# NBA Draft Lottery order thread....Ooooooh.



## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

Who will get no. 1??


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## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

14. Minnesota T'Wolves
13. Charlotte Bobcats
12. LA. Clippers
11. Orlando Magic
10. LA Lakers
9. Golden State Warriors
8. NY Knicks
7. Toronto Raptors
6. Utah Jazz (uh oh. moved down two)
5. Charlotte Bobcats (moved down two)
4. New Orleans Hornets (moved down two)


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## -33- (Aug 6, 2002)

My prediction
1. Atlanta
2. Portland
3. Milwaukee


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

I'm hoping Atlanta gets #1, Bucks get #2 and Portland #3.


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## Charlotte_______ (May 18, 2003)

**** we dropped to the 5th pick. Im pissed


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

..

Wow, Bucks.


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## HeinzGuderian (Jun 29, 2004)

Bobcats and Hornets got screwed over.


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## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

3. Portland Trailblazers
2. Atlanta Hawks
1. Milwaukee Bucks


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## Charlotte_______ (May 18, 2003)

Ok, who do the Bucks take?


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## -33- (Aug 6, 2002)

1 milwaukee
2 atlanta
3 portland


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## deanwoof (Mar 10, 2003)

the guy from milwaukie is SHAKING


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## Captain Obvious (Jun 15, 2003)

Bogut to Milwaukee, book it. Atlanta will have a tough choice between Williams and Paul. I have no idea what Portland will do at 3, that seems too early to take Green.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

Charlotte_______ said:


> Ok, who do the Bucks take?


They could probably use any of the top 3 - Bogut, Williams, or Paul depending on whether Ford can return healthy.

I'm gonna guess they'll go with Marvin.


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## Jwill55gRizZ (Jun 8, 2003)

deanwoof said:


> the guy from milwaukie is SHAKING


Do the Bucks have fans? i have not really ran into many on this board.. (not a shot, an actual question).


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Bucks have to take Bogut. They need a legit big in the worst way and he'd resign with them too. This guy is going to be much better than Brad Miller (who people are comparing him to). Heck I think he's as good as Brad Miller right now.


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## HeinzGuderian (Jun 29, 2004)

I think Mil will go with Bogut. They need size the most. I wouldn't mind seeing Marvin going their though. Better than Atlanta. I think Atlanta takes a PG though, they have the Smiths on the wings right now. They needed Bogut the most of anybody. Maybe portland trades their pick.


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## TONYALLEN42 (Jan 24, 2005)

im in shock, i cant believe the bucks got #1


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## Starbury03 (Aug 12, 2003)

They should pick Bogut


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## DHarris34Phan (Oct 28, 2004)

*Visit the Bucks Forum for all details, and more. This is a great day in Bucks history, and we will be in the playoffs next year, count on it!*


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## pinetar (Oct 12, 2004)

Captain Obvious said:


> Bogut to Milwaukee, book it. Atlanta will have a tough choice between Williams and Paul. I have no idea what Portland will do at 3, that seems too early to take Green.


If Bogut is gone, I think Atlanta will either take Paul or trade the pick.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

1. Milwaukee - Andrew Bogut
2. Atlanta - Marvin Williams (or trade)
3. Portland - trade or Chris Paul
4. New Orleans - Deron Williams
5. Charlotte - Raymond Felton or Gerald Green 

That's my top 5, unless a trade goes down. Atlanta is going to have to deal a wing in the off-season. If they feel that Josh and Marvin are their swing players (neither are 4 man), then send Childress and Diaw packing. I think Josh proved he could play the SG position just fine.


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## Spoolie Gee (Feb 3, 2005)

My early top 3 pick prediction assuming no trades...

Mil- Bogut
Atl- Paul
Por- Williams


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## Charlotte_______ (May 18, 2003)

How bout 5th and 13th for #2


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## Ezmo (May 11, 2003)

1. Milwaukee - Andrew Bogut
2. Atlanta - Chris Paul
3. Portland - Marvin Williams
4. New Orleans - Gerald Green
5. Charlotte - Ray Felton or Deron Williams

Thats my 5 assuming each team saves their pick.


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## Spoolie Gee (Feb 3, 2005)

Charlotte_______ said:


> How bout 5th and 13th for #2


 
I bet Portland would do that for the #3 depending on how work-outs go.


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## BULLS23 (Apr 13, 2003)

Damn, was MIL even on the radar to win the #1 pick? I think they take Bogut even though it is tough to pass on Marvin.

Even though I hate to say it, ATL takes Paul . . . Not a shot against Paul, he will be good but I think he is too small for the L right now. I actually hope the Hawks trade out of #2.

Portland takes Marvin and laughs at eveyone else in the Draft . . .


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## sheefo13 (Jul 13, 2002)

im bumbed that the wolves only got the 14th but I am happy the neighbors got the number 1!!!


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## Geaux Tigers (Apr 26, 2004)

Sad sad day for Hornets fans...


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

Ezmo said:


> 1. Milwaukee - Andrew Bogut
> 2. Atlanta - Chris Paul
> 3. Portland - Marvin Williams
> 4. New Orleans - Gerald Green
> ...


That's about what I'm thinking right now. New Orleans might draft a PG instead of Green so they can have someone get the ball easier to JR Smith in the future. Charlotte will probably end up drafting a PG even if Green is there because of Gerald Wallace. Raymond Felton would be great.


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## QRICH (Feb 2, 2004)

Mil : Bogut 
Atl: Paul
Por: Williams


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## Debt Collector (Mar 13, 2003)

atlanta needs to take paul or deron williams. they dont need marvin williams as long as harrington and josh smith are on the roster. if they have a lineup of paul, childress, smith, harrington, they are a big man away from being in the playoffs. its almost better this way because it forces them to take a PG. there arent many decent FA pg's, whereas there are a few good big men available.


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## Pure Scorer (Jul 20, 2002)

Milwaukee is gonna take bogut, atlanta will take paul or deron... portland will take? Marvin Williams? Does he fit? Do they care? I think he's the obvious choice if he's on the board at 3..


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

I can't see Atlanta taking Chris Paul over Marvin Williams. I just can't. They'll go talent first with this pick IMO, since they can't get Bogut to anchor the middle. Hopefully in 06, they'll win the lottery and have Greg Oden coming to Hotlanta.

Marvin Williams and Josh Smith, might be tantamount to putting Jamal Mashburn and Dominique Wilkins together in their primes. Not to mention, those were the top two wings in the 2004 HS class. I'd take Marvin if I was Billy Knight and trade my other swing men. There are PG's in the 2006 draft, and they will probably have Boston's pick (or the Lakers).


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## Debt Collector (Mar 13, 2003)

HKF said:


> I can't see Atlanta taking Chris Paul over Marvin Williams. I just can't. They'll go talent first with this pick IMO, since they can't get Bogut to anchor the middle. Hopefully in 06, they'll win the lottery and have Greg Oden coming to Hotlanta.


yea but if you have marvin, what do you do about harrington? if they have a harrington trade in the works for a big, then fine. im assuming josh smith is pretty much untouchable. but can marvin play PF in the NBA?


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

I actually see it going like this:

1. Milwaukee Marvin Williams
2. Atlanta Chris Paul
3. Portland Andrew Bogut
4. New Orleans Gerald Green
5. Charlotte Deron Williams

If TJ Ford is going to be healthy, the Bucks are going to want to run and Marvin Williams at PF/SF lets them do that.


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## LeTrev (May 20, 2005)

I'm not sure how credible he is, but ESPN's Chad Ford thinks the Bucks will take Marvin. A mistake IMO.


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## DHarris34Phan (Oct 28, 2004)

*The Bucks are going to take Bogut. Bank on it.*


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## WhoDaBest23 (Apr 16, 2003)

Wow the Bucks won the lottery...

It's gonna be a toss-up between Bogut and Marvin for the Bucks. Bogut fits a big need, but Marvin has star potential. Early prediction...

