# Game Thread: Nuggets at Suns - 3/28/05



## cpawfan

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<u>Records</u>
The 52-17 (7-3 over their last 10 games) Phoenix Suns welcome the 38-30 (9-1 over their last 10 games) Denver Nuggets. The Suns are 23-9 at home while the Nuggets are 13-20 on the road. The Suns currently hold the 1st playoff spot in the West while the Nuggets hold the 8th playoff spot in the West. The Suns are the last team to beat the Nuggets.

<u>Starting Lineups</u>

<table border=3 bordercolor="#0000ff" width=100% bgcolor="#99ccff"><tr align=center><td><FONT COLOR="#990000" SIZE=6>Denver</font></td><td><FONT COLOR="#990000" SIZE=6>Position</font></td><td><FONT COLOR="#990000" SIZE=6>Phoenix</font></td></tr><tr align=center><td><FONT COLOR="#ffff00" SIZE=4>Carmelo Anthony</td><td>Small Forward</td><td><FONT COLOR="#cc6600" SIZE=4>Quentin Richardson</td></tr><tr align=center><td><FONT COLOR="#ffff00" SIZE=4>Kenyon Martin</td><td>Power Forward</td><td><FONT COLOR="#cc6600" SIZE=4>Shawn Marion</td></tr><tr align=center><td><FONT COLOR="#ffff00" SIZE=4>Marcus Camby</td><td>Center</td><td><FONT COLOR="#cc6600" SIZE=4>Amare Stoudemire</td></tr><tr align=center><td><FONT COLOR="#ffff00" SIZE=4>DerMarr Johnson</td><td>Shooting Guard</td><td><FONT COLOR="#cc6600" SIZE=4>Joe Johnson</td></tr><tr align=center><td><FONT COLOR="#ffff00" SIZE=4>Andre Miller</td><td>Point Guard</td><td><FONT COLOR="#cc6600" SIZE=4>Steve Nash</td></tr></table>

<u>Storylines</u>
1) How hot are the Nuggets? This road game will serve as a heat check for them.
2) Which big men will play for the Nuggets? The Nuggets need all of their 4/5 players to be available for this game.
3) Is this a playoff preview? If the season ended today, this would be a first round match up.
4) How will the ending of this game compare to the previous 2 contests this season?


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## 77AJ

Great game thread cpawfan!

I like the Nuggets chances in this game. For one all the games against the Suns have been close. Also the Nuggets have only gotten better since the last time we played the Suns.

The last game against the Kings was a great victory before a game like this. It showed the Nuggets will not back down to anyone regardless of the score and situation of the game. We were down to the Kings but came out with a better second half and won the game.

I'm looking for a tough all around basketball game, with Dre and Kenyon playing big time for us. We Just need to get healthy! I also like Dermarr having a nice game. This will be a test for sure to see where this Nugget team really is.

*Game Prediction*

Nuggets win

*Score*

Nuggets - 105

Suns - 101


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## rice613

martin's not playing..

the deciding factor of this game is whether camby plays or not, and if he's 80-100% healthy. Denver lost the last game because they were out-rebounded by the suns. With camby, the nuggets almost won (q rich's buzzerbeater) even though they played without melo. camby is the x-factor for this game because he is the backbone of denver's defensive game. If the nuggets can slow the suns down, and keep the tempo up for their own offensive they'll win for sure. 

if camby plays and is in good shape.. i predict

Nuggets 118 Suns 112


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## 77AJ

rice613 said:


> martin's not playing..
> 
> the deciding factor of this game is whether camby plays or not, and if he's 80-100% healthy. Denver lost the last game because they were out-rebounded by the suns. With camby, the nuggets almost won (q rich's buzzerbeater) even though they played without melo. camby is the x-factor for this game because he is the backbone of denver's defensive game. If the nuggets can slow the suns down, and keep the tempo up for their own offensive they'll win for sure.
> 
> if camby plays and is in good shape.. i predict
> 
> Nuggets 118 Suns 112


Good post.

We really need this Nugget team to stay healthy and get well for playoff basketball. I like our chances to upset the Suns. The Nuggets are so hot right now. I just like all the articles being written about the Team and the comradery that is growing between the players. Every team plays so much better when everyone has the others back. This game will be very good. As the Suns are all of what the Nuggets are turning in to. To a degree. Obviously not on that level yet but were not as far away as some people may think.

I agree with you about needing Camby. If he does play I hope he has a monster game and puts up a 20 point game 15 rebounds. Because we will need his contribution. I also like Carmelo stepping it up in all areas for this game.

Let's go Nuggets!


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## cpawfan

rice613 said:


> martin's not playing..
> 
> the deciding factor of this game is whether camby plays or not, and if he's 80-100% healthy. Denver lost the last game because they were out-rebounded by the suns. With camby, the nuggets almost won (q rich's buzzerbeater) even though they played without melo. camby is the x-factor for this game because he is the backbone of denver's defensive game. If the nuggets can slow the suns down, and keep the tempo up for their own offensive they'll win for sure.
> 
> if camby plays and is in good shape.. i predict
> 
> Nuggets 118 Suns 112


Where did you see or hear that Kenyon isn't going to play? 

BTW, Camby didn't play the first game either. Game 1 Game 2

The Nuggets almost won the last game as well, although the final score wasn't as close as the first game. The biggest difference was that the first game had bothKenyon and Nene, while the second game it was Kenyon and Najera. Elson only had 12 minutes because of foul problems. Even with the depleted front line, Amare and Marion were held down on points, although Marion had 15 rebounds.

The Nuggets need their big men to win or at least 2 of the top 3 (Camby, Nene & Kenyon)


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## cpawfan

This was in the RMN's game report for the Kings game

*Camby*


> The Nuggets played their second consecutive game without center Marcus Camby, suffering from a sprained ankle. This assures Camby, who has a base salary of $6.5 million, won't earn the full $2 million allotment this season for games played.
> 
> Camby was in line for $2 million if he played in 70 games, but he can't appear now in more than 69. Camby already has earned a $500,000 bonus for playing in 55 games, and can earn $500,000 more for reaching 60 and $1 million more for getting to 65.


