# Bulls Players already slacking on off-season workouts!



## Kramer (Jul 5, 2002)

So, which Bulls started to work out on time this summer??

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune...bulls,1,6642420.story?coll=cs-bulls-headlines




> In an interview late in the regular season and in postseason meetings with players on April 16, Paxson made it clear that he expected players to take two weeks off and then be working out at the Berto Center in early May. *Only Ronald Dupree, Linton Johnson, Jannero Pargo and Kendall Gill, who isn't expected to return, showed up on Monday.*


Tyson's supposed to show up tomorrow and Jamal's supposedly doing "minor" workouts in Seattle. I'm already sick of this. I know it doesn't seem like a big deal that the 3C's weren't at the Berto on the VERY first day. I would normally say "who cares?". Yet, somehow LJ, Dupree, Pargo and Gill were able to make it. I think it clearly shows which of our players are really dedicated to getting better. For anyone who wants to think that one day doesn't mean anything, I think it's just symbolic of where the players are mentally: are you really willing to sacrifice for the team or will it be business as usual. 

If you all remember, last summer we had these SAME debates, about who was or was not working out at the Berto. Half said it was no big deal cuz lots of nba players do it, the other half was upset that the players weren't putting forth more effort. I think this year has shown which side was right. Like I said, one day doesn't mean a lot on its own, but what would you have done if you just embarrassed yourself for a year, people questioned your work ethic, and management demanded better this summer?!? It looks like not much will be different this year (until half our roster gets traded).


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

Ehh...let's chill out...

I just checked the calendar it's STILL early May...


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## RetroDreams (Jun 9, 2002)

:yawn:


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## Kramer (Jul 5, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>arenas809</b>!
> Ehh...let's chill out...
> 
> I just checked the calendar it's STILL early May...


Like I said, under other circumstances I'd be in total agreement. Your argument was used by people last year in June... and then in July. When do you think they should show up at the Berto? All I'm saying is our scrubs were able to make it, so why can't the players with talent? Pax makes a good point that the play-off teams are STILL playing and may be playing for another month. It's just another month that our underachievers will fall behind.


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## TRUTHHURTS (Mar 1, 2003)

Where is Pip ? :laugh: 

Where is Kirk ?  

NO team in the nba has players returning to start working out before the FINALS have even started it just doesnt happen .

At this point I wouldnt be suprised if the 3c's are looking at the door anyway .Getting traded from the worst team in the league is NOT a bad thing.


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## RetroDreams (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Kramer</b>!
> 
> Like I said, under other circumstances I'd be in total agreement. Your argument was used by people last year in June... and then in July. When do you think they should show up at the Berto? All I'm saying is our scrubs were able to make it, so why can't the players with talent? Pax makes a good point that the play-off teams are STILL playing and may be playing for another month. It's just another month that our underachievers will fall behind.


I look at it this way. All four of those individuals that showed up are free agents and fighting to stay in league. Of course they were going to be there.

Do you find it odd that EVERYONE else wasn't there? The 2 week date hit today (as exit meetings were on the 17th and 18th, I think) so I am not surprised they are not there. 

Now, if it hits late May, I'd be concerned.


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## Kramer (Jul 5, 2002)

I'm basically to a point where I believe the 3C's need to go the extra mile to prove they are serious about working harder this year. I know Pip worked hard in the past and Hinrich hasn't given me a reason to doubt him yet. The future of the franchise supposedly rests in the hands of the 3C's, yet they've consistently been slackers in the workout department. Admittedly, the sky is not falling... I get that. But, I personally am taking this as a sign of things to come. I hope they prove me wrong. 

Just imagine if they HAD all shown up on Monday. How would you feel about them, the summer, and the team's future? I just want to feel like that for ONCE... that's all.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

I'm with Kramer on this one.

With all the emphasis Pax has put on professionalism and giving everything you can, I don't see how one can look at this and not think it's kind of a slap in the face to him.

It's Pax saying this summer is going to be different and special, and our players saying it's business as usual. It's one of those things that is easy to ignore if you want to ignore it, but it's the kind of thing that's telling to me. 

---------

I also thought the aside about Paxson and Skiles firing the catering service that served players meals at the Berto Center was not very heartening. Like the players showing up, it's moves like this that speak to peoples' mindsets, and I don't like what I see at all.

That was a Paul Brown move, not a Mark Cuban move.


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## LoaKhoet (Aug 20, 2002)

Come on! This is early May. They just worked 6 straight months. Give these players a break! These are millionaires. They need to have sometime to spend their money. 

If they weren't there in June then i would worry. As far as now, it shoudlnt' be a concern.


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## Kismet (Mar 1, 2003)

Well, obviously, KC Johnson's making off season conditioning a local media issue. In other words, _Big Brother's Watching!_

I like it. I like the fact that the media is letting the players know that their attendance at Berto is going to be monitored and reported on to the public. Good for KC.

Having said that, I'd still give most of the players a week or so before drawing any conclusions.


