# NBANOITALLs GM Summer



## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

Back when I started on this board I used to do some of these posts. Pervious suggestions included....
getting Jerry Stackhouse via the bobcats
trading up for Ben Gordon
Of course Stack was once considered a cancer. And most Nuggets posters didnt want to give up a veteran to move up in the draft to get Gordon. Hindsight is 20/20, Stackhouse had done well in his role with the Mavs, and Gordon turned out very well. But I also would have moved Camby back when we picked up Melo. Now clearly that is not looked at very postively, but I wouldnt have signed Kmart either.
Here is my thoughts on the current state of the team.
Kenyon Martin. The Nuggets wouldnt mind if he didnt have a successful comeback. Insurance would pick up the bill and he'd be gone. If he does come back and play decent it becomes a questions of what team is desperate enough for a big man to take his contract.
Camby and AI. Basically I think both guys are in the same boat. If the Nuggets dont get out of the first round this coming year. Bye, Bye Bye. 
Its show or go for JR Smith. Step up defensively along with your offense, and both karl and smith need to work things out.
As a general manager, overall I would have been dissatisfied by the Nuggets offseason moves. I understand the trade for Hunter as backup Camby insurance. Thats cool. But the Nuggets overall have not improved the weakness in the roster. Basically swap Blake or Atkins, and Evans for Hunter.
As for super scrub insurance they go out and get Augmon. Sounds like they arent so sure about Diawara.
My number one off season target would have been Morris Peterson. I'd throw the MLE at him. No guarantee the Nuggets get him, but I think they would have had a pretty darn good shot.
Secondly, I'd have gone after Ime Udoka. He got 2 years two million for the spurs. Less than the LLE. Udoka is everything the Nuggets wish Diawara would be. Not sure what impact he would have on the spurs, but I believe he would have had a big one on the Nuggets.
The only other point Id like to bring up is Marvin Williams Jr. Rumors have been out that he could be available. There was a little rumor going around one time he might end up in Denver. The Nuggets should fully investigate that. Especially after they drafted Horford. 
If Demetris Nichols is waived I hope Denver doesnt pass him up.


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## ¹²³ (Jan 8, 2003)

What do you tell me about Nene?


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

¹²³ said:


> What do you tell me about Nene?


I was impressed with Nene his rookie year. He's so athletic we've actually seen him injure himself doing things he really shouldnt be doing. I remember him going down last time because of his crazy penetration move.
Regardless I am still impressed with Nene when he is healthy and on the court. I wouldnt move Nene, Melo, or JR. Those guys appear to be the young core of this team.
Camby and AI on the other hand are not untouchable. I believe Wanker and the front office will give them this season to see how things go
Thats why I'm pushing for Marvin Williams Jr. I really see Nene as the future starting center for the denver nuggets. I think if he plays there he is more likely to play his kind of game and stay out of injury trouble.


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## darth-horax (Nov 21, 2005)

I think if we could get Marvin Williams, he'd totally thrive in our system.
He'd be a long-term fixture in Denver.


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## Kuskid (Aug 18, 2004)

From the way Isiah's been talking, it sounds like Nichols isn't going anywhere. But I think he'd be an ideal fit, splitting minutes with JR at the 2 and playing the 3 when Melo's not on the floor. Any take on Kleiza this season? If Smith really gets buried in the doghouse and he gets some big minute at the 2, I can definitely see him stepping into a role as a consistent forth option on offense (please get Nene some touches this year, Georgie). I'd love to see him put up 12-14 a night, and I've said for the past year that it's only a matter of time before he does. Hope I'm right.


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## jericho (Jul 12, 2002)

I don't see Marvin being a very effective SF, though. Maybe in a full-bore, constant running attack, especially given that Anthony can rebound and post up well from his position. But faced with a team like San Antonio or Detroit that excels at controlling the pace, I'm concerned they'd get eaten up alive. Especially if you're talking about a Denver frontline that essentially replaces Camby with Marvin.


