# Bow down to Kobe the bad-***!



## madskillz1_99 (Dec 5, 2004)

Lakers are trudging along, getting ready to lose to the Bobcats, in comes Captain Amazing with a 21 point 4th quarter, he just goes OFF. And hits the game winner with 1 second on the clock. Wow!


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## Brian34Cook (Mar 26, 2003)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*

That was simply amazing :clap:


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## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

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Kobe seems to be getting his clutchness back at the right time. 

Poor Bobcats just can't win close games.


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## Ps!ence_Fiction (Aug 1, 2004)

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clutch again Kobe.....Captain Amazing :laugh:


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## HallOfFamer (May 26, 2003)

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Wow, he simply just tookover offensively, much like the end of the Dallas game. Wow, just WOWW!


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## madskillz1_99 (Dec 5, 2004)

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Seriously though, the man is amazing. You just don't see other NBA players doing this kind of stuff with the same regularity. The Lakers should have lost this game, but Kobe said NO!


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## LuckyAC (Aug 12, 2004)

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They lost, but I hope the Bobcats convinced some that they could beat North Carolina.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

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I don't understand the Bobcats at all. They suck so damn badly. Yet...they don't.


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## Nique21 (Jan 12, 2005)

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I thought this wasnt anything new for Kobe, so why are Laker fans pretending like this is something amazing?


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## Charlotte_______ (May 18, 2003)

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regularity? what are you talking about?


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

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Charlotte_______ said:


> regularity? what are you talking about?


 :boohoo: 


:biggrin:


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## madskillz1_99 (Dec 5, 2004)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*



Nique21 said:


> I thought this wasnt anything new for Kobe, so why are Laker fans pretending like this is something amazing?


Because it IS amazing. Just because he's done it before that doesn't make it any less amazing. Isn't a sunset just as breathtaking the 1000th time you see it as it was the 1st? (wow, that was so poetic)


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## Nique21 (Jan 12, 2005)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*



madskillz1_99 said:


> Seriously though, the man is amazing. You just don't see other NBA players doing this kind of stuff with the same *regularity*. The Lakers should have lost this game, but Kobe said NO!


So, how many clutch shots is that for Kobe this season? 2 out of 9?


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*



Nique21 said:


> I thought this wasnt anything new for Kobe, so why are Laker fans pretending like this is something amazing?


So whenever he doesn't do well in crunch time...haters get to make threads about him and say stuff like, "This guy is a bum! DUURRRRRR!" But whenever he does do well, we can't say anything?

Nice logic buddy! DUURRRRRR!


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## Nique21 (Jan 12, 2005)

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madskillz1_99 said:


> Because it IS amazing. Just because he's done it before that doesn't make it any less amazing. Isn't a sunset just as breathtaking the 1000th time you see it as it was the 1st? (wow, that was so poetic)


I understand you're excited and I'm glad for you, but act like you've been there before...better yet, act like Kobe has been there before. Instead of gloating about every clutch shot he makes when all you hear from Laker fans is how he is the most clutch player in the league, so I don't see the big deal, especially against the Charlotte Bobcats

Congrats to Kobe anyway


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## Blink4 (Jan 17, 2005)

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Amazing performance. kobe is the best player in the league no doubt rite now


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## madskillz1_99 (Dec 5, 2004)

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Charlotte_______ said:


> regularity? what are you talking about?


regularity doesn't mean every game, but Kobe has done stuff like this before, and definitely more than any other star in the game. 

The guy couldn't hit anything for 3.5 quarters, and then BOOM! fire. Most players just don't do stuff like that, it takes a certain greatness, and of course a huge Ego to do that. Someone like 'Bron would probably have just kept passing to Z and McCinnis so that even though he wasn't scoring he could get his assist numbers.... (yeah, I said it!)


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## Nique21 (Jan 12, 2005)

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Damian Necronamous said:


> So whenever he doesn't do well in crunch time...haters get to make threads about him and say stuff like, "This guy is a bum! DUURRRRRR!" But whenever he does do well, we can't say anything?
> 
> Nice logic buddy! DUURRRRRR!


I never said they got to, so don't take it out on me


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## Nique21 (Jan 12, 2005)

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madskillz1_99 said:


> regularity doesn't mean every game, but Kobe has done stuff like this before, and definitely more than any other star in the game.
> 
> The guy couldn't hit anything for 3.5 quarters, and then BOOM! fire. Most players just don't do stuff like that, it takes a certain greatness, and of course a huge Ego to do that. Someone like 'Bron would probably have just kept passing to Z and McCinnis so that even though he wasn't scoring he could get his assist numbers.... (yeah, I said it!)


lol, I think this thread has now entered 20 page zone...


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## BBB (Jan 19, 2005)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*



Nique21 said:


> I thought this wasnt anything new for Kobe, so why are Laker fans pretending like this is something amazing?


It isn't anything new for Kobe, but it is an amazing performance compared to the rest of the league.


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## HallOfFamer (May 26, 2003)

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Nique21 said:


> I understand you're excited and I'm glad for you, but act like you've been there before...better yet, act like Kobe has been there before. Instead of gloating about every clutch shot he makes when all you hear from Laker fans is how he is the most clutch player in the league, so I don't see the big deal, especially against the Charlotte Bobcats
> 
> Congrats to Kobe anyway



Well look @ the other thread right below this titled "KOBE = CLUTCH". I don't see you complaining about the Bibby thread where people were claiming hes clutch, yet you seem to have a problem with this Kobe one. Does it sting that much?


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## madskillz1_99 (Dec 5, 2004)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*



Nique21 said:


> I understand you're excited and I'm glad for you, but act like you've been there before...better yet, act like Kobe has been there before. Instead of gloating about every clutch shot he makes when all you hear from Laker fans is how he is the most clutch player in the league, so I don't see the big deal, especially against the Charlotte Bobcats
> 
> Congrats to Kobe anyway


Dude, get it straight, it's not just the game winner, that was simply the culmination of an insane last 8 or so minutes in which he pumped in 21 points to bring his team back from the dead with there playoff hopes on the line.


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## Nique21 (Jan 12, 2005)

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BBB said:


> It isn't anything new for Kobe, but it is an amazing performance compared to the rest of the league.


"Amazing" performance? This is just a walk in the park for Kobe, quit trying to twist this around


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## Nique21 (Jan 12, 2005)

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HallOfFamer said:


> Well look @ the other thread right below this titled "KOBE = CLUTCH". I don't see you complaining about the Bibby thread where people were claiming hes clutch, yet you seem to have a problem with this Kobe one. Does it sting that much?


Typical Laker fan, happy as can be, yet still loves to act like a cocky dick

Ha, I said **** and dick

Anyway, I don't recall Bibby hitting clutch shots with Regularity, so this does not apply to him. Get it? DURRR


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## DuMa (Dec 25, 2004)

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he got pissed because some no namer named carroll was lighting him up earlier :laugh:


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## Nephets (Jul 15, 2004)

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Mentioning Kobe in a positive way on BBB.net is like going into a police station to kill somebody.


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## HallOfFamer (May 26, 2003)

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Nique21 said:


> Typical Laker fan, happy as can be, yet still loves to act like a cocky dick
> 
> Ha, I said **** and dick
> 
> Anyway, I don't recall Bibby hitting clutch shots with Regularity, so this does not apply to him. Get it? DURRR



Umm, you dont recall Bibby hitting shots with regularity? I guess you dont watch NBA basketball then, or at least the Kings.:laugh:

blah blah blah..Typical Laker fan BS..blah blah blah., Im loving it. Dont counter the argument, but make fun of the poster. :greatjob:


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## Nique21 (Jan 12, 2005)

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HallOfFamer said:


> Umm, you dont recall Bibby hitting shots with regularity? I guess you dont watch NBA basketball then, or at least the Kings.:laugh:
> 
> blah blah blah..Typical Laker fan BS..blah blah blah., Im loving it. Dont counter the argument, but make fun of the poster. :greatjob:


Actually I did counter your argument, right after I dissed you :banana: 

Bibby doesent hit clutch shots with nearly the same "regularity" that Kobe does

Congrats on a TOUGH 1 Point victory over the Bobcats, man I bet you're sweating bullets..? :clown:


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## lakegz (Mar 31, 2004)

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wow, this was just the 2nd sellout all season for the bobcats. They came to see Chucky and he didnt disappoint.


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## HallOfFamer (May 26, 2003)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*



Nique21 said:


> Actually I did counter your argument, right after I dissed you :banana:
> 
> Bibby doesent hit clutch shots with nearly the same "regularity" that Kobe does
> 
> Congrats on a TOUGH 1 Point victory over the Bobcats, man I bet you're sweating bullets..? :clown:



Now you're just backpeddling, first it was Bibby doesnt hit shots with regularity, now you switched it up to "nearly the same regularity that Kobe does.:laugh: 

Also, a win is a win right? No matter how many points we win by, its still 1 more in the W column.


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## Charlotte_______ (May 18, 2003)

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madskillz1_99 said:


> regularity doesn't mean every game, but Kobe has done stuff like this before, and definitely more than any other star in the game.
> 
> The guy couldn't hit anything for 3.5 quarters, and then BOOM! fire. Most players just don't do stuff like that, it takes a certain greatness, and of course a huge Ego to do that. Someone like 'Bron would probably have just kept passing to Z and McCinnis so that even though he wasn't scoring he could get his assist numbers.... (yeah, I said it!)


Most players don't do stuff like that because the coach tells them not to shoot anymore, your losing the game for us. Why is Lebron getting into this conversation? So because he wants to get his team involved, hes looking to pad his stats? Give me a break.


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## DuMa (Dec 25, 2004)

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lakegz said:


> wow, this was just the 2nd sellout all season for the bobcats. They came to see Chucky and he didnt disappoint.


just too bad that he is brevin knight's *****


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## BBB (Jan 19, 2005)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*



Nique21 said:


> "Amazing" performance? This is just a walk in the park for Kobe, quit trying to twist this around


Okay, I'll play along. 

Yes, it's just a walk in the park for Kobe, because we all have such unreal expectations of him, don't we all? 

And yes, it's an amazing performance, not by Kobe's standards, but by the league's standards... Are you happy now?


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## HallOfFamer (May 26, 2003)

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You know if Jordan was still playing in the leauge and he hit a bunch of game winers, Nique21 wouldnt want Bulls fans to start a thread about it. I mean, Jordan does it with such regularity, so why would anyone start a thread about it?


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## Blink4 (Jan 17, 2005)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*



Nique21 said:


> Congrats on a TOUGH 1 Point victory over the Bobcats, man I bet you're sweating bullets..? :clown:


a win is a win.


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## madskillz1_99 (Dec 5, 2004)

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Charlotte_______ said:


> Most players don't do stuff like that because the coach tells them not to shoot anymore, your losing the game for us. Why is Lebron getting into this conversation? So because he wants to get his team involved, hes looking to pad his stats? Give me a break.


