# Best Way To Improve the Knicks...



## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

Not make a single big time move. Looking back and recollecting this past season, I do not believe I have been more confident in the Knicks ability to win as composed than ever before. A majority of the games we lost, we lost off of single digit deficits and irractic free throw shooting in spite of a series of key injuries to our core. Suffering only two blowouts during the course of the year and having 29 loses out of 49 be by 10 points or less (with a majority being only by 5 or so points), would it be so unreasonable to see this team make huge improvements next year just from more discipline? We are young at around 25 years of age, so would it be unreasonable to see improvements if we're healthy?

The only trades I'd look to make would be minor. Steve Francis to the Blazers for Raef LaFrentz and 2 2nd round draft picks. Nate Robinson, Jared Jefferies and one of those 2nd rounders to the Hawks for Josh Childress. Jerome James and the other 2nd round pick to the Wolves for Troy Hudson.

Of the 3 players we'd acquire, only Josh Childress would really be in my rotation; the other two are just veteran insurance. Childress provides us with the solid perimeter defender that we wanted with Jared Jefferies but with the added benefit of a jump shot (36% from beyond the arch). That alone might mean wonders for this team because we'd have a guy that can play both ends of the floor that would not allow teams to cheat on Eddy in the paint. In addition to that, I believe there is another key fact that goes overlooked on defense. *I think Jared Jefferies is an effective trap defender but do not believe he is anything worth wild one-on-one.* What is the point of having a trap defender if you don't run a zone and you don't have individual defenders good enough to effectively keep their man in front of them? Childress gives us exactly what we need from that stand point because he possesses the lateral quickness to keep people in front of him and successfully contain a player on an individual front. That would mean alot for a team that was 25th in defense and don't possess the kind of front-court to help off of drives to the paint.

I been a guy that has been extremely down on Channing Frye next to Curry and have focused on trading him in several scenarios. I noticed that in either scenario, I attempted to bring in a player that was suppose to do what Frye did his first year in New York, so I figured that maybe it would be best to give Frye another shot on the Knicks. I think his demise was in large part due to that muscle he added during the offseason. Coming off a season where he suffered a noteworthy injury to his knee, adding upperbody weight was the most foolish thing he could do. That weight hindered his finesse ability and made him a mediocre player physically since he lost some of his quickness that made him special and still did not have the opportunity to play down low where that muscle could be put to use. 

This offseason if Frye concentrates on cardio and calestinics, I think he can effectively rebound because in his first year he beat guys off the dribble, something we did not see his 2 year around. That kind of game is almost a necessity next to the brusing back to the basket style Curry plays; he can best exploit these benefits from developing that face up game. He was also more relevant defensively with that quickness as opposed to this season where he looked sluggish and clumbersome. Both he and Curry could be MAJOR threats in the post if they learned how to work together as a duo and learn how to help their teammates capitalize on the mismatches they provide.

P.S., things work out especially well with our rotation with Frye because he presents alot of versatility in our lineup. With a big 4, we have the ability to move him over to the 5 and insert a smaller David Lee at the 4 spot and play a more open floor game. We can also effectively work a 3 man rotation that would also secure David Lee alot of minutes and the opportunity to continue to be a big contributor to this team. It all ultimately hinges on Frye's ability to play within this new system and improve on what he did his first year while learning from the mistakes of his 2nd.


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## urwhatueati8god (May 27, 2003)

TwinkieFoot said:


> Not make a single big time move. Looking back and recollecting this past season, I do not believe I have been more confident in the Knicks ability to win as composed than ever before. A majority of the games we lost, we lost off of single digit deficits and irractic free throw shooting in spite of a series of key injuries to our core. Suffering only two blowouts during the course of the year and having 29 loses out of 49 be by 10 points or less (with a majority being only by 5 or so points), would it be so unreasonable to see this team make huge improvements next year just from more discipline? We are young at around 25 years of age, so would it be unreasonable to see improvements if we're healthy?
> 
> The only trades I'd look to make would be minor. Steve Francis to the Blazers for Raef LaFrentz and 2 2nd round draft picks. Nate Robinson, Jared Jefferies and one of those 2nd rounders to the Hawks for Josh Childress. Jerome James and the other 2nd round pick to the Wolves for Troy Hudson.
> 
> ...


I don't think Childress makes sense as Afflalo will be better than him and will be obtainable in the draft. If the third pick is as obtainable as it's being made out to be, I would personally like to see the Knicks attempt to get it. Everybody wants a quality shooter for Curry and Yi Jianlian could very easily become that player. Crawford at this point in time I feel is the most expendable as he has the easiest contract to dispose of without being completely overpaid. Given Atlanta's propensity for devouring over-sized guards, they'd probably overpay for him as well. Atlanta has very little incentive for hanging on to their both of their picks as a record as bad as this year only makes them look stupid to think that Joe Johnson is a franchise player since the pick automatically goes to Phoenix. If they are indeed looking to save some embarrassment, one of the picks could come much cheaper than it otherwise would.


