# Simmons says pick Horford



## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/070620



> 3. Atlanta Hawks
> Al Horford is the third-best prospect, the most NBA-ready rookie outside of Oden and Durant, a potential All-Star and someone who will demand double-teams by the All-Star break of his second season. Since the Hawks don't have a similar player on their roster, you'd think they would make room for him. You would think. Of course, from a comedy standpoint, nothing would be funnier than the Hawks finally picking a point guard (in this case, Mike Conley) during the one draft when they clearly should have taken the best player on the board (Horford). If this happens, we need to schedule a three-on-three game every All-Star Weekend -- Conley, Marvin Williams and Shelden Williams against Chris Paul, Brandon Roy and Horford -- with drunken, bitter Hawks fans announcing the contest with Billy Knight. That could even surpass the Bavetta-Barkley footrace.
> *The VP's verdict:* Take Horford. Please. Just do it.





> 11. Atlanta Hawks
> Nothing would be funnier than seeing them take Jeff Green or Julian Wright here. Repeat: Nothing. But they need a point guard, whether it's Acie Law IV (my personal favorite since he's ready right away) or Javaris Crittenton (the illogical choice because he's another project on a team filled with projects). Naturally, they reportedly love Crittendon. The Hawks never disappoint. We might need to just blow up their team name and reinvent them, kinda like how TNN turned into Spike TV.
> *The VP's verdict:* Swap picks with the Clippers (picking 14th and desperately needing a small forward with size, unless they can splurge for a heart transplant for Tim Thomas between now and next week) and pick up the 45th pick and a 2010 No. 2 for their troubles, then take Law IV at No. 14. Of course, this makes far too much sense and could never happen.


Draftexpress now has Atlanta taking Horford, instead of Wright.


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## different_13 (Aug 30, 2005)

Holford's a better fit imo.
Plus, picking him makes Smith or Childress more expendable, and them and some future pick can make valuable trade-bait (throw in Anthony Johnson - he was playing good minutes for the Mavs last year wasnt he?)

Pachulia/Wright
Holford/S.Williams/S.Jones
M.Williams/J.Childress
J.Johnson/S.Stoudamire
Claxton/Crittenton/Lue

Smith could nab you a decent big, in combination with other pieces of course. 

As for Law/Crittenton. I don't think it matters much which one they take. Besides, imagine the massive line-up of
Pachulia (average)
Holford
j.Smith
J.Johnson
Crittenton

a 6'4/6'7 back-court, 6'9/6'10 frontcourt, and a wiry center..


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

I take it his prediction to take Horford will be well received on this forum, his pick for Portland to take Durant was widely laughed at. The only thing i will say is picking Horford magnifies the mistake taking Shelden Williams, you'll probably get a good player and a fairly high pick in return to move the 3rd pick.


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## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

rainman said:


> I take it his prediction to take Horford will be well received on this forum, his pick for Portland to take Durant was widely laughed at. The only thing i will say is picking Horford magnifies the mistake taking Shelden Williams, you'll probably get a good player and a fairly high pick in return to move the 3rd pick.


Would it make you feel better if Shellhead was traded for Brendan Haywood? He is the 2006 draft's version of Rafael Araujo.

rainman, I enjoy reading your posts. I do, but the majority of the trade proposals you have said have not looked good for Atlanta. Duhon and the #9 for #3 and Bynum for #3? I would rather just stick it out with Horford.


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

TheATLien said:


> Would it make you feel better if Shellhead was traded for Brendan Haywood? He is the 2006 draft's version of Rafael Araujo.
> 
> rainman, I enjoy reading your posts. I do, but the majority of the trade proposals you have said have not looked good for Atlanta. Duhon and the #9 for #3 and Bynum for #3? I would rather just stick it out with Horford.


Glad to see i'm at least amusing you guys. There's two ways of predicting picks, one you try to guess how the mind of a genius like BK works and the other is you say what you would do. In saying they wont want to admit a mistake in picking Horford i'm going with the former method. I also think i would trade the pick, heck i would like to see you guys get Garnett, kobe or Gasol but i dont see that happening. If you can trade down and get a Gordon, Bynum or maybe a Jason Richardson and get a reasonable pick i think you've improved your ballclub. Take another young forward and i think its more of the same.


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## o.iatlhawksfan (Mar 3, 2006)

I'm about 50-50 with either Yi or Horford right now, I get intrigue with hearing Yi could be the next Dirk, but I also get intrigue with hearing Horford can play center, and is the consesus 3rd best player.


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## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

Kobe seems to recognize Bynum's talent, why can't I?


