# Atlantic Division Champions?



## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

The Sixers are clinging to their 1st place lead by a thread. Marc Jackson is having surgery, Big Dog is on the IL, and Coleman is ailing as well.

It appears that Gilbert Arenas is going to be gone for a while.

The Nets are now 2-6 at home after losing to Memphis tonight.

Boston is struggling without Walker, and just lost to the Raptors.

The Heat are so bad that Wang ZhiZhi has a roster spot.

The Magic have lost 92 consecutive games.

The Knicks are the only team that have something positive going towards them (McDyess' return).

All this said, would it actually surpise anybody if the Knicks got the 2nd seed this year by winning the Atlantic? They are having far fewer problems than the rest of the other teams, and they have done a great job surviving a killer schedule so far.

If this keeps up, I doubt they are going to trade Ward, unless something really good comes along... He's having a career year. I think you can lift the title of "average backup" off of him now.

Then again, seeing as how I'm on a Knick board, you can all life your title of "worst PG in NY history" title off him now. Feel free to jump on the bandwagon at any time.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

i dont think charlie is the worst point guard.in fact hes a very good backup,and a serviceable starter..I can not understand how Eisley starts over ward..

You are dead right..om Paper the Knicks may have the most talent in the East.....Especially if van horn can gety his act together...hes got a very slow game and it hurts the knicks


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## Perennial All Star (Aug 13, 2003)

I'm not removing average player from Charlie Ward.Thats insane.He's no better than average and Eisley is no better than garbage.Frank Williams should be starting.And thats that.


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

Because quite obviously, Frank Williams is so much better than average.


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## Fordy74 (May 22, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Rashidi</b>!
> The Sixers are clinging to their 1st place lead by a thread. Marc Jackson is having surgery, Big Dog is on the IL, and Coleman is ailing as well.
> 
> It appears that Gilbert Arenas is going to be gone for a while.
> ...


I think I was the one with the "worst PG in history" qoute and that was directed at Eisley not Ward. I like Charlie and he is 50 times the player Eisley is.


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## Perennial All Star (Aug 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Rashidi</b>!
> Because quite obviously, Frank Williams is so much better than average.


You finally got something right.He's a little better than average and younger,not an old,overpaid scrub like your 2 buddies Ward and Eisley.I'll give Ward props though,he's playing well but its Frank's time to get a chance.


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

> You finally got something right.He's a little better than average and younger,


When did this transformation happen? Frank Williams is starter quality? Quick, let's all put him on our all-star ballots!

Frank Williams isn't even half as good as Tyronn Lue. Why is it whenever a backup PG shines for ONE moment, people always overhype it to death. It's people like you that are the reason why Anthony Carter, Charlie Ward, Alvin Williams, Chucky Atkins, and Tyronn Lue were able to get big contracts.

And since the Knicks are the most turnover prone team in the league, how is adding their most turnover prone PG to the starting lineup going to help?


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## The True Essence (May 26, 2003)

all the guards turn the ball over. Williams is the best point guard on the team in terms of taking the ball to the basket for a lay in or a dish. Most of Eisley and Wards assists are penetrating 3 feet into the three point line and having someone else chuck a three.

he earned a chance and hes not even getting it.


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## Perennial All Star (Aug 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Rashidi</b>!
> 
> 
> When did this transformation happen? Frank Williams is starter quality? Quick, let's all put him on our all-star ballots!
> ...


You apparently have no NBA knowledge when you encourage the team of Eisley/Ward over Williams/Ward.Furthermore,did I mention all-star?He's the best and youngest point guard on the team and not just because of 1 or 2 games.He has shown he can make the plays when given time.Eisley hasnt.Neither has Ward.YOU can stop acting like Ward is some kind of Kidd and Eisley is his Marbury back-up,thats the end of that.If every game we'll make topics somehow poking fun at Knick fans who hate the players on their team then this board should not exist.If people can't criticize their own players then we shouldnt even be fans.Because this team deserves critisizing anyway.END OF STORY!


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## Dathomieyouhate (Jun 21, 2003)

raptors will run that division next year.


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

> You apparently have no NBA knowledge when you encourage the team of Eisley/Ward over Williams/Ward.



I apparantly have no knowledge? This from the 14 year old who probably hasn't watched the Knicks more than 3 years. 


