# Could Allan Houston really be an elite scorer?



## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

Houston had 31 points in 41 minutes tonight. He was 11-20, 4-6 from 3pt range, and 5-5 on FTs. He also had 3 steals for what it's worth.

I bring this up because he is putting up great numbers at a time when the rest of the league's stars are barely shooting over 40%.

He's currently averaging 23.8 ppg. If you take away the two games against the Magic (he played on one leg in the first game, and left the 2nd game early due to a back injury), he is averaging 29 ppg.

He is 69-151 from the field, which is a little under a .450 FG% if my Math is correct. Take away those 2 games against the Magic (a combined 6-26) and he is 63-126, which is exactly a .500 FG% for a jumpshooting SG.

Houston started the season 1-12 from 3pt range. Now that he is not bothered by injury, In his last 5 games he is 15-29 from 3pt range, a 55% mark. Even if you combine his numbers, he is still shooting a very respectable shade under 40% from 3pt range.

Allan Houston btw, is pretty much the main reason I still watch the Knicks, since I know many people have been asking what possible ray of light I see in this team. Houston right now is probably the best shooter in the league.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

He is really streaky. He could be an elite scorer this year, because the season is a wash. 

I had to turn off the game yet again, because it was a  fest.


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

They were down by as many as 1 in the 4th. What a snoozer.


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## Perennial All Star (Aug 13, 2003)

Deke injured,Van Horn horrible,W'Spoon playing,Eisley starting and Doleac getting 30 minutes?What else could go wrong?Sweetney playing was brilliant,giving him minutes when hes not expecting it,isnt.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

*Houston*

Houston has really elevated his game...Ill give him his props when he takes it to Mcgrady


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Rashidi</b>!
> They were down by as many as 1 in the 4th. What a snoozer.


Doesn't matter? 80-85 games are not fun to watch anymore. For 8 years I have gotten sick of watching them now. I had no doubt the Nets would beat the Knicks, close score or not. 

I am glad you love the Knicks, but it's time to face reality. The team bites.


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

> I had no doubt the Nets would beat the Knicks, close score or not.


I actually thought before the game that the Nets were due a loss. They've been reeling of late. Problem is the Knicks started reeling once Deke left the game.



> I am glad you love the Knicks, but it's time to face reality. The team bites.


I am nowhere near the Knick fanboy you'd like to make me out to be, I purposefully make myself appear to be more optimistic about the team because it is a lot more colorful than your basic "Knicks suck they are the worst team in the league and all their players suck so bad that they would lose to my high school team" attitude that has become rather contagious with a fair share of Knick fans. I speculate on how many of those fans were even fans pre-Sprewell.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

It just sucks for me because I am just not enjoying the basketball being played at the Pro or College Level (St. John's) here in Metro area right now.


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## Perennial All Star (Aug 13, 2003)

Knicks just plain flat out suck.Play the damn rooks!


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

> Knicks just plain flat out suck.Play the damn rooks!


Sweetney played tonight, as did Frank Williams.


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## NYCbballFan (Jun 8, 2003)

Houston is making a very good case as an elite scorer. It's hard to think of him as one because he relies on mid-range and deep jumpers so much, and lacks the close-in game owned by most of the elite scorers. He's like a short Dirk Nowitski as a scorer.


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## KokoTheMonkey (Aug 4, 2003)

The thing that is keeping Houston from being an elite scorer in my mind is his ball handling ability. If he could develop some solid moves off the dribble, then he could easily be an elite scorer. He is such a good shooter though that he still might be an elite scorer.


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## NYCbballFan (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>rohawk24</b>!
> The thing that is keeping Houston from being an elite scorer in my mind is his ball handling ability. If he could develop some solid moves off the dribble, then he could easily be an elite scorer. He is such a good shooter though that he still might be an elite scorer.


Yeah, that's what makes Houston unorthodox as a scorer. Most SG scorers mix up drives and jumpers, and score off of a variety of moves. Houston can barely handle the ball well enough to get off a mid-range jumper. Even Ray Allen, a comparable shooter to Houston, drives and finishes around the basket much better than Houston does. Houston doesn't blow by anybody, doesn't create much space, and is forced to shoot over and sometimes around defenders. As long as he keeps hitting his jumpers, though, the PPG, FT% and FG% define him as an elite scorer.

Last season, we could credit Sprewell for Houston's output. If Houston can keep up his scoring output in this year's dysfunctional Knicks offense, he deserves to be credited as one of the NBA's elite scoring SGs.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

*The lone wolf*

Witout you rashidi,this board would be as bad as the Knicks..you offer a fresh perspective and certainly have the most optomism on the board...

Houston is one of the best shooters in the game and doent get the credit he deserves due to his max contract and the fact that he rarely if ever takes it to the hole...

I think people view him as a shooter and not a scorer like a barron davis,A.I...But the fact is he puts up some very impressive numbers..Personally,I still need to see him light up Mcgrady


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## The True Essence (May 26, 2003)

hes a great shooter and he makes alot of tough jumpers, but he really cant get to the basket and that takes away from his game.



