# Waiving players (Merged [The Future7's thread])



## The Future7 (Feb 24, 2005)

*Waive Dampier or Finley*

I hear that the league is trying to finalizie a clause that would give teams that pay the luxury tax the option of releasing one player and removing that player's salary from their luxury-tax number. 

Damp cost way to much money. Lets waive him and see if he would want to sign with us for less.

Or

We could waive Finley he is getting too much money. Waive him then re-sign him if we could.


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## aussiewill (Jan 20, 2005)

*Re: Waive Dampier or Finley*

Its not going to happen. Even if it were to be available, no player is going to settle on less money, they would be stupid to agree on doing that.


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## Tristan (Jan 13, 2003)

*Re: Waive Dampier or Finley*

Taw


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## LionOfJudah (May 27, 2003)

*Re: Waive Dampier or Finley*

We should just hire a hitman to take care of TAW.


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## nutmeged3 (Apr 11, 2005)

*Re: Waive Dampier or Finley*



> We should just hire a hitman to take care of TAW.


Haha tht sounds like a good plan


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## Tersk (Apr 9, 2004)

*Re: Waive Dampier or Finley*

But because the Mavericks' payroll is so high, Cuban also has to pay a dollar for every dollar that they are over the luxury tax. By jettisoning Finley, he could knock $15 million off his luxury tax next season. The Mavericks were well over the $61 million luxury-tax threshold last season. Essentially, the remainder of Finley's $51 million contract could cost Cuban $102 million if they remain over the luxury-tax threshold, which is probable if Finley is retained. Michael Finley's career with the Mavericks could come to an end this summer because of a clause in the new collective-bargaining agreement that could save owner Mark Cuban as much as $51 million. 

Two sources said Thursday that Finley, who has been with the Mavericks longer than any other current player, would be targeted if the Mavericks exercise this cost-cutting option. 

The new one-time loophole allows a team to waive a player and be relieved of any luxury-tax responsibility attached to that player's contract. Finley is owed $51,796,875 over the next three seasons. Cuban would still have to pay that in salary. 

The Mavericks have discussed the issue and are aware of the implications. It represents a chance to take a huge step toward the club being in a better financial situation for future player dealings. If the Mavericks execute this option, they would not be allowed to re-sign Finley for the length of the contract. 

Mavericks officials would not comment specifically about the possibility of taking this measure with Finley, who has 8 ½ years of service with the team and has been called the heart and soul of the franchise for many years. 

"Under the new CBA, a player could be released and you would save that money off the tax," president of basketball operations Donnie Nelson said. "Every team in the NBA has a player who fits that mode." 

Finley could not be reached for comment Thursday. 

Finley fits the description as a player with a maximum contract and three more years left on his deal. He is coming off his least-productive season as a Maverick, averaging 15.7 points and 4.1 rebounds and shooting 42.7 percent. However, an ankle injury hindered him much of the season and required surgery after the playoffs. 

Numerous NBA teams figure to use this loophole to their financial advantage. The New York Knicks reportedly are pursuing the option of waiving oft-injured Allan Houston, who like Finley has a long-term maximum contract. 

The process cannot officially start until the new CBA is signed, which isn't expected to happen until at least July 22. 

If the Mavericks were to move on the Finley issue, it would mean they could lose the two players who have been with the club the longest in the span of a few weeks. 

Shawn Bradley, who joined the team two months after Finley, has begun discussions with the team about a buyout of his contract that would allow him to retire after 12 seasons in the NBA. 

"Shawn has been feeling the cumulative effects of injuries to his knees and hip," Cuban said Thursday. "Retirement is something we are talking about, but he hasn't made a final decision yet." 

The Mavericks apparently are trying to arrange a long-term buyout of the 7-6 center's contract, which is worth $14.5 million, including $4.5 million next season. Although that money would still count against the salary cap, some of it could be deferred. 

Bradley could not be reached for comment Thursday. However, his mother, Teresa, said via e-mail from Utah that her son's retirement was set at the end of the season. 

Bradley apparently wants to devote more time to his family. He and wife Annette recently had their sixth child. 

When Avery Johnson took over as coach, Bradley was reduced to 12th-man status. With young centers Pavel Podkolzin and D.J. Mbenga on the roster, the 33-year-old Bradley was unlikely to get much playing time next season or beyond. The No. 2 overall pick in the 1993 draft, he averaged 8.1 points and 6.3 rebounds for his career.


