# Garnett deal almost done?



## chocolove (Apr 4, 2006)

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/7073708?MSNHPHMA



> According to sources, the current deal on the table has the 6-foot-11 Garnett heading to Boston and the Celtics dealing away Al Jefferson, Theo Ratliff's hefty expiring contract and Rajon Rondo. There may also be other players and draft picks involved.


Boston would be instant contenders and could mean Raps dont repeat as Atlantic division champs.


----------



## Bubbles (Nov 12, 2005)

Yeah, this is like the 3rd KG thread I have seen posted, nothing new here.


----------



## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

Espn claiming the deal hinges on garrnet wiliness to leave if this happens we would pressed just to make the playoffs


----------



## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

Why would they trade AJ when KG can opt out after the season ends?


----------



## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

Anyways, a Garnett-Pierce-Allen threesome, even without a point guard, would make the AD pretty tough for the next couple of years.


----------



## undefined_playa (Oct 23, 2005)

Good deal for both sides...but I like it for Minny bc. they get 2 very good young players that greatly increase their future talent, while Boston gets 2-3 years max of possible 2nd or 3rd round playoff exits.


----------



## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

chocolove said:


> http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/7073708?MSNHPHMA
> 
> 
> 
> Boston would be instant contenders and could mean Raps dont repeat as Atlantic division champs.



KG, Pierce, Ray and 5 guys named "Who" does not make them a contending team. They're all over 30, will account for 60 million by the time KG gets his 5 year extension.

Don't get all caught up in the names. Better, but not contending.


----------



## shookem (Nov 1, 2005)

Damn, if this deal goes through Boston is looking ultra thin in the depth department.

One big injury to any of those three and the team could be in the lottery again.


----------



## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

speedythief said:


> Why would they trade AJ when KG can opt out after the season ends?


Um, he has to agree to an extension before it goes through. They wouldn't do it otherwise.


----------



## icehawk (May 30, 2003)

shookem said:


> Damn, if this deal goes through Boston is looking ultra thin in the depth department.
> 
> One big injury to any of those three and the team could be in the lottery again.


Maybe we can dump Juan Dixon on them :clap:


----------



## SickGame (Jan 23, 2006)

butr said:


> KG, Pierce, Ray and 5 guys named "Who" does not make them a contending team. They're all over 30, will account for 60 million by the time KG gets his 5 year extension.
> 
> Don't get all caught up in the names. Better, but not contending.


The Lakers won with Shaq and Kobe and 5 guys named "Who"
Allen, Pierce and Garnett can win you a championship, as long as the other guy step up and just don't screw up.
I'd be mostly concerned about touches and chemistry.


----------



## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

Dissonance19 said:


> Um, he has to agree to an extension before it goes through. They wouldn't do it otherwise.


Um, ok, that makes more sense, then.

I wonder if this trade would prompt New Jersey to deal Jefferson and Krstic for O'Neal?

A few weeks from now the AD could have four playoff teams out of five.


----------



## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

SickGame said:


> The Lakers won with Shaq and Kobe and 5 guys named "Who"
> Allen, Pierce and Garnett can win you a championship, as long as the other guy step up and just don't screw up.
> I'd be mostly concerned about touches and chemistry.


Robert Horry and Ron Harper have won championships as key role players on multiple teams, including that team.

They also had better role players in Derek Fisher, Rick Fox and for a time, Glenn Rice.

Brian Scalabrine & Kendrick Perkins & Rondo don't qualify.


----------



## ballocks (May 15, 2003)

if ainge got this deal done i'd be impressed. they'd be mortgaging the future for the now but they've been doing that anyway. might as well go all the way. no point in sitting on the fence.

garnett's legacy, meanwhile, would be at stake immediately. he's had more than enough apologists to excuse him from the mediocrity achieved in minnesota, and he would have no choice but to accept his results (good or bad) if he found himself in boston playing alongside pierce and allen.

i don't believe this rumour, though. i think it's (again) much ado about nothing, but i guess we'll see. 

peace


----------



## nammer21 (Jul 29, 2004)

butr said:


> KG, Pierce, Ray and 5 guys named "Who" does not make them a contending team. They're all over 30, will account for 60 million by the time KG gets his 5 year extension.
> 
> Don't get all caught up in the names. Better, but not contending.


This instantly makes them the best team in the East. If Lebron and 4 scrubs can get to the finals, the holy trinity will easily dispose of anyone in the East.


----------



## narrator (Feb 11, 2006)

Apparently it's all but done (according to SI.com's front page). They're just working on the cap filler. Garnett's extension is something like 5 years/$125 million (not sure how that works: it seems higher than is allowed... maybe it's an extension to KG's gargantuan contract so different rules apply).

This thread is right: it kills the depth. Apparently the C's and their fans don't care, though. I suppose neither would I if I was in their position (like all of us were 2 years ago).

I'll hold off judgment until the trade's official.


----------



## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

Depth isn't that big of an issue when you have Pierce and Garnett who can both play 40 minutes, and make each other better in the process, supposing they stay healthy.

I don't see them including Rondo in the deal, they would be left without a point guard (literally).

I hope it isn't true, it would be scary to see the Raps back in the "also ran" race for the next two or three seasons.

(That being said, the increase in competition in the AD could make our team better in the long run)


----------



## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

narrator said:


> Apparently it's all but done (according to SI.com's front page). They're just working on the cap filler. Garnett's extension is something like 5 years/$125 million (not sure how that works: it seems higher than is allowed... maybe it's an extension to KG's gargantuan contract so different rules apply).


Yeah, I'm betting that the League offices are working frantically to make this deal happen. Could be a nice change of discussion from the officiating scandal.


----------



## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

Tsn is saying the deal is done so fellow rap fans are you hitting the panic button like I am right now?


----------



## billfindlay10 (Jan 24, 2003)

Mr_B said:


> Tsn is saying the deal is done so fellow rap fans are you hitting the panic button like I am right now?



Nope, not me. The Celts will be a very much improved team, but I feel our team make-up can compete and beat the Celtics with KG, PP, and Jesus. We will be coming into the second season with our core group, and that will pay off in the win total.


----------



## Onions Baby (Mar 12, 2007)

I agree with Bill. Our depth is much superior to that of the C's and we are still the best shooting team in the league so if we get hot no one can stop us.


----------



## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

Hell I welcome this deal. Bring it on.

So they are all over 30. They are all going to play 40+ mins due to depth issues and they are going to each play 75+ games, leading them to the ECF?

OK. Anyone spot the flaw? Who's the guy that will make the open shot? What happens if KG goes down? Who is going to rebound?

If we play them, we can run their geriatric asses into the ground.


----------



## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

I mean, its not good for us, or the Eastern Conference for that matter.

Now, we probably aren't winning the Atlantic.. But I don't really care, as long as we make it to the East Finals, or Semis.. I'm happy.


----------



## nammer21 (Jul 29, 2004)

butr said:


> Hell I welcome this deal. Bring it on.
> 
> So they are all over 30. They are all going to play 40+ mins due to depth issues and they are going to each play 75+ games, leading them to the ECF?
> 
> ...


