# LeBron's Dunk Contest Statement = EXPOSED



## Samurai Swish (Feb 3, 2012)

Ever wonder why one of ... if not the most supremely gifted basketball player of all-time continually fails time and time again, when success would be a lock? Ever wonder why such a talented player and BEAST of a man, is reduced to rubble and a midget in the game's most intense and pressured moments, and on it's greatest stage?

His comments yesterday about the dunk contest, a microcosm ... peeling back like an onion what is at the heart of this monster of a talent. Better yet, a complete LACK of heart.

"I wouldn't enter the dunk contest unless I knew for certain I'd win it."

He's a front runner. Weak mentally. Always has been. It's why he froze up in a state championship game as a junior when everyone expected him to dominate in the 4th and show case his overwhelming talent, but instead slung the ball to much less capable teammates. At this point, it was just a rare example. But, where there is smoke, there is FLAME. 

It's why he grew up in Cleveland rooting for the Cowboys, Bulls, and Yankees. All 1990's sports POWERHOUSES. Afraid to root for hometown loser. With no pain and suffering, comes no GLORIOUS success.

It's why he is even in South Beach with a Heat jerset on. He shunned the chance to be an NBA version of Moses. A true legend leading his pathetic hometown sports franchise to the ULTIMATE glory. 

It's why he came home with a LeBRONZE medal as Team USA's "leader" in the 2006 FIBA Americas.

It's why he gave up on Cleveland in the 2010 playoffs. He knew they had no shot at winning (only if he didn't have the heart, and the hope to TRY ... and BALL his heart out) 

It's why he became so flustered in the 2011 Finals, that the stadium should have blasted Mobb Deep's "Shook Ones" as his anthem, as 80 year old Jason Kidd kept him on LOCK down. How 5'5 JJ Barea kept him from putting him in the post on the block. 

He's afraid of failure. A loser. In every definition of the word, a bonnafide loser. All that monumental god given gifts (6'7, freakish athleticism, strength, speed, and quickness) and absolutely NO HEART. No spirit de combat to face and beat the best, and perform his best on the world's brightest stage, under the greatest pressure.

The LEGENDS like West, Bird, Magic, MJ, Kobe ... even if they failed at times, LIVED for that moment.

True heroes of the hardwood, and sports in general know greatness courts failure. You have to be willing to take that chance. That's what makes someone courageous.

He's afraid of failure to the point that it cripples him. Anytime the pressure is there, and the chance of greatness or failure is on the line. He freezes up, and his greatest player in the league status is reduced to a role player at best.

If it isn't a sure bet he will win, he doesn't try. That's why we've seen him cowardly back out on his word to be in the dunk contest so many times. It's why the only time he seemed "clutch" in the playoffs last year (in the Celtics series Wade kept them in the games with his amazing play), it gave LeBron the confidence to play well to close them out. Against the Bulls, Haslem and Wade led comebacks with their defense, and in Wade's case his offense errupted late in the series in game 5 (including a 4 point play 3 ball) ... THEN all of a sudden LeBron has the confidence to take and hit MAJOR shots (even if he blatantly shuffled his feet and traveled on quite a few of those shots)

The way he deals with criticism is soft, he can't take it and use it as fuel. He CAN'T be that guy.

All I'm saying is this kid continues to disgust me as a long time fan of the game. All that all-time talent. GOAT capability since he came into the league. And starting in 2009, I was actually starting to believe. But in the past year and a half to two years, this kid has shown what he's made of ... and it is NOTHING but cowardice. All words, no action. Pathetic.

If only someone with stronger INSIDES both in the chest, and head had that AMAZING talent and body. Basketball fans are being CHEATED. He's CHEATING himself.

1st post, and rant over. Sorry. haha


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## roux (Jun 20, 2006)

wow


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## BlakeJesus (Feb 1, 2006)

Yo dude, LeBron is 6'9" not 6'7" smh.


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## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

Yo dude, LeBron got Bronze at the FIBA World Championship not the Americas and that was because the team had no big men to stop Greece.


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

Samurai Swish said:


> 1st post


Hopefully it's your last.

Now, a moment of silence for all those noble brain cells that perished during the reading of that post.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Dudes right. Lebron always so afraid of losing or looking bad that its damaged his career.

You can't really argue against that.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Adam said:


> Yo dude, LeBron got Bronze at the FIBA World Championship not the Americas and that was because the team had no big men to stop Greece.


No big men to stop Greece. That's priceless.


Obviously the loss isn't Lebrons fault, but I love how you are always so quick to point the finger.


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## Samurai Swish (Feb 3, 2012)

All the bitter LeBron fans coming out to play. LeBron is 6'7 almost 6'8. He's listed as 6'8, he's really like 6'7. LOL @ anyone believing NBA listed heights. And even then he's listed at 6'8, when on earth did he become 6'9? But that's bdesides the main point of the topic at hand, I'm just emphasizing his amazing natural gifts and tools. The point is he doesn't UTILIZE those tools to their maximum capabilities.

Face palms all around to everyone not named R-Star. Especially to someone who believes LeBron James is a legit 6'9. Myth.

Truth hurts I know, kiddos. But too much has happened in the past 2 years that has blatantly revealed who this guy really is, and what he is really made of NOT to ignore. It validates everything we know about him. 

Team USA didn't have significant bigs in the tournament of the Americas in 2007, and the Olympics in 2008. They had Duncan in 2004, and that didn't help either. 

We lost because he didn't lead by example. He didn't start playing really good defense until AFTER the summer of 2007, when coincidentally two players were added that stressed DEFENSE. And were willing to put their star offensive powers aside and just devote themselves to defense. What happened? We started blowing teams out by 20, 30+ points again.

Carmelo Anthony was Team USA 2006 BEST and most clutch player. Where was LeBron at? We lost the Greece game because they couldn't defend. Specifically the pick and roll. Had NOTHING to do with lack of big men.

LeBron didn't assert his other worldly abilities on the games. Who did everyone on the team turn to ORGANICALLY in the most pressure packed game of the 2008 Olympics? Was it LeBron? Ask yourself these questions ...

I knew this post could possibly ruffle some feathers, but the reaction is justifies. It stings because ... well it's the truth.


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## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

Samurai Swish said:


> All the bitter LeBron fans coming out to play. LeBron is 6'7 almost 6'8. He's listed as 6'8, he's really like 6'7. LOL @ anyone believing NBA listed heights. And even then he's listed at 6'8, when on earth did he become 6'9? But that's bdesides the main point of the topic at hand, I'm just emphasizing his amazing natural gifts and tools. The point is he doesn't UTILIZE those tools to their maximum capabilities.


Coming out of high school he measured in at 6'8" without shoes during the predraft measurements, so he's definitely no shorter than that. It's extremely plausible that he grew a half inch to an inch after the age of 18 (Durant shot up like 2 inches after being drafted, and he had a year of college) but I can't find any official measurements from after the draft. For what it's worth, he looks to be almost Dwight's height when they stand side-by-side, and Dwight's 6'10", so there's that.


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## Samurai Swish (Feb 3, 2012)

Bogg said:


> Coming out of high school he measured in at 6'8" without shoes during the predraft measurements, so he's definitely no shorter than that.


No he wasn't, even though we are arguing semantics, he was measured at 6'7 1/2. He most certainly isn't 6 foot 9 ... and I don't know when that myth started being perpetuated. 

But that is all besides the point. The point is LeBron has no guts. No heart. Spineless. A coward. Afraid of failure. THIS IS THE ACTUAL POINT. Let's not change the direction of what this thread, and what LeFail Shames has proven himself to be, time and time again with his actions.



Bogg said:


> For what it's worth, he looks to be almost Dwight's height when they stand side-by-side, and Dwight's 6'10", so there's that.


Now he is 6'10? LOL ... He doesn't look like Dwight's height. Durant is 6'11 and he looks a solid 2 - 3 inches taller than LeBron. Once again, beside the point. And if he is 6'9 or as you claim 6'10, that makes my point even greater. All those immense gifts, no heart to back it up.


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

Who really gives a **** about the dunk contest? I bet you could find a dozen guys who could win the dunk contest without ever having a prayer of making an NBA roster. The only thing lamer than the dunk contest has become are people who make a big deal out of it and who wants to be a part of it. It ain't the Holocaust and no puppies will be killed if Lebron does not dunk.


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## Geaux Tigers (Apr 26, 2004)

Don't dog new posters that at least have an average grasp on the English language and aren't trying to spam...I mean this is a fricken messageboard.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Funny thing is DWade was asked the same question, and gave the same answer...but you didn't flip out about that. Lebron's an in-game dunker. And he's honest with himself enough to know that. He shouldn't have even won the dunk contest in high school.

Frankly if I were a team I wouldn't want my superstar doing any all-star events if I could help it. With this condensed schedule have an extra few nights rest is huge.


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## ChosenFEW (Jun 23, 2005)

Samurai Swish said:


> Ever wonder why one of ... if not the most supremely gifted basketball player of all-time continually fails time and time again, when success would be a lock? Ever wonder why such a talented player and BEAST of a man, is reduced to rubble and a midget in the game's most intense and pressured moments, and on it's greatest stage?
> 
> His comments yesterday about the dunk contest, a microcosm ... peeling back like an onion what is at the heart of this monster of a talent. Better yet, a complete LACK of heart.
> 
> ...




thats a rep worthy post!!


now prepare to get flamed by the heat [fans]


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## MarioChalmers (Mar 26, 2004)

Geaux Tigers said:


> Don't dog new posters that at least have an average grasp on the English language and aren't trying to spam...I mean this is a fricken messageboard.