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

jericho said:


> I don't see Marvin being a very effective SF, though. Maybe in a full-bore, constant running attack, especially given that Anthony can rebound and post up well from his position. But faced with a team like San Antonio or Detroit that excels at controlling the pace, I'm concerned they'd get eaten up alive. Especially if you're talking about a Denver frontline that essentially replaces Camby with Marvin.


you mean Williams playing PF? The eventual frontline would be Nene, Williams Jr, and Melo. 
As I've posted above we have no idea what to expect from Kmart, one thing to bet on with him is injuries. And serious ones at that.He could come back and do ok, but he also could basically be done too.
Camby, well look at his age. If the Nuggets fail to get past the first round, both he and AI are going on the trading block for sure.
The only young core big on the roster is Nene. Adding a talented young big (6'9 235) in Williams would be a great addition.
If Nene can be healthy and play 35 mpg this year. Id predict his stat line 15 ppg 9 to 10 rebounds and a block. Considering the way he played last season.
If Thomas keeps Fred Jones, both Nichols and Houston would have to be waived.


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## darth-horax (Nov 21, 2005)

Marvin Williams was a SG/SF in college, I dont' know if he could handle playing a big in the L.


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

yea i wouldnt say he was a shooting guard at UNC, he was more of a combo forward even then, although he was definiately considered a wing player coming into college.
I think he's developed since then. Especially last year. Camby is a center in the league and look how thin he is. I guess I just dont see the match up problem. The suns figure it out with Diaw, we could too. Plus the Nuggets would start forcing teams to adjust their lineups. Williams and Anthony could do serious damage together I think.
anyone want to talk AI trades? My guess for the team that wants him the most is Dallas, especially after that first round loss of their own last year. Assuming they cant pull that crazy kobe trade on AM radio I would assume AI would be a prime target.
I personally have interest in Devin Harris. I cant imagine Dallas giving up Howard or Dirk obviously, but Harris I could see. I dont see that trade being available until december when they can trade Stackhouse.
<TABLE class=breakdowntable width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD>Jose Barea
6-0 PG from Northeastern
2.4 ppg, 0.8 rpg, 0.7 apg in 5.8 minutes </TD></TR><TR><TD class=photo>







</TD><TD class=even>Devin Harris
6-3 PG from Wisconsin
10.2 ppg, 2.5 rpg, 3.7 apg in 26.1 minutes </TD></TR><TR><TD class=photo>







</TD><TD>Jerry Stackhouse
6-6 SG from North Carolina
12.0 ppg, 2.2 rpg, 2.8 apg in 24.1 minutes </TD></TR><TR><TD class=photo>







</TD><TD class=even>Jason Terry
6-2 PG from Arizona
16.7 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 5.2 apg in 35.2 minutes </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE class=breakdowntable width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TH scope=col colSpan=2>Outgoing Players</TH></TR><TR><TD class=photo>







</TD><TD>Chucky Atkins
5-11 PG from South Florida
13.2 ppg, 1.9 rpg, 4.6 apg in 27.6 minutes</TD></TR><TR><TD class=photo>







</TD><TD class=even>Allen Iverson
6-0 PG from Georgetown
26.3 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 7.2 apg in 42.5 minutes</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Dallas Trade Breakdown
*Change in Team Outlook: -1.8 ppg, -3.5 rpg, and -0.6 apg. *

<TABLE class=breakdowntable width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TH scope=col colSpan=2>Incoming Players</TH></TR><TR><TD class=photo>







</TD><TD>Chucky Atkins
5-11 PG from South Florida
13.2 ppg, 1.9 rpg, 4.6 apg in 27.6 minutes </TD></TR><TR><TD class=photo>







</TD><TD class=even>Allen Iverson
6-0 PG from Georgetown
26.3 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 7.2 apg in 42.5 minutes </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE class=breakdowntable width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TH scope=col colSpan=2>Outgoing Players</TH></TR><TR><TD class=photo>







</TD><TD>Jose Barea
6-0 PG from Northeastern
2.4 ppg, 0.8 rpg, 0.7 apg in 5.8 minutes</TD></TR><TR><TD class=photo>







</TD><TD class=even>Devin Harris
6-3 PG from Wisconsin
10.2 ppg, 2.5 rpg, 3.7 apg in 26.1 minutes</TD></TR><TR><TD class=photo>







</TD><TD>Jerry Stackhouse
6-6 SG from North Carolina
12.0 ppg, 2.2 rpg, 2.8 apg in 24.1 minutes</TD></TR><TR><TD class=photo>







</TD><TD class=even>Jason Terry
6-2 PG from Arizona
16.7 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 5.2 apg in 35.2 minutes</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


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## darth-horax (Nov 21, 2005)

So, you're basically taking crack, right?

AI and Chucky Atkins for Devin Harris, two post-prime aging hipsters, and filler?

