# According to World Wide Wes (and an exec) Lebron and Bosh are Chicago bound...



## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

Take this for what it is worth, from Yahoo:




> To listen to World Wide Wes, LeBron will never look back on Cleveland. “He’s up out of there,” is the way he tells it to people, but LeBron’s Akron crew has to tsk-tsk such public talk because they all live in Northeast Ohio, and maybe always will. “We’re going to Chicago,” William Wesley tells people, “and Chris Bosh(notes) is coming, too.”
> 
> Free agency started months ago, and there isn’t a day that passes that the biggest stars, agents and teams aren’t negotiating in violation of the NBA’s make-believe rules. Just make sure Phoenix Suns GM Steve Kerr sends his five-figure check for making a joke on a radio show about James. This is the biggest farce the NBA’s ever endorsed and enabled, and that’s saying a lot considering the people responsible for running this Truman Show starring LeBron, Wes and Maverick Carter.
> 
> The Bulls believe they’re going to get James, and that’s why they so confidently cleared the cap room needed to sign James and Bosh. The Bulls think they’re getting James and Toronto’s Chris Bosh, that the supporting cast of Derrick Rose(notes) and Joakim Noah(notes) make them the most attractive destination. Nevertheless, the biggest myth of free agency, some executives pursuing James say, is that recruiting Bosh is telltale to the cause. “Bosh is attaching himself more to LeBron, than LeBron is to him,” one official said.


http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=Ahx05R6mrU.UO4lbWSbWenc5nYcB?slug=aw-lebronfreeagent062510


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## Wishbone (Jun 10, 2002)

Dornado said:


> Take this for what it is worth, from Yahoo:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



that would be pretty nice if it could happen. getting in Bosh and LeBron is the only scenario I can see that is a winning situation given what is transpiring in the wake of the draft. But even this alone isn't enough.
Bringing in those two, along with what's left of the core needs to result in multiple championships (i.e. 3+) over the next 5-7 years for this to be a success.

sure, I'll be happy with even 1 ring. but that's not what they're shooting for by making these moves and trying to bring in these guys. it really is dynasty or bust at this point.


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## Pay Ton (Apr 18, 2003)

Wishbone said:


> it really is dynasty or bust at this point.


Yeah, it's such a fine line.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

Let me just star out by saying that I'm all for getting the best players possible via free agency and obviously a Bosh and Lebron pairing would be AMAZING but that being said I have to say that this free agent period is a joke. 

David Stern has 0 control of his league right now, you got back door deals, players and handlers leaking out information as leverage plays, you got teams buying into the lies and clearing rosters. 

There are more than a handful of teams with cap space and sadly maybe 2 or 3 of those teams will come away with prizes, while the rest of the other teams will be in the gutter for a very long time. 

If I'm a Knicks fan I would be very worried right now.


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

Honestly some of you guys are being a little ridiculous with the "dynasty or bust" type comments. We give up BG, Hinrich, and TT and now all of a sudden if we don't replace that motley crew with a team capable of winning 3 or more rings, then we should be furious at our management. Give me a break. Hinrich, BG, and TT weren't going to ever even get us to the semifinals. And if they did it would be because Rose, Noah, and Deng carried them there. Like I said before if we could just get 2 guys like Joe Johnson and Lee, it would be _such_ a better team than we ever would have put together by not clearing cap space.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

> The most unforgettable moment of the offseason had to be the Cavs’ new GM, Chris Grant, standing there at his introductory news conference reading a list of scripted compliments about his owner that the organization laid out for him. The Cavs can script these things, but they’re losing control of the free-agency narrative. For so long, Gilbert enabled everything with LeBron – the bigger-than-life billboards, the full-time jobs and summer league roster spots for his buddies and the endless capitulations that contributed to his obsession with creating a culture of all him, all the time in the NBA.
> 
> LeBron’s title chase is lurching closer and closer, the Ego Championship of the NBA. All hell is breaking loose, broken rules and broken promises ruling the day. Somewhere, James was smiling on Thursday night. All these kids getting a dream fulfilled, all these picks walking to the podium, and it was still all about LeBron James on draft night. On your knees, people. Bow down to the King. Bow to the chaos.


Almost sounds like Adrian Wojnarowski is pissed or disgusted with Lebron James lol. Jordan had issues with wanting his own custom rosters and was very mad when his buddy Oakley was shipped out but it never changed Jordan's attitude towards winning, I wonder if Lebron a guy who has never been told NO before could be the same way. 

I wonder if Bulls management is strong enough to keep Lebron from taking over the franchise the way he did in Cleveland.


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## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

caseyrh said:


> Honestly some of you guys are being a little ridiculous with the "dynasty or bust" type comments. We give up BG, Hinrich, and TT and now all of a sudden if we don't replace that motley crew with a team capable of winning 3 or more rings, then we should be furious at our management. Give me a break. Hinrich, BG, and TT weren't going to ever even get us to the semifinals. And if they did it would be because Rose, Noah, and *Deng* carried them there. Like I said before if we could just get 2 guys like Joe Johnson and Lee, it would be _such_ a better team than we ever would have put together by not clearing cap space.


No personal attacks, please


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## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

thebizkit69u said:


> Almost sounds like Adrian Wojnarowski is pissed or disgusted with Lebron James lol.


He's not the only one. All draft I was like come on and STFU about that douchebag already. Been sick of him for years already.


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## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

The funny thing is that LeBron will be opting out again in three years so we can do this all over again (god help us all)...


