# Can Kobe get a fair trial?



## osman (Jul 29, 2003)

It was reported on the show celebrety justice that not to long ago the police department in Eagle county was forced to pay $800,000 to the less than 1% African American population in Eagle because of racial profiling. Do you think tha Kobe will get a fair trial?


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## osman (Jul 29, 2003)

I also forgot to mention the fact that its a very small town, and in most small towns everyone is very close and protective of each other, thus they might side with one of their own, I doubt he will get a fair trial.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

No, I don't think he can. Most of the members of the jury will feel pity on the girl because it's such a small town.

The trial should be moved to Denver. However, if he did it...he really doesn't deserve a fair trial at all, but everyone's entitled to it.


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## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

^^^^^^ Damian I'm surprised that you say he doesn't deserve one if he did it. Everyone one does especially guilty people. 

I don't think he can get a fair trial in that town. With 1% of the people being black its just not likely. I know people will go on ad nauseum but you can be naive not me. I live in the real world. I know people in small white towns without the benefit of everyday interaction with other minorities tend to accept stereotypes of those minorities because they have no frame of reference. I think they may go into the trial with the presumption that no one from our town would make a false allegation and that this black athlete tried to take advantage of one of our own. 

Fair trial probably not but he'll still be not guilty.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

Well, I don't think rapists deserve anything, even if they are Kobe Bryant...


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## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

A better question would be can the people of the state of Colorado and the alleged victim get a fair trial?

Million dollar lawyers, high priced PR companies and public image add up to make it nearly impossible to get a conviction against a celebrity even if they are guilty.

You're grossly overestimating the 'race card' in this case. OJ Simpson, a black man who was clearly guilty of a double murder, was found not guilty thanks to his team of lawyers and his public image. Was that fair? Nope.


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## Spartacus Triumvirate (Jan 30, 2003)

Ah, so now the Laker board is ready to play the RACE CARD, eh? Geez, you all must really be getting worried.

First off, if you had your facts straight - the racial profiling was in response to a federal operation that was trying to stop the run of drugs by the CA Cryps gang through Eagle Co. Only one officer is involved with the Bryant case who was involved in that operation. He was not even involved in the Bryant investigation at the beginning because he was said to be on vacation. As for your profiling case, the police tried to get the motorists who were pulled over to consent to searches. No argument the motorists were mostly black and hispanic. I wonder what profile comprises the Cryps. I've got news for you. Racial profiling goes on everywhere and sometimes we're just a little too damned stupid for our own good. Ever fly? You really think our random pat downs are best served on the great looking blonde or grandma? I forget and maybe some intellectual in here can remind me how many of the hijackers were good looking females or little old ladies. God forbid we actually acknowledge the MO of a criminal. Society is much better served by being PC at all costs. By the way, the money was paid to some of the motorists who could be located and the rest was used in a criminal justice program designed to educate against racial profiling. 

Let me be real clear. Blacks and Hispanics should be offended at the thought that the color of their skin alone makes them more likely to be viewed as law breakers than others. If the Feds thought the MO of the drug runners was blacks and hispanics driving CA plated cars through Eagle CO., they should have set up road blocks and stopped everyone if need be. Whatever it took to satisfy the legal requirements of the operation. Again, they DID NOT violate their rights such as performing illegal searches and siezures. They profiled who the likely drug runners were and pulled them over and attempted to get the motorist to consent to a search. That was the charge and that was the settlement.

And while I'm on the subject, let me also be real clear that all this BULLCRAP that whites cannot be fair and give Bryant a fair trial is likewise offensive. In case you're not aware of the situation, the Supreme Court has ruled RACE is not a valid reason for a change of venue. And in the words of an illustrious talking head on MSNBC, Bryant was well aware of the type of community he was going into in the first place. If he had reservations, perhaps he should have conducted himself a little differently. Everyone loves to throw this "the woman got what she deserved going up to his room" crap around. Well, if you wanna believe Bryant is going to get railroaded because whites are racists, I guess you'd have to conclude "Bryant will get what he deserves for going to Eagle Co."

I believe Bryant will be acquitted whether he's guilty or innocent even though the hearsay certainly seems pretty damaging at this point. Bryant is a celebrity, he's known by his first name alone - how many people in the US can lay claim to this, he transcends race like a Magic Johnson, he has fame, fortune and celebrity. The normal Joe does not have the money to buy the experts who can destroy every last piece of evidence or crucify every witness or pick apart every law enforcement official for the most minute of technicalites. They can make it seem as though EVERYTHING must occur according to the book and exactly like they say it should or their defendant can not possibly be found guilty. Juries are made to believe that everything is questionable and nothing becomes believable. Its insane to believe evidence against the normal Joe is held to the same scrutiny that it will be against a celbrity. The same bellman who would help convict you will likely be torn to shreds when its the rich and powerful who he's testifying against.

Go ahead, talk the talk. Play the race card. Just remember you're doing some convincing Racial Profiling of your own by suggesting WHITE PEOPLE ARE INCAPABLE OF FINDING A BLACK MAN INNOCENT. Guess what it happens all the time. I'll bet its even happened in Eagle Co. 

