# Realistic Vince Carter trade



## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

Vince Carter and Donyell Marshall

for 

Shareef, Travis Outlaw, Victor Kryapa, and a first round draft pick.

Portland gets their super (marketable) star guard for an expiring contract and and young prospects. Raptors fortify their team for the year but have their wing prospects in place for the future to go with (hopefully) 2 first rounders.

Vince's value isn't so high right now but I think this is a doable deal for both sides. What do you think?


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

This trade gives the Raps the competitive team for this season and tons of young depth. We lose Shareef but are left with a team mostly composed of rookie contract players to build with.

Alston/
Jalen/Khryapa
Mo Pete/Outlaw/Murray
Bosh/Bonner
Araujo/

With 2 first rounders I'd be happy with our prospects. I'd love to come out with a couple guys like Andrew Bogut and Rudy Fernandez. Room to manouever when Jalen's contract expires.

The Blazers, on the other hand, should be destined for the playoffs. 

Damon/Van Exel/Telfair
Vince/Anderson
Miles/Patterson
Randolph/Marshall
Ratliff/Przybilla

Can we do better? Does it work for both teams?


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## madman (Oct 20, 2003)

We cant trade Vince for cap space, if we do we are not going to be much better, who can we get in the FA market this summer? If we were to do it last summer was the perfect time to do it because people such as Kobe (i know we had no chance at him but an example) were available. This summer the only big name i can think of being a FA are Spree and Nene


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

For Toronto:

Offensively we could use Shareef in the low post (essentially playing the 4) where he is most effective. Defensively I don't know if he and Bosh can play together (can either guard the 3 spot?). Bosh has been getting burned by PF's way too much off the dribble this year.

Outlaw and Khryapa are both unknowns. Outlaw is only 20 and coincidentally has only played 20 minutes in 2 years. He could be ready to break out if he is for real. Khryapa is only 22 and hasn't played in the league yet. Is he injured or did they stash him overseas?

Both Outlaw and Khryapa are 6'9". Can either play the SG spot or are both SF's? I've never seen footage of either guy.

Both these guys would be like getting 1st round picks this summer because they are crapshoots just like any draft pick out of the top 5 would probably be.

Throw in the actual draft pick in this trade and its like getting 3 firsts for VC and Donny. Not bad. Plus the big expiring contract of Shareef so MLSE can definitely use the MLE again this summer without Luxury tax worries. That's an additional player from this trade.

It's fair for Toronto.


For Portland:

All depends what their strategy really is. Are they trying to contend or are they trying to just stay in the playoff hunt while rebuilding around Zack.

Zack, Telfair, Khryapa, Outlaw, Woods?, Monya, Miles is their young core. Would they mess with that? How many years can any team expect out of VC? Will he be done at 30 or play well to 35? Hard to say.

They have tons of expiring contracts. I think it was around 40-50 mill in expiring deals last time I checked.

They would clearly win the trade for this year and maybe next. I mean, those guys don't even play for them right now. But what is THE PLAN in Portland?


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

I can't see giving Yell up with Vince to get an expiring deal and a couple of unknowns.

Babcock has shown his desire to build in the now. I honestly think this trade could have been completed at any time from Portland's side.

Reef is redundant to them. 

I understand where you are going, but I think 

A) we will need to see teams in need of a shake up in order to deal for Vince. Portland's plan is unknown right now.

B) Babcock is not going to want expiring deals and youth. Babcock has shunned these deals until now. Why change that direction?


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

How do we know what deals Babs has shunned?

That's a pretty big assumption.

I look at this deal as 

3 first round picks this summer (2 used on Khryapa and Outlaw)
1 impact FA via the MLE 
12+ mill in cap space

That's not bad. I don't see MLSE using the MLE this offseason without clearing some salary first. You have to factor that extra player into the mix. And he would be a proven guy to get the full MLE.

It's risky, but not a bad gamble in my opinion.


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## Theberge43 (Nov 2, 2004)

I saw on http://www.hoopshype.com/rumors.htm
This :


> "There was a nearly half-empty arena for the home opener, so it's clear Carter's time in Toronto is over. Teams have been wary about dealing for him and his big contract. But with the Hornets sinking into desperation with a record 0-6 losing streak to start the season, a deal previously considered makes sense: Send Carter to New Orleans, where interest is waning fast, for Canadian Jamaal Magloire. On the court, it would push the athletic Chris Bosh to forward, where he belongs, and when Donyell Marshall returns from injury would give Toronto the toughness it needs to complement its talent." Chicago Tribune


I think it still makes sense, not cap wize, but Magloire would be great in TO and Vince Value is just going down from now it seems !


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>lucky777s</b>!
> How do we know what deals Babs has shunned?
> 
> That's a pretty big assumption.
> ...


Cuban inquired about VC. Did his inquiry include Dirk or Walker and youth a la Jason Terry-modified deal?

If this deal gets turned down, then in my mind expiring deals and some second-rate youth is not what Babs will take.

