# Why Telfair may be on the block instead of Jack



## CaptK (May 29, 2006)

I've noticed a lot of rumors involving Telfair, and Jack described as the untouchable pg of the 3.

I thought this was pretty odd since Telfair seemed at least as good as the others but with more upside.

But it occured to me that Telfair might be playing a lot better in another system, where he isn't so reigned in offensively by McMillian. Also he has huge expectations and I'm sure his agent and other are whispering the same thing in his ear. Also he's an East coast big city kid, and Portland is a rather small west coast city with poor media exposure. They're also the worst team in the NBA with the worst rep in professional sports. 

Could it be that Telfair has quietly told management he'll go somewhere else after the term of his rookie deal?


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## meru (Jul 2, 2003)

Those are all good points. I happen to think that Telfair might be available just because Nash has gone. Clearly Telfair was Nash's gamble, and he had to stick by him (especially after he passed on Paul). Now the brass isn't so constrained, and might even want to get rid of him to get the bad taste of Nash out of their mouths.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

Maybe, but why should the Blazers care? Presumably he'll be no worse this time next year... maybe he'll be a lot better and a lot more valuable. Or maybe he'll be happier (this is all assuming he's unhappy and wants out).

In the mean time: he's cheap. He's well-liked in Portland by the fans. 

I don't think that if the Blazers are looking to trade him it's because of pressure that he'll leave the team 3 years from now...

Ed O.


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

from a portland standpoint why trade at all, there are more than 4 good players all of who can help the blazers. if portland takes morrison then bargnani probably drops to 4 and vice versa. stay put.


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## Blazer Freak (Jul 11, 2004)

Telfair has impressed me quite a bit this year. He was hurt, came back after losing his job, fought for it and got it back. All while finally nailing down this system.

I think he'll be the better of the 3.

Steve Blake is the one that needs to go.


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## It's_GO_Time (Oct 13, 2005)

Intersting thought. And if Telfair were to do that, my gues is he would keep it in house (unlike other Blazers).

The reason I don't think this is the case is I don't think Telfair has much marketability currently and beggers can't be choosers. If Blazers didn't pick up Telfair's option, than I think at best he is looking at a back up role on some other team and staying in the NBA by a hair.

But I realize I could be completely wrong about Telfair's value . . .


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## CaptK (May 29, 2006)

To be honest it's more a rumor being spread around NJ that i'm repeating. There's been a lot of talk about trading for Telfair, but a lot of people including the media are saying that Telfair will come to the Nets after the expiration of his contract, and that a couple years to develop in Portland would be for the best. Of course you can only trust the media so far, but it's been said by several people.


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## wastro (Dec 19, 2004)

Telfair isn't untouchable, but he's real close. If Nash was still around, I'd say Telfair is staying put, but with Patterson and Pritchard calling the shots, who knows?

But I think it's presumptuous to say that ANY of the PGs are actually on the trading block. The front office has indicated they have no problem going into next season with all 3 point guards in tact.


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## CatchNRelease (Jan 2, 2003)

CaptK said:


> I've noticed a lot of rumors involving Telfair, and Jack described as the untouchable pg of the 3.


I was going to ask where you were hearing that, because I don't remember many realistic ST trade rumors, other than fans throwing out ideas. I also don't know why Portland would consider Jack untradeable. I'm pretty sure they'd trade him for D-Wade. :biggrin: 



CaptK said:


> To be honest it's more a rumor being spread around NJ that i'm repeating. There's been a lot of talk about trading for Telfair, but a lot of people including the media are saying that Telfair will come to the Nets after the expiration of his contract, and that a couple years to develop in Portland would be for the best. Of course you can only trust the media so far, but it's been said by several people.


Are the several people that you mention just fans on the internet, or are they someone that might know what's going on with the Nets?

