# Jay Williams trade



## The_Franchise (Mar 30, 2003)

I started this thread in Bulls forum, initially I put up Moochie and Mobley for Jay Williams and their first round pick but Bulls fans were smart enough to shrug that off, but I think Sofoklis would be a nice PF for the Rockets. 

*
Cutino Mobley

for

Jay Williams
*




> Originally posted by <b>The Franchise</b>!
> 
> 
> Getting Jay Williams will be a stroke of luck for the Rockets. Steve Francis has struggled recently with his playmaking abilities, balancing that with his own scoring and trying to get Yao the ball, Griffin, Mobley etc. Francis at SG for half the game will get him 25 ppg. He is such an underrated scorer right now because of all he has to do. He really doesn't take many shots a game, most of points come from the free throw line. Jay Williams at PG would free up Francis and Mobley on the Bulls would be better for them since it would give them a perimeter threat other than Crawford.


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## Hollis (Jun 4, 2002)

Mobley for Jay? No thanks.


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## The_Franchise (Mar 30, 2003)

You don't see the opportunites it opens up for the Rockets, especially after they get Abdur Rahim for Griffin and Rice's expiring contract.


Read my quote above.


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## fryjol (Aug 13, 2002)

*No wayyyyyyyy*

But........... you have to realize that Jay Williams didn`t lost his starter place for his "good" performance. He hasn`t still proved that he can be an NBA pg. And worse for a team like the rockets, who are aiming for a playoff seed


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## The_Franchise (Mar 30, 2003)

Crap I wrote a huge essay about this and then I pressed Esc accidentally once or twice and it all got erased. damnit.

In short, the reason the Rockets are so weak is becasue of players like Mobley. He is the architect behinid there crumbling. How many inconsistent nights does he have? When he doesnt shoot well, he slacks off on defense. Sure he can guard Kobe for a day, and maybe put the breaks on Iverson, but he does nothing on certain days, and then on days when his offense doesn't go, he deicdes not to play defense. 

Rockets fans need to understand how great a scorer Francis is. He needs to be freed up at SG for 20 minutes a game just to score points for the Rockets. The Rockets really need a legit playmaker as well. Jay Williams suits this role perfectly, as he will have a relatively low salary all the way until 2007. I am also expecting this trade to happen during offseason:

*
Shareef Abdur Rahim

for

Glen Rice
Eddie Griffin
2004 first round pick
*

The rebuilding Hawks will definetly accept this if you need me to explain why then ask. With Yao and Shareef inside, Francis and Posey in the starting lineup, someone will have to fill the SG position because JWIll and Francis is too damn small for a backcourt. But that is why the Rockets have Bostjan Nachbar, TRADE BAIT! Maybe not, but read on.

Bottom line, Rockets are gonna make offseason moves. Hints are Griffin and Mobley are bait, and Rice's expiring contract looks nice for playoff contenders or for rebuilding teams. Shareef and Jay will really help add stability to Rockets and give them a great game flow. A perimeter player like Mobley will only be utilized during double teams inside on Yao. Whereas Francis, the franchise player, cannot be fully utilized as he has struggled to make things happen on a consistent basis and he really doesnt take that many shots a game at the PG, this responsibility weighs heavy on his shoulders. Mobley is not the player to help the Rockets go forward, and I am thinking would be a great addition to a Bulls team in need of a perimeter shooter, as well as how Williams game interfere's with Crawfords. that is not the case with Francis, need explanation on that?

With this lineup

PG Steve 
SG Posey
SF Morris/Nachbar/FA they pick up
PF Abdur Rahim
C Yao

transition
PG JWILL
SG Stevie

the Rockets will look pretty menacing.

True, Abdur Rahim is an uncertainty, but if Alexander and Dawson act aggresively enough, he can be obtained, EASILY. The only issue at hand is whether they want to trade Rice, the teams only veteran. Also on an emotional standpoint, he will be pissed at going to a team that is about to waste him for a year.


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## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>The Franchise</b>!
> Shareef and Jay will really help add stability to Rockets and give them a great game flow.
> 
> PG Steve
> ...


jay williams is just as inconsistent as mobley. williams shoots worse and is a worse defender than mobley. i really don't see why this would be a good trade. i wouldn't mind getting shareef, but i think the rockets would need to give up more than just rice(money wise) for it to work. with mo taylor, moochie, and cato taking up so much cap space, i don't think they would be able to keep posey. and the hawks probably wouldn't take a mo taylor or someone which would make the trade hard. 

i think the rockets would be best off if they could deal taylor and rice this offseason. add in griffin and morris if necessary and moochie if anyone wants him. they should try and get a pf. someone who is more of a post presence than griffin has been, but that can still hit some shots with a little range. but i'm not really sure who that person would be(this is just what i want, not what will probably happen).


