# Anyone notice Harrington's recently lack of productivity?



## Tactics (Mar 6, 2003)

http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/question_040309.html 

There is a Q&A about it, I've noticed he hasn't been playing as well and a lot of Pacers fans have been upset about it, but we've been winning and that's all that matters.


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## MillerTime (Jul 6, 2003)

I think it's normal. Every player goes thru the highs and lows. Harrington is stuggling right now but as long as we are winning i don't mind it, because one of these games he will show up, and when we need him, he will score 20. He is realible. I love the guy. 

I hope he just would understand him being on the bench is the best thing for this team. 

I think he'll be alright, though. He has a very bright future ahead of him.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Im not too worried, but I would like him to get around 15 a game consistently instead of getting 20 here and there and then not producing for a week or so at a time.


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## PacersguyUSA (Sep 1, 2002)

Im glad Bender is getting some of his minutes so I get to see him play.


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## pacersrule03 (Jul 23, 2003)

Al has just been in a funk lately. He'll come out soon, don't worry. It was hard for him to adjust to the starting role and then back to the 6th man.


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## RP McMurphy (Jul 17, 2003)

*Al Harrington = Career Role Player*

I have never understood why so many Pacers fans think Al Harrington has such a bright future. Last summer I knew some guys who thought he had more potential than *Ron Artest*! What?!?! It is time for us to wake up and realize that he's not getting much better, that he's very good for a sixth man and that's it, he's an enormously flawed player and that's why he struggles so often.

So do you think Al can one day be an All-Star? Here are the players who have been All-Stars at some point during the past five seasons, and at what age they first put up All-Star quality numbers.

Players who get there after age 24 or 25 are few and far between. Just about *every single one* of these guys was much better at 24 than Al Harrington is now. In other words, it's not looking good for Al Harrington!

Age 21
Shareef Abdur-Rahim, Kobe Bryant, Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett, Allen Iverson, Michael Jordan, Tracy McGrady

Age 22
Elton Brand, Baron Davis, Jason Kidd, Andrei Kirilenko, Jamal Mashburn, Alonzo Mourning, Glenn Robinson, Chris Webber, Yao Ming

Age 23
Vince Carter, Grant Hill, Allan Houston, Karl Malone, Stephon Marbury, Dirk Nowitzki, Jermaine O'Neal, Latrell Sprewell

Age 24
Ray Allen, Ron Artest, Dale Davis, Michael Finley, Steve Francis, Shawn Marion, Antonio McDyess, Reggie Miller, Paul Pierce, , Michael Redd, David Robinson, Peja Stojakovic, Wally Szczerbiak

Age 25
Jamaal Magloire, Kenyon Martin, Brad Miller, Dikembe Mutombo, Jerry Stackhouse, John Stockton, Antoine Walker, Rasheed Wallace

Age 26
Vlade Divac, Gary Payton

Age 27
Sam Cassell, Steve Nash

Age 28
Eddie Jones, Ben Wallace

Age 30
Anthony Mason

Sure there are exceptions, there are always exceptions to every rule, *maybe* Al Harrington is an exception, but the chances are damn slim. The *pattern* says if someone is 24 and isn't playing like an All-Star, he'll almost definitely never be one.

If you think Al Harrington has All-Star potential, he hasn't suffered from *recent* lack of productivity. He's has an unproductive career!


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## PacersguyUSA (Sep 1, 2002)

It was probably the 40 pt game that boosted everyone's hopes, but he still has the unstoppable move (fadaway) going for him.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>PacersguyUSA</b>!
> It was probably the 40 pt game that boosted everyone's hopes, but he still has the unstoppable move (fadaway) going for him.


I've never thought the move was unstoppable. If it was, he would be getting 20 ppg by now.


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## Tactics (Mar 6, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>PacersguyUSA</b>!
> It was probably the 40 pt game that boosted everyone's hopes, but he still has the unstoppable move (fadaway) going for him.


ya know I've never seen that move, simply because I never get to watch the Pacers play since I live in Washington and everytime they're on TV my dad wants to watch golf!:upset:


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## PacersguyUSA (Sep 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>R-Star</b>!
> 
> 
> I've never thought the move was unstoppable. If it was, he would be getting 20 ppg by now.


Unstoppable once he get the ball but he can be prevented from receiving the ball. I guess a double team might stop it though after further thinking about it.