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## Tristan (Jan 13, 2003)

*Mavs may waive Finley...seriously...*

By EDDIE SEFKO / The Dallas Morning News 


Michael Finley's career with the Mavericks could come to an end this summer because of a clause in the new collective-bargaining agreement that could save owner Mark Cuban as much as $51 million. 

Two sources said Thursday that Finley, who has been with the Mavericks longer than any other current player, would be targeted if the Mavericks exercise this cost-cutting option. 

The new one-time loophole allows a team to waive a player and be relieved of any luxury-tax responsibility attached to that player's contract. Finley is owed $51,796,875 over the next three seasons. Cuban would still have to pay that in salary. 

Mavericks/NBA
SportsSay: The blog of SportsDay

Sources: Mavs may waive Finley

Moore's Quick Take: Cutting ties with Finley makes sense

Tell Us: Should the Mavericks waive Michael Finley?

Cuban: Bradley leaning toward retirement

NBA Finals

Spurs reclaim NBA title

Results/schedule

More NBA
But because the Mavericks' payroll is so high, Cuban also has to pay a dollar for every dollar that they are over the luxury tax. By jettisoning Finley, he could knock $15 million off his luxury tax next season. The Mavericks were well over the $61 million luxury-tax threshold last season. Essentially, the remainder of Finley's $51 million contract could cost Cuban $102 million if they remain over the luxury-tax threshold, which is probable if Finley is retained. 

The Mavericks have discussed the issue and are aware of the implications. It represents a chance to take a huge step toward the club being in a better financial situation for future player dealings. If the Mavericks execute this option, they would not be allowed to re-sign Finley for the length of the contract. 

Mavericks officials would not comment specifically about the possibility of taking this measure with Finley, who has 8 ½ years of service with the team and has been called the heart and soul of the franchise for many years. 

"Under the new CBA, a player could be released and you would save that money off the tax," president of basketball operations Donnie Nelson said. "Every team in the NBA has a player who fits that mode." 

Finley could not be reached for comment Thursday. 

Finley fits the description as a player with a maximum contract and three more years left on his deal. He is coming off his least-productive season as a Maverick, averaging 15.7 points and 4.1 rebounds and shooting 42.7 percent. However, an ankle injury hindered him much of the season and required surgery after the playoffs. 

Numerous NBA teams figure to use this loophole to their financial advantage. The New York Knicks reportedly are pursuing the option of waiving oft-injured Allan Houston, who like Finley has a long-term maximum contract. 

The process cannot officially start until the new CBA is signed, which isn't expected to happen until at least July 22. 

If the Mavericks were to move on the Finley issue, it would mean they could lose the two players who have been with the club the longest in the span of a few weeks. 

Shawn Bradley, who joined the team two months after Finley, has begun discussions with the team about a buyout of his contract that would allow him to retire after 12 seasons in the NBA. 

"Shawn has been feeling the cumulative effects of injuries to his knees and hip," Cuban said Thursday. "Retirement is something we are talking about, but he hasn't made a final decision yet." 

The Mavericks apparently are trying to arrange a long-term buyout of the 7-6 center's contract, which is worth $14.5 million, including $4.5 million next season. Although that money would still count against the salary cap, some of it could be deferred. 

Bradley could not be reached for comment Thursday. However, his mother, Teresa, said via e-mail from Utah that her son's retirement was set at the end of the season. 

Bradley apparently wants to devote more time to his family. He and wife Annette recently had their sixth child. 

When Avery Johnson took over as coach, Bradley was reduced to 12th-man status. With young centers Pavel Podkolzin and D.J. Mbenga on the roster, the 33-year-old Bradley was unlikely to get much playing time next season or beyond. The No. 2 overall pick in the 1993 draft, he averaged 8.1 points and 6.3 rebounds for his career. 

dallasnews.com


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## Tristan (Jan 13, 2003)

*Re: Mavs may waive Finley...seriously...*

Another shocker...I dont think the mavs should do this at all after all the times that hes been through. I mean, it would be smart if Cuban made a deal by still paying him the money, and sign for a mid exception.

But everyone has there own opinions.


