# Problem with the Lakers



## mattematikz (Nov 30, 2005)

after watching 13 laker games, i've come to the conclusion that the problem with the lakers is Kobe Bryant. towards the end of the 4th quarter, when the lakers are making a quick run, it seems as if kobe is always forcing his shots and never plays within the offense. if kobe actually made those difficult shots, i wouldnt complain. but he misses almost 70% of the time, which is frustrating to see. if kobe bryant started playing within the offense, stopped isolating himself, and at least tried to get his teammates involved during the final minutes of the game, i think the lakers would be a better team than their record shows

on a positive note: i like how andrew bynum played tonight against the spurs


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## Pnack (Aug 23, 2005)

too many threads about Kobe's shot selection these days...


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## Kneejoh (Dec 21, 2004)

KobeBryant08 said:


> too many threads about Kobe's shot selection these days...


 I have to admit us Lakers fans are some of the worst fans in the league, were not consistent, one day we love a guy and will defend him to death, the next day we treat him like garbage.


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## Pnack (Aug 23, 2005)

ive always felt the same about Kobe..i know he's gonna put up a lot of shots and without another threat on the floor he's not gonna hit alot of them but he's still my fav player for life.


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## mattematikz (Nov 30, 2005)

i still like kobe bryant and hes still my favorite player, but just watching him try to be the hero @ the end of games by hoisting up difficult shots is just bad basketball in my opinion. he should just play within the triangle offense and let the game come to him. this isnt a kobe-hater thread, its just me stating my opinion on how the lakers/kobe plays their offense


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## HuntDizzle (Nov 29, 2005)

If you do actually watch the games, then you should know that what you are blaming on Kobe is not his fault. Everyone else on the Lakers defers to him, they watch him when he has the ball...look for him when they have the ball....then they pass it to Kobe with 5 seconds left on the shot clock. What is he supposed to do? Not shoot it? Make another pass? Nope, he gets stuck chucking it up. And when he does chuck it, the other team is usually doubling him b/c they knew the ball would go to him, and they know that he HAS TO SHOOT. The amount of shots that he is forced to take to beat the clock drastically affects his field goal % negatively. That's what happens when you don't have a legitimate 2nd scoring option that the other team has to think might beat them, they can just double the guy they know will take the shot. It's also not about Kobe not being able to play within the offense, it's about being stuck with 4 other guys on the cout who don't even understand the offense, and therefore cannot execute it. Do you think the Triangle is designed to have the best player take deep jumpers to beat the shot clock every possession? Not quite. Before you are too quick to blame it all on Kobe, make sure you actually analyze the whole situation.

The only correct thing you said is in regards to Bynum's play tonight. The kid is going to be a MONSTER!

Out.


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## Pnack (Aug 23, 2005)

i dont know about today's game cuz it wasnt on tv for me, but the game against the nets made it clear. When Kobe looks to score he keeps the Lakers in it. When it goes into overtime and Kobe isnt looking to score we loose. So he's gonna get critized for not taking enough shots if he cuts down, and we will still loose. So i dunno its just frustrating


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## HuntDizzle (Nov 29, 2005)

Kobe shouldn't just try to be the Hero at the end of every game? You're missing the big picture here. If the other players would get their heads in the game and make some plays during the first 45 minutes, Kobe wouldn't have to be the Hero in the last 3 mins. of every game. If Lamar would assert himself, run the offense, pull Kwame's head out, develop a post presence....etc...etc., then there wouldn't be a need for a Hero night in and night out.


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## mattematikz (Nov 30, 2005)

HuntDizzle said:


> Kobe shouldn't just try to be the Hero at the end of every game? You're missing the big picture here. If the other players would get their heads in the game and make some plays during the first 45 minutes, Kobe wouldn't have to be the Hero in the last 3 mins. of every game. If Lamar would assert himself, run the offense, pull Kwame's head out, develop a post presence....etc...etc., then there wouldn't be a need for a Hero night in and night out.


what u say is true. the other lakers do to need step up their game. but still.. kobe bryant shouldnt force the issue all the time when they are close to catching up to the other team.


