# Similar team, more hope?



## twinz2gether (May 24, 2003)

u know, we got antawn jamison, but thats really it, and im really not sure if this guy is even an improvement to our team, our big improvement was getting rid of stack, lol.

but i mean were a young team and we did the right thing, we just have to wait on them and im really feeling like this year will be the year. but i also hope next season we can nab some guys who can play without the ball.


----------



## HoopsAvenue05 (Jul 20, 2004)

I think we are a lot different next year actually. Most of the personnel is the same, but we traded veterans (Stack/Laettner) in for a fast, young team. We've got a lot of young guys growing up together and those type of teams that stick together can be scary. A big thing is Arenas will feel like the team leader next season with Stack gone so I expect him to play with more maturity. I think Kwame probably feels like a veteran now, too, and he's going to step up.


----------



## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>twinz2gether</b>!
> u know, we got antawn jamison, but thats really it, and im really not sure if this guy is even an improvement to our team, our big improvement was getting rid of stack, lol.
> 
> but i mean were a young team and we did the right thing, we just have to wait on them and im really feeling like this year will be the year. but i also hope next season we can nab some guys who can play without the ball.


Man we've added the 6th man of the year to our team a true sf a 20ppg scorer what more do you want. We have size at the 3 now. 

We have other good young players. 

If we stay healthy we'll make the playoffs and have a good seed in doing so. 

We have a much better team on the floor and in the lockeroom. 

Good things ahead


----------



## twinz2gether (May 24, 2003)

Lol really not much to talk about right now, i hate offseason.


----------



## dominikan_balla1 (Aug 4, 2004)

the wizards will not make the playoffs next year (i promise)
...specially gettin a cancer player in antawn jamison


----------



## Shanghai Kid (Mar 7, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>dominikan_balla1</b>!
> the wizards will not make the playoffs next year (i promise)
> ...specially gettin a cancer player in antawn jamison


Since when did Jamison become a cancer? He was brought in because he is a positive locker room influence.


----------



## afireinside (Jan 8, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>dominikan_balla1</b>!
> the wizards will not make the playoffs next year (i promise)
> ...specially gettin a cancer player in antawn jamison


Usually 6th Men of the Year are good players and aren't a cancer. Just usually tough..


----------



## CP26 (May 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>dominikan_balla1</b>!
> the wizards will not make the playoffs next year (i promise)
> ...specially gettin a cancer player in antawn jamison


Do you even know anything about basketball?


----------



## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

Personally, I have less hope this season for the Wizards than I did last year. Last offseason, I thought the Wizards were looking solid, and were primed to make a run at the postseason in the East. Obviously that didn't happen, and I personally don't believe Washington got that much better, if at all. I know I'm in the minority because most like the Jamison trade, but I don't think he's the kind of guy that'll be a big difference maker on this team, especially not for the price of Stackhouse, Laettner AND a Top 5 pick.


----------



## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> Personally, I have less hope this season for the Wizards than I did last year. Last offseason, I thought the Wizards were looking solid, and were primed to make a run at the postseason in the East. Obviously that didn't happen, and I personally don't believe Washington got that much better, if at all. I know I'm in the minority because most like the Jamison trade, but I don't think he's the kind of guy that'll be a big difference maker on this team, especially not for the price of Stackhouse, Laettner AND a Top 5 pick.


Come on man think about what you're saying. What was Stack gonna give us. He was an undersized sf with a bad knee. Laetner was giving us NOTHING and the 5th pick was adding another young player to an already young team. 

Jamison isn't a savior we don't need him to be we're gonna be pretty good anyway but he adds scoring ,a good lockeroom guy and size at the sf spot. 

You must simply don't like the Wizards to say we're not much better. PLus Kwame's a year more experienced after having a good year last season. 

With the teams in the East falling off some I think we're primed to be very good this season if we stay healthy. 

There are few teams in the East with our size and skill on the perimeter. 

We're gonna be a top 5 team in the East this season you watch and see.


----------



## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jazzy1</b>!
> 
> 
> Come on man think about what you're saying. What was Stack gonna give us. He was an undersized sf with a bad knee. Laetner was giving us NOTHING and the 5th pick was adding another young player to an already young team.
> ...


