# Would you trade Jack/Kevin Love for Derrick Rose?



## Ballscientist (Nov 11, 2002)

Trade to the teams which will pick #2. A lot of people love Love.

Starters:
Rose
Roy
Aldridge
Outlaw
Oden

This team could win 45 to 49 games.

http://www.nbadraft.net/


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## Mr. Chuck Taylor (Aug 2, 2004)

While we're at it, why don't we trade Sergio for Beasley!


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## B_&_B (Feb 19, 2004)

and how about Travis, Martell, and Raef for Lebron?


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## Ruff Draft (Nov 21, 2004)

Nope. Kevin Love will be a solid role-player. He has a lot to do to obtain star status. Rose is on another level entirely.


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## GOD (Jun 22, 2003)

Try to come up with trades that have some basis in reality. Rudy + Outlaw + 2008 Pick + 2010 Pick + Cash + Raef (expiring contract) for Rose and some bad contracts. That would be somewhat possible. Anything short of that for Rose is just silly to discuss. Most likely, Aldridge would need to be added to get Rose.


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## HOWIE (Dec 30, 2002)

I'd trade pretty much anyone on the team not named Aldridge, Roy, or Oden for Rose, yes even Outlaw. Rose is going to be a good PG and this team would be very good with him at the point, but then what happens with Rudy and Roy? Wouldn't that suck trying to get playing time for all the talent on this team next season? I'm so looking forward to it.


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## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

I would trade Jack, Love, Sergio, Webster, Outlaw, Raef, Joel, McBob, Wafer, Koponen, Freeland, Jones, Frye, Blake and Nate McMillan for Rose


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## Masbee (Dec 31, 2002)

Ballscientist said:


> Trade to the teams which will pick #2. A lot of people love Love.
> 
> Starters:
> Rose
> ...


The question is who WOULDN'T trade Love and Jack for Rose?


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## Masbee (Dec 31, 2002)

mediocre man said:


> I would trade Jack, Love, Sergio, Webster, Outlaw, Raef, Joel, McBob, Wafer, Koponen, Freeland, Jones, Frye, Blake and Nate McMillan for Rose


You forgot Blaze the Cat.


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## maxiep (May 7, 2003)

Masbee said:


> The question is who WOULDN'T trade Love and Jack for Rose?


heck, Stan Love would make that trade. 

"Kevin, we've had a good run, but I'm hitching my star to a better player"

"But you're my dad!"

"That's what makes this so hard."


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## GOD (Jun 22, 2003)

> Smart
> by Shel Silverstein
> 
> My dad gave me one dollar bill
> ...


...


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## BlazerCaravan (Aug 12, 2004)

I love that poem... it's like a play-by-play of the Shaq to Miami trade.


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## Reep (Jun 4, 2003)

GOD said:


> Try to come up with trades that have some basis in reality. Rudy + Outlaw + 2008 Pick + 2010 Pick + Cash + Raef (expiring contract) for Rose and some bad contracts. That would be somewhat possible. Anything short of that for Rose is just silly to discuss. Most likely, Aldridge would need to be added to get Rose.


Agreed. Possible (not necessarily probable).

Miami and Seattle don't have bad contracts to exchange and make this happen. 

Minnesotta (Walker, etc), Memphis (Miller, Cardinal) and NY (Zach :eek8:, Crawford, Q, Curry, etc.) all have contracts bigger than Raefs, and all have at least servicable PGs. Theoretically it would be possible with these teams. An all of them could use the extra talent that Outlaw, Rudy and #13 pick could bring them. I still don't think any would do it. NY would be the most interesting because you know they want to win now, and the want to get rid of Zach, and they need a roster overhaul. How bad do you want Rose?


Incoming Players 
Zach Randolph
Jerome James/or Quentin Richardson
Derrick Rose

Outgoing Players 
Raef LaFrentz
Travis Outlaw
Rudy Fernandez
#13 pick
2010 first round pick
2008 second round pick

A bitter pill to swallow, but I think NY would consider this. It would get rid of two bad contracts, give them two starters and two first round picks. I'm sure KP wouldn't bring Zach back (even if to just waive him), but it might get Rose. I think you would have to ask yourself if the cap space you were saving for the future would net you a better player than Rose.