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## RetroDreams (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Kramer</b>!
> I'm basically to a point where I believe the 3C's need to go the extra mile to prove they are serious about working harder this year. I know Pip worked hard in the past and Hinrich hasn't given me a reason to doubt him yet. The future of the franchise supposedly rests in the hands of the 3C's, yet they've consistently been slackers in the workout department. Admittedly, the sky is not falling... I get that. But, I personally am taking this as a sign of things to come. I hope they prove me wrong.
> 
> Just imagine if they HAD all shown up on Monday. How would you feel about them, the summer, and the team's future? I just want to feel like that for ONCE... that's all.


No offense, but your prose poses a nice double standard. You have now twice mentioned "the 3 Cs" but you have not mentioned anyone else. Why is there a double standard for Hinrich, JYD and the rest of the cronies?


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## Bullwhip (Feb 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>LoaKhoet</b>!
> Come on! This is early May. They just worked 6 straight months. Give these players a break! These are millionaires. They need to have sometime to spend their money.
> 
> If they weren't there in June then i would worry. As far as now, it shoudlnt' be a concern.


Work six straight months? Uh, hel-LOH? Most of us work 12 months a year. And for the record, WORKING OUT isn't exactly the same thing as WORK. I work out 3 days a week pretty rigorously AFTER WORK.

The LEAST these BUMS can do is ACT LIKE THEY GIVE A DAMN.

I'm DONE with these losers until I see a turn around in attitude.

SIGNING OFF, JERK-OFFS (our bum players I mean):grinning:


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## Showtyme (Jun 24, 2002)

Right. They don't have to be working out like nuts from the get-go.

Mikedc's post was very insightful. I also agree; if Pax says be there in two weeks, be there in two weeks. It's a minimum level of obedience to your high boss, and it's not like it would really be all that bad. And honestly, it's not like you couldn't just slack off later. As a person who is cursed with both being a slacker and yet being ridiculously loyal to commitment (sad story, huh), I think that if I were in their shoes, as a show of good faith, I would have just shown up.

If Tyson's in the gym tomorrow pumping the iron and working on a J, then hey that's great.

But I will definitely need to see it to believe it.

I'm convinced, like everyone else here, that these guys would probably be very successful if they go elsewhere. But what if they aren't? The one I see remaining most the same, sadly, is Eddy Curry. If we traded him to a team like, say, Milwaukee... would he really blow up? That's a "winning" environment with an experienced coach and a good cast around him; what if it were the same old 15 and 6 with occasional great games and a lot of bad ones? 

Then wouldn't it be sad that the Bulls could say that they let these guys walk, or better yet, got talent out of the deal?

What I'm saying is this: yes, the people in the gym today were mostly the people who need to earn their jobs. 

But it's my impression that the three C's also need to earn their jobs. We're the worst team in the league; it should scare them that the worst team in the league doesn't think they are good enough, because... what if the worst team in the league is right?


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## Jim Ian (Aug 6, 2002)

I'm with Retro on this one.

All I see in this thread is "3C's" "3C's" "3C's" "3C's". Way I see it, there are 8 other players collecting paychecks that aren't there either.

If JYD, Davis and ERob were there and Chandler and Hinrich weren't, I'd be worried. Where's the great Scottie? He's collecing a paycheck. 

But the only players there are scrubs who shouldn't even be in the NBA? And to add to it... The 2nd round JUST started today.

Man... Call in the presses on this one... :laugh:


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## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

Isn't it in the CBA that the players don't have to work out in the offseason and Pax can't force anyone to do anything during this time? He says early may, it's only a couple days into it.

I would hate to see these guys just mess around and do things that are counter-productive though. I want a bootcamp mentality from the players and coaches.


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## The 6ft Hurdle (Jan 25, 2003)

This stupidity manifested in asking them to be back at the Berto in 2 weeks Pax is something merely symbolic for the "championship mindset" rather than of any actual use to our players. They've probably learned the "championship mindset" for years on end, and we still can't even get into the playoffs. As for any actual use, I assume they're doing nothing unique to make these guys want to come back other than more mindless workouts.

In the short time he's been here, it seems like Pax has proven that he can't work with anything that isn't his product. When he finally does get all his products, I think we are only at best a 41-41 borderline playoff team or at best maybe even a Detroit-like team.


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## Kramer (Jul 5, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>RetroDreams</b>!
> 
> 
> No offense, but your prose poses a nice double standard. You have now twice mentioned "the 3 Cs" but you have not mentioned anyone else. Why is there a double standard for Hinrich, JYD and the rest of the cronies?


I DO have a double-standard when it comes to the 3C's. No doubt about it. However, I didn't have a double-standard their rookie year. I didn't have one last year. I gave them 2 chances in the past and they proved nothing. You've heard of the phrase "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."? Well, I'm not going to let them fool me a third time. If Hinrich never reports to the Berto this summer, then I'll be on his a** next year, same with the other players you mentioned. I guess I could add Erob to my double-standard list, but that would basically be a waste of typing. 

