# Marty Collins under Dantoni



## Kiyaman (Aug 14, 2006)

*For those who like or dislike Marty Collins, here's a decent question concerning how well Dantoni can coach young players into his system.* 

Can and will coach Dantoni improve 6.6 PG-Marty Collins performance this season where the next team will want his services on their roster before the trading deadline? 

I seen the leadership performance in PG-Marty Collins talents and skillz on the court at Temple and in the NBA. Collins has started out his NBA career just like PG-Chauncey Billups who has been one of the NBA Top 5 PG in the league the last 5 years. 

The Knicks broadcast announcer Walt Clyde Frazier seen so much potential in Marty Collins rookie season that he wanted to train him over the offseason to teach him how to take advantage of the 20 foot jumpshots that his height allows him to take over smaller defenders, plus help him define his defensive skillz on certain NBA players. All in all ex Knick Frazier wanted to teach Marty Collins all the things that made him such a successful NBA player. Which never happen.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

i think the answer is a simple no.

mardy can defend to the point of disruption, he can board and start breaks , he can run your team and get them into plays , he can at times take players off the dribble and penetrate and even finish at the rim with some success.

but he cant shoot and if you are a guard and cant shoot D'Antoni has no use for you, they should have dealt him to denver instead of balkman, if there are injuries balkman can still be useful in the coach's sys. even if dantoni doesn't think he's ideal...lack of a shot isn't as big a deal as with guards.


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

Da Grinch said:


> i think the answer is a simple no.
> 
> mardy can defend to the point of disruption, he can board and start breaks , he can run your team and get them into plays , he can at times take players off the dribble and penetrate and even finish at the rim with some success.
> 
> but he cant shoot and if you are a guard and cant shoot D'Antoni has no use for you, they should have dealt him to denver instead of balkman, if there are injuries balkman can still be useful in the coach's sys. even if dantoni doesn't think he's ideal...lack of a shot isn't as big a deal as with guards.


Agreed except with sending Collins instead of Balkman in the Denver trade. I think Collins has the mechanics and overall form to be a solid mid-range shooter in the league. He just hasn't really found his stroke as of yet but that's what a shooting coach is for. Amare IMO was a mediocre if not poor jump shooter up until last year when D'Antoni's men helped him refine it. Balkman on the other hand, looked like his shooting touch was what your going to get for some time.


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## Kiyaman (Aug 14, 2006)

The worst shooting PG that I seen in the league with poor FG% and FT% was Jason Kidd. It's just his assist (9) and rebounds (6) totals made him into a 37 mpg PG.

Collins has never been given the consistent PT to prove himself with a decent coach at the helm.


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## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

TwinkieFoot said:


> Agreed except with sending Collins instead of Balkman in the Denver trade. I think Collins has the mechanics and overall form to be a solid mid-range shooter in the league. He just hasn't really found his stroke as of yet but that's what a shooting coach is for. Amare IMO was a mediocre if not poor jump shooter up until last year when D'Antoni's men helped him refine it. Balkman on the other hand, looked like his shooting touch was what your going to get for some time.



Amare is a post player. Collins could be a decent back-up in D'Antoni's system but he won't be a starter as he struggles as a shooter.


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

bball2223 said:


> Amare is a post player. Collins could be a decent back-up in D'Antoni's system but he won't be a starter as he struggles as a shooter.


Yeah, a post player without any post moves. The guy gets his points from jump shots, drives to the basket and slick passes from Steve Nash; mostly from slick passes from Nash. Mardy could score in a similar fashion and showed signs of a back to the basket game which would come in handy against opponents that are not nearly as tall or as strong as he is.


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

Kiyaman said:


> The worst shooting PG that I seen in the league with poor FG% and FT% was Jason Kidd. It's just his assist (9) and rebounds (6) totals made him into a 37 mpg PG.
> 
> Collins has never been given the consistent PT to prove himself with a decent coach at the helm.