Howard Eisley
11 points
5-10 FG
10 assists
1 rebound
2 steals
1 turnover
32 minutes

Charlie Ward
4 points
1-4 FG
4 assists
3 rebounds
3 turnovers
16 minutes

Frank Williams
2 points
1-2 FG
0 assists
0 rebounds
3 turnovers
9 minutes

Boy, that Eisley sure does suck. He is only 8th in the league in assists per minute, and only 10th in the league in A/T ratio. Man, I hope he didn't learn such piss-poor ball passing from playing with John Stockton.

Eisley has committed 3 or more turnovers ONLY TWICE this whole season. One of those games was the last one against Seattle, the other was 3 against the Lakers.

It took Frank Williams all of 9 minutes to accumulate 3 turnovers last night.

Howard Eisley has 89 assists and 28 turnovers this season.
Frank Williams has 29 assists and 21 turnovers this season.

And I'M THE ONE without any knowledge? What have the Knicks' problems been this season? *TURNOVERS*. How is inserting the most turnover prone guard on the team into the starting lineup over the PG who takes care of the ball the best going to help things???

Man, how unknowledgable I am.


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## Perennial All Star (Aug 13, 2003)

Oh yes lets judge Eisley by turnovers with only 20 games into the season and lets just continue to diss frank williams while were at it.Who is the better all around player here?Frank Williams.I've wtached the Knicks for 6 years now and I know all their history.Age doesn't mean anything you ****in loser.You wnna get personal and talk about age,anyone,and I mean ANYONE who believs Howard Eisley is good is the biggest ****in retard ever.Got it?Now go lick Eisley's *** some more and leave me alone,topic and conversation:OVER!


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

> Oh yes lets judge Eisley by turnovers with only 20 games into the season and lets just continue to diss frank williams while were at it.Who is the better all around player here?Frank Williams.I've wtached the Knicks for 6 years now and I know all their history.Age doesn't mean anything you ****in loser.You wnna get personal and talk about age,anyone,and I mean ANYONE who believs Howard Eisley is good is the biggest ****in retard ever.Got it?Now go lick Eisley's *** some more and leave me alone,topic and conversation:OVER!


:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: 

Oh man... that was funny...

Since you claim to be a 6 year Knick fan, let's take a look at Eisley's turnover track record the last 6 years. Since you are crying and whining about the season being "only 20 games old". As if his ability has suddenly diminished in the past 6 years. He has been one of the leaders in A/T ratio for the past couple of seasons.

03-04
89 assists, 28 turnovers
4.5 apg, 1.4 tpg

02-03
477 assists, 149 turnovers
5.4 apg, 1.8 tpg

01-02
100 assists, 53 turnovers
2.6 apg, 1.4 tpg

00-01
295 assists, 102 turnovers
3.6 apg, 1.2 tpg

99-00
347 assists, 142 turnovers
4.2 apg, 1.6 tpg

98-99
185 assists, 109 turnovers
3.7 apg, 2.2 tpg

97-98
346 assists, 160 turnovers
4.2 apg, 2.0 tpg

Eisley's career
2,245 assists, 970 turnovers
3.5 apg, 1.5 tpg

Frank's career
63 assists, 38 turnovers
1.5 apg, 0.9 apg

Frank Williams is averaging 1.5 assists with 1.1 turnovers per game this year in only 12 minutes per game. What an astonishing ratio. Add in his poor FG% (.342) and his crap 3pt% (.217) and boy oh boy, do we have a starter in the making.

What do you base your Frank Williams fanboyism on? Did you even WATCH HIM in college? What a joke your arguement is. You don't even KNOW the player you are arguing over.

*Frank Williams WAS NOT A DISTRIBUTOR in college.* He was a shoot first PG. 

And what do you know. All those "promising games" Williams has with the Knicks, what is he doing? He's SCORING. Not passing. *SCORING.*

He turns the ball over quite often, and if the Knicks are leading the league in turnovers WHILE STARTING a PG with one of the best A/T ratios in the league, then how is a PG that would have one of the WORST A/T ratios in the league if he started going to help things?

All you said in your lame response was F-You. Blah blah blah. Frank Williams is better all around. You are retarded. Blah blah blah.

UNFORTUNATELY, the Knicks don't need an "all-around better player". They need somebody that can TAKE CARE OF THE BASKETBALL. And Frank Williams is not the man for that job. He provides the exact opposite of what the Knicks need.

