# FBI investigating NBA official for fixing games



## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

http://www.nypost.com/seven/07202007/news/columnists/nba_in_a_fix_columnists_murray_weiss.htm



> THE FBI is investigating an NBA referee who allegedly was betting on basketball games - including ones he was officiating during the past two seasons - as part of an organized-crime probe in the Big Apple, The Post has learned.
> 
> The investigation, which began more than a year ago, is zeroing in on blockbuster allegations that the referee was making calls that affected the point spread to guarantee that he - and the hoods who had their hooks in him - cashed in on large bets.
> 
> ...


I don't normally like linking stories to the NYP, but this sounds like a pretty serious allegation.


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## ballistixxx (Jan 24, 2006)

fire him. and get more agents to investigate more refs.

at first i thought this was a joke


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## One on One (Dec 12, 2004)

The first guy that comes to mind is that old Mafia ref, maybe he is still connected somehow.


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## narrator (Feb 11, 2006)

This is catastrophic for the NBA, even if (somehow) it's not true.


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## different_13 (Aug 30, 2005)

Oh Christ - if this is true, you know fans are gonna be *****ing and moaning that their team should've made the playoffs, or had a higher seed, or actually won their series..

It's a bugger, obviously..


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

didn't this just happen in soccer like a year or two ago(I think it was like in germany or something like that). The ref admitted to fixing matches and said that there were several others around the league that were involved as well. I think he was somehow associatted with mafia...hopefully this case isn't as severe.


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## essbee (Oct 30, 2006)

*What i've said for years is probably the greatest source of NBA cheating..*

NBA refs..




> FBI probes allegations NBA ref bet on games he worked
> 
> ESPN.com news services
> 
> ...


http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2943095


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## ballocks (May 15, 2003)

hard to believe. i just don't understand how anyone would do this in the modern day. you'd have to really hate your job to actually go through with it, imo. it's one thing for people to talk about the _possibility_ of it- i don't doubt they would- it's quite another (imo) for someone to actually execute the act ("ok, let's see how we can get a few more points on the board for these guys... here's a chance... here's another, etc.").

fans and outsiders like to talk about something like this because it's always the convenient solution: "of course officials purposely change the outcomes of games!" it helps to turn the attention from the reality of the issue. but when fixing games to whatever extent they do is the reality of it, i can't say it doesn't surprise me a little. it's very strange to me when it happens.

peace


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

*Re: What i've said for years is probably the greatest source of NBA cheating..*

There's already a thread on this. (Just merged them)


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## Dean the Master (Feb 19, 2006)

I knew this kind of things is happening. No wonder there are all ways BS calls. Calls that are just ridiculously unbelievable.


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

I'm kind of surprised at all the people that are saying they expected this kind of this.

To me, this is absolutely mind-blowing. I *never *expected officials to actually _intentionally _alter the outcome of a game despite their consistently poor officiating.


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## Jizzy (Aug 24, 2005)

That pretty much stamps it right there. Football has it's own problems, baseball and steroids and now this for basketball.


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## Jizzy (Aug 24, 2005)

SO I'm guessing the 06 NBA Finals between the Heat and Mavs was rigged.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

I don't think this happens regularly. I think this is one person they are talking about. If this turns out to be true this is going to be a bigtime, major issue. Just imagine if they figure out exactly which games were bet on, especially if they were playoff games. All hell will break loose.

I am guessing Jack Nees.


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## BlakeJesus (Feb 1, 2006)

I bet it was that ***** that ejected Timmy D!


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## essbee (Oct 30, 2006)

Brandname said:


> I'm kind of surprised at all the people that are saying they expected this kind of this.
> 
> To me, this is absolutely mind-blowing. I *never *expected officials to actually _intentionally _alter the outcome of a game despite their consistently poor officiating.


What would make you think the same NBA refs who would scam the NBA for plane ticket money wouldn't shave a few points for cash? Especially if some of those guys are annoyed by the players who disrespect them on a regular basis and make millions more than them? It's impossible that all these calls that are SO over-the-top wrong are a simple matter of bad officiating. 

Also if the people who have said that NBA refs have never directly affected the outcome of a game want to step up now that'd be bueno.


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## essbee (Oct 30, 2006)

Jizzy said:


> SO I'm guessing the 06 NBA Finals between the Heat and Mavs was rigged.


I was thinking more the lakers/minny playoff series.


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## Carbo04 (Apr 15, 2005)

Figures. There had to be some sort of explination for why the officiating has been so terrible the past couple years.


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## ghoti (Jan 30, 2005)

Jizzy said:


> That pretty much stamps it right there. Football has it's own problems, baseball and steroids and now this for basketball.


This is far worse than any problem in any other sport.

If this story has creedence, it's a major catastrophe for Stern and the NBA.


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## essbee (Oct 30, 2006)

If those NBA refs wore suits on the way to games this'll sure put a big dent in that whole "hip hop and baggy pants are the source of crime" theory.


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## DuMa (Dec 25, 2004)

did the NBA just get worse or better?


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## Ruff Draft (Nov 21, 2004)

Wow, that is absolutely terrible. This is just what we needed.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

essbee said:


> If those NBA refs wore suits on the way to games this'll sure put a big dent in that whole "hip hop and baggy pants are the source of crime" theory.


Was just about to same the same thing.....So much for the whole bogut/image debate. This seems to really put everything into perspective.:whoknows:


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Well first of all, it says an NBA "official." If the Feds are looking at one person, big deal. The officials aren't infallible. Maybe one of them has a gambling problem (ala Sir Charles and MJ). If it's true, he will go to jail or receive a stiff penalty of some kind and hopefully no one would be stupid enough to follow in his footsteps and do the same. 

It happened to Stevin Smith at Arizona State, when he was point shaving. Effectively ruined his basketball career and he had to go to prison for a little bit. 

I also don't think this means that the games were "fixed." However, I would not be surprised if the fixing in question was rather the point spread. I.e. if a team is winning a game in the regular season by 12, but the point spread is ten. All you have to do is call two cheap calls and you have covered the spread effectively. Now, if it was rigging playoff games, that would be bad.

Still if it's only one guy, I can't kill the league over it. It was a two year investigation after all.


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## essbee (Oct 30, 2006)

Power_Ballin said:


> Was just about to same the same thing.....So much for the whole bogut/image debate. This seems to really put everything into perspective.:whoknows:


I'm sure we'll have all the "suits = class, hip hop = criminals" people come in any second now and explain themselves. Or at the very least they're working hard right now to find wu tang's involvement in this tragic story.


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## thatsnotgross (Dec 4, 2006)

Here we go again esbee with another stupid quotes about why he thinks that there is more discrimination than 50 years ago. 

So let me get this straight... people who whines about Michael Vicks torturing dogs is laughable because we eat animals that are killed in the matter of what Vicks do with dogs.

But a referee who fixes games is not?

Whats the difference in both of these analogies? If both are convicted and found guilty they should be sent to jail.

Or should i pull an esbeeologist theory, "well why should we be angry about fixing games?!?!?! WE ALL BET on games, we all went to a casino".

So in your perspective, we shouldn't be angry about fixing games because we all gamble one way or another. If not then this just adds more to the fuel of your debates.


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## essbee (Oct 30, 2006)

thatsnotgross said:


> Here we go again esbee with another stupid quotes about why he thinks that there is more discrimination than 50 years ago.


'Another' and 'quotes' don't match, another indicates singular in this case, and quotes indicates plural.



> So let me get this straight... people who whines about Michael Vicks torturing dogs is laughable because we eat animals that are killed in the matter of what Vicks do with dogs.


'People' and 'whines' dont' match here. It should say "people who whine." Also there's only one Michael Vick, unless you are talking about "his" torturing dogs which in this case would be written as "Michael Vick's."



> But a referee who fixes games is not?
> 
> Whats the difference in both of these analogies? If both are convicted and found guilty they should be sent to jail.


Those are not analogies... those are examples, or cases. Please use a dictionary and look up the word analogy, which much like irony and most of the language you don't seem to understand.



> Or should i pull an esbeeologist theory, "well why should we be angry about fixing games?!?!?! WE ALL BET on games, we all went to a casino".
> 
> So in your perspective, we shouldn't be angry about fixing games because we all gamble one way or another. If not then this just adds more to the fuel of your debates.


This is interesting. Do you have any evidence that we all go to casinos? You for example clearly aren't old enough to go to casinos.. or drive a car.. or walk to the bus stop unsupervised.


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## thatsnotgross (Dec 4, 2006)

Thanks for fixing my grammar, since this is my second language... appreciated. But you know that your debate is dead when you have to become the spelling and grammar cop.

Esbeeism keeps adding... you nitpick on who is good and who is bad. You want equal rights for certain groups but condemn another. 

Tell me what is the difference between a crime and a crime? Michael Vick's torturing of dogs should not be scrutinized by people who eat meat. Yet, this referee who is fixing games should be condemn? Why shouldn't he get the same treatment you are giving Michael Vick? I'm sure many people have gone to casinos or illegally bet in their offices. 

Since we all don't go to casinos can you also prove that we all eat meat? If you want to get detail then we will get detail with our wordings. Since we all need some sort of fine print on every post we make, I guess I should be more clearer.

Do you remotely get what I'm saying or do you just personally attack someone instead of the post itself? Maybe you are just running in circles.

If this referee is guilty as well as Vick, why shouldn't we be mad about both of them at the same level?


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## LineOFire (Apr 20, 2004)

Horrible for the NBA if this turns out to be true. Here comes the stream of fans that think their team got screwed.


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

Anyone have an idea who the article is referring to? The guy who has been totally eratic with his calls from night to night that i have noticed is Joey Crawford but i'm only bringing that name up, it could be anyone, or it could be all BS.


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## essbee (Oct 30, 2006)

yakov smirnov said:


> Thanks for fixing my grammar, since this is my second language... appreciated. But you know that your debate is dead when you have to become the spelling and grammar cop.


No, there isn't an actual debate. You're just in here whining about nothing because I've offended your homosexuality or whatever. I'm just tired of ESL students pretending like they're saying anything and not realizing why they sound silly.



> Esbeeism keeps adding... you nitpick on who is good and who is bad. You want equal rights for certain groups but condemn another.


hahahahaha. I imagine you stomping across the room like Lucy from Peanuts when you wrote that.



> Tell me what is the difference between a crime and a crime? Michael Vick's torturing of dogs should not be scrutinized by people who eat meat. Yet, this referee who is fixing games should be condemn?


The word is condemned, not condemn. Difference between crimes is severity. That's why different crimes carry different sentences. You don't read much, do you?



> Why shouldn't he get the same treatment you are giving Michael Vick? I'm sure many people have gone to casinos or illegally bet in their offices.


What treatment is that? Also you didn't say many, you said 'all'. You should have someone who speaks English proof-read your posts.



> Since we all don't go to casinos can you also prove that we all eat meat? If you want to get detail then we will get detail with our wordings. Since we all need some sort of fine print on every post we make, I guess I should be more clearer.


'More clearer' is redundant, since clearer itself means more clear. And the issue was not that all people ate meat, it was that people who did eat meat... nevermind just learn to speak and read English first before we continue.



> Do you remotely get what I'm saying or do you just personally attack someone instead of the post itself? Maybe you are just running in circles.


This is hilarious, since every post you make has you chasing me around like a puppy -- trying to complain about entirely separate threads and ignoring the actual topics being discussed. Be careful I'm feeling Vickish.


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## essbee (Oct 30, 2006)

rainman said:


> Anyone have an idea who the article is referring to? The guy who has been totally eratic with his calls from night to night that i have noticed is Joey Crawford but i'm only bringing that name up, it could be anyone, or it could be all BS.


Hopefully it's violet palmer. I mean she can't be that bad on accident and keep her job... although the NBA does still support the WNBA so who knows.