Ah, but thats OK, right? Accusing whites of being racist is never being racist. And being PC only applies to those who are white. And any white who dare defend such a position will be going on 'ad nauseum', eh? Sounds like racism is alive and well to me and right here on this board. Da, Gee Tennessee, I know people who live in small towns and duh, day don't see none of dem dear minority folk and dear just too stupid to understand 'cause dear not round dem. Its not dear fault dear stupid, day just ain't got no frame of reference. Excuse me Chumley, could you possibly STEREOTYPE any more? Again, you can be racist and stereotype and thats ok. You're not naive. You are da man. You declare you have a bias so everyone else must. You are da voice of reason. You are da-luted.

The only nauseum I'm getting is listening to worried and NAIVE laker fans who only seem to believe racism is a one way street.


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## Kyle (Jul 1, 2003)

They are saying that Kobe is going to ask for a change of venue.


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## Sha-Kobe O'Bryant (Jan 3, 2003)

* 
Barb may not speak for everyone here, but it's opinions like hers that have Kobe supporters biting their knuckles. She says, "Kobe has a white lawyer, a white doctor, he violated a white daughter, and he has lots of white fans, but he doesn’t want a white jury and we don’t quite understand that." *

http://celebrityjustice.warnerbros.com/news/03/08/05a.html



*"Now we just need to get Kobe off the streets and the world will once again be safe for us all.* 

While a little perspective is welcome, I also ask, who is kidding whom? 

An NBA player in trouble with the law? Imagine that. 

A wealthy celebrity committing adultery? Why, I'm shocked. 

A man having sex with a woman in a hotel room? Well, I never. 

However, forcing said sex against the woman's wishes? Castration comes to mind. 

Let's keep this simple: 

Man flirts - girl flirts. 

Man teases - girl teases. 

Man invites - girl accepts. 

Man horny - girl not. 

Man forces - girl fights. 

*Man finishes - girl finished, and this girl is one of our own."* 

http://www.vaildaily.com/apps/pbcs....=COLUMS&Lopenr=307280401&Ref=AR&template=art2


Just a couple examples of the mindset of some of the Eagle County residents. Does that mean all believe the same? Who knows. There are also reports of numerous buisnesses in that small town having banners hanging outside their establishments pleading with residents of the town to "support the family." If the quotes of the people above and the reports of signs all over the town saying everyone should "support the family" are true, no way Kobe gets a fair trial, IMO. Has nothing to do with me being a Laker fan and im far from naive. Im also not naive enough to believe that all the "damning evidence" that's being leaked out by the D.A. to the residents of that town will not taint their views where this case is concerned. Add the leaks of the alleged evidence to opinions like the two above, chances of a fair trial in Eagle County are very slim. Sad state of affairs in the year 2003.


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## robert60446 (Nov 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Spartacus Triumvirate</b>!
> Go ahead, talk the talk. Play the race card. Just remember you're doing some convincing Racial Profiling of your own by suggesting WHITE PEOPLE ARE INCAPABLE OF FINDING A BLACK MAN INNOCENT. Guess what it happens all the time. I'll bet its even happened in Eagle Co.
> 
> Ah, but thats OK, right? Accusing whites of being racist is never being racist. And being PC only applies to those who are white. And any white who dare defend such a position will be going on 'ad nauseum', eh? Sounds like racism is alive and well to me and right here on this board.


:clap: :clap: :clap: this is 100% true! Very good post!


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## Spartacus Triumvirate (Jan 30, 2003)

First off, this guy is a weekly columnist for the paper. Sure he may express a view held by some. Does he speak for Eagle? Well, do all of the reporters covering the Lakers speak for them? I know of no big city where there isn't at least one diluted reporter covering the team.

It sounds to me like this guy got as annoyed as I did seeing the race card being played.



> This local young lady is being shredded apart without ever once opening her mouth to the media, while yet another falling-from-grace superstar athlete buys jewelry, character witnesses and overpriced lawyers to help proclaim his alleged innocence on national TV.
> 
> Our sheriff is compared to Barney Fife. Our DA is receiving threats of various natures, including death. Our town has been called "middle-class Š where bored teens hang out at the Texaco station, then drive off to party through the night in the hills." And our entire population referred to as "mountain people," insinuating we are some kind of uneducated backwoods hillbillies incapable of grasping the difference between adultery and rape.
> 
> ...


What part of this do you disagree with. I've seen the media reports and heard the exact quotes he's reporting. Its ok for their town, their people to be disgraced, their moral and ethical beliefs dirtied, their racial motives slurred, but God forbid they have a response. Its so easy for LA to grab the high ground, eh? Well, I guess that means I can draw a mountain of conclusions about a city with a VERY TROUBLED PAST of its own. A lone racial profiling case in the county in Colorado? Hardly a pimple on the arse of Los Angeles and what we've seen from that (place). 

*Ah, but I digress. I guess everybody in Eagle is supposed to just "lay down and take it".* 

And of the two people quoted in the celebrity justice article, why didn't you quote the other one?



> Willie Powell is the town manager. He says his town is as concerned with the truth as any in America. Like other townsfolk, he bristles at any inference that justice isn't colorblind in Eagle.


Doesn't fit the stereotype the Kobe camp wants to create, eh? I'm sure justice is colorblind in LA. Just ask OJ who has never escaped the stigma that he did it but beat the wrap.

