# Chris Duhon To Be Traded?



## ChadWick (Jun 26, 2006)

It looks like the Chicago Bulls are looking to shop Chris Duhon. According to HoopsHype, and the Chicago Tribune

http://www.hoopshype.com/

Thoughts?


----------



## McBulls (Apr 28, 2005)

Some team that needs a point guard is about to get very lucky. Duhon is a very good point guard -- better even than Hinrich. 

The Bulls have too many guards at present with Thabo Sefolosha working out, so they would probably lose Duhon to free agency next year anyway. So it wouldn't be surprising if Paxson traded him in an attempt to strenghen the Bulls frontcourt.


----------



## ChadWick (Jun 26, 2006)

McBulls said:


> Some team that needs a point guard is about to get very lucky. Duhon is a very good point guard -- better even than Hinrich.
> 
> The Bulls have too many guards at present with Thabo Sefolosha working out, so they would probably lose Duhon to free agency next year anyway. So it wouldn't be surprising if Paxson traded him in an attempt to strenghen the Bulls frontcourt.



I agree, I'd hate to see Duhon traded though...If Bulls do trade him, who do you think they would get in return? Maybe Duhon and a pick or filler for a PG about the same skill as Hinrich or Duhon and start them infront of Hinrich..


----------



## Bullsky (Jun 11, 2006)

McBulls said:


> Some team that needs a point guard is about to get very lucky. Duhon is a very good point guard -- better even than Hinrich.


I agree. I also think he's a better defender than people give him credit for.


----------



## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

Duhon is both valuable and expendable.It would hurt the bulls in depth at the point,but they should be able to get a pretty decent return on him.He might be the best point guard that would be available this offseason really.It'd be hard to count all the teams that could really use him.Both LA teams, Atlanta, Memphis,Milwaukee depending on what they do with Mo Williams...Approximately half the teams in the league.Even when you get past half the teams in the league where he'd be better or comparable to their starting point almost every team in the league would love to have a really competent backup.I'm sure that the Bulls are going to think pretty hard before they pull the trigger for that exact same reason.


----------



## ChadWick (Jun 26, 2006)

Bullsky said:


> I agree. I also think he's a better defender than people give him credit for.


I 100% agree with you, I was watching the Bulls on TV in the playoffs and Duhon was playing, and I noticed that people don't give him much credit for it, but he is a really good defender


----------



## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

Bullsky said:


> I agree. I also think he's a better defender than people give him credit for.


I find he is overrated defensively. Worse than Gordon/Hinrich for sure. He might be a better ball handler or passer than Hinrich/Gordon, or both in those departments, but his hesitance to shoot kills the offense. The point guard is suppose to initiate the offense, not kill it.

Anyhow, it'll be interesting what we could get for Duhon.

Is he going to Portland as part of a Zach Randolph package?

Bostin- Kendrick Perkins
Atlanta- Marvin Williams, Shelden Williams
New Jersey- Nenad Krstic
Cleveland- Drew Gooden
Charlotte- Emeka Okafor, Walter Herrman, Sean May
New York- David Lee, Channing Frye
Detroit- Jason Maxiell
Miami- Udonis Haslem
Washington- Brendan Haywood
Dallas- Desagna Diop
Denver- Marcus Camby
Golden St- Andris Biedrins, Patrick O'Bryant
Minnesota- Eddie Griffin
LA Clippers- Chris Kaman
LA Lakers- Andrew Bynum
Seattle- Nick Collison
Phoenix- Boris Diaw (Poison Pill, making it easier for us).
San Antonio- Jackie Butler, Luis Scola

Like which of these bigs does Duhon get us? What does Duhon + the pick get us?

My guesses would be....

Chris Duhon straight up for Brendan Haywood.

Chris Duhon + #9 for #3 + Claxton (to get out of his awful contract).


----------



## ChadWick (Jun 26, 2006)

Mebarak said:


> Is he going to Portland as part of a Zach Randolph package?


I would like him to come to Portland and play for us

A trade similar to this:

Bulls Get:
Zach Randolph
Jarrett Jack
(Filler?)

Blazers Get:
Chris Duhon
Andres Nocioni? and/or Andrian Griffin(Filler?)


That's just a trade that came to mind...Not sure how it would work CAP wise, but an idea of wat positions and players could be traded


----------



## theanimal23 (Mar 2, 2005)

I'd dream of a scenario where we could get #11 from Atlanta for Duhon and 2008 1st rounder. We essentially move up 10 drafts spots (2007 vs 2008 positioning) in a deep draft. We can then use both 1st rounders to possibly move up to grab Yi/Horford, or we grab Hawes and take the BPA Wing player. Sure we are getting younger but we are adding serious talent.


----------



## ChadWick (Jun 26, 2006)

theanimal23 said:


> I'd dream of a scenario where we could get #11 from Atlanta for Duhon and 2008 1st rounder. We essentially move up 10 drafts spots (2007 vs 2008 positioning) in a deep draft. We can then use both 1st rounders to possibly move up to grab Yi/Horford, or we grab Hawes and take the BPA Wing player. Sure we are getting younger but we are adding serious talent.


True, but you would be getting alot younger


----------



## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Duhon is one of our 5 best players, and that's not by default (meaning there's not much competition for #5).

He was an absolute score of a 2nd round pick.

Move him, and we better get a similarly 5th best player (at least) back. And I don't think we're are going to be happy watching Thabo play G for 24+ minutes a game.


----------



## ChadWick (Jun 26, 2006)

yeah, like i said earlier, if you trade Duhon, get someone like with Duhon/Hinrich skills, and start them(depending on who it was that you acquired), have Hinrich come off the bench, and Thabo will be 3rd option at PG...