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## One on One (Dec 12, 2004)

Lakers/Kings Game 6, if that wasn't fixed, I don't know what was other than every Wizards loss


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## essbee (Oct 30, 2006)

i'm looking for pics from the twolves/lakers game.



One on One said:


> Lakers/Kings Game 6, if that wasn't fixed, I don't know what was other than every Wizards loss


What role do you feel hip hop played in this scandal?


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## Jizzy (Aug 24, 2005)

I guarantee every team that gets eliminated in the playoffs will have a "We got screwed" thread up and running by there fanbase.


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## O2K (Nov 19, 2002)

wow, what about mavs fans. I'm sure 
their heads are exploding about right now.

*cue mark cuban blog*


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## Husstla (Nov 5, 2006)

Joey Crawford. I would be surprised if its someone else


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## One on One (Dec 12, 2004)

Jizzy said:


> I guarantee every team that gets eliminated in the playoffs will have a "We got screwed" thread up and running by there fanbase.


damn right!


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## Jizzy (Aug 24, 2005)

This is a South Jersey fix, BTW. One of the few refs with close Jersey ties is Dick Bavetta.


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## thatsnotgross (Dec 4, 2006)

Actually it was you that brought it up with the hip hop vs. suit argument. Is that a black vs. white stereotype? Did you just pull a Bogut?

Again, keep attacking personally. My english isn't great but the sense that you need to proofread my work is just getting you to the point where you have absoutely nothing to back up your statements.

And no, I'm not gay since you think I am. Do you think someone who protects gays is a homosexual? I'm just pointing out the fact that you are picking who should be condemned (thanks for the proofread).

In my view, if the referee is convicted, then he should go to jail. I don't view this as a "suit" vs. "hip hop" argument. Anyone who does any wrongdoing that affects others should be punish.


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## Husstla (Nov 5, 2006)

O2K said:


> wow, what about mavs fans. I'm their heads are exploding about right now.
> 
> *cue mark cuban blog*


Well, I didn't see THAT many bad calls in that series. But I'm still sure the Mavs fan will go crazy when they hear this and use it as an excuse to losing to the Warriors.


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## thatsnotgross (Dec 4, 2006)

Jizzy said:


> This is a South Jersey fix, BTW. One of the few refs with close Jersey ties is Dick Bavetta.


Hmm, I thought Bavetta is from Brooklyn. I think he lives somewhere else now.


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## Jizzy (Aug 24, 2005)

thatsnotgross said:


> Hmm, I thought Bavetta is from Brooklyn. I think he lives somewhere else now.



No, actually, I think he's from Jersey. If not, he's very close to the place. I beleive his 1500 or some crazy number of games officiated was in the Meadowlands in NJ when the Nets played the Knicks and he had his banquet there as well.


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## JoeD (Sep 2, 2004)

This does go beyond one official because none of us can even guess who the guy is. NBA officiating is so bad someone fixing games can blend right in without suspicion.


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## AUNDRE (Jul 11, 2005)

whats the differnence between the WWE and the NBA?





























at least the WWE will let you wear tights


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## thatsnotgross (Dec 4, 2006)

Jizzy said:


> No, actually, I think he's from Jersey. If not, he's very close to the place. I beleive his 1500 or some crazy number of games officiated was in the Meadowlands in NJ when the Nets played the Knicks and he had his banquet there as well.


I remember a HS referee in Brooklyn were saying that Bavetta was a Brooklyn boy. He may have moved out to Jersey. I would be shocked if it was Bavetta, the NBA holds him on a pedastal.

Also I would be shocked if it was Joey Crawford as well. If Stern knew about this and it was Crawford, then he wouldn't have reinstated him. The probe has been going for a year, how long do you think Stern has known?


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## essbee (Oct 30, 2006)

This all gets me thinking about Nader's letter about the clearly fixed Kings/Lakers game 6



> The Lakers shot 27 free throws in the fourth quarter and scored 16 of their final 18 points at the foul line. The letter also addresses an incident where Lakers guard Kobe Bryant elbowed opponent Mike Bibby in the nose. A foul was not called with less than 20 seconds remaining in the game.
> 
> ``Unless the NBA orders a review of this game's officiating, perceptions and suspicions, however presently absent any evidence, will abound,'' the letter said. ``A review that satisfies the fans' sense of fairness and deters future recurrences would be a salutary contribution to the public trust that the NBA badly needs.''


http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2002/s/2002/0605/1390908.html



> Nader Blasts NBA For Shoddy Officiating
> 
> In Kings/Lakers Game 6
> 
> ...



http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Articles/BacherNaderNBA.htm


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## sherwin (Mar 21, 2005)

This is huge. I believe it is Steve Javvie.


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## Chaos (Feb 25, 2005)

Husstla said:


> Well, I didn't see THAT many bad calls in that series. But I'm still sure the Mavs fan will go crazy when they hear this and use it as an *excuse to losing to the Warriors*.


I think it would more have to do with the Finals against the Heat. The officiating wasn't even close to the reason the Mavs lost to the Warriors. Imagine the field day Cuban will have *if* it comes out that this ref worked those Finals games.


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## essbee (Oct 30, 2006)

> As of presstime, 10 current or former NBA referees have been charged with filing false income tax returns. All have either resigned their positions or are on leave pending the outcome of their investigations. Former NBA referee Joe Crawford, who pleaded guilty in July to filing false income tax returns, will face sentencing Oct. 2. In this exclusive interview, Crawford discusses how the four-year investigation has taken its toll on him.



http://www.referee.com/sampleArticles/2001/SampleArticle0101/interviews/crawford/Crawfordtext.html


No word yet on who Joe Crawford's favorite emcees are. Efforting..


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## essbee (Oct 30, 2006)

Chaos said:


> I think it would more have to do with the Finals against the Heat. The officiating wasn't even close to the reason the Mavs lost to the Warriors. Imagine the field day Cuban will have *if* it comes out that this ref worked those Finals games.


i can't wait to read his blog..


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## MLKG (Aug 25, 2003)

I have $20 on Joe Derosa.


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## thatsnotgross (Dec 4, 2006)

I don't think a referee could fix a whole series. Individual games are more hidden then a whole series. I'm sure it was more spread out. If the mafia is dumb enough to bet on those internet gambling sites or even in Vegas then it can be easily traced. Any of the Gambino family can put a really large bet on certain games and connect the referee to it. I doubt they are that dumb and probably place their bets behind closed doors. 

One leakage of the refs name, that guy is done for. Guilty or not, the fans will be questioning every move.


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## JonMatrix (Apr 8, 2003)

Maybe it's Bavetta I wonder if he and Charles Barkley made a friendly wager on their race at the all star game this year?

But seriously, this is very, very bad for the league and gives some credence to those conspiracy theorists who have been claiming games are regularly fixed for years.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

I hate hearing about things like this. Damn referee.


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## hogey11 (Aug 30, 2002)

The word is that the official papers mention the referee's name as the initials B.S.

That leaves pretty much one ref.

The authorities say he basically had a gambling addiction, fell into debt, and owed some favors to the wrong people, which is how this all started. The Feds say they are nearly set to make some arrests, including the referee himself.

@ thatsnotgross:
Its not about fixing games, its about point shaving. A referee can distribute foul shots at the end of games to raise or lower the spread, ensuring that his bet wins that night. This is the issue.


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## myst (Feb 22, 2006)

Chaos said:


> I think it would more have to do with the Finals against the Heat. The officiating wasn't even close to the reason the Mavs lost to the Warriors. Imagine the field day Cuban will have *if* it comes out that this ref worked those Finals games.


Or you can just accept that your team is the biggest choke job of the century.


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## essbee (Oct 30, 2006)

hogey11 said:


> The word is that the official papers mention the referee's name as the initials B.S.


that would be hilarious, fans could start chanting his name instead of bull**** when a ref makes a terrible call.


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

MLKG said:


> I have $20 on Joe Derosa.


He'll take that bet if he can officiate it.


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## One on One (Dec 12, 2004)

http://www.covers.com/pageLoader/pa...ata/nba/referees/2006-2007/referee403897.html


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

So it WAS Bennett Salvatore huh? Well then it would make his two shameful displays in Dallas against the Warriors more interesting, that's for sure. Stephen Jackson should be trying to get his money back from being fined by Nellie in those two playoff games. He should be owed an apology.


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## MLKG (Aug 25, 2003)

HKF said:


> So it WAS Bennett Salvatore huh? Well then it would make his two shameful displays in Dallas against the Warriors more interesting, that's for sure. Stephen Jackson should be trying to get his money back from being fined by Nellie in those two playoff games. He should be owed an apology.


I don't know if I would believe that just yet.

I heard it's Jack Nies.

Am I the only one who thinks the NBA should release the officials name as soon as possible? It's going to have to come out soon and the speculation and rumours don't do the league a whole lot of good.


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## Chaos (Feb 25, 2005)

myst said:


> Or you can just accept that your team is the biggest choke job of the century.


Way to completely and totally miss the point. Good job.


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## One on One (Dec 12, 2004)

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpa.../Times Topics/Subjects/O/Officiating (Sports)



> The N.B.A. referee Bennett Salvatore has been sentenced to a year of probation, 150 hours of community service and fined $500 for his role in airline ticket fraud.


That was '93. Although I recall many refs were involved in that.


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## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

HKF said:


> So it WAS Bennett Salvatore huh? Well then it would make his two shameful displays in Dallas against the Warriors more interesting, that's for sure. Stephen Jackson should be trying to get his money back from being fined by Nellie in those two playoff games. He should be owed an apology.


It's sad because so many people sympathized with Jackson but still condemned him solely on the fact that they wanted to protect the ref. Funny how it turns out that the "thug" was the fat little man in loafers not the ball player.

I wonder how Mike Breen will spin this one: "It's a fast-paced game. It was a close call and despite the mob ties and illegal bet he had supporting the appearance that it was a bad call, the expert NBA official made the correct call."


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## RoddneyThaRippa (Jun 28, 2003)

adam said:


> It's sad because so many people sympathized with Jackson but still condemned him solely on the fact that they wanted to protect the ref. Funny how it turns out that the "thug" was the fat little man in loafers not the ball player.
> 
> I wonder how Mike Breen will spin this one: "It's a fast-paced game. It was a close call and despite the mob ties and illegal bet he had supporting the appearance that it was a bad call, the expert NBA official made the correct call."


lol, that's so true. Breen is a doormat. 


I just love this whole situation. I've been one of the few people on these boards that has constantly criticized the officiating, and this just adds to my case. Now I want to see all the fools that criticized me come clean, pending the investigation. 

The NBA is a joke of an organization. If Stern spent half of much energy on preserving the integrity of the game as he does managing the league's image and making money, it would be 100 times better. If this turns out to be true, this is a punch in the chest to all the NBA and Stern apologists.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

Here is part of an interview earlier this year with, Ronnie Nunn, Director of Officials. He breaks down how he responds to fans, argueing about make-up calls or preferential treatment for superstars?



> Nunn: "I think there is a base for that thinking because years ago -- and this is prior to my joining the staff in 1984 -- things lingered. *I think prior to '84 there was always the sense of a make-up call and sometimes it frankly was.* If there was a poor call by an official, the other official would find, let's say, a more by-the-book walk and he'd call it, which was probably valid but usually wasn't called because it didn't look that bad. It seemed that make-up calls went on to try to apply balance and equity.
> 
> "I think the idea of preferential treatment has always been around because once a player is profound in basketball, as soon as you have a profound player, that player can impact the team and the league. Once that happens, everybody else who doesn't have a player like that is very focused on all the things they think that player gets away with. I think that's always been around. *The reason that it looks preferential is that great players create situations that force you to have to blow the whistle for them because they maneuver very well; they fool their defenders very well; they do whatever they do very well.*
> 
> ...


