# Who will be the stronger team next year? Knicks vs. Nets (Merged)



## 0oh_S0o_FreSh!!

I think we can make a run at the games we play against the Nets.. who do u think will win the series?



I think we will win it, its just a feeling...




if the hawks can do it, we can as well


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## ToddMacCulloch11

*Re: Who will be the stronger team next year? Knicks vs. Nets*

At this point, I think the Nets are the better team.

But there are things with each team that are going to be interesting, ie how the Knicks respond to Isiah, how the Nets youth movement works out, development of the young players on each team, etc.

That being said, I'd love for the Nets and Knicks to have a good rivalry. It always seems that when one team is good, the other is bad (knicks in the 90's, Nets in the 2000s)


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## KVIP112

*Re: Who will be the stronger team next year? Knicks vs. Nets*

the nets are a better team. they will most likely win the division. second place is a toss up with the other 4 teams. i think the knicks will make the playoffs though.


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## bball2223

*Re: Who will be the stronger team next year? Knicks vs. Nets*

Nets will win the division but the series could be a toss up. I will be biased and say the Knicks win the series. Both teams should make the playoffs, but it should be a good race for the top 2 spots in the Atlantic division.


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## mjm1

*Re: Who will be the stronger team next year? Knicks vs. Nets*

There has been a thread like this every season for the past 5 years.


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## PFortyy

*Re: Who will be the stronger team next year? Knicks vs. Nets*

nets all the way


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## MARCUSWILLIAMSRULES

*Re: Who will be the stronger team next year? Knicks vs. Nets*

knicks are bad very not good at all in series of any kind!!!


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## Da Grinch

*Re: Who will be the stronger team next year? Knicks vs. Nets*

in a head to head match up the knicks match up very well against the nets .

curry vs. collins 
frye vs. krstic 
jjeff vs. rjeff
francis vs. carter
marbury vs. kidd

and the bench nate/JC/Qrich/jalen rose/ malik rose/ mo taylor/ jerome james / renaldo balkman / mardy collins.

against marcus williams / josh boone / cliff robinson /mcinnis/illic/ a.wright/nachbar/mikki moore

after the season reasonably the knicks could win a series against them...i wouldn't give them much of a chance today.

as it is now the knicks are unproven ,the nets are a known quantity they won 49 games last year and are returning basically the same team. i believe the knicks are a close to 40 win team and the nets are a mid to low 40's win team ...that makes the nets stronger.


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## Jizzy

*Re: Who will be the stronger team next year? Knicks vs. Nets*



Da Grinch said:


> in a head to head match up the knicks match up very well against the nets .
> 
> curry vs. collins
> frye vs. krstic
> jjeff vs. rjeff
> francis vs. carter
> marbury vs. kidd
> 
> and the bench nate/JC/Qrich/jalen rose/ malik rose/ mo taylor/ jerome james / renaldo balkman / mardy collins.
> 
> against marcus williams / josh boone / cliff robinson /mcinnis/illic/ a.wright/nachbar/mikki moore
> 
> after the season reasonably the knicks could win a series against them...i wouldn't give them much of a chance today.
> 
> as it is now the knicks are unproven ,the nets are a known quantity they won 49 games last year and are returning basically the same team. i believe the knicks are a close to 40 win team and the nets are a mid to low 40's win team ...that makes the nets stronger.


The Nets competely re-amped the roster and installed a new, younger, more youthful bench. They won 49 games (which should have been in the 50s if they had not rested the starters the last couple of games) without a bench. The Knicks have basically the same roster as last year and you should know by know, matchups hardly tell the story for the Knicks.


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## Real

*Re: Who will be the stronger team next year? Knicks vs. Nets*



Da Grinch said:


> in a head to head match up the knicks match up very well against the nets .
> 
> curry vs. collins
> frye vs. krstic
> jjeff vs. rjeff
> francis vs. carter
> marbury vs. kidd


Kidd, Carter, and RJ win those matchups. I'd call Frye vs. Nenad as a draw for now. But Nenad not playing international basketball in the offseason for the first time in his career, will probably equal the best year of Nenad's young career. Frye needs to come in healthy, and improve defensively. 



> and the bench nate/JC/Qrich/jalen rose/ malik rose/ mo taylor/ jerome james / renaldo balkman / mardy collins.
> 
> against marcus williams / josh boone / cliff robinson /mcinnis/illic/ a.wright/nachbar/mikki moore


McInnis will not play with the Nets. By october he'll be in overseas trying to learn a foreign language. Replace him with Eddie House, who the Nets just signed days ago.

The first four off the bench for the Knicks can help, if Isiah can get these guys to fit into the new system. Nate has to play a bit more discliplined. I like Crawford, QRich can help if he can get healthy. Rose is very good if he comes off the bench.

Marcus Williams, Cliff, Wright, House, Boki, and Mikki will probably have the best chance to get off the bench for the Nets. Marcus will probably help immediately and backup Kidd, Cliff will help as always, House provides shooting, Boki will probably be given a chance, he has a shot at being a good weapon off the bench. Wright has been working non-stop this offseason working on his game, he showed shades of being able to contribute last year in limited minutes, he will be given a chance to prove himself. Mikki fits perfectly in what the Nets are trying to do, play a more uptempo style of basketball, while still keeping in tact one of the league's top defenses. 

No gaurentees, but the Nets bench has very promising potental. I expect Cliff, House, and MWill to help immediately, however.



> after the season reasonably the knicks could win a series against them...i wouldn't give them much of a chance today.
> 
> as it is now the knicks are unproven ,the nets are a known quantity they won 49 games last year and are returning basically the same team. i believe the knicks are a close to 40 win team and the nets are a mid to low 40's win team ...that makes the nets stronger.


You're right on some points but off-base on this, the Nets are not a mid to low 40's team, and this is not the same team as last year. This team won close to 50 games (we have the Knicks to blame for 49 :biggrin: ) without a bench, and while battling inconsistency the entire year. Kidd, Carter, and Jefferson have all a year under their belts of playing together, Nenad is going to get better as I said, and Jason Collins will be given time to rest his knees.The bench is retooled providing athleticism and guys being able to contribute while still being able to go young. This team I believe has gotten better, and hopefully will be able to contend for the East crown once again. I expect a 50 + win season for the Nets. 

The Knicks ability to compete with the Nets, and contend for the playoffs, depends on a number of factors, such as Isiah's coaching ability, Marbury and Francis playing together, QRich, JC, and Rose being able to come off the bench and contribute, the second-year players of Lee, Robinson, and Frye taking the next step up, etc. They have potental, but we won't know until the season starts.


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## kconn61686

*Re: Who will be the stronger team next year? Knicks vs. Nets*

basketball is a game where you can't just throw out position by position ranking. its a team game that incorporates team passing, team defense, team chemistry, etc. the knicks won 23 games last year, the nets 49. unless the knicks get duncan and nash, they wont compete with NJ. not to mention, players like eddy curry and stephon marbury dont make a team better. they are individual players with limited impact on the game OUTSIDE of their own stats. last year im sure people would have said in a head-to-head matchup, the knicks first 8 is better than memphis' top 8. yet the griz won 49 in a loaded western conference to the knicks 23.

what is kidd's record vs. new york, something like 23-5?


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## Jizzy

*Re: Who will be the stronger team next year? Knicks vs. Nets*



kconn61686 said:


> basketball is a game where you can't just throw out position by position ranking. its a team game that incorporates team passing, team defense, team chemistry, etc. the knicks won 23 games last year, the nets 49. unless the knicks get duncan and nash, they wont compete with NJ. not to mention, players like eddy curry and stephon marbury dont make a team better. they are individual players with limited impact on the game OUTSIDE of their own stats. last year im sure people would have said in a head-to-head matchup, the knicks first 8 is better than memphis' top 8. yet the griz won 49 in a loaded western conference to the knicks 23.
> 
> what is kidd's record vs. new york, something like 23-5?



Exactly, if you judge this on one vs. one matchups, then the Knicks would be title contenders. Basketball is way more then comparing players, it's a team game.


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## Kiyaman

*Re: Who will be the stronger team next year? Knicks vs. Nets*



kconn61686 said:


> basketball is a game where you can't just throw out position by position ranking. its a team game that incorporates team passing, team defense, team chemistry, etc. the knicks won 23 games last year, the nets 49. unless the knicks get duncan and nash, they wont compete with NJ. not to mention, players like eddy curry and stephon marbury dont make a team better. they are individual players with limited impact on the game OUTSIDE of their own stats. last year im sure people would have said in a head-to-head matchup, the knicks first 8 is better than memphis' top 8. yet the griz won 49 in a loaded western conference to the knicks 23.
> 
> what is kidd's record vs. new york, something like 23-5?