----------



## ChadWick (Jun 26, 2006)

Also, I think that Hinrich had more turnovers in the playoffs(against the Pistons) then he usually has...So I think they need someone like Hinrich, but a little better or something, just have Hinrich come off the bench and be PG..I don't think they should start Kirk


----------



## theanimal23 (Mar 2, 2005)

ChadWick said:


> True, but you would be getting alot younger


A lot of us Bulls fans harp on Duhon, but he is a good player. He is a good role player that is a great backup PG for any team and could start on the more inferior teams in this league. 

What he brings is defense, point guard leadership, and the ability to hit an open 3. He won't ever create his own offense although they said he was great at it prior to coming to Duke. 

We would get younger in this trade, but I think Duhon's future comes to two easy things:
1. His next contract. He will be a FA after next year.
2. Thabo Sefolosha's development.

If Thabo is ready to take the helm, then we can move Duhon. If not, do we keep Duhon but expect him to stay again? I don't see him staying with the Bulls. I think there will be some teams who will offer more money than we will. Thus, I see Duhon being moved. 

I do not see any current second round guys being better than Duhon. A guy I like is Taurean Green, but I do not think he will be the defender Duhon is. 

Assuming Duhon will not resign here, then yes, I think you might as well trade him now and try to get a Mid-1st round pick. My perference in using that pick would be to grab a guy like Tiago Splitter, or go Guard and get Crittenden or Nick Young. 

I think we could get 11 from Atlanta if we throw in our 2008 1st possibly. Maybe we ask them if they would give us #3 for #9, 2008 1st Rounder, and Duhon. Highly doubtful on their part. 

I don't think LAC give up their pick. I see them going Acie Law over Duhon. Would the Lakers give up the 19th pick? Possibly. I could see Philly giving up the 21st, and Phoenix giving up the 24th. But who do we grab this late in the draft? Thats the question. 

If I'm Pax, I'm trying my hardest to grab a late lotto pick for Du and '08. I just don't see us getting that much value back for him though.


----------



## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

Am I missing something? Whats with the overvaluing of Duhon. 

If we can swap Duhon for a big, and come out of the draft with a big, we'd be left with:

Guards:

Gordon
Thabo
Hinrich

Forwards:

Deng
Nocioni

Bigs:

Thomas
Joakim Noah
Ben Wallace
Brendan Haywood

Thats 9 players right there, just one away from the normal 10 man rotation. The 10th man in the rotation is a no brainer IMHO. Devin Brown.

Giving us

PG-Kirk Hinrich/Devin Brosn
SG-Ben Gordon/Thabo Sefolosha
SF-Luol Deng/Andres Nocioni
PF-Tyrus Thomas/Joakim Noah
C- Ben Wallace/Brendan Haywood


----------



## ChadWick (Jun 26, 2006)

Mebarak said:


> Giving us
> 
> PG-Kirk Hinrich/Devin Brosn
> SG-Ben Gordon/Thabo Sefolosha
> ...


That's not a bad lineup, but, Devin Brown?!

I don't like him, I thought he was a SG?

well, he is probably a SG/PG


----------



## T.Shock (Feb 11, 2003)

I'd love to see if we could get something done for Drew Gooden. Played with Hinrich at Kansas. Has good offensive skill and is rather strong. I'd love to see Gooden on the Bulls playing next to Wallace. Duhon probably doesn't come close though.


----------



## transplant (Jul 31, 2002)

DaBullz said:


> Duhon is one of our 5 best players, and that's not by default (meaning there's not much competition for #5).
> 
> He was an absolute score of a 2nd round pick.
> 
> Move him, and we better get a similarly 5th best player (at least) back. And I don't think we're are going to be happy watching Thabo play G for 24+ minutes a game.


Who's #6...just curious?


----------



## ChadWick (Jun 26, 2006)

T.Shock said:


> I'd love to see if we could get something done for Drew Gooden. Played with Hinrich at Kansas. Has good offensive skill and is rather strong. I'd love to see Gooden on the Bulls playing next to Wallace. Duhon probably doesn't come close though.


Well Here are some options for acquiring him:

*Number 1:*
*Bulls Get:*
Shannon Brown
Drew Gooden

*Cavs Get:*
Tyrus Thomas
Chris Duhon


Or

*Number 2:*
*Bulls Get:*
David Wesley(Expires in 2 yrs)
Drew Gooden

*Cavs Get:*
Loul Deng
Viktor Khryapa
Chris Duhon


*Number 3:*
*Bulls Get:*
Donyell Marshall
Damon Jones

*Cavs Get:*
Tyrus Thomas
Kirk Hinrich

*Why:*
Number 1:Drew Gooden becuase he is a good post player and would be great next to Big Ben. Played with Hinrich in College
Number 2:Get Wesley for expiring, and give up Loul for Gooden, that's the main players in that trade. Viktor Khryapa does nothing.
Number 3:Give up Tyrus Thomas for Shooter Donyell Marshall. And Shooter Damon Jones for Hinrich


----------



## jbulls (Aug 31, 2005)

DaBullz said:


> Duhon is one of our 5 best players, and that's not by default (meaning there's not much competition for #5).
> 
> He was an absolute score of a 2nd round pick.
> 
> Move him, and we better get a similarly 5th best player (at least) back. And I don't think we're are going to be happy watching Thabo play G for 24+ minutes a game.


Which one of the Gordon / Hinrich / Wallace / Noc / Deng group is Chris Duhon better than?


----------



## SALO (Jun 6, 2002)

DaBullz said:


> Duhon is one of our 5 best players, and that's not by default (meaning there's not much competition for #5).
> 
> He was an absolute score of a 2nd round pick.
> 
> Move him, and we better get a similarly 5th best player (at least) back. And I don't think we're are going to be happy watching Thabo play G for 24+ minutes a game.


Setting yourself up for more "Pax loses another trade" bashing down the road? Because I'm not sure where all this Duhon praise is coming from.

5 best players on the Bulls (regardless of contract situations)
Wallace
Nocioni
Deng
Gordon
Hinrich

And by next year, I fully expect Thabo to be better than Duhon. Tyrus already surpassed Duhon down the stretch of last season, while Thabo was closing the gap rapidly and will continue to do so with another offseason of improvement.


