# David Stern responds



## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

NEW YORK, Dec. 12 –- The following statement was issued by NBA Commissioner David Stern in regard to Rasheed Wallace's recent public comments: 

"Mr. Wallace’s hateful diatribe was ignorant and offensive to all NBA players. I refuse to enhance his heightened sense of deprivation by publicly debating with him. Since Mr. Wallace did not direct his comments at any particular individuals other than me, I think it best to leave it to the Trail Blazers organization -– and its players and fans -– to determine the attitudes by which they wish to be defined." 

http://www.nba.com/news/statement_031212.html


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## mavsman (Jun 11, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Fork</b>!
> NEW YORK, Dec. 12 –- The following statement was issued by NBA Commissioner David Stern in regard to Rasheed Wallace's recent public comments:
> 
> "Mr. Wallace’s hateful diatribe was ignorant and offensive to all NBA players. I refuse to enhance his heightened sense of deprivation by publicly debating with him. Since Mr. Wallace did not direct his comments at any particular individuals other than me, I think it best to leave it to the Trail Blazers organization -– and its players and fans -– to determine the attitudes by which they wish to be defined."
> ...


I could not agree with Stern more. Ignorant and Offensive was
exactly what it was.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

It's amazing how Stern managed to ask every NBA player about the comments and determine that Wallace's comments were offensive to each and every one of them.

Or, possibly, Stern is talking as much out of his butt there as Rasheed was in some of the things HE said.

Ed O.


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Ed O</b>!
> It's amazing how Stern managed to ask every NBA player about the comments and determine that Wallace's comments were offensive to each and every one of them.
> 
> Or, possibly, Stern is talking as much out of his butt there as Rasheed was in some of the things HE said.
> ...


It never ends...:no:


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## bfan1 (Mar 5, 2003)

#1 The officials will eat Sheed alive tomorrow.

#2. I wonder if any players will speak up and say whether they agree with Rasheed or Stern?

#3. It is very common for a person to respond to something that hits home or is uncomfortable with "I'm not even going to discuss this".

#4. I am suprised that Stern didn't fine Rasheed. He pretty much commanded the Blazers to do so-or should I say he cracked his whip?

#5. The guy still looks like Kermit the frog.

#6. This story is just beginning.

#7 When will Jason release his article?

#8. Geoffrey Arnold made a big mistake.

#9. So did Rasheed.


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## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>bfan1</b>!
> #3. It is very common for a person to respond to something that hits home or is uncomfortable with "I'm not even going to discuss this".


It's also a common reaction when a comment is so far out of line with reality that it's obviously pointless to even debate it. because the person who makes the idiotic commnt will clearly never understand.


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## mavsman (Jun 11, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>bfan1</b>!
> #3. It is very common for a person to respond to something that hits home or is uncomfortable with "I'm not even going to discuss this".


It is also common for someone to respond that way when someone
else makes a comment about you which is so profoundly stupid
that there can not really be any rational discussion about it.


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Fork</b>!
> 
> 
> It's also a common reaction when a comment is so far out of line with reality that it's obviously pointless to even debate it. because the person who makes the idiotic commnt will clearly never understand.


And in addition such topics have no easy answer that can be construed appropriately in all regards.


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## mavsman (Jun 11, 2003)

Hey Fork you had pretty much the exact same reaction to #3 as I did.


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

Sounds like he's asking the Trailblazer fans to boo Wallace for him... like bfan1 said, I expect Dave's henchmen (the refs) to make quick work of Sheed tomorrow.

STOMP


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Ed O</b>!
> It's amazing how Stern managed to ask every NBA player about the comments and determine that Wallace's comments were offensive to each and every one of them.
> 
> Or, possibly, Stern is talking as much out of his butt there as Rasheed was in some of the things HE said.
> ...


Stern couldnt have responded better to what Sheed said. I dont think anyone will take your post very serious since its becoming painfully clear that Rasheed could go pick up Bonzi and go on a killing spree and you would try to blame it on the media.


