# Still consider that you paid a fair price for Lozza Hughes ?



## Machinehead (Jun 12, 2002)

???


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

Unless info comes out that he's one of the guys that's been dogging it or being a major biatch, I still don't have a problem with it.

From where I'm sitting, he played pretty well and pretty consistently. The Wiz were at there best this year with him running the team. After he got benched and hurt nearly simultaneously, things were never the same. I daresay that if they'd kept him in the lineup and he hadn't gotten hurt, we would have picked up another couple of games and snuck into the playoffs.

We've got him for two more years and I'd venture to say his contract is tradeable if something better comes along, so yeah, I'm cool with it.


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## BCH (Jun 25, 2002)

I think so as well. He shot a good percentage, was not a liability on defense, and had a good stretch of games when he was boarding like crazy. Collins had a lot fo good words for him earlier in the year as well, especially about his work habits. He has 2 years left on the MLE-type contact. He held up to the criticism leveled at him in the preseason that is for sure.

Now is he the answer as a PG? A lot depends on what Jeffries is going to bring, but I don't cringe at the thought of him playing that position. He is definitely worth playing at the PG/SG spots at the very least as a 6th man. As a starter at either position, I wouldn't mind either, though I probably would lean towards a more pure player in those positions ideally, with Hughes backing both of them up. Howveer, for who currently resides on the Wizards roster, I would definitely prefer him starting over Lue and Backing up Stack. If Stack moves to the SF spot, I am comfortable with him at the SG spot.

A lot of people are down on the Wizarsd recently. especially in the media. The Wizards are not going to be as bad off next season as some think, when MJ leaves, if Stack stays with the team. Adjustments should be made by the coaching staff, but the offense should definitely open up some, and the team is definitely going to run more. Hughes is going to be a part of that with the same sort of play he had this season, you would expect his numbers to increase, with the discipline he has displayed this season, moving to a scorers role, and with a faster paced mentality.


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## shroombal (Jul 17, 2002)

I think it wuz a great deal for us. If he hadn't gotten injured, i feel we would've made the playoffs. He was our third scorer, and a pretty good one. When he went down, nobody really picked up his points. MJ could only do so much, and Laettner doesn't have the game to put up 13 ppg. He could only shoot the ball...not much of a threat inside. So the defense could easily adjust. But with Hughes, you had a shooter, someone who could drive, and someone who could create his own shot. I would realy like for Hughes to have more time at the 2, and Simmons at the 3. 

And Kwame doesn't seem to have much growth in his game. He's starting to understand, but on a lot of occasions, he looks confused about what to do . And that usually ends up in him shooting an airball, or trying to post up from like 12 feet away. He just needs to pick up court awareness, but he just doesn't grasp dat concept yet. And if he's a disruption in the locker room, trade him for a star who understands the game, and can actually play.


P.S. Stackhouse should be traded to the Nuggz for Skita and a 1st...It could clear some cap room for us, and it would give the Nuggz the scorer they need. Then the Nuggz could go out and sign someone to complement Stack, like an Andre Miller. If they don't get Miller, they could grab Maggette or Odom. I doubt the Clips will be willing to retain all of them.

PG - Miller
SG - Stack
SF - White
PF - Hilario
C - Camby


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## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>shroombal</b>!
> I think it wuz a great deal for us. If he hadn't gotten injured, i feel we would've made the playoffs. He was our third scorer, and a pretty good one. When he went down, nobody really picked up his points. MJ could only do so much, and Laettner doesn't have the game to put up 13 ppg. He could only shoot the ball...not much of a threat inside. So the defense could easily adjust. But with Hughes, you had a shooter, someone who could drive, and someone who could create his own shot. I would realy like for Hughes to have more time at the 2, and Simmons at the 3.
> 
> And Kwame doesn't seem to have much growth in his game. He's starting to understand, but on a lot of occasions, he looks confused about what to do . And that usually ends up in him shooting an airball, or trying to post up from like 12 feet away. He just needs to pick up court awareness, but he just doesn't grasp dat concept yet. And if he's a disruption in the locker room, trade him for a star who understands the game, and can actually play.
> ...


