stretch. So until we can get them to defend the paint better when they get in the game – and rebound and bring energy, which they are supposed to do – until we can get them to do that, until we can get some consistency, we're going to have to keep those guys with a short rotation."


link

AGAIN, if these are your two best interior defenders, you have nothing worth holding onto.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

This is awful. Two firsts and a good point guard for a guy that doesn't even take you up a tier. 

I wish we could've just gotten Artest.


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## OneBadLT123 (Oct 4, 2005)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

Wow, what the hell is Dallas doing? They just gave up almost ALL their depth. The Depth they are known for having...

I just think this is just too much to give for a team that has done pretty damn well the last few years. Boston I understand because they were at the bottom, but Dallas to get one player + garbage for half of their team?

Yuck


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## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



essbee said:


> He's a mediocre post defender with good strength. He's a bad help defender.
> 
> Diop has been SINGLED OUT by Avery for his mistakes in defending the interior. I just don't know what in the world you're talking about.
> 
> ...


Diop hasn't been good this year, but he is still a better post defender than Dirk or Bass. 

I am not going to argue with you about that, we have stated our opinions and there is too much of a gap that it would be worth taking this any further.


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## eddymac (Jun 23, 2005)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

Rod Thorn is great he waited for the right deal and struck at the right time. Unlike the Grizz who gave away Pau.


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## f22egl (Jun 3, 2004)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

Well this just shows that Memphis really got ripped off by the Lakers because New Jersey got a lot more for Kidd than Memphis did for Gasol.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

This isn't a _good_ deal for Kidd, but considering it's the best/only thing they could do, whatever. I'd want a little more than Harris, an aged Swingman, and two late 20s picks for a top 5 PG, 35 or not. Teams will overpay if they think they can win a title, case in point what we just did, plus the Suns.


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## reHEATed (Jun 29, 2003)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

Nets got the much better end of this deal

Harris, Ager, Diop and 2 future first rounders

what a steal for the aging Kidd.


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## DuMa (Dec 25, 2004)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

LOL at the Mavs. never gonna get out of the first round now.


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## reHEATed (Jun 29, 2003)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



Dre™ said:


> This isn't a _good_ deal for Kidd, but considering it's the best/only thing they could do, whatever. I'd want a little more than Harris, an aged Swingman, and two late 20s picks for a top 5 PG, 35 or not. Teams will overpay if they think they can win a title, case in point what we just did, plus the Suns.


I think the Nets got much more back for Kidd than the Heat did for shaq


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## bronx43 (Dec 9, 2005)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



wadeshaqeddie said:


> I think the Nets got much more back for Kidd than the Heat did for shaq


I think it depends on how they use those two first round picks, and if they decide to actually keep Stackhouse.


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



Dre™ said:


> This isn't a _good_ deal for Kidd, but considering it's the best/only thing they could do, whatever. I'd want a little more than Harris, an aged Swingman, and two late 20s picks for a top 5 PG, 35 or not. Teams will overpay if they think they can win a title, case in point what we just did, plus the Suns.


You think the Nets didn't get enough from Dallas?


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## reHEATed (Jun 29, 2003)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

so I just read that Stackhouse is probably waiting the 30 days needed to go back to the Mavs when he gets cut from the Nets (and it sounds like when rather than if)


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

What, is he going to take the vet min for Dallas? How are they going to be able to sign him? Do they have part of an exception left?


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## SoCalfan21 (Jul 19, 2004)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

Did the Nets make out on this deal or what? Devin Harris...Draft picks and got instant offense off the bench in Stack. 


The Mavericks will regret giving up their only other bigman other than Erick Dampier. There whole bench is shot right now.


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## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



Brandname said:


> What, is he going to take the vet min for Dallas? How are they going to be able to sign him? Do they have part of an exception left?


Yeah, Cuban said that he likes to save his midlevel exception to use on players that get bought out during the season rather than 'overpay for guys desperate to get signed' during the summer. That's why he convinced Shaq to try and force a buyout so that Shaq could join Dallas.


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## edwardcyh (Dec 13, 2005)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



SoCalfan21 said:


> Did the Nets make out on this deal or what? Devin Harris...Draft picks and got instant offense off the bench in Stack.
> 
> 
> The Mavericks will regret giving up their only other bigman other than Erick Dampier. There whole bench is shot right now.


Stack will probably spend 30 days healing his nagging injury and rejoin DAL.

DAL has Brandon Bass as a backup 5.

Still, DAL doesn't have enough players to play games as of right now. :lol:


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

It's less about what the Heat got for Shaq than what they gave away. 

But per what they got, they got an all-star in his prime. Not a pick. Not a prospect, a proven all-star. That's what any team ultimately wants in a trade, to come out with an all-star.

Now as far as my main point, the Heat got out from under a horrible contract, they have more options now in Free agency, and by extension Wade will be more optimistic about the outcome in Miami. It's not really about face value with that deal.



> You think the Nets didn't get enough from Dallas?


Like I said, it's the best they could've done now, but I probably would've wanted something other than two low 1st rounders. 

It depends on who the Nets draft with those picks, or whether they trade up with them though. If they draft some average players, it's essentially Devin Harris for Jason Kidd, which isn't a great deal. They'll need a little luck for me to say this was a good deal in general. Relative to his market, it was the only deal available.


----------



## eddymac (Jun 23, 2005)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

How is this not good for the Nets? We get a good young PG in Harris that we can use a building block. Then we get expiring contracts from Diop, George and Ager, plus two first round picks. 

Plus we now have cap space to sign Krstic to a longer term deal.

This season

C- Josh Boone, Jamaal Magloire, Diop
PF- Nenad krstic, Sean Williams, Stromile Swift
SF- Richard Jefferson, Bostjan Nachbar, Devean George
SG- Vince Carter, Maurice Ager
PG- Devin Harris, Marcus Williams, Darrell Armstrong.




Plus Magloire, Diop, George, Ager and Armstrong all comes off the book in the off season.


----------



## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



adam said:


> Yeah, Cuban said that he likes to save his midlevel exception to use on players that get bought out during the season rather than 'overpay for guys desperate to get signed' during the summer. That's why he convinced Shaq to try and force a buyout so that Shaq could join Dallas.


Oh ok, now that you mention that I do remember hearing him say that. Makes sense I guess. Why does New Jersey buy him out now instead of after the season? They're still in the playoff hunt, and unless the salary is really that huge of a deal for them they might as well give it a shot. I guess I don't really get it. Stackhouse is a quality player.


----------



## eddymac (Jun 23, 2005)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

I guess cutting Stackhouse was probably apart of the agreement that Cuban and Thorn made.


----------



## Eternal (Sep 7, 2005)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

This is a bad deal for the Mavericks. Their losing their depth and getting older fast.

Nets will look good after the deal. Their getting younger, and getting more depth.


----------



## t1no (Jul 10, 2005)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

Because it's possible that buying out Stackhouse is part of the deal.


----------



## Jizzy (Aug 24, 2005)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

good deal.


----------



## afobisme (Apr 29, 2006)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

realgm's link to cbsports says it's agreed upon.


----------



## Jizzy (Aug 24, 2005)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

best part is, we get rid of malik and wright, losing those two scrubs is great.

hopefully dallas gets a low seed


----------



## afobisme (Apr 29, 2006)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

jason kidd looks like a lighter skinned montell williams.


----------



## Ballscientist (Nov 11, 2002)

*Break news: Kidd to Mavs*

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/50844/20080213/sources_kidd_traded_to_dallas/


----------



## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: Break news: Kidd to Mavs*

Are you kidding ? You can't provide a link without posting a rumor.


----------



## IbizaXL (Sep 21, 2005)

*Re: Break news: Kidd to Mavs*

West GMs are having a field day knowing how incompetent most East GMs are.


----------



## Ruff Draft (Nov 21, 2004)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

How soon will Harris be back? I wanna watch him get that much more PT.


----------



## Jizzy (Aug 24, 2005)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

now vince


----------



## essbee (Oct 30, 2006)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



Jizzy said:


> best part is, we get rid of malik and wright, losing those two scrubs is great.
> 
> hopefully dallas gets a low seed


And get to add Diop to Stromile Swift to form the greatest frontcourt in NBA history.


----------



## Jizzy (Aug 24, 2005)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



essbee said:


> And get to add Diop to Stromile Swift to form the greatest frontcourt in NBA history.


swift, diop > malik, wright


----------



## Jizzy (Aug 24, 2005)

*Re: Break news: Kidd to Mavs*



Gio305 said:


> West GMs are having a field day knowing how incompetent most East GMs are.


why is that? we lose a 35% shooter who didnt want to be here and was complaining nonstop. the dallas deal was the best offered


----------



## bluecro (Oct 13, 2006)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



Jizzy said:


> now vince


The Vince for Jermaine O'Neal deal is just about dead. I am very happy about that I cannot believe Rod Thorn would even consider trading VC for O'Neal.


----------



## Aurelino (Jul 25, 2003)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

Antoine Wright for a second-rounder is a separate trade agreed upon. He isn't quite as effective defending smaller quicker PGs as Harris but he is a terrific defender who can guard the 1,2 and 3 spot.


----------



## essbee (Oct 30, 2006)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



Jizzy said:


> swift, diop > malik, wright


There's a difference? Because I don't know if you've watched them but Swift and Diop both suck.


----------



## bronx43 (Dec 9, 2005)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

"The Lakers must be falling over with laughter by now." - Hollinger

So true.


----------



## Jizzy (Aug 24, 2005)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



essbee said:


> There's a difference? Because I don't know if you've watched them but Swift and Diop both suck.


swift played good yesterday, who cares, both are irrelevant


----------



## Pain5155 (May 28, 2006)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

wat happens at the all-star game? does kidd play?


----------



## HeaVINsent15 (Jul 13, 2007)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



futuristxen said:


> It's funny he's breaking the bank for Kidd, when he could have just re-signed Nash a few years ago.
> 
> I doubt this happens. I think Kidd will finish the season with the Nets. I know the Mavs want to make their blockbuster deal to compete with the Suns and Lakers. But they really don't get a ton better by getting Kidd. It doesn't address a need like the Lakers and suns trades did. They are still basically the same team. Except now you can cheat off of their point guard on defense.


Aww too bad. I told you the Cavs didnt have the goods for Kidd. I knew it would be the Mavs or less likely the Nuggets and I knew they would have to give up Harris. Larry Hughes and Daniel Gibson was never gonna get it done.


----------



## MLKG (Aug 25, 2003)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

Don't know what Dallas is thinking. I'm definately not convinced Jason Kidd makes them a better team, and they give up a ton.

Jerry Stackhouse will be a free agent. If over those 30 days he sees them struggling whose to say he won't pick a different team? I'm sure Boston will come knocking. So will Detroit, where he also has history. He could have a hard time turning them down.


----------



## HeaVINsent15 (Jul 13, 2007)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



HKF said:


> Dallas Mavericks
> 
> G - Jason Kidd/Jason Terry/JJ Barea
> G - Trenton Hassell/Eddie Jones
> ...


Dont forget Antione is also going for a 2nd round pick!


----------



## Case (Dec 17, 2007)

*Re: Break news: Kidd to Mavs*



Gio305 said:


> West GMs are having a field day knowing how incompetent most East GMs are.


The Nets got a young, up-and-coming PG for an aging (albeit Top 5) point who didn't want to be there anymore.

The Heat got a young All-Star for an aging center who didn't want to be there anymore.

The Celtics got Ray Allen for Jeff Green and Wally Szczgkljsdasdfack. Oh yeah, and that Kevin Garnett guy...for Al Jefferson and a bunch of scrubs.

Where's the incompetence?


----------



## HeaVINsent15 (Jul 13, 2007)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



Dre™ said:


> This isn't a _good_ deal for Kidd, but considering it's the best/only thing they could do, whatever. I'd want a little more than Harris, an aged Swingman, and two late 20s picks for a top 5 PG, 35 or not. Teams will overpay if they think they can win a title, case in point what we just did, plus the Suns.


LOL are you srious? What do you expect for a 34 year old pg who declining as we speak. This is ideal for the Nets. They get loads of cap space, a future pg, and draft picks. What more do you want? What have other stars like Pau and Iverson traded for?


----------



## Pain5155 (May 28, 2006)

*Re: Break news: Kidd to Mavs*

the roster dallas has on the floor isnt gonna stop the lakers, who are the team to beat with Bynum, Pau, Odom, and KOBE on the floor. To get to the finals you have to go through LA, and phoenix and the mavs have lost all key defensive players, and got an aging point guard who wont be able to guard CP3, Nash, and D-WIll. The mavs have been strugglign the past few games, its only gonna get worse.


----------



## MeirToTheWise (Nov 9, 2005)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

Man the West just keeps getting crazier every week... You can't even try to predict what's going to happen in the standings or the playoffs until we see how all these teams pan out with all their new players in the upcoming weeks... Friggin insane, lol ^_^


----------



## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

Have to like this deal if your the Nets:
Harris much younger, has a higher PER (2 points higher then Kidd), a higher +/-, and just a slightly lower adjusted +/- then Kidd. Harris had the second best +/- on Dallas behind Dirk.


----------



## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

As a Hornets fan I like this deal.I don't think the Mavs are one bit better and they'll start declining quickly.Personally I don't believe I would have traded Harris straight up for Kidd,but then I am not really desperate and I don't think Kidd puts Dallas over the top by even the wildest stretch of the imagination.Harris is ten years younger,plays better defense and his production isn't all that much worse than Kidd's.


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



HeaVINsent15 said:


> LOL are you srious? What do you expect for a 34 year old pg who declining as we speak. This is ideal for the Nets. They get loads of cap space, a future pg, and draft picks. What more do you want? What have other stars like Pau and Iverson traded for?


Lol @ as we speak...his muscles are detiorating by the second huh. 

Anyway, like I said, just because other stars haven't been traded for much don't mean doesn't make this one right. In general, I would've asked for something other than Harris and low 20s picks. And I don't know how 8M in expirings is a load of cap space, considering you'll still be over the cap and'll have to pay Harris in two years.


----------



## Ballscientist (Nov 11, 2002)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

Bad trade! Mavs benches are too thin.


----------



## bronx43 (Dec 9, 2005)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



Dre™;5287135 said:


> Lol @ as we speak...his muscles are detiorating by the second huh.
> 
> Anyway, like I said, just because other stars haven't been traded for much don't mean doesn't make this one right. In general, I would've asked for something other than Harris and low 20s picks. And I don't know how 8M in expirings is a load of cap space, considering you'll still be over the cap and'll have to pay Harris in two years.


You're alone in your opinion, Dre. Just curious, who would you be satisfied with for Kidd? Another "star" whose name (as opposed to game) carries the weight?


----------



## afobisme (Apr 29, 2006)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



Ballscientist said:


> Bad trade! Mavs benches are too thin.


no ur fat


----------



## essbee (Oct 30, 2006)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

So basically PER came into play like 2 years ago and people are using this as an argument for every single topic now? Goddamn.


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## HeaVINsent15 (Jul 13, 2007)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



Dre™;5287135 said:


> Lol @ as we speak...his muscles are detiorating by the second huh.
> 
> Anyway, like I said, just because other stars haven't been traded for much don't mean doesn't make this one right. In general, I would've asked for something other than Harris and low 20s picks. And I don't know how 8M in expirings is a load of cap space, considering you'll still be over the cap and'll have to pay Harris in two years.


Well they pretty much are. The only reason hes been getting all these meaningless tps are becase of Jason collins and the front court. after Boone came in and started getting 10 rebounds a night his tps magiclly started happening less often. Kidd's offense has gotten worse. Hes shooting the worst of his career. He's cpnstantly getting outplayed by pgs and playing subpar defense. Hes nowhere near the defensive beast he used to be. And it does make it right. This is what stars are supposed to be traded for. Kidd is 34 for crying out loud. We got a 24 year old for a 34 year old. We got tons of cap space. We got another young guard. We got picks and now this team can go somewhere. Paying Harris is worth it since hes already had a higher PER than Kidd. Bottom line Dallas gives up 2 key bech players. Its pg and 2 picks it might need. All they get back is Malik Allen who sucks and can make a few open jumpshots, Kidd who is not getting any better just worse, and Antione Wright (self-explanitory). Whether or not you think stars are currently getting fair value is irrelevent becuse this is what stars get traded for. Based on what stars are currently getting traded for this is a good trade. The Mavs are never going to beat the Lakers or Spurs or even Hornets after this trade. They have 2 years of chasing a title before they lose everything and are forced to start over.