*I'm new in this Forum so I like to say a good wuzup to everyone.* 

I'm an OLE-Knick-Net Fan from when both were in New York fighting over the fan base with exciting players. 

I always like Kidd style in the NBA but I like it even more with this Nets Team. 
Somehow this NETS Team can not get a strong bench or some bench players to keep up with Kidds style of play. Every decent backup PG the Nets have seem to get away from them. 
The NETS are still missing that Kenyon Martin PF or Center in their Frontcourt to fill their void. 

The Knicks on the other hand are forfilled in every needed position, with players that been together since last season masacre of Media-Coach vs Knick-Players. 
Since the arrival of Isiah Thomas to New York practically 90% of the Knick-Fans wanted Isiah Thomas to coach the Knicks when he arrived. 
The 2006-7 Season President/Coach Isiah Thomas will be at the Helm of everything with at least eleven (11) Knick-Players fighting with him to keep his job and still be their boss over everything. 
Do the Knicks have talent on their Roster? Do the Knicks have a good Coaching Staff for their roster? Did the Players and Coaching staff learn anything from last season? 

*The Knicks is the Suprise Sleeper this season in the NBA, because of President/Coach Isiah Thomas and his Homeboy Marbury & Jalen Rose. 
The Knicks have the strongest Bench in the Atlantic Division. If they were smart they would add Francis to that bench for his explosiveness on oponents bench players.* 

So I would not be so quick to judge the "BIG-3" vs the Knicks so soon. 
It wont be Marbury vs Kidd, it would be more like Kidd vs Marbury/Francis/Nate with Isiah Coaching. :clap: :clap: :clap:


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## USSKittyHawk

*Re: Who will be the stronger team next year? Knicks vs. Nets*



Kiyaman said:


> *I'm new in this Forum so I like to say a good wuzup to everyone.*


Welcome to the boards Kiya I hope you have fun debating about Knicks basketball! :cheers:


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## Da Grinch

*Re: Who will be the stronger team next year? Knicks vs. Nets*

every team has its potential I am merely going on whats reasonably expected .

the nets were extremely healthy last season . their big 4 missed 11 games last season in total ..with 5 of those in the last 2 games, thats not common and shouldn't be expected , not with these guys at least.

in the previous 2 seasons kidd missed over 30 games alone. 

rjeff missed 49 games the previous season 

and vince in his last 4 seasons with the raptors he avg. less than 50 games a season.

krstic has been pretty healthy playing 75 and 80 games , he is the one I would count on to stay very healthy , the rest is a crapshoot.

even fully healthy last season the nets had flaws , they couldn't score well they were the 21st ranked offensive team, only slightly better than the knicks...i dont see that changing much for the nets, if anything they will likely be worse, just because kidd will be a year older and he is the engine that makes them go, just like they were the 2nd best defensive team , i dont see reason for much of a change there either .

the nets supposedly had a great vet bench last season, players dont always play to expectations, only cliff robinson and vaughn really did what was expected of them , antione wright , mcinnis , plananic, padgett and lamond murray were all way below expectations, if the nets didn't enjoy such great health out of their top 4, 49 wins were impossible.

who did the nets add in the offseason that is supposed to be better than mcinnis was supposed to be last season? or even murray, 

eventually marcus williams, josh boone , wright and ilic, but how much of an impact are they realistically supposed to provide this season?

for the most part i dont see the nets adding to their team in a way that will make it assumable they will win more every team makes improvements to their team and assumes it will win more , i think the nets did less than most ...add that to I believe their health will revert back to normal and that accounts for the slide to low to mid 40's , its not like the nets are so removed from that kind of a season they had it 2 years ago.


conversely the knicks should be much better.

as a team they were bad on both ends 23rd on offense, 27th on defense , they might not be a lot better on defense , they should be at least marginally better, but they should care and if they dont care Thomas will most likely only the ones who do until the rest fall in line, the knicks literally have enough players that no one is irreplacable , and his history is that he cares about defense 1st he to the dismay of many pacer fans would finish games with jamison brewer and al harrington instead of tinsley and jalen rose for purely defensive reasons.

the knicks have at least 1 defender at every position so I think its probably going to be a situation where people are constantly 2nd guessing his decisions because big time scorers aren't playing as much as expected from marbury to curry .

also Thomas has said he will mend his offense to fit the players instead of making them play a way they aren't comfortable, and since he is basically forced to be coach to keep his GM job I think he will do everything he can to win games. 

if they wind up a good offense team and a bad defensive one they will most likely be an average team or close to it, but they have the potential to good on both sides of the ball and have enough players who have at times been good defenders, its a matter of who plays for him... i think he'll be successful in getting them to put out the effort.


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## Truknicksfan

*Re: Who will be the stronger team next year? Knicks vs. Nets*

Simple and to the point, heres my one word answer,

>>Nets.


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## kconn61686

*Re: Who will be the stronger team next year? Knicks vs. Nets*

isiah thomas is replacing a HOF coach, so the knicks should be better? i just cant stop laughing at this soap opera that continues to get worse? they added 3 players this offseason, and its just a matter of time before chemistry blows up and someone complains about thier lack of playing time. the knicks are 31 wins TOPS and back to the lottery. isiah, marbury, crawford, curry, nate, and francis can go on the and 1 tour b/c their days in the NBA are becoming very laughable.


meanwhile, the nets have a real leader with a real stars and role players along with one of the hardest working coaches in the league. get used to seeing them atop the atlantic for years to come. great mix of youth and stars.


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## Truknicksfan

*Re: Who will be the stronger team next year? Knicks vs. Nets*



> isiah thomas is replacing a HOF coach, so the knicks should be better? i just cant stop laughing at this soap opera that continues to get worse? they added 3 players this offseason, and its just a matter of time before chemistry blows up and someone complains about thier lack of playing time. the knicks are 31 wins TOPS and back to the lottery. isiah, marbury, crawford, curry, nate, and francis can go on the and 1 tour b/c their days in the NBA are becoming very laughable.
> 
> 
> meanwhile, the nets have a real leader with a real stars and role players along with one of the hardest working coaches in the league. get used to seeing them atop the atlantic for years to come. great mix of youth and stars.


A totaly non bias, knows what he is talking about post right there.......NOT. The so called HOF coach used like 43 different starting lineups last year. How many games would u expect a team with that many lineups to win there buddy? Yeah so they added 3 players, all which can play off the ball and is what this team needs...defense and being able to play off the ball, this wont help the team?? So yes Isiah will help the team, the new players will help the team, and if anyone complains about playing time Isiah will bench them and they wont be able to do a darn thing since he is the GM. Yep, that pretty much covers your whole post. Again, Im not saying that the Knicks are going to do anything special, but please keep the garbage post in the Nets forum if you feel you have to post them.


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## USSKittyHawk

*Re: Who will be the stronger team next year? Knicks vs. Nets*



Truknicksfan said:


> Again, Im not saying that the Knicks are going to do anything special, but please keep the garbage post in the Nets forum if you feel you have to post them.


Hey now that's not a garbage post, it's just a perfect display of showing how much of a









they really are.


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## Gotham2krazy

*Re: Who will be the stronger team next year? Knicks vs. Nets*

We have the better roster, but not the best PG. I say we could take'em 3-1. Our bench outmatches the best of teams.


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## GrandKenyon6

*Re: Who will be the stronger team next year? Knicks vs. Nets*



Kitty said:


> Hey now that's not a garbage post, it's just a perfect display of showing how much of a
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> they really are.


Man I used to have a bunch of those. I liked the ones with the jewels as the belly buttons.


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## kconn61686

*Re: Who will be the stronger team next year? Knicks vs. Nets*



> A totaly non bias, knows what he is talking about post right there.......NOT. The so called HOF coach used like 43 different starting lineups last year. How many games would u expect a team with that many lineups to win there buddy? Yeah so they added 3 players, all which can play off the ball and is what this team needs...defense and being able to play off the ball, this wont help the team?? So yes Isiah will help the team, the new players will help the team, and if anyone complains about playing time Isiah will bench them and they wont be able to do a darn thing since he is the GM. Yep, that pretty much covers your whole post. Again, Im not saying that the Knicks are going to do anything special, but please keep the garbage post in the Nets forum if you feel you have to post them.



larry brown may have used all those lineups, but thats because he couldnt find one single player on his roster that knew how to play the right way. see, larry knows how to play the right way, and while he may have made a mockery of the rotations, he just exposed that the knicks are a 33 win team at max. so instead they won 23, no big deal. isiah goes after this year, too bad he cant take "starbury" with him. [contract]


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## Truknicksfan

*Re: Who will be the stronger team next year? Knicks vs. Nets*



> larry brown may have used all those lineups, but thats because he couldnt find one single player on his roster that knew how to play the right way. see, larry knows how to play the right way, and while he may have made a mockery of the rotations, he just exposed that the knicks are a 33 win team at max. so instead they won 23, no big deal. isiah goes after this year, too bad he cant take "starbury" with him. [contract]


He found David Lee, who could play the right way, then after a 6 game win streak took him out of the starting lineup. I dont care if none of them knew how to play, that many starting lineups is not accecptable. Only a fool would try to justify that many lineups. Also you said that they were a 31 win team tops in your last post and now its 33, make up your mind. I said it once and ill say it again keep your garbage post in the Nets forum if you need to post them.