Who cares if they have to play 40+ minutes? They all average around that for their careers. And you can easily spell any of the 3 for extended periods of time as any of those two on the floor at the same time is fine. Who cares if they're over 30? Garnett hasn't played less then 76 games in a season; Ray Allen averages 70-75 games a year (including last year, where Seattle benched his *** to get Durant) and Pierce has never played less then 75 games a season barring last years tank-fest. They are all elite top 20-25 (KG being top 5-7) who are still on top of there game. They have a 2-3 year (maybe four) window where they will maintain their level of play and as a result, Boston will be the prohibitive favorite in the East. Depth is overrated, especially in the playoffs, where teams usually only go 7 deep (8 at best). 

Only a raging homer or hater (which you seem to be) would belittle this trade. As much as I love the rapz, they have easily been surpassed by the Celtics with this move. Maybe it'll be a good thing. Instead of a weak-*** Atlantic, our younglings will have 2-3 years intense competition. Bosh playing against KG 6-8 times a year can only help in his development.


----------



## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

nammer21 said:


> Who cares if they have to play 40+ minutes? They all average around that for their careers. And you can easily spell any of the 3 for extended periods of time as any of those two on the floor at the same time is fine. Who cares if they're over 30? Garnett hasn't played less then 76 games in a season; Ray Allen averages 70-75 games a year (including last year, where Seattle benched his *** to get Durant) and Pierce has never played less then 75 games a season barring last years tank-fest. They are all elite top 20-25 (KG being top 5-7) who are still on top of there game. They have a 2-3 year (maybe four) window where they will maintain their level of play and as a result, Boston will be the prohibitive favorite in the East. Depth is overrated, especially in the playoffs, where teams usually only go 7 deep (8 at best).
> 
> Only a raging homer or hater (which you seem to be) would belittle this trade. As much as I love the rapz, they have easily been surpassed by the Celtics with this move. Maybe it'll be a good thing. Instead of a weak-*** Atlantic, our younglings will have 2-3 years intense competition. Bosh playing against KG 6-8 times a year can only help in his development.


Hey newbie. Since the Celts will be going 7 deep, lets have their rotation.


----------



## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

I'm not panicking, but this is a big deal. It will give us a lot of competition in the AD, and in the East in general.

We've all seen what KG can do when he is unhappy, imagine what he can do if he likes it in Boston. Thankfully they have a poor coach.

The fact that we have a young core is nice, but I don't want to get thumped for a couple of years. That isn't a good learning process considering how much we have lost in the last few years as it is.


----------



## nammer21 (Jul 29, 2004)

butr said:


> Hey newbie. Since the Celts will be going 7 deep, lets have their rotation.


:lol: Good one. Always enjoy the ad hominem argument. Yea, I"m not a basketball superstar like you. 4000 post eh? You must get all them hot hunnies telling them you spend a large portion of your time on a basketballboard. :clap2: ...I kid I kid. 

Obviously you can't have a rational conversation without resorting to name calling, but I'll indulge you anyways. 

Not entirely sure about the Celts rotation. Think it would go something like this:

PG Rondo _____ Pruit
SG Pierce/Allen T.Allen
SF Allen/Pierce Gomes
PF KG Baby Davis
C Perkins _____

Not world class depth for sure...even sub-par. They need a legit back-up/starting PG and depth C. But they have a mid-level and veterans exception which they can easily use on Brevin Knight/Charlie Bell. Maybe pick-up a big body like Olowokandi (sp?), Mutombo, Webber, PJ Brown. Very easy pieces to pick-up, and with a core of KG/Ray Ray/PP, Boston becomes much more attractive.


----------



## Mateo (Sep 23, 2006)

butr said:


> Who's the guy that will make the open shot?


Ray Allen, career 51% eFG%.

Paul Pierce, career 48% eFG%.



butr said:


> What happens if KG goes down? Who is going to rebound?


Ryan Gomes, Paul Pierce, Rajon Rondo, Perkins, should I go on?


----------



## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

I like what Boston is doing. 

They tried the youth movement but they scrapped that and now they have perhaps the best nucleus in the Atlantic.


----------



## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

TheATLien said:


> I like what Boston is doing.
> 
> They tried the youth movement but they scrapped that and now they have perhaps the best nucleus in the Atlantic.


They should've traded those picks for vets in the first place, rather than pissing away a few of Pierce's prime years.

But I agree, this is about as good a move as they can make.


----------



## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

Jefferson, Green, Telfair, Ratliff, and a future first, is that the official deal?


----------



## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

nammer21 said:


> :lol: Good one. Always enjoy the ad hominem argument. Yea, I"m not a basketball superstar like you. 4000 post eh? You must get all them hot hunnies telling them you spend a large portion of your time on a basketballboard. :clap2: ...I kid I kid.
> 
> Obviously you can't have a rational conversation without resorting to name calling, but I'll indulge you anyways.
> 
> ...


That's right I define myself by my postings on BBB. You being a newbie has nothing to do with your number of posts. And if you think being a "newbie" is name-calling, you must have paper-thin skin. It also did not register that homer/hater labels are also evidence of "name-calling"?

Being new, means you were not around for evidence that shows the opposite of your assessment of me.

Ray 16m
PP 16m
KG 22m
Perk 4.5m
Scal 3m
Rondo 1.3m
Tony 1.9m
Rest 2m

Total up to about 66 million. Are they going to drop a lower level exception for 1.8 and another 5 plus per year on top of that for depth? KG is going to get an additional 3 mil per on an extension. The Boston ownership better be prepared to lose a boatload of cash to pay the tax because they don't have it right now.

Listen. I'm not as irrational as you think I am. Are they better? Of course. Are they title contenders? Not a chance. If one injury can wipe out your team's chances you are not a contender. One of these three go down, and that 40+ minutes goes to a mix of D-leaguers.

Look at Shaq, breaking down after a HOF career. Now he got them a championship, that was a great deal. KG is not Shaq. They now have 3 players locked in for 3 to 6 years given the upcoming extension all over 30. If I'm a Boston fan, do I want to be paying 60 to 65 million dollars to these guys in 3 years when they will be slower and broken down from playing so much in their 30s. MJ never played so many minutes even in the later years. 

Honestly, I don't know what is out there now at PG, but they need to take that MLE break it up, and find some solid value UFAs, maybe from Europe, pay the tax through the nose, and take advantage of these 3 NOW. As they currently sit, the Celts are extremely vulnerable. Look at the Raps. They can lose a player and still compete by plugging in a player, see the Bosh injury, (6-6). Look at the Suns after they lost Amare for a YEAR. Take one of these 3 away from the current roster and they are a mediocre team or worse.

This is not NBA 08. Depth matters beyond the first 3. When 4 through 8 are still ****, that will become exposed.


----------



## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

There depth isn't THAT bad.

Yes they need a backup point guard.

But Tony Allen is a good player, gritty defensively, that will give you a solid 20+ minutes. 