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## HuntDizzle (Nov 29, 2005)

I agree. He can force it at times. I just really think that if they had a legit 2nd option that posed a threat, Kobe could actually gain trust in them and not have to force the issue. That could also open up for easier shots for Kobe as well.

Bottom Line: It's going to be a long season. Hopefully the progress of Bynum (and doubtfully Kwame) will be enough to take solstice in.


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## mattematikz (Nov 30, 2005)

HuntDizzle said:


> I agree. He can force it at times. I just really think that if they had a legit 2nd option that posed a threat, Kobe could actually gain trust in them and not have to force the issue. That could also open up for easier shots for Kobe as well.
> 
> Bottom Line: It's going to be a long season. Hopefully the progress of Bynum (and doubtfully Kwame) will be enough to take solstice in.


yeah...hopefully phil plays bynum more because he seems to have a more promising future than mihm and kwame. i noticed bynum was playing some nice help defense tonight too


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## madskillz1_99 (Dec 5, 2004)

HuntDizzle said:


> I agree. He can force it at times. I just really think that if they had a legit 2nd option that posed a threat, Kobe could actually gain trust in them and not have to force the issue. That could also open up for easier shots for Kobe as well.
> 
> Bottom Line: It's going to be a long season. Hopefully the progress of Bynum (and doubtfully Kwame) will be enough to take solstice in.


take solstice in!?! I think you meant take "solace" in. But other than that, good post, i agree.


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## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

HuntDizzle said:


> If you do actually watch the games, then you should know that what you are blaming on Kobe is not his fault. Everyone else on the Lakers defers to him, they watch him when he has the ball...look for him when they have the ball....then they pass it to Kobe with 5 seconds left on the shot clock. What is he supposed to do? Not shoot it? Make another pass? Nope, he gets stuck chucking it up. And when he does chuck it, the other team is usually doubling him b/c they knew the ball would go to him, and they know that he HAS TO SHOOT. The amount of shots that he is forced to take to beat the clock drastically affects his field goal % negatively. That's what happens when you don't have a legitimate 2nd scoring option that the other team has to think might beat them, they can just double the guy they know will take the shot. It's also not about Kobe not being able to play within the offense, it's about being stuck with 4 other guys on the cout who don't even understand the offense, and therefore cannot execute it. Do you think the Triangle is designed to have the best player take deep jumpers to beat the shot clock every possession? Not quite. Before you are too quick to blame it all on Kobe, make sure you actually analyze the whole situation.
> .


uke:


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

Just a really crappy game from Kobe. There was zero reason to take that many shots as he did, everyone was contributing, most notably Lamar. The 30 shots make sense when Lamar and others don't nut up, but today it was just stupid basketball. It's odd too because Kobe has always had the Bowen and the Spurs' number, but today he just forced probably 10-12 shots he shouldn't have. 

Chalk it up to selfishness or whatever, I have no idea what he was thinking out there. It was pathetic really.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

Kobe is losing trust in these guys. In what everyone considers a good game from the rest of the Laker players, they shot 39% from the field (24-61), so even though he is trying to do way too much, it's not like he is out there with good players. And I agree with the point that guys are deferring to him too much. 

A lot needs to be patched up, and it goes from top to bottom, starting with Kobe all the way down to the 15th man to Phil to his staff. A couple of really pathetic performances in a row. 

On a positive note, Kobe's defense has look superb thus far. Silver fining for ya.


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## Serg LeMagnifique (Aug 23, 2005)

He is trying to have confidence in the team, but is going to be difficult. I mean, Mihm plays good one game and then has 4 bad games in a row. This has been the trend not only from Mihm, but also from Smush, Lamar, Cook. They have to be more consistant in order for Kobe to build some kind trust. Now to your point that he always tries to be the hero at the end of games, if I could remember last game against New Jersey, didn't Kobe drive to the basket and when the double team came passed the ball to a wide open Odom to win the game?? What did Lamar do??