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## Pain5155

*Re: Who will be the stronger team next year? Knicks vs. Nets*

nets hands down. How can u compare the trio of j-kidd, VC, and jefferson to the knicks starting 5.


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## kconn61686

*Re: Who will be the stronger team next year? Knicks vs. Nets*



> Also you said that they were a 31 win team tops in your last post and now its 33, make up your mind


um ok, the knicks are a 31 win team tops. send the pick over to chicago and good nite


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## USSKittyHawk

*Re: Who will be the stronger team next year? Knicks vs. Nets*



kconn61686 said:


> um ok, the knicks are a 31 win team tops. send the pick over to chicago and good nite


Check your PM.


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## ghoti

*Re: Who will be the stronger team next year? Knicks vs. Nets*



Net2 said:


> I'd call Frye vs. Nenad as a draw for now.


:nonono: :naughty: :thand:


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## ghoti

*Re: Who will be the stronger team next year? Knicks vs. Nets*

I think the Knicks will improve by more wins than the Nets will this season.

But just barely.


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## Truknicksfan

*Re: Who will be the stronger team next year? Knicks vs. Nets*



> um ok, the knicks are a 31 win team tops. send the pick over to chicago and good nite


Yeah could you bait anymore? Please read the rules of this board. Kitty was nice enough to make it REAL easy for you and posted a thread and sticky it for you. I think you should read the thread then thank Kitty for having it up there for you to read. And next time you post here, make it good, we dont play games here on the Knicks board :biggrin:


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## Kiyaman

*Re: Who will be the stronger team next year? Knicks vs. Nets*



kconn61686 said:


> um ok, the knicks are a 31 win team tops. send the pick over to chicago and good nite


*I notice that alot of KnickFans, KnickForums, and Knick Sports Writers has changed their two years ago philosophy of the Knicks and adabted to HOF Coach Larry Brown philosophy of the Knicks. 
Yet, everyone is being quiet about this Offseason USA Olympic Team Leaders whom Larry Brown Benched when he was their coach. They are playing like the "Original Dream Team" with each of their blowouts this offseason while having fun playing.* 

The Nets depend to much on Vince Carter & RJ scoring in the 4th quarter to WIN. 
*Coach Frank is not a Post Season Coach.* 
Jason Kidd may be the best PG Leader in the NBA for the last 5 years but when is he going to mentor a backup PG to keep the pace of the game flowing when he rest on the bench. 
Stefinski and Rod Thorn are bad draft selectors and their trading of Players has not been to great either. Antoine Wright was a Bust! when Granger, Green, Warrick, Hodge, Nate, and Jack names was being yelled out cuz they would have been great backups to the BIG-3. We all know the reason why the Nets selected Marcus Williams in this draft. 
*Will the Nets WIN 49 games in the 2006-7 season? 
Will the Nets lead the Atlantic Division in the 2006-7 season? 
The Nets been a very questionable team since the Buy-Out of Mutombo and the Firing of Coach Byron Scott. Why? Because that was their Championship Ring Season.* 

The Knicks biggest Problem this season is Marbury & Francis Starting. 
Every outsider Fan and Sports Writer are making a BIG-JOKE of the Knicks and Isiah Thomas just from the thought of Marbury & Francis Starting in the backcourt in the 2006-7 season. 

President Isiah Thomas signed Jamal Crawford to be the backup to Allan Houston. 
He also signed a defensive swingman SF that was a 2nd round pick (Trevor Ariza). 
He resigned Defensive C/PF Kurt Thomas. 
Isiah Thomas thought he had the Scoring BIG-3 in: 
PG-Marbury
SG-Crawford 
SF-Tim Thomas 
The Knick Team started out doing well that season without any plan system, defense, or chemistry, untill Marbury called out and challenged every NBA Guard in the league by making a statement that he was the BEST PG in the NBA. It was funny because NBA Guards that were on the injury list came off the injury list when their teams played the Knicks and put a whipping on Marbury and his statement. 
Did that Make Marbury a poor PG? No! but it let everyone know what a poor defender and Team leader Marbury was, because Marbury kept up his scoring and assist average. 

The Knicks 23-59 season is based mainly on: 
Crawford is not a 6th-Man. 
Crawford is not a PG. 
Q.Richardson is not a SG. 
Q.Richardson is not a Starting SG. 
Crawford is the Best SG on the Knicks Roster. 
Q.Richardson had a bad back injury plus death in his family, 
yet he was a Starter and average 27 minutes per game last season. 

Last season if Marbury & Crawford began the season as the Starting Backcourt it would have been very easy to find the other 3-Starters on the Knicks Roster in the first 10 games of the season. 
Plus find the best healthy 4-Bench-Players to start a 9-Man Rotation with. 
The Knicks ran a 11-Man to 12-Man Rotation all season long (The Knicks 6-Game WINNING STREAK was the only time the Knicks used a 9-Man Rotation). 

*Everyone lastseason kept saying, "Larry Brown type Player". 
The Knicks had several so-call Larry Brown type Players in: 
C-James & Butler
PF-Frye, Lee, Malik
SF-Ariza & Lee
SG-Crawford
PG-Nate* 

I guess Lebron, Melo, Wade, Amare, and Okafor was not Larry Brown type of players either the way he benched all of them in the USA Olympic Game Bronze Medal...


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## JCB

*Re: Who will be the stronger team next year? Knicks vs. Nets*



Da Grinch said:


> every team has its potential I am merely going on whats reasonably expected .
> 
> the nets were extremely healthy last season . their big 4 missed 11 games last season in total ..with 5 of those in the last 2 games, thats not common and shouldn't be expected , not with these guys at least.
> 
> in the previous 2 seasons kidd missed over 30 games alone.


Loose cartilage in knee in 03-04. Surgery over offseason causes him to miss around first 15 games of 04-05. Played 80 games last year (would have been all 82 if we hadn't rested him for the final 2) pretty much dispelling any doubt that his knee is a problem. 

So, as you can see, the fact that he missed 30+ games from 03-05 was because of his knee, and nothing more. And last year he proved his knee is no longer a concern. 



> rjeff missed 49 games the previous season


caused by a freakish accident in which he was undercut by Chauncey Billups on the fast break. He landed on his wrist and tore multiple ligaments. Required surgery caused him to miss the rest of the year.

Disregarding that season, RJ has played in 79, 80, 82, and 78 (79 if he wasn't resting against Philly the 2nd to last game of the season) games. He's a workhorse.

And unless another freak accident happens again this year, I don't see RJ playing any less than 75 games. 



> and vince in his last 4 seasons with the raptors he avg. less than 50 games a season.


Where did you get that from? He averaged nearly 63 games a season his last 4 full years in TOR. 

And if you disregard the 02-03 season, in which he played 43 games, and the 98-99 lockout season, in which he played the full possible 50 games, his career average of games played per season is 74 games. Not too bad, huh? 



> krstic has been pretty healthy playing 75 and 80 games , he is the one I would count on to stay very healthy


Correct. Especially since he isn't playing over in Europe this summer.



> even fully healthy last season the nets had flaws , they couldn't score well they were the 21st ranked offensive team, only slightly better than the knicks...i dont see that changing much for the nets, if anything they will likely be worse, just *because kidd will be a year older and he is the engine that makes them go*, just like they were the 2nd best defensive team , i dont see reason for much of a change there either.


Everybody keeps saying things like this. "Jason is slowing down. He's getting old."

I haven't seen it. And until he shows me even a glimmer of losing a step, I won't believe anyone's opinion that he is slowing down.



> the nets supposedly had a great vet bench last season, players dont always play to expectations, only cliff robinson and vaughn really did what was expected of them , antione wright , mcinnis , plananic, padgett and lamond murray were all way below expectations, if the nets didn't enjoy such great health out of their top 4, 49 wins were impossible.


