# Kobe On My Mind



## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

Over the past couple of weeks, I have been indescribably busy which explains my recent absence from the board. Luckily, I still have been able to keep up with some basketball rumors and news during that time. Perhaps the biggest bit of news that has stuck out to me is the Kevin Garnett trade. My first impressions of it as a Knick fan was, "lottery" for borderline playoff teams like ours. As presently constructed, I believe we still have enough to make the playoffs but not likely to do very much with the opportunity if we do. There is still one trade out there, however, that I feel we can make that would put us into a better position than the Celtics. That trade would be for Kobe Bryant. Here is what I would do:

*Knicks Trade:*
Zach Randolph...PF
David Lee...F
Quentin Richardson...SG
Jamal Crawford...SF
Demetris Nichols...G/F
Malik Rose...PF
2 first round picks

*Knicks Recieve (from Lakers):*
Kobe Bryant...SG
Lamar Odom...PF
Derek Fisher...G
Vladimir Radmanovic...F

The way I see it is that any deal that loses Kobe Bryant is one where you get the shorter end of the stick. I feel though that in the aftermath of a trade like this that the Lakers fair pretty well considering the caliber player they are giving up. Like what someone mentioned earlier on ESPN, in the west, you need more of a team to win rather than an individual player. The Lakers accomplish this without a doubt by adding 5 potential starters of whom 4 will definately start for them. 

They lose Odom but Odom certainly is not the kind of player that can carry a team so much as he can help grease the motor of it. The Lakers have shown no qualm losing Odom offering him in such deals for Channing Frye, Kevin Garnett, Jermaine O'neal, etc. In some sense they accomplish the task of landing a similar kind of player in a trade through Zach Randolph who certainly can be the offensive backbone of a team. Zach has the added benefit of being younger at 25 and locked into a contract that is fairly reasonably for a player who can go out and get you 20 and 10. Losing no other notable starters in the deal, I think the Lakers would be sitting pretty shedding Radmanovic's contract in place of a more economicable one with Malik Rose and adding a healthy Quentin Richardson who is a quasi all-star when healthy; let's not forget David Lee who is a double double machine.

I know Derek Fisher had shown interest in the Knicks before signing with the Lakers, so I believe he'd support the move especially with his best friend Kobe, leaving the team. I think this all has a chance especially considering what Garnett was moved for.

*Knicks Trade (to the Pacers):*
Dan Dickau...PG
Fred Jones...SG
$500,000 cash

*Knicks Recieve (from the Pacers):*
Jeff Foster...C

I remember the year before last hearing about rumors regarding the Pacers desire to gain greater cap flexibility and do so by moving Jeff Foster for expiring contracts. Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you the oppurtunity for them to do so and for us to get a more than decent backup forward and center. He does everything Jerome James does not and is fimilar playing Isiah Thomas basketball. Contract wise its doable and the Pacers also recieve two backcourt players that can shoot, which they desperately need, in addition to much needed cash.

*Knicks Trade (to Heat):*
Vladimir Radmanovic...F

*Knicks Recieve (from Heat):*
James Posey...G/F

I'm not sure whether the Heat would go along with this deal even though it is in their best interest. The Knicks would certainly be title contenders at this point and I doubt Riley would risk the PR disaster by making us stronger. Still, I believe they have much to benefit from making this deal because Vladimir gives them the offensive punch they missed next to Shaq and Wade last year. Radmanovic certainly is not going to be apart of the backbone of the offense but he can score and score well. His range is definately something that is needed after Kapano bolted to Toronto.

Posey is not the kind of guy that will change the fortunes of a team but he definately can contribute in a positive way. Every team needs a little rebel in them and we certainly get that in Posey. Over the past few seasons, he's managed to distingiush himself as a physical and versatile player who is not afraid to knock a player down (see Kirk Hinrich and the Bulls supporting cast). That kind of aggressiveness is something we need especially when we look to the future trying to defend Garnett with different matchups. Jefferies, Foster, Odom and Posey represent probably the most versatile and potentially successful defenses to at least slowing Garnett down.


