# Your PERFECT offseason for POR



## Kmurph (May 7, 2003)

I'd like to hear from everyone on what YOU think the PERFECT offseason for POR would look like & your reasoning for why your scenario would be perfect. 

Here is mine...

POR trades SAR to ORL for Grant Hill and ORL #1 pick (#1-3 overall)

Why?

I think that the ORL pick IS available. This allows POR to have their choice of whom OUR SCOUTS feel is the BEST or one of the best players available in this years draft. I don't think POR will have this opportuntiy to pick a player in the draft this high again, or at least they shouldn't. If there is a "franchise" player there, and I think there is, then here is POR's golden opportunity to FINALLY get one. You pair that player with a Zach, whom I believe would be great as a #2, and a developing Miles, and I feel you have a YOUNG and exciting core from which to build on. Obtaining a "franchise" player IMO is KEY to POR ever having a legitimate title shot in the future, w\o one we are lost.

Grant Hill's contract is bad, and his injury history is distressing, but I feel he WILL play again. He won't be anywhere near what he was, but even at 60% of where he was as a player before the injury he would at least be a VERY valuable bench player IMO. Not to mention what his professionalism and presence would provide to our younger players. I think of Pippen in his last few years here, his value was more than just the stats he provided.

POR trades Qyntel Woods, Omar Cook and our #13 and #23 picks to TOR for Jerome Moiso and their #8.

Why?

Well first this could be simplified by just doing #13 and #23 for #8, and if we could do that then I would do that instead of dealing Woods. But I think TOR would want a little more, so I would offer up Woods. Cook or Gill, doesn't matter to me, they are just "filler", niether are long term solutions for POR anyway.

The ULTIMATE GOAL here is to provide POR with TWO top 10 picks in this year's draft. Moiso, if we got him, could serve as a decent b\u big man.

The draft:

Who would I want to see POR select under this scenario....Well having TWO of the top 10 picks, provides POR with a great opportunity to get a future franchise player AND a player at a position of need. 

At #1-3 (ORL pick) I would select Dwight Howard, I think over Deng or Livingston. My reasoning here is Howard although more raw at present, has more upside over Okafor IMO. Also I have read that he is still growing and could project out to a center down the road. As for why him over Deng and Livingston? Well, I just think all things being equal (equal being the key) you should take big over small, they are just more valuable. But if our scouts felt that Deng, Livingston or anyone else for that matter were going to be the better players down the road, then you take them of course. I just don't know enough about the players to make that judgement, so I am going by what I have read\heard about the players. Basically whatever player our scouts pin the "future franchise player" label on is whom we select. 

I am assuming they would take Howard. We could let Howard ease into the NBA slowly, backing up Zach at the PF spot. It also provides us flexibility in case contract talks with Zach go bad for some reason or we don't want to pay him the max deal he wants. 

At #8, I would select either Devin Harris or Ben Gordon, whomever was there. If they both were? I would take Gordon. Here is our future PG to replace Damon. But to start he could be used to come off the bench. I will say that we end up with Devin Harris, I just think Ben Gordon will be gone by then. 

At #41 Select a "shooter" type player...Romain Sato, Christian Drejer, Damir Omerhidzic, Darius Rice, Michael Morandais, Kevin Martin or Tim Pickett...I am going to say Pickett ( I think Sato\Drejer\Omerhodzic will be gone), he is a tweener, who has a great shooting touch, is a hard worker a vocal leader...I think he could be the perfect "combo" guard off the bench we are looking for. I would look at Martin too. Also we could consider trading up for a guy we have "targeted". 

Free Agency...

Resign Miles to the most affordable long term deal we can...Sign Brent Barry to his 4yr deal starting at the MLE...and resign Wes Person to the veterans minimum.

Lineup

PG - Damon, Devin Harris, Dan Dickau
SG - DA, Brent Barry, Wes Person, Tim Pickett
SF - Miles, Grant Hill, Ruben, Outlaw 
PF Zach, Dwight Howard
C Theo, Dale, Moiso

Now this leaves us STILL with the flexibility IMO to deal Dale Davis in the offseason for a player\s and\or a future draft pick or keep him and just let him walk as a FA next offseason and also deal Damon (based on Harris' progression during the year) towards the trade deadline. I think that unless we could sign another FA center, Moiso proved he could aptly fill the b\u spot, and start if needed, or Howard proved he could play spot duty at the center spot (which I think is possible or Zach and Howard could man the front line together) or we got a center back in a deal for either Damon or Dale, I would probably hold onto Davis.

I think Damon, unless Harris flopped WOULD be dealt at the trade deadline, as both Brent Barry and\or DA could provide spot backup duty, and possibly Dickau as well. Or even possibly Grant Hill as a point forward? 

Conclusion:

The only "hole" I potentially see here is at center, IF Theo goes down to an injury, where does it leave us? But you could say that about practically EVERY team in the NBA. 

As for PG I think we can feel comfortable in letting Damon walk next year (if he isn't traded) with Harris assuming the starting PG spot. Shooting is handled through both Brent Barry and "specialist" Wesley Person, both of whom more than make up for our shhoting deficiency IMO. Add Pickett to that, whom I feel could develop into a Bobby Jackson type of player down the road, a perfect sparkplug off the bench.

We would definitely be a playoff team next year and will have REALLY set ourselves up for the future IMO as Zach & Miles continue to improve and Outlaw, Howard, Harris, and hopefully Pickett (Nedzad Sinanovic?) develop. These 5-7 guys (plus our 05' draft pick\s) would form a young core that even 4 years from now will JUST be reaching their "prime" playing ages. Not one of them over 26yrs old! 

Playoffs now....title run in a few years. That is the goal. IF Howard can play center down the road, which I think he can, then this leaves POR with a frontline of Miles, Zach and Howard...which would be incredible IMO.

Again the only caveat I have here is WHOM POR should take if they were that high in the draft. maybe they view Livingston or Deng as the "franchise" player. If so, use the #8 to fill in with a SG (likely) or a center. Maybe Howard goes first and then take Okafor, or Biedrins. *The important part is that POR has the opportunity to select the player THEY feel can be that "cornerstone" player and then they can fit the other pieces around both that player, Zach & Miles as they see fit.* 

So what do you think? If you disagree, and I am sure several people will, tell me why, or tell me what way YOU think POR would be better to go.