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## Wilmatic2 (Oct 30, 2005)

I think its a combination of things that aren't going well right now. No one on the Lakers contributes consistent offensive play besides Kobe or no one understands the triangle offense and how they can become effective within it besides Kobe. Kobe has to take a lot of shots because no one else can make a jump shot. Kobe does take some ill-advised shots, but he's just being the competitor that he is. At least he isn't afraid to lose or win games for the Lakers. Also, I'd like to say the Lakers should try starting Sasha instead of Smush and see how it works out.


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

Sir Patchwork said:


> Kobe is losing trust in these guys. In what everyone considers a good game from the rest of the Laker players, they shot 39% from the field (24-61), so even though he is trying to do way too much, it's not like he is out there with good players. And I agree with the point that guys are deferring to him too much.
> 
> A lot needs to be patched up, and it goes from top to bottom, starting with Kobe all the way down to the 15th man to Phil to his staff. A couple of really pathetic performances in a row.


Cook was the one that brought that percentage down. All his 7 misses were in the first half and Phil yanked him after the foul trouble. Besides that the supporting cast shot 44.4%, very respectable, and got a TON of 2nd opportunties off offensive rebounds and forced TO's. 

But yeah, I get what you're saying. 



> On a positive note, Kobe's defense has look superb thus far. Silver fining for ya.


Yeah, I agree, even today it was good and he wasn't even trying to lock down anyone, he was just roaming really well (as he always seems to against the Spurs).


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## Pinball (Aug 3, 2002)

I hate to say this but if he's out of energy because he plays so hard on the defensive end, maybe he should expend a little less energy on defense and drive more on offense. He's playing like a tired player on offense, jacking up jumpers from all over the court. Even Jordan took it easy for 3 quarters before really turning up the heat on defense in the fourth.


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## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

Pinball said:


> I hate to say this but if he's out of energy because he plays so hard on the defensive end, maybe he should expend a little less energy on defense and drive more on offense. He's playing like a tired player on offense, jacking up jumpers from all over the court. Even Jordan took it easy for 3 quarters before really turning up the heat on defense in the fourth.



So far the best games he's had this season is where he cruises in the first half on the offensive end. Making taking 10 attempts or so, and those attempts were ususally late in each quarter so he'd often go to the line. He'd let Smush and Odom do the majority of the work and just keep the team close to striking distance. Then in the second half is when he would take over and demand the ball more. I think this worked well mainly because he wasn't completely and totally exhausted by the time the fourth quarter started and his jumpshots still had arch. Now granted, it hasn't been that way in the last few games for either side. Smush and Odom havent stepped up the majority of the games enough to give kobe a rest, but in reality team players no matter who they are are not going to get better when you consisstantly shoot in all quarters and go 9 of 33. Even if Smush or Odom or even the bigs are playing badly, feed them the ball. Make them work through it, at the very least they get offensive spacing practice and go away with experiance.

Smush has sucked lately, im not even going to defend him. But in the first four games Smush shared the ball handling with Odom a lot. Those times Smush brought the ball up were normally the times when he went to the hole and got fouled and what not. He touches the ball less now, and often times Kobe no longer waits at the WING like he did early on this season, but he goes out to the base line front and smush hangs at the wing. They completely changed there positioning and now that allows more than one person to easily double team Kobe. Who to blame for that? Phil or Kobe? I dont know. But that doesnt excuse Kobes retarded play making skills lately. Kobe is a wing player. He is a wing Slasher, he needs to go back to the wing every night. Peroid.


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## SoCalfan21 (Jul 19, 2004)

i really really really think that the lakers need to look for some kind of a trade to get rid of mihm because i belive that bynum will be starting in a year or 2


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## Bartholomew Hunt (Mar 4, 2003)

Mihm would be a decent backup.