I agree to an extent. 

Then again, I'd like to think message boards like this are for us to talk about a game we like, not to write lengthy tirades about players we "hate." 

But I might be asking for too much!


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

futuristxen said:


> Funny thing is DWade was asked the same question, and gave the same answer...but you didn't flip out about that. Lebron's an in-game dunker. And he's honest with himself enough to know that. He shouldn't have even won the dunk contest in high school.
> 
> Frankly if I were a team I wouldn't want my superstar doing any all-star events if I could help it. With this condensed schedule have an extra few nights rest is huge.


Dwyane Wade is an overachiever, never gave himself any kind of monikers, such as the "chosen one" etc 

Please don't ever compare a blue collar lunch pail guy like D Wade to LeBron James.


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## dantheman9758 (Jan 27, 2012)

BlakeJesus said:


> Yo dude, LeBron is 6'9" not 6'7" smh.


Stop shakin your head... 

www.draftexpress.com/measurements

Lebron James: 6'7.25"
He chose to be listed at 6'8 as per his measurement "in shoes".

Here's a 6'10 guy:
Kevin Love: except not really. He's 6'7.75 barefoot

Here's a 6'11 guy:
Dwight Howard: except not really. _This_ is a guy who's 6'9 barefoot

Pretty much the entire NBA lists themselves with grossly overrated heights. Unless you have a source for barefoot measurements don't pretend you "know" a players height. The tape measure don't lie.. "Listed" heights do...


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## dantheman9758 (Jan 27, 2012)

Bogg said:


> Coming out of high school he measured in at 6'8" without shoes during the predraft measurements, so he's definitely no shorter than that. It's extremely plausible that he grew a half inch to an inch after the age of 18 (Durant shot up like 2 inches after being drafted, and he had a year of college) but I can't find any official measurements from after the draft. For what it's worth, he looks to be almost Dwight's height when they stand side-by-side, and Dwight's 6'10", so there's that.


:whofarted

wrong...
http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/

scroll down to the "6'7.25" area. 

Some players grow after they are drafted. Many do not. The vast majority of the ones that do, only grow fractions of an inch at the most. KD definitely hasn't grown much if at all since he was a rookie. definitely NOT 2". He'd be as tall as Javale McGee if he did... lmfao

Kevin Durant is one of the ONLY players in the entire league who has chosen to list himself barefoot (6'9) vs his in shoes height (which could be anywhere from 6'9.5-6'10.25 depending on how big of a heal he likes). That's fact not speculation. My take is that as a result of his against-the-grain decision NOT to exaggerate his height it has confused the hell out of people like you, who think that looking at him standing next to some other player of whatever bogus listed height they have is going to give you some sort of "gauge" on his height. It's not. Published and recorded tape measurements of players in their bare-feet is the only way you'll ever get a grasp on an NBA players true height, not some hair-brained image speculation.

Dwight Howard 6'9 barefoot, 6'10.25 in shoes, 6'11 listed height. 
Kevin Durant 6'9 barefoot, who the eff knows in shoes, 6'9 listed height.
Lebron James 6'7.25 barefoot, 6'8 in shoes, 6'8 listed height
Kevin Love 6'7.75 barefoot, 6'9 in shoes, 6'10 listed height
Glen Davis 6'7.75 barefoot, 6'9 in shoes, 6'9 listed height
Kobe Bryant 6'4.75 barefoot, who the eff knows in shoes, 6'7 listed height as a rookie changed to 6'6 after he got his haircut (not kidding) 

Can you find the connection of how www.NBA.com's official NBA list-heights directly correlated to those players TRUE barefoot heights? I'll give you a clue. There is no correlation. And you'll never be able to guess a guy's height comparing him with another guy using NBA LIST HEIGHTS as your control. Because LIST HEIGHTS aren't true. And even if you know one guy's barefoot height you STILL CAN'T use him standing next to someone else as a means to accurately guess height. Because different players wear shoes with different sized heals. AND I doubt that people like yourself have figured out that perspective and depth-of-field are all a natural part of sports photography, and they cause distortion and certainly can create a false sense of scale. So unless a guy had a tape measure to him your never going to figure out how tall he is. And if a guy HAS had a tape measure put up to him and you openly choose to discard such measurements bc you think your hocus-pocus guesswork is more accurate than one, than I've lost my faith in the human race...


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## ChrisWoj (May 17, 2005)

Samurai Swish said:


> No he wasn't, even though we are arguing semantics, he was measured at 6'7 1/2. He most certainly isn't 6 foot 9 ... and I don't know when that myth started being perpetuated.
> 
> But that is all besides the point. The point is LeBron has no guts. No heart. Spineless. A coward. Afraid of failure. THIS IS THE ACTUAL POINT. Let's not change the direction of what this thread, and what LeFail Shames has proven himself to be, time and time again with his actions.
> 
> ...


So wait... you're arguing Lebron is 6'7... and not 6'8 or 6'9. And then you go and say "Durant is 6'11 and he looks a solid 2-3 inches taller than Lebron." - So, by your logic Lebron looks to be 6'8 or 6'9... but you insist, he's only 6'7?

I'm pretty much on the Lebron wilts bandwagon, but that point made me laugh. The guy is 6'9 and 265+, he just doesn't want to be looked at as a post guy so he lists himself a little smaller than he is. Much like how Kevin Garnett refused to be listed at 7' when he was younger because he didn't want anyone to think he was a center. I mean look at his weight if you want an example of Lebron listing himself smaller than he is...








This is Lebron at 245, his weight going into his rookie season.









Yeah, he's only put on 5 pounds in the past eight years...


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

You should leave The Baconator's measurements out of your list, as Davis was never measured at the pre-draft camp and DE is using a rumour (as even they admit).


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

First post is rooted in truth. I guess this devolved into measurements and shit...but Lebron's an ultimate frontrunner. I watch him dunk and stare and do this and that...knowing come 4th quarter he's going to have that deer in the headlights look and not want the ball. He's like a chick you've figured out and you don't know how you feel about being able to call their next move.

I truly think that's what'll keep him from being GOAT.

What's sad is there are still people in here that will fight this tooth and nail as if the people seeing this are just psychos with great imaginations. 

Hopefully he has some kind of breakthrough or speaks to a sports psychologist cause he's running out of female family members to blame


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Dre said:


> First post is rooted in truth. I guess this devolved into measurements and shit...but Lebron's an ultimate frontrunner. I watch him dunk and stare and do this and that...knowing come 4th quarter he's going to have that deer in the headlights look and not want the ball. He's like a chick you've figured out and you don't know how you feel about being able to call their next move.
> 
> I truly think that's what'll keep him from being GOAT.
> 
> ...


Yep. Anyone who argues Lebrons talent is an idiot. But the fact is, the guy is scared to death of looking bad, and its hampered his game.

In Cleveland he could blame having a shit team. Now hes on a super team and he has no excuses. They lost last year mainly because of him. Adam, Future and the rest can argue that, but they all know deep down its true.


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## dantheman9758 (Jan 27, 2012)

E.H. Munro said:


> You should leave The Baconator's measurements out of your list, as Davis was never measured at the pre-draft camp and DE is using a rumour (as even they admit).


Noted, TY. I see the asterisk associated with his name on their profile list now. My prior point still remains though


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## Geaux Tigers (Apr 26, 2004)

LeBron is basketballs manifestation of the hype society. He came into fruition on the cusp of internet social media, the complete monopolization of sports information by ESPN, the popularity of high school recruiting (the "next" mentality) and vacuum left behind by MJ. Lebron has everything but the substance because you can't create greatness in a lab it has to be forged from hardship. Dudes the Ivan Drago of the NBA. Lebron is that one facebook chick that collects 858 "friends" because of her ginormous tits but no one really likes her. You like Lebron because you are supposed to like LeBron because Sports Illustrated told you that you would be futurecool in 2002. The secret everyone knows.


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## ChrisWoj (May 17, 2005)

Geaux Tigers said:


> LeBron is basketballs manifestation of the hype society. He came into fruition on the cusp of internet social media, the complete monopolization of sports information by ESPN, the popularity of high school recruiting (the "next" mentality) and vacuum left behind by MJ. Lebron has everything but the substance because you can't create greatness in a lab it has to be forged from hardship. Dudes the Ivan Drago of the NBA. Lebron is that one facebook chick that collects 858 "friends" because of her ginormous tits but no one really likes her. You like Lebron because you are supposed to like LeBron because Sports Illustrated told you that you would be futurecool in 2002. The secret everyone knows.


Chrissake you make it sound like he's a journeyman. The fact is that, in terms of achieving what he was hyped to be - he's done a better job than probably any other high school phenom we've ever seen. Has he proven perfect? No. Is he the GOAT? Hell no. Does he wilt under pressure? Yup. But is he a phenomenal basketball player, at the top tier of the NBA, a clear superstar based on skill, and all that as a fulfillment of expectations placed upon his shoulders when he was a junior in high school? Yes, yes he is. He's not quite what we want him to be, but by any measure he has achieved what he was expected to achieve.

In 2002 there were people saying "We'd take this HS Junior over Jason Williams and Yao Ming." ... And people thought they were crazy for saying that. Given a second shot at that? They'd say the same damn thing based on results. Its not like SI was hyping him to be Jordan in 02. They were saying the question was worth asking: Could he be the next Jordan? And you know what, even eight years into his career, with no rings, and it clear that he's not Jordan... its still worth saying: He's fulfilled the hype.