Seriously though.. just imagine if they all had shown up on Monday. Take one minute to think what that would've been like and if that would've made you feel like this team is taking on a winning attitude. They would've sent a great message to everyone in the organization and to the fans... and I would've started to believe again. 

Anyway... as I said, the sky hasn't officially fallen yet. If the 3C's arrive at the Berto during the next week or two, I'll be ok I suppose. I am just waiting for them to prove to me that this year will be different. As of now, I'm still waiting...


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## chifaninca (May 28, 2002)

Wow, I know that even you guys must get a week or two of vacation each year.

Come on. Be realistic. I'll be happy if they are all there working out together by th elast week in May. Take some time to clear your head from the tragedy that was last year and come back dedicated.

BTW - Don't blame Crawford for not being at any workouts. Blame Paxson. Paxson didn't make a decision so now Crawford must go and make team visits. That's business. SO the first idiot, yes idiot, who says Crawford shouldn't be missing workouts to go and visit other teams should call and thank Paxson for that one. 

Guys that should be there practicing together are:

Hinrich, Curry, Chandler, JYD, Davis, Pargo, Austin, Robinson and our draft picks once the draft is over. 

The rest are bonuses: Crawford, Johnson, Dupree, Pippen since they have no idea where they will be next year.


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## sTiLLaFaN42 (Sep 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Kramer</b>!Seriously though.. just imagine if they all had shown up on Monday. Take one minute to think what that would've been like and if that would've made you feel like this team is taking on a winning attitude. They would've sent a great message to everyone in the organization and to the fans... and I would've started to believe again.


That would be nice, wouldn't it. If that were to happen, it would just about erase all the pain and frustration I've experienced as a Bulls fan the past year.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>sTiLLaFaN42</b>!
> 
> 
> That would be nice, wouldn't it. If that were to happen, it would just about erase all the pain and frustration I've experienced as a Bulls fan the past year.


Your frustration isn't all the players' fault...

Let's hope for a better year, and I don't expect much so winning or playoffs is not what I think aiming for as "better".


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## sTiLLaFaN42 (Sep 1, 2002)

Would you guys agree that one of the biggest reasons for the Bulls horrible season is a *fixable* problem with an *internal solution*? The problem I'm refering to, of course, is off-season conditioning. 

It's really easy to bash on our players and managerial/coaching decisions when talking about the failure that was the 03/04 season. However, I really believe that we are underestimating the effects of injuries. If it weren't for Paxson's "No Excuses" slogan, maybe we would've been more understanding as to why we had such a bad season. Meaning, there's reason to still believe in the players we have.

The injury that gets reffered to the least is Rose's hand injury. I don't think many of us gave Rose enough credit, or even acknowledged that his slow start was in fact due to his hand injury. I don't even think that any of us knew that it was offically a fractured hand, as it was later found out when Rose became a Raptor.

Think about if Rose was healthy, Hinrich wasn't sick, and Curry didn't have that injury at the start of training camp. There's little doubt in my mind that we would've gotten off to at least a .500 start instead of going 4-10. Cartwright wouldn't have been bashed on as much, and possibly been able to avoid his firing. This would've allowed the team to improve and gel as the season progressed. Instead, Paxson panicked and made not just one, but TWO MAJOR CHANGES. From there, the season just sort of went down the drain with the occasional glimmer of hope.

So what I'm saying is that health/injuries (a fixable problem) in the off season, something of which can be prevented or prepared for (an internal solution), was a bigger factor than we have realized because of the chain effect it caused towards a failure of a season.


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## Chi_Lunatic (Aug 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Bullwhip</b>!
> 
> 
> The LEAST these BUMS can do is ACT LIKE THEY GIVE A DAMN.
> ...


you are not the bulls coach, hell u don't even work for the organization. you're a fan, play your position.

you think they care if you're DUN with them? please

the team's been playing ball alll year and u want them to start workin' out 2 weeks after their season ends. yea that's real smart


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

The magical summer of player improvement has begun. I'm underwhelmed.


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## Bullwhip (Feb 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Chi_Lunatic</b>!
> 
> 
> you are not the bulls coach, hell u don't even work for the organization. you're a fan, play your position.
> ...



And YOU sound real intelligent yourself :laugh: And if you think I'm the only one who's tired of these ambivalent mentalities then you're even dumber than you sound. Fact is, I'm a loyal fan who's watched this crap for years, even though they suck. But what makes me sick is their attitude. And what makes me even more sick is people with YOUR attitude. :soapbox:


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Why is this a 3 C's thing? Jamal doesn't have a problem with getting himself ready for the season. It's Fat Eddy and Porcelain Man Chandler that need to be out there working the most.


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## RetroDreams (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>futuristxen</b>!
> Why is this a 3 C's thing? Jamal doesn't have a problem with getting himself ready for the season. It's Fat Eddy and Porcelain Man Chandler that need to be out there working the most.