I noticed nobodies taking Bryant to task for pulling out the MLK Jr. quote. "An injustice against anybody is an injustice against everybody". Oh, but thats right, those should not be considered powerful words echoing against white people. Because like OJ before him, Bryant is incapable of being being treated fairly by the "white trash in Eagle CO." Naturally, black people would make for a far more fair trial. Is that because they're more fair-minded than whites? Is that what the suggestion here is? Or is it because the idiots who believe a black jury would naturally acquit him would do it only because of the color of his skin? So now blacks are the idiots? Help me, I get so confused. Are you saying whites are racists who aren't fair minded or blacks are racists who aren't fair minded? I'll tell ya what I see so far, things must be getting worrisome and perhaps the only card in Bryants deck is quickly becoming the race card.

Yes, it is a sad state of affairs in 2003 when white communities can still be reviled by minorities at will and this is deemed ok. Yes, it is a sad state of affairs when Los Angeles of all places can start talking trash about other cities. Yes, it is a sad state of affairs in 2003 when its ok to trash a community solely because its largely white and then trash them again when a columnist in the community says - not so fast. Yes, it is a sad state of affairs in 2003 when people stand behind and vote for idols just weeks after admitting to an adulterous affair and being charged with rape. 

Yes, it is a sad state of affairs in 2003.

When ALL groups can start to TREAT EACH OTHER with respect perhaps race cards will no longer exist. Its a two way street ladies and gentleman.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Sha-Kobe O'Bryant</b>!
> *
> Barb may not speak for everyone here, but it's opinions like hers that have Kobe supporters biting their knuckles. She says, "Kobe has a white lawyer, a white doctor, he violated a white daughter, and he has lots of white fans, but he doesn’t want a white jury and we don’t quite understand that." *
> 
> ...


This is an interesting point. Will the leaks of the DA and all the support for the "alleged victim" taint the jury pool. I don't know about moving the trial because I haven't heard anything concrete yet. I haven't heard who all these witnesses are except for the tabloids. I'll reserve my judgment after I see some real evidence.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Spartacus Triumvirate</b>!
> First off, this guy is a weekly columnist for the paper. Sure he may express a view held by some. Does he speak for Eagle? Well, do all of the reporters covering the Lakers speak for them? I know of no big city where there isn't at least one diluted reporter covering the team.
> 
> It sounds to me like this guy got as annoyed as I did seeing the race card being played.
> ...


Spartacus the problem with reading any media in regard to this trial is that everyone seems to have taken a position on this matter. Either you believe Kobe is innocent or she is telling the truth. I reserve judgment until I know facts, but others aren't like that. 

As far as people calling them mountain people, most of that have come from their colleagues in the media. Just watch Around the Horn, they have said most of that stuff. I don't think it's fair, but to say everyone is trashing the female, when every move Kobe makes is examined is just as biased period. 

But this won't stop because the media needs something to talk about, and they will talk about this till the cows come home, because Americans are "SHEEP". I remind you, if this becomes racial I will not watch one minute of this trial. I DO HAVE A LIFE TO LIVE MYSELF.


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## Spartacus Triumvirate (Jan 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>newmessiah10</b>!
> 
> 
> Spartacus the problem with reading any media in regard to this trial is that everyone seems to have taken a position on this matter. Either you believe Kobe is innocent or she is telling the truth. I reserve judgment until I know facts, but others aren't like that.
> ...


messiah, 

I certainly haven't been posting much on the Kobe issue lately, but I do take it as an offensive and racial insult when it can be said in the clear light of day that white people cannot be fair. If the talk centers in this direction, I'd expect I'd wind up posting more not less.

My posts on the subject have been open regardless of what some may like to suggest. I've given possibilities on how each party could have been wronged. I've avoided jumping on here day after day to give thoughts on the days events. I've stated before that if the victim ain't getting a free ride here, Kobe ain't either. Laker fans don't like it? Tough. Think I'm hatin' on Kobe. Whatever. Like I said, I've posted on both sides of the street. But, this race thing? That craps intolerable. Bryant is accused of wronging that community and it is that communities right to hear the case. That is the premise behind jurisdiction. If Kobe were accused of the same exact scenario in LA would white people being crying foul that it needs to get moved to a white suburb out of the city because blacks are incapable of providing a fair trial based on their ethnic bias? Its pretty obvious with the riots that LA ain't no big happy melting pot. Perhaps their view of the rest of the country is a little skewed. If its so difficult for whites to be fair minded, how is it we have all of this legislation? Aren't the majority of legislators white? Wasn't it likely that majority who put into law and upheld racial profiling to begin with?

Both Kobe and the victim are getting treated poorly in many ways. Did anyone see the interview with the Starbucks guy who works a block from Kobe's house and says Kobe was joking about the rape charges while the bodyguard was disparaging the alleged victim? Did anybody post trying to make that into some great story? Thats worthless. To me its about as worthless as some guys account that she "sized" up Kobe. Personally, I don't care if either story is true. Who knows how somebody who may have been raped is supposed to act - especially at such a young age when they're not likely to be very mature in the first place. And who knows what it may be like and how one should act after being wrongly accused of such a HEINOUS crime? I can only say, I would not want to be in either of their shoes at this time.

