# Wow - today's Insider article - Inside Hoops Gym w/Iggy, Deng, Harris, and Livingston



## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

Today's article is one of the reasons you guys should all pop for Insider. I know not all of you like Ford, but this is great stuff, IMO.

Ford was granted access to Hoops the Gym to see the workouts of several top draft candidates - Iguodala, Deng, Devon Harris, and Shaun Livingston. Howard arrives today and his workout was not reviewed, but he said the four players he saw were the four best prospects he has seen this year.

Iguodala 

- been working out w/Grover for two months
- body looks great, conditioning is great now
- 6'11" wingspan, great lateral quickness
- shot is improving, mechanics look good
- hit 25 of 40 pro 3 pointers
- _Grover says he has a "great, great work ethic" and that he loves working in the gym_
- Grover also says he has off the charts athleticism

Deng

- kept himself in very good shape at Duke before he got to ATTACK w/Grover (this was his first day)
- Iguodala is in better shape but he's been working w/Grover for two monts
- Deng was in good enoug shape that Grover put him through a very hard workout right away
- he is very big w/very long arms
- he shot the ball extremely well
- shot 25 3's in 37 attempts after tiring workout, and he was shooting better before he tired
- his post footwork is very good
- _Grover says he is much more athletic than he thought he would be_
- _Grover also says he will be explosive with the right training_
- _Grover also says he has a great attitude, and a lot of people can't push himself like Deng did the first day_

I'm extremely happy with both reports on Deng and Iguodala. I'm not surprised to find that Deng is more athletic than anticipated. It's also fantastic to hear that Iguodala has proven at least to Grover that he has a great work ethic. Take that Lute! Iggy is stepping and, and his shot is improving. His weaknesses shrink by the moment.

Being that Josh Smith will probably not be an option for us, I'm really excited about both of these guys. If we trade down for Iggy, we better damn well know we're going to get him.

More on Devon Harris and Livingston later. REALLY intersting stuff.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

OK, I want Iggy and Deng on our wings.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mikedc</b>!
> OK, I want Iggy and Deng on our wings.


Are you willing to trade Curry to the Bobcats or Wizards to get him? Something like that would have to be done, perhaps hoping that Iguodala would be available at 5. Trading Hinrich is just not going to happen, and Chandler won't have the value to get where we need to go to get the two of them.


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Darius Miles Davis</b>!
> 
> 
> Are you willing to trade Curry to the Bobcats or Wizards to get him? Something like that would have to be done, perhaps hoping that Iguodala would be available at 5. Trading Hinrich is just not going to happen, and Chandler won't have the value to get where we need to go to get the two of them.


I'm not saying I would make the move but it is intriguing. With Hinrich, that forms a hell of a long athletic defensive backcourt. This would also move Tyson to his more natural center position. And if our franchise can do anything it's draft PFs...


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## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

Thank you very much DMD. Sounds like we can't go wrong with either guy here. Both are studs and will do a great job for us on the wings. Unfortunately Mike we will just get one of them. Either one will be fine though.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

Here's some info from the rest of the article. Read on.

*Devon Harris*

- been working out with Grover for 2 weeks
- soft touch on his jumper
- shot 25 3’s in 35 attempts. Damn.
- has added 10lbs, up to 175
- very intelligent
- _Grover says he’s faster then TJ Ford. Double damn!_
- _GS (Grover Says from here on out) he’s got a chip on his shoulder and he’s up for any challenge_
- _GS he will make an immediate impact_

*Shaun Livingston*

- Guys, there’s a picture of Livinston, and he has a completely different physique than all the pictures we have seen. His arms are toned and cut. I wish I could post the picture, but that’s not allowed. He’s up to 189lbs, that’s 20lbs heavier than he was at the end of his season.
- incredible ball handling as advertised
- Ford thinks he has the highest ceiling in the draft except for maybe Howard or his guy Pavel
- hit 25 for 42 on 3’s
- he has a 6’11” wingspan, huge hands, and huge dexterous fingers
- _GS he is mix between Magic Johnson and George Gervin_
- _GS he is a pure point guard_
- _GS he is the one guy in this draft that people will pay to see_

Good stuff on Harris, but Grover was flat raving about Livingston. 

