# Sebastian Telfair vs. Sergio Rodriguez



## Yega1979 (Mar 22, 2003)

There were many similarities to Sergio and Sebastian as they were coming into the NBA.
Both players were seen as "magicians" with the ball, under-sized, but able to make jaw dropping passes.

With Sebastian, we rarely saw this play making ability in actual games, which was disappointing. He was mostly a player who could score off his dribble penetration, but suffered from a inconsistant jumpshot.

Now, Sergio is wowing coaches in practice, and will probably end up being our main backup PG instead of Dickau. How will his play compare to Telfair? Will he look nearly as good in NBA games as he's looking in practice?

At nbadraft.net, they compare Rodriguez to Jason Williams(because he's white?), which I don't like, as Jason has been a sub-mediocre player with his turnovers and low shooting percentage. But Sergio is noted to be a good shooter, which also distinguishes him from Telfair.

So, final question, is Rodriguez a better overall prospect than Sebastian Telfair was coming out of highschool? And how many of you would rather have him right now as opposed to Telfair?


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## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

Yega1979 said:


> There were many similarities to Sergio and Sebastian as they were coming into the NBA.
> Both players were seen as "magicians" with the ball, under-sized, but able to make jaw dropping passes.
> 
> With Sebastian, we rarely saw this play making ability in actual games, which was disappointing. He was mostly a player who could score off his dribble penetration, but suffered from a inconsistant jumpshot.
> ...


Rodriguez is listed at 6'3" - I'm not sure anyone viewed him as undersized.

I think the comparison to Jason Williams is less for lack of pigment and more the fact that they both have had a tendency to go for the 'showboat' play rather than the solid pass. They both tend to put up ill advised three pointers too. If skin tone was all that made that comparison, why doesn't anybody compare him to Steve Blake? Because Blake is a solid player who doesn't make dumb mistakes. Rodriguez may end up being good - but he'll need to overcome the tendency to try to make the spectacular play, when the solid play is what's needed.


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## Foulzilla (Jan 11, 2005)

Yega1979 said:


> So, final question, is Rodriguez a better overall prospect than Sebastian Telfair was coming out of highschool? And how many of you would rather have him right now as opposed to Telfair?


No. That's not to say he can't be better, but Telfair was taken 13. Sergio was taken 29 in what was considered a weak draft. I think that says how pro scouts view them as prospects.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

Foulzilla said:


> No. That's not to say he can't be better, but Telfair was taken 13. Sergio was taken 29 in what was considered a weak draft. I think that says how pro scouts view them as prospects.



and manu ginoboli was taken when in which draft? and who was taken ahead of Tony Parker?

Was wally skerbiak was better than gino? or the other players taken ahead of him?

does that mean Raul Lopez and Jamaal Tinsley were better prospects than Parker?

placement of their selection does not mean better prospect or who will be better.


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## HispanicCausinPanic (Jul 2, 2005)

I love Bassy and his game. I'll miss him. With that said, I am very excited to watch Sergio and his no look passes. I don't know how, but some of you seem to be experts on Sergio and his game. You must have the Euro-League Pass. From what I saw of him in the tournament this summer he will have his ups and downs this season. He's not really Nate's kind of PG.(neither was Bass). You would think he would flourish in a more uptempo style of play. Playing in a slowed down halfcourt game does not play to his strengths. It will take him some time to get use to our game over here, but I don't think any of us know what he's going to do until we see him play. Good luck Sergio.


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## wastro (Dec 19, 2004)

I think the players are similar, but expectations are what seperates the two. Sergio isn't coming in, expected to be the future or the face of the franchise. He's just a backup with potential right now. Telfair was always pushed as the future of the team, and the expectations put on him were huge.

The size difference is there, too.


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## Yega1979 (Mar 22, 2003)

Fork said:


> Rodriguez is listed at 6'3" - I'm not sure anyone viewed him as undersized.
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> And he only weighs 170 pounds, so yes, people do consider him under-sized. Though I personally don't think the weight of a PG is much of a factor.