C'mon. Get outta here. Jamal is a waif by NBA shooting guard specs.


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## ViciousFlogging (Sep 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>chifaninca</b>!
> Wow, I know that even you guys must get a week or two of vacation each year.


they just had 2 weeks of vacation.

and call me crazy, but I think by most working people's standards, hanging out in Chicago all summer and setting aside 2 hours or so a day to lift and condition also sounds like vacation compared to, say, working 9-5 and THEN having to work out.

I'm not gonna panic about this yet, but it's still disappointing.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Chi_Lunatic</b>!
> 
> 
> the team's been playing ball alll year and u want them to start workin' out 2 weeks after their season ends.


Yes, I do. Not only do I want it, if the team wants to keep me as a fan, I expect it.


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## TRUTHHURTS (Mar 1, 2003)

Its early May !!! take your vacation ,get your summer plans in order and then come in ready to work the rest of the summer.

I dont believe anyone here really thinks than a Nba player is gonna take 2 weeks off and the start right back at it before the nba finals hace even started ?On the Bulls surely we dont think that AD (who has logged a ton of minutes for his age) and Kirk and Jamal who both played a huge amount of minutes for 5 straight months are not gonna need a lil longer to recharges their bodies . 

Jyd,Gill,Pip,Lynton,Dupree,Shirley,Pargo,Tyson, have all had ample vacation time as they spent long hours planted on the bench they shouldve never stopped practicing anyway :laugh:


The cycle of a Bulls fan = unrealistic expectations - disappointment -overreaction -regret - then wouldve,couldve,shouldve :no:


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## ViciousFlogging (Sep 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>TRUTHHURTS</b>!
> Its early May !!! take your vacation ,get your summer plans in order and then come in ready to work the rest of the summer.
> 
> I dont believe anyone here really thinks than a Nba player is gonna take 2 weeks off and the start right back at it before the nba finals hace even started ?On the Bulls surely we dont think that AD (who has logged a ton of minutes for his age) and Kirk and Jamal who both played a huge amount of minutes for 5 straight months are not gonna need a lil longer to recharges their bodies .


Like I said, they just HAD 2 weeks to be away from Chicago and do whatever they felt like. Sure, it's not the end of the world that they aren't in the Berto already. I'm not gonna call next season a wash because of it. There's still a whole summer for them to spend lifting and working out.

But I do remember being 21 and coming back to Chicago for a summer after college got out. I didn't do anything all summer except spend a couple hours, 4-5 days a week, working out. And it was still very much a vacation. I'm not asking these guys to do anything more than that at this point...I just don't want them to take so much time off that they end up spending too much valuable time getting back to the shape they had been in before vacation, which leaves precious little time to make real progress.

As of right now, this is all I would expect from them: Just a couple hours a day, consisting of lifting and a little running or other kind of conditioning. Then the rest of the day is theirs. As the summer goes on, I would hope and expect that they'd ratchet up the intensity of the workouts in order to build needed mass or attain a certain level of fitness.

edit: it's possible that they're doing that kind of stuff on their own, but I'd feel better about it if they were at the Berto, given how last summer went.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>RetroDreams</b>!
> 
> 
> C'mon. Get outta here. Jamal is a waif by NBA shooting guard specs.


But he's just fine by NBA point guard standards, which is what he was preparing for last season.

You can't really say he came into the year out of shape or not ready to play. He was ready to go in preseason. It was his teammates that didn't show up. His only injury problems came from landing on his kneck.

How many players worked harder than Jamal last offseason for the Bulls?

I just don't want to see him lumped in with Chandler and Curry, when with Hinrich, he's one of the only Bulls who played the whole season.

It's more like the 2 C's(Centers) and the two G's(Guards). It's the 2 C's who aren't pulling their weight. The 2 G's are keeping things proper.


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## Rodman (Feb 5, 2004)

I'm also pretty disappointed by the noshows. And I'm with Tom, I expect from our players that they are there to workout and earn their millions. Both Tyson and Eddy should be there, they were our major problems this season and they both need to be in shape for the first time in their careers! I'm a bit disappointed with Kirk as well, I thought he would be the first back at the Berto from all the talk he did. We'll see when they are all where they should be.
The Vets? Well I never was high on any of our vets so I'm not expecting a lot of them. AD could have at least shown up he lives in Chicago. 

The whole mindset stinks and I agree with Kramer that it would have been very positive when they all had shown commitment and be there. It's not that they can't take another week or two vacation later in the summer or so.


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## Kismet (Mar 1, 2003)

What I'd be concerned with is how much time each player can afford to take off before they lose _too much_ conditioning. It would be a shame to see each player spend most of the summer trying to get back to where they were at the end of the season instead of using the summer to surpass whatever shape they were in back in mid April. For most of the young players in particular it isn't about "maintaining." It's about "improving." It's about being much more than you were at any point previously. Hinrich, Crawford, Chandler and Curry all need to get physically stronger. All but Curry need to add bulk. Curry needs to stay lean. 