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## MAS RipCity (Feb 22, 2003)

My perfect Offseason......this may take a while...


Priority #1) Re-Sign Darius Miles to a 7 year deal for 7-9 mill a year.

Priority #2) Give Zach Randolph a 7 year contract extension.

Scenario #1:

Portland trades Shareef Abdur-Rahim for Ray Allen.
Portland trades essentially Derek Anderson to Miami for Brian Grant.

Draft:
With the 13th pick in the 2004 NBA Draft Portland selects Sebastain Telfair from Lincoln HS in Brookyln,New York.

With the 23rd pick in the 2004 NBA Draft, Portland selects David Harrision, Center from Colorado University.

Free Agent Signings:
Portland uses their MLE to sign Brent Barry.

Opening Day Roster:
PG-Damon Stoudamire,Brent Barry,Sebastain Telfair
SG-Ray Allen,Brent Barry,Travis Outlaw,Qyntel Woods
SF-Darius Miles,Ruben Patterson,Travis Outlaw
PF-Zach Randolph,Brian Grant
C-Theo Ratliff,David Harrison,Dale Davis


Why? First about the 2 trades. I really don't know if we could get Ray Allen that cheaply,but it would be the best trade in Blazers history if it went down. Ray is the sharp shooter from downtown that we so desperately covet. We trade one backup for another,but this time we get a huge fan favorite back, who can spell Zach for a few minutes and hustle while he is out there.

The draft, I know many have speculated in trading up, but I am backing off of those ideas for now, just because we could essentially get the same type of player @13 that we would get at like #5. We need a point guard and this draft is PG heavy. I could see Nelson,Telfair,Harris, or Gordon falling to us. I would just be content staying there and picking one of them. Bassy has that leadership in him, he has sensational passing skills and is a floor general. First instict told myself to pick Luke Jackson,but we just have too many wings and young ones at that. I think Harrison is going to be a solid center in this league for a while. He is a big body who attacks the glass.

Free Agency, this one was easy. We need that combo guard who can shoot, handle the ball, and has vertern leadership/experience. Brent Barry fulfills all of the above attributes. He will also play a vitale role in giving Damon and Ray breaks when they need it.

Outlook:
I can see all of those moves happening, will they? Who knows. I think the Ray Allen move has the least likely chance of going down,but there have been rumors. I see the draft picks being similar to the ones I picked,and Barry would fit nicely here.

Performance:
I think we would break the franchise record for wins and get the #1 in the West. We have every aspect of a great team down pat. We have great outside shooting, ball handling, interior defense, interior offense, rebounding, depth,youth for the future years and even Mo Cheeks couldn't screw up this team.


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## MAS RipCity (Feb 22, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Kmurph</b>!
> I'd like to hear from everyone on what YOU think the PERFECT offseason for POR would look like & your reasoning for why your scenario would be perfect.
> 
> Here is mine...
> ...


I like your offseason moves, thats great news if Howard is still growing, 04-05 wouldn't be the year to win it all with your team,but we are set up with Howard and Gordon/Harris to be set in the future to go with Zach and Miles.


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## Storyteller (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Kmurph</b>!
> Lineup
> 
> PG - Damon, Devin Harris, Dan Dickau
> ...


That's 16 players. Who gets cut? And who goes on the IL?


However, your idea of SAR for Hill+draft pick is intriguing. Would Orlando do that, though? Especially since they have enough of a glut at PF with Gooden and Howard already?


I don't have time right now to make a long post, but I'll get back to it over the weekend if I can....


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## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

Trade SAR for Grant Hill AND their number 1 pick?????

Trade SAR for Ray Allen straight across????

Well I guess if every one else is gonna live in a fantasy world so will I.

1. Trade Vlad Stepania for Shaq

2. Trade D.A for Kobe

3.Trade Damon for Jason Kidd

4. Tell Indiana we want a do-over on the Jermain O'Neal trade and trade D.D. for him

5. Trade Dan Dickau for K.G.

6. Trade Eddie Gill for Tim Duncan

7. Trade Ferguson for Baron Davis

8. Fire Cheeks and Hire Pat Riley in his prime

9. Trade our two picks for the number 1 and number 2 picks this year. Draft Livingston, then Luke Jackson......because we could at that point.


Projected line-up


C-Shaq
pf- Duncan
sf-KG
sg-Kobe
pg-Kidd

bench Jermain O'Neal, Baron Davis, Darius Miles, Zach Randolph, Ray Allen, Shaun Livingston and Luke Jackson


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## Kmurph (May 7, 2003)

Mediocre Man - 

Please explain why trading SAR fro oft-injured Highly paid Grant Hill and their #1 draft pick is fantasyland? I don't think it is...


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## KIDBLAZE (Jul 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>mediocre man</b>!
> Trade SAR for Grant Hill AND their number 1 pick?????
> 
> Trade SAR for Ray Allen straight across????
> ...


:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: Aw man you trippin foreal!


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## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Kmurph</b>!
> Mediocre Man -
> 
> Please explain why trading SAR fro oft-injured Highly paid Grant Hill and their #1 draft pick is fantasyland? I don't think it is...


Let me pose this question to you another way Kmurph.

Let's say we had the number one pick in this years draft, and a young decent power forward in Gooden. Let's say we also have Juwan Howard who is a power forward. Would you trade it away for a 27 year old power forward that hasn't proven he can win in this league? Let's also say that we had a dominant if healthy player on the roster that we gave all that money too. Would you trade him too, or wait until you were sure he couldn't pay back some of that money we gave him with his play on the court. SAR for the number 1 pick isn't fair much less adding Grant Hill to the equation also


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

It all depends on what Tracy wants. 

From what I have heard, Orlando is not thrilled with Gooden and may be looking to move him on Draft night.

Portland may in fact be able to swing a deal like.

Shareef, Dickau, Woods and #13 

for

Gooden
Hill 
#1

Especially considering with Gooden and Howard it would also be redundant to take Howard or Okafur. Tracy will not want to wait arounf for Howard to be successful and Okafur probably won't impact the game enough. 