I could sure be wrong, but Nash or no Nash, I think trade talk about ST would still give the Blazers the willies, for fear of pulling another J. O'Neal. I doubt anyone on the team is untradeable, but I'm think'n they'll want to see another year from both JJ and ST before they decide on who to build around.

Go Blazers


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## CaptK (May 29, 2006)

> I was going to ask where you were hearing that, because I don't remember many realistic ST trade rumors, other than fans throwing out ideas. I also don't know why Portland would consider Jack untradeable. I'm pretty sure they'd trade him for D-Wade.


Well there was a Chris Ford article where he said something along the lines of Portland considers Webster and Jack untouchable, it was in reference to trading up for #1. I agree, kind of a dubious source



> Are the several people that you mention just fans on the internet, or are they someone that might know what's going on with the Nets?


There was an article in the Star Ledger, and it's been talked about on local sports radio. As far as whether they actually have inside info, I don't know.


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## southnc (Dec 15, 2005)

Blazer Freak said:


> Telfair has impressed me quite a bit this year. He was hurt, came back after losing his job, *fought for it and got it back.* All while finally nailing down this system.
> 
> I think he'll be the better of the 3.
> 
> Steve Blake is the one that needs to go.


 He (Telfair) never won the job back. Near the end of the season, the team announced a rotating system of starting different PGs for evaluation purposes. They even had Blake starting at the SG position in some circumstances.

A statement like that should have verbal or written proof from a Blazer official (coach, etc) to back that up. Do you have a source or did you just make it up?


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## Blazer Freak (Jul 11, 2004)

southnc said:


> He (Telfair) never won the job back. Near the end of the season, the team announced a rotating system of starting different PGs for evaluation purposes. They even had Blake starting at the SG position in some circumstances.
> 
> A statement like that should have verbal or written proof from a Blazer official (coach, etc) to back that up. Do you have a source or did you just make it up?


Nope, but thats what the broadcasting team was saying toward the end of the season, and when they interviewed Nate he would say he liked how Telfair has worked his way back..


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## southnc (Dec 15, 2005)

Blazer Freak said:


> Nope, but thats what the broadcasting team was saying toward the end of the season, and when they interviewed Nate he would say he liked how Telfair has worked his way back..


 I agree that Telfair definately improved his game towards the end of the season. But, I think the starting PG position is still up in the air, so to speak. This kind of uncertainty can be pretty stressful for the team, which is why I agree with others that one of the PGs will have to be moved before next season.


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## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

Let's see, Blazers pass on Paul in 05 and trade Telfair in 06....Yep that's what there plan was the whole time. Pritchard.....IIRC likes Telfair, so he doesn't have to worry about that. Telfair has said publicly anyway that he likes Portland and wants to be here. 



STOP TRYING TO TRADE TELFAIR!!!!!!!


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

mediocre man said:


> Let's see, Blazers pass on Paul in 05 and trade Telfair in 06....Yep that's what there plan was the whole time.


You still think that they had a plan?

Ed O.


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## Utherhimo (Feb 20, 2005)

i dont want telfair to go anywhere I like him, telfair and jack have a nice mix of skills


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## Kmurph (May 7, 2003)

I love the speculation that we should trade Telfair b\c he will "head east" when his contract is up...but Jarrett Jack? No...no...He will be a loyal Blazer until his dying days...

What is to stop Jack from leaving first chance he gets? Um...nothing....

and the speculation about Telfair and the east coast and specifically NJ is no surprise since Jay-Z is part owner of the Nets...Telfair and Jay-Z are friends as are many other NBA players...I guess there all going there then huh?

Pritchard has repeatedly spoken very highly of Telfair....so I really don't see POR unloading him....

and J.Jack is a good young PG, but some of you here..GROSSLY overrate him...He is 3yrs older than Telfair and has 3yrs of major college experience to his resume, and he couldn't even outplay Telfair last year...

Oh but he has a bad wheel you say? Funny how some of you qualify Jack's performance as playing at "80%" ...but yet you fail to give the same qualifications to Telfair who played with a bad wrist...