> It just sucks for me because I am just not enjoying the basketball being played at the Pro or College Level (St. John's) here in Metro area right now.


i dont know about you, but i love the effort st johns gives on defense. the offense on the other hand....


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>PennyHardaway</b>!
> 
> i dont know about you, but i love the effort st johns gives on defense. the offense on the other hand....


They are not going to be very good this year. They do play good D, but the offense and the team is really weak.


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

> Yeah, that's what makes Houston unorthodox as a scorer. Most SG scorers mix up drives and jumpers, and score off of a variety of moves. Houston can barely handle the ball well enough to get off a mid-range jumper. Even Ray Allen, a comparable shooter to Houston, drives and finishes around the basket much better than Houston does. Houston doesn't blow by anybody, doesn't create much space, and is forced to shoot over and sometimes around defenders. As long as he keeps hitting his jumpers, though, the PPG, FT% and FG% define him as an elite scorer.


One play that stuck out in my mind for whatever reason last night, is at the 4:30 mark in the 1st quarter, Houston cut to the basket, and I thought he was going to pull up for a layup or jumper, but instead he kicked it out to Shandon Anderson for a 3 (he bricked it, but that's not the point).

One of the things that is viewed as Houston's weakness is his ability to drive and dish, like Sprewell did. Houston has shown that he can do it on occasion, the problem is there really isn't anybody he can kick it out to. Sprewell could kick it out to Houston, but Houston really doesn't have anybody, especially when VH is off the floor.


Right now Houston is 5th in the league in scoring, 4th among SGs.

The top 10 are
1. Iverson 30.9
2. McGrady 26.3
3. Davis 25.6
4. Carter 24.4
5. Houston 23.9
6. Lewis 23.7
7. Stojakovic 23.1
8. Murray 22.7
9. Maggette 22.4
10. Shaq 22.2


Van Horn (16.4) is tied for 40th with Tim Thomas
Hopefully he keeps it up, because they aren't going to leave somebody 5th in the league in scoring off the all-star team.

For what it's worth, the top 5 are all from the east, and the bottom 5 are all from the west.

Houston takes at least 2 fewer FGA than all 4 of the players listed ahead of him.

Iverson 24.0 fga
McGrady 22.3 fga
Davis 21.0 fga
Carter 21.3 fga
Houston 18.9 fga

What I like is that he's averaging 5.0 fta

Iverson 10.9 fta
McGrady 6.0 fta
Davis 5.4 fta
Carter 6.1 fta
Houston 5.0 fta
Lewis 4.9 fta
Stojakovic 3.9 fta
Murray 6.6 fta
Maggette 6.8 fta
Shaq 9.2 fta

He's getting to the line more than Stojakovic, a player who is considered on the same level of shooting as Houston, and he isn't far behind the 3 guys above him. When you're a jumpshooter and only averaging 1 ft less than McGrady and Carter, you're doing something right.


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## Jmonty580 (Jun 20, 2003)

true fans stick by thier teams thru thick and thin. Am I going to tell you that the knicks are going to the Finals? No, but they could still make the playoffs, your forgetting about McDyess. He come back and could give an extar 10 pts and 10 boards a game, this team will be winning alot more games, and probably would have won alot of the games we have lost so far this year. Without Dice this team defenieltely isnt great, and I might even say they suck but you cant deny Houston his credit. The Guy continues to put up great numbers, and by strictly shooting. People always say that he's so one demensional, but all that matters is that he gets the job done. Shaq is one demensional, but it doesnt matter casue he puts the points on the board. People need to stop hating and give this man some credit. The knicks need help, but as a fan I gotta stay with my team when there good and when they suck. There no use beating a dead horse, if the knicks suck, then they suck, there no need to say it over and over just let their actions speak for them.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

*Shaq*

"Shaq is one demensional"

Which one dimension is Shaq in???Wherever it is,its a dam good dimension...I hear ya


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

*Re: Shaq*

Houston =20-23 pts a game. Thats it


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## hatnlvr (Aug 14, 2003)

Alright I'm going opposite here. Houston actually has a good handle (much better than Spree does), he can go both directions and has good control of the ball with both hands. Houston problem is he is not explosive, if you ever watch him he has no first step everything with him is finesse. He only appears not to have a handle because he is so slow with it and if you watch him jump he is slow to the rim "NO EXPLOSIVENESS". I can remember when he played for Detroit Doug Collins actually had them do a jumping contest in practice and Houston had the highest vertical "YES HIGHER THAN GRANT HILL!!!!". Problem no explosiveness!!

Now knowing that Allan isn't going to take anyone off the dribble the coach should use his height and shooting touch as an advantage. The only way Houston could become an elite scorer is if he found ways to get more points closer to the basket (not 18-23 feet away). If Houston posted up smaller guards and got more points inside (hell he is 6'6"!!) he could be an elite scorer. Problem is at his age he isn't going to change so essentially he'll drop 20+ on a bad team but with his game he really should only be a complementary player.

Just my $.02


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

> Houston =20-23 pts a game. Thats it


That's it?

