# Qrich for Kurt Thomas? (Merged)



## HKF

*No clue what Zeke is doing...*

but after this trade, this how the Knicks are currently constructed. Hopefully, Zeke can move Penny and Tim Thomas for something good, draft 3 good players (which is possible in this draft) and then use the MLE and LLE wisely.

This team needs size, like Marion Barry needed some crack... Badly. 

The Knick depth chart after this trade:

PG - Stephon Marbury (6'3)/Jamal Crawford (6'5)
SG - Quentin Richardson (6'6)/Penny Hardaway(6'7) (expiring), Allen Houston (6'6)
SF - Tim Thomas (6'10) (expiring)/Trevor Ariza (6'8)
PF - Michael Sweetney (6'8)/Maurice Taylor (6'8)/Jerome Williams (6'7)
C - Malik Rose (6'7)

No. 8 pick, No. 30 pick, No. 54 pick, MLE, LLE


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## HKF

*Re: No clue what Zeke is doing...*



HKF said:


> but after this trade, this how the Knicks are currently constructed. Hopefully, Zeke can move Penny and Tim Thomas for something good, draft 3 good players (which is possible in this draft) and then use the MLE and LLE wisely.
> 
> This team needs size, like Marion Barry needed some crack... Badly.
> 
> The Knick depth chart after this trade:
> 
> PG - Stephon Marbury (6'3)/Jamal Crawford (6'5)
> SG - Quentin Richardson (6'6)/Penny Hardaway(6'7) (expiring), Allen Houston (6'6)
> SF - Tim Thomas (6'10) (expiring)/Trevor Ariza (6'8)
> PF - Michael Sweetney (6'8)/Maurice Taylor (6'8)/Jerome Williams (6'7)
> C - Malik Rose (6'7)
> 
> No. 8 pick, No. 30 pick, No. 54 pick, MLE, LLE



Judging from all this, this is how I'd like to see the draft and the MLE and LLE used (didn't even look at trades or waiving Houston yet).

No. 8 pick = Andrew Bynum, 7'0 C HS (he's a year away, but man, put him in the D-League for a year, but you can't pass up his upside).
No. 30 pick = Salim Stoudamire, 6'2 PG/SG Arizona (lights out for long range)
No. 54 pick = Amir Johnson, 6'11 PF HS (another HS kid, but hell, he's big and athletic and is basically lacking the meat on his bones. However, man, that NBDL was created for a reason and let him go down there and learn for a little while and in 2006, bring both of these boys up.

In the meantime, use the MLE on Kwame Brown (take a chance, might as well, I mean you brought Crawford and Q-Rich here). LLE (a legit backup for Starbury please. Hell I'd take Darrell Armstrong for a year. 

Try to trade Penny and Tim for Magloire or Ratliff. Either one. Just get a center in here. That way, you can bring Bynum and Johnson along slowly, but at least you got a vet center up in here. Or maybe get cheapo sterling to bite on a Wilcox and filler for Penny trade to gain an expiring contract. 

Isiah, you better fix this stuff. Take those HS bigs Isiah. This team needs them.


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## Weasel

*Re: No clue what Zeke is doing...*

Interesting rumor that is going on about Q Rich being traded for Kurt Thomas and a 1st. Odd choice though if it goes through the Knicks will have 3 SG's: Marbury, Richardson, and Crawford. Either Marbury or Crawford must be on the trading block.


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## Tragedy

*Re: No clue what Zeke is doing...*

I hope isiah knows what he's doing, because I don't really like the acquisition of Richardson as it stands right now.


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## AussieWarriorFan!

*Re: No clue what Zeke is doing...*

Shouldn't you guys be trying to clean up the cap a bit, not keep messing it up?


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## HKF

*Re: No clue what Zeke is doing...*



AussieWarriorFan! said:


> Shouldn't you guys be trying to clean up the cap a bit, not keep messing it up?


No cap room for 3 years my man. None. Regardless of if Isiah does nothing.


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## BrettNYK

*Re: No clue what Zeke is doing...*



Weasel said:


> Interesting rumor that is going on about Q Rich being traded for Kurt Thomas and a 1st. Odd choice though if it goes through the Knicks will have 3 SG's: Marbury, Richardson, and Crawford. Either Marbury or Crawford must be on the trading block.


I really hope that the first rounder isn't part of the deal. We already owe them a first rounder. I _really_ hope they got that part wrong.


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## Weasel

*Re: No clue what Zeke is doing...*



BrettNYK said:


> I really hope that the first rounder isn't part of the deal. We already owe them a first rounder. I _really_ hope they got that part wrong.


Do you wish it is not a first rounder period or that is not this years first rounder? Because if its the second question it was mentioned that the pick is suppose to be a future one.


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## BrettNYK

*Re: No clue what Zeke is doing...*



Weasel said:


> Do you wish it is not a first rounder period or that is not this years first rounder? Because if its the second question it was mentioned that the pick is suppose to be a future one.


I hope it's not a first rounder period. Maybe we can hope they got that part wrong. They have in the past.

EDIT: Look at all the people at Real GM celebrating. :no:

http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=384321

I wonder what they're smoking-I gotta get me some. :biggrin:


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## Kunlun

*Re: No clue what Zeke is doing...*

I hope New York enjoys Stephon Marbury, Jamal Crawford and Quentin Richardson in the same backcourt.


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## bullet

*Re: No clue what Zeke is doing...*

I think Zeke will use 8th and 30th on Big men.

also I think Zeke will try and trade one of his big expirers (Penny,TT) for an unwanted big man with a long contract (Boozer , Dampier , Foyle...) and if needed add Ariza or Jamal or a Pick...


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## Rhubarb

*Re: No clue what Zeke is doing...*



HKF said:


> Try to trade Penny and Tim for Magloire


Interested to hear your reasoning behind why Nawlins would do that.


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## AussieWarriorFan!

*Re: No clue what Zeke is doing...*

Trade Idea: Dampier and Wahad for Hardaway

Interested in people's opinions, seems a bit crackpipish for me but who knows!


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## NYKBaller

*Qrich for Kurt Thomas?*

http://www.realgm.com/src_fromthera...chardson_dealt_to_the_knicks_for_kurt_thomas/


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## MentalPowerHouse

*Re: Qrich for Kurt Thomas?*

If its true I think its bad for the Knicks, do they have anyone on the team that plays defence? The frontcourt looks brutal.


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## The True Essence

*Re: Qrich for Kurt Thomas?*

i think its obvious that if this deal is true, Allan Houston is officially done, and we will be drafting frye or Bynum at 8.

Kurt is a great post defender and all, but hes getting up there in age, and we want sweetney to fill his PF spot. and with Rose and Jerome coming off the bench, our frontcourt shouldnt be terrible unless our draft pick turns into rafael araujo


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## The True Essence

*Re: No clue what Zeke is doing...*

new orleans traded baron davis for dale davis. thats why they would take a deal similar to that..

not that i support it. and please god, dont trade for dampier, hes under contract until his hairs go grey


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## Da Grinch

*Re: No clue what Zeke is doing...*

The deal makes alot of sense in an arkward kind of way.

the knicks need a true 2 guard which JC is not.

the knicks need another shooter for marbury's drive and kick style.

the knicks need someone on their perimeter to rebound(you would usually like it to be your small forward ....but timmy hasn't been quite up to it.) the knicks were outrebounded as a team 41.7 to 41.0 with any perimeter help on the boards, the knicks would actually be a good rebounding team despite their size woes.

the knicks need a center and at least 1 less power forward...and this clears a power forward.(out of the MLE and 2 1st rounders they will get at a center)

it would be nice if Q could play some defense....but zeke got decent value for kurt.


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## truth

*Re: No clue what Zeke is doing...*



HKF said:


> No cap room for 3 years my man. None. Regardless of if Isiah does nothing.


Its a great trade...There is going to be a new clause in the CBA that allows you to waive one player and get cap relief for that amount..H2O is gone



> The Knicks are expected to take advantage of the one-time only offer and would save approximately $40 million if they waive Houston, the oft-injured shooting guard team president Isiah Thomas has been trying to remove from the roster since last year


.


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## Knicksfan3

*Re: Qrich for Kurt Thomas?*

Im a big Q-Rich fan but he is going to have a hard time cracking the starting lineup. At best they can start him at SF over Tim Thomas or else he becomes the backup SG and SF. I have been upset at the fact that the Knicks have been trying to trade Kurt for so long but now that I see whats going on I realize they have to get Sweetney into the lineup cause we are just wasting any talent he has right now. Overall this trade is ok and Q Rich will give us more 3's, but we do lose some inside presence.


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## Da Grinch

*Re: No clue what Zeke is doing...*

yea truth i saw the article too 

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/321697p-274983c.html

thats going to help the knicks big time on 2 different fronts ....1 obviously the money saved ...and you have to believe it frees zeke even more to make deals especially with the trade allowance moved from 15 to 25 %.


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## truth

*Re: Qrich for Kurt Thomas?*



Knicksfan3 said:


> Im a big Q-Rich fan but he is going to have a hard time cracking the starting lineup. At best they can start him at SF over Tim Thomas or else he becomes the backup SG and SF. I have been upset at the fact that the Knicks have been trying to trade Kurt for so long but now that I see whats going on I realize they have to get Sweetney into the lineup cause we are just wasting any talent he has right now. Overall this trade is ok and Q Rich will give us more 3's, but we do lose some inside presence.


We were desparate for a shooter and a big man.This gets us the shooter/big 2 that we needed and allows us to draft big...And you are right..Sweetney has to play...or get traded...I hope he makes the most of this opportunity and comes into camp in great physical condition....

The only questions are do we go with Frye or Bynum and what can we get for Pennys expiring contract


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## Knicksfan3

*Re: No clue what Zeke is doing...*

Getting rid of Houston will help clear space at the guard position if Q Rich comes to town, so it is obviously a great move. I never was an Allan Houston fan and I cant say that I would miss him if they do drop him.


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## truth

*Re: No clue what Zeke is doing...*



Knicksfan3 said:


> Getting rid of Houston will help clear space at the guard position if Q Rich comes to town, so it is obviously a great move. I never was an Allan Houston fan and I cant say that I would miss him if they do drop him.


Actually,all its gonna save is 40 million in luxury tax if i am not mistaken..I dont think it gives cap relief...

Q has the size and strength to be a lock down defender if he put his mind to it.He is 6'6" 230....Hes not going to be getting posted up,and he grabs 6 boards per game..

I love this trade....


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## Damian Necronamous

*Re: Qrich for Kurt Thomas?*

Is Tim Thomas an expiring contract this season too?

Last I heard, Houston was well on his way to a comeback.

Jamal Crawford
Quentin Richardson
Allan Houston
Tim Thomas
Trevor Ariza
Penny Hardaway

That's just way too many swingmen. All Thomas has done since he's arrived is trade for huge contracts and trade his big men for SGs and SFs!


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## NYKBaller

*Re: Qrich for Kurt Thomas?*

allan houston is done
penny is gone

ariza and tim tomas are sfs


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## truth

*Re: Qrich for Kurt Thomas?*



Damian Necronamous said:


> Is Tim Thomas an expiring contract this season too?
> 
> Last I heard, Houston was well on his way to a comeback.
> 
> Jamal Crawford
> Quentin Richardson
> Allan Houston
> Tim Thomas
> Trevor Ariza
> Penny Hardaway
> 
> That's just way too many swingmen. All Thomas has done since he's arrived is trade for huge contracts and trade his big men for SGs and SFs!


D,there is a clause in the new CBA that will allow a team to waive one player and get luxury tax relief.Since the knicks are over the cap,if they wave H20,the will save 40 million dollars in luxury tax..So the Knicks are getting paid 40 million to waive h20..he is gone..

TT and Penny are expiring contracts

So you have a backcourt of Q,JC and marbury..The Knicks needed some size and shooting and Q is a great pickup....

The only big we traded since Zeke is Doleac and he brought us Naz who brought us Rose and the number 30 pick..What this trade allows us to do is go big in the draft,hopefully Bynum,possibly Frye..It also saves Marburys life as KT wanted to kill him :curse:


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## MentalPowerHouse

*Re: Qrich for Kurt Thomas?*

Sweetney is just not that good unless he finally gets in shape and even then he might be alright, JWD and Rose are decent bench players, and unless you draft Bogut there is no C in this draft ready to play in the league.