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## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>mavsman</b>!
> Hey Fork you had pretty much the exact same reaction to #3 as I did.


We must be pretty smart?


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## bfan1 (Mar 5, 2003)

#3. True you guys...true. 

Like Schilly said...the topic is just too difficult to discuss...I can see why he would respond this way.


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## Reep (Jun 4, 2003)

Stern's comments remind me of last year when he sent a message to Paul Allen about cleaning up the team. Where do you draw the line between free speech and suspension-earning racist BS? I think Rasheed should be allowed to speak his mind, it's just unfortunate to see what really fills his mind.


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## kultcha (Jul 5, 2003)

If Rasheed is tormented by the Ref's tomorrow I will personally feel that he's closer to the truth then further.

If "Both Teams Played Hard" is too little information then they should be able to live with his honest opinions. Whether we, they, or anyone likes them or not.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>R-Star</b>!
> 
> Stern couldnt have responded better to what Sheed said. I dont think anyone will take your post very serious since its becoming painfully clear that Rasheed could go pick up Bonzi and go on a killing spree and you would try to blame it on the media.


Um, yeah. Please point to one post where I defended anything Rasheed said. In fact, in my post in this very thread, I commented as an aside that some of Rasheed's thoughts were off.

The thing is, it's disgusting to me that David Stern deigns to tell everyone what's offensive to "to all NBA players" when the comment was made _by an NBA player_.

Does every NBA player agree with Rasheed's views of "exploitation"? Absolutely not. Are all NBA players offended by the opinions Rasheed gave? No way. And for David Stern to paint it as some "Rasheed against the rest of his peers" situation is either disingenuous or just incredibly arrogant.

Ed O.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Ed O</b>!
> 
> 
> Um, yeah. Please point to one post where I defended anything Rasheed said. In fact, in my post in this very thread, I commented as an aside that some of Rasheed's thoughts were off.
> ...


We usualy dont see eye to eye, but maybe I can agree that Stern is not right spreak for every NBA player. I think the major majority of the league thing Rasheed is an idiot for saying what he said though. Who does something this stupid their contract year? Rasheed is very lucky he has basketball talent, and even if hes squandered it, its got him alot further than his intellect would have.


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## Talkhard (May 13, 2003)

I think I now realize why Wallace doesn't do interviews. He knows that he's not too bright, and that he will only end up putting his foot in his mouth, as he did this time. 

You were right, Sheed. Keep shunning the press and saying, "Both teams played hard." It's about all you have to offer.


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## bfan1 (Mar 5, 2003)

I couldn't decide what thread to say this in...I guessed it could go here:

I'm wondering if Fatima will respond? She has never had to before but I can't help but think she is on the verge of doing so.

The Wallace's do have a lot to lose here-I mean-uprooting a family is no picnic. She is pregnant. Rasheed said they would rather not leave Portland. 

I just have a feeling we may be hearing from her. If she does make a statement-and does it well-could she/would she right the ship?

Kobe's situation seemed hopeless and a statement by his wife was very helpful in stabalizing the situation. Would it be helpful here?


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## Blazer Ringbearer (Jan 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>R-Star</b>!
> 
> I think the major majority of the league thing Rasheed is an idiot for saying what he said though. Who does something this stupid their contract year?


I think you might be right here, but do you think that fellow players think that he's an idiot for _saying_ what he said, or for believing it?

We can scoff at it all we like, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if Sheed's views were echoed to some extent throughout the league...

I also wouldn't be surprised if Stern sent down a sort of gag order throughout the league that none of the players are allowed to make comments echoing Sheed's. I'm sure he would like to have the last word on this subject. 

Cheers


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Blazer Ringbearer</b>!
> 
> 
> I think you might be right here, but do you think that fellow players think that he's an idiot for _saying_ what he said, or for believing it?
> ...


Im going to go out on a limb here and say there arent too many players out there who think the league is racist.


