# IVERSON ARTICLE : Best small man to ever play the game



## iverson1 (Dec 29, 2005)

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/5200840



To all Nets and Lakers fans intending to post "no" without reading the article (u know who u are!),please leave 10 secs between each post so as not to lag the thread


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## iverson1 (Dec 29, 2005)

of course 
what else am i gonna say?


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## VC4MVP (Dec 30, 2005)

what about Isaih Thomas??


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## iverson1 (Dec 29, 2005)

i prefer the quote from Pat Riley,"pound for pound the best basketball player in the world" 

now thats validation !


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

VC4MVP said:


> what about Isaih Thomas??



i'll take isaah, he won at every level and was able to take guys like rodman and laimbeer and lead them to championships. iverson by every defintion is a warrior, but much more concerned with his personal game than the team game. isaah didnt kill as many coaches either.


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## The Rebirth (Dec 23, 2005)

the heart of a champion


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## Brian. (Jul 11, 2002)

AI is probably the closet thing to Isiah ever but he isn't as good. Isiah's game 6 performance against the lakers in the 88 finals was simply amazing. 



> "He'd cut your heart out to win. And he would put it right there on the floor in front of you, and he'd step on it. That's Isiah," says Pat Riley on ESPN Classic's SportsCentury series.


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## Laker Freak (Jul 1, 2003)

This is one of the best quotes ever: :rofl:



> Stephon Marbury "is the closest thing to a championship player in the draft. (That's) exactly why the 76ers will be making a mistake in the Meadowlands when they fit a baseball cap for the head of Iverson."
> 
> And this: Marbury "is not simply the better playmaker, the better quarterback of an offense. Marbury is the better player. ... Iverson will throw more dunks and sell more tickets. Stephon Marbury, a selfless player in selfish times, will win more games."


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## Whack Arnolds (Dec 5, 2005)

All I have to say is this:

A) It's about time.

and

B) DAMN STRAIGHT!!!


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## Whack Arnolds (Dec 5, 2005)

Brian said:


> AI is probably the closet thing to Isiah ever but he isn't as good. Isiah's game 6 performance against the lakers in the 88 finals was simply amazing.


Iverson has had better performances than that one by Isiah.


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## joe budden (Dec 31, 2005)

Brian said:


> AI is probably the closet thing to Isiah ever but he isn't as good. Isiah's game 6 performance against the lakers in the 88 finals was simply amazing.


How does a one game performance define a players career??


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## Brian. (Jul 11, 2002)

Whack Arnolds said:


> Iverson has had better performances than that one by Isiah.


What about in the 84 playoffs when Isiah scored 16 pts in 94 seconds to force OT? Isiah was by far the better all around player. How this even debatable is beyond me.


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## Brian. (Jul 11, 2002)

joe budden said:


> How does a one game performance define a players career??


Well it shows what kind of a competitor Isiah was. He was on one leg for a lot of the game and still scored 40 pts. They would have won the title if wasn't for a phantom call on Laimbeer at the end.


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## Brian. (Jul 11, 2002)

BTW the title of this thread is mis leading the author is saying he has a chance to be...



> *In fact, Iverson is now on a straight and narrow path that's taking him to the title of "Best Little Man Ever To Play the Game."
> 
> Isiah Thomas currently sits in that throne, * but at age 30, Iverson has plenty of time to supplant him. Listed generously at six feet and 165 pounds, Iverson is playing better and more unselfishly now than he did four years ago — when he was named MVP.


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## AIFan (Oct 23, 2005)

I dream of the day I see AI collect a ring, that will cement his standing as the best little man to ever play the game


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## Whack Arnolds (Dec 5, 2005)

Brian said:


> Well it shows what kind of a competitor Isiah was. He was on one leg for a lot of the game and still scored 40 pts. They would have won the title if wasn't for a phantom call on Laimbeer at the end.


Yeah, A.I. is banged up every game. I can one up your 2 incredible feats by Isiah.... try leading a team of absolute scrubs like A.I. did for a whole season all the way to the Finals. get back to me when Isiah EVER did that. :biggrin: That alone is a better individual accomplishment than Isiah ever had.


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## cambyblockingyou (Nov 26, 2005)

this topic reaks of homerism!