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

urwhatueati8god said:


> I don't think Childress makes sense as Afflalo will be better than him and will be obtainable in the draft. If the third pick is as obtainable as it's being made out to be, I would personally like to see the Knicks attempt to get it. Everybody wants a quality shooter for Curry and Yi Jianlian could very easily become that player. Crawford at this point in time I feel is the most expendable as he has the easiest contract to dispose of without being completely overpaid. Given Atlanta's propensity for devouring over-sized guards, they'd probably overpay for him as well. Atlanta has very little incentive for hanging on to their both of their picks as a record as bad as this year only makes them look stupid to think that Joe Johnson is a franchise player since the pick automatically goes to Phoenix. If they are indeed looking to save some embarrassment, one of the picks could come much cheaper than it otherwise would.


Never really seen what Afflalo can do but have heard good things. I still do not believe we'd need much on this team in order to win if guys like Channing Frye play up to what we expect from them. As for trading Curry just for the 3rd pick, I think that is a ridiculous idea especially considering the fact that no one can really be to sure about how a guy like Yi Jianlian can translate his game into the NBA; I doubt even you would have been able to see him play extensively. 

Whose everybody that wants to trade Curry for a shooter? That doesn't make any sense considering the fact that we only wanted shooters on this team to capitalize on the spacing Curry himself provides on the floor. 

P.S., Crawford is under contract for about 3 more years. The Hawks also keep their pick this year in the draft since it was top 3.


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## urwhatueati8god (May 27, 2003)

TwinkieFoot said:


> Never really seen what Afflalo can do but have heard good things. I still do not believe we'd need much on this team in order to win if guys like Channing Frye play up to what we expect from them. *As for trading Curry just for the 3rd pick, I think that is a ridiculous idea especially considering the fact that no one can really be to sure about how a guy like Yi Jianlian can translate his game into the NBA; I doubt even you would have been able to see him play extensively. *
> 
> Whose everybody that wants to trade Curry for a shooter? That doesn't make any sense considering the fact that we only wanted shooters on this team to capitalize on the spacing Curry himself provides on the floor.
> 
> P.S., Crawford is under contract for about 3 more years. The Hawks also keep their pick this year in the draft since it was top 3.


I meant a quality shooter to play along side Curry. When I said the Hawks would overpay for Crawford, I meant with players.


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## Kiyaman (Aug 14, 2006)

The best way to improve the Knicks would be to trade both Francis & Jefferies for season injured players that wont be healthy untill the midseason. 
This way the Knicks could start next season with a Steady Starting 5 Players of 
PG-Marbury
SG-Crawford
SF-Q.Rich
PF-Lee
C-Curry (playing defense & rebounding) so Frye could be his replacement (when playing small). 
6-Man Balkman
7-Man Nate
8-Man Collins 
9-Man Malik 

For all those who dont like Nate on the Knicks, need to watch the Nate/Crawford street ball team this offseason. And when you put Lee & Balkman with that backcourt tandem vs NBA oponents these four Players play off each of their oponents weak areas. 

Coach Isiah Thomas did not want Nate Robinson exciting the crowd each game this season (like he did in his rookie season) over the BIG$Money-Players Marbury and Francis. 
Changing Channing Frye Role from staying outside of the paint on all offensive plays help Curry play above Frye usual bothsides of the court performance (that Frye showed in his rookie season).


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

Kiyaman said:


> The best way to improve the Knicks would be to trade both Francis & Jefferies for season injured players that wont be healthy untill the midseason.
> This way the Knicks could start next season with a Steady Starting 5 Players of
> PG-Marbury
> SG-Crawford
> ...



The reason why Crawford is so valueable as a bench player is because of his propensity to just "go off" offensively on any given night. When you play him as a starter, that value is lost because you can not afford for a focal point of your offense to be inconsistent. Even a more convincing argument of why Crawford should remain on the bench is the fact that no one on our team, and hardly anyone in the league, can come off the bench and do what he does on the offensive end of the floor. We'd essentially lose the right hook that made us always a threat, no matter the score or in what stretch of the game. 