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## gatorpops (Dec 17, 2004)

A greased pig is smaller yet than either player. It is, however harder to corral and you have a hard time stopping it. 

My point is that Sergio is probably going to be at least as productive as Telfair because he is tricky, sneaky, and has a great change of pace, which Telfair did not, which enables him to get his pass off that if caught is usually at just the right place to do something with the ball, like score. 

(Wow! Got that all in in one sentence.)  

I liked Telfair, and I like Sergio even better. They will both be of great value to their teams.

gatopops


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

Telfair has been praised so far in Boston because of his playmaking ability and finding the open man. I think it was best for both teams, the move of Bassy


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## PorterIn2004 (Jan 1, 2003)

HispanicCausinPanic said:


> I love Bassy and his game. I'll miss him. With that said, I am very excited to watch Sergio and his no look passes. I don't know how, but some of you seem to be experts on Sergio and his game. You must have the Euro-League Pass. From what I saw of him in the tournament this summer he will have his ups and downs this season. He's not really Nate's kind of PG.(neither was Bass). You would think he would flourish in a more uptempo style of play. Playing in a slowed down halfcourt game does not play to his strengths. It will take him some time to get use to our game over here, but I don't think any of us know what he's going to do until we see him play. Good luck Sergio.


I hear you about the game pace, etc. Still, I don't think very many teams only play one way and, while I think Portland may mostly play to the strengths of guys like Zach and Magloire, I think there are plenty of guys who can run, particularly in coming years as Aldridge becomes more of a factor. Even this year, though, virtually all of the guards can run and then there're guys like Miles, Outlaw, and even Pryzbilla. 

And remember that a team can run without everyone on the floor being fast -- someone's gotta get the defensive rebound and make the outlet pass. Sergio running with Roy and any of Webster, Miles, or Outlaw might be pretty impressive.


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## ryanjend22 (Jan 23, 2004)

sergio isnt "white"...

beyond that, all i have is hype about this kid. i know little about him and i dont believe what blazers.com has to say about wowing performances in practice. time will tell.


people on here are expecting alot, but me, nah. if he pans out thats great, otherwise i wont be surprised if hes just another average guard.


..and would i rather have telfair? hell yes. we shouldnt have traded him in the first place IMO. but i understand and respect the move. i also understand he will flourish in boston. so expect that. but dont expect sergio to grace sports illustrated anytime soon.


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## aaabbbccc (Aug 26, 2006)

two new Sergio vids:

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/wRP__2boRgM"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/wRP__2boRgM" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/pNFg7Wr0krA"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/pNFg7Wr0krA" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>


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## Foulzilla (Jan 11, 2005)

Hap said:


> placement of their selection does not mean better prospect or who will be better.


I disagree. While it's not 100% accurate as it's up to some opinion, where you are drafted is a way of ranking prospects. Better prospect however is no guarantee of a better player.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

ryanjend22 said:


> sergio isnt "white"...


if he's from spain (and both his parents are of spanish decent) he is considered a caucasion.

not sure why that even matters (and I don't actually know, nor care, if his parents are both spanish).


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## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

ryanjend22 said:


> sergio isnt "white"...


Really?

Must be news to him, since he considers himself to be caucasian.


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## HispanicCausinPanic (Jul 2, 2005)

2 things that stood out from those highlights..........it looks like Sergio likes to take it to the rack instead of settleing for shooting a j. Also, he will give up the rock. There were a couple times where he could have shot, but made the unselfish pass. Looks like we'll have fun watching him play.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

aaabbbccc said:


> two new Sergio vids:
> 
> <object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/wRP__2boRgM"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/wRP__2boRgM" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>


holy crap, did you guys see the pass he made about 1:19 in???

or the one 2:16 into the 2nd one??

:clap: :eek8: :eek8: :eek8: :worship: :worship:


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## Justinmoney85 (Apr 10, 2006)

i've seen a lot of clips, but the two posted on this thread have truly amazed me. did anybody watch this kid play? how did he fall to late second round? i know he's flashy and will have to clean up his game a little but i am very pleased that we have this kid on the team.