Our lineup would look something like:
*STARTERS:*
Stephon Marbury...PG
Kobe Bryant...SG
James Posey...SF
Lamar Odom...PF
Eddy Curry...C

*ROTATION PLAYERS*
Mardy Collins...G/F
Derek Fisher...G
Ronaldo Balkman...F
Jared Jefferies...F
Jeff Foster...C

*BENCH*
Nate Robinson...G
Wilson Chandler...G/F
Randolph Morris...C
Jerome James...C

...I do not believe the Lakers would hold onto *Malik Rose*. If they would release him, I'd definately look to resign him back because he's definately got the kind of attitude and persona we would need on a title contender.


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## kconn61686 (Jul 29, 2005)

all impossible scenarios


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

Highly Doubtful.

If I was LA i do it in hearbeat....NY not so much.


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## ChosenFEW (Jun 23, 2005)

the only way i can see kobe out of a lakers uniform is when his opt out year comes and he mentions he's going to opt out. That will ultimately force the lakers hand and they will have to settle for whatever deal is out there


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

ChosenFEW said:


> the only way i can see kobe out of a lakers uniform is when his opt out year comes and he mentions he's going to opt out. That will ultimately force the lakers hand and they will have to settle for whatever deal is out there


Kobe Bryant has gone to the public and made his dissatisfication with the Lakers and his desire to leave the team known. What more evidence do you need to know of that he would more likely than not accept a trade to another team? Why not New York where he'd have a following that he's never had before. He'll have a legitimate oppurtunity to become the greatest Knick of all time which would be synonomous with one of the greatest players of all time. It's everything he and the Knicks could ever want.


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

kconn61686 said:


> all impossible scenarios


How so?


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## kconn61686 (Jul 29, 2005)

A. Derek Fisher cannot be traded until December 15, he was just signed.
B. Jeff Foster has value, and he would never be traded for 2 guys that were cap fillers in the deals they were acquired in. 
C. The Lakers would have to take on wayyy too many players
D. The Heat deal would be awful for Miami. They take on an awful contract committed for more years, where they could have allowed Posey to walk and not have any responsibility. Radmanovic is also not nearly worth that money, and is coming off injuries.


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

Power_Ballin said:


> Highly Doubtful.
> 
> If I was LA i do it in hearbeat....NY not so much.


Kobe is one of the best players in the league. How exactly do you part with someone that good in any deal in a heartbeat?


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## ChosenFEW (Jun 23, 2005)

TwinkieFoot said:


> Kobe Bryant has gone to the public and made his dissatisfication with the Lakers and his desire to leave the team known. What more evidence do you need to know of that he would more likely than not accept a trade to another team? Why not New York where he'd have a following that he's never had before. He'll have a legitimate oppurtunity to become the greatest Knick of all time which would be synonomous with one of the greatest players of all time. It's everything he and the Knicks could ever want.


pardon my french but, NO ****(duh)


im saying just because kobe made his desire to leave be known doesn't mean the lakers are just going to give in to his wishes. that was what i was getting at. lakers will not trade kobe until the last possible second when they know that no matter what they do that can not convince him to stay. which will be at the trade deadline on kobe's opt out year.


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## Bubbles (Nov 12, 2005)

Dumb for the Knicks. Why not gut the whole team?


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## alphaorange (Jul 2, 2006)

*Not to mention...*

Kobe is at the top of the hill right now. I suspect his decline will begin in a year or two. Although he takes great care of his body, he has a ton of miles. Eleven years in the NBA for a guard who plays a lot of minutes is a lot. He doesn't have enough time to be the greatest Knick ever based on his potential time with the Knicks. You get Kobe for the same reasons you get KG or JO. IF they put you over the top. If not, you pass.


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

kconn61686 said:


> A. Derek Fisher cannot be traded until December 15, he was just signed.
> B. Jeff Foster has value, and he would never be traded for 2 guys that were cap fillers in the deals they were acquired in.
> C. The Lakers would have to take on wayyy too many players
> D. The Heat deal would be awful for Miami. They take on an awful contract committed for more years, where they could have allowed Posey to walk and not have any responsibility. Radmanovic is also not nearly worth that money, and is coming off injuries.