"get his team involved"!?!? Whatever, I'd say winning the game is more important. and that's what Kobe did, and that's what MJ used to do. Few players can do it like that.


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## Nique21 (Jan 12, 2005)

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BBB said:


> Okay, I'll play along.
> 
> Yes, it's just a walk in the park for Kobe, because we all have such unreal expectations of him, don't we all?
> 
> And yes, it's an amazing performance, not by Kobe's standards, but by the league's standards... Are you happy now?


Hilarious

Anyway, How does a 32 Point, 9 Assist game this season against the BOBCATS count as "Amazing" for Kobe Bryant? Can someone Please explain that to me..??


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## Nique21 (Jan 12, 2005)

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Blink4 said:


> a win is a win.


I know that and that wasnt my point, my point was how pathetic it is to gloat over a 1-point victory against an expansion team


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## HallOfFamer (May 26, 2003)

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Nique21 said:


> Hilarious
> 
> Anyway, How does a 32 Point, 9 Assist game this season against the BOBCATS count as "Amazing" for Kobe Bryant? Can someone Please explain that to me..??


Umm...maybe pouring in 20 something points in the 4th quarter and almost single handedly bringing back his team is pretty amazing.

Did you watch the game? Seriously, when you quote and reply to me, please tell me if you watched the game. If that wasn't an amazing 4th quarter to you, then I have no idea waht is.


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## madskillz1_99 (Dec 5, 2004)

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Nique21 said:


> Hilarious
> 
> Anyway, How does a 32 Point, 9 Assist game this season against the BOBCATS count as "Amazing" for Kobe Bryant? Can someone Please explain that to me..??


What is wrong with you!?!? It is the fact that he scored 21points in the last 8 minutes!!! Do you not get it!?!?


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## Charlotte_______ (May 18, 2003)

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madskillz1_99 said:


> "get his team involved"!?!? Whatever, I'd say winning the game is more important. and that's what Kobe did, and that's what MJ used to do. Few players can do it like that.


Stop bringing MJ into this. He is not MJ he never will be get over it. Of course wining is more important, and LeBron wants to win games and give his teammates the opprtunity to have some input.


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## HallOfFamer (May 26, 2003)

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madskillz1_99 said:


> What is wrong with you!?!? It is the fact that he scored 21points in the last 8 minutes!!! Do you not get it!?!?


Well this Nique/Jewelz/Chise guy and XericX will always find something wrong with a Kobe performance, no matter how good it is or find somethign wrong with the Lakers. Its nothing new.


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## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

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Kobe was simply spectacular, amazing tonight. Every time I see him do stuff like this it reminds me of MJ. 

I'm in my 30's, I've seen em all do it , MJ, David Thompson, Dr. J, Larry Bird, Magic.Kobe is in their class as far as clutch play is concerned. 

I ain't easily impressed by these young bloods today. But Kobe is MJ like. His awareness of when and how to do stuff is quite stunning. Not alot of players know when to take over a game and know exactly when to take a 3, or to drive the ball. 

He is always aware of the when and how. 

Despite being down in his career for over a year, off the court, emotionally, physically, and in the eyes of the media and fans, he's coming back. 

He's starting to just play. not talk, just play and play hard. 

He is incredible.


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## LJD (Nov 27, 2004)

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Nique21:It's not the game that was amazing, it was his last 8 minutes. It doesn't matter what team you're playing against, 21 points in 8 minutes is awesome. Everyone rags on Kobe whenever he misses a gamewinner, so why can't we make a topic when he does make a gamewinner?


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

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Why does every Bryant thread become a war between one side demanding that Kobe be recognized as clearly the best player, or best clutch player, in the league and the other side desperately trying to play it off as nothing special?

Honestly, *both* sides sound a bit insecure. And this is over _someone else_, not even something you did.

Bryant is a great player. This was a great performance. What it isn't is proof that he's on another level from everyone else. Both sides of this constant war go way too far.


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## Nephets (Jul 15, 2004)

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Kobe bashers will never understand.


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## madskillz1_99 (Dec 5, 2004)

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Charlotte_______ said:


> Stop bringing MJ into this. He is not MJ he never will be get over it. Of course wining is more important, and LeBron wants to win games and give his teammates the opprtunity to have some input.


The MJ debate is for another thread, but he may very well be better. As far as 'Bron, that was my bad, his name shouldn't even be mentionned with Kobe, not yet at least, he's not on the same level.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

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Outstanding performance by Kobe, he is really coming on strong, averaging 37 points per game on 53% from the field in the past 5 games, and has been playing really well since the all star break. The rest really did him some good it seems, I look forward to seeing what Kobe brings next season after some legitimate rest and regularity. He'll also be more comfortable in his new situation.


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## madskillz1_99 (Dec 5, 2004)

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Minstrel said:


> What it isn't is proof that he's on another level from everyone else. Both sides of this constant war go way too far.


It may not be an irrebuttable proof, but it is evidence! :biggrin:


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

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madskillz1_99 said:


> It may not be an irrebuttable proof, but it is evidence! :biggrin:


Not really, unless you remain consistent and label every amazing performance by McGrady, Iverson and James as evidence that those guys are on another level and the best player in the NBA and "better than Jordan" as you've crazily said Bryant might be, in this thread,

I like Bryant a huge amount, but no player in this league gets more overhyped by his fans after a great performance than Bryant. Suddenly all the "better than Jordan"s and "nobody on his level"s come flying fast and furious. (James comes close, but even his fans don't yet say he's better than Jordan. They just say he might be someday.)


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## madskillz1_99 (Dec 5, 2004)

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Minstrel said:


> Not really, unless you remain consistent and label every amazing performance by McGrady, Iverson and James as evidence that those guys are on another level and the best player in the NBA and "better than Jordan" as you've crazily said Bryant might be, in this thread,
> 
> I like Bryant a huge amount, but no player in this league gets more overhyped by his fans after a great performance than Bryant. Suddenly all the "better than Jordan"s and "nobody on his level"s come flying fast and furious.


When I said he might be I was referring to the future. 

And as far as overhyping after great games, that doesn't apply to me. I've maintained all along that he is the best in the NBA and on a separate level.


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## John (Jun 9, 2002)

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jazzy1 said:


> Kobe was simply spectacular, amazing tonight. Every time I see him do stuff like this it reminds me of MJ.
> 
> I'm in my 30's, I've seen em all do it , MJ, David Thompson, Dr. J, Larry Bird, Magic.Kobe is in their class as far as clutch play is concerned.
> 
> ...


Let me go deeper than what a casual fan is trying to say. The reason Kobe was showing his clutchness is that Kobe is playing without the ball and doesnt demand the ball as much anymore thanks to be the acting headcoach Frank X, the Phil jackson wannabe running triangle offense.

The advantage of running an triangle offense is to consistently free up players have open looks and gained a step against defenders because of their constant moving without the ball in the first 3 quarters because garbage point could be scored by any NBA starting players in the game. It's the matter of constant defense and ability to dominant the game when is needed like kobe Byrant can.

Last year when Carter was here and before the A.D and JYD traded, coach Kevin Oneil liked to bench Carter alot until the last 5 minutes of the game, Carter dominated and the Raps were the second most team that beat the opposing teams which the game is decided within 3 points. Carter was clutch as well.

I said it when Kobe is 29 years old, he will have the same dominance that Jordan had at the age of 35. It doesnt meant Kobe is/was better than Jordan but his game speaking of Kobe rihgt now is good enough to be as great as Jordan who lost certain amount of athleticism at the time but could still win a championship.

Kobe is heading into a right direction but if he wants to win a MVP and guide his team to a 60 season win, he must added a catch and shoot off the screen shot and with what he is doing within Frank X's system. If he doesnt add that shot, we will only see Byrant scoring 27 a game but not 32 a game in a winning fasion.

And the season why I B! on James and T-mac because Kobe didnt any any screens to operate against any perimeter players in the game today. That's how he could suddenly score 20 points a game, all within Frank X's system and his pure exploisness in iso situations + enough stamina.


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## Ravnos (Aug 10, 2004)

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jazzy1 said:


> Kobe was simply spectacular, amazing tonight. Every time I see him do stuff like this it reminds me of MJ.
> 
> I'm in my 30's, I've seen em all do it , MJ, David Thompson, Dr. J, Larry Bird, Magic.Kobe is in their class as far as clutch play is concerned.
> 
> ...



Yeah, I agree with you jazzy. Tracy McGrady and Kobe Bryant are very near MJ's level. These two are in that class players you mentioned earlier.


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## Charlotte_______ (May 18, 2003)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*



madskillz1_99 said:


> The MJ debate is for another thread, but he may very well be better. As far as 'Bron, that was my bad, his name shouldn't even be mentionned with Kobe, not yet at least, he's not on the same level.


You lose any kind of respect for that comment. Kobe is not MJ
Kobe is not MJ Kobe is not MJ Kobe is not MJ Kobe is not MJ Kobe is not MJ Kobe is not MJ Kobe is not MJ Kobe is not MJ Kobe is not MJ Kobe is not MJ Kobe is not MJ Kobe is not MJ Kobe is not MJ Kobe is not MJ Kobe is not MJ Kobe is not MJ Kobe is not MJ Kobe is not MJ Kobe is not MJ Kobe is not MJ Kobe is not MJ Kobe is not MJ Kobe is not MJ Kobe is not MJ Kobe is not MJ. Read that and tell me what you have learned. Hmm lets see Kobe or LeBron, so hard to choose but I guess I will take LeBron. And yes not yet, but next year bye bye.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*



John said:


> Let me go deeper than what a casual fan is trying to say. The reason Kobe was showing his clutchness is that Kobe is playing without the ball and doesnt demand the ball as much anymore thanks to be the acting headcoach Frank X, the Phil jackson wannabe running triangle offense.
> 
> The advantage of running an triangle offense is to consistently free up players have open looks and gained a step against defenders because of their constant moving without the ball in the first 3 quarters because garbage point could be scored by any NBA starting players in the game. It's the matter of constant defense and ability to dominant the game when is needed like kobe Byrant can.


This is correct. Kobe is great off the ball, and when they have him moving off the ball, the defense has little time to react once he catches and makes his move. When they isolate him, the defense can key in on him and collapse to force a lower percentage shot. The Lakers under "Frank X" have been running a better combination of isolations and off the ball opportunities for Kobe. This also helps Lamar Odom.


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## Kneejoh (Dec 21, 2004)

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Minstrel said:


> Not really, unless you remain consistent and label every amazing performance by McGrady, Iverson and James as evidence that those guys are on another level and the best player in the NBA and "better than Jordan" as you've crazily said Bryant might be, in this thread,
> 
> I like Bryant a huge amount, but no player in this league gets more overhyped by his fans after a great performance than Bryant. Suddenly all the "better than Jordan"s and "nobody on his level"s come flying fast and furious. (James comes close, but even his fans don't yet say he's better than Jordan. They just say he might be someday.)