Howard and Shareef both can play 3-4 so together would be a decent combo. In the East Orlando could run Shareef and Howard at the 4 and 5 with McGrady and Stevenson at the 2 and 3 and I have no clue about the 1.


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## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

resign Darius Miles for 4-5 years.

extend Zach Randolph for 5-6 years.

Trade Shareef Abdur Rahim for Ray Allen.

Package the 13 and 23 for the #6 pick.

Trade the #6 plus cash for the #5, draft Shaun Livingston.

Trade Qyntel Woods plus next years 1st round pick for Dan Gadzuric.

Trade Dale Davis and Derek Anderson for anyone who'll take them. 

PG: Damon Stoudamire, Shaun Livingston, Gill or Dickau

SG: Ray Allen, free agent

SF: Darius Miles, Ruben Patterson, Travis Outlaw

PF Zach Randolph, Travis Outlaw, free agent

C: Theo Ratliff, Dan Gadzuric


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## HOWIE (Dec 30, 2002)

I would offer myself the MLE and call it a day!


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## ThatBlazerGuy (May 1, 2003)

I like the idea of Howard. 

He would be a great future center. Man o man.


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## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Schilly</b>!
> It all depends on what Tracy wants.
> 
> From what I have heard, Orlando is not thrilled with Gooden and may be looking to move him on Draft night.
> ...




Again why would you do this if you are Orlando? Why would you give up the number one pick for SAR essencialy. You also said you aren't sure about the 1. I have a great option. 



Portland trades:
Damon
Woods
D.A.
SAR
13


Orlando trades:
Hill
Stevenson
1


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## MAS RipCity (Feb 22, 2003)

Orlando needs stability in the low post is why they trade for SAR, and they dump HIlls contract. It is more then a fair deal imo.


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## Playmaker0017 (Feb 13, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>MAS RipCity</b>!
> Priority #1) Re-Sign Darius Miles to a 7 year deal for 7-9 mill a year.


That could easily be the worst move I've ever heard.

You are willing to give a guy with little more than "flashes" of decency a 7 year deal? Not just that, but sign him at 7-9MM each year? That's almost a 100MM contract when all the yearly raises and bonuses are factored in. 

Be realistic... he's done little more then show he can play a decent role on a squad. Locking him up for 7 years at a HUGE rate is just silly... it makes him untradeable and locks away cash.

3 years - 5-6MM is all that should be offered to him ... ON THE HIGH END.



> Priority #2) Give Zach Randolph a 7 year contract extension.


I could see doing that ... but not from Zach's perspective. He will want the max ... and then the max after the max. Why sign a 7 year deal? He can sign a 3-5 and then renegotiate a higher contract after that.

Further, I don't think he is worth the max. Not right now. I let him prove he is going to continue growing through the off-season.



> Scenario #1:
> 
> Portland trades Shareef Abdur-Rahim for Ray Allen.
> Portland trades essentially Derek Anderson to Miami for Brian Grant.


I still think this Reef for Allen stuff is just silly. 

I don't think there is a chance in the world you get Allen.

Now, the trade with Orlando ... now that would be a move that could happen.



> Performance:
> I think we would break the franchise record for wins and get the #1 in the West. We have every aspect of a great team down pat. We have great outside shooting, ball handling, interior defense, interior offense, rebounding, depth,youth for the future years and even Mo Cheeks couldn't screw up this team.


Not a chance.

You still don't have a legit center. Ratliff is good against teams with no true center, but he is virtually a non-factor against teams WITH an aggressive center of power forward. 

The team would finish 3rd-4th. 

No matter how much you love Randolph or Miles - neither is truly a great, phenom type player. Randolph is close, but too selfish and one-dimensional. Miles is a plug with signs of being something. 

Allen would be the prime player, but Randolph wouldn't like it. You'd have team chemistry issues.

Play.


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## Playmaker0017 (Feb 13, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>MAS RipCity</b>!
> Orlando needs stability in the low post is why they trade for SAR, and they dump HIlls contract. It is more then a fair deal imo.


It is a GREAT deal for Orlando. 

Portland gets shafted. They take on a huge, worthless contract. They get a top pick in a worthless draft. 

I think this may be Portland's best option though. I don't see teams trading much to get Reef right now. It just doesn't make sense.

Play.


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## ThatBlazerGuy (May 1, 2003)

Here is mine.....
*Assuming the lotter looks like this.....

1. Orlando
2. Washington
3. LAC
4. Charlotte
5. Chicago
6. Atlanta
7. Phoenix
8. Toronto
9. Phili
10. Cleveland
11. GS
12. Seattle
13. Portland

1) SAR, Omar Cook, 2004 2nd round pick, 2005 1st round pick(lotto protected indefinatley) for Eddie Robinson, Tyson Chandler and #5

2) Qyntell Woods, #13, #23 for Jerome Mosio and #8

3) Brent Barry is signed for MLE, 3 years

4) Sign Antonio McDyess to the LLE for 2 years

5) Re-sign Darius Miles to a 5 year contract starting arounf 4.5-5M

Lottery Mock Looks Like This

1. Orlando- Emeka Okafor
2. Washington- Dwight Howard
3. LAC- Loul Deng 
4. Charlotte- Andris Biedrinis
5. *Portland(From Chicago)- Shaun Livingston* 
6. Atlanta- Josh Smith
7. Phoenix- Ben Gordon
8. *Portland(From TO)- Andre Igoudala* 
9. Phili- Ben Gordon
10. Cleveland- Pavel Podklozine
11. GS- Devin Harris
12. Seattle- Rafael Araujo
13. Toronto(From Portland)- Kosta Perovic
14. Utah- Tiago Splitter


2004/2005 Roster
PG-D.Stoudamire/S.Livingston
SG-B.Barry/D.Anderson/A.Igoudala
SF-D.Miles/R.Patterson
PF-Z.Randolph/A.McDyess
C-T.Ratliff/D.Davis/A.McDyess


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## Kmurph (May 7, 2003)

> Portland gets shafted. They take on a huge, worthless contract. They get a top pick in a worthless draft.