----------



## THEbigO (Apr 9, 2006)

chadwick....did you seriously just propose hinrich and tyrus for donyelle marshal and damon jones? that was a joke right?


----------



## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

The Cavaliers would probably trade Duhon straight up for Gooden,but I don't know why the Bulls would.He isn't going to make that big a difference.He's a good rebounder,but then you're paying Wallace a lot of cabbage for that.He's a decent scorer,but not anything special.I hate to say it,but he seems to be borderline retarded at times.I mean he makes three or four plays a game that really make you wonder how he could get into the University of Kansas.

Cleveland on the other hand would probably kill to get any sort of decent point guard.If Duhon could hit the trey a little more consistently he'd be incredible on that team.


----------



## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

T.Shock said:


> I'd love to see if we could get something done for Drew Gooden. Played with Hinrich at Kansas. Has good offensive skill and is rather strong. I'd love to see Gooden on the Bulls playing next to Wallace. Duhon probably doesn't come close though.


How about Emeka Okafor. He used to play with Ben Gordon at Uconn. They might look to trade him with his injuries. Just to put things in perspective, Ben Gordon has played 78 more regular season games than Okafor, almost an entire regular season, and 100 more when taking into account playoff games (22 more playoff games).

Bulls Trade:

Chris Duhon
Thabo Sefolosha
#9 pick
2008 Draft Pick

Bobcats Trade:

Emeka Okafor

This gives MJ more young talent to build the Bobcats around. Okafor might be injury prone, but he's still a pretty good center.

Okafor IS the guy that puts us over the top.

Now you attempt that first package, but in the end, I'm offering Tyrus straight up for Okafor, maybe throwing in the #9 pick as well. 

Try to reenact Elton Brand-gate.

PG-Kirk Hinrich
SG-Ben Gordon
SF-Luol Deng
PF-Ben Wallace
C- Emeka Okafor

and either Devin Brown/Andres Nocioni/Tyrus Thomas or Chris Duhon/Thabo Sefolsoha/Andres Nocioni/Chris Webber off the bench.

is a championship caliber team IMHO.


----------



## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

I'm probably dreaming here, but what about seeing if the Warriors would take Duhon for Patrick O'Bryant (I think it works cap wise and wouldn't need fillers).

Warriors have alot of salary to fill, so the expiring contract might be attractive. They also seem to regret making this pick from what I heard, and their team is abundant with bigger guards. Duhon would give them a real true PG to help all the shoot-first antics of everyone else.

Bulls would get a young defensive big who, I think, could become a pretty good backup with the proper tutoring (and I think GS is a terrible place for his development, and could ruin his career).

It's probably not equal value for GS, but they aren't using the guy anyway. I'm not sure they plan to either.


----------



## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

yodurk said:


> I'm probably dreaming here, but what about seeing if the Warriors would take Duhon for Patrick O'Bryant (I think it works cap wise and wouldn't need fillers).
> 
> Warriors have alot of salary to fill, so the expiring contract might be attractive. They also seem to regret making this pick from what I heard, and their team is abundant with bigger guards. Duhon would give them a real true PG to help all the shoot-first antics of everyone else.
> 
> ...


You're trading an NBA player for a D league player and then you say the Warriors would get ripped off?Is that correct?


----------



## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

transplant said:


> Who's #6...just curious?


You know, transplant, as I was quickly reading through your short post, I misread it and got an idea. My thought was "Milwaukee is #6" (in the draft this year). Wouldn't they be a good fit for Duhon? I can't seem to find a good draft day trade to get him there, but in priciple I wonder if they would agree to something like Duhon and the #9 for the #6.

I bet Milwaukee would trade us Dan Gadzuric for Duhon and Khryapa. At least then we'd have a real big on our roster, but he wouldn't solve our scoring problem. At least then we could draft the BPA.

Hinrich, Thabo
Gordon, Griffin
Deng, Nocioni?
Thomas, rookie?
Wallace, Gadzuric

Meh.


----------



## lougehrig (Mar 1, 2005)

McBulls said:


> Some team that needs a point guard is about to get very lucky. Duhon is a very good point guard -- better even than Hinrich.


Better than Hinrich? Really. Interesting. Maybe you should let Paxson, Skiles and the rest of the NBA know this. If that were really true, Duhon would have signed the long term deal, would be starting, would be on the all-defensive team and Hinrich would be traded instead.


----------



## laso (Jul 24, 2002)

ChadWick said:


> I would like him to come to Portland and play for us
> 
> A trade similar to this:
> 
> ...


I'd do this in a heartbeat.


----------



## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

Somebody on the draft forum suggested trading Chris Duhon and the #9 pick to Atlanta for the #3 pick, but I thought that was being too generous towards Chicago. Bulls fans thoughts?


----------



## DANNY (Aug 9, 2005)

how about luke walton for duhon

wth throw in brian cook in there, he might sell you a ticket or two


----------



## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

Would you swap Duhon, Griffin and #9 for Stro Swift and #4?


----------



## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

I was thinking a 3 team deal kinda like this....

Portland Trades Zach Randolph
Portland Receives Adrian Griffin, Mike Miller and #9

Memphis Trades Stromile Swift, Mike Miller and #4
Memphis Receives Zach Randolph and Chris Duhon

Chicago Trades Chris Duhon, Adrian Griffin and #9
Chicago Receives Stromile Swift and #4 pick (Horford/Wright)


----------



## theanimal23 (Mar 2, 2005)

dannyM said:


> how about luke walton for duhon
> 
> wth throw in brian cook in there, he might sell you a ticket or two


I think this deal has potential. I like Luke, but I think the Lakers will find him more valuable than Duhon. I see Luke as a nice SF to have on your team. He does a lot of things well.

It would depend what Chicago would want to do with Nocioni, but I would welcome a Walton addition. The thing is, he would need to play some PF to find minutes due to Luol Deng.