I’m beginning to think this draft is going to have more than its share of stars.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Basghetti80</b>!
> Thank you very much DMD. Sounds like we can't go wrong with either guy here. Both are studs and will do a great job for us on the wings. Unfortunately Mike we will just get one of them. Either one will be fine though.


I'm somewhat concerned that we are going to trade the pick to get a veteran that won't match what either one of these guys will do in the pros. 

My other fear is that we trade down for Iguodala and then someone picks him in front of us.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

I can't wait to go after EVERYONE on this site that said Livingston will be a bust...

I will do so intensely (to put it lightly)...

BTW none of these 3 pt shooting stats are wowing me...

Is it safe to assume this was just shooting like you would do in your driveway?

Last week Pavel shot 18 for 25 3's off the dribble with Johan Petro's hands/arms in his face...

Martynas shot something like 22 for 25...

Those are 7'5 and 7'3 guys respectively...

That's impressive.


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## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

Good point about maybe trading down too far for Iggy. I think it will come down to having to choose which guy we want most at #3. I think both will get drafted top 5 so we will have to choose whatever guy we want most at #3. That guy for me is Deng but if someone trades up to #2 to get him then that throws everything into array because Howard will be there at #3 and that presents a whole new set of problems. Bottomline for me is Paxson stays at #3 and selects Luol Deng.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Darius Miles Davis</b>!
> 
> 
> Are you willing to trade Curry to the Bobcats or Wizards to get him? Something like that would have to be done, perhaps hoping that Iguodala would be available at 5. Trading Hinrich is just not going to happen, and Chandler won't have the value to get where we need to go to get the two of them.


Not sure. I think I'd trade Hinrich to the Wiz or the Bobcats.

Well, pretty sure I wouldn't trade Curry but that's really hard to say. He'll probably end up sucking again and I'll be disappointed again, but it's just so hard to look at him and Chandler and want to trade one of them. You just know it'll bite us in the ***. Hinrich I think I'd trade for Iggy at this point. I think the Wiz and possibly the Bobcats go for that. 

Chandler, I could see him maybe having value to the Wizards... a Chandler/Kwame frontline would conceivably be pretty scary. Also, if Atlanta doesn't get Howard and Iggy is still there at 5, I'm not sure they wouldn't take him over Smith.


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## onetenthlag (Jul 29, 2003)

*Deng vs. Iguodala*

Maybe this should be its own thread, but (just out of curiousity) would you want Deng or Iguodala (irrelevant of where they get picked)?

IT seems like Iguodala at the 3 might not be as ridiculous as originally proposed. If he adds a jumper two or three years into the league, we could be looking at a guy with more skills than richard jefferson in NJ.

Personally, I think the Bulls would be better off with Iguodala (especially if they can draft him further down in Round 1). He gives them the hyper-athletic presence at the 2 or 3 and adds a shut down defensive presence against most teams' 2 or 3. If Iguodala can slash and finish at the rim, he'd be a perfect fit.

Deng seems like more of a post presence at the 3. He can take smaller 3's into the post to score. I think that he won't drive by many 3's in the league (he might be more athletic than expected, but I just don't see him beating artest, marion, etc. off the dribble).

The question then becomes whether or not the Bulls really need a post presence at the 3 (Deng) or a guy that will be out on the wing (Iguodala). I think Iguodala makes the better choice (although his lack of consistent outside shooting is a concern).

The only other variable here is Crawford. If the Bulls resign him to play the 2, can Iguodala be a full-time 3 on that team? I think that Deng could be, but I'm not sold on a 6'5" Crawford at the 2 and a 6'6" Iguodala at the 3.

Please reply with your opinions on this...thanks.


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## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

I am on the Deng bandwagon as everyone knows. Personally I am being to warm bigtime on Iguodala though. I would be very happy with either. Basically if we get Deng I want a veteran SG in free agency to go along with him. I am not a fan of a Crawford/Deng wing duo. As for Iggy I would not play him as a starting SF. Sure he can slide over there some but I would put him at SG and try to get a 6'9 sweet shooting type SF like a Dunleavy,Peja,Hedo,etc type.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>C.C.C.P</b>!
> 
> 
> I'm not saying I would make the move but it is intriguing. With Hinrich, that forms a hell of a long athletic defensive backcourt. This would also move Tyson to his more natural center position. And if our franchise can do anything it's draft PFs...