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## Oldmangrouch (Feb 11, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>kultcha</b>!
> If Rasheed is tormented by the Ref's tomorrow I will personally feel that he's closer to the truth then further.
> 
> If "Both Teams Played Hard" is too little information then they should be able to live with his honest opinions. Whether we, they, or anyone likes them or not.



Shame on you! How dare you try to interject calm, rational thought into the debate!:grinning:


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## FeloniusThunk (Jan 1, 2003)

Didn't Charles Barkley say pretty much the same thing last year, when he had the magazine cover with him in chains? I don't agree with it, but I don't think it's all that stupid opinion to have. Stern's "no comment, but everyone agrees with me and the Blazers better do something about it" could have been a simple "that's ridiculous", and saved some grief. It looks too much like a veiled threat, and loses him an opportunity to be the bigger man. 

One thing kind of funny is that they can't really fine him without proving a part of his point: that the NBA wants players who just say what their bosses tell them to say. Bet Mr. Stern regrets fining him for saying nothing.


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## bfan1 (Mar 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>FeloniusThunk</b>!
> Didn't Charles Barkley say pretty much the same thing last year, when he had the magazine cover with him in chains? I don't agree with it, but I don't think it's all that stupid opinion to have. Stern's "no comment, but everyone agrees with me and the Blazers better do something about it" could have been a simple "that's ridiculous", and saved some grief. It looks too much like a veiled threat, and loses him an opportunity to be the bigger man.
> 
> One thing kind of funny is that they can't really fine him without proving a part of his point: that the NBA wants players who just say what their bosses tell them to say. Bet Mr. Stern regrets fining him for saying nothing.


Felonious...this is so right on.


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## Trader Ed (Jun 17, 2002)

Go forward with the trade of Sheed to NJ 

that way Sheed is closer to Mr. Stern


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## Tom (Jul 15, 2002)

David stern is a has been coatailer who needs to get a new job selling popcorn.


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## Todd (Oct 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Tom</b>!
> David stern is a has been coatailer who needs to get a new job selling popcorn.


My father in-law owns poppers supply in Portland. I am sure I could get him a job, and he could be near his best friend Sheed:grinning:


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## Tom (Jul 15, 2002)

sounds great, but i don't think he has enough athletic ability!


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## Tom (Jul 15, 2002)

ps...what would happen to shee if he called him ignorant?


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>R-Star</b>!
> 
> 
> Stern couldnt have responded better to what Sheed said. I dont think anyone will take your post very serious since its becoming painfully clear that Rasheed could go pick up Bonzi and go on a killing spree and you would try to blame it on the media.


Which is as fair as saying you'd excoriate Wells and Wallace even if they saved hundreds of children from a burning orphanage.

Ed's point, which you ignored just to attack him, was valid: Stern couldn't possibly know whether Wallace's comments were "offensive" to all the league's players....Stern decided that since it was offensive to him, it was offensive to everyone.


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## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Minstrel</b>!
> Which is as fair as saying you'd excoriate Wells and Wallace even if they saved hundreds of children from a burning orphanage.
> 
> Ed's point, which you ignored just to attack him, was valid: Stern couldn't possibly know whether Wallace's comments were "offensive" to all the league's players....Stern decided that since it was offensive to him, it was offensive to everyone.


Stop splitting hairs.

Repeatedly calling guys 'dumb n*****s' is offensive to most people. Okay, maybe not all, but most. There...happy now?


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

Unfortunately too many people white or black look at the color of the face containing the lips that speak the words. 

Here is my opinion at the sake of being controversial. I see people like Rasheed and Bonzi as African Americans who help to draw the racsim border. By saying things like Sheed said using th econotation, he implies that people are not just prejudice but think of the young black athletes using the same terminology Sheed used. 

I realize that racism is indeed alive and thriving, and I ghurantee if you look hard enough at anything, you will start to see what you want to see, if that is what you are looking for.

Racism is a problem, but attitudes like the one Rasheed has displyed enhances it, creating anger in the minority sanction against people who in fact are not racist. And likewise enhancing the racist opinion of ignorant white people just looking for more reason to be racist. 

