# Fred Jones close to signing with Raps



## tobybennett (Jun 12, 2003)

Looks like Colangelo has his plan B in place. Word on the street (tsn.ca) says the raps are real close to a deal with Fred Jones. I don't mind him as a replacement, I hope the contract is somewhat smaller than what we offered up to Salmons. Our team should be full of dunks.


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## Coatesvillain (Jul 17, 2002)

This is a much better move than getting Salmons, especially considering that Salmons is a known malcontent.


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

Yeah, hopefully it's around the $12-15 million range, but you're definitely right about the dunks. With Parker and Jones coming in, we're going to be seeing a lot of highlights this season.


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## clutchmoney (Feb 14, 2006)

for the right price this guy will fit perfectly into BC's system...if true, its good news.


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## madman (Oct 20, 2003)

he seems 1 dementional to me, but as long as its a good short deal i wont be unhappy


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## neltron3030 (Jun 30, 2006)

I said when the Salmons deal apparently had gone through that I would much rather have Jones and House than Salmons....and probably shorter terms than what Salmons got.

What do you think Jones will get? I would be please with anything in the 5 yr/$20 mill range. I think House can be had for maybe 3 yrs/$4.5 mill.


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

Coatesvillain said:


> This is a much better move than getting Salmons, especially considering that Salmons is a known malcontent.


Well Philly fans saying not getting Salmons and getting Jones at least gives me some confidence... All the philly fans really seem not to like salmons, so maybe it was a good thing to happen after all.

I like Freddy.. doesn't bring the versatility of salmon but he's solid, can defend, give the crowd a show, decent passer, rebounder.. 

hopefully he comes cheaper, and for a shorter amount of time.

or hopefully we don;t sign freeddy and trade mo -pete /package (calderon?) for a young up and comer


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## Greg Ostertag! (May 1, 2003)

He is pretty one dimensional, but as far as the Raptors are concerned its a GOOD dimension. This guy is (or may be) fed on the break by TJizzle half-a-dozen times a game.

Pretty lucky that Salmons pulled out on this one, I think, gang.


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

clutchmoney said:


> for the right price this guy will fit perfectly into BC's system...if true, its good news.


Nowadays, who doesn't fit into BC's system?

Anyways, I'm alot more supportive of this move than the Salmons one.


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## BaLL_HoG (Jun 17, 2006)

Pros- Fast, Crazy Athlete, good defender.

Cons- Short

I like this signing alot more then the Salmons as I think Freddy could really flourish in a run and gun system like we are trying to build. Remember Indy was mostly a halfcourt team.


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## WhoDaBest23 (Apr 16, 2003)

This is a way better fit than Salmons would've been. I never thought that Jones would end up with the Raps, but I think this would be a good fit both ways.


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## tobybennett (Jun 12, 2003)

BaLL_HoG said:


> Pros- Fast, Crazy Athlete, good defender.
> 
> Cons- Short
> 
> I like this signing alot more then the Salmons as I think Freddy could really flourish in a run and gun system like we are trying to build. Remember Indy was mostly a halfcourt team.


Throw CANT SHOOT on the list of cons. That sounds like the big problem with this guy. I'm still looking forward to having Freddy on the team though, looks like a solid player. That's why I wouldn't mind the addition of Eddie House now, I don't even like him that much as a player, but the raps could use another pure shooter off the bench. 
I wonder what Salmons was thinking, now that PHX signed Banks. I wonder if there's any team that will offer Salmons anything close to what the raps gave him, I guess he must know something we don't ( I kinda think Salmons sucks, and now he looks like an idiot too).


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

tobybennett said:


> I wonder what Salmons was thinking, now that PHX signed Banks. I wonder if there's any team that will offer Salmons anything close to what the raps gave him, I guess he must know something we don't ( I kinda think Salmons sucks, and now he looks like an idiot too).


The guy is too much of a talent not to be casted off into Europe. He'll find a home before training camp begins, and I know he won't be getting the same amount of cash BC was offering him.


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## tobybennett (Jun 12, 2003)

Ohh, I think he's sticking in the NBA for sure. Just like you said, I don't think he will get the same contract. Just strange he changed his mind on that big of a contract.


