# The Official 2014 Bulls draft thread.



## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

Too soon? Ain't nothing exciting about this year other than tanking and getting a good draft pick. Soooo No, its not too soon.

Anyways, while we already drafted him, Draftexpress just did an updated scouting video on our prospect Nikola Mirotic. Good to see that they have some of the similar concerns that I have about him. Not sure if hes got the physical tools to be a great player in the NBA, but I think at worst hes a productive bench-player. I think he would be best suited as a stretch 5 so he doesn't have to deal with bigger and more athletic 4's, but with Noah here and the fact that hes more comfortable at the 4, we just have to hope he pans out and gets a bit bigger. 

Also, we gotta kinda lower our expectations on the guy IMO. I remember hearing some of the earlier comparisons on here likening him to Dirk, but hes NOWHERE near the talent that Dirk is/was. But, I also think hes got enough talent to be productive over here. Just how productive? We gotta wait and see.


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## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

There's probably a 50-50 chance you get Charlotte's pick this year. If Jordan decides to make a playoff push this season there's going to be plenty of players on the market that could help the Bobcats enough to wind up a low seed. Nobody's trading one of the top five or six picks, but having two picks could help Chicago rebuild on the fly, either through the draft or a trade.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

as jalen rose once said "You are your skillset"

this guy looks like another ryan anderson at best, a pick and pop big, physically kind of a tweener(3/4) who plays hard and smart at worst he is a matt bonner/novak, but i cant see him doing well in the paint , he'll have to make a living on the perimeter, he's not athletic enough to be a star.

i can see him doing well with thib's defensive system in the team concept , but he seriously needs to get stronger to defend 4's fulltime, if not i cant see him getting playing time.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

Da Grinch said:


> as jalen rose once said "You are your skillset"
> 
> this guy looks like another ryan anderson at best, a pick and pop big, physically kind of a tweener(3/4) who plays hard and smart at worst he is a matt bonner/novak, but i cant see him doing well in the paint , he'll have to make a living on the perimeter, he's not athletic enough to be a star.
> 
> i can see him doing well with thib's defensive system in the team concept , but he seriously needs to get stronger to defend 4's fulltime, if not i cant see him getting playing time.


Ryan Anderson is a good comparison IF he pans out.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

thebizkit69u said:


> Ryan Anderson is a good comparison IF he pans out.


and while anderson is a good player , he is not really worth all the fanfare the bulls fandom is putting into Mirotic....i dont believe a ryan anderson type would start ahead of boozer or taj unless he was dirk-like as a scorer and i really dont see that here


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

Da Grinch said:


> and while anderson is a good player , he is not really worth all the fanfare the bulls fandom is putting into Mirotic....i dont believe a ryan anderson type would start ahead of boozer or taj unless he was dirk-like as a scorer and i really dont see that here


It depends on which Ryan Anderson we get, cause he sure as hell looked like Dirk against us. lol


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## mvP to the Wee (Jul 14, 2007)

Mirotic won't be Dirk, but he's going to be real good. How often do young players do well in the Euro league? The same league where Rubio and Brandon Jennings got limited minutes, Mirotic is starting and collecting all these accolades.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

mvP to the Wee said:


> Mirotic won't be Dirk, but he's going to be real good. How often do young players do well in the Euro league? The same league where Rubio and Brandon Jennings got limited minutes, Mirotic is starting and collecting all these accolades.


Tiago Splitter got some accolades, Sergio Rodriguez was a young stud in Europe at a time and Jonas Valančiūnas has had a bunch of awards in Europe and hes under 21.


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## mvP to the Wee (Jul 14, 2007)

thebizkit69u said:


> Tiago Splitter got some accolades, Sergio Rodriguez was a young stud in Europe at a time and Jonas Valančiūnas has had a bunch of awards in Europe and hes under 21.


Doubt their accolades were anything close to Mirotic's but I could be wrong.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

Mirotic has more awards than Donatas, about the same as Rodriguez but no where near as many as Tiago and Jonas Valančiūnas.

Awards don't mean much IMO. I like Mirotic but I don't think he going to be anything special.


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## mvP to the Wee (Jul 14, 2007)

thebizkit69u said:


> Mirotic has more awards than Donatas, about the same as Rodriguez but no where near as many as Tiago and Jonas Valančiūnas.
> 
> Awards don't mean much IMO. I like Mirotic but I don't think he going to be anything special.