Jamison is an overpaid guy on a long term contract. by trading for him and giving away Laettner's expiring deal, the ability of Washington to resign their key players in the future goes down. Not to mention that Jamison is not that great to begin with, although he's a nice 2nd or 3rd option to a superstar. Still, why give up cap room and a Top 5 pick for him, his max contract and cancerous reputation? 



> You must simply don't like the Wizards to say we're not much better. PLus Kwame's a year more experienced after having a good year last season.


Not true. I like the Wizards, I just don't think they've gotten better. Like I said, I know I'm in the minority because I strongly dislike the Jamison trade, but I think you're being thickheaded if you can't possibly fathom someone not thinking the Wizards are better.



> With the teams in the East falling off some I think we're primed to be very good this season if we stay healthy.


Who fell off besides New Jersey? Several of the teams at the level of Washington got better too.


----------



## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> 
> Jamison is an overpaid guy on a long term contract. by trading for him and giving away Laettner's expiring deal, the ability of Washington to resign their key players in the future goes down. Not to mention that Jamison is not that great to begin with, although he's a nice 2nd or 3rd option to a superstar. Still, why give up cap room and a Top 5 pick for him, his max contract and cancerous reputation?
> 
> ...



Cancerous reputation you must know something that an actual NBA GM doesn't know in Ernie G. Don Nelson the man's coach last season talked about Jamison GREAT ATITUDE last season so what are you saying. 

Again let me give you an update, just in case you didn't know Stack and Laetner were cancers HERE last season. With the money owed Stack and the 5th picks contract the money difference isn't that steep a difference to Jamison's contract. 

Now the 5th pick wouldn't help us one aiota next season. 

Not one. 

He'd be young and sitting behind another young player is all. 

Now don't tell me the Nets haven't slipped , the Hornets going West and the Bobcats coming in haven't changed things. The Bucks losing their big in Skinner who was a big help there last season doesn't change things. I think the Cavs are slipping losing Boozer also. 

Celtics have gotten younger which hurts them . Sure some teams have obviously improved like the Heat, but I think with the Wizards improvement we have moved past some teams. 

The Bulls I think are stuck where they are. 

We just gpt the 6th man of the year not a made up award but an award given by people that know and you say we haven't improved. 

Just your opinion so I respect it but your rationale for it to me is questionable. 

I think you're under the wrong impression as if Jamison is coming here to be our centerpiece and you'd be wrong he comes here just to help not be some sort of franchise player. 

I think the Wizards know better than that. 

As a contributing factor he proved he can help a winning team and I see no reason why we can't win here. 

Last season was an abberatioon with the Wizards because we had injuries to every major player we have. 

So the record was bad based on injuries not just bad play. 

We were forced to play very inexperienced players big minutes when they should have been sitting back learning the pro game. 

But those minutes last season will help us this season. 

We are better based on the maturation process but we've added what wins in this league which is vet players in Peeler and Jamison plus we added a steal in Ramos. 

Who I think will be a contributor next season.


----------



## Shanghai Kid (Mar 7, 2003)

Jazzy, don't bother, I have already argued with Hobojoe on the general board for pgs and pgs. Look at his sig, if he doesn't hate the Wiz, he sure loves mocking Wiz fans.

The bottom line is, their aren't many players in the league that would of improved our offense more than Jamison will. The reason is, on offense, we needed a high percentage SF more than anything else. Defensively, we can't be any worse than last season. We gave up like 30 points to every average or above average SF.


----------



## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Shanghai Kid</b>!
> Jazzy, don't bother, I have already argued with Hobojoe on the general board for pgs and pgs. Look at his sig, if he doesn't hate the Wiz, he sure loves mocking Wiz fans.


I don't hate the Wiz, nor do I enjoy mocking Wiz fans. Many of you seem to believe the Wizards will be a playoff team, and I just don't think so. What's wrong with a little bet kinda thing? If I'm wrong, I'll look just as stupid if not stupider than you for having it in my sig, and don't think I'm taking it down, because I promise you I won't until the season is completely over. 



> The bottom line is, their aren't many players in the league that would of improved our offense more than Jamison will. The reason is, on offense, we needed a high percentage SF more than anything else. Defensively, we can't be any worse than last season. We gave up like 30 points to every average or above average SF.


