# ESPN2 To Televise USA Basketball Games - USA vs Puerto Rico 11pm ET



## kulaz3000 (May 3, 2006)

I remember using this program for the draft on espn. Its a streaming program to watch espn and espn2, you can download the program or watch direct from the website. Im not going to garentee that it will work, but im pretty sure it will. 

I hope everyone will hope that Hinrich will do well.

Download this program.

http://www.tvunetworks.com/downloads/index.htm

This is for the upcoming schedule for the USA Team.

http://usabasketball.com/seniormen/2006/06_mwc_espn2.html


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## theanimal23 (Mar 2, 2005)

Thanks for the info! I'll watch the game tonight.


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

it's august.

it was 98 degrees here today.

but tonight, all is well.

we have

*basketball*

on television.

:usa:


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## L.O.B (Jun 13, 2002)

I'm anxious for this game to begin. Basketball in August, gotta love it. I hope the class of 2003 shows the world how the US plays basketball


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## UMfan83 (Jan 15, 2003)

Kirk not in the starting lineup, I guess they don't want to win


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

Chris Paul gets the start!


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

Amare off the team, down to 14!


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## theanimal23 (Mar 2, 2005)

Man, if you insert Kirk there instead of Chris Paul in the starting line up, you got the 2003 Draft starting in the Olympic games. What a stellar class. Few classes like this coming along (i.e. 1984, 1996, 2003)


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## UMfan83 (Jan 15, 2003)

Can all 14 players on the squad right now play? Or are only 12 allowed?


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## kulaz3000 (May 3, 2006)

I think its been obvious from the start that Coach was going to start Paul. His been salivating over him in pretty much every interview.. but when the team needs a stop or if they ever need a stop you know kirk will be in there to shut down the guards.


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## UMfan83 (Jan 15, 2003)

I wonder if DWade expects his flopping act to work in international play


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## UMfan83 (Jan 15, 2003)

C'mon this isnt the ASG, play BASKETBALL


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

Bench Paul!

Fire Coach K! Fire Colangelo! The Worlds a wash!


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## UMfan83 (Jan 15, 2003)

sloth said:


> Bench Paul!
> 
> Fire Coach K! Fire Colangelo! The Worlds a wash!


Brilliant....do I need to spread rep around? I'll try

Edit: I do need to spread. But nice post


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## LuolDeng (Feb 22, 2004)

sloth said:


> Amare off the team, down to 14!


Solid, now only 2 more cuts to be made.


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## UMfan83 (Jan 15, 2003)

PR is getting hosed by the refs


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

Puerto Rico's a joke.

So what is Kirk's lineup going to be?

PG-Kirk
SG-Joe Johnson
SF-Bruce Bowen
PF-Elton Brand
C- Dwight Howard

????


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## UMfan83 (Jan 15, 2003)

I think he'll be involved in a 3 guard set.

Oh wait, Skiles isn't coaching this one.


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## kulaz3000 (May 3, 2006)

I love the hand slap then salute!! SOLID!!!


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

i think they'll play all 14 guys. look for kirk to start the second quarter which is what happened in the game tues.


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## LuolDeng (Feb 22, 2004)

So who is everyones bets on the last 2 cuts?


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

Lets keep them under 50!


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

get kirk in there!

who's guarding arroyo?

come on!


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

omg, Carmelo Anthony is awesome!


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## kulaz3000 (May 3, 2006)

Whats up with the stupid 3 point shots??!! C'mon guys!


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

Whats that guy on Puerto Rico's headband say? It something Screw.


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## kulaz3000 (May 3, 2006)

sloth said:


> omg, Carmelo Anthony is awesome!


Awesome at chucking up shots as per...!!

Enough 3 point shots..!!! So disturbing..


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

kulaz3000 said:


> Whats up with the stupid 3 point shots??!! C'mon guys!



They're midrange jumpers in the NBA.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

Hopefully Skiles is taking notes on this defense Team USA is using. Like the offense is sloppy for team USA, but we definitely have the players and depth to pull off this frenzy press defense that Team USA's using.


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## ENIGMATIC 1 (Dec 1, 2005)

Carlos Arroyo is giving them the fits.


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## kulaz3000 (May 3, 2006)

Im sorry, but so far im very underwealmed..

Wheres this defense they've been harping about?? They are just letting everyone by..


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

kulaz3000 said:


> Im sorry, but so far im very underwealmed..
> 
> Wheres this defense they've been harping about?? They are just letting everyone by..


thank you!

they need the captain!

:usa:


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

kulaz3000 said:


> Im sorry, but so far im very underwealmed..
> 
> Wheres this defense they've been harping about?? They are just letting everyone by..


Its there. They've just been having little lapses that allow Puerto Rico to score, and a lot of it has to do with lapses on Arroyo.


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

Chris Paul looks good. 

Theres a lot the Bull can take away from the way team US is playing. I love the way they are putting on heavy pressure after every make. PR is hanging tough, but you know by the end of this one, they're just going to be worn out. I wonder if the Bulls could play like this? They're almost deep enough.


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## kulaz3000 (May 3, 2006)

Quite frankly they look a little too loose. Maybe they've done a little too much bonding...

They just don't have the intensity as say our bulls team, espically on defense.

Is it just me or is Chris Boshs face really disturbing? I hope his face never appears on a weaties box.


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

sloth said:


> Hopefully Skiles is taking notes on this defense Team USA is using. Like the offense is sloppy for team USA, but we definitely have the players and depth to pull off this frenzy press defense that Team USA's using.


 That's exactly what I'm saying.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

such sweet thunder said:


> Chris Paul looks good.
> 
> Theres a lot the Bull can take away from the way team US is playing. I love the way they are putting on heavy pressure after every make. PR is hanging tough, but you know by the end of this one, they're just going to be worn out. I wonder if the Bulls could play like this? They're almost deep enough.


Read post 29.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

kulaz3000 said:


> Quite frankly they look a little too loose. Maybe they've done a little too much bonding...
> 
> They just don't have the intensity as say our bulls team, espically on defense.
> 
> Is it just me or is Chris Boshs face really disturbing? I hope his face never appears on a weaties box.


He's a brontosauraus.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

Is it just me, or is the ball bouncing off the rims weird?


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

Kirk just got his first airtime, he was clapping!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## LuolDeng (Feb 22, 2004)

The Captain approves of Carmelo's dunk.


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## UMfan83 (Jan 15, 2003)

First Bulls mention and Kirk appearence in a 1 minute period


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## kulaz3000 (May 3, 2006)

sloth said:


> He's a brontosauraus.


a BOSHasuraus.. he defintily has that prehistoric look, not only his face but his awkward neck and drooping shoulders. Get Brand and Howard in there!!! 

Enough about Boshs looks..


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

Kirks in.


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

The US are so deep -- why wouldn't they play this way? I can't believe it took a college coach to figure this out.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

These announcers are awful. Mike Miller, WTF. Brad Miller.


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## L.O.B (Jun 13, 2002)

An exciting 1st quarter of basketball. I really like the USA squad but believe that it's crazy not to start Howard, that kid is a beast!


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## UMfan83 (Jan 15, 2003)

Kirk is #5. Hope he doesn't get too attached, Noc is gonna be pissed


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

Kirk's D really is good. Its really apparent with him playing next to these 'star' players. He just doesn't allow the cushion that they do.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

Kirk with a charge.

How come he doesn't drive like that for us, thats a blocking foul in the NBA!


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## LuolDeng (Feb 22, 2004)

such sweet thunder said:


> Kirk's D really is good. Its really apparent with him playing next to these 'star' players. He just doesn't allow the cushion that they do.


And in the end, IMO, that will get him on the 12 man roster.


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

How the hell was Kirk's a charge, and that is blocking?


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

Ben Gordon should be on this team, thats what this teams missing.


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## synergy825 (Apr 28, 2005)

4 point lead for Puerto Rico......Hinrich misses 2 perimeter shots.


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## UMfan83 (Jan 15, 2003)

As much as I hate to say it, Kirk has looked pretty bad out there. He just got owned by Arroyo.


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## synergy825 (Apr 28, 2005)

sloth said:


> Ben Gordon should be on this team, thats what this teams missing.


Ben Gordon is playing for the British team. Anyways, the guard position is already stacked.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

synergy825 said:


> Ben Gordon is playing for the British team. Anyways, the guard position is already stacked.


No he's not, Luol Deng is, not Ben Gordon. Ben Gordon is chatting on AIM right now to be more specefic.


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

KHinrich12 said:


> And in the end, IMO, that will get him on the 12 man roster.


