# LeBron James #23



## Seuss (Aug 19, 2005)

I was thinking about this a while ago. And I didn't like the fact that LeBron and Jason-Rich picked the #23. 

To me that number will always be Jordans. I know a number is a number, but Jordan wasn't your average great player, he should have that number retired from the NBA. 


Anyone else think LeBron and J-Rich should of picked different numbers?


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## IbizaXL (Sep 21, 2005)

the #23 on a bulls jersey is what counts for me. theres probably more players wearing that number in the NBA. but maybe they aint that good to be recognized. Usually a player uses its own number from when he was playing ball in High School or College. Maybe the #23 carries a special meaning to LBJ and J-Rich.....who knows. but i dont see a big deal out of it.


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## ChrisWoj (May 17, 2005)

I believe they both wore the number through HS because, well, when you're in HS you want to be the guy with 23, with Jordan's number. I remember with our HS it always seemed like the big men wanted number 32 (Young Shaq) or by my Sr year 34 (Shaq Diesel). And eventually the number just grew on them and they kept it as their own. It isn't disrespect. And it shouldn't be retired throughout the league.


-Chris.


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## SeaNet (Nov 18, 2004)

You're just going to have to learn to live w/ it.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

You'll be suprised how quickly you forget Jordan23 and start associating it with Lebron. I see a 23 on a jersey anymore, my first thought is LJ23. Jordan is now assocaited with his logo. Nike has made a big push to get you to associate 23 with Lebron now, with no real connection to Jordan.

I personally love the move. It's like tatooing Chosen One on your back. It's just pressure he puts on himself to push himself to succeed. He knows everyone is waiting for him to fail, so he wants to put as much of it on himself as possible. What better way to top Jordan than to take his number and make it your own. Obviously Lebron feels he is up to the challenge. There's a certain iconoclasm to it, that I love.


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## TonyMontana_83 (Dec 4, 2004)

^^^So does Lebron's legacy hurt Jordan's then? I mean, Jordan and the number 23 has been, or at least used to be, a big deal. Now if everyone associates Lebron with the number it may make Jordan seem less important.


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## Carbo04 (Apr 15, 2005)

futuristxen said:


> You'll be suprised how quickly you forget Jordan23 and start associating it with Lebron. I see a 23 on a jersey anymore, my first thought is LJ23. Jordan is now assocaited with his logo. Nike has made a big push to get you to associate 23 with Lebron now, with no real connection to Jordan.
> 
> I personally love the move. It's like tatooing Chosen One on your back. It's just pressure he puts on himself to push himself to succeed. He knows everyone is waiting for him to fail, so he wants to put as much of it on himself as possible. What better way to top Jordan than to take his number and make it your own. Obviously Lebron feels he is up to the challenge. There's a certain iconoclasm to it, that I love.



Wow, I think you need to take a break off the hype train for a bit. No doubt if he has no major injury he will be a great, great player. But to say people think of 23 as LeBron now, and saying he'll already pass Jordan is way over doing it. I'm sure unless you're in Cleveland, or a Cavs fan nobody thinks of 23 as LeBron first before Jordan at this point.


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## RP McMurphy (Jul 17, 2003)

SeaNet said:


> You're just going to have to learn to live w/ it.


I was expecting you to make your religion joke, because it's appropriate here. The number 23 "belongs" to Michael Jordan? Should we pray to Jordan five times a day too?


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## socco (Jul 14, 2002)

SunsFan57 said:


> Anyone else think LeBron and J-Rich should of picked different numbers?


Sure, as long as Trenton Hassell gets to keep #23...


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## Seuss (Aug 19, 2005)

RP McMurphy said:


> I was expecting you to make your religion joke, because it's appropriate here. The number 23 "belongs" to Michael Jordan? Should we pray to Jordan five times a day too?



I don't know, I guess you could. But its not really my business what you do during your free time. 


But anyways, I thought LeBron should of picked a different number to have his own legacy. 


Because now Lb will always, in a way, be thought of Jordan when you think Lb or the opposite. But I guess thats not bad.........


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## HallOfFamer (May 26, 2003)

Yes, JRich and Lebron should give up #23. Noone should ever be able to wear that number again. I also think no team should be allowed to wear red uniforms anymore. Also, whats with all these bald heads in the NBA? Dont they realize that's Jordans trademark? All players should be forced to grow their hair.


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## Seuss (Aug 19, 2005)

HallOfFamer said:


> Yes, JRich and Lebron should give up #23. Noone should ever be able to wear that number again. I also think no team should be allowed to wear red uniforms anymore. Also, whats with all these bald heads in the NBA? Dont they realize that's Jordans trademark? All players should be forced to grow their hair.



That was very funny. Also, very original and well thought up. I would hope you don't spend to much time on a simple post just to entertain yourself.


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## 4BiddenKnight (Jun 23, 2005)

During one of the interviews Lebron did, he wore 23 because MJ was his idol. I believe he wanted to honor him.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

I thought it was common knowledge that Lebron adn J-Rich wear 23 in tribute to Michael Jordan.