Whether or not he fulfills our expectations is another thing entirely.


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## dantheman9758 (Jan 27, 2012)

ChrisWoj said:


> So wait... you're arguing Lebron is 6'7... and not 6'8 or 6'9. And then you go and say "Durant is 6'11 and he looks a solid 2-3 inches taller than Lebron." - So, by your logic Lebron looks to be 6'8 or 6'9... but you insist, he's only 6'7?
> 
> I'm pretty much on the Lebron wilts bandwagon, but that point made me laugh. The guy is 6'9 and 265+, he just doesn't want to be looked at as a post guy so he lists himself a little smaller than he is. Much like how Kevin Garnett refused to be listed at 7' when he was younger because he didn't want anyone to think he was a center. I mean look at his weight if you want an example of Lebron listing himself smaller than he is...
> 
> ...


I'd like to jump in right here and say that I believe draftexpress.com's 6'7.25 > any speculative # that strays outside of 1/4" of growth TOPS. Second I'd also like to say I agree NBA listed heights AND weights are BS. But if I can offer some insight:


A. Image 1 is a promotional image shot with a 35mm-50mm lens in bright soft light to hide shadow. In photography this lenses focal length tends to make things look more natural as it is closely analogous to the human eye. It's studio lighting is also carefully chosen to hide shadow and highlight to keep things looking natural.

B. Image 2 is a promotional image shot with a 50mm-80mm lens with heavily shadowed studio lighting basically to deliberately make Lebron look like a buff badass. 

If you flip flopped Lebron of today and put him in the setting of image 1, and visa versa, the young Lebron would look far more buff in image scenario two, and the older Lebron would look much much less jacked in image 1. This is why you can't just use sports photography images to support an argument. I don't even actually disagree that Lebron is 265lbs now, in fact I believe an article was published this past lockout that mentioned he was like 263 or something really close to the ballpark of 265 I'm 100% on board that he weighs more. But it isn't such a huge difference that in similarly staged photographs our eyes would see such dramatic differences on a 2d plane, when there's only been an 8 percent body mass change.

And... because both are promotional images (with two entirely different agenda's of showcasing him) they are also NOT immune to photoshop to FURTHER exaggerate any said agenda. Image two is not even categorized as a photograph it's a straight up photo-manipulation that was definitely cropped and tweaked like hell in photoshop. 

Also, I'm going to use some of my scientific-illustration background and drop an "if-then" bomb:

*If any 3-dimensional object is locked in equal proportion, and increases on one plane (X axis... = height)
*Then it also has to increase an equal percentage of change on Y(width) and Z planes(depth) and mass will increase the collective 3 fold percentage of change.

In english that means if Lebron grew from 79.25" in height to 81" in height (a difference of 2.21%) than his mass must increase by a minimum of 6.63% for him not to look any skinnier in muscle mass or bulk. If this was true, Lebron's weight would be 16.3lbs heavier without ever looking any more buff than day one of his rookie season fresh out of High School. And he'd only be less than 4lbs shy of his already current 265lb playing weight. So either he's never increased more than 4lbs of legit visible muscle bulk in the gym and grew 1.75", or he didn't grow at all and packed on 20lbs of visible muscle bulk. There is no possible way both could have happened and gotten him to the weight of 265. To me, it looks like he put a solid 20lbs on in the gym and did not grew much in height, if at all. Your pics exaggerated the effect but they did still point in the right direction that he is bigger now a days. On film, the 3 dimensional effect allows us to better see this change and he is certainly noticeably thinner as a rookie. But that wouldn't be possible if he grew to 6'9. At his current weight he'd look essentially the same today as he did when he was a rookie if he grew that much.

All this plus Lebron also does not seem like he's any taller than other guys that DE measured to a similar 6'7-6'7.5. Does it really bother people that much to think that he along with pretty much every NBA player you know of is NOT likely to pan out as tall (next to a ruler) as you think? They're still huge up close and in person, it's not like these guys ever shrank. List heights are always traditionally inflated it's common practice. Ever since the 1980's only a select few guys have ever under-sold the popular "in-shoes" height-boosting excuse and chosen to be listed barefoot like old-school players used to do. Everyone else of the modern NBA likes that ego boost and/or promotional value of a generously inflated list height.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

Jesus titty****ing christ on a jalapeño cracker you people are ****ing crazy. Just look at his ****ing neck you ninny. Ain't no ****ing camera angle & lighting changing the gawdamned shape.


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## dantheman9758 (Jan 27, 2012)

E.H. Munro said:


> Jesus titty****ing christ on a jalapeño cracker you people are ****ing crazy. Just look at his ****ing neck you ninny. Ain't no ****ing camera angle & lighting changing the gawdamned shape.


I 100% agreed he weighed more and bulked up did you even read the post? I didn't babble on "like a ninny" to disagree with that, I explained why using professional sports photographs with totally different settings like he used is in general, not a good way to draw any sort of accurate conclusions. Whether you care or not camera angles/lighting/pose/lenses DO enhance any multitude of effects the photographer desires whether it be to make a player look intimidating/buff/longer/taller/shorter etc. Read the post before you go calling people crazy, as I was just offering my personal insight on something I have experience with. Photography is not a good ruler, artists use it as their avenue for visual enhancement not visual accuracy. That is all.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

23AJ said:


> Dwyane Wade is an overachiever, never gave himself any kind of monikers, such as the "chosen one" etc
> 
> Please don't ever compare a blue collar lunch pail guy like D Wade to LeBron James.


Oh good grief.


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

after having read the two pages of this thread I have come to the conclusion that you guys all suck (so much)


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

e-monk said:


> after having read the two pages of this thread I have come to the conclusion that you guys all suck (so much)


When are you going to fix your settings? This thread is still on the first page.


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## rynobot (Oct 10, 2002)

The default setting is the setting God intended everyone to use.


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## eddymac (Jun 23, 2005)

It's just a pity that the games best wing players (LeBron and Wade) never competed in a dunk contest. In the past we had Dr J, Dominique Wilkins, Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant and Vince Carter compete In it and win it.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

eddymac said:


> It's just a pity that the games best wing players (LeBron and Wade) never competed in a dunk contest. In the past we had Dr J, Dominique Wilkins, Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant and Vince Carter compete In it and win it.


Generally speaking I really hate the dunk contest. It's a sideshow for losers like Gerald Green. Twenty years ago, I guess, it was just guys throwing down in-game type dunks, but in this case James & Wade are right. It's reality TV for basketball fans these days. They're no good at the carnival dunks so what's the point? 

People are obsessively reading way too much into this nonsense. It's sad, and pathetic, how much like bored housewives people are. This thread is like a frigging soap opera forum. Every actual fact that doesn't fit into the present soap opera storyline has vanished down the memory hole. Christ, they've even forgot last year's Cadavaliers. It's hilariously insane.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

E.H. Munro said:


> Generally speaking I really hate the dunk contest. It's a sideshow for losers like Gerald Green. Twenty years ago, I guess, it was just guys throwing down in-game type dunks, but in this case James & Wade are right. It's reality TV for basketball fans these days. They're no good at the carnival dunks so what's the point?
> 
> People are obsessively reading way too much into this nonsense. It's sad, and pathetic, how much like bored housewives people are. This thread is like a frigging soap opera forum. Every actual fact that doesn't fit into the present soap opera storyline has vanished down the memory hole. Christ, they've even forgot last year's Cadavaliers. It's hilariously insane.


In this case, what facts exactly are we talking about here?


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

rynobot said:


> The default setting is the setting God intended everyone to use.


this is exactly right, if God had intended us to scroll down forever that's the way it would be, change the settings at your own risk of hellfire and eternal damnation (and scrolling)


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

E.H. Munro said:


> Generally speaking I really hate the dunk contest. It's a sideshow for losers like Gerald Green. Twenty years ago, I guess, it was just guys throwing down in-game type dunks, but in this case James & Wade are right. It's reality TV for basketball fans these days. They're no good at the carnival dunks so what's the point?
> 
> People are obsessively reading way too much into this nonsense. It's sad, and pathetic, how much like bored housewives people are. This thread is like a frigging soap opera forum. Every actual fact that doesn't fit into the present soap opera storyline has vanished down the memory hole. Christ, they've even forgot last year's Cadavaliers. It's hilariously insane.


People do seem to pile on Lebron. The Heat will be Dwyane Wade's team until Boston beats them in the playoffs, at which time LeBron will prove that he just can't win like that nice Kobe.


----------



## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

rynobot said:


> The default setting is the setting God intended everyone to use.


It's fine to have your beliefs, but don't go shoving them in my face!


----------



## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)




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## Samurai Swish (Feb 3, 2012)

E.H. Munro said:


> People are obsessively reading way too much into this nonsense.


Not really, it is quite visibly a major insight into the guy's lack of character. As many things have become eivdent over the past several years. Has nothing to do about reading too much into something at all. The issue at hand isn't about him actually competing in the dunk contest. Your head must be thick like concrete.

No one here hates LeBron James ... I certainly don't. Enormous all-time talent, GOAT capability, I was quite the fan and believer until he completely destroyed his own credibility, time after time. He just doesn't have the mental toughness, or heart to be the player her's capable of being. It's a sad reality for any educated non LeBron / Heat stan to realize.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

He is Prince James. He hasn't won anything since high school.


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## cpawfan (Jun 20, 2004)

Geaux Tigers said:


> Don't dog new posters that at least have an average grasp on the English language and aren't trying to spam...I mean this is a fricken messageboard.