Everyone wants to think people who post for the victim here hate Kobe. Not so. I think most are trying to make the point that Kobe isn't any no-look, slam dunk innocent just because he's a famously wealthy and popular basketball star.


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## Sha-Kobe O'Bryant (Jan 3, 2003)

This is what i disagree with:

*Man flirts - girl flirts.

Man teases - girl teases.

Man invites - girl accepts.

Man horny - girl not.

Man forces - girl fights.

Man finishes - girl finished, and this girl is one of our own*

In his mind, Kobe has been tried and convicted. You bet it bothers me. The man is a journalist. His colum quite possibly goes into 95% of the homes in Eagle County. You believe that in no way could taint the jury pool? Cmon. Not to mention the "and this girl is one of our own" statement. Seems it is he who wants to make the residents of Eagle County believe this is an Us vs. Them issue. 

This is what i disagree with:

*Barb may not speak for everyone here, but it's opinions like hers that have Kobe supporters biting their knuckles. She says, "Kobe has a white lawyer, a white doctor, he violated a white daughter, and he has lots of white fans, but he doesn’t want a white jury and we don’t quite understand that*

First of all, how does she know Kobe's doctor is white? He violated a white daughter? What the hell is that suppose to mean? Not to mention the fact she has also tried and convicted Kobe. Violate? How does she know this to be true? Sounds and awful lot like yet another potential juror who has already made up her mind.

You bring up Los Angeles' troubled past. Believe me im very well aware of what has happened and continues to happen here. Then you go on to say that one lone racial profiling case in Colorado cant hold a candle to all the racial unrest that has occured in Los Angeles. I must say you are absolutely correct. However, did it occur to you that the fact that only 1% of the population in Eagle County is African American could have something to do with the fact that not many racial issues have arised? Lack of opportunity equates to lack of unrest? Possibly. Just a thought. To say that the lead investigator in Kobe's case was responsible for 29 of those racial profiling incidents has absolutely NO barring is(no offense)as you put it- a little naive.



> I noticed nobodies taking Bryant to task for pulling out the MLK Jr. quote. "An injustice against anybody is an injustice against everybody".


I see no reason why Kobe should be taken to task for using this quote. Its the absolute truth. The prosecution is trying this case in the media. Not the defense. Its an injustice that in the court of public opinion Kobe is already guilty. The fact that it will be the public, specifically the people of Eagle County if no COV is granted, will be the one's deciding this case. Its an injustice when a man is suppose to be innocent until proven guilty, yet a great deal of people have already convicted Kobe. Its an injustice when members of the Eagle county sheriff department can continue to discuss this case to the media continually tainting an already small jury pool.



> I'll tell ya what I see so far, things must be getting worrisome and perhaps the only card in Bryants deck is quickly becoming the race card.


Again, I have to disagree. As I stated earlier, its the prosecution that is trying this case in the media. Not the defense. The defense has not, nor do they have to show their "hand" until this goes in front of a jury. Everyone is so willing to take all these leaks from the D.A.'s office and run with them. Any evidence supporting Kobe that will be revealed later on be damned. OF COURSE it looks bad for Kobe right now, as it should. All the leaks of this "damning evidence" is coming from the prosecution. What would you expect?



> Yes, it is a sad state of affairs in 2003 when people stand behind and vote for idols just weeks after admitting to an adulterous affair and being charged with rape.


Why is it a sad state of affairs to believe a man is *INNOCENT* until proven guilty? As you stated yourself, "charged" with rape. Not tried and convicted. As far as his affair is concerned, thats none of my business. If he is not or has not comitted a crime, what Kobe does in his bedroom and with whom he does it is none of our business. This about rather or not Kobe has done something criminal. It's innocent until proven guilty.


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## Spartacus Triumvirate (Jan 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Sha-Kobe O'Bryant</b>!
> In his mind, Kobe has been tried and convicted. You bet it bothers me. The man is a journalist. His colum quite possibly goes into 95% of the homes in Eagle County. You believe that in no way could taint the jury pool? Cmon.


Whose being naive? Sure it wasn't the LA media when they jumped onboard Kobe's - _You know me and I'd nver do something like that_ comedy act? Columnists get paid to write columns and influence public opinion. In case you missed it, this is not simply an Eagle Co. phenomenon.



> Originally posted by <b>Sha-Kobe O'Bryant</b>!
> Seems it is he who wants to make the residents of Eagle County believe this is an Us vs. Them issue.


It seems to me he pointed out how his community is getting trashed. It looks to me like he's on the defensive not the offensive and rightfully so. Perhaps you have no desire nor reason to be proud of LA, but that doesn't mean folks elsewhere must follow suit.



> Originally posted by <b>Sha-Kobe O'Bryant</b>!
> This is what i disagree with:
> 
> *Barb may not speak for everyone here, but it's opinions like hers that have Kobe supporters biting their knuckles. She says, "Kobe has a white lawyer, a white doctor, he violated a white daughter, and he has lots of white fans, but he doesn’t want a white jury and we don’t quite understand that*
> ...


Again, whose being naive? You think its a revelation that even people in Eagle Co. are forming their opinions about this case? Yeah, lets rush it up to Denver. I''m sure nobodies aware of the case up there (and thank heavens it more black too!, right?)



