# "Playoff Experience"



## firstrounder (Oct 31, 2004)

Everyone always talks about it, I just don't get it...someone help me out.

All of these guys have played basketball all their lives, on high school teams that no doubt won championships, colleges that played in March Madness tourneys, European League playoffs, etc.

These guys shouldn't need to relearn the game in the playoffs, and they shouldnt be buckling under all the increased "pressure".

Its not like they are you and me with no experience. These guys have played in "big games" all their lives, and they suceeded, otherwise they wouldnt be in the NBA today. They've been surrounded by pressure their entire career!

So why do we always use the lack of playoff experience excuse?

Sure this team lacks NBA playoff experience, but it has a wealth of playoff and big game experience at other high levels of play. That should translate over shouldn't it?

If they couldnt handle the pressure of the big game, how could they handle playing in front of scouts etc before they were drafted?

I dont get it. Someone help me out.


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## chocolove (Apr 4, 2006)

Well, I guess everyone gets nervous when its the first time of something, even though they have a wealth of big game experience its the first time in the playoffs for a lot of them. Thats the only argument i can think of but what you said makes a lot of sense.


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## firstrounder (Oct 31, 2004)

thx


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## nets1 (Sep 27, 2002)

there is a big difference and only experience can help. In the playoffs the great players really step up their games. The intensity of the game almost doubles. EVERY POSSESSION COUNTS!!! The flow of the games are controlled by the coaches much more. 

During the regular season a team may play another 2 times in a row only once during the season. Like the nets did against washington near the end of the season. During the playoffs you see the same team up to 7 times in a row. You get to know the team real well then, and the coaches have to shine. Nothing like regular season. 

During the regular season if you have a bad game you got 81 more games to make it up. In the playoffs you can't afford a bad game, you can't afford a bad quarter, and you can't afford a major injury. Intensity is stepped way up, and players like Jason Kidd understand that and will exploit that as much as they can. Also, a young team like the raps have to learn how to get the killer instinct and learn how to put a team away. Thats not as easy as it sounds since the other team doesn't want to go home for the summer. 

I hope this helps...

Oh yeah, go nets!!!!!


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## firstrounder (Oct 31, 2004)

so in March Madness the great players don't step up their games?

In the European Championships, every possession doesnt count?

Coaches aren't as important in March Madness and Euroleague playoffs as in NBA?

I find this hard to believe.

I understand what you are saying, that the NBA playoffs are tougher than regular seaosn, but you fail to explain how the NBA playoffs are any more intense/pressure filled than March Madness or European playoffs.

You missed the point of the thread. Its not trying to compare regular season to playoffs. I'm saying that all of these players have played in similar pressure situations before at in a playoff environment at other stages in their career. (Euroleague, March madness)

Therefore, they shouldnt crack under NBA playoff pressure.


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## jerkstore (Nov 3, 2006)

NBA Speed in itself is different than Collage or Euro. Playoffs are another curveball.


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## firstrounder (Oct 31, 2004)

Anthony Parker hasnt seemed to have had to make much of an adjustment then has he?


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## NeoSamurai (Jan 16, 2003)

the NBA is the culmination of a lifetime's work...this is the biggest stage for them and they are on the verge of history...for some, they are able to perform and overcome the pressure and nerves one might have like Jordan, Reggie Miller, Bird, and Magic - thats why theyre legends in this sport...

others not quite so...i guess it all matters upon the individual and their maturity level...


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## narrator (Feb 11, 2006)

nets1 said:


> EVERY POSSESSION COUNTS!!!


Just like every other basketball game in the history of the world. "Playoff experience" is overrated. The only thing that changes things in the playoffs is that you (a) see the same team up to 7 times in a row; and (b) have to deal with glory hog refs.


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## firstrounder (Oct 31, 2004)

NeoSamurai said:


> the NBA is the culmination of a lifetime's work...this is the biggest stage for them and they are on the verge of history].


When Parker was in the Euroleague finals, would you not say that at that point of his life it was the culmination of a lifetimes work?

When guys like Dixon etc won a National championship, would you not think that was a similar pressure environment?


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## nets1 (Sep 27, 2002)

look at the players from duke, always in championship games but never do that well in the nba. America watches march madness, the world watches nba finals. Big difference.

The raps have faced the nets many times now in regular season. They have faced Jason Kidd and RJ and VC many times. But they have never faced them in the playoffs, and do you see how they play differently? The raps so far are playing like its a very important regular season game, while the nets are playing like its a playoff game. The tempo is different, more dilerbrate, better passing, and much more intense defense.


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## firstrounder (Oct 31, 2004)

> America watches march madness, the world watches nba finals. Big difference.