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## Sambonius (May 21, 2003)

Justinmoney85 said:


> i've seen a lot of clips, but the two posted on this thread have truly amazed me. did anybody watch this kid play? how did he fall to late second round? i know he's flashy and will have to clean up his game a little but i am very pleased that we have this kid on the team.


He was a 1st round pick by the Suns, not 2nd.


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## wastro (Dec 19, 2004)

It is so much fun to watch Sergio play. He can pass that ball through a pinhole.


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## ryanjend22 (Jan 23, 2004)

Hap said:


> and manu ginoboli was taken when in which draft? and who was taken ahead of Tony Parker?
> 
> Was wally skerbiak was better than gino? or the other players taken ahead of him?
> 
> ...


that avy is kinda depressing everytime i see it.

just an observation.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

ryanjend22 said:


> that avy is kinda depressing everytime i see it.
> 
> just an observation.



keen obvservation. I'd suggest you listen to Surf's up (the album and the song) and the song 'till I die.


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## GOD (Jun 22, 2003)

First off, I was not a Bassy supporter and dont think he was the right fit for Nate or the current host of Blazers. I think he will be a decent PG but thats it. That being said, he took care of the ball well and certainly had brilliant flashes.

But that does not mean that Sergio is going to be much better. I don't know enough about him yet since I have not seen him play against NBA players. Some observations are that he is really quick in the mind and hand, but his foot speed does not seem to be good. His actually reminds me of Nash a little, but most players who are similar to Nash turn out to be duds. I think this year he will not make a dent in playing time and not deserve any. The following years, sky's the limit, but I'm just not going to hold my breath.


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## ryanjend22 (Jan 23, 2004)

Fork said:


> Really?
> 
> Must be news to him, since he considers himself to be caucasian.


looks spanish...and jesus, his name is sergio rodriguez.


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## ryanjend22 (Jan 23, 2004)

Hap said:


> holy crap, did you guys see the pass he made about 1:19 in???
> 
> or the one 2:16 into the 2nd one??
> 
> :clap: :eek8: :eek8: :eek8: :worship: :worship:


 :clap: those were nice...his stock just rose for me.


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## barfo (Jan 2, 2003)

ryanjend22 said:


> looks spanish...and jesus, his name is sergio rodriguez.


In the US, the term caucasian is usually used to mean 'of european descent'. Spain is in Europe, so Sergio is a white boy.

barfo


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## dudleysghost (Mar 24, 2006)

ryanjend22 said:


> looks spanish...and jesus, his name is sergio rodriguez.


It's OT a bit, but many spanish people are white, and Sergio certainly is pale. I think one might assume that a Spanish speaking person isn't considered white or caucasian because of the darker skin tones found among the people of mixed native and European descent in the Americas, but in Spain there are many light skinned people like SR.

The term "caucasian" has different meanings to different people. Colloquially in many English speaking countries, it has come to mean people with light colored skin of European descent. More literally, it refers to the Caucasus region, between the Black and Caspian Seas. Most traditionally though, the term comes from 19th century anthropologists' concept of racial groups based on skull morphology and actually includes people from throughout the Indo-Aryan groups, stretching from India, through the Middle East, into Russia, across Europe and even including parts of North Africa. That means yes, people from India or Arabia are technically Caucasians, and in many official government racial categorizations they are considered "white". You may also notice that the "caucasian" box on many standard forms is followed by the specification "non-hispanic" in parentheses, because hispanic would otherwise be included in that category.

That's a lot to say on this OT issue, I know, but I just recently learned about this and I think it's very strange. I lived my whole life not knowing that I was "white" until just a couple months ago. In any case, I really hope S-Rod can step up and be a real NBA PG soon. I'd rather not have Dickau play much, and I'd like to see Roy starting at SG and playing there full time, rather than backing up the PG spot.


