# Celtics 2015 Catch-all Offseason Thread



## Bogg

> After exceeding most reasonable expectations for the season by making a playoff cameo, the Boston Celtics' fan base seems more intrigued about the future than reflecting on the past.
> 
> The most common question in the aftermath of the 2014-15 season is how Boston can add talent to legitimatize itself as a contender for future seasons. While it will be a slow, two-month crawl until draft night when business really picks up again, this felt like a good time to reset the status of the Celtics' roster and look at what lies ahead.
> 
> *Guaranteed contracts for the 2015-16 season*
> 
> Gerald Wallace -- $10.1 million
> 
> Avery Bradley -- $7.7 million
> 
> Isaiah Thomas -- $6.9 million
> 
> Marcus Smart -- $3.4 million
> 
> Evan Turner -- $3.4 million
> 
> Tyler Zeller -- $2.6 million
> 
> Jared Sullinger - $2.3 million
> 
> Kelly Olynyk -- $2.2 million
> 
> James Young -- $1.7 million
> 
> The skinny: The Celtics have committed $40.3 million to nine players, but five of those contracts are reasonable rookie scale deals. Sullinger and Zeller are extension eligible, though neither would seem likely to ink this summer. Wallace clogs up a quarter of the current salary commitment (more on that later).
> 
> *Restricted free agents*
> 
> Luigi Datome -- $2.2 million
> 
> Jae Crowder -- $1.2 million
> 
> The skinny: Boston can make both Datome and Crowder restricted free agents by extending qualifying offers in the period from the last game of the NBA Finals until June 30. By doing such, the Celtics will have the right to match any offer those players receive during free agency (or the player can simply sign to play for one season at the qualifying offer). Celtics president of basketball operations Danny Ainge has remained steadfast that he sees Crowder as part of the team's future, while coach Brad Stevens has said he'd like to see Datome stick around.
> 
> *Non-guaranteed contracts*
> 
> Phil Pressey -- $947,276
> 
> Chris Babb -- $947,276
> 
> The skinny: Two low-cost options that could either fill out the end of Boston's bench or be moved in order to free roster/cap space.
> 
> *Unrestricted free agents*
> 
> Jonas Jerebko, Brandon Bass
> 
> The skinny: Jerebko emerged as a key reserve after his arrival from Detroit, and the Celtics will have interest in bringing him back at a reasonable rate. His chunky cap hold could force the team to decide quickly if he'll be back in green. It seems less likely that Bass will be back. He was a good soldier here, but the Celtics have depth at the 4, especially if Jerebko comes back or they draft at that spot.
> 
> *Draft picks*
> 
> The Celtics own picks Nos. 16, 28 (via Clippers), 33 (via 76ers) and 45 in this year's draft.
> 
> The team's future picks are listed HERE. Boston will also have former second-round pick Colton Iverson to audition again this summer.
> 
> The skinny: It's reasonable to wonder if the Celtics might consider bundling picks to move up and acquire players that intrigue them more. One thing is certain: Boston won't use all its picks moving forward, and they'll be assets in acquiring more established talent at some point or another.
> 
> *Wallace's future*
> 
> One of the biggest questions for Boston is how it proceeds with Wallace. There are essentially three options: (1) Endure his high cap hit for one more season and then clear him completely from the books; (2) Trade him to a team seeking future cap relief, but it will likely cost Boston a draft pick; (3) Utilize the stretch provision to stretch Wallace's $10.1 million hit over the next three seasons.
> 
> How Boston proceeds likely depends on whether it needs that cap room to add talent next season. The Celtics can still maneuver via trade routes and remain above the cap, which might allow them to stomach Wallace's deal one more season. But Boston might be enticed to move him out if a team (hey, Philly!) was willing to absorb his salary for one of the Celtics' less glitzy future first-round picks. Stretching isn't the worst possibility when you consider that $3.4 million will be a mere 3 percent of the team's cap in two seasons (and only 5 percent next season, though it's less than ideal to muddy the books for three years).
> 
> The salary cap is expected to jump to $67.1 million next season (with estimates of $89 million and $108 million in the seasons to follow).
> 
> So let's say Boston chooses Option 2. Suddenly, Boston's total salary commitment for next season would drop to $30.2 million for the remaining eight-man core. Pencil in holds for Crowder and its 2015 first-round picks ($1.5 million for No. 16; $1 million for No. 28), and Boston (theoretically) has $33.2 million to work with (though that could decrease quickly if Crowder signs an offer sheet here or with another team, and assumes Boston otherwise clears its books). If the Celtics shed some additional salary, however, there would be the potential to add as many as two max players (though one would have to be in the early stages of his career given the tiers of max contracts based on years of service).
> 
> *The fun starts on draft night*
> 
> One thing to keep in mind: The Celtics have a gaggle of lingering trade exceptions, the most noteworthy being the $12.9 million exception from the Rajon Rondo deal and a $7.7 million exception from the Tayshaun Prince trade (this after Jerebko and Datome were absorbed into other trade exceptions). If Boston elects to clear as much cap space as possible for July 1, then it must renounce those trade exceptions.
> 
> The fun ought to start on draft night and give us a better idea of how the Celtics might navigate moving forward. The one thing that we keep going back to: Boston has no shortage of options to add talent and will have the sort of assets to muscle into the bidding for any big-ticket player that becomes available.
> 
> As Ainge has stressed, it's all about being patient and leaping at the right opportunity. Where the Boston goes from here is cloudy, but it's clear the Celtics have positioned themselves well with multiple potential paths to navigate.


With any luck Ainge will follow up the C's playoff run to end this past season with some quality additions over the summer to keep them in the race next year. The roster's really ripe for a consolidation trade or two, as they simply can't keep everyone (even if you assume they waive the non-guaranteed guys), make all their draft picks, and bring back the guys that Stevens seemed to like (nevermind signing actual free agents). One guy that continues to intrigue me: Roy Hibbert, especially if Larry Bird is really intent on pushing him out the door. Roy doesn't fit what the team does on offense, but he can still protect the basket, which is currently something Boston can't do at all. If Hibbert opts in and the Pacers shop him hard, I wouldn't be opposed to a one-season audition to see if he can be mildly rejuvenated under Stevens and hold down the center position.