Offense is not the problem with the Wizards. There is only one ball, having all these very good offensive players isn't going to make up for the fact that they can't play defense. The Wizards are going to score their points this year, there's no question about that, but they'll probably be near the bottom in defense as well. Right now, I think they're a poor man's version of the Mavs the past few seasons. Notice I say poor, because they're not as good offensively, they don't have one player individually as good as Dirk Nowitzki offensively, and at PG the Mavs had a leader and a I guy who was smart with the ball in Steve Nash. In Washington, that's not the case, Arenas is not smart with the ball at all, and is more of a score first PG or a combo guard. Defensively, I think they're as bad, or even worse than the Mavs have been the past few years. I don't think this is going to translate into many victories this year, despite playing in the East vs. the Mavs playing in the West. I still think they're at least a year away. I think if they had just not made that trade for Jamison, they'd be looking much better for the present and future. They'd be in better shape financially to resign their core players, as well as talent-wise with a guy like Luol Deng or Andre Iguodala thrown into the mix.


----------



## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jazzy1</b>!
> 
> 
> Cancerous reputation you must know something that an actual NBA GM doesn't know in Ernie G. Don Nelson the man's coach last season talked about Jamison GREAT ATITUDE last season so what are you saying.


I didn't say he was a cancer, he just has that reputation. Don't get me wrong, I like Jamison a lot as a player, I just don't think he's a good fit in Washington at all. 



> Again let me give you an update, just in case you didn't know Stack and Laetner were cancers HERE last season. With the money owed Stack and the 5th picks contract the money difference isn't that steep a difference to Jamison's contract.


That's debateable. The difference is still big enough. Jamison is on a max contract, Stackhouse is only in the $7-8 Million range I believe, and the difference including the #5 overall pick is still about $5 Million. 



> Now the 5th pick wouldn't help us one aiota next season.
> 
> Not one.
> 
> He'd be young and sitting behind another young player is all.


Luol Deng, Andre Iguodala or Luke Jackson absolutely would help the Wizards this year. It makes little to no sense to pass up on one of those guys in my opinion.



> Now don't tell me the Nets haven't slipped


I'm not, I actually said the Nets did indeed slip.



> the Hornets going West and the Bobcats coming in haven't changed things. The Bucks losing their big in Skinner who was a big help there last season doesn't change things.


Solid Points.



> I think the Cavs are slipping losing Boozer also.


You have to look deeper than that. They lost Boozer, but Gooden isn't much of a step down, he could breakout this year. Add in the fact that they have Luke Jackson, and LeBron's anticipated improvement, you have to think the Cavs are on the rise despite losing Boozer.



> Celtics have gotten younger which hurts them .


The Celtics have three excellent rookies who should have a big impact right away. They retained Mark Blount as well.



> Sure some teams have obviously improved like the Heat, but I think with the Wizards improvement we have moved past some teams.


Again, it all goes back to this. This is where we disagree, and I guess nothing will settle it until they play the season. I don't think the Wizards have improved, I explained why in several of my posts, including in depth in my last post responding to Shanghai Kid. 



> The Bulls I think are stuck where they are.


Gordon is a leading contender for ROY, Nocioni will have a big impact, Deng is a nice player(who the Wizards should have) that will be solid this year in every facet of the game.



> We just gpt the 6th man of the year not a made up award but an award given by people that know and you say we haven't improved.


It's not like you gave up nothing. I think you're undervaluing the Top 5 pick, not to mention an expiring deal(and your backup 4) and a proven 20 ppg scorer. All this, to add a more efficient version of Stackhouse on a max contract. Jamison doesn't play anything like Jamison, but the offensive production is what I'm comparing, which is similar. 



> Just your opinion so I respect it but your rationale for it to me is questionable.


What exactly have I said that doesn't make sense to you?



> I think you're under the wrong impression as if Jamison is coming here to be our centerpiece and you'd be wrong he comes here just to help not be some sort of franchise player.


I don't think that, but let's be honest, who on the Wizards is ready to be a franchise-caliber player right now? I don't think anyone is. Kwame could be in the future, so could Arenas, but neither are there yet. 



> As a contributing factor he proved he can help a winning team and I see no reason why we can't win here.


Once. Honestly, what could he have done to make Dallas not make the playoffs? If he had played horribly, the Mavs had the luxury of just being able to keep him on the bench, no problems. 