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## Jizzy (Aug 24, 2005)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



Dre™;5287135 said:


> Lol @ as we speak...his muscles are detiorating by the second huh.
> 
> Anyway, like I said, just because other stars haven't been traded for much don't mean doesn't make this one right. In general, I would've asked for something other than Harris and low 20s picks. And I don't know how 8M in expirings is a load of cap space, considering you'll still be over the cap and'll have to pay Harris in two years.


dre, the mavs offer was the best one. a 34 year old PG, who is still great but is on the decline is not in high demand and waiting until the offseason wouldnt have helped since he would have been older.

if dallas doesnt get there acts together they could be a 8 seed..or even lower. houston who has the 8th seed now is only 4 games behind them


----------



## Seed (Jun 29, 2005)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

can the mavs trade cuban instead?


----------



## bronx43 (Dec 9, 2005)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



essbee said:


> So basically PER came into play like 2 years ago and people are using this as an argument for every single topic now? Goddamn.


How long an idea has been in use isn't an indicator of its effectiveness. The PER, though not without faults, gives people a number that combines all the other statistics, allowing for greater insight into a player's contributions.


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



bronx43 said:


> You're alone in your opinion, Dre.


Nothing new.



> Just curious, who would you be satisfied with for Kidd? Another "star" whose name (as opposed to game) carries the weight?


And I don't know what the Nets could've gotten for Kidd this offseason. There obviously wasn't that much of a market for him. But my opinion wasn't based on market value, I was saying in general the disparity in value changing from one team to another was too unbalanced for Nets fans to be particularly happy. I can understand saying "well, this is the best we can do, and Harris is good", but acting like you made out like thieves isn't being honest.

People are so accustomed to inept GMs being taken advantage of nowadays. That their standards have changed. Mine hasn't. The Nets got what they could for Kidd, but the difference in value is still pretty wide.

People are overrating Harris first off. At best, he's a starter, not a star, on a good team. He's quick, he can defend, but he's not the best shooter or ball distributor. He's not a point guard I'd be comfortable running my team, you're going to have to have another main ballhandler or a really balanced system to be effective with him. He's on the level of a Jamaal Tinsley or Kirk Hinrich IMO. 

The 8 million is nice, but they're still over the cap, and ultimately that's just going to turn into money on Harris' contract.

And two late 20s picks? Yes, there's a _chance_ they could get a steal, but a small chance. People get overly hyped at the prospect of potential that they think every 1st rounder has value, when in fact they don't. There are very few mid to low 20 (what the Mavs will conceviably be) picks that pan out to anything.


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## HeaVINsent15 (Jul 13, 2007)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

Maybe the Nets can draw in Lebron in a couple of years now:biggrin:. With Jay-Z anything is possible.


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

It's not going to be about Jay-Z, it's going to be endorsements doubling and tripling.


----------



## HeaVINsent15 (Jul 13, 2007)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

LOL its now on wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devin_Harris.


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## HeaVINsent15 (Jul 13, 2007)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



Dre™ said:


> It's not going to be about Jay-Z, it's going to be endorsements doubling and tripling.


Yeah and NY is choc full of em.


----------



## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

Is Kidd still gonna shoot 36% from the floor? Why do people keep saying Jason Kidd is a top 5 PG this year? 

The following players have been better than him this year and they play in the West: Steve Nash, Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Baron Davis, Allen Iverson.

Good luck Kidd. LOL


----------



## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



essbee said:


> So basically PER came into play like 2 years ago and people are using this as an argument for every single topic now? Goddamn.


It has been around for years if you took High School level math.


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

I'm not saying this year, I'm saying in general. I don't make decisions in half year intervals, sorry.


----------



## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

Good trade for the Mavs in the short-term, but now they're even thinner up front without Diop and Harris was a baller in his own right, especially defensively. He could at least stay with Parker, while this version of Kidd definitely can't. Though Parker does struggle with strong PGs, like he did with Marbury a few years back. We'll see. Getting Stackhouse back definitely softens the blow to their depth, but they have to deal with the fact that teams like the Spurs, Lakers, and Rockets are going to absolutely dominate them down low. And if Kidd can't hit 40% of his shots, it's going to be tough to beat big teams.


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## HeaVINsent15 (Jul 13, 2007)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



EHL said:


> Good trade for the Mavs in the short-term, but now they're even thinner up front without Diop and Harris was a baller in his own right, especially defensively. He could at least stay with Parker, while this version of Kidd definitely can't. Though Parker does struggle with strong PGs, like he did with Marbury a few years back. We'll see. Getting Stackhouse back definitely softens the blow to their depth, but they have to deal with the fact that teams like the Spurs, Lakers, and Rockets are going to absolutely dominate them down low. And if Kidd can't hit 40% of his shots, it's going to be tough to beat big teams.


I doubt they'll get Stackhouse back. Even if NJ buys him out SA, Phoenix, and Cleveland will have more money.


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



EHL said:


> Good trade for the Mavs in the short-term, but now they're even thinner up front without Diop and Harris was a baller in his own right, especially defensively. He could at least stay with Parker, while this version of Kidd definitely can't. Though Parker does struggle with strong PGs, like he did with Marbury a few years back. We'll see. Getting Stackhouse back definitely softens the blow to their depth, but they have to deal with the fact that teams like the Spurs, Lakers, and Rockets are going to absolutely dominate them down low. And if Kidd can't hit 40% of his shots, it's going to be tough to beat big teams.


The thing is Kidd can't score as good as Marbury, his defenders aren't going to have to do much but play passing lanes, that just leaves them even fresher to cook him on offense. 

All I'll say is we better hope our play offsets the opposing PGs' 30 and 10 in whatever non Lakers series we play.


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

Stack's coming back to Dallas. AJ likes him and he likes being in Dallas.


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## LamarButler (Apr 16, 2005)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

I think Terry will guard most PG's and Kidd will guard the SG's. Kidd may have lost his quickness but he is still 6'4 and 200 lbs. Terry is better suited to guard PG's.


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

I'd rather see Howard on PGs than Terry, but even still Howard isn't quick enough to handle Parker Davis, AI and co.. Bottomline, we lost whatever advantage at point guard we would've had with Harris, and I don't like it.


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## DuMa (Dec 25, 2004)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

you think Lebron is pissed now that he didnt get Kidd? wait till he realizes Kidd aint playing with him on the East :lol:


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## edwardcyh (Dec 13, 2005)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



Dre™ said:


> Stack's coming back to Dallas. AJ likes him and he likes being in Dallas.


http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_y...RaBK8vLYF?slug=ap-kiddtrade&prov=ap&type=lgns

"I feel great. I get 30 days to rest, then I'll be right back," he said. "I ain't going nowhere."


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



edwardcyh said:


> http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_y...RaBK8vLYF?slug=ap-kiddtrade&prov=ap&type=lgns
> 
> "I feel great. I get 30 days to rest, then I'll be right back," he said. "I ain't going nowhere."


Giving him some time off isn't bad at all, get to keep him relatively fresh.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



DuMa said:


> you think Lebron is pissed now that he didnt get Kidd? wait till he realizes Kidd aint playing with him on the East :lol:


Hey at least he didn't go to another team in the East and make them better than the Cavs. Him going to Dallas probably won't ever have any impact on Lebron.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

And does this mean New Jersey is giving up on Marcus Williams?
Perhaps they want to trade him for Shannon Brown??!


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## compsciguy78 (Dec 16, 2002)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

Jason Kidd for Devin Harris and Diop...

STackhouse comes back after 30 days...


Thats a helluva trade for Dallas. 


How does this make them not better?

Kidd will make Dirk and Howards job much easier.


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## Mateo (Sep 23, 2006)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

Ouch, what a huge panic move by Dallas. They trade not 1 but 3 key members of their finals team for what? 35 year old Jason Kidd shooting 36% from the field. Is it really that important to marginally improve the Mavs' defensive rebounding that they are giving up so much for such a minor improvement?


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## edwardcyh (Dec 13, 2005)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



compsciguy78 said:


> Jason Kidd for Devin Harris and Diop...
> 
> STackhouse comes back after 30 days...
> 
> ...


Precisely. The trade is good for NOW.


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## edwardcyh (Dec 13, 2005)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



Mateo said:


> Ouch, what a huge panic move by Dallas. They trade not 1 but 3 key members of their finals team for what? 35 year old Jason Kidd shooting 36% from the field. Is it really that important to marginally improve the Mavs' defensive rebounding that they are giving up so much for such a minor improvement?


A panic move? Maybe... 

...but it still tops that Shaq trade on paper. We'll know who made the better deal in couple months.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

I love how it's a panic move after we've been in talks about Kidd for two years.


----------



## Mateo (Sep 23, 2006)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

By the way, has anyone pointed out the Nash angle here? Cuban passed on Nash's reasonable contract because he didn't want to pay him when he got old. Then he turns around and trades 3 of his core for Kidd, who's significantly worse than Nash, is already old, and makes way more than Nash is ever going to make. Hypocritical much, Mr. Cuban?


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## Mateo (Sep 23, 2006)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



Dre™ said:


> I love how it's a panic move after we've been in talks about Kidd for two years.


Because last week Cuban said the deal wasn't happening because the only way it could happen was if they gave up half their team, and they weren't doing that. Except now they did.


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## roux (Jun 20, 2006)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

This is pretty simple to me, if Dallas does not win a title in the next 2 years this trade will be a disaster. At this moment in time Kidd is a better player then Devin Harris but at completely different things. Kidd brings in solid passing and decision making and good rebounding for a point guard, they are trading away one of the quickest players in the NBA who was also their best defensive player and a key guy in the West as he is one of the few guys in the league that really can D up on Nash and Parker, also Devin at this point in his career is a better pure scorer and is outstanding off the dribble and taking it to the rim. As I previously said if Dallas doesnt cash in with kidd in the next 2 years they are going to have a washed up 36 year old PG on their hands and New Jersey will have a very good PG thats still in his mid 20's. I also like that NJ will stay competetive this season, they traded the best PG in the East and brought back a PG that i believe is now one of the top 3 pg's in the east (behind Billups and maybe Andre Miller). Great deal for NJ, get back to me after the playoffs Dallas.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



Mateo said:


> By the way, has anyone pointed out the Nash angle here? Cuban passed on Nash's reasonable contract because he didn't want to pay him when he got old. Then he turns around and trades 3 of his core for Kidd, who's significantly worse than Nash, is already old, and makes way more than Nash is ever going to make. Hypocritical much, Mr. Cuban?


Yeah, what kind of person makes mistakes and tries to rectify them?


----------



## Jizzy (Aug 24, 2005)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

marc cuban is also going to resign kidd to a one year 20 million dollar deal, BTW. kidd would not be traded without an extension coming his way.


----------



## Mateo (Sep 23, 2006)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



Dre™ said:


> Yeah, what kind of person makes mistakes and tries to rectify them?


He's never admitted it was a mistake. If he'd come out and say "we didn't realize Nash was this good", that'd be one thing, but he still insists that the only reason he passed on the deal was the last couple of years of the contract Nash would be old. Nash will probably age very well, by the way.


----------



## HB (May 1, 2004)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

Desperation move by the Mavs. You not only give up 5 players, you are also sending the Nets picks too. Genius move by Thorn.

I like Kidd, but he is going to the West. What point guard can he guard out there? Really I don't see how the Mavs are any different from their previous team, I could even argue they are worse.


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

Considering the Mavs went at it for 2-3 years with the same team for the most part, I'm not as upset at them trying to shake things up. It's just that they didn't just shake things up, they spilled half the salt out of the shaker. We went from deep to relatively shallow in one move.


----------



## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



Dre™ said:


> The thing is Kidd can't score as good as Marbury, his defenders aren't going to have to do much but play passing lanes, that just leaves them even fresher to cook him on offense.
> 
> All I'll say is we better hope our play offsets the opposing PGs' 30 and 10 in whatever non Lakers series we play.


Agreed on all counts. Also, as I mentioned before, he absolutely is going to have to hit better than 37% of his shots. 40%-42% ideally, because everyone and their mother is just going to sag off on him.


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



Mateo said:


> He's never admitted it was a mistake. If he'd come out and say "we didn't realize Nash was this good", that'd be one thing, but he still insists that the only reason he passed on the deal was the last couple of years of the contract Nash would be old. Nash will probably age very well, by the way.


I don't remember many quotes by him regarding that.

And I think trading for Kidd is tantamount to him realizing he needs a great PG, therefore an admission without actual admission.


----------



## LamarButler (Apr 16, 2005)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

This is a great deal for the Mavericks

People saying Kidd is too old, you're wrong. Too old would be him not being able to produce anymore. He's still averaging close to a triple double. He's still a top 5 PG in the league (AI plays SG). Youth shouldn't be considered when Dirk is in his prime and the Mavericks are relevant and can contend for a championship.

Kidd gives them an actual playmaker. They can move away from that iso ball now. They have more size in their backcourt now. They improve their rebounding a lot. I mean, he averages 8 rebounds a game. That is going to improve them drastically.

Stackhouse is coming back.

So essentially its Kidd for Harris, Diop and George

Losing Diop hurts, but George doesn't. The Mavs have a surplus of wings.


----------



## unluckyseventeen (Feb 5, 2006)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

This is a good trade... for any Western Conference team with seeds 1-10, except Dallas. I'll look forward to not having to worry about Dallas or Phoenix in the next couple of years - their entire rosters will be retired!


----------



## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

Ehh, I was never a big believer in Kidd, and now especially that he is well out of his prime. Bad deal for the Mavericks. They closed their window quite a bit with this trade without really even improving their team. Avery said that after last year they wouldn't panic and change a bunch of things, but this deal wreaks of panic and urgency to me.


----------



## HB (May 1, 2004)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



LamarButler said:


> This is a great deal for the Mavericks
> 
> People saying Kidd is too old, you're wrong. Too old would be him not being able to produce anymore. He's still averaging close to a triple double. He's still a top 5 PG in the league (AI plays SG). Youth shouldn't be considered when Dirk is in his prime and the Mavericks are relevant and can contend for a championship.
> 
> ...


Devin Harris actually gets to the FT line. Jason Kidd- No
Devin Harris can actually hit shots with consistency. Jason Kidd- No
Dirk and Howard were already established scorers, he probably makes things better for them and will help rebounding wise, although with a team of Howard, Dampier and Dirk thats unecessary.

Jason Kidd will be absolutely lit up by the points in the West. He could get away with that in the East, this time no. I feel bad for the Mavs, the media rained on them and they caved. Cuban is a smart guy, but this looks stupid

I could be wrong though, I might be jumping to conclusions. They do have 3 legit stars, but I swear I have seen that story before

Oh by the way the Mavs depth just took a big hit


----------



## afobisme (Apr 29, 2006)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

eh legit 3 stars? jason kidd is over the hill, with a fg% in the 30's. josh howard is pretty good, but he's no star. and dirk isn't playing as inspired this year.


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



HB said:


> Devin Harris actually gets to the FT line. Jason Kidd- No
> Devin Harris can actually hit shots with consistency. Jason Kidd- No
> Dirk and Howard were already established scorers, he probably makes things better for them and will help rebounding wise, although with a team of Howard, Dampier and Dirk thats unecessary.
> 
> ...


Devin isn't really a consistent shooter. Still better than Kidd though.


----------



## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

I will also find it funny to see Nets fans happily pointing out all of Kidd's shortcomings, despite the utter denial they've been in about him for the past couple years.


----------



## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

Btw, I don't think people quite appreciate how good Harris was for them. He was a legit 2-way guard that sparked them in ways that Kidd isn't capable of, like as a slasher, finisher, scorer. Now, while Kidd certainly brings a playmaking ability that Harris can't touch, keep in the mind that Mavs are a slow, iso-centered offensive team, contrary to Kidd's tendency to want the ball moved around, so the adjustment period will be interesting. 

Granted, I think Kidd still has a good 2-3 prime years left, and years after that because you never lose your bball IQ. Thing is, the Mavs as constructed were ranked 13th in overall defensive efficiency with Harris (who they are 4-4 without this season), so while Kidd improves their 2nd ranked offense, in the end they needed more consistent defense to contend. And while Kidd can still D up, he can't match Harris' footspeed. Harris himself is clearly one of the best (if not the best) PG defenders in the L. With the lose of Diop to boot, they got more porous on the perimeter and on the interior. Kidd will have his work cut out for him, that's for sure.


