# As a Kansas Fan...



## goNBAjayhawks (May 3, 2003)

I didnt want this to happen, but he deserved to get one finally and instead of resenting him for leaving or finally not choking i just feel sorry for the long list of players at KU who were considered that year's "North Carolina" and he came up empty. Pierce, Lafrentz, Vaughn, Pollard, Thomas, Robertson, Earl, Gregory, Boschee, Gooden, Hinrich, Collison, Miles, Langford, Simien.


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## KJay (Sep 22, 2002)

you know, I didn't know how I'd feel once Roy won it. But I'm happy for him, Roy is a good guy (I've met him) and I want him to do very well in whatever he does in life, unless it's against KU, and in that I want him to lose historically.


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## Im The One (Sep 1, 2002)

This just goes to prove what I said earlier it wasnt his fault he couldnt win it all, it was Kansas' fault. That loss you had to Bucknell just verifies that. If Roy would of came to his senses earlier and came back home he'd probably have more than just one right now.


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## On Thre3 (Nov 26, 2003)

Im The One said:


> This just goes to prove what I said earlier it wasnt his fault he couldnt win it all, it was Kansas' fault. That loss you had to Bucknell just verifies that. If Roy would of came to his senses earlier and came back home he'd probably have more than just one right now.


dont go saying things like that, cuz you're making other people think all carolina fans are like you. quit being so cocky.


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## KJay (Sep 22, 2002)

On Thre3 said:


> dont go saying things like that, cuz you're making other people think all carolina fans are like you. quit being so cocky.


 we just found the please no name-calling of the UNC fans.


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## On Thre3 (Nov 26, 2003)

KJay said:


> we just found the edit of the UNC fans.


are you reffering to me?


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## HeinzGuderian (Jun 29, 2004)

Im The One said:


> This just goes to prove what I said earlier it wasnt his fault he couldnt win it all, it was Kansas' fault. That loss you had to Bucknell just verifies that. If Roy would of came to his senses earlier and came back home he'd probably have more than just one right now.


Remove that av, edit.


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

I for one am happy for Roy. He deserved it. All the KU fans who were/are p*ssed that he left fail to seize a rational context of the whole shebang.

Good job, Roy. Way to shut up all the "he's a choker" sycophants.


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## KJay (Sep 22, 2002)

On Thre3 said:


> are you reffering to me?


 ah yeah


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## Im The One (Sep 1, 2002)

On Thre3 said:


> dont go saying things like that, cuz you're making other people think all carolina fans are like you. quit being so cocky.


Im not trying to be a jerk, far from it. But how do you explain a coach winning it within two years with one team but not being to win it after all those with another team, that had more than enough talent. Here's a hint it's not the coaches fault. There comes a point and time where the players have to take some responsibility.

It's kinda like Bill Belicheck when he was with the Browns. It wasnt his fault they lost because he was/is an excellent coach. Coaches cant go out there and make their players perform.

I'm just stating the facts, it's not my fault some of these guys cant handle it but it's the truth. Notice the only KU fans are the only ones complaining.* If you or anyone else has another way to explain it please do, I really want to hear what you have to say.*


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## KJay (Sep 22, 2002)

hey, it's not the coaches fault, I'm not saying that, KU has had some dolts, just don't come out and say it the way he did.


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## On Thre3 (Nov 26, 2003)

Im The One said:


> Im not trying to be a jerk, far from it. But how do you explain a coach winning it within two years with one team but not being to win it after all those with another team, that had more than enough talent. Here's a hint it's not the coaches fault. There comes a point and time where the players have to take some responsibility.
> 
> It's kinda like Bill Belicheck when he was with the Browns. It wasnt his fault they lost because he was/is an excellent coach. Coaches cant go out there and make their players perform.
> 
> I'm just stating the facts, it's not my fault some of these guys cant handle it but it's the truth. Notice the only KU fans are the only ones complaining.* If you or anyone else has another way to explain it please do, I really want to hear what you have to say.*


i thought it was somthing dumb to say because i dont see how Kansas could be the cause of him not winning the NC. Kansas losing to bucknell has nothing to do with roy, its a diffrent squad.


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

Im The One said:


> Im not trying to be a jerk, far from it. But how do you explain a coach winning it within two years with one team but not being to win it after all those with another team, that had more than enough talent.