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## southeasy (Jun 11, 2003)

i like this alot better then salmons...just want to wait till i see the figures.


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## basketball_fever (May 28, 2003)

he should bring some good fast break dunks


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## bill8164 (Jun 25, 2003)

just remember he is a restricted free agent, so indiana has the right to match


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## tobybennett (Jun 12, 2003)

Ohh yaa, that's right. I didn't even think about that, but hopefully they won't match. If they are bringing in Harrington I'm not sure they have the cap room anyways.


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## Rhubarb (Mar 19, 2005)

Indy have enough wings as it stands right now.


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## different_13 (Aug 30, 2005)

Indi won't match, but they might try a S/T (i'm thinking they could do with a big.. don't see who they could get from Toronto though.. Maybe Kris Humphries?) ...ok, let's rule out S/T..

Seems a decent defender (bit small though, 6'2), good rebounder for position/size. Great on the break. But is it just me, or should a slasher have a better FG percentage? Chucker tendencies, perhaps?


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

I read somewhere that Indiana didn't make him the qualifying offer ? so he may not be restricted. Not sure about that. If he is an RFA then the Raps may have to overpay to make the price unattractive to IND. Not good.

Jones is a good role player on a winning team. He comes from a strong defensive system and has some playoff experience. But Salmons had way more upside and was much more versatile.

Decent depth signing if we don't overpay.


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## BaLL_HoG (Jun 17, 2006)

I think Indy recinded there QO offer for jones, therfore making him a urestricted free agent.


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## aizn (Jun 19, 2005)

any report of this actually being considered by Colangelo?

on a side note, i can't help but theorize that BC had a big part in Salmons NOT coming to toronto. Knowing how great of a business man BC actually is, he probably used his smarts to talk Salmons into not accepting this deal. Or perhaps i'm giving colangelo too much credit. lol


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## AirJordan™ (Nov 21, 2005)

Nice. I'll be happy if he signs with the Raptors. BC was going to spend that money one way or another, and I'd be happy if he uses some of it on Jones. Since the Philly fans seemed to dislike Salmons, I wasn't too sure about Salmons anymore...but what do I know about him? I'm really glad Salmons backed out of his deal now.


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## MjM2xtreMe (Sep 1, 2005)

The pacers did make a qualifying offer but it was rescinded. According to toronto sun it is for less money than they offered Salmons which is a good deal.


http://torontosun.com/Sports/Basketball/2006/07/23/1698420-sun.html


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## billfindlay10 (Jan 24, 2003)

I am not sure about this signing......Jones is an undersized slasher who can not shoot.....how is goint to play at the same time as either of our 2 point guards.....a back court with Jones and T.J. or Calderone will be awfull. Unless Anthony Parker can play the point, Jones wont get much run in Toronto.


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## Greg Ostertag! (May 1, 2003)

Disagree, mate. A lot of teams are carrying undersized two-guards/combo guards and will also run two point guards at the same time. It's a sign of the times. Jones' lack of shooting ability may hurt you, but his size shouldn't be too much of an issue IMO.


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## reganomics813 (Sep 2, 2005)

While I don't want to get to far ahead of things because he is an RFA, he is definately an upgrade over Salmons and you guys should be excited. Fred is a way underrated shooter, everybody remembers he was in the dunk contest but that's only a fraction of this guys game. He's got nice midrange and 3 point range and has excellent decisonmaking. He can handle the ball and setup teams in the half court pretty well but he's not a PG by any means. His height is so not an issue it's rediculous, he's fast and long enough to guard anybody the opposing team throws at him at the two and he'll stick to them like glue. His one area of concern is his knack of losing some games every season to injuries and sometimes his stubbornness to play through them where it affects his play. If everything works out and he does become a Raptor your only problem will be finding time to get all these good players time out on the floor. Between Parker, Peterson, Graham, Jones, and Bargani you guys have a rediculous amount of options at the 2/3 spot. Colangelo is doing all he right things so far, excellent move yet again.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

A qualifying offer was made to Jones but recinded. He is an unrestricted free agent. Indiana doesn't have the right to match.


I'm not worried about Jones' shooting because Salmons isn't much of a shooter either. We're not taking a big step down in that regard. Jones is going to give us better defensive intensity and will hopefully thrive on the fast break.