> Last season was an abberatioon with the Wizards because we had injuries to every major player we have.


Injuries happen. Fact is, several of the Wizards key players are injury prone, theres no reason to assume they won't get hurt again this year.



> So the record was bad based on injuries not just bad play.
> 
> We were forced to play very inexperienced players big minutes when they should have been sitting back learning the pro game.


Again, that could happen this year again.



> But those minutes last season will help us this season.


Not much. If you're depending on Steve Blake, Juan Dixon, Jarvis Hayes or Brendan Haywood to win a game, it's not going to be pretty.



> We are better based on the maturation process but we've added what wins in this league which is vet players in Peeler and Jamison


Peeler is not going to help very much at all, and I've already addressed Jamison.



> plus we added a steal in Ramos.
> 
> Who I think will be a contributor next season.


That I have to agree with you on. I love Ramos, I think he was a steal indeed. But is he really a difference maker? I sincerely doubt it, especially not right away.


----------



## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> 
> I didn't say he was a cancer, he just has that reputation. Don't get me wrong, I like Jamison a lot as a player, I just don't think he's a good fit in Washington at all.
> 
> ...


See you have selective reasoning. 

You're telling me Gordon, Deng and Niconin are gonna be all this and that but guys who have actually played in the league last year aren't gonna progress. 

You must have forgotten. Jarvis Hayes was 2nd team all rookie. Jared Jeffries in year 2 after and ACL and Steve Blake a very underrated player. 

Deng, Iggy and Luke Jackson all play sf, Neither of them are better than Hayes. The Bulls offered to trade for Hayes than to make their pick. So in essence they thought more of Hayes than they did Deng. 

So none of those players would get much time and why be redundant and take a sf for the 3rd year in a row thats unproven. Get it. 

Now your only real rationale for dissing Jamison is you don't think its a good fit. I think Stack makes around 9-10 mill another 2 for the 5th pick or 1 and change and that difference is only about 1-2 mill in difference maybe 3 at most. 

The Pistons don't have 1 franchise caliber player they do it with teamwork and balance. 

I think Kwame could break-out and Arenas is already a good player. 

Who exactly is injury prone WHOM on our roster is always hurt. I thought so. 

How exactly is Gordon gonna get so much playing time behind Hinrich and if you play both together they'll be the worst defensive backcourt in the league because neither can guard the sg spot worth a darn.

Bulls are stuck in place still waiting on young players to develop. You win with Vets. 

Okay now I see Jamsion was 6th man but made no imapct why did he even get the award. 

Again I've never heard Jamsion called cancerous in reputation you're just saying it to say something its not rooted in fact just your words. Nelson the mans coach says he was terrific as did Ernie G. 

Like I said no real basis for none of your post. 

You credit every other teams young players but run ours down. 

Delonte West, Tony Allen and Jefferson are supposed to take the league by storm thats comical. They will help the Celtics be better a couple years down the road the Celtics fortunes rests on Pierce, Blount and Rickey Davis the Vets not rookies. 


Yeah again speaking on a young player in Gordon who has no toughness and worse defense than Boozer. Plus he's a far worst rebounder but you expect a breakout thats even more comical. Save me the Luke Jackson stuff he might help some but losing a tough rugged pf and adding a lightweight is hilarious. 

You must think Lebron is superman. 

Again doesn't make much sense.


----------



## JoshSmith42 (Aug 16, 2004)

So Lebron ISN'T superman?


----------



## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

PG: Gilbert Arenas...Steve Blake...Juan Dixon
SG: Larry Hughes...Anthony Peeler
SF: Antawn Jamison...Jarvis Hayes...Jared Jeffries
PF: Kwame Brown...Samaki Walker...Michael Ruffin
C: Etan Thomas...Brendan Haywood...Peter John Ramos

The Wizards have done well in getting a more balanced team, 3/5 of their starting lineup are actually former GS Warriors. However, there is still something missing with this team and that is veteran leadership. I think they should trade Larry Hughes for some productive veteran backups and draft picks, and then start Jarvis Hayes at SG.


----------



## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jazzy1</b>!
> 
> You're telling me Gordon, Deng and Niconin are gonna be all this and that but guys who have actually played in the league last year aren't gonna progress.





