# Josh Smith finally finds the perfect fit with the Houston Rockets



## Basel

> In the hours after a loss to the Brooklyn Nets, Stan Van Gundy sent Josh Smith a text message: "You haven't done anything wrong, but need you to stop by my office in the morning."
> 
> Van Gundy awaited him in the Detroit Pistons' practice facility and soon Smith began to listen to the franchise's president and coach lay out the franchise's predicament with him, the reasons it would've been unfair to bench Smith and limit his minutes, the reasons Van Gundy believed he owed Smith better for how professional he had been in their time together.
> 
> For a moment, Smith would wonder: "Where's this going?" and soon the words tumbled out of Van Gundy's mouth: "We're going to waive you, Josh."
> 
> With three years and $27 million left on his contract, Smith confesses now: "I was shocked." He knew Detroit had discussed trades, knew that that frontline of Greg Monroe and Andre Drummond was unworkable, but Josh Smith never expected to shake Van Gundy's hand and leave the gymnasium a free agent that morning.
> 
> His family was incensed and Josh understood it. His family has forever taken the criticism harder than him. Better than everyone else, they know him. They watch and listen to everything about him, the way loved ones do, and his father, Pete, warned Josh: "You're going to get scrutinized … It's going to make you look bad," and with the world barking louder and louder, trashing his character and dismissing his considerable talent, Josh Smith told his father simply: "I don’t care."
> 
> In every way, the Pistons' act was liberating. Josh Smith had true free agency now, an ability to choose a team based on fit and comfort and winning, not on salary cap space. He let it go, let it all go. For everyone trying to turn Smith into a punchline, he understood the truth: Contenders would want him, and Smith could play a part for a winner again. It's happening for the Houston Rockets now, Smith fitting so perfectly with his quirky co-stars and coach who's commanded his respect and cooperation.
> 
> Smith returns to play the Pistons in Auburn Hills tonight, and he's playing his best basketball in years. The Rockets haven't imploded with Smith. They've thrived with him. The idea of a contract extension this summer appeals to him, because the roster is talented and deep, his role's increasingly defined and most of all: "I'm comfortable here," Smith told Yahoo Sports.


https://sports.yahoo.com/news/josh-...t-with-the-houston-rockets-144750675-nba.html


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## BlakeJesus

I never thought Josh Smith was done or anything like that, they should have never given him that contract in the first place and I think both parties are better off having parted ways.


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## R-Star

He's had just as many games playing like shit as he has had good games. Hell, he's had more where he's played like shit actually. But since he's played decent since Howard decided he's too injured to play, sports writers are completely changing their opinion on him after writing him off a few weeks back.


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## e-monk

I'm sorry but WTF is this "perfect fit" nonsense? he's been thoroughly mediocre with the Rockets, it's not like he's suddenly bloomed into anything resembling anything special and it's not like the Rockets have been better since adding him - they were 21-7 without him (even with Tarik Black having to start a handful of games with Dwight out) and 12-7 since so....?


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## seifer0406

I don't think anyone was claiming that Josh Smith would turn the Rockets from a championship contender that they already were (pretty much any of the playoff teams with the exception of maybe Phoenix could be contenders) to championship favorites. My expectations for him from the beginning was that he would be an upgrade over the guys that they were forced to play due to injuries to Terrence Jones and Dwight Howard. For one the fact that they were already 21-7 makes the expectation that the Rockets would be better with Smith an unrealistic expectation. Unless you were expecting them to go undefeated, chances are you would be disappointed by whatever else that ended up happening.

As for the Pistons I still believe they made the wrong decision to waive Josh Smith outright. Even if they are going to do it they should've done it after the season is over. I know the fans were excited when they went on that win streak post Josh but the reality is that team is still a few young pieces away from turning it around and all those wins did was hurt their chances of getting those pieces through the draft.


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## e-monk

someone is specifically writing that Josh Smith is a perfect fit with the Rockets -check the top of the thread


meanwhile the Rockets were better off with Tarik Black than they are with Josh Smith - T/F? because the record says T


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## seifer0406

e-monk said:


> the Rockets were better off with Tarik Black than they are with Josh Smith - T/F?


You are aware that Tarik Black fell out of the rotation prior to Josh Smith signing with the Rockets right? When Dwight Howard was healthy the Rockets moved Black to the bench and because Black cannot play with Joey Dorsey(both of them have no offensive abilities), the Rockets went with Dorsey and that Greek rookie instead of Black.

Now that Dwight is hurt maybe you could make an argument that the Rockets can use Black to fill in as a starter. But when everyone's healthy it's pretty obvious that the Rockets are better with Josh Smith than they are with Black.

Like I said, using records to justify your argument isn't very convincing at all. I mean if you want to you could leave Black out of it completely considering he wouldn't be playing much with or without Smith.


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## e-monk

you are aware that the Rockets record with Black starting in place of Dwight was better than this "Perfect Fit" they have with Josh Smith right? have you read this thread because it's about how Josh Smith is a 'perfect fit' with the Rockets when he's actually been about the same as he was with the Pistons (which was terrible) and the Rockets have actually won at a lower rate than they did before he arrived (even with Tarik Black starting in place of Dwight)

r-star's right, this is about a lazy sportswriter making up a story that has nothing to do with the facts

but if you want to make this about an off handed comment about Tarik Black the facts of the matter are that the Rockets won at a better rate with Black starting and Dwight out than they are now with Smoove in place and Dwight out


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## seifer0406

e-monk said:


> you are aware that the Rockets record with Black starting in place of Dwight was better than this "Perfect Fit" they have with Josh Smith right? have you read this thread because it's about how Josh Smith is a 'perfect fit' with the Rockets when he's actually been about the same as he was with the Pistons (which was terrible) and the Rockets have actually won at a lower rate than they did before he arrived (even with Tarik Black starting in place of Dwight)
> 
> r-star's right, this is about a lazy sportswriter making up a story that has nothing to do with the facts
> 
> but if you want to make this about an off handed comment about Tarik Black the facts of the matter are that the Rockets won at a better rate with Black starting and Dwight out than they are now with Smoove in place and Dwight out - so put it in paper bag


If we go with your logic, the Rockets would end up winning 62 games since 21-7 means they win 75% of their games. You and I both know that chances are they wouldn't win 62 games with or without Smith considering that type of injuries that they've had to their front court. To continue defending your argument saying that "Ha! The Rockets aren't winning 75% of their games therefore Smith is worse than Black" is just disingenuous. A)The team got off to a hot start that they can't keep up and B)Black wasn't playing much even without Smith.

Moreover if you actually look at the teams that the Rockets lost to, you are not going to see much difference before and after Josh Smith. Before the Rockets acquired Smith, the only loss that they had against a sub .500 team was against the Lakers. Since they got Smith, the Rockets have a whooping 2 losses against .500 teams. They lost to Orlando and they lost to Detroit tonight. I mean really, 1 more loss solidifies your argument? This is your proof that the Rockets aren't good with Smith because of 1 more loss? I'm not saying that theres no chance that they won't be losing more games to bad teams, but at the present time your argument doesn't stand.

Btw, I'm not saying that I agree with the perfect fit argument that this writer is putting forth. All I am saying is that the addition of Smith have gone more or less how I expected. The Rockets were thin up front due to injuries and they have upgraded in terms of talent with Smith. The thing that a lot of people were worried about was locker room issues and that just hasn't been an issue thus far.


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## Adam

All he has done is put up worse stats and lose his position. Let's also remember that this isn't even the playoffs yet. Is he going to come off the bench and chuck threes in the playoffs like he is doing now?

The "perfect fit" has been D-Mo who took Smith's spot and has been beasting. This is just Woj being Woj. It's common knowledge that he is great for breaking trades but is subpar with his articles.


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## bball2223

seifer0406 said:


> As for the Pistons I still believe they made the wrong decision to waive Josh Smith outright. Even if they are going to do it they should've done it after the season is over. I know the fans were excited when they went on that win streak post Josh but the reality is that team is still a few young pieces away from turning it around and all those wins did was hurt their chances of getting those pieces through the draft.












Few pieces away from turning it around? Pistons would have made the playoffs if Jennings stayed healthy, post waiving Josh Smith. Are we a few pieces from competing? Most definitely, but lol at the Pistons making the wrong decision. Waiving Smith gave us a chance, as remote as it made sound, to keep Greg Monroe, which is huge going forward for the franchise. No way Monroe gives us a sniff in July if we keep Smith all season, seeing as he is finally happy playing for us again.


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## bball2223

That being said I wish Josh Smith well in the future, whether it be in Houston or for some other franchise.


