# There's no crying in basketball! (Likeabosh)



## AirJay (Aug 5, 2005)

I am not usually a guy who jumps the gun over one bad loss.

But this is getting ridiculous.

Chris Bosh was supposed to come into the Heat as a proven 20-10 guy. He was supposed to be the low-post complement to Wade and Lebron.

After watching nearly every minute of Heat basketball this season I have concluded three things about his game:

1) He has absolutely no post game. None whatsover. Low post, high post, mid post, nothing happening.

2) He is easily bullied by shorter physical defenders, taller physical defenders, midget physical defenders, hell anyone who is physical bullies him into taking and missing jumpshots.

3) He is a terrific jump-shooter. Wow, really worth the same salary as Lebron and Wade.

How was Bosh versus Amare ever even a question? The guy is not the best rebounder on this team (statisically yes, but Lebron is much better), he has no big man presence, and he spends less time in the paint than the two wings. At this point I would take any of the following PFs over Bosh:

Duncan
Garnett
Randolph
Dirk
Aldridge
Gasol
Amare
Boozer
Josh Smith
David West
Scola
Cousins

Hell, give me Serge Ibaka at his price tag with his defensive presence over Bosh at the near-max. Guy has been revealed to be the biggest fraud in the NBA. Unlike say Pau Gasol, who does not get nearly enough credit for what he has shown in a Lakers uniform.


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## Babir (Jan 10, 2005)

very good post 

Bosh looks absolutely lost in a Heat uniform, especially in a losses...


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## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

put any of those guys who aren't awesome defenders on the heat in his place and see what happens. they wouldn't be any better(except for dirk).


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## Game3525 (Aug 14, 2008)

rocketeer said:


> put any of those guys who aren't awesome defenders on the heat in his place and see what happens. they wouldn't be any better(except for dirk).


This.


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## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

rocketeer said:


> put any of those guys who aren't awesome defenders on the heat in his place and see what happens. they wouldn't be any better(except for dirk).


Yea, I don't really know what Miami fans expected, he's always been a finesse big and he was never going to get enough touches to average 20ppg this year. I mean, Amare's getting a ton of positive press because NY was so bad for so long, but Bosh has already proven he can put up great numbers on a .500 team.


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## Ron (May 8, 2002)

But I thought he was a super friend???


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

didnt we do this over the summer?


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

In hindsight it's not exactly rocket science to say they might've been better of splitting his 15M into a couple roleplayers, but those weaknesses you stated have always been there. 

Maybe it's on LeBron and Wade to try to do a better job of incorporating his strengths into what they do to win games


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

I think Bosh has done just fine in his role, which is an elite pick and pop player, like Boozer. He is averaging 18ppg shooting 49% as primarily a jumpshooter, which isn't bad. He has had a couple of bad shooting games recently, but for the most part he hasn't been disappointing or surprising this year. He has played about like you'd expect him to in that situation.


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## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

Dre™ said:


> In hindsight it's not exactly rocket science to say they might've been better of splitting his 15M into a couple roleplayers, but those weaknesses you stated have always been there.


They needed Bosh to convince Lebron to sign, so ultimately it was the right move, it's just the hazards of letting players build their own teams. Chicago would've given him the best shot at the most number of rings, but Miami had the better headliners. The Heat are still a really good team in their own right, and they'll probably win a couple before all is said and done, but the Bulls could've owned the league with Lebron there.


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## Ron (May 8, 2002)

Sir Patchwork said:


> I think Bosh has done just fine in his role, which is an elite pick and pop player, like Boozer. He is averaging 18ppg shooting 49% as primarily a jumpshooter, which isn't bad. He has had a couple of bad shooting games recently, but for the most part he hasn't been disappointing or surprising this year. He has played about like you'd expect him to in that situation.


I think you pretty much nailed it here, maybe without realizing it.

On the one hand, sure his averages are good (I sure like the 18 ppg with 49% from the field), but on the other hand, HE HAS TO BE THE THIRD OPTION when it comes to crunch-time basketball (and playoff basketball) and that just isn't happening. He has consistently failed to become that player in key moments in games, and that is why Miami can't close these games out consistently.


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## sMaK (Jun 13, 2002)

Whats really bothering Miami fans is his lack of physicality. Its frustrating to watch. We also do not have a a half decent center either so his problems are magnified.


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## AirJay (Aug 5, 2005)

Bogg said:


> Yea, I don't really know what Miami fans expected, he's always been a finesse big and he was never going to get enough touches to average 20ppg this year. I mean, Amare's getting a ton of positive press because NY was so bad for so long, but Bosh has already proven he can put up great numbers on a .500 team.


At least Amare drives the ball to the basket. Bosh is just embarrassing himself this season.



Dre™ said:


> In hindsight it's not exactly rocket science to say they might've been better of splitting his 15M into a couple roleplayers, but those weaknesses you stated have always been there.
> 
> Maybe it's on LeBron and Wade to try to do a better job of incorporating his strengths into what they do to win games


In theory it would have been nice but they needed Bosh to get Lebron. Yes, I will take that trade but the guy is perhaps nearly as frustrating as Michael Beasley was the past two seasons.

I have separate issues with Lebron and Wade...



Sir Patchwork said:


> I think Bosh has done just fine in his role, which is an elite pick and pop player, like Boozer. He is averaging 18ppg shooting 49% as primarily a jumpshooter, which isn't bad. He has had a couple of bad shooting games recently, but for the most part he hasn't been disappointing or surprising this year. He has played about like you'd expect him to in that situation.


The statistics do not tell you everything. I am big stats guy myself but those numbers are misleading. Every single one of his jumpshots is wide-open. 49% as a big man known to be a shooter?



Bogg said:


> They needed Bosh to convince Lebron to sign, so ultimately it was the right move, it's just the hazards of letting players build their own teams. Chicago would've given him the best shot at the most number of rings, but Miami had the better headliners. The Heat are still a really good team in their own right, and they'll probably win a couple before all is said and done, but the Bulls could've owned the league with Lebron there.


In a way as an NBA fan I almost wish Lebron had stayed in Cleveland or gone to Chicago. I love the move as a Heat fan but the NBA fan in me is disgusted by what this situation has revealed. This team has major, major problems not only because of the supporting cast but because of the Big Three, Bosh chief among them.


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## CosaNostra (Sep 16, 2010)

I don't think any of this is news, it's just been magnified by him playing for a relevant team for once. He needs to buck up and play down low. With his size and strength there's no excuse for shying away from contact.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

Ron said:


> I think you pretty much nailed it here, maybe without realizing it.
> 
> On the one hand, sure his averages are good (I sure like the 18 ppg with 49% from the field), but on the other hand, HE HAS TO BE THE THIRD OPTION when it comes to crunch-time basketball (and playoff basketball) and that just isn't happening. He has consistently failed to become that player in key moments in games, and that is why Miami can't close these games out consistently.


Bosh has hit some pretty key jumpers this year, even if in losing efforts. People are short-sighted and focus on tonight's game and his 1-18 travesty, but I'd say he has hit more big shots than missed this season. 

Miami still has some things to iron out. They're just not consistent. They look like the showtime Lakers one half, and the Cleveland Cavs the 2nd half. I don't think you can single out Bosh for this problem. It's a team problem that the team leader (Spoelstra) needs to figure out.


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## AirJay (Aug 5, 2005)

CosaNostra said:


> I don't think any of this is news, it's just been magnified by him playing for a relevant team for once. He needs to buck up and play down low. With his size and strength there's no excuse for shying away from contact.


Needs to take a page out of Wades' book (diving over the Heat bench into the stands) and man up.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

People who expected Bosh to turn into some physical presence maybe hadn't watched him at all in Toronto?


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## AirJay (Aug 5, 2005)

Sir Patchwork said:


> People who expected Bosh to turn into some physical presence maybe hadn't watched him at all in Toronto?


I will admit I had not. I had seen limited actual live games when they met the Heat and was not really that impressed. I thought he would be better than a rich man's Michael Beasley. I am just stunned anyone (and I was in the same boat) considered him in the same class as Amare last summer.


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## unluckyseventeen (Feb 5, 2006)

Didn't he officially change his middle name to Charmin?


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## afobisme (Apr 29, 2006)

his stock value is dwindling by the minute... soon miami won't be able to get much for him in a trade.


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## afobisme (Apr 29, 2006)

AirJay said:


> I will admit I had not. I had seen limited actual live games when they met the Heat and was not really that impressed. I thought he would be better than a rich man's Michael Beasley. I am just stunned anyone (and I was in the same boat) considered him in the same class as Amare last summer.


a lot of people were talking about how bosh = pau, which isn't even a close comparison. maybe pau's soft, but he at least tries to be a man. he can also block shots and play the post.


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## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

AirJay said:


> At least Amare drives the ball to the basket. Bosh is just embarrassing himself this season.


Bosh is a better rebounder and, quite honestly, I'm not sure you want two bigs hanging out in the lane if you're running half-court sets with Lebron and Wade all night. The truth is Amare wouldn't have worked out much better in Miami because neither does the types of things you want from your third option. It's hard for high-scoring finesse bigs to maximize their talents playing alongside two guys getting up nearly 20 shots a night each. He has been an excellent scapegoat all season though, so there's that.


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## tone wone (Jan 30, 2003)

Im only surprised by his lack of athleticism...I honestly thought he was a better athlete than this. Truth be told, if he were paired with a Center who could move, his deficiencies wouldn't be all that noticeable.

Fact is, offensively, these guys aren't compatible. So as talented as they are, I know they didn't think they would need this much effort to make it work on that end of the floor. 

When he goes one on one he takes forever getting into his moves and sometimes its hard to watch.


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

Sir Patchwork said:


> I think Bosh has done just fine in his role, which is an elite pick and pop player, like Boozer. He is averaging 18ppg shooting 49% as primarily a jumpshooter


Boozer is not an 'elite pick and pop' player - he's one of the better post options in the league

and 49% as the third guy people are worrying about (by a far stretch) is nothing to hang your hat on


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## tone wone (Jan 30, 2003)

Bogg said:


> Bosh is a better rebounder and, quite honestly, I'm not sure you want two bigs hanging out in the lane if you're running half-court sets with Lebron and Wade all night. The truth is Amare wouldn't have worked out much better in Miami because neither does the types of things you want from your third option. It's hard for high-scoring finesse bigs to maximize their talents playing alongside two guys getting up nearly 20 shots a night each. He has been an excellent scapegoat all season though, so there's that.


on the boards and defending pick n rolls..Bosh>Amare

Offensively, they'd be much better off with STAT in the high post. Amare knows how to play angles and attack when defenses aren't set. When it isn't catch n shoot, Bosh needs a lot space to score. He doesn't/can't operate in crowds, Amare can. Amare rolls after setting picks and slips them beautifully, Bosh flares for jumpers %95 of the time. 

2 of the best pick n roll perimeter players in the league and Miami doesn't feature a single big who's a threat rolling to the basket.


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## GrandKenyon6 (Jul 19, 2005)

They would be nearly unbeatable with Amare. Again, Bosh is about half the player. It's not close at all.


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## King Sancho Fantastic (Jul 19, 2005)




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## Job (Feb 28, 2011)

At the end of the Orlando game, Mike Miller, one of your best shooters, is inbounding the ball. After Bosh misses a three, Miller dives to the floor and rebounds the ball to give Lebron a second chance. Bosh should be the one inbounding and rebounding,kicking out a pass for an attempt. Bosh has become too perimeter oriented.


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## DunkMaster (Mar 1, 2011)

Whether you think Bosh is overrated or not, I can't see how you can argue he's not a good fit. They would be much better off with two mid-salary big guys and I'm sure Lebron and Wade are already thinking about this, although I have no clue if/when a trade would be possible.


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## Game3525 (Aug 14, 2008)

King Sancho Fantastic said:


>


Damn son, the playoffs haven't even started yet.......


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## afobisme (Apr 29, 2006)

if i were riles, i'd propose a trade to denver. nene and raymond felton for chris bosh. im not sure if denver would do it though, since bosh's stock has dropped dramatically.


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## Job (Feb 28, 2011)

I think the Heat should trade Bosh and a first round pick to the Bulls for Noah. Noah does not need the Ball to be effective, he would be a perfect fit.


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## DunkMaster (Mar 1, 2011)

Job said:


> I think the Heat should trade Bosh and a first round pick to the Bulls for Noah. Noah does not need the Ball to be effective, he would be a perfect fit.


Thats not going to happen, lol.


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## Pay Ton (Apr 18, 2003)

The Bulls aren't trading Noah for Bosh, lol.

And no, I'm not saying Noah is a better player.

But the Bulls would never make that trade.


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## Ron (May 8, 2002)

Job said:


> I think the Heat should trade Bosh and a first round pick to the Bulls for Noah. Noah does not need the Ball to be effective, he would be a perfect fit.


Oh yeah. I can see Chicago going for this. Not. :whatever:


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## Pump Bacon (Dec 11, 2010)

For the short term, Amar'e would be a better big for the Heat since he's more aggressive and imo much more of a gamer. However for the long term there are looming health concerns and he probably doesn't have as strong of a relationship with James and Wade for whats it worth.

Miami has a ton of things stacked against them this season which is the case for a lot of other teams as well. They have a crappy supporting cast and with injuries throughout the season to key players like Wade, Miller, and Haslem they have failed to gel as much as they could have. 

Pau Gasol had to work on his game after losing in the Finals, Rose is now a good 3 point shooter, Richard Jefferson revamped his game in the last offseason for the Spurs, Caron Butler looked like he was on track to doing the same for the Mavs, etc. Chris Bosh and the Big 3 in general could really benefit by upgrading their games and even just improving on fundamental stuff like catch-and-shoot jumpers.

But Bosh has been pretty disappointing and looks more like a fringe-star especially when compared to Wade and James. Finesse bigs can just be painful to watch in general.


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## DunkMaster (Mar 1, 2011)

Bosh for Bargnani and Amir Johnson


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Bosh has been fine for the most part. I mean what do you expect out of a third option? The main thing he could stand to do is rebound a little harder on the offensive glass, and do more pick and rolls(like he did in Toronto), but for the most part he's solid and consistent.

The Heat's troubles always get pinned on Bosh, but the Heat were up 24 tonight behind great play by Lebron and Wade--and they lost behind horrible play in the second half by the same guys.

In fact if you look at all of the games the Heat have done poorly in...Dwade has a hand in the horror. I would say that Dwade is the key to the team. Lebron and Bosh do what they do. But DWade is beating up on the **** ball teams, and then not showing up in the big games. No real reason for it. But he needs to fix it.

If Wade had just been not terrible in the second half they would have won tonight.

So I'm blaming Wade. Winning and losing comes down to Wade and Lebron with the Heat. Pinning it on Bosh isn't fair because he's not really given that kind of responsibility.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Pay Ton said:


> The Bulls aren't trading Noah for Bosh, lol.
> 
> And no, I'm not saying Noah is a better player.
> 
> But the Bulls would never make that trade.



Well yeah especially since they already have their own soft power forward in Boozer.


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## Pay Ton (Apr 18, 2003)

futuristxen said:


> Well yeah especially since they already have their own soft power forward in Boozer.


Save your potshots for somebody else, lol.

I've been pretty vocal in my disdain for Boozer.

But yeah, essentially you're right. Why would we need another bitch ass power forward? We already have Booz.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Pay Ton said:


> Save your potshots for somebody else, lol.
> 
> I've been pretty vocal in my disdain for Boozer.
> 
> But yeah, essentially you're right. Why would we need another bitch ass power forward? We already have Booz.


Yeah the whole concept of that trade is flawed. Why would you give up a top center for a position you already have filled? Y'know.

Wade for Noah and Deng would probably be a more realistic question to pose. Though then you would basically just be the Miami Heat with Boozer instead of Bosh, and Rose instead of Lebron.


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## Ron (May 8, 2002)

This from the game thread on the Miami board:



sMaK said:


> And I admit it, Chris Bosh is soft like butter. That play at the end of the game where he got eaten up by Dwight and then cried to the ref for a foul... *epitome of his pussiness*. Really frustrating to watch us collapse over and over again.


:lol:


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

Rose and Wade is the same thing as Boozer and Bosh far as I'm concerned

I'm just trying to figure out the evidence in Toronto that implied he was anything more than a decent defender


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## Ron (May 8, 2002)

Okay, okay...so instead of the 3 super friends we really have 2½.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

:hano:

I used that joke waaay back.

So which one is Charlie. I'll say Wade because in a few years he's going to have a torrential breakdown


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## Ron (May 8, 2002)

Dre™ said:


> :hano:
> 
> I used that joke waaay back.
> 
> So which one is Charlie. I'll say Wade because in a few years he's going to have a torrential breakdown


I would agree...LeBron sometimes acts as his goofy brother.