*Kenyon*


> The Nuggets got forward Kenyon Martin back after he missed a game with a chest contusion. But Martin was reinjured early in the third period, and was done for the night.
> 
> "Pulled something else," said Martin, who was first hurt when he banged into Kwame Brown last Tuesday and doesn't know if he'll play Monday at Phoenix. "I felt fine before the game. I felt well enough to play. That was a mistake, but I couldn't leave the guys stranded. We got guys beat up? It's pain. I just can't raise my arm. Everything is connected."


*Elson*


> Nuggets center Francisco Elson played despite suffered a sprained ankle Thursday against the Los Angeles Lakers. Swingman Bryon Russell, who also sprained an ankle against the Lakers, dressed out Saturday, but didn't play.


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## cpawfan

More injury news from the RMN

Karl doesn't expect Kenyon to dress, is optimistic about Camby and does expect Russell to be able to play.



> "I don't think he'll play," Karl said Sunday. "The report I got (after the game Saturday) is that it's a strain kind of where your ribs are attached."


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## cpawfan

Some notes from the Post

The Nuggets are 8-4 on the road under Karl (total road record 13-20)

Prior to Sunday's games, the Nuggets led the NBA with 9.25 SPG



> "My gut says we'll get Marcus back," Karl said Sunday night from Phoenix. "Kenyon, I doubt, after seeing him walk on the airplane."


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## cpawfan

Game Preview from the Post



> If the Nuggets win tonight and Wednesday at Utah, they will have posted a 13-1 record in March, their best in team history. They went 13-2 in March 1982. Their one loss this month? To the Suns.
> 
> "I think they're a team that's beatable and they're a team that can beat us," Denver coach George Karl said. "I'm not going to make any predictions. I just think this whole week is a challenge to us to sustain our roll."
> 
> ....
> 
> D'Antoni returned the compliment when he said: "George has got them playing well. A lot of times, I'm not saying the other guys didn't do a great job, but when you have a change of voice, it kind of takes the onus off the coach and puts it on the players.
> 
> "The talent is there. They have confidence now. They're winning games maybe they shouldn't win. ... They're a team to be reckoned with. A good team. And everybody thought they would be at the beginning of the season."


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## cpawfan

Game Preview from the RMN



> Karl has brought the joy back for the Nuggets. They were 17-25 and bound for nowhere when he took over.
> 
> Now, it is not unreasonable to think they could travel deep into the playoffs. After a 113-99 home win against the Sacramento Kings on Saturday, Karl said he is hopeful of not sitting down and reading the season's press clippings until June.
> 
> The Nuggets, one game behind the Memphis Grizzlies for the No. 7 seed, could face the San Antonio Spurs or Seattle SuperSonics in the first round of the playoffs. But if the opponent turns out to be the Suns, it cannot hurt to send them a message.


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## socco

Will you guys lose a ****ing game already!!!





Please :gopray:


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## cpawfan

q said:


> Will you guys lose a ****ing game already!!!
> 
> 
> 
> Please :gopray:


Talk to Memphis about the 8th spot. The Nuggets are going for 7th.


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## fruitcake

just 7th? denver could win their next 14 games....they're only 13.5 behind phoenix....i'm thinking 5th or 6th by season's end


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## socco

cpawfan said:


> Talk to Memphis about the 8th spot. The Nuggets are going for 7th.


We don't have the tie-breaker with Memphis, we do with you. Therefore you guys must start losing, because I said so.


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## fruitcake

nuggets match up real well against phoenix.... i think they're going to win this game in a blow out


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## G-Force

fruitcake said:


> nuggets match up real well against phoenix.... i think they're going to win this game in a blow out


A blowout? In Phoenix? Denver is hot right now, but that is a pretty bold prediction.

G-Force


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## BaLLiStiX17

Anything can happen though


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## G-Force

Considering how well Denver is playing and the Suns blowout loss in Miami, yes, anythiong can happen tonight. However, my vBookie money is on the Suns tonight to beat the point spread.

G-Force


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## Weasel

A good clash between a really hot team, Denver, and a really good team in the Suns. Though the Nuggets by far have been the hotter team recently. Can it continue at Phoenix? It could, it should be a close game with lots of high scoring.


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## cpawfan

Nuggets started Russell and Melo at the Forward positions


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## cpawfan

Camby has started off hot from the offensive end. He has 6 of the Nuggets 8 points


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## cpawfan

2 of Camby's 3 baskets have been off of offensive rebounds


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## cpawfan

Time out 5:50 mark and the Nuggets are up 12-8

1 A on 6/15 0/2 from 3 & 0/0 from the stripe

Rebounding 8-8


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## cpawfan

Time out 2:14 and the Nuggets are up 21-18

Dre with 10, Camby 6
3 A's 10/21 & 1/3 from 3

Rebounding: 9-11
Points in the Paint: Nuggets 12, Suns 6


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## Weasel

Nuggets down 1 at the end of 1st but you got to like how the Suns are only shooting 39%. If that continues the Nuggets should win.


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## cpawfan

End of 1st and the Nuggets are down 23-24

Dre 10, Camby 6, Buckner 5 & Melo 2
Suns: Marion & Barbosa 5 each, Jackson 4 and 2 each for Amare, Q, Johnson, Nash and Voskuhl

Rebounding: 10-16, Marion with 6 already

Nuggets: 4 A's on 11/26, 1/5, 0/0
Suns: 3 A's 9/23, 2/7, 4/4


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## cpawfan

Weasel said:


> Nuggets down 1 at the end of 1st but you got to like how the Suns are only shooting 39%. If that continues the Nuggets should win.