> You must have forgotten. Jarvis Hayes was 2nd team all rookie. Jared Jeffries in year 2 after and ACL and Steve Blake a very underrated player.


You must forget(or want to forget) that Hayes got progressively worse as the season went along. I like Jeffries and Blake a lot, but let's be honest, neither will be anything more than average backups at best.



> Deng, Iggy and Luke Jackson all play sf, Neither of them are better than Hayes. The Bulls offered to trade for Hayes than to make their pick. So in essence they thought more of Hayes than they did Deng.


I think all three of those players could be better than Hayes this season. Who says Hayes is going to get better? Being young doesn't necessarily mean you'll get better. Hayes definitely didn't get better as the year went along.



> So none of those players would get much time and why be redundant and take a sf for the 3rd year in a row thats unproven. Get it.


No, it's not redundant. The other two have shown that they aren't the answer at that position.



> Now your only real rationale for dissing Jamison is you don't think its a good fit. I think Stack makes around 9-10 mill another 2 for the 5th pick or 1 and change and that difference is only about 1-2 mill in difference maybe 3 at most.


Stack makes $7 Million even this season, the number 5 pick makes $2 Million and change. And my reasoning for dissing Jamison is not only that he's not a good fit, he's just absolutely redundant for a squad full of players who can score around 20 ppg given the shots, and not play a lick of defense. He's not at all necessary on the team. 



> The Pistons don't have 1 franchise caliber player they do it with teamwork and balance.


Well, you got 2/3 of that right. The Pistons did it with teamwork, balance and *defense*. The Wizards have one of those three, and that's balance. They're horrendous defensively, and are full of selfish players. 



> I think Kwame could break-out and Arenas is already a good player.


I agree. 



> Who exactly is injury prone WHOM on our roster is always hurt. I thought so.


Larry Hughes? Gilbert Arenas(27 games missed last season, 35 in 01-02, only one healthy season). 



> How exactly is Gordon gonna get so much playing time behind Hinrich and if you play both together they'll be the worst defensive backcourt in the league because neither can guard the sg spot worth a darn.


Not like they're going to be a good defensive team anyway. Gordon is going to play SG, where he's better at anyway.



> Bulls are stuck in place still waiting on young players to develop. You win with Vets.


Not always true. 



> Okay now I see Jamsion was 6th man but made no imapct why did he even get the award.


I didn't say he didn't make an impact, but Dallas certainly could've survived without him. You realize you're saying your franchise is going to turn around because of the acquisition of the best _bench_ player in the league, don't you? Not to discount Jamison, winning 6th man is a fine accomplishment, but come on, you're talking about it like it's the MVP award. 



> Again I've never heard Jamsion called cancerous in reputation you're just saying it to say something its not rooted in fact just your words. Nelson the mans coach says he was terrific as did Ernie G.
> 
> 
> > You've never heard Jamison called a cancer? Wow. What are Nelson and Ernie G. going to say? They didn't trade him because he was as great as you're making him out to be. When was the last time you heard a coach or anyone like that call a player a cancer?
> ...


----------



## Shanghai Kid (Mar 7, 2003)

Hobojoe, Arenas missed games his 1rst season, not because of injuries, but because the team simply had him on the IR and wasn't willing to give him playing time. Only when Hughes got injured did they take Arenas off the IR and give him a chance. Hughes is the only player who has consistently gotten injuries every season, but Peeler and Hayes can definetly fill in. Jamison has the longest reigning streak of games played in the NBA, he's certainly not injury prone.

Jamison isn't redudant, he's a player who doesn't need the ball in his hands to score which perfectly compliments Gilbert Arenas and Kwame Brown . 

Why are you running down Hayes? It wasn't so much him regressing as the season went on as it was him getting exhausted. He wasn't ready for the playing time he got. But by all accounts, he was the best player at the Vegas Summer League, torching Luke Jackson and getting his shot off any time he wanted.

I think it's pretty stupid for you to figure that all the Bulls rookies and all the Celtics rookies are just going to be good contributors yet young players on the Wiz are just going to regress.

Why can't Peeler contribute next season? 

Since when did Jamison have a reputation as a cancer? By all accounts, he's a good lockerroom guy. 

Hobojoe, why are the Wizards going to be so bad defensively? Explain it to me please. I honestly want to know why the Wizards will be worse defensively then a team like Toronto or NY, please explain it to me.