Now if we did this, then I'd like to trade for a veteran power forward like Juwan Howard. His contract is a bit too long, so I think the Magic would be willing to part with him.

Pippen for Juwan Howard works. I suppose you could work some kind of S and T, Crawford for Kurt Thomas, but that would not make me happy. Crawford is probably going to be elsewhere.

Hinrich
Iguodala
Deng 
Juwan Howard
Chandler

Hmmm.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

*Re: Deng vs. Iguodala*



> Originally posted by <b>onetenthlag</b>!
> Maybe this should be its own thread, but (just out of curiousity) would you want Deng or Iguodala (irrelevant of where they get picked)?
> 
> IT seems like Iguodala at the 3 might not be as ridiculous as originally proposed. If he adds a jumper two or three years into the league, we could be looking at a guy with more skills than richard jefferson in NJ.
> ...


Iguodala was measured by the Wizards as 6'7" in shoes, and he was referred to at that height in a Sun Times article after his Bulls workout. If we're not sure what we're going to do with Crawford at the time of the pick, Iguodala may be the perfect pick as a versital 2-3.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

*Re: Re: Deng vs. Iguodala*



> Originally posted by <b>Darius Miles Davis</b>!
> 
> 
> Iguodala was measured by the Wizards as 6'7" in shoes, and he was referred to at that height in a Sun Times article after his Bulls workout. If we're not sure what we're going to do with Crawford at the time of the pick, Iguodala may be the perfect pick as a versital 2-3.


The Wiz also had J.R. Smith as 6'8...

We'll see what everyone really is this week...


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Deng vs. Iguodala*



> Originally posted by <b>arenas809</b>!
> 
> 
> The Wiz also had J.R. Smith as 6'8...
> ...


Yeah, they might have some f'd up yardsticks. I'm looking forward to the real heights.


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Darius Miles Davis</b>!
> 
> 
> Now if we did this, then I'd like to trade for a veteran power forward like Juwan Howard. His contract is a bit too long, so I think the Magic would be willing to part with him.
> ...


People would say that Pax is just buying time; aka Krause's Brand/ Tyson swap. But, stars win championships. The more I think about trading Curry trade the more I feel it's the way to go. Having two young centers is a luxury this crappy team can't afford. Tyson does not have a wing game, and may never develop range. Maybe it's time to give up and move him to his more natural postion...


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## bullet (Jul 1, 2003)

Thanks DMD great stuff.

I can't say myself which one I'd prefer but I guess I'd be happy with any of them , they can really help us at the wing.


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## ShakeTiller (Oct 13, 2003)

> Hinrich I think I'd trade for Iggy at this point. I think the Wiz and possibly the Bobcats go for that.


I don't know why the Wizards would go for that. They brought in Hinrich, Hayes and Blake last year to work out and decided they wanted to go with Hayes because they could get more or less the same player as Hinrich in Blake in the second round. Then, they signed Gilbert Arenas. Arenas, Stackhouse, Hughes, Dixon -- I don't see anybody trading a high lottery pick for a guard that would be fifth on the depth chart.


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## dkg1 (May 31, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Deng vs. Iguodala*



> Originally posted by <b>arenas809</b>!
> 
> 
> The Wiz also had J.R. Smith as 6'8...
> ...


Arenas, not to change the subject and hijack this thread, but do you still feel Deng will not be there for the Bulls at #3?


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Deng vs. Iguodala*



> Originally posted by <b>dkg1</b>!
> 
> 
> Arenas, not to change the subject and hijack this thread, but do you still feel Deng will not be there for the Bulls at #3?


It's definitely a possibility...

We could lose Q this summer and Deng would fill a need...

Plus we've had some good luck with the Dukies...

As a Clips fan though I rather have Livingston or Josh Smith.

We're looking at Pavel pretty hard right now though....


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## dkg1 (May 31, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Deng vs. Iguodala*



> Originally posted by <b>arenas809</b>!
> 
> 
> It's definitely a possibility...
> ...


The Clips are a tough team to figure out, especially considering the fact that there is not a point guard in this draft who is ready to contribute right now. They seem pretty solid at every other position so I could see them either trading down or picking the best available player. Whether they see Deng being the BAP remains to be seen.