I find it absoultely LUDICROUS that somebody could be so high on such an inconsistent player. Williams has not shown he is capable of starting in this league. For the Knicks, or for ANY team. He is a 3rd string on most teams. Maybe in the future he'll be good, but right now, he is most DEFINITELY not starter quality.

Jason Terry
Mike James
Jamal Crawford
Lebron James
Steve Nash
Andre Miller
Chauncey Billups
Nick Van Exel
Steve Francis
Kenny Anderson
Keyon Dooling
Gary Payton
Jason Williams
Dwyane Wade
TJ Ford
Sam Cassell
Jason Kidd
Baron Davis
Tyronn Lue
Eric Snow
Stephon Marbury
Mike Bibby
Tony Parker
Brent Barry
Jalen Rose
Carlos Arroyo
Gilbert Arenas

To say that Frank Williams belongs in this group anymore than Howard Eisley does would be the funniest thing I've heard all day, even funnier than your attempt at flaming.


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## Perennial All Star (Aug 13, 2003)

I have nothing left to say to you, your praising of Eisley is ridiculous.


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

> I have nothing left to say to you, your praising of Eisley is ridiculous.


Likewise for your praise of Frank Williams. I have not praised Eisley, I have unbiasedly told it how it is. You are the one who is unwilling to accept the strongpoints of a player you dislike.

Oh btw, Eisley had his 2nd consecutive double double last night. He has 20 assists and 2 turnovers in those 2 games.


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## The True Essence (May 26, 2003)

"I find it absoultely LUDICROUS that somebody could be so high on such an inconsistent player."

what about you and the amazing Van horn?

Regardless, Frank should be starting. Mike Breen has said, we all want it, so why not give him a shot? Rather than having eisley dribbling for 20 seconds doing nothing at all except wasting possesions we could have him taking the ball to the basket getting easy shots for himself or his teammates. Notice how our team never shoots free throws. Thats because our guards our terrible at penetrating. If Frank could get in the lane, dish to mutombo(or any other big man), and see mutombo go try to lay it in chances are he'll get fouled. But this wont ever happen. We'll have to settle for Mutombo(and the other big men) chucking 15 footers and the guards and wings chucking threes all day. 

I dont see why you defend Chaneys coaching decisions all the time. Hes the only idiot who benched Mutombo when we need him. Matchup problems? make team match up to you dont match up with them. If they go small why the hell shouldnt he play anyway? he'll be rejecting midgets all day. Theres a reason he got player of the week, its because he got the minutes to do so. If you can find more than one win we had where mutombo didnt get serious minutes than ill be quiet, but until then......


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

> what about you and the amazing Van horn?


Van Horn is as consistent (or inconsistent) as Sprewell was last year. Van Horn is a proven player, and is the 2nd best scorer on the team. Frank Williams is far from that. He is not a proven player.



> I dont see why you defend Chaneys coaching decisions all the time.


I don't see why people act like he's the worst coach in NBA history either.



> Hes the only idiot who benched Mutombo when we need him.


Perhaps you should be more specific, since Knick fans basically say this every game that Mutombo doesn't log 35 minutes.



> Matchup problems? make team match up to you dont match up with them. If they go small why the hell shouldnt he play anyway? he'll be rejecting midgets all day.


It's hard to reject somebody that runs faster than you. Mutombo can't guard quicker post players, this was really evident when Chaney decided to shut every body up and throw Mutombo to the wolves (Baker). Thomas is definitely the better defensive player, even if Mutombo is the better shot blocker.

Make a team match up to you? Isn't that what the OTHER team is ALSO trying to do? You can't teach an old dog new tricks. Mutombo can't keep up with quicker guys, this has been well known since he was in Philadelphia. They will play small ball regardless of whether Mutombo is in there or not.

*DIDN'T ANYBODY SEE THE SIXERS WITH MUTOMBO GET RAPED BY BOSTON?* Why do you think Philly was so eager to trade him for Keith Van Turnover, the player you so despise?



> Theres a reason he got player of the week, its because he got the minutes to do so.


And he got those minutes because each team was a good matchup for Mutombo.

*If you can find more than one win we had where mutombo didnt get serious minutes than ill be quiet, but until then......*

Boston: 19 minutes
Orlando: 25 minutes

Did it ever occur that Mutombo would also play more minutes if he stayed out of foul trouble? I'm sure Mutombo getting into early foul trouble has led to a few losses, but has not been touched on as a point by anybody.