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

DaBabyBullz said:


> Your ignorance shows more in every post. That comment showed a whole new level of stupidity that I wasn't even sure was possible. Dung isn't carrying any team anywhere, especially when he's nursing some sissy injury. That worthless POS should be long gone.


My ignorance? lol.


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## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

caseyrh said:


> My ignorance? lol.


Again, no personal attacks


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

caseyrh said:


> Honestly some of you guys are being a little ridiculous with the "dynasty or bust" type comments. We give up BG, Hinrich, and TT and now all of a sudden if we don't replace that motley crew with a team capable of winning 3 or more rings, then we should be furious at our management. Give me a break. Hinrich, BG, and TT weren't going to ever even get us to the semifinals. And if they did it would be because Rose, Noah, and Deng carried them there. Like I said before if we could just get 2 guys like Joe Johnson and Lee, it would be _such_ a better team than we ever would have put together by not clearing cap space.



I know... Dynasty or bust? What? Wouldn't that imply that we gave up a dynasty to take this chance? It is a superstar league and we are going balls-out for some superstars. Two or three of my favorite Bulls (from a fan perspective) have been shipped out in the process (Tyrus and Hinrich... had a fondness for Noce and Sefolosha as well) but doing anything short of everything you can to get one of these big name free agents would be a huge mistake. I think if you end up with a better record it was worth it... if you win a title it was a great move, if you end up with a dynasty it was an icredible move, etc...



DaBabyBullz said:


> Your ignorance shows more in every post. That comment showed a whole new level of stupidity that I wasn't even sure was possible. Dung isn't carrying any team anywhere, especially when he's nursing some sissy injury. That worthless POS should be long gone.


You are off of your rocker at this point... it is delusional to pretend that Deng hasn't helped this team win ball games. Is he a perfect player? No... are you exaggerating his faults to the point of marginalizing yourself as a poster and losing most of your credibility? Yes...


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## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

Dornado said:


> You are off of your rocker at this point... it is delusional to pretend that Deng hasn't helped this team win ball games. Is he a perfect player? No... are you exaggerating his faults to the point of marginalizing yourself as a poster and losing most of your credibility? Yes...


No I'm not. Helping a team win, and CARRYING them is an entirely different point. And when he misses 1/5 games, you can't rely on him to even help win a game way too often. When he is out there, the only thing he can do offensively is catch the ball when his TEAMMATES create the opportunity for him to be open and shoot an uncontested jumper or a layup. He does nothing that isn't very easily replaceable. They could've drafted better player at 17 yesterday. Hell I'd take Luke Babbitt over him any day and he fell clear to 16. At least he can already create his own shot, has a bit of a handle, and can really shoot from deep range....all things Dung will never be able to do. 

As for my credibility, I really don't care what people making those claims think of me, because they have absolutely zero cred with me to begin with anyway.


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

DaBabyBullz said:


> Yes your ignorance. Anyone that is stupid enough to think that a 6'9" pile of steaming dung is going to carry a team anywhere except to the doctor's office is unbelievably ignorant. You said it, so if the shoe fits...


Easy on the personal attacks
And I don't know how solid your reading comprehension skills are but I said Rose, Noah, and Deng. Meaning I think Rose, Noah, and Deng are all better than Hinrich, BG, and TT. Is that so crazy??? 

Anytime Deng is mentioned positiveley on here it is like your mission to bash the guy. relax.

And I won't be getting into an arguement with you about Deng again. Let's just summarize what would happen in the multi post arguement though. I would support my arguement with evidence and intelligent arguements. And you would get very emotional, call him childish names, and insult him. Without supporting your arguemnt at all, or injecting a single intelligent basketball opinion.

See that was a lot easier... I feel like I'm maturing as a poster, just summarized the arguement and saved the rest of the posters 2 pages of a stupid arguement.

And for the record, because I defend Deng against people who call him terrible does not mean I think he is a hall of famer or untradeable or anything like that. I just think the dude is a good player who IMO happens to be a great fit on our team going forward if we add at least one more 20+ppg scorer. I think there is a chance he is a bit overpayed it just doesn't bother me so much because if he is it is only by a bit, almost every good team overpays for players, and he is such a good fit that it is justified.

i will keep my promise here, so go ahead and call "Dung a sissy" or whatever simpleminded response you are planning, I'm ignoring it.


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

DaBabyBullz said:


> No I'm not. Helping a team win, and CARRYING them is an entirely different point. And when he misses 1/5 games, you can't rely on him to even help win a game way too often. When he is out there, the only thing he can do offensively is catch the ball when his TEAMMATES create the opportunity for him to be open and shoot an uncontested jumper or a layup. He does nothing that isn't very easily replaceable. They could've drafted better player at 17 yesterday. Hell I'd take Luke Babbitt over him any day and he fell clear to 16. At least he can already create his own shot, has a bit of a handle, and can really shoot from deep range....all things Dung will never be able to do.
> 
> As for my credibility, I really don't care what people making those claims think of me, because they have absolutely zero cred with me to begin with anyway.


Luke Babbitt is going to be better than Deng? Wasn't Joe Alexander going to be better than Deng too? and Chase Budinger? 

You vastly underrate Deng, that's all I'm saying. Casey used the term "carrying" but he also mentioned a group of guys, not just one.... then you flipped out and went on one of your anti-Deng diatribes. Deng has a pretty well rounded game... he can get open, he can shoot, he can rebound, he can run the floor, and he can defend. You may not like his contract... but he doesn't really qualify as "easily replaceable"... not to mention he's only 25 years old, isn't he? I realize you don't like Duke and that you have dreams of us fielding an all white lineup, but give it a rest.