If we trade AI I'd assume it'd be for high draft pix and a proven scorer a la Ray Allen.


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

darth-horax said:


> So, you're basically taking crack, right?


What did the Nuggets give up for AI? Look at all the major players that got traded around the league. AI, Shaq, Garnett etc
I mean sure add a first round pick to it from dallas.... im sure it would be a late one.
Stackhouse is clearly post prime. But he would be nice to have around to split time with JR Smith.
Jason Terry on the other hand is still in his prime by my estimation (he's impressed me since he has been in dallas). He's 30 now a year or two younger than Andre Miller.
Speaking of Devin Harris, his style of play fits what the Nuggets are looking for in a PG. The plus to it is he would be around for a long time too. He has all star potiental. 
Ray Allen and a high first round pick. See thats something that just not possible. The boston celtics arent going to lose. Its going to be teams looking to win a championship that trade for AI.
Moving an aging AI for an aging Ray Allen is what wouldnt make sense. Same goes for Camby, no reason to trade one old man for another.


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## Sliccat (Oct 16, 2004)

As for the Dallas trade, it's a B- trade for the Nuggets. I think they would get a little better just from moving the ball around more, but from all reports, AI has had an extraordinary locker room effect that none of those players parallels.

For Dallas, i don't know. They need somebody like AI: a go-to score who's clutch and steps up playoff time. On the other hand, AI dribbles a little too much. But Dirk would be really great for AI's pick and fade game, and again, it takes away from Dallas' depth alot.... it's just hard to predict. 

As an AI fan, I wouldn't really mind seeing it, but I'm not really sure it's even worth the effort.

idk if the contracts add up though.


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## Sliccat (Oct 16, 2004)

The best thing that could happen to the nuggets this season is Atkins getting injured. As a back-up, he's perfect. But AI and Melo (and the nuggets for that matter) won't be as effective as they can be unless AI is at point. He's got a number of issues, but he's been doing incredibly in the preseason, and he's only going to get better at running the point with more exposure to it. 

That's not even mentioning how awfully they'll get ripped up by good SG's.


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

Sliccat said:


> The best thing that could happen to the nuggets this season is Atkins getting injured. As a back-up, he's perfect. But AI and Melo (and the nuggets for that matter) won't be as effective as they can be unless AI is at point. He's got a number of issues, but he's been doing incredibly in the preseason, and he's only going to get better at running the point with more exposure to it.
> 
> That's not even mentioning how awfully they'll get ripped up by good SG's.


Personally, I think AI is trying hard. I just dont think he's a good fit with Melo. I'm taking sides with Melo too because of his age. When you build a team in Denver you gotta do it around Melo.
On my list of young guys with bright futures is Devin Harris. He is ready to start in the league now. He's fits denver's system very well. And hes young. Plus you get Terry who has a serious perimeter game. And Stack to split time with JR. 
The nuggets arent contenders now. they have some older players the eventually will have to get moved. my personal opinion is, we wont contend with this roster.


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## jericho (Jul 12, 2002)

nbanoitall said:


> you mean Williams playing PF? The eventual frontline would be Nene, Williams Jr, and Melo.
> As I've posted above we have no idea what to expect from Kmart, one thing to bet on with him is injuries. And serious ones at that.He could come back and do ok, but he also could basically be done too.
> Camby, well look at his age. If the Nuggets fail to get past the first round, both he and AI are going on the trading block for sure.
> The only young core big on the roster is Nene. Adding a talented young big (6'9 235) in Williams would be a great addition.
> ...


Yes, sorry, I meant Williams as a PF. He was a combo forward at UNC and he's been a combo forward in the NBA--not in the sense that he can excel at either spot, but in the sense that he doesn't fit quite right at either spot.

I'd be happy to eat my words on this, whether or not he ever wears a Nuggets uniform. But I'm a ways from being sure that he'll ever be a star in the NBA, let alone that he can hold his own at PF. He just doesn't have the physique or mindset.


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## darth-horax (Nov 21, 2005)

I actually think the Nuggets will contend for the West this year, with the roster they have now.

However, if we're looking at 2 years down the road, I think we all understand that Camby, Najera, and maybe AI will be moved by then out of necessity.


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## Sliccat (Oct 16, 2004)

darth-horax said:


> I actually think the Nuggets will contend for the West this year, with the roster they have now.
> 
> However, if we're looking at 2 years down the road, I think we all understand that Camby, Najera, and maybe AI will be moved by then out of necessity.


i don't know about all that. I'm optimistically expecting 55 wins.


