# Where does Dirk rank amongst the 4s?



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

Simple enough question. My rankings:

Duncan
KG
*Dirk*
Brand
Amare
Pau 

:whoknows:


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## Wade2Bosh (Mar 31, 2004)

My top 5 are:
Duncan
Dirk
KG
Brand
Pau


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## t1no (Jul 10, 2005)

Duncan 
Dirk
KG (Could be #1 if he was in a good team)
Brand
Paul


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## Ruff Draft (Nov 21, 2004)

#1 or #2. Duncan and Dirk can switch with eachother any given night. Garnett is better I think but the Wolves need to prove themselves this year.

Duncan
Dirk
KG
Brand
Amare


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## mavsmania41 (Mar 27, 2005)

Dirk
Amare based on his 05 season.
Duncan
Kg
Brand


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## edwardcyh (Dec 13, 2005)

Amare
KG
Dirk
Brand
Duncan


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

edwardcyh said:


> Amare
> KG
> Dirk
> Brand
> Duncan


You really think Brand and Amare are better than TD or is this Mavs bias?


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## Ninjatune (May 1, 2006)

Duncan
Dirk
KG
Amare
Brand


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

I think he's second without much of an argument.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

Rawse said:


> I think he's second without much of an argument.


 Even if my argument is that KG is just a better player than him? 

Assuming you think Duncan's first.


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

_Dre_ said:


> Even if my argument is that KG is just a better player than him?


Yeah, but that'd be your opinion, and you're entitled to it. 



> Assuming you think Duncan's first.


Of course.


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## edwardcyh (Dec 13, 2005)

_Dre_ said:


> You really think Brand and Amare are better than TD or is this Mavs bias?


I am basing my ranking based on last season, so TD does come in after the others.

I rank Amare on top, quite honestly, is largely because of Steve Nash. Nash made Amare an incredible C-F... same thing he did for the rest of the PHX team. Without Nash, Amare will probably be another average #4. As long as Amare is on the same team as Nash, I don't see him any where else on the list.

A *healthy *TD would obviously outrank Dirk and Brand. :biggrin:


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

edwardcyh said:


> I am basing my ranking based on last season, so TD does come in after the others.
> 
> I rank Amare on top, quite honestly, is largely because of Steve Nash. Nash made Amare an incredible C-F... same thing he did for the rest of the PHX team. Without Nash, Amare will probably be another average #4. As long as Amare is on the same team as Nash, I don't see him any where else on the list.
> 
> A *healthy *TD would obviously outrank Dirk and Brand. :biggrin:


 Ok...just wondering.


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## edwardcyh (Dec 13, 2005)

Since we are talking about TD, do you think he's "peaked" in his NBA career?


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

edwardcyh said:


> Since we are talking about TD, do you think he's "peaked" in his NBA career?


Definitely. 

I think those two MVP years were his peak. I don't think he's going to significantly get worse for another 2-4 years, but he's...trying to sound as diplomatic as possible...on the other side of his prime IMO.

EDIT: I do think a lot of people are unfairly forecasting his decline because of that injury last year. I knew he was conserving himself for the playoffs last year, which frustrated me when people were saying he was falling off.


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## edwardcyh (Dec 13, 2005)

_Dre_ said:


> Definitely.
> 
> I think those two MVP years were his peak. I don't think he's going to significantly get worse for another 2-4 years, but he's...trying to sound as diplomatic as possible...on the other side of his prime IMO.
> 
> EDIT: I do think a lot of people are unfairly forecasting his decline because of that injury last year. I knew he was conserving himself for the playoffs last year, which frustrated me when people were saying he was falling off.


So you do think TD's "over the hill" when it comes to his NBA career.

Just out of curiosity, what are your thoughts on Dirks' NBA career?


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## L (Sep 20, 2005)

Here is mine:

Duncan
KG
Dirk
Brand
Gasol
Amare


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

edwardcyh said:


> So you do think TD's "over the hill" when it comes to his NBA career.
> 
> Just out of curiosity, what are your thoughts on Dirks' NBA career?


Over the hill implies a significant drop in production to me. He's still great, still my best player in the league..but I think his absolute best days are behind him. You can still pencil him in for 22-10-3 for the next few years though. 

As far as Dirk...I don't know what to make of him completely. Right now, it looks like he's shaping up to be a Patrick Ewing type. A great franchise player for a nice team for a good 10 years...but a guy who always ended up falling to the superior talent. I hope this isn't the case. I think the next two years are his absolute peak, so hopefully he'll prove me wrong.


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## Pimped Out (May 4, 2005)

t1no said:


> Duncan
> Dirk
> KG (Could be #1 if he was in a good team)
> Brand
> Paul


 that doesnt make sense to me. either kg is the best player or he isnt. how good his teammates are doesnt change how good he is.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

I Start Fires said:


> that doesnt make sense to me. either kg is the best player or he isnt. how good his teammates are doesnt change how good he is.


 Exactly...but you're more brave than me...I didn't want to bring it up.