Big tournament variables that many people naively ignore: matchups drawn, health and luck.



> Here's a hint it's not the coaches fault. There comes a point and time where the players have to take some responsibility.


How did Duke not win it all in 1990 with Christian Laettner _and_ Bobby Hurley both on the roster? What about in '99, when Coach K had Elton Brand, Shane Battier, Corey Maggette, Trajan Langdon and Chris Carrawell? What about the UNC teams with Vince Carter, Brendan Haywood, Shammond Williams, Ed Cota and Antawn Jamison? How long did it take Dean to win his first championship?



> It's kinda like Bill Belicheck when he was with the Browns. It wasnt his fault they lost because he was/is an excellent coach. Coaches cant go out there and make their players perform.


You're saying Roy didn't have much to work with, or that his players were overrated? Paul Pierce, Raef LaFrentz, Jacque Vaughn, Billy Thomas, Scot Pollard, Greg Ostertag, Drew Gooden, Kirk Hinrich, Nick Collison...yeah. Chopped liver.



> Notice the only KU fans are the only ones complaining.


Really?



> * If you or anyone else has another way to explain it please do, I really want to hear what you have to say.*


You're welcome.


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## Big_CKansas (Jul 16, 2002)

I have only had one bad thing to say about Roy' tenure at Kansas and that was his recruiting ways. And I no a lot of people will say it was because he was at Kansas but a lot of it had to do with the fact that he wouldn't recruit anybody East of the Mississippi that Dean was interested in.

I loved his tenure at Kansas and I only hope Self can repeat what Roy did and hopefully surpass it.

I for one was rooting against Roy but that was only because I wanted Kansas to win a championship before he did. After North Carolina won I was extremely happy for Roy and his players after what they had to go through the last 3-4 years.


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## Im The One (Sep 1, 2002)

On Thre3 said:


> i thought it was somthing dumb to say because i dont see how Kansas could be the cause of him not winning the NC. Kansas losing to bucknell has nothing to do with roy, its a diffrent squad.


That loss just goes to prove it wasnt Roy's fault he didnt win when he was there. No way they should of lost to Bucknell that was all on the players. The went out they and acted like they didnt care, even after they lost. I'm not just talking about that loss. It's a reference to all those big game loses he's had. What about that lost to Syracuse when the players went out there and acted like they didnt even no they were in a N.C game. That just goes to prove it was never Roy's fault. A coach cant make you go out there a give a damn.


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## Gtown07 (Dec 10, 2003)

i'mtheone= This argument is by far the edit thing I have ever heard on these boards. A coach's job IS to motivate. Roy Williams losses over the years to inferior teams were just as must his fault as they are the reason his team wins big games (ie UNC this year). Kansas' team shouldn't have lost to Bucknell just like Vaughn's team shouldnt have lost u of a, and his other teams shouldnt have lost. UNC has had great teams go down early too. It happens. This year's kansas wasn't as good as advertised Giddens became a b*tch, and they lost their center and never found a true replacement. However Kansas will be back and they will eventually get the job done.

This year's UNC had 5 very solid NBA players. Name another team with 4 maybe 5 first rounders for that yrs upcoming draft all on the same team. And the runner up for DPOY who probably won't be drafted. It just doesnt happen. We have to give some credit to Doherty on this. Maybe he's not a great coach, we can't be sure of that but he definetly recruited very well for the Tar Heels.


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## apelman42 (Apr 8, 2005)

Im The One said:


> That loss just goes to prove it wasnt Roy's fault he didnt win when he was there. No way they should of lost to Bucknell that was all on the players. The went out they and acted like they didnt care, even after they lost. I'm not just talking about that loss. It's a reference to all those big game loses he's had. What about that lost to Syracuse when the players went out there and acted like they didnt even no they were in a N.C game. That just goes to prove it was never Roy's fault. A coach cant make you go out there a give a damn.


Kansas played a hell of a game against Syracuse, this argument is ridiculous.


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## vadimivich (Mar 29, 2004)

I'm The One has passed zagsfan20 as the biggest homer edit on this board. That alone is a huge upset.


