# Game thread, Raptors vs Bulls, 7:30, CSN, UC, Feb 13, 2007



## narek (Jul 29, 2005)

> When Chicago ended a 16-game losing streak to Toronto more than four years ago, the win began a run of complete Bulls domination in the series. Now Chicago looks to equal the Raptors' earlier win streak against it when the teams meet at the United Center on Tuesday night.
> 
> The Bulls ended the Raptors' run in the series with a 96-83 victory on Dec. 18, 2002. That win, Chicago's first over Toronto since Feb. 28, 1999, was the first of 15 in a row for the Bulls against the Raptors.
> 
> ...


http://www.nba.com/games/20070213/TORCHI/preview.html


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

http://www.basketballforum.com/showthread.php?p=4483333

Bulls try to improve East's best home record 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Toronto (27-24) at Chicago (29-23) 8:30 pm EST

CHICAGO (Ticker) -- The Chicago Bulls are glad to be home, even 
if they are playing one of the hottest teams in the league.

Coming off a 3-4 road trip, the Bulls hope to improve on the
Eastern Conference's best home record when they take on the
Toronto Raptors on Tuesday.

After winning 16 in a row in the series from February 28, 1999
to December 18, 2002, the Raptors have lost 15 straight contests
against the Bulls, including the first two meetings this
season.

Chicago plays six of its next nine games at the United Center,
where it holds the conference's top mark at 20-6. It was not as
easy on the road for the Bulls, who snapped a three-game losing
streak with a 116-103 win over undermanned Phoenix on Sunday.

Kirk Hinrich and Luol Deng scored 29 points apiece and Ben
Gordon added 27 for Chicago, which took advantage of the absence
of two-time MVP Steve Nash. The Bulls have won three straight
and five of their last six at home.

It will not be easy against the first-place Raptors, who are 
2 1/2 games ahead of New Jersey in the woeful Atlantic
Division. Toronto has won five of its last six games and is 
over .500 this late in the season for the first time since 
finishing 42-40 in 2001-2002 - the last time the franchise 
reached the playoffs.

On Saturday, however, Toronto had its five-game winning streak
snapped when it suffered a 98-92 loss at Detroit. All-Star
Chris Bosh, who is having an MVP-caliber season, was held to
just 14 points on 5-of-15 shooting. T.J. Ford collected 17
points and 11 assists.


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## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

Yay, P.J. is back as the starting PF next to Big Ben Wallace!!! :yay:


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## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

Chandler already has 9 REBOUNDS in 8 MINUTES. SCARY.


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## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

bullybullz said:


> Chandler already has 9 REBOUNDS in 8 MINUTES. SCARY.


Against GASOL. HAHA.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

bullybullz said:


> Against GASOL. HAHA.


Maybe if Chandler has an insane, like 30 rebound game, it'll be the straw that broke the camels back.


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## lister333 (May 6, 2003)

lets crush them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## theanimal23 (Mar 2, 2005)

Is this on TVU or Sopcast?


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## rwj333 (Aug 10, 2002)

PJ got two fouls early. Tyrus in.


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## lister333 (May 6, 2003)

threeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee by gordon


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## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

I don't do this TVU or Sopcast thing but if you want to watch the game go to viidoo.com and type in 45605 and then press play. It works.


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## TripleDouble (Jul 26, 2002)

TVU has the game on Chicagovision.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

So, I had tickets to the game tonight. Due to the blizzard, I could not even give them away for free tonight. Crazy. You'd have thought I was asking people if I could kick their puppy.


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## step (Sep 19, 2005)

> I don't do this TVU or Sopcast thing but if you want to watch the game go to viidoo.com and type in 45605 and then press play. It works.


Swoit.


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## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

step said:


> Swoit.


Sure, any way I can help.


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## TripleDouble (Jul 26, 2002)

bullybullz said:


> I don't do this TVU or Sopcast thing but if you want to watch the game go to viidoo.com and type in 45605 and then press play. It works.


I entered the number and pressed play and nothing happend. Any ideas?


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## TripleDouble (Jul 26, 2002)

What has happened to the Bulls defense?


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## lister333 (May 6, 2003)

threeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee by duhon


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## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

TripleDouble said:


> I entered the number and pressed play and nothing happend. Any ideas?


45605?? It worked for me...


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## step (Sep 19, 2005)

> I entered the number and pressed play and nothing happend. Any ideas?


Worked for me, required a heck of a lot of upload speed. Ended up scratching it and updating my version of tvuplayer, go to the same channel number and it worked fine.


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## lister333 (May 6, 2003)

threeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee by duhon again.........


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## PowerWoofer (Jan 5, 2006)

The Bulls suck right now!

Ben Gordon has vanished into thin air. Had two 3-pointers, but this team has done jack s*** tonight.

BLOOD ON THE GOD DAMN HORNS!!!!!


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## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

Deng's performance so far is why we DON'T trade him.


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## eymang (Dec 15, 2006)

so wished we would've traded up for bargs


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## lister333 (May 6, 2003)

Tyrus thomas sin he had shaved his head looks a lot like John Sally without googles.


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## lister333 (May 6, 2003)

Tyrus thomas since he had shaved his head looks a lot like John Sally without googles.


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## step (Sep 19, 2005)

Hinrich for thweeeeee


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## lister333 (May 6, 2003)

threeeeeeeeeeeeeeee by hinrich raptors by 5.


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## rwj333 (Aug 10, 2002)

Hopefully Gordon has a good game one of these days...


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## step (Sep 19, 2005)

Nice reach by Duhon, oh i'm loving this tvuplayer, pity I can't watch for much longer


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## lister333 (May 6, 2003)

period over raptors by five.


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## PowerWoofer (Jan 5, 2006)

Free throws and defense are killing the Bulls.

It's like 2-2 FT for the Bulls, and 19/20 for the Raptors.
Probably not exact numbers, but damn it, the Bulls better start playing better basketball in the 2nd half!


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

Every time I see this Deng kid play I wonder how the Bulls would consider trading him for a fair weather guy like Gasol (if in fact they have).


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

Bargs almost posterized Tyrus Thomas earlier in the game. Impressive game so far by Bargs and what the hell is up with Skiles pulling VK after that awesome dunk?


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## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

Chandler has 14 points and 20 REBOUNDS (in 29 minutes). Completely OWNING GASOL.


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## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

bullybullz said:


> Chandler has 14 points and 20 REBOUNDS (in 29 minutes). Completely OWNING GASOL.


Oh, 10 defensive rebounds and 10 OFFENSIVE REBOUNDS. WOW.


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## rwj333 (Aug 10, 2002)

Jeez PJ Brown sucks.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

bullybullz said:


> Chandler has 14 points and 20 REBOUNDS (in 29 minutes). Completely OWNING GASOL.


Chandler has held Gasol to only 3 of 10 shooting but Gasol is making up for it with 13 rebounds and 3 blocks. 

16 rebounds per game to go along with 12 points per for Chandler in the month of Feb. Man its a good thing we got the better out of that PJ Brown trade.