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## xray (Feb 21, 2005)

_Dre_ said:


> Over the hill implies a significant drop in production to me. He's still great, still my best player in the league..but I think his absolute best days are behind him. You can still pencil him in for 22-10-3 for the next few years though.
> 
> As far as Dirk...I don't know what to make of him completely. Right now, it looks like he's shaping up to be a Patrick Ewing type. A great franchise player for a nice team for a good 10 years...but a guy who always ended up falling to the superior talent. I hope this isn't the case. I think the next two years are his absolute peak, so hopefully he'll prove me wrong.


I tried to rep you, but it said I had to spread it around.  

As long as Dirk doesn't start stumbling across the lane - wait, don't say it - I won't compare him to Ewing. 

But I do think both Duncan and Dirk have at least hit their plateau, with Dirk perhaps staying here for 2-3 additional years. Amare's a "show me something" at this point. Otherwise Dirk, Duncan and Garnett have this in common, imo - they have nowhere else to go...

...but down.


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## Saint Baller (May 3, 2006)

I actually think Dirk is the best forward in the league right now, arguably Duncan could take number 1 over Dirk because he owneed us in the playoffs

My list:

Dirk
TD
KG
Brand


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## t1no (Jul 10, 2005)

I Start Fires said:


> that doesnt make sense to me. either kg is the best player or he isnt. how good his teammates are doesnt change how good he is.


He needs to be in a winning team because i don't think he tried really hard last year.


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## edwardcyh (Dec 13, 2005)

_Dre_ said:


> Over the hill implies a significant drop in production to me. He's still great, still my best player in the league..but I think his absolute best days are behind him. You can still pencil him in for 22-10-3 for the next few years though.
> 
> As far as Dirk...I don't know what to make of him completely. Right now, it looks like he's shaping up to be a Patrick Ewing type. A great franchise player for a nice team for a good 10 years...but a guy who always ended up falling to the superior talent. I hope this isn't the case. I think the next two years are his absolute peak, so hopefully he'll prove me wrong.


Oh no.... When I said "Over the hill," it did not imply a sharp hill. LOL... Maybe I should have used "hump" instead. To expect TD's numbers to drop off drastically over the next years would be a little ridiculous... I see TD about the same as KG: Both players are GREAT PLAYERS, but both are past their prime. They will continue to perform for their franchise and churn in their numbers for the stat sheets, but they will have to start relying on the teammates for overall success of their teams.

As for Dirk, his performance last year completely took me my surprise because I thought he peaked during the prior season under Nellie. Plus, I never expected Dirk to transition from run-and-shoot to AJ's slow-paced and defensive strategies. Not many offensive oriented players, especially outside shooter, can make that type of transition and have immediate success the following season.... (Dallas DID make it to the Finals!)

Of coursse, I am not saying Dirk has become AJ's ideal player. There is certainly room to improve, ie. his passing skills. Because there is room to improve, there is hope that he hasn't reached his prime....

A Patrick Ewing type player on Dallas? :jawdrop: LOL... THAT would be nice!

:cheers:


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

edwardcyh said:


> As for Dirk, his performance last year completely took me my surprise because I thought he peaked during the prior season under Nellie. Plus, I never expected Dirk to transition from run-and-shoot to AJ's slow-paced and defensive strategies. Not many offensive oriented players, especially outside shooter, can make that type of transition and have immediate success the following season.... (Dallas DID make it to the Finals!)
> 
> Of coursse, I am not saying Dirk has become AJ's ideal player. There is certainly room to improve, ie. his passing skills. Because there is room to improve, there is hope that he hasn't reached his prime....


All that's definitely true. I think if he could stand to, along with passing, manage to get a move or two in the post, AJ would love him even more. I figured it was a matter of time before Dirk transformed all of this groundbreaking athleticism to the defensive end, and it just so happens AJ was here to force it to occur faster. I definitely think Dirk's a better player now than he could ever be under Nelson. 

As far as Amare, I think he's in the same boat as Dirk a few years ago. A great offensive talent who just gets fed. Nash is really in the same boat with the 4s we're talking about, so Amare better learn from Dirk and become a more independent player. Similiar to Dirk toning it down from 3, Amare is gonna have to learn how to operate as a "true" 4. A franchise PF is probably second in line after the point as far as who the ball goes through, and Amare is not capable of that at all yet.

The monster act always works when you're up and coming, but noone's been able to just rely on athleticism forever. If anything, this Amare injury could force him to become a better postup player. The thing a lot of young 4s are missing is post maneuvers. Bosh, Randolph Howard, Amare, all of them, to this point are mostly athletes offensibely. They need to learn from TD, KG, and even Shaq as far as learning some moves down there. That makes them that much better, and prolongs their careers.


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## Flash is the Future (May 12, 2006)

Just my opinion. I value D a lot.

1)Duncan
2)KG
3)Brand
4)Dirk
5)Amare


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## TheRoc5 (Mar 1, 2005)

1.duncan
2.kg
3.dirk
4. brand
5.amare


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