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## ralaw (Feb 24, 2005)

23AirJordan said:


> I thought it was common knowledge that Lebron and J-Rich wear 23 in tribute to Michael Jordan.


I think your right, but I don't think Jordan needs much of a tribute! Jordan is still bigger than the NBA even after retiring a 3-4 years ago! I could understand the tribute maybe in 10-15 years, but the majority of people who watch the NBA today saw Jordan play and won't forget his impact! Now my children will associate 23 with LeBron James, so making a tribute to Jordan would make more sense.


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## Mavericks_Fan (Apr 19, 2005)

SunsFan57 said:


> he should have that number retired from the NBA.


No.


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

HallOfFamer said:


> Yes, JRich and Lebron should give up #23. Noone should ever be able to wear that number again. I also think no team should be allowed to wear red uniforms anymore. Also, whats with all these bald heads in the NBA? Dont they realize that's Jordans trademark? All players should be forced to grow their hair.


 :clap:


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## IV (Jul 16, 2002)

SunsFan57 said:


> I was thinking about this a while ago. And I didn't like the fact that LeBron and Jason-Rich picked the #23.
> 
> To me that number will always be Jordans. I know a number is a number, but Jordan wasn't your average great player, he should have that number retired from the NBA.
> 
> ...


Everyone identifies the number 23 with MJ, and he is the greatest, but Lebron if anybody could be the one players to make a claim at that number.


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## Pnack (Aug 23, 2005)

gretzky's #99 was retired from the whole NBA...i think the NBA should do it just to honor michael


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## carrrnuttt (Dec 4, 2004)

KobeBryant08 said:


> gretzky's #99 was retired from the whole NBA...


Yeah. It was crazy how he was dunking on people with skates on...


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## jminges (Aug 25, 2005)

I like how Artest went through the entire Bulls dynasty in Indy. I read he's changing his number this year.


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## DuMa (Dec 25, 2004)

carrrnuttt said:


> Yeah. It was crazy how he was dunking on people with skates on...


:rotf:


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Gretzky was more important to hockey than Jordan was to basketball. And yeah, like someone said, your kids aren't going to associate 23 with Jordan. Lebron by taking the number will inevitably, wipe clean the association at the rate he is going.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

No athlete should have his number retired from the entire league unless he transcended the sport, like Jackie Robinson. Gretzky, Jordan...they didn't transcend their sport, they simply played it incredibly well.

I think it's perfectly fine for players like James and Richardson to take #23. People have used the numbers of Wilt Chamberlain, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Magic Johnson, Oscar Robertson...plenty of other legends as great or nearly as great as Jordan. The league hasn't suffered at all.


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## GTA Addict (Jun 27, 2005)

futuristxen said:


> You'll be suprised how quickly you forget Jordan23 and start associating it with Lebron. I see a 23 on a jersey anymore, my first thought is LJ23.


LOL!


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## KingoftheCourt23 (Jul 20, 2005)

I think it would be neat if they had their own numbers, but they definetly picked the number because of MJ. Plus the number has a large apeal amoung fans (mostly because of Jordan). I guess since neither the Cavs nor the Warriors have retired that number they have all the right to wear it. I think it would be neat to see higher numbers like 70s, 80s, and 90s. Then they could have original numbers and people could recognize them just by number.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

I want someone to blow up 73. 73 is an awesome number.

Paging Ron Artest.


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

SunsFan57 said:


> I was thinking about this a while ago. And I didn't like the fact that LeBron and Jason-Rich picked the #23.
> 
> To me that number will always be Jordans. I know a number is a number, but Jordan wasn't your average great player, he should have that number retired from the NBA.
> 
> ...


It's a number. Just like any other number.

If the Bulls No. 23 is retired, that's their business. Jordan didn't conquer any social barriers or do anything for anybody but Michael Jordan. Speaking strictly of his on-court performance, he was just a great player who won titles, just like Russell was a great player who won titles. Just like Duncan is a great player who wins titles. Just like anyone else who led their teams to championships.

You can't retire a number league-wide for just that, nor can you retire a number just because it's a big popularity contest or a marketing extravaganza.


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## Mr. Hobbes (Jul 1, 2005)

#23 shouldn't be retired, but players shouldn't wear it out of respect for the number. To me, someone wearing 23 isn't honoring the original, but rather giving the image that "I'm just like him". I don't mind Lebron wearing it, because it's natural for him to do so due to the media calling him the next Jordan. (Although I think he was #32 in high school) I don't like Richardson wearing it, because he's a scorer and a high-flyer, and there are dozens of them in the league. I want to kick Casey Jacobsen and Josh Davis in the balls for touching that number.


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## socco (Jul 14, 2002)

WTChan said:


> #23 shouldn't be retired, but players shouldn't wear it out of respect for the number. To me, someone wearing 23 isn't honoring the original, but rather giving the image that "I'm just like him". I don't mind Lebron wearing it, because it's natural for him to do so due to the media calling him the next Jordan. (Although I think he was #32 in high school) I don't like Richardson wearing it, because he's a scorer and a high-flyer, and there are dozens of them in the league. I want to kick Casey Jacobsen and Josh Davis in the balls for touching that number.