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## RoRo (Aug 21, 2002)

omg deng with two nice off the dribble moves. the last one was smooth, switching hands to avoid the defense.


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## lister333 (May 6, 2003)

Deng rolling tied game baby!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

We shouldn't trade for Gasol. Both Gordon and Deng are better. Maybe if Memphis throws in Gay, then we do it.

Anyhow, yeah, how about trading for that Tyson Chandler guy...he's pretty beastly.


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## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

Bulls playing a lot better defense with P.J. on the floor.


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

I don't think the trade is going to happen.

Luol Deng is playing with a PURPOSE


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## RoRo (Aug 21, 2002)

c'mon wallace. now is not the time to look for your offense. and wtf malik, remember your man can hit three's try to stay close.


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## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

As soon as P.J. goes to the bench the Raptors start making threes... Why put in Malik?? P.J. was fine!!!!!!! Dumb Skiles. Just DUMB!!


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## CanadianBull (May 6, 2006)

For God sakes, stop running plays for Ben fackin Wallace and Malik fackin Allen. It's embarrassing to watch.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

With the supposed unlimited potential that Tyrus Thomas has do you think Memphis would hypothetically speaking do a straight up trade involving Thomas for Gay?


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## TripleDouble (Jul 26, 2002)

This team will not go anywhere -- Gasol or no Gasol -- with this kind of terrible defense.


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## TripleDouble (Jul 26, 2002)

And why is Malik Allen playing over Thomas?


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

For the love of God I hope Red and company will stop calling Ben Wallace "THE BODY" ARGH its the worst nickname in all of sports. It drives me crazy.


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## chibul (Oct 14, 2006)

I said it a few days ago, and I said it again. This team will never win an NBA championship with Scott Skiles as the head coach.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

TripleDouble said:


> This team will not go anywhere -- Gasol or no Gasol -- with this kind of terrible defense.


Just wait untill we sign that Ben Wallace guy I hear hes a defensive FORCE! .... Oh wait Never Mind.


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## rosenthall (Aug 1, 2002)

Yikes. Malik Allen is making Marcus Fizer blush with the way he's shooting the ball.


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## TripleDouble (Jul 26, 2002)

One of the worst games of the season to watch. This team shows no desire to stop the other team from scoring.


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## OziBull (Nov 7, 2004)

Im sick and tired of Skiles!
Why is Malik Allen and even PJ Brown playing ahead of this kid!?
He has potential and contributes more than them now! PLAY HIM!
It frustrates me so much that i wonder what our team would be like with a different coach sometimes


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

chibul said:


> I said it a few days ago, and I said it again. This team will never win an NBA championship with Scott Skiles as the head coach.


I really think that Skiles is a top 3 coach in the NBA but he drives me crazy when he doesnt play Gordon the 40 minutes he should get everynight. Iam starting to think that we will never win a Championship with Pax as GM.


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## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

Nice finish to the 3rd but that sequence of plays by Malik is why I don't understand Skiles took out P.J. Just really DUMB.


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## rwj333 (Aug 10, 2002)

Wow, that was a fantastic drive by Kirk. Calderon was defending him pretty well and I was afraid it was going to be an off-balance last second jumper at first. Beautiful.


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## TripleDouble (Jul 26, 2002)

Hinrich has played elite basketball for the past month or so. I wonder what the deal was earlier.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

thebizkit69u said:


> I really think that Skiles is a top 3 coach in the NBA but he drives me crazy when he doesnt play Gordon the 40 minutes he should get everynight. Iam starting to think that we will never win a Championship with Pax as GM.


Skiles is one of the worst coaches in the NBA.

He has the worst sub patterns and awful play calls. His offensive sets are pathetic.

He also seems to get the very least out of his players. (looks at Eddy and Tyson blowing up, Wallace playing like garbage.)


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

Mebarak said:


> Skiles is one of the worst coaches in the NBA.
> 
> He has the worst sub patterns and awful play calls. His offensive sets are pathetic.
> 
> He also seems to get the very least out of his players. (looks at Eddy and Tyson blowing up, Wallace playing like garbage.)


Iam 50/50 on the not getting the best of his players part I mean Gordon and Deng have improved each and every year.

But I 100% dissagree with what you said about his sets and play calls, hes one of the best in the game when it comes to setting up plays and such. But his sub patterns are mind boggling.


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## rosenthall (Aug 1, 2002)

Damn, Luol has Reggie Miller's shooting touch and Malik Allen's conscience tonight.


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## rwj333 (Aug 10, 2002)

The game seems close because the Bulls are scoring, but Toronto is scoring at will, too.


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## CanadianBull (May 6, 2006)

Dammit I hate the Raptors, especially their play-by-play guy, but Bosh is turning into something special. Calderon is impressive too.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

rosenthall said:


> Damn, Luol has Reggie Miller's shooting touch and Malik Allen's conscience tonight.


too bad he doesnt have Adrian Griffins killer cross-over tonite.


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## TripleDouble (Jul 26, 2002)

I usually support Skiles but I cannot see any reason why Thomas has only played seven minutes after playing pretty well in his previous games and against a team with mobile bigs. Makes absolutely zero sense to me.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

I dont know why so many of you guys are mad that the Raptors are scoring, I predicted that the Raptors would challenge for a playoff spot and would be a much better team before the season started and many of you people laughed, but this is a good team with a legit star on their team. 

Bulls need to play their game right now to beat them.


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## lister333 (May 6, 2003)

threeeeeeeeeeeee by hinrich raptors by 5


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

TripleDouble said:


> I usually support Skiles but I cannot see any reason why Thomas has only played seven minutes after playing pretty well in his previous games and against a team with mobile bigs. Makes absolutely zero sense to me.


Because he cant guard anyone on the Raptors right now without fouling, the guy has more fouls in 7 minutes then he does points.


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## OziBull (Nov 7, 2004)

What the hell is the logic behind having Hinrich, Gordon and Duhon in there matching up against cauldron who is 6,3, Mopete 6'7 and Parker who is 6'6


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

Tyrus Thomas is going to come into the game, I bet 5 bucks that he will foul someone before he scores.


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## OziBull (Nov 7, 2004)

thebizkit69u said:


> Because he cant guard anyone on the Raptors right now without fouling, the guy has more fouls in 7 minutes then he does points.


M.Allen has more fouls than points, PJ brown has 2 fouls 2 points, whats your point?


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

I feel bad for Ben, Kirk, and Luol (and Noc when he's here) for having to put up for the deadweight of a frontcourt. There is no reason why the frontcourt should be so useless.


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## CanadianBull (May 6, 2006)

Well they were bound to win one eventually. Looks like tonight is the night for the Raps.


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## rwj333 (Aug 10, 2002)

Calderon just destroyed the Bulls on consecutive drives.


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## rosenthall (Aug 1, 2002)

I can't watch too much of the game, can someone tell me, are the Raptors just hot or are we just unable to guard our shadow tonight?


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

OziBull said:


> M.Allen has more fouls than points, PJ brown has 2 fouls 2 points, whats your point?


PJ and Allen are useless, Iam not about to say the same about Tyrus.


