# Atlanta Hawks and Los Angeles Lakers have completed a deal.



## Bartholomew Hunt

According to Atlanta sportsradio anyways.

Arnie Spaniar says that the Hawks and Lakers have agreed in principle on a trade that will send Theo Ratliff to L.A. for Horry, Fisher, Kareem Rush and a draft pick.


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## dmilesai

I haven't heard it's a done deal, but I've heard that it's close to happening after the finals.


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## hOnDo

Wow, a 4 for 1 deal?? Kareem and a draft pick? thats our future right there.

Is this actually something that is going to happen?

Why couldn't we get Theo and Terry? you would think with 4 players we could at least get 2


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## Nevus

Good for Theo Ratliff, moving up to the bigtime.


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## Marcus13

Bad for the Lakaz-they sold there future away...


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## Damian Necronamous

What? No way. Someone else has to be included.

1) Lakers have to re-sign Horry.

2) Hawks have to re-sign JT and put him in the deal, or Lakers will have no PG.

3) Why would the Lakers include a draft pick as well?! The Hawks should be the one adding a pick. There has to be more to this deal than you heard.


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## JerryWest

Kupchek is a freaking idiot.

He wouldn't deal horry and rush for terry.

but he's willing to give him more + draft pick for injury plagued ratliff...

This is the deepest draft in years too and probably only one in awhile they'll get a player w/ potential they can this year.

Whatever...


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## Kmasonbx

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> What? No way. Someone else has to be included.
> 
> 1) Lakers have to re-sign Horry.
> 
> 2) Hawks have to re-sign JT and put him in the deal, or Lakers will have no PG.
> 
> 3) Why would the Lakers include a draft pick as well?! The Hawks should be the one adding a pick. There has to be more to this deal than you heard.


All they have to do is sign Horry, and trade him, sign and trade. The pick part doesn't make sense, they could use that to replace Fisher. But with Ratliff, Shaq, and Kobe, assuming Ratliff stays healthy, this could make the Lakers unbeatable again.



> Originally posted by <b>Marcus13</b>!Bad for the Lakaz-they sold there future away...


Don't tell me you think Kareem Rush and a late first round pick are the Lakers future? The Lakers future is already the star of the league, Kobe Bryant. Kareem Rush is easily replaceable. Maybe the lakers do make this trade, and leave Pargo as the only PG on the roster, maybe they are in better position with Gary Payton than anybody realizes.


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## JNice

> Originally posted by <b>Kmasonbx</b>!
> 
> But with Ratliff, Shaq, and Kobe, assuming Ratliff stays healthy, this could make the Lakers unbeatable again.


Not if Jermaine Oneal lands in San Antonio.


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## JerryWest

Like Damian said, unless terry is in the deal it just doesn't seem right at all


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## JerryWest

"maybe they are in better position with Gary Payton than anybody realizes."

I was just thinking that too


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## LoaKhoet

> Originally posted by <b>-D!</b>!
> According to Atlanta sportsradio anyways.
> 
> Arnie Spaniar says that the Hawks and Lakers have agreed in principle on a trade that will send Theo Ratliff to L.A. for Horry, Fisher, Kareem Rush and a draft pick.


Not a bad trade for the Lakers. Ratliff seems to have recovered well and is now very healthy. Can you imagine?

Shaq
Ratliff
Fox or George
Kobe
Payton?

With either Fox or George coming off the bench as well as a $1.2M FA this summer. That starting FIVE will destroy teams both offensively and defensively.


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## Tom

*Re: Re: Atlanta Hawks and Los Angeles Lakers have completed a deal.*



> Originally posted by <b>LoaKhoet</b>!
> 
> 
> Not a bad trade for the Lakers. Ratliff seems to have recovered well and is now very healthy. Can you imagine?
> 
> Shaq
> Ratliff
> Fox or George
> Kobe
> Payton?
> 
> With either Fox or George coming off the bench as well as a $1.2M FA this summer. That starting FIVE will destroy teams both offensively and defensively.


