# Kyle Lowry Watch



## Porn Player

Trade rumours are already circling so I figured I would put together a thread to keep all of the discussion in one point. 



> Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine 16s
> Latest trade scuttle: Raptors trying to construct deal with Knicks that would send Kyle Lowry to New York





> If talks progress and no other teams jump in, trade would likely have to feature Ray Felton going to Toronto with at least one more player





> Knicks had interest in Denver's Andre Miller, but focusing now on trying to make deal for Toronto's Kyle Lowry, sources tell Yahoo.





> Ryan Wolstat‏@WolstatSun14s
> Raptors are trying to smoke out more offers for Lowry. Hence putting this out there, but Knicks do have interest.


I would love to get either Shumpert or Hardaway Jr.


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## Bogg

I'm really hoping any trade involves Felton, just so we can see him eventually come back to NY a third time.


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## RollWithEm

Not exactly sure if the Knicks have anything of value to send back... other than Shumpert. If the Raps do get Shump in this deal, though, they could have a nice young corps brewing.


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## Bogg

RollWithEm said:


> Not exactly sure if the Knicks have anything of value to send back... other than Shumpert. If the Raps do get Shump in this deal, though, they could have a nice young corps brewing.


It's not going to cost much to get Lowry, because Ujiri is letting him walk this summer anyway and they already have his replacement (for the next couple months anyway) in Vasquez. First team to step to the plate with any future first gets him, but ultimately I think either Shumpert or Hardaway Jr will get the job done.


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## Porn Player

The more the merrier. 



> Frank Isola of the New York Daily News reports that the Brooklyn Nets and Golden State Warriors are also interested in Lowry.


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## Dissonance

Wonder if Lakers join in with Blake injury.


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## Porn Player

Adding either Shumpert or Hardaway would make me very excited for the future, I like them both. 



> Tough situation for Knicks: With no first-round pick to add, NYK could be confronted w/unsavory option of putting Tim Hardaway Jr. in deal


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## RollWithEm

What would the Warriors consider giving up? Draymond Green would be an interesting piece... assuming Harrison Barnes is out of the question.


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## Knick Killer

Do the Raptors have the Knicks pick in this draft and is it protected? 

Back to Lowry, Hardaway Jr. would be a really nice return for a guy you plan on letting walk in the summer anyways. Hopefully the teams interested all have a bidding war and the Raptors get a steal of a deal.


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


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## Porn Player

Knick Killer said:


> Do the Raptors have the Knicks pick in this draft and is it protected?
> 
> Back to Lowry, Hardaway Jr. would be a really nice return for a guy you plan on letting walk in the summer anyways. Hopefully the teams interested all have a bidding war and the Raptors get a steal of a deal.
> 
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


I wish. We own their 2016 1st.


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## Porn Player

If Brooklyn ends up being our trading partner then Lowry for Filler + Bogdanovic + future consideration looks like a positive move to me. Bogdanovic is lighting it up overseas and has a lot of scouts excited, my only nervousness would be the fact he is a Euro, and we just got rid of one big bust.


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## Porn Player

> Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine 14s
> And at last report, Toronto was said to be seeking TWO of the following three: Shumpert, Hardaway Jr., Future First. A bit pricey, I'd say


Oh Masai, I do like what you've done. 

Bidding war!


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## Bogg

Porn Player said:


> If Brooklyn ends up being our trading partner then Lowry for Filler + Bogdanovic + future consideration looks like a positive move to me. Bogdanovic is lighting it up overseas and has a lot of scouts excited, my only nervousness would be the fact he is a Euro, and we just got rid of one big bust.


I'm still convinced that Teletovic could be a good role player in the right situation. His outside shooting could mesh well with Jonas.


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## RollWithEm

Porn Player said:


> Oh Masai, I do like what you've done.
> 
> Bidding war!


WHAT? If he gets Shump AND Hardaway Jr for Lowry, he's a genius.


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## Kidd

Bogg said:


> I'm still convinced that Teletovic could be a good role player in the right situation. His outside shooting could mesh well with Jonas.


Tired of seeing you (or maybe it was someone else) talking about Teletovic like he's worth something. It's time to give it up, he's an inconsistent Steve Novak.


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## seifer0406

The Knicks would have to be retarded to trade Shumpert for Lowry. The problem still remains for the Knicks, a lack of perimeter defenders. Shumpert is their only perimeter defender and unless they're getting one in return they're not trading Shumpert.

I would however consider taking on Amare's contract if it means we get Shumpert. If we can include Landry Fields and Chuck Hayes into the trade we're only taking on 10 more mil of contract next season since Fields makes a staggering 8.5 mil next year. 

Getting Shumpert would also allow us to explore trade options with DeRozan. While not a popular opinion trading DeRozan now has many benefits. His value has never been higher and trading him away now would allow us to effectively tank the rest of the season.


