# Article Steph: I'm the Best



## BigC (Sep 28, 2004)

STEPH: I'M THE BEST 

By MARC BERMAN 
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January 1, 2005 -- Stephon Marbury's game is soaring, as is his confidence. In adding another spark to the Nets-Knicks rivalry while risking lighting a fire under Jason Kidd, Marbury said yesterday he believes he's the best point guard in the NBA. 
With Kidd and Vince Carter invading the Garden tonight, the first of the New Year, Marbury was asked the same old comparison questions about Kidd. Usually he brushes them off. But on New Year's Eve, Marbury celebrated with a boast, not a toast. 

"Don't get me wrong, I love Jason Kidd, he is a great point guard," Marbury said. "[But] how am I comparing myself to him when I think I'm the best point guard to play basketball? That makes no sense. I can't compare myself to somebody when I already think I'm the best. " 

"I'm telling you what it is. I know I'm the best point guard in the NBA. I don't need nobody else to tell me that. When I go on the basketball court, if I start to think about what you all think, I'll lose my mind. You should've asked me, 'Are you the best point guard in the NBA, then?' and I'll tell you, 'Yeah.' " 

Marbury's braggadocio comes at a time when he has led the Knicks to the top of the Atlantic Division at 16-13 while the Nets are down, trying to adjust on the fly to Carter. Tonight's showdown will be a fascinating one, as Carter flies into the Garden for the first time since Rod Thorn beat out Isiah Thomas in the Carter sweepstakes. The Nets are 1-2 with Carter. The Knicks, meanwhile, have won three straight and try to reach four games above .500 for the first time since 2001. 

"It's a lot for the fans, for the media," Allan Houston said. "It is a cross-town matchup that makes it more interesting. But we're three games over .500 and trying to expand, that's what our focus is on." 

The Marbury-Kidd rivalry will be there forever. They were swapped for each other three seasons ago, Kidd coming to Jersey, Marbury to Phoenix. The Nets soared to two straight Finals. 

Marbury has the physical tools to be the best PG in the game. He has strength and quickness that lead to furious penetrations, and shoots remarkably well from the perimeter. But he still must prove he has the heart to lead a team to wins in the playoffs as Kidd has. 

At 27, Marbury is four years younger than Kidd, who's returning from microfracture surgery. At this moment, no one is playing the point better than Marbury, except for perhaps Steve Nash of Phoenix and Dwyane Wade of Miami. 

When the topic was broached with Marbury yesterday, prefaced with, "I know you don't like comparison questions," he retorted, "Who says I don't like them? Jason Kidd and me are two different players. It's not the same thing. You can't compare both of us. We play nothing alike. We play totally different. A lot of people play the same position. You may feel he's better. Another person may feel different." 



The Knicks' coaching staff is delighted Marbury is playing as ferociously on both ends. He was in a defensive stupor until recently, getting chastised in a private talk with Isiah Thomas. Marbury knows he had not given the same energy defensively because he expends so much on offense. 

"The whole staff has chastised him, not just one person," Lenny Wilkens said. "We encouraged and got after him. If you can take the challenge of a Steve Francis [Monday in Orlando], you can take the challenge of any guy. It will certainly take a toll. You've got to trust I can get you some rest and know where to rest you." 

Meanwhile, Marbury is well behind in All-Star balloting, fifth among Eastern point guards, behind Allen Iverson, Wade, Kidd and Francis. 

"I don't care about that," Marbury said. "It doesn't matter to me. When I was younger playing an All-Star Game, it was a big thing. As long as I'm playing come April for the championship."


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

We'll see how well Steph does tonite against Kidd, this Nets-Knicks game will be very interesting


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## Charlie Brown (Oct 22, 2002)

Steph has to win a playoff series before he is #1. :grinning:

Good luck tonight btw. It should be an enteraining game.


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## The True Essence (May 26, 2003)

you have to win a playoff series? Ok good, cause if im not mistaken, Kidd hadnt won a playoff series til he was 30. Marbury still has time to catch up.


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## Charlie Brown (Oct 22, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>PennyHardaway</b>!
> you have to win a playoff series? Ok good, cause if im not mistaken, Kidd hadnt won a playoff series til he was 30. Marbury still has time to catch up.


I've always been a Marbury fan and said he has the potential to be better than Kidd. He just has not reached that point yet.