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

*Re: Al Harrington = Career Role Player*



> Originally posted by <b>ArtestFan</b>!
> I have never understood why so many Pacers fans think Al Harrington has such a bright future. Last summer I knew some guys who thought he had more potential than *Ron Artest*! What?!?! It is time for us to wake up and realize that he's not getting much better, that he's very good for a sixth man and that's it, he's an enormously flawed player and that's why he struggles so often.


I believe that Harrington has more potential than Artest, simply put, Artest has less to improve on, he is already an all-star, i don't think he'll ever in his career he'll average more than 20/6/4/3 let alone being an All-Star starter. What i'm saying is that Artest is better than Harrington right now, so Al has more he can improve on. I don't think Al will ever be as good Artest but he may very well become an All-Star.



> I've never thought the move was unstoppable. If it was, he would be getting 20 ppg by now.


The move is unstoppable, i don't think even the best of defenders can stop it, it's that he doesn't hit it all the time, he has the move down perfectly, but if only he could perfect it so it went in more. There is really nothing defenders can do against that move.

I just realized that i'm arguing with 2 of the most intelligent and respected posters on this board, uh-oh:uhoh:


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## Tactics (Mar 6, 2003)

*Re: Re: Al Harrington = Career Role Player*



> Originally posted by <b>Pacers Fan</b>!
> 
> 
> I believe that Harrington has more potential than Artest, simply put, Artest has less to improve on, he is already an all-star, i don't think he'll ever in his career he'll average more than 20/6/4/3 let alone being an All-Star starter. What i'm saying is that Artest is better than Harrington right now, so Al has more he can improve on. I don't think Al will ever be as good Artest but he may very well become an All-Star.
> ...


I believe Harrington has a ton of potential, I personally don;t think he'll ever reach it though, if he could develop more of an inside outside game he would be a nasty threat since he plays SF sometimes. Fadeaways are unstoppable if you're 6'9'', so if he masters it then it would be really hard to stop.


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Al Harrington = Career Role Player*



> Originally posted by <b>TicN9neZ8</b>!
> 
> 
> I believe Harrington has a ton of potential, I personally don;t think he'll ever reach it though, if he could develop more of an inside outside game he would be a nasty threat since he plays SF sometimes. Fadeaways are unstoppable if you're 6'9'', so if he masters it then it would be really hard to stop.


An outside game might be a little tough for him, i mean he's 254 pounds. He can hit the occasional 3, but is nowhere near a threat from downtown.


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## Tactics (Mar 6, 2003)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Al Harrington = Career Role Player*



> Originally posted by <b>Pacers Fan</b>!
> 
> 
> An outside game might be a little tough for him, i mean he's 254 pounds. He can hit the occasional 3, but is nowhere near a threat from downtown.


that's true, he just needs to refine his shooting touch so he can hit it when he has the oppurtunity, I haven't really watched Harrington much, can he hit lets say from the 15-20 foot range consistently?


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Al Harrington = Career Role Player*



> Originally posted by <b>TicN9neZ8</b>!
> 
> 
> that's true, he just needs to refine his shooting touch so he can hit it when he has the oppurtunity, I haven't really watched Harrington much, can he hit lets say from the 15-20 foot range consistently?


No, he can hit it sometimes but not consitantly. Honestly besides his turnaround which itself isn't too consistant, Harrington isn't a very consistant player, when he's hot he's hot, and when he's not he's really not.:sigh:


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## MillerTime (Jul 6, 2003)

ArtestFan, that was the most pointless arguement i'v ever seen in my life.

First off all, Harrington, unlike many of those players mentioned, was brought up the hard way. Sitting on the bench because he came to Indiana very young and while we were good. If he played since day 1, he would have developed much quicker.

Second off all, he got a real big injury in Boston when he was breaking out. He was real close to becoming a real force and had a long string of solid games but got hurt. 

Third off all, he needs to compete with Ron Artest and Jermaine O'Neal for playing time and that is hard. 

Even as he is stuggling this season, which is from many reasons (from the injury and disappointed from not getting a starting spot) but still is averaging 12.9ppg and 6.4rpg which is SOLID. 

Will he be a GREAT player? I don't know. But if anything is ready to write off Harrington right now, doesn't watch Pacers games or doesn't know much about basketball. He will be a solid player.


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## Grangerx33 (Mar 9, 2004)

i dont agree with that, he has shown the potential to b a star but i dont think it will b on the pacers, i think if he leaves(which i hope he doesnt) but if he goes to like the clippers i can see him being a star,hes a good all around player and could help a team liek the clippers( if they can b helped period)


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## PacersguyUSA (Sep 1, 2002)

On a side note, I think Harrinton is the Antwan Jamison of the east. Anybody else see the similarity?


