# espn ranks the wests top five starting lineups



## INTELLECT (Nov 22, 2002)

The West Fab Fives 

(Statistics are from the 2002-03 season.) 

1. Los Angeles Lakers 


O'Neal 
PG - Gary Payton (20.4 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 8.3 apg) 
SG - Kobe Bryant (30 ppg, 6.9 rpg, 5.9 apg) 
SF - Devean George (6.9 ppg, 4 rpg, 1.3 apg) 
PF - Karl Malone (20.6 ppg, 7.8 rpg, 4.7 apg) 
C - Shaquille O'Neal (27.5 ppg, 11.1 rpg, 3.1 apg) 

Playoff experience: 551 games 
TOTALS: 105.4 ppg, 34.1 rpg, 23.3 apg 

The skinny: What's not to like about the Lakers? Assuming Bryant isn't wearing an orange jumpsuit and picking up trash on the side of the highway next season, the Lakers will be devastating. The have the lethal combination of inside-outside scoring, playoff experience and, for the first time in a while, nice depth off the bench. Will the starting five average 105 ppg next season? No. But they might come pretty close. 

2. Dallas Mavericks 


Nowitzki 
PG - Steve Nash (17.7 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 7.3 apg) 
SG - Michael Finley (19.3 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 3 apg) 
SF - Antawn Jamison (22.2 ppg, 7 rpg, 1.9 apg) 
PF - Dirk Nowitzki (25.1 ppg, 9.9 rpg, 3 apg) 
C - Raef LaFrentz (9.3 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 0.8 apg) 

Playoff experience: 147 games 
TOTALS: 93.6 ppg, 30.4 rpg, 16 apg 

The skinny: The team will be an offensive power house. With Nash pushing the ball, Jamison and Nowitzki on the wings and Finley trailing, you're looking at one of the scariest young teams we've seen in a long time offensively. Add to that superb outside shooting by all five starters, and the Mavs will be a handful. Can you imagine what this team would've looked like had they signed Alonzo Mourning and done this trade? The two real questions? Will anyone bother to play defense? If they don't, expect a lot of 130-128 shootouts in Big D. Does this team have enough veteran leadership to reach the Finals? Adding Jamison may have been a coup on the talent side, but he's yet to play a single playoff game. The Mavs are dead last in playoff experience, and it's probably going to show. 


3. Minnesota Timberwolves 


Garnett 
PG - Sam Cassell (19.7 ppg, 4.4 rpg, 5.8 apg) 
SG - Latrell Sprewell (16.4 ppg, 3.9 rpg, 4.5 apg) 
SF - Wally Szczerbiak (17.6 ppg, 4.6 rpg, 2.6 apg) 
PF - Kevin Garnett (23 ppg, 13.4 rpg, 6 apg) 
C - Michael Olowokandi (12.3 ppg, 9.1 rpg, 1.3 apg) 

Playoff experience: 204 games 
TOTALS: 89 ppg, 35.4 rpg, 20.2 apg 

The skinny: Believe it or not, the T-Wolves aren't that far behind the Mavs and Lakers. They have the most balanced starting five of any of the teams and have a nice mixture of youth and veteran leadership. They have scrappy guards, a couple of nice perimeter shooters, one of the top three forwards in the league in Garnett, and a center who, if he gets his head on straight, still has the potential to be an All-Star. The other thing the Wolves have going for them? They're hungry. After seven consecutive first-round exits, no one wants it more than Minnesota. The negatives? A very thin bench and a plethora of chemistry issues. Not one of these guys has a rep of being easy to get along with. Will they kill the competition or kill each other? 

4. Sacramento Kings 


Webber 
PG - Mike Bibby (15.9 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 5.2 apg) 
SG - Doug Christie (9.4 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 4.7 apg) 
SF - Peja Stojakovic (19.2 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 2 apg) 
PF - Chris Webber (23 ppg, 10.5 rpg, 5.4 apg) 
C - Vlade Divac (9.9 ppg, 7.2 rpg, 3.4 apg) 

Playoff experience: 270 games 
TOTALS: 77.4 ppg, 30.2 rpg, 20.7 apg 

The skinny: A year ago, the Kings were the closest thing the NBA had to a dream team. They had a super-solid starting five and a deep, deep bench. Now, they're almost an afterthought. But treating them that way would be a mistake. The Kings have great chemistry, still have the best bench of the five, and they, too, are hungry. Numerous injuries derailed what should have been a smooth sail to the NBA Finals last season. With the competition now much stiffer, will the Kings bounce back and finally regain their throne? They have two things going for them. One, with the exception of the Lakers, they have the most experience. Two, along with the Spurs, they actually play defense -- a necessity come playoff time. 

