# So what was Minnesota doing?



## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

They picked Rubio, Flynn, Ellington and lastly they picked some big dude who plays on Rubio's team.

I honestly liked what they did this offseason so far. First of all, I think they are perfectly content with having Telfair be a backup point guard (and I agree with this as a backup he's not bad). However, they needed a starting point guard and putting Rubio and Flynn in a blender and seeing which one emerges is the best way to handle it.

Note, I expect Rubio to be traded because not only will Flynn beat him out, but because his value is perceived higher. Minnesota didn't even really want Rubio, but because Evans and Harden were gone, they had to take him. 

I am staking my claim on this that Flynn is going to be the best point guard that Minnesota has had since a young Marbury and that includes Terrell Brandon, Chauncey Billups and Sam Cassell when they all played there. 

Minnesota has the bigs with Love, Jefferson, Pekovic (still in Europe) and good backups in Smith and Songaila (Etan and Pecherov are throwaways).

Now I expect them to look for wing players in FA because Corey Brewer, Ryan Gomes and Wayne Ellington is not enough.

Right today:

G - Flynn/Rubio/Telfair
G - Ellington/
F - Brewer/Gomes/Cardinal (expiring)
F - Love/Smith/Songaila (expiring)
C - Jefferson/Etan (expiring)/Pecherov (expiring)

Holds the rights to Norel (6'10 PF) & Pekovic (7'0 C)

The Wolves have got to trade for impact wing player and there might be some available. Maybe they go for Hedo. With all those expiring contracts they have to be able to get somebody. Ellington is not going to cut it.


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## Rather Unique (Aug 26, 2005)

HKF said:


> They picked Rubio, Flynn, Ellington and lastly they picked some big dude who plays on Rubio's team.
> 
> I honestly liked what they did this offseason so far. First of all, I think they are perfectly content with having Telfair be a backup point guard (and I agree with this as a backup he's not bad). *However, they needed a starting point guard and putting Rubio and Flynn in a blender and seeing which one emerges is the best way to handle it.*


HKF, since you think that was the best way to handle it, how long would you give the 'blender' process?


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Rather Unique said:


> HKF, since you think that was the best way to handle it, how long would you give the 'blender' process?


The new year (January 1st), but I could see how after summer league and training camp, you want to trade the player before the start of the season and say this is our guy. It's complicated here because Telfair is only 24 years old and he probably still feels he can be a starting point in this league (and he has shown flashes here and there). In this situation I would give it to the New Year, but then one has got to go.


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## mo76 (Jun 13, 2003)

I think the trade and the pick of 2 PGs backto back would be enfuriating if I were a fan. They could have just taken rubio and kept foye and miller and had a something that looks like a team. The fact that they took 2 PGs makes it obvious they don't see rubio as their future PG, and lowers his trade value imo. I know they thought things would break differently but this is bad.


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## mo76 (Jun 13, 2003)

They should work out a 3 way deal with portland sending rubio to NY, nate robinson to portland and get some good young talent from portland for themselves.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

They picked Rubio as trade bait and got the guy they really wanted with Flynn. It was a good draft for them, still think they need help at the wing positions.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

HB said:


> They picked Rubio as trade bait and got the guy they really wanted with Flynn. It was a good draft for them, still think they need help at the wing positions.


Precisely, they wanted their future backcourt of either Harden/Evans and Flynn. They didn't want Rubio other than to trade him (because he still has a lot of value to NBA teams).


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

> The Wolves have got to trade for impact wing player and there might be some available. Maybe they go for Hedo. With all those expiring contracts they have to be able to get somebody. Ellington is not going to cut it.


Lol. Soo stupid of Minny to trade Foye *AND* Miller :laugh:. I love Minny, but that was just a really questionable move. I like the Flynn pick, but the Rubio pick may backfire. They might not see the dividends until 2-3 yrs from now.... They say they can wait tho, but in the meantime, they have gaping wholes at SG and SF... I guess they're trying to effectively waste another great big mans career(Al Jefferson). Oh, and Minny cant afford Hedo. They only have around 6mil in cap space.