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## HKF

*Re: No clue what Zeke is doing...*



truth said:


> Actually,all its gonna save is 40 million in luxury tax if i am not mistaken..I dont think it gives cap relief...
> 
> Q has the size and strength to be a lock down defender if he put his mind to it.He is 6'6" 230....Hes not going to be getting posted up,and he grabs 6 boards per game..
> 
> I love this trade....


You are right. It's just 40 million in luxury tax, not cap room. So Houston is out of here. Thank goodness. Layden gave him the biggest gift of his life.

Man, I don't care if they aren't ready for a year but Isiah needs to take Andew Bynum, 7'1 278 lbs. C and Amir Johnson, 6'11 220 lbs. PF. Let them go work in Roanoke and come back in 06 ready to rock. 

Please Isiah don't draft Channing Frye.


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## Rashidi

*Re: No clue what Zeke is doing...*

Fire Isiah.

This team doesn't need another 3pt chucker that doesn't defend, especially not at the expense of the team's only defensive rebounder and center over 6'7. Did we mention Q-Rich just signed a 6 year deal last year? Oh hooray.

The Knicks better pray that Channing Frye doesn't get picked before 8th. It's probable that some team will take him and force the Knicks into a trade.

PG: Marbury (16.4 million, 4 more years)
SG: Crawford (6.5 million, 6 more years)
SF: Richardson (6.3 million, 5 more years)
PF: Sweetney (2.1 million, 2 more years)
C: Taylor (9.1 million, 2 more years)
Bench
C: Rose (6.0 million, 3 more years)
PF: JYD (6.0 million, 2 more years)
SF: Ariza (0.4 million, 1 more year)

That gives the Knicks 2 picks (3 if you count round 2), 2 players coming off the cap that will be traded, and 2 exceptions to not only fill out the gaps on the roster, but also move some scrubs to the bench.

BTW, don't we owe Phoenix enough draft picks already? This is going to be the Knicks last draft for quite some time.



> Layden gave him the biggest gift of his life.


Oh look, it's the dead horse. DOLAN. Not Layden. DOLAN.


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## truth

*Re: No clue what Zeke is doing...*



HKF said:


> You are right. It's just 40 million in luxury tax, not cap room. So Houston is out of here. Thank goodness. Layden gave him the biggest gift of his life.
> 
> Man, I don't care if they aren't ready for a year but Isiah needs to take Andew Bynum, 7'1 278 lbs. C and Amir Johnson, 6'11 220 lbs. PF. Let them go work in Roanoke and come back in 06 ready to rock.
> 
> Please Isiah don't draft Channing Frye.


HKF,I do hope you are right...We have sukked this long,whats another year...
I really like Bynum..Hes a great student(3.6 gpa),and has really worked to get his body in NBA shape..At 7'1",9'4" standing reach and a 34" vertical he is worth the shot..

Amir Johnson?hmmmm..nevr saw him play

I can live with Frye..


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## HKF

*Re: No clue what Zeke is doing...*



truth said:


> HKF,I do hope you are right...We have sukked this long,whats another year...
> I really like Bynum..Hes a great student(3.6 gpa),and has really worked to get his body in NBA shape..At 7'1",9'4" standing reach and a 34" vertical he is worth the shot..
> 
> Amir Johnson?hmmmm..nevr saw him play
> 
> I can live with Frye..


Amir Johnson was a Louisville recruit. Put it this way, after two years, Pitino would of had him as a lotto pick. He could really be a Chris Wilcox type of player, just give him a chance to gain weight and PT in the NBDL.


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## The True Essence

*Re: No clue what Zeke is doing...*

too many people are looking at this deal as a short term fix....its not. they look at our current roster and are baffled.

the facts are, we sucked last year. Kurts old. He is not a part of our future, cause in the future, hes gonna suck. Hes good now though. But whats the point of having him? We sucked with him, we'll suck without him, but at least we'll have Q Rich,who is 7 years younger, grabs 6 boards a game, has a good post game, and can drain threes.

how many of you guys said we needed a shooter? how many of you were mad that our SF couldnt rebound?

so, whats the deal?


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## Rashidi

*Re: No clue what Zeke is doing...*



> Q has the size and strength to be a lock down defender if he put his mind to it.


Lots of players do. It takes more than that, it takes heart and desire. Kurt Thomas is the closest thing the Knicks had to Oakley, and you're happy about trading him for the guy that threw up more threes than anyone in the league?



> He is 6'6" 230....Hes not going to be getting posted up,and he grabs 6 boards per game..


Our last SF was 6'10 and 240. He didn't get posted up much either. Q-Rich can't stay with his man, just like Crawford and Marbury. Yay for penetration.

As for 6 boards per game, lets check out the 82games rebound ratings for a few guys.

Kurt: 30.9 (6.1 off, 24.7 def)
KVH: 20.1
Jefferson: 18.5
Ariza: 18.5
Q-Rich: 15.6 (3.2 off, 12.3 def)
Kobe: 14.7
Prince: 14.7
Wade: 13.6
TT: 13.0

Q-Rich is an average rebounder for a SF, nothing to get excited about.

But otherwise, I'm happy you're happy we traded the team's only interior presence for a younger NY version of Spree, minus the defense/passing/handling. Hey who knows, maybe we can sign Spree and move Q-Rich to PF.


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## truth

*Re: No clue what Zeke is doing...*



Rashidi said:


> Fire Isiah.
> 
> This team doesn't need another 3pt chucker that doesn't defend, especially not at the expense of the team's only defensive rebounder and center over 6'7. Did we mention Q-Rich just signed a 6 year deal last year? Oh hooray.
> 
> The Knicks better pray that Channing Frye doesn't get picked before 8th. It's probable that some team will take him and force the Knicks into a trade.
> 
> That gives the Knicks 2 picks (3 if you count round 2), 2 players coming off the cap that will be traded, and 2 exceptions to not only fill out the gaps on the roster, but also move some scrubs to the bench.
> 
> BTW, don't we owe Phoenix enough draft picks already? This is going to be the Knicks last draft for quite some time.


I knew this would bring you out..welcome back...
Would you have rather traded for Wally????
What did you realistically think KT can get you?

H20 is gone with the new waiver clause,so we did need a 2 guard.I agree KT was our best interior defender and gave 100%,but its time Sweetney started playing.....

Do you like Frye or would you rather take a shot on Bynum.I am happy with either...Keep in mind,by getting Q,we can afford to draft big..


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## knickstorm

*Re: No clue what Zeke is doing...*



truth said:


> I knew this would bring you out..welcome back...
> Would you have rather traded for Wally????
> What did you realistically think KT can get you?
> 
> H20 is gone with the new waiver clause,so we did need a 2 guard.I agree KT was our best interior defender and gave 100%,but its time Sweetney started playing.....
> 
> Do you like Frye or would you rather take a shot on Bynum.I am happy with either...Keep in mind,by getting Q,we can afford to draft big..


wat5ch houston will leave and like mcdyess or nazr, contribute on a solid ball club, just the way things work with isiah.


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## knickstorm

*Re: Qrich for Kurt Thomas?*

real gm says knicks getting the pick? that's just ripping the suns off. What are the suns thinking, you dont need a PF, or back up PF, you need to find yourself a center.


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## The True Essence

*Re: No clue what Zeke is doing...*

of course, having Duncan didnt help nazr at all down low. hes been terrible in the finals anyways.

and, mcdyess was the knicks doctors fault. phoenix saved his career with the doctors they had over there. he said the therapy was "night n day" between NY and PHO.

let houston go contribute on a winning team. its only a short term fix. we dont need him


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## HKF

*Re: No clue what Zeke is doing...*



knickstorm said:


> wat5ch houston will leave and like mcdyess or nazr, contribute on a solid ball club, just the way things work with isiah.


Here is the thing. McDyess is playing behind the two Wallace's. He plays 20 minutes a night. For the Knicks he was asked to be a savior. He wasn't a savior.

As for Nazr, have you been watching him in these Finals? He's been horrible. Can't finish, can't catch passes, getting his shot packed. Screw him, he stinks.

If Houston blows up on another team, I guarantee you, he will not play more than 15-20 minutes a night on another team. He's being paid 19 million and 20 million the next two seasons to hope for possibly 15-20 minutes a night. That's abhorrent.


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## truth

*Re: No clue what Zeke is doing...*



PennyHardaway said:


> too many people are looking at this deal as a short term fix....its not. they look at our current roster and are baffled.
> the facts are, we sucked last year. Kurts old. He is not a part of our future, cause in the future, hes gonna suck. Hes good now though. But whats the point of having him? We sucked with him, we'll suck without him, but at least we'll have Q Rich,who is 7 years younger, grabs 6 boards a game, has a good post game, and can drain threes.
> how many of you guys said we needed a shooter? how many of you were mad that our SF couldnt rebound?
> so, whats the deal?


Penny you know the deal..rashidi hates Zeke,so no matter what goes down,he will start with his usual diatribe....

You are dead right.Kurt will be too old too contribute if and when this thing gets turned around.

Crawford is not a 2 guard and we needed a 2 who will not get posted up and can shoot from the perimeter.Hopefully Q can give JC 10 pounds and play the 2...

What really amazes me is the expectations people have.What do people think a 33 y.o KT brings on the open market??This is as good as it gets.We filled the SG slot and can draft a 5...If its Bynum,at least Q wont be on social security when Bynum is ready


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## truth

*Re: No clue what Zeke is doing...*



HKF said:


> Here is the thing. McDyess is playing behind the two Wallace's. He plays 20 minutes a night. For the Knicks he was asked to be a savior. He wasn't a savior.
> 
> As for Nazr, have you been watching him in these Finals? He's been horrible. Can't finish, can't catch passes, getting his shot packed. Screw him, he stinks.
> 
> If Houston blows up on another team, I guarantee you, he will not play more than 15-20 minutes a night on another team. He's being paid 19 million and 20 million the next two seasons to hope for possibly 15-20 minutes a night. That's abhorrent.


Cant worry about what H20 brings to another team..Hes done,other than a spot up shooter,if hes lucky..

As for Naz,hes a decent second string center..Zeke saw it and corrected the situation..His game is 5 feet and in and is weak fundamentally..Ill take Frye over him any day of the week


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## truth

*Re: Qrich for Kurt Thomas?*



knickstorm said:


> real gm says knicks getting the pick? that's just ripping the suns off. What are the suns thinking, you dont need a PF, or back up PF, you need to find yourself a center.


which we will draft......

we give a conditional pick


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## Dissonance

*Re: Qrich for Kurt Thomas?*



knickstorm said:


> real gm says knicks getting the pick? that's just ripping the suns off. What are the suns thinking, you dont need a PF, or back up PF, you need to find yourself a center.


Nah it says we get the future first rounder. And as for Kurt Thomas. I'm iffy on the deal right now but from what people are saying he can rebound and play some defense and give Amare a break. I don't know if he's gonna be played at C or not though. As for needing a C. Yeah, sure we'll go to the tree that grows centers because they come so very often. We weren't gonna throw a lot of money at Dalembert. We made this deal to also save money to resign JJ.


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## truth

*Re: Qrich for Kurt Thomas?*



dissonance19 said:


> Nah it says we get the future first rounder. And as for Kurt Thomas. I'm iffy on the deal right now but from what people are saying he can rebound and play some defense and give Amare a break. I don't know if he's gonna be played at C or not though. As for needing a C. Yeah, sure we'll go to the tree that grows centers because they come so very often. We weren't gonna throw a lot of money at Dalembert. We made this deal to also save money to resign JJ.


Hey,kurt will be great for you guys..hes a great shooter,great D,and will get you 10 boards a game and give 100%..

hav you seen much or Frye??

I think he or Bynum are next for us


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## Starbury03

*Re: Qrich for Kurt Thomas?*

Kurt Thomas is an upgrade over Marion having to play down-low. but the Knicks acquire another horrible contract. Q doesnt shoot a great 3 point percentage he just shoots alot of them. So he isnt a great help with perimeter shooting but will still help.


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## truth

*Re: Qrich for Kurt Thomas?*



Starbury03 said:


> Kurt Thomas is an upgrade over Marion having to play down-low. but the Knicks acquire another horrible contract. Q doesnt shoot a great 3 point percentage he just shoots alot of them. So he isnt a great help with perimeter shooting but will still help.


we swapped "horrible" contracts,and took on an extra year..