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## Masbee (Dec 31, 2002)

GOD said:


> ...


And that poem illustrates what the Patterson/Nash era was like for the Blazers.

Every move, every trade, every decision, took us down, down, down.


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## Ballscientist (Nov 11, 2002)

Rose = somewhere from Jaren Jack to Baron Davis

Rose can't play good defense << Gary Payton


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## Reep (Jun 4, 2003)

Ballscientist said:


> Rose = somewhere from Jaren Jack to Baron Davis
> 
> Rose can't play good defense << Gary Payton


I'm not sure what you are saying here, but Rose is clearly closer to Baron than Jack. He is not the defensive player Gary was, but he is well above average. Rose is also a better scorer and distributer. He kind of reminds me of Terry Porter with much more speed and hops.


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## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

I like how people are judging relative values based on what mock drafts have to say. Two years ago, a post like this saying 'would you trade Brandon Roy plus Sebastian Telfair for Andrea Bargnani' would have received the same derisive reaction. 'No way we get a stud like Bargnani for a boring Brandon Roy and Telfair!' The fact is, we don't know what actual scouts think about these players. We know what mock drafts say. 

personally, I think a lot of people are undervaluing Kevin Love. I think he has top 10 value right now, but he's a damn smart player and more athletic than people give him credit for. He may end up having top 5 value. 

Love had an unprecedented freshman season in the toughest conference in the country. He can shoot, pass and rebound much better than every other PF prospect in this draft, if you consider Beasley a SF. He's unbelievably productive. His positionally adjusted win score/48 minutes (that's the main moneyball rating) is 2nd in the country to Michael Beasley. That's the same rating that said Brandon Roy and LaMarcus Aldridge were excellent prospects, while Andrea Bargnani and Adam Morrison were terrible prospects. (I can already hear the cries of 'Lies, damned lies and statistics!' That's BS...this stat is very inportant and is a very accurate predictor of future performance.

Even if he IS top 5 in value, it's unlikely that any team would go for that trade proposal, but it's not NEARLY as lopsided as many of you would like to make it look. And if you substitute anyone of any value (Webster?) for the nearly worthless Jarrett Jack, the deal is pretty even.


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## Ballscientist (Nov 11, 2002)

exactly, Love's value is top 5. Rose is horribly overrated.

Jack will be better than Microwave Ben Gordon. Remember that Rockets want Jack, and Blazers want Shane Battier in return.


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## Reep (Jun 4, 2003)

Ballscientist said:


> exactly, Love's value is top 5. Rose is horribly overrated.


Didn't the guy just average 20+ pts, 6.5 reb and 6 asst with an A:T of 6:1 as a freshman in the tournament? Leading his team to the finals, and only losing because they couldn't his some late free throws? Is he really overrated? 

Just for comparison, Brandon averaged 20, 5.6 and 4.1 as a senior (I couldn't find his exact tournament numbers). Remember Rose is a freshman.

Love may end up being a good player. But, against an NBA-quality player around his age ([email protected]), in three games Love averaged 14.7 pts and 7.6 reb, while shooting 42% from the field. If you want to see how Love's game translates into the NBA, you should start by watching the Stanford games. Living in UCLA country I watched all of them.


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## Zybot (Jul 22, 2004)

mediocre man said:


> I would trade [snip] and Nate McMillan for Rose


Let's throw in Antonio Harvey while we are at it. Oh.. and I do find it funny that you want to hang onto Darius Miles :biggrin:


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## Ballscientist (Nov 11, 2002)

Love: 18 pts, 11 rebs
Rose: 20 pts, 5 rebs, 4 assts

That is even

Greg Oden can't stop Love!


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## Oldmangrouch (Feb 11, 2003)

Obvious caveat: it is dangerous to draw too many conclusions from one game.

That said, Love was pretty much a non-factor in the final four. By halftime he looked totally gassed and frustrated, playing against big men who aren't exactly blue chip NBA prospects. He will never be able to defend or run the floor with NBA caliber players. His absolute ceiling is Zach Randolph with a few more assists.


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## Reep (Jun 4, 2003)

Ballscientist said:


> Love: 18 pts, 11 rebs
> Rose: 20 pts, 5 rebs, 4 assts


and Tyler Hansbrough averages 23 and 10, so he must be better than both?

