# Still think Kirilenko is overrated?



## JerryWest (Jun 24, 2002)

I've been one of the people whose been claiming that Kirilenko is the top SF in the league, ahead of Peja and Artest.

I know it is only one game, but I stand by my statement.

Just because he doesn't average 20 pts a game doesn't mean he can't be a top 10 player.

He doesn't need to be a center either, you can feel his defensive prescence all over.

I am a huge Kobe fan, but look at the effect Kirilenko had on him and the Lakers team early this game.

Also don't know how some jazz fan were arguing on his contract. Look at the money you have okur for god sakes.


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## Hov (Aug 12, 2003)

Like Bill Walton said, it may not look like it on the boxscore, but Kirilenko just dominated out there.


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

I still don't understand how it came to be that he was overrated. You can't really overrate AK unless you call him the best player in the league.


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## LuckyAC (Aug 12, 2004)

8 blocks show up in the box score


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## The True Essence (May 26, 2003)

hes scottie pippen and ben wallace fused into a fast russian guy


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## Johnny Mac (May 6, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>EHL</b>!
> I still don't understand how it came to be that he was overrated. You can't really overrate AK unless you call him the best player in the league.


Some people look at stats and feel he is a top 5 player in the league. That is overrating him, which is a shame. Kirilenko is one of those guys you just really enjoy watching. He has such amazing anticipation on defense, and is a very efficient offensive player.


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## Hov (Aug 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>LuckyAC</b>!
> 8 blocks show up in the box score


He had 8?!
:laugh: I thought he had only 6.


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## Arclite (Nov 2, 2002)

I think the variety of ways he blocked the shots was more impressive than the number itself (which was a new career high for him). It didn't really matter where he was on the court, if someone put up a shot near him it was getting sent back.


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## qwerty (Oct 26, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Hov</b>!
> 
> He had 8?!
> :laugh: I thought he had only 6.


http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=241103026


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## 1 Penny (Jul 11, 2003)

AK47 is known as one of the elite defenders in the league, 8 blocks is a great effort.

The only thing that overrates Kirilenko is when people he is top 5 in the league.

top 15 maybe, even top 10 to some, but he isnt top 5 overall player. Maybe defensive top 10, yeah he'll be up there, top 5 even.


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## cpawfan (Jun 20, 2004)

AK-47 must be the best player in the NBA to make Boozer look that good.


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## bballlife (Oct 5, 2003)

There are not 10 players in the league I would take over AK.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Johnny Mac</b>!
> 
> 
> Some people look at stats and feel he is a top 5 player in the league. That is overrating him, which is a shame.


Who does that? I've never seen anyone put him in the top-five. He usually gets called overrated when a bunch of people put him in their top-ten.


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## Johnny Mac (May 6, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Minstrel</b>!
> Who does that? I've never seen anyone put him in the top-five. He usually gets called overrated when a bunch of people put him in their top-ten.


Dan Rosenbaums system puts Kirilenko in the top 5 (at #4, behind Garnett, Duncan and Shaq) and theres a lot of people on this site who use that system as backing for the opinion that Kirilenko is a top 5 player.


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Johnny Mac</b>!
> 
> 
> Dan Rosenbaums system puts Kirilenko in the top 5 (at #4, behind Garnett, Duncan and Shaq) and theres a lot of people on this site who use that system as backing for the opinion that Kirilenko is a top 5 player.


Yeah, but Rosenbaum acknowledges (on this very web site no less) that he doesn't consider AK a top 4 player. 

Most people who call AK overrated don't actually watch the guy. In fact, they probably didn't watch him play the Lakers tonight, they probably don't have League Pass, they probably don't follow the NBA period, beyond their home team.


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## LuckyAC (Aug 12, 2004)

I have never seen anyone seriously say Kirilenko is better than the big five: Shaq, Kobe, Duncan, KG, TMac. Perhaps they said he was top 5 in statistical value, based on things like that system.