I'm not sure how you get 3 1sts. Portland selected the 2 CSKA boys and Bassy. Sorry if I'm missing something.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

Here's my trade idea. Haven't done one of these for a while!

Trade id. *1999753*
*To Toronto*: Shareef Abdul-Rahim, Jamal Mashburn, Jamaal Magloire, George Lynch.
*To New Orleans*: Vince Carter, Derek Anderson, Portland's 1st.
*To Portland*: Jalen Rose, Donyell Marshall, David Wesley.


*Why for Toronto?*
Toronto moves it's two biggest contracts and includes Marshall to do so. Vince goes out West, where he can't haunt us, and Rose goes to shooting guard-starved Portland along with Marsh's expiring deal. Toronto gets Mashburn, who could retire next year and void his contract. Or Mashburn could play, and when he does, he's one of the finer small forwards in the league in terms of passing and creating mismatches. Magloire comes home and the benefits to that are obvious. George Lynch is filler, but he is a tough vet who can help to protect our players. SAR is little more than an expiring contract, though he could aid in a playoff run taking over for Marsh's role. In all, Toronto moves it's biggest contracts and gets back a great centre, a big expiring contract, another big contract that is a risk, and filler.

*Why for New Orleans?*
B-Diddy and VC take-over the Big Easy. Those two would be explosive together and could create an identity for the Hornets. Aside from not playing, Mashburn has also demanded a trade, so moving him is a priority. They lose their centre (BYC player, difficult to trade following the CBA rules) in the process but they set their sights on the lottery (with potentially two top-10 picks), where there is gearing-up to be a few good big men (Perovic, Marty Vicious, Petro, etc.). They also get Derek Anderson, who isn't much of an upgrade over Wesley, but Derek and Vince are best friends and the chemistry there is apparent. In all, a quick rebuild could create a one or two year turnaround and make for an exciting, athletic, young, and promising team core.

*Why for Portland?*
They lose their extra forward and gain a shooting guard capable of creating for himself and for his team-mates. Rose is a big upgrade over Anderson, and with Allen's deep pockets his contract doesn't send them off a cliff. Portland also loses DA, who has been an underachiever and ensures there isn't a logjam at the off-guard position. Portland gains Marshall, a versatile forward who has a modest and expiring contract. He provides depth for them for the season, and could be a decent resign. Finally, Portland gains David Wesley, who has one more year on his contract, can play both guard positions, and provides some shooting accuracy on a team of erratic scorers.


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## Ballishere (May 24, 2003)

This is actually the best (both good for the raptors and realistic) trade for Vince Carter i have seen yet. Congrats

P.S. I Hope Toronto Trades Carter Soon!!


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

The only hitch I see, but only IMO, is that I don't see why Portland would want Jalen. I would think they stay the course regarding shedding salary. They would still be 5-8 million below next year if they do so.


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## djmyte (Jun 10, 2002)

Magloire is a solid option for obvious reasons. I'd also ask the Hornets to throw in JR Smith. He'd give the Raps more depth, athleticism and potential on the wing, which is something we don't have a lot of at the moment.


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

i'd go for a Magloire (a need), Smith (potential), Lynch (team player / defender) + fillers or pick for VC.


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## pspot (Jul 14, 2004)

check this out

Chicago trades: PG Ben Gordon (9.0 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 0.8 apg in 21.5 minutes) 
C Eddy Curry (11.5 ppg, 8.5 rpg, 0.0 apg in 28.5 minutes) 
PF Antonio Davis (6.0 ppg, 4.0 rpg, 1.5 apg in 14.0 minutes) 
Chicago receives: PG Baron Davis (24.6 ppg, 3.8 rpg, 8.0 apg in 37.0 minutes) 
SF George Lynch (6.0 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 3.3 apg in 26.7 minutes) 
PF Donyell Marshall (8.0 ppg, 4.6 rpg, 1.0 apg in 23.0 minutes) 
Change in team outlook: +12.1 ppg, -2.9 rpg, and +10.0 apg. 

New Orleans trades: PG Baron Davis (24.6 ppg, 3.8 rpg, 8.0 apg in 37.0 minutes) 
PF PJ Brown (8.0 ppg, 5.7 rpg, 1.5 apg in 33.3 minutes) 
C Jamaal Magloire (13.5 ppg, 9.0 rpg, 1.7 apg in 31.8 minutes) 
SF George Lynch (6.0 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 3.3 apg in 26.7 minutes) 
New Orleans receives: C Eddy Curry (11.5 ppg, 8.5 rpg, 0.0 apg in 28.5 minutes) 
PF Antonio Davis (6.0 ppg, 4.0 rpg, 1.5 apg in 14.0 minutes) 
SF Vince Carter (14.3 ppg, 3.7 rpg, 4.0 apg in 29.4 minutes) 
Change in team outlook: -20.3 ppg, -5.5 rpg, and -9.0 apg. 