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## HispanicCausinPanic (Jul 2, 2005)

dudleysghost said:


> It's OT a bit, but many spanish people are white, and Sergio certainly is pale. I think one might assume that a Spanish speaking person isn't considered white or caucasian because of the darker skin tones found among the people of mixed native and European descent in the Americas, but in Spain there are many light skinned people like SR.
> 
> The term "caucasian" has different meanings to different people. Colloquially in many English speaking countries, it has come to mean people with light colored skin of European descent. More literally, it refers to the Caucasus region, between the Black and Caspian Seas. Most traditionally though, the term comes from 19th century anthropologists' concept of racial groups based on skull morphology and actually includes people from throughout the Indo-Aryan groups, stretching from India, through the Middle East, into Russia, across Europe and even including parts of North Africa. That means yes, people from India or Arabia are technically Caucasians, and in many official government racial categorizations they are considered "white". You may also notice that the "caucasian" box on many standard forms is followed by the specification "non-hispanic" in parentheses, because hispanic would otherwise be included in that category.
> 
> That's a lot to say on this OT issue, I know, but I just recently learned about this and I think it's very strange. I lived my whole life not knowing that I was "white" until just a couple months ago. In any case, I really hope S-Rod can step up and be a real NBA PG soon. I'd rather not have Dickau play much, and I'd like to see Roy starting at SG and playing there full time, rather than backing up the PG spot.


Well I lived my whole life not knowing how "HANDSOME" I am. I'm half whiteboy/half Mexican. So according to you guys I'm officially full blooded whiteboy! I'm so confused. I'll talk to Sergio about this and see what he thinks. Adios!


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## Justinmoney85 (Apr 10, 2006)

Sambonius said:


> He was a 1st round pick by the Suns, not 2nd.


My bad, i know he was taken 27th overall, i don't really know why I typed second round, but regardless some mocks had him in the top 20.


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## tlong (Jan 6, 2003)

I would take the 6-3 Rodriquez over the 5-11 Telfair *any day!* Telfair sucks.


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## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

tlong said:


> I would take the 6-3 Rodriquez over the 5-11 Telfair *any day!* Telfair sucks.



You sound very ignorant when you make statements like that. Height has little to do with skill level. I hope Sergio becomes the best player in the league, but I think if you ask most people in the "know" they would tell you Telfair has more star potential.


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## tlong (Jan 6, 2003)

mediocre man said:


> You sound very ignorant when you make statements like that. Height has little to do with skill level. I hope Sergio becomes the best player in the league, but I think if you ask most people in the "know" they would tell you Telfair has more star potential.


That's ridiculous.


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## Verro (Jul 4, 2005)

ryanjend22 said:


> looks spanish...and jesus, his name is sergio rodriguez.


Hispanic really just means the culture or language came from Spain. In terms of lineal descent, those we generally think of as "Hispanics" are actually of native american descent. Spaniards are very fair skinned in comparison to Mexicans.


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## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

tlong said:


> That's ridiculous.




None of what I said was ridiculous. We all know you don't like Telfair for whatever reason, but he hasn't done anything except get better each year.


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## mook (Dec 31, 2002)

Rodriguez is only a year younger and has a good deal of international experience for his age. by next year we should be able to compare these two guys head to head and see who is better. 

clearly, Sergio's foot speed is nothing fantastic, but then John Stockton wasn't exactly a speed demon in the latter half of his career (while still averaging more than 8 assists a game). not saying he'll be anything near that good, but just that speed isn't everything.


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## tlong (Jan 6, 2003)

mediocre man said:


> None of what I said was ridiculous. We all know you don't like Telfair for whatever reason, but he hasn't done anything except get better each year.


Everything you said was ridiculous. You ever wonder why the NBA isn't filled with guys under 6 feet tall? It's because *size matters!* Telfair is completely over-hyped. He couldn't even win the regular starting position on a team that won 21 games! In my opinion his game was not markedly improved in his 2nd season over his 1st.


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## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

tlong said:


> Everything you said was ridiculous. You ever wonder why the NBA isn't filled with guys under 6 feet tall? It's because *size matters!* Telfair is completely over-hyped. He couldn't even win the regular starting position on a team that won 21 games! In my opinion his game was not markedly improved in his 2nd season over his 1st.