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

TheATLien said:


> Kobe seems to recognize Bynum's talent, why can't I?



Kobe would be the last one i'd expect an objective opinion from.


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## DWADE4 (Aug 18, 2006)

I keep saying it, Horford CAN play the C so they need to draft him at 3. Then trade the 11th pick and get Jose Calderon from the Raptors. Jose is clearly the best PG from who ever the Hawks would select and is ready to start and run a team. 

PG: Jose Calderon
SG: Joe Johnson
SF: Marvin Williams
PF: Josh Smith
C: Al Horford

Better then having two rookies in the line-up and Jose can run the floor which will benefit Josh Smith, Johnson for those 3's, and Marvin Williams. ATL in the playoffs 2008/2009 season.


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## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

I just don't know about Calderon. The Hawks don't really run a European offense. Atlanta needs a point guard who can defend and run an offense. I think Calderon does one of those two things.


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## cpawfan (Jun 20, 2004)

The most obvious PG for the Hawks is in Portland


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

cpawfan said:


> The most obvious PG for the Hawks is in Portland



Dan Dickau?


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

Dissonance19 said:


> Dan Dickau?



:clap:


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## DWADE4 (Aug 18, 2006)

TheATLien said:


> I just don't know about Calderon. The Hawks don't really run a European offense. Atlanta needs a point guard who can defend and run an offense. I think Calderon does one of those two things.


You shouldve've seen some of the playoffs games vs New Jersey. He was our best defender on Kidd, and he ran the offense beautifully. Let me list of some of his positives compared to the negatives. 

Positives = Great floor general, a leader, can hit that open jumper, loves to slash to the basket, great ball distributor, likes to get team mates involved, likes to run the floor, and is good man to man defender, with good ball handling skills. Also has good size for a PG. 

Negatives = Doesnt really have that 3pt shot, but has improved since joining the league, not so athletic, needs to improve 3pt percentage. Besides that hes a great PG and much better then the ones in the draft.


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## different_13 (Aug 30, 2005)

Would either team do that deal?
It COULD work out for both teams. You could also take the view that Calderon's a bit more valuable to the Hawks than the #11 is to the Raptors.
Besides, who would the Raptors select at #11 that makes up for losing a vital piece? They'd have no decent backup point, they'd lost out on all the major players, and is another young pg really what they need?
I think it'd be a step back for Toronto.

I stick by Holford/Crittenton (or Conley if he's available)


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## DWADE4 (Aug 18, 2006)

The Raptors are in serious need of an athletic SF. We could use that 11th pick to select one of these players if still available - Corey Brewer, Jeff Green, Al Thorton, or T. Young. We also might have our European PG coming over who we drafted couple years back Ukic as our back-up PG.


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## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

I think the #11 would be more valuable to any team but Atlanta. Atlanta really has no interest (right, Billy? Right!? Tell me I'm right..) in Julian Wright, Thaddeus Young, Jeff Green, Al Thornton, etc. All good players, but Atlanta already has Smith and Childress.


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## Vincent (Jun 16, 2007)

Draft Mike Conley 

then trade the 11 pick and L wright to Washington 
For Brendon Haywood and 16 pick.and select BPA :side note Haywood no longer wants to play in Washington

HAWK Roster 

pg A.Johnson / M .Conley /T.Lue
SG J.Johnson/Speedy Claxton/S.Stoudomire
SF M.William/J.Childress/
pf J.Smith/S.William/S.Jones
C B.HayWood/zaza/Jason Smith (w/ the 16 select)

Looking at this Line up makes ATL a Half-court team .


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## o.iatlhawksfan (Mar 3, 2006)

Conley's to much of a reach, espcally with players Like Yi and Horford still avaliable.


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## crazyfan (Dec 9, 2005)

Pick Horford at 3. Then pick Noah at 11. Conley is not worth taking at 3


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## timr (Jun 22, 2007)

o.iatlhawksfan said:


> Conley's to much of a reach, espcally with players Like Yi and Horford still avaliable.


Conley JR is a consensus #5 talent so drafting him at #3 is not that much of a reach if you're the Hawks.


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## o.iatlhawksfan (Mar 3, 2006)

hroford, Wright,Yi Jianlian, Brewer, and even Hawes maybe rated ahead of him, he's more in that 7-8 range.


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## timr (Jun 22, 2007)

Not according to NBA.com


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## BDB (Dec 19, 2006)

I like the idea to pick Hortford and trade #11 for Jose Calderon.
He's a good point guard better than Conley will be.

I'd take him over Julian Wright, Brewer and Yi Jianlian you guys have enough talent you need someone to bring it together.