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## JRose5 (May 4, 2003)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Deng vs. Iguodala*

I've been impressed with Livingston for awhile, especially now that he's added 20 pounds, but is there any chance the Bulls grab him?
With Hinrich, we're set at PG, but you gotta draft the talent. And he s pretty good sized, would there be any chance a backcourt with him and Hinrich would work?

Arenas, or anyone else, d you think the Clips could pick up Livingston over Pavel, Deng and Howard/Okafor (whoever doesn't go #1)?


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## JRose5 (May 4, 2003)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Deng vs. Iguodala*

edit: double post, sorry


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Deng vs. Iguodala*

I think the worst thing that happens to us in this draft is that we don't pick up any quality wing talent. I'm fearing Emeka dropping to us and then we don't pull a trade of one of our big men for a really good wing player. Then we go into the season with a familiarly unbalanced roster.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Deng vs. Iguodala*



> Originally posted by <b>dkg1</b>!
> 
> 
> The Clips are a tough team to figure out, especially considering the fact that there is not a point guard in this draft who is ready to contribute right now. They seem pretty solid at every other position so I could see them either trading down or picking the best available player. Whether they see Deng being the BAP remains to be seen.


The thing is we've never traded down...

So history says we won't...

We have a nice team, and IMO we're a player away from being a really nice team...

Injuries killed us last year...

That and not having an effective PG, or should I say ballhandlers.

PG is the most overrated position in the game...

I much rather be a team like Miami that has 4 guys on the floor at all times that can run the break and initiate the offense, than a team like ours that has a guy or 2 that dominate the ball and maybe average a bunch of assists.

Q and Mags are not great ballhandlers so it hurts us to not have a PG that could do that.

I'd like JC or Livingston to be our PG next year...

I could live with Telfair, but that better mean we traded with Atlanta and got 6 and 17 which means we go Smith at 6 and Telfair at 17, or Jameer Nelson if Cleveland decides to take Telfair at 10.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Deng vs. Iguodala*



> Originally posted by <b>JRose5</b>!
> I've been impressed with Livingston for awhile, especially now that he's added 20 pounds, but is there any chance the Bulls grab him?
> With Hinrich, we're set at PG, but you gotta draft the talent. And he s pretty good sized, would there be any chance a backcourt with him and Hinrich would work?
> 
> Arenas, or anyone else, d you think the Clips could pick up Livingston over Pavel, Deng and Howard/Okafor (whoever doesn't go #1)?


I think the wrong thing to do would be to bring this kid on board and throw him in the 2 spot with Hinrich...

If anything I'd have him playing more of the 1 than Hinrich...

Livingston to the Clips is one of my dreams...

We're looking hard at Pavel though right now, and I know why and it sort of pisses me off....


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Deng vs. Iguodala*



> Originally posted by <b>JRose5</b>!
> I've been impressed with Livingston for awhile, especially now that he's added 20 pounds, but is there any chance the Bulls grab him?
> With Hinrich, we're set at PG, but you gotta draft the talent. And he s pretty good sized, would there be any chance a backcourt with him and Hinrich would work?
> 
> Arenas, or anyone else, d you think the Clips could pick up Livingston over Pavel, Deng and Howard/Okafor (whoever doesn't go #1)?


Me personally, and i dont follow the clips, hear that they like Pavel. They flew their coach to italy to see him to make sure he was on board. They had a great workout with him and Petro, which both players impressed. Livingston makes some sense. But if its the Clips, and its Deng and Howard, Deng makes alot more sense to them then Howard does. They already have 2 stud PFs in Wilcox and Brand


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

Just to add on to what RL just said...

Dunleavy was on the radio over the weekend saying a big man he was watching in Italy would be coming to L.A. for a workout...

He wouldn't say who, but we know it's Pavel....


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## JRose5 (May 4, 2003)

Didn't LA draft Kaman last year?
Do they not think high enough of him that they want to bring in Pavel?
I thought he had a pretty good rookie year..?


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## Rodman (Feb 5, 2004)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Deng vs. Iguodala*



> Originally posted by <b>Darius Miles Davis</b>!
> I think the worst thing that happens to us in this draft is that we don't pick up any quality wing talent. I'm fearing Emeka dropping to us and then we don't pull a trade of one of our big men for a really good wing player. Then we go into the season with a familiarly unbalanced roster.


