# Eddy Curry : 7'0" 295 lbss?!



## QRICH (Feb 2, 2004)

> 7'0" 295 (his Berto Center measurements this summer)


One of your posters put that under the "Wilt" thread going on in another forum. Is this true?


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## LB26matrixns (May 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Lakota_Blazer</b>!
> 
> 
> One of your posters put that under the "Wilt" thread going on in another forum. Is this true?


He's being referred to by everyone as seven footer.....even SAM SMITH....listen to the score; that's where I heard it on Jay Hood last night


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## Sith (Oct 20, 2003)

thats how big shaq was when he first entered the league. i hope it has some meaningful meanings


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## The 6ft Hurdle (Jan 25, 2003)

Wow he finally grew that extra inch AND he added 10 lbs in 2 months. Yay, now I can update that NBA Street 1 profile !


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## Snuffleupagus (May 8, 2003)

He's a big boy.


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## LB26matrixns (May 6, 2004)

I don't think it happened in two months. He's always looked 7 feet to me. 

Wow genius......I guess NBA.com updates their listings for height in april and then again in june? Oh wait......is it possible that Eddy Curry's height and weight were last updated by NBA.com in august of last year?? LOL.

Ask any doctor....it's entirely possible to grow an inch between 20 and 22. Look at Duncan. Everyone called him 6'11" for his first few years....and now he's 7'.


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## LB26matrixns (May 6, 2004)

I expect big things from Eddy this year. Thank god we'll finally go into a season where Eddy doesn't end up standing their while Jamal, Jay or Jalen "do their thang."


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## Shanghai Kid (Mar 7, 2003)

No doubt he's getting into Shaq territory.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

He needs to start using that big body and quick feet for 20 a night. I could care less about him rebounding cuz JYD, AD, and Chandler can do that at the powerforward spot, Eddy needs to focus on offense and D not rebounding because that is where others can take over.


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## Pinball (Aug 3, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Shanghai Kid</b>!
> No doubt he's getting into Shaq territory.


As a physical speciman? Yes. As a basketball player? That remains to be seen.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

They just grow up so fast.


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## Snuffleupagus (May 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BabyBlueSlugga7</b>!
> He needs to start using that big body and quick feet for 20 a night. I could care less about him rebounding cuz JYD, AD, and Chandler can do that at the powerforward spot, Eddy needs to focus on offense and D not rebounding because that is where others can take over.


Good post (you're consistantly one of my favorite posters on this board). A lot of people point to Curry's inability to play defense and rebound as evidence of his crappiness. But he's money on offense, he just doesn't get enough touches down there. The Bulls have a lot of defensive-specialist bigs, so don't worry that Curry is an offensive-specialist.


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## LB26matrixns (May 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Snuffleupagus</b>!
> 
> 
> Good post (you're consistantly one of my favorite posters on this board). A lot of people point to Curry's inability to play defense and rebound as evidence of his crappiness. But he's money on offense, he just doesn't get enough touches down there. The Bulls have a lot of defensive-specialist bigs, so don't worry that Curry is an offensive-specialist.


Don't you think that finally entering a season without Jalen Rose and possibly without Jamal will change the offense? Now there will be nobody left who will be like "man I was here before Eddy....I'll just dribble down and chuck it."

I think Eddy no being the senior statesman on the the team, alone with Tyson, will be huge for his development


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>LB26matrixns</b>!
> 
> 
> Don't you think that finally entering a season without Jalen Rose and possibly without Jamal will change the offense? Now there will be nobody left who will be like "man I was here before Eddy....I'll just dribble down and chuck it."
> ...


Ok seriously Crawford passed the ball to Curry the most last year. Hinrich was the one fishing for assists passing it to Antonio Davis by the free throw line for a jumpshot that almost never went in. Jamal Crawford and Eddy Curry are best buds so why would Crawford ignore Curry more then anyone else.


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## LB26matrixns (May 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>BabyBlueSlugga7</b>!
> 
> 
> Ok seriously Crawford passed the ball to Curry the most last year. Hinrich was the one fishing for assists passing it to Antonio Davis by the free throw line for a jumpshot that almost never went in. Jamal Crawford and Eddy Curry are best buds so why would Crawford ignore Curry more then anyone else.


Just by virtue of Jamal jacking it so much.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>LB26matrixns</b>!
> 
> 
> Just by virtue of Jamal jacking it so much.


Most of the time when Jamal was jacking shots, Eddy was watching from the bench.


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## LB26matrixns (May 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>futuristxen</b>!
> 
> 
> Most of the time when Jamal was jacking shots, Eddy was watching from the bench.


That would be kinda hard seeing as how Jamal played 6 mins more than Eddy per game


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## Bulls96 (Jun 25, 2003)

Mr. Potential needs a good/solid PF around him in order to produce big. He could be deadly, if another offense threat comes from the PF. I hope Tyson will update his offensive skills this summer, at least one of the “moves” to the basket and midrange shooting. 

And if not…, we need to “shoot” them, of course Jamal and Kraus too


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## The 6ft Hurdle (Jan 25, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>LB26matrixns</b>!
> I don't think it happened in two months. He's always looked 7 feet to me.
> 
> Wow genius......I guess NBA.com updates their listings for height in april and then again in june? Oh wait......is it possible that Eddy Curry's height and weight were last updated by NBA.com in august of last year?? LOL.
> ...


Sheesh, OK !

Eddy Curry gained an inch and 20 pounds. I guess that officially means he's in the hall of fame. 

:shy:


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## LB26matrixns (May 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>E L D R U H M A I</b>!
> 
> Sheesh, OK !
> 
> ...


LOL way to just completely take it in your own direction. I never said that meant anything at all.....I just said it was a fact. Did you hear me say "Eddy is 7' 295 so he'll be in the hall of fame" or merely state factually that "Eddy is 7' 295"?


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## LB26matrixns (May 6, 2004)

BTW how are you in Santa Cruz and LA?? They're about 5 hours drive apart. You're much closer to Oakland.......

Ahhh....the Warriors lol

Are you one of those Laker/49ers fans?? LOL Those people are the most priceless sports fans on earth.


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## The 6ft Hurdle (Jan 25, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>LB26matrixns</b>!
> 
> LOL way to just completely take it in your own direction. I never said that meant anything at all.....I just said it was a fact. Did you hear me say "Eddy is 7' 295 so he'll be in the hall of fame" or merely state factually that "Eddy is 7' 295"?


No I just didn't like what I thought your tone was in that post about the NBA updating heights every so often, and so replied in sarcasm. Yes, you could be right, but it seems like you're taking this little snipet (actually some rumor with no link, wink) of Eddy officially being 7' 295 as some kind of sign from God (or whatever you believe in) that he's going to do damage on Shaq-like scale which I hope would happen. 

And:

No, not a fan of the Lakers/49ers, but I am a fan AGAINST the Lakers/49ers.

And yes, you're right again. Santa Cruz is not near Los Angeles. Thanks for the detective work, agent Matrix. 

All this society really needs to become better is more people to check heights and distances.

(Oh BTW, except that it usually takes the not-so-daredevelish drivers 7-8 hours to get from point to point)


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## SecretAgentGuy (Jul 15, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BabyBlueSlugga7</b>!
> He needs to start using that big body and quick feet for 20 a night. I could care less about him rebounding cuz JYD, AD, and Chandler can do that at the powerforward spot, Eddy needs to focus on offense and D not rebounding because that is where others can take over.


Surely you jest. Are you seriously saying that it is okay for a 7 foot center that is being labeled the CORNERSTONE OF YOUR FRANCHISE to ignore the task of rebounding? Rebounding and center goes hand in hand. Imagine if Shaq, David Robinson, Hakeem, or Ewing didn't rebound. Would they have been considered cornerstones of their respective teams?


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## LB26matrixns (May 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>E L D R U H M A I</b>!
> 
> No I just didn't like what I thought your tone was in that post about the NBA updating heights every so often, and so replied in sarcasm. Yes, you could be right, but it seems like you're taking this little snipet (actually some rumor with no link, wink) of Eddy officially being 7' 295 as some kind of sign from God (or whatever you believe in) that he's going to do damage on Shaq-like scale which I hope would happen.


No.....you're wrong. Some other people said that that was Shaq like. AGAIN....I merely stated the fact that Jay Hood said over and over again that Eddy was 7' and 295 pounds. I never said that that meant Eddy was going to be Shaquille O'neal or anything of the sort.....you dreamt that into the equation. 