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## ceejaynj (Oct 9, 2005)

It's simple...our opponents know we don't have a consistant and dependable second scoring threat. As a result, they double and triple team Kobe and take their chances with the rest. Right now, that is a good strategy!


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## West44 (Jun 29, 2005)

thug_immortal8 said:


> I have to admit us Lakers fans are some of the worst fans in the league, were not consistent, one day we love a guy and will defend him to death, the next day we treat him like garbage.


good job thug! the lakers will go exactly as far as Kobe carries us. certainly not fair to say he's the reason the lakers lose. the man works his butt off in the off season to improve himself and plays with hustle, guts, and very rare skills.

btw - what made you think i had a fav rapper? i liked the why ain't there no black banana sig better.


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## clien (Jun 2, 2005)

i think kobe should just role w/ the offense and like not look to score at all in the first half...just set up the bigs n try to get em goin... than in the second half just go balls to the walls, all out kobe show....instead of just looking to score every time he touches the ball...which is every time down the court


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## Unique (Apr 13, 2005)

Kobe likes to score but he needs to understand that there's no way in hell you'll ever win a champioship if you dont play team ball for example AI he will never win a championship in Philly unless a miracle happens, Kobe needs to take GOOD shots and just force them like he does so often now a days . Kobe needs to get to the line alot more instead of forcing bad shots and missing up he can go to the hoop get fould and make up those points there. Lamar needs to step up its like hes scared to be what he can be , he is tottaly capable of being an all star , honestly if lamar dosent cut it this year i want him out. Kwame needs to calm down and let the game come to him forget the media forget people telling you your a bust no1 is asking for 30 a game all people are asking if maybe 12 and 8? Chris is doing good just about the only one so i wont get on his case because hes had enough of me last season. Bottom line is this team needs to become a team , some need to step up mentally some need to step down mentally.


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## HawaiianLaker (Nov 28, 2005)

HuntDizzle said:


> If you do actually watch the games, then you should know that what you are blaming on Kobe is not his fault. Everyone else on the Lakers defers to him, they watch him when he has the ball...look for him when they have the ball....then they pass it to Kobe with 5 seconds left on the shot clock. What is he supposed to do? Not shoot it? Make another pass? Nope, he gets stuck chucking it up. And when he does chuck it, the other team is usually doubling him b/c they knew the ball would go to him, and they know that he HAS TO SHOOT. The amount of shots that he is forced to take to beat the clock drastically affects his field goal % negatively. That's what happens when you don't have a legitimate 2nd scoring option that the other team has to think might beat them, they can just double the guy they know will take the shot. It's also not about Kobe not being able to play within the offense, it's about being stuck with 4 other guys on the cout who don't even understand the offense, and therefore cannot execute it. Do you think the Triangle is designed to have the best player take deep jumpers to beat the shot clock every possession? Not quite. Before you are too quick to blame it all on Kobe, make sure you actually analyze the whole situation.
> 
> The only correct thing you said is in regards to Bynum's play tonight. The kid is going to be a MONSTER!
> 
> Out.


Tottaly agree wit u man and plus He brings them back from the deficets that they are at and there are many examples to show that


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## The One (Jul 10, 2005)

Now was this thread supposed to be about the Lakers' problem or the problem with kobe.....or our you guys implying that the problem with the Lakers is Kobe.....


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## KDOS (Nov 29, 2005)

Kwame at 12 and 8 is still a bust though


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

The One said:


> Now was this thread supposed to be about the Lakers' problem or the problem with kobe.....or our you guys implying that the problem with the Lakers is Kobe.....


Kobe for Jalen Rose. Let's do it while we can!


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

ceejaynj said:


> It's simple...our opponents know we don't have a consistant and dependable second scoring threat. As a result, they double and triple team Kobe and take their chances with the rest. Right now, that is a good strategy!


That's about it, really.