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## Bogg

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/04/30/celtics-will-need-convince-free-agents/yLwEFWxnwFcBn1rp0UY7nN/story.html?event=event25



> *Celtics will need to sell free agents on coming to Boston*
> 
> WALTHAM — When it was suggested that the last two free agents the Celtics signed who were in or near their prime were Xavier McDaniel and Dominique Wilkins, team president Danny Ainge cringed.
> 
> “Who?” Ainge said Thursday. “I can’t think of any [we signed], that’s why I was curious.”
> 
> When told Wilkins was 35 and McDaniel 29 when they signed with Boston in the 1990s, Ainge responded, “Oh, they were old.”
> 
> Ainge may not have remembered the last time the Celtics signed a free agent in his prime, but they will have an opportunity this summer, coming off a surprising playoff appearance and with the perception that the franchise is on the rise.
> 
> So, Ainge will approach the offseason knowing he could determine if the Celtics return to glory with a couple of major decisions. Yet not even he could answer whether a free agent in his prime would choose Boston.
> 
> Selling Boston to a major free agent could be difficult when compared with New York, Miami, or Los Angeles.
> 
> It’s not keeping players in Boston, it’s getting them to Boston. Most of the players who have passed through Boston in the past decade would do it again and did not want to depart. But most were drafted by the Celtics or acquired in trades. They didn’t have any choice.
> 
> ‘We need to get our message out and we need to sell our franchise, sell our coach, and sell our organization and the opportunity for players to come in and play.’
> 
> Ainge will attempt to lure a big-name free agent with cash, the potential of being the next great Celtic, and the opportunity to win. All of those are possible.
> 
> “Most of the guys who have played here love it here,” Ainge said. “And they don’t want to leave once they’re here. All of them aren’t real excited about coming here when they first get here, but by the time they leave they love the organization and they love the city. So, we need to get that word out. But I think that a lot of agents respect our team and respect our organization, our history. A lot of players listen to things their agents have to say that have been in the NBA for a long time. And we’ve tried to run our organization with respect, understand that 18- and 19- and 20-year-old guys don’t really know that much about Celtics history and it’s probably not going to play a big part in free agent signing.”
> 
> Ainge is right. Some of this summer’s potential free agents — Kevin Love, Kawhi Leonard, Jimmy Butler, and Draymond Green — were in high school when the Celtics won the 2008 championship. And it’s nearly impossible to sell tradition with grainy game tapes of Larry Bird hitting rainbow jumpers. You sort of had to be here. So, the plan is to sell the new Celtics, an organization under a brilliant 38-year-old coach who puts his players in the best position to succeed.
> 
> The evidence includes Jae Crowder becoming a playoff factor after being a forgotten reserve in Dallas, and Tyler Zeller turning into a dependable asset after barely playing last season for lottery-bound Cleveland, and Evan Turner reliving his Big Ten glory days with three triple-doubles in a month.
> 
> If Boston is a place where you will make money and be well-coached, it could become a more attractive free agent locale.
> 
> “Ultimately every player is different, unique. Some players look at the Celtics organization and the tradition and think it’s something special, some don’t,” Ainge said. “Some prefer hot weather to cold weather. But most players prefer good contracts and good opportunities to play and hopefully to win. We have to prove to people that we have the opportunities for them to be paid, to play and reach their full potential, and to win. And I think Boston would be a good destination — for some.”
> 
> Stevens said following last Sunday’s Game 4 loss to the Cavaliers that he wasn’t a salesman, and he isn’t. But he will have no issue being a recruiter.
> 
> “One of the things I believe in is being very candid and honest,” Stevens said. “We will provide an environment where guys hopefully realize they can achieve their best. We’re going to give everything we have so that they feel that way. People will hopefully notice the quality of person we have in the locker room, the way our guys supported each other. It’s hard to sell that if it doesn’t exists, but it happened.
> 
> “Hey, I grew up in the Midwest. I’ve been to Boston one time in my life and I couldn’t be more impressed with Boston and I couldn’t be more excited about the opportunity to live here. That’s something that I’ll hopefully be able to share when that time is appropriate.”
> 
> Ainge knows he will have to convince players to come here. He understands the perception of the organization and the city. He understands that most of the players he will recruit will have to ask him if he actually played the game at one time.
> 
> “We need to get our message out and we need to sell our franchise, sell our coach, and sell our organization and the opportunity for players to come in and play,” Ainge said. “And some players will like it and some won’t. It’s that simple. Some players will choose sunshine over cold, but ultimately most players want to be paid and want an opportunity to play their game and be respected by the league, and want an opportunity to win.”


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## Bogg

I thought this was an interesting tidbit today.....

http://www.csnne.com/boston-celtics/celtics-have-growing-interest-willie-cauley-stein



> CHICAGO – *Two league sources told CSNNE.com Friday that the Boston Celtics are “very open” to moving up in next month’s NBA draft.
> 
> And while the sources did not indicate which player Boston was targeting, there are growing signs that they have their sights set on trying to draft Kentucky big man Willie Cauley-Stein.
> 
> Projected to be among the first 10 players selected, the Celtics would have to move up several spots from their current position - the 16th overall pick – in order to select the 7-foot center.
> 
> Cauley-Stein was one of the first players the Celtics interviewed this week at the pre-draft combine.*
> 
> As much as players take this time to sell themselves to teams, the Celtics have made of point of making sure that players know as much about the Celtics franchise as possible.
> 
> Needless to say, Cauley-Stein liked what he was hearing.
> 
> “The organization, the way they’re running, they’re on a tight ship,” Cauley-Stein said when I asked him about his impressions of meeting the Celtics’ brass. “They got a lot of young guys, but a lot of young talented guys. To be that young and to be where they’re at is really amazing. You can tell that begins with the coaching staff. The players have to buy into it.”
> 
> While his focus was on leading Kentucky to a national championship – they came up short in losing to Wisconsin in the Final Four – he did manage to follow a little bit of Boston’s late-season run that catapulted them into the postseason where they were swept in the first round by Cleveland.
> 
> Cauley-Stein had more than a passing interest with one of his former teammates, James Young, a member of the Celtics.
> 
> “I try to keep up with him as much as possible,” Cauley-Stein said. “They (Celtics) did some really good things towards the end of the season to get where they were at. That’s what’s so intriguing about it; to do all that with young guys is amazing.”
> 
> In his conversations with Young about the NBA and the Celtics, Cauley-Stein came away with a better sense of understanding how challenging the leap from college to the NBA can be.
> 
> Look at Young for example.
> 
> He was the best player on the floor for the Wildcats during Kentucky’s national championship runner-up finish in 2014.
> 
> Young slipped to the Celtics at No. 17 and spent a good chunk of his rookie season playing for Boston’s Development League affiliate, the Maine Red Claws.
> 
> “Just the amount of work that has to be put in,” Cauley-Stein recalled Young telling him. “The time, learning the game, studying the game, which is big hearing that from James.”
> 
> Cauley-Stein added, “You can tell you have to grow up at a rapid pace. By going to Kentucky, you’re prepared for that. You have to grow up real fast and pay attention to detail. That’s a lot of stuff he was telling me. When you get up there, you have to pay attention to detail, learn at a fast rate; dudes (are) ahead of you. You have to try and pick up the slack.”
> 
> Regardless of where he’s drafted, Cauley-Stein will have to be a quick learner. In the NBA, success involves being as strong mentally as well as physically which was among the many lessons he honed when he decided to return to Kentucky this past year after bypassing the 2014 NBA draft when he was seen as a first-round pick who would have been selected in the mid-teens or early 20s.
> 
> “It helped me a lot mentally,” Cauley-Stein said. “I’m one of the older dudes in the draft which is cool. Went through a lot of different things at Kentucky so staying there an extra year, didn’t do anything but make it better for me to enter the draft now.”