(on edit: Casey beat me to it, so this post is a bit redundant)


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## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

Think what you want guys. I don't give a damn.


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

Dornado said:


> I know... Dynasty or bust? What? Wouldn't that imply that we gave up a dynasty to take this chance? It is a superstar league and we are going balls-out for some superstars. Two or three of my favorite Bulls (from a fan perspective) have been shipped out in the process (Tyrus and Hinrich... had a fondness for Noce and Sefolosha as well) but doing anything short of everything you can to get one of these big name free agents would be a huge mistake. I think if you end up with a better record it was worth it... if you win a title it was a great move, if you end up with a dynasty it was an icredible move, etc...


Yeah it's nice to see someone with their head on straight here. Unfortunateley I think some of our fans are trying to preemptiveley justify complaining for the next few years. 

People need to realize that this was the best possible chance to actually build a contender. Everything we have done up to this point has been smart. The fact that we are even in position to have a contender next year is amazing. We would have never had a shot nect year had our management not had the foresight and balls to put us here. The fact that we made the playoffs the last 2 years is even more impressive. I mean it's not like we even had to suffer through a couple terrible years like Knicks fans did. We have managed to have a pretty good and fun team to watch while setting ourselves up at a chance at amazing talent this year. Bulls fans should be super excited. Not whining.


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## taco_daddy (Jun 13, 2004)

Damn. Deng raped somebody's sister. People don't hold that kind of hostility for no reason.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

DaBabyBullz said:


> He's not the only one. All draft I was like come on and STFU about that douchebag already. Been sick of him for years already.


Yeah, I can understand some of the Cleveland fans getting pissed and stuff but I have heard people from other countries pretty much say that Lebron James is ruining the NBA. Now I dont agree that hes ruining the NBA (not even close) but I do think the whole Free Agency and his willingness to drag it out is wearing thin on a lot of NBA fans, here and abroad.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

Dynasty or Bust is a far fetched idea, but a Championship is a MUST. You dont spend the money and resources to acquire stars like these to just be a competitive team. The Goal is to win the NBA title, anything short of that is a failure. Not saying they need to win a title every year but they need to win at least 1 title with this group.


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## mvP to the Wee (Jul 14, 2007)

:djparty: :twave: :allhail:


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

thebizkit69u said:


> Yeah, I can understand some of the Cleveland fans getting pissed and stuff but I have heard people from other countries pretty much say that Lebron James is ruining the NBA. Now I dont agree that hes ruining the NBA (not even close) but I do think the whole Free Agency and his willingness to drag it out is wearing thin on a lot of NBA fans, here and abroad.


How is Lebron "dragging out Free Agency" when he can't even sign until July?



> Dynasty or Bust is a far fetched idea, but a Championship is a MUST. You dont spend the money and resources to acquire stars like these to just be a competitive team. The Goal is to win the NBA title, anything short of that is a failure. Not saying they need to win a title every year but they need to win at least 1 title with this group.


Look the only money we can spend is the money we have available _under_ the cap(well plus a bit for vet min guys). So any team that spends to the cap means they _have _to win a title? pretty much every team spends to the cap by the time the season starts and a fair amount of teams go over it. Only one team can win the title.

Now maybe you can say this in a couple of years when we might have to go way over the cap to resign Rose and Noah. But for now I don't see why some of you guys are desperate to turn this into a high risk, high reward type situation.

I feel like all we risked was a definate slightly above average team, with very limited upside(mostly dependant on Rose's development and Noah and Deng's health). For a chance at a bunch of all-stars that would vastly improve this team and depending on who we get unlimited upside. With the downside being a slightly above average team if we get no stars and just some roleplayer type guys. 

I don't really see how we could possibly come out of this Free agency in a worse position than had we resigned BG, TT, and kept Hinrich and the 17th pick. That would be like 27 mil on those three guys next year. Meaning we would still be spending to the cap. Is that team a contender? No way.
Where is the downside here? I guess I don't see it... can someone please explain a better way to build a contender?


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

caseyrh said:


> How is Lebron "dragging out Free Agency" when he can't even sign until July?


Obviously he cant sign until the first but he could atleast make it clear if hes going to sign back with his team or not. He knows the answer, heck hes probably known the answer since the end of his season, he enjoy's the drama and the attention.



> Look the only money we can spend is the money we have available _under_ the cap(well plus a bit for vet min guys). So any team that spends to the cap means they _have _to win a title? pretty much every team spends to the cap by the time the season starts and a fair amount of teams go over it. Only one team can win the title.


Using the cap money and locking up multiple players to LONG term Max contracts are 2 totally different situations. NOBODY signs 2 or more max contract players just to be competitive, they do it to win a title.



> Now maybe you can say this in a couple of years when we might have to go way over the cap to resign Rose and Noah. But for now I don't see why some of you guys are desperate to turn this into a high risk, high reward type situation.


When giving max contracts its almost alway's a high risk situation.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

caseyrh said:


> How is Lebron "dragging out Free Agency" when he can't even sign until July?
> 
> 
> Look the only money we can spend is the money we have available _under_ the cap(well plus a bit for vet min guys). So any team that spends to the cap means they _have _to win a title? pretty much every team spends to the cap by the time the season starts and a fair amount of teams go over it. Only one team can win the title.
> ...


thats 1 way of looking at it , another way is if this fails as the last 2 major ventures into free agency, its just another few years wasted while JR pocketed some $, just to shed these players as he has in the past with the last free agent failures, just to put it all in for the next free agent savior.

at some point this stuff has to work, gutting the team over and over again to obtain a savior that doesn't come is just bad management.