5. San Antonio Spurs 


Duncan 
PG - Tony Parker (15.5 ppg, 2.6 rpg, 5.3 apg) 
SG - Emanuel Ginobili (7.6 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 2 apg) 
SF - Hedo Turkoglu (6.7 ppg, 2.8 rpg, 1.3 apg) 
PF - Tim Duncan (23.3 ppg, 12.9 rpg, 3.9 apg) 
C - Rasho Nesterovic (11.2 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 1.5 apg) 

Playoff experience: 184 games 
TOTALS: 64.3 ppg, 27.1 rpg, 14 apg 

The skinny: On paper, the Spurs look vastly inferior to the Lakers, Mavs, T-Wolves and Kings. That's due in part to two players, Ginobili and Turkoglu, who were reserves last season. Both players have a ton of talent and are expected to blossom in starting roles this season. If they do, the Spurs will be right back in the mix. Nesterovic should benefit from playing next to Duncan in the paint. Parker is going to keep maturing, and the Spurs are still going to be the best defensive team of the group. Oh yeah, and don't forget they have the MVP.


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## Dragnsmke1 (Jul 29, 2002)

And if we just run up the score were better then the Lakers!! like I always say...SCREW DEFENSE!!!!!RUN RUN RUN.


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## sheefo13 (Jul 13, 2002)

defense wins championships, thats why the lakers won, the spurs won in the last 5 years ( also a little magic from steve kerr)


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## INTELLECT (Nov 22, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>sheefo13</b>!
> defense wins championships, thats why the lakers won, the spurs won in the last 5 years ( also a little magic from steve kerr)


and the wolves play defense? LOL cat is really kind of "slow" like the lakers starting five this year


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## sheefo13 (Jul 13, 2002)

wow intellect, how old are you? i didnt even say the timberwolves, i said SPURS and LAKERS,


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## INTELLECT (Nov 22, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>sheefo13</b>!
> wow intellect, how old are you? i didnt even say the timberwolves, i said SPURS and LAKERS,


the point is to WORRY about YOUR TEAM. you're bringing up defense when your team isn't good defensively and kg can't contain most BIG NAME PFS. Yall got embarrassed by the lakers man. They weren't even that good in the playoffs and yall got stomped in round 1 just like yall do EVERY YEAR


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## RP McMurphy (Jul 17, 2003)

Dude INTELLECT make some sense already. According to you people should make BAD arguments that MAKE NO SENSE just as long the arguments show that their team will win the championship. What a bunch of garbage. Sheefo was saying (and was correct) that the Spurs and Lakers are better than the Mavs because of their defense, which is important in the playoffs. Just because his team isn't the Spurs or Lakers doesn't mean he's wrong, in fact which team he PERSONALLY likes is completely irrelevant.


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## INTELLECT (Nov 22, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ArtestFan</b>!
> Dude INTELLECT make some sense already. According to you people should make BAD arguments that MAKE NO SENSE just as long the arguments show that their team will win the championship. What a bunch of garbage. Sheefo was saying (and was correct) that the Spurs and Lakers are better than the Mavs because of their defense, which is important in the playoffs. Just because his team isn't the Spurs or Lakers doesn't mean he's wrong, in fact which team he PERSONALLY likes is completely irrelevant.


the lakers gave up 98 points a game last year. They were 23rd in points given up and 17th in opposing team field goal percentage. So according to your logic the mavs are better right? The lakers got older this offseason. The gusy they added are in the twilights of their career and aren't the good defenders they used to be. The spurs have 3 new starters. No one knows how good they will be defensively this year. What sheefo was trying to do was take shots at the mavs once again like he's been doing for the past week or so. yet it's wrong for me to bring up the team he reps and their defense and how he feels they will WIN THE TITLE this year? Yeah um ok man. Whatever you say "crazyartest"


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## sheefo13 (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>INTELLECT</b>!
> 
> 
> the lakers gave up 98 points a game last year. They were 23rd in points given up and 17th in opposing team field goal percentage. So according to your logic the mavs are better right? The lakers got older this offseason. The gusy they added are in the twilights of their career and aren't the good defenders they used to be. The spurs have 3 new starters. No one knows how good they will be defensively this year. What sheefo was trying to do was take shots at the mavs once again like he's been doing for the past week or so. yet it's wrong for me to bring up the team he reps and their defense and how he feels they will WIN THE TITLE this year? Yeah um ok man. Whatever you say "crazyartest"


maybe thats why they didnt win the title this past season, they werent good enough defensively. thats why the spurs won. are you catching on?


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## INTELLECT (Nov 22, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>sheefo13</b>!
> 
> maybe thats why they didnt win the title this past season, they werent good enough defensively. thats why the spurs won. are you catching on?



so your twolves won't win the title this year right? They aren't a "good defensive team" either. So really there's no reason for you to be posting at all about how dope the wolves are is there?


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## LionOfJudah (May 27, 2003)

My only question is....

Whats the National Language of the Spurs? Their lineup is more imported than the Mavs...

But anyways, I'll give that Twovles guy credit. That was an good comment. Didn't expect it from him because his normal posts aren't that... umm... thought out IMO.

I wish the season would just start so we can stop talking trash and start posting things like; Damn.... Dirk put up another 40 points.