I'm starting to lose all faith in Lamar Odom. He is 6-10 and shooting .410%. That's horrible. And he isn't even a decent FT shooter, either. Why the heck is he atempting 3+ threes a game?

Then, the lakers froncourt. Between Mihm, Kwame and Cook they should be putting up 30ppg in close oportunity baskets. 

Besides Kobe, it's terribly apparent the Lakers have no other player who can consistently deliver in the offensive end. Sure, Odom can ocasionaly go for 25. So can Smush. But, sadly, that doesn't happen very often.

Kobe is a smart guy, and i bet that, if he could, he would pass the ball to another hot hand. i don't think he makes any point or takes any pride in putting up 30 shots a game. He is all about winning. But will he pass the ball to?

Like in the beggining of the season, i still say Kwame is the only guy who could turn into a solid second option. But...


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## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

The One said:


> Now was this thread supposed to be about the Lakers' problem or the problem with kobe.....or our you guys implying that the problem with the Lakers is Kobe.....



So isn't Kobe a Laker? If he is causing problems with the Lakers, isn't it a Lakers problem? I think most of us are not trying to say Kobe is the only problem, but lately he has been a big problem. I'm sorry but if you shoot more 30 a night and dont even get in the mid 40's in percentage your going to hurt the team. 

However, you spend more time getting your team setup into proper spacing and work on the "TEAMS" shot selection, than everyone starts to get better. Im not suggesting that if Kobe finds the open man they will make it every single time or even half the time. I'm saying that unless they practice they definatly will NEVER make anything or play the proper way. Its all about pratice and right now the team is practicing watching Kobe shoot the ball more than all the starters combined each night. Even if a player other than Bryant is doing well, shooting hot, playing right, they still dont get the ball to keep the trend going. By the time they get to shoot again they are already cold from watching Kobe shoot while being double teamed for 5 possessions in a row.,

Kobe cant win by himself, and the team will never win with Kobe, if neither of the two forces can learn together.


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## Julo (Nov 23, 2002)

KOBEDUNKEDONSHAQ said:


> Kwame at 12 and 8 is still a bust though


12 and 8 would be a career year for him


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## LoyalBull (Jun 12, 2002)

_It's simple...our opponents know we don't have a consistant and dependable second scoring threat. As a result, they double and triple team Kobe and take their chances with the rest. Right now, that is a good strategy!_

That is apologist thinking.

If you expect to make an argument that Kobe is doubled and tripled so he has to carry the scoring load... then doesn't that actually avoid the harsh reality that regardless of "why" he is shooting so much and so poorly... that if its becuase he is always doubled and tripled he shouldn't be on a pace to shoot more shots than anyone since Wilt in 63?

Jordan who (at times) didn't even have a Lamar to turn too never was on that kind of pace.

Not Iverson.

No one since Wilt.

The issue? Jordan shot in the 50%s. WIlt the high 50's. Kobe? The low 40's.

Again. If the apology is "Kobe is shooting poorly becuase no one else can score so he is doubled and tripled"... then the fact that the ball isn't leaving him when that happens is a major problem. Evidenced by the sheer volume of shot attempts.


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## Unique (Apr 13, 2005)

LoyalBull said:


> _It's simple...our opponents know we don't have a consistant and dependable second scoring threat. As a result, they double and triple team Kobe and take their chances with the rest. Right now, that is a good strategy!_
> 
> That is apologist thinking.
> 
> ...



The athleticism can not even be compared to this generations, People are jumping higher ....Defense is more of an asset then it was back then so that is why wilt avgd 50 points per . But i do agree that Kobe is forcing 10-13 of his shots and that number needs to go waaaaaaaaaaay down.


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## LoyalBull (Jun 12, 2002)

_The athleticism can not even be compared to this generations, People are jumping higher ....Defense is more of an asset then it was back then so that is why wilt avgd 50 points per . But i do agree that Kobe is forcing 10-13 of his shots and that number needs to go waaaaaaaaaaay down._

Im not sure I see the point of this.