I disagree about the big difference in pressure from March Madness to NBA.

March Madness is SINGLE GAME ELIMINATION. One bad game and you are out.

Those kids are playing for their NBA draft position...the tournament makes or breaks some guys chances to make the NBA. You talk about pressure THATS pressure. In contrast the NBA playoffs are best of 7 - there is not the pressure of 1 game as there is in March Madness.

Plus, the final 4 of the March Madness is probably more watched than most of the NBA playoffs series, so its not like they are nervous being on national TV.


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## nets1 (Sep 27, 2002)

I remember watching a playoff game about 6 years ago that proves my point. It was Jason Williams rookie year and the Kings were playing in the playoffs. Don't hold me to the exact facts here but i believe it was like against the Jazz when they had malone and stockton. The Jazz were the favorites and the kings were just starting to be good. Jason Williams was playing out his *** until they reached game 5 and the pressure was really on. The kings had a chance to upset a major favorite , then the pressure of game 5 Williams faded away. He just disappeared. Wasn't great defense of the Jazz, or stockston, he just lost his confidence, or choked or whatever. Thats the difference.


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## firstrounder (Oct 31, 2004)

How is that proof? You said yourself he was kicking butt for the 1st 4 games, how could he do that without "experience"

Maybe he was just due for a bad game...bottom line is Williams playing good in 4 of 5 playoff games in his rookie year does not prove your point.

Please, answer me how an NBA best of 7 playoff game is more pressure than a March Madness single elimination game where your draft stock is on the line.


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## nets1 (Sep 27, 2002)

because another thing about the playoffs is each game the pressure level increases. Just like the level changed from game 2 to game 3 in our series. Wait till you see the pressure in game 4, then 5. Younger inexperienced players will eventually fold to the pressure. Experienced players will move on.

Game one the nets came in and controlled the game from the get go like an experienced team should. The fact that they did it on the road was big. Game 2 they played well but the last minute shots did'nt fall and the raps made the foul shots. OK, the raps won, but you really lost becasue your supposed to hold court. Game 3 you saw the nets step it up even more, and you guys looked confused and played like a regular season game. NOw in game 4 the nets will turn it up another notch again, and it will be interesting to see how the raps handle it. If you win it could mean you've learned, but if you lose your in a deep , deep , hole. More pressure for your young team. 

Lets see how it plays out....


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Obviously this one of those things that you cant find a standard definition for. But you can tell just by watching the games, that the intensity in playoff games is completely different from what you see in a regular season game. Players pace themselves differently, the officiating is different, even the crowds act differently. Why does firstrounder keep bringing up draft stock when talking about March Madness, not every guy playing in the tournament has NBA aspirations.


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## firstrounder (Oct 31, 2004)

^^Again a comparison to regular season.

Thats not what this thread was about people, please read.

Its about the fact that these players have faced similar pressures all throughout their career at each level.

E.G. - Euro playoffs, March madness, High School state champs, etc.

So why do people always use the lack of playoff experience excuse? These guys have all been in similar pressure cooker situations before and have excelled or else they would not be in the NBA!


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## jerkstore (Nov 3, 2006)

firstrounder said:


> Anthony Parker hasnt seemed to have had to make much of an adjustment then has he?


No. Anthony Parker is totally boss.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

firstrounder said:


> ^^Again a comparison to regular season.
> 
> Thats not what this thread was about people, please read.
> 
> ...


Its not similar though. I dont know I can explain this. The talent level isn't the same. The Nets might have underachieved during the regular season, but they are giving the Raps all they have right now. Parker has never had to guard a guy of Vince's caliber. Ford is not the best point guard in the series, the raps transition D has no answer for RJ and Boki. Collins is one of the best low post defenders in the league. Need I go on. Of course the Nets are also having problems with the Raps, but more often than not, the playoffs are all about matchups


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## nets1 (Sep 27, 2002)

I guess you don't understand firstrounder, nothing compares to the pressure of the nba playoffs becasue you are playing against the best in the world. High school champ play against the best players in the state, yet one high school player in a 100 make it to a major college program. Colleger championship single elinimation game is again against college players where 1 out of a hundred make it to the pros, and once in the pros the average career is only 3 years. So when the best of the best are playing and your a rookie at it there is a big difference. The game is the same, rules are the same, but the pressure is increditable.


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## firstrounder (Oct 31, 2004)

No it is YOU who doesnt understand.

You keep trying to compare this to the regular season. I never said the playoffs = regular season. I never said anything of the sort.

Now you are saying its the calibre of the players? No. 

I'm going to make my point ONE MORE TIME and then I'm out. Im not going to keep going around in circles with you over and over again.