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## TripleDouble (Jul 26, 2002)

The Bulls came back from the West Coast thinking they were the Seattle Supersonics.


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## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

Why isn't P.J. on the FLOOR!! The defense right now is PATHETIC without P.J.!!!


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

thebizkit69u said:


> Iam 50/50 on the not getting the best of his players part I mean Gordon and Deng have improved each and every year.
> 
> But I 100% dissagree with what you said about his sets and play calls, hes one of the best in the game when it comes to setting up plays and such. But his sub patterns are mind boggling.


Skiles offensive set is awful. It involved Gordon and Deng standing in a corner. We ran a similiar playset in middle school, only we had the guys at the wings (like a normal team), and we were only a .500 team, just average, like the Bulls, because that offensive set sucks when you don't have a dominant big like Duncan or Shaq that can score, and pass.

Then his end of game calls are the worst. Thank goodness Gordon and Nocioni have stepped up and saved our butts on occasions in the clutch (and Kirk too). Because these plays he calls at the end of games are awful.


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## TripleDouble (Jul 26, 2002)




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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO I lost 5 bucks.


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## OziBull (Nov 7, 2004)

thebizkit69u said:


> PJ and Allen are useless, Iam not about to say the same about Tyrus.


Yeh i know mate, Allen and Brown are useless and it is killing me to see Tyrus after having not a bad game just getting dogged on the bench, yes he is foul friendly but heck stick him in there in fourth, instead of goin stupid small ball against a big team , its stupid


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

Mebarak said:


> Skiles offensive set is awful. It involved Gordon and Deng standing in a corner. We ran a similiar playset in middle school, only we had the guys at the wings (like a normal team), and we were only a .500 team, just average, like the Bulls, because that offensive set sucks when you don't have a dominant big like Duncan or Shaq that can score, and pass.
> 
> Then his end of game calls are the worst. Thank goodness Gordon and Nocioni have stepped up and saved our butts on occasions in the clutch (and Kirk too). Because these plays he calls at the end of games are awful.


No way dude, has he made some of the best plays out of timeouts and when the offense is ran perfectly the Bulls play beautifully.


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## CanadianBull (May 6, 2006)

rosenthall said:


> I can't watch too much of the game, can someone tell me, are the Raptors just hot or are we just unable to guard our shadow tonight?


Combination of both. Raptors are getting wide open shots for a good percentage of their baskets. Ball movement is quite good for them, especially when Calderon is on the floor. They got some deadly offensive players that's for sure.


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## eymang (Dec 15, 2006)

What is Tyrus doing shooting a jump shot


and why is Kirk gunshy


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

TripleDouble said:


>


Soup and a Wink, the life of an NBA Superstar.


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## RoRo (Aug 21, 2002)

after a couple passes our guys casually drift towards the paint. i guess against most teams that's the right tendency to have. but against the raps not so much, they're getting wide open threes and they've been hitting them everytime we try to make a run.


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## rwj333 (Aug 10, 2002)

OziBull said:


> What the hell is the logic behind having Hinrich, Gordon and Duhon in there matching up against cauldron who is 6,3, Mopete 6'7 and Parker who is 6'6


Thomas is doing pretty okay. 

Bulls still down by 10!


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## OziBull (Nov 7, 2004)

Tyrus comes in and instantly sparks the team with offensive rebounds a dunk
Skiles is a dumb fool


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## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

Nice hustle by Tyrus!! Where is P.J.?????!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

eymang said:


> What is Tyrus doing shooting a jump shot


He thinks hes in the 3 point shooting contest, man he needs that cash prize.


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## RoRo (Aug 21, 2002)

tyrus slow down son!


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## PowerWoofer (Jan 5, 2006)

This game proves how bad we need a post player. Gasol, KG, anyone.

Look, we could end up facing the Raps in the playoffs, and even if we have had two years experience, THIS TEAM IS BETTER THAN US. That shouldn't be!!

Anyone else listening. Because this Bulls team is severely outmaatched against teams like Toronto. And they aren't the only team like that. We are going to get killed in the playoffs, if we can even make it that far.

Pax seriously has to make a trade, and for a good big. We are getting killed night in and night out. Big Ben can't do it on defense and be expected to do anything on offense.

We need a big, no matter what people think of our core and how we should wait.


WE'VE BEEN WAITING FOR THREE YEARS!! I'M TIRED OF WAITING!!!!!!


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

PUT THE BALL IN GORDONS HANDS, the best move that Skiles could do right now.


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## CanadianBull (May 6, 2006)

Is Tyrus on Speed, like constantly? Everytime he handles the ball, it looks he's handling it for the first time. Damn son, take it easy.


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## TripleDouble (Jul 26, 2002)

PowerWoofer said:


> This game proves how bad we need a post player. Gasol, KG, anyone.


The Raptors have scored 110 points on 56% shooting and the Bulls have scored 105 on 53% shooting. How do does this prove the Bulls need a post player? They need to play defense.


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## RagingBulls316 (Feb 15, 2004)

Skiles decided to play some zone about 3 quarters too late. Should have tried that way earlier, to get them out of their pick and roll game.


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## OziBull (Nov 7, 2004)

OT- Tyson Chandler tonight against gasol got- 17 points, 23 rebounds 2 blocks , Gasol -11 points 15 boards 3 blocks 3 assists


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## RoRo (Aug 21, 2002)

duhon so clutch! gordan drew the double team and made the easy pass. gj!


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## bball_1523 (Dec 16, 2006)

OziBull said:


> OT- Tyson Chandler tonight against gasol got- 17 points, 23 rebounds 2 blocks , Gasol -11 points 15 boards 3 blocks 3 assists


Why did Tyson have to go!?!?! lol


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## rwj333 (Aug 10, 2002)

Duhon!!!!!!!


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

This team would be so much better if Ben Gordon was the primary ball handler, he gets doubled and he dishes it off to the open man. He creates so many more open shoots for his players than Hinrich does, not because Hinrich is bad but other teams just respect Ben Gordons offense more. 

PS. SHUT THE HELL UP Stacy, we know they are in the zone!


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## RagingBulls316 (Feb 15, 2004)

Turnover....2 point game, 21 seconds left. Bulls ball. Come on Gordon!


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## RoRo (Aug 21, 2002)

i'm speechless. to even be in this position. and yeah skiles should've went to this zone alot earlier. 0-7 and 1 to for the raptors the last 8 possesions.


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## rosenthall (Aug 1, 2002)

Du is en fuego!!!


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## RoRo (Aug 21, 2002)

thebizkit69u said:


> This team would be so much better if Ben Gordon was the primary ball handler, he gets doubled and he dishes it off to the open man. He creates so many more open shoots for his players than Hinrich does, not because Hinrich is bad but other teams just respect Ben Gordons offense more.
> 
> PS. SHUT THE HELL UP Stacy, we know they are in the zone!


rofl. stacy gets a bit repetitive now and then


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## bball_1523 (Dec 16, 2006)

and 1 bg


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## RoRo (Aug 21, 2002)

gordan and 1! hit this ft. wow i'm shock...