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## seifer0406

bball2223 said:


> Few pieces away from turning it around? Pistons would have made the playoffs if Jennings stayed healthy, post waiving Josh Smith. Are we a few pieces from competing? Most definitely, but lol at the Pistons making the wrong decision. Waiving Smith gave us a chance, as remote as it made sound, to keep Greg Monroe, which is huge going forward for the franchise. No way Monroe gives us a sniff in July if we keep Smith all season, seeing as he is finally happy playing for us again.


You know what else would've helped the Pistons's chances of keeping Monroe? Not benching him when they had Smith. Getting rid of Smith and benching Monroe are 2 separate issues. If the priority was the keep Monroe from the get go, the Pistons shouldn't have benched him.

This is the logic that I don't get with fans that get behind the Pistons organization. This is an organization that signed Josh Smith when they already had Monroe and Drummond. Didn't offer a max extension to Monroe in the off season.(Whether or not Monroe would've accepted the offer is irrelvant considering the Pistons didn't even offer it) Didn't trade Smith or even waive him prior to the season to open up playing time for Monroe. Benched Monroe even though the team was better when Drummond/Monroe were on the court together instead of Smith. The team just made a chain of terrible decisions one after another but now that they waive Smith out right it's obviously the right decision because they would've clawed their way into the playoffs as an 8th seed and likely bounced in the first round. The experience would obviously benefit their young players until you realize that the team outside of Drummond/KCP/Monroe is really not that young. The way I look at it it's a bad team making questionable decisions.

The issue from the beginning wasn't that the Pistons would be better without Smith. From the second that they signed Smith I could've told you that it was be a terrible fit because they already had Monroe and Drummond and Josh Smith can't play 3. The issue here is whether waiving him at that time was the best course of action and my view is that it wasn't. If the goal was to keep Monroe they've done a piss poor job up to the point of waiving Smith to keep him. If the goal was to get talent through the draft then they've shot themselves in the foot by winning games after going 5-20 or whatever their record was at the time. If the goal was to develop their young talent it's even funnier since they don't have much outside of Drummond and Monroe to develop. As much as I like KCP and Kyle Singler they are just role players at best. Guys like Luigi Datome and Jonas Jerebko barely prospects at this point. They had one way to get young talent which was through the draft and they've hurt their chances with those wins. It's just a bad move from all angles in my opinion.


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## bball2223

It was a bad decision to sign him by Joe Dumars, who is no longer here, and someone I was vocal against for a long, long time. SVG wanted a clean slate and got it. I wasn't a fan of the Smith pickup either, and have been a large vocal opponent of the Pistons front office before SVG arrived. I think Van Gundy has done a good job, all things considered, thus far. Waiving Smith before Christmas gives the young guys a major chance to develop and see what we have moving forward. Your argument would carry a hell of a lot more weight if SVG signed Smith.

This is a playoff team minus Smith if Jennings stays healthy. Regardless, Jennings gets hurt after a great 15-16 game run, and we have a chance to still suck enough to secure a solid draft pick in a pretty solid draft. By all means, keep going on with the SVG did the wrong thing angle, though.


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## seifer0406

bball2223 said:


> By all means, keep going on with the SVG did the wrong thing angle, though.


The things that SVG did leading up to the waiving of Smith were mostly wrong. Didn't offer Monroe a max contract extension. Didn't trade Smith for Jason Thompson and Carl Landry, a trade that would've saved the Pistons 4 mil over 3 years and made them a better team since they are better without Smith. Benched Monroe in favor of Smith even though they wanted to keep Monroe. Considering all of these, why in the world would anyone think that what SVG did in waiving Smith outright would be the best course of action?


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## bball2223

He played Smith to increase his trade value. Was it wise to do it to keep Monroe? Not initially, but cutting our ties with Smith has increased our odds of keeping Monroe. I doubt he would have signed the extension seeing as he wanted to see how he fit in Van Gundy's system before making a decision. SVG has wanted to rid Detroit of Smith from the get go. The trade with Sacramento wouldn't have hurt, but pulling the trigger on that isn't magically making the Pistons contenders the next 2 or so years. Nothing done in the past few months has at all crippled the franchise. Van Gundy has been fine, and the Pistons will become better under his watch. That's about all Pistons fans can ask for at this stage.


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## seifer0406

bball2223 said:


> He played Smith to increase his trade value. Was it wise to do it to keep Monroe? Not initially, but cutting our ties with Smith has increased our odds of keeping Monroe. I doubt he would have signed the extension seeing as he wanted to see how he fit in Van Gundy's system before making a decision. SVG has wanted to rid Detroit of Smith from the get go. The trade with Sacramento wouldn't have hurt, but pulling the trigger on that isn't magically making the Pistons contenders the next 2 or so years. Nothing done in the past few months has at all crippled the franchise. Van Gundy has been fine, and the Pistons will become better under his watch. That's about all Pistons fans can ask for at this stage.


You're just blabbering at this point. None of this makes any sense. Just admit that you have no defense for why SVG started Josh Smith instead of Greg Monroe and why the Pistons didn't at least offer Monroe a max extension. If playing Smith was SVG's way of increasing his trade value, then that would be another thing that he was mistaken in since Smith's value actually dropped after SVG did this.

I'll tell you what I think actually happened. Van Gundy thought that starting Josh Smith next to Drummond and letting Monroe come off the bench would help the Pistons win games. He felt that keeping Josh Smith was better than getting Carl Landry and Jason Thompson. When the shit hit the fan and the Pistons got off to one of the worst starts in team history, he realized that he made a mistake in not trading Smith. When SVG tried to move Smith all the teams realized that the Pistons were desperate and wanted to exploit them by asking for pick(s) along with Smith. Not wanting to do that, SVG decided to just say **** it and waived him outright. It was bad moves after bad moves which eventually led to that move. I don't know why any intelligent Piston fan would defend the guy. I'm not even going to talk about that Jodie Meeks contract which was terrible as well. Who else was out there offering Meeks 6 mil a year for 3 years?


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## bball2223

> You're just blabbering at this point. None of this makes any sense. Just admit that you have no defense for why SVG started Josh Smith instead of Greg Monroe and why the Pistons didn't at least offer Monroe a max extension.


Pistons still have a chance to sign Monroe in a few months, no? The Smith experiment ended before Christmas. Monroe knows how much he means to the Pistons and our future. Doesn't mean he will stay here, but keeping Smith all year, per your suggestion, gives us zero shot of retaining Monroe long term. 




> If playing Smith was SVG's way of increasing his trade value, then that would be another thing that he was mistaken in since Smith's value actually dropped after SVG did this.


Which is why we waived him before Chirstmas, instead of waiting until this summer per your suggestion. I never said SVG was perfect, but he realized starting Smith wasn't a great plan of action, and got rid of him. He did it in enough time that we were a playoff team with a healthy Jennings, and with him out are still in line to get a solid draft pick in a solid draft. 




> I'll tell you what I think actually happened.














> When the shit hit the fan and the Pistons got off to one of the worst starts in team history, he realized that he made a mistake in not trading Smith.



Or it was a mistake to have Smith on the roster to begin with, again, a Dumars mistake. Would have loved to get something in return for Smith, but keeping him around all year to ultimately do what we did a month ago does way more harm than good for our franchise. 



> I don't know why any intelligent Piston fan would defend the guy. I'm not even going to talk about that Jodie Meeks contract which was terrible as well. Who else was out there offering Meeks 6 mil a year for 3 years?


Dumars gave $150 Million between Josh Smith, Ben Gordon and Charlie V. I think 18 million for Meeks is something we can live with, especially considering our desperate need for shooting coming into this season.


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## seifer0406

bball2223 said:


> Pistons still have a chance to sign Monroe in a few months, no? The Smith experiment ended before Christmas. Monroe knows how much he means to the Pistons and our future. Doesn't mean he will stay here, but keeping Smith all year, per your suggestion, gives us zero shot of retaining Monroe long term.


Your point is? The Pistons as well as 29 other teams have a chance to sign Monroe. He's an unrestricted free agent. The fact that it got to this point in the first place is SVG's fault.

Your theory that the Pistons were trying to keep Monroe from the get go fails because of 2 reasons. They benched Monroe for reasons unknown to anyone and they didn't offer him a max extension. When an unbiased person looks at this, the logical conclusion is that they chose Smith over Monroe at the beginning of the season and when it didn't work SVG decided to switch ships. Again, anyone with half a brain would've seen that the Pistons are better with Monroe.



> Which is why we waived him before Chirstmas, instead of waiting until this summer per your suggestion. I never said SVG was perfect, but he realized starting Smith wasn't a great plan of action, and got rid of him. He did it in enough time that we were a playoff team with a healthy Jennings, and with him out are still in line to get a solid draft pick in a solid draft.