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

Da Grinch said:


> thats 1 way of looking at it , another way is if this fails as the last 2 major ventures into free agency, its just another few years wasted *while JR pocketed some $*, just to shed these players as he has in the past with the last free agent failures, just to put it all in for the next free agent savior.
> 
> at some point this stuff has to work, gutting the team over and over again to obtain a savior that doesn't come is just bad management.


I think we're paying Washington like 6 million dollars to take Hinrich from us... Reinsdorf is spending on the ball club, and has maintained that he'll do so if we've got a chance to field a contender.


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

Da Grinch said:


> thats 1 way of looking at it , another way is if this fails as the last 2 major ventures into free agency, its just another few years wasted while JR pocketed some $, just to shed these players as he has in the past with the last free agent failures, just to put it all in for the next free agent savior.
> 
> at some point this stuff has to work, gutting the team over and over again to obtain a savior that doesn't come is just bad management.


Look I agree that if we don't add a big time player it is a failure. But not a failure in strategy or a bad plan. Just a failure in the sense that we tried to get guys to come here and couldn't. 

And I hardly think we "gutted the team". I feel like we might have cut a few fingers off , maybe a toe or two.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

caseyrh said:


> Look I agree that if we don't add a big time player it is a failure. But not a failure in strategy or a bad plan. Just a failure in the sense that we tried to get guys to come here and couldn't.
> 
> And I hardly think we "gutted the team". I feel like we might have cut a few fingers off , maybe a toe or two.



Right. Rose, Noah (and Deng) are still here. This is hardly gutting.


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## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

You have 2 guys who are worth mentioning still on the team, Rose and to a much lesser extent Noah. That is a gutted team, period.


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## TwinkieTowers (Jul 16, 2002)

DaBabyBullz said:


> You have 2 guys who are worth mentioning still on the team, Rose and to a much lesser extent Noah. That is a gutted team, period.


It's not gutting if there aren't too many guts to begin with (Knicks) and/or if the guts are still there (Bulls).

I guess in your opinion, the Bulls' top three players last season, in terms of PER, are not the guts of the team. The Bulls, currently with 80% of the starting lineup still present, are a gutted team.


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## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

TwinkieTowers said:


> It's not gutting if there aren't too many guts to begin with (Knicks) and/or if the guts are still there (Bulls).
> 
> I guess in your opinion, the Bulls' top three players last season, in terms of PER, are not the guts of the team. The Bulls, currently with 80% of the starting lineup still present, are a gutted team.


Well you're wrong there on several counts. For starters, Tyrus and goatee boy that got traded to Milwaukee were starters at times. Hinrich then started. So 3 starters from last year are gone, as well as Brad Miller who also got a lot of burn and started some. So 4 of your top 8 guys are gone, dumped for cap space, along with a mid-1st pick with some quality left on board. Dung missed 15% of the season (28% of the last 2 seasons), which is pretty much par for the course for him. Noah is only good on D and rebounding, same with Taj, leaving you with only Rose as someone to actually build around. 

So you basically have one great player, 2 guys that are one dimensional and raw, and neither one can really play post D, and a sissy that is always hurt and almost guaranteed to miss 1 of every 6 games (last year), if not 1 of every 4-5 games (last 2 years averaged). The team was gutted last season with the trade of Salmons and Tyrus, which is part of the reason they didn't do anything late in the year.


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## fuzznuts (May 23, 2006)

how old is this guy? lol


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## TheDarkPrince (May 13, 2006)

DaBabyBullz said:


> You have 2 guys who are worth mentioning still on the team, Rose and to a much lesser extent Noah. That is a gutted team, period.


The Knicks are a gutted team. We still made the playoffs with this roster, minus Kirk and Brad Miller (who may come back).


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## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

Making the playoffs in the east isn't exactly an accomplishment. We've made the playoffs 5 of 6 years with a team that everybody complains about constantly. Basically if you're .500, and most of your games are against other teams in the scrub eastern conference, you make the playoffs. Still a crap team if you are barely .500 in a weak conference like that. Sure it's not Minnesota or some other talent-devoid team like that, but the Bulls weren't exactly loaded, and half the guy who got them to the playoffs are gone.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

This whole idea that so many teams are going to be downtrodden because they gutted their rosters is pretty silly. 

There's Lebron, Wade, Boozer, Johnson, Bosh, Amare, Gay, even Dirk to try and steal.

The Knicks and Nets have nowhere to go but up after last season. The Heat will get Wade back and at least one of those guys, it's South Beach. 

The only team with something to lose by not scoring major is Chicago. So no, it's really not as hopeless as it looks. All those teams will come back with something, it's just the ones that don't have Lebron or another super duo are going to be pissy they don't have a title contender. That's what you get for not building through the draft like the good teams on the comeup now.


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## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

Yeah I'd much rather have a home-grown team than one you "bought". That's why I like the Thunder so much. Not only did they draft guys I really liked, but every major player on the team was drafted by them (or at least an Aldrich deal where it was a draft day trade for rights to a rookie, so basically same thing).