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## Brian. (Jul 11, 2002)

Whack Arnolds said:


> Yeah, A.I. is banged up every game. I can one up your 2 incredible feats by Isiah.... try leading a team of absolute scrubs like A.I. did for a whole season all the way to the Finals. get back to me when Isiah EVER did that. :biggrin: That alone is a better individual accomplishment than Isiah ever had.


No it isn't. Isiah had much better teams no doubt but he led his team past the Bird Celtics, Jordan Bulls and Showtime Lakers. Isiahs competition was 100x better then what AI has had to go through.


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## joe budden (Dec 31, 2005)

Brian said:


> No it isn't. Isiah had much better teams no doubt but he led his team past the Bird Celtics, Jordan Bulls and Showtime Lakers. Isiahs competition was 100x better then what AI has had to go through.


i guess shaq and kobe lakers,drob and timmy`s spurs and jordan`s bulls were scrub team then?....doh!


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## Whack Arnolds (Dec 5, 2005)

Brian said:


> No it isn't. Isiah had much better teams no doubt but he led his team past the Bird Celtics, Jordan Bulls and Showtime Lakers. Isiahs competition was 100x better then what AI has had to go through.


But that doesn't lessen what A.I. did. It's all relative anyway. I'm pretty sure Zeke was never named an mvp for an entire season, nor was he ever the dominate one man force that A.I. has been. I'm not hating on Zeke. I love the guy. He is one of the guys that inspired me to play ball. He reps my hometown of Chicago. But I cannot sit here and say he was the better individual player than A.I. Ivo has had too many dominating years to be denied as the best little man ever. And winning a title is no excuse either. John Stockton is the best pg ever and he never won a ring. Ivo is the best little man to ever play the game. Bar none. Zeke comes in a distant second.


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## Brian. (Jul 11, 2002)

joe budden said:


> i guess shaq and kobe lakers,drob and timmy`s spurs and jordan`s bulls were scrub team then?....doh!


The year the 76ers went to the finals they played

Lost NBA Finals (4-1) to Los Angeles Lakers 
Won East Conf Finals (4-3) over Milwaukee Bucks 
Won East Conf Semis (4-3) over Toronto Raptors 
Won East Conf 1st Rd (3-1) over Indiana Pacers 

When did they play the bulls or the spurs?


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## AIFan (Oct 23, 2005)

Brian said:


> The year the 76ers went to the finals they played
> 
> Lost NBA Finals (4-1) to Los Angeles Lakers
> Won East Conf Finals (4-3) over Milwaukee Bucks
> ...


The Bulls weren't a factor back then and the Spurs weren't good enough to make it to the Finals.


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## Brian. (Jul 11, 2002)

Whack Arnolds said:


> But that doesn't lessen what A.I. did. It's all relative anyway. I'm pretty sure Zeke was never named an mvp for an entire season, nor was he ever the dominate one man force that A.I. has been. I'm not hating on Zeke. I love the guy. He is one of the guys that inspired me to play ball. He reps my hometown of Chicago. But I cannot sit here and say he was the better individual player than A.I. Ivo has had too many dominating years to be denied as the best little man ever. And winning a title is no excuse either. John Stockton is the best pg ever and he never won a ring. Ivo is the best little man to ever play the game. *Bar none. Zeke comes in a distant second*.



I don't understand the agrument that AI is a better all around player. Isiah could do it all. Clearly Isiah was the better the defender and better at creating for his teammates. Some of the numbers he put up early in his career were absurd. In 85 he averaged over 21 pts per game and 13.9 assist with this roster.



> Isiah Thomas
> Bill Laimbeer
> Vinnie Johnson
> Kelly Tripucka
> ...


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## Brian. (Jul 11, 2002)

AIFan said:


> The Bulls weren't a factor back then and the Spurs weren't good enough to make it to the Finals.


I know that but Joe Budden said



> i guess shaq and kobe lakers,drob and timmy`s spurs and jordan`s bulls were scrub team then?....doh!


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## Whack Arnolds (Dec 5, 2005)

Brian said:


> I don't understand the agrument that AI is a better all around player. Isiah could do it all. Clearly Isiah was the better the defender and better at creating for his teammates. Some of the numbers he put up early in his career were absurd. In 85 he averaged over 21 pts per game and 13.9 assist with this roster.


Scratch that. I put them as equals...lol. 21 pts and 14 dimes a night is absurd.


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## EGarrett (Aug 12, 2002)

Interesting topic.

Iverson might be the best small man ever. He's improved his passing, but since he's still so selfish it's hard to grade him above guys like Isiah who understood the team game and knew how to use their teammates.