----------



## t1no (Jul 10, 2005)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



Dre™ said:


> Devin isn't really a consistent shooter. Still better than Kidd though.


And he doesn't get to the FT line consistently.


----------



## HB (May 1, 2004)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



Dre™ said:


> Devin isn't really a consistent shooter. Still better than Kidd though.


I doubt any Nets fan will be complaining about that


----------



## edwardcyh (Dec 13, 2005)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



HB said:


> Desperation move by the Mavs. You not only give up 5 players, you are also sending the Nets picks too. Genius move by Thorn.
> 
> I like Kidd, but he is going to the West. What point guard can he guard out there? Really I don't see how the Mavs are any different from their previous team, I could even argue they are worse.


Dallas hasn't had any good drafts since Avery Johnson took over. Just look at Moe Ager and Nick Fazekas... I'd rather see them spent in a trade than to see them going to waste. On the other hand, AJ is quite good at developing under-appreciated talents (Brandon Bass and Gana Diop), so he'll likely continue to tap into other teams "junk" and find gems.

Also, Stack will be bought out and coming back to Dallas, so it's essentially Harris+George+Diop+Ager for Kidd.

I don't think AJ looks to Kidd to be a great defender. Kidd is more or less looked upon as someone to "shake things up" in Dallas.

We'll see...


----------



## Jizzy (Aug 24, 2005)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



Sir Patchwork said:


> I will also find it funny to see Nets fans happily pointing out all of Kidd's shortcomings, despite the utter denial they've been in about him for the past couple years.




thats why most of us wanted him gone this year?


----------



## HB (May 1, 2004)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



Sir Patchwork said:


> I will also find it funny to see Nets fans happily pointing out all of Kidd's shortcomings, despite the utter denial they've been in about him for the past couple years.


I have been constantly harping about his 'shortcomings for a while now' although I admit it fell on deaf ears. He is a demi-god in Nets land, absolutely no faults


----------



## Mateo (Sep 23, 2006)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



LamarButler said:


> This is a great deal for the Mavericks
> 
> People saying Kidd is too old, you're wrong. Too old would be him not being able to produce anymore. He's still averaging close to a triple double. He's still a top 5 PG in the league (AI plays SG). Youth shouldn't be considered when Dirk is in his prime and the Mavericks are relevant and can contend for a championship.


Triple double = irrelevant. He shouldn't be getting 10 points if it takes him 15 shots to do it. Give me Paul, Williams, Nash, Davis, Parker, Billups, and Calderon before I think about taking Kidd.


----------



## HB (May 1, 2004)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



t1no said:


> And he doesn't get to the FT line consistently.


Well he is averaging 5Ftpg as compared to Kidd barely getting two


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



HB said:


> I doubt any Nets fan will be complaining about that


Not when isn't as good a playmaker as Kidd. Trust me, once the honeymoon is over you're going to want to lock him in a gym to practice.


----------



## t1no (Jul 10, 2005)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



HB said:


> Well he is averaging 5Ftpg as compared to Kidd barely getting two


He's not a good shooter and he's one of the quickest PG in the league, but he's only averaging 5Ftpg and that's why i said he's inconsistent.


----------



## HB (May 1, 2004)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



t1no said:


> He's not a good shooter and he's one of the quickest PG in the league, but he's only averaging 5Ftpg and that's why i said he's inconsistent.


Well Vince, RJ and Nenad are still on the team. Its good enough, I think


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



HB said:


> Well he is averaging 5Ftpg as compared to Kidd barely getting two


That's like three trips to one. And considering neither is shooting 100%, that's negligible either way. 

I do agree, Harris is a better penetrator right now, but that's not the stat to point out, FG% is.


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



HB said:


> Well Vince, RJ and Nenad are still on the team. Its good enough, I think


Good enough for what?


----------



## HB (May 1, 2004)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



Dre™;5287558 said:


> Good enough for what?


His 5tfpg is good enough for the Nets offense. I didnt even know he was shooting 48% from the field. Wow!


----------



## edwardcyh (Dec 13, 2005)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



Mateo said:


> Triple double = irrelevant. He shouldn't be getting 10 points if it takes him 15 shots to do it. Give me *Paul, Williams, Nash, Davis, Parker, Billups, and Calderon* before I think about taking Kidd.


Are any of those player available RIGHT NOW for trade Harris+George+Diop+Ager?

Gee... why don't you go ahead and say "I'd take Michael Jordan, Larry Bird, etc..."

Whatever floats your boat.


----------



## Mateo (Sep 23, 2006)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



edwardcyh said:


> Are any of those player available RIGHT NOW for trade Harris+George+Diop+Ager?
> 
> Gee... why don't you go ahead and say "I'd take Michael Jordan, Larry Bird, etc..."
> 
> Whatever floats your boat.


You don't do a trade just the hell of it.


----------



## MLKG (Aug 25, 2003)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



Dre™ said:


> And two late 20s picks? Yes, there's a _chance_ they could get a steal, but a small chance. People get overly hyped at the prospect of potential that they think every 1st rounder has value, when in fact they don't. There are very few mid to low 20 (what the Mavs will conceviably be) picks that pan out to anything.


Here are some names that have come out of picks 25-30 over the last 5 years (not counting this years draft as it's early).

Jordan Farmar, Jason Maxiell, Linas Kleiza, David Lee, Kevin Martin, Tony Allen, Beno Udrih, Josh Howard, Leandro Barbosa, Carlos Delfino, Kendrick Perkins

Those guys are all either starting or making major contributions off the bench. That's 11 guys out 23 picks. So 50% of draft picks between picks 25-30 have turned into solid rotation players at a minimum (and legit stars at the high end).

Late first round picks are nothing to scoff at.


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



Mateo said:


> You don't do a trade just the hell of it.


Just because Mateo doesn't agree with it doesn't mean the Mavericks didn't think they were making a good move. It's hard for me to support, but considering all that entailed trading for Kidd IE giving up half your team, they didn't trade just to trade. 

But I guess it's easy, once the news hits, to act like it's NBA Live where the GMs just pick players off a menu and press a button.


----------



## edwardcyh (Dec 13, 2005)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



Mateo said:


> You don't do a trade just the hell of it.


*Avery Johnson PLAYED PG*. If Avery Johnson decides to swap out Harris for Kidd, you don't think he's sending a message? If Harris has such a bright future, would AJ let him go for a used-and-abused Kidd?

We are talking about a PG coach making a decision on PG position. I'd like to think he knows a thing or two.


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



MLKG said:


> Here are some names that have come out of picks 25-30 over the last 5 years (not counting this years draft as it's early).
> 
> Jordan Farmar, Jason Maxiell, Linas Kleiza, David Lee, Kevin Martin, Tony Allen, Beno Udrih, Josh Howard, Leandro Barbosa, Carlos Delfino, Kendrick Perkins
> 
> ...


They were all picked by teams with a good drafting record recently, save Dallas and Sac maybe. 

I don't trust those type of results from the Nets. What's the last good pick they made?


----------



## edwardcyh (Dec 13, 2005)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



MLKG said:


> Here are some names that have come out of picks 25-30 over the last 5 years (not counting this years draft as it's early).
> 
> Jordan Farmar, Jason Maxiell, Linas Kleiza, David Lee, Kevin Martin, Tony Allen, Beno Udrih, Josh Howard, Leandro Barbosa, Carlos Delfino, Kendrick Perkins


That's a great list to drool over, but DAL has shown that they can't draft worth anything under AJ.


----------



## Mateo (Sep 23, 2006)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



edwardcyh said:


> *Avery Johnson PLAYED PG*. If Avery Johnson decides to swap out Harris for Kidd, you don't think he's sending a message? If Harris has such a bright future, would AJ let him go for a used-and-abused Kidd?
> 
> We are talking about a PG coach making a decision on PG position. I'd like to think he knows a thing or two.


I never said Harris has a bright future. To me he's a weak starter or a strong backup. I'm not worried about the quality of players the Mavs gave up, I'm worried about the quantity (when you include the draft picks). It wasn't a Kidd for Harris swap.


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



Mateo said:


> I never said Harris has a bright future. To me he's a weak starter or a strong backup. I'm not worried about the quality of players the Mavs gave up, I'm worried about the quantity (when you include the draft picks). It wasn't a Kidd for Harris swap.


You're right, it was two mid to late 20s picks, Harris and Diop for Kidd.


----------



## t1no (Jul 10, 2005)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

What he said ^


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

I vote for Julius Hodge.


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## edwardcyh (Dec 13, 2005)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



Mateo said:


> I never said Harris has a bright future. To me he's a weak starter or a strong backup. I'm not worried about the quality of players the Mavs gave up, I'm worried about the quantity (when you include the draft picks). It wasn't a Kidd for Harris swap.


The other way to breakdown the trade:

Harris + 2 1st rounders + 1 2nd rounder => Kidd
Diop, George, Ager => Allen, Wright


----------



## SeaNet (Nov 18, 2004)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



essbee said:


> So basically PER came into play like 2 years ago and people are using this as an argument for every single topic now? Goddamn.


The value people place on that BS stat is truly unbelieveable.


----------



## Piolo_Pascual (Sep 13, 2006)

*How will jason kidds addition affect the mavericks?*

they will give up a lot of players for him. he's stil good but i think devin harris was a better guard for them. harris can score at will too.


are the mavs now a favorite to win the west? or are they pretender like the phoenix suns. maybe latrell move at best?


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

When you look at it beyond face value, it's not that much of an investment by us. We didn't have that much of a window to begin with with this team. If we had another dissapointment this season, I sure as hell would've wanted a change, so let's not act like this same roster was going to keep going at it for another 4 years.

Diop and Stackhouse weren't guarantees to come back next year. We would've had to pay or trade Harris after next year. We turned that uncertainty into an elite point guard, and the "sense of urgency" you all love, to win *now*. Let's not act like we were steamrolling through the year this season, a lot of people questioned our motivation. We just got a shot in the arm, that's for sure.


----------



## ElMarroAfamado (Nov 1, 2005)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

this mistake by the Mavs is great for the West


----------



## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

*Re: hwo will jason kidds addition affect the mavericks?*

Apparently Jason Kidd's first affect will be to prompt you to start another pointless thread. From that perspective I think he's had a negative impact.


----------



## HB (May 1, 2004)

*Re: How will jason kidds addition affect the mavericks?*

Merged with the ongoing Kidd thread. This can be answered in that thread too


----------



## hroz (Mar 4, 2006)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

Mavs dont look very strong in the post.

No idea how they intend to mark Yao......

Yao marked by Dampier and who????????????????
PS if they try to double Yao (Scola & Landry can both unleash)

Wonder if that means Carter & Jefferson are on the way??????????

I gotta say I would have loved to have got Kidd. PG is the one position I am really worried about at the Rockets.


----------



## Mateo (Sep 23, 2006)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



Dre™ said:


> You're right, it was two mid to late 20s picks, Harris and Diop for Kidd.


And Stackhouse. 3 rotation players (including 2 of the stronger defensive players) and 2 first round picks. That's quite a lot.


----------



## SeaNet (Nov 18, 2004)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

I think Dallas fans are going to be pleasantly surprised w/ how much Kidd has left in his tank. He doesn't address their frontcourt issues, but he's going to make them a better team, and he's a much better defender than people are giving him credit for at this point in his career (when he cares to be (which wasn't all that often w/ the Nets this year)). He's a prima donna extraordinaire, but even at 34, he's truly a special player (though PER believers will dispute this).


----------



## McGillicutty (Jan 29, 2008)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

Rumours have it Stackhouse AND Diop will be bought out.

Can anyone confirm/deny this?


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



Mateo said:


> And Stackhouse. 3 rotation players (including 2 of the stronger defensive players) and 2 first round picks. That's quite a lot.


Stackhouse is coming back to Dallas.


----------



## HB (May 1, 2004)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



Dre™ said:


> Stackhouse is coming back to Dallas.


Why?


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



McGillicutty said:


> Rumours have it Stackhouse AND Diop will be bought out.
> 
> Can anyone confirm/deny this?


If it's both, that changes a lot. Devin, George, Ager and two picks for Kidd? I'll take that anyday.


----------



## McGillicutty (Jan 29, 2008)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

The response to this trade is similar to the Shaq trade.

First people are disgusted. Then they're on the fence. Eventually they like it.


----------



## McGillicutty (Jan 29, 2008)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



Dre™;5287773 said:


> If it's both, that changes a lot. Devin, George, Ager and two picks for Kidd? I'll take that anyday.



There's something shady about trading away players knowing they'll be bought out and returned. The league should change that rule.


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## t1no (Jul 10, 2005)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

Stackhouse will be bought out for sure, i don't know about Diop though.


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## Ruff Draft (Nov 21, 2004)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



McGillicutty said:


> The response to this trade is similar to the Shaq trade.
> 
> First people are disgusted. Then they're on the fence. Eventually they like it.


I dunno about that. Dallas gave up a lot. 

Miami atleast got an All-Star, and Shaq is a whole different situation than Devin Harris.


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



HB said:


> Why?


What do you mean why? He'd rather play for a title contender than a mediocre team in the east, that's why :laugh:


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



Dre™;5287811 said:


> What do you mean why? *He'd rather play for a title contender *than a mediocre team in the east, that's why :laugh:


You mean the Mavs that lost in the first round last year to the 8th seed right? But anyways on a more serious note, how can he dicate where he wants to play? The Nets can do as they please with him

Where are you and t1no getting this information that he will be bought out for sure from?


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



McGillicutty said:


> There's something shady about trading away players knowing they'll be bought out and returned. The league should change that rule.


Not really. If the teams just wanted the player for their contract, it's a business decision. It's not like that's cheating anybody involved in the deal, they're both willing parties.


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## Weasel (Oct 18, 2003)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



HB said:


> You mean the Mavs that lost in the first round last year to the 8th seed right? But anyways on a more serious note, how can he dicate where he wants to play? The Nets can do as they please with him
> 
> Where are you and t1no getting this information that he will be bought out for sure from?


http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3244102



> "Now I think it's pretty much a done deal," Stackhouse told The Associated Press.
> 
> The Nets are expected to buy out Stackhouse's contract immediately, which could enable him to re-sign with Dallas if he waits 30 days.
> 
> "I feel great. I get 30 days to rest, then I'll be right back," Stackhouse said. "I ain't going nowhere."


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



HB said:


> You mean the Mavs that lost in the first round last year to the 8th seed right?


Yeah, the same 67 win team that met up with the ex-coach that knew their strengths and weaknesses, that team.



> But anyways on a more serious note, how can he dicate where he wants to play? The Nets can do as they please with him
> 
> Where are you and t1no getting this information that he will be bought out for sure from?


I'm going along with what people have been saying here, that supposedly the buyout was predetermined in the deal, I don't know where they're getting it from though, probably the radio and articles.

It's typical for a lot of teams to do that, trade the vet's contract and bring him back after he's been bought out.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

Kwame Brown is still playing for the Grizz, wasnt he supposedly going to be bought out? Its not like the Nets cant use Stackhouse, they have no backup 2 guards as is


----------



## afobisme (Apr 29, 2006)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

what was that team's weakness? undersized mediocre teams?


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## CbobbyB (Feb 16, 2006)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

dumb trade..it *might* work now, but it won't work later. Good luck.


----------



## Ghost (Jun 21, 2002)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

Much better deal for the Nets IMO.


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



HB said:


> Kwame Brown is still playing for the Grizz, wasnt he supposedly going to be bought out?


Umm, no, that wasn't a predetermined part of the deal like this instance, that was speculation from the radio I had proposed 2-3 days after the deal.


----------



## Seed (Jun 29, 2005)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



Dre™ said:


> Yeah, the same 67 win team that met up with the ex-coach that knew their strengths and weaknesses, that team.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Stackhouse already said it

At 4:36pm Wednesday comes the first official word -- and it's from "locker-room spokesman'' Jerry Stackhouse. "Now I think it's pretty much a done deal," Stackhouse told The Associated Press in Dallas this afternoon. Stackhouse also suggested that he is assuming a buyout from New Jersey that would free him to join any team (ahem: Dallas) after 30 days. How does Stack feel about the deal? "I feel great. I get 30 days to rest, then I'll be right back," he said. "I ain't going nowhere.''


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



afobisme said:


> what was that team's weakness? undersized mediocre teams?