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## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

Great dishes by Gordon!! Du better make those 3's to make up for that PATHETIC shooting slump.


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## CanadianBull (May 6, 2006)

Ben!


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

RoRo said:


> i'm speechless. to even be in this position. and yeah skiles should've went to this zone alot earlier. 0-7 and 1 to for the raptors the last 8 possesions.


No he called for the zone at the exact right time, you play zone during the 3rd quarter the Raptors would have figured it out by mid 4th quarter. Perfect Timing. 

BEN GORDON IS ON FIRE!


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## OziBull (Nov 7, 2004)

Ben Gordon!!!!!! You lil champion!


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## bball_1523 (Dec 16, 2006)

lol, just watch, this is where the bulls just cannot keep their flow going...they are up by 1, but raptors are probably going to hit a dagger. For some reason the bulls can't handle these games, but let's see what happens!


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## RoRo (Aug 21, 2002)

thebizkit69u said:


> No he called for the zone at the exact right time, you play zone during the 3rd quarter the Raptors would have figured it out by mid 4th quarter. Perfect Timing.
> 
> BEN GORDON IS ON FIRE!


if we win then i agree wholeheartedly.
we lose and the floodgates of second guessing open wide.


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## RagingBulls316 (Feb 15, 2004)

Bulls with the lead! Wow. Got to stay in the zone and get a stop!


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## eymang (Dec 15, 2006)

did you guys know we're in the zone


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## rosenthall (Aug 1, 2002)

Ben Gordon is an ice cold muthah.


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## chibul (Oct 14, 2006)

thebizkit69u said:


> I really think that Skiles is a top 3 coach in the NBA but he drives me crazy when he doesnt play Gordon the 40 minutes he should get everynight. Iam starting to think that we will never win a Championship with Pax as GM.


Calling Scott Skiles a top 3 coach in the NBA is like calling Andres Noiconi a top 5 player in the NBA.

They're good, but nobody will confuse them for greatness.

Skiles, at times, is absolutely clueless.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

Why do I feellike Bargs will shoot this one,.


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## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

This is why the Bulls should not trade Gordon!!!!!!


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## rwj333 (Aug 10, 2002)

What is that, an 11-0 run by the Bulls?


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## RoRo (Aug 21, 2002)

Tyrus Thomas with the huge block. now wth...thomas with a foul?! bullllllshhhh


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## eymang (Dec 15, 2006)

And ****


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

bullybullz said:


> This is why the Bulls should not trade Gordon!!!!!!


Or Deng...or Hinrich. Keep the core 4 in tact, trade Ben Wallace to a Western conference contender, and get capspace, and go after Darko this offseason.


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## RagingBulls316 (Feb 15, 2004)

Officials bail them out...Bullcrap.


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## bball_1523 (Dec 16, 2006)

game over, the bulls just can't hang with these last second games


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## CanadianBull (May 6, 2006)

Sweet block by Tyrus but it was a foul afterwards. Damn.


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## RoRo (Aug 21, 2002)

good job refs waiting for bosh to miss his shot. give them fts and make us lose a second.


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## McBulls (Apr 28, 2005)

We wuz robbed by the refs!:rant:


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## bball_1523 (Dec 16, 2006)

the bulls just flat out suck, they are so mediocre it isn't funny.


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## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

Painful loss.


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## OziBull (Nov 7, 2004)

I feel sorry for Gordon sometimes


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

McBulls said:


> We wuz robbed by the refs!:rant:


No it was a foul plain and simple. Bulls should have got the rebound, no excuses it was just a tough loss.


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## CanadianBull (May 6, 2006)

Was that a foul on the last play? I only got 1 look at it. Tough loss but we really didn't deserve that one regardless.


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## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

Wasn't Gordon FOULED!!!??


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

0-10 in the Zone and we still Lost.

Atleast Stacy got to say Zone alot.


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## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

And I love BG but he's missed all his potential GWs badly this season. Seems like he often goes into traffic rather than going away from it. Result is usually airball.

Sucks to lose like that after such an incredible comeback


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## PowerWoofer (Jan 5, 2006)

Bulls deserved to lose. They played like ---- all game, and they lost it when it mattered. Why? Because WE HAVE NO BIG MEN WHO CAN DO THEIR DAMN JOB WHEN WE NEED THEM TO!!!

The Raptors got almost every damn 3-pointer they shot, they got every foul call, almost.

They got everything, and WE LOST!!!!!!!

Pax, this team needs to be shaken up. AND NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

please do not mask. speedy.


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## BullsAttitude (Jun 11, 2002)

I was wrong, I thought refs let players determine the game at the end. The called the foul on Thomas, but nothing for Gordon at the end, amazing!!! Great comeback, we just let Toronto have too many open shots tonight.


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## lister333 (May 6, 2003)

I´m sick and tired of bad officiating. this is becoming a joke. Thy stole 1.2 sec of the game and invented that foul on Bosh. The Bulls organization should do something.


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## JeremyB0001 (Nov 17, 2003)

Is there really a near consensus that Bosh wasn't fouled? After watching the replay Funk said it was clearly a foul.

Edit: On second thought even if he was fouled that doesn't mean we weren't screwed by the refs considering how often we suffer from the "let them play" treatment in the final minutes.


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## rwj333 (Aug 10, 2002)

SPMJ said:


> And I love BG but he's missed all his potential GWs badly this season. Seems like he often goes into traffic rather than going away from it. Result is usually airball.
> 
> Sucks to lose like that after such an incredible comeback


When the Bulls have possesion with less than 3 seconds on the clock at the end of the 4th quarter, he's missed. He's done fine in other situations... see the two Heat games, at Minnesota, etc. 

He's too short to get a shot off effectively in that situation.


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## lister333 (May 6, 2003)

JeremyB0001 said:


> Is there really a near consensus that Bosh wasn't fouled? After watching the replay Funk said it was clearly a foul.


Where bosh was hit?


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

SPMJ said:


> And I love BG but he's missed all his potential GWs badly this season. Seems like he often goes into traffic rather than going away from it. Result is usually airball.


Yeah but he’s made a ton of game tying shots or rallying shots late in fourth quarters, the lack of an inside presence makes the game winning shots hard for a guy like Gordon who has no other options but to shoot it and the other team knows that.


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## PowerWoofer (Jan 5, 2006)

Bulls need to get a package together and get Gasol. It's not gonna get any easier this season, and they will continue to lose games like tonight. I can guarantee it.

They need someone they can go to in the post to get them shots when they need them. The last two seasons they haven't had jack in that department.


Please Paxson, make this trade!!


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## BullsAttitude (Jun 11, 2002)

No, it was a foul, I saw that. I don't get how once again we hit 7 more shots than the Raptors, get up 14 more shots than the Raptors, outrebound them by 10 and still LOSE THE GAME!!!


Free throws

They shot 23 to our 8. 

You can't say we didn't take it to the basket, Luol did that quite a few times tonight, nothing called, even Stacy made a comment on that. The one call where they blew the whistle at the foul line and then let Cauldron take it in a lay it up and count it was BS. TJ Ford walking then falling out of bounds and them calling the foul on Kirk was BS. I'm tired of the refs calling BS calls, sick and tired of it!!!


