# Scottie Pippen or Clyde Drexler?



## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

They were both great second options that never won anything as the main man, my question is, which one was better? And, if you were starting a franchise from scratch, who would you pick?


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## Najee (Apr 5, 2007)

Clyde Drexler is more of the franchise player of the two, and the better player overall. Portland had a three-year stretch where it went to the NBA Finals in 1990 and 1992 and the 1991 West finals with Drexler was the top player. The reality is Drexler was not on that elite franchise player level; he was the type that would need a stronger No. 2 man than what he had to lead a team to the title.


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## Chan Ho Nam (Jan 9, 2007)

Glide


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

Clyde Drexler, and as good as Pippen was, he was never on Drexlers tier IMO.


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## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

Drexler


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## OneBadLT123 (Oct 4, 2005)

Clyde


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

Drex easy


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## juice4080 (Jul 4, 2006)

it's pretty much a wash as far as im concerned..Drexler was the more gifted scorer and probably the more dependable of the 2 offensively and this is what i value most but on the other hand u just can't ignore the fact that while Pippen was not a dominant scorer he was one of the most versatile offensive player ever he basically perfected the point forward position...Defensively if u take away all the great centers, who had more impact than Pippen? Drexler was no slouch either but nowhere near Pippen


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## hroz (Mar 4, 2006)

I would go Drexler as well BUT I think people forget how well the Bulls went without Jordan in the 93-94 season. They went 55-27. And lost to the NBA finalists(Knicks) 3 to 4. In the Conf Semis.

But its gotta be Drexler. The way he led the Blazers in the late 80s early 90s, gives him that edge plus: he got the closest to a NBA MVP coming in second to Jordan one year. Pippen never got that close.


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

I prefer Pippen... I think people consider Drexler more of a franchise player because he got the opportunity to play that role. 

Pippen's '93/'94 season, the only one where he really got to be a franchise player: 22 ppg 8.7 rebounds 5.6 assists... 2.9 steals (nobody has had more per game since, outside of Gary Payton's top season)... very respectable. I don't think you'll find a better all-round defender at the 3 than Scottie Pippen either. It really is an impossible question to answer given their career paths... I expect that most people will say Drexler and that's probably the right answer here... I'm just a little biased.


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

I'll have to vote for Drexler because he had the Franchise Player mentality.

But in fact, both players are comparable: Glyde was the better offensive player; Pippen, the better defensive player. 

But in the end, Drexler was the Main Man for a team that got to 2 Finals appearences. Pippen was always a sidekick.


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## JerryWest (Jun 24, 2002)

Pippen. If he had another secondary scorer with him, he won have won a title as the franchise player IMO. Clyde could dunk better and that's about it.

Pippen may have been the best perimeter player ever. He was a marvelous ball handler and passer, he was also an efficient scorer although on a little less volume than Clyde. Ignoring personalities.

To say Pippen never won as the man is a bad argument IMO. When Jordan was out he almost went to the finals pending a horrible call. That's like complaining about how Kobe never won a title immediately after Shaq left. They never replaced Jordan with any free agent.

If you put Mitch Richmond on that team with Pippen, they could have won the title IMO. You can't just pull away your top scorer, not replace him and say that Pippen couldn't win without Jordan.

If Pippen was in his prime with the Trailblazers in the early 2000's the Blazers would have beaten the Lakers. Pippen is underrated because of flawed sidekick perception people have him. All the credit is stolen by Jordan fans and Nike's massive PR campaigns. Without Pippen, Jordan has zero rings. You replace Pippen with any other SF that played in the 90's and Jordan gets only one or two rings.


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## BlakeJesus (Feb 1, 2006)

Pippen had an extremely high basketball IQ, he's a fantastic player I'll take him.


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## Gullit (Aug 11, 2009)

KennethTo said:


> Pippen. If he had another secondary scorer with him, he won have won a title as the franchise player IMO. Clyde could dunk better and that's about it.
> 
> Pippen may have been the best perimeter player ever. He was a marvelous ball handler and passer, he was also an efficient scorer although on a little less volume than Clyde. Ignoring personalities.
> 
> ...


Right, Drexler was just a good dunker huh..? :wtf:

Drexler was the main guy suffering from double teams, while Pippen was often open because he played with an even better player than Drexler. 

Pippen underrated is a joke. If one of these two is underrated it is Drexler, because he stood much more in the shadow of Jordan than Pippen. 
Scottie was very lucky to get in Chicago, just like all the other players like Kukoc and Rodman. All great in their own right but so are many, and one reason we know their qualities so well and appreciate them is because they were in spotlight always, even if they weren't the main guy. 

Drexler needing a good 2nd option guy? Hell yeah who doesn't?!

I love both but Drexler is the better player imo, definitely not less than Pippen, however great they both are, among the top 50 all time.


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## JerryWest (Jun 24, 2002)

Gullit said:


> Right, Drexler was just a good dunker huh..? :wtf:
> 
> Drexler was the main guy suffering from double teams, while Pippen was often open because he played with an even better player than Drexler.
> 
> ...


'92-'93 38.6 Minpergame 18.6 points 6.3 assists 7.7 rebounds 47.3 FG% 2.1 steals .8 blocks (with Jordan)
'93-'94 38.3 Minpergame 22 points 5.6 assists 8.7 rebounds 49.1 FG% 2.9 steals 1.1 blocks(w/o Jordan)
'94-'95 38.2 Minpergame 21.4 points 5.2 assists 8.1 rebounds 48 FG% 2.9 steals .7 blocks(w/o Jordan)

Where in these numbers does it show Pippen benefiting anywhere from open looks from Jordan. It's looks to me like Pippen's FG% got marginal better as he got a few more touches, his FG% went up. Those assists numbers are also understated because Pippen was working from within the triangle offense and didn't go iso'ing a lot on a whim.