No, stopping Dirk and having relentless guard play. Nice try though.


----------



## HB (May 1, 2004)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



Dre™ said:


> No, stopping Dirk and having relentless guard play. Nice try though.


I think the point is 'title contenders dont loose in the first round', do you know of any other title contenders that had the same problem?


----------



## McGillicutty (Jan 29, 2008)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



HB said:


> I think the point is 'title contenders dont loose in the first round', do you know of any other title contenders that had the same problem?


That same team also beat the Spurs and reached the finals, so it works both ways.


----------



## HB (May 1, 2004)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



McGillicutty said:


> That same team also beat the Spurs and reached the finals, so it works both ways.


Does that answer my question?


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



HB said:


> I think the point is 'title contenders dont loose in the first round', do you know of any other title contenders that had the same problem?


No, the point is that if you meet a team that matches up perfectly with you, you could lose, no matter what round it was in. People love the "1st round" thing for the tabloid effect, but the Warriors had had our number all last year. Smart people know how to get past headlines and get to the common sense.


----------



## HB (May 1, 2004)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



Dre™ said:


> No, the point is that if you meet a team that matches up perfectly with you, you could lose, no matter what round it was in. People love the "1st round" thing for the tabloid effect, but the Warriors had had our number all last year. Smart people know how to get past headlines and get to the common sense.


Does that mean the Spurs have no peers in the league?


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



HB said:


> Does that mean the Spurs have no peers in the league?


Yes. The fact that the Warriors match up well with the Mavs means the Spurs have no peers. Direct correlation.


----------



## WhoDaBest23 (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

I really like this deal for the Nets. Young PG, expirings, and picks. They're definitely going to miss Kidd, but you can't argue against what they got for him. For the Mavs, they just gave themselves about a 2 year window acquiring Kidd. Not saying that Dirk and Howard won't be able to contend in the future, but with Kidd right now, they're title contenders. Banking your future on Kidd is risky, but it could pay off.


----------



## HB (May 1, 2004)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



Dre™;5287906 said:


> Yes. The fact that the Warriors match up well with the Mavs means the Spurs have no peers. Direct correlation.


Well obviously they keep steamrolling to the title, so no team matches up well with them, going by your logic that is. Don't you consider the Spurs a title contender?


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



HB said:


> Well obviously they keep steamrolling to the title, so no team matches up well with them, going by your logic that is. Don't you consider the Spurs a title contender?


Yep, the fact that they've won so many back to back titles means no teams play them well. I agree.

Why are you trying to debate this? 

"If you meet a team that matchups well with you, you could be beat." 

From the Sesame Street basketball tenants, number 2 behind "scoring is an effective offensive tactic."


----------



## HB (May 1, 2004)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



Dre™ said:


> Yep, the fact that they've won so many back to back titles means no teams play them well. I agree.


What does back to backs have to do with anything? Every year they are expected to be in the finals


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



HB said:


> What does back to backs have to do with anything? Every year they are expected to be in the finals


They lost to the Lakers in a close series in '04 I think it was, they lost to the Mavericks in a close '06 series.

Not to mention that the Suns gave them a run for their money last year, so just what is your point? I never said title contenders aren't unbeatable. And, no, they aren't expected to be in the finals by the majority until their hot streak in March. Every year, the Mavs, Spurs and Suns have been looked at as equal contenders for the most part in the West.

I said the Mavs ran into a team that knew them well. You brought up something about the Spurs beating unbeatable or whatever. I still want to know what one has to do with the other, please spell that out for me?


----------



## HB (May 1, 2004)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



Dre™;5287943 said:


> They lost to the Lakers in a close series in '04 I think it was, they lost to the Mavericks in a close '06 series.
> Not to mention that the Suns gave them a run for their money last year, so just what is your point? I never said title contenders aren't unbeatable.
> 
> I said the Mavs ran into a team that knew them well. You brought up something about the Spurs beating unbeatable or whatever. I still want to know what one has to do with the other, please spell that out for me?


Simple 'Contenders' do NOT loose in the first round, especially coming off a 67 win season. I asked for examples, I didn't get any. Matchups etc are all just excuses, the Warriors were the underdogs in that series. The Spurs are perenial contenders, can you mention the last time they lost in the first round?


----------



## TexasG (Jun 4, 2002)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



Mateo said:


> Triple double = irrelevant. He shouldn't be getting 10 points if it takes him 15 shots to do it. Give me Paul, Williams, Nash, Davis, Parker, Billups, and Calderon before I think about taking Kidd.


I would take all of those guys over Devin Harris too. Not to mention that I would take Kidd over Devin Harris.

With that being said the Mavs still need a backup PG and now they also need a backup Center. On the bright side Brandon Bass will get more minutes but they deperately need another big man if they expect to last a series against the Lakers, Spurs, and Suns.


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



HB said:


> Simple 'Contenders' do NOT loose in the first round, especially coming off a 67 win season. I asked for examples, I didn't get any. Matchups etc are all just excuses, the Warriors were the underdogs in that series. The Spurs are perenial contenders, can you mention the last time they lost in the first round?


No, but I can tell you the last time they lost to a team that matched up well with them. I just did actually.

Last year was an abberation. The Warriors happened to be an 8th seed, they also happened to have the Mavs' number. If they were a 4th seed, and we had met them in the WCFs, would you feel any better? Would anything be different? No. The Mavericks were beaten by a team that knew how to play us, executed, and beat us. Hats off.

Can you tell me how many other people who've built great teams have faced that team in the first round, other than the Mavericks series? How many times a coach that's mentored another meets in the first round? No. 

Could you infer that a coach who built a great team and mentored a good coach could matchup, and conceviably come back and beat them, regardless of something as trivial as "round"? Yes, if you're not an idiot.

I'd like to give you an example, but I can't, because I don't remember it happening in modern NBA history. Sorry I couldn't appease you.

So just what were the Mavericks before the Warriors series. Were they not contenders? So after we lost, people decided to retroactively say, we shouldn't have been considered contenders? Coming off a finals trip and 67 wins?


----------



## afobisme (Apr 29, 2006)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



Dre™ said:


> No, but I can tell you the last time they lost to a team that matched up well with them. I just did actually.
> 
> Last year was an abberation. The Warriors happened to be an 8th seed, they also happened to have the Mavs' number. If they were a 4th seed, and we had met them in the WCFs, would you feel any better? Would anything be different? No. The Mavericks were beaten by a team that knew how to play us, executed, and beat us. Hats off.
> 
> ...


sounds like most of what youre saying is just excuses. and then a pre-emptive seed there, as in "hats off."

we haven't even spoke of the 0-2 choke job i nthe previous year.


----------



## HB (May 1, 2004)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



> No, but I can tell you the last time they lost to a team that matched up well with them. I just did actually.
> 
> Last year was an abberation. The Warriors happened to be an 8th seed, they also happened to have the Mavs' number. If they were a 4th seed, and we had met them in the WCFs, would you feel any better? Would anything be different? No. The Mavericks were beaten by a team that knew how to play us, executed, and beat us. Hats off.
> 
> ...



I could have sworn you were one of those who vehemently swore before the series started that there was no way in hell the Mavs could loose to the Warriors in that series. You and many others that is. I would expect 'contenders' to be able to adjust to any type of opposition, I mean what does it say of the Mavs if they can only beat certain teams but they can't get past others. If the Mavs face the Warriors again in this years playoffs, does that mean an automatic exit? Don't call them contenders if they can't beat any one. The Spurs can adjust to any team in the L. Nelson is just an excuse for the Mavs failure last year.

If it makes you feel any better the Mavs are regular season troopers, too bad titles aren't handed out during the season. They are 'faux' contenders


----------



## HB (May 1, 2004)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

Amazing! One of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3244818


----------



## SeaNet (Nov 18, 2004)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



HB said:


> Amazing! One of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard
> 
> http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3244818


LOL!!!! That's too much. You can't make this stuff up. How did he get a no trade clause anyway?


----------



## Jizzy (Aug 24, 2005)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

wtf, devean george you EDIT *** lookin *****, EDIT


----------



## Krstic All-Star (Mar 9, 2005)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

^ Un****ing believable.


----------



## HB (May 1, 2004)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

The NBA "Where Scrubs think they are stars"

:laugh:


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic (Jul 19, 2005)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

hahahahahaha!!!!! thats great!!!


----------



## Jizzy (Aug 24, 2005)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

the nets can just waive him and he can go back to dallas, who the f does he think he is


----------



## Krstic All-Star (Mar 9, 2005)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

He'll never work in this league again. Not that teams were beating down his door to begin with...


----------



## Balzac (Jun 29, 2006)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

1) How did he get a no-trade clause?

2) Devean George must love to be booed.


----------



## SlamJam (Nov 27, 2004)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

who the **** does george think he is?


----------



## McGillicutty (Jan 29, 2008)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

This is hilarious.


----------



## TriDoub5 (Jan 24, 2007)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

How the hell did he get that right!?


----------



## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

Devean George! Way to stick it to the man!

:laugh:

That's awesome!


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic (Jul 19, 2005)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

Devean George is the ****!!!


----------



## HB (May 1, 2004)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

Poor Cuban. Just imagine him getting the news. His face is probably as red as a beetroot right now


----------



## Mateo (Sep 23, 2006)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

haha, this is too freaking awesome.


----------



## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

Quite possibly the most unlikely and funniest NBA-related trade reversal I've ever seen. 

Btw, what the hell is it with the Nets and botched trades? First SAR and now Kidd? Amazing.


----------



## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



Krstic All Star said:


> He'll never work in this league again. Not that teams were beating down his door to begin with...


Yeah right. He is excercising a right the Mavs granted him and other teams are going to hate him for that?


----------



## GOD (Jun 22, 2003)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

If I were Devin, i would block the trade too. It's his right, he had the foresight to get this clause in his contract. 

Laughing my *** off. 


A deal will still happen, just have to be tweaked a little.


----------



## Krstic All-Star (Mar 9, 2005)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



Jamel Irief said:


> Yeah right. He is excercising a right the Mavs granted him and other teams are going to hate him for that?


As has been posted already, it wasn't anything the Mavs gave him, it's due to the nature of his contract. But the fact is that he wasn't in demand before this, and teams could well be even more leery of signing him after this. Only superstars get away with being prima donnas.


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



HB said:


> I could have sworn you were one of those who vehemently swore before the series started that there was no way in hell the Mavs could loose to the Warriors in that series. You and many others that is.


Of course I was. I didn't think the Mavericks would lose. That's my team. And like I said, I didn't expect a once in a modern era type of thing (Sonics-Nuggets) would happen twice either, but when it's cancelled out by another once in a modern era (teacher meets pupil and team he architected), who knows? 



> I would expect 'contenders' to be able to adjust to any type of opposition, I mean what does it say of the Mavs if they can only beat certain teams but they can't get past others.


So by your definition, contenders should _never_ lose. So would the finals loser this year be considered a loser because they couldn't get past the eventual winner? I don't think you know what a contender is. 

That's *one of the* teams that is contending for a title, *one of the* teams, not *the* team. Point being that there's more than one title contender in most every year, and a loss in a series doesn't mean they weren't a contender for the title, or else 82 games worth of talk during the regular would be pointless. 

If there's only one contender every year, why are we talking about how deep the west is with contenders?



> If the Mavs face the Warriors again in this years playoffs, does that mean an automatic exit? Don't call them contenders if they can't beat any one. The Spurs can adjust to any team in the L. Nelson is just an excuse for the Mavs failure last year.


Like I said, the Mavericks had won 67 games, they were capable of beating the Warriors, but they didn't. Contenders lose to bad matchups. The Spurs have lost to teams that've played them well before. The Mavericks They were a contender for the title that ran into a tough matchup and lost. Nothing more, nothing less. You're just so fascinated with the spectre of "1st round" that you can't see common sense, and that's sad.



> If it makes you feel any better the Mavs are regular season troopers, too bad titles aren't handed out during the season. They are 'faux' contenders


So a WCF appearance and a finals appearance is negated by a 1st round loss, and they're considered a regular season team. Good to know fans are being as thoughtful and as analytical as they can be nowadays. 



> sounds like most of what youre saying is just excuses. and then a pre-emptive seed there, as in "hats off."
> 
> we haven't even spoke of the 0-2 choke job i nthe previous year.


Like I said, to be shocked that a coach who built a team and swept them that regular season could come back and beat them is being blind to facts. Call it an excuse, I call it common sense, something too many people around here are lacking.


----------



## SeaNet (Nov 18, 2004)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



SlamJam said:


> who the **** does george think he is?


An NBA player w/ a no trade clause.


----------



## HB (May 1, 2004)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

I am not even going to argue anymore Dre, I am reveling in this comedy called the NBA. Devean George has made my night :laugh:


----------



## Vuchato (Jan 14, 2006)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

I have never felt an emotion like this. pissed off, while laughing in disbelief.


----------



## afobisme (Apr 29, 2006)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

http://www.nba.com/nba_news/Fazekas_recalled_080213.html

recall a d-leaguer - probably not a coincidence.


----------



## SeaNet (Nov 18, 2004)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



Krstic All Star said:


> He'll never work in this league again. Not that teams were beating down his door to begin with...


That's a patently absurd statement. He exercised a contractual right and he's going to be blackballed throughout the league? Laughably stupid statement.


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

And while I'm making that post, the deal is nullified?


----------



## HB (May 1, 2004)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

Seriously though, what does he think Cuban will do to him? Let him stay him there after botching their big trade


----------



## Krstic All-Star (Mar 9, 2005)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



SeaNet said:


> That's a patently absurd statement. He exercised a contractual right and he's going to be blackballed throughout the league? Laughably stupid statement.


Care to remember how many teams were jumping to sign him before this? Try to remember, and then try again.


----------



## mqtcelticsfan (Apr 2, 2006)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



Jamel Irief said:


> Yeah right. He is excercising a right the Mavs granted him and other teams are going to hate him for that?


Yes, yes they are. He's a scrub, and scrubs should not stop things like this from happening. 

If I ran the Mavs, he'd never, ever, ever play.


----------



## Mr. Hobbes (Jul 1, 2005)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

It'd be funnier if this was a deadline deal.


----------



## SeaNet (Nov 18, 2004)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



Dre™ said:


> And while I'm making that post, the deal is nullified?


Apparently, the Mavs could include Eddie Jones and still make it work. I would expect it will still happen. Still, highly entertaining.


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



HB said:


> I'm wrong, you're right.


Thank you for conceding.


----------



## Jizzy (Aug 24, 2005)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

lmao, cuban must have his boxing gloves ready to pop somebody


----------



## SeaNet (Nov 18, 2004)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



Krstic All Star said:


> Care to remember how many teams were jumping to sign him before this? Try to remember, and then try again.


I stand by my original post. Laughably stupid statement.


----------



## HB (May 1, 2004)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



Dre™;5288231 said:


> Thank you for conceding.


Come on dude, how old are you? You really had to edit my post to stroke your ego. Its not that serious, its an opinion stop taking things too seriously


----------



## HeaVINsent15 (Jul 13, 2007)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal;George excersizes no trade claus*

Wow George stops the deal in its tracks. That is ****in hillarious.


----------



## RX (May 24, 2006)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

Mavs should thank Devean George...

If this deal still goes through the Mavs are FINISHED...Kidd is WASHED UP...he can't shoot and is going to destroy their perimiter D...he is passable in the East..but in the West he is going to get TORCHED by the likes of Nash, Paul, Deron, Parker, Iverson, Davis...Jesus...the only PG in the West he'll be able to keep up with is Sam Cassel

This is on top of the loss of the entire Mavs bench...

Complete robbery by the Nets!


----------



## Marcus13 (Jul 17, 2002)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal;George excersizes no trade claus*

that is one of the funniest things i've ever seen. Dallas fans should be in love with George right now


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



HB said:


> A j...oke? What is this joke concept you speak of?


No worries, HB.


----------



## KingOfTheHeatians (Jul 22, 2005)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal;George excersizes no trade claus*

To hell with Obama. Devean George for President!!!! :lol:


----------



## Krstic All-Star (Mar 9, 2005)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



SeaNet said:


> I stand by my original post. Laughably stupid statement.


Maybe it was too condensed for you. Here's another try: a reserve player, who wasn't highly sought-after before this whole affair, has single-handedly blocked a major trade that could elevate his team significantly. 

So, two things. First, he isn't worth much as a player these days to begin with. Second, there's always a reaction, even if it never comes out in the open. 

