# OT: Cubs/Superdave



## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

Take this for what it's worth... a pretty reliable cubs poster that I've seen on the espn.com boards before for the Cubs... seems pretty genuine... I believe him anyways:


Every year my brother's travel team goes Buckey Dent's Baseball School. It is a players offseason workout haven.I have seen A-Rod, Grud, Counsel, Conine, Ray Sanchez, Piazza, and numerous minor leaguers. A lot of these guys work with catching/hitting instuctor Wally Horseman. He is a Yankees scout and Piazza's personal hitting/catching coach in the offseason.Anyway, Pudge was there this week, if you don't believe me check out DentBaseball.com I had the chance to talk to him. At lunch all the kids eat in the calfateria with all the kids and intructors/scouts/current plaers(usually minor leaguers). I knew this would happen so I was perpared. Every year the instructor mingle with the kids at lunch. Pudge worked his way around the room and eventually came to meet my brother. I told my brother that I wanted him to ask Pudge if he has the chance to speak to him. Long story short Pude said: He wants to play for the Cubs but, they only offered a one year 6 mil contract with a team option of 8 mil for 2005. He said that just isn't going to do it. He also said Florida might still make him the best offer, but expects the best offer to come from LA. He said its still up in the air, basically. Believe me or not either way I don't care. I'll tell you one thing though, he is pretty damn impressive in person. 



again, take it for what it's worth, but it is interesting...


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

Very interesting.

Let's face it, there aren't any takes on Pudge right now other than the Cubs and Dodgers. The big issue w/ the Dodgers is that, though they desperately need offense, their management team is in flux and they may not be willing to shell out major bucks right now. And what do they do with Paul LoDuca.. move him to 1st? Yikes.

Man the Cubs are playing some budget hardball here. Pudge got a 2 year + 1 option guaranteed deal (worth 7-8M per) from the Marlins and subsequently the Orioles. But the Orioles took that money and gave it to Javy. It would be a huge surprise if Pudge went back to Florida considering both sides have pretty much burned the bridge.

At this point, signing Pudge would be icing on the cake and I hope the Cubs make him a serious offer. A 2 year 20M deal (w/ team option for third) for a Hall of Fame catcher?" C'mon Tribsters... considering you guys made <b>billions</b> last fiscal year, don't you think its time to pony up for one of the best catchers ever to play the game? Quick.. someone call Mr. Fitzsimmons !!


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

So you are saying 2 year/$6M + 1 year/$8M team option?

Sounds fair to me...


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## T.Shock (Feb 11, 2003)

Good lord if we sign Pudge....I mean the lineup and rotation seems literally Yankee-like.

CF - Patterson
2B - Walker
RF - Sosa
1B - Lee
C - Pudge
LF - Alou
3B - Ramirez
SS - Ramon Martinez

Rotation
Wood
Prior
Clement
Zambrano
TBD

Bullpen
Borowski
Farnsworth
Hawkins
Guthrie(re-signed)
Estes
Cruz


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## Robert23 (Dec 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>TomBoerwinkle#1</b>!
> So you are saying 2 year/$6M + 1 year/$8M team option?
> 
> Sounds fair to me...


No he said 1 year/$6m + 1 year/$8M team option from the Cubs.


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

HAWK23, you might be interested to know that Maddux has all but narrowed his choices down to Chicago and San Diego. Just saw/heard that on CLTV. The encouraging thing is that San Diego has less wiggle room that we do (salary wise) and has reportedly come to terms with David Wells recently. Maybe that opens the door for a reasonable 2 year deal for Maddux.

2 years at 10-12M perhaps? So my arbitrary question is... <b>if you could have either Greg Maddux or Pudge Rodriguez (but not both) for the next two seasons, whom would you pick</b>? The Cubs might be looking at a certain salary range (as you mentioned earlier HAWK) to their next signing. We shall see.

For me, it'd be a tough choice. It'd be sweet to see Maddux win 300 in a Cubs uni and to help tutor our young arms. Pudge could likewise provide leadership, clutch hitting, and his cannon behind the plate. These are two first ballot HOFers.... man oh man. Let's hope we can at least get one!!


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## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

althought I would love both...