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## The_Franchise (Mar 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>rocketeer</b>!
> 
> 
> jay williams is just as inconsistent as mobley. williams shoots worse and is a worse defender than mobley. i really don't see why this would be a good trade. i wouldn't mind getting shareef, but i think the rockets would need to give up more than just rice(money wise) for it to work. with mo taylor, moochie, and cato taking up so much cap space, i don't think they would be able to keep posey. and the hawks probably wouldn't take a mo taylor or someone which would make the trade hard.
> ...


Cutino Mobley is 28. Jay Williams is 22. We'll see how Williams is shooting a couple years from now. The Rockets SHOULD be able to resign Posey for maybe a 5 year, $23 million deal. I mean that could be wishful thinking, but its more than the 2.5 million he is getting right now. Still, since he is such a danger off the ball other teams may offer more. There is no possible way that Taylor can be dealt this season. Rockets can get the most if they deal Rice and Griffin, and maybe some throw ins. Nachbar cna be great trade bait as well. Steve Francis will be the man to hit those shots. Just give him a player that can run the game for half the game.


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## DanCaspi (Apr 18, 2003)

Check out this trade: 


Cuttino Mobley + James Posey

For

Jay Williams + Donyell Marshall


It seems pretty good for both teams - Chicago will get a good SG
for a very low price (anyway they want Crawford as PG) - Houston receives Williams who will help Francis and allow him to play 20-25 min as SG. Marshall is a good F - he is versatile and aggressive, he will be at least as good as Posey.

Chicago has Jalen Rose as SF and Posey is a good substitute.

What do you think?


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## The_Franchise (Mar 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>DanCaspi</b>!
> Check out this trade:
> 
> 
> ...


Oh no, this is a TERRIBLE TRADE!!! Posey is really developing to an offesnive threat and is an amazing of the ball defender, not to mention he is young. MARSHALL IS A DUD. No way he is near as good a defender as Posey and is definetly not what the Rockets want at this stage, another Mo Taylor type player. Bulls are looking to deal Crawford this summer, they'll stick with Williams.


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## digital jello (Jan 10, 2003)

I think Jay Williams would be OK with the Rockets. He could run the point, bump Francis to the 2 (which he is naturally). What about it?


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## The_Franchise (Mar 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>digital jello</b>!
> I think Jay Williams would be OK with the Rockets. He could run the point, bump Francis to the 2 (which he is naturally). What about it?


Yup pretty much what I said in short. But lets see if rockets can get him cheap. only problem is chicago is looking to shop crawford, not williams.


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## DanCaspi (Apr 18, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>The Franchise</b>!
> 
> 
> Oh no, this is a TERRIBLE TRADE!!! Posey is really developing to an offesnive threat and is an amazing of the ball defender, not to mention he is young. MARSHALL IS A DUD. No way he is near as good a defender as Posey and is definetly not what the Rockets want at this stage, another Mo Taylor type player. Bulls are looking to deal Crawford this summer, they'll stick with Williams.


HHHmmmm... Didn't you mean Stick with Crawford? because if they do plan to trade Crawford than it's great. Crawford and Francis on the offense is a killer gaurd combo...

About Posey, he did have some great games but not to concictant... Marshall has some great stats, he can give the rockets 2 years of good numbers. But if you say that Posey can develop his athlethic skills so of course younger is better...


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## The_Franchise (Mar 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>DanCaspi</b>!
> 
> 
> HHHmmmm... Didn't you mean Stick with Crawford? because if they do plan to trade Crawford than it's great. Crawford and Francis on the offense is a killer gaurd combo...
> ...


No no no, they won't just get rid of a hot commodity like Crawford for nothing. They'll package him with a burdensome contract like that of Eddie Robinson's. No way Crawford will come to Houston. No way Marshall will come to Houston either. 

Mobley's future is looking very very shaky. Thats Griffin, Mobley, Rice on the trading block, and nachbar. Moochie, if only we could waive that guy. USELESS. free up cap space to get a genuine playmaker.


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## DanCaspi (Apr 18, 2003)

Concidering all rumors and assumptions regarding changes in Houston next season, it seems like Posey is pretty stable, doesn't look like he is going to be traded - correct me if I'm wrong.