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## sheefo13 (Jul 13, 2002)

ok the wolves are a good defnsive team, pretty much the only player on this team that cant play defense is wally
kevin garnett was on the first team all-defensive, sprewell has always been a good defender, sam cassell is an underrated defender and averaged 1.18 steals over his career, sprewell has averaged 1.54 steals over his career and made it to the all defensive second team before. troy hudson is also a pretty good defender because he is quick, madsen also is a pretty good defender. ebi was one of the better defensive players in the draft, blocked 2 shots in the mcdonalds all american game, blocked 3 shots and had 3 steals in the jordan capital classic, averaged 3.5 blocks last season in high school and was one of the premeir shot blockers in high school. did i mention ebi is 6 9!
olowokandi aneraged 2.19 blocks last season also. gary trent will slow down a lot of players. and ervin johnson has averaged more rebounds than blocks in his career


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## INTELLECT (Nov 22, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>stevemc</b>!
> My only question is....
> 
> Whats the National Language of the Spurs? Their lineup is more imported than the Mavs...
> ...


i think dirk will be a more all around player this year. He put up 3 dimes last year and I can see him putting up 4 or 5 in that offense. He can focus more on rebounding and maybe even play *gasp* a lil defense cause he won't have to put up major point totals every night with jamison there. and sheefo is just saying that cause espn has the mavs ranked higher than his wolves.


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## sheefo13 (Jul 13, 2002)

just because this one person at espn ranked the mavs higher than the wolves isnt because im mad, its because how high you think of the players on the mavs, just because one player is brought in and he will be a totaly become a diffrent player, a more all around player? kg has averaged 20 10 and 5 the past 4 years, he may as well average a triple double this next season, right?


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## INTELLECT (Nov 22, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>sheefo13</b>!
> ok the wolves are a good defnsive team, pretty much the only player on this team that cant play defense is wally
> kevin garnett was on the first team all-defensive, sprewell has always been a good defender, sam cassell is an underrated defender and averaged 1.18 steals over his career, sprewell has averaged 1.54 steals over his career and made it to the all defensive second team before. troy hudson is also a pretty good defender because he is quick, madsen also is a pretty good defender. ebi was one of the better defensive players in the draft, blocked 2 shots in the mcdonalds all american game, blocked 3 shots and had 3 steals in the jordan capital classic, averaged 3.5 blocks last season in high school and was one of the premeir shot blockers in high school. did i mention ebi is 6 9!
> olowokandi aneraged 2.19 blocks last season also. gary trent will slow down a lot of players. and ervin johnson has averaged more rebounds than blocks in his career


[email protected] mentionng madsen. [email protected] ebi. [email protected] defense. Raef and Bradley blocked mad shots a game. does that make them dope? ANd kg has problems guarding dirk (torches the heck outta him) webber, duncan and just about any other elite pf. [email protected] being a good defender. Since when? The bucks were one of the worst defensive teams in the nba the past few years and cassell was a big reason for that. Who cares what spree has done ONE TIME? he's not a good defender anymore. I told yall. this cat brought up defense because he thinks his wolves are a "great defensive team" and they aren't.


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## INTELLECT (Nov 22, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>sheefo13</b>!
> just because this one person at espn ranked the mavs higher than the wolves isnt because im mad, its because how high you think of the players on the mavs, just because one player is brought in and he will be a totaly become a diffrent player, a more all around player? kg has averaged 20 10 and 5 the past 4 years, he may as well average a triple double this next season, right?


dirk has improved a different part of his game every year. man I'm through talking to you. it's obvious your bball knowledge is just terrible. cat brings up defense and how good the wolves will be this year when they've never EVEN GOTTEN outta round 1.be realistic. with all the moves the wolves made they STILL might not got outta round 1


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## sheefo13 (Jul 13, 2002)

tell me, did the wolves have sprewell or cassell. madsen is a decent defender. sprewell plays defense. dallas has always been a horrible defensive team
the reason i bring defense up is because you said the wolves arent a good defensive team. you are just plain stupid. you know nothing at all. did you say ebi is a bad defensive player? wow, you have no bball knowledge. he is was one of the best defensive players in high school last year.you gatta be smoking something


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## sheefo13 (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>INTELLECT</b>!
> 
> 
> dirk has improved a different part of his game every year. man I'm through talking to you. it's obvious your bball knowledge is just terrible. cat brings up defense and how good the wolves will be this year when they've never EVEN GOTTEN outta round 1.be realistic. with all the moves the wolves made they STILL might not got outta round 1


has dirk proven that he plays defense? maybe passes the ball a little?


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## Dragnsmke1 (Jul 29, 2002)

So a good High school defender is gonna stop Dirk or Jamison...


