# Someone Tell Me Why Jefferies Received The Entire Mid-Level Exception Again?



## USSKittyHawk (Jul 22, 2005)

What a waste, can we start Lee already? Damn! I need to change careers because some of these players are just stealing the NBA money, I want to get down. Jefferies is officially in my doghouse, good luck in getting out of it.


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## L (Sep 20, 2005)

USSKittyHawk said:


> What a waste, can we start Lee already? Damn! I need to change careers because some of these players are just stealing the NBA money, I want to get down. Jefferies is officially in my doghouse, good luck in getting out of it.


Poor kitty....


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

I asked the past few years what exactly does Jeffries do and the answer is nothing. He's a player who just gets in the way, can't shoot, can't finish, can't do jack. Washington had no defense last year and their defense looks no different with him gone. This guy is garbage.


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## musiclexer (Aug 30, 2005)

yeah hes just a body LEE= WAYYY BETTER


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## kconn61686 (Jul 29, 2005)

he's not even that good of a defender. vastly overrated in that department, which also happens to be his only department.


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## Truknicksfan (Mar 25, 2005)

> he's not even that good of a defender. vastly overrated in that department, which also happens to be his only department.


This is the first time I can say I total agree with you. Good post lol.


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## kconn61686 (Jul 29, 2005)

haha, i knew you would finally turn the corner :smilewink


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## Chef (Nov 24, 2002)

Why?

This is the Knicks. You should be accustomed with this crap. 

I don't understand it either. Much less after having drafted David Lee & Renaldo Balkman on consecutive drafts


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## Zuca (Dec 4, 2003)

I think that you and Lakers could trade these sleeping players, like...

Jeffries for Radmanovic.

At least Radmanovic is a shooter. He won't be asked to be a good defender and when this team need defense from SF spot, they'll put Lee or Balkman in the lineup.

As for Lakers, Jeffries will have more use than Vladi actually.


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

Jared Jefferies is a 25 year old that still likely will improve. Although he hasn't been very impressive with us, I think both we and Isiah himself have heaped unrealistic expectations of him in his first year in NY. 

I think people forget to quickly that in college, Jefferies was a prospect most projected to be central to some team's offensive attack and their best scoring *big man*. Since he has gotten into the league, that role has changed and Jared has been called upon to be a defensive stopper. In New York, he now finds himself in a similar role relying on skills that were not apart of what made him a great prospect growing up and to learn a brand new system, coupled with injuries and a suspension, with new players, and the constant scrutiny of fans, wannabe fans and "experts" whose expertise does not appear to be basketball. 

Knowing that, I am more than willing to cut Jared some slack and allow him to become a little bit more comfortable with the team. He has the critical role of being the jack-of-all trades for the team but has played just 15 of 42 games. That is not nearly as enough time as he needs to feel his in a manner much more deeper than simply offense or simply defense. Anyway who has played this game and has been responsible for a role like this one knows exactly what I'm talking about. Often times, this job is much harder than being a scorer or a defender because you such a large amount of responsibilities (and I know from experience). Give him time and he'll likely surprise you considering how skilled and physical gifted Jefferies is. Things are working out for Lamar Odom and it took him nearly 3 seasons to become accostomed to his jack-of-all trades role with the Lakers.


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## alphaorange (Jul 2, 2006)

*Jeffries is what he is....*

A tall skinny, rather weak, rather athletic big man. He was the 11th pick in an extremely weak draft after Yao, Amare, Gooden, and Butler. He was signed not to be an all around guy but to be a defender of the 3-4s, primarily. He has not been asked to score or make plays. In fact,IT has been quoted as saying they didn't need him to take shots....they had other guys for that. However,he has been an offensive liability, thus far, and has not really stopped anyone (which has nothing to do with getting accustomed to his new team). I was in favor of the signing but he has bombed so far. I have seen him make very dumb mistakes, get killed on the glass, get used on defense, and turn the ball over. This is not what he was supposed to be like but it looks like he was a mistake.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

I expect Jeffries to eventually be a decent player for the knicks , but he does look out of sorts at the moment , I think he should be included in the offense more as a facilitator , I think as he gets more into a flow and in sync with the knicks his results should get better ...or at least thats what i hope.