Give me an example of a clutch performance by Lebron.........thats the problem there isn't one. He plays great but not clutch, thats why Kobe is the only one considered to be close to MJ's level, he hits clutch shots the most consistently. There was a game earlier this year, it was the Cavs against Orlando, the Cavs were down by 3 with 10 or 12 seconds left, Lebron was being guarded by one guy, and he missed the shot horribly, luckily the Cavs got the offensive rebound, but time expired and Jeff McGinnis's shot didn't count. So my point is Lebron has never been clutch and that is the reason his fans have never had the opportunity to gloat about his clutchness, or lack there-of.


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## duncan2k5 (Feb 27, 2005)

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its because as soon as kobe doe something good everyone talks about "OOOOOOOH!!!!!! HE'S SO GREAT!!!!!!!!" no matter how bad he sucked the whole season. thats his only game winner (and one of about 2 clutch shots period for that matter) that he hit for the season and everyone is going crazy. bibby hit 2 in a row. and about 4 for the season. talk about him. when kobe hits more then i will consider him clutch again. one gamewinner a season out of many attempts does not make a man clutch. look how maby times this season he didnt score in the 4th or he choked at the end of the 4th. talk about that. that has been happening with more regularity than his gamewinners this season.


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

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madskillz1_99 said:


> regularity doesn't mean every game, but Kobe has done stuff like this before, and definitely more than any other star in the game.
> 
> The guy couldn't hit anything for 3.5 quarters, and then BOOM! fire. Most players just don't do stuff like that, it takes a certain greatness, and of course a huge Ego to do that.* Someone like 'Bron would probably have just kept passing to Z and McCinnis so that even though he wasn't scoring he could get his assist numbers..*.. (yeah, I said it!)


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*



thug_immortal8 said:


> Give me an example of a clutch performance by Lebron.........thats the problem there isn't one. He plays great but not clutch, thats why Kobe is the only one considered to be close to MJ's level, he hits clutch shots the most consistently. There was a game earlier this year, it was the Cavs against Orlando, the Cavs were down by 3 with 10 or 12 seconds left, Lebron was being guarded by one guy, and he missed the shot horribly, luckily the Cavs got the offensive rebound, but time expired and Jeff McGinnis's shot didn't count. So my point is Lebron has never been clutch and that is the reason his fans have never had the opportunity to gloat about his clutchness, or lack there-of.


Pointing out an example of when Lebron was "not clutch" does nothing to prove anything. For every time Kobe has had a performance like this, there have been 2 others where he failed down the stretch. That is the nature of the game. So I don't know why you even bothered to point out that one single event, because it is meaningless.


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*



thug_immortal8 said:


> Give me an example of a clutch performance by Lebron.........thats the problem there isn't one. He plays great but not clutch, thats why Kobe is the only one considered to be close to MJ's level, he hits clutch shots the most consistently. There was a game earlier this year, it was the Cavs against Orlando, the Cavs were down by 3 with 10 or 12 seconds left, Lebron was being guarded by one guy, and he missed the shot horribly, luckily the Cavs got the offensive rebound, but time expired and Jeff McGinnis's shot didn't count. So my point is Lebron has never been clutch and that is the reason his fans have never had the opportunity to gloat about his clutchness, or lack there-of.


What about the win against Phoenix? The Lebron hating is ridiculous from some of the Kobe fans.


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## Kneejoh (Dec 21, 2004)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*



JNice said:


> Pointing out an example of when Lebron was "not clutch" does nothing to prove anything. For every time Kobe has had a performance like this, there have been 2 others where he failed down the stretch. That is the nature of the game. So I don't know why you even bothered to point out that one single event, because it is meaningless.


Point out a game where Lebron was clutch?


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## madskillz1_99 (Dec 5, 2004)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*



duncan2k5 said:


> HE'S SO GREAT!!!!!!!!" no matter how bad he sucked the whole season. thats his only game winner (and one of about 2 clutch shots period for that matter) that he hit for the season and everyone is going crazy.


He's sucked all season? oh, that's news. 
And this is his only game winner? are you sure about that?


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*



thug_immortal8 said:


> Point out a game where Lebron was clutch?


I don't need to. That wasn't my point. My point was that your point was meaningless. I remember seeing numerous times this season where Kobe was not only not clutch, but miserable at the end of games. So should I go find one of those games to prove he is not clutch, like you are trying to do with Lebron?


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## Ravnos (Aug 10, 2004)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*



thug_immortal8 said:


> Give me an example of a clutch performance by Lebron.........thats the problem there isn't one.


Actually there are...you just didn't bother looking for any because you started with the belief that Kobe is better than Lebron. I'm right, aren't I? 



> He plays great but not clutch, thats why Kobe is the only one considered to be close to MJ's level, he hits clutch shots the most consistently.


There are many players who "hit clutch shots the most consistently," and thus by your definition, are close to MJ's level. McGrady, Bibby, Ben Gordon, Pierce...many players have produced consistently in the fourth quarter. Why do you feel the need to separate Kobe from these players?


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## madskillz1_99 (Dec 5, 2004)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*



Charlotte_______ said:


> You lose any kind of respect for that comment. Kobe is not MJ
> Kobe is not MJ Kobe is not MJ Kobe is not MJ Kobe is not MJ Kobe is not MJ Kobe is not MJ Kobe is not MJ Kobe is not MJ Kobe is not MJ Kobe is not MJ Kobe is not MJ Kobe is not MJ Kobe is not MJ Kobe is not MJ Kobe is not MJ Kobe is not MJ Kobe is not MJ Kobe is not MJ Kobe is not MJ Kobe is not MJ Kobe is not MJ Kobe is not MJ Kobe is not MJ Kobe is not MJ Kobe is not MJ. Read that and tell me what you have learned. Hmm lets see Kobe or LeBron, so hard to choose but I guess I will take LeBron. And yes not yet, but next year bye bye.


I have learned that you are a clown that either can't or doesn't read. I said he may end up being better than MJ. 
Anyways....... You can have Lebron, I'll take Kobe.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*



thug_immortal8 said:


> Give me an example of a clutch performance by Lebron.........thats the problem there isn't one. He plays great but not clutch, thats why Kobe is the only one considered to be close to MJ's level, he hits clutch shots the most consistently. There was a game earlier this year, it was the Cavs against Orlando, the Cavs were down by 3 with 10 or 12 seconds left, Lebron was being guarded by one guy, and he missed the shot horribly, luckily the Cavs got the offensive rebound, but time expired and Jeff McGinnis's shot didn't count. So my point is Lebron has never been clutch and that is the reason his fans have never had the opportunity to gloat about his clutchness, or lack there-of.


Here's an example: Phoenix. Lebron brings the Cavs back from 21 to beat Phoenix. Not Charlotte. Phoenix. Lebron has definitely won his share of games down the stretch. He has gone into that mode that T-Mac and Kobe go into, where he'll come down and start making every shot after the 2 minute mark.

But my personal favorite was the final minute against New Jersey last year when he basically took over both ends of the court and no one could do a damn thing about it. Watching Richard Jefferson try to foul Lebron only to see Lebron leave him in the dust for the dunk down the court was on a Michael Vick vs. Vikings level.

Why is this thread even about Lebron? You nerds.

Good job by Kobe. Respekt. Part of me wants to see Kobe just flat out miss the playoffs. But then the other part doesn't want to see the Lakers end up with the Number 1 pick in the draft through some bizarre luck.


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## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*



John said:


> Let me go deeper than what a casual fan is trying to say. The reason Kobe was showing his clutchness is that Kobe is playing without the ball and doesnt demand the ball as much anymore thanks to be the acting headcoach Frank X, the Phil jackson wannabe running triangle offense.
> 
> The advantage of running an triangle offense is to consistently free up players have open looks and gained a step against defenders because of their constant moving without the ball in the first 3 quarters because garbage point could be scored by any NBA starting players in the game. It's the matter of constant defense and ability to dominant the game when is needed like kobe Byrant can.
> 
> ...


The problem with what you're saying is Kobe has been conditioned by Phil Jackson to play the Pippen role in the Triangle. He's just learning the MJ role. To be a good screen and pop and shoot player you have to have bulky bigs capable of setting good screens.The Lakers start a skinny 4 in odom who isn't built to set those sorts of screens. Plus it requires Kobe to develop the trust that Odom can fulfill the Pippen role doing the heavy ball handiling. 

Kobe was conditioned by PJ to set the table for teammates and handle the ball bringing it up the court. 

He still handles the ball too much for the Lakers at times but he's trying to adapt. Better personnel will enable him to adapt more of that MJ role. 

Kobe isn't like MJ as a player though another real difference. MJ used 1st step blow by's to score alot of his points where as Kobe uses the dribble much more. MJ minimized his energy level doing it like that Kobe doesn't because his 1st step isn't as devestating as MJ's was. He needs to dribbles to get free MJ didn't. Plus Kobe is a better dribbler than MJ was anyway. He's a more creative dribbler. 

Tmac is more like MJ that way. He uses more catch and shoot using screens and 1st step. Kobe uses the dribble, spin moves, crossovers, and pump fakes to get free. Kobe's and Tmac's 1st step is about the same though. 

I don't know what to say about the Casual fan comment you made though I played college ball and overseas for a few years I'm alittle more than a casual fan.


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## Rickbarry (Feb 22, 2005)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*

Good game by Kobe. However, I like his game last year against portland when he hit the game tier(end of regulation) and the game winner(end of OT) in the same game I believe. One of them was an impossible shot that went down.

However, I'm still more partial to Mcgrady's 13 points in 35 seconds. Of course I'm a houston fan so I'm a little biased.

P.S. Thug Immortals avatar is the best in recorded history.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*



thug_immortal8 said:


> Give me an example of a clutch performance by Lebron.........thats the problem there isn't one.


Unfortunately not true. I think James' take-over of the game against the Suns, where the Cavs were down big, was perhaps the best "clutch" performance of the season that lasted an extended period. He scored at will, made some big defensive plays...all punctuated by a jaw-dropping power dunk through the defense.


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## Kneejoh (Dec 21, 2004)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*



Ravnos said:


> Actually there are...you just didn't bother looking for any because you started with the belief that Kobe is better than Lebron. I'm right, aren't I?


Yeah your right about the second part I just checked and he has been clutch, in the 5th game of the season I think against the Suns, he scored 17 in the 4th quarter and overtime, but I still stand by my belief that Kobe is more clutch than Lebron just by the fact that he has done it over and over again.




Ravnos said:


> There are many players who "hit clutch shots the most consistently," and thus by your definition, are close to MJ's level. McGrady, Bibby, Ben Gordon, Pierce...many players have produced consistently in the fourth quarter. Why do you feel the need to separate Kobe from these players?


That's true, but out of them the only one that gets scrutinized for missing a shot as much as Kobe is T-mac. If Bibby misses that shot against Memphis or the Clippers, nobody is gonna say anything, so if Kobe hits a game-winning shot, I'm entitled to cheering for him by posting my opninion.