This is probably a good turn of events for the Raps.


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## reganomics813 (Sep 2, 2005)

billfindlay10 said:


> I am not sure about this signing......Jones is an undersized slasher *who can not shoot*.....how is goint to play at the same time as either of our 2 point guards.....a back court with Jones and T.J. or Calderone will be awfull. Unless Anthony Parker can play the point, Jones wont get much run in Toronto.


That's just not true. His shot has gotten progressively better every year he's been in the league. He's not a gunner like House but Fred can shoot, and he has the ability to hit important shots as well. Trust me i'm a Nets fan and he's killed us on numerous occasions with that shot. It makes his ability to blow right past you that much more hard to guard. His size means very little when he can drain a shot over you with the height he gets off the ground on his jumpshot and when he can ellivate over the other teams bigman for a jam. He's no PG but he can handle the ball on the run and makes good decisions, he had to man the point at times for Indy thanks to injuries and he did alright. He'll get PT.


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## Team Mao (Dec 17, 2005)

Although I was looking forward to Salmons coming here, after I found out he was a little too into himself, I quickly changed my tune.
I've seen little of Jones other than the occasional regular season game and playoffs. I think he'll fit in nicely here with what we need, much more than say Eddie House. And from what I've read from Pacers fans, the guy has a great attitude and shouldn't cause any problems. 
It looks like Jones is going to be backup SG and maybe 3rd PG? If so, then the roster is filling out nicely.


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## BaLL_HoG (Jun 17, 2006)

Team Mao said:


> Although I was looking forward to Salmons coming here, after I found out he was a little too into himself, I quickly changed my tune.
> I've seen little of Jones other than the occasional regular season game and playoffs. I think he'll fit in nicely here with what we need, much more than say Eddie House. And from what I've read from Pacers fans, the guy has a great attitude and shouldn't cause any problems.
> It looks like Jones is going to be backup SG and maybe 3rd PG? If so, then the roster is filling out nicely.


Jones is strictly a shooting guard and nothing more.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=TXhxznbQl4Y&search=Fred Jones for you dunk fans


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## open mike (Jan 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by *tobybennett*
> word on the street (tsn.ca) says the raps are real close to a deal with Fred Jones.


howcome no link to the street? i think this is just one of those rumours made out of thin air, just because its a possibility.


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## BaLL_HoG (Jun 17, 2006)

open mike said:


> howcome no link to the street? i think this is just one of those rumours made out of thin air, just because its a possibility.


You know nothing!

Tsn only runs with things like this when there about 99.9 % sure its going to happen.

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/41629/20060723/fred_jones_raptors_close_to_deal/


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## martymar (Jan 5, 2006)

This is nice, I like Jones better than salmons better defensive and has proven he can play when given minutes


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## PacersguyUSA (Sep 1, 2002)

madman said:


> he seems 1 dementional to me, but as long as its a good short deal i wont be unhappy



Nah, he's definately not one dimensional. He was the best slasher on the Pacers, and he's a good three point shooter. He's a great rebounder for his position/height, and he was put in many times as a defensive stopper.


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## shapeshifter (Jun 13, 2005)

His best season was 2004-05 when he started 14 of 77 games, averaged 10.6 points and 3.1 rebounds per game while shooting 42 per cent from the field and 38 per cent from three-point range.

So... shooting 42 % from the field in the NBA now means that you can't shoot... tough leaque!


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## no_free_baskets (Jan 4, 2006)

attributes needed on the raps roster:

- perimeter defender --> check
- scoring off the bench ---> check
- slasher ---> check
- ability to hit in the clutch ---> check
- overall g. depth ---> check

i'm sorry to say to the "BC can do wrong fanclub", but BC did it again... provided the contract is in the general vicinity of the salmons deal (hopefully less yrs, but doubtful...4-5 yrs seem to be the norm even for mid level plyrs...), another good move by BC...

God, im so glad we dont have to put up with the likes of the nightmare gms of the past.......BC has done more to improve the team in the past couple of months then any of our previous gm's have done in yrs.....so far, i'm enjoying the BC era immensily...


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

no_free_baskets said:


> attributes needed on the raps roster:
> 
> - perimeter defender --> check
> - scoring off the bench ---> check
> ...