I take Maddux... Maddux is more durable, proven winner, if we get him then we have a chance to win every single game because Clement will be pushed to the 5th starter... I would expect us to compete in every single game that prior, wood,, zambrano, maddux, and clement pitch in... every game started by one of those 5 should be close...

plus you saw our offense do very well the 2nd half of the season when we got Ramirez... plus we added Lee and our bench has many more quality bats now with Walker and Hollandsworth...

maybe I just want Maddux back for sentimental reasons... but I would take Maddux...

what about you?


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## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

by the way I would bet money that Maddux is a Cub before January 12th...


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

Same here. I go with Maddux. He will eat up innings, keep you in games and most importantly teach our younger pitchers (like he did w/ Jason Marquis) how to pitch better. Yeah and it'll cure some old ills too if he wins number 300 in the Cubbie blue 

Right now, the Cubs have only 2 weak arse gimme outs.. that is AGonz and whomever plays catcher between Barrett and Bako. I have this sneaking suspicion Grudz will get a look at SS (where he played up until '99), but I'm not sure if his arm and range will be adequate. We know Walker is a gamer and everyday 2nd baseman. I dunno.. I just have a hard time seeing them platoon but that's JMO. Maybe Hendry has something else up his sleeve!

Yeah we get an upgrade with a blossoming Derrek Lee, a whole year of Ramirez, a couple solid lefty bats, and a solidified bullpen. Adding Maddux would be icing on the cake.


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>HAWK23</b>!
> by the way I would bet money that Maddux is a Cub before January 12th...


That's my birthday! Is that a certain MLB deadline?


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## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>superdave</b>!
> 
> 
> That's my birthday! Is that a certain MLB deadline?


no it's not a MLB deadline...


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## Sigifrith (Nov 10, 2002)

http://www.yellon.org/links.htm

For a countdown to Spring Training or the Season Opener.

Al is a big Cubs fan, & has a lot of great links.

Enjoy


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Pudge, no doubt.


Pudge can have as great an impact on the pitching staff as adding Maddux. Maddux is clearly on the downside of his career. And Pudge gives us a REAL bat (and is a superstar) at our weakest position.

The Cubs have a terrific staff without Maddux, though I like him for all the reasons Superdave says.


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## T.Shock (Feb 11, 2003)

I'd say Maddux. I think I share the sentiments here that he could do wonders for our staff although I hope it doesn't become a Scottie Pippen like situation. I honestly think we have enough offense especially when Corey Patterson returns. I mean see the lineup below without Pudge, it is still one of the tops in the league. Our bench is pretty good with Bako, Grudz, Kelton, Hollandsworth, Karros(if we re-sign him). So Maddux would be my choice, but you can never have too many bats.


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

Couple new Cubs tidbits worth noting:

http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/NASApp/...nt_id=625966&vkey=news_chc&fext=.jsp&c_id=chn


> Guzman, 22, was throwing at the Chicago Cubs' Spring Training facility as part of his rehab from shoulder surgery July 8.
> 
> Guzman is 24-9 with a 2.33 ERA in four seasons in the Cubs' minor league system. Last March, he won the first Ron Santo/Billy williams Rookie of the Spring award after compiling a 1.13 ERA in five Cactus League outings
> 
> Guzman is coming along fine," Cubs general manager Jim Hendry said. "We think he will be a quality rotation guy, and hopefully it's sometime this year (in 2004). He would've been in the big leagues in August (2003) if he hadn't gotten hurt. I don't want to do anything about him except get him ready."


Guzman is a keep folks, and he should make a splash in the rotation sometime during 2004. Juan Cruz better be working hard this offseason, that's for sure 

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/news/040108cubans.html



> Dueñas, a 31-year-old second baseman/outfielder, left Cuba by boat in October and have spent the past two months establishing residency in the Central American nation of El Salvador
> 
> Dueñas, a Cuban stolen base champion who hit .321 in 14 seasons, is expected to be wooed by the Cubs


Another 2nd baseman? Looks like another bench player the Cubs might be interested in. Send Jose Macias somewhere else.


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## SecretAgentGuy (Jul 15, 2003)

Read an article in the Sun Times today and it mentioned that the Cubs still might sign Pudge and/or Maddux, with Maddux looking very realistic as long as he accepts a cut from his demanded 2 yrs/$10 mil. Apparently Hendry has been in contact with their agent, who I believe is Boras. Has anyone else heard some news on this?