The only way to fight racism is by fighting ignorance, on all fronts. Getting people educated breaking the cycle. If you don't want to emphasize and fan the flames, don't generalize, you can be specific and get your point across with out throwing a log on the racism fire

IS racism Rasheeds fault? Heck no, racism has been around since the beginning of time. But he could try to do something proactive instead of just throwing it out there. 

Hey Sheed, you are in a position financially to help some other african americans alot of whom are in fact still trying to recover from the injustices black people have faced in this country. Start a scholarship fund. Start a community awareness program. 

I've never seen anyone put out a fire by fanning it.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Great post Schilly. I couldn't have said it any better myself. Fanning the flames of hate in both realms is what comments like these do. 

I'm not surprised he didn't wait till his career was over to say something like this, because when he retires he will most likely be rendered a blip on the NBA history (by the higher ups), but he is only expediting his explusion from the league.

Look for Mark Cuban to take a flyer on him, but how many other owners will really want him.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Fork</b>!
> 
> 
> Stop splitting hairs.
> ...


No. A fair amount of young black men would not be offended by another black man using the term "******"...furthermore, the tone was not that Wallace felt they were all "dumb ******s," but that that's how he felt *the league* saw them. Finally, the "cats" he was referring to were most probably not those *in* the league, successful, but those who were lured into eschewing education and other types of future for the big bucks of the NBA and ended up failing, leaving them virtually nothing.

For quite a few reasons, I seriously doubt Stern speaks for everyone. He may speak for you, but I don't necessarily think you or Stern are in tune with the majority of players in the NBA.

There. Now are *you* happy?


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## Blazerfan024 (Aug 15, 2003)

Tonight on NBA shootaround i cant remember the dudes name but he said Rasheed was just saying what most athletes feel in the nba but were to scared to say it. Did any one else catch this?



P.S Im not Saying I Agree Just Stating What Was Said.


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## Talkhard (May 13, 2003)

> A fair amount of young black men would not be offended by another black man using the term "******"...


Oh, really? I remember Johnnie Cochran in the O.J. trial telling the jury that the N-word was the most vile and hated word in the English language for a black person. If that's true, why wouldn't young black men be offended by it?


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Minstrel</b>!
> 
> 
> Which is as fair as saying you'd excoriate Wells and Wallace even if they saved hundreds of children from a burning orphanage.
> ...


No its not nearly the same actualy. Show me Rasheed or Bonzi doing a REAL good deed, not team planned events like going to a hospital and Ill give him his due. The ornament drive sheed does gives him credit in my books, but it does so many things to overshadow that. 

As far as Ed O's comments, I agreed partially with him about David not being about to talk for every player. But Im sure he didnt think some people would take what he said that literal. Its just common sence to think that the majority of players in the league are shaking their heads at what Rasheed said. And I know for a fact from reading your and Ed O's posts that you have more than enough of it to see what Im saying and what Stern meant.


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## Blazerfan024 (Aug 15, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Talkhard</b>!
> 
> 
> Oh, really? I remember Johnnie Cochran in the O.J. trial telling the jury that the N-word was the most vile and hated word in the English language for a black person. If that's true, why wouldn't young black men be offended by it?



We are not taking about lawyers We are talking about thugs. They use the N-Word to eatchother all the time. Older Black people may take offense or they may take offense if a white said it to them but black on black a majority do not get offended as long as its thier homies.


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## Masbee (Dec 31, 2002)

Stern's response to Sheed's interview quotes was very insubstantial and unsatisfying.

His response preached to the choir of those who already dismiss Sheed, was thoughtless, smug and arrogant.

Stern had an opportunity to touch upon a very sensitive subject, and put the NBA's case forward that is *is not* anything like what Sheed thinks it is, and to highlight what he feels are examples of how the NBA is a beacon of opportunity and achievement for African-americans (or whatever he thinks is true).