I was a little skeptical at first but when the Anthony Parker signing is what really sold me on BC as the epitome of everything that is perfect. Along with the scoring punch of Kris Humphries and the defensive prowess of Rasho Nesterovic, how could the Raptors not contend for Atlantic Conference supremacy next year?...


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## FanOfAll8472 (Jun 28, 2003)

reganomics813 said:


> While I don't want to get to far ahead of things because he is an RFA, he is definately an upgrade over Salmons and you guys should be excited. Fred is a way underrated shooter, everybody remembers he was in the dunk contest but that's only a fraction of this guys game. He's got nice midrange and 3 point range and has excellent decisonmaking. He can handle the ball and setup teams in the half court pretty well but he's not a PG by any means. His height is so not an issue it's rediculous, he's fast and long enough to guard anybody the opposing team throws at him at the two and he'll stick to them like glue. His one area of concern is his knack of losing some games every season to injuries and sometimes his stubbornness to play through them where it affects his play. If everything works out and he does become a Raptor your only problem will be finding time to get all these good players time out on the floor. Between Parker, Peterson, Graham, Jones, and Bargani you guys have a rediculous amount of options at the 2/3 spot. Colangelo is doing all he right things so far, excellent move yet again.


Good post (nice username too lol). Jones is better than Salmons. Jones has a decent mid-range jumper and is very good at taking players off the dribble. He seems to have all kinds of strange hand/finger injuries though.

The downside of Jones compared to Salmons is that he can't really play the point. But I've never really liked Salmons at point anyway - he overdribbbles and turns the ball over too much.


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## TRON (Feb 29, 2004)

Defense - that is what I remembered the most about Jones (after the Dunk contest)

He should help our team defence immensely, and might come in as our best man on man defender in the backcourt. 

He doesn't bring the abilty to play pg like Salmons, so I bet BC is still looking for that 3rd Pg to back up TJ and Calderone.


too bad for Kobe, you know he was gonna try and get 100 on us!! :biggrin:


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## MjM2xtreMe (Sep 1, 2005)

> Fred is a short SG who has good D, and his shot has improved every year, he can play the point if need be, but not for very long, he has pretty good speed, and can drive to the basket, but turns over the rock way too much, and his handle is below average...He can go for 20 or 30 one night, and the next completly disappear, he's also very overrated as a dunker, although he's very athletic for his size....He usually shoots around 80% from the line, but when the game's on the line well that's another story, oh and he also has a decent 3 point shot...All in all though he's a very good bench player, and also doesn't cost any problems off the court....
> 
> Anything else I miss??


Here's what Jones brings to the table courtesy of Pacerholic


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

Am I the only one concerned about a SG averaging only 9.6ppg in 27min..... well that in itself does not concern me.... it would usually suggest that he is a complimentary scorer that gets a few easy baskets a game... 

But if he doesn't shoot much, and he gets a few easy scores, HOW THE HELL IS HE ONLY SHOOTING 41%.

OR - he has no ability to use his athletic ability to create many easy scores.


Brutal offensive player.. even complimenary - amongst the worst offensive SG's in the league IMO.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

JuniorNoboa said:


> Am I the only one concerned about a SG averaging only 9.6ppg in 27min..... well that in itself does not concern me.... it would usually suggest that he is a complimentary scorer that gets a few easy baskets a game...
> 
> But if he doesn't shoot much, and he gets a few easy scores, HOW THE HELL IS HE ONLY SHOOTING 41%.
> 
> ...


I'd give most any player playing under a Carlisle, Frank, or Van Gundy a pass on offensive inefficiency. Those are some of the stiffest coaches in the league.


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## billfindlay10 (Jan 24, 2003)

JuniorNoboa said:


> Am I the only one concerned about a SG averaging only 9.6ppg in 27min..... well that in itself does not concern me.... it would usually suggest that he is a complimentary scorer that gets a few easy baskets a game...
> 
> But if he doesn't shoot much, and he gets a few easy scores, HOW THE HELL IS HE ONLY SHOOTING 41%.
> 
> ...


This is what I am thinking as well......look at Bonner's fg% and ppg.....much more effective in his role...and yes I know they are two very different players! It is just an example.