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## rwj333 (Aug 10, 2002)

JeremyB0001 said:


> Is there really a near consensus that Bosh wasn't fouled? After watching the replay Funk said it was clearly a foul.
> 
> Edit: On second thought even if he was fouled that doesn't mean we weren't screwed by the refs considering how often we suffer from the "let them play" treatment in the final minutes.


It was a ticky-tack foul that shouldn't have been called given that it was at the end of the game. It definitely wouldn't have been called on Ben Wallace or PJ Brown. The officials usually let contact go through. 

But Tyrus has a reputation for stupid fouls so we can't expect him to get that call. And I doubt PJ or Wallace would have blocked Ford's shot.


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## BeZerker2008 (Jun 29, 2006)

why isn't deng or anyone else getting the ball for these shots? It seems as though every (opposing) team knows BG is going to get it. This has happened several times already this season, when has BG made the game winning shot this season? 

I say give it to deng or Hinrich to see if they can hit those shots. It just irritates me losing these frickin games by a point or so. We'd have a far much better record if we won those close games.

DaMMiT!:rant:


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## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

OK Skiles where do I begin!!???

First, why did you take out P.J. in the 3rd quarter?? We were fine on offense and DEFENSE. Then Malik Allen comes in and does nothing but let the Raptors go on a run and start hitting 3's again (Malik pretty much lost the game for the Bulls). Then the Bulls had to come back and go on a run.

Second, why didn't you bring in Big Ben and/or P.J. on the last defensive position. Get Gordon and Duhon out of there!! The Bulls would've for sure gotten that REBOUND!! On the court, it would've been Kirk, Deng, Tyrus, P.J. and Wallace. That would give no SECOND CHANCE OPPORTUNITIES FOR THE RAPTORS. The other reason the Bulls lost was because P.J. didn't play enough (at least 20-30 min).

Skiles sometimes you really strike me as being DUMB.


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## RoRo (Aug 21, 2002)

JeremyB0001 said:


> Is there really a near consensus that Bosh wasn't fouled? After watching the replay Funk said it was clearly a foul.
> 
> Edit: On second thought even if he was fouled that doesn't mean we weren't screwed by the refs considering how often we suffer from the "let them play" treatment in the final minutes.


he was fouled. but the refs didn't call it at that time. they waited to see if bosh would make the shot. he missed and then called it. basically we lost a little over 1 second between the foul and when the foul was called.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

bullybullz said:


> OK Skiles where do I begin!!???
> 
> First, why did you take out P.J. in the 3rd quarter??.



LOL OMG Will you stop with the whole PJ Brown thing, calling for PJ Brown to be in a game is like asking me what color of a sh!t flavored popsicle would I like.

PJ is useless and we still would have lost this game if PJ was out there trying to play zone against far superior players.


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## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

Clearly a foul by Tyrus on Bosh. He deserves the credit for getting the board and making the FT's. 

I have to give props to Duhon for making the tough shots. Big Ben was and is a non-factor on the help d, we let anyone just waltz in the lane and penetrate. Tyrus would have been a better defender inside. 

Overall this was a game the bulls had no business making it close. The raptors played conservative at the end and that almost cost them.


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## RagingBulls316 (Feb 15, 2004)

BeZerker2008 said:


> why isn't deng or anyone else getting the ball for these shots? It seems as though every (opposing) team knows BG is going to get it. This has happened several times already this season, when has BG made the game winning shot this season?


Your crazy, if anything Skiles doesn't go to Gordon enough at the end when we need a game winning shot.

It's tough to get off any good shot with 2 seconds left on the clock.

Gordon put us in position to win that game with his previous shot. And for whatever reason Skiles didn't stay in the Zone that was working so well on that final play, and it costed us.


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## BullsAttitude (Jun 11, 2002)

RoRo said:


> he was fouled. but the refs didn't call it at that time. they waited to see if bosh would make the shot. he missed and then called it. basically we lost a little over 1 second between the foul and when the foul was called.



That is true, that's why the Bulls were so pissed about it. Make the call, don't wait to see if he misses it!!! See, refs do play a part in the games. Bosh is good, will be great but he hasn't won anything, WOW, he is an all-star, he doesn't deserve star treatment yet.

I still can't understand how a cutter like Deng does not get to the line? Boggles my mind sometimes.


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## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

Goes w/o saying but jesus do our big men suck or what. The Raptors bigs flat out raped Malik/PJ/BW/TT.


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## PowerWoofer (Jan 5, 2006)

SPMJ said:


> Goes w/o saying but jesus do our big men suck or what. The Raptors bigs flat out raped Malik/PJ/BW/TT.


Agree 100%. The rook had more points than all of our bigs, I bet. AND HE HIT LIKE 7 THREE POINTERS.


God, I'm ashamed to be a Bulls fan sometimes.


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## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

thebizkit69u said:


> LOL OMG Will you stop with the whole PJ Brown thing, calling for PJ Brown to be in a game is like asking me what color of a sh!t flavored popsicle would I like.
> 
> PJ is useless and we still would have lost this game if PJ was out there trying to play zone against far superior players.


P.J. is not USELESS. If you read my first thread you would know this. He should be the Bulls starting PF over Tyrus, Noc, Malik, Sweets (if you want an explanation, go to the thread that says "My First Thread'). P.J. also needs more minutes.

I don't recall the Raptors hitting 3's and going on a huge run when P.J. was on the court. It was when Malik was there.


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## bre9 (Jan 8, 2006)

Fun game to wacth but Bulls needed this win. The Raptors improved so much since the Bulls played them in they deserved this win. The Bulls three guards Kirk, Ben, and Chris played hard . And Luol play great every game, but there front court really needs help. Toronto had it going inside and out they had Bosh doing all scoring in the inside and they had guy's hitting three's every where outside. The Bulls need a inside scorer so it can take the pressure off the guards to score every minute.


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## chibul (Oct 14, 2006)

lister333 said:


> I´m sick and tired of bad officiating. this is becoming a joke. Thy stole 1.2 sec of the game and invented that foul on Bosh. The Bulls organization should do something.


Agreed. Not whining about the referees and playing better so that they're not IN that type of position would be a start.


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## rwj333 (Aug 10, 2002)

90 of 111 points were scored by Duhon, Gordon, Hinrich, and Deng. Jeez.


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## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

<img src="http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/4995/vlcsnap889601lj3.jpg" width="640 height="60">


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

bullybullz said:


> P.J. is not USELESS. If you read my first thread you would know this. He should be the Bulls starting PF over Tyrus, Noc, Malik, Sweets (if you want an explanation, go to the thread that says "My First Thread'). P.J. also needs more minutes.
> 
> I don't recall the Raptors hitting 3's and going on a huge run when P.J. was on the court. It was when Malik was there.


PJ is garbage, the man regardless if he starts or not is not going to win any games for us. I don’t care if he gets minutes or not because when its all said and done PJ doesn’t improve our chances of winning a game at all.