How about you get back to me when his contract expires and he never plays in the league again?


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

Don't you love it when you experience career defining moments as they happen? If this deal doesn't go down, I motion for the NTC to be dubbed the "Devean George Clause."


----------



## Steez (Nov 28, 2002)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal;George excersizes no trade claus*

Maybe Cuban was getting brutalized for that trade so he told George to do that?


----------



## Krstic All-Star (Mar 9, 2005)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal;George excersizes no trade claus*



Steez said:


> Maybe Cuban was getting brutalized for that trade so he told George to do that?


That would be funny - but Stern would beat him for it.


----------



## mqtcelticsfan (Apr 2, 2006)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal;George excersizes no trade claus*



Steez said:


> Maybe Cuban was getting brutalized for that trade so he told George to do that?



I hope so. If Cuban wanted that trade to go through, and George blocked it, I hope he has a bodyguard.


----------



## SeaNet (Nov 18, 2004)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



Krstic All Star said:


> Maybe it was too condensed for you. Here's another try: a reserve player, who wasn't highly sought-after before this whole affair, has single-handedly blocked a major trade that could elevate his team significantly.
> 
> So, two things. First, he isn't worth much as a player these days to begin with. Second, there's always a reaction, even if it never comes out in the open.
> 
> How about you get back to me when his contract expires and he never plays in the league again?


It doesn't become smarter w/ increased length. If a team thinks Devean George can help them when his contract is up, he will get a new contract. This incident will not have an effect on that.


----------



## Jizzy (Aug 24, 2005)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal;George excersizes no trade claus*

hope cubans not drunk


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal;George excersizes no trade claus*

I wonder how George broke the news, it was probably his agent, but I'd like to imagine him looking at the ground with his hands in his pocket telling Cuban he's using his clause, and Cuban's face when he heard the news :rofl:


----------



## Mateo (Sep 23, 2006)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



Dre™ said:


> Don't you love it when you experience career defining moments as they happen? If this deal doesn't go down, I motion for the NTC to be dubbed the "Devean George Clause."


haha, Devean George Clause, i love it.


----------



## Krstic All-Star (Mar 9, 2005)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



SeaNet said:


> It doesn't become smarter w/ increased length. If a team thinks Devean George can help them when his contract is up, he will get a new contract. This incident will not have an effect on that.


That's the first half of it. Teams weren't looking at him even before this, so he re-signed with the Mavs for little more than if he hadn't opted out of his earlier contract. And now there's this...


----------



## SlamJam (Nov 27, 2004)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



SeaNet said:


> If a team thinks Devean George can help them when his contract is up, he will get a new contract. This incident will not have an effect on that.


actually i think this helps george. some teams probably didn't even know he was still in the league.


----------



## Marcus13 (Jul 17, 2002)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal;George excersizes no trade claus*



Dre™ said:


> I wonder how George broke the news, it was probably his agent, but I'd like to imagine him looking at the ground with his hands in his pocket telling Cuban he's using his clause, and Cuban's face when he heard the news :rofl:


I would have paid to see that:lol:


----------



## HB (May 1, 2004)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal;George excersizes no trade claus*

Has Screaming A commented yet? Lol this is going to be a Slava Medvenko type moment for him


----------



## MeirToTheWise (Nov 9, 2005)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal;George excersizes no trade claus*

Lol... What a wild month this has been. It's simply nuts. You couldn't script any of this, haha.


----------



## GOD (Jun 22, 2003)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



Krstic All Star said:


> That's the first half of it. Teams weren't looking at him even before this, so he re-signed with the Mavs for little more than if he hadn't opted out of his earlier contract. And now there's this...


I don't think any team would give him a no trade clause again, but this will not affect his abilities to get another contract.


----------



## Krstic All-Star (Mar 9, 2005)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



GOD said:


> I don't think any team would give him a no trade clause again, but this will not affect his abilities to get another contract.


They didn't 'give' it to him, it was a Bird Rights matter.


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*

Krstic All Star, what exactly were the circumstances that put the NTC in his contract? :laugh:


----------



## Krstic All-Star (Mar 9, 2005)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



Dre™;5288342 said:


> Krstic All Star, what exactly were the circumstances that put the NTC in his contract? :laugh:





> George has agreed to a roughly $2.4 million, one-year deal that keeps him as a reserve on one of the NBA's top teams and puts him in position for a bigger payday next summer, agent Mark Bartelstein said Monday.
> 
> George would've made around $2 million under the deal he signed last summer, but opted out of it last month. Bartelstein spoke with several teams, only to find that the best combination of salary and championship potential came from Dallas.
> 
> Part of the lure was that after this season the Mavs will hold George's "Bird rights," which means they can sign him again for a larger salary without certain salary cap implications.


 http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2930451

EDIT: some clarification about Bird Rights:


> 85. *When can't a player be traded? Can players be given "no-trade" clauses in their contracts?
> *
> ....
> 
> Without the player's consent when the player is playing under a one-year contract (excluding any option year) and will have Larry Bird or Early Bird rights at the end of the season. This includes first round draft picks following their fourth (option) season, who accept their team's qualifying offer for their fifth season. When the player consents to such a trade, the team loses its Larry Bird/Early Bird rights, and the player is considered a Non-Bird free agent. Note: when there is an option year involved, they can get around this regulation by invoking the option prior to the trade.


 http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#85


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*










"Devean George?"


----------



## Vuchato (Jan 14, 2006)

I just thought of the greatest idea ever:

All the owners get together, to discuss this. the Mavs cut George, then no team offers him a contract. Then in the off season, no team still offers him a contract, until late in the off season, the Nets offer him the vets minimum. So he has to play with the Nets or he's out of the league. Then he gets no playing time. The owners can show the players who's boss.




And what happens in the Wright for 2nd rounder deal? that sucks for the Nets.


----------



## magohaydz (Dec 21, 2005)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal;George excersizes no trade claus*



Dre™ said:


> I wonder how George broke the news, it was probably his agent, but I'd like to imagine him looking at the ground with his hands in his pocket telling Cuban he's using his clause, and Cuban's face when he heard the news :rofl:


HAHAHAHAHA I can picture it now...

*rocking back and forth on his feet nervously* "Excuse me Mr Cuban, sir...um....well, you see....I have this clause right and...well....you know" *runs*


----------



## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



Krstic All Star said:


> As has been posted already, it wasn't anything the Mavs gave him, it's due to the nature of his contract. But the fact is that he wasn't in demand before this, and teams could well be even more leery of signing him after this. Only superstars get away with being prima donnas.


primmadonna? So if your company wanted to move you instantly across the country and you blocked it someway you would be a primmadonna? You are way off base here.

If he doesn't get another contract it's because teams don't think he can help as a player. Why would George care about making the mavericks better if he is leaving?


----------



## Krstic All-Star (Mar 9, 2005)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



Jamel Irief said:


> primmadonna? So if your company wanted to move you instantly across the country and you blocked it someway you would be a primmadonna? You are way off base here.


If my company was planning a major move that could put it at the top of the profession, and I blocked it, I'd expect that prima donna would be the least of what they'd call me. It's not just that he wouldn't be moved, it's that the whole deal would be blocked. There's a huge difference.


----------



## RX (May 24, 2006)

If he is on a 1 yr contract, he probably joined to be on a contender...which NJ is definitely not, so I can't say you can blame the guy for using his clause...

You know Kidd would do the exact same thing in George's spot


----------



## WhoDaBest23 (Apr 16, 2003)

Wow. Devean freakin' George.


----------



## mjm1 (Aug 22, 2005)

poo, I wanted Harris! :azdaja: ****ing George


----------



## RX (May 24, 2006)

how many mavs fans want this to actually go down? i mean kidd for half the team? ....


----------



## mjm1 (Aug 22, 2005)

If George every crosses path with Kidd....WATCH OUT! oh snap lol


----------



## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

lol why give George a no trade clause in the 1st place?


----------



## mjm1 (Aug 22, 2005)

Pioneer10 said:


> lol why give George a no trade clause in the 1st place?


...


> Without the player's consent when the player is playing under a one-year contract (excluding any option year) and will have Larry Bird or Early Bird rights at the end of the season. This includes first round draft picks following their fourth (option) season, who accept their team's qualifying offer for their fifth season. When the player consents to such a trade, the team loses its Larry Bird/Early Bird rights, and the player is considered a Non-Bird free agent. Note: when there is an option year involved, they can get around this regulation by invoking the option prior to the trade.


courtesy of cpawfan.


----------



## Bartholomew Hunt (Mar 4, 2003)

:lol: :lol:


----------



## Seed (Jun 29, 2005)

it's like a early birds rights or something, during the offseason it didn't look like he was gonna get any deal so he went back to dallas for a 2 year contract but you know he didn't wanna get screwed thank god. They said he would be starting tonite so I kinda figured that he wasn't gonna get traded anyway.

I like him better than jones or hassell so I'm up for them to get traded over George


----------



## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

I guess who cares how he got it: This is one of the funniest things to occur in the NBA in a long freakin time. Of course, Kidd and Cuban probably don't think it's funny


----------



## Lynx (Mar 6, 2004)

LOL...Devean George of all the people... :laugh:


----------



## Seed (Jun 29, 2005)

DG is my hero screw Kidd. If this trade doesn't happen though think of the chemistry that was ruined by pulling this off. Cuban is stupid this trade basically says that he admits that he should have resigned Nash


----------



## Mateo (Sep 23, 2006)

devean freaking george. I always thought i'd remember him as that underachieving laker who couldn't even bump rick fox from the starting lineup. Now i'll remember him as "that chubby dude who blocked the dallas/kidd deal".


----------



## Krstic All-Star (Mar 9, 2005)

Right now, George is 0-7 from the field and 0-2 from the line.


----------



## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal;George excersizes no trade claus*



Steez said:


> Maybe Cuban was getting brutalized for that trade so he told George to do that?


I was just thinking this. Honestly, this seems out of character for George. Granted, I don't know the guy, but from having to endure him for years, it just seems like something he wouldn't do.


----------



## mjm1 (Aug 22, 2005)

innappropriate language


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

Damn, now we might have to give up Jones instead of George.


----------



## Krstic All-Star (Mar 9, 2005)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal;George excersizes no trade claus*



EHL said:


> I was just thinking this. Honestly, this seems out of character for George. Granted, I don't know the guy, but from having to endure him for years, it just seems like something he wouldn't do.


Hasn't George complained about things in the past? I seem to remember him whining about minutes...


----------



## Krstic All-Star (Mar 9, 2005)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal;George excersizes no trade claus*

George is now 0-10 from the field.


----------



## Seed (Jun 29, 2005)

mjm1 said:


> edited


:clap:

next mavs game I go to if Harris is still in Dallas I'm holding a sign that says 

D. George is my hero


----------



## Yao Mania (Aug 4, 2003)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal;George excersizes no trade claus*



Krstic All Star said:


> George is now 0-10 from the field.


Why's he still in the game? :laugh:


----------



## Krstic All-Star (Mar 9, 2005)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal;George excersizes no trade claus*



Yao Mania said:


> Why's he still in the game? :laugh:


I don't know, but he's now 0-11. _Something _is clearly on his mind.


----------



## Seed (Jun 29, 2005)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal;George excersizes no trade claus*



Krstic All Star said:


> I don't know, but he's now 0-11. _Something _is clearly on his mind.


I'm pretty sure he's doing it on purpose how do you miss free throws?!?! and Avery is agreeing with him way to smack Cuban in the face :clap2:


----------



## Krstic All-Star (Mar 9, 2005)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal;George excersizes no trade claus*

I don't think he's missing on purpose - I think he's thinking about something other than the rim.


----------



## Krstic All-Star (Mar 9, 2005)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal;George excersizes no trade claus*

Fazekas in for George - foreshadowing?


----------



## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

This **** is too funny.


----------



## GOD (Jun 22, 2003)

His balls are getting in the was of his shots


----------



## someone (Jul 17, 2007)

Devean George you the man! :cheers:

So hilarious


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

This is the most worthwhile thing Devean George has ever done in his career. Mavericks fans should be thanking the guy. He just saved your future.


----------



## KillWill (Jul 1, 2003)

futuristxen; said:


> This is the most worthwhile thing Devean George has ever done in his career. Mavericks fans should be thanking the guy. He just saved your future.


hey, and maybe there's still a chance you guys can sneak in a snag the kidd.


----------



## MLKG (Aug 25, 2003)

What I find amazing about all of this is how many people who post here either A) can't read, or B) don't bother to read articles relevent to what they are commenting about.

The whole "Devean George, no trade clause" issue is explicitly cleared up in the ESPN article. Every 1 year contract player with bird rights has a right to reject any trade. It's not something Dallas "gave" to Devean George. Read people. Read.

I still be the trade ends up going through. Was Devean George's contract THAT instrumental to it's completion? What does he make, 2 million? They shouldn't have a problem making that up.

What is extra funny about this is Devean George should already be out of the league, but Dallas is the only team stupid enough to give him a contract. I find it hilarious that a team that is labeled soft and poor defensively tries to change that by signing as many Trenton Hassell and Greg Buckner types as possible.

This is reminiscant of the Allen Iverson - Detroit trade back in 2000. The trade was a done deal before Matt Geiger, of all people, excercised his no trade clause and everything fell apart.


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

Don't act like the Mavs won't just cave and switch George with Jones.


----------



## essbee (Oct 30, 2006)

The fact that this story is so hilarious almost makes up for me missing a Jason Kidd game in my fantasy league. Damnit.


----------



## KillWill (Jul 1, 2003)

Dre™; said:


> Don't act like the Mavs won't just cave and switch George with Jones.


how would you feel about the squad if this is what happens? faithfully optimistic, or jump-into-the-abyss worried?


----------



## jordan0386 (Jul 4, 2006)

5th Beatle indeed.


----------



## VeN (May 10, 2005)

RX said:


> how many mavs fans want this to actually go down? i mean kidd for half the team? ....


kidd sure.. half the team plus first round draft pick... wtf were they even thinkin, gj devean!


----------



## Marcus13 (Jul 17, 2002)

They just said on NBA Fastbreak that Devean George is going to talk to the Nets tonight after his game and talk about what they have planned for him, then he might change his mind


----------



## jordan0386 (Jul 4, 2006)

Well, he wont be starting over Carter or RJ, so he best be prepared for his match for PHX.


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## ChristopherJ (Aug 10, 2004)

The trade will get done, it's just a matter of when. No way does a miniscule talent like George stop a blockbuster from happening.


----------



## ChristopherJ (Aug 10, 2004)

Marcus13 said:


> They just said on NBA Fastbreak that Devean George is going to talk to the Nets tonight after his game and talk about what they have planned for him, then he might change his mind


Any plans that don't involve Devean George sitting on the bench are a bad idea.


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## Marcus13 (Jul 17, 2002)

KidCanada said:


> Any plans that don't involve Devean George sitting on the bench are a bad idea.


Yeah...Im thinkin he might be looking for another year added to his contract so he can stick around the league for another season


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## Seed (Jun 29, 2005)

supposedly this could actually be a deal breaker, the nets can't get anymore players while trying to save money and the mavs maxed on the amount of money they can give. If George says no then this could really fall


----------



## VeN (May 10, 2005)

Seed said:


> supposedly this could actually be a deal breaker, the nets can't get anymore players while trying to save money and the mavs maxed on the amount of money they can give. If George says no then this could really fall


i hope so, because this trade just kills the team


----------



## HB (May 1, 2004)

^I dont think its that bad after thinking it over. If they get Stack back its a decent deal. They aren't in the driver's seat in the West though


----------



## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



Krstic All Star said:


> If my company was planning a major move that could put it at the top of the profession, and I blocked it, I'd expect that prima donna would be the least of what they'd call me. It's not just that he wouldn't be moved, it's that the whole deal would be blocked. There's a huge difference.


That's amazing loyalty you would show to a company that you would no longer be a part of and is transferring you to a rival.


----------



## Krstic All-Star (Mar 9, 2005)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



Jamel Irief said:


> That's amazing loyalty you would show to a company that you would no longer be a part of and is transferring you to a rival.


Where do you see loyalty in my post? What I said was that the least of what I would be called would be prima donna.