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## BenDengGo (Feb 1, 2004)

Job said:


> I think the Heat should trade Bosh and a first round pick to the Bulls for Noah. Noah does not need the Ball to be effective, he would be a perfect fit.


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## BenDengGo (Feb 1, 2004)

Ron said:


> I would agree...LeBron sometimes acts as his goofy brother.


plus its wades "house" lebron moved into.


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## Ben (Nov 7, 2006)

DunkMaster said:


> Bosh for Bargnani and Amir Johnson


...Bargnani is even softer than Bosh.


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## jayk009 (Aug 6, 2003)

It's kinda sad because in his younger years when he was actually even more pinner he played alot more phyical then he does today.


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## Pinball (Aug 3, 2002)

Some people on the Lakers board have wanted to do Bynum for Bosh for years. I was never really a big fan of the proposed move, partly because I like Bynum's length, strength, and physical nature. However, even if he weren't all those things, I'd have been hesitant to acquire Bosh. I never liked his game. I thought his value was inflated because he put up big numbers on a mediocre team. He had some skills but certainly nothing out of this world. Combine a good, not great skill set with a vaginal mindset and your left with an ebony version of Big Z. A more athletic one, I'll grant you. There are a million skilled PFs out there but unless they are on the level of Duncan, Pau, or Dirk, you're better off acquiring a solid C like Nene or Bynum than a guy like Bosh if you have a good team and are looking to take the next step.


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## Tom (Jul 15, 2002)

Once he cut his hair Sampson lost his strength as did Bosh. Bring em back Bosh.


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## Tom (Jul 15, 2002)

Actually, I think swapping Bosh for Love would be perfect for both teams.


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## GrandKenyon6 (Jul 19, 2005)

Bogg said:


> Bosh is a better rebounder and, quite honestly, I'm not sure you want two bigs hanging out in the lane if you're running half-court sets with Lebron and Wade all night. The truth is Amare wouldn't have worked out much better in Miami because neither does the types of things you want from your third option. It's hard for high-scoring finesse bigs to maximize their talents playing alongside two guys getting up nearly 20 shots a night each. He has been an excellent scapegoat all season though, so there's that.


Not true at all. They would be infinitely better with Stoudemire. Stoudemire is the best "roll" player in the NBA. Pick & rolls with James or Wade and STAT would be devastating. Unlike Bosh he is terrific moving without the ball and getting in position to score. There is a monumental difference between a soft jump shooter and an aggressive power player. And Amare is a terrific jump shooter as well. Bosh is a marginally better rebounder than Stoudemire. Big deal. And he is not a better defender.


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## Noyze (Oct 7, 2010)

Gonna stick to what I've been saying. Heat are gonna lose a series simply because they aren't physical enough inside. Bosh is the main reason, they'd need a bulldog at center that makes an impact to win the whole thing. Too often do I see LeBron rotating down at lightning speed to block a shot or disrupt post play and entry passes. Joel Anthony does what he can but when it's time to crash and get tough key rebounds Bosh wont do it amongst other trees. 

So many of you acting like you knew this was gonna happen and you knew his game, but it's clear based on responses I read all year that nobody really saw Bosh play. Not even the media, with all the columns they wrote earlier this year when he was struggling. It didn't matter to you as much when he was doing it out of country on a .500 team that got no national TV coverage. You can't be considered overrated when nobody sees you right? He has to be good if he's putting up 22 & 10 every year right? Sure we saw highlights, we saw him play a few times, we thought we knew his game and weren't critical of it then cause we didn't care. He wasn't playing for anyone we wanted to see.


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## Tom (Jul 15, 2002)

He needs to be selfish.


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## Game3525 (Aug 14, 2008)

Pinball said:


> Some people on the Lakers board have wanted to do Bynum for Bosh for years. I was never really a big fan of the proposed move, partly because I like Bynum's length, strength, and physical nature. However, even if he weren't all those things, I'd have been hesitant to acquire Bosh. I never liked his game. I thought his value was inflated because he put up big numbers on a mediocre team. He had some skills but certainly nothing out of this world. Combine a good, not great skill set with a vaginal mindset and your left with an ebony version of Big Z. A more athletic one, I'll grant you. There are a million skilled PFs out there but unless they are on the level of Duncan, Pau, or Dirk, you're better off acquiring a solid C like Nene or Bynum than a guy like Bosh if you have a good team and are looking to take the next step.


Yup, if we had Bosh we would have the softest frontcourt in the league.


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## AirJay (Aug 5, 2005)

Noyze said:


> Gonna stick to what I've been saying. Heat are gonna lose a series simply because they aren't physical enough inside. Bosh is the main reason, they'd need a bulldog at center that makes an impact to win the whole thing. Too often do I see LeBron rotating down at lightning speed to block a shot or disrupt post play and entry passes. Joel Anthony does what he can but when it's time to crash and get tough key rebounds Bosh wont do it amongst other trees.
> 
> So many of you acting like you knew this was gonna happen and you knew his game, but it's clear based on responses I read all year that nobody really saw Bosh play. Not even the media, with all the columns they wrote earlier this year when he was struggling. It didn't matter to you as much when he was doing it out of country on a .500 team that got no national TV coverage. You can't be considered overrated when nobody sees you right? He has to be good if he's putting up 22 & 10 every year right? Sure we saw highlights, we saw him play a few times, we thought we knew his game and weren't critical of it then cause we didn't care. He wasn't playing for anyone we wanted to see.


This. No one on the boards was questioning him before the season started.

Perhaps all of this will be fixed if (barring a lockout) Dalembert comes to Miami next year as expected. Won't change the fact Bosh is a p****. 

And for those who say 49% is fine as a 3rd option...not when all you shoot are wide-open jumpshots.


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

It was a lot of fun watching Z-Bo own Bosh last November... Boxed him out like a little kid.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Okay now most of you are underrating Bosh. This is getting ridiculous.


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## Job (Feb 28, 2011)

futuristxen said:


> Okay now most of you are underrating Bosh. This is getting ridiculous.


I agree. He is a really good player who gets a lot of crap from you fans. The trade suggestion, Noah for Bosh, was not a joke. The Bulls need scoring and the Heat need rebounds. I was thinking of Omer Asik at C, Boozer PF, Bosh SF, Deng SG. Noah is a little overrated and even though I like him, I was a little upset at him because he let Hordford abuse him. He is always injured with foot problems or a broken hand.

Cris Bosh is Rashard Lewis.


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## Ron (May 8, 2002)

futuristxen said:


> Okay now most of you are underrating Bosh. This is getting ridiculous.


Adam Morrison and a large bag of BBQ potato chips for Chris Bosh.

We'll take him.


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## afobisme (Apr 29, 2006)

futuristxen said:


> Okay now most of you are underrating Bosh. This is getting ridiculous.


you just overrate him. he's never been the #1 or #2 option on a team that was actually decent enough to make it out of the first round. and now that he's option #3, it's obvious that he doesn't have the skills to make a positive impact without having the ball in his hands. so tell me how he is a good player? the only thing he's good at is shooting jumpers. he's a decent penetrator, rebounder, and help defender.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Job said:


> I agree. He is a really good player who gets a lot of crap from you fans. The trade suggestion, Noah for Bosh, was not a joke. The Bulls need scoring and the Heat need rebounds. I was thinking of Omer Asik at C, Boozer PF, Bosh SF, Deng SG. Noah is a little overrated and even though I like him, I was a little upset at him because he let Hordford abuse him. He is always injured with foot problems or a broken hand.
> 
> Cris Bosh is Rashard Lewis.


Chris Bosh is not a small forward. That would be a dumb deal for both the Heat and the Bulls. I mean if you actually watch the Heat, you see that he's the key pivot of their entire offense. His play on the elbow is integral to pretty much all of their offensive sets. Noah could not execute in that position. Getting Noah would just pack the paint even further, and the Heat would now have no power forward at all on the roster with Haslem injured.

Chris Bosh is Kevin Garnett with Dirk Nowitzki's brain...halved. His skill set is tremendous. He's a great slasher to the basket. Has a sweet mid range jumper. Has a decent post game. Can rebound okay. Plays terrific defense on the pick and roll.

He is without a doubt one of the best at his position. But like Gasol when he went to the Lakers, he needs to adjust how he is approaching the games. He doesn't know how to be a winner. He doesn't have tigerblood coursing through his veins.

But he could. This is all a learning experience. He hasn't been asked to be a winner his entire NBA career. But he's young still. And he's taking so many knocks right now, that you can't help but feel he'll turn the corner.

Goddamn people. Some knee jerk mother****ers. I hate having to come in and defend Chris Bosh pretty much every game. It's annoying. BUT it's worth it. Because I truly do see an incredibly talented young big in this league, who has the potential to be as important to the Heat winning championships as DWade.


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## afobisme (Apr 29, 2006)

futuristxen said:


> Chris Bosh is not a small forward


a guy who isn't physical, has no post game, and either shoots from the outside (or when his defender is respecting his shot, he penetrates)... he's definitely not a power forward. he's a small forward with the height of a power forward. actually, i would say that half of the shooting guards in the league are more physical than he is.


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## ~Styles~ (May 1, 2006)

> Chris Bosh is not a small forward. That would be a dumb deal for both the Heat and the Bulls. I mean if you actually watch the Heat, you see that he's the key pivot of their entire offense. His play on the elbow is integral to pretty much all of their offensive sets. Noah could not execute in that position. Getting Noah would just pack the paint even further, and the Heat would now have no power forward at all on the roster with Haslem injured.
> 
> Chris Bosh is Kevin Garnett with Dirk Nowitzki's brain...halved. His skill set is tremendous. He's a great slasher to the basket. Has a sweet mid range jumper. Has a decent post game. Can rebound okay. Plays terrific defense on the pick and roll.
> 
> ...




Dude you can try and bring a tear to my eye all you like but the guy is playing some mediocre ball right now.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

afobisme said:


> you just overrate him. he's never been the #1 or #2 option on a team that was actually decent enough to make it out of the first round. and now that he's option #3, it's obvious that he doesn't have the skills to make a positive impact without having the ball in his hands. so tell me how he is a good player? the only thing he's good at is shooting jumpers. he's a decent penetrator, rebounder, and help defender.


The same thing is true of Amare, but he doesn't catch half the flack because he got to ride coatails and win for some years in Phoenix.

I mean the Knicks this year with Amare weren't any different than Chris Bosh with the Raptors some of these years past. And if you think the Knicks were getting out of the first round you're delusional.

Amare is a number 3 option as well--as you will see because the Knicks will win **** all championships with him as the second best player on the team. Just like Phoenix did.

Amare plays worse defense than Bosh. Is more Injury prone. Also shoots too many jumpers. Doesn't really rebound that well either. They are essentially the same player, but Amare looks tougher, so he doesn't get the "soft" tag. That's it.

Or what about Dirk who is still getting knocked out of the first round of the playoffs every couple years despite having a much more talented team than Bosh played on before this year? 

Hate to break it to people, but all of the power forwards between Duncan/Garnett and Blake Griffin--that whole generation of power forwards: Boozer, Dirk, Amare, Bosh---all these guys are soft as **** and have huge problems on defense.

That's why Blake Griffin is in his rookie year already really almost the best PF in the league.

Singling out Bosh is just funny.


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## afobisme (Apr 29, 2006)

also, i don't think the heat's woes are all attributed to bosh. it's all 3 of them, and how their game doesn't complement each other. i felt this way since the 3 joined forces in july.



futuristxen said:


> The same thing is true of Amare, but he doesn't catch half the flack because he got to ride coatails and win for some years in Phoenix.
> 
> I mean the Knicks this year with Amare weren't any different than Chris Bosh with the Raptors some of these years past. And if you think the Knicks were getting out of the first round you're delusional.
> 
> ...


my problem with bosh is not that he's just soft, but he doesn't have any skillset other than shooting jumpers. and if he's making them he'll penetrate. that's all his game is. dirk, boozer, amare, pau, or any of the other top power forwards can mix it up. bosh can't.

nah, the same thing is not true about amare. amare has a better offensive skillset. he shoots a lot of jumpers, but he can do A LOT more than bosh does. he's a better penetrator than bosh, and he can operate closer to the basket. bosh is a better help defender, but amare is a better shot blocker. amare also doesn't fall to the ground when a feather hits him (ie he has much more strength than bosh).

i think amare is overrated too. i've always believed that. bosh, amare, and melo are the 3 guys in the league i feel are overrated. however, i think bosh is (or at least was) the most overrated out of the bunch though.


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## CosaNostra (Sep 16, 2010)

Job said:


> I agree. He is a really good player who gets a lot of crap from you fans. The trade suggestion, Noah for Bosh, was not a joke. The Bulls need scoring and the Heat need rebounds. I was thinking of Omer Asik at C, Boozer PF, Bosh SF, Deng SG. Noah is a little overrated and even though I like him, I was a little upset at him because he let Hordford abuse him. He is always injured with foot problems or a broken hand.
> 
> Cris Bosh is Rashard Lewis.


Yeah, I think the Bulls are chomping at their bit to make the Heat better.

And lol at Bosh playing SF.


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## Game3525 (Aug 14, 2008)

Job said:


> I agree. He is a really good player who gets a lot of crap from you fans. The trade suggestion, Noah for Bosh, was not a joke. The Bulls need scoring and the Heat need rebounds. I was thinking of Omer Asik at C, Boozer PF, Bosh SF, Deng SG. Noah is a little overrated and even though I like him, I was a little upset at him because he let Hordford abuse him. He is always injured with foot problems or a broken hand.
> 
> Cris Bosh is Rashard Lewis.


The Bulls aren't stupid, they give Noah to the Heat they are basically giving them the league for the next 5 years....well maybe till Dwight comes to LA.


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## Job (Feb 28, 2011)

I Think Chris is a small forward, He does not like contact. A power forward has good strength with the ability to post close to the basket, like Al Jefferson, Carlos Boozer or Al Hordford. Bosh has an allergic reaction when he gets to close to the rim. Although, Bosh does have a sweet mid range shot.


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## CosaNostra (Sep 16, 2010)

Job said:


> I Think Chris is a small forward, He does not like contact. A power forward has good strength with the ability to post close to the basket, like Al Jefferson, Carlos Boozer or Al Hordford. Bosh has an allergic reaction when he gets to close to the rim. Although, Bosh does have a sweet mid range shot.


You think he's a small forward? Have you ever watched a basketball game before?


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## afobisme (Apr 29, 2006)

also, i think dirk is better than bosh because he does something that bosh can't do (outside of stats). when the other team goes on an 8-0 run, dirk can hit a shot to stop the bleeding. those 2 points are worth more than 2 points in reality. dirk has an on/off switch, which is what makes him a team leader. it doesn't go in all the time, but he has that switch. amare, bosh and boozer don't have it.

so far this season, it seems like wade and lebron don't have that switch either.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

afobisme said:


> my problem with bosh is not that he's just soft, but he doesn't have any skillset other than shooting jumpers.


Actually he's very good at slashing to the basket. Good ball handler. Good passer. He does have a post game, at least as much as KG ever has. His post game is a fadeaway jumper basically, or a spin along the baseline under the basket. Before he got the Heat he was an adept pick and roll player, more than just pick and pop.

The Heat aren't using his full abilities right now--but that's because he's the third option. 

You only stress out about your third option when you have no contributions from players 3-8, and one of your top two guys is struggling. If the Heat were getting anything from Mike Miller, Chalmers, Bibby, or James Jones--it would take a lot of pressure off Bosh. As would if Dwade played better against the good teams.

I mean Bosh put up 26 on the Celtics the last time they played--he wasn't the issue. 

I think the blame for the Heat's struggles right now are everybodys really. In pretty much equal share. No one on that team is pulling their weight right now for a full 48 minutes.


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## Job (Feb 28, 2011)

Game3525 said:


> The Bulls aren't stupid, they give Noah to the Heat they are basically giving them the league for the next 5 years....well maybe till Dwight comes to LA.


No, you're wrong lol, Noah is injured a lot. If the Bulls had a guy like Bosh they would own the league. The Heat are going to add good role players eventually, and then there will be no more Bosh scape goat.


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## Babir (Jan 10, 2005)

> But like Gasol when he went to the Lakers, he needs to adjust how he is approaching the games. He doesn't know how to be a winner.


Gasol was traded to L.A. in the middle of the season and they reached finals that year and became champions next two seasons, with Gasol being second best player on the team. Gasol is much better player than Bosh, they are on different levels


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Job said:


> I Think Chris is a small forward, He does not like contact. A power forward has good strength with the ability to post close to the basket, like Al Jefferson, Carlos Boozer or Al Hordford. Bosh has an allergic reaction when he gets to close to the rim. Although, Bosh does have a sweet mid range shot.