Adding moves, improving skills can come later during the offseason. But when it comes to conditioning and strength training anything more than a two to three week break will set you back considerably and force you to spend most of the summer working to regain what you've lost. That's not what this summer's about.

VF has it right. We're not talking about these guys living at Berto from sunrise to sunset. A couple of hours of conditioning and strength training daily is all thats necessary. The other 22 hours of each day is theirs to enjoy any way they want to.

In truth we can't assume one way or another that just because they haven't reported in yet that they're not doing anything. But the formal, specialized programs that have been designed specifically for each individual and that require professional monitoring have to begin very soon, I'd say within the next week or so.


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## RetroDreams (Jun 9, 2002)

How many of these guys do you think are in Chicago right now? Crawford was spotted at a Nuggets game and then back in Seattle. I can guarantee Hinrich is home with his folks, so on and so forth.

This isn't June or July when most camps really start, it is the beginning of FREAKING May. Most of these guys have public appearances, businesses and charity work that they do during the offseason as well. 

The season just ended. Not but two weeks ago they had their exit meetings. For Christ sake have some freakin' compassion. If it hits June 1st and they are not at the Berto, then I will raise an eyebrow.

And please, stop trying to compare an athlete's job to the everyday man... it isn't even in the same ballpark.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>RetroDreams</b>!
> How many of these guys do you think are in Chicago right now? Crawford was spotted at a Nuggets game and then back in Seattle. I can guarantee Hinrich is home with his folks, so on and so forth.
> 
> This isn't June or July when most camps really start, it is the beginning of FREAKING May. Most of these guys have public appearances, businesses and charity work that they do during the offseason as well.
> ...


You have a point. Do you think Pax's "take two weeks off and start working out at the Berto" was really a realistic expectation? I mean, seeing as how the only players who embraced it are the scrubs. Is two weeks really a reasonable vacation request for these players who don't even technically have to report to camp until what, October? I don't know, I know the kids have to work hard in the offseason but it just reaks of amateurism on Paxson's part to me.


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## RetroDreams (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ace20004u</b>!
> 
> 
> You have a point. Do you think Pax's "take two weeks off and start working out at the Berto" was really a realistic expectation? I mean, seeing as how the only players who embraced it are the scrubs. Is two weeks really a reasonable vacation request for these players who don't even technically have to report to camp until what, October? I don't know, I know the kids have to work hard in the offseason but it just reaks of amateurism on Paxson's part to me.


No, don't get me wrong, I think that our entire roster should be at the Berto working out this summer. All of the good teams have done it in the past. 

But reporting May 1st is just a bit extreme.


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>RetroDreams</b>!
> How many of these guys do you think are in Chicago right now? Crawford was spotted at a Nuggets game and then back in Seattle. I can guarantee Hinrich is home with his folks, so on and so forth.
> 
> This isn't June or July when most camps really start, it is the beginning of FREAKING May. Most of these guys have public appearances, businesses and charity work that they do during the offseason as well.
> ...


thank you retro...hey guys, step away from the keyboard, it is only May 4th. 

Hinrich is with his mom in Iowa. Said he'd be back _this week sometime_ to start working out. This was reported in the Trib story last week about him being named to the All-rookie team. He is the last one I would worry about. 

Chandler is hopefully eating like Eddy used to and Eddy is hopefully interviewing nutritionists. 

Jamal is doing the FA thing...

And they will ALL be held accountable if they don't show up to camp in shape, not just by you or me, but by Skiles and Pax. 

But the fact is - it is the first week of May...relax. If none of them have showed up by next week...then you can chew them out.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>mizenkay</b>!
> And they will ALL be held accountable if they don't show up to camp in shape, not just by you or me, but by Skiles and Pax.
> 
> But the fact is - it is the first week of May...relax. If none of them have showed up by next week...then you can chew them out.


But that's the point... Pax is the guy who set the expectation. It's not so much a matter of fans (or KC Johnson) unilaterally jumping on the bad the players boat, it's a matter of us observing what Paxson asked for and then observing what's actually happening.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>ace20004u</b>!
> 
> 
> You have a point. Do you think Pax's "take two weeks off and start working out at the Berto" was really a realistic expectation? I mean, seeing as how the only players who embraced it are the scrubs. Is two weeks really a reasonable vacation request for these players who don't even technically have to report to camp until what, October? I don't know, I know the kids have to work hard in the offseason but it just reaks of amateurism on Paxson's part to me.


I think the media is making a bigger deal then Pax is, all the guy was really hopping for but not enforcing was for these guys to come in early and work out, I understand that a 2 week vacation is not alot for these guys but common, these guys work less then you and me, they get paid about 10 times more then you and me, and if my job was just to come in and hang out with some buddys and work out i would not mind comming in early. I remember working for freaking 6.00 dollars and hour 5 days a week at a crappy restaurant for a year and not once was i allowed just 1 week of vacation.