 I don't know.

Kirk passed up open shoots and took bad ones. He kinda looks like hes pressing out there. May need a little more experience . . .


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## LuolDeng (Feb 22, 2004)

such sweet thunder said:


> I don't know.
> 
> Kirk passed up open shoots and took bad ones. He kinda looks like hes pressing out there. May need a little more experience . . .


Could be, and the more I think about it I don't really have any idea who would get cut ahead of him?


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## synergy825 (Apr 28, 2005)

sloth said:


> No he's not, Luol Deng is, not Ben Gordon. Ben Gordon is chatting on AIM right now to be more specefic.


I read somewhere that they were trying to get Gordon as well.


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## L.O.B (Jun 13, 2002)

That floor burn Battier recieved while going for that loose ball was brilliant.


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## synergy825 (Apr 28, 2005)

KHinrich12 said:


> Could be, and the more I think about it I don't really have any idea who would get cut ahead of him?


If there was a next cut, it would be either Battier or Bowen


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

I can't believe Daniel Santiago is dominating our big guys. I remember watching him in Milwaukee, he sucks so bad, he's slowfooted, thats embarassing for our big guys.


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## kulaz3000 (May 3, 2006)

synergy825 said:


> If there was a next cut, it would be either Battier or Hinrich.


Coach K isn't going to cut his fellow Dukey...


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## LuolDeng (Feb 22, 2004)

synergy825 said:


> If there was a next cut, it would be either Battier or Bowen


I doubt K would cut Battier. There has to be 2 more to go, will be interesting to see.


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## synergy825 (Apr 28, 2005)

sloth said:


> I can't believe Daniel Santiago is dominating our big guys. I remember watching him in Milwaukee, he sucks so bad, he's slowfooted, thats embarassing for our big guys.


International basketball's different. I know that there is no such thing as defensive 3 seconds so Santiago can just camp all day inside the paint.


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## synergy825 (Apr 28, 2005)

KHinrich12 said:


> I doubt K would cut Battier. There has to be 2 more to go, will be interesting to see.


then it will be Hinrich probably who gets cut.


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

Santiago's playing like a pig in slop.  This is home for him. He knows these rules.


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## kulaz3000 (May 3, 2006)

synergy825 said:


> International basketball's different. I know that there is no such thing as defensive 3 seconds so Santiago can just camp all day inside the paint.


Yes, we i know the rules are all different, this and that etc etc and even more so after that. But we've got proffesional ballers, the best in the world. If we don't have the brains to adjust, learn and exploit those rules ourselves we don't deserve to be called the best. Its all about learning the new rules, and using them to your advantage like the other countries do.

The only thing we have at a disadvantage is that some international teams play together more frequently having more chemistry.. but we've got to stop using the rules and things alike as an excuse. Its not like we havn't been in the international basketball scene since our *** whooping last time, we've been in it for years, DECADES.. no more excuses!


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## L.O.B (Jun 13, 2002)

No way does Battier get cut, he is doing some very good things off ball that often go unappreciated but not by the coach who taught him those things.


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## the-asdf-man (Jun 29, 2006)

who else is rooting for hte underdog lolz (except for kirk of course )


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

synergy825 said:


> International basketball's different. I know that there is no such thing as defensive 3 seconds so Santiago can just camp all day inside the paint.


No, our big guys are just soft and becoming Santiago's *****es.


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

Elton Brand with his signature short jumper face-to-the-basket, in the paint.

God, I miss that.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

Interestingly enough, the 2nd unit is better than the first.

And Bill Walton just said Team USA is playing like the Bulls will be, and that Bull will become historic.


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## LuolDeng (Feb 22, 2004)

Walton giving the Bulls love


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

Paxson should sign Daniel Santiago as our bigman, he's a pig in slop.


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## LuolDeng (Feb 22, 2004)

Hinrich playing some good transition D there


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

lol. bill walton giving props to skiles and pax.

boo to all the naysayers who say kirk will get cut. he's going to make it. he has the powerbead tattoo people, come on.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

Carmelo Anthony just called it HIS team.


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

I don't know Miz. I'll try to be positive. I'll give you this -- he looks like he could be the best pg out there. I like how his D compares and how he is pacing the game. But everything just looks a little stilted.


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## UMfan83 (Jan 15, 2003)

I can't believe how Bill Walton randomly praised the Bulls out of nowhere. Kirk looked a lot better his second time out there....except for the end of the quarter


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

such sweet thunder said:


> I don't know Miz. I'll try to be positive. I'll give you this -- he looks like he could be the best pg out there. I like how his D compares and how he is pacing the game. But everything just looks a little stilted.


ya know i'm just trying to keep the positive thinking vibe going.

and i'm wearing my powerbead bracelet tonight.

:clown:


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## synergy825 (Apr 28, 2005)

Nice halftime show.


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## rwj333 (Aug 10, 2002)

I'm rooting pretty heavily for Kirk but he's been a slight disappointment through the 7 or so minutes he's played. I cringed when he lost the ball before the half. C'mon dude!


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

rwj333 said:


> I'm rooting pretty heavily for Kirk but he's been a slight disappointment through the 7 or so minutes he's played. I cringed when he lost the ball before the half. C'mon dude!


Thabo did that during summerleague, and he's god, its no big deal.


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## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

Hate saying this but Kirk was probably the worst US player on the floor in the1st half. His D was solid but his O :sour:. Of the 15 player chosen he's probably the 12th best player so I wasn't expecting fireworks but hopefully he starts to play w/ a bit more confidence on the other end of the court.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

Kirk for three. HELL YEAH< HELL ****ING YEAH!!!!!!!!!!


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## synergy825 (Apr 28, 2005)

More Bulls love!!! I can't believe it. lol Walton is on the Bull's nuts.


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## LuolDeng (Feb 22, 2004)

Kirk!!


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

Kirk and Lebron with some male bonding. Hopefully this is a sign of things to come with the Bulls, really, we need to play defense like this.


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## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

Kirk with the 3! :clap:. That's more like it!

LeBron w/ the vicious SLAM! 

Our D has completely worn down PR. They look demoralized.


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## UMfan83 (Jan 15, 2003)

Someone get a screen cap of the Lebron-Kirk salute!?!

Seriously, Its getting a little scary with all of Walton's "The Bulls are so great, I'll bring them up randomly whenever I wish" talk. Do Bill and Scott have a special relationship going on?


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## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

I didn't think that Bron would be able to finish that. but then again, it's Lebron


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## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

UMfan83 said:


> Someone get a screen cap of the Lebron-Kirk salute!?!
> 
> Seriously, Its getting a little scary with all of Walton's "The Bulls are so great, I'll bring them up randomly whenever I wish" talk. Do Bill and Scott have a special relationship going on?


 I'm getting kind of sick of hearing about the Bulls tonight.


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

kirk looking much better in the second half.

bill walton giving sympathies to the hinrich family. classy.

kirk will make this team.


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## UMfan83 (Jan 15, 2003)

spongyfungy said:


> I'm getting kind of sick of hearing about the Bulls tonight.


That's what I was thinking. For one night, I know what its like to be a Cavs/Heat/Lakers fan, except they keep talking about the team as a whole...its rediculous.


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## UMfan83 (Jan 15, 2003)

mizenkay said:


> kirk looking much better in the second half.
> 
> bill walton giving sympathies to the hinrich family. classy.
> 
> kirk will make this team.


He said Kirk's grandfather died.... I thought I read it was his grandmother?


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

UMfan83 said:


> He said Kirk's grandfather died.... I thought I read it was his grandmother?


his grandfather. he was 95.


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## LuolDeng (Feb 22, 2004)

That LeBron guy can play a little bit


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## LuolDeng (Feb 22, 2004)

Hinrich misses a 3 and then gets called for a foul on the other end.

That was a charge...


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## kulaz3000 (May 3, 2006)

Chris Paul is good, but i want Kirk To start, not only because his a bull. His not as quick as Paul but his just as good a passer, taller, and plays alot better defense. Its better to have a more stable player like Kirk to start the game, and have someone like Paul coming off the bench to give them energy...

KIRK HINRICH TO START!


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## synergy825 (Apr 28, 2005)

US vs china on Monday! I wanna see Yao Ming and that Yi Jianlin guy.


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## LuolDeng (Feb 22, 2004)

Damn, Kirk can't find his shot from deep tonight.


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## synergy825 (Apr 28, 2005)

Hinrich needs to work on his outside shooting.


