# Rodney White Gets Triple Double



## Sangha

17 points, 12 boards, 10 assists tonight against the Mavs.

13.8ppg, 4.8rpg, 3.8apg in his last 5 games.

Looks like he might be realizing his great potential.


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## grizzoistight

*oh god i knew it*

once i read the line about realizing his potential i knew the guy saying it was a bulls fan...
haha i remember when curry and chandler had double doubles and they acted like it was their breakout game and they were gonna win the title next year
rodney has a lot of talent but the kid isnt too bright
i remember that one game he had a break away and he bounced it off the floor to himself and missed the dunk
anyways this kid has potential

id like to see the nuggets bring in arenas and draft lebron
then have 
arenas rodney and lebron to go with nene skita and whatever other fa they can bring in

but please dont crown rodney white a savior after this one game..


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## nicholai

take it easy on the bulls fans. the "p" word is all they have to cheer about. :laugh:


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## NugzFan

great game by white! might never be an all star but a solid starter for sure. and he was free! great move kiki!


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## nicholai

> Originally posted by <b>NugzFan</b>!
> great move kiki!


what's this? kiki receiving praise? somebody mark it down on the calendar. this is truly a milestone.


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## Springsteen

grizzo

even if they assemble that team, say next year, they'd be three or four years from being a top flight contender. the bench would be below average, and the guys would still be ridiculously young. doesn't seem to me, like bringing in the Kandiman makes a lot of sense. if they get lebron, three or four years down the road, Kandi will be an old man. i would think going after the Kandiman only makes sense if they think they can compete next year or the following one. and really, i'm not sure with all that youth they can.


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## NugzFan

> Originally posted by <b>nicholai</b>!
> 
> 
> what's this? kiki receiving praise? somebody mark it down on the calendar. this is truly a milestone.


wow have you lived in a cave the last 2 years? lol. kiki has made a ton of great moves and is considered a good gm, if not great.


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## nicholai

> Originally posted by <b>NugzFan</b>!
> wow have you lived in a cave the last 2 years? lol. kiki has made a ton of great moves and is considered a good gm, if not great.


i'm sure denver fans would greatly appreciate it if some of those "great moves" would translate into some Ws already. :laugh:


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## SkywalkerAC

> Originally posted by <b>nicholai</b>!
> 
> 
> i'm sure denver fans would greatly appreciate it if some of those "great moves" would translate into some Ws already. :laugh:


their time will come. this year was another calculated step and will likely get them a great draft pick to work with.


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## NugzFan

> Originally posted by <b>nicholai</b>!
> 
> 
> i'm sure denver fans would greatly appreciate it if some of those "great moves" would translate into some Ws already. :laugh:


wow seriously...the cave...how long have you lived in it?

im serious.


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## nicholai

seven and a half years.


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## pharcyde

*Re: oh god i knew it*



> Originally posted by <b>grizzoistight</b>!
> once i read the line about realizing his potential i knew the guy saying it was a bulls fan...
> haha i remember when curry and chandler had double doubles and they acted like it was their breakout game and they were gonna win the title next year
> rodney has a lot of talent but the kid isnt too bright
> i remember that one game he had a break away and he bounced it off the floor to himself and missed the dunk
> anyways this kid has potential
> 
> id like to see the nuggets bring in arenas and draft lebron
> then have
> arenas rodney and lebron to go with nene skita and whatever other fa they can bring in
> 
> but please dont crown rodney white a savior after this one game..


No one crowned anyone a savior. All I saw was a poster pointing out the fact that Rodney White has played well over the past five games and that he might finally be starting to show why he was drafted in the lottery.


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## robyg1974

> Originally posted by <b>NugzFan</b>!
> wow seriously...the cave...how long have you lived in it?
> 
> im serious.





> Originally posted by <b>nicholai</b>!
> seven and a half years.


One of the all-time greatest deadpan Basketballboards.net comebacks! Give it up to Nicholai!


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## MemphisX

I would not touch Kandi with a ten fot pole (translated:any contract starting at more than $6 million per year), he should have took the coin the Clips offered him. His agent fooked up.


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## Wildcats

People need to stop bashing the Nuggets, because they could be one of the NBA's premiere teams very soon.

Personally, I love their plethora of talent, with Hilario, Skita, White, Harrington, and Donnell Harvey.


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## toiletscrubber

I think Kiki gets credit for the white trade, they give up Don Reid and Menk Bateer for a young star!!


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## NugzFan

> Originally posted by <b>Wildcats</b>!
> People need to stop bashing the Nuggets, because they could be one of the NBA's premiere teams very soon.
> 
> Personally, I love their plethora of talent, with Hilario, Skita, White, Harrington, and Donnell Harvey.


:yes: 

and thats just what kiki has acquired so far...wait til hes done with the draft, free agency and maybe another surprise trade or 2.


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## the wall

Trade was definitely not for free.... you gave us a first rd. draft pick & Bateer, which then got us a 2nd round pick. We traded Rodney White for a 1st and 2nd round pick...and White was about 4th on our depth chart at SF. Not too bad for Detroit either...