Toronto trades: SF Vince Carter (14.3 ppg, 3.7 rpg, 4.0 apg in 29.4 minutes) 
PF Donyell Marshall (8.0 ppg, 4.6 rpg, 1.0 apg in 23.0 minutes) 
Toronto receives: PG Ben Gordon (9.0 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 0.8 apg in 21.5 minutes) 
PF PJ Brown (8.0 ppg, 5.7 rpg, 1.5 apg in 33.3 minutes) 
C Jamaal Magloire (13.5 ppg, 9.0 rpg, 1.7 apg in 31.8 minutes) 
Change in team outlook: +8.2 ppg, +8.4 rpg, and -1.0 apg. 

TRADE ACCEPTED

The only problem i see, is it is kind of a week trade for Chicago, but from what ive heard Gordans value has dropped so maybe not
What do you think?


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## McFurious (Mar 25, 2004)

New Orleans trades:
C Jamaal Magloire (13.5 ppg, 9.0 rpg, 1.7 apg in 31.8 minutes) 
PG Baron Davis (24.6 ppg, 3.8 rpg, 8.0 apg in 37.0 minutes) 

New Orleans receives: 
PF Donyell Marshall (8.0 ppg, 4.6 rpg, 1.0 apg in 23.0 minutes) 
SF Vince Carter (14.3 ppg, 3.7 rpg, 4.0 apg in 29.4 minutes) 
Change in team outlook: -15.8 ppg, -4.5 rpg, and -4.7 apg. 

Toronto trades: 
PF Donyell Marshall (8.0 ppg, 4.6 rpg, 1.0 apg in 23.0 minutes) 
SF Vince Carter (14.3 ppg, 3.7 rpg, 4.0 apg in 29.4 minutes) 

Toronto receives: 
C Jamaal Magloire (13.5 ppg, 9.0 rpg, 1.7 apg in 31.8 minutes) 
PG Baron Davis (24.6 ppg, 3.8 rpg, 8.0 apg in 37.0 minutes) 
Change in team outlook: +15.8 ppg, +4.5 rpg, and +4.7 apg. 

TRADE ACCEPTED

We need a Baron Dais on this team real bad. We have no one
to backup Alston. And if Alston gets injuired were screw at the point. Throw in a first rounder and NewOrleans bites.. done deal where do I sign. Get Carter out of T.O Babcock before his trade value hit rock bottom.


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## pspot (Jul 14, 2004)

^ you really think NO would go for that deal, i guess if we threw in a 1st or Araujo
man that would be a sweet deal for us i would love that deal
but we would have 4 Centers, but that would be a good problem to have, Bonner has been great as the backup PF


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## SteveHartfiel (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>McFurious</b>!
> New Orleans trades:
> C Jamaal Magloire (13.5 ppg, 9.0 rpg, 1.7 apg in 31.8 minutes)
> PG Baron Davis (24.6 ppg, 3.8 rpg, 8.0 apg in 37.0 minutes)
> ...


Davis would back up Alston? Im as impressed as anyone with Rafer but please... and if the new orleans hornets ever did this trade they would not doubt be the laughing stock of the nba. It would be difficult to pry Magloire ALONE for Vince from the hornets, but to add donyell marshall and expect baron davis is just ridiculous...dont mean to bash your idea buddy, i just see it as completely one sided and unattainable.


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## runbmg (May 25, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>SkywalkerAC</b>!
> Vince Carter and Donyell Marshall
> 
> for
> ...


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

Yes, this trade is pretty much Vince and Yell for 3 first rounders and an MLE free agent. Vince SHOULD be worth more but I don't see him escalating his trade value as I'd hoped for. 

As for Khryapa, he's gaining valuable experience in europe but maybe Monya is the way to go, who, I think, is more of a shooting guard. Outlaw's a freak and could be ready to contribute before his rookie contract is up. 

Reef is little more than an expiring contract, though I do think he'd make a fine addition to the starting lineup at the 3 spot. I'd be more worried that his drive to make playoffs would rob us of our lotto pick. 

Looking around the league it's obvious that you win by building around young talent that fits into your system. You need talent depth, athleticism, and defense. 

Of all the teams in the league, Portland looks like the most likely trading partner to me. Are they going to get better players (than VC) on the free agent market? Can they afford to give up some of their young talent?

Portland wants to get back to the playoffs in the worst way and win back their fan base. They need a star player with a good attitude. Although we haven't seen the best of VC lately, I think we know he's a good guy and one that wants to win. He should still be a fan draw. However, I don't think their pick would be too low, even were they to make playoffs. 

It's the best I can come up with right now.


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## SteveHartfiel (Jun 8, 2003)

As we all knwo Isaih Thomas literally loves Vince Carter, likely wants to bare his children so why not seriously look into the knicks as a possible partner.. If Vince can start to play better and pick up his game (which I think he will) then I could see this happening


Tim Thomas
Trevor Ariza
Sweetney

for 

VC
Moiso
mabye a pick but I doubt it woudl even need to go that far


what do you guys think about that one??... the benfits for both teams are obvious...