Are they the same awards(best youth player twice, don't think this was ever done) and then some sort of MVP?


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## mvP to the Wee (Jul 14, 2007)

2002-2003	Wálter Herrmann (25) - Argentina - Jabones Pardo Fuenlabrada
2003-2004	Andrés Nocioni (24) - Argentina - TAU Cerámica
2004-2005	Luis Scola (25) - Argentina - TAU Cerámica
2005-2006	Juan Carlos Navarro (25) - Spain - FC Barcelona
2006-2007	Luis Scola (27) - Argentina - TAU Cerámica
2007-2008	Marc Gasol (23) - Spain - Akasvayu Girona
2008-2009	Felipe Reyes (29) - Spain - Real Madrid
2009-2010	Tiago Splitter (25) - Brazil - Caja Laboral
2010-2011	Fernando San Emeterio (27) - Spain - Caja Laboral
2011-2012	Andy Panko (34) - USA - Lagun Aro GBC


Mirotic is the youngest ever to win this ACB MVP award. Before that, Marc Gasol was the youngest.

Also the only player to win the Euro Rising Star award twice.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

mvP to the Wee said:


> Are they the same awards(best youth player twice, don't think this was ever done) and then some sort of MVP?


Tiago and Mirotic both have the same MVP award.
Tiago has more All Euroleague Team nominations
Jonas has a ton of under certain age awards.

In terms of Awards, Tiago and Mirotic have some of the same awards with Tiago owning more of them.

Jonas was a much more decorated player but also chose the NBA over a more prestigious Euro-league team.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

mvP to the Wee said:


> Also the only player to win the Euro Rising Star award twice.


Yeah that award came after Tiagos time as well, if it existed Tiago would have won it multiple times. Not trying to shoot down Mirotics accomplishments, but people seem to forget how decorated and hyped Tiago Splitter was. Splitter arguably was one of the hottest talents in Europe for about a decade.


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## mvP to the Wee (Jul 14, 2007)

thebizkit69u said:


> Yeah that award came after Tiagos time as well, if it existed Tiago would have won it multiple times. Not trying to shoot down Mirotics accomplishments, but people seem to forget how decorated and hyped Tiago Splitter was. Splitter arguably was one of the hottest talents in Europe for about a decade.


Um the award existed back then


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

mvP to the Wee said:


> Um the award existed back then





> The Euroleague Rising Star is the annual award for the young player whom the Euroleague deems to be its top "rising star". The award began in the 2004-05 season and the winner is selected by the Euroleague head coaches.


I thought he wasn't eligible for that award? Either way, if you look at their awards they are pretty much similar.


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## mvP to the Wee (Jul 14, 2007)

thebizkit69u said:


> I thought he wasn't eligible for that award? Either way, if you look at their awards they are pretty much similar.


You need to be under 22, I believe he had 2 seasons of eligibility there. 

I also strongly disagree with that notion. The awards the others are winning are not what Mirotic is doing. And Mirotic is winning the biggest accolades as the youngest age and let's not discredit that. If Mirotic was doing this at 25 years old, I'd see your point, but he's 22.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

mvP to the Wee said:


> You need to be under 22, I believe he had 2 seasons of eligibility there.
> 
> I also strongly disagree with that notion. The awards the others are winning are not what Mirotic is doing. And Mirotic is winning the biggest accolades as the youngest age and let's not discredit that. If Mirotic was doing this at 25 years old, I'd see your point, but he's 22.


Whats your point about the awards thing? Cause I feel like we are arguing about little things that don't add up to much in the long run. Are you saying that because Mirotic won back to back under 22 awards that hes more accomplished than Tiago Splitter? 

I just don't think its that big of a deal. I don't think I'm discrediting what Mirotic is doing, I just don't think these awards are necessarily any indicator of anything that's going to translate over here. Heck, Anthony Parker won back to back EUROLEAGUE MVP's, its not like he lit the NBA on fire when he played here. Darryl Middleton won the Spanish League MVP 3 times! Who the hell is he?