Previously banned members who are posting again under a different name deserve to be dogged.


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## Samurai Swish (Feb 3, 2012)

cpawfan said:


> Previously banned members who are posting again under a different name deserve to be dogged.


I have never posted here, period ... let alone banned. I was on another basketball message board (ISH) that ended up getting swamped with un-educated trolls, young dumb basketball fans and I migrated here.

Only to find ultra-sensitive, young, naive (possibly really dumb) butt hurt LeBron / Miami stans, acting like one can't be critical of a pro athlete with OBVIOUS mental flaws and consequent failures and turn it around on the critics and become ultra protective of LeBron, and act as if we are getting on his case for things that aren't justified.


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## cpawfan (Jun 20, 2004)

Samurai Swish said:


> I have never posted here, period ... let alone banned. I was on another basketball message board (ISH) that ended up getting swamped with un-educated trolls, young dumb basketball fans and I migrated here.
> 
> Only to find ultra-sensitive, young, naive (possibly really dumb) butt hurt LeBron / Miami stans, acting like one can't be critical of a pro athlete with OBVIOUS mental flaws and consequent failures and turn it around on the critics and become ultra protective of LeBron, and act as if we are getting on his case for things that aren't justified.


Cool story

Not original, but a cool story


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## Headliner (Aug 11, 2011)

A lot of what he said is true. Just came off as a little outraged or harsh. 

Lebron's heart has always been in question. The issue with Lebron is a number of things:

a)He was treated as the second coming of jesus as a kid. That can be very damaging to somebody especially if they don't have anyone to keep that person humble. 
b)He never went to college. In addition to "a", he was never able to mature. 
c)He's still young. He's only what....27?


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## Samurai Swish (Feb 3, 2012)

cpawfan said:


> Cool story
> 
> Not original, but a cool story


Ohhh, you got me Sherlock Holmes. I mean really, what are you the message board hall monitor? Even if I was a former member, and I was banned ... who cares, really?

Does it make my points any less valid? Nope.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

cpawfan said:


> Previously banned members who are posting again under a different name deserve to be dogged.


What about admins that post less than previously banned members?


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## ChrisWoj (May 17, 2005)

dantheman9758 said:


> I 100% agreed he weighed more and bulked up did you even read the post? I didn't babble on "like a ninny" to disagree with that, I explained why using professional sports photographs with totally different settings like he used is in general, not a good way to draw any sort of accurate conclusions. Whether you care or not camera angles/lighting/pose/lenses DO enhance any multitude of effects the photographer desires whether it be to make a player look intimidating/buff/longer/taller/shorter etc. Read the post before you go calling people crazy, as I was just offering my personal insight on something I have experience with. Photography is not a good ruler, artists use it as their avenue for visual enhancement not visual accuracy. That is all.


I think you can look at the arms in the photo, proportional to the body. Same for the neck. And most importantly, to me, the lats - in the second photo he is quite clearly filling out the jersey, it isn't a matter of a smaller jersey either, he's clearly bigger - the photographs work as evidence.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

R-Star said:


> In this case, what facts exactly are we talking about here?


Oh, I don't know, how the "deer in the headlights" once scored the final 29 points of a closeout game in the ECF against the Pistons? The way the "loser" carried a lottery team to multiple 60 win seasons? Just a thought.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

Cinco de Mayo said:


>


Props to the sanest post in the entire thread.



Jamel Irief said:


> People do seem to pile on Lebron. The Heat will be Dwyane Wade's team until Boston beats them in the playoffs, at which time LeBron will prove that he just can't win like that nice Kobe.


Hey, I've been saying since last year the Heat need to get rid of Wade or James. The two of them together clearly don't work, and neither of them are capable of transforming themselves into Ray Allen (and really, why would you want either of them to?). The Heat should sack up and push for a Dead President/Superman deal. Sure it'd piss a lot of people off, but several titles later that'd be forgotten.



Blue said:


> He is Prince James. He hasn't won anything since high school.


Neither has "the People's Elbow". Christ, the PE can't even win regular season games at the moment. I'd still take him in a cocaine heartbeat


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

He's been living off that Pistons 4th for like 5 years now, noone's forgetting it. If it weren't for that moment of capability (along with Orlando) I'd be a lot more cruel.

Go back to the series threads...the analysts...retired players...all wondering what happened to LeBron all of a sudden. But oh we're reading too much into it and making a mountain out of a molehill.

This is going on two straight season ending series' in his prime that he was steamrolling everyone then just bizarrely looked like a tense, overwhelmed guy. And he's looked the same in these 4th quarters this year. 

What are the apologists explanation for these moments? What can you say to me that would rationalize these failures by the most talented player in the world? Can you do something besides try to joke around and ignore this pattern? Can you explain it?

Don't give me that Jordan narrative BS either because Jordan had his inevitable failures but he never looked scared. 

It's like some people just dismiss these moments as soon as they're at arm's length. And this is coming from someone who Jamel thought was affiliated with LeBron at one point.... R-Star called me a homer over cause I was "obsessed" with defending him, I'm not some guy on here with a weirdo vendetta. I love the guy's game I just wished he followed through with it.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

but **** it, I'm crazy and LeBronze is a ch0kerrr

















































Because that's all comprehension deficient idiots on here will read


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## cpawfan (Jun 20, 2004)

Samurai Swish said:


> Ohhh, you got me Sherlock Holmes. I mean really, what are you the message board hall monitor? Even if I was a former member, and I was banned ... who cares, really?
> 
> Does it make my points any less valid? Nope.


Nice attempt to deflect

When PEOPLE type like THIS on message boards, yes it MEANS they don't have a VALID point.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

E.H. Munro said:


> Oh, I don't know, how the "deer in the headlights" once scored the final 29 points of a closeout game in the ECF against the Pistons? The way the "loser" carried a lottery team to multiple 60 win seasons? Just a thought.


Lotto team to 60 wins? No. Sorry. It was a solid team built around him, that wasn't good enough to make it. It was not a lotto team by any means. 

And he had 29 points once? Wowy ****ing zowy. He also lost the finals for the Heat last year. 

Just a thought.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

cpawfan said:


> Nice attempt to deflect
> 
> When PEOPLE type like THIS on message boards, yes it MEANS they don't have a VALID point.


You really aren't adding anything of value to this thread, now are you?


This seems to be a recurring theme whenever you try to step into threads you shouldn't be in.


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## cpawfan (Jun 20, 2004)

R-Star said:


> You really aren't adding anything of value to this thread, now are you?
> 
> 
> This seems to be a recurring theme whenever you try to step into threads you shouldn't be in.


Oh no, whatever should I do. The over matched R-star is making another pointless and weak attempt to attack me. I do give you credit though, at least you take your bannings like a man.

This thread has no value in the first place. Secondly, it is quite hilarious that your are attempting to stick up for this poster considering all the insults they hurled at you under other user names. Perhaps he was correct in his assessment of you.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

cpawfan said:


> Oh no, whatever should I do. The over matched R-star is making another pointless and weak attempt to attack me. I do give you credit though, at least you take your bannings like a man.
> 
> This thread has no value in the first place.


My banning like a man? You understand I was asked to come back, correct? 

"This thread has no face value" yet you came in, have made multiple posts about nothing, and are now attempting to fight with multiple posters.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

Can we not


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

cpawfan said:


> Oh no, whatever should I do. The over matched R-star is making another pointless and weak attempt to attack me. I do give you credit though, at least you take your bannings like a man.
> 
> This thread has no value in the first place. Secondly, it is quite hilarious that your are attempting to stick up for this poster considering all the insults they hurled at you under other user names. Perhaps he was correct in his assessment of you.


It's a two page thread on a message board that most of the admins and mods neglect. That counts.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

cpawfan said:


> Oh no, whatever should I do. The over matched R-star is making another pointless and weak attempt to attack me. I do give you credit though, at least you take your bannings like a man.
> 
> This thread has no value in the first place. Secondly, it is quite hilarious that your are attempting to *stick up for this poster considering all the insults they hurled at you under other user names. Perhaps he was correct in his assessment of you.*


Either that, or it could be that as a 29 year old adult, I could care less what someone behind a keyboard thinks about me, and only reply because I like giving douche bags (yourself) a hard time.

But I agree with Dre. Why waste time on this. We'll all just go back to no one ever replying to your posts. It must be lonely.


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## Samurai Swish (Feb 3, 2012)

cpawfan said:


> Secondly, it is quite hilarious that your are attempting to stick up for this poster considering all the insults they hurled at you under other user names. Perhaps he was correct in his assessment of you.


Huh? You are crazy my friend. Literally have no clue what you're talking about. Internet conspiracies. Weird.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

R-Star said:


> Lotto team to 60 wins? No. Sorry. It was a solid team built around him, that wasn't good enough to make it. It was not a lotto team by any means.


A "solid team" that won 19 games when he left town.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

They didn't just lose LeBron though. Z, Shaq and Delonte West were integral to what they did


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

E.H. Munro said:


> A "solid team" that won 19 games when he left town.


They lost key players. And that's a terrible argument and I've pointed it out before. Take Howard off the Magic and who are they? Take away Durant and you think Westbrook is taking a team anywhere? What about Kobe?

After Boozer gave the big **** you to Lebron and the Cavs, Lebron never had that reliable second option semi star player, but he did have a very solid vet team built around him. I don't blame him for not winning with them, but it was a solid team.