Hobojoe, you keep giving hints like saying that L8 was our backup 4, that shows your not too educated on the Wizards situation. 

Honestly, in the East, how can you count out anybody? And did you read that Sports Illustrated article about the Wiz?


----------



## Pan Mengtu (Jun 18, 2004)

Wait a second, hobo... you don't like the Jamison trade because you think he contract is too big and he's a cancer? Well o.k., assuming that's true they still got rid of Stackhouse who has a big contract and is an even bigger cancer. Can't go wrong when you get rid of Stack.


----------



## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Shanghai Kid</b>!
> Jazzy, don't bother, I have already argued with Hobojoe on the general board for pgs and pgs. Look at his sig, if he doesn't hate the Wiz, he sure loves mocking Wiz fans.
> 
> The bottom line is, their aren't many players in the league that would of improved our offense more than Jamison will. The reason is, on offense, we needed a high percentage SF more than anything else. Defensively, we can't be any worse than last season. We gave up like 30 points to every average or above average SF.


My bad Shanghai had I read this I wouldn't have even started with this guy. My bad I get the picture now.


----------



## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Last time I'll read this post now that Shanghai has hipped me to your program. 

Hayes got progressively worse when the Wizards changed their priorities in the shot distribution department. They were playing perimeter more, early in the season and by mid season they were going inside to Kwame thus the drop PLUS HE WAS INJURED. 

Again the Bulls offered to trade for hayes as opposed to picking Deng. Thats a widely known fact . So its rational to say they liked Hayes more than they liked Deng which supports my point. 

Hayes and JJ are better as prospects than Iggy, Deng and Jackson. Iggy is really a 2 playing 3, Jackson plays no defense, and Deng is just okay. 

The Wizards aren't the Pistons but the basic formula the Wizards can win with use balance and teamwork. They have shot blockers so the defense will be okay not great but okay. 

Again who said Jamison was gonna be the spearhead for a turnaround when injuries caused the slide anyway. 

I think your premise that they should expect for their whole starting line-up to get injured is ridculous. Thats what basically occured last season no team had more key players injured then the Wizards did last season. 

Again another Jamison upgrade Stack has been nicked since hes been here and Jamison has been an iron man for the last 5 seasons. 

Again an upgrade Jamison gives us balance offensively like Shanghai illustrated brillantly because he doesn't requre the ball he'll mold well. 

You say West, Allen and Jefferson are more weapons to make the team better is different from saying they're gonna make the team much better. 

2 Guys who were reaches in the 1st rd and a highschool guy not named Lebron or Amare are gonna blow past the Wizards. Yeah okay. 

Gooden is not a very good rebounder nor defender nor inside presence. He's a soft jump shooting 6'10 guy with a few post moves and no strength. 

BTW I have been disputing your argument and come to the conclusion that they are preposterous get the point. 

I love Lebron he ain't superman he couldn't carry the team to the playoffs and I think your missing their key offseason acquire which is Eric Snow not Luke Jackson nor Gooden. 

Snow a solid gritty vet who brigns toughness defense and a good lockeroom presence is what will help them improve. 

I like Luke Jackson but I don't expect a record altering player I expect a shooter who can help open the floor but because his defense is so terrible won't get enough burn to have an influence. 

I really don't care what your opinion is about the Wizards chances this up coming season but what IRKS me is the idea that anyone doesn't like the move of getting Jamiison. 

You obvioulsy don't watch the Wizards often or you wouldn't have that opinion. 

He adds in areas that we were weak both on and off the court. 

Getting Stack and laet 2 malcontents outta here and dumping a lottery pick for a proven vet who doesn't need the ball in his hands blends perfectly with what the Wizards need. 

We have had lottery picks up the backside here, Wizards fans don't want anymore unless they are franchise turning ones and neither Iggy,Deng nor Jackson are even close to that level. 

They are on the level or below with the ones we already have. 

Like I said Gordon isn't gonna imapct the bottomeline at all with the Bulls getting posted up all season foul trouble will run him outta games playing the sg spot. 

I like the kid but I'm not kidding myself about whats gonna happen.