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## the-asdf-man (Jun 29, 2006)

synergy825 said:


> US vs china on Monday! I wanna see Yao Ming and that Yi Jianlin guy.


yao's not playing


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

lol, ESPN talking about how they aren't going to talk back to the refs, and while they're doing that, Lebron gets called for a foul, and goes over to talk back to the refs and they cut off of him.


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## LuolDeng (Feb 22, 2004)

Kirk with a nice finish.

He will make the team.


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## synergy825 (Apr 28, 2005)

Is he injured? how about Yi Jianin?


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

I think its a good idea for Team USA to mix the star players with the more glue type players.

I like the mix of players in the lineups in the 2nd half much more than the 1st half.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

Dream Team, Dream Team!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## the-asdf-man (Jun 29, 2006)

synergy825 said:


> Is he injured? how about Yi Jianin?


i read somewhere that he said his broken foot isnt fully healed.

not sure about yijian


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## synergy825 (Apr 28, 2005)

This style of play is good for Joe Johnson.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

Hopefully they breakout the globetrotter music for the highlights!


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## synergy825 (Apr 28, 2005)

Man LeBron and Wade are hanging alot together.....and how James convinced Wade to do the 3 year contract thing. Wouldn't it be scary if they played together???


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

synergy825 said:


> Man LeBron and Wade are hanging alot together.....and how James convinced Wade to do the 3 year contract thing. Wouldn't it be scary if they played together???


In Chicago...


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## synergy825 (Apr 28, 2005)

sloth said:


> In Chicago...


I really wish....lol if they happen to come here. who on the team would you willing to part with to give way to the 2 superstars?


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## Showtyme (Jun 24, 2002)

Kirk will play to make the team in the next few games. He had way nice third quarter, but looked sort of weak sauce at most other times. Still, he'll be the "true PG" that Coach K will use for his less flashy, more college-style 2nd unit (Hinrich, Arenas, JJ, Jamison, Brand). The guys that came out really young (Melo, LeBron, Bosh) and play less college-style ball are in the first unit, and I think are being used carefully to be crazy athletes that intimidate and squash the other team's spirit.

I don't see Bowen or Battier staying, but probably one of them will.

Team USA could use a bigger, slightly fatter center. The only real bulky guy for the middle is Brad Miller. That's fine, but I just don't see Bosh or Dwight Howard dealing with Yao Ming very well. They had enough trouble with Daniel Santiago, who plays like the big 7-0 bulky guy he is.

I wonder if this will last until 2008.


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## kulaz3000 (May 3, 2006)

synergy825 said:


> I really wish....lol if they happen to come here. who on the team would you willing to part with to give way to the 2 superstars?


How about the whole team..


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## kulaz3000 (May 3, 2006)

Showtyme said:


> Kirk will play to make the team in the next few games. He had way nice third quarter, but looked sort of weak sauce at most other times. Still, he'll be the "true PG" that Coach K will use for his less flashy, more college-style 2nd unit (Hinrich, Arenas, JJ, Jamison, Brand). The guys that came out really young (Melo, LeBron, Bosh) and play less college-style ball are in the first unit, and I think are being used carefully to be crazy athletes that intimidate and squash the other team's spirit.
> 
> I don't see Bowen or Battier staying, but probably one of them will.
> 
> ...


Remember some players may always get injured, develop and new players will be inserted. Oden if he turns out will probably be on the team, Howard and Bosh could have put on extra beef by then, and other young players could have developed by then. Or other could have regressed and be taken off the team.. 

This is a three year progressional process, i don't see drastic changes but i see players being added that can't possibly be left off if they blow up and turn into superstars in the next few years.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

I think Bruce Bowen is a lock to get cut.


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## LuolDeng (Feb 22, 2004)

sloth said:


> I think Bruce Bowen is a lock to get cut.


I was just thinking that myself.

After that who would be last?


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

KHinrich12 said:


> I was just thinking that myself.
> 
> After that who would be last?


I think either Arenas or Joe Johnson.


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

i would love to see the all 2003 lineup at some point during the next few exhibition games.

kirk
wade
lebron
carmello
bosh


:rock:


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

USA is back on top!!!!!!


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## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

Nice comeback from Kirk in the 2nd half. Made his shots and proved Y he's the best defender at the guard spot in this country.


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## synergy825 (Apr 28, 2005)

sloth said:


> I think either Arenas or Joe Johnson.


I wouldn't cut Joe Johnson....he's one of the more reliable outside shooters. It will probably be either Arenas or Battier. Arenas needs the ball in his hands so he can score, and we already have enough of those. Battier will be great defensively, but I don't know who else can you cut. We need all the big guys we can.


so Bowen and either Battier/Arenas will get cut. They could also cut Hinrich as well. It just depends on what direction the coaching staff goes to.


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## synergy825 (Apr 28, 2005)

mizenkay said:


> i would love to see the all 2003 lineup at some point during the next few exhibition games.
> 
> kirk
> wade
> ...


I prefer

Kirk
Wade
LeBron
Bosh
Howard


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

Bruce Bowen and Brad Miller should be the cuts. Chris Bosh gives you the long range shooting that Brad Miller does, plus he is a million times more athletic and will fit the uptempo theme much better.


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## cAMPus hooligan (May 24, 2006)

I'm thinking Bowen and Jamison.


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

btw, NBA TV will have the postgame coming up LIVE in a few minutes.


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

coach K identified kirk's defense in the second half as one of the reasons team usa pulled away.

oh yeah. he'll make it.

coach K also praised jamison and battier.


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## FanOfAll8472 (Jun 28, 2003)

Sir Patchwork said:


> Bruce Bowen and Brad Miller should be the cuts. Chris Bosh gives you the long range shooting that Brad Miller does, plus he is a million times more athletic and will fit the uptempo theme much better.


Agreed.

Why on earth would you cut Joe Johnson or Gilbert Arenas? Both can handle the ball, distribute, and shoot. Joe Johnson is a very good defender to boot. If you have nothing going offensively, Arenas is the type of player you put in. He can nail a 3 and catch fire, sparking a run. According to Walton, Jamison practiced with the first unit during the week, but his play was all right. He knocked down open 3s, but his rebounding was lackluster and he had a couple reckless drives to the hoop. I'd consider cutting Jamison instead of Brad Miller, but I'd still cut Miller. Jamison typically gets a lot of garbage points off offensive rebounds.

I don't really see a case for leaving Brad Miller on the team. He's a big man who can hit outside shots, something Bosh can do (though not today), as can Elton Brand, Jamison, and Anthony (players who play both the 4 and the 5). Brad Miller is physically bigger than everyone except Howard, but he plays soft and is an inferior rebounder to the likes of Brand, Bosh, and especially, Howard. Speaking of Howard, in actual games, he needs to play a lot more. Incredibly dominant.


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

:usa:


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## fleetwood macbull (Jan 23, 2004)

mizenkay said:


> coach K identified _kirk's defense_ in the second half as one of the reasons team usa pulled away.
> 
> oh yeah. he'll make it.
> 
> coach K also praised jamison and battier.


i might also term it as leadership. Not necesarily inspiration. It was inspiring...but it was as if Kirk pointed everyone in the right direction. Said.... OK this is how were going to take them down.
Like he was sort of proving it to them. They all knew it, but Kirk was like, OK I got Arroyo. 

practically speaking, they became organized. Communication was better. Movemnent more intelligent. I saw them in the right rotations and more decisive at both ends


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

fleetwood macbull said:


> i might also term it as leadership. Not necesarily inspiration. It was inspiring...but it was as if Kirk pointed everyone in the right direction. Said.... OK this is how were going to take them down.
> Like he was sort of proving it to them. They all knew it, but Kirk was like, OK I got Arroyo.
> 
> practically speaking, they became organized. Communication was better. Movemnent more intelligent. I saw them in the right rotations and more decisive at both ends


Yeah, what did team USA only give up what, 22 points in quarters when Kirk was guarding Arroyo? And thats both quarters combined. Unlike when the inferior Chris Paul was doing his sad excuse of guarding Arroyo.


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## fleetwood macbull (Jan 23, 2004)

sloth said:


> Yeah, what did team USA only give up what, 22 points in quarters when Kirk was guarding Arroyo? And thats both quarters combined. Unlike when the inferior Chris Paul was doing his sad excuse of guarding Arroyo.


Chris Paul is young. Played his talented game on offense. In this setting, they needed him to lead. I expect him to get it soon. Arroyo had too much freedom to move around. CP just needed to recognize what the problem was at the time. I don't know what kind of defender he is really. Just needed to realize what coach K was looking for


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

I think it's just a matter of time before Dwight Howard starts for the US. If nothing else, it's kind of nice to go into a game knowing your opponent literally has no chance of getting offensive rebounds with him on the floor.