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## RetroDreams (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mikedc</b>!
> 
> 
> But that's the point... Pax is the guy who set the expectation. It's not so much a matter of fans (or KC Johnson) unilaterally jumping on the bad the players boat, it's a matter of us observing what Paxson asked for and then observing what's actually happening.


And I'm not confident with the franchise being controlled by him, either... so I guess I just don't put much creedence in what he says or does until he proves himself.


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## ViciousFlogging (Sep 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>RetroDreams</b>!
> 
> 
> And please, stop trying to compare an athlete's job to the everyday man... it isn't even in the same ballpark.


yeah, I'd much rather have THEIR job than mine.

Let's see:
-play a game you love 
-make MILLIONS of dollars playing said game
-have legions of fans and hangers-on who worship you (well, that would be a negative to me because I hate excessive attention, but a lot of these guys soak it up)
-have Apr (or May if you're a playoff team) through October to yourself, away from the grind.

sounds like a really tough life. 

I know that playing ball as often and as intensely as these guys do takes a physical and mental toll. So does constant travel. But given the perks that they enjoy, I'd say it's more than a fair trade.

Expecting them to at least put in an hour or two a day, even this early in the summer, really isn't that much. I work out every other day despite being at work 9-5, like a lot of us here. All I'm asking these guys for is ONE OR TWO HOURS. At this point I know they're still recuperating from the wear and tear of the season, so I wouldn't expect them to go full bore, but i would like them to at least do the minimum to maintain their current condition so that they can be improving in July and August.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>thebizkit69u</b>!
> 
> 
> I think the media is making a bigger deal then Pax is, all the guy was really hopping for but not enforcing was for these guys to come in early and work out, I understand that a 2 week vacation is not alot for these guys but common, these guys work less then you and me, they get paid about 10 times more then you and me, and if my job was just to come in and hang out with some buddys and work out i would not mind comming in early. I remember working for freaking 6.00 dollars and hour 5 days a week at a crappy restaurant for a year and not once was i allowed just 1 week of vacation.


I would argue that being a starter on an NBA team is harder than minimum wage restruant work.

There's travel, a game nearly every night. Practice, Practice Practice. high stress. You get physically beat up every night...

These are professional athletes at the highest level. A work out is not just coming out and hanging out with buddy's.

Most every NBA player could probably do Restruant work. Not every waiter or bus boy could be an NBA player.

We do need to stop comparing professional sports to real world jobs. There's almost nothing that is comparable.


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## ViciousFlogging (Sep 3, 2003)

no one is comparing NBA jobs to real jobs. We're saying that if a Joe Blow like me and you and you and you can work 8 hours a day or more, and still find time to work out for an hour or so 4-5 days a week, it's not too much to expect NBA players to get in the gym for a couple hours when that's pretty much ALL they have to do that day, not to mention their weekly paychecks are almost as big as my yearly paycheck. Big difference.

Maybe they're doing that much on their own. I hope so. I'm just not going to take it on faith anymore after last summer.

edit: I'm just repeating myself now. I'll buzz off for the moment.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

What if the 3 C's were working out the last 2 weeks and finally decided to take their 2 weeks off, eh. People have families to so dont be hating if someone misses the first day.

*BUT THE SHOCKER IS WHEN I READ IT AND SAW NO EDDIE ROBINSON SHOWING UP AT CAMP IM LIKE JEEZ EDDIE LOVES HIS TEAM, GM,. COACH SO MUCH SO IT SHOCKED ME. HE IS OUR TEAMS LEADER SO LOOKS LIKE EVERYONE CAN FOLLOW THE LEADER. * 

and isnt Crawford not Bulls property anymore really.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Golden Bull 23</b>!
> What if the 3 C's were working out the last 2 weeks and finally decided to take their 2 weeks off, eh. People have families to so dont be hating if someone misses the first day.
> 
> *BUT THE SHOCKER IS WHEN I READ IT AND SAW NO EDDIE ROBINSON SHOWING UP AT CAMP IM LIKE JEEZ EDDIE LOVES HIS TEAM, GM,. COACH SO MUCH SO IT SHOCKED ME. HE IS OUR TEAMS LEADER SO LOOKS LIKE EVERYONE CAN FOLLOW THE LEADER. *
> ...


That's an interesting point about Crawford. But if he acts like a total pud this summer and doesn't work on his game, this may discourage some team looking to give him a big restricted offer. I think Crawford will work pretty hard this summer. He's a player I'm not in love with, but I think he works hard and really cares.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Darius Miles Davis</b>!
> 
> 
> That's an interesting point about Crawford. But if he acts like a total pud this summer and doesn't work on his game, this may discourage some team looking to give him a big restricted offer. I think Crawford will work pretty hard this summer. He's a player I'm not in love with, but I think he works hard and really cares.


