# Tribune: TT feeling "groovy"... in the Skiles doghouse?



## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune...lsbits,1,1403009.story?coll=cs-home-headlines




> Tim Thomas sounded like a happier man before the Bulls played the Nets on Saturday night, maybe because he had 15 relatives in the audience or maybe because basketball is going a bit better for him.
> 
> "I'm starting to get back in the groove of things," said Thomas, who grew up in Patterson, N.J.
> 
> ...







that's nice. 

marv and mark jackson on the nets feed last night were suggesting that the bulls coaching staff not exactly thrilled with thomas' practice habits.


----------



## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

*Re: Tribune: TT feeling "groovy"*

Stat of the night? Tim Thomas in 7.9 minutes, had a +/- of 11. Highest on the Bulls thank you very much.


----------



## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

*Re: Tribune: TT feeling "groovy"*

Groove










is in the Heart


----------



## jimmy (Aug 20, 2002)

*Re: Tribune: TT feeling "groovy"*

I've liked what i've seen so far from him in his limited play. The article said he hasn't had a lot of practices due to the trade and injury. If nocioni keeps struggling, TT's minutes will increase.


----------



## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

*Re: Tribune: TT feeling "groovy"*

The fact that he's here for only 1 year is both good and bad. Good because he probably doesn't fit long term, but bad because he probably won't adapt to the Bulls' "culture" for a while. It's too bad, because his versatility could be really valuable. I really like him as a backup SG/SF/PF.


----------



## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

*Re: Tribune: TT feeling "groovy"*



yodurk said:


> The fact that he's here for only 1 year is both good and bad. Good because he probably doesn't fit long term, but bad because he probably won't adapt to the Bulls' "culture" for a while. It's too bad, because his versatility could be really valuable. I really like him as a backup SG/SF/PF.


How many teams and different coaches does Thomas have to play for before he proves to you that he will let you down in the end?


----------



## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

*Re: Tribune: TT feeling "groovy"*

I just want him on the damn court when Deng&Nocioni are stinking it up like they did last night.


----------



## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

*Re: Tribune: TT feeling "groovy"*



Darius Miles Davis said:


> How many teams and different coaches does Thomas have to play for before he proves to you that he will let you down in the end?


Maybe the same number as Chancey Billups. Or Stephan Jackson. Or Brad Miller...

Sometimes guys bounce around before they fins a home. With any luck, maybe something will click here with TT.

Or not...

But its a bit early to be kicking him to the curb.


----------



## Hustle (Dec 17, 2003)

*Re: Tribune: TT feeling "groovy"*



> "Former Knick Tim Thomas, part of the deal that brought Eddy Curry to the Knicks, took an unveiled slap at his former team while praising his current Chicago Bulls teammates. Thomas was asked about how he saw the Knicks fitting in with one of his former coaches, Larry Brown. "I'm not even concerned with that. I'm not there," Thomas said. *"Ask me about my point guards here." OK. How are your point guards in Chicago? "They're great. They pass the ball," Thomas said.* Draw your own conclusion, please." New York Post


 :yes:


----------



## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

*Re: Tribune: TT feeling "groovy"*



TomBoerwinkle#1 said:


> Maybe the same number as Chancey Billups. Or Stephan Jackson. Or Brad Miller...
> 
> Sometimes guys bounce around before they fins a home. With any luck, maybe something will click here with TT.
> 
> ...


I don't think either Billups, Miller, or Jackson was consistantly accused of not giving enough effort to live up to their potential on their previous teams. I just think they hadn't put everything together yet.

No need to kick Thomas to the curb. He's on a team with two small forwards who will probably play more minutes than he does. He'll have an opportunity to contribute to a potentially good team. It's not a bad situation for either the Bulls or Thomas. We just can't get our expectations up.


----------



## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

*Re: Tribune: TT feeling "groovy"*

in the doghouse? so is it groovy mid-century modern or hippie/boho style decor? hmmm.



_
Tim Thomas didn't play against the Spurs. Bulls coach Scott Skiles said he had intended to use Thomas but matchups turned unfavorable for the 6-foot-10-inch forward.

Skiles also said Thomas, acquired in the Eddy Curry trade, still is playing catch-up.

*"We're playing at a level right now, in practice and in the games, that I haven't seen Tim get to yet," Skiles said. "It's pretty much up to Tim."*

Thomas had little to say on the matter.