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## NugzFan

> Originally posted by <b>the wall</b>!
> Trade was definitely not for free.... you gave us a first rd. draft pick & Bateer, which then got us a 2nd round pick. We traded Rodney White for a 1st and 2nd round pick...and White was about 4th on our depth chart at SF. Not too bad for Detroit either...


no he was free.

we gave up a horrible lotto protected pick that you wont see for years and by then itll be 20 something.

bateer = nothing. you dont even have him.

reid = nothing. hurt all year.

white for free.


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## the wall

> we gave up a horrible lotto protected pick that you wont see for years and by then itll be 20 something.


I don't mind that...we did the same thing with Memphis, and now we're getting a top 5 pick. I'm not saying it was bad trade at all, Denver still got the better part of the deal...I just think that giving up a 1st can't be considered getting him for free.


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## NugzFan

> Originally posted by <b>the wall</b>!
> 
> I don't mind that...we did the same thing with Memphis, and now we're getting a top 5 pick. I'm not saying it was bad trade at all, Denver still got the better part of the deal...I just think that giving up a 1st can't be considered getting him for free.


we did the same thing with the clips pick we got from the magic...right now its protected...but by 2005 or 2006 itll be unprotected and maybe a great pick!

what did it cost us? a 2nd round pick! lol!


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## MemphisX

> Originally posted by <b>the wall</b>!
> 
> I don't mind that...we did the same thing with Memphis, and now we're getting a top 5 pick. I'm not saying it was bad trade at all, Denver still got the better part of the deal...I just think that giving up a 1st can't be considered getting him for free.


You will have to be extremely lucky for that pick to be top 5. Might be 8, 9, or 10.


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## NugzFan

last night vs the bucks...

21 pts

7 rebs

6 asts

nice.


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## nicholai

> Originally posted by <b>NugzFan</b>!
> last night vs the bucks...
> 
> 21 pts
> 
> 7 rebs
> 
> 6 asts
> 
> nice.


spectacular. truly hall-of-fame material.


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## NugzFan

> Originally posted by <b>nicholai</b>!
> 
> 
> spectacular. truly hall-of-fame material.


wow, thats a very high comment. i dont know why you are comparing him to hall of famers or anything but fact is, hes good and he was free. :yes:


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## Genjuro

> Originally posted by <b>the wall</b>!
> 
> I don't mind that...we did the same thing with Memphis, and now we're getting a top 5 pick. I'm not saying it was bad trade at all, Denver still got the better part of the deal...I just think that giving up a 1st can't be considered getting him for free.


The pick is Milwaukee's one.


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## Ryoga

Whoever questions Kiki at this point really doesn't understand a damn about how to build a team...

Do people realize from what kind of situation he started?


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## robyg1974

http://www.my.voyager.net/~mikegr/bucks/season-history.html

At that website I found the following information that most of us either did not know or had completely forgotten:

"October 23 [2001] - In a three-team trade, the Bucks trade forward-center Scott Williams and a future first-round draft choice to the Denver Nuggets for forward-center Kevin Willis and center Aleksandar Radojevic. Willis was then traded to the Houston Rockets for Houston's 2002 second-round draft pick. The move clears $3 million in salary cap space, making it possible to sign forward Anthony Mason.

"October 25 - Power forward Anthony Mason is signed to a four-year, $21 million contract. 

"October 29 - Guard Jason Hart and center Aleksandar Radojevic are waived, and Darvin Ham is placed on the injured list by the Bucks to reach the 12-man roster limit."

I remember thinking what a terrible and desperate trade that was at the time from Milwaukee's perspective, and in light of how horribly that team has been ever since Anthony Mason came on board (regardless of whether you think that the Bucks' collapse is Mase's fault or not), the trade is even worse.

See? When you have cap room, this is the sort of trade that you can pull off. When you don't have cap room, and you want to go get somebody you think you need, this is the sort of trade that you must resort to. The Nuggets took on an unwanted contract in Scott Williams, and a year later, they turned that unwanted contract (that is now gone, obviously) into Rodney White. Fantastic trade for Denver, huh?

Anyway, from NBADraft.net, we get the following info:

"Detroit receives a Milwaukee's 2003 first-round pick via Denver (2003 top 18 protected, 2004 top 15 protected, 2005-indefinite top 13 protected. (Rodney White trade 100102) via (Alek Radojevic trade 102201)"

The pick will never be any higher than #14 overall, and Rodney White is almost certainly better than the average #14 overall pick, so yeah, this is a good trade for Denver. Could Detroit have done better here? Well, when you consider the fact that Rodney White would not have gotten an opportunity this year to touch the floor, and probably not next year, either, well, I don't know. I understood Joe Dumars' rationale at the time and I still understand it.

Anyway, there you go, guys. Those of you who didn't know or had forgotten about what pick Denver is getting for Rodney White and how/why/when they got it.

