# Clips take Deng?



## SecretAgentGuy (Jul 15, 2003)

So how does it shake out? I don't think you can pass on the consensus #2 man in the draft, nor do I think the CLips have a perticular need for Deng. I see the Clips working out a trade down with ATL and either make a serious move for Kobe or just resign Q, draft Livingston and call it a day.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Are you asking or hoping?


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## SecretAgentGuy (Jul 15, 2003)

Asking. Sorry.


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## MJG (Jun 29, 2003)

Clips look like they have no use for either Howard or Deng at their pick, assuming they are keeping their current team pretty much intact. They seem like a likely candidate to trade down to me, though that could be with a team looking for either Deng or Howard.


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## texan (Jul 10, 2003)

livingston or howard


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

Deng will be a Clipper.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>texan</b>!
> I think Bulls take Deng and the Clips are faced with the decision of D. Howard or S. Livingston.


lol...

Seeing that the Clips draft before the Bulls, they can draft anyone they want except Okafor.

They're not limited to that decision.

If anyone is limited, it's the Bulls.


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## texan (Jul 10, 2003)

Haha my bad. I kinda mixed that up and once i realized that i came back to fix my post but you already caught my error. Anyways, I think the Clips will still pick either Howard or Livingston even though they have a stockpile of PF's.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

Livingston is not really even on our radar right now...

We don't need Howard...

We will take Deng.

It's not physics.


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## ViciousFlogging (Sep 3, 2003)

so, since all of a sudden the Clips are in a position to nab Deng, he's the obvious #2 pick? I thought he was more Eric Williams than anything else?

interesting about-face, arenas. Weren't you pretty high on Josh Smith? If the Clips let Q walk and don't manage to nab Kobe, wouldn't you rather have Smith than Deng?

not saying you're wrong. If the Clips don't want to invest big money in Q, they'll be in the market for a 3 and Deng would look nice next to Mags.


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## bleedingorange (Feb 8, 2004)

No way the Clips take Deng - they have needed a point guard for the past 50 years and there's no way in hell they won't figure out a way to select the best one available in this draft whether it's trading down to take Jameer Nelson or Sebastian Telfair or just picking Shaun Livingston. You're crazy if you think Deng goes here...where do you think Maggette would play anyway?


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## Snicka (Dec 29, 2003)

I definitely think the #2 spot is up for bid.


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## Benny the Bull (Jul 25, 2002)

I can see Deng being a Clipper. They need help at PG, but they could take Deng since Richardson is a RFA. So I don't think it's a certainty the Bulls get Deng.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

Did I say I want Deng?

I'm saying who we're going to take...

Bulls fans all over are acting like Deng is a lock to be a Bull...

Yes Deng will be in Chicago....

Whenever the hell the Clippers come to town....


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## reHEATed (Jun 29, 2003)

LAC should trade down with the Hawks. Hawks take Dwight at #2, and LAC gets their man Gordan or Livingston at #6. They need a pg bad, and Atl wants Howard bad. It could work


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

Just a ? for you guys..

When have the Clips ever traded down??????


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## texan (Jul 10, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>arenas809</b>!
> Livingston is not really even on our radar right now...
> 
> We don't need Howard...
> ...


we will see. they could take deng but you talk about it like its already a certainty and that it is not. remember the clips arent scared to take a player at a position thats already stacked and they really could use a pg like livingston to distribute the ball to all their scorers.


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## Benny the Bull (Jul 25, 2002)

The Clippers haven't always drafted for need.

Remember, they took Miles when everyone thought they'd take Fizer in 2000, even if Miles was to be traded.


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## Chicago_Cow (Mar 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>arenas809</b>!
> Did I say I want Deng?
> 
> I'm saying who we're going to take...
> ...


Thank you for your candid remarks.

Now, go back to the Clippers board and rejoice. You're more of a Bulls hater and a Bulls fan.


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## reHEATed (Jun 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>arenas809</b>!
> Just a ? for you guys..
> 
> When have the Clips ever traded down??????


they would be smart to this year. They need a pg, and ATl will overpay to take their hometown kid. Works really well for them


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## bleedingorange (Feb 8, 2004)

Yeah toss-up there...who do you think is better now between Miles and Fizer? By the way Arenas, when have the Clippers done anything right? They will take whoever they think is the best point guard in this draft. Period.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>wadecaroneddie</b>!
> 
> they would be smart to this year. They need a pg, and ATl will overpay to take their hometown kid. Works really well for them


They don't have to...

They can get the other hometown kid at 6, Josh Smith...


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

Need or not the Clips will take Howard.

Even if they don't keep him Howard is by far the most valueable pick at #2.

They would be better off taking Howard and trading Wilcox.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>bleedingorange</b>!
> Yeah toss-up there...who do you think is better now between Miles and Fizer? By the way Arenas, when have the Clippers done anything right? They will take whoever they think is the best point guard in this draft. Period.


I'm not a Clippers have done things right advocate, I do know we'll go to Siberia to find a player (Pavel), and I love that.

Why would we not take Deng?

Does anyone want to take a stab at that one?

With Brand, Wilcox, Ely, and Kaman, what do we need Howard for?