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>PacersguyUSA</b>!
> On a side note, I think Harrinton is the Antwan Jamison of the east. Anybody else see the similarity?


Yes on the offensive end, although i'm not too fond of Jamison. On defense they are entirely different though, Harrington is a so much better at defense than Jamison.


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## RP McMurphy (Jul 17, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>MillerTime</b>!
> ArtestFan, that was the most pointless arguement i'v ever seen in my life.
> 
> First off all, Harrington, unlike many of those players mentioned, was brought up the hard way. Sitting on the bench because he came to Indiana very young and while we were good. If he played since day 1, he would have developed much quicker.
> ...


What a ludicrous bunch of excuses. You're telling me that the reason Al Harrington hasn't become a star yet is that he can't get playing time behind Ron Artest and Jermaine O'Neal?

If Al Harrington were good enough to be a star right now, wouldn't we be starting him at power forward and Jermaine O'Neal at center? Of course we would. No one is forcing Rick Carlisle to put Jeff Foster in the starting lineup, he's there *BECAUSE HE BRINGS MORE TO THE TABLE AS A STARTER THAN AL HARRINGTON DOES*.

Do you think none of the other players on that list ever got injured? Do you think none of the other players on that list had to beat out other guys for playing time? Of course they did. If they played from Day 1, for the most part it was *BECAUSE THEY WERE BETTER THAN AL HARRINGTON FROM DAY ONE*. Read that again. The guys who became stars in this league were better than Al Harrington from Day 1. So why do you think Al Harrington can be a star again?

Also, you act like he's getting 13 points per game with no minutes. Al Harrington is averaging the third most minutes on the team, more minutes than three of our starters. It's not like he can't get off the bench. And he's STILL only putting up 13 points per game, which is solid, yes, solid *for a sixth man*, but are those All-Star numbers? Only if the NBA decides to create a new All-Star game just for 6th men.

I mean, it's not like we've never seen this before. Most fans are homers, most fans consistently make excuses for their young players who can't get into the starting lineup because they aren't *good* enough to get into the starting lineup. But my list is pretty solid proff that these fans are almost always completely wrong. Why don't you find me some other examples of players who were still coming off the bench at age 24 but who later emerged as stars?


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## MillerTime (Jul 6, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>ArtestFan</b>!
> 
> 
> What a ludicrous bunch of excuses. You're telling me that the reason Al Harrington hasn't become a star yet is that he can't get playing time behind Ron Artest and Jermaine O'Neal?


He won't be the best play in NBA history man. I don't think he will ever be better then Ron Artest even. I think Harrington will be a good enough player to start. And will be a good enough player that if we decide to deal him, we will get tons in return.



> If Al Harrington were good enough to be a star right now, wouldn't we be starting him at power forward and Jermaine O'Neal at center? Of course we would. No one is forcing Rick Carlisle to put Jeff Foster in the starting lineup, he's there *BECAUSE HE BRINGS MORE TO THE TABLE AS A STARTER THAN AL HARRINGTON DOES*.


Says who? And who says Harrington is ready to start? I don't even think Harrington is 100% yet. Jeff Foster is starting for a reason, A.) For his rebounding, B.) For his defense and C.) He always trys and never gives up. And Carlisle loves that. I think next season is the season where we see if Harrington will turn out to his hype or be what ArtestFan is referring to.



> Also, you act like he's getting 13 points per game with no minutes. Al Harrington is averaging the third most minutes on the team, more minutes than three of our starters. It's not like he can't get off the bench. And he's STILL only putting up 13 points per game, which is solid, yes, solid *for a sixth man*, but are those All-Star numbers? Only if the NBA decides to create a new All-Star game just for 6th men.


Jalen Rose won the 6th man of the year for Indiana in 1998 and yet soon there after he was playing in the All-Star Game and one of the major reasons why we went to the finals in 2000. I wonder were you saying the same things about Rose when he was the 6th man?



> I mean, it's not like we've never seen this before. Most fans are homers, most fans consistently make excuses for their young players who can't get into the starting lineup because they aren't *good* enough to get into the starting lineup. But my list is pretty solid proff that these fans are almost always completely wrong. Why don't you find me some other examples of players who were still coming off the bench at age 24 but who later emerged as stars?