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## mvP to the Wee (Jul 14, 2007)

thebizkit69u said:


> Whats your point about the awards thing? Cause I feel like we are arguing about little things that don't add up to much in the long run. Are you saying that because Mirotic won back to back under 22 awards that hes more accomplished than Tiago Splitter?
> 
> I just don't think its that big of a deal. I don't think I'm discrediting what Mirotic is doing, I just don't think these awards are necessarily any indicator of anything that's going to translate over here. Heck, Anthony Parker won back to back EUROLEAGUE MVP's, its not like he lit the NBA on fire when he played here. Darryl Middleton won the Spanish League MVP 3 times! Who the hell is he?


What age did Parker win it at? 

I'm stressing the importance of the age he's winning these awards and the kind of awards he's winning. A 20 year old all star compared to a 30 year old first time all star doesn't mean they're the same. The fact he can accomplish so much at such a young age would indicate his future is brighter than most.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

mvP to the Wee said:


> What age did Parker win it at?
> 
> I'm stressing the importance of the age he's winning these awards and the kind of awards he's winning. A 20 year old all star compared to a 30 year old first time all star doesn't mean they're the same. The fact he can accomplish so much at such a young age would indicate his future is brighter than most.


Its splitting hairs IMO, especially when talking about Tiago and Mirotic. I don't buy into the idea that his future is brighter because of some awards he won at a young age, but obviously you hold more stock into that than I do.. And thats fine. We will just agree to disagree.

Lets have a conversation about his game, his playing style and how his game will translate into the NBA.


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## mvP to the Wee (Jul 14, 2007)

thebizkit69u said:


> Its splitting hairs IMO, especially when talking about Tiago and Mirotic. I don't buy into the idea that his future is brighter because of some awards he won at a young age, but obviously you hold more stock into that than I do.. And thats fine. We will just agree to disagree.
> 
> Lets have a conversation about his game, his playing style and how his game will translate into the NBA.


I read from Mark Deeks(shamsports) that he had Radmanovics 3 combined with Vlade Divac's passing. Said this about 2 years ago I think. He's usually good with the euro players, he called Valanciunas translating well over here and that euro dude Houston drafted being a bust.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

mvP to the Wee said:


> I read from Mark Deeks(shamsports) that he had Radmanovics 3 combined with Vlade Divac's passing. Said this about 2 years ago I think. He's usually good with the euro players, he called Valanciunas translating well over here and that euro dude Houston drafted being a bust.


Let me stop you right there. I've never seen the guy pass the ball once, and I'll tell you he isn't going to pass is like Divac. 

Others brought up Ryan Anderson, in argument you're getting angry and not bringing up a player of your own as his comparison. Why?


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## mvP to the Wee (Jul 14, 2007)

R-Star said:


> Let me stop you right there. I've never seen the guy pass the ball once, and I'll tell you he isn't going to pass is like Divac.
> 
> Others brought up Ryan Anderson, in argument you're getting angry and not bringing up a player of your own as his comparison. Why?


I'd be thrilled if he's Ryan Anderson, I think he's a tad bit better though.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Will have to wait and see. Ryan Anderson is a good NBA player, but I agree with some of the other guys who've posted. If Ryan Anderson is this guys ceiling, I'm not sure he should be a hyped as he currently is by some Bulls fans.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

thebizkit69u said:


> Tiago and Mirotic both have the same MVP award.
> Tiago has more All Euroleague Team nominations
> Jonas has a ton of under certain age awards.
> 
> ...


All these guys you're mentioning have different playing styles from Mirotic. I see Mirotic as having a skill set that should directly translate very well to the NBA game. Whereas Jonas' inside game or Sergio's off-the-dribble game wouldn't necessarily.

I don't see anyone saying he'll be as good as Dirk or even close to it, just that he has a similar playing style. I think it's fair to say his skill set should translate similar to how Dirk's translated to the NBA. Legit big man size with a pure shooting stroke, ball skills, alpha dog mentality, and competitive edge usually make an impact in the league. (FWIW, I am not predicting him to even be an all-star, just a very solid offensive-minded starting caliber PF...)

I agree defense will be his weak point, but I doubt he'll be any worse than Boozer. I think we'll be OK on rebounding with guys like Taj, Noah, Jimmy playing alongside him.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

R-Star said:


> Will have to wait and see. Ryan Anderson is a good NBA player, but I agree with some of the other guys who've posted. If Ryan Anderson is this guys ceiling, I'm not sure he should be a hyped as he currently is by some Bulls fans.