I'm not sure what numbers you are comparing here, but think about it this way. When Rose competed against two of the best in college (Colison/Westbrook, Augustin), he dominated them, and probably sent their draft stock down. When Love faced the best big man in the draft (Lopez), his performance dropped substantially.


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

GOD said:


> Try to come up with trades that have some basis in reality. Rudy + Outlaw + 2008 Pick + 2010 Pick + Cash + Raef (expiring contract) for Rose and some bad contracts. That would be somewhat possible. Anything short of that for Rose is just silly to discuss. *Most likely, Aldridge would need to be added to get Rose.*


yes, aldridge would probably have to be included...no way you trade roy for a rookie, regardless of how hyped up the rookie is...no way you trade your future franchise center in oden...but i think aldridge would definitely have to be part of the equation...




mediocre man said:


> I would trade Jack, Love, Sergio, Webster, Outlaw, Raef, Joel, McBob, Wafer, Koponen, Freeland, Jones, Frye, Blake and Nate McMillan for Rose


i sure teams will be jumping out of their pants to trade away a future franchise pg for your junk....


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## GOD (Jun 22, 2003)

Although I agree that Love is undervalued, I think Rose may also be undervalued, he is that good. As a freshman he has been great, especially in the tourny, but whats more is his raw skills and abilities. He has the height and strength of Deron Williams with the court vision, speed and athleticism of Chris Paul.


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## NewAgeBaller (Jan 8, 2007)

Ballscientist said:


> Rose = somewhere from Jaren Jack to Baron Davis
> 
> Rose can't play good defense << Gary Payton


What..? Rose is a good defender.. And please, don't ever - EVER - compare Rose to Jarret Jack..


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## GOD (Jun 22, 2003)

bootstrenf said:


> yes, aldridge would probably have to be included...no way you trade roy for a rookie, regardless of how hyped up the rookie is...no way you trade your future franchise center in oden...but i think aldridge would definitely have to be part of the equation...


Although an Aldridge + a little more for Rose would be fair, I don't see the Blazers doing that, mostly because Aldridge and Oden should be such perfect matches for eachother, and we have Roy already who has super court vision. It might be fair, but would not make sense for the Blazers. 

So, barring an Aldridge trade, which as I said I don't think Pritchard would consider strongly, Rose will not be a Blazer unless lightning strikes again and the Blazers luck into the 1st/2nd pick (which also will not happen)


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## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

Reep said:


> Didn't the guy just average 20+ pts, 6.5 reb and 6 asst with an A:T of 6:1 as a freshman in the tournament? Leading his team to the finals, and only losing because they couldn't his some late free throws? Is he really overrated?
> 
> Just for comparison, Brandon averaged 20, 5.6 and 4.1 as a senior (I couldn't find his exact tournament numbers). Remember Rose is a freshman.
> 
> Love may end up being a good player. But, against an NBA-quality player around his age ([email protected]), in three games Love averaged 14.7 pts and 7.6 reb, while shooting 42% from the field. If you want to see how Love's game translates into the NBA, you should start by watching the Stanford games. Living in UCLA country I watched all of them.


A few things:

1) Love was hurt in the worst of those 3 stanford games. (He averaged 16 and 9 in the two games he was healthy)
2) Brook Lopez shot 36% in those three games. 
3) Brook Lopez averaged 15.3 pts and 9 rebounds
4) Brook Lopez is considered by many/most to be a top 5 prospect.

I don't get why you use a this as an example. Kevin Love played a likely top 5 pick Brook Lopez to a standstill. If you want to use 2-3 games as a statistically relevant sample to show that Love is not a top prospect, then he probably should have really, really sucked in the games you pick as an example. He was equal to slightly better than Lopez in those three games.

Side note - what did Greg Oden average last season? 16 and 10, that's what. I fail to see where Kevin Love is such an inferior prospect based on the scoring and rebounding numbers. (I competely understand Oden is a better prospect than Love...but Love is a top 10 talent, possibly top 5.)


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## GOD (Jun 22, 2003)

I think a lot of questions about Love will be answered during pre-draft measurements. Height and wingspan to a degree, but i think jump, lane agility and sprint will go a long way towards determining where he measures up with other NBA players. He certainly has the skills and IQ to play well at the next level.