Actually Telfair DID win the starting possition. He hurt his thumb and didn't regain his starting spot, which is taboo on almost every other team, in every league. There are plenty of players that are at or withing an inch of 6' in the NBA, and NONE of them have Telfair's speed. While being tall, or long is more important at other possitions, pg is not one of them. Hell, Mighty Midget won rookie of the year in Toronto. Ask GM's around the league if any of them would turn down Earl Boynkins if he wanted to play for them.


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## HispanicCausinPanic (Jul 2, 2005)

tlong said:


> Everything you said was ridiculous. You ever wonder why the NBA isn't filled with guys under 6 feet tall? It's because *size matters!* Telfair is completely over-hyped. He couldn't even win the regular starting position on a team that won 21 games! In my opinion his game was not markedly improved in his 2nd season over his 1st.


Wow! You must have a sick crossover and a nice jumper to say Bassy sucks. Yes Telfair was very hyped. Deservedly so in my opinion. What he accomplished playing against the comp of the New York City highschool league was amazing. He has a star quality about him. Portland for one reason or another wasn't a good fit. If he gets into a fast break system, watch out. But just to say he sucks, that's pretty weak! At least show that you have the knowledge of the game of basketball to be able to acknowledge a player with skills. There are a bunch of players in the league who for one reason or another I don't like there personality or style of play. With that said, I would never say they suck. I think you have to make a better argument then '"He Sucks". But like I said before, maybe you've got a sick crossover, so you can say he sucks.-Peace Out


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## tlong (Jan 6, 2003)

HispanicCausinPanic said:


> Wow! You must have a sick crossover and a nice jumper to say Bassy sucks. Yes Telfair was very hyped. Deservedly so in my opinion. What he accomplished playing against the comp of the New York City highschool league was amazing. He has a star quality about him. Portland for one reason or another wasn't a good fit. If he gets into a fast break system, watch out. But just to say he sucks, that's pretty weak! At least show that you have the knowledge of the game of basketball to be able to acknowledge a player with skills. There are a bunch of players in the league who for one reason or another I don't like there personality or style of play. With that said, I would never say they suck. I think you have to make a better argument then '"He Sucks". But like I said before, maybe you've got a sick crossover, so you can say he sucks.-Peace Out


Maybe I should qualify it by saying "He sucks compared to other NBA point guards?" The dude has no jumper and he doesn't finish well at the rack.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

ryanjend22 said:


> looks spanish...and jesus, his name is sergio rodriguez.



as others have said, Spain is not exactly that far away from France (actually, iirc, next door)..which is next door to Italy and close to Germany (no wonder Germany invaded).

in the long run, it doesn't matter if he's white, caucasion, persian, or of the homosexual persuasion. If he plays good, thats what matters.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

HispanicCausinPanic said:


> Well I lived my whole life not knowing how "HANDSOME" I am. I'm half whiteboy/half Mexican. So according to you guys I'm officially full blooded whiteboy! I'm so confused. I'll talk to Sergio about this and see what he thinks. Adios!


mixing issues here (no pun intended). Mexicans (or Native Americans as they originally were..well, Native People actually) weren't considered caucasions, but the guys from Spain were. So it's not like someone is saying because he has some "white" in him, he's white..but that people of spain are considered (mostly) caucasions. 

Just like people from Brazil reffer to themselves as "americans", it's just our xenophobic and chip on our shoulder thinking that we think of US as the only "americans". Same with the "caucasion" thing. It's not us "taking credit" for someone because we want him, but because thats the area he's from. 

If his mom was Spanish, and his dad was say...Nigerian, thats one thing. If both of his parents are of Spanish stock (as in, from Spain) thats basically no different than if someone is from France.