I don't feel the need to separate Kobe from others, I just tell it like it is, people bash him for missing shots at the end of the game, yet when he does hit the game-winning shot, all the haters point out the times he has missed the shot, and they try to downgrade what he has accomplished.


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## Giddensfor3 (Sep 14, 2004)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*

Does anybody remember the game in 1996, the Bulls against the expansion Grizzlies. The Bulls were down like 16 in the fourth, and then MJ just scored 20 points in a row or something ridiculous like that. He could not handle losing to the Grizz and he single handidly took over the game. This is just like what Kobe did today.


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## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*

Ugh. Things must be going bad when LA(Kobe) fans celebrate a win over the worst team in the league like this. 

Minstrel said it best, after every great game Kobe has, his fans in hiding just seem to breakout and demand everybody to display the same groupie love as they do.

OK, he's the GOAT and the greatest clutch player ever. There, this should make em' happy.

I just thank god for other superstars in the league not having such consistently annoying fans.


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## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*



futuristxen said:


> Here's an example: Phoenix. Lebron brings the Cavs back from 21 to beat Phoenix. Not Charlotte. Phoenix. Lebron has definitely won his share of games down the stretch. He has gone into that mode that T-Mac and Kobe go into, where he'll come down and start making every shot after the 2 minute mark.
> 
> But my personal favorite was the final minute against New Jersey last year when he basically took over both ends of the court and no one could do a damn thing about it. Watching Richard Jefferson try to foul Lebron only to see Lebron leave him in the dust for the dunk down the court was on a Michael Vick vs. Vikings level.
> 
> ...



Save me the Lebron hype. He's not nearly as clutch as Kobe has been. Hasn't shown the instincts to come through in his career yet but a couple times.

In my mind Lebron is a good player. I'm not about to fall all over a player that hasn't played a playoff game. Kobe has come through when the pressure has been tightest. 

He's probably the most feared player in the league with the ball in his hands late. 

Lebron may earn that status but he hasn't yet. He's still developing that part of his game. Maybe he will maybe he won't. 

I'm just not ready to call Lebron great yet when he hasn't faced the most intense pressure in the playoffs. 

Kobe has earned the right to be called great. 

When he took over at the end against the SPURS in the playoffs a few years back, when DRob and Duncan were on the floor, Not against the Suns in the reg season. 

Get it, Kobe again against the Pacers in the finals when Shaq fouls out, when Kobe makes the big play against the Pistons in the finals. 

I could go on all night since you wanna compare the teams and the significance of the plays. 

I could go on all night. 

Tmac ain't in the conversation he's not in Kobe's league either in clutch ability. 

He's only messed up in the clutch when its counted in the playoffs. he has some stripes to earn also. 

This year he's only started making clutch plays in his career. yes I think Tmac is a great player he's earned it through years of great performances.


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## duncan2k5 (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*



madskillz1_99 said:


> He's sucked all season? oh, that's news.
> And this is his only game winner? are you sure about that?


positive


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## madskillz1_99 (Dec 5, 2004)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*



jazzy1 said:


> Save me the Lebron hype. He's not nearly as clutch as Kobe has been. Hasn't shown the instincts to come through in his career yet but a couple times.
> 
> In my mind Lebron is a good player. I'm not about to fall all over a player that hasn't played a playoff game. Kobe has come through when the pressure has been tightest.
> 
> ...


Yup, and i'm not even sure if James will ever attain that status, what are teams gonna fear?! That he is gonna run a sweet pick and roll and dish it to Z or Gooden for the game winner?!


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## Skydiving Bison (Mar 5, 2005)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*

So he went off in the 4th quarter. Grats for him. He is certainly capable of being en fuego but that's just it - he's streaky as hell. He'll hit every shot in one game, then brick up more than his share the next. (Not to mention he is the most likely player in the NBA today to change his name to World B.) He's not the only one who can make clutch shots, either. I'd rather have AI, Garnett, Nowitski, Duncan, etc. taking my clutch shots instead. At least I'd feel a helluva lot more confortable with their shot selection.


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## Captain Obvious (Jun 15, 2003)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*

For those who say James isn't clutch these are his and Kobe's eFG% in the clutch along with a few other prominent swingmen in the league:

Kobe- 34%
LeBron- 42%
Iverson- 37%
Pierce- 38%
McGrady- 43%
Wade- 44%
Gordon- 64%


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## farhan007 (Jun 6, 2003)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*

Congrats to beating the Bobcats!!!! Kobe = MVP!!!!


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## halfbreed (Jan 7, 2003)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*

Kobe vs. Lebron is the new Kobe vs. TMac?


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## farhan007 (Jun 6, 2003)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*

why doesnt Mcgrady get a thread this long when he scores 38 against the Suns and beat them???? Watch Sport Center talk about kobe being the next MJbecause he won a game against the Bobcats... No equal coverage...


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## BallStateCards (Oct 14, 2004)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*



Captain Obvious said:


> For those who say James isn't clutch these are his and Kobe's eFG% in the clutch along with a few other prominent swingmen in the league:
> 
> Kobe- 34%
> LeBron- 42%
> ...


That, quite possibly, is the most pointless stat that I have ever seen. First off, clutch isn't just hitting shots, its great defensive plays to. You see the end of the Mavs game earlier this week? What about that block Kobe had against Milwaukee? EIther way, what's the point of those stats? How many times have they been in the clutch? Does it take into account past years? Name one coach in the league that fears someone more than Kobe with a couple seconds left in the game. Kobe's proven it over past years at every level in the league from a meaningless game against the Bobcats to the NBA Finals. 

I don't like these Kobe threads because they inevitably become flame wars, but I think that is just a really, really stupid stat.


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## farhan007 (Jun 6, 2003)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*



halfbreed said:


> Kobe vs. Lebron is the new Kobe vs. TMac?


why...T-mac is still better than Lebron.... 


T-MAC IS YOUNGER THAN KOBE!!!


It will be lebron vs. T-mac


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*



farhan007 said:


> why doesnt Mcgrady get a thread this long when he scores 38 against the Suns and beat them???? Watch Sport Center talk about kobe being the next MJbecause he won a game against the Bobcats... No equal coverage...


Sportscenter doesn't talk about Kobe anymore, he got too old.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*



halfbreed said:


> Kobe vs. Lebron is the new Kobe vs. TMac?


Better stick to Kobe vs. McGrady. Bryant can compete with McGrady...James is going to leave them both in his exhaust.


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## alex (Jan 7, 2003)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*

Ya know what, people who compare LBJ with Bryant in "clutchness", and in doing so determine that Bryant is more "clutch", and thus a better player are missing a critical point. 

Bryant is almost twenty-seven. LBJ is 20. Hmmmm . . .

Bryant has played for eight seasons. LBJ two. Hmmm . . .

Was Bryant as "clutch" as LBJ in his second year (or third, or fourth)?





Minstrel said:


> Better stick to Kobe vs. McGrady. Bryant can compete with McGrady...James is going to leave them both in his exhaust.



:laugh: So true. Next season LBJ will clearly be better then both, and I'm no LBJ or Cav fan either.


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## farhan007 (Jun 6, 2003)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*



ClayVTrainum said:


> That, quite possibly, is the most pointless stat that I have ever seen. First off, clutch isn't just hitting shots, its great defensive plays to. You see the end of the Mavs game earlier this week? What about that block Kobe had against Milwaukee? EIther way, what's the point of those stats? How many times have they been in the clutch? Does it take into account past years? Name one coach in the league that fears someone more than Kobe with a couple seconds left in the game. Kobe's proven it over past years at every level in the league from a meaningless game against the Bobcats to the NBA Finals.
> 
> I don't like these Kobe threads because they inevitably become flame wars, but I think that is just a really, really stupid stat.


o yes... Hitting shots at the end of games arnt important at all in clutch sistuations....

*edited: Please clam down and argue about McGrady*


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## farhan007 (Jun 6, 2003)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*



Minstrel said:


> Better stick to Kobe vs. McGrady. Bryant can compete with McGrady...James is going to leave them both in his exhaust.


Lebron is leading the Cavs to what this season??? 

six game loosing streaks????

Please... Lebron is a great passer.... but when it comes to taking over games....He plainsucks at it....


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*

Kobe is the best "clutch" player because he is the most unstoppable scorer in the league with the ball in his hands. That's why Dirk, Iverson and McGrady are also great "clutch" performers. The trend is no different from the rest of the game. Those guys can create their own shot so well and score so well in the 1st three quarters, it should be no surprise that they also do it in the final minutes.


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## farhan007 (Jun 6, 2003)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*



Skydiving Bison said:


> So he went off in the 4th quarter. Grats for him. He is certainly capable of being en fuego but that's just it - he's streaky as hell. He'll hit every shot in one game, then brick up more than his share the next. (Not to mention he is the most likely player in the NBA today to change his name to World B.) He's not the only one who can make clutch shots, either. I'd rather have AI, Garnett, Nowitski, Duncan, etc. taking my clutch shots instead. At least I'd feel a helluva lot more confortable with their shot selection.


You feel comfotable with AI's shot selection???


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## Charlotte_______ (May 18, 2003)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*

"The MJ debate is for another thread, but he may very well be better. "

"I said he may end up being better than MJ. "


Oh really? Nowhere did you say in the end. And you said he may be better, *edited*.


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## Captain Obvious (Jun 15, 2003)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*



ClayVTrainum said:


> That, quite possibly, is the most pointless stat that I have ever seen. First off, clutch isn't just hitting shots, its great defensive plays to. You see the end of the Mavs game earlier this week? What about that block Kobe had against Milwaukee? EIther way, what's the point of those stats? How many times have they been in the clutch? Does it take into account past years? Name one coach in the league that fears someone more than Kobe with a couple seconds left in the game. Kobe's proven it over past years at every level in the league from a meaningless game against the Bobcats to the NBA Finals.
> 
> I don't like these Kobe threads because they inevitably become flame wars, but I think that is just a really, really stupid stat.


Settle down buddy. I didn't say that stat was the only way to measure clutchness, but I think it helps. Kobe gets criticized for not involving his teammates and forcing things, and it's clear that's what has happened for the most part this year in the clutch. But he had a great performance tonight.


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## madskillz1_99 (Dec 5, 2004)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*



farhan007 said:


> Lebron is leading the Cavs to what this season???
> 
> six game loosing streaks????
> 
> Please... Lebron is a great passer.... but when it comes to taking over games....He plainsucks at it....


yup, he's deadly on the pick and roll.


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## madskillz1_99 (Dec 5, 2004)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*



farhan007 said:


> why doesnt Mcgrady get a thread this long when he scores 38 against the Suns and beat them???? Watch Sport Center talk about kobe being the next MJbecause he won a game against the Bobcats... No equal coverage...


It's not about beating the Bobcats, it's about a 21 point tear in the 4th quarter and a cold game winning shot with the Lakers' playoff lives on the line.


