# Felton or Jack?



## BallStateCards (Oct 14, 2004)

Well, we're all pretty much resigned to the fact that the Lakers probably won't make the playoffs. Our two largest needs are a consistent inside force and a somewhat competent point guard. Getting a consistent inside guy in the draft is very difficult. However, two of the best point guards should be around by the time our pick comes up.

So who do you take? Raymond Felton of the North Carolina Tarheels or Jarrett Jack of the Georgia Tech Yellow Jackets? Someone else?

I'll post my thoughts a little bit later.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

Someone else: Chris Paul or Salim Stoudamire


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## Kneejoh (Dec 21, 2004)

I voted for Jack but I wouldn't mind getting Salim or Paul.


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## BallStateCards (Oct 14, 2004)

I don't think Paul will be there around our pick, and trading makes more sense for Salim, he'll still be there in the late part of the first round.


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## Brian34Cook (Mar 26, 2003)

Deron Williams.. no silly me..

Felton who everyone wants is sucking big nuts tonight going 0-6 early vs 'Nova :rofl:


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## Locke (Jun 16, 2003)

I don't really have much of a preference between either of these two guys. I'd take either one and be happy. But if I had to make the choice I guess I'd take Jack.


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## daniel80111 (Dec 29, 2004)

Jack, he wins with crappy players. Plays crazy physical defense and just looks mean and intense out there. Felton is great but isn't as clutch and sometimes is wild as hell dribbling the ball. Plus, Kobe would love that guy, haha.


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## SoCalfan21 (Jul 19, 2004)

stoudimire or Jack


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

I love Jack more than any guard in the draft outside of Paul. Paul won't go beyond pick #3. 

Salim is nothing more than an Atkins clone. Would be a total waste of a pick.

I hope we don't take a forward with the lottery pick.


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## JerryWest (Jun 24, 2002)

Felton, Felton, Felton.

You don't know how someone's offensive game will translate in the NBA completely. You do know about defensive tenacity and speed however, and Felton has both. He mans the guy he guards very well and always sticks on him. Good one on one defender, and he also plays good d on his man to prevent passes into the guy he is guarding.

Our defense is what need works and Felton will be huge improvement because he can slow down the quick point guards in the NBA. Something the Lakers have needed for years. Offensively, even if he isn't a good shooter he can penetrate and break down a defense for a layup for a entry pass.


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## JerryWest (Jun 24, 2002)

I wouldn't mind Jack if we can't get felton, however we do not need any pg who can't play D, we already have two of those: Atkins and Sasha.


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## spiraling (Feb 16, 2003)

Take Jack if he is still avaible, if not take Daniel Ewing.


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## JerryWest (Jun 24, 2002)

Daniel Ewing I like as well, very good defensive perimeter player


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## daniel80111 (Dec 29, 2004)

Best thing about Jack is that he's a 6 foot 3 200 pound point guard that is pretty quick...he's huge...ala Chauncey Billups, and we all know how thats working out.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

Give me Felton. He is a guy who will actually control tempo, bring intensity on both ends, and make crisp clean passes while creating for guys. Athletic too, the kid is going to be a player. I think he is going to be a stronger version of the player TJ Ford was (sad saying was). Felton is lightning quick up and down the floor, and knows exactly what he is doing with the rock. Not much of a shot, but Atkins could provide shooting at backup point.


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

Felton, for reasons already mentioned. That said, I wouldn't exactly be disappointed if the Lakers picked Jack. Quite frankly, I'd be just about as pleased. Good problem to have if the Lakers are struggling between Felton and Jack.


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## Bartholomew Hunt (Mar 4, 2003)

It would help if we had a list of the lottery teams that need PGs..


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## BallStateCards (Oct 14, 2004)

-D! said:


> It would help if we had a list of the lottery teams that need PGs..


*Eastern Conference*

Orlando Magic - Jameer Nelson and Steve Francis

New Jersey Nets - Travis Best, Jason Kidd, and Jacque Vaughn

New York Knicks - Stephon Marbury and Jamal Crawford

Toronto Raptors - I have no idea what they need...

Milwaukee Bucks - TJ Ford, Erick Strickland, and Mo Williams

Charlotte Bobcats - Cory Alexander, Jason Hart, and Brevin Knight

Atlanta Hawks - Tony Delk, Royal Ivey, and Tyronn Lue

*Western Conference*

Minnestota Timberwolves - Anthony Carter, Sam Cassell, and Troy Hudson

LA Clippers - Rick Brunson, Lionel Chalmers, Marko Jaric, and Shaun Livingston

Golden State - Baron Davis and Derek Fisher

Portland Trailblazers - Damon Stoudamire, Sebastian Telfair, and Nick Van Exel

Utah Jazz - Howard Eisley, Randy Livingston, Raul Lopez, and Keith McLeod

New Orleans Hornets - Speedy Claxton and Dan Dickau


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## Locke (Jun 16, 2003)

ClayVTrainum said:


> *Eastern Conference*
> 
> Orlando Magic - Jameer Nelson and Steve Francis
> 
> ...