Is Rodney White The Answer at SG for the Nuggets? We may know by the end of the regular season. If White looks like The Answer at SG, then you can forget about all this Corey Maggette talk. I had speculated that Kiki might be interested in trading White for Maggette in a sign-and-trade, but after we've seen what White can do with starter's minutes, I gotta say that White is a much more interesting (and CHEAPER and YOUNGER) prospect here than Maggette. Who will be the third free agent that Kiki gets this summer? We already more or less know that he'll be getting Gilbert Arenas and Michael Olowokandi, but who will be the third guy? With the remaining $6ish mil in cap room?

Re-signing Juwan Howard (at just over the full MLE, which will be the best offer he's going to get) is an option. Lamar Odom probably is NOT an option at $6ish mil, because the Clips will match that deal, that's a bargain for a guy like Odom. Maggette is definitely sign-and-trade material; any $6ish mil offer sheet that he signs will be matched by the Clips. Maggette probably does not want to play for the Clips beyond this season (who would?) if he can get the same amount of money elsewhere, and the Clips don't really want to pay him this kind of money to begin with. HOWEVER, they probably won't just let the guy walk, so they'd match a $6ish mil offer, I think. Rip Hamilton is another guy whose team will match a $6ish mil offer. Jason Terry? Tough call--I think that the Hawks will want to ship this guy off in a sign-and-trade along with an unwanted contract, so my guess is that he and his agent will balk at a straight up $6ish mil offer from Denver (they'll want to get a bit more via a sign-and-trade).

OR, rather than throw that entire $6ish mil at one dude, he may want to get a COUPLE of dudes here. I'm thinking about 1999 draftees who will be restricted free agents. Jumaine Jones? A five-year deal starting at $2.0-$2.5 mil? James Posey? Would the Rockets match a five-year deal starting at $3.0-$3.5 mil? Probably. What about Dion Glover? A five-year deal starting at $2.5-$3.0 mil? Again, the Hawks are having some bigtime financial problems, so I doubt they'd match an offer for Glover (and I doubt he gets many offers).

I think the thing to do is to get Jones and Glover at discount prices rather than bring back Juwan Howard (I mean, come ON, you don't REALLY want Juwan Howard back, DO you? Isn't it time to MOVE ON?). Jones and Glover should be pretty decent bench players (they're definitely an improvement over the likes of Ryan Bowen and Vincent Yarbrough!), they still have some upside (not a lot, but some), they may just need the sort of opportunity that Denver would be willing to give them. And these two guys actually have a fair amount of NBA experience.

Let's say that Denver gets Arenas, Olowokandi, Jones, and Glover. And that they get Darko Milicic with the #2 overall pick (keep yr fingers crossed). They don't have a second round pick this year. Let's also say that they let Juwan Howard, Shammond Williams, Donnell Harvey, Jeff Trepagnier, and Adam Harrington go, and that they waive Predrag Savovic. AND let's say they bring back Junior Harrington and Chris Anderson (both at minimum salary contracts). Here you go:

Starting lineup

PG Gilbert Arenas (40 mpg)
SG Rodney White (36 mpg)
SF Jumaine Jones (24 mpg)
PF Nene Hilario (36 mpg)
C Michael Olowokandi (36 mpg)

Second unit

PG Junior Harrington (8 mpg)
SG Dion Glover (20 mpg)
SF Nikoloz Tskitishvili (16 mpg)
PF Darko Milicic (16 mpg)
C Chris Anderson (8 mpg)

End of the bench (no PT): Ryan Bowen, Vincent Yarbrough

Stashed on the IR: Marcus Camby (be realistic, guys, this guy isn't going to stay healthy for more than 20%-25% of next season), Mystery No-Name Super-Young Free Agent #1, Mystery No-Name Super-Young Free Agent #2


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## R-Star

> Originally posted by <b>nicholai</b>!
> 
> 
> spectacular. truly hall-of-fame material.


Whats your problem may I ask?


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## NugzFan

> Originally posted by <b>Ryoga</b>!
> Whoever questions Kiki at this point really doesn't understand a damn about how to build a team...
> 
> Do people realize from what kind of situation he started?


BRAVO! 

if he signs arenas and say maggette (fair assumption..it COULD happen) he basically did the following trades:

van exel for arenas

raef for maggette

mcdyess for nene

and thats not counting his pick this year, or skita or white or harvey...

the cost for all this? one bad season (this one).


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## NugzFan

good stuff as usual robyg (damn i cant even keep up!). its almost as if you are a nuggets fan you know this **** so well.

however i respectfully disagree on a few things:

1. i still hope he gets maggette. white hasnt proven consistent enough

2. we wont be able to get 3 big FA. arenas wont accept less than 7. im thinking 8. we will have 18-19 to spend total.

3. if we could, id love to bring back juwan. hes earned it. great professionl on and off the court. but not at the expense of good FA.


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## robyg1974

> Originally posted by <b>NugzFan</b>!
> good stuff as usual robyg (damn i cant even keep up!). its almost as if you are a nuggets fan you know this **** so well.


I like teams that do it the right way, so I'm a Nuggets fan these days.