When NBAers were younger, for example in High School, playing in the state championship, at that point in time there was huge amount of pressure on them, more than they had ever faced to that point. How did they handle this pressure? Did they succeed or fail? 

To become a sucessful NCAA player they must have suceeded in high school b-ball's most pressure-filled situations. 

Then the same thing happened in the NCAA. All of these guys played in the NCAA March Madness tourney (except the Euros). If they flopped, they would have seen their stock drop which could have even cost them an NBA career. These players faced just as much pressure then as they are facing right now, and they are BETTER PREPARED TO FACE THE PRESSURE NOW, since they have past experience to lay back on.

It doesnt matter the level of competition when you are talking NCAA to NBA. Doesnt make it less pressure. The NCAA final 4 is WAY more pressure than the first round of the NBA playoffs. To say that it doesnt matter because the players aren't NBA calibre is ridiculous.

We are talking about a psychological thing here. The best players in the world, who play in the NBA, got their because they were able to do things better than other players both athletically and psychologically. The mentally weak ones wouldnt make it this far. These guys have all faced INCREDIBLE pressures a number of times in their careers so far. I hardly think the 1st round of the playoffs is greater pressure than the Final Four, yet according to you its not because "the players aren't at the same level".

And by the way the pressure isnt "increditable". Its incredible. At EVERY level of play. 

I'm out.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Are you watching the Detroit/Magic game? Did you see what happened down the stretch. The more experienced team, took their time, made the right stops and converted every single tme down the court. The Magic on the other hand, made mistake after mistake, turning the ball over, not getting stops etc


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## firstrounder (Oct 31, 2004)

And here I thought it was all because the Pistons had more talent than the Magic.

Oh silly me.

The Magic would be a powerhouse and would demolish the Pistons if only they had more experience. Riiiiiiiiiight.


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## sammysamosa (Mar 10, 2003)

I described it to a friend of mine like this once...basically i used to play poker for a living. It's liek before you used to play maybe like $5-$20 little tournaments..But then you sit down at the big table with a buyin of $500-$2000 for the first time and your nerves get to you, your mind doesn't make all the right decisions because your nervous..And not only that the game is different, everyone is trying they're best cause it's for a lot of money. But after you've played at the big game for long enough you become more confortable, your mind starts thinking properly again. You start to make the right decisions. So basically i think of the raptors in the same light. We don't know what it's like and until we've played enough games in the playoffs. and until we feel comfortable with how the game plays when it's at higher stakes, we're going to continue to make those mistakes. Hopefully after next season we'll be able to make some noise in the playoffs.. I dunno if that makes sense to anyone but basically thats how i feel about it.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

firstrounder said:


> And here I thought it was all because the Pistons had more talent than the Magic.
> 
> Oh silly me.
> 
> The Magic would be a powerhouse and would demolish the Pistons if only they had more experience. Riiiiiiiiiight.


We are talking about that one game right. The Pistons went into that one game complacent, there was no reason the Magic couldnt have won that game, well except for inexperience that is


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## firstrounder (Oct 31, 2004)

Sure. Whatever you say.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

I guess you are going to believe whatever you want. If experience doesnt count, why is a 47 win struggling to beat a 41 win team.


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## firstrounder (Oct 31, 2004)

Dude, the series isnt over yet. Thats why they play 7 games.

And if you are arguing that the Nets experience is what will lead them past the Raptors, why then were the Nets not able to be more than a .500 team?


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

firstrounder said:


> Dude, the series isnt over yet. Thats why they play 7 games.
> 
> And if you are arguing that the Nets experience is what will lead them past the Raptors, why then were the Nets not able to be more than a .500 team?


Come on now, in an 82 game season injuries are more telling. The Nets should have been an above 500 team but besides the injury factor they have just been way too inconsistent. In a 7 game series, with all the breaks they get in between games, its really not that hard to key in on their opponents and stay motivated


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## firstrounder (Oct 31, 2004)

so now you are arguing that the Nets have more talent than the Raptors?

I thought you said it was experience, not talent?

Round and round we go!


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## jerkstore (Nov 3, 2006)

The Nets playoff record, was dismissed by Raptors posters as without value, Finals appeareances also without value, all that matters is jewlery.
Well allow me to retort. 

It's not just "experience" it's *depth* of experience. It's about how many guys have it. 
It's about leadership, and situational recognition, then for each player to make the correct choice.

Talent is a factor, Morale is a factor, Concentration is a factor, Stamina is a factor and all of this orbits the collective and cumulative experience and absobtion of lessons learned.

