# Is Gilbert Arenas A Top-5 Point Guard In The NBA?



## Basel

This is obviously assuming he's going to remain healthy this season, but currently, is he a top-5 point guard? You've got Chris Paul & Deron Williams who are the two best PGs in the league right now. He's not better than either of them. Is he better than Tony Parker? Steve Nash? Rajon Rondo? Chauncey Billups? What do you guys think?


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## f22egl

If he's healthy, he's a top 5 point guard. But that's a big if.


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## King Joseus

Paul
Deron
Parker
Chauncey

Eh. Sure, why not? Too soon for me to put Rose up there without being a homer...


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## Luke

Paul/Deron/Parker/Chauncey are all better than him, it's not really a debate. He's on the level of the Harris' and Rose's of the league right now, but I fully expect Rose to overtake him next year.


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## ATLien

People have short term memories. If a healthy Arenas starts to go on a tear, a bunch of posts coplimenting Arenas game will begin to pop up around BBF.


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## Chan Ho Nam

i consider Arenas a SG but yes, if he returns to his former self, he is a top 10 force in the league


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## byrondarnell66

Not sure about top 5 yet. Just hoping hes stays healthy and help this team win ballgames next season. Cris and Deron are better PG's overall not sure if they are betters players overall (maybe Paul) than Arens (when healthy) though. Time will tell

One things for sure Arenss is keeping quite these days and being more focus on his game.


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## BlakeJesus

I do think that Billups is getting a little overrated because of how he turned around the Nuggets last year, and I think that people are starting to underrated Arenas because of his inability to stay healthy.

I would have to say that I believe Arenas is easily a top 5 PG, but that is completely predicated on his health. You can't be a top 5 PG if you can't stay ont he court.


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## Kidd

If he's healthy he's definitely a top 5 PG.


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## Damian Necronamous

Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Tony Parker, Chauncey Billups, Steve Nash

Those are my top 5 right now. And I'd say, yes, IF Arenas is healthy, he's good enough to bump Nash or Billups from that list.


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## f22egl

While Arenas only played 2 games last season, he did record 20 assists and committed only 1 turnover in 63 minutes. With improved decision making, it's possible that he can be an even better player than he was in the 2007 season. Hopefully, the extended rest last season will allow for him to remain healthy; previously he had rushed back too soon with his previous comebacks. The biggest questions are whether he'll be able to remain healthy throughout the season and will he regain his quickness/explosiveness that allowed him to attack the basket. Of course, playing some defense wouldn't hurt either.


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## Damian Necronamous

Saunders says Arenas is healthy

Flip seems to be satisfied by Gil's progress.


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## HB

When healthy, he's a top 2, top 3 PG


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## RollWithEm

I am pretty much in agreement with the other posters. I think a healthy Arenas is a second tier NBA PG, which puts him somewhere in the top 8. In no particular order within tiers, I see them like this:

*Tier 1*
Chris Paul 
Deron Williams

*Tier 2*
Billups
Rondo
Rose
Nash
Parker
Arenas

*Tier 3*
Kidd
Calderon
Baron
Harris
Mo Williams
Jameer


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## HB

No way, shape or form that Rondo is better than Harris.


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## RollWithEm

HB said:


> No way, shape or form that Rondo is better than Harris.


I cannot think of a single way (other than a more consistent outside shot) that Harris is better than Rondo. Rondo is just as fast, quicker, stronger, better defensively, a better passer, and has a higher basketball IQ.


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## HB

No absolutely not. I have said it numerous times on this board, the closest thing to Devin in the game is Tony Parker. I rank them pretty much in the same category. Very similar skill set. Devin is a better scorer, better defender, passing is a wash, and Rondo is actually not quicker than Devin (who happens to be in the guiness book of world records as the fastest player in the league). The one thing Rondo has on Devin is durability, then again, Devin pretty much makes a living in the paint. There's no point guard as far as I am concerned that draws fouls better.

Lol ask ehmunro an avid Celts fan what he thinks of Rondo's supposedly high basketball IQ, it sure wasn't in place when he was trying to jeopardize their chances last year by being a punk.

People get carried away with wins and elevate players to ridiculous heights. If Harris was on the Celts, would they not win championships, now flip Rondo to the Nets and tell me how that team doesnt lose more games?


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## RollWithEm

HB said:


> Devin is a better scorer,


This is true.



> better defender,


This is false.



> passing is a wash,


Rondo is easily better.



> and Rondo is actually not quicker than Devin (who is in the guiness book of world records as the fastest player in the league).


I did not say Rondo was "faster" than Devin north-to-south. Rondo is, however, quicker laterally and has faster hands than does Harris.



> If Harris was on the Celts, would they not win championships,


I definitely don't think they would've won the title with Harris instead of Rondo. Harris needs to score to be effective. Rondo does not.