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## farhan007 (Jun 6, 2003)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*



Sir Patchwork said:


> Kobe is the best "clutch" player because he is the most unstoppable scorer in the league with the ball in his hands. That's why Dirk, Iverson and McGrady are also great "clutch" performers. The trend is no different from the rest of the game. Those guys can create their own shot so well and score so well in the 1st three quarters, it should be no surprise that they also do it in the final minutes.


Wrong... Kobe is considered clutch... because he rides Shaq's back in the playoffs,,,and has chances to hit big shots in the playoffs for the past 5 years... There is nothing wrong with that... But kobe's clutchness sometimes is overrated.... kinda like his defense...


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## Bartholomew Hunt (Mar 4, 2003)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*

Calling all Lakers fans. Please stop making threads here everytime Kobe does something great because the same exact **** happens everytime! The same posters bash Kobe with the same words. We say the same words back to them. No side is going to budge. Why you continue to waste your time trying is beyond me. The only way to make haters eat crow is Kobe to continue performances like the 4th quarter tonight. Having Lakers fans telling them about certainly isn't going to help anything. And even if it did, they wouldn't admit. For every one of these threads started, we're going to end up with 10 more haters on our "farewell to the playoffs" thread at season's end. Oh, and stop degrading everyone else (Lebron) to make our boy look better. That's not doing us any good either.


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## farhan007 (Jun 6, 2003)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*



madskillz1_99 said:


> It's not about beating the Bobcats, it's about a 21 point tear in the 4th quarter and a cold game winning shot with the Lakers' playoff lives on the line.


against teh Bobcats(no disrespect.... you guys are doing good for an expansion team)


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## madskillz1_99 (Dec 5, 2004)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*



-D! said:


> Calling all Lakers fans. Please stop making threads here everytime Kobe does something great because the same exact **** happens everytime! The same posters bash Kobe with the same words. We say the same words back to them. No side is going to budge. Why you continue to waste your time trying is beyond me. The only way to make haters eat crow is Kobe to continue performances like the 4th quarter tonight. Having Lakers fans telling them about certainly isn't going to help anything. And even if it did, they wouldn't admit. For every one of these threads started, we're going to end up with 10 more haters on our "farewell to the playoffs" thread at season's end. Oh, and stop degrading everyone else (Lebron) to make our boy look better. That's not doing us any good either.


But it's fun! :biggrin:


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## Brian34Cook (Mar 26, 2003)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*

This **** is so ****in stupid..

It's like the Kobe haters can bash Kobe all the time whenever he has a bad game but when Kobe has a good performance like he did, he gets **** on and the Kobe fans get **** on aswell? In no way am I saying I'm sticking up for Kobe and his fans but some of the stuff this forum has is stupid.. Now we are turning into having a Kobe vs LeBron debate.. Over something Kobe did TONIGHT against granted, it was the Bobcats? :laugh: .. If LeBron, TMac, Duncan, Dirk, AI, Etc have great performances they should be talked about but those thread's more than likely, unless it's Tmac, will not turn into a whole other topic like this one has right? Exactly. Kobe is the devil. 

That's one of the reasons I never post on the NBA Forum is because of stupid **** like this.. I'll just stick to being myself..


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## madskillz1_99 (Dec 5, 2004)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*



farhan007 said:


> against teh Bobcats(no disrespect.... you guys are doing good for an expansion team)


yeah... you don't get it. oh well.......


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## Bartholomew Hunt (Mar 4, 2003)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*

And the Bobcats aren't that bad considering my team is struggling to make the playoffs. I'm happy with the win


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## madskillz1_99 (Dec 5, 2004)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*



farhan007 said:


> Wrong... Kobe is considered clutch... because he rides Shaq's back in the playoffs,,,and has chances to hit big shots in the playoffs for the past 5 years... There is nothing wrong with that... But kobe's clutchness sometimes is overrated.... kinda like his defense...


Yeah, he especially rode Shaq's back in those Spurs series when Shaq was getting handled by Duncan and Kobe dominated.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*



farhan007 said:


> Lebron is leading the Cavs to what this season???


"Going to" indicates the future. "This season" indicates the present. These are incompatible. Besides, team success is one of the weakest ways to measure individual ability. It's just resorted to when it's convenient to the person's argument.



> Please... Lebron is a great passer....


And scorer. And rebounder. And ball-handler. And defender of passing lanes.

But that's all. For now.



> but when it comes to taking over games....He plainsucks at it....


No, he doesn't. He's not yet as good at it as Bryant and McGrady, but he's in only his second season. And he's taken over a number of games. Tell the Pistons he "sucks" at taking over games. They couldn't do anything to stop him after frustrating Bryant in the Finals.


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## farhan007 (Jun 6, 2003)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*



madskillz1_99 said:


> yeah... you don't get it. oh well.......


Yes.... i know its "GLORIOUS"!!! Its special!!! He is carrying this team to the playoffs... 

But... the Lakers are supposed to beat the Bobcats...If the Lakers beat the bobcats by 10, and Kobe had no chance to hit that clutch shot.... this thread never would of appeared... But the sae result would of occured... Lakers beat Bobcats...


----------



## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*



-D! said:


> Calling all Lakers fans. Please stop making threads here everytime Kobe does something great because the same exact **** happens everytime! The same posters bash Kobe with the same words. We say the same words back to them. No side is going to budge. Why you continue to waste your time trying is beyond me. The only way to make haters eat crow is Kobe to continue performances like the 4th quarter tonight. Having Lakers fans telling them about certainly isn't going to help anything. And even if it did, they wouldn't admit. For every one of these threads started, we're going to end up with 10 more haters on our "farewell to the playoffs" thread at season's end. Oh, and stop degrading everyone else (Lebron) to make our boy look better. That's not doing us any good either.


When a player scores 21 in the 4th and hits a gamewinner, I think that merits a new thread. It's just that people have to leave out the Jordan comparisons, since it's unlikely that any of the perimeter players in today's game will come close to that level. But if someone makes a thread about a 21 point 4th quarter and a gamewinner, and people still get their panties tied up in a knot needing to spread hate towards Kobe, then that's their problem.


----------



## farhan007 (Jun 6, 2003)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*



madskillz1_99 said:


> Yeah, he especially rode Shaq's back in those Spurs series when Shaq was getting handled by Duncan and Kobe dominated.


Dude.. i said there was nothing wrong with that... Shaq carried him to where Kobe needed to be... and Kobe finished it... There is no denying they were a great duo...Im just saying he gets more praise for being clutch because he had the chance to play in the Big time games...


----------



## madskillz1_99 (Dec 5, 2004)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*



farhan007 said:


> Yes.... i know its "GLORIOUS"!!! Its special!!! He is carrying this team to the playoffs...
> 
> But... the Lakers are supposed to beat the Bobcats...If the Lakers beat the bobcats by 10, and Kobe had no chance to hit that clutch shot.... this thread never would of appeared... But the sae result would of occured... Lakers beat Bobcats...


yeah, like i said, you don't get it. But it's OK. :cheers:


----------



## farhan007 (Jun 6, 2003)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*



Sir Patchwork said:


> When a player scores 21 in the 4th and hits a gamewinner, I think that merits a new thread. It's just that people have to leave out the Jordan comparisons, since it's unlikely that any of the perimeter players in today's game will come close to that level. But if someone makes a thread about a 21 point 4th quarter and a gamewinner, and people still get their panties tied up in a knot needing to spread hate towards Kobe, then that's their problem.


but there shouldnt ve that much praise about... Its against the Bobcats...


----------



## farhan007 (Jun 6, 2003)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*



madskillz1_99 said:


> yeah, like i said, you don't get it. But it's OK. :cheers:


what do i not get???? Wait...If I say he is the next Jordan.... then i get it...


----------



## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*



farhan007 said:


> Wrong... Kobe is considered clutch... because he rides Shaq's back in the playoffs


That's ridiculous. Bryant didn't "ride" anyone's back. He was a *huge* reason the Lakers were great. Shaquille O'Neal, as one of the most dominant forces ever, was obviously the biggest reason, bu Bryant was every bit a superstar partner. Not beneficiary.


----------



## madskillz1_99 (Dec 5, 2004)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*



farhan007 said:


> Dude.. i said there was nothing wrong with that... Shaq carried him to where Kobe needed to be... and Kobe finished it... There is no denying they were a great duo...Im just saying he gets more praise for being clutch because he had the chance to play in the Big time games...


Yeah, and I'm saying Kobe carried Shaq in some of those playoff series.


----------



## farhan007 (Jun 6, 2003)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*



Minstrel said:


> That's ridiculous. Bryant didn't "ride" anyone's back. He was a *huge* reason the Lakers were great. Shaquille O'Neal, as one of the most dominant forces ever, was obviously the biggest reason, bu Bryant was every bit a superstar partner. Not beneficiary.


thats why i said they were a great duo...But Shaq did help him get into those clutch situations... Maybe i used too strong of a phrase when i said he "rode his back"...


----------



## madskillz1_99 (Dec 5, 2004)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*



farhan007 said:


> what do i not get???? Wait...If I say he is the next Jordan.... then i get it...


You don't get that it doesn't matter that the game was against the Bobcats, it doesn't make it any easier to hit a tough game winner or to score 21 in the 4th. Get it now?


----------



## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*



farhan007 said:


> but there shouldnt ve that much praise about... Its against the Bobcats...


So if McGrady breaks the scoring record and scores 102 points against the Hawks, there shouldn't be a thread about it? A 21 point 4th quarter and a gamewinner is impressive, and that's why it's getting talked about. The Bobcats can beat any team on any given night, that is how the NBA is. 

Nobody is saying that the Lakers beating the Bobcats in itself is amazing, it's the fashion in which it was done.


----------



## farhan007 (Jun 6, 2003)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*



madskillz1_99 said:


> You don't get that it doesn't matter that the game was against the Bobcats, it doesn't make it any easier to hit a tough game winner or to score 21 in the 4th. Get it now?


it does make it easier...Bobcats are an expansion team... Thus their defense breaks down easily...


----------



## madskillz1_99 (Dec 5, 2004)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*



farhan007 said:


> it does make it easier...Bobcats are an expansion team... Thus their defense breaks down easily...


Ok, I'm done with you. 

just out of curiosity though, how old are you?


----------



## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*



Brian34Cook said:


> This **** is so ****in stupid..
> 
> If LeBron, TMac, Duncan, Dirk, AI, Etc have great performances they should be talked about but those thread's more than likely, unless it's Tmac, will not turn into a whole other topic like this one has right?


There's a reason for that. When those players have a great performance and someone starts a thread, there isn't a certain group of fans of that superstar that insist that he's the best in the game, pretty much Jordan, on another level from everyone else, just another ho-hum domination that proves his greatness, etc.

(Certain) Kobe Bryant fans are the only ones who make the best nights by their favourite player into clear evidence that their favourite player is simply incomparable.

Maybe you should think about that, instead of jumping to the conclusion that Kobe Bryant is simply a victim on these boards.