Regarding Stro and #4 for Duhon and #9. I do not think Memphis does it, but I definitely would. Honestly to move up to the #4 spot, I'd be willing to take Cardinal but I don't think the Bulls management would do that. 

Regarding #9 and Duhon for #3, I keep hoping we could get a deal done with this and I had it proposed with our 1st next year.

As a Bulls fan, I would do these deals, but I do not think your teams would approve of them.


----------



## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

Schilly said:


> I was thinking a 3 team deal kinda like this....
> 
> Portland Trades Zach Randolph
> Portland Receives Adrian Griffin, Mike Miller and #9
> ...



I would do this in a heartbeat... bulls are getting crazy value in this trade... It actually looks pretty good for Portland too... I think Memphis is gettin jipped though


----------



## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

Memphis
PG Duhon
SG Gay
SF Warick
PF Randolph
C Gasol

Looks decent...Memphis probably does need a lttle more, Maybe Shouldn't bee too far away to throw in a little something from Portland a couple 2nd rounders cash, furture 1st something like that.


----------



## step (Sep 19, 2005)

Aren't they still in the process of selling the Grizzles? If so they're not going to trade for any sizable contracts.


----------



## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

I don't see the Grizz having any great interest in Randolph...Not unless someone else is paying his contract


----------



## jbulls (Aug 31, 2005)

theanimal23 said:


> I think this deal has potential. I like Luke, but I think the Lakers will find him more valuable than Duhon. I see Luke as a nice SF to have on your team. He does a lot of things well.
> 
> It would depend what Chicago would want to do with Nocioni, but I would welcome a Walton addition. The thing is, he would need to play some PF to find minutes due to Luol Deng.
> 
> ...


Walton is an okay player, but faced with choice between him and Nocioni I take Noc every time. And we don't have to given up an asset to retain Noc. No thanks on that front. The Stromile Swift / number 4 trade is an absolute no-brainer for us to take. Yes, please.


----------



## theanimal23 (Mar 2, 2005)

I agree Noce is more valuable to us as he can play PF too. Thats the thing. Walton can't. 

I would love it if we can do that deal with Memphis. Even if it was Cardinal and not Stro, I'd still do it.


----------



## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

Stromile needs be hated by another teams fanbase.They got to be tired of hating him in Memphis and Houston.Sadly the Bulls could probably use a guy who only does one positive thing on the court.He doesn't dunk all that much though.


----------



## McBulls (Apr 28, 2005)

lougehrig said:


> Better than Hinrich? Really. Interesting. Maybe you should let Paxson, Skiles and the rest of the NBA know this. If that were really true, Duhon would have signed the long term deal, would be starting, would be on the all-defensive team and Hinrich would be traded instead.


I think Duhon is a better *point guard* than Hinrich. Hinrich is a better scorer and is more versatile defensively and offensively, but if you want someone to direct the team, guard opposing point guards, shoot the occasional outside shot, and drive the lane Duhon is your guy. The problem for the Bulls is that pairing Duhon and Gordon together is not wise -- they are just too short a backcourt. As long as the Bulls are featuring Gordon in the backcourt they really have no choice but to trade Duhon.

And yes, I think trading Hinrich might be a good idea to consider next year when hes not BYC if they decide to keep both Duhon and Gordon. As it is, my guess is that they will trade either Duhon or Gordon this summer in an effort to get a first class offensive big man; e.g. Bynum.


----------



## McBulls (Apr 28, 2005)

Schilly said:


> I was thinking a 3 team deal kinda like this....
> 
> Portland Trades Zach Randolph
> Portland Receives Adrian Griffin, Mike Miller and #9
> ...


Chicago and Portland certainly come out ahead on that one. I'm not sure Memphis would be so pleased to have Zach Randolph.


----------



## lougehrig (Mar 1, 2005)

McBulls said:


> I think Duhon is a better *point guard* than Hinrich. Hinrich is a better scorer and is more versatile defensively and offensively, but if you want someone to direct the team, guard opposing point guards, shoot the occasional outside shot, and drive the lane Duhon is your guy. The problem for the Bulls is that pairing Duhon and Gordon together is not wise -- they are just too short a backcourt. As long as the Bulls are featuring Gordon in the backcourt they really have no choice but to trade Duhon.
> 
> And yes, I think trading Hinrich might be a good idea to consider next year when hes not BYC if they decide to keep both Duhon and Gordon. As it is, my guess is that they will trade either Duhon or Gordon this summer in an effort to get a first class offensive big man; e.g. Bynum.


I understand the concept of POINT GUARD. Duhon is an average one who forces too many passes, overdribbles and is streakier than hell. He is also too short to defend alot of guards. Hinrich is far superior to Duhon in all ways. Its too easy to even discuss this, so I won't.

The less Duhon plays, the better we play. Duhon is an average point guard. Had we had Derek Fisher or somebody like that as our backup PG, we would be a better team. Duhon has been a good player for us, but for us to be better he needs to go. His playing time is only going to get less and less going forward. Hinrich and Gordon will get better. Duhon peaked 2 years ago.


----------



## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

Diable said:


> You're trading an NBA player for a D league player and then you say the Warriors would get ripped off?Is that correct?


Well yeah...O'Bryant is a 7 footer, lottery pick, and only 20 years old. If he stayed at Bradley, he'd be entering his senior year. D-league or not, he has undeniable physical ability. 

For 1 season of Chris Duhon, I would think it's a no-brainer, low-risk gamble on our end.


----------



## SALO (Jun 6, 2002)

dannyM said:


> how about luke walton for duhon
> 
> wth throw in brian cook in there, he might sell you a ticket or two


That would be good for the Bulls. 

Cook replaces Malik Allen's outside shooting, except Cook has range that extends to the three point line. 

Walton is added insurance in case we trade Noce or Viktor.