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## Starbury03

*Re: Qrich for Kurt Thomas?*

Thomas is an alot better player in my opinon. Q shoots too many 3's. So you put Crawford and Q together. Wow. There are gonna be some horrible shots. Plus they get another player who doesnt play D.


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## Dissonance

*Re: Qrich for Kurt Thomas?*




truth said:


> Hey,kurt will be great for you guys..hes a great shooter,great D,and will get you 10 boards a game and give 100%..
> 
> hav you seen much or Frye??
> 
> I think he or Bynum are next for us


Yeah, being an Arizona Wildcats fan. I saw him plenty. And people wonder why Frye has moved up. It's because he's more of a *sure thing* than these high schoolers and foreign players. I bet at worst he's *at least * a solid center but I could be wrong. If Warriors took him, he'd give A LOT more than what Foyle is doing. Frye could be even better than just solid depending on the situation he gets drafted in. He's fundamentally sound, soft hands, can hit mid range shots, or even step out and hit the 3. Pretty good post moves could work on that. Despite being lanky he has great length. I'm sure he'll bulk up more. I thought I read he gained muscle up to 260. He weighed 248 in college. But he showed more aggressiveness this past yr which he needed to work on. Needs to get better in rebounding. He plays pretty good defense. Good shot blocker. Great FT shooter. I bet if Frye dominated more through his college yrs, you'd prolly say he would be a top 5 pick. I also fully believe, Frye and Arizona woulda given the May probs and UNC a better run than ILL, his length and blocking abilities would given him probs. He's far better than the C's Illinois had. Not saying we'd win though. I can't believe we blew that 15 pt lead to Illinois :curse: . They deserved to be there though. I actually rooted for them.


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## truth

*Re: Qrich for Kurt Thomas?*

Did you watch him against Bogut??It looked like he got the better of Bogut..
I agree with you,I think you would have beaten UNC.I think may will be a huge bust in the NBA....Too short,Trex arms and nothing outstanding about him..

What suprised me about Frye was his upperbody strength..Gor a guy with his wingspan,19 reps at 185 is excellent...I would be pleased if he goes to us at #8.its hard not to fall in love with Bynums attributes,but one could say the same thing about Jerome James or Diop the flop..I think fundamentals and intelligence are highly under rated in the NBA.

The fact that Frye can hit the open Jumper will make life alot easier for Sweetney,our new PF.The problem before was with Kurt at the 5 and zero post game,opposing centers guarded Sweetney down low.With Fryes length and shot he can play inside or out and you have to repect his shot...

We shall find out shortly


----------



## dcrono3

*Re: Qrich for Kurt Thomas?*

I'm not sure I like the trade, since iwth Richardson and Crawford both shooting the ball, we have two players who will take a huge chunk of the shots shooting under 40%, which will be brutal to our offense. Our front court will be much weaker, not that it was strong to begin with, but who could the Knicks start at center and PF? I'm not sold on Frye, and Sweetney isn't the answer if he plays like last year. I'm also worried about the "conditional" first rounder. For all we know the condition could be close to impossible and we could never get the pick at all. Even if we do, the Suns' pick wil lprobably be very late first round, which seriously cuts the value of the pick.


----------



## Debt Collector

*Re: No clue what Zeke is doing...*

i can't really even weigh in on this right now, i'm very upset about kurt being traded. quentin richardson is the last type of player we need at this point.


----------



## truth

*Re: Qrich for Kurt Thomas?*



dcrono3 said:


> I'm not sure I like the trade, since iwth Richardson and Crawford both shooting the ball, we have two players who will take a huge chunk of the shots shooting under 40%, which will be brutal to our offense. Our front court will be much weaker, not that it was strong to begin with, but who could the Knicks start at center and PF? I'm not sold on Frye, and Sweetney isn't the answer if he plays like last year. I'm also worried about the "conditional" first rounder. For all we know the condition could be close to impossible and we could never get the pick at all. Even if we do, the Suns' pick wil lprobably be very late first round, which seriously cuts the value of the pick.


Dc,its the coaches job to make sure the Knicks actually have a system and some semblance of an offense,as opposed to JC and Q hoisting em..

If you arent sold on Frye,and not sold on Q fot KT,would you have rather we drafted small,and trade for a big??? Such as???? Dampier??....Would you want Kwame??? 

Or perhaps Bynum...Remenber its the #8 pick,not 1,and we traded KT not a 24 y.o all star..


----------



## truth

*Re: No clue what Zeke is doing...*



Debt Collector said:


> i can't really even weigh in on this right now, i'm very upset about kurt being traded. quentin richardson is the last type of player we need at this point.


my condolences  

DB,we need to draft big..its the righteous path....We couldnt draft small and trade for a big,unless you wanted Dampier


----------



## Debt Collector

*Re: No clue what Zeke is doing...*



truth said:


> my condolences
> 
> DB,we need to draft big..its the righteous path....We couldnt draft small and trade for a big,unless you wanted Dampier



yea it seems like we dont really have a choice anymore.


----------



## truth

*Re: No clue what Zeke is doing...*



Debt Collector said:


> yea it seems like we dont really have a choice anymore.


its not a done deal
The Phoenix Suns and New York Knicks are in serious talks about a trade that would send Quentin Richardson and a conditional future first-round pick to the Knicks for Kurt Thomas two league sources said.



> However, both sources claim that the trade hasn't been completed.
> 
> The trade, if it is consummated, would be a good one for both teams. Thomas can provide the Suns more toughness in the paint. He also can play center, allowing the Suns to move Amare Stoudemire back to his natural position at the four. The deal would also clear some cap space, long term, for the Suns, who must re-sign Joe Johnson this summer.
> 
> The Knicks have a log jam at the four and have been trying to move Thomas for a month. Richardson will be a good fit in the Knicks offense. He'd give Stephon Marbury a good shooter to kick it to on penetration. He'd also give the Knicks a swing man who can post up and rebound.


----------



## Skooled

*Suns send Richardson for Thomas?*

Report has it that the Suns have sent sf Quentin Richardson to the Knicks for Kurt.Thomas!!!! link: www.tsn.ca


----------



## Fordy74

*Re: No clue what Zeke is doing...*



PennyHardaway said:


> too many people are looking at this deal as a short term fix....its not. they look at our current roster and are baffled.
> 
> the facts are, we sucked last year. Kurts old. He is not a part of our future, cause in the future, hes gonna suck. Hes good now though. But whats the point of having him? We sucked with him, we'll suck without him, but at least we'll have Q Rich,who is 7 years younger, grabs 6 boards a game, has a good post game, and can drain threes.
> 
> how many of you guys said we needed a shooter? how many of you were mad that our SF couldnt rebound?
> 
> so, whats the deal?


This will be a good move only if Tim Thomas is benched. Q is 10x the rebounder Tim Thomas is. This is a good deal only if we arent giving up any number 1 picks.


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## Fordy74

I think this also means we are dead set on drafting FRYE. Frye will give us the same and probably better outside shot from our big man that Kurt had. But we also gain youth and a guy who can post up and block shots=something Kurt cannot do. Im not crazy about Q but he is a decent player, maybe he can work on his game and start driving the ball more like he used to with the Clippers, instead of just being a chucker like he was in Phoenix... Dissonance, if you end up being able to re-sign JJ because of this than its a great move. you retain a very good underated player and also add a veteran big man.


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## truth

Fordy74 said:


> I think this also means we are dead set on drafting FRYE. Frye will give us the same and probably better outside shot from our big man that Kurt had. But we also gain youth and a guy who can post up and block shots=something Kurt cannot do. Im not crazy about Q but he is a decent player, maybe he can work on his game and start driving the ball more like he used to with the Clippers, instead of just being a chucker like he was in Phoenix...


Other than giving up a draft pick,the trade will have no impact..Think about it.We wre terrible with KT last year so losing him wont make a difference.Lets face it,the days of KT and H20 are over..KT is still a very servicable big man,but on a good team.We are not good...

We have to play Sweets and you can not have Sweets and KT on the floor at the same time.Kt has absolutely no post up game,so centers guard Sweets and power fowards play KT..At least with Frye,we can keep defenses honest as he has a post game and can stroke it from outside..

Its going to make marbury much more effective as Frye has great hands and can finish.Have you ever seen Thomas finish???He goes away from the basket..

Sweets will finally get his chance.He will be the starting power foward,and should be very effective assuming he comes into camp in shape and ready to rock

Anything Q can provide is just gravy..


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## inapparent

so am I to take it that no one has a definitive answer yet as to whether we get or give the 1st rounder?


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## truth

inapparent said:


> so am I to take it that no one has a definitive answer yet as to whether we get or give the 1st rounder?


give


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## bucket

ESPN is reporting we would GET a 1st round pick.


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## OGR

We recieve the first round pick.

Look, we had 5 PFs on the roster, and 1 healthy SG. Penny is gone, Houston is getting waived, TT and Ariza cover the 3, Crawford was the only 2 guard. With this trade we shed another PF off the roster. We allow Crawford to move back to the bench to backup both guard positions (what he was originially supposed to do with Houston here). Now we can focus on drafting a center, or 2, next Tuesday. I expect something like this after Tuesday.

PG: Stephon Marbury/Jamal Crawford
SG: Quentin Richardson/Jamal Crawford
SF: Tim Thomas/Trevor Ariza/Jerome Williams
PF: Michael Sweetney/Malik Rose/Mo Taylor
C: Channing Frye/Andray Blatche

Something similiar to that. Which is why this trade was made. To replace Allan, and shed another PF.


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## truth

bucket said:


> ESPN is reporting we would GET a 1st round pick.


holy shirt...Realgm is claiming there is confusion over the pick but it appears the knicks do get it :clap: 

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_a..._deal_richardson_traded_to_knicks_for_thomas/

dont we owe them one already??


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## inapparent

truth said:


> holy shirt...Realgm is claiming there is confusion over the pick but it appears the knicks do get it :clap:
> 
> http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_a..._deal_richardson_traded_to_knicks_for_thomas/
> 
> dont we owe them one already??


THAT'S what I'm talking about. I don't get people who are against this trade, esp. if we're getting this pick--KT is getting old, his defense/"Interior presence" is overstated, QRich still has upside and has delivered onplenty of his former potential already, we stockpile another 1st rounder, we can possibly have Crawford as a 6th man if he doesn't continue to discipline his body and on-court impulses, we can draft an actual 5 and give big minutes to Sweetney (who will be at least serviceable). Our roster is more flexible, more distributed, younger, more athletic and our cap "hell" just changed its nature slightly, which means I don't mind Q's 5yrs. I'm not saying this makes us a run and gun playoff team yet, that depends on Sweetney's and Ariza's continuing improvement (as well as Jamal's) and on what kind of play we get from whoever mans the 5, but we're not worse, we might be better, and we have more picks to deal in combination with expiring contracts to try to land a stud.


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## truth

inapparent,i am 100% in agreement with you..I likeed the trade even when we were giving the pick..

KT and sweetney can not be on the court at the same time..It kills us on offense....

We can still deal for kwame and draft frye who can play the 4/5..

As much as i roast marbury,I think he will be much improved if we can land a big..I love this move


----------



## truth

OGR said:


> We recieve the first round pick.
> 
> Look, we had 5 PFs on the roster, and 1 healthy SG. Penny is gone, Houston is getting waived, TT and Ariza cover the 3, Crawford was the only 2 guard. With this trade we shed another PF off the roster. We allow Crawford to move back to the bench to backup both guard positions (what he was originially supposed to do with Houston here). Now we can focus on drafting a center, or 2, next Tuesday. I expect something like this after Tuesday.
> 
> PG: Stephon Marbury/Jamal Crawford
> SG: Quentin Richardson/Jamal Crawford
> SF: Tim Thomas/Trevor Ariza/Jerome Williams
> PF: Michael Sweetney/Malik Rose/Mo Taylor
> C: Channing Frye/Andray Blatche
> 
> Something similiar to that. Which is why this trade was made. To replace Allan, and shed another PF.


Welcome OGR...Looks like you have come at the right time...Frye and Batche??

Works for me....Ild take Bynum if worse come to worse


----------



## NYKBaller

now kurt is traded so he is a post up player and defensive stopper, WTF??