But what is troubling is that the Nuggets gave up too many points at the end of the quarter


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## cpawfan

Time out 8:48 and the Nuggets are down 29-34

Rebounding 11-19


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## cpawfan

Time out 5:03 in the second and the Nuggets are down 41-44. Neither team is at full strength as both Amare and Kenyon are in street clothes.

Rebounding 16-22

9 A's 19/39, 1/6, 2/2
Suns: 8 A's 16/37, 4/12. 8/9 - Nuggets need to stop fouling so much


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## cpawfan

If the Nuggets can pull this out, they should pull even with Memphis. The Bulls are up by 13 in the 3rd.


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## cpawfan

Time out 2:44 Mark and the Nuggets are down 42-51


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## cpawfan

rebounding 17-25

Nene, Najera and Melo need to step up on the boards


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## Kuskid

cpawfan said:


> rebounding 17-25
> 
> Nene, Najera and Melo need to step up on the boards


Agreed. Melo was a great rebounder in college (double double), but now that he has to work for em (he was just about always bigger and stronger than the opposing SF), he's backed off a little bit on the boards. I've only seen a few games where he's really worked under the boards, and he pulled down double digits in rebounds every time.


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## cpawfan

OT: I'm watching the Bulls/Grizzlies game on NBA TV and Eddie Curry just completely owned Swift when Swift went up to dunk the ball


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## FreeMason Jr.

Nice come back at the end of the 2nd half. I'm rooting for ya'll on this one


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## cpawfan

Halftime and the Nuggets are down 55-56 after a nice run to close the half. The Nuggets got to the line and converted and then Person hit a 3 with 10 seconds to go.


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## Kuskid

Most statistical categories don't look too bad (10 fast break points to the Suns' 12, 22 to 24 points in the paint, only 7 TO's with 10 forced), but 2 cats stick out: rebounding (as cpawfan mentioned), and 3 point shooting (1 for 7, ouch). Only good thing with that is at least no one's out there just hoisting em, no one's taken more than 2.

EDIT: Thank you, Wesley. Props to Kiki for making that acquisition :biggrin:


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## cpawfan

*Half time stats*

Points in the paint - Advantage Suns 24-28
Fast Break Points - Advantage Suns 10-13
Suns biggest lead was 10 points

Rebounding - Advantage Suns 22-25
Marion with 8 for the Suns
Camby & Najera with 5 each for the Nuggets

Shooting & Passing
Nuggets: 11 A's on 22/47, 3/9 & 8/9
Suns: 11 A's on 21/47, 5/14 & 9/11

Scoring
Dre 12, Melo 11, Camby 10 & Najera 8
Marion 18, Nash 9 and Hunter & Johnson 6 each

Every Nugget except Elson and Kenyon has played


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## ChristopherJ

What's wrong with K-mart?


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## cpawfan

KidCanada said:


> What's wrong with K-mart?


He got banged in the chest by Kwame and then when he tried to play in the last game, he strained muscles in his rib cage. Apparently, he has trouble even lifting his arm


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## Kuskid

cpawfan said:


> More injury news from the RMN
> 
> Karl doesn't expect Kenyon to dress, is optimistic about Camby and does expect Russell to be able to play.


^^


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## cpawfan

Time Out 10:25 mark and the Nuggets started out poorly. They are down 55-63


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## socco

Just my luck, Amare is sitting out when you guys have to play the Suns. :nonono:


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## cpawfan

q said:


> Just my luck, Amare is sitting out when you guys have to play the Suns. :nonono:


Memphis is down 11 in the 4th. Be happy


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## socco

cpawfan said:


> Memphis is down 11 in the 4th. Be happy


Cheared me up a bit, but still, Go Suns!


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## cpawfan

72-75 and Melo just picked up his 4th foul


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## Kuskid

Marion's really stepping up for them tonight with Amare gone. 22 and 10 on 12 shots with no turnovers, and we've still got a quarter and a half to go in this one.


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## cpawfan

74-81 at the 3:47 mark


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## Kuskid

In other news, Wesley Person's stats per 48 minutes would look something like this:
54 points
18/18 3 pointers and FG
6 assists

further proving the worth of stats/48 minutes :biggrin:


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## cpawfan

Kuskid said:


> Marion's really stepping up for them tonight with Amare gone. 22 and 10 on 12 shots with no turnovers, and we've still got a quarter and a half to go in this one.


It is disapointing that no one has stepped up against him. Based upon minutes played, I wonder if Karl doesn't have confidence in Nene yet or if he doesn't believe that he could keep up with Marion?


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## cpawfan

Time Out 2:47 mark and the Nuggets are down 78-83

Rebounding 28-30


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## cpawfan

Kuskid said:


> In other news, Wesley Person's stats per 48 minutes would look something like this:
> 54 points
> 18/18 3 pointers and FG
> 6 assists
> 
> further proving the worth of stats/48 minutes :biggrin:


:rofl:


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## cpawfan

Points in the paint is even at 34 each

According to the stats at NBA.com, there have not been any fast break points yet in the quarter


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## cpawfan

Memphis is now with in 4 points with 1 minute left


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## Kuskid

cpawfan said:


> It is disapointing that no one has stepped up against him. Based upon minutes played, I wonder if Karl doesn't have confidence in Nene yet or if he doesn't believe that he could keep up with Marion?


He's been a bit of a question mark all season. He'll pan out to his full potential sooner or later though.

85-82 Suns now with 2:17 to go in the 3rd. Also, has anyone here ever seen someone besides Earl who shoots free throws without dribbling before?