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## nikolokolus (Jan 29, 2008)

Fork said:


> A few things:
> 
> 1) Love was hurt in the worst of those 3 stanford games. (He averaged 16 and 9 in the two games he was healthy)
> 2) Brook Lopez shot 36% in those three games.
> ...


Which is why no one here is really using stats as the only measure for predicting future success for a prospect; it's got as much to do with ceiling, athleticism, and quickness as it does college game numbers.

I look at KL and I see the potential for him to be a better passing version (and maybe a slightly better defender) than Zach, but with not quite the same shooters mentality. If he somehow became a starter for a team I suppose it's conceivable he could average 16-18 PPG, and 8-9 rebounds ... however, when I look at Derrick Rose I see a guy with Jason Kidd potential -- _possible_ future HoF'er.


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## Oldmangrouch (Feb 11, 2003)

GOD said:


> I think a lot of questions about Love will be answered during pre-draft measurements. Height and wingspan to a degree, but i think jump, lane agility and sprint will go a long way towards determining where he measures up with other NBA players. He certainly has the skills and IQ to play well at the next level.


No question, the kid has well developed skills - particularly for someone his age. My bet, however, is that he grades out very poorly at the combine.


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## Reep (Jun 4, 2003)

The best argument for Love's success is that he played on a defense-oriented team, with a really bad offensive scheme, with guards who really struggled to get him the ball where he wanted it. 

Athletically, I think Love will really struggle in the NBA. But, he may end up being one of those guys who defies his looks and measurements. 

Watching Love in games, there is no denying that he has a hard time getting his shot off over a longer defender. Almost everyone he faces at the next level will be longer. 

The difference between Love and Oden is that their development needs were different. Oden needed to develop more skills, he already had the quickness and the hops. Love has the skills, but does anyone really believe that Love will develop speed and hops in the next few years. In other words, Love is close to his ceiling, Oden wasn't even close.


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## MrJayremmie (Dec 29, 2007)

This is a little unrealistic. lol.

But if this is a question... yes!


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## NateBishop3 (Jul 22, 2003)

Kevin Love = Luke Jackson 

That's what I think his career will be like in the NBA. Not very quick. Not very athletic. He'll play but he won't be very special. 

Rose on the other hand has the ability to be a Chris Paul. Someone who can make a team better. Would you guys trade Aldridge for Paul? It would be a hard decision, and right now I'm seriously torn because it's a cardinal sin to go big for small, but I might do it. I'm just not sure though.

Determining factors:

1: Aldridge is putting up All-Star numbers next to Joel and only in his second year. I think a lot of people forget that LMA was supposed to be "raw" and needed development when we drafted him. He is young, tall, athletic, and really quick for his size. He can go inside and outside. Those attributes are rare and extremely sought after in the NBA. 

2: Will Oden be as good as everyone says? We all assume that Greg Oden will be a monster in the NBA. Odds are extremely good that they are right. I've seen for my own eyes what Greg is capable of, and I can't wait to finally see what the big man can bring to the table next season. However, trading Aldridge before we even attempt to put those two together would be extremely foolish. Firstly because it would be putting all our eggs in the Greg Oden basket, and secondly because we should at least see what that combo can do.

3: While Aldridge is a rare commodity, point guards like Chris Paul seem to be more rare. How many Jason Kidds, Gary Paytons, Magic Johnsons, and Isiah Thomas', have we seen over the last three decades? You can pretty much count them on one hand. Hall of fame point guards are harder to find than All-Star big men. I believe that Paul is one of them. Will Rose be of that caliber? Will Aldridge be the next Tim Duncan or will he just be good? 

I really wish we would have seen Oden this season because if GO had played and won Rookie of the Year, I might have seriously considered this trade. This team SORELY lacks a quality point guard, and if you added Chris Paul or someone of his caliber, you would see this team mature over night into a contender. Paul is an amazing talent, I really wish we had him, and if there is a chance we could get someone capable of his play.... It's really tempting. 

Of course, how many Championships has Jason Kidd won?...

I just don't know boys and girls, I just don't know...