It comes down to how many times you've walked down this road.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

firstrounder said:


> so now you are arguing that the Nets have more talent than the Raptors?
> 
> I thought you said it was experience, not talent?
> 
> Round and round we go!


Read it again, obviously talent always comes into play, its the NBA after all. But do you know how hard it is for a low seed to come in and win against a high seed nowadays. What do you think helps them key in on their opponents better for those 6 or 7 games?


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

I love all the Nets fans that come on and understand all about playoff experience.

Here's something to understand. We win the next ****ing game we take control of the series. One game, folks, one game.

Read that... I'll say it again.

We are one game away from taking back control of the series.

And again for so you understand

We are one game away from taking back control of the series.

Apparently, from all your posts, I might need to repeat this again.

We are one game away from taking back control of the series.


Read again several times.

Understand now? I'm quessing its still way over your head.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

JuniorNoboa said:


> I love all the Nets fans that come on and understand all about playoff experience.
> 
> Here's something to understand. We win the next ****ing game we take control of the series. One game, folks, one game.


The Raptors have the control of this series, after all a 47 win team should have no problem taking care of a 41 win team


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## firstrounder (Oct 31, 2004)

Zzzzzzzz


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## NeoSamurai (Jan 16, 2003)

firstrounder said:


> When Parker was in the Euroleague finals, would you not say that at that point of his life it was the culmination of a lifetimes work?


clearly not since hes jumped to the NBA and is now trying to win an NBA title...for a lot of these players, as kids, most dont dream about winning the EuroLeague title or a National Championship, nor Olympic gold (although they are great accomplishments), they want to win the biggest prize of all and thats the Larry O'Brien trophy....

Parker and Dixon's accomplishments are exceptional, however, the idea of being an NBA Champion is the dream for anyone with a desire for basketball...its like hockey players and the Stanley Cup or soccer players with the World Cup...for basketball players the NBA playoffs is the biggest stage they can reach and to be there, especially if its your first time with not many teammates who have been there before to guide you in the experience, it can be intimidating...


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## NeoSamurai (Jan 16, 2003)

sammysamosa said:


> I described it to a friend of mine like this once...basically i used to play poker for a living. It's liek before you used to play maybe like $5-$20 little tournaments..But then you sit down at the big table with a buyin of $500-$2000 for the first time and your nerves get to you, your mind doesn't make all the right decisions because your nervous..And not only that the game is different, everyone is trying they're best cause it's for a lot of money. But after you've played at the big game for long enough you become more confortable, your mind starts thinking properly again. You start to make the right decisions. So basically i think of the raptors in the same light. We don't know what it's like and until we've played enough games in the playoffs. and until we feel comfortable with how the game plays when it's at higher stakes, we're going to continue to make those mistakes. Hopefully after next season we'll be able to make some noise in the playoffs.. I dunno if that makes sense to anyone but basically thats how i feel about it.


haha, this poker analogy spoke to me...i love it...


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## firstrounder (Oct 31, 2004)

NeoSamurai said:


> clearly not since hes jumped to the NBA and is now trying to win an NBA title..


Dude, I meant AT THAT TIME it was his biggest moment. That much is obvious, isnt it?


> Parker and Dixon's accomplishments are exceptional, however, the idea of being an NBA Champion is the dream for anyone with a desire for basketball...its like hockey players and the Stanley Cup or soccer players with the World Cup...for basketball players the NBA playoffs is the biggest stage they can reach and to be there, especially if its your first time with not many teammates who have been there before to guide you in the experience, it can be intimidating...



Yes I'm sure they want to win the NBA championship, but that is irrelavent to my point.

My point is that when Dixon was in the NCAA final and when Parker was in the Euro finals they were in a HUGE pressure situation, greater than the one they are in now, and they were successful.

My point was that most of the Raptors if not all have been in similar pressure situations before at different levels of basketball and they pulled through.

It doesnt matter that it was Euro or NCAA instead of NBA. The point remains the same, that at THAT TIME IN THEIR LIFE, it was a HUGE pressure situation, and something greater than they had ever faced before, and they SUCCEEDED. 

I would argue with you that an NCAA final is far more pressure for a college player who hasnt yet been in the NBA, than a 1st round NBA playoff series is for an NBA player who has been in the league a while. There is no question in my mind that the Final Four would be more overwhelming than an NBA 1st round series. No question. 