Mutombo's foul woes
5 fouls in 22 minutes against Seattle
5 fouls in 30 minutes against Sixers
4 fouls in 23 minutes against Pacers (2nd game)
4 fouls in 16 minutes against Lakers
4 fouls in 19 minutes against Boston (1st game)
3 fouls in 15 minutes against Milwuakee (1st game, the one where people whined about Mutombo getting taken out, he left the game towards the end of the 2nd due to foul trouble, that's when the Bucks made their comeback.)

He has gotten less PT since Player of the Week mainly because of McDyess' return. But I'd think you should be happy with Mutombo playing 5 fewer minutes if it means you don't have to look at Spoon or Harrington during the game.

Why did Mutombo sit against Portland? He was a non-factor the whole time he was in there. 0 blocks in 18 minutes. He can't guard Randolph or Wallace man to man, hence he isn't required. I find it very hard to argue with Chaney's logic to sit him either, as McDyess played a GREAT game, and Doleac also played well.

Know why Mutombo sat against the Warriors? He grabbed 1 rebound in 21 minutes, and blocked 0 shots. What a factor he was. He did shoot 4-5, but it's not like the rest of the team didn't shoot well either. The Knicks needed rebounding, and they weren't getting it because Mutombo was getting beaten to them by the QUICKER Brian Cardinal. In comparison, Erick Dampier managed 6 rebonds in 25 minutes.

And in case you've forgotten, there was a certain Power Forward that was able to beat the Knicks in a crucial game by grabbing a rebound over Mutombo and putting it back in.


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

And also, Van Horn is only 17th in the league in turnovers per minute. The players ahead of him are

1. Paul Pierce
2. Chris Kaman
3. Gilbert Arenas
4. Raul Lopez
5. Earl Watson
6. Steve Nash
7. Marcus Banks
8. Vlade Divac
9. Allen Iverson
9. Lamar Odom
*11. Charlie Ward*
12. Steve Francis
13. Corliss Williamson
14. LeBron James
15. Malik Rose
16. T.J. Ford
*17. Keith Van Horn*

Note that Charlie Ward is the most turnover prone Knick, not Keith Van Horn.

Hah, that's interesting. Let's scroll down the list a bit.

18. Dwyane Wade
19. Tim Duncan
*19. Frank Williams*

Gee, fancy meeting you here Frankie. Can't wait for you to start. That should solve the turnover problem.


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## Perennial All Star (Aug 13, 2003)

> Gee, fancy meeting you here Frankie. Can't wait for you to start. That should solve the turnover problem.


Howard Eisley=Garbage.

No matter what he does or even if he scores 50, to me, and to many people, he is all tha is wrong with the New York Knicks.Merry Christmas....


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

Comparing van Horn stats to Sprees only tells half the story..I was a fan of the trade,but its clear that van Horn is missing something and it doesnt necessarily show up in a stat line..His D is terrible and he has not shown to be a game breaker..hes a decent complementary player.In hindsight,I would have not made that trade.it was a personal move by Dolan

As for Cheney,call it bad luck or bad timing,but he is proving to be a very bad coach,if win/lost is how you judge a coach..You would be somewhat delusional to say the Knicks have improved since Van Gundy left..

I personally think you have no choice but to start Frank Williams..Face it,we are a very very average team and thats putting it mildly..We are 7-14,on the fast track to 7-15..Something has to change,and the most glaring weakness is Eisly..He should not be a starter in the NBA..period..


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

> Something has to change,and the most glaring weakness is Eisly..He should not be a starter in the NBA..period..


And my whole point is that Frank Williams is no better than Howard Eisley. Even if Frank Williams starts, the most glaring weakness is STILL the starting PG. Only difference is, we'll have one committing more turnovers and bricking more shots.



> No matter what he does or even if he scores 50, to me, and to many people, he is all tha is wrong with the New York Knicks.Merry Christmas....


I wonder if I was this closed-minded as a child...

Considering Houston scoring 50 changed a lot of people's opinions about him... If you looked at that list of STARTING PGs you'd notice that while Eisley would be the worst PG on the list, your lover Frankie would be too. Clearly starting a different mediocre PG is not going to solve anything, regardless of how young he may be. I don't see Boston starting Marcus Banks, do you?

Howard Eisley may not be the answer, but don't kid yourself into thinking Frank Williams is the answer either. The Knicks don't have an answer right now, so trying to force one isn't going to improve the situation - if anything, forcing it would probably make it worse.


