# McGrady goes to bat for Vince



## Ph03NIX99 (Apr 29, 2003)

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Co...665&call_pageid=969907729483&col=970081562040


McGrady goes to bat for Vince
Says Carter deserves Olympic team spot

Raptor star `got a lot out' of tournament


DOUG SMITH
SPORTS REPORTER

SAN JUAN, PUERTO RICO—If it had been anybody but the ultra-cool and collected Tracy McGrady, the question would have evoked a belly laugh, or at least a chortle.

As it was, the laid-back T-Mac got a bit animated when asked whether his distant cousin Vince Carter deserves a spot on next year's United States Olympic team.

"Aw, c'mon," McGrady said, mixing incredulity with shock that someone would ask such a silly question. "Absolutely, man. Absolutely. He's one of the elite players in the league, he's one of the superstars and all-stars in our league. Why shouldn't they put him on the team?"

Carter capped an excellent Olympic tournament on Sunday by making six of seven shots, including a couple of thunderous, crowd-pleasing dunks in the first half. He finished with 12 points as the United States ripped Argentina 106-73 to win the gold medal.

The 26-year-old Raptor swingman led the tournament in field-goal percentage — connecting on more than 70 per cent of his two-point attempts — and showed signs that not only is he fully over the knee injuries that have plagued him for a season and a half but that he's as good as he ever was.

"I think I got a lot out of this," he said. "Not just for myself, my teammates were able to see the hard work I put in this summer and the intensity that I'm ready to play with."

Of course, he's only one knee injury from again hearing his toughness criticized, but that's always going to be the case. If he stays healthy and keeps doing what he did in San Juan, though, people will quickly forget the jumper's knee and sprained ankle and various bumps and bruises he's dealt with.

Because he was added to the team as a replacement for Kobe Bryant, Carter is not one of the "core players" already promised spots next summer in Athens. But from his play and with the overwhelming recommendation of coach Larry Brown, it's almost inconceivable that Carter won't get an invitation for one of the final three spots.

"I'll definitely look into it," he said if an offer came. "This is a wonderful experience, a great bunch of guys and the thing that was most refreshing was we played together. There was no controversy, no nothing. Everybody had a great time doing it."


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## Slasher (Jul 11, 2003)

LOL you know how I feel about T-Mac, he's a pure idiot.


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## vickdaquick (Aug 12, 2003)

> LOL you know how I feel about T-Mac, he's a pure idiot.


:laugh: :rotf: :laugh:


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## charlz (Jun 9, 2003)

T-MAC has to mend some fences around the league after dropping that bomb on Kobe


"...if you are married stay with your wife..."

Alot of other players do not like him and I think he is getting uneasy about all the bridge burning he has done.


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## MadFishX (Jun 28, 2003)

well nobody expects him to say tha "no , he doesnt deserve a spot cuz im a betta player", ...but then again..it IS T-mac..tha same guy tha said to kobe "to stick to his wife"


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>MadFishX</b>!
> well nobody expects him to say tha "no , he doesnt deserve a spot cuz im a betta player", ...but then again..it IS T-mac..tha same guy tha said to kobe "to stick to his wife"


Come on... those comments weren't bad at all. They were taken way out of context by the media. He also said that he felt for Kobe and wished him the best in the same interview. Stop villifying T-Mac for something he didn't do wrong. He's said a lot of stupid stuff in his career, but the piece on Kobe wasn't one of them. Get out of your McGrady-hating shells people... he left 3 years ago!


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## MJG (Jun 29, 2003)

I wonder if there is anything he could ever do to please some of you Raptor fans ...


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>MJG</b>!
> I wonder if there is anything he could ever do to please some of you Raptor fans ...


Exactly... I mean for chrissakes he just said Vince should absolutely be in the Olympics and some of you call him an idiot for it?


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## charlz (Jun 9, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>MJG</b>!
> I wonder if there is anything he could ever do to please some of you Raptor fans ...


yes:

1. demand a trade back to toronto
2. once traded ask to have his contract reduced to the NBA min,
3. Denounce Isaiah Thomas as the bane of the Raptors existence
4. Be "Scotty" to Vince's "Michael" 
5. Hold a press confernece saying that he loves the cold weather and will stay in Toronto and kiss the a$$ of every Rap fan that is still stinging from his lies to Grunwald and the organization.


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## MJG (Jun 29, 2003)

Yes, I think that would do it :laugh: It just seems like anytime he does anything at all, good or bad or neither, there are some people here that immediately post "What a moron!" or something like that. Maybe I'm overexaggerating though, maybe I just always read Slasher's posts


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## Ph03NIX99 (Apr 29, 2003)

Ya but just doing number 1 on your list will please 99.9% of the Raptor fans.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Budweiser_Boy</b>!
> 
> 
> Come on... those comments weren't bad at all. They were taken way out of context by the media. He also said that he felt for Kobe and wished him the best in the same interview. Stop villifying T-Mac for something he didn't do wrong. He's said a lot of stupid stuff in his career, but the piece on Kobe wasn't one of them. Get out of your McGrady-hating shells people... he left 3 years ago!


well said


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

McGrady's a moron


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>murdarous</b>!
> McGrady's a moron


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BEEZ</b>!


:laugh: i'm j/k dude. :laugh:

just following the bandwagon


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>murdarous</b>!
> 
> 
> :laugh: i'm j/k dude. :laugh:
> ...


ok well I'll join.