:hurl: 

Why anyone (especially the east) would make a deal like this with the lakers is unfathomable to say the least.


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## toiletscrubber

All I want to say is the Lakers got the better end of this deal.

First, Horry is aging and he's likely not going to help a lot
second, Derek Fisher is the most overrate point guard in this league, and his point guard skills are worst than Dan Dickau

so basically, it's Kareem Rush and a late first round for Theo Ratliff, who was an all star centre when he's suppose to be a power forward. Now he goes back to his natural spot, and Lakers free up cap space for Payton, Malone or Pippen


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## Kstat

LA clearly makes out like bandits in this deal. Fisher, Horry and Rush are secondhand garbage, and the 29th pick in the draft isn't exactly gold. Ratliff is a legit starter at PF or C on any NBA team. The junk they are getting will be lucky to produce one starter on the 2004 Hawks.

The fact Laker fans think they can get Ratliff AND Terry just shows how spolied they are.


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## alchemist

Well, the salaries match up, but LA is left without a point guard. Atlanta was enticed by the fact Horry's $19M salary will be gone after only a year, but what will their line-up be?

Fisher
Terry
Robinson
SAR
Mohammed? 
Maybe. I think Atlanta is going to have a firesale this summer, and acquire draft picks and expiring contracts. If LA can get Terry, they'll be very dangerous, but they'd have to throw in another player, maybe a future draft pick.

I thought LA would go for a veteran PF- Juwan Howard or PJ Brown were my picks to go to Tinseltown. But, I like this trade, its creative. As long as Theo's hip holds together.


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## CrossinUOvr03

At first, I thought the Lakers were getting robbed. But they can sign a PG through free agency to make up for Fisher being gone. Ratliff will definitely give them another presence inside, if he can stay healthy. The only thing I'd worry about with the Lakers is losing Rush (assuming he develops), but you've already got Kobe, so what's the difference with him leaving?


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## Damian Necronamous

Fisher is a great player, much better than most of you guys are making him out to be.


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## ScottVdub

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> Fisher is a great player, much better than most of you guys are making him out to be.


hes great at making the opposing pg have a nice stat sheet.


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## Idunkonyou

I just want to know how this deal is going to go down if Horry is a FA? Sounds bogus to me.


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## Ben1

Is this deal for real ?


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## Siouxperior

> Originally posted by <b>ScottVdub</b>!
> 
> 
> hes great at making the opposing pg have a nice stat sheet.


True, he made Troy Hudsen look like Allen Iverson


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## John

> Originally posted by <b>-D!</b>!
> According to Atlanta sportsradio anyways.
> 
> Arnie Spaniar says that the Hawks and Lakers have agreed in principle on a trade that will send Theo Ratliff to L.A. for Horry, Fisher, Kareem Rush and a draft pick.



I say the hawks just want to get rid of Theo, I dont know his contract but dont be surpise that it was a deal that the Hawks will release Horry and then La signs him back for a cheaper price!


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## MemphisX

If Shaq comes back in shape and Theo is healthy, this immediately makes the Lakers the best defensive team in the league(unless the Spurs get O'Neal then it's a toss up). Add in Payton+ a rookie PG(Banks, Mo Williams, Bell, Nelson, or Moore) at #32 and the Lakers will again be the favorites.

If this happens and San Antonio gets O'Neal, Sacremento and Dallas can go ahead and get a head start on rebuilding.


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## Bball_Doctor

> Originally posted by <b>-D!</b>!
> According to Atlanta sportsradio anyways.
> 
> Arnie Spaniar says that the Hawks and Lakers have agreed in principle on a trade that will send Theo Ratliff to L.A. for Horry, Fisher, Kareem Rush and a draft pick.


If this is true that means that the Lakers will use their first round to pick a PG or they are close to luring a FA.:grinning:


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## HBK826

Phil likes big point guards so I wouldn't be shocked to see Pippen end up running LA's point. That would cause huge matchup problems and the other team would need a miracle to break 80!

Jermaine O'Neal is really overrated. If he can't be a dominant big man consistently in the East, I doubt he will in the West.