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## RagingBulls316 (Feb 15, 2004)

If they are going to call that foul on Bosh, Gordon should have got a call too at the end. There was contact, but no whistle.


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## PowerWoofer (Jan 5, 2006)

rwj333 said:


> 90 of 111 points were scored by Duhon, Gordon, Hinrich, and Deng. Jeez.


Which is another reason that we need a big man who can score. We can't expect these guys to do all the heavy lifting. Guys like PJ Wallace and Tyrus disappear when we need them, and don't even get me started on Malik and Sweets. Those guys are walking trade bait, and I'll be glad to see them leave, hopefully sooner rather than later. These guys failed to step it up when we neede them, and their days in a Chicago uniform HAVE GOT to be numbered. If not, then expect us to miss the playoffs, or lose BADLY in the first round.


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## rwj333 (Aug 10, 2002)

bullybullz said:


> P.J. is not USELESS. If you read my first thread you would know this. He should be the Bulls starting PF over Tyrus, Noc, Malik, Sweets (if you want an explanation, go to the thread that says "My First Thread'). P.J. also needs more minutes.
> 
> I don't recall the Raptors hitting 3's and going on a huge run when P.J. was on the court. It was when Malik was there.


PJ is a poor help defender. He has also turned the ball over a lot the past few games. 3 turnovers in 11 minutes tonight. 4 against Sacramento. 6 against Utah. 

I wish Tyrus would learn how to not foul.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

Did you guys see Tyson's 17 and 23 tonight? That would have been nice.

Or what about Eddy Curry's tomahawk jam over the Lakers entire frontcourt?


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## rwj333 (Aug 10, 2002)

Maybe it's the angle, but Tyrus has REALLY skinny legs.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

Mebarak said:


> Did you guys see Tyson's 17 and 23 tonight? That would have been nice.
> 
> Or what about Eddy Curry's tomahawk jam over the Lakers entire frontcourt?


10 points 5 rebounds in only the first quarter and holding big buy Bynum to 1-4 shooting so far. Man I think I would pull my hair out if both Eddy and Tyson have monster games on the same night.


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## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

rwj333 said:


> Maybe it's the angle, but Tyrus has REALLY skinny legs.


I always though Bosh had toothpick legs like Garnett.


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

Everyone besides Deng, Gordon & Hinrich should be tradeable. Hinrich is simply too good of a PG to give up on. It's hard enough to find a great big, let alone a great young PG.


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## Salvaged Ship (Jul 10, 2002)

Summer 2006: "You know, if we can just sign a guy like Ben Wallace our already great defense will be legendary. Also bring in a vet like PJ Brown".

Feb 2007: "Our defense stinks".

How fitting if Pax would switch from his Mercedes to a 1955 Edsel. Because I can hear that old hunk of junk backfiring now, just like bringing in these two old fartsicles who were supposed to solidify the D and rebounding. They are declining, we are hopeless with this front line, and a trade must be made if you want to have a shot this season. This is not the panic button sounding, it is the reality button. If you really think we can do something in the offseason without giving up part of the core, then don't make the trade and accept this team will do NOTHING in the playoffs this year. If you don't think we can get what we need in the offseason without giving up the core, PULL THE TRIGGER PAX. 

If you miss this one, it would be like clanking that 3 pointer in Phoenix back in 93...


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## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

PowerWoofer said:


> Which is another reason that we need a big man who can score. We can't expect these guys to do all the heavy lifting. Guys like PJ Wallace and Tyrus disappear when we need them, and don't even get me started on Malik and Sweets. Those guys are walking trade bait, and I'll be glad to see them leave, hopefully sooner rather than later. These guys failed to step it up when we neede them, and their days in a Chicago uniform HAVE GOT to be numbered. If not, then expect us to miss the playoffs, or lose BADLY in the first round.


Really, so P.J. DISAPPEREAD against the Mavericks (best team in the league so far) game at home this year when they beat them on a nationally televised game (TNT)?? I don't think so. And how about the Seattle game recently?? He made some big shots, charges, defense and rebounding as well on another nationally televised game (ESPN).


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## JeremyB0001 (Nov 17, 2003)

SPMJ said:


> Goes w/o saying but jesus do our big men suck or what. The Raptors bigs flat out raped Malik/PJ/BW/TT.


I thought Tyrus did alright on Bosh. I'm not sure if his man defense was any good but at least he forced him into a few turnovers.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

bullybullz said:


> Really, so P.J. DISAPPEREAD against the Mavericks (best team in the league so far) game at home this year when they beat them on a nationally televised game (TNT)?? I don't think so. And how about the Seattle game recently?? He made some big shots, charges, defense and rebounding as well on another nationally televised game (ESPN).


Wow you like PJ Brown as much as I dislike Tyrus Thomas.


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## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

rwj333 said:


> PJ is a poor help defender. He has also turned the ball over a lot the past few games. 3 turnovers in 11 minutes tonight. 4 against Sacramento. 6 against Utah.
> 
> I wish Tyrus would learn how to not foul.


P.J. is an average help defender but a great pick-and-roll defender. I also remember Skiles saying that P.J. is the best interior defender on the team (better than Big Ben) and Skiles saying he needs to find more minutes for P.J. and even Skiles questioned himself early in the season when he didn't play him enough.


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## JeremyB0001 (Nov 17, 2003)

bre9 said:


> The Bulls need a inside scorer so it can take the pressure off the guards to score every minute.


I'm at a loss for how we can shoot over 50% and have one of our best offensive games of the season while allowing the opposing team to shoot 10% better than we normally allow and this is somehow evidence that we need post _offense_.


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## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

thebizkit69u said:


> Wow you like PJ Brown as much as I dislike Tyrus Thomas.


No, I'm just stating FACTS. Nothing to do with me LIKING him.


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## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

JeremyB0001 said:


> I'm at a loss for how we can shoot over 50% and have one of our best offensive games of the season while allowing the opposing team to shoot 10% better than we normally allow and this is somehow evidence that we need post _offense_.


Because people are panicking without looking at THE BIG PICTURE.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

At this point, PJ Brown is a better player than Ben Wallace.....because PJ's contract is expiring. We need to trade Wallace ASAP.


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## JeremyB0001 (Nov 17, 2003)

PowerWoofer said:


> Which is another reason that we need a big man who can score. We can't expect these guys to do all the heavy lifting. Guys like PJ Wallace and Tyrus disappear when we need them, and don't even get me started on Malik and Sweets. Those guys are walking trade bait, and I'll be glad to see them leave, hopefully sooner rather than later. These guys failed to step it up when we neede them, and their days in a Chicago uniform HAVE GOT to be numbered. If not, then expect us to miss the playoffs, or lose BADLY in the first round.


I wouldn't say P.J. disappears because that assumes he is playing well in the first place. I thought Tyrus played well down the stretch tonight and Skiles agreed in the post game press conference. The fact that he played Tyrus in that situation says a lot about his increased faith in him and/or his dissatisfaction with P.J.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

bullybullz said:


> No, I'm just stating FACTS. Nothing to do with me LIKING him.