Who is over hyping him? Unless my memory is failing me, I haven't seen a single quote saying he'll even make an all-star team, let alone these imaginary "next Dirk" comparisons that people allegedly are making. I think most Bulls fans are expecting him to be a starting caliber PF and nothing more. Alot of players are capable of 15-17 ppg scoring in this league, I don't think that's some absurd claim for a Euroleague player of his caliber. For comparison, Luol Deng has always been a 15-17 ppg scorer and tons of Bulls fans thinks he sucks offensively. IMO, Mirotic will be similar to Luol Deng offensively, maybe a bit more efficient due to his size, but generally right in that ballpark. And far less defensively like I said above.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

yodurk said:


> Who is over hyping him? Unless my memory is failing me, I haven't seen a single quote saying he'll even make an all-star team, let alone these imaginary "next Dirk" comparisons that people allegedly are making. I think most Bulls fans are expecting him to be a starting caliber PF and nothing more. Alot of players are capable of 15-17 ppg scoring in this league, I don't think that's some absurd claim for a Euroleague player of his caliber. For comparison, Luol Deng has always been a 15-17 ppg scorer and tons of Bulls fans thinks he sucks offensively. IMO, Mirotic will be similar to Luol Deng offensively, maybe a bit more efficient due to his size, but generally right in that ballpark. And far less defensively like I said above.


There are 51 players averaging 15 points or more a game. That equates to 1.7 per team if you want to look at it that way.

Scoring 15ppg or more isn't easy.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

While I think the Ryan Anderson comparison is a good one. The one big issue I see with this is that Mirotic has the opposite of Ryan Andersons lighting quick release. Mirotic has one of the longest releases I have seen in a while. While both are below the rim players, Andersons quick shot is huge when long quick 3's and 4's try close out on his shot. I'm not sure Mirotic can get his shot off at the next level, especially against some of the lankier and quick defenders.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

As of today, the bulls have positioned themselves into a top ten pick in next year's draft. Let's just say the bulls luck into a pick anywhere from 4-6 and Dante Exum is available, do you think the bulls have the balls to make the pick?

For those who don't know who he is, Dante is by far the most talented PG prospect in the draft. At 6'6, he is incredibly skilled with the ball.... while I do think he can play the 2, his gifts make him an incredible PG prospect. 

Would Derrick feel threatened? 

Can you imagine coming into next season with Dante Exum, Mirotic and Doug McDermott?


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

thebizkit69u said:


> As of today, the bulls have positioned themselves into a top ten pick in next year's draft. Let's just say the bulls luck into a pick anywhere from 4-6 and Dante Exum is available, do you think the bulls have the balls to make the pick?
> 
> For those who don't know who he is, Dante is by far the most talented PG prospect in the draft. At 6'6, he is incredibly skilled with the ball.... while I do think he can play the 2, his gifts make him an incredible PG prospect.
> 
> ...


I *absolutely* think the Bulls should, and will, pick Dante Exum if they're lucky enough to get a top 3-4 pick (IMO, Exum will be gone by #4, maybe even 2 or 3). The kid is going to be good. And no, I don't see a problem playing alongside Derrick. He is 6'6 and should be groomed into a shot creating 2-guard, not a PG. So really I see him filling this major void folks have been wanting filled for the past 3-4 years as someone to take shot creating pressure off Rose.

Exum, Mirotic, and McDermott would be an incredible re-load heading into next year. That is the offensive support he needs. Derrick's camp would probably hate it b/c it pushes their title aspirations back another year (you never win titles with 3 rookies in your rotation), however IMO Derrick will need 1 full year under his belt to get back to superstar status and shake off all the rust anyways, assuming he can stay healthy that is. Plus letting Miami's current squad fizzle another year is not a bad thing.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

R-Star said:


> There are 51 players averaging 15 points or more a game. That equates to 1.7 per team if you want to look at it that way.
> 
> Scoring 15ppg or more isn't easy.