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

The Cavs minus LeBron were absolutely terrible. Inexcusably bad.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

Dre said:


> They didn't just lose LeBron though. Z, Shaq and Delonte West were integral to what they did


The loss of oft-injured roleplayers doesn't cause a 40+ win implosion. Sorry.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

E.H. Munro said:


> A "solid team" that won 19 games when he left town.


Lebron didn't win 60 games with Christian eyenga, samardo Samuels and Ryan hollins starting.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

Dre said:


> They didn't just lose LeBron though. Z, Shaq and Delonte West were integral to what they did


And varejao, who was out for the year. It would of been like last years lakers losing Kobe, Bynum, odom and artest.


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

It would be like that team losing Lebron and three washed up artests maybe, but Lebron never played with anyone who was more than a roleplayer the entire time he was in Cleveland. Z has not been capable of playing more than 30 minutes a night since his wheels fell off. Lebron has never really played on a team with championship level talent. He is being held to a really high standard and persecuted for not being perfect, but you'd have a hard time finding anyone else who could have won under the same circumstances. If you replace him with Kobe all you'd get is a trade demand.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

E.H. Munro said:


> The loss of oft-injured roleplayers doesn't cause a 40+ win implosion. Sorry.


Losing their best player kind of didn't help their record either.

I like how in your comparison, the team shouldn't miss a beat when Lebron left.


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## BlackNRed (Feb 9, 2005)

ChosenFEW said:


> thats a rep worthy post!!
> 
> 
> now prepare to get flamed by the heat [fans]


Nope, I don't really care to be honest. I mean, what can I really say to Lebron's quote? I don't agree with it, but it's whatever. I'd like to see him in the dunk contest, but I'd like to see him win a championship with us a lot more.

In fact, a big reason why I hated Lebron was his attitude, but now that he rolls with us I kinda have to embrace it. Doesn't hurt that he's the best player in the NBA neither.


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

Ahhh, sometimes people just look stupid when they nitpick the guy who is currently crushing the entire league going on about 5 of the last 6 seasons. And yes, if we had this much media 25 years ago, you would be killing MJ for being a loser for not being able to get past Boston and Detroit. It is a baseless argument until you dismiss all the facts that dump on it.

Are Durant and Rose scared losers because they haven't been in the dunk contest or won a title yet either? But I am guessing they can still be great winners even though neither of them have won jack shit since HS either.


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

Dp dp


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

Again you're ignoring the _way_ Lebron's lost. LeBron hasn't just been fair and square beaten by some cutesy rite of passage team he'll eventually beat like Jordan...he's dropped the ball two seasons in a row. You can make up what you want to make up about what Skip Bayless would think about MJ, but the fact remains he went out firing everytime he lost. He never looked like a roleplayer all of a sudden, and *that* is the difference for now.

Everyone agrees if he played the way he's capable of the Heat would've beat us last year. They could've beat the Celtics the year before... 

You can crush the regular season all you want, I guess that impresses you.

You can try to play the overaggressive media card if you want..in some instances it's true...in some instances 20,000 people can't be wrong.

Durant and Westbrook were scared to take Jason Terry to the rack in the 4th quarter. They never passed the ball like a hot potato for an entire 4th quarter. They never had a million people saying they quit...and they never tried to engineer excuses about why they weren't playing well.

I just can't believe people want to ignore the way this guy dissappeared in this or the Celtics series. It's doing yourself a disservice to put any faith in this guy until he shows you otherwise. **** a regular season, **** a 1st round and second round...show me something when it's time to get that ring. 

This kind of reminds me of that Aaron Rodgers discussion I just read..insane stats..but what happens when he's no longer a frontrunner?

But go ahead and ignore me, point out regular season stats, post some more cotton candy pictures...hopefully they win this year and you can throw this chapter under the rug.


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

Dallas was better than Miami last year. I don't see how that can really be argued. They absolutely should have won the championship and they did. The Heat had to beat one good team to get to the Finals and Lebron played as well as anyone I have ever seen play in that series. Wade was nowhere to be seen against Chicago, but no one is saying anything about his play. 

Now Lebron sucked against Dallas, and there is no way around it. They played a zone and no one on the Heat could hit jumpshots. We should probably cut his balls off. It was a crime against humanity for Christ's sake.


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

Dre...like I said. You keep ignoring the playoff series he has won. Did you miss him destroy the best team in the league and shut down the current MVP in the playoffs? Why ignore that fact? That was not 5 years ago since you want to dismiss him destroying one of the best defenses in NBA history with championship experience and getting to the finals.

I think it is a walk on stupid that will go like this if the Heat win a title: "Well, if LeBron wasn't a choker, the Heat would have two." and on and on just to criticize LeBron.

And yes, after the way he played vs. Dallas, I am impressed with how he has played during the regular season.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Diable said:


> Dallas was better than Miami last year. I don't see how that can really be argued. They absolutely should have won the championship and they did. The Heat had to beat one good team to get to the Finals and Lebron played as well as anyone I have ever seen play in that series. Wade was nowhere to be seen against Chicago, but no one is saying anything about his play.
> 
> Now Lebron sucked against Dallas, and there is no way around it. They played a zone and no one on the Heat could hit jumpshots. We should probably cut his balls off. It was a crime against humanity for Christ's sake.


So you want to vault him to the hall of fame over his series against the Bulls, but he gets a hall pass for the Mavs series? Yea, that makes a ton of sense.


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## Samurai Swish (Feb 3, 2012)

MemphisX said:


> if we had this much media 25 years ago, you would be killing MJ for being a loser


Except the context is way different. And MJ wasn't a loser. He was suspposed to lose in the 1st round in 1989, took them to the ECF. Not to mention the media was on Jordan's case for not winning, even though being widely considered the game's best individual talent. We saw articles about his gambling, about being really tough on teammates. It wasn't like Jordan was never criticized. He just used it all as fuel. League's leading scorer on a team will never win a ring, etc.

Was supposed to lose against the Pistons, his team was widely considered vastly inferior, and the Pistons had been a championship caliber or defending champion for a long while.

The Bulls were never considered favorites. Even in 1991, they weren't considered by experts to be a lock to beat the Pistons in the ECF, or even the Lakers in the Finals.

LeBron's team was the favorite by experts in 2009, overwhelmingly the favorites in 2010 ... and 2011, given all that incredible talent, and LeBron playing with a similar impactful MVP caliber player. There was NO excuse not to win.

The loser tag comes from his totaly lack of courage. He's a loser given his abilities, and tools that he can't seem to utilize properly. He's weak mentally, has gone out MULTIPLE times w/o even trying. That's a coward, folks.

LeBron is the very definition of loser. MJ was never that. All he needed was a 2nd option that didn't cripple under intensity and physical play, and didn't get shook in the moment. Pippen wasn't all star caliber until 1990, and still was too weak mentally. By 1991, he was ready. Until then, it was Jordan and the Jordanaires.

And LMAO @ acting is if LeBron was the ONLY reason the Cavs went from 60+ wins, to being a lottery team the next season. They lost their coach, multiple players (their franchise player, with no even similar replacement), as well as their 2nd best player (Delonte West)

All these LeBron homers, acting like it is the media being overly critical is ridiculous. This guy has been getting what he has deserved for the past year and a half. Before that, everything was glossed over because he was the media darling.

Dallas WAS NOT better than Miami. If LeBron didn't play to 1/4th of his capabilities the entire series, the Heat would have cruised over the Mavericks.

They gave up that HUGE lead in game 2, LeBron disappearing per usual in 2nd halfs and 4th quarters. They won game 3. They had a chance to win game 4, Wade carrying the entire team in AMAZING fashion, while LeBron James was busy being as impactful as 60 year old Juan Howard on the bench.

From Game 5 on Wade was injured w/ a hip flexor, and then the Mavericks proceeded to run away with the series. The Heat were way more talented. Were the better team, but their 1a / 1b level talent completely didn't show up to even HALF of his capabilities.

I will NOT let LeBron / Miami homers cry "woe is me" and give us a re-visionist version of the 2009, 2010, and 2011 NBA Finals.


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## Samurai Swish (Feb 3, 2012)

MemphisX said:


> Did you miss him destroy the best team in the league and shut down the current MVP in the playoffs?


It's not like Rose wasn't completely worn out caryring the team the entire playoffs (after hurting his ankle in the 1st round no less) ... while their supposed 2nd best player (Boozer) was completely non-existstent. Kid was running on empty. 

Then he had 6'8 LeBron James a very versatile defender on his case (who didn't have to carry such an offensive load like Rose), with help defense from Dwyane Wade, Mario Chalmers, and nice interior defense with Joel Anthony and Udonis Haslem, who could key in on Rose's penetration seeing as how Boozer and Noah were NON FACTORS. I would NEVER act like in context that was purely LeBron James putting the clamps on Derrick Rose.

Because where was that defense when the team D couldn't help out on Jason Terry, when they were busy being worried about Dirk Nowitzki? Jason Terry ended up LIGHTING up LeBron, and was basically (along w/ Tyson Chandler's defense) the reason the Mavericks ended up beating the Heat. Where was that man defense from LeBron James then?

Bulls had NO ONE to create offense besides Rose. The kid was worn out, and had a team defense ready to stop the Bulls only legit offensive option. Remember, last year Rose was essentially playing BOTH guard spots for the Bulls.

Using that logic, 80 year old Jason Kidd put a STRAIGHT JACKET on the back to back MVP winner and best player in the league, right?

Why ignore the facts?

