# Why Shane Battier fits in so well



## jworth (Feb 17, 2006)

We've heard the doubts and concerns that fans and critics have voiced. By trading away a ball of potential in Rudy Gay, there's plenty of reason to understand why many would take a questionable approach. But if you look closely, Shane Battier really does fit the Rockets like a glove.

The cynics say, "He's too small to play power forward where he'll be overmatched by the likes of Tim Duncan, Dirk, and KG." But those doubters forget that just a few, short months ago the Phoenix Suns reached the Western Conference Finals being led in the post by a versatile, 6-foot-9 Boris Diaw. And the critics must not remember that the San Antonio Spurs matched up best against Dallas when they played the likes of Robert Horry and Bruce Bowen next to Duncan as the team's second biggest player on the floor.

The pace of the NBA has changed. You don't need a Karl Malone or Charles Barkley at power forward if you already have a Yao Ming or Tim Duncan down low. In order to be effective against zone defenses and out on the break, teams need quick players who can shoot from anywhere. Battier can do that, and do it with the best of the league's power forwards. 

In today's game you may as well throw traditional lineups out the window. Having a pure power forward, pure small forward, pure shooting guard, pure point guard, and pure center all on the floor together is by no means a necessity. In the NBA Finals, for example, there were frequent stretches where the Heat would go with a lineup of JWill, Payton, Wade, Posey, and a big man while Dallas would often have three guards on the floor at the same time while playing Josh Howard at power forward. 

In five NBA seasons, Battier has been the signature of hard work and hustle, and his jumper has proven to be one of the more efficient in the NBA with averages of 45 percent from the field and 38 percent from behind the arc.

To many, he's nothing but an average role player who will give you 10 and 5, but if you actually look closely, there's little doubt that Battier is a great fit with the Rockets.


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## ravor44 (Feb 26, 2005)

Not only that, Battier also fits well in the Rockets because if the Rockets would have kept Gay, then Gay couldn't fit with the Rockets coz you got a similar player in T-Mac...so the Rockets got a nice compensation for Gay...


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## kisstherim (Jul 15, 2004)

Agreed! Great post :clap:


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## Gotham2krazy (Nov 22, 2005)

Well Battier's good because if we go with a lineup of Yao, Battier, McGrady, Head, Alston, then Battier can stretch the defense and break a 2-3 zone, if they decide to use a 3-2 zone just pop the ball back into Yao and he'll take care of it. If we go with a lineup of Yao, Howard, Battier, McGrady, Alston, we could play inside out and have Yao constantly kick the ball out to the perimeter players, they'll all be there for the 3. It also let's McGrady play the 2 again, which is something that'll be worthwhile and exciting, hopefully he'll do it like he used to in Orlando.


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## crazyfan (Dec 9, 2005)

jworth said:


> We've heard the doubts and concerns that fans and critics have voiced. By trading away a ball of potential in Rudy Gay, there's plenty of reason to understand why many would take a questionable approach. But if you look closely, Shane Battier really does fit the Rockets like a glove.
> 
> The cynics say, "He's too small to play power forward where he'll be overmatched by the likes of Tim Duncan, Dirk, and KG." But those doubters forget that just a few, short months ago the Phoenix Suns reached the Western Conference Finals being led in the post by a versatile, 6-foot-9 Boris Diaw. And the critics must not remember that the San Antonio Spurs matched up best against Dallas when they played the likes of Robert Horry and Bruce Bowen next to Duncan as the team's second biggest player on the floor.
> 
> ...




Dallas and Miami were trying to match each other up otherwise Josh Howard would never have played PF.
No team,apart from Phoenix, would be willing to play a "Battier" sort player at PF full time and he shouldnt.

Battier could fit in at PF for certain games against certain teams in certain situations to match up against fast perimeter minded PFs but against guys who are traditional pure PF, someone like Howard has to got to defend him.

But i cant deny that Battier fits very well into the houston system. He will spread the floor and while playing PF can take on slow forwards.

I'm sure gay can play PF too though.