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## R-Star

seifer0406 said:


> The Knicks would have to be retarded to trade Shumpert for Lowry. The problem still remains for the Knicks, a lack of perimeter defenders. Shumpert is their only perimeter defender and unless they're getting one in return they're not trading Shumpert.
> 
> I would however consider taking on Amare's contract if it means we get Shumpert. If we can include Landry Fields and Chuck Hayes into the trade we're only taking on 10 more mil of contract next season since Fields makes a staggering 8.5 mil next year.
> 
> Getting Shumpert would also allow us to explore trade options with DeRozan. While not a popular opinion trading DeRozan now has many benefits. His value has never been higher and trading him away now would allow us to effectively tank the rest of the season.


If they don't trade him for Lowry they're trading him for someone else. They've made him the whipping boy in the media and publicly shopped him to every team. 

Hes gone.


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## R-Star

seifer0406 said:


> The Knicks would have to be retarded to trade Shumpert for Lowry. The problem still remains for the Knicks, a lack of perimeter defenders. Shumpert is their only perimeter defender and unless they're getting one in return they're not trading Shumpert.
> 
> I would however consider taking on Amare's contract if it means we get Shumpert. If we can include Landry Fields and Chuck Hayes into the trade we're only taking on 10 more mil of contract next season since Fields makes a staggering 8.5 mil next year.
> 
> Getting Shumpert would also allow us to explore trade options with DeRozan. *While not a popular opinion trading DeRozan now has many benefits. His value has never been higher and trading him away now would allow us to effectively tank the rest of the season.*


And you send away one of the few players who actually want to be on the team. Who takes pride in being there.

Let the revolving door of players and mediocrity continue!

Here's to overrating the shit out of Shumpert for 3-5 years, and then blaming all the teams woe's on him and trading him for the next rebuild!

****ing idiotic Raptors fans.


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## seifer0406

R-Star said:


> And you send away one of the few players who actually want to be on the team. Who takes pride in being there.
> 
> Let the revolving door of players and mediocrity continue!
> 
> Here's to overrating the shit out of Shumpert for 3-5 years, and then blaming all the teams woe's on him and trading him for the next rebuild!
> 
> ****ing idiotic Raptors fans.


I don't understand your man-crush on DeRozan. He is what he is, a borderline allstar that plays a position that is loaded with talent. If he's the only player that "actually wants to be in Toronto" then we might as well just disband the team.

You're an idiot for thinking that Toronto has a revolving door of players. Name me 3 good players that Toronto traded away because they undervalued their own players. Rudy Gay is probably the first and only in nearly a decade and most would say that Toronto killed in that trade.


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## seifer0406

This is what I would try to do.

Lowry/Fields/Hayes/fillers to New York for Shumpert/Amare

DeRozan/Amir Johnson to Cleveland for Dion Waiters/Tristan Thompson/fillers

We end up with a starting 5 of 

Jonas
Tristan Thompson
Ross
Shumpert
Vasquez

which will lose us a lot of games this year and hopefully land us a top 5 pick. Wiggins/Parker would both slide right into this lineup while Marcus Smart/Shumpert would be an intriguing backcourt tandem. Flip Waiters on draft night for a mid-late first.


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## R-Star

seifer0406 said:


> I don't understand your man-crush on DeRozan. He is what he is, a borderline allstar that plays a position that is loaded with talent. If he's the only player that "actually wants to be in Toronto" then we might as well just disband the team.
> 
> You're an idiot for thinking that Toronto has a revolving door of players. Name me 3 good players that Toronto traded away because they undervalued their own players. Rudy Gay is probably the first and only in nearly a decade and most would say that Toronto killed in that trade.


Rudy Gay was traded because he was your star player and the whole fan base and media turned on him. 

You got Novak, a 2016 first, and a slap in the face by Macus Camby for Barnani. Not very much return for a former 1st, is it?

And what happened with Bargnani? He was your star player, the fanbase turned on him, and he was given away for less then what he was worth. 

Bosh left because.... the whole fanbase turned on him. Could he have still left anyways? Maybe. But he sure as hell was leaving when he started hearing boo's.

And what of Vince? Superstar of the franchise. Until the fanbase thought he wasn't dunking enough. They turned on him. They boo'd him. And he forced his way out. How's Alonzo Mourning treating you guys?


By all means, turn on Derozan. It will skyrocket his trade value like it did for the past guys I mentioned. 


Pull your head out of your ass and deal with reality.


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## R-Star

seifer0406 said:


> This is what I would try to do.
> 
> Lowry/Fields/Hayes/fillers to New York for Shumpert/Amare
> 
> DeRozan/Amir Johnson to Cleveland for Dion Waiters/Tristan Thompson/fillers
> 
> We end up with a starting 5 of
> 
> Jonas
> Tristan Thompson
> Ross
> Shumpert
> Vasquez
> 
> which will lose us a lot of games this year and hopefully land us a top 5 pick. Wiggins/Parker would both slide right into this lineup while Marcus Smart/Shumpert would be an intriguing backcourt tandem. Flip Waiters on draft night for a mid-late first.


Then package Wiggins and Shumpert together in 2020 for a 1st round pick and some expirings. 

Yay.