You are all over the place with your logic here. If that's SVG's plan then that's the dumbest plan I've ever heard. He played Smith to increase his value but when Smith's value decreased instead, decided to sell low on Smith in order to save the season and help him re-sign Monroe(who he benched). When the season ended up failing(failing is a tough word to use when making in as an 8th seed counts as success), SVG did a good job because the Pistons still suck enough to get a high pick. If this isn't homer logic I don't know what is. Well congratulations SVG. You have the most exciting 10 game under .500 team in league history and you're the most respected coach/GM that runs a team that bad I've ever seen.


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## R-Star

A whole thread of people telling Seifer he's wrong, why am I unsurprised?


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## seifer0406

R-Star said:


> A whole thread of people telling Seifer he's wrong, why am I unsurprised?


Still think Perry Jones is a huge part of OKC's bench or have you learned your lesson?


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## R-Star

seifer0406 said:


> Still think Perry Jones is a huge part of OKC's bench or have you learned your lesson?


Learned my lesson? Why is it you didn't reply when I recently bumbed this gem of yours?



seifer0406 said:


> The Knicks would have to be retarded to trade Shumpert for Lowry. The problem still remains for the Knicks, a lack of perimeter defenders. Shumpert is their only perimeter defender and unless they're getting one in return they're not trading Shumpert.
> 
> I would however consider taking on Amare's contract if it means we get Shumpert. If we can include Landry Fields and Chuck Hayes into the trade we're only taking on 10 more mil of contract next season since Fields makes a staggering 8.5 mil next year.
> 
> Getting Shumpert would also allow us to explore trade options with DeRozan. While not a popular opinion trading DeRozan now has many benefits. His value has never been higher and trading him away now would allow us to effectively tank the rest of the season.


You just never learn do you. I'm better than you Seifer. Threads like this where every single poster piles on you should have taught you that by now. You're a joke.


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## seifer0406

R-Star said:


> Learned my lesson? Why is it you didn't reply when I recently bumbed this gem of yours?
> 
> 
> 
> You just never learn do you. I'm better than you Seifer. Threads like this where every single poster piles on you should have taught you that by now. You're a joke.


I had a nice chuckle when I saw you attack Masai for trading Rudy Gay and Bargnani. So how did those trades work out for the Raptors?

After Bosh left the team the majority of the Raptor fans wanted the team to tank for picks. Even when you read that thread you bumped almost everyone in the thread wanted the trade to happen. When Masai made the Rudy Gay trade he admitted later in interviews that he did not expect the team to win afterwards. The Lowry trade was a part of that tank plan. So excuse me for not seeing this incredible turn of events that ended up happening.

The funny thing is reading that thread, you made no mention that you were against that trade either. I don't see your point of bumping it as if that's some outrageous thing I did.

That Perry Jones thing on the other end is just comical. I can't help but say that I told you that once Durant and Westbrook are healthy neither Jones nort Lamb would be in their rotation. I'm also still waiting for this epic Houston internal collapse that you predicted. I'm not going to hold my breath on that one.


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## R-Star

seifer0406 said:


> I had a nice chuckle when I saw you attack Masai for trading Rudy Gay and Bargnani. So how did those trades work out for the Raptors?
> 
> After Bosh left the team the majority of the Raptor fans wanted the team to tank for picks. When Masai made the Rudy Gay trade he admitted later in interviews that he did not expect the team to win afterwards. The Lowry trade was a part of that tank plan. So excuse me for not seeing this incredible turn of events that ended up happening.
> 
> The funny thing is reading that thread, you made no mention that you were against that trade either. I don't see your point of bumping it as if that's some outrageous thing I did.
> 
> That Perry Jones thing on the other end is just comical. I can't help but say that I told you that once Durant and Westbrook are healthy neither Jones nort Lamb would be in their rotation. I'm also still waiting for this epic Houston internal collapse that you predicted. I'm not going to hold my breath on that one.


So your response is "What I really meant was...."

****. What a chump. 

As far as Perry Jones, he's played like shit since the new year. There's still games he logs heavy minutes, but stat wise he's stinking it up. I'd be pefectly fine with saying at this point, he is not a very important part of the teams roster.

See, that's because I can admit my opinions aren't always correct Seifer. When all of us sit here in our computer chairs trying to predict the future of the NBA, every last one of us will be wrong time and again. I understand that, which is why I laugh off times where I'm wrong. You on the other hand are part of the large portion of posters who refuse to admit being wrong, and spend hour upon hour defending opinions like "The Knicks would be stupid to trade Shumpert for Lowry."

So please Seifer, explain why the Knicks would be stupid to make that trade. You mentioned "Well every single Raptors fan wanted them to tank", and even though that's just factually untrue, it doesn't even matter. In your post you're talking about how the Knicks would be stupid to trade Shumpert for Lowry. You mention nothing of how it would be for Toronto. Well other than sayng it would help you guys dump Derozan as well.

Again Seifer, what a ****ing chump you are. "NOPE! NOPE! I'M RIGHT! EVERY SINGLE RAPTORS FAN WANTED...." shut the **** up dumb dumb. Just honestly, do yourself a favor and shut your mouth. This entire thread is full of multiple posters telling you you're an idiot and you keep replying. 

Clue in.


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## seifer0406

R-Star said:


> So your response is "What I really meant was...."
> 
> ****. What a chump.
> 
> As far as Perry Jones, he's played like shit since the new year. There's still games he logs heavy minutes, but stat wise he's stinking it up. I'd be pefectly fine with saying at this point, he is not a very important part of the teams roster.
> 
> See, that's because I can admit my opinions aren't always correct Seifer. When all of us sit here in our computer chairs trying to predict the future of the NBA, every last one of us will be wrong time and again. I understand that, which is why I laugh of times where I'm wrong. You on the other hand are part of the large portion of posters who refuse to admit being wrong, and spend hour upon hour defending opinions like "The Knicks would be stupid to trade Shumpert for Lowry."
> 
> So please Seifer, explain why the Knicks would be stupid to make that trade. You mentioned "Well every single Raptors fan wanted them to tank", and even though that's just factually untrue, it doesn't even matter. In your post you're talking about how the Knicks would be stupid to trade Shumpert for Lowry. You mention nothing of how it would be for Toronto. Well other than sayng it would help you guys dump Derozan as well.
> 
> Again Seifer, what a ****ing chump you are. "NOPE! NOPE! I'M RIGHT! EVERY SINGLE RAPTORS FAN WANTED...." shut the **** up dumb dumb. Just honestly, do yourself a favor and shut your mouth. This entire thread is full of multiple posters telling you you're an idiot and you keep replying.
> 
> Clue in.


Do you have a reading disability? How did my reply turn into "What I really meant was....?" There is no spin here. If your point is to say that I was wrong about Lowry then my reply is no shit. Of course I was wrong about Lowry. What's next? Why don't you name me someone who knew otherwise, who knew that keeping Lowry means the Raptors would turn into one of the best teams in the East. It certainly wasn't you.

Like I said, nobody knew that the Raptors would make this kind of a turnaround. You didn't know, I didn't know, the people in that thread you bumped didn't know. Masai Ujiri admitted himself that he didn't know either. It's a bitch move that you're claiming you knew something and others didn't when in fact you didn't say anything negative about that trade either. So I don't see what your point is. Are you really that short on stuff that you were right and I was wrong about that you had to resort to this kind of bullshit? Sometimes things happen that don't make sense. Theres a reason why a ton of articles have been written about the Raptors epic rise. It wouldn't be an epic rise if people expected it.

The funny thing about the Perry Jones thing wasn't the fact that you were wrong about his minutes. It was the fact that you thought he was a part of the Thunder's bench when in fact he was never a big part of it this year as well as the majority of his career. You knew nothing about him or OKC and was just spouting random bullshit just to make an argument. It was obviously wrong and you wouldn't admit you were wrong then. Durant got hurt and Jones played because they had no other options. It's not because Jones is a good player that he earned those minutes. Naturally now that Durant's back those minutes are gone.