1. Milwaukee - Bogut
2. Atlanta - Paul
3. Portland - Marvin :rbanana:


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## DHarris34Phan (Oct 28, 2004)

MemphisX said:


> If TJ Ford is going to be healthy, the Bucks are going to want to run and Marvin Williams at PF/SF lets them do that.


*True, but we still would have noone to anchor the inside. Gadzuric is decent, but he really can't do it all himself. I think that true Centers are harder to come by than 3's, so the Bogut choice is obvious IMO.

PG-TJ Ford/Mo Williams
SG-Michael Redd
SF-Desmond Mason
PF-Joe Smith/Zaza Pachulia
C-Andrew Bogut/Dan Gadzuric

Quality Depth @ the 2 and 3 is the only problem there. With a good 2nd round pick, we will be able to fill one of those holes, and with almost 10 million dollars in caproom after signing Redd, Pachulia and Gadz, we can fill the other holes. The Bucks will be in the playoffs next year.*


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

MemphisX said:


> I actually see it going like this:
> 
> 1. Milwaukee Marvin Williams
> 2. Atlanta Chris Paul
> ...


Doubtful that New Orleans would take Gerald Green over Deron Williams. For one, Deron would fit into the Princeton offense perfectly, while Green isn't going to start over JR (and would need to play the 3), besides New Orleans is going to throw MAX money at Joe Johnson (to play the 3) and still has Gerald Lynch coming off the bench. They also have the 32nd pick in the draft (and could draft Sean Banks out of Memphis, if they really wanted to take a chance on a guy in the 2nd round who has top 10 talent, but questionable character).

I think New Orleans takes a PG over anything else (unless Marvin was at 5, which he won't be). They are letting Claxton go and they would re-sign Dickau. That's not enough at the point.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Yeah if the Bucks don't draft Bogut their GM deserves to be dragged out into the street and shot.

Centers like him don't just fall into your lap every year.

What's interesting to see is what Portland does with the number 3.

I bet they trade down to pick up Green.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

DHarris34Phan said:


> *True, but we still would have noone to anchor the inside. Gadzuric is decent, but he really can't do it all himself. I think that true Centers are harder to come by than 3's, so the Bogut choice is obvious IMO.
> 
> PG-TJ Ford/Mo Williams
> SG-Michael Redd
> ...


Why not play Bogut and Gadzuric together at the same time? Gadzuric is athletic enough to play the 4, no?


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## Debt Collector (Mar 13, 2003)

DHarris34Phan said:


> *The Bucks are going to take Bogut. Bank on it.*



i agree. pretty much a gift from god to the bucks fans, they couldnt have asked for a better fortune. if a true #1 center is on the board and you dont have one, you take him.

congrats btw.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

DHarris34Phan said:


> *True, but we still would have noone to anchor the inside. Gadzuric is decent, but he really can't do it all himself. I think that true Centers are harder to come by than 3's, so the Bogut choice is obvious IMO.
> 
> PG-TJ Ford/Mo Williams
> SG-Michael Redd
> ...



I'm with you. The Bucks have a chance to get a quality Center for the next 10 years at least. Plus, depth at the 2/3 is the easiest spot to fill in the NBA. Sign Flip Murray, Willie Green or Raja Bell and re-sign Toni Kukoc and you've got a legit 10 man rotation.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

futuristxen said:


> Why not play Bogut and Gadzuric together at the same time? Gadzuric is athletic enough to play the 4, no?


1. Joe Smith is still better than him.
2. Gadzuric gets tired easily and has poor hands (unless he's catching alleyoops).


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## Debt Collector (Mar 13, 2003)

sucks for utah to get booted out of deron williams range. are they gonna reach for felton at #6? that would piss the lakers off.


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## Geaux Tigers (Apr 26, 2004)

Im not done thinking the Hornets can grab Chris Paul...

Milwaukee takes Bogut
Atlanta takes best available in Marvin Williams
Portland wont take Paul because they have Telfair
New Orleans gets Chris Paul

Im not saying thats how its going to go down and in fact I dont see Atlanta taking a SF but its a possibility.


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## Bron_Melo_ROY (Apr 12, 2004)

Andrew Bogut looks to be the #1 pick IMO, followed by Chris Paul to A-Town but I'm not so sure what Portland will do wit da 3rd.


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## Chris Bosh #4 (Feb 18, 2005)

Bron_Melo_ROY said:


> Andrew Bogut looks to be the #1 pick IMO, followed by Chris Paul to A-Town but I'm not so sure what Portland will do wit da 3rd.


Marvin Williams?


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

Debt Collector said:


> yea but if you have marvin, what do you do about harrington? if they have a harrington trade in the works for a big, then fine. im assuming josh smith is pretty much untouchable. but can marvin play PF in the NBA?


A Harrington trade or not should be irrelevant in there decision.

Harrington is not good enough a player to dictate how you chose amongst top 5 "franchise" type draft picks.


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## DHarris34Phan (Oct 28, 2004)

futuristxen said:


> Why not play Bogut and Gadzuric together at the same time? Gadzuric is athletic enough to play the 4, no?


*HKF said it best, Joe Smith is still VERY servicable (people tend to forget he is only 29 years only), especially with a true center down there. I have said it in the Bucks Forum, that Gadzuric is best suited as a 15-20 minute guy off the bench ala Tyson Chandler.....He will flourish as the first big man off the bench. *


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## KB21 (Jun 20, 2003)

Things to consider with the Hawks. Al Harrington is going into the last year of his contract, so it isn't like drafting Marvin Williams won't be filling a need. Of all the players in the draft, Marvin Williams seems to fit the criterion that Billy Knight loves in a player.......long, versatile, and athletic. A tandem of Marvin Williams and Josh Smith at the 3/4 positions will be very tempting. The question will be if Billy sees Al Harrington as a long term fixture for the team.

Chris Paul fills an important need for the Hawks as well though. They need a point guard in the worst way, and they need the perimeter shooting he brings. The one thing that may sway them away from Paul is his size. Billy Knight has a goal to make the Hawks a long, athletic team that can run and defend. Paul lacks the length, but that shouldn't be a big thing, IMO. Paul may lack the defensive ability they are looking for though. It's tough though, because I think Chris Paul has a certain "it" factor about him.

Enter Deron Williams. He's got the size and defensive ability the Hawks will be looking for, and he's a good perimeter shooter, though not nearly as good as Chris Paul in that department. Deron knows how to run an offense and make the players around him better.

I'm not going to say that Deron is the guy the Hawks will take, but I will say don't rule him out. All the talk will center around Marvin Williams and Chris Paul, but Deron is a guy that may sneak into that mix.


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## Debt Collector (Mar 13, 2003)

JuniorNoboa said:


> A Harrington trade or not should be irrelevant in there decision.
> 
> Harrington is not good enough a player to dictate how you chose amongst top 5 "franchise" type draft picks.


obviously harrington by himself isnt gonna dictate who the hawks select, but the hawks have depth at SF-PF, compared to zero at PG. they may decide to draft for the long term with williams, but the long term still looks shaky without a legitimate PG. they already have their SF of the future (smith)


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

So. Neither the Lakers nor the Knicks moved up into the top 3. 

That means the thing _isn't_ rigged, right? This basically proves it. So people can finally STFU forever about it being fixed now? Right?


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

Raptors didn't move up or down so I'm not too dissapointed. It's kind of good news, because Portland probably won't pick Green with the 3rd pick.
Any chance the Raptors can snatch him at 7?


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## Geaux Tigers (Apr 26, 2004)

Turkish Delight said:


> Raptors didn't move up or down so I'm not too dissapointed. It's kind of good news, because Portland probably won't pick Green with the 3rd pick.
> Any chance the Raptors can snatch him at 7?


Really depends on the workouts but I dont see it happening.