I wouldn't worry about JC, didn't they say last year the only guy at Berto more than him was Hassell?

Also when we still needed "conditioning", he and Hinrich were the only guys in shape.


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## RetroDreams (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ViciousFlogging</b>!
> 
> 
> yeah, I'd much rather have THEIR job than mine.
> ...


1) Play a physically demanding game that, while it is a game, it is very tough on your body. 
2) Make millions of dollars. Yep, they also donate tons and take care of their families. So not dispute here.
3) Have fans constantly hounding them, wanting autographs, pictures. Most cannot go in public because doing something as simple as filling up their car with gas gets them photo'd and auto'd to death.
4) Athletes work year round on their game... most do at least.
5) Traveling most of the time and being away from your family. Your kids barely knowing who you are. Fun stuff.

All I am saying is who are you to judge someone when they may very well not be in the state.


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## Kismet (Mar 1, 2003)

*Only Ronald Dupree, Linton Johnson, Jannero Pargo and Kendall Gill, who isn't expected to return, showed up on Monday.*

Three of these four are local guys anyway. What else are they going to do?


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Kismet</b>!
> *Only Ronald Dupree, Linton Johnson, Jannero Pargo and Kendall Gill, who isn't expected to return, showed up on Monday.*
> 
> Three of these for are local guys anyway. What else are they going to do?


Hoops da Gym?????

Buffalo Joes?????


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## RetroDreams (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Darius Miles Davis</b>!
> 
> 
> Hoops da Gym?????
> ...


I'd be interested to hear if any of our guys are playing at Hoops or in other big areas.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>RetroDreams</b>!
> 
> 
> I'd be interested to hear if any of our guys are playing at Hoops or in other big areas.


Let me know, I'm dying to dunk on Dupree...


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## ViciousFlogging (Sep 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>RetroDreams</b>!
> 
> 
> 1) Play a physically demanding game that, while it is a game, it is very tough on your body.
> ...


1) all the more reason to work out, at least a little bit, pretty much all the time. I know they need a break. 2 weeks of relaxation, and then resuming light workouts (to maintain their fitness at the least), seems like one to me.
2) SOME athletes donate, do most? I don't know. good for them that they do. A lot of them still have millions left over after that. Average Joe who makes 50g also has mouths to feed, and he works 12 months a year just to pay the bills, so it could be a LOT worse, no? They can still afford their Escalades and jewelry, right?
3) In the current climate, it seems to be the norm that players like the publicity and fanfare more so than not, but that's just my observation. I know I'd get sick of that stuff, though, so point taken. Though I don't think most average NBA players get the treatment you describe unless they're stars. Our guys...aren't...stars.
4) That's the point of this thread, isn't it? ARE our guys working on their games or bodies? We just don't know, and they haven't earned the benefit of the doubt. I think, for every MJ and Kobe who adds to their arsenal over the summer, there are 2 or 3 guys who do the bare minimum to keep their spot. I'm concerned that our guys are the latter. Otherwise this news wouldn't matter at all.
5) yeah, that's no fun. Agreed. But, since they play for a Chicago team, wouldn't it make sense for at least part of their families, or at least their kids, to live in Chicago also? That makes sense, but I know there's a lot more involved than just that. If only it was that easy. This point I have a lot of sympathy for.

Hey, I'd be thrilled if these guys were working out on their own. Then there would be no desperate rush to come into the Berto. These guys just haven't shown the discipline to be left to their own devices for long stretches of time. So it is a little disappointing that more of them aren't there, even if it is just early May.


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

When you can do something only about 350 other people in the world are qualified to do, I ams ure you will have a little wiggle room at work. However, you don't have that typ of talent. Whatever job you are doing that is your choice, NBA players put in a lot of hard work to make it to where they have...if you think you just roll out the bed, thank God you are 6'10, and go out and play in the NBA...you are mistaken.


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## WestHighHawk (Jun 28, 2003)

> Where is Kirk ?


He's been home in Sioux City for a couple of weeks. 
He's also been seen working out at his old high school and on the local golf courses. Don't worry, he'll be fine :wlift:


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## RetroDreams (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ViciousFlogging</b>!
> 
> 
> 1) all the more reason to work out, at least a little bit, pretty much all the time. I know they need a break. 2 weeks of relaxation, and then resuming light workouts (to maintain their fitness at the least), seems like one to me.
> ...


We could go back and forth on this all night long. 

I think you just need to have some faith and play the waiting game. If you remember, Eddy Curry played religiously at Hoops and also was a top performer at the EBC and was in very good shape. Then he was hit in the eye by a pager and sat around for three of four weeks. 

I have no doubts.