I figure any package that Boston's going to put together to move up into the 5-9 range (where they'd have to be to draft WCS and some of the other guys they've been interviewing) has to start with Avery Bradley and one of Boston's first-rounders this year. Probably not enough by itself, so you're likely throwing in one or more of Boston's non-Marcus-Smart players on rookie deals and maybe taking back a contract as well. Very interesting possibility though, as hitting on a "cash in some quarters for a chance at a dollar" move is exactly the kind of thing Boston needs right now.


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## Bogg

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/05/24/isaiah-thomas-feels-like-part-celtics-future/SIHYddbhluCjq9zVhxrPIP/story.html



> Isaiah Thomas has played for three NBA teams in just over one year, so he understands the fickle nature of his industry. Even though the point guard was the catalyst behind the Celtics’ improbable resurgence, even though he electrified TD Garden and helped make his new franchise relevant again, he knew an active offseason was looming. And that could bring uncertainty, even for him.
> 
> Thomas lived in a hotel after being acquired in a February trade with the Suns, and he has still yet to purchase or even lease a home in Boston, so it has been difficult to get past a feeling of temporariness. But a recent conversation with Celtics president of basketball operations Danny Ainge was both comforting and compelling.
> 
> “Danny said if there’s any free agent out there I’m interested in, to let him know,” Thomas said by telephone. “That has me excited. For him to ask for my input means a lot, because it means I’m definitely, right now, a part of the future, and they also value your word and what you think about the game of basketball. It means a lot, and it’s a mutual respect we have. Now, hopefully, we can get a few guys.”
> 
> Thomas did not name specific players on his wish list during an interview with the Globe, but he said a rim-protecting big man would be at the top of it.
> 
> “A defensive-minded player,” he said. “It’d be nice to get one of those in the draft. A lot of the big men out there could definitely help us out. But I know Danny is always up to something.”


Isaiah seems to think he's got some recruiting pull, and while I'd love for him to be right about it, I'm skeptical about who he'd even be able talk into signing in Boston if he were right. That being said, he is right about the need to add a big man. I'm sure Ainge will try his best to trade up for WCS, but I don't expect him to be successful. After that, and if the free agent market dries up, I'd kick the tires on all the possible buy-low options out there that might be able to fill the middle, even if only for the time being - guys like Hibbert, Tiago Splitter, Mason Plumlee, and even Jason Thompson (if Sacramento wanted to pay us to take him) spring to mind.


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## RollWithEm

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/606091152421462016


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## Damian Necronamous

I doubt that Boston is able to package those picks to move up, unless they're willing to part with a player like Avery Bradley or Jared Sullinger in the process.

If I were a betting man, I'd say that C's will draft RHJ at No. 16 and a PF at No. 28.

Isaiah Thomas / Marcus Smart
Avery Bradley / Evan Turner / James Young
Rondae Hollis-Jefferson / Gerald Wallace
Jared Sullinger / No. 28 Pick
Tyler Zeller / Kelly Olynyk

That's essentially what they'll be looking at headed into Free Agency. With six first round picks over the next two years, there's definitely a lot of room to deal for a big name player or two. However, I just question which player would want to be the first one to make the leap and risk that no one else follows.


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## E.H. Munro

I want no part of Hollis-Jefferson. He's basically a poor man's Gerald Wallace. They already have a much better version of that player in Jae Crowder.


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## Bogg

http://journaltimes.com/sports/basketball/bucks-beat-ilyasova-embraces-fresh-start/article_3a06bb60-0e34-5314-b7bc-1415bff2c1e4.html



> Ilyasova, who was dealt for Racine native Caron Butler and Shawne Williams, was a part-time starter for the Bucks last season, playing in 58 games and starting 36 of them.
> 
> However, he could be the Pistons’ full-time starter as veteran Greg Monroe will become an unrestricted free agent on July 1. *There is strong speculation Monroe will sign with either New York or Boston*.


Boston got mentioned as one of the most likely Greg Monroe destinations in a write-up on the Illyasova trade recently, and the more I think about it the more I'm okay with it. He put up 16 and 10 this year despite sharing the floor with Andre Drummond, and his above-average passing skills would fit in with what Brad Stevens likes to do on offense. He's not my first choice, mostly because of defensive concerns, but he'd be an upgrade over anyone else on the Celtics' roster. Also, if he has a solid season or two in Boston he's the potential centerpiece of a future Demarcus Cousins trade, likely with either multiple or a high first-round pick(s), and I like the idea of better positioning the team for if Cousins demands out.


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## Bogg

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/238269/Celtics-Trying-To-Move-Up-To-Select-Myles-Turner



> *The Boston Celtics are actively attempting to trade up in next week's draft in order to select Myles Turner, according to multiple league sources.*
> 
> The Celtics own the 16th overall pick in the draft and Turner is expected to be picked several slots earlier.
> 
> One of the Celtics' most pressing needs this offseason is a rim protector. Turner blocked 4.2 shots per 36 minutes in his freshman season at Texas.
> 
> The Celtics have one of the deepest collections of future draft assets in the entire NBA, with as many as four potential first rounders in 2016, which gives them considerable flexibility in attempting to move up.


I can see the fit - Boston badly needs a shot-blocker and Turner looks to have a viable jumpshot as well. If all he is is Kelly Olynyk who protects the rim that's still a very useful player. I'll be interested to see what it takes.


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## Bogg

All's quiet on the free agency front so far. Apparently Boston's looking to keep Crowder and Jerebko, from among their own free agents, and have been in contact with Tobias Harris and Amir Johnson, but no official signings or proposed numbers yet.


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## Bogg

Apparently Amir Johnson's signing in Boston for $24 million over 2 years. My first reaction to this is that he provides some length and athleticism that the C's front court was really lacking, but also that that's a lot of money for a guy like him. Hopefully the second season is a team option, a la Jordan Hill's contract with the Lakers last year. I don't love it, but I can live with it.


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## Bogg

Jerebko's sticking around for 10 million over 2 years. Glad to hear it, he seemed to settle in well after coming to Boston and his ability to guard two or three different positions in a pinch is useful.


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## RollWithEm

Bogg said:


> Apparently Amir Johnson's signing in Boston for $24 million over 2 years. My first reaction to this is that he provides some length and athleticism that the C's front court was really lacking, but also that that's a lot of money for a guy like him. Hopefully the second season is a team option, a la Jordan Hill's contract with the Lakers last year. I don't love it, but I can live with it.