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## Tersk (Apr 9, 2004)

*Re: Mavs may waive Finley...seriously...*

I merged this thread with Tristans thread


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

*Re: Mavs may waive Finley...seriously...*

The thing is, he is still getting paid. He just won't count against the cap. Man, they could cut him and re-sign him, but frankly, they should cut him and he should move on.


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## Tristan (Jan 13, 2003)

*Re: Waive Dampier or Finley (merged)*

I dont think teams can resign the players after getting cut...can they?


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## Tristan (Jan 13, 2003)

*Re: Waive Dampier or Finley (merged)*

It would also suck if a team...lets say....San Antonio picks him up. Especially a rival team. Phoenix can also use him after QR left.


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## aussiewill (Jan 20, 2005)

*Re: Waive Dampier or Finley (merged)*

Under this agreement they could re-sign him, but I wouldn't have any qualms with letting him find a new home. The Log jam from the 1-3 is tough and Finley is who I would cut, even if he has done great for us in times before. We have clearly seen his best years past.

Now if Bradley, Finley and TAW all go, that makes me one happy man as we could get a decent roster finally!


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## The Future7 (Feb 24, 2005)

*Re: Waive Dampier or Finley (merged)*

We have to cut him to save money. He getting old and his jumper is too inconsistent. He is not as useful. Having him is just slowing down the development of Daniels and Howard.


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## Ownerofpueblo (Aug 17, 2003)

*Re: Waive Dampier or Finley (merged)*

I read somewhere that you couldn't resign him for the length of time you had to pay him. After that, then you can.


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## Tristan (Jan 13, 2003)

*Re: Waive Dampier or Finley (merged)*

If Fin was let go, Shawn is gone, and possibly a buyout of TAW's contracts...are we going to be able to sign a big name star and/or lock up Jho?


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## Petey (Aug 23, 2002)

*Re: Mavs may waive Finley...seriously...*



HKF said:


> The thing is, he is still getting paid. He just won't count against the cap. Man, they could cut him and re-sign him, but frankly, they should cut him and he should move on.



Yes he is still getting paid. No, he WILL count against the cap (otherwise it's an instant loophole, where a team under the cap drops a player to get further under... IE Cavs or Bucks), he will not count when they add up salary to calculate how much a team owns in luxury tax. No they can't cut him and resign him. They are suggesting teams that do cut these players can not sign said player until their contracts are full paid off (w/ that team).

-Petey


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: Waive Dampier or Finley (merged)*



Ownerofpueblo said:


> I read somewhere that you couldn't resign him for the length of time you had to pay him. After that, then you can.



you got it :clap:


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## Tersk (Apr 9, 2004)

*Re: Waive Dampier or Finley (merged)*

I've seen at least two team threads who are interested in signing Finley

Yes he has an absurd contract, but he has to have some value.


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## Shabadoo (Feb 12, 2005)

*Re: Waive Dampier or Finley (merged)*



Theo! said:


> I've seen at least two team threads who are interested in signing Finley
> 
> Yes he has an absurd contract, but he has to have some value.



Well that's entirely the problem I think. Teams only have interest in him at a lower price.

Apparently his surgery was successful. The operation was to remove some bone chips I believe, which was in part why he had seemingly last a step (or a few) last season.

I think his decline may have indeed been accelerated by that injury, because it seemed that even his jump shot wouldn't go in anymore. While an athletic player like Finley is likely to suffer as he grows long in the tooth, his jumper shouldn't leave him so quickly. I think some lift problems due to his injury, and some rhythm issues may have contributed.

I think teams (like the Bulls) would love Finley at a lower price, but at ~14 million per it is unlikely the Mavs will find any suitors. He should play better than he did last year though. I see him as a poor man's Joe Johnson (whereas now Joe is poised to become a prime-Finley sort of player). He's still got some defensive ability, and a well rounded offensive game. His age though might be a significant problem, as he's around 33 I think.

It's a Trap for the Mavs. They cut him, and someone snatches him up. Try to trade, and no one wants him.

I wonder when this waive thing has to be done, does it have to be done in the off-season, or is it a one time offer- valid for whenever a suitable circumstance arises? If it is valid anytime, it may be best to evaluate Fin at the start of the season.