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## Sliccat (Oct 16, 2004)

nbanoitall said:


> Personally, I think AI is trying hard. I just dont think he's a good fit with Melo. I'm taking sides with Melo too because of his age. When you build a team in Denver you gotta do it around Melo.
> On my list of young guys with bright futures is Devin Harris. He is ready to start in the league now. He's fits denver's system very well. And hes young. Plus you get Terry who has a serious perimeter game. And Stack to split time with JR.
> The nuggets arent contenders now. they have some older players the eventually will have to get moved. my personal opinion is, we wont contend with this roster.


No doubt you build a team around melo, at least from an offensive standpoint. He's already a more effectient scorer than Iverson ever was. He might not be quite as dynamic or explosive, but he's much more stable.

I also agree that Iverson is trying hard, but it doesn't matter if he's not put into a position to succeed. Putting Iverson at SG is safer, but it limits him and anthony to isolating at opposite sides. The only way they contend, with this roster, is putting him at point, putting Iverson at the top, Anthony at one side, and Nene at the other.

Also, I'd like to see them take more advantage of Iverson's off the ball skills. People forget, while he gets noticed for dribbling, he's probably the best in the league at coming off screens. On the nuggets, they actually have people that can shoot, so either he gets open, or the attention he gets gives other people shots.

Karl's just not creative enough.


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## darth-horax (Nov 21, 2005)

I think a key here is Kleiza. If he's hitting his shot, then people won't be able to double AI coming off the screens, leaving him with many options to attack the rim.


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## Sliccat (Oct 16, 2004)

darth-horax said:


> I think a key here is Kleiza. If he's hitting his shot, then people won't be able to double AI coming off the screens, leaving him with many options to attack the rim.


I'd agree, but he's just as bad calling SG's as Atkins will be. They go over atkins, but they go right around Kleiza.


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

sliccat i basically agree with you for the most part. I'm not so quick to write of Karl, just because he has done well with the Sonics in the past. If he didnt run into Jordan and Pippen hed have a ring. Interesting, I think Melo is very explosive. I think I like Melo so much because I see the old school player in him that I miss in the NBA.
AI has to be a point guard I agree. I was watching reddick and nelson get abused by the cavs guards and wings offensively. The same thing will happen to AI and Atkins. Kleiza has no shot a guarding twos.
Saying the key is Kleiza to I would assume we are talking about success, contention, whatever... now that I just have to disagree with. 
Kleiza is going to look great every preseason playing against other superscrubs, but when you plug him in your starting lineup opening day (especially at guard) he is going to be overmatched and out played. However he would make a nice reserve forward for Denver. But he isnt the key to anything other than being a 15 to 20 minute a night reserve.
Idk how much time Udoke will get with the Spurs, but I am still really pissed the Nuggets didnt sign him. Udoka is a good defender... a good wing defender. Basically a team guy that will shoot 41 percent from the three point line and defend the other teams best wing. See he may not be a big name but he's a damn good fit. 6-5 220lbs wing defender with range on his jumper. Exactly what denver needs.
The gaping whole on this team is still at two guard. JR will probably be inconsistent. Diawara is 12th man material. Augmon needs to be at a casino with Larry Johnson. Roberson is very talented in my opinion, but he is a midget too, he will get shot over.
The key to Nuggets contending is whoever successfully fills the 2 guard slot. MoPete is another example of the type of player needed on this roster. Like John Salmons or not, his type of play last year and this preseason is way better than another other nugget two guard.


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## Sliccat (Oct 16, 2004)

I wouldn't put john salmons on the roster if they got him for free. He can't function in the Nugget's offense, he needs too many touches. I watched the guy for 3 years... he can't play without the ball. Horrible match-up with Iverson and Anthony. Maybe if they were running a different type of offense, but the Nuggets' offense involves too much one-on-one for him to excel.

Personally, I was hoping to see Posey get signed here, although Peterson would've been nice too. I agree that SG is the hole here... I'd play Smith personally, he plays much worse with limited minutes because he tries too hard. I think the positives outweight the negatives when he plays 25-30 mpg.

Maybe Wafer or Jones will suprise us.


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## darth-horax (Nov 21, 2005)

Jones has been a huge surprise in the preseason so far.