----------



## ChosenFEW

*Re: No clue what Zeke is doing...*



PennyHardaway said:


> too many people are looking at this deal as a short term fix....its not. they look at our current roster and are baffled.
> 
> the facts are, we sucked last year. Kurts old. He is not a part of our future, cause in the future, hes gonna suck. Hes good now though. But whats the point of having him? We sucked with him, we'll suck without him, but at least we'll have Q Rich,who is 7 years younger, grabs 6 boards a game, has a good post game, and can drain threes.
> 
> how many of you guys said we needed a shooter? how many of you were mad that our SF couldnt rebound?
> 
> so, whats the deal?



exactly ...face it the knicks arent going anywhere anytime soon unless we make some big trades later on down the road and q-rich just gives us another playmaker piece that we could use and trade somebody else on the team,.... or use him as the trade bait..

either way i like the trade




P.S first post yeaaaaaaaaaaa maybe it wasnt a great first post but o well :cheers:


----------



## Weasel

Welcome all new Knicks posters!


----------



## inapparent

*Re: No clue what Zeke is doing...*



ChosenFEW said:


> exactly ...face it the knicks arent going anywhere anytime soon unless we make some big trades later on down the road and q-rich just gives us another playmaker piece that we could use and trade somebody else on the team,.... or use him as the trade bait..
> 
> either way i like the trade
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P.S first post yeaaaaaaaaaaa maybe it wasnt a great first post but o well :cheers:


I'll drink to that :cheers:


----------



## Biggestfanoftheknicks

Trading for the sake of Trading? WTF is wrong with you knuckleheads All of the non knick fans I don't give a crap about but for those of us who actually like this team this is a **** trade and you know it. 

Qrich has a long contract(2010_, and ill defined position, NO ABILITY TO SHOOT THE GOD DAMN BALL WHATEVER !! Show him more minutes HE'LL SHOW A DECLINE IN EVERY Type of shooting percentage IMAGINABLE

YOU WOULD KNOW THIS IF YOU WATCHED THE MORON PLAY AT LADEPAUL, AND THE SUNS HE PLAYED A DAMN POWERFORWARD IN COLLEGE THAT'S WHERE HIS HEAD IS AT! We just added another shoot first think later player.


AAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH!! STOP CALLING HIM A SHOOTER AND A PLAYMAKER HE DOES NEITHER OF THOSE THINGS. HIS BEST QUALITIES ARE HIS POST GAME AND HIS DEFENSE. He CANNOT SHOOT HE CANNOT PASS. HE DOES NOT MAKE PEOPLE AROUND HIM BETTER. WHY DO YOU THINK LA LET HIM WALK? Money? NO THEY KEPT BRAND? THink about it!

Isiah must not be a Knick fan. Seriously wtf???? This is all we could get for Kurt Thomas? We got a guy who never passes, never saw a shot he didn't like, Can barely make shots, and has the basketball IQ of a retarded rock.


WTF? Seriously how the hell can you applaud this trade? What does quentin richardson bring to the table that we didn't already have in TT and Trevor? NOTHING The guy has a HORRIBLE SHOOTING GAME. A TERRIBLE PASSING GAME BARELY GETS TO THE FREE THROW LINE I mean Jesus he really sucks!!!!!!!!!


Show me anyone who's a qrich fan and I'll show you someone who likes Dunks and And1 more than basketball.

Sheesh what bad news. Qrich blows, he won't help us win at all because he sucks. End of story. I swear to god you all must be from another atlantic division team in disguise or something, this is horrible. We also just gave up our only sembalance of interior toughness. If you think Bynum, Frye, or god forbid petro is going to do better than Kurt I've got a piece of the Brooklyn Bridge I can sell you.


----------



## Biggestfanoftheknicks

Well whatever celebrate all you want guys, and don't even bring up last season where he sat amongst all stars. If Phoenix had any faith in him being better than JJ they wouldn't be doing this ( and I Hope they don't I'm praying Joe Johnsons dog trisp JJ and he's out for a 4-5 months so they don't do this) This whole 8 milion powerforwards thing is bullcrap shutup about it if we don't get anyone useful.


Love Q-rich all you want even playing on the suns couldn't hide his flaws, New York without an interior presence and a passing backcourt will revert him back to his LA days.


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## ChosenFEW

we had to trade kurt his trade value was going down every year so the quicker we got rid of him the better chance we would get something even worth talking about back.....

in your essay, u wrote that they let richardson go from the clippers because of brand,....actually if im not mistaken it was because of corey maggette..

third..richardson is 7 years younger than kurt if u dont think were going to use him as trade bait in the future then i dont know what your thinking...

posters like u that say they actually care about the knicks and ***** about every trade they make just cant get over the fact that were not going anywhere theres not going to be trade out there or a draft pick thats going to take us to the promise land,....regardless of how much u *****....the best thing to do is to blow the team up and start from scratch but with isaiah and the dolans wanting to win now thats not going to happen anytime soon....


----------



## Rashidi

Don't worry, it's a temporary stay.


----------



## truth

Rashidi said:


> Don't worry, it's a temporary stay.


thats an interesting thought....Denver..Portland are 2 possibilities..

Someone threw out Derek Anderson and the #3 for Q rich and #8....

Denver was hot for Q last year werent they??

Either way,its a good trade for both teams


----------



## truth

Biggestfanoftheknicks said:


> Qrich has a long contract(2010_, and ill defined position, NO ABILITY TO SHOOT THE GOD DAMN BALL WHATEVER !!
> * HIS BEST QUALITIES ARE HIS POST GAME AND HIS DEFENSE*. He CANNOT SHOOT HE CANNOT PASS.
> Isiah must not be a Knick fan. Seriously wtf???? This is all we could get for Kurt Thomas?
> WTF? Seriously how the hell can you applaud this trade? What does quentin richardson bring to the table that we didn't already have in TT and Trevor? NOTHING The guy has a HORRIBLE SHOOTING GAME. A TERRIBLE PASSING GAME BARELY GETS TO THE FREE THROW LINE I mean Jesus he really sucks!!!!!!!!!
> If you think Bynum, Frye, or god forbid petro is going to do better than Kurt I've got a piece of the Brooklyn Bridge I can sell you.


Whatever it is you are smoking,pass it around.....Qrichs contract is 1 year than Kt..The only difference is KT will be on social security by then..

If all he can do is play D,Ild be happy..If he can guard 2 guards,Ild be thrilled..You are right,his outside shot is not great..TT has a better perimeter game..
What do you think a 33 y.o PF with no post game a long contract and a trade kicker gets you??Wally Serbiack??Damp???

If you dont think Bynum or Frye will be substantially better than KT at the 5,you havent been watching basketball.You can not have a 5 with no post game,no interior presence and able to be guarded by a 4..

You do realise we traded KT..We arent talking about Amare potential..Take a look at last years record..I wouldnt get thay wotked up about anyone on that squad


----------



## Biggestfanoftheknicks

ChosenFEW said:


> we had to trade kurt his trade value was going down every year so the quicker we got rid of him the better chance we would get something even worth talking about back.....
> 
> in your essay, u wrote that they let richardson go from the clippers because of brand,....actually if im not mistaken it was because of corey maggette..
> 
> third..richardson is 7 years younger than kurt if u dont think were going to use him as trade bait in the future then i dont know what your thinking...
> 
> posters like u that say they actually care about the knicks and ***** about every trade they make just cant get over the fact that were not going anywhere theres not going to be trade out there or a draft pick thats going to take us to the promise land,....regardless of how much u *****....the best thing to do is to blow the team up and start from scratch but with isaiah and the dolans wanting to win now thats not going to happen anytime soon....



Jesus did you break out of the Central Park Zoo to post this? I can barely understand a damn word.

I never said that the clippers let him go because of brand. I only said the clipper pay for quality and not crap. The shorter Q-rich is here the better, this is the second team in his basketball career that's let him walk for pennies. Everyone should take note of that.

I stopped after the second " u " as opposed to you. Man I hate that. I just told some ninja's where you live. I'd watch out if were you; they hate poor grammar too.


----------



## Biggestfanoftheknicks

truth said:


> Whatever it is you are smoking,pass it around.....Qrichs contract is 1 year than Kt..The only difference is KT will be on social security by then..


Thomas runs through the 07/08 Qbrick Runs through the 09/10 not the 08/09. Allow me to pass around the reality I'm smoking, it'll do wonders for you.


truth said:


> If all he can do is play D,Ild be happy..If he can guard 2 guards,Ild be thrilled..


You'll be thrilled if he has the same skill set as Trevor but takes time away from his much needed development? What did Trevor Ariza ever do to you?


truth said:


> You are right,his outside shot is not great..TT has a better perimeter game..
> What do you think a 33 y.o PF with no post game a long contract and a trade kicker gets you??Wally Serbiack??Damp???


Szerb or Damp would be a huge huge huge offensive upgrade. I don't know where you're going with this. One is a player who shoots the lights out, doesn't cause crap, is retarded on defense and always hustles. The other is a center. A real center. Who because of his size only is top 10 in the league.



truth said:


> If you dont think Bynum or Frye will be substantially better than KT at the 5,you havent been watching basketball.You can not have a 5 with no post game,no interior presence and able to be guarded by a 4..


Don't be a complete *******. You're comparing a guy who averages a double double in the NBA with two players who have never set foot in the league, ONE WHO HAS NEVER EVEN BEEN TO COLLEGE. And somehow they'll be better? Put down the crack pipe!!!!!!!!!!! Bynum is at least One year away from contributing AT LEAST!

And what are you doing blabbering about Thomas not having any post moves then turning around and recommending Frye????? Thomas Easily has more moves than Frye, they have a pretty damn similar game!! Did you not watch Channing?

Kurt Thomas would punch you in the nuts for such a dig. That's another thing we are losing out on. Interior toughness.




truth said:


> You do realise we traded KT..We arent talking about Amare potential..Take a look at last years record..I wouldnt get thay wotked up about anyone on that squad


If we traded Steph for Dan Dickau and a first round draft choice would you say the same thing?


----------



## Biggestfanoftheknicks

Rashidi said:


> Don't worry, it's a temporary stay.


Elaborate?


----------



## dcrono3

*Re: Qrich for Kurt Thomas?*



truth said:


> Dc,its the coaches job to make sure the Knicks actually have a system and some semblance of an offense,as opposed to JC and Q hoisting em..
> 
> If you arent sold on Frye,and not sold on Q fot KT,would you have rather we drafted small,and trade for a big??? Such as???? Dampier??....Would you want Kwame???
> 
> Or perhaps Bynum...Remenber its the #8 pick,not 1,and we traded KT not a 24 y.o all star..


First, we don't even have a coach yet, so we have no idea what the offense will be. If we get someone like Jim O'brien, then Crawford and Richardson would be hoisting up 3's all day. 

Either way, Richardson and Crawford together on the court makes me uneasy. They aren't good shooters, and with those shooting percentages, I would be prepared for a lot of misses. Remember, these shooting percentages were when both players were in a "system and some semblance of a offense."

I'm not sold on Frye, and I would rather have someone like Taft, who we could trade back for if his stock is dropping. Kwame is someone I still have hope for too, I really think he needs a change of scenery. I just don't think we need another swingman who shoots below 40%. IF Richardson can change his game, it wouldm' be such a bad trade I guess. But Richardson is not a 24 year-old all-star, that is for sure.


----------



## Fordy74

Weasel said:


> Welcome all new Knicks posters!



ditto.. good to see some new faces, maybe we can get this forum rocking for once. its been a long time coming. This is the best place to talk basketball on the net, just most Knicks fans havent found it yet I guess.. hopefully we can build this place up like the Bulls,Blazers,and Nets board.


----------



## Richie Rich

*Re: No clue what Zeke is doing...*



HKF said:


> No cap room for 3 years my man. None. Regardless of if Isiah does nothing.



But I believe the question is, why make it EVEN WORSE, liek the Mo Taylor deal and now this one. And the players are not THAT much better that you TAKE on more salary and more years...


----------



## ChosenFEW

Biggestfanoftheknicks said:


> Jesus did you break out of the Central Park Zoo to post this? I can barely understand a damn word.
> 
> I never said that the clippers let him go because of brand. I only said the clipper pay for quality and not crap. The shorter Q-rich is here the better, this is the second team in his basketball career that's let him walk for pennies. Everyone should take note of that.
> 
> I stopped after the second " u " as opposed to you. Man I hate that. I just told some ninja's where you live. I'd watch out if were you; they hate poor grammar too.