Not a bad signing at all... if the team wasn't already overflowing with role players.


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## Bogg

RollWithEm said:


> Not a bad signing at all... if the team wasn't already overflowing with role players.


Well, the thing is, they just finished tearing down the KG/Pierce Celts five months ago, and made the playoffs by accident. I don't really have a problem with them bottoming out next year, if it comes to that, because they're currently positioned to have two lottery picks (theirs and Brooklyn's), plus a possible third depending on how this summer plays out (Dallas' pick). If in the meantime Johnson generally acts as a good team defender and medium-large salary piece for trade-building purposes I'm okay with it.


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## RollWithEm

Bogg said:


> Well, the thing is, they just finished tearing down the KG/Pierce Celts five months ago, and made the playoffs by accident. I don't really have a problem with them bottoming out next year, if it comes to that, because they're currently positioned to have two lottery picks (theirs and Brooklyn's), plus a possible third depending on how this summer plays out (Dallas' pick). If in the meantime Johnson generally acts as a good team defender and medium-large salary piece for trade-building purposes I'm okay with it.


The problem is that Amir is just enough of an upgrade to all but guarantee Stephens gets them to the playoffs again this year.


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## Bogg

RollWithEm said:


> The problem is that Amir is just enough of an upgrade to all but guarantee Stephens gets them to the playoffs again this year.


Eh. It's going to be really tight for Boston and Brooklyn next season, as all of the top-six incumbents from last season would need serious injury problems to fall out of the playoffs and Indy/Miami should be getting healthy, while New York's at least paying lip service to re-stocking their team through free agency. Stevens is going to do a good job, but I have a feeling that they'll fall short next year without a major trade somewhere. 

In a follow-up to my thoughts on Johnson though, I wouldn't mind it if Ainge were able to talk Portland into a sign-and-trade for Robin Lopez that nets Portland Olynyk and Sullinger, and maybe some minor draft picks, for taking back Gerald Wallace's expiring contract. Turning Bass/Sullinger/Olynyk into Johnson/Lopez/Jerebko would add a lot of length and defense to a frontcourt that didn't have much of either last year. If there's really going to be a Portland exodus (and it's looking like there is), then the Blazers are going to want to have _something_ to show for it.


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## RollWithEm

Bogg said:


> In a follow-up to my thoughts on Johnson though, I wouldn't mind it if Ainge were able to talk Portland into a sign-and-trade for Robin Lopez that nets Portland Olynyk and Sullinger, and maybe some minor draft picks, for taking back Gerald Wallace's expiring contract. Turning Bass/Sullinger/Olynyk into Johnson/Lopez/Jerebko would add a lot of length and defense to a frontcourt that didn't have much of either last year. If there's really going to be a Portland exodus (and it's looking like there is), then the Blazers are going to want to have _something_ to show for it.


I think that move actually makes a good deal of sense for Portland as well.


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## Bogg

It's kicking around the internet that the second seasons of both Amir Johnson and Jerebko's contracts are not guaranteed, which makes me feel much better about the signings. Having $20 million in non-guaranteed money on the roster come draft night 2016 is potentially very useful when hunting on the trade market (especially if they have 3 lottery picks to build with as well).

EDIT:

Here we go-


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/616345263033184256

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/616348089859883008


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## Bogg

Also an interesting blurb from Bulpett in his write-up:



> Sources from other teams and within the player rep community say the C's are also in play for Tobias Harris and Corey Brewer, but in those cases the club is said to have its limits. There are salary and length-of-contract parameters for each that Boston will not exceed.


http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/celtics_nba/celtics_insider/2015/07/bulpett_celtics_reel_in_amir_johnson_on_first_day_of_nba


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## Bogg

Jae Crowder re-signed last night for $35 million over 5 years, no options on either side. Reasonable value for a guy who defends multiple positions and sets the tone in the locker room. I'm glad they're bringing him and Jerebko back, gives the team a lot of versatility in responding to both big and small lineups.


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## Attila

Is it just me or $12 million a year a bit much for Amir Johnson? That's how much Al Horford makes this year.


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## agoo

It is, but we weren't getting anyone else and the second year, from what I'm reading, is not guaranteed. So its a great deal since we can easily move that contract.


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## Bogg

Attila said:


> Is it just me or $12 million a year a bit much for Amir Johnson? That's how much Al Horford makes this year.





agoo101284 said:


> It is, but we weren't getting anyone else and the second year, from what I'm reading, is not guaranteed. So its a great deal since we can easily move that contract.


agoo has it right - Johnson was signed to be a trade chip as much as anything else, and overpaying was the cost of getting him to sign a one-year deal. It's just this year's version of the deal Jordan Hill signed with the Lakers last season, so there's no way that it can negatively affect Boston long-term.


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## Geaux Tigers

What do yall think about Jordan Mickey?


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## Bogg

Geaux Tigers said:


> What do yall think about Jordan Mickey?


Eh, I'm concerned that he's about 2 inches too short to really be effective without a workable outside shot, but then again that would be why he fell to the second round. I don't have terribly high hopes for him, but I'm keeping an open mind because he, at least in theory, provides a very different player profile than most of Boston's frontcourt.


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## Geaux Tigers

Well he is absolutely undersized but he's one of the most gifted shot blockers I have seen. I think he will make a defensive impact on the Celtics. His offensive game will lag behind his D, but hes got great hustle and can absolutely help off of the bench.


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## Bogg

Geaux Tigers said:


> Well he is absolutely undersized but he's one of the most gifted shot blockers I have seen. I think he will make a defensive impact on the Celtics. His offensive game will lag behind his D, but hes got great hustle and can absolutely help off of the bench.


Yea, I mean, I don't dislike him or anything, I just worry about how effective a shot-blocking big man can really be at 6'7".


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## Bogg

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/celtics_nba/celtics_insider/2015/07/celtics_had_trade_talks_with_denver_for_danilo_gallinari



> LAS VEGAS -- The Celtics recently spoke with Denver about a trade for Danilo Gallinari, but those discussions did not get anywhere.
> 
> However, multiple sources told the Herald that talks could be revived and that the situation bears watching. On the other hand, there were conflicting comments about the Nuggets' willingness to make Gallinari available. Some said Denver will likely keep the 6-10 shooter, while others insist the club is willing to part with him for the proper price.
> 
> Gallinari is entering the final year of his contract and will make $11,559,225 in 2015-16. As such, he would be a good risk/reward for the Celtics, who are looking to improve their perimeter shooting. More than half of Gallinari's field goal attempts came from beyond the 3-point arc last season. He shot .355 from that range, while averaging 12.4 points in 24.2 minutes in his first year back from ACL surgery.
> 
> The bulk of the discussion regarding the soon-to-be 27-year-old came prior to the draft. But there is the sense among many league execs here at the Las Vegas summer league that teams are becoming more open to trade talk now that most of the free agent pieces have fallen into place.