----------



## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

This is just the funniest situation ever. Devean "Nosetrails" George stops a blockbuster and in the process:

1) Saves the Mavericks - and [Bill Walton] the city of Dallas itself [/Walton] - from closing their championship window
2) Went a Jacque Vaughnish 0-11 from the field in 34 minutes in a starting role (while the team _somehow_ outscored the Blazers by 19 while he was on the court)
3) Now, if the Mavs don't do something else, might have to go back to work for the rest of the season for the team that intended to have him gone

And in an equally funny subplot (to me), Eddie Jones might be the fall-guy now. Championship coattail-riding thwarted AGAIN!


----------



## Ryethe (Nov 15, 2003)

As I said in the another thread,

Does Devean George not understand that Early Bird rights only mean something if your current team re-signs you?

George's agent is an idiot. Agent's should have to pass a CBA proficiency test before representing an NBA client because sorry to say it, but George is getting screwed. He won't play the rest of the season and Dallas won't sign him at the end of the season (nor will anyone else due to limited playing time and exposure).

On the other hand Dallas might have been saved


----------



## RoddneyThaRippa (Jun 28, 2003)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



Jamel Irief said:


> That's amazing loyalty you would show to a company that you would no longer be a part of and is transferring you to a rival.


You must have forgotten. Devean George is supposed to make any and every sacrifice possible to ensure that Kidd gets a chance at a title, and NBA fans have enough fodder to carry them through the all-star break. It isn't about him - it's about the league. Remember?


----------



## RoddneyThaRippa (Jun 28, 2003)

There's some really stupid ****ing posts in this thread, as usual. Obviously, there is something worked into George's contract or the CBA contract that allows him to veto the trade. It's fairly unreasonable to expect a player to jeopardize (whether real or imagined) his market value just so you all can get hard off a Kidd trade. The underlying assumption is that George makes enough money, i.e. more money than any of our broke, miserable asses can count, so he should just go along with this. That's pretty ****ing stupid, but not uncommon for a board such as this. 

Now, if the Mavericks cannot find a way to make the trade work over a player like Devean George, they don't deserve Kidd or the championship. Carry on, lemmings.


----------



## bballlife (Oct 5, 2003)

Ryethe said:


> As I said in the another thread,
> 
> Does Devean George not understand that Early Bird rights only mean something if your current team re-signs you?
> 
> ...




Good points, but George and his agent are probably praying that he can contribute in some way for the Mavs and then earn a small raise this summer. Even if he botched this trade, he could still help the Mavs and Cuban is willing to reward players who help his team. It could all just blow over. It will depend on how the Mavs do this season and whether or not George has any impact on that. 


New Jersey should be doing everything in their power to get this done. The reported deal is heavily in their favor.


----------



## HB (May 1, 2004)

RoddneyThaRippa said:


> There's some really stupid ****ing posts in this thread, as usual. Obviously, there is something worked into George's contract or the CBA contract that allows him to veto the trade. It's fairly unreasonable to expect a player to jeopardize (whether real or imagined) his market value just so you all can get hard off a Kidd trade. The underlying assumption is that George makes enough money, i.e. more money than any of our broke, miserable asses can count, so he should just go along with this. That's pretty ****ing stupid, but not uncommon for a board such as this.
> 
> Now, if the Mavericks cannot find a way to make the trade work over a player like Devean George, they don't deserve Kidd or the championship. Carry on, lemmings.


See post 331. The possibility of George playing in the NBA even before this debacle was slim to none. At this point he is no different than Darvin Ham


----------



## RoddneyThaRippa (Jun 28, 2003)

I understand the Bird rights, but George would be stupid to limit his options, no matter how implausible they may seem. There were also rumblings that he wanted guaranteed playing time. I mean, I'd rather ride the bench on a potential championship team than get ten minutes a game on a bottom feeder. Why is that so unreasonable? He's simply exercising options that are at his disposal. Blame his contract or the CBA.


----------



## SeaNet (Nov 18, 2004)

RoddneyThaRippa said:


> There's some really stupid ****ing posts in this thread, as usual. Obviously, there is something worked into George's contract or the CBA contract that allows him to veto the trade. It's fairly unreasonable to expect a player to jeopardize (whether real or imagined) his market value just so you all can get hard off a Kidd trade. The underlying assumption is that George makes enough money, i.e. more money than any of our broke, miserable asses can count, so he should just go along with this. That's pretty ****ing stupid, but not uncommon for a board such as this.
> 
> Now, if the Mavericks cannot find a way to make the trade work over a player like Devean George, they don't deserve Kidd or the championship. Carry on, lemmings.


On point, as usual, on this sort of thing, Rodney.


----------



## OneBadLT123 (Oct 4, 2005)

I wonder why Dallas traded him in the first place knowing he had a NTC. Did they honestly expect him to just go along with it and accept going to a garbage team? Yeah he may suck, but he is exercising an option in his contract in which he has every right to.

Also, I wonder if this has anything to do with Stackhouse and Harris too. Maybe they influenced Devon to do this because they may not want to leave as well. You never know...


----------



## Seed (Jun 29, 2005)

OneBadLT123 said:


> I wonder why Dallas traded him in the first place knowing he had a NTC. Did they honestly expect him to just go along with it and accept going to a garbage team? Yeah he may suck, but he is exercising an option in his contract in which he has every right to.
> 
> Also, I wonder if this has anything to do with Stackhouse and Harris too. Maybe they influenced Devon to do this because they may not want to leave as well. You never know...


I think initially he said yes to the deal, but I don't think he understood what would happen with his contract until the last minute.


----------



## xray (Feb 21, 2005)

bballlife said:


> ...Cuban is willing to reward players who help his team.


Not...necessarily...


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

There are people willing to eat cow balls for 50,000 and you expect George to just give up 500 to 1 million potentially without even thinking it over? Impractical. 

I don't care how much money he has now and how bad this hurts his standing as a player (temporarily), it would've been worse for him to just go along with things without looking out for number one.


----------



## someone (Jul 17, 2007)

The big question is whether this thread will get to 30 pages before the trade goes though.


----------



## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



Krstic All Star said:


> Where do you see loyalty in my post? What I said was that the least of what I would be called would be prima donna.


If what you are saying is that you have a right to call Devean George names because your favorite team doesn't make the deal than I agree with you. If you are saying George actually IS a primma donna or any of the names you are calling him are deserved than I will turn around and say you are a myopic fan.

George shouldn't care about you or the Nets and Mavericks (if he is not actually on them) well being. I would rather play for a better team with plush facilities in a better city if I had the chance to.


----------



## someone (Jul 17, 2007)

what is with "primma donna" and why can't everyone spell it the right way, "pre-Madonna"

Or just call it Primo Pasta for all I care, that one is funnier.


----------



## Krstic All-Star (Mar 9, 2005)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



Jamel Irief said:


> If what you are saying is that you have a right to call Devean George names because your favorite team doesn't make the deal than I agree with you. If you are saying George actually IS a primma donna or any of the names you are calling him are deserved than I will turn around and say you are a myopic fan.
> 
> George shouldn't care about you or the Nets and Mavericks (if he is not actually on them) well being. I would rather play for a better team with plush facilities in a better city if I had the chance to.


As I said in another thread, George has managed to put himself in a completely untenable position. As a Nets fan, I could care less about his point of view, though I recognize how he must feel. 

What he should have known (or his agent should have known) is that the way he portrayed himself leaves him wide open to being called a prima donna and God knows what else. And he hurt himself further when he went and talked about trying to find out what his 'role' would be on the Nets. 

If he'd limited himself to saying that he had chosen the Mavs (again) last summer because he loved the city, wanted to retire there, and wanted to win a championship there, he'd look much better. But he went ahead and inserted questions about 'his role' as a Net. That's where it gets a bit ridiculous, and that's where I get annoyed. He should've just focused on the monetary and contractual factors - which are legitimate - instead of the course he's apparently chosen.


----------



## RoddneyThaRippa (Jun 28, 2003)

SeaNet said:


> On point, as usual, on this sort of thing, Rodney.


Are you being serious or sarcastic? This board has me shell-shocked.


----------



## SeaNet (Nov 18, 2004)

RoddneyThaRippa said:


> Are you being serious or sarcastic? This board has me shell-shocked.


Totally serious. I would have repped you, but I must spread more reputation around before I can do that (not always the easiest thing to do in here, lol).

No one wants this deal to go through as much as I do (well, outside of Rod Thorn), but George absolutely made the right call by delaying it until he could talk to his agent and his agent could talk to the Nets. It is his contractual right. There's nothing more to it. And if he doesn't want to go, then that is his right too. He is just as much a necessary signatory to this trade as the Mavs and the Nets are. In fact, the Mavs and Nets never should have leaked the trade until they had involved George and his agent in the process. As my people have been fond of saying in the movies over the years.... it's not personal; it's just business.


----------



## RoddneyThaRippa (Jun 28, 2003)

I'd love for it to go through too. Regardless, I don't see it not happening because of George. I'm sure they'll find another way. Who would want to have disgruntled players on their teams after a fiasco like this?


----------



## xray (Feb 21, 2005)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



Krstic All Star said:


> What he should have known (or his agent should have known) is that the way he portrayed himself leaves him wide open to being called a prima donna and God knows what else.


Well, one thing he’s guaranteed himself is a slow death with Maverick fans – whether or not this trade goes through (and whether or not it’s good for the Mavs) he’ll be portrayed as a traitor by the fans as long as he’s here.


----------



## HB (May 1, 2004)

George isnt backing down, looks like its dead for now


----------



## Krstic All-Star (Mar 9, 2005)

HB said:


> George isnt backing down, looks like its dead for now


At this point, he really doesn't have anything to lose.


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

So did he have his little conference with his agent yet and is saying no deal, or does that have yet to happen?


----------



## HB (May 1, 2004)

Some media outlets are saying KVH could be key to making this work


----------



## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

*Sources: Kidd's trade to Mavs could still happen, but may require Van Horn*



> The trade to return Jason Kidd to the Dallas Mavericks remained in limbo Thursday, with no clear indication that Mavericks reserve forward Devean George is planning to rescind his right to block the deal.
> 
> Yet at least two sources close to the process remained optimistic that the deal will be completed -- either in its original or a substitute form -- before the NBA's annual trading deadline, which falls next Thursday at 3 p.m. ET. Sources say George's agent, Mark Bartelstein, and New Jersey Nets president Rod Thorn were in talks Thursday to clarify the Nets' plans for George, with Thorn hoping to convince Bartelstein and his 30-year-old client to abandon their resistance.
> 
> ...


----------



## Sunsfan81 (Apr 17, 2006)

LOL this is funny, who the hell is Devean George to be blocking trades?


----------



## xray (Feb 21, 2005)

Why would he "reconsider" unless there's some weight being thrown around?


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

xray said:


> Why would he "reconsider" unless there's some weight being thrown around?


Supposedly he wanted to know what "his role" would be in NJ. All they have to do is blow smoke and hope he believes it. 

I thought this was primarily a financial decision but apparently not.


----------



## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

Dre™ said:


> Supposedly he wanted to know what "his role" would be in NJ. All they have to do is blow smoke and hope he believes it.
> 
> I thought this was primarily a financial decision but apparently not.


I don't believe this for a second, it's all about $.


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

croco said:


> I don't believe this for a second, it's all about $.


As it should be.


----------



## Idunkonyou (Feb 23, 2003)

George is starting to become overrated. He has two threads talking about him on the front page of this forum, LOL!!! :lol:


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

Dissonance19 said:


> *Sources: Kidd's trade to Mavs could still happen, but may require Van Horn*


I'd love to see bitter-***, washed-up Keith Van Horn stick it to both his former teams and turn down the free million dollars.

Why wouldn't Dallas just toss in equally washed-up Eddie Jones?


----------



## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



Krstic All Star said:


> As I said in another thread, George has managed to put himself in a completely untenable position. As a Nets fan, I could care less about his point of view, though I recognize how he must feel.
> 
> What he should have known (or his agent should have known) is that the way he portrayed himself leaves him wide open to being called a prima donna and God knows what else. And he hurt himself further when he went and talked about trying to find out what his 'role' would be on the Nets.
> 
> If he'd limited himself to saying that he had chosen the Mavs (again) last summer because he loved the city, wanted to retire there, and wanted to win a championship there, he'd look much better. But he went ahead and inserted questions about 'his role' as a Net. That's where it gets a bit ridiculous, and that's where I get annoyed. He should've just focused on the monetary and contractual factors - which are legitimate - instead of the course he's apparently chosen.


Considering you were up in arms before George said a word I have a hard time buying any of that.


----------



## Sunsfan81 (Apr 17, 2006)

Marcus13 said:


> They just said on NBA Fastbreak that Devean George is going to talk to the Nets tonight after his game and talk about what they have planned for him, then he might change his mind


HAHAHA he's a scrub and he wants to know what the Nets have planned for him?? The Nets have great plans for you Devean, they want you to be their star player! The Nets plan to allow you to take as many shots as you want! :lol:


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## Vuchato (Jan 14, 2006)

Rawse said:


> I'd love to see bitter-***, washed-up Keith Van Horn stick it to both his former teams and turn down the free million dollars.
> 
> Why wouldn't Dallas just toss in equally washed-up Eddie Jones?


Jones doesn't make the $$ work.

And it'd be cool to see KVH lace em up a few more times with the Nets, just to see what he can do.


----------



## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

Rawse said:


> I'd love to see bitter-***, washed-up Keith Van Horn stick it to both his former teams and turn down the free million dollars.
> 
> Why wouldn't Dallas just toss in equally washed-up Eddie Jones?


My name is Avery Johnson and I love veterans. Eddie will occasionally play good defense, that is all we need from him. He doesn't need to score, offense is overrated anyway. It's ok that he gets his 3.4 points in 20.3 minutes, he is not being selfish. I like that. 

Even Jason Kidd shoots a higher percentage than Eddie Jones by the way.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

Eddie said he won't go to NJ, talk about mediocrity calling the shots in this one :laugh:


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## Jizzy (Aug 24, 2005)

un effing beleivable a scrub can do this


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## edwardcyh (Dec 13, 2005)

croco said:


> My name is Avery Johnson and I love veterans. Eddie will occasionally play good defense, that is all we need from him. He doesn't need to score, offense is overrated anyway. It's ok that he gets his 3.4 points in 20.3 minutes, he is not being selfish. I like that.
> 
> Even Jason Kidd shoots a higher percentage than Eddie Jones by the way.


and... I am mac.

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ci2D1ig4df4&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ci2D1ig4df4&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>


----------



## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

Jizzy said:


> un effing beleivable a scrub can do this


Stop being a scrub team and they won't.


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## Jet (Jul 1, 2005)

What is this KVH nonsense? Get that out of here. I don't want to hear any more about KVH. As far as I know, he is no longer a professional basketball player and works at a Wal-Mart. Heh, not really.. but I thought it was funny. Though, I agree with Dre about having mediocrity calling the shots. These guys are professional players, and Eddie and Devean have both won Championships before, if they go to NJ they will still be making the same amount of money. They need to get over it.


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## Jizzy (Aug 24, 2005)

Jamel Irief said:


> Stop being a scrub team and they won't.


ummm.. if we werent a scrub team, we wouldnt be trading kidd. that made no sense, what you just said


----------



## KillWill (Jul 1, 2003)

Jet; said:


> What is this KVH nonsense? Get that out of here. I don't want to hear any more about KVH. As far as I know, he is no longer a professional basketball player and works at a Wal-Mart. Heh, not really.. but I thought it was funny. Though, I agree with Dre about having mediocrity calling the shots. These guys are professional players, and Eddie and Devean have both won Championships before, if they go to NJ they will still be making the same amount of money. They need to get over it.


actually, no. george would be giving up the only advantage he has as an nba player by agreeing to this trade. would you give up a million bucks to help the the team that's shipping you out?


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## Jet (Jul 1, 2005)

KillWill said:


> actually, no. george would be giving up the only advantage he has as an nba player by agreeing to this trade. would you give up a million bucks to help the the team that's shipping you out?


I suppose that is true and this clause to block trades is a great advantage for him, but in all seriousness, I'm sure he would be playing a lot more in New Jersey than he is in Dallas... and right now, the fans aren't exactly being kind to him, so he would be welcomed more in New Jersey than he is in Dallas.


----------



## Krstic All-Star (Mar 9, 2005)

*Re: Sources: Mavericks, Nets closing in on Kidd deal*



Jamel Irief said:


> Considering you were up in arms before George said a word I have a hard time buying any of that.


Actually, his agent mentioned playing time early on.