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

*Re: Jeffries is what he is....*



alphaorange said:


> A tall skinny, rather weak, rather athletic big man. He was the 11th pick in an extremely weak draft after Yao, Amare, Gooden, and Butler. He was signed not to be an all around guy but to be a defender of the 3-4s, primarily. He has not been asked to score or make plays. In fact,IT has been quoted as saying they didn't need him to take shots....they had other guys for that. However,he has been an offensive liability, thus far, and has not really stopped anyone (which has nothing to do with getting accustomed to his new team). I was in favor of the signing but he has bombed so far. I have seen him make very dumb mistakes, get killed on the glass, get used on defense, and turn the ball over. This is not what he was supposed to be like but it looks like he was a mistake.


Jefferies is 25 years old so if you believe he is finished filling out then Physiology 101 might help you figure out otherwise. I guess people seem to forget just how skinny guys like Michael Jordan and even Shaq to some extent were before they bulked up significantly. I'm not saying Jefferies is as good as those guys we are strictly comparing body types but I know certain people would be "bright" enough to comment without detailed clarification on my part.

As for the reason why Jefferies was signed, defense was the main reason but certainly was not the only one. Isiah has mentioned "versatility" on more than one occassion describing Jefferies which suggests just more than defense especially given Jefferies skill set. Isiah has mentioned he doesn't needed Jefferies taking shots but in the same breathe mentioned that he needs him to hit shots in the 15 ft area. Obviously he doesn't intend for him to be looking to score but wants to him to get his shots in the course of the offense which suggests he has a role on offense, especially one where guys are open because of the prowess of the pieces around them. In short, Jared Jefferies was meant to be something of the defensive version of Boris Diaw on our team (minus the offensive responsiblities) but has not been able to grasp this. Maybe him playing 15 games as a Knick might have something to do with that (note the extreme use of sarcasm here).

LOL, and I find it amusing how his defense has nothing to do with becoming acostomed to the team. I've played ball and know that defense is a team thing, not an individual thing. To play effective defense you have to know whether someone is going to have your back when your playing tight defense, when and how certain teams deal with picks/screens and how to communicate in general on the floor. Those kinds of things are unique to every situation so the team and his lack of fimilarity with them has ALOT to do with why he's playing the way he is.


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## alphaorange (Jul 2, 2006)

*Ok....*

Jordan was nearly 200lbs when he was drafted (195). He retired at 216 after some serious lifting after the Pistons beat him up. He was also pushing 40? Shaq weighed 281 as an 18 year old and was over 300 by the time he was playing in the league. Yes, they got bigger but both guys obviously had a body that could be built up. Reggie Miller didn't. Neither does Tayshaun. Neither does Jeffries. The list of those that can't reads like a Who's Who of basketball. He needs to gain 15 pounds or so to be like Camby WAS. I also fully understand that defense is a team effort but when you are signed to be a stopper, you are supposed to be a stopper, not a sieve. All league defenders are not there because someone has their back. They are there because they can make life miserable for an offensive player. Jeffrie's role in the offense is to hit shots when he is ignored, nothing more. Basically, Thomas wants him to keep his man from doubling Curry. He has a long way to go. He is left open more because he has sucked at shooting the ball than because of his team mates prowess. He was signed as an active, versatile defender, nothing more. The versatility that IT spoke of was because of his ability to guard 4 positions (supposedly).

Frankly, I'm tired of hearing you relate everything to your basketball "career". I'm sure you were fantastic at your level as a skinny 6'2ish do it all center. I'm just not sure how that translates to NBA players. I think most of the people here have played ball at some level, or at least in pick up games with very good players. I certainly can also be wrong....Uconn got me the other day on Curry's poor effort. Your comment that people thinks Jeffries may be essentially done filling out may be, well, functioning with diminished capacity is an ignorant statement. Some guys don't get much bigger and they are usually the ones that are still bean poles in their mid 20s. Jeffries won't see another 20 lb until he is done playing....which may not be many years away.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Filling out or not, Jeffries best basketball was played in college. And it's the truth.