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## Ps!ence_Fiction (Aug 1, 2004)

I personally could see both Portland and Atlanta trading their picks. Atlanta might not want to take Paul at 2, and might trade down, though I think Paul would be a good choice for them. Portland already has a lot of talent on the wing, D. Miles, Travis Outlaw and Viktor Khryapa and may be looking for trade instead of taking Marvin Williams since they could get a *LOT* for that pick. I could see a team like Toronto or Charlotte, who both have two good picks trying to trade for that Atlanta pick or the Portland pick. Both Toronto and Charlotte would really benefit from either Marvin or Paul and I could see one, or maybe even both of them, moving up to get those picks.


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## SeaNet (Nov 18, 2004)

Rawse said:


> So. Neither the Lakers nor the Knicks moved up into the top 3.
> 
> *That means the thing isn't rigged, right? This basically proves it. So people can finally STFU forever about it being fixed now? Right?*


Don't count on it. Its an annual tradition.


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## SeaNet (Nov 18, 2004)

Mil - Bogut
Atl - Williams
Port - ???

I don't see Atl passing on Williams. You need great big people to win in this league, and you don't get the opportunity to get a great big people every day. When you do, you've got to snap them up. Williams will either become a SF who can bang, or he may fill out and become a do-it-all PF.


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

I imagine that Portland will look for someone from the California Penal League so as not to screw up their team chemistry


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## Killuminati (Jul 30, 2002)

Rawse said:


> So. Neither the Lakers nor the Knicks moved up into the top 3.
> 
> That means the thing _isn't_ rigged, right? This basically proves it. So people can finally STFU forever about it being fixed now? Right?


Heh, I was just thinking about that. Good point. :clap: 


Anyways, Bucks would be stupid not to take Bogut. If Ford comes back fully healthy next year and they can re-sign Redd they're looking good/better in a stacked Central division.


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## DHarris34Phan (Oct 28, 2004)

Rawse said:


> So. Neither the Lakers nor the Knicks moved up into the top 3.
> 
> That means the thing _isn't_ rigged, right? This basically proves it. So people can finally STFU forever about it being fixed now? Right?


*No...the NBA would love having Bogut, another possible internation sensation, in Milwaukee, as opposed to LA or NYK *


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## jokeaward (May 22, 2003)

Charlotte_______ said:


> **** we dropped to the 5th pick. Im pissed


That does suck. Bogut (twin towers), M Williams (uber-talented, UNC), Paul (silky, also from NC), or D Williams (proven, dependable, great vision).

Though it's sort of a 4-player draft, Okafor and Green wouldn't be so bad.


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## maxrider (May 9, 2005)

If I'm Milwaukee, I will draft Marvin Williams instead of Andrew Bogut.
Dan Gadzuric is playing pretty good for them last season.


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## SeaNet (Nov 18, 2004)

maxrider said:


> If I'm Milwaukee, I will draft Marvin Williams instead of Andrew Bogut.
> Dan Gadzuric is playing pretty good for them last season.


You would pass on Bogut because you've got Gadzuric!?!?!?! Gadzuric is a back-up Center. No more, no less. Milwaukee has been desperate for quality bigs for pretty much ever (well, maybe not when Cummings and the army of 7-2+ white guys were around), and you'd pass on Bogut because you've got Gadzuric?!?!?!?


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## DHarris34Phan (Oct 28, 2004)

SeaNet said:


> You would pass on Bogut because you've got Gadzuric!?!?!?! Gadzuric is a back-up Center. No more, no less. Milwaukee has been desperate for quality bigs for pretty much ever (well, maybe not when Cummings and the army of 7-2+ white guys were around), and you'd pass on Bogut because you've got Gadzuric?!?!?!?


*Exactly...Bogut is the obvious pick for this team....Marvin Williams is good, but a sure thing in Bogut is too hard to pass.*


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## RP McMurphy (Jul 17, 2003)

Dan Gadzuric is not a good enough player to affect your decision of what to do with a lottery pick, let alone the first overall pick. That would be like Cleveland drafting Trajan Langdon ahead of Corey Maggette, Ron Artest, and Andrei Kirilenko because they though they were set at small forward with Cedric Henderson.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

RP McMurphy said:


> Dan Gadzuric is not a good enough player to affect your decision of what to do with a lottery pick, let alone the first overall pick. That would be like Cleveland drafting Trajan Langdon ahead of Corey Maggette, Ron Artest, and Andrei Kirilenko because they though they were set at small forward with Cedric Henderson.



Which I'm sure was Jim Paxson's thought process. :laugh:


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## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

futuristxen said:


> Which I'm sure was Jim Paxson's thought process. :laugh:


It would be funnier if it wasn't true.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

As a Portland fan, I think that Portland keeps the pick if Williams is still on the board at #3 (I agree Atlanta would be silly to draft need over talent, but it happens) and trades back if Williams (and, obviously, Bogut) are gone.

If possible, a trade something along the lines of the #3 to New Orleans for the #5 and #13, where they can snag Gerald Green and someone like Martell Webster, respectively.

But I'm definitely hoping Williams sneaks through the Bucks and Atlanta.


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

TheATLien said:


> It would be funnier if it wasn't true.


Nah it wouldn't. It's hilarious as is. :laugh:


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

Diable said:


> I imagine that Portland will look for someone from the California Penal League so as not to screw up their team chemistry


7 years ago called. they want their joke back.


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## Casual (Jun 2, 2003)

Charlotte would have to be madly in love with Marvin Williams or Chris Paul to trade two lotto picks for one. That is not a fair trade in a draft like this.


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## DHarris34Phan (Oct 28, 2004)

Casual said:


> Charlotte would have to be madly in love with Marvin Williams or Chris Paul to trade two lotto picks for one. That is not a fair trade in a draft like this.


*They probably are madly in love with both of them...who wouldn't be?*


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## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

DHarris34Phan said:


> *They probably are madly in love with both of them...who wouldn't be?*


Julius Hodge. :rofl:


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## thekid (Apr 3, 2003)

Spoolie Gee said:


> I bet Portland would do that for the #3 depending on how work-outs go.


They could nab someone like Green at 5 or Wright or whoemever at 13.


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## Vermillion (Mar 23, 2004)

I'd say the best IMHO order is Bogut, Paul, then Marvin.

Jeez...if Atlanta takes Marvin Williams, Portland would probably be forced to take Green a little early, allowing Paul to slip.


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## Yao Mania (Aug 4, 2003)

Jwill55gRizZ said:


> Do the Bucks have fans? i have not really ran into many on this board.. (not a shot, an actual question).


Never seen a poster by the name of #1Bucksfan?

I think Milwaukee should consider a sign-and-trade for Gadzuric, I don't think Dan will be happy competing w/ a rookie for a starting position next year, even if it is the #1 pick.


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## sMaK (Jun 13, 2002)

MemphisX said:


> I actually see it going like this:
> 
> 1. Milwaukee Marvin Williams
> 2. Atlanta Chris Paul
> ...


I agree with the first pick, but I think Bogut goes at 2 and Paul falls to 4, with Green going at 3.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Yao Mania said:


> Never seen a poster by the name of #1Bucksfan?
> 
> I think Milwaukee should consider a sign-and-trade for Gadzuric, I don't think Dan will be happy competing w/ a rookie for a starting position next year, even if it is the #1 pick.


Dan isn't a starting C in the NBA. Who cares if he isn't happy?


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## PureStreetzH2O (Feb 19, 2005)

Ps!ence_Fiction said:


> I personally could see both Portland and Atlanta trading their picks. Atlanta might not want to take Paul at 2, and might trade down, though I think Paul would be a good choice for them. Portland already has a lot of talent on the wing, D. Miles, Travis Outlaw and Viktor Khryapa and may be looking for trade instead of taking Marvin Williams since they could get a *LOT* for that pick. I could see a team like Toronto or Charlotte, who both have two good picks trying to trade for that Atlanta pick or the Portland pick. Both Toronto and Charlotte would really benefit from either Marvin or Paul and I could see one, or maybe even both of them, moving up to get those picks.