> however i respectfully disagree on a few things:
> 
> 1. i still hope he gets maggette. white hasnt proven consistent enough


What exactly has Corey Maggette done to merit a longterm deal worth $55-$65 mil? Seriously? What has this guy done? I agree that this guy is a talent, that he has upside, but I'd be pretty hesitant about giving this guy a ton of money. Guys like Chauncey Billups, Donyell Marshall, and Matt Harpring all had to settle for the full MLE last summer. Does Maggette have more "upside" than these three guys? Sure he does. Is he better than any of these three guys right now? Of course he's not. So why pay him as much OR MORE than these three guys?

Besides, Rodney White is in the second year of a rookie contract, and he has at LEAST as much "upside" as does Maggette and probably more. I think his emergence means that Maggette will have to look elsewhere if he wants more than the MLE, probably in a sign-and-trade.

Trust me, NugzFan, you don't want Kiki to pay Maggette the kind of money that Maggette is going to want from Denver.


> 2. we wont be able to get 3 big FA. arenas wont accept less than 7. im thinking 8. we will have 18-19 to spend total.


Again, there are only a handful of teams with cap room this summer. The Clippers won't spend any of their money on anybody's free agents besides their own. The Spurs will spend their money on Brad Miller. The Jazz will go get Andre Miller and either max out Elton Brand or bring back Karl Malone. That leaves Denver and Miami. Miami will only have around $6 mil in cap room, so this means that the best offer that Arenas will get is a longterm deal starting at $6.0-$6.5 mil.

Olowokandi faces exactly the same situation as Arenas, and will end up getting the same longterm deal starting at $6.0-$6.5 mil.

After Kiki gets these two guys for a combined $12-$13 mil, he'll still have around $7-$8 mil in cap room. He'll have to spend a total of $1 mil to bring back Chris Anderson and Lorinza Harrington ($500,000 each). He'll also have to shell out about $3 mil on Darko Milicic (I had forgotten about having to pay for Milicic earlier, that changes things). So, NugzFan, you're right, they won't be able to afford another guy for more than MLE money. In fact, they won't even have MLE money, they'll only have $3-$4 mil, which won't be enough to get a Jason Terry, Corey Maggette, or Juwan Howard.

So forget about what I said earlier about getting Jumaine Jones AND Dion Glover, because they'll only be able to get ONE of these two dudes. Jones will probably be a bit cheaper than Glover, and the Cavs definitely aren't interested in bringing back Jones, so yeah, go get Jones for $2 mil.

This will leave Kiki with $1-$2 mil in cap space, and maybe he can pull off another trade with a team desperate to avoid the luxury tax. That's what he did with Orlando last summer (remember that deal where they got a future Clippers 1st round pick and Don Reid for a 2nd round pick?), and who knows, maybe he can do it again.

Another way that Kiki may want to use this remaining cap space is to pawn off Marcus Camby for a slightly more expensive player (but one whose contract EXPIRES at the end of the 2003-04 season). In other words, instead of trading Camby's $6-$7 mil deal for another guy's $6-$7 mil deal, he can trade Camby for a guy making $7-$9 mil. Possibilities: Ron Mercer (Indiana), Greg Ostertag (Utah), Glen Rice (Houston), Hakeem Olajuwon and Lindsay Hunter (back to Toronto?), Charlie Ward and Travis Knight (back to New York?), Tom Gugliotta (Phoenix). Phoenix would probably be more interested than any of those other five teams in trading for Camby. Indiana and Utah will want to hold onto these two guys so they can get the luxury tax relief and cap space in the summer of 2004, and going back to New York probably wouldn't really fly. Houston and Toronto are in the same situation as Phoenix--they are trying to win not only in the future but also NOW, their payroll situation is kind of a mess so they're still 2-3 years away from having any cap room. Teams like Phoenix, Houston, and Toronto really have no choice but to trade worthless players whose contracts are expiring (Gugliotta, Rice, Olajuwon) for immediate help. Players like Marcus Camby.

Look for Denver to pad Camby's stats over the final ten or so games of the season and then try to trade him to one of those three teams (Phoenix, Houston, and Toronto) this summer. This is the best possible thing for the Nuggets to do with Marcus Camby.


> 3. if we could, id love to bring back juwan. hes earned it. great professionl on and off the court. but not at the expense of good FA.


Again, they won't be able to get him if they get Arenas and Olowokandi, which is just as well.


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## NugzFan

> Originally posted by <b>robyg1974</b>!
> 
> What exactly has Corey Maggette done to merit a longterm deal worth $55-$65 mil? Seriously? What has this guy done? I agree that this guy is a talent, that he has upside, but I'd be pretty hesitant about giving this guy a ton of money. Guys like Chauncey Billups, Donyell Marshall, and Matt Harpring all had to settle for the full MLE last summer. Does Maggette have more "upside" than these three guys? Sure he does. Is he better than any of these three guys right now? Of course he's not. So why pay him as much OR MORE than these three guys?


yeah but hes restricted. sterling would match an MLE type deal in a second. gotta overpay a little.