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## Rather Unique (Aug 26, 2005)

HKF said:


> The new year (January 1st), but I could see how after summer league and training camp, you want to trade the player before the start of the season and say this is our guy. It's complicated here because Telfair is only 24 years old and he probably still feels he can be a starting point in this league (and he has shown flashes here and there). In this situation I would give it to the New Year, but then one has got to go.


yeah, i think the extremely important part is maintaining both players value, specially Rubio (as he's the one more than likely to get dealt) and the fact that 'one of them has got to go' stays on their mind. I can't take em serious if they were to want to keep those two long term.


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## mo76 (Jun 13, 2003)

HB said:


> They picked Rubio as trade bait and got the guy they really wanted with Flynn. It was a good draft for them, still think they need help at the wing positions.


I wouldn't really call that a good draft. They might have done the best they could, but it still turned out bad. Any team could have traded up for rubio and used him as trade bait. (I know they used their pick for rubio and washingtons for flynn, but still)


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## Rather Unique (Aug 26, 2005)

The Kings really ****ed the T-Wolves plans, that's why i thought they went BPA, for trade value. It's the only thing that makes sense, yet they haven't made a trade...


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## jalen5 (Nov 19, 2004)

I think 2 questions will determine the success of the T-Wolves draft:

1) What happens with Rubio?

Does Minnesota have a trade lined up? What is it for? Does Rubio 
stay in Europe for a couple of years? I don't see how they could 
possibly play both Rubio and Flynn in the same backcourt. They both
need the ball in their hands to be at their best. They also have 
Telfair, who is young and talented and plenty capable of being the
backup. I really like Flynn and would build around him. This means
Rubio has to be moved...but for what and when? This is the biggest 
question and will ultimately decide the success/failure. If they can't turn Rubio into some good assets, I believe they will regret not taking Stephen Curry to go along with Flynn as these two are much better fits than both Rubio and Flynn.

2) What comes out of the pick the T-Wolves received from Denver in
the trade for Ty Lawson?

If I'm not mistaken, the pick the T-Wolves got from Denver is 
Charlotte's pick. However, there are some protections around it. 
Does anyone know the details of this? This pick could be a huge gain
for the T-Wolves depending on the details/restrictions of the pick.


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## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

Scary how much I agree with everything HKF wrote.

If I was the GM I wouldn't give a damn if either Flynn or Rubio gets humiliated by the other and destroyed. Heck, this is one of the most interesting basketball experiments I've seen in as long as I can remember. It's like one of those scientific studies that never is allowed to be done because it violates ethics.

****ing kudos to GM's that play cutthroat. I have no sympathy for GM's that fail in this league. I said before that I loved what McHale did with the shotgun approach in this draft. I know it sounds silly but I wouldn't have minded keeping Lawson as well. Wouldn't be the first middlerounder to become special. Rubio might not even come over so Lawson (who I think is better anyway) could serve as the meat that the beast Flynn can train with.

This has helped me to confirm my new belief that GM's should be fired every 5 years. Nobody is hesitant to deal with a fresh GM (just see Pritchard) and they haven't built enough enemies or borrowed any favors. Some team wants to come to me talking about a favor we owe them? "Oh, that was the old GM. I fired him last week." Favor canceled.


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## mo76 (Jun 13, 2003)

The '93 Heat said:


> Scary how much I agree with everything HKF wrote.
> 
> If I was the GM I wouldn't give a damn if either Flynn or Rubio gets humiliated by the other and destroyed. Heck, this is one of the most interesting basketball experiments I've seen in as long as I can remember. It's like one of those scientific studies that never is allowed to be done because it violates ethics.
> 
> ...


 
Are you serious? Flynn and Rubio are simply basketball players. The fact that they were top 10 picks doesn't make them that special when compared with other NBA players, like say randy foye for example. I hope this "experiment" youre talking about leads to them finding a starting shooting guard an small forward by the time November (you know, actual basketball games) rolls around.