You think every person that wears #23 is wearing it because Jordan did? And you think they're doing it to try to be like him? 23 is a number, just like 5, just like 21, just like 33. It's just a number, you don't have to/shouldn't judge people so harshly because they're wearing a frickin number.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

this is ridiculous. just because some choose to view jordan as a god doesn't mean everyone else has to as well.


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## Mr. Hobbes (Jul 1, 2005)

I don't view Jordan as anything more than what he is- the greatest SG to ever play the game. His number is the most distinctive and the most important number in the history of the game. Why? Because he is the only significant player to ever wear it, before Richardson and Lebron. His number is THE most well known around the world (trust me, I know). In my eyes, when you wear that number, you are trying to raise your status to match his renown. And Davis and Jacobsen think they're that good? I don't need you to believe what I believe, but I have to say what I have to say.


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## DWadeistheTruth (Apr 25, 2005)

If you want to create your own legacy. I think is better to have a unique number. I think this was more of a ploy by Nike, to have LBJ wear that number. Easy transition between the Greatest, to the future(but I don't even think he will nearly be as good as Jordan) Didn't some guy brought up the point that Lebron wore the number 32 in HighSchool. I find it kind of unoriginal, if you supposed to be the future GOAT. To rip off Jordan's number. I never will ever associate Lebron with number 23, that will always belong to Jordan.


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

DWadeistheTruth said:


> If you want to create your own legacy. I think is better to have a unique number. I think this was more of a ploy by Nike, to have LBJ wear that number. Easy transition between the Greatest, to the future(but I don't even think he will nearly be as good as Jordan) Didn't some guy brought up the point that Lebron wore the number 32 in HighSchool. I find it kind of unoriginal, if you supposed to be the future GOAT. To rip off Jordan's number. I never will ever associate Lebron with number 23, that will always belong to Jordan.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

uggh. a players legacy is based on what they do on the court. not what number they have on their back. lebron's legacy will be dictated by what he does, not whether he happens to wear jordan's number. dr. j wore bill russell's number. bird took kareem's. penny and tmac took oscar's. who gives a rats arse. they each have their individuality, they each have their own legacy.


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## DWadeistheTruth (Apr 25, 2005)

Rawse said:


>


I guess you can't believe all facts in here. My bad. But still, be a little bit more original.


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

DWadeistheTruth said:


> I guess you can't believe all facts in here. My bad. But still, be a little bit more original.


It's tough to be original when every conceivable way to say "DWadeistheTruth is always, always wrong," has already been done.


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## DWadeistheTruth (Apr 25, 2005)

Rawse said:


> It's tough to be original when every conceivable way to say "DWadeistheTruth is always, always wrong," has already been done.


That is really original. And I mean it.


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## ghoti (Jan 30, 2005)

Does anyone follow soccer close enough to give a brief history of the number 10?

I'm pretty sure a lot of the greatest players of all time wore that number.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

ghoti said:


> Does anyone follow soccer close enough to give a brief history of the number 10?
> 
> I'm pretty sure a lot of the greatest players of all time wore that number.


10 is generally the jersey given to the playmaker on any given team. So there's a ton of great number 10's. The numbers in soccer are more positional. Like 9 is a striker, so on and so forth. So there's also a lot of great number 9's.

American Football is like that too, no?


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## ChrisWoj (May 17, 2005)

DWadeistheTruth said:


> That is really original. And I mean it.


Holy ****, he's discovered sarcasm!


Also, to be on topic: Who here honestly expects the New York Knicks to ban a player from wearing #23? You'd expect their team to plaster 23 on their 12th man every single season out of complete loathing for his Airness.


-Chris.


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## 4BiddenKnight (Jun 23, 2005)

futuristxen said:


> 10 is generally the jersey given to the playmaker on any given team. So there's a ton of great number 10's. The numbers in soccer are more positional. Like 9 is a striker, so on and so forth. So there's also a lot of great number 9's.
> 
> American Football is like that too, no?


1-13 is for QBs and kickers.


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## ChrisWoj (May 17, 2005)

futuristxen said:


> 10 is generally the jersey given to the playmaker on any given team. So there's a ton of great number 10's. The numbers in soccer are more positional. Like 9 is a striker, so on and so forth. So there's also a lot of great number 9's.
> 
> American Football is like that too, no?


It is, in a way. I believe all QBs get a range of something like 1-19 or so? Running backs are something like 20-39? I'm not sure what it is from there... I know Wideouts used to get 80-89 or something along those lines... but now they've loosened restrictions and I see them with like 11 and 10 all the time... I don't know exactly, but yes, it is vaguely similar to the way footy does it.


-Chris.

EDIT BELOW
http://football.about.com/cs/football101/a/bl_numbersystem.htm


> 1-9 Quarterbacks and Kickers
> 10-19 Quarterbacks, Receivers, and Kickers
> 20-49 Running Backs and Defensive Backs
> 50-59 Centers and Linebackers
> ...