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## jworth (Feb 17, 2006)

The thing is, Juwon Howard isn't really that much bigger than Battier and it would be hard to argue that Howard is the better defender of the two, even against big power forwards. Battier is 6-foot-8 and 220 pounds while Howard is 6-foot-9 and 230. And Battier averaged 1.41 blocks and 1.14 steals last season while Howard only put up .1 blocks and .61 steals. So even though Howard seems to be more of a pure power forward and has a bit more size, Battier has shown that he gets the job done so much better on the defensive end regardless of his opponent.


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## tone wone (Jan 30, 2003)

ravor44 said:


> Not only that, Battier also fits well in the Rockets because if the Rockets would have kept Gay, then Gay couldn't fit with the Rockets coz you got a similar player in T-Mac...so the Rockets got a nice compensation for Gay...


are you being sarcastic?

If not you might end up in someones sig.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

I don't think anyone doubts that Battier is an excellent fit as a complimentary player. It just seems like the price was way too high.

But yes, if one ignores how we got here, Houston looks better than last year with Battier in the fold. He plays defense and can shoot the ball. Two major needs to compliment McGrady and Yao.


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## jworth (Feb 17, 2006)

The price will only have been too high if Gay explodes for a great rookie season.


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## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

Richard Jefferson, Rashard Lewis, Bostjan Nachbar...

The Rockets are terrible at drafting and there's no way you can put a positive spin on this. Role players like Battier are a dime a dozen. You get them with MLE's. Superstars take 40+ loss seasons where you miss the playoffs and get in a high enough position to draft them. Or you make a trade with a senile old cowboy down in H-town...

And if Gay doesn't turn out to be a superstar then so what? Why not take the risk? He's more athletic and younger than Battier.


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## crazyfan (Dec 9, 2005)

jworth said:


> The thing is, Juwon Howard isn't really that much bigger than Battier and it would be hard to argue that Howard is the better defender of the two, even against big power forwards. Battier is 6-foot-8 and 220 pounds while Howard is 6-foot-9 and 230. And Battier averaged 1.41 blocks and 1.14 steals last season while Howard only put up .1 blocks and .61 steals. So even though Howard seems to be more of a pure power forward and has a bit more size, Battier has shown that he gets the job done so much better on the defensive end regardless of his opponent.




Defense cannot be measured by stats.
Howard has pure PF instincts, Battier, while having a high basketball IQ, doesnt have the same instinct.


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## Hakeem (Aug 12, 2004)

crazyfan said:


> Defense cannot be measured by stats.
> Howard has pure PF instincts, Battier, while having a high basketball IQ, doesnt have the same instinct.


Battier spent significant time at PF in Memphis. He's a better defender than Howard, even at that position.


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## crazyfan (Dec 9, 2005)

Hakeem said:


> Battier spent significant time at PF in Memphis. He's a better defender than Howard, even at that position.




Well, I hope you guys are right.
I really want us back in the playoffs.


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## AZNoob (Jan 21, 2006)

Pssh...we getting back...just not sure how far we can advance....


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## hitokiri315 (Apr 30, 2004)

jworth said:


> We've heard the doubts and concerns that fans and critics have voiced. By trading away a ball of potential in Rudy Gay, there's plenty of reason to understand why many would take a questionable approach. But if you look closely, Shane Battier really does fit the Rockets like a glove.
> 
> The cynics say, "He's too small to play power forward where he'll be overmatched by the likes of Tim Duncan, Dirk, and KG." But those doubters forget that just a few, short months ago the Phoenix Suns reached the Western Conference Finals being led in the post by a versatile, 6-foot-9 Boris Diaw. And the critics must not remember that the San Antonio Spurs matched up best against Dallas when they played the likes of Robert Horry and Bruce Bowen next to Duncan as the team's second biggest player on the floor.
> 
> ...



A+ on your report Jworth

:biggrin:


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## tone wone (Jan 30, 2003)

jworth said:


> The price will only have been too high if Gay explodes for a great rookie season.


 Not really but I guess thats how this trade must be rationalized to look good.


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## jworth (Feb 17, 2006)

tone wone said:


> Not really but I guess thats how this trade must be rationalized to look good.


The Rockets aren't worrying about three seasons from now, and it's hard to blame them for that when you consider how much longer McGrady has. Now, we could all decide that McGrady's value is very low and that Gay will likely become better than him, but seriously, the smarter bet is to try and win now with two superstars instead of worrying about the team's situation three or four years from now when McGrady might no longer be a superstar. Gay will have to have a great rookie season in order to prove that he would be more valuable than Battier on Houston's current roster.


