# Oh Kobe,this needs to be said



## beautifulkobe (Jun 24, 2002)

Yes Im a girl first of all and yes I love the lakers and think kobe is a psyco player.Hes not a normal.Im not kissing kobes but or being bias.This is what I think is wrong with this picture
Anyways......
I just was browsing through this board and did any of you notice the majority of this board is about kobe.The majority of this board hates kobe and so does his hometown philadelphia but what does that do.Nothing.All you guys get to do is vent your hatred towards him or boo.
1.Great bla blah he has Shaq thats why hes won.Well did shaq win with penny? or any other player until the evil(kobe) matured and came to the lakers.No.So you can say the same thing about Shaq.He needs to prove he could win without kobe too.

2.The person who said kobe was unhappy about charlotte and got himself traded or whatever.Thats bull.Jerry West traded him for vladie Divac(ironic isnt it).What was Jerry thinking trading a great center for a highschool rookie?What an idiot.I bet he regrets that

 

3.I really dont understand why and I dont care why all you guys hate kobe or give him his due.It doesnt change a thing.He still will get better every year.He still will be with Shaq and they probably will continue to be unbeatable together.He still will be compared to jordan constantly and the media will still adore him.He wants to be the best player as kobe not jordan.He didnt even like jordan.Magic is his idol.

4.The funny thing is GMs,coaches and analysists,legends rate kobe as the best player in the nba behind Shaq and compare him to MJ.Phil Jackson recently said kobe has a chance to be better then Michael.
But you guys think Tracy mgrady is better or paul pierce.Its funny that your the only fans/non fans who think that.
If tracy or paul is better then kobe why arent coaches and legends praising tracy or paul and ranking them number 1 or 2.If they think they so great.


5.Why if anyone could play with Shaq and win as you say.Why dont they trade kobe and get another shooting guard?Hmm I really wonder about that.Dont you?


6.THE EXPERTS OF THE NBA SURE DONT THINK HES OVERRATED AND SURE DONT THINK TRACY OR VINCE OR PAUL IS BETTER THEN HIM.
I know I wont change your opinions of him.
But really admit it if Kobe was on your team you would love him cause he kills your teams in the 4th quarter and he has some talent right?Hes also MR.Clutch.

7.The Tracy thing.Ya whatever hes good and has got skill.Its funny how noone praises him or puts him on every cover and calls him the next jordan or compares him to any greats.Is he mr clutch no.Has he won three championships.NO.Who cares if he has Shaq or not.Jason kidd didnt have Shaq or a big center and look what he did.Kidd is better then tmac for what he did.Kidd didnt have two superstars.Allen iverson look what he did without Shaq.Tracy is not that good when you look at what kidd did or iverson.If tracys better then them why didnt he bring his team to the finals?


In Conclusion um the lakers need kobe to win games as much as they need Shaq.When kobe got poisioned and was sick for two games la lost both times.Thers so many more examples but I dont feel like putting them down.Who knows if kobe will be good without Shaq whats the point of even talking about it now cause him and Shaq will be together for like 5 more years atleast.So keep fuming and venting your hatred and probably jealousy towards kobe.I guess people will have to wait see what kobe will do huh.Maybe hell leave the lakers or retire at 27.

KOBE IS 23.23 will be 24 soon.Jordan was 29 when he won his first title.KObe has three.Not cause of Shaq cause of Kobe and Shaq.This duo are killers and they eat you alive.Kobe will just keep getting better every year and youll hate him more every year.He loves when he has booers and haters he just gives it to them more.Hes so young and just wait and watch what greatness he will become.

Oh one more thing about him being conceeded and arrogant every dam player in the nba is arrogant.The only difference is Kobe has the right to brag hes got the trophy and um others dont.


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## Sir I Gotta Go (Jul 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by *beautifulkobe *
> Hes also MR.Clutch.


O my god I **** in my pants for that one!:laugh: The game winner versus the spurs was because he dribbled it off his foot and derek fisher bricked it and he got a rebound and hit a layup.

That was one game after he traveled to lose the game!

And against the Kings in game 5 Robert Horry was open but no Kobe didnt want him to win it twice! He turns the other way and bricks! 

Kobe is not clutch!:no: 

And hes a punk EDITED . Reggie Miller kicked the NOT ALLOW! - Penny Hardaway  out of Kobe. Chris Childs stole him twice in a row without kobe doing nothing.


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## Sir I Gotta Go (Jul 7, 2002)

Question. How many titles would Kobe have won without Shaq? Zero. 