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## ViciousFlogging (Sep 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>RetroDreams</b>!
> 
> 
> We could go back and forth on this all night long.
> ...


hey, I'm not too worried yet. I'm a little disappointed like I said, but that's all. I was just responding to the idea that two weeks of vacation, followed by working out a couple hours a day, is some sort of excruciating burden for these guys. I just don't think that's true. Doing some work for 2 out of your 16 waking hours is a pretty sweet deal, no matter your profession.

and your Eddy Curry example only validates my point. He sat around for 3-4 weeks and came into camp out of shape and completely unprepared to step up to the plate. So, is he sitting around for 2+ weeks now? I hope not, because that could just set him back again and he'll have to recover before he can build upon the progress he made this season. See what I'm saying? I hope I'm overreacting, but I've been fooled before. 

I'm not wanting them to push themselves to exhaustion, I just want them to maintain their current level of fitness so that they can make some real progress later in the summer under the eye of Skiles and the training staff. And maybe they're doing that. I hope so. 

Rant over.


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## RetroDreams (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ViciousFlogging</b>!
> 
> 
> hey, I'm not too worried yet. I'm a little disappointed like I said, but that's all. I was just responding to the idea that two weeks of vacation, followed by working out a couple hours a day, is some sort of excruciating burden for these guys. I just don't think that's true. Doing some work for 2 out of your 16 waking hours is a pretty sweet deal, no matter your profession.
> ...


He sat around as a result of his eye injury. He was not allowed to train because of it. Remember the Tim Grover saga? There is always a reason.


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## L.O.B (Jun 13, 2002)

Damn could we wait for this NBA season to be over before going crazy about guys missing off season work outs? 

I am not real upset that guys haven't arrived but if guys don't produce or start the season in shape, I'll remember this article.


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## ViciousFlogging (Sep 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>RetroDreams</b>!
> 
> 
> He sat around as a result of his eye injury. He was not allowed to train because of it. Remember the Tim Grover saga? There is always a reason.


all I was saying was that if it took him 3-4 weeks to go from very good shape to out of shape last summer...and we're possibly already standing at 2 weeks of inactivity now...you get the point. 

and since when does an eye injury keep you off the treadmill or the bike? 

I'll step off now and wait for more news, but I don't think it's unreasonable that some of us are a little disappointed and thinking "here we go again".


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## SecretAgentGuy (Jul 15, 2003)

Pity and sympathy is the last thing you'll hear from me for these "poor, tired, millionaire losers." Conditioning was a major issue this past season and played a huge part in our inability to duplicate the modest success we had last year. Next freaking summer is a contract year for Tyson and Eddy, not to mention the constant beating both those guys have been taking in the media. The sky isn't falling yet, but shucks, it sure as heck will if come May 15th and they're not here. Paxson said be here in two weeks and here it is, 15, maybe 16 days later. Let them stay at home with their mothers this weekend, but Lord help us all if they're not here soon. It would just be another long year for us fans.

But as far as the extend the athletes some consideration talk goes - we've used the military as an example several times as to why HSers should be allowed to enter the NBA. Well, using the same example, if our men and women serving us can work for less than 20 grand a year while risking their lives and working from 5 AM till 9 PM, then these chumps we call athletes should be able to work out a few hours a day and earn the millions that most of us can only dream about. It's physically demanding to be an athlete, but if you can't hack it then get the fsck out. No one is forcing them to cash their paychecks. 

Sorry. Rant over.


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## Kismet (Mar 1, 2003)

http://www.suntimes.com/output/sports/cst-spt-eddy05.html

*Paxson: "Ideally, we'd like to see our players work out at the Berto Center, and we want to make that environment more preferable for them. Eddy needs to spend time with our coaches on the floor. But he doesn't have to do everything at the Berto. Players have to have their freedom. What matters most is that he works out and does it well consistently.''*

This seems to be a clarification on what was earlier presumed to be a Paxson mandate that everyone begin workouts this week at Berto. This seems to make much more sense.

As for Curry's workout plans, _''After a couple of weeks of rest, I'm going to go into the gym, work harder than I ever have and make sure I come to training camp in shape and ready to have my best season,'' Curry said. ''I plan to work out at the Berto Center with [Bulls assistant] Pete Myers during the day, then work out with Tim Grover at night.''_

I'd say that between Paxson's remarks and Curry's intentions, they both seem to be in agreement with what needs to be done this summer. And perhaps some credit for that should go to Jerry Reinsdorf who met one on one with EC last week. _''It made me feel real good that he thinks highly of me,'' Curry said. ''I have a lot of respect for Mr. Reinsdorf because he had enough confidence in me to draft me and try to build around me. The meeting went well. We got to know each other better. He let me know a lot of the pressure from the team is going to be on my shoulders this year. I already knew that and felt he thinks a lot of me. But it's always nice to hear that from the man on top. Even if I end up not being with the Bulls, I always will have a lot of respect for Mr. Reinsdorf.''_


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## dkg1 (May 31, 2002)

I just hope all of our guys can avoid flying pagers this offseason.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>dkg1</b>!
> I just hope all of our guys can avoid flying pagers this offseason.



you know I bet that happend at the EBC because Curry only played in like 2-3 games and then was a no show the rest of teh tournament.


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