Ryan Gomes is one of the leagues most underrated players, he can rebound, hustle, score do everything.. He's good for 30 + minutes off the bench. 

At the centre position there alittle weak. I like Perkins, but there going to have to rely on him to play 40 a night it looks like. Unless they decide to play KG at centre a lot of the time, and play Gomes next to him.

Overall not that deep.. but with a three headed monster like that what do you expect? There scary if there healthy.

If you think we're better your kidding yourself.


----------



## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

speedythief said:


> Jefferson, Green, Telfair, Ratliff, and a future first, is that the official deal?



The latest from ESPN has Gomes also going in that package. Oh and after the trade, KG's trade kicker brings him up to 28.75 MILLION.


----------



## icehawk (May 30, 2003)

butr said:


> Hell I welcome this deal. Bring it on.
> 
> So they are all over 30. They are all going to play 40+ mins due to depth issues and they are going to each play 75+ games, leading them to the ECF?
> 
> ...


ROFL Please stop dreaming. The only way we possibly get a W against the Cs is if one of the big 3 is injured. So what if they're older players? If you didn't catch last season, they're still elite players and that's all that matters.

ESPN: The latest configuration of a deal that would reportedly send Garnett to the Celtics would send Gerald Green, Ryan Gomes, Sebastian Telfair, Theo Ratliff, and two first-round picks to the Timberwolves, the Boston Globe reports. (Jul 30)

So if that goes through they'll still have Al Jefferson, Rajon Rondo, Tony Allen, Kendrick Perkins, and Leon Powe. Aside from a PG, I don't see what's stopping them from winning the East.


----------



## R-X (Jun 29, 2007)

butr said:


> The latest from ESPN has Gomes also going in that package. Oh and after the trade, KG's trade kicker brings him up to 28.75 MILLION.


Irregardless of whatever the terms of the deal are..the Raps couldn't handle NJ's big 3....and now there is Boston's Super 3 that are even scarier...

We might win more games in the regular season but i do not want this team going up against the Celtics and Nets in the playoffs...who cares about your bench then..its the stars that win in the playoffs...god forbid if the Knicks actually gel this year...talent-wise they are better then the Raptors at every position (they just suck as a team)

Overall this sucks as a Raps fan...but is great for b-ball fans in general...

the Atlantic division will be the one to watch next season for sure!


----------



## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

icehawk said:


> ROFL Please stop dreaming. The only way we possibly get a W against the Cs is if one of the big 3 is injured. So what if they're older players? If you didn't catch last season, they're still elite players and that's all that matters.
> 
> ESPN: The latest configuration of a deal that would reportedly send Garnett to the Celtics would send Gerald Green, Ryan Gomes, Sebastian Telfair, Theo Ratliff, and two first-round picks to the Timberwolves, the Boston Globe reports. (Jul 30)
> 
> So if that goes through they'll still have Al Jefferson, Rajon Rondo, Tony Allen, Kendrick Perkins, and Leon Powe. Aside from a PG, I don't see what's stopping them from winning the East.



Ah literacy...

"Multiple sources said the team includes two assets Timberwolves general manager Kevin McHale has coveted: Al Jefferson and Theo Ratliff's expiring contract.

It's believed that the tentative agreement *also* calls for the Celtics to also ship youngsters Gerald Green, Sebastian Telfair and Ryan Gomes to Minnesota, along with a future first-round draft pick and the return of a first-rounder that the Wolves surrendered in the Wally Szczerbiak-Ricky Davis trade in January 2006."

Wanna rethink that.


----------



## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

Honestly. I don't get the fear. Every player on this team will be a year better. We're deeper.

Instead of playing boring games against BOS and NY we actually have a chance to develop real rivalries not based on hatred of a player.

I am ****ing pumped, because even though I have taken the minority stance here, it will be a bigger deal when we beat BOS. Boston will be better. There are 4 games on the sked that meant nothing last year. In the end you want to be the best. I don't want to just get to the ECF and have people say oh well it was Bosh and 4 stiffs.

And I want everybody who is underrating our team AGAIN this year to remember what you pegged us for last year. Chances are you had us around 30-35 wins. Then think how wrong you were.


----------



## Junkyard Dog13 (Aug 9, 2003)

no need to hit the Panic button sure The Celtics & Knicks have greatly improved team talent but it doesnt mean we are doomed we have a good starting 5 and the deepest bench in the Div, we are just gonna need more improvement from last years group within and hope Kapono is consistent.
Bargnani at C will create match up problems and we only saw him do damage asa back up as a starter he should be better as he will likely be plying 35 MPG on a consistent basis. 
TJ Ford should improve as well, he knows the offense fully with a year under his belt in running it and he will get a good push from Jose for his job. 
depth is pretty good at every position.
We still don't know who the starting Sf will be a 3 man fight Kapono, Garbajosa & Graham.

Boston's bench awfully thin and that trio over 30 and if they have to play 40 min s consistent basis they will breakdown and get banged up.

Even if we don't win the Div we likely still will be in the top 5

1. Chicago
2 Cleveland
3 Boston/Toronto/New Jersey
4. Miami
5. 2nd place of #3 heading


----------



## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

R-X said:


> Irregardless of whatever the terms of the deal are..the Raps couldn't handle NJ's big 3....and now there is Boston's Super 3 that are even scarier...


I can forgive so many grammatical errors. This is a forum after all. But not... irregardless.


----------



## icehawk (May 30, 2003)

butr said:


> Ah literacy...
> 
> "Multiple sources said the team includes two assets Timberwolves general manager Kevin McHale has coveted: Al Jefferson and Theo Ratliff's expiring contract.
> 
> ...


I copied & pasted that off ESPN's most recent update (at the time) and it didn't include Jefferson.


----------



## lucc19 (Feb 24, 2005)

as long as, no one get hurts... boston has one of the best teams in the nba... if everyone can play with each other.... they gave up AL... who i really liked, but KG can do everything by himself... and not giving up rondo.. was key in this deal, i never really liked green, and theo is at the end of his road... great move for boston... ray allen now KG... wow i didn't think they could change that much, but i have to take off my hat to them, great move!


----------



## icehawk (May 30, 2003)

butr said:


> Honestly. I don't get the fear. Every player on this team will be a year better. We're deeper.
> 
> Instead of playing boring games against BOS and NY we actually have a chance to develop real rivalries not based on hatred of a player.
> 
> ...


Yeah buddy, everyone has it wrong but you. Rethink that.

Nobody's saying the Raps aren't going to improve. It's just that Boston is huge right now (if the deal goes through). I love the Raptors but I'm not so biased to ignore the threat of Boston acquiring both Allen and Garnett. If you can't see through your Raptor homer glasses then you're beyond help.