----------



## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

Jet said:


> I suppose that is true and this clause to block trades is a great advantage for him, but in all seriousness, I'm sure he would be playing a lot more in New Jersey than he is in Dallas... and right now, the fans aren't exactly being kind to him, so he would be welcomed more in New Jersey than he is in Dallas.


Apparently, he and the agent, like his role more in Dallas, and cited him starting right now as a reason. But it's only because of Howard being injured.


----------



## afobisme (Apr 29, 2006)

actually, devean first asked for the trade. when it was granted, he was like "wait a minute..."

so he didn't keep his word.


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

Mark Stein is reporting Cuban is resigned to signing and trading KVH if George doesn't change his mind, so it looks like Kidd will be a Mav sooner or later.


----------



## Vuchato (Jan 14, 2006)

yippee! would he sign him to a big enough deal so that Stack doesn't have to be included? The Mavs keep him for the 30 days and the Nets save money, the Mavs may also (idk)


----------



## afobisme (Apr 29, 2006)

Dre™ said:


> Mark Stein is reporting Cuban is resigned to signing and trading KVH if George doesn't change his mind, so it looks like Kidd will be a Mav sooner or later.


i read that they could just send over eddie jones + juwan howard.


----------



## HeaVINsent15 (Jul 13, 2007)

Jamel Irief said:


> Stop being a scrub team and they won't.


Yeah and the Nets havent done anything in the past coupl of years. All they did was get to the finals twice and make the playoffs every tim. did the Mavericks?


----------



## Vuchato (Jan 14, 2006)

afobisme said:


> i read that they could just send over eddie jones + juwan howard.


screws up roster requirements. And Dallas' depth.


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

afobisme said:


> i read that they could just send over eddie jones + juwan howard.


Jones said he'd "go home" if he was put in the deal, that'd be even more ugliness, that's not a realistic alternative.


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## afobisme (Apr 29, 2006)

Dre™;5291270 said:


> Jones said he'd "go home" if he was put in the deal, that'd be even more ugliness, that's not a realistic alternative.


they only need jones for the expiring contract, so what does dallas or new jersey care?


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

If he doesn't do his physical then it doesn't go through does it?


----------



## afobisme (Apr 29, 2006)

if he refuses to do his physical, he'd get in trouble by the NBA.


----------



## mjm1 (Aug 22, 2005)

Dre™ said:


> If he doesn't do his physical then it doesn't go through does it?


not a 100% sure on this...but I believe Mourning never even *reported* to Toronto after being dealt by the nets for Vince Carter in 04, let alone take a physical.


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

It's not worth the trouble. Cuban would just stop being cheap and pay the luxury tax, plus I'd rather keep Jones for his defense.


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## afobisme (Apr 29, 2006)

what trouble is it? you just file for the trade. if jones doesn't want to show up then he doesn't. that's all.

and i wouldn't want to keep both jones AND george. no point in that.


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

> Sources say New Jersey would balk at any attempt by Dallas to substitute George with anyone other than Van Horn. The Nets have no interest in replacing him with veteran swingman Eddie Jones and rookie Nick Fazekas or Jones and veteran forward Juwan Howard because the contracts belonging to Jones and Fazekas don't expire at season's end like George's, slicing into the long-term payroll savings New Jersey seeks as part of its post-Kidd rebuilding package.


It doesn't look like a realistic option.


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

I'm glad this is forcing ESPN to educate the casual fan on Bird Rights. They rarely ever cover anything regarding the salary cap.


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## afobisme (Apr 29, 2006)

if this happens without george, i'd like to see if they bench george for the rest of the season and don't end up re-signing him.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

afobisme said:


> if this happens without george, i'd like to see if they bench george for the rest of the season and don't end up re-signing him.


Apparently the only way George would get the extra money the Bird Rights grant him is if he were in a sign and trade, and suffice to say :laugh: at the Mavericks signing and trading him, like his value is gonna command anything back. 

It's possible SnTing him would be apart of a bigger deal, but it's a slim chance. Typically, the only sign and traded players are stars at the worst, not rotation players.

I could understand him sitting back for a day or whatever and talking about that with his agent, but the likelihood of a sign and trade should be slim enough for him to just go ahead to Jersey, his agent should've told him that. I didn't know the exact ramifications of his Bird Rights before I just read up on it. 

So either he actually is worried about going to Jersey, or his agent is an idiot willing to ruin his status with his current team on an off chance. Either or.


----------



## HB (May 1, 2004)

Does he even know he will be getting more playing time in Jersey? As of right now, the Nets have no backup 2 guards


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## xray (Feb 21, 2005)

The last time things got this screwed up in Dallas, the bottom fell out.:biggrin:


----------



## OneBadLT123 (Oct 4, 2005)

HeaVINsent15 said:


> Yeah and the Nets havent done anything in the past coupl of years. All they did was get to the finals twice and make the playoffs every tim. did the Mavericks?


That was more then a couple years ago...


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## DuMa (Dec 25, 2004)

now stackhouse is in trouble...


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## edwardcyh (Dec 13, 2005)

DuMa said:


> now stackhouse is in trouble...


Now Dallas is not in trouble. :biggrin:

We'll just keep our team and make our exits in the playoffs year after year....


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

Jet said:


> What is this KVH nonsense? Get that out of here. I don't want to hear any more about KVH. As far as I know, he is no longer a professional basketball player and works at a Wal-Mart. Heh, not really.. but I thought it was funny. Though, I agree with Dre about having mediocrity calling the shots. These guys are professional players, and Eddie and Devean have both won Championships before, if they go to NJ they will still be making the same amount of money. They need to get over it.


Actually, Eddie Jones has never won a title, which is the reason he's still piggy-backing on good teams and ruining his career averages.


----------



## MeirToTheWise (Nov 9, 2005)

The Untold Story of Devean George

Lol ^_^


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## edwardcyh (Dec 13, 2005)

MeirToTheWise said:


> The Untold Story of Devean George
> 
> Lol ^_^


:lol:

Remind me to thank Kupchak after the trading deadline.


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## Jizzy (Aug 24, 2005)

****in stackhouse couldnt keep his ****in mouth shut


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Jizzy said:


> ****in stackhouse couldnt keep his ****in mouth shut


Calm down Jizzy. My response from another thread




HB said:


> The league is not going to do squat about Stackhouse' comments. Its part of the hypocritical moves they like to do, acting like they are really concerned about the integrity of the game. What happened when Gomes implied the Celts were tanking and the league said they would look into it?
> 
> This trade will go down with or without George. Cuban just has to dig deeper into his pockets and go with the KVH option


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## Seed (Jun 29, 2005)

Oh man looks like Cuban doesn't want to do the trade now...I got this from a Mavs board and it looks like that Cuban might not want to do it anymore. Plus George said that after last night's game he really wants to stay as a Mav now



Mark Cuban made a weird comment that was quoted in today's Fort Worth Star-Telegram Mavericks sidebar by Jan Hubbard (I can't find it online, but it is on page 4D of my hard copy of the FWST sports page) Here is the paragraph word-for-word...

Cuban said he is not frustrated that the trade has been halted. "I was never that excited about it in the first place," Cuban said. "There are pluses and minuses to every discussion that we had. If someone wants to hand me a bargain, I'm going to take it. But this is no bargain."


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## edwardcyh (Dec 13, 2005)

Seed said:


> Cuban said he is not frustrated that the trade has been halted. "I was never that excited about it in the first place," Cuban said. "There are pluses and minuses to every discussion that we had. If someone wants to hand me a bargain, I'm going to take it. But this is no bargain."


I don't believe a word coming out of Cuban's mouth these days.

But.... George wants to stay in Dallas after last night's game? :lol:


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## King Sancho Fantastic (Jul 19, 2005)

The only Cuban you guys should trust is right


<----there.


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

*Source: Stackhouse can be in Kidd trade, but can't go back*




> The chances of Jason Kidd wearing a Dallas Mavericks uniform this season are shrinking by the day.
> 
> First, Devean George refused to consent to the trade to New Jersey. Now, according to a league source, the league will not allow the Mavericks to bring back Jerry Stackhouse if he is traded and subsequently waived by the New Jersey Nets.
> 
> ...


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

^Looks like the deal is off then


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## King Sancho Fantastic (Jul 19, 2005)

Damn! Very interesting. Does Stack take the deal, and then sign with another contender?? Spurs? Suns? Lakers? Boston??


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

Mavs were probably only willing to deal him, because they thought they could get him back. They might just back out now. Though they could try and get a 3rd team involved


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## Jizzy (Aug 24, 2005)

not necessary.--BB


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## HeaVINsent15 (Jul 13, 2007)

OneBadLT123 said:


> That was more then a couple years ago...


Oh well a scrub team doesnt get to the 2nd round of the playoffs or have winning streaks of 10 and 14 either. Thatwas in the last 2 years.


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

The Grinch just stole christmas from the Nets fans.


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## MLKG (Aug 25, 2003)

I like that the league stepped in on the Stackhouse situation. 

To me, the notion that New Jersey would buy him out to begin with is anti-competitive. He's still a good player, and one of the best 6th men in the league. Why would New Jersey, a team that is in the playoffs right now, want to buy him out after trading for him? How does that improve their team? 

It's one thing for a team that is clearly out of the playoff hunt - like Atlanta in recent years - to waive a veteran after a trade as part of a focus on youth. It's another for a playoff team to make their team worse by waiving a veteran they could use for no good reason at all.


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## Jizzy (Aug 24, 2005)

MLKG said:


> I like that the league stepped in on the Stackhouse situation.
> 
> To me, the notion that New Jersey would buy him out to begin with is anti-competitive. He's still a good player, and one of the best 6th men in the league. Why would New Jersey, a team that is in the playoffs right now, want to buy him out after trading for him? How does that improve their team?
> 
> It's one thing for a team that is clearly out of the playoff hunt - like Atlanta in recent years - to waive a veteran after a trade as part of a focus on youth. It's another for a playoff team to make their team worse by waiving a veteran they could use for no good reason at all.



stackhouse didnt want to leave dallas and dallas was going to give NJ the money to buy him out so it would cost them nothing


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## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

What does it matter if Dallas got New Jersey to agree to buy out Stackhouse? 

That just means New Jersey is dealing for everything besides Stackhouse and he is just there to make the salaries match. So what if they're just making the salaries match? People get bought out all the time.

Part of the problem with the NBA is the salary cap hell that wrecks teams. The static immovable guaranteed contracts like Stephon Marbury aren't good for basketball. How can a trade where both teams can improve be bad for the NBA?


----------



## SeaNet (Nov 18, 2004)

What a bummer. Gonna be an interesting 2nd half of the season in NJ if Kidd doesn't get moved. Does he play balls out to prove he still has some worth for next year? Or does he continue w/ tankfest?


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## edwardcyh (Dec 13, 2005)

:yay:

Now DAL can focus on making a blockbuster deal else where!


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

MLKG said:


> I like that the league stepped in on the Stackhouse situation.
> 
> To me, the notion that New Jersey would buy him out to begin with is anti-competitive. He's still a good player, and one of the best 6th men in the league. Why would New Jersey, a team that is in the playoffs right now, want to buy him out after trading for him? How does that improve their team?
> 
> It's one thing for a team that is clearly out of the playoff hunt - like Atlanta in recent years - to waive a veteran after a trade as part of a focus on youth. It's another for a playoff team to make their team worse by waiving a veteran they could use for no good reason at all.


Well for one, NJ is rumored to be trying to get Mike Miller. That would be the 6th man. Secondly why keep a malcontent on the team and just stink up the locker room. Its unfortunate this deal didnt go down, I really thought it was favorable for the Nets.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

If this buyout thing isn't an official rule, the league has no legs to stand on. They might not like what Stackhouse said, but they have nothing to enforce it with. 

It's going to get real ugly if the league's embarassment at having such a loophole is going to end up costing both teams the deal. Then again that means Cuban can just sign KVH to even more, I'm sure the Nets would like that.


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## MLKG (Aug 25, 2003)

Dre™ said:


> If this buyout thing isn't an official rule, the league has no legs to stand on. They might not like what Stackhouse said, but they have nothing to enforce it with.


Umm, the collective bargaining agreement?

If Stackhouse is traded to the Nets, bought out, and clears waivers - that makes him a free agent. Every team would then have a right to pursue his services.

If he and Dallas have a prearranged agreement in place that he would return after 30 days, that gives them an unfair advantage in a free agent negotiation and is tantamount to tampering.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

MLKG said:


> Umm, the collective bargaining agreement?
> 
> If Stackhouse is traded to the Nets, bought out, and clears waivers - that makes him a free agent. Every team would then have a right to pursue his services.
> 
> If he and Dallas have a prearranged agreement in place that he would return after 30 days, that gives them an unfair advantage in a free agent negotiation and is tantamount to tampering.


Umm, do you want to show me some proof that they had an under the table agreement? 

This trade and buyout thing happens all the time, now that someone's called attention to it, they want to do something about it. 

Stack was saying he's not going to entertain any other offers, those aren't his intentions. I want to know how that's implying anything prearranged.


----------



## justasking? (Oct 1, 2005)

STACKHOUSE CAN STILL BE IN THE DEAL .... 



> Two league spokesmen said the NBA has not told the Mavericks that Jerry Stackhouse cannot be part of the trade package for Jason Kidd. The league has also not told the Mavs that Stackhouse can't return to the team after the 30-day period if a trade goes down.





> However, and this is a significant however, it appears if the deal is consummated and Stackhouse is part of it, the league can then step in and investigate Stackhouse's comments to determine if the Mavs had a pre-arranged deal to trade Stackhouse and then re-sign him knowing that the Nets planned to buy out the remainder of his contract, thus making him a free agent.





> The league could react harshly at that point. A report on espn.com said that a league source said the league has notified the Mavs that if Stackhouse is part of a deal he will not be allowed to return to the Mavs. Two NBA spokesmen denied the league has said anything to the Mavs, but there does appear a window open for the league to step in if a deal gets done.


http://startelegram.typepad.com/mavs_fullcourt_press/


----------



## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

It could be like Joe Smith all over again. The wink-wink deals are frowned upon. Good job by the league IMO. Hopefully Captain Kidd gets to go down with the Ship in the Swamp. LOL


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

HKF said:


> It could be like Joe Smith all over again. The wink-wink deals are frowned upon. Good job by the league IMO. Hopefully Captain Kidd gets to go down with the Ship in the Swamp. LOL


And you talk about Kobe haters...

Anyway, the trade deadline is a week away, so I guess there's one more week for a ridiculous angle.

Cuban could end all this BS by just signing Van Horn and getting it over with.


----------



## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Less than a week. Thursday. I don't hate Kidd on the court, and I don't hate him off the court. I simply don't like him.


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## afobisme (Apr 29, 2006)

kobe haters... that's a different thing. kobe haters attack kobe's character and are always looking for something negative to say. that's what a hater is.. 

what hkf is saying is.. ha, you won't get a shot with a title contender. it's not quite the same thing, at least to me.


----------



## Case (Dec 17, 2007)

HKF said:


> It could be like Joe Smith all over again. The wink-wink deals are frowned upon. Good job by the league IMO. Hopefully Captain Kidd gets to go down with the Ship in the Swamp. LOL


The difference with Joe was that the deal was written down. Totally stupid on Minnesota's part.

If you think about it, a verbal agreement like this is no different than the two-week moratorium in July on signing free agents. Teams can reach verbal agreements with free agents, but can't sign anyone. I don't see a problem with Stackhouse and Dallas verbally agreeing to re-sign, as long as NJ is willing to buy him out. The trade rules are unnecessarily complicated, anyway.


----------



## Mateo (Sep 23, 2006)

Case said:


> The difference with Joe was that the deal was written down. Totally stupid on Minnesota's part.
> 
> If you think about it, a verbal agreement like this is no different than the two-week moratorium in July on signing free agents. Teams can reach verbal agreements with free agents, but can't sign anyone. I don't see a problem with Stackhouse and Dallas verbally agreeing to re-sign, as long as NJ is willing to buy him out. The trade rules are unnecessarily complicated, anyway.


I think the problem is a verbal agreement between Dallas and New Jersey, not between Dallas and Stackhouse. If New Jersey is saying they'll cut him, that's cutting around salary cap rules.

This can all be fixed if some western conference team picks him up off waivers, just out of spite. I hope someone does that.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

They have no proof, bottomline.


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

ESPN's reporting the revised deal is:

Kidd, Allen for Hassell, Ager, KVH, Harris, Diop and the 2 1sts.