McGrady sux


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

Join my bandwagon... at least you'll look smart while doing so.


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Budweiser_Boy</b>!
> Join my bandwagon... at least you'll look smart while doing so.


i don't blame you for hating McGrady, nor any raptor fan. 

i think he's a good player, i just don't like some of the decision he's made. but i'm not hating on him. heck, i even put him on my team in the 2K series


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>murdarous</b>!
> 
> 
> i don't blame you for hating McGrady, nor any raptor fan.


Buh? I don't hate him...



> i think he's a good player, i just don't like some of the decision he's made. but i'm not hating on him. heck, i even put him on my team in the 2K series


:yes: Exactly my feelings towards him. He's a top 5 player but sometimes runs his mouth too much (see: Charlotte series).


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Budweiser_Boy</b>!
> 
> 
> Buh? I don't hate him...


i thought you did :dunno:

but my statement was towards anyone who hates him i.e. Slasher :grinning:


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>murdarous</b>!
> 
> 
> i thought you did :dunno:
> ...


Read posts #6, #8.


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## MadFishX (Jun 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>MJG</b>!
> Yes, I think that would do it :laugh: It just seems like anytime he does anything at all, good or bad or neither, there are some people here that immediately post "What a moron!" or something like that. Maybe I'm overexaggerating though, maybe I just always read Slasher's posts


i think every1's like that to a perticular player. u cant tell me tha there isnt one nba player that u hate and want to make fun of or bring down everytime u get a chance to. how would u feel if a star player stabs u in tha back?


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## EBP2K2 (Jun 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>MJG</b>!
> Yes, I think that would do it :laugh: It just seems like anytime he does anything at all, good or bad or neither, there are some people here that immediately post "What a moron!" or something like that. Maybe I'm overexaggerating though, maybe I just always read Slasher's posts


cause every time Rap fans see or hear t-mac, they are always reminded of the 'WHAT IF'... what if T-MAC stayed in Tdot.... Toronto would have been diiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiirrrrty rivalling the best of the west... Tmac and VC... 

we also feel kinda robbed blind too, just when he was about to blossom into a super star, he left T.O... after we basically farmed him into the player he is now.


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## open mike (Jan 3, 2003)

mcgrady used 2 be my fav player, when i first started watching basketball...

when it wuz his second season in toronto, he wuz my favorite player. and then even when vince came i still liked mcgrady more
but then he left n i wuz so upset:no: but now im over it..sorta. its just gay that he couldnt see how much better off both of them woulda been if he stayed. they would be in championship contention right now NO DOUBT, n he probably coulda gotten a max contract anyway if he wanted, im pretty sure toronto wuz willing to give it.


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

So what... stop whining guys. Just because he left 3 years ago, and you can't get over it somehow, doesn't mean you should bash him for saying good things about Vince.

Boo hoo hoo he left, now let's call him a moron for sticking up for Vince... the same thing that he did to us happened to Orlando with Shaq! How do you think Magic fans feel about that?

If you guys can't accept the fact that he left <b>three years ago</b> and maybe, <i>just maybe</i>, he's matured just a little since then... then I don't know what to say.

Showing support for two of the top players AT HIS POSITION (Kobe, Vince) does NOT warrant you guys calling him an idiot.


I'd think after 3 years Raptors fans would have smartened up a bit and loosened their hatred and bitterness towards McGrady... guess I was wrong.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

You Raptors fans amaze me. There is no way to tell if TMAC would be the player he is today if he stayed in Toronto. All of that is pure speculation because in Orlando he was given free reign. That was not the case in Toronto. Vince was/is everybody's boy there. TMAC wasnt gonna just take away his spotlight. YOU FANS would NOT have allowed it. I tell you, you guys bitterness wont make TMAC come back or change anything


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## Dathomieyouhate (Jun 21, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BEEZ</b>!
> You Raptors fans amaze me. There is no way to tell if TMAC would be the player he is today if he stayed in Toronto. All of that is pure speculation because in Orlando he was given free reign. That was not the case in Toronto. Vince was/is everybody's boy there. TMAC wasnt gonna just take away his spotlight. YOU FANS would NOT have allowed it. I tell you, you guys bitterness wont make TMAC come back or change anything



NOT TRUE AT ALLL... vince was injured .. t mac would have so much free REIGN.. get real.. and oh yeah..

T-MAC is a MORON!! he could of won championships.. but he rather NOT make it out of the first round...


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Dathomieyouhate</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So what you are telling me is that Toronto was ready to make this Tracy's team and Vince be 2nd fiddle. Get real. Tmac's last season there Vince was not hurt. TMAC is a MORON I think hes smart. Look at your response Vince was hurt, so basically the same thing he has been going through in Orlando he would have been going through in Toronto. Once again, you guys amuse me


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## TMOD (Oct 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Dathomieyouhate</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


He had almost no reason to stay in Toronto and many to go to Orlando...and what is your point about championships? Grant Hill signed with Orlando too ya know.


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Dathomieyouhate</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

And be honest. How many actually thinks "Damn, what could have been..." every time they hear T-Mac's name? Be honest guys, cause I certainly don't anymore.


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## Slasher (Jul 11, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>MJG</b>!
> I wonder if there is anything he could ever do to please some of you Raptor fans ...