> And:
> 
> No, not a fan of the Lakers/49ers, but I am a fan AGAINST the Lakers/49ers.
> 
> ...


Mapquest.com driving directions
http://www.mapquest.com/directions/...3f-400c3302&aid=40e868cd-002c2-0313f-400c3302

Santa Cruz, CA US - Los Angeles, CA US 

Maneuvers Distance Maps 
1: Start out going West on CHURCH ST toward CHESTNUT ST. <0.1 miles Map 
2: Turn RIGHT onto CHESTNUT ST. 0.2 miles Map 
3: CHESTNUT ST becomes CA-1 S. 15.1 miles Map 
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11: Merge onto I-5 S toward LOS ANGELES. 265.5 miles Map 
12: Merge onto CA-110 S toward LOS ANGELES. 2.2 miles Map 
13: Take the US-101 N exit toward I-5 S. <0.1 miles Map 
14: Take the SANTA ANA FWY exit on the left toward I-5/SANTA ANA. 0.3 miles Map 
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19: End at Los Angeles CA Map 

Total Est. Time: *5 hours, 34 minutes*


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>sp00k</b>!
> Surely you jest.


Don't call him shirley. How'd you like to be called shirley?


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>sp00k</b>!
> 
> 
> Surely you jest. Are you seriously saying that it is okay for a 7 foot center that is being labeled the CORNERSTONE OF YOUR FRANCHISE to ignore the task of rebounding? Rebounding and center goes hand in hand. Imagine if Shaq, David Robinson, Hakeem, or Ewing didn't rebound. Would they have been considered cornerstones of their respective teams?


You misunderstand big time. Im not saying go out there and not try for a rebound and get 0 rpg. But I mean his specialty is offense so he should focus on adding a few post moves and tear up the offensive end rather then worry about defense. Right now he is getting 6.2 rebounds per a game I suspect he will get 7-8 next year, he should just go out there and ball and not worry about his rebound numbers and rather worry about his offensive stats which are more important to this Bulls team then rebounding as Curry should worry about because they have Tyson Chandler who could easily be a premeir rebounder in the league next year and an all defensive team player if he stays healthy and plays at his highest intensity level. So Curry should focus on rebounding because there are more players on the team that can rebound then that can put up 20 points easily on any night.


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## fleetwood macbull (Jan 23, 2004)

watching Eddy smashing up against Mutumbo last year, it just seemed like Eddy was really close height wise, to seven feet. By that i mean, Edy wasn't looking like he was being towered over by Mutumbo any more. He was close

EC always had the 7'6 inch wingspan since his rookie year anyways. Not sure what headheight gives you, unless it raises your shoulders to increase your standing reach. I never knew what his standing reach was, but it was obviously very long too

be that as it may, Eddy was 6'10 1/4 (right or wrong?) w/o shoes as a rookie, and he's grown at least an inch since then. That means he's a legite 7 footer as far as NBA listings go

295 elbees? i don't know how happy i am to hear that. I'd like him below 290. But maybe thats how he hangs. If he's stronger and in cardio shape, thats what matters most. I just want him able to increase his ability to quick jump repeatedly, and get back on defense


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

Hey all, Eddy Curry was essentially 7 feet tall when he got drafted. He was 6'10.5" WITHOUT SHOES and 6'11.75" with shoes. He could have very easily been listed at 7 feet.

Sorry, I don't have a link handy, but I'll try to find it (I've seen it before) if anyone is really curious.


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## SecretAgentGuy (Jul 15, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BabyBlueSlugga7</b>!
> 
> 
> You misunderstand big time. Im not saying go out there and not try for a rebound and get 0 rpg. But I mean his specialty is offense so he should focus on adding a few post moves and tear up the offensive end rather then worry about defense. Right now he is getting 6.2 rebounds per a game I suspect he will get 7-8 next year, he should just go out there and ball and not worry about his rebound numbers and rather worry about his offensive stats which are more important to this Bulls team then rebounding as Curry should worry about because they have Tyson Chandler who could easily be a premeir rebounder in the league next year and an all defensive team player if he stays healthy and plays at his highest intensity level. So Curry should focus on rebounding because there are more players on the team that can rebound then that can put up 20 points easily on any night.


And this is where you misunderstand - better rebounding results in better offense and better defense. Curry averaged a pathetic 2.0 offensive rpg. This number was solid for <b>46th</b> in the league. Studs such as Haslem, AD, PJ Brown, Ostertag, Nesterovic, Etan Thomas and Jeff Foster grabbed more. Given the immense talent that Eddy Curry is touted to possess, doesn't this disturb you the least bit? 

Defensive rebounds is more of the same. Eddy managed to come in at 50th in the league, which is inexcusable for a starting center, least of all one that is being hailed as a franchise center. <b>Eddy needs to focus on grabbing more boards before scoring more points.</b> More rebounds result in more more shots, better shots, and fewer shots for the opposing team. Eddy letting 8 rebounds fall his way will not cut it.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>sp00k</b>!
> 
> 
> And this is where you misunderstand - better rebounding results in better offense and better defense. Curry averaged a pathetic 2.0 offensive rpg. This number was solid for <b>46th</b> in the league. Studs such as Haslem, AD, PJ Brown, Ostertag, Nesterovic, Etan Thomas and Jeff Foster grabbed more. Given the immense talent that Eddy Curry is touted to possess, doesn't this disturb you the least bit?
> ...


Sorry I can't attribute the original poster, but someone once wrote that with Eddy in the lineup, the Bulls play 4 on 5 at both ends.


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## Wynn (Jun 3, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>DaBullz</b>!
> 
> 
> Sorry I can't attribute the original poster, but someone once wrote that with Eddy in the lineup, the Bulls play 4 on 5 at both ends.


Last year no matter who was in the line-up we played 4 on 5. We didn't have a legit SF on our roster.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>sp00k</b>!
> 
> 
> And this is where you misunderstand - better rebounding results in better offense and better defense. Curry averaged a pathetic 2.0 offensive rpg. This number was solid for <b>46th</b> in the league. Studs such as Haslem, AD, PJ Brown, Ostertag, Nesterovic, Etan Thomas and Jeff Foster grabbed more. Given the immense talent that Eddy Curry is touted to possess, doesn't this disturb you the least bit?
> ...


Well do to that heres the deal. There were 29 teams in the league last year, powerforward and centers are considered bigmen. That makes it 58 big men in the league. He is 47th overall in rebounds per a game last year. Now lets look further 12 of the players ahead of Curry were guards or swingmen, not bigmen. That puts Eddy at 35th best rebounder out of bigmen in the league. Which makes it Eddy Curry is roughly better then 40% of the starting bigmen in the league. For someone that is touted as a bad rebounder I would say thats pretty darn good.


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## LB26matrixns (May 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>fleetwood macbull</b>!
> watching Eddy smashing up against Mutumbo last year, it just seemed like Eddy was really close height wise, to seven feet. By that i mean, Edy wasn't looking like he was being towered over by Mutumbo any more. He was close
> 
> EC always had the 7'6 inch wingspan since his rookie year anyways. Not sure what headheight gives you, unless it raises your shoulders to increase your standing reach. I never knew what his standing reach was, but it was obviously very long too
> ...


Ehhh fleet not to worry......When you get taller you can get heavier and stay equally proportioned. He was 285 going into last season and has done a lot more work than people think. Being 295 is not a problem when Pax says he looks great is it?


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## LB26matrixns (May 6, 2004)

Actually, according to CBSsportsline.....

Eddy's average of 6.2 RPG was good for 11th best amongst centers last year. Hmmmmm.....I guess he'll just never be good enough for some people.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>LB26matrixns</b>!
> Actually, according to CBSsportsline.....
> 
> Eddy's average of 6.2 RPG was good for 11th best amongst centers last year. Hmmmmm.....I guess he'll just never be good enough for some people.


People think he is awful at that and he's not. He can just grab what comes to him and focus on scoring. Him getting 10 rebounds rather then 7 per a game then him getting 20 pts and 14 pts is way different from each other. Post Presences win championships so if we ever wanna be a ship team we need a good post presence. Last 5 championships duncan, shaq, and sheed. Now sheed isnt as good as the other 2 but had a great team around him and they played team basketball.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Wynn</b>!
> 
> 
> Last year no matter who was in the line-up we played 4 on 5. We didn't have a legit SF on our roster.


