# Magloire for #7 and #16 being discussed



## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

Wow...NO trying to draft a starting lineup... 



> If the deal is made, the Hornets would have three picks in the first round.
> 
> It could be a struggle for the Hornets next month to land a high-profile free agent, so it appears they want to build through the draft to get a much-needed small forward or power forward in addition to selecting a point guard with their No. 4 pick.
> 
> League sources said the Hornets want the deal, but Toronto is somewhat hesitant about having to give up both of its first-round picks. There is a chance the Raptors could be more willing to give up their No. 7 pick and offer one of their current players as part of the deal.


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## bruno34115 (Apr 14, 2003)

I fail to see why Toronto would consider this. They would surely do 16 for Magloire but if I was them I wouldn't even do 7 let alone 7 and 16..


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## The Future7 (Feb 24, 2005)

I hope Toronto agrees to this Deal. NO is rebuilding around Smith so this should be good. Isnt Magloire from Canada, maybe thats a reason for the trade.


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

That's just funny. NO could get a more logical deal from someone else which would be abetter deal, and they could get a pick and at least someone in return to build around. That deal would make no sense. They must want one of the PGs, Granger, and who knows?


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## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

#2 for #4, #7, #16..


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

Being that Magloire is from Canada and might be a marquee player for that franchise, I think he might be worth a #7 pick for the Raps. He and Bosh would certainly be a solid, young front line for years to come. 

However, in no way is he worth both first rounders.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

The Hornets could get Chris Paul, Danny Granger and Andrew Bynum out of this draft.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

1. Magliore is a free agent after the 06-07 season. (when Rose goes off the books and enough cap space is created). 

2. The Raps can build through the draft around Bosh for the next two years (including the 7 and 16 this year) + two first rounders next year.

3. Magliore wants to play in Toronto.

4. Even with Magliore this is a borderline playoff team for 06 and 07.

You tell me what the logical path Toronto should follow.


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## DHarris34Phan (Oct 28, 2004)

JuniorNoboa said:


> You tell me what the logical path Toronto should follow.


Wait till Magloire becomes a FA, and build the team with Bosh, #7, and #16.....


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

Draft picks are so overrated:

2004 Loul Deng/Kirk Snyder
2003 Kirk Hinrich/Troy Bell
2002 Nene/ Jiri Welsch
2001 Eddie Griffin/Kirk Haston
2000 Chris Mihm/Hedo
1999 Rip/Ron Artest
1998 J Will/Bryce Drew
1997 Tim Thomas/Brevin Knight
1996 Lorenzen Wright/Tony Delk
1995 Damon Stoudamire/Alan Henderson


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

Damian Necronamous said:


> The Hornets could get Chris Paul, Danny Granger and Andrew Bynum out of this draft.



If I'm the Raps, I prefer Granger and Bynum to Magloire.

Magloire is an FA in 2 years, which surprise, is when Rose is off the books and we have a ton of space.

Ah, Junior beat me to it.


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## Tooeasy (Nov 4, 2003)

Magloire is a proven player, and a double double every night. He's undoubtably a top 7 center when he's on the court uninjured, and is worth a couple of unproven draft picks in my eyes. It makes sense from both the teams standpoints, as magloire doesn't fit into byrons system very well and has made it known how much he loves his hometown toronto. He would boost fan moral and support up in canada by a mile, and the hornets would have the chance to get a couple very solid players and fill in holes they have at sf and pg much better.


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## RP McMurphy (Jul 17, 2003)

MemphisX said:


> Draft picks are so overrated:
> 
> 2004 Loul Deng/Kirk Snyder
> 2003 Kirk Hinrich/Troy Bell
> ...


:yes: :yes:


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

MemphisX said:


> Draft picks are so overrated:
> 
> 2004 Loul Deng/Kirk Snyder
> 2003 Kirk Hinrich/Troy Bell
> ...


I don't get your point in the context of this thread.