The bottom line is many of you don't like Telfair b\c of where he is from and b\c of the hype he has been given and so you root for him to fail...any excuse is good enough I guess...The backlash against him here in this forum and elsewhere is beyond ridiculous....

He has shown improvement each year...coming from HS...adapting to two different coaches (3 if you count Pritchard)..with two completely different coaching styles\philosophies...and yet ...after 2 chaotic filled years....and at the age of 20 years old...many of you want to label him a bust already......

I hope you don't get your wish....b\c this franchise will rue the day they dealt Telfair....I seriously doubt that would be the case for Jack....


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## Sambonius (May 21, 2003)

Kmurph said:


> I love the speculation that we should trade Telfair b\c he will "head east" when his contract is up...but Jarrett Jack? No...no...He will be a loyal Blazer until his dying days...
> 
> What is to stop Jack from leaving first chance he gets? Um...nothing....
> 
> ...


 :clap: Best post I've read in a long time, true story.


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## Blazer Freak (Jul 11, 2004)

Kmurph said:


> I love the speculation that we should trade Telfair b\c he will "head east" when his contract is up...but Jarrett Jack? No...no...He will be a loyal Blazer until his dying days...
> 
> What is to stop Jack from leaving first chance he gets? Um...nothing....
> 
> ...


Halle****inleuah. Exactly what I've been saying in almost every bad Telfair thread. He's had 2 different coaches, and had to adjust to both. May I add those are 2 VERY different coaching styles. 

At the end of the year, Telfair picked up where he left off earlier in the season, averaging around 12/5. For a 20 year old PG, that's pretty damn good. Blake didn't even average that for a month, but too some, he was the savior. Blake needs to go. He's 26, and ain't getting better. Telfair and Jack both improved over the course of the season while Blake just kept steady. On a young team, you need to reward improvement. Not stick the player behind some 26 year old PG.

When Telfair had total control toward the end of the season, we saw something great. When he had the power to call the plays, he had the ability to do that. That in a 20 year old, is rare. Even in some point guards it is. 

Sure Telfair isn't the biggest, or the strongest point guard. But he sure wants to be, and you can see the improvement, and his work ethic. We all say Bassy when he came into the NBA. He was pretty skinny, bicep-wise. But after just one full season and an offseason, this last season he came in bulked up. 

His shooting %'s after his injury weren't great at all, as he shot somewhere around 36%, but if you look at the month before he was hurt, and the last month of the season you will see his %'s were higher. In the first month of the season he shot 40.8% from the field, and in the last month of the season he shot 48%.(ESPN) 

Overall, I guess this post was to just tell the people who don't believe in Telfair, to just give him some time. He'll show you what he can do. Telfair is going to be one special player in this league, and will lead the Trail Blazers to great things.


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## hasoos (Jan 3, 2003)

I hope they keep both Jack and Bassy. I believe if both PG continue to improve it gives Portland a situation much like Dallas has now, with the ability to cause matchup problems with either size or speed as needed.


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## letsmakeadeal (Feb 23, 2006)

hasoos said:


> I hope they keep both Jack and Bassy. I believe if both PG continue to improve it gives Portland a situation much like Dallas has now, with the ability to cause matchup problems with either size or speed as needed.


what makes you think it will be different next year?
they didnt do well together last year? we were what dead last in the NBA

come on reality check is they are all available.
sad to think CARTERS " DIAPERS" in lockeroom is just a joke
we need talented and good ballers who "know how to win

the addige upside is like tits on a boar "worthless". whith the current team


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## soonerterp (Nov 13, 2005)

Blazer Freak said:


> Halle****inleuah. Exactly what I've been saying in almost every bad Telfair thread. He's had 2 different coaches, and had to adjust to both. May I add those are 2 VERY different coaching styles.
> 
> At the end of the year, Telfair picked up where he left off earlier in the season, averaging around 12/5. For a 20 year old PG, that's pretty damn good. Blake didn't even average that for a month, but too some, he was the savior. Blake needs to go. He's 26, and ain't getting better. Telfair and Jack both improved over the course of the season while Blake just kept steady. On a young team, you need to reward improvement. Not stick the player behind some 26 year old PG.
> 
> ...