You talk like shooting percentages don't mean anything...

Reggie Miller was ALSO good for 20-23 points per game. That's it. But I didn't see anybody complaining about his weak rebound and assist numbers.



> Alright I'm going opposite here. Houston actually has a good handle (much better than Spree does), he can go both directions and has good control of the ball with both hands.


I don't think so. Houston has a tendency to get stripped by good ball thieves, Sprewell not so much.



> If Houston posted up smaller guards and got more points inside (hell he is 6'6"!!)


He does that. Problem is there aren't many small guards left. I can't think of any starting SG other than David Wesley who is shorter than 6'5.



> I can remember when he played for Detroit Doug Collins actually had them do a jumping contest in practice and Houston had the highest vertical


Houston was in the dunk contest in his rookie year.


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## Jmonty580 (Jun 20, 2003)

I find that the main people that dont give Houston any credit are knicks fans. When I talk about the knicks and basketball with other people who arent knicks fans, they all talk about how good Houston is. 20 - 23 ppg, since when are those bad numbers? If he finishes the season with 23 ppg this season he will probably be around the 8th - 10th best scorer in the league, not bad huh? Sure Houston doesnt run and dunk and doesnt look as good as t-mac, peirce, or Kobe but he gets the job done. 

The thing that is stopping Houston from being considered an Elite sg is not his numbers its his team. When the knicks where a playoff team I could remember Houston and Spree getting on the All-star team over Pierce and Walker. If this knicks team where by some remote chance finish the season as a playoff team and get far into the playoffs, Houston would get alot more credit. I dont care how the man gets the points as long as he gets them. Looks like shooting is becoming more important as teams start to rely on zone defenses so Houston could become more valuable. Also keep in mind that the season is still very new and Houston started out with a sore knee and back that still give him alittle pain, he could do better in a week or two.

Maybe I over value Houston but I just wish more people would give this man some credit.


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## hatnlvr (Aug 14, 2003)

> I don't think so. Houston has a tendency to get stripped by good ball thieves, Sprewell not so much.


Houston get's stripped not because he has a bad handle or no control, he get's stripped because he is slow and methodical with his dribble and the defenders can anticipate his moves and strip him.

As far as 20-23 you guys missed my point on that. He get's those numbers because he is the focal point of the offense but if he was on a team with a quality big man he wouldn't put up those kind of numbers. He is a very good player but you cannot be an elite scorer if you cannot create your own offense.


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

> but if he was on a team with a quality big man he wouldn't put up those kind of numbers. He is a very good player but you cannot be an elite scorer if you cannot create your own offense.


1. With a quality big man, he REALLY becomes Reggie Miller. Quality big men create shots on the perimeter for guards. Houston would thrive in such a role. His shooting percentage would go up, making his points all that more efficient.

2. Houston can already create his own shot. He is the best in the league at creating space for himself on the perimeter. All he needs is a very small amount of space to pull up and drill one in his opponents face from 18-25. Reggie Miller could also create his own shot in a similar manner.

The similarities between Miller and Houston are many. The only reason nobody dogs Miller is because the Pacers had better teams than Houston has had (and thus more success in the playoffs).


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## MentalPowerHouse (Oct 9, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Rashidi</b>!
> He's currently averaging 23.8 ppg. If you take away the two games against the Magic (he played on one leg in the first game, and left the 2nd game early due to a back injury), he is averaging 29 ppg.


Why do people always want to remove the bad games when talking about a player and raise their averages. Bad games and games played with injuries are apart of every players averages, taking them out no longer makes his stats comparable at all.


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

> Bad games and games played with injuries are apart of every players averages, taking them out no longer makes his stats comparable at all.


The point I was making is that he has been hot at the start of the season.

How many other players have played through injuries so far? Very few, especially among the players that are leading the league in scoring.

Over an 82 game season, obviously injuries balance out, but we are talking about the first 10 games.


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## NYCbballFan (Jun 8, 2003)

I agree Houston would be as good a scorer on pretty much any kind of team. Given his limitations, he actually shouldn't be scoring as much as the focus of opposing defenses, as the focal point of the Knicks offense. If he can get off shots with defenses keying in on him now, he definitely would score on teams with other scorers to focus on. As long as Houston hit his shots, he'd get more shots. 

Interesting point about his lack of explosiveness. He routinely gets plenty of height on his jump when he shoots, but yet can barely get to the rim on a dunk attempt. As far as his handle, he is a coach's kid which means he's well-schooled. He's just not naturally gifted.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>NYCbballFan</b>!
> Interesting point about his lack of explosiveness. He routinely gets plenty of height on his jump when he shoots, but yet can barely get to the rim on a dunk attempt. As far as his handle, he is a coach's kid which means he's well-schooled. He's just not naturally gifted.


I still dont understand where his athleticism went. He was a pretty good dunker in college and first year in the league


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## hatnlvr (Aug 14, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BEEZ</b>!
> 
> 
> I still dont understand where his athleticism went. He was a pretty good dunker in college and first year in the league


Houston was never explosive. He can still get up now but he looks like he's moving in slow motion.


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