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## R-Star

seifer0406 said:


> Do you have a reading disability? How did my reply turn into "What I really meant was....?" There is no spin here. If your point is to say that I was wrong about Lowry then my reply is no shit. Of course I was wrong about Lowry. What's next? Why don't you name me someone who knew otherwise, who knew that keeping Lowry means the Raptors would turn into one of the best teams in the East. It certainly wasn't you.
> 
> Like I said, nobody knew that the Raptors would make this kind of a turnaround. You didn't know, I didn't know, the people in that thread you bumped didn't know. Masai Ujiri admitted himself that he didn't know either. It's a bitch move that you're claiming you knew something and others didn't when in fact you didn't say anything negative about that trade either. So I don't see what your point is. Are you really that short on stuff that you were right and I was wrong about that you had to resort to this kind of bullshit? Sometimes things happen that don't make sense. Theres a reason why a ton of articles have been written about the Raptors epic rise. It wouldn't be an epic rise if people expected it.
> 
> The funny thing about the Perry Jones thing wasn't the fact that you were wrong about his minutes. It was the fact that you thought he was a part of the Thunder's bench when in fact he was never a part of it this year as well as the majority of his career. You knew nothing about him or OKC and was just spouting random bullshit just to make an argument. It was obviously wrong and you wouldn't admit you were wrong then. Durant got hurt and Jones played because they had no other options. It's not because Jones is a good player that he earned those minutes. Naturally now that Durant's back those minutes are gone.


No one knew Lowry would be good..... when he was averaging similar numbers to what he is now back when you wanted to trade him for Shumpert? And that was... back when? Back when the Raptors were playing their best basketball in years?

Yea. No one knew. Everyone shared your opinion. Everyone wanted to trade Lowry and Derozan, even if there's endless posts stating otherwise. 


**** me... You're such a ****ing joke man. How many threads do we have to set aside to have a Seifer VS the World laugh fest?

Smith got 7 and 7 last night in a loss against Detroit. What a world beater.


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## seifer0406

R-Star said:


> No one knew Lowry would be good..... when he was averaging similar numbers to what he is now back when you wanted to trade him for Shumpert? And that was... back when? Back when the Raptors were playing their best basketball in years?
> 
> Yea. No one knew. Everyone shared your opinion. Everyone wanted to trade Lowry and Derozan, even if there's endless posts stating otherwise.
> 
> 
> **** me... You're such a ****ing joke man. How many threads do we have to set aside to have a Seifer VS the World laugh fest?
> 
> Smith got 7 and 7 last night in a loss against Detroit. What a world beater.


That's awesome R-Star. Too bad you didn't mention that you wanted the Raptors to keep Lowry back when that thread was made. Would make your claim to be a know-it-all much more convincing. But instead this just makes you look like a jackass who likes to claim knowledge after the fact. Just **** off and run along and take your internet tough guy act elsewhere.


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## R-Star

seifer0406 said:


> That's awesome R-Star. Too bad you didn't mention that you wanted the Raptors to keep Lowry back when that thread was made. Would make your claim to be a know-it-all much more convincing. But instead this just makes you look like a jackass who likes to claim knowledge after the fact. Just **** off and run along and take your internet tough guy act elsewhere.


The uh.... the entire thread quoted is me mentioning how you consistently want to trade the Raptors top players in a revolving door or stupid trades, actually. 

Personally I said I thought they should trade Lowry at the time because I thought he would leave after being the teams whipping boy. 

I'm still waiting on you to explain how no one knew Lowry would be good when he was playing exactly like he is now. 

Or hell, maybe you can elaborate on how they should trade Derozan because "he plays at a position overloaded with talent". Personally, myself and anyone else who watches the game has noticed that the 2 guard has been extremely weak in the league for years but hey, maybe you can convince us otherwise.


Seifer, you aren't going to win. You never win. You always throw around insults, progressively post more and more stupid shit, and then sulk and say you aren't going to waste your time. 

Go use your time more wisely. There is probably a muslim somewhere out there you could be yelling at.


----------



## seifer0406

R-Star said:


> The uh.... the entire thread quoted is me mentioning how you consistently want to trade the Raptors top players in a revolving door or stupid trades, actually.
> 
> Personally I said I thought they should trade Lowry at the time because I thought he would leave after being the teams whipping boy.
> 
> I'm still waiting on you to explain how no one knew Lowry would be good when he was playing exactly like he is now.
> 
> Or hell, maybe you can elaborate on how they should trade Derozan because "he plays at a position overloaded with talent". Personally, myself and anyone else who watches the game has notices that the 2 guard has been extremely weak in the league for years but hey, maybe you can convince us otherwise.
> 
> 
> Seifer, you aren't going to win. You never win. You always throw around insults, progressively poster more and more stupid shit, and then sulk and say you aren't going to waste your time.
> 
> Go use your time more wisely. There is probably a muslim somewhere out there you could be yelling at.


and who's playing the "What I really meant was....."game now? Are you telling me that you thought the Raptors would be better with Lowry?

You criticized the Raptors for trading Rudy Gay and Bargnani. Both trades were considered to be Masai Ujiri's finest work. So kudos for you for being wrong once again.

As for DeRozan the guy was a mediocre player before Rudy Gay got traded. I did not expect him to make the leap into one of the best 2 guards in the league however had the Raptors committed to tanking it would've made sense to trade DeRozan for picks. Again, the Raptors never took that route and I'm glad to see things work out a different way however had the Raptors made those trades I would've been fine with the thinking behind it as well.


----------



## R-Star

seifer0406 said:


> and who's playing the "What I really meant was....."game now? Are you telling me that you thought the Raptors would be better with Lowry?
> 
> You criticized the Raptors for trading Rudy Gay and Bargnani. Both trades were considered to be Masai Ujiri's finest work. So kudos for you for being wrong once again.
> 
> As for DeRozan the guy was a mediocre player before Rudy Gay got traded. I did not expect him to make the leap into one of the best 2 guards in the league however had the Raptors committed to tanking it would've made sense to trade DeRozan for picks. Again, the Raptors never took that route and I'm glad to see things work out a different way however had the Raptors made those trades I would've been fine with the thinking behind it as well.


Derozan was playing fine with Gay actually. But here we go again with "Well because xxxx happened that means I was kind of right when I said we should have traded him." actually, no. You ****ing weren't. You even went on to question my "Man crush" with Demar because I didn't think the Raps should dump them.

As far as Gay, Bargnani, etc, the point I made then stands now. You yearly make posts of "Lowry is the problem trade him!" "Derozan is the problem trade him!" "Rudy Gay is the problem trade him!" "Bargnani is the problem trade him!" "Chris Bosh is the problem trade him!"

Every ****ing year. I still think it was premature to trade Gay. Especially seeing how the Raptors biggest weakness is the 3 right now. Obviously Lowry and Demar would be getting less shots with him there though so it's probably better he's gone. Bargnani I never said shouldn't be traded. I just pointed out that the team consistently scape goats players. Especially you. 

Last year you wanted to trade Derozan and replace him with Ross. Now I wouldn't be surprised if there's posts where you throw out Ross trade options. 

As far as did I think the Raptors would be better with Lowry? Of course. But I thought he would leave since the Seifers of the world were calling for trades. Turns out I underrated just how good Masai is, because I was sure Kyle would have walked.


----------



## seifer0406

R-Star said:


> As far as did I think the Raptors would be better with Lowry? Of course. But I thought he would leave since the Seifers of the world were calling for trades. Turns out I underrated just how good Masai is, because I was sure Kyle would have walked.


lol, just get the **** outta here dude. You saw the Raptors epic ascension before it happened. Great, maybe you should apply for Masai's job because dude that actually wanted to make that move didn't see it.

Like I said, I am disappointed in you for not enlightening us with that knowledge when we were discussing that trade back then. I wonder why you didn't tell us that keeping Lowry would help our team turn it around.



> As far as Gay, Bargnani, etc, the point I made then stands now. You yearly make posts of "Lowry is the problem trade him!" "Derozan is the problem trade him!" "Rudy Gay is the problem trade him!" "Bargnani is the problem trade him!" "Chris Bosh is the problem trade him!"


You can't even comprehend how wrong you are. That Gay trade was essentially what turned the franchise around. Not only did Vasquez and Patterson turned out to be good role players, John Salmons eventually turned into Lou Williams and Lucas Nogueira. DeRozan got more touches after Gay left and the team took off afterwards.

And again you completely misunderstood what the issue was with those players you mentioned. Nobody said that the Raptors should trade Bosh because he's the problem. People wanted to trade him because they thought he would leave and he did. Had Masai been around back then he would've traded Bosh and got something for him instead of allowing him to walk free. The reason why the Raptors fans, myself included, wanted Lowry and Gay gone is because the core at the time wasn't working. They were at best an 8th seed or around 30-35 wins. Not wanting to be stuck in mediocrity a lot of the fans wanted the team to tank. It's not the "Let's trade someone so the team improves" like you apparently think it is.



> Last year you wanted to trade Derozan and replace him with Ross. Now I wouldn't be surprised if there's posts where you throw out Ross trade options.