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## cpawfan

tied up at 85, then Marion makes a shot 85-87


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## cpawfan

Nuggets up 88-87 on a free throw from Nene


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## cpawfan

Suns up 89-88 on 2 FT's from Johnson

Memphis still down 4 with the ball and 16 seconds to go


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## cpawfan

End of 3rd and Nuggets trail 88-89

Rebounding - Nuggets advantage 32-30


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## BaLLiStiX17

Nuggets88 Suns89

Turnover nuggets(11)
hey


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## cpawfan

Shooting and Passing
Nuggets 18 A's on 33/67, 6/12 from 3 & 16/22 from the line

Suns 16 A's on 32/63, 8/19 from 3 & 17/21 from the line


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## Kuskid

Nice turnaround on the boards this quarter, no HUGE rebounding numbers for anyone, but everybody's doing their share.

Also, I just found this in a game thread in my favorites entitled "Bump for Damian" from about 2 months ago. I'll wait until the end of the season to bump the topic:grinning:


Damian Necronamous said:


> To get your *** kicked by the Nuggets is inexcuseable. I'm not even exaggerating here...the Nuggets flat out suck. They are very very bad.


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## cpawfan

BaLLiStiX17 said:


> Nuggets88 Suns89
> 
> Turnover nuggets(11)
> hey


Welcome to the game thread. Fasten your seatbelt for a bumpy ride to the finish


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## BaLLiStiX17

Nuggets96 Suns93


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## cpawfan

Kuskid said:


> Nice turnaround on the boards this quarter, no HUGE rebounding numbers for anyone, but everybody's doing their share.
> 
> Also, I just found this in a game thread in my favorites entitled "Bump for Damian" from about 2 months ago. I'll wait until the end of the season to bump the topic:grinning:


Great find :clap:


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## cpawfan

Bulls beat Memphis

Come on Nuggets, 7th is yours if you pulls this game out


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## BaLLiStiX17

oo nice alley oop Nash to Marion


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## BaLLiStiX17

heh they can take this one..


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## cpawfan

Time out 8:21 and the Nuggets are up 99-95

Rebounds 35-32


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## Kuskid

Wow. After starting 1 for 7 from 3, the Nuggets have now hit their last 7 to go 8 for 15 from beyond the arc. :jawdrop: And meanwhile the play by play guys are talking about what a great job Phoenix is doing of "packing it in on defense."


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## BaLLiStiX17

keep giving it to melo


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## cpawfan

time out 5:39 mark and the Nuggets are up 107-102

Melo had 6 straight points for the Nuggets and now has 19


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## cpawfan

Nuggets down 109-111 at 3:43


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## Kuskid

Melo's hot right now, but a bad shot's a bad shot.
EDIT: Whoa, don't know why that took so long to post.


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## cpawfan

Time out 2:33 mark and the Nuggets are down 109-114

Since the last time out, the Nuggets have been outscored 12-2


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## cpawfan

Kuskid said:


> Melo's hot right now, but a bad shot's a bad shot.
> EDIT: Whoa, don't know why that took so long to post.


The database server had a small hiccup, but everything is normal now.


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## cpawfan

110-115 with 1:57 to go


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## cpawfan

time out 1:09 mark and the Nuggets are down 110-116

rebounding 37 even


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## Kuskid

cpawfan said:


> The database server had a small hiccup, but everything is normal now.


Goctha. And was I the only one who didn't really see the foul on Melo there? That's the thing that irks me the most at any level of basketball, guys getting a foul called because they go through the motions (falling down, throwing their hands in the air). Anyways, the idea that this team can score 120 without Amare playing is kind of scary.


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## BaLLiStiX17

ahh k back had to do something...


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## BaLLiStiX17

omg the team fell apart without George Karl


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## cpawfan

The calls must have been pretty bad since Karl got himself tossed. What happened?


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## BaLLiStiX17

Yeah wut happend and how did Karl get tossed out


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## BaLLiStiX17

heh o well Timberwolves,Lakers,and the Rockets get the suns this week


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## cpawfan

Well crud, the Nuggets lost 123-114

Rebounding was even 39 each


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## Kuskid

Melo missed 2 putbacks that lookedlike they should've been fouls and George went nuts on the ref.

One weakness I noticed tonight is defending the point guard spot. A penetrate and dish PG can tear us apart (hmm who does that sound like?). It usually doesn't look that bad because Camby's there to protect the rim, but that's not where Nash looks to go, he's immediately looking for a cutter or someone standing on the 3 point line. Earl and Dre needed to do a better job keeping him out of the paint (granted that's much easier said than done). And with that, I'm off to bed. Goodnight cpaw n stix.


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## cpawfan

Good night kuskid. Thanks for helping make this a great game thread


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## BaLLiStiX17

Yeah ur right..thats y Nash is an Mvp canidate


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## BaLLiStiX17

It was only us 3 posting?


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## cpawfan

BaLLiStiX17 said:


> It was only us 3 posting?


Yep, and we had some good discussions going. Lets keep doing it and I'm confident that we will be able to get more people posting.


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## cpawfan

BaLLiStiX17 said:


> Yeah ur right..thats y Nash is an Mvp canidate


I am very curious to see what adjustments Karl makes to the defense for the 4th game of the season against the Suns.


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## 77AJ

Very bummed to read the Nuggets lost tonight.

As soon as I came home from my night class I looked the game up on ESPN NBA scores to see the out come. Boy what a tough loss for the Nuggets.

Hope we can rebound from this and begin another win streak. That seems to be the pattern here lately. Win a bunch than lose a game. I don't mind that kind of streaks. Sounds from the thread the Nuggets played hard and kept it close to the end.

Good for coach Karl going after the refs on the behalf of Carmelo Anthony.


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## socco

Thanks guys, I appreciate the loss.


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## tempe85

The Suns beat you without Stoudemire (and are now 3-0 with one more game at home against the nuggets)... how do you expect to beat them in the playoffs?


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## jibikao

G-Force said:


> Considering how well Denver is playing and the Suns blowout loss in Miami, yes, anythiong can happen tonight. However, my vBookie money is on the Suns tonight to beat the point spread.
> 
> G-Force


Just want to clear that the game at Heat wasn't a blowout. We had the chance to fight back. We got as close as 6pt. The 10pt loss is due to "fouling" in the end. Did you watch the game? 