Who would be dumb enough NOT to trade the package of players from four of the last six years (1999, 2002, 2003, 2004) for * 2 years * or even multiple years of Jamaal Magliore.


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## Tooeasy (Nov 4, 2003)

good point. However, just look at the possibility of combinations of players if you slide just a couple draft picks up or down either way. Look at how many players completely miss the lottery and are still stars today. Its all about scouting, and I dont care what people say, this is going to be a very deep draft, we have players like robinson, bass, gomes, and hodge possibly going in the second round this year. If the hornets play their cards right, they could end up with d.williams, granger, diogu/bynum, and hodge/gomes, along with all of their caproom to sign some real contributers. This could be a very exciting hornets team next season, going from having one of the oldest rosters just a couple seasons ago to a team with almost the youngest nucleaus in the league.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

That Rip/Artest combo sux.

This draft is deeper than most if not all of those.

What will JM do to improve the Rap's fortunes right now. Bring them to the brink of making the playoffs. Big deal. All that does is ensure next year's pick, if it is not lost to CHA, is low enough that it is of little consequence. Mediocrity is purgatory in this league. You are better on the bottom than the middle. Tough to really get better from the middle.

NO and TOR are trying to do the same thing, get younger and deeper. This trade makes no sense as proposed by NO. They are allowed to propose it, but if Babcock does it I will hit the roof.


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## Tooeasy (Nov 4, 2003)

yes, it makes absolutely no sense at all from torontos standpoint.  By trading for Magloire and giving them the best front court in their division they have nowhere to go but down, right?


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

blowuptheraptors said:


> That Rip/Artest combo sux.
> 
> This draft is deeper than most if not all of those.
> 
> ...


Do you remember what your GM did in the last draft? 

Depending on him to draft you out of oblivion is quite funny. I am betting that 1 if not both of those picks will be busts if he does the drafting.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

MemphisX said:


> Do you remember what your GM did in the last draft?
> 
> Depending on him to draft you out of oblivion is quite funny. I am betting that 1 if not both of those picks will be busts if he does the drafting.


So that now your draft picks is overrated comment looks absolutely silly, and you get called on it, you then make fun of our team admin. Way to make conclusions on a SAMPLE SIZE OF ONE, WHERE THE GM WAS AROUND FOR A WEEK. 

Once again, Bang on post. Good job


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

JuniorNoboa said:


> So that now your draft picks is overrated comment looks absolutely silly, and you get called on it, you then make fun of our team admin. Way to make conclusions on a SAMPLE SIZE OF ONE, WHERE THE GM WAS AROUND FOR A WEEK.
> 
> Once again, Bang on post. Good job


How did I get called on it? Other than the Rip/Ron Artest combo...none are better than Magloire alone. Now if you want to live in fantasy land and presume that he is going to cherry pick the best talents in the draft...go right ahead because I don't care if he was on the job 1 day, I could have pulled a random poster off this board and they would have known Hoffa was not a lottery talent.

Also, what was his genius behind the VC trade and waiving Mourning when he simply could have let him sit and rot and saved the franchise money.


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## frank_white (Apr 20, 2005)

MemphisX said:


> Also, what was his genius behind ... waiving Mourning when he simply could have let him sit and rot and saved the franchise money.


Uh, dude, Babcock saved us all kinds of capspace by buying out Mourning's contract. Had Mourning rotted on the bench, it would of cost as twice as much over the next two years.


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## frank_white (Apr 20, 2005)

I don't like this trade either. But I will be that dork who chimes in with the proverbial "but it's so hard to find a good center" arguement, and propose something that might work from a Raptor's prespective. How about:

To NO

7 (Granger) and 16 in 2005
Denver's lotto protected pick in 2006
Eric Williams
Lamond Murray or Hoffa (I'm not a fan of Hoffa myself)

To Toronto

4th pick (Deron Williams or Chris Paul) 
Jmags


Toronto fills its two greatest needs (center and point guard) with quality players, and NO gets Granger and all kings of picks to rebuild with. They even get a young C to replace Mags if Hoffa's included.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

MemphisX said:


> Do you remember what your GM did in the last draft?
> 
> Depending on him to draft you out of oblivion is quite funny. I am betting that 1 if not both of those picks will be busts if he does the drafting.