Oh and Bosh actually is one of the best finishers around the basket for his position. He actually converts a higher percentage inside than Amare. He just doesn't utilize that aspect of his game that often. Though when he does you often wonder why it's not a more used aspect of the heat offense. He does go inside about twice as often as Dirk does though.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Babir said:


> Gasol was traded to L.A. in the middle of the season and they reached finals that year and became champions next two seasons, with Gasol being second best player on the team. Gasol is much better player than Bosh, they are on different levels


They are right now. But Gasol needed to get his ass kicked in the finals by the Celtics to get to the level he's at now. He got tired of being called soft and just started bossing teams in the playoffs after that. While Bosh has a more perimeter oriented game than Gasol--there is a lot of potential there for him to be a major problem for the rest of the league.


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

AirJay said:


> I am not usually a guy who jumps the gun over one bad loss.
> 
> But this is getting ridiculous.
> 
> ...


Props. Chris Bosh is the reason the Miami Heat didn't break the Bulls' regular season winning record.


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## Job (Feb 28, 2011)

CosaNostra said:


> You think he's a small forward? Have you ever watched a basketball game before?


I understand your response, but when Haslem returns, where will you position Bosh, at center?


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## afobisme (Apr 29, 2006)

futuristxen said:


> Actually he's very good at slashing to the basket. Good ball handler. Good passer. He does have a post game, at least as much as KG ever has. His post game is a fadeaway jumper basically, or a spin along the baseline under the basket. Before he got the Heat he was an adept pick and roll player, more than just pick and pop.
> 
> The Heat aren't using his full abilities right now--but that's because he's the third option.
> 
> ...


well, maybe you're right. maybe bosh can penetrate, but i don't see him doing it all that much. same thing with his post game. i mostly see him shoot 20 foot jumpshots.

i do agree that the heat's issues don't all boil down to bosh though. he's a big part of the problem though. i think all of their big 3 are equally to blame.



Babir said:


> Gasol was traded to L.A. in the middle of the season and they reached finals that year and became champions next two seasons, with Gasol being second best player on the team. Gasol is much better player than Bosh, they are on different levels


word. in 07-08, pau had a post game, face up game, and could shoot from the outside. he can do it all, at least on offense. on defense, pau was pretty soft that year but at least he could block shots and mix his offensive game up (unlike bosh).


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Job said:


> I understand your response, but when Haslem returns, where will you position Bosh, at center?


Where he plays now. Of the two of them Haslem is more likely to play center though. Lebron is more likely to play center than Bosh is to play small forward. He's not really quick enough to stay in front of most small forwards. And the Heat have Mike Miller to play there after Lebron anyways. Also have James Jones.

Bosh also doesn't have 3 point range really, which is a big problem if he's playing small forward.

Bosh is kind of the prototypical power forward of the post KG/Duncan era.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

afobisme said:


> well, maybe you're right. maybe bosh can penetrate, but i don't see him doing it all that much. same thing with his post game. i mostly see him shoot 20 foot jumpshots.


That's his role in the heat offense. He does drive to the basket, should do it more. But he's usually getting the ball wide open from about 15 feet which is a shot he hits at for his career an over 50 percent mark. So he takes it. But when the Heat get him moving he's a lot more effective. 

The problem is that neither Lebron or Wade have consistent enough outside games to play Bosh that way right now, because teams are already packing the paint on Lebron and Wade. Bosh has to take those open jumpers to open things up. Otherwise things bog down. If Bosh was just driving, there would be no spacing. He'd kick to Wade or Lebron for the same open jumpers which they shoot about ten percent worse than Bosh.

So to that extent, Bosh is problem is he is playing with two wing players who haven't yet developed a well rounded game.

Bosh would probably play a lot better with Kobe or Paul Pierce.


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## Job (Feb 28, 2011)

futuristxen said:


> Where he plays now. Of the two of them Haslem is more likely to play center though. Lebron is more likely to play center than Bosh is to play small forward. He's not really quick enough to stay in front of most small forwards. And the Heat have Mike Miller to play there after Lebron anyways. Also have James Jones.
> 
> Bosh also doesn't have 3 point range really, which is a big problem if he's playing small forward.
> 
> Bosh is kind of the prototypical power forward of the post KG/Duncan era.


Thank-you, that makes sense.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

He will be traded and that's when he will realize he's just a good role player


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## Game3525 (Aug 14, 2008)

Job said:


> No, you're wrong lol, Noah is injured a lot. If the Bulls had a guy like Bosh they would own the league. The Heat are going to add good role players eventually, and then there will be no more Bosh scape goat.


No, they wouldn't.

Chicago would still be Boston's bitch and Bosh gives them the same thing they have with Boozer. He doesn't make them a better basketball team, they would take a huge step back IMO if they traded Noah for Bosh.


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## Game3525 (Aug 14, 2008)

Job said:


> I understand your response, but when Haslem returns, where will you position Bosh, at center?


He will play PF like he did when Haslem was healthy....whom will come off the bench.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

HB said:


> He will be traded and that's when he will realize he's just a good role player


He won't be traded. There's no trade that they could make right now with Bosh as the principal piece that would for sure improve the team. They are better off keeping Bosh, and just getting a center this summer with the MLE, while continuing to develop Pittman.

Once Haslem comes back Haslem/Bosh is about as good a rotation at PF as you can get.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Not this summer of course, but you think if they go two seasons without winning the chip, they'll stick with the same team?


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## Game3525 (Aug 14, 2008)

It depends how far they go IMO. If they get really close(ECF or NBA Finals), but don't win the whole thing, then I don't see them making such a drastic move. But if they flameout in the first or second round, then you can expect huge changes and Bosh will be the scapegoat.


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## AirJay (Aug 5, 2005)

HB said:


> He will be traded and that's when he will realize he's just a good role player


I never said he was a role player. He is a good player, just overrated and pretending to be a 'star' player.

Also, he will not be traded. There is no way to recoup value on him, and no team in their right mind would ever give the heat a legit post threat in exchange. Miami's best hope is that he mans up, Lebron and Wade keep them afloat this season, and they luck into a center in the off-season.



futuristxen said:


> That's his role in the heat offense. He does drive to the basket, should do it more. But he's usually getting the ball wide open from about 15 feet which is a shot he hits at for his career an over 50 percent mark. So he takes it. But when the Heat get him moving he's a lot more effective.
> 
> The problem is that neither Lebron or Wade have consistent enough outside games to play Bosh that way right now, because teams are already packing the paint on Lebron and Wade. Bosh has to take those open jumpers to open things up. Otherwise things bog down. If Bosh was just driving, there would be no spacing. He'd kick to Wade or Lebron for the same open jumpers which they shoot about ten percent worse than Bosh.
> 
> ...


BS. I do not place all the blame on Bosh (see my comments in the Heat forum). But to suggest that Lebron and Wade's inability to shoot is the reason Bosh chooses to sit at the elbow and shoot jumpers is ludicrous. Trust me, if Bosh had a post game the Heat would be fully utilizing it and running the offense through him. In fact, they opened the 2nd half by trying to feed him in the low-post yesterday. As usual he showed that he has no post game whatsoever. Thus, Spoelstra is forced to keep him at the elbow.

And Kobe would have ripped him a new one by now. Good lord, if Kobe gets on Pau for being soft...



futuristxen said:


> Where he plays now. Of the two of them Haslem is more likely to play center though. Lebron is more likely to play center than Bosh is to play small forward. He's not really quick enough to stay in front of most small forwards. And the Heat have Mike Miller to play there after Lebron anyways. Also have James Jones.
> 
> Bosh also doesn't have 3 point range really, which is a big problem if he's playing small forward.
> 
> Bosh is kind of the prototypical power forward of the post KG/Duncan era.


Agreed. Bosh cannot play small forward. Or center. Too slow for one, too soft for the other.



PauloCatarino said:


> Props. Chris Bosh is the reason the Miami Heat didn't break the Bulls' regular season winning record.


A little overboard. The Heat still have other problems requiring addressing. He has been the biggest disappointment of this team, however, at least for me as a fan.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

AirJay said:


> As usual he showed that he has no post game whatsoever. Thus, Spoelstra is forced to keep him at the elbow.


Wait a minute. He scored on two out of those three plays, no?


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

AirJay said:


> Agreed. Bosh cannot play small forward. Or center. Too slow for one, too soft for the other.


Someone ripped Bosh a new ******* after the game. Look at his post game press conference. Dude looked like he had been bawling.

Or do you mean throw Bosh under the bus to the press? Because that would be a really bad idea.


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## AirJay (Aug 5, 2005)

futuristxen said:


> Wait a minute. He scored on two out of those three plays, no?





futuristxen said:


> Someone ripped Bosh a new ******* after the game. Look at his post game press conference. Dude looked like he had been bawling.
> 
> Or do you mean throw Bosh under the bus to the press? Because that would be a really bad idea.


Did he? I remember (maybe erroneously) him getting blocked by Bass on one play and missing a fadeaway jumper.

I do not think anyone ripped him anything. He looked pissed on his own after the game. The pressure is getting to him.


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## afobisme (Apr 29, 2006)

futuristxen said:


> That's his role in the heat offense. He does drive to the basket, should do it more. But he's usually getting the ball wide open from about 15 feet which is a shot he hits at for his career an over 50 percent mark. So he takes it. But when the Heat get him moving he's a lot more effective.
> 
> The problem is that neither Lebron or Wade have consistent enough outside games to play Bosh that way right now, because teams are already packing the paint on Lebron and Wade. Bosh has to take those open jumpers to open things up. Otherwise things bog down. If Bosh was just driving, there would be no spacing. He'd kick to Wade or Lebron for the same open jumpers which they shoot about ten percent worse than Bosh.
> 
> ...


so you're saying in an offensive system where the #1 and #2 options are known for their penetrating (and that's all they're really good at).. bosh should do the same thing?

do you get everyone's criticism here? all 3 players have overlapping abilities. all 3 do not provide anything other than outside shooting and penetration.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

afobisme said:


> so you're saying in an offensive system where the #1 and #2 options are known for their penetrating (and that's all they're really good at).. bosh should do the same thing?


Hmm...I was responding to the idea that Bosh can only shoot jump shoots. He can do more. But because of the offense and team he is on, he's asked to be more of a pick and pop player--though I'm not sure that's the best thing.



> do you get everyone's criticism here? all 3 players have overlapping abilities. all 3 do not provide anything other than outside shooting and penetration.


It's hard not to have overlapping skills when you are talking about Wade and Lebron. Who doesn't have overlapping skills with them? 3 point shooters and Dwight Howard?


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)




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## Ben (Nov 7, 2006)

That scream at 1.08 is epic


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## King Sancho Fantastic (Jul 19, 2005)

:lol: at the raptor scream


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## afobisme (Apr 29, 2006)

futuristxen said:


> It's hard not to have overlapping skills when you are talking about Wade and Lebron. Who doesn't have overlapping skills with them? 3 point shooters and Dwight Howard?


let's see... somebody who can post up, or shoot from range.




futuristxen said:


> Hmm...I was responding to the idea that Bosh can only shoot jump shoots. He can do more. But because of the offense and team he is on, he's asked to be more of a pick and pop player--though I'm not sure that's the best thing.


well, if you want to make a dirk/bosh comparison as you did before.. bosh never even made it out of the first round doing what you just mentioned, and he was the first option on his team. he's only made the playoffs twice in his career (as the #1 man). amare, in his first year with the knicks (before the melo trade) was well on his way to carrying his team to the playoffs, with little help.

dirk, on the other hand, has advanced to the 2nd and 3rd round, and had a finals appearance. the two are not comparable.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

Looks like Bosh is getting the extra attention he wanted by signing with Miami


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

afobisme said:


> let's see... somebody who can post up, or shoot from range.


I was thinking someone who can shoot from range, and block shots. Those are the two things Wade and Lebron don't do.


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## Spaceman Spiff (Aug 2, 2006)

lawl


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## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

I don't get the complaint here. Bosh is a pf that plays at the elbow but has two teammates that shoot 20 times a game. Then everyone acts shocked when they lose to a team with an elite big man. We all knew his defense was laughable at best and he has to rely on Ericka to pick up the slack? That's a formula for losing.


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## JT (Mar 1, 2004)

:rofl: @ the bosherator


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Hyperion said:


> I don't get the complaint here. Bosh is a pf that plays at the elbow but has two teammates that shoot 20 times a game. Then everyone acts shocked when they lose to a team with an elite big man. We all knew his defense was laughable at best and he has to rely on Ericka to pick up the slack? That's a formula for losing.


...his defense is quite good actually. Who was the last elite big man that went off on the heat? Dwight Howard has scored something like 12 points in the past 3 halves of basketball against him. They've been getting lit up in these losses by two guards.

He's playing better defense than Dwade is. His pick and roll defense is pretty excellent.


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## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

afobisme said:


> amare, in his first year with the knicks (before the melo trade) was well on his way to carrying his team to the playoffs, with little help.


The Knicks, pre-melo, were very competent at every position other than center. You can play winning basketball with Felton/Douglas as your point guard rotation and Fields/Gallo/Chandler as your swingmen. The idea that Amare was carrying that team by himself before Melo got there isn't correct, D'antoni's insistence on playing Chandler at power forward instead of developing Mozgov and his failure to install any type of defensive system is what kept the Knicks from being more than a .500 team, not talent.


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## ~Styles~ (May 1, 2006)

So is this official yet, or not?


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Bogg said:


> The Knicks, pre-melo, were very competent at every position other than center. You can play winning basketball with Felton/Douglas as your point guard rotation and Fields/Gallo/Chandler as your swingmen. The idea that Amare was carrying that team by himself before Melo got there isn't correct, D'antoni's insistence on playing Chandler at power forward instead of developing Mozgov and his failure to install any type of defensive system is what kept the Knicks from being more than a .500 team, not talent.


And incidentally the Knicks are dropping games left and right now that Melo is there. You take out that Heat victory they got, and the Melo-Amare era hasn't gotten off to a good start. Rather be where the Heat are than where the Knicks are.


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## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

futuristxen said:


> And incidentally the Knicks are dropping games left and right now that Melo is there. You take out that Heat victory they got, and the Melo-Amare era hasn't gotten off to a good start. Rather be where the Heat are than where the Knicks are.


Well, yea, obviously Miami's got a brighter outlook than NY, but the Knicks have a solid cast put together. Incidentally, if the new CBA restricts teams' ability to add players once they're over the cap(i.e. reduced/eliminated cap exceptions and such), Prokhorov could make a play on Bosh with Brook Lopez, Travis Outlaw(and his contract), and either Farmar or Vujacic. The Heat would pick up their post threat, a competent placeholder at point guard, and some bench depth, as well as the ability to slot Haslem into his natural 4 spot in the starting lineup, and the Nets would get their second all-star to keep Deron Williams happy and the crowds coming in to the new Brooklyn arena.


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## O2K (Nov 19, 2002)

futuristxen said:


> And incidentally the Knicks are dropping games left and right now that Melo is there. You take out that Heat victory they got, and the Melo-Amare era hasn't gotten off to a good start. Rather be where the Heat are than where the Knicks are.


This is absolutely true. I would also take the heat coaching staff and management over the knicks.


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## GrandKenyon6 (Jul 19, 2005)

Chris Bosh's defense is absolutely abysmal.


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

futuristxen said:


> And incidentally the Knicks are dropping games left and right now that Melo is there. You take out that Heat victory they got, and the Melo-Amare era hasn't gotten off to a good start. Rather be where the Heat are than where the Knicks are.



Oh, please. They've been together for what like 2 weeks. Even the Heat needed time to get used to one another. Still do at times..


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

Dissonance said:


> Oh, please. They've been together for what like 2 weeks. Even the Heat needed time to get used to one another. Still do at times..


You remember the dramatic future texan wanted to quit being a basketball fan in November due to the Heat's woes. He's not a very patient guy.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

I would be careful about turning a basketball conversation into a personal attack Jemel. Lest you want your posts to that effect edited with pictures of Andre The Giant.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

:laugh: you remind me of me futur (Switching allegiance easily). You have suddenly become a personnel expert on the Heat. Thing is you are absolutely wrong about Bosh' defense. The one thing I noticed in the last two games and maybe its not solely Bosh' fault since the perimeter guys are just letting guards blow by them easily, BUT the lane for the Heat is usually wide open. They give up way TOO much lay ups and dunks.