Ross shown a lot of potential in his rookie year but he hasn't improved at all the last 2 years. Just because DeRozan worked out doesn't mean that every young prospect that walks in the door would work out the same way. Again, it's easy to talk shit after the fact. Everyone's a genius that way.


----------



## XxIrvingxX

Aaaanddd we're back to this again.


----------



## R-Star

seifer0406 said:


> lol, just get the **** outta here dude. You saw the Raptors epic ascension before it happened. Great, maybe you should apply for Masai's job because dude that actually wanted to make that move didn't see it.
> 
> Like I said, I am disappointed in you for not enlightening us with that knowledge when we were discussing that trade back then. I wonder why you didn't tell us that keeping Lowry would help our team turn it around.
> 
> 
> 
> You can't even comprehend how wrong you are. That Gay trade was essentially what turned the franchise around. Not only did Vasquez and Patterson turned out to be good role players, John Salmons eventually turned into Lou Williams and Lucas Nogueira. DeRozan got more touches after Gay left and the team took off afterwards.
> 
> And again you completely misunderstood what the issue was with those players you mentioned. Nobody said that the Raptors should trade Bosh because he's the problem. People wanted to trade him because they thought he would leave and he did. Had Masai been around back then he would've traded Bosh and got something for him instead of allowing him to walk free. The reason why the Raptors fans, myself included, wanted Lowry and Gay gone is because the core at the time wasn't working. They were at best an 8th seed or around 30-35 wins. Not wanting to be stuck in mediocrity a lot of the fans wanted the team to tank. It's not the "Let's trade someone so the team improves" like you apparently think it is.
> 
> 
> 
> Ross shown a lot of potential in his rookie year but he hasn't improved at all the last 2 years. Just because DeRozan worked out doesn't mean that every young prospect that walks in the door would work out the same way. Again, it's easy to talk shit after the fact. Everyone's a genius that way.


Talk shit after the fact? You seem to be trying to change the narrative here. Would you like me to quote both posts where I said the Raptors should keep Demar, and my post saying Lowry was the whipping boy and I thought he would walk if they kept him?

Just asking. Because I've already looked up both posts today. Do you want me to put them in this thread? Because your little "Ohhhh! R-Star ****ing knows everything huh!!!!" child like rant would look even more laughable.

Am I always right? Not even close. I'm not sure how that at all relates to your "Oh! Look who should be taking Masai's job!"

You're just a ****ing horrible poster. You're doing this all wrong. I need to go pick a fight with Jamel or RWE. The best way I could describe you is unstimulating.


----------



## Mrs. Thang

Are we sure Monroe wasn't offered a max extension? He seemed pretty unkeen about signing on to play with Smith for at least two more years.

Cutting Smith also gives the Piston's 8 extra million in cap room this summer. They can give Monroe a max deal and then still throw near max money at Draymond Green or Jimmy Butler or whoever else they want. It's hard to argue SVG made the wrong move when the team got better, they got more flexibility in the summer, and the young players they are supposed to be developing now get to touch the ball.

Didn't Wojnarowski just get outed for exchanging puff pieces for information? I wonder what Josh Smith's agent had to do in exchange for this one.


----------



## R-Star

Mrs. Thang said:


> Are we sure Monroe wasn't offered a max extension? He seemed pretty unkeen about signing on to play with Smith for at least two more years.
> 
> Cutting Smith also gives the Piston's 8 extra million in cap room this summer. They can give Monroe a max deal and then still throw near max money at Draymond Green or Jimmy Butler or whoever else they want. It's hard to argue SVG made the wrong move when the team got better, they got more flexibility in the summer, and the young players they are supposed to be developing now get to touch the ball.
> 
> Didn't Wojnarowski just get outed for exchanging puff pieces for information? I wonder what Josh Smith's agent had to do in exchange for this one.


Exactly. To me if you can't even trade Lance Stephenson for one of the over paid Nets players they're aggressively trying to dump, then there's no way anyone was trading for Smith. He was untradeable. SVG made the right move and their recent play has proven that. And if Smith leaving means Munroe stays after he made it clear he wanted out? It's arguably the best move of the year.


When Josh Smith is jacking up 3's and shooting the Rockets out of a series in round 1 of the playoffs I think there's a few posters who will finally understand why Smith was cut.


----------



## bball2223

Mrs. Thang said:


> Are we sure Monroe wasn't offered a max extension? He seemed pretty unkeen about signing on to play with Smith for at least two more years.
> 
> Cutting Smith also gives the Piston's 8 extra million in cap room this summer. They can give Monroe a max deal and then still throw near max money at Draymond Green or Jimmy Butler or whoever else they want. It's hard to argue SVG made the wrong move when the team got better, they got more flexibility in the summer, and the young players they are supposed to be developing now get to touch the ball.
> 
> Didn't Wojnarowski just get outed for exchanging puff pieces for information? I wonder what Josh Smith's agent had to do in exchange for this one.












Glad I'm not the only one who could see through the crippling mistake of not adding Jason Thompson/Carl Landry in order to see the benefits of cutting Smith did quite a number for the franchise.


----------



## R-Star

If I'm admitting mistakes I thought Jason Thompson would turn into and 10 and 10 big with solid defense.

Nope........ wrong again.


----------



## ATLien

THis thread took a weird turn. Not unlike Josh Smith, lot of bitching and crying going on.


----------



## R-Star

ATLien said:


> THis thread took a weird turn. Not unlike Josh Smith, lot of bitching and crying going on.


Don't criticize me for putting Seifer in his place. The guys a ****ing hack. I was doing posters like yourself a personal favour by smacking him around.


----------



## seifer0406

R-Star said:


> Talk shit after the fact? You seem to be trying to change the narrative here. Would you like me to quote both posts where I said the Raptors should keep Demar, and my post saying Lowry was the whipping boy and I thought he would walk if they kept him?
> 
> Just asking. Because I've already looked up both posts today. Do you want me to put them in this thread? Because your little "Ohhhh! R-Star ****ing knows everything huh!!!!" child like rant would look even more laughable.
> 
> Am I always right? Not even close. I'm not sure how that at all relates to your "Oh! Look who should be taking Masai's job!"
> 
> You're just a ****ing horrible poster. You're doing this all wrong. I need to go pick a fight with Jamel or RWE. The best way I could describe you is unstimulating.


In the same thread where you wanted the Raptors to keep Demar, you also wanted the Raptors to keep Gay and Bargnani, which was laughable when you think about it. Your logic was simply not trade anyone even if the team was a perennial 30 win team. Try again R-Star. You got a lot of spin ahead of you if you want to convince anyone that you had insight to what the Raptors had.



> Am I always right? Not even close. I'm not sure how that at all relates to your "Oh! Look who should be taking Masai's job!"


Masai wanted Lowry out of town because he wanted to tank. You on the other hand is claiming that you knew that the Raptors would become one of the best teams in the East by keeping him. It's pretty obvious that you're full of shit though.

The bottom line is plenty of teams that were mediocre have tanked in the past as a way to rebuild. It's a legitimate method to building teams so I don't see what your point is. The Raptors at the time was headed to another season where they looked to barely miss the playoffs. As a Raptor fan I felt that the team would be better had they tore it apart and rebuild with Wiggins or Jabari Parker. Call that a ridiculous plan if you feel like it but that was the logic behind a lot of Raptor fans including the GM at the time.


----------



## R-Star

seifer0406 said:


> In the same thread where you wanted the Raptors to keep Demar, you also wanted the Raptors to keep Gay and Bargnani, which was laughable when you think about it. Your logic was simply not trade anyone even if the team was a perennial 30 win team. Try again R-Star. You got a lot of spin ahead of you if you want to convince anyone that you had insight to what the Raptors had.
> 
> 
> 
> Masai wanted Lowry out of town because he wanted to tank. *You on the other hand is claiming* that you knew that the Raptors would become one of the best teams in the East by keeping him. It's pretty obvious that you're full of shit though.
> 
> The bottom line is plenty of teams that were mediocre have tanked in the past as a way to rebuild. It's a legitimate method to building teams so I don't see what your point is. The Raptors at the time was headed to another season where they looked to barely miss the playoffs. As a Raptor fan I felt that the team would be better had they tore it apart and rebuild with Wiggins or Jabari Parker. Call that a ridiculous plan if you feel like it but that was the logic behind a lot of Raptor fans including the GM at the time.


Is I claiming that Seifer? Is I? 

If you want to quote where I said the Raptors should have kept Barnani, go right ahead. While you're at it quote the post where I said if the Raptors kept Lowry they would be one of the best teams in the East. No? Can't find those posts?