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## seifer0406

R-Star said:


> Rudy Gay was traded because he was your star player and the whole fan base and media turned on him.
> 
> You got Novak, a 2016 first, and a slap in the face by Macus Camby for Barnani. Not very much return for a former 1st, is it?
> 
> And what happened with Bargnani? He was your star player, the fanbase turned on him, and he was given away for less that what he was worth.
> 
> Bosh left because.... the whole fanbase turned on him. Could he have still left anyways? Maybe. But he sure as hell was leaving when he started hearing boo's.
> 
> And what of Vince? Superstar of the franchise. Until the fanbase thought he wasn't dunking enough. They turned on him. They boo'd him. And he forced his way out. How's Alonzo Mourning treating you guys?
> 
> 
> By all means, turn on Derozan. It will skyrocket his trade value like it did for the past guys I mentioned.
> 
> 
> Pull your head out of your ass and deal with reality.


You're out of your mind. Memphis traded Rudy Gay for Ed Davis who they rarely play. Gay is overpaid and overrated. Go educate yourself on some advance stats so you will have a clue on how Memphis became a better team without Gay and how most expert analysts actually project more wins for Toronto after they traded Gay. The only negative thing for us after trading Gay is that we might win more games which will hurt our draft position.

I don't understand which planet you are living in that you have a negative thing to say to us about the Bargnani trade. The Toronto fanbase gave Bargnani as much rope as any #1 pick in the history of the league. A 7 footer that averages less than 6 rebounds per 36 min just don't have a place as a starter on a winning team. Instead of examining your own anal walls, perhaps you should pull out and see this reality.

As for Bosh/Tmac the fanbase only turned on them after they left. You need to learn your Raptors history before making these retarded claims. The history with Vince was well documented and I don't see how that is relative to this discussion. Vince actually admitted to not playing his hardest in an attempt to force a trade. I don't know what more needs to be said about that.


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## R-Star

seifer0406 said:


> You're out of your mind. Memphis traded Rudy Gay for Ed Davis who they rarely play. Gay is overpaid and overrated. Go educate yourself on some advance stats so you will have a clue on how Memphis became a better team without Gay and how most expert analysts actually project more wins for Toronto after they traded Gay. The only negative thing for us after trading Gay is that we might win more games which will hurt our draft position.
> 
> I don't understand which planet you are living in that you have a negative thing to say to us about the Bargnani trade. The Toronto fanbase gave Bargnani as much rope as any #1 pick in the history of the league. A 7 footer that averages less than 6 rebounds per 36 min just don't have a place as a starter on a winning team. Instead of examining your own anal walls, perhaps you should pull out and see this reality.
> 
> As for Bosh/Tmac the fanbase only turned on them after they left. You need to learn your Raptors history before making these retarded claims. The history with Vince was well documented and I don't see how that is relative to this discussion. Vince actually admitted to not playing his hardest in an attempt to force a trade. I don't know what more needs to be said about that.


Bosh wasn't turned on until _after_ he left?

Look buddy, if you're going to willfully live in a delusional fantasy world, what's the point of this debate?

And you trying to bring up Rudy Gay's advanced stats is priceless. Some dick head who does the sports news in the smallest village in the middle of nowhere could tell you that. EVERYONE has been talking about Rudy's shitty advance stats. So don't try and sound smart about it **** head. The point was hes yet another star player who Toronto traded.

Rudy Gay
Andrea Bargnani
Chris Bosh
Vince Carter
Tracy McGrady

Nice decade man. You should probably trade Derozan. Will help solidify your teams next 10 years of trading away their franchise for constant rebuilding.


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## seifer0406

R-Star said:


> Bosh wasn't turned on until _after_ he left?
> 
> Look buddy, if you're going to willfully live in a delusional fantasy world, what's the point of this debate?
> 
> And you trying to bring up Rudy Gay's advanced stats is priceless. Some dick head who does the sports news in the smallest village in the middle of nowhere could tell you that. EVERYONE has been talking about Rudy's shitty advance stats. So don't try and sound smart about it **** head. The point was hes yet another star player who Toronto traded.
> 
> Rudy Gay
> Andrea Bargnani
> Chris Bosh
> Vince Carter
> Tracy McGrady
> 
> Nice decade man. You should probably trade Derozan. Will help solidify your teams next 10 years of trading away their franchise for constant rebuilding.


Riiiiiight......so we trade away someone that is detrimental to the team's present/future but it's a loss for us since he's a "star player" in your mind.

I guess you'll just have to scratch your head when Masai Ujiri wins executive of the year again at the end of the season.

I would continue to argue with you but you clearly don't have a clue of what's going on.

So I guess in R-Star's world Toronto fans drove VC/Bosh/Tmac out of Toronto. I don't know what more there is to say when that is your reality.


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## R-Star

seifer0406 said:


> Riiiiiight......so we trade away someone that is detrimental to the team's present/future but it's a loss for us since he's a "star player" in your mind.
> 
> I guess you'll just have to scratch your head when Masai Ujiri wins executive of the year again at the end of the season.
> 
> I would continue to argue with you but you clearly don't have a clue of what's going on.
> 
> So I guess in R-Star's world Toronto fans drove VC/Bosh/Tmac out of Toronto. I don't know what more there is to say when that is your reality.