To clarify my statement, I don't think Kleiza is a starter at SG. I think he'll get a lot of pt split between the 2 and 3. Denver basically runs a 2 pg set, so the reason I said Kleiza is a key is because if he's hitting his shots (or whoever else is in a the time) the d won't be able to double AI coming off of picks, or double melo in the post. It's imperative taht whoever is playing in the game knock down their 3's and open shots. Otherwise it'll be a long year for the Nuggs.

I would love to get Posey back, but it's not happening.


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## Sliccat (Oct 16, 2004)

I'm watching the pistons game. Definately Jones over Diawara. Not only can he shoot better, he's a much better defender. I'm in the first half, and he's already forced an 8 second, locked down whoever he guards, and gotten a couple skills.

A little more polish on offense, and he's the best SG here, at least based on that game.


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## darth-horax (Nov 21, 2005)

Honestly...if he's consistent, I could see him starting at the two by the all-star braek.

I have feeling that JR will be moved...I dont' want to see him leave, but I just can see that happening with Karl's regime.


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

its nice to see jones step up. but seriously think about other "real" contending teams. they arent talking about jones or kleiza type players being the key to anything. No offense to either but if Kenyon ends up staying healthy kleiza wont find much time at the four. He cant defend the two. Hes a backup sf. thats its behind.... Carmelo Anthony who will play a ton of minutes.
I'm sure Jones is underrated, Ive seen him in college too. I dont believe he will be good enough going up against the other teams starting wing every night. No offense but with Greg Buckner we were weak at the two. And I dont suspect we get anymore out of Jones that we did Buck.
Posey isnt a bad suggestion... a former Nugget obviously. He's had past injuries and I just think MoPete has more in the tank. You can always count on Mo getting a good night's sleep too on the road, Al Franken has a better shot at getting laid then Mo.:lol:
Any Buffalo fans in here? Surely somebody remembers Morandais... this guy has so much more game than Diawara its not even funny.........


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## Sliccat (Oct 16, 2004)

Well, there's no chance at posey anymore... I wanted them to spend the MLE on him, or any good SG for that matter. As for what you're saying, you're wrong. Even the contenders are looking to that 8th player to step up. With the spurs, it's Elson, or that PF european guy they have... or some has been sg (Barry, Finely)


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

yes as an 8th man..... bobby jones..... if he started, would be in the top 5. if karl started kleiza...... same thing....


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## darth-horax (Nov 21, 2005)

Morandais would be cool, but he hasn't played against NBA calibre talent yet.

I'm hoping that maybe B-Jones can be a Bruce Bowen type of player (without the intentional foul problem) liek Diawara was supposed to be.


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## Sliccat (Oct 16, 2004)

nbanoitall said:


> yes as an 8th man..... bobby jones..... if he started, would be in the top 5. if karl started kleiza...... same thing....


Starting doesn't make you one of the top five.


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

Sliccat said:


> Starting doesn't make you one of the top five.


actually arent the positions number? pg 1 sg 2 sf 3.....:biggrin: the starting five....
I get ya but I have to use buckner as an example. Based on that he started and got minutes with denver I say you would have had to consider him one of your top five guys by default like it or not. If say Jones comes in starts and plays big minutes.... it just further will illustrate the problems with denver's backcourt.
This is were the elson situation is different than the jones. They save Robert Horry for games that actually matter later on. In the playoffs we are going to be looking at Duncan, Horry, Bowen, M. Ginobili, and Parker when it counts
Or Stoudmire, Diaw, Marion, Bell, Nash. Now Camby, Nene, Melo, Jones, AI. or Camby Nene, Melo, AI, Atkins.
Its going to be the same story. The only way we get out of the first round is to win enough games not to go up against the top tier of the west. And if that happens (with Melo all year i probably can) we are likely screwed in the 2nd round.
You all proclaim your love for Najera, but moving him might be the key to contending in the west.


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## Sliccat (Oct 16, 2004)

nbanoitall said:


> actually arent the positions number? pg 1 sg 2 sf 3.....:biggrin: the starting five....
> I get ya but I have to use buckner as an example. Based on that he started and got minutes with denver I say you would have had to consider him one of your top five guys by default like it or not. If say Jones comes in starts and plays big minutes.... it just further will illustrate the problems with denver's backcourt.
> This is were the elson situation is different than the jones. They save Robert Horry for games that actually matter later on. In the playoffs we are going to be looking at Duncan, Horry, Bowen, M. Ginobili, and Parker when it counts
> Or Stoudmire, Diaw, Marion, Bell, Nash. Now Camby, Nene, Melo, Jones, AI. or Camby Nene, Melo, AI, Atkins.
> ...


