# Knicks vs. Bobcats



## Fordy74 (May 22, 2002)

Im excited!! how bout you?! I may even take a 2 minute break from my NFL sunday to watch some of the game:laugh:


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## The True Essence (May 26, 2003)

jets patriots tomorrow, big game!

im curious to see how we play without Jamal though, i think we might actually play better.........this was the team we were supposed to have after the keith trade, sans penny and shandon and plus ariza. Allans finally gonna show us if he can play some minutes tomorrow. im hoping tim can get more touches since he has been playing great recently.


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## sheefo13 (Jul 13, 2002)

yeah it is hard to say no to watching nfl sundays, but you get ur first glance at the new bobcats. I say take about 10 minutes!!!

By the way fordy74, nice avatar. Nina sky girls are gorgious!


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## Fordy74 (May 22, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>sheefo13</b>!
> 
> 
> By the way fordy74, nice avatar. Nina sky girls are gorgious!


thanks, and they are talented unlike other pretty faced "singers".


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## Tragedy (Dec 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Fordy74</b>!
> 
> 
> thanks, and they are talented unlike other pretty faced "singers".


bwaaaaaaaaa ha ha ha ahahhahahaha

(they aren't singers, cuz they cant sing)

i respect ur opinion man, im just messin witcha... but i do think they are pretty.


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## The True Essence (May 26, 2003)

does marbury ALWAYS get outplayed by brevin knight? Marbury having his worst game of the year

gerald wallace 9 boards in the first half. Brezec hasnt even missed a shot.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

I think i have seen enough..Lenny sukks as a coach and the knicks have no defensive intensity...

And,I am starting to lose my love of sweetney..The knicks have hyped him enough,time to trade him..Dont know if Chicago would do it,but i would trade Sweetney for Chandler in a heartbeat...


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## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

I'm not ready to say I've given up on Sweets but he sure is playing short and pudgy.

Lenny doesn't seems to inspire intensity, but what about the players, aren't they supposed to have something to prove? How about Marbury? Isn't he a bit laconic for a floor leader? Eh, it's an old story for the Knicks, where's the leadership gonna come from?


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## The True Essence (May 26, 2003)

tim thomas of course! 20 points


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

TT is the key to this team..We definitely need this guy to step up..It really appears that the tragedys really affected him..It was not possible that he got that bad this quickly..


Oak,lenny has to go..This team needs an intense defensive minded coach,not the winninest and losing coach ever...

I am not ready to give up on Sweeteney..i am ready to TRADE him....He is not the player he was last year,and if hes not going to start,trade him before his defficencies become apparent.Chandler is a free agent this next year as well as Curry.I doubt they are going to pay both guys..We need a weak side shot blocker..

And yes.where is the intensity??


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## The True Essence (May 26, 2003)

tim cant step up unless Lenny runs the plays for him. he only shoots 9 times a game, compared to van horn shooting 15 times a game this year.

last year tim scored 15.8 on 12 shots with us. he deserves 3 more so we can have that legit second scorer. i think tim is a better option then jamal cause tim at least has a post game.


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## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

Penny I agree on TT, but lets be realistic, he got a lot of touches early in the season and they just had no chance of going in, his shot was so off. He worked himself out of the offense. He needs to work himself back in. He's looking a lot better but it's gonna take a sustained effort to win back the trust.

That said, if we can get back the 18.2/5.6 (in games with over 12 mins played) TT of last year I'd agree that we'd be better off going to him before Jamal.

IF TT and Houston can play well Jamal wont be missed. And hopefully when he comes back he wont be the first option again. I'd prefer a first option by committee and Houston as go-to in the clutch.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

TT is a very strange guy..he is perfectly happy to defer to others and be a member of the supporting cast...

The guy doesnt shhot enough..And we had this argument last year..All the TT haters bashed him,yet the guy has proven to be at least as good a shooter as KVH in the past.What is so annoying is that he KVH gives you 101% and you never know how much TT is going to give you...