----------



## chocolove (Apr 4, 2006)

speedythief said:


> Jefferson, Green, Telfair, Ratliff, and a future first, is that the official deal?


was watching the ticker today and that seems to be the official deal. For real, the celts got away with robbery on this one, I think green and telfair are ****, Jefferson is the only good piece in the deal. I dont know what year the pick is in but i mean with the big 3 it cant be a high pick

EDIT: Gomes is in the deal too i think


----------



## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

icehawk said:


> Yeah buddy, everyone has it wrong but you. Rethink that.
> 
> Nobody's saying the Raps aren't going to improve. It's just that Boston is huge right now (if the deal goes through). I love the Raptors but I'm not so biased to ignore the threat of Boston acquiring both Allen and Garnett. If you can't see through your Raptor homer glasses then you're beyond help.


Yeah. Everybody thought the raps would be under .500 last year too. Listen, if Boston had any bench, I would agree they would be a force. But they don't. Everyone in this place puts no value on the most important and aspects of this game. It's like you're building a fantasy team or in franchise mode on your PS3.

"Well I don't need subs as I don't play with subs. I don't need a PG, I just bring the ball up with Pierce and play iso on every play"

I said it before, Boston will be better, but I don't care who you are. No one can be effective playing so much for so long. It has to end sometime. Butch Carter warned against playing players more than 35-38 mins. MJ in his 2nd dynasty never played 40 minutes a night at his most fit and dominant. (Not that he couldn't do it when needed).

I always remember back to when Florida won the championship back about 7 or 8 years ago. Duke had the studs, but coach K always had a short bench. Florida ran with 9 or 10 athletes. Smoked'em.

I know the differences between the two games. But there is no way these 3 guys can play 40 mins a night and stay healthy at this point in their careers. Someone is going down unless Ainge can get some decent fill-ins. Good luck. Look at that salary structure, then look at them for the majority of the winners over the last decade.

I'm going to be interested to watch. They will be better, but they were what 2nd worst?. KG is not Shaq of 2 years ago, that bench is horrific, but nobody cares. Its all about the names and winning the press conference.

You guys can think what you like. I don't care.


----------



## chocolove (Apr 4, 2006)

whats scarier, PHX's big 3 or Boston's? I was freaking out at first but now that I thought about it for a bit a lot of teams have put to together teams of good players that sometimes dont pan out so maybe the Raps still have a fighting chance to win the division


----------



## R-X (Jun 29, 2007)

butr said:


> Yeah. Everybody thought the raps would be under .500 last year too. Listen, if Boston had any bench, I would agree they would be a force. But they don't. Everyone in this place puts no value on the most important and aspects of this game. It's like you're building a fantasy team or in franchise mode on your PS3.
> 
> "Well I don't need subs as I don't play with subs. I don't need a PG, I just bring the ball up with Pierce and play iso on every play"
> 
> ...


For the record...I think the Raps will have a better record then the Celtics...but man...they will be NASTY in the playoffs so long as no one goes down...look at Phoenix...you really don't need a bench to do damage...

Hell look at NJ last year...they creamed us without a bench...

Bench depth is over-rated in the playoffs...its all about who has the best 5 as a unit out there


----------



## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

chocolove said:


> whats scarier, PHX's big 3 or Boston's? I was freaking out at first but now that I thought about it for a bit a lot of teams have put to together teams of good players that sometimes dont pan out so maybe the Raps still have a fighting chance to win the division


If you're just comparing trios, I would take Phoenix's 3 of Marion, Amare, and Nash over Allen, Pierce, KG. The main factor being Steve Nash. Having Nash makes your entire team better, something that Boston needs.

The Suns are still a far superior team compare to the Celtics. With the addition of Grant Hill, they are even a better team than last year.


----------



## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

KG is not an inside force so the Celts are basically a jumpshooting team with no power game. Perkins is an OK center but no offensive game, and behind him they have nothing.

They also don't have a legit nba starting PG. No C and no PG essentially makes them the Raps of a few years ago with VC.

They will be better but nowhere near title contenders. They don't worry me at all. If the Raps have plans to be contenders in the East this Boston team is much less a worry than Chicago, Detroit, Miami, or even Cleveland/Washington.

I would put Boston in the same category as NJ where there are big names but no chance to really contend. If the Raps cant deal with that then we might be better off falling into the lottery again and picking up another asset.


----------



## narrator (Feb 11, 2006)

Here's an interesting article on KG's trade kicker. The most relevant part is this:

_"Garnett's salary for next season is $22 million and the trade kicker is $6.75 million, meaning that Boston would have to accommodate $28.75 million in salary and send out at least $22.92 million in a trade if Garnett is to receive the full bonus.

"But the latest incarnation of the trade is believed to include the following five Celtics for a total of $18,921,547: Al Jefferson, Theo Ratliff, Gerald Green, Sebastian Telfair and Ryan Gomes. If no other Celtics are added to the deal, Boston could only take back $23,751,934 in salary, meaning Garnett would have to consent to waiving nearly $5 million of his trade kicker … $4,998,066 to be exact.

"Garnett's take-home trade bonus would thus be reduced to $1,751,934."_

I didn't realize that's how old (i.e. pre-current CBA) trade kickers worked. So it only make them virtually untradebale rather than completely untradeable.

I expect confirmation of this trade later today. If it happens, this is excellent for Boston for the next 2-5 years (depending on health). And this is also good for the Raptors. The gauntlet has been thrown down. Every single Raptor should be extra pumped up for every single division game, what with the playoff loss to the Nets and now the Big 3 in Boston. I can't wait to see Bosh taking Perkins off the dribble and Calderon hitting a huge 3 and breaking out his giant grin and Bargnani just destroying people.


----------



## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

lucky777s said:


> KG is not an inside force so the Celts are basically a jumpshooting team with no power game. Perkins is an OK center but no offensive game, and behind him they have nothing.
> 
> They also don't have a legit nba starting PG. No C and no PG essentially makes them the Raps of a few years ago with VC.


Beside Knicks, there isn't another team in the East that has much of an inside game, I don't see how it would be a determining factor for the Celtics. You can probably count the Magic but all Dwight Howard can do is bump and dunk. I would take KG as my inside guy over pretty much anyone else in the East including Bosh, and that's a Raptor fan speaking.

Getting KG immediately puts the Celtics into the upper echelon of the East and I'm afraid to say, above the Raptors. However, that is only on paper as team chemistry and injury can really change a lot of things. But if everything goes according to plan for the Celtics, I wouldn't like our chances if we meet the Celtics come next April.


----------



## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

by that logic the US 'dream teams' should still be undefeated.

Forget about the star power and the advertisements and bloated stats on bad teams. Even if all 3 average 20ppg they still have to come up with about 40 more points to contend with the Raps offense because I don't see any defensive stoppers in that group.

Is KG going to shut down Bosh or Bargs. Nope. Is Perkins? Nope. We have deadly shooters at every position, with backups who are almost as good or better than the starters. We shouldn't have major cold streaks. And we shoot foul shots extremely well too.

Our team D may even be better than the C's.


----------



## icehawk (May 30, 2003)

lucky777s said:


> They also don't have a legit nba starting PG. No C and no PG essentially makes them the Raps of a few years ago *with VC*.


Make that 3 VCs.