Exactly what I'm thinking all the time, and I do hope that Orlando or the Clips take him in front of us or trade their pick to someone who will. Just to be sure he won't be their for Pax to draft. I'm not so sure Pax would do the only right thing and trade the pick. Somehow I think with all the talk going on Emeka is the one who will drop in the draft. Hopefully he can work out anyone know about workouts with him?


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

Yes but Pavel could very well be Mark Eaton with a 3 pointer...

This guy hit 18 of 25 3s with another 7 footer standing in front of him, off the dribble...

That's ridiculous.

You can't pass on talent, and if he's that good, I'd say take him and just sign a FA PG like JC....


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>JRose5</b>!
> Didn't LA draft Kaman last year?
> Do they not think high enough of him that they want to bring in Pavel?
> I thought he had a pretty good rookie year..?


Pavel could be a hit or miss. The clips have nothing to lose. If he turns out to be a star, great. If not, they are right where they have always been, the bottom. No other player is going to improve them that much in the tough Western Conference


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> Pavel could be a hit or miss. The clips have nothing to lose. If he turns out to be a star, great. If not, they are right where they have always been, the bottom. No other player is going to improve them that much in the tough Western Conference


Yeah, but you don't have to draft Pavel at 2. No way anyone else takes him until maybe Washington at 5. Then you can bet Atlanta will pass.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Darius Miles Davis</b>!
> 
> 
> Yeah, but you don't have to draft Pavel at 2. No way anyone else takes him until maybe Washington at 5. Then you can bet Atlanta will pass.


Probably. But if there is no trade down, then perhaps. This is the same franchise who drafted Kandi #1. And they did discover this kid


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

If we draft him we'll leave him in Europe for a year...

Sterling won't have to deal with his guaranteed contract this year...

Either way next year we'll be in the run for Aleksandrov...


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## SecretAgentGuy (Jul 15, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>C.C.C.P</b>!
> 
> 
> People would say that Pax is just buying time; aka Krause's Brand/ Tyson swap. But, stars win championships. The more I think about trading Curry trade the more I feel it's the way to go. Having two young centers is a luxury this crappy team can't afford. Tyson does not have a wing game, and may never develop range. Maybe it's time to give up and move him to his more natural postion...


I'm with you on this. Could we send Eddy + one of our bad contracts to Charlotte for their number 4? Eddy + JYD? Or Eddie plus Eddy? We run a S & T with NY for Thomas and we have a defensive rotation that Pax would kill for. We have Thomas, Tyson, Iggy, Deng and Kirk on the floor. Young team, but we finally fill the gaping hole at the 3 and we get out of our financial bind (only Tyson has to be re-upped next summer). And Kurt provides that toughness that our team has lacked for years.

Only concern is how much gas does Thomas have in the tank?


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

Eddy would be the #1 pick in this draft if he were in it...

Why trade him?


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>arenas809</b>!
> Eddy would be the #1 pick in this draft if he were in it...
> 
> Why trade him?


The reason you would trade Eddy, which I don't want to, is because Eddy Curry is not as good of a basketaball player as he is a prospect. As a prospect, he's a #1. As a player, he's lower because his heart just doesn't match his unlimited ability.

Eddy is not as good as Eddy, if you catch my drift.


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## fl_flash (Aug 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>arenas809</b>!
> Eddy would be the #1 pick in this draft if he were in it...
> 
> Why trade him?


Something...... is......... wrong........ I........ agree........ with.......... you..........  

I all seriousness, I just don't like the idea of trading the big guy. When you think about it, Eddy could drop 20 pts on opposing teams while being double and triple-teamed and with only one post move in his book - a right handed jump hook. That's already a nearly indefensable shot. If he would ever develop a little bit of a face-up game, work on his left hand a bit and vary his right handed moves, the possibilities are too much to part with.


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## giusd (Apr 17, 2003)

The bulls will not trade curry with some time, maturity, and better players around him he will do very well.

The paper clips would be nuts not to draft harris he will be a star and the latest on insider says it all. He has height, length, and is quick as lighting.