I didn't know my grammer was going to be tested on a Knicks board. Someone should have gave me the heads up....


n e wayz ill be ready 4 dem ninjas beeeeeyyaaatch....*HOW'S THAT FOR GRAMMER* :biggrin:


----------



## truth

> Don't be a complete *******. You're comparing a guy who averages a double double in the NBA with two players who have never set foot in the league, ONE WHO HAS NEVER EVEN BEEN TO COLLEGE. And somehow they'll be better? Put down the crack pipe!!!!!!!!!!! Bynum is at least One year away from contributing AT LEAST!
> 
> And what are you doing blabbering about Thomas not having any post moves then turning around and recommending Frye????? Thomas Easily has more moves than Frye, they have a pretty damn similar game!! Did you not watch Channing?


Let me spell it out for you...KT is a very good player in a complementary role.He has absolutely NO post game whatsoever.The Knicks are going to start Sweetney at the power foward.They need a player who can be a force down on the blocks to have an inside out game.KT's interior game is so bad that opposing centers wind up guarding Sweets and the 4 guards Kurt.KT couldnt take a 6th grader off the dribble so it completly stifles our offense.

KT has no moves.ZERO..count them...He is a pick and roll,spot up shooter.The Knicks will never be any good with a KT caliber foward/center unless they got a Bynum and he developed.You are missing the whole point.

KT played great for us,but he is a role player who doesnt get aong with marbury.As long as he is in the starting five,the Knicks are doomed.Whats your goal??To finish .500??You dont get it.This is a process.KT is 33 and has no potential.Bynum should he develop could be a dominant force.Of course he wont deliver tomorrow.But I can guarantee you that as long as KT is starting at the 5,the Knicks will be a joke.....And its not a knock against him.hes a great complimentary player,but we need frontcourt studs...

Look at the big picture.Stop being myopic.....Kurts a double double but he has a soft offensive game.We need sweets to be a monster at the 4.And guess what,he may not be.But we have to find out if you ever want to be a contending team...You want mediocrity??Stick with Kurt


----------



## alphadog

*Agree...*

Bynum is an unknown with huge potential (UCONN offer says it all..they don't take stiffs). Frye DOES have a nice inside outside game. Probably not quite the shooter KT is but I have seen the clips plus some games he has played against top teams and he definitely has a very good low post game.

I don't want Qrich, either. I would much rather have had Wally. Since both have trouble defending, I'll take the effort guy with the deadly shot. If IT passed on him for Q, and plans to keep Q, I'll be super pisssed.


----------



## Da Grinch

Q and wally aren't the same guy ...and they play different positions ....wally has been playing the 3 in minny for years now , spree holds down that shooting guard spot. Also wally Z really isn't a big time 3 point shooter usually using the dying skill of midrange jump shooting.

i dont see how getting Q stops the knicks from getting wally ....if anything other developments make it more likely .

the nets are seemingly engaged in talks to get garnett for krstic, #15 robinson and RJ if that happens i would say a deal with wally gets more likely because w/o a superstar of garnett's calibur Szczerbiak's contract is even more outragous to have on the books for the t'wolves.

a TT and #14 for wally and hassell makes sense for both teams...gives the knicks a defensive guard and a more consistent force who is a local guy who is very popular. it gives the t'wolves financial flexibility in Thomas' ending deal as well as a power forward...which is probably now timmy's true position, and the position he played as a buck before he was a knick.


----------



## urwhatueati8god

ChosenFEW said:


> I didn't know my grammer was going to be tested on a Knicks board. Someone should have gave me the heads up....
> 
> 
> n e wayz ill be ready 4 dem ninjas beeeeeyyaaatch....*HOW'S THAT FOR GRAMMER* :biggrin:


You spelled "grammar" wrong.


----------



## truth

urwhatueati8god said:


> You spelled "grammar" wrong.


enlightening post


----------



## Richie Rich

truth said:


> Let me spell it out for you...KT is a very good player in a complementary role.He has absolutely NO post game whatsoever.The Knicks are going to start Sweetney at the power foward.They need a player who can be a force down on the blocks to have an inside out game.KT's interior game is so bad that opposing centers wind up guarding Sweets and the 4 guards Kurt.KT couldnt take a 6th grader off the dribble so it completly stifles our offense.
> 
> KT has no moves.ZERO..count them...He is a pick and roll,spot up shooter.The Knicks will never be any good with a KT caliber foward/center unless they got a Bynum and he developed.You are missing the whole point.
> 
> KT played great for us,but he is a role player who doesnt get aong with marbury.As long as he is in the starting five,the Knicks are doomed.Whats your goal??To finish .500??You dont get it.This is a process.KT is 33 and has no potential.Bynum should he develop could be a dominant force.Of course he wont deliver tomorrow.But I can guarantee you that as long as KT is starting at the 5,the Knicks will be a joke.....And its not a knock against him.hes a great complimentary player,but we need frontcourt studs...
> 
> Look at the big picture.Stop being myopic.....Kurts a double double but he has a soft offensive game.We need sweets to be a monster at the 4.And guess what,he may not be.But we have to find out if you ever want to be a contending team...You want mediocrity??Stick with Kurt




Trade Marbury then cause IMO he's the problem with the Knicks. This was a terrible deal there's no other way around it. KT is 20X better than Mo Taylor, Malik Rose and they took on more salary for a 3 point bombadeer. Bad Bad Bad.


----------



## truth

Richie Rich said:


> Trade Marbury then cause IMO he's the problem with the Knicks. This was a terrible deal there's no other way around it. KT is 20X better than Mo Taylor, Malik Rose and they took on more salary for a 3 point bombadeer. Bad Bad Bad.


This is the irony of it all.If we came into camp with KT as our starting 5,every NY fan would be screaming for Zekes head.If Sweetney doesnt start this year,every NY fan would be screaming for Zekes head..Did anyone really like JC and Marbury as our backcourt??

Dont get me wrong.I think KT was our most valuable player..on a terrible team with gaping deficiencies all over the place.KT may be a double double,but he would NOT be starting this year.He would be a backup 5 or a backup to Sweetney.

We arent building a team to get to .500.If we were i would say keep KT.Unfortunately,he is not a post presence and certainly not a great weak side defender..

BTW,would you rather have Gooden??? Maybe Wally??Or possibly Damp??Cause that is what we are realistically talking about.You guys are really inflating KT's value ....Hes a good player on a crap team...period..

Why compare him to Taylor and Rose???They are role players...

I can not believe that it isnt painfully obvious that we need a big who can close down the freeway and play in the post...You guys must love sub mediocrity if you think KT was the answer...if we dont get a BYnum/Kwame who lives up to the hype,we are screwed..We need a 5,and the reality is it will probably be Frye.....

As for moving marbury,I would rather surround him with some talent first as opposed to giving him away ala Barron Davis..When you guys trade Pierce and get equal Value.let me know


----------



## HKF

If you trade Marbury, what are you getting back? Trading Marbury will make this team the worst team in the league and Greg Oden isn't in the 2006 draft.


----------



## Weasel

http://www.thejournalnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050624/SPORTS01/506240329/1108/SPORTS01 



> Quentin Richardson was in Manhattan for a photo shoot and spoke with Suns president Bryan Colangelo. He also believed a change of scenery was coming. The proposal also included a conditional first-round pick for the Knicks to use in a future draft.





> Though it's not finalized, a clause in the new collective bargaining agreement would allow the Knicks to buy out Allan Houston's oversized contract and save nearly $40 million in luxury tax.


----------



## truth

HKF said:


> If you trade Marbury, what are you getting back? Trading Marbury will make this team the worst team in the league and Greg Oden isn't in the 2006 draft.


thank you HKF....

Its unbelievable..on one hand people scream when we only get Q rich and a conditional first rounder back for KT and then they suggest moving marbury..I would move him in a heartbeat if another team approached us....But thats not happening so you have to build around him...


----------



## Da Grinch

Marbury is a very good player ...he is definitely not the problem, point guard is really the only position the knicks had where it didn't matter who the other team had playing.

if the 2 guard on the other team was a big one or an especially pyhsical one it gave crawford trouble.
if the small forward had any quickness or real scoring ability TT was going to have trouble.

if the bigs were athletic or could draw fouls it gave the knicks bigs some trouble.

if an elite pg was playing against the knicks it didn't matter , stephon is capable of matching or exceeding that player's impact on the game. Arenas , baron, nash , francis ,iverson it didn't really matter the knicks were going to be fine in regards to how they matched up...none of those guys are too quick or strong or skilled , because marbury can match them for the most part athleically and do something to them they cannot match up with well.

people need to stop making marbury the end all be all of basketball wrongs in ny ...its not like they were title contenders ...enter marbury and then the knicks were in the lottery.


----------



## truth

> people need to stop making marbury the end all be all of basketball wrongs in ny ...its not like they were title contenders ...enter marbury and then the knicks were in the lottery



D,my issue with Marbury is really his leadership abilities..It appears that wherever he goes,harmony ceases to exist and its no mere coincidence.Minny,NJ,Phoenix and NY.Ever wonder why a guy as talented as him has bounced around??

Look at the Spurs.Great team,humble,classy and guys with character who are supportive of one another..It starts with TD

Same with the Suns...It starts with Nash

The Knicks...it starts and ends with marbury...He had an axe to grind with KVH,couldnt stand KT,non supportive of Herb...D,hes toxic and its very hard to win with him as the "leader"...


----------



## Biggestfanoftheknicks

truth said:


> Let me spell it out for you...KT is a very good player in a complementary role.He has absolutely NO post game whatsoever.The Knicks are going to start Sweetney at the power foward.They need a player who can be a force down on the blocks to have an inside out game.KT's interior game is so bad that opposing centers wind up guarding Sweets and the 4 guards Kurt.KT couldnt take a 6th grader off the dribble so it completly stifles our offense.
> 
> KT has no moves.ZERO..count them...He is a pick and roll,spot up shooter.The Knicks will never be any good with a KT caliber foward/center unless they got a Bynum and he developed.You are missing the whole point.
> 
> KT played great for us,but he is a role player who doesnt get aong with marbury.As long as he is in the starting five,the Knicks are doomed.Whats your goal??To finish .500??You dont get it.This is a process.KT is 33 and has no potential.Bynum should he develop could be a dominant force.Of course he wont deliver tomorrow.But I can guarantee you that as long as KT is starting at the 5,the Knicks will be a joke.....And its not a knock against him.hes a great complimentary player,but we need frontcourt studs...
> 
> Look at the big picture.Stop being myopic.....Kurts a double double but he has a soft offensive game.We need sweets to be a monster at the 4.And guess what,he may not be.But we have to find out if you ever want to be a contending team...You want mediocrity??Stick with Kurt



You look at the big picture! We got smaller, longer contract, decreased offensive ability and decreased defense. The reason centers don't play him man up IS DUE TO HIS ABILITY TO HIT A MIDRANGE SHOT! It has little to do with his ability and everything to do with them not wanting to leave the lane open. This is just like when we got rid of the productive playoff disappearing Van Horn for TT. Everyone was cheering except those of us who knew what TT was all about.

You must have a lot of faith in Sweetney to be giving him the 4 spot if we draft a center. Frankly I don't. I can't stand the fact that he's still not in shape. Guy still looks like he enjoys a six pack of doughnuts after everygame.


----------



## truth

Biggestfanoftheknicks said:


> You look at the big picture! We got smaller, longer contract, decreased offensive ability and decreased defense. The reason centers don't play him man up IS DUE TO HIS ABILITY TO HIT A MIDRANGE SHOT! It has little to do with his ability and everything to do with them not wanting to leave the lane open. This is just like when we got rid of the productive playoff disappearing Van Horn for TT. Everyone was cheering except those of us who knew what TT was all about.
> 
> You must have a lot of faith in Sweetney to be giving him the 4 spot if we draft a center. Frankly I don't. I can't stand the fact that he's still not in shape. Guy still looks like he enjoys a six pack of doughnuts after everygame.


Wrong..We got bigger at the 2 guard,and we dont know what we did at the 4 until the season starts.If its Sweets,we got slightly shorter but much bigger..maybe fatter..Actually,we now have a 2 guard as JC got killed covering big 2's..Let me get this straight..The extra year on a 25 y.o is a big deal compared to a 4 year deal on a 32 y.o ??That makes alot of sense...Are you planning on playing in the 35 and over league??