Other than Howard, I liked what I saw from Kirk, Battier, Brand . . . actually, everyone looked good. I can't say for sure, but I don't think Coach K will be leaving US shores without Joe Johnson and Gilbert Arenas.


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## L.O.B (Jun 13, 2002)

After watching the game last night, I wonder how overrated Larry Brown really is? The US played hard last night and played team basketball, it was a far cry from what Brown put on the court a few years back.


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## Hustle (Dec 17, 2003)

L.O.B said:


> After watching the game last night, I wonder how overrated Larry Brown really is? The US played hard last night and played team basketball, it was a far cry from what Brown put on the court a few years back.


one thing's for sure his career ended on a down note.


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

box score

article from USA Basketball



*"I thought our defense was the turning point in that second period. We got a little bit overextended – our guys were so excited to play."


You know one for nine from 3-point range and we just settled down. The next group settled us down. I thought two of the kids … sorry I’m calling them kids … then our role players were very good, Battier and Jamison … they just make a lot of plays … they are not spectacular, but you know like Hinrich’s defense … I thought Gilbert really had a great second quarter. That’s what we need … we need a lot of guys stepping up. And those were veterans that stepped up. That’s why these guys are on the team.* ~ coach K


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

That 0/1/0 in 10 minutes stat line doesn't bode well for Bruce Bowen.


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

Dime Mag gives props to Kirk



_*We liked what ’Bron and Flash brought and thought Kirk Hinrich played very well, especially on D.*_


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## Showtyme (Jun 24, 2002)

kulaz3000 said:


> Remember some players may always get injured, develop and new players will be inserted. Oden if he turns out will probably be on the team, Howard and Bosh could have put on extra beef by then, and other young players could have developed by then. Or other could have regressed and be taken off the team..
> 
> This is a three year progressional process, i don't see drastic changes but i see players being added that can't possibly be left off if they blow up and turn into superstars in the next few years.


True, but I don't see Bosh ever filling out. I think Dwight Howard has a frame where he can become more athletic and put on more muscle, but I don't think he'll ever be a really hulking presence.

Contrary to popular belief, the international competition DOES have really huge guys out there. Team USA seems to avoid confronting that size by 1) playing full-court pressure, forcing their guards to be smoother with the ball, and trapping at the timeline; 2) help defense/swarming in the paint; and 3) though we didn't see it all that much, a zone defense.

I know it's almost ad nauseum already, but that's Chicago Bulls-style defense, minus some of the pressure.

Hey, has anyone else noticed how freakishly long Bosh's neck is? It's comical and all that, but it also means that from heel to shoulder he probably stands as tall as most 6'9" guys. I'd really put at least two inches of his height on that freakish neck.

My vote is to cut one of Bowen/Battier and then maybe Joe Johnson. He does do really nice things, but if we're keeping a tweener I'd rather keep Antawn.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

Showtyme said:


> My vote is to cut one of Bowen/Battier and then maybe Joe Johnson. He does do really nice things, but if we're keeping a tweener I'd rather keep Antawn.


With Amare going home to rest his knee, they can just cut Bowen or Battier and have the roster set, right?


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

they need two more, after amare.

i think Bowen will be cut. thinking towards the future (2008 Olympics) it's more important for a guy like Kirk to be on the team over an already old Bruce Bowen, IMO. 

the last cut?? jamison? that's gonna be a tough call. i agree, no way Coach K cuts Shane Battier.


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

L.O.B said:


> After watching the game last night, I wonder how overrated Larry Brown really is? The US played hard last night and played team basketball, it was a far cry from what Brown put on the court a few years back.


 I came away with the reverse: Krzyzewski knows how to coach. I know, news flash.

Seriously though, I love the way he plays substitutions. When a player struggles he pulls them, sits them down for a couple of minutes to regain composure. But then puts them back in so that they can prove themselves. It's like, his substitutions aren't a punishment, but a tool to help his players. I would love to play for coach K.

Also, why hasn't a US coach adopted a defence first mentatlity before? I just don't get it. Ware opponents down; this seems so obvious.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

Battier is a perfect fit for what Team USA is trying to accomplish, IMO.

Bowen would seem a likely choice to be cut with Battier making the team, although I still find it funny that Bowen's inclusion in the process marked the start of the "new" philosophy of Team USA.

Its going to be a tough call.

two of these six get cut

Bowen, Hinrich, Battier, Jamison, Arenas, Johnson

Three guards, three forwards. 

Guard quartet would be Paul, Wade, (two of johnson, arenas, hinrich) with Lebron being able to play G if needed.

Its a crap shoot. Johnson vs. Hinrich, IMO. I say Johnson gets the boot, although his shooting could be very useful in these games. These are college coaches making this decision and the team is adopting a defense first mentality, which Hinrich has no problem playing. Perhaps Arenas is the guy who does not make it. He didn't look very strong last night. I've seen plenty of great NBA players struggle against the internationals. Iverson for one. 


If Hinrich gets cut then fine… save the energy for the regular season. He gets tired enough as it is.

The Kirk looked pretty good out there last night.


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## rwj333 (Aug 10, 2002)

I really wish Puerto Rico had played zone defense the entire game. They were doing fairly well with it against the first unit, but the second unit would likely be more effective against it. 

Was I the only one mad when Kirk got whistled for the blocking foul when he did a perfect job drawing a charge?


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## rwj333 (Aug 10, 2002)

kukoc4ever said:


> Battier is a perfect fit for what Team USA is trying to accomplish, IMO.
> 
> Bowen would seem a likely choice to be cut with Battier making the team, although I still find it funny that Bowen's inclusion in the process marked the start of the "new" philosophy of Team USA.
> 
> ...


Before last night, I would have cut Bowen and Jamison, but Jamison played particularly well and was the second leading scorer. 

IMO, there's a small, outside chance that Bosh might be cut; he didn't play too well last night, and Carmelo, Lebron, Brand, and Antawn Jamison are arguably just as effective at the PF spot.


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## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

L.O.B said:


> After watching the game last night, I wonder how overrated Larry Brown really is? The US played hard last night and played team basketball, it was a far cry from what Brown put on the court a few years back.


There definitely was more fire there. I'm not a Larry Brown fan at all. As a person, he strikes me as an extremely selfish man and, frankly, a whiner. I don't care for him.

But I think he's going to end up getting an unfair reputation if (when, in my opinion) Team USA returns to dominance under Coach K. 

This team is comprised of different individual players, with different attitudes, and probably more importantly - a different mix of player types. Its better constructed. 

Also, this team is coming in fired up with something to prove after the humiliation in 2004. Its fired up. Our 2004 team didn't have that extra motivating factor (I'm not defending them - one should not need extra motivating factors to get up for the freakin' Olympics). 

Larry Brown certainly shouldn't be praised for what he did with Team USA in 2004, nor should he be praised for what he did with the Knicks last season. But I don't think he should be blamed either. He is far too accomplished as a coach - recently too since he wears a 2004 Championship ring - to have just suddenly become bad. Some situations are a good fit for him so that he can patiently impose his system (and his roster composition decisions) on the team he coaches. The 2004 Olympics and the 2006 Knicks weren't good situations for what he does best.


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

FYI - NBA TV will replay the game today at 4pm ET


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## fl_flash (Aug 19, 2002)

Ahhhhh. A quasi-real basketball game.

Hinrich looked decent. He's probably the best perimeter defender on team USA - and that will get him far. He did an excellent job on Arroyo funneling him around and/or denying him the ball. If he was more consistant with the outside shot, he'd be a lock for this team. As it is, I think he'd make it. Gotta figure Bowen is toast but that final cut is a tough one. Arenas and Jamison both came in and gave the team a little offensive spark when they needed it. Arenas especially; when he's on he's unstoppable. Joe Johnson gives you length and a good shot and he's a decent defender. Brad Miller is that good passing, high-post center that is pretty important in the International game. I could see Battier going but that's a tough call.

All-in-all, a good tune-up game. I'm looking forward to seeing how they come out against Team China.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

The first player I would cut from the team would be Melo. He's obviously a talented player, but he's not a good defender, and I'm fine with the idea of Wade, LeBron, or Arenas taking all the shots he takes.