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## AirJay (Aug 5, 2005)

futuristxen said:


> ...his defense is quite good actually. Who was the last elite big man that went off on the heat? Dwight Howard has scored something like 12 points in the past 3 halves of basketball against him. They've been getting lit up in these losses by two guards.
> 
> He's playing better defense than Dwade is. His pick and roll defense is pretty excellent.


Sure it is. Does not change the fact that he cannot score unless he gets an open jumpshot.


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## ~Styles~ (May 1, 2006)

Dajuan Blair blow-by anyone?


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

~Styles~ said:


> Dajuan Blair blow up doll anyone?


I think you have that backwards, I'm pretty sure that it's Blair with the Chris Bosh blow-up doll. Or maybe that was actually RuBosh. Tough to tell sometimes.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

HB said:


> :laugh: you remind me of me futur (Switching allegiance easily).


My allegiances haven't switched. The player I'm following moved teams. Which is I assume the same situation as you(with Vince Carter). It's fun following a guy over the course of his career I think. Not for everyone, but I enjoy it. And don't really make an effort to disguise it.

As for the defensive issues you are alluding to, that's on the guards--mainly Chalmers and Wade. Bosh shows well on pick and rolls which is why most pick and rolls against the Heat are 1-5 pick and rolls. He moves his feet pretty well. He's never going to be a shot blocker. He could stand to learn to take charges though. I'm not saying he's going to be on the all defensive team, just that his defense is better than some guys at his position who play absolutely no defense...*cough Amare cough*

I think if you look at the numbers, you'll see the Heat give up one of the lower percentages of conversion within the paint. Their whole system is built on collapsing into the lane(thus Orlando and the Spurs annihilating them the last two games on 3 pointers). Bosh is usually good at closing out his man. But last night he like Wade was a step slow to it, even though he was guarding Bonner and had no real excuse not to be out there closing hard...


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

futuristxen said:


> I would be careful about turning a basketball conversation into a personal attack Jemel. Lest you want your posts to that effect edited with pictures of Andre The Giant.


You take an allegation of impatience as a personal attack?


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

:laugh: Wow.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Jamel Irief said:


> You take an allegation of impatience as a personal attack?


Talk basketball?


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## BlackNRed (Feb 9, 2005)

Chris Bosh sucks and is on my **** list. Dude makes 0 effort to play defense or get a tough rebound. -signed a Heat fan.

I can't even believe Coach Spotard tried to play him at the 5 last night right after the Heat cut the Spurs lead to 12(It then ballooned back up to 23 before he finally put Damp in.) What an A-hole.

It's beginning to look like to many morons on this team and 0 depth, that even Wade and LBJs skill can't bail out. Guess we'll wait and see.

People should take notice. This isn't the big 3. It's the big 2(with some of the worst scrubs ever.) Bosh was made to look elite because he played for Toronto. He's a fraud. His game is exactly like Haslem's... No seriously, exactly. Only difference is. Haslem plays defense and hustles.


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## Ron (May 8, 2002)

Heated said:


> People should take notice. This isn't the big 3. It's the big 2(with some of the worst scrubs ever.) Bosh was made to look elite because he played for Toronto. He's a fraud. His game is exactly like Haslem's... No seriously, exactly. Only difference is. Haslem plays defense and hustles.


Well, what did you expect, anyway?

You spent your entire wad on LBJ, Wade, and Bosh.

That's it.

You are never going to be able to surround those three with anything BUT scrubs. No money. That's why you are forced to sign over-the-hill point guards that even the Wizards want no part of.


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## Babir (Jan 10, 2005)

Looks like instead of Bosh, Pat Riley had to sign some solid/role players...


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## VeN (May 10, 2005)

lol they really are the nwo. bosh is xpac


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## BlackNRed (Feb 9, 2005)

Ron said:


> Well, what did you expect, anyway?
> 
> You spent your entire wad on LBJ, Wade, and Bosh.
> 
> ...


Well, I expected to have a big *3*, not 2.

I expected Bosh to be the player I thought he was. I knew he had defensive question marks coming in(that's an understatement as I now know,) but I didn't realize his offensive game was so limited as well. If Bosh was carrying his weight we wouldn't be struggling nearly as much against good teams.


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## MarioChalmers (Mar 26, 2004)

Heated said:


> Well, I expected to have a big *3*, not 2.
> 
> I expected Bosh to be the player I thought he was. I knew he had defensive question marks coming in(that's an understatement as I now know,) but I didn't realize his offensive game was so limited as well. If Bosh was carrying his weight we wouldn't be struggling nearly as much against good teams.


Lose 2 games. Doomsday. 

Don't even try to argue your way into concluding that this isn't a kneejerk reaction. It is.


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## afobisme (Apr 29, 2006)

Heated said:


> Well, I expected to have a big *3*, not 2.
> 
> I expected Bosh to be the player I thought he was. I knew he had defensive question marks coming in(that's an understatement as I now know,) but I didn't realize his offensive game was so limited as well. If Bosh was carrying his weight we wouldn't be struggling nearly as much against good teams.


it's hilarious how you're pinning all of this on bosh, when lebron and wade have done nothing to change up their games.


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## edabomb (Feb 12, 2005)

Bosh needs to change from this








to this


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## Noyze (Oct 7, 2010)

http://i.imgur.com/8V2UF.gif

.......................................................................................................................................................................................................................http://www.fraud-watch.org/images/vpsi-fw-biz-vs1.gif


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Riley spent all of the Heat cap on 6 players:
Lebron
Bosh
Wade
Miller
Haslem
Joel Anthony

Miller and Haslem being out/how slow Miller has been to recover from his injury--was a huge blow to a team already not that deep.

And though Joel Anthony has had his moments...well he's had his moments.


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## AirJay (Aug 5, 2005)

futuristxen said:


> Riley spent all of the Heat cap on 6 players:
> Lebron
> Bosh
> Wade
> ...


The injuries did not help.

But although Heated is a little overboard in his comments (Bosh is still better than Haslem due to his superior athleticism) it is true that this is a Big 2 right now. 

Some of the blame definitely is on LBJ and Wade for not incorporating Bosh well. Some of the blame could justly be assigned to the coaching staff.

I think what frustrates most Heat fans is how limited Bosh is in terms of his offensive repertoire. The lack of a post game especially depressing. We were sold a 3rd superstar, not a 3rd good solid player who rebounds and knocks down open shots. Our fault for not doing our research ahead of time.


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

18-8 out of Bosh, what more were people expecting? maybe he could be a little more efficient but I was thinking 17-8 from the get go


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Exactly. Bosh went from the focal point to the 3rd option. Of course his stats are going to go down. Anyone who was expecting him to dominate the glass and bully around players must have never watched a Raptors game. He is what he is, a good offensive big whos good defensively but gets pushed around by stronger bigs. Why in the hell would that change with a new jersey?

He's playing exactly how people should have expected him to. But like I said when this all went down, he'll be the first guy to get scape goated. It sure didn't take long.


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## BlackNRed (Feb 9, 2005)

For people defending Bosh it's not his offense I'm worried about (although he needs to be more aggressive and hesitate less) The guy gives minimal effort on the defensive end and continues to give his man free buckets. In my opinion the only truly bad defensive players are lazy defense players. That's what Bosh typically is.

Bosh is playing a solid game so far today though, I guess he feels the need to make up for the embarrassing 1-24 last time he played Chicago.


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## BlackNRed (Feb 9, 2005)

oops wrong thread.


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## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

e-monk said:


> 18-8 out of Bosh, what more were people expecting? maybe he could be a little more efficient but I was thinking 17-8 from the get go


All three guys are going to average 30ppg because it'll be impossible to double team anyone........or something like that......


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

e-monk said:


> 18-8 out of Bosh, what more were people expecting? maybe he could be a little more efficient but I was thinking 17-8 from the get go


I was quoted as saying he would get 14-10. I saw him as the Heat's version of Kukoc. I would say most people were expecting him to continue to get 20-10 if you read the threads in the offseason. Those people didn't watch a lot of Raptor games (or in actuality Cavs and Heat games if they thought he would get 20 alongside Wade and Lebron).


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## AirJay (Aug 5, 2005)

It is not his numbers that bother me. His stats are empty. It is his style of play that is discomfiting.


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

I thought he might be a little better on the boards and a little more efficient because he wasnt the defensive focus - that would be the amount of my disappointment - 3-4% better shooting and a couple boards - that's all I'd really hope for


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

The Heat should run more things for him in the half court, beyond pick and pops. He was really effective on the block against Boozer today, but as soon as the Big two came in it was back to the shadows for Bosh. Maybe once Haslem gets back, you make Bosh a sixth man so he can be the focal point of the offense for the second unit?


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## Game3525 (Aug 14, 2008)

Yeah right, the last thing Bosh needs for his confidence is to become the sixth man. Besides doing that would prove how stupid it was to give this guy a max contract.


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## Ron (May 8, 2002)

The guy really is a tall 3 when you analyze his game completely...he stands out at 16-17 feet for those jumpers, which are pretty good in my estimation.

El Heat are the ones that really needed Kendrick Perkins. Then they would really be unstoppable.


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## Ron (May 8, 2002)

Game3525 said:


> Yeah right, the last thing Bosh needs for his confidence is to become the sixth man. Besides doing that would prove how stupid it was to give this guy a max contract.


Toronto was going to do that too, which proves my point: Bosh, Amar'e, Joe Johnson, and many others are simply overpaid for what they bring to the game and their respective teams.


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## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

Ron said:


> Toronto was going to do that too, which proves my point: Bosh, Amar'e, Joe Johnson, and many others are simply overpaid for what they bring to the game and their respective teams.


Most of the teams with money would have given Bosh a max deal, the problem is that he's overqualified to be a third option and you typically don't carry three guys on max deals precisely _because_ you can get a third option for much cheaper. His numbers are okay, it just seems that people expected him to be an enforcer/hustle player for some reason. If he were traded to, say, New Jersey, he'd be putting up numbers similar to Amare and nobody would think twice about his contract.


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## afobisme (Apr 29, 2006)

Ron said:


> The guy really is a tall 3 when you analyze his game completely...he stands out at 16-17 feet for those jumpers, which are pretty good in my estimation.
> 
> El Heat are the ones that really needed Kendrick Perkins. Then they would really be unstoppable.


completely disagree. the heat, even with a good center, are still lacking in the PG spot (defensively). and offensively, the big 3 all do the same thing. their offense is atrocious. it's either they drive or shoot contested jumpers.

that said, they are still in a good position. if things don't work out, you could easily get someone good in trade (well, maybe not so much for bosh.. but still).


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## AirJay (Aug 5, 2005)

afobisme said:


> completely disagree. the heat, even with a good center, are still lacking in the PG spot (defensively). and offensively, the big 3 all do the same thing. their offense is atrocious. it's either they drive or shoot contested jumpers.
> 
> that said, they are still in a good position. if things don't work out, you could easily get someone good in trade (well, maybe not so much for bosh.. but still).


Their problems are not centered on defensive end. They lost this game and the Magic game because their offense went into long droughts in the 2nd half.

They really need a shooter. They have shooters on the roster but no one seems to be able to make shots consistently.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

The Heat got Bosh for less than what everyone else in the league was offering him, no? So in a sense they got him below market value.

To be honest, I'm not worried about that end of things. And really like Bosh said during the game, he probably has the biggest room for improvement of the big three. And the biggest adjustment to make.

One of the big three does need to be running more out of the post. It could be bosh, but it should be Lebron If Lebron fixes his post game, and DWade fixes his jumper--they can basically slot into similar roles as the Boston big three. You're still short a defensive center and point guard, but after the new CBA comes through, a lot of teams are going to be short a lot of things.

The Heat are really in the best position of any team in the league for a hard cap/lowered player movement. Because Celtics and Lakers are old, and over the cap--would need to shed talent to get under it. Same with the Magic who would have to shed players, and somehow convince Howard they were getting better. Bulls are capped with what they have now so could only improve with late first round picks from here on out. Same with the Thunder.

Heat wouldn't have to change much.

Heat probably should run more. Hard to do that though when you don't rebound.


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## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

afobisme said:


> that said, they are still in a good position. if things don't work out, you could easily get someone good in trade (well, maybe not so much for bosh.. but still).


Depends what you mean by good. They could definitely get something like Al Jefferson and another solid player, or a package from New Jersey including Brook Lopez and either Farmar or Vujacic. They aren't getting Deron Williams and a starting center for him though, if that's what you mean.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Or Stephan Curry, Beidrins, and David Lee for Bosh is probably closer to his actual value. The Nets don't really have much to give the Heat since Lopez is arguably the same problems as Bosh.


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## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

futuristxen said:


> Bulls are capped with what they have now so could only improve with late first round picks from here on out. Same with the Thunder.


The Bulls and Thunder are just about finished products, though. Chicago's still looking for a fifth starter at 2-guard and the Thunder could maybe use a backup small forward, but those are exactly the types of guys you can find at the end of the first round.


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## AirJay (Aug 5, 2005)

futuristxen said:


> The Heat got Bosh for less than what everyone else in the league was offering him, no? So in a sense they got him below market value.
> 
> To be honest, I'm not worried about that end of things. And really like Bosh said during the game, he probably has the biggest room for improvement of the big three. And the biggest adjustment to make.
> 
> ...


Sam Daman could fix that last part.


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## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

futuristxen said:


> Or Stephan Curry, Beidrins, and David Lee for Bosh is probably closer to his actual value. The Nets don't really have much to give the Heat since Lopez is arguably the same problems as Bosh.


Yea.......they're not getting Curry and a complete starting frontcourt for one player unless it's Wade or Lebron. Lopez doesn't present the same problems at all, he's a legitimate low-post threat and allows Haslem to be slotted into the starting lineup at his natural 4-spot. There are the obvious concerns about his rebounding, but the past two seasons he's shown the ability to be an adequate rebounder, and having Haslem/Lebron/Wade in the lineup will help mask those problems if they continue.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Bogg said:


> The Bulls and Thunder are just about finished products, though. Chicago's still looking for a fifth starter at 2-guard and the Thunder could maybe use a backup small forward, but those are exactly the types of guys you can find at the end of the first round.


The thing with the Thunder though is that isn't Westbrook and Harden both still on rookie contracts? They're going to have to shed salary to stay under and pay those guys as well--which means cutting some of your role players. Chicago is in a similar situation with Noah and I think Rose--who are both on rookie contracts, no? They can't afford to lose either of those guys--so under a hard cap that probably means getting rid of Deng and a slew of role players that make up their depth.

Same situation with the Clippers. All of these teams that are old and over the cap, are as screwed as teams that are young with guys still on rookie contracts--bust still at the cap. Even a team like the Knicks is basically stuck with what they have right now since Melo and Amare both took the full max.

Bosh Lebron and Wade all took a paycut so that they could pay for depth in Miller and Haslem... of course both guys got hurt this year--but the Heat are about as good as you can get under a hard cap situation. Teams like the Magic, Celtics, and Lakers have got fat off the soft cap--whereas Miami and Chicago haven't got to abuse that system yet.

It will be interesting to see how that all works out.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

:laugh: at the Nets trading for Bosh or the Warriors giving up Stephen Curry for him. This was a guy that even when he was the focal point of the offense he never advanced past the first round. Countless trips to the lottery by his team....man I'll just stop.


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## afobisme (Apr 29, 2006)

futuristxen said:


> Or Stephan Curry, Beidrins, and David Lee for Bosh is probably closer to his actual value. The Nets don't really have much to give the Heat since Lopez is arguably the same problems as Bosh.


keep dreaming. as you said, the heat did get bosh for less than the market value. but his stock has dropped dramatically. after laying those eggs, softness, his lack of versatility, and the inability to be a #1 or even a #2 option on a team... i really doubt teams are still interested in him as they were coming in the summer last year. 




Bogg said:


> Depends what you mean by good. They could definitely get something like Al Jefferson and another solid player, or a package from New Jersey including Brook Lopez and either Farmar or Vujacic. They aren't getting Deron Williams and a starting center for him though, if that's what you mean.


i was thinking of something along the linse of nene/felton for bosh. personally, i would trade 2 of the big 3. either wade or lebron have to go, because it doesnt seem like they can coexist. they can score 25 ppg but you can tell they just aren't in that groove that they're used to being in. maybe a lebron or wade for howard trade (if howard wants to leave). that's a real possibility.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Bogg said:


> Yea.......they're not getting Curry and a complete starting frontcourt for one player unless it's Wade or Lebron. Lopez doesn't present the same problems at all, he's a legitimate low-post threat and allows Haslem to be slotted into the starting lineup at his natural 4-spot. There are the obvious concerns about his rebounding, but the past two seasons he's shown the ability to be an adequate rebounder, and having Haslem/Lebron/Wade in the lineup will help mask those problems if they continue.