Your best bet would be to insert Balkman into the lineup at the 3 spot and keep Richardson at the 2 spot. This works out better in my opinion because Balkman is an effective pressure defender and his shot blocking ability make him an excellent help defender, two things we don't have any of in our lineup. I like the tandem of him and Lee together on the basketball court, so I won't object to bringing Channing Frye off the bench, who I feel would be more efficient there because he'll have the versatility to play either the 4 or 5 spot. In addition to that, him coming off the bench will allow him to have more stints where he does not play with Eddy Curry and therefore has an opportunity to be the premier scoring option in the post. I'm a bit shaky on the idea however because Frye could very well be a flop in this role because it takes a special player to come off the bench and be as effective as they are as a starter.


My rotation would look like:

Starters:
Stephon Marbury...PG 32 minutes per game
Quentin Richardson...SG 30 minutes per game (15mpg at the 2 spot and 15mpg at the 3 spot)
Ronaldo Balkman...SF 25 minutes per game
Channing Frye...PF 30 minutes per game (17mpg at the 4 spot and 13mpg at the 5 spot)
Eddy Curry...C 35 minutes per game 

Substitutes:
Mardy Collins...PG 23 minutes per game (16mpg at the point and 8mpg at the 3 spot)
Jamal Crawford...G 33 minutes per game 
David Lee...PF 31 minutes per game 
Malik Rose...F/C Minutes based on game to game situation and whether someone is in foul trouble

...with Jared Jefferies as a potential player in the rotation if the situation calls for it. I'd play Marbury about 32 MPG, leaving Mardy 16mpg to work with at the PG spot (I'd also play him at the 3 spot in a Jalen Rose manor for about 8mpg so that his passing could promote ball movement with Marbury and Crawford in gunner mode). I'd play Richardson about 30mpg to help reduce injuries and keep him fresh for down the road in the season; about 15mpg would be spent at the 2 spot, 15mpg at the SF spot. That would mean I'd have about 33mpg to play Crawford at the 2 spot and Balkman 25mpg at the 3 spot. I'd play Frye about 30mpg; 17mpg at the 4 spot and 13mpg at the 5 spot. This means I'd play David Lee for about 31mpg and play Malik Rose depending on whether anyone is in foul trouble or not.


The purpose behind all of these moves is to maximize the team's versatility. It's a major reason why I'd keep Jamal Crawford, Mardy Collins and David Lee on the bench because they can play several positions, showing a propensity to be a spark at each position. 

I especially like adding Mardy Collins to our rotation because of his ability to change the game by giving our scorers looks. Last year while starting Marbury, Richardson, Jefferies, Frye and Curry; the responsibility fell on Marbury alone to promote ball movement on the team. No player outside of Marbury has ever been noted for their passing skills which I felt resulted in our players just standing around while someone looked to score the ball. *Adding Mardy takes all that pressure off of Marbury and gives our offense more motion and different angles of attack. This is why our bench appeared to be so much more effective than our starting lineup last year.* When Crawford entered the game, he offered the similar dimensions that Collins does, so I look forward to playing him at that 3 spot.

Having David Lee on the bench allows to play teams in several different fashions. We could either look to play a big lineup by keeping Curry on the floor or look to go small by shifting Frye to the 5 spot, where he looked much better at. This will give us the option of giving Frye some mismatches he can take advantage of and maximizes the minutes David Lee can get who we want on the floor as much as possible.


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

Come to think of it, the whole reason why I felt Josh Childress was the only thing we really needed to improve from last year was because of his propensity to be that kind of ball mover. In college, he was exactly that and a multi-faceted player so I feel that he'd be perfect for our team because of that. He also gives Curry better spacing on the floor because he has range. I'd add him and just basically give half of the minutes Richardson would see at SF to him.


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## KVIP112 (Oct 31, 2005)

If we used a 10 man rotation I would like it to look like this...

PG-Marbury/Mardy
SG-Crawford/Nate
SF-Q/Balkman
PF-Frye/Lee
C-Curry/Jeffries

When Curry comes out we go fast full court offense and Jeffries or Balkman could be the Center. Balkman can block good and is fast so he can guard/front the centers well. Jeffries could be more of the backup SF than Balkman cuz Jeffries will cover the best player on the court most of the time. Either way thats the way I see it. either nate or francis as a backup to JC i say Nate cuz hes younger and can shoot. Both have attitudes but nate has a jumper and francis is out of control too much when he handles anad Nate doesnt handle as much.


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## thatsnotgross (Dec 4, 2006)

I figured I will give it a shot.

I think Francis is gone. I think Crawford will stay because Q will never play 82 games in a season again. If you trade Crawford, and hoping Qrich will play 82 games, then you are hoping for Jesus to return as well. I would rather just blow up the team and keep 2 to 4 players. But that won't happen.

Another thing that won't happen is getting under the salary cap. Why do I think we won't get under the salary caps. By the time marbury, rose and other overpaid players we have will be gone BUT we must re-up some contracts like DAvid lee, Frye and so on.