Wilt was "bigger, stronger etc."

So is Shaq.

So is Dwight Howard.

What seperates great from good is the ability to seperate oneself from one's peers.

And then the question becomes... if the game has changed... and players have become "that much better"... then why is one player taking such a high volume of shots since the "athletes" today are "better".

Seems to make sense to feed wilt the ball that many times. But by your logic... there should be little reason for Kobe to do so.


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## Unique (Apr 13, 2005)

LoyalBull said:


> _The athleticism can not even be compared to this generations, People are jumping higher ....Defense is more of an asset then it was back then so that is why wilt avgd 50 points per . But i do agree that Kobe is forcing 10-13 of his shots and that number needs to go waaaaaaaaaaay down._
> 
> Im not sure I see the point of this.
> 
> ...


No, My point was that back then (Wilts time) "role players) were not as atheletic as these current players . 


> then why is one player taking such a high volume of shots since the "athletes" today are "better".


Like i said i also belive Kobe is jacking up shots, If u would of read my post or at least understood it you would realize i was agreeing with you, But your ..like EHL would say "Boner" for the lakers is non stop . LOL did u just say Dwight Howard is considerd to be one of the greats? Funny stuff.


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

LoyalBull said:


> _It's simple...our opponents know we don't have a consistant and dependable second scoring threat. As a result, they double and triple team Kobe and take their chances with the rest. Right now, that is a good strategy!_
> 
> That is apologist thinking.


No, it's not. 

Lakers' opponents can afford to concentrate the defensive strategy on making it hard for Kobe to score and gamble on the others.
Kobe doesn't have the luxury of passing the ball hoping that his teammate will make the shot. for more often than not, they don't. So he just keeps on jackin' them up. Amd i'm sure he believes he can make every one of his shots. 
The biggest unanswered question is still: "who should Kobe give the ball to in the 4th quarter?"

Previous Laker teams had good role players who knew that, if they got open, they would get the ball. And they were good enough to make the shots. That's one of the reasons Kobe was/is one of the best passing SGs, stat-wise, in the last 5 years or so.

This team doesn't have Rick Fox, Horry, Fisher (who made a living knocking down jumpers), Harper and others. Heck, they don't even have a guy like Chucky Atkins. 
Or a player who can create his own shot if needed, like Caron Butler.

Odom works well in the post, but in late-game situations, he will be doubled in the key. Who not named Kobe Bryant will be there to be trusted with the outlet pass/assist? 



> If you expect to make an argument that Kobe is doubled and tripled so he has to carry the scoring load... then doesn't that actually avoid the harsh reality that regardless of "why" he is shooting so much and so poorly... that if its becuase he is always doubled and tripled he shouldn't be on a pace to shoot more shots than anyone since Wilt in 63?


Kobe's ego is something that still amazes me to this day. He could very well pass the ball up and force his teammates to shoot in the 4th quarter. And then point fingers, or ask for more help (since the Lakers roster, as explained above, only have a decent mid-to-long distance shooter -Brian Cook!!!!!) He doesn't. So he takes all the blame. It's like he wants to take all the credit OR all the blame.



> Jordan who (at times) didn't even have a Lamar to turn too never was on that kind of pace.


Jordan was (and smartly so) surrounded by good-to-great shooters who would mak'em. Hodges. Paxson. Kerr. Harper. Heck, even Horace Grant, bill cartwright, Perdue and the canadian fellow (Wennington?) would make the open jumper...



> Not Iverson.
> 
> No one since Wilt.
> 
> The issue? Jordan shot in the 50%s. WIlt the high 50's. Kobe? The low 40's.


If talking about FG%, please don't bring Iverson into the equation.
About Jordan's +.500FG%, it's not comparable. In those days, a perimeter player shooting UNDER .500FG% would be considered simply as a bad shooter. It's not the same, nowadays.