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## MrJayremmie (Dec 29, 2007)

You don't trade a proven young PF, who fits in greatly with the team and is perfect next to Oden for an unproved PG on the college level.

We could more easily find a PG to fit our team than a PF to fit our team like Aldridge.

Rose needs to ball in his hands to be effective, as does Roy. And Rose isn't a great outside shooter, so when Roy creates for him, it won't end up all that great.

I would involve Rudy, Outlaw, Webster, cash, our first anda future 1st for Rose, but none of the big 3 for sure. We are set up so beautifully for the future, i wouldn't want to mess with any of the pieces we have in place.

And finally, in my opinion, with Roy already our creater and our main perimeter player and scorer, a PG isn't as valuable to us as a PF of LMAs caliber. If we could get a PG that can defend, create for others and himself, help in the fast break, and run the position when necesary but also play off the ball when needed, we will be good to go.


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## NateBishop3 (Jul 22, 2003)

MrJayremmie said:


> You don't trade a proven young PF, who fits in greatly with the team and is perfect next to Oden for an unproved PG on the college level.
> 
> We could more easily find a PG to fit our team than a PF to fit our team like Aldridge.
> 
> ...


We are hypothesizing though. If Rose is as good as Chris Pual (only taller) would he be worth the risk? Did you see how Roy and Paul played together in the All-Star game? Those two almost won it for the west. We don't know how LMA and Oden will play together, just as much as we don't know how Rose and Roy would play together. 

The question is this, what is harder to find in the NBA, an MVP point guard or an All-Star power forward? 

If Rose = Paul (eventually)

Would you trade LMA for Paul? 

That is the question.


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## BlazerFan22 (Jul 4, 2006)

Hell yes! you don't need to ask me twice.


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## NewAgeBaller (Jan 8, 2007)

NateBishop3 said:


> If Rose = Paul (eventually)
> 
> Would you trade LMA for Paul?


Thats a definate and obvious YES for me.


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## NateBishop3 (Jul 22, 2003)

What I would be wondering is this, if you traded LMA for Rose, who could we get to replace Aldridge when we get some cap space in 2009? 

Here's the list from http://www.stopmikelupica.com/2007/12/nba_salary_cap_analysis_part_1.php

Drew Gooden
Allen Iverson (almost certain to re-sign with Denver)
Rasheed Wallace
Baron Davis (if he does not exercise the opt out in 2008)
Elton Brand
Lamar Odom
Kobe Bryant (option)
Jason Kidd
Stephon Marbury
Jamal Crawford (player option for 09/10 and 10/11 - 50/50)
Eddy Curry (player option for 09/10, 10/11 - 50/50)
Hedo Turkoglu (player option for 09/10, unlikely)
Andre Miller
Steve Nash (player option, unlikely)
Grant Hill
Steve Francis
Ron Artest (can opt out in '08)
Mike Bibby
Carlos Boozer (player option for 09/10 unlikely)
Mehmet Okur (player option for 09/10 unlikely)

One name jumps out at me. Carlos Boozer. He'll be 27 in November, so he's still well within our team's age group. 

What would you guys think of a lineup that had:

Rose
Roy
Outlaw
Boozer
Oden


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## GOD (Jun 22, 2003)

I would trade Aldridge for Paul, but I would not trade Aldridge for a player that may potentially be as good as Paul.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

GOD said:


> I would trade Aldridge for Paul, but I would not trade Aldridge for a player that may potentially be as good as Paul.


Yes, exactly. If God (no relation to the above poster that I am agreeing with) could assure me that Rose would be just as good at the NBA level as Chris Paul, I trade Aldridge for Rose in a heartbeat.

But considering Aldridge has already proven not to be a bust and is an excellent player for his age, I wouldn't deal him for an unproven player who could be Chris Paul or could be any number of young point guards with a lot of potential but did nothing special at the NBA level.


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## c_note (Jan 30, 2007)

Mr. Chuck Taylor said:


> While we're at it, why don't we trade Sergio for Beasley!


I was going to make a similar post, but this will suffice. No need to read further. :whistling:


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## BlayZa (Dec 31, 2002)

another mind-numbingly unlikely scenario from BS, initials of irony too btw


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## DaRizzle (May 22, 2007)

You guys all fell for BS's trap


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Masbee said:


> And that poem illustrates what the Patterson/Nash era was like for the Blazers.
> 
> Every move, every trade, every decision, took us down, down, down.