I never did like that show "Making the call with Ronnie Nunn", it has now lost all credibility, in my eyes. It's sad, but it was always obvious that half of those calls were BS anyway, this news just confims it. And his philosophy is part of what makes it easy for a ref to possibly get away with fixing games. It sounds like it is acceptable for a ref to miss or blow a calls on one side as long as he makes up for it by calling a tick tack call the other way...? I dont know, I used to just think it was bad officiating, but now knowing the training that they go through....I could see how a ref could use that type of mindset to skew a few points or a key play here or there to favor one team just by saying he "messed up" one end. :whoknows:


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## One on One (Dec 12, 2004)

Well this is a huge story, but geez some of these media articles are way over the top:



> Now, the league can't just haughtily dismiss those charges because there could be something worse than anyone ever imagined: mob-controlled referees. Sooner than later, the charges will start to trickle out, possibly with the unseemly details of a referee caught up in the commissioner's worst nightmare. There have been some scandals through the years in the league, but nothing like this. Nothing close. Sooner than later, *all hell is going to break loose. The NBA will never be the same again.*


http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-referee072007&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

I really think if its 1 ref, people aren't gonna lost all faith in the league.


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## MLKG (Aug 25, 2003)

ESPN is saying it's Tim Donaghy.


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## ghoti (Jan 30, 2005)

One on One said:


> Well this is a huge story, but geez some of these media articles are way over the top:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think the article is understating it.


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## ghoti (Jan 30, 2005)

MLKG said:


> ESPN is saying it's Tim Donaghy.


Third in games over the spread.


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## MLKG (Aug 25, 2003)

The last game he officiated was May 4th: New Jersey/Toronto Game 6. New Jersey won 98-97.


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## hogey11 (Aug 30, 2002)

If the BS thing is true, It could also be Bill Spooner..... maybe.

I don't have a link for the B.S. stuff, so I could be completely off-base on this. I just read it on hoopshype, so I won't say anyone saying thats wrong is wrong. It could be.

*EDIT* I see the ESPN report now. I guess Salvatore is just a crap ref, after all.


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## CrookedJ (May 8, 2003)

MLKG said:


> The last game he officiated was May 4th: New Jersey/Toronto Game 6. New Jersey won 98-97.


Son of a ***** . . .it sure feels like crap to see your team lose a one point elinimation game, and then find out one of the refs was dirty.

Edit:


> NBA referee Tim Donaghy is under investigation by the FBI for allegations that he bet on games that he officiated over the past two seasons and that he made calls affecting the point spread in games, multiple sources told ESPN.
> 
> Donaghy, a 13-year veteran of the league, is aware of the investigation and resigned from the NBA recently.


http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2943095


----------



## MLKG (Aug 25, 2003)

Word coming out of the league office in New York is the FBI will be fined $500,000 for criticizing league officials.


----------



## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

hogey11 said:


> If the BS thing is true, It could also be Bill Spooner..... maybe.
> 
> I don't have a link for the B.S. stuff, so I could be completely off-base on this. I just read it on hoopshype, so I won't say anyone saying thats wrong is wrong. It could be.


It's already been reported that it was Tim Donaghy.


----------



## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

MLKG said:


> Word coming out of the league office in New York is the FBI will be fined $500,000 for criticizing league officials.


All right, I laughed at that one.


----------



## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

MLKG said:


> Word coming out of the league office in New York is the FBI will be fined $500,000 for criticizing league officials.


:lol:


----------



## I Own 2 Microwaves (May 30, 2007)

Basel57 said:


> It's already been reported that it was Tim Donaghy.



http://www.nba.com/games/20070512/PHXSAS/gameinfo.html

and look at what game he did :biggrin:


----------



## hogey11 (Aug 30, 2002)

MLKG said:


> Word coming out of the league office in New York is the FBI will be fined $500,000 for criticizing league officials.


Baaaa-zing.


----------



## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

MLKG said:


> Word coming out of the league office in New York is the FBI will be fined $500,000 for criticizing league officials.


I'm mad at myself for not thinking of this.


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## TiMVP2 (Jun 19, 2003)

whoever is gonna accuse the guy of fixing games is dumb, he fixed point spread as in he just made sure a team scored a little more/little less


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## nicklebee (Apr 18, 2005)

Isn't that fixing games? Fixing the outcome for one team to win. Most games come down to a close-call anyway. Having the ability to add a few points here or there is all that is needed.


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## ghoti (Jan 30, 2005)

MDIZZ said:


> whoever is gonna accuse the guy of fixing games is dumb, he fixed point spread as in he just made sure a team scored a little more/little less


???


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

MDIZZ said:


> whoever is gonna accuse the guy of fixing games is dumb, he fixed point spread as in he just made sure a team scored a little more/little less


You make it sound like it's no big deal.


----------



## essbee (Oct 30, 2006)

adam said:


> Funny how it turns out that the "thug" was the fat little man in loafers not the ball player.


It really is isn't it? I mean hip hop clothing contributes to so many crimes yet these guys probably listen to more Lawrence Welk than anything. Clearly we need to stop the influence of polka.


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## different_13 (Aug 30, 2005)

Even if no crimes were being committed, stopping polka is always a lofty goal


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## O2K (Nov 19, 2002)

MLKG said:


> Word coming out of the league office in New York is the FBI will be fined $500,000 for criticizing league officials.



i'm stealing this.


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## narrator (Feb 11, 2006)

MDIZZ said:


> whoever is gonna accuse the guy of fixing games is dumb, he fixed point spread as in he just made sure a team scored a little more/little less


That's fixing games. And intentionally affecting the outcome is a massive deal.

ESPN.com named Tim Donaghy, though I think that's old news here by now.


----------



## TiMVP2 (Jun 19, 2003)

He didn't fix the winner or the loser.... 

I just don't want people to take away the spurs championship and talk **** about how its fixed and ****


----------



## essbee (Oct 30, 2006)

So what was with the "initials BS" rumor?


----------



## One on One (Dec 12, 2004)

essbee said:


> So what was with the "initials BS" rumor?


It was BS


----------



## thatsnotgross (Dec 4, 2006)

Now that his name is out there... if he wasn't guilty, he will be crucified by fans at every game. His career is basically done.


----------



## IbizaXL (Sep 21, 2005)

thatsnotgross said:


> Now that his name is out there... if he wasn't guilty, he will be crucified by fans at every game. His career is basically done.


i hope he gets a good *** whoopin


----------



## One on One (Dec 12, 2004)

thatsnotgross said:


> Now that his name is out there... if he wasn't guilty, he will be crucified by fans at every game. His career is basically done.


It said he resigned already.


----------



## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

thatsnotgross said:


> Now that his name is out there... if he wasn't guilty, he will be crucified by fans at every game. His career is basically done.


He is done. He resigned from the NBA after his last playoff game.


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## handclap problematic (Nov 6, 2003)

As a nice Tim Donaghy side-note, he was the ref that Rasheed threatened outside of the Rose Garden loading dock a few years back. Rasheed was suspended for quite some time because of that. First of all, it makes me wonder if it really went down the way Tim said, because the league basically took his word of mouth that it happened. Secondly, I find it funny that Rasheed was basically threatening the mafia. Ouch.

prunetang


----------



## Roscoe Sheed (Jun 19, 2006)

handclap problematic said:


> As a nice Tim Donaghy side-note, he was the ref that Rasheed threatened outside of the Rose Garden loading dock a few years back. Rasheed was suspended for quite some time because of that. First of all, it makes me wonder if it really went down the way Tim said, because the league basically took his word of mouth that it happened. Secondly, I find it funny that Rasheed was basically threatening the mafia. Ouch.
> 
> prunetang


The reason why the NBA vilifies Sheed is because he speaks a bit too close to the truth about how crooked the league is

If you watch the games (I've watched nearly every Pistons game in the past 2 years), you'd realize that Sheed really only complains when there is an obviously bad call. It is a bit inconvenient for the league to have somebody pointing out how bad their officiating is all the time.


----------



## -33- (Aug 6, 2002)

Come on....

Sheed complains at almost every call that doesn't go his or his team's way


----------



## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Roscoe Sheed said:


> The reason why the NBA vilifies Sheed is because he speaks a bit too close to the truth about how crooked the league is
> 
> If you watch the games (I've watched nearly every Pistons game in the past 2 years), you'd realize that *Sheed really only complains when there is an obviously bad call.* It is a bit inconvenient for the league to have somebody pointing out how bad their officiating is all the time.


:lol:


----------



## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

essbee said:


> It really is isn't it? I mean hip hop clothing contributes to so many crimes yet these guys probably listen to more Lawrence Welk than anything. Clearly we need to stop the influence of polka.


Now, now, now. He's younger than I am, that means he was probably influenced more by bad 80s "hair metal". So clearly we need to stop the influence of Bon Jovi. :cheers:


----------



## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

You know I would have never guessed it was Donaghy, but he has always struck me as a ref who is very even keeled even in the way he hands out technicals. This must have been Vegas calling this one in, because the truth is, I don't think anyone would have really suggested him out of all of the officials.

At least now everyone won't slam the league. One ref doesn't mean everyone's a bad apple. That still doesn't mean that they shouldn't outlaw flopping. Sorry for the double negative.


----------



## Air Jordan 23 (Dec 12, 2006)

RoddneyThaRippa said:


> lol, that's so true. Breen is a doormat.
> 
> 
> I just love this whole situation. I've been one of the few people on these boards that has constantly criticized the officiating, and this just adds to my case. Now I want to see all the fools that criticized me come clean, pending the investigation.
> ...



Co-sign on that, brah.:clap2:


----------



## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

Nothing Stern or anyone else can do about this.


----------



## essbee (Oct 30, 2006)

ehmunro said:


> Now, now, now. He's younger than I am, that means he was probably influenced more by bad 80s "hair metal". So clearly we need to stop the influence of Bon Jovi. :cheers:


I'm always down to stop the spread of Twisted Sister.



Again though I'm still looking for all the anti-hip hop faction to explain how Donaghy was influenced by rap music. Don't be scurred.


----------



## The Enigma (May 10, 2003)

I would bet that this goes deeper than a lone rogue official. The pundits who congregate basketball message boards have typically ridiculed people who have suggested that something may be fishy in the NBA. It has been obvious for anyone paying close enough attention that something seemed funny. From McGrady hinting that the Mavs were robbed in the finals to Larry Brown giving actual statistics of his team’s win/loss record under a specific official. The signs have been there for anyone willing to look beyond the star worshipping mindset having been pushed by Stern for years now. 

This certainly cannot be good for the NBA. This is by far the most heinous accusation currently on the professional sports landscape. The idea that games can be fixed by the officials is a major blow to the integrity of the league. 

--------

On a side note: To back Larry Brown's claim, it would be interesting if someone looked up what the Detroit Pistons win/loss record has been in games officiated by Dan Crawford the past few seasons (the high loss percentage, particularly in the playoffs, is quite shocking).


----------



## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Probably because Dan Crawford didn't let Detroit get away with the football they were playing under Larry Brown.


----------



## Ron Mexico (Feb 14, 2004)

if it wasn't for Michael Vick and Barry Bonds this would probably be way bigger

NBA kinda lucked out ....


----------



## The Enigma (May 10, 2003)

HKF said:


> Probably because Dan Crawford didn't let Detroit get away with the football they were playing under Larry Brown.


Funny how the league changed its rules because of these types of complaints and cries about the Pistons style of play directly following their title run. Now there is a thread with individuals complaining about how the league is soft.

Is that not what the masses cried for?


----------



## The Enigma (May 10, 2003)

Ron Mexico said:


> if it wasn't for Michael Vick and Barry Bonds this would probably be way bigger
> 
> NBA kinda lucked out ....


