# How is Luc Longley remembered as a Bull by knowledgeable fans



## FJ_of _Rockaway (May 28, 2002)

I will not offer an opinion at this stage ( even though I have a detailed one ) as I would prefer to have some unencumbered opinion first on Longley

I would encourage as many of you as possible to contribute your thoughts 

Thanks


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## ScottVdub (Jul 9, 2002)

Luc Longley was a player I had mixed feelings about. I remember that he could rebound and he had a pretty nice jump shot from close to mid range. He used to make me nervous alot during the course of the game, being a bulls fan, because I do recall him getting alot of turnovers and seemed clumsy at times. I remember him and Dennis Rodman doing a pretty good job guarding shaq and other big men, so he used his body size to his advantage but I feel that we could have had a better center. I'd say he would have been a good back up center on alot of teams and been able to come in and play around 15-20 mpg. He wasnt a bad player by any means but I always felt that we could have done better at the center position. I cant complain, while he was here we won 3 rings.


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## pduh02 (May 28, 2002)

Luc Longly to me is nothing more then an average player like other centers we have like Bill Cartwright, Will Predure, and Bill Weington. 

I don't really like Longly but he's a good average player to help you out more like a role-player one of the role-players in the Bulls glory days. This guy can do some a bit dirty work like rebounds like other big man suppose to do and other average player they do.


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## Louie (Jun 13, 2002)

He was big, he could rebound ok, he did a decent job on Shaq defensively, and he could give us 6 fouls a game.


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## JB (Jul 12, 2002)

All I remeber about Luc is that it seemed like he used to shoot 100% from the side of the basket and thrn he would shoot like 3% everywhere else...:laugh:


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## Songcycle (May 29, 2002)

He was a very good player who did a good job at the little things that centers do that don't show up in the box score that centers never get credit for.


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## BullsNews (Jun 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Songcycle</b>!
> He was a very good player who did a good job at the little things that centers do that don't show up in the box score that centers never get credit for.


Very well put, Songcycle. 

I remember Luc being an outstanding passer, he always knew where to find MJ and Pip cutting to the basket.

And Luc knew his role- if a shot came off the rim and Rodman was close enough to grab it, Luc would always let him have the rebound.

I'd say that during the 3-peat, he was as good as Brad Miller is at this stage in his career.


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## Songcycle (May 29, 2002)

Thanks BullsNews and a very happy birthday, many more.


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## Dan Rosenbaum (Jun 3, 2002)

I think was Luc was a good defender against big centers, a fair defender against everyone else, a fair to poor rebounder, a fair passer for a center, a fair to good shooter for a center, and a poor post-up player for a center. But his skills (or lack thereof) fit well with the Bulls at the time.

I don't think even in his prime he was nearly as good as Brad Miller is now. Miller is a monster on the offensive boards and is much tougher than Luc. Miller also can hit mid-range shots and has a post-up game.


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## BullsNews (Jun 7, 2002)

You're right, NC, "as good as Miller" was a bit of a reach.

How about as good as Todd MacCulloh?


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## Wishbone (Jun 10, 2002)

Luc seemed like a pretty tough guy actually. I didn't hate him, but I hated watching him try to rebound most of the time. (I always saw him just slapping at the ball instead of trying to catch it. kinda defeats the purpose behind rebounding...)

when Luc first came to the bulls in 94, in trade for Stacey King, I was pretty impressed. He hustled, could score, and was not afraid to put his big body on guys and bang (both sides of the ball)

then, a funny thing happened. the 1994 Eastern Confrence Semi's... Luc went up against a highly motivated, and still at the top of his game Patrick Ewing. Ewing took Luc to school at every oppourtunity, intimidating Luc the whole time. it seemed to me that Luc was never the same player again. he never once since that playoff series demonstrated any aggresiveness or very much desire.

he still contributed, and would have been an excellent back up center. however, the Bulls lack of talent at the center position basically forced Phil Jackson to start him. still -- three championships won in five seasons he was with the time leaves very little room for real complaints.


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## JB (Jul 12, 2002)

Hey FJ_OF_ROCKAWAY isn't it your turn now !?!?!?