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## KJay (Sep 22, 2002)

meh, it's not all ROy's fault for the losses. Sometimes inferior teams play bigger than they are


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## On Thre3 (Nov 26, 2003)

KJay said:


> meh, it's not all ROy's fault for the losses. Sometimes inferior teams play bigger than they are


im curious, why did you call me a jerk? i was basiccly defending kansas and that was the thanks i get. Well also because ive seen lately since unc won the n.c, that many people think tar heel fans are too cocky and ignorant.


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

What happens if:

1. Gerry McNamara doesn't have the game of his life against KU in the title game?
2. KU hits a mere 50% of its free throws that game?
3. Wayne Simien is on the court instead of in a suit on the sidelines during that game?

The answer to one, the other, the other, or all three combined is the same.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

VincentVega said:


> What happens if:
> 
> 1. Gerry McNamara doesn't have the game of his life against KU in the title game?
> 2. KU hits a mere 50% of its free throws that game?
> ...


1. What if Carmelo does not reinjure his back in the first half, and is rendered to a shell of himself in the second half.

2. What if SU hits FT's at more then an abysmal rate as well (not as abysmal as Kansas)

3. What if SU does not play its sloppiest half of the year in the second half.

....


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## Im The One (Sep 1, 2002)

VincentVega said:


> What happens if:
> 
> 1. Gerry McNamara doesn't have the game of his life against KU in the title game?
> 2. KU hits a mere 50% of its free throws that game?
> ...


That's exactly my point. Is it the coaches fault the players dont show up for the game? UNC was able to finish the job plain and simple, excuse me for stating the facts. That happened over and over agian during Roy's tenure at Kansas. If he came here earlier not telling how many chapionships he'd have.


Ever since we've won the championship hatred for the heels has been of the charts.


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## deranged40 (Jul 18, 2002)

Im The One said:


> Ever since we've won the championship hatred for the heels has been of the charts.


And I wonder if that has to do with idiotic posts like the ones you're making on this thread?


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

JuniorNoboa said:


> 1. What if Carmelo does not reinjure his back in the first half, and is rendered to a shell of himself in the second half.


Carmelo was hurt so bad he only scored 20 points, pulled down 10 boards and dished out 7 assists...in 37 minutes (most on his team). 



> 2. What if SU hits FT's at more then an abysmal rate as well (not as abysmal as Kansas)


KU's 18 missed FT's is an NCAA title game record. If both KU and Syracuse hit 70% of their free throws, KU wins by 2 points.



> 3. What if SU does not play its sloppiest half of the year in the second half.
> 
> ....


Syracuse produced the single best offensive opening half in NCAA championship game history. That said, the two halves kind of offset each other -- although holding KU to 36 second half points (well below its average) while only scoring 8 fewer points during the same timeframe doesn't exactly qualify as having played any sloppier than, say, the SU vs. UCONN game played three weeks earlier in which SU was down by 19 with 10:00 left in the second half and ended up losing by 13. ('Cuse had its worst-shooting night of the season that night as well, hitting 29 percent [23-of-80] from the field and 2-18 from three).


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## Im The One (Sep 1, 2002)

deranged40 said:


> And I wonder if that has to do with idiotic posts like the ones you're making on this thread?


You have a Hinrich Avatar. He plays for Chicago which is in Illinois(Illini),he went to Kansas and he also plays with a bunch of Duke players....... Needles to say he'll never win anything in the NBA.


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## kansasalumn (Jun 9, 2002)

Im The One said:


> That's exactly my point. Is it the coaches fault the players dont show up for the game? UNC was able to finish the job plain and simple excuse me for stating the facts. That happened over and over agian during Roy's tenure at Kansas. If he came earlier not telling how many chapionships he'd have.
> 
> 
> Ever since we've won the championship hatred for the heels has been of the charts.


I listen to a NC radio station for a couple days after the championship online, and I heard that many UNC fans are pissed at Roy Williams for continue to talka bout Kansas. KU fans her are getting tired to about it too. Maybe this will close the book. Bill Self said in public that he cut ties with Illinois during the season.

Enough with the whole UNC/KU/Roy Williams story. He won. I am glad he won. Now we can get this whole thing done over with. He can continue to build UNC history and tradition. Bill Self can do the same with Kansas. UNC got the coach he wanted. Kansas got the hottest best coach with Bill Self. Also, I am getting tired of some KU fans saying that Bill Self will never be the coach as good as Roy,a nd already calling for his head. Ohh my goodness. Self had a team in Illinois, if teams other than Kansas (UNC, UK, or DUKE), he would not leave Illinois for any school. And maybe Illinois would be the team to win this year (He would had Charlie Villianova on his team)


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

Im The One said:


> That's exactly my point. Is it the coaches fault the players dont show up for the game?