We're talking about kids here, on a national stage. The NBA has men who have been through so much more up to this point.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

I'm sorry, but I'm going to side with the Nets fans on this one. Experience in the big leagues is not the same as experience in less developed leagues or amateur leagues. I wouldn't even consider their college or highschool experience because it doesn't matter how much experience they have at that time, since they are playing against other players who have had pretty much the same experience as them. The most amount of gap you can have in a NCAA game is a senior vs. freshman, which is just 3 more seasons, whereas in the NBA you have someone like Jason Kidd playing against Jose Calderon. It's not comparing apples to apples. You wouldn't know if Dixon or Parker made any mistake in NCAA, since even if they did, their opponents would probably make the same mistake also considering they have the same experience, thus making this comparison a moot point.

If you look at teams that have went deep into the playoffs, the majority of them are veteran teams. I don't have the exact statistics, but I don't think a team with key players that are in their mid 20s have made to the conference finals in the past 10 years. The last young team to make it to the finals was Shaq and Penny all the way back in 95' and GP&Kemp in 96.. And if you remember back then, it was playoff experience that cracked the Magic (remember those miss freethrows by Nick Anderson) causing the sweep. Kemp and GP were 26-27 year old in 96' as well, and Kemp has been in the league since highschool. I think Charles Barkley said it best a couple nights ago on TNT, once a player enters the playoffs it is a whole different experience and each level the team progresses that experience grows more intense.


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## shookem (Nov 1, 2005)

It's easy. In Euroleague, in college, in high school and in every big game these players played in before the NBA, they were the best players on the court. Now they're not. The pressure may be the same but the surroundings are not.

Make no mistake, a big game is a big game. But a big game versus Nikos Zisis or Dane Fife is different than a big game versus Jason Kidd and his band of merry men.


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## NeoSamurai (Jan 16, 2003)

firstrounder said:


> It doesnt matter that it was Euro or NCAA instead of NBA. The point remains the same, that at THAT TIME IN THEIR LIFE, it was a HUGE pressure situation, and something greater than they had ever faced before, and they SUCCEEDED.
> 
> I would argue with you that an NCAA final is far more pressure for a college player who hasnt yet been in the NBA, than a 1st round NBA playoff series is for an NBA player who has been in the league a while. There is no question in my mind that the Final Four would be more overwhelming than an NBA 1st round series. No question.
> 
> We're talking about kids here, on a national stage. The NBA has men who have been through so much more up to this point.


Yes but you neglect the fact that in college basketball, especially during the March tourney, the champs are almost always led by an experienced junior or senior. Rarely do you ever see a freshman come in and take his team to the title based upon his talent alone. There was Melo a couple of years back, Oden this year, who else? Not many come to mind. Heck, thats the reason why the Fab 4 never came away with a title despite their talents. These teams are led by superstars and with the case of Oden, despite being the best player on the court in the Natl Championship his team still lost to the more talented and experienced Florida Gators, a team that 2 years ago were led by sophmores but have at least 3 guys going into the NBA. 

For Bosh, consider that he hasnt played a meaningful post-season game in 5 years when he was in HS. He played in the ACC with GT and that arguably brought on some nerves, but it is still 5 years ago. This can explain why he has looked tentative at times and seems to be pressing at others. A lack of knowing what to do in a pressure filled situation may be getting into his head right now, despite his talent and athletic advantage.

Experience is huge...


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## NJ Grand NJ (Feb 22, 2005)

firstrounder said:


> Dude, I meant AT THAT TIME it was his biggest moment. That much is obvious, isnt it?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's just different, that's it. Go play in a pick up game for 20 dollars. You could play your heart out and make it the biggest moment of your life. But once you step into a State championship game, it's a whole different animal. 

Still, it's different for everyone. Some people choke in the NCAA tourney and turn out fine in pressure situations in the league. Now you keep saying this isn't a regular season vs. playoffs. But it actually is. 

Experience matters when the game completely changes on you. All of a sudden, the games have become more physical, everyone is going 100%, and each game is filled with adjustments. That's why experience matters.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

Although you cannot ignore the people that have won previously in their career even at lower levels. A player that have been in winning environment do tend become better players at the pro level. They just need experience in order to fulfill their potential. Just because Bosh isn't a big time playoff performer the first time around doesn't mean he won't become a big time performer in the future, just look at Kobe.


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## c_dog (Sep 15, 2002)

Going to have to side with the nets fans too. They've made some valid points. Some things are hard to put into words and you kind of have to have played competitive sport to understand. In short though, I don't think NBA playoffs is the world's biggest stage in basketball, and NCAA, euroleague, just don't quite compare, that's why we see some of these guys crumble under pressure.

Shookem makes a valid point also. Anthony Parker has played in the Europleague and he has been in pressure situation before, but he was always the best player on the floor. I mean, he was Euroleague MVP! Now he's not even the best player on his team(Bosh), and the opposing team has Kidd, Carter, Jefferson who are all better players than him.