> Again. If the apology is "Kobe is shooting poorly becuase no one else can score so he is doubled and tripled"... then the fact that the ball isn't leaving him when that happens is a major problem. Evidenced by the sheer volume of shot attempts.


Yes, it's a problem. the problem is Kobe NOT making those shots, not ATTEMPTING them. Heck, if i were Mitch, i would try to convince Reggie Miller and Dell curry (even if he's 50 years old) to join the Lakers so Kobe could pass to a guy whose wrist doesn't tremble in the 4th...


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## Julo (Nov 23, 2002)

PauloCatarino said:


> About Jordan's +.500FG%, it's not comparable. In those days, a perimeter player shooting UNDER .500FG% would be considered simply as a bad shooter. It's not the same, nowadays.


Glen Rice, one of the great perimeter players, never averaged over 50%; neither did Steve Smith. I don't think anybody here would consider those players "bad shooters."

One strength that seperates Jordan from everyone else was that despite his high scoring averages, he still shot at very high percentages. Throughout NBA history there has always been big men who had high scoring averages and high shot percentages, but for a _guard_ to average 30+ ppg and still shoot over 50% is amazing


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

Julo said:


> Glen Rice, one of the great perimeter players, never averaged over 50%; neither did Steve Smith. I don't think anybody here would consider those players "bad shooters."


When yuo attempt 400-to-500 three pointers in a season, it's bound to bring your shooting averages down, wouldn't you think?



> One strength that seperates Jordan from everyone else was that despite his high scoring averages, he still shot at very high percentages. Throughout NBA history there has always been big men who had high scoring averages and high shot percentages, but for a _guard_ to average 30+ ppg and still shoot over 50% is amazing


Adrian Dantley (6'5): 4 straight seasons of 30+ppg on .550+FG%;
George Gervin (6'7)
English (6'7)
Kiki, Bernard King, Clyde Drexler, Dale Ellis...

All guys who were volume shooters, non-post players, and averaged from 27-to-31ppg in +.500FG%. And, if i'm correct, are/were 6'7 or under.


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## mattematikz (Nov 30, 2005)

CDRacingZX6R said:


> However, you spend more time getting your team setup into proper spacing and work on the "TEAMS" shot selection, than everyone starts to get better. Im not suggesting that if Kobe finds the open man they will make it every single time or even half the time. I'm saying that unless they practice they definatly will NEVER make anything or play the proper way. Its all about pratice and right now the team is practicing watching Kobe shoot the ball more than all the starters combined each night. Even if a player other than Bryant is doing well, shooting hot, playing right, they still dont get the ball to keep the trend going. By the time they get to shoot again they are already cold from watching Kobe shoot while being double teamed for 5 possessions in a row.,
> 
> Kobe cant win by himself, and the team will never win with Kobe, if neither of the two forces can learn together.


nice insight. thats exactly what i was thinking when i started this thread. like charles barkley roughly said last night.. a man who has to pump fake 2 or 3 times to try to get the defender off him and shoots it, isn't taking a good shot. i mean, if he actually made at least 70% of those forced shots, i wouldnt mind. but like CDracing implied, we should be practicing the triangle throughout the whole game even if other players other than kobe miss or make some open/contested jumpers. i dont think the 'kobe bryant show' will help his teamates at all.


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## Julo (Nov 23, 2002)

PauloCatarino said:


> When yuo attempt 400-to-500 three pointers in a season, it's bound to bring your shooting averages down, wouldn't you think?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Are you saying that all those players were part of the norm back then? The players you have listed are still considered rare talents... 


PauloCatarino said:


> In those days, a perimeter player shooting UNDER .500FG% would be considered simply as a bad shooter. It's not the same, nowadays.


My response was to this. in Jordan's time, there still existed many good perimeter players who shot under 50% and were considered "bad shooters" by any means. 

The get back on topic, Kobe is shooting 41.9% right now; certainly not a great FG% (whether in the 80s, 90s, or 2000s) and I'm sure we all agree that he can improve on this


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