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

An anonymous NBA exec ways in via the NYT:



> The LeBron James sweepstakes will kick off in Ohio on his home turf Thursday as five teams — the Chicago Bulls, the Miami Heat, the Knicks, the Nets and the Los Angeles Clippers — travel there in an attempt to woo James away from the Cleveland Cavaliers, an executive of one of the teams in the hunt said Saturday.
> 
> After trading away guard Kirk Hinrich, right, a seven-year veteran, the Chicago Bulls have $29.2 million under the salary cap.
> 
> ...


http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/27/s...all&adxnnlx=1277636556-Or9r1NXR6jSakwW6VQlAjA


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## BullNuts (Jan 18, 2010)

DaBabyBullz said:


> Yeah I'd much rather have a home-grown team than one you "bought". That's why I like the Thunder so much. Not only did they draft guys I really liked, but every major player on the team was drafted by them (or at least an Aldrich deal where it was a draft day trade for rights to a rookie, so basically same thing).


So you've enjoyed a team that has been pathetic to mediocre at best over the last 10 yrs because it wasn't bought? Were you upset when they brought Ben Wallace in?


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## Wynn (Jun 3, 2002)

DaBabyBullz said:


> Yeah I'd much rather have a home-grown team than one you "bought". That's why I like the Thunder so much. Not only did they draft guys I really liked, but every major player on the team was drafted by them (or at least an Aldrich deal where it was a draft day trade for rights to a rookie, so basically same thing).


The Thunders bought Sefolosha... the key to their success!


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## TheDarkPrince (May 13, 2006)

DaBabyBullz said:


> Yeah I'd much rather have a home-grown team than one you "bought". That's why I like the Thunder so much. Not only did they draft guys I really liked, but every major player on the team was drafted by them (or at least an Aldrich deal where it was a draft day trade for rights to a rookie, so basically same thing).


Trut me, if we do get Lebron and Bosh, and win 4-7 titles i'm willing to bet you wouldn't mind.


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## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

BullNuts said:


> So you've enjoyed a team that has been pathetic to mediocre at best over the last 10 yrs because it wasn't bought? Were you upset when they brought Ben Wallace in?


I never said that. I don't mind adding a guy here and there, but when you gut your team of everyone you drafted but 2 basically, then just go buy a bunch of guys, it seems kinda pathetic to me that you can't build a team on your own, gotta resort to buying players since you're a failure front office. Yeah, I was pissed, Benedict Wallace was a worthless POS.


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## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

Wynn said:


> The Thunders bought Sefolosha... the key to their success!


Haha, they didn't buy him, they traded their first rounder (Taj) for him.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

DaBabyBullz said:


> Yeah I'd much rather have a home-grown team than one you "bought". That's why I like the Thunder so much. Not only did they draft guys I really liked, but every major player on the team was drafted by them (or at least an Aldrich deal where it was a draft day trade for rights to a rookie, so basically same thing).


Do you know how hard it is to win a title with a home-grown team? You basically have to get lucky and draft a top 5 player in the league, and hope that player doesn't make you good enough right away to where you have terrible draft picks. Or hope that your team is unbelievable at drafting (Spurs with Parker/Ginobili). 

8 of the last 12 titles were bought as you say. Every team except the Spurs. Lakers bought Shaquille. Pistons bought everybody except Prince. Heat bought Shaquille, Payton, etc. Lakers bought Gasol, Odom, Artest, etc. Celtics bought Garnett and Allen. 

You simply cannot rely on the draft alone to win titles. The Thunder might be a rare case, but they're still a ways away from title contention, and they lucked into Durant being an absolute stud.

Bulls will have no chance to get someone that good from the draft anytime soon.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

I honestly can't believe the Bulls are frontrunners to get James (and Bosh) and Bulls fans are complaining about getting rid of guys like Hinrich to make room. It's absolutely ridiculous.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

In a perfect world, yeah I'd rather see a home grown team win the Bulls titles.

However, how often does that really happen?

The Lakers have won 5 titles in the past 10 years in LARGE part to critical trades and FA signings. Shaquille O'Neal left Orlando in the dust to sign with LA and that's what ultimately landed them a 3-peat. Then they go and snag Pau Gasol for another couple titles.

The Spurs with Duncan, Parker, and Ginobili are more the exception in today's NBA.

The Pistons won a title with only 1 draftee in their starting five (Prince). The other four were due to trades and FA signings.

The Celtics' only home grown player was Paul Pierce. Trading for Garnett and Allen were no different than what the Bulls are trying to do by signing LBJ and others.


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## PD (Sep 10, 2004)

A win is a win. A title is a title. If the Bulls could bring home 5 titles, I would not care which methodology they used. No team in the NBA ever won a title with just their draftees.


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

Sir Patchwork said:


> I honestly can't believe the Bulls are frontrunners to get James (and Bosh) and Bulls fans are complaining about getting rid of guys like Hinrich to make room. It's absolutely ridiculous.


Seriously. I am confused by this as well.


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## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

Sir Patchwork said:


> Do you know how hard it is to win a title with a home-grown team? You basically have to get lucky and draft a top 5 player in the league, and hope that player doesn't make you good enough right away to where you have terrible draft picks. Or hope that your team is unbelievable at drafting (Spurs with Parker/Ginobili).


Well, we got Rose, and if not for the RETARDED rule keeping high schoolers from coming out, we'd have Durant too most likely. Granted if we had Durant, we probably wouldn't have Rose, but I'll take Durant any day. 