But anyways, I don't know why the Nugget fans think they can own the Mighty Suns. I guess this is a pretty good reality check for them. They are still the #8 seed. Don't dream too much.


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## WSU151

tempe85 said:


> The Suns beat you without Stoudemire (and are now 3-0 with one more game at home against the nuggets)... how do you expect to beat them in the playoffs?


Just stopped by to post a quick thought...

First, the Nuggets aren't expected to beat the Suns in the playoffs. Second, the Nuggets were without K-Mart...After watching this game (first Nuggets game I've watched in a while), I think they can run with the Suns when both Amare and Kenyon are playing. Can the Nuggets win in a seven game series against Phoenix or San Antonio? Meh. They can stretch a series out, I think, but I doubt they'll win.

And Karl wasn't yelling on behalf of Carmelo, I don't think. He was yelling on behalf of the whole team. Hell, Voskuhl got away with like 18,402 illegal screeens (holding, moving, shoving, etc) right in front of ol' George. Officiating was pretty awful, but I do give plenty of credit to Phoenix. They are really really really good.


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## jibikao

tempe85 said:


> The Suns beat you without Stoudemire (and are now 3-0 with one more game at home against the nuggets)... how do you expect to beat them in the playoffs?


Exactly! I have NOOOOOOOOO IDEA why I keep reading about posts that Nuggets > Suns. Do they hate Suns that much?? I think 99% of the reason they say that is because they hate Suns' success. They hate the fact they still win games without the big O (offense). They hate that fact that Suns is proving them wrong every night. 

Nuggets is a hot team but come on, you don't say Nuggets > Suns just because it won a few games recently. They are still the #8 team. An elite team must be consistent and there are only a few teams that are consistent in the league and Suns is one of them.  Suns actually plays better on the Road.


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## cpawfan

tempe85 said:


> The Suns beat you without Stoudemire (and are now 3-0 with one more game at home against the nuggets)... how do you expect to beat them in the playoffs?


Considering that Hunter had more points in this game than Amare did in the last meeting, that doesn't worry me one bit. The Nuggets were without Kenyon and Nene still is working off the rust. It would be a great playoff series, but Nash is the difference. Right now, Denver doesn't have a defensive answer for Nash. 

Can the Nuggets beat the Suns in a best of 7 series, I don't know, but I'm pretty certain that the winner wouldn't be decided until at least game 6. Still, I'd rather face the Suns than the Spurs in the playoffs. The pressure in the playoffs makes everything different. The Nuggets have much more playoff experience and finals experience on the roster.


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## cpawfan

jibikao said:


> Exactly! I have NOOOOOOOOO IDEA why I keep reading about posts that Nuggets > Suns. Do they hate Suns that much?? I think 99% of the reason they say that is because they hate Suns' success. They hate the fact they still win games without the big O (offense). They hate that fact that Suns is proving them wrong every night.
> 
> Nuggets is a hot team but come on, you don't say Nuggets > Suns just because it won a few games recently. They are still the #8 team. An elite team must be consistent and there are only a few teams that are consistent in the league and Suns is one of them.  Suns actually plays better on the Road.


I believe you are mixing several points. 1) Nuggets fans would rather face the Suns than the Spurs in the first round. That is because most Nuggets fans believe that the Nuggets have a better chance of beating the Suns than the Spurs in a 7 game series. Does that mean Nuggets fans believe they are better than the Suns, no, it is that they match up better with the Suns than the Spurs.

2) Suns aren't elite until they prove it in the playoffs. Just like the Nets in 01-02, nobody took them seriously until they made the NBA finals. If the Suns make the Western Conference finals, then they have a claim on elite status, but then again, check the records of last year's Western Finals participants.


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## tempe85

cpawfan said:


> Considering that Hunter had more points in this game than Amare did in the last meeting, that doesn't worry me one bit.


Let me say this first: I really like Hunter. What he has brought to the table for Phoenix this season was beyond anyone's expectations and at times he looks really good.

However you cannot say that Hunter=Stoudemire when it comes to Phoenix's success. Basically what you're saying is that because Stoudemire had an off game against you guys last time (and Phoenix still won mind you) that his impact would have been no different than Hunter's slightly increased minutes today. That is just stupid. Stoudemire averages over 26 points a game at a 57% clip (second in the league), he's the league leader in PPS, now I don't know if you know this but that's efficiency! Stoudemire's impact is huge and the fact the Suns played so well without him just shows their depth (which is vastly underrated... Hunter, Voskuhl, Jackson, McCarty, and Barbosa are solid players... Voskuhl, Barbosa, Hunter, and Jackson all started over half their games last year on their respective teams)


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## RoddneyThaRippa

q said:


> Thanks guys, I appreciate the loss.


Why does it matter? Minnesota is about as sorry as it gets. If you think you're going to the playoffs, think again. You've got a big ticket to the ninth spot.


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## jibikao

cpawfan said:


> I believe you are mixing several points. 1) Nuggets fans would rather face the Suns than the Spurs in the first round. That is because most Nuggets fans believe that the Nuggets have a better chance of beating the Suns than the Spurs in a 7 game series. Does that mean Nuggets fans believe they are better than the Suns, no, it is that they match up better with the Suns than the Spurs.
> 
> 2) Suns aren't elite until they prove it in the playoffs. Just like the Nets in 01-02, nobody took them seriously until they made the NBA finals. If the Suns make the Western Conference finals, then they have a claim on elite status, but then again, check the records of last year's Western Finals participants.


A team that has more than 50W is not elite? Then are you saying that all the other teams that DO NOT have 50W just LET the elite teams win? I don't know why a lot of you guys just treat regular season like nothing. You have a LONG 82-game season and you are trying to battle for the playoff spot and trying to fill your arena with full attendence. You call that "nothing"?? From an owner's perspective, that's SOMETHING really GOOD. 