Maybe, but getting Salmons would be disastrous. Not that it will ever happen. They'll ask AI about him and he'll say no.



> This is were the elson situation is different than the jones. They save Robert Horry for games that actually matter later on. In the playoffs we are going to be looking at Duncan, Horry, Bowen, M. Ginobili, and Parker when it counts
> Or Stoudmire, Diaw, Marion, Bell, Nash. Now Camby, Nene, Melo, Jones, AI. or Camby Nene, Melo, AI, Atkins.


That's why the situations are the same, not different.


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## darth-horax (Nov 21, 2005)

I guess, according to the above logic, that Vinnie Johnson wasn't top 5 on the Pistons championship teams of the 80's? 

The crack must not be passed in this thread!!!


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## Sliccat (Oct 16, 2004)

darth-horax said:


> I guess, according to the above logic, that Vinnie Johnson wasn't top 5 on the Pistons championship teams of the 80's?
> 
> The crack must not be passed in this thread!!!


Or Manu isn't one of the top five spurs.


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## RoddneyThaRippa (Jun 28, 2003)

Quite simply, the front office failed this offseason. Goal? Bring in a defensive wing that can hit threes. It really isn't that hard but they didn't get it done. Can Jones be that guy? From what I understand, and despite his preseason showing, he is fairly limited on offense. Can he be a 35% guy from downtown? I have no idea. If he can, then yes, he is the solution. J.R. has no interest in calming down and playing the game right. Honestly, I'd rather Karl just start him and take the good with the bad, but it isn't going to happen. Diawara doesn't belong in the league. Kleiza is a liability on offense. Wafer? Maybe. I think he'll take some development but he could get there. 

What was so difficult about bringing in a stopgap? Karl said the other day that the Atkins-Iverson idea is out the window for now, mostly due to injuries. So the front office expended all that money, time, and energy on getting Karl's "guy" in here, and he isn't even going to start the season. 

The only redeeming parts of this offseason have been the fact that the team is fully healthy and have time to develop together. I could see a five to ten game improvement off that alone. But will Karl start running plays? Is he going to make Iverson dump the ball into Nene 15 times a game? Will he start holding everyone responsible for screwing up? I think the big problem here is Karl, and I don't see him changing one iota. Hate to be pessimistic, but I've watched this go coach for awhile and he's absolutely awful, on top of the fact that he is completely arrogant and slow to admit and correct his mistakes.


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## darth-horax (Nov 21, 2005)

I woudl actually like to see the Nuggs pick up Coby Karl. his game reminds me a lot of Luke Walton, who is an energy guy who can hit the open shot when it's given to him.

If the Lakers don't keep him, I would not be surprised if the Nuggs give him a call.


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

Sliccat said:


> Or Manu isn't one of the top five spurs.


im being somewhat sarcastic. their are some very valuable 6th men in the league obviously, boykins was for the nuggets previously. my only point is the top teams in the league dont have the problem denver has. bottomline somebody has to play the two guard this year. Until we find somebody I dont consider the Nuggets contenders. Point being contending teams dont rely on players like Jones or Kleiza like this thread talks about the Nuggets relying on them. They Spurs contention certainly doesnt rest on Elson, he isnt the key to anything. When the games matter we are watching Robert Horry hip check people into the scorers table...
Lie to yourself all you want but the Nuggets were to cheap to get us somebody.


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## darth-horax (Nov 21, 2005)

They were too cheap cause they were over the salary cap. Until they can make a trade, they won't be ablet o do anything about that...unless they just go with JR Smith, whcih isn't a bad option with the defenders we have in the post.