----------



## farhan007 (Jun 6, 2003)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*



Sir Patchwork said:


> So if McGrady breaks the scoring record and scores 102 points against the Hawks, there shouldn't be a thread about it? A 21 point 4th quarter and a gamewinner is impressive, and that's why it's getting talked about. The Bobcats can beat any team on any given night, that is how the NBA is.
> 
> Nobody is saying that the Lakers beating the Bobcats in itself is amazing, it's the fashion in which it was done.


Maybe the title got me pissed off a bit... Bow down to "kobe the badass" comon thats going a bit overboard when you do it against a team you were supposed to beat... But it did deserve a thread...Ill say that...


----------



## farhan007 (Jun 6, 2003)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*



madskillz1_99 said:


> Ok, I'm done with you.
> 
> just out of curiosity though, how old are you?


18... why???
How old are you??? What you want to become friends or something???


or is it that you think im a 12 year old because i dont agree with you?


----------



## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*



farhan007 said:


> Maybe the title got me pissed off a bit... Bow down to "kobe the badass" comon thats going a bit overboard when you do it against a team you were supposed to beat... But it did deserve a thread...Ill say that...


Understandable.


----------



## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*



farhan007 said:


> 18... why???
> How old are you??? What you want to become friends or something???


:laugh:


----------



## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*



farhan007 said:


> but there shouldnt ve that much praise about... Its against the Bobcats...


Such a performance is amazing against any NBA team, and the Bobcats are very much a legitimate NBA team. They've been very competitive this season. It absolutely merited a thread and praise.

What it didn't merit was another round of "Bryant is clearly the best" assertions. He's not clearly the best. He's arguably the best perimeter player and a couple of other players are arguable for that title, as well.


----------



## John (Jun 9, 2002)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*



madskillz1_99 said:


> Yup, and i'm not even sure if James will ever attain that status, what are teams gonna fear?! That he is gonna run a sweet pick and roll and dish it to Z or Gooden for the game winner?!


Finally some kids are spreeading my words out. Pick and Roll plays!


----------



## John (Jun 9, 2002)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*



farhan007 said:


> 18... why???
> How old are you??? What you want to become friends or something???
> 
> 
> or is it that you think im a 12 year old because i dont agree with you?


Age is important to some of us at least. You know some juist dont bother to aruge if we know your age.

I wouldnt aruge with you anyway even you are 30, to be honst!


----------



## farhan007 (Jun 6, 2003)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*



John said:


> Age is important to some of us at least. You know some juist dont bother to aruge if we know your age.
> 
> I wouldnt aruge with you anyway even you are 30, to be honst!


okay...

am isuppossed to be heart broken now?
O NO!!! PLEASE ARGUE WITH ME!!! ITS THE CENTER OF MY LIFE!!! PLEASE!!! DONT NOT ARGUE WITH ME!!


----------



## alex (Jan 7, 2003)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*



John said:


> Age is important to some of us at least. You know some juist dont bother to aruge if we know your age.
> 
> I wouldnt aruge with you anyway even you are 30, to be honst!



Boy, aren't we glad you're not always honst? We love you're aruge skills, BBB.net wouldn't be anywhere without you.


----------



## Dynasty Raider (Nov 15, 2002)

*Steve Harvey on Kobe Bryant ...*

"I like Kobe as a man, but as a basketball player he sucks". --- Steve Harvey, 3-11-05, on his radio station 100.3 in LA.


That line came out of Steve's comments when he said, "Kobe knows the Lakers aren't going anywhere so he has made up his mind that he's going to get something out of this year --- a scoring title --- something. So, assist my ***. Kobe will have the ball, it slips out of his hands and a teammate will pick up the ball to go for a shot while Kobe is standing around clapping his hands saying 'I'm open, give it back, that wasn't a pass'". Funny as hell when you hear Steve tell it because that is exactly the way it seems to be.

In the game against an expansion team, you mean to tell me that 'badass' could only win by one point? Didn't the Bobcats also have some of their key players out. You can't reeeallly believe this is something to get excited about, come on, really? This IS the Lakers, right?

Yeah ... he's badass alright.


Oh --- don't ask for a link to a radio station. *I* heard it and everyone else that listens to Steve Harvey in LA heard it.


----------



## John (Jun 9, 2002)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*



jazzy1 said:


> The problem with what you're saying is Kobe has been conditioned by Phil Jackson to play the Pippen role in the Triangle. He's just learning the MJ role. To be a good screen and pop and shoot player you have to have bulky bigs capable of setting good screens.The Lakers start a skinny 4 in odom who isn't built to set those sorts of screens. Plus it requires Kobe to develop the trust that Odom can fulfill the Pippen role doing the heavy ball handiling.
> 
> Kobe was conditioned by PJ to set the table for teammates and handle the ball bringing it up the court.
> 
> ...


I dont have time to reply to you post but I want to honour you knwoledge so I just type in a few sentence before I have to go.

And reead my post again, I said when Kobe is 29 years old, he will be as good as Jordan at the age of 35.

Of course he still has quite to learn but I didnt want to type another essay of how Kobe has to learn to be the Jordan role in Trinagle, because as smart as we are, it should be understood already.


----------



## Ron Mexico (Feb 14, 2004)

*Re: Steve Harvey on Kobe Bryant ...*

Steve Harvey??? is it the Steve Harvey we all know or some sports radio hack


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*



Minstrel said:


> Better stick to Kobe vs. McGrady. Bryant can compete with McGrady...James is going to leave them both in his exhaust.



YEAAAAH BOIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!

That's the ballsy kind of posting I'm talking about.
And bonus for agreeing with me. Clearly you are after a dancing banana.

And it shall be yours:

:banana:


----------



## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*



futuristxen said:


> YEAAAAH BOIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!
> 
> That's the ballsy kind of posting I'm talking about.


Why, future, I've always posted like this. I'm heart-broken that you're only now noticing and giving me dancing bananas.


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*



farhan007 said:


> Lebron is leading the Cavs to what this season???
> 
> six game loosing streaks????


32-27
vs
32-29

playoffs.


----------



## farhan007 (Jun 6, 2003)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*



futuristxen said:


> 32-27
> vs
> 32-29
> 
> playoffs.


i was comparing him to mcgrady... Not him to kobe...


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*



John said:


> Finally some kids are spreeading my words out. Pick and Roll plays!


Why don't people have love for the pick and roll?
Is there a better play in basketball if you are a two-man team like the Cavs?

Was Stockton dumb for not running more Iso's for himself?


----------



## Dynasty Raider (Nov 15, 2002)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*



farhan007 said:


> against teh Bobcats(no disrespect.... you guys are doing good for an expansion team)



Totally agree. We are talking about THE Lakers, led by 'badass' Kobe Bryant and not Shaq.

And, they act if this is not an expansion team without some of its key players.

They should actually be embarrassed to be this excited.

Kobe's just trying to get something out of this disastrous year --- a scoring title. He could careless about the team winning, because he knows "HIS" teams won't ever win anything.

Then again, let them be excited by ANY win. Did you ever think you'd hear a Laker fan say THAT? That's for lesser teams.


----------



## Ron Mexico (Feb 14, 2004)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*



farhan007 said:


> it does make it easier...Bobcats are an expansion team... Thus their defense breaks down easily...


seeing how the rockets got swept by the them










sorry I had to say it , don't take it personally


----------



## farhan007 (Jun 6, 2003)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*



sboydell said:


> seeing how the rockets got swept by the them
> 
> 
> 
> ...


i know.. i know... Horrible times.... But the Rockets are a completly different team now...


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*



farhan007 said:


> i was comparing him to mcgrady... Not him to kobe...


So you're arguing that Mcgrady is the best of the 3?


----------



## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*

I have no problem with this, it just amazes me how quickly people turn on Kobe... I can't tell you how many posts I've seen on the Lakers board that say "Kobe you suck!" "Kobe always shoots too much at the end of games!" "Damnit Kobe always turns the ball over!" "Stop forcing it Kobe!" "Ahh! I HATE KOBE!!" Then all of a sudden, he has a good game, or two I guess if you count the Dallas one and it's "Kobe is god!" It's quite amazing...


----------



## Dynasty Raider (Nov 15, 2002)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*



sboydell said:


> seeing how the rockets got swept by the them
> 
> 
> 
> ...


But the Rockets aren't a Kobe led Laker team. You remember, the unbeatable Lakers? And, 'badass' Kobe.


----------



## farhan007 (Jun 6, 2003)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*



futuristxen said:


> So you're arguing that Mcgrady is the best of the 3?


Yes... Is that something outragous.... 

His team does have the best record... while posting simmilar numbers between the three.


----------



## shobe42 (Jun 21, 2002)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*

if the lakers make the playoffs the way Kobe has carried them and played (epecially since the all star break) he should get the MVP


----------



## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*



shobe42 said:


> if the lakers make the playoffs the way Kobe has carried them and played (epecially since the all star break) he should get the MVP



:laugh:

This thread just keeps getting better and better.

:clap:


----------



## farhan007 (Jun 6, 2003)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*



shobe42 said:


> if the lakers make the playoffs the way Kobe has carried them and played (epecially since the all star break) he should get the MVP


no... 

Why didnt T-mac win the mvp award when he AVERAGED 32 ppg and lead his team to a middle seed in the playoffs...


----------



## Dynasty Raider (Nov 15, 2002)

*Re: Steve Harvey on Kobe Bryant ...*



sboydell said:


> Steve Harvey??? is it the Steve Harvey we all know or some sports radio hack


If you know Steve Harvey one of the Comedy Kings, who has a TV show and a radio show, then yes --- it's the one we all know.

He wasn't ashamed to say it either. He likes basketball, but he believes in TEAM ball, which is what led to his comment about Kobe being a joke; these finally games are all about Kobe trying to get that scoring title and nothing else. If the team wins --- so be it. But it is not his priority.


----------



## BBB (Jan 19, 2005)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*



Dynasty Raider said:


> Totally agree. We are talking about THE Lakers, led by 'badass' Kobe Bryant and not Shaq.
> 
> And, they act if this is not an expansion team without some of its key players.
> 
> ...


Sure, we're happy about the win, even though it's against an expansion team. But what we're all raving about is the way the game was won, the way Kobe carried this team on his shoulders down the stretch.


----------



## BBB (Jan 19, 2005)

*Re: Steve Harvey on Kobe Bryant ...*



Dynasty Raider said:


> If you know Steve Harvey one of the Comedy Kings, who has a TV show and a radio show, then yes --- it's the one we all know.
> 
> He wasn't ashamed to say it either. He likes basketball, but he believes in TEAM ball, which is what led to his comment about Kobe being a joke; these finally games are all about Kobe trying to get that scoring title and nothing else. If the team wins --- so be it. But it is not his priority.


Or you can look at it in a more logical and unbiased manner. And that is Kobe is trying all his best to win more games for the Lakers, for the Lakers to make the playoffs, because he can't stand losing. Yeah?