Best way to improve the Knicks is to get Curry more training, Qrich a healthy body, Crawford a brain, marbury a couple of management training classes, and Frye on the VH1 show called "Bring back my rookie year".

There is nothing in the free agent market that will dramatically improve the KNicks using the MLE. Unless Vince Carter or any other superstars are ready to sign MLE contracts just because its NY.


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## alphaorange (Jul 2, 2006)

*First....*

Q will never be a starting GUARD in this league again except in special circumstances. People are forgetting how well Collins played at the end. Improve his turnovers and he was dynamic in his all around game. If he comes in with a better J, he starts or plays starters minutes. With the roster we have, it should be Marbury, Collins, Q, Lee, and Curry. Frye in for the 4-5, JC and Nate for the guards, Balkman, then Jeffries.

This team needs 3 outside shooters....2 of which should be dependably consistent. Collins is not good, so thats an issue. JC is inconsistent. Q is reasonably good but health is an issue. I still draft Nichols and groom him for the 3, hope that Collins and Lee worked on the jumper, and everyone work on team defense.

BTW, for those Nichols doubters, I hope you had a chance to watch the camp games on ESPN.


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## CocaineisaHelluvaDrug (Aug 24, 2006)

You are referring to demetrius nichols right ??

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I`m a BIG syracuse fan and i can tell u now nichols will never be n nba starter,he can hit the 3 sometimes and his sprint time was good but thats it,he`s streakier than a zebras back and could`nt defend a poster of the guy he`s supposed to be checking

Gotta disagree there orange,he`s destined for europe imo...but you never know




on a side note f the knicks were smart they`d make an early pitch for paul harris next year because he`s the most underrated player in college ball right now,bonheim did`nt want him leaving this year and pulled the plug on him everytime he heated up.
i`ve never seen an all-american(1st team unanimous choice....until the powers at be stepped in) get so badly shafted by a coach (no plays run for him at all).
He will blow up BIGTIME this forthcoming season,think ron artest with a slightly better temperament


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

i do agree with twinkie that the team can really use more ball movers on the court , i think they have them though but when you could really see what smart players like balkman and collins could do it was because the team was hurt and guys like JC and qrich and lee were already out , meaning the team was forced to have those guys on the court with jerome james an out of cohesion jeffries, steve francis and malik rose .

i think people will be surprised with the ball movement when the team is completely healthy next season because the rooks will help that a great deal as they play with the regulars and I also think jeffries will continue to find his way as he plays more in the knicks sys.

I think they will completely take away the minutes of nate , francis and malik hopefully and be a stronger team for it.

if no changes are made i think the regular rotation will look like this 

curry
frye/Lee
Qrich/balkman
JC/mardy
marbury

with jeffries being a regular but having no real position , mainly defending whomever is hot on offense in the 2/3/4 spots and roaming on offense trying to find a way to be effective by running the floor, getting to loose balls,cutting to the hoop, putbacks and shooting his rather inaccurate jumpshot.

the others playing spot minutes due to foul trouble, matchup problems and/or injury concerns.

I can see the need though for a guy who plays the 2/3 who can move the ball for the simple reason of qrich and his questionable back and childress would be a a good fit, he is a supposrting player who is athletic and is the type who does what is needed to win but on the hawks he just plays a spot that is too crowded...he is very versatile .


i look at the knicks as similar to the clippers before they got elton brand in which they had talent but were being essentially brought down by 1 position , power forward , whereas he couldn't really help the bulls at that time because they were so green and had so many major flaws his impact was immediate on the clips because he turned their greatest weakness ino a strength overnight. he took their weaknesses as far as interior presence, toughness and rebounding and made them things the clips did well because he personally is a load down there .

i dont deny that lee and frye have talent , but only really Lee needs to stay, he provides energy and superior rebounding and has a jumpshot although he is reluctant to use it effectively . being able to post up is almost menaingless because of the time curry takes up down there 

Frye has alot of strengths too but his main attribute on a team with curry on it is as a jumpshooter and since Lee actually can shoot(although i wish he would pull the trigger more when the opportunity arises) even that strength isn't so much a dire need especially since frye doesn't shoot 3's so both of them are of the 18-20 ft. jumpshooter variety.


to me frye is a future star at center in the league but his value will only decline the longer he is paired with curry , he will get bigger and stronger but he isn't going to get quicker and faster and with curry playing 35 minutes a there isn't much room for frye as a backup center 

Its no secret I think Frye and any combination of nate , moris , #23 pick francis, malik should be dealt for a quality 4 to bookend Curry in the post . I would prefer that guy be young, tough, physical a good rebounder, energtic with a quality jumpshot ...being a good finisher would be nice as well as being a shotblocker.