> Besides, Rodney White is in the second year of a rookie contract, and he has at LEAST as much "upside" as does Maggette and probably more. I think his emergence means that Maggette will have to look elsewhere if he wants more than the MLE, probably in a sign-and-trade.


but i think we can get both.



> Trust me, NugzFan, you don't want Kiki to pay Maggette the kind of money that Maggette is going to want from Denver.


but if he does ill be happy.



> Again, there are only a handful of teams with cap room this summer. The Clippers won't spend any of their money on anybody's free agents besides their own. The Spurs will spend their money on Brad Miller. The Jazz will go get Andre Miller and either max out Elton Brand or bring back Karl Malone. That leaves Denver and Miami. Miami will only have around $6 mil in cap room, so this means that the best offer that Arenas will get is a longterm deal starting at $6.0-$6.5 mil.


i think the spurs will also target kidd, oneal and maybe arenas.

utah can have miller for all i care!



> Olowokandi faces exactly the same situation as Arenas, and will end up getting the same longterm deal starting at $6.0-$6.5 mil.


he might be worth that. good size and his attitude will improve on a new team.



> After Kiki gets these two guys for a combined $12-$13 mil, he'll still have around $7-$8 mil in cap room. He'll have to spend a total of $1 mil to bring back Chris Anderson and Lorinza Harrington ($500,000 each). He'll also have to shell out about $3 mil on Darko Milicic (I had forgotten about having to pay for Milicic earlier, that changes things). So, NugzFan, you're right, they won't be able to afford another guy for more than MLE money. In fact, they won't even have MLE money, they'll only have $3-$4 mil, which won't be enough to get a Jason Terry, Corey Maggette, or Juwan Howard.


you are assuming arenas for 6 mill though. NOT A CHANCE. at least 7, probably 8+. and hes worth it. 

andersen can go. dont like him anymore. 

the draft pick is already included in our draft estimates. we have 18-19 INCLUDING our top 3 pick. 



> So forget about what I said earlier about getting Jumaine Jones AND Dion Glover, because they'll only be able to get ONE of these two dudes. Jones will probably be a bit cheaper than Glover, and the Cavs definitely aren't interested in bringing back Jones, so yeah, go get Jones for $2 mil.


dont care about those 2. we can live without more role players.



> This will leave Kiki with $1-$2 mil in cap space, and maybe he can pull off another trade with a team desperate to avoid the luxury tax. That's what he did with Orlando last summer (remember that deal where they got a future Clippers 1st round pick and Don Reid for a 2nd round pick?), and who knows, maybe he can do it again.


yeah...its always good to have some leftover. 



> Another way that Kiki may want to use this remaining cap space is to pawn off Marcus Camby for a slightly more expensive player (but one whose contract EXPIRES at the end of the 2003-04 season). In other words, instead of trading Camby's $6-$7 mil deal for another guy's $6-$7 mil deal, he can trade Camby for a guy making $7-$9 mil. Possibilities: Ron Mercer (Indiana), Greg Ostertag (Utah), Glen Rice (Houston), Hakeem Olajuwon and Lindsay Hunter (back to Toronto?), Charlie Ward and Travis Knight (back to New York?), Tom Gugliotta (Phoenix).


a big NO for mercer, and ostertag. the rest are ok but i think id rather keep camby.


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## robyg1974

NugzFan:

I'm pretty sure we are understanding each other loud and clear here, but just in case:

1) If it's going to take more than the MLE to get an enigma like Corey Maggette, I'm telling you, you don't want him. Take a look at his stats this year, they're not that good. And I'm tired of hearing excuses about why this guy isn't great or that guy isn't great. If a guy is great, he doesn't let petty stuff get in the way. I heard excuses for Tim Thomas for years, and I really don't have much of a reason to believe that Corey Maggette will ever really be any better than Tim Thomas. Trust me, you don't want Maggette at more than the MLE.

2) This whole deal about Jason Kidd going to the Spurs is a myth that has been perpetuated by Kidd's agent (so as to frighten the Nets into giving him a longterm max deal) and the naive NBA media (who would rather think about how cool it would be to see Kidd and Tim Duncan together on the same team than economic reality). The Spurs have a DIRT-CHEAP PG in Tony Parker, so they don't need Kidd. What they need is a C, which is what they'll go get. I doubt that they'll be able to get either Jermaine O'Neal or Elton Brand this summer, and besides, I think Brad Miller has been their guy all along (at least ever since everybody with any sense realized what a terrible idea giving Michael Olowokandi a big, fat longterm contract would be). They also have no need for Gilbert Arenas. They will spend the bulk of their cap room on Brad Miller, so they won't be able to make Arenas a decent offer.