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## firstrounder (Oct 31, 2004)

> Shookem makes a valid point also. Anthony Parker has played in the Europleague and he has been in pressure situation before, but he was always the best player on the floor. I mean, he was Euroleague MVP! Now he's not even the best player on his team(Bosh),


Oh but Parker IS the best player on his team, isn't he?

At least he has been in this series - Raps fans will agree.

Doesnt that say something? 

The Euroleague playoff experience probably has him better prepared.


And by the way, anyone who says that Euroleague playoffs arent anywhere near as pressure filled as 1st round NBA playoffs, I gotta disagree. Do you know anything about Euro League Playoffs? The crowds are crazier than any NBA crowd, there are riots, and the pressure is INSANE.


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## chubibo (Aug 6, 2006)

firstrounder said:


> Oh but Parker IS the best player on his team, isn't he?
> 
> At least he has been in this series - Raps fans will agree.
> 
> ...


to be clear i dont watch euroleague. IMO, the difference with the NBA playoffs and other big games is:
1) refs (superstar treatments):biggrin: 

2) exposing of weakness then explioting them (like commentators saying devin harris loves to go right so force him left)

3) of course more defense(for most teams) like pushes, shoves, cheapshots

4) championship ring/trophy (mostly, players who enter the playoffs will contend for the ring)

5) like others say these players like Parker, Nowitzki, Jasikevacious? n etc. were under pressure in big games overseas while being a #1 option. while in the playoffs, they got to fill in their role and play more like a team than being dependent on a superstar.

6) 7 game series (more time to thinkof strategies of how to counter this/that, prevent this player to catch the ball down low)

7) hack-a-shaq strategy is implemented :lol: :lol: 

8) coaches playing mind games with the other teams coaches or players. or coaches using technical fouls (one for the team lol) to pump up their players or maybe even ejecting themselves if they're crazy enough

hope i help :cheers:


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## shookem (Nov 1, 2005)

firstrounder said:


> Oh but Parker IS the best player on his team, isn't he?
> 
> At least he has been in this series - Raps fans will agree.
> 
> ...


C'mon man, now you're being thick.

Look at my post and tell me that playing against the Greek nationals or Indiana State is the same as playing against the Nets. The pressure, sure I agree with you, pressure is pressure. But don't waste everyone's time by trying to deny the difference in quality of ball in the NBA. If you don't know that it represents the best at this point there's nothing we can do for you.


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## firstrounder (Oct 31, 2004)

The Greek Nationals would probably beat the Nets.

Heck Spain beat a team of NBA all stars at the world champs.

But this isn't about "quality of ball" like you suggest I'm getting at. Its about pressure. And as you said yourself "pressure is pressure".

Look if you dont agree with me, thats fine. But you arent going to change my reasoning for starting this thread.

I guess thats why theres chocolate and vanilla.


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## shookem (Nov 1, 2005)

I'm just not sure what you're getting.

I agree that pressure is pressure, I agree that these guys have been in pressure packed situations before but the level of talent was not what it is in the NBA.


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## RX (May 24, 2006)

firstrounder said:


> These guys shouldn't need to relearn the game in the playoffs, and they shouldnt be buckling under all the increased "pressure".
> 
> So why do we always use the lack of playoff experience excuse?
> 
> If they couldnt handle the pressure of the big game, how could they handle playing in front of scouts etc before they were drafted?


I don't think the lack of playoff experience should be used as an excuse at all, if they lose they lose to the better team. Regular seasons means JACK in the playoffs, that is why they have them.

Its not like they need to re-learn their game at all, its that the Nets have stepped up and changed their intensity and the Raps need to match it in order to succeed.

I've seen every single Raptors game this season, and a lot of Nets games(just cuz its local). There is a difference in how the Nets are playing now vs the regular season. These are some of the worst games i've seen them play and they just aren't imposing their style of play. A factor of that is obviously the intensity of the Nets....but the Raptors aren't really doing themselves any favours by letting the Nets bully them around.

For instance Bosh is disappointing like crazy, i understand the Nets are doing a good job on him but he isn't doing anything but helping them out. There were glimpses of what he could do at the end of game 2, but otherwise he's been mostly invisible in the series.


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## firstrounder (Oct 31, 2004)

> I'm just not sure what you're getting.
> 
> I agree that pressure is pressure, I agree that these guys have been in pressure packed situations before but the level of talent was not what it is in the NBA.


You agree with my original premise then.

That these guys have been in VERY high pressure situations before, so they shouldnt let their nerves get the best of them.

Talent is another story...talent will usually get the better of talent - unless nerves play a factor.