The article went on to talk about how the Cubs are actually an organization that players want to play for due to Dusty and the fact that they look like they're serious about winning. It's about freaking time!


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## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

For Spook:



> Originally posted by <b>HAWK23</b>!
> by the way I would bet money that Maddux is a Cub before January 12th...


I believe my date is still golden...


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## SecretAgentGuy (Jul 15, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>HAWK23</b>!
> For Spook:
> 
> 
> ...


I almost forgot about that :grinning: 
I certainly hope so. You have 3 days to make good on your prediction.


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## Lizzy (May 28, 2002)

I'd rather have Pudge. Starting pitching was the least of our worries.

The only way I'd want Maddox is if he A) lowered his crazy salary demands and B) we were able to trade Clement/Gonzales/Alou/Farnsworth for A-Rod.


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

I would be happy with either, though as I've said in the past.. I'd give a slight edge to Maddux. This is because I have a sneaking suspicion about Zambrano putting lots of mileage on that arm at such an early age. I think he could have a really inconsistent year. Clement is only signed for 1 more year and could be trade bait by the trading deadline. If you sign Maddux, you basically get a proven guy who can eat up innings for 2 seasons and to help tutor our young arms. But Guzman is actually rated higher than Z, so his return is encouraging as well.

I think Baltimore gets crazy and signs Pudge. Yup, two catchers so I guess they'll have to DH one of them. Angelos is flat crazy.

I think the Cubs will wind up with Maddux before the Cubs convention, January 14th maybe?


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## PC Load Letter (Jun 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>superdave</b>!
> I would be happy with either, though as I've said in the past.. I'd give a slight edge to Maddux. This is because I have a sneaking suspicion about Zambrano putting lots of mileage on that arm at such an early age. I think he could have a really inconsistent year. Clement is only signed for 1 more year and could be trade bait by the trading deadline. If you sign Maddux, you basically get a proven guy who can eat up innings for 2 seasons and to help tutor our young arms. But Guzman is actually rated higher than Z, so his return is encouraging as well.
> 
> I think Baltimore gets crazy and signs Pudge. Yup, two catchers so I guess they'll have to DH one of them. Angelos is flat crazy.
> ...


I'd go with Maddux for a couple reasons:

1) I think coming back to the Cubs will re-energize him. And it's not like he was bad last year. 16-11 with a 3.96 era is pretty damn good these days, even if it's nowhere near his 1.56 ERA days. He would be our #4 starter. How many teams wouldn't take him as their #2? Man, seeing him back in a Cubs uniform would make me tingle all over. :yes: 

B) I don't see Pudge having anywhere near the season he had last year again. In fact, it's pretty much impossible. Not only that, but he's always had the label of being a bad pitch-caller and a jerk with an inflated ego. That's the last thing I want in my catcher. You don't need a catcher who hits much to win. We basically got to the World Series last year (only a Cubs fan would say that) with Damien frickin Miller behind the dish. The Barrett/Bako combo will do just fine and will leave more cash available for other things that we may need throughout the season.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

I heard on ESPN Radio that Houston offered Roger Clemmens a one year contract offer today. I hope the Cubs will counter with Pudge or Maddux if Clemmens accepts.


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Darius Miles Davis</b>!
> I heard on ESPN Radio that Houston offered Roger Clemmens a one year contract offer today. I hope the Cubs will counter with Pudge or Maddux if Clemmens accepts.


That is awesome... the thought of Clemmens in the National League. Heck, I hope Pedro comes to the NL one day too. Let's see how tough these two guys are when they have to bat 3-4 times a game.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>superdave</b>!
> 
> 
> That is awesome... the thought of Clemmens in the National League. Heck, I hope Pedro comes to the NL one day too. Let's see how tough these two guys are when they have to bat 3-4 times a game.


But it's still not awesome for us if they sign him and we don't counter with something to upgrade.

Pettite, Oswalt, Miller, Clemmens

Yikes!


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Darius Miles Davis</b>!
> But it's still not awesome for us if they sign him and we don't counter with something to upgrade.
> 
> Pettite, Oswalt, Miller, Clemmens
> ...


Yeah, but I'm a baseball fan. If the Cubs handle their business, they still win the division or get in on the NL wildcard.