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## BigC (Sep 28, 2004)

If Marbury starts playing hard every night and does well in the playoffs he will be the best. Tonight he really has to back up what he has said.

As far as Jefferson he needs to keep his mouth closed. He is not even top 10 sf in the league.


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## wilon_1 (Jul 25, 2002)

At one point this may have been true, but Starbury has caught up and passed JKidd as a point guard. Steph can do all JKidd can but better..If all it takes is to win a series, then are u saying Charlie Ward is as good a player as Kidd? Knicks won many playoff series with Charlie...Playoff series won have nothing to do with anything, in NJ it would not have happened with out KMart, not JKidd...Other than Shaq and KG, there is not one player than can run a team by themselves, even they really can't..Can't blame one player for the team's shortcomings..MJ didn't do it alone either...


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## The True Essence (May 26, 2003)

but kidd is 20 times better on the break. steph goes brain dead on the break.

but steph is the best half court point guard, and most talented point guard in the nba


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## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

It's really hard to say, some of this is so conceptual. One way I try to look at it is to imagine if the PGs switched teams, how would each team perform. Both times this happened for Marbury he came out the loser.

I happen to think guys like a healthy Kidd and Nash could bring things out in TT, JYD, Ariza, Nazr, Crawford, etc that Marbury doesn't, while still being able to pick and roll with KT. But you just don't know how a guy will perform at breakneck speed until you see it. 

Shandon is an example of this (and please, lets not go into "Shandon is the worst player in the NBA" mode). They guy had enough speed and athleticism to assume he'd be good on the break, and it was his better suit, but he couldn't finish. Can TT, Crawford and Narz? I don't know. The only guys I really trust on the break are Ariza, JYD, and Marbury as a finisher. The problem is most guys can't pass back and forth on the break, they push or finish but can't make decisions on the fly.

I happen to see Ariza as a good candidate to be groomed as a point forward. He probably has the best court vision on the team, good enough handle, and can think on the fly.

On the other side of the coin, I'm quite certain that Marbury would take 10 points off the Suns average. One of the reason Kidd's and Nash's teams score so many points is the uptempo game gives your team more shot attempts per 48 mins than the walk up game. Marbury simply can't operate efficiently at that speed, if at all. Individual point and open looks for teammates (lets quantify them as assist) are one measure of effectiveness, but team points and offensive "flow" are another, and Marbury can't match those uptempo guys. 

When Nash was with Dallas you could say, sure they're gonna score a lot of points with "shooters" like Dirk and Finely. But then he takes his show to Phoenix and wins with "athletes" like Marion, and Amare. He can get various types of players to play well and within an offense, and most any team could expect to improve with him at the helm.

OTOH, GMs are still trying to figure out what sort of team to assemble around Marbury.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Kidd won a playoff series for the first time in 2000, but that year Duncan missed the playoffs with a bad ankle, so San Antonio was short handed.


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## jmk (Jun 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Big C #1</b>!
> As far as Jefferson he needs to keep his mouth closed. He is not even top 10 sf in the league.


Oh yea? Let's hear the top 10, then, Mr. Double Standard.


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## BigC (Sep 28, 2004)

Better than Jefferson in no particular order!

1. Lebron
2. Artest 
3. Peja
4. Ak 47
5. Shawn Marion
6. Antawn Jamison
7. Rashard Lewis
8. Vince Carter sg/sf
9. Odom sf/pf
10. Paul Pierce sg/sf
11 Grant Hill
12. Carmelo Anthony 
13. maybe Shareef Abdur-Rahim 
14. Maybe Corey Maggette


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## jmk (Jun 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Big C #1</b>!
> Better than Jefferson in no particular order!
> 
> 1. Lebron
> ...


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## The True Essence (May 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jmk</b>!Originally posted by Big C #1!
> Better than Jefferson in no particular order!
> 
> 1. Lebron
> ...


lol......

Jefferson is better then Paul Pierce? i would understand if you said NO to abdur rahim and carmelo anthony....but your pushing it.

You have to be playing to be better? So why is Kidd a top 5 guard? hes playing like ***. 

and come on, Marion is a natural SF. did you ever hear of playing out of position?

how overrated are you gonna make jefferson? Hes doing this all on a 10-18 team. Stephen Jackson did the same thing last year. Jefferson is the third option at best on a good team


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## jmk (Jun 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>PennyHardaway</b>!
> 
> 
> lol......
> ...