Anything can happen in the playoffs. An key injury or two will cause the whole thing. While I don't expect Suns to win the championship this year, I will be REALLY happy if Suns can get out the first round or maybe the second round. Remember, Suns was a lottery team last year.  

Nets is still not a very good team with Kidd. I've never liked them. They suck against the elite teams in the West anyway. Any elite teams like Spurs, Mavs, Suns, Kings and the old Lakers can own them easily. When Kidd was in Suns, he certainly didn't push Suns far in the playoffs, did he? We'll see how this Kidd > Nash works this year.


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## cpawfan

jibikao said:


> A team that has more than 50W is not elite? Then are you saying that all the other teams that DO NOT have 50W just LET the elite teams win? I don't know why a lot of you guys just treat regular season like nothing. You have a LONG 82-game season and you are trying to battle for the playoff spot and trying to fill your arena with full attendence. You call that "nothing"?? From an owner's perspective, that's SOMETHING really GOOD.
> 
> Anything can happen in the playoffs. An key injury or two will cause the whole thing. While I don't expect Suns to win the championship this year, I will be REALLY happy if Suns can get out the first round or maybe the second round. Remember, Suns was a lottery team last year.
> 
> Nets is still not a very good team with Kidd. I've never liked them. They suck against the elite teams in the West anyway. Any elite teams like Spurs, Mavs, Suns, Kings and the old Lakers can own them easily. When Kidd was in Suns, he certainly didn't push Suns far in the playoffs, did he? We'll see how this Kidd > Nash works this year.


No, a team that suddenly rises to more than 50 wins is not elite until they either prove themselves in the playoffs or have another few seasons were they are consistently able to have that record.

As far as that Nets, you are completely mistaken and appear to be biased beyond belief.


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## RoddneyThaRippa

I'm not trying to be a hater, but the Suns just don't have the type of team to succeed in the playoffs. This 2005, not 1985, and all that running will be put to a halt come playoff time. 

On top of that, the Phoenix Suns don't defend, period. And in the playoffs you have to defend. 

A first round draw of Phoenix for Denver means a second round appearance. I don't say that because I'm a homer, though. It's just all too obvious that Phoenix is not a playoff team.


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## tempe85

RoddneyThaRippa said:


> I'm not trying to be a hater, but the Suns just don't have the type of team to succeed in the playoffs. This 2005, not 1985, and all that running will be put to a halt come playoff time.
> 
> On top of that, the Phoenix Suns don't defend, period. And in the playoffs you have to defend.
> 
> A first round draw of Phoenix for Denver means a second round appearance. I don't say that because I'm a homer, though. It's just all too obvious that Phoenix is not a playoff team.


What worked in 1985 can easily work today. And guess what? It has! It's bullcrap to say that it can't work in the playoffs... the Mavs for example were a poor mans Phoenix Suns a couple years ago and came within two games of making the finals (an injury to Nowitzki was probably the only reason they didn't make it). And whose to say that when the playoffs start teams will suddenly be able to slow the Suns down when they haven't been able to all season? The Suns just put up 123 points on you guys, more than you've given up all season. I really hope that once the playoffs start some magical formula is going to be created to stop them, because guess what.. the Suns aren't going to change how they play one bit. If they don't go to a half court offense how do you expect to stop them? I've seen teams try to force them into half-court and while it can work for a little bit when push comes to shove it's the Suns who end up controlling the tempo, not the other way around. That's why all their games are high scoring because you are forced to play the way they want you to. 

I don't even know why I'm arguing this. Only 1 number 8 seed has ever won in the first round in the playoffs in the history of the NBA... I should be more concerned with the second round rather than a team who is 0-3 vs. Phoenix this year.


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## cpawfan

Just remember what franchise was that number 8 seed. Playoff hope springs eternal in the Nugget nation.

Also, the playoffs are a different animal. Pressure bursts pipes and your best hope is that the Suns are too young to realize what is going on.


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## WSU151

tempe85 said:


> ...the Mavs for example were a poor mans Phoenix Suns a couple years ago and came within two games of making the finals (an injury to Nowitzki was probably the only reason they didn't make it). And whose to say that when the playoffs start teams will suddenly be able to slow the Suns down when they haven't been able to all season?


The Mavs style worked "almost" once in five seasons...granted, Nowitzki's injury certainly helped San Antonio in '03, but where were the Mavs the other years? Bounced out of the first round twice, and out of the second round the other two times. The Mavs style doesn't work in the playoffs.



tempe85 said:


> I don't even know why I'm arguing this. Only 1 number 8 seed has ever won in the first round in the playoffs in the history of the NBA... I should be more concerned with the second round rather than a team who is 0-3 vs. Phoenix this year.


Actually two #8s have beaten #1s. In 1994, the Nuggets obviously beat the Sonics. And I think the other time was the following year, when the Kings beat the Sonics. Correct me if I'm wrong.


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## jibikao

Playoff..playoff...playoff. You guys sound like Nuggets has accomplished much more than Suns. 

Just because Nuggets is on fire right now doesn't mean they "can" beat Suns. They "may" but the chances are slim. Any team can choke in the playoffs just like how Spurs did last year. I thought Spurs would win for sure. 

I came here to post only because a #8 team is sooooooooooooo full of themselves. Many Suns fans still don't believe we'll win a championship this year (I've stated it already) but NOT because of our running offensive style. It's more because of immaturity. The way we are playing right now, no team can stop us, not even Spurs. We shot just as well against the Spurs except for the 1st game but chokes can happen anytime. 

And by the way, we don't know if you guys are going to be the #8 team... watch out the Wolves are hungry.  

Keep battling for the 8th spot. :clap: That's the FIRST reality check for your team. After you got the 8th spot, then we'll talk.