Good stat. I just happen to think Mirotic will crack that. I really don't see how Mirotic is any worse offensively than Luol Deng. He is a better shooter than Deng, similar off the dribble skills, similar/slightly bigger size, and just as much if not more of a go-to scorer mentality. On THIS Bulls team, he will likely be the 2nd option just like Deng. It might take him a season or two to adjust to the NBA game and reach that level, but I see that territory as his median projection. Of course he could turn out worse...or better.


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## mvP to the Wee (Jul 14, 2007)

It also depends what role Mirotic ultimately finds himself into. If we get lucky at the lotto and draft a 2nd scorer, Mirotic may not get the 15ppg with Jimmy Butler and Noah getting theirs too.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

yodurk said:


> I *absolutely* think the Bulls should, and will, pick Dante Exum if they're lucky enough to get a top 3-4 pick (IMO, Exum will be gone by #4, maybe even 2 or 3). The kid is going to be good. And no, I don't see a problem playing alongside Derrick. He is 6'6 and should be groomed into a shot creating 2-guard, not a PG. So really I see him filling this major void folks have been wanting filled for the past 3-4 years as someone to take shot creating pressure off Rose.
> 
> Exum, Mirotic, and McDermott would be an incredible re-load heading into next year. That is the offensive support he needs. Derrick's camp would probably hate it b/c it pushes their title aspirations back another year (you never win titles with 3 rookies in your rotation), however IMO Derrick will need 1 full year under his belt to get back to superstar status and shake off all the rust anyways, assuming he can stay healthy that is. Plus letting Miami's current squad fizzle another year is not a bad thing.


The issue I have with Exum at the 2 is that physically and skill wise his best position is at 1. Moving him to the 2 means he has to bulk up and become more comfortable playing without the ball. He's already got better court vision than Rose, wouldn't it just make more sense to move rose to his more natural role as scoring guard. Give Exum the PG spot in year 2, but still have him guard 2's.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

In case people hate having to wait for NBAdraft.net to update its lottery rankings, this site updates hourly and is up to date on the current draft positioning and teams odds of getting the #1 pick. http://www.tankingforwiggins.com/

Currently Bulls are at #9.


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## mvP to the Wee (Jul 14, 2007)

thebizkit69u said:


> In case people hate having to wait for NBAdraft.net to update its lottery rankings, this site updates hourly and is up to date on the current draft positioning and teams odds of getting the #1 pick. http://www.tankingforwiggins.com/
> 
> Currently Bulls are at #9.


tankathon.com is better


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

mvP to the Wee said:


> tankathon.com is better


Agreed, it updates every ten minutes and it has a simulator. Good find.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

Bulls gain a spot up in the Lottery. Sitting at pick #8!

With NY and Brooklyn playing around .500 ball of late, the Bulls can drop into the #6 pick by the end of the weekend. Wow. 

The Bulls can seriously end up with a game changer if they keep it up.


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## mvP to the Wee (Jul 14, 2007)

thebizkit69u said:


> Bulls gain a spot up in the Lottery. Sitting at pick #8!
> 
> With NY and Brooklyn playing around .500 ball of late, the Bulls can drop into the #6 pick by the end of the weekend. Wow.
> 
> The Bulls can seriously end up with a game changer if they keep it up.


Top 6 is all I want. That guarantees at least one of Parker, Wiggins, Randle, Exum, Smart, Embiid.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

mvP to the Wee said:


> Top 6 is all I want. That guarantees at least one of Parker, Wiggins, Randle, Exum, Smart, Embiid.


I would rather have Zach lavine over smart but yeah, top 6 would be amazing. Embiid would be an unbelievable pick, his upside is massive. Seriously, he has a chance to shock the world and go #1 if a team really believes in his upside.


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## mvP to the Wee (Jul 14, 2007)

thebizkit69u said:


> I would rather have Zach lavine over smart but yeah, top 6 would be amazing. Embiid would be an unbelievable pick, his upside is massive. Seriously, he has a chance to shock the world and go #1 if a team really believes in his upside.


I'm actually with you on Zach LaVine, I would love to draft him in the top 10, but last time I checked(a few weeks ago), he wasn't projected to get drafted that high at all.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

mvP to the Wee said:


> I'm actually with you on Zach LaVine, I would love to draft him in the top 10, but last time I checked(a few weeks ago), he wasn't projected to get drafted that high at all.