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## INTELLECT (Nov 22, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>sheefo13</b>!
> tell me, did the wolves have sprewell or cassell. madsen is a decent defender. sprewell plays defense. dallas has always been a horrible defensive team
> the reason i bring defense up is because you said the wolves arent a good defensive team. you are just plain stupid. you know nothing at all. did you say ebi is a bad defensive player? wow, you have no bball knowledge. he is was one of the best defensive players in high school last year.you gatta be smoking something



man ebi was a good defender in highschool? wow! he's gonna be all nba first team defensively cause of that alone. I could have sworn that korleone young was a great offensive player in highschool. I wonder what happened to him? spree is not the same type of defender he was awhile back. cassell is not a good defender. LOL I don't know where you got that garbage from


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## Stinger (Jun 10, 2003)

Man. Why you two have to have a flame war for every topic in the Dallas forum. It's good to put out your opinions, but don't be dissing on the person. We all have our opinions and are entitled to them.

NO ONE KNOWS FOR SURE HOW THE NEXT SEASON IS GOING TO PAN OUT.


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## sheefo13 (Jul 13, 2002)

will you guys stop putting words in my mouth. he will be an above average defender in the nba, may make the second team all defense one year. i didnt say he was going to be a great defender, he is defenetly a better defender than abdul wahad


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## kaniffmn (Jul 29, 2003)

i got your back sheefo...

just for the sake of argument...sam cassell and sprewell did not have a fella by the name of kevin garnett behind them on their teams. he will definitely help get those guys the respect they deserve on defense. not to mention the addition of olowokandi to the team. the woofies are a way better defensive team than you give credit for. for you to say kevin garnett isn't a good defender is like me saying dirk isn't a good scorer...it's just retarded to say anything like that. oh yeah, and about that bull sh*t about dirk putting up similar to garnetts with 20-10-5, that's plain ignorant. he won't play defense because he simply has no d. his passing sucks also, getting rid of van exel is going to limiti his assists anyway, cuz jamison can't shoot as good as exel. you talk about players gettin eaten up, dirk's gotten his fair share...he gets outplayed everytime he steps up against the big time players, you are so so lucky that webber got hurt in the playoffs and that the blazers didn't beat you in that final game. KG outplays his opposing player damn near every game. us getting eliminated in the playoffs yet again....so what, i don't care how far the mavericks made it, i don't remember...did they win the championship??? bradley and lafrentz....don't make me laugh...haha, those guys are a joke, nothing more than that. need i mention weak *** najera. now...onto the ebi thing...who in the hell did the mavs draft??? josh howard??? wow...big difference than ebi. i'll give credit where credit is due...the mavs made a great deal getting jamison and fortson. this all makes the midwest that much more exciting to watch. you can be sure that someone from the midwest will win the championship this year (spurs, mavs, or wolves). as of now, the wolves are the superior defensive team over the mavs, the mavs have offense over the wolves. every game the two play will come down to matchups. all i know is the wolves aren't done yet. they intend to bring in a couple more players before the season starts. i'll tell you this though...of those three teams, i just don't see the mavericks getting it done. the wolves, just cuz i'm from there, and it's gonna be the best team we've ever had, i have to go into the season with confidence that we will get there. but right now, the spurs have to be the odds on favorite. now ya'll can settle your beef...cuz i done said my piece.


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## Tristan (Jan 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>kaniffmn</b>!
> i got your back sheefo...
> 
> just for the sake of argument...sam cassell and sprewell did not have a fella by the name of kevin garnett behind them on their teams. he will definitely help get those guys the respect they deserve on defense. not to mention the addition of olowokandi to the team. the woofies are a way better defensive team than you give credit for. for you to say kevin garnett isn't a good defender is like me saying dirk isn't a good scorer...it's just retarded to say anything like that. oh yeah, and about that bull sh*t about dirk putting up similar to garnetts with 20-10-5, that's plain ignorant. he won't play defense because he simply has no d. his passing sucks also, getting rid of van exel is going to limiti his assists anyway, cuz jamison can't shoot as good as exel. you talk about players gettin eaten up, dirk's gotten his fair share...he gets outplayed everytime he steps up against the big time players, you are so so lucky that webber got hurt in the playoffs and that the blazers didn't beat you in that final game. KG outplays his opposing player damn near every game. us getting eliminated in the playoffs yet again....so what, i don't care how far the mavericks made it, i don't remember...did they win the championship??? bradley and lafrentz....don't make me laugh...haha, those guys are a joke, nothing more than that. need i mention weak *** najera. now...onto the ebi thing...who in the hell did the mavs draft??? josh howard??? wow...big difference than ebi. i'll give credit where credit is due...the mavs made a great deal getting jamison and fortson. this all makes the midwest that much more exciting to watch. you can be sure that someone from the midwest will win the championship this year (spurs, mavs, or wolves). as of now, the wolves are the superior defensive team over the mavs, the mavs have offense over the wolves. every game the two play will come down to matchups. all i know is the wolves aren't done yet. they intend to bring in a couple more players before the season starts. i'll tell you this though...of those three teams, i just don't see the mavericks getting it done. the wolves, just cuz i'm from there, and it's gonna be the best team we've ever had, i have to go into the season with confidence that we will get there. but right now, the spurs have to be the odds on favorite. now ya'll can settle your beef...cuz i done said my piece.