This may be biased coming from a Lakers fan, but I don't think there's a PG rotation in the league worse than Chucky Atkins and Tierre Brown -- and that goes for playoff and lottery teams alike. But even teams appearing to be steady at the 1 spot that pick ahead of us may have their reasons for wanting another PG. They may have plans to trade their current PG and go with the new drafted one, or the PG they currently have may be a free agent soon, etc, you never know.

Having said that though,

Orlando Magic - They just got Nelson and have began starting him. Can't see them drafting another point this year.

New Jersey Nets - Preparing for the possibility of losing Jason Kidd, they may be interested.

New York Knicks - You never know what these guys. If they have plans on trading Marbury then it's a possibility.

Toronto Raptors - Will certainly shop Skip around this off-season and may be interested in drafting his replacement.

Milwaukee Bucks - Since TJ may never play again, the Bucks may want to look at another PG.

Charlotte Bobcats - Brevin Knight has played well enought to warrant MLE offers from teams. He'll probably bolt from the Cats. Since the Cats will have either the 1st, 2nd or 3rd pick it'll either be Bogut, Williams or Paul for them.

Atlanta Hawks - A PG rotation almost as bad as ours. But this team will most likely end up with the first pick and they won't take a PG with it. If they don't though they'll probably take the best player available because their whole team sucks.

*Western Conference*

Minnestota Timberwolves - Tough call here. They've had a terrible season, and Sam Cassell could be attractive both as a player and as an ending contract. They're probably stuck with Troy Hudson though. I doubt they go after a point guard.

LA Clippers - Almost no chance they'll take another PG with Livingston waiting to become the starter next year. Although the Clippers have done stranger things...

Golden State - They need size, not another guard. They're already paying out big bucks to Baron and Fisher.

Portland Trailblazers - Took Telfair last year and will want to give him a chance before drafting another point.

Utah Jazz - Will probably have the top PGs on their radar unless there's on in free agency they plan to throw a bunch of money at. I'm sure they want Bogut, but they won't be the odds on favorites for the #1 pick and will likely miss out on him.

New Orleans Hornets - Need help at the one, but this is another team highly likely to get the first pick and will probably take Marvin Williams or Andrew Bogut.

So by my estimation, teams that will probably be considering point guards are:

Raptors
Bucks
Bobcats
Hawks
Jazz
Hornets

All of those teams should end up with worse records than the Lakers, and if the odds play out, will pick before them. 3 out of those 6 will probably take Bogut, Williams and Paul. At least another two will take Euro stiffs like Splitter, Andriukevici.... or whatever the hell his name is, which should leave the Lakers with realistic chances at Felton and Jack. *Hopefully* But if none of the teams that need PGs land in the first 2 or 3 slots we may be screwed.


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## Pinball (Aug 3, 2002)

spiraling said:


> Take Jack if he is still avaible, if not take Daniel Ewing.


I disagree. I feel that taking Ewing with a lottery pick would be an absolute waste. He has Joe Forte written all over him. Personally, think that Felton, Paul, Williams, and Jack are the only starting quality PGs in this draft. I'd be shocked if anyone else emerges as a starter in the NBA.


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## Pinball (Aug 3, 2002)

Sir Patchwork said:


> Give me Felton. He is a guy who will actually control tempo, bring intensity on both ends, and make crisp clean passes while creating for guys. Athletic too, the kid is going to be a player. I think he is going to be a stronger version of the player TJ Ford was (sad saying was). Felton is lightning quick up and down the floor, and knows exactly what he is doing with the rock. Not much of a shot, but Atkins could provide shooting at backup point.


I wasn't impressed with Felton at all last night but you can't judge a player based on one game. On offense, he seems to be a very streaky shooter. I don't know if he has NBA range from deep. It was tough to get a gauge on that yesterday. He's a very good ballhandler and has excellent quickness and strength but I wish he'd use that quickness more often to take his defender off the dribble. He rarely, if ever, drove the ball to the hoop yesterday and seemed content to just dump the ball into May or give it to McCants to jack up a jumper. I want to see him aggressively take the ball to the hoop next game.