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## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

They're unknown commodities. I would rather have 2 potentially great PG's than just one. How often do you see the top two PG's in a draft go to the exact same team? The idea of them battling it out and forcing one of them to realize the huge expectations placed on them is exciting.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Heh keeping Lawson is just plain silly. At some point you have to realize you dont need 4 young point guards on one team, especially when you have to pay them all. These are guaranteed contracts ya know.


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## Cornholio (Feb 13, 2005)

The '93 Heat said:


> Scary how much I agree with everything HKF wrote.
> 
> If I was the GM I wouldn't give a damn if either Flynn or Rubio gets humiliated by the other and destroyed. Heck, this is one of the most interesting basketball experiments I've seen in as long as I can remember. It's like one of those scientific studies that never is allowed to be done because it violates ethics.
> 
> ...


Kahn is the GM of the Wolves, not McHale.


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## BlakeJesus (Feb 1, 2006)

I really had no clue what they were thinking. I was a little peeved as a Hawks fan to see Minny grab their third PG right before we could pick Lawson. It makes sense I suppose that they traded his rights away, but could they really not find a better suitor than Denver? I can't imagine the first they get back next year is going to be anywhere near the 18th pick.

After reading 93 Heat's post, I agree that it's pretty gutsy and pretty smart to let them battle it out and then make a decision from there. This is an extremely young team with plenty of time to develop these kids because of the low expectations for them, at least in the near future. I do think they move Rubio, mainly because he has a much higher trade value. I do think that Rubio is going to be a better pro, but Flynn is a guy they really like. I'm curious exactly what they try and do with Rubio. Package him for a wing player? Keep him overseas for a year or two? It's an interesting conundrum no doubt. I really think Rubio is ready to come over and play right now. Because that team is so young, I think he has a chance to make an impact right now.

I also really like the Wayne Ellington pick. It's no secret that I've been high on him for awhile now (which is odd, seeing as I'm a Duke fan. But hey, if MJ can pick a Dukie, I can like a Tar Heel.). He's a fantastic shooter, and he has the size to play the 2. Whichever of the PG's they keep, he will be a good backcourt mate with either.


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## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

Cornholio said:


> Kahn is the GM of the Wolves, not McHale.


McHale gathered the picks. Although the #5 pick was a Kahn move, the other 2 were McHale moves from long ago.


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## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

I wouldn't completely rule out that they will just keep both and see how it works out without having a long term plan set up yet. Maybe they want to try to something different and have two point guards on the floor all the time.


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## BlakeJesus (Feb 1, 2006)

I think that Rubio and Flynn can play together to be completely honest. Flynn will have to tweak his game a little bit, however. You can line Rubio up at the 2 because of his length, but just let him be the point guard from the 2 spot. Rubio's pretty thin to be playing 2, but he'll bulk up with time. Flynn can move well without the ball, and is a pretty good outside shooter. It isn't something I'd run with long term, but it will certainly work for awhile until they choose one or the other.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

GregOden said:


> I really had no clue what they were thinking. I was a little peeved as a Hawks fan to see Minny grab their third PG right before we could pick Lawson. *It makes sense I suppose that they traded his rights away, but could they really not find a better suitor than Denver? I can't imagine the first they get back next year is going to be anywhere near the 18th pick.*


I think they actually get Charlotte's 1st rnd pick next year which Denver owned. So it kinda makes sense for them because there were basically no standout wings left on the board. I imagine Charlotte will be a fringe playoff team again next year, so that pick can land anywhere between 10 and 20. Next years draft should also be a little bit stronger and more balance, so it makes sense. Should be interesting to see how Curry pans out and if they made a good decision to take the gamble on Rubio over him.


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## BlakeJesus (Feb 1, 2006)

Got ya, I figured that it wasn't actually Denver's pick they were getting back, but I missed part of the draft so I didn't really catch the details on the trade. It does make sense simply because they didn't need another rookie on the team this year, and of course none of the rookies available fit their needs.


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## Wade County (Jun 22, 2003)

Well, I was suprised to say the least when I saw them draft Rubio and Flynn, but Minnesota is in a rebuilding stage where they need to get assets. Rubio was an expected Top 3 pick which many teams were after. He slips to 5, they have to take him. Its obvious he's not going to play there - but he was the most valuable _asset_ at that stage.