Cliff Robinson _was_ our bench. No one else.

Vaughn was horrible, committing stupid *** fouls at mid-court nearly every game.

Antoine Wright was on the IR for the first half of last year, and when he wasn't, Frank only played him for a few minutes at the end of the 1st half of games.

McInnis. 'Nuff said.

Planinic? What a waste of a roster spot he was. If anyone thought that he could provide something off the bench based upon what he had done his previous years in Jersey, they were kidding themselves. He played completely out of control

Padgett gave us one good game against Denver. That was basically all of what we got from him.

Murray played decently for the last part of the year, and during the playoffs. But where was he for 80% of the season? 

Our bench gave us _nothing_ last year. The fact that we won 49 games with nothing off the bench was a huge accomplishment.



> who did the nets add in the offseason that is supposed to be better than mcinnis was supposed to be last season? or even murray,
> 
> eventually marcus williams, josh boone , wright and ilic, but how much of an impact are they realistically supposed to provide this season?


Anything is better than McInnis. Everyone knows that.

Realistically, Marcus is supposed to provide 15-18 min of relief for Jason Kidd. Do I think he can do it? Yes.

Boone is supposed to give us a big man who can play some D, run the floor, and finish around the rim. Do I think he can do it? Maybe. It all depends on when and how he returns from his shoulder surgery.

Ilic isn't going to do anything IMO. He'll be riding the IR for most of the season. He's just here to learn the NBA game.

Hassan Adams. This is a hazy area. Not sure how much he'll play. But if he can provide some hard nosed D, and run the floor, he'll fit in just fine.

Antoine Wright spent the entire summer in the gym, shooting. And if summer league was any indication, his jumper has improved dramatically from last season. Add to that the fact that he played decent D (when he played) last year for a rookie and that he runs the floor extremely well, and I think he'll be in our rotation for the whole year.

Mikki Moore, although he isn't a big name guy, gives us just what we need: another big who can run the floor and finish. That's all we need him to do.

Eddie House finally gives us a shooter we've been missing. This was a huge addition to our bench.

And anything that Boki can provide is a bonus. I don't see him playing all that much, if at all, anyway.


So, although our bench is nothing to write home about, it certainly is not as bad as last years. We made improvements exactly where we needed them: a shooter, bigs who can run and finish, and tough, hard-nosed defenders.


----------



## Da Grinch

*Re: Who will be the stronger team next year? Knicks vs. Nets*

where to begin.




> Loose cartilage in knee in 03-04. Surgery over offseason causes him to miss around first 15 games of 04-05. Played 80 games last year (would have been all 82 if we hadn't rested him for the final 2) pretty much dispelling any doubt that his knee is a problem.
> 
> So, as you can see, the fact that he missed 30+ games from 03-05 was because of his knee, and nothing more. And last year he proved his knee is no longer a concern.


he is not the same player , its obvious 

before surgery , Kidd = best pg in basketball 

after surgery , kidd equals somewhere between 6-10 best pg in basketball.

did i miss the memo where all of the nba's point guards suddenly jumped up 10 notches in ability?

i dont think I did.







> caused by a freakish accident in which he was undercut by Chauncey Billups on the fast break. He landed on his wrist and tore multiple ligaments. Required surgery caused him to miss the rest of the year.
> 
> Disregarding that season, RJ has played in 79, 80, 82, and 78 (79 if he wasn't resting against Philly the 2nd to last game of the season) games. He's a workhorse.
> 
> And unless another freak accident happens again this year, I don't see RJ playing any less than 75 games.



freak accident? is there a typical way to miss 49 games? i dont think there is , every player hits the deck at times , sometimes they get hurt , usually they dont ...also you accuse billups of undercutting him and calling it a freak accident, nba players get undercut all the time sometimes on purpose , usually i dont think thats the case , there is nothing freakish about that







> And if you disregard the 02-03 season, in which he played 43 games, and the 98-99 lockout season, in which he played the full possible 50 games, his career average of games played per season is 74 games. Not too bad, huh?



why would i discount when he was hurt to show how healthy he is , that doesn't make sense









> Everybody keeps saying things like this. "Jason is slowing down. He's getting old."
> 
> I haven't seen it. And until he shows me even a glimmer of losing a step, I won't believe anyone's opinion that he is slowing down.


you don't think kidd is slowing down?

then explain this to me , 3-5 years ago he was a the best pg in basketball and on the all nba team every year ...an MVP candidate .

is he now?

last I checked not only was he not an MVP candidate, and not on an the all nba team he wasn't on any of the nba teams and hasn't been the last 2 years .

there was a thread on the nets forum where they had him ranked the 7th best point guard in the league, face it bud , Kidd is declining as do all great point guards as they creep deeper into their 30's its just a fact .






> Cliff Robinson _was_ our bench. No one else.
> 
> Vaughn was horrible, committing stupid *** fouls at mid-court nearly every game.
> 
> Antoine Wright was on the IR for the first half of last year, and when he wasn't, Frank only played him for a few minutes at the end of the 1st half of games.
> 
> McInnis. 'Nuff said.
> 
> Planinic? What a waste of a roster spot he was. If anyone thought that he could provide something off the bench based upon what he had done his previous years in Jersey, they were kidding themselves. He played completely out of control
> 
> Padgett gave us one good game against Denver. That was basically all of what we got from him.
> 
> Murray played decently for the last part of the year, and during the playoffs. But where was he for 80% of the season?
> 
> Our bench gave us _nothing_ last year. The fact that we won 49 games with nothing off the bench was a huge accomplishment.
> 
> 
> 
> Anything is better than McInnis. Everyone knows that.
> 
> Realistically, Marcus is supposed to provide 15-18 min of relief for Jason Kidd. Do I think he can do it? Yes.
> 
> Boone is supposed to give us a big man who can play some D, run the floor, and finish around the rim. Do I think he can do it? Maybe. It all depends on when and how he returns from his shoulder surgery.
> 
> Ilic isn't going to do anything IMO. He'll be riding the IR for most of the season. He's just here to learn the NBA game.
> 
> Hassan Adams. This is a hazy area. Not sure how much he'll play. But if he can provide some hard nosed D, and run the floor, he'll fit in just fine.
> 
> Antoine Wright spent the entire summer in the gym, shooting. And if summer league was any indication, his jumper has improved dramatically from last season. Add to that the fact that he played decent D (when he played) last year for a rookie and that he runs the floor extremely well, and I think he'll be in our rotation for the whole year.
> 
> Mikki Moore, although he isn't a big name guy, gives us just what we need: another big who can run the floor and finish. That's all we need him to do.
> 
> Eddie House finally gives us a shooter we've been missing. This was a huge addition to our bench.
> 
> And anything that Boki can provide is a bonus. I don't see him playing all that much, if at all, anyway.
> 
> 
> So, although our bench is nothing to write home about, it certainly is not as bad as last years. We made improvements exactly where we needed them: a shooter, bigs who can run and finish, and tough, hard-nosed defenders.



i never once said the nets bench last year was good , i said it was thought that they were supposed to be good, they basically stunk and played well below expectations for the most part. supposedly last year's bench was a vet unit with scoring , and defense...it didn't at all work out like that .

wright was supposed to be able to play last year .

murray supposedly had some gas in the tank.

mcinnis was a starter the year before so he was thought to be an excellent addition, 

cliff robinson was decent


and i though vaughn was decent as well...especially considering he managed to be kidd's main back up when he was supposed to be 3rd string, and not get any time.

i dont see any1 on the nets roster that comes in and is really expected to have an impact next year for them, jeff mcinnis avg. 12.8 and 5.1 the year before , the nets haven't imported anybody even close to his track record.

mikki moore couldn't get time aganst 2 unproven players in robert swift and johan petro, yet somehow he is what the nets need according to you ....what does he provide that the nets need in a center but the sonics didn't?

hassan adams ,, marcus williams, josh boone and ilic are all rookies they have proven nothing in the nba yet ....and all were drafted later than wright who provided nothing last year .., so there really is not the past history to justify your optimism.

i dont remember him(wright) not playing because he was hurt i remember a significant # of dnp-cd's next to him , but because when he did play he didn't do anything to deserve more time , and this was on a bench that in your own words gave them nothing, so if he had anything to give they surely would have accepted it.

if eddie house plays serious minutes , thats not good news for the nets , it means that marcus williams sucks or kidd is hurt , he is a shooter but he is not a good point guard, which is why he couldn't get more than a 1 year deal...and why he has been on 5 teams the last 3 seasons...and now he is moving on to a 6th team in the nets. put your faith in him if you want but his past has shown its not wise.