Edit: Why am I arguing? This kid is 17, and era growing up with LeBron as his hero and his generation's best player, he wouldn't know the truth if it smacked him upside the head.


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

Rose did not carry the Bulls anywhere in the playoffs. He played poorly in the entire playoffs. Boozer is a pick and roll player who always looked real good with Deron and does not look good with Rose. It is not a coincidence.


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

Wait...so Rose gets a pass for carrying the Bulls but LeBron is a quitter because he doesnt have a title?

Thank you OP! Have a nice day!


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## Samurai Swish (Feb 3, 2012)

Diable said:


> Rose did not carry the Bulls anywhere in the playoffs.





Diable said:


> He played poorly in the entire playoffs.


v.s. Indiana: 28 ppg, 6 apg, 5 rpg
v.s. Atlanta: 30 ppg, 10 apg, 4 rpg

Accumlative playoff stats for D. Rose: 27 ppg, 8 apg, 4 rpg (that's after, as we all know a difficult Heat series, where he played poorly after having 2 of the top permiter defenders running at him on every possession)

FG % and offensive effeciency is thrown out the window w/ CONTEXT when you understand he was playing both PG and SG for the Bulls.

Boozer Playoff Stats: 13 ppg, 10 rpg, 2 apg

That's like 7 - 9 points shy of what he SHOULD be producing for you.

Yet Rose played "poorly" and Boozer gets an excuse from you? Ummm, ok.



Diable said:


> Boozer is a pick and roll player who always looked real good with Deron


Yes, that was also two or three years prior.

He played horrorificly the ENTIRE season, including coming up just as bad in the playoffs. It's why they looked better with hustle dork, Gibson on the floor. Boozer gave us no offense, and without that offense to cover up his glaring inadaquacies on defense. He's not even worth being on the floor.

So, in essence to you Boozer gets a pass, and the kid who wins MVP as a 22 year old and clearly the team's best player and only LEGIT offensive weapon played "poorly"? Compared to the season playoff vet?

If Carlos Boozer is ONLY effective in a pick and roll situation, well then he's not all that great to begin with. That would make him a product of a system, now wouldn't it?


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## Samurai Swish (Feb 3, 2012)

MemphisX said:


> Wait...so Rose gets a pass for carrying the Bulls but LeBron is a quitter because he doesnt have a title?
> 
> Thank you OP! Have a nice day!


Rose does get a pass. He's 22. I gave LeBron a pass at the same age for his atrocious showing in the 2007 Finals. That's why I didn't even bring it up. He was the Cavs only legit option in 2007, and the Spurs keyed in on him and him alone, much the way the Heat did Rose in the ECF. Is that me not being "fair" to LeBron? Am I "hating" on him? No. I have been more than fair and forgiving of LeBron. From the 2010 Celtics series (game 4) and on ... he's been absolutely pathetic.

LeBron is in his absolute prime, a seasoned vet, Derrick Rose was in his 3rd season. LeBron won back to back MVPs, then switched teams and is now playing with talent on the Heat that dwarfs ANY supporting cast I've seen from a superstar since I started watching basketball in 1990.

LeBron no longer gets any passes. The fact you find their situation remotely comprable shows your a) immaturity, b) lack of knowledge, and c) lebron agenda homerism.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

Jamel Irief said:


> Lebron didn't win 60 games with Christian eyenga, samardo Samuels and Ryan hollins starting.


As those three guys started about 40-45 games between them neither did the 2011 Cavs. Jamison, Hickson, Mo Williams, etc. were all still there. Only now without a teammate to draw constant double and triple teams they sucked.



Jamel Irief said:


> And varejao, who was out for the year. It would of been like last years lakers losing Kobe, Bynum, odom and artest.


This may be one of the stupidest things you've ever said, and that's saying a lot. Anyone comparing Delonte West to any of those players has officially jumped the shark as a poster. And if Sideshow Bob's absence had had any tangible effect you might have a point, except that their winning percentage was essentially the same with him as without (8-33 with and 11-30 without). Why? Because he's just a roleplayer.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Samurai Swish said:


> Rose does get a pass. He's 22. I gave LeBron a pass at the same age for his atrocious showing in the 2007 Finals. That's why I didn't even bring it up. He was the Cavs only legit option in 2007, and the Spurs keyed in on him and him alone, much the way the Heat did Rose in the ECF. Is that me not being "fair" to LeBron? Am I "hating" on him? No. I have been more than fair and forgiving of LeBron. From the 2010 Celtics series (game 4) and on ... he's been absolutely pathetic.
> 
> LeBron is in his absolute prime, a seasoned vet, Derrick Rose was in his 3rd season. LeBron won back to back MVPs, then switched teams and is now playing with talent on the Heat that dwarfs ANY supporting cast I've seen from a superstar since I started watching basketball in 1990.
> 
> LeBron no longer gets any passes. The fact you find their situation remotely comprable shows your a) immaturity, b) lack of knowledge, and c) lebron agenda homerism.


I'm no Lebron fan, but I respect him as one of, if not the top player in the game. I also think sooner or later (probably this year or next) he'll play like he should/can in the playoffs and win his first title. 

You seem like you're writing Lebron off as a loser at this point, which is way over the top.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

E.H. Munro said:


> As those three guys started about 40-45 games between them neither did the 2011 Cavs. Jamison, Hickson, Mo Williams, etc. were all still there. Only now without a teammate to draw constant double and triple teams they sucked.
> 
> 
> 
> This may be one of the stupidest things you've ever said, and that's saying a lot. Anyone comparing Delonte West to any of those players has officially jumped the shark as a poster. And if Sideshow Bob's absence had had any tangible effect you might have a point, except that their winning percentage was essentially the same with him as without (8-33 with and 11-30 without). Why? Because he's just a roleplayer.


You know, it might be worthwhile to show your quotes in this thread, and your quotes on how important Shaq was to the Celtics last year.


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## Samurai Swish (Feb 3, 2012)

R-Star said:


> You seem like you're writing Lebron off as a loser at this point, which is way over the top.


I'm not saying LeBron can't change his perception, especially from my perspective. As I told you, I was a believer. Especially in his AMAZING 2009 Playoffs, and STUNNING Game 3 victory in Boston in 2010, w/ his 21 1st quarter points.

As of right now he's a loser. I will be more than willing to eat my words if he somehow comes through in legendary fashion, akin to say Jordan in the playoffs and more importantly now, the Finals.

But until then, I just see him as a coward, and a loser. Where from my posts do you get the notion that I don't consider LeBron an incredible talent? Where did I say I didn't find him to be the league's best talent? 

The reason I'm even talking about him is because of his abilities, and potential. The fact he has superior talent both in himself, and w/ him on his team, and he continues to fail ... makes his failures all the more larger and "over the top". He does it to himself. Until he proves otherwise, until he shows mental toughness and heart, I don't respect him.

Pretty sure you were in agreement the first 6 pages of this thread, you just did a really cool Jekyl and Hyde thing just now.

:whofarted

All I'm syaing is LeBron just doesn't get any more free passes or excuses. The table and food is laid out for him. He has to eat.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

R-Star said:


> Losing their best player kind of didn't help their record either.
> 
> I like how in your comparison, the team shouldn't miss a beat when Lebron left.


You have my argument completely backwards. Last year when you, Dre, and others were saying the Cavs were going to contend for a playoff spot I said that they were a horrific team that would be lucky to win 20 games. Because outside LeBron they were just a collection of roleplayers of varying quality. No good NBA starters, just run of the mill guys that were going to suck once opponents were able to defend them because they didn't have to defend LeBron anymore. 

The Cavs were essentially the Cleveland LeBrons, and once he was gone they were dead in the water. If there's a mistake their front office made it was holding on to their roleplayers too long, they should have cleared them out immediately after James left, when they would have had considerably more trade value.


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

Samurai Swish said:


> Rose does get a pass. He's 22. I gave LeBron a pass at the same age for his atrocious showing in the 2007 Finals. That's why I didn't even bring it up. He was the Cavs only legit option in 2007, and the Spurs keyed in on him and him alone, much the way the Heat did Rose in the ECF. Is that me not being "fair" to LeBron? Am I "hating" on him? No. I have been more than fair and forgiving of LeBron. From the 2010 Celtics series (game 4) and on ... he's been absolutely pathetic.
> 
> LeBron is in his absolute prime, a seasoned vet, Derrick Rose was in his 3rd season. LeBron won back to back MVPs, then switched teams and is now playing with talent on the Heat that dwarfs ANY supporting cast I've seen from a superstar since I started watching basketball in 1990.
> 
> LeBron no longer gets any passes. The fact you find their situation remotely comprable shows your a) immaturity, b) lack of knowledge, and c) lebron agenda homerism.



:2ti:

I am pretty sure at this point you are cutting and pasting your posts from somewhere.

I am not a LeBron homer and you are the only person in this thread with an agenda. 

Hey, in your world LeBron is a coward and a loser. You keep writing essays about it.



P.S. MJ was a seasoned vet who had never made it to the finals at this point. Was he a loser also? Or shall I assume that unless you follow LeBron's track exactly, there are excuses that make you a non-loser.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

E.H. Munro said:


> You have my argument completely backwards. Last year when you, Dre, and others were saying the Cavs were going to contend for a playoff spot I said that they were a horrific team that would be lucky to win 20 games. Because outside LeBron they were just a collection of roleplayers of varying quality. No good NBA starters, just run of the mill guys that were going to suck once opponents were able to defend them because they didn't have to defend LeBron anymore.
> 
> The Cavs were essentially the Cleveland LeBrons, and once he was gone they were dead in the water. If there's a mistake their front office made it was holding on to their roleplayers too long, they should have cleared them out immediately after James left, when they would have had considerably more trade value.