----------



## R-X (Jun 29, 2007)

lucky777s said:


> by that logic the US 'dream teams' should still be undefeated.
> 
> Forget about the star power and the advertisements and bloated stats on bad teams. Even if all 3 average 20ppg they still have to come up with about 40 more points to contend with the Raps offense because I don't see any defensive stoppers in that group.
> 
> ...


Bosh isnt the problem...its the rest of the team...if u recall last year's playoffs...they focused entirely on taking Bosh out of the game...the rest of the team outside of TJ and Jose couldn't do a damn thing help us win...

The team has changed and I think improved, however we can't completely rely on Bosh for everything...he's good but like anyone, needs some help to make teams pay for doubling him.


----------



## Junkyard Dog13 (Aug 9, 2003)

Gaurding these 3

Parker on Allen
garbajosa/Kapono on Pierce
bosh on garnett

They will be unable to match Ford & bargnani mathup wise


----------



## narrator (Feb 11, 2006)

The deal's apparently done. Jefferson, Telfair, *Green,* Gomes, Ratliff and 2 first rounders for Garnett. (http://www.bostonherald.com/blogs/celtics/?p=119)

This is a good deal for the Celts.



> They will be unable to match Ford & bargnani mathup wise


I agree with that.

EDIT: Green was added; I forgot him.


----------



## narrator (Feb 11, 2006)

Junkyard Dog13 said:


> Gaurding these 3
> 
> Parker on Allen
> *garbajosa/Kapono on Pierce*
> ...


:lol: 

Pierce would go for 200 points on Kapono.


----------



## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

Oh, they added Gomes too? That hurts there depth a lot. Now they are desperate for someone to come off the bench.


----------



## TRON (Feb 29, 2004)

I like this deal for the Atlantic division, no more titanc references and a newly highened sense of competition. The Battle should be very intereting.

Even without a starting PG or lowpost threat to mention, the Celtics will be a very good team. This sets the Celtics up for a future trade IMO, you can't devote 60 million to three players and not one of them being a center/PG. Pierce should be able to fetch a nice PG.....then Boston will be scary.


----------



## TRON (Feb 29, 2004)

oh btw.....there goes any chance of Bosh starting in another All-star game for atleast the next 5-6 years :no:


----------



## narrator (Feb 11, 2006)

TRON said:


> oh btw.....there goes any chance of Bosh starting in another All-star game for atleast the next 5-6 years :no:


There are lots of Raptor and Bosh fans. Guess we all need to vote 3 or 4 times now. :cheers:


----------



## chulo (Jun 29, 2006)

I have to agree with BUTR. I'm happy for the deal too. Remember when we won the atlantic and everyone wouldn't the raptors credit because we're in the worst division? Now with an improved Celtics team it gives the division back some credibility. You also have to like the trade if you like rivalries. Bosh and KG will have a lot of battles that will be talked about for years. I can't wait til the season starts.


----------



## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

> by that logic the US 'dream teams' should still be undefeated.


If you give that US Dream teams 82 games in a course of 5 months to get in a flow, would you want to be playing them in a 7 game series at the end of those 82 games? I wouldn't.



> Is KG going to shut down Bosh or Bargs. Nope. Is Perkins? Nope. We have deadly shooters at every position, with backups who are almost as good or better than the starters. We shouldn't have major cold streaks. And we shoot foul shots extremely well too.


We won't be shutting down KG either. With our perimeter D, Pierce and Allen will torch us just like how Richard Jefferson and VC torched us last year in the playoffs. The difference, Pierce actually gives effort unlike VC, so you won't see that many 22 footers and when you see them they might even go in.



> Our team D may even be better than the C's.


I highly doubt it. We are not known for our defense and I seriously doubt we will crush any team with it.


With all that said, it's not like BC built this team to be under a 2 year time window. The Celtics will only be good this year and perhaps next year, and it will be all downhill there. Despite what happened to the Celtics, we should still be able to improve upon last year's success. We will definitely make the playoffs this year and should be able to compete for the conference title the year after.


----------



## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

The game is about TEAM scoring totals Seifer. Try to get past the fanboy stuff and fantasy ball stuff and think about real games.

Raps are going to score on Boston. Big time. So even if you spot their bigthree 60 points they need to get another 40 points from the supporting players at a high FG% to win most nights. Boston's D was horrible last year and didn't get any better with these moves.

Toronto is probably a better TEAM defense club because of the effort, bball IQ, age and depth of our club. Nobody said we would crush teams with our D. A few percentage points in FG% and fewer turnovers is all we need to outscore opponents.

Boston lost their only inside scorer in Al Jefferson. They are a perimeter club now and will have scoring droughts and bad shooting nights especially when they don't have a bench to take up the slack.

I must have missed VC torching us in the playoffs. Even the Nets board ripped him for a horrible playoff performance. Raps just didn't score enough to win. Injuries and inexperience hurt us.


----------



## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

> The game is about TEAM scoring totals Seifer. Try to get past the fanboy stuff and fantasy ball stuff and think about real games.


I don't see the relationship of fanboy and fantasy ball here. Just for the record I have never been a fan of either Pierce/Allen/KG since they have begun their careers, but then again I don't see how that is relevant to me feeling they are a stronger team than the Raptors. If your point is that the only way for anyone to "predict" results is for the 2 teams to play each other, then there is basically no point for any of us to "predict" anything, let's just wait till they actually play.



> Toronto is probably a better TEAM defense club because of the effort, bball IQ, age and depth of our club. Nobody said we would crush teams with our D. A few percentage points in FG% and fewer turnovers is all we need to outscore opponents.


Effort and bball IQ, using your own terms, clear your mind of fanboyism, please. What are you basing this on? Not only is the Raptors not a defensively-minded team to begin with, the Celtics are basically a brand new team. Don't you think it's just a *tad* bit too early to be making this kind of assumptions? Getting Gerald Green and Bassy Telfair to run a play isn't exactly the same as getting Ray Allen and Paul Pierce to run the same play. If anything, the Celts went from being a young team to being a veteran team, effort/IQ/execution, all those intangibles are completely different this year. 

Rondo isn't much of a PG offensively but he is known for his defense. KG has proven to be a better defender than Bosh and I take Pierce over Kapono or Garbo defensively any day of the week. That is 3 spots out of 5 that the Celts have advantage in defense already. The last time I looked we don't have someone like Zo or Deke coming out of our bench, it's going to be even bench wise as well. I am not saying that the Celts are a great defensive team, it's just that they are at least adequate to the point where we don't have an edge in that department. 



> I must have missed VC torching us in the playoffs. Even the Nets board ripped him for a horrible playoff performance. Raps just didn't score enough to win. Injuries and inexperience hurt us.


This has to be the funniest part because I too only remember our victories, not our losses. In games 3 and 4, especially during that first half of game 3(or 4, I can't remember), VC basically tore up the Raptors D all by himself. As I said, the only thing stopping VC from doing that all the time is himself. He let the crowd get to him during games 1/2/5 but once he got it going, we did not have anything that remotely resembled an answer. Richard Jefferson also averaged 21.5 points against us, and he wasn't even close to 100% last year in the playoffs coming off surgery and only playing the last 20 games or so in the regular season. Again, I don't see how anyone that watched last year's playoffs to not get a sense that our perimeter defense was horrid. I mean, did you, in all honestly, *really* miss that, or is it just selective memory? Unless Delfino transforms into the next Raja Bell/Bruce Bowen, we are basically heading into next season the same if not worse at stopping perimeter players than last year.