*"That's his opinion," he said. "I'm ready to play."*
_


tribune


----------



## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

*Re: Tribune: TT feeling "groovy"*



mizenkay said:


> in the doghouse? so is it groovy mid-century modern or hippie/boho style decor? hmmm.
> 
> _
> Tim Thomas didn't play against the Spurs. Bulls coach Scott Skiles said he had intended to use Thomas but matchups turned unfavorable for the 6-foot-10-inch forward.
> ...


um...WOW


----------



## TripleDouble (Jul 26, 2002)

And to think we almost had this guy for the full length of his contract years ago.


----------



## bullsville (Jan 23, 2005)

TripleDouble said:


> And to think we almost had this guy for the full length of his contract years ago.


The horror, dear God the horror!!

For some reason, this made me think "why did TT only sign for 6 years instead of 7"? Rose, Finley, they resigned for 7 years, even TMac and Hill got 7 years as they worked out sign and trades.

So why did TT only sign for 6? I think I'm confused.


----------



## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

The winner of the second annual Eddie Robinson, "those are amazing little recorders", award goes to . . .


----------



## Machinehead (Jun 12, 2002)

I really am intrigued by the idea of using him at the 2 

I see elements of Rashard Lewis in his game . If he bought in and went hard I think he has that kind of upside even still..but he's kind of damaged goods these days

I like Sweetney , Songaila , Nocioni, Thomas and Duhon as a 2nd unit fit


----------



## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

such sweet thunder said:


> The winner of the second annual Eddie Robinson, "those are amazing little recorders", award goes to . . .


I was thinking almost the same thing.


----------



## narek (Jul 29, 2005)

There's some more on this in this morning Sun-Times:



> ''It's just we're playing at a level right now in practice and in the games that I haven't seen Tim get to yet,'' Skiles said. "So it's pretty much up to Tim.
> 
> "There are lots of talents -- working really hard and being committed are two [qualities] of what I think are talented people, too. It's not that Tim hasn't [worked hard]. It's just that there are other guys that are at a level that is very high right now.''
> 
> ...


----------



## Showtyme (Jun 24, 2002)

*Re: Tribune: TT feeling "groovy"*



Darius Miles Davis said:


> How many teams and different coaches does Thomas have to play for before he proves to you that he will let you down in the end?


He'll let you down if you look at him as the next KG, or at least as something like KVH. But if you have only expectations for him to be a hot scorer off the bench with range and length and rebounding at three positions, I don't think you'd be too let down.

Of course, he is being grossly overpaid. But if he does get used to the culture and finds a niche here, I wouldn't mind the Bulls making him a reasonable offer this offseason. We could do a lot worse than a Tim Thomas level talent with a Skiles/Pax jibbyness.


----------



## Wynn (Jun 3, 2002)

Given that Noc and Deng seem to be struggling for whatever reason, I wouldn't mind seeing TT start at the SF position for a few games and see what he's got. If he's dogging it, sub him out and split the rest of the time witht he others. Ideally I'd like to see Deng log the most minutes, but TT provides some options that may help out in our lethargic first quarters.

As for him being here only one season..... he won't cost nearly as muchj after his contract is up, and may be a great $2 million/season type player. If Skiles can remind him that this is his contract year and that likely this will be his last chance at (more) big money, he may just decide he'll hustle.

Then again, he's set for life already, and may not have that kind of desire....


----------



## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

TT is quickly becoming the next EROB.

I remember a time when the Bulls actualy got 30-35 minutes a night out of their highest paid player. Of course, we were a losing team then.

Pax really is not getting a lot of bang for his payroll buck.


----------



## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

> ''It's not like Tim is banished to the bench or in the doghouse or anything like that,'' Skiles said. ''Tim may play a lot [tonight], I don't know.''


..


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

I'm guessing it is taking him awhile to "get" the defensive scheme. Maybe Thomas has a steep learning curve, who knows?


----------



## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

> Skiles also said Thomas, acquired in the Eddy Curry trade, still is playing catch-up.
> 
> "We're playing at a level right now, in practice and in the games, that I haven't seen Tim get to yet," Skiles said. "It's pretty much up to Tim."
> 
> ...


http://chicagosports.chicagotribune...sbits,1,3369092.story?coll=cs-bulls-headlines


----------



## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/dssports/pro/092sd2.htm




_Bulls reserve forward Mike Sweetney has played well in stretches, but the team has an unhappy camper on its hands in forward Tim Thomas.