----------



## adarsh1 (May 28, 2003)

"You must forget(or want to forget) that Hayes got progressively worse as the season went along. I like Jeffries and Blake a lot, but let's be honest, neither will be anything more than average backups at best"

Let's be honest...Blake is a very good point guard...he is a control point and he could start for some of the teams out there...now jeffries on the other hand i think will never fully recover from the acl and will be a backup pf/sf for the rest of his career.... hayes is a good shooter but he will not get worse next year...how is it that young players on other teams won't get worse"


"I think all three of those players could be better than Hayes this season. Who says Hayes is going to get better? Being young doesn't necessarily mean you'll get better. Hayes definitely didn't get better as the year went along."

Being young doesn't necessarily mean taht in your rookie season you are going to pan out...the only player in that bunch that i liked was luke jackson cuz he is a hayes type player and we could have two good perimeter shooters in hayes and jackson to complement arenas, kwame, and hughes

"No, it's not redundant. The other two have shown that they aren't the answer at that position."

Isn't it a little too early to tell that Hayes and Jeffries aren't the answer at the small forward position. Hayes is going into his second season after an all rookie second team appearance...and this is basically jeffries's first normal offseason because the first two years he was rehabbing from that acl tear or injury or whatever



(post #19)

quote:
Originally posted by jazzy1!

You're telling me Gordon, Deng and Niconin are gonna be all this and that but guys who have actually played in the league last year aren't gonna progress.



quote:
You must have forgotten. Jarvis Hayes was 2nd team all rookie. Jared Jeffries in year 2 after and ACL and Steve Blake a very underrated player.

You must forget(or want to forget) that Hayes got progressively worse as the season went along. I like Jeffries and Blake a lot, but let's be honest, neither will be anything more than average backups at best.

quote:
Deng, Iggy and Luke Jackson all play sf, Neither of them are better than Hayes. The Bulls offered to trade for Hayes than to make their pick. So in essence they thought more of Hayes than they did Deng.

I think all three of those players could be better than Hayes this season. Who says Hayes is going to get better? Being young doesn't necessarily mean you'll get better. Hayes definitely didn't get better as the year went along.

quote:
So none of those players would get much time and why be redundant and take a sf for the 3rd year in a row thats unproven. Get it.

No, it's not redundant. The other two have shown that they aren't the answer at that position.

quote:
Now your only real rationale for dissing Jamison is you don't think its a good fit. I think Stack makes around 9-10 mill another 2 for the 5th pick or 1 and change and that difference is only about 1-2 mill in difference maybe 3 at most.

"Stack makes $7 Million even this season, the number 5 pick makes $2 Million and change. And my reasoning for dissing Jamison is not only that he's not a good fit, he's just absolutely redundant for a squad full of players who can score around 20 ppg given the shots, and not play a lick of defense. He's not at all necessary on the team."

And laettner makes 6,187,500 this year. Added together Devin Harris's, Jerry Stackhouse's, and Christian Laettner's contract equals 15,929,380. However, Antawn Jamison's contract is only 12, 584, 688. So the Wizards also cut cap.


"Well, you got 2/3 of that right. The Pistons did it with teamwork, balance and defense. The Wizards have one of those three, and that's balance. They're horrendous defensively, and are full of selfish players"

They are bad defensively not horrendous. Yes, the only doubt with this team is whether Gilbert and Larry will give up the ball. Those are the only two selfish players on this team.

"I agree. "
Yep, I agree too:yes: 

"Larry Hughes? Gilbert Arenas(27 games missed last season, 35 in 01-02, only one healthy season)."

I think Shanghai or Jazzy mentioned thsi but GSW put Arenas on the IR his first season even though he didn't get injured


"Not like they're going to be a good defensive team anyway. Gordon is going to play SG, where he's better at anyway"

They aren't going to be a good defensive team. Yes, putting Gordon at SG is a good position for him but still he is too short to cover any sg's

"Not always true"

Name me one situation where young players with no vets have one

"I didn't say he didn't make an impact, but Dallas certainly could've survived without him. You realize you're saying your franchise is going to turn around because of the acquisition of the best bench player in the league, don't you? Not to discount Jamison, winning 6th man is a fine accomplishment, but come on, you're talking about it like it's the MVP award."

The franchise will not turn around but they have added the sixth man of the year who can be counted on for 20 points and 8 rebounds. Also Jamison takes some pressure off Kwame so he can develop.