That would make it 3 on 5 ;-)


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>LB26matrixns</b>!
> Actually, according to CBSsportsline.....
> 
> Eddy's average of 6.2 RPG was good for 11th best amongst centers last year. Hmmmmm.....I guess he'll just never be good enough for some people.


According to Yahoo! sports, Eddy was 21st among centers.


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## Scuall (Jul 25, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>LB26matrixns</b>!
> Mapquest.com driving directions
> http://www.mapquest.com/directions/...3f-400c3302&aid=40e868cd-002c2-0313f-400c3302
> 
> ...


I think the 7-8 hours estimate is more accurate, taking into account traffic. Maybe if you left after 9:00 PM, a 5.5 hour drive would be realistic. Leave Friday afternoon on Memorial Day weekend... it might take several days to get there


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>LB26matrixns</b>!
> 
> 
> That would be kinda hard seeing as how Jamal played 6 mins more than Eddy per game


6 minutes is almost half of a quarter. If you watched the Bulls this year you would know that Crawford was pretty good about getting the ball into Eddy. He was the one guy who could do it with any consistency, because of his size from the wings, and the fact that teams would not double team off of him.

The lineups you saw Crawford shot jacking the most in where our scrub lineups after we were already down by 20 or so, where Crawford was trying to win the game on his own.

We basically played with 3 players this year. Crawford, Hinrich, and Eddy. And Eddy was injured and out of shape for large chunks of the year. So realistically it was more like 2.5 players we played with this season. But then when you factored in the inconsistencies of Hinrich and Crawford with regards to shooting, it was more like 1.5-2 players we played with for most of the year....really it's not suprising we were as bad as we were.


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## Johnny Mac (May 6, 2003)

Theres no excuse for Eddys rebounding struggles. At his size, length and quickness he should be grabbing 13-14 per game. Theres no need to make excuses about that.


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## SecretAgentGuy (Jul 15, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>DaBullz</b>!
> 
> 
> Sorry I can't attribute the original poster, but someone once wrote that with Eddy in the lineup, the Bulls play 4 on 5 at both ends.


'Twas I said the brown cow. 

http://www.basketballboards.net/for...hreadid=103549&highlight=Tyson+Eddy+four+five


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## Wynn (Jun 3, 2002)

According to NBA.com, the following "centers" had more rebounds/game than Big Ed:

Ben Wallace
Eric Dampier
Shaquille O'Neal
Jamaal McGloire
Brad Miller
Marcus Camby
Ming Yao
Dirk Nowitzki
Antonio Davis
Kurt Thomas
Zydrunas Ilgauskus
Joe Smith
Radoslav Nesterovic
Samuel Dalembert
Jeff Foster
Chris Bosh
Greg Ostertag
Theo Ratliff
Mark Bount
Juwan Howard
Brian Grant
Lorenzon Wright
Etan Thomas
Joel Przybilla
*Big Eddy!*

This makes Eddy 25th out of the 29 starting centers in the league. Good enough? Not by a long shot.

Further, every team in the league has at least two players with better rebounding numbers than Eddy except:

Seattle
Atlanta
Minnesota

Finally, Eddy is onlt the fourth best rebounder on *HIS OWN TEAM!* behind:

Antonio Davis
Tyson Chandler
Jerome Williams

These are facts, friends, not opinions. The facts say that Eddy is less than adequate in the rebounding department. Dispute the facts or concede this silly argument.

Peace!


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## Wynn (Jun 3, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>John The Cool Kid</b>!
> Theres no excuse for Eddys rebounding struggles. At his size, length and quickness he should be grabbing 13-14 per game. Theres no need to make excuses about that.


Despite my preceding post, I need to point out that this post is a little *TOO* demanding. The only two players to have averaged more than 13 rebounds/game in either of the last two seasons were Big Ben Wallace and Kevin Garnett.

I'll settle for 9 to 11 rebounds/game.


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## The 6ft Hurdle (Jan 25, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>LB26matrixns</b>!
> 
> 
> No.....you're wrong. Some other people said that that was Shaq like. AGAIN....I merely stated the fact that Jay Hood said over and over again that Eddy was 7' and 295 pounds. I never said that that meant Eddy was going to be Shaquille O'neal or anything of the sort.....you dreamt that into the equation.
> ...


 

This reminds me of the "Diop is much bigger than Eddy" thread and this particular post


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## dsouljah9 (Jul 9, 2002)

Eddy didn't average double digit rebounds in <b>high school</b>. Rebounding was one of his weaknesses when he was in the draft. He only averaged like 8 boards per game. Chandler averaged 18 boards per game(I think).


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## Johnny Mac (May 6, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Wynn</b>!
> Despite my preceding post, I need to point out that this post is a little *TOO* demanding. The only two players to have averaged more than 13 rebounds/game in either of the last two seasons were Big Ben Wallace and Kevin Garnett.
> 
> I'll *settle* for 9 to 11 rebounds/game.


I'll settle for that too, but its doing just that, settling. You say only two players averaged over 13 in the past two seasons, but how many players in the league have Eddys combination of height, weight, length, great hands and quickness? Eddy is 7'0, 290 with long arms, great soft hands and great quickness for his size. 

I dont think its unfair to think that combination *should* be producing 13 rebounds per game. Doesnt mean that I wont be happy with 11, but thats only because I've become acustomed to Eddys laziness and assume he'll never be able to completely overcome it and be the rebounder that he could be.


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## fleetwood macbull (Jan 23, 2004)

Shaq is the standard. He's got a career average of 12.1
hes never been below 10.7
he had 3 years of 13+
so not even Shaq can do that all the time, even though at 12 rpg, you could argue he has pretty much. But 13 is crazy. Its not as easy for a big man as you think. It always seems like the best rbounders are more wirey quick jumping types. 

It might be a little unrealistic to ask for Eddy to reach this. Eddy's not as quick and explosive as Shaq, He's more fluid. And Shaq is longer

Eddy is a basic underacheiver. And we have very high standards for him, and they are too high. I expect 20 and 10 thats all. Any thing else is asking too much. He can do it (average 12+, but its not reasonable. 11+ would be incredible)

How many players absolutely MAX their potential?..not many. We have to be more realistic and hope for him to meet fair expectation. 13 is not fair


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## Johnny Mac (May 6, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>fleetwood macbull</b>!
> Shaq is the standard. He's got a career average of 12.1
> hes never been below 10.7
> *he had 3 years of 13+*
> ...


I'm not asking Curry to do it his whole career, but he has all the physical tools to do it for a few seasons in his prime. That doesnt mean I expect him to even come close to that though, but I'm just saying theres no way around him being a poor rebounder because he *should* be grabbing 13 a game. 

I think as far as ability goes, Tracy McGrady to 30 points is Eddy Curry to 13 rebounds. McGrady frequently lives up to that ability, Curry does not. We've all lowered our standards because Eddy has been consistent in not utilizing his ability completely. We now hope he'll grab double digits in his prime, but thats the lowered expectation. 

Once again, if Curry had Michael Jordans work ethic, he'd be grabbing 13 a game, point blank. I look at his ability (height, weight, size, strength, wide frame, length, quickness, hands, etc) and think that this guy must really not even care about rebounding if he can only grab 7 a game.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

20/10 is very good for a PF. It's not so good for a C.

Eddy's supposed to be a real C in a C starved league. Compare him to REAL C's:

David Robinson seven straight years of 20+ PPG and 10+ RPG, four of those > 12 RPG and three of those > 25 PPG.

Patrick Ewing five straight years of 24+ PPG and 11+ RPG

Kevin Willis three straight years of near 20PPG and 12+ RPG

Hakeem Olajuwon six straight years of 24+ PPG and 12+ RPG (and after that he was near 11 RPG with near 28 PPG for 3 seasons)

Alonzo Mourning career 20 PPG / 9.7 RPG

Brad Daugherty career 19.0 PPG / 9.5 RPG

Rik Smits career 14.8PPG/6.1RPG , several seasons at about 18 PPG. Didn't play a lot of minutes.

Rony Seikaly career 14.7 PPG / 9.5 RPG



Here's a guy that looks a lot like Curry. Curry better step it up!