Plus don't forget that Iverson isn't the only little guy to dominate in the NBA. Tiny Archibald scored as much and had more assists.

And Calvin Murphy!


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## Whack Arnolds (Dec 5, 2005)

Calvin Murphy was bonkers as well.


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## joe budden (Dec 31, 2005)

Brian said:


> The year the 76ers went to the finals they played
> 
> Lost NBA Finals (4-1) to Los Angeles Lakers
> Won East Conf Finals (4-3) over Milwaukee Bucks
> ...


when did the topic become about one season??

iverson had to lead his team against those teams over the last 10 years


Your argument started by saying that isiah was better because of one game and i proved that stupid

You now claim that isiah is the better little man because his team had a harder run of teams for one season

what does team accomplishments have to do with individual awards?? 

robert horry has six rings(team achievements) but no-one would argue that he`s a better individual player than Grant Hill who does`nt.

You cant base individual accomplishments on team achievements


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## Banjoriddim (Aug 14, 2004)

joe budden said:


> when did the topic become about one season??
> 
> iverson had to lead his team against those teams over the last 10 years
> 
> ...


If you want to be demagogical, then give better try kid, this is just phatetical. Still do you agree that Ishiah was better defender and had much better understanding about the game (was better leader?)?


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## DuMa (Dec 25, 2004)

i still remember when isiah threw that bad pass and bird stole it and passed it to dennis johnson and cost them the playoffs. 

thats what defined him for me.


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## GoDWade (Jul 25, 2005)

EGarrett said:


> Interesting topic.
> 
> Iverson might be the best small man ever. He's improved his passing, but since he's still so selfish it's hard to grade him above guys like Isiah who understood the team game and knew how to use their teammates.
> 
> ...



Iverson is not selfish. He was selfish before, but during the last 3 seasons he has finally matured fully into a leader on the court and as the heart and soul of the team.He is difficult to play with in the sense that his teammates need to be on a certain level of skills in order for them to hang with him, (and it is this exact reason why Iguodala is so impressive), but he ain't selfish, big difference

I didn't watch Thomas and Archibald played, so I can't comment on them. But I find it futile to say Iverson is better or worse than those players. He BELONGS to those top tier legendary players. What is amazing about Iverson is he can shoot from both inside and outside, he takes pounding game after game (yet he still drives hard to the basket for every year he has been in league), he is doubled/tripled team all the time yet he still average close or over 30 ppg, he plays hard on defense, he does not get crushed by the non-stop criticisms on him that instead he has only become a greater player, now he still averages as much as before yet he is one of the top guards leading in assist, he is clutch, he battles through so many injuries that most players would've sat out or retired already.

He should be the icon of the NBA


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## ChrisWoj (May 17, 2005)

joe budden said:


> You now claim that isiah is the better little man because his team had a harder run of teams for one season


No, you claimed that Iverson was better because he made it to the finals during that one season that he had a run of no hard teams in his conference.

And you argue about the Shaq/Kobe Lakers being in the way and the D-Rob/Timmy Spurs being in the way... The only valid argument is the Jordan Bulls being in Iverson's way.... until, what, `99? After that, they've been gone.

The Pistons went through AND BEAT the Showtime Lakers, they went through AND BEAT the Bird Celtics, they went through AND BEAT the Jordan Bulls in the playoffs.

I say in the end Iverson will come out as the more revered, and he is right now... especially with Thomas tarnishing his rep in NYC... but Isaiah could do it all. I put Iverson ahead of him in the other thread, but I think I was wrong upon reading everything here... I simply don't know Isaiah that well.


-Chris.


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## Roy Abundah (Jan 1, 2006)

well he`s the better player without shaq or jkidd+rj on his team


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## Don DeLuise (Jan 2, 2006)

yes


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

AI is probably one of the top 5 guards to ever play the game, let alone small men.


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## Sanjan (Mar 12, 2003)

The fact of the matter is that zeeke is the best small man to play the point gaurd position ever to this day. 

Iverson is the best small combo gaurd. 

based on raw athletism u gotta give it to ai but on game smarts zeeke. it almost seems like a dead heat until u realise that zeeke won what was it 2 titles? and ai will be lucky to make it to the conference finals ever again.