Toronto would never trade two first rounders to move up in the draft, we just need some talented and skilled young players here, so if anything we would send off a trade with players and a pick, but not both


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## giusd (Apr 17, 2003)

I haven't seen much of Green but based on what i have seen he is going to be a star. He really does look like a young Tmac. No way he falls past Portland. I guess if portland traded down for the 5th and 13th they might still get him at 5. But NO is at 4 and they need a SF/SG bad to match with Smith so i dont see green lasting until 4. So bottom line. Green goes 3rd and NO lets there PG with the 4th pick. Poor Dan Dickoh he goes from starter and kicking buttt to back to the bench.

david


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## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

giusd said:


> I haven't seen much of Green but based on what i have seen he is going to be a star. He really does look like a young Tmac. No way he falls past Portland. I guess if portland traded down for the 5th and 13th they might still get him at 5. But NO is at 4 and they need a SF/SG bad to match with Smith so i dont see green lasting until 4. So bottom line. Green goes 3rd and NO lets there PG with the 4th pick. Poor Dan Dickoh he goes from starter and kicking buttt to back to the bench.
> 
> david



If NO drafts Paul then "poor Dan Dickau" goes from starter and kicking butt to another team. He's a free agent.

Green will be a Trailblazer unless the team is convinced he is a SF instead of a SG. Or unless the team thinks Marvin Williams can bulk up to Amare Stoudemire like status. Either way I don't see Bogut falling to #3...(thankfully) There is also some chitter chatter about Portland trading the pick and NVE's contract for an all - star SG.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

mediocre man said:


> If NO drafts Paul then "poor Dan Dickau" goes from starter and kicking butt to another team. He's a free agent.
> 
> Green will be a Trailblazer unless the team is convinced he is a SF instead of a SG. Or unless the team thinks Marvin Williams can bulk up to Amare Stoudemire like status. Either way I don't see Bogut falling to #3...(thankfully) There is also some chitter chatter about Portland trading the pick and NVE's contract for an all - star SG.


If you think Dan Dickau is a starting point guard in this league on a good team, you're insane.


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## maxrider (May 9, 2005)

HKF said:


> Dan isn't a starting C in the NBA. Who cares if he isn't happy?


I'll love to see him come to Houston.


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## maxrider (May 9, 2005)

I think Portland might trade down their pick to 4 or 5, so they can draft Gerald Green.
They got Joel Przybilla at center, he's pretty good last season.
PF they got Zach Randolph, SF they got Darius Miles and Ruben Patterson -- and Travis Outlaw. PG they got Sebastian Telfair. They only position they really need is SG. Derek Anderson is really bad last season. Portland tend to like to draft high school kid anyway. Yeah, so they don't really need Marvin Williams or Chris Paul, if they keep their pick, then they might trade the trouble Darius Miles or start both Telfair and Paul at the same time. Two 6 footer at the backcourt. That's going to be really bad.


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## jreywind (May 30, 2003)

I'm expecting the Jazz to move up in the draft. They were the ones that really got shafted in the Lottery. I see about 5 impact players in the draft...good thing they fell from 4 to 6 ouch. They just have too much interest in one of the point gaurds (Paul or DWIll) to not move up. They have a lot of picks to make that happen.


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## RP McMurphy (Jul 17, 2003)

HKF said:


> Dan isn't a starting C in the NBA. Who cares if he isn't happy?





HKF said:


> If you think Dan Dickau is a starting point guard in this league on a good team, you're insane.


Seriously, where did all these people come from that think teams aren't going to spend a top five pick on a guy, because they already have an average player at that position. The reason these teams have top five picks in the first place is because they've been starting guys like Dan Gadzuric and Dan Dickau.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

RP McMurphy said:


> Seriously, where did all these people come from that think teams aren't going to spend a top five pick on a guy, because they already have an average player at that position. The reason these teams have top five picks in the first place is because they've been starting guys like Dan Gadzuric and Dan Dickau.


this just made my signature. I don't know. You have guys who are 4-5 years younger who are already just as good if not better than they are (pro talent wise) and you're not going to draft them to appease Dan Gadzuric and Dan Dickau? Is it because they are named Dan? :clown:


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## jalen5 (Nov 19, 2004)

Here's how I see the top 4 going:

1. Milwaukee-- SF/PF Marvin Williams -- everybody debates this pick. Are they gonna take Marvin or Bogut??? I think they take Marvin and here's why. First of all, the Bucks dont have anyone on their roster (Gadzuric, Joe Smith, Kukoc, Calvin Booth, whoever) to discourage taking either Marvin Williams or Bogut. The question they have to ask themseleves is which player has the most potential and will be the better NBA player. The way I see it, the 2 players with the most UPSIDE and STAR POTENTIAL in this draft are Marvin Williams and Gerald Green. You know what you are getting with Bogut. He'll be a solid, but unspectacular center for a long time. I don't see him as a potential superstar though, and that's why I take Marvin Williams if I was Milwaukee (not b/c of the presence of Dan Gadzuric).

2. Atlanta -- C Andrew Bogut -- Atlanta needs both a PG and a Center. In the end, I think they go with Bogut.

3. Portland -- SG/SF Gerald Green -- No way Portland takes a PG with Telfair already there. Best player left with most potential is Green. And you know Portland loves those High Schoolers.

4. New Orleanse -- PG Chris Paul -- Hornets get very luck as Paul slides to #4. He was 2nd on my wish list for the Hornets, after Marvin Williams. Hornets take their point guard of the future here in Chris Paul. Hopefully, they can still sign Dickau to a contract as a backup. Dickau is not a starter on a good NBA team.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

jalen5 said:


> Here's how I see the top 4 going:
> 
> 1. Milwaukee-- SF/PF Marvin Williams -- everybody debates this pick. Are they gonna take Marvin or Bogut??? I think they take Marvin and here's why. First of all, the Bucks dont have anyone on their roster (Gadzuric, Joe Smith, Kukoc, Calvin Booth, whoever) to discourage taking either Marvin Williams or Bogut. The question they have to ask themseleves is which player has the most potential and will be the better NBA player. The way I see it, the 2 players with the most UPSIDE and STAR POTENTIAL in this draft are Marvin Williams and Gerald Green. You know what you are getting with Bogut. He'll be a solid, but unspectacular center for a long time. I don't see him as a potential superstar though, and that's why I take Marvin Williams if I was Milwaukee (not b/c of the presence of Dan Gadzuric).
> 
> ...



I could live with that, and I think (barring a swap of the first 2) you' could be spot on.


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## HORNETSFAN (Jun 11, 2002)

mediocre man said:


> If NO drafts Paul then "poor Dan Dickau" goes from starter and kicking butt to another team. He's a free agent.
> 
> Green will be a Trailblazer unless the team is convinced he is a SF instead of a SG. Or unless the team thinks Marvin Williams can bulk up to Amare Stoudemire like status. Either way I don't see Bogut falling to #3...(thankfully) There is also some chitter chatter about Portland trading the pick and NVE's contract for an all - star SG.


Do you honestly think Portland would pass on MWilliams for Green? I cannot see that. However, I would be ecstatic if they did.


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## Pure Scorer (Jul 20, 2002)

*pure scorer*



jalen5 said:


> Here's how I see the top 4 going:
> 
> 1. Milwaukee-- SF/PF Marvin Williams -- everybody debates this pick. Are they gonna take Marvin or Bogut??? I think they take Marvin and here's why. First of all, the Bucks dont have anyone on their roster (Gadzuric, Joe Smith, Kukoc, Calvin Booth, whoever) to discourage taking either Marvin Williams or Bogut. The question they have to ask themseleves is which player has the most potential and will be the better NBA player. The way I see it, the 2 players with the most UPSIDE and STAR POTENTIAL in this draft are Marvin Williams and Gerald Green. You know what you are getting with Bogut. He'll be a solid, but unspectacular center for a long time. I don't see him as a potential superstar though, and that's why I take Marvin Williams if I was Milwaukee (not b/c of the presence of Dan Gadzuric).


