# Sabonis play in Euroleague in 2004?



## Nikos (Jun 5, 2002)

http://www.euroleague.net/plantillas/jugador.jsp?id=AYO&temporada=E03

Sabonis has a Euroleague RANKING of 26.2 in 28mpg in 2003-04. That is awesome. 

How did he do it? Is the Euroleague really that weak of competetion, especially underneath the basket? Sabonis did well in almost every season in the NBA -- he was a great rotational player and starting big to have even in his injured seasons. 

But how can he dominate so easily at his age in the league? Is Euroleague really that bad in terms of big man and overall quality of play? 

How can guys like Ginobili, Nocioni who played in their mid 20s in the Euroleague have much weaker stats yet play as well or better than Sabonis did in the NBA? They clearly did not have 20+RKG like Sabonis. Maybe they played better defense than Sabonis?

Was Sabonis a great defender in 2003-04?

Anyone have any ideas as to why this is?

Thanks

-Nikos


----------



## maradro (Aug 2, 2003)

possible reasons, without having seen any euro league in the past couple years

1) rebounding is weighted heavily in do-it-all stats
2) good bigs are scarce and most are in the NBA, even the scrubbier ones
3) sabonis is a legend and other players fear/respect him too much

as far as noc and gino, they benefit from the new nba perimiter style rules, 3pt shooting has never been their strenghts so in the euro league a zone neutralize them more. and though they had better nba seasons than sabonis, you could argue sabonis was/is still more valuable (and im an argentine homer  )


----------



## starvydas (Jul 16, 2002)

Maybe you've just forgotten how great Sabas a player is and how easily he can fill stats sheets... Check out his stats per minute with the Blazers in his last two seasons in the US (when he played like 15mpg as a sub) and you will see that, statistically, he was one of the 5 most effective bench player in the league. 

The Euros bigs are not that bad, but of course you won't find many specimen that combine size, a solid frame and freakish athleticism like you do in the US. That enabled Sabas to dominate, but more importantly he played in a very unselfish, smart lithuanian team that knew they needed him to ignite plays and lead the offense from the post.


----------



## SianTao (Jul 11, 2005)

> Sabonis has a Euroleague RANKING of 26.2 in 28mpg in 2003-04. That is awesome.
> 
> How did he do it? Is the Euroleague really that weak of competetion, especially underneath the basket?


The way Euroleague rating is calculated (pts - missed attempts + rebs + as - to + stls + blks - blks on - fouls + fouls on), it really favors skilled big men (and Sabonis was one of these undisputedly, both very big and very skilled).
If you can score at a good clip, rebound, draw a lot of fouls and hit your free throws, you'll have a great index rating. And Sabas didn't relly on his athleticism in any part of the game (because he had none after these injuries early in his career), so as long as he has enough stamina for _walking_ twenty-some minutes per game, it doesn't matter if he's 25 or 40 or whatever... 

Btw,
Career NBA stats:
Sabonis - 24.2 mpg, 50% fg, 78.6% ft, 7.3 rpg, 2.1 as, 0.78 stl, 1.05 bl,	1.78	to, 2.7	pf, 12.0 ppg
Manu - 27.0	mpg, 44.8% fg, 78.7% ft, 3.7 rpg, 3.3 as, 1.59 stl, 0.3 bl, 1.94 to, 2.4 pf, 12.9 ppg.
Nocioni - 25.3 mpg, 43.6% fg, 80.6% ft, 5.4 rpg, 1.5 as, 0.47 stl, 0.5 bl, 1.56 bl, 2.8 pf, 10.7 ppg
Sabonis would have clearly the best ranking (by Euroleague formula) of the three thanks to superior rebounding and field goal percentage. And actually I wouldn't call Manu's and Noce's NBA career stats as "better" regardless of what kind of approach to the stats is taken. Manu's rings is another story, but then again, lets not compare Spurs and Jailblazers...
Also this is having in mind that both Argentineans haven't played their stat-averages killing decline seasons yet (and if they decide to stick around as long as Sabonis or Kukoc did, they're really gonna get much worse than now).


----------



## maradro (Aug 2, 2003)

SianTao said:


> Btw,
> Career NBA stats:
> Sabonis - 24.2 mpg, 50% fg, 78.6% ft, 7.3 rpg, 2.1 as, 0.78 stl, 1.05 bl,	1.78	to, 2.7	pf, 12.0 ppg
> Manu - 27.0	mpg, 44.8% fg, 78.7% ft, 3.7 rpg, 3.3 as, 1.59 stl, 0.3 bl, 1.94 to, 2.4 pf, 12.9 ppg.
> ...


when sabonis played the trailblazers were a powerhouse. they were 10 minutes away from beating the lakers and strolling to the title. and while i agree sabonis' nba career is nothing to sneeze at, while manu and noc do get overrated, still sabonis never had a dominant post season the way manu did in 04/05 and Nocioni did in 05/06 (not quite as much as manu but still he carried his team- something sabonis cant say he did for portland)


----------



## Crazy Fan From Idaho (Dec 31, 2002)

Sabonis was ranked #1 in per 48 min stats for the playoffs in his last year playing for the NBA. 