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## DownUnderWonder (May 27, 2003)

I just think he is the perfect team player. His skill on both ends, he unselfish play with the ball and his quickness make him an awesome player. I dont buy into top5 or 10 or whatever. This is basketball not Mtv.


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## Johnny Mac (May 6, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>EHL</b>!
> Yeah, but Rosenbaum acknowledges (on this very web site no less) that he doesn't consider AK a top 4 player.
> 
> Most people who call AK overrated don't actually watch the guy. In fact, they probably didn't watch him play the Lakers tonight, they probably don't have League Pass, they probably don't follow the NBA period, beyond their home team.


I've never seen Dan explain that his system overrates Kirilenko, and that he really isn't a top 5 player. Either way, his system still says it, and for that reason, people still use that system as evidence of Kirilenko being top 5 despite Dan not thinking that himself (if what you say is true).


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Johnny Mac</b>!
> 
> 
> I've never seen Dan explain that his system overrates Kirilenko, and that he really isn't a top 5 player. Either way, his system still says it, and for that reason, people still use that system as evidence of Kirilenko being top 5 despite Dan not thinking that himself (if what you say is true).


Dan fully acknowledges the flaws in his system. As you said, AK isn't a top 5 player, that would be overrating him, and that should be fairly obvious just from watching the guy last season. Even if Dan's system rates him 4th (I thought it was 2nd actually, maybe that was Hollinger?).


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## Johnny Mac (May 6, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>EHL</b>!
> Dan fully acknowledges the flaws in his system. As you said, AK isn't a top 5 player, that would be overrating him, and that should be fairly obvious just from watching the guy last season. Even if Dan's system rates him 4th (I thought it was 2nd actually, maybe that was Hollinger?).


http://www.basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?postid=1586542#post1586542

Thats from a fairly recent post.


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## LuckyAC (Aug 12, 2004)

Kirilenko was third. Obviously every statistical model will have flaws, especially in evaluating a sport where players affect each other so much (baseball is a lot easier), but I think that even if it overrated Kirilenko, Rosenbaum's system still has value in showing how good he is. The rest of the that ranking is quite good, with the only other outliers Cardinal and Sabonis, both of whom played many fewer minutes, so less accurate (and Sabonis was obviously good when he played). Maybe he isn't number 3, but I think he has a good case for top 10, even without being a big scorer.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

I would use Dan's system as an estimation of intangibles with maybe some element of tangibles. Andrei Kirilenko might be top-five in "intangibles." I really wouldn't know how to evaluate that from pure thought.

As an overall player, with both intangibles and actual production, I think it's fair to say he's a top-ten player.

For me, somewhere between 7-10 (I put Nowitzki as my clear #6).


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## JustinSane (May 26, 2003)

I'm one of those who over-rates Kirilenko. I feel he is the best defensive player in the game and I have a bias in favor of defensive players and teams. The first basketball I watched was the 89/90 bad boys and I've loved defense ever since. Kirilenko is not Ben Wallace however. He is a wonderfully efficient offensive player as well. I personally rank him as fourth independent of the Rosenbaum ratings (though I think I've defended this position before and used them to do so). 

I just ask myself: If Kirilenko traded places with Kobe, TMac, and Nowitski last year, how would the teams have done? I honestly think the team with Kirilenko would have done better and Utah would have done worse in each scenario. There are no weaknesses in his game for others to have to cover. He always plays within the system. He does not take plays off and I've never seen him mail a game in. He's a team player. He almost took the Utah Jazz to the playoffs last year! Pre-season, they were predicted to break the single season loss record! Doesn't this matter?


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## WhiteTandaFitted (Sep 27, 2004)

It's just hard for me to fathom why anyone wouldn't like AK. Even my boys who i guess you could consider more in touch with the 'black gangsta' lifestyle have love for AK. 