----------



## McBulls (Apr 28, 2005)

lougehrig said:


> I understand the concept of POINT GUARD. Duhon is an average one who forces too many passes, overdribbles and is streakier than hell. He is also too short to defend alot of guards. Hinrich is far superior to Duhon in all ways. Its too easy to even discuss this, so I won't.
> 
> The less Duhon plays, the better we play. Duhon is an average point guard. Had we had Derek Fisher or somebody like that as our backup PG, we would be a better team. Duhon has been a good player for us, but for us to be better he needs to go. His playing time is only going to get less and less going forward. Hinrich and Gordon will get better. Duhon peaked 2 years ago.


Well, I guess one of us will regret Duhon's departure more than the other. I just hope he doesn't go to a rival like Cleveland, for whom he would be the missing piece.


----------



## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

transplant said:


> Who's #6...just curious?


Actually, he is #6, I guess.

The drop off from him to the next guy is like... Malik? bleh.


----------



## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

DaBullz said:


> Actually, he is #6, I guess.
> 
> The drop off from him to the next guy is like... Malik? bleh.



Tyrus?


----------



## Mr. T (Jan 29, 2004)

McBulls said:


> Well, I guess one of us will regret Duhon's departure more than the other. I just hope he doesn't go to a rival like Cleveland, for whom he would be the missing piece.


Is there really a front office with the cahones to proclaim to their fan base at a Chris Duhon press conference that they've just acquired "the missing piece"?

And btw, doesn't anybody think Duhon actually hurt his value a good bit this year? He finally fell out of favor in Skiles rotations, missed meetings, got suspended, etc.


----------



## Nu_Omega (Nov 27, 2006)

If Duhon is to be shipped, that's only because we need a bigger backcourt and he happens to be the most dispensible among Kirk,Gordon and Thabo. Duhon is not a bad PG, just that he's a victim of circumstances.


----------



## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

Duhon is a great candidate to be traded because you have an awful lot of teams that would really like to acquire him.A decent point guard is worth an awful lot at this moment.I would not care to take wagers on what Billy Knight would do,but he should be willing to give up the 11th pick for Duhon and maybe something nominal like a second round pick or even Sweetney who'd have a little value to him.

Look at the Hawks' althernatives.They absolutely have to get a point guard.If they want they can take Conley Jr at 3,which would be a huge reach in the opinion of many.However he's not likely to be there at 11 since someone will take him because they need him or because they can trade him to another team that is desperate for a point.At 11 you have guys like Acie Law who is more of a shooting guard in a point guard's body and Javaris Crittendon who at best will not be ready to the play the point in the NBA for several years.I would trade the 11th pick for Duhon straight up if I had to.It would be a lot better than any other choice I would have.


----------



## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

jnrjr79 said:


> Tyrus?


He's not a better basketball player. He is more valuable to the team because they pinned a #2 pick on him.


----------



## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

DaBullz said:


> He's not a better basketball player. He is more valuable to the team because they pinned a #2 pick on him.


All the more reason to bring Marcus Fizer back, since we pinned a #4 pick on him.


----------



## The Truth (Jul 22, 2002)

Diable said:


> I hate to say it,but he seems to be borderline retarded at times.


You mean the guy who soon after being drafted by the Grizzlies expressed his surprise that Elvis was from Memphis after thinking all along that he was from Tennessee.

I don't think there's anything "borderline" about it. :biggrin:


----------



## jbulls (Aug 31, 2005)

DaBullz said:


> He's not a better basketball player. He is more valuable to the team because they pinned a #2 pick on him.


Tyrus Thomas is a better player than Malik Allen.


----------



## T-Time (Mar 3, 2007)

jbulls said:


> Tyrus Thomas is a better player than Malik Allen.


Whoever denies that is pretty dah gahn stupid. When Malik doesn't hit his 10-15 foot range jump shot, there isn't a whole lot else Malik can do. Tyrus on the other hand can get to the foul line, rebound, and provide energy for the team; Malik can't do any of that.


----------



## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

DaBullz said:


> He's not a better basketball player. He is more valuable to the team because they pinned a #2 pick on him.



Oh, I know what you are saying. However, you said after Duhon, the dropoff is to Malik. I don't think it's to Malik. It's to Tyrus. Then to whoever.


----------



## ChadWick (Jun 26, 2006)

Brian Cook would be good for the Bulls IMO..


Trade Duhon and filler

for Cook and filler (if needed)


----------



## Showtyme (Jun 24, 2002)

It appears Pax is looking for a low 1st round pick. This is decent value for Duhon.

But perhaps he's a piece of a bigger trade, like a move to send Nocioni, Duhon and the #9 pick for Marion, Banks (eat the contract) and the #24 pick.

With #24, let's say we draft Marcus Williams. 

Hinrich-Gordon-Deng-Marion-Wallace

Stellar starting 5.

Thabo, Tyrus, Williams, Banks off the bench. Still lacking any size depth, but Marion and Wallace are 35+ mpg guys. But we'd still be short one big man to play taller defense. I'd be happy getting Kurt Thomas from the Suns too, but I doubt it could happen unless we put in another serious piece.


----------



## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

DaBullz said:


> He's not a better basketball player. He is more valuable to the team because they pinned a #2 pick on him.


It would seem Skiles disagrees with you:

Regular Season:

Thomas - 72 games played
Allen - 60 games played

Thomas - 4 starts
Allen - 1 start

Thomas - 13.4 mpg
Allen - 10.6 mpg

But some of that could be chalked up to developmental entitlement minutes. So lets consider the post-season.

Playoffs:

Thomas - 10 games played
Allen - 5 games played

Thomas - 12.2 mpg (16.7 mpg against Detroit)
Allen - 6.8 mpg


----------



## dougthonus (Jul 18, 2006)

I'm going to have to disagree with the Chris Duhon is good bandwagon here.

Not only is he not our 5th best player (Hinrich, Gordon, Deng, Wallace, and Nocioni are clearly all better by a *significant* margin).

He's also not clearly the 6th best player going into this year, Thabo, Tyrus, and whomever we get at #9 may be better players than Duhon this year coming up. 