One day after Thomas was in uniform but did not play in the overtime loss against the San Antonio Spurs Monday night, he made it clear he did not agree with his role and was at a loss to explain it.

*"I'm just ready to play basketball and want to play basketball," said Thomas, who had his share of differences with teammates and opponents alike in the past. "That's it. It's not my decision."*

Asked whether he had ever sat out an entire game in which he was in uniform at any level, Thomas said, "I don't know. It has been a long, long time. Probably never."_


----------



## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

Its a tough position for Skiles to be in, IMO.

Thomas is probably the most talented of our SFs, even more so than Deng, although that's debatable.... but certainly more so than our current starting SF.

But, he only gives 85%. The team is probably better though with TT on the floor.

How can he preach maximum effort to the youngsters while playing TT over Noc, the poster boy for maximum effort?


----------



## Wynn (Jun 3, 2002)

kukoc4ever said:


> Its a tough position for Skiles to be in, IMO.
> 
> Thomas is probably the most talented of our SFs, even more so than Deng, although that's debatable.... but certainly more so than our current starting SF.
> 
> ...


I imagine somewhere down the line there will be a TT and SS meeting of the minds in which Skiles shows some love and Thomas commits to "try harder". At that point, I'd like to see what TT can do, as I described above, in a starting roll. If at that point TT is not giving effort, at least we gave him a shot to show us what he could do.


----------



## jbulls (Aug 31, 2005)

*Re: Tribune: TT feeling "groovy"*



mizenkay said:


> in the doghouse? so is it groovy mid-century modern or hippie/boho style decor? hmmm.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Boy. What's the saying about old dogs and new tricks again?

Skiles is going to have his hands full with Thomas this year, which is really unfortunate because Thomas is a talent who could help us. But will he commit to playing defense and be okay with playing 20 MPG?

I thought the comment about the Knicks point guards was a little odd. Not that Marbury isn't a ball hog, but why not just take the high road? He's going to get nowhere with Skiles griping about PT. We're getting the full Tim Thomas experience here - tantelizing glimpses of potential on the court coupled with idiotic statements and an attitude that can be interpreted as churlish or clueless, depending on how much credit you want to give him.

Thomas is never going to get a mega bucks contract again, he's just not ever going to be the best player on a good team. He's at a career cross roads and you have to hope he has the sense enough to realize it - his ability to buy into the system here and play well is going to determine whether he's an MLE type guy or a taller Ron Mercer. He's not off to a great start so far.


----------



## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/dssports/pro/101sd4.htm




> The victory was overshadowed by the Tim Thomas situation, which remains unresolved.
> 
> *After an earlier meeting with Skiles, during which Thomas was told he lacked intensity, the veteran forward did not play for the second consecutive game.*
> 
> ...


----------



## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

TT will play. Especially the closer we get to trade deadline. He may even help us win some games.


----------



## remlover (Jan 22, 2004)

TT knows what it takes. Hopefully he will do whatever Skiles is asking him. Skiles isnt trying to screw over TT or keep his value down, he obviously feels that he doesnt belong on the court. TT has to know that it's his job for him to adjust to the Bulls style of play, not the other way around if he wants PT.


----------



## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

You know, its funny. When the Curry trade went down I was hopeful about the short term impact of Tim Thomas and considered Sweetney to more or less be a bum. 

Now I find myself always looking forward to Sweetney taking the court and have virtually forgotten that Thomas is even on the team.

These last two games that Thomas got DNP's, I literally didn't notice it until I read about it in the paper the next day. He's already an afterthought to me. I'm not ripping the guy, I'm just saying.

If he does whatever it is that Skiles wants him to do and contributes, that would be great. If not, I'll probably just keep forgetting that he's on the team.


----------



## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

I don't think TT is closing in on the ERobbery situation despite the surface appearances.

With ERobbery, we were losing and we were stuck with him for several years. To me it was pretty hard to justify not playing a guy when the bottom line was that he appeared to help when he was on the court and we were getting our asses handed to us.

With Thomas, it seems hard to say we're missing out on anything by not playing him, and it's not like we have to worry about any long-run effects since he's got an expiring contract.