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## Vinsanity

holy **** Shaq and Ratliff.....BLOCK PARTY!!!


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## BBallFan

> Originally posted by <b>Idunkonyou</b>!
> I just want to know how this deal is going to go down if Horry is a FA? Sounds bogus to me.


I think he was going to retire... but I'm sure he has no problem having the Lakers pick up his option, trade him, and then he'll retire 5 million richer.


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## Pinball

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> Fisher is a great player, much better than most of you guys are making him out to be.


Case in point of how the word "great" is overused in sports today. I hate it when people (not you X) use the word "great" in reference to a truly great player like KG, and a borderline All Star like Brian Grant. Using the same word to describe both players makes it seem like they are on the same level and they clearly aren't. In this case, Fisher is better than people are making him out to be but he isn't "great". I said it before and I'll say it again, Fisher is probably between 16-22 as far as starting PGs in the league are concerned. He's not the best but he isn't the worst either. He's a good shooter, solid defender, and very good leader. However, he lacks playmaking ability and isn't the quickest guy on the floor so he can be a bit of a liability at times.


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## Pinball

Ideally, I'd like to have a 1st round draft pick but this is still a great deal for LA. If Ratliff can stay healthy, and I know that is a big if, the Lakers make out like bandits. I can't believe some people are whining about dealing Fisher and Horry now, when they were dogging them throughout the year. I think we all saw how close to the end Robert Horry was and Fisher is a turnstile for the league's quick PGs. Rush will be a solid player in the future but he doesn't have the upside that I thought he had going into the draft. As for our 1st round pick, I'd love to have one but keep one thing in mind. Rush was our 1st round pick last year and Pargo was an undrafted FA. Who played better for us last year?


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## PacersguyUSA

> Jermaine O'Neal is really overrated. If he can't be a dominant big man consistently in the East, I doubt he will in the West.


Uh, Jermaine is a dominant big man in the East.


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## DaBigTicketKG21

Jermaine is a seven footer that actually has talent. He has great shot blocking ability, athletic body, and a nice sweet turnaround jumper for a big man. He is just a younger, but more athletic Tim Duncan.


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## dmilesai

If this trade happens, and the Lakers can grab Pippen or Payton in FA. :no: Shaq/Theo/George/Kobe/Pippen or Payton. Great defensive line-up. At #32 grab Banks if he's still there or Jameer Nelson. I don't know WHY Laker fans are mad. Rush could be a pretty good player, but Theo was an all-star center in the East, and he's possibly the best shot-blocker in the league.


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## Crossword

Stupid Hawks!!! LA absolutely ROBS Atlanta in this trade!!! Ratliff is better than everyone on the Lakers combined except for Shaq & Kobe! AGH!!! This trade just set the east back 5 years!


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## JerryWest

I think a few of the fans are disappointed about losing the 1st round pick... not so much fisher and horry. That's just me personally. No real problems w/ losing fisher and horry just the 1st pick.


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## JerryWest

The problem w/ Theo isn't his talent, it's just that he'll be lucky to play 1/3rd of the games next season  

If he's healthy, it'll be alright.


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## JOHNNY_BRAVisimO

This deal gives the Hawks a chance to pickup one of the many bigman projects like Malick Badiane and Kedrick Perkins.. The Hawks need some youth since their veterans cant win jack.


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## TheRifleman

> Originally posted by <b>-D!</b>!
> According to Atlanta sportsradio anyways.
> 
> Arnie Spaniar says that the Hawks and Lakers have agreed in principle on a trade that will send Theo Ratliff to L.A. for Horry, Fisher, Kareem Rush and a draft pick.


Man - if Atlanta did that, Mitch would be hailed as a genius! Horry is sorry and Kareem is unproven and a LOW draft pick? The only decent thing for the Hawks is getting Fisher, which means that they don't think Dickau is working out.

I can't believe the Hawks staff would be so foolish as to send Theo away - he is their ONLY defense currently. You'd think they'd know that by now.