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## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

Conley wouldn't be a huge reach. Supposedly Milwaukee and Memphis are considering him too. Hawks have to look at him. He might be the only player Atlanta is look at with #3 that wouldn't duplicate a position.


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

#11 for Calderon? He is not worth that.


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## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

Do you think Acie Law IV will be better than Calderon? I don't know about that, it might be worth it but I didn't watch many TAMU games.


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

Even if he is not, I don't think Calderon will be much of an impact or help the Hawks out like they need it. I probably wouldn't touch either of em though.


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## o.iatlhawksfan (Mar 3, 2006)

he's a free agent after this upcoming season too, and he'll probably be askig for alot.


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## Mr. Hobbes (Jul 1, 2005)

cpawfan said:


> The most obvious PG for the Hawks is in Portland


How so?


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## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

o.iatlhawksfan said:


> he's a free agent after this upcoming season too, and he'll probably be askig for alot.


Good point. Atlanta will be trying to sign Josh Smith to an extension next season.


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## different_13 (Aug 30, 2005)

In my opinion, if they're gonna sign Josh Smith to a (reasonably) big contract, Marvin Williams has to go. At least Childress can play SG (but would primarily backup Smith at the 3), but with both Holford and Smith on the team, I just don't see any room for Marvin Williams.

Yes, good teams have good bench players. But the Hawks aren't at that level where they can afford to pay high prices for bench players (and Williams would probably command quite a price - i'm not saying he's a bad player, only that he won't fit).
With Smith, Childress and Williams all signed to extensions, the Hawks don't have the room to get that piece they will need to make a serious run at getting to the conference finals - a solid bigman (at the center position).
Eitherway, Marvin should be traded (sign/traded when his extension comes up, by then you can hope he has some value rather than being the guy the Hawks passed on Deron and CP3 for).

let's face it,
Darko/Pachulia/S.Williams
Holford/S.Williams
Smith/Childress
Johnson/Childress/Stoudamire
Law/Lue/Ivey

is better, playoff wise, than

Pachulia/Wright/S.Williams
Holford/M/Williams/S.Williams
Smith/M.Williams/Childress
Johnson/Childress/Stoudamire
Law/Lue/Ivey


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## o.iatlhawksfan (Mar 3, 2006)

Childress won't be back next season, unfortuntly. At 6'10 Horford could play a PF/C type mode, and with Childress being moved that would give Smith some room to play at SF. So i see it like this

C. Al horford/Zaza pachulia/ Shelden williams
PF. J. Smith/Shelden Williams/Al Horford
SF. M.Williams/J.Smith
SG. Joe Johnson/ Salim Stoudamire
Pg. (Acie Law or Crittenton), A. Johnson, S.Claxton


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## BDB (Dec 19, 2006)

TheATLien said:


> Do you think Acie Law IV will be better than Calderon? I don't know about that, it might be worth it but I didn't watch many TAMU games.


Not as a point guard. Acie Law reminds me of Salim Stoudamire or Eddie House.
He's a shooting guard in a point guards body.


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## different_13 (Aug 30, 2005)

o.iatlhawksfan said:


> Childress won't be back next season, unfortuntly. At 6'10 Horford could play a PF/C type mode, and with Childress being moved that would give Smith some room to play at SF. So i see it like this
> 
> C. Al horford/Zaza pachulia/ Shelden williams
> PF. J. Smith/Shelden Williams/Al Horford
> ...



Why, where's Childress going?
If you mean, "he's not gonna be here cos he's definitely gonna be traded, but I don't know where" I'll wait till it happens.

Though that's still a nice squad, Holford's better of at PF in the longterm. Of course, you run THAT squad against teams like Golden State or teams without a massive body (ie with boston, Holford could take Jefferson, but who covers Perkins?)


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## o.iatlhawksfan (Mar 3, 2006)

different_13 said:


> Why, where's Childress going?
> If you mean, "he's not gonna be here cos he's definitely gonna be traded, but I don't know where" I'll wait till it happens.
> 
> Though that's still a nice squad, Holford's better of at PF in the longterm. Of course, you run THAT squad against teams like Golden State or teams without a massive body (ie with boston, Holford could take Jefferson, but who covers Perkins?)



Horford will play a combination of PF and C, if we draft him. In the East you can do things like that, since there a lack for big men.

I remember reading Childress wants to be traded, because he wants to start for a team, before he's a free-agent.


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## different_13 (Aug 30, 2005)

In the East you can. In the West, you can't..
And a link for that Childress quote please.