3) I keep repeating myself here, and NugzFan, you keep not hearing me. There will only be two teams out there willing and able to give Arenas more than the MLE:  Denver and Miami. Miami only has about $6 mil worth of cap room. This means that Arenas's market value has been set at $6.0-$6.5 mil. Why would Kiki give him $7-$8 mil? He doesn't need to, and $6.0-$6.5 mil is more money than A 20-YEAR-OLD SECOND ROUND PICK like Arenas ever dreamed of! Seriously, there is no need to overpay, it's 2003, not 1999. In 1999, teams would overpay for everybody. Now, nobody has cap room, and everybody is scared to death of the luxury tax. Seriously, why would Arenas get more money from the Nuggets than Rashard Lewis got from the Sonics last summer?

4) Chris Anderson is not a bad deal for $500,000. You are REQUIRED by the LEAGUE to have a 12-man roster. The least amount of money that a player can make in a one-year deal is $500,000. So why not bring back a big guy who already knows the coach and the system and his teammates? You're going to have to spend that $500,000 on somebody, so it may as well be Chris Anderson!

5) A Ron Mercer or a Greg Ostertag would only be acquired because of their expiring contracts. Marcus Camby still has 2-3 years left on his deal, and that dude is NOT going to EVER be even CLOSE to 100% for more than 20-25 games/year. So why not dump him on somebody desperate for a big guy? By acquiring a Mercer or an Ostertag, you'll be able to have a fair amount of cap room NEXT summer, TOO! Wouldn't you rather have cap room in the summer of 2004 than 2-3 more years of watching Camby sit out for 2/3 of the season and get hurt 17 minutes into his first game back? You know? QUESTION: How many games this year has Camby played more than 30 minutes? ANSWER: One! ONE GAME! Are you KIDDING ME? If you could dump this guy on somebody, why WOULDN'T you? ONE GAME!

6) Dion Glover and Jumaine Jones, I mean, no doubt, these guys aren't great, but they're decent, and they are awfully good bargains at $2-$3 mil. The Nuggets need PLAYERS! When a team wins 15-20 ballgames, that means one of two things: a) their players suck, or b) their head coach sucks. Jeff Bzdelik clearly does not suck, the problem is the players. The reason you're winning 15-20 ballgames is because you've been giving major minutes to guys like Lorinza Harrington and Ryan Bowen and Donnell Harvey and Vincent Yarbrough. It's one thing for a Harrington or a Bowen to come off the bench and give yr starters a breather every now and then, but you can DEFINITELY do better than that, and if you CAN do better, you SHOULD. Jumaine Jones is instant offense off the bench, he's still got a bit of upside (he turned 24 in February), he's just not being utilized properly by Cleveland because they do not consider him to be a part of their team's future (mainly because they have spent a lot of money and some awfully high draft picks on guys who play the same position as Jones). Dion Glover has been playing 35-40 minutes/game for Atlanta this year, he's already not bad, plus he's still got a little bit of upside (he's still just 24 years old). Dion Glover is definitely a major and I mean MAJOR upgrade over Bowen and Yarbrough. Keep in mind that Bowen and Yarbrough would not even make most teams' 12-man rosters.

Anyway, it's going to be fun seeing what ACTUALLY happens this summer with Denver. They are definitely going to be the talk of the league in July-August.


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## NugzFan

> Originally posted by <b>robyg1974</b>!
> NugzFan:
> 
> I'm pretty sure we are understanding each other loud and clear here, but just in case:
> 
> 1) If it's going to take more than the MLE to get an enigma like Corey Maggette, I'm telling you, you don't want him. Take a look at his stats this year, they're not that good. And I'm tired of hearing excuses about why this guy isn't great or that guy isn't great. If a guy is great, he doesn't let petty stuff get in the way. I heard excuses for Tim Thomas for years, and I really don't have much of a reason to believe that Corey Maggette will ever really be any better than Tim Thomas. Trust me, you don't want Maggette at more than the MLE.


ive seen him play alot and i think he fits perfectly with our team. 6 mill is worth it. 



> 2) This whole deal about Jason Kidd going to the Spurs is a myth that has been perpetuated by Kidd's agent (so as to frighten the Nets into giving him a longterm max deal) and the naive NBA media (who would rather think about how cool it would be to see Kidd and Tim Duncan together on the same team than economic reality). The Spurs have a DIRT-CHEAP PG in Tony Parker, so they don't need Kidd. What they need is a C, which is what they'll go get. I doubt that they'll be able to get either Jermaine O'Neal or Elton Brand this summer, and besides, I think Brad Miller has been their guy all along (at least ever since everybody with any sense realized what a terrible idea giving Michael Olowokandi a big, fat longterm contract would be). They also have no need for Gilbert Arenas. They will spend the bulk of their cap room on Brad Miller, so they won't be able to make Arenas a decent offer.


true, i bet they go after oneal first...maybe odom too. id like to see them sign kidd though. 

how can you say they dont need arenas? 