I like you and think you're a good poster, so don't take this the wrong way:

I like Telfair too -- I do not consider myself one of the haters -- and in all likelihood he stays a Blazer even if he was Nash's guy. But remember, Nash ALSO signed Steve Blake (who no longer wanted to be with the Wizards, not necessarily the other way around ... he was also interested in Cleveland but because he was restricted it was believed that DC would match any offer to a conference rival), and I respectfully disagree with you that Blake isn't going to get any better -- he's still young as well, just not as young as Telfair. Twenty-six isn't exactly one foot in the grave. Also, unlike Telfair, Blake has NCAA experience and (like Jack) some of that has come in significant, widely-exposed NCAA games. Is Blake going to be a Nash or a Stockton? Probably not, but he will give you (or any team) his all and he'll work his tail off.

I still believe that a LOT of Telfair's improvement, IN ADDITION TO Telfair's own diligent hard work, especially to come back from injury, had to do with his (and Jack's) being pushed by a slightly more experienced guard -- which is one of the things that Blake was signed to do if I'm not mistaken.

One thing that Telfair has some advantage in is intangible -- he's willing to be a vocal leader whereas the somewhat more low-key Blake is a "lead by example" guy. It is possible that perhaps McMillan -- who has also HIGHLY praised Blake as much as he has Telfair -- would probably prefer a more vocal guy whos willing to speak up and get onto guys for slacking off ... in which case Telfair instead of Blake, might be that guy.

Furthermore, BOTH players are working hard this summer -- Telfair is working hard to prepare for Summer League participation; Blake is, as well documented, staying around Portland and spending a lot of time at the practice facility (and apparently he was present at Thursday's predraft workout with Gay, Morrison, Roy, etc.)

We shall see what happens ... I would be okay if Blake remained in Portland but realize that it might be more financially advantageous to trade him, and there are teams out there needing points (Cleveland and New Jersey to name two, perhaps Boston too). In all honesty I think McMillan is trying to be delicate when it comes to discussion of his three-headed point guard ... it isn't like any of them suck, and as I've said before, its one of the few GOOD problems the Blazers have. If Blake stays, great. If not, that's okay too. The Blazers would have done what the Blazers felt they needed to do (although let's face it, there's some guys in the FO who are a few fries short of a Happy Meal).

As that lady said in _O Brother, Where Art Thou_, I've said my piece and counted to three.


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## 22ryno (Mar 17, 2003)

Watching you guys last season. Your team plays too slow for Telfair which is why he doesn't do as well. If you pick up the tempo, you will see a totally different player.


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## crandc (Sep 15, 2004)

In fact I think both KMurph and soonerterp are right. I think the team is pleased with Telfair's progress (unlike some on the board, they did not expect him to turn into Stockton or Magic his 2nd year out of hs) and that Blake was brought in, not only to help push the young guys, but to provide some veteran steadiness. 
Sure, the team will trade Bassy for WAde, but that is unlikely to happen.
This time of year, really until the season starts, everyone and their cousin has a hot rumor. If you try to keep up with them all you will get a headache and a sore typing finger. I doubt if either Telfair or Jack is "on the block".


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## blue32 (Jan 13, 2006)

bah to this, they both rock and it'd be stupid for us to dump either of them...