How come, tho, if someone is from France and he's reffered to as "caucasion" or "white" no one has a cow? They're not that much different from each other. Same with Italy (minus the talking with hands bit. rrrrrrrrim shot)


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## HispanicCausinPanic (Jul 2, 2005)

Hap said:


> as others have said, Spain is not exactly that far away from France (actually, iirc, next door)..which is next door to Italy and close to Germany (no wonder Germany invaded).
> 
> in the long run, it doesn't matter if he's white, caucasion, persian, or of the homosexual persuasion. If he plays good, thats what matters.


Hap, did I read correctly? Did you say Sergio is Homosexual?(Not that there's anything wrong with that.)


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

HispanicCausinPanic said:


> Hap, did I read correctly? Did you say Sergio is Homosexual?(Not that there's anything wrong with that.)


[ 7th grade humor ]i know he's a ****. a homosapian! [/ 7th grade humor]


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## hasoos (Jan 3, 2003)

Hap said:


> and manu ginoboli was taken when in which draft? and who was taken ahead of Tony Parker?
> 
> Was wally skerbiak was better than gino? or the other players taken ahead of him?
> 
> ...



:clap: Kudos Hap! :clap: 

:clown:


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## The Professional Fan (Nov 5, 2003)

I bet if Nate tells Sergio to be a "pass first" PG, Sergio will comply.

Would Telfair?


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## Foulzilla (Jan 11, 2005)

The Professional Fan said:


> I bet if Nate tells Sergio to be a "pass first" PG, Sergio will comply.
> 
> Would Telfair?


Sure sounds like Nate thought he did.



Nate McMillan said:


> We don't have great perimeter shooters. That took away from Sebastian's game, his ability to create and drive. I'll give him credit: He tried to play the way we wanted to play. But it tied him down. It didn't allow him the freedom to get up and down the court and create.


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## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

The Professional Fan said:


> I bet if Nate tells Sergio to be a "pass first" PG, Sergio will comply.
> 
> Would Telfair?




I think Telfair would have given it his best effort. Telfair is not a pass first pg. It's up to the coach to adapt to the players he has. Nate finally gets that. He is going to slow the ball down even more than last year when the team scored an NBA low ppg. Telfair belongs in a system where you push the ball. Hopefully in Boston he will get that opportunity.


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## dudleysghost (Mar 24, 2006)

Any predictions on how well Telfair will do this year? What kind of numbers? Will he even start over Delonte West and Rajon Rondo? Will his playoff prediction come true?

My guesses are: he will win the starting job, be about a 13 ppg 43%FG 5apg player, and Boston will end up the 10th seed in the East with around 38 wins. Later in his career Telfair will follow a Jason Williams like trajectory in his career, getting attention for flash in the next couple years and eventually settling down and playing as a more traditional point guard as he nears the age of 30. He'll be good, but won't be an all-star.


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## mook (Dec 31, 2002)

> My guesses are: he will win the starting job, be about a 13 ppg 43%FG 5apg player, and Boston will end up the 10th seed in the East with around 38 wins. Later in his career Telfair will follow a Jason Williams like trajectory in his career, getting attention for flash in the next couple years and eventually settling down and playing as a more traditional point guard as he nears the age of 30. He'll be good, but won't be an all-star.


probably about right. there's a need out there for Jason Williamses and Jamaal Tinsleys and Andre Millers. not everybody gets to be a superstar. in truth, Rodriguez might be headed for a similar "decent but not All-Star kind of fate. 

not bad picks, either, given where they were drafted.


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## Blazer Maven (Sep 27, 2005)

tlong said:


> Maybe I should qualify it by saying "He sucks compared to other NBA point guards?" The dude has no jumper and he doesn't finish well at the rack.


You should qualify it further. 

Certain parts of his game suck, especially defense and his passing in the half court. He does not see the court as well as Blake and Jack do.

His shooting from long range has improved and his form is good. His weakness is with the mid range jumper, the one that Chris Paul has down flat.

Bassy can finish at the rack, far better than say, Damon Stoudamire. He is especially good at finishing with the left hand. What he lacks is the strength to finish in traffic, which also plagues other skinny PG's like Steve Blake.


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