Duhon absolutely murders the offense when he is in the game. He doesn't create for anyone because he takes no risks with the ball. He will often pass up wide open shots which causes the opposing team to double off him without fear constantly. He's the anti-Gordon in that not only does his personal offense suck, he makes the offense that much harder for everyone else in the game while he's there. He is an above average defensive guard, and he doesn't turn the ball over. Those strengths make him a viable NBA niche player and an average backup caliber PG.

One trade that might make sense for us is Duhon + 2nd our 2 2nd rounders for Marcus Banks + #25 + #29. Phoenix probably isn't too thrilled about picks 25 and 29 (they sold a higher pick in the draft for less cash savings last year) and would probably like having 2nd rounders to use on non guaranteed contracts. They get a player who can help them some in certain situations in Duhon, get out of Banks contract, and don't have to guarantee salary to 2 really late 1sts. 

The Bulls lose Duhon which will force Skiles to develop Thabo (which will make the team better by the end of this year) and they get 2 late 1sts which they can possibly use to move up in the draft or maybe trade both to move up to the high teens and grab a guy like Splitter.


----------



## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Ron Cey said:


> It would seem Skiles disagrees with you:
> 
> Regular Season:
> 
> ...


Duhon 24 minutes/game/Playoffs 19. 30 starts, started over Gordon in much of the past 3 seasons.

Regular season 7.2 PPG, 40.5% FG, 4APG, .9 SPG
Compare, say, to Hinrich's previous season:
15 PPG, 41% FG, 6.4APG, 1.2SPG (in >1.5x the minutes)


----------



## ViciousFlogging (Sep 3, 2003)

I thought Cey was talking about Allen and TT?


----------



## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

ViciousFlogging said:


> I thought Cey was talking about Allen and TT?


I thought Cey was using minutes played and starts to judge how Skiles values the player(s). The dropoff to either Malik or Thomas is steep, and the difference between the two (allen, thomas) is negligable.


----------



## Showtyme (Jun 24, 2002)

Are we seriously still talking about who's NEXT important after Duhon? Come on. In any event, Duhon is virtually our 6th man, and he would be on most teams, if not a spot starter. I agree that if we don't get at least that back in value, we'll be losing out.

But there's always contract issues; one year of Duhon (a 5th or 6th man) vs. 3 years of a decent bench rotation player, more like a 7th or 8th man. Which would I take? Value becomes different in that view.

Or what about draft picks, with which Paxson has done significantly above average? We might even do better than a 5th/6th man. Trading one year of a sure thing for a risk potential 4 years of low-cost excellence. If we stumble into Tiago Splitter at the 22nd pick, I'd trade Duhon for him in a second. I think Splitter's an extremely serviceable big and a steal at that pick; he's easily a starter on a lot of teams and now that he's gotten a lot more experience, I think he's going to be a valuable NBA player.

Trades are always fluid; the assets are rarely such a sure thing. Even if we look at stats and minutes and PER and efficiency ratings, there's still a host of intangible factors that can greatly affect the capital in a trade. Duhon might stink it up completely in a town like L.A., where a player like a healthy Chris Mihm or Johan Petro might be something of a very serious big man in the Eastern Conference.


----------



## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

DaBullz said:


> I thought Cey was using minutes played and starts to judge how Skiles values the player(s). The dropoff to either Malik or Thomas is steep, and the difference between the two (allen, thomas) is negligable.



Your post a while back was interpreted to mean that you thought Malik was a better player than Thomas. That's what people have been addressing.


----------



## ViciousFlogging (Sep 3, 2003)

DaBullz said:


> I thought Cey was using minutes played and starts to judge how Skiles values the player(s).


The only year that Duhon started or played more minutes than Gordon was in their rookie years. Skiles has thought Gordon the better player for at least 2 years now, and I think we all agree with him. I think most of us agree that Thomas is, or will shortly be, better than Malik as well.



> The dropoff to either Malik or Thomas is steep, and the difference between the two (allen, thomas) is negligable.


Maybe, but I don't think I'm alone in seeing that Thomas got better towards the end of the season, and saw more minutes because of it. I don't think the difference was negligible once we hit March or so.


----------



## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

DaBullz said:


> Duhon 24 minutes/game/Playoffs 19. 30 starts, started over Gordon in much of the past 3 seasons.
> 
> Regular season 7.2 PPG, 40.5% FG, 4APG, .9 SPG
> Compare, say, to Hinrich's previous season:
> 15 PPG, 41% FG, 6.4APG, 1.2SPG (in >1.5x the minutes)


Um . . . . what?


----------



## rosenthall (Aug 1, 2002)

Mr. T said:


> Is there really a front office with the cahones to proclaim to their fan base at a Chris Duhon press conference that they've just acquired "the missing piece"?
> 
> And btw, doesn't anybody think Duhon actually hurt his value a good bit this year? He finally fell out of favor in Skiles rotations, missed meetings, got suspended, etc.


I think Chris Duhon would be a bad fit on the Cavs. Lebron initiates the ball all the time, and he's a very unselfish distributor. The Cavs would be much better served having a PG who is offensively aggressive and a great shooter. Ben Gordon would be sick on the Cavs. Just look at what happened with Daniel Gibson. 

Besides from playing good defense, he doesn't provide much of the Cavs need, and his strengths are diminished when playing next to Lebron, since he wouldn't get to use them very often.

Otherwise, I'd be interested to see if we could turn Duhon into a mid-1st round pick this draft. Getting one of Smith/Splitter, in addition to our #9 pick, and perhaps a big man MLE signing, would be great, IMO. If Thabo develops, our size issues would be solved. I would love to add three tall guys who could walk and chew gum at the same time to this team. And I think that, in the absence of an uber-big guy, filling up your frontcourt with a variety of able, competent role players with a lot of size is the best way to go.

Big Ben, Tyrus, #9 pick, MLE signing, and _maybe_ an additional big from this draft would leave us looking pretty good. Our frontcourt wouldn't be world beaters, but I think it would replicate what the Cavs are doing this year. And there are just some benefits that come from being tall. 