What we need to do is dump dixon; and then just rotate our three pronged PG's into a 2-spot every now and then....

that's if of course we draft the stache


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## Blazer Freak (Jul 11, 2004)

soonerterp said:


> I like you and think you're a good poster, so don't take this the wrong way:
> 
> I like Telfair too -- I do not consider myself one of the haters -- and in all likelihood he stays a Blazer even if he was Nash's guy. But remember, Nash ALSO signed Steve Blake (who no longer wanted to be with the Wizards, not necessarily the other way around ... he was also interested in Cleveland but because he was restricted it was believed that DC would match any offer to a conference rival), and I respectfully disagree with you that Blake isn't going to get any better -- he's still young as well, just not as young as Telfair. Twenty-six isn't exactly one foot in the grave. Also, unlike Telfair, Blake has NCAA experience and (like Jack) some of that has come in significant, widely-exposed NCAA games. Is Blake going to be a Nash or a Stockton? Probably not, but he will give you (or any team) his all and he'll work his tail off.
> 
> ...


I know that they brought in Blake for that reason last year, but I just think that they went overboard when Blake kept starting after Telfair and Jack were ready to play. But I see they did that just to challenge them and I get that. 

I wouldn't be opposed to keeping Blake, but only in a 3rd String, emergency role. 

Also, 26 may not be old, but Steve Blake, atleast in my opinion has hit his peak, and may stay here for 2-3 more years, then decline. But he isn't good enough to be taking PT away from Telfair and Jack.

I think it just annoys me that a 26 year old took time away from our young guys when we need them to develop to get out of the lottery and back into the playoffs.


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## ProudBFan (Apr 29, 2003)

I think, right now, Telfair just has more "trade value" than Jack. Jack was playing injured all last season, and is coming off recent surgery to correct the problem. That scares teams, especially in a rookie.

The Blazers are rumored to be trying to find a new home for Darius. And they also have the PG log-jam to deal with. The obvious solution is to sweeten the Darius deal with one of the young PGs. Now which of them is likely to sweeten the deal more, right now?

I'd still like to see the Blazers hold onto both Telfair and Jack to see which of the two shines brightest after another year of head-to-head competition. But I can certainly understand if the Blazers want to move Darius so badly that they are willing to send one of them (instead of Blake) with Darius to greener pastures.

PBF


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## Foulzilla (Jan 11, 2005)

letsmakeadeal said:


> what makes you think it will be different next year?
> they didnt do well together last year? we were what dead last in the NBA


Because for some unknown reason we expect young players to get better over time. Crazy, isn't it?


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## yakbladder (Sep 13, 2003)

Blazer Freak said:


> I know that they brought in Blake for that reason last year, but I just think that they went overboard when Blake kept starting after Telfair and Jack were ready to play. But I see they did that just to challenge them and I get that.
> 
> I wouldn't be opposed to keeping Blake, but only in a 3rd String, emergency role.
> 
> ...


I think one of the biggest mistakes people make is that they presume because a player is younger that they will absolutely get better as time goes along. That simply isn't true. It just means they have more years to get better before they reach retirement. Look at Outlaw. He was on a plateau all last year. Blake could get significantly better each of the next three years and Telfair could bottom out. Is it likely? Well, honestly, who really knows? No one.

You can't just continue to draft guys and then hold onto them forever because of their "potential". If you do that, you won't have a winning team. I'm not saying to necessarily trade Telfair, but if the right deal came along, and it wouldn't have to be Dwayne W. for Telfair, I'd do it.


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## Blazer Freak (Jul 11, 2004)

yakbladder said:


> I think one of the biggest mistakes people make is that they presume because a player is younger that they will absolutely get better as time goes along. That simply isn't true. It just means they have more years to get better before they reach retirement. Look at Outlaw. He was on a plateau all last year. Blake could get significantly better each of the next three years and Telfair could bottom out. Is it likely? Well, honestly, who really knows? No one.
> 
> You can't just continue to draft guys and then hold onto them forever because of their "potential". If you do that, you won't have a winning team. I'm not saying to necessarily trade Telfair, but if the right deal came along, and it wouldn't have to be Dwayne W. for Telfair, I'd do it.