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## Burn

Wow, another horrible move by the Hawks. Shocking


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## TheOrigiBulls

I think that this shows that the lakers are serious about getting back to the finals. they got rid of some excess bagage, and picked up a reliever for shaq. although they will have to gain another PG. the hawks, i feel, did good. they got a proven vet in horry, they got a PG, and some young talent in rush. also they got a low pick to futher their chances at contending. not saying they are contenders, they are just heading in that direction. and i think they they are softening the blow of not making the playoffs.with that promise they made.......not good.


IMHO


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## Pinball

> Originally posted by <b>KennethTo</b>!
> The problem w/ Theo isn't his talent, it's just that he'll be lucky to play 1/3rd of the games next season
> 
> If he's healthy, it'll be alright.


On the bright side he did play in 81 games last year so maybe there is still hope.


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## TheRifleman

> Originally posted by <b>TheOrigiBulls</b>!
> I think that this shows that the lakers are serious about getting back to the finals. they got rid of some excess bagage, and picked up a reliever for shaq. although they will have to gain another PG. the hawks, i feel, did good. they got a proven vet in horry, they got a PG, and some young talent in rush. also they got a low pick to futher their chances at contending. not saying they are contenders, they are just heading in that direction. and i think they they are softening the blow of not making the playoffs.with that promise they made.......not good.
> 
> 
> IMHO


The Lakers are dead on serious! The Hawks management must have buckshot for brains if they go ahead with a deal like this! Horry may be a "reliable" vet ( <font color=purple>more like pathetic - I remember TOO well what a sorry butt he was for the Suns. The guy cannot play unless he plays beside a top 50 of all time center - HAKEEM & SHAQ) , </font>he won't see any time behind Reef - <b>thank goodness!</b> I feel for the Hawk fans - how I feel for them.


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## TheOrigiBulls

> Originally posted by <b>TheRifleman</b>!
> 
> 
> The Lakers are dead on serious! The Hawks management must have buckshot for brains if they go ahead with a deal like this! Horry may be a "reliable" vet ( <font color=purple>more like pathetic - I remember TOO well what a sorry butt he was for the Suns. The guy cannot play unless he plays beside a top 50 of all time center - HAKEEM & SHAQ) , </font>he won't see any time behind Reef - <b>thank goodness!</b> I feel for the Hawk fans - how I feel for them.


We'll cross that bridge when we get there.

Horry didnt do good in PHX because of his hatred of Ainge.


What about Fisher and Rush???
Fisher's a decent pickup. its not like ATL had a PG anyway. and rush didnt have that many oppertunites in LA. I think he'll prosper in ATL, or burnout terribly............................:|


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## Damian Necronamous

> Originally posted by <b>JOHNNY_BRAVisimO</b>!
> This deal gives the Hawks a chance to pickup one of the many bigman projects like Malick Badiane and Kedrick Perkins.


I doubt the Lakers would give the Hawks their First Rounder this year.


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## Pinball

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> 
> 
> I doubt the Lakers would give the Hawks their First Rounder this year.


Lets be honest though X, we're picking 23rd not 5th. I doubt there is going to be that much of a drop off in talent from #23-32. We'll still get a decent player in the 2nd round. Plus, the NBA is different from the NFL in that there are tons of quality players who don't get drafted. There are only 58 picks so you're going to have plenty of talented, undrafted FAs. In the NFL most of the talent is gone after the 3rd or 4th round.


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## Idunkonyou

Still sounds bogus. First off a team has to pick up a players team option before the season starts for the following year. I think the deadline is October 31st for every season. If you don't, then that player is a FA the following season. 

I have heard all year how Horry was a FA this year and will be going back to Houston unless the Lakers re-sign him. Sounds to me like they didn't pick up his team option before the season started meaning this trade would have to be accepted by Horry and I highly doubt he is going to agree on a trade that sends him to Atlanta. 

The Lakers and Atlanta may still be trading, but I doubt Horry will be involved.