Looking at the possibilities, 

Duhon and filler for the 11 would be ideal, but I just can't justify another team giving that up for Chris. Who knows, though. It'd be a good place to start.

After that, I'd give the Clippers a try. They're cheap, and with Shaun Livingston out indefinitely, maybe we could trade Duhon for the pick, and take back another salary.

Detroit would be a good place to look as well. Lindsay Hunter is getting long in the tooth, and they seemed to suffer from not having a good backup to Chauncey Billups all year long. I think Detroit would seriously think about some offer of Duhon + Khryapa for the pick and Nazr Mohammed. By the end of the year, he was completely out of the teams plans, and I would think at this point he's considered dead weight, and if getting rid of him would make it easier to resign Chauncey Billups, I think the Pistons would be tempted to do it. 

Perhaps a pre-arranged draft day trade, where they pick Smith or Splitter for us, and then trade the pick and Nazr for Duhon and Khryapa. I haven't checked the salaries, but I would think they'd come pretty close. I like this idea, since I don't think Nazr would be as useless here as he was there. I could be wrong, though. 

After that, Duhon for the #19 would seem like the next best choice. Phil hates rookies, and since they're firmly in "win now" mode, I think they'd consider it, since they need a consistent point guard. The only thing I think that would give them hesitation is the fact that Duhon really isn't a triangle guard.


----------



## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

Personally, I think on the *right team* Duhon could be a significant player. Lakers, Cavs and Hawks are the three that always come right to mind. Boobie aside, I suspect the Cavs would like to have Duhon guarding Parker right now. 

And I think he'd be absolutely ideal for Atlanta.

That said, on most teams in the NBA he'd be what he is for Chicago - the backup point guard. We aren't going to get a top half first round pick for him. It just won't happen.


----------



## McBulls (Apr 28, 2005)

rosenthall said:


> I think Chris Duhon would be a bad fit on the Cavs. Lebron initiates the ball all the time, and he's a very unselfish distributor. The Cavs would be much better served having a PG who is offensively aggressive and a great shooter. Ben Gordon would be sick on the Cavs. Just look at what happened with Daniel Gibson.
> 
> Besides from playing good defense, he doesn't provide much of the Cavs need, and his strengths are diminished when playing next to Lebron, since he wouldn't get to use them very often.
> 
> ...


I'm not sanguine about having two frontline rookies on the squad who need "training" minutes next year. Might as well write the year off if your're willing to watch them swallow up 20 min per game making inevitable mistakes in coverage, stupid fouls, and missed assignments.

Giving up a quality backup point guard for the likely opportunity of watching Smith or whoever sit in street clothes most of the year is not a recipe for success next year. I'd much rather a second round pick fill that role. 

The only exception I would make is Splitter. The narrow-minded greed and impatience of most NBA teams probably is making this solid center prospect fall out of the top half of the draft when he probably should be taken in the top 10. Splitter would have a shorter learning curve than most college students, since he has been playing pro ball at a high level for several years already.

So I would trade Duhon for the chance to draft Splitter. But that's it.


----------



## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

I think the only way Duhon nets us a 1st round pick is in combination with legitimate salary cap relief.


----------



## step (Sep 19, 2005)

> I think the only way Duhon nets us a 1st round pick is in combination with legitimate salary cap relief.


Exactly, while Duhon is valuable the team must be desperate financially to do such a move.


----------



## SausageKingofChicago (Feb 14, 2005)

He's Bimbo Coles 

I'd do him and the expiring contract of Veektor and give away one of our 2nd rounders for Banks and both of Phoenix's 24 and 29

I'd take Splitter and Visser with both first rounders and Tauren Green with our remaining 2nd rounder 

Take one of Spencer Hawes or Jason Smith at #9

Add Joe Smith for Malik Allen , resign Noc and call it a summer 

*

Wallace 
Joe Smith
Deng
Gordon
Hinrich

bench

Splitter
Thomas
Nocioni
Sefolosha
Green

Projects and Vets 

Visser
Hawes
Griffin
Banks

*

We can still get vet help in free agency and stack the deck with a proven Euro big like Splitter and a 4 year fundamentally correct big in Visser while still nurturing the upside of Hawes and Tyrus Thomas 

Banks is actually a very good guard defender and Green replaces what Duhon brings

We can have our cake and eat it too 

This is NOT the draft to be trading our #9 for Zach freaking Randolph or any other half way house big ( which is all we are going to get for the #9 pick - damaged goods )


----------



## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

SausageKingofChicago said:


> I'd do him and the expiring contract of Veektor and give away one of our 2nd rounders for Banks and both of Phoenix's 24 and 29
> 
> I'd take Splitter and Visser with both first rounders and Tauren Green with our remaining 2nd rounder
> 
> ...



DAMN!

Get 'er done!

Not completely sure Visser will truly pan out, even as an acknowledged "project"

but

DAMN!

Get 'er done!

A great example of win now AND win later thinking.

I like the jut of your cib, young man.


----------



## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

Abe, my friend, I've said it before and I'll say it again.

Even though I now live in mucky, yucky, humid Florida, if you ever are travelling to Chicago, I will do everything in my power to buy you lunch at Chez Paul, of Ferris Bueller and Blues Brothers fame.










And that is the honest truth.


----------



## T.Shock (Feb 11, 2003)

I'm confused as to why we want to add four more rookies to an already young team. I mean you always want to stockpile talent, but Duhon needs to go in a deal for a legit veteran player at either the 2 or 4. Otherwise, it's shuffling the deck.


----------



## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

T.Shock said:


> I'm confused as to why we want to add four more rookies to an already young team. I mean you always want to stockpile talent, but Duhon needs to go in a deal for a legit veteran player at either the 2 or 4. Otherwise, it's shuffling the deck.


How about Othella Harrington.He plays the four and he's a real veteran...We may have to sign him to a contract,but we can get this worked out quick.