On defense, looks like he has great potential. He hounds the ball as soon as the opposing PG crosses the half-court. He can get away with this because of his excellent quickness. That aspect of his game would be a welcomed addition to the Lakers, who never press the ball. He seems to be a bit lazy at chasing players and rotating, though, which is why Villanova's perimeter players were getting all kinds of open looks in the first half. I have yet to see Williams play significant minutes so I'll hold off on evaluating him.


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## JerryWest (Jun 24, 2002)

Felton can't make long distance shots if someone is on him, but if he gets the ball and is wide open he will usually drain the shot.

As for driving, that is one of the critiques on him. He plays as a distributor on offense, that's just the way he is. He only takes it to the basket himself if other team mates shots are really off and UNC needs a score badly.

If you want a shooter he is not your man.
What he can do is play great on the ball D, find the open man in transition or half court, and push the ball up the court before opposing D's can adjust for fast breaks.


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## JerryWest (Jun 24, 2002)

One of the reasons I personally want him on the Lakers is his lack of range. The guy isn't going to jack up 3's because he knows his limitations. With him on the team, the offense will be more oriented toward fast breaks, diriving to the basket, and post ups. We will see less of the merry go round at the 3 point line and long distance jumpers.


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## Wilt_The_Stilt (Jun 7, 2002)

I still want Shelden Williams in the 1st. Awesome shot-blocker and rebounder, very solid low post defender. His offense is still reliant on overpowering defenders, but I think he could be a Corliss Williamson type offensive player.

Here are his stats compared to Boozer and Brand in their final years at Duke.

Williams
15.5ppg
11.2rpg
3.7bpg
58%fg

Boozer
18.2ppg
8.7rpg
0.6bpg
66.5fg%

Brand
17.7ppg
9.8rpg
2.2bpg
62%fg

Not that it is a guarantee that Williams will be a great pro, but he gets more rebounds and blocks than both of them. Offense as stated above is a notch below, but I don't think it's anything to get too worried about.

2nd round we should take Ewing, Hodge, or Robinson.

There is a much better chance of getting a decent point through FA/trade/2nd round than there is of getting a big.


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## Kaas (Apr 8, 2003)

I agree with BCook, Deron Williams is a better pick than either Felton or Jack. He's the best defender of the 3. Felton's game is overrated since he's a flashy pure PG. Deron is pretty much an equivalent facilitator and he can also play well without the ball, as seen this year where he's played alongside 2 other solid ball-handling guards.


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## Brian34Cook (Mar 26, 2003)

Man.. Deron was so clutch tonight and shut down SALIM STOUDAMIRE.. WOW!!


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## Kaas (Apr 8, 2003)

yea, Salim was like 2-14 from the field. Ridiculous. And Deron's clutch 3 to send the game to OT was also just insane.


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## Drewbs (Feb 16, 2004)

Felton is a better player than Jack, but for waht the Lakers need, Jack is just as good. Felton has that potential to be one of hte elite PGs int he league with his playmaking and ability to control the game. The Lakers really just need a guy who is competant, smart, but most of all... play good defense. Jack plays great defense, Felton plays great defense, so really, if the Lakers draft Jack, its been a good draft. If they draft Felton, its been a great draft.


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## Locke (Jun 16, 2003)

Brian34Cook said:


> Man.. Deron was so clutch tonight and shut down SALIM STOUDAMIRE.. WOW!!


Williams single-handedly boosted his own draft stock and lowered Stoudamire's in one fell swoop in this game.


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## DaBruins (Jul 30, 2003)

Locke said:


> Williams single-handedly boosted his own draft stock and lowered Stoudamire's in one fell swoop in this game.


salim has no draft stock. He'll be lucky to be picked in the 1st, hes got no defense and has poor handles. There is no way he can be a successful lead guard in the nba. We'll see if he can handle being an off-guard. If anything i see being a poor version of Cuttino Mobley with better shooting as the ceiling you can expect from Salim. Salim has a better shot than Mobley but at his height, he wont be able to get it off as comfortably so it allows you to make the comparison with a worse but good shooter.


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## BallStateCards (Oct 14, 2004)

DaBruins said:


> salim has no draft stock. He'll be lucky to be picked in the 1st, hes got no defense and has poor handles. There is no way he can be a successful lead guard in the nba. We'll see if he can handle being an off-guard. If anything i see being a poor version of Cuttino Mobley with better shooting as the ceiling you can expect from Salim. Salim has a better shot than Mobley but at his height, he wont be able to get it off as comfortably so it allows you to make the comparison with a worse but good shooter.


He's a 6'1" pure shooter who was lights out in college. AJ Guyton anyone?