Dirk still dominates Kg in every game.:sigh: KG only cares about his stats and very is very ignorant. :sigh:


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## kaniffmn (Jul 29, 2003)

ignorant???? for a guy who's the most unselfish player in the league he's ignorant??? he could go out and shoot the ball every time if he wanted to...that doesn't help the team. he's putting up numbers of 20-10-5 every single night, to find that ignorant and only caring for his own numbers is ignorant...especially with the teams we've had in recent years with no help for him. i can't wait til november 29th to see what you guys post then.


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## mavsman (Jun 11, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>kaniffmn</b>!
> i got your back sheefo...


Wow, another genius chimes in. [strike]Where do these idiots come
from. One idiot has the back of the other idiot. Its like whatching
the 3 stooges.[/strike]sorry, can't allow you to call people names



> us getting eliminated in the playoffs yet again....so what, i don't care how far the mavericks made it, i don't remember...did they win the championship???


Of course you don't care how far the Mavs went because that
would be using facts and you never want to let facts interfere
with your ignorant rantings.



> getting rid of van exel is going to limiti his assists anyway, cuz jamison can't shoot as good as exel.


Aside from the grammar, getting rid of Van Excel is going to limit
Dirk's assists because (sorry cuz) Jamison doesn't shoot as well
as NVE. Interesting, you may want to open up a stat sheet.
Jamison shot 47% from the floor and Nick shot 46%. 



> now...onto the ebi thing...who in the hell did the mavs draft??? josh howard??? wow...big difference than ebi.


Where do I begin here? Lets see a pencil thin highschool kid is
the same as the 1st team All-American, ACC Player of the Year
and 4-year college player. Ebi will do nothing in the NBA for at
least 3 years if then. I actually like Ebi but I don't think the Mavs
want to wait 3-4 years before he could be of any use to an NBA club.
Howard is a player, oh by the way he also the top defensive
player in the ACC. Howard dominated in summer league and he
will step onto this powerhouse team and will be a good
contributor with his defense and rebounding. What exactly will
Ebi be doing for the Wolves, carrying KGs bags?
This comparison is laughable at best.



> i'll give credit where credit is due...the mavs made a great deal getting jamison and fortson. this all makes the midwest that much more exciting to watch. you can be sure that someone from the midwest will win the championship this year (spurs, mavs, or wolves).


We Mavs fans sure do appreciate you all giving some credit. I
am not quite sure how you leave off (Lakers and Kings) though.


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## TDaddy25 (Aug 25, 2003)

HAHAHA, I know i did not read Garnett only cares about stats. 20, 10, 5, whats that, 20 points, 10 boards, and 5 assist by a guy that is 7 foot!! that why his team has won 50+ games in the past seasons? only worries about stats?? this is the same player barkley and other nba analyst criticized for not being greedy enough and taking the big shot in the 4th quarter come playoff time?? but stats is only thing on his mind? if that was the case, he would have been p*ssed off at the world for not being the league MVP last season, which he was. More triple doubles and double doubles in the league, and he play forward. Best plus/minus rating in the league. But he worries about stats. Josh Howard, wow, give Dallas a ring right now!! Why did we take ebi, because we dont need to use him right now, we drafted for the future. drafted by the same team that took its time with KG and look at him now, Best player in the game. And for the fact KG gets lit up every time he plays Dirk, Duncan or and Elite PF, KG does the same to them. Did we forget Dirk dont play D? 20,10,5 and he plays elite PF almost everynight, and still putting numbers up?? he gets torched by every elite PF?? Why is he a 1st team all defensive player?? Why was he top five in votes for defensive player of the year last year behind B Wallace and Artest, who both play in the east? If he gets lit up all the time, why are these voters voting for him?? Why he is all 1st team?? Cuz he doesnt get that "lit" up. Get off talking bad on KG, you will lose that one.
Tdaddy holla at me i made my point


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## Tristan (Jan 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>TDaddy25</b>!
> HAHAHA, I know i did not read Garnett only cares about stats. 20, 10, 5, whats that, 20 points, 10 boards, and 5 assist by a guy that is 7 foot!! that why his team has won 50+ games in the past seasons? only worries about stats?? this is the same player barkley and other nba analyst criticized for not being greedy enough and taking the big shot in the 4th quarter come playoff time?? but stats is only thing on his mind? if that was the case, he would have been p*ssed off at the world for not being the league MVP last season, which he was. More triple doubles and double doubles in the league, and he play forward. Best plus/minus rating in the league. But he worries about stats. Josh Howard, wow, give Dallas a ring right now!! Why did we take ebi, because we dont need to use him right now, we drafted for the future. drafted by the same team that took its time with KG and look at him now, Best player in the game. And for the fact KG gets lit up every time he plays Dirk, Duncan or and Elite PF, KG does the same to them. Did we forget Dirk dont play D? 20,10,5 and he plays elite PF almost everynight, and still putting numbers up?? he gets torched by every elite PF?? Why is he a 1st team all defensive player?? Why was he top five in votes for defensive player of the year last year behind B Wallace and Artest, who both play in the east? If he gets lit up all the time, why are these voters voting for him?? Why he is all 1st team?? Cuz he doesnt get that "lit" up. Get off talking bad on KG, you will lose that one.
> Tdaddy holla at me i made my point


Dawg, he cant even guard Dirk. If he actually got dirk into a 15ppg or lower next season, ill kiss your feet and Kg's feet for doing that. Then Ill call him the 1st defensive all team and tell him Tim Duncan fears him.