Jason Kidd actually shot free throws at a 78% clip throughout career so clearly he is not a poor free throw shooter.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

TwinkieFoot said:


> Agreed except with sending Collins instead of Balkman in the Denver trade. I think Collins has the mechanics and overall form to be a solid mid-range shooter in the league. He just hasn't really found his stroke as of yet but that's what a shooting coach is for. Amare IMO was a mediocre if not poor jump shooter up until last year when D'Antoni's men helped him refine it. Balkman on the other hand, looked like his shooting touch was what your going to get for some time.



collins has good mechanics i agree , but i just dont think he is anywhere near a decent shooter , he just never has been , not in college high school aau or the pro's.

he may develop an avery johnson level mid range one day ...but i dont want to wait while he develops it as he is glued to the bench.


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## alphaorange (Jul 2, 2006)

*Collins value is in his defensive potential*

He doesn't have touch, regardless of form, and his handle is an adventure, at best, against pressure. Fringe player.


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## Kiyaman (Aug 14, 2006)

*Re: Collins value is in his defensive potential*



alphaorange said:


> He doesn't have touch, regardless of form, and his handle is an adventure, at best, against pressure. Fringe player.


So your saying coach Dantoni cant help Collins improve his weak areas of the game. 
Was Marty Collins worth investing Walt Frazier as a coach for just one year?


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## USSKittyHawk (Jul 22, 2005)

I'm not a fan of Mardy, he doesn't protect the basketball and I don't see him running our offense effectively, move him it won't be a big loss.


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## knicksfan (Jan 4, 2003)

I have to disagree with a few of you here. I like Nate/Mardy together as a change of pace PG situation, as they seem to offer the complete opposite package. I agree that Mardy has a little bit of Billups in him, and can become that type of point, while I think Nate can be a solid bench scorer. Problem is, Duhon IS your future starter because he's the PERFECT point in D'Antoni's system. Now we need to buy out Steph, and not let him touch the court. I really think a system with Duhon starting, Mardy backing him up and Nate at third string PG would be really good. I actually don't think our roster is THAT awful if Mike uses it right.


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## djtoneblaze (Nov 22, 2004)

knicksfan said:


> I have to disagree with a few of you here. I like Nate/Mardy together as a change of pace PG situation, as they seem to offer the complete opposite package. I agree that Mardy has a little bit of Billups in him, and can become that type of point, while I think Nate can be a solid bench scorer. Problem is, Duhon IS your future starter because he's the PERFECT point in D'Antoni's system. Now we need to buy out Steph, and not let him touch the court. I really think a system with Duhon starting, Mardy backing him up and Nate at third string PG would be really good. I actually don't think our roster is THAT awful if Mike uses it right.


A rejuvanted Marbury really IS the best option for the Knicks (assuming you're trying to win games; the Knicks are still in a rebuilding mode so they might as well prepare for a high draft pick); if you're counting on Duhon to be your starting point guard then you might as well get ready to compete for that top 3 lottery spot again. The best bet would be to give Collins good minutes and try to trade him at the deadline and/or trade David Lee (their best trading chip) for a legitimate point guard. At the same time, I guess they could wait until next year and hope for Brandon Jennings.


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## knicksfan (Jan 4, 2003)

djtoneblaze said:


> A rejuvanted Marbury really IS the best option for the Knicks (assuming you're trying to win games; the Knicks are still in a rebuilding mode so they might as well prepare for a high draft pick); if you're counting on Duhon to be your starting point guard then you might as well get ready to compete for that top 3 lottery spot again. The best bet would be to give Collins good minutes and try to trade him at the deadline and/or trade David Lee (their best trading chip) for a legitimate point guard. At the same time, I guess they could wait until next year and hope for Brandon Jennings.


We might disagree on what rejuvenated means for Marbury. He's in a contract year, so I definetly see your point, but to me a "rejuvinated" Mabrury is nothing short of a 20-10 player (what he was before he came to the Knicks.)


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