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

*A classic underachiever*

Longley had excellent skills for a man his size. He was a solid jump shooter, had decent footwork and hands, and true NBA bulk and height. 

It was clear in the intensity of his play that basketball wasn't even a top five priority in his life. His motto may as well have been "I'm just happy to be here."

Still, he clogged the middle nicely and turned in enough timely offense (he did a really nice job in the Utah series) to leave me with fond memories.

It's a nice footnote to realize he's going to count against the Knicks cap for 2-3 more years, too.


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## Cyanobacteria (Jun 25, 2002)

*LUUUUUUUUUC!!!*

I remember Luc as fitting the triangle well since he passed very well for a big man and set good picks. I remember wincing after a few of his post moves, but being equally impressed by his offense at other times. His d and rebounding were adequate, again hard to argue against 3 rings. I felt he got the shaft from refs a lot by being so big, but then again he wouldn't draw a charge, just stood there while some puny little man flew into him, bounced off him, another foul on Luc. Good times.

I also remember him single-handedly funding the Australian national team for international play. Stand-up guy.

You gotta love Luc.


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## Dr. Kerr (Jun 21, 2002)

Luc did a good job for the bulls. He was a good center for the triangle. He was a good passer from the post and he hit that mid-range jumper with consistency. He had that nice past to a cutting MJ which allowed him to finally dunk on Mutombo and wag the finger. 

Luc was a big body which clogged the lane and he rebounded fairly well and finished pretty good under the basket. He was a tad lead footed (but PG speed compared to bagaric).


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## Kneepad (Jun 24, 2002)

Bad body surfer.


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## transplant (Jul 31, 2002)

Good player. Very unselfish. Always played within the team concept. Set great screens, ate up space in the middle and consistently hit the open shot when available. Excellent clubhouse guy with a great sense of humor.

If you're making a list of the best NBA centers of all time, Luc doesn't belong on page one, no matter how long page one is. However, he was just about a perfect fit for those Bulls' teams.


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## Electric Slim (Jul 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Kneepad</b>!
> Bad body surfer.


:banana:


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## FJ_of _Rockaway (May 28, 2002)

Winston Churchill once described Russia as a riddle wrapped up inside an enigma

If he was alive and an NBA fan watching the Bulls dominate the 90's he may well have applied such a description to Luc Longley.

An incredibly intelligent , yet sensitive man , Luc spent much of his life being painfully aware of his comparative physical oddity - and instead of using his size to retaliate to barbs , he would take it in his stride - yet clam up and get embarrassed that would further compound his goofiness.

By his own admissions, he was always a type of kid growing up that responded better to positive reinforcement rather than someone try and bully performance from him

By virtue of his size however he dominated State and National under age competitions growing up in Western Australia - and later State and National League competitions before he headed off to University of New Mexico where he enjoyed a reasonably successful college career.

Luc's parents were both tall people that both played basketball for Australia in the respective men and women's national teams and they were solid middle class working people. This is important to note because Luc was imbued with traditional Australian "working man" values , which , to understand this lore is all about modesty in accomplishments and taking pride in honest labour - and the high flyers of industry only being able to do what they do on the back of the underappreciated working man that does all the little things out of the glare of the limelight

I think it is this base philosophy of " working man's" values that helped Luc define his role more acutely and provided the badge of honour to wear in being this person/basketballer that he wanted to be. 

This was also commensurate with his skill base as he was never going to be a domiant Center and he knew this, accepted this , and was smart enough to try and develop his game within his limitations.

He took pride in , as he states , _"anchoring the defense" _ and _"minding the safe at the back while the Dobermans ( MJ and Pip ) patrolled the perimeter" _

Being a big body, providing defensive services, and playing his role within that team defensive scheme meant something to him too. To quote him again _" Having Dennis on board was great . It allowed me to gamble on defense occasionally and I knew there was no way Dennis was going to let someone in behind me. He cared that much- just as he knew that I would always cover his ar$e too . Some guys in this league don't want to get caught looking bad once the defensive breach has occurred and will step away rather than risk looking bad or getting caught on the wrong end of a dunk poster _

He was the perfect foil to Rodman and they complemented each other brilliantly. Rodman the athletic extrovet ( in the public eye at least ) , Luc the shy goofy giant . Rodman was somewhat of an outsider when he first came on board as Luc may have been to some degree as well. But when Dennis showed Luc acceptance , Luc responded in spades

This really underscored how to get the best out of Luc. 