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## cpawfan

jibikao said:


> Playoff..playoff...playoff. You guys sound like Nuggets has accomplished much more than Suns.
> 
> Just because Nuggets is on fire right now doesn't mean they "can" beat Suns. They "may" but the chances are slim. Any team can choke in the playoffs just like how Spurs did last year. I thought Spurs would win for sure.
> 
> I came here to post only because a #8 team is sooooooooooooo full of themselves. Many Suns fans still don't believe we'll win a championship this year (I've stated it already) but NOT because of our running offensive style. It's more because of immaturity. The way we are playing right now, no team can stop us, not even Spurs. We shot just as well against the Spurs except for the 1st game but chokes can happen anytime.
> 
> And by the way, we don't know if you guys are going to be the #8 team... watch out the Wolves are hungry.
> 
> Keep battling for the 8th spot. :clap: That's the FIRST reality check for your team. After you got the 8th spot, then we'll talk.


Ah smack talk in its opinion driven, fact lacking finest. It is great that you have such a high opinion of the Suns. 

Thanks for stopping by the Nuggets forum.


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## WSU151

jibikao said:


> The way we are playing right now, no team can stop us, not even Spurs. We shot just as well against the Spurs except for the 1st game but chokes can happen anytime.


The Spurs, Rockets, and probably Sonics could all beat the Suns in a seven game series with all teams healthy.


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## RoddneyThaRippa

tempe85 said:


> What worked in 1985 can easily work today. And guess what? It has! It's bullcrap to say that it can't work in the playoffs... the Mavs for example were a poor mans Phoenix Suns a couple years ago and came within two games of making the finals (an injury to Nowitzki was probably the only reason they didn't make it). And whose to say that when the playoffs start teams will suddenly be able to slow the Suns down when they haven't been able to all season? The Suns just put up 123 points on you guys, more than you've given up all season. I really hope that once the playoffs start some magical formula is going to be created to stop them, because guess what.. the Suns aren't going to change how they play one bit. If they don't go to a half court offense how do you expect to stop them? I've seen teams try to force them into half-court and while it can work for a little bit when push comes to shove it's the Suns who end up controlling the tempo, not the other way around. That's why all their games are high scoring because you are forced to play the way they want you to.
> 
> I don't even know why I'm arguing this. Only 1 number 8 seed has ever won in the first round in the playoffs in the history of the NBA... I should be more concerned with the second round rather than a team who is 0-3 vs. Phoenix this year.



To compare that Dallas team to Phoenix is bogus. First of all, Dallas had a prolific scorer in the halfcourt (it could be argued they had two, with Finley). Phoenix doesn't have that. Before you say Amare is prolific in the half court remember how much he benefits from Nash running the floor. If Phoenix is forced into the halfcourt even for a third of the game they won't score as much. Besides, Kenyon, Nene, and Marcus will take care of Amare. 

And why didn't Dallas advance in the playoffs (besides Nowitzki)? Cause they didn't play defense and everyone knew it. Phoenix plays worse defense than Dallas did and the fact of the matter is that won't fly in the playoffs. A team doesn't have to play like the Spurs to win but you've gotta be able to shut someone down at sometime. Phoenix can't. 

I'm really not trying to hate on Phoenix but their style of play won't do anything in the playoffs. All it takes is a good gameplan, preferably a game one win, and good defense to beat them, granted it's easier said than done. Denver won't let Phoenix force their tempo in the playoffs, not that they'll be able to necessarily stop them, but trust me, Phoenix won't be running up and down the court. 

Again, this is the playoffs, not the regular season. Teams like Phoenix just can't get it done in the playoffs. At least Seattle will defend once in awhile. Phoenix plays "first to 100" ball, which doesn't fly in the playoffs unless you've got Shaq.


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## Triple_Single

I don't care how the Suns are doing in the regular season... the playoffs are completely different. When the Suns have to play the same team over and over again every couple of days, that team will be able to make game planning adjustments and they will become more and more familiar with the Suns style. The fact that the Suns haven't had to deal with that in the regular season is the single biggest reason for their great success in the regular season.

No size and no depth has never ever been a recipe for success in the playoffs, and it's not about to start now. The Suns don't have a single player who has proven he can withstand the rigors of the NBA post season. Steve Nash? If anything, he's a proven playoff flatliner.

I can understand these rookie Suns homers thinking they will walk all over the Nuggets if they met in the post season, but thinking that about the Spurs??? What a joke...


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## RoddneyThaRippa

jibikao said:


> Playoff..playoff...playoff. You guys sound like Nuggets has accomplished much more than Suns.
> 
> Just because Nuggets is on fire right now doesn't mean they "can" beat Suns. They "may" but the chances are slim. Any team can choke in the playoffs just like how Spurs did last year. I thought Spurs would win for sure.
> 
> I came here to post only because a #8 team is sooooooooooooo full of themselves. Many Suns fans still don't believe we'll win a championship this year (I've stated it already) but NOT because of our running offensive style. It's more because of immaturity. The way we are playing right now, no team can stop us, not even Spurs. We shot just as well against the Spurs except for the 1st game but chokes can happen anytime.
> 
> And by the way, we don't know if you guys are going to be the #8 team... watch out the Wolves are hungry.
> 
> Keep battling for the 8th spot. :clap: That's the FIRST reality check for your team. After you got the 8th spot, then we'll talk.



First of all, the Nuggets *will* make the playoffs, and may even grab that 7th spot. 

Second of all, and I'll speak for myself, the Nuggets aren't scared of Phoenix. Trust me, I'm prolly the most pessimistic Nuggets fan on the planet, so I'm not being a homer when I say I'm confident the Nuggets can beat Phoenix in a seven game series. 

You guys have had an unbelievable regular season. You're as talented as any team (although you could use another backup player downlow, though Steven Hunter does fill in nice) and you execute your style to perfection. 

That said, your style *won't * fly in the playoffs. Do you really think teams are going to let you run them over when it comes playoff time? Not a chance. I suppose you think no team can stop you even if they try but come playoff time, everyone tightens up on D. 