This draft is so deep and he and the whole organisastion has scouted and scouted again. 

The simple fact is that this team is not ready to compete now and Magloire does not make them a 50-win team. He maybe makes them a 40-win team, if he stays healthy. Why mortage the future for 2 yrs of a centre when you can add two young players whose value should only improve.

And just to put you on the spot.

Who would Babcock have to draft at 7 and 16 for him to have "screwed up" yet again?


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

Quote from Rob Babcock from his Raptors insider installment



> Because of this depth, there has been a lot of interest in our draft picks. We're certainly open to trades, but we will not make a trade unless it helps our team for the future. We will not take a "band-aid" approach regarding trades. We could take the four first round picks we have in the next two years and translate that into some veteran players who would get us immediately into the playoffs. The problem with that approach is that though we might get right back into the playoffs, those players will age quickly and we'll be right back to square one (and with no players for the future).


http://www.nba.com/raptors/news/PreDraft_Update-144852-71.html


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## Tooeasy (Nov 4, 2003)

I'm just gonna repost what I stated in the raptors board, it was rather lengthy and I don't see anything wrong with stating my opinions twice. 

I think you guys are criminally underrating the capabilities of Magloire. He has NEVER been the go to guy in the hornets offensive system, he essentially never had plays run through him. For him to average 14 ppg in a scheme that he has to create plays for himself is pretty impressive if you ask me. When healthy, he is a top 5 rebounder in this league, and is the exact big body that you guys were looking for when drafting hoffa. Theres no reason to believe that he couldn't be an 18/11 guy if he just has some plays ran through him. You say that this team will be rebuilt around bosh, so whats better to compliment his growth than to put a big anchor in the middle that can grab boards, block some shots, and make shots when needed? 
Lets also discuss a possible scenario. If you guys draft granger/jack, what happens if jack just doesn't work out? looking back, trading granger for magloire would be a rather logical move, and you have to assume that two unproven draft picks being traded for an all star who hasn't been used to his full potential would be a good move on your part. Whats gonna happen when Magloire puts up 22/12 next season as an integral part of the hornets offense and you guys are kicking yourselves in the ***, struggling to win games with a couple rookies in your lineup? Bosh can only be patient for so long, you guys are talking like hes gonna stay around the organization while it struggles for years to win games, and I just don't see that happening. When looking into the near future, a front court of rose/bosh/magloire with alston running the offense has the chance to take your guys' division, now whether or not you can get out of the first round is debateable, but moves have to be made. You can't expect to sniff the playoffs for a while by building around draft picks with no caproom, unless you strike gold like the Bulls, but even then, look how many years and how much trial and error they went through. 
Lastly, both Baron and magloire were very disappointed with the hornets organization, and once Davis got outta there, look what he did. That golden state team can be sniffing the playoffs next year, and theres no reason to believe that Magloire couldn't have a similar(less drastic, however) turnaround once he gets out of NO and back to his hometown. The guy could break out become one of the elite centers in the league, and while its already been stated that you guys think you could sniff the playoffs next year(who cares if its a first round exit, its still exciting to have your team in the playoffs no matter what) you guys are content with keeping a couple draft picks and remaining a mediocre team for years, piing up draft picks and praying that your savior will come from some mid lottery picks.