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## CrookedJ (May 8, 2003)

I still like GS as a trading partner - 

Toronto trades: SF Vince Carter (14.3 ppg, 3.7 rpg, 4.0 apg in 29.4 minutes) 
PG Milt Palacio (5.1 ppg, 1.1 rpg, 2.6 apg in 15.0 minutes) 

Toronto receives: PF Clifford Robinson (3.9 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 0.3 apg in 17.4 minutes) 
SF Mike Dunleavy (13.1 ppg, 5.1 rpg, 3.1 apg in 33.0 minutes) 
PG Speedy Claxton (8.7 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 4.2 apg in 27.5 minutes) 
Change in team outlook: +6.3 ppg, +4.6 rpg, and +1.0 apg. 

Golden State trades: PF Clifford Robinson (3.9 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 0.3 apg in 17.4 minutes) 
SF Mike Dunleavy (13.1 ppg, 5.1 rpg, 3.1 apg in 33.0 minutes) 
PG Speedy Claxton (8.7 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 4.2 apg in 27.5 minutes) 

Golden State receives: SF Vince Carter (14.3 ppg, 3.7 rpg, 4.0 apg in 29.4 minutes) 
PG Milt Palacio (5.1 ppg, 1.1 rpg, 2.6 apg in 15.0 minutes) 
Change in team outlook: -6.3 ppg, -4.6 rpg, and -1.0 apg. 

TRADE ACCEPTED


Palacio is really only in there to give GS a back up PG after Claxton is gone. WE get a good (almost starting quality PG) and a good SF in Dunleavy. Expiring contract in Cliffy.

At this point he just has to go. We're playing our best without him on the floor, he's not just a none factor he's HURTING the team. He acknowledges that he's not really trying. During the Seattle game he was practically crying out there


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## pspot (Jul 14, 2004)

Honestly the Knicks dont have much the only guy i would even think about would be Crawford and thats not going to happen
Thomas heading down bust lane
Sweetney is overrated 
Only deal i would take for Carter is Crawford and 2 firsts, and that aint going to happen
Let Thomas want Carter all he wants, that makes even better that he wont get what he wants


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>SteveHartfiel</b>!
> As we all knwo Isaih Thomas literally loves Vince Carter, likely wants to bare his children so why not seriously look into the knicks as a possible partner.. If Vince can start to play better and pick up his game (which I think he will) then I could see this happening
> 
> 
> ...


zeke might want Vince but the knicks don't need him, esecially with Allen Houston coming back at some point. They do need Sweetney though, and apparently like him a lot. Do not have the young talent or draft picks that I think we need.


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## SteveHartfiel (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>SkywalkerAC</b>!
> 
> 
> zeke might want Vince but the knicks don't need him, esecially with Allen Houston coming back at some point. They do need Sweetney though, and apparently like him a lot. Do not have the young talent or draft picks that I think we need.


Allan Houstan is in worse condition then Vince, I would assume the knicks do really want Vince as him and marbury would play well together. As far as young talent Sweetney and Ariza I guess cant be considered young but both look to be in great shape.. Ariza is doing what Vince is supposed to be doing... driving constantly and throwing it down.. In my opinion New York seriously considers this trade if it were ever presented.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>CrookedJ</b>!
> I still like GS as a trading partner -
> 
> Toronto trades: SF Vince Carter (14.3 ppg, 3.7 rpg, 4.0 apg in 29.4 minutes)
> ...


I guess Golden State is a team trying to reach that next level that has the trade pieces to play with. The problem is that Dunleavy and Speedy would have to be extended after next season. I might prefer Pietrus.


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## firstrounder (Oct 31, 2004)

Toronto trades: C Loren Woods (6.9 ppg, 7.3 rpg, 0.7 apg in 20.3 minutes) 
PF Donyell Marshall (8.0 ppg, 4.6 rpg, 1.0 apg in 23.0 minutes) 
SF Vince Carter (14.3 ppg, 3.7 rpg, 4.0 apg in 29.4 minutes) 
2005 2nd round draft pick 
Toronto receives: C Jake Voskuhl (1.8 ppg, 4.0 rpg, 0.8 apg in 13.6 minutes) 
SG Joe Johnson (18.2 ppg, 3.7 rpg, 2.2 apg in 35.5 minutes) 
SF Shawn Marion (16.2 ppg, 10.8 rpg, 2.5 apg in 36.7 minutes) 
Change in team outlook: +7.0 ppg, +2.9 rpg, and -0.2 apg. 

Phoenix trades: C Jake Voskuhl (1.8 ppg, 4.0 rpg, 0.8 apg in 13.6 minutes) 
SG Joe Johnson (18.2 ppg, 3.7 rpg, 2.2 apg in 35.5 minutes) 
SF Shawn Marion (16.2 ppg, 10.8 rpg, 2.5 apg in 36.7 minutes) 
Phoenix receives: C Loren Woods (6.9 ppg, 7.3 rpg, 0.7 apg in 20.3 minutes) 
PF Donyell Marshall (8.0 ppg, 4.6 rpg, 1.0 apg in 23.0 minutes) 
SF Vince Carter (14.3 ppg, 3.7 rpg, 4.0 apg in 29.4 minutes) 
2005 2nd round draft pick 
Change in team outlook: -7.0 ppg, -2.9 rpg, and +0.2 apg. 