Kwame a disruption in the lockeroom where did you here that. A disruption to a micro managing coach is all. And who exactly is this star he's gonna bring us in trade. 

As for Hughes I thought he played well but after roasting the young Big guys all season Collins had to find another guy to blame for the losing thus BINGO lets bench Hughes. 

Hughes I thought when the Wizards played their very best ball he was running the point. Maybe you can bring in a more nautral set-up man but if not like BCH said if JJ develop's into the playmaker you could more than live with Hughes out there. 

I still like him their better than Lue who's defensive lapses , helping off on other people's men at the wrong time cost us the playoffs. Hughes was very good guarding the pg's and he's a tremendous bargain for the Wizards.


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## shroombal (Jul 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>jazzy1</b>!
> 
> 
> Kwame a disruption in the lockeroom where did you here that. A disruption to a micro managing coach is all. And who exactly is this star he's gonna bring us in trade.
> ...


I never claimed he was a disruption. I said "IF". And dat star in return is still in question. We should just create a rouse in the league, and lift him off the untouchable list. If the right deal doesn't come along, then we keep him!


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## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

If Stack opts out, having Hughes available to slide over to the 2 and being signed for the next 2 years at $4M per will make the Wiz GM look like a genius. Even if Stack stays, it's a fine signing.


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## Shanghai Kid (Mar 7, 2003)

This was a great sign for the Wiz. Hughes has potential to be at least as good as Stackhouse. If you think about it, he can do everything Stack can do, and might be a better shooter too.

Let him be the 1rst or 2nd option, and he can put up 20 ppg.


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## MightyReds2020 (Jul 19, 2002)

Let pray Hughes will never be the starting PG again. For god sake he wasted two years trying to learn the position where he cleary uncomfortable with. He might already blossomed into, at the least, a Rip Hamilton-level player had he played the SG through and through. What a waste of a talent like him...


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## W1Z0C0Z (Jun 18, 2002)

Hughes was a good pick up this year. Next year him and Kwame will have the green light all season and be able to just do anything they want.


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## local_sportsfan (Jul 24, 2002)

LOL...LH was far from a waste at pg this season. I thought he was great, considering he played with an injury for the first month of the season. He didn't average as many assists as he could have, but he was playing under a tight leash (Collins off course).

For the MLE, LH is definitely worth it. I actually would rather replace Stack with him at sg, and trade Stack for sf.


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## MightyReds2020 (Jul 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>local_sportsfan</b>!
> LOL...LH was far from a waste at pg this season. I thought he was great, considering he played with an injury for the first month of the season. He didn't average as many assists as he could have, but he was playing under a tight leash (Collins off course).
> 
> For the MLE, LH is definitely worth it. I actually would rather replace Stack with him at sg, and trade Stack for sf.


I think you misunderstood my point. I didn't say LH is a wasted talent. I said that LH could already be a very good SG if he didn't have to play the PG last couple of years. It's like if you have the talent to be a very good basketball player and a very good football player, you still have to choose one of the sport and concerntrate on it. If you spend 5 hours per day on football and another 5 hours per day on bball, you will certainly not as good as people at your talent level but who concerntrates sorely on bball 10 hours every day. It's not a very good example but that's what I was trying to pointed out. If LH shift back to SG next year, he'll have to re-accomodate himselft to the position, and it takes time. And if he's not playing PG later in his career, don't you think last two years were a waste?