I mean, Ely doesn't play, and he's probably headed to Charlotte, but even with Brand, Wilcox, and Kaman, where does he play?

Picking Deng just makes the most sense for us.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

Nah, they should re-sign Quentin Richardson, and trade down and take a PG.

Ben Gordon, Devin Harris and Shaun Livingston need to be the top 3 on their draft board.


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## texan (Jul 10, 2003)

umm Howard is the most valuable pick at number 2 and the clippers are always enamored with potential. also i never said that the clippers wouldnt take deng. u on the other hand made it a certainty that the clips would. do you have any inside info u wanna share with us?


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> Nah, they should re-sign Quentin Richardson, and trade down and take a PG.
> 
> Ben Gordon, Devin Harris and Shaun Livingston need to be the top 3 on their draft board.


I am reading a lot of message boards and that seems to be what the fans are saying.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

It's pretty unclear to me what they do... nor do I think it's that big of a deal. If Howard lives up to his billing, I'd be plenty happy with him, or some team will try to trade up to get him.

Could have been better, could be worse.


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## bleedingorange (Feb 8, 2004)

Arenas, I like how you leave Corey Maggette off your list. What are you thinking? He's the slash man on that team and their best defensive player. Are you really a Clips fan?


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> Need or not the Clips will take Howard.
> 
> Even if they don't keep him Howard is by far the most valueable pick at #2.
> ...


As a Clips fan, I'll defer to knowledge instead of just throwing out comments for the sake of doing so.

Look up Wilcox's stats when Brand didn't play, Wilcox could be a 15-18 and 10 player in this league, Dwight Howard is closer to Kwame Brown than he is to KG, and has done nothing yet to prove he can perform to that level. We're not going to ship Wilcox because Howard comes to town.

We don't always make the best decisions, but I see we either take Deng or trade him to a team that wants him and get something out of that deal.

Deng just makes sense, some of this other stuff I'm hearing right now doesn't make sense to me, so I'm trying to see why you guys are proposing/saying what you are proposing/saying.


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## JRose5 (May 4, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Mikedc</b>!
> It's pretty unclear to me what they do... nor do I think it's that big of a deal. If Howard lives up to his billing, I'd be plenty happy with him, or some team will try to trade up to get him.
> 
> Could have been better, could be worse.


Mike, say Deng is gone, would you take Howard and hold on to him and ship Chandler, or vice versa?


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>bleedingorange</b>!
> Arenas, I like how you leave Corey Maggette off your list. What are you thinking? He's the slash man on that team and their best defensive player. Are you really a Clips fan?


I didn't leave Mags anywhere...

There's a good possibility Q is not with us next year, Deng doesn't have to jump into the starting lineup, is there a chance it could happen? 

Maybe.

I also know though that he fills a need even if he comes off the bench.

Just because we have Mags doesn't mean we don't need anymore 3's...and do you forget Mags used to start at the 2?

Hell yes I'm a Clips fan.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>wadecaroneddie</b>!
> LAC should trade down with the Hawks. Hawks take Dwight at #2, and LAC gets their man Gordan or Livingston at #6. They need a pg bad, and Atl wants Howard bad. It could work


Yeah, I didn't think of that one.

The only other threat to take a PG before the 6th pick are the Bobcats. This means that the Clippers could still get one of Gordon, Harris or Livingston with the 6th pick.

The Hawks may even be willing to trade Boris Diaw-Riffod with the 6th pick in order to acquire the 2nd pick, and take Howard.


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## ViciousFlogging (Sep 3, 2003)

Deng fills a need, but a PG fills a more glaring one. You keep ignoring that issue, arenas. That's what most people are proposing. It's not brain surgery  

Trading down a few slots, picking up another decent pick or a player, and getting the PG they like the best makes just as much sense as picking Deng, I'd say.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

draft howard with a deal on the table. Trade down to Atlanta for Andre Iguodala and #17.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

There may very well be a trade, but if you want to look at history, when have we EVER traded down?

We have Brand, Wilcox, and Kaman, forget Deng for a second, why would we "need" Howard?

Obviously if Howard were a sure thing ok, but let's see we have Kaman a 2nd team all-rookie, and Wilcox a guy who was 20-10 when Brand was hurt, and oh ya, Elton Brand, an all-star.

What need do we have for a post player?


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## bleedingorange (Feb 8, 2004)

Ok Arenas then why would you draft a nearly identical player to Maggette (who you just re-signed to a nice contract) as a backup when you have such an obvious need at point guard? They love Telfair and Nelson and now that they have a shot at Livingston, maybe they go that route. But you don't take a backup at #2. Again, what have the Clips ever done right in the draft except trade the #2 pick for Brand? Answer that question for me.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

Other than him being from Atlanta, does anyone have another reason or info that the Hawks are enamored with Howard?

They need the players, they could do really nice at 6 and 17...

They can take another hometown kid at 6, Josh Smith, and another guy at 17...

Are they that sold on Howard?

I'm inclined to believe it, but I'm looking for some real beliefs or factual information as opposed to, oh he's from Atlanta.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

I was talking about what the bulls could do. Not the clippers.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>bleedingorange</b>!
> But you don't take a backup at #2.


I guess that eliminates Howard as a possibility then...