> 3) I keep repeating myself here, and NugzFan, you keep not hearing me. There will only be two teams out there willing and able to give Arenas more than the MLE: Denver and Miami. Miami only has about $6 mil worth of cap room. This means that Arenas's market value has been set at $6.0-$6.5 mil. Why would Kiki give him $7-$8 mil? He doesn't need to, and $6.0-$6.5 mil is more money than A 20-YEAR-OLD SECOND ROUND PICK like Arenas ever dreamed of! Seriously, there is no need to overpay, it's 2003, not 1999. In 1999, teams would overpay for everybody. Now, nobody has cap room, and everybody is scared to death of the luxury tax. Seriously, why would Arenas get more money from the Nuggets than Rashard Lewis got from the Sonics last summer?


but what you dont realize is arenas is loyal to the warriors so itll take more than just the MLE. any other FA and hes ours in a second. but itll take a little more money now. i bet he takes 5 mill from gsw over 6 mill from us. hes not ONLY about the money. plus hes worth more than 6 mill. easily.



> 4) Chris Anderson is not a bad deal for $500,000. You are REQUIRED by the LEAGUE to have a 12-man roster. The least amount of money that a player can make in a one-year deal is $500,000. So why not bring back a big guy who already knows the coach and the system and his teammates? You're going to have to spend that $500,000 on somebody, so it may as well be Chris Anderson!


normally yes...but have you seen him play. hes hurting this team with his erratic and crazy play. he is so keen on making highlite reels that he misses 2-3 easy shots per game. instead of laying it in, he goes for insane dunks...and misses! and he cannot hit Js, yet takes them. he cannot hit fts at all. hes hurting us.



> 5) A Ron Mercer or a Greg Ostertag would only be acquired because of their expiring contracts. Marcus Camby still has 2-3 years left on his deal, and that dude is NOT going to EVER be even CLOSE to 100% for more than 20-25 games/year. So why not dump him on somebody desperate for a big guy? By acquiring a Mercer or an Ostertag, you'll be able to have a fair amount of cap room NEXT summer, TOO! Wouldn't you rather have cap room in the summer of 2004 than 2-3 more years of watching Camby sit out for 2/3 of the season and get hurt 17 minutes into his first game back? You know? QUESTION: How many games this year has Camby played more than 30 minutes? ANSWER: One! ONE GAME! Are you KIDDING ME? If you could dump this guy on somebody, why WOULDN'T you? ONE GAME!


dont care - hate them both! if we can dump camby (which im not against), our cap space next summer wont be that much. we might be like miami with barely over the MLE but there will be a ton of competition next year. 



> 6) Dion Glover and Jumaine Jones, I mean, no doubt, these guys aren't great, but they're decent, and they are awfully good bargains at $2-$3 mil. The Nuggets need PLAYERS!


those two are hardly upgrades over what we might have next year. we have plenty of role players. not a concern.



> When a team wins 15-20 ballgames, that means one of two things: a) their players suck, or b) their head coach sucks. Jeff Bzdelik clearly does not suck, the problem is the players. The reason you're winning 15-20 ballgames is because you've been giving major minutes to guys like Lorinza Harrington and Ryan Bowen and Donnell Harvey and Vincent Yarbrough.


and id still rather give minutes to them over glover and jones - are they winning on teams with MORE TALENT? nope!



> It's one thing for a Harrington or a Bowen to come off the bench and give yr starters a breather every now and then, but you can DEFINITELY do better than that, and if you CAN do better, you SHOULD.


and we will. those guys wont start next year most likely. think about it - if we get 2 key FA and a top pick thats another 100 minutes used up. 240 minutes total in a game, so where are those 100 minutes coming from? we dont need jones and glover.



> Anyway, it's going to be fun seeing what ACTUALLY happens this summer with Denver. They are definitely going to be the talk of the league in July-August.


oh man i cant wait...its gonna be the most fun summer ive ever experienced as a nuggets fan.

may = nba lotto
june = nba draft
july = nba free agency
september = um...celebreate great offseason i hope
october = preseason
november = nba season!


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## NugzFan

here look - if we get arenas, mags and darko (I WISH!)...

pg; start arenas with harrington or williams backup

sg; start mags with yarbrough backup

sf; start white with skita and bowen backup

pf; start nene with harvey backup

cn; start darko with FA pickup backup (or elson)

could use some help up front, unless we keep andersen...kiki likes him (i dont know why)


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## Genjuro

I think San Antonio will have money to sign another player. They may have about $15 mil. taking into account the first round pick and the new Duncan's contract. If Miller gets $8 mil., they still have $7 mil. to pay somebody else (maybe Maggette himself, although not that much money). But maybe I'm wrong, I mean, how much could get Miller?.

I agree with NugzFan that Arenas will get more than $6 mil. He will threat any team offering him just $6 mil. with remaining in Oakland (and it could be true). I think he will get between $7 mil. and $8 mil. And he could get more money than Rashard Lewis because Lewis had no more options. No team could offer him more than the MLE, so he had to accept Seattle's offer.