Believe me, I know how good Pierce is.He *always* kills the Nets, but his game has slipped the last couple of seasons.

Kidd's averaging a triple double per 48 minutes. If that's playing like ****, then he _must_ be a top 5 guard. Anyways, it was more a point that Artest is a liability to his team.

Marion is playing the 4, therefore that's what he should be listed at.

The statement that RJ is not a top 10 SF not only has no backup, it's completely idiotic, as well.


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## The True Essence (May 26, 2003)

i bet mike sweetney is averaging a double double per 48 too. My god i guess hes a top ten nba forward. Kidds minutes have been limited, and per 48 doesnt factor in fatigue. 

If you really believe RJ is better then Paul Pierce....then thats nice....but i dont even think Rashidi can back you up with any of his rediculous stats on that one


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## jmk (Jun 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>PennyHardaway</b>!
> i bet mike sweetney is averaging a double double per 48 too. My god i guess hes a top ten nba forward. Kidds minutes have been limited, and per 48 doesnt factor in fatigue.
> 
> If you really believe RJ is better then Paul Pierce....then thats nice....but i dont even think Rashidi can back you up with any of his rediculous stats on that one


But Sweetney hasn't proven anything, so your ludicrous argument holds no ground. Kidd has proven year after year that he's the best point guard in the league.

Ridiculous stats? Check out their stats this year, if you want to look at statistics. RJ's are better.


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## The True Essence (May 26, 2003)

so that stephen jackson guy should be an elite player according to your argument. Jefferson hasnt proven crap either. the only time hes played well on a winning team he wasnt the star. After Kidd it was Martin, then Jefferson. If you replace jefferson with pierce in the finals against the spurs, you win the title.


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## jmk (Jun 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>PennyHardaway</b>!
> so that stephen jackson guy should be an elite player according to your argument. Jefferson hasnt proven crap either. the only time hes played well on a winning team he wasnt the star. After Kidd it was Martin, then Jefferson. If you replace jefferson with pierce in the finals against the spurs, you win the title.


You have to be the most illogical poster on this board. How in the hell does Stephen Jackson get injected into this debate? I'd really like to hear this.

Second, Jefferson has proven himself. Being that you're a typical Knicks fan, you're probably too blind to see that. 

With the Kidd/RJ/Martin Nets, there was no first option. It was a complete team game. Last year martin averaged 13.8 shots per game. RJ had 13.6. How this argues into the argument of how good Jefferson is, though, is beyond me.

How about presenting an actual argument instead of including random thoughts that have literally nothing to do with what we're talking about.


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## The True Essence (May 26, 2003)

Jefferson put up his numbers on a 10-18 team. Stephen Jackson put up similar numbers on the hawks last year. But back to reality for Jackson when he went back to Indiana. thats why i brought him up. 

Typical Knicks fan? What fan of ANY TEAM would say Jefferson is better then Pierce? This is the most rediculous argument ive seen on BBB.net, that was actually serious.

i brought up martin and Kidd because that was back when Jefferson wasnt the only guy, and when the nets were, you know, good. Jerry Stackhouse put up 30 a game on a bad pistons team, now hes a bench player. Larry Hughes put up 27 a game on the warriors, now hes a 16 ppg scorer as the third option on a .500 wizards team. Jefferson is putting these numbers up on the second worst team in the worst division in the HISTORY of the nba.


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## jmk (Jun 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>PennyHardaway</b>!
> Jefferson put up his numbers on a 10-18 team. Stephen Jackson put up similar numbers on the hawks last year. But back to reality for Jackson when he went back to Indiana. thats why i brought him up.


Irrelevant. Those are two completely different situations. Would you say it's easy for RJ to put up his numbers while being double and triple teamed the the majority of the game? If so, then "that's nice."



> Typical Knicks fan? What fan of ANY TEAM would say Jefferson is better then Pierce? This is the most rediculous argument ive seen on BBB.net, that was actually serious.


Again, you have trouble reading English. I wasn't even talking about Pierce, here. You said RJ hasn't proven anything. In that, you are a typical Knicks fan. 



> i brought up martin and Kidd because that was back when Jefferson wasnt the only guy, and when the nets were, you know, good. Jerry Stackhouse put up 30 a game on a bad pistons team, now hes a bench player. Larry Hughes put up 27 a game on the warriors, now hes a 16 ppg scorer as the third option on a .500 wizards team. Jefferson is putting these numbers up on the second worst team in the worst division in the HISTORY of the nba.