You must be joking about KT's "ability "to hit the midrange shot..That is ALL he can do!!!!!!Its his only ability..You make it sound like he can do something else.Just say it..He has no interior game..No post moves whatsoever.Every shot is a jumper or a fadeaway..Thats why PF cover him.You could put a point guard on him and he still wouldnt post him up..Cmon,open your eyes...

I agree with you 100% on Sweets being in shape.If hes not,let him rot on the bench.But lets be serious.You and i are not brain surgeons.We can see that Sweets is a tub of lard.Do you really think Zeke traded away our starting 5,our best post defender without checking up and seeing if tubby was in shape??
I may be giving Zeke to much credit,but I have to believe that he put some thought on replacing KT before he traded him.It may be Frye,kwame or Bynum,but there is a plan..

I think you miss my point..KT may have been our best all around player..But he is a complimentary player...Like Naz is to Duncan...We need a stud in the frontcourt.An in shape Sweetney may be that...KT will never ever be....


----------



## truth

Are you pissssed because we traded KT or are you pisssed because we got Q in return??

I think you need to come to grips with the fact that a 32 y.o PF with no interior game gets you a Drew gooden....

If you just love KT,i understand your frustration...

As for Q,he will likely be our starting 2...


----------



## ChosenFEW

heres something i got from another site......

*
"The nice news about the Knicks' inevitable swap of Kurt Thomas for Quentin Richardson (and a conditional first round pick) is it doesn't alter Isiah Thomas' "genius plan" to pursue the Grizzlies' Pau Gasol using Memphis native Penny Hardaway as bait. On second thought, it occurs to me the Grizzlies, who've lost $40 million since Michael Heisley bought the team five years ago, might've already turned down Thomas' mouthwatering offer; I seem to recall reading Jerry West decided to keep his team's borderline franchise forward despite his six-year near max contract rather than face the pandemonium Penny's proud homecoming would provoke." New York Post *


getting Q is just for trade bait......kurt was getting old and his value was decreasing year after year


----------



## truth

ChosenFEW said:


> getting Q is just for trade bait......kurt was getting old and his value was decreasing year after year


i agree Kurt was getting old,but after reading the posts on the suns board,i dont think we trade Q..He was loveed and respected by all his teamates and was a very vocal reader.He completley fit in and accepted his role.Hes a terrific post up player,very physical and plays tough D.the Suns gave him the green light to launch 3's and discoraged him from posting up....

there wasnt one disparaging word from any of the posters...he was a victim of keeping JJ and needing "toughness"...

Its interesting that the people that watch him day in and day out love his attitude.leadership and game,and guys from NY are bashing him before he even gets here...We needed a big physical guard and we got exactly that...


----------



## malik959

I must say as a 6'7 sg Richardson had 9 double doubles this year and was actually very consistant. Can we say the same thing about any of our current players? Q. is an exciting player to watch and was a major part of a playoff team. He brings a winning attitude, he can take over a game on any given night, he has a low turnover ratio, unlike our other gaurds he actually plays D, and we freaken get a draft pick to go along with him. We finally got rid of that foul prone K. Thomas and I'm very happy.

Ten reasons why I like this trade:

1) We needed a s.g with H2O exiting.
2) Kurt wasn't getting any younger.
3) we add more D. to our gaurd rotation
4) Were plannig on getting a younger, bigger player in this draft.
5) It's possible to get Two big men that could become better than K.T(Turiaf) and Nazi (Frye or Taft)
6) We finally get younger with the Exits of K.T & H2O.
7) Now we can run more.
8) I'd Rather have a shooting gaurd than a shooting forward.
9) I've been waiting to trade K.T for years.
10) K.T was foul prone so he was never there for us.
11) K.T had nooooo Inside game.
12) K.T was overated on D.
13) a 6'9 forward that couldn't even dunk
14) No more crazy eyes
15) K.T, never loved ya, never liked ya, see ya, and good ridance.

O.K that was 15, but you got my point. I don't think we could have gotten any better for Kurt.


----------



## malik959

One more thing. Teams are looking to rid themselves of their bad contracts, so that adds on to the free agent list. Players that weren't jack now become valuble players with lower contracts. Can we posibly pick up Ratliff?


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## truth

> O.K that was 15, but you got my point. I don't think we could have gotten any better for Kurt.


thats 16 reasons...i like them all


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## ChosenFEW

i agree with both of you.....just a year ago he was considered a top free agent in the market and a year later people say he's trash?!?!?i dont get it


----------



## Da Grinch

truth said:


> D,my issue with Marbury is really his leadership abilities..It appears that wherever he goes,harmony ceases to exist and its no mere coincidence.Minny,NJ,Phoenix and NY.Ever wonder why a guy as talented as him has bounced around??
> 
> Look at the Spurs.Great team,humble,classy and guys with character who are supportive of one another..It starts with TD
> 
> Same with the Suns...It starts with Nash
> 
> The Knicks...it starts and ends with marbury...He had an axe to grind with KVH,couldnt stand KT,non supportive of Herb...D,hes toxic and its very hard to win with him as the "leader"...


i dont know if i'd agree with all these teams being harmonious and marbury comes and breaks it up.

was minny really a harmonious team before stephon? ...i remember quite a bit of dissension before him ...with laetner having issues with garnett and them being a bad team ...the 1st time they ever made the playoffs was marbury's rookie year.

the nets had their best season with marbury since before drazen was alive ...then the injuries came.

the knicks went 25-22 with him their 1st year and allan gets hurt never comes back really and the team goes down the tubes.

if anything an argument can be made after initial success things can go downhill...although things never went downhill in minny he just wanted to leave .

i dont see why he's seen as a leader everywhere he goes if he has no leadership abilities ...my guess he does in fact have them. If not why would he instantly be the leader of the t'wolves as a rookie at age 20 ?...with garnett on the roster its not talent and there are plenty of teams where the leader is someone who isn't the point guard or not their best player. is rafer the leader of the raptor? ..payton on the celts? my guess is no. AI is that guy on the 76ers ..but he was also their leader when he was their 2 guard. Kidd is obviously the leader of the nets even though carter was their best player last season. what makes a guy looked on as a leader is mostly their personality and how they carry themselves ...if people look at marbury as a leader chances are there are good reasons for it ...not bad.

sometimes people bounce around ...chauncy billups has been on 5 teams in 1 less year than marbury...it doesn't mean there is some sort of personality defect in billups ...it certainly helps that he is on a team now with leaders everywhere ...and yet there he is now considered a leader there when he really wasn't anywhere else.


----------



## truth

Billups was a major bust until Brown got ahold of him...Marbury has been great on the court since he stepped on it..You can blame Minny on immaturity..NJ,I am not so sure about..I dont think there were any going away parties for him when he left Phoenix....

We know KT couldnt stand him..Rumor has it Wilkens wanted Marbury gone as well..I dont think Herb is crazy about him either..


----------



## Da Grinch

truth said:


> Billups was a major bust until Brown got ahold of him...Marbury has been great on the court since he stepped on it..You can blame Minny on immaturity..NJ,I am not so sure about..I dont think there were any going away parties for him when he left Phoenix....
> 
> We know KT couldnt stand him..Rumor has it Wilkens wanted Marbury gone as well..I dont think Herb is crazy about him either..


billups was good enough when he left minny for dumars to throw money at him and i dont think there has been all that much of a change from his 1st season before brown to the brown years(his avg. are somewhat close) ...i think its more of a case of him simply turning the corner in his career .

also i'm not saying marbury is miss congeniality but there is a real habit of making him out to be some sort of cancerous effect on a team. something i believe if not overblown is something that may be flat out wrong.

the knicks were not a better team before him(.449 winning % since his arrival...the knicks were .400 at the time of his trade and .408 the previous 2 seasons) ...and really no team except the suns were , every team he was traded to or drafted by except those suns were instantly better for his presence .

marbury's biggest crime that i can see is that people see how good he is and pay through the nose to get him which improves the team he leaves even more.

and if the end result of wilkens kurt and herb not liking him is larry brown(or even bill lambeer) and Q I'll take it and i think most people would agree....although none have ever said publicly and only kurt's feeling are really reported supportedly with herb and lenny having nothing but positive things to say about him.


----------



## truth

D,we both agree they guy is talented,but he sure is traded alot for a guy with his numbers...The guy walked into the league producing and living up to the hype..I cant think of another player like that who has bounced around as much...

There is something very odd about that


----------



## Weasel

Knicks Want Assurance on Richardson's Health 



> The Knicks had agreed to deal Thomas, their sturdy power forward, to the Phoenix Suns for the swingman Quentin Richardson and a first-round draft pick. The trade stalled when the Suns failed to furnish insurance papers on Richardson, specifically in regard to a back injury he sustained while playing for the Los Angeles Clippers.





> The Knicks were still awaiting the insurance paperwork yesterday, and team officials indicated that they did not expect the deal to be consummated this weekend. If the paperwork is not provided, it is likely the deal will be canceled.


----------



## Knicksfan3

Weasel said:


> Knicks Want Assurance on Richardson's Health



Thats some good info right there. I am happy that they are making sure that Q Rich is gonna be 100 % healthy cause we don't need another injury prone SG like we have had for the last few years. I think he'll check out fine and the trade will be done early next week.


----------



## malik959

You know it kills me to see how Suns fans say how shocked they were about losing Q. and how greatly missed he well be. Can we say the same about Thomas? Well he be missed? Has he ever really helped this team to a winning season? 
http://www.basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?t=177170


----------



## urwhatueati8god

Knicksfan3 said:


> Thats some good info right there. I am happy that they are making sure that Q Rich is gonna be 100 % healthy cause we don't need another injury prone SG like we have had for the last few years. I think he'll check out fine and the trade will be done early next week.


Not to mention the Suns have screwed us over with injury plagued players before.


----------



## Weasel

http://www.newsday.com/sports/printedition/ny-spknix274321921jun27,0,1931786.story?coll=ny-sports-print 



> If Quentin Richardson passes his physical today, thus resolving insurance concerns about his back, it's likely the Knicks' trade sending power forward Kurt Thomas to Phoenix for Richardson and a future first-round draft choice will become official.





> With the NBA draft looming tomorrow, it's uncertain whether the Knicks will hold a news conference or wait to introduce Richardson with their rookies on Wednesday. The draft choice the Knicks get in the deal is expected to be a late first-round pick in 2007 or later because it's protected beyond the lottery.


----------



## Kekai

Anyone know when we get the results?


----------



## The True Essence

^^^the trade should be officially announced after tomorrow. nothing really isnt official in trades until the draft starts


----------



## Biggestfanoftheknicks

Some of you guys are smoking crack. Q-rich isn't a shooter, he sure as hell isn't consistent never have been never will be. I mean seriously do you guys even know who he is? 

The best he was EVER going to play was in Phoenix. It will all be downhill from there. The first time he sees a double team many of your hearts are going to drop.


I like this board, but people get a god damn clue, we didn't pick up anyone super talented or helpful. We picked up a younger guy with a longer contract. That's it. Kurt Thomas was more valuable and a better player. You seriously cannot argue this, I mean Joe Johnson is replacing Q-rich. Think about that.

We are getting a player who is less valuable, talented, and consistent than Joe Freakin Johnson.

Stop calling him a shooter. He is a terrible shooter, he has never shot abovre 40% fg. He is an adequate 3 point shooter at best. I don't know why everyone is so excited I can only imagine it is due to the fact that he is relatively unknown, but you people need to get with the program. Q-rich is not a good player.


I'm flabergasted by the term Shooter and Q-rich in the same sentence that doesn't contain words like is not or cannot be.

Let the love fest continue but come fall those of you who think this guy is going to make us better, is a " shooter" or is " consistent" are going to be sorely let down. I mean Tim Thomas let down.


----------



## truth

> I mean Joe Johnson is replacing Q-rich. Think about that.
> 
> We are getting a player who is less valuable, talented, and consistent than Joe Freakin Johnson.


you may be right on Q,no pun intended,but do you have any idea how good Joe Johnson is?Do you know what kind of contract hes going to sign??

The guy is super talented...I dont think you have seen the Suns play


----------



## Weasel

Suns-Knicks trade may be in trouble 



> The trade is believed to be in trouble because of questions about the insurability of Richardson's contract. Richardson struggled with back problems at times when he played for the Los Angeles Clippers.