----------



## EwingStarksOakley94

*Re: Who will be the stronger team next year? Knicks vs. Nets*

Da Grinch rules.


----------



## musiclexer

*Re: Who will be the stronger team next year? Knicks vs. Nets*

Knicks fans lets be honest.


----------



## Kiyaman

*Re: Who will be the stronger team next year? Knicks vs. Nets*

*The question I ask myself about the NETS each offseason is will they ever be Like the Nets Team that went to the Finals two seasons in a row? 

My answer each offseason is NO.* 

Coach Frank and his coaching staff is not ready for such a BIG Leap. 
Is the Nets Starting 5 ready for that BIG Leap? Yes, but they need 3 to 4 bench players to give that extra boost which they do not have. 
Could Stefanski and Rod Thorn use some help from the Coach and his staff? Yes, but the Coach and Staff are not confident enough to advise upper Brass decisions...


----------



## Real

*Re: Who will be the stronger team next year? Knicks vs. Nets*



Kiyaman said:


> *The question I ask myself about the NETS each offseason is will they ever be Like the Nets Team that went to the Finals two seasons in a row? *
> 
> *My answer each offseason is NO.*
> 
> Coach Frank and his coaching staff is not ready for such a BIG Leap.
> Is the Nets Starting 5 ready for that BIG Leap? Yes, but they need 3 to 4 bench players to give that extra boost which they do not have.
> Could Stefanski and Rod Thorn use some help from the Coach and his staff? Yes, but the Coach and Staff are not confident enough to advise upper Brass decisions...


Those three to four bench players should be Marcus Williams, Eddie House, Antoine Wright, and Clifford Robinson.

Really, it's not a bad bench on paper. It doesn't have the star power the Knicks have, but it's much more younger and athletic than the year before. 

Now all Frank has to do is play them. In a way it could look like the 2001-2002 Nets, in the sense that the Nets will now look to run more and there are four rookies on the roster, like there was in 2001-2002.


----------



## mjm1

*Re: Who will be the stronger team next year? Knicks vs. Nets*

In the Jason Kidd Era, the nets have gone 20-2 in every single game Jkidd has participated against the New York Knicks. I want one reason why the Knicks will suddenly pose a greater threat to the Nets other than the garbage Da Grinch is spewing about how the team was *lucky* that their injury prone players rofl were in good health last season but will not be in the next year.


----------



## JCB

*Re: Who will be the stronger team next year? Knicks vs. Nets*



Da Grinch said:


> he is not the same player , its obvious
> 
> before surgery , Kidd = best pg in basketball
> 
> after surgery , kidd equals somewhere between 6-10 best pg in basketball.


What are you basing all this on? And how exactly is it obvious that he's not the player he once was? 




> freak accident? is there a typical way to miss 49 games? i dont think there is , every player hits the deck at times , sometimes they get hurt , usually they dont ...also you accuse billups of undercutting him and calling it a freak accident, nba players get undercut all the time sometimes on purpose , usually i dont think thats the case , there is nothing freakish about that


Right there's nothing freakish about getting clipped on the fast break by a player who has absolutely no chance of stopping you, and then falling on your wrist, and tearing several ligaments. How many times does that happen every year would you say? There's no way that's unusual. 

And he needed surgery. His recovery took several months. There's nothing he could have done about that. And just because he tore a few ligaments, all of a sudden, everyone thinks he's injury prone. Get real people. RJ is not injury prone.

And how come you didn't respond to the fact that RJ has never played less than 78 games in a season not counting the year he missed 49 games? 



> why would i discount when he was hurt to show how healthy he is , that doesn't make sense


Because it's only _one_ season. You can't say how injury prone a player is based on _one_ season. Doesn't work that way.





> you don't think kidd is slowing down?
> 
> then explain this to me , 3-5 years ago he was a the best pg in basketball and on the all nba team every year ...an MVP candidate .
> 
> is he now?
> 
> last I checked not only was he not an MVP candidate, and not on an the all nba team he wasn't on any of the nba teams and hasn't been the last 2 years .
> 
> there was a thread on the nets forum where they had him ranked the 7th best point guard in the league, face it bud , Kidd is declining as do all great point guards as they creep deeper into their 30's its just a fact .


Obviously, I don't think he's slowing down. I watched every single Nets game last. Every single one. How many did you watch? How many did that writer who made that "list" watch? I can guarantee you it's not enough to accurately gauge Kidd's play.

About the MVP award . . . 

compare his stats from 01-02 and last year and tell me if you see that much of a difference that would allow you to state that he has lost a step:

In 01-02, he averaged 14.7 ppg, 9.9 apg, 7.3 rpg, 2.1 spg, 81% FT, 32% 3pt, 39% fg.
In 05-06, he averaged 13.3 ppg, 8.4 apg, 7.3 rpg, 1.9 spg, 80% FT, 35% 3pt, 40% fg.

Are the numbers in 01-02 slightly better? Yes.
Are they _that_ much better to warrant a statement that he has lost a step? I don't think so. 

Also, you can't judge a player by whether or not he makes an All-NBA team or not. Just because he doesn't make it one year, but he did make it two years earlier doesn't necessarily mean he has lost a step. The other players in league may have improved, and that is most definetly the case, IMO. Dwyane Wade, LeBron James, Steve Nash, Chauncey Billups, Gilbert Arenas, etc were not playing as well as they are now back in 03-04, 02-03. You can't argue that.

And just FYI, last time I checked, Jason Kidd made the All-Defensive team last year. 




> i never once said the nets bench last year was good , *i said it was thought that they were supposed to be good*, they basically stunk and played well below expectations for the most part. supposedly last year's bench was a vet unit with scoring , and defense...it didn't at all work out like that .


who told you that?



> wright was supposed to be able to play last year .


True. But Frank putting him on the IR certainly didn't help the kids confidence. 

And Frank has a history of not playing rookies. If Zo wasn't traded, who knows how Nenad would have developed two years ago.



> murray supposedly had some gas in the tank.


Really? News to me.



> mcinnis was a starter the year before so he was thought to be an excellent addition,


McInnis. Why would I even argue about him? He sucks. Anybody, a fan of any team, will tell you that. He'll be playing in Europe next year. (If he wants to that is)



> and i though vaughn was decent as well...especially considering he managed to be kidd's main back up when he was supposed to be 3rd string, and not get any time.


He managed to be Kidd's backup because Jeff McInnis was the other PG.

Vaughn sucks. All he does is foul, foul, foul, at half court.



> i dont see any1 on the nets roster that comes in and is really expected to have an impact next year for them, jeff mcinnis avg. 12.8 and 5.1 the year before , the nets haven't imported anybody even close to his track record.


Again, this is Jeff McInnis we're talking about here. You shouldn't be comparing anybody to him. He's worthless. No matter what his "track record" says.



> mikki moore couldn't get time aganst 2 unproven players in robert swift and johan petro, yet somehow he is what the nets need according to you ....what does he provide that the nets need in a center but the sonics didn't?


An athletic big who can run and finish around the rim. That's what he provides. And if you tell me that's not what we needed, you're fooling yourself.



> hassan adams ,, marcus williams, josh boone and ilic are all rookies they have proven nothing in the nba yet ....and all were drafted later than wright who provided nothing last year .., so there really is not the past history to justify your optimism.


So now we judge a player based on where he was drafted? Riiiight.

Marcus Williams was lottery value.

Hassam Adams was late first round material, were it not for his fractured foot.

Josh Boone was exactly the type of player we needed. Another athletic big who can run and finish and block some shots. Something we most definitely needed.

Ilic would have been a first round pick in this years draft. But as I already stated earlier in the thread, I don't expect him to play much. 



> i dont remember him(wright) not playing because he was hurt i remember a significant # of dnp-cd's next to him , but because when he did play he didn't do anything to deserve more time , and this was on a bench that in your own words gave them nothing, so if he had anything to give they surely would have accepted it.


Again, he was on the IR for more than half the year. And yea, I'll admit, when he did play, he looked shaky, and nervous. But his defense was solid for the most part. And he spent the entire summer in the gym, shooting. And as is evident by his summer league play, his shooting has improved big time.



> if eddie house plays serious minutes , thats not good news for the nets , it means that marcus williams sucks or kidd is hurt , he is a shooter but he is not a good point guard, which is why he couldn't get more than a 1 year deal...and why he has been on 5 teams the last 3 seasons...and now he is moving on to a 6th team in the nets. put your faith in him if you want but his past has shown its not wise.