Kobe is the most overrated Please don't say that anymore in history. 

If you have a man guarrding you and shaq is down low in front of you, your man is gonna drop down to help on Shaq. So you have an open jumper. Shiet Keith Van Horn can do that.

Oh he is so spectacular! He can dunk over Todd Maculloh 



And for your question of if they could win it with some other star, then why dont they trade him. Say you are lakers management. I know its a scary thought but bear with me. If you just won a goddamn championship why would you make durastic trades?


I have edited you 4 times in a day for your masked profanity, I don't wanna be over restricted but not to this extent, wach your language please - Penny Hardaway


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## I Hate You (Jul 4, 2002)

McGrady's better than Kobe and the numbers proove it. T-Macs scoring average was higher, the assists were even, but what really does it is, T-Mac averaged over 2 more rebounds per game than Kobe.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

*Re: Re: Oh Kobe,this needs to be said*



> Originally posted by *Malakian *
> 
> 
> O my god I **** in my pants for that one!:laugh: The game winner versus the spurs was because he dribbled it off his foot and derek fisher bricked it and he got a rebound and hit a layup.
> ...


Like you could have made it. That shot was great, stop hating on Kobe and pick someone else.


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## Wilt_The_Stilt (Jun 7, 2002)

*Re: Re: Oh Kobe,this needs to be said*



> Originally posted by *Malakian *
> 
> 
> O my god I **** in my pants for that one!:laugh: The game winner versus the spurs was because he dribbled it off his foot and derek fisher bricked it and he got a rebound and hit a layup.
> ...


Kobe dribbled off his foot...and MJ shoved down Russel to hit his last shot in 98....I hope you don't think Jordan is clutch...cause that was luck that the refs didn't call it.

Oh of course..he traveled...it is all his fault they lost right? No one else but him lost the game...yeah right

After Kobe missed...he said hello to Bobby Jackson...whose head was inside his jersey...btw the play was setup for Kobe-thats why he didn't pass

Miller didn't kick his butt at all...and Childs the baby....gave him two quick weakest punches I have ever seen...then Kobe got him in the mouth and Childs ran away...crying and bleeding...while Kobe had to be pulled away..childs hid behind his teammates...who is the punk?


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## Wilt_The_Stilt (Jun 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by *I Hate You *
> McGrady's better than Kobe and the numbers proove it. T-Macs scoring average was higher, the assists were even, but what really does it is, T-Mac averaged over 2 more rebounds per game than Kobe.


Numbers dont prove everything-they don't tell the whole story...Kobe has put up his numbers while being a SECOND OPTION...how good were T-mac's numbers when he played with another superstar ?(vince)


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

I can answer that question...his numbers sucked a$$ when he was with Vince.:yes: :dead:


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## hOnDo (Jun 26, 2002)

> Originally posted by *The X Factor *
> I can answer that question...his numbers sucked a$$ when he was with Vince.:yes: :dead:



yeah exactly..kobe puts up awesome numbers for a 2nd option, while vince and tracy put up relativly the same numbers as the 1st option.


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## John (Jun 9, 2002)

Guys, we moderators arent online 24 hours a day, so may I please ask people don't use masked profanity here. If this thread is getting worse with the language or such, I will not tolerate it and I will close this thread! - Penny Hardaway


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## OZZY (Jun 14, 2002)

Most people hate Kobe because of the Shaq thing. Come on if Kobe did not have Shaq, quess what he would not have one damn title ring on his finger!!!!!!!!!

Would Michael Jordan won a championship if Ewing of Hakeem was on the Bulls when he was young, YES he would have!

And this hole Penny didn't win with Shaq thing? What do you call the finals in 1995, yeah they didn't win the title but it was there first time. And just like the Lakers they sucked when they first got Shaq and Kobe, so I believe with time Penny and Shaq could have won 2 or more titles also!!!!!

:yes:


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## beautifulkobe (Jun 24, 2002)

Ya thats great that you belive that Shaq could of won with penny if he stayed in orlando.But the truth is youll never know.So whats the point of even imagining it.Yes they got to the finals.BUt they didnt win a title.
If tracy was really better then kobe then coaches and gms and all the other experts would put him above kobe.But guess what they didnt.
Ill take an experts opinion who knows what they are talking about and more about the game over a fan of another team. 
Sports Illusrated just called "kobe the best player in the world".Tracy has never gotten that compliment.

I bet if kobe was a free agent right now any team in the nba would give up one of their best players for him.I cant belive people say hes overrated and he wins cause of Shaq.Shaq needs to prove himself without kobe as well.