This type of charge can lead to something far worse then the other two. While the other two are instances of individuals "possibly" cheating and or behaving badly this NBA corruption allegation has the potential to harm an entire league depending on how far up this may lead.

Records will be established and broken, players will come and go but the integrity of a league (particularly in terms of teams winning and losing) is not an easy thing to repair.


----------



## ElMarroAfamado (Nov 1, 2005)

this is really really bad.....and for those who mentioned that this would be a HUGE story if that MIke Vick n bonds stuff werent going on its 100% right
its going to be interesting to watch this play out


----------



## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

The Enigma said:


> Funny how the league changed its rules because of these types of complaints and cries about the Pistons style of play directly following their title run. Now there is a thread with individuals complaining about how the league is soft.
> 
> Is that not what the masses cried for?


No... The masses cried for fair play. The Pistons were getting away with the hard stuff, because they were the Pistons. They were the rough tough bad team, and the refs allowed them to get away with overly physical play, but when the other team reciprocated the rough play they blew the whistle. That was the issue. They were like Bruce Bowen, except as an entire team.


----------



## The Enigma (May 10, 2003)

Hibachi! said:


> No... The masses cried for fair play. The Pistons were getting away with the hard stuff, because they were the Pistons. They were the rough tough bad team, and the refs allowed them to get away with overly physical play, but when the other team reciprocated the rough play they blew the whistle. That was the issue. They were like Bruce Bowen, except as an entire team.


BS. 

The Pistons played tough man-to-man defense. They rarely gambled for steals instead focusing on denying open shots and funneling players to their shot blockers. They were not cheap shot artists nor did they play dirty. 

They were a tough team. 

Now the same people who cried about them holding teams under 70 and “hurting the game” are crying that the league is soft.

Some people live only to cry about something.


----------



## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

I think the worst part of this all for me personally will be reading people perpetuating their ridiculous conspiracy theories.


----------



## Jizzy (Aug 24, 2005)

Donaghy was fixing games for the mob. :lol:


----------



## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

HKF said:


> You know I would have never guessed it was Donaghy, but he has always struck me as a ref who is very even keeled even in the way he hands out technicals. This must have been Vegas calling this one in, because the truth is, I don't think anyone would have really suggested him out of all of the officials.


Yeah, when I saw the story the first two names that went through my head were Salvatore & Joey Crawford. But doing a google search after Donaghy's name got leaked it seems there were a lot of horse**** calls that I hadn't heard about. (Logically I should have known that it couldn't be Joey Crawford because he's way too flamboyant when he pulls his bull**** and hands a game to a team gift wrapped.)





essbee said:


> I'm always down to stop the spread of Twisted Sister.


Let's not stop there. Motley Crüe? Dead. Cinderella? Dead. Ratt, Poison, Warrant, Wasp, Winger? Dead. Let's kill all the pig****ers.


----------



## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

Bill Simmons called Donaghy out after the Sun-Spurs game 3 (which was a joke of a game but nobody knew just how phony).



> • Congratulations to Greg Willard, Tim Donaghy and Eddie F. Rush for giving us the most atrociously officiated game of the playoffs so far: Game 3 of the Suns-Spurs series. Bennett Salvatore, Tom Washington and Violet Palmer must have been outraged that they weren't involved in this mess. Good golly. Most of the calls favored the Spurs, but I don't even think the refs were biased -- they were so incompetent that there was no rhyme or reason to anything that was happening. Other than the latest call in NBA history (a shooting foul for Ginobili whistled three seconds after the play, when everyone was already running in the other direction), my favorite moment happened near the end, when the game was already over and they called a cheap bump on Bruce Bowen against Nash, so the cameras caught Mike D'Antoni (the most entertaining coach in the league if he's not getting calls) screaming sarcastically, "Why start now? Why bother?" What a travesty. Not since the cocaine era from 1978-1986 has the league faced a bigger ongoing issue than crappy officiating.


http://proxy.espn.go.com/espn/page2/blog/index?name=simmons&entryDate=20070514

This site offers several interesting news articles concerning Donaghy:

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-26-77/Open-season-on-Tim-Donaghy.html


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## o.iatlhawksfan (Mar 3, 2006)

It was Hawks games! Think about it, who gets ripped off by the ref the most the Hawks, and what team would you feel the safest doing it against...the Hawks, lets face it, nobody pays attention to the Hawks, it was probably them.


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## Husstla (Nov 5, 2006)

Anyone know if he was ref in any of the finals game in 06?


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## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

Husstla said:


> Anyone know if he was ref in any of the finals game in 06?


He wasn't.

(Zo really did win that ring. No mafia taint on it  )


----------



## o.iatlhawksfan (Mar 3, 2006)

Husstla said:


> Anyone know if he was ref in any of the finals game in 06?



I remember ESPN saying he never ref a finals game. It was Hawks game, I'm telling you!


----------



## The Enigma (May 10, 2003)

JNice said:


> I think the worst part of this all for me personally will be reading people perpetuating their ridiculous conspiracy theories.


When an individual is accused of conspiring with outside influences (the Mob) to alter the final outcome of games for their collaborative interests, that would de considered a conspiracy.

Perhaps its time to update the database…


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## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

o.iatlhawksfan said:


> I remember ESPN saying he never ref a finals game. It was Hawks game, I'm telling you!


He was also called into the league office for an interview because of his gambling but was allowed to remain employed. He also graduated from the same high school as Joey Crawford. Conceivably, Joey Crawford knew about this. I think that he was a little too smug during his exit. I bet he knew and that knowledge brought him satisfaction.

(Joey Crawford is scum. I will go to my grave believing Joey Crawford was corrupt.)


----------



## Eternal (Sep 7, 2005)

What a disgrace to the NBA...

This is going to be causing alot of problems, and the NBA refs are going to be watched even more carefully now, and everyone will be looking for any kind of calls to blame the refs for the game.


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## o.iatlhawksfan (Mar 3, 2006)

bad weeks for sports!


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## unbiasedopinions (Jan 26, 2007)

Husstla said:


> Anyone know if he was ref in any of the finals game in 06?



no he wasn't but,

Game 1: 17 Joe Crawford , #14 Joe DeRosa , #15 Bennett Salvatore 
Game 2: #26 Bob Delaney , #29 Steve Javie , #32 Eddie F. Rush 
Game 3: #43 Dan Crawford , #41 Ken Mauer , #35 Jack Nies 
Game 4: #27 **** Bavetta , #24 Mike Callahan , #7 Bernie Fryer 
Game 5: #17 Joe Crawford , #14 Joe DeRosa , #15 Bennett Salvatore 
Game 6: #43 Dan Crawford , #29 Steve Javie , #32 Eddie F. Rush


Donaghy, a baby-faced 40, is one of four NBA *referees to have graduated from Cardinal O'Hara high school in Philadelphia. The others are Joey Crawford, Mike Callahan and Ed Malloy*

he was good friends ( highschool alumni) with 2 of the refs who did work the nba finals and another one of them was Joeys brother. 

Why am I not surprised?


----------



## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

unbiasedopinions said:


> no he wasn't but,
> 
> Game 1: 17 Joe Crawford , #14 Joe DeRosa , #15 Bennett Salvatore
> Game 2: #26 Bob Delaney , #29 Steve Javie , #32 Eddie F. Rush
> ...


The refs suck.

HOWEVER, Dallas and Noringski are chokers...


----------



## unbiasedopinions (Jan 26, 2007)

adam said:


> The refs suck.
> 
> HOWEVER, Dallas and Noringski are chokers...



do solemnly swear, this 19th day of June, 2006 that I will never watch an NBA game again. Everyone is supposed to say what a great game that was with a straight face? At least the WWE has the grace to give you a wink. If watching a man in a flak jacket and thigh pads repeatedly throw himself into defenders to draw foul calls is what passes for "competition," or better yet watching said man hit layups because no one can breathe on him, I believe I can live without [it]. Why would anyone follow a "sport" that employs Dick Bavetta and Stu Jackson? All that was missing was David Stern running onto the court with a steel chair, ABC execs in tow. Bill Simmons, I name thee prophet. It went down exactly as you said it would.
-- James, Richmond, Virginia



Twenty-five free-throw attempts is nonsense, not even MJ would have gotten some of those foul calls. And I'm not just saying this because I'm a bitter Pistons fan. Sixty-year-old officials should not be officiating 20-something-year-old professional athletes.
-- Paul, Detroit, Mich.



Have you ever, I mean EVER, seen a guy get more calls than Wade in Game 5? As staggering as it is to even think it, much less say it out loud, this surpasses the level of calls Jordan used to get in the playoffs. Simply AMAZING. I am a die-hard NBA fan, and I understand and accept the whole "stars get calls" factor, but this is an insane new level. Every time Wade falls down (even if not touched) he gets a call. You called it in your preview, the refs were gonna give some games to Miami, and they did.
-- Jonathan, Raleigh, N.C.



Please admit to everyone that the treatment Dwyane Wade is receiving is absolutely absurd. The final play in Game 5 summed it up: He commits a backcourt violation, pushes off on Terry, then goes wildly to the bucket and gets bailed out on a phantom foul call. Is what the NBA has to do to create its star of the future? 
-- Mark, Chicago



I watch very little NBA basketball; however, as the playoffs have been playing out, I have found myself watching more and more games, becoming more interested. Then comes the Finals and I feel like I am watching pro wrestling, except I can fool myself into thinking those matches aren't fixed. At least it makes the NBA the easiest sport to gamble on.
-- Jeremy Louden, Cincinnati



I want to say something about Dwayne Wade, but I fear I may get called for a foul.
-- Warren, Ludington, Mich.



Unfortunately you were right that the NBA finals could come down to the officials. David Stern would rather choke to death on his own vomit than hand Mark Cuban the trophy. It's clear he instructed the refs to take an active interest in the outcomes of the games. Every time Wade drives the lane the refs call a foul on whoever is closest. 
-- Jeff, Baltimore



After witnessing the Game 5 debacle, I am absolutely convinced that Stern is trying to fix the Finals for D-Wade and the Heat. Stackhouse's suspension, Dirk's phantom foul in OT, and then Joey Crawford's inexplicable call for a Mavs timeout -- it all adds up too perfectly. This could be a conspiracy as far-reaching as Watergate. I can already imagine the inevitable ESPN movie, "All The Commissioner's Men," where a stubborn, upstart young sports columnist brings down Stern and the entire NBA hierarchy. So, Simmons, the only question is: Will you be our Bob Woodward? 
-- Robert P., Topeka, Kan.



All the comparisons between Wade and Jordan need to stop right now. There's no way Jordan would have gotten that call in the final seconds of Game 5.
-- Chris Richardson, Charleston, W.V.


*taken from espn website after the nba finals* non mavs fans by the way


----------



## Knick Killer (Jul 16, 2006)

Horrible news but in the end it might really help the NBA. Hold on...before you all bash me this is a wake-up call. David Stern will finally realize he has to do SOMETHING about the leagues officials. They will now watch every single officials every call very closely. They have to really, Donaghy has embarrassed the league and the officals of the NBA. I'm pretty sure David Stern will never let something like this happen again under his watch.


----------



## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

unbiasedopinions said:


> do solemnly swear, this 19th day of June, 2006 that I will never watch an NBA game again. Everyone is supposed to say what a great game that was with a straight face? At least the WWE has the grace to give you a wink. If watching a man in a flak jacket and thigh pads repeatedly throw himself into defenders to draw foul calls is what passes for "competition," or better yet watching said man hit layups because no one can breathe on him, I believe I can live without [it]. Why would anyone follow a "sport" that employs Dick Bavetta and Stu Jackson? All that was missing was David Stern running onto the court with a steel chair, ABC execs in tow. Bill Simmons, I name thee prophet. It went down exactly as you said it would.
> -- James, Richmond, Virginia
> 
> 
> ...