----------



## laso (Jul 24, 2002)

T.Shock said:


> I'm confused as to why we want to add four more rookies to an already young team. I mean you always want to stockpile talent, but Duhon needs to go in a deal for a legit veteran player at either the 2 or 4. Otherwise, it's shuffling the deck.


I would tend to agree with your statement in general. However, the draft is deep this year if we get picks that could get us both Hawes and Splitter or Yi and Smith, well, you may have to do it. And if you give up Duhon to get this second big guy, you nay want to take a shot at another PG in the second round.

By the way, I would also love an option where we get Critteton and Smith in the draft.

Hinrich / Crittenton
Gordon/Thabo
Luol/Noce/Khryapa
Thomas/ PJ Brown
Wallace / Smith

Nice looking team!


----------



## kulaz3000 (May 3, 2006)

laso said:


> I would tend to agree with your statement in general. However, the draft is deep this year if we get picks that could get us both Hawes and Splitter or Yi and Smith, well, you may have to do it. And if you give up Duhon to get this second big guy, you nay want to take a shot at another PG in the second round.
> 
> By the way, I would also love an option where we get Critteton and Smith in the draft.
> 
> ...


You do realise that the more rookies we have the further we become set back as a team. Rookies always take longer to adjust to a system that is already in place, they will take longer to establish themselves with the other core players, plus big men take much longer to develop over small players. I just don't see the benefit of us continuously building up on young players when we are already young as we are. If we were a older team passing their peaks of course we'd need younger blood for the future, but we're a team in much need of stability and experience, and becoming younger won't help that one bit regardless of whether the draft is deep or not.


----------



## garnett (May 13, 2003)

SausageKingofChicago said:


> He's Bimbo Coles
> 
> I'd do him and the expiring contract of Veektor and give away one of our 2nd rounders for Banks and both of Phoenix's 24 and 29
> 
> ...


That's a good post.


----------



## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

If we're stockpiling young bigs, that makes a LOT of sense. As already stated, they take longer to develop. Well, guess what? We have an old over-the-hill center that will need replaced very soon, and no depth at the 4 or 5, either one. So, lets say we just drafted Spencer Hawes, and let the roster alone. That'd leave us with this as a lineup (worth mentioning players only):

Hinrich/Duchump (sort of worth mentioning, but only because Skiles likes plays him lol)
Gordon/Sefolosha
Deng/Nocioni
Thomas
Wallace/Hawes

That does nothing to really help our team out. The only advancement we'd make would be due to Thomas and Sefolosha developing, and maybe some more improvement out of Hinrich, Gordon and Deng. On the other hand, if we made some moves, like SausageKing proposed, or my scenario that I'll get into here, then we'd have good young players to develop, and they just might be difference makers for us THIS season off the bench.

My scenario would be to draft Hawes at #9 (depth at center, and our future center...not to mention some solid post scoring as a rookie I think). Trade Noc and cash for a pick between 10-15, and take Jason Smith (depth at center and power forward, and a developmental pick..boom or bust, but if we already have Tyrus and Spencer, that's a risk that we could afford to take). Trade Duchump and '08 1st for a pick around 10-15 or w/e Nick Young goes, and draft him. That'd give us a bigger SG, that has size and shooting. Right now, we have Gordon who has shooting and no size or D, and Thabo who has size and D, but no shooting. Those 2 are 1-dimensional, so they're better off as role players, not starters. Young could be the real deal. Then move up with both 2nds and cash for Marcus Williams. The last one could be Reyshawn Terry (SF) or a PG like Law, Crittenden, or Jordan. I prefer Marcus Williams because he's 6'7" and can play PG and SG...he'd be best value in the draft if he falls clear to the 2nd as some think he will (unless of course a top 5 guy falls way down lol). 

So if we just gave up Duchump, Nocolibre, '08 1st, and cash and landed Marcus Williams, Jason Smith, and Nick Young, that'd greatly improve our team, much more than just adding a player at #9. Our lineup would then have vets at all 5 starting positions (aside from 2nd year Thomas at PF) and good, young, BIG ATHLETIC players as backups at each position:

Kirk Hinrich/Marcus Williams---Marcus could backup 1-3, and help guard bigger SGs
Ben Gordon/Nick Young---hopefully in a year or 2, Young would start, Gordon 6th MOY
Luol Deng/Thabo Sefolosha---Thabo to me looks like a point forward but could backup 1-3
Tyrus Thomas/Jason Smith---Jason Smith could provide a big body in case of foul trouble
Ben Wallace/Spencer Hawes---Hawes would add scoring we need in the post, and would be the starter ASAP

That's my ideal, best case scenario offseason, barring a big trade for Amare that I cooked up in Sloth's thread...3-way with the Hawks lol. I'd be willing to throw in other future picks and players like the Khryapper, Sweet-tooth, Griff, Allen, etc. I have no use for older, sucky players who are just dreadful to watch and never leave the bench unless absolutely necessary.


----------



## Swan (Jun 27, 2005)

One scenario is to move Duhon to Indiana with VK to get Jeff Foster. It's a tier two move (1st tier being to use duhon as one piece in a larger deal to get a more impactful player) but I think Foster would be great as a Wallace insurance policy and defensive big guy.


----------



## dougthonus (Jul 18, 2006)

> I'd do him and the expiring contract of Veektor and give away one of our 2nd rounders for Banks and both of Phoenix's 24 and 29
> 
> I'd take Splitter and Visser with both first rounders and Tauren Green with our remaining 2nd rounder
> 
> ...


There's now way we can get Taureen Green with a late 2nd round pick. It's also extraordinarily unlikely that Splitter is sitting there at #24.


----------



## McBulls (Apr 28, 2005)

If Duhon is going to be traded, he will be part of a deal for a veteran big man. 
Brendan Haywood is on the trading block and could be gotten for Duhon and Khryapa.

But I'd rather they trade Gordon for Bynum.


----------