----------



## Biggestfanoftheknicks

truth said:


> you may be right on Q,no pun intended,but do you have any idea how good Joe Johnson is?Do you know what kind of contract hes going to sign??
> 
> The guy is super talented...I dont think you have seen the Suns play


JJ is talented. He is not at this point very consistent. Read the whole sentence. Think about it.


----------



## truth

> You seriously cannot argue this, I mean Joe Johnson is replacing Q-rich. Think about that.
> 
> We are getting a player who is less valuable, talented, and consistent than Joe Freakin Johnson.


Do yourself a big favor..Go to the Suns board and see how much they value him..Or just take a look at his numbers..

Hes 6'7',230 has a great handle...Avg 17 ppg last year,*shot 46% from the floor and 48% from 3.*Grabbed 5 rpg and 3.5 apg...And he shoots 75% from the foul line..

Joe Johnson would replace nearly every 2 guard in the league...And the guy is consistent if nothing else


----------



## Biggestfanoftheknicks

truth said:


> Do yourself a big favor..Go to the Suns board and see how much they value him..Or just take a look at his numbers..
> 
> Hes 6'7',230 has a great handle...Avg 17 ppg last year,*shot 46% from the floor and 48% from 3.*Grabbed 5 rpg and 3.5 apg...And he shoots 75% from the foul line..
> 
> Joe Johnson would replace nearly every 2 guard in the league...And the guy is consistent if nothing else


Wrong once again. They value johnson for his potential. He had a great year this year. That is great. Prior to this his season where filled with inconsistency. Anyone who has watched him knows this. I mean seriously you don't know anything about him if you don't know this. He'll shoot 50% one game and 30% the next. He had a good year, but prior to this his years have been filled with inconsistent performances tempered by flashes of greatness.


Even this year it was a bit up and down for JJ

11/19
Lal
W 107-102	38	6-17	.353

11/21
@Lac
W 122-111	42	7-13	.538

11/22
Chi
W 100-82	39	4-11	.364	

11/24
Mil
W 111-104	42	4-14	.286	

11/26
Nor
W 95-86	44	5-15	.333	

11/30
@Uth
W 115-102	39	6-13	.462	


12/1
Cle
W 120-101	34	8-14	.571


12/3
Min
L 97-93	42	2-11	.182


12/5
@Por
W 121-99	37	6-11	.545	


Get the picture? They're saying that he is ready to step up and that they don't even need Q as a back up. That JJ despite his inconsistency is worth more to them at 30 minutes a game than Q is.


And since when the hell is shooting 75% from the foul line worth anything for a two guard? Are you high? That's his biggest weakness why would you even bring that up? He shot higher in the 02-03 season sake? Get your head checked man that's a horrible argument at best.


----------



## truth

why dont you go into the Suns board and run your mouth there and see how many people agree with you...You were the one who compared JJ and Q..Its a ridiculous statement and other than JJ shooting poorly from behind the arc 2year,he had a 2 great seasons...


Your quote of



> I mean Joe Johnson is replacing Q-rich. Think about that.
> 
> We are getting a player who is less valuable, talented, and consistent than Joe Freakin Johnson.


is just plain dumb....you may not think much of Joe Freakin Johnson,but everyone else does,mainly the Coangelos..Did you expect to land a JJ for Kurt thomas????


----------



## Biggestfanoftheknicks

truth said:


> why dont you go into the Suns board and run your mouth there and see how many people agree with you...You were the one who compared JJ and Q..Its a ridiculous statement and other than JJ shooting poorly from behind the arc last year,he had a great season...
> 
> This is his second great year,and he will be payed $$$$$$$$$$ for it...
> 
> Your quote of
> 
> 
> 
> is just plain dumb....you may not think much of Joe Freakin Johnson,but everyone else does,mainly the Coangelos..Think about that



What the hell are you babbling about? You the one running your mouth not responding to anything! Stop with your whining nonsense and put up a decent argument for a change.
Stop putting words in my mouth fool, no one compared the two, how the hell did you read that? You must have a poor education. Try again One is ... COMPLETELY REPLACING the other.

I'll break it down for you real easy so you won't get confused. Joe Johnson. Who had. His. First. Good. Season. Which. Was. Still. A. Bit. Inconsistent. Is. Worth. More. To. The. Suns. Then. Q-rich. Furthermore. Q-rich. is. so. worthless. to. the. suns. that. they. would. trade. him. for. a. backup.player. ( focus I know it's hard but focus). look.at.this.from.a.suns.perspective.you.goon.they.don't.really.need.kurt.thomas.one.of.their.weakest.positions.was.at.the.2.and.they.just.traded.away.a.guy.who.played.30.minutes.a.game. at.that.spot.

Read this three times, in order to aid comprehension. You seem to be kinda slow or just arguing for the sake of arguing.


----------



## truth

Biggestfanoftheknicks said:


> *Stop putting words in my mouth fool, no one compared the two, how the hell did you read that?* You must have a poor education. Try again One is ... COMPLETELY REPLACING the other.
> 
> *I'll break it down for you real easy so you won't get confused. Joe Johnson. Who had. His. First. Good. Season. Which. Was. Still. A. Bit. Inconsistent*
> 
> . Is. Worth. More. To. The. Suns. Then. Q-rich. Furthermore. Q-rich. is. so. worthless. to. the. suns. that. they. would. trade. him. for. a. backup.player. ( focus I know it's hard but focus). look.at.this.from.a.suns.perspective.you.goon.they.don't.really.need.kurt.thomas.one.of.their.weakest.positions.was.at.the.2.and.they.just.traded.away.a.guy.who.played.30.minutes.a.game. at.that.spot.


No One compare the 2??Let me teach you something.When you use the word *THAN* a relative term,you are making a comparison.did you not say



> You seriously cannot argue this, I mean Joe Johnson is replacing Q-rich. Think about that.
> *We are getting a player who is less valuable, talented, and consistent than Joe Freakin Johnson*


.

thats not a direct comparison??

JJ had his second great season,not first and if you think last year he was inconsistent,you have either never watched him play,or are just clueless.He had a monster year last year and was anything but inconsistent..

They dont need Kurt???????they dont need interior help and toughness??Dude,i suggest you wake up and figure out what the Suns need....You really have no clue to what you are talking about..2 is the suns weakest position???
They have a future all star in JJ and thats their weakest position???

Do you ever read what you write??


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## Biggestfanoftheknicks

truth said:


> No One compare the 2??Let me teach you something.When you use the word *THAN* a relative term,you are making a comparison.did you not say
> 
> .
> 
> thats not a direct comparison??


Ahhahahhaa. Oh man do you see what you did there? You don't what relative or direct mean do you ? Hahaha, you can't use than as a relative term you goof, its not an adjective, its a conjunction . hahah thanks for the laughs though. Funny stuff.

In regards to the post, nowhere did I make a direct comparision. I just stated one player taking over another's job. 

Let me offer you some education. When you make a direct comparision you take two subjects and list quantifiable and similiar criteria that both possess in order to evaluate both of them to a standard. See, its not so hard.





truth said:


> JJ had his second great season,not first and if you think last year he was inconsistent,you have either never watched him play,or are just clueless.He had a monster year last year and was anything but inconsistent..
> 
> They dont need Kurt???????they dont need interior help and toughness??


Hahhaa dude, Amare stoudamaire plays for the freakin team. What the hell hahaha, should the get a back up pointguard to help with passing too? Hahha dude I gotta play you in a virtual league you're clueless. Phoenix was the best rebounding team in the league for defensive rebounding this year and total rebounds alone! They were top 10 in blocked shots averaged per game!!! What are you nuts? They need a minor upgrade at center at best!


Toughness help? Do you even know who Amare is? You think Voskul isn't tough? You think Amare, and The Matrix aren't tough? What are you blind?



truth said:


> Dude,i suggest you wake up and figure out what the Suns need....You really have no clue to what you are talking about..2 is the suns weakest position???
> They have a future all star in JJ and thats their weakest position???


Hahah dude, they have JJ,Q, now they have JJ, if you think he's consistent that's fine, you probably a Tim Thomas fan anyway, but the reality of the situtaion is that when JJ is having one of those 4-12 30mpg nights Walter Mccarty or Jim Jackson just isn't a suitable backup.



truth said:


> Do you ever read what you write??


Yes. Its obviously above your comprehension level though.


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## Weasel

Alright enough of the insults. You can debate all you want but don't insult each other.


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## truth

Biggestfanoftheknicks said:


> Hahhaa dude, Amare stoudamaire plays for the freakin team. What the hell hahaha, should the get a back up pointguard to help with passing too? Hahha dude I gotta play you in a virtual league you're clueless. Phoenix was the best rebounding team in the league for defensive rebounding this year and total rebounds alone! They were top 10 in blocked shots averaged per game!!! What are you nuts? They need a minor upgrade at center at best!
> 
> Toughness help? Do you even know who Amare is? You think Voskul isn't tough? You think Amare, and The Matrix aren't tough? What are you blind?
> 
> Hahah dude, they have JJ,Q, now they have JJ, if you think he's consistent that's fine, you probably a Tim Thomas fan anyway, but the reality of the situtaion is that when JJ is having one of those 4-12 30mpg nights Walter Mccarty or Jim Jackson just isn't a suitable backup.


If you dont think a 6'7" guard with bgreat handles who shot clse to 50% from the field and from 3 is consistent,then you have redefined consistency..

You are arguing with yourself as it is you who brought Joe Johnson into the discussion..

Voskul????????Tough at what?Cant be basketball as he didnt play ONE MINUTE against the Spurs...Why on earth would you bring him up??

Yeah,a minor upgrade at center..Are you joking???You like steven Hunter? You must,because you brought up Voskhul who hasnt gotten off the bench yet...

Shawn marion was a horrible matchup at the 4 against the Spurs..

I really think you should bring up these points in the Suns forum...

It should be enlightening...jake Voshkul????


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## truth

Weasel said:


> Alright enough of the insults. You can debate all you want but don't insult each other.





> And since when the hell is shooting 75% from the foul line worth anything for a two guard? Are you high? That's his biggest weakness why would you even bring that up? He shot higher in the 02-03 season sake? Get your head checked man that's a horrible argument at best


I believe it all started with this post...

I have no problem with him


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## Biggestfanoftheknicks

truth said:


> If you dont think a 6'7" guard with bgreat handles who shot clse to 50% from the field and from 3 is consistent,then you have redefined consistency..
> 
> You are arguing with yourself as it is you who brought Joe Johnson into the discussion..
> 
> Voskul????????Tough at what?Cant be basketball as he didnt play ONE MINUTE against the Spurs...Why on earth would you bring him up??
> 
> Yeah,a minor upgrade at center..Are you joking???You like steven Hunter? You must,because you brought up Voskhul who hasnt gotten off the bench yet...
> 
> Shawn marion was a horrible matchup at the 4 against the Spurs..
> 
> I really think you should bring up these points in the Suns forum...
> 
> It should be enlightening...jake Voshkul????



Uh shawn marion doesn't play the 4... do you even know who he is?


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## truth

Biggestfanoftheknicks said:


> Uh shawn marion doesn't play the 4... do you even know who he is?





Biggestfanoftheknicks said:


> Uh shawn marion doesn't play the 4... do you even know who he is?



WOW,case closed..Now i know you have NEVER watched the Suns play..of course Marion plays the 4..They shifted him there this year..Admit it,you never watched the Suns play..

Why do you think they shifted Amare to the 5???

So they could have 

Nash PG
JJ SG
Amare C
Marion PF
Q SF


Seriously man,why do you argue and talk about stuff when you have never seen the team play??? 

Ask anyone who played the 4 for Phoenix this year.Marion plays the 4..Thats why they want KT..I wont discuss this with you any more as its obvious you havent a clue


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## MichaelOFAZ

*Re: No clue what Zeke is doing...*

Just weighing in here ...

First of all, I agree that Zeke has no idea what he's doing. But here's the way I think things will pan out.

1. Houston and Hardaway will be dumped purely to avoid the luxury tax hit (ala Michael Finley)

2. Q will split time between SG and SF. Crawford will start as the off guard. Robinson will obviously serve as back up PG. 