K4E, you called it earlier in the thread. I like the lineups better in the second half that seemed to mesh "role players" with stars. It seems like Coach K inevitably started out with a star lineup, and somewhere around the second quarter, all the role plalyers got in together. Some balance in the starting lineup would be good, but of course that would require coach K to bring another of those stars off the bench.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

If we need to cut 3 players, my far-and-away choices would be Amare (knee), Melo (shot hog, 1-dimensional), and Jamison (see: Melo). 

Hinrich, Battier, and Bowen need to be kept IMO. Jerry Colangelo had the right idea choosing these guys. Look how much better our team's defense got when Battier came in. He drew charges, terrorized PR's guards with the half-court trap, all the little things that "superstars" don't do. It would make me sick if they chose a guy like Jamison or Melo over Shane Battier. 

Seriously, how many scorers does a team need? We need versatility, team play, and probably more than anything we need hustle defenders. Wade, LeBron, Bosh, Paul, and Arenas are PLENTY of offense.


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## rwj333 (Aug 10, 2002)

Melo is a very good offensive rebounder and very efficient scorer. He's probably a more efficient scorer in international play than Lebron or Wade as he's a better outside shooter. Coach K absolutely loves him and the probability of him getting cut is zero.

I'm definitely not a fan of his game, but there's no doubt he belongs on this team.


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## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

yodurk said:


> If we need to cut 3 players, my far-and-away choices would be Amare (knee), Melo (shot hog, 1-dimensional), and Jamison (see: Melo).
> 
> Hinrich, Battier, and Bowen need to be kept IMO. Jerry Colangelo had the right idea choosing these guys. Look how much better our team's defense got when Battier came in. He drew charges, terrorized PR's guards with the half-court trap, all the little things that "superstars" don't do. It would make me sick if they chose a guy like Jamison or Melo over Shane Battier.
> 
> Seriously, how many scorers does a team need? We need versatility, team play, and probably more than anything we need hustle defenders. Wade, LeBron, Bosh, Paul, and Arenas are PLENTY of offense.


I agree with Amare - no choice with his knee. I wouldn't want to see both Melo and Jamison cut. Just one of them (Melo would be my choice, but that is because I simply don't trust his attitude). 

Then cut Bowen. Done. 

Battier and Hinrich are versatile enough defenders to fill that needed role. Bowen is redundant in my opinion.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

ScottMay said:


> I think it's just a matter of time before Dwight Howard starts for the US. If nothing else, it's kind of nice to go into a game knowing your opponent literally has no chance of getting offensive rebounds with him on the floor.


Not to mention all the offensive rebounds he gets himself. He is just a monster. He had 5 offensive rebounds in 12 minutes last night, and 10 rebounds total. That's like 30 rebounds in your typical 36 minute outing!


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## jalen5 (Nov 19, 2004)

My observations:

1. Dwight Howard is a stud! This guy is just awesome!

2. Shane Battier MUST be on the team...He is a great defender w/ EXTREMELY high basketball intelligence and can step out and knock down the international 3.

3. Carmelo is playing w/ as much confidence as anyone out there, if not more. His shot looks great right now and Coach K really likes him...apparently, Carmelo has had a great attitude ever since showing up...He will not get cut.

4. Kirk Hinrich MUST be on the team...his ability to shoot the 3 and play D is crucial.

5. I didn't like the starting lineup...too many similar type players...2nd half was much better as far as lineups go.

6. The last 2 cuts are going to be REALLY, REALLY tough...
-- the locks: LeBron, Wade, Howard, Bosh, Arenas, Carmelo, Paul, Brand...
-- guys who should be locks IMO: Hinrich, Battier, Joe Johnson
-- that leaves 3 for 1 spot...Brad Miller, Antawn Jamison, and Bruce Bowen
-- I have no clue who the last spot will go to...I think I would choose Brad Miller if it was my
call

7. Team USA still could use a deadly 3 point shooter like Ray Allen or J.J. Redick...but still looks to be greatly improved from last year

8. I'm still worried about the difference in the international game...knocking ball of the rim, no hand checks, different style of play, facing zone defenses...but I think this group can win it


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

Why people would want Melo cut is beyond me, he's one of the leaders of the team, and played pretty good last night.


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

jalen5 said:


> My observations:
> 
> 1. Dwight Howard is a stud! This guy is just awesome!
> 
> ...


I agree with almost all of your points; especially about Melo. I think he, along with Wade and Lebron, were the three players who looked better than anyone else yesterday. I'm beginning to side with the fans that think his rap for being a one-dimensional player has gained way too much steam. 

I'm not certain if Kirk Hinrich 'must' be on the team, but he looked pretty good in the second half. He really sets the tone when he is on the court. I agree with all of your cuts, except I might keep Jamison instead of Miller.

One final comment to add: Wade is a stud. His defense is so good -- along with everything else he does. Not really a pure shooter, but I want him on my team.


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## thebullybully (Jan 26, 2005)

sloth said:


> Why people would want Melo cut is beyond me, he's one of the leaders of the team, and played pretty good last night.



Way short of wanting him cut, I definitely have to say that reading the quotes about teamwork and defense from the big three in the past week had given me hope. I was sure Wade had it in him, confident Anthony could find it again, and hoping James would see it in them and buy in a little. But after seeing them play that first quarter last night, and the clips shown of them actually saying the same words I'd been reading all week, there's just something wrong. They look suspect to me, although I find Anthony to be the most genuine of the three.

I hope having the second unit show em how it's done will help, but I really think it's going to be a shakeup of those two groups combining the offensive talents of the first group with the defensive talents of the second group, to make two balanced groups that will ultimately make this team unstoppable.

I really don't blame those three for the something wrong that I'm talking about. I think that is something wrong in the philosophy. Team USA says they are a team first united for something bigger than each of them, but in the same breath says here is our face, these three stars we are trying to make in the image of the three superstars of the dream team. Is the media causing a misinterpretation? Adding in all the star/ face of the team junk?

I really want to love this team.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

Problem with Wade's defense and LeBron's defense also is that they go for steals almost every time down. Yesterday it worked well, but against a more disciplined team, those habits could come back to bite them in the butt. That's where they need the discipline and straight man to man tenacity of guys like Hinrich and Battier.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

And for people saying this team is playing on a chip on their shoulder, and that Brown's team in 2004 didn't is just blatantly wrong. The USA got 6th place in the Worlds in 2002, and they had all the talk about reestablishing dominance, never happened because Larry Brown is a pretty damn ****ty coach.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

Does anyone have the gamelog?


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

If you're ranking the guys by minutes played, here is the list

Dwyane Wade 20
Gilbert Arenas 18
Joe Johnson 18
Carmelo Anthony 17
LeBron James 17
Chris Paul 15
Kirk Hinrich 14
Shane Battier 14
Elton Brand 13
Antawn Jamison 12
Dwight Howard 12
Chris Bosh 10
Bruce Bowen 10
Brad Miller 10

I think the last two cuts will be Bowen and Bosh, with Bowen being a no-brainer as long as coach think Hinrich, Battier, and Brand are enough glue guys.

I think the final cut will be down between Bosh, Jamison, & Miller. I really don't see how adding Bosh to the roster really adds anything. Miller can pass, Jamison can shoot, Howard can board, and Brand is the "glue" that can do a bit of everything. In terms of replication of skills Brand can do everything Bosh can do and do some things better.

In terms of lineups, I would want to see this in the future:

1st Unit
PG Hinrich
SG Wade
SF Battier
PF LeBron
C Brand

2nd Unit
PG Paul
SG Arenas
SF Anthony
PF Miller
C Howard

Johnson & Jamison as our #11 & #12 guys in case someone's shot is off or for a change of pace. I think LeBron and Mello's games are too similar to have them both be out on the floor together and still remain as effective as they normally are.

You could switch Wade and Arenas in the lineups if you wanted a bit more defensive balance, although I doubt Wade would like coming off the bench much. Who knows though, as his personality seems hard to read for me.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

I'd rather have

PG-Kirk Hinrich
SG-Dwyane Wade
SF-Carmelo Anthony
PF-Lebron James
C- Dwight Howard

wtih

PG-Chris Paul
SG-Joe Johnson
SF-Shane Battier
PF-Elton Brand
C- Brad Miller

with Arenas and Jamison getting sub minutes throughout the entire game.


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

an account of the game from slam online 



> – Third starts with Joe Johnson, Hinrich, Dwight, Bron and Wade, small but lethal lineup. Is Bron the power forward? They begin with back-to-back steals. Hinrich wets a three. 55-35.