How does Bogut not have star potential? Just because you don't see him as a potential superstar it doesn't mean he isn't. Bogut will come into the league as one of the top 5 centers. He has good footwork, a good touch inside, great passing, and good awareness. His improvement in the last couple of years is unreal. To say he's topped off, or that he won't get even better just because he isn't a raw player is silly. He doesn't have amazing athleticism, but it's not as bad as everyone thinks. He isn't a stiff. He will be one of the best centers in the league, and in milwaukee's position (with an outside shooter like michael redd) taking a guy like bogut who can establish a 2man game would be the perfect choice. Desmond Mason is already at the 3 and he had a pretty good year last year (17/4/3) not amazing, but not a weakness like they have in the middle. I think potential-wise, and based on need, either way, milwaukee should go with bogut.


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## Foulzilla (Jan 11, 2005)

HORNETSFAN said:


> Do you honestly think Portland would pass on MWilliams for Green? I cannot see that. However, I would be ecstatic if they did.


I don't think so. I think Portland takes Williams if he's still there, Green if not. At least that's what I hope they do. And despite all his faults, John Nash does seem to be a fairly good evaluator of talent.


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## Pure Scorer (Jul 20, 2002)

Would it be plausible for atlanta and utah to do a trade like: 

#2 for #6 and a first round pick next year?

Utah only has one hole to fill at this point, so they won't really need their first rounder next year (and it will probably mid-late first, barring injury). This is their only way to pick up Deron Williams (or paul) if that is who they want.

Atlanta doesn't have a clear-cut choice at #2 (unless they want Williams, which i don't think they do.) If they trade down to #6 they have a shot at Felton (who could work just as well, if not better than paul in the atlanta system. He fits better with their style of play imo) or chris Taft (who could help fill out their frontline) as well as a first round pick in next years draft.


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## Geaux Tigers (Apr 26, 2004)

Im really high on Bogut. Some people dont like him cause hes not at athletic SF and that what the league is built on, but Bogut has GREAT fundamentals, Good athleticism and a mean streak which I like. I think Milwaukee goes with Bogut.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Jsimo12 said:


> Im really high on Bogut. Some people dont like him cause hes not at athletic SF and that what the league is built on, but Bogut has GREAT fundamentals, Good athleticism and a mean streak which I like. I think Milwaukee goes with Bogut.


Also high on Bogut. I think being drafted by Milwaukee, is tantamount to possibly putting Bill Walton in the Sacramento Kings (which is what the Bucks run) to utilize his great passing skills from the low post or high post. 

Bogut is a no-brainer IMO, because they've needed a talented 5 man, since they traded Kareem in the 70s.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

HKF said:


> Also high on Bogut. I think being drafted by Milwaukee, is tantamount to possibly putting Bill Walton in the Sacramento Kings (which is what the Bucks run) to utilize his great passing skills from the low post or high post.
> 
> Bogut is a no-brainer IMO, because they've needed a talented 5 man, since they traded Kareem in the 70s.


 Completely agree the Bucks would be idiotic not to go with Bogut. They have decent players at PF/SF where Williams would play but the Bucks for years have been beaten up down low. Plus I would love to see Ford and Bogut passing the ball together. A rehash of Divac/Jason Williams fun from a few years back


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## On Thre3 (Nov 26, 2003)

i was shocked when Milwaukee got the pick, i didnt even know Milwaukee had a team

sucks that charlotte feel to the 5th spot, this could set us back some


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Again. The Bucks would have to be borderline retarded to pass on Bogut.
Sometimes the obvious choice is the right choice. He fills a need. He's the best player in the draft. And people talk about Marvin Williams potential, Centers tend to develop slowly and get better with age, so how about Bogut's potential. He's by no means finished progressing as a player. Just look at the development he has had over the last year. This is a kid who has a burning desire to be great. I just love how he plays the game. He plays tough as nails. But he's got a ton of skill. And terrific hands. He's going to be a star. Nearly right out of the box. Especially if he is playing with Redd, Ford, and Mason. With Joe Smith and Dan Gadzuric to help out up front. Could a center ask for a better lineup than that to succeed? As a Bulls and Lebron fan, the Bucks scare me if they grab Bogut...so I hope they do take Williams.

I would like to see the Blazers make a move to get Bogut still though. Gerald Green is a good consolation prize. But I think if you get Bogut you can really look at restructuring that team, really quickly.


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## Ps!ence_Fiction (Aug 1, 2004)

PureStreetzH2O said:


> Toronto would never trade two first rounders to move up in the draft, we just need some talented and skilled young players here, so if anything we would send off a trade with players and a pick, but not both


I think they most teams would trade 2 draft picks to get the 2nd or 3rd pick in the draft, especially when players available would be 2 of Andrew Bogut, Marvin Williams and Chris Paul, who all have star potential. I actually wouldn't be surprised if the teams holding the 2nd and 3rd picks would reject the 7th and 16th picks for their pick, and asked for more.


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## SeaNet (Nov 18, 2004)

RP McMurphy said:


> Seriously, where did all these people come from that think teams aren't going to spend a top five pick on a guy, because they already have an average player at that position. The reason these teams have top five picks in the first place is because they've been starting guys like Dan Gadzuric and Dan Dickau.


I hear that.


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## SeaNet (Nov 18, 2004)

Jsimo12 said:


> Im really high on Bogut. Some people dont like him cause hes not at athletic SF and that what the league is built on, but Bogut has GREAT fundamentals, Good athleticism and a mean streak which I like. I think Milwaukee goes with Bogut.


I hear this as well. I think Bogut is gonna be a beast.


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## Blazer Freak (Jul 11, 2004)

So where do you guys see Marvin going? Do you think there is a big chance he could go 3, to Portland?


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## jalen5 (Nov 19, 2004)

*Re: pure scorer*



Pure Scorer said:


> How does Bogut not have star potential? Just because you don't see him as a potential superstar it doesn't mean he isn't. Bogut will come into the league as one of the top 5 centers. He has good footwork, a good touch inside, great passing, and good awareness. His improvement in the last couple of years is unreal. To say he's topped off, or that he won't get even better just because he isn't a raw player is silly. He doesn't have amazing athleticism, but it's not as bad as everyone thinks. He isn't a stiff. He will be one of the best centers in the league, and in milwaukee's position (with an outside shooter like michael redd) taking a guy like bogut who can establish a 2man game would be the perfect choice. Desmond Mason is already at the 3 and he had a pretty good year last year (17/4/3) not amazing, but not a weakness like they have in the middle. I think potential-wise, and based on need, either way, milwaukee should go with bogut.



You totally took it wrong. I like Bogut's game. I think he will be a top tier center for a long time. However, the reason I take Marvin Williams is b/c of what I DO see in Marvin Williams, not b/c of what I DON'T see in Bogut. I agree, he will be a top 5 center in the league for a long time. But just b/c he is doesn't mean he is a superstar. Center is the least deep position in the NBA. It doesn't take much to be a top 5 center.

No, he isn't done developing. But he will never be a Shaq, a Hakeem Olajuwon, Patrick Ewing, David Robinson, Tim Duncan, etc... He's been compared to Vlade Divac, and I think that's a good comparison. Vlade was a good player and Bogut will be, too. But I just don't take Bogut or Divac ahead of Marvin Williams. Marvin can play both the 3 and 4, he's quick and agile, can score inside and out, hits the glass hard on both ends of the floor, has a very quick first step for his size, and even the experts say he and Gerald Green have the most potential of anyone in the draft. 