How's this for a trade idea? Right now Phoenix doesnt even have a true Centre starting right now...heck Marion has been having to play some C in Phoenix... 

Now they would upgrade SG...Marshall is a big SF for them, and he and Amare and Woods make a big frontcourt. 

Phoenix current lineup: 

PG-Nash 
SG-Johnson 
SF-QRich 
PF-Amare/Marion 
C-Marion/Amare 

Lineups after trade 

Phoenix 
PG-Nash 
SG-Carter 
SF-QRich/Marshall 
PF-Amare/Marshall 
C-Woods 
*Phoenix now has Marshall coming off the bench as opposed to Casey Jacobson, who is currently their 6th man. They gain more depth, PLUS they get a future 2nd rounder. 

Toronto: 
PG-Alston 
SG-Johnson 
SF- Marion 
PF- Bosh 
C-Voskul/Hoffa 


We could still run and gun with Marion and Johnson, and Carter could still run and gun in Phoenix


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

Phoenix wouldn't do that deal. Woods isn't much better than Voshkul, Marshall doesn't have a lot of value, Vince has excelled in our running game, and Phoenix have been tearing it up with their current lineup. 

I still think Jerry West could be interested but that would require a sign and trade for Stro Swift IMO.


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## Junkyard Dog13 (Aug 9, 2003)

I like the Hornets deal

Davis would start at SG, if aqquired.

PG Alston
SG Davis
SM Rose
PF Bosh
C Magoliore


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

to PHO:
Vince Carter
Jerome Moiso
Milt Palacio 

to TOR:
Joe Johnson
Leandrinho Barbosa
Jake Voskuhl

WHY? We gain a young guy to replace Vince in our lineup in Joe Johnson, and another young guard who both have shown much promise. We also get a vet centre who can step in until Hoffa is ready. Don't know if Phoenix would ruin a good thing with a trade like this though.


to LAC:
Vince Carter
Roger Mason
Brian Cook

to LAL:
Chris Wilcox
Milt Palacio

to TOR:
Kerry Kittles
Caron Butler
Shaun Livingston

WHY? Kittles is a 9 million dollar expiring contract.. and Caron Butler has lots of potential and looks to be a star in the making. And of course we get the gem of the deal, Shaun Livingston.. who the Clippers might be reluctant to deal because this trade might late bite them in the ***.


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## djmyte (Jun 10, 2002)

Just for fun...


To Det :

Vince
Moiso 


To Tor:

Prince
Milicic
Campbell
Coleman


Trade actually works salary wise. 


The breakdown...

- Brown has always liked and supported Vince.
- Detroit is one of the favorites to win it all this year so you'd have to think that adding a player that can make big shots and single handedly win you games would be appealing.
- Darko doesn't appear to be in Det's immediate plans(for winning another title)

- Tor gets a 7 footer with huge potential.
- Tor also gets a pretty good player in Prince, who can score and play defense.
- Campbell and Coleman add some beef and experience.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

I'd love to get Darko but I don't know if Dumars is ready to give up on him yet. Matching offers for guys like Darko (after two more years of development) Detroit's going to keep him for pretty cheap.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

So, do you guys like my trade or not? It wasn't really supposed to be a trade suggestion thread. I want discussion about what we want for this team. Is this too little? Do we need this young depth at the 2 and 3?


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>blowuptheraptors</b>!
> 
> 
> Cuban inquired about VC. Did his inquiry include Dirk or Walker and youth a la Jason Terry-modified deal?
> ...


The 3 firsts are Outlaw (being a highschooler he hasn't played), one of the Russians (will both be rookies next season)- I guess Monya is more of a SG, and their 2005 first round pick (as far as I know they still have one). 

I don't really think that Babcock is only concerned with the now. I don't think he's all that enamoured with the "star" players that are up for grabs. I think Babcock wants a deep team that plays team ball and doesn't have bad contracts holding us back.

While, if this deal went through, we'd have Outlaw, Monya, Bosh, Araujo, Sow, Bonner, and two 2005 first rounders on rookie contracts, I think we could get professional play out of them. These are young guys that can be developed in Mitchell's system. Running, defending, hustling, etc. 

I don't think we're ready to compete right now. Babcock has some time in which to shape and develop this team for Mitchell. Young prospects and draft picks, that's what I want. Maybe this isn't asking for enough but it seems like a deal that Portland would make and Babcock should consider. 

Who else has the salary fodder and young prospects to tempt us?


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

Sorry, on a bit of a trade VC to Portland kick here.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

The more I think of it, the more I think this is the most likely deal. Portland is the team that will be trying to move into the upper echelon of the West, rekindle their franchise, and make the playoffs. They have the resources to make it work too.