The only thing Jordan has ever done for Pippen is steal credit from Pippen.

Those steal and block figures are also more impressive when you consider Pippen was probably the best on the ball perimeter defender as well.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

KennethTo said:


> '92-'93 38.6 Minpergame 18.6 points 6.3 assists 7.7 rebounds 47.3 FG% 2.1 steals .8 blocks (with Jordan)
> '93-'94 38.3 Minpergame 22 points 5.6 assists 8.7 rebounds 49.1 FG% 2.9 steals 1.1 blocks(w/o Jordan)
> '94-'95 38.2 Minpergame 21.4 points 5.2 assists 8.1 rebounds 48 FG% 2.9 steals .7 blocks(w/o Jordan)
> 
> ...


Jordan was winning MVP's and DPOTYA's when Pippen was still suffering from migraine headaches. Pippen was a softy. You horribly overrate pippen. Some how I can see Jordan winning many championships with out Pippen, but I highly doubt PIppen would of won many championships with out Jordan.


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## BlakeJesus (Feb 1, 2006)

In 93-94 when Jordan retired Pippen lead the Bulls in scoring, assists, and lead the league in steals. 

He lead that team to the ECF and lost in 7 games (shouldn't have lost, the refs blew a call that let the Knicks shoot and make the game winning FT's).

Then the next season without MJ (for most of the season at least, MJ played like what, 17 games?) Pippen finished the 1994-95 season leading the Bulls in every major statistical category: assists, rebounds, points, steals, and blocks; Pippen is one of only four players in NBA history to accomplish this feat.

Pippen's first year on the Trailblazers he took them to the ECF, losing in 7 games to the Lakers, who we all know eventually became the champions.

Pippen is a 10 time All NBA D selection, 8 of which were the first team.


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## OneBadLT123 (Oct 4, 2005)

GregOden said:


> He lead that team to the ECF and lost in 7 games (shouldn't have lost, the refs blew a call that let the Knicks shoot and make the game winning FT's).


In 93-94 and 94-95 the Bulls lost in the 2nd round. Not game 7 of the ECF. 
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CHI/



> Pippen's first year on the Trailblazers he took them to the ECF, losing in 7 games to the Lakers, who we all know eventually became the champions.


Bad argument as when Drexler was the main man, he took the Blazers to the NBA FInals against the Pistons and Bulls. Who we all know eventually became the champions.

On top of that, he wasnt even the main man in Portland (again), he was a side kick...(again). That team was Rasheed's.



KennethTo said:


> Pippen. To say Pippen never won as the man is a bad argument IMO. When Jordan was out he almost went to the finals pending a horrible call. That's like complaining about how Kobe never won a title immediately after Shaq left. They never replaced Jordan with any free agent.
> 
> If you put Mitch Richmond on that team with Pippen, they could have won the title IMO. You can't just pull away your top scorer, not replace him and say that Pippen couldn't win without Jordan.


How is one "bad call" in the 2nd round almost getting to the NBA finals? They still had to beat Indiana that year. 
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CHI/

Not calling anyone out, but if youre going to make such an argument, at least get it right


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

OneBadLT pretty much covered everything I was gonna say, but one thing to add is that Portland also reached the WCF's the year prior to Pippen's arrival.


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## Prolific Scorer (Dec 16, 2005)

[email protected] 2000 Portland team being Sheed's..

There really wasn't a true leader on that team. If anything, you could say that was Scottie's team. He wasn't leading the team #'s wise, but out of anybody on that squad he brung the most leadership. That team was a bunch of misfits, but at the same time was incredibly deep with talent.

Scottie Pippen
Bonzi Wells
Detlef Schrempf
Brian Grant
Arvydas Sabonis
Stacey Augmon
Steve Smith
Rasheed Wallace
Damon Staudamire
Greg Anthony


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## Wade County (Jun 22, 2003)

I take Scotty Pip - true point forward who could do it all. No disrespect to Clyde.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

OneBadLT123 said:


> In 93-94 and 94-95 the Bulls lost in the 2nd round. Not game 7 of the ECF.
> http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CHI/
> 
> 
> ...


Five Star post!


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

Blue Magic said:


> OneBadLT pretty much covered everything I was gonna say, but one thing to add is that Portland also reached the WCF's the year prior to Pippen's arrival.


Yup, the Blazers were already a team to be reckoned with before Pippen arrived in Portland. The reason the Blazers acquired Pippen was in hopes he would be enough to get the Blazers over the top to help them win a championship. However the Portland Trailblazers had one of the biggest meltdowns in the 4th quarter in a game 7 in the WCF's. So much for all that leadership Pippen was suppose to be embody.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

Prolific Scorer said:


> [email protected] 2000 Portland team being Sheed's..
> 
> There really wasn't a true leader on that team. If anything, you could say that was Scottie's team. He wasn't leading the team #'s wise, but out of anybody on that squad he brung the most leadership. That team was a bunch of misfits, but at the same time was incredibly deep with talent.
> 
> ...


Can't agree here. Pippen was part of one of the biggest melt downs in playoff history when he was on the Blazers. And he was suppose to be on the Blazers to help them get over the top, and give the Blazers that leadership ability when things got tough in the playoffs. No such luck.