Well I'm sorry but you're not getting an efficient almost 20/10 guy who has proven in the past as a first option he's 25/10 guy--for flotsam and jetsam. 

That's why Bosh might be untradeable, because he's still worth more than whatever you could bring back. You'd need to get a significant bump in your PG and Center positions to validate a Bosh trade--and yet Bosh's value right now is not such that he could bring you back that.

I mean let's say they did your trade--I'm not sure that Lopez/Farmar make the Heat a better team than they are right now. Farmar pretty much sucks. So it's pretty much just Bosh for Lopez, and Lopez doesn't defend any better than Bosh. He also doesn't really rebound well for his position. You can play him in the post, but that just cuts driving lanes for Wade and Lebron. Just don't see him as much of a fit. 

The type of center they Heat need is Kendrick Perkins type. Lunchpail physical guy who rebounds the ball and plays great defense while being efficient when he does score. Even someone like Dahlembert would be a big help.


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## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

futuristxen said:


> Bosh Lebron and Wade all took a paycut so that they could pay for depth in Miller and Haslem... of course both guys got hurt this year--but the Heat are about as good as you can get under a hard cap situation. Teams like the Magic, Celtics, and Lakers have got fat off the soft cap--whereas Miami and Chicago haven't got to abuse that system yet.


Well, for starters, there isn't going to be a hard cap. However, the Heat are actually very poorly situated for a hard cap unless existing salaries are rolled back, because as those three near-max deals balloon up over 20 million a year they'll be committed to more than the cap in those three contracts alone. They'd have to dump Bosh, and probably Mike Miller as well. All three guys took a slight pay cut, but those contracts had max raises built in and those percentages really accumulate at that scale.


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## afobisme (Apr 29, 2006)

futuristxen said:


> Well I'm sorry but you're not getting an efficient almost 20/10 guy who has proven in the past as a first option he's 25/10 guy--for flotsam and jetsam.
> 
> That's why Bosh might be untradeable, because he's still worth more than whatever you could bring back. You'd need to get a significant bump in your PG and Center positions to validate a Bosh trade--and yet Bosh's value right now is not such that he could bring you back that.
> 
> ...


oh please. bosh's 25/10 were meaningless stats on a really bad team that couldn't make it out of the first round.. in 5 or 6 tries. sometimes numbers don't paint the whole picture. actually, i think it's most times.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

HB said:


> :laugh: at the Nets trading for Bosh or the Warriors giving up Stephen Curry for him. This was a guy that even when he was the focal point of the offense he never advanced past the first round. Countless trips to the lottery by his team....man I'll just stop.


Yeah? What's Steph Curry doing right now? I forgot that the Warriors were a perenial playoff team under his regime. Hard to throw stones from that glass house IMO. At least if you traded Curry for Bosh you'd get rid of the duplication of Curry/Ellis. If you got the Heat to throw in Joel Anthony as a sweetener--the Warriors might improve a whole five games.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

afobisme said:


> oh please. bosh's 25/10 were meaningless stats on a really bad team that couldn't make it out of the first round.. in 5 or 6 tries. sometimes numbers don't paint the whole picture. actually, i think it's most times.


What are Lopez's numbers then? His teams are even worse than Bosh's Raptor teams...as are his numbers. It goes both ways.

Also I'm in the camp that Bosh is untradeable right now. You're not going to be able to get a big of his talent very easily--whether you like him or not. As a third option on a top 4 team in the conference he's about 18/8-19/9--that's not easy to find without overpaying.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

So Bosh does what to those teams? Improves them?


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## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

futuristxen said:


> I mean let's say they did your trade--I'm not sure that Lopez/Farmar make the Heat a better team than they are right now. Farmar pretty much sucks. So it's pretty much just Bosh for Lopez, and Lopez doesn't defend any better than Bosh. He also doesn't really rebound well for his position. You can play him in the post, but that just cuts driving lanes for Wade and Lebron. Just don't see him as much of a fit.


Farmar's solid, he'd step in and be the best point guard on the roster from day one. As I said before, Lopez adds a dimension to the offense that the Heat simply don't have and also allows you to swap Dampier out of the lineup for Haslem, which is a positive. The numbers would require the Nets to add in someone like Outlaw, and Miami could probably get a pick back as well. When you look around the league and see what Denver and Utah just got for Melo and Deron Williams(and it was generally agreed upon that they got good value), getting a big man who's a good third option and some depth is a reasonable return on Bosh. When franchise players go for potential and depth you just aren't getting much more for a guy who you only get the ball to 13 times a night.


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## Game3525 (Aug 14, 2008)

Bogg said:


> Well, for starters, there isn't going to be a hard cap. However, the Heat are actually very poorly situated for a hard cap unless existing salaries are rolled back, because as those three near-max deals balloon up over 20 million a year they'll be committed to more than the cap in those three contracts alone. They'd have to dump Bosh, and probably Mike Miller as well. All three guys took a slight pay cut, but those contracts had max raises built in and those percentages really accumulate at that scale.


Exactly.

LA would be ****ed if there was a hard cap, but Miami wouldn't be that far behind. Out of the three "Super Teams", Boston is the one that is more situated in terms of dealing with the hard cap, if I am not mistaken most of their big contracts are gone after 2012?


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## afobisme (Apr 29, 2006)

futuristxen said:


> What are Lopez's numbers then? His teams are even worse than Bosh's Raptor teams...as are his numbers. It goes both ways.
> 
> Also I'm in the camp that Bosh is untradeable right now. You're not going to be able to get a big of his talent very easily--whether you like him or not. As a third option on a top 4 team in the conference he's about 18/8-19/9--that's not easy to find without overpaying.


i'm not saying curry or lopez are better than he is.. but they are definitely younger, and have more room and time to improve. with bosh, we already know his deficiencies.. and he won't likely correct them. ever. this vastly overrated version of bosh is the best you'll ever see him, because in 3-4 years he'll start to shoot even more jumpers.


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## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

futuristxen said:


> Yeah? What's Steph Curry doing right now? I forgot that the Warriors were a perenial playoff team under his regime. Hard to throw stones from that glass house IMO. At least if you traded Curry for Bosh you'd get rid of the duplication of Curry/Ellis. If you got the Heat to throw in Joel Anthony as a sweetener--the Warriors might improve a whole five games.


A deal structured around Curry and Bosh isn't far-fetched, it's that you also want Golden State's entire starting frontcourt as well. You simply are not getting a really good young point guard, a 16 and 10 power forward, and a solid defensive center for one player whose ceiling is "sidekick". It's wildly unreasonable.


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## afobisme (Apr 29, 2006)

it's not that far fetched but very unlikely. curry is only 2 years into the league, with lots of room to improve. bosh is in his 8th season, and he won't be getting any better.


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## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

HB said:


> So Bosh does what to those teams? Improves them?


Speaking specifically about the Nets, Bosh would give them a second all-star to convince Deron Williams to stay for the Brooklyn move. Getting Bosh would be huge for that franchise.


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## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

afobisme said:


> it's not that far fetched but very unlikely. curry is only 2 years into the league, with lots of room to improve. bosh is in his 8th season, and he won't be getting any better.


Either Curry or Ellis have to go, you aren't winning anything with that backcourt. Curry's an excellent complimentary player on offense, but he's not much of a creator or defender, so he's not untouchable. It's only a four-year age difference between the two, so it's not like they're getting much older with Bosh.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Bogg said:


> A deal structured around Curry and Bosh isn't far-fetched, it's that you also want Golden State's entire starting frontcourt as well. You simply are not getting a really good young point guard, a 16 and 10 power forward, and a solid defensive center for one player whose ceiling is "sidekick". It's wildly unreasonable.


What would be the reason to keep Lee if you got Bosh? Plus I think you would need him to get the salaries to match up.


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## Ron (May 8, 2002)




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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Never has such glee on a world wide scale, been derived from watching a non-championship team fail before. You have to hand it to them. I don't think most of their haters could have drawn up a better season long humiliation than this one. I suppose all that's left is to get knocked out in the first round by the Knicks.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

Ron said:


>


Great video!


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## Coatesvillain (Jul 17, 2002)

futuristxen said:


> Never has such glee on a world wide scale, been derived from watching a non-championship team fail before. You have to hand it to them. I don't think most of their haters could have drawn up a better season long humiliation than this one. I suppose all that's left is to get knocked out in the first round by the Knicks.


Sixers would have a better chance of knocking them out of the first round than the Knicks. That's most likely going to be the first round matchup.


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## Ron (May 8, 2002)

futuristxen said:


> Never has such glee on a world wide scale, been derived from watching a non-championship team fail before. You have to hand it to them. I don't think most of their haters could have drawn up a better season long humiliation than this one. I suppose all that's left is to get knocked out in the first round by the Knicks.


They brought it on themselves with this bull****...






I mean, look at these arrogant bitches in the video here and then look at their forlorn faces in the video after the Chicago game.

Serves them right.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

Randolph and mayo for bosh. I think Randolph would be a great PF for them.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Jamel Irief said:


> Randolph and mayo for bosh. I think Randolph would be a great PF for them.


They need a PG and a Center, not a PF and a SG? I mean once Haslem comes back the PF position is pretty much set. Mayo might be useful. Might. But the Heat could probably have gotten him at the deadline for Mike Miller and Dexter Pittman if they wanted.

Bosh for Marc Gasol and Conley would be a better trade for the Heat IMO.


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

futuristxen said:


> They need a PG and a Center, not a PF and a SG? I mean once Haslem comes back the PF position is pretty much set. Mayo might be useful. Might. But the Heat could probably have gotten him at the deadline for Mike Miller and Dexter Pittman if they wanted.
> 
> Bosh for Marc Gasol and Conley would be a better trade for the Heat IMO.


and of course no chance the Griz do that


----------



## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

futuristxen said:


> What would be the reason to keep Lee if you got Bosh? Plus I think you would need him to get the salaries to match up.


Because they need another player to start in the frontcourt? Playing Lee at center isn't ideal, but it's better than giving Ekpe Udoh 36 minutes a night. Lee actually makes the deal fiscally impossible, as Biedrins and Curry work fine. However, I'm not even sure how interested GS would be in a Curry/Biedrins swap, they really like Steph. A Bosh trade has to make sense for both teams.


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## Juggernaut (Jul 20, 2010)




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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Hold on. Let me get something straight here. They cried after losing to the Bulls yesterday? Like actually cried?

I have shotty internet at the rig so I can't really check and clips. 

Also, that Boozer/Bosh clip is great.


----------



## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

Spoelstra says they did. Why he would let that out I have no friggin idea.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

That's ****ing hilarious. What a bunch of pussies. Kind of solidifies the fact that they're just a bunch of overgrown spoiled brats. 

There's no crying in baseball.


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

Ah yeah, ruff-n-tuff, the Canadian way.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

I had a bowl of rusty nails today for breakfast. It's high in iron and keeps me with a tough mentality.


----------



## Ballscientist (Nov 11, 2002)

Who cried, LeBron or Wade?


----------



## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

R-Star said:


> That's ****ing hilarious. What a bunch of pussies. Kind of solidifies the fact that they're just a bunch of overgrown spoiled brats.
> 
> There's no crying in baseball.


Charles Oakley's response last night when he was asked if he ever cried after a tough loss: 

"What? HELL NO. Why? Do better. This aint little league."


----------



## kbdullah (Jul 8, 2010)

Spoelstra probably shouldn't have let it slip some of them were crying. Not a good look.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

kbdullah said:


> Spoelstra probably shouldn't have let it slip some of them were crying. Not a good look.


No, it definitely is not. I understand being upset, but throw a chair or something. Cry? Come on. That's just pathetic.


----------



## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

R-Star said:


> No, it definitely is not. I understand being upset, but throw a chair or something. Cry? Come on. That's just pathetic.


Honestly, I don't think it's that big of a deal. They were really frustrated, the moment got the better of them, whatever, I don't care. However, I'm thoroughly enjoying the fallout from this.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

If something goes wrong at work for me, I don't start crying. Crying is for children. Honestly, these guys are supposed to be men. 

A guy like MJ crying? Different. He isn't pouting after a loss. And this isn't me being anti-Lebron, I stood up for the guy on that stupid "You can't compare yourselves to soldiers!" garbage. But honestly. Soldiers? Maybe Scouts or Girl Guides.


----------



## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

R-Star said:


> I had a bowl of rusty nails today for breakfast. It's high in iron and keeps me with a tough mentality.


I eat apples with razorblades in them. Good for my gums. Then I wash it down with a big glass of rock juice. It gives me my daily dose of minerals. Plus it tastes good.


----------



## Pinball (Aug 3, 2002)

Jamel Irief said:


> Randolph and mayo for bosh. I think Randolph would be a great PF for them.


Bosh is great because he's got a second/third banana mindset. He won't get upset if you ignore him on offense. I think Randolph would break Lebron or Wade in half if they ignored him down the stretch like they ignored Bosh yesterday. From a toughness, physicality standpoint, he'd certainly be an upgrade.


----------



## Pinball (Aug 3, 2002)

R-Star said:


> And this isn't me being anti-Lebron, I stood up for the guy on that stupid "You can't compare yourselves to soldiers!" garbage. But honestly. Soldiers? Maybe Scouts or Girl Guides.


I think he's still at war in his mind. I mean, soldiers cry don't they? Admit it, you wan't Lebron on that wall. You need him on that wall.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Hyperion said:


> I eat apples with razorblades in them. Good for my gums. Then I wash it down with a big glass of rock juice. It gives me my daily dose of minerals. Plus it tastes good.


I get someone to hit me repeatedly in the back of the head with a baseball bat while I eat plutonium sandwiches for lunch. R-Star is nuclear powered. Plus the repeated blows to the head could explain my posting style.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Pinball said:


> I think he's still at war in his mind. I mean, soldiers cry don't they? Admit it, you wan't Lebron on that wall. You need him on that wall.


As long as his vision isn't blurred by the tears when I need him to take down the enemy. 

Kobe Bryant cries bullets any time hes running low on ammo.


----------



## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

R-Star said:


> I get someone to hit me repeatedly in the back of the head with a baseball bat while I eat plutonium sandwiches for lunch. R-Star is nuclear powered. Plus the repeated blows to the head could explain my posting style.


I use knitting needles as headphones when I go running so they don't fall out. I have someone shave off the top layers of skin with an electric planer because it's old skin and I like to look fresh.


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## Pump Bacon (Dec 11, 2010)

Pro athletes generally cry even if they win or lose.....but thats generally reserved for playoffs/championship games.

Spo's not doing himself or his team any favors by announcing two of the Heaters were crying. Is he just asking to be fired???


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Hyperion said:


> I use knitting needles as headphones when I go running so they don't fall out. I have someone shave off the top layers of skin with an electric planer because it's old skin and I like to look fresh.


I used to work in a coal mine when I was younger. They pulled me into the office one day and said I was going through way too many pick axes and that I would need to slow down because they were running out. After that I started breaking the coal out with my bear hands. I decided to look for another job a few days later when I hit a coal seam so hard that the mountain collapsed, killing 38 other workers. They could never pin the blame on me in their reports, but everyone knew what had happened when the rescue crew witnessed me punching my way out of the rubble.

Ever since that day they've called me R-Star. I don't cry when I lose a basketball game.


----------



## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

R-Star said:


> I used to work in a coal mine when I was younger. They pulled me into the office one day and said I was going through way too many pick axes and that I would need to slow down because they were running out. After that I started breaking the coal out with my bear hands. I decided to look for another job a few days later when I hit a coal seam so hard that the mountain collapsed, killing 38 other workers. They could never pin the blame on me in their reports, but everyone knew what had happened when the rescue crew witnessed me punching my way out of the rubble.
> 
> Ever since that day they've called me R-Star. I don't cry when I lose a basketball game.


I worked in a slaughterhouse for a day. I was let go because i would punch the cows to death. there was nothing left of them after one punch. Then I worked for a fishing boat in the north pacific. I was let go because I sank the ship when I shouted at the fish to get in the boat. I swam 436 miles to shore, only to have caused a tidal wave in Indonesia with my awesome kicks.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

It sounds like fate has us planned to meet one day, and cause the destruction of the world in the epic battle that ensues. 










*"Nooooooo! Don't do it!"*


----------



## Ron (May 8, 2002)




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## kbdullah (Jul 8, 2010)

(In response to thread title) 

Do we even know if Bosh was the one crying though? Spo said it was more than one and Bosh said it wasn't him. Plus, it wasn't Bosh's fault they lost this one. Of the big three, Wade played the worst, with 7 TOs and poor shooting. They didn't get much from Dampier or their bench either.