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## MightyReds2020 (Jul 19, 2002)

Of course playing PG might make him more of a knowledgeable player in terms of playing bball but that's the only benefit I can come up with.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

*??*



> The Wizards like point guard Lue, who earned $1.87 million to back up Larry Hughes, whom they signed last summer to a three-year deal for $15 million. Collins said he made a "mistake" by not starting Lue all season ahead of Hughes, *a clear indication that the latter could be moved*.


http://washingtontimes.com/sports/20030418-89489545.htm


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

Wash-T no like Larry.

A snippit...



> You especially work to get rid of Hughes, who revealed himself to be a three-time loser, counting his previous stops with Philadelphia and Golden State.
> 
> Hughes quit on the team like a dog on the West Coast trip in late March after being benched in favor of Lue. Hughes came down with a sore right ankle at that point and ended up missing eight games.
> 
> ...


If Jordan feels he cost him a playoff shot---he's headed to clipperland---or worse...

http://washingtontimes.com/sports/20030418-3440694.htm


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## Machinehead (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>W1Z0C0Z</b>!
> Hughes was a good pick up this year. Next year him and Kwame will have the green light all season and be able to just do anything they want.


And boy oh boy won't that be a treat


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## Machinehead (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mikedc</b>!
> Unless info comes out that he's one of the guys that's been dogging it or being a major biatch, I still don't have a problem with it.


See Tom Knotts Washington Times 

Excellent work GB. Excellent work


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## Machinehead (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>johnston797</b>!
> If Stack opts out, having Hughes available to slide over to the 2 and being signed for the next 2 years at $4M per will make the Wiz GM look like a genius. Even if Stack stays, it's a fine signing.


That's $5.2M per over the remaining 2 

That's like Harrington/Bender/Artest money ... all more useful to their teams

The proof is in the pudding - he was overpaid from the start and he basically isn't tradeable because of the fact that he was overpaid and his signing was rushed when there was no clear need to rush and overpay

Philly had it right with Greg Buckner money


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

Stack isn't getting the same money elsewhere.

I'd be surprised if he bolted.


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## local_sportsfan (Jul 24, 2002)

gettingbranded, who said that quote in your sig?

that had me rolling...


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>local_sportsfan</b>!
> gettingbranded, who said that quote in your sig?
> 
> that had me rolling...



The ever quotable basghetti...


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## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>F.Jerzy</b>!
> 
> 
> That's $5.2M per over the remaining 2
> ...


OT: How did Bender help the Pacers this year? He couldn't beat Mercer or even Croshure out of minutes. This is OT anyway b/c none of those 3 guys you mentioned were ever on the open market.

Well, every Wash fan on this thread said that in retrospect signing Hughes was the right thing to do. Good enough for me.

Worst case, we mark it as in incomplete and check again next season.

p.s. All the Buckner signing shows is if you don't pay much, you probably will not get much.

p.p.s. When we had discussion last summer/fall, you indicated that your mathmatical model based on game statistics indicated proper value. Well, plug in 12.8 ppg and 47% shooting. I bet your model says Larry is worth the MLE.


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## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

*last question*



> Originally posted by <b>F.Jerzy</b>!
> 
> See Tom Knotts Washington Times


So far, it doesn't appear that any of the real papers or known Wizz beat writers in DC picked up this story. Who the hell is Tom Knotts of the Washington Times?


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## Machinehead (Jun 12, 2002)

*Re: last question*



> Originally posted by <b>johnston797</b>!
> 
> 
> So far, it doesn't appear that any of the real papers or known Wizz beat writers in DC picked up this story. Who the hell is Tom Knotts of the Washington Times?


Don Knott's son 

Yeah he must be a dog working for that crap and not so venerable rag "The Washington Times'


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## Machinehead (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>johnston797</b>!
> 
> 
> OT: How did Bender help the Pacers this year? He couldn't beat Mercer or even Croshure out of minutes. This is OT anyway b/c none of those 3 guys you mentioned were ever on the open market.


That's crap 

All 3, in the decisions that they made determined their market worth which can be reliably be used for comparative purposes

You don't need more than one bid to determine a market.