A.) You got me on the Derek Fisher end. I thought that free agent signee's were eligible to be traded 60 days after their previous deals. Turns out that that rule only applies to players who were traded once before themselves.

B.) Brad Miller was twice the player Foster was at his peak and was essentially traded for Scott Pollard who rode the bench for the entire year. He is very much tradeable especially for expiring contracts with guys like Troy Murphy (in the mix until the 2010-2011 season at $10 mill per), Ike Diogu and David Harrison. Expiring contracts for serviceable back court players might be exactly what the Pacers would want in this situation.

P.S., the trade rumors for Foster have existed since earlier last offseason:
"The Sacramento Kings and Indiana Pacers are in advanced discussions involving a trade that would send Bonzi Wells to the Pacers to replace the firepower lost from Peja Stojakovic's departure to New Orleans. The trade would send Jeff Foster and Sarunas Jasikevicius to Sacramento in a sign-and-trade for Bonzi Wells." 
-- DraftExpress.com
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/scorecard/07/11/truth.rumors.nba/index.html

...Considering the little interest Bonzi Wells garnered over that offseason (when he only managed to recieve a 2 year contracts for $2 million per as a reserve), what do you believe that suggests and the Pacers value of Jeff Foster? That deal is very realistic.


C.) The Lakers only have 13 guareented contracts and a majority of them are owed to marginal players you could cut or seen to the D-League. In either case, they would be only receiving 6 players in change of 4 which should put them at the 15 player limit. I'd expect they'd cut Malik Rose anyway and open up a roster spot. In either case, there is no problem present.

D.) The Heat have only managed to muster up a roster of 13 players that are rather pathetic outside of the key players from their championship run. Bench depth and scoring happened to be two of their weakness' last year and certainly will be even more of a concern if James Posey leaves (which appears to be the case). Considering that Dwayne Wade has begun to show ****** in his armor with the recent injury bug, they need as many capable scorers and players as they can get. Radmanovic allows them to do so because he's a player that is already better than what most of what their supporting cast has to offer and fills a weakness for them; perimeter shooting. In addition to that, trading for Radmanovic actually preserves their Mid Level Exception I believe, which could go a long way in adding some depth to that team.


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

ChosenFEW said:


> pardon my french but, NO ****(duh)
> 
> 
> im saying just because kobe made his desire to leave be known doesn't mean the lakers are just going to give in to his wishes. that was what i was getting at. lakers will not trade kobe until the last possible second when they know that no matter what they do that can not convince him to stay. which will be at the trade deadline on kobe's opt out year.


Obviously you don't realize Kobe has a no trade clause. If they refuse to move him, he could just sit out the beginning of the season. Once they do decide it would be more marketable to get something for him, Kobe also decitates where he'd like to go using that no trade clause. Considering the quality deal the Knicks would be able to muster, I do not understand how or why the Lakers would balk at it.


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

Quite Frankly said:


> Dumb for the Knicks. Why not gut the whole team?


How is it dumb for the Knicks exactly? We'd have the role players in place to make the Kobe deal work. What would be the point of gutting the team then?


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

*Re: Not to mention...*



alphaorange said:


> Kobe is at the top of the hill right now. I suspect his decline will begin in a year or two. Although he takes great care of his body, he has a ton of miles. Eleven years in the NBA for a guard who plays a lot of minutes is a lot. He doesn't have enough time to be the greatest Knick ever based on his potential time with the Knicks. You get Kobe for the same reasons you get KG or JO. IF they put you over the top. If not, you pass.