Nash is going to be moving Reef and Damon, two huge expiring contracts to put a true team together. The Russians were drafted as trade fodder, as they will be euro-experienced players whose inactivated contracts make them the perfect addition to such large ones. 

Word is that Nash will likely be pursuing Jason Kidd and either Ray Allen or Vince Carter. Ray Allen has increased his trade value while VC has decreased his but they bring pretty much the same thing to the table. Ray Allen needs to be resigned, Vince Carter does not. I'm not sure Seattle would be so interested with the Ruskies and such, some might argue we shouldn't be either but I think we're lighter on wing prospects while Seattle needs to find a big man somewhere. 

Free agency is a lost cause for this team, we aren't going to achieve that level of rebuilding. We need to build our run and gun team around Bosh and Rafer, the new Nash and Dirk. This team needs another vet (i'm not even sure the position we need him at but we need him) and the remainder of the roster should be stacked with youth that can play the right way (aka Mitchell's way).

Can we do better? Maybe we can but I think Babcock and Nash are actually going to be talking about this deal.

Keep Vince (disgruntled or no) till the trade deadline for this deal or anything great that comes along. If worst comes to worst, keep him till draft night. Keeping him, after all, might result in a higher pick...who knows.

What I do know is that a Portland team starting 

Kidd
Carter
Miles
Randolph
Ratliff

should be a contender. Twould be a nice place for VC to jumpstart his fading career. 

Might seem a little farfetched but you never know what these teams will do with their disinterested star players.


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## John (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>SkywalkerAC</b>!
> So, do you guys like my trade or not? It wasn't really supposed to be a trade suggestion thread. I want discussion about what we want for this team. Is this too little? Do we need this young depth at the 2 and 3?


I wish u are still a mod, I bet if you are still one, you wouldnt come up with stupid question like "So, do u guys like my trade or not?"


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## firstrounder (Oct 31, 2004)

thats nice John.


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## John (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>firstrounder</b>!
> thats nice John.


Well, if u ask me, I dont like you since your fanhome days. I wish seriously if I have the power, I would not allow u to post here.


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## pspot (Jul 14, 2004)

I said this before and got burned but ill say it again
After Dec 15th Trade 

Orlando trades: C Kelvin Cato (6.8 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 0.8 apg in 24.0 minutes) 
Hidayet Turkoglu (No games yet played in 2004/05) 
Orlando receives: SF Vince Carter (14.3 ppg, 3.7 rpg, 4.0 apg in 29.4 minutes) 
Change in team outlook: +7.5 ppg, -2.8 rpg, and +3.2 apg. 
Magic 1st rnd

Toronto trades: SF Vince Carter (14.3 ppg, 3.7 rpg, 4.0 apg in 29.4 minutes) 
Toronto receives: C Kelvin Cato (6.8 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 0.8 apg in 24.0 minutes) 
Hidayet Turkoglu (No games yet played in 2004/05) 
Change in team outlook: -7.5 ppg, +2.8 rpg, and -3.2 apg. 

TRADE ACCEPTED


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

The thing we all have to keep in mind with these bigger multi-player deals is that the Raps are carrying the full 15 on their roster.

So for every extra player we take back in trade we need to cut somebody. And MLSE would have to eat those contracts.

Obviously MasonJr and Moiso would be first to go. But after that we start cutting bone.

Did anyone mention Detroit as a possible partner?

Darko
Delfino
and a contract like Coleman or Campbell
plus cash

for

VC
Moiso and/or MasonJr


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## djmyte (Jun 10, 2002)

> Did anyone mention Detroit as a possible partner?


Yes. Infact the trade that was suggested was eerily similar to yours.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

Easy one...

Trade id. *2002219*.
*To Toronto*: Corey Maggette, Kerry Kittles, Bobby Simmons.
*To LA Clippers*: Vince Carter, Alvin Williams.

Doesn't get much simpler than that.


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## EBP2K2 (Jun 23, 2003)

getting Maggette in return for VC will be tough IMO, but I can picture Maggette fitting in really well with rest of the Raps roster... finally a swingman who will drive to the bucket... and FINISH...

of course if Rose were to keep playing like he did during the 4th quarter of the last game, then trading for a big body makes more sense...


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>speedythief</b>!
> Easy one...
> 
> Trade id. *2002219*.
> ...


Easy, yes. Realistic, no.


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>speedythief</b>!
> Easy one...
> 
> Trade id. *2002219*.
> ...


i'd LOVE to see that happen. i think you underrate kittles and simmons in this trade though, and i don't think clips would want to eat alvins contract at all.


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## pspot (Jul 14, 2004)

I can see the Raps making a move before Dec 15th,
After that most players will be available and they will have a better idea of where they are at and what the team really needs

and
after last night, i couldnt see the Clips even trading Maggette straight up for Carter, so that deal aint going to happen
would love to see it though, that guy goes to the bucket hard


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## pspot (Jul 14, 2004)

^ thats supposed to be "Can't" not Can sorry


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>pspot</b>!
> ^ thats supposed to be "Can't" not Can sorry


You know you can just use the "edit" button...