You're going to tell me RJ didn't play good last year? You are proving your ocmplete lack of common sense and perception in ever subsequent post.


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## The True Essence (May 26, 2003)

he played good, but not PAUL PIERCE i proved im a star player good.

and its not irrelevant. the situation is the same. the hawks sucked, the nets sucked. Who else besides Jackson could score on their team? Why is Jefferson only being doubled and not Jackson? What Jefferson did on a good team is what he is. Not what he does on a garbage team. His numbers will go down as Vince becomes the primary scorer, unless he breaks down again


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

> "Don't get me wrong, I love Jason Kidd, he is a great point guard," Marbury said. "[But] how am I comparing myself to him when I think I'm the best point guard to play basketball? That makes no sense. I can't compare myself to somebody when I already think I'm the best. "


Jason Kidd
*Years Pro: 11*
Rookie of the Year: 1 (94-95)
*All-Star selections: 7 (4 starts)
All-NBA First Team: 5
All-NBA Second Team: 1
All-NBA Third Team: 1
All-Defense First Team: 3
All-Defense Second Team: 3
Assist Titles: 5*
Playoff Experience: NBA Finals 2x, Second Round 2x, First Round 4x (73 games)

Stephon Marbury
*Years Pro: 9
All-Star selections: 2 (00-01, 02-03)
All-NBA Third Team: 1 (02-03)*
Playoff Experience: First Round 4x (18 games)

Baron Davis
Years Pro: 6
*All-Star selections: 2 (01-02, 03-04)
All-NBA Third Team: 1 (03-04)*
Playoff Experience: Second Round 2x, First Round 2x (28 games)

Steve Nash
Years Pro: 9
*All-Star selections: 2 (01-02, 02-03)
All-NBA Third Team: 2 (01-02, 02-03)*
Playoff Experience: Conference Finals 1x, Second Round 2x, First Round 2x (46 games)

Sam Cassell
Years Pro: 12
*All-Star selections: 1 (03-04)
All-NBA Second Team: 1 (03-04)*
Playoff Experience: NBA Finals 2x, Conference Finals 2x, Second Round 1x, First Round 4x (2 rings, 103 games)

Yeah, Marbury sure is the best. That explains why he made the all-nba first team so many times. Because last time I checked, that's the team with the best. Kidd has made that team 5 out of the last 6 years, and the one time he didn't make it was 02-03 when McGrady and Kobe were on the 1st team.

Kidd is coming off an injury, and NOW people are going to debate this. It's like comparing Scottie Pippen to Larry Bird after Bird's injury.

Kidd is one of the 5 best PGs of all-time, the best one to never be MVP (he was 2nd in 01-02, let me know when Marbury is even top 10 in the voting).



> At one point this may have been true, but Starbury has caught up and passed JKidd as a point guard. Steph can do all JKidd can but better..


Really? Cause last I checked, Kidd was still a better passer, still has better court vision, still a better rebounder, still a better defender, and still has a far better basketball IQ.



> in NJ it would not have happened with out KMart, not JKidd...Other than Shaq and KG, there is not one player than can run a team by themselves, even they really can't..Can't blame one player for the team's shortcomings..MJ didn't do it alone either...


LOL, Kenyon Martin is a borderline all-star, but he is the key to Jersey's playoff success?

Shaq, KG, and MJ are superstars. Why? They make their teammates better. Kidd makes his teammates better. Hell, just look at his rookie year in Dallas. Meanwhile, it's been 9 years, and we still don't know if Marbury makes his teammates better or not. He puts up big numbers, in fact, big assist numbers, but despite that its still arguable whether or not he makes his teammates better. That should tell you something when a guys averaging 8 assists for his career and its up for debate.

If the Nets didn't have K-Mart they would have went with Aaron Williams/KVH at PF and KVH/RJ at SF, with Jason Collins playing more mins at C (due to Aaron playing more PF).



> Better than Jefferson in no particular order!
> 
> 1. Lebron
> 2. Artest
> ...


Hmm, looks like this triplet is easy prey.