Look ath the guy..He is 6'10" ,250 with a great handle and decent stroke...Hes the key to this team..scarrrry thought


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

Man, the Knick play at SG tonight was reprensible. Someone should tell Houston that he's supposed to take 7 more shots than he did, and brick 5 of them. They should also tell him to dish one fewer assist. At least he filled Crawford's shoes with 2 steals and a block. How will we ever get by without Jamal?

Well, at least we know the Knicks are good enough to beat the worst road team in the league (since Baron Davis is back for 1-14 New Orleans). Maybe we'll even split the season series at this rate.


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

> tim cant step up unless Lenny runs the plays for him. he only shoots 9 times a game, compared to van horn shooting 15 times a game this year.


Huh? Tim Thomas is averaging like 7 first quarter shots per game. He is taking more shots per minute than Van Horn, so enough with the not enough touches *****ing. Thomas gets taken out of games because he is useless when the shot isn't going in. He has a 1/2 A/T ratio. He can't create for others, and he can't create for himself. He gets outrebounded by players smaller than he is. He's 6'10 and averaging 3.3 rebounds in 25 minutes. Can we trade this guy for Brian Scalabrine?

Speaking of Scalabrine, his season high is 21 points. Today was Tim Thomas' season high, 20 points. That's right, it took him 27 games to score 20 points in one game.

But oh yeah, he lost a family member. As if no other NBA player ever loses a family member during the season. It's funny, since Thomas was talking so much smack during the off season, acting like a tough guy, challenging "Fugazy" Kenyon Martin to a street fight or some nonsense. Yeah, what a tough guy.

Didn't Paul O'Neill win a World Series the day his dad died? How about Barry Bonds not missing a beat when his father died? Bernie Williams and Mariano Rivera also lost family fairly recently. The players who have heart play through those emotional hardships. Of course you're going to suck when you don't have heart. Jordan dedicated championship #4 to his father. Jordan broke down in tears AFTER winning the championship, not when he was on the court with the ball in his hands. For a player who alleges how tough he is, I find it hard to find sympathy for him when he shows mental weakness. 

How would you feel if Tyson lost and blamed it on someone he knew dying the night before? This is from a guy who threatens to eat children, mind you. Now, how would you feel if Tyson won and dedicated his performance to whoever died?

When someone close to you dies, you typically get a week off from work to pull yourself together. Thomas has had a lot more than a week.


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

> I am not ready to give up on Sweeteney..i am ready to TRADE him....He is not the player he was last year,and if hes not going to start,trade him before his defficencies become apparent.Chandler is a free agent this next year as well as Curry.I doubt they are going to pay both guys..We need a weak side shot blocker..


Tyson Chandler
*Overall 75*
Close 75
*Med 63*
3pt 50
FT 61
Layup 70
*Dunk 85*
Handle 60
Pass 50
PostOff 75
*PostDef 75
Block 80
Steal 70*
RebOff 85
*RebDef 85
Speed 70*
Stam 85
Dur 70
DefAwr 70
OffAwr 65

Mike Sweetney
Overall 73
*Close 84*
Med 61
3pt 50
*FT 76*
Layup 70
Dunk 70
Handle 60
*Pass 55*
PostOff 75
PostDef 70
Block 75
Steal 60
RebOff 85
RebDef 80
Speed 65
Stam 85
*Dur 75*
DefAwr 70
*OffAwr 70*


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## The True Essence (May 26, 2003)

since when is 9 shots in 24 minutes more then 15 in 37? If anything, Tim should be getting at least 33 minutes a game, instead of these *** minutes

and yeah Rashidi, Tim Thomas has Michael Jordan, Brett Favre, and Mariano Rivera will? nope. 

but tims deaths are worse then those guys. Not only did his sister die, who he was close with, Tim had to help take care of the kids she left behind. then someone else in his family died, and during the season i believe his mom was in the hospital and had surgery and his wife also had a sickness. its an ongoing thing, this wasnt one person dying and thats it. it was a chain of events, and whether you like it or not, tim is playing great recently.