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## Bogg

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/07/14/celtics-get-forward-perry-jones-draft-pick-trade-with-thunder/ZqALNicrmKQaMDE25wqYCO/story.html



> The Celtics and the Thunder have agreed to a deal that will send forward Perry Jones III, cash considerations, and the Pistons’ 2019 second-round pick to Boston in exchange for a protected second-round pick, the teams announced on Tuesday.
> 
> The Thunder had previously acquired that second-round pick from Detroit. Since teams must exchange assets in some form to complete a trade, the Celtics agreed to send the conditional second-round pick to the Thunder. But the contingencies on the Celtics’ pick are such that it is unlikely it will ever actually be shipped to Oklahoma City, a source said.
> 
> 
> For the Thunder, this is a move done primarily for salary purposes. When Oklahoma City signed forward Enes Kanter to a max contract this week, it sent them deep into the luxury tax. This move will ultimately lower that bill by about $7 million while also freeing up a roster spot.
> 
> For the Celtics, this was essentially a no-risk move. They used their newfound salary cap space to complete the deal and now will have a chance to evaluate Jones, or simply turn around and package him in a separate move. One league source said there were no indications that another Celtics deal was imminent, but added that Boston “has a lot of things in the cooker.”
> 
> Jones, 23, was selected with the 28th overall pick of the 2012 draft out of Baylor. Last season the 6-foot-11-inch forward averaged 4.3 points and 1.8 rebounds in 14.7 minutes per game. He has shown flashes of potential, including a 32-point burst against the Clippers last October. But he has yet to show any real consistency. Jones is under contract for $2 million next season and could receive a qualifying offer in 2016.


I suppose Jones is a potentially interesting project for Stevens if he makes the team, but this just seems like Ainge picking up whatever trade chips he can using the remainder of his cap space before wiping it out by signing Crowder and trading for Lee. I wouldn't be surprised to see him eat another medium-small contract for a second or two in the next few days if nothing bigger comes around.


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## Bogg

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/621333328029814784
Another minor move in the wake of the Perry Jones trade, but in reality Phil was probably gone as soon as they drafted Rozier. Necessary, but a shame - guy gave 100% every play on both sides of the ball and never complained about inconsistent minutes. Such is life though, I hope he finds a good basketball situation somewhere else, be it in the NBA or overseas.


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## Bogg

Little bit of end-of-the-roster bookkeeping:

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/celtics_nba/boston_celtics/2015/07/celtics_ink_mickey_to_4_year_deal



> LAS VEGAS — After an interesting week of negotiations, the Celtics yesterday announced the signing of second-round draft pick Jordan Mickey.
> 
> The team did not release terms of the agreement, but sources told the Herald it is a four-year deal for a total of $5 million. The first two years are guaranteed at a combined $2.4 million, with the latter two years at the team’s option.
> 
> The two sides had gone back and forth in talks, with Mickey seeking an opportunity to get to free agency sooner in order to, assuming he plays well, get his market value more quickly in an escalating NBA economy.
> 
> At one point, his representative was talking about accepting a one-year tender offer of $525,093. But that money would have been non-guaranteed and would have left him a restricted free agent at the end of the season, meaning the Celtics would have the right to match any offer he received next summer.
> 
> But while the Celts did hold firm and get the four years of control they sought, Mickey, the 33rd overall pick, is making out well. His guaranteed money is greater than that set for lower first-round picks in their first two years, and he will be able to become an unrestricted free agent at the end of these four years.
> 
> The 6-foot-8 forward was impressive in summer league, averaging 13.8 points, 9.6 rebounds and 2.6 blocks in 30 minutes of play in Vegas. He also shot 52.9 percent from the field.
> 
> Mickey also played three games in the Utah Summer League, averaging 9.7 points, 5.0 rebounds and 2.0 blocks while shooting 52.2 percent.
> 
> He led the NCAA in blocks per game (3.64) his senior year and led the Southeastern Conference in rebounding (9.9).


Good to get four years of control on Mickey, Ainge must like him to make him higher-paid than RJ Hunter, at least over the first two or three years of that deal, and go out of his way to keep him from hitting the open market. 

http://www.sportando.com/en/world/asia/169773/marcus-thornton-heading-to-australia.html



> Boston Celtics draftee Marcus Thornton is heading to Australia, one source told Sportando. Details of the team are still unknown.
> 
> Last season with William & Mary he averaged 20 points, 2.8 rebounds and 2.9 assists per game.


Not a surprise. Boston's out of roster spots, and the rumor was that Thornton was selected in the second round largely because he agreed to go overseas right from the get-go.


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## RollWithEm

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/623852513431826433


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## Bogg

RollWithEm said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/623852513431826433


I don't know if I'd go that far. I'd say Ainge executed well on what couldn't have been any more than Plan C or D after the various avenues to acquire a star didn't pan out, but overpaying a guy to take a one-year deal with a team option for a second isn't over-the-top genius, either. Certainly better than panicking and maxing out a guy who doesn't make sense just to have something to show for the summer, but Johnson's more "making the best of a bad situation" than anything.


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## RollWithEm

So what's the depth chart looking like?

*PG* Avery Bradley/Isaiah Thomas
*SG* Marcus Smart/James Young/Chris Babb
*SF* Evan Turner/Jae Crowder/Jonas Jerebko
*PF* David Lee/Jared Sullinger/Perry Jones III
*C* Amir Johnson/Tyler Zeller/Kelly Olynyk

I just don't see a way that Brad Stevens won't have those guys in the playoffs again... it's just that Charlotte and Indiana might have something to say about that.


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## RollWithEm

So I guess they basically have a 5-man rotation at the 1-2-3 spots with Bradley/Smart/Isaiah/Evan/Crowder. Then I think any given moment on any given night you could see any combination of the 6 bigs could wind up on the floor depending on match-ups.


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## Bogg

RollWithEm said:


> So what's the depth chart looking like?
> 
> *PG* Avery Bradley/Isaiah Thomas
> *SG* Marcus Smart/James Young/Chris Babb
> *SF* Evan Turner/Jae Crowder/Jonas Jerebko
> *PF* David Lee/Jared Sullinger/Perry Jones III
> *C* Amir Johnson/Tyler Zeller/Kelly Olynyk
> 
> I just don't see a way that Brad Stevens won't have those guys in the playoffs again... it's just that Charlotte and Indiana might have something to say about that.





RollWithEm said:


> So I guess they basically have a 5-man rotation at the 1-2-3 spots with Bradley/Smart/Isaiah/Evan/Crowder. Then I think any given moment on any given night you could see any combination of the 6 bigs could wind up on the floor depending on match-ups.