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## Like A Breath (Jun 16, 2003)

kflo said:


> uggh. a players legacy is based on what they do on the court. not what number they have on their back. lebron's legacy will be dictated by what he does, not whether he happens to wear jordan's number. dr. j wore bill russell's number. bird took kareem's. penny and tmac took oscar's. who gives a rats arse. they each have their individuality, they each have their own legacy.


quoted for truth.

Anyone that gets up in arms about this really need something else to hate on because this is ridiculous.


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## IbizaXL (Sep 21, 2005)

ChrisWoj said:


> Holy ****, he's discovered sarcasm!
> 
> -Chris.



:rotf:


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## K-Dub (Jun 26, 2005)

kflo said:


> uggh. a players legacy is based on what they do on the court. not what number they have on their back. lebron's legacy will be dictated by what he does, not whether he happens to wear jordan's number. dr. j wore bill russell's number. bird took kareem's. *penny and tmac took oscar's*. who gives a rats arse. they each have their individuality, they each have their own legacy.


They did..? I could've sworn Big O was #14.


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## DWadeistheTruth (Apr 25, 2005)

ChrisWoj. [B said:


> *Holy***, he's discovered sarcasm![/B[/B]]
> Also, to be on topic: Who here honestly expects the New York Knicks to ban a player from wearing #23? You'd expect their team to plaster 23 on their 12th man every single season out of complete loathing for his Airness.
> 
> 
> -Chris.


Boy getting his panties wet over my responses. Damn I got a cheerleader. Cheer on Wu Tang Boy. :cheers:


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## DWadeistheTruth (Apr 25, 2005)

gio30584 said:


> :rotf:


Are you intelligent. For real kid, stop riding everyone's comments. Make your own. But hey I bet you used to steal, all the answers from the guy next to you in that "especial" class. Opps.


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

futuristxen said:


> 10 is generally the jersey given to the playmaker on any given team. So there's a ton of great number 10's. The numbers in soccer are more positional. Like 9 is a striker, so on and so forth. So there's also a lot of great number 9's.
> QUOTE]
> 
> That's because it wasn't untill recently that soccer players had to sport 1-to-16 numbers in their jerseys.
> ...


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## TonyMontana_83 (Dec 4, 2004)

Ummm, if Lebron wore #32 wouldn't people say he's ripping off Magic Johnson? Maybe he should just wear the number 68 or something. Actually, that would be pretty cool.


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## jminges (Aug 25, 2005)

What's wrong with LeBron wearing No. 23? It means absolutely nothing to the Cavaliers organizaiton.


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## casebeck22 (Jul 20, 2005)

I would not mind the idea that #23 be retired from the NBA. However, I don't see it happening. Jordan will always own that number though.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

To try and compare any other all time NBA great's number to Jordan's 23 just doesn't work. It works if you talk only about on court performance. But a basketball players number goes far beyond that. It's a piece of the Jersey that sells. Jordan is the biggest super star in NBA history by far. Everything from his commericals, Shoes, Jerseys, and etc All the other greats before Jordan didnt share in the same Commerical/Mainstream success and recognition here in the USA. Let alone in the entire world as Jordan did. The number 23 obviously means a lot and had a MUCH BIGGER IMPACT than most of the posters are letting on. There is a reason why Lebron James and J-Rich wear 23 in tribute to Michael Jordan. Jordan was special I remember being in high school(I graduated in 97) everyone on the basketball team wanted number 23 because of Jordan. Has anyone ever seen Jordans gates going in to his house ? If not you should check out some pictures because it has his number 23 going across it.

Anyone remember when the Bulls lost to the Magic in the playoffs ? And when Jordan switched to number 23 from 45, Penny Hardaway was quoted saying there is something special and different when MJ puts 23 on. That number so belongs to MJ on so many different levels. The only people that honestly associate 23 with Lebron James is small children that have a glimmer of an interest in basketball right now. Anyone that knows the lineage of basketball knows what 23 is all about. Lebron has done nothing in his first 2 seasons to even warrant a discussion about being more recognized with the number 23 than Jordan. And I adore Lebron James and feel he has a good chance at being the best in the leage in a few years. So believe me this is no knock on Lebron. I know several basketball history buffs that call Lebron a Jordan jocker for taking up MJs number in tribute to MJ. Kind of like I'm sure a lot of people on this board feel like I am a Jordan jocker. However I just respect Jordan as it's obvious Lebron James and many other basketball players of today do. There respect is quite big considering they want to wear his number in tribute. Plus other NBA stars do other things to tribute Jordan. Anyone ever notice the chalk thing before the game starts that KG does ? I read an interview that KG does that in tribute to Jordan.

I Must say though... if I had Lebrons talent I would of chosen a different number to simply define myself and indviduality more. Also I think number 23 should be retired through out the NBA. It would be a great honor for Jordan.