Iggy and deng are going to be drafted 3 and 4. If the bulls want iggy they might as well draft him at 3 or trade down one spot but why would the bobcats do that. It seems like they are very close in many ways with slightly different pros and cons.

david


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## Parabull (Nov 4, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Darius Miles Davis</b>!
> 
> 
> The reason you would trade Eddy, which I don't want to, is because Eddy Curry is not as good of a basketaball player as he is a prospect. As a prospect, he's a #1. As a player, he's lower because his heart just doesn't match his unlimited ability.
> ...


Seems to me like it's unlikely that the Bulls could make a run in the playoffs (or even make the playoffs) without a tall offensive option. Only team that can do that is NJ, but it's because they play an uptempo game that the Bulls don't seem prepared to change to (b/c of Pax and Skiles). Centers usually don't get good until they're older, so even if we drafted wings this year and tried to get a tall offensive player next year it would be quite some time before we would be at a playoff or better level.


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## Johnny Mac (May 6, 2003)

Good to see that we have options, I dont think you can go wrong with either Deng or Iggy. Of course, Pax still has to get it done. Knowing our luck, we'll probably walk away with neither.


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## SecretAgentGuy (Jul 15, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Parabull</b>!
> 
> 
> Seems to me like it's unlikely that the Bulls could make a run in the playoffs (or even make the playoffs) without a tall offensive option. Only team that can do that is NJ, but it's because they play an uptempo game that the Bulls don't seem prepared to change to (b/c of Pax and Skiles). Centers usually don't get good until they're older, so even if we drafted wings this year and tried to get a tall offensive player next year it would be quite some time before we would be at a playoff or better level.


To play devil's advocate, the Piston's are in the finals with Wallace and Wallace as their starting 4 & 5. With the lineup I proposed we would have Tyson at the 5 (better or equal to offensively than Ben) and Kurt Thomas at the 4. Tallest one of this group would be Chandler at a shade over 7'.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

Let's see how that series turns out before we start lauding the don't-guard-a-Shaq defense


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## SecretAgentGuy (Jul 15, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Darius Miles Davis</b>!
> 
> 
> The reason you would trade Eddy, which I don't want to, is because Eddy Curry is not as good of a basketaball player as he is a prospect. As a prospect, he's a #1. As a player, he's lower because his heart just doesn't match his unlimited ability.
> ...


Bingo.

I'm not full out pushing for a trade of Curry, but I think this is one option to be explored. Let's keep in mind, my proposal wasn't just to give up Eddy for the number 4 - it was also a salary dump of JYD or ERob (or both if we can) and we delay big extensions (since it is highly possible that Eddy will get offered a max type contract).

Young big men take a particular long time to groom, but have we forgotten how Eddy is incapable of playing defense and is passive by nature? We can revisit the nature vs nurture argument we've had regarding Eddy, but point remains that he is soft now and IMO will always be soft.


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## Parabull (Nov 4, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>sp00k</b>!
> 
> 
> To play devil's advocate, the Piston's are in the finals with Wallace and Wallace as their starting 4 & 5. With the lineup I proposed we would have Tyson at the 5 (better or equal to offensively than Ben) and Kurt Thomas at the 4. Tallest one of this group would be Chandler at a shade over 7'.


I'd call Sheed a tall offensive option. I don't think that Detroit would have gotten this far in the playoffs without him. I do agree with you that they would have made the playoffs (of course), but they're one of the best defensive teams I've ever seen. The Bulls would have to achieve that level of team defense to get into the playoffs without a tall scorer, IMO. If the Bulls would get that good on D, then I'd say trade Eddy, by all means.


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## Parabull (Nov 4, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>sp00k</b>!
> 
> 
> Bingo.
> ...


My best case scenario is trading Eddy and bad contracts etc. for #4, drafting Dwight Howard at #3 and Iggy at #4. We'd be really young, but would compete for playoff spot next year in East IMO.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

Well, anyway, if we might get back to the topic of the thread, I think it is further indication that we are in good shape at pick #3. If we keep the pick, we know that one of the two players, Iguodala or Deng, will be there.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Darius Miles Davis</b>!
> Well, anyway, if we might get back to the topic of the thread, I think it is further indication that we are in good shape at pick #3. If we keep the pick, we know that one of the two players, Iguodala or Deng, will be there.


with the first pick of the 2004 draft, the Orlando Magic select Luol Deng from Duke University

With the second pick of the 2004 draft, the Los Angeles Clippers select Andre Igoudala from University of Arizona

:upset:


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Parabull</b>!
> 
> 
> My best case scenario is trading Eddy and bad contracts etc. for #4, drafting Dwight Howard at #3 and Iggy at #4. We'd be really young, but would compete for playoff spot next year in East IMO.