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## Junkyard Dog13 (Aug 9, 2003)

Allen/Peja/Artest are guys I would want in a 1-1 swap.

Don't about Donyall.


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## CrookedJ (May 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Junkyard Dog13</b>!
> Allen/Peja/Artest are guys I would want in a 1-1 swap.
> 
> Don't about Donyall.


Only Allen can be a 1 for 1 - Artest and Peja both make about half of Vince salary.

Talent Wise I would take any of the three in this order:
RayRay
Peja
Artest (Whackjob)


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## pspot (Jul 14, 2004)

After watching KM destroy us in the paint last night i think this trade would work nicely

New Orleans trades: C Jamaal Magloire (13.5 ppg, 9.0 rpg, 1.7 apg in 31.8 minutes) 
PF PJ Brown (8.0 ppg, 5.7 rpg, 1.5 apg in 33.3 minutes) 
Jamal Mashburn (No games yet played in 2004/05) 
SF George Lynch (6.0 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 3.3 apg in 26.7 minutes) 
New Orleans receives: SF Vince Carter (15.1 ppg, 3.9 rpg, 3.5 apg in 29.0 minutes) 
Alvin Williams (No games yet played in 2004/05) 
PF Donyell Marshall (8.0 ppg, 4.6 rpg, 1.0 apg in 23.0 minutes) 
PF Jerome Moiso (1.5 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 0.0 apg in 9.5 minutes) 
Change in team outlook: -2.9 ppg, -6.4 rpg, and -2.0 apg. 

Toronto trades: SF Vince Carter (15.1 ppg, 3.9 rpg, 3.5 apg in 29.0 minutes) 
Alvin Williams (No games yet played in 2004/05) 
PF Donyell Marshall (8.0 ppg, 4.6 rpg, 1.0 apg in 23.0 minutes) 
PF Jerome Moiso (1.5 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 0.0 apg in 9.5 minutes) 
Toronto receives: C Jamaal Magloire (13.5 ppg, 9.0 rpg, 1.7 apg in 31.8 minutes) 
PF PJ Brown (8.0 ppg, 5.7 rpg, 1.5 apg in 33.3 minutes) 
Jamal Mashburn (No games yet played in 2004/05) 
SF George Lynch (6.0 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 3.3 apg in 26.7 minutes) 
Change in team outlook: +2.9 ppg, +6.4 rpg, and +2.0 apg. 

TRADE ACCEPTED


Why?
1) Carter for Magloire, Magloire is worth more , so TO needs to make that up with thre rest of the trade.
how
1) Two bad contracts Mash for Williams, the hornets at least get out of around 4mil a year by swapping contracts. and of the two players i think Williams has the better chance at actually returning, which isnt much of one at that

2) Getting Marshall for Brown, NO is getting a younger, more offensive PF. not a gaurenteed contract so that might be an issue

3) Moiso for Lynch, again NO gets younger, and with the lose up front they will need the size, if Moiso can show he can play some minutes that would definetely help. TO is getting a player who can play behind MoPete starting at SG and Rose Starting at SF, that leaves Murray and Lynch as the back ups, which isnt great but its not that bad either. We do end up with a solid defensive backcourt. 

My concerns for TO would be, its one huge deal, trading all your peices at once. So if its a miss your f'd. but go big or go home, Bosh and Magloire would be sick for years to come, and Rafer, Rose and MoPete have proven to be solid outside threats. 
I would do this deal 

so what do you think?
Does TO do it?
DOes NO do it?


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

An interesting idea. Not sure I like any trade that moves Donny and VC together.

Would like to move Donny separately to a contender at the trade deadline for draft picks or a young guy with big upside that hasn't gotten a chance.

Really the Raps only get one piece out of the trade and that is Magloire.


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## pspot (Jul 14, 2004)

Ya I had the same issue, but if we wait to long we might not get anything. 
I guess it comes down to 
how good is Magloire really

and how much do other teams value Marshall, without a contract i dont see other teams giving up to much of their future for him, so we really wouldnt get a decent pick or prospect in the end. Bonner has been solid which really helps this deal

and there is always the chance Mash could come back, but when you start hoping for stuff like that, its like going to the Casino to make money

If you look at the starting 5 after the deal, the deal is actually pretty good for both teams

Before After 
NO 
Davis -- Davis 
Wesely -- Wesely 
Lynch -- Carter 
Brown -- Marshall 
Magloire -- Moiso 


Before After
TO
Alston -- Alston
Carter -- MoPete
Rose -- Rose
Bosh -- Bosh
Woods -- Magloire


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>SkywalkerAC</b>!
> 
> Nash is going to be moving Reef and Damon, two huge expiring contracts to put a true team together. The Russians were drafted as trade fodder, as they will be euro-experienced players whose inactivated contracts make them the perfect addition to such large ones.
> 
> Word is that Nash will likely be pursuing Jason Kidd and either Ray Allen or Vince Carter. Ray Allen has increased his trade value while VC has decreased his but they bring pretty much the same thing to the table. Ray Allen needs to be resigned, Vince Carter does not. I'm not sure Seattle would be so interested with the Ruskies and such, some might argue we shouldn't be either but I think we're lighter on wing prospects while Seattle needs to find a big man somewhere.