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## abc1234567 (Feb 6, 2005)

The only time we've been wrong about a rumor was when Phil Jackson came back. I think 1 rumor that's true is enough for this season. The trade isn't going to happen because it really-*REALLY*....doesn't make any sense. Magloire is a good player, but Toronto has more problems then Center. They need their draft picks in order to make any changes. Magloire isn't going to make the fans want to watch a Raptors game...So it's better to get a young guard or forward to help out Bosh.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

Tooeasy said:


> I'm just gonna repost what I stated in the raptors board, it was rather lengthy and I don't see anything wrong with stating my opinions twice.
> 
> I think you guys are criminally underrating the capabilities of Magloire. He has NEVER been the go to guy in the hornets offensive system, he essentially never had plays run through him. For him to average 14 ppg in a scheme that he has to create plays for himself is pretty impressive if you ask me. When healthy, he is a top 5 rebounder in this league, and is the exact big body that you guys were looking for when drafting hoffa. Theres no reason to believe that he couldn't be an 18/11 guy if he just has some plays ran through him. You say that this team will be rebuilt around bosh, so whats better to compliment his growth than to put a big anchor in the middle that can grab boards, block some shots, and make shots when needed?
> Lets also discuss a possible scenario. If you guys draft granger/jack, what happens if jack just doesn't work out? looking back, trading granger for magloire would be a rather logical move, and you have to assume that two unproven draft picks being traded for an all star who hasn't been used to his full potential would be a good move on your part. Whats gonna happen when Magloire puts up 22/12 next season as an integral part of the hornets offense and you guys are kicking yourselves in the ***, struggling to win games with a couple rookies in your lineup? Bosh can only be patient for so long, you guys are talking like hes gonna stay around the organization while it struggles for years to win games, and I just don't see that happening. When looking into the near future, a front court of rose/bosh/magloire with alston running the offense has the chance to take your guys' division, now whether or not you can get out of the first round is debateable, but moves have to be made. You can't expect to sniff the playoffs for a while by building around draft picks with no caproom, unless you strike gold like the Bulls, but even then, look how many years and how much trial and error they went through.
> Lastly, both Baron and magloire were very disappointed with the hornets organization, and once Davis got outta there, look what he did. That golden state team can be sniffing the playoffs next year, and theres no reason to believe that Magloire couldn't have a similar(less drastic, however) turnaround once he gets out of NO and back to his hometown. The guy could break out become one of the elite centers in the league, and while its already been stated that you guys think you could sniff the playoffs next year(who cares if its a first round exit, its still exciting to have your team in the playoffs no matter what) you guys are content with keeping a couple draft picks and remaining a mediocre team for years, piing up draft picks and praying that your savior will come from some mid lottery picks.



You can have your opinion. But no team needs a saviour. Detroit has proven this. Rob (I hope) is trying to build a true team. Not a bunch of role players to go with one star.

I like JM but 7 AND 16 is far too much

This team is not one player away. There is a whole team to build. By the time the team is ready. Magloire will be a free agent.

This is the most important aspect to grasp. Go over the roster, how many of the players there are really part of the future here?


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## Starbury03 (Aug 12, 2003)

How are Maglories injury's doing. There is now ay I would do that trade after he has been injured so much and has a large contract.


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

Toronto's first need is for a point guard and without a point guard it really doesn't matter if they have a great front line or not.If a trade gave them the oppurtunity to get #4 it would be far more credible than this.I like Magloire a lot,but he's always had trouble staying healthy and he simply isn't the answer to all of the Raptors problems if getting him means giving up the oppurtunity to get two good young players hopefully including a point guard.


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## Tooeasy (Nov 4, 2003)

where is all the injury prone talk coming from, anyway? prior to last season, Magloire played in and started every game for 2 years, and played in all 82 games the year before. Last season was the first time he missed any games from injury as a starter, and its foolish to stamp his as injury prone just because of a broken finger, it isn't like hes having constant back or knee issues. and 8.5 mil for a Center that is as productive as Magloire is a blessing, not a large contract as stated.


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

What a terrible, terrible trade. 

Toronto needs young talent and athleticism. We are not going to trade two crucial picks to the future of this franchise for a good, not great centre. With Magloire we are still an average team. No quick fixes.