> 8 of the last 12 titles were bought as you say. Every team except the Spurs. Lakers bought Shaquille. Pistons bought everybody except Prince. Heat bought Shaquille, Payton, etc. Lakers bought Gasol, Odom, Artest, etc. Celtics bought Garnett and Allen.


Yeah and there's also a reason why I haven't watched most of those finals. The Lakers are exactly why I hate "buying" players. BTW, it's not buying if you traded for them, so Garnett and Allen don't count, as they were traded for. Trading for players means you actually did something right, rather than just be the team that guys want to go to, giving you an unfair advantage (Lakers). 



> You simply cannot rely on the draft alone to win titles. The Thunder might be a rare case, but they're still a ways away from title contention, and they lucked into Durant being an absolute stud.


The Bulls basically did it with the KEY pieces being Jordan and Pippen. The Jazz would've with Stockton and Malone, if not for Jordan. Same with the Rockets with their great teams back then (before they got Drexler, Pip and Barkley). But their key guy was drafted by them. 



> Bulls will have no chance to get someone that good from the draft anytime soon.


It's not likely no. But with Rose to build around, they could've landed a max FA even without dumping Kirk and the 1st, and at least then would've had a sure thing, rather than a completely bought (except for Rose and Noah, Dung doesn't count) team, if they happen to land guys worthy of the contracts.


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## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

yodurk said:


> The Celtics' only home grown player was Paul Pierce. Trading for Garnett and Allen were no different than what the Bulls are trying to do by signing LBJ and others.


Actually it is different, because when you make trades, that is the FO pulling off wise moves. When you do something like this, where you ****can your whole roster and sign big names, that is just having the right city and DRose to lure them in. It's an unfair advantage basically, and usually the teams in NY and LA are the winners due to it, and it ruins sports. Big money or a flashy city shouldn't dictate titles, but that's exactly what it does in every sport but the NFL. Hard cap should be in place like in the NFL.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

Another exec says that Bosh-to-Miami has been in the works for a while now, and that's where he's going to go.

I'd expect LeBron in Chicago, but Bosh could be Chicago, Miami or LA.


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## taco_daddy (Jun 13, 2004)

Sir Patchwork said:


> I honestly can't believe the Bulls are frontrunners to get James (and Bosh) and Bulls fans are complaining about getting rid of guys like Hinrich to make room. It's absolutely ridiculous.


No, DaBabyBullz is complaining. The rest of us are ecstatic.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

DaBabyBullz said:


> Actually it is different, because when you make trades, that is the FO pulling off wise moves. When you do something like this, where you ****can your whole roster and sign big names, that is just having the right city and DRose to lure them in. It's an unfair advantage basically, and usually the teams in NY and LA are the winners due to it, and it ruins sports. Big money or a flashy city shouldn't dictate titles, but that's exactly what it does in every sport but the NFL. Hard cap should be in place like in the NFL.



If you had a hard cap, you'd have lots of Blackhawks-like situations where good teams are forced to cut their own players just to save salary. It would be the opposite of incentivizing "home-grown" teams.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

It's crazy sometimes to take a step back and think about where the Bulls are. We've seen this free agency class coming for a couple years now. For almost that whole time, it's been more or less accepted that the Bulls had no chance to land LeBron. All the reporting was "Well, they'll do their due diligence and call LeBron's people, they'll move on to more realistic candidates" like Joe Johnson, et al. This was the story until basically the Cavs got knocked out of the playoffs weeks ago and LeBron reportedly phoned Derrick. It's amazing that the Bulls are now somehow frontrunners in all this business. It's still a long way off to signing LeBron, but this offseason is a hell of a lot more interesting than I would have expected. 

While I'm not totally convinced LeBron is coming, obviously the Bulls must believe in their chances, or they wouldn't have dealt Kirk purely for cap space, one would think. I hope their self-assessment is true.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

Sir Patchwork said:


> Do you know how hard it is to win a title with a home-grown team? You basically have to get lucky and draft a top 5 player in the league, and hope that player doesn't make you good enough right away to where you have terrible draft picks. Or hope that your team is unbelievable at drafting (Spurs with Parker/Ginobili).
> 
> 8 of the last 12 titles were bought as you say. Every team except the Spurs. Lakers bought Shaquille. Pistons bought everybody except Prince. Heat bought Shaquille, Payton, etc. Lakers bought Gasol, Odom, Artest, etc. Celtics bought Garnett and Allen.
> 
> ...


I say it's the most sensible strategy because if your team is garbage and consistently has top 5-10 picks, how could you not find the foundation for your team in there?


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

Dre™ said:


> I say it's the most sensible strategy because if your team is garbage and consistently has top 5-10 picks, how could you not find the foundation for your team in there?


The most sound strategy is using all available resources, including free agency and the draft. If you decide to try to win with exclusively one or the other, you will fail.


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## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

jnrjr79 said:


> If you had a hard cap, you'd have lots of Blackhawks-like situations where good teams are forced to cut their own players just to save salary. It would be the opposite of incentivizing "home-grown" teams.


Well it sure is funny how it is working in the NFL, you know, the king of professional sports in the world. It makes teams prioritize guys, and not hand out foolish contracts like the Bulls do to their role players, that then lead to them getting dumped a few years later to avoid the luxury tax. It makes all teams play by the same set of rules, more or less, rather than a few really rich, big spenders, like Cuban, Knicks, etc, have a huge pay roll and buy players that most teams can't/won't afford to pay.