I wonder if Seattle will entertain offers for Ray given the start he and the team have made?

Damon, Reef and Van Exel (Team option) all have expiring deals. Technically, They could trade one of the PGs, futures/prospects and fodder for Kidd and still trade the remaining 2 for VC and Rose.

That gives us some nice cap room plus, room for another MLE, 1 Russian and maybe a pick.

Although, the FA crop in 2005 is less than stellar.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>blowuptheraptors</b>!
> 
> 
> I wonder if Seattle will entertain offers for Ray given the start he and the team have made?
> ...


It looks like that's exactly what they're thinking of doing.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>blowuptheraptors</b>!
> 
> 
> I wonder if Seattle will entertain offers for Ray given the start he and the team have made?
> ...


I swear this was before I heard the rumor on the radio.


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

First the road trip prediction, now this??

You must have a time machine or something. Come back here and torture us with your knowledge of the future.

Can I get the lotto numbers for Saturday? Please!

Or just let me know whether I should buy more FCP on the TSX at these prices. What is the price they will get bought out at?


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

:laugh:


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## CrookedJ (May 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>blowuptheraptors</b>!
> :laugh:


No seriously, tell us when this trade will be completed and what the final players will be.


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## pspot (Jul 14, 2004)

Please predict a trade where TO ends up with Magloire or Ray Allen
thanks


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>pspot</b>!
> Please predict a trade where TO ends up with Magloire or Ray Allen
> thanks


How about both? J/K.

No, I did not predict the deal, I was just saying how it would be feasible to do a 2 for 2 with Toronto and still have the expiring deal to ship to the Nets for Kidd.

My prediction is that the Portland deal if it happens will not include DA. If he is included, there will be at least 2 sweeteners. 

But I get a feeling that there are a lot of discussions that we do not know due to this proposed deal.

Example: Man Utd wanted to buy a kid named Rooney next summer for a discounted rate, a year before the end of his deal. However, this summer, Newcastle United stepped in with a 20 million pound offer, forcing Man Utd to come up with a competitve offer. They got him

This potential Portland deal will force anyone else who was holding out for a real discount on Vince to come up with their best offer. 

Chance of the Portland deal, 50%.


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## pspot (Jul 14, 2004)

Ya for as much as a Portland deal without DA would make sense i am thinking and hoping that its going to light a fire under other teams and we get another deal which works to make this team better now and positioned better for the future.


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## djmyte (Jun 10, 2002)

A team that I would like Toronto to talk to is Washington. They have a lot of young talent and could have interest in acquiring Vince. Something involving Kwame Brown and Larry Hughes for Vince. 

Washington's potential lineup...

C - Haywood
Pf - Jamison
Sf - Hayes
Sg - Vince
Pg - Arenas

Have to think Vince and Jamison would love playing together again. Would give Washington 3 guys that can light it up at any time which should attract a fair amount of fan interest(at least you'd think it should).

As for Toronto...

C - Brown
Pf - Bosh
Sf - Rose
Sg - Hughes
Pg - Alston

Young team with good athleticism...perfect for running. I know Brown is injured so the deal would probably have to be done at a later date but our front court would be set for the next 10-12 years.


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

Toronto Trades: Vince Carter
Chicago Trades: Eddy Curry, Ben Gordon, filler


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## Sánchez AF (Aug 10, 2003)

I dont understand the logic of some guys

someones think WTF vince is playing Crap only a 14 ppg guy but they want Corey Maggette or Shaw Marion  or want SAR NVE Sergei Outlaw and a pick ? not gonna happen


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>SpeakerBoxxX</b>!
> I dont understand the logic of some guys
> 
> someones think WTF vince is playing Crap only a 14 ppg guy but they want Corey Maggette or Shaw Marion  or want SAR NVE Sergei Outlaw and a pick ? not gonna happen


Why would you even bring up Marion and Maggette, both of whom have gotten off to fast starts, and are consistent when taking it hard to the rack.. and both leave it out on the floor.

And with SAR, NVE, and a young guy.. we wouldn't be that much worse than now, some would say we would be better. And we would have a lot of capspace next summer, and some young talent to build around.

How many times do people have to explain things to you about Vince?


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## Sánchez AF (Aug 10, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>hellbot</b>!
> 
> 
> Why would you even bring up Marion and Maggette, both of whom have gotten off to fast starts, and are consistent when taking it hard to the rack.. and both leave it out on the floor.
> ...


I dont know what you talking about i just put some ideas of other posters (Marion and Corey ideas)


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