I don't think I ever argued they'd make the playoffs, although I agree they did do worse than I thought they would. And yea, they should have traded anyone with value, but the problem is the team was built with aged veterans who weren't worth much on the market. No teams were going to give up good young talent for Jamison or the other old balls on the team. And the young players on the team were pouting and acting pathetic to the point that they joked and laughed with Lebron on the sidelines while the Heat were busy destroying their team.

They're on the right track now. It will be a long time before they're a playoff threat again, but they have decent building blocks. About all you can ask for after the best player in the league leaves your team.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Samurai Swish said:


> I'm not saying LeBron can't change his perception, especially from my perspective. As I told you, I was a believer. Especially in his AMAZING 2009 Playoffs, and STUNNING Game 3 victory in Boston in 2010, w/ his 21 1st quarter points.
> 
> As of right now he's a loser. I will be more than willing to eat my words if he somehow comes through in legendary fashion, akin to say Jordan in the playoffs and more importantly now, the Finals.
> 
> ...


I agree he shouldn't get a free pass. The only people I argue with here are the ones who act like nothing Lebron does is bad, and have excuses for everything.

Lebron is all you've posted on though, and you seem to have an agenda. You hate the guy, that much is clear, but there's a ton of other players in the game to focus on instead of just sitting there hating James.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

MemphisX said:


> Ahhh, sometimes people just look stupid when they nitpick the guy who is currently crushing the entire league going on about 5 of the last 6 seasons. And yes, if we had this much media 25 years ago, you would be killing MJ for being a loser for not being able to get past Boston and Detroit. It is a baseless argument until you dismiss all the facts that dump on it.
> 
> Are Durant and Rose scared losers because they haven't been in the dunk contest or won a title yet either? But I am guessing they can still be great winners even though neither of them have won jack shit since HS either.


At the end of Jordan's 9th season he was celebrating his 3rd straight title and retired being considered the greatest. Oh and even when he was losing he was doing it while putting up 63 points.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

E.H. Munro said:


> As those three guys started about 40-45 games between them neither did the 2011 Cavs. Jamison, Hickson, Mo Williams, etc. were all still there. Only now without a teammate to draw constant double and triple teams they sucked.


Lebron, Jamison, Hickson and Mo Williams alone won't win you 60 games. Agreed?



> This may be one of the stupidest things you've ever said, and that's saying a lot. Anyone comparing Delonte West to any of those players has officially jumped the shark as a poster. And if Sideshow Bob's absence had had any tangible effect you might have a point, except that their winning percentage was essentially the same with him as without (8-33 with and 11-30 without). Why? Because he's just a roleplayer.


Look, save the insults, fat ass before you get worked up and have an asthma attack. I'm not R-star.

West was Artest in my comparison, the trio of Shaq-Z-Varejaon were Bynum and Odom. Was I comparing them in terms of skill level or impact/importance? You decide.

Anyways here were the Cavs leaders in games started last year-

Hickson- 66
Parker- 65
Sessions- 38
Jamison- 38
Williams- 34
Varejao- 31
Gee- 29
Eyenga- 18
Hollins- 16
Harris-15
Moon- 13
Samuels- 10

They had over 20 different starting line-ups, and suffered injuries to their best scorere (Jamison- 30 games) and defender (Varejao- 50 games). No lineup started together for more than 19 games.

Now in Lebron's last year-

Parker- 81
Hickson- 73
Williams- 68
Shaq- 53
Jamison- 23
Gibson- 10

That team had a lineup (Williams-Parker-James-Hickson-Shaq) that started 52 games together. More stability, less injuries, different players. Not apples to apples.


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## Samurai Swish (Feb 3, 2012)

MemphisX said:


> P.S. MJ was a seasoned vet who had never made it to the finals at this point.


How awkwardly un-knowledgable are you, kiddo?

By this point 9 years deep in the NBA, as LeBron is currently in his 9th NBA season.

MJ had 3x MVPs, 2 Finals MVPs, 2 Rings w/ legendary playoff and Finals performance and working on the first three-peat in DECADES.

LeBron has 2x MVPs, 0 - 2 in the NBA Finals, the last embarrassing loss coming with the most talented cast since the 80's Showtime Lakers and 80's Bird / McHale Celtics. 

No comparison need be made. LeBron has choked, failed, and quit with favorited teams. MJ was about to win his 3rd ring, 3rd Finals MVP and then retire for essentially two season in his absolute PRIME.


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

Samurai Swish said:


> How awkwardly un-knowledgable are you, kiddo?
> 
> By this point 9 years deep in the NBA, as LeBron is currently in his 9th NBA season.
> 
> ...


Now do all that based on age and test your knowledge...


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

How were the 2011 Heat more talented than any team that has won the title since Magic? Dallas was a better team than Miami last year and Dirk was playing out of his mind too. It is utterly moronic to act as though Dallas deserves no credit for winning that championship.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Diable said:


> How were the 2011 Heat more talented than any team that has won the title since Magic? Dallas was a better team than Miami last year and Dirk was playing out of his mind too. It is utterly moronic to act as though Dallas deserves no credit for winning that championship.


Feel free to quote where you predicted Dallas to win the title last year. Hell, post a pre playoffs post where you said they were the best team in the league while you're at it.


The Heat were crammed down everyones throats as a dynasty before they hit the floor. To all of the sudden downplay that and talk about how amazing Dallas was is laughable. 

Anyone who picked Dallas to win on here was viewed as either a diehard Dallas fan, or Heat hater in the inital game thread.


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

I picked the Mavs to win that series and so did a lot of other people. Probably more than half of the people here. I never expected Miami to make the Finals. They had no bench, no point guard and no shooting. 

You can feel free to look it all up since it is so important to you.


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## Samurai Swish (Feb 3, 2012)

MemphisX said:


> Now do all that based on age and test your knowledge...


Age makes no difference. LeBron chose to go pro thus getting more professional experience quicker.

You don't go by age, you go by years played IN the actual basketball association. Is this now the built in excuse for players that chose to come out early?

It's not like he rode the pine for years before becoming a starter. The team was LeBron's from his 1st NBA game.

You don't get to have your cake and eat it too. It's a loser's defense mechanism. You can't say "oh this is amazing because he's only 20 something years old" and then when he fails at something say "oh well so and so hadn't accomplished this much by this age." Doesn't work like that, son.

I find it troubling that you can't simply say, yes the dude has failed a few times. It's embarrassing, I hope he uses it as fuel and proves you and others wrong.

THAT is the attitude he needs to have. Everyone fails, it's HOW you fail, and what you do with the experience of it.

Seems like LeBron, and his stans take failures and criticism the same way. Deflect, protect the ego, rely on things that can't be measured as true success:

"Check my stats."

"Well to people rooting for me to fail, they will wake up tomorrow with the same issues and problems."

Grow a set, cowards. Accept accountability, and be better. You and LeBron react to criticism like a small child.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Diable said:


> I picked the Mavs to win that series and so did a lot of other people. Probably more than half of the people here. I never expected Miami to make the Finals. They had no bench, no point guard and no shooting.
> 
> You can feel free to look it all up since it is so important to you.


Since it is so important to me? Nice attempt.

You're trying to paint last year as the Mavs being some sort of all time great, and Miami being the underdog facing them. Not the case what so ever.


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## Samurai Swish (Feb 3, 2012)

Diable said:


> I picked the Mavs to win that series and so did a lot of other people. Probably more than half of the people here.


Yea, but most people here clearly don't know what they're talking about, if we're being brutally honest. An overwhelming amount of experts picked the Heat to win. And no, it's not like the Mavericks didn't do what they had to in order to win. But it was clearly the Heat blundering mentally, specifically one LeBron James.

How can you not conceed this reality?

Sure Chandler's defense was impressive. Sure Nowitzki had a monster 2nd half of game 6. Sure Jason Terry tore LeBron's defense to shreds with his pull up jumper, and sure Marion and Kidd took turns putting LeBron in a straight jacket.

They took advantage of what was presented them. The Heat, if it weren't for a collapse, should already be sporting rings.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Diable said:


> I picked the Mavs to win that series and so did a lot of other people. Probably more than half of the people here. I never expected Miami to make the Finals. They had no bench, no point guard and no shooting.
> 
> You can feel free to look it all up since it is so important to you.


Oh, and for the record, no, you didn't pick the Mavs, unless it was in your head and you just didn't feel comfortable telling people. 

And as far as the votes? 67-33 for Miami.

The odds going into the playoffs?

*Miami Heat 2.75 to 1*
Los Angeles Lakers 3 to 1
Chicago Bulls 4 to 1
San Antonio Spurs 6 to 1
Boston Celtics 6 to 1
Oklahoma City Thunder 14 to 1
*Dallas Mavericks 16 to 1*
Orlando Magic 18 to 1
New York Knicks 50 to 1
Denver Nuggets 60 to 1
Portland Trail Blazers 60 to 1
Atlanta Hawks 100 to 1
Philadelphia 76ers 150 to 1
Memphis Grizzlies 150 to 1
New Orleans Hornets 200 to 1
Indiana Pacers 200 to 1 


Yep. Keep trying to rewrite the past Diable. Working great for you.


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

R-Star said:


> Oh, and for the record, no, you didn't pick the Mavs, unless it was in your head and you just didn't feel comfortable telling people.