Flynn was the guy they wanted all along - so they werent going to pass on him. Imagine the furor if they passed on Rubio though...


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## mo76 (Jun 13, 2003)

I really don't think rubio can defend NBA shooting guards. They would be undersized at every position on the floor. YIKES.


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## Rikki G (Feb 15, 2009)

Blue Magic said:


> Lol. Soo stupid of Minny to trade Foye *AND* Miller :laugh:. I love Minny, but that was just a really questionable move. I like the Flynn pick, but the Rubio pick may backfire. They might not see the dividends until 2-3 yrs from now.... They say they can wait tho, but in the meantime, they have gaping wholes at SG and SF... I guess they're trying to effectively waste another great big mans career(Al Jefferson). Oh, and Minny cant afford Hedo. They only have around 6mil in cap space.


Miller and Foye are garbage. Neither of them can defend. Miller is a shooter that lost the ability to shoot and Foye, outside of a great game 1 out of every 10, is about as average as it gets.


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## sMaK (Jun 13, 2002)

They have to trade Rubio. Flynn is a point guard not an off guard.


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## LionOfJudah (May 27, 2003)

I've pulled similar moves during fantasy drafts. Just to horde talent knowing someone is going to come knocking with a decent offer eventually. I was a ******* and held onto 4 starting QBs in our fantasy football league until someone came through with the right offer. So obviously I dig the corner the market approach. It made it even dirtier knowing there were people hoping to have one of these talented PGs fall to them late in the 1st.

Now if they don't trade Rubio while everyone is green with envy over his potential I think it could be a huge mistake. Who knows the kid might end up great in 3-5 years but that's a mistake I'd live with. It would be even worse to get him into summer league and have him look too slow, weak, inexperienced etc, for anyone to make a decent trade offer. Right now, the Knicks could dump a half decent 2 or 3 and a future 1st for him (complete speculation). Come September or October that might not be the case.


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

how about a deal for al thornton? okay, that's a very homer suggestion.....no way that the wolves would give up an asset like rubio for al freakin thornton.....



but how about a deal for tayshaun prince? i know that the pistons already have stuckey, but perhaps stuckey and rubio could coexist in the backcourt, and it would be the first major move in the piston's rebuilding process.....


prince would provide the defense and veteran leadership that the wolves desperately need.....and he's not only a defensive stopper, but he has offensive skills to boot.....


just a thought.....not sure how the contracts would work out though...


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## LionOfJudah (May 27, 2003)

bootstrenf said:


> how about a deal for al thornton? okay, that's a very homer suggestion.....no way that the wolves would give up an asset like rubio for al freakin thornton.....


It wouldn't be Thornton alone but it's not that unreasonable. I might be undervaluing Rubio but I always undervalue unproven talent as should more GMs.



> but how about a deal for tayshaun prince? i know that the pistons already have stuckey, but perhaps stuckey and rubio could coexist in the backcourt, and it would be the first major move in the piston's rebuilding process.....
> 
> 
> prince would provide the defense and veteran leadership that the wolves desperately need.....and he's not only a defensive stopper, but he has offensive skills to boot.....
> ...


I don't think that'll happen now that the Pistons just signed Ben Gordon. I'm thinking he's going to the Knicks honestly. D'Antoni likes Euro players and will over value them. To each his own is all I have to say.


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

when did the ben gordon trade go down?


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## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

bootstrenf said:


> when did the ben gordon trade go down?


He was a unrestricted free agent.


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

croco said:


> He was a unrestricted free agent.


thanks for the info....


when was he signed? and for how much?


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## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

bootstrenf said:


> thanks for the info....
> 
> 
> when was he signed? and for how much?


Signings can't be officially announced because of the annual one week moratorium right now, in other words not before next Wednesday. "Rumor" has it on all the big networks though that he will sign a 5 yr/55 mil. deal with the Pistons.


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## f22egl (Jun 3, 2004)

HKF said:


> Right today:
> 
> G - Flynn/Rubio/Telfair
> G - Ellington/
> ...


Darius Songailia doesn't have an expiring contract; his contract expires in 2011.


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