I don't see why anyone would have a problem with that. I mean I don't see anyone having an issue with Jerry West being the NBA logo. You could say why should everyone have to wear Jerrys West Logo he didnt do anything for my team. Just like you can say why should we retire Jordans number he didnt do anything for my team. Its giving recognition to players that were special and had an enormous impact on their league. And did special things on the court. After all we are talking about the GOAT.


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## The OUTLAW (Jun 13, 2002)

This debate about numbers is just plain silly. I mean I don't hear anyone saying that #6 was one of the best small forwards ever. They say that Dr J was. No matter what number LeBron wears he will be remembered for what he does on the floor.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

The OUTLAW said:


> This debate about numbers is just plain silly. I mean I don't hear anyone saying that #6 was one of the best small forwards ever. They say that Dr J was. No matter what number LeBron wears he will be remembered for what he does on the floor.


If numbers were just silly as you say. NBA basketball players wouldn't pick a number to wear in tribute of another player. Also Dr. J isnt Michael Jordan. How many players today do you see wearing number 6 in tribute to Dr. J? Also Dr. J isn't the greatest of all time like MJ. It's okay if you dont care yourself about numbers. Thast your opinion, but its obvious it means something to some players and fans.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

c'mon. mj's retired. lbj is playing now. he wears 23. he has his own identity, and will have his own legacy. 

there's no reason to retire #23 leaguewide, and there's no reason for anyone not to wear it (well, except in chicago, atlanta, boston, houston and nj). 

it doesn't effect how mj will be remembered, nor does it effect how lbj will be remembered.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

everyone needs to wear a number. players pick numbers for different reasons. there's no right reason or wrong reason.


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## supermati (Mar 28, 2005)

Sight... Who cares about a number..?
Lebron's idol is MJ, HE(and only he) feels like he'll be the next Jordan...(he does in the inside)
It's a mix between tribute and wannabe

Now...what is bad with just a crude number?
a NUMBER
think it twice, a NUMBER...
On court stuff is what really matters, and IMO LBJ will never ever be as nearly as good as Jordan


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

23AirJordan said:


> The only people that honestly associate 23 with Lebron James is small children that have a glimmer of an interest in basketball right now.


Which feeds into futuristxen's point, that future generations who grow up with James and didn't watch much, or any, of Jordan, will associate the number 23 with James.

A player's number only has such impact with those who watched a great deal of that player, at the time. Much of the generation that watched Jordan's career will probably always associate 23 with Jordan. But much of the generation that didn't watch Jordan, and instead watches James' career, will associate 23 with James.

That's how it is for all memorable players and Jordan will be no exception. Even those who come to basketball after Jordan's career but appreciate Jordan's place in history won't have that automatic association between number and player.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

Minstrel said:


> Which feeds into futuristxen's point, that future generations who grow up with James and didn't watch much, or any, of Jordan, will associate the number 23 with James.
> 
> A player's number only has such impact with those who watched a great deal of that player, at the time. Much of the generation that watched Jordan's career will probably always associate 23 with Jordan. But much of the generation that didn't watch Jordan, and instead watches James' career, will associate 23 with James.
> 
> That's how it is for all memorable players and Jordan will be no exception. Even those who come to basketball after Jordan's career but appreciate Jordan's place in history won't have that automatic association between number and player.


Exactly Minstrel I understand the point and change happens in life. My only point is that MJ has had the biggest impact on the league and it would be an honor for Michael Jordan to have his number 23 retired. And in my original post it's really a moot point considering many players already wear 23 now. It's not like David Stern is going to retire Jordans number at this point. I'm sure for MJ, it's probably just as much of an honor to have todays players wear 23 In Tribute To Him.

But I just disagree when people say that Lebron Owns 23 and that the general public will associate 23 with Lebron over Jordan. That will take a lot more than just amazing basketball court performances from Lebron. It will take a world wide effort in the commerical world as well. Thats my point people seem to not realize is that Jordan is not just the biggest basketball star ever. A lot of people rank him in the top 3 of all sports figures of all time. Today on Jordans shoes remakes the Number 23 is still put on them. Also when young basketball fans do their research and find out why Lebron wears 23 it will be tied to Jordan as Lebron himself said he wears 23 because Michael Jordan wore 23. Thats the only reason Lebron wears 23.


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## Mr. Hobbes (Jul 1, 2005)

I'd wanna retire 23 because it is so unique. Go and ask 10 people who they associate #23 with, and they'll all say Jordan. Go ask 10 people who they associate #6 with, and you'll get a bunch of different answers.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

WTChan said:


> I'd wanna retire 23 because it is so unique. Go and ask 10 people who they associate #23 with, and they'll all say Jordan.


Ask in 20 years and see. Most people will probably say LeBron James, if he fulfills his superstar career.

Jordan is still fresh in people's minds. In 20 years, James will be.

The unique thing about Jordan (as compared to other true basketball greats, like Chamberlain, Robertson, Abdul-Jabbar, etc), was the incredible marketing blitz. James will get as much or more over the next decade or two.