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## RX (May 24, 2006)

firstrounder said:


> You agree with my original premise then.
> 
> That these guys have been in VERY high pressure situations before, so they shouldnt let their nerves get the best of them.
> 
> Talent is another story...talent will usually get the better of talent - unless nerves play a factor.


If your original point was that you can't use the excuse about this being their first time in the playoffs then yes I agree, no excuses.


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## firstrounder (Oct 31, 2004)

yep, thats exactly what my point was


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

Pressure is not the key factor at work here.

There is a reason that teams have to progress toward a championship. Why they have to lose in the playoffs before they can win. Sure, part of it is nerves and the feeling of going into a new experience that you have heard so much about and wanted for so long.

But another big factor is CHEMISTRY. It's knowing how your teammates react to tough times. Its how your 5 man unit responds to big moments. That takes time to develop and you have to develop it under the pressure of the playoffs. Playoffs come down to execution in the final minutes of games. The great teams have the experience of playing together for long periods like the Pistons and Spurs. That's why they rarely make mistakes or panic.

History shows that championship teams have to get over some type of hurdle in the playoffs. The 80's Pistons had to get by the Celtics and then the Lakers. The learned together how to do that. The Jordan Bulls had to get by the Pistons. Until those teams went through the playoff wars together they weren't ready to go all the way. It forces them to focus completely on the goal and work together as a unit more effectively.

And its also about exposing your key weakness and adding that final piece.

Raps are just paying some dues right now.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

lucky777s said:


> Raps are just paying some dues right now.


This is true, but I hope people realize there is a lot of basketball left to be played in this series.


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## c_dog (Sep 15, 2002)

firstrounder said:


> Oh but Parker IS the best player on his team, isn't he?
> 
> At least he has been in this series - Raps fans will agree.
> 
> ...


Anthony Parker has played well though he did struggle a bit in game 3, but I will agree that he's probably playing the best right now. Other guys simply haven't been themselves.

Anthony Parker is playing well because he's better prepared than the other guys, because he had euroleague playoff experience which is the closest thing to nba playoffs experience. No kidding other events like NCAA and state championships would help a player gain experience too, but they're just no where close to the level of competition and intensity of an nba playoff game. There's your answer.

If you're going to be ignorant and insist NCAA/state championships provided the same pressure situation as an NBA playoff game then nobody can help you. This isn't about excuses, this is fact. Like I said, you almost have to have played competitive sports to understand.


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## nets1 (Sep 27, 2002)

ok, game 4 first half: Which team has the experience and which team looks like an expansion team? Which team stepped it up even anohter notch, and which team looks like they are trying just to weather the storm. Simple answer the playoff experienced team is.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

nets1 said:


> ok, game 4 first half: Which team has the experience and which team looks like an expansion team? Which team stepped it up even anohter notch, and which team looks like they are trying just to weather the storm. Simple answer the playoff experienced team is.


**** off


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

....


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## nets1 (Sep 27, 2002)

the point of this thread was to define if playoff experience really is a factor in this series. I think the result of game 4 should answer that question. Now, wait till the pressure of game 5 starts... I'm not really being a jerk here, just trying to explain the intangible that is what makes the playoffs so exciting..

good luck in game 5 in toronto...

oh yeah, go nets!!!


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## BaLLiStiX17 (Mar 27, 2005)

nets1 said:


> the point of this thread was to define if playoff experience really is a factor in this series. I think the result of game 4 should answer that question. Now, wait till the pressure of game 5 starts... *I'm not really being a jerk here*, just trying to explain the intangible that is what makes the playoffs so exciting..
> 
> good luck in game 5 in toronto...
> 
> oh yeah, go nets!!!





> oh yeah, go nets!!!


..


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## Fray (Dec 19, 2005)

JuniorNoboa said:


> ....


I also trust in Carter's jumpshot. 

And playoff experience definately matters.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

Fray said:


> I also trust in Carter's jumpshot.
> 
> And playoff experience definately matters.


That was not my post... that was my sig.


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## ghoti (Jan 30, 2005)

Ever get a new job?

You get better and better the longer you do it. You see more and more things, you make mistakes and learn from them, you do stuff that works and exploit those things for all they are worth.

Your confidence grows and you look back at the newbie you and say "What the hell was I thinking? I really sucked at this!"

Then later on you look back at _that_ you and say, "I _still _sucked! I thought I was so great! Haha!"

And if you have the same co-workers and together you grew and now you all kick *** together, you are even more confident.

Experience is a very, very important factor in every aspect of life. 

NBA Playoff basketball is a high-profile, pressure packed atmosphere that can punish even the most talented athlete. Knowing what to expect and how to deal with that is a huge, huge advantage over a less experienced opponent.