----------



## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

third consecutive DNP-CD

i was unable to catch the game live last night, but did watch the tape later. had the utah feed (where are you hot rod?) and reports i'm reading are that TT is just sulking on the bench and not even cheering? 

here are some fan comments from after the warriors game courtesy of blog-a-bull (formerly known as bulls blog


----------



## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

I was at the game early yesterday watching the team warm up. Thomas looked like he was in good shape running up and down the sidelines before the game. He was not really talking to anyone though. 

Our team is an attitude driven bunch in many respects. We sure could use his size in tough games, especially in the playoffs. But, its hard to undermine the message Skiles is trying to send by playing TT.


----------



## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

> The 6-foot-10 Thomas appeared to be a suitable match against the Warriors, whose size posed a problem for an undersized Bulls team.
> 
> "Yeah, I thought that, too," Thomas said. "I'm as confused as anybody."


This is something I hear far too often from Bulls doghouse players.

Skiles needs to be clear with his players about what it takes to get in the doghouse and what it takes to get back out of the doghouse.

Otherwise, its just stupid mind games.


----------



## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

I just hope it doesn't get to the point where we have to cut Thomas. I want to keep his expiring contract around.


----------



## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

Darius Miles Davis said:


> I just hope it doesn't get to the point where we have to cut Thomas. I want to keep his expiring contract around.


We have an open roster spot as it is. I can't see any likely scenario where we would have to cut him.


----------



## townknave (Jun 28, 2003)

Take it from a Knick fan, you will get nothing out of Tim Thomas. The guy is downright horrible. He's a pretty good shooter and scorer, but don't expect anything else at all. I've never seen a better athlete be a worse rebounder. Ever. I wish we'd kept Van Horn.


----------



## jbulls (Aug 31, 2005)

TomBoerwinkle#1 said:


> This is something I hear far too often from Bulls doghouse players.
> 
> Skiles needs to be clear with his players about what it takes to get in the doghouse and what it takes to get back out of the doghouse.
> 
> Otherwise, its just stupid mind games.


Is it? The only guy I can think of who related similar sentiments is Eddy Curry. Gordon and Skiles seemed a bit rocky at points last season, but Skiles is his biggest booster this year.

As far as Thomas goes, Skiles seems pretty blunt regarding what it's going to take for him to get on the court talking to reporters, so I have to believe Thomas has some idea. I mean, one day when informed of Skiles' (specific) criticisms Thomas says "that's his opinion". The next day he has "no idea" what he needs to do. Can't have it both ways Tim.


----------



## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

jbulls said:


> As far as Thomas goes, Skiles seems pretty blunt regarding what it's going to take for him to get on the court talking to reporters, so I have to believe Thomas has some idea. I mean, one day when informed of Skiles' (specific) criticisms Thomas says "that's his opinion". The next day he has "no idea" what he needs to do. Can't have it both ways Tim.


Yep. "I'm confused" seems to be Timmy-speak for "I didn't like the answer I got".


----------



## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

Mikedc said:


> Yep. "I'm confused" seems to be Timmy-speak for "I didn't like the answer I got".


Oh, I suspect you're right. My post probably didn't pull off the degree of sarcasm I intended.

While I stand by my comments at face value -- the message must be clear or the doghouse is a waste of time -- I think even the most casual fan knows Skiles lays it on the line. We get the message just watching the news and the post game comments. TT is getting the communication first hand. 

The Gospel According to My Dad:

Thou doesn't haveth to like it. Thou just haseth to do it.

Dad 14:23.


----------



## SausageKingofChicago (Feb 14, 2005)

Sadly I think TT is proving himself to be the Roger Dorn of our roster

I can just say TT showing his contract to Scott Skiles saying ;

_ See ..it says in my contract that I don't have to do any callestetics!_

And then I can see Coach Skiles ripping that contract from his hands and urinating on it while growling :

_ That's what I think of your contract !_


----------



## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

Tim Thomas is E-Rob all over again....... Is it as simple as not playing hard in practice?


----------



## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

If TT didn't get any run in the first half tonight, he never will.