Does he have a contract for next season? or is he a F.A?


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## The_Franchise (Mar 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>DanCaspi</b>!
> Concidering all rumors and assumptions regarding changes in Houston next season, it seems like Posey is pretty stable, doesn't look like he is going to be traded - correct me if I'm wrong.
> 
> Does he have a contract for next season? or is he a F.A?


Oh yeah, don't forget the Rockets gave up a very promising forward in Kenny Thomas not only to dvelop Griffin but to bring a great defender, hustler and off the ball player to the team in Posey. He has a qualifying offer of $2.5 million for next year, and other teams will most likely propose higher trades. Only option is for Rockets to sign him to a 5 year contract, for maybe 4 m a year. The Rockets are way under the cap and Jason Collier will likely be cut from the team as his contract expires this season. With the healthy Shareef, Collier will get even less playing time than the 3 seconds per game he averaged. He is frustrated with the Rockets as well, the fact that he can't play. Well the fact that no white players play during games. Nachy is trade bait.


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## DanCaspi (Apr 18, 2003)

Tell that ro Jerry sloan - If i'm not mistaking, through all his time his utha - most players in the team were white, well, that's why he still doesn't have the ring 

(just kidding of course)


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## fryjol (Aug 13, 2002)

*no way- again*

How are we arguing for a trade that brings a guy that hasn´t anything to show.

Being honest, Mochie showed lot more last year without francis that Williams this year. I think you´re saying this because he brings the expectations of being from Duke. You want the trade now and the guy has nothing.


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## shazha (Nov 20, 2002)

how bout a moochie and posey for eric snow?? 

would the sixers do this?


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## fryjol (Aug 13, 2002)

*no*

I wouldn´t want to give up on posey the guy is young and is a great promise and e hell of rebounder


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## The_Franchise (Mar 30, 2003)

*Re: no way- again*



> Originally posted by <b>fryjol</b>!
> How are we arguing for a trade that brings a guy that hasn´t anything to show.
> 
> Being honest, Mochie showed lot more last year without francis that Williams this year. I think you´re saying this because he brings the expectations of being from Duke. You want the trade now and the guy has nothing.


Its not about hvaving a guy from Duke. Its about needing a playmaker. 

Shazha, no team would want Moochie Norris for what he is being paid, and no way the Sixers will give up Eric Snow. No way the Rockets will give up Posey either, he is a good fit for this young and restless team. Fryjol, posey is a hell of a defensive player, not sure why you said hell of a rebounder though.


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## Muffin (Feb 11, 2003)

Getting back to the actual thread title...

The Rockets don't want Jay Will or any other PG for that matter. I specifically remember when Francis was at the draft lottery last year, he said SEVERAL times "We don't need a PG". Jay Will to Houston will NEVER happen.


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## MiamiHeat03 (Mar 28, 2003)

how about taylor and mobley for eddie jones.


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## The_Franchise (Mar 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Muffin</b>!
> Getting back to the actual thread title...
> 
> The Rockets don't want Jay Will or any other PG for that matter. I specifically remember when Francis was at the draft lottery last year, he said SEVERAL times "We don't need a PG". Jay Will to Houston will NEVER happen.


Not JWill, but a ginobli-like playmaker is a PRIORITY FOR DAWSON.


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## Marcus13 (Jul 17, 2002)

Mobely for Jay? I would do it if I was the Bulls


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## hps (Jul 23, 2002)

I wouldn't trade Williams for Mobley if I'm the Bulls.

The Bulls need a tough, defensive SF who will be satisfied not taking alot of shots. This will complement Jalen Rose at SG.

If Mobley comes, Rose has to guard SF's, and there will be too few shots to go around, especially since they need to be feeding Curry.

Frankly, Jay Williams for James Posey makes more sense for the Bulls.


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## Muffin (Feb 11, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>hps</b>!
> Frankly, Jay Williams for James Posey makes more sense for the Bulls.


Jay for Posey!!!???  :upset: 

Are you crazy! That's the most upsurd thing I've read in this forum. :sigh:


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## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Muffin</b>!
> 
> 
> Jay for Posey!!!???  :upset:
> ...


i'm pretty sure that he means the bulls need more of a posey type player than they need a mobley type player. not that they would actually think about the trade. i really think the mobley for jay is a bad trade that doesn't really help either team.


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## Vintage (Nov 8, 2002)

Dont worry Rockets fans.


The Bulls aren't interested in Mobley for Williams either.


Go ahead and keep him.


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