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## mjm1 (Aug 22, 2005)

Minstrel said:


> Ask in 20 years and see. Most people will probably say LeBron James, if he fulfills his superstar career.
> 
> Jordan is still fresh in people's minds. In 20 years, James will be.
> 
> The unique thing about Jordan (as compared to other true basketball greats, like Chamberlain, Robertson, Abdul-Jabbar, etc), was the incredible marketing blitz. James will get as much or more over the next decade or two.


there should be a league wide retirement of #23 like they did in the NHL for Gretzky.


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## tone wone (Jan 30, 2003)

Jordan showdow is still over the league...retiring his number is only gonna make that worse

what happens everytime a athletic swingman scores 30 in a playoff game....he gets compared to Jordan. Jordan was the gift & curse of the NBA.

Late 90s basketball was some garbage.....but people tunned in cause of Jordan. He masked the problems the league had with a water'd down talent pool due over expansion. When he retired it hit people in the face....the league isn't as good as it used to be. when it really hadn't been as good since the early 90s.

The league has finally gotten to a point (or close to it) where all their fans aren't pentalizing players for NOT being Jordan.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

tone wone said:


> Jordan showdow is still over the league...retiring his number is only gonna make that worse
> 
> what happens everytime a athletic swingman scores 30 in a playoff game....he gets compared to Jordan. Jordan was the gift & curse of the NBA.
> 
> ...



The league wasn't watered down and the 90s only added 2 teams. You should study expansion in the NBA and you will see the 90s pales in comparison to the 60s.70s.80s. in expansion. Every sport grows it continues to in the 00s.

Also I would add that 23 is associated with Michael Jordan already in trivia questions. A big basketball trivia question is what number besides 23 did Michael Jordan wear. I remember Stuart Scott asking one of the contestants on the ESPN show Dream Job that. For the simple reason everyone associates 23 with MJ.


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## LamarButler (Apr 16, 2005)

If they both wear his number to show their respect then its cool. If I were MJ I'd like it. 

But personally I'd wear a number that no one great has worn so I could create my own legacy and not follow in someone elses footsteps.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

Minstrel said:


> Ask in 20 years and see. Most people will probably say LeBron James, if he fulfills his superstar career.
> 
> Jordan is still fresh in people's minds. In 20 years, James will be.
> 
> The unique thing about Jordan (as compared to other true basketball greats, like Chamberlain, Robertson, Abdul-Jabbar, etc), was the incredible marketing blitz. James will get as much or more over the next decade or two.


Well your connecting the dots before Lebron has even done anything that puts him ahead of his own peers let alone surpass Jordan. So I think at the very least anyone that says Lebron will be more associated with 23 than Jordan is a bit premature. I could say Lebron James will have a career ending injury next year. Anything can happen is my point, but if you go by right now I don't see anyway Lebron has surpassed Jordan on the court or in the Mainstream/media/Commercials etc Jordan was already very popular with the general public long before he won any championships. I think Jordans career early on was helped a lot by Spike Lee and the Air Jordan Shoe commericals. Also all 3 All Star Dunk competitions Jordan was in early on. And the fact he helped the Bulls in to the playoffs from his rookie season on. MJ and Lebron have tons of charisma, But you have to admit Jordan has more of it than Lebron or anyone for that matter. Some examples for instance the well known story of Jordan getting cut from his high school team. Where you have Lebron driving his Hummer to high school. I realize this all is some what irrelevent, but my point is Jordan had the greatest story to add to his incredible on court performances.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

LamarButler said:


> If they both wear his number to show their respect then its cool. If I were MJ I'd like it.
> 
> But personally I'd wear a number that no one great has worn so I could create my own legacy and not follow in someone elses footsteps.


I agree with you 100 percent.


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

People act like LBJ had some may on the matter.

In the NBA, he HAD to wear #23.

the same thing as David Becjam wearing #23 in soccer, wich is a number that has ABSOLUTELY NO MEANING in soccer.

"Psst! Hey, kid... We'll give you __________ (insert obscene amount of money here) if you sport our aparell. Only one condition: you must wear #23."

Who the heck would say no to that?

It's not about Jordan. It's about Nike.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

23AirJordan said:


> Well your connecting the dots before Lebron has even done anything that puts him ahead of his own peers let alone surpass Jordan. So I think at the very least anyone that says Lebron will be more associated with 23 than Jordan is a bit premature. I could say Lebron James will have a career ending injury next year.


I said IF he completes his superstar career. If he suffers a career-ending injury or unexpectedly falls off, then that changes things.

One other thing is that James doesn't have to _surpass_ Jordan. If he has a brilliant career, all the people who grew up watching him will associate 23 with him, not Jordan. Historical greatness doesn't create any emotional, automatic associations. Does Wilt Chamberlain's number create automatic associations in the minds of anyone who grew up in the last 20 years? I doubt it.



> but if you go by right now I don't see anyway Lebron has surpassed Jordan on the court or in the Mainstream/media/Commercials etc


I don't think anyone can deny that James has much more marketing buzz around him now than Jordan did _two years into his career_. James was a sensation on Madison Avenue before he played an NBA game...that wasn't even close to true for Jordan.