Its actually pointless to compare kobe to tracy and others cause kobe is part of a duo.Thats not separating anytime soon.None of the other players have two big superstars who kill.Hes not alone yet.
When he is by himself then you should start playing the whos better game.



Magic had kareem,Jordan had pippen and it goes on.Magic didnt win until kareem neither did jordan until pippen.Nether did Shaq till kobe.Get it.Its a pattern.


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## AirGrady (Jun 14, 2002)

> Originally posted by *beautifulkobe *
> 1.Great bla blah he has Shaq thats why hes won.Well did shaq win with penny? or any other player until the evil(kobe) matured and came to the lakers.No.So you can say the same thing about Shaq.He needs to prove he could win without kobe too.


Have you ever thought about Shaq being 2x the player he is now than he was back in Orlando?!?! Have you ever thought about how Shaq nore Kobe won untill Phil Jackson arrived and turned the team around? It's different when a player is riding the jock of another player. Kobe is a ****IN Pippen! Shaq is the leader and the reason why they won. Wilt didn't need to prove he could with without West and Baylor because Wilt was the real reason they were so dominant. Mj didn't need to prove he could win without Pippen because without MJ, they are 2 and out. Kobe is the new era Pippen. Ridin' the coattails of a dominant player!



> 2.The person who said kobe was unhappy about charlotte and got himself traded or whatever.Thats bull.Jerry West traded him for vladie Divac(ironic isnt it).What was Jerry thinking trading a great center for a highschool rookie?What an idiot.I bet he regrets that


<b><font color=blue>(Do NOT call other posters names. Thank you.)</b></font>Kobe was unhappy about being in Charlotte and he refused to play there unless he got traded to the Lakers. His whinning *** should learn to quit crying and be a real man. Sissy! 



> 3.I really dont understand why and I dont care why all you guys hate kobe or give him his due.It doesnt change a thing.He still will get better every year.He still will be with Shaq and they probably will continue to be unbeatable together.He still will be compared to jordan constantly and the media will still adore him.He wants to be the best player as kobe not jordan.He didnt even like jordan.Magic is his idol.


Who the hell cares what the media thinks? They've compared so many damn players to Jordan in the last 10 years that you think they are his ****ing relatives. Kobe isn't Jordan and he'll never be. Once Shaq retires, the whole world will witness how much of a pussy team leading player KobemyselfandI Br'I'ant is.



> 4.The funny thing is GMs,coaches and analysists,legends rate kobe as the best player in the nba behind Shaq and compare him to MJ.Phil Jackson recently said kobe has a chance to be better then Michael.
> But you guys think Tracy mgrady is better or paul pierce.Its funny that your the only fans/non fans who think that.
> If tracy or paul is better then kobe why arent coaches and legends praising tracy or paul and ranking them number 1 or 2.If they think they so great.


What the hell is Phil suppose to say? His new players are the Lakers! He's not going to say, no Kobe has no way to be as good or better. That's dumb. GMs, coaches, and analysists, and legends have all sung their praises about McGrady also. I bet your *** is sitting in your room with the Kobe posters on your wall crying because people rate McGrady higher than Kobe. Nonono, not your beautiful Kobe Bryant. It can't be true. 




> 5.Why if anyone could play with Shaq and win as you say.Why dont they trade kobe and get another shooting guard?Hmm I really wonder about that.Dont you?


Because that would make a ton of people unhappy. The only shooting guards that a team would trade for Kobe are Ray Allen, StackHouse, Finley, and maybe Iverson with his offcourt things going on. The Magic and Celtics has superstars that wants to play for their team. They would not give up the players that they have had since rookie year and 2 seasons ago for a player who hasn't done **** without Shaq leading the way.




> 6.THE EXPERTS OF THE NBA SURE DONT THINK HES OVERRATED AND SURE DONT THINK TRACY OR VINCE OR PAUL IS BETTER THEN HIM.
> I know I wont change your opinions of him.
> But really admit it if Kobe was on your team you would love him cause he kills your teams in the 4th quarter and he has some talent right?Hes also MR.Clutch.


*****, you don't know **** about basketball. You're a teenybobbing kobe *** kissing poster who Kobe would never have the time and day for. Go watch some SOAPS or something. Who the **** cares what experts think? Everyone except Thompson sucks ***. Walton, don't get me started. Costas gets payed to say BS like he does. Mr. Clutch my ***!! What game has he been clutch in WITHOUT Shaq carrying the team for the first 3 quarters saving Kobe's enegry level? What game except maybe the 6ers game last season when he faked that BS rib injury did he step up in the clutch in without the STAR and main reason they win player not playing? Face it, Kobe is a unproven Pippen!