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## BEEZ

> Originally posted by <b>NugzFan</b>!
> here look - if we get arenas, mags and darko (I WISH!)...
> 
> pg; start arenas with harrington or williams backup
> 
> sg; start mags with yarbrough backup
> 
> sf; start white with skita and bowen backup
> 
> pf; start nene with harvey backup
> 
> cn; start darko with FA pickup backup (or elson)
> 
> could use some help up front, unless we keep andersen...kiki likes him (i dont know why)


I think what all people in General are forgetting is that just because Darko is 7'0 and 245 doesnt mean hes a Center YET. I honestly feel hes a PF


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## Tom

Now if we can only get Ricky Davis one!:laugh:


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## NugzFan

> Originally posted by <b>BEEZ</b>!
> 
> 
> I think what all people in General are forgetting is that just because Darko is 7'0 and 245 doesnt mean hes a Center YET. I honestly feel hes a PF


yeah probably but wiht the lack of true good centers, i think a nene-darko frontcourt could work out.

however, it would require insane luck that the nuggets dont have. we pick 3rd at the highest...if we are lucky that day.


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## Tom

the man to your left had a triple double his rookie year as well!


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## nicholai

> Originally posted by <b>Tom</b>!
> the man to your left had a triple double his rookie year as well!


that's awfully discouraging for rodney white fans to hear.


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## Tom

> Originally posted by <b>nicholai</b>!
> 
> 
> that's awfully discouraging for rodney white fans to hear.


Rodney will never average 16.4points and 8.4 rebounds in any year of his NBA career. Give Kenyon some love!


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## NugzFan

> Originally posted by <b>nicholai</b>!
> 
> 
> that's awfully discouraging for rodney white fans to hear.


wow your hatred for rodney white (pistons fan perhaps? i dunno) is really blinding you to things like facts and intelligence. you basically just ripped kenyon martin, undeservingly too.


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## NugzFan

> Originally posted by <b>Tom</b>!
> 
> 
> Rodney will never average 16.4points and 8.4 rebounds in any year of his NBA career. Give Kenyon some love!


white will never get 8 rpg but 16 ppg he can. maybe not with denver but somewhere for sure.


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## BobbyDigital32

Suppose the Nuggets do get Darko. Will he actually have an imediate impact? I doubt he's gonna come in the league and be like Pao Gasol. I think hes a project like Nickoloz Tskitishvilli, but then again what do I know? Maybe you guys know something about Darko I dont.


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## Genjuro

> Originally posted by <b>BobbyDigital32</b>!
> Suppose the Nuggets do get Darko. Will he actually have an imediate impact? I doubt he's gonna come in the league and be like Pao Gasol. I think hes a project like Nickoloz Tskitishvilli, but then again what do I know? Maybe you guys know something about Darko I dont.


The last season Gasol played in Europe, he was the MVP of the finals in the Spanish League, one of the top leagues in Europe.

The last season Tskitishvili played in Europe, he was a bench warmer in Treviso, Italy (I mean, he played something like 4 or 5 mpg), but again in a really strong league and his team, like Gasol's one, won the championship.

Meanwhile, Darko is a very important player in his team. But the Yugoslavian league where he plays is significantly worse than Spanish and Italian ones, and I think the team where he plays is not one of the best of his league.

I have never seen Darko playing, but I think he could be a good player in his rookie season. Not as good as Gasol was, but way better than Tskitishvili. Something like 12 ppg and 7 rpg if he gets playing time. Anyway, he is much younger than Gasol was in his rookie season, so we shouldn't expect an inmediate impact.


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## Ryoga

Robyg, it looks like you pay a lot of attention on cap issues! Very good!

1) Maybe Denver would need something more than 6M$ to sign Arenas, otherwhise he could pull a rashard lewis and sign for another two years for the Warriors. But there have been a lot issues with Musselman, I don't really know what his feelings about the franchise are.

2) Maggette could be a very good gamble, with a deal starting at 6M$ but no more than 4 years long.

3) I don't think that it would be a bargain for the Spurs to sign Brand for big money, what would he really bring that Malik doesn't? Imo the Best fit for them would be Nesterovic, probably available for somewhere around 6-7 M$ a year. On offence he can hit the mid-range jumper, while he's one of the best post and help defenders in the league. I agree that it wouldn't be a great idea to sign Kidd when you already have a parker-ginobili (who will be in the same situation arenas is now, in two years) BC for the future, and the possibility to fill other positions.

4) what do you think of Krause's job?


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## NugzFan

defintely do not compare darko to skita. like people said darko is far more ready - liek gasol was.


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## pizzoni

*Darko*

Nice subject,

People, Darko will be fine cuz he play in a Good League, not Great but good, and play against good teams in europeans championships. 

He is strong, not Nene strong, but strong if all the reports is correct, But he is light years ahead of Nene in skills.

I´m from Brazil and Nene haven´t play in half of the important games Darko has, before NBA.

So, I think he will be fine, so will Skita, if he hit hard the weight room this summer, like nene did before de NBA.


Ps. And keep real, let think if thing worst as possible. whom denver will be able to get?
Okafor, Anthony, Bosh? Let just hope it isn´t Kaman

Ps. In early second round maybe they Draft, a better Pg prospect than Harrington. A good one is Leandro Barbosa from Brazil, which will help Nene. Maybe someome like Duron or another good prospect.


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## NugzFan

14/8/2 tonight. he is really starting to put up the #s!


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