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## PD (Sep 10, 2004)

If James did decide to play for the Bulls, I wonder if the Cavs would consider a sign and trade: James and Mo Williams for Deng and a future 1st.


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

PD said:


> If James did decide to play for the Bulls, I wonder if the Cavs would consider a sign and trade: James and Mo Williams for Deng and a future 1st.


why would we need mo williams?


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

caseyrh said:


> why would we need mo williams?


We dont but they would sure love to get rid of him to free up some cap space, even without Lebron James they are not in a great cap situation. I know its probably not possible but could you imagine the Cav's ever paying the luxury tax with Deng, Mo and Jamison as your star attractions lol.


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

thebizkit69u said:


> We dont but they would sure love to get rid of him to free up some cap space, even without Lebron James they are not in a great cap situation. I know its probably not possible but could you imagine the Cav's ever paying the luxury tax with Deng, Mo and Jamison as your star attractions lol.


Mo Williams isn't really on a bad contract. About 18 mil over the next 2 years. Basically 9 mil per.

I would say the Cavs would probably be much more interested in getting rid of Jamisons contract. And Jamison would be a better fit for us. Although not perfect. Plus Jamison only has 2 more years left on his contract. So right when Rose would be due for a new contract. 


Now I am sure that would have a lot to do with what Lebron thinks of Jamison. But we could do that deal. Bring in Lebron and Jamison and still have about 10 mil left over to address shooting guard + depth. Say Reddick, Duhon, Asik.

Rose
Reddick
Lebron
Jamison
Noah

Bench:
Duhon
JJ
Gibson
Asik
Bouldin


Looks pretty solid to me. And it wouldn't require us being fortunate enough to sign Boah and Lebron.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

DaBabyBullz said:


> Well it sure is funny how it is working in the NFL, you know, the king of professional sports in the world. It makes teams prioritize guys, and not hand out foolish contracts like the Bulls do to their role players, that then lead to them getting dumped a few years later to avoid the luxury tax. It makes all teams play by the same set of rules, more or less, rather than a few really rich, big spenders, like Cuban, Knicks, etc, have a huge pay roll and buy players that most teams can't/won't afford to pay.



You must be watching a different league than I am. The Patriots, for instance, consistently have to cut their veteran players and sign cheaper free agents (which is evil, remember?) due to cap constraints.


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## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

jnrjr79 said:


> You must be watching a different league than I am. The Patriots, for instance, consistently have to cut their veteran players and sign cheaper free agents (which is evil, remember?) due to cap constraints.


The Cheatriots are like that because they sign a bunch of old free agents, cuz they SUCK at drafting. They haven't won crap since they got caught cheating, and those "wins" are null and void in my book too. Their whole problem, is the ego of that scumbag coach who thinks he can sign has-beens, and keep deferring draft picks to next year. Look at that roster, almost completely devoid of any real talent they drafted, and now one of the few, Mankins, is wanting traded since they're cheap. 

My example, is from the flagship of the NFL, the Steelers. They build almost exclusively through the draft, and have to pick and choose who to resign. They only fill a hole here and there with a mid-tier FA. For example, they let Joey Porter and Alan Faneca walk in FA, and resigned a bunch of other younger/cheaper guys on lesser contracts, but the STARS, Polamalu and Roethlisberger, were given big deals and retained long-term. 

But one thing about the NFL's system, is it prohibits crap like the Lakers and the Yankees, which is why it is by far the best system. It will be near perfect when they get a rookie salary cap implemented (that's the one area the NBA is superior).


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## Wynn (Jun 3, 2002)

DaBabyBullz said:


> Actually it is different, because when you make trades, that is the FO pulling off wise moves. When you do something like this, where you ****can your whole roster and sign big names, that is just having the right city and DRose to lure them in. It's an unfair advantage basically, and usually the teams in NY and LA are the winners due to it, and it ruins sports. Big money or a flashy city shouldn't dictate titles, but that's exactly what it does in every sport but the NFL. Hard cap should be in place like in the NFL.


Are you seriously using the NFL as an example of a home-grown group of teams?!?!


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

NFL rosters are so different from NBA rosters anyway... this thread needs to find its way back on topic...




> It's believed that Bosh will also meet face-to-face with the Chicago Bulls soon after free agency officially commences at 12:01 a.m. Thursday, but it remains to be seen if Wade -- a Chicago native who was recently critical of the Bulls' organization -- intends to huddle with the Bulls.
> 
> Both Bosh and Wade are represented by the same agent: Chicago-based Henry Thomas.


http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/nba/news/story?id=5334895


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## AnaMayShun (Jun 22, 2002)

Man, all these source keep saying different things. I read earlier that Bosh will be in NY at 1201. I also read that teams will have to interview Bosh in California.
I can't wait til the first, so I can get some real info instead of all these hunches.


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## bullsger (Jan 14, 2003)

Dornado said:


> Take this for what it is worth, from Yahoo:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I believe this when both players signed contracts with the Bulls. Not earlier...


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## Pay Ton (Apr 18, 2003)

DaBabyBullz said:


> *The Cheatriots *are like that because they sign a bunch of old free agents, cuz they SUCK at drafting.


The Cheatriots? Come on...you can do better.


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## narek (Jul 29, 2005)

AnaMayShun said:


> Man, all these source keep saying different things. I read earlier that Bosh will be in NY at 1201. I also read that teams will have to interview Bosh in California.
> I can't wait til the first, so I can get some real info instead of all these hunches.