Rest assured, Prior is the best pitcher in the game next year. That alone gives the Cubs a great shot.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

Clemmens agrees to one year deal with Astros.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1706367

The ball is in your court, Tribune Company. Make a move to counter the evil Astros! I want Maddux or Pudge!


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Darius Miles Davis</b>!
> Clemmens agrees to one year deal with Astros.
> 
> http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1706367
> ...


I dunno. I just think its hilarious Roger gets to bat 3-4 times a game. He better wear a reinforced batting helmet.

Let's see if the Cubs can counter with anything!


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## SecretAgentGuy (Jul 15, 2003)

Darn... HAWK23, today is the deadline for your prediction. Any news to report?

I wonder how good Clemens can be on the Astros without the Yankees bats. I still think our 4 will own him. Let's see how he likes a Prior fastball down his grill.


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## PC Load Letter (Jun 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>superdave</b>!
> 
> 
> I dunno. I just think its hilarious Roger gets to bat 3-4 times a game. He better wear a reinforced batting helmet.


I'd love to see him throw at any of our guys with Zambrano on the mound. That would be good times!

If we sign Maddux, we'll have Maddux, Clemens, Wood and Prior all in the same division. Damn, that would be sweet!


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>PC Load Letter</b>!
> 
> 
> I'd love to see him throw at any of our guys with Zambrano on the mound. That would be good times!
> ...


Don't forget Pettite, Oswalt, Wade Miller, Matt Morris...and Josh Fogg.


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## PC Load Letter (Jun 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Darius Miles Davis</b>!
> 
> 
> Don't forget Pettite, Oswalt, Wade Miller, Matt Morris...and Josh Fogg.


I just listed guys I think are future hall of famers (I realize Wood is questionable). Regardless if these guys are hall of fame calibre or not, they're still very good and it gives the NL Central very strong starting pitching all around (although most are on the Cubs or Astros).


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## Lizzy (May 28, 2002)

If the Cubs sign Maddux what are they going to do when Angel Guzman is ready? Trade Zambrano or Clemment? 

I say use Juan Cruz until Guzman is ready and get another hitter. 

Also, the Angels are really beefing up, too. The NL Central and AL West (?) are gonna be good races.


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## PC Load Letter (Jun 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Lizzy</b>!
> If the Cubs sign Maddux what are they going to do when Angel Guzman is ready? Trade Zambrano or Clemment?
> 
> I say use Juan Cruz until Guzman is ready and get another hitter.
> ...


That's a valid point (isn't it nice to have an abundance of good starting pitching?), as Guzman is supposed to be a total bad-[edit]. When is he supposed to be ready? I thought I read an article the other day that said he'd be ready sometime this season, but honestly, I can't remember. Regardless, the kid is coming off elbow surgery so I don't think he'll be inserted into the rotation anytime this season. Assuming that's true, you're basically talking about having either Maddux or Cruz as your #5 starter this season. I'll take Maddux. We can worry about what to do with the rotation whenever that time comes.

I realize we need hitting more than pitching, but imagine a rotation where Maddux is a #5 starter. Who needs another hitter?

I really wish Sosa would have optioned for free agency so we could have signed Vlad and let Sosa walk. Ugh. I think Oakland will win the West again. Nobody else has starting pitching that's even close.


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>PC Load Letter</b>!
> 
> 
> That's a valid point (isn't it nice to have an abundance of good starting pitching?), as Guzman is supposed to be a total bad-a*s. When is he supposed to be ready? I thought I read an article the other day that said he'd be ready sometime this season, but honestly, I can't remember. Regardless, the kid is coming off elbow surgery so I don't think he'll be inserted into the rotation anytime this season. Assuming that's true, you're basically talking about having either Maddux or Cruz as your #5 starter this season. I'll take Maddux. We can worry about what to do with the rotation whenever that time comes.
> ...


PCLoad, it was a shoulder surgery non-rotator cuff for Guzman. I expect probably a September callup about when Zambrano's arm falls off or Clement is traded opening up a spot in the rotation 

Now that Houston added Clemmens, I don't know which one I'd want if I had to choose. My baseball sense tells me Maddux, but I would kill for another solid bat in the lineup. Plus, Pudge is a hard *ss and great guy to have in the clubhouse too.