You weren't making trade idea's for Bosh on this very forum before the Miami stuff started?


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## seifer0406

R-Star said:


> You weren't making trade idea's for Bosh on this very forum before the Miami stuff started?


lol, I think the funny thing here is the thought that you took a look at that and came to the conclusion that fans wanted him gone.

I mean you must have the logic skills of an ass rash.


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## R-Star

seifer0406 said:


> lol, I think the funny thing here is the thought that you took a look at that and came to the conclusion that fans wanted him gone.
> 
> I mean you must have the logic skills of an ass rash.


What?

I remember making fun of you for wanting to trade Bosh in the past, so I brought it up.

Logic of an ass rash? Is that what passes for a joke over there in hippy town B.C.?


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## R-Star

You're right though. You continually discussing Bosh trade options by no means meant you wanted him gone.

That's why I consistently make Paul George and Roy Hibbert trade idea threads. 


You sir, must have the logic skills of a dick rash.


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## seifer0406

I mean gosh, Bosh must have been asked several thousand times in interviews whether he would stay in Toronto. If the fanbase wanted him gone, why the hell would we ask him these questions. Just don't sign him and that would be the end of it. The fanbase wanted him to stay but was petrified at the thought of him leaving and us ending up with nothing. That was essentially what ended up happening. But no, in your mind we drove him out of the town.


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## seifer0406

Go look up the quote that Bosh made after he left Toronto. He said that leaving Toronto was the hardest decision that he ever made. Apparently it was hard for him because fans in Toronto hated him and wanted him gone.


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## R-Star

seifer0406 said:


> I mean gosh, Bosh must have been asked several thousand times in interviews whether he would stay in Toronto. If the fanbase wanted him gone, why the hell would we ask him these questions. Just don't sign him and that would be the end of it. The fanbase wanted him to stay but was petrified at the thought of him leaving and us ending up with nothing. That was essentially what ended up happening. But no, in your mind we drove him out of the town.


Jesus. 

No wonder your signature is "Young Onez!!!"

Ridiculous fans like yourself are the reason I quit watching the Oilers in hockey. "Hey! Lets trade our last 3 draft picks for a 1st in this years draft!"

"YOUNGER! YAAAAAA!"


You made consistent trade threads for Bosh. Now all the sudden that turns into "Well he wanted out but wanted to help us so......" what? What the **** does that have to do with our conversation? You argued that you aren't consistently turning on and trying to trade star players, I immediately gave you a recent example (or I could have gone with DeRozan, Gay or Bargs since you had trade idea's for all 3 of them as well). And now you're coming up with excuses.


Look skippy, you lost. Plain and simple. 


Toronto is on the verge of finally being a playoff contender. Even if its because the East stinks. They're moving towards something. Just like they were showing they were last year. But in your odd little mind it would be better to perpetually rebuild over and over again. When someone turns over the age of 23 its time to start looking for trade options.


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## seifer0406

maybe you should look up some of those trade threads I made. Again, more logic skills is needed if we are to continue this conversation. You're making these claims that aren't making any remote sense to the events that actually happened. We didn't go through those 2 years of pondering whether Bosh would stay just to have some idiot come in and claim that we wanted him gone.

We wanted Bosh to stay and he had a max contract offer from us when he signed with Miami. If that doesn't convince you I don't think anything more would. The fear all along was what happens if he leaves. Those trade threads were made under the speculation that he would leave. In hindsight the Raptors should've traded Bosh instead of letting him go for nothing.


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## seifer0406

And just for the record I like DeRozan and will continue be a fan of his no matter where he plays in the future. But as a Raptor fan I would support whatever that is best for the team.


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## R-Star

seifer0406 said:


> Go look up the quote that Bosh made after he left Toronto. He said that leaving Toronto was the hardest decision that he ever made. Apparently it was hard for him because fans in Toronto hated him and wanted him gone.


I can find some quotes from when Vince left too if you want.


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## seifer0406

R-Star said:


> I can find some quotes from when Vince left too if you want.


Go for it. I can't wait.


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## R-Star

seifer0406 said:


> maybe you should look up some of those trade threads I made. Again, more logic skills is needed if we are to continue this conversation. You're making these claims that aren't making any remote sense to the events that actually happened. We didn't go through those 2 years of pondering whether Bosh would stay just to have some idiot come in and claim that we wanted him gone.
> 
> We wanted Bosh to stay and he had a max contract offer from us when he signed with Miami. If that doesn't convince you I don't think anything more would. The fear all along was what happens if he leaves. Those trade threads were made under the speculation that he would leave. In hindsight the Raptors should've traded Bosh instead of letting him go for nothing.


I live one province over from you. I watch the same sports shows as you, I hear the same things. TSN and Toronto media turned on Bosh a couple years before he left. It was "Can he be the number 1 guy?" which turned to "Hes not a 1a guy", to asking if he was worth the max, to fans booing the whole team off the court.

Try to write history any way you want, but you aren't going to give me a history lesson on Toronto when you're sitting in Vancouver.


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## R-Star

seifer0406 said:


> Go for it. I can't wait.


The ones where he says he'll always have a spot for Toronto in his heart?