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## afobisme (Apr 29, 2006)

oh god, it's hilarious.. i'm watching the heat celebration. and wade says they are possibly the best trio in the history of basketball. before ever stepping foot on the court.

"visitors, beware!" hahah

can't find the last clip where lebron said... not 1, not 2, not 3.."


----------



## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

R-Star said:


> It sounds like fate has us planned to meet one day, and cause the destruction of the world in the epic battle that ensues.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You'd better hope this isn't a Highlander situation but more of a Gilgamesh one. I wouldn't want to have to decapitate you.


----------



## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

So who remembers last year, when the Celtics lost to the Nets and Grizzlies at home, the entire fanbase was ****ting bricks (except me, of course), they went 5-8 to end the season, hope going into the playoffs was non-existent, and then what do you know - they take the Lakers to 7 games in the Finals and likely would have won if not for Ray Allen's ****tardery. And this Heat team is statistically better than last year's Celtics, and has better players.

I think I'm going to start archiving these anti-Heat/anti-LeBron/LOL THERE CRYING posts and just throw 'em all back up in June, for my amusement.


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Floods said:


> So who remembers last year, when the Celtics lost to the Nets and Grizzlies at home, the entire fanbase was ****ting bricks (except me, of course), they went 5-8 to end the season, hope going into the playoffs was non-existent, and then what do you know - they take the Lakers to 7 games in the Finals and likely would have won if not for Ray Allen's ****tardery. And this Heat team is statistically better than last year's Celtics, and has better players.
> 
> I think I'm going to start archiving these anti-Heat/anti-LeBron/LOL THERE CRYING posts and just throw 'em all back up in June, for my amusement.


Oh god it would be a hilarious day if they do end up winning a title. So many people are invested in them losing in the most humiliating ways possible, that i think we'd need a lockout just to cope. Plus if the Heat win a title this year--it only gets easier for them.


----------



## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

futuristxen said:


> Oh god it would be a hilarious day if they do end up winning a title. So many people are invested in them losing in the most humiliating ways possible, that i think we'd need a lockout just to cope. Plus if the Heat win a title this year--it only gets easier for them.


----------



## Pay Ton (Apr 18, 2003)

I love the "YOU'LL EAT CROW!" statements, lol. 

Especially when nobody (or not many people) are claiming the Heat aren't good enough to win it all, they're just razzing on them for being, well...douches. Crying. Wanting to chill. They're just an unlikeable team. Nobody is saying they suck.

If they win the title, they'll still be unlikeable. And bumping old threads to say "haha" is just going to look stupid.


----------



## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

Pay Ton said:


> I love the "YOU'LL EAT CROW!" statements, lol.
> 
> Especially when nobody (or not many people) are claiming the Heat aren't good enough to win it all, they're just razzing on them for being, well...douches. Crying. Wanting to chill. They're just an unlikeable team. Nobody is saying they suck.
> 
> If they win the title, they'll still be unlikeable. And bumping old threads to say "haha" is just going to look stupid.


Oh god it's starting.

IT DOESNT MATTER IF THEY WIN, THEY'RE STILL UNLIKEABLE! _HUMPH_!


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## CosaNostra (Sep 16, 2010)

I would be surprised if the Heat won, but not because they aren't talented enough. They're definitely good enough to win it all. I just don't see them having the heart, chemistry and toughness to do it. They could win 8 championships like LeBron said they would and they'll still be unlikable though. Especially with how much ESPN talks about them. It's just ridiculous.


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

Floods said:


> Oh god it's starting.
> 
> *IT DOESNT MATTER IF THEY WIN, THEY'RE STILL UNLIKEABLE! HUMPH!*


Moot point, cause they won't win.

I, for one, am concerned about Lebron: first, he started losing his hair; now, uncontrolabre crying spurts. Whatch out, Lebron, next time it could be your penis (kids, don't do drugs!)


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## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

Great article:

One-Dimensional LeBron James Continues to Fail Fatally Flawed Miami Heat in Crunch Time


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

PauloCatarino said:


> Moot point, cause they won't win.
> 
> I, for one, am concerned about Lebron: first, he started losing his hair; now, uncontrolabre crying spurts. Whatch out, Lebron, next time it could be your penis (kids, don't do drugs!)


Oh, speaking of douches...



CosaNostra said:


> I would be surprised if the Heat won, but not because they aren't talented enough. They're definitely good enough to win it all. I just don't see them having the heart, chemistry and toughness to do it. They could win 8 championships like LeBron said they would and they'll still be unlikable though. *Especially with how much ESPN talks about them.* It's just ridiculous.


Kinda struggling to see what this has to do with anything. How's it their fault that ESPN won't shut the hell up about them? That's like deciding to hate some girl at your school because nobody will stop talking about that nasty breakup she just went through.


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## Pay Ton (Apr 18, 2003)

Floods said:


> Oh god it's starting.
> 
> IT DOESNT MATTER IF THEY WIN, THEY'RE STILL UNLIKEABLE! _HUMPH_!


Huh? They are.

You seem to have a strange concession that they're going to win as well. Are you a Celtics fan? Or a Heat fan? I'm confused.

If you're a Heat fan, never mind, but really I think the Celtics are (well...were definitely, now it might be up in the air) better than the Heat.

Anyway, relax bucko. Unlikeable teams will always be picked on. Bump old threads all you want. That isn't going to change.


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## IMPECCABLE (Dec 24, 2010)

This is too funny. CRYING?? lol ..DURING THE REGULAR SEASON?? come on man. I don't care how passionate you are about winning; just pack your bags and play your ass off the next game. Simple as that. Damn I hope nobody I mean NOBODY feel sorry for these crybabies. Bunch of p******.


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

TM said:


> Great article:
> 
> One-Dimensional LeBron James Continues to Fail Fatally Flawed Miami Heat in Crunch Time


I'm not reading through the second half of that... if somebody wants to quote the lines that actually have something relevant to say, have at it.


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## Pay Ton (Apr 18, 2003)

I didn't even read the article.

I stopped reading at "One dimensional Lebron James".


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

Pay Ton said:


> Huh? They are.
> 
> You seem to have a strange concession that they're going to win as well. Are you a Celtics fan? Or a Heat fan? I'm confused.


Celtics fan. Why do you ask?



> If you're a Heat fan, never mind, but really I think the Celtics are (well...were definitely, now it might be up in the air) better than the Heat.


Terrific.


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## CosaNostra (Sep 16, 2010)

Floods said:


> Kinda struggling to see what this has to do with anything. How's it their fault that ESPN won't shut the hell up about them? That's like deciding to hate some girl at your school because nobody will stop talking about that nasty breakup she just went through.


Didn't LeBron use ESPN to host an hourlong special about himself last summer? Or was that Fox Sports? Because I was almost 100% certain that they partnered together. Could have sworn they called it "The Decision" or some ****.


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

CosaNostra said:


> Didn't LeBron use ESPN to host an hourlong special about himself last summer? Or was that Fox Sports? Because I was almost 100% certain that they partnered together. Could have sworn they called it "The Decision" or some ****.


I believe so. Why do you ask?


----------



## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

Floods said:


> Oh, speaking of douches...


Don't be so serious, dude... You KNOw we don't take you seriously


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

CosaNostra said:


> Didn't LeBron use ESPN to host an hourlong special about himself last summer? Or was that Fox Sports? Because I was almost 100% certain that they partnered together. Could have sworn they called it "The Decision" or some ****.


Jim Grey actually came up with the idea, according to Jim Grey. He was at a game with Maverick Carter and pitched it to him, Maverick Carter thought it was a good idea--and the rest is history.

ESPN can shovel positive Heat content as fast as negative. They don't care. This team is a bonanza for ratings/web site hits. If you hate them you read it. If you love them you read it. Their ratings are incredible for a team that has won nothing, led by a player who has continually lost in the playoffs.


----------



## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

R-Star said:


> After that I started breaking the coal out with my bear hands.


----------



## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

futuristxen said:


> ESPN can shovel positive Heat content as fast as negative. They don't care. This team is a bonanza for ratings/web site hits. If you hate them you read it. If you love them you read it. Their ratings are incredible for a team that has won nothing, led by a player who has continually lost in the playoffs.


One thing's for sure: the Heat are the story to follow. 
even if they don't get far in the playoffs, a thousand stories will be writen about the Heat's season. It's too big of a novel to pass (from the media point of view).


----------



## afobisme (Apr 29, 2006)

the heat aren't a bad team. their record is good. that's not the problem. they're just not as good as everyone (including themselves) was expecting them to be. 

using the celtics struggles last year and comparing it to the heat's woes.. it's totally wrong on so many levels. first, boston was a team that had proven itself by winning a championship. secondly, the heat are desperately trying to prove themselves right now. the celtics weren't really concerned with proving anything to anyone, because they were already proven.

remember phil jackson's first year with the lakers? they had a 67-15 record. they had something to prove.

remember when the lakers traded for pau? they added a HUGE piece to the team. the first full season after losing to the celtics, they had something to prove. 65-17 record.

remember boston's first year with the big 3? 66-16. they had something to prove.

the heat aren't looking that great, even though they have MORE to prove than those lakers/celtics teams (look at all the eyes, haters, and naysayers against them).


----------



## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

Adam Morrison is still out there if the Heat are looking to build a extrovert emotive squad that really cares about losing


----------



## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

afobisme said:


> using the celtics struggles last year and comparing it to the heat's woes.. it's totally wrong on so many levels. first, boston was a team that had proven itself by winning a championship. secondly, the heat are desperately trying to prove themselves right now. the celtics weren't really concerned with proving anything to anyone, because they were already proven.


Yeah, Boston totally tanked it against the Nets, Grizzlies, and whoever else. Good call.

This whole debate of who does and who doesn't have something to prove is junk, because at the end of the day, _everyone's_ trying to win their games, unless they're playing for a good lottery spot.

The bad stretches are similar to last year's Celtics, the criticism of the team for looking bad, disinterested, whatever is the same. The very mentally stimulating internet-forum-urchins-criticize-celebrities-for-not-being-manly-enough routine is new this year, but we've already covered how much ESPN likes to stir the pot on these things.

All I'm saying is, we've seen this same song and dance before. NBA title frontrunner has underwhelming regular season, people start voicing concerns, getting progressively louder, and then playoff time comes and boom, title, or at the very least a nice deep playoff run.


----------



## MLKG (Aug 25, 2003)

Floods said:


> All I'm saying is, we've seen this same song and dance before. NBA title frontrunner has underwhelming regular season, people start voicing concerns, getting progressively louder, and then playoff time comes and boom, title, or at the very least a nice deep playoff run.


And we've also seen the other song where they lose in the second round.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Floods said:


> Oh god it's starting.
> 
> IT DOESNT MATTER IF THEY WIN, THEY'RE STILL UNLIKEABLE! _HUMPH_!


"Its starting"? What's starting? People saying they don't like the team? Uh oh. I guess that somehow makes your point.

Don't be ****ing stupid. If they win a title, they win a title and deserve praise for it. No one here will be coming up with excuses, no one here will be saying they cheated, or saying they don't deserve it. That doesn't mean we have to _like_ them though.

Not sure why that's hard to get. Hopefully your contrarian stance makes you feel cool though.


----------



## afobisme (Apr 29, 2006)

Floods said:


> Yeah, Boston totally tanked it against the Nets, Grizzlies, and whoever else. Good call.
> 
> This whole debate of who does and who doesn't have something to prove is junk, because at the end of the day, _everyone's_ trying to win their games, unless they're playing for a good lottery spot.
> 
> ...


oh please.. it's like saying "statistics paints you the whole story." there is more beneath the surface, and it's called human nature. the world is not all in black and white. you really can't see this? i can guarantee you the lakers and celtics wanted the title more when they won their first titles (in recent history) because they were hungrier. that's part of human nature. i think this is what makes phil jackson special among other coaches. he seems to notice and prepare the human nature side of basketball a lot more than others. players are players, but they're also humans too.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

futuristxen said:


> Jim Grey actually came up with the idea, according to Jim Grey. He was at a game with Maverick Carter and pitched it to him, Maverick Carter thought it was a good idea--and the rest is history.
> 
> ESPN can shovel positive Heat content as fast as negative. They don't care. This team is a bonanza for ratings/web site hits. If you hate them you read it. If you love them you read it. Their ratings are incredible for a team that has won nothing, led by a player who has continually lost in the playoffs.


"No no! It was Jim Grey! Lebron didn't even wanna!" :laugh:


----------



## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

MLKG said:


> And we've also seen the other song where they lose in the second round.


Yes we have. But I like those odds with LeBron James and Dwyane Wade on the same team.



R-Star said:


> "Its starting"? What's starting? People saying they don't like the team? Uh oh. I guess that somehow makes your point.
> 
> Don't be ****ing stupid. If they win a title, they win a title and deserve praise for it. No one here will be coming up with excuses, no one here will be saying they cheated, or saying they don't deserve it. That doesn't mean we have to _like_ them though.


I never had anyone had to like them, I just like to point out how dumb most of their reasoning is.



> Not sure why that's hard to get. Hopefully your contrarian stance makes you feel cool though.


Pfft. Go eat some nails.


----------



## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

afobisme said:


> oh please.. it's like saying "statistics paints you the whole story." there is more beneath the surface, and it's called human nature. the world is not all in black and white. you really can't see this? i can guarantee you the lakers and celtics wanted the title more when they won their first titles (in recent history) because they were hungrier. that's part of human nature. i think this is what makes phil jackson special among other coaches. he seems to notice and prepare the human nature side of basketball a lot more than others. players are players, but they're also humans too.


That's... cool? Dunno where you're going with this.


----------



## afobisme (Apr 29, 2006)

Floods said:


> That's... cool? Dunno where you're going with this.


well, no point in me explaining if you don't have the capacity to understand basketball outside of the x's and o's.


----------



## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

afobisme said:


> well, no point in me explaining if you don't have the capacity to understand basketball outside of the x's and o's.


Do it anyway, I want to see exactly what you were getting at with that post.


----------



## afobisme (Apr 29, 2006)

Floods said:


> Do it anyway, I want to see exactly what you were getting at with that post.


my point is that players and teams are hungrier when they have something to prove. it's a point of motivation. you're saying "players play hard regardless." it's like saying antoine walker makes $9 million a year, so he should be playing as hard as as any other guy who makes that amount of money. 

the lakers, for example, won a lot of games and championships so they had fallen asleep up to the all star break. but now with their sights set, they've won 7 games in a row. you can't tell me they were trying as hard earlier in the season as they are now, because they just weren't. 

i was a naysayer against the heat from the start, but i thought they'd be doing better than they are right now.. since it would be their first season together.

btw you've heard of the expression of something like "it's harder staying at the top than it is getting there" right?


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Its dumb to not personally like Lebron James and the Heat? Why exactly is that?


----------



## afobisme (Apr 29, 2006)

if anything, it's dumb to personally like lebron james and the heat. i still like wade though, even if his game is limited.


----------



## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

R-Star said:


> Its dumb to not personally like Lebron James and the Heat? Why exactly is that?


Go back and reread the post. Carefully.


----------



## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

afobisme said:


> my point is that players and teams are hungrier when they have something to prove. it's a point of motivation. you're saying "players play hard regardless." it's like saying antoine walker makes $9 million a year, so he should be playing as hard as as any other guy who makes that amount of money.


Antoine Walker's a bad example (as well as just being one player on a team). Obviously guys with albatross contracts they know they aren't worth aren't going to want to do anything besides hide on the bench.

Besides that, good teams are good teams. They're all trying to win, so broadly speaking, over a number of games (especially regular season), it's not going to make that much difference how 'hungry' anyone is.



> the lakers, for example, won a lot of games and championships so they had fallen asleep up to the all star break. but now with their sights set, they've won 7 games in a row. you can't tell me they were trying as hard earlier in the season as they are now, because they just weren't.


They weren't, but what difference is it making? In early March? You win some, you lose some. You play well, you play worse. You have good stretches, you have bad stretches. You seem to think that on any given night you can gauge from the results that one team wasn't trying as hard or something.


----------



## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

afobisme said:


> if anything, it's dumb to personally like lebron james and the heat. i still like wade though, even if his game is limited.


Bahahahaha. Do I even want to know?


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Floods said:


> Go back and reread the post. Carefully.


Yea..... I did read your post. You wrote this: 



Floods said:


> I never had anyone had to like them, I just like to point out how dumb most of their reasoning is.


Dumb most of our reasoning is? Its been well documented why people dislike Lebron James. So far you've come in here throwing a fit saying "Oh YEA! Well I'll bump this thread when they win BItchEZ!" to which we replied "Oh ok. Go ahead."