He's going to start over Brand or Kaman, even if Brand or Kaman gets hurt, he's going to start over Wilcox?


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>JRose5</b>!
> 
> 
> Mike, say Deng is gone, would you take Howard and hold on to him and ship Chandler, or vice versa?


I don't know yet... really depends on how the kid looks. Hell, we could, I suppose, actually have the two face off in a workout. If Howard looks like a sure thing upon close inspection, then I wouldn't hesitate to keep him. What would make the most sense to me in that case is to keep him and Tyson and drive up Tyson's value unless we get a nicer than expected offer for him. Since I think the Bulls are pretty intent on letting Jamal go, I think a sign-and-trade of him offers the opportunity to unload a guy like Davis or JYD, thus freeing up plenty of time to play Howard in addition to Curry and Chandler

I also think there will be some decent market for Howard if the Clips don't exploit it. Both Charlotte and Atlanta have been rumored to like Howard, so maybe they can be played against each other. And if the Clips do exploit it, then Deng is there as a consolation.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

Well if Deng is taken #2, in no particular order:

1. take Howard and keep him, look to trade Chandler
2. look at many offers to trade down, offering the rights to Howard
3. take Howard and keep Chandler, see how things work out

#3 concerns me the most. I just hope we wouldn't try to play Howard at the 3. He's a true 4 with extra skills, but not a 3.

This is not a bad position to be in.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

I can't see the Clips keeping Howard for any reason. They'll either pick someone else or look to move the pick.


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## JRose5 (May 4, 2003)

I'm going to have to agree with both you guys, Mike and DMD, now that I think about it, its not a bad spot to be in. We have no shot at Okafor, which is a downside, but what can you do. But we either pick up Deng, which fills our (gaping) hole at SF/SG, or if he's gone, grab Howard, who has been listed as a potential #1 pick along with Okafor. Can't complain about that.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

DMD, good post...

We're not by any means screwed but...

We bad mouthed the HS kids, do you agree with that?

Is Pax ready to take A LOT of criticism for drafting Howard?

(This is why you keep your mouth shut)

Do other GMs believe he has the cojones to do so?

IMO, no...based on what's been said...

If he tried to trade Howard would he get fair value?

Probably not, because the league knows he didn't want the kid to begin with.

(This is why you keep your mouth shut)


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## Benny the Bull (Jul 25, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Darius Miles Davis</b>!
> Well if Deng is taken #2, in no particular order:
> 
> 1. take Howard and keep him, look to trade Chandler
> ...


I don't see any chance of No. 3 happening. No way Curry, Chandler and Howard are Bulls. If we pick Howard and keep him, Chandler is traded IMO. We won't be developing 3 young bigs.

I think trade offers for an established player with Howard as bait will be pursued by Paxson. Of course it depends on how good Howard is, but it will be hard to get a Brand for Chandler type deal for Howard.

If the Clips pick Howard, I agree DMD, he'll be traded.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>arenas809</b>!
> DMD, good post...
> 
> We're not by any means screwed but...
> ...


I wish Paxson had kept his mouth shut. But in this case I don't think it hurts us if Howard is there at 3 and we look to trade him. There are enough teams that would be bidding for his services that would have to outbid each other. 

The Clips will get good offers for Howard, and they'll have to decide if they like Deng better than what is offered.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

You can't trade Chandler if no one wants him, do you really want to trade him when his value is low?

This guy is coming off the worst year of his young career, you're not going to get much for that right now.

If you're going to trade him just to trade him, well in 6 months when he's playing his *** off on someone else's team and all you have to show for it is a backup or something, you're going to want Pax's head on a sword.


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

Howard falling to #3 is the best case scenario for the Bulls because he is clearly one of the 2 most valueable picks in the draft.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>arenas809</b>!
> You can't trade Chandler if no one wants him, do you really want to trade him when his value is low?
> 
> This guy is coming off the worst year of his young career, you're not going to get much for that right now.
> ...


The Bulls would be more likely to trade Howard than to trade Chandler, I think.

Could you see the Bulls trading Howard and Erob and the #32 pick to Seattle for Rashard Lewis and maybe the 12 pick? Is that trade too slanted in the Bulls' favor?

Then the Bulls could take a reach for Jackson at 12 if Iggy is gone.


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## curry_52 (Jul 22, 2002)

All I want for Christmas: Deng landing anywhere but in Los Angeles (To play for the other team). Thats all.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Darius Miles Davis</b>!
> 
> 
> I wish Paxson had kept his mouth shut. But in this case I don't think it hurts us if Howard is there at 3 and we look to trade him. There are enough teams that would be bidding for his services that would have to outbid each other.


The question in my mind is not if you can trade him, it's would you get fair value for him?

Are there any teams THAT in love with him that would possibly even overpay for him?

Didn't our own people say the kid was closer to Kwame than KG?

I think the best thing to do well I won't blow his spot, but another poster has a mock he will be posting, and his idea is the best one I've heard so far.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>arenas809</b>!
> 
> 
> The question in my mind is not if you can trade him, it's would you get fair value for him?
> ...


Hong Kong Fooey?