In terms of Bender you may recall he went down in January and did not come back until mid March when the Pacers were trying to rediscover themselves. Mercer is not playing big minutes and given Croshere is finding a bit of form and has the playoff experience it is not surprising that he is getting the minutes as Coaches shorten the roster

On a pro rata basis Bender's and Harrington's figures bare striking resembelance to the numbers Hughes put up this season . 

But also consider that O'Neal and Miller are one of the bet rebounding duo's in the league and the lion share on shots on the Pacers go to O'Neal , Reggie and Artest followed by the productive Brad Miller. Bender averages a shot every 3.22 minutes compared to Hughes at 2.8

Bender earned around $3.2M this season though and Artest , clearly superior, earned around $2M .

Artest will earn $5.2M next year playing a major role on winning squad and Bender and Harrington will earn $5.6M a piece - but given the 7'0 and 6'9 stature of Bender and Harrington it is natural there will be a small premium for their size .... and for their upside given that they have never played big minutes and are waiting for opportunity to open up when Reggie steps down and/or if they lose Jermaine O'Neal to free agency ( I don't think )

Quite simply , Bender and to lesser extent Harrington just have not had the minutes opportunity Hughes has had ( 4 consecutive seasons playing over 30 mpg ) and not only the minutes opportunity but the "making plays" opportunity that Hughes has had . Hughes has peaked and these guys have a long way to go 

The slightly cheaper Artest ( cheaper than the two young bigs ) runs rings around Hughes in terms of impact and importance to his team 

Answer me honestly would you rather have one of Artest or Bender ... or Larry Hughes



> Well, every Wash fan on this thread said that in retrospect signing Hughes was the right thing to do. Good enough for me.


Baa Baa



> Worst case, we mark it as in incomplete and check again next season.


Sounds like an arse covering unsuredness to me 



> p.s. All the Buckner signing shows is if you don't pay much, you probably will not get much.


All this shows is that you do not understand what it shows 

Pro rated to Hughes's minutes , Buckner produces 9.5 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 2 apg ( 1.3 t/o - superior a/ t-o ratio ) and 1.5 spg - all this on also shooting 47% from the field and a superior 80% from the line. 

Granted his 3 point shooting was inferior at 28% to Hughes's 36% but neither were acquired for their 3 point shooting. Bear in mind that Hughes took a shot every 2.8 minutes of time to Buckner's 3.8 minutes ( having to be worken up when someone not named Iverson gave him the ball and told him to shoot it ) 

Fact is Hughes cost an extra $2M and beat out Greg Buckner in a head to head comparative for 3 points a game and a superior 3 point FG record which contributed nothing in terms of why they were acquired ( Hughes 79 attempts to Buckner's 55 - that's less than 1 a game for each folks ) 

So was paying an extra $2M for Lozza worth it for Philly ?

Mmmm. Lets' see....

Philly is in the playoffs with a solid contribution from Buckner this season on reasonable money and Hughes has shat in his own nest once more on a team that he didn't really do anything notable for in advancing them beyond where they were without him and at the same time has people alleging he is a puss who quit on them ( more churlish behaviour with Coaches that has seen him get torched at every stop on his journey man's career to date ) 



> p.p.s. When we had discussion last summer/fall, you indicated that your mathmatical model based on game statistics indicated proper value. Well, plug in 12.8 ppg and 47% shooting. I bet your model says Larry is worth the MLE.


I tell you what .. you can go amuse yourself and run a comparative analysis incorporating Ricky Davis, Yell, Raunchey Chauncey and Harpoon Harpring.... hell I'll even let you use Theivin George to add a lil perspective 

The results - like I said last summer . Top dollar for Lozza ?

$3M 

Me continuing to whoop your arse ? 

Priceless


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## rynobot (Oct 10, 2002)

Bender and Harrington are good, if the actually got starters minutes they'd be putting up around 18 pts and 8 boards a game.