Also add the melt down's Pippen had in Chicago. Migrane headaches against the Detroit Pistons (Pippen benched himself in the playoffs), Pippen sitting out end of the game play, because Phil Jackson designed Toni Kukoc to take the shot. Not to mention the numbers times Jordan had to bail Pippen out of a confrontation when the game got heated. Leadership Pippen ? I don't know about those apples.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

23AJ said:


> Yup, the Blazers were already a team to be reckoned with before Pippen arrived in Portland. The reason the Blazers acquired Pippen was in hopes he would be enough to get the Blazers over the top to help them win a championship. However the Portland Trailblazers had one of the biggest meltdowns in the 4th quarter in a game 7 in the WCF's. So much for all that leadership Pippen was suppose to be embody.


Those Blazers didn't lose to any random playoff team, that 2000 Laker team was pretty freaking good. Don't act like Pippen wasn't the leader on those teams, we both know he was.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

VanillaPrice said:


> Those Blazers didn't lose to any random playoff team, that 2000 Laker team was pretty freaking good. Don't act like Pippen wasn't the leader on those teams, we both know he was.


Does any team in a game 7 in the WCF's lose to just any random playoff team ? LMFAO. Dumb statement. Secondly, did you or did you not read my statement ??? If you did buddy, you would have read that Pippen was brought into portland for his experience and leadership qualities. However that backfired, as Pippen was part of an already an excellent Blazer team, who had one of the biggest playoff melt down's in NBA history. No matter how you cut it , those are the apples you are dealt. I guess those Blazers were pretty good too considering they had the LA Lakers on beat down until 9 minutes left in the 4th quarter, and completely collapsed. Because uuuh,,, nobody could make a damn shot or stop LA from scoring, hmmm Leadership, experience, and execution ?? Naw Pip was no where to be found.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

23AJ said:


> Does any team in a game 7 in the WCF's lose to just any random playoff team ? LMFAO. Dumb statement. Secondly, did you or did you not read my statement ??? If you did buddy, you would have read that Pippen was brought into portland for his experience and leadership qualities. However that backfired, as Pippen was part of an already an excellent Blazer team, who had one of the biggest playoff melt down's in NBA history. No matter how you cut it , those are the apples you are dealt. I guess those Blazers were pretty good too considering they had the LA Lakers on beat down until 9 minutes left in the 4th quarter, and completely collapsed. Because uuuh,,, nobody could make a damn shot or stop LA from scoring, hmmm Leadership, experience, and execution ?? Naw Pip was no where to be found.


So one trainwreck quarter is the defining moment for a six time NBA champion, who is, coincidentally reguarded as a top 30 or so player or all time.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

VanillaPrice said:


> So one trainwreck quarter is the defining moment for a six time NBA champion, who is, coincidentally reguarded as a top 30 or so player or all time.


No, but it's part of his legacy. Not to mention the number of Chicago incidents I listed. Plus were also comparing Pippen to Drexler, who never had those problems on the basketball court. Who is also a top 50 player, Drexler was pretty much as steady as they get. A cool demeanor with a hell of a skill set to boot.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

23AJ said:


> No, but it's part of his legacy. Not to mention the number of Chicago incidents I listed. Plus were also comparing Pippen to Drexler, who never had those problems on the basketball court. Who is also a top 50 player, Drexler was pretty much as steady as they get. A cool demeanor with a hell of a skill set to boot.


Then why didn't Clyde ever have much sucsess as a first option? You can't hold not winning a 'ship as a first option when Clyde couldn't either.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

Clyde took Portland to TWO NBA FINALS as a 1st option. Pippen took the Bulls to ECSF's and people are falling over & bowing down to how he worked miracles.... 'He had them knocking on the door to the finals w/o MJ!, because he made it to the ECSFs'....? But TWO FINALS APPEARANCES isnt much success?? That's way more success than Pippen had as #1. 

You guys are the ones who want to bring up team accomplishments when evaluating individuals. That's not our argument, your argument has backfired because not only does Clyde have better per year #'s, he has also done more as a #1... Only thing he didn't do was ride the coattails to the Greatest player of all-time to 6 rings, and he wasn't in that same spotlight that Pippen recieved playing next to said player. This thread is a good example of why people feel Pippen is up on somewhat of a pedestal.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

VanillaPrice said:


> Then why didn't Clyde ever have much sucsess as a first option? You can't hold not winning a 'ship as a first option when Clyde couldn't either.


Clyde had as much success as Pippen as the 2nd option. And Clyde had more success than Pippen as the first option. You realize Clyde go the Blazers to the Finals as the number one option. Pippen never did that. Both Pippen and Drexler won championships as the second options. Yes Pippen won more as a second option, but Pip also played with a top 3 player of all time.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

Blue Magic said:


> Clyde took Portland to TWO NBA FINALS as a 1st option. Pippen took the Bulls to ECSF's and people are falling over & bowing down to how he worked miracles.... 'He had them knocking on the door to the finals w/o MJ!, because he made it to the ECSFs'....? But TWO FINALS APPEARANCES isnt much success?? That's way more success than Pippen had as #1.
> 
> You guys are the ones who want to bring up team accomplishments when evaluating individuals. That's not our argument, your argument has backfired because not only does Clyde have better per year #'s, he has also done more as a #1... Only thing he didn't do was ride the coattails to the Greatest player of all-time to 6 rings, and he wasn't in that same spotlight that Pippen recieved playing next to said player. This thread is a good example of why people feel Pippen is up on somewhat of a pedestal.