Benoit Benjamin career 11PPG/7.5 RPG


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## thunderspirit (Jun 25, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>DaBullz</b>!
> 20/10 is very good for a PF. It's not so good for a C.
> 
> Eddy's supposed to be a real C in a C starved league. Compare him to REAL C's:
> ...


thanx, DB.

what a tacit indictment.  EC can't out-perform Benoit Benjamin, Rony Seikaly, and Kevin Willis?
:jawdrop:

there's no question in my mind that Curry is squandering his tremendous athletic gifts. is there anyone who:
1) still thinks EC is gonna be the best center in the league in a couple of years? :banghead: 
2) still thinks this guy works on his game in the off-season? :banghead:
3) still thinks there's no way in hell Pax should consider trading this guy? :banghead: 

EC has more natural talent than everyone on DB's list except Olajuwon and Robinson, and debatably Benjamin (who was Curry before EC came around) and Daugherty. the rest of those guys on that list -- Ewing, Mourning, Smits -- worked their asses off to improve every year.


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## settinUpShop (Jun 8, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>fleetwood macbull</b>!
> Shaq is the standard. He's got a career average of 12.1
> hes never been below 10.7
> he had 3 years of 13+
> ...


Is shaq longer than eddy? I always thought Eddy was.


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## The 6ft Hurdle (Jan 25, 2003)

I don't think Eddy'll ever be the main rebounder for a team, nor should he ever be forced to. So I don't care too much about his rebounding numbers. With the way things are going, I think he's on his way to a slightly-better-Rik Smits-like career and, whatever, that's just fine (as long as it means it wins championships for "the Bull" [biting off *Wynn !*'s style ]). Outside of some super religious, spiritual experience, I don't think there's anything that will change Eddy's work ethic/personality, meaning, I think his work ethic/personality will probably always revert to being the same. It seems like he can be temporarily changed, but sustaining this change is always a problem. However, I think a lot of his basketball mechanics can still be fixed regardless of work ethic.


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## fleetwood macbull (Jan 23, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>DaBullz</b>!
> 20/10 is very good for a PF. It's not so good for a C.
> 
> Eddy's supposed to be a real C in a C starved league. Compare him to REAL C's:
> ...


IMO 20-10 is absolutely exceptional for a center. 
and comparing Eddy to the greatest centers of all time, strikes me as exceptionally unfair, especially a guy who's 22 years old. All these guys went to college besides, and weren't handed anything like Eddy was, who's honestly spoiled, but not ruined yet

look, i never said Eddy didn't have all world abilities. Or was in danger of underutlizing his gifts.
But come on, if he's not in this class you have here, Or produces like Oneal, you guys have a problem with that? You have a problem if hes a 20-10 guy? Man this is so harsh. He's already to the point where he can potentially get Daugherty, or Seikely type numbers at some point, and that suposed to be dissapointing?
....thats plenty good in my book. Smits even, and don't tell me hes going to have 6RPG for his next 10 years, because he won't.

what if Eddy get 16 and 8.5? Is that so bad for a center? Thats pretty damn good..........BTW, he's going to be closer to being a 20-10 guy. Thats getting it done as a 5 point blank


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## QRICH (Feb 2, 2004)

If Curry does turn out to be a 16/8 player, would you call him a bust?

He was taken #3 overall, and you had guys taken below him..Zach Randolph for example, a 20/10 player. 

If you could redo the 2001 draft, would you still take the Chandler/Curry duo?

If not, who would you take?


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## fleetwood macbull (Jan 23, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Lakota_Blazer</b>!
> If Curry does turn out to be a 16/8 player, would you call him a bust?
> 
> He was taken #3 overall, and you had guys taken below him..Zach Randolph for example, a 20/10 player.
> ...


#4 actually

and i wouldn't call him a bust. I'd call him neither boom nor bust as a #4, because you have to take into account that he's a center. Especialy if he learns to D up. Center who can do these things are valuable period. The draft is over. I don't care about Randolph. everybody missed on Randolph. I'm just saying Eddy is a center. He doesn't need to be Ewing to be valuable. If we keep looking for a HOF guy, were always going to be  

only 22 freaking years old he is. Old enough to produce though..and he's not a drag, he's almost ready to be a mini force

and i don't think hes a 16-8 guy. I think he's closer to a 20-8 or 9 or 10 even.........plenty to make me happy. Satisfied? No, but the abuse this kid takes because hes big agile and full of upside is ridiculous. I make fun of him too. but not seriously. If you seriously have a problem with what he brings to the table, you're unreasonable. It sounds reasonable at first blush to ask a guy to be all that he can be. And if you are E-Rob, and you don't produce much at all at at the most easily filled position you're absolutely right. But a center who will put up Eddy's projected numbers, is good enough. I know Eddy doesn't play hard enough, but he's not cancerous like E-Rob. He at least tries to do what the staff wants
You are nailing him for what he doesn't do. Try appreciating what he does, or will be able to do at a hard to fill position (with the caveat that he learns to D-up), and be


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## Salvaged Ship (Jul 10, 2002)

*7'0" 295 (his Berto Center measurements this summer)*

Isn't that the same measurements of Kevin Duckworth and Benoit Benjamin in their primes?


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## fleetwood macbull (Jan 23, 2004)

http://eiuhalloffame.tripod.com/duckworth/defendduck.html

defend Duck! :yes:


:laugh: Eddy is no where near Duck in areas of body dynamics.
Give Eddy a break! :sup:


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## QRICH (Feb 2, 2004)

What's the feeling on Curry by a majority of Bull fans? do they still see him as a cornerstone of your franchise? would you trade him if the right deal came along?


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## fleetwood macbull (Jan 23, 2004)

seems everybody wants Eddy, which says something about him, and about centers. I don't know. He's 22. Anybody can get traded, but don't try to pawn off.
Is he a cornerstone? we don't know what he is. coach killer or future allstar. But anyone who wants him traded should be damn sure what they're doing. I'm not trading my center unless i have a center or get a center. Eddy will be a force at a hard to fill position. Those aren't dealt readily


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## Showtyme (Jun 24, 2002)

Zydrunas Ilgauskas: 15.3 and 8.1 rpg last year. 14.4 ppg and 7.5 career. Widely considered to be a top 5 center in the league (Shaq, Ben Wallace, Divac, Magloire, Brad Miller).

Lamar Odom: 17.1 and 9.7 rpg last year. 16.2 and 8 career. Does this make Odom a better center than Ilgauskas?

Let's get over the rebounding stats. Eddy's not a great rebounder. Can he do better? Sure. Does he have to do a LOT better? I dunno. I'd settle for Ilgauskas right now.


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## LB26matrixns (May 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>DaBullz</b>!
> 
> 
> According to Yahoo! sports, Eddy was 21st among centers.


Sorry I missed the little tab that said playoffs lol. Cbssportsline has Eddy 22nd, BUT he's only 1.5 RPG from being in the top 9. Based on his growth per season so far it is very easy to argue that he'll get that. Tyson was 20th at power forward and Antonio Davis was 8th at center.


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## LB26matrixns (May 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Scuall</b>!
> 
> 
> I think the 7-8 hours estimate is more accurate, taking into account traffic. Maybe if you left after 9:00 PM, a 5.5 hour drive would be realistic. Leave Friday afternoon on Memorial Day weekend... it might take several days to get there


Two things....don't forget that mapquest is with the speed limit. If you speed like most people by 10 MPG you usually get there probably 45 mins quicker. Most traffic still goes pretty fast.......ESPECIALLY on that drive. You don't go through a lot of high traffic areas until you're very close.


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## LB26matrixns (May 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>John The Cool Kid</b>!
> Theres no excuse for Eddys rebounding struggles. At his size, length and quickness he should be grabbing 13-14 per game. Theres no need to make excuses about that.


Forget excuses.......lets talk reality. He's 21. He improved 1 RPG from his first year and two from his second year. He does that again and he'll be 22 years old and a top ten rebounding center. But that probably still won't be good enough for some people.....I mean if Eddy has a six pack it won't be ok for him to take a vacation for a week without getting authorization from message board posters.

Also.....Eddy ranked no lower at RPG at center than Tyson did at PF.

*How about CBSsportsline ranking Jamal and Kirk 52nd and 53rd in FG% amongst PGs. WOW......can't wait to hear your gang of excuses for that*

They didn't even rank Jamal at SG.....they ranked him at PG and he couldn't bust the top 50. He would have ranked 59th at SG.


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## LB26matrixns (May 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Wynn</b>!
> According to NBA.com, the following "centers" had more rebounds/game than Big Ed:
> 
> Ben Wallace
> ...


Do you find it kind of funny that *the Bulls also have the 9th ranked center in RPG Antonio Davis?* Wow I didn't know that all those guys were splitting time with the 9th ranked rebounding center. 