AK is overrated if you consider him top 5, but only someone who doesn't understand basketball would say that, IMO. Definitely top 10. He opens up the floor with his offensive repetoire (even if he doesn't score as much) and his defensive timing is definitely the best in the league. He's also great at on the ball defense against quicker and smaller guys, which I'd say would give him something Big Ben as second best defender, other than Artest.


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## reHEATed (Jun 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>EHL</b>!
> I still don't understand how it came to be that he was overrated. You can't really overrate AK unless you call him the best player in the league.


when I called Ak the best sf in the game (which he is) people said I was overrating him. A lot of people think he cant lead a team and is just a terrific role player. He could definately lead a team and did so all of last year, and even with all the new additions you could tell he is a leader out on the court. He is also a top 3 defensive player in the game, close to big ben and artest


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## amd pwr (Jun 24, 2003)

Without a doubt, AK is the best SF in the game today.


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## DaBobZ (Sep 22, 2003)

I have to agree on that one... but could he become the defensive player of the year? IMO he deserved it last year but as Ron Artest and B. Wallace already got this title he'll end up with it soon or late I guess


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## sweet_constipation (Jul 3, 2004)

Anybody that reminds me of Pippen back in his day, I can love.
There aren't too many players that can go to ANY team and instantly be productive without messing up the chemistry.


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## Redbled (Sep 3, 2004)

His wife is pretty hot. I agree he's the top SF in the league. Easier to replace what Peja can do than what AK can do.


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## MLKG (Aug 25, 2003)

I think he is hands down the best small forward in the league, but I also think he is overrated a bit on these boards.

He is a perfectly complete player, but he's a bit overrated in some aspects.

His defense for example. I mean he is a great defender- unquestionably top 3 in the league, I'd say #2 behind Ben Wallace- but he isn't all he is made out to be.

People kind of play him up as this ultimate Scottie Pippen stopper on the perimeter, but after watching him play last night- he almost looked like he had stone feet out there.

I mean, there is a reason Gordan Giricek and Raja Bell were the ones guarding Kobe and not AK. There were 2 or 3 times I saw where AK got switched onto him on the perimeter and Kobe blew by him 2 or 3 steps before Andrei even got his feet out of the cement (all times resulting in big dunks). Conversely, there were 2 or 3 times where Kobe tried posting him up and Andrei absolutely embarased him.

Defensively I don't think he is as good on the perimeter as guys like Artest, Bowen, Prince, Christie, or Kobe. The strength of his game is in the paint- where he is a monster.

8 blocks is no joke, but in watching the Lakers I started thinking "At what point do guys start NOT taking it straight at him". I admit I haven't seen Utah play a whole lot in the last 2 or 3 years as they are rarely on TV, but everytime I do see them play it seems like guys just aren't afraid of AK like they should be. You always see guys try to take him off the dribble and sneak a layup by him and then act surprised when it gets sent into the seats. He doesn't seem to be the intimidator down low like guys like Ben Wallace, Theo Ratliff, and Duncan are- when guys see them step in front of them they adjust their shots like crazy.

This is in no way AK's fault or a knock on his abilities, it just seems like he gets a lot of blocks that leave me thinking "why would anybody even try to get that shot passed him?".

Offensively he does a little of everything, isn't particularly great at anything, but doesn't have any weaknesses either.

Overall, he's the kind of player you win championships with- he just does everything on the floor and does it unselfishly. I definatley wouldn't call him top 5 though, more like in the 8-12 range.


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## bullet (Jul 1, 2003)

Top 10 player - picked by Jazz at 24th - genious work by Jazz managment imo...


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## Pan Mengtu (Jun 18, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Arclite</b>!
> I think the variety of ways he blocked the shots was more impressive than the number itself (which was a new career high for him). It didn't really matter where he was on the court, if someone put up a shot near him it was getting sent back.


That's exactly how I feel. Most people get blocks off of help defense. AK can block his man while taking a jumpshot.