Thank you.


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## Prolific Scorer (Dec 16, 2005)

23AJ said:


> Can't agree here. Pippen was part of one of the biggest melt downs in playoff history when he was on the Blazers. And he was suppose to be on the Blazers to help them get over the top, and give the Blazers that leadership ability when things got tough in the playoffs. No such luck.
> 
> Also add the melt down's Pippen had in Chicago. Migrane headaches against the Detroit Pistons (Pippen benched himself in the playoffs), Pippen sitting out end of the game play, because Phil Jackson designed Toni Kukoc to take the shot. Not to mention the numbers times Jordan had to bail Pippen out of a confrontation when the game got heated. Leadership Pippen ? I don't know about those apples.


I'm not saying Pippen was a great leader..

I'm saying that those Portland teams were dysfunctional and out of everyone on the team, Pippen brought the most leadership. It certainly wasn't Rasheed Wallace taking the team and leading.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

in historical texts i dont see how this is close .

clyde drexler was the better scorer... i dont disagree...but its not by much...pippen shot better from the field and from 3 while shooting a higher % of his shots from 3. when adding other offensive factors like offensive rebounding and passing and ballhandling ability...i think pippen is better on that end of the ball , drexler did avg. more points though.

and then there is this 

drexler was a good defender and pippen was one of the better defenders of all time...depending on who you ask pippen ranks with havlicek and rodman as the best small forward defender of all time ...some people think defense is important...in addition pippen was a better rebounder.


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## OneBadLT123 (Oct 4, 2005)

VanillaPrice said:


> So one trainwreck quarter is the defining moment for a six time NBA champion, who is, coincidentally reguarded as a top 30 or so player or all time.


With his tenure in Portland, yes. It is


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

23AJ said:


> Can't agree here. Pippen was part of one of the biggest melt downs in playoff history when he was on the Blazers. And he was suppose to be on the Blazers to help them get over the top, and give the Blazers that leadership ability when things got tough in the playoffs. No such luck.
> 
> Also add the melt down's Pippen had in Chicago. Migrane headaches against the Detroit Pistons (Pippen benched himself in the playoffs), Pippen sitting out end of the game play, because Phil Jackson designed Toni Kukoc to take the shot. Not to mention the numbers times Jordan had to bail Pippen out of a confrontation when the game got heated. Leadership Pippen ? I don't know about those apples.


what game(s) did pippen bench himself in?

he actually played 42 minutes in the "Migraine Game"(game 7 ecf 1990)

what confrontations did MJ bail pippen out of?

its funny people want to look at these circular things to quantify greatness beyond what they did on the court...

the simple truth is people at the time of their career saw pippen as better ...he was a 3 time all nba selection ...drexler made it once so 1st option, 2nd option is nonsense stuff.

how would MJ fare with the scrutiny pippen is going under .... after Mj never got past the 1st round without pippen on the roster as a 1st option

if you go skill by skill pippen comes out on top .

if you go by individual achievements pippen comes out on top .

and if you go by team sucess its no contest.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

Da Grinch said:


> what game(s) did pippen bench himself in?
> 
> he actually played 42 minutes in the "Migraine Game"(game 7 ecf 1990)
> 
> ...


Uhh

Pippen was pulled out of that game. And also went 1 for 10 I believe. His minutes were worthless. Do to the old "migraine"






Check out the interview with Jordan at the end he was hot under the collar boy. 

http://sports.jrank.org/pages/3758/Pippen-Scottie.html

http://proxy.espn.go.com/espn/eticket/print?id=2244572&type=story



> No discussion of Pippen's career would be complete without a reference to what has become known as the "1.8 Seconds," when Pippen refused to reenter the final moments of a 1994 playoff game against the New York Knicks after coach Phil Jackson drew up a play for Toni Kukoc to take the final shot.


Jordan usually had to finish what pippen started. From heated physical confrontations with the bad boy pistons, Hardcore Riley Knicks, and other 90s NBA league enforcers. If you are not aware of this, I take it you didn't really watch a lot of 90s basketball. Hell Jordan even commented about this very thing, and the nature of Pip's softness at his jersey retirement ceremony. Check it out at the end of the video.






Pippen is a lot of great things, but he never had the weight of an entire organization as the number one player on his shoulders. Drexler did. Drexler easily stands firm with Pippen, and I give Drexler the edge over all.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

^lol, Barkley :laugh:


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

23AJ said:


> Uhh
> 
> Pippen was pulled out of that game. And also went 1 for 10 I believe. His minutes were worthless. Do to the old "migraine"
> 
> ...




pippen played 42 minutes in that migraine game and they lost by 19 ...pulled? for who brad sellers ?

also drexler was a supporting player til he was almost 27 to kiki vandeweghe ...those teams never went anywhere .

when he has all stars at 3 of the other 4 spots in the lineup he can take his team to the finals(and drazen petrovic off the bench) ...i think people forget how good his teams really were.

pippen had the weight of the franchise on him when jordan left in 93

pippen won 55 games with pete myers as his starting 2 guard ...you'll find no one that shabby starting on a drexler led team that won nearly as much....pippen's starting center played 780 minutes that season , most of the time he had bill wennington, will purdue and stacy king defending the middle for him.

i actually think you are the one who didn't watch alot of 90's ball.