Play - 

I'm not so sure about that. Do you really think that there isn't ONE player in this entire draft that is a future "franchise type" player? I would agree that there isn't an IMMEDIATE impact player in this years draft ala Lebron or Carmelo, heck even Wade. But that doesn't mean that 2-3 years from now that one of the players selected in THIS year's draft won't be AS GOOD or even BETTER than those guys, well maybe better than Wade or Carmelo, Lebron is another story (once in a generation IMO). 

I think the problem with this draft is just that...there is no STAND OUT...immediate impact player. This years draft is ALL about potential, but that doesn't mean that a few of these guys won't turn into fantastic players, the challenge is picking\finding the right one, and yes it will take time for that player to develop (2-4 years IMO) into a "franchise" type of guy. But really, where is POR going in the near future? I mean are there any legitimate deals we could pull off that would turn us into title contenders next year? I don't think so. People keep mentioning Ray Allen, and I love Ray Allen as a player, but even if we got him (which I don't think we will), IMO it STILL only makes up a 3-4 seed in the west. I don't see acquiring Allen bringing us any championships, do you?

The best bet is to get as HIGH of a pick as you can, I think this is a unique draft in that several of the teams with high picks for whatever reason are more eager than they normally would be to deal those picks. POR should take advantage. We have good scouts, good talent evaluators, our record speaks for itself. Perfect? no...but better than most? I'd say yes. Get up high and take that consensus player...whomever he may be...Howard? Livingston? Deng? Smith? I have no idea...but I guarantee you Nash and our scouts do...and that is all that matters. It is worth the risk IMO...

As for Hill's contract, like I said in my post, yes it is a bad deal, and Hill has yet to play any meaningful minutes. But I am sure that Nash can see the writing on the wall can't he? I mean, resigning Daruis is going to happen and should. Zach is asking for a max deal (I don't think he is worth it) and is going to either get it or close to it. So how are we going to have ALL of this mega capsapce in 05'? Are we REALLY going to let valuable expiring deals like Damon and Dale's just walk away for nothing? Are we really going to opt to let SAR walk away for nothing, in order to maximize our capspace? What about Theo, do we let him walk too? Do we trade away draft picks to squeeze a little more cap space for 05'? Even if we do ALL of these it STILL only makes us a marginal player in 05' FA and guarantees us jack squat in terms of ACTUALLY signing a legitimate "Premium" FA. I don't see the value in doing this, do you? 

Having tons of cap space is overated IMO, more often than naught it causes you to overpay for mediocre (Rasho Nesterovic, Andre Miller) talent or overpay for bad (Eddie Robinson) talent. VERY RARELY do the Kobe & Tracy's change teams, and I don't think POR is on their short list...

I maintain that we are better off swimming AGAINST the prevailing "maximize cap space" current here. Use our expiring contracts to extract talent (be it players or draft picks) from teams looking to make a splash in 05', and we know there will be such teams. We can strengthen our own team this way, if we have to eat a couple of bad deals (not horrible mind you) in order to do so, so be it. That is where the benefit of having Paul Allen as your owner comes into play. I don't think Allen ever said, payroll MUST be at salary cap level. I think he just said, 100 million dollar payroll, mediocre team? unexceptable...and I agree. He will spend money if it is in our best long term interest, he just did so when he dealt Rasheed. So taking on Grant Hill to NET a top 2 pick and future "franchise" player, hardly seems out of the realm of possibility for him. The KEY is like I said, our scouts and mgmt BELEIVING such a player IS there. Whether he takes 3-4 years to develop into that player is another story.

As for Grant Hill as a player, he could be through, and if he is there may be the possibility of a medical settlement from what I have read. But even if he isn't, I beleive he will play again sometime. Now he won't be anywhere NEAR the player he once was, but like I said, even if he was like Scottie was his last two years, he could be a good player to have off the bench. I look at Anfernee Hardaway as another example, his contract is BAD and he has seriously slipped in his skill ability, but he still can be a valuable member off the bench...if netting a top 2-3 pick meant having to absorb him and his deal I would GLADLY do it...and I think Hill is better (when healthy) as a player and as a person (ie role model to younger players) than Hardaway, heck or even Pippen.

The way I look at it is either Hill comes back and plays a support role or he cannot come back and a medical settlement is reached, but he is but a means to an end IMO. That end being acquiring a "franchise" player, that is all that really matters IMO, for having one doesn't guarantee you a title, let alone the playoffs every year (see Tracy McGrady) but NOT having one CERTAINLY dooms you to NEVER having a legitimate chance to WIN an NBA title.

As I have said, I don't think Zach is...or will ever be a "franchise" player, we STILL need to get one. There IS one in this years draft I believe (maybe MORE than 1), if we have the opportunity to trade up and get him, what are we waiting for?


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## Kmurph (May 7, 2003)

> Let's say we had the number one pick in this years draft, and a young decent power forward in Gooden. Let's say we also have Juwan Howard who is a power forward. Would you trade it away for a 27 year old power forward that hasn't proven he can win in this league? Let's also say that we had a dominant if healthy player on the roster that we gave all that money too. Would you trade him too, or wait until you were sure he couldn't pay back some of that money we gave him with his play on the court. SAR for the number 1 pick isn't fair much less adding Grant Hill to the equation also



Mediocre Man - 

Who from this draft is going to step in and DELIVER for ORL this year? Okafor? He is projected as a PF too, so is he better than Howard or Gooden stepping into the NBA as a ROOKIE next year? Look at the other "projected" top 5 prospects, what do they have in common? They are ALL HS age guys....Howard, Livingston, Smith, Deng (okay he is 19 not 18), Biedrins. Do you REALLY believe that ANY one of these guys are going to step in and contribute right away? I sure don't....

Let's talk McGrady shall we? If I was ORL I sure as HELL wouldn't trade him, but I sure as HELL would be concerned by his recent talk of opting out. I would do EVERYTHING in my power to put proven veteran players around him. ORL NEEDS...desperately needs to make the playoffs next year, to at least show McGrady that they are serious about building a team around him. Nother year of missing the playoffs could mean losing Tracy to FA, that is a situation that ORL CANNOT allow to happen. And you can BET teams are already lining up to position themselves JUST in case that scenario becomes a reality. Weren't we as POR fans just talking about that possibility? 