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## 4BiddenKnight (Jun 23, 2005)

ghoti said:


> Ever get a new job?
> 
> You get better and better the longer you do it. You see more and more things, you make mistakes and learn from them, you do stuff that works and exploit those things for all they are worth.
> 
> ...


As seen in today's game, I guarantee you experience matters.


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## Fray (Dec 19, 2005)

JuniorNoboa said:


> That was not my post... that was my sig.


I'm aware of that. I can't comment on your sig? (Which is now gone I noticed)


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

Fray said:


> I'm aware of that. I can't comment on your sig? (Which is now gone I noticed)


Correct, your not allowed to comment on my sig.


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## jarkid (Jun 30, 2005)

If you dare to put the things you want to say in the sig, you should be criticized if your saying is just ridiculous and sarcrasm.

Yes, I believe Carter's jumpers.


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## firstrounder (Oct 31, 2004)

> the point of this thread was to define if playoff experience really is a factor in this series.


The point wasnt really IF it mattered, it was more why does it matter. I started this thread because it appeared as if the Raptors lack of experience was killing them, which frustrated me, because havent these guys all had extensive big game experience before?

The point was, yes experience seems to matter, but why? All of these guys should have the necessary experience from past "big games" at every level they have played at.


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## ballocks (May 15, 2003)

i don't know, man. i think playoff experience matters only to those who _think_ it matters. i think that's why it usually comes to light with young teams- they're often not stubborn enough to deny the idea, they're too often resigned to accepting/believing it.

if you go into a game thinking, "man, i've never been here before. everyone says that it's different if you've never been here before so it's going to be different for me, too," it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

i'm not going to blame it all on the media and fans... but i am. media and fans want to simplify things for themselves and if they get a hold of something like this (experience), it becomes stigmatic very quickly. soon enough, if you're not careful, the theory finds its way into the locker room and manages to pick away at the players. the effects are then seen on the floor.

#1) leadership. you need it here. you need it from the wily ol' vets and coaches. the leaders have to clothe the kids with an armour that'll resist the often ridiculous public comments, expectations and _temptations_ to play in the same games as the people _not_ playing in the games.

#2) the game itself is the same. people can talk about the difference between regular season and postseason forever, but it might never make a difference to me. you still have four 12-minute quarters. you're still playing according to the same rules. nothing has changed besides the fact that you're playing the same team over and over and over again. there may be more of an 'event' around every game but that's strictly off-the-floor rhetoric. if you're a basketball player duly focused on the basketball, virtually nothing has changed... 

unless, again, you think it has and enter the picture in that frame of mind. then you're just fighting yourself. some people say you need experience to adjust to the postseason but i'd put a different spin on it: you might need experience to realize you don't need experience.

peace


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

jarkid said:


> If you dare to put the things you want to say in the sig, you should be criticized if your saying is just ridiculous and sarcrasm.
> 
> Yes, I believe Carter's jumpers.


No - I am not allowed to be criticized.


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## nets1 (Sep 27, 2002)

Game 6 the raptors players played like they have playoff experience. Many of you must have wondered damn where were these guys during the series? Well now its safe to say the raptors team does have playoff experience including Bosh who finally realized or clicked in the 4th qtr. If the raptors of game 6 showed up in game 1 this series goes 7 games and who know who would win. Now you know why playoff experience is so valuable. And now your team has it, good luck in the off season and you should be proud of a strong season by your young and talented team...

oh yeah, go nets!!!!


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## Mateo (Sep 23, 2006)

The series went 6 games with one team having hardly a player with playoff experience and the other team having a lot of experience, including 2 players with back-to-back NBA finals appearances. The reality is that the playoff experience disparity was so great that if it matters as much as some claim we should have seen some basketball disparity as well. But we didn't. From that I have to think that if playoff experience matters at all, it matters very little.


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## nets1 (Sep 27, 2002)

maybe you missed games one, three and four.


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## nets1 (Sep 27, 2002)

and forgot the 27 point blown lead in game 5. Oh don't worry your team does have playoff experience now, but some of the fans still need to work on it.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

nets1 said:


> and forgot the 27 point blown lead in game 5. Oh don't worry your team does have playoff experience now, *but some of the fans still need to work on it. *


Nice.. please explain. 

BTW the lead was 20.


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## Mateo (Sep 23, 2006)

nets1 said:


> and forgot the 27 point blown lead in game 5. Oh don't worry your team does have playoff experience now, but some of the fans still need to work on it.


Dallas Mavericks apparently don't have playoff experience then, because they blew a huge lead in game 5 of their series.


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