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## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

thebullybully said:


> Way short of wanting him cut, I definitely have to say that reading the quotes about teamwork and defense from the big three in the past week had given me hope. I was sure Wade had it in him, confident Anthony could find it again, and hoping James would see it in them and buy in a little.


You think LeBron James needs to look to Carmelo Anthony's example to "buy in" to becoming a team player? 

Carmelo Anthony averaged 2.7 assists a game last year and he's a substandard team defender despite being blessed with wonderful athleticism and length. 

LeBron averaged 6.6 assists a game. Hell, Kobe Bryant - often labeled the most selfish of the superstars - averaged 4.5. And they are both far superior man and team defenders. 

Anthony is a selfish player. He's the last guy on that team I want anyone looking to as an example of team basketball.


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## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

Pretty much everyone whose closely followed Team USA in Vegas has said Melo's been the most impressive player thus far. The coaches are nuts about him. He's not going anywhere guys and I don't know why people would wanna get rid of him when he's doing so well.


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## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

sloth said:


> And for people saying this team is playing on a chip on their shoulder, and that Brown's team in 2004 didn't is just blatantly wrong. The USA got 6th place in the Worlds in 2002, and they had all the talk about reestablishing dominance, never happened because Larry Brown is a pretty damn ****ty coach.


Thats a good point, sloth. But the Worlds took place in Indiana, we got 6th, and still hardly anyone outside of close NBA observers/fans knew or cared. 

The 2004 Olympics became a widely debated and publicized source of national sporting shame. The two events, and the impact they had, are on completely different levels. 

Plus, the roster for the 2002 Worlds was pretty weak and I think USA Basketball still believed that if they loaded us up with stars for 2004 we'd walk to the gold. I think the players and probably Larry Brown thought that too. 

Like I said, I don't think Larry Brown should be praised for the job he did at the Olympics. But he shouldn't take the blame for it either. Unfortunately for him, I think he will end up taking the blame even though the reality of it all is that the whole group failed together.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

Melo is carrying baggage with him that he's earned since coming in the league. He seems to be a classic case of a guy falling in love with his own press clippings, leading to a ME ME ME -- hey everyone look at ME style that has hurt Denver's overall production terribly. If he stays with Team USA and absorbs the vibe happening, it could be the best thing that could possibly happen for his career. He is a crazy talent, and -- dare I say it -- an athletic freak. If he learns to play a team game and to take defense seriously, the sky is the limit, with his p...p...p...you know.


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## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

SPMJ said:


> Pretty much everyone whose closely followed Team USA in Vegas has said Melo's been the most impressive player thus far. The coaches are nuts about him. *He's not going anywhere guys * and I don't know why people would wanna get rid of him when he's doing so well.


I know he won't be cut. I'm just saying what I'd do.


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## thebullybully (Jan 26, 2005)

Ron Cey said:


> You think LeBron James needs to look to Carmelo Anthony's example to "buy in" to becoming a team player?


This has absolutely nothing to do with the last NBA season or anyone's number of assists. I think every team LeBron James has ever been on organized or pickup has been designed to revolve around him. And there is nothing wrong with that, but that isn't what this team says it is supposed to be doing.

I have seen Carmelo Anthony take a back seat during critical portions of a big game when someone else's specialty is called for, and he did it for Jim Boeheim who happens to be sitting second chair to Coach K. That's why I have confidence he can do it again if needed.

I am not calling anyone selfish. I think all three of these young players are spectacular, but groomed for something other that the big picture here, and I am not sure the overall mixed message of the TeamUSA philosophy can keep away the occasional flare up of star issues. Last night's James goes to talk to the refs when it has been explicitly forbidden by the coach moment as a very low grade example.

My concern is not with the players as I stated, it's with the mixed messages I'm seeing from higher up.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

The Boeheim factor is a good point in favor of retaining Anthony. He has proven he can bring out the best in the kid.


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## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

> This has absolutely nothing to do with the last NBA season or anyone's number of assists. I think every team LeBron James has ever been on organized or pickup has been designed to revolve around him. And there is nothing wrong with that, but that isn't what this team says it is supposed to be doing.


Same with Anthony. Except that despite how those teams are organized, LeBron is refreshingly team oriented despite the model, while Anthony plays more selfishly. 



> *I have seen Carmelo Anthony take a back seat during critical portions of a big game when someone else's specialty is called for*, and he did it for Jim Boeheim who happens to be sitting second chair to Coach K. That's why I have confidence he can do it again if needed.


When? In the NCAA tournament? He was suffering from a bad back and was forced into a slightly smaller offensive role because of it. And he hasn't been anywhere near that type of player/person since he joined the NBA. 



> I am not calling anyone selfish. I think all three of these young players are spectacular, but groomed for something other that the big picture here, and I am not sure the overall mixed message of the TeamUSA philosophy can keep away the occasional flare up of star issues. Last night's James goes to talk to the refs when it has been explicitly forbidden by the coach moment as a very low grade example.
> 
> My concern is not with the players as I stated, it's with the mixed messages I'm seeing from higher up.


Well, I think those are fair points. I was only taking issue with that one part of your earlier post.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

I'd be stunned if Bosh or Brad Miller were cut. We need big guys... we should bring along at least 4. No need to not have a bigger body at the 4/5 if needed due to foul trouble.

Bosh, Howard, Brand, Miller.

I can't see any of these four not being on the final roster.

The coaches have been saying many nice things about Jamison as well... which leads me to believe he'll make the team.

Given that Melo and Bosh were in the starting lineup last night, I don't think they are going anywhere.

IMO, it coes down to one of Johnson, Hinrich and Arenas not making the team.

If Bowen gets cut, they will keep Battier and I have a hard time cutting Jamison on this somewhat size challenged roster.


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## Pain5155 (May 28, 2006)

USA has already won the gold. Every game is gonna be over before it even started. No one will stop them. This isnt 2004 where lebron, and wade were coming off there rookie season, this is 2006 and every game will be a 40+ point blowout. 

Starters should be:

PG-Chris Paul (this guy plays like hes been in the nba for years)
SG-Dwyane Wade 
SF-Carmelo Anthony
PF-Lebron James
C- Chris Bosh or Dwight Howard (it doesnt really make a difference who starts between thse to, but it will be CB4)


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## girllovesthegame (Nov 3, 2005)

Pain5155 said:


> USA has already won the gold. Every game is gonna be over before it even started. *No one will stop them.* This isnt 2004 where lebron, and wade were coming off there rookie season, this is 2006 and every game will be a 40+ point blowout.
> 
> Starters should be:
> 
> ...


I agree. I have really good feelings about this team. I just hope they don't get "road weary" once they hit the road.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

kukoc4ever said:


> I'd be stunned if Bosh or Brad Miller were cut. We need big guys... we should bring along at least 4. No need to not have a bigger body at the 4/5 if needed due to foul trouble.
> 
> Bosh, Howard, Brand, Miller.
> 
> ...


If I'm reading you correctly, then, you believe the last cut comes down to a choice between Hinrich and Arenas. Any predictions?


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## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

TomBoerwinkle#1 said:


> If I'm reading you correctly, then, you believe the last cut comes down to a choice between Hinrich and Arenas. Any predictions?


I'm going to answer this. Hinrich.

I wrote earlier about what I would do. But what I actually think will happen is that Bowen and Hinrich will be sent home. The only other combination I could see is Bowen/Johnson. 

But if I'm Coach K, I'm keeping Johnson due to his size and versatility.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

TomBoerwinkle#1 said:


> If I'm reading you correctly, then, you believe the last cut comes down to a choice between Hinrich and Arenas. Any predictions?


I think it comes down to one of Johnson, Hinrich or Arenas.

I think Johnson would be the player cut, based on the praise lavished on Hinrich and that college coaches are making the decision.

It could be Arenas though.

Arenas is clearly the better NBA basketball player though. He's also much better than Shane Battier, but this team needs some role players, not all all-stars.

Heck, Iverson was not even invited to play.


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

kukoc4ever said:


> I'd be stunned if Bosh or Brad Miller were cut. We need big guys... we should bring along at least 4. No need to not have a bigger body at the 4/5 if needed due to foul trouble.
> 
> Bosh, Howard, Brand, Miller.
> 
> ...


I'd be shocked if Brad Miller were cut as well. He's pretty much the ideal C in international ball. Jamison is also another guy whose game should benefit playing international ball. He's going to be called on to knock down outside shots, and that really is the only bright spot in his game.

I'm just looking at it like we need 4 out of Bosh, Brand, Howard, Jamison, and Miller. Jamison can be considered a "big" in international ball. Lebron and Anthony can play the "4" against most teams they would face I'd imagine as well. I just see Bosh as being odd man out.