How is Eddie playing, bad news for us? Why do you think we signed him? To ride the bench? Honestly?

We don't need him to be a good point guard. Again, why do you think we signed him? To run the offense? 

We signed him because we needed a shooter. Desperately. If can shoot like he did last year for Phoenix, I'll be happy, because that's exactly what we need him to do. Nothing more.


----------



## mjm1

*Re: Who will be the stronger team next year? Knicks vs. Nets*

Face it _Da Grinch_, you just got owned on your own board.


----------



## USSKittyHawk

*Re: Who will be the stronger team next year? Knicks vs. Nets*



mjm1 said:


> Face it _Da Grinch_, you just got owned on your own board.


Thank goodness for opinions because we all know no one in this thread is owning anything but a mouse pad.


----------



## mjm1

*Re: Who will be the stronger team next year? Knicks vs. Nets*



Kitty said:


> Thank goodness for opinions because we all know no one in this thread is owning anything but a mouse pad.


 :clap: I'll take the more logical opinion from a fan with first hand experience of the subject at hand, than one who rambles on about hypothetical and meaningless garbage. would not you?


----------



## EwingStarksOakley94

*Re: Who will be the stronger team next year? Knicks vs. Nets*

The only "owned" people are the 15 years olds who actually use cheesy internet vocabulary


----------



## MrCharisma

*Re: Who will be the stronger team next year? Knicks vs. Nets*



EwingStarksOakley94 said:


> The only "owned" people are the 15 years olds who actually use cheesy internet vocabulary



_lol_...oops... ::Vanishes back into the shadows::


----------



## mjm1

*Re: Who will be the stronger team next year? Knicks vs. Nets*



EwingStarksOakley94 said:


> The only "owned" people are the 15 years olds who actually use cheesy internet vocabulary


I know youre not talking to me. Born in '89. owned has been used for years smartalec by every age demographic.


----------



## JCB

*Re: Who will be the stronger team next year? Knicks vs. Nets*



Kitty said:


> Thank goodness for opinions because we all know no one in this thread is owning anything but a mouse pad.


you're right. all we're doing is stating our opinions on the subject.

obviously, I'm not going to change Da Grinch's mind, and he's not going to change mine.

agree to disagree.


----------



## EwingStarksOakley94

*Re: Who will be the stronger team next year? Knicks vs. Nets*



JCB said:


> you're right. all we're doing is stating our opinions on the subject.
> 
> obviously, I'm not going to change Da Grinch's mind, and he's not going to change mine.
> 
> agree to disagree.


most intelligent post yet


----------



## JCB

*Re: Who will be the stronger team next year? Knicks vs. Nets*



EwingStarksOakley94 said:


> most intelligent post yet


 I'd beg to differ.

But then again, that's just my opinion.


----------



## KVIP112

*Re: Who will be the stronger team next year? Knicks vs. Nets*

Nets are better than the Knicks


----------



## Da Grinch

*Re: Who will be the stronger team next year? Knicks vs. Nets*

wow a guy doesn't post for a couple of days and look what happens.

and while its generally foolish to feed trolls i'll indulge just 1 time more.

RJ's "freakish accident" on 2 posts you(JCB) accuse billups of a dirty play and saying its freakish RJ got hurt because he got hurt when his 225 pound body landed on his wrist. what was exactly freakish about it? gravity taking hold on you messiah Richard jefferson?

did you expect that his bones were not actually made of bone but some sort of metal that cant break from that sort of fall?

dirty plays often leave people injured son, its no more freakish then punching some1 in the nose and seeing it bleed afterwards. the fact that you cant even see this leaves me to wonder whether finishing this post if warranted....but i will continue.

antione wright was on the inactive list for half the season and in the games he played he shot 1-15 from 3 point range 50% from the free throw line, 1.8 points a game on .358 from the field...and this was a guy who was reputed to be a guy who could shoot and score.

he was not in the rotation, and even on the nets bench he didn't deserve to be in the game but after a couple months he was just a guy whom the felt compelled to give min. to because he was their 1st round selection to try and develop him with playing time...but his play didn't warrant him playing more than spot minutes...it say alot that that zoran played more than him last season a guy desribed by JCB as a waste of a roster spot. 

and even if he was hurt that doesn't explain why he played less than 10 minutes a game in the ones he did play in those would the games he was healthy...something in the tirades some posters seem to omit from their posts.

the reasoning of course was simple the nets were trying to win and wright is not a good player, giving him more minutes would only have given the nets more losses.

but for some reason some on this thread lack the ability to see that.

just like somehow when kidd misses not just the all nba team but also the 2nd and 3rd team after being a fixure for a few years ...its not because he is slowing down but because apparently the league has just jumped up a few notches to the point he'll likely never make it again.

is that reasonable?

did the league leapfrog all the stars of just 3 years ago ...it doesn't appear that way, but somehow ...somehow the league has picked jason kidd as a guy it will now overlook, and the players in it all improve but jason kidd is the same in ways and form.

a few years ago he was dominant player a top 3 guy in the league last year was possibly only the 3rd best player on his own team.

but despite the fact he was on the all nba defensive team he has lost a step.


http://www.82games.com/03NJN1C.HTM

jason kidd from the 2003-04 season


http://www.82games.com/0506/05NJN1C.HTM

jason kidd last year

he still handles his business on team defense but now opposing pg's can score on him , and do it rather efficiently

in the span of 2 years he has gone from a good man to man defender to actually a less than average , and whether its him playing team D and not getting back in time when he once did or him slowing down laterally he is slowing ...and 82games.com do employ game trackers ...so it was people watching the game not boxscore readers...and they watch all the games...to put minds in ease on that.

the 1st things to go with a player is his lateral quickness and vertical leap , Kidd never really made his living trying to jump over people but he does need lateral quickness .

now if you want to continue arguing about how jason kidd is as quick as he ever was , go ahead , but you'll sound dumb , he came in the league at 20 there is 13 years of tread on his tires and now of course leg surgery ...and now you can see opposing pg's are having an easier time with him...add that to the fact that he is being lapped by the league's elite as he is no longer being mentioned with them.

and if you want to see how the bench from last season was thought of all you have to do is read back on your own board about this time last year I assure you it(the mcinnis signing) was considered a smart thing by the extreme majority of fans and media, a bargain was the term thrown out most about it.


and if Mikki Mooore was as good as JCB is touting him why is he only getting the chicken scratch deal( i beleive its only 1 maybe 2 years) from the nets ? you would think if you were accurate he would be worth far more, centers are the highest paid position in the league despite the fact its the weakest position in the league ...but the simple truth is he isn't very good and all his running and jumping and running the floor he averages all of 3.3 points a game(its not like the sonics play a slow paced game , they were the 8th fastest paced team in the league last year ...significantly faster then the nets play)...showing maybe you should invest in nba league pass or catch as many games on ESPN, MSG and TNT as possible and watch other teams and you might have noticed that the nets are not the best fit for him...because you posted how the fast pace of the nets was a perfect fit when the truth is the nets actually play at a slower pace than most teams (they are the 20th fastest paced team last season)...they have a few spurts a game but are for the most part a decidedly half court team...even slower than the larry brown led knicks last season(15th).

was that case in 2002-03 ?...no , but these nets aren't those nets , and its something you should realize...they run their offense in the halfcourt now around vince carter something easy to see when you _watch all 82 games_

i could go on and trust me this post could be much longer, i just picked out a few points , but this post is long enough and this thread has been hijacked long enough. If this really needs to continue , I can be PM'ed and I will respond , but on this thread it will end.

P.S. no one gets owned on an internet message board , the term "owned" in this sense is generally used by the young , the immature and the delusional who want to make a fun pastime such as posting about sports far more than it actually is. No one should be getting upset talking about a game or be trolling for little internet battles , thats not why the majority of people on these boards and it wont be a primary reason for people posting on this one. I realize people get a little board and antsy because all there is ..is talk, no games til preseason in october..but I hope for a decent amount of civility until then.


----------



## JCB

*Re: Who will be the stronger team next year? Knicks vs. Nets*



Da Grinch said:


> wow a guy doesn't post for a couple of days and look what happens.
> 
> and while its generally foolish to feed trolls i'll indulge just 1 time more.
> 
> RJ's "freakish accident" on 2 posts you(JCB) accuse billups of a dirty play and saying its freakish RJ got hurt because he got hurt when his 225 pound body landed on his wrist. what was exactly freakish about it? gravity taking hold on you messiah Richard jefferson?
> 
> did you expect that his bones were not actually made of bone but some sort of metal that cant break from that sort of fall?
> 
> dirty plays often leave people injured son, its no more freakish then punching some1 in the nose and seeing it bleed afterwards. the fact that you cant even see this leaves me to wonder whether finishing this post if warranted....but i will continue.