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> Howard falling to #3 is the best case scenario for the Bulls because he is clearly one of the 2 most valueable picks in the draft.


this is true except for one thing ....he wont be there , there is no way the clips let that chip go so they can take a player who might never be better than maggette 

that pick is so traded to the highest bidder w/ a point guard its not funny...but on the bright for the dengers ...luol will be there but i forsee his lame workout idea to make all the scouts come and see him not to work out ....the bulls may go for childress


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## curry_52 (Jul 22, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Darius Miles Davis</b>!
> 
> 
> The Bulls would be more likely to trade Howard than to trade Chandler, I think.
> ...


I like it, nice idea. I dont know what the Sonics thing about Nick Collison, but Im sure he isnt a franchise player as Dwight Howard (Talking potential, obviously).
The Sonics seem to be somewhat in a rebuild mode and they are a liitle bit cheap. So I think this is a distinct possibility.


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## Benny the Bull (Jul 25, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Darius Miles Davis</b>!
> 
> 
> The Bulls would be more likely to trade Howard than to trade Chandler, I think.
> ...


I could see Paxson doing that. I'm not a huge Lewis fan, but he is an upgrade. I guess it just depends on how good Howard is. If Howard is a franchise talent, I keep him.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

Arenas, the Clips can take Deng but I'm not sure they will. Their big weakness is at the 1. How can they parlay the #2 pick with Howard on the board into the best 1 available. What point guards in the league that are available would you want whose teams might really want Howard? I saw the #6 and Jason Terry theory. Who else? Would the Clips trade the #2 pick in a package for Steve Francis if they don't believe Kobe is coming?


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Darius Miles Davis</b>!
> 
> 
> The Bulls would be more likely to trade Howard than to trade Chandler, I think.
> ...


Howard has more trade value than TC, that's for sure...

Not sure why Seattle does the deal you proposed...

Jackson, from what I heard, there's a very good chance he's back in San Antonio next year.

I think that's who you were referring to.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>arenas809</b>!
> 
> 
> Howard has more trade value than TC, that's for sure...
> ...


Seattle needs a good big man in the worst way.

I meant Luke Jackson.


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## Benny the Bull (Jul 25, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>arenas809</b>!
> You can't trade Chandler if no one wants him, do you really want to trade him when his value is low?
> 
> This guy is coming off the worst year of his young career, you're not going to get much for that right now.
> ...


Chandler's value is up the creek at the moment, but what about if 6 months done the track his back is still bad or even worse? What are you going to get for him then, probably less than now since he will be a RFA next summer as well, and other teams could just sign him?

If we pick Howard, Chandler will be traded. Not saying it's the right thing based on Chandler's value, but it may be best for the Bulls in the long run, so they aren't developing 3 big guys. We found it hard to develop 2, 3 would be impossible based on our track record.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Darius Miles Davis</b>!
> Arenas, the Clips can take Deng but I'm not sure they will. Their big weakness is at the 1. How can they parlay the #2 pick with Howard on the board into the best 1 available. What point guards in the league that are available would you want whose teams might really want Howard? I saw the #6 and Jason Terry theory. Who else? Would the Clips trade the #2 pick in a package for Steve Francis if they don't believe Kobe is coming?


Terry won't be a Clipper because of his contract, I don't see Sterling taking that...

If Washington offered their pick and Arenas, I think Sterling would have a hot flash...

I know as well anyone we need a PG BAD!

I don't think we need to move the #2 especially if you want a 18-20 to grab Telfair or Nelson.

I think we have the pieces to do that.

I don't see us trading down, we never have, why bet on us doing so now?


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

Dwight Howard and his religious convictions on Inside the Lines right now. ESPN.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>arenas809</b>!
> 
> 
> Terry won't be a Clipper because of his contract, I don't see Sterling taking that...
> ...


Steve Francis?


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## Weasel (Oct 18, 2003)

Arenas, what do you think about the clippers trading thier pick away for just a veteran pg?


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Weasel</b>!
> Arenas, what do you think about the clippers trading thier pick away for just a veteran pg?


It depends on who it is...

If we want to bring Baron Davis home, I'm down....


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## Weasel (Oct 18, 2003)

A healthy Baron would be nice.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Weasel</b>!
> A healthy Baron would be nice.


I'm glad we have another Clips fan here...

Just so you know Weasel, I'm a Bulls fan too, but we have a lot of good reasons to draft Deng, so I'm saying here, Deng is not a lock to be a Bull.


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## Weasel (Oct 18, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>arenas809</b>!
> 
> 
> I'm glad we have another Clips fan here...
> ...


Yeah, not many Clippers fans here, you should post more on the Clippers board.


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

For the record, we have no idea what the Clips are going to do. Nada. Nilch.

2003 drafted for need position, Chris Kaman
2002 drafted Wilcox and Ely when they already had Brand
2001 traded #2 pick for Brand
2000 drafted Miles over Fizer (need position) traded with Orlando for more players and picks (Q and Dooling)

If there's any certainty with the Clippers, its that nothing is certain. Talk about a wildcard.


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## ViciousFlogging (Sep 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>arenas809</b>!
> 
> 
> I'm glad we have another Clips fan here...
> ...


you're much closer to saying that Deng is a lock NOT to be a Bull. I don't think that's the case at this point, though you're definitely right that the Clips could use him, pending free agency decisions.