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## HORNETSFAN (Jun 11, 2002)

Do some of you watch the NBA? What is this talk of him always being injured or "injury prone?" Do you realize that last year was the first time he was injured in his career? And it was a broken and dislocated finger. Does that appear to be a chronic injury? He also is locked up at under $9 million a year for the next two years. For a quality big man, that is not a bad deal. Anyone who thinks he is not worth at least the #7 and a future #1 or quality player (if Toronto wants to keep the 16) need only look back to last year. Is Araujo worth where he was drafted? How much of a sure thing is that draft pick?


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## Tooeasy (Nov 4, 2003)

HORNETSFAN said:


> Do some of you watch the NBA? What is this talk of him always being injured or "injury prone?" Do you realize that last year was the first time he was injured in his career? And it was a broken and dislocated finger. Does that appear to be a chronic injury? He also is locked up at under $9 million a year for the next two years. For a quality big man, that is not a bad deal. Anyone who thinks he is not worth at least the #7 and a future #1 or quality player (if Toronto wants to keep the 16) need only look back to last year. Is Araujo worth where he was drafted? How much of a sure thing is that draft pick?


this guys smart, take heed in what he says.


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## jalen5 (Nov 19, 2004)

HORNETSFAN said:


> Do some of you watch the NBA? What is this talk of him always being injured or "injury prone?" Do you realize that last year was the first time he was injured in his career? And it was a broken and dislocated finger. Does that appear to be a chronic injury? He also is locked up at under $9 million a year for the next two years. For a quality big man, that is not a bad deal. Anyone who thinks he is not worth at least the #7 and a future #1 or quality player (if Toronto wants to keep the 16) need only look back to last year. Is Araujo worth where he was drafted? How much of a sure thing is that draft pick?


I gotta say, at first, I thought to myself, why on earth would the Raptors do this??? But I have been convinced that it wouldn't be that bad a deal for the Raps. They got picks 7 and 16. More than likely, if they are lucky, one of those picks will turn out to be a really good pick (However, after seeing the Araujo pick, I wouldn't be too confident in those making the decisions for the Raps if I was a Raps fan). In Magloire, they are trading for a sure thing, a player that solidifies the frontcourt for the Raps. I think what yall are forgetting is that Magloire will not just be there for 2 years. Most likely he will re-sign w/ the Raps when his contract ends b/c that's where he wants to be, in Toronto.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

I think Toronto should do this deal. Remember this is the team that drafted Araujo last year. Their scouting is probably not up to the task of turning the 7 and 16 into anything better than Morris Peterson.

Magloire is what they are trying to draft anyways.

Why wait?

The less years Bosh has to play center the better for everyone involved.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

The Hornets trying to be like next years version of the Bulls requires someone with the talent eye of a John Paxson (and company, others helped him). I hope they have good scouting. Bulls are a nice story, but I hope that teams don't think it's the right way to build a franchise. Bulls lucked out with Deng being a steal for where he was drafted, Nocioni turning out to be a good player for cheap, and getting a steal in Duhon in the 2nd round. 

Draft picks are overrated. They are like little tokens of hope. They are like the lottery. You might win big so you pay something down and just hope to luck out. Most of the time it doesn't happen and you dig yourself deeper.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

Sir Patchwork said:


> The Hornets trying to be like next years version of the Bulls requires someone with the talent eye of a John Paxson (and company, others helped him). I hope they have good scouting. Bulls are a nice story, but I hope that teams don't think it's the right way to build a franchise. Bulls lucked out with Deng being a steal for where he was drafted, Nocioni turning out to be a good player for cheap, and getting a steal in Duhon in the 2nd round.
> 
> Draft picks are overrated. They are like little tokens of hope. They are like the lottery. You might win big so you pay something down and just hope to luck out. Most of the time it doesn't happen and you dig yourself deeper.


I completely disagree with this. If you're a large market and/or in a warm climate (Los Angeles, Miami, Orlando, Dallas, Houston, Phoenix), you may have the good fortune to have free agents come to you. However, many destinations in the NBA are not considered the most appealing, and they don't get superstars to come their way in any other fashion than the draft.