You know what though? The more I think about it, if I'm Charlotte I don't know if I want to start out my franchise with lazy Eddy Curry, talented as he is. Is he really the ideal posterboy and face of an organization? We know he has the talent to be that. 

Then again, if the option is Eddy Curry vs. Josh Childress, I'll take Eddy in a heart beat and leave that skinny dude for some other team.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> with the first pick of the 2004 draft, the Orlando Magic select Luol Deng from Duke University
> ...


Whoa, that would be crazy. "THE two players" in "a two player draft" dropping to 3? Not gonna happen. If it would happen to anyone, it would be us though.


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

Hmmm.... confundido

I go away from the Bulls board for 5 days and now Iggy is a legimate threat for top 3 pick? Two weeks ago it was Luke Jackson playing himself into the top 13 by lighting up Iggy at Hoops... now Iggy played himself into the top 3 by having some good workouts?

The Hoops giveth and the Hoops taketh away. Just ask Steven Hunter. :grinning:


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## RipDirty (Jun 17, 2002)

Trading Eddy keeping Tyson will never happen. Even the thought of having Kurt Thomas, and 2 rookies in the same line up with Tyson. Means the Bulls will go after the record for fewest wins in a season, lowest scoring team in history, and any other record for futility you can think of. Tyson is a good help defender, but he's no Ben Wallace not even close.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>superdave</b>!
> Hmmm.... confundido
> 
> I go away from the Bulls board for 5 days and now Iggy is a legimate threat for top 3 pick? Two weeks ago it was Luke Jackson playing himself into the top 13 by lighting up Iggy at Hoops... now Iggy played himself into the top 3 by having some good workouts?
> ...


Just for the record (not that they are gods or anything), nbadraft.net had Iguodala at #6 about half way through the college season. Chad Ford still has him as his top shooting guard. 

#3 may be a little bit high for him, but since I think he may get consideration at #4, I think we're not the only team willing to reach for him.

Lets hope he and Deng get to work out against each other. And screw Arizona for losing in the first round and not setting up the Deng/Iggy matchup in the tourney.


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## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

Very true would have loved to have seen Iggy vs Deng, Duke vs Zona in 2nd round. Oh well. Iggy did his part. 19 pts, 8-15 shooting, 2-3 from 3P line.


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## T.Shock (Feb 11, 2003)

I like both these guys actually and I have a pretty good track record of the guys I've whole heartedly support. That list will soon make its way to this board. I'll give you some brief history unless somebody can dig up a post of mine from last year...where I did question LeBron but hyped Melo and D-Wade.


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## Machinehead (Jun 12, 2002)

Dealing one of our young bigs for Iguodala or Deng is lunacy 

Step 1 

Draft Iguodala at #3 to play the 2 guard 

Step 2 

Let Jamal go 

Step 3 

Go after Eric Williams in free agency with part of the MLE and Ron Mercer for the balance .. for the money that would have been paid to Jamal 

Step 4 

Get Mike DC's trade going ..with the Pax brothers ... The Robber and #32 for Kevin Ollie , Ira Newble and Jason Kapano

*

Curry
Chandler
E.Williams
Iguodala
Hinrich

bench 

Davis
J.Williams
Newble
Mercer
Ollie

A.Johnson
Kapano
Pargo

Pippen
Jeffries

*

That's 15 players for $51.5M


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## jollyoscars (Jul 5, 2003)

go iggy!


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## Machinehead (Jun 12, 2002)

Or .. take Deng at #3 

Match Crawford to $6M 

Flick the Robber and #32 for Ollie/Newble/Kapano trade

Resign Wesley Person for the #1.6M exception 

*

Curry
Chandler
Deng
Crawford
Hinrich

bench

Davis
Williams
Newble
Person
Ollie

A. Johnson
Pargo

Pippen
Jeffries

*

14 players for $54M


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>F.Jerzy</b>!
> 
> 
> Get Mike DC's trade going ..with the Pax brothers ... The Robber and #32 for Kevin Ollie , Ira Newble and Jason Kapano


This is a great deal for Cleveland. You take their crappy deals given to Newble and Ollie and they get the No. 32 (which is almostl like another 1st round pick) and E-Rob (for only two more years). I am sure they would take that deal in a heartbeat.