----------



## narek (Jul 29, 2005)

A Thomas story in the Tribune: http://chicagosports.chicagotribune...sside,1,2910324.story?coll=cs-bulls-headlines



> OAKLAND -- Tim Thomas has been a Bull for less than two months but already he is prepared to move on.
> 
> He said Monday he believes the Bulls want to trade him.
> 
> ...


and



> Skiles had little to say on Thomas' progress when asked about it Sunday.
> 
> "I know everybody wants to know about each individual guy, but I'm concerned about the team winning, and at the same time trying to take care of each individual guy," Skiles said.
> 
> ...


----------



## Hustle (Dec 17, 2003)

> "Tim Thomas has been a Bull for less than two months but already he is prepared to move on. He said Monday he believes the Bulls want to trade him. He prefers they do it sooner rather than later." Chicago Tribune
> 
> "It's just a waste of time being here if I'm not going to play and help the team," Thomas said before the Bulls played the Golden State Warriors late Monday night. "On the other hand, it seems like it's a waste of time for the organization. So let's just shake hands and go about it and part ways." Chicago Tribune
> 
> Bulls general manager John Paxson said a trade isn't in the works. "I have not spoken to another team about Tim, or any other player on our roster for that matter, in terms of a trade this early in the season," he said. It may just be a matter of time until the Bulls can unload Thomas, whose services apparently aren't in high demand, with the Bulls or any other NBA teams." Chicago Tribune


Ummm, should we all cry for the 14 million dollar joke.


----------



## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

"We're just five games into the season," Paxson said. "Tim is not acclimated. Scott's playing guys he's more comfortable with.

"Scott's got to play guys who are ready to play. In this league, you're only a sprained ankle away from playing. Tim's been coming to practice and working, and that's a positive." 

Can someone explain why Pax feels the need to publicly step into this dispute?


----------



## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

Mikedc said:


> "We're just five games into the season," Paxson said. "Tim is not acclimated. Scott's playing guys he's more comfortable with.
> 
> "Scott's got to play guys who are ready to play. In this league, you're only a sprained ankle away from playing. Tim's been coming to practice and working, and that's a positive."
> 
> Can someone explain why Pax feels the need to publicly step into this dispute?



Because a player wanting to be traded is more of a GM issue than a coach issue?


----------



## bullsville (Jan 23, 2005)

jnrjr79 said:


> Because a player wanting to be traded is more of a GM issue than a coach issue?


Well, I was thinking "because somebody asked", but I agree that if TT is to be traded it will be Pax doing the deal.


----------



## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

jnrjr79 said:


> Because a player wanting to be traded is more of a GM issue than a coach issue?


But he wasn't addressing the trade demand, he was addressing why Thomas wasn't playing, and telling everyone what Skiles is thinking. Skiles has already addressed that himself a couple of times.

It's also, as far as I can remember, the first time Pax has ever stepped in and said something like this in a situation where a guy wasn't playing. 

Skiles said, pretty bluntly, that Thomas isn't working hard enough.

Pax said "Scott's playing guys he's more comfortable with", within that context, could pretty easily be interpreted as Pax saying the problem is at least partially Skiles' comfort level, not anything Thomas is really doing. Especially since "Tim's been coming to practice and working, and that's a positive".

Given the warp speed at which Skiles perceives slights, and the fact I don't remember Pax rendering opinions about playing time before, it seems to be yet another odd statement.


----------



## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

Mikedc said:


> "We're just five games into the season," Paxson said. "Tim is not acclimated. Scott's playing guys he's more comfortable with.
> 
> "Scott's got to play guys who are ready to play. In this league, you're only a sprained ankle away from playing. Tim's been coming to practice and working, and that's a positive."
> 
> Can someone explain why Pax feels the need to publicly step into this dispute?


Perhaps because he was responding to a direct question about why Skiles isn't playing the $14M man?

I'm guessing he didn't just blurt that info out, unrequested.

I suppose Pax could have just no commented. Instead, I think he gave pretty neutral answers that perhaps we are overanalyzing (who...US, overanalyze? :bsmile


----------



## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

tribune 



> We were so far behind," Bulls coach Scott Skiles said. "The guys who have been playing in front of him didn't play that well [Monday] so I put him out there and gave him a chance."
> 
> 
> He played seven minutes and scored five points in the Bulls' loss.
> ...




amen.


----------



## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

What a difference a year makes.

Last season we had a max contract kind of guy, Cap Space (wears jersey #06), who started for us and provided veteran leadership and filled a real need.

This season we have a max contract kind of guy who gets DNPCDs.

Step backwards.


----------