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## BuzzerBeater (Feb 9, 2004)

jworth said:


> The price will only have been too high if Gay explodes for a great rookie season.


Even if that happens, does it really matter? Rudy Gay on the Rockets team will have a completely different impact compared to on the Grizzlies team since Grizz lacks an explosive scorer. The Rockets do not need another player that would demand the ball from TMac and Yao; they need a solid, versaile team player and they have gotten one of the best if not the best in Shane, who can improve the Rockets in many many areas from defense, drawing charges, deflections, to passing, and locker room leadership. Sure Rudy Gay may go on and have a stellar career, but that is unknown for now, and even if he does, IMO wouldn't help the Rockets under this current lineup as much as Mr. Intangible Shane Battier. Shane will become the glue of this team. The Rockets cannot afford another under-achieving year, and they have certainly made the right move.


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## bronx43 (Dec 9, 2005)

BuzzerBeater said:


> Even if that happens, does it really matter? Rudy Gay on the Rockets team will have a completely different impact compared to on the Grizzlies team since Grizz lacks an explosive scorer. The Rockets do not need another player that would demand the ball from TMac and Yao; they need a solid, versaile team player and they have gotten one of the best if not the best in Shane, who can improve the Rockets in many many areas from defense, drawing charges, deflections, to passing, and locker room leadership. Sure Rudy Gay may go on and have a stellar career, but that is unknown for now, and even if he does, IMO wouldn't help the Rockets under this current lineup as much as Mr. Intangible Shane Battier. Shane will become the glue of this team. The Rockets cannot afford another under-achieving year, and they have certainly made the right move.


We could have gotten Kyle Lowry along with the package. Now we're just left with a terrible bunch of free agents and a MLE from Stromile.


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## Pimped Out (May 4, 2005)

BuzzerBeater said:


> Even if that happens, does it really matter? Rudy Gay on the Rockets team will have a completely different impact compared to on the Grizzlies team since Grizz lacks an explosive scorer. The Rockets do not need another player that would demand the ball from TMac and Yao; they need a solid, versaile team player and they have gotten one of the best if not the best in Shane, who can improve the Rockets in many many areas from defense, drawing charges, deflections, to passing, and locker room leadership. Sure Rudy Gay may go on and have a stellar career, but that is unknown for now, and even if he does, IMO wouldn't help the Rockets under this current lineup as much as Mr. Intangible Shane Battier. Shane will become the glue of this team. The Rockets cannot afford another under-achieving year, and they have certainly made the right move.


are you telling me that gay having a break out season and being an explosive scorer would be bad for this team? i understand tmac and yao need to be our top options, but you dont give up a 3 star line up for a 2 star and a role player line up. If Gay could turn into what josh howard was last year (all of last year, not just the playoffs) the rockets would be better off. I understand intangibles are important, but you dont give up star players for it. Gay should be a versatile, athletic scorer and defender in his career. You just dont give up stars for role players.


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## BuzzerBeater (Feb 9, 2004)

I Start Fires said:


> are you telling me that gay having a break out season and being an explosive scorer would be bad for this team? i understand tmac and yao need to be our top options, but you dont give up a 3 star line up for a 2 star and a role player line up. If Gay could turn into what josh howard was last year (all of last year, not just the playoffs) the rockets would be better off. I understand intangibles are important, but you dont give up star players for it. Gay should be a versatile, athletic scorer and defender in his career. You just dont give up stars for role players.


I agree that you don't give up stars for role players, and also agree with bronx43 that the Rockets could've gotten a better deal.. but those aside, I still believe in Rockets' position, the trade made the team better. Sure it looks better on paper if you have 3 stars, but it's all about the team chemistry; having 2 superstars in the lineup is already a luxury that most of other teams don't have, IMO getting another scorer into the mix is less effective as compared to getting a floor leader.

 Perspective coming from a HOU and MEM fan.


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## jworth (Feb 17, 2006)

...especially since there's no guarantee that Gay will even be a superstar in the NBA while it's almost a given that Battier will do his part.

Not that I don't think Gay has legit superstar potential.


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