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## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>F.Jerzy</b>!
> All 3, in the decisions that they made determined their market worth which can be reliably be used for comparative purposes
> 
> You don't need more than one bid to determine a market.


Yea, why talk to 30 buyers? Why not just limit yourself to 1?  



> Originally posted by <b>F.Jerzy</b>!
> Bender ...


Man, I wish people cut me as much slack people on these board want to cut Bender. Bottom line: 10 Pacers played in their last game. Bender got the big DNP-CD. That's a big height adjustment.



> Originally posted by <b>F.Jerzy</b>!
> Quite simply , Bender and to lesser extent Harrington just have not had the minutes opportunity Hughes has had ( 4 consecutive seasons playing over 30 mpg ) and not only the minutes opportunity but the "making plays" opportunity that Hughes has had . Hughes has peaked and these guys have a long way to go


This is pretty subjective for a last's years statistical model boy. 



> Originally posted by <b>F.Jerzy</b>!
> The slightly cheaper Artest ( cheaper than the two young bigs ) runs rings around Hughes in terms of impact and importance to his team.


Did you add the appropriate discount for "Crazy"?



> Originally posted by <b>F.Jerzy</b>!
> Answer me honestly would you rather have one of Artest or Bender ... or Larry Hughes


Again, for the last time, the Wizz did not have that choice. Neither of those 2 guys were available as FAs.



> Originally posted by <b>F.Jerzy</b>!
> Fact is Hughes cost an extra $2M and beat out Greg Buckner in a head to head comparative for 3 points a game and a superior 3 point FG record...


Even after pro-rating Buckner's numbers, LH shoots better, scores 30% more, and doles out 50% more assists. If that aint worth an extra $2M a year, it's gotta be close.



> Originally posted by <b>F.Jerzy</b>!
> I tell you what .. you can go amuse yourself and run a comparative analysis incorporating Ricky Davis, Yell, Raunchey Chauncey and Harpoon Harpring.... hell I'll even let you use Theivin George to add a lil perspective


Given that you were so fond of it last year, I'll let you crank up the analysis machine, mate. Speaking of amusing yourself, clearly that's your main purpose so I am out of here. ta. ta. :yes:


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## local_sportsfan (Jul 24, 2002)

F. Jerzy...after you numerous posts, you still fail to make a valid point. 

Sure, most Wiz fans would rather have Artest, Davis, and probably Harrington or Bender (because they fill a void, not because they are any better), but that has nothing to do with whether LH is worth the MLE. Preference and worth are two different things alltogether...I would _prefer_ Ben Wallace or Wally Sczerbiak over any of the guys you mentioned (and they make the MLE)...does that make the guys you mentioned less deserving of their contract? 

Youre point is also off because none of those guys were available...LH was. And according to most Wiz fans, they are satisfied with the signing. Im not too sure sure why you aren't...hell I dont know why you even care. 

I mean not all players making the MLE can be as talented as Eddie Robinson and Donyell Marshall, but I guess thats something Wiz fans are just going to have to deal with.


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## local_sportsfan (Jul 24, 2002)

And that article in the Times (and yes the times is second rate) is a joke. Knotts basically accuses LH of faking an injury, without proof, hoping to get more chumps to read his drivel.

Good job Knotts...you succeeded.


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## Machinehead (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>local_sportsfan</b>!
> F. Jerzy...after you numerous posts, you still fail to make a valid point.
> 
> Youre point is also off because none of those guys were available...LH was. And according to most Wiz fans, they are satisfied with the signing. Im not too sure sure why you aren't...hell I dont know why you even care.


Actually Davis was available and so too Artest and Bender- the latter two _ chose _ to stay put and take the $5.2M and $5.68M respectively they will be paid next season thus representing their market value 


You and your locked in denial cohorts that perpetuate this "satisfaction" in cost to signing value proposition of Lozza is akin to tourists in a Bangkok bazaar that need to convince themselves that the bling bling they just forked out the farm for is the real article and genuine without the remotest contemplation of the possibility that you got fleeced and done up the date.