Bosh did start, yet only played 10 minutes.



> Given that Melo and Bosh were in the starting lineup last night, I don't think they are going anywhere.
> 
> IMO, it coes down to one of Johnson, Hinrich and Arenas not making the team.
> 
> If Bowen gets cut, they will keep Battier and I have a hard time cutting Jamison on this somewhat size challenged roster.


I don't think Melo is going anywhere either, but I'd love to see him in with the second unit. I think he would be much more effective that way.

If they do keep all five of the aforementioned as you suggested, then I definately agree it will be between Hinrich, Arenas, and Johnson. Here, I think Joe Johnson would be the odd man out. Outside of size and finishing at the rim, Hinrich is better (remember although Johnson shot a high % at Phoenix, he still is only a career 37% 3-pt shooter).


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

My cuts, would probaly be Bosh and Bowen, but I don't think Bosh will be cut unfortunately.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

Another item to consider is that D'Antoni is the assistant coach. 

I wonder if he'd stick up for Johnson.

I keep forgetting that He's 6'7". I think I'd rather have Hinrich on the roster... although both are good.

Its a tough call.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

I think based on the team's overall philosophy, with the defensive emphasis, between Johnson and Hinrich, Kirk gets the call.

If Johnson is deemed safe and it is down to Hinrich and Arenas...I don't know. Kirk is probably still the guy from a philosophy standpoint, but Gilbert is no slouch, and has more sexy star power. It would be tempting for a media conscious Team USA to go with the bigger name, and if that was the call, it would not be necessarily a bad call -- either way one could argue it would be the correct call. Obviously, I'd rather it be Kirk on Team USA.


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

i don't think they'd send home two guards.

it's going to be bowen and another big/forward (bosh? doubt it) who'll miss this cut.

kirk's defense was specifically noted by coach K last night.

i hope you guys _aren't hoping_ kirk will get cut. :naughty:


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## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

mizenkay said:


> i don't think they'd send home two guards.
> 
> it's going to be bowen and another big/forward (bosh? doubt it) who'll miss this cut.
> 
> ...


Although ScottMay got me more excited about Hinrich making the squad with a post of his a few weeks ago, I'm still not 100% sure I want Hinrich on the team.

As a Team USA fan, I want Hinrich to make the team over Melo and Arenas because I genuinely believe he provides certain things unique to that team that will help it succeed. Melo and Arenas also have wonderful talents, but there are others on the team in place that can cover those roles. 

As a Bulls fan, I know that Hinrich plays balls out and that, despite his excellent motor, fatigue impacts his game. I don't want him getting worn down in March because of all the traveling and play from this summer. But ScottMay described a bunch of positives for Hinrich and the Bulls that probably outweigh this concern. 

Bottom line though, there is a part of my that won't be at all disappointed if Hinrich gets cut.


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## rwj333 (Aug 10, 2002)

Kirk is the only player on the team who can play good-to-great defense on opposing point guards. I think he makes it based almost solely on that aspect of his game.

Could anyone else have defended Arroyo?


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

Doesn't Kirk have immunity for being the best White American player on the team? Doesn't he get immunity!!!!!!!!?!??!?!?


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

Ron Cey said:


> Although ScottMay got me more excited about Hinrich making the squad with a post of his a few weeks ago, I'm still not 100% sure I want Hinrich on the team.
> 
> As a Team USA fan, I want Hinrich to make the team over Melo and Arenas because I genuinely believe he provides certain things unique to that team that will help it succeed. Melo and Arenas also have wonderful talents, but there are others on the team in place that can cover those roles.
> 
> ...


it's not like kirk would even play more than 20+ minutes (max) per game. more like the 14 he saw last night. some games it could even be less. 

and as far as the travel, well sure, there's a bit of jet lag, but give me first class flights (they flew commercial to china apparently) and 5 star hotels. it's not like they're camping. the worlds are over on sept. 3rd. he'll have a month to rest and get plenty of shots up at the berto before training camp. skiles has already said he would "rest" kirk and nocioni in sept. during the informal workouts. plus, probably limit his minutes somewhat in pre-season.

the benefits of playing on this team are huge. not only for him personally, but for the bulls team. it's called "finally getting some freakin' respect"

i will be very disappointed if he doesn't make the active 12, but it's not the end of the world if he doesn't.

of course when he makes it, there will inevitably be some that don't like that either.

kirk making the team is a win-win. i can't understand why people wouldn't want him to.





:usa:


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

mizenkay said:


> i don't think they'd send home two guards.
> 
> it's going to be bowen and another big/forward (bosh? doubt it) who'll miss this cut.
> 
> ...


Do you get the feeling the coach K compliments might be the kiss of death to players on the buble. It just seems like he's talking high about all the players who might not make the squad. CYA?


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## narek (Jul 29, 2005)

such sweet thunder said:


> Do you get the feeling the coach K compliments might be the kiss of death to players on the buble. It just seems like he's talking high about all the players who might not make the squad. CYA?


I don't think Coach K has to CYA. He has all his commercial endorsements to fall back on.


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

mizenkay said:


> i hope you guys _aren't hoping_ kirk will get cut. :naughty:


I want to see Kirk outplay Paul and gain a starting nod :banana: 

Although it makes sense (to me) to relieve Bosh over some other guys, cutting guys like him, Arenas, or even Paul would be more difficult to do simply due to politics. These guys are being groomed as the next guys to take over the league. Cutting a Joe Johnson, a Kirk Hinrich, a Shane Battier, or an Antawn Jamison would be a much "easier" decision. Although, one could contend that is why we lost the Gold.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

Also, its not like Kirk sits on his couch all summer. He'll play what, some 20 minutes per game, and then maybe a 2 hour practice? He probaly does that much working out at the berto during the summer.


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## thebullybully (Jan 26, 2005)

They have right up until showtime pretty much to decide, right? Like the night before the first game or something. There is alot of practice and coaching to be had before then, plus more exhibitions. I think the coaches have a pretty good problem and it may come down to scouting the other teams for matchups to make the final call.

There is still time for Bosh to get the mode of play, but if they had to decide today based on his play last night, I'd say he'd be out. If the last decision is between Hinrich and Arenas, I don't think you can go wrong, although I though they looked pretty good together last night for a few minutes. I don't think Bowen is an obvious cut either. He didn't score last night, but he was invited for a specific reason, and I don't think it's for the Olympics in two years.

Tough calls all around.


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## thebullybully (Jan 26, 2005)

Ron Cey said:


> When? In the NCAA tournament? He was suffering from a bad back and was forced into a slightly smaller offensive role because of it. And he hasn't been anywhere near that type of player/person since he joined the NBA.


Well that and the fact that he was one of two stars on that team throughout the season. Him and the "impenetrable Syracuse zone," and that zone was more important than him a bunch of times. I agree though that he hasn't shown that side of himself in the NBA at all. My hope lies in coaches who know how to get through to him, and his coach in particular.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

Arenas is not going to get cut. He is the only consistent outside shooter on the team. Hinrich is not going to get cut, because his defense is what we need on guys like Sarunas and Arroyo who tore us up last time. Nobody else on our roster can stop those types of players that are a lot more common in international play. 

I guess Johnson could be cut, because his all-around game is easy to overlook, but I think he is a very valuable player to have off the bench. He is a guy who can score on any spot on the floor and will be valuable against USA's kryptonite aka the zone defense. 

Bowen seems to be the consensus to be the first cut. He is just too much of an offensive liability, and his defense in international play isn't that much better than someone like Shane Battier. 

Brad Miller should be the 2nd cut. Or Chris Bosh if not him. Both of their abilities overlap, but Chris Bosh is a much better athlete and is younger. He will be more valuable when 2008 comes around. Brad Miller will be on full decline by then as well. 

There really isn't a case for keeping Brad Miller and/or Bruce Bowen over guys like Hinrich, Arenas, Johnson, Bosh, Battier, etc.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

Good point. Kirk won't be cut. We need him to guard Arroyo, Puerto Rico's in our pool. We'll probaly play Argentina in the championship, we'll need Kirk to guard Saraunas.


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

Sir Patchwork said:


> Brad Miller should be the 2nd cut. Or Chris Bosh if not him. Both of their abilities overlap, but Chris Bosh is a much better athlete and is younger. He will be more valuable when 2008 comes around. Brad Miller will be on full decline by then as well.