"I'm a Mavs fan. David Stern hates us. The refs are against us. Blah Blah Blah."
-unbiasedopinions, Texas


:lol: If you think that I'm going to read that wall of text you're funny.

Yes, because Tim Donaghy was dirty that explains why a series in which he didn't officiate and his "friends" games hurt Miami, explains why Dallas lost.

I guess that the refs also conspired against the Mavericks and caused them to lose in the first round to Dallas. They also conspired to NOT give a bogus foul call and cost San Antonio the game 7 victory in '06...oops.


----------



## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

The refs didn't cost Dallas a ship last year or get them ousted in the first round this year. They lost because they choked (although the Warriors whooped em).


----------



## unbiasedopinions (Jan 26, 2007)

adam said:


> "I'm a Mavs fan. David Stern hates us. The refs are against us. Blah Blah Blah."
> -unbiasedopinions, Texas
> 
> 
> ...



don't read it. no one is making you. but why quote it then? 

Didn't the heat lose in round 1? I mean swept badly? No close games? 

It's funny. The spurs mavs series had both teams shooting about the same amount of throws (spurs shot 10 more I believe)

not a whopping 50 plus throws like your team needed to win games.


----------



## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

unbiasedopinions said:


> don't read it. no one is making you. but why quote it then?


So that people know what I'm referencing. 



> Didn't the heat lose in round 1? I mean swept badly? No close games?


You betcha. And we didn't even need a dirty ref to do it.



> It's funny. The spurs mavs series had both teams shooting about the same amount of throws (spurs shot 10 more I believe)


Because two different teams are supposed to shoot the same number of free throws and that's the criteria for a successfully officiated game 



> not a whopping 50 plus throws like your team needed to win games.


Starting Adrian Griffin against Dwyane Wade might have been a mistake. Hindsight is always 20/20. The Mavs improved to starting Devean George...oops.

*sigh*
This is going nowhere. Stop hijacking a thread. None of this nonsense is related to Tim Donaghy. At least cry about games that he officiated before crying about the 2006 finals all over again.


----------



## unbiasedopinions (Jan 26, 2007)

HKF said:


> The refs didn't cost Dallas a ship last year or get them ousted in the first round this year. They lost because they choked (although the Warriors whooped em).



yep just like the bulls whooped the heat. what does that have to do with the topic at hand?

5 points decided 3 games. heat shot 50 more throws. *shrugs*


----------



## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

I thought the refs screwed the Mavs in the finals against the heat that was the worst officiating I've ever seen and I've seen MJ get ridiculous calls in his day playing against the Knicks in the playoffs. 

The free throws controlled the series. 

But i swear that Donaghy was the ref in a Wizards game this past season when a phantom call as time expired gave Arenas 2 free throws and sent the game to ot with the Wizards eventually winning.


----------



## unbiasedopinions (Jan 26, 2007)

adam said:


> So that people know what I'm referencing.
> 
> 
> You betcha. And we didn't even need a dirty ref to do it.
> ...



griffin was called for 13 fouls total in the nba finals. that's 2 a game. nice try though.

Nope but ONE PLAYER OUTSHOOTING AN ENTIRE TEAM IS BLATANT and even players like tmac went on the radio speaking on the finals being fixed making THIS TOPIC RELEVANT


----------



## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

unbiasedopinions said:


> yep just like the bulls whooped the heat. what does that have to do with the topic at hand?
> 
> 5 points decided 3 games. heat shot 50 more throws. *shrugs*


I wish that it was only 3 points deciding 3 games. That way when you and "the fellas" get together you can do a little gesture with 3 fingers from each hand and you would all know what you were talking about and then you could laugh and smile. It just doesn't work with 5 and 3.


----------



## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

unbiasedopinions said:


> griffin was called for 13 fouls total in the nba finals. that's 2 a game. nice try though.
> 
> Nope but ONE PLAYER OUTSHOOTING AN ENTIRE TEAM IS BLATANT and even players like tmac went on the radio speaking on the finals being fixed making THIS TOPIC RELEVANT


I guess letting dribble penetration from the perimeter and exposing your big men to foul trouble is not a way to give away free throws. That's brilliant basketball analysis.


----------



## unbiasedopinions (Jan 26, 2007)

jazzy1 said:


> I thought the refs screwed the Mavs in the finals against the heat that was the worst officiating I've ever seen and I've seen MJ get ridiculous calls in his day playing against the Knicks in the playoffs.
> 
> The free throws controlled the series.
> 
> But i swear that Donaghy was the ref in a Wizards game this past season when a phantom call as time expired gave Arenas 2 free throws and sent the game to ot with the Wizards eventually winning.


thanks for being honest. it also controlled the tempo and allowed a slower heat team to get back on d


----------



## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

unbiasedopinions said:


> thanks for being honest. it also controlled the tempo and allowed a slower heat team to get back on d


Damn right it did. It's called championship basketball. A little something played by recent champions like the Spurs, Heat, and Pistons. I wouldn't expect you to understand it.


----------



## unbiasedopinions (Jan 26, 2007)

adam said:


> I guess letting dribble penetration from the perimeter and exposing your big men to foul trouble is not a way to give away free throws. That's brilliant basketball analysis.



word the heat were called for 18 less fouls than the mavs but shot 50 more throws

compare that to the spurs being called for 19 less fouls than the mavs (7 game series) and shooting 12 more throws

It's not like duncan didn't have an all world series getting damp and diop in foul trouble. I dont know why he didnt shoot as many throws as wade did. :lol:


----------



## unbiasedopinions (Jan 26, 2007)

adam said:


> Damn right it did. It's called championship basketball. A little something played by recent champions like the Spurs, Heat, and Pistons. I wouldn't expect you to understand it.



spurs and pistons have won multiple ships and didn't get swept in round 1 the next year. don't put ya asterisk heat in the same category as those squads


----------



## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

unbiasedopinions said:


> word the heat were called for 18 less fouls than the mavs but shot 50 more throws
> 
> compare that to the spurs being called for 19 less fouls than the mavs (7 game series) and shooting 12 more throws
> 
> It's not like duncan didn't have an all world series getting damp and diop in foul trouble. I dont know why he didnt shoot as many throws as wade did. :lol:


The 2006 Spurs weren't champions silly goose. That means that they didn't play championship basketball. (sequitur?)

Intentionally fouling Shaq helped alot as well.


----------



## TiMVP2 (Jun 19, 2003)

heat dont deserve a ****ing asterisk, the mavs got karma'd.


----------



## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

unbiasedopinions said:


> spurs and pistons have won multiple ships and didn't get swept in round 1 the next year. don't put ya asterisk heat in the same category as those squads


The Showtime Lakers got swept in the first round following a finals victory. However, your logic is really interesting. Go on.


----------



## unbiasedopinions (Jan 26, 2007)

adam said:


> The 2006 Spurs weren't champions silly goose. That means that they didn't play championship basketball. (sequitur?)
> 
> Intentionally fouling Shaq helped alot as well.



did you say 06 spurs? NOPE 

mavs= 27 fouls a game against the spurs
spurs= 24 against the mavs


mavs 26 throws a game
spurs 26 throws a game



mavs- 27 fouls a game against the heat
heat- 24 fouls a game against the mavs

mavs 26 throws a game
heat 35 throws a game

blatant bs calls. lol


----------



## unbiasedopinions (Jan 26, 2007)

adam said:


> The Showtime Lakers got swept in the first round following a finals victory. However, your logic is really interesting. Go on.



they also won multiple championships (back to back) prior to that. Not one and done. That's not a true champion. and once again this discussion didn't involve the lakers

p.s

the showtime lakers were never swept in round 1


----------



## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

unbiasedopinions said:


> did you say 06 spurs? NOPE


I know that I didn't say 06 Spurs. You showed an 06 Spurs stat and I said that I mentioned champions so a non-champion 06 Spurs statistic does not follow. You can read the posts multiple times if you need to.



> mavs= 27 fouls a game against the spurs
> spurs= 24 against the mavs
> 
> 
> ...


We've been through this and now you're just going in circles. I never knew that the criteria for a successfully officiated game is that both teams shoot the same number of free throws. Because it's not like one team is superior and that is what we are testing to find and that the superior team will be harder to guard and by consequence shoot more free throws.


----------



## unbiasedopinions (Jan 26, 2007)

adam said:


> I know that I didn't say 06 Spurs. You showed an 06 Spurs stat and I said that I mentioned champions so a non champion 06 Spurs statistic does not follow. You can read the posts multiple times if you need to.
> 
> 
> 
> We've been through this and now you're just going in circles. I never knew that the criteria for a successfully officiated game is that both teams shoot the same number of free throws. Because it's not like one team is superior and that is what we are testing to find and that the superior team will be harder to guard and by consequence shoot more free throws.


that would make you bringing up the 06 spurs team irrelevant since they "werent champs" you were talking about previous and this years spurs team. Don't lie

And it's not like a post presence like Duncan shouldn't draw more fouls than a perimeter player should right? Duncan was Godly in that series.

The point of posting the fta was to show the bs in the calls. You can't convince me that wade is more "dominant" that duncan. 

Diop and Damp averaged 9 fouls a game defending him. 

The point is the discrepance on that amount of fouls shouldn't vary that much from series to series.

It'd be diff if the mavs were FOULING MORE. but they weren't. Yet every foul almost ended with wade going to the line but not the most dominant big man in the game today?

you got to be kidding me. LOL


----------



## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

unbiasedopinions said:


> that would make you bringing up the 06 spurs team irrelevant since they "werent champs" you were talking about previous and this years spurs team. Don't lie


"Who's on first?"

I didn't bring up the 06 spurs team. Find somebody (not a relative of _yours_ please) and have them read the replies to you.

I'm not even reading the rest of your post. I love the way you **** all over this thread. It's not like it is a major hotbed topic and a necessary thread to the discussion that people with more than 20 posts do on this board


----------



## unbiasedopinions (Jan 26, 2007)

adam said:


> "Who's on first?"
> 
> I didn't bring up the 06 spurs team. Find somebody (not a relative of _yours_ please) and have them read the replies to you.
> 
> I'm not even reading the rest of your post. I love the way you **** all over this thread. It's not like it is a major hotbed topic and a necessary thread to the discussion that people with more than 20 posts do on this board





adam said:


> The 2006 Spurs weren't champions silly goose. That means that they didn't play championship basketball. (sequitur?)
> 
> Intentionally fouling Shaq helped alot as well.


liar you brought them up. No you wont. cause you can't answer it

there's no way you can explain how a DOMINANT POST PLAYER's team draws just as many fouls on one team as the heat yet that translates into 10 more throws ON AVERAGE PER GAME for the heat.

AND THE STATS ARE REALLY really bad if you just look at games 3, 5 and 6

good night adam. it was nice winning this debate with you.

and yep this is relevant. I'm not the only person to bring this up.

First series that comes to mind when the refs are spoken on are THIS SERIES and the KINGS VS LAKERS back in 02 in the WCF


----------



## unbiasedopinions (Jan 26, 2007)

p.s I'm still waiting on you to tell me what year the showtime lakers got swept in round 1 after winning a ship


----------



## TiMVP2 (Jun 19, 2003)

lol, i like how ur name completely contradict your posts, joke account.


----------



## unbiasedopinions (Jan 26, 2007)

MDIZZ said:


> lol, i like how ur name completely contradict your posts, joke account.



how is what I"m saying biased? all backed with facts supporting it. 

really the name should have been unbiasedfacts.

He's dropping opinions with NO FACTS to back them up whatsoever. 

he even stated the lakers got swept in the playoffs after winning a ship. I asked him to show me where and he disappears *shrugs


----------



## RoddneyThaRippa (Jun 28, 2003)

I'll tell you what: if somehow this becomes an even bigger issue than it is now and it is revealed that other refs were involved in shady activity, I'm just gonna show out. I mean *show out*. I'm already about to dig up some old threads in which I got blasted for criticizing the officials in the NBA. I sure do hope it happens because no one will hear the end of it.