I see a team where all the toughest guys (Stephon , francis , nate , qrich, balkman and mardy ) play perimeter positions and i cant really think of the last time i could say the top half dozen toughest guys on a team and none of them were a true 4 or 5 and that team was successful, its certainly a hinderance if not an ouright handicap especially if the knicks are going to continue to be a pound it in style team. its like being a perimeter based team that cant shoot , its just a recipe for disaster. 

there are a # of guys who more or less fit that description of what i would like around the league and generally those guys have considerable talent and are star level players guys like garnnett , o'neal, brand,okafor, d.howard,boozer and duncan ...but there are non stars who fit that description as well, like haslem shelden williams, nene and AK-47.

if any of those guys were plugged into frye's spot i believe the team would show a great deal of improvement.


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## alphaorange (Jul 2, 2006)

*You're way off.....*

and I think I'm in a pretty good position to say so, since I've seen nearly every game of both their careers. You should check Nichols stats on other posts. He has been a remarkably good shooter and shot some ridiculously high % at the camp games. I don't know where you keep reading he can't defend but when SU went man, Nichols excelled. What you keep hearing is crap based on the fact that SU plays zone. If you read about the camps...or watched the games....he had zero trouble playing defense. He is a guy that has gone from late 2nd/undrafted to late 1st/early 2nd. When a guy moves up that much, he is showing stuff people didn't know he had. It's much easier to drop a lot than to move up a lot.

Your hype on Harris is off base as well. He has no jump shot yet and is too small to play in the NBA the way he plays on offense right now. He isn't a PG because he hasn't done it enough and he for sure isn't a 2. He is just about 6'4 so he's no forward in the NBA. Right now he is defender at the guard position as far as the league is concerned. IF he gets a jumpshot with range he may become a shooting guard. If not, he will have to learn to be a PG. He will average somewhere around 15/9/4 next year but that will be at the forward position.....book it.


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## EwingStarksOakley94 (May 13, 2003)

thatsnotgross said:


> Best way to improve the Knicks is to get Curry more training, Qrich a healthy body, Crawford a brain, marbury a couple of management training classes, and Frye on the VH1 show called "Bring back my rookie year".


LOL, sounds like they need to make an appointment with the Wizard of Oz!


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## knickstorm (Jun 22, 2003)

www.starbury.com said:


> You are referring to demetrius nichols right ??
> 
> HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
> 
> ...


thank god, another person who isnt riding nichols. Man if you check the other post like he say you'l see i schools him on nichols. He'll be bostjan nachbar at best. I cant believe orange tried to defend himself by comparing nichols to durant, ridiculous.

This knick team is hopeless. Just pray and get lucky with a solid player from the draft.


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## CocaineisaHelluvaDrug (Aug 24, 2006)

*Re: You're way off.....*

He will average somewhere around 15/9/4 next year but that will be at the forward position.....book it.[/QUOTE]

hes an nba 2 guard and will play that at SU next year


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## alphaorange (Jul 2, 2006)

*Guard?*

Not a chance. Devendorf is not going to the bench and he ain't a forward. Likely to be all Big East next year. Ever hear of Jonny Flynn? One of the top PGs in the country and Harris' former HS team mate. He will play major minutes if not start. Scoop Jardine? Another top 50 guard. He'll play. Andy Rautins? Too small for the 3 but SU needs his game. He'll play. Josh Wright is the likely guard out of the rotation. The only opening is at the 3 where Nichols was. Donte Greene is top 3 and will start at the 4 from day one. Harris will be a 3...playing like a 4. Book it. Any other questions about the 'Cuse? I'll try to help.


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## knickstorm (Jun 22, 2003)

*Re: Guard?*



alphaorange said:


> Not a chance. Devendorf is not going to the bench and he ain't a forward. Likely to be all Big East next year. Ever hear of Jonny Flynn? One of the top PGs in the country and Harris' former HS team mate. He will play major minutes if not start. Scoop Jardine? Another top 50 guard. He'll play. Andy Rautins? Too small for the 3 but SU needs his game. He'll play. Josh Wright is the likely guard out of the rotation. The only opening is at the 3 where Nichols was. Donte Greene is top 3 and will start at the 4 from day one. Harris will be a 3...playing like a 4. Book it. Any other questions about the 'Cuse? I'll try to help.


relax man, he said nba 2 guard, he didnt say he was gonna play 2 guard for Cuse, he meant whenever he decides to enter the league, he'll play the 2 position


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## alphaorange (Jul 2, 2006)

*Kstorm....*

Go back and read his post again. He said: "hes an nba 2 guard and will play that at SU next year". He said it, and he is wrong.