It'll be interesting to see what Stevens does with the guard/swingman lineup this coming year, assuming no further major shakeups. Lee/Johnson look to be a good bet to be the starting frontcourt, although I suppose Zeller could force his way into the conversation with a strong camp. You'll probably see more of Jerebko at power forward than you might expect, particularly if he continues shooting the 3 like he has over the past two years, because his versatility and athleticism (relative to the other bigs) make him very useful in Stevens' system. I'm thinking we'll likely see something like Lee/Johnson starting, Zeller as the backup center, Jerebko playing backup minutes at both the 3 and 4, and one of Olynyk/Sullinger getting the rest of the backup minutes and the other getting squeezed out of the rotation and eventually traded. Jordan Mickey will be a shot-blocking force in Maine, but we won't see much of him in Boston, and Perry Jones probably gets cut. Chris Babb is going to Golden State in the David Lee deal, and quite honestly is probably a better end-of-the-bench guy for them than Gerald Wallace.

With the guards, starting the Smart/Bradley backcourt more or less necessitates Evan Turner out there as the point forward, and the team was actually very successful with that group closing out last season (and Turner averaged about 7 assists a night over the stretch). However, Isaiah Thomas continues to make noise about being the starting point guard, and he is probably the best offensive player on the roster, but with how ball-dominant Thomas is it would no longer make sense to start Turner. The organization also seems to love Jae Crowder, who make way more sense alongside Thomas since he's a better defender and less likely to dribble the air out of the ball. Starting Thomas also means one of Smart/Bradley goes to the bench, and I'm not quite sure how that would go over. I'm thinking we continue to see the Bradley/Smart/Turner perimeter group out of the gates, since it's so much better on defense than any lineup featuring Thomas and they'll be getting additional frontcourt scoring this year with David Lee being added. The potential wildcard here would be Smart showing he can handle the point guard duties full-time, in which case I could see Crowder being moved into the starting lineup and Evan Turner eventually shipped out. 

Rozier will get a chance down the line, and I like the kind of player he projects out as if he develops, but this year he's probably going to spend almost the whole year in Maine, along with RJ Hunter and James Young. Quite honestly, with those three and Mickey inside the Red Claws, at least, are probably going to be pretty stacked this year.

EDIT: I may have been a little off regarding Rozier's time. Regardless of what happens with Isaiah Thomas starting or coming off the bench, someone's going to have to be the fourth guard in the rotation, and with James Young not exactly excelling over the summer those minutes are going to be up for grabs.


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## E.H. Munro

RollWithEm said:


> So what's the depth chart looking like?
> 
> *PG* Avery Bradley/Isaiah Thomas
> *SG* Marcus Smart/James Young/Chris Babb
> *SF* Evan Turner/Jae Crowder/Jonas Jerebko
> *PF* David Lee/Jared Sullinger/Perry Jones III
> *C* Amir Johnson/Tyler Zeller/Kelly Olynyk
> 
> I just don't see a way that Brad Stevens won't have those guys in the playoffs again... it's just that Charlotte and Indiana might have something to say about that.


I don't think any of the top six teams have gotten worse, and Miami and Indiana have taken huge leaps forward. Boston'll make a valiant fight for the eighth spot, but they're far more likely to finish out of the playoffs than in as is.


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## RollWithEm

E.H. Munro said:


> I don't think any of the top six teams have gotten worse, and Miami and Indiana have taken huge leaps forward. Boston'll make a valiant fight for the eighth spot, but they're far more likely to finish out of the playoffs than in as is.


The Hawks, Wizards, and Raptors have all gotten a tiny bit worse IMO. I still fully expect them all to be better than the Celtics, though.

"HUGE LEAPS" for Miami and Indiana? Egh. I guess we'll see. They both look marginally better on paper, but major injury concerns are still present for those two teams as well as the Bulls.

I think the Pacers, Heat, Celtics, Hornets, and possibly even the Nets and Magic are right there in the same tier. If any one of those teams manages to make it through the regular season free from lengthy injuries to key players, that team could wind up being the 7th seed.


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## RollWithEm

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/625689639429492736

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/625690047145246720


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## Bogg

E.H. Munro said:


> I don't think any of the top six teams have gotten worse, and Miami and Indiana have taken huge leaps forward. Boston'll make a valiant fight for the eighth spot, but they're far more likely to finish out of the playoffs than in as is.


I agree that Miami should be better this year, even if Wade only plays 60% of the season, with what should be full seasons of Bosh, Dragic, and Whiteside. Indy, however.....I mean, obviously Paul George coming back is a boost, but there's no guarantee he'll be the same guy, and they just replaced their starting frontcourt with Jordan Hill and.....Chase Budinger? They might make the playoffs, but I don't think they're head and shoulders above the rest of the third tier of the East. Also worth mentioning that Washington could fall apart if their guards get banged up (which isn't exactly a stretch) and that Milwaukee wasn't particularly great last season after the Knight-MCW trade. 

I do think, though, barring injury there's really only one Eastern playoff spot up for grabs, with the other seven going to last year's top six and Miami.


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## agoo

Now that the Heat gave us Zoran Dragic, we're clearly superior!

Before anyone says it, yes I know its not the good Dragic.


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## Bogg

agoo101284 said:


> Now that the Heat gave us Zoran Dragic, we're clearly superior!
> 
> Before anyone says it, yes I know its not the good Dragic.


I wonder if Ainge is really going to come to camp with 17 guaranteed deals as the cost of picking up the extra second-rounders knowing they'll have to waive two guys or if there's going to be a multiple-for-one deal just to clean up the back end of the bench. Apparently Zoran came with the cash to pay his salary, so Boston can waive him essentially without penalty - same as Perry Jones.


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## Porn Player

RollWithEm said:


> The Hawks, Wizards, and *Raptors have all gotten a tiny bit worse IMO.* I still fully expect them all to be better than the Celtics, though.


You watch your mouth. You're correct in regards to the Hawks, you're off base with my Raptors.


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## Bogg

Porn Player said:


> You watch your mouth. You're correct in regards to the Hawks, you're off base with my Raptors.


I'm not quite sure what to make of the Raptors - they've probably upgraded their perimeter group (although I'm not sure enough is being made of the loss of Williams and Vasquez), and Biz is a better backup center than what they've rolled out the last two years, but the power forward position is thin and I don't think they have much in the way of expendable salary with which to build a trade.


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## E.H. Munro

RollWithEm said:


> The Hawks, Wizards, and Raptors have all gotten a tiny bit worse IMO. I still fully expect them all to be better than the Celtics, though.


Porter improved over the last third of the year for the Wiz. I think Pierce is a postseason loss, I'm not sure that it's much of a regular season change. As for the Raptors, there's a small defensive downgrade, but a significant offensive upgrade, so I think it's a wash for them. The Hawks may now be a 58 win team rather than a 60+ win one, but that's not really pertinent to Boston's chances.