I stopped reading after this. Once again, I ask you, how many times in the last year, hell, even the last 5 years, has a player been undercut by another player and had to have season ending surgery? If you tell me one more time that that is not a freak accident, nothing you say from here on should be taken seriously. You're kidding yourself.

Apparently you didn't read my post earlier where I said, "Agree to disagree." Generally, that means the discussion is over. Which, with this post, it is. At least by me.

And please, don't ever, ever call me "son" again. I don't appreciate it. At all.

Also, smooth move calling me a troll. Real smooth. You won't have to worry anymore. I'll never "troll" your forum again, if that's what _you_ wish to call it.


----------



## mjm1

*Re: Who will be the stronger team next year? Knicks vs. Nets*



JCB said:


> I stopped reading after this. Once again, I ask you, how many times in the last year, hell, even the last 5 years, has a player been undercut by another player and had to have season ending surgery? If you tell me one more time that that is not a freak accident, nothing you say from here on should be taken seriously. You're kidding yourself.
> 
> Apparently you didn't read my post earlier where I said, "Agree to disagree." Generally, that means the discussion is over. Which, with this post, it is. At least by me.
> 
> And please, don't ever, ever call me "son" again. I don't appreciate it. At all.
> 
> Also, smooth move calling me a troll. Real smooth. You won't have to worry anymore. I'll never "troll" your forum again.


The Troll calling, i believe, was in reference to myself by Da Grinch :clown:. And i can *guarantee*, "owned" has been used at least once by every single poster in the past.


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## Da Grinch

*Re: Who will be the stronger team next year? Knicks vs. Nets*



JCB said:


> I stopped reading after this. Once again, I ask you, how many times in the last year, hell, even the last 5 years, has a player been undercut by another player and had to have season ending surgery? If you tell me one more time that that is not a freak accident, nothing you say from here on should be taken seriously. You're kidding yourself.
> 
> Apparently you didn't read my post earlier where I said, "Agree to disagree." Generally, that means the discussion is over. Which, with this post, it is. At least by me.
> 
> And please, don't ever, ever call me "son" again. I don't appreciate it. At all.
> 
> Also, smooth move calling me a troll. Real smooth. You won't have to worry anymore. I'll never "troll" your forum again, if that's what you wish to call it.


you want to taken seriously learn to pay attention to what you say.

you accuse someone of a dirty play and call it freakish he got hurt .

i'm gonna keep posting that until you catch on...and if you never do thats ok too.

and to answer your question Nene ...day 1 of the season, wasn't he hurt while duncan was reaching in on him, knocking into him and when he tried to regain his balance tore his ACL?

also yao had season ending surgery when he was kicked in the foot by memo okur

heck about 5 years ago wasn't kenyon's season ended when kerry kittles undercut him and he broke his leg?

these things happen alot more than you apparently think.


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## Da Grinch

*Re: Who will be the stronger team next year? Knicks vs. Nets*



mjm1 said:


> The Troll calling, i believe, was in reference to myself by Da Grinch :clown:. And i can *guarantee*, "owned" has been used at least once by every single poster in the past.


if you can find *me* using the word in that fashion(you know what I mean) , i will quickly aopologize to you , this site does have a seach feature...but until then posts not about knicks & nets _next season _ will be deleted.


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## USSKittyHawk

*Re: Who will be the stronger team next year? Knicks vs. Nets*

Grinch, I would have love to see how this thread would have turned out during the Kenny Anderson, and Morris era. :bsmile:


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## kconn61686

*Re: Who will be the stronger team next year? Knicks vs. Nets*

i think toronto is eyeing a 2nd place finish this year... they have improved and always play everyone very tough at home, they should be able to get 38 Ws if things go right.


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## netsfan5rule

*whose better net or knicks*

i'm a net fan but a knicks fan went on the nets board and is saying the knicks are better, so i want to see how many knicks fan actually believe their better than the nets, or think their organization is a complete mess


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## USSKittyHawk

*Re: whose better net or knicks*

Ball Scientist is not a Knicks fan since he created that thread in the Nets forum and we already have a thread about this so I'm merging this one.


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## Dumpy

I'm fascinated by how this thread has devolved into bashing RJ, Kidd, Wright and Mikki Moore, and has completely ignored the issue of why the Knicks are better. I guess everyone is a fan their own way, but I find it curious that apparently to be a Knick fan is to denigrate the Nets, instead of being optimistic about your own players.

Oh, and if I thought there was any chance of an intelligent conversation, I'd be happy to discuss RJ, Kidd, Wright, and Mikki. Just say the word, and I'll be back.


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## ghoti

Is the point of this thread to make Nets fans seem arrogant or to make Knicks fans seem foolish?

I don't see any other reason to discuss this.

Why not have a poll about the Spurs and the Bobcats?


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## Krstic All-Star

*Re: Who will be the stronger team next year? Knicks vs. Nets*



Kitty said:


> Grinch, I would have love to see how this thread would have turned out during the Kenny Anderson, and Morris era. :bsmile:


...Chris Morris.... shudder...


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## Truknicksfan

> Is the point of this thread to make Nets fans seem arrogant or to make Knicks fans seem foolish?
> 
> I don't see any other reason to discuss this.
> 
> Why not have a poll about the Spurs and the Bobcats?


Agreed.


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## Krstic All-Star

I'm not sure I see any point to this poll/thread either...


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## USSKittyHawk

I couldn't care less about the Nets if you ask me. As a diehard NY fan of all sports, I have my own problems and perfer to concentrate on my own team and no one else. Last time I checked their are 30 teams in the NBA, not 2.


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## mjm1

Kitty said:


> I couldn't care less about the Nets if you ask me. *As a diehard NY fan of all sports, I have my own problems and perfer to concentrate on my own team and no one else.* Last time I checked their are 30 teams in the NBA, not 2.


Ironic, in a matter of weeks, Bruce Ratner will get his approval for the arena in Brooklyn. By 2009-2010, they will be a NY team, still part of the metropolitan area as are the Jets and Giants (who are technically New Jersey Teams). So dismissing them because they dont have the NY brand just doesnt make sense.


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## mjm1

EDIT: mindless rambling :biggrin:


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## Da Grinch

sounds like a little 2nd state syndrome to me.


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## L

I wonder who voted knicks.


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## mjm1

Da Grinch said:


> sounds like a little 2nd state syndrome to me.


I Love New York. Just not all the unwarranted attention one team gets because of where they play *cough*Manhattan*cough*. But times, they are a changing. _*Brooklyn*_* Nets* 2009 :rock:. What I'm hoping for is Isiah Thomas being banished from coming anywhere near the Knicks organization, so that it can once again become competitive under a competent President/GM. This way, there will be a *real rivalry* by the time the Nets move in


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## USSKittyHawk

mjm1 said:


> Ironic, in a matter of weeks, Bruce Ratner will get his approval for the arena in Brooklyn. By 2009-2010, they will be a NY team, still part of the metropolitan area as are the Jets and Giants (who are technically New Jersey Teams). So dismissing them because they dont have the NY brand just doesnt make sense.


Hmm until they have a Brooklyn icon on their chest I couldn't care less. If that dosen't make sense to you then that's not my problem. Nice try on the Jets and Giant BS, but they also rock NY on their helmets, not NJ don't get it twisted.


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## Real

Kitty said:


> Hmm until they have a Brooklyn icon on their chest I couldn't care less. If that dosen't make sense to you then that's not my problem. Nice try on the Jets and Giant BS, but they also rock NY on their helmets, not NJ don't get it twisted.


Giants have been here for 30 years. Call me crazy, but I always considered them sort of Jersey's team, and the Jets more New Yorks'. I know a lot more Giants fans here in NJ than I do Jets. 

The Jets are moving their franchise operations to Florham Park, NJ, BTW. And both teams have made commitments to the state of New Jersey.


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## USSKittyHawk

Real said:


> Giants have been here for 30 years. Call me crazy, but I always considered them sort of Jersey's team, and the Jets more New Yorks'. I know a lot more Giants fans here in NJ than I do Jets.
> 
> The Jets are moving their franchise operations to Florham Park, NJ, BTW. And both teams have made commitments to the state of New Jersey.


I couldn't care less if they moved their facilities to California. If they are recognized as the NY Giants or NY Jets by the media and the NFL then I'm a root for them. I support all NY teams. What does this have to do with who will be the stronger team in terms of Net and Knicks? The last time I checked this wasn't about who Kitty roots for and why, because quite frankly it's none of your business.