I continue the dialogue because its hilarious and I get a kick out of it 



> Sure, most Wiz fans would rather have Artest, Davis, and probably Harrington or Bender (because they fill a void, not because they are any better), but that has nothing to do with whether LH is worth the MLE. Preference and worth are two different things alltogether...I would _prefer_ Ben Wallace or Wally Sczerbiak over any of the guys you mentioned (and they make the MLE)...does that make the guys you mentioned less deserving of their contract?


Actually Wally and Ben make more than the MLE . Wally will make $8M next year and Ben close to $6M 

Also .. go see Troy Hudson and the Wolves paid for him .. 

This is truly hilarious


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## local_sportsfan (Jul 24, 2002)

Well, if you get a kick out of arguing with people (and I say people because you even managed to gripe with a Bulls fan on the subject) over Larry Hughes not being worth the MLE, then I  Do not make it in any way personal - BCH 
Oh well...I just find it odd that you choose to continue an argument that you already lost.


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## Machinehead (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>local_sportsfan</b>!
> And that article in the Times (and yes the times is second rate) is a joke. Knotts basically accuses LH of faking an injury, without proof, hoping to get more chumps to read his drivel.
> 
> Good job Knotts...you succeeded.


Yes.... the truth is inconvenient isn't it ?


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## Machinehead (Jun 12, 2002)

Uncalled for, even with the vague personal mention made by lsf - BCH


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## Machinehead (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>johnston797</b>!
> 
> 
> Yea, why talk to 30 buyers? Why not just limit yourself to 1?


Well that was their decision I guess you would have to ask them but an offer was made and they accepted - I guess that's how a market is formed

Maybe they realised they were in a good situation where they could win and did not want to go to a dud just to take the money where they may have earnt more. But that's speculation.







> This is pretty subjective for a last's years statistical model boy.
> 
> 
> 
> Did you add the appropriate discount for "Crazy"?


You call me out on subjectivity and follow up with a subjective criteria of "craziness"

LOL





> Again, for the last time, the Wizz did not have that choice. Neither of those 2 guys were available as FAs.


On the open market? No - I agree but their worth was determined in the same time line . So the currency of data applies.





> Even after pro-rating Buckner's numbers, LH shoots better, scores 30% more, and doles out 50% more assists. If that aint worth an extra $2M a year, it's gotta be close.


Tisk Tisk. Loz does not shoot better . Don't make things up to convince yourself in your argument 

30% more ?? LOL LOL LOL Mmmmmm. 30% sounds better than 3 points a game. Considering the lowness of the base that's pretty funny.

50% more assists? Double LOL . 3.7 over 2 - and Loz is the PG + he has an inferior assist to turnover ratio to boot

And you say its still worth an extra $2M a year. 

Man you gotta be Santa Claus .. or Scott Layden....





> Given that you were so fond of it last year, I'll let you crank up the analysis machine, mate.


No need to - the proof on the surface is clear. Your return serve in this regard is a cowardly way out when you know what the numbers will tell you



> Speaking of amusing yourself, clearly that's your main purpose so I am out of here. ta. ta. :yes:




:laugh:


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## BCH (Jun 25, 2002)

I removed some of the personal jibes. I probably missed some. Everyone needs to relax a little bit with going for the person rather than the context.

I understand that it is hard to separate a personal worth scale from the person but please try.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>F.Jerzy</b>!
> 
> 
> Actually Davis was available and so too Artest and Bender- the latter two _ chose _ to stay put and take the $5.2M and $5.68M respectively they will be paid next season thus representing their market value


That's at best a pretty big misrepresentation. Davis, Artest and Bender weren't UFAs. In the case of the UFAs, offer the MLE and their teams would have matched them. In the case of the guys who were still on contracts, I don't see how they were available at all. Put either of them on the market as UFAs and Davis and Artest certainly would command more than the MLE. Their current teams got them at a discount due to the CBA. Further, they're both making more than Hughes, if not by a lot. Even if they're better players (I actually have cranked up the stat machine on Bender and I'm not too impressed with what I see), it's still a non-sequitor of an argument... the 100% equivalent of cherry-picking through every draft and complaining that <insert your GM of choice> chose player X over player Y. A year into the the deal no less. 