You have Jamison as the 6th best SF? LMAO. He doesn't play any defense, and he's more of a PF anyway. He hasn't played SF in like 3 years. The fact that you have Jamison ahead of Paul Pierce says more than enough about the credibility of this list. The fact that you have Reef, a guy who plays much better at PF, ahead of RJ says a lot too. And Grant Hill? Maybe like 5 years ago. Hill isn't nearly as explosive or athletic as RJ is today. He's a better mid-range shooter, but RJ is defintely the better inside player, better defender and better rebounder.

1. AK47
2. Pierce
3. Artest
4. Lebron
5. Peja
6. Melo
7. Jefferson
8. Lewis
9. Hill
10. Walker

Notice how Marion is not on my list? Because he's playing PF this year. Garnett can play SF too. In fact he can play any position. But you'll only find him on my PF list. Same with Odom. He hasn't played SF in years. Carter is only listed at F on the all-star ballot, to ensure he gets voted in every year. No way he would have make it over McGrady, Iverson, etc every year. Maggette is also playing SG this year, and he did last year too if I'm not mistaken. Q-Rich was the SF. Either that, or Q-Rich was moving Maggette to SF. Regardless, I'd still put him behind Jefferson, probably around 9th.



> i bet mike sweetney is averaging a double double per 48 too. My god i guess hes a top ten nba forward. Kidds minutes have been limited, and per 48 doesnt factor in fatigue.


Why is it that when I dismiss per 48, everybody screams at me?



> Ridiculous stats? Check out their stats this year, if you want to look at statistics. RJ's are better.


JMK he was JK.

No duh Jefferson's stats are "better". Jefferson is playing 42 minutes per game. Pierce is playing 36.

Jefferson's FG% was below .400 with Kidd out. Since Kidd's returned, his season FG% is at .433 (hmm, this couldn't possibly be an instance of Kidd making teammates better, could it?) Jefferson also was getting like 4.5 to's per game with Kidd out. He can't handle the ball or the defensive pressure like Pierce can. Pierce last year averaged 3.8. With Payton handling the ball, he's down to 2.9.



> Jefferson put up his numbers on a 10-18 team. Stephen Jackson put up similar numbers on the hawks last year. But back to reality for Jackson when he went back to Indiana. thats why i brought him up.


Jackson didn't average 24 ppg on Atlanta. He didn't even average 20. And I also doubt he drew double coverage the entire time he was there. It helps that he had Jason Terry. RJ had Travis Best, Jacque Vaughn, and Zoran Planinic. 



> Larry Hughes put up 27 a game on the warriors, now hes a 16 ppg scorer as the third option on a .500 wizards team.


Maybe you're confusing him with Sprewell. Hughes averaged 22 in 32 games for Golden State, and then followed that up with 16 and 12. He's averaging 20.1 ppg as the third option in Washington. The Wizards are also a bit more than .500, seeing as how they have the same record as the Knicks. Four of their losses have come against the Heat, who the Knicks haven't even played yet.


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

> What Jefferson did on a good team is what he is. Not what he does on a garbage team. His numbers will go down as Vince becomes the primary scorer, unless he breaks down again


Ahem. What happened the last time Kidd had two borderline all-stars playing on the wing?

Oh, that's right. Mashburn and Jackson combined to average 50 ppg.


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## BigC (Sep 28, 2004)

Rashdi you said



> Hmm, looks like this triplet is easy prey.
> 
> You have Jamison as the 6th best SF? LMAO. He doesn't play any defense, and he's more of a PF anyway. He hasn't played SF in like 3 years. The fact that you have Jamison ahead of Paul Pierce says more than enough about the credibility of this list. The fact that you have Reef, a guy who plays much better at PF, ahead of RJ says a lot too. And Grant Hill? Maybe like 5 years ago. Hill isn't nearly as explosive or athletic as RJ is today. He's a better mid-range shooter, but RJ is defintely the better inside player, better defender and better rebounder.
> 
> ...


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## The True Essence (May 26, 2003)

and the mavs won 39 games.


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

> and the mavs won 39 games.


36. Which was a 23 game improvement over the previous year.

Tarpley: 1.1 apg
Jones: 2.0 apg
Mashburn: 3.7 apg
Jackson: 3.7 apg
Kidd: 7.7 apg

Don't forget that 36 wins gets you the playoffs in the east.

The Nets and Knicks are now both 9-9 vs the East. Of course, that means the Nets are 2-9 vs the West. Who else can't wait for the Knicks to play the Suns, Sonics, Kings, or Lakers?


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