http://www.nj.com/sports/ledger/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/1103868652101790.xml

here i found the article on it. Read that, Scrooge


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

> here i found the article on it. Read that, Scrooge


Please, I would much prefer if you called me Vescey.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

Rashidi,people handle adversity in different ways.......judge not,less thy be judged:angel: 

You may not like TT,but he is the best we have right now..And much to your dismay,hes starting to play well


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## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Rashidi</b>!
> When someone close to you dies, you typically get a week off from work to pull yourself together. Thomas has had a lot more than a week.


Just for the record, TT didn't take any time off from work. He came into camp on time and in great shape and has played in every game. People can complain all they want about his effort but from what I can tell he played to his usual career effort, the finesse just wasn't there. From what I've seen he's handled his job performance to the best of his ability and in standup fashion, it just wasn't as effective as usual.

And for every uplifting sports story you share with us there are an equal number of people who fall into deep depression and/or chemical abuse from a loss. 

You might understand as your girlfriend was purportedly raped and killed. Some would find that upsetting, but it seemed not to affect you one bit. I guess some, like yourself, are just "lucky" to be blessed with an ice pick for a heart. Or maybe you were just ready for a change...


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## The True Essence (May 26, 2003)

hey rashidi how does chandler and sweetney have the same off post rating? sweetney is way better offensively in the post then chandler. chandler is more of a defensive player


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

> You might understand as your girlfriend was purportedly raped and killed. Some would find that upsetting, but it seemed not to affect you one bit. I guess some, like yourself, are just "lucky" to be blessed with an ice pick for a heart. Or maybe you were just ready for a change...


LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:


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## The True Essence (May 26, 2003)

that was a great article too, did anybody read it? 

and im gonna make sure when i play rashidi online that tim thomas drops 25


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## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>PennyHardaway</b>!
> that was a great article too, did anybody read it?


Yeah, nice Christmas time story. And wasn't the little cripple boy in "A Christmas Carol" called Tiny Tim? Hmmm



> and im gonna make sure when i play rashidi online that tim thomas drops 25


Better not use Rashidis rankings. He's got it skewed so that KVH and his 7-16 Bucks "rule". What does that tell ya?


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

> hey rashidi how does chandler and sweetney have the same off post rating? sweetney is way better offensively in the post then chandler. chandler is more of a defensive player


I have not seen Chandler play in two years, since the Bulls are rarely on TV and he was injured most of last year. The Knicks haven't played the Bulls yet, and I doubt he played in one of the Knick games last year. I have not heard much of note about his post game, but I would assume it wouldn't be any different than Freeway's, and he has a 75. Camby, the player Chandler most compares to, is also a 75. My policy is to leave things status quo until I find information that warrants a change.



> Better not use Rashidis rankings. He's got it skewed so that KVH and his 7-16 Bucks "rule". What does that tell ya?


Uh, no. Online ratings are default ratings, not my ratings. Keith Van Horn only has board ratings of 68 (offreb) and 76 (defreb). That means it actually makes more sense for me to put Kukoc (70 offreb and 78 defreb) at PF. Meaning I'm also playing with an almighty defensive front line of

C: Joe Smith - 75 PostDef, 75 block, 70 defawr
PF: Toni Kukoc - 70 PostDef, 60 block, 70 defawr
SF: Keith Van Horn - 70 PostDef, 70 block, 65 defawr

And ooh, let's look at the changes I made since I'm so skewed.