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## Machinehead (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> 
> 
> This is a great deal for Cleveland. You take their crappy deals given to Newble and Ollie and they get the No. 32 (which is almostl like another 1st round pick) and E-Rob (for only two more years). I am sure they would take that deal in a heartbeat.


Well its a needs trade for us 

We won't play the Robber and its a 3 for 1 deal 

A back up point guard in Ollie who can defend ( just can't hit a layup ) a perimeter shooter in Kapano and a back up defensive swing man in Newble


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## T.Shock (Feb 11, 2003)

Hmmmm Newble is like E-Rob being paid a little less and maybe Skiles plays him. So that's even. So are Kapono and Ollie worth the #32. I'd have to see who's available. If somebody like Bogdanovic or Varejao are there. My guess is no. However, I wouldn't bash it.


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## bullet (Jul 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>T.Shock</b>!
> Hmmmm Newble is like E-Rob being paid a little less and maybe Skiles plays him. So that's even. So are Kapono and Ollie worth the #32. I'd have to see who's available. If somebody like Bogdanovic or Varejao are there. My guess is no. However, I wouldn't bash it.


Newble unlike ERob at least gives effort.

And It's not Ollie(good defensive backup PG) and Ira that r worth the 32nd - It's getting rid of ERob (and thats worth even more than 32nd IMO)


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## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

*Re: Wow - today's Insider article - Inside Hoops Gym w/Iggy, Deng, Harris, and Living*



> Originally posted by <b>Darius Miles Davis</b>!
> Deng
> 
> - _Grover says he is much more athletic than he thought he would be_


Great recap. Thanks.

I just read the actual article. I hate to split hairs but Grover said that he _thinks_ that the knock on Deng's athleticism will be unfounded.

Livingston sounds unbelievable. Apparentely, the kid is taking the bus from Peoria to Chicago every day to work out at Hoops. That's gotta be a 4-5 hour round trip everyday. Sounds like just a great kid. He would be my pick if I were the Bobcats. Clips could even take a shot.

Both Deng or Iggy sound great for us.


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## The Krakken (Jul 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Darius Miles Davis</b>!
> 
> 
> Whoa, that would be crazy. "THE two players" in "a two player draft" dropping to 3? Not gonna happen. If it would happen to anyone, it would be us though.


That would NEVER HAPPEN. Orlando will NOT pick either one of those players unless they already have a deal for McGrady in the works.


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## Robert23 (Dec 3, 2003)

*Re: Re: Wow - today's Insider article - Inside Hoops Gym w/Iggy, Deng, Harris, and Living*



> Originally posted by <b>johnston797</b>!
> 
> 
> Great recap. Thanks.
> ...


Actually I bet it is more like 6. When I took the bus up to Chicago it was over 3 hours. It wasn't a straight shot. They had a handful of stops along the way and they were about 10 minutes a piece. It sucked. I have to give Livingston some major props for that. But it's kinda surprising that a sure fire lottery pick can't find a family member to give him ride. I guess it must be for the best to avoid any NCAA violations in case he does decide to go to Dook.


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## Robert23 (Dec 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Darius Miles Davis</b>!
> Whoa, that would be crazy. "THE two players" in "a two player draft" dropping to 3? Not gonna happen. If it would happen to anyone, it would be us though.


I think this is going to turn out to be alot more than a 2 player draft. Last year was a 3 player draft and look how it turned out. You had the 5th pick competing for ROY plus Bosh and Hinrich show they were pretty good too. So I wouldn't be totally shocked to see anybody jump ahead of Emeka or Howard. Although I hope that doesn't happen. I would rather have a sf out of this draft unless we can get a really good young sf through a trade.


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

My favorite part of the article? 

"Unbeknownst to most, the _real_ pre-draft camp actually takes place about five miles east of Moody at the legendary Hoops the Gym. . . "

Five miles east of Moody? That's much farther out into the lake than the Chicago Avenue water intake crib, for crying out loud.

P.S. I've volunteered to fact-check and copyedit Chad's articles for free, but he's never responded to my offer. My conscience is clear.


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