Case in point.... Vlade Divac, pretty good right? Well Brad Miller is fifth on the list and I dont see Divac ahead of Curry.


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## Wynn (Jun 3, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>LB26matrixns</b>!
> 
> 
> Do you find it kind of funny that *the Bulls also have the 9th ranked center in RPG Antonio Davis?* Wow I didn't know that all those guys were splitting time with the 9th ranked rebounding center.
> ...


Interesting that you point that out. This is the first of his 15 seasons that Vlade has not been better than 6.2 rebounds/game. Vlade as also 36 years old. On the other hand, this is by far the best rebounding season of Eddy.

*On the Kings:*

Brad -- 10.3 rpg
Webber -- 8.7 rpg
Peja -- 6.3 rpg

The rebounds were there to be gotten. When is the last time you saw Vlade jump? I don't think he has any cartiledge in his knees.

I know Eddy is young. I'm not saying he won't get better. My post was in rebuttal of people who feel Eddy's rebounding numbers are good enough. They simply aren't.

Are you suggesting that Eddy's 29.5 minutes/game aren't enough? That AD's minutes are taking away from his? I guess in a way it was unfair to include AD because he was mostly playing PF. So bump Eddy up one on the food chain. As I noted in my earlier post, only three teams did not have at least two players with more rebounds than Eddy. It certainly can't be our system, because we have three players on our own roster who have better numbers.


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## LB26matrixns (May 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Wynn</b>!
> 
> 
> Interesting that you point that out. This is the first of his 15 seasons that Vlade has not been better than 6.2 rebounds/game. Vlade as also 36 years old. On the other hand, this is by far the best rebounding season of Eddy.


Eddy is 21 years old. How many rebounds did Vlade have at 21....oh wait he wasn't in the NBA yet at 21. Not good enough to make it just yet I guess.



> *On the Kings:*
> 
> Brad -- 10.3 rpg
> Webber -- 8.7 rpg
> ...


Of course.....I don't think anyone here is saying Eddy is good enough. I'm not all happy because I think Eddy is gonna average 14.7 and 6.2 again. If he just improves at the rate he's already improved at annually.....we'll be looking at an NBA dominator in a couple years. Especially with Shaq aging. 

Eddy is averaging an improvement of 4 PPG an 1.2 RPG annually. If you just add that to this years totals that would be good for:

18.7 PPG 7.4 RPG

That would have been good enough for a 3rd ranking in PPG and a T-10th ranking in RPG amongst NBA centers this season. At age 22 I'll take it. It's obvious that Eddy didn't play until he was 15. It's obvious that his coaches at Thornwood taught him nothing. It's obvious that dealing with Floyd and Cartwright didn't teach him much else. His positioning and his lack of instinct from limited lifetime playing experience are what's hindering him. Eddy is obviously a developmental project with EXTREMELY high dividends. And when I say project I don't mean Yinka Dare or Sagana Diop. I just mean that Eddy is missing a couple VERY important things that don't take a long time to develop with coaching and experience. But the funny thing is......while Eddy will learn those over the next two years I doubt Jamaal Magloire will be learning how to gain 36 pounds and 6" on his wingspan all while keeping the same athleticism. 

Look Eddy could have been a fine rebounder had he gone to college for four years. There his physical tools would have been meshed with nearly daily one-on-one instruction (which I believe Skiles is doing a DECENT job at, NBA coaches just don't have the same time to work with individuals).....but you know what? We never would have gotten Eddy.....he would have been the number 1 pick of the 2005 draft. 

I heard someone say Eddy never averaged 10 RPG in high school. Why do you think that is? Because he doesn't have the physical tools? No.....the kid never played until he was 15 and then he had terrible coaches. 

Any time any of you want to meet me in the south suburbs.....I can take you in to meet the coaches at Thornwood. They're some real pieces of work. About as far from Pete Newell or John Wooden as the fry guy at your local burger king.


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## The 6ft Hurdle (Jan 25, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>LB26matrixns</b>!
> 
> 
> Two things....don't forget that mapquest is with the speed limit. If you speed like most people by 10 MPG you usually get there probably 45 mins quicker. Most traffic still goes pretty fast.......ESPECIALLY on that drive. You don't go through a lot of high traffic areas until you're very close.


Yeah if only I didn't have to ride with other people who have the nerve to engage in such time-consuming activities along the way such as eating AND emptying their bowels at a different time, usually just about 30 minutes later. :upset: 

:meditate:


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## Showtyme (Jun 24, 2002)

High schoolers don't come out and average double-digit rebounding. Amare got 8.8 in 31+ mpg. Garnett got 8 in his first year with significant minutes, in 38.9 mpg.

Curry averages 10 rpg per 48 mpg. In those years when the two players first got significant minutes, Amare averaged 13 per 48, while Garnett averaged 9.9 rpg per 48 mpg.

But forget all that, I guess. I'm not going to play with stats, because the truth is that Curry is not a good rebounder at all. It's easy to observe when you watch him play; he doesn't leap for the ball, he doesn't box out well, and when a shot is taken, he doesn't crash boards or even make that effort unless he's already nearby, guarding his guy or on offense in the post. They should teach him that boxing out is the best man defense as well, right? That keeping the focus on cleaning the boards with box-outs every defensive possession will inevitably result in Curry physically keeping his man away from the hoop?

My conclusions:

1. He's bad at rebounding.

2. He's getting better.

3. Not that much better.

4. But better enough to be an average rebounding center.

5. That will be enough to make our team work. Some teams don't even have centers.  Chandler and AD and other scrappy rebounding types will more than clean up the slack.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>fleetwood macbull</b>!
> 
> IMO 20-10 is absolutely exceptional for a center.
> and comparing Eddy to the greatest centers of all time, strikes me as exceptionally unfair, especially a guy who's 22 years old. All these guys went to college besides, and weren't handed anything like Eddy was, who's honestly spoiled, but not ruined yet
> ...


I didn't compare Eddy to the greatest centers of all time. I compared Eddy to the centers who were playing 10 years ago, when the league wasn't starved for centers.

Look, those guys had to play against each other and still put up those numbers. Who does Eddy have to play against? Dale Davis?


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## The 6ft Hurdle (Jan 25, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>DaBullz</b>!
> 
> Look, those guys had to play against each other and still put up those numbers. Who does Eddy have to play against? Dale Davis?


Actually, ANTONIO Davis, the 9th best rebounding center who maliciously takes rebounds away from Eddy. Get your facts straight. There is no proof that Dale Davis is on the Bulls.

As you can see in their webpages, Dale Davis clearly sports a Blazers logo 

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/dale_davis/index.html?nav=page

Whereas Antonio Davis clearly sports a Bulls logo

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/antonio_davis/index.html?nav=page

Therefore Eddy plays against ANTONIO Davis.

Case closed.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>E L D R U H M A I</b>!
> 
> Actually, ANTONIO Davis, the 9th best rebounding center who maliciously takes rebounds away from Eddy. Get your facts straight. There is no proof that Dale Davis is on the Bulls.
> 
> ...


Maybe he plays against AD in practice. In games, opposing centers are guys like Dale Davis and other PFs playing out of position.


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## The 6ft Hurdle (Jan 25, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>DaBullz</b>!
> 
> 
> Maybe he plays against AD in practice. In games, opposing centers are guys like Dale Davis and other PFs playing out of position.


DaBullz,


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## The 6ft Hurdle (Jan 25, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>DaBullz</b>!
> 
> 
> Maybe he plays against AD in practice. In games, opposing centers are guys like Dale Davis and other PFs playing out of position.


you know waht...they're both close to 7 ft tall, therefore they hav to play each other in practice...what are u? blind? sumnne needs to check their logic...


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>E L D R U H M A I</b>!
> 
> you know waht...they're both close to 7 ft tall, therefore they hav to play each other in practice...what are u? blind? sumnne needs to check their logic...


You do.

The point I made is that the league is center starved. If it really is, then Curry is playing in games against guys like Dale Davis. He should dominate MORE than those Cs of 10 years ago because those guys had to play against each other in games.

Would Ewing dominate against Dale Davis? Of course. <B>Ewing had to play against Hakeem</B> in games, which make his stats even more impressive.

Ewing grabbed 10+ RPG, yet he had Oakley as a teammate grabbing as many rebounds as AD (more than AD actually). Olajuwan grabbed 12 RPG with Otis Thorpe as his teammate; Thorpe grabbed 10.6 RPG.

Having a strong rebounding teammate is NO excuse for poor rebounding numbers.