> 7.The Tracy thing.Ya whatever hes good and has got skill.


Atlease your *** knows one thing!



> Its funny how noone praises him or puts him on every cover and calls him the next jordan or compares him to any greats.


Maybe because he isn't trying to be Jordan. Maybe he has a game compared to alot of players alloted together? 



> Is he mr clutch no.Has he won three championships.NO.Who cares if he has Shaq or not.


If your *** can't see that Shaq is the true reason the Lakers are so dominant than you need some damn glasses.



> Jason kidd didnt have Shaq or a big center and look what he did.Kidd is better then tmac for what he did.Kidd didnt have two superstars.Allen iverson look what he did without Shaq.Tracy is not that good when you look at what kidd did or iverson.If tracys better then them why didnt he bring his team to the finals?


Another dumb statement. Have you seen the teammates around Kidd and Iverson(the year be4) and looked at the teammates around T-MAC for the past 2 seasons?

Subract McGrady and Kidd

PG: Armstrong (Getting old as hell. Wants minutes cut and come off the bench)

SF:Miller (injured for half the season and even while he was injured, McGrady still kept the Magic in good enough shape.)

PF:Garrity (For a ****ing 11 points per game, his defense and rebounding gives him no credit whatsoever. His *** is a liability and T-MAC more than often goes over to Garrity's matchup to help out. 

C:Grant (a player who played powerforward for his whole career. WTF?!! I want to see the Lakers bench Shaq for an entire season and play Grant and the Center position.)



> In Conclusion um the lakers need kobe to win games as much as they need Shaq.When kobe got poisioned and was sick for two games la lost both times.Thers so many more examples but I dont feel like putting them down.Who knows if kobe will be good without Shaq whats the point of even talking about it now cause him and Shaq will be together for like 5 more years atleast.So keep fuming and venting your hatred and probably jealousy towards kobe.I guess people will have to wait see what kobe will do huh.Maybe hell leave the lakers or retire at 27.


Yeah, he'll retire at 27 so he can hide his weakness. A player who can't win without a 330 pound muscle dominating the league. Look at the record without Shaq last season. Under .500. And then look at the record without Kobe. They didn't miss a beat.



> KOBE IS 23.23 will be 24 soon.


I bet you know is SSN also.



> Jordan was 29 when he won his first title.KObe has three.Not cause of Shaq cause of Kobe and Shaq.


See, I can already tell your weakness. You know what the truth is so you answer your own ****. It's because of Shaq. He is 3 times Finals MVP. Basically MVP for the last 4-5 seasons. The reason why Lakers are so dominant.



> This duo are killers and they eat you alive.


Is Shaq's new nickname duo?



> Kobe will just keep getting better every year and youll hate him more every year.'


IMO, he's as good as he's gonna get. I don't see any more potential in his ***. Instead of practicing on his game, he needs to practice boxing. Getting beat up by skinny-*** Reggie Miller made the whole HOOD laugh at him. HAHAHA...I got it on tape too.



> He loves when he has booers and haters he just gives it to them more.


I bet he does. I bet that's the reason why his eyes were watery and his eye was twitching during the Boos at the All-Star game. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:



> Hes so young and just wait and watch what greatness he will become.


Did you try to rhyme there? Atlease you have more flowing skills than Kobe "Wanna Be Thug" Bryant! :laugh: "K-O-B-E, yes that's me-me." :laugh:



> Oh one more thing about him being conceeded and arrogant every dam player in the nba is arrogant.The only difference is Kobe has the right to brag hes got the trophy and um others dont.


No, SHAQ has the right to brag. Kobe has the right to inform everyone that he is wearing Cheap-Rings.

<b><font color=blue>(PLEASE watch your language, as vulgarity is not allowed, as you can see by the edits. Thanks for your understanding on these issues.)</b></font>


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## TheRifleman (May 20, 2002)

*"Magic didnt win until kareem "*

You should have that as Kareem didn't win - as much(ONCE)- until Magic Johnson came into the NBA.

Magic wasn't even the 2nd scoring option on his team, sometimes, not even the 3rd scoring option. HE WON it all at 20, his first year with Kareem injured in the 5th game of the finals, did NOT play in that deciding 6th game, where Magic was the FINALS MVP for his spectacular play!! 