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## Tristan (Jan 13, 2003)

> What exactly will Ebi be doing for the Wolves, carrying KGs bags? This comparison is laughable at best.


:laugh: :laugh: 

Made me fall out of my chair.


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## TDaddy25 (Aug 25, 2003)

Can Dirk gaurd KG?? Is drik 1st team all defesive player?? KG is and you are saying he cant stop dirk?? Dirk is a great offensive player, yea, but why is kg getting defesive credit around the league and with the voters if he cant stop someone?? Put KG's box score next to dirks the first time the play and it may show dirk scoring more, but KG will have attempted 10 less shots, have more rebounds assist and blocks. dirk doesnt even compair to KG, dirk isnt even a top 5 player in the league and KG is.


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## LionOfJudah (May 27, 2003)

So if KG is going to shut down Dirk... According to Twolves fans. Who's going to keep Jamison from abusing Wally?


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## INTELLECT (Nov 22, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>kaniffmn</b>!
> i got your back sheefo...
> 
> just for the sake of argument...sam cassell and sprewell did not have a fella by the name of kevin garnett behind them on their teams. he will definitely help get those guys the respect they deserve on defense. not to mention the addition of olowokandi to the team. the woofies are a way better defensive team than you give credit for. for you to say kevin garnett isn't a good defender is like me saying dirk isn't a good scorer...it's just retarded to say anything like that. oh yeah, and about that bull sh*t about dirk putting up similar to garnetts with 20-10-5, that's plain ignorant.


so dirk putting up 25, 10, and 3 isn't on kg's level right? LOL. Man tell kg to learn how to guard dirk. 34 ppg last year 33 ppg in the mavs sweep of the wolves. Kg cannot guard dirk. Wally cannot guard jamison. Yall are in trouble cause yall have NO ONE WHO CAN GUARD EITHER ONE OF THE MAVS FORWARDS. If you double the forwards then nash and fin will make you pay. Kg outplays NO ONE in the playoffs. For christ sakes dude has 2 career 30 point games in his PLAYOFF CAREER. Who cares if you getting 20 10 and 5 if your MAN IS PUTTING 30 PLUS on you every time they face off?


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## Stinger (Jun 10, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>INTELLECT</b>!
> 
> 
> so dirk putting up 25, 10, and 3 isn't on kg's level right? LOL. Man tell kg to learn how to guard dirk. 34 ppg last year 33 ppg in the mavs sweep of the wolves. Kg cannot guard dirk. Wally cannot guard jamison. Yall are in trouble cause yall have NO ONE WHO CAN GUARD EITHER ONE OF THE MAVS FORWARDS. If you double the forwards then nash and fin will make you pay. Kg outplays NO ONE in the playoffs. For christ sakes dude has 2 career 30 point games in his PLAYOFF CAREER. Who cares if you getting 20 10 and 5 if your MAN IS PUTTING 30 PLUS on you every time they face off?


:yes: :yes: :yes: 

Kg's a good defensive player. But when he defends Dirk, he looks like Shawn Bradley. So what's the use of all that defensive ability if you can't stop who your guarding? Or at least contain him?

Yes he may grab rebounds better than Dirk, but he can't score like Dirk. I recall last year's playoffs when the Mavs only grabbed a couple rebounds throughout a whole game. Dirk had no rebounds I think. The next game, he told himself and the media that that wasn't going to happen again. Then next game, double digit rebounds. 

Garnett couldn't put up at least 30 in a playoff game if he tried his hardest. It'll be hard now this season, now that the T-Wolves have Cassell, Spree, and Wally all chucking up shots to better their own personal stats.


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## TDaddy25 (Aug 25, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Stinger</b>!
> 
> 
> :yes: :yes: :yes:
> ...



KG had better numbers last playoffs than Dirk
KG- 27,15,5
Dirk- 25,11,3

and your happy dirk had double digit rebounds, he is 7 foot!!! 4 less a game than Garnett in the playoff, and shaq went against the most dominating player of this time and one of the most ever, SHAQ. KG never has went through a game with NO REBOUNDS.


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## Dragnsmke1 (Jul 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>TDaddy25</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


And thats with Dirk sharing the ball with 3 other all-stars. Finley Nash,and NVE. Wow Dirk is good!!!


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## Stinger (Jun 10, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>TDaddy25</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Height isn't the biggest factor in rebounding. Ala Dennis Rodman and Big Ben Wallace. 