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## Bulls42 (Jul 22, 2002)

*We need to sign*

Pudge and Maddux ASAP. Hopefully this Clemens signing has got the Cubs management a bit worried. Houston's starting line-up is just as good as ours. Miller and Oswalt are clutch too.
Remember when we shelled Petite at Wrigley last year. I don't think he made it out of the first. Still, with all those right-handed bats, Petite will be tough to hit.


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## DontBeCows (Apr 22, 2003)

The Cubs seem to be doomed again this year. The Tribune company is cheap. That's why they can't win, at least not consistently.


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## PC Load Letter (Jun 29, 2002)

For what it's worth, the Cubs will have an extra $2 mil or so/year coming in starting next year, courtesy of the 11 rooftop owners:
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune...lfinal,1,6324063.story?coll=cs-cubs-headlines

Also, it looks like the Padres are working on a deal to get Jason Kendall. Does anyone else think Kendall would have liked very nice in a Cubs uniform? I know he has a big contract, but the guy's a great catcher, a tough guy and has a high on-base%. He could have been very good at the top of the order in front of Sosa, Lee, Aramis and Alou.

Also, a little news on Guzman:
http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/NASApp/...nt_id=625966&vkey=news_chc&fext=.jsp&c_id=chn
_Guzman, 22, was throwing at the Chicago Cubs' Spring Training facility as part of his rehab from shoulder surgery July 8. The right-handed Venezuelan pitcher will be in the Cubs' camp this spring and even though he was not likely to appear in any Cactus League games, he could be part of the rotation before long.

"Guzman is coming along fine," Cubs general manager Jim Hendry said. "We think he will be a quality rotation guy, and hopefully it's sometime this year (in 2004). He would've been in the big leagues in August (2003) if he hadn't gotten hurt. I don't want to do anything about him except get him ready."_


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

Cubs to make a solid offer to Maddux either today or tomorrow, as reported on AM 670 this morning.

Also, Cubs hired a new head trainer, Dave Groeschner an assistant to Stan Conte in San Francisco.. who is considered the best in the business when it comes to strenght and conditioning. Awesome signing. Hopefully Dave can tell Farnsy and Sosa to ease off the creatine loading


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## PC Load Letter (Jun 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>superdave</b>!
> Cubs to make a solid offer to Maddux either today or tomorrow, as reported on AM 670 this morning.


Awesome. I hope they're reporting responsibly.



> creatine


Creatine...right. That's how they got so big...because of creatine. Absolutely. :|


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>PC Load Letter</b>!
> 
> Awesome. I hope they're reporting responsibly.


Yeah I think its legit. My sources tell me that negotiations have been going on for a couple weeks, but only recently (*cough *cough Clemmens) have the Cubs come close to what Maddux wants. Plus like you said, the rooftop 2M doesn't hurt either.

Personally I hope he gets a 2 year deal in the 12-14M range.




> Creatine...right. That's how they got so big...because of creatine. Absolutely. :|


Actually the funny thing is, teammates are more worried about Farnsy than Sosa when it comes to supplement intake. Farnsy used to be your classic work hard play hard type of guy.. but he's toned down his act big time this past year. Per the creatine and/or steroid debate, no comment.


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## Lizzy (May 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>superdave</b>!
> 
> 
> Personally I hope he gets a 2 year deal in the 12-14M range.


Hopefully you mean total and not each year b/c that's way too much.

Him wanting 10 million a year made me want to barf.


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Lizzy</b>!
> 
> 
> Hopefully you mean total and not each year b/c that's way too much.
> ...


Yeah I meant total, not per year.

Scott Boras makes me wanna barf.


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## Lizzy (May 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>superdave</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> Scott Boras makes me wanna barf.


I don't even know who that is.


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Lizzy</b>!
> I don't even know who that is.


Boras is an uber sports agent who really goes to bat for his clients, but by all accounts is a pain in the arse to work with. He negotiated the 250M deal for ARod a few years back. He got Darren friggin Dreifort 55M and Chan Ho Park a 65M deal. He has held out baseball draft picks, and changed the amateur baseball draft landscape so much that it is now as much about 'signability' as drafting pure talent.

Visionary superagent to some, antichrist for baseball to others. Take your pick.


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/sports_story.asp?intid=37999122



> Boras, as is his custom, is still trying to spin things his way by saying several teams have interest in Maddux. Others insist that Maddux will listen to what his agent says and then make his own decision.