I guess that somehow means the fanbase never wanted him gone, just like it did with your Bosh analogy right?


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## seifer0406

this entire thing is just comical. Instead of defending my point with Bosh you're going to look up Vince's quote in an attempt to show that Toronto fans wanted him out of town.

I don't even need to see the quote to know how you would butcher its meaning. Did he tank games on purpose because the fans wanted him gone? I'm just curious what type of crazy logic you will end up with this one.


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## seifer0406

R-Star said:


> I live one province over from you, dummy. I watch the same sports shows as you, I hear the same things. TSN and Toronto media turned on Bosh a couple years before he left. It was "Can he be the number 1 guy?" which turned to "Hes not a 1a guy", to asking if he was worth the max, to fans booing the whole team off the court.
> 
> Try to write history any way you want, but you aren't going to give me a history lesson on Toronto when you're sitting in Vancouver.


I don't think this is a matter of a lack of information but rather information comprehension. Ass rash logic and human logic skills aren't exactly comparable.



> The ones where he says he'll always have a spot for Toronto in his heart?
> 
> I guess that somehow means the fanbase never wanted him gone, just like it did with your Bosh analogy right?


go on? I don't know if I can find any internet quotes since it's been so long ago. Just go look up Vince's wiki page so you can have a better clue on what actually happened. Vince wanted a winning team but Toronto couldn't build one at the time. It was a combination of bad team building and Vince himself getting injured. It was never a fan vs. VC situation.


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## R-Star

seifer0406 said:


> this entire thing is just comical. Instead of defending my point with Bosh you're going to look up Vince's quote in an attempt to show that Toronto fans wanted him out of town.
> 
> I don't even need to see the quote to know how you would butcher its meaning. Did he tank games on purpose because the fans wanted him gone? I'm just curious what type of crazy logic you will end up with this one.


Toronto (and Canada) as a whole didn't start to turn on Vince when the team faltered time and again after the 01 playoffs? They didn't start to say Vince wasn't dunking enough? That he lost his athleticism? That he was soft?

Because all that happened before the obviously fake injuries and him going from saying he loved TO to clearly wanting out.

But you're right. Vince had a diabolical plan to go and waste his prime in Toronto and then force a trade to **** them over.

Bargnani's plan was to trick them into trying to build around a guy who is clearly a #3 at best.

And with Bosh? Well he just decided he loved Toronto so much that he wanted to leave, but wanted to make sure they got something back.


Yep........ History.


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## R-Star

seifer0406 said:


> I don't think this is a matter of a lack of information but rather information comprehension. Ass rash logic and human logic skills aren't exactly comparable.
> 
> 
> 
> go on? I don't know if I can find any internet quotes since it's been so long ago. Just go look up Vince's wiki page so you can have a better clue on what actually happened. Vince wanted a winning team but Toronto couldn't build one at the time. It was a combination of bad team building and Vince himself getting injured. It was never a fan vs. VC situation.


Exactly what circles do you carry yourself in where ass rash is funny?

This is the second or third time you've said it, which means you think its hilarious. 


And to try to say it was never a fans vs VC situation is hysterically inaccurate.


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## seifer0406

I think ass rash logic is hilarious.

Again, I suggest you to go read Vince's wiki page since it sums up what actually happened quite nicely. He was hurt and blamed the team for not being contenders. Fans turned on him after rumors started that he demanded a trade.


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## R-Star

seifer0406 said:


> I think ass rash logic is hilarious.
> 
> Again, I suggest you to go read Vince's wiki page since it sums up what actually happened quite nicely. He was hurt and blamed the team for not being contenders. Fans turned on him after rumors started that he demanded a trade.


Oh, his Wiki page? You're that guy huh?

I already explained what happened with Vince. Lackadaisical fans like yourself started to turn on him a few seasons after you got a taste of the 01 playoff run. 

Did Vince handle that terribly and cry, moan and pout? Fake injury, quit dunking to make a point, and so on? He sure did. And that makes what happened to him his fault.

But for you to sit back with such a delusional "Nope. NOPE! Toronto fans stood behind him 1000% until he demanded a trade! One THOUSAND PERCENT! Just like with BOSH! and EVERYONE! READ THE WIKI!"

Again, if you don't want to live in reality, that's fine. Don't try to question my knowledge on the subject when I was watching the same sports broadcasts and posting on the same basketball forum you were though. Its pathetic. 

And ass rash is terrible.


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## R-Star

And the point is, at the end of the day there's two constants.

Toronto's "star" players being traded for basically nothing in every single trade, and "fans" such as yourself consistently looking for the next guy to overrate and then demand to send packing for another pick for another rebuild.


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## BlakeJesus

Anyways, I feel like he deserves to be worth trading for in terms of his talent, but I'm wondering who would pull the trigger?


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## R-Star

BlakeJesus said:


> Anyways, I feel like he deserves to be worth trading for in terms of his talent, but I'm wondering who would pull the trigger?


I like the idea of New York. There's 3 things working in favor of that trade.

1) Felton being injured.
2) The desperate need for a shake up, even if only for appearances.
3) They've already aggressively shopped Shumpert after alienating him.