after the migraine game the next time the bulls met the pistons in the playoffs Scottie dominated rodman....and they swept the pistons its not an opinion its a fact and you can check the boxscores

and mj was joking...he had just gone through a whole speech about how pippen was the 1st guy who had his back in chicago.

how man clutch moments are etched in clyde's history that led to titles?

i remember scottie blocking 2 shots from charles smith point blank from the basket clinching a series against those knicks whom you felt he needed help against ...or the bulls switching scottie onto magic in game 2 and the bulls winning 4 straight games to their 1st title?

as much posting that has been done about pippen's letdowns i dont think people remember the blazers were known as a dumb team when drexler was the head of them who melted down quite abit themselves

the lakers came back on them to get to the finals against the bulls in 91 when the blazers were heavy favorites.

his biggest finals moment was when MJ torched him for 35 1st half points...

their resumes are really far different


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

Da Grinch said:


> pippen played 42 minutes in that migraine game and they lost by 19 ...pulled? for who brad sellers ?
> 
> also drexler was a supporting player til he was almost 27 to kiki vandeweghe ...those teams never went anywhere .
> 
> ...


I grew up watching 80s/90s basketball.

Pippen played 42 minutes and was complete garbage, he scored one bucket, and the Bulls lost. Let's not start acting like he was Jordan with the flu in Utah. Check.

Pippen sat out of a very important playoff game because the last shot was designed for another player. Great leader ? yeah sure. Check.

Pippen blocked Charles Smith's shot twice, after Horace Grant blocked Smith first, after Jordan stripped Smith second, and with very few seconds on the clock Smith tried to get an ill fated attempt up at the basket that pippen blocked from behind twice. 

And yes those are the same Knick teams that guy's like Xavier Mcdaniel and Oakley use to punk Pippen left and right. And Jordan wasn't being tongue n cheek about having to finish what pippen started, because he certainly did many many times. And of course the general speech was to praise Pippen, We all get how good Pippen was, even Jordan. However that doesn't mean he was better than Drexler. Because he wasn't.

Clyde had his own fair share of clutch and great moments in the NBA playoffs. Remeber Drex and the Blazers beat a lot of good teams out West filled with All Stars to get to the Finals. Also let's not forget Drexler had success not in one franchise, but two, as he won a championship with the Rockets as a key contributing member. 

The Lakers also beat the Bulls in Chicago. Nobody thought that would happen either. Also nobody thought the Rockets would come back to beat the Suns down 0-3, however that's exactly what happened.

Drexlers biggest playoff moment wasn't when MJ had one of the greatest 1st half's of all time, then pretty much disappeared in the second half. to say that it show's me you have an axe to grind. In reality Drxler had many terrific games in the Finals against the Pistons and Bulls. Also Drexler wasn't the only guy guarding Jordan in that series. Far from it actually. 

Their resumes are what they are. However when I say Drexler was the better individual basketball player, you can throw their team accomplishments out of the debate. If Pippen had played his entire career on a bad team that never won in the playoffs, would he be any less of a basketball player ? I highly doubt it. However what is obvious, is how much better Drexler was in college, and how much better Drexler was naturally than Pippen as soon as he entered the NBA. 

Drexler is underrated, and Pippen is overrated.


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## ScottVdub (Jul 9, 2002)

23AJ said:


> The Lakers also beat the Bulls in Chicago. Nobody thought that would happen either. Also nobody thought the Rockets would come back to beat the Suns down 0-3, however that's exactly what happened.




they were down 3-1. But yeah I agree, I thought the Suns were going to win it all that year.


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## NBR (Nov 15, 2008)

Scottie Pippen had a long career, what was 16 years, but I thought he only had about 8-9 seasons as an All-Star caliber player (89-98). And in about four of those seasons, I thought he was an MVP caliber (conversation for top 5 league wide) player (92-96). 

I thought Clyde Drexler's prime lasted much longer than Pip's, more like a dozen years or so, where Clyde was an All-Star caliber player. I thought Drexler also had 3-4 years of being in the MVP conversation, but that he was overshadowed by other players at that time (end of Magic's career + MJ). 

For the longevity of things, I'd go with Clyde. Overall, I thought he was a better quality player for a longer period of time.

If I were picking solely from their peak form ... that's a tough call, very close ... I think I'd go with Pippen because I'd rather have his superior defensive ability over Drexler's superior scoring ability ... it's a coin flip though, very close.


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## someone (Jul 17, 2007)

I'd pick Pippen for his defense


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

23AJ said:


> Can't agree here. Pippen was part of one of the biggest melt downs in playoff history when he was on the Blazers. And he was suppose to be on the Blazers to help them get over the top, and give the Blazers that leadership ability when things got tough in the playoffs. No such luck.




wasn't drexler also part of one the biggest meltdowns in playoff history?

when the blazers lost a 16 point lead in the 4th quarter in game 6 of the 1992 finals to the bulls bench players?