I like Deng as much as anyone here, but if Carmelo went #3 last year in a fantastic draft, Deng can certainly go #3 in this one, wouldn't you say?

Should be an interesting draft. Orlando will take Emeka, but they'll probably still be active, trying to unload their other PFs. The Clips have all kinds of options. The Bulls are kind of held hostage at #3, but at least the pick is high enough to possibly have real value on the trade market.

edit: also, we have no idea who's going to rise and fall after the combine and news of team workouts start rolling in. Emeka's back could be a serious problem, Deng could bomb at the combine (or be surprisingly athletic), and at least a couple players will either shoot up or down the charts based on individual or draft camp workouts.


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## curry_52 (Jul 22, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Weasel</b>!
> 
> 
> Yeah, not many Clippers fans here, you should post more on the Clippers board.


If you convince a poster named rlucas to post over there, you will see Arenas more often @ the Clips board.


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

No one in this thread has mentioned the physical law that the Bulls must either draft a pf or a pg. The Clippers will take Deng; anything less would be at odds with the fundamental clockwork of the universe.

It all revolves around the pf/pg:


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## ViciousFlogging (Sep 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>C.C.C.P</b>!
> No one in this thread has mentioned the physical law that the Bulls must either draft a pf or a pg. The Clippers will take Deng; anything less would be at odds with the fundamental clockwork of the universe.


Sweet merciful crap. How could I forget? :banghead:


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

The Clippers are not taking Deng.

The Clippers are not taking Howard.

There is no way Donald Sterling is going to authorize taking a player who won't contribute. He is not going to waste the money, especially #2 pick money.

The Clippers are going to take Ben Gordon at #2 or trade the pick. Nothing better in Donald Sterling's mind than to get a starting PG for 4 years on a rookie contract. This will allow him to pony up the money to keep Q in town.


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## SecretAgentGuy (Jul 15, 2003)

This is all pretty laughable. Earlier the Clips were an organization that knows how to draft, scout, and work out players. Luol Deng is a reincarnation of Eric Williams. Yet, the Clippers will now pass up on Dwight Howard, the number 1 or 2 player on all draft boards? Furthermore, the Clippers will allow Quentin Richardson to walk for nothing rather than work a sign and trade involving Jamal Crawford and QRich? Finally, Washington will work a trade to get a SF in Luol Deng when they already have Hughes, Stackhouse, and Hayes to play the SF and SG role? There's a couple contradictions at work here.

I admit there is an ever so slight chance that the Clippers take Deng, but by no means is there anywhere near enough information out there to declare as fact that Deng will be a Clipper next season. Dwight Howard will be drafted at the number 2 slot and his rights will most likely be shipped out unless someone like Bierdens suddenly starts climbing the charts. The argument that the Clips have Brand and Wilcox in place is also not a strong one. Wilcox and Ely were both drafted with Brand on board. In fact, Wilcox was a top 10 pick. How does one explain that? I know - the Clips were taking the best man on the board. Guess who's the best man on the board after Orlando drafts Okafor. Dwight Howard.

Worst case scenario we draft Howard. We move him or Tyson. Or maybe we draft Bierdens and turn that into Utah's two first rounders or we make a move with Seattle. Either way, we're in a very good position.


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## SecretAgentGuy (Jul 15, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>C.C.C.P</b>!
> No one in this thread has mentioned the physical law that the Bulls must either draft a pf or a pg. The Clippers will take Deng; anything less would be at odds with the fundamental clockwork of the universe.
> 
> It all revolves around the pf/pg:


We will use our second rounders to draft a PG and a PF in order to keep the universe balanced.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>sp00k</b>!
> This is all pretty laughable. Earlier the Clips were an organization that knows how to draft, scout, and work out players. Luol Deng is a reincarnation of Eric Williams. Yet, the Clippers will now pass up on Dwight Howard, the number 1 or 2 player on all draft boards? Furthermore, the Clippers will allow Quentin Richardson to walk for nothing rather than work a sign and trade involving Jamal Crawford and QRich? Finally, Washington will work a trade to get a SF in Luol Deng when they already have Hughes, Stackhouse, and Hayes to play the SF and SG role? There's a couple contradictions at work here.
> 
> I admit there is an ever so slight chance that the Clippers take Deng, but by no means is there anywhere near enough information out there to declare as fact that Deng will be a Clipper next season. Dwight Howard will be drafted at the number 2 slot and his rights will most likely be shipped out unless someone like Bierdens suddenly starts climbing the charts. The argument that the Clips have Brand and Wilcox in place is also not a strong one. Wilcox and Ely were both drafted with Brand on board. In fact, Wilcox was a top 10 pick. How does one explain that? I know - the Clips were taking the best man on the board. Guess who's the best man on the board after Orlando drafts Okafor. Dwight Howard.
> ...


On who's draft boards?

Nbadraft.net and draftcity's?

The Wizards are interested in Deng, I don't know what they have up their sleeve, but read more and you'd find out...

Wilcox, Brand and Kaman, there isn't one post player in this draft that would get heavy minutes before any of those guys, so to assume we'd take Dwight Howard to I don't know, sit a hell of a lot, is kind of ?