> Originally posted by <b>Sha-Kobe O'Bryant</b>!
> You bring up Los Angeles' troubled past. Believe me im very well aware of what has happened and continues to happen here. Then you go on to say that one lone racial profiling case in Colorado cant hold a candle to all the racial unrest that has occured in Los Angeles. I must say you are absolutely correct. However, did it occur to you that the fact that only 1% of the population in Eagle County is African American could have something to do with the fact that not many racial issues have arised? Lack of opportunity equates to lack of unrest? Possibly. Just a thought.


Yup, I did think of that and it is a valid point. However, race is not a basis for a change of venue. I believe I heard there is a pool of about 450,000 from the county. I think they can find a dozen or so who can do the job. 



> Originally posted by <b>Sha-Kobe O'Bryant</b>!
> To say that the lead investigator in Kobe's case was responsible for 29 of those racial profiling incidents has absolutely NO barring is(no offense)as you put it- a little naive.


Again, whose being naive? Did you research to see what the racial profiling case was about? Specify exactly how you believe it does pertain to this case. Sure it sounds good in a sound bite, but get the foundation to go with it. As far as lead investigator, did he get a promotion? I heard it was reported he was involved in the case, but was not even there intially.



> Originally posted by <b>Sha-Kobe O'Bryant</b>!
> I see no reason why Kobe should be taken to task for using this quote. Its the absolute truth. The prosecution is trying this case in the media. Not the defense. Its an injustice that in the court of public opinion Kobe is already guilty. The fact that it will be the public, specifically the people of Eagle County if no COV is granted, will be the one's deciding this case. Its an injustice when a man is suppose to be innocent until proven guilty, yet a great deal of people have already convicted Kobe.


Well, if other posters can theorize about the "black-animal controlling his penis" (not my line of thinking) then yeah, I guess white people can find it racially motivated to invoke MLK, Jr. An injustice in the court of public opinion? Um, lifes an injustice. People will form opinions from day to day. Thats why they screen the jury. Happens every day in America. Already convicted Kobe? Well, he seems to be enjoying life as shown through the lens as a "convicted man". I couldn't care less whether people think he's guilty or innocent. Same for the victim. Whats important is we get the truth and justice gets served.



> Originally posted by <b>Sha-Kobe O'Bryant</b>!
> Its an injustice when members of the Eagle county sheriff department can continue to discuss this case to the media continually tainting an already small jury pool.


So hearsay is bad when its about Kobe, but its fact when its good for Kobe? Whose making those pre-judgements now? Has the Eagle Co. sheriff been accused by the court system? Have charges been filed? Aren't they presumed innocent of this? Don't ya just hate when people convict people in the court of public opinion? What an injustice!




> Originally posted by <b>Sha-Kobe O'Bryant</b>!
> Again, I have to disagree. As I stated earlier, its the prosecution that is trying this case in the media. Not the defense. The defense has not, nor do they have to show their "hand" until this goes in front of a jury. Everyone is so willing to take all these leaks from the D.A.'s office and run with them. Any evidence supporting Kobe that will be revealed later on be damned. OF COURSE it looks bad for Kobe right now, as it should. All the leaks of this "damning evidence" is coming from the prosecution. What would you expect?


So now its the DA guilty? See my point directly above. I find it humorous how none of the leaks could be from Kobe's side. And Kobe doesn't have a single investigator on the ground helping the media "find" these "alleged friends" who are willing to bad mouth the alleged victim. No, never Kobe. Its the state of Colorado. Its the DA. Its the Sheriff. Its the population of Eagle County. They're all conspiring to railroad this guy into the pen. I'm still waiting for Kobe's bodyguard on the grassy knoll to come forward and help exonerate him of all charges.



> Originally posted by <b>Sha-Kobe O'Bryant</b>!
> Why is it a sad state of affairs to believe a man is *INNOCENT* until proven guilty? As you stated yourself, "charged" with rape. Not tried and convicted.


I said nothing of the sort. Whether you'd like to minimize the fact he had an adulterous relationship or the fact that sufficient evidence exists to CHARGE HIM with rape, thats your deal. Yes, he's innocent until proven guility IN A COURT OF LAW. 



> Originally posted by <b>Sha-Kobe O'Bryant</b>!
> As far as his affair is concerned, thats none of my business. If he is not or has not comitted a crime, what Kobe does in his bedroom and with whom he does it is none of our business.


Well as Clintonesque as it all may be, his affair concerns me when SUFFICIENT EVIDENCE EXISTS TO CHARGE HIM WITH RAPE. THAT IS MY BUSINESS and it is THE PUBLICS BUSINESS. Thats why this stuff isn't tried in the shadows or in backrooms. 



> Originally posted by <b>Sha-Kobe O'Bryant</b>!
> This about rather or not Kobe has done something criminal. It's innocent until proven guilty.


Well, apparently even the white racists of Colorado think he's innocent until proven guilty because last check he wasn't convicted and he wasn't rotting in a pen.


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## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Spartacus Triumvirate</b>!
> 
> 
> messiah,
> ...




Man you're writing these novels while living in a fantasy world. In your world the LAPD don't frame brothers, in Philadelpia over a hundred cases don't get overturned because people get framed for racists reasons, Police don't profile, more blacks are in jail, YOU LIVE the fantasy that in this country race doesn't matter. 