T-Wolves didn't have anyone else who could score last playoffs. Garnett was the go to guy and he only averaged 2 more points than Dirk. KG has good offensive talent, it's just that Dirk is on a whole different level. A level KG can't contain. 





> shaq went against the most dominating player of this time and one of the most ever, SHAQ.


I don't understand that sentence.


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## texan (Jul 10, 2003)

that is crazy putting the spurs as the 5th best team in the west. they dont have the big name palyers like all the other teams do but this year their players like parker and ginobili will start to become the new big name guys taking the place of the sprees and cassells. also duncan makes every player he plays with like 18 times better. in minny nesterovic had NO help in the post cuz kg played outside most of the time. he will flourish with duncan. also he is a much better offensive player than drob las yr. plus we added hedo and mercer for danny ferry who jus sat at the end of our bench las yr. anthony carter will make up for what we lost in speedy claxton and stehphen jackson only looked good cuz he was the number 2 scoring option and was told to shoot. he turned the ball over so many times im glad hes gone. the spurs should be at least 3 if not 2nd.

spurs vs mavs

nash vs parker- lightning quick parker can keep up with nash but nash is still better
finley vs manu- finley has the advantage on scoring but manu does so many things that helps his team win
jamison vs bowen- bowen will shut down jamison
duncan vs nowitski- duncan takes it
lafrentz vs nesterovic- nesterovic takes it

bench- najera, bell, welsch, fortson vs hedo, mercer, carter, rose
both are great and about equal

i would take the spurs over the mavs cuz Defense rules

spurs vs minny

cassell vs parker- when parker is on he is better than cassell, if he plays consistently this yr then i take him in a heartbeat
spree vs manu- spree if he can adjust to his new role and isnt playin like an old man. depends on manus develpment
wally vs bowen- wally is the most 1demensional player in the L and bowen will easily shut him down.
kg vs duncan- tie two best playrs in L
kandi vs nesterovic- kandi is a big stiff. nesterovic is solid an will accell with duncan

bench: hudson, johnson,trent vs rose, mercer, hedo, carter
spurs have the advantage


spurs vs kings

parker vs bibby- bibby wins
manu vs christie- manu wins
bowen vs peja- peja
duncan vs webber- duncan
nesterovic vs divacs- nesterovic. how old is divacs now? 42?

bench: wallace, brad miller(wonnt do as good in west), jackson, fa replacing jj(?) vs rose, carter , hedo and mercer

overall i think the only team the spurs might have trouble with is the mavs but who knows i could be wrong


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## Tristan (Jan 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>texan</b>!
> that is crazy putting the spurs as the 5th best team in the west. they dont have the big name palyers like all the other teams do but this year their players like parker and ginobili will start to become the new big name guys taking the place of the sprees and cassells. also duncan makes every player he plays with like 18 times better. in minny nesterovic had NO help in the post cuz kg played outside most of the time. he will flourish with duncan. also he is a much better offensive player than drob las yr. plus we added hedo and mercer for danny ferry who jus sat at the end of our bench las yr. anthony carter will make up for what we lost in speedy claxton and stehphen jackson only looked good cuz he was the number 2 scoring option and was told to shoot. he turned the ball over so many times im glad hes gone. the spurs should be at least 3 if not 2nd.
> 
> spurs vs mavs
> ...


Um...where did this come from?


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## Tristan (Jan 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Dragnsmke1</b>!
> 
> 
> And thats with Dirk sharing the ball with 3 other all-stars. Finley Nash,and NVE. Wow Dirk is good!!!


Also you should've mentioned, DIRK ALSO PLAYED MORE GAMES THAN KG IN THE PLAYOFFS.


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## LionOfJudah (May 27, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>texan</b>!
> 
> 
> spurs vs mavs
> ...


Jamison would just post up bowen, and dirk would hang out around the three point line. And with Najera, Shawn B, and Fortson coming off the bench we could play hack the MVP if we had to.


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## Dragnsmke1 (Jul 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>texan</b>!
> that is crazy putting the spurs as the 5th best team in the west. they dont have the big name palyers like all the other teams do but this year their players like parker and ginobili will start to become the new big name guys taking the place of the sprees and cassells. also duncan makes every player he plays with like 18 times better. in minny nesterovic had NO help in the post cuz kg played outside most of the time. he will flourish with duncan. also he is a much better offensive player than drob las yr. plus we added hedo and mercer for danny ferry who jus sat at the end of our bench las yr. anthony carter will make up for what we lost in speedy claxton and stehphen jackson only looked good cuz he was the number 2 scoring option and was told to shoot. he turned the ball over so many times im glad hes gone. the spurs should be at least 3 if not 2nd.
> 
> spurs vs mavs
> ...


The Spurs are the best team in the NBA right now. Thats why theyre defending champs...Where is this coming from?

Spurs
Mavs
Kings
Lakers
Wolves

thats my order.