Stern's personal and public lambasting of Sheed the person, and his call for all in the NBA to attack him, will only create paranoia and mistrust among those in the NBA who feel Sheed may have some valid points. Sometimes perception is reality. And if there are too many NBA players/coaches/executives who feel the way Sheed does, even if in part, that is bad news.


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## Talkhard (May 13, 2003)

> We are not taking about lawyers We are talking about thugs. They use the N-Word to eatchother all the time. Older Black people may take offense or they may take offense if a white said it to them but black on black a majority do not get offended as long as its thier homies.


Why not? The N-word was used by the white man to put them down, to keep them "in their place." Why would they use such a word on each other? Isn't that just confirming that they are what the white man said they were?


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## Blazer Ringbearer (Jan 28, 2003)

TH - exactly what point are you trying to make?


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Fork</b>!
> 
> Stop splitting hairs.


Who's splitting hairs? My original point, which is the one Minstrel was addressing after R-Star commented on it, was that David Stern was being arrogant when he spoke for all players. One player disagreed with him and the odds of no others doing so are nill.

Maybe you think that *I* was splitting hairs, which is arguably true. But the whole point of my original post is that Stern, who actually speaks and formulates marketing statements for a living (as opposed to Rasheed Wallace, who plays basketball) was guilty of stretching what I perceive to be the truth just as much as Rasheed did.



> Repeatedly calling guys 'dumb n*****s' is offensive to most people. Okay, maybe not all, but most. There...happy now?


What does your "simplification" have to do with the topic at hand? Rasheed didn't call anyone what you're alleging he did.

He SAID that word, but as Minstrel pointed out, he was saying that he thought the league thinks its players are that. Maybe you think Stern thinks the players are offended by the mere MENTION of the word? I guess that's possible, but doesn't seem likely.

The whole thing about every player in the NBA being offended is silly, IMO, and if it were for the reason you cite above, it's even sillier. If I said, "The NBA thinks that its fans are stupid!" are the people who read that and are NBA fans all offended? 

Ed O.


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## Helios (Nov 5, 2003)

> Since Mr. Wallace did not direct his comments at any particular individuals other than me, I think it best to leave it to the Trail Blazers organization -– and its players and fans -– to determine the attitudes by which they wish to be defined.


 DANGIT! Shoot, I was hoping Stern would determine the attitude by which I want to be defined FOR me. I'm glad he at least explained why he isn't going to do that for me though, there might have been some confusion as I waited for him to get around to it.


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## Talkhard (May 13, 2003)

> TH - exactly what point are you trying to make?


I'm not trying to make any point. I'm trying to understand why black men would call themselves a hated word that the white man used to oppress them, humiliate them, and dehumanize them. I truly don't understand it. Do you?


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

greetin's from San Diego!

I seem to remember, about 2 years ago, the NBA was going through a phase where people said they weren't listening to the younger players, and what not...even had a meeting on TV about it with several young players, and David Stern.

Darius Miles was on it and asked if he felt that the NBA was glossing over his problems, or even at the least, helping him. He says yes they were glossing over his problems, and not helping him enough.

Not even two minutes later, Stern is talking about something, and directly contradicts what Miles *had just said*.

btw, sorry if this was already. Im too tired to look at the rest of the posts.


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## barfo (Jan 2, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Talkhard</b>!
> 
> 
> I'm not trying to make any point. I'm trying to understand why black men would call themselves a hated word that the white man used to oppress them, humiliate them, and dehumanize them. I truly don't understand it. Do you?


Words and their meanings change over time and between subcultures. It's the same reason 'cool' and 'hot' mean the same thing. The same reason 'bad' means 'good'. 

barfo


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Hap</b>!
> greetin's from San Diego!
> 
> I seem to remember, about 2 years ago, the NBA was going through a phase where people said they weren't listening to the younger players, and what not...even had a meeting on TV about it with several young players, and David Stern.
> ...


Hap I see where you are coming from but don't you think some of these guys are being coddled just a little too much? The NBA is a business like any other business.