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## The 6ft Hurdle (Jan 25, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>DaBullz</b>!
> 
> 
> You do.
> ...


HEY!!!!!!!!!!!!:upset: your making me mad with all these facts and figures!!!!! look at the icon to get a feeling of my upsetness! you still havent proved that dale davis plays ANTONIO davis more. that was my point (and obviously my point is more important). case closed. i win. 

lbmatrix back me up and show this message board punk what i'm tlaking about, yeah!


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## LB26matrixns (May 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Showtyme</b>!
> High schoolers don't come out and average double-digit rebounding. Amare got 8.8 in 31+ mpg. Garnett got 8 in his first year with significant minutes, in 38.9 mpg.
> 
> Curry averages 10 rpg per 48 mpg. In those years when the two players first got significant minutes, Amare averaged 13 per 48, while Garnett averaged 9.9 rpg per 48 mpg.
> ...


Good post....don't you think the reason has more to do with a lack of instinct because he didn't play ball until he was 15 and then had horrible coaches in high school?


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## LB26matrixns (May 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>DaBullz</b>!
> 
> 
> I didn't compare Eddy to the greatest centers of all time. I compared Eddy to the centers who were playing 10 years ago, when the league wasn't starved for centers.
> ...


Great point!! Eddy is playing NOW and not then, which means the worse the other centers are.....the bigger weapon he becomes for the Bulls. VERY good point.....I'm glad you brought that up.


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## LB26matrixns (May 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>DaBullz</b>!
> 
> 
> You do.
> ...


Ehhh take Olajuwon's heyday......Shaq and Ewing comprised a total of four games of his schedule....with David Robinson taking another 4. Can you name me Golden State's center in 93? The Clippers? The Jazz? Seattle?

Eddy should be rebouding more.....when he turns 22, 23 you will see his numbers up there. Just by virtue of the fact that he improves every year, most of the leagues good centers are older and thus declining, and Eddy is the only center his age or younger that is any good besides Hilario.....if you call Nene center and not Camby.


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## Wynn (Jun 3, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>LB26matrixns</b>!
> 
> Eddy should be rebouding more.....when he turns 22, 23 you will see his numbers up there. Just by virtue of the fact that he improves every year, most of the leagues good centers are older and thus declining, and Eddy is the only center his age or younger that is any good besides Hilario.....if you call Nene center and not Camby.


*DaBullz!* has pointed out on other threads that Eddy's stats have improved as a function of minutes played, not as a function of better efficiency.

*Eddy in 2001-2002* 16.0 mpg -- 3.8 rpg -- .24 rb/min
*Eddy in 2002-2003* 19.4 mpg -- 4.4 rpg -- .23 rb/min
*Eddy in 2003-2004* 29.5 mpg -- 6.2 rpg -- .21 rb/min

These numbers show, in fact, that as Eddy gets more minutes he becomes an even LESS efficient rebounder. Another way to show this is the "per 48" stat. Eddy's rebounds per 48 minutes have gotten worse every year in the league. As *Showtyme!* so rightly points out, Eddy is grabbing 10 rebounds per 48 minutes. So all we need to do to get Eddy 10 rpg is to make sure he plays at least 48 minutes per night.

........actually, given that his efficiency gets worse with longer minutes, we'll likely need him on the floor 53 or 54 minutes per night.

Now this thread has turned into a rebounding thread, but the original direction was that if he works on his scoring then his rebounds are unnecessary. Eddy's scoring numbers are as follows:

*Eddy in 2001-2002* 16.0 mpg -- 06.7 ppg -- .42 pts/min
*Eddy in 2002-2003* 19.4 mpg -- 10.5 ppg -- .54 pts/min
*Eddy in 2003-2004* 29.5 mpg -- 14.7 ppg -- .50 pts/min

In effect, after a very nice improvement from year 1 to year 2, his scoring got worse in the third year. Again, though, it appears his improvement was due to increased minutes, NOT improved performance.


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## LB26matrixns (May 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Wynn</b>!
> 
> 
> *DaBullz!* has pointed out on other threads that Eddy's stats have improved as a function of minutes played, not as a function of better efficiency.
> ...


And this is the first offseason where Eddy has ever had a good teaching coach like Skiles. I expect efficiency improvement as well. 

So if Eddy gets 36 MPG and goes up to 7.5 RPG and Antonio and Tyson are still holding it down......you're still gonna talk like you hate him?

Wow man. As days go by I am starting to hope Eddy goes elsewhere and makes everyone here sorry. He's easily a better prospect than Kirk, Chandler or Crawford.

Way to respond everyone to my question on why no one talks about Kirk Hinrich and Jamal Crawford ranking 53rd and 52nd in FG% at the PG POSITION!!


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## LB26matrixns (May 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Wynn</b>!
> 
> 
> *DaBullz!* has pointed out on other threads that Eddy's stats have improved as a function of minutes played, not as a function of better efficiency.
> ...


BTW who is your favorite Bull? I can't wait for you to answer so I can rip him apart just to prove a point.

Ah probably a waste of time.....I'll end up getting the Bobby Knight effort speech, like:

1. Eddy gives as little effort as his haters think he does
2. Effort alone can make you not suck when you......suck....


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## The 6ft Hurdle (Jan 25, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>LB26matrixns</b>!
> 
> 
> And this is the first offseason where Eddy has ever had a good teaching coach like Skiles. I expect efficiency improvement as well.
> ...


Why do I always get the feeling that you're jumping around from your left to your right foot and back and forth like Yosemite Sam when he shoots his foot ? Darn Ooooh oooh ahh aahhhhhh.



To answer your question, maybe because the point guard position is the farthest from the basket and it's not really something point guards do the best in the league ?


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## LB26matrixns (May 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>E L D R U H M A I</b>!
> 
> Why do I always get the feeling that you're jumping around from your left to your right foot and back and forth like Yosemite Sam when he shoots his foot ? Darn Ooooh oooh ahh aahhhhhh.
> 
> ...


Ahhh but 52 POINT GUARDS ranked ahead of Kirk Hinrich. Not 53rd in FG% in the NBA....53rd AMONGST PGs.


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## The 6ft Hurdle (Jan 25, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>LB26matrixns</b>!
> 
> 
> Ahhh but 52 POINT GUARDS ranked ahead of Kirk Hinrich. Not 53rd in FG% in the NBA....53rd AMONGST PGs.


No the point is that, there's no real point to bringing that up in this thread. You're just tearing one guy down just to make whatever you like look better.


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## LB26matrixns (May 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>E L D R U H M A I</b>!
> 
> No the point is that, there's no real point to bringing that up in this thread. You're just tearing one guy down just to make whatever you like look better.


There is a point. Don't tell me there isn't a point. It should be fairly obvious. Some people here like to talk like we would have been 42-40 if we traded Eddy for Jamaal Magloire, thus suggesting that Eddy is the problem. 

Often these people hold Kirk or Tyson up as their favorites. Well Kirk and Tyson are not only culpable themselves, but Eddy is better than both prospects. 

If we're gonna get into "what's wrong with Eddy".....best believe we'll ALSO get into what's wrong with everyone else on this team.


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## Wynn (Jun 3, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>LB26matrixns</b>!
> 
> BTW who is your favorite Bull? I can't wait for you to answer so I can rip him apart just to prove a point.
> 
> ...


You're still relatively new to this board. Allow me to introduce myself. I am *Wynn!*, the idiot. I will freely admit that I know less about basketball than anyone else on this board. My favorite posters on this board are often on opposite sides of every debate, but I enjoy reading them because they bring facts to back up their positions and argue with a passion without getting personal. I hesitate to begin a list, because no doubt I'll offend someone through an oversite, but I'd love to give public props to people I've loved to read over the last few years here.

What drives me nuts, though, is people ranting and raving their opinions about players with absolutely no basis in objective reality. Drives me nuts when a posters favoritism (or dislike) for a particular player blinds them to his faults (or merits).

One day, as we all grow up, we realize that there is a middle ground. We can like *&* dislike certain attributes about a player/system/coach without going ballistic on a message board about said individual.

You'll find as you stay here longer (and I hope you will!) that I rarely add anything of substance to this board. I enjoy oneliners and am probably off-topic more than is preferred by most. I come here to read more than to post, as here in Chattanooga there is very little (if anything) to feed my need to follow the Bull!