I don't think these charges were brought because Kobe was black. 1st off. I think the DA looked at the evidence and came to the conclusion that a crime was committed. 

But in your WORLD 12 white jurors cut off from having interactions with blacks for the most part are gonna side with the Black guy because he's more believeabke. They are gonna ignore one of their daughters in order to set Kobe free. They are gonna give Kobe the presumption of innocence going into the trial. They are going to not have a view that this woman which some may know from a friend of a friend as an accuser and not a victim, yeah okay. 

Your mind is not open and you are blabbing the same biased stuff you were before when we discussed this. 

Give it a rest you're overkilling an insane POV. 

I'm black ,have been called the N word by whites in a small white town that I lived in while playing Junior college ball. To expect a fair trial in that environment is silly. 

Your perspective is coming from someone that has no idea what is like to get the bad end of disrespect and mistreatment, bias by police officers and harrasment by police officers. Unless you have felt that save your idealistic ramblings about fair trial. 

*HOW do you know Kobe's gonna get a fair trial Answer that question. How do you know before hand that he will. * 


Funny how a white cop whips a black mans *** a white jury thinks oh he did nothing, thats why they tore that city down. They had tape of the *** whipping and still let the cop get off. Now tell me how race doesn't matter. Get outta your dream world. Those white jurors let that cop off after watching it on tape and its not such a leap to think these white jurors might give Kobe the same shaft. 

Your not open to anything I can go back and dig up many instance where you've made accusatory and biased statements you are in no way unbiased stop saying it unless you're trying to make your self believe it. You can't even own your bias and thats why you're mentality is dangerous you make these riduclous arguments driving home your bias and then give some statement like well if Kobe did do it then but that doesn't take away the long drawn out diatribe. 

I can look up your bias and make a whole post about it. I have the proof if thats the way you want to play it. I own my bias you don't You hide behind yours with this thinly vailed objectivity.

Own it man own it. It'll make the argument go better. 

The people of Eagle county don't deserve to send a man to jail just because they are biased and not open minded enough to view evidence and give it the fair shake. Jury of his peers for some reason I just don't see the correlation with Kobe case.

What does Jury of his peers really mean.


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## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Spartacus Triumvirate</b>!
> 
> 
> Whose being naive? Sure it wasn't the LA media when they jumped onboard Kobe's - _You know me and I'd nver do something like that_ comedy act? Columnists get paid to write columns and influence public opinion. In case you missed it, this is not simply an Eagle Co. phenomenon.
> ...


Again more blathering on by you. 

Did you read the MLK JR quote, did you read it. It means if joe blow is railroaded down in Eagle county than people in LA have been wronged by the spirit of that injusitce. People everywhere sufffer under the guise of injustice if it is allowed to stand. 

Why did some perceive his statement as playing a race card. Because MLK Jr said it is that why why not take the statement for what was said instead of who said it. Whites immediately thought he was referencing that because that because he was playing the race card thats ridiculous. You know why they jumped to that point because they are thinking about race thats why. His statement was on target in he's feeling he's being done an injustice. Would it have been better if Richard Nixon said it would that have taken the racial implications off of it. Seems you jumped right to the race thing thats not what the statement read nothing about race in the statement and nothing about race when Dr. King said it . He was saying it from Jail when he was wrongfully incarcerated. He was referring the the act of injustice not just because it was in the context of just the civil war struggle. He made similar statements about the Vietnam war also. 

Kobe really didn't say the line correctly either. 

Why do you keep natering on about justce and the trith and you defend every notion coming from the other side. 

Again Own your bias. 

Why do you run from it. You don't like the Lakers Spurs fan and you don't like Kobe. You think Kobe is guilty and and you hide behind the shield of Objectivity. Bring down the shield. 

Your the only one hear making biased statements and saying I'm not biased I'm objective.

Whats your opinion about this case then, give me YOUR opinion or don't you have one. Everyone has one you just are too scared for arguments sake to own yours. thats all. 

I can dig up yur real thoughts in other posts if you need some help there.


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## Spartacus Triumvirate (Jan 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jazzy1</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


A black man who instead of helping elighten society can only help perpetuate its flow down a destructive path. You ought to be proud of yourself and your "POV". You're quite full of yourself to say the least. Get over yourself. If you want to promote racism and hate, it seems like you've found the perfect home in LA.


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## Spartacus Triumvirate (Jan 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jazzy1</b>!
> 
> Again more blathering on by you.


As opposed to your racial musings? So you think you can say you're a black man and you therefore have the right to spout a racist view? Your posts become more and more racist as you go. Apparently were seeing the real truth about you now.


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## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Spartacus Triumvirate</b>!
> 
> 
> A black man who instead of helping elighten society can only help perpetuate its flow down a destructive path. You ought to be proud of yourself and your "POV". You're quite full of yourself to say the least. Get over yourself. If you want to promote racism and hate, it seems like you've found the perfect home in LA.



I have said NOT one hateful word you're questionable to catergorize any statement I said as racists. Pull up the comment where I said something hateful. I have not said one hateful or racist word. 

I have only said that I don't think Kobe can get a fair trial from a small town full of white people, I didn't say anything about those people's mentality, I didn't say they were stupid or racist. 