Last year I'd laugh at trading Shumpert for Lowry. But his value has dropped like crazy with how New York has handled him. 

Move Derozan to the 3 and that's a decent look for the future.


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## seifer0406

R-Star said:


> Oh, his Wiki page? You're that guy huh?


What guy?



> I already explained what happened with Vince. Lackadaisical fans like yourself started to turn on him a few seasons after you got a taste of the 01 playoff run.
> 
> Did Vince handle that terribly and cry, moan and pout? Fake injury, quit dunking to make a point, and so on? He sure did. And that makes what happened to him his fault.
> 
> But for you to sit back with such a delusional "Nope. NOPE! Toronto fans stood behind him 1000% until he demanded a trade! One THOUSAND PERCENT! Just like with BOSH! and EVERYONE! READ THE WIKI!"


Try again. Really, I don't know why you feel negatively towards reading a wiki page. I would suggest you to do a thorough research on the history of Vince Carter and the Raptors but since it's a lot of reading and effort that I know you wouldn't do the wikipage provides a good summary for what happened.

I don't know what to argue with you when your perception of what happened is so far away from the truth.



> Again, if you don't want to live in reality, that's fine. Don't try to question my knowledge on the subject when I was watching the same sports broadcasts and posting on the same basketball forum you were though. Its pathetic.


Can you convince me again on how fans like myself drove Bosh out of town? 



> And ass rash is terrible. You're a horribly unfunny person.


And now my day is ruined. Your opinion of me is extremely important.


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## R-Star

seifer0406 said:


> What guy?
> 
> 
> 
> Try again. Really, I don't know why you feel negatively towards reading a wiki page. I would suggest you to do a thorough research on the history of Vince Carter and the Raptors but since it's a lot of reading and effort that I know you wouldn't do the wikipage provides a good summary for what happened.
> 
> I don't know what to argue with you when your perception of what happened is so far away from the truth.
> 
> 
> 
> Can you convince me again on how fans like myself drove Bosh out of town?
> 
> 
> 
> And now my day is ruined. Your opinion of me is extremely important.


Drove Bosh out of town?

I said that fans like yourself have consistently turned on and wanted the teams star player traded. I then mentioned that you made trade threads about Chris Bosh before anyone had any idea about Miami.

If you don't understand the actual discussion, I'm not sure what to do here.

Have you made trade idea's on Rudy Gay, Demar Derozan, Bargnani, and Chris Bosh?

That's the point.

You are a perpetual rebuilder. You see a shiny new draft pick and think "Hey! This guy _could_ be as good as Derozan some day. Lets trade Derozan to make room for him."


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## seifer0406

You said the fans turned on Bosh....

whatever, you know what, you're right, Toronto fans constantly want their stars traded.


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## R-Star

See you later friend.

We'll continue this next year when you make a thread about trading Val for a 1st in hopes of finding your future big man.


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## Porn Player

Now now, no need for any kind of personal insult from you guys. 

Let's keep this basketball related, espcially as it is the first time in well over a decade we have a competent GM doing smart things to make this franchise better. 

Latest rumour by the way is...



> Felton/MWP/2018 1st on the table for Lowry from NYK


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## R-Star

Porn Player said:


> Now now, no need for any kind of personal insult from you guys.
> 
> Let's keep this basketball related, espcially as it is the first time in well over a decade we have a competent GM doing smart things to make this franchise better.
> 
> Latest rumour by the way is...


You get the worse player of the deal in Felton who is on a longer contract, all in the hopes that New York sucks in 2018. There's no way of knowing what kind of team NY will be 4-5 years from now, but I'd assume they'll at least be a playoff contender since they have no issues spending. 

I'd say no to that deal and continue to shop. That trade makes it look like New York thinks its doing you a favor by taking Lowry.


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## seifer0406

If that 2018 1st isn't heavily protected I would consider it. You would figure that the Knicks/Melo will be together another 2-3 years and by then they would suck again. Not that they don't suck now but I have a feeling the 2018 Knicks will be terrible.


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## -James-

No way, that's an awful trade. Felton is the far worse player on a longer contract and taking on that first is a total gamble. The only way this makes sense is for us to make it up to the Knicks for fleecing them in the Bargnani trade.

And if I can be completely honest, I hate tanking - it is total loser talk. I'm sure I'll catch some flak for this, but there is nothing wrong with being a perpetual playoff team like Memphis or Atlanta this last handful of years that makes the 2nd round on a semi-regular basis. At the end of the day there's really only three or four contenders each season and they tend to always be the same teams. And it's very rare that these teams get there by bottoming out. It would be one thing if we were like the Bucks (sorry Milwaukee fans) and had a roster that was (is?) clearly broken and needs to start over, but we have some useful players here and sending them away for worse players and the hope that other teams be awful 5 years down the road just seems so backwards to me.


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## ozzzymandius

This just in from TSN

It appears Madison Square Garden chairman James Dolan kiboshed a potential deal between the Toronto Raptors and New York Knicks.