RollWithEm said:


> "HUGE LEAPS" for Miami and Indiana? Egh. I guess we'll see. They both look marginally better on paper, but major injury concerns are still present for those two teams as well as the Bulls.


The only major injury concern for the Heat is Wade, which is survivable thanks to Dragic's presence. Unless you expect Bosh to contract another rare blood illness a full season of two top 20 NBA players is a gigantic leap forward for the Heat. As for the Pacers, they have their MVP candidate back, a legitimate second scoring option, and a giant TPE to add another piece to their team. Yeah, huge upgrade.



RollWithEm said:


> I think the Pacers, Heat, Celtics, Hornets, and possibly even the Nets and Magic are right there in the same tier. If any one of those teams manages to make it through the regular season free from lengthy injuries to key players, that team could wind up being the 7th seed.


The Celtics, Hornets, Pistons, and Knicks are the third tier of the East. They will need a wave of injuries to one of the second tier teams for there to be a playoff opening. The Nets have no shot at the playoffs. They're far more likely to 18 games than 38.


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## UD40

Sent my buddy, who is a big time Celtics fan, a text today reading "Dragic to Boston!"

Needless to say he was really thrilled, then really upset.


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## E.H. Munro

Bogg said:


> I agree that Miami should be better this year, even if Wade only plays 60% of the season, with what should be full seasons of Bosh, Dragic, and Whiteside. Indy, however.....I mean, obviously Paul George coming back is a boost, but there's no guarantee he'll be the same guy, and they just replaced their starting frontcourt with Jordan Hill and.....Chase Budinger? They might make the playoffs, but I don't think they're head and shoulders above the rest of the third tier of the East. Also worth mentioning that Washington could fall apart if their guards get banged up (which isn't exactly a stretch) and that Milwaukee wasn't particularly great last season after the Knight-MCW trade.
> 
> I do think, though, barring injury there's really only one Eastern playoff spot up for grabs, with the other seven going to last year's top six and Miami.


Indiana has their primary option back, and for the first time in his career he has a second option that can create offense. Hibbert was so awful last year that I suspect they'll get more from Turner this year than they did from Roy last year. They don't really need much from Hill aside from some solid D at the 4/5.

Milwaukee had more issues than just spacing at the time, don't forget that the whole Larry Sanders oap opera was unfolding at that time. They're getting Parker back this year, added a post scoring center, and now have quality depth at the 4/5, with another year's development from the Greek Freak. They're one of the teams that's going to get better this year.

I do agree that there's at most one playoff spot open at the east, and that Boston will try valiantly. It's just that I think they're likely to be a 38-40 win team and that this will probably be the year that the entire eastern conference all star team doesn't get injured. (I mean the odds dictate that one of these years nearly all the East's best players won't miss 30-80 games.)


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## RollWithEm

E.H. Munro said:


> Porter improved over the last third of the year for the Wiz. I think Pierce is a postseason loss, I'm not sure that it's much of a regular season change.


I'm excited about Porter's potential to improve as well, but Nene is a shell of a player at this point who's always hurt anyway. I just don't see the same frontcourt of Humphries, Gooden, and Blair covering that deficiency. Even if Porter gives you a good bit of Pierce's production, they'll be a little worse.



> As for the Raptors, there's a small defensive downgrade, but a significant offensive upgrade, so I think it's a wash for them.


Amir to Biyombo is actually a pretty significant offensive downgrade. They also lost the 6th man of the year - who was a purely offensive player. Even if the Vasquez to Corey Joseph switch is a wash and even if DeMarre is a nice upgrade on Ross with the starters, I'd say they got worse. Not a ton worse, but still a bit worse.



> The Hawks may now be a 58 win team rather than a 60+ win one, but that's not really pertinent to Boston's chances.


Agreed.



> The only major injury concern for the Heat is Wade, which is survivable thanks to Dragic's presence. Unless you expect Bosh to contract another rare blood illness a full season of two top 20 NBA players is a gigantic leap forward for the Heat.


Even with Bosh and Wade healthy last season, they weren't very good. Who knows if Whiteside is going to continue to improve or regress back towards his mean production from earlier in his career? They are certainly quite a bit deeper (assuming they are not crushed by injuries), so they are better. I just don't think they're THAT much better.



> As for the Pacers, they have their MVP candidate back, a legitimate second scoring option, and a giant TPE to add another piece to their team. Yeah, huge upgrade.


And no real frontcourt to speak of. They are missing 3 of the 5 starters who made them one of the top 2 teams in the East a couple years ago. Huge upgrade? Not very likely. I'd say they are more likely to finish last in their division than first.



> The Celtics, Hornets, Pistons, and Knicks are the third tier of the East. They will need a wave of injuries to one of the second tier teams for there to be a playoff opening. The Nets have no shot at the playoffs. They're far more likely to 18 games than 38.


The Nets are better than the Knicks and Pistons, still.

The Hornets have a real chance at sneaking into the playoffs. I would not be shocked to see them end the season with a better record than the Pacers. I wouldn't necessarily bet on it, but I think they are in the same tier... on paper.


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## E.H. Munro

The Nets are not better than the Knicks or Pistons, no. For one thing if you combined the Nets and Pistons the two best players would be Pistons, the best young guys would be Pistons, and the best Center would be Andre Drummond. The Nets be screwed.

Also, the Knicks won't be actively throwing games next year by starting 3rd string PGs and D-League washouts. Together in the same backcourt. They upgraded the C spot, massively (which is more a comment on the cannon fodder they were running out there last year than Robin Lopez, per se), added a placeholder at the 4 (Derrick Williams is a replacement level player) to let their new draft pick work his way into the lineup slowly, and won't be sitting Anthony 30 odd games into the season in order to get a top five pick.


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## Bogg

E.H. Munro said:


> Indiana has their primary option back, and for the first time in his career he has a second option that can create offense. Hibbert was so awful last year that I suspect they'll get more from Turner this year than they did from Roy last year. They don't really need much from Hill aside from some solid D at the 4/5.


Hm....Hibbert made some things difficult on offense, but he's still one of the best rim protectors in the league, and Indiana's strength over the last several seasons has been their defense - best in the league in '13 and '14, top ten in '12 and '15 - which was designed to funnel defenders into Roy. Jordan Hill just wrapped up a season manning the middle for the second-worst defense in the league. I'm not saying that Indiana is doomed or anything, but they're going to have to completely overhaul their defensive system now that they're starting......Hill and Mahinmi? Hill and Lavoy Allen? Hill and Budinger? in the frontcourt and Monta Ellis in the backcourt. If the offense doesn't hit a particularly high level next season Indiana could find themselves exceedingly average. 

A ton obviously hinges on to what extent Paul George fully recovers, but I think there are enough questions about how well the Fun-N-Gun Pacers gel and figure out a workable defensive system that I think they're closer to the East's third tier than a clear-cut second tier member.