3. That will leave the Knicks with one of the smallest and worst front lines in the NBA. It will take Frye and Lee at least a full season to get aclimated to the NBA. And even then, it's hard to tell if Frye will turn out to be the Marcus Camby (without the injuries) or the next Loron Woods. Or if David Lee turns out to be the next Tom Gugliotta (without the injuries) or the next Keith Lee. Interior defense and rebounding will be non-existent. That won't matter, as I suspect the plan is to run a run-and-gun offense like Phoenix did this year. Aside from the backcourt, the bench will be very weak. 

Don't be surprised if Marbury is traded by next season's trading deadline either. What? Think I am crazy. My contention is that Crawford is better suited to be a PG, than a SG and plays a lot like Marbury (a flashy scoring PG) ... so why have two? Marbury is more marketable, so I wouldn't be surprised if he was the one to go (even though he's a NY favorite).


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## truth

*Re: No clue what Zeke is doing...*



MichaelOFAZ said:


> Just weighing in here ...
> 
> First of all, I agree that Zeke has no idea what he's doing. But here's the way I think things will pan out.
> 
> 1. Houston and Hardaway will be dumped purely to avoid the luxury tax hit (ala Michael Finley)
> 
> 2. Q will split time between SG and SF. Crawford will start as the off guard. Robinson will obviously serve as back up PG.
> 
> 3. That will leave the Knicks with one of the smallest and worst front lines in the NBA. It will take Frye and Lee at least a full season to get aclimated to the NBA. And even then, it's hard to tell if Frye will turn out to be the Marcus Camby (without the injuries) or the next Loron Woods. Or if David Lee turns out to be the next Tom Gugliotta (without the injuries) or the next Keith Lee. Interior defense and rebounding will be non-existent. That won't matter, as I suspect the plan is to run a run-and-gun offense like Phoenix did this year. Aside from the backcourt, the bench will be very weak.
> 
> Don't be surprised if Marbury is traded by next season's trading deadline either. What? Think I am crazy. My contention is that Crawford is better suited to be a PG, than a SG and plays a lot like Marbury (a flashy scoring PG) ... so why have two? Marbury is more marketable, so I wouldn't be surprised if he was the one to go (even though he's a NY favorite).


I think H20 will be dumper to avoid luxury taxes...Penny will have to be traded..

I think Q will start at the shooting guard as we really need some rebounding help..JC will come off the bench..

Frye should be starting from day 1..Hes about Cambys size,but 25 pounds heavier..I dont think hes as athletic as Camby,but a much better shooter.The front line wont be that small.Frye at 6'11,TT at 6'10' and Sweetney at 6'8'..

You left out the most important piece..Coach


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## MPK

I am not really sure how a bench consisting of QRich, Robinson, Ariza, Malik Rose, and Mo Taylor can be considered "very weak"...

That is assuming that the starting frontline is Channing, Sweetney and TT...

While I agree that the Isiah's roster construction has been erratic (at best) the bench (as it is currently constituted) looks closer to a plus than a minus...


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## truth

MPK said:


> I am not really sure how a bench consisting of QRich, Robinson, Ariza, Malik Rose, and Mo Taylor can be considered "very weak"...
> 
> That is assuming that the starting frontline is Channing, Sweetney and TT...
> 
> While I agree that the Isiah's roster construction has been erratic (at best) the bench (as it is currently constituted) looks closer to a plus than a minus...


Sweetney better come into camp in serious shape....

I think Marbury is going to have a great year..All the bigs have great hands and can finish


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## alphadog

*I wouldn't get to settled yet..*

I'm sure more moves will be forthcoming. We are still small up front and we desperately need a shooter. Does Granger signal the moving of Artest? Do we get Kwame? K and Frye would be nice. We would go from one of the smallest to one of the biggest. Atlanta needs 3 SFs? People will be getting new addresses......


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## Biggestfanoftheknicks

truth said:


> WOW,case closed..Now i know you have NEVER watched the Suns play..of course Marion plays the 4..They shifted him there this year..Admit it,you never watched the Suns play..
> 
> Why do you think they shifted Amare to the 5???
> 
> So they could have
> 
> Nash PG
> JJ SG
> Amare C
> Marion PF
> Q SF
> 
> 
> Seriously man,why do you argue and talk about stuff when you have never seen the team play???
> 
> Ask anyone who played the 4 for Phoenix this year.Marion plays the 4..Thats why they want KT..I wont discuss this with you any more as its obvious you havent a clue



That was one of the line ups they used. Maybe in the 3 or so games you saw but, you know if you don't know that D'antoni loves to change his line up around then you're clueless.

Yet somehow Jim Jackson averaged 30 minutes a game, and Voskul and Hunter averaged almost 25 minutes per game combined. Hell Barbosa averaged 17 minutes a game and quite a few minutes in the Dallas series.

Keep babbling about all the suns games you saw, it's obvious you just watched the playoffs. I'm done with you you can respond if you like but it's obvious there is no getting through to you on this topic, and you clearly have no idea what you are talking about. I have no idea what sport you've been watching but it sure isn't b-ball.


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## dcrono3

At the very least, we can trade Penny this season. He should get A LOT of interest with that 15.75 million expiring contract of his. Of course, I'm thinking more of getting players that total 15.75 million, not one overpaid player like Penny, TT, most of the Knicks, etc. Houston is close to 100% gone.

I think the starting lineup (right now) will be Marbury, Crawford, Richardson, Sweetney, Frye. TT will get close to the amount of minutes Richardson gets though, and Sweetney won't get that many minutes as he will share with the horde of PFs the Knicks have. Frye has to start, since the knicks currently own no player other than him that could start as C. If only we got Taft...wishful thinking. 

Richardson starts over TT because even though he is shorter, he is a better rebounder and post player.


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## dcrono3

Biggestfanoftheknicks said:


> That was one of the line ups they used. Maybe in the 3 or so games you saw but, you know if you don't know that D'antoni loves to change his line up around then you're clueless.
> 
> Yet somehow Jim Jackson averaged 30 minutes a game, and Voskul and Hunter averaged almost 25 minutes per game combined. Hell Barbosa averaged 17 minutes a game and quite a few minutes in the Dallas series.
> 
> Keep babbling about all the suns games you saw, it's obvious you just watched the playoffs. I'm done with you you can respond if you like but it's obvious there is no getting through to you on this topic, and you clearly have no idea what you are talking about. I have no idea what sport you've been watching but it sure isn't b-ball.


Actually, I'm pretty sure Truth is right on this account. 

First, when you have almost every article about the Richardson/KT trade talking about how the Suns got KT so "Marion could shift back to the small forward" http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2096710 
the signs point to the fact that Marion was playing PF. 

Also, there is one killer piece of evidence. The fact that Amare started 80 games, Marion started 81, Joe Johnson started 82, Nash started 75, and Richarson started 78 shows that almost every game had those 5 as the starting 5. With that lineup, Marion is no doubt the PF. 

The Suns also happen to be the team that least utilizes their bench. Their starters always play a lot of minutes and their bench players rarely play. It wasn't uncommon last season to see all Suns starters play 40 minutes a game. Sure, Hunter, Jackson, and Barbosa played decent minutes, but Barbosa was basically in when Nash was out, Jackson taking the spot of Johnson or Richardson, and Hunter for Amare or Marion. It wasn't always like that, but for the vast majority it was. Therefore, Marion was almost always forced to play the 4. If you don't believe it, go ask the question on the Suns board. I'm sure you will get an answer.


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## truth

Biggestfanoftheknicks said:


> That was one of the line ups they used. Maybe in the 3 or so games you saw but, you know if you don't know that D'antoni loves to change his line up around then you're clueless.
> 
> Yet somehow Jim Jackson averaged 30 minutes a game, and Voskul and Hunter averaged almost 25 minutes per game combined.


Funny you should bring up Dantoni...Perhaps you would enhoy this quote



> “We’re happy with moving forward,” Head Coach Mike D’Antoni said. “We have Kurt Thomas now. We hate to lose Q. He was a big part of what we did, but we’re trying to get a little bit better, bigger and stronger. And I think we did that.
> “It gives us a lot more options. We have someone a lot bigger and stronger than Amaré (Stoudemire). We also can still play small. *Shawn can go back to playing the three and still play some four.* I think we’re getting better.”


Shawn can go back to playing the 3.Hmmmm...Of course you also know more than the coach..


Perhaps you dont agree with the coach...ESPN views things differently than you as well



> Depth Chart
> Shawn Marion Starting Power Forward
> 19.4 PPG, 11.3 RPG, 1.9 APG
> POS STARTER BACKUP
> PG Steve Nash Leandro Barbosa
> SG Joe Johnson
> SF Jim Jackson Walter McCarty
> PF Shawn Marion Steven Hunter
> C Amare Stoudemire Jake Voskuhl





> Actually, I'm pretty sure Truth is right on this account.


Of course I am correct...The Suns shifted Amare to center and Marion to the 4..Its not debatable...Its a fact. I would think the coach of the Suns should know what position Marion plays..



> If you don't believe it, go ask the question on the Suns board. I'm sure you will get an answer


.

And make sure you ask for the 2004-2005 season.The switch was made to utilise Nash,Amare,Q,JJ and Marion at the same time....


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## Knicksfan3

Biggestfanoftheknicks said:


> That was one of the line ups they used. Maybe in the 3 or so games you saw but, you know if you don't know that D'antoni loves to change his line up around then you're clueless.
> 
> Yet somehow Jim Jackson averaged 30 minutes a game, and Voskul and Hunter averaged almost 25 minutes per game combined. Hell Barbosa averaged 17 minutes a game and quite a few minutes in the Dallas series.
> Keep babbling about all the suns games you saw, it's obvious you just watched the playoffs. I'm done with you you can respond if you like but it's obvious there is no getting through to you on this topic, and you clearly have no idea what you are talking about. I have no idea what sport you've been watching but it sure isn't b-ball.


I can't believe that this issue is even being debated and brought up. If you watched any Suns games this year on ESPN or NBA TV, like myself and others did, you would realize that Shawn Marion played the 4 pretty much the entire season. They played a smaller lineup with Amare at Center to fit their fast paced game. Their lineup for almost every game was:

PG: Nash
SG: JJ
SF: Q Rich
PF: Marion
C: Amare

I don't understand how you can tell someone that they know nothing about basketball when you are the one who is completely wrong...


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## truth

Knicksfan3 said:


> I can't believe that this issue is even being debated and brought up. If you watched any Suns games this year on ESPN or NBA TV, like myself and others did, you would realize that Shawn Marion played the 4 pretty much the entire season. They played a smaller lineup with Amare at Center to fit their fast paced game. Their lineup for almost every game was:
> 
> PG: Nash
> SG: JJ
> SF: Q Rich
> PF: Marion
> C: Amare
> 
> I don't understand how you can tell someone that they know nothing about basketball when you are the one who is completely wrong...


Its really unbelievable..Its one thing to be wrong,its another to be wrong and obnoxious


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## cimalee

Knicks got away with robbery on this trade . I really like Q rich going to the knicks and Nate Robinson also


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## truth

cimalee said:


> Knicks got away with robbery on this trade . I really like Q rich going to the knicks and Nate Robinson also


i hope you are right


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## Da Grinch

http://www.nj.com/knicks/ledger/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/1120197078135780.xml&coll=1



> "That's the very exciting part about everything is you get a chance to turn something around and be a part of something special," Richardson said. "I mean, that was something special there, too, but this'll be something special."
> 
> Richardson said he is looking forward to being able to play a more complete game than the run-and-jack-up 3-pointers style he played in Phoenix.
> 
> "That was a part you had to play if you wanted to fit in," Richardson said. "If anything, it showed my willingness to accept a role and be a team player, because I have a lot more in my game to offer than just turning out and shooting 3s."


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## kamego

This trade really interested me. As a DePaul guy of course I'm a huge fan of Q but I was shocked to see him get traded. I understand why the Suns wanted a big man though so it made sense. Q will help the Knicks but losing Thomas does hurt. The knicks now have an utlra talented 1,2, and 3 but I don't know how they will mesh on the court.


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## truth

kamego said:


> This trade really interested me. As a DePaul guy of course I'm a huge fan of Q but I was shocked to see him get traded. I understand why the Suns wanted a big man though so it made sense. Q will help the Knicks but losing Thomas does hurt. The knicks now have an utlra talented 1,2, and 3 but I don't know how they will mesh on the court.



with the right coach any and everything is possible...


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