What should they do for Darius Miles, hire a babysitter? These are young guys (but still legally adults) who have to take responsibility for their actions. When I was 18 and I made a mistake I paid for it. When NBA players are 18 and make a mistake, they are not held accountable by apologists. The cycle needs to end.

You wanted to play in a man's league, with man's money, then you have to deal with man problems. Bring your parents with you like Maggette and Quentin Richardson did. The NBA gives everything and the world to some of these players and all they can do is complain about what is not there for them.

Can anyone answer why Darius Miles was out shooting a dumb crappy movie when he could have easily been working on his game a few summers back? Priorities man, priorities.


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## FeloniusThunk (Jan 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Talkhard</b>!
> 
> 
> I'm not trying to make any point. I'm trying to understand why black men would call themselves a hated word that the white man used to oppress them, humiliate them, and dehumanize them. I truly don't understand it. Do you?


This isn't that hard, and I probably shouldn't bother with such clear bait, but I'm weak-willed.

In the Navy, we would occasionally call each other squids, but it was fighting words from any other branch. At work now we will sometimes joke by calling each other code monkeys, though it would be demeaning for anyone not an associate to say that.

The in-group reinforces their group status through jargon and sometimes even jargon that is forbidden to those outside the group. Doctors won't get mad at you for throwing around medical terms, but I wouldn't call a marine a jarhead unless you're in a marine uniform yourself.


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## Tommyboy (Jan 3, 2003)

its kind of funny that mean old bad-*** white guy Rush Limbaugh says Donovan McNabb is overrated cuz he's black (doesn't use the N-word) and gets fired for it meanwhile poor downtrodden victim black man $17mil per year NBA player Rasheed Wallace says explicitly the NBA takes advantage of n****rs, especially young n****rs and its no big deal.


lol at the double standard based on skin color.


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## barfo (Jan 2, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Tommyboy</b>!
> its kind of funny that mean old bad-*** white guy Rush Limbaugh says Donovan McNabb is overrated cuz he's black (doesn't use the N-word) and gets fired for it meanwhile poor downtrodden victim black man $17mil per year NBA player Rasheed Wallace says explicitly the NBA takes advantage of n****rs, especially young n****rs and its no big deal.
> 
> 
> lol at the double standard based on skin color.


maybe it has something to do with the fact that their jobs are rather different? What a broadcaster says defines his job performance. What a ball player says is irrelevant to job performance.

barfo


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## Blazer Ringbearer (Jan 28, 2003)

Rasheed didn't say anything about white people though...

Things would have been easier on Rush if he had said Dirk Nowitsky is overrated because he's white...

I think that it's a fair double standard that you can go a little bit further with people in "your group" than those outside of it.


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## FeloniusThunk (Jan 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Tommyboy</b>!
> 
> lol at the double standard based on skin color.


You just realized there's a double standard? Welcome to earth, I hope you'll like it here.

Try this with other words and see if you can see the difference. An NFL player says "NFL players are a bunch of morons and roid-riders". Broadcaster says "NFL players are a bunch of morons and roid-riders." Any difference?

One might be considered an insight into how players view themselves, and the other would be a mere outsider's opinion at best, and more likely an insult that upsets actual NFL players. Similar rules work for all sorts of groups, whether it's an Irishman joking about bad tempers or lawyers speaking colorfully about being vampires. I'm a little surprised that so many sports writers seem so utterly oblivious to this phenomenon. Too much x-box and not enough mtv, I suppose.

To really veer off topic, though, I don't know why Rush got fired. I thought they paid him _because_ he would say braindead, controversial things.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Talkhard</b>!
> 
> 
> Oh, really? I remember Johnnie Cochran in the O.J. trial telling the jury that the N-word was the most vile and hated word in the English language for a black person. If that's true, why wouldn't young black men be offended by it?


There's also a substantial difference between a white or, really, non-black person using the term and a black person using it.