*Magic didn't need him as much as Kareem needed Magic, just like Kareem needed OSCAR for his one ring in the previous 10 years!!!*

I love Magic and he should always get his just due.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

to me, what's important is:

kobe puts up big numbers
kobe plays for a winner, and is a huge contributor to the winning
kobe elevates his game in the big moments
kobe contributes in all areas of the game, filling in and picking up the slack wherever necessary
kobe is the lakers go-to guy down the stretch
kobe effectively runs the offense

all these things are true. yelling and screaming and cursing and saying bad things about kobe doesn't diminish what he's accomplished, or the place he's carving out in history. some may not like it, but they really can't change that.


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## TheRifleman (May 20, 2002)

That was nicely said, kflo. 

When their careers are done, there is not too much to "debate", is there? 

Kobe (like any great player) will always have his defenders and his detractors, but his career will speak for itself.


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## I Hate You (Jul 4, 2002)

Well I was right. T-Mac's better than Kobe because he puts up better numbers. T-Mac has a higher scoring average when the defenses are focused on him, where as Kobe often gets left wide open because of the double and triple teaming of Shaq. ANd please don't give us this "2nd option crap". Kobe takes more shots per game than T-Mac so there goes your "2nd option" excuse down the toilet. T-Macs just a downright more talented player and we all know it. Even you Kobe lovers, deep down inside, know that T-Mac is better than Kobe. The numbers don't lie you all. T-Mac is better.


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## Chops (May 30, 2002)

For the people saying how bad T-Mac's numbers were with Vince in Toronto:

It was his first 2 years in the league! Did he go to college? No he came out of HS. Of course his numbers aren't gonna be very good.


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## Wilt_The_Stilt (Jun 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by *KC *
> For the people saying how bad T-Mac's numbers were with Vince in Toronto:
> 
> It was his first 2 years in the league! Did he go to college? No he came out of HS. Of course his numbers aren't gonna be very good.


Do you think he would have as good of numbers as Kobe-if he had Vince on his team right now?...I doubt it


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## Chops (May 30, 2002)

I have no basis for speculation and neither do you.... Just like I can't say, would Kobe have any championships without Shaq?


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## I Hate You (Jul 4, 2002)

Ok since you all are worrying about T-Macs number his first 2 season in the NBA how about I mention Kobes weak *** number his first 2 season in the NBA? We all forget his middle-single digit scoring average? What about the multiple air balls that ended LAs season againt Utah?


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

tmac takes 20.9 shots per game, kobe 20.0 shots per game.

you're aware that kobe's scoring goes up when shaq's not around, right?

numbers can't prove who's better. they're both great players. tmac's certainly been the better rebounder. offensively, personally i'd give the edge to kobe. defensively, close, kobe better on guards, tmac better on bigger players. more accomplished player? right now, kobe's got a big lead. 

2 great players.


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## Wilt_The_Stilt (Jun 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by *I Hate You *
> Well I was right. T-Mac's better than Kobe because he puts up better numbers. T-Mac has a higher scoring average when the defenses are focused on him, where as Kobe often gets left wide open because of the double and triple teaming of Shaq. ANd please don't give us this "2nd option crap". Kobe takes more shots per game than T-Mac so there goes your "2nd option" excuse down the toilet. T-Macs just a downright more talented player and we all know it. Even you Kobe lovers, deep down inside, know that T-Mac is better than Kobe. The numbers don't lie you all. T-Mac is better.


Actually Kobe last year shot 20.0 shots per game. T-Mac shot 20.9-so T-mac does shoot more shots per game...is that a flushing sound I hear....

oops--we posted at the same time kflo


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## Chops (May 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by *kflo *
> tmac takes 20.9 shots per game, kobe 20.0 shots per game.
> 
> you're aware that kobe's scoring goes up when shaq's not around, right?
> ...


It depends what you call accomplished. If winning 3 championships as the second fiidle is a huge acomplishment, then yes Kobe has the lead. If leading your talent-less team to the playoffs on a bad back while fighting through constant double and triple-teams is an accomplishment, then T-Mac has the lead.....

I'd say they are pretty much even, but T-mac has more talent and is a better player, IMO.


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## BizzyRipsta (May 25, 2002)

*Re: Re: Oh Kobe,this needs to be said*



> Originally posted by *AirGrady *
> Kobe was unhappy about being in Charlotte and he refused to play there unless he got traded to the Lakers.


that part is true. plus, the nets were going to draft kobe, but kobe's manager threatened and said that if they draft him, kobe would not play in jersey, but instead he would go play in europe.