Depends on where you look, draft express doesn't have him declaring, while nbadraft.net had him in the top 10.

Lavine has size, athleticism and had been an explosive option of ucla's bench. Sounds like something we could really use.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

thebizkit69u said:


> Bulls gain a spot up in the Lottery. Sitting at pick #8!
> 
> With NY and Brooklyn playing around .500 ball of late, the Bulls can drop into the #6 pick by the end of the weekend. Wow.
> 
> The Bulls can seriously end up with a game changer if they keep it up.



Seriously. I have never been more thrilled at the prospect of a losing season.

If the Bulls can just get Deng moved for some good re-tool assets, the Bulls really have a shot at a dramatic turnaround back into contention. With recent reports that the Bulls and Deng are something like $5M/year apart on salary, it seems all the more clear that it's time to deal him.

With Deng moved, I think the next guy is Dunleavy. He would be a niece piece for a contending team, has a fairly move-able salary, and frankly I feel for the guy given he was trying to hook up with a contending team this offseason. He doesn't have a real role in the Bulls' future, so let's get him dealt.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

jnrjr79 said:


> Seriously. I have never been more thrilled at the prospect of a losing season.
> 
> If the Bulls can just get Deng moved for some good re-tool assets, the Bulls really have a shot at a dramatic turnaround back into contention. With recent reports that the Bulls and Deng are something like $5M/year apart on salary, it seems all the more clear that it's time to deal him.
> 
> With Deng moved, I think the next guy is Dunleavy. He would be a niece piece for a contending team, has a fairly move-able salary, and frankly I feel for the guy given he was trying to hook up with a contending team this offseason. He doesn't have a real role in the Bulls' future, so let's get him dealt.


I don't want to move Dunleavy because I think he brings more value to us next season as either a trade chip on the last year of a deal and because he is a good player to have come off the bench when Rose comes back next season. 

My only fear with the idea of tanking is if the Bulls end up out of the top 4 picks. While the draft is loaded, I really think this management could screw things up by over-thinking and take a guy like Rodney Hood at like 5. Hes a Duke player who looks like the type of player Paxon loves.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

thebizkit69u said:


> I don't want to move Dunleavy because I think he brings more value to us next season as either a trade chip on the last year of a deal and because he is a good player to have come off the bench when Rose comes back next season.


I mean, I'm perfectly comfortable with Dunleavy being around next year, but it's tough for me to imagine the team isn't 2 seasons away from title contention given the number of new faces likely to be around next season. There could be 2 or 3 significant rookies on the roster, which isn't exactly a winning formula.



> My only fear with the idea of tanking is if the Bulls end up out of the top 4 picks. While the draft is loaded, I really think this management could screw things up by over-thinking and take a guy like Rodney Hood at like 5. Hes a Duke player who looks like the type of player Paxon loves.


While the Bulls' track record in free agency is far from superb, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt when it comes to the draft. They hit more often than they miss.


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## Bulls96 (Jun 25, 2003)

jnrjr79 said:


> Seriously. I have never been more thrilled at the prospect of a losing season.


You are not alone… and it is very contagious


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## mattm217 (Dec 20, 2013)

Yes! Another loss is in the books! Moving on up (or down, depending on how you look at it).


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## mvP to the Wee (Jul 14, 2007)

mattm217 said:


> Yes! Another loss is in the books! Moving on up (or down, depending on how you look at it).


Welcome to the tank


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## Johnnyt23 (Dec 20, 2013)

So, if the Bobcats finish outside the top ten and we finish inside the top ten this could set up perfect for us. If I was GarPax given D-Roses injury history I would take Marcus Smart first if we land in the top ten and then take a shooter second I.E. James Young from UK. This would be perfect for us. No way we can get Wiggins or Parker to play the at the 3.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

http://m.espn.go.com/general/story?storyId=10170892&city=chicago&src=desktop


I really hope this is just posturing, because they would be so very stupid to hold on to Deng.


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## mattm217 (Dec 20, 2013)

thebizkit69u said:


> http://m.espn.go.com/general/story?storyId=10170892&city=chicago&src=desktop
> 
> 
> I really hope this is just posturing, because they would be so very stupid to hold on to Deng.


"Despite failing to come to terms on a contract extension before the season, the Bulls remain optimistic they will re-sign Deng next summer."