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## HBK826

Jermaine O'Neal is not a younger and more athletic Tim Duncan and you should be banished to basketball hell for suggesting that. There are no big men in the east besides Jerm and Kenyon. Jerm is a Prima Donna who gets his numbers and his team goes nowhere. Did you see the Pacers once the entire second half? If he were a younger Duncan there is no way the Pacers don't atleast make the conference finals. I mean Christ, compare him to Webber or something, not Duncan! 
And Jermaine is not dominant. He can't pass out of the double to save his life, he's selfish and demands to be treated like the entire franchise when he has accomplished NOTHING (he insists that his team trade Artest and retain Zeke as Coach). What has he done to earn this right? Did his team make the second round of the playoffs? In the EASY EAST? No. He plays solid ball, just enough to get his numbers and make a decent, but not great team. Heartless punk. His team ends up playing better ball when Al Harrington gets time at the 4. And you know why? Jerm won't share the space down there with Al, even though Al has star potential. I really hope Jerm doesn't end up in SA so that Duncan won't have to carry his sorry *** to a title and make the fool look good. <strike>He belongs in Portland with the rest of the Jail Blazers.</strike><font color=blue>(We do NOT allow team names to be denigrated on this site!! - In other words, you canNOT call the Blazers by that distasteful term.)</font>


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## emplay

Howdy BasketballBoards.net,

I'm emplay - I write for the Laker Report for Hoopsworld.

I am the source of this rumor as far as the idea in my last column. Whether someone heard it on the radio or not - I doubt it. If it was on Arnie Spanier's show - then he read my article.

The idea is this - Robert Horry is only a free agent at the option of the Lakers.

If they decide before the 1st of July to PICK UP his option for next season - he's still under contract at $5.3 mil.

In order to trade him - they would exercise the option. They cannot trade him before the draft IF they waive his option. In that case - he'd be a free agent and they wouldn't be able to sign and trade him until July 15th.

The original deal was:

Fisher, Horry and (Rush or Slava)

for

Ratliff

It'd be up to Atlanta and Mitch Kupchak to decide between Rush or Slava - both contracts work in the deal.

The reason Atlanta would make the trade is because they have a bloated payroll and still can't make the playoffs. They have very low attendence and are losing money.

They have Jason Terry as a restricted free agent - but could use a cheap, veteran point guard with a good outside shot. The advantage to Fisher's contract is that he's locked in for 3 more years at just $3 mil apiece.

Horry would be trade filler as an expiring contract and would allow the Hawks to get out from Ratliff's 2nd year at $11 mil.

Slava is an expiring contract - but they may want to groom Rush at the 2 guard. At this point they don't have much other than Terry in the back court.

The big question is whether the Lakers want to foot the bill for Ratliff - especially with his history of injury. He was solid this last season - remember that game winning block against Jermaine O'Neal and the Pacers?

Finally - if Ratliff came to LA and didn't work out. He would only be a risk for 1 season. The 2nd year on his deal is his final one - making his contract a nice, juicy, $11 mil piece of trade bait. 

Expiring contracts are like gold - that's why tons of teams are interested in trading for Terrell Brandon even though he'll never play again (technically it's not expiring, but he's retiring and the team will only have to pay 20% of the salary for 2 years with insurance covering the rest - and none of it goes against the salary cap).

When I posted this in my Laker Report last week - the idea was Payton at the mle, Ratliff in trade and Tyronn Lue at the lle

Shaq
Ratliff
George
Kobe
Payton

That's a very strong starting 5 with Lue off the bench.

I didn't include draft picks in my idea - and it's amusing to get the infamous "radio rumor" treatment.

Nice site you have here.

Eric (emplay) Pincus


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## Idunkonyou

So is the team option on a veteran contract different then the team option on a rookie contract?


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## emplay

I'm not sure how any difference would apply in this case. A team cannot trade a player not under contract - whether it be a rookie or vet. Once the option is exercised though - the player can be traded.

There are differences between the option on a rookie contract - and that of a veteran.

A team has to make their decision about the option on a rookie contract before the start of the season - not at the end.

Madsen and Horry both have team options for 2003-4.