SAR for all of the negativity he takes, is a VERY solid player (career 20 & 8) and solid guy as well. He has played for two of the WORST franchises in the NBA, Vancouver and Atlanta. How can you call him a loser when he has been surrounded by crappy talent and plagued by bad mgmt? Look at Tracy McGrady, he is arguably a top 5 talent in this league, and HIS team finished with the WORST record in the NBA this year. Is he a loser too? My point is it takes more than ONE player, no matter HOW good he is to make a successful team. McGrady cannot do it alone, something Kobe may find out if he leaves LA as a FA this offseason.

ORL could plug SAR in at the PF spot and slide Howard over to the center spot. Is he (Howard) undersized? Sure he is, but look at the other centers in the EC, is there anyone (or more importantly a number of players) that Howard couldn't handle any given night? I don't think so... 

As for Gooden, As someone previously mentioned, he is not favored by current mgmt. And so what if they acquired SAR? Maybe, you use Gooden as trade bait to acquire a respectable PG, another area of great need IMO. There are MORE than just ONE hole to fill here, that usually is the case with teams that end at the bottom of the entire NBA food cahin.

Lastly is Hill. If I were ORL would I trade him? You bet I would trade him and our top pick for SAR, I may try and pry another pick out of it as well (adk for #13, but #23 would be palatable). I would be VERY happy to be free and clear of his ENORMOUS contract, this would give me flexibility next season when SAR contract comes off the books to actually SIGN a FA of note. A premium FA? no...But a significant piece to the puzzle? yes. 

As for waiting\wanting Hill to PAY back his enormous deal by playing, I wouldn't hold out hope, Better to just cut our losses IMO. The KEY is not "getting" something out of Hill, but not "losing" Mcgrady in the process and STILL being stuck with Hill's contract, effectively strangling our cap. 

We trade for SAR and plug him in as our #2 guy at the PF position, we move Howard to center, we look to trade Gooden for a PG or another player in an area of need. We make the playoffs next year in a WEAK EC, and show Tracy that we are serious about improving the state of our team. We try and sign SAR for less money, or let him walk, and peruse (sp?) the bountiful 05' FA market for players whom we can fill in around McGrady.


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## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

Your thoughts are full of good intentions Kmurph, I guess we will just agree to disagree on this one. No way do I make that trade if I'm running the Magic. And I would be persicuted if Hill was traded and managed to play even as little as a half season. If Nash was to pull that off he should be given the executive of the year right away. I think a lot of people in this forum room will be shocked when they see just how little we get for SAR. Teams know we need to trade him, so that will do nothing but run his value down.


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## Kmurph (May 7, 2003)

WOW that was quick :yes: 

I think we will get more for SAR than you think. Remember, people said the same things about Rasheed Wallace. That we were screwed in terms of getting anything decent back for him, and he netted us SAR AND Ratliff. I think that is pretty darn good value.

Now SAR may not go to ORL for Hill and their #1, but I believe it is possible. Maybe ORL gets a better offer from someone else (Phx?) and goes that route instead, but I do believe that the chances are good that they WILL trade their pick. It may not be to POR, but I do beleive that POR has the ability\pieces in place to make a deal with ORL.

As for SAR, like I said, I do think he will get more value than you think, we will just have to wait an see what Nash's plans for POR really are. Anyone's guess is as good as mine....


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## generalmcg (Apr 19, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Playmaker0017</b>!
> I still think this Reef for Allen stuff is just silly.
> 
> I don't think there is a chance in the world you get Allen.


Amen.

And oh yeah ditto for getting the #1 like that.

Oh and Barry too.

Allright thats it.

No wait McDyess too.

Now thats it...


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## Trader Ed (Jun 17, 2002)

I am of the belief that Rahim will get us a pretty good trade. He has just been too good for too long in his career. Many of the GM's in the league would want to put Rahim on their team. They know what he can do, regardless of being on a loosing team. I am sure he is not the only all-star to ever put on the sneakers in the league who has played on a loosing team.

The only way I take on Hill's contract is if we get McGrady.... game set and match!


Back to the topic at hand. Lots of good ideas by all... I will chime in here as well.

I enjoyed the chemistry at the end. They were fun to watch. That skirmish when Zach was allegedly throwing punches and suspended (Utah game?) was a big key to me in establishing team unity. He came over to stick up for Rahim. Remember Rahim invited Zach to his house in the SE when he was younger to help him train and work with him. Also it was said Zach and Ruben had dinner, and apparently mended fences. Many small things led to a team hustling and giving a good effort each night. This is a very good thing. So dealing a few players may affect this a bit.

As good as our defense improved, and the team seemed to come together chemistry wise in the last part of the season there was still one glaring weakness... our guard play. Most all of us have talked about it for ages now. When our guards were hot shooting our team with our big talented big men were hard to beat. I think with upgrades at the PG and SG spots this team can start to compete again deep into the playoffs with a mix of old and young players.

My preference would be to obtain either Ray Allen or Tracy McGrady for our SG. But as much as I would like it to happen, I have my doubts it can. There is a foundation that might be able to be built for them to be acquired, but in the end I think the price will be too much for us to get them. My hope would be that either Seattle or Orlando gets pressured by their star and force a trade with us being the benefactor.

I would make this offer to Seattle and leave it on the table. I think its the best offer we can give them, and its a fair deal IMHO for both. If they do not take it...... fine! Take it or leave it, and move on to another team:

My perfect _realistic_ acquisition would be:
Portland sends Rahim $14.625 mil + DA $8.443 mil = $23.06 mil. Portland also sends their 2004 Memphis pick, their 2006 first round pick (lottery protected), and $1 mil cash
Seattle sends Allen $14.625 mil + Booth $5.9 mil = $20.53 mil
Note: Portlands 1st round pick in 2006 will hopefully be very deep at the end of the 1st round, so its not that important then. 



So I will try to put forth my scenario to which I think can be achieved, if Seattle does not bite on the above scenario.

Expansion draft:
Dan Dickau is taken by Charlotte

Draft:
Jameer Nelson and Robert Swift
(Note: I would take Ben Gordon over Jameer, but his reported problem with hitting a lady in college scared me off.)