I'm a fan, I follow the team, so I know what I'm talking about when it comes to the Clips, so like I said I'm going to defer to my knowledge of the team instead of the guesses of some of you here.

There's no lock Deng will be a Clipper, but do I believe he will be a Clipper before Howard?

Yes.

Do I believe Deng is a lock for the Bulls?

No.

Do I think the Bulls are screwed?

No, not really, but we're not in as great of a position as you try to make it.

99.6% of what is suggested here is easier said than done...

Tyson can "easily" be traded, ya right...

You'll get fair value for Dwight Howard even though the rest of the league knows we didn't really want a HS kid, ya right...

And to end I love how everyone is jumping on this trade with Utah talk, when I'm the one who for the past few months was getting blasted for suggesting it.

I guess you're not "forcing an agenda" if people agree with you.

Won't be the last time this happens, let's just ride it out, and then we'll see where we sit after everything is said and done.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>arenas809</b>!
> 
> 
> You'll get fair value for Dwight Howard even though the rest of the


Did you respond to my previous counter to this Arenas? I think we'll get fair value if we have the option to trade Howard not because we might pick him but because several teams could want his rights and would have to outbid each other. What do you think?


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Darius Miles Davis</b>!
> 
> 
> Did you respond to my previous counter to this Arenas? I think we'll get fair value if we have the option to trade Howard not because we might pick him but because several teams could want his rights and would have to outbid each other. What do you think?


That's a possibilty, but we don't even know if there are that many teams drooling over Howard...

I honestly don't think there are that many...

I think there are teams that like him sure, but would they give up a lot to get him?

I'm not sure about that.


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## ViciousFlogging (Sep 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>arenas809</b>!
> 
> 
> And to end I love how everyone is jumping on this trade with Utah talk, when I'm the one who for the past few months was getting blasted for suggesting it.


to be fair, the main bone of contention with this theory was that you and rlucas had us taking guys like JR Smith and Johan Petro with the picks we trade down for. An HS player and how old is Petro? 19 or 20? That's probably even less likely than Pax taking Howard, because it's not one but TWO (or maybe even three, if we got all 3 of Utah or Boston's 1st rounders) more diapers to change, so to speak. Trading down to take two experienced (relatively speaking) players like Snyder and L. Jackson sounds like something Pax would entertain, though I still think it's unlikely. I'd say he'll either take Deng or the BPA at 3 or trade the pick, likely in a package, with the hopes of landing a good veteran or two and maybe one pick later in the round.


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## SecretAgentGuy (Jul 15, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>arenas809</b>!
> 
> 
> On who's draft boards?
> ...


Ok, then let's clarify this. Who are the 1, 2, and 3 prospects in this draft according to the majority? Who did you say Deng was likened to earlier this week? And finally, why would the Clippers, a superior organization in scouting, evaluating, and working out players, want with Deng?



> The Wizards are interested in Deng, I don't know what they have up their sleeve, but read more and you'd find out...


I'm still not sure what interest there might be for the Wiz. The only things I've read to that effect were MJG saying, "I wonder if we can get Deng" and another poster saying it's too bad Deng will be gone by the 5th pick. I've heard far more pleas for trading the pick altogether or picking up Bierdens.



> Wilcox, Brand and Kaman, there isn't one post player in this draft that would get heavy minutes before any of those guys, so to assume we'd take Dwight Howard to I don't know, sit a hell of a lot, is kind of ?
> 
> I'm a fan, I follow the team, so I know what I'm talking about when it comes to the Clips, so like I said I'm going to defer to my knowledge of the team instead of the guesses of some of you here.
> 
> ...


I agree if the Clips keep the pick, Deng would be a better fit as the glue guy than Howard will as the bench rider. But I am of the opinion that the Clips ship out this pick for a PG help. I'm not sold on Deng going there either because the Clips are setting themselves up for a serious run at Kobe. Now tell me, as a self proclaimed Clips fan, what makes more sense? Drafting a SF when you have the rights to Q, Maggs resigned, and the possibility of getting Kobe or filling a PG hole?



> Do I think the Bulls are screwed?
> 
> No, not really, but we're not in as great of a position as you try to make it.
> 
> ...


Tyson can "easily" be traded, as can Howard. A question of value comes into question, but can you say with a straight face that Caron for Tyson is impossible? Or Tyson for a mid first and second rounder isn't doable? Not to mention that Howard, <i>perhaps the highest ceiling in the draft</i>, won't draw any serious offers? 



> And to end I love how everyone is jumping on this trade with Utah talk, when I'm the one who for the past few months was getting blasted for suggesting it.
> 
> <b>I guess you're not "forcing an agenda" if people agree with you.</b>


This is another argument altogether that I would much rather not get into.



> Won't be the last time this happens, let's just ride it out, and then we'll see where we sit after everything is said and done.


It will be interesting to see how things play out.


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## Robert23 (Dec 3, 2003)

I think the Clippers will take Livingston. Their greatest need is a pg and he is the best in the draft. He has all the skills to become a top pg in the league. I don't think him going 2nd is a stretch at all to draft a future allstar pg. Unless the Clippers get a deal they can't refuse I would wager on them taking Livingston.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>sp00k</b>!
> Ok, then let's clarify this. Who are the 1, 2, and 3 prospects in this draft according to the majority? Who did you say Deng was likened to earlier this week? And finally, why would the Clippers, a superior organization in scouting, evaluating, and working out players, want with Deng?