If you cannot stop a scared VC and an injured Jefferson, I don't see how our luck against Pierce and Ray Allen will be any better. KG and Bosh will probably cancel each other out, the other 2 strikes deep into our weakness on the perimeter. If I am BC, I would be looking for ways to negate that rightaway.


----------



## ballocks (May 15, 2003)

seifer0406 said:


> If you cannot stop a scared VC and an injured Jefferson, I don't see how our luck against Pierce and Ray Allen will be any better. KG and Bosh will probably cancel each other out, the other 2 strikes deep into our weakness on the perimeter. If I am BC, I would be looking for ways to negate that rightaway.


personally, i think the celtics have become immensely 'overrated' in the wake of this one move. i think we're all wearing summer glasses to some extent- 'fantasy' basketball absolutely rules in the summer months, and it always has, imo.

i mean, you can't argue with boston's three _names_, but it's been proven time and again (especially recently) that that's no surefire guarantee of success. if names won games, the knicks would've won 60+ two years ago. not saying the celtics are in the same boat at all, but the point remains: the hype machine loves this stuff. that's as much (or more) of a reason for why we're reading about it this morning as the team's improvement itself. i guess it's fun... but we should be careful when we say it's _real_.

anyway, the only reason i wanted to say anything here was in response to the above quote, "If you cannot stop a scared VC and an injured Jefferson..." honestly, i don't think 'can' was ever the issue. do you? i think the raptors obviously _can_ beat the nets- like the nets obviously _can_ beat the raptors. the playoff series revealed very little to me, save for confirming the team-wide complacency that defined us last season.

but come on now, would we (as BC) really want to make some roster move to contend with the garnett trade? i don't know. the hysterics are one thing, but we can't really believe what we're being hysterical about... can we? let the celtics have their headlines this morning, imo... this is all part of the media/promotion/entertainment game. but it's something else to actually leave the advertised effect out on the court, imo. i'd still be patently shocked to see the celtics atop the conference at the end of this season but i guess that's how it goes. we'll see what happens. that's part of the fun, too.

peace


----------



## TRON (Feb 29, 2004)

Getting KG is so much more than just a "headline grabber". 

having 3 unselfish, classy and team first players like Boston has will win them a lot of games. No fanboy here, just being logical and giving credit where credits due.

they're a PG away from elite status IMO


----------



## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

A motivated Kevin Garnett on even a mediocre team in the East scares the hell out of me. This is the fiercest competitor in the NBA we're talking about.


----------



## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

ballocks said:


> anyway, the only reason i wanted to say anything here was in response to the above quote, "If you cannot stop a scared VC and an injured Jefferson..." honestly, i don't think 'can' was ever the issue. do you? i think the raptors obviously _can_ beat the nets- like the nets obviously _can_ beat the raptors. the playoff series revealed very little to me, save for confirming the team-wide complacency that defined us last season.
> 
> but come on now, would we (as BC) really want to make some roster move to contend with the garnett trade? i don't know. the hysterics are one thing, but we can't really believe what we're being hysterical about... can we? let the celtics have their headlines this morning, imo... this is all part of the media/promotion/entertainment game. but it's something else to actually leave the advertised effect out on the court, imo. i'd still be patently shocked to see the celtics atop the conference at the end of this season but i guess that's how it goes. we'll see what happens. that's part of the fun, too.
> 
> peace


Getting beat in certain aspect of the game doesn't mean that you will lose the series. It does greatly affect your chances, but of course, there is always the possibility of winning. In all fairness, the Raptors were one play away from beating the Nets last year, I am not ignoring that fact. Despite winning or losing last year, the Raptors' weak defense on the perimeter was a problem that needs to be addressed. Unless the Raptors demonstrated that they are capable of winning the championship while carrying such a hole in their game, they better look to cover such a hole either sooner or later. 

I wouldn't necessarily call this kind of concern as "giving too much credit to an unproven team" in my opinion. Knowing and admitting your own weakness is the only way you can begin to improve in that area. And until you do so, you should be worried about teams whose strength on offense matches your weakness on defense, especially when you have players like Pierce and Ray Allen on the team and still have KG inside.


----------



## Victor Page (Nov 1, 2006)

As noted by SpeedyThief about 300 posts ago in this thread,the Celtics are coached by one of the worst coaches in NBA history, Doc Rivers. This should not be underestimated.


----------



## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

> And until you do so, you should be worried about teams whose strength on offense matches your weakness on defense, especially when you have players like Pierce and Ray Allen on the team and still have KG inside.


KG is not an inside player. He is a jumpshooter. We can guard him fine. And as an O rebounder he is below average. Below Average. Ranks 26th in the league, which is very low considering only 30 teams and each team will have a leading rebounder. Most of his boards are defensive. So he won't hurt us there as much as guys like Mikki Moore, Brendan Haywood, Dwight Howard, AL JEFFERSON, David Lee, Jeff Foster, etc. Even Bosh is a better O rebounder.

Nobody has to double KG so he doesn't open up easy shots for the others unlike a Shaq or Duncan.

So I don't see the big concern. We have a bunch of guys that will work much harder on D over 82 games than Ray and PP as well with Parker, Delfino, Calderon, Dixon. Most nba stars take a lot of plays off during the regular season, especially on D, which is part of why the Raps are a very strong regular season club.

Plus the Celts need to lower their turnovers dramatically and I don't think Rondo being the main PG will accomplish that. Can't score when you turn the ball over.

And what about how our strength on O matches up with their weakness on D. Shouldn't that be worrying Boston?

They could be dangerous in a series if all 3 get hot, but any club in the league can say that if their top 3 players are going well. Raps have the balance to score 100 every night on every team. Boston has to prove they can put together an 8 man rotation for a full 82 games to even make the playoffs. Are they going to try and play uptempo in the high 90's or slow the game down to high 80's-low90's range? We don't even know that yet.

The Celt's may yet add the pieces to make them a legit contender but right now they don't have enough to get the job done imo.


----------



## TRON (Feb 29, 2004)

> Originally posted by *Victor Page !*
> 
> the Celtics are coached by one of the worst coaches in NBA history, Doc Rivers. This should not be underestimated.


while success has eluded him in Boston to this point, didn't this guy win coach of the year in Orlando, taking a bunch of scrubs to the playoffs a few years back.


----------



## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

lucky777s said:


> KG is not an inside player. He is a jumpshooter. We can guard him fine. And as an O rebounder he is below average. Below Average. Ranks 26th in the league, which is very low considering only 30 teams and each team will have a leading rebounder. Most of his boards are defensive. So he won't hurt us there as much as guys like Mikki Moore, Brendan Haywood, Dwight Howard, AL JEFFERSON, David Lee, Jeff Foster, etc. Even Bosh is a better O rebounder.
> 
> Nobody has to double KG so he doesn't open up easy shots for the others unlike a Shaq or Duncan.
> 
> ...