According to the New York Daily News, Dolan stepped in to veto a trade that would have sent Raptors point guard Kyle Lowry to the Knicks in exchange for Raymond Felton and Metta World Peace plus Iman Shumpert or Tim Hardaway Jr. or a 2018 first-round pick.
While the Raptors preferred the first round pick, Dolan, who worked with Raptors general manager Masai Ujiri to acquire Carmelo Anthony from Denver when Ujiri was with the Nuggets, had second thoughts on completing the deal.

"Dolan didn't want to get fleeced again by Masai," was how one Knicks source put it to the Daily News. "They had a deal ready."

Link: http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=438909
.

Soooo let's see what Ujiri the magician works out now. 
Looks to me like he really would have been fleecing them on that deal!! Pieces we want, plus extras we would have either flipped or waived (i.e. MWP!!)


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## wallypwd

Porn Player said:


> Trade rumours are already circling so I figured I would put together a thread to keep all of the discussion in one point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would love to get either Shumpert or Hardaway Jr.


HERE WE GO AGAIN---trade for a knick and pay his contract and he's not wantin to come to Raptors---TRACY McGRADY part 3


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## AllRim

ozzzymandius said:


> This just in from TSN
> 
> It appears Madison Square Garden chairman James Dolan kiboshed a potential deal between the Toronto Raptors and New York Knicks.
> 
> According to the New York Daily News, Dolan stepped in to veto a trade that would have sent Raptors point guard Kyle Lowry to the Knicks in exchange for Raymond Felton and Metta World Peace plus Iman Shumpert or Tim Hardaway Jr. or a 2018 first-round pick.
> While the Raptors preferred the first round pick, Dolan, who worked with Raptors general manager Masai Ujiri to acquire Carmelo Anthony from Denver when Ujiri was with the Nuggets, had second thoughts on completing the deal.
> 
> "Dolan didn't want to get fleeced again by Masai," was how one Knicks source put it to the Daily News. "They had a deal ready."
> 
> Link: http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=438909
> .
> 
> Soooo let's see what Ujiri the magician works out now.
> Looks to me like he really would have been fleecing them on that deal!! Pieces we want, plus extras we would have either flipped or waived (i.e. MWP!!)



I read this earlier today, I immediately became sad.


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## AllRim

wallypwd said:


> HERE WE GO AGAIN---trade for a knick and pay his contract and he's not wantin to come to Raptors---TRACY McGRADY part 3


Ummmmmmmmmm......

McGrady played 24 games with the Knicks, long after he left Toronto. And here we go again??? Masai just dominated the Knicks with the Bargs trade. Wally, shut it.


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## R-Star

I think Bargs has looked pretty good for New York. I'd say both teams did well in that trade.


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## Porn Player

R-Star said:


> I think Bargs has looked pretty good for New York. I'd say both teams did well in that trade.


He has looked exactly like Bargnani. He is intriguing offensively, but he is still a gaping black hole on the defensive end. His type of basketball is not conducive to winning games.


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## Porn Player

Today is also the 15th, which means more players can be involved in trades etc (those that signed extensions and/or new contracts elsewhere in the offseason), so we might see some movement. Including DeRozan.


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## R-Star

Porn Player said:


> He has looked exactly like Bargnani. He is intriguing offensively, but he is still a gaping black hole on the defensive end. His type of basketball is not conducive to winning games.


The few games I've seen people are confused about him defensively because hes actual putting out a solid defensive effort out there.

I think hes able to be a much more complete player now that the spotlight is off him.


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## Porn Player

R-Star said:


> The few games I've seen people are confused about him defensively because hes actual putting out a solid defensive effort out there.
> 
> I think hes able to be a much more complete player now that the spotlight is off him.


His man-to-man D is definitely good without question. It's his 'team' or 'help' D that is seriously flawed. He doesn't seem to understand rotations and no player in the league is nervous about taking it to hoop when Andrea is the 'protector'.


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## ozzzymandius

I'd say Bargs has been the same old up and down player he's been for us for years. 
Ranging from only 2 points against the Celtics in 23 minutes a week ago to 11pts in 32 mins against the Cavs, 8pts in 27 mins against the Bulls to before finally shaping up for the Celtics again with 22pts in 38mins and 23pts in 36mins against the Hawks. I'd say their getting exactly what we got and were much, much better off!!

But there's always hope. Maybe he'll figure it out this year and be that consistent threat from everywhere he can be!?!???? Who knows. Just glad I'm not having to wait for it anymore.


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## wallypwd

LOWREY PLAYIN GOOD---looking for trade and contract---as thjey say---to me RAPS WANT A POINT GAURD IN RETURN---but we winning now with:drums::vuvuzela:hwihomalthough the Bulls without .....:yesyesyes:


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## seifer0406

I have a feeling we're getting Shumpert. With Prigioni out the Knicks are down to one Beno Udrih as their lone point guard.


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## seifer0406

https://vine.co/v/h0KOr3vOjeI

Heres the link to Pablo's epic injury.


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## Porn Player

^^^ What the heck.


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## Bogg

seifer0406 said:


> I have a feeling we're getting Shumpert. With Prigioni out the Knicks are down to one Beno Udrih as their lone point guard.