Having nearly matched most of his career high's in each statistical category for a season, just last season, I doubt Kobe has begun to teeter off of the top of the hill. To be honest, I think we are only beginning to see Kobe at his best considering what he was able to accomplish individually despite what little he had to work with earlier. He's only 29 years old so I believe the issue regarding the wear and tear on his body is irrelevant. In actuality he's been a big minute player for only 9 seasons as a player and has hardly participated consistently in any World Championship games to not have the opportunity to recuperate the follow season. Besides, the supporting cast we can give him would actually listen his responsibilities as he aged. With key players such as Eddy Curry, Ronaldo Balkman, Mardy Collins, Wilson Chandler, and Nate Robinson having not entered their prime yet, Kobe should be covered in terms of a strong supporting cast down the line. Remember that Jordan, who had a similar physical physique and workout regime could still put up 20ppg at age 38 and 39. Kobe might very well be no different.


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## alphaorange (Jul 2, 2006)

*As astute as you are...*

on physiology (not being facetious), I'm surprised you don't know that physical decline is not only age related. All the joints are like bearings packed with "grease". Even the best lubricated will eventually wear out, even at a young chronological age. It is more a factor of use, rather than age. Even the heart has been discovered to have an approximate number of beats in its lifetime. In basketball, its the hours on the meter times the amount of work done. Obviously, there is some variability based on individual make-up.

Consider how many players at 33+ have the quickness and explosiveness he needs to be successful. Outside of perhaps AI, I can't think of any.


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

*Re: As astute as you are...*



alphaorange said:


> on physiology (not being facetious), I'm surprised you don't know that physical decline is not only age related. All the joints are like bearings packed with "grease". Even the best lubricated will eventually wear out, even at a young chronological age. It is more a factor of use, rather than age. Even the heart has been discovered to have an approximate number of beats in its lifetime. In basketball, its the hours on the meter times the amount of work done. Obviously, there is some variability based on individual make-up.
> 
> Consider how many players at 33+ have the quickness and explosiveness he needs to be successful. Outside of perhaps AI, I can't think of any.


What I don't understand is how you know and respect the fact that there is "some variability based on individual make-up" to a player's physical decline but continue to confine the physiological gifts of an extraordinary athlete to that of ordinary men. Let's be honest, none of what Kobe does on the floor is something most NBA players can approach in their career's. Why is it so hard to believe that that body of his, which makes him such a unique player, will not continue to push the boundaries of other ordinary athletes? If he even begins to fall off, that just makes him a "star" rather than a "superstar." He's the kind of player that I feel could still be all-star caliber well into his 30's as long as he has the supporting cast around him to take the burden off of him every night from having to be super-human everynight.


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## alphaorange (Jul 2, 2006)

*I respect that he is extraordinarily gifted*

however, that has nothing at all to do with longevity. Tons of athletes who were far more gifted than the average pro athlete have broken down SOONER than the average pro athlete. It happens all the time from Bo Jackson to Amare. To guess his body will hold up because of his talent is nothing more than a guess and a hope.


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## ChosenFEW (Jun 23, 2005)

TwinkieFoot said:


> Obviously you don't realize Kobe has a no trade clause. If they refuse to move him, he could just sit out the beginning of the season. Once they do decide it would be more marketable to get something for him, Kobe also decitates where he'd like to go using that no trade clause. Considering the quality deal the Knicks would be able to muster, I do not understand how or why the Lakers would balk at it.


yes i do....and when his opt out year comes they'll trade him to whatever team he wants as long as they get something in return. like i said the lakers will wait until the very last possible moment to trade kobe when they know no matter what they cant keep him


why would the lakers balk at a deal with the knicks?....ummm we have no one that is of the same caliber as kobe


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

ChosenFEW said:


> yes i do....and when his opt out year comes they'll trade him to whatever team he wants as long as they get something in return. like i said the lakers will wait until the very last possible moment to trade kobe when they know no matter what they cant keep him
> 
> 
> why would the lakers balk at a deal with the knicks?....ummm we have no one that is of the same caliber as kobe


No team has a player of the same caliber as Kobe and those who may have players whose trade value might approach Kobe's such as Lebron, etc., won't be on the block to be traded. Look what Kevin Garnett got dealt for. The Knicks stand to offer the best package.


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## ChosenFEW (Jun 23, 2005)

i guess all there is to do now is wait and see


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