I think the decision that Milwaukee has to make is similar to the one that Orlando had to make last year when they had to decide b/tw Okafor and Dwight Howard. Okafor and Bogut will both be good, top tier centers for a long time -- Bogut comes in w/ an advantage on the offensive end while Okafor came in with an advantage on the defensive end. I think Orlando made the right decision though. Howard is going to be a superstar IMO and I think Marvin Williams will be as well. That's just my opinion; I'm not trying to knock Bogut cuz he will be a great NBA player. BUT I would still take Marvin.


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## SeaNet (Nov 18, 2004)

I think there is a very good chance that Bogut could be as good as Patrick Ewing and even David Robinson (I don't think as much of the Admiral as many do (came up very small when it counted too many times in the playoffs)).


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## jalen5 (Nov 19, 2004)

Blazer Freak said:


> So where do you guys see Marvin going? Do you think there is a big chance he could go 3, to Portland?


If Marvin Williams doesn't go in the top 3, I will be incredibly shocked and elated cuz then he would fall in the Hornets lap. However, I think that is ALMOST out of the question so I'm not going to give myself false hope. Only scenario I can think of Marvin falling is Milwaukee taking Bogut, Atlanta taking Chris Paul, and Portland taking Gerald Green. I would be shocked if that happened tho. Hornets got a better shot at Paul IMO, which would be a great pickup for us as well. I dont think there's any doubt that Bogut will go to either the Bucks or the Hawks. If the Hawks take him, that means Marvin went to the Bucks, and it also means that the Hornets would probably end up with Paul, considering Portland already has Telfair. The more I think about it, I guess there is still a decent chance of Marvin falling to the Hornets if Bogut goes to the Bucks-- alot of it depends on how high the Blazers are on Gerald Green, we all know how much they love high school potential. I just know that if I was the one making the picks for the Bucks, Hawks, or Blazers, there's no way he would fall out of the top 3.


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## jalen5 (Nov 19, 2004)

RP McMurphy said:


> Dan Gadzuric is not a good enough player to affect your decision of what to do with a lottery pick, let alone the first overall pick. That would be like Cleveland drafting Trajan Langdon ahead of Corey Maggette, Ron Artest, and Andrei Kirilenko because they though they were set at small forward with Cedric Henderson.



That's not at all what it would be like b/c Trajan Langdon is NOWHERE EVEN CLOSE to Marvin Williams. But I do agree that Gadzuric is not a good enough player to affect your decision on who to pick-- Just like Joe Smith and Desmond Mason shouldn't affect your decision either. Because of that, the Bucks should just go with the guy they feel will be the best player in the NBA, which for every common basketball fan as well as expert and general manager obviously differs.


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## Cammo (May 24, 2005)

To say that you would take Williams over Bogut because of him having more potential IMO is ridiculous. Remember, Kandi and Kwame had 'potential' too. Alot of critics are saying that Bogut doesnt have enough athleticism, but to me that is also a complete load of crap. Didnt the Olympics teach anybody anything about fundamentals? Give me fundamentals over athleticism everyday of the week.


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## Debt Collector (Mar 13, 2003)

*Re: pure scorer*



jalen5 said:


> No, he isn't done developing. But he will never be a Shaq, a Hakeem Olajuwon, Patrick Ewing, David Robinson, Tim Duncan, etc... He's been compared to Vlade Divac, and I think that's a good comparison. Vlade was a good player and Bogut will be, too. But I just don't take Bogut or Divac ahead of Marvin Williams. Marvin can play both the 3 and 4, he's quick and agile, can score inside and out, hits the glass hard on both ends of the floor, has a very quick first step for his size, and even the experts say he and Gerald Green have the most potential of anyone in the draft.


im sorry but this is just ridiculous to me. the only thing andrew bogut and vlade divac have in common is they are great passers. bogut right now is a better shot blocker, better rebounder, and at least as good a scorer and likely better than divac ever was in his whole career.


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

HKF said:


> Bucks have to take Bogut. They need a legit big in the worst way and he'd resign with them too. This guy is going to be much better than Brad Miller (who people are comparing him to). Heck I think he's as good as Brad Miller right now.


He's already better than Brad Miller. Miller doesn't have his footwork, his strength, not nearly his wingspan, or even his bball IQ, which is probably the best we've seen in a big man since Divac. Bucks definitely take Bogut, unless they trade the pick in a blockbuster deal.


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

*Re: pure scorer*



Debt Collector said:


> im sorry but this is just ridiculous to me. the only thing andrew bogut and vlade divac have in common is they are great passers. bogut right now is a better shot blocker, better rebounder, and at least as good a scorer and likely better than divac ever was in his whole career.


Sorry, but Bogut won't be an elite center of that company, doesn't have the athleticism or quickness for that. 

And I don't think you're giving quite enough credit to Divac in his younger days. He was a beast of sorts. H


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

The truth is that none of these guys is a consensus
number one pick and there's no real reason to get excited about paying them number one draft pick money.Bogut is the best player available and after that you can pick based upon need.You can talk all you want about Marvin Williams
potential,but he and Paul played in the same league.There
is one year separating them.Paul was a superstar from the
day he arrived at Wake Forest.He was a superstar in
the premier college basketball conference.Williams came off
the bench for a very good team and he contributed.If you need what one offers you take it and if you don't take the other.None of these guys are going to be roundball messiahs and none of them will help a team compete in the NBA unless they are already close.


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## Debt Collector (Mar 13, 2003)

waaait a minute EHL. so bogut wont be an elite center of the quality of vlade divac, but he is already better than brad miller......?


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## jalen5 (Nov 19, 2004)

Debt Collector said:


> waaait a minute EHL. so bogut wont be an elite center of the quality of vlade divac, but he is already better than brad miller......?



Elite centers are Shaq, Hakeem Olajuwon, Patrick Ewing, David Robinson, Tim Duncan, players like that. I don't think Divac was ever of that quality. And I only mentioned Bogut in comparison to Divac b/c I saw the comparison on an NBA draft web site, which I think is a better comparison for Bogut than to Brad Miller b/c Divac in his prime was better than Brad Miller. Bogut WILL be a good center and player in the league. But, IMO, Marvin Williams has more potential and will be the better NBA player, partly b/c the NBA is dominated by versatile, athletic swing men. Basically, if I had to decide if I wanted to build my team around T.J. Ford, Michael Redd, and Andrew Bogut, or T.J. Ford, Michael Redd, and Marvin Williams, I would choose the one with Williams. No one is saying that Bogut won't be a good player, I just think Marvin Williams will be a better player eventually. There's no debating that Bogut won't go either #1 or #2 either.


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## DHarris34Phan (Oct 28, 2004)

jalen5 said:


> Elite centers are Shaq, Hakeem Olajuwon, Patrick Ewing, David Robinson, Tim Duncan, players like that. I don't think Divac was ever of that quality. And I only mentioned Bogut in comparison to Divac b/c I saw the comparison on an NBA draft web site, which I think is a better comparison for Bogut than to Brad Miller b/c Divac in his prime was better than Brad Miller. Bogut WILL be a good center and player in the league. But, IMO, Marvin Williams has more potential and will be the better NBA player, partly b/c the NBA is dominated by versatile, athletic swing men. Basically, if I had to decide if I wanted to build my team around T.J. Ford, Michael Redd, and Andrew Bogut, or T.J. Ford, Michael Redd, and Marvin Williams, I would choose the one with Williams. No one is saying that Bogut won't be a good player, I just think Marvin Williams will be a better player eventually. There's no debating that Bogut won't go either #1 or #2 either.


Tim Thomas also had awesome potential.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

The Divac comparison confuses everyone which is why they should stop making it. Because there's a few diffrent Vlades. The Vlade with the Kings wasn't the Vlade who came into the league. And the Vlade who came into the league isn't at all like Bogut.