Personally I don't like Deng, but he makes sense as the pick for the Clips.

Is he a savior that the Bulls want him to be?

No.

We don't even need him to be a savior for us, does he have to come in and start next year?

Maybe on the Bulls, but that's not the case with every team in the league.

As far as the Clips being superior on scouting, well look, if you can find a talent in Siberia, which is where we found Pavel, that deserves some respect.

A hell of a lot more than guys who only look for players within the Cook County limits.




> Originally posted by <b>sp00k</b>!
> I'm still not sure what interest there might be for the Wiz. The only things I've read to that effect were MJG saying, "I wonder if we can get Deng" and another poster saying it's too bad Deng will be gone by the 5th pick. I've heard far more pleas for trading the pick altogether or picking up Bierdens.


According to league sources, the Wizards have their eye on Duke small forward Luol Deng, a versatile 6-8 freshman, provided they don't get one of the top two picks. Grunfeld said yesterday he has a "take the best player available" philosophy and doesn't like selecting a player to fill a specific need. He believes the Wizards have good depth and don't have any glaring weaknesses at any one position."



> Originally posted by <b>sp00k</b>!
> I agree if the Clips keep the pick, Deng would be a better fit as the glue guy than Howard will as the bench rider. But I am of the opinion that the Clips ship out this pick for a PG help. I'm not sold on Deng going there either because the Clips are setting themselves up for a serious run at Kobe. Now tell me, as a self proclaimed Clips fan, what makes more sense? Drafting a SF when you have the rights to Q, Maggs resigned, and the possibility of getting Kobe or filling a PG hole?


As a Clips fan I'm not holding my breath on Kobe, in fact, I'm pretty sure Kobe is with the Lakers next season, I'd bet more money on that.

Q might get a ton of money thrown at him, and yes there's a chance Sterling would let him walk.

If you knew anything about the Clips, you'd know Mags used to be the starting 2 and Q came off the bench.




> Originally posted by <b>sp00k</b>!
> Tyson can "easily" be traded, as can Howard. A question of value comes into question, but can you say with a straight face that Caron for Tyson is impossible? Or Tyson for a mid first and second rounder isn't doable? Not to mention that Howard, <i>perhaps the highest ceiling in the draft</i>, won't draw any serious offers?


Ya I can say with a straight face that won't happen...

My question to you is why would Miami trade Caron?

Because countless Bulls fans want them to?

You're trying to trade a guy who's coming off the worst year of his career and has been injured at his lowest value point.

You're expecting too much RIGHT NOW.



> Originally posted by <b>sp00k</b>!
> It will be interesting to see how things play out.


Yep.


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## Robert23 (Dec 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>arenas809</b>!
> 
> Is he a savior that the Bulls want him to be?
> 
> No.


I don't think I've read anywhere saying he is going to be the Bulls savior. I think that is still Eddy Currys job. We just need a good SF to compliment our team and Deng alot of people think he is the best available.




> According to league sources, the Wizards have their eye on Duke small forward Luol Deng, a versatile 6-8 freshman, provided they don't get one of the top two picks. Grunfeld said yesterday he has a "take the best player available" philosophy and doesn't like selecting a player to fill a specific need. He believes the Wizards have good depth and don't have any glaring weaknesses at any one position."


I don't know to me that doesn't sound like a resounding endorsement for them trading up to get Deng. To trade up to the 2nd pick would be costly and I don't see them why they would do it when they don't have a strong reason too. It sounds like they are content with the pick they get and they will just pick the best guy they can.





> Ya I can say with a straight face that won't happen...
> 
> My question to you is why would Miami trade Caron?
> 
> ...


I don't think he meant a straight up Caron for Chandler. I could be wrong though. Also it would be easy to trade Chandler. There would be alot of teams willing to take Chandler off our hands. The real question is would we get what we think he is worth. I doubt it at this point.


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## giusd (Apr 17, 2003)

It seems to me there are three blue chip players and we will get one if it is not Deng then it is Howard. Also, is howard really a PF or more like KG who can also play some SF. Didn't howard play PG before he jumped to 6'10". 

How could anyone know what the clippers will do. They have the 2nd best fans in the NBA but sterling is NUTS. All he cares about is money and women. He let Odom go and how stupid was that. One thing is for sure they need a PG bad.

I would love to see the bulls trade down with Alt and take Biedirns and the best athletic, d minded SG at 16. But maybe Alt has something else in mind.

I have no idea about Deng NBA game but i think he is coming to the bulls and if so i hope he is as good as everyone is saying.

david


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## Machinehead (Jun 12, 2002)

One thing you do know the Clippers will do and that is not shell out big money for a free agent point guard 

They will deal #2 for #6 and #17 ( and probably one of Atlanta's 3 x second rounders

And whoever is there out of Gordon and Livingston .. that's who they take

Of course they just may take Livingston at #2 if they like him enough 

But I can see Atlanta having a major chubby for Dwight Howard

Its as certain as Sheed choking on the free throw line in Game 7 with time running out


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## Machinehead (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>giusd</b>!
> It seems to me there are three blue chip players and we will get one if it is not Deng then it is Howard. Also, is howard really a PF or more like KG who can also play some SF. Didn't howard play PG before he jumped to 6'10".
> 
> How could anyone know what the clippers will do. They have the 2nd best fans in the NBA but sterling is NUTS. All he cares about is money and women. He let Odom go and how stupid was that. One thing is for sure they need a PG bad.
> ...