Madsen was told that the team wasn't picking it up before the start of the 2002-3 season.

The team has to make there decision on June 30th or earlier for Horry's option.


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## TheRifleman

Welcome to basketballboards, <b>emplay</b>! 

I'm glad to find out this is all just a rumor! For awhile there, I really thought that the management staff in Atlanta had flipped their lids.


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## emplay

The Atlanta brass already flipped when they offered a refund if the team didn't make the playoffs.

With poor attendance - a high payroll - and a bad combination of players - they may try to dump salary.

Guys like Ratliff, Nazr, Big Dog, Reef, Terry - are potentially on the block for the right price.

They won't dump Reef for salary though - they need talent back for him. Ratliff, Nazr and even the Big Dog may be available for good contracts.

I'm not optimistic that the deal will happen - but if the Lakers go big in trade - they would still have the mle to try and get Payton.

If Gary doesn't work out - they can split the mle to get a couple of $2.5 mil contracts.


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## emplay

Oh - and thanks for the welcome


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## JOHNNY_BRAVisimO

is this deal going to happen or did you only propose it on the radio?


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## emplay

I proposed the deal at a website known as Hoopsworld.com

http://www.hoopsworld.com/article_3976.shtml

on Jun 4, 2003, at 6:37 am

"Fisher, Horry (at $5.3 mil) and (Rush or Slava) to Atlanta for Theo Ratliff.

This is one I’ve come up with. It is a big commitment by Laker owner Jerry Buss, as Ratliff has a 2-year deal worth $21 mil. Despite his history of injury, Ratliff had a good season last year and the Hawks are eager to dump salary. The Timberwolves can mess up just about any Laker deal with their Brandon contract, but it’s a definitely a possibility. If LA doesn’t take Horry’s option, this deal becomes extremely hard to make happen. With a team salary totaling close to $70 mil in this scenario, I wouldn’t blame Dr. Buss for passing. On the other hand, Theo in the lineup would really take care of both the power forward and backup center spot. Ratliff could definitely hold down the fort if Shaq were on the injured list. From that perspective, I think it’s worth it and this is my favorite choice as of yet."

Either it was not reported on the radio at all - probably the case - and it's a typical internet "radio rumor"

or someone on the radio (Arnie) read the article and tried to pass it off as their own.

I'm an educated fan - and I do have contacts - but nothing concrete on this deal has been announced.


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## NugzFan

> Originally posted by <b>-D!</b>!
> According to Atlanta sportsradio anyways.
> 
> Arnie Spaniar says that the Hawks and Lakers have agreed in principle on a trade that will send Theo Ratliff to L.A. for Horry, Fisher, Kareem Rush and a draft pick.


whoa! if true, i guess howard isnt going to LA.


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## venturalakersfan

As Emplay mentioned, the deal for Ratliff could only last one year. If a younger, more attractive player is available next offseason or during the 2004-2005 season, Ratliff represents an attractive ending contract. The only way the Lakers could lose out is if Ratliff gets hurt. As far as the point, bring in Lue for the LLE or vet min to replace Fish The Point. As far as replacing Fish the 3-Point Shooter, bring in Kapono.


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## cmd34

*?*

Hey a fellow Kapono fan.... sweet!

I just can't see the Lakers doing this type of trade unless Jason Terry is involved.


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## venturalakersfan

Or if they know Payton is in the bag.


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## GNG

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> Fisher is a great player, much better than most of you guys are making him out to be.


I know. I love how he wears his headbands over his ears. That's the best part of his game.

HE'S AWESOME.


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## Bartholomew Hunt

Shaq for Vin Baker + fillers


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## lakeshow83

This would be a great trade for the Lakers as long as they are sure they are going to get Payton. If that doesnt happen they wont have a PG and the only way the deal would be good is if Jason Terry is added to it as well!


Basketball is life!!!!!!


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## MadFace

*Damn...*

If the hawks want to give Theo away they can give him back to the Pistons. doug Collins is gone, and that's the reason why he was traded...he wasn't going to resign with Detroit because Dougie was there


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