And Divac was an underrated center for most of his career, especially in Sacremento, where, when healthy he was probably the second best center in the league for several years. But when people compare bogut to divac, I don't think they are saying that.

If I thought comparing Bogut to Divac was meant to be a compliment I would say good. But it's the "experts" way of saying Bogut won't be a star. And it has nothing really to do with comparison of their skills, except passing.

This is why I compare Bogut to Sabonis and Duncan. Because you get all of what people mean when they compare Bogut to Divac, in Sabonis, but you also get a lot more, that fits better--then you throw in Duncan, because most people probably don't respect Sabonis either.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

DHarris34Phan said:


> Tim Thomas also had awesome potential.


Yep. Haha. Bucks know all about Tim Thomas. 6-10 tweener with all the ability in the world. Potential potential potential.

Tim Thomas still has potential.


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## jalen5 (Nov 19, 2004)

DHarris34Phan said:


> Tim Thomas also had awesome potential.


You're right about that. And that could scare Milwaukee away from taking Marvin Williams. I just think Marvin will turn out the way the experts think he will, and that is as a superstar. I don't think he will be another Tim Thomas. Most draft picks these days come with some degree of a gamble.


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## jalen5 (Nov 19, 2004)

futuristxen said:


> The Divac comparison confuses everyone which is why they should stop making it. Because there's a few diffrent Vlades. The Vlade with the Kings wasn't the Vlade who came into the league. And the Vlade who came into the league isn't at all like Bogut.
> 
> And Divac was an underrated center for most of his career, especially in Sacremento, where, when healthy he was probably the second best center in the league for several years. But when people compare bogut to divac, I don't think they are saying that.
> 
> ...


I agree with you about most of what you said, but I don't think Bogut will ever be as good as Duncan. And while Divac and Sabonis were good centers, they weren't players that were superstars that u could build your team around. It takes a very special center for a franchise to build their team around that position. I see Bogut as being a really good center, but not quite that good.


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## Nimreitz (May 13, 2003)

jalen5 said:


> Basically, if I had to decide if I wanted to build my team around T.J. Ford, Michael Redd, and Andrew Bogut, or T.J. Ford, Michael Redd, and Marvin Williams, I would choose the one with Williams. No one is saying that Bogut won't be a good player, I just think Marvin Williams will be a better player eventually. There's no debating that Bogut won't go either #1 or #2 either.


That's what I've been saying to my fellow Bucks fans. Bogut's a fine player, but we have young players who don't in any way clash with Mavin and in fact I think Williams will be much better surrounded with talent like Redd, Mason, and especially TJ Ford.

The argument that Williams didn't start last year is just stupid. Come on, look at his stats first of all in limited minutes. Secondly JACKIE MANUEL was starting ahead of him! This is a completely irrational decision that Roy Williams made on par with, oh I don't know, Larry Brown benching Bron and Amare at the Olympics. Oh what do you know they are both from that dumb Carolina system that stubbornly refuses to play young players for no good reason.

Marvin Williams could be Shawn Marion or T-Mac, or hell he could even be one of a kind, but I think for sure he's a star in this league. And can everyone please stop saying Bogut is better than Brad Miller right now? The man has had some injuries recently, but when he's healthy the entire offense runs through him, he's aggressive, can knock down the midrange jumper, and is even psycho enough to pick a fight with Shaq. He's also quicker and more athletic than Bogut will ever be, which is pathetic to be honest because Miller's not exactly an athletic freak.

I believe Darko will be a stud, but I know a lot don't, so just compare the scouting reports of the two. Basically Darko has the edge in EVERYTHING except court vision (and I highly doubt Bogut will be a point center, first and foremost because he probably won't command a double team that's necessary for him to use his court vision). Did I mention Darko's younger?

Williams HAS to be the pick.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Nimreitz said:


> Marvin Williams could be Shawn Marion or T-Mac, or hell he could even be one of a kind, but I think for sure he's a star in this league. And can everyone please stop saying Bogut is better than Brad Miller right now? The man has had some injuries recently, but when he's healthy the entire offense runs through him, he's aggressive, can knock down the midrange jumper, and is even psycho enough to pick a fight with Shaq. He's also quicker and more athletic than Bogut will ever be, which is pathetic to be honest because Miller's not exactly an athletic freak.


Wait. Let me get this straight. You want people to stop comparing Bogut to Miller because of how great Miller is, but you have no problem with comparing Williams to T-mac?

If there's a guy who looks like T-mac in this draft it's Green, not Williams.

Oh and for the sake of the Bulls and the Cavs, I hope you guys do pick Williams.


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## jalen5 (Nov 19, 2004)

Nimreitz said:


> That's what I've been saying to my fellow Bucks fans. Bogut's a fine player, but we have young players who don't in any way clash with Mavin and in fact I think Williams will be much better surrounded with talent like Redd, Mason, and especially TJ Ford.
> 
> The argument that Williams didn't start last year is just stupid. Come on, look at his stats first of all in limited minutes. Secondly JACKIE MANUEL was starting ahead of him! This is a completely irrational decision that Roy Williams made on par with, oh I don't know, Larry Brown benching Bron and Amare at the Olympics. Oh what do you know they are both from that dumb Carolina system that stubbornly refuses to play young players for no good reason.
> 
> ...


Well I'm glad someone else thinks Marvin is the pick and the better player to build around. However, I wouldn't compare him to T-Mac or Shawn Marion. I think Marvin will be one of a kind. Gerald Green is the one being compared to T-Mac, and, if he fulfills his potential, could be a similar type player. I just think Marvin fits in better with the Bucks and their other players and also will be the best player out of the draft, although Green has amazing potential. 

Also, I believe Roy Williams made the right decision in bringing in Marvin off the bench. I don't think it was b/c Marvin was a freshman but because it was the best thing to do for that particular UNC squad. Most other teams and no doubt he would have started. However, for this team (with McCants, Felton, May, Jawad Williams, and a defensive stopper in Jackie Manuel as your starting 5), it was the right move. He provided them MUCH needed firepower off the bench and was an INCREDIBLE 6th man who often played starter minutes.


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## maxrider (May 9, 2005)

*Re: pure scorer*

This is what I think will happen.
1. Milwaukee -- Marvin Williams
2. Atlanta -- Andrew Bogut
3. Utah -- Chris Paul (trade with Portland)


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

The reason that Jackie Manuel started ahead of Marvin Williams was that Jackie Manuel did more to help Carolina win games than Williams did.I assume that he also played more minutes.Let's hear the Carolina fans or someone who actually understands the game say that bad things about Jackie Manuel.He may not have had more talent than Williams,but he was more important to Carolina than he was and so was Jawad Williams.It takes more than a bunch of Sportscenter highlight BS to win the
game.


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## Nimreitz (May 13, 2003)

I won't question Jawad, because every Carolina game I saw he was one of the best 3 players on the court. Often he'd impress me more than anyone else on the floor and I think he will be the best second rounder out of this draft; in fact he really shouldn't be a second rounder. But Jackie Manuel is completely inept on the offensive end, and NOT a defensive stopper. I think that's more Bilas/Vitale hype for why he played; in the tournament Manuel couldn't guard anyone. The guy he was guarding just went off almost every game; the one instance I remember the best was Alando Tucker just carrying Wisconsin on his back in the second half of the Elite 8 game. Either way it doesn't matter, Marvin should have started for that North Carolina team based purely on talent regardless of if he actually did or not.

Yeah, for the T-Mac comparison I was just throwing a name out there, but I do like the Matrix comparison. Just a unique player who can do anything you ask of him and do it really well. I think with Marv's jumpshot, which can improve still too, and his rebounding the Marion comparison fits.


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## Kmurph (May 7, 2003)

> The truth is that none of these guys is a consensus
> number one pick and there's no real reason to get excited about paying them number one draft pick money.Bogut is the best player available and after that you can pick based upon need.You can talk all you want about Marvin Williams
> potential,but he and Paul played in the same league.There
> is one year separating them.Paul was a superstar from the
> ...