Honestly, your stance here is so asinine. If they win, they win. Good for them. I still don't like them, even if you keep throwing your tantrum and telling everyone how "dumb their reasoning is"


Or do you want to keep posting and sway us to like the Heat if they win the title this year?


----------



## JT (Mar 1, 2004)

I haven't been here in awhile, but is there a concerted effort being made to merge every single topic thats tangentially related to another? if so, thats quite useless and confusing.

I came into this thread, read the first post expecting something very different.


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

There was no merging. Only evolution!


----------



## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

R-Star said:


> Yea..... I did read your post. You wrote this:
> 
> 
> 
> Dumb most of our reasoning is?


Oh god. Do you really think I'm this thick? The first thing you posted was "Its dumb to not personally like Lebron James and the Heat?", which is a strawman, because I never said that. What I actually did is attack the reasoning behind it, which is kind of a different animal.

The idea itself isn't dumb, but most of the crap people put forth like 'I don't like him because he doesn't act how I like my athletes to act' (that seems to be the general consensus) is just the most petty, narrow minded bull****. And I call it out, because I can.



> Its been well documented why people dislike Lebron James.


They have the right to dislike him, and I have the right to express how hilariously stupid I think you guys sound when you're explaining yourselves, if you can call it that.



> So far you've come in here throwing a fit saying "Oh YEA! Well I'll bump this thread when they win BItchEZ!" to which we replied "Oh ok. Go ahead."


Fail.



> Honestly, your stance here is so asinine. If they win, they win. Good for them. I still don't like them, even if you keep throwing your tantrum and telling everyone how "dumb their reasoning is"


What tantrum? You guys amuse me with this stuff. Especially you, with your barely-coherent 'tantrums' that mostly center around how much more of a MAN you are than these pussy American rich kids. Good stuff.



> Or do you want to keep posting and sway us to like the Heat if they win the title this year?


lol


----------



## Game3525 (Aug 14, 2008)

Floods said:


> So who remembers last year, when the Celtics lost to the Nets and Grizzlies at home, the entire fanbase was ****ting bricks (except me, of course), they went 5-8 to end the season, hope going into the playoffs was non-existent, and then what do you know - they take the Lakers to 7 games in the Finals and likely would have won if not for Ray Allen's ****tardery. And this Heat team is statistically better than last year's Celtics, and has better players.
> 
> I think I'm going to start archiving these anti-Heat/anti-LeBron/LOL THERE CRYING posts and just throw 'em all back up in June, for my amusement.


The Celtics had already been there and won, and they never had the amount of pressure the Heat have faced. Also Boston, even when they were mailing in games, they still were able to beat some of the elite teams, Miami has only beat one elite team and that was back on Christmas. 

Ironically a better comparison to last year's Celtics team may be the LA Lakers when it is all said and done.


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

Game3525 said:


> The Celtics had already been there and won, and they never had the amount of pressure the Heat have faced. Also Boston, even when they were mailing in games, they still were able to beat some of the elite teams, Miami has only beat one elite team and that was back on Christmas.


What month is it?


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## Game3525 (Aug 14, 2008)

Floods said:


> What month is it?


Yeah, it is still early. But they are having the same problems against elite teams that they have all year. You can't right them off, but they have some serious flaws that elite teams are exploiting time after time. I really don't think this is like Boston or LA from last year, who had injuries and lack focus down the stretch.


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## goodfoot (Feb 28, 2009)

They need to give the ball to Chalmers in crunch time. Clearly he gives them the best chance to win


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Floods said:


> Oh god. Do you really think I'm this thick? The first thing you posted was "Its dumb to not personally like Lebron James and the Heat?", which is a strawman, because I never said that. What I actually did is attack the reasoning behind it, which is kind of a different animal.
> 
> The idea itself isn't dumb, but most of the crap people put forth like 'I don't like him because he doesn't act how I like my athletes to act' (that seems to be the general consensus) is just the most petty, narrow minded bull****. And I call it out, because I can.
> 
> ...


You do realize you're making a fool of yourself correct?

"Sure people can hate Lebron, but they're stupid for it! And I'm going to tell them why!" to which you never elaborate on. 

Good work. You're argument so far is "It's stupid to hate Lebron". Is it? Really? Wow. Thanks for the news champ. 

And "Fail" No. Sorry, but it was a good parody of how your posts have been. People read it, and people laughed, because I'm funny, and you're acting like a joke right now.


And to just top it all off, go ahead and tell everyone how pathetic and sad it is that they don't like Lebron, but what's really sad is you taking it personally and getting hurt over the fact people don't like him. Its ****ing pathetic. You look like the youtube chick yelling "Leave BRITNEY ALONE!"


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## afobisme (Apr 29, 2006)

Floods said:


> Bahahahaha. Do I even want to know?


nah you probably don't, because if at this point you think wade has a great all around game, or the heat are the favorites to win a championship this year (your sig).. then you'll never "know."



Floods said:


> Antoine Walker's a bad example (as well as just being one player on a team). Obviously guys with albatross contracts they know they aren't worth aren't going to want to do anything besides hide on the bench.
> 
> Besides that, good teams are good teams. They're all trying to win, so broadly speaking, over a number of games (especially regular season), it's not going to make that much difference how 'hungry' anyone is.
> 
> ...


i still don't even understand what your point is with the "teams want to win games, so it doesn't matter how 'hungry' they are."

you really don't understand what's going on with the lakers. you know march is 1 month away from the playoffs right? you know that teams want to go into the playoffs in a nice rhythm right? 

and you totally don't understand my point if you think im saying that "on any given night" i can gauge a team's desire. i have no idea where you came up with that idea. it's not any given night, it's about periods of the season when the teams flip that switch on. you seem to think that the lakers are getting hot all of a sudden by some stroke of luck. have you seen kobe's demeanor during the playoffs? it's no coincedence.


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## Tom (Jul 15, 2002)

My advice to the Heat...It isn't an insult to run offense for a star(s)players. If everyone knows the secondary players are just going to stand and watch it makes that hedge and help that much easier. Rub a defender off a screen or something for pete's sake.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

The Heat aren't a finished product anyway so you guys look silly whining back and forth about it. They have the core pieces but they haven't filled out yet. 

Once they add supplemental pieces they probably won't play as many close games in the first place. Right now it's just either LeBron and/or Wade pushing it to the limit and then 2 or 3 other people who decide to show up. Wait til they have a full team by next season.


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## MarionBarberThe4th (Jul 7, 2005)

A very small percentage of people thought Bosh would have been the best use of Miami's $15M.

But he was 33% GM of the team, so it wasnt going to go down any other way.


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## Tom (Jul 15, 2002)

I think Bosh with Wade would be fine or Bosh with Lebron would be fine, but when your game as a big man isn't underneath the basket...it is tough. He is still a good player who is getting in the way.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Dre™ said:


> The Heat aren't a finished product anyway so you guys look silly whining back and forth about it. They have the core pieces but they haven't filled out yet.
> 
> Once they add supplemental pieces they probably won't play as many close games in the first place. Right now it's just either LeBron and/or Wade pushing it to the limit and then 2 or 3 other people who decide to show up. Wait til they have a full team by next season.


Who is whining? The last few pages have been people making fun of the Heat for crying. No one said anything about their "product" other than the one crazy poster going back and forth with Floods. And before that it was a thread about Bosh.

The only people looking silly are the ones trying to make this thread into something its not. There isn't a bunch of people saying the Heat suck, or the Heat are this or that. It's funny they cried. If they win, good on them. They're a hell of a team. That's about it.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

I'm not even talking about just this thread it's just been a bunch of ad nauseum faux analysis about a clearly incomplete team and it's bordering on annoying


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## afobisme (Apr 29, 2006)

Dre™;6514034 said:


> The Heat aren't a finished product anyway so you guys look silly whining back and forth about it. They have the core pieces but they haven't filled out yet.
> 
> Once they add supplemental pieces they probably won't play as many close games in the first place. Right now it's just either LeBron and/or Wade pushing it to the limit and then 2 or 3 other people who decide to show up. Wait til they have a full team by next season.


wait, how are they supposed to finish building the team when 3 guys eat up the entire cap? so you think signing MLE players is gonna help this team become a finished product? 

and they'd be better if their skills complemented each other, which it doesn't. that's what people are talking about.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

They don't need that much. The MLE and a sweetheart LLE/minimum deal or so and they can be good enough to beat anyone. 

Until they get those pieces though they're fundamentally flawed


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Dre™ said:


> They don't need that much. The MLE and a sweetheart LLE/minimum deal or so and they can be good enough to beat anyone.
> 
> Until they get those pieces though they're fundamentally flawed


We all said that before the season started though.

"They need time to gel" or "They need time to see what type of role players to get to fill out the team"

Which is understandable, as long as its not being used as an excuse. There's nothing worse than young/newly rebuilt teams using that as their excuse for the first few years. They have 2(3?) of the best players in the game, they don't get to use chemistry or "we're not ready yet" as an excuse.


As me and many have said, if they win, great. If not, its because they got beat by a better team. If so, add some pieces and come back firing again next year.


I'm usually not very good at predictions, but I hit the Heat pretty square when I predicted them this offseason. Not enough supplementary talent around the big 3, and Bosh being the go to scape goat once things get rough. Sure I probably said Lebron would beat up a woman, or rape a giraffe or something, but other than that I was spot on.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

I mean I agree with all that. There are better teams. I just don't think it's as big of an indictment on the big 3 as people suggest, because in that same post you not they're not ready for primetime yet. 

I guess where we disagree is that I don't see saying they're imcompete is an excuse it's just the truth. If someone punches me in the chin and I fall down, "my chin was weak compared to their fist" isn't an excuse, it's an account of what happened.

The Heat being beat in the post and by an all-star point guard because they haven't retained necessary counters yet isn't an excuse to save face, it just is. Who would be surprised


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## Ron (May 8, 2002)




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## Ron (May 8, 2002)




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## simply_amazing (Aug 23, 2009)

I would point out all of the posts a couple of months ago about how the return of Mike Miller as an outside scoring threat was the "additional piece" they needed to get them over the hump, but that would just be cruel. 

Then, there was mild elation at the acquisition of Bibby. 

It really doesn't matter who they acquire: this team has no chemistry and unclear and uncertain leadership, among players as well as the coaching staff. 

The Big Three idea was a nice marketing gimmick, and a clear indication to management that once again, all-nba players have as much leverage as any group of athletes in professional sports, but right now, they aren't a team. And I doubt they ever will be with Spoelstra "at the helm" so to speak. 



Dre™ said:


> They don't need that much. The MLE and a sweetheart LLE/minimum deal or so and they can be good enough to beat anyone.
> 
> Until they get those pieces though they're fundamentally flawed


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Dre™;6514166 said:


> I mean I agree with all that. There are better teams. I just don't think it's as big of an indictment on the big 3 as people suggest, because in that same post you not they're not ready for primetime yet.
> 
> I guess where we disagree is that I don't see saying they're imcompete is an excuse it's just the truth. If someone punches me in the chin and I fall down, "my chin was weak compared to their fist" isn't an excuse, it's an account of what happened.
> 
> The Heat being beat in the post and by an all-star point guard because they haven't retained necessary counters yet isn't an excuse to save face, it just is. Who would be surprised


Then if/when they lose in the post season this year, people need to call it what it is. Because they weren't good enough. Lebron wasn't good enough, Wade wasn't good enough, Bosh wasn't good enough, the rest of the scrubs on the team weren't good enough.

Not because "Lebron, and Wade didn't have any help!". They knew they wouldn't be getting much help when they all signed their contracts tying up all the teams money. Then they went on to pretty much say they were going to moonwalk their way to a dynasty. 


I think its pretty much a sure thing they'll get theirs. As long as everyone doesn't turn on Bosh and try to put all the blame on his shoulders, they'll be able to get a marquis veteran or two this offseason willing to take a paycut to chase a ring, like you said. 
There's too much talent there for it to not work out for them sooner or later. I just don't want the "team" excuses, trying to give Lebron and Wade a free pass while blaming everyone else.


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## Tom (Jul 15, 2002)

The playoffs will be different. Talent rises.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

R-Star said:


> Then if/when they lose in the post season this year, people need to call it what it is. Because they weren't good enough. Lebron wasn't good enough, Wade wasn't good enough, Bosh wasn't good enough, the rest of the scrubs on the team weren't good enough.
> 
> Not because "Lebron, and Wade didn't have any help!". They knew they wouldn't be getting much help when they all signed their contracts tying up all the teams money. Then they went on to pretty much say they were going to moonwalk their way to a dynasty.
> 
> ...


If LeBron and Wade play to their potential, which is highly likely, then it's going to be hard for any levelheaded, neutral person to pin fault on them. 

It's not about a free pass, because it's fairly clear Wade and Bron are the only reasons they're winning now and will be in a position to maybe reach the ECFs or Finals (or a ring).


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Dre™ said:


> If LeBron and Wade play to their potential, which is highly likely, then it's going to be hard for any levelheaded, neutral person to pin fault on them.
> 
> It's not about a free pass, because it's fairly clear Wade and Bron are the only reasons they're winning now and will be in a position to maybe reach the ECFs or Finals (or a ring).


They were supposed to be a dynasty when they got together. Their words, not mine. They deserve blame if they can't win. It's not Eddie Houses fault Eddie House plays like a bottom level player. Its not Juwan Howards, Jamal Magloire, Erik Dampier or Ilgauskas fault they're over the hill big men in the twilight of their career.

Lebron, Wade and Bosh were supposed to lead their team to a title. Not Mario Chalmers and James Jones. They are to blame if they can't get it done. Not saying "They played their best. The team let them down." No. They let the Heat down. The rest of the players on that team who weren't already there flocked to the Heat because Lebron, Bosh and Wade were supposed to carry the load while they role played their way to glory.


You don't blame the role players and praise the stars when a team loses.


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## Game3525 (Aug 14, 2008)

simply_amazing said:


> I would point out all of the posts a couple of months ago about how the return of Mike Miller as an outside scoring threat was the "additional piece" they needed to get them over the hump, but that would just be cruel.
> 
> Then, there was mild elation at the acquisition of Bibby.
> 
> ...


You know I was just about to start a thread about Mike Miller, man has he been a disappointment. I think it was HKF or MemphisX who said this guy just bricks wide open shots....and damn were they right.


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## Kneejoh (Dec 21, 2004)

Arguing with Heat fans is the most frustrating thing when it comes to Lebron and Wade, nobody seems to notice that as good as both of them are they really hog the ball. Everyone is so caught up with statistics and fantasy players and whatever else that Wade and Lebron get passes for all the dumb **** they do on the court because they can put up 30/8/7 or 25/5/7. Whatever, stats don't win games. Championship teams don't run isos and pick and rolls every single time down. I've been saying it for years now and I'm going to continue saying it, LEBRON JAMES cannot play in any offense where he has to play off ball. His IQ is always praised because he's a good passer but you watch him play and his lack of basketball knowledge is evident when you see how he has no clue what to do without the ball. 

Rant Over

I feel bad for Bosh because he will be the scapegoat. I just don't get it, Bosh chokes and its his fault the team is losing, Lebron chokes and it's the rest of the team's fault. Looks to me like Bosh is in a lose lose situation.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

If the Heat lose Lebron will get the most blame, that should be pretty obvious at this point. He played historically in that Orlando season two years ago, and people still say he didn't do enough. So I doubt he'll ever be able to play a level where he won't get the bulk of the blame for an early playoff exit.

At this stage of his career, he badly needs a title---like fiend level need. Wade doesn't need one AS bad, but he would like one. Bosh just wants to chill.


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

Game3525 said:


> You know I was just about to start a thread about Mike Miller, man has he been a disappointment. I think it was HKF or MemphisX who said this guy just bricks wide open shots....and damn were they right.


And he'll _only_ shoot if he's wiiiide open. I've never seen such an awesome shooter pass up so many good looks.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Meh. It's hard to be too hard on Mike since he does have an injury on his shooting hand. James Jones had the same injury and it took him a few years to get back. Hopefully Miller gets it going. The one great thing about him though is that even if he's missing those shots he's still flying around the court for rebounds and hustling on defense. I think Spoelstra needs to start playing him a lot more, see if that helps his rhythm out.


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## simply_amazing (Aug 23, 2009)

You're missing the irony. The Heat have the reigning MVP, a top five and top 15 player. For them or their fans to want or even rely on Mike Miller or Mike Bibby as game changers is pretty hilarious. 



futuristxen said:


> Meh. It's hard to be too hard on Mike since he does have an injury on his shooting hand. James Jones had the same injury and it took him a few years to get back. Hopefully Miller gets it going. The one great thing about him though is that even if he's missing those shots he's still flying around the court for rebounds and hustling on defense. I think Spoelstra needs to start playing him a lot more, see if that helps his rhythm out.