If the Nets are caving and taking Hassell, they must really wanna get rid of Kidd.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3250819


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

How many roster spots do the Nets have?


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

I guess they're going to immediately cut someone or something, but that is a good point.


----------



## Vuchato (Jan 14, 2006)

It's been mentioned that the Nets may have a deal set up with Memphis of Nachbar, Magloire, Armstrong and a pick (assumed to be Dallas' this year) for Mike Miller.


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

So Miller's gonna come off their bench if that goes through. He's not gonna like that.


----------



## Vuchato (Jan 14, 2006)

well, there have also been rumblings that Vince might be traded for JO. (ick) I'd rather just have Vince come off the bench, or trade RJ.


----------



## Ballscientist (Nov 11, 2002)

Do you believe the rumors?

1. Mavs gaves Van Horn $7 millions contract and traded him to Nets.

2. Artest refused to go to Nuggets because Nuggets don't want to pay him market value./


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

Artest is going to the Knicks for Marbury's contract this summer, then Marbury gets bought out. I'm calling it now.


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## HeaVINsent15 (Jul 13, 2007)

Nets caved for Hassel and the deal went through with Van Horn. No Stackhouse no George. http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3250819


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

Dre™ said:


> So Miller's gonna come off their bench if that goes through. He's not gonna like that.


I think he'd be ok backing up Carter and Jefferson. He's all "team-first, me-second." Former Sixth Man of the Year. He wouldn't cause any problems over that.

Now, he might have a problem coming off the bench for Antoine Wright, for example.

Depending on what you believe, the latest is that Memphis is leaning toward keeping Miller, probably because the fan base's reaction to trading Miller (a much more popular player than Gasol was in Memphis) for scraps would be storming the FedExForum with torches and pitchforks.


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

Rawse said:


> I think he'd be ok backing up Carter and Jefferson. He's all "team-first, me-second." Former Sixth Man of the Year. He wouldn't cause any problems over that.
> 
> Now, he might have a problem coming off the bench for Antoine Wright, for example.
> 
> Depending on what you believe, the latest is that Memphis is leaning toward keeping Miller, probably because the fan base's reaction to trading Miller (a much more popular player than Gasol was in Memphis) for scraps would be storming the FedExForum with torches and pitchforks.


I'm sure they wouldn't burn it down as fast if they were getting actual talent back, but noone cares about Boki, Jamaal or DA.


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

Rawse said:


> I think he'd be ok backing up Carter and Jefferson. He's all "team-first, me-second." Former Sixth Man of the Year. He wouldn't cause any problems over that.
> 
> Now, he might have a problem coming off the bench for Antoine Wright, for example.
> 
> Depending on what you believe, the latest is that Memphis is leaning toward keeping Miller, probably because the fan base's reaction to trading Miller (a much more popular player than Gasol was in Memphis) for scraps would be storming the FedExForum with torches and pitchforks.


I'm sure they wouldn't burn it down as fast if they were getting actual talent back, but noone cares about Boki, Jamaal or DA.


----------



## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

Dre™ said:


> I'm sure they wouldn't burn it down as fast if they were getting actual talent back, but noone cares about Boki, Jamaal or DA.


Attendance would fall to the triple-digits if that Miller trade with NJ goes down.

Not to say that it won't happen.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Please please let that Mike trade go down. He will get plenty of time by the way, not just as a 6th man, but when they go small also.

Wright should be gone too. Hassell is a better player


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Vuchato said:


> well, there have also been rumblings that Vince might be traded for JO. (ick) I'd rather just have Vince come off the bench, or trade RJ.


None of those scenarios make any sense


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## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

Trading for Miller doesn't make sense either. If you trade Kidd, your message to the team is that we are going to rebuild, not add more pieces.


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## someone (Jul 17, 2007)

30 pages and the trade hasn't happened yet, I called it! :yes:


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## HeaVINsent15 (Jul 13, 2007)

croco said:


> Trading for Miller doesn't make sense either. If you trade Kidd, your message to the team is that we are going to rebuild, not add more pieces.


Not true. Actually the Nets have shown no signs that they intend to rebuild. And I hope they dont no succesful team ever won by rebulding. Not the Spurs or Lakers or Suns or Detroit. The Nets are probably going to try and reconstruct and wait for guys to develop instead of blowing everything up for exp. contacts and banking on draft picks. The Grizzlies and Hawks up until now are examples of trying to rebuild.


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## Krstic All-Star (Mar 9, 2005)

HeaVINsent15 said:


> Nets caved for Hassel and the deal went through with Van Horn. No Stackhouse no George. http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3250819


I could see Hassell getting some minutes here and there as a deep reserve - provided he hasn't forgotten how to play defense.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

JO for Vince makes sense no matter what way you cut it. You're trading small for big and you're getting one less year on O'neal's contract. 

I'm part of the crowd that thinks O'Neal is injured but uninterested and rehabbing and rushing back to mediocrity. A trade's going to give him a jolt, I guarantee it.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

I disagree. I think Jermaine will continue to shoot 43%, get injured and lack motivation to play through it because he's soft.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

Yeah, only a soft player could be as good defensively as he is.


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## Vuchato (Jan 14, 2006)

I think Vince would be a better mentor, less of a cancer in the locker room, and a nicer guy around the young guys than JO. plus, our only other SG on the roster is Mo Ager, and we have 6 capable big men. Not to mention that recently Vince has been healthier, and I think when both are healthy, Vince is a better player.


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## Sliccat (Oct 16, 2004)

They aren't going anywhere with Vince, trading for O'Neal makes complete sense. Adds more depth to both offense and defense. They'll need a sg, but I think it makes their future a lot brighter.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

Vince is never going to be a mentor, neither is a cancer, they just don't give up a lot of effort oncourt when they're losing. They'll be better off with JO, they haven't had a 4 since Martin left.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

Vince is never going to be a mentor, neither is a cancer, they just don't give up a lot of effort oncourt. They'll be better off with JO, they haven't had a 4 since Martin left.


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

I'd rather trade Vince for picks or a good young player if I was going to do it.You go forward with either him or O'Neal it's not going to even make you a real factor in the East.If you're going to rebuild then do it,not get half-way between and settle for mediocrity.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

Yeah I think the Nets somehow think they still have a chance at contention, or they're stuck with the realization that noone's going to take Vince without sending equally bad deals back. If the Nets could've got young players or picks for Vince they would've done it already.

They should work with Isiah to get Marbury's contract for Vince and filler.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Are you even watching O'Neal play? You are going off reputations. This guy is done.


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

I suppose the Hornets might take Vince at the right price.SG has been their biggest hole this year and in theory the Nets run a similar offense.Of course there's almost no way you can make the numbers work and Carter's contract would be horrible over the long run.I don't think their economics would allow them to trade some old dude like Dell Curry and take on any luxury tax either.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

They already struck out with Peja, taking Vince on too would kill them, unless they trade Peja in the deal.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

HKF said:


> Are you even watching O'Neal play? You are going off reputations. This guy is done.


I disagree. We'll see how he performs when he's traded. People thought Vince was done too in Toronto.


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## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

Different body types though, I think once you hit the wall as a big man there is no way back to the shape that made you an All-Star. When Carter mailed it in, everyone could see he did, he even admitted it himself. I don't think O'Neal is purposely trying to play bad, he just has been in the league for so long that he can't do better at this point anymore.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Jermaine O'Neal is done. So the Nets trade for him and their shooting guard spot becomes increasingly shoddy. Not only that, they have no one who can create for others, thats including Harris by the way. Vince has been averaging close to 5 assists since he got to the Nets, and thats with playing with Kidd. The JO trade makes no sense. I haven't even talked about him taking away minutes from Boone and Sean


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

And how would an athletic wing regain his shape? Carter never regained previous form, he just transformed his game. I think with how many small centers there are in the league O'Neal can still be an effective offensive player against most, he's still a good defender. I think people put too much stock into his innefficiency. He's always taken a lot of midrange shots, but he's still a good postup player. 

He'll never shoot 50% on the amount of shots he gets now, but he's still a talented player. But like I said, we'll see once he gets dealt.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

JO was never an efficient offensive player. The only reason I can see the Nets doing the trade is because of the length of his contract, not because they expect him to transform them into contenders. I can almost guarantee he will spend most of the time on the bench, and he never was an efficient offensive player to begin with.


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## Roscoe Sheed (Jun 19, 2006)

It has been stated that Van Horn must maintain "a presence" with the Nets. What exactly does that mean? Has McKie maintained "a presence" with Memphis?


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Something about being with the team for about a month or so. Which doesn't make any sense to me


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

Van Horn could still play if he wanted to.He's not that old and he could still hit shots.He simply retired because he wasn't going to get anything more than the MLE and he wanted to spend more time with his family.I guess he has time to pretend to be a basketball player for a month,at the right price.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

All he has to do is attend a practice and get a phantom hamstring pull or something.


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## Najee (Apr 5, 2007)

FWIW, I went to RealGm.com and worked out a three-way trade between Dallas, Indiana and New Jersey that would work, according to that site:

*INDIANA GETS:* Richard Jefferson and Jerry Stackhouse

*NEW JERSEY GETS:* Jermaine O'Neal, Jason Terry and Trenton Hassell

*DALLAS GETS:* Jason Kidd


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## TiMVP2 (Jun 19, 2003)

Hell no that won't happen


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## Sliccat (Oct 16, 2004)

Najee said:


> FWIW, I went to RealGm.com and worked out a three-way trade between Dallas, Indiana and New Jersey that would work, according to that site:
> 
> *INDIANA GETS:* Richard Jefferson and Jerry Stackhouse
> 
> ...


A bad trade on all fronts, except maybe Indiana.


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## Najee (Apr 5, 2007)

Sliccat said:


> A bad trade on all fronts, except maybe Indiana.


Dallas is getting the player it wants while giving up less. Indiana removes itself of a huge contract and adds another young wing player. New Jersey actually gets a better mix of players than what's offered on the table.

We know my idea isn't going to happen (given the pending deal that New Jersey and Dallas have put together), but that would be a cleaner deal. As it is, New Jersey is getting a decent point guard in the mold of Doc Rivers, a few spare parts and likely a pair of late first-round picks.

I can't say that's a better deal than getting Jermaine O'Neal (provided he will be healthy enough in 2008-09) and Jason Terry (who IMO is better than Harris right now). And Dallas would not have to give up as much to get Kidd (plus the Mavs can move Jerry Stackhouse).


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

That's really not that much different from the two trades being discussed. I don't think the Nets would trade Jefferson before Carter though, I don't think they'd want Terry over Harris, and the Mavericks aren't giving up Stackhouse unless he's bought out.


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## Redeemed (Feb 2, 2008)

Is it just me or is this trade a little too hyped up? Dallas has no athletic big men for Kidd to throw alley-oop lobs to, therefore it will be tough for him to make the type of impact the Mavs need him to. Him and Dirk aren't a really good fit either.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

DienerTime said:


> Is it just me or is this trade a little too hyped up? Dallas has no athletic big men for Kidd to throw alley-oop lobs to, therefore it will be tough for him to make the type of impact the Mavs need him to. Him and Dirk aren't a really good fit either.


It's not about throwing alley oops, moreso than that it's about getting players good looks to score. Harris and Terry weren't capable of doing that.

And people forget that when Dirk had Nash he had no problem playing off the ball. He has evolved his game, but it's not completely foreign to Dirk to be more of a dependent player.


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## Najee (Apr 5, 2007)

Dre™;5299267 said:


> That's really not that much different from the two trades being discussed. I don't think the Nets would trade Jefferson before Carter though, I don't think they'd want Terry over Harris, and the Mavericks aren't giving up Stackhouse unless he's bought out.


I believe it will be much harder to move Vince Carter given where he is in his career and his contract. I also don't feel New Jersey would trade Richard Jefferson, but I also don't believe Jefferson is quite as good as his numbers suggest this season.

The thing with Devin Harris is I don't see his upside as much more than what he has shown so far. In my scenario, I'm assuming that having Jason Terry and Jermaine O'Neal is better than having Harris, some spare parts and a pair of (likely) lower first-round picks. 

A Jerry Stackhouse buyout wouldn't be an issue, IMO, particularly if he is on a team with Jefferson, Danny Granger and Mike Dunleavy Jr.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

The Nets would probably want Harris because he's young and has the 'P' word attached to him.


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## HeaVINsent15 (Jul 13, 2007)

Najee said:


> Dallas is getting the player it wants while giving up less. Indiana removes itself of a huge contract and adds another young wing player. New Jersey actually gets a better mix of players than what's offered on the table.
> 
> We know my idea isn't going to happen (given the pending deal that New Jersey and Dallas have put together), but that would be a cleaner deal. As it is, New Jersey is getting a decent point guard in the mold of Doc Rivers, a few spare parts and likely a pair of late first-round picks.
> 
> I can't say that's a better deal than getting Jermaine O'Neal (provided he will be healthy enough in 2008-09) and Jason Terry (who IMO is better than Harris right now). And Dallas would not have to give up as much to get Kidd (plus the Mavs can move Jerry Stackhouse).


LOL what a horrible trade. Indiana gets a young wing? People need to wake up RJ is 28 years old hes in his prime. Dallas gives away Terry why would they part with him? And NJ takes on Terry? This trade si horrible for NJ and Dallas.


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## Najee (Apr 5, 2007)

Dre™ said:


> It's not about throwing alley oops, moreso than that it's about getting players good looks to score. Harris and Terry weren't capable of doing that.


The other aspects of Jason Kidd's game -- namely, he's more consistent than Jason Terry and Devin Harris, a stronger defender and a great rebounder for a point guard -- also make him attractive. Having Kidd would allow Terry more opportunities to play off the ball, where he is more comfortable. Kidd also has a propensity of making big plays when called, which is a little unusual given his shaky outside shooting.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

It's really not that different from the two Nets trades, just combines them and switches two players.


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## Najee (Apr 5, 2007)

HeaVINsent15 said:


> LOL what a horrible trade. Indiana gets a young wing? People need to wake up RJ is 28 years old hes in his prime. Dallas gives away Terry why would they part with him? And NJ takes on Terry? This trade si horrible for NJ and Dallas.


It's the same trade scenarios that have been discussed (Dallas and New Jersey; New Jersey and Indiana), only combined in one deal. Not to mention you contradict yourself on the Jason Terry asepct -- he's invaluable in Dallas, but yet it's terrible if he went to New Jersey?

And in most places in the world (including the NBA), a 27-year-old small forward (that's Richard Jefferson's age) is hardly old. I would imagine that's better than a proposed trade of Jermaine O'Neal for a 31-year-old (and more expensive) Vince Carter.


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## RX (May 24, 2006)

if this still goes thru, its still a bad deal for Dallas...this isn't going to put them over the hump and they ain't winning a championship with kidd


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

It makes us a better team.


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## Vuchato (Jan 14, 2006)

Essentially it gives the Nets Vince and Terry instead of RJ, Harris, Diop, Ager and a couple of picks. Considering the former would have very little chance of doing much, I'd rather just keep the younger guys instead. And rather keep Vince instead of JO anyway.


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## justasking? (Oct 1, 2005)

> This time, they mean it.
> 
> One hour after Rod Thorn groused over the way everybody had jumped the gun, he sent word to a team VP last night that the trade "appears to be a go."
> 
> The final hurdle was cleared at roughly 9 PM, when Keith Van Horn consented to sign a $4 million contract that makes the trade work financially and report to New Jersey for what is estimated to be 30 days of work.





> By 9 PM, Van Horn signed off -- or so we're told -- on what was believed to be a laundry list of league requirements - when he must report, how long he must stay with the team, and perhaps how often he must participate in practices.


http://www.nj.com/nets/


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

Roscoe Sheed said:


> It has been stated that Van Horn must maintain "a presence" with the Nets. *What exactly does that mean? Has McKie maintained "a presence" with Memphis?*


Yup. Memphis is using him almost as another assistant coach or a player-coach who doesn't play.

Curiously, he didn't make the trip to Philadelphia because of "personal reasons."


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## afobisme (Apr 29, 2006)

Rawse said:


> Yup. Memphis is using him almost as another assistant coach or a player-coach who doesn't play.
> 
> Curiously, he didn't make the trip to Philadelphia because of "personal reasons."


he should become the coach.. i mean, you got ivaroni as your coach, so it wouldn't hurt right?


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