I'd much rather pair Brad Miller or Jamison next to Brand or Howard. Miller is the only big who is a good passer, which is important in the international style, as it is usally only one man roaming the paint instead of two in the NBA (speaking generally of course).

In NBA terms, I think Bosh is 3rd best behind Brand and Howard (don't want people to think I'm simply hating on him). I just don't see him adding a lot in the international style.


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune...,1,1865444.story?coll=sns-ap-sports-headlines






> *"It's the longest trip that I've ever taken. I'm really excited," guard Kirk Hinrich said. "It's going to be a great experience, and the only way it's going to be a truly great experience is to go out and win, so that's what we're focused on." *





> *The Americans are bringing 14 players to Asia, and will have to drop two before the start of play in Japan. Krzyzewski didn't get any help with his decisions Thursday, as 13 players scored -- the lone exception being defensive specialist Bruce Bowen.
> 
> "It's been a great experience," Hinrich said. "Everybody has come out here and they're doing a great job of giving it up for the good of the team. That's what we're going to have to do if we want to win over there."*


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

Wow, this thread took off today! Which isn't surprising, I guess. I am really enjoying this team and I'm going to root for it a lot more than I did for the last two international teams led by Karl and Brown.

DMD, the one caution I'd have in raving about how well the "two superstar + 3 role players" lineup worked is that they were playing against either tired PR starters or PR bench guys, where there's a huge drop-off in quality from the fresh starting five. When it comes to medal competition against the elite teams, there are going to be situations where we need five really good individual players on the floor, each of whom is a threat to score. And what I've liked so far is that the superstar players are going balls-out on defense -- Wade is setting a great tone, Marshmelo is digging in, etc. As long as that happens, we ought to be able to have our cake and eat it, too.

I can't imagine someone like Arenas, Johnson, or Hinrich getting cut. Each brings a unique and valuable skill, imo -- Arenas is a devastating scorer and shooter who can pressure the ball when he wants to; Johnson can play a variety of positions and is one of the team's best pure shooters, and along with Carmelo Anthony, he gives us our only mid-range threat at the guards and forwards; and Hinrich is probably the team's second-best on-the-ball defender and a capable shooter if given some good looks. 

Gun to my head, I'd cut Brad Miller (tough decision) and Bruce Bowen (easy decision).


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## jalen5 (Nov 19, 2004)

ScottMay said:


> I can't imagine someone like Arenas, Johnson, or Hinrich getting cut. Each brings a unique and valuable skill, imo -- Arenas is a devastating scorer and shooter who can pressure the ball when he wants to; Johnson can play a variety of positions and is one of the team's best pure shooters, and along with Carmelo Anthony, he gives us our only mid-range threat at the guards and forwards; and Hinrich is probably the team's second-best on-the-ball defender and a capable shooter if given some good looks.
> 
> Gun to my head, I'd cut Brad Miller (tough decision) and Bruce Bowen (easy decision).



Exactly! I agree 100%...finally you and Sir Patchwork mentioned that there was no way Arenas gets cut...I thought I was going to have to say it but yall beat me to it...Bowen is the easy cut (although it's not THAT easy)...and just as you said, the last one comes down to Brad Miller and Jamison...I really don't know who they would keep of the two...

I think it would be a terrible decision to cut Arenas, Hinrich, or Joe Johnson...outside shooting is at a premium b/c the U.S. will likely face zone after zone...if opponents play man, we'll eat em up...but playing against the zone will require consistent outside shooting. You can't cut Arenas, Hinrich, or Joe Johnson when they are 3 of your best outside shooters.

Also, I highly doubt Bosh gets cut...but at the same time, I wouldn't start him...


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## Showtyme (Jun 24, 2002)

jalen5 said:


> Exactly! I agree 100%...finally you and Sir Patchwork mentioned that there was no way Arenas gets cut...I thought I was going to have to say it but yall beat me to it...Bowen is the easy cut (although it's not THAT easy)...and just as you said, the last one comes down to Brad Miller and Jamison...I really don't know who they would keep of the two...
> 
> I think it would be a terrible decision to cut Arenas, Hinrich, or Joe Johnson...outside shooting is at a premium b/c the U.S. will likely face zone after zone...if opponents play man, we'll eat em up...but playing against the zone will require consistent outside shooting. You can't cut Arenas, Hinrich, or Joe Johnson when they are 3 of your best outside shooters.
> 
> Also, I highly doubt Bosh gets cut...but at the same time, I wouldn't start him...


I agree with the Arenas evaluation, he's like the controlled Iverson of this team. It's not so much as what he brings to the team USA chemistry (he probably won't start and I don't know that he'll be great with other great players), but it's more about the fact that his sick slashing and quickness to the rim is still what's going to tear up the international competition on most days. Find me an international player that can really seriously defend Arenas. I can't think of one off the top of my head, possibly Tony Parker has the physical tools to do it.

In order of importance, after the Wade-LeBron-Melo triumvirate:

CP (runs the team, crazy fast, he's really starting to freak me out)
Brand (too solid and too hardcore defensively)
D-Howard (too big and too freaky for anyone to keep up with)
Arenas (slasher that will tear up the international game)
B. Miller (uh, the only really big big that we've got)
Antawn (gets it done with athleticism, and he's basically Melo's clone backup)
Captain Kirk (leads by example, the defense, the glue, all that stuff that we know and love)
Bosh (i'm underrating him, maybe, but I think Dwight does everything he does but better)
JJ (utility tweener like Antawn, but why ever play him when you have LeBron)
Bowen (valuable on the court, still impresses me with his defense, but more a mentor)
Battier (a player and a good cog in a bigger picture, but not needed)


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## arcade_rida (Jun 23, 2003)

Showtyme said:


> I agree with the Arenas evaluation, he's like the controlled Iverson of this team. It's not so much as what he brings to the team USA chemistry (he probably won't start and I don't know that he'll be great with other great players), but it's more about the fact that his sick slashing and quickness to the rim is still what's going to tear up the international competition on most days. Find me an international player that can really seriously defend Arenas. I can't think of one off the top of my head, possibly Tony Parker has the physical tools to do it.
> 
> In order of importance, after the Wade-LeBron-Melo triumvirate:
> 
> ...



Woaw so Howard is a better offensive player then Bosh? And a better shooter from 12-18 ft out? On the offensive end Bosh is a good amount bettter then Howard. However, Howard is a defensive monster. If you think Howard does everything as good as Bosh or better then you are crazy.


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## DBurks2818 (May 18, 2005)

Does anyone know if players cut for the World Games are still eligible to practice with the team next summer and play in the '08 Olympics? I thought I remembered reading this was true somewhere.

If it is, then cutting Bosh or Arenas wouldn't be (as) difficult now (when their replacements Miller and Bowen are still effective and more experienced) because in '08 the former pair will be experienced veterans entering their primes while the latter will be on their way out of the league. 

I hope the roster is that flexible.


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## Hustle (Dec 17, 2003)

DBurks2818 said:


> Does anyone know if players cut for the World Games are still eligible to practice with the team next summer and play in the '08 Olympics? I thought I remembered reading this was true somewhere.
> 
> If it is, then cutting Bosh or Arenas wouldn't be (as) difficult now (when their replacements Miller and Bowen are still effective and more experienced) because in '08 the former pair will be experienced veterans entering their primes while the latter will be on their way out of the league.
> 
> I hope the roster is that flexible.


I think Kobe is expected to join the team for 08. I think they can change the roster as they (colangelo and...) please.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

Watching Bosh last night, I left with the same impression that I always do after watching him, he's not that good, and what does everyone else see that is so special in him? He's not a franchise player, he's not going to win you many games, he's overrated. Cut him, move on, and get a new bigman in there.


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## narek (Jul 29, 2005)

Free Darko was in Vegas for the game: http://freedarko.blogspot.com/2006/08/freedarko-at-hem-of-usa-basketball.html



> Brad Miller at Best Buy about five hours before the game. The guy from the hotel was taking forever to pick him up, so he had time to chat and give FreeDarko an exclusive inside look at the US game preparation, which included stocking up on DVDs for the trip to China. He hates it when you miss the last five minutes of a bootleg movie because the guy filming gets dragged out of the theater.
> 
> He told me that the team goal for the night was to win by 50. He was dead serious, too. Anybody who thinks this US team isn’t focused on smothering the competition hasn’t chatted with Brad Miller at Best Buy while he holds a FreeDarko shirt.


Plus there's this picture of Kirk:


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

Oh great. First the tattoo, now Kirk gets his arms chopped off.


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## Guest (Aug 6, 2006)

'Tis only a flesh wound...


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