So, i'm a homer and many other fans are too, but you're the genius right? Umm riiiiiiiiiight  

I am too tired to go look stupid stuff for you right now, because it doesn't matter. Some players are late bloomers and some are awsome from their rookie season. 

He will be more then a "ROLE PLAYER" but he may never reach stardom. But he won't be a useless bust that's for sure.

Ps. I see you returned. I thought you wern't gonna come back to the Pacers forum since that kid got banned? Anyways, hope you stay here, but if not, then oh well, no biggie.


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## RP McMurphy (Jul 17, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>MillerTime</b>!
> I think next season is the season where we see if Harrington will turn out to his hype or be what ArtestFan is referring to.


That's not good enough, because people have been saying "next season will be the season" for Al Harrington for a couple of years now. If he has another 13 and 6 year as our 6th Man, I'm sure people will continue to make excuses for him the way you are making excuses for him right now.



> Jalen Rose won the 6th man of the year for Indiana in 1998 and yet soon there after he was playing in the All-Star Game and one of the major reasons why we went to the finals in 2000. I wonder were you saying the same things about Rose when he was the 6th man?


I just checked NBA.com and Jalen Rose never played in the All-Star Game, so if I would have been saying the same things about him at the time, I would have been right. Yeah, he was just a role player for us, he wasn't even one of our two best players. The Bulls *tried* to make him a star, and he just wasn't good enough. He put up some good numbers for them, sure, but if your team is terrible, *someone* has to take your shots. Guys like Antawn Jamison and Orlando Woolridge and Armon Gilliam have put up great numbers on horrible teams, but they weren't stars by any means.



> So, i'm a homer and many other fans are too, but you're the genius right? Umm riiiiiiiiiight
> 
> I am too tired to go look stupid stuff for you right now, because it doesn't matter. Some players are late bloomers and some are awsome from their rookie season.


I don't claim to be a genius, but yeah, I think that when I go through the past five years of All-Stars looking for players who are comparable to Al Harrington and you're too lazy to even find one example of a player who came off the bench for this many years of his career and became a star later, I think I have more credibility than you do.



> Ps. I see you returned. I thought you wern't gonna come back to the Pacers forum since that kid got banned? Anyways, hope you stay here, but if not, then oh well, no biggie.


Hehe. Yeah, Roby G.'s posts were the best, but he told me he wasn't posting anywhere anymore, I think he's moved on from this stuff. 

I left because I was really annoyed at that one mod but it turns out the RealGM mods are much, much worse, they insult you and threaten to ban you just for saying bad things about a team on that team's board. I've been back posting on the BBB general board for quite awhile now.


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## MillerTime (Jul 6, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>ArtestFan</b>!I just checked NBA.com and Jalen Rose never played in the All-Star Game, so if I would have been saying the same things about him at the time, I would have been right. Yeah, he was just a role player for us, he wasn't even one of our two best players. The Bulls *tried* to make him a star, and he just wasn't good enough. He put up some good numbers for them, sure, but if your team is terrible, *someone* has to take your shots. Guys like Antawn Jamison and Orlando Woolridge and Armon Gilliam have put up great numbers on horrible teams, but they weren't stars by any means.


Opps, my bad on Rose. I thought he did make the All-Star team with Reggie, i guess not then. If Harrington turns into the player Rose was in 2000, i would be VERY happy though.



> I don't claim to be a genius, but yeah, I think that when I go through the past five years of All-Stars looking for players who are comparable to Al Harrington and you're too lazy to even find one example of a player who came off the bench for this many years of his career and became a star later, I think I have more credibility than you do.


More like, it was late and i wanted to get to bed. You have more credibility then me? Yeah OK buddy, i see someone's ego is way high.......



> I left because I was really annoyed at that one mod but it turns out the RealGM mods are much, much worse, they insult you and threaten to ban you just for saying bad things about a team on that team's board. I've been back posting on the BBB general board for quite awhile now.


lol. Well welcome back then. I did see you post some on the general forum once in a while but this was the first time i saw you post on the Pacers forum ever since that guy got banned. Nice having you back.


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## PacersguyUSA (Sep 1, 2002)

> Guys like *Antawn Jamison* and Orlando Woolridge and Armon Gilliam have put up great numbers on horrible teams,


I'd be willing to bet so much that Antwan Jamison would have been an all-star in the east. Hell, Harrington is better than Magloire, but he just doesn't play that position.


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