We Raptors fans are educated, and know when an idiot comes around. Let me give you a brief history of T-Mac's stupidity. 

1. In 2000 puts his mother on ESPN who says offencive remarks about Vince Carter, his mother, and his family.

2. From 2001 until 2002 has repeatedly put down Vince Carter and his committment to the Toronto Raptors.

3. In February 2003 made negative comments when Vince first refused to give up his starting role in the All-Star game to Michael Jordan.

4. And now..... drumroll please.................. the idiot makes a remark about Kobe Bryant, sticking his nose where it doesn't belong.


So, I ask you, MJG what exactly pleases you about Tracy "Idiot" McGrady? :|


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## icehawk (May 30, 2003)

The T-Mac hate is pretty immature. He didn't want to stay in Toronto, fine, deal with it. 

The Kobe comment is NOTHING. Kobe admits to having sex with another woman other than his wife. Now I don't know him personally, but that's scum to me.

As far as T-Mac being successful in T-Dot.. it could've happened. Later that season, when he started starting, he was averaging over 20 ppg and his boards and assists were higher than Vince's. We just needed a good PG and not Christie. A healthy Carter and a developed McGrady could have brought us to the Eastern finals. If we just had him for another year or two who knows..

I think the main force behind the hate is McGrady's success. He's one of the top 5 players in the league (with Duncan, Garnett, Kobe, and Shaq IMO) and he's the league's leading scorer. If he ended up an average starter or stayed a bench player, Raptor fans wouldn't be hating.


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Slasher</b>!
> 
> 
> We Raptors fans are educated, and know when an idiot comes around. Let me give you a brief history of T-Mac's stupidity.
> ...


News Flash! That was 3 years ago!



> 2. From 2001 until 2002 has repeatedly put down Vince Carter and his committment to the Toronto Raptors.


Repeatedly? He wanted Vince to join him in Orlando. Yeah that was immature, but again, that was awhile ago!



> 3. In February 2003 made negative comments when Vince first refused to give up his starting role in the All-Star game to Michael Jordan.


That makes him an idiot how?



> 4. And now..... drumroll please.................. the idiot makes a remark about Kobe Bryant, sticking his nose where it doesn't belong.


As I already explained, but you obviously didn't read, those comments were taken way out of context, and another thing, he was ASKED on the situation. He didn't stick his nose anywhere.



> So, I ask you, MJG what exactly pleases you about Tracy "Idiot" McGrady? :|


That's the point, he's not an idiot. An idiot is a Raptors fan who can't let go of the fact that T-Mac left three years ago.


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

Budweiser, just live with the fact that there will be raptor fans who will always hate McGrady. it's not idiotic of the to do so, since McGrady did screw the raps at one point. 

you have as much chance chaging some people's views on McGrady than McGrady actually coming back.


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>murdarous</b>!
> Budweiser, just live with the fact that there will be raptor fans who will always hate McGrady. it's not idiotic of the to do so, since McGrady did screw the raps at one point.
> 
> you have as much chance chaging some people's views on McGrady than McGrady actually coming back.


Yeah this is hopeless. I'm done on this thread.


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## Slasher (Jul 11, 2003)

Budboy, how about those Magic fans that hate Shaquille O'Neal and Anfernee Hardaway? Awww... cat got your toungue now? LOL .... And let me remind you that Anfernee and Shaq are much more intelligent people than a low high-schooler Tracy McGrady.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Slasher</b>!
> Budboy, how about those Magic fans that hate Shaquille O'Neal and Anfernee Hardaway? Awww... cat got your toungue now? LOL .... And let me remind you that Anfernee and Shaq are much more intelligent people than a low high-schooler Tracy McGrady.


You sound really ridiculous by dissing McGrady because he came straight from high school.


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## Dathomieyouhate (Jun 21, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>TMOD</b>!
> He had almost no reason to stay in Toronto and many to go to Orlando...and what is your point about championships? Grant Hill signed with Orlando too ya know.


vince and t mac were pretty young and would be WAY better then pippen and jordon..


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## Ben1 (May 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>icehawk</b>!
> 
> I think the main force behind the hate is McGrady's success. He's one of the top 5 players in the league (with Duncan, Garnett, Kobe, and Shaq IMO) and he's the league's leading scorer. If he ended up an average starter or stayed a bench player, Raptor fans wouldn't be hating.


I agree. 

But the thing is, if T-Mac had stayed in Toronto, it's not absolutely a sure thing that he would turn out to be the player he is today.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Dathomieyouhate</b>!
> 
> 
> vince and t mac were pretty young and would be WAY better then pippen and jordon..


You cant be serious:laugh:


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## Dathomieyouhate (Jun 21, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BEEZ</b>!
> 
> 
> You cant be serious:laugh:


ya i can be serious dip


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Dathomieyouhate</b>!
> 
> 
> ya i can be serious dip


I can take that either way. This time I'ma let it slide and if you are serious that really shows your lack of bball knowledge when Tmac and Carter together havent accomplished 25% of what Michael Jordan alone did much less to add Pippen


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BEEZ</b>!
> 
> 
> I can take that either way. This time I'ma let it slide and if you are serious that really shows your lack of bball knowledge when Tmac and Carter together havent accomplished 25% of what Michael Jordan alone did much less to add Pippen


More like 2.5%. But it is a fantasy question, anyways, to compare Jordan and Pippen to what Carter and T-Mac *could* have done together.