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## BballChickaDee (Jun 21, 2002)

*Ok beautifulkobe...*

)


> Originally posted by *beautifulkobe *
> Yes Im a girl first of all and yes I love the lakers and think kobe is a psyco player.Hes not a normal.Im not kissing kobes but or being bias.This is what I think is wrong with this picture
> Anyways......
> I just was browsing through this board and did any of you notice the majority of this board is about kobe.The majority of this board hates kobe and so does his hometown philadelphia but what does that do.Nothing.All you guys get to do is vent your hatred towards him or boo.


I can see by your posts and well...by your user name that you are a big fan of Kobe's. Now don't get me wrong I am a fan of Kobe too, I mean he is a great basketball player and isn't all that bad looking (haha  ). But he DOES have his flaws (just like everyone else). I mean if he was the *awesome* player that you make him out to be in a majority of your posts, than why would there be a Laker team? Why would there be a NBA for that matter? Kobe would whip everyone's a**. But he *isn't* the player you make him out to be. Again, I'm a fan of Kobe, he definetly has some mad skills but he isn't perfect. And I think if you are really a fan of a player...you see there pro's and con's, not just their pro's...

That's just what I think....


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by *KC *
> 
> 
> It depends what you call accomplished. If winning 3 championships as the second fiidle is a huge acomplishment, then yes Kobe has the lead. If leading your talent-less team to the playoffs on a bad back while fighting through constant double and triple-teams is an accomplishment, then T-Mac has the lead.....
> ...


certainly fair enough. i'll just say that it's a far rarer accomplishment to be a 27 ppg player (29.5 in last years playoffs) for a 3 time championship team than to lead a mediocre band of teammates to the 1st round. that's been done by players we've all forgotten about.

i'll also ask if their career's were to end today, who do you think would be getting more hall of fame votes? i'd say the more accomplished one.


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## Chops (May 30, 2002)

Yeah, but that is beside the point kflo. That doesn't tell the story of who the better player is. That is the whole argument here, who is better? Not who is more decorated or accomplished. Hell, Derek Fisher is more accomplished than McGrady, but that isn't the point of this discussion.....


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

it sure sounded sounded like you were arguing tmac was more accoplished than kobe in your prior post.

i'd certainly argue that tmac has proven far more in the nba than fisher has. fisher isn't more accomplished in my book.

what do we have to go by to argue who's better? certainly their accomplishments should be factored in, shouldn't they?


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## Chops (May 30, 2002)

What do we go by? Well, when comparing 2 players who are similar, I would say that we should go by who has done more with the situation they are in.....

Bringing in the argument that Kobe has 3 championships is unnecessary because McGrady hasn't had the opportunity to be in Kobe's situation. Just like I can't argue that T-mac has done more on his own beause Kobe hasn't been in T-Mac's situation. Those are moot points.

What it boils down to is probably statistics and just a personal opinion of who is the better player.....


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

Championships have <b>absolutely NOTHING</b> to do with hall of fame eligibility, and have <b>absolutely NO EFFECT</b> on hall of fame votes. I don't know the exact erquirements, but nowhere does it state you need to be a championship winner.

If both players would retire today, none would make the HoF because their careers aren't long enough to meet the requirements. That answers that quesiton.


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## Sir I Gotta Go (Jul 7, 2002)

*Re: Re: Oh Kobe,this needs to be said*



> Originally posted by *AirGrady *
> 
> 
> 
> ...




The media called Harold Minor a "baby Jordan". Media dont know ****.:laugh:


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

for you that's what it boils down to. it also helps your position to ignore accomplishments. all players situations contribute to their accomplishments. that doesn't mean you just ignore the accomplishments because the situations are different. why do the stats count, given the different circumstances, and not the team accomplishments. they're all dependent on their situation. hey, i'm not saying add up wins, or add up anything. i'm just saying that we should look at their contributions to their teams, look at how they've performed as the situation get bigger. it's no knock on mcgrady that he hasn't won yet. but i just think it's in kobe's favor that he has, and that he's contributed greatly to that.

bb, you're wrong (and kodiak's wrong also). you have to be retired 5 years to meet the eligibility requirement. that's all. after that, anyone can get voted in. kodiak likes to list 8 criteria that the committee takes into consideration, but anyone can be voted in, if they have enough votes. championships are CERTAINLY a consideration for voters. they're certainly not a requirement, but having won them isn't irrelevant. why would voters ignore championships? it's ludicrous to ignore any of a players accomplishments when it comes to the hof. it all counts. like one would expect.