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## TDaddy25 (Aug 25, 2003)

The skinny: Believe it or not, the T-Wolves aren't that far behind the Mavs and Lakers. They have the most balanced starting five of any of the teams and have a nice mixture of youth and veteran leadership. They have scrappy guards, a couple of nice perimeter shooters, one of the top three forwards in the league in Garnett, and a center who, if he gets his head on straight, still has the potential to be an All-Star. The other thing the Wolves have going for them? They're hungry. After seven consecutive first-round exits, no one wants it more than Minnesota. The negatives? A very thin bench and a plethora of chemistry issues. Not one of these guys has a rep of being easy to get along with. Will they kill the competition or kill each other? 

and you rate minny 5???

my list
Sactown
Minny
LA
Spurs
Mavs

height isnt everything in rebounding, but when your 7 foot and cant get ONE rebound in a game, thats horrible. Dirk has not played in many more playoff games than KG anyways, KG was there befroe Dirk and dirk always seems to get hurt, like he is now. Dirk plays with 3 all stars and that makes his numbers better???? KG gets 10 boards and 5 assist a night with who on his side??? Wally??? give me a break, that just shows how KG carries his team single handedly to 50+ win year after Year. Dirk plays with Nash and Finley and did with Van Exel, and only got 3 assist a game??? where is that amazing. He should average a triple double with that help.


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## INTELLECT (Nov 22, 2002)

[email protected] containing jamison. In what lifetime? Bowen would prolly guard dirk cause there's no way that bowen can defend JAMISON down low. Dirk would be a better matchup for him


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## Lakers_32_4ever (Dec 30, 2002)

A few things... Dirk didn't "share the ball" with three other all-stars. Note the three assists a game, and the fact that Nash is the only other all-star on the team.

Also... the TWolves top three in the playoffs- Garnett, Hudson, Sczerbiak averaged 64 ppg combined versus the Mavs top 3- Dirk, Nick, Fin who averaged 63.1 ppg, so yea, Garnett also had to share with good scorers in the playoffs.

Also, Garnett is four time first team all defense. PLus, you guys shouldn't be justifying DIrk's d by saying KG's is bad. Try defending Dirk's defense. 

Also, Jamison played inside a bit more than Van Exel did and so his percentage was better. To the person who says the stat number is all that matters, is Eddy Curry ( the field goal percentage champ), a better shooter than Ray Allen, or Peja pr Dirk? Obviously not, but he shot higher from the field, so therefore yes. Btw, Jamison shoots a higher percentage than any other Maverick and thus is their best shooter, better than Fin, Nash, and Dirk. Yup, that's it. Jamison is a better shooter than NVE, just as the three best shooters in NBA history are Artis Gilmore, Mark West, and Shaq. Yup.

Obviously, the Mavs have a much better starting lineup than the T-wolves, because of capabilities and togetherness, maybe not on pure talent. And just because someone doesn't have an avatar of some team, doesn't mean they can't defend it. Also, someone can pick on another team in comparison to a better team, even though the team they support is worse than both. 

P.s. The Lakers average age is 27.3 something.
The mavericks average age is 27.4 something.
So ha, and stop cracking jokes about our age when you guys are actually older.


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## Jacres318 (Jun 8, 2003)

what did you add you age to the lakers roster? :laugh:. I'm tired of arguing so that's all i'll say. Mavs don't have more pure talent than the wolves? someone else will bring that up.


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## Tristan (Jan 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>TDaddy25</b>!
> The skinny: Believe it or not, the T-Wolves aren't that far behind the Mavs and Lakers. They have the most balanced starting five of any of the teams and have a nice mixture of youth and veteran leadership. They have scrappy guards, a couple of nice perimeter shooters, one of the top three forwards in the league in Garnett, and a center who, if he gets his head on straight, still has the potential to be an All-Star. The other thing the Wolves have going for them? They're hungry. After seven consecutive first-round exits, no one wants it more than Minnesota. The negatives? A very thin bench and a plethora of chemistry issues. Not one of these guys has a rep of being easy to get along with. Will they kill the competition or kill each other?
> 
> and you rate minny 5???
> ...


I agree, Twolves arent that far behind the mavericks and the other top 3 west contenders. But they are still no better than the mavericks. 

Your a dumb****, when I said Dirk played more games than KG, i meant this years playoffs. KG only played a couple of games with the lakers in the first round thats why he stat sheet was so high. Dirk had played more than 16+ games Im sure. KG played what?4 in the playoffs? So read more! 

I know its your opinion, but your opinion sucks! Your list sucks also because everyone knows Spurs are way over your lil minny. Only reason you put Sac there at first was because you didn't want people to know that your only thinking of your team to be number one and people not to shout at you. Well your a dumbass! 

My list:

Spurs
Mavericks/Sacramento - tie
Minnesota/LA - tie


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## LionOfJudah (May 27, 2003)

> P.s. The Lakers average age is 27.3 something.
> The mavericks average age is 27.4 something.
> So ha, and stop cracking jokes about our age when you guys are actually older.


Age is a number, but when 2 of your starters are more than likely to retire next year along with another on the bench. For the mavs, the only person that might retire is Shawn B. And some might argue thats a good thing.


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