I said that those people because of their lack of access to black people may carry a bias into that courtroom based on some stereotypes they hold about black people they don't have to be racist to accept certain things about black folks. They made the choice to live in a town that wasn't racially mixed they chose to live in a small community where there's mostly white folks. I wonder why that is maybe because they feel more comfortable around other whites. 

And therefore I feel Kobe might not get a fairshake. 

Get over yourself and your obvious bias. Your hiding behind your own bias claiming objectivity. I notice that you took the old I'll shut down because you know you're boxed in by your bias Spurs Fan. 

We admit that we're his fans here funny how you haven't been here until this hits than come in as if you're only interested in Justice. 

I want none of your justice, because its the same justice that others use to keep other people held back because it used to be ibvious to point out the biased people some wore hoods some spit on people now some hide behind the cloak of the truth and justice, I notice the people who talk of such things are often the ones who don't want people to actually get it. 

Stop hiding in seclusion whats your feeling on this case and claim your bias, I didn't think so. 

I have only stated real world things. 

I don't live in that make believe why can't we all just get along world you live in. It would be nice but other people won't allow that sort of world to exist. 






Please wake up. Don't be scared.


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## Spartacus Triumvirate (Jan 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jazzy1</b>!
> 
> Stop hiding in seclusion whats your feeling on this case and claim your bias, I didn't think so.



What? Stake a claim to the racist point of view such as yourself? No thanks.




> Originally posted by <b>jazzy1</b>!
> 
> I have only stated real world things.


Yes, your own little world indeed.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

I really with this wasn't a black male vs. white female case. This is OJ all over again and no good can come of it.:dead:


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## Spartacus Triumvirate (Jan 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>newmessiah10</b>!
> This is OJ all over again and no good can come of it.:dead:


Agreed 1000%


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## necrospur (Aug 6, 2003)

stop turning this into a race thing


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

I'm not turning this into a race thing, but I have a feeling that is where it is going to go.

I said "No Good Can Come Of It." Meaning I don't want this to happen. But their are people on both sides dividing lines by dare I say "race". 

I said I don't want this to happen, but I am not naive enough not to believe what I MIGHT or CAN happen.


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## IV (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Fork</b>!
> You're grossly overestimating the 'race card' in this case. OJ Simpson, a black man who was clearly guilty of a double murder, was found not guilty thanks to his team of lawyers and his public image. Was that fair? Nope.


If it was clear, he would have been found guilty. Reasonable doubt is what the law states, OJ's team created that for the jury, and that's not good enough. If they can't prove beyond a reasonable doubt he killed them, than you should be angry with the prosecution, not OJ and his team.


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## Coyat (Jun 18, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>newmessiah10</b>!
> I'm not turning this into a race thing, but I have a feeling that is where it is going to go.
> 
> I said "No Good Can Come Of It." Meaning I don't want this to happen. But their are people on both sides dividing lines by dare I say "race".
> ...


I agree, this case could always become a nation-wide race card debate.. I'd hate to see it, I hate to believe it's possible, but that would be naive on my part.


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## Sir Magic Boi (Aug 6, 2003)

*Give up Bean Bryant*

The guy is guilty read it learn it memorize it.


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## Tom (Jul 15, 2002)

Kobe will get a fair trial...more so than the average person.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

Calling individual posters racists will not be tolerated at all. It's one thing to label a city like Eagle or LA as racist but if you make it personal and respond by calling another poster one you will be edited. I don't care if you feel the insult is justified.


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## necrospur (Aug 6, 2003)

so racism is ok here than


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Fork</b>!
> 
> 
> You're grossly overestimating the 'race card' in this case. OJ Simpson, a black man who was clearly guilty of a double murder, was found not guilty thanks to his team of lawyers and his public image. Was that fair? Nope.


What a crock! I'll just quote the Mighty Mos here:

"You can laugh and criticize Michael Jackson if you wanna
Woody Allen, molested and married his step-daughter
Same press kickin dirt on Michael's name
Show Woody and Soon-Yi at the playoff game, holdin hands
Sit back and just bug, think about that
Would he get that type of dap if his name was Woody Black?
O.J. found innocent by a jury of his peers
And they been ****in with that ***** for last five years
Is it fair, is it equal, is it just, is it right?
Do you do the same **** when the defendent face is white?
If white boys doin it, well, it's success
When I start doin, well, it's suspect"


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## steadyeddy (Jan 2, 2003)

It's only human nature that people stick with their own...especially if it's a small, tight group.
Black or White, Kobe is accused of coming into their "family" and assaulting one of their own. The people in this small town are gonna find it very difficult to side with the stranger that came in and supposedly hurt one of their own. I would think it very important to get this trial held in more "neutral" territory.

Forget race....that ALONE is enough reason for a change of venue.


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

Jesus Lord -- I think the *real* mistrial is being overlooked:

_Spartacus v. The State of the Los Angeles Lakers Forum_

It's not even fair how much sense Spartacus is making. No one in this thread has stood the most remote chance of refuting anything he's said.

And I'm finding it hilarious, by the way. :rofl:


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## Cam*Ron (Apr 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>rawse</b>!
> Jesus Lord -- I think the *real* mistrial is being overlooked:
> 
> _Spartacus v. The State of the Los Angeles Lakers Forum_
> ...