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## Chops (May 30, 2002)

LOL. It helps your position to take into consideration, team accomplishments. The reason statistics matter is because if you look at their minutes and shots per game, they are very close. Situation matters even if you don't want to give any credit to Mcgrady. Ok, if you give credit to Kobe for being the "Scottie Pippen" on 3 championship teams, then you have to give credit to Mcgrady for duing what he has done without the benefit of a player like Shaq..... No matter what you say, those team accomplishments mean very little when you are deciding you the better player is....

I have proven my point and this topic has gotten repetitive.....


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

the pippen card is an easy one to pull. i could say he played the "magic johnson" role just the same. it ignores their actual responsibilities to their team. 

pippen never had anywhere near the offensive responsibility kobe has. pippen wasn't chicago's go-to guy. kobe is la's go-to guy. their similarity is that they played with the best player in the league. with pippen, there were legitimate questions as to whether he could shoulder an offensive load and be a go-to scorer. kobe already is.

btw, pippen was a great player, and the titles he did win certainly are in his favor. his legacy is greater having been a part of 6 championship teams than it would have been without them. guys who have won don't have to answer the question "why didn't he win".

but, round and round we go.


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## Chops (May 30, 2002)

Uhh....

Shaq is LA's go-to-guy.....

You can't say Kobe played the Magic role because Magic never played with anyone as dominate as Shaq. Shaq has no legitimate threat to even try to stop him. Try again.....


I'm done.


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## beautifulkobe (Jun 24, 2002)

Ok im not some teenie obsessed with basketball.Fine maybe I dont know as much as a coach but I know a good player when I see one.I never said kobe had any flaws and I dont think hes perfect.Ive seen him struggle in games before.There is tons of room for improvement.I just cant belive the amount of fans who cant even admit hes a good player not a sidekick.
Its uselss cause none of you will change your opinion about him.I think even Vince is better then Tracy.Tracy doesnt really do anything for me.A lot of players are more talented then him.
Ya and experts they know nothing about basketball.A fan knows more about talent and great players then a coach.Please! 

Hello um tracy cant even guard Kobe good.A one on one kobe would win hands down and I would bet money on it.


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## BballChickaDee (Jun 21, 2002)

*I didn't mean to offend you...*



> Originally posted by *beautifulkobe *
> I just cant belive the amount of fans who cant even admit hes a good player not a sidekick.
> Its uselss cause none of you will change your opinion about him.I think even Vince is better then Tracy.Tracy doesnt really do anything for me.rolleyes:


Ok, if its useless...than why do you care SO much. People are entitled to their opinions...so you don't have to try and change them...

Kiara


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## BizzyRipsta (May 25, 2002)

> Originally posted by *beautifulkobe *
> Ok im not some teenie obsessed with basketball.Fine maybe I dont know as much as a coach but I know a good player when I see one.I never said kobe had any flaws and I dont think hes perfect.Ive seen him struggle in games before.There is tons of room for improvement.I just cant belive the amount of fans who cant even admit hes a good player not a sidekick.
> Its uselss cause none of you will change your opinion about him.I think even Vince is better then Tracy.Tracy doesnt really do anything for me.A lot of players are more talented then him.
> Ya and experts they know nothing about basketball.A fan knows more about talent and great players then a coach.Please!
> ...


yeah, it's definitely a matter of opinion. not everyone likes kobe, and i'm sure that you don't like some of the players that non-kobe fans like.


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## Sir I Gotta Go (Jul 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by *beautifulkobe *
> 
> 
> Hello um tracy cant even guard Kobe good.A one on one kobe would win hands down and I would bet money on it.



Payup!:laugh:


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## Chops (May 30, 2002)

C'mon, Tracy would kill Kobe one-one-one. He's taller and stronger. He probably has a quicker first step as well....


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

kobe is the guy la looks to to make plays in the 4th, particularly as the game winds down. has been for a long time. 

i'm talking about their contributions to their team, and the responsibility they have for their team's success. magic didn't have shaq. he had kareem, worthy and mcadoo, among others. you could argue that's as good as having shaq, no? kobe's scoring responsibilities, despite the presence of shaq, are far greater than magic's were. there's obviously more involved, but you just throw out blanket statements. try again....(being dismissive is a pretty annoying tactic, agree?).

shaq has no legitimate threat to even try and stop him, yet kobe was the leading scorer for la in rounds 1 & 2. trivialize his accomplishments all you want, but the guys plays a huge role in la's success.