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## Juggernaut (Jul 20, 2010)

futuristxen said:


> At this stage of his career, he badly needs a title---like fiend level need. Wade doesn't need one AS bad, but he would like one. *Bosh just wants to chill*.


i lol'd.

It's a shame that LeBron/Amar'e didn't happen in Cleveland.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

simply_amazing said:


> You're missing the irony. The Heat have the reigning MVP, a top five and top 15 player. For them or their fans to want or even rely on Mike Miller or Mike Bibby as game changers is pretty hilarious.


Well considering that they as a team will probably need more than 80 points a night to win games, yeah--someone else does have to step up and score some points night to night--and there's no reason that can't be Mike Miller. You need about 2 to 3 threes a night from Miller, 5-8 points from Chalmers. A James Jones or Mike Bibby 3. An open Dampier put back or two--then you get closer to 100 points which you need to win most basketball games.

It's hilarious that it's hilarious to you that a team needs more than 3 players to contribute to beat the top teams in the NBA. 

No one is asking for any of those guys to step up for 20 points per game or anything. Just for some filler. 

Plus the reason Lebron and Wade are so good is because of how well rounded they are. It's not because they just go out and score 60 points per game. To take advantage of their skills fully, you need your shooters to hit their shots and space the floor.


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## afobisme (Apr 29, 2006)

lebron and wade.. well rounded? isn't their lack of offensive versatility part of the problem? as in all they can do on offense is drive to the basket. they can't be spotup shooters or post players and aren't nearly as effective without the ball in their hands (ie run around screens, like a ray allen).


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

R-Star said:


> "Sure people can hate Lebron, but they're stupid for it! And I'm going to tell them why!" to which you never elaborate on.


I'm never elaborating on it because that's not what I'm saying. Derp.



> Good work. You're argument so far is "It's stupid to hate Lebron". Is it? Really? Wow. Thanks for the news champ.


Sigh. Whatever some poor soul is paying you to do, I hope it doesn't involve too much reading.



> And "Fail" No. Sorry, but it was a good parody of how your posts have been. People read it, and people laughed, because I'm funny, and you're acting like a joke right now.


...no.



> And to just top it all off, go ahead and tell everyone how pathetic and sad it is that they don't like Lebron, but what's really sad is you taking it personally and getting hurt over the fact people don't like him. Its ****ing pathetic. You look like the youtube chick yelling "Leave BRITNEY ALONE!"


Hardly, I think it's funny. Even funnier that you're flipping out about it. Watching you constantly bitch and moan about LeBron and the Heat, purely for them not acting how you like your athletes to act, is... funny. That's pretty much it.


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## jayk009 (Aug 6, 2003)

Mike Miller passing on shots is nothing new though. He's been doing it for the past 3-4 seasons and his "unselfishness" has actually been detrimental to any team he's played for. I honestly thought he would stop doing that once he got to Miami, but I guess he didn't change.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

I honestly haven't noticed him passing on shots. I've noticed him MISSING shots. But not passing on them.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

afobisme said:


> lebron and wade.. well rounded? isn't their lack of offensive versatility part of the problem? as in all they can do on offense is drive to the basket. they can't be spotup shooters or post players and aren't nearly as effective without the ball in their hands (ie run around screens, like a ray allen).


I meant well rounded in the sense that they are more playmakers than scorers, so to take the most advantage of their skill sets which are as you put it mostly based around slashing--is to have shooters for them to kick to, so that the floor remains spaced. Otherwise teams just pack the paint, and they start shooting too many jumpers.

And to be honest, I think most Heat fans would prefer if what you said was true. But unfortunately it's not. All Lebron and Wade SHOULD be doing is driving to the basket. But what they actually do is shoot contested jumpers from bad spots on the floor. Their role on the team is scoring in the paint, so when they start settling for jumpers it unsettles the whole offense because the Heat turn into a jumpshooting team, instead of a drive and kick team.

Something Spoelstra needs to do is incorporate more Princeton style cutting, especially by Bosh and Wade. If you look at where Lebron's assists have gone this year compared to the rest of his whole career, his assists to the rim are way down. That's because there's no action in the Heat offense for Bosh or Dampier to roll to the basket.

And I honestly have no idea why you have Dampier on the floor and you play him at the elbow. Seems like you would want him closer to the basket to take advantage of his size in offensive rebounding.

Same with Bosh. If you want to know why Bosh's offensive rebounding numbers are in the tank it's primarily because Spoelstra/Wade/Lebron have turned him into a purely 15 foot jump shooter. Which is a shame because in Toronto he cut his teeth rolling almost as often as he popped. Which considering how good of a finisher Bosh is, and how good he is at drawing fouls--just seems like a missed opportunity.

With a little more offensive diversity, Bosh could probably put up 22/10 even as the third option on this team.


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## Game3525 (Aug 14, 2008)

The Princeton style of offense is only going to work if ether Wade or Bron becomes better at moving without the ball, so right now it would be pointless to bring that style of offense in.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

futuristxen said:


> I honestly haven't noticed him passing on shots. I've noticed him MISSING shots. But not passing on them.


He's a brick... house
He's not so mighty
Lettin' 'em all rim out


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Floods said:


> I'm never elaborating on it because that's not what I'm saying. Derp.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


"Why not try some reading comprehension because that's not what I'm saying" Wow. Do you even know yourself what your argument is now? Here's a hint, go back and read your own posts.

You're sitting around getting all sad and angry because people don't like Lebron and the Heat. I mean read your ****ing posts man. They're there, so lets just slow down with the "That's not what I said, I hope your boss knows your dumb and can't read!" bull****. You got into it with Pay Ton when I first came into the thread because he said he didn't like the Heat even if they won. "I'll DO IT! I'll BUMP THIS THREAD!"

Good for you bro. Bump the thread. Oh, and next time you say "That isn't even what my argument is!" in like 5 consecutive posts, maybe spend the time to think up what your supposed "argument" is. It's ok though this time. I already know what your argument is. That its pathetic to hate Lebron because Lebron is awesome and the greatest and you'll bump threads for him, yell at people for him, cry on youtube for him, etc. 


Honestly, keep posting in this thread with me. At the very least I get to laugh my ass off while trying my darndest to read these damn well programs at work.


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## kbdullah (Jul 8, 2010)

The Heat still have a tough upcoming schedule, albeit most of them are home games. Their next seven games :

Portland
Los Angeles Lakers
Memphis
San Antonio
Oklahoma City
@Atlanta
Denver

I think they beat Portland tonite, lose the next three (Lakers, Grizz, Spurs) beat OKC and Atlanta, and lose to Denver. So 3-4 over their next 7.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Or they could go 7-0. You never know with them.


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

futuristxen said:


> I honestly haven't noticed him passing on shots. I've noticed him MISSING shots. But not passing on them.


against the Magic he took 3 shots in 24 minutes, against the Bulls he took (and missed) 5 in 30 - meanwhile the big dogs are all in the high teens in attempts


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## goodfoot (Feb 28, 2009)

The problem is the law of dimishing returns. You can have Lebron drive and kick to Wade, or Wade drive and kick to Lebron. Neither one of then are exceptional shooting the ball. That's why Lebron's Cavs had the best record last year. It was Lebron and a bunch of jumpshooters. with great defense. I honestly think they would be better off putting Wade or Lebron on the bench, but I don't think that would go over well. Or if Lebron would develop a post game. He should be able to post up most SF's. If he did that with some success and teams doubled it would open everyone else's game. There was a game with the Celtics where Rondo was guarding Lebron and he still didn't post up.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

e-monk said:


> against the Magic he took 3 shots in 24 minutes, against the Bulls he took (and missed) 5 in 30 - meanwhile the big dogs are all in the high teens in attempts


Yeah but look at the rest of the team. No one else on the team has more than 5 shots either in that Bulls game. Mike is rarely going to get more than say 8 shots in any given game because of his low minutes, and the focus on the big three.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

futuristxen said:


> If the Heat lose Lebron will get the most blame, that should be pretty obvious at this point. He played historically in that Orlando season two years ago, and people still say he didn't do enough. So I doubt he'll ever be able to play a level where he won't get the bulk of the blame for an early playoff exit.
> 
> At this stage of his career, he badly needs a title---like fiend level need. Wade doesn't need one AS bad, but he would like one. Bosh just wants to chill.


He played fantastically but I don't know about "historically". Keep in mind he scored 17 points in the elimination game, and lost the series with homecourt against a good but not great Magic team. 

People like to pretend he's the GOAT because of his playoff stats but he's never really finished his playoff runs particuraly strong.


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## afobisme (Apr 29, 2006)

this year's really exposed lebron... he hasn't been able to prove himself to be an elite player outside of the team being him + 4 shooters. maybe that will change, but who knows. or maybe i'm just a hater. at this point, i don't think he's as good as i thought he was a year ago.

if wade were lebron's age, i would rather trade lebron over him.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

afobisme said:


> this year's really exposed lebron... he hasn't been able to prove himself to be an elite player outside of the team being him + 4 shooters. maybe that will change, but who knows. or maybe i'm just a hater. at this point, i don't think he's as good as i thought he was a year ago.
> 
> if wade were lebron's age, i would rather trade lebron over him.


I don't like Lebron as anyone on here can attest to. But not elite? Dude come on. Come on bro. Come on guy.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

VanillaPrice said:


> He played fantastically but I don't know about "historically". Keep in mind he scored 17 points in the elimination game, and lost the series with homecourt against a good but not great Magic team.


He definitely played historically. I don't have his stats for that series handy, but even with that final game--he was averaging something like 40ppg with high efficiency and high assist and rebound numbers--including a game winning 3 pointer that probably saved the Cavs from being knocked out even earlier in that series.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

He's had a down year (for his standards) but I can't name another player on the planet that's better than him.

I will agree that I thought he was better a year ago too, though. At this time last year I couldn't name another player (including Kobe/Wade) that were even on his level. Now I feel like that gap has lessened to an extent.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

futuristxen said:


> He definitely played historically. I don't have his stats for that series handy, but even with that final game--he was averaging something like 40ppg with high efficiency and high assist and rebound numbers--including a game winning 3 pointer that probably saved the Cavs from being knocked out even earlier in that series.


Maybe it's just me, but I'm probably not going to call a series in which a player chokes in the last game and loses the series while having homecourt a "historic" preformance. He was impressive, sure. But he always is, he just got the advantage of being checked by Turkyglue the entire series.

He hit a great three in game 3, played a great series that helped solidify himself as the best player in the league, but I'm not going to call that one of the "historic" runs of all time.


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## Ballscientist (Nov 11, 2002)

What does "cry now smile later" mean?

What does "smile now cry later" mean?


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

VanillaPrice said:


> Maybe it's just me, but I'm probably not going to call a series in which a player chokes in the last game and loses the series while having homecourt a "historic" preformance. He was impressive, sure. But he always is, he just got the advantage of being checked by Turkyglue the entire series.
> 
> He hit a great three in game 3, played a great series that helped solidify himself as the best player in the league, but I'm not going to call that one of the "historic" runs of all time.


Hmm... yeah it's not a historic run. Just a historic performance in a series. What was it game 4 or 5 where Mike Brown threw out his playbook and just gave the ball to Lebron every play in the fourth quarter right at the top of the key and asked him to go 1 on 5 and beat the Magic--and he did.

He lost the series, but as a basketball fan, I thought the performances he put in that playoff series were some of the best of his career. I rate that ahead of the Pistons series where he actually won the series. But that's me.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

futuristxen said:


> What was it game 4 or 5 where Mike Brown threw out his playbook and just gave the ball to Lebron every play in the fourth quarter right at the top of the key and asked him to go 1 on 5 and *beat the Magic--and he did.
> 
> He lost the series*


Which one is it


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## Shaoxia (Dec 5, 2007)

Dre™ said:


> Which one is it


:laugh:


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## Ron (May 8, 2002)

*Phil Jackson: Big Boys Don't Cry*



> Los Angeles Lakers head coach Phil Jackson tried to bite his tongue.





> "This is the NBA: No Boys Allowed," Jackson said. "Big boys don't cry. But, if you're going to do it, do it in the toilet where no one can see."


Do it in the toilet?


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## Ron (May 8, 2002)




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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

Wow, Chris Bosh is awesome.


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## Juggernaut (Jul 20, 2010)

Ron said:


> *Phil Jackson: Big Boys Don't Cry*
> 
> Do it in the toilet?


Do it in the toilet [stall]. Where cameras won't see you.


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## Ron (May 8, 2002)




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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Dre™ said:


> Which one is it


Oh sorry. I thought it was clear what I meant. I meant that he won that game, but lost the series. I dunno. Maybe I'm crazy. I thought he played incredible in that series.


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## BenDengGo (Feb 1, 2004)




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## sonicFLAME6 (Dec 19, 2006)

Ron said:


> *Phil Jackson: Big Boys Don't Cry*
> 
> 
> 
> ...








You tell them coach, no crying allowed, specially not on the court.


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## Juggernaut (Jul 20, 2010)

JC.McFly said:


> You tell them coach, no crying allowed, specially not on the court.


You really comparing game 6 of the playoffs, where they were destroyed in San Antonio to be eliminated, to the Heat losing a regular season game?

:2ti:


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## sonicFLAME6 (Dec 19, 2006)

Juggernaut said:


> You really comparing game 6 of the playoffs, where they were destroyed in San Antonio to be eliminated, to the Heat losing a regular season game?
> 
> :2ti:


Where in my post did I compare the two scenarios? Point is, Phil said, "big boys don't cry." He did not say, big boys are only allowed to cry when they get smashed on in the playoffs. I'm just going by his words not the situation. I'm not the one crying on camera so calm your nipples down little fellaw.


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

Juggernaut said:


> You really comparing game 6 of the playoffs, where they were destroyed in San Antonio to be eliminated, to the Heat losing a regular season game?
> 
> :2ti:


Does it matter?

This is just Phil providing some 'bullet board material' to stir up the Heat should they meet in the Finals.


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## Game3525 (Aug 14, 2008)

Floods said:


> Does it matter?
> 
> This is just Phil providing some 'bullet board material' to stir up the Heat should they meet in the Finals.


Lmao, if the Heat need this crap to get them going then they are in worse shape then I thought.


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

Game3525 said:


> Lmao, if the Heat need this crap to get them going then they are in worse shape then I thought.


No, not 'get them going'. Phil's not trying to help these guys, he's trying to piss them off. If his questioning of their manhood (that is what this is at the core) gets under their skin, they'll start pressing, especially when they have to go against Phil.


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## Game3525 (Aug 14, 2008)

Floods said:


> No, not 'get them going'. Phil's not trying to help these guys, he's trying to piss them off. If his questioning of their manhood (that is what this is at the core) gets under their skin, they'll start pressing, especially when they have to go against Phil.


Phil usually has an ulterior motive when it comes to this things, but in this case I think he just yapping for the sake of yapping.


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

Phil doesn't yap for the sake of yapping. When comments like these are made he's always looking to crawl under somebody's skin, preferably that of a future opponent.


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## BenDengGo (Feb 1, 2004)




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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

:funny: :funny: :funny:


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## King Sancho Fantastic (Jul 19, 2005)

BenDengGo said:


>


:lol:


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## jayk009 (Aug 6, 2003)

:2ti:


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## Ron (May 8, 2002)

:lol: at him wiping his nose with money! :laugh:


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## Eternal (Sep 7, 2005)




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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

BenDengGo said:


>


Awesome!


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## GTA Addict (Jun 27, 2005)

funny **** floating around the net


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## AirJay (Aug 5, 2005)

Now THAT's the Bosh we all expected down here in Miami. Kudos to him on a terrific effort and great aggression.


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## Shaoxia (Dec 5, 2007)

GTA Addict said:


> funny **** floating around the net


:laugh: That pic is so hilarious!


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## jayk009 (Aug 6, 2003)

can someone explain the headband one


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Lebron is going bald.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

http://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/video.php?v=wshhJ8sxi75B2l27Ms2n


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## AirJay (Aug 5, 2005)

AirJay said:


> I am not usually a guy who jumps the gun over one bad loss.
> 
> But this is getting ridiculous.
> 
> ...


I apologize to Chris. I was hurt and angry. Nice job by me on the Paul Gasol remark :krazy:


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

Don't apologize NOW you fool, wait till the Finals are over.


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## GrandKenyon6 (Jul 19, 2005)

Why apologize? All those things are still true.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Guys Bosh has played better than in the playoffs:
KG
Boozer
Pau Gasol
Amare

Not bad so far. He also has hit big baskets down the stretch in the last two big games against Boston. Pretty good for a guy people blast all day every day.


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