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## Sanjan (Mar 12, 2003)

SkywalkerAC said:


> AI is probably one of the top 5 guards to ever play the game, let alone small men.



i doubt that. 

mike 
magic
oscar
jerry west
Nate Archibald (who is smaller then ai by the way)

theres more ai has his place. but its well behind these names.


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## ballocks (May 15, 2003)

i thought iverson would be a bust. i didn't know how his game would translate to the pro level- in fact, i thought it wouldn't- and he's made me look like a fool. the man can play basketball, and i think he's one of the most entertaining stars in the nba. 

i guess isiah has the "legend" factor on his side- he's been retired for awhile, and people can exaggerate the kind of player he was rather easily- but if that were muted, i think most people would prefer iverson, championship or no championship. i would absolutely rather have AI leading my team on the floor than zeke, and that's not at all a slight in isiah's direction; that's just how much i think of iverson.

i think allen's also a little/relatively un_der_appreciated in terms of his will to play for the sixers, and his comfort as a franchise superstar. aside from his legal troubles in '01, he hasn't really presented too many issues for distraction- and he certainly hasn't been your typical ballet dancer/nba superstar ("give me this, give me this, give me this, you better give it to me or you don't know what you're doing"). isiah was even better in that regard, i think, but iverson has been even more refreshing in this age of kids running multi-million $$$ organizations. 

and he only played one year in college. john thompson must really have some excellent program to build men out of boys- oh wait, alonzo... never mind. 

peace


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## The Effin One (Jul 22, 2005)

Isiah Thomas is in no way, shape, or form anywhere near as dominant or as good as AI.

Yeah, Isiah played against better competition. Isiah also had one of the greatest coaches of all time and an all star squad. Laimbeer, Rodman, and Dumars are all better players than anyone Iverson has ever played with.

Isiah was not responsible for victories like Iverson was. When you think of the Detroit Pistons that won the championships (or even contended), you don't think "Wow they have Isiah Thoams, one of the most dominant little men ever!" what you think is "wow, this is the team that changed the entire way teams play defense." If you were to put Isiah against todays NBA defenses-defenses he never saw because HIS TEAM invented them-his assists would go down, as would his scoring.

Isiah never won MVP, never won All Star Game MVP, wasn't even the unanimous best player on the court at all times like Iverson is (I believe Dumars won one of the MVPs in the finals-if he's more dominant than AI how come he didn't run away with the MVP?). Isiah's never led the league in scoring. Isiah never was in the top 5 for 3 categories. Isiah Thomas had the most revolutionary defensive team in the history of the league. Take that away from him and you have Tiny Archibald, which certainly isn't bad company, but not quite at the level of AI.

I've also gone over defensive intensity that an individual player takes away from his teammates, like how Shaq and Duncan do. Iverson is the same way. Isiah Thomas was not. This is partially because defenses didn't key in on one player back then like they did today (because Isiah's Pistons were the first team to do that), but I really doubt Isiah would be able to considering he never came close to leading the league in scoring.


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## SirCharles34 (Nov 16, 2004)

AI is clearly the better player, but the one thing that seperates the two guards is their front office. 

Detroit always tried to surround Isaih with the best players (Adrian Dantley, Mark Aguirre), while Iverson is stuck with a circus clown whose name happens to be Billy King.

AI would be winning championships too if he had the type of talent that Isaih had.


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## Your Answer (Jul 13, 2005)

:biggrin: Anyone who has said AI is selfish in this thread is purely a bull****ter and prolly only seen Iverson on Hilghlight films please do not speak if you dont know what your talking about If you actually watched Sixer games there no way you could make that assertion unless you were dropped on the head as a child

as for the purpose of the topic obviously im going to say he is He is the reason i am a sixers fan for that reason I mainly became a sixers fan the day he got drafted after watchin him thruout his Georgetown Career Thomas never impressed me like Allen has sure Thomas was a great player but he also had a great team so dont sit here and tell me he brought these guys to beat all these teams
cuz those guys he supposivly "brought" could play to and they were not role players Allen took nothing but Role players to the NBA FINALS and beat the Lakers in game 1 in LA but arguing it is pointless bc it is pretty obvious any Detroit fan is going to say Thomas and any Sixers fan is going to say AI so we can jus wait til it goes down in History 

and AI is OFFICIALY known as the greatest small man to ever play the game :biggrin:


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## Sliccat (Oct 16, 2004)

I love articles like this. It's great to see AI getting the respect he deserves from the media.


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