Soooo playing PJ Brown at the end would have won the game for us?


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## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

thebizkit69u said:


> Soooo playing PJ Brown at the end would have won the game for us?


He would've gotten that REBOUND like he did against the Cavs game on LeBron's birthday.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

OK, this is one game where I'll agree the refs cost us big time with letting the clock run off. Don't we have a hometown guy keeping the clock? What the ****?


----------



## TJ Ford (Dec 16, 2006)

spongyfungy said:


> I always though Bosh had toothpick legs like Garnett.


Bosh does have thin legs, but only because he is so tall. And yea, pretty similar to Garnett.


----------



## JeremyB0001 (Nov 17, 2003)

Salvaged Ship said:


> Summer 2006: "You know, if we can just sign a guy like Ben Wallace our already great defense will be legendary. Also bring in a vet like PJ Brown".
> 
> Feb 2007: "Our defense stinks".


Right. The defense is elite but it's not legendary the way some of us thought it might be. Even when I talked up the defense I noted that a problem might be that Wallace would only be so much of an improvement over Chandler defensively and it seems that's what's happening. If we had those two starting next to each other I think the defense might border on legendary.


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## JeremyB0001 (Nov 17, 2003)

Mebarak said:


> Or what about Eddy Curry's tomahawk jam over the Lakers entire frontcourt?


I spent the whole night saying to myself "Man all we need is a tomahawk jam to get back in this game." Seriously though if we had Eddy's stellar interior defense Bosh would've scored six points tops.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

bullybullz said:


> He would've gotten that REBOUND like he did against the Cavs game on LeBron's birthday.


LOL what does PJ Browns rebound on Lebron James birthday has to do with tonites loss?!


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## chibul (Oct 14, 2006)

bullybullz said:


> He would've gotten that REBOUND like he did against the Cavs game on LeBron's birthday.


Is it NECESSARY to EMPHASIZE a particular WORD in each POST you make?


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

JeremyB0001 said:


> I spent the whole night saying to myself "Man all we need is a tomahawk jam to get back in this game." Seriously though if we had Eddy's stellar interior defense Bosh would've scored six points tops.


I know, I'm just thanking the good lord for the former NBA defensive player of year on our team that SHUT DOWN Bosh tonight holding him only to 25 points 14 rebounds and 2 BS, THATS WHAT I CALL Hard Nosed blue collar defense Chicago style!


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## theanimal23 (Mar 2, 2005)

JeremyB0001 said:


> Right. The defense is elite but it's not legendary the way some of us thought it might be. Even when I talked up the defense I noted that a problem might be that Wallace would only be so much of an improvement over Chandler defensively and it seems that's what's happening. If we had those two starting next to each other I think the defense might border on legendary.


So would our offense.

Man, if there is anyway to get Gasol without giving up the Big 3.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

There is NOTHING that we could give Memphis without giving up the BIG THREE.


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## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

thebizkit69u said:


> LOL what does PJ Browns rebound on Lebron James birthday has to do with tonites loss?!


I thought you were talking about the defensive sequence tonight when NONE of the Bulls players BOXED OUT on Bosh. P.J. would've and if he didn't get the rebound, an over-the-back foul probably would be called on Bosh.


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## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

chibul said:


> Is it NECESSARY to EMPHASIZE a particular WORD in each POST you make?


Well, if I feel that its important, than YES.


----------



## RSP83 (Nov 24, 2002)

Mebarak said:


> Did you guys see Tyson's 17 and 23 tonight? That would have been nice.
> 
> Or what about Eddy Curry's tomahawk jam over the Lakers entire frontcourt?


I don't mean to ***** and moan about what has become a past, but why can't Tyson Chandler play like this when he's still with us?

last 10 games he's been averaging 12 ppg, 15 rpg, 2.6 bpg .600 FG%

Tonight he made 8-17 shots. Has he develop a go to move? I haven't seen Tyson play this season. Damn, it hurts to see him putting up monster numbers like that.

I don't care about Eddy Curry, I believe we got the better end of the trade. Plus a Tyson Chandler who averaged 12 ppg, 15 rpg, 2.6 bpg is >>>>>>>>>> than Eddy Curry.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

bullybullz said:


> I thought you were talking about the defensive sequence tonight when NONE of the Bulls players BOXED OUT on Bosh. P.J. would've and if he didn't get the rebound, an over-the-back foul probably would be called on Bosh.


He probably would have fouled Bosh.


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## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

thebizkit69u said:


> He probably would have fouled Bosh.


Not if you're BOXING OUT.


----------



## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

bullybullz said:


> Really, so P.J. DISAPPEREAD against the Mavericks (best team in the league so far) game at home this year when they beat them on a nationally televised game (TNT)?? I don't think so. And how about the Seattle game recently?? He made some big shots, charges, defense and rebounding as well on another nationally televised game (ESPN).


Oh, don't forget when P.J. made 2 clutch free throws against Miami (when Big Ben got hurt) also on another nationally televised game (NBA TV).


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## Babble-On (Sep 28, 2005)

bullybullz said:


> Not if you're BOXING OUT.


Bosh was Thomas' man, so If Pj is in there in his stead on that play, Ford probably scores on that layup Thomas blocked. If Pj is in there instead of anyone else, then he's a definite liability, as he wouldn't have matched up with anyone the Raptors had on the floor.


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## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

Babble-On said:


> Bosh was Thomas' man, so If Pj is in there in his stead on that play, Ford probably scores on that layup Thomas blocked. If Pj is in there instead of anyone else, then he's a definite liability, as he wouldn't have matched up with anyone the Raptors had on the floor.


Yeah but in the previous pages, I said the line-up on the floor should be Kirk, Luol, Tyrus, P.J. and Big Ben. I'm sure either Big Ben or P.J. would've gotten that rebound.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

bullybullz said:


> Not if you're BOXING OUT.


How do you box out when the Bosh is taking it to the basket? There is as much as a good chance of him fouling Bosh as there is he rebounding the ball.


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## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

thebizkit69u said:


> How do you box out when the Bosh is taking it to the basket? There is as much as a good chance of him fouling Bosh as there is he rebounding the ball.


He wasn't taking it to the basket. Ford was. DID YOU WATCH THE GAME???


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

bullybullz said:


> He wasn't taking it to the basket. Ford was. DID YOU WATCH THE GAME???


I was thinking about the play where Bosh was fouled by Thomas after getting blocked the first time.


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## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

thebizkit69u said:


> I was thinking about the play where Bosh was fouled by Thomas after getting blocked the first time.


Huh?? The end, Bosh was never blocked. Ford was. Bosh was blocked but was called for a foul so it is not recorded as a block.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

bullybullz said:


> Huh?? The end, Bosh was never blocked. Ford was. Bosh was blocked but was called for a foul so it is not recorded as a block.


OK so whatever, there is no guarantee that PJ was going to get the rebound, Bosh was right there and I will 99% of the time go with the super star over the super garbage player. Bosh had 14 rebounds to Brown's 2.