Has Ray Allen been rumored to the Hornets despite their gobs of cap room? Michael Redd? Nope. They HAVE to build through the draft if they want a star.


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## Nimreitz (May 13, 2003)

As a draft nerd, this deal was initially hard to swallow for me from Toronto's perspective, but I've warmed up to it as I thought about it some more. First of all, getting a guy who actually wants to play in Toronto has got to be worth something, you likely won't lose him after his contract runs out and he might even sign for less to play in Toronto. Magloire is a fantastic center, and he would be a perfect yang to Bosh's ying. In addition, Memphis X is completely true about the draft, it's a crapshoot after the top 7 or so. Yeah, there are some good players at #7 in recent history, but look at the #16s! Except for Artest does Snyder cause you to nix the trade? Like if you said "Ok, Granger for Magloire is fair, but we won't give up Snyder!!" What about Jiri, Hedo, or Bell? Not a chance! Mid first rounders, even in deep drafts are just such a huge gamble that I would rather have a center like Magloire even if I lose a young talent like Granger.

But that's just straight up right now, what about the future? I think this is BETTER from the standpoint of the future for the Raptors than keeping the picks. How? First of all they will win more games next year with Magloire rather than whichever rookies they draft (who won't start) and winning gets the fanbase excited and maybe gets Bosh excited for the future and being a Raptor. Secondly the Hornets are willing to take on *bad contracts* for the picks!! To someone like myself who just LOVES the rebuilding process there's only one thing more valuable than draft picks, and that's capspace. You can go out and sign a real point guard or a long term replacement for Rose in the near future, a more proven player instead of the #16 pick where you historically have a less than 50% chance of grabbing a starter.

And of course it makes perfect sense for the Hornets. It requires thinking out of the box to like the deal for the Raptors (especially to us draft nerds who value picks probably a little more than they're worth), but I think it makes sense if the Hornets take a bad contract or two from the Raps.


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## jalen5 (Nov 19, 2004)

Darius Miles Davis said:


> I completely disagree with this. If you're a large market and/or in a warm climate (Los Angeles, Miami, Orlando, Dallas, Houston, Phoenix), you may have the good fortune to have free agents come to you. However, many destinations in the NBA are not considered the most appealing, and they don't get superstars to come their way in any other fashion than the draft.
> 
> Has Ray Allen been rumored to the Hornets despite their gobs of cap room? Michael Redd? Nope. They HAVE to build through the draft if they want a star.



I agree. I think the Hornets best chance/way to rebuild is through the draft. Free agency is where most teams plug in the remaining holes or add veterans.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

We'll see. History says they probably won't get a player as good and valuable as Magloire with either of those picks. From what I understand, building doesn't involve giving away good players for the sake of taking chances on 1st round draft picks. It's not a given that any player outside of the top 5 will ever be as good as Magloire is. There might be a couple at most, but it's still a gamble whether you'll get one of them. Then you'd have to get something valuable out of both picks in order for the trade to work to your advantage, since you gave up a good player. I guess they're trying to strike it rich. Live or die by the draft. Most of the time you die. 

We'll see though, if it even happens.


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

Well it is early summer. The season of eternal optimism. It is a time where every draft elgible SG looks like Ray Allen or better, SFs like Grant Hill, post players are going to be future 20/10, and every PG is going to make the rest of his teammates better. The blasphemy of suggesting you trade an ALL Star center that is not a bonafide HOFer for draft picks 7 and 16 seems so silly.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

MemphisX said:


> Well it is early summer. The season of eternal optimism. It is a time where every draft elgible SG looks like Ray Allen or better, SFs like Grant Hill, post players are going to be future 20/10, and every PG is going to make the rest of his teammates better. The blasphemy of suggesting you trade an ALL Star center that is not a bonafide HOFer for draft picks 7 and 16 seems so silly.