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## SlamDunkShot (Jul 24, 2003)

forget T-Mac and Vince....i wish we could have seen the dynamic duo of Eric Montross and Remon Van De Hare.


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## Dathomieyouhate (Jun 21, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BEEZ</b>!
> 
> 
> I can take that either way. This time I'ma let it slide and if you are serious that really shows your lack of bball knowledge when Tmac and Carter together havent accomplished 25% of what Michael Jordan alone did much less to add Pippen


well DUHH HE SIGNED WITH ANOTHER TEAM!!


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Dathomieyouhate</b>!
> 
> 
> well DUHH HE SIGNED WITH ANOTHER TEAM!!


Please learn to read. I said TMAC and Vince together meaning both men. Neither combined, seperated, together as one could hold a candle to MJ's career. You are really starting to sound ridiculous


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## Dathomieyouhate (Jun 21, 2003)

im talking about TOGTHER.. not apart..


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Dathomieyouhate</b>!
> im talking about TOGTHER.. not apart..


What are you not understanding??? Together, apart whatever. These 2 guys are not on MJ's level so to say the would have been better than Michael and MJ is plain ridiculous.


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## Ph03NIX99 (Apr 29, 2003)

I think no one will argue MJ is the best out of those 4 players but you could argue pippen is the least out of the 4 so the combined sum of Vince and Tmac together could have equalled or possibly been even better than the sum of MJ and Pippen. But we could be arguing this forever and it is pointless because Vince and Tmac are not together and it's just speculation.


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## The MAgiC (Aug 3, 2003)

You Raptor fans are right. It's true! T-Mac is an idiot! Only an idiot would think Carter is worthy of an Olympic spot! Only an idiot would call that has-been an elite player! :laugh: It's all true! 

Also, I find it hilarious that Raptor fans are still saying T-Mac would be Pippen to Vince's MJ... even though T-Mac is 10 times the player Carter is? Get real. Stop whining. He left. He went to the BETTER team. You would have never won a championship and you're forever cursed to spend eternity (Or until the Raptors go extinct, which is another 5-10 yrs from now) in the depths of the lottery. Enjoy it.


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## Dathomieyouhate (Jun 21, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>The MAgiC</b>!
> You Raptor fans are right. It's true! T-Mac is an idiot! Only an idiot would think Carter is worthy of an Olympic spot! Only an idiot would call that has-been an elite player! :laugh: It's all true!
> 
> Also, I find it hilarious that Raptor fans are still saying T-Mac would be Pippen to Vince's MJ... even though T-Mac is 10 times the player Carter is? Get real. Stop whining. He left. He went to the BETTER team. You would have never won a championship and you're forever cursed to spend eternity (Or until the Raptors go extinct, which is another 5-10 yrs from now) in the depths of the lottery. Enjoy it.


oh please THE MAGIC CAN't EVEN MAKE IT OUT OF THE FIRST ROUND!!!! 

plus we have better attendance then the lame magic fans. It's harder for you guys to get a sell out then win a play off game without shaq... we have a better arena etc... there is noway in hell the raps will fold.. t mac isn't the idiot.. [edit]


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## Ph03NIX99 (Apr 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>The MAgiC</b>!
> You Raptor fans are right. It's true! T-Mac is an idiot! Only an idiot would think Carter is worthy of an Olympic spot! Only an idiot would call that has-been an elite player! :laugh: It's all true!
> 
> Also, I find it hilarious that Raptor fans are still saying T-Mac would be Pippen to Vince's MJ... even though T-Mac is 10 times the player Carter is? Get real. Stop whining. He left. He went to the BETTER team. You would have never won a championship and you're forever cursed to spend eternity (Or until the Raptors go extinct, which is another 5-10 yrs from now) in the depths of the lottery. Enjoy it.


I never said T-Mac would be Pippen to Vince's MJ.. All I said was the sum of T-mac and Vince would be better than the sum of Pippen and Jordan. With Pippen and Jordan, it was Jordan who was clearly the better player. With T-mac and Vince there talent is alot closer to being equal. When both are healthy they have equal talent. I will say T-mac has been the better the past two seasons with Carter out with injury but if Carter comes back without re-injury then there stats will be very similar.


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## The MAgiC (Aug 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Dathomieyouhate</b>!
> 
> 
> oh please THE MAGIC CAN't EVEN MAKE IT OUT OF THE FIRST ROUND!!!!
> ...


Oh please, THE RAPTORS CAN'T EVEN MAKE IT *TO* THE FIRST ROUND!!!! :laugh:

You have better attendance? 

Toronto Population: 5,029,900
Orlando Population: 1,809,709

Gee, I wonder. Could the fact that Toronto is 3 times the size of Orlando have something to do with that? Maybe! Just maybe!  Hilarious how you talk about our ability to sell out games, considering all of our home playoff games were sold out. And at least we HAD home playoff games to begin with. But why pay attention to the facts when you can just flap your gums?!

You've just been owned, and it's your own fault for making it so damn easy.


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

now this thread has turned into a 'Toronto vs Orlando' thread? :thumbdown:


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>The MAgiC</b>!
> 
> 
> Oh please, THE RAPTORS CAN'T EVEN MAKE IT *TO* THE FIRST ROUND!!!! :laugh:


Wrong. The Raptors have made it to the playoffs their last three healthy seasons. I can't imagine a healthy Raptors team not in the playoff picture this year, either.