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

23AJ said:


> I grew up watching 80s/90s basketball.
> 
> Pippen played 42 minutes and was complete garbage, he scored one bucket, and the Bulls lost. Let's not start acting like he was Jordan with the flu in Utah. Check.
> 
> ...


i am not even going to go word for word with you because quite simply you got most of wrong .

for instance you say pippen got punked by oakley(who is and was pippen's friend from their days in chi. and mcdaniel ...i say check the stats pippen clearly outplayed them.

drexler's biggest moment in the playoffs was mj lighting him up(35 1st half points) ...you say drexler held him in the 2nd half ....you do realize the bulls won that game by 33(122-89)?

the game was not in doubt after halftime.

drexler may feel as you do that he had bigger moments ....but that is the image most basketball fans have when they think of drexler in the finals it was the one he was the most hyped for Clyde vs. MJ...therefore its the biggest

he was in other finals for instance the one the pistons won...and isiah was clearly the story of those finals , not any singular game ...not that it mattered the pistons won the series 4-1

the nba finals series that drexler won was really about how great olajuwon was and how he handled shaq in a lopsided 4-0 series win 
to me its funny people try to say drexler is better than pippen by naming pip's faults ( or supposed faults because alot of the time people are wrong or its just opinion) 

not so much on drexler's stregnths

to me that says alot

you say drexler had alot of clutch playoff moments . 

in a thread about him being matched up with a great player no one has named 1 ....i am not saying no one can name any but its telling none of his supporters have even bothered to do so instead focusing on pippen after 40 or so posts and 3 pages of a thread.

in fact no one has named a single game and mentioned anything drexler did in them...but posters have done that for pippen both good and bad....except me naming drexler getting lit up in game 1 of the 1992 finals.

people want to vague ...but pip wins the vague stats of accomplishment

6 titles to 1 for drexler
3 all nba to 1 for drexler
7 time all star to drexler's 10 
1 time all star mvp to drexler's 0
2 time olympic gold medal to drexler's 1
8 time defensive all nba to drexler's 0

there is stuff like this 

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/events/1998/playoffs/news/1998/06/11/jordan_pippen/



> "Scottie Pippen is the reason, a major reason, why we're here," Jordan said Thursday. "He's a unique and creative type of player offensively and defensively. And the harmony between the two of us is incomparable. You can't compare it to anything. That's taken time to deliver and trust each other to where we compliment each other."
> 
> Against Utah, Pippen has been floating all over the floor. One second he's at the top of the key, the next he's doubling Karl Malone. In Game 3, when Chicago held Utah to a record-low 54 points, Pippen interrupted the pick-and-roll with his quickness and closed off Malone's inside game by planting himself in front of the basket and drawing charges.
> 
> ...


in the end MJ won the mvp , he had a great game 6, capped with that magical shot to end it as an injured pippen did his best after being injured taking a charge from karl malone , an injury that required surgery in the offseason...and basically ended his prime.

drexler was an excellent player, but if you swapped pippen for drexler in that series i find it really hard to believe the above article would have said things like its hard to tell who would be the mvp between the 2.


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## JerryWest (Jun 24, 2002)

People who are undermining Pippen like 23AJ have selective memories. First off, Pippen only got to lead a team during its peak for two seasons. During those two season, the Bulls made no attempt to add a star player to replace Jordan. You are either dishonest or an imbecile if you don't account for that. He doesn't need a HoF player, but the Bulls would have needed to add a replacement scorer first for it to be a fair comparison. It's like taking Malone away from Stockton and then asking when Stockton never got anywhere. You have to at least add someone like Larry Johnson caliber to account for the loss of the player.

During the Blazers years, Pippen had declined physically by a large amount due to age and injuries, he still showed great leadership skills, and that Blazers squad was the closest to beating the Lakers during their 3-peat compared to any other team.

Defensively Pippen was an all time great able to shut down anyone from a PG to a SF. Drexler couldn't do that. He also was better on the boards than Drexler. Offensively, Pippen was a better ball handler and passer than Drexler. Drexler was a better scorer but the distance in that isn't close to sufficient to cover Pippen's superiority in all other aspects of his game.


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## Najee (Apr 5, 2007)

VanillaPrice said:


> Then why didn't Clyde ever have much sucsess as a first option? You can't hold not winning a 'ship as a first option when Clyde couldn't either.


Portland went to two NBA Finals in three seasons and three straight conference finals with Clyde Drexler as its top player. When Scottie Pippen was the top player for Chicago in 1993-94, the Bulls got to the second round of the playoffs. In 1994-95, the Bulls were fighting for a playoff spot before Michael Jordan came out of retirement (not to mention Pippen went back to his No. 2 role when Jordan came out of retirement, even though Jordan's game obviously had rust).

It's reaching to call Pippen the top player for the Portland team in 1999-2000; it's more realistic he was the fourth-best player on the team after Rasheed Wallace and (depending on the particular night) Damon Stoudamire and Steve Smith.

Pippen was an all-star player who deservingly will be inducted into the Basketball Hall of Fame for helping Chicago win its six titles, but people tend to overstate what he did as if he was some dominant player. It's also disingenious to try to use the team awards logic in comparison, particularly when Jordan was the main reason Pippen was in position to win a lot of his accolades (teams and individual).


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## Najee (Apr 5, 2007)

KennethTo said:


> People who are undermining Pippen like 23AJ have selective memories. First off, Pippen only got to lead a team during its peak for two seasons. During those two season, the Bulls made no attempt to add a star player to replace Jordan.


The problem with your argument is that you're arguing that Scottie Pippen was a better player than Clyde Drexler, who generally was considered one of the top 10 players or so in the NBA during his prime. Yet the Pippen-led Bulls did worse than the Drexler-led Blazers and the Bulls in the mid-1990s played in a weaker conference than what Drexler's Blazers teams faced.

So if Pippen was supposedly better than Drexler during their respective primes, it doesn't really bear out in most comparisons (team success as top players, individual numbers, etc). By that logic, Pippen should have been no worse than guys like Hakeem Olajuwon, David Robinson, Charles Barkley, Karl Malone, etc. -- which is even more laughable, IMO.