Why does this NOT surprise me!?


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## mattm217 (Dec 20, 2013)

The only good I can see coming from the Bulls not trading Luol Deng is the following:

The Bulls finish in the bottom 8 and draft a quality player. Charlotte makes the playoffs and the Bulls get another first round pick to add depth to the team. 
The Bulls then amnesty Boozer and sign Mirotic and another free agent. Following these signings the Bulls then sign-and-trade Deng allowing to add salary well passed the salary cap. This way they can add even more pieces to the team or package someone with Deng for an even better player.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

mattm217 said:


> The only good I can see coming from the Bulls not trading Luol Deng is the following:
> 
> The Bulls finish in the bottom 8 and draft a quality player. Charlotte makes the playoffs and the Bulls get another first round pick to add depth to the team.
> The Bulls then amnesty Boozer and sign Mirotic and another free agent. Following these signings the Bulls then sign-and-trade Deng allowing to add salary well passed the salary cap. This way they can add even more pieces to the team or package someone with Deng for an even better player.


With the way contracts have been going the last couple of years, I don't see ANYONE wanting a signed and traded Deng at 13+ million. The Bulls need to trade him now.


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## mattm217 (Dec 20, 2013)

thebizkit69u said:


> With the way contracts have been going the last couple of years, I don't see ANYONE wanting a signed and traded Deng at 13+ million. The Bulls need to trade him now.


There are many teams that would part with a bad contract or two in exchange for Luol Deng. Those "bad contracts" could still be positive pieces in a deep Bulls rotation.

I'm not suggesting that the Bulls do this, I'm simply saying that could be the only positive thing to come out of NOT trading Luol Deng. But to hold out hope that you can sign-and-trade him after the season and risk losing him for nithing is dumb IF you can get someone to take him as a second half/playoff rental.

My hopes just aren't high that this management team is competent enough to make these smart decisions and deals.


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## mvP to the Wee (Jul 14, 2007)

From Chad Ford:

The Bulls continue to bomb. The team is now 4-12 since Derrick Rose went down with another knee injury and has a number of bad losses on its resume.

While our own Brian Windhorst reported last week that the Bulls don't want to trade Luol Deng before the trade deadline, the rumblings out of Chicago are that they aren't going to make an effort to turn around the ship either. Bulls management isn't exploring any trades to make the team better in the short term. The more that 44.9 percent chance of making the playoffs goes down, the better. -


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

Bulls lose a spot to the Cavs. From #8 to #9..... Ugh, stop winning!!!


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

mvP to the Wee said:


> From Chad Ford:
> 
> The Bulls continue to bomb. The team is now 4-12 since Derrick Rose went down with another knee injury and has a number of bad losses on its resume.
> 
> While our own Brian Windhorst reported last week that the Bulls don't want to trade Luol Deng before the trade deadline, the rumblings out of Chicago are that they aren't going to make an effort to turn around the ship either. Bulls management isn't exploring any trades to make the team better in the short term. The more that 44.9 percent chance of making the playoffs goes down, the better. -


LOL at Ford, it's like he thinks this is a bad thing. Here is my take on the Bulls' thinking right now (totally IMO):

The Bulls are not actively pursuing moves b/c anything they do will be perceived as committing to a direction: either win now or tank. And it's a catch 22...both directions have pros/cons. "Win now" would please Thibs/Rose, but would blow any chance of getting a high pick in a great draft. On the other hand they could make trades to get worse in the short term (e.g., dump Deng/Boozer for cap relief and draft picks), which gets us closer to a Parker/Wiggins draft, but then you worry about losing Thibs and straining things even more with Rose. In both cases it's lose-lose. But if they stand pat, they are saying these are the horses we rode into battle for better or worse. Thibs/Rose can't complain if we stand pat (well not any more than they have already) b/c this team was set up to be a contender and you can't control these injuries. But by the same token we're putting ourselves into lottery contention. So given these dreadful circumstances it's pretty much the best of both worlds...keep Thibs/Rose content while still being in position for a lotto pick in a strong draft. I think the Bulls' front office knows the value of a high draft pick this year but needs to balance that with the perceptions of Thibs/Rose and keeping them happy. 