----------



## unbiasedopinions (Jan 26, 2007)

*Briefly: The NBA issued a statement Wednesday admitting two timing malfunctions in the final minute of Game 3. The initial error came with 45.3 seconds remaining, when the shot clock ran for an extra 2.5 seconds after a foul was called on Jason Terry. But the most critical came with 4.3 seconds left, as the clock continued to run for 0.9 seconds after Udonis Haslem was whistled for a foul on Dirk Nowitzki. The league cited a malfunction in the electronic device worn by one of the game officials for the problems. *

refs aint "see this" either


----------



## sonicFLAME6 (Dec 19, 2006)

unbiasedopinions said:


> *Briefly: The NBA issued a statement Wednesday admitting two timing malfunctions in the final minute of Game 3. The initial error came with 45.3 seconds remaining, when the shot clock ran for an extra 2.5 seconds after a foul was called on Jason Terry. But the most critical came with 4.3 seconds left, as the clock continued to run for 0.9 seconds after Udonis Haslem was whistled for a foul on Dirk Nowitzki. The league cited a malfunction in the electronic device worn by one of the game officials for the problems. *
> 
> refs aint "see this" either


repped, i'm with you on that heat mavs finals, it was just ridiculous what went on during that series.


----------



## unbiasedopinions (Jan 26, 2007)

word. game five points in the paint mavs 26. heat 28
game five 3 point attempts
mavs 19
heat 17
game five ft attempts
mavs 25
heat 49

game six
mavs points in hte paint 44
heats points in the paint 32
mavs 3 point attempts 5 for 22
heat 2 for 18
heat fta 37
mavs fta 23


----------



## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

I hate when posters who you've never seen find themselves on one thread to fuel an agenda. No one screwed the Mavs. They could have put it away in Game 3 and choked. Sports fans are always looking for something to blame other than their own teams.


----------



## TiMVP2 (Jun 19, 2003)

HKF said:


> I hate when posters who you've never seen find themselves on one thread to fuel an agenda. No one screwed the Mavs. They could have put it away in Game 3 and choked. Sports fans are always looking for something to blame other than their own teams.


rep


----------



## ghoti (Jan 30, 2005)

Ron Mexico said:


> if it wasn't for Michael Vick and Barry Bonds this would probably be way bigger
> 
> NBA kinda lucked out ....


Just wait.


----------



## unbiasedopinions (Jan 26, 2007)

HKF said:


> I hate when posters who you've never seen find themselves on one thread to fuel an agenda. No one screwed the Mavs. They could have put it away in Game 3 and choked. Sports fans are always looking for something to blame other than their own teams.



You got the facts in front of you. Sorry I don't read opinions give me some facts to refute what I posted. 

P.S

winning game 3 meant what? 3 to 0? Maybe you should learn how to count cause 3 wins don't - championship.

People seem to forget that the heat had a 10 point lead in that game as well.

Just because the mavs lost in game 3 does not excuse the horrid officiating and blatant bs calls allowed in games 5 and 6.


----------



## SlamJam (Nov 27, 2004)

HKF said:


> I hate when posters who you've never seen find themselves on one thread to fuel an agenda. No one screwed the Mavs. They could have put it away in Game 3 and choked. Sports fans are always looking for something to blame other than their own teams.


agreed. its pretty pathetic.


----------



## o.iatlhawksfan (Mar 3, 2006)

Why has repping become so popular, nobody cares about that these days. Not since they started that "post on this thread and get repped" thread.


----------



## different_13 (Aug 30, 2005)

The actual rep points themselves don't mean ****.
But saying a specific post is repped implies it was a well-thought out post.

I see it as a sign of respect due to post quality.

Or in the case of hilarious jokes, due to that.


----------



## unbiasedopinions (Jan 26, 2007)

SlamJam said:


> agreed. its pretty pathetic.



*Stern's statement said the FBI is investigating allegations a "single" referee bet on basketball. But the law enforcement official said other arrests are expected.*

you can go to covers.com and look at the 05/06 season and see how alot of officials tried to keep games close and had very "funny looking" over/under numbers. i don't feel like posting all of it


----------



## ElMarroAfamado (Nov 1, 2005)

all the conspiracy theorists are gonna have a field day with this, its kinda stupid but eh
next thing you know i blame this for the Clippers sucking all these years..


----------



## Mateo (Sep 23, 2006)

My first thought when I heard about this story:

All star weekend disaster + game-fixing ref = Vegas is on the outs with the NBA.


----------



## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

unbiasedopinions said:


> they also won multiple championships (back to back) prior to that. Not one and done. That's not a true champion.


Injuries have been known to derail teams. In all sports. Should every team that fails to succeed after winning a championship have an asterisk placed next to their names for "not being a true champion"?





unbiasedopinions said:


> p.s the showtime lakers were never swept in round 1


They did get their butts beaten bluer than a sulking Mavericks fan by the Rockets in the first round of the 1981 playoffs after winning the title in 1980. (Though as a best of three series Houston just needed to win two, something that even the Mavericks can generally accomplish, so it wasn't much of a feat.)


----------



## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

ElMarroAfamado said:


> all the conspiracy theorists are gonna have a field day with this, its kinda stupid but eh
> next thing you know i blame this for the Clippers sucking all these years..


If the Clippers had sucked like Alexandra Castro the Donald might have spent more money on them. :bsmile:


----------



## essbee (Oct 30, 2006)

RoddneyThaRippa said:


> I'll tell you what: if somehow this becomes an even bigger issue than it is now and it is revealed that other refs were involved in shady activity, I'm just gonna show out. I mean *show out*. I'm already about to dig up some old threads in which I got blasted for criticizing the officials in the NBA. I sure do hope it happens because no one will hear the end of it.


You should do it anyway. Where there's smoke there's fire, and all the people who stick up for the establishment like Bill Walton needed a story like this to wake up. 

The playoffs were especially bad where every time somebody made a post saying the officials were screwing up, two people jumped in and said refs don't determine the outcomes of games. Those same people will admit the NBA is a star league b/c basketball is the team sport where one player makes the biggest difference, so how hard is it to believe a ref could control a game by doing things like calling quick fouls?





And I'm still waiting for analysis on what role Donaghy's culture played in this crime since he didn't listen to hip hop.


----------



## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

ghoti said:


> Just wait.


Yeah, no kidding. Now they are saying Donaghy may call out other refs. Man, if he calls out 2-3 other refs this whole thing is going to blow up to monumental proportions.


----------



## sherwin (Mar 21, 2005)

The truth is nobody but us hardcore young fans take the NBA seriously anyways. They've positioned themselves as pure entertainment, not a game. Their real market: young boys and white collar rich people will continue to pour in their money to be entertained by the nba.


----------



## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

Mateo said:


> My first thought when I heard about this story:
> 
> All star weekend disaster + game-fixing ref = Vegas is on the outs with the NBA.


man, i never thought about that.


----------



## essbee (Oct 30, 2006)

JNice said:


> Yeah, no kidding. Now they are saying Donaghy may call out other refs. Man, if he calls out 2-3 other refs this whole thing is going to blow up to monumental proportions.


Yep this is great lmfao.

i'm gonna ask one more time, please will the people who say refs don't affect outcomes of games step up and give us their opinions, and please will the people who talk about hip hop determining crime rate step up and give us their opinions.

T'anks





> Report: Feds believe Donaghy may help
> FOXSports.com, Updated 29 minutes ago
> 
> 
> ...


link


----------



## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Well if Donaghy does name names, then Stern will have to revamp the officiating (including paying these guys more to keep this from happening). That would be a good thing. Making a uniform system for officiating is what I have been talking about for years. There shouldn't be ref crews who allow more contact then others. They need to all call it the same way. 

I am not surprised that officials in any sports would do this, because "greed" is a tough nut to crack.


----------



## RoddneyThaRippa (Jun 28, 2003)

This is going to get wild if other officials get implicated, and I really hope it happens. I've been saying on this board for years that the NBA is the worst officiated of all professional sports, to the chagrin of many here.

And damn, I'm going to absolutely show out if this turns out to be true. I'm flicking out the jab right now, waiting for an opportunity to land a big hook.


----------



## RoddneyThaRippa (Jun 28, 2003)

essbee said:


> And I'm still waiting for analysis on what role Donaghy's culture played in this crime since he didn't listen to hip hop.


Meh. Must have been an isolated incident. That's why I hope other officials were involved. I don't think Donaghy has been one of the five worst officials in the league, really.


----------



## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

Fruitcakes this big usually get passed around at Christmas time. This is the guy that the NBA was calling a "victim" in his encounter with 'Sheed? Did none of this raise some red flags at the league office? I mean, getting arrested for intentionally attempting to run someone off the road should at least call for a _little_ bit of investigation, shouldn't it? It's obvious that hair metal culture is a menace, and completely responsible for this situation.


----------



## essbee (Oct 30, 2006)

Twisted sister, thy day of reckoning is nigh. NIGH!


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## essbee (Oct 30, 2006)

Bill simmons



> Here's what I wrote after the third game -- the Spurs were favored by four, with an over/under of 200.5 -- after San Antonio prevailed, 108-101, thanks to Amare Stoudemire playing just 21 minutes because of foul trouble:
> 
> Congratulations to Greg Willard, Tim Donaghy and Eddie F. Rush for giving us the most atrociously officiated game of the playoffs so far: Game 3 of the Suns-Spurs series. Bennett Salvatore, Tom Washington and Violet Palmer must have been outraged that they weren't involved in this mess. Good golly. Most of the calls favored the Spurs, but I don't even think the refs were biased -- they were so incompetent that there was no rhyme or reason to anything that was happening. Other than the latest call in NBA history (a shooting foul for Manu Ginobili whistled three seconds after the play, when everyone was already running in the other direction), my favorite moment happened near the end, when the game was already over and they called a cheap bump on Bruce Bowen against Nash, so the cameras caught Mike D'Antoni (the most entertaining coach in the league if he's not getting calls) screaming sarcastically, "Why start now? Why bother?" What a travesty. Not since the cocaine era from 1978-1986 has the league faced a bigger ongoing issue than crappy officiating.
> 
> ...




link


----------



## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

Beautiful Post :clap2:


That whole series was a mess. Stern should've seen the signs.


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## essbee (Oct 30, 2006)

This is the youtube clip simmons is talkin' about, i didn't see the link in the article.

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/fvkKdXLwt0U"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/fvkKdXLwt0U" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>


----------



## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

essbee said:


> This is the youtube clip simmons is talkin' about, i didn't see the link in the article.
> 
> <object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/fvkKdXLwt0U"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/fvkKdXLwt0U" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>


What I see in that video is that Eddie F. Rush is an even worse official than the Twisted Sister groupie.

Even after Donaghy being outed, my ranking of the three worst officials in the NBA would be:

1. Violet Palmer
2. Eddie Rush
3. Tim Donaghy (He moved up and replaced Joey Crawford since the scandal)


----------



## JoeD (Sep 2, 2004)

The sad things is that the calls from the video are pretty typical.


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## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

JoeD said:


> The sad things is that the calls from the video are pretty typical.


Every game Violet Palmer has ever officiated should have:

*Officiated by Violet Palmer

When you have a ref fixing a game and he isn't even the worst ref on the floor during that time that's when you know the NBA has a problem.

I just realized, and it's something that I don't think people have noticed yet, Tim Donaghy can tell his fellow officials to look for certain things and say that certain players are trying to get away with certain things, in order to get the other officials to call the game the way he needs.


----------



## essbee (Oct 30, 2006)

adam said:


> What I see in that video is that Eddie F. Rush is an even worse official than the Twisted Sister groupie.
> 
> Even after Donaghy being outed, my ranking of the three worst officials in the NBA would be:
> 
> ...