Actually if the Clippers do take Deng that gives us Howard who we deal with ERob and Jeffries for #6 and #17

We take Biedrins at #6 for Utah for Harpring + #16 and #21

We package Atlanta's #17 and #32 to Portland for #13

Out of our #3 pick and #32 pick we shed $7.6M in salary and add Matt Harpring and #13, #16 and #21 where we take :

Luke Jackson, Kirk Snyder and Kris Humphries 

Keep Jamal Crawford at $5.5M

Take Ha Seung Jin at #39


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## dkg1 (May 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>arenas809</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I still think Wade is much better off at the two as opposed to the one. With Wade at 2 and Odom at 3, that leaves Butler coming off of the bench with a viable pg in the lineup. So I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that the Heat would trade Butler for Tyson. Butler isn't exactly coming off of a career year himself and there are still injury concerns about him too. 

Another thing to consider is that Miami's roster is not exactly filled with solid frontcourt players, adding a 7 foot tall 4 who can play some 5 would be a good move. I think Miami would be an ideal fit for Tyson. They have plenty of scoring, all he would be asked to do is play D and rebound.


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## jimmy (Aug 20, 2002)

I'm not that high on Deng but if he was available at 3, the Bulls should take him.

If he's not then go with F. Jerzey plan. Trade the 3 and someone like Erob or JYD to Atlanta for the 6 and 17. 

They get Howard, we get a chance to draft Jackson and still have the 6th pick to make a trade or actually draft someone else.


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## dkg1 (May 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>F.Jerzy</b>!
> 
> 
> Actually if the Clippers do take Deng that gives us Howard who we deal with ERob and Jeffries for #6 and #17
> ...


Is there anybody on the Atlanta roster we would want thrown into the deal instead of the #17 pick? I've been thinking trade with Atlanta as well, especially if Howard is there. I think they might be willing to overpay for a shot at their local hero.


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## giusd (Apr 17, 2003)

I think trading the number 3 (Howard) for 6 and 17 is a great idea as long as we can get Biedirns and with 17 a SG like Synder or Moyna. However, rlucas says he will be gone by 6 and i think he may be right. 

david


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

I wouldn't be a bit surprised to see the Clippers take Andriuskevicius or Biedrins myself. I mean, they do have need for a pg but they also could use a true center, right? all of the big guys they have right now strike me more as power forwards.

Also, don't be shocked if they pick Livingston...this kid has scary talent. It will be a while for him to physically mature but I wouldn't be surprised if Sterling took a chance on him because he plays the exact sort of ball that will draw in spectators.


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## Philo (Feb 13, 2003)

The Bulls will receive many offers for Chandler this offseason. While most of the offers will be from GM's who know that this will be the last chance to get Chandler cheaply, a couple teams may be willing to part with a decent prospect.


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## Lizzy (May 28, 2002)

I'm not reading this whole thread b/c it's too long and I'm impatient?

Why do the Clips want Deng so badly? I mean....I could care less. They can have him. But don't they need a pg?


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Lizzy</b>!
> I'm not reading this whole thread b/c it's too long and I'm impatient?
> 
> Why do the Clips want Deng so badly? I mean....I could care less. They can have him. But don't they need a pg?


Yes, the Clips desperately need a pg. They could try for one in free agency, but I think their best bet is to trade the pick to a team in a package for a veteran point guard or trade down for more picks this year.


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## fl_flash (Aug 19, 2002)

I hardly think that Deng is a lock to go to the Clips. I do believe that both the Clips and Bulls are going to get a lot of offers for the #2 and #3 slots. Neither team really needs Howard but he would probably fetch a pretty good price on the open market. The Clips need a PG first and foremost. They could parlay that #2 pick into a PG and then some. Okafor is exactly what Orlando needs - an interior defensive prescence. I really don't see the magic picking anybody else unless Okafors back problems are more severe than has been let on or Howard simply knocks their socks off. I also can't envision the Magic moving the pick. It's just too good of a fit.

One things for sure, over the next 4 weeks, there's gonna be a helluva lot of rumors and even more misinformation being slung around by GM's and writers all across the country. Better get your overcoat and galoshes on - There's gonna be all sorts of crap flying around here soon!


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

I wonder if the Clips could trade their pick to Atlanta for Jason Terry and their #6 pick to LA for the #2 and change?


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## Machinehead (Jun 12, 2002)

I think Donald Sterling would rather have his testicles exfoliated with a cheese grater than take on Jason Terry's contract


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## fl_flash (Aug 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>F.Jerzy</b>!
> I think Donald Sterling would rather have his testicles exfoliated with a cheese grater than take on Jason Terry's contract


I dunno... I hear the Donald is into some pretty kinky stuff!


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