> You've just been owned, and it's your own fault for making it so damn easy.


No... not really.

And Sacramento's population (2000) was 407,018. That was 3 years ago, so it obviously rose, but definately not to the population of Orlando. They sell out all their games. What's your point on the population?

By the way, don't turn it into a Toronto vs. Orlando thread...


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## Dathomieyouhate (Jun 21, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Budweiser_Boy</b>!
> And Sacramento's population (2000) was 407,018. That was 3 years ago, so it obviously rose, but definately not to the population of Orlando. They sell out all their games. What's your point on the population?



the bud man says it again..


You just BEEN owned... AND IT's YOUR fault for makin it SO DAMN EASY HAHA


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Dathomieyouhate</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


*says this while he's hiding behind Budboy*


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## Dathomieyouhate (Jun 21, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>murdarous</b>!
> 
> 
> *says this while he's hiding behind Budboy*


hahah [EDIT]you lol  

PLEASE CUT OUT THE CURSING AND ****. IT GETS PRETTY ANNOYING FOR ME. THANKS.
SKYWALKER


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## Ben1 (May 20, 2003)

Pippen in his prime isn't worse than either T-Mac or VC now.


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

Pippen in his prime led the bulls to a 50+ season


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## The MAgiC (Aug 3, 2003)

Uhhm, I was using metro population buddy. Sacramento's is 2,068,427. Bigger than Orlando's. Sacramento's 435,245 city limits pop. compared to Orlando's 193,722 (Toronto's is over 2 million, see the difference now?). And of course their attendance will be better anyway, they have one of the best teams in the league. We don't. It's a given.

Don't tell me about what the Raptors "can do" when they're healthy. They didn't do squat last season. I don't want to see a Raptors fan saying we can't get out of the 1st round when you didn't even get there, injured or not.


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## TheRifleman (May 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>charlz</b>!
> 
> 
> yes:
> ...


Shhhhh! Someone might actually think you're serious with this reply!


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>The MAgiC</b>!
> Uhhm, I was using metro population buddy. Sacramento's is 2,068,427. Bigger than Orlando's. Sacramento's 435,245 city limits pop. compared to Orlando's 193,722 (Toronto's is over 2 million, see the difference now?). And of course their attendance will be better anyway, they have one of the best teams in the league. We don't. It's a given.


If it's such a given, then why do you need to post city populations when comparing crowd sizes?

By the way, how come the Raptors can sell out games when a team like the Clippers, who did better than the Raptors last season, and plays in a much larger city (according to you the two criteria for better attendance), can't?



> Don't tell me about what the Raptors "can do" when they're healthy. They didn't do squat last season. I don't want to see a Raptors fan saying we can't get out of the 1st round when you didn't even get there, injured or not.


What you're basically saying in this post is that whether we were injured or not last season, we didn't make the playoffs - which is true. That's a fact. And to counter it, I can go on and on with IF's, saying that you guys wouldn't have made it if you didn't have your best players playing at all times like we had to deal with, but I won't. I'll give you facts. And a FACT is that Vince led the Raptors to the 2nd round, farther than T-Mac has carried his team. Another FACT is that the last time Vince was healthy the Raptors were 3rd in the East. Another FACT is the last time the Raptors as a team were healthy, they made the playoffs - and went farther than the Magic might I add. In FACT, the only season the past 4 years the Magic went fartehr than the Raptors was this past season, which if you ask anyone was an injury-riddled season for the Raptors.

You can say that Raptors fans shouldn't say you guys can't get out of the first round because the Raptors didn't make it last season. But considering the fact that Vince has led the Raptors farther than the Magic in recent history, gives those fans permission to say so.

Oh and the fact that the Magic haven't been out of the 1st round with T-Mac... that's another reason they should be able to say it. What do you expect them to say, "Forget what you think, the Nets didn't make it to the finals, the Magic did!!!"?


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

i wonder how far the magic will go with McGrady gone for 3/4 of the season


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## MadFishX (Jun 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Budweiser_Boy</b>!
> 
> 
> If it's such a given, then why do you need to post city populations when comparing crowd sizes?
> ...




^^^^ thiz guyz smart, dont mess with him....i call check mate, you won this arguement


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## MadFishX (Jun 28, 2003)

$10 says this is gon be anotha sticky...:yes: :yes: :yes:


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>MadFishX</b>!
> $10 says this is gon be anotha sticky...:yes: :yes: :yes:


you're on. paypal?


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## MadFishX (Jun 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>murdarous</b>!
> 
> 
> you're on. paypal?



ahahah lol sure sure


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

Honestly if I were still a mod I would make this a sticky just because murdarous took up that bet.


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## MadFishX (Jun 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Budweiser_Boy</b>!
> Honestly if I were still a mod I would make this a sticky just because murdarous took up that bet.



ahahhah lol..u ma boi then:laugh:


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Budweiser_Boy</b>!
> Honestly if I were still a mod I would make this a sticky just because murdarous took up that bet.


:laugh:

is it because of my 'JYD at the 3' ideal?


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## eX-RateD (Sep 7, 2003)

Raptors fans need to get a life and get over the fact that players leave. I live in Toronto myself and it's embarrassing to see how we constantly boo and hold grudges on some ex players. It's actually pathetic and tiresome. 