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

Da Grinch said:


> i do agree with twinkie that the team can really use more ball movers on the court , i think they have them though but when you could really see what smart players like balkman and collins could do it was because the team was hurt and guys like JC and qrich and lee were already out , meaning the team was forced to have those guys on the court with jerome james an out of cohesion jeffries, steve francis and malik rose .
> 
> i think people will be surprised with the ball movement when the team is completely healthy next season because the rooks will help that a great deal as they play with the regulars and I also think jeffries will continue to find his way as he plays more in the knicks sys.
> 
> ...


Recently, I have relented from looking to move Channing Frye and just hoped that he'd be smart enough to realize that his game with the Knicks is going to have to to rely on speed and aggressiveness. Last year, he appeared to display both before he got injuried (thanks Nate). I recall him putting the ball on the floor and stuffing it in people's faces on several occassions. Defensively, I never recalled him getting beat off the dribble as much as he did this year. Adding all that upperbody weight when he was focused on just getting his knee as strong as it was, was just foolish in my opinion because I knew it would hurt his speed. Hopefully with the proper workout regime and a better of fimilarity with what Zeke expects from him, he'll get back to his rookie form.

If Frye does not work out, what do you think about moving him for *Chris Wilcox*? Wilcox demonstrates all the qualities we want defensively from our 4 and has shown some offensive ability with the Sonics. I know the Sonics still want a bona-fide post scorer and that is what Frye could be for them. Ideally speaking, the trade works well for both teams. Maybe we could expand the deal to include Rashard Lewis.

I thought I was the only person that really felt David Lee could hit jump shots consistently. I think people forgot all too quickly that with Larry Brown, David Lee took and coverted on alot of looks along the baseline. We should look to give him more looks from that spot because he looked comfortable taking them.


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## Kiyaman (Aug 14, 2006)

This Kobe Bryant Trade issue through a BIG wrench into every NBA team plans for the offseason. KG was a 30% maybe of getting trade this offseason but when Kobe entered the Trade picture the KG, J.O'Neal, Lewis, Artest, and the Boston Celtics top scorer could change the league around in a multiple trade this offseason, especially if one of the 3 top draft picks are included in any of these big players trade. 

*As for the Knicks and there sorry 33 WIN Season (for no reason at all) other than the tactics of President/Coach Isiah Thomas Saving-Face.* 

The Knicks happen to have their first round pick already before the draft in Randolph Morris thanks to Isiah eyes for young talent. The Knicks 23rd pick and what Isiah do with it is a mystery? 
I believe the Knicks have a great roster of young talented players that like to play together if their Head-Coach could get Marbury to compliment Curry talent, and Curry to compliment Marbury talent, somewhat like we been seeing in all of the Championship Spurs Post Season presence in the "Duncan & Parker" Tandem. The Knicks would do well next season if they shorten their rotation giving alot of their young players playingtime together just to build a playoff team. Then in the 2008 offseason the knicks could look for the missing puzzle player to a sound "JELLIN" rotation. 

*How many players on the Knicks roster compliment their teammates other than young players Lee, Balkman,* and Collins, whom was all in the Knicks Offseason Summer League team wishing for a top scorer other than just Nate Robinson, whom had the PG-assist duties of seeing what all the summer tryouts could do on offense? 
*This past 2006-7 season the TWO-Players that started every Knick game they played and average over 30 MPG need to be question by the Fans: 
1) Does Marbury talents compliment Curry talents? 
2) Does Curry talents compliment Marbury talents? 

What do you think???*


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## alphaorange (Jul 2, 2006)

*Come on, twink*

How many times have I posted about Lee's decent % and extended streak where he shot the hell out of it for a week or so? If you can't recall, you should spend more time reading posts. I WAS the only guy that said Lee was a decent shooter who would become a good one. Find an old post with someone else saying it. 'Bout time you started seeing things my way. I see you're also starting to see my vision of Frye, as well. The education continues.


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

*Re: Come on, twink*



alphaorange said:


> How many times have I posted about Lee's decent % and extended streak where he shot the hell out of it for a week or so? If you can't recall, you should spend more time reading posts. I WAS the only guy that said Lee was a decent shooter who would become a good one. Find an old post with someone else saying it. 'Bout time you started seeing things my way. I see you're also starting to see my vision of Frye, as well. The education continues.


I give you credit for posting that Lee can shoot but when have I either commented about his shooting ability being bad? Exactly. At the same time though, I do not exactly believe it's great because even Shandon Anderson had his spots on the floor (the corners) despite being a horrendously bad shooter and equally bad finisher. All I'm saying is that the Knicks should look to give Lee a couple shots there because he seems to knock them down more comfortably along the baseline.