"What's comical is the way you put words in my mouth. They're not the center of the team, they're more weapons around Pierce to make the team better."

The only person on the celtics who can be counted on to produce is Tony Allen. West is only a sophomore and Jefferson is coming straight out of high school

"Gooden is a very good rebounder, he's more than capable of a double-double this season. Luke Jackson still flies under the radar"

Gooden is not a very good rebounder.. He averages less than 7 boards per game...However Luke Jackson does fly under the radar

"Nope, but a Top 5 shooting guard in the league this season."

So true

1. Kobe
2. Tmac
3. Lebron
4. Michael Redd
5. Lebron James


----------



## Shanghai Kid (Mar 7, 2003)

Hobojoe, you should really stay off the Wiz board if your just going to come over and hate on our all players and our team. You say we're going to be that bad defensively, but theirs no reason why we'll be any worse defensively than a team like NY who everybody is picking to win the Atlantic Division. On the other hand, the Wizards have two legit low post players in Kwame and Jamison, they make up one of the best forward cominbations in the East to go with one of the best backcourts in the East in Arenas/Hughes. A team like Orlando may be in trouble since they have the equivalent of Arenas/Hughes in Francis/Mobley, but don't have ANY low post game. 

In the starting line-up, the Wizards Hughes, Haywood, and Kwame, all those guys are above average defenders and Haywood is a very good C. Off the bench they have Peeler and Etan, Peeler was one of the best perimeter defenders in the league last season and Etan was 2nd in the league in blocked shots off the bench. 

Arenas is a very capable defender. We're talking about a 6'3 player with a near 6'10 wingspan. He was never tought to play defense in Golden State, but Eddie Jordan is going to preach it this year. If the Wizards can just be an average defensive team to go with a spectacular offense that will be enough to make the playoffs. Now how do YOU like them apples?


----------



## prlindo (Aug 22, 2004)

Ramos will surprise you guys don't worry Kwame Brown is bound to have a breakout season maybe this is his year


----------



## CP26 (May 8, 2003)

> Hayes and JJ are better as prospects than Iggy, Deng and Jackson. Iggy is really a 2 playing 3, Jackson plays no defense, and Deng is just okay.


I'm not so sure if Jeffries is even considered a prospect anymore :laugh:


----------



## Sánchez AF (Aug 10, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>dominikan_balla1</b>!
> the wizards will not make the playoffs next year (i promise)
> ...specially gettin a cancer player in antawn jamison


Jamison is not a cancer he's a great team player


----------



## alchemist (Apr 11, 2003)

I agree with what you say, since I'm a huge Wizards fan. But this is your list of the top 5 SG's?


> 1. Kobe
> 2. Tmac
> 3. Lebron
> 4. Michael Redd
> 5. Lebron James (again?)


I'd replace #3 with Ray Allen, and maybe add Allen Iverson, Paul Pierce, Vince Carter, or even Richard Hamilton. But I don't want to change the subject. Go Wizards.


----------



## adarsh1 (May 28, 2003)

i meant ray allen at three..
I think Pierce has dropped off some and Carter has injury issues
Right now Iverson is a point guard

I think Michael Redd is one of the most underrated players in this league

When he becomes a free agent in two year, i hope the wizards thorw all their money at him


----------



## alchemist (Apr 11, 2003)

I agree about Redd- he's got a skill that's not common across the league. He can make outside shots. I'd love to have him on my team.


----------



## CP26 (May 8, 2003)

hobojoe where are you?


----------



## dkg1 (May 31, 2002)

If you read every post in the thread, Hobo wasn't the only guy who has egg on his face. The Bulls did quite well despite having rookies Deng, Gordon, Nocioni and Duhon as 4 vital cogs in their 8 man rotation this year. They dispelled the belief that you win because of veterans. Prior to season ending injuries, their top 8 players were Gordon, Hinrich, Duhon, Curry, Chandler, Nocioni, and either A.D. or Othella depending on the game. Also, while they didn't start together, Gordon and Hinrich did all right in the backcourt together and somehow the Bulls still managed to be one of the top defensive teams in the NBA. I also think if given the choice, most people would take Deng over Hayes. Some guys also seemed to underestimate the impact Gordon would have on the team. Oh well, not many people look good when these threads are brought back up at the end of the year. They are fun to look back on though.


----------