The homerism displayed in this post is just outstanding. You should learn to recognize other team's strengths besides rooting for the home team.


----------



## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

Trust me, 777's is far from a homer.

He is just stating his bold opinion.


----------



## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

bigbabyjesus said:


> Trust me, 777's is far from a homer.


Compare to you he ain't.


----------



## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!

:|. Laaame.


----------



## icehawk (May 30, 2003)

lucky777s said:


> KG is not an inside player. He is a jumpshooter. We can guard him fine. And as an O rebounder he is below average. Below Average. Ranks 26th in the league, which is very low considering only 30 teams and each team will have a leading rebounder. Most of his boards are defensive. So he won't hurt us there as much as guys like Mikki Moore, Brendan Haywood, Dwight Howard, AL JEFFERSON, David Lee, Jeff Foster, etc. Even Bosh is a better O rebounder.
> 
> Nobody has to double KG so he doesn't open up easy shots for the others unlike a Shaq or Duncan.
> 
> ...


One of the most biased posts I've seen in awhile. Since when did we become an elite defensive team who doesn't have to worry about 3 All-Stars torching us?

Oh, I forgot... KG is a jump shooter so let's not worry about him. Are you kidding me? He's also a match-up nightmare and defensive monster; Bosh is going to have a tough time and Bargnani will just get flat out abused.

Add Paul Pierce and Ray Allen to the mix... Who's going to guard them? Parker may able to hold one of them to 20 points on a good night, but what about the other? Graham, Delfino... Jason Kapono? LOL.

Celtics are going to fill their bench. They've already signed Eddie House with only a small part of their MLE and they still got more to spend.


----------



## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

Can't wait till the first Sunday in November.


----------



## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

icehawk said:


> One of the most biased posts I've seen in awhile. Since when did we become an elite defensive team who doesn't have to worry about 3 All-Stars torching us?
> 
> Add Paul Pierce and Ray Allen to the mix... Who's going to guard them? Parker may able to hold one of them to 20 points on a good night, but what about the other?
> Celtics are going to fill their bench. They've already signed Eddie House with only a small part of their MLE and they still got more to spend.


Oh, where to start?

1. How is stating that the Raps will have a better team D than the Celts in any way imply that the Raps will be an 'elite' defensive team. Only someone who thinks the Celts will be a GREAT defensive team could even reach that conclusion.

2. How many points per game do you expect these 3 all stars to score? Didn't you notice that AI and Melo saw their scoring averages go down when they played together? You think having 3 guys used to being the center of a system will be better than that?

3. Do you think all 3 all-stars are going to shoot high percentages every night? If only one of PP and RA are on that night then you put your best defender on the hot shooter.

4. Eddie House? are you serious? now I'm scared. He's basically the equivalent of Juan Dixon.

5. Here are KG's line the past 3 seasons versus the Raps

7/18 24pts 9reb 3TO O BS
7/23 17pts 10reb 2TO O BS

9/15 23pts 19reb 0TO 0 BS
5/11 15pts 12reb 2TO 0 BS

and in the Spree/Cassel/Wally year

9/27 23pts 15reb 5TO 1 BS
9/15 20pts 14reb 4TO 0 BS

FG% 42 16 TO 1 BS and I believe the Raps won most of those games including BOTH in the season KG had his most success with Spree,Cassel, Wally, etc.


----------



## TRON (Feb 29, 2004)

We can look at stats and analyze them to death, but one intangible that I don't think has got mentioned is the fact that Boston has 3 players that can make plays when it counts the most.

Thats what all stars do, down the stretch when the game is on the line, when a crucial bucket is needed.....Boston can go to three players that can litteraly create their own shot.

Now to contrast that, since the Raps don't have a true go-to scorer, we have to depend on ball movement and pray that we're having a good shooting night. We seen how this worked out to 47 wins in the regular season, but little success in the playoffs.

also note, how in the playoffs, when NJ went through their funks they had JKidd to carry them through cold stretches, as well as the series cliching last bucket where RJ put his head down and bullied his way to the bucket. Stars make plays when they count most, that's why thier paid the big bucks.

so maybe, on days when the Raps are clicking they can run through the Celtics, but in a close game that will be decided by a bucket or two I'd have to give the edge to Boston.


----------



## icehawk (May 30, 2003)

lucky777s said:


> Oh, where to start?
> 1. How is stating that the Raps will have a better team D than the Celts in any way imply that the Raps will be an 'elite' defensive team. Only someone who thinks the Celts will be a GREAT defensive team could even reach that conclusion.


Does anybody remember our defensive woes last year? Garnett is an all-defensive player and Pierce is also a good defender. They also have Tony Allen and Rajon Rondo, both good defenders at their respected positions. How many decent defenders do we have? Garbajosa is our best big defender, Parker is decent on the perimeter, but after that there isn't that much left. Delfino may turn out okay but the jury is still out on him.




lucky777s said:


> 2. How many points per game do you expect these 3 all stars to score? Didn't you notice that AI and Melo saw their scoring averages go down when they played together? You think having 3 guys used to being the center of a system will be better than that?


Of course not, but I guess if you stuck LeBron, Wade, and Duncan on the same team it wouldn't be too bad because their scoring averages wouldn't be so high. Please. All three of these guys can score at will, especially on a team with mediocre defenders.



lucky777s said:


> 3. Do you think all 3 all-stars are going to shoot high percentages every night? If only one of PP and RA are on that night then you put your best defender on the hot shooter.


The thing is, when one of these guys are hot, you better believe Parker isn't going to shut them down. Furthermore, the fact that they have 3 guys who can score 40 when hot just makes me scared.



lucky777s said:


> 4. Eddie House? are you serious? now I'm scared. He's basically the equivalent of Juan Dixon.


They only signed him for a small percentage of their MLE, and he's a decent bench player. Needless to say, they're filling their bench.



lucky777s said:


> 5. Here are KG's line the past 3 seasons versus the Raps


Past 3 seasons? We're looking at two different teams here. Bosh hasn't even averaged 14ppg in the past two seasons versus the Wolves so he must suck, right?


----------



## TRON (Feb 29, 2004)

just thought I'd bump this old thread as Boston has been as good or better than many people thought would be. What surprised just about everyone is the way Doc has got this team to play Defense, leading the league in opponents PPG.

I think there was some homerism on display in this thread that would of rivaled Chuck Swirsky.....props to Seifer and icehawk your opinion was right on and you deserve some props even tough you got flamed

I love our team but I think it should be clear to all now that....

Star power > Depth


----------



## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

Boston's D is what is making them so dominant right now. That has to be a surprise to everyone. I think they are top 2 in the league defensively. Scoring from the big 3 most nights is just average, not spectacular.

Most teams take time to gel defensively but they had it going from the start.


----------



## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

I really don't know how anyone could've expected crappy defense from Boston after they acquire KG. I mean, he has only been one of the best defenders in his position for like the past decade, just slightly below Duncan.