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*



farhan007 said:


> Yes... Is that something outragous....
> 
> His team does have the best record... while posting simmilar numbers between the three.


No it's not outrageous. It's just there's a lot of diffrent factions at work right now. So you can forgive me for getting it confused.

You can make an arguement for either of the three. Constructing an arguement AGAINST either of the three is where things get dicey.


----------



## farhan007 (Jun 6, 2003)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*



futuristxen said:


> No it's not outrageous. It's just there's a lot of diffrent factions at work right now. So you can forgive me for getting it confused.
> 
> You can make an arguement for either of the three. Constructing an arguement AGAINST either of the three is where things get dicey.


No prob...i see what your saying


----------



## Dynasty Raider (Nov 15, 2002)

*Re: Steve Harvey on Kobe Bryant ...*



BBB said:


> Or you can look at it in a more logical and unbiased manner. And that is Kobe is trying all his best to win more games for the Lakers, for the Lakers to make the playoffs, because he can't stand losing. Yeah?



What would be unbiased about that? You're a Laker fan seeing what you hope to be true (through rose-colored glasses), I'm a non-Kobe fan that see an extremely selfish player that destroyed an organization and is trying to convince you all that he has learned. Don't hold your breath; you have not heard the last of Kobe's egotistical antics yet.


----------



## BBB (Jan 19, 2005)

*Re: Steve Harvey on Kobe Bryant ...*



Dynasty Raider said:


> What would be unbiased about that? You're a Laker fan seeing what you hope to be true (through rose-colored glasses), I'm a non-Kobe fan that see an extremely selfish player that destroyed an organization and is trying to convince you all that he has learned. Don't hold your breath; you have not heard the last of Kobe's egotistical antics yet.


Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, and I certainly do see where you're coming from. It's entirely possible for someone to believe that's the case I guess. 

However, think about it this way... What if the guy isn't Kobe, but is Michael Jordan? What if he's T-Mac? What if he's any other star of the league? As (by-far) the top scoring option of the team, wouldn't the star start to rely on himself much more to deliver the goods for the team? I think it's also very feasible for an unbiased spectator to think that's exactly what Kobe is doing... Working hard to win the game for the Lakers.


----------



## Debt Collector (Mar 13, 2003)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*



farhan007 said:


> no...
> 
> Why didnt T-mac win the mvp award when he AVERAGED 32 ppg and lead his team to a middle seed in the playoffs...




it was actually an 8th seed.


----------



## farhan007 (Jun 6, 2003)

guys... After reading through my posts in this thread i acted like jerk a bit. I was a bit hard on kobe in this thread... my bad...He hadone hell of a performance down the crunch time...


----------



## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

*Re: Steve Harvey on Kobe Bryant ...*



BBB said:


> Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, and I certainly do see where you're coming from. It's entirely possible for someone to believe that's the case I guess.
> 
> However, think about it this way... What if the guy isn't Kobe, but is Michael Jordan? What if he's T-Mac? What if he's any other star of the league? As (by-far) the top scoring option of the team, wouldn't the star start to rely on himself much more to deliver the goods for the team? I think it's also very feasible for an unbiased spectator to think that's exactly what Kobe is doing... Working hard to win the game for the Lakers.


Hey ... hey ... this is a Kobe thread. No rational logic allowed! 

:naughty:


----------



## Debt Collector (Mar 13, 2003)

farhan007 said:


> guys... After reading through my posts in this thread i acted like jerk a bit. I was a bit hard on kobe in this thread... my bad...He hadone hell of a performance down the crunch time...



hey, also i think i should be in your club somehow but with an asterisk or parenthesis saying "told you so"


----------



## BBB (Jan 19, 2005)

*Re: Steve Harvey on Kobe Bryant ...*



JNice said:


> Hey ... hey ... this is a Kobe thread. No rational logic allowed!
> 
> :naughty:


Okay, fine... :angel:

I just hate it when people like to classify us Lakers and Kobe fans as illogical, extemely biased and snobbish characters, when in reality most of us aren't.


----------



## Raxel (Nov 10, 2004)

I feel sorry for Lakers' fans, last year, they were champ contender, this year, they are cheering for a win over Bobcats (13/47) in last second, and call it clutch, because they can't secure the winning earlier in the game.


----------



## farhan007 (Jun 6, 2003)

Whodinee said:


> hey, also i think i should be in your club somehow but with an asterisk or parenthesis saying "told you so"


Just for you


----------



## alex (Jan 7, 2003)

I have a question for Laker, or more specifically, Kobe Bryant fans . . .

Which would you rather take, knowing their skill, ability, and talent ahead of time-- an eighteen year old Kobe Bryant or an eighteen year old Shaquille O'Neal? You can't have both and in this hypothetical world, they would play on different teams.

Others of course my chime in, but I'm most interested in Bryant's fans' response.


----------



## madskillz1_99 (Dec 5, 2004)

Raxel said:


> I feel sorry for Lakers' fans, last year, they were champ contender, this year, they are cheering for a win over Bobcats (13/47) in last second, and call it clutch, because they can't secure the winning earlier in the game.


Oh man, that's bad. You can't honestly feel that way. come on, it was a BRILLIANT performance! give credit where credit is due. Damn.


----------



## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

alex said:


> I have a question for Laker, or more specifically, Kobe Bryant fans . . .
> 
> Which would you rather take, knowing their skill, ability, and talent ahead of time-- an eighteen year old Kobe Bryant or an eighteen year old Shaquille O'Neal? You can't have both and in this hypothetical world, they would play on different teams.
> 
> Others of course my chime in, but I'm most interested in Bryant fans' response.



Nobody in their right mind would turn down a young Shaq.


----------



## madskillz1_99 (Dec 5, 2004)

farhan007 said:


> guys... After reading through my posts in this thread i acted like jerk a bit. I was a bit hard on kobe in this thread... my bad...He hadone hell of a performance down the crunch time...


I'm glad you realized it.


----------



## madskillz1_99 (Dec 5, 2004)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*



John said:


> Finally some kids are spreeading my words out. Pick and Roll plays!


LOL, i guess it's one of the things we agree on.


----------



## BBB (Jan 19, 2005)

alex said:


> I have a question for Laker, or more specifically, Kobe Bryant fans . . .
> 
> Which would you rather take, knowing their skill, ability, and talent ahead of time-- an eighteen year old Kobe Bryant or an eighteen year old Shaquille O'Neal? You can't have both and in this hypothetical world, they would play on different teams.
> 
> Others of course my chime in, but I'm most interested in Bryant's fans' response.


Kobe's easily my favourite player of the league, and he brings a whole lot to the table, but it would take the most ridiculously biased and blinded person to say yes to Kobe and no to Shaq. 

Shaq, even when not inspired, can flat-out dominate his opposition. 'Nuff said.


----------



## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*

Man this thread grew to 11 pages amazingly quick. No other performance good or bad by any other players get the traction Kobe thread gets. I personnely don't like the dude because atleast in the Shaq days I thought he was a bit selfish at times (not following plays through, poor shot selection) but there are lot of great players I think this about (AI comes to mind). So beyond style of play there is just something else in this guy's personality (the way he interviews/the rape thing/Shaq fued/Malone fued) that just rubs a ton of people the wrong way.

I think the Sports Guy was right Kobe should just turn into the bad guy like Hogan did with NWO. That would be sweet. He should grow a Fu Manchu and just trash talking every body: the league needs a villain and Kobe's already there in a ton of people's minds. All the better if he hit's a few game winners along the way


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## Lakerman33 (Oct 16, 2004)

alex said:


> I have a question for Laker, or more specifically, Kobe Bryant fans . . .
> 
> Which would you rather take, knowing their skill, ability, and talent ahead of time-- an eighteen year old Kobe Bryant or an eighteen year old Shaquille O'Neal? You can't have both and in this hypothetical world, they would play on different teams.
> 
> Others of course my chime in, but I'm most interested in Bryant's fans' response.


Any body would take shaq...hes the most dominant...thats a no brainer


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## HallOfFamer (May 26, 2003)

alex said:


> I have a question for Laker, or more specifically, Kobe Bryant fans . . .
> 
> Which would you rather take, knowing their skill, ability, and talent ahead of time-- an eighteen year old Kobe Bryant or an eighteen year old Shaquille O'Neal? You can't have both and in this hypothetical world, they would play on different teams.
> 
> Others of course my chime in, but I'm most interested in Bryant's fans' response.


Honestly, to start a franchise, there are only 3 players I would choose ahead of Kobe in this league. Shaq, Duncan, and Lebron. 

Shaq because he is Shaq, dominant, and will make you a title contender year in year out for his entire career.
Id choose Duncan, because of consistency and he is also a guy that can make you a title contender year in year out.

Now choosing Lebron is probably a controversial pick, but Ive never seen an 18 year old just come in the league and just have his way with some of the best players in the league. He can do everything on the court, and by the time he is 24 or 25, I think he'll be a better player than Kobe or Tmac ever will be. Maybe Im having unrealistic expectations for Lebron, but its honestly just the way I feel. Im a big Kobe fan, but Im also a realist, and I know Lebron will eventually be better than Kobe, it maybe a couple years from now, it maybe next year, but itll eventually happen.

That being siad, I still think Kobe is the best perimeter player in the league, and we still have yet to see his best.


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

JNice said:


> Nobody in their right mind would turn down a young Shaq.


Exactly. Let's not be ridiculous here, Kobe has done absolutely nothing in his career to make anyone believe he'd be the better franchise player in comparison to Shaquille O"Neal. The gap isn't huge, but it's there; you take 18 year Shaq over 18 year old Kobe (pretending that you know how their career progresses up until age 26, which is how old Kobe is now) every day of the week and twice on Sundays.


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## HallOfFamer (May 26, 2003)

EHL said:


> Exactly. Let's not be ridiculous here, Kobe has done absolutely nothing in his career to make anyone believe he'd be the better franchise player in comparison to Shaquille O"Neal. The gap isn't huge, but it's there; you take 18 year Shaq over 18 year old Kobe (pretending that you know how their career progresses up until age 26, which is how old Kobe is now) every day of the week and twice on Sundays.


Hell, up to the age of 26, Im pretty sure more than half of NBA GMs would take an 18 year old Shaq over an 18 year old MJ.


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

HallOfFamer said:


> Hell, up to the age of 26, Im pretty sure more than half of NBA GMs would take an 18 year old Shaq over an 18 year old MJ.


Definitely, without hesitation. Shaq at 20 over Jordan at 20 every day of the week, too. But MJ was a late bloomer.


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## John (Jun 9, 2002)

EHL said:


> Definitely, without hesitation. Shaq at 20 over Jordan at 20 every day of the week, too. But MJ was a late bloomer.