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

*Re: Ok....*



alphaorange said:


> Jordan was nearly 200lbs when he was drafted (195). He retired at 216 after some serious lifting after the Pistons beat him up. He was also pushing 40? Shaq weighed 281 as an 18 year old and was over 300 by the time he was playing in the league. Yes, they got bigger but both guys obviously had a body that could be built up. Reggie Miller didn't. Neither does Tayshaun. Neither does Jeffries. The list of those that can't reads like a Who's Who of basketball. He needs to gain 15 pounds or so to be like Camby WAS. I also fully understand that defense is a team effort but when you are signed to be a stopper, you are supposed to be a stopper, not a sieve. All league defenders are not there because someone has their back. They are there because they can make life miserable for an offensive player. Jeffrie's role in the offense is to hit shots when he is ignored, nothing more. Basically, Thomas wants him to keep his man from doubling Curry. He has a long way to go. He is left open more because he has sucked at shooting the ball than because of his team mates prowess. He was signed as an active, versatile defender, nothing more. The versatility that IT spoke of was because of his ability to guard 4 positions (supposedly).
> 
> Frankly, I'm tired of hearing you relate everything to your basketball "career". I'm sure you were fantastic at your level as a skinny 6'2ish do it all center. I'm just not sure how that translates to NBA players. I think most of the people here have played ball at some level, or at least in pick up games with very good players. I certainly can also be wrong....Uconn got me the other day on Curry's poor effort. Your comment that people thinks Jeffries may be essentially done filling out may be, well, functioning with diminished capacity is an ignorant statement. Some guys don't get much bigger and they are usually the ones that are still bean poles in their mid 20s. Jeffries won't see another 20 lb until he is done playing....which may not be many years away.



Neither Reggie Miller or Tayshaun Prince have bulked up since they came into the league but did become leaner which made the difference for them. My question to you is why would a jump shooter look to add muscle? Stuff like that throws off your shot and may take to long to adjust to be worth it. In short, they had no real need to look to add muscle. 

Jefferies on the other hand has all the reason in the world to add that muscle since his game is no longer on of the offensive end but the defensive end. Contrary to what you think, Jefferies frame looks like it can carry some weight at 240 lbs and by that, I mean muscle. He may not look like a Shaq but he can afford to get more toned.

On the offensive end, team's double Curry more because he's a threat MORESO than Jefferies not being a perimeter threat. I've seen several games where Jefferies is left open but not for long which suggests that they still respect his jumper (even if they prefer getting beat by it). He's no offensive juggernaut nor do I expect him to be a key scorer for us but he will get shots in the flow of the game. Larry Brown and Isiah Thomas are very similar in their belief that the ball should be shared and everyone should be a threat. Again, that's why Isiah has mentioned Jefferies learning to knock down the 15 ft jumper with consistency. That, along with his passing, ball handling, offensive rebounding and pass disrupting skills will be what he is responsible for on this team as Isiah has mentioned before in the past. Sounds like versatile summarizes him. 

As far as a stopper not needing a team behind him to cover him, I believe your completely wrong. There's no surprise that primer defensive players such as Ben Wallace and Bruce Bowen tend to always be surrounded by very capable defenders. Hell, you see the difference in Ron Artest right now being removed from a squad that had several capable defenders. On the Kings, Artest is good defender but with the Pacers, he was Defensive Player of the Year good. The proof is in the pudding.


P.S., if your so tired of hearing about me playing ball, then don't read the posts. I've played organized ball most of my life which is different from pick up ball. Whether it be on a pro level or you play on a kid level, basketball is basketball and you learn the same truths. The only difference between them of course is the level of competition and the business aspect that enters the picture.

That is how I've been able to relate to certain players or things that go on in basketball. I recall this summer how I had mentioned how added bulk to my torso hurt my lift, my jumper, conditioning and mobility and appeared to be doing the same to Channing Frye early on. You had mentioned some nonsense about how I was wrong and that the point was mute since it could not be related to NBA players. Ironically, not to long after that did an article by Brian Schmitz of the Orlando Sentinel came out mentioning how the same issues happened with Emeka Okafor. In it, it stated: 

*"Okafor feels different after losing, he said, about 20 pounds. Before last season, he hit the weight room, went calorie-crazy and bulked up to 282 pounds. The strategy backfired."