Let's see... Boras told us that Pudge had a 4 year offer on the table now how did that materialize? Now multiple teams are pursuing Maddux? Sheesh, what a scumbag.


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## PC Load Letter (Jun 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>superdave</b>!
> http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/sports_story.asp?intid=37999122
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah, no doubt he is a greasy slimeball. Even just looking at his face, he's one of those guys you assume you can't trust. I'm sure the only people who know him that actually like him are his clients. The rest of em probably wouldn't mind if he had an accident.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

Slightly off topic, but here in NYC, Yanks announcer Michael Kay was going off this morning (on his ESPN radio show) about how Roger Clemmens betrayed the Yankees, and how he can't understand how he could want to finish his career somewhere else than in the Bronx. He actually uttered crap like: "He could be playing in Yankee Stadium, and now he's going to be in MINUTE MAID PARK!" 

I love a lot about NYC, but the unbelievable sense of entitlement a lot of New Yorkers have about their teams, their city, and their lives sometimes makes me so angry. So it was great to hear Kay and his wounded, misguided diatribe. 

I couldn't help snickering all morning.


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Darius Miles Davis</b>!
> Slightly off topic, but here in NYC, Yanks announcer Michael Kay was going off this morning (on his ESPN radio show) about how Roger Clemmens betrayed the Yankees, and how he can't understand how he could want to finish his career somewhere else than in the Bronx. He actually uttered crap like: "He could be playing in Yankee Stadium, and now he's going to be in MINUTE MAID PARK!"
> 
> I love a lot about NYC, but the unbelievable sense of entitlement a lot of New Yorkers have about their teams, their city, and their lives sometimes makes me so angry. So it was great to hear Kay and his wounded, misguided diatribe.
> ...


Very, very true DMD. Passion and entitlement are never lacking w/ true NY fans. Its the only sports town like it on planet earth.


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

This is great. Hendry is a freaking genius. He put his cards on the table publically (which he rarely does in player personnel moves) with Maddux, a very fair offer indeed. Boras is holding no cards at the moment 

http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/NASApp/...114&content_id=627846&vkey=news_chc&fext=.jsp
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune...xoffer,1,2114756.story?coll=cs-cubs-headlines


> General manager Jim Hendry declined to comment Tuesday, but sources said Maddux's agent, Scott Boras, was weighing the Cubs' offer late Tuesday night.
> 
> Maddux, who turns 38 in April, was seeking a two-year deal worth around $20 million. The Cubs' offer is unknown, but is believed to be in the range of $14 million to $15 million over two years.
> 
> The New York Times reported Wednesday that the Mets, who had expressed interest, had decided not to make the longtime Braves starter an offer. Boras has said many teams have made offers but hasn't named them.


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## PC Load Letter (Jun 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>superdave</b>!
> This is great. Hendry is a freaking genius. He put his cards on the table publically (which he rarely does in player personnel moves) with Maddux, a very fair offer indeed. Boras is holding no cards at the moment
> 
> http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/NASApp/...114&content_id=627846&vkey=news_chc&fext=.jsp
> http://chicagosports.chicagotribune...xoffer,1,2114756.story?coll=cs-cubs-headlines


SD, that is indeed a great move. I'm sure Hendry doesn't buy Boras' crap about there being several teams that are after Maddux. Either that or he knows for a fact that it's not true. My guess is nobody else is after him and he will accept this offer within a couple days. He can come back to Chicago and forever be a hero if he's part of a championship Cubs team. Having played here for a few years, he must understand that. 

Hawk, you may have only missed your deadline by a few days.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>HAWK23</b>!
> by the way I would bet money that Maddux is a Cub before January 12th...


I won't call you a genius quite yet, Hawk, but if he signs this week, the timing in your predition is still pretty amazing.

Let's just say...approaching genius status!


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

On the Score this morning, they said don't believe the hype in the Suntimes and Trib---that they were very far apart---and that the Cubs were just putting the info out in a "we tried, but _he_ didn't want to" kinda way. They quoted Barry Rozner---who said the Cubs want him a bargain price or not at all---just like Houston got the Clemens at a bargain.