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## BaLL_HoG (Jun 17, 2006)

JuniorNoboa said:


> Am I the only one concerned about a SG averaging only 9.6ppg in 27min..... well that in itself does not concern me.... it would usually suggest that he is a complimentary scorer that gets a few easy baskets a game...
> 
> But if he doesn't shoot much, and he gets a few easy scores, HOW THE HELL IS HE ONLY SHOOTING 41%.
> 
> ...


WTF? Brutal offensive player?

The guy was a 10ppg scorer while playing 27 mins a game and taking around 600 field goal attempts last season. Now go look at our own Charlie Villanueva who was a 13 ppg scorer in more PT and about 300 more field goal attempts then Jones.

Jones also did this on a playoff team who played a prodominantly slow half court offense where he was about option 4-6. Villanueva put up those numbers on a bottom feeder team that played a wild chuck when u like style offense where he was the 3-4th option.

You gotta reacess the "brutal offensive" player comment, unless you want to accept goin by numbers he's just as effective as our once beloved rookie CV.

and Jones actually does shot quite a bit on most night. He'll if your all worked up on his FG% go look at Peterson's career fg% and its just the same (42%).


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

billfindlay10 said:


> This is what I am thinking as well......look at Bonner's fg% and ppg.....much more effective in his role...and yes I know they are two very different players! It is just an example.


Carlisle (and KO's) style vs Sam's style...hmmm...


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## southeasy (Jun 11, 2003)

that brutal offensive comment is gross, have you seen fred jones play?


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## c_dog (Sep 15, 2002)

awesome signing. i thought the salmons signing was solid but was slightly disappointed when he backed out(dumb move imo). i like this signing better than the salmons one though. fred jones is an exciting player who can really dunk and score in bunches. he's a good slasher and has a nice stroke at the 3pt line. his height is a concern but considering he's a great one on one defender and has the ability to score regardless of who you put on him, perhaps height is just a number that doesn't mean anything in this case. i like jones, i like his attitude and what he brings to the floor and he fits this team perfectly. with TJ and Fred in the backcourt they are going to be a lot of fun to watch.


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

I really hope some way this isn't true. I was almost sure Freddie was restricted, too.

Anyway, I'll go ahead and tell everyone how he plays:

He loves slashing to the basket, and is good at it, too. He's strong, quick, and explosive. The only downside is that he jumps in the air far too often, and because of that, turns the ball over.

He's a pretty good defender. Again, strong and quick, with long arms for a 6'2" guy.

Pretty good at handling the ball, but isn't a very good passer. He could log some PG minutes, but he's basically a SG.

As for his shooting: It's improved every year, except this year. He's normally pretty good when he doesn't have finger/hand/wrist injuries. His shot is pretty line drive, though. He can get pretty hot at there, and leaving him open is a mistake.

He can and will take over games.

He's not a great dunker, but he's very exciting in games. As in, he's not going to take off from the FT Line or do 360 windmills, but he will dunk over people, and is not afraid to.

Good on the fast break, although Indy didn't break very often. He's not super fast, but again, he's really explosive.

And again, his strength helps him on rebounds, as well as his long arms and leaping ability.



> But is it just me, or should a slasher have a better FG percentage? Chucker tendencies, perhaps?


Line-drive shot and getting caught in the air, forcing him to either take a bad shot, or make a bad pass.



> too bad for Kobe, you know he was gonna try and get 100 on us!!


That could make him a great fit. He was playing great defense on Kobe this year.



> he seems 1 dementional to me


Not at all. As long he doesn't have finger/hand/wrist injuries, he's good at almost everything.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

southeasy said:


> that brutal offensive comment is gross, have you seen fred jones play?


Nope - I have never watched an NBA game in my life. 

It's an opinion, based on both qualitative and quantitive analysis.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

BaLL_HoG said:


> WTF? Brutal offensive player?
> 
> The guy was a 10ppg scorer while playing 27 mins a game and taking around 600 field goal attempts last season. Now go look at our own Charlie Villanueva who was a 13 ppg scorer in more PT and about 300 more field goal attempts then Jones.
> 
> ...




1. What are you doing comparing gross FGA when one player played 68 games and the other player played 81 games and had more minutes. 

2. 3.3 pts a game extra in 2.2 minutes. Not comparable.