I also am more skeptical about Frye than you but I realize I was being to hesty with him. With some heavy conditioning to improve his agility and athleticism on the floor and more basketball 101, I will be able to make a better decision. Right now, most of the guys we have recommended getting are all basically in the same boat as Frye; none necessarily having more upside than he does. We might as well wait and see what he gives us. I just hope that we don't waste time in doing so.

P.S., don't flatter yourself because you should trust me when I see that I'm coming to these conclusions from a collection of things that have occurred.


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

Kiyaman said:


> This Kobe Bryant Trade issue through a BIG wrench into every NBA team plans for the offseason. KG was a 30% maybe of getting trade this offseason but when Kobe entered the Trade picture the KG, J.O'Neal, Lewis, Artest, and the Boston Celtics top scorer could change the league around in a multiple trade this offseason, especially if one of the 3 top draft picks are included in any of these big players trade.
> 
> *As for the Knicks and there sorry 33 WIN Season (for no reason at all) other than the tactics of President/Coach Isiah Thomas Saving-Face.*
> 
> ...


I think that Marbury and Curry do compliment each other because neither have had the same quality of player that they have had in each other. I feel that both of them being so talented offensively allow the responsibility of running the team to be shared. Ideally speaking, I see Curry being the backbone of our offense but Marbury being the man that can take over for stretches during cold streaks since he can still get to the rim anytime he wants. Having Curry around also makes Marbury's job much easier at finding people because he constantly demands attention that draws the defense away from the rest of their teammates.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

TwinkieFoot said:


> Recently, I have relented from looking to move Channing Frye and just hoped that he'd be smart enough to realize that his game with the Knicks is going to have to to rely on speed and aggressiveness. Last year, he appeared to display both before he got injuried (thanks Nate). I recall him putting the ball on the floor and stuffing it in people's faces on several occassions. Defensively, I never recalled him getting beat off the dribble as much as he did this year. Adding all that upperbody weight when he was focused on just getting his knee as strong as it was, was just foolish in my opinion because I knew it would hurt his speed. Hopefully with the proper workout regime and a better of fimilarity with what Zeke expects from him, he'll get back to his rookie form.
> 
> If Frye does not work out, what do you think about moving him for *Chris Wilcox*? Wilcox demonstrates all the qualities we want defensively from our 4 and has shown some offensive ability with the Sonics. I know the Sonics still want a bona-fide post scorer and that is what Frye could be for them. Ideally speaking, the trade works well for both teams. Maybe we could expand the deal to include Rashard Lewis.
> 
> I thought I was the only person that really felt David Lee could hit jump shots consistently. I think people forgot all too quickly that with Larry Brown, David Lee took and coverted on alot of looks along the baseline. We should look to give him more looks from that spot because he looked comfortable taking them.


I have always thought Lee could shoot , what i've questioned is his lack of shooting it , not his ability to hit it when he shoots.

as for wilcox ...not really a fan of his defense to me he is just OK on defense , the soncis are an even worse defensive team than the knicks and wilcox has been virtually powerless to to anything about it. he is a good finisher and a very good athlete though.

i only want to move frye for guys who fill the team's holes in toughness, defense and intensity none of which really applies to wilcox.

i tend to blame frye's defensive woes mainly on the fact that he is really a center , he didn't get beat so much as a rook because he was playing mostly center as opposed to last year where he was usually a center , as time goes on he will get bigger and stronger , but not faster and quicker so playing the 4 will only become more of a problem to me IMO...and since neither frye or curry are versatile enough to offset their issues of quickness at the 4 with skill and the post apparently only can hold one of them at a time i will pretty stay on the trade Fyre bandwagon until he is gone or he gets better at meshing his talents with Curry.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

TwinkieFoot said:


> I think that Marbury and Curry do compliment each other because neither have had the same quality of player that they have had in each other. I feel that both of them being so talented offensively allow the responsibility of running the team to be shared. Ideally speaking, I see Curry being the backbone of our offense but Marbury being the man that can take over for stretches during cold streaks since he can still get to the rim anytime he wants. Having Curry around also makes Marbury's job much easier at finding people because he constantly demands attention that draws the defense away from the rest of their teammates.


i agree for the most part , but i think they both need a shooter badly on the court , marbury and curry need spacing which is why they missed Q and JC so much even though neither are really pure shooters but both cmp on the outside and can hit enough from out there and are streaky enough that if you let them have one , they may hit their next 5 and basically the knicks win.


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

Da Grinch said:


> i agree for the most part , but i think they both need a shooter badly on the court , marbury and curry need spacing which is why they missed Q and JC so much even though neither are really pure shooters but both cmp on the outside and can hit enough from out there and are streaky enough that if you let them have one , they may hit their next 5 and basically the knicks win.