She's far worse than donaghy i agree, and i actually still would put joey ahead of him.


----------



## Air Jordan 23 (Dec 12, 2006)

RoddneyThaRippa said:


> This is going to get wild if other officials get implicated, and I really hope it happens. I've been saying on this board for years that the NBA is the worst officiated of all professional sports, to the chagrin of many here.
> 
> And damn, I'm going to absolutely show out if this turns out to be true. I'm flicking out the jab right now, waiting for an opportunity to land a big hook.



And I'm ready to toss in the towel for the NBA when you do, Roddney.:cheers: 

Down goes Frazier! Down goes Frazier! Down goes Frazier!


----------



## DuMa (Dec 25, 2004)

essbee said:


> This is the youtube clip simmons is talkin' about, i didn't see the link in the article.
> 
> <object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/fvkKdXLwt0U"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/fvkKdXLwt0U" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>


thanks for bringing back bad memories. suns fans really do have something to whine about. those calls were attrocious


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## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

Here's the boxscore for the Knicks-Heat game that Simmons mentioned in the article essbee linked:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore;_ylt=AuWdYZQwyPMUP5M44vhRgUuQvLYF?gid=2007022618

Donaghy really screwed us. Five fouls in 22 minutes for Shaq? 39 Knicks FT's to 8 Heat FT's. What a league.:clap2:


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

Mavs-Heat
(Looks like Donaghy made this call.....??)
<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/fydhtOSlfW0"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/fydhtOSlfW0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/CZKGlHfukc4"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/CZKGlHfukc4" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/2RjmjejukO0"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/2RjmjejukO0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

This is how players should handle the poor officiating since stern ignores it......lol
<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/1GUqqGp28OI"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/1GUqqGp28OI" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>


----------



## essbee (Oct 30, 2006)

> Locally, Donaghy also had a run-in with the Lakers.
> 
> In April 2004, Lakers Coach Phil Jackson complained about two quick foul calls in an important late-season game against Sacramento in which Donaghy was one of the referees. Both calls were against then-Lakers center Shaquille O'Neal. O'Neal was largely ineffective in the game, which the Lakers lost, because of foul trouble and played 31 minutes, a low for him at the time.
> 
> ...


link

Those of us who live in cali probably remember that o'neal quote from fox sports post game coverage.


----------



## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

For the last time, give it a rest with the Mavs bull****. Donaghy did not referee in the NBA finals. The Mavs C-H-O-K-E-D. The fact that there's a crooked ref does not excuse Dallas from being a team of chokers.


----------



## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

essbee said:


> link
> 
> Those of us who live in cali probably remember that o'neal quote from fox sports post game coverage.


Was that the game where Shaq said during a Jim Gray interview at halftime, 'the refs want to take over the ****ing game' on live t.v.? If it wasn't I wonder if Donaghy reffed that game too.


----------



## essbee (Oct 30, 2006)

> Donaghy lived in the Philadelphia area until neighbors in West Chester accused him of harassment and invasion of privacy. In a lawsuit, neighbors accused Donaghy of stalking and vandalizing their property. Donaghy sold his home in 2005 and moved to Florida.
> 
> According to the New York Post, Donaghy has a gambling problem and fell into debt while living on the East Coast.


Also as an aside, I miss the periods in the 60's and 70's when there were real personalities in sports and they would offer real opinions instead of worrying about sponsorship deals all the time.



> LeBron James, who is attending the Team USA training camp in Las Vegas, reacted to the situation.
> 
> "I think the NBA is going to take care of that," said James. "We'll see what happens. It's out of my hands. The NBA is taking full advantage of it. They're taking this precaution. The NBA is going over everything that might be going on with the allegations. As a player, we'll see what happens. We don't want to get involved in it. I think the NBA is doing a great job and the commissioner is doing everything he can to try and make it right."


link


----------



## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

Stern is in a big massive pile of **** right now. It's been long suspected that refs were purposefully fixing games, but now the evidence looks pretty conclusive. Someone told me that he's also willing to name names of perhaps other refs who are in the business with him to lighten a possible sentence. Although, I can't ocnfirm if that one is true. I hope it is though, because the whole officiating system needs to be COMPLETELY overhauled.


----------



## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

Power_Ballin said:


> Mavs-Heat
> This is how players should handle the poor officiating since stern ignores it......lol
> <object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/1GUqqGp28OI"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/1GUqqGp28OI" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>


Um... No...


----------



## Roscoe Sheed (Jun 19, 2006)

adam said:


> For the last time, give it a rest with the Mavs bull****. Donaghy did not referee in the NBA finals. The Mavs C-H-O-K-E-D. The fact that there's a crooked ref does not excuse Dallas from being a team of chokers.


Only Heat fans believe this

you know that don't know you?


----------



## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

Roscoe Sheed said:


> Only Heat fans believe this
> 
> you know that don't know you?


You don't know the difference between fact and opinion

you know that don't know you?[sic]



Roscoe Sheed said:


> The reason why the NBA vilifies Sheed is because he speaks a bit too close to the truth about how crooked the league is
> 
> If you watch the games (I've watched nearly every Pistons game in the past 2 years), you'd realize that Sheed really only complains when there is an obviously bad call. It is a bit inconvenient for the league to have somebody pointing out how bad their officiating is all the time.


Also, you really fail at posting.


----------



## Hail Yinka (Jul 3, 2006)

told yall the nba is fixed


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

The NBA's new read-to-achieve program.


----------



## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

Sorry, futuristxen.



Internet Movie Database Linknazis said:


> Referral Denied
> 
> You don't have permission to access "http://i.imdb.com/Photos/Ss/0286106/05-CT-3478.JPG" on this server.
> Reference #24.658b3554.1185205801.1db20cdc


----------



## ChosenFEW (Jun 23, 2005)

i wouldnt be surprised if Eddie Rush was/is also involved


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## essbee (Oct 30, 2006)

This thread is rigged.


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## vandyke (Jan 8, 2004)

I think this is being overblown, I read the article by Bill Simmons, he is a ********, and other media outlets that are trying to say that this is the beginning of the end of the NBA which is just ridiculous. This is no more then one stupid ***** of a referee who got in over his head because he gambled too much and lost too much, because of his losses he was a prime target to get reached by lower level mobsters and flipped into fixing games but this is just one stupid incident, I doubt it will turn into more than just one ******* of a referee who got caught up in his own ****, there will be things put in place to make sure this type of thing doesn't happen again and that will be the end of it, we will be ready to play ball when the season starts. I just think this is being overblown.


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## ChosenFEW (Jun 23, 2005)

even if there were other referees involved i doubt the NBA would say anything. It would have everybody 2nd guessing the outcomes of certain games. I think the NBA and commish stern want to make and keep this as an isolated incident, where it was only one bad apple. they will continue to force feed that message to us from now until the season starts. though like i said i wouldnt be surprised if others were involved.


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## essbee (Oct 30, 2006)

Iraqi Information Minister said:


> I think this is being overblown, I read the article by Bill Simmons, he is a ********, and other media outlets that are trying to say that this is the beginning of the end of the NBA which is just ridiculous. This is no more then one stupid ***** of a referee who got in over his head because he gambled too much and lost too much, because of his losses he was a prime target to get reached by lower level mobsters and flipped into fixing games but this is just one stupid incident, I doubt it will turn into more than just one ******* of a referee who got caught up in his own ****, there will be things put in place to make sure this type of thing doesn't happen again and that will be the end of it, we will be ready to play ball when the season starts. I just think this is being overblown.


word


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

ChosenFEW said:


> even if there were other referees involved i doubt the NBA would say anything. It would have everybody 2nd guessing the outcomes of certain games. I think the NBA and commish stern want to make and keep this as an isolated incident, where it was only one bad apple. they will continue to force feed that message to us from now until the season starts. though like i said i wouldnt be surprised if others were involved.


it's not the nba investigating this, it's the fbi. the nba can't keep this behind closed doors.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

as of now, we only know of a single ref who got himself in too deep. we can point out bad calls everywhere, that doesn't mean a fix. 

it would be pretty damaging if it came out that the wcf game was one that was influenced by the mob though. 

and, of course, the nba needs better policing of refs and ref calls and trends. seems pretty obvious that you'd be looking at point spreads and ref tendencies. but there are so many "potential" calls that it is pretty easy to just have a heavy/light whistle throughout any particular game without it being overly obvious. unless the ref had to make it fairly certain a particular team would cover.


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## unbiasedopinions (Jan 26, 2007)

ChosenFEW said:


> i wouldnt be surprised if Eddie Rush was/is also involved



OVER AND UNDERS from the 05-06 season from the refs who called the nba finals

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Game 1: #17 Joe Crawford , #14 Joe DeRosa , #15 Bennett Salvatore 
Game 2: #26 Bob Delaney , #29 Steve Javie , #32 Eddie F. Rush 
Game 3: #43 Dan Crawford , #41 Ken Mauer , #35 Jack Nies 
Game 4: #27 **** Bavetta , #24 Mike Callahan , #7 Bernie Fryer 
Game 5: #17 Joe Crawford , #14 Joe DeRosa , #15 Bennett Salvatore 
Game 6: #43 Dan Crawford , #29 Steve Javie , #32 Eddie F. Rush

refs in nba finals

Dan Crawford 50-36
Bavetta, Dick 46-37 
DeRosa, Joe 40-35 
Crawford, Joe 39-38 
Javie, Steve 34-44 
Salvatore, Bennett 29-43 
Rush, Eddie F. 33-47 
Delaney, Bob 32-40 
Mauer, Ken 39-40 
Fryer, Bernie 25-23 
Crawford, Joe 39-38


past 3 years of the same refs (tim donaghy's numbers with theirs for comparison)

04-05

Fryer, Bernie 48-31 
Callahan, Mike 42 36
Salvatore, Bennett 40-38 
Mauer, Ken 36-36 
Crawford, Joe 29-34 
Donaghy, Tim 29-35 
Bavetta, Dick 38-44 
Crawford, Dan 45-53 
Rush, Eddie F. 35-47 
Delaney, Bob 30-47 
Donaghy, Tim 29-35
DeRosa, Joe 43-35

05-06 season

Dan Crawford 50-36
Bavetta, Dick 46-37 
DeRosa, Joe 40-35 
Javie, Steve 34-44 
Salvatore, Bennett 29-43 
Rush, Eddie F. 33-47 
Delaney, Bob 32-40 
Mauer, Ken 39-40 
Fryer, Bernie 25-23 
Crawford, Joe 39-38
Donaghy, Tim 36-30
Nies, Jack 35-35

hmm clock malfunctioned in game 3 of the nba finals in the 05-06 season. Dan had 50 games "over" that year. Jack was right at .500 Ken (indicted for fraud before) was one game under. . 


06-07 (same guys)

Salvatore, Bennett 41-33 
Crawford, Dan 44-36 
Rush, Eddie F. 43-39 
Bavetta, Dick 41-41 
DeRosa, Joe 37-43 
Callahan, Mike 37-44 
Crawford, Joe 15-27 
Javie, Steve 30-43 
Delaney, Bob 35-37 
Fryer, Bernie 30-26 
Mauer, Ken 37-43 
Donaghy, Tim 43-29
Nies, Jack 29-34


I find it hilarious that most of the guys who had been over the past 3 seasons were surprisingly amazing under in the 06-07 season

[email protected]'s Crawfords stats in 06-07. Joe DeRosa was over for 2 seasons until last year (heat is on) Salvatore had one "under season" 

Gotta love Dan Crawfords' 50 "overs" in 05-06 season and 44 more overs in 06-07 Gotta love Joe Derosa having one "under season" (last year slightly)

most of the same guys are over or right at over and then "last year" all of a sudden they go under one year *shakes his head*


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## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

David Stern is only in a deep pile of **** if he admits to other refs being involved.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

adam said:


> Was that the game where Shaq said during a Jim Gray interview at halftime, 'the refs want to take over the ****ing game' on live t.v.? If it wasn't I wonder if Donaghy reffed that game too.