"'I felt it messed everything up . . . my shot, my lift . . . everything,' Okafor said after the 'Cats' practice Friday at RDV Sportsplex. 'I feel good now.'"*


Here's the URL so that you can read the entire article for yourself sometime:
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/spor...v18,0,7945980.story?coll=orl-sports-headlines


...See, an average fan might not be able to spot things like that. Guys who have managed to play organized ball and experience a dose of what it's like to play on a team can spot things like that; it helps them understand alot more of what is going on and off the floor.


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

HKF said:


> Filling out or not, Jeffries best basketball was played in college. And it's the truth.


That's debateable considering his age and what has happened during his career. I'll reserve judgement until the guy is given enough time have a real chance of meshing with this team and our system.


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## alphaorange (Jul 2, 2006)

*I respect your passion...*

I really do, but having played as long as have, with as many guys as I have, I have seen most every scenario. What you say has a grain of truth in it but you spin it so that it looks like a universal truth.

1) "Jump shooters don't need to bulk up". True, but they do need strength in order to get their shot off, in most cases. Prince classified as a jump shooter? LOL...He can shoot but you'd go a long ways to find a legitimate analyst define him as a player as a jump shooter.

2)Getting toned is not the same as getting bigger. In fact, it is often the opposite. I'm sure JJ is sufficiently toned.

3) If all the guys that respected JJ's jumpshot gave a dime, he couldn't buy a cup of coffee.

4) Artest hasn't been the same defender since the brawl. He was a great defender in his early days with the Bulls and they were an awful defensive team.

5) I have no desire to revisit the bulk vs. shot discussion again except to say that the guys you cite (other than yourself) bulked up very quickly and to a large degree. Frye has never looked better shooting the ball than he does now, and he is able to get more physical while doing it. Okafor gained 25 lb to be 6'9 or 6'10 and 282 lb......just stupid. My point was that such things are very individual. My own experience was polar opposite of yours. My usable range increased to 24-25 feet (from 20-21) and my touch was unaffected. Lift was a non factor as I never had any.


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

*Re: I respect your passion...*



alphaorange said:


> I really do, but having played as long as have, with as many guys as I have, I have seen most every scenario. What you say has a grain of truth in it but you spin it so that it looks like a universal truth.
> 
> 1) "Jump shooters don't need to bulk up". True, but they do need strength in order to get their shot off, in most cases. Prince classified as a jump shooter? LOL...He can shoot but you'd go a long ways to find a legitimate analyst define him as a player as a jump shooter.
> 
> ...



1.) Tayshaun Prince in my opinion is not very much of a scorer although he was much more prominent in offenses at Kentucky. I'll admit that I made a mistake including him next to a jump shooter was obviously a mistake. At the same time, he's not the kind of guy I'd want to put the ball on the floor.

2.) I'm fully aware toning up does not mean the same as bulking up but they both end up with you having more strength. In Jefferies situation, I think he needs to bulk up because I'll agree with you that Jefferies is toned.

3.) Maybe your right. The jury's still out but Jefferies showed the potential of being a scorer in college and was drafted to do that. I think he'll improve on that end of the floor for us.

4.) The point was Artest was not the All-Team First Defense with the Bulls than when he was with the Pacers who had a solid team around him. Team sport.

5.) LOL. You may not get very much lift from your jump shots but neither did Okafor and that added bulk still managed to damage not only his shooting ability but his entire mobility that later resulted in injury. 

Frye has seemed to overcome that issue but at the same time, the intensity of the practices run on the NBA and the sheer fact most guys lose weight under the rigours of playing at such a high level (see Kevin Garnett) may have allowed Frye to get in better physical shape in terms of his mobility.


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## alphaorange (Jul 2, 2006)

*I have to admit*

I really enjoy arguing with you....even if you are wrong most of the time....lol. You put a lot of thought and logic (circular) into it and it makes for worthwhile debate. Keep standing toe to toe, it keeps things balanced.


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

*Re: I have to admit*



alphaorange said:


> I really enjoy arguing with you....even if you are wrong most of the time....lol. You put a lot of thought and logic (circular) into it and it makes for worthwhile debate. Keep standing toe to toe, it keeps things balanced.