> now flip Rondo to the Nets and tell me how that team doesnt lose more games?


That would probably be a wash. The Nets needed a better scorer (Harris) last year more than they needed a better defender and distributor (Rondo). The win total probably wouldn't have changed much if at all between the two.


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## HB

Devin Harris was the starting point guard on a 60 plus win team. Dirk gets most of his points of isos, Terry's a scoring point, Howard likes to score too. So yes Devin didnt need to dominate the ball to be effective in that system. I dont recall him needing to score being a problem. Rondo on the other hand, has periods where he gets really tentative with the ball. They need him to score, but he's offensively inept. Harris doesn't have the same problem. 

Devin was known as a pretty good on the ball defender with Dallas, since his role with the Nets improved, his defense took a hit. Playing with 3 HOF players (the Celts that is), he doesnt need to score much, his defense instantly improves. Rondo is not a better defender, matter of fact thats a fallacy. The guy gambles on defense, he's not that strong, his best defense is rebounding and gambling for steals.

I can even give you Rondo being a better passer but again I doubt it. He plays with better teammates, drive and dish is pretty much any point guard's bread and butter. Both can do it. Rondo is more creative, but again his role is different on that team as compared to Devin' with the Nets. Do you realize Devin had one of the highest PER in the game last year?

As for your final statement, stop overrating Rondo. He's an adequate defender not a great defender. He's a decent passer not a great passer.


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## Dre

Tony Parker isn't better than a healthy Gilbert, and by the end of the season every poster outside of San Antonio will concede that. I don't think he can jump into the Paul/Deron conversation, but he can be the gateway between the two tiers.


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## Luke

Dre™ said:


> Tony Parker isn't better than a healthy Gilbert, and by the end of the season every poster outside of San Antonio will concede that. I don't think he can jump into the Paul/Deron conversation, but he can be the gateway between the two tiers.


You think that Gilbert will be back to how he used to be after two major knee surgeries and playing what? 20 games over the last two years. I think not.


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## Dre

I think he'll actually be a better player, because living in DC I actually saw the games when he returned and I saw how pass-first he had become. 

I'm not naive, I understand a good deal of that was based on him not having his knee at it's full capacity, but I believe he's going to come back and coalesce a more facilitation oriented game with his scoring ability and be a more effective player.


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## Luke

Dre™ said:


> I think he'll actually be a better player, because living in DC I actually saw the games when he returned and I saw how pass-first he had become.
> 
> I'm not naive, I understand a good deal of that was based on him not having his knee at it's full capacity, but I believe he's going to come back and coalesce a more facilitation oriented game with his scoring ability and be a more effective player.


Maybe he has become more pass first, but he's not going to magically going to turn into a 9+ assist kind of guy, he's just not that type of player. He may become a better passer, but he won't be elite. And as for scoring, he's not going to have near the explosiveness to get to the rim after his surgeries, so players will be able to play closer up on him and make him shoot tough jumpers all day, he's already an inefficient player, this is not a good thing.

I still think that he'll be a pretty good player, but I see him top five at absolute best.


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## Dre

I don't believe enough of his explosiveness will be gone to the point where he won't be able to get into the lane any time he wants against most matchups. I've seen him get to the rack from the top of the lane in two steps, I don't think he's suddenly going to devolve into Derek Fisher.

And no, he's not a good enough passer to be a guy that averages more than 7 a season, but it's not about numbers, it's about the individual games he participates in. Factor in his still improving passing with his ability as a scorer and he's a second tier threat from the PG position.


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## R-Star

Depends on how you rate a PG. I want my PG to be a distributor, not the leagues biggest chucker.

Arenas is a chucker, not a PG.


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## f22egl

It will be interesting to see Gilbert Arenas's evolution in the point guard position. He can defer more on the offensive end with scoring options like Butler, Jamison, Young, Foye, Miller, Haywood, Blatche, Stevenson, etc.


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## f22egl

Andre Iguodala tweet on Arenas



> Runs at attack were pretty good today, gilbert arenas is back like he left his black card!


http://twitter.com/AI9/status/3272119350


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## f22egl

BTW, Arenas is working with Tim Grover, Michael Jordan's trainer who also worked with Dwayne Wade last year before his breakout season. Arenas told Saunders that he's averaging 44 ppg in pro-am pickup games. Saunders also said Arenas has gone from squatting just 80 pounds to 315 pounds and it looks like he's regained his quickness.