NUMBER ONE. 

Sabonis was great, even though his skills were a mere shadow of what they had been formerly. He compensated for his physical decline by using his size, his passing, and, most of all, his basketball IQ (which is second to none). Through these, he was able to show that greatness in Europe. I followed his homecoming season and was so impressed with what he still was able to do at age 40. 

Sabonis JEGA!!!


----------



## AiQ (Nov 13, 2006)

From what I have read, I understood, that u all have seen Sabas play only in the NBA.
I didn't have the chance to see sabas in his early years aswell, when he played for Zalgiris, but i've seen some games and lots of highlights, because he's jsut the best of the best here, in Lithuania. I always wonder, if only he would've came to NBA at 25 or if only the Soviets wouldn't have used "vitamins" on him, which caused terrible injuries in his early years...

Anyway, let's talk on-topic. I remember that season, it was like a dream come true. Sabas, before leaving Zalgiris (his first and last team) stated that he will play his last season for them, after retiring from Blazers, every person in Lith was wondering about his decision. And so he did, he signed with his team (he's one of the owners of Zalgiris now). Every game that he played in (home or away) was very succesfull in terms of the crowd, arenas were fileld with ppl. He didn't disappoint anybody. Here, u just can find the stats, but his authority amongside teammates and opponents was hudge, nothing but lots and lots of respect. 

Zalgiris' offense and deffense was all about sabas, we played slow positional basketball at opponents court, lettign sabas to rush to the basket, then a pass to him and it's all in his hands, he either shoots a non-blockable hook or makes an amazing dish to open teammates. Something similliar was at the defense. Everyone could be much more agressive and defend very closely, cuz they knew: "If my guarded man gets past me, sabas will stop him". That was basically pretty much how we played and we didn't make final four (which i have no doubts Zalgiris would've won) by a miracle, yes, pure miracle. None the less, it was a great season, how he got those numbers, at THAT age, noone can say.

P.S. I have a 150 mb mix of sabas action in that season somewhere in my CDs...PM me about it and i'll try to find it.

Just for the record, if he didn't have sustained those terrible injuries, he would've been getting those numbers (even better) in the NBA


----------



## bbasok (Oct 30, 2005)

please don'treply to the old threads lol!


----------



## AiQ (Nov 13, 2006)

Sorry, didn't check the date, i just couldn't stop myself from posting on this ;p

This board ain't that active anyway.


----------



## Real (Aug 3, 2005)

What the hell happened to Sabonis anyway?


----------



## knicksfan (Jan 4, 2003)

AiQ said:


> From what I have read, I understood, that u all have seen Sabas play only in the NBA.
> I didn't have the chance to see sabas in his early years aswell, when he played for Zalgiris, but i've seen some games and lots of highlights, because he's jsut the best of the best here, in Lithuania. I always wonder, if only he would've came to NBA at 25 or if only the Soviets wouldn't have used "vitamins" on him, which caused terrible injuries in his early years...
> 
> Anyway, let's talk on-topic. I remember that season, it was like a dream come true. Sabas, before leaving Zalgiris (his first and last team) stated that he will play his last season for them, after retiring from Blazers, every person in Lith was wondering about his decision. And so he did, he signed with his team (he's one of the owners of Zalgiris now). Every game that he played in (home or away) was very succesfull in terms of the crowd, arenas were fileld with ppl. He didn't disappoint anybody. Here, u just can find the stats, but his authority amongside teammates and opponents was hudge, nothing but lots and lots of respect.
> ...


I'm sorry but what did you mean when you said the soviets used "Vitamins" on Sabonis?


----------



## AiQ (Nov 13, 2006)

Sabas was about 20 when he went to Moscow, so that he could show his talent to USSR national team coaches.

It is well known that soviets wanted to be the best everywhere, in sports aswell. So they used dope on sportsman, including Sabonis to make them better. Officially, it was vitamins, but they caused those terrible injuries on Sabas' Achilles tendon. There was even a possibility that he'll never play again. The reabilitation took 1.5 year and after that, he was still good, but not as good as before.


----------



## Crazy Fan From Idaho (Dec 31, 2002)

bbasok said:


> please don'treply to the old threads lol!


There's no statute of limitations on replies. 

His comments were excellent.

Sabonis JEGA!!!!!!!


----------