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## Sliccat (Oct 16, 2004)

RoddneyThaRippa said:


> Quite simply, the front office failed this offseason. Goal? Bring in a defensive wing that can hit threes. It really isn't that hard but they didn't get it done. Can Jones be that guy? From what I understand, and despite his preseason showing, he is fairly limited on offense. Can he be a 35% guy from downtown? I have no idea. If he can, then yes, he is the solution. J.R. has no interest in calming down and playing the game right. Honestly, I'd rather Karl just start him and take the good with the bad, but it isn't going to happen. Diawara doesn't belong in the league. Kleiza is a liability on offense. Wafer? Maybe. I think he'll take some development but he could get there.
> 
> What was so difficult about bringing in a stopgap? Karl said the other day that the Atkins-Iverson idea is out the window for now, mostly due to injuries. So the front office expended all that money, time, and energy on getting Karl's "guy" in here, and he isn't even going to start the season.
> 
> The only redeeming parts of this offseason have been the fact that the team is fully healthy and have time to develop together. I could see a five to ten game improvement off that alone. But will Karl start running plays? Is he going to make Iverson dump the ball into Nene 15 times a game? Will he start holding everyone responsible for screwing up? I think the big problem here is Karl, and I don't see him changing one iota. Hate to be pessimistic, but I've watched this go coach for awhile and he's absolutely awful, on top of the fact that he is completely arrogant and slow to admit and correct his mistakes.


Come around here more often. I really enjoy your basketball posts. Spot on.


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

darth-horax said:


> They were too cheap cause they were over the salary cap. .


if they would have called up udoka's agent and offered him an LLE multi year deal... he would have taken it.
as Rippa said.... FAILURE. 
The team sucked before Melo got here, but ever since he's been here there has been the exact issue that we are talking about. 2 guard issues.
Instead of moving a guy who probably wont be here next year and who plays the same position as Kleiza, they are shopping JR Smith. Najera should be shopped.


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## RoddneyThaRippa (Jun 28, 2003)

Sliccat said:


> Come around here more often. I really enjoy your basketball posts. Spot on.


No one reads to or replies to my basketball posts because they always think I'm making a political point. They see roddneytharippa and just skip over it. I am trying to post in this particular forum more though. It'd be nice if more people came through.


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## darth-horax (Nov 21, 2005)

The Nuggs have needed a 2 guard since Fat Lever retired.


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## Sliccat (Oct 16, 2004)

From Karl's comments, it seems like Diawara has the starting job. I'd prefer jones, but as long as it isn't atkins, i'm fine.


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## darth-horax (Nov 21, 2005)

They tried starting Diawara last year, and that didn't last due to his horrid shooting.

If he could get consistent, I think he'd be the best man for the job overall. He's a defensive 2 guard, but if he coudl get that 3 ball to fall 40% of the time or so, he'd be great in our Offense.

We dont' need a 2 who will score 20+ ppg. We need a 2 who can hit the open 3 consistently..and draw a little D away from Melo and AI.


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## Sliccat (Oct 16, 2004)

I think you're right that Najera could be the key. I wonder if him for Raja would be possible. He's exactly the guy they need, plus he's great in the clutch.


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## darth-horax (Nov 21, 2005)

They could do better than Raja Bell. I mean, the guy is nice, but he just doesn't seem to be the answer, if you follow me.


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## Sliccat (Oct 16, 2004)

darth-horax said:


> They could do better than Raja Bell. I mean, the guy is nice, but he just doesn't seem to be the answer, if you follow me.


No Raja would be perfect. All they need is somebody who can hit open three point shots and play defense. Raja is great at these things, and can be relied upon in the clutch. Also, he doesn't really mind not shooting for long periods, something that's hard to find. IMO, Raja makes this team a much bigger threat come playoff time.


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

diawara starting a shooting guard. not cool. unless JR Smith really has a big year and turns it around the Nuggets are going to have that huge gap we are talking about
Raja is exactly what denver needs, and they could have had him at the perfect time back when he was a free agent. I doubt Raja is available he starts for the Suns at the two and they are obviously contenders in the west. 
Corey Maggette comes to mind as g/f that appears to be on his way out of the clippers organization. I'm a big fan of his but he isnt a great three point shooter. Hes still a big improvement over anyone else we have though. Kinda of topic but he a kobe are good buddies. the lakers should be trading for him... but yea Maggette could be an option.
If Udoka doesnt end up playing for the Spurs maybe Denver could talk them into parting with him.
I hate to bring up the knicks, but they do have some guards and I'm sure Dolan would take an expiring contract. Not mentioning Thomas because unless he wins hes gone, and I dont think hes going to win.


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## darth-horax (Nov 21, 2005)

I made a post in another thread where I ate my words and said that Bell would be a great pickup in retrospection.
Ironically, I also mentioned Maggette as a possible pickup. When he's healthy he's a very good SG who would fit in with our scheme.

I think he'd be a good fit since he wouldn't be asked to score 20+ a game. Any way we can get the aging Jerry Stackhouse up here for a season or two?


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