Phil Jackson had already sensed this - would ride him hard but would still build trust and confidence with him - and once you showed Luc you were on his side and were prepared to open up to him and believe in him - you got the most out of what he had to give

I think the Rodman/Longley interior defense combination is much underrated and extremely crucial to the 2nd 3 peat . The reason why it was so effective is because Dennis accepted Luc and Luc responded in kind. Out of this bond, they were totally committed to each other in what they were doing on the court.

I think other teammates gradually picked up on this in time and Scottie Pippen gave encouragement - both publicly and privately as did Steve Kerr who was also a vocal supporter - and who together with Jud Buechler made up the other two thirds of "The 3 Amigos"

Luc bugged the crap out of MJ for a long long time and it is questionable as to whether MJ really accepted him . Insofar as basketball was concerned, MJ resented Luc's physical limitations such as the fact that Luc could not catch on the run when thundering down the lane for the emphatic finish - which led to the immortal classic _ if you drop another one of my passes I'm going to hit you in the goddamn head with it _

It was MJ that had to adjust _ his _ game to the limitations of the role players round him ( Longley, Kerr, etc ) and this did not rest well with him at first . 

Whilst he may have accepted this in time as being necessary to achieve what he wanted to achieve , MJ had the heart of a killer and deep down could not understand those that did not have the same respect for the law of the jungle. MJ was cool toward Luc , no doubt , and a large part of that ( as we have recently seen with Kwame Brown ) is that MJ can't give what someone may need from him ( affirmation ) which ultimately may make that person more productive . He sees this as a sign of character weakness and in his Darwinist view of the world - the weak get eliminated.

I wonder if MJ ever realised that it really was a case of "it takes all types" . 

Longley's persona , whilst perhaps disrespected by MJ , was very important to the overall mix and helped neutralise a lot of more powerful personality dynamics that were in play. These types of subtelties often get overlooked , and frankly, this is where the skill of Jerry Krause in picking personalties ( where that bonus/option is available ) comes into play - and it is this skill that makes him a better GM that most people are prepared to give him credit for.

Longley was the perfect fit. 




* Non threatening personality 

* Big body that could fill the lane

* A much under rated man on man defender ( that would get BS calls from the officials at times that other more celebrated big men would not get )

* Very intelligent, could read a game extremely well , be in the right spot at the right time in setting picks or in positioning himself for his adequate jumper

* Maybe not a dominant rebounder for his size although I think he would have fared better if there was not as a domiant rebounder as Rodman he was playing alongside of - still an adequate rebounder , BUT a much underrated blocker . Luc could basically seal off the weak side all on his own and he did it all the time - and by playing this overlooked and unglamourous role it enhanced Dennis Rodman's rebound opportunities . Dennis would have still gotten his bag of boards night in and night out but I still say Rodman and Longley worked the boards as a team with Luc providing a lot of the bulk / donkey work.

* Totally gifted passer. Very creative and much underrated. Very much suited to a structrured half court offense and therefore the triangle. Could really create out of the pivot - snappy bounce passers to the cutters, intuitive ball reversal to the weakside for the spot up shooter - great lob passer to the man in the deep post where there was advantage At this time during the 2nd 3 peat I would have put him in the top few passing Centers in the league - and this in fact was one of the principal reasons he was acquired - along with his bulk/inside presence and his sound man on man defense

As my man Cyanobacteria says :

_ You gotta love Luc _

I do - the man's a great guy and definately was a contributor in his time as a Bull


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## Wishbone (Jun 10, 2002)

damn... FJ, you took the cake. once again.

I am honored to have read that post - an unbelieveably insightful post on an often overlooked NBA player.

it's easy to find some insight on the MJ's, Kobe's and AI's of the league... but the Longleys? the Spencers? the Garretts??

damn.