You're very shitty when trying to twists someones posts. I mean you're shitty at a lot of stuff, but you're especially shitty at that.


----------



## seifer0406

Mrs. Thang said:


> Are we sure Monroe wasn't offered a max extension? He seemed pretty unkeen about signing on to play with Smith for at least two more years.
> 
> Cutting Smith also gives the Piston's 8 extra million in cap room this summer. They can give Monroe a max deal and then still throw near max money at Draymond Green or Jimmy Butler or whoever else they want. It's hard to argue SVG made the wrong move when the team got better, they got more flexibility in the summer, and the young players they are supposed to be developing now get to touch the ball.
> 
> Didn't Wojnarowski just get outed for exchanging puff pieces for information? I wonder what Josh Smith's agent had to do in exchange for this one.


The Pistons only offered Monroe 5 year 60 million and like I said, if the goal was to retain Monroe from the very start then they wouldn't have benched him in favor of Josh Smith when the experiment of playing Smith/Drummond/Monroe together failed. It's obvious to me that the direction of the Pistons regarding Monroe have changed over the course of the past 4 months.

As for the cap situation I don't think cutting Smith is favorable at all. In the short term sure they've cleared more space next year but the fact is they will be 5 million short in terms of cap space all the way until 2020. Add on top to that the Pistons would've been a 8th seed or barely missing the playoffs had Jennings not been injured, the talent that they would've lost out for not being one of the worst teams in the league negates whatever free agent they might or might not get this off season.

As for the young players that the Pistons are developing, there is hardly any. The players that benefited most from Smith leaving other than Monroe were guys like Kyle Singler and Jonas Jerebko. These are hardly guys that you would consider developing because they are nothing more than role players.


----------



## seifer0406

R-Star said:


> Is I claiming that Seifer? Is I?
> 
> If you want to quote where I said the Raptors should have kept Barnani, go right ahead. While you're at it quote the post where I said if the Raptors kept Lowry they would be one of the best teams in the East. No? Can't find those posts?
> 
> You're very shitty when trying to twists someones posts. I mean you're shitty at a lot of stuff, but you're especially shitty at that.


Go read your own post in that thread where you knocked the fans for wanting Bargnani and Gay out of town because the fans just wanted a revolving door of "stars".

If your position isn't that you knew keeping Lowry would make the Raptors better than this matter becomes very simple. Your logic of not trading anyone with talent no matter how bad those talents fit is just flat out wrong.


----------



## Diable

e-monk said:


> someone is specifically writing that Josh Smith is a perfect fit with the Rockets -check the top of the thread
> 
> 
> meanwhile the Rockets were better off with Tarik Black than they are with Josh Smith - T/F? because the record says T



Woj is stroking one of his sources. It's probably Smith's agent dictating this story. Woj isn't really held to the same editorial standards as most writers. He gets all the scoops because he's connected and he's connected because he's willing to write shit just to make certain people look better. He's doing this as a favor to some guy who feeds him information.


----------



## R-Star

seifer0406 said:


> Go read your own post in that thread where you knocked the fans for wanting Bargnani and Gay out of town because the fans just wanted a revolving door of "stars".
> 
> If your position isn't that you knew keeping Lowry would make the Raptors better than this matter becomes very simple. *Your logic of not trading anyone with talent no matter how bad those talents fit is just flat out wrong.*


No, my point has been clear for years now. The point is _you_, as in you personally, have made threads every year saying the Raptors should trade their top player. When I've pointed that out like I did today you act like a spurned teenage girl.

It's pretty pathetic really.


----------



## R-Star

seifer0406 said:


> The Pistons only offered Monroe 5 year 60 million and like I said, if the goal was to retain Monroe from the very start then they wouldn't have benched him in favor of Josh Smith when the experiment of playing Smith/Drummond/Monroe together failed. It's obvious to me that the direction of the Pistons regarding Monroe have changed over the course of the past 4 months.
> 
> As for the cap situation I don't think cutting Smith is favorable at all. In the short term sure they've cleared more space next year but the fact is they will be 5 million short in terms of cap space all the way until 2020. Add on top to that the Pistons would've been a 8th seed or barely missing the playoffs had Jennings not been injured, the talent that they would've lost out for not being one of the worst teams in the league negates whatever free agent they might or might not get this off season.
> 
> As for the young players that the Pistons are developing, there is hardly any. The players that benefited most from Smith leaving other than Monroe were guys like Kyle Singler and Jonas Jerebko. These are hardly guys that you would consider developing because they are nothing more than role players.


*ATTENTION PISTONS FANS: SEIFER KNOWS MORE ABOUT YOUR TEAM THAN YOU DO. 

YOU ARE ALL WRONG! HE IS RIGHT!

THAT IS ALL....*


----------



## seifer0406

R-Star said:


> No, my point has been clear for years now. The point is _you_, as in you personally, have made threads every year saying the Raptors should trade their top player. When I've pointed that out like I did today you act like a spurned teenage girl.
> 
> It's pretty pathetic really.


And as I have shown, you would've been wrong 2 out of the 3 times in that thread because both Bargnani and Gay should have been traded. Look, I know you are desperate to be right about something for once. This type of shotgun approach is frankly pathetic way to do it. To say that a team should stay pat no matter what the situation is is just wrong.


----------



## R-Star

seifer0406 said:


> And as I have shown, you would've been wrong 2 out of the 3 times in that thread because both Bargnani and Gay should have been traded. Look, I know you are desperate to be right about something for once. This type of shotgun approach is frankly pathetic way to do it. To say that a team should stay pat no matter what the situation is is just wrong.


Again, because I see you must not have read it last time, I'd like you to quote where I said they should have kept Bargnani.

I'll be waiting.


----------



## seifer0406

R-Star said:


> Again, because I see you must not have read it last time, I'd like you to quote where I said they should have kept Bargnani.
> 
> I'll be waiting.





> Rudy Gay was traded because he was your star player and the whole fan base and media turned on him.
> 
> You got Novak, a 2016 first, and a slap in the face by Macus Camby for Barnani. Not very much return for a former 1st, is it?
> 
> And what happened with Bargnani? He was your star player, the fanbase turned on him, and he was given away for less then what he was worth.
> 
> Bosh left because.... the whole fanbase turned on him. Could he have still left anyways? Maybe. But he sure as hell was leaving when he started hearing boo's.
> 
> And what of Vince? Superstar of the franchise. Until the fanbase thought he wasn't dunking enough. They turned on him. They boo'd him. And he forced his way out. How's Alonzo Mourning treating you guys?
> 
> 
> By all means, turn on Derozan. It will skyrocket his trade value like it did for the past guys I mentioned.
> 
> 
> Pull your head out of your ass and deal with reality.


Great job on calling DeRozan's rise. Too bad you floundered on Bargnani and Gay. Like I said, if your approach is never trade anyone, you are bound to hit on some and miss on most. It's not worth my time to dissect every time you get a hit using this type of shotgun approach because frankly that's not much of a strategy to begin with.


----------



## seifer0406

btw, I know you are going to play the spin game now where you attempt to say that what you meant at the time was the Raptors should have traded these guys. The only problem is that would make you into a blabbering troll for knocking fans for wanting to do something that you apparently also wanted. So try again R-Star. When you're actually right about something I would congratulate you but until then keep reaching.


----------



## XxIrvingxX

Seifer and Kevin Garnett vs R-Star and Dwight Howard All Star weekend. Book it.


----------



## seifer0406

XxIrvingxX said:


> Seifer and Kevin Garnett vs R-Star and Dwight Howard All Star weekend. Book it.


I'm really tired of arguing with him as well. He really hit a new low with this Lowry thing. Trying to say something after the fact and claim credit is just embarrassing to see.


----------



## R-Star

seifer0406 said:


> btw, I know you are going to play the spin game now where you attempt to say that what you meant at the time was the Raptors should have traded these guys. The only problem is that would make you into a blabbering troll for knocking fans for wanting to do something that you apparently also wanted. So try again R-Star. When you're actually right about something I would congratulate you but until then keep reaching.


Huh? I said I didn't think Bargnani got much of a return and that he was one of many in the pattern of you wanting to trade Toronto's top players every year. 

Or are you saying that while you can't prove any of the things you're claiming that we should read between the lines of my posts?

Like honestly, I'm not asking for much. Is asking you to back up your claims that odd of a request?


----------



## R-Star

seifer0406 said:


> I'm really tired of arguing with him as well. He really hit a new low with this Lowry thing. Trying to say something after the fact and claim credit is just embarrassing to see.