I personally think McGrady was an *** for leaving like that. He had a huge fan base here all throughout his career even while he was on the bench. He left us hanging, chanting and waiving the T-Mac come back signs all while he KNEW he wanted to leave. He hurt the growth of this team by leaving. He could have informed Glen of his intentions, so we could have done a sign and trade with Orlando. For that I hate him as a person, but you can't disrespect his game!! He was my fav raptor and I knew he was going to be better than Vince.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>eX-RateD</b>!
> Raptors fans need to get a life and get over the fact that players leave. I live in Toronto myself and it's embarrassing to see how we constantly boo and hold grudges on some ex players. It's actually pathetic and tiresome.
> 
> I personally think McGrady was an *** for leaving like that. He had a huge fan base here all throughout his career even while he was on the bench. He left us hanging, chanting and waiving the T-Mac come back signs all while he KNEW he wanted to leave. He hurt the growth of this team by leaving. He could have informed Glen of his intentions, so we could have done a sign and trade with Orlando. For that I hate him as a person, but you can't disrespect his game!! He was my fav raptor and I knew he was going to be better than Vince.


The Raptors did do a Sign-and-Trade with Orlando:yes:


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## MadFishX (Jun 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe45555</b>!
> 
> 
> The Raptors did do a Sign-and-Trade with Orlando:yes:




yea, but they got nuffin out of it. they got a draft pick, that ended up being orlando's anyway


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## eX-RateD (Sep 7, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>MadFishX</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



... and he got a max contract to boot. :sigh:


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## Dathomieyouhate (Jun 21, 2003)

at least detriot got ben wallace and chucky atkins...


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## TheRifleman (May 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Dathomieyouhate</b>!
> at least detriot got ben wallace and chucky atkins...


As people who know how to live say - <b>Get over it and MOVE ON!</b>


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## shazha (Nov 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Budweiser_Boy</b>!
> 
> What you're basically saying in this post is that whether we were injured or not last season, we didn't make the playoffs - which is true. That's a fact. And to counter it, I can go on and on with IF's, saying that you guys wouldn't have made it if you didn't have your best players playing at all times like we had to deal with, but I won't. I'll give you facts. And a FACT is that Vince led the Raptors to the 2nd round, farther than T-Mac has carried his team. Another FACT is that the last time Vince was healthy the Raptors were 3rd in the East. Another FACT is the last time the Raptors as a team were healthy, they made the playoffs - and went farther than the Magic might I add. In FACT, the only season the past 4 years the Magic went fartehr than the Raptors was this past season, which if you ask anyone was an injury-riddled season for the Raptors.
> 
> ...


hey budwiser heres a FACT for ya, vince leading his team through the second round of the playoffs is the PAST.

Thats a pre injury vince, unless u can see the future, u dont know what vince will return as. as far as we know the FACT is he is a has been. just another allan houston without his freak athletisism.

Heres another FACT Team USA games dont mean squat against international competition. I know the talent is getting better but the NBA is a much rougher game, vinces durability will be tested.

FACT is vince is no good to his team being injured. If raptors fans are gonna use their injury excuse for not making the playoffs, then magic fans can say that they didnt win the CHAMPIONSHIP because grant hill was injured.

FACT is T-Mac at "present" time is doing more than Vince. If both teams were healthy seriuosly i really think orlando would come out on top. especially with hill healthy.

now bout the pippen and jordan to T-mac and vince thing. They are all talented but what separates them is defense. Those bulls were an absoloute lockdown.


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## MadFishX (Jun 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>shazha</b>!
> 
> 
> hey budwiser heres a FACT for ya, vince leading his team through the second round of the playoffs is the PAST.
> ...




T-mac did NOT play betta then carter when he was playin. Check this out. The only reason T-mac avg. 30+ pts per game is because he's on a one man team. 

let's compare some stats
FG%: Carter: 46.7%
T-mac: 45.7%

FT%: Carter: 80.6%
T-mac: 74.8%

TO: Carter: 1.72
T-mac: 2.10

Although, T-mac beat carter in 3 pt% and ppg, u cant blame carter, he was injured half tha season. T-mac also beat carter in rpg. DUH he's 2 inches taller than carter and play SF most of tha time.

Ok, im not gon use the "injury" excuse no more, let's compare CAREER STATS.


FG%: Carter: 45.4%
T-mac: 45.3%

3pt%: Carter: 38.7%
T-Mac: 36.1%

PPG: Carter: 24.1
T-mac: 20.3 (that's about what carter avg. last season!!!!)

carter led t-mac in most scorin categories in his career. although u cant argue that t-mac had tha betta season last yea, u cant say he is betta than carter without whitnessing carter fully healthy. I rest my case


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>shazha</b>!
> Thats a pre injury vince, unless u can see the future, u dont know what vince will return as. as far as we know the FACT is he is a has been. just another allan houston without his freak athletisism.


Alright.. I haven't been paying much attention to this thread, but that comment deserves a little heat.

I'm not sure why it is a "*FACT*" that Vince is a has been. If by "has been" you mean "has been injured" and "hasn't been playing," than you would be right. But you are trying to imply that his ability to play at a high level is gone, and there is no way that is a *fact*. How do you know he won't play well ever again? How can you say that with any certainty? You are just assuming, but you are mostly just hating.



> Originally posted by <b>shazha</b>!
> FACT is T-Mac at "present" time is doing more than Vince.