FA signings:
MLE = Brent Barry
Veterans minimum = Wes Person (still has house in Portland)

Trades:
With Allen and McGrady out of the running, I focus on Pierce, but decide he had too bad a season and his price tag is too high as well. Pierce's outside shooting is not quite up to Allen or Redd's status.

I am going to pull off the shocker.... in 2004/05 numbers
Portland trades Zach Randolph $1.8 mil + DA $8.443 mil = $10.243 mil OUT
Milwaukee sends Michael Redd $3 mil + Joe Smith $5.9 mil = $8.9 mil OUT
Milwaukee was comfortable trading away Allen and letting Redd take the ropes. So we get the next young Ray Allen in Redd. He is a career 41% 3pt shooter and does not make a lot of mistakes. Joe Smith has been playing decent and can be a decent backup to Rahim


ROSTER
PG Stoudamire, Brent Barry, Jameer Nelson
SG Michael Redd, Wes Person, Woods*
SF Miles, Patterson
PF Rahim, Joe Smith, Outlaw
C Ratliff, Davis, Robert Swift*

IR*

Rahim return to form when he gets the nod and more minutes

Redd and Person average about 45% from 3pt land. Person was about 47% with PDX. Redd a career 41%

Next year Damon can be let go or traded by the deadline. Barry and Nelson can handle it by then.


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## Ukrainefan (Aug 1, 2003)

If Nash thinks that Shaun Livingstone would eventually be a franchise type player, then we should try to get him. I don't think he would be available after the 4th pick. What if we make a deal with Charlotte that we will make Rahim available in the expansion draft if they trade their 4th pick for our 23rd? Try to get a sg with our 13th pick and try to find another center with our mle. (Is mehmet okur possible?)


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## Playmaker0017 (Feb 13, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Kmurph</b>!
> I'm not so sure about that. Do you really think that there isn't ONE player in this entire draft that is a future "franchise type" player?


No, I've said from the get go that there will be a few all-stars and probably one or two eventual hall of famers.

The question is where in the draft will they go? 

That is the problem with this draft ... drafting high isn't necessarily going to net you that player. 

Play.


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## Kmurph (May 7, 2003)

> drafting high isn't necessarily going to net you that player


But it CAN guarantee that you GET that player, and that is the ultimate point isn't it? 

For instance if our scouts\mgmt beleive that Shaun Livingston IS that future HOF type player, and we have a pretty good idea WHERE he will go (top 5). Then you need to get there correct? He won't fall down to #13...

Of course this is based on IF he is the #1 guy on POR board, & just HOW good our scouts\mgmt think he will be. If our scouts viewed him as the best player in the draft, I'd be willing to take on Hill's contract in order to draft him, wouldn't you?


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## Goldmember (May 24, 2003)

Resign Zach and Darius.

Take Damon, Shareef, Ruben, Derek, and Qyntel and offer any combonation of the above for (in order) TMac, Ray Allen, Paul Pierce or Baron Davis.

Sign Brent Barry. 

Use our picks on a center, PG, or Luke Jackson.

Lineup:
Damon or Baron Davis
TMac or Ray Allen or Pierce 
Miles
Zbo
Rattler

Bench:
Barry
Travis 
Dale
Draft picks
Whoever's left after the big trade.


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## Trader Ed (Jun 17, 2002)

bump


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Trader Bob</b>!
> bump


Set


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Schilly</b>!
> 
> Set


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

Ed you Spike with flair....:|


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)




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## mook (Dec 31, 2002)

My ideal off-season: 

First re-sign Miles and Randolph to keep them happy. 

Second, rip off Schilly's trade of Shareef+Dale+Qyntel+Dickau for Allen+Potapenko+Booth

Third, sign Gary Payton for the veteran minimum (hey, it's my ideal!)

Draft best talent available at both picks, regardless of position. Ideally, though, the best talent available is a center and a PG. 

Lineup: 
PG: Payton, Stoudamire, Gill
SG: Allen, DA, Woods
SF: Miles, Patterson, Outlaw, Woods
PF: Randolph, Booth, Potapenko
C: Ratliff, Booth, Potapenko

That team gives you everything: defense, play making, shot blocking, low post scoring, slashing, energy off the bench, veteran leaders and young up-and-comers. 

It also gives you whining by DA and Damon, but I really don't give a damn. I'd keep Gill as my third string PG because I can easily imagine either DA or Damon pouting their way into the doghouse, and Gill is the closest thing we have to a combo guard for some of those minutes.

Payton's defense hasn't looked that good this year, but he's really the best PG that I think could become available to us this summer.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

Wanker: I think that your scenario is not only a very good one for Portland but not terribly unlikely. (Except for both trading Qyntel and having him in the rotation, of course...)

Payton coming to Portland for a multiyear MLE deal is very possible, and I agree that the SAR + filler for Ray Allen + filler deal is possible, as well.

Damon and DA go to the bench and they might bellyache about that, but the team would be so much better it would be silly.

Ed O.


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## Trader Ed (Jun 17, 2002)

That is what I like about these type of threads... brain storming and seeing others ideas...

I like it TheWanker...
I do not recall having read that SAR-Allen trade scenario before
I had read Booth was a pretty good shot blocker, but know they dislike his contract. We did not get a lot of great production out of DD this year, so it might as well had been Booth out there. Maybe he will be more energetic and hustle more.

This also gives Seattle and additional expiring contract to keep or deal in DD. They might just do this one if all those contracts bother them.

There are times when Payton looks very old in his play, but I think getting him would still be a great deal for us. I was one who wanted him last summer. His off court behavior is questionable and may be considered. But if you can sign a healthy HOF'er to a decent deal..... you do it. He does not appear happy in LA.

You still got 2x 2004 draft picks that can get time behind the PG or SG spots. If you go for the gusto and sign Barry and maybe Wes somehow.... you can deal Damon and DA (almost $22 mil together) without much concern position wise. Damon had a pretty good year and an expiring contract should allow him to be dealt fairly easily if Nash decides to.


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

my ideal Blazer offseason...

-win the lottery... really any of the top three slots would be fine.

-trade SAR & Dale & Memphis pick for Pierce & Raef ... Boston does this to set themselves up to be a FA player in 2005 with a max level slot available even after retaining SAR at a deal starting at 6 mil. Portland lands their lead off guard/outside shooter. 