Feel free to tell me what I was trying to claim credit for. To make it simple, just quote the post you find it in.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## R-Star

seifer0406 said:


> I'm really tired of arguing with him as well. He really hit a new low with this Lowry thing. Trying to say something after the fact and claim credit is just embarrassing to see.


I like this pairing. You two together. A tag team. 

It just works.

I don't know what's worse, the fact you replied like he was agreeing with you, or that you replied with something he wasn't at all talking about.


You're an odd duck.


----------



## seifer0406

R-Star said:


> Feel free to tell me what I was trying to claim credit for. To make it simple, just quote the post you find it in.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


So let me get this straight. You bumped a thread about trading Lowry to show that I was wrong about the direction that I wanted my team to take which is to trade Bargnani, trade Gay, trade Lowry, as well as mentioning that the Raptors should explore trade options for DeRozan. In that thread you knocked Raptor fans for wanting their "stars" traded even though you agree that Bargnani and Gay should be traded.

You're full of shit R-star. Either you were trolling then or you're trolling now. If you have no insight to the Lowry situation back then then why the **** are you bumping that thread now. I was wrong about Lowry and you were wrong about him as well. And don't try to say otherwise because you'll just end up contradicting yourself again.l


----------



## seifer0406

R-Star said:


> I like this pairing. You two together. A tag team.
> 
> It just works.
> 
> I don't know what's worse, the fact you replied like he was agreeing with you, or that you replied with something he wasn't at all talking about.
> 
> 
> You're an odd duck.


He's obviously tired of our debates and frankly so am I.

If it was up to me I wouldn't bother picking fights with you because you've shown to be a spinmaster whenever I call you out on stuff in the past. Bloody hell I wasted 3 pages trying to convince you that Perry Jones isn't a rotation player which was obvious to everybody but you.


----------



## R-Star

seifer0406 said:


> So let me get this straight. You bumped a thread about trading Lowry to show that I was wrong about the direction that I wanted my team to take which is to trade Bargnani, trade Gay, trade Lowry, as well as mentioning that the Raptors should explore trade options for DeRozan. In that thread you knocked Raptor fans for wanting their "stars" traded even though you agree that Bargnani and Gay should be traded.
> 
> You're full of shit R-star. Either you were trolling then or you're trolling now. If you have no insight to the Lowry situation back then then why the **** are you bumping that thread now. I was wrong about Lowry and you were wrong about him as well. And don't try to say otherwise because you'll just end up contradicting yourself again.l


What? Please elaborate on this contradiction. You seem to think you can just keep ranting and spouting nonsense and this will somehow pan out for you.

Let me guess, you don't want to post anymore. :laugh:


----------



## R-Star

seifer0406 said:


> He's obviously tired of our debates and frankly so am I.
> 
> If it was up to me I wouldn't bother picking fights with you because you've shown to be a spinmaster whenever I call you out on stuff in the past. Bloody hell I wasted 3 pages trying to convince you that Perry Jones isn't a rotation player which was obvious to everybody but you.


Was that before or after you didn't know who Reggie Jackson was?


----------



## seifer0406

R-Star said:


> What? Please elaborate on this contradiction. You seem to think you can just keep ranting and spouting nonsense and this will somehow pan out for you.
> 
> Let me guess, you don't want to post anymore. :laugh:


It's clear enough as it is. What part of it don't you understand. Either you agree that Lowry/Gay/Bargnani should be traded or you don't. If you agree that they should be traded then you were just trolling Raptor boards back then by knocking fans for wanting something that you also wanted. If you disagree about trading those 3 guys then you would be wrong about 2 of those trades. Either way you're an idiot for trying to claim credit after the fact.


----------



## seifer0406

R-Star said:


> Was that before or after you didn't know who Reggie Jackson was?


So how's Jeremy Lamb doing. I almost forgot about him because apparently in your mind the Thunder bench consists of the glorious trio of Jones/Lamb/Perkins.


----------



## seifer0406

Go ahead and continue this if you want. I'm going to watch the Super Bowl for now.


----------



## R-Star

seifer0406 said:


> So how's Jeremy Lamb doing. I almost forgot about him because apparently in your mind the Thunder bench consists of the glorious trio of Jones/Lamb/Perkins.


Lamb who's 22 and in his 3rd year is a write off? That's odd. 
Perkins who plays 20+ minutes a game for OKC?

Not to mention it was Jackson, Lamb, Jones, Perkins and a first for Lance Stephenson. That was your trade idea.

Did you forget that was your trade? Because it kind of seems like you're forgetting that.


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## R-Star

seifer0406 said:


> Go ahead and continue this if you want. I'm going to watch the Super Bowl for now.


Never saw that coming. 

When you get back feel free to quote all those things you accused me of writing, ok?


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## R-Star

seifer0406 said:


> It's clear enough as it is. What part of it don't you understand. Either you agree that Lowry/Gay/Bargnani should be traded or you don't. If you agree that they should be traded then you were just trolling Raptor boards back then by knocking fans for wanting something that you also wanted. If you disagree about trading those 3 guys then you would be wrong about 2 of those trades. Either way you're an idiot for trying to claim credit after the fact.


I find it absolutely hysterical that you are now trying to act like your master plan was to trade Bargs, acquire Lowry and Gay, trade Gay and then try to trade Lowry and end it off with trading Derozan.

I made fun of you for wanting to trade Lowry and Derozan and for some reason you keep bringing up Bargs and Gay like they were attached to your hypothetical deals for Iman Shumpert.


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## seifer0406

R-Star said:


> Lamb who's 22 and in his 3rd year is a write off? That's odd.
> Perkins who plays 20+ minutes a game for OKC?
> 
> Not to mention it was Jackson, Lamb, Jones, Perkins and a first for Lance Stephenson. That was your trade idea.
> 
> Did you forget that was your trade? Because it kind of seems like you're forgetting that.


Heres more of that spin I was talking about. It doesn't matter how old Lamb is. You thought Lamb and Jones were major contributors to OKC which again, they weren't. You would've known that had you knew anything at all about the team or the players.

As for Reggie Jackson I long ago rescinded from including him in that trade. I do find it funny that you refuse to let go of that as if that has anything to do with your lack of knowledge of the other players that I mentioned.

The funny thing about the trade that I proposed was that OKC actually ended up making a similar trade to acquire a similar player. The fact that they got Dion Waiters pretty much killed any of the "Ohh....OKC will not get anyone with questionable character because it'll hurt their chemistry" bs that you and some other dude were spewing.

Like I said, I'm still waiting for this spectacular Houston melt down that you predicted because of Josh Smith. I have a hunch that when that doesn't happen instead of admitting that you're wrong you'll just find some spin to save face.


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## seifer0406

R-Star said:


> I find it absolutely hysterical that you are now trying to act like your master plan was to trade Bargs, acquire Lowry and Gay, trade Gay and then try to trade Lowry and end it off with trading Derozan.
> 
> I made fun of you for wanting to trade Lowry and Derozan and for some reason you keep bringing up Bargs and Gay like they were attached to your hypothetical deals for Iman Shumpert.


I don't know what you're talking about. You're just spewing nonsense at this point. This "master plan" I had was to trade away our players so that the team can rebuild through the draft. That was the plan that Masai Ujiri wanted at the time as well. The only difference is Lowry's trade fell through and the trade that was meant as a tank move ended up improving the team.


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## R-Star

seifer0406 said:


> Heres more of that spin I was talking about. It doesn't matter how old Lamb is. You thought Lamb and Jones were major contributors to OKC which again, they weren't. You would've known that had you knew anything at all about the team or the players.
> 
> As for Reggie Jackson I long ago rescinded from including him in that trade. I do find it funny that you refuse to let go of that as if that has anything to do with your lack of knowledge of the other players that I mentioned.
> 
> The funny thing about the trade that I proposed was that OKC actually ended up making a similar trade to acquire a similar player. The fact that they got Dion Waiters pretty much killed any of the "Ohh....OKC will not get anyone with questionable character because it'll hurt their chemistry" bs that you and some other dude were spewing.
> 
> Like I said, I'm still waiting for this spectacular Houston melt down that you predicted because of Josh Smith. I have a hunch that when that doesn't happen instead of admitting that you're wrong you'll just find some spin to save face.


Can you quote the post where I predicted a "spectacular Houston meltdown"?

You keep telling me I wrote things that didn't happen.

Did I say Smith will hurt them in the playoffs? Sure did.


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## R-Star

seifer0406 said:


> I don't know what you're talking about. You're just spewing nonsense at this point. This "master plan" I had was to trade away our players so that the team can rebuild through the draft. That was the plan that Masai Ujiri wanted at the time as well. The only difference is Lowry's trade fell through and the trade that was meant as a tank move ended up improving the team.