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## PC Load Letter (Jun 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>GB</b>!
> On the Score this morning, they said don't believe the hype in the Suntimes and Trib---that they were very far apart---and that the Cubs were just putting the info out in a "we tried, but _he_ didn't want to" kinda way. They quoted Barry Rozner---who said the Cubs want him a bargain price or not at all---just like Houston got the Clemens at a bargain.


Well, unlike in 92, we may be able to get him at a bargain price. If he has no other teams after him or at least making him an offer, I find it hard to believe he won't take our offer.


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>GB</b>!
> On the Score this morning, they said don't believe the hype in the Suntimes and Trib---that they were very far apart---and that the Cubs were just putting the info out in a "we tried, but _he_ didn't want to" kinda way. They quoted Barry Rozner---who said the Cubs want him a bargain price or not at all---just like Houston got the Clemens at a bargain.


The Score and Barry Rozner? Sheesh. I'll take AM1000 and Bruce Levine over them in a hearteat. Any negotiations with Boras are inevitably 'far apart'. Boras wants 10M per for Maddux and Pudge, no team has come remotely close to that.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>PC Load Letter</b>!
> 
> 
> Well, unlike in 92, we may be able to get him at a bargain price. If he has no other teams after him or at least making him an offer, I find it hard to believe he won't take our offer.


My initial feeling is that it's going to happen. Maddux is not the pitcher he was 5 years ago, so he does not deserve top dollar. That being said, he's still very good, but a two year deal at his age in regard to his ability sounds right, and 14-15 mil sounds about right too in the current baseball economy. I wouldn't exactly call it a bargain price. It's a solid, appropriate offer for a future hall of famer. Given that Maddux has said he wants to come back with the Cubs, I think it will happen.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

> Well, it was a cute story while it lasted, but the Cubs' run at Greg Maddux appears to have hit a dead end, barring some sort of a miracle.
> 
> Major-league sources said Tuesday that Maddux is weighing offers from three or four teams that far exceed what the Cubs are thought to have offered Tuesday.
> 
> ...


http://dailyherald.com/sports/col_rozner.asp?intid=38000210


[q


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## Lizzy (May 28, 2002)

GB - is that just the agent lying again maybe?

I don't trust the Score aka Bears Radio. If it ain't the Bears they don't care.


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## ViciousFlogging (Sep 3, 2003)

"need to make roster subtractions"??? "didn't have the cash on hand"????

:upset: 

just extend the frickin Cubs' budget! Unless I'm gravely mistaken, the Cubs are a profitable team and the Trib can afford it.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

It's really sad. Chicago is such a sports town, but the owners who've managed to get their hands on the franchises are _businessmen_ first and fans second, if it all.

I think the Chicago area could stand another pro football franchise. Pro baseball too.


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## ViciousFlogging (Sep 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>GB</b>!
> It's really sad. Chicago is such a sports town, but the owners who've managed to get their hands on the franchises are _businessmen_ first and fans second, if it all.
> 
> I think the Chicago area could stand another pro football franchise. Pro baseball too.


you'd think that even the most merciless businessmen would have to have some idea of what a world series in Chicago would be like, and how they'd be hailed as heroes for getting it done after 75934 years of failure. :sigh:


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

> If it's true that Maddux has on the table multiyear deals that range from $10-13 million per season, a Cubs proposal of a year or two at about $5 million annually isn't in the same country, let alone the same neighborhood.
> 
> Assuming the Cubs can't significantly increase their offer - and they'd probably have to make roster subtractions for that to happen - the fans' dreams of seeing Maddux in a Cubs uniform again appear to be over.
> 
> ...


Well, first off, looks like we offered him more money than the Herald thought. 7 to 7.5 mil a year ain't bad. Who is going to offer Maddux 10 mil per year? If so, is it a team he wants to go to?

This is all bluster until we see the name of the team and the offer they make.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

>>looks like we offered him more money than the Herald thought. 7 to 7.5 mil a year ain't bad. <<

That's a rumor my man...a rumor.


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

Just which of these mystery teams is offering Maddux 10-13M per season?


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>GB</b>!
> >>looks like we offered him more money than the Herald thought. 7 to 7.5 mil a year ain't bad. <<
> 
> That's a rumor my man...a rumor.


We'll see.