Yeah, i'd like to see a quote frim dude picking the Mavs over the "Dynasty" Heat.


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

Samurai Swish said:


> Age makes no difference. LeBron chose to go pro thus getting more professional experience quicker.
> 
> You don't go by age, you go by years played IN the actual basketball association. Is this now the built in excuse for players that chose to come out early?
> 
> ...



LMAO...when did this become about me? You clearly have a problem. 

See, unlike you, I don't consider making the NBA finals as failure. I don't go with the NBA title or bust theory of success. 

Your standard for comparison is stupid unless you are already considering LeBron a top 5 player of all time. Unlike you, I don't anoint players before they accomplish something, therefore, I don't consider LeBron a failure. There are maybe a handful of players in NBA history who have had a better career start than LeBron.

Oh and yes, age is a suitable comparison. Just because it does not help your insane rant does not mean it should be dismissed.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

MemphisX said:


> Oh and yes, age is a suitable comparison. Just because it does not help your insane rant does not mean it should be dismissed.


It shouldn't be diminished, but 3 years starting 82 games a year in the NBA helps you a lot quicker than playing 3 years in the ACC.


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## Samurai Swish (Feb 3, 2012)

MemphisX said:


> See, unlike you, I don't consider making the NBA finals as failure. I don't go with the NBA title or bust theory of success.


The players do though. You think actual competitors are content with losing, 2nd place and stupid meaningless awards? What do you think these athletes play for?

Why do you think LeBron went to MIA? To have a good time and play with buddy ole pals? He went to MIA because he felt pressure to win not just a championship, but multiple rings. He brought it upon himself. "Not 4, not 5, not 6, not 7 ..." ... all this non-sense makes things even worse in context.

You don't consider it a failure on any level that with that kind of talent supporting him that they didn't win a ring? You don't think it's a failure when LeBron said "it's gonna be easy" and guaranteed multiple rings? Don't you think the Heat organization themselves consider it a failure losing in the Finals? They expected to lose?

You don't think LeBron's performance in the Finals warrants criticism or could be considered a massive "wet the bed" failure?

Really? What do you judge players success and failures on in a team sport? What do you think they judge themselves on? 

LeBron is easily a top five all-time talent. He annointed HIMSELF, as well as the media. Him and his marketing pals marketed LeBron as the 2nd coming. "We are all WITNESS", remember? "Chosen One" on his back since he was 15, remember? oh I forgot you are too young to remember this stuff. "King James"? You must be living under a rock. 

It has nothing to do with annointing anyway, he's had opportuinity to win on multiple occassions and didn't go out failing by TRYING (if he did, we wouldn't be making such a stink) ... it's how he lost. It isn't that he left Cleveland, it's HOW he left Cleveland. It reveals a tremendous lack of character.

You're just too young to understand this so our conversation is pointless, kiddo.


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## BeeGee (Jul 9, 2010)

@ topic: Yeh Lebron's pretty much a frontrunning no masking Yankees, Cowboys.. probably grew up a "diehard" Bulls fan.. probably a Red Wings fan... you know he rolls with Manchester United...Him and the other Nike slave hoes showed up at the Oregon game like fans and jynxed the Ducks into a loss..

So yeh, that's him.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

MemphisX said:


> Dre...like I said. You keep ignoring the playoff series he has won. Did you miss him destroy the best team in the league and shut down the current MVP in the playoffs? Why ignore that fact? That was not 5 years ago since you want to dismiss him destroying one of the best defenses in NBA history with championship experience and getting to the finals.
> 
> I think it is a walk on stupid that will go like this if the Heat win a title: "Well, if LeBron wasn't a choker, the Heat would have two." and on and on just to criticize LeBron.


He did beat the Bulls but that wasn't the Finals. I'm just saying what happened at the end of the road? 

And what you said is true to an extent. I won't be on some 5 titles minus 1 if he wins 4 rings...but I think it's rewriting history to say the consensus was Dallas, or that the Heat weren't soundly defeating us when LeBron was doing his thing.

And if you're not Finals or bust then what are you? Break records or bust?


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

Jamel Irief said:


> Lebron, Jamison, Hickson and Mo Williams alone won't win you 60 games.


They won't even win you 30 which was my point last year when you were equally hostile and equally wrong.



Jamel Irief said:


> Look, save the insults, fat ass before you get worked up and have an asthma attack. I'm not R-star.


My ass might have some fat in it, but at least I don't risk a concussion every time I sit down, unlike many of the posters in this thread. 



Jamel Irief said:


> West was Artest in my comparison, the trio of Shaq-Z-Varejaon were Bynum and Odom.


This doesn't make the statement sound any more intelligent. You were probably better off just slinking out of the room on that one.



Jamel Irief said:


> They had over 20 different starting line-ups


That's pretty much the case with every shitty team in NBA history. They just continue to throw shit against the wall in hopes that they find something that sticks. But despite the "devastating injuries" no matter who was playing they were a consistent .250 team. Why? Because that's pretty much what the surrounding cast was. They were a mediocre collection of roleplayers without someone to carry them anymore.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

PauloCatarino said:


> Yeah, i'd like to see a quote frim dude picking the Mavs over the "Dynasty" Heat.


How'd that "Cleveland's making the playoffs!!!" thing work out for ya?


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

E.H. Munro said:


> How'd that "Cleveland's making the playoffs!!!" thing work out for ya?


Luckily you've never been wrong about anything around here...


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

E.H. Munro said:


> They won't even win you 30 which was my point last year when you were equally hostile and equally wrong.


Uh, better re-read that post again chief. You just said a lineup with Lebron on it won't win you 30 games.



> My ass might have some fat in it, but at least I don't risk a concussion every time I sit down, unlike many of the posters in this thread.


And I'm the one that's hostile? Oh wait you put a ""



> This doesn't make the statement sound any more intelligent. You were probably better off just slinking out of the room on that one.


I forgot how highly value guys like Artest and Bynum. Guys you've mocked for years. But as usual when it's beneficial to your current argument your go back on statements you made in other threads.



> That's pretty much the case with every shitty team in NBA history. They just continue to throw shit against the wall in hopes that they find something that sticks. But despite the "devastating injuries" no matter who was playing they were a consistent .250 team. Why? Because that's pretty much what the surrounding cast was. They were a mediocre collection of roleplayers without someone to carry them anymore.


Their have been plently of shitty teams that had consistent lineups. Look at the Wizards of this season.

When Sessions/Williams, Parker, Jamison and Hickson started together their record was decent. It's a fact that Jamison, Varejao and Williams (arguably the 2010 Cavs 2nd, 3rd and 4th best players) were more injured last year. No amount of mocking or e-sults will change that. 



> How'd that "Cleveland's making the playoffs!!!" thing work out for ya?


How's that "Cleveland's making the playoffs!!!" thing going to work out for you this year?


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

R-Star said:


> Luckily you've never been wrong about anything around here...


Just look at the first sentence of his signature.


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## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

dantheman9758 said:


> :whofarted
> 
> wrong...
> http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/
> ...



Cute manifesto on the evils of the NBA's listed heights. Draftexpress is the same site that I use, and the 6'8" figure I quoted came from a transposition error flipping the with shoes and without shoes in my head. Like Samurai said in their (surprisingly reasonable) response, it's not a huge deal. That being said, I stand by the second half of my original statement, that it's entirely plausible that Lebron grew a half inch to an inch after being drafted and is somewhere between 6'8" and 6'9". Late growth spurts are just something that teenagers do sometimes, it happens. Again, as I said, I don't have any official measurements since 2003, and I highly doubt that you do, either, so there's no way of knowing.


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

Jamel Irief said:


> It shouldn't be diminished, but 3 years starting 82 games a year in the NBA helps you a lot quicker than playing 3 years in the ACC.



That is your opinion. My truth is that 27=27.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

MemphisX said:


> That is your opinion. My truth is that 27=27.


Which is no more valid than "years in the league=years in the league"


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

MemphisX said:


> That is your opinion. My truth is that 27=27.


Right. So a 27 year old rookie that's played in Bulgaira for 10 years should step right in and play to his full potential as well right?

Let's say you have a 27 year old that worked flipping burgers his first 5 years out of high school. He eventually goes to college, graduates, gets an entry level job at IBM. Is he as experienced as the guy who started at IBM at 22 and has been there 5 years?


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

Memphis sometimes you state minority opinions that are just kinda flat out wrong..like this for instance


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## carrrnuttt (Dec 4, 2004)

MemphisX said:


> P.S. MJ was a seasoned vet who had never made it to the finals at this point. Was he a loser also? Or shall I assume that unless you follow LeBron's track exactly, there are excuses that make you a non-loser.


LOL

Let's not even start that debate, because it'll just expose Bron Bron's lack of heart even worse. And as pointed out already, you are completely wrong about your sentence. Try this on for size: http://hoopsapedia.webs.com/lebronvsjordan.htm

Here's some of the most glaring sections of the stats comparisons:



> NBA Finals averages for their careers:
> Jordan: 33.6ppg 6.0reb 5.9ast 48.0%fg 36.8%3pt
> LeBron: 19.5ppg 7.1reb 6.8ast 41.7%fg 27.1%3pt
> 
> ...


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

E.H. Munro said:


> How'd that "Cleveland's making the playoffs!!!" thing work out for ya?


Please quote me on that.


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## Charliethefrug (Feb 7, 2012)

I couldn't read the OP novel because it was just filled with hate.

U mad?


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