I say this as there is the added cost of signing a replacement for him- unless we believe that Stack and Quis can do the job permanently (which is a distinct possibility). I think if Harris gets more playing time that wouldn't be a problem- as Quis becomes more of a backup SG than a backup combo PG. If the Mavs have to sign a replacement, this will substantially cut down on the apparent savings in luxury tax.

It's probably best to wait and see if Fin has anything left in the tank, unless the offer is only valid for a limited time. Also, this will depend on what kind of FA's we're looking at (hopefully a purer PG).


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## Tersk (Apr 9, 2004)

*Re: Waive Dampier or Finley (merged)*



Shabadoo said:


> Well that's entirely the problem I think. Teams only have interest in him at a lower price.
> 
> Apparently his surgery was successful. The operation was to remove some bone chips I believe, which was in part why he had seemingly last a step (or a few) last season.
> 
> ...


Great post! Except, did Finley ever have the ball handling skills that JJ had?


OT: But next year, we may finally be able to trade TAW (he has an expiring of almost 8 million dollars[next year]) somewhere


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## Drewbs (Feb 16, 2004)

*Re: Waive Dampier or Finley (merged)*

honestly... I dont like the idea of waiving Finley. Hes aging and overpriced, and the luxury tax cut would be nice...

but Finley is still a good player. I don't think that Marquis Daniels and Jerry Stackhouse fill his role. Stackhouse is still a ballhog, he might be a better offensive player than Finley, he didn't really show over the playoffs that he played well within the team concept. All I saw from him was a lot of isolation, Finley might just be a jumpshooter now, but he knows when to defer to Dirk on the court. 2nd, I have never been sold on Marquis Daniels. He had a few good games at the end of the 03-04 season, and but he has not shown that he is as good as he played in that stretch. I just don't feel comfortable yet with him in a major role in the Dallas offense. Maybe theres more benefits to waiving Fin that I don't know about, but personally, I would hate to see him cut. He is the heart and soul of the Mavs.


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## Tersk (Apr 9, 2004)

*Re: Waive Dampier or Finley (merged)*

51 million dollars worth of benefits


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## Drewbs (Feb 16, 2004)

*Re: Waive Dampier or Finley (merged)*



Theo! said:


> 51 million dollars worth of benefits


Eh... if Cuban could let Nash walk and a year later, we don't seem to mind that much, he can let Finley go.

Alot of this comes from though, that I'm not confident enough in Stackhouse and Daniels.


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## Tersk (Apr 9, 2004)

*Just testing*

I'm adding a poll to this thread, so even if you've checked it out please vote and maybe even post why

Who would you want to be waived by Dallas?

Salaries Here


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## DaUnbreakableKinG (Jun 28, 2003)

*Re: Just testing*

Ok??

:boohoo:


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## fuzzrhythm (Feb 22, 2005)

Finley. it's primarily a business decision, but there has been a lot of tension over his performance and his role with the team over the last 2 years.


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## The Future7 (Feb 24, 2005)

Now that I look at the salaries, we have Finley for 3 more years and Damp for 6 more years. Why dont we just get rid of Damp? No one will want him by the time his contract is up. We can keep Finley for 2 years and trade him when his contract is expiring. Just throwing the idea out there. One of them has to go.


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## Tersk (Apr 9, 2004)

Because Dampier (contrary to popular belief) is useful, hes the inside presence we needed

Without him, we are at Step 1..without Nash.


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## Tersk (Apr 9, 2004)

> Here is the list of all players who produced the aforementioned 8ppg/8rpg this year, along with their position and salary:
> 
> *POS.....NAME .......SALARY 2004-05 *
> C .......Shaquille O'Neal ...27.7
> ...


DB.com


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## aussiewill (Jan 20, 2005)

Personally, I don't think we need to worry about waiving anyone. All because we then have to pay more towards the salary cap in finding someone to replace him. Fin still has some use in him, he may be better next season after surgery and may be more accustomed to a role off the bench, thus getting more production (consistancy wise). There is less pressure when coming off the bench and he can relenquish his co-captaincy to Dirk. He may do better just by the fact he isn't on the court as much and isn't scrutinised by the media etc. he will then be able to concentrate on just giving us his best as our 7th - 9th man.

Then if he is still not coming up with the goods, shop him around for a trade around the deadline next season, there will be other desperate teams ready to unload players who haven't gelled with the rest of the roster who are overpaid like Fin.