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## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

thebizkit69u said:


> OK so whatever, there is no guarantee that PJ was going to get the rebound, Bosh was right there and I will 99% of the time go with the super star over the super garbage player. Bosh had 14 rebounds to Brown's 2.


Yeah but I have previously stated that Kirk, Luol, Tyrus, P.J. and Big Ben should've been on the floor. Do you really think Bosh would've gotten it over P.J. AND Big Ben?????


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

bullybullz said:


> \ Big Ben should've been on the floor. Do you really think Bosh would've gotten it over P.J. AND Big Ben?????


Have you been watching most of the Bulls games this season?! Brown and Ben have been dominated inside by even the most average PF/C in the NBA. Bosh had absolutely no problems starting the game on fire when Wallace and Brown where starting.


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## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

thebizkit69u said:


> Have you been watching most of the Bulls games this season?! Brown and Ben have been dominated inside by even the most average PF/C in the NBA. Bosh had absolutely no problems starting the game on fire when Wallace and Brown where starting.


That's because the opposition goes over the back of both of them (should be a loose-ball foul) but since we know the refs RESPECT the Bulls so much they don't call it (example Phoenix Suns game when Bulls lost by 1 point- Amare kept going over the back of Wallace). True, Bosh did well but at least the Bulls contained the freakin' 3 point line when both were playing today.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

bullybullz said:


> That's because the opposition goes over the back of both of them (should be a loose-ball foul) but since we know the refs RESPECT the Bulls so much they don't call it (example Phoenix Suns game when Bulls lost by 1 point- Amare kept going over the back of Wallace). True, Bosh did well but at least the Bulls contained the freakin' 3 point line when both were playing today.


 And dont you think Ben Wallace and PJ Brown have never gone over the back for their rebounds when they where in their primes? 

Common man, just accept that PJ will be done as a Bull very soon. Move on its getting old.

Wallace and Brown cannot defend offensive minded PF's and Centers its just a fact.


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## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

thebizkit69u said:


> And dont you think Ben Wallace and PJ Brown have never gone over the back for their rebounds when they where in their primes?
> 
> Common man, just accept that PJ will be done as a Bull very soon. Move on its getting old.
> 
> Wallace and Brown cannot defend offensive minded PF's and Centers its just a fact.


Actually when the Bulls played the Clips during the recent road-swing when P.J. guarded Elton Brand and Elton was something on the range of 3 for 9 shooting against P.J. Elton had his way against Sweets and Malik. Also, if you remember and WATCHED the Bulls play against the Spurs (Big Ben was out) P.J. played great defense on Duncan and Skiles said it was "outstanding." Oh yeah, that was another nationally televised game (NBA TV).


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

The Bulls miss Noc. That's what I've learned from the last five or so games.


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## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

such sweet thunder said:


> The Bulls miss Noc. That's what I've learned from the last five or so games.


DAMN RIGHT. We don't need Malik playing like he did against the Raptors.


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## McBulls (Apr 28, 2005)

such sweet thunder said:


> The Bulls miss Noc. That's what I've learned from the last five or so games.


He sure would have helped against the Raptors. Bulls just couldn't defend their pick & roll. Don't know why they didn't play more zone. It worked really well in the second quarter.


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

McBulls said:


> He sure would have helped against the Raptors. Bulls just couldn't defend their pick & roll. Don't know why they didn't play more zone. It worked really well in the second quarter.


I'm almost glad Noc got injured during this strech, even if it did cost the Bull a couple of games. It'll serve as a good reminder of Noc's worth if the powers that be hedge during contract negotiatinos this summer.


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## T.Shock (Feb 11, 2003)

such sweet thunder said:


> I'm almost glad Noc got injured during this strech, even if it did cost the Bull a couple of games. It'll serve as a good reminder of Noc's worth if the powers that be hedge during contract negotiatinos this summer.


One of the reasons I can handle giving up Deng in a deal for Gasol. Nocioni is vastly underrated. Can play the 3/4, knock down the 3 and open 20-footers, lock down a wing scorer on defense.


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## PowerWoofer (Jan 5, 2006)

To the guy who said we don't have bigs that can defend offensive bigs on opposing teams, who's fault is that? I think it's Paxson's fault. He signed a guy who can't do jack on the offensive end, and then he traded away our only productive big for an over-the-hill guy who doesn't get any respect from the refs anymore. He isn't Antonio Davis, and he never will be. He can't do the things Davis did, and he sure as hell doesn't have the same athleticism Davis had for a 37-ish player.

Man I wish Pax would just accept that he effed up big time, get rid of the bad contract and BAD bigs we have, and then get some guys in here who can actually play. It's sad and embarasssing to watch guys like PJ and Sweets get it handed to them on a NIGHLY basis.

So, here is who I think should be on their way out....

-Sweets (Sweetney makes me almost break into tears. he's so useless. people always comment on how he has great post moves, but I haven't seen NOTHING from him this year. Maybe it's because he's NOT as good as you all thought he was, and he's just a fat tub of lard waiting to explode, and he needs to get off this team, because it's an embarassment to have him on the team in the first place.)
-Malik (useless. he was good last year, but he's done. just like Othella was done last year after playing well the season before. Malik's done)
-PJ (he's just done, no matter what)
-maybe even Big Ben, if we're lucky enough to get a younger big. He's just not what we need. He can't play O, and I think we could do better. I don't know who to get or how it could be done, and I can't stand to watch these guys play. They are old and/or useless, and they DON'T belong on the Bulls.


Tyrus is a good project. I don't mind him. Marty's contract should have been bought out a LONG time ago, because he's done. It was a nice try, but it didn't work. Bring in another servicable big and get it done quick! I think that's all of em.

Noce and Deng don't count, since they play SF a lot.




Pax, make this change, and QUICK. Please, for the team's sake!


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## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

PowerWoofer said:


> To the guy who said we don't have bigs that can defend offensive bigs on opposing teams, who's fault is that? I think it's Paxson's fault. He signed a guy who can't do jack on the offensive end, and then he traded away our only productive big for an over-the-hill guy who doesn't get any respect from the refs anymore. He isn't Antonio Davis, and he never will be. He can't do the things Davis did, and he sure as hell doesn't have the same athleticism Davis had for a 37-ish player.
> 
> Man I wish Pax would just accept that he effed up big time, get rid of the bad contract and BAD bigs we have, and then get some guys in here who can actually play. It's sad and embarasssing to watch guys like PJ and Sweets get it handed to them on a NIGHLY basis.
> 
> ...


What about all the intangibles Big Ben and P.J. bring to the Bulls?? Is that USELESS too??


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

Nocioni is not underated, hes a solid player at best and thats about it. He does things that are valuable to the Bulls and I dont think anyone thinks that the Bulls are better off without Nocioni. But if you have a choice of keeping either Deng or Nocioni its a no brainer, Deng is twice the talent and player that Nocioni is.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

bullybullz said:


> What about all the intangibles Big Ben and P.J. bring to the Bulls?? Is that USELESS too??


Yes.


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## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

thebizkit69u said:


> Yes.


WOW..... Didn't see that coming....


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