Got to admit the boards aren't as exciting without you. I don't mind having these heated debates as long as we keep the respect factor. Sometimes, people feel I don't do that because of how much I appreciate these kind of posts. It's just part of my competitive spirit and press others to find issues in my stance or to clarify on their own. Take Care; I'm glad someone understands.


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## alphaorange (Jul 2, 2006)

*I definately get it...*

I used to play pick ups at SU 5 days a week. Same core of guys all the time. Games were extremely physical (typical as you get older and stronger, slower lol), broken bones, blood, lots of holding, etc. Best games of my life. Wicked intense but always a hand to help you up and a smile. Never cheap or malicious. Lots of respect.


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## ChosenFEW (Jun 23, 2005)

*Ok Ok...*

Why dont you 2 get a room or something.... :clown:

:nah:

J/K


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

*Re: I definately get it...*



alphaorange said:


> I used to play pick ups at SU 5 days a week. Same core of guys all the time. Games were extremely physical (typical as you get older and stronger, slower lol), broken bones, blood, lots of holding, etc. Best games of my life. Wicked intense but always a hand to help you up and a smile. Never cheap or malicious. Lots of respect.



LOL, I know by what you mean about how brutal games could be. I grew up playing in Coney Island and the other parts of Brooklyn. When thing I learned from playing here is just how full of **** people can be. You can take a jump shot and recieve a job straight to the stomach but if you barely touch them on the other end of the floor it's a foul. By and large though I've been use to extremely physical play especially because there was no such thing as a foul from the time I entered my first basketball league at 8 years old. It was a very pleasant experience despite not experiencing alot of success my first two seasons because I saw alot more than just basketball being played on the floor. These memories have contributed a great deal to my addictive love of the game and everything to do with it. Unfortunately at the moment, I'm not able to play in college because of timing issues and the fact that I'm a muchkin at the positions I've been groomed to play, LOL. Good little exchange though here.


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

*Re: Ok Ok...*



ChosenFEW said:


> Why dont you 2 get a room or something.... :clown:
> 
> :nah:
> 
> J/K



LOL, I don't know what to do anymore. When I'm being an smart ***, no one loves me and when I'm being nice, I'm to sentimental. Is there no pleasing you people?

J/K.


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## da1nonly (May 8, 2006)

I think Jerome James should start along with Curry. Forget Jeffries


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

da1nonly said:


> I think Jerome James should start along with Curry. Forget Jeffries


That would result in the same quick 3 fouls and a trip to the bench. James is not mobile enough to cover 4's in this league. This is part of the reason why I believe we should move him for an Adonal Foyle who at least has the conditioning to stay on the floor and a solid defensive game to boot.


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## Zuca (Dec 4, 2003)

TwinkieFoot said:


> That would result in the same quick 3 fouls and a trip to the bench. James is not mobile enough to cover 4's in this league. This is part of the reason why I believe we should move him for an Adonal Foyle who at least has the conditioning to stay on the floor and a solid defensive game to boot.



I believe that if you send JJ with Malik Rose and maybe a 2nd rounder (or some cash), you can have Foyle and Zarko Cabarkapa (injured, but expiring contract) from GS. I believe that Nelson would use both players in GS. W's defense is terrible, like every Nelson team, and Malik bring some toughness that Diogu was bringing, and JJ have a more offensive oriented game, so Nelson would use him more than he is using Foyle now. Foyle would be great (knowing his limits) to this team now, bringing toughness and passion off the bench.


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## urwhatueati8god (May 27, 2003)

*Re: Ok Ok...*



ChosenFEW said:


> Why dont you 2 get a room or something.... :clown:
> 
> :nah:
> 
> J/K


Brokeback basketball boards?


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## alphaorange (Jul 2, 2006)

*Chosen and youarewhat....*

"Why dont you 2 get a room or something.... :clown:"

"Brokeback basketball boards?"

I didn't see the movie........why don't you tell me about it? I am not so sentimental....I'll kick your butt. I will, however, help you back to the end of the bench. You guys seem to be thinking about alternative relationships alot.....maybe you could swap numbers or something.....or at least add to a thread.


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