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## mjm1

Kitty said:


> I couldn't care less if they moved their facilities to California. If they are recognized as the NY Giants or NY Jets by the media and the NFL then I'm a root for them. I support all NY teams. What does this have to do with who will be the stronger team in terms of Net and Knicks? The last time I checked this wasn't about who Kitty roots for and why, because quite frankly it's none of your business.


I am curious...would you be a fan of the Nets in Brooklyn? :biggrin:

EDIT: and would you still be a fan if the Giants/and or Jets one day change their names to New Jersey under court ruling (or moral reasoning)


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## Gotham2krazy

mjm1 said:


> EDIT: mindless rambling :biggrin:


No you think? Ya'll are *edit*, a New York team is a New York team, even if they play in New Jersey. As for the Nets, they just getting kicked out because Xanadu's being placed there, HOORAY! More malls in New Jersey, MORE TRAFFIC ON THE HIGHWAY! Oh wells


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## Real

Kitty said:


> I couldn't care less if they moved their facilities to California. If they are recognized as the NY Giants or NY Jets by the media and the NFL then I'm a root for them. I support all NY teams. What does this have to do with who will be the stronger team in terms of Net and Knicks? The last time I checked this wasn't about who Kitty roots for and why, because quite frankly it's none of your business.


Never said it was my business...

I don't care who you, or anyone else roots for. If you want to root for the Nets as well as the Knicks when they move that's fine, if you don't, hey that's cool too.


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## mjm1

Gotham2krazy said:


> No you think? Ya'll are stupid, a New York team is a New York team, even if they play in New Jersey. As for the Nets, they just getting kicked out because Xanadu's being placed there, HOORAY! More malls in New Jersey, MORE TRAFFIC ON THE HIGHWAY! Oh wells


I am forced to refrain myself. *But* 1) Xanadu project is on the Brink of Collapse 2) Xanadu is being built adjacent to CAA 3) Bruce Ratner has extended his lease with the Arena and State through 2010 _just in case_.

FYI, you have just broken several BBB.net rules in your post.


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## Truknicksfan

> I am curious...would you be a fan of the Nets in Brooklyn?


I wont be, I normally go with the team that was in NY first. (Yankees, Knicks )


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## mjm1

Truknicksfan said:


> I wont be, I normally go with the team that was in NY first. (Yankees, Knicks )


fair, have no problem with that. Hypothetically though, you'd be awfully tempted to crossover if Isiah Thomas is still driving the organization into the ground at the end of the decade :wink:


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## ghoti

Da Grinch said:


> sounds like a little 2nd state syndrome to me.


Hmmm. Interesting comment.


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## ghoti

*Re: Who will be the stronger team next year? Knicks vs. Nets*



Da Grinch said:


> in a head to head match up the knicks match up very well against the nets .
> 
> curry vs. collins
> frye vs. krstic
> jjeff vs. rjeff
> francis vs. carter
> marbury vs. kidd
> 
> and the bench nate/JC/Qrich/jalen rose/ malik rose/ mo taylor/ jerome james / renaldo balkman / mardy collins.
> 
> against marcus williams / josh boone / cliff robinson /mcinnis/illic/ a.wright/nachbar/mikki moore
> 
> after the season reasonably the knicks could win a series against them...i wouldn't give them much of a chance today.
> 
> as it is now the knicks are unproven ,the nets are a known quantity they won 49 games last year and are returning basically the same team. i believe the knicks are a close to 40 win team and the nets are a mid to low 40's win team ...that makes the nets stronger.


You are comparing a 23 win team to a 49 win team.

I'm all for optimism, but it's silly to say they are only a few wins apart.

And the Nets are not returning the same team. Not even close.

And Jeff McInnis is not on the Nets. He never will be, either.


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## Da Grinch

mjm1 said:


> I Love New York. Just not all the unwarranted attention one team gets because of where they play *cough*Manhattan*cough*. But times, they are a changing. _*Brooklyn*_* Nets* 2009 :rock:. What I'm hoping for is Isiah Thomas being banished from coming anywhere near the Knicks organization, so that it can once again become competitive under a competent President/GM. This way, there will be a *real rivalry* by the time the Nets move in



location location , location , its just that important .

now the knicks will always get more attention than the nets , just like the nets will always get more attentionthan lets say the bucks , its just life ....the sooner you make peace with that fact the easier.

and IT's basic philosophy is one I happen to agree with. get the most trade chips possible using the big contracts to aquire better players ....draft well, get younger through trades and use the MLE.

he's drafted very well imo 

the attempt for the younger, better players through switch contracts has not brought more wins(thx LB) but a heck of alot more talent is on the roster than the one thomas inherited.

The MLE ....well he has not used that well at all, vin baker and jerome james were flops , i can only hope Jerffries doesn't follow suit.

players dont always play to expectations ...in fact when you look at the roster its far easier to find players who suffered through career worst years than anything else.

due to next season's stakes i'm more than willing to basically to base his whole tenure on what he accomplishes next season. if they still cant play then he along with a significant portion of them need to go.


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## Da Grinch

due to the closeness in the standings between the nets and knicks i thought this was a good thread to bump.


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## USSKittyHawk

LOL @ Da Grinch....you trouble maker. I'm a wait until after the reg season is over to air out my comments I don't want to jinx myself.


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## ChosenFEW

yes i know injuries have taken their toll on the nets but they are still the only team in the atlantic with 2 allstars on their team(also a potential allstar in RJ).....


now the knicks have also had their share of injury problems but we're still right in the middle of the playoff hunt........

why do i bring this up?.....because i think lawrence frank has to go.....he probably has done the least with all the talent that he has...like i said i know injuries blah blah......but still knicks have also had to endure injuries and suspensions to a number of players but as of right now we stand on top of the nets and clean our feet with them 


fire lawrence frank!!!


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## USSKittyHawk

ChosenFEW said:


> yes i know injuries have taken their toll on the nets but they are still the only team in the atlantic with 2 allstars on their team(also a potential allstar in RJ).....
> 
> 
> now the knicks have also had their share of injury problems but we're still right in the middle of the playoff hunt........
> 
> why do i bring this up?.....because i think lawrence frank has to go.....he probably has done the least with all the talent that he has...like i said i know injuries blah blah......but still knicks have also had to endure injuries and suspensions to a number of players but as of right now we stand on top of the nets and clean our feet with them
> 
> 
> fire lawrence frank!!!


We have major injuries too, that may take a toll on our *** for the next 20 plus games if we don't get Lee and Quentin back healthy. As for Frank, you are absolutely right. That walking Lucky Charms Leprechaun is an overrated coach. I thought Bryon with the help of Eddie Jordan's Princeton offense did a better job with less talent the years they reached the finals.


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## Da Grinch

Kitty its all in good fun , and besides I'm not 100% right the nets are actually playing worse than I anticipated but I did call their injury situation was going to be why they weren't going to win as much .

and to Chosen Few I generally dont call for anyone to lose their job , but I think its fairly easy to see L. Frank isn't really doing as good a job as the guy he replaced , and that guy who is coaching a team with the same basic makeup ( a big 4 with a pg who makes it all go) basically has a less talented team , with even more injury problems in a tougher conference and the difference between the nets and the hornets is 2 games in the win column.

add to that when Scott was the coach of the Nets they went to the finals twice with a less talented version of the Nets than the version Frank coaches and the nets haven't been past the 2nd round since scott.


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## Real

Da Grinch said:


> Kitty its all in good fun , and besides I'm not 100% right the nets are actually playing worse than I anticipated but I did call their injury situation was going to be why they weren't going to win as much .
> 
> and to Chosen Few I generally dont call for anyone to lose their job , but I think its fairly easy to see L. Frank isn't really doing as good a job as the guy he replaced , and that guy who is coaching a team with the same basic makeup ( a big 4 with a pg who makes it all go) basically has a less talented team , with even more injury problems in a tougher conference and the difference between the nets and the hornets is 2 games in the win column.
> 
> add to that when Scott was the coach of the Nets they went to the finals twice with a less talented version of the Nets than the version Frank coaches and the nets haven't been past the 2nd round since scott.


For the record, Lawrence Frank is about to pass Byron Scott as the winningest Net coach of all time, in only 3 full seasons.


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## Da Grinch

Real said:


> For the record, Lawrence Frank is about to pass Byron Scott as the winningest Net coach of all time, in only 3 full seasons.



i'm sure the fact that frank inherited a 50 win team , while most every other nets coach inherits a 25 or so win team has nothing to do with it.


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## JoeOtter15

go nets! :biggrin:


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