Even if he wants out, he's not a big enough name to be able to demand a trade - if he starts doing a Kobe, noone'd want someone with that attitude (he's just not good enough).
And even if he goes, you'd have something in return. He can play SF, right? how about Milwaukee then? That way they can draft Conley or Wright at #6, still resign Mo as backup to both Conley (I say start him) and Redd, and fill the hole at SF (assuming Simmons isn't gonna play particularly well).

What could Childress get you anyway? Any teams in need of a long swingman (6'8?) that has pieces worth trading for?


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## o.iatlhawksfan (Mar 3, 2006)

different_13 said:


> In the East you can. In the West, you can't..
> And a link for that Childress quote please.
> 
> Even if he wants out, he's not a big enough name to be able to demand a trade - if he starts doing a Kobe, noone'd want someone with that attitude (he's just not good enough).
> ...



He didn't demand a trade, I just heard from a source close to the hawks, that he would welcome a trade. Childress, one of the best 6th man in the league, could get us maybe another veteren we can use. What would we want from Milwaukee?


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## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

It would suck to see Josh Childress and/or Marvin Williams walk for nothing but it would be devestating to see Josh Smith leave. That's kinda how I feel. Smoove is a stud and needs to be re-signed.


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## different_13 (Aug 30, 2005)

I think any player on a team that's losing would "welcome a trade" (though I think Atlanta has a bright future).
And I'll believe it when I see it (hey, when realGM is reporting on Troy Hudson's wishes, they're hardly gonna miss out Childress, who'd actually be WANTED else where ((unlike Hudson)).

If you draf Holford, Marvin's the odd-man out - you've got Shelden Williams for backup F/C, and though he shouldn't have been the #5, he's a decent enough player.
Childress can back up both swing positions.
So where and when's marvin gonna play?
Especially with Joe Johnson playing so many minutes, and Smith needing a lot of time..
For one year a rotation of Holford, Smith, Williams, Childress, Johnson, Williams could work, but after that there's just not enough minutes.


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## o.iatlhawksfan (Mar 3, 2006)

different_13 said:


> I think any player on a team that's losing would "welcome a trade" (though I think Atlanta has a bright future).
> And I'll believe it when I see it (hey, when realGM is reporting on Troy Hudson's wishes, they're hardly gonna miss out Childress, who'd actually be WANTED else where ((unlike Hudson)).
> 
> If you draf Holford, Marvin's the odd-man out - you've got Shelden Williams for backup F/C, and though he shouldn't have been the #5, he's a decent enough player.
> ...



Damn....I HATED when people who barely watch the Hawks, come down here, and say we need to trade Marvin. Are ya'll forgetting he has superstar talent, and is only now starting to come along. Then when he leaves he's a breakout player, and we're left looking stupid.....again!



Not trying to rip you or anything, just that he's not avaliable, unless a can't miss deal is purposed.As much as we love Childress( and I'm probably one of his biggest fans out here), he'll go before Marvin will.


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## TRON (Feb 29, 2004)

^ I'm not an Atlanta fan, and I was wondering who becomes expendable if u guys pick Horford

I was thinking Sheldon Williams, not Marvin Williams......what do you guys think?


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## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

o.iatlhawksfan said:


> Damn....I HATED when people who barely watch the Hawks, come down here, and say we need to trade Marvin. Are ya'll forgetting he has superstar talent, and is only now starting to come along. Then when he leaves he's a breakout player, and we're left looking stupid.....again!
> 
> 
> Not trying to rip you or anything, just that he's not avaliable, unless a can't miss deal is purposed.As much as we love Childress( and I'm probably one of his biggest fans out here), he'll go before Marvin will.


I don't think Marvin has superstar potential. If it was up to me, I would ship off Marvin before Chill. However, I think because Williams was the #2 pick and the ego of NBA GM's that isn't very realistic.


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## different_13 (Aug 30, 2005)

TRON said:


> ^ I'm not an Atlanta fan, and I was wondering who becomes expendable if u guys pick Horford
> 
> I was thinking Sheldon Williams, not Marvin Williams......what do you guys think?



I'd say Marvin Williams is more appealing to the rest of the league, whereas Shelden is 'just' an Antonio Davis type of guy. I think of Marvin being more like Antawn Jamison (but less good).

And Hawksfan, Marvin might very well end up being a better player than Childress. But I still think if you pick Holford, Marvin becomes the odd man out - Smith has done so well at the PF position, he becomes Holford's backup as well as the starter at the 3 (unless you go smallball).
And as I previously said, Childress covers the 2/3. And there's Shelden for the 4/5 as well.
So that's 3 players who can effectively play the 4, 2 who play the 3, PLUS Marvin Williams.
See my point?
Obviously you'd be reluctant to trade him, he was the #2 pick (a bench-player on his college team, but that was a good plan).