The Nuggets are athletic enough to run with Phoenix (granted, they don't run nearly effectively as the Suns) and that Denver altitude will slow you guys down some. 

On top of all that, you guys just don't defend, period, and in the playoffs that just won't work. You've gotta be able to stop someone at some time and the Suns are uninterested in that. This isn't 1985 and the highest scoring team doesn't always win. If that were the case, the Spurs wouldn't be so successful (Detroit won last year). 

Again, I'm really not trying to hate but Phoenix can't get it done in the playoffs. You can't run teams, especially a team like Denver, out of the playoffs in 2005.


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## WSU151

RoddneyThaRippa said:


> To compare that Dallas team to Phoenix is bogus. First of all, Dallas had a prolific scorer in the halfcourt (it could be argued they had two, with Finley). Phoenix doesn't have that. Before you say Amare is prolific in the half court remember how much he benefits from Nash running the floor. If Phoenix is forced into the halfcourt even for a third of the game they won't score as much. Besides, Kenyon, Nene, and Marcus will take care of Amare.


Phoenix has two other prolific scorers in the half court - Marion and Joe Johnson. Joe Johnson is one scary player when he's got his shot going down.


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## Triple_Single

BTW, about Dallas two seasons ago… they’d have been swept by the Spurs if the Spurs hit their free throws in game 1…


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## jibikao

Just a few points: 

1.) Suns is NOT Dallas. So please don't say Suns = Dallas. To say Suns is like Dallas is just plain hater. 

2.) Nuggets is still a #8 team. 

3.) I never say Suns is going to win the Ring so you can save your Suns' trashing talks. Say what you want that Suns has NO defense, no experience, blah blah blah. You think other teams don't know we have pathetic defense? You think other teams don't want to figure out how to beat us in the regular season so they know how to prepare in the playoffs? Everybody knows we don't box out that much and even if we get outrebounded by 20, we still win. 

4.) Nuggets fans should feel bad about the team this year. They shouldn't be fighting for the #8/#7 spot right now. Many people EXPECT Nuggets to be better but so far they've been disappointing.


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## WSU151

jibikao said:


> Just a few points:
> 
> 1.) Suns is NOT Dallas. So please don't say Suns = Dallas. To say Suns is like Dallas is just plain hater.
> 
> 3.) I never say Suns is going to win the Ring
> 
> 4.) Nuggets fans should feel bad about the team this year. They shouldn't be fighting for the #8/#7 spot right now. Many people EXPECT Nuggets to be better but so far they've been disappointing.


Suns play the same style basketball Dallas did. And if the Suns aren't going to win the "Ring", then they are Dallas. Congratulations. The Suns as the #1 seed won't get out of the second round. Talk about a disappointment...

And the Nuggets haven't been disappointing in the last two months. Get over yourself.


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## RoddneyThaRippa

WSU151 said:


> Phoenix has two other prolific scorers in the half court - Marion and Joe Johnson. Joe Johnson is one scary player when he's got his shot going down.


Marion and Joe Johnson are *prolific* scorers in the the half court? Please...


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## RoddneyThaRippa

jibikao said:


> Just a few points:
> 
> 1.) Suns is NOT Dallas. So please don't say Suns = Dallas. To say Suns is like Dallas is just plain hater.
> 
> 2.) Nuggets is still a #8 team.
> 
> 3.) I never say Suns is going to win the Ring so you can save your Suns' trashing talks. Say what you want that Suns has NO defense, no experience, blah blah blah. You think other teams don't know we have pathetic defense? You think other teams don't want to figure out how to beat us in the regular season so they know how to prepare in the playoffs? Everybody knows we don't box out that much and even if we get outrebounded by 20, we still win.
> 
> 4.) Nuggets fans should feel bad about the team this year. They shouldn't be fighting for the #8/#7 spot right now. Many people EXPECT Nuggets to be better but so far they've been disappointing.



Dang, you're really taking this to heart. I'm not bashing Phoenix and I've said that about five times already. 

I don't know how much playoff basketball you've watched but defense is of the utmost importance. The Suns can't stop anyone and won't in the playoffs. They can run all they want but when they need to dig in on defense they won't be able to make stops. 

Phoenix won't be a successful playoff team and I'm not saying that because I'm a Denver fan. It's just all to obvious.


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## WSU151

RoddneyThaRippa said:


> Marion and Joe Johnson are *prolific* scorers in the the half court? Please...


What's your definition of prolific, then?


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## RoddneyThaRippa

WSU151 said:


> What's your definition of prolific, then?


Someone who can put up 20+ night in and night out, in a variety of ways. 

Iverson, Dirk, McGrady, Kobe, Lebron, Wade...those types. 

I don't see Marion or Johnson as those kinds of players.


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## WSU151

RoddneyThaRippa said:


> Someone who can put up 20+ night in and night out, in a variety of ways.
> 
> Iverson, Dirk, McGrady, Kobe, Lebron, Wade...those types.
> 
> I don't see Marion or Johnson as those kinds of players.


I see your point now...although Dirk's 20 points were not all from a halfcourt set either, because he also had Nash and plenty of fast breaks.

Marion averages 19.7, so he does get 20 often, but I wouldn't say he's prolific either the way you define it. That goes for Johnson as well.


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## RoddneyThaRippa

WSU151 said:


> I see your point now...although Dirk's 20 points were not all from a halfcourt set either, because he also had Nash and plenty of fast breaks.
> 
> Marion averages 19.7, so he does get 20 often, but I wouldn't say he's prolific either the way you define it. That goes for Johnson as well.


Not that Johnson and Marion can't score though. I think if given the green light, Johnson could probably become prolific. His versatility is scary.


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## WSU151

RoddneyThaRippa said:


> Not that Johnson and Marion can't score though. I think if given the green light, Johnson could probably become prolific. His versatility is scary.


EDIT: I posted one thing, but I misread what you said. I thought it read "Note" instead of "not". I agree with you.


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