KennethTo said:


> He doesn't need a HoF player, but the Bulls would have needed to add a replacement scorer first for it to be a fair comparison. It's like taking Malone away from Stockton and then asking when Stockton never got anywhere. You have to at least add someone like Larry Johnson caliber to account for the loss of the player.


Except during the mid-1990s, Larry Johnson was an All-Star caliber. The second best player during Drexler's late '80s/early '90s teams was Terry Porter, who was an above average player. 

This is the part I'm not understanding: Pippen supposedly is a better player than Drexler (which presumably puts Pippen in the Hakeem/Admiral/Mailman/Barkley class, which I find laughable BTW) but yet he needs a teammate at least as good as him in order to pull a team IN ADDITION to having the core of a team that won three straight titles and the same coaching staff? And play in a comparably weaker conference?



KennethTo said:


> During the Blazers years, Pippen had declined physically by a large amount due to age and injuries, he still showed great leadership skills, and that Blazers squad was the closest to beating the Lakers during their 3-peat compared to any other team.


I'm not getting where you're getting this idea Pippen was considered a leader in Portland. Pip had similar meltdowns as well as his teammates (such as trying to call out Kobe Bryant in the 2001 playoffs and then losing his cool the next game by taking a shot at Bryant's ribs) during his time in Portland. In fact, former Blazers teammate and former ESPN analyst Greg Anthony frequently made comments on the air about Pippen not bringing the leadership he was hailed for having.



KennethTo said:


> Defensively Pippen was an all time great able to shut down anyone from a PG to a SF. Drexler couldn't do that. He also was better on the boards than Drexler. Offensively, Pippen was a better ball handler and passer than Drexler. Drexler was a better scorer but the distance in that isn't close to sufficient to cover Pippen's superiority in all other aspects of his game.


Pippen and Drexler were equal as far as rebounding. I would say both are pretty equal in the ball-handling and passing department; Pippen may have a slight edge but again it's another area where he gets overrated for. Pippen was great playing the passing lanes on defense, and Drexler was very good at it. 

Pippen was a more versatile defender than Drexler, but people tend to gloss over the fact that Pippen really didn't stop the top small forwards earlier in his career (see Dominique Wilkins, James Worthy). Pippen's top years coincided with the fact the position went through a talent drought in the mid to late '90s (Grant Hill was the only other consistent All-Star caliber player at the 3 spot), so he didn't have to work quite as hard vs. other small forwards.

The issue I have is how people overrate Pippen. He's more comparable to Drexler (though Drexler is better overall as a player and is one who has done better in the top dog role), but some people act like he clearly is superior to Drexler. Well, if that is the case then who do these people consider Pippen's peers? He's not in the same class as Barkley, Olajuwon, Robinson and Malone (who I would consider on the next level above Drexler) and he surely wasn't in Michael Jordan's class.


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## Najee (Apr 5, 2007)

Blue Magic said:


> OneBadLT pretty much covered everything I was gonna say, but one thing to add is that Portland also reached the WCF's the year prior to Pippen's arrival.


People also tend to overlook Scottie Pippen's one season in Houston, where he clearly struggled as Clyde Drexler's replacement. Even though Drexler was older than Pippen, Drexler's numbers in his final NBA season in 1997-98 were better than what Pippen produced in the offense in the 1999 lockout season.


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

Drexler, but it's close and we'll never know how much more we'd have seen from Pippen had he not had Jordan there leading the team. He was a top 5 player and top 5 MVP in 93-94, and that's fact. That's the only season he played without Jordan and it was fantastic. His defense really does separate him from Drexler, but Drexler could score quite a bit more. And despite Pippen's fantastic court vision, that isn't much of an edge over Drexler who was probably an underrated passer.


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## c_dog (Sep 15, 2002)

for me, pippen's inability to have a decent career outside of MJ's bulls tarnished his legacy. he did have a very good season the year jordan retired in but where was his game when he was playing for the rockets and blazers? he was voted one of nba's 50 greatest players, but if the nba were a couple years younger and we had seen his play on the blazers, would he still have made the top 50 list?

for me it's got to be clyde. man showed versatility to thrive in any role he was given, for different teams.


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## JerryWest (Jun 24, 2002)

Najee said:


> The problem with your argument is that you're arguing that Scottie Pippen was a better player than Clyde Drexler, who generally was considered one of the top 10 players or so in the NBA during his prime. Yet the Pippen-led Bulls did worse than the Drexler-led Blazers and the Bulls in the mid-1990s played in a weaker conference than what Drexler's Blazers teams faced.
> 
> So if Pippen was supposedly better than Drexler during their respective primes, it doesn't really bear out in most comparisons (team success as top players, individual numbers, etc). By that logic, Pippen should have been no worse than guys like Hakeem Olajuwon, David Robinson, Charles Barkley, Karl Malone, etc. -- which is even more laughable, IMO.
> 
> ...


It's laughable that imply that Pippen dealt with less competition. First off, he took on the other team's best offensive perimeter player for the first decade of his career. Offensively he was a difficult assignment due to his size and ball handling skills. Drexler got the same advantage as Jordan playing against the worst SGs the league has seen in the 80's and early 90's. The league was filed with mostly short unathletic long range shooters. Drexler's defense is no where near Pippen's league, he's never stopped anybody. He was a solid to good defensive player but was only moderately good because of the subpar competition at the SG spot for most of his career.