Every once in a while I'll put together a post that actually provides an opinion. Even less frequently, I'll churn out some facts. I feel it's my duty to maintain at least a semblance of a contribution to keep from being banned through apathy. Thinking, though, requires much more work than I'm usually willing to put into my daily read. What provokes me to think, often, are posts that were clearly made BEFORE thinking. This unsettles my balance of things, and so I try to set them right. I appreciate you and others for giving me these opportunities, as without them, I'd likely roll over and die from general lethargy.

As to your question, I don't think I have a favorite Bull. I am certainly fond of Curry, Chandler, Crawdaddy, and Hinrich. I like the way that JYD and AD approach the game, though I REALLY dislike their contracts. I think I will enjoy all of the new rookies. I like to see guys like Lint, Pargo, & Dupree work their tails off to make their dreams come true. I like JWill and hope he recovers against all odds and is able to play ball at some level again. I like that Pax and Skiles seem to put their principles ahead of immediate wins, as frustratin as it can be at times, with the ultimate goal being the betterment of the game. I liked BCs scowl on the sidelines.

I dislike ERob and everything that he stands for. I was on the fence about Fizer, but rooted for the kid to "get it" one day, which he may do in another uniform. I disliked Rose. I dislike going into every off-season expecting us to acquire an SF and being disappointed year after year.

I guess, most of all, I enjoy moderation. I enjoy respectful dialogue. I enjoy inciteful comments and hearing how others think the team can improve. I enjoy how people interpret the facts to gain perspective on their views. 

I'm not a big fan of unsubstantiated opinions. Especially not those shouted across the ethers ad nauseum until more reasonable people simply stop replying in realization that no reply will matter. Nobody "wins" in these situations.

I also enjoy common courtesy and respect.

Peace!


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## Robert23 (Dec 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>LB26matrixns</b>!
> 
> 
> There is a point. Don't tell me there isn't a point. It should be fairly obvious. Some people here like to talk like we would have been 42-40 if we traded Eddy for Jamaal Magloire, thus suggesting that Eddy is the problem.
> ...


This is some pretty funny stuff. I like how you jump around the issue. Now all of a sudden this isn't about Eddy needing to improve his rebounding it how the rest of the guys failed the team not Eddy. It's clearly Eddy's 2nd grade teacher's fault that Eddy isn't a good rebounder. Also his parents are at fault too. If they would have forced him into basketball at 2. He would have the basketball instincts to dominate now. I also blame David Stern for not hiring a personal coach for Eddy to teach him the fundamentals. It's a fact it everybody else's fault that he isn't a good rebounder. So he shouldn't have to improve because it's not his fault.


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## fleetwood macbull (Jan 23, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Wynn</b>!
> 
> 
> You're still relatively new to this board. Allow me to introduce myself. I am *Wynn!*, the idiot. I will freely admit that I know less about basketball than anyone else on this board. My favorite posters on this board are often on opposite sides of every debate, but I enjoy reading them because they bring facts to back up their positions and argue with a passion without getting personal. I hesitate to begin a list, because no doubt I'll offend someone through an oversite, but I'd love to give public props to people I've loved to read over the last few years here.
> ...


:idea:


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## LB26matrixns (May 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Wynn</b>!
> 
> 
> You're still relatively new to this board. Allow me to introduce myself. I am *Wynn!*, the idiot. I will freely admit that I know less about basketball than anyone else on this board. My favorite posters on this board are often on opposite sides of every debate, but I enjoy reading them because they bring facts to back up their positions and argue with a passion without getting personal. I hesitate to begin a list, because no doubt I'll offend someone through an oversite, but I'd love to give public props to people I've loved to read over the last few years here.
> ...


Thanks for the condescending diary. See I was gonna do this crazy thing after your admission called "fact finding".....let's say you had just said Jamal Crawford. I was going to go "find facts" that would show Eddy much better than Jamal.....without any real attack on you whatsoever (we'd be fooling ourselves to say there wasn't an implicit attack on your credibility).

If you read my posts you'll see that I probably incorporate numbers and facts into my posts as well as anybody. 

Also...there is nothing worse than someone who tries to paint someone else a black sheep when they've done nothing wrong. Did I insult you? Attack you? Anything against the TOS toward you? No.  I was going to attack your favorite player the same way you attack Eddy.

I'll be respectful to you. I'd just like people to stop attacking Eddy like he's the antichrist.


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## LB26matrixns (May 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Robert23</b>!
> 
> 
> This is some pretty funny stuff. I like how you jump around the issue. Now all of a sudden this isn't about Eddy needing to improve his rebounding it how the rest of the guys failed the team not Eddy. It's clearly Eddy's 2nd grade teacher's fault that Eddy isn't a good rebounder. Also his parents are at fault too. If they would have forced him into basketball at 2. He would have the basketball instincts to dominate now. I also blame David Stern for not hiring a personal coach for Eddy to teach him the fundamentals. It's a fact it everybody else's fault that he isn't a good rebounder. So he shouldn't have to improve because it's not his fault.


LOL Robert I loved stuffing your arguments down your throat at realgm.com but I'll refrain here.

I said I want Eddy to improve as a rebounder. Your condescending tone would ALMOST be amusing if you knew how to check facts. Quotes from this thread:



> Eddy should be rebouding more


Did I say that in the last 15 posts....yes I did.



> Forget excuses


I said that.



> Of course.....*I don't think anyone here is saying Eddy is good enough.* I'm not all happy because I think Eddy is gonna average 14.7 and 6.2 again.[/b]


Wow....."Robert"......how is it not about Eddy needing to improve? Looks like I said exactly the opposite. It just shouldn't be about Eddy being a scapegoat or made out to be some Eddie Robinson. 

But I think one thing is clear.......you may not be qualified to read my opinions and say what they are or aren't about.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

What I wouldn't give to have Curry starting alongside Bosh for the Raptors. I think we all expect marked improvement this season, both in Eddy's game and the Bulls as a whole. Eddy should average at least 8 rebounds per game and should be in the top 3 in FG%. He's playing for a contract and he'll also be playing for the postseason, I have the feeling he'll be in pretty good shape after training camp.


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## Wynn (Jun 3, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>LB26matrixns</b>!
> 
> I'll be respectful to you. I'd just like people to stop attacking Eddy like he's the antichrist.


I actually *DO* like Eddy, though. But he needs to be a better rebounder.

No antichrist.

Sorry about the condescension. I get that way when I type more than three lines at a time.



_Back when I used to be *Spags!/BullHawk!/JohnPaxson!* I could just use another screen name when I was ready to shift into condescension mode._


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>LB26matrixns</b>!
> 
> 
> And this is the first offseason where Eddy has ever had a good teaching coach like Skiles. I expect efficiency improvement as well.
> ...


bill cartwright was his head coach and his big man coach , say what you will about cartwrights coaching of guards but every big man on the team had his best moments under him (curry , TC , fizer, baxter) plus ol mr. bill must know something chandler is a great rebounder as is baxter and fizer was getting better at it , everyone but curry .

its not always the teacher's fault the student doesn't learn, kid , sometimes its the student. I mean c'mon he has the best trainer in the business and he keeps coming in out of shape , so does that mean tim grover doesn't know what he is talking about too? that nobody knows but curry who inexplicably keeps it to himself.


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## LB26matrixns (May 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Wynn</b>!
> 
> 
> I actually *DO* like Eddy, though. But he needs to be a better rebounder.
> ...


You're good people


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## Robert23 (Dec 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>LB26matrixns</b>!
> 
> 
> LOL Robert I loved stuffing your arguments down your throat at realgm.com but I'll refrain here.


Yeah you probably should. Because it would be pretty hard to dig up threads that never happened.




> Wow....."Robert"......how is it not about Eddy needing to improve? Looks like I said exactly the opposite. It just shouldn't be about Eddy being a scapegoat or made out to be some Eddie Robinson.


Umm.... let me refresh your memory. Your post said it wasn't all Eddy's fault that the Bulls didn't go 42- 40. It was as much other peoples fault. And that negates the fact Eddy needs to improve how? And who was saying it was all Eddy's fault? Everytime some one criticizes Eddy's need to improve you jump in with your tired "it's everybody elses fault not Eddy's" argument. 



> But I think one thing is clear.......you may not be qualified to read my opinions and say what they are or aren't about.


Your nice little snippets of what you've said earlier demonstrate my point. Your jumping all over the issue. And your probably right about being qualified to read your opinions. I don't believe the world is to blame for Eddy's development.