That PatterNash era and going down, down, down was what afforded us the luxury of being in position to draft players like Aldridge, Roy and Oden.


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## NateBishop3 (Jul 22, 2003)

zagsfan20 said:


> That PatterNash era and going down, down, down was what afforded us the luxury of being in position to draft players like Aldridge, Roy and Oden.


Not to mention, didn't they hire Kevin Pritchard?


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

NateBishop3 said:


> Not to mention, didn't they hire Kevin Pritchard?


Yes, I believe that was one of Nash's doings.


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## World B. Free (Mar 28, 2008)

Is this a joke? Love and Jack for Rose?


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## MrJayremmie (Dec 29, 2007)

> If Rose = Paul (eventually)
> 
> Would you trade LMA for Paul?
> 
> That is the question.


yes, but it ends there.

We woud have to do it by getting the #2 pick, because once the teams saw that he was as good as Paul, there is no way they would trade him.

So that goes back to trading Aldridge for an unproven PG.

I just wouldn't do it. If ROse turned out to be as good as paul, and all the sudden they decided to trade him, sure i'd include LMA, probably.


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## World B. Free (Mar 28, 2008)

I agree. I am starting to almost think we should try to offer LMA for Rose. I wouldn't be mad at starting Frye or finding another PF. But Frye has shown he can play almost as good as LMA.


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## Masbee (Dec 31, 2002)

NateBishop3 said:


> What I would be wondering is this, if you traded LMA for Rose, who could we get to replace Aldridge when we get some cap space in 2009?
> 
> Here's the list from http://www.stopmikelupica.com/2007/12/nba_salary_cap_analysis_part_1.php
> 
> ...


You look at that list and Boozer is the name that jumps out at you?

What makes you think Boozer is or will be itching to get out of Utah? Are they losing? Is the star guard he is paired with on the downside? What?

What about Elton Brand?

Would he be itching to get out of Clipperland? How much more likely is it that Elton Brand is or will be looking for an escape than Boozer?


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## Ballscientist (Nov 11, 2002)

There is a chance that D Rose turns out to be J Jack.

You can also make the cake bigger: Outlaw/Jack/Love for Rose/Filler.


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## hoojacks (Aug 12, 2004)

if we offered the rights to love and jarret jack for derrick rose and they accepted, KP would go to jail because it would have been such a STEAL

oh, snap

edit: oh, and when predraft workouts start, i don't think there's any way love doesn't move up into the top 10


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## Anonymous Gambler (May 29, 2006)

Ballscientist said:


> There is a chance that D Rose turns out to be J Jack.
> 
> You can also make the cake bigger: Outlaw/Jack/Love for Rose/Filler.


I wonder what is in that cake that you can come up with something like this!

I think the only way that we are getting Rose is to trade a member of the big 3 or to win the lottery.


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

World B. Free said:


> I agree. I am starting to almost think we should try to offer LMA for Rose. I wouldn't be mad at starting Frye or finding another PF. But Frye has shown he can play almost as good as LMA.


maybe it's just me, but frye is nothing close to aldridge...aldridge has the potential to be 20/10 guy for many years...not sure about frye...


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## MrJayremmie (Dec 29, 2007)

^its not just you, Frye will never even be as good as Aldridge is right now... when he is 22 years old...

Trading LMA would hurt us. I don't see us making the playoffs next year if we let Aldridge go and bring in Rose. we don't have a PF that could fill in for him unless we do Greg at PF and Pryz at Center, lol.

I'm down with doin' anything to get Rose outside our big 3. I do think that it is possible (depending on who gets the pick) to offer Rudy/Outlaw/Webster/#13 pick/Cash/2010 unconditional first/Raef for the #1-2 pick and a filler. I think it would be at least looked at. But no way we should go farther than that, and i would advise against giving up outlaw and webster.

I also think a lot of people are under-valuing the fact that we are going to get Rudy next year. The kid is a Manu Ginobli type player... Add Oden to that, and we are going to be damn scary. Imagine just adding a PG like Westbrook.. imagine how much better we would be.. a lock down defender... wow.


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