3. The Raptors score 7% more points then Indiana. It's not that huge a difference.

4. He does not shoot quite a bit

5. Mo-Pete shoots more per minute, hence the same FG% does not mean the same, because Jones should still get his garbage pts.

6. I am not a CharlieV lover.

7. That being said Charlie V is about 5 years younger then Jones.


I will not "reacess" (sp) anything. 

I stand by my opinion that he is a below average offensive player. I hope he proves me wrong.


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## Air Fly (Apr 19, 2005)

Man i really don't get what you guys mean by saying "He is pretty one dimensional". This is an excellent addition, dude can shoot the 3rs, his midrange is good and can get to the hole when he wants. Good defender too man.

This is really good, i'm loving it.


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## Junkyard Dog13 (Aug 9, 2003)

has he signrd yet? and for what terms?


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## Air Fly (Apr 19, 2005)

Our team is looking good so far. props to Colangelo, man been doing his job with perfection.

What a wonderful offseason.

*Probable Starters:*
T.J Ford
Parker
Moris Peterson
Chris Bosh
Nesterovic

*Bench Players:*
Calderon
Fred Jones
Graham
Humphries
Bargnani
---------
Garbajosa
PJ Tucker
Slokar


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

For the record - Fred is 6'3 1/2" with shoes on, has a 6'11" wingspan, and a 8'4" standing reach.


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## no_free_baskets (Jan 4, 2006)

trick said:


> I was a little skeptical at first but when the Anthony Parker signing is what really sold me on BC as the epitome of everything that is perfect. Along with the scoring punch of Kris Humphries and the defensive prowess of Rasho Nesterovic, how could the Raptors not contend for Atlantic Conference supremacy next year?...


are those all earth shattering moves? no not really, but be as glib as you want, unless you can prove otherwise, BC came out ahead in each n every one of those deals...if you can prove otherwise, id be glad to hear it...i have no problems saying when im wrong...

- parker looks like a strong candidate to start at a contract of 4 mil at 3 yrs...if market value for salmons is 23 mil for 5 yrs for salmons, 4 mil for 3 yrs for someone that has a strong chance of starting look like a bargain to me...

- the aruajo for humphries deal, the difference btwn the two is one has the skillset to actually stay on the floor and produce while the other cant, especially here in t.o...i rather take a chance on someone who has a shot of contributing then a guy who hasnt been able to do it for 2 yrs and probably never would here considering the situation...

- we needed someone to play 5 and defend n rebound n the raps got for the price of a redundant pf and a malcontent? what is the problem with this? his salary? dont know the avg. median of 5, but at worse, its slightly above avg for a starting centre...also important to note is the length n not the amount of salary...paying a slightly above avg. salary for 3 yrs is a much more desirable situation then paying the median salary for 5 for a plyr of similar calibre, considering the fact that the time frame that in 3 yrs time, we want to be contending, so maximizing cap space is essential, and which BC has masterfully done with freeing up 19-20 mil in salary 3yrs down the line with nesterovic, parker,jones, and garbajosa contract expiring all at the same time...

all, seemingly seem to be good moves to me...so again, fill me in on exactly what we're supposed to be critizing BC about or do you want posters to villify just for the sake of it??? doesnt seem to make much sense to me......


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## no_free_baskets (Jan 4, 2006)

JuniorNoboa said:


> Am I the only one concerned about a SG averaging only 9.6ppg in 27min..... well that in itself does not concern me.... it would usually suggest that he is a complimentary scorer that gets a few easy baskets a game...
> 
> But if he doesn't shoot much, and he gets a few easy scores, HOW THE HELL IS HE ONLY SHOOTING 41%.
> 
> ...


well a probable explination to the 9.6 ppg in 27 mins, would be the system that is played in indiana...similar to what oneil brought to the raps, its a very structured, slow it down offense, where i think carlisle calls most of the plays off the sidelines...obviously, less fg opportunity = less ppg on avg... 

also, after the brawl where half their roster was suspended, i picked this guy up in my fantasy league, and im pretty sure he was avg at least 16-18 ppg. a game while he was starting, so i wouldnt have to disagree that hes amongst the worse offensive sg. in the league. if he sucked that much, he wouldnt be able to produce those kind of numbers.


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