Also I think the Bulls want to keep/re-sign Luol Deng this summer, but only at the right price. All of these "rumors" are likely just Deng's agent leaking stuff to the media to drive up his price; as such I put very little stock in these reports. The Bulls will only trade Deng if they receive a can't miss offer in return. They likely aren't giving up hope of re-signing him on a reasonable deal, maybe something like 4 years, $40-48M. For $10M/yr I would love to keep Deng as I think he'll produce at this level for another 3-4 years at least and his game should age gracefully.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

I see 0 pros in Win Now. 

There are NO PROS to that approach. The idea that playoff "experience" is something that can be measured as something of value, is a fallacy. 

This team is very bad, they are NOT going to compete for a title and winning games NOW only takes them further away from being a title contender in the future. Management HAS TO SEE this, its incredibly shortsighted to not see it this way.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

thebizkit69u said:


> I see 0 pros in Win Now.
> 
> There are NO PROS to that approach.


I agree except for the point I made above...Thibs & Rose.

If Thibs thinks the front office isn't trying to get better, or especially trying to get worse ("tank"), I could easily see him either flat out resign at the end of this season, or at least mutually agree to part ways with the front office.

For Rose, the perception that the front office isn't trying to get better is the sort of thing that can rapidly snowball to him coercing a trade or making up his mind that he's out of here in a few years when his contract expires. We've already heard rumblings about his opinion that this team isn't good enough support for him.

Both of these guys are too important to just ignore. But other than that, I see what you're saying.


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## mvP to the Wee (Jul 14, 2007)

DraftExpress scouting report updated


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## dkg1 (May 31, 2002)

I would be good if we could land in a spot to land a Dante Exum or Aaron Gordon. I could see Exum sliding a little the more front offices pick his game apart. Right now there's not a lot known about him. I love Gary Harris's game. He would fit nicely next to Rose in our back court


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## mvP to the Wee (Jul 14, 2007)

Mirotic


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

dkg1 said:


> I would be good if we could land in a spot to land a Dante Exum or Aaron Gordon. I could see Exum sliding a little the more front offices pick his game apart. Right now there's not a lot known about him. I love Gary Harris's game. He would fit nicely next to Rose in our back court


I'd be cool with Gary Harris as a late lotto/mid-1st round pick, which could end up being our own pick or Bobcats pick (or even Sacto's pick from Deng trade if they make a miraculous jump to the #13 pick this year). Harris would fit like a glove on this Bulls team (for better or worse). He is mature enough where he should contribute right away, very good SG defender, good 3-pt shooter, unselfish, good character and work ethic. Though most Bulls fans may rip their hair out b/c he'd be yet another guy who can't create his own shot. So I'd be very wary about reaching too high for him. 

Would MUCH rather snag a dynamic offensive guard like Exum or Smart, as one of those guys may be available at #7 if we can tank hard enough to get there. Basically I'm all in favor of the most offensively talented guard/wing we can get in this draft. If we get 2 picks, maybe the later pick can be the best C available as a Noah backup to groom.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

yodurk said:


> I'd be cool with Gary Harris as a late lotto/mid-1st round pick, which could end up being our own pick or Bobcats pick (or even Sacto's pick from Deng trade if they make a miraculous jump to the #13 pick this year). Harris would fit like a glove on this Bulls team (for better or worse). He is mature enough where he should contribute right away, very good SG defender, good 3-pt shooter, unselfish, good character and work ethic. Though most Bulls fans may rip their hair out b/c he'd be yet another guy who can't create his own shot. So I'd be very wary about reaching too high for him.
> 
> Would MUCH rather snag a dynamic offensive guard like Exum or Smart, as one of those guys may be available at #7 if we can tank hard enough to get there. Basically I'm all in favor of the most offensively talented guard/wing we can get in this draft. If we get 2 picks, maybe the later pick can be the best C available as a Noah backup to groom.


A scenario I really think the bulls should be open to would be if let's say Utah gets the third pick and Wiggins and Parker are off the board. I would push very hard to get that pick from the jazz for Joel Embiid. They love Enes Kanter but there is no way they will keep 3 bigs who need big time playing time. Either they draft embiid and trade kanter or cousins or they don't draft Embiid. I would be willing to give the jazz our 2 first rounders for the chance to draft Embiid.


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