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## Perennial All Star (Aug 13, 2003)

> I wonder if I was this closed-minded as a child...
> 
> I wonder if I was this closed-minded as a child...
> 
> ...


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## Northpole (Aug 31, 2003)

I agree that Frank isn't capable of starting and that Eisley when he tries can be solid. I've always thought point guard play is been bad, whether it be the starter or the backup(s).

One of the problems with turnovers this teams has is its point guards unable to create for others. Houston ,usually in the fourth when the pressure is on, has to create for himself and Van Horn.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

i have to agree with NYfan...Something needs to change for the Knicks...we are 7-14 and the slope is down not up..True Dyss is coming back and Van horn has been hurt along with houston,but this point guard situation is a mess..First we start ward,then Eisly and i am not sure there is a method to the madness....How much worse could it get if we gave Williams a shot???He really is the only PG who penetrates and breaks down the D..Lets see what he has....its not like we are playing well with Eisly....

Face it guys,a quarter of the season is gone and its enough time to know that changes have to be made


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

Eisley is now 4th in the league in assists per minute.
Eisley is now 6th in the league A/T ratio.

The Knicks are 2-6 with Ward starting.

The Knicks are 5-9 with Eisley starting. This includes games where Van Horn or (and) Houston were injured and did not play.

And again, I bring up the tough schedule the Knicks have faced so far. How many cupcake teams have the Knicks faced so far? Detroit and Indiana twice. Tomorrow, they'll have played the Lakers twice. Better western teams (San Antonio, Minnesota, Portland, Seattle, Golden State) on the road, and have had to live with McDyess making many mistakes the last week as he works his way back into form.

The Knicks are not nearly in the dire straights their overdramatic fans would like to believe. Despite the losing streak, the Knicks are STILL in 10th place. They have not lost any ground.

NY is 4-6 in it's last 10 games.
Atlanta is 3-7.
Miami is 3-7.
Cleveland is 2-8.
Chicago is 1-9.
Orlando is 0-10 (though I do hear that they actually won tonight)

Those are all the teams behind NY. NY isn't going to get much worse than 10th place. They can only go up. Although it will probably have to wait. They still have a road game against the Lakers, a road game against Utah, and then come home to Denver.

Check back on these dates, the dates the Knicks actually play teams that aren't superior.
12/14: Washington
12/20: Atlanta
12/27: Miami
12/29: Orlando
12/30: Miami
1/2: Chicago


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## The True Essence (May 26, 2003)

the schedule doesnt look that tough, but we have the lakers tomorow. Eisleys assist to turnover ratio shouldnt matter. He wastes entire possesions by dribbling to nowhere,which is why he doesnt really turn the ball over. He just passes to someone late in the shot clock and lets them get the turnover. Obviously this isnt in the numbers. Theres just not enough ball movement when hes in the game. and if you love going 5-9 then so be it. we wont make teh playoffs that way, regardless of how crappy the atlantic is,because the central division will take basically all the playoffs spots besides the second.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

true...eislys assist to turnover ratio should be high since he cant or wont break down the D...

the knicks are 7-14...isnt the object of the game to win???"

"you play the game to win"


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

Exactly. They are playing to win. That's why Eisley is starting, and Williams is not. Do you think the Knicks would be better than 7-15 with Williams starting? In all likelyhood they'd be 5-17 or worse.


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## Perennial All Star (Aug 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Rashidi</b>!
> Exactly. They are playing to win. That's why Eisley is starting, and Williams is not. Do you think the Knicks would be better than 7-15 with Williams starting? In all likelyhood they'd be 5-17 or worse.


That is the lamest quote ever....how does eisley win games?Gimme a break you Eisley mark....