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## o.iatlhawksfan (Mar 3, 2006)

different_13 said:


> I'd say Marvin Williams is more appealing to the rest of the league, whereas Shelden is 'just' an Antonio Davis type of guy. I think of Marvin being more like Antawn Jamison (but less good).
> 
> And Hawksfan, Marvin might very well end up being a better player than Childress. But I still think if you pick Holford, Marvin becomes the odd man out - Smith has done so well at the PF position, he becomes Holford's backup as well as the starter at the 3 (unless you go smallball).
> And as I previously said, Childress covers the 2/3. And there's Shelden for the 4/5 as well.
> ...


From the interview yesterday, Woody said he's sees Marvin playing some at the 2, so that can replace Childress role, With getting Horford, Smith could see more time at th 3, but Smith is not at his best at the 3, he's better playing the 4. Horford would be a 4/5 type guy, along with Shelden. Anyways you look stupid, giving uup on a player(who was pick on potiential) after 2 year, espically when he was playing well, without being healthy all year.


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## different_13 (Aug 30, 2005)

I'll agree with that, having Marvin blow up somewhere else would make Billy look even worse.
I think if Marvin was the 5th pick rather than the second people would be a lot less down on him.

I was under the impression Marvin wasn't 'skilled' (handles, quickness etc) to play 2-guard. If he is, then all my previous points about Childress are simply wrong - I see Marvin as having a higher ceiling.
And it's true that since getting decent minutes, Marvin hasn't been fully healthy (apart from what, a month or two at the end of this year?)

So aight, if he's got the skills to play some 2 as well as forward, Childress is the odd man out for sure.

The reason I mention Smith at the 3 more than the 4 is that I think Holford would see less time at center than you think. Against a team like Utah, that has a 'soft' center but strong powerforward, Holford would cover Boozer and Smith could quite easily cover Okur, IMO.
But that wouldn't work against MOST western teams, such as the clippers - Holford would match up with Brand, but you'd need Pachulia (or someone else taller than 6'10) in to guard Kaman.

I think Marvin just needs to keep improving until his contract runs out - if he doesn't, I'd argue for not resigning him (that is, sign/trading him - someone would want him still).
He has 2 years left right? (well, 1 and a team option?) He needs to make as big an improvement from now till he needs resigning, as he did from when he was drafted to now.


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## compsciguy78 (Dec 16, 2002)

Josh Smith, Marvin Williams, and #3 pick for Kobe Bryant.

Would you pull the trigger?


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## o.iatlhawksfan (Mar 3, 2006)

compsciguy78 said:


> Josh Smith, Marvin Williams, and #3 pick for Kobe Bryant.
> 
> Would you pull the trigger?



I probably would, but Kobe wouldn't LOL!


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

This is a make or break draft for Knight and co. seeing as you dont have a pick next year(most likely a high one). I would love to say on friday that Atlanta made the best moves of the whole draft but i'd be called an idiot for predicting that. Start thinking outside the box down there, please.


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## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

Post-draft reactions are usually interesting.

I have a feeling that on the BBB.net Atlanta Hawks forum, there won't be a whole lot of negativity. The main three players that are being considered seem to be regarded as good picks. The reactions on the BBB.net NBA Draft forum will be mixed.


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## Duck (Jan 30, 2006)

I say the Hawks reach and take Petteri Konopen at the #11.


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## o.iatlhawksfan (Mar 3, 2006)

TheATLien said:


> Post-draft reactions are usually interesting.
> 
> I have a feeling that on the BBB.net Atlanta Hawks forum, there won't be a whole lot of negativity. The main three players that are being considered seem to be regarded as good picks. The reactions on the BBB.net NBA Draft forum will be mixed.



theres many people here, that likes to hate on the hawks, for no big reason, kinda like that ***** Chad Ford.


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## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

I don't think posters here hate the Hawks. They just have different views on what the Hawks should do.

Some think they are dumb if they pass on another top five pick point guard. Others believe Brandan Wright, Yi Jianlian, or Al Horford. It's all a matter of opinion. I think a lot of the draftniks and college fans think Atlanta should take Horford/Wright, where as the NBA fans think Atlanta should draft Conley.


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

Duck34234 said:


> I say the Hawks reach and take Petteri Konopen at the #11.



They arent that clever there. I did see some guy on foxsports had him going to the paperclips at 14. People seem to think he's another Kirk Hinrich, we'll see.


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