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## E.H. Munro

If you want to put them at the top of the third tier I won't argue too much. At the end of the day they're doing what Boston is, surrounding their best player with warm bodies in hopes of getting somewhere. The difference being that their best player is a legitimate MVP candidate and Boston's is a barely 5'8" guard without a defensive position on the floor. So it's still a pretty big difference.


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## Bogg

E.H. Munro said:


> If you want to put them at the top of the third tier I won't argue too much. At the end of the day they're doing what Boston is, surrounding their best player with warm bodies in hopes of getting somewhere. The difference being that their best player is a legitimate MVP candidate and Boston's is a barely 5'8" guard without a defensive position on the floor. So it's still a pretty big difference.


Yea, I'm not saying that Boston's clearly better than Indy, just that the Pacers aren't necessarily a _lock_ for that final spot. I still think it's a little premature to say that George will be an MVP candidate this coming season, and I probably like Boston's 2-15 more than Indy's 2-15, so I'm going to be grouping the Pacers in the third tier fighting for a spot until they prove otherwise (which they may).


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## RollWithEm

I think the Eastern Conference standings could also be shaken up quite a bit by the possible downgrade from Thibs to Hoiberg and the probable upgrade from Jacque Vaughn to Scott Skiles.


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## E.H. Munro

Hoiberg's going to surprise people. At the very least the Bulls aren't going to arrive at the postseason broken by exhaustion. The Magic are a wildcard, though. They have much better kids than Boston, and the sort of athletic depth to play the sort of defense that Skiles is going to demand. They clearly need to add another shooter to the mix, but if they do they're going to be next year's version of last year's Celtics.


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## RollWithEm

E.H. Munro said:


> They clearly need to add another shooter to the mix


Mario Hezonja is going to shock some people this year.


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## E.H. Munro

RollWithEm said:


> Mario Hezonja is going to shock some people this year.


I meant beyond him. Unless Payton suddenly takes a big leap forward there's an awful lot of shaky shooting on that roster outside Oladipo, Harris, and Hezonja. If they can work out the spacing issues on offense by the all star break they're my pick for the team that finishes the season on a 20-10 run eking out a playoff spot.


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## RollWithEm

E.H. Munro said:


> I meant beyond him. Unless Payton suddenly takes a big leap forward there's an awful lot of shaky shooting on that roster outside Oladipo, Harris, and Hezonja.


I think Frye and Fournier are still their undisputed best shooters. Harris and Hezonja will likely fall in the second tier with Oladipo and Nicholson being their next best outside shooting options.


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## E.H. Munro

You know what, I completely forgot about Fournier (not Frye, he's pretty useless, I think Skiles'll run him out of town). So now I'm picking them as my garbage time all stars for '16. Because if there's one thing Skiles will get from that roster it's soulcrushing defense. They're young enough that they may even have enough in the tank to make the Cavs break a sweat.


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## Bogg

E.H. Munro said:


> You know what, I completely forgot about Fournier (not Frye, he's pretty useless, I think Skiles'll run him out of town). So now I'm picking them as my garbage time all stars for '16. Because if there's one thing Skiles will get from that roster it's soulcrushing defense. They're young enough that they may even have enough in the tank to make the Cavs break a sweat.


Orlando's got a nice little core - I do think they should be more active than they've been in chasing a headliner. However, I could make a compelling argument that when Boston and Orlando play, the Celtics have the two best offensive players on the floor in Thomas and Lee. That third tier of teams is just so big an unpredictable the C's could make the playoffs or finish towards the very bottom of the east without it being much of a surprise. What I don't agree with, though, is that Boston is _clearly_ at the bottom of that third tier.


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## E.H. Munro

Bogg said:


> Orlando's got a nice little core - I do think they should be more active than they've been in chasing a headliner. However, I could make a compelling argument that when Boston and Orlando play, the Celtics have the two best offensive players on the floor in Thomas and Lee. That third tier of teams is just so big an unpredictable the C's could make the playoffs or finish towards the very bottom of the east without it being much of a surprise. What I don't agree with, though, is that Boston is _clearly_ at the bottom of that third tier.


I mean I said that I see them as a 38-40 win team next year, so I'm pretty clearly not putting them at the bottom. What I'm saying is that unless the East is done in again next year by a tidal wave of injuries to the conference's best players, that won't be enough to make the playoffs.


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## Bogg

E.H. Munro said:


> *I mean I said that I see them as a 38-40 win team next year*, so I'm pretty clearly not putting them at the bottom. What I'm saying is that unless the East is done in again next year by a tidal wave of injuries to the conference's best players, that won't be enough to make the playoffs.


Ah. I missed that part. My mistake. If that's the case, then I more or less agree with you - based on some of the comments I thought you were placing Boston more in the realm of 28-30 wins.


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## Bogg

http://www.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2015/08/danny_ainge_boston_celtics_cam.html



> It would have seemed like a dream -- the local kid getting drafted by his hometown team -- and it almost became reality.
> 
> During a recent conversation with NBA.com's Ian Thomsen, Boston Celtics president of basketball operations Danny Ainge said he came "really, really close" to drafting Arlington native Pat Connaughton.
> 
> The way one team source has described things to MassLive, the Celtics were considering selecting a big man, maybe Larry Nance, with their first-round pick. But after the Los Angeles Lakers surprised everyone by picking Nance at No. 27, Boston opted to go for the best player available -- in this case, R.J. Hunter. Had they picked a frontcourt player at the end of the first round, the Celtics would have felt comfortable adding Connaughton at No. 33. But after picking two perimeter players, Hunter and Terry Rozier, they did not consider acquiring a third one wise and opted to choose Jordan Mickey instead.
> 
> Because of a procedural issue involving a mistaken standing reach measurement, Ainge said he believes Connaughton's 44-inch vertical leap at the NBA draft combine was exaggerated. Still, Ainge said he admires the wing's toughness and considers Connaughton an NBA player.
> 
> "So they miscalculated by five inches,'' Ainge told Thomsen. "Now, 39 inches is still high. It's just not Andrew Wiggins-high. Andrew Wiggins is at 43. There is no way that Pat Connaughton is a better athlete than Andrew Wiggins, and all the others that are in the low 40s. He is a good vertical athlete off one leg, but he is not a good two-legged jumper, he's not a great athlete laterally, and he doesn't handle the ball very well because he played forward for Notre Dame. But he is very tough and I love him. We were really, really close to drafting him. I think he is an NBA player, he is a good kid, and I am a big fan.''


Interesting to know that he almost wound up in green. Honestly, I could have lived with them just taking Mickey at the end of the first round (I mean, he basically got the same contract anyway) and going with Connaughton in the second. Not in love with Hunter, but he did look better as summer league progressed. Still, the way I look at Hunter his "optimistic projection" is something like a poor man's Kevin Martin, which......I mean, I guess that's fine.


----------