Obviously, James has miles to go to catch Jordan in on-court success or overall marketing impact, but he has miles of career left and he's further ahead of Jordan at the same times in their careers.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

Minstrel said:


> I said IF he completes his superstar career. If he suffers a career-ending injury or unexpectedly falls off, then that changes things.
> 
> One other thing is that James doesn't have to _surpass_ Jordan. If he has a brilliant career, all the people who grew up watching him will associate 23 with him, not Jordan. Historical greatness doesn't create any emotional, automatic associations. Does Wilt Chamberlain's number create automatic associations in the minds of anyone who grew up in the last 20 years? I doubt it.
> 
> ...


Not much in disagreement here. I really can't comment on your Chamberlian comment as I don't really know enough about his mainstream/commerical side of his career. I'm sure some big Wilt fans on the board can weigh in on that.

However for Lebrons commerical/mainstream impact I would say so far hasn't been very impressive IN comparison to Jordans early stages. Maybe this season will change that. We shall wait and see. Examples Air Jordans in '85 and they're now on their what 20th incarnation I believe ? Thats incredible. And do you really find the Zoom Lebrons to be that incredible or will have the flavor of the Air Jordans and the lasting ability ? I also know China even banned Lebrons 'Chamber of Fear' commercials because they found it offensive and Nike even went and apologized to China for this. So I wouldn't say Lebrons commerical impact is quite yet on the same track as MJ's.

However in saying all this I also agree that Lebron has the opportunity in becoming a transcendant global icon like Michael Jordan, but Lebron has to continue his rapid ascension and of course get in to the playoffs and start making some noise.


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## jminges (Aug 25, 2005)

Is there any indication he won't have a superstar career?

03-04, 20.9 PPG, 5.5 RPG, 5.9 APG (at SG)
04-05, 27.2 PPG, 7.4 RPG, 7.2 APG (at SF)

Is ther any indication he is injury prone or foul prone?

03-04, 79 G, 79 GS, 1.90 PF (at SG)
04-05, 80 G, 80 GS, 1.80 PF (at SF)

He will be one of the greatest players in NBA history at that pace.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

jminges said:


> Is there any indication he won't have a superstar career?
> 
> 03-04, 20.9 PPG, 5.5 RPG, 5.9 APG (at SG)
> 04-05, 27.2 PPG, 7.4 RPG, 7.2 APG (at SF)
> ...


You might have just jinxed him.... :biggrin: No if you read my posts more clearly you will see I only praise Lebron in them and have given him his props. I just made some points in some differences between MJ and Lebron. And why IMO MJ will always be associated with 23. Check it out. But yeah I totally agree with you that Lebron will be an all time great if he fullfils his potential and doesn't go down with an injury such as a Grant Hill or Penny Hardaway.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

PauloCatarino said:


> People act like LBJ had some may on the matter.
> 
> In the NBA, he HAD to wear #23.
> 
> ...


Paulo...I know how much you like talking about MJ, but you can't really believe this ? Lebron was wearing 23 long before he was in the NBA because of Jordan.


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## jminges (Aug 25, 2005)

Hardaway and Hill have tiny frames. James will need to be tackled to have an injury like those two.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

jminges said:


> Penny Hardaway and Grant Hill have tiny frames. LeBron will need to be tackled to have an injury like those two.


When was having a tiny frame a prerequisite to sustaining an injury? There has been plenty of big frame athletes that have sustained an injury. Shaq ring a bell ? Believe me before Hardaway and Hill got hurt nobody would of predicted it to happen. Also I think you are taking what I said out of context. i don't expect Lebron to have a career ending injury. I said that he should fullfil his potential as long as something like that doesn't happen.


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

23AirJordan said:


> Paulo...I know how much you like talking about MJ, but you can't really believe this ? Lebron was wearing 23 long before he was in the NBA because of Jordan.


Pure coincidence, my friend.

The fact that LBJ wore #23 in highschool shows a little tenacity and a little temerity (sp?). But it really doesn't matter.

I'm pretty sure that if he wore #43 or whatever in highschool, he would change it to #23. Again, i wouldn't blame him for doing so.

And your wrong, young grasshopper. I HATE talking about His Hairless... :curse:


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

PauloCatarino said:


> Pure coincidence, my friend.
> 
> The fact that LBJ wore #23 in highschool shows a little tenacity and a little temerity (sp?). But it really doesn't matter.
> 
> ...


Alright Paulo I will let you believe your theory although I don't think it's all that resonable. Seems to me the facts point to Lebron wearing 23 in tribute to Jordan. Since he was wearing the number long before Nike/NBA were in the picture. And the most notable fact to dispute your stance would be Lebron himself saying I wear 23 in tribute to Jordan.