Nah, that was the Lakers vs Raptors in Toronto.


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## essbee (Oct 30, 2006)

kflo said:


> as of now, we only know of a single ref who got himself in too deep. we can point out bad calls everywhere, that doesn't mean a fix.
> 
> it would be pretty damaging if it came out that the wcf game was one that was influenced by the mob though.
> 
> and, of course, the nba needs better policing of refs and ref calls and trends. seems pretty obvious that you'd be looking at point spreads and ref tendencies. but there are so many "potential" calls that it is pretty easy to just have a heavy/light whistle throughout any particular game without it being overly obvious. unless the ref had to make it fairly certain a particular team would cover.


Yeah it's pretty bad when you can't tell the fixed games from the real ones due to the league-wide incompetence. Sorry what was your point exactly?


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## One on One (Dec 12, 2004)

Looks like Donaghe was doing pretty well for himself


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## One on One (Dec 12, 2004)

You guys can't look at betting stats and make any conclusions. Donaghe didn't go over EVERY game or under EVERY game, he could've done over/under evenly and they were probably betting on the spread more than the o/u anyways.


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## unbiasedopinions (Jan 26, 2007)

July 23, 2007 -- The allegedly dirty NBA referee who's set to sing in a mob point-shaving scandal sought police protection yesterday - after receiving threats that he could be whacked, cops said.

Three Manatee County Sheriff's squad cars screeched up to the Bradenton, Fla., home of terrified former NBA official Tim Donaghy to investigate menacing telephone calls against him.

"Our concern is for his safety and his family's safety," said Sheriff's Lt. Robert Mealy. "We are definitely going to share any information we get with the FBI."

The rogue ref's family is even urging him to enter the federal witness-protection program, one friend said.

"They think he will be killed if he goes to prison, or even if he doesn't, just because he's probably talking, cooperating, and that's ratting on the mob," the pal said. "I don't think [the Mafia] would take that very well.

"[Relatives] are very concerned for his safety," the friend added. "I think they knew something serious was going on, but not like this, not this big, whole life-or-death issue with the Mafia. I mean, it's the Gambinos."

Mealy declined to reveal more details of the threats against Donaghy, who is being investigated by federal authorities for allegedly working with mobsters tied to the Gambino crime family to fix the scores of NBA games to pay off his gambling debts.

*The disgraced ref is said to be set to spill all - threatening to bring down anyone and everyone with him, sources said. He'll be naming names of other refs, coaches, players and game "validators," who sit unobtrusively in the stands to review calls on the court, the source said.*

"There are other allegations of gambling that the FBI will run down," based on Donaghy's talk so far, one source said.

"Everybody's pointing a finger at everyone else."

Donaghy's name came to the attention of feds during wiretap probes of Gambino mobsters.

Yesterday, "he received some threatening phone calls, and he wanted them documented," Mealy said. "I know Mr. Donaghy was concerned."

Donaghy, 40, resigned from the NBA shortly after this past season amid then-undisclosed allegations that he bet on games he officiated.

Feds have not yet revealed which games they are probing.

Several friends in Cape May, N.J., where his parents summer, said Donaghy's co-workers grew suspicious of his behavior about three years ago, when he would offer to trade free tickets to certain games with some refs in exchange for others - and then suddenly renege.

"He just started screwing them," one friend said. "Tickets started going missing, misplaced . . . It was no longer, 'Hey, Tim's kind of an a- - hole.' It became, 'Tim is f- - - ing with the NBA.' And that's when they stopped trusting him completely."

Retired dentist John Minutella of West Chester, Pa., where Donaghy grew up and worked at a golf course, recounted a horrific prank Donaghy pulled on him 10 years ago, when the embattled ref put a dead bird in his golf bag. Minutella found the maggot-infested carcass 24 hours later.

"Nobody wanted to play golf with him," said Minutella, 64. " I can't say one nice thing about him. I believe this guy was almost soulless."

Additional reporting by David K. Li and Stefanie Cohen in New York and Tom Liddy in West Chester, Pa


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

my guess is that he knows and is willing to tell about other individuals who bet through the same channels he did.


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## ElMarroAfamado (Nov 1, 2005)

wow once again, this could get real ugly, is hope it all comes out before next season, and can it be fixed somehow???

by the way, im not a conspiracy theorist or nothing especially with this **** going on but i mean now it makes me wonder about those games, WHEN THEY WOULD CALL FOULS LIKE EVERY POSSESSION down, FOR ONE TEAM........


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## essbee (Oct 30, 2006)

unbiasedopinions said:


> July 23, 2007 -- The allegedly dirty NBA referee who's set to sing in a mob point-shaving scandal sought police protection yesterday - after receiving threats that he could be whacked, cops said.
> 
> Three Manatee County Sheriff's squad cars screeched up to the Bradenton, Fla., home of terrified former NBA official Tim Donaghy to investigate menacing telephone calls against him.
> 
> ...


Holy crap this just keeps getting better. 

lmao


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## DuMa (Dec 25, 2004)

> Retired dentist John Minutella of West Chester, Pa., where Donaghy grew up and worked at a golf course, recounted a horrific prank Donaghy pulled on him 10 years ago, when the embattled ref put a dead bird in his golf bag. Minutella found the maggot-infested carcass 24 hours later.


cant give cheap birdies nowadays in golf huh


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## RoddneyThaRippa (Jun 28, 2003)

This isn't funny anymore if players and league officials are involved.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

essbee said:


> Holy crap this just keeps getting better.
> 
> lmao


Oh yeah, baby, it's getting hotter in the league office.


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## Roscoe Sheed (Jun 19, 2006)

RoddneyThaRippa said:


> This isn't funny anymore if players and league officials are involved.


exactly. if those aspects are true, the NBA is ruined


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## maradro (Aug 2, 2003)

i doubt players are in on it. they get paid too much, and usually are too competitive to play under their ability intentionally. and i suspect the ones who would do it are too stupid to keep their cover for long.

a ref on the other hand is under much less scrutiny- at least in theory, he is supposed to blend in to the background- doesnt get paid all that much, and could care less who wins or loses. its not like hes going to get anything on it (whereas players get fame and a chance at a raise). 

i think if there are other refs involved, you cant start the season until you find out who it was. i read somewhere apparently stern and his boys knew donaghy was crooked by january of this year, but could not remove him because of the FBI investigation. Lets hope they got enough evidence to bring all of them down (though I think stern should have kept the ****** out of the playoffs, sure there are more bets for the FBI to investigate in the POs, and it was only 5 games, but that is always 5 too many)


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## carrrnuttt (Dec 4, 2004)

ehmunro said:


> Oh yeah, baby, it's getting hotter in the league office.





> *NBA knew of zebra's gambling all season*
> 
> <SCRIPT language=javascript type=text/javascript>	var isoPubDate = 'July 23, 2007'</SCRIPT>By New York Daily News
> 
> ...


I doubt, if the NBA did know of the FBI investigation, that they'd try to overlap it with their own private one.

Also, what inferences do you guys think can be made from the last sentence? The NBA investigating one of its own referees, yet blatantly avoiding to ask questions about its own games?


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## One on One (Dec 12, 2004)

I doubt players could be in on it. Only stars could really be in position to affect the game and they get paid way too much. There's only about 1 or 2 players on each team that wouldn't be pulled out of the game or taken out of the offense if they were playing like crap.


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## essbee (Oct 30, 2006)

FYI the patriots/raiders tuck game was also clearly fixed.


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## Mateo (Sep 23, 2006)

Eddy Curry could cheat. He could bet for himself on the over/under 7 rebounds and give a **** for once in his life.


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## One on One (Dec 12, 2004)

essbee said:


> FYI the patriots/raiders tuck game was also clearly fixed.


lol, you're such a cute little kid


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## essbee (Oct 30, 2006)

One on One said:


> lol, you're such a cute little kid


Heyyy I remember you. You're the guy who had so much to say about the culture of NBA players. What's your position on the culture of NBA refs since most of them are white and several of them went to the same school?

Thanks.


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## Trayhezy (May 19, 2006)

The funny part of this is that I have read 16 pages of posts, and not one post says a ref HELPED a poster's team win. 

Isn't it impossible for the refs to stick it to EVERY team?


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## 1fast540i (Jun 21, 2007)

His house is for sale!










Call up his realtor at 941 447 9735 and make him an offer! I offered $40!

Too bad it isn't FSBO.

Using my skills as an e-stalker, I found out the following information about the ref: Tim Donaghy.


Tax records for his crib: 

http://www.manateepao.com/Datalets.asp?mnu=PSearch&submnu=Profile&pin=588529359&tp=6&cp=5 

4109 sf of living space! Wow! 



A google map of his house: 

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=...pn=0.004029,0.007231&t=h&z=17&iwloc=addr&om=1 

Looks like his house was built in no earlier then 2005 as the map shows just raw land. Looks like his house is 10 miles from Sarasota. 


A Zillow of his house: 

http://www.zillow.com/HomeDetails.htm?zprop=68107687 

Looks like Zillow puts it at 1.2 Million but my records show he actually paid 1.3 million for the home in 2005. He paid almost $15,000 in property taxes last year. 5 Beds, 4.5 baths. It's interesting to note that this particular property has 23 total views but 17 of them have come in this month. Looks like I'm not the only fan who knows how to stalk people.

The scary thing is I found out all this info with a brief public records search. Imagine what his friends in the Mafia can find out. I won't be surprised if this guy gets whacked considering he is talking about testifying against the infamous Gambino family.


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## essbee (Oct 30, 2006)

I'm really really scared that you were able to dig up all that on the internet lol


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## 1fast540i (Jun 21, 2007)

Maybe I should post this picture too?









LOL!


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## unbiasedopinions (Jan 26, 2007)

*http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2979605

Donaghy to share info about other refs with feds

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ESPN.com news services

Former NBA official Tim Donaghy will reportedly give federal prosecutors information that will implicate other referees in some forms of gambling activity as part of his cooperation with government officials.

The offenses might not include any criminal activity, but could draw the ire of NBA commissioner David Stern, who has insisted the Donaghy situation was that of a "rogue, isolated criminal." 

A report on 1050 ESPN Radio in New York said Donaghy will give prosecutors as many as 20 names of other NBA officials and will detail their involvement in some form of gambling activity. The specifics of the gambling allegations are reportedly believed to include betting in casinos. 

Donaghy, who pleaded guilty on Thursday and was released on $250,000 bond, faces a maximum of 25 years in prison when he is sentenced Nov. 9 for conspiracy to engage in wire fraud and transmitting betting information through interstate commerce. He also must pay a $500,000 fine and at least $30,000 in restitution to the government.*

i don't think "other nba refs" would bet on a nonsure thing. better believe there was other game fixing going on. *whistles*


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## duncan2k5 (Feb 27, 2005)

doesnt sound too bad...just couple refs betting in casinos...its not like he said they were betting on NBA games or anything...but stern must be pulling his hair out as we speak...dont be surprised if he does his next press conference in a bucket hat


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## unbiasedopinions (Jan 26, 2007)

duncan2k5 said:


> doesnt sound too bad...just couple refs betting in casinos...its not like he said they were betting on NBA games or anything...but stern must be pulling his hair out as we speak...dont be surprised if he does his next press conference in a bucket hat



i don't think donaghy would just be snitching on casino gambling I honestly don't think that the feds would lessen his time for just that. He's gonna spill the beans ala jose canseco and steroids


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## duncan2k5 (Feb 27, 2005)

the nba will be ok...


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