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## Songcycle (May 29, 2002)

Really brilliant post FJ and I mean that sincerely. This is a post that needs to be read several times, because it has numerous layers that so accutately reflect not only Longley but the team itself and the interplay on the court and some of the problems off the court that particulary extend to the Wiz today. (MJ)
FJ also shows a classic understanding of what centers do and how when they do it well, it is within the frame of the team and often gies unnoticed.
I urge all of you to go to the bottom where it says rate this rate and in honor of one of the finest threads of one of our finest and brightest lights, give it 5 stars.
It is this kind of insight that makes it worthwhile to put up with some of the silliness that exists here.


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## pduh02 (May 28, 2002)

I don't hate Luc personal I just hate him in the basketball perspective way. 

Like I said my early post on this thread he's an average player who can do little things that will help this team win. Doing some a bit dirty work and all........


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## FJ_of _Rockaway (May 28, 2002)

Thanks Song and Wishbone for the responses that gave me a kick - mainly for the fact that you got and felt what I wanted to say about Luc

It is a pleasue to write when you have pleasure to write about


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## chifaninca (May 28, 2002)

FJ and others.....

I just wanted to drop a quick note to say that you guys have really done a good job lately of expressing your points with information, passion and open minds......

Since I read everypost now, I just thought I would point out what a pleasure it is being on the boards with you guys.


Keep it up.......We haven't even begun to get to the juicy stuff......PRe-Season soon, then the regular season......I like it. You guys are staying sharp in the off-season. No fines here. LOL



Chifaninca


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>chifaninca</b>!
> FJ and others.....
> 
> I just wanted to drop a quick note to say that you guys have really done a good job lately of expressing your points with information, passion and open minds......
> ...


I agree!!! Keep it going guys!


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## transplant (Jul 31, 2002)

FJ, excellent work as usual. Obvious that you have a special feeling for, and understanding of this unsung hero. Just my opinion, but I think it should be shared with a wider audience. With very little work, it's a great article.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Longley has 3 things that Patrick Ewing doesn't.

Rings.

Enough said.


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## Cyanobacteria (Jun 25, 2002)

*LUUUUUUUUUUUC!!!*

No, FJ, you da man.

Especially great insights on Luc's upbringing and perspective. I never tired of Luc's quirky smile, on and off court. If you watched really close, every once in a great while, you could see him flash that smile after MJ got done berating him. Another silly little man who bounced off Luc verbally instead of physically.


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## Salvaged Ship (Jul 10, 2002)

The one thing you can say about Longley is he was effective enough to help the Bulls win 3 championships. He plugged up the middle just good enough for Jordan, Pippen, and Rodman to do their thing. Could someone else of done it and done it better? Most definitely. But he was a huge body that used his fouls, and the Bulls were able to hide his weaknesses and play Rodman at center when needed. I still cringe when I think about him getting fed in the post. How many times did he make a post move and get stripped of the ball?

If Longley was on another team that didn't have superstars at 3 other positions then you would probably think a lot different of his game. I do think that contract he got after leaving the Bulls was incredibly high, and Jordan should of gotten half of that money for making Longley look like a better player than he was.

Longley was a big body who filled a role. He was an extremely fortunate fellow to get traded to the Bulls and have Jordan un-retire in 95. He did what he was asked and it was effective enough to help the Bulls win. Good on him.


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## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>NCBullsFan</b>!
> I don't think even in his prime he was nearly as good as Brad Miller is now. Miller is a monster on the offensive boards and is much tougher than Luc. Miller also can hit mid-range shots and has a post-up game.


Good thread.

I'm coming to this party a little late, but was surprised that Miller vs. Longley did not get more debate.

IMHO, Longley as a Bull was clearly better than Miller as a Bull. Longley had more offensive skills but did not display them with frequency as he was always the 4th option on the floor. He could board as well but primarlily blocked out so that guys like Rodman, Pip, MJ and Harp could go get the ball. He definelty could pass better. On D, neither man's strong suit, Longley used his greater mass pretty effectively.


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## Coldchi2 (Jun 12, 2002)

fj that was a truley insightfull post


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## benfica (Jul 17, 2002)

*FJ_of _Rockaway*

You really have some writing talent there.

Are you a sports writer.


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