-resign Zach and Darius.

-Adonal Foyal signs a 4 year MLE deal. Chooses Portland because he's sick of losing. Portland fans that want quality guys would be beside themselves to have this guy on the club. He's very funny, articulate, and humble... one of the best interviews I've ever heard. He's also a prolific shotblocker and decent all around inside banger.

-Travis grows 5 inches to a cool 7'0 and is featured on the Blazer '04 press guide grabbing the top corner of the backboard while dunking.

-Nedzad's remarkable improvement is one of the main stories in training camp.

 

STOMP


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>STOMP</b>!
> my ideal Blazer offseason...
> 
> -win the lottery
> ...


Which one of these is not like the other one? (Hint: I bolded it.)

Methinks STOMP has been brainwashed by Foyle... the dude is 28, injury-prone and hasn't been able to start ahead of Dampier (before he was good) and he gets a four year MLE deal from Portland? That one might be as likely as most of the other developments you list, but it's not nearly as good for Portland.


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

Ha! I added some more reasoning on Adonal as you were posting a response Ed. I happen to think quite a bit of his game and think he's absolutely the top end of what might be had with a full MLE offer this offseason... even better then my all time favorite player GP (who, at this stage of his career would be my second choice). Trust me, Adonal has improved quite a bit in the last couple of years. Unfortunately as you noted, he's been bit by the injury bug, but certainly his health is no more dicey then Portland's current center. He's got a clean bill of health now.

STOMP


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## mook (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Ed O</b>!
> Wanker: I think that your scenario is not only a very good one for Portland but not terribly unlikely. (Except for both trading Qyntel and having him in the rotation, of course...)


heh, well my ideal does require a slight disruption in the space-time continuum. I don't think it's entirely unreasonable to ask one little favor of the universe. 

now that I think of it, my ideal also involves acquiring Person for part of that exception as well. if only to have the option of running Allen and Person at the guard positions in situations where we have a final possession of a quarter in the half court and are hoping for a quick three. definitely the lowest of my priorities. 

the other nice thing about my scenario is that we keep Damon around as an expiring contract. we can use him like we did Sheed to pick up a talent later on.


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Ukrainefan</b>!
> ...get a sg with our 13th pick and try to find another center with our mle. (Is mehmet okur possible?)


The short answere is that it's possible that he leaves Detroit, but unlikely it will be for only a MLE offer.

STOMP


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## gambitnut (Jan 4, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>STOMP</b>!
> my ideal Blazer offseason...
> 
> -win the lottery... really any of the top three slots would be fine.
> ...


There is no way Travis is going to grow 5 inches in the offseason and the odds of us winning the lottery aren't much better. 

I don't think Peirce is enough of a shooter for our needs and I want to stay as far away from Raef's contract as possible and I agree with Ed about Foyle but I had two comments on your plan, I'm glad I'm not the only person here to have Nedzad in their plans and I'm surprised that you were the first person to have us winning the lottery as part of their PERFECT offseason!

I just have four offseason wishes, I want Ray Allen, Brent Barry and Nedzad Sinanovic here and I want DA gone. I want a three guard rotation of Damon, Ray and Brent with a young player to develop at each guard spot. If we feel those young players are Woods at SG and Cook, Dickau or Gill at PG, fine, if not, draft them. Unless a can't miss player at another position falls to us, I would take a PG and SG at 13 and 23 and the best available player, not now but in the future, in the second round and stash them overseas if we don't have room for them. At this point I would probably pull for Telfair at 13 and Jackson at 23 if we keep the picks we have and don't like our current young players there. I would favor Jackson at 23 even if we keep Woods and develop one at SG and the other at SF. I would prefer to keep Woods personally but if our management feels that he will never get over his drug problem and would be worth more to us in a trade then I could accept that. I don't really care what we do with Patterson, I am fine with keeping him or letting him go in trade or the expansion draft. I would, of course, love to keep both ZBO and SAR but I know we will have to trade one of them to get a SG like Ray Allen, I would still want a backup PF though. I would really like to replace DD but I could handle one more year of him at center.


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## Reep (Jun 4, 2003)

Travis only need three inches to make 7'. And while it is unlikely, don't forget that David Robinson went from 6'9" to 7'1" at about Outlaw's age--so it is possible, just not probable.


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Reep</b>!
> Travis only need three inches to make 7'. And while it is unlikely, don't forget that David Robinson went from 6'9" to 7'1" at about Outlaw's age--so it is possible, just not probable.


I recall a barefoot measurement from last offseason having him at just over 6'7 with a 7'2 wingspan. Those are basically PIP's dimensions, which is great and all, but I'd rather have him top off in Mr Robinsons size. Having grown 8 inches during my 18th year, I know it's possible, but of course I also know it's not likely. I'm just saying what would be the _PERFECT_ Blazer offseason for me  realistic has very little to do with some of my listed happenings... in fact if I could have just two of the things I listed happen, that would be close enough to perfect for me.

STOMP


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## Reep (Jun 4, 2003)

Wow, if he was only 6'7" then they really were stretching to list him as a PF. It would be great if he did grow, but I just want him to do well because he seems to be nice guy. At this point he reminds me a lot of a Miles clone--which isn't a bad thing.


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>gambitnut</b>!
> 
> I don't think Peirce is enough of a shooter for our needs and I want to stay as far away from Raef's contract as possible...


Taking on Raef's contract is how we'd be able to entice them to part with Pierce. Since I'm for the Blazers trading their expiring deals and staying over the cap, RL's contract isn't really a hinderance IMO. I'd have little problem with Raef as a backup big for 15-20 minutes per game. 

PP is not a good enough shooter??? Granted his numbers have dropped the last couple of seasons where he has been pretty much the singular guy that defenses have focused on, but he has put up some staggering stats in the not so distant past...

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/paul_pierce/?nav=page

I figure if he was on the Blazers he'd still be the lead guy that would command the attention of D, but he'd get much better looks overall and wouldn't be doing so much shooting off the dribble. If the D wants to double him on the outside, the inside guys should be able to take advantage. IMO, he's a better overall player then Ray Allen, and coming from outside the division on a team going nowhere soon with a GM who has openly coveted SAR, more realistically attainable. 

http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/articles/2004/02/11/one_that_got_away/

STOMP


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## mook (Dec 31, 2002)

good points, STOMP. I don't really think of Pierce as a shooter, but he hit over 500 three pointers at a 40% clip just three seasons ago. that is pretty damned solid. 