So again, me asking you to quote what you've accused me of typing ends up with you confused? Not surprised, I'm a little confused as well hearing all these things I never even typed.


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## seifer0406

R-Star said:


> Can you quote the post where I predicted a "spectacular Houston meltdown"?
> 
> You keep telling me I wrote things that didn't happen.
> 
> Did I say Smith will hurt them in the playoffs? Sure did.





> Can't wait to see this. It's going to be hilarious to watch Houston go on a slide because an already shitty locker room gets even worse.





> Again, some people just have no concept of team chemistry.





> Again, people take chemistry far too lightly around here. If I had a team of fragile prima donnas like Dwight and Snaggle Tooth Harden I wouldn't want a cancer like Smith coming in, especially since hes best buddies with Dwight.


As well as the constant reminder that the trade isn't working everytime that Josh Smith had a bad game. That kind of stopped when Smith started playing better.

But anyway, are you going to say that you weren't implying that Smith will cause locker room problems which will lead to the Rockets losing games? Are we going to debate on the definition of spectacular meltdown in order to get you out of this the same way you tried to redefine the term bench player in order to get you out of that Perry Jones thing?

Go ahead.


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## R-Star

seifer0406 said:


> As well as the constant reminder that the trade isn't working everytime that Josh Smith had a bad game. That kind of stopped when Smith started playing better.
> 
> But anyway, are you going to say that you weren't implying that Smith will cause locker room problems which will lead to the Rockets losing games? Are we going to debate on the definition of spectacular meltdown in order to get you out of this the same way you tried to redefine the term bench player in order to get you out of that Perry Jones thing?
> 
> Go ahead.


Uhh... the Rockets have gone on slides with Smith. They are 13-8 with him. He went for 7 points on 27% shooting last game. He was promised a starter spot on the team and was quickly stripped of it and put on the bench.

Again, I asked you to quote where I said Smith would ruin the Rockets, and you post me saying he's a cancer. I find it odd that you elaborate on every one of my posts in your head. 

Can you find a post where I say anything like Smith will make them miss the playoffs? No? Then what are you even talking about Seifer?


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## seifer0406

R-Star said:


> Uhh... the Rockets have gone on slides with Smith. They are 13-8 with him. He went for 7 points on 27% shooting last game. He was promised a starter spot on the team and was quickly stripped of it and put on the bench.
> 
> Again, I asked you to quote where I said Smith would ruin the Rockets, and you post me saying he's a cancer. I find it odd that you elaborate on every one of my posts in your head.
> 
> Can you find a post where I say anything like Smith will make them miss the playoffs? No? Then what are you even talking about Seifer?


lol here we go with the spins.

The Rockets are sliding if you projected them to win 62 games. If you did then you're an idiot. The team got off to a start that they couldn't sustain. 

If you are pinning those losses on Smith then either you think it's because of Smith's chemistry issues or his on court performance. In either case you either aren't watching the Rockets or you're just trying to force this to fit your agenda. How does a player who is playing a diminished role off the bench become the deciding factor of the outcome of the game?  If you want to say that the Rockets are losing games because of Smith, it would actually make sense if Smith was actually on the court making that difference. Instead Smith is playing a bench role for the Rockets and is producing at a better rate than when he was with the Pistons. Still not a good player by any stretch but he is an improvement over Tarik Black when you look at them statistically.

Lastly when I said epic meltdown I wasn't referring to records specifically. I was referring to the locker room issues that Smith was suppose to cause. Weren't you the one that keeps saying chemistry chemistry every chance you get? So wheres this chemistry problem that you're talking about?


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## R-Star

seifer0406 said:


> lol here we go with the spins.
> 
> The Rockets are sliding if you projected them to win 62 games. If you did then you're an idiot. The team got off to a start that they couldn't sustain.
> 
> If you are pinning those losses on Smith then either you think it's because of Smith's chemistry issues or his on court performance. In either case you either aren't watching the Rockets or you're just trying to force this to fit your agenda. How does a player who is playing a diminished role off the bench become the deciding factor of the outcome of the game? If you want to say that the Rockets are losing games because of Smith, it would actually make sense if Smith was actually on the court making that difference. Instead Smith is playing a bench role for the Rockets and is producing at a better rate than when he was with the Pistons. Still not a good player by any stretch but he is an improvement over Tarik Black when you look at them statistically.
> 
> Lastly when I said epic meltdown I wasn't referring to records specifically. I was referring to the locker room issues that Smith was suppose to cause. Weren't you the one that keeps saying chemistry chemistry every chance you get? So wheres this chemistry problem that you're talking about?


What are you even talking about? You keep saying spin spin spin! Yet you turn me saying that Josh Smith will cause chemistry issues into an 8 page essay. 

Go back and read what you've been accusing me of saying, and then read my actual posts. You're losing your ****ing mind man.


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## seifer0406

R-Star said:


> What are you even talking about? You keep saying spin spin spin! Yet you turn me saying that Josh Smith will cause chemistry issues into an 8 page essay.
> 
> Go back and read what you've been accusing me of saying, and then read my actual posts. You're losing your ****ing mind man.


All I am saying is Josh Smith haven't caused any chemistry issues that have led to Houston losing games, which was what you predicted. You are trying to suggest that because Houston is no longer winning at a 75% pace (62 win pace) that they are now "sliding" which is ridiculous. You are suggesting that Josh Smith would be the reason why Houston loses those games because Josh Smith will be jacking up bad shots which again, makes no sense when you consider that he's playing a bench role and playing bench minutes and producing at a rate that was better than the bench player he replaced. And by the way, Josh Smith isn't making a fuss over the benching and causing distraction for the team.

As for hurting them in the playoffs I'll just wait until the playoffs to correct you on that as well. You've been wrong on pretty much anything you've predicted thus far and this is no exception.


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## R-Star

seifer0406 said:


> All I am saying is Josh Smith haven't caused any chemistry issues that have led to Houston losing games, which was what you predicted. You are trying to suggest that because Houston is no longer winning at a 75% pace (62 win pace) that they are now "sliding" which is ridiculous. You are suggesting that Josh Smith would be the reason why Houston loses those games because Josh Smith will be jacking up bad shots which again, makes no sense when you consider that he's playing a bench role and playing bench minutes and producing at a rate that was better than the bench player he replaced. And by the way, Josh Smith isn't making a fuss over the benching and causing distraction for the team.
> 
> As for hurting them in the playoffs I'll just wait until the playoffs to correct you on that as well. You've been wrong on pretty much anything you've predicted thus far and this is no exception.


:laugh:

Thank you for rescinding the majority of things you were claiming I said. It only took multiple pages.


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## RollWithEm




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## seifer0406

R-Star said:


> :laugh:
> 
> Thank you for rescinding the majority of things you were claiming I said. It only took multiple pages.


Well, I'm not going to argue with someone who's this delusional. You said what you said and if you're not going to own up to it I'm not here to force you.


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## R-Star

seifer0406 said:


> Well, I'm not going to argue with someone who's this delusional. You said what you said and if you're not going to own up to it I'm not here to force you.


Pardon? I've asked you to quote these random things you're saying and you've stammered around with "Well it's clear that you meant the Rockets would never win another game again with Josh Smith!"

Their last game by the way the they lost to the Pistons, he shot somewhere around 27% and jacked up 11 shots. But hey, he's just a bench guy as you say.

I like how if the Rockets end up doing better, you will claim it to be because of Smith, but since they're doing worse no one is allowed to bring it up because "Well clearly they couldn't sustain the pace they were at."


****. What a chump.


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## R-Star

RollWithEm said:


>


Clearly I'm the ****ing lion in that picture.

And no, R-Star the Lion will eat Seifer, not hug him.


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## rynobot

We need more potatoes


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## seifer0406

R-Star said:


> Pardon? I've asked you to quote these random things you're saying and you've stammered around with "Well it's clear that you meant the Rockets would never win another game again with Josh Smith!"
> 
> Their last game by the way the they lost to the Pistons, he shot somewhere around 27% and jacked up 11 shots. But hey, he's just a bench guy as you say.
> 
> I like how if the Rockets end up doing better, you will claim it to be because of Smith, but since they're doing worse no one is allowed to bring it up because "Well clearly they couldn't sustain the pace they were at."
> 
> 
> ****. What a chump.


And if the Rockets end up with locker room problems you wouldn't be here saying I told you so?

Just stop, you're full of shit.


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## R-Star

seifer0406 said:


> And if the Rockets end up with locker room problems you wouldn't be here saying I told you so?
> 
> Just stop, you're full of shit.


I already stated I expect locker room issues, so I'm not really sure what your point is.


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