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## RollWithEm

HB said:


> Devin Harris was the starting point guard on a 60 plus win team. Dirk gets most of his points of isos, Terry's a scoring point, Howard likes to score too. So yes Devin didnt need to dominate the ball to be effective in that system. I dont recall him needing to score being a problem. Rondo on the other hand, has periods where he gets really tentative with the ball. They need him to score, but he's offensively inept. Harris doesn't have the same problem.
> 
> Devin was known as a pretty good on the ball defender with Dallas, since his role with the Nets improved, his defense took a hit. Playing with 3 HOF players (the Celts that is), he doesnt need to score much, his defense instantly improves. Rondo is not a better defender, matter of fact thats a fallacy. The guy gambles on defense, he's not that strong, his best defense is rebounding and gambling for steals.
> 
> I can even give you Rondo being a better passer but again I doubt it. He plays with better teammates, drive and dish is pretty much any point guard's bread and butter. Both can do it. Rondo is more creative, but again his role is different on that team as compared to Devin' with the Nets. Do you realize Devin had one of the highest PER in the game last year?
> 
> As for your final statement, stop overrating Rondo. He's an adequate defender not a great defender. He's a decent passer not a great passer.


I think this argument has merit, but this is not really the place for it. Check the player comparison board. I'll set up a thread.


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## byrondarnell66

R-Star said:


> Depends on how you rate a PG. I want my PG to be a distributor, not the leagues biggest chucker.
> 
> Arenas is a chucker, not a PG.


So what that makes him the worst PG in the league I guess, we get it man you don't like Arenas. :sarcasm:


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## Dre

I can't wait until he gets oncourt and shuts these people up...people who didn't see him make his return and rack up a double double at half speed, in limited minutes.


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## Basel

I'm really looking forward to seeing him on the court again as well. I think he's going to show that when healthy, he's still one of the best players in the league, not just one of the best point guards.


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## Dre

And I've heard from more than one person (including him) that he feels and looks 100%, so whatever's left in his knee at this point, he has all of it.


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## f22egl

LeBron James commenting on Gilbert Arenas's health.



> With LeBron James in town this weekend to promote the release of his new film, "More Than a Game," I had to ask the MVP how Arenas looked during some star-studded scrimmages this week in Chicago, where Arenas, James, Dwyane Wade, Tracy McGrady, Jermaine O'Neal, Andre Iguodala and Quentin Richardson are said to have played.
> 
> *"He looks good,"* James said on Friday. "He looks good."
> 
> Is he all the way back?
> 
> "He's almost back," said James, who was in Chicago on the first stop of his promotional tour. "*He's about, probably, in the high 90s.* I'll say that. He's good. He's good. He's good. He should be happy that he's back on track. *No limping, no nothing. We played a lot of games, too.* Worked out. It was good."


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## R-Star

byrondarnell66 said:


> So what that makes him the worst PG in the league I guess, we get it man you don't like Arenas. :sarcasm:


Arenas is one of the best pure scorers in the league. What he is not is one of the best PG's and one of the worst team players.

-edit- Since he is such a great scorer, he is one of the top PG's I guess. Just not on the distributor end.


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## Dre

How much of him did you see last season?


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## R-Star

Dre™ said:


> How much of him did you see last season?


What kind of a question is that? What does it matter? He played two ****ing games.


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## Dre

Two ****ing games in which he showed a(n admittedly surprising) willingness to distribute the ball. He was looking to set up more than he was even looking to score.

Sure it's limited play, but it shows me he's willing and able to have an all-star caliber impact even while passing more.


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## R-Star

Dre™ said:


> Two ****ing games in which he showed a(n admittedly surprising) willingness to distribute the ball. He was looking to set up more than he was even looking to score.
> 
> Sure it's limited play, but it shows me he's willing and able to have an all-star caliber impact even while passing more.


If that is a preview of what we can expect from him, that would be great. I'll withhold my judgment though. Gilbert has proven to be a stat whore on the court, and a _look at me! look at me!_ type of player off the court. 

I'd be happy if I were wrong on this, I used to love Gil back in his Arizona days.


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## Dre

I think it is, because before he jumped into the lineup he admitted there were a lot of talented players on the roster and his mind was set on being primarily a distributor.

He's what, 27? If he wasn't injured, he could've had that epiphany at the beginning of last year and had a 27/7 type of year. He's not a finished product. And in a sense losing some of that explosiveness helps get him just that much more into being a distributor.


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## R-Star

Dre™ said:


> I think it is, because before he jumped into the lineup he admitted there were a lot of talented players on the roster and his mind was set on being primarily a distributor.
> 
> He's what, 27? If he wasn't injured, he could've had that epiphany at the beginning of last year and had a 27/7 type of year. He's not a finished product. And in a sense losing some of that explosiveness helps get him just that much more into being a distributor.


Lets hope you're right. The league could use another multi talented distributor instead of another stat sheet chucker.


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## byrondarnell66

R-Star said:


> If that is a preview of what we can expect from him, that would be great. I'll withhold my judgment though. Gilbert has proven to be a stat whore on the court, and a _look at me! look at me!_ type of player off the court.
> 
> I'd be happy if I were wrong on this, I used to love Gil back in his Arizona days.