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## LB26matrixns (May 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>happygrinch</b>!
> 
> 
> bill cartwright was his head coach and his big man coach , say what you will about cartwrights coaching of guards but every big man on the team had his best moments under him (curry , TC , fizer, baxter) plus ol mr. bill must know something chandler is a great rebounder as is baxter and fizer was getting better at it , everyone but curry .
> ...


Eddy came in out of shape ONCE....unlike your boy Fizer who came in at Eddy's weight despite being 6'8".

BTW sure was nice to see Fizer improve from 4.3 RPG his rookie year to 4.4 RPG 3 years later, never getting above 5.7 RPG and averaging 5.0 RPG in 4 years in Chicago. This despite being older as a ROOKIE than Eddy is now.

You want to talk about a fat waste.....Fizer was a fat waste.


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## LB26matrixns (May 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Robert23</b>!
> 
> 
> Yeah you probably should. Because it would be pretty hard to dig up threads that never happened.
> ...


Eddy isn't the even 5th in the blame line for the Bulls season last year. The arguments aren't tired. Pick one of the following and we'll argue as to which was the bigger reason, your pick or Eddy:

Tyson's back
Jay Williams
Jalen Rose
Jamal Crawford
Bill Cartwright
Eddie Robinson
Marcus Fizer

Please.......make my afternoon a fun one.

At the same time....Eddy DOES need to improve his rebounding. Absolutely. Both can be true. Eddy not being the main reason that we lost so much, or even close, AND him needing to improve his rebounding can both be true....


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## Robert23 (Dec 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>LB26matrixns</b>!
> 
> 
> Eddy isn't the even 5th in the blame line for the Bulls season last year. The arguments aren't tired. Pick one of the following and we'll argue as to which was the bigger reason, your pick or Eddy:
> ...


So it was Jalen Rose's fault for last season? You realize he was in Toronto most of last season don't you? And I disagree Eddy is in the top 5 reasons for last years failed season. He came in out of shape and not ready. He is our best player and he wasn't ready. That puts a bigger portion of the blame on him. Obviously there was other major reasons. Like not having JWill and TC which had a huge effect. But if you can't blame Eddy for last years record than your not going to be able to praise him for the Bulls improvement this year.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>LB26matrixns</b>!
> 
> 
> Eddy came in out of shape ONCE....unlike your boy Fizer who came in at Eddy's weight despite being 6'8".
> ...


curry has never started a season prepared to play 30 minute games , thats just a fact, not in his rookie year not ever , in fact curry and chandler had to do high school drills because they weren't up to where the pro's were pyhsically in the rookie years.

fizer was hurt and also fizer played less minutes...at their respective rates fizer would be outboarding curry by 2 a game if he played curr'ys minutes, but by the end of the season he had a 20 board night , i dont believe curry has ever had more than 14 , so comparing their rebounding abilities are a little out of whack.

so while you endlessly defend curry dont you find it odd that he isn't a good rebounder , not even avg. in fact he's a bad rebounder, and back to curry he only got as many as 9 boards in a game 19 times , not even 10 boards 9 boards he can barely manage 1/4th of the time

jyd did this 24 times and he spent the last month basically out of the rotation

tc 13 and he missed literally months during the season and was benched after nov.

AD...38 times...

i mean c'mon he is the biggest guy on the team and he is the most timid when it comes to doing the big man stuff , he doesn't board , block shots , or provide a presence down there , i like him as much as the next guy but to blindly defend his flaws by attacking what other bulls do (even though they still do it better than curry) is pure sillyness


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## Johnny Mac (May 6, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>LB26matrixns</b>!
> Forget excuses.......lets talk reality. He's 21. He improved 1 RPG from his first year and two from his second year. He does that again and he'll be 22 years old and a top ten rebounding center. But that probably still won't be good enough for some people.....I mean if Eddy has a six pack it won't be ok for him to take a vacation for a week without getting authorization from message board posters.
> 
> Also.....Eddy ranked no lower at RPG at center than Tyson did at PF.
> ...


I dont see Kirk and Jamal shooting under 40% with the obvious ability to shoot over 50%. Curry has the obvious ability to grab 13 rebounds, and yet he only gets 8.


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## charlietyra (Dec 1, 2002)

I just got in from a short vacation and saw this post. I don't care what they said at Berto about Eddy's height. He is NOT a seven footer. This is, and always has been, wishful thinking on behalf of Bulls fans. Please, please, please, just look at him at games where he is matched up against true seven footers before you make this judgment. If you do and the consensus is that Eddy is a seven footer I will publicly apologize on this board.

I know you folks probably think I am crazy for posting this but this is how certain I am about this issue.


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## Sith (Oct 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>John The Cool Kid</b>!
> 
> 
> I dont see Kirk and Jamal shooting under 40% with the obvious ability to shoot over 50%. Curry has the obvious ability to grab 13 rebounds, and yet he only gets 8.


whats so obvious about curry that hes going to grab 13 rebs a game? is it his size? in case u didnt know, there have been like 1 or 2 people averaged more than 13rebs a game every year for a while now. its not that easy. i could say its obvious that kirk has the ability to average 10assists a game, and yet he only got 6+.


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## garnett (May 13, 2003)

It's obvious because he should be able to do because of his combination of size, strength, athletisism, quickness. JTCK has mentioned it a few times.


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## Johnny Mac (May 6, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Sith</b>!
> whats so obvious about curry that hes going to grab 13 rebs a game? is it his size? in case u didnt know, there have been like 1 or 2 people averaged more than 13rebs a game every year for a while now. its not that easy. i could say its obvious that kirk has the ability to average 10assists a game, and yet he only got 6+.


Whats so obvious about Curry that makes me think he should be averaging 13 rebounds? 

He has the size, he is 7'0 295 lbs. 
He had the wide frame to keep bodies boxed out
He has the quickness to get to the ball first
He has long arms to get the ball from different angles and at different peaks
He has the great hands to hold onto it and rebound the harder caroms

What doesnt he have? There is nothing about Eddys physical attributes thats holding him back, nothing. Hes huge, hes wide, hes quick, he has long arms, he has great hands. Its all mental with Curry, whether it be laziness or just no reflexes, or just plain lack of basketball intelligence. If he was average in those mental aspects, he would be grabbing 13 a game.


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## fleetwood macbull (Jan 23, 2004)

with Eddy, its not all between the ears. much of it is, but he's not really the perfect rebounding specimin physically. Good, but not Shaqlike 13 rpg ability. And its not all lack of desire either

I can't beleiev we think Eddy can rebound, or should rebound like Shaq. Eddy is point blank, not as good, in any area other than FT shooting and maybe touch around the hoop (probably only due to Shaqs wrist lock deformity)

Eddy has poor instincts, and he's not very good quick jumper, and he's not as explosive as Shaq. Therfor he never will have this 13 rpg capability like Shaq. 
Its not easy for a big man to out jump and out hustle these wiry quick twitching PF types. or beat them up and down the floor. Thats another problem for big guys.

Eddy can hang with the other big guys. Its the smaller guys that kill him on the glass. Shaq gets out hustled at times by the same guys, but he's also got great intincts and timing and explosion to make up for that to go with his size and strength. Eddy is more of a fluid athlete

Shaq is unique. 13 rpg for Eddy is not in the cards, or his capability. Hes only good for about 10rpg IMO. He just doesn't have the insticts


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## fleetwood macbull (Jan 23, 2004)

with Eddy, its not all between the ears. much of it is, but its also not all lack of desire

I can't believev we think Eddy can rebound, or should rebound like Shaq. Eddy is point blank, not as good, in any area other than FT shooting and maybe touch around the hoop (probably only due to Shaqs wrist lock deformity)

Eddy has poor instincts, and he's not very good quick jumper, and he's not as explosive as Shaq. Therfore he likely never will have this 13 rpg capability like Shaq. 
Its not easy as we are being told for a big man to out jump and out hustle these wiry quick twitching PF types. or beat them up and down the floor. Thats another problem for big guys.

this game is changing with smaller guys jumping around in the post

Eddy can hang with the other big guys. Its the smaller guys that kill him on the glass. Shaq gets out maneuvered at times by the same guys, but he's also got great intincts and timing and explosion to make up for that to go with his size and strength. Eddy is more of a fluid athlete, who does not have this level of physical (or mental)ability

Shaq is unique. 13 rpg for Eddy is not in the cards, or his capability.....................IMO He's got 10-11 rpg capabilty tops, not much more, because Eddy doesn't have all of Shaqs physical gifts , or mental ability...aside from desire


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