Until it's clear how things play out, it's a bit rash to complain about chosing Brad Daugherty over Len Bias


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>local_sportsfan</b>!
> And that article ... hoping to *get more chumps* to read his drivel.
> 
> Good job Knotts...you succeeded.


Why bother writing that after I asked everyone to stop? -BCH


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## alchemist (Apr 11, 2003)

Wow, this thread is on fire. I think we can agree that Hughes is talented- either coming off the bench or starting, at the point or 2- he can be a contributor. Remember, he is only 23.


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## FJ_of _Rockaway (May 28, 2002)

Mmmmmm.... let's see

Larry Brown thought he was a royal pain in the butt and found him disruptive 

Jerry Krause passed him over in what ultimately parlayed into Jamal Crawford

Dave Cowens benched him last season seemingly because of "issues" and went with Gilbert Arenas

And now rumblings about problems with the Coaching staff in Washington ..... but Doug Collins does not have control of his young blokes anyway so its a two way street

Anyone see a pattern here ?

Did anyone in the Wiz front office detect a pattern before they contemplated Loz being grossly overpaid at $5.25M per for the next two years ??

Only 23 my arse.

He has had 4 campaigns playing over 30 mpg in a role that has required him to contribute as a frontliner and he has not delivered. He may have delivered some mediocre stats but the proof is irrefutable .. he is not a frontliner.. He is a role playing dime a dozen guard that get picked up between $1M to $3M 

Who wants to pay a guy $5.2M per for the next 2 years when you are going nowhere with him and he has no likely capacity to make your team better then the late lotto team it is 

Fact is .. Hughes is just not tradeable because his contract was irresponsibly offered and gleefully accepted in the first place 

In terms of who would be interested in taking Hughes .. its hard to gauge but at a guess I could not see most GM's be willing to wear an exposure on their book past $2M to $2.5M with the Wiz likely needing to dump in a 2nd round pick to try and entice someone to take him 

And that's much less than half of what he will be paid next year

Poor poor signing 

* A recipe for repair - time to gut this team like a pig *

Renounce all free agents

Hughes and Jahidi for Eddie Jones may be a way for you to escape the misery ... and hope like crap that someone throws more money at Stack than what you will pay him.. but like that's not going to happen so let's assume Stack picks up his option

Stack and L8'ner for Sprewell and Knicks 2nd round pick 

Brendan Hayward and Bryon Russell for Shane Battier

Trade the #10 pick down with Atlanta at #21 in exchange for Nazr Mohammed ( should just have enough cap room to pull it off to absorb the approximate $4.5M salary differential that Mohammed will create ) 

At #21 draft Brazilian point guard Leandrinho Barbosa

Try and resign Tyrone Lue after you renounce him for minimum. If you miss him you might pick up an Erick Strickland type who is already playing for that money in Indiana - I'm sure the MJ factor could sway him - but then again maybe not 

Sign another vet point guard for the minimum- someone like Anthony Johnson or Bimbo Coles to round out the roster of 13

2nd round picks ?