Yes hes a stat whore on the court, just like anybody else in the NBA (who wouldnt want to be), I think your perspective reflects more on the off court stuff about him (past media attention hype). Yes Gil gets on my nerves too (used to) but I think he has settled down some (atleast lately) from the media, but theres no denying he can ball at the top level (when healthy) talking or no talking. Time will tell for Arenas if hes a top player or not, we will just have to wait and see.


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## Dre

He's not a Lebron, Wade or Kobe, but he can compete with anyone beyond that.


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## f22egl

Gilbert Arenas made a surprise appearance at Barry Farms, a local DC playground. Michael Lee, Washington Posts Wizards insider was there and commented that Arenas look more explosive, was able to attack the rim at will but wasn't as explosive as he was pre-April 2007...yet.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/wizardsinsider/2009/08/arenas_makes_surprise_appearan.html#more


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## Basel

Wizards fans have to be excited hearing all this news about Agent Zero. I really hope he stays healthy - I think he's going to have a great year.


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## Luke

Dre™ said:


> He's not a Lebron, Wade or Kobe, but he can compete with anyone beyond that.


He's not on the same level as Chris Paul, Tim Duncan, Deron Williams, Dwight Howard ect.


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## Dre

He's capable of dropping 50 any night, and if he becomes a little more unselfish he'll be right up there. With experience running a talented offense, he'd be a Chauncey Billups that could score 50.


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## Chan Ho Nam

Dre™ said:


> He's capable of dropping 50 any night, and if he becomes a little more unselfish he'll be right up there. With experience running a talented offense, *he'd be a Chauncey Billups that could score 50*.


drooooooolzzzzzz


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## Luke

Dre™ said:


> He's capable of dropping 50 any night, and if he becomes a little more unselfish he'll be right up there. With experience running a talented offense, he'd be a Chauncey Billups that could score 50.


Except for the defense, the leadership, and basically all of the other intangibles that make Chauncey Billups well, Chauncey Billups.


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## Dre

I guess you didn't respect the "with experience" portion of my argument did you. 

Defense I'll give you, but Chauncey was a steady progression in terms of "leadership" and "intangibles". I don't see why Arenas, as talented as he is, is somehow devoid (in your mind) of the capacity needed to attain those things.


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## Chan Ho Nam

arenas has all the physical talent to raise his defense
he has the motivation, it's there
he just needs to get into the habit of looking to make plays more often


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## Luke

chairman5 said:


> arenas has all the physical talent to raise his defense
> he has the motivation, it's there
> he just needs to get into the habit of looking to make plays more often


If he has the physical ability aswell as the motivation then why has he been a sub par defender his entire career?


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## Chan Ho Nam

he only focuses on half the game, even Kobe takes a lot of down time on the defensive end


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## Luke

chairman5 said:


> he only focuses on half the game, even Kobe takes a lot of down time on the defensive end


So he lacks the motivation to play both sides of the court, you just contradicted yourself.


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## f22egl

The problem with Arenas is that he's too much of a ball watcher. He leaves his man far too much to gamble for steals. But it's not like Arenas and EJ clashed on this issue. Eddie Jordan's defense relied upon defenders gambling for steals. Because of this philosophy guys like Larry Hughes and Caron Butler get a large amount of steals but the Wizards were among the worst defensively.

When Arenas came back from his injury, he looked above average defensively with Randy Ayers at the helm; or that could have just been that Antonio Daniels was getting run down and looked terrible defensively. It will be interesting to see if Flip Saunders coaching can make Arenas a better defender.


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## HB

Chauncey is the most overrated point guard, maybe player in all of basketball.


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## jericho

HB said:


> Chauncey is the most overrated point guard, maybe player in all of basketball.


Honestly, he's both overrated and underrated on these boards. At this point he's not a player you build a franchise around (and I'm not sure he ever has been, for that matter). He is a terrific complementary piece whose value under the right conditions goes far beyond quantitative stats. Put him in the category of legitimate starters at PG who defend well, lead in the locker room, look to set up teammates before looking for their own shot, and can stretch the defense and back down defenders. It's a pretty small category, even if he's not destined for the Hall of Fame. I'd take him over Tony Parker, but I can understand if others wouldn't.


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## Dre

Yeah, the thing about Chauncey is people rarely evaluate him correctly, he's like Brandon Roy in that regard. 

They play so within themselves that their limitations aren't apparent until they face superior competition.

And regarding Arenas' defense, it's within him to become at least a solid defender, he's not a physically inferior player, and someone with ego enough to try to take your heart out offensively should be able to take his physical abilities on the other side of the court with him. I don't think he'll ever be a great overall defender, but there's a point where I believe he won't be a weakness, it comes with experience, much like it did with Dirk.


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