I particularly enjoyed icehawk's last post, it's like he just traveled through time to tell us the truth. Better team D? check. Big 3 torching us? check. Big 3 torching us while shooting around 50%? check. Eddie House knocking down buzzer 3s? check. Raptors trying to cover KG with Rasho/Hump/Bosh/Moon/Bargs and failing miserably? check. This is just comedic gold.

"KG isn't an inside player" lol, I can't believe we couldn't find anyone to guard a jumpshooter.


----------



## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

Look, in the last two losses to BOS the Raps scored 77 and 84 points. That won't beat the Hawks or Grizz.

As for the big 3 'torching' us? KG and PP combined for 34 points on 33 shots in the last game. Ray did not play. That's torching?
KG had O FTA, only 8 reb, and 0 BS. They are not why we lost.

The previous game the big 3 combined for 54 points shooting a great percentage. That averages 18 each. Lots of games the Raps have top 3 scorers at that level. But again the Raps shoot close to 40% and lose by a mile.
KG only had 6 reb in this game in limited minutes and 1 BS. Celts got to the line 30 times. Role players put up 58 points against us. Raps had* no Bosh or Bargnani, and of course no Garbo*. That's 3 of our top 8 from last years team. So it was no contest.

The only part I was dead wrong about was KG not playing inside. Doc Rivers has him in the low post for most of the game. I saw that in pre-season and was impressed. I mentioned that in that game thread. This is not how KG has played in recent years offensively. He is buying into a system and doing what it takes to win.


----------



## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

lucky777s said:


> Look, in the last two losses to BOS the Raps scored 77 and 84 points. That won't beat the Hawks or Grizz.
> 
> As for the big 3 'torching' us? KG and PP combined for 34 points on 33 shots in the last game. Ray did not play. That's torching?
> KG had O FTA, only 8 reb, and 0 BS. They are not why we lost.
> ...


Seriously, just stop.

Did you even watch those games? If you watched them, did you understand them? Our guys couldn't cover any of the big 3, Ray Allen to a lesser extent, it was so painfully obvious. Boston's offense almost always begin with one of the big 3 creating an instant mismatch on whoever we have guarding them. That leads to our defense scrambling to help which creates plenty of scoring opportunities for open shooters everywhere. Don't just read the box scores, watch the games. The last 2 games were pretty much over after the first quarter, so don't pride yourself that the Raptors *only* allowed their big 3 to under 20 a game when most of the game were garbage minutes. It's just ridiculous reasoning. When Kevin Garnett gets the ball and our defense collapse on him leaving Rondo open every single time, in your mind Rondo is the one torching us knocking down those wide open 17 footers, not KG who orchestrated the whole play. :lol:

77 and 84 points? Did the concept of great team defense just escape you completely? Do you not know that the Celtics are currently the best defensive team in the league statistic wise and they are especially effective against jump shooting team? Did you not see the Raptors not being able to even get a pass inside the 3 point arc? Are you blind? I can't even comprehend why the Hawks and the Grizz have anything to do with it. If any of those teams have this kind of defense, obviously we won't beat them.

I don't even know what to say. Their team is freaking 20 and 2. What more can you say to defend yourself.


----------



## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

If you bothered to read just a couple of posts above you would see that i said "Boston's D is what is making them so dominant right now" and "I think they are top 2 in the league defensively" so your little rant is rather pointless.

Also, in the game thread I posted that BOS defended the pick and roll better than almost anyone in the league based on that game.

As for stars orchestrating all the plays for their role players I think you could use that argument for every team in the league so I don't see how applying it to just BOS makes any sense. PP and KG had off nights scoring the ball last game having to take 33 shots to get 34 points. That's a fact. You are just trying to gloss over that with BS. Most of Rondo's points were on layups beating Calderon off the bounce as the announce team pointed out and suggested he adjust to. Were YOU not watching.

And why did PP play 41 minutes if 'most of the game were garbage minutes' as you say?

In the earlier game we were without 3 of our top 8 players from last year. You don't think that was a factor in that game? This game we were essentially without 3 again with Ford, Garbo injured and Bargs nowhere near back to form.

Boston is playing great. Never said otherwise. Their system is working beautifully and their stars have gelled quickly and played unselfish ball. Its almost unheard of for a team to change so drastically and play such great D so quickly. All anybody talked about in the summer was their O, but that is not why they are 20-2.


----------



## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

lucky777s said:


> If you bothered to read just a couple of posts above you would see that i said "Boston's D is what is making them so dominant right now" and "I think they are top 2 in the league defensively" so your little rant is rather pointless.





lucky777s said:


> Look, in the last two losses to BOS the Raps scored 77 and 84 points. That won't beat the Hawks or Grizz.


Get your mind straight before you talk, because you're not even making any sense.



lucky777s said:


> As for stars orchestrating all the plays for their role players I think you could use that argument for every team in the league so I don't see how applying it to just BOS makes any sense. PP and KG had off nights scoring the ball last game having to take 33 shots to get 34 points. That's a fact. You are just trying to gloss over that with BS. Most of Rondo's points were on layups beating Calderon off the bounce as the announce team pointed out and suggested he adjust to. Were YOU not watching.


Again, this isn't what you were saying. You implied that if the guy isn't scoring many points, he isn't "torching" our team. In fact, the reason the Raptors got blown out was just that we couldn't cover any of their big 3. As I said, just watch the freaking game.



lucky777s said:


> And why did PP play 41 minutes if 'most of the game were garbage minutes' as you say?


For the last time, WATCH THE GAME. We were down double digits for almost the entire game. We were down by 21 with 7 min to go in the 2nd, and from there on we never got closer than 12 points with the lead around 15-20 for almost the rest of the way. Pierce played 41 minutes because KG was in foul trouble early and they were without Ray Allen. Regardless, he only looked for his shots early by demolishing Moon. There was no need for him to stay aggressive with the game in control.



lucky777s said:


> In the earlier game we were without 3 of our top 8 players from last year. You don't think that was a factor in that game? This game we were essentially without 3 again with Ford, Garbo injured and Bargs nowhere near back to form.


Just leave Garbo out of it. Our defense is better this year with Delfino guarding smaller 3s and Moon guarding bigger 3s and 4s. Bargs and Bosh were both playing in this one and neither could guard KG. Consider non of them are defensive stoppers, I highly doubt that it would've made a difference if they played that 2nd game. I wouldn't joy ourself in going to OT with the Celtics in that first game because it was the 2nd game of the season for Boston and chances are they just haven't gelled. 



lucky777s said:


> Boston is playing great. Never said otherwise. Their system is working beautifully and their stars have gelled quickly and played unselfish ball. Its almost unheard of for a team to change so drastically and play such great D so quickly. All anybody talked about in the summer was their O, but that is not why they are 20-2.


We were talking about how you were being a complete homer a few months ago and still refuse to give full credit to Boston for all the things that people said they were before the season. But by all means keep going. You can become our Chuck Swirsky of BBF.


----------