That's so common knowledge, it's almost cliché to explain.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Talkhard</b>!
> 
> 
> I'm not trying to make any point. I'm trying to understand why black men would call themselves a hated word that the white man used to oppress them, humiliate them, and dehumanize them. I truly don't understand it. Do you?


First it's worth noting that that's a separate topic. Wallace wasn't using it that way, the way black men use it affectionately among one another. He was using it as an insult, in characterizing the way he believes the league sees the young black men in the lague.

Secondly, oppressed groups often adopt symbols of oppression into their culture, with changed meanings, both to create a stronger bond among each other with a term that was supposed to be divisive, as well as to co-opt the term altogether. Now, it's *their* term and, instead of meaning what white racists wanted it to mean, it means what *they*, black men, want it to mean. That's empowerment...they're not trying to escape a nasty term, they're conquering it.


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## RG (Jan 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Minstrel</b>!
> 
> 
> No. A fair amount of young black men would not be offended by another black man using the term "******"...furthermore, the tone was not that Wallace felt they were all "dumb ******s," but that that's how he felt *the league* saw them.


And you think Stern took liberties with others thoughts?


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>RG</b>!
> 
> And you think Stern took liberties with others thoughts?


I didn't say *which* young black men, or that *all* young black men, are not offended by another black man using the term. Then, you'd have a valid point.

It's a *fact* that _some_ young black men don't have a problem with another black man using the term...if you've never heard black men use the term among each other, you've been too sheltered.


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## RoddneyThaRippa (Jun 28, 2003)

Oh boy, here we go with the "*****" debate. I'm going to try to not get too involved in this but I'll say my piece...

Bottom line: Is the word "*****" offensive whether used by a white or black person? Yes, in my opinion. 

But it goes MUCH further than that and I think that's something some white people do not understand. 

To make a long story short, white man brings black man to America, white man calls black man "*****", some black men adopt this phrase (whether or not they knew better), black man gets set free, the term "*****" sticks and remains rooted in southern culture. 

My dad was born and raised in Mississippi in the 1950s and the 1960s. Everyone called everyone a "*****". What people don't understand is, whether the term is wrong or right, it has become absolutely rooted in southern culture. It's the same as saying "man" in other areas. It has also become a thing to some that distinguishes black people as a whole, and reminds them of how strong they had to be to overcome slavery. My dad left Mississippi for no other place than Minnesota, about as white as a place you could go back in the day. There, he met my mom. She's white. They move to Colorado, another very white place. Now, despite the fact that my dad has been removed from that southern culture, I still hear him slip up sometimes (particularily when we're watching basketball) and say "*****". Whenever he visits home, he says it more frequently. Whenever he visits his brother in Detroit, he says it. With that in mind, he often tells me how stupid and ignorant it is to say the word. This just proves that the word is completely rooted in southern culture. All things considered, is it not a good thing to say? In my opinion, nope. But it has become ensconed in southern culture for other reasons and connotations. 

***** isn't really offensive to me. It's not a word I use and one I'd rather not be called (by a black person, mind you, if a non-black person calls me that...) but I can handle it. The whole topic is weird but I guess it's kinda something you have to be black to fully understand. Just know that, as unfair as it may seem, black people have much more of a right than non-black people to call another black person a *****.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>GQStar10</b>!
> 
> 
> Hap I see where you are coming from but don't you think some of these guys are being coddled just a little too much? The NBA is a business like any other business


no doubt they're coddled too much. That wasn't my point however. It was that David Stern, in the face of someone who had just felt that the league was basically sending him out to the wolfs, as a 19 year old rookie fresh from high school, said that the league had no problems with their youngin's.


> What should they do for Darius Miles, hire a babysitter? These are young guys (but still legally adults) who have to take responsibility for their actions. When I was 18 and I made a mistake I paid for it. When NBA players are 18 and make a mistake, they are not held accountable by apologists. The cycle needs to end.


again, not my point. If say you're 19, and you've never been on your own (as is the case wth many kids at that age) and you're around a bunch of grown men who have been on their own, I bet you'd want some assistance. There needs to be some kind of support system, former players, whatever, that keeps these guys feeling like they're not lost.