Take a punt on James Lang with New York's . He fills Jahidi's space... literally

And for your own 2nd round pick I like a pure shooter like Luke Walton 

So that leave's the Wizards looking like 

*

Mohammed
Brown
Sprewell
Jones
Barbosa

bench

Pussie Thomas
Jared Jeffries
Shane Battier
Juan Dixon
Ty Lue

IR

James Lang
Luke Walton 
Bimbo Coles

*

_ The Miami trade _

Riley gets a genuine big bodied banger in Jahidi that allows BG to play his more natural PF and he gets a combo guard with some defensive skill in Hughes - and whilst Hughes is overpaid at least he and Jahidi provide quicker salary relief than Jones

But Jones is the classy selfless pro that you need at the 2 over time who can keep the ship steady as Brown and Jeffries - and possibly Barbosa develop

_ The New York trade _

Its L Tax friendly for New York as they save around $6M a year (the salary diff + a dollar for dollar penalty ) and they shore up the PF spot with L8'ner aloowing KT to play Center again - with McDyess going down New York would not want to play Spoon big minutes at PF. Harrington and Spoon back Thomas and L8'ner respectively.. with Doleac thr 3rd wheel in the back up rotation.

New York lose none of the slashing scoring zip / energy that Spree brings in Stack

_ The Memphis trade _

The Grizz need a big body in the middle and Stro is too small to play big minutes at Center. Hayward is their big body to plug the lane and to let Stro and Pau do their thing . They get an older Shane Battier in Bryon Russel for a year before his contract runs out.

_ Trading down with Atlanta _

Atlanta need anything that will help them and wihout a lottery pick of their own if they take Washington's 10 they just might get lucky and get local yokel Jarvis Hayes or Dwayne Wade - both of whom could help them a lot 

* Bottom line is : Spree, EJ , Battman and Nazr make you competitive while your key young talent - Brown, JJ and Barbosa develop *


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## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>FJ_of _Rockaway</b>!
> Dave Cowens benched him last season seemingly because of "issues" and went with Gilbert Arenas


Sounds convincing, but fiction.

Cowens always played Hughes b/c he thought that it could be good for the team *if Hughes learned how to play PG * b/c that could get the best 5 players on the court. 

Collins got fired and later in the season Winters, the interm, decided to give all of Hughes minutes to Arenas b/c he was the closest thing he had to a "pure" PG. Winters was trying, in vain, to win enough games to keep his job.



> Originally posted by <b>FJ_of _Rockaway</b>!
> Anyone see a pattern here ?


Yes, a poster that hammers anyone and everyone with just the right mix of facts, selected rumors and out and out fiction appears to always be on the winning side of every argument. Except to those of us paying close attention.


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## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>FJ_of _Rockaway</b>!
> Did anyone in the Wiz front office detect a pattern before they contemplated Loz being grossly overpaid at $5.25M per for the next two years ??


The Wiz sure got their money's worth last night. :yes:


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## CP26 (May 8, 2003)

Hughes is very underpaid for a young and talented athlete.


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## NorthEast Wiz (Jul 16, 2002)

I would not go so far as to call Hughes underpaid. I think he makes about the right number based on his ability


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## Natty Dreadlockz (Jul 21, 2003)

Considerin what some cat's make in the league as compared to what they provide I think Hughes is paid based on his ability... He'll play big in the absence of Stack... Peace


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## MJG (Jun 29, 2003)

I definitely wouldn't call Hughes underpaid, and I definitely wouldn't call him underpaid either. I think he's one of the guys in the league making more or less exactly what he should be making.


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## local_sportsfan (Jul 24, 2002)

Obviously, he isn't a #1 option. And he isn't being paid to be one.

When Stack comes back, you'll see his numbers improve. Especially the shooting percentage.


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## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>F.Jerzy</b>!
> 
> Philly had it right with Greg Buckner money



http://www.courierpostonline.com/news/sports/s080804g.htm



> King would love to find a way to unload Buckner, who is owed $13 million over the next four years.


Looks like Philly had it wrong. And length of contract is an important component to judging a good signing.

Hughes is more valuable plus he is an ending contract.

==============================
EDIT:

http://www.philly.com/mld/dailynews/sports/9615390.htm



> Sixers
> 
> By PHIL JASNER
> 
> ...


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