The players showed up for the game (all but Simien, who was in a cast). A couple of them just couldn't buy a free throw. Roy did everything well enough to win -- prepare, motivate, coach...problem is, Boeheim did too.


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

Im The One said:


> You have a Hinrich Avatar. He plays for Chicago which is in Illinois(Illini),he went to Kansas and he also plays with a bunch of Duke players....... Needles to say he'll never win anything in the NBA.


How many years did it take Dean Smith to win the NCAA title?


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

VincentVega said:


> Carmelo was hurt so bad he only scored 20 points, pulled down 10 boards and dished out 7 assists...in 37 minutes (most on his team).


Carmelo was obviously hurt in the second half. It only takes your eyes to see that. And of course the scoresheet sipported it as well .....

First Half : 12 Pts, 7 Asts, 5 rebs
Second Half: 8 Pts, 0 Asts, 5 rebs

Of course he was going to play whether he was hurt or not. 




> KU's 18 missed FT's is an NCAA title game record. If both KU and Syracuse hit 70% of their free throws, KU wins by 2 points.


It's still a one possession game (it still would have been close) and obviously if both teams hit some FT's things play out alot differently.

I just find it interesting that some Kansas fans say that if Kansas hits more FT's they win, but then don't really want to give credit / discredit to SU's better but still bad FT shooting.



> Syracuse produced the single best offensive opening half in NCAA championship game history. That said, the two halves kind of offset each other -- although holding KU to 36 second half points (well below its average) while only scoring 8 fewer points during the same timeframe doesn't exactly qualify as having played any sloppier than, say, the SU vs. UCONN game played three weeks earlier in which SU was down by 19 with 10:00 left in the second half and ended up losing by 13. ('Cuse had its worst-shooting night of the season that night as well, hitting 29 percent [23-of-80] from the field and 2-18 from three).


Your right about the first half. That was amazing.

Sloppy as in "being dumb with the ball" not poor shooting.

Do you remember both games. Did you see both games. ARe you only making an assessment of the scoresheet? They were not that sloppy against UConn, just did not match up welll athletically against that team and could not get good looks against that defence.



I'm just tired of the assessment that KU was the better team - basically your assuming that SU played well over their head, and Kansas played way under their capabilities.. Granted, they were the better team if Wayne Simien was healthy. No doubt about that.

But without Simien... The teams are even. Kansas was a 2 seed, SU was a 3 seed, that was an upswing, and should have been a 2 seed instead of Florida. 

They beat Oklahoma and Texas, teams that were ranked higher then the Kansas team without Simien. without Simien, Syracuse and Kansas were equals that season.

The only if that has validty is Simien.


Anyway, as to the point of this thread, those NC fans discrediting Kansas, I have absolutely no clue what these UNC fans are talking about.

I am not bashing the entire UNC fanbase. There are two ignorant idiots who represent UNC on these board. They know who they are.


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## KJay (Sep 22, 2002)

Im The One said:


> You have a Hinrich Avatar. He plays for Chicago which is in Illinois(Illini),he went to Kansas and he also plays with a bunch of Duke players....... Needles to say he'll never win anything in the NBA.


 ah and *please no name calling* right.


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

JuniorNoboa said:


> Carmelo was obviously hurt in the second half. It only takes your eyes to see that. And of course the scoresheet sipported it as well .....
> 
> First Half : 12 Pts, 7 Asts, 5 rebs
> Second Half: 8 Pts, 0 Asts, 5 rebs


So he made two more shots in the second half than he did the first half. Not a big difference. Especially when you consider the fact that the game slowed down considerably in the second half and the D tightened up on him. Assists can be partly (or largely, however you want to look at it) attributed to the fact that McNamara and Duany went off in the first and then went silent in the second.



> I think injuries included, the two teams were about equal.
> 
> Granted, they were the better team if Wayne Simien was healthy. No doubt about that.
> 
> But without Simien... The teams are even. Kansas was a 2 seed, SU was a 3 seed, that was an upswing, and should have been a 2 seed instead of Florida.


Agreed.


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