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## JerryWest (Jun 24, 2002)

There is no way williams ends up a better defender then Felton or Jack in the NBA, the guy is slow as a turtle as far as PG go. Tony Parker and Bibby will be scoring 35 points a night against him. I'm not hating on Williams, but shutting down Salim whose strong suit is his jump shot is a lot different then shutting down the lightning quick PG in the NBA who go straight to the hoop.


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## BallStateCards (Oct 14, 2004)

Now I'm kind of stuck. I was going to give this long drawn out reason as to why I think Jarrett Jack will be good. All these posts about Felton are starting to change my mind. Either way, I really don't think Williams will translate into the NBA as well as the other two.


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## Pinball (Aug 3, 2002)

ClayVTrainum said:


> Now I'm kind of stuck. I was going to give this long drawn out reason as to why I think Jarrett Jack will be good. All these posts about Felton are starting to change my mind. Either way, I really don't think Williams will translate into the NBA as well as the other two.


I have yet to see Williams play so it's probably not fair for me to judge him. Based on everything I've heard about him, he sounds like an Andre Miller-type player. Very good passer, ball handler, and shooter. Good body and strength. Quickness seems to be a concern, though. I think he'll end up being the best offensive player of the bunch. Jack will probably end up being the best defender of the bunch. Felton might have the best combination of both, and thus, the most upside.


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## SoCalfan21 (Jul 19, 2004)

i changed my mind...felton


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## underhill_101 (Feb 22, 2005)

i would take felton


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## Brian34Cook (Mar 26, 2003)

Dont tell me your basing Felton's FT's today to your decisions.. :laugh:


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

ClayVTrainum said:


> *Eastern Conference*
> 
> Orlando Magic - Jameer Nelson and Steve Francis
> 
> ...


Of those teams, the following would not take PGs...

Clippers: they just drafted Livingston
Trailblazers: they just drafted Telfair
Golden State: they have Davis and Fisher
Timberwolves: they have Cassell and even if he is traded, they have Hudson
Bucks: they are very high on Mo Williams
Knicks: they have Marbury and Crawford
Nets: they have Jason Kidd
Magic: they have Francis and Nelson

That leaves the Hawks, Raptors, Jazz, Hornets and Bobcats. The Bobcats, Hawks and Hornets will VERY likely have picks in the top 5 and assuming that Chris Paul doesn't declare, they won't take another PG with a pick that high. That leaves only the Jazz and Raptors as possible teams who would take a PG, so we'll have a chance to take either Raymond Felton, Jarrett Jack or Deron Williams.


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

ClayVTrainum said:


> *Eastern Conference*
> Toronto Raptors - I have no idea what they need...


I'm pretty confident that the Raptors will draft a swingman, and a point guard. Most likely the point guard with Philly's pick.


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## jokeaward (May 22, 2003)

T-Wolves are in the defensive PG market, too. Hudson can't defend or hit shots.


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## luizmelo (Sep 18, 2003)

EHL said:


> Felton, for reasons already mentioned. That said, I wouldn't exactly be disappointed if the Lakers picked Jack. Quite frankly, I'd be just about as pleased. Good problem to have if the Lakers are struggling between Felton and Jack.


I agree. Both players will be a better starting pg than Atkins...


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## SoCalfan21 (Jul 19, 2004)

luizmelo said:


> I agree. Both players will be a better starting pg than Atkins...


yeah and felton is a proven leader on UNC the way they almost collapsed when they played villanova when he fouled out...they need a guy like that


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## HallOfFamer (May 26, 2003)

Quick question, If we draft a PG, was the Vujacic pick wasted? Hes just gonna ride the bench til the end of his contract? I think Mitch is gonna go for a big man.


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## compsciguy78 (Dec 16, 2002)

http://www.basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?t=152923

here is a thread in the nba draft forum on felton vs paul

Most people like Felton. But they also like Deron Williams. I would take those two Felton and Williams. I have seen Jack play a few times and he doesn't seem like a true PG.


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

HallOfFamer said:


> Quick question, If we draft a PG, was the Vujacic pick wasted? Hes just gonna ride the bench til the end of his contract? I think Mitch is gonna go for a big man.


Not necessarily. Sasha could be the 3rd PG/2nd SG in the rotation.

He's still raw. Lots of time for him.


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## Bartholomew Hunt (Mar 4, 2003)

I'm not sure is Sasha will ever become the defender necessary to be a mainstay at PG. Mitch better not waste a pick on a stiff to justify last summer's pick of Vujacic.


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## Locke (Jun 16, 2003)

-D! said:


> Mitch better not waste a pick on a stiff to justify last summer's pick of Vujacic.


That's what I'm afraid of.


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## Tyrellaphonte (Feb 21, 2004)

felton


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