Actually, nobody is doing anything at "present," because it is the off-season. And if you want to get really technical, at "present" Vince is the healthy one, not T-Mac. If we played a game right now, T-Mac would be the one dragging, VC would be the one soaring. "Present" time would be this upcoming season, right, not the seasons in the past? If that's the case, we don't know what is going to happen, since we haven't even started training camp yet.



> Originally posted by <b>shazha</b>!
> If both teams were healthy seriuosly i really think orlando would come out on top. especially with hill healthy.


So a healthy Grant Hill makes you one of the top teams in the East, but a healthy Vince Carter can't elevate us past a 7th seed? Check that argument. If Hill can return from injury and boost his team, why shouldn't Vince. And with that argument, we could say if Olajuwon was healthy, he would give us a dominant centre, and we could be the top seed, too. Let's try to focus on what you consider "*Fact*", which is that Vince and T-Mac are the only ones of those four who will be playing this season.


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>shazha</b>!
> 
> 
> hey budwiser heres a FACT for ya, vince leading his team through the second round of the playoffs is the PAST.


So what? Everything was in the past! Me typing the last word I typed before this one was in the past... what's your point?



> Thats a pre injury vince, unless u can see the future, u dont know what vince will return as. as far as we know the FACT is he is a has been. just another allan houston without his freak athletisism.


Vince has MUCH BETTER ballhandling, passing, rebounding and defensive skills than Houston. That comparison is terrible.

And no, I can't see the future. There's a possibility he might go down again, and I acknowledge that. However what he has shown us so far this summer shows he is more than ready to come back.



> Heres another FACT Team USA games dont mean squat against international competition. I know the talent is getting better but the NBA is a much rougher game, vinces durability will be tested.


Whoops, disregard my last post, it means nothing now....

No seriously, it does mean something. Those games and his dunks mean he has his athleticism back. And his jumper too... what about leading the team in FG%? If it's such a cakewalk for everyone then how come someone like Duncan didn't lead the team?

And as for being much rougher in the NBA, you must not have seen any clips from the qualifiers... the refs let anything fly, players got hacked all the time and no calls, and remember those fights? I agree with you that it is more physical in the NBA, with all that said... but it wasn't like they were playing against some HS team.

One more point, Vince has been working with personal trainers all summer long.



> FACT is vince is no good to his team being injured. If raptors fans are gonna use their injury excuse for not making the playoffs, then magic fans can say that they didnt win the CHAMPIONSHIP because grant hill was injured.


Obviously he's no good to the team when he's injured. But when he's healthy the team is a playoff team... that's why Raptor fans say it. ANd because when he was healthy, he led them to the playoffs. You can't say the same about Grant Hill, because he never led the Magic to the championship. We don't know, if he would have led them to the championship if he was healthy, because he hadn't done it before. That's not a good comparison.



> FACT is T-Mac at "present" time is doing more than Vince. If both teams were healthy seriuosly i really think orlando would come out on top. especially with hill healthy.


With Hill healthy yeah they would. Without him, I don't see it. YES T-Mac is better than Vince right now. You couldn't be more right. But as a team, the Raptors are better.


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

oh yay, another TO vs ORL thread


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## MadFishX (Jun 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>murdarous</b>!
> oh yay, another TO vs ORL thread



i told u this is gon become a sticky..jus wait n see:laugh:


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>MadFishX</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> i told u this is gon become a sticky..jus wait n see:laugh:




:no:


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## MadFishX (Jun 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>murdarous</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...





:yes:


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## TyGuy (Apr 19, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>MadFishX</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I like how you picked and chose stats from different years. Lets see we will take his freethrow percentage from two years ago and then we will take his field goal percentage from last year. If your going to compare stats use all the stats from one season not from various seasons.


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## The MAgiC (Aug 3, 2003)

And Toronto fans actually wonder why they get treated like the red-headed step children of the NBA.....

BTW, I was using population stats because we were comparing Toronto's (the MUCH bigger city) better attendance to Orlando's. Orlando is the better team, whether you want to accept it or not, it's the truth. Comparing Orlando's attendance to a better team with better attendance isn't the same thing as comparing them to a worse team with better attendance. It's a given that Toronto's attendance will be better because of the size of the city, whether they're better or not. Even though Sacramento is slightly larger than Orlando, their team being good is a bigger part of why they have good attendance.


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>The MAgiC</b>!
> And Toronto fans actually wonder why they get treated like the red-headed step children of the NBA.....


We do?



> BTW, I was using population stats because we were comparing Toronto's (the MUCH bigger city) better attendance to Orlando's. Orlando is the better team, whether you want to accept it or not, it's the truth. Comparing Orlando's attendance to a better team with better attendance isn't the same thing as comparing them to a worse team with better attendance. It's a given that Toronto's attendance will be better because of the size of the city, whether they're better or not. Even though Sacramento is slightly larger than Orlando, their team being good is a bigger part of why they have good attendance.


So you used city populations because you couldn't find any other reason why we have better attendance than you guys, even though we had a worse record last season. It JUST COULDN'T BE that Toronto fans support the Raptors more than Orlando fans support the Magic? Nope, after all we're just red-headed whiteboys who play hockey, right?

City size and wins don't tell the whole story. Look at New Jersey, who play (practically) in a city whose population is more than three times Toronto's, and won 25 more games than the Raps last season, and don't have as good attendance as the Raptors. How could you explain that? By the logic you used for comparing Toronto and Orlando, it doesn't make sense.