Keith Van Horn
Overall 80
Close 89
Med 76 (up from 75)
3pt 82 (up from 77)
FT 86
Layup 75
Dunk 70
Handle 75
Pass 60 (down from 70)
PostOff 80
PostDef 75 (up from 70)
Block 60 (down from 70)
Steal 60 (down from 70)
RebOff 75 (up from 68)
RebDef 80 (up from 76)
Speed 75
Stam 85
Dur 75
DefAwr 65
OffAwr 80

Toni Kukoc
Overall 78 (down from 79)
Close 77 (down from 87)
Med 75 (down from 76)
3pt 74
FT 73
Layup 75
Dunk 65 (down from 70)
Handle 75
Pass 70 (up from 60)
PostOff 80
PostDef 70
Block 60
Steal 65
RebOff 70
RebDef 75 (down from 78)
Speed 70
Stam 85
Dur 70
DefAwr 70
OffAwr 85

And just for good measure, let's bring up that guy I "hate", Tim Thomas.

Tim Thomas
Overall 78 (up from 77)
Close 82 (up from 79)
Med 73 (up from 70)
3pt 77 (up from 74)
FT 77
Layup 75
Dunk 80
Handle 70 (down from 75)
Pass 50
PostOff 75
PostDef 75
Block 65 (down from 70)
Steal 65
RebOff 65
RebDef 75 (up from 70)
Speed 80
Stam 90
Dur 75
DefAwr 70 (down from 75)
OffAwr 75

I hate this guy so much that I saw fit to raise him, while lowering the other two players. Of course, those ratings are based a lot off of last year than this year. Given what he has done this year, it won't be long before Tim looks like this.

Tim Thomas
*Overall 75 (down from 77)
Close 79
Med 71 (up from 70)*
3pt 77 (up from 74)
FT 77
Layup 75
*Dunk 75 (down from 80)*
Handle 70 (down from 75)
Pass 50
PostOff 75
PostDef 75
Block 65 (down from 70)
Steal 65
*RebOff 55 (down from 65)
RebDef 70*
Speed 80
Stam 90
Dur 75
DefAwr 70 (down from 75)
OffAwr 75

The Bucks are 7-16 because they are battling a ton of injuries. Van Horn is day to day, and they have FOUR players on the injured list. TJ Ford could be done for his career. Kukoc has missed most of the year. That means they're playing with a lineup of Maurice Williams, Michael Redd, Desmond Mason, Joe Smith, and Dan Gadzuric, with no bench. That's hardly a playoff rotation. They've had to sign THREE free agents to fill holes on the bench. Marcus Fizer, Eddie House, and Kendall Gill, which is hardly a murderer's row. Combined with Mike James and Zaza Pachulia, that's the Milwuakee bench.

Additionally, the Bucks haven't had the easiest of schedules. They've played Miami three times, which is three more than the Knicks have played. They 6-8 vs the east (6-5 vs non-Miami teams) and 1-8 vs the west. They also faced the Kings, Blazers, and Lakers twice. The Knicks have also faced those three teams zero times this year. They also lost to the Suns (again Knicks have not faced them) and Spurs. The one west game they won was against the Hornets w/Baron.

I am wondering if this is coming out of jealousy, since the Bucks under Terry Porter had a better record than the Knicks last year, while the Knicks with more talent are only .500 under Lenny Wilkins.


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

Overall 76 (down from 77)
Tim Thomas' new rating
Overall 76
Close 82
Med 73
3pt 77
FT 77
Layup 75
Dunk 75
Handle 70
Pass 50
PostOff 75
PostDef 75
Block 65
Steal 65
RebOff 60
RebDef 70
Speed 75
Stam 90
Dur 75
DefAwr 70
OffAwr 75

Finally, he is below Tayshaun Prince (77 overall) where he belongs.


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## The True Essence (May 26, 2003)

lol you hate him. are you watching the magic game? tim had a facial on grant hill. and hes shooting well and grabbing boards.


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## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Rashidi</b>!
> 
> I am wondering if this is coming out of jealousy, since the Bucks under Terry Porter had a better record than the Knicks last year, while the Knicks with more talent are only .500 under Lenny Wilkins.


I'm so embarrassed. I feel so naked and exposed. The truth is out -of all the teams in the NBA, the 7-16 Bucks are who I wish we could most resemble.

Please don't tell anyone else.


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