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## Tersk (Apr 9, 2004)

Inspired by DallasBasketball.com’s list of Centers and their salaries, I did a little research and came up with the following

These are the swingmen (capable of SG/SF) who averaged over 15 points per game. 

Kobe Bryant (27.6 PPG) -- Los Angeles L.
LeBron James (27.2 PPG) -- Cleveland
Tracy McGrady (25.7 PPG) -- Houston
Vince Carter (24.5 PPG) -- New Jersey
Dwyane Wade (24.1 PPG) -- Miami
Ray Allen (23.9 PPG) -- Seattle
Michael Redd (23 PPG) -- Milwaukee
Corey Maggette (22.3 PPG) -- Los Angeles Cl.
Jason Richardson (21.7 PPG) -- Golden State
Paul Pierce (21.6 PPG) -- Boston
Rip Hamilton (18.7 PPG) -- Detroit
Jalen Rose (18.5 PPG) -- Toronto
Cuttino Mobley (17.8 PPG) -- Sacramento
Jamal Crawford (17.7 PPG) -- New York
Desmond Mason (17.2 PPG) -- Milwaukee
Joe Johnson (17.1 PPG) -- Phoenix
Bobby Simmons (16.4 PPG) -- Los Angeles Cl.
Manu Ginobili (16 PPG) -- San Antonio
Wally Sczerbiak (15.5 PPG) -- Minnesota
Michael Finley (15.5 PPG) -- Dallas
Reggie Miller (14.9 PPG) -- Indiana
Jerry Stackhouse (14.9 PPG) -- Dallas
Quentin Richardson (14.9 PPG) -- Phoenix

23 Swingman score above 15 PPG, so it wouldn’t be hard to replace Finley with one of the 23.

Now, for contracts off these guys.

Allen Iverson (30.7 PPG) - $14,625,000
Ray Allen (23.9 PPG) - $14,625,000
Michael Finley (15.5 PPG) - $14,609,375
Tracy McGrady (25.7 PPG) - $14,487,000
Jalen Rose (18.5 PPG) - $14,487,000
Kobe Bryant (27.6 PPG) - $14,175,000
Paul Pierce (21.6 PPG) - $12,584,688
Vince Carter (24.5 PPG) - $12,584,688
Wally Sczerbiak (15.5 PPG) - $9,000,000
Rip Hamilton (18.7 PPG) - $7,312,500
Jerry Stackhouse (14.9 PPG) - $7,000,000
Manu Ginobili (16 PPG) - $6,600,000
Desmond Mason (17.2 PPG) - $6,429,333
Corey Maggette (22.3 PPG) - $6,160,000
Cuttino Mobley (17.8 PPG) - $5,884,500
Jamal Crawford (17.7 PPG) - $5,800,000
Quentin Richardson (14.9 PPG) - $5,800,000
Reggie Miller (14.9 PPG) - $5,625,000
Ricky Davis (16 PPG) - $5,454,000
Michael Redd (23 PPG) - $3,000,000



Jason Richardson (21.7 PPG) - RC
Ben Gordon (15.1 PPG) - RC
Bobby Simmons (16.4 PPG) - RC
Joe Johnson (17.1 PPG) - RC
Dwyane Wade (24.1 PPG) - RC
LeBron James (27.2 PPG) - RC

Oh God, what a horrible contract. The only one who comes close to it is Jalen Rose, but his is a year shorter

I have no idea why I did this, but I’m bored as **** so I decided to do this.

I have one question about Michael
- He surely wasn’t at the Allen Iverson, Tracy McGrady, Kobe Bryant or Ray Allen level when he got this contract, was he?


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## The Future7 (Feb 24, 2005)

No but I know he was a real good shooter and he could fly. He was more of a less shooting Ray Allen.


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## Tersk (Apr 9, 2004)

How much would these guys save Cuban, if they were waived

[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]_Erick Dampier: _$53,287,500 (over 6 seasons)
[/font]_Michael Finley: _$51,796,875 (over 3 seasons)
_Keith Van Horn: _[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]$15,694,250 (over 1 season)
_Jerry Stackhouse: _$15,500,000 (over 2 seasons)
_Tariq Abdul-Wahad: _$15,187,500 (over 2 seasons)

I thought they were the only ones of interest
[/font]


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