Well, they do have Chris Smith.......


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## AllRim

wallypwd said:


> LOWREY PLAYIN GOOD---looking for trade and contract---as thjey say---to me RAPS WANT A POINT GAURD IN RETURN---but we winning now with:drums::vuvuzela:hwihomalthough the Bulls without .....:yesyesyes:


you alright man?


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## ozzzymandius

^^^ I thought it was just me that couldn't decipher wally's comments. 
Hahahaa .... Maybe he was with Rob Ford at the time he wrote that up??


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## AllRim

Apparently NYK talks are dead



> Attempts between the New York Knicks and Toronto Raptors to revive discussions centered on Kyle Lowry remain dead, according to a source.
> 
> The Knicks have pursed Lowry to bolster their point guard spot.
> 
> The Knicks are unwilling to part with their upcoming first round pick years down the line.


http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/teams/New-York-Knicks/20/news/wiretap

It is from bleacher report though, so take it with a grain of salt.

BTW, who is for trying to extend K-Lo


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## seifer0406

AllRim said:


> Apparently NYK talks are dead
> 
> 
> 
> http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/teams/New-York-Knicks/20/news/wiretap
> 
> It is from bleacher report though, so take it with a grain of salt.
> 
> BTW, who is for trying to extend K-Lo


If he's willing to stay for the MLE or something close to that than sure I wouldn't mind keeping him. Lowry has been good in the past but has also been somewhat injury prone. I wouldn't be comfortable if we're paying him as a semi-star point guard (8-10 mil a year).


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## ozzzymandius

I think the other reason for talks dying out is cause he's been invaluable every since Gay left. If I was Ujiri then I'd for sure not want to loose him now. Chemistry is a funny thing and this is the best we've seen in a few years. 
I'd be down with MLE for him next year too if this keeps up.


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## Porn Player

He's playing fantastic. He has that level of talent, he just doesn't always put forth.


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## seifer0406

I really hope MU would pull the trigger now when his value is high. The recent success is just fools gold. The thing that I'm afraid the most now is that we somehow ends up making the playoffs with a 30-35 win team and loses our lottery pick.


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## Porn Player

Yeah, I would be much happier with a complete blow up. 

Keep Ross, Valanciunas, Amir Johnson and possibly DeRozan as core rotation players and nuke the rest of the team for picks and any/or youth.


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## seifer0406

I still say we should shop DeRozan around to see what we can get for him. Ross is basically what DeRozan was a few years ago. Flashes of excellence but wildly inconsistent. The consistency will come with playing time and when Ross matures he should be even better than DeRozan. Every bit as athletic as DD and has much better range. This isn't a VC/Tmac situation where the duo can play together since neither Ross/DD has the playmaking skills to make the tandem work long term. Both are scorers and eventually one of them needs to go.


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## Porn Player

^ Yeah, and that is why I added DeRozan to the 'potential' list. However, I wouldn't want to move him to simply boost the tank, I would want some kind of good value back. I love the kid and he has worked his socks off since being in Toronto and I for one, am very grateful for his dedication to a cause that probably hasn't deserved it for the duration of his career.


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## ozzzymandius

Can you say contract year !!!
Kids' performance is off the charts these days!


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## Junkyard Dog13

keep lowry, the nucleus that is building looks very promising, I think demar should be at sf and ross at sg since, ross has better range and is more dependable to hit the 3.

If Lowry play remains this high then it is very hard to decide, re-sign him at a reasonable cost, 3 years 20 mill or trade him for 2 vets or 1 vet and 1 1st rounder.
However I love the swagger lowry brings on the d end, I think vasq is better off backing up kyle, until he is consistent.

say since his trade value is at all time high throw some names at who we can get back area of need SF and SG


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## R-Star

seifer0406 said:


> The Knicks would have to be retarded to trade Shumpert for Lowry. The problem still remains for the Knicks, a lack of perimeter defenders. Shumpert is their only perimeter defender and unless they're getting one in return they're not trading Shumpert.
> 
> I would however consider taking on Amare's contract if it means we get Shumpert. If we can include Landry Fields and Chuck Hayes into the trade we're only taking on 10 more mil of contract next season since Fields makes a staggering 8.5 mil next year.
> 
> Getting Shumpert would also allow us to explore trade options with DeRozan. While not a popular opinion trading DeRozan now has many benefits. His value has never been higher and trading him away now would allow us to effectively tank the rest of the season.


Hey, good call Seifer. Too bad the Raps never followed your advice, they could be contending for the East this year if they listened to you....


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## R-Star

seifer0406 said:


> I still say we should shop DeRozan around to see what we can get for him. Ross is basically what DeRozan was a few years ago. Flashes of excellence but wildly inconsistent. The consistency will come with playing time and when Ross matures he should be even better than DeRozan. Every bit as athletic as DD and has much better range. This isn't a VC/Tmac situation where the duo can play together since neither Ross/DD has the playmaking skills to make the tandem work long term. Both are scorers and eventually one of them needs to go.


Aaaaaand cue this year where you shit talk Ross who in this quote a year ago is "basically DeRozan". 

:laugh:


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