I think a trade in which Magloire (the most marginal of all stars, mind you) is swapped with the #7 pick and cap fodder is a reasonable deal for both teams. If I were Toronto, I wouldn't trade both picks.


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## RP McMurphy (Jul 17, 2003)

It's silly for the #16 pick to be the deal-breaker because players picked in the late teens suck for the most part. That pick _might_ get you the next Ron Artest but probably, it will get you the next John Wallace. The #7 pick is at least 90 percent of the value in this package.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

RP McMurphy said:


> It's silly for the #16 pick to be the deal-breaker because players picked in the late teens suck for the most part. That pick _might_ get you the next Ron Artest but probably, it will get you the next John Wallace. The #7 pick is at least 90 percent of the value in this package.


Not this year - from my perspective this is a deep draft, a bit weak at the top. A little less value then normal at #7, but more value then normal at #16. (if you draft right)


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## HORNETSFAN (Jun 11, 2002)

Sir Patchwork said:


> We'll see. History says they probably won't get a player as good and valuable as Magloire with either of those picks. From what I understand, building doesn't involve giving away good players for the sake of taking chances on 1st round draft picks. It's not a given that any player outside of the top 5 will ever be as good as Magloire is. There might be a couple at most, but it's still a gamble whether you'll get one of them. Then you'd have to get something valuable out of both picks in order for the trade to work to your advantage, since you gave up a good player. I guess they're trying to strike it rich. Live or die by the draft. Most of the time you die.
> 
> We'll see though, if it even happens.


You are right. The picks are a HUGE gamble and the odds are very high that the #16 will not pan out, so the #7 has to be a hit. However, I think the Hornets have taken the approach that they will not be winners in the next couple of years, so get younger and let them learn. Personally, I like Big Cat and would like him to stay. However, he has not been too happy about the rebuilding process and losing a friend in BD. I have a gut feeling that the Hornets promised him that if he kept his discontent out of the media (unlike BD), that they would try to accomodate a trade to Toronto (where he wants to be). As a result, I would expect that if a deal is made, Toronto will likely keep the #16 and trade the #7 and a couple of players (MoPete/Araujo or AWilliams (a Scott favorite)) and if we are lucky, Denver's 2006 pick.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

RP McMurphy said:


> It's silly for the #16 pick to be the deal-breaker because players picked in the late teens suck for the most part. That pick _might_ get you the next Ron Artest but probably, it will get you the next John Wallace. The #7 pick is at least 90 percent of the value in this package.


Have you guys consideredthe SUCCESS CYCLE approach of managing franchises. 

IMO, this has nothing to do with value (7 and 16 is fair value for Jamal). If the Raptors were a playoff team right now (top 5 seed), I would be all over this deal. 

But they are not, and they have ZERO youth other then Bosh of value. They need to build players 3-8 on their roster over the next couple of years, and the draft is the best avenue to attempt this. 

We will not be top contenders in 06 and 07 with Magliore and Bosh. So let's surround them with 4 picks, and hope that a couple pan out into top-8 rotation players or better.

Then we sign Mags or someone else with cap space that will be created in the summer of 2007.

It's not about market value - it's about knowing where your franchise is at That is what is making this trade wrong AT THIS TIME even if it is fair value.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

JuniorNoboa said:


> Have you guys read acout the SUCCESS CYCLE approach of managing franchises. Some of you need to.
> 
> IMO, this has nothing to do with value (7 and 16 is fair value for Jamal). If the Raptors were a playoff team right now (top 5 seed), I would be all over this deal.
> 
> ...


You're way too holier than thou, man. Lots of people on this board know a lot about basketball even if they haven't read one book. Get off it.

Meanwhile, the #7 and the #16 is well over fair value for Magloire, and yes, that really matters.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

Darius Miles Davis said:


> You're way too holier than thou, man. Lots of people on this board know a lot about basketball even if they haven't read one book. Get off it.