EDIT


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rawse</b>!
> Jesus Lord -- I think the *real* mistrial is being overlooked:
> 
> _Spartacus v. The State of the Los Angeles Lakers Forum_
> ...


Do you have something to add besides telling Sparty how great he is?


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Jemel Irief</b>!
> 
> 
> Do you have something to add besides telling Sparty how great he is?


I'm having turkey for lunch. :bsmile:


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## venturalakersfan (Jun 10, 2003)

Anyone accused of a sexual crime in Colorado does not receive a fair trial. The whole system is skewed toward the alleged victim. I have seen someone who shouldn't have been convicted, and even if he had been in any other state would have received probation, convicted and serve 5 years in Colorado. Race has nothing to do with it, it is all about the location. Kobe could not have picked a worse state in the country to get accused in, no matter if he is white, black, or any color in between.


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## RG (Jan 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Jemel Irief</b>!
> 
> 
> What a crock! I'll just quote the Mighty Mos here:
> ...


Talk about playing the "victim" card.


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## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Jemel Irief</b>!
> 
> 
> What a crock! I'll just quote the Mighty Mos here:
> ...


Wow...song lyrics. I guess you must be right then. Everybody knows that rap artists are always right. 

I guess you (and Mos Def) didn't watch any late night TV for the 5 years after Woody Allen married his step daughter. He was the butt of a LOT of jokes. I don't know of a single person, white, black or otherwise, who *supported* what Woody Allen did. It's just as creepy and weird as Michael Jackson. Besides, Woody Allen hasn't been creepy and weird since the one (huge) incident. Michael Jackson is creepy and weird each and every day. 

BTW you and Mos Def comparing a MURDERER to a guy who married his 20 year old stepdaughter is way out of line. You're pretty out of touch with reality if you believe they're the same. Murder is, FYI, considered by most sane/logical people to be the worst crime that a person can commit.


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## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Jemel Irief</b>!
> O.J. found innocent by a jury of his peers
> And they been ****in with that ***** for last five years
> Is it fair, is it equal, is it just, is it right?
> ...


Yeah. If a white guy *clearly* murdered his wife and her friend and got away with it, it would be considered success. Give me a break dude.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

Clearly? The whole point is that he was found not guilty! And nobody compared Woody Allen to a guy found not guilty of being a murder, they compared him to Jackson. Also the success part isn't in reference to OJ either.

I have faith in our judicial system and my peers that hand out the verdicts. Unlike some of my fellow Laker homies here I feel that if the judge doesn't find the jury pool in Eagle tainted than Kobe will get a fair trial there. 

It's the Law enforcement I have beef with.


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## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

> It's the Law enforcement I have beef with.


No argument there. The police like to treat innocent civilians as if they are an occupying force in an enemy territory. It's disgusting and it's everywhere. 

OJ was *clearly* guilty though.


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## antibody (Apr 4, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>venturalakersfan</b>!
> Anyone accused of a sexual crime in Colorado does not receive a fair trial. The whole system is skewed toward the alleged victim. I have seen someone who shouldn't have been convicted, and even if he had been in any other state would have received probation, convicted and serve 5 years in Colorado. Race has nothing to do with it, it is all about the location. Kobe could not have picked a worse state in the country to get accused in, no matter if he is white, black, or any color in between.


And you know this how? What makes you the expert here? This is nothing more than your opinion. Let's just listen to the REAL LAW EXPERTS regarding this subject.


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## IV (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>antibody</b>!
> 
> And you know this how? What makes you the expert here? This is nothing more than your opinion. Let's just listen to the REAL LAW EXPERTS regarding this subject.


if you were blind and I told you the sky was blue you'd argue with me. You know nothing about this guy and yet you discredit his post. You talk more than you understand. Try and take in what people are saying instead of trying to find a way to refute his points. I can back what's he's saying because I have heard attorneys on TV saying the same thing, plus I work in a law office and the Chief has told me the same thing. You need to stop hatin'


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## antibody (Apr 4, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>IV</b>!
> if you were blind and I told you the sky was blue you'd argue with me. You know nothing about this guy and yet you discredit his post. You talk more than you understand. Try and take in what people are saying instead of trying to find a way to refute his points. I can back what's he's saying because I have heard attorneys on TV saying the same thing, plus I work in a law office and the Chief has told me the same thing. You need to stop hatin'


Why don't you get off my back! I can't post anywhere without you responding with some BS. All you do is launch personal attacks trying to pump up your ego or something. Get off the high horse for awhile. I can't stand jokers like you who act like pompous A-holes. I've heard otherwise about Colorado. There are other states with the same ideology as Colorado...I heard this on TV too...so what.


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## IV (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>antibody</b>!
> 
> Why don't you get off my back! I can't post anywhere without you responding with some BS. All you do is launch personal attacks trying to pump up your ego or something. Get off the high horse for awhile. I can't stand jokers like you who act like pompous A-holes. I've heard otherwise about Colorado. There are other states with the same ideology as Colorado...I heard this on TV too...so what.


Instead of rambling could't you have just post a smile? Like this one:


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## antibody (Apr 4, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>IV</b>!
> Instead of rambling could't you have just post a smile? Like this one:


My comments are rambling but your comments are not right? You attack me but I ramble. What big-time JOKE!!! :rocket:


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