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## SheriffKilla (Jan 1, 2004)

wow!!!!

i've never seen this Dan Rosenbaum system before
but HOW RIGHT I WAS

finally i have what you guys all love...statistical backing
for my player rankings
beaaaatiful

Nene is up there
Cardinal is up there
Kirilenko is top 3(he is the 2nd best player IMO)
and Marbury and Amare and Zach Randolph and Redd are in the 100s


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## 1 Penny (Jul 11, 2003)

The few things that makes AK really good and standout form most similarly players to him is that..

AK, as most stated, fits into almost any system in the league. He can play at the same level and to his potential either in slow paced teams or even the fast transition teams.

You have to account that the guy is 6'9 and can play both forward positions. He has great length also, he can cover a lot of space as players like Garnett, Marion, Miles etc. But AK has a similar defensive mind as Ben Wallace. 

As I stated, if you think he is top 5, then that doesnt say much for todays best players then. Its true that AK's atheletism is actually utilized in the defensive end unlike most athletes these days who rather shoot the long 3 and crave for cherry picking moments for that spectacular dunk. AK uses his to defend inside and outside.

I dont think he's close to Pippen in his prime, Pippen was quicker and smarter in the defensive end, and a better offensive player overall. He's a very poor man's Pippen, only because he contributes a lot to his team similarly to how Pippen did it.


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## jokeaward (May 22, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Mike luvs KG</b>!
> You always see guys try to take him off the dribble and sneak a layup by him and then act surprised when it gets sent into the seats.


Actually he kept them in play nd got them to his teammates. It was scary good.

I've never seen anything like that from a SF.

He could definitely hang with Kobe well. Nobody is going to stop top SGs on every play or even in every game, but some are adept at that kind of defense to an extent. Artest, Bowen, Hassell, and AK are up there.


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## Debt Collector (Mar 13, 2003)

i am usually hating on him but last night he came through, he virtually shut down the entire laker squad the first half by himself. but then again its not like he was swatting last years lakers around. lakers offense is only average.

i just dont see how someone with that mediocre of an offensive game should be considersed top 10.


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## LuckyAC (Aug 12, 2004)

Because defense is just as important as offense, and his offensive game is quite good anyway, withb 17 ppg on good efficiency. Beyond the top 5, all the players have serious flaws - Dirk has poor defense, Iverson shoots a terrible percentage etc. Kirilenko is the most rounded of any of those players, with his most serious flaw his still good offensive game.


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>LuckyAC</b>!
> Because defense is just as important as offense, and his offensive game is quite good anyway, withb 17 ppg on good efficiency. Beyond the top 5, all the players have serious flaws - Dirk has poor defense, Iverson shoots a terrible percentage etc. Kirilenko is the most rounded of any of those players, with his most serious flaw his still good offensive game.


Precisely.


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## qwerty (Oct 26, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Whodinee</b>!
> i am usually hating on him but last night he came through, he virtually shut down the entire laker squad the first half by himself. but then again its not like he was swatting last years lakers around. lakers offense is only average.
> 
> i just dont see how someone with that mediocre of an offensive game should be considersed top 10.


His offense is far from medicore. He shot less than 12 shots per game and averaged 16 points per game. That is pretty damn efficient to me, if he shot 5-10 times more per game he could easily be one of the top scorers in the league. But that is not his role, nor will it probally ever be his role.


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## KirkSnyderFan (Dec 22, 2003)

Kirilenko is definitetly in my top 10; top 5 defensively. I would trade any combination of Lakers not named Kobe for him.


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## Captain Obvious (Jun 15, 2003)

Kirilenko's been in my top ten for a while now. I guess it takes a great game against the almighty Lakers for everybody to give him his due.


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## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

I haven't seen a SF dominate a game defensively like he dominated that game... Guys like Pippen, Artest... Lock down defenders... Lock down one man, AK locked down the WHOLE TEAM. The guy was everywhere... It was intimidation at its fullest...


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