Why the hell are you bringing up Barkley, Hakeem, Robinson or Malone? Don't change the topic, he is clearly better Drexler. That's all that matters for this debate, it doesn't matter that wasn't as good as Magic, Hakeem or Wilt or other top ten players.

If you want to go the comparison route, I'll put it this way. If both guys were in their prime, Pippen would have comparable value to a prime Kevin Garnett IMO. Drexler would be like a 2nd tier star SG. He'd be a little above Joe Johnson playing against other guards that have real length. Drexler has the benefit of so many all star teams because the SG position was pathetically weak compared to the way it is now.


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## JerryWest (Jun 24, 2002)

Yes he does need another all star. You would be a numbskull to believe otherwise. Just like Penny Hardaway would have needed another player to replace Shaq. It wouldn't need to be the best center in the league but it would have to be someone. Especially considering that Jordan was a big part of the Bulls salary. You don't take away 1/3 of the cap space you spend on a player, not replace it with anything meaningful and expect the same results.

Also, do you know any history? Are you aware that Horace Grant, who was the 3rd best player on the Bulls 3 peat left for the Orlando Magic too. Don't tell me the core is there. Pippen had Horace for one year and did pretty well, even without the Bulls spending the extra cap space they had another player (or group of players that would have been the same comparable salary to Jordan)

So the team loses 2 of its best 3 players, and the remaining one is left alone without any additional pieces and you think that is a fair oomparison? Please.


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## OneBadLT123 (Oct 4, 2005)

KennethTo said:


> It's laughable that imply that Pippen dealt with less competition. First off, he took on the other team's best offensive perimeter player for the first decade of his career. Offensively he was a difficult assignment due to his size and ball handling skills. Drexler got the same advantage as Jordan playing against the worst SGs the league has seen in the 80's and early 90's. The league was filed with mostly short unathletic long range shooters. Drexler's defense is no where near Pippen's league, he's never stopped anybody. He was a solid to good defensive player but was only moderately good because of the subpar competition at the SG spot for most of his career.
> 
> Why the hell are you bringing up Barkley, Hakeem, Robinson or Malone? Don't change the topic, he is clearly better Drexler. That's all that matters for this debate, it doesn't matter that wasn't as good as Magic, Hakeem or Wilt or other top ten players.
> 
> If you want to go the comparison route, I'll put it this way. If both guys were in their prime, Pippen would have comparable value to a prime Kevin Garnett IMO. *Drexler would be like a 2nd tier star SG. He'd be a little above Joe Johnson playing against other guards that have real length. Drexler has the benefit of so many all star teams because the SG position was pathetically weak compared to the way it is now.*


You're delusional. You know, I was respecting your opinion up until this statement. Its just flat out asinine. My goodness.


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## Jordan23Forever (May 14, 2005)

KennethTo said:


> If both guys were in their prime, Pippen would have comparable value to a prime Kevin Garnett IMO.


:lol:



> Drexler would be like a 2nd tier star SG. He'd be a little above Joe Johnson playing against other guards that have real length.


:lol:


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## Gilgamesh (Dec 23, 2005)

I see a lot of good arguments in this thread put forth for both Drexler and Pippen.

IMO both are in the same tier and if I had to choose one I pick Pippen mainly for his defense and versatility. 

Is Drexler underrated? IMO yes.

Is Pippen overrated? IMO yes by people who place him top 3 SF all-time over the likes of Bird, Elgin, and Dr. J. I also have Hondo over Pip. 

Individually even though Drexler had a couple higher scoring seasons than Pippen at both their respective peaks I don't see a big advantage going to either side. Actually I thought Pippen was more complete offensively because of his post game but Drexler had more of a scorer's mentality.

Defensively Pippen was simply superior.

In terms of team success - can we blame Drexler for not having MJ? Better yet should we blame Pippen for having MJ? If we use 93-94 as Pippen's MJ-less example, he did help lead the Bulls to a 55 win season but Drexler led the Blazers to two NBA finals. Here is a question which player had better help in those years? I have always defended that Pip had two other all-stars (i.e. Horace Grant and BJ), a clutch shot maker (Kukoc), and the Zen master but Drexler had a better supporting cast. I take Porter over BJ, Buck cancels Horace, Kersey over Kukoc, sixth man Cliff Robinson, Ainge over Kerr and people forget Duckworth who was a 2-time all-star. The Blazers were a deep team. Sheed and Smith were the "go-to" players on the 99-00 Blazers but Pippen was the leader. They also lost to a 67 win with a motivated Shaq Lakers in 7 games. Not to mention Pip was 34. The 94-95 underdog Rockets were amazing to watch though with Hakeem and Drexler teaming together again (although they only went 17-18 together in the regular season) but you had a MVP caliber Hakeem that I take over Sheed, Smith, and the remaining starters on the 99-00 Blazers.

Drexler was a great player - 2nd tier superstar but IMO other than defense (which Pip wins hands down) I don't really see a strong enough argument when it comes down to other individual skills or team success that would make me choose him over Pippen or vice versa. Simply put, neither was significantly better or greater than the other.


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## [email protected] (Nov 2, 2009)

Clyde was the better scorer and shooter. Pippen perfected the point forward position, and was the GOAT perimeter defender. Many forget that in 1993-94, Pippen put up 22/9/5/3/1. Pippen in the brief time he led the Bulls, accomplished quite a bit. Not to mention 3rd in MVP voting. The main factor here is defense, which Scottie owns Clyde in. Give me the defensive specialist.


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