You hate talking about his hairless....I always thought you and I were Jordans number one supporters on this site....my bad Paulo.... :biggrin: :banana: :cheers:


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

23AirJordan said:


> You hate talking about his hairless....*I always thought you and I were Jordans number one supporters on this site....my bad Paulo*.... :biggrin: :banana: :cheers:


What the .... :curse: :curse: :curse: :curse:


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## Mr. Hobbes (Jul 1, 2005)

The key point is IF. IF he fullfills his potential. I'll take my chances with what already happened.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

jordan doesn't need something artificial like a leaguewide retiring of his number. it's unnecessary. 

just let the guys play. noone will wear 23 in chicago. shouldn't that suffice? 

either jordan will endure as the symbol of 23, or someone else will take the torch. it's just a number. 

magic, bird, dr j, kareem, wilt, oscar, russell, all these guys numbers have faded alot more than their personal legacies have.


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## The OUTLAW (Jun 13, 2002)

For some reason you guys think that being the best player at a particular time or even the GOAT is a static title. It changes constantly. Just because Jordan is considered the greatest does not mean that he will be considered that after people who hadn't seen him play are doing the judging. Frankly, before Jordan there were other players that were considered the greatest and none of them have had their numbers retired by the league. I can't even remotely understand why Jordans would be retired if you don't decide to retire all those that preceeded him. Should the league retire, Chamberlain, Bird, Magic, DrJ etc? It just doesn't make any sense to me.


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## The OUTLAW (Jun 13, 2002)

kflo said:


> magic, bird, dr j, kareem, wilt, oscar, russell, all these guys numbers have faded alot more than their personal legacies have.


Thank you, finally a voice or reason.


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## DWadeistheTruth (Apr 25, 2005)

Minstrel said:


> Ask in 20 years and see. *Most people will probably say LeBron James*, if he fulfills his superstar career.
> 
> Jordan is still fresh in people's minds. In 20 years, James will be.
> 
> The unique thing about Jordan (as compared to other true basketball greats, like Chamberlain, Robertson, Abdul-Jabbar, etc), was the incredible marketing blitz. James will get as much or more over the next decade or two.


That will mean that basketball has expanded to a whole new level. And most fans are new. But it could never really belong to Lebron, cause even if Lebron will become so great, I don't see it a billion years. But even if he does, every single time, they will bring Jordan in the conversation, in all the games. No matter what he does. He will simply be able to equal Jordan. Cause Jordan is the measuring stick. He could only become equal. Never over Jordan. Never.


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## jminges (Aug 25, 2005)

Hate to do this...

Michael Jordan
84-85, 28.2 PPG, 6.50 RPG, 5.9 APG, 2.39 SPG, 0.84 BPG, 3.55 TPG, 3.50 FPG (at 21)
85-86, 22.7 PPG, 3.60 RPG, 2.9 APG, 2.06 SPG, 1.17 BPG, 2.50 TPG, 2.60 FPG (at 22)

LeBron James
03-04, 20.9 PPG, 5.50 RPG, 5.9 APG, 1.65 SPG, 0.73 BPG, 3.46 TPG, 1.90 FPG (at 19)
04-05, 27.2 PPG, 7.40 RPG, 7.2 APG, 2.21 SPG, 0.65 BPG, 3.28 TPG, 1.80 FPG (at 20)


LeBron James could very well be the greatest player to ever play the game. Don't hate.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

jminges said:


> Hate to do this...
> 
> Michael Jordan
> 84-85, 28.2 PPG, 6.50 RPG, 5.9 APG, 2.39 SPG, 0.84 BPG, 3.55 TPG, 3.50 FPG (at 23)
> ...


well....you realize that Michael Jordan had a broken foot in his second season right ? and only played like 14 games the entire season ?

By the way I don't think anyone hates Lebron.


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## jminges (Aug 25, 2005)

Yep, you can tell how selfish he was by the number of assists and rebounds per in those 14 games too.


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## DWadeistheTruth (Apr 25, 2005)

jminges said:


> Hate to do this...
> 
> Michael Jordan
> 84-85, 28.2 PPG, 6.50 RPG, 5.9 APG, 2.39 SPG, 0.84 BPG, 3.55 TPG, 3.50 FPG (at 21)
> ...


You people never watch games. The intangibles. Lebron has yet to play a playoff game. Lebron don't have the whole package. And his teams are not as bad as people make them out to seem. Wonder why, cause people like you. Giving Lebron excuses, but always look at his stats, never at the games. But hey Lebron no doubt has shown he is going to be the greatest, cause the man has never played one significant game. You do your thing. Am just here laughing.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

jminges said:


> Yep, you can tell how selfish he was by the number of assists and rebounds per in those 14 games too.


You don't really think Jordans career lows may have had something to do with the fact he missed almost an entire season due to injury ?


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## sabas4mvp (Sep 23, 2002)

What about Darius miles... His bentley has this on the license plate. "Take Over 23" When I saw that I almost started laughing, that is a bold statement.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

sabas4mvp said:


> What about Darius miles... His bentley has this on the license plate. "Take Over 23" When I saw that I almost started laughing, that is a bold statement.


That is funny :biggrin: 

Bring it home to Portland this year Darius I'll be at all the home games!


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