Hey, did u mean working days?
I dont work on my sats and suns, so it maybe not on my sats and suns just so u know incase u want to ask me.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

EHL said:


> Definitely, without hesitation. Shaq at 20 over Jordan at 20 every day of the week, too. But MJ was a late bloomer.


in what way? he set the mcdonalds scoring record. he started on a championship team as a freshman. he was ncaa player of the year as a sophmore and junior. then scored 28.5 ppg as an nba rookie.

granted, nobody thought he'd be the best ever coming out of college, and shaq certainly had more hype, but i wouldn't say mj bloomed late. i think it was hard to understand how dominant a 6-6 guard could be.

shaq was the later bloomer as a player, but at his size, with his ability, he was a no-brainer as a franchise player.


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## Kneejoh (Dec 21, 2004)

*Re: Bow down to Kobe the badass!*



Dynasty Raider said:


> Totally agree. We are talking about THE Lakers, led by 'badass' Kobe Bryant and not Shaq.
> 
> And, they act if this is not an expansion team without some of its key players.
> 
> ...


*edited: No personal attacks*

It doesn't matter if it is an expansion team, why dont you ask the Magic, Pistons, Hawks, Knicks, Hornets, Rockets x2,T-wolves, Raptors, Jazz, Nuggets, and Kings what they think about the "expansion team", the Bobcats have beaten 8 playoff contenders. So if the Lakers get a win agaisnt them, and the Pistons lost against them, maybe there is a reason taht Lakers fans are celebrating, its not even teh fact that it was the Bobcats as it was the fact that this keeps us in the Playoff race.


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## Blink4 (Jan 17, 2005)

Raxel said:


> I feel sorry for Lakers' fans, last year, they were champ contender, this year, they are cheering for a win over Bobcats (13/47) in last second, and call it clutch, because they can't secure the winning earlier in the game.


as u point out they win in the last second, WHICH MAKES IT CLUTCH. *edited: No personal attacks*


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## farhan007 (Jun 6, 2003)

kflo said:


> in what way? he set the mcdonalds scoring record. he started on a championship team as a freshman. he was ncaa player of the year as a sophmore and junior. then scored 28.5 ppg as an nba rookie.
> 
> granted, nobody thought he'd be the best ever coming out of college, and shaq certainly had more hype, but i wouldn't say mj bloomed late. i think it was hard to understand how dominant a 6-6 guard could be.
> 
> shaq was the later bloomer as a player, but at his size, with his ability, he was a no-brainer as a franchise player.


Why do you think Hakeem was chosen over Jordan in the draft... Because they didnt know MJ's potential.... They wanted to choose a big man over a wing player... And it wasnt like Hakeem was a bad choice.... Bu Big men were more important.


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## RG (Jan 1, 2003)

When I read the title of this thread and saw "bad ***" I cracked up! I got immediate pictures of Chris Childs and Reggie Miller punking him. :laugh:


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## Bartholomew Hunt (Mar 4, 2003)

I think Kobe is now above Jordan. It's undisputable. Did MJ ever make a buzzer beater against the Bobcats to win the game? I think not!


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## madskillz1_99 (Dec 5, 2004)

-D! said:


> I think Kobe is now above Jordan. It's undisputable. Did MJ ever make a buzzer beater against the Bobcats to win the game? I think not!


that's true. when you think about it..... :banana:


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## Kneejoh (Dec 21, 2004)

-D! said:


> I think Kobe is now above Jordan. It's undisputable. Did MJ ever make a buzzer beater against the Bobcats to win the game? I think not!


and MJ has never won a game against the New Orleans Hornets, another reason Kobe is better.


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## 2nd Nature (Dec 28, 2004)

kobe nothin, how do u keep it close with the bobcats.
beside they are still behind in wins and losses. but nice shot though


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

-D! said:


> I think Kobe is now above Jordan. It's undisputable. Did MJ ever make a buzzer beater against the Bobcats to win the game? I think not!



Yeah, but has Kobe ever had a 20+ point game at 40 yrs old? I think not!


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## Kneejoh (Dec 21, 2004)

JNice said:


> Yeah, but has Kobe ever had a 20+ point game at 40 yrs old? I think not!


You got him there, in fact Kobe's never even scored a point in his 30's


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## Drewbs (Feb 16, 2004)

2nd Nature said:


> kobe nothin, how do u keep it close with the bobcats.
> beside they are still behind in wins and losses. but nice shot though


Hey man, the Bobcats beat the Rockets who are a superior team to the Lakers twice.


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## 2nd Nature (Dec 28, 2004)

Speakin of Rox and lakes, who is on the edge of not making the playoffs?


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## Kneejoh (Dec 21, 2004)

2nd Nature said:


> Speakin of Rox and lakes, who is on the edge of not making the playoffs?


Philly?


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Another Clutch performance by Lebron James for whoever was wanting examples.


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## IV (Jul 16, 2002)

madskillz1_99 said:


> Lakers are trudging along, getting ready to lose to the Bobcats, in comes Captain Amazing with a 21 point 4th quarter, he just goes OFF. And hits the game winner with 1 second on the clock. Wow!


That was awesome. Kobe is really starting to turn it up a knotch. He was spectacular against Dallas the other night, blocking shots, running the break, hitting jumpers, getting to the rim, finding the open man, and he absolutely took the game over against Charlotte. GW jumpers at the buzzer.... Classic Kobe Bryant performance.


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## Kneejoh (Dec 21, 2004)

futuristxen said:


> Another Clutch performance by Lebron James for whoever was wanting examples.


I guess we're lowering the ball for what clutch is suppossed to be, I guess you team can win by 12 and you have still hit the game winning 12 pointer at the buzzer.


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## BBB (Jan 19, 2005)

IV said:


> That was awesome. Kobe is really starting to turn it up a knotch. He was spectacular against Dallas the other night, blocking shots, running the break, hitting jumpers, getting to the rim, finding the open man, and he absolutely took the game over against Charlotte. GW jumpers at the buzzer.... Classic Kobe Bryant performance.


Check this: 
For the past 5 games, Kobe has been averaging 37.2 pts, 7.2 rebs, 4.6 asts and shooting 53% from the field along with 92% from the FT line!


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## IV (Jul 16, 2002)

BBB said:


> Check this:
> For the past 5 games, Kobe has been averaging 37.2 pts, 7.2 rebs, 4.6 asts and shooting 53% from the field along with 92% from the FT line!


Good Lawd, I had no idea!!!!

He really knows how to elevate his play.


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## BBB (Jan 19, 2005)

IV said:


> Good Lawd, I had no idea!!!!
> 
> He really knows how to elevate his play.


AND he's leading the Lakers to victories (4-1 in the 5 games)... Before anyone comes around and claim he is just padding his stats.


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## madskillz1_99 (Dec 5, 2004)

BBB said:


> AND he's leading the Lakers to victories (4-1 in the 5 games)... Before anyone comes around and claim he is just padding his stats.


Just imagine if we hadn't let that Clippers game slide by!!! :curse: We could have been on a 5 game winning streak.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

thug_immortal8 said:


> I guess we're lowering the ball for what clutch is suppossed to be, I guess you team can win by 12 and you have still hit the game winning 12 pointer at the buzzer.


Sometimes the clutch shots aren't hit at the buzzer. I wouldn't call it lowering the bar. I would call it increasing your basketball knowledge.

The shots that decided the outcome of the game, were taken and made by Lebron James. As per usual.


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## Kneejoh (Dec 21, 2004)

futuristxen said:


> Sometimes the clutch shots aren't hit at the buzzer. I wouldn't call it lowering the bar. I would call it increasing your basketball knowledge.
> 
> The shots that decided the outcome of the game, were taken and made by Lebron James. As per usual.


Then you can say that about every game that has ever been played, there always has to be a player that hits the shots that win the game, the only didfference is if the game is decided before the final 1 or 2 that's not clutch. Clutch is hitting shots and making plays on the defensive and offensive side when the game has yet to be decided.


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## Burn (Feb 2, 2003)

Hmm why'd this slip to the 2nd page? Probably worth noting the badass has been greatly outperformed by Hughes and Iverson the last two games respectively :angel:


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## madskillz1_99 (Dec 5, 2004)

Burn said:


> Hmm why'd this slip to the 2nd page? Probably worth noting the badass has been greatly outperformed by Hughes and Iverson the last two games respectively :angel:


Don't worry, the badass will be back in full effect on Thursday night.


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## Burn (Feb 2, 2003)

that's the Miami game right? lol, I was so hyped up for the Christmas matchup, but I wouldn't have even remembered this one if you hadn't just mentioned it. They should've done a better job stressing the date in their stupid Shaq vs. Kobe commercials

So one matchup was Christmas and this one's gonna be St. Patricks Day? WHAT A COINCIDENCE :banana:


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## madskillz1_99 (Dec 5, 2004)

Burn said:


> that's the Miami game right? lol, I was so hyped up for the Christmas matchup, but I wouldn't have even remembered this one if you hadn't just mentioned it. They should've done a better job stressing the date in their stupid Shaq vs. Kobe commercials
> 
> So one matchup was Christmas and this one's gonna be St. Patricks Day? WHAT A COINCIDENCE :banana:


Yup, should be exciting, a nice stage has been set, Miami on an absolute tear, Lakers stinking it up two games in a row, their playoff lives hanging by a thread. Shaq has the chance to pound his former team and Kobe and really start putting the nails into their coffin....


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## Dynasty Raider (Nov 15, 2002)

madskillz1_99 said:


> Don't worry, the badass will be back in full effect on Thursday night.


That will only happen if SHAQ and WADE decide to play with Kobe's mind by taking the night off. 

One thing for certain, IF the Lakers win, it won't be because the Heat gave it everything they have. They don't NEED the game and Shaq doesn't need to prove anything.

You missed your opportunity the first game to make any kind of point.


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## Dynasty Raider (Nov 15, 2002)

madskillz1_99 said:


> Yup, should be exciting, a nice stage has been set, Miami on an absolute tear, Lakers stinking it up two games in a row, their playoff lives hanging by a thread. Shaq has the chance to pound his former team and Kobe and really start putting the nails into their coffin....


You can't be serious about THIS spin.  No one cares.


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## madskillz1_99 (Dec 5, 2004)

Dynasty Raider said:


> You can't be serious about THIS spin.  No one cares.


What are you talking about?


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## madskillz1_99 (Dec 5, 2004)

Dynasty Raider said:


> That will only happen if SHAQ and WADE decide to play with Kobe's mind by taking the night off.
> 
> One thing for certain, IF the Lakers win, it won't be because the Heat gave it everything they have. They don't NEED the game and Shaq doesn't need to prove anything.
> 
> You missed your opportunity the first game to make any kind of point.


Yeah, sure, the Heat have won 10 games in a row, are looking for homecourt throughout the playoffs, are playing Shaq's former team and his arch nemesis, but noooo.... they don't want to win..... 

What a loser.


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## Dynasty Raider (Nov 15, 2002)

madskillz1_99 said:


> What are you talking about?


Do you struggle with reading comprehension?


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## madskillz1_99 (Dec 5, 2004)

Dynasty Raider said:


> Do you struggle with reading comprehension?


Noone cares about the Lakers-Heat game? riiiiight. Do you struggle with common sense?


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