Nice Post and I agree with the comments on Chris Paul...


WHERE O' WHERE is the love for Chris Paul? I don't get it...They guy has been labeled as one of the best PG to come into the NBA since Kidd, and at a position that is one of the most desirable to have a potential "star" player at, and yet the thought of ATL drafting him at #2 is ridiculous?

What a bunch of garbage.....

I don't think it is a given that the gap in talent\NBA impact b\t Marvin Williams and Chris Paul is nearly as big as some of you think it is. I have heard\read VERY FEW negative comments about Chris Paul and to the contrary most GM's speak VERY highly of him. 

I think assuming that ATL would pass on him at #2 is a little presumptiuous at this point, and if ATL rates Paul and Williams anywhere NEAR each other, then the chances of them going for their bigger need (PG) seems VERY likely to me....and in case any of you forgot the FA PG classs this year is pretty pathetic......

Love to see ATL roll the ball out for Tyronn Lue and their 7 wing players...lol

Who was the league MVP again?



> This is what I think will happen.
> 1. Milwaukee -- Marvin Williams
> 2. Atlanta -- Andrew Bogut
> 3. Utah -- Chris Paul (trade with Portland)


Care to elaborate on that a little bit? I am particularly interested in why POR would trade down to the 6th spot, giving up a chance on Gerald Green & more than likely an "impact" player...for what?

What is UTA going to offer POR? Their 27th pick? Whooptefreakindo....

I'm not so sure that there is any significant difference b\t UTA 27th and POR 35th pick, other than POR doesn't have to lock themselves into guaranteing a preset amount of cash for 3yrs to whomever they pick. Last time I checked that sort of freedom was a positive and not a negative.


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## jalen5 (Nov 19, 2004)

Diable said:


> The reason that Jackie Manuel started ahead of Marvin Williams was that Jackie Manuel did more to help Carolina win games than Williams did.I assume that he also played more minutes.Let's hear the Carolina fans or someone who actually understands the game say that bad things about Jackie Manuel.He may not have had more talent than Williams,but he was more important to Carolina than he was and so was Jawad Williams.It takes more than a bunch of Sportscenter highlight BS to win the
> game.


I'm a big Carolina fan and I won't say anything bad about Manuel or Jawad or Marvin. I think Roy Williams made the right decision in bringing in Marvin as the 6th man. That's what this particular team needed.


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## jalen5 (Nov 19, 2004)

Kmurph said:


> Nice Post and I agree with the comments on Chris Paul...
> 
> 
> WHERE O' WHERE is the love for Chris Paul? I don't get it...They guy has been labeled as one of the best PG to come into the NBA since Kidd, and at a position that is one of the most desirable to have a potential "star" player at, and yet the thought of ATL drafting him at #2 is ridiculous?
> ...


I agree man. I love Chris Paul as well. Personally, I would take both Paul and Marvin Williams over Bogut.


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## Nimreitz (May 13, 2003)

The only problem with Paul is his size and defense. He's definitely being overshadowed though as the Marv - Bogut War wages out of control. I think the presence of Deron Williams hurts his value too, I mean what's the difference between Paul and Williams?


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## SeaNet (Nov 18, 2004)

jalen5 said:


> *But, IMO, Marvin Williams has more potential and will be the better NBA player, partly b/c the NBA is dominated by versatile, athletic swing men.*


That swingman domination you speak of, is that why Shaq's teams have won 3 titles, and Tim Duncan's 2 and then Detroit w/ its cadre of capable big men won the last one? Swingmen dominate the airwaves and the hype machines. Big men dominate the games.


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## DHarris34Phan (Oct 28, 2004)

SeaNet said:


> That swingman domination you speak of, is that why Shaq's teams have won 3 titles, and Tim Duncan's 2 and then Detroit w/ its cadre of capable big men won the last one? Swingmen dominate the airwaves and the hype machines. Big men dominate the games.


*Thank you. It's not like the Bucks had a bad swingman last year either in Desmond Mason. The fact of the matter is, we were terrible because we had no big man.*


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## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

Nimreitz said:


> The only problem with Paul is his size and defense. He's definitely being overshadowed though as the Marv - Bogut War wages out of control. I think the presence of Deron Williams hurts his value too, I mean what's the difference between Paul and Williams?


I agree. I think alot of people are dismissing Paul on this board. Most people think he is the 4th best PG in the draft, which I feel is absurd. I would not take him over Bogut or Williams, but I think people get caught up in The Vitale Hype and forget how good he really is.


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## Cammo (May 24, 2005)

On another note, instead of comparing previous success and busts based on potential. How about we look at what Bogut truely is (as i look at the basketball boards poster and see three internationals (4 if you include Duncan but i think its fair enough to classify him as an American)). He is an international player, i think you will find that there have been many more successful international players in the league than there have been busts.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Cammo said:


> On another note, instead of comparing previous success and busts based on potential. How about we look at what Bogut truely is (as i look at the basketball boards poster and see three internationals (4 if you include Duncan but i think its fair enough to classify him as an American)). He is an international player, i think you will find that there have been many more successful international players in the league than there have been busts.


If you play college ball in the states, I don't think you can be considered an international player....


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## Cammo (May 24, 2005)

...why not? He was born in Australia, he has played much more ball down here than he has in the US.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Cammo said:


> ...why not? He was born in Australia, he has played much more ball down here than he has in the US.


his elite level of play is against American competition...


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## Cammo (May 24, 2005)

...his elite level of play has actually been against the world competition.


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## jalen5 (Nov 19, 2004)

SeaNet said:


> That swingman domination you speak of, is that why Shaq's teams have won 3 titles, and Tim Duncan's 2 and then Detroit w/ its cadre of capable big men won the last one? Swingmen dominate the airwaves and the hype machines. Big men dominate the games.



Yea, you're right. Teams can/will win a title when they have a big man the quality and caliber of Shaq or Ducan. BUT Bogut is not of that caliber and never will be of that caliber. And that Pistons argument should just be thrown out. They are a one of a kind team, put together PERFECTLY by Joe Dumars. There hasn't been a TEAM like them in a long time and wont be for awhile.


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## DHarris34Phan (Oct 28, 2004)

jalen5 said:


> Yea, you're right. Teams can/will win a title when they have a big man the quality and caliber of Shaq or Ducan. BUT Bogut is not of that caliber and never will be of that caliber. And that Pistons argument should just be thrown out. They are a one of a kind team, put together PERFECTLY by Joe Dumars. There hasn't been a TEAM like them in a long time and wont be for awhile.


So...what players other than Bogut can a team like the Bucks, get and realisticly be able to build there team around him? NONE! Bogut is a 20 year old stud. Also, based on what Bogut has proved, and the potential he STILL HAS, it is unreasonable to say he CANT become a dominant center.


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## SeaNet (Nov 18, 2004)

jalen5 said:


> Yea, you're right. Teams can/will win a title when they have a big man the quality and caliber of Shaq or Ducan. BUT Bogut is not of that caliber and never will be of that caliber. And that Pistons argument should just be thrown out. They are a one of a kind team, put together PERFECTLY by Joe Dumars. There hasn't been a TEAM like them in a long time and wont be for awhile.


Bogut is a guy who can potentially give you a match for Shaq and Duncan. This is not to say that he will necessarily be an equal to them or anything, but he is a guy who looks like he might be able to match up against the best big men, and if not counter them, at least take that matchup and make it one that isn't one of complete domination for Shaq/Duncan. How often does a player like that come along? People thought Eddie Curry, and Tyson Chandler might develop into those kinds of guys so they went at the top of the draft, and they hadn't done ANYTHING compared to Bogut. Yao Ming went #1, and other than his Chinese League play people only saw him in a two hour workout. When you get a shot at a big guy who might be a top Center, you take it, and you don't look back.


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