> You wanted to play in a man's league, with man's money, then you have to deal with man problems. Bring your parents with you like Maggette and Quentin Richardson did. The NBA gives everything and the world to some of these players and all they can do is complain about what is not there for them.
> 
> Can anyone answer why Darius Miles was out shooting a dumb crappy movie when he could have easily been working on his game a few summers back? Priorities man, priorities.


same reason shaq was. he saw $$ signs in his eyes.


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>RoddneyThaRippa</b>!
> Oh boy, here we go with the "*****" debate. I'm going to try to not get too involved in this but I'll say my piece...
> 
> Bottom line: Is the word "*****" offensive whether used by a white or black person? Yes, in my opinion.
> ...


I think this pretty much sums up the "******" expression used by Sheed...
:yes:


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

Anybody watch the HBO show Curb Your Enthusiasm? In one episode Larry (the main older white guy character) becomes friends with this rapper who goes by "Crazee Eyes." Expressing this friendship, Crazee Eyes starts calling Larry "my ******." Larry is very perplexed and uncomfortable with this but eventually starts calling him "my Caucasian" back... funny stuff from my favorite comedy.

STOMP


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## Tommyboy (Jan 3, 2003)

the word "n***er" is a bad word no matter who uses it. 


street people also commonly use words like "s*it" "f**k" and M*therF***er"...so what? No excuse to talk like that in a formal situation. To a reporter with a microphone....duhhh.


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## marshall (Jun 18, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Tommyboy</b>!
> No excuse to talk like that in a formal situation. To a reporter with a microphone....duhhh.


Did you see what Nate Bishop said. Players curse all the time its just his choice to not use it. 20-30 year old men dont curse on a regular basis? Maybe not some, but in an NBA locker room I will assume you hear alot of cursing. 

The people who are calling him racist are the people anti-Sheed media members target. You all are going to jump at any chance to call him out. Nothing he ever does will please you. I look at Rasheed very fairly, hes wrong sometimes and sometimes hes just misunderstood. Alot of people on this board just dont take the time to form a fair opinion.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>STOMP</b>!
> Anybody watch the HBO show Curb Your Enthusiasm?


The best show on television, you mean?

Yeah, I watch it. I study it. I worship it.

Fourth season starts January 4. Ten new episodes of genius. Whee!

Ed O.


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## mavsman (Jun 11, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>marshall</b>!
> 
> 
> Did you see what Nate Bishop said. Players curse all the time its just his choice to not use it. 20-30 year old men dont curse on a regular basis? Maybe not some, but in an NBA locker room I will assume you hear alot of cursing.
> ...


What a load of crap! Rasheed acts like a complete JackAss and its
everyone elses fault that we don't take the time to try and
understand him.

You know what would please people. If he played basketball,
appreciated the fact that he earns 17 million a year to do it, and
stopped acting like a jerk with a giant chip on his shoulder.

Please tell me exactly when its OK to call someone out. Is there
ever a point in your mind when enough is enough?


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## bfan1 (Mar 5, 2003)

After the Laker loss they could not air interviews with Shaq and Malone because they were too full of swearing...

come on man...get over it. Sheed spoke as many many many others do...this very sentiment has been around a very long time and the language he used is very common today.

Rasheed is not alone in his opinions. He has a right to his opinion-they asked, he answered-like it or not. No-it wasn't a wise move to speak that way but who cares if he did? I am sure there are plenty of people who wouldn't want every one of their words printed in a public newspaper.

This thing is really starting to tick me off. It's a double standard. Rasheed is a basketball player for Pete's sake. A basketball player. That's it. They hound him for not speaking-he tells them he doesn't like to, they force the issue, he speaks, they don't like what he says, and then they all cry about it. It's ridiculous.

I still think the "O" owes it's readers an apology. G. Arnold does. They exhibited very poor judgement and their agenda is glaring.

I used to call the "O" the daily fish wrapper-but it's not worthy of that title.


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