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## beautifulkobe (Jun 24, 2002)

ya it sure looked like kobe was getting killed by tracy at the all star game.Tracy guarding him.Ya kobe couldnt make a basket when he guarded him


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## Chops (May 30, 2002)

Well, that's not really one-on-one. McGrady probably had a better game than Kobe anyways... :yes:


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## beautifulkobe (Jun 24, 2002)

Ok hypathetically lets take kobe out of la and put him in college.Where do you guys think la would be right now with phil jackson?You still have the starting five except kobe put another player there.


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## beautifulkobe (Jun 24, 2002)

Actually kc if you missed the all star game.Mgrady scored 24 and kobe got 31 he was the mvp.
The last player who scored over 30 ponits was jordan in 93.

Mgrady could of been mvp if he led the east to win.Instead kobe and the west won.

Both teams had amazing players.Heck jordan played too.It could of gone either way.It even got close when kobe went out of the game.But then he came back and demolished the west with the help.

Thanks for coming out!


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## Chops (May 30, 2002)

Yeah, I did see the game, but I'm saying that McGrady played better. He got his points within the flow of the game. It seemed to me that Kobe was forcing up shots and trying to win MVP in front of his home crowd...... I think T-Mac played the better all-around game.


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## beautifulkobe (Jun 24, 2002)

your opinion fine.BUt tracy didnt play nearly agressive as kobe did.Thats why kobe got all those points.His team was passing to him so dont go and say he was hogging the ball and trying to win mvp. From what I saw he was wearing everyone out.


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## Chops (May 30, 2002)

He was forcing up shots from what I saw.....


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## JerryWest (Jun 24, 2002)

T-mac's game is awkward... he puts up numbers but he wouldn't do well with another scorer taking lots of shots.


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## Sir I Gotta Go (Jul 7, 2002)

Well we will find out when he has Grant Hill and Tim Duncan on his team.:yes:


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## Sonic Force (Jul 9, 2002)

You know, I'm not the biggest Kobe fan, but you have to give Kobe credit. He's as good if not better than Tracy McGrady. He's already been on the ALL NBA First Team, the All Defense Second Team, and he's won three rings being the playmaker of the Laker offense (i.e. scoring, creating for others, forcing turnovers). Can McGrady claim ANY of those accomplishments?? Kobe has shown repeatedly in the regular and post season that he is clutch while McGrady has shown that he can have monster first halves and disappear in the 4th quarter. I am a much bigger fan of McGrady then I am of Kobe, but right now I have to admit that Kobe has a slight edge over McGrady.


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## PhatDaddy3100 (Jun 16, 2002)

Will you guys please stop making comparisons with Magic and Kobe with their scoring when they had a dominent center on their team? Magic was a passing play making point guard. Kobe is a scoring shooting guard. They were completly different players! Plus, scoring isn't everything. T-Mac in my opinion is better because he is not as selfish as Kobe and has a better all around game. He rebounds better and passes better than kobe. Scoring wise and playing defense, they are the same.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by *PhatDaddy3100 *
> Will you guys please stop making comparisons with Magic and Kobe with their scoring when they had a dominent center on their team? Magic was a passing play making point guard. Kobe is a scoring shooting guard. They were completly different players! Plus, scoring isn't everything. T-Mac in my opinion is better because he is not as selfish as Kobe and has a better all around game. He rebounds better and passes better than kobe. Scoring wise and playing defense, they are the same.


the comparison is with their offensive contributions on championship teams. not just scoring, but importance. they're both critically important. they both had other huge contributing factors as to why they were champions, but that doesn't change the responsibilities they had for their teams success. the argument against kobe is often that other circumstances are the primary reason for his success, not his play. couldn't the same be said for magic? i say obviously neither is true, but if you're going to use the logic one way, try and use it consistently.


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## 3PeatComplete (Jul 11, 2002)

Sonic Force, I completely agree wit what you last said.

I for one like Kobe...he's got MAD skills, you all gota admit it! You don't have to think he's the best but you all know he's damn good. And yea, having Shaq on his team makes it a LOT easier to win, but I think it's also good for Shaq to have Kobe on his team...for one, Shaq can atleast know that there is another scorer who can take the ball in the 4th quarter so that Shaq doesn't get fouled and have to shoot foul shots (he's improved greatly at those but who knows how long that'll last).

Kobe's good, nuff said. Tracy's good too but Kobe's more clutch and has betta D.


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## kobe's forehead (Jul 11, 2002)

kobe's dfense is overrated. plus he is not clutch.


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## 3PeatComplete (Jul 11, 2002)

*D*

I do agree that Kobe's D is overrated, but I'm just sayin that its better than t-macs.


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