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

The 7m offer per year (over 2 years) was posted on Cubs.com


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

Superdave or other Chicagoans who get to hear the Chicago news media (unlike me),

Any Maddux update?


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Darius Miles Davis</b>!
> Superdave or other Chicagoans who get to hear the Chicago news media (unlike me),
> 
> Any Maddux update?


Nah. Just Scott Borass mulling imaginary offers in another attempt to inflate his players value. HEre's the latest from Chicagosports:


> The right-hander apparently is in no hurry to sign, and Boras said the Cubs aren't automatic favorites, even if competing offers are similar in value.
> 
> "I don't want to mislead Chicago Cubs fans into thinking Greg Maddux is coming to Chicago," Boras said Wednesday. "There are a number of teams still involved."
> 
> ...


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

Boras is really hilarious. A two year 15M deal would be the 5th highest per year salary signed this offseason behind only Colon, Schilling, Vazquez, and Pettite. Yet supposedly he is implying that there are offers 'significantly higher' than the Cubs. Uhhhhmmmm yeah. Knowing that Maddux wants to pitch in the NL and with a contender, just which team is offering him more than the Cubs? Sheesh.

On a brighter note, there is a contingent of media that belives that Pudge is NOT serious about signing with Detroit. They believe that he may be waiting out the Cubs/Maddux deal.. and if that folds Pudge may come to the Cubs at a reduced rate. At least that's the rumor.

We have a great shot at landing either Maddux or Pudge IMO, Scott Boras aside


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## SecretAgentGuy (Jul 15, 2003)

Latest news I read in the Sun Times today was the Cubs actually offered Maddux 2 yrs and between 10-12 million. They think that Boras is gonna let the Cubs convention pass so the fans can pressure Hendry a lil and raise his offer. Also, Cubs will not be making a run at Pudge regardless if Maddux is signed or not. Hope the article is wrong.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=fanball-tigersirodintownforp&prov=fanball&type=lgns

Tigers: I-Rod in town for physical

Free-agent catcher Ivan Rodriguez and agent Scott Boras traveled to Detroit on Thursday to meet with Tigers' brass and to undergo a physical, according to the Detroit Free Press, providing further evidence that a deal is nearing completion. The 32-year old backstop, who hit .297 with 16 homers and 85 RBI with the Marlins last season, had reportedly been looking for a three-year deal near $30 million.


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## PC Load Letter (Jun 29, 2002)

Article today about Maddux turning down the Cubs offer almost immediately after it was presented...
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune...maddux,1,1666250.story?coll=cs-home-headlines

It says Hendry and Boras are started up talks again yesterday. If that's the case and the Cubs offer before was worth near $14 mil/2 years, that must mean they're willing to go higher. The only question is how much higher? And how much higher SHOULD they even go? I wouldn't go higher than $16 mil/2 years. If Maddux demands more, let him try to get it somewhere else. And if someone else gives it to him, congratulations to them.

I'd guess the longer talks continue between the Cubs and Maddux, without him getting any other offers, the better the chance of him signing with us for what we're offering. I assume Hendry is probably thinking the same thing and won't go up much higher.


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>PC Load Letter</b>!
> Article today about Maddux turning down the Cubs offer almost immediately after it was presented...
> http://chicagosports.chicagotribune...maddux,1,1666250.story?coll=cs-home-headlines
> 
> ...


PCLoad, I wouldn't offer anything more than 14M total over two years. I'd love to add Maddux, but he's a 6 inning pitcher at this point in his career. And as always, I am skeptical exactly which team Borass is referring to that is offering the money he claims. So I think the Cubs remain his best option.


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## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

Boras is really jacking the price up. I thought it was only going to be a 4-5 mil a year contract for him but from Chicagosports.com :

"Maddux, 37, was seeking a two-year deal worth around $20 million"

What??!?!?!  :upset:  :upset:


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## T.Shock (Feb 11, 2003)

Boras is notorious for creating phony offers to drive up prices on his clients. His dealings with Florida last year was basically give Pudge this much money or we'll take our business elsewhere. Florida backed down and gave him more than they wanted to...but Maddux showed signs of caving last year. He's a #3, #4 at best and you don't pay 10 mil, let alone 7 mil for a #3 guy. I would have said 2 yrs, 10 mil and take it or leave it. If a team wants to offer more then let them. Think about where sentiments got us with Pippen...


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