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## The True Essence (May 26, 2003)

back to dikembe- mutombo is our only real defensive presence down low. Now that chaney announced to the world that he'll take him out if you go small, this will happen continually(and already has). to quote chaney "he couldnt guard anybody out there!" Well the reason we got him is to be that defensive presence, hes supposed to be a good HELP defender, coming around to block shots when another player gets beat. Taking out mutombo basically means the opposing team will get way too many easy buckets, regardless is mutombo is doing anything or not, its just his presence that would make guards shoot a 3 rather than take it to the basket. Does he realize that the NBA now allows zone defenses? Mutombo would be great as a help defender in a zone, and he wont have to worry about a smaller player beating him off the dribble. 

when you look at the knicks record and the numbers, we win when mutombo has good games, and i dont really mean offensively. we've only won 2 games where mutombo didnt get major minutes, which obviously shows how flawed chaneys coaching system is. Especially when this team has talent, Dolan said it himself, he gave Chaney the players that can win games, and yes they CAN win believe it or not, its just someone doesnt know how to lead them.

again, why dont the pistons bench wallace when hes matched up against quicker players? Same when i was talking about shaq, watever. Its ridiculous to think a coach would bench one of his better players because of matchup problems. of course this isnt the same mutombo from a few years back, but hes still a force, but when we actually have something good we dont use it.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Rashidi</b>!
> *19. Frank Williams*
> 
> Gee, fancy meeting you here Frankie. Can't wait for you to start. That should solve the turnover problem.


Well not to get into yall arguement. But yeah I mean the more time you get, the more comfortable you get, you learn the players and the defenses by being out there and it turn he would be able to protect the ball better by getting used to the flow of the game and the defensive systems of other teams. So I cant agree with your post


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

> Now that chaney announced to the world that he'll take him out if you go small, this will happen continually(and already has).


It happened BEFORE NY! It has been well known that Dikembe can't keep up, ever since Boston annihilated Philadelphia! Chaney's announcement was yesterday's news, teams were already playing small against Dikembe.




> to quote chaney "he couldnt guard anybody out there!" Well the reason we got him is to be that defensive presence, hes supposed to be a good HELP defender, coming around to block shots when another player gets beat.


But who is supposed to block shots when DIKEMBE gets beat?



> when you look at the knicks record and the numbers, we win when mutombo has good games, and i dont really mean offensively. we've only won 2 games where mutombo didnt get major minutes, which obviously shows how flawed chaneys coaching system is.


It also means that Dikembe gets into a lot of foul trouble that leads to him sitting on the bench in the first place. I also hope you're not saying that you want Mutombo to play 40 minutes per night, because he likely cannot physically handle that. Because he can't have big minutes every night.




> Especially when this team has talent, Dolan said it himself, he gave Chaney the players that can win games, and yes they CAN win believe it or not, its just someone doesnt know how to lead them.


Then he'll be gone after the season, when all those fired coaches are made available. Layden has a bigger hard-on for Rivers than for Chaney, and there are a few other names out the Knicks would look at.



> again, why dont the pistons bench wallace when hes matched up against quicker players?


WHAT??????????? Do you even KNOW who Ben Wallace is???

Ben Wallace is a quick and athletic power forward. Dikembe is now a slow plodding center.



> Same when i was talking about shaq, watever. Its ridiculous to think a coach would bench one of his better players because of matchup problems.


Why not? Happens all the time.

DIKEMBE MUTOMBO IS NOT AN ALL-STAR ANYMORE.

SHAQ STILL IS.

End of comparison.

It's hilarious. I think all the people that hated Ewing at 37 are now loving Mutombo at 37.

Nor can I believe that Mutombo's ability and importance at 37 is being compared to Shaq at 31 or Big Ben at 29.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

*the truth is*

as i told you all along,this team MUST rebuild..These arguements are ridiculous....Take a look at the Knicks record...IT STINKS,and its even worse than that considering how much we spend...

What are we talking about here???benching Deke and starting Doleac??Does it make a difference??

Eisly?Ward? Williams???Does it make a difference????

As good as this team looks on paper,it looks that bad on the court..


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## Richie Rich (May 23, 2003)

Back to the topic @ hand: I feel the Knicks cannot win the Atlantic. No, not b/c I am a CeLtics fan, b/c on ESPN the other nite Tim Legler made some great points and I have one or so to add:
1) Mutombo won't be able to go to the fountain of youth all year
2) Houston is hobbling
3) McDyess still hasn't proven he can last a whole year
4) Van Horn chokes in crunch time
5) That leaves Kurt Thomas who is a great 10 and 10 guy, but not a star.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

Rashidi you never responded to my post


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

> 4) Van Horn chokes in crunch time


As a Celtic fan, I am sure you are just bitter about the (un-clutch)daggers KVH rained on you in the Conference Finals.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Rashidi</b>!
> 
> 
> As a Celtic fan, I am sure you are just bitter about the (un-clutch)daggers KVH rained on you in the Conference Finals.


lol


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