I think that essentially boils down to what Isiah the coach and GM has to look to improve on. I think we have guys in our lineup that are just scratching their potential as perimeter shooters (not necessarily long range bombers). Potential does not always amount to results so Isiah now has the interesting job as a GM to find those shooters who can get the job done but also be accountable for the other end of the floor. This is why I go so back and forth when it comes to personnel. I still wonder whether we should even invest time trying to cover Frye into an adequate 4 or just move on. It would be great if he worked out. Imagine us having two options in the post at a 20ppg clip. That would effectively end this rebuilding program and turn this into a retooling program.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

TwinkieFoot said:


> I think that essentially boils down to what Isiah the coach and GM has to look to improve on. I think we have guys in our lineup that are just scratching their potential as perimeter shooters (not necessarily long range bombers). Potential does not always amount to results so Isiah now has the interesting job as a GM to find those shooters who can get the job done but also be accountable for the other end of the floor. This is why I go so back and forth when it comes to personnel. I still wonder whether we should even invest time trying to cover Frye into an adequate 4 or just move on. It would be great if he worked out. Imagine us having two options in the post at a 20ppg clip. That would effectively end this rebuilding program and turn this into a retooling program.


i understand what you are saying , but I dont think the knicks(re: Isiah ) really can flourish with a twin tower system because to me basically both Frye and Curry are centers.

I find him to be a good motivator, and even a good developer of talent, but the knicks are still having an issue with too many guys needing the ball. I have strong doubts that Thomas can/will scheme a team that can get alot out of frye.

Curry after nov. was basically avg. 21 a game , marbury in the 18-19 range after a 10 point nov. JC at 17 or so , there really might not be room for another guy in the high teens/20 point range especially with Qrich chipping in his 15 or so when healthy.

i think thats the main reason the team did better with every1 else at PF last season , Lee in particular , because all the other 4's are off the ball players, Rose , jeffries after he got in the flow late in the year, even balkman when he moved there and Lee all are basically off the ball players who basically hustle for most of their points or shoot only open J's....Frye couldn't get the ball enough and even when guys were dropping like flies and they really needed his offense he couldn't get back in the flow because his season was already lost, and he couldn't get himself going.


Frye is at his best when plays are run for him, pick and pops/rolls and he is productive when it happens just about all the time when he suppliments that with some post play...but the post belongs to Curry and Zeke seems to be dead set against 2 man games of any kind that dont include curry.

you look at the top teams and you'll see the true title comtenders have things the knicks dont as far as role players , guys who perfectly fit their superstars .

duncan has guys like omberto who does all the dirty work bowen who are lockdown defenders and give him the spacing he needs on offense along with stars like parker and manu.

LBJ has defenders in big Z, hughes and seems to have found a guy in Gibson who defends and can spot up for his drives to give him space along with gooden and marshall.

the round below has the jazz and pistons who definitely keep defenders and shooters to augment their main scorers.

to be a true contender the knicks are going to have to either specialize some players or trade/sign/draft for them.

Marbury and Q play defense out of the starters and are basically the only ones you can call good defenders out of the starters and while frye can space the floor which is something the team needs .

if you aren't a star player you have to fit in as a role player and right now frye is the 5th option when the team is healthy behind Marbury , Curry Crawford and Richardson, guys like lee , balkman , rose and jeffries are fine as 5th options, Frye as of yet isn't and thats why i think he needs to go, if Thomas or frye cant find a way for Channing to be at least the 3rd option his talent is being seriously wasted and just as importantly the team suffers.

of course thats just my opinion but I think you have to put players in a position to be successful for the team to benefit from their talents, I dont see that with the knicks with the current player make up and coaching .


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## knickstorm (Jun 22, 2003)

Da Grinch said:


> of course thats just my opinion but I think you have to put players in a position to be successful for the team to benefit from their talents, I dont see that with the knicks with the current player make up and coaching .


Ditto.......that's the thing. Yes you bring KObe here and he invigorates NY Knicks basketball. But if you dont make a serious playoff run a year or two, KObe's got some early termination contract in 2009 and he'll just opt out. That's the thing with the knicks. Everyone wants to say hey LeBron doesnt have a supporting cast. The Heat won with poeple like Jason Williams, Posey, Haslem...........and i'll agree with you, talent wise...the knicks probably are at about the same level with those teams when you dont take the superstars into account. But it's not about talent, it about how well you figure out your role and then perform it.

Talent doesnt always win. Based on pure talent, DAllas or Phoenix should have won. The sum of the whole is greater than the parts.....that's how the SPurs win. THat's how Detroit beat the Lakers a couple years ago. THe knicks might have some parts, but unless role players do exactly that, play roles, the whole for the knicks will NEVER be greater than the sume of the parts.


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