And Chuck Swirsky tweeted that Stephen A Smith said Bosh,James and Wade will all end up in Miami. 

It's the days of speculation.


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## bullsger (Jan 14, 2003)

narek said:


> And Chuck Swirsky tweeted that Stephen A Smith said Bosh,James and Wade will all end up in Miami.
> 
> It's the days of speculation.


Hopefully for the Bulls is that only speculation.


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## TheDarkPrince (May 13, 2006)

bullsger said:


> Hopefully for the Bulls is that only speculation.


No way does Bosh, Wade and Lebron end up on the same team. Won't be nearly enough touches for someone on a team like that. So how long until Bron and Wade start to bunt heads over whose team it is?


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## bullsger (Jan 14, 2003)

TheDarkPrince said:


> No way does Bosh, Wade and Lebron end up on the same team. Won't be nearly enough touches for someone on a team like that. So how long until Bron and Wade start to bunt heads over whose team it is?


So you thinking that there is no way too for Rose, Bosh and LeBron?


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## TheDarkPrince (May 13, 2006)

bullsger said:


> So you thinking that there is no way too for Rose, Bosh and LeBron?


I think Rose is far more comfortable sliding into the 3rd option on a team then Wade, Lebron or Bosh.


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## Good Hope (Nov 27, 2002)

I like this twist to the story from Sam Smith. How about Wade pulling a powerplay on Lebron, offering himself and Bosh to Chicago to freeze out Lebron and secure for himself a place on the new powerhouse team of the East?

Yeesh!



> This has not gone unnoticed only by media and fans, but by the free agents themselves. Because, if you believe them, only one team can win, and you don’t want to be buried on one that cannot with little chance of passing a super team.
> 
> Say the Bulls were able to sign LeBron and Chris Bosh. Well, Orlando still has Dwight Howard and a 60-win cast. You could find yourself playing out your career as a perennial also ran.
> 
> ...


The thing about Wade not needing the ball is a little questionable, I suppose, but Wade does fit better with the current roster.


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## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

When I'm evaluating a roster and huge FA moves, I don't factor in how Deng will fit. I factor in the fit with Rose and Noah, the 2 better players that actually make most of the games. You get LeBron if you can get him, regardless of Deng or not. You don't settle for an old busted up Wade instead, just because of Deng. I also think that LeBron is a better fit with Rose than Wade personally. All 3 dominate the ball, but LeBron has better slashing ability and a size advantage, instead of a disadvantage like Wade and Wade will soon deteriorate due to injuries and size deficiencies.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

Rose and Wade are redundant where Lebron and Rose aren't. Plus it's Sam Smith.


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## mvP to the Wee (Jul 14, 2007)

Ok.... Doug Thonus is reporting LBJ is signing with the Bulls by July 3rd...............


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

P to the Wee said:


> Ok.... Doug Thonus is reporting LBJ is signing with the Bulls by July 3rd...............





Indeed: http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/chi...to-me-says-lebron-to-chicago-by-july-3rd.html



> A source who's provided accurate information to me in the past has told me that LeBron James will agree to terms with the Bulls by July 3rd after meeting with other teams.
> 
> How serious to take this? I'm wondering the same thing myself. If I thought it was completely dismissible I certainly wouldn't post it just to get ridiculed as an attention whore for years, but the amount of false rumors I've heard (even from good sources) is remarkably high.
> 
> So in short, I'm not attempting to stake my claim on this one. I don't consider myself some great purveyor of inside sources and information by any stretch. Just passing along something I've heard.


For those of you who don't know Doug Thonus he has some history on this message board and is pretty well respected - he tries to temper things a little in his article, but I don't think he'd have passed it on unless the source was somewhat trustworthy. He says it was a "basketball person" and not another reporter, which I found interesting.

I don't know if my ticker can take this free agency stuff anymore...


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

I'm just waiting for the "my sources tell me Lebron is set to sign with Olympiakos for 400 million" report.


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

Dre™;6307158 said:


> I'm just waiting for the "my sources tell me Lebron is set to sign with Olympiakos for 400 million" report.


Well... I heard it from you... you seem like a source... here goes:

"A source with knowledge of sources who have knowledge of other sources has informed me that rumors persist about Lebron James signing with Olympiakos for $400 million"

see... I even have a link:

http://www.basketballforum.com/chic...-wide-wes-exec-lebron-bosh-chicago-bound.html


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

I didn't want to say anything but my source told me he'd do a backflip off the United Center if Lebron didn't sign over there, because "it's so far beyond a done deal the only thing missing is Lebron signing his last name on the contract" :yes:


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## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

P to the Wee said:


> Ok.... Doug Thonus is reporting LBJ is signing with the Bulls by July 3rd...............


Can't sign until the 9th. Sorry.


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## mvP to the Wee (Jul 14, 2007)

Hyperion said:


> Can't sign until the 9th. Sorry.


The 8th. Big difference, he's gonna verbally agree.


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## taco_daddy (Jun 13, 2004)

Tell me this isn't the most exciting off season the Bulls have seen since the departure of Scottie Pippen. :champagne: :yay: :yes: :cheers:

Whatever happens, it will be fun up until the final names are finalized. Let's hope & pray for the best of best possible outcomes!

Or my name isn't Taco Daddy!


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## calabreseboy (Nov 17, 2004)

What's going to happen if none of James, Bosh, Wade and Johnson sign with us? Will the universe implode?


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## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

We better get Gay and Lee/Stoudemire in that event lol.


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