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## MadFishX (Jun 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>TyGuy</b>!
> 
> I like how you picked and chose stats from different years. Lets see we will take his freethrow percentage from two years ago and then we will take his field goal percentage from last year. If your going to compare stats use all the stats from one season not from various seasons.


wtf are u talkin bout?


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## Dathomieyouhate (Jun 21, 2003)

> So you used city populations because you couldn't find any other reason why we have better attendance than you guys, even though we had a worse record last season. It JUST COULDN'T BE that Toronto fans support the Raptors more than Orlando fans support the Magic? Nope, after all we're just red-headed whiteboys who play hockey, right?
> 
> City size and wins don't tell the whole story. Look at New Jersey, who play (practically) in a city whose population is more than three times Toronto's, and won 25 more games than the Raps last season, and don't have as good attendance as the Raptors. How could you explain that? By the logic you used for comparing Toronto and Orlando, it doesn't make sense.


maybe orlando fans are too busy playing golf and riding tea cups in disney land to watch the magic get taken out of the first round every year.. lol


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## The MAgiC (Aug 3, 2003)

I can always count on you to make a useless post just to try to degrade fans of a better team than yours. It's ok, I understand your jealousy. I don't like golf. Disneyland is in California....

And I feel sorry for anyone who can't tell the difference between New Jersey and New York. It's called geography people, learn it.


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>The MAgiC</b>!
> And I feel sorry for anyone who can't tell the difference between New Jersey and New York. It's called geography people, learn it.


And I feel sorry for anyone who can't read. I said <b>practically</b>. By the way, a lot of Nets fans reside in NYC... just look at the Nets board, and the cities are very close to eachother. Therefore, the METRO AREA, which you use yourself, is over 3 times the population of Toronto's metro area. It's called common sense, learn it.


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## TyGuy (Apr 19, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>MadFishX</b>!
> 
> 
> wtf are u talkin bout?


You took stats from various season from mcgrady. You didnt pick a single season or just use career numbers.


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## TyGuy (Apr 19, 2003)

By the way regardless of the kings having a good team attendance has always been strong in Sacramento.


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## MadFishX (Jun 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>TyGuy</b>!
> You took stats from various season from mcgrady. You didnt pick a single season or just use career numbers.


ma bad,, iz 79.3% , styll, iz below carter's


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

it's funny how that Magic fanboy compares both teams when our team was riddled with injuries. 

:laugh:

oh look at us, we have no intelligence about NBA whatsoever. all we do is pipedream and talk bout hockey. 

:laugh:


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## Dathomieyouhate (Jun 21, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>The MAgiC</b>!
> I can always count on you to make a useless post just to try to degrade fans of a better tham than yours. It's ok, I understand your jealousy. I don't like golf. Disneyland is in California....


ya right a better team.. THAT'S why the PLAY THE GAMES! we'll see who's better when they play each other.


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>The MAgiC</b>!
> I can always count on you to make a useless post just to try to degrade fans of a better tham than yours. It's ok, I understand your jealousy. I don't like golf. Disneyland is in California....
> 
> And I feel sorry for anyone who can't tell the difference between New Jersey and New York. It's called geography people, learn it.


hold up, you're telling him he makes useless posts? :laugh:

and if you can't tell the similarities between NJ and NY, i pity you. AND WE LIVE IN CANADA


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## ballocks (May 15, 2003)

...i had a dream last night that we got the third pick...


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## -inVINCEible- (Jul 22, 2002)

that magic fan got owned.....I bet he doesnt have the nuts to come back

he just shouldnt try anymore. It's getting too embarrassing for him


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## Dathomieyouhate (Jun 21, 2003)

i hope he comes back.. so bud can put him in his place again.


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## The MAgiC (Aug 3, 2003)

You jokers are hilarious. I never knew they had computers at daycare. 

Injuries or not, YOU STILL SUCK. Almost as much as that joke of a sport hockey. :laugh: The first step towards recovery is acceptance of the problem. And the problem is you sucking. :laugh:


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## Dathomieyouhate (Jun 21, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>The MAgiC</b>!
> You jokers are hilarious. I never knew they had computers at daycare.
> 
> Injuries or not, YOU STILL SUCK. Almost as much as that joke of a sport hockey. :laugh: The first step towards recovery is acceptance of the problem. And the problem is you sucking. :laugh:



kids these days...


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## Ben1 (May 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>The MAgiC</b>!
> You jokers are hilarious. I never knew they had computers at daycare.
> 
> Injuries or not, YOU STILL SUCK. Almost as much as that joke of a sport hockey. :laugh: The first step towards recovery is acceptance of the problem. And the problem is you sucking. :laugh:


Riteee... :no:

Go away and post somewhere else if you don't have anything nice or constructive to say about the Raptors...


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## TheRifleman (May 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>The MAgiC</b>!
> You jokers are hilarious. I never knew they had computers at daycare.
> 
> Injuries or not, YOU STILL SUCK. Almost as much as that joke of a sport hockey. :laugh: The first step towards recovery is acceptance of the problem. And the problem is you sucking. :laugh:


I would suggest - <b> strongly suggest</b>- that you stay away from the Raptor forum until all of you can "discuss" topics without resorting to childish arguments.


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