I think I'd still prefer Ray Allen, just because he's a better playmaker. he makes up for some of Damon's deficiencies in that regard. 

frankly, though, I'd be ecstatic to land either of them without giving up Randolph/Ratliff/Miles.


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## gambitnut (Jan 4, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>STOMP</b>!
> 
> 
> Taking on Raef's contract is how we'd be able to entice them to part with Pierce. Since I'm for the Blazers trading their expiring deals and staying over the cap, RL's contract isn't really a hinderance IMO. I'd have little problem with Raef as a backup big for 15-20 minutes per game.
> ...


I agree with trading our expiring contracts, (at least Dale, Damon might actually be needed somewhat at PG), but I think we can get more for them than that. I would first try to trade SAR and filler for a SG without adding ZBO, Miles, Ratliff or our expiring contracts and then try to trade the expiring contracts later.

I was also thinking that most people think of Pierce as the better player so Allen might be cheaper, maybe I'm wrong about that though.


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## Trader Ed (Jun 17, 2002)

OK, I am waffling..... now I think I like this plan of attack




Ok with Nash's comments today, and a posted theoretical roster from our Samuel in another thread.... I wonder about this scenario now as a good possibilty of happening...

Seattle is at risk at loosing Barry due to FA (reported length of contract issues), and possibly Ray Allen the next year as well. They need a PF to step up there roster a bit.

Some have eluded to a portion of this, but I am not sure this combination has been mentioned

*After the July morotorium...*
Portland sends Rahim $14.625 mil + DA $8.4 mil = $25.025 mil OUT
Seattle sends Allen $14.625 mil + Barry (S&T) $5.5 mil** or so = $20.125 mil OUT + *$1.6 mil in filler or so
* If Jerome James opts out it may not be needed depending on Seattle's possible cap space. They possibly would be under the cap enough to be able to absorb the difference in $. Even with Lewis's contract added back in.
** S&T is made slighty above the MLE

Seattle gets their PF they need and get a starting SG as well, even with the threat of loosing Barry. They at least get something for it.

We then use our MLE on Sabas, and vet min on Person
Stepania opts out
Gil and Cook are then let go (non guarenteed). Maybe keep one!
Charlote is persuaded to take Dicaku by giving them our 2nd round pick in 2005

*2004/05 Blazer Roster*
PG Stoudamire, Barry, Sebastian Telfair or ?
SG Ray Allen, Luke Jackson, Person?, Woods
SF Miles, Patterson,
PF Randolph, Davis, Outlaw
C Ratliff, Sabonis, (Davis)

14 players


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## Perfection (May 10, 2004)

That sounds ideal. But I think it is a little unrealisitic. I think it will be hard to actually get Jackson at 23.


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## Blazer Ringbearer (Jan 28, 2003)

I don't think anyone wants DA... he's expensive, injury prone and not all that good in the first place.

They'd be better off letting Barry walk and trying to sign someone like Stephen Jackson for cheap.


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Blazer Ringbearer</b>!
> I don't think anyone wants DA... he's expensive, injury prone and not all that good in the first place.
> 
> They'd be better off letting Barry walk and trying to sign someone like Stephen Jackson for cheap.


After the last couple years he's put together, I'm not sure Stephen is going to come cheap... 

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/stephen_jackson/

While I'm all for turning the surplus of forwards into a top 2 guard, I'm sticking by my feeling that DA will be much better next year then the banged up version that labored for Portland last year. You're right on the prospect of him being traded though... with his contract and recent injury history, he's all Portland's.

STOMP


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## Kmurph (May 7, 2003)

ORL is proving to be an interesting team to watch...



> McGrady has said he doesn't believe there's a college or high school player who can turn around a team. He might be right, but then he hasn't racked up frequent-flier miles scouting players, either."


IF T-Mac agrees to stay, will ORL opt to draft a player or appease him and trade the pick for a veteran player and cap space...



> *Without the contracts of Hill, Drew Gooden and Andrew DeClercq, who will be free agents after next season, the Magic would have enough room beneath the salary cap to offer O'Neal a sizable free-agent contract*, perhaps paving the way for him and McGrady to link up. Though he left Orlando as a free agent in 1996, O'Neal remains fond of the area, where he owns a home. And in McGrady, O'Neal would have a teammate with the ability of Bryant but who would probably happily defer to him."


While obtaining O'Neal may be a longshot, the point is ORL COULD concievably (by trading away Hill (in particular) Gooden & DeClerq, free themselves A LOT OF CAP SPACE. But what teams have that many (or big enough) expiring contracts to offer?

Hmm..... I know of one...Let me see here, SAR, Damon, Dale, Theo...

Not a trade for McGrady, but a trade for the #1 pick? It is posssible IMO, but does Nash want to look that way? I am not sure.

CHI has reportedly showed interest in trading their pick, as has WAS



> "The Wizards are going to explore trades that do and do not include their first-round pick and already have sent out feelers gauging interest in some of their players, including veterans Christian Laettner and Jerry Stackhouse, according to an Eastern Conference official, who requested anonymity to avoid any conflict in potential future transactions. Interest in Stackhouse, who missed most of last season after right knee surgery, is minimal, the source said, because of the injury and the three years, $25 million remaining on his contract."


I think this years draft could be a wild one, but don't we always think that? :laugh: 

Just adding fuel to the fire...


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## SheedSoNasty (Dec 31, 2002)

Kmurph, not only will this year's draft be wild, but the whole offseason is going to be friggin sweet! This las offseason was pretty crazy with all that went down (big names signing/traded), but this coming season could very well be just as good or even top it. Possible options are openning all around the league and you know damn well that Portland could be in the thick of it... I can taste it now... YEEE HAAAW :fire:


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## ABM (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>HOWIE</b>!
> I would offer myself the MLE and call it a day!


Of course, you'd make me your agent, and......I'd still get my 5% cut, right?  

(let's see.........5% of 5 or $6mil........ :thinking: )


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