It's not necessarily a book, it's a concept that doesn't necessarily have to be called a "success cycle" it's simply knowing where your franchise is at.

Your point is Fair enough, however, as I was a bit of an *** in that response. Perhaps this point would have been much simpler.

"Fair value for Magliore is two picks, but fair value does not equate a good trade for the Raptors based on there current roster situation. The Raps should look to make a move like that when they have more success, or have the roster makeup to make the next step"


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

JuniorNoboa said:


> It's not necessarily a book, it's a concept that doesn't necessarily have to be called a "success cycle" it's simply knowing where your franchise is at.
> 
> Your point is Fair enough, however, as I was a bit of an *** in that response. Perhaps this point would have been much simpler.
> 
> "Fair value for Magliore is two picks, but fair value does not equate a good trade for the Raptors based on there current roster situation. The Raps should look to make a move like that when they have more success, or have the roster makeup to make the next step"


Cool. We're all good. Sorry if I came off a little harsh myself.


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

None of that means anything after two more years of getting your tails kicked and Chris Bosh wants out. I wonder where that fits into your success cycle? If you think players, especially ones at Bosh's talent level, like to sit patiently losing you are going to get another rude awakening.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

MemphisX said:


> None of that means anything after two more years of getting your tails kicked and Chris Bosh wants out. I wonder where that fits into your success cycle? If you think players, especially ones at Bosh's talent level, like to sit patiently losing you are going to get another rude awakening.


That's a risk I'm willing to take, rather then being at constant mediocrity.

I'm not going to disagree that Bosh leaving is a possibility that must be considered.

There are two main risks to not making the deal:
1. Mags may not want to sign here in two years. I think we can find someone nearly as good 
2. Bosh wants to leave after getting beaten up for another two years. We then get a Vince like return. I think the risk is minimized based on who Chris Bosh is.


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## Nimreitz (May 13, 2003)

He's a class act, but what happens when he signs an offer sheet you can't match? Or if he signs a one year qualifying offer with you guys after his rookie contract is up and then you can't match what he would command as an UFA? I don't see Bosh taking a paycut to play in Canada no matter how loyal and classy he is.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

I don't see there being ANY problems with us being able to match an offer. The Raptors will offer the max to him.... and have more then the necessary financial resources to do so. 

If we can't operate under the assumption that we can't resign our stars in the NBA (a league where stars stay in smaller markets for the max), we might as well pack up ship and leave the league.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

Nimreitz said:


> He's a class act, but what happens when he signs an offer sheet you can't match? Or if he signs a one year qualifying offer with you guys after his rookie contract is up and then you can't match what he would command as an UFA? I don't see Bosh taking a paycut to play in Canada no matter how loyal and classy he is.


We can match ANY offer and won't be too upset in doing so.


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## TRON (Feb 29, 2004)

Wow, so many ignorant posts I don't know where to start

First off, when you critique any scenerio, know the whole story. Many non-Raptor fans who posted only see a fraction of the whole story. 

They continually cite Hoffa, as a reason why these "two draft picks will be busts, so mights as well trade them for a realiable center".

Nor do they consider that Toronto has used the quick fix solution for several years to no avail, and would still be miles away from contending even with Magloire on board

finally the most overlooked point that outsiders don't get, is that Magloire has two years left on his contract and has openly stated he wants to come play for Toronto, so..... why would we want to give up our 2 first round picks in a solid draft for a player that might end up coming here for nothing???????


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

Just heard NO is willing to take a second and some filler just to get rid of Mags.

They know he's gone in 2 to TOR.

Take it or leave it.

:biggrin:


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## Ballyhoo (May 30, 2003)

blowuptheraptors said:


> Just heard NO is willing to take a second and some filler just to get rid of Mags.


It'd be nice for the Raptors to be on the benefiting side of a disgruntled player being traded for peanuts, for a change.


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## Idunkonyou (Feb 23, 2003)

According to ESPN, this deal probably won't happen.


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