Yeah I know that a lot of it is potential. But since you can't measure potential, you have to see what the player improves and how much. Blake throughout last season didn't get better, he was steady throughout. Telfair was doing fine at the beginning, got hurt and at the end of the season had an improved jumper, he was finishing better, and had control of the offense. For Jack, it was a matter of learning the NBA, and you could see improvment in how he knew how to get to the basket. 

With Outlaw, your right. He hit a plateau, but the year before he really got his jumper down, and IMO it's just a matter of his lack of confidence. 

With potential you never know, but if a player has a good work ethic, it heightens his chances to become a great player. And Blake doesn't have potential. He might get a little better, but he will never be a top tier PG.


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## Utherhimo (Feb 20, 2005)

trade miles and blake keep jack and telfair


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## Blazer Freak (Jul 11, 2004)

Utherhimo said:


> trade miles and blake keep jack and telfair


Hmmm. Great insight.


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## crandc (Sep 15, 2004)

I doubt if anyone has guaranteed that a young player will get better. But if you have 2 players at roughly the same level, one of them a 19 year old his second year out of high school, the other a 28 year old with 3 years college and 5 in the NBA, which do you think is more likely to be at a plateau? Which is more likely to still have room for improvement?
No guarantee, just likelihood.


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## yakbladder (Sep 13, 2003)

crandc said:


> I doubt if anyone has guaranteed that a young player will get better. But if you have 2 players at roughly the same level, one of them a 19 year old his second year out of high school, the other a 28 year old with 3 years college and 5 in the NBA, which do you think is more likely to be at a plateau? Which is more likely to still have room for improvement?
> No guarantee, just likelihood.


Some people in other threads have pretty much guaranteed that Telfair will improve while Blake will hold steady. As to your example, I don't know, can you give me the intelligence factors for each player and their off-season regimen? Let's put a 28 year old who is learning how to get calls and workout and play inside of a brand new, complex system against a dumber-than-a-post 19 year old who eats Twinkies all off-season and see who is more likely to improve from year to year. My point is, there are many other factors besides age. Yes, you get to continue to roll the dice. But every year you roll the dice for player X, you are taking away the dice from someone who is much more likely to roll the number you want.

Actually, I could extrapolate this a lot farther and show how your risk-reward declines over a set of years as you continue to throw an unknown quality vs a known quality, but I'd need Ed's patience in digging up a plethora of numbers for statistical analysis.


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## Masbee (Dec 31, 2002)

CaptK said:


> To be honest it's more a rumor being spread around NJ that i'm repeating. There's been a lot of talk about trading for Telfair, but a lot of people including the media are saying that Telfair will come to the Nets after the expiration of his contract, and that a couple years to develop in Portland would be for the best. Of course you can only trust the media so far, but it's been said by several people.


How many times have there been hot and heavy rumours that a player was going to ditch the team that drafted them?

How many times has that same player turned down a decent multi-year contract extension if offerered by the team that drafted them, plays their final year with a one-year qualifying offer contract, and then one-year later, does in-fact leave? List those players please.

It is rare indeed.

Chances are Telfair is the one that has to do the wooing of the Blazers, not the other way around, seeing how he has yet to set the league on fire.

Chances are if the Blazers want to keep Telfair, they can.

Chances are if Telfair does bolt for the East Coast, it will be because he isn't really that good (yet) and the Blazers are afraid to commit to a big multi-year deal, and let him go.

The one ace for Telfair is his endorsement money. That gives him more of a financial cushion than other players of his caliber, which may give him the comfort to turn down a big multi-year contract offer, if he really does want to leave, and/or the sponser(s) pressure him into a big(er) market.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

crandc said:


> I doubt if anyone has guaranteed that a young player will get better. But if you have 2 players at roughly the same level, one of them a 19 year old his second year out of high school, the other a 28 year old with 3 years college and 5 in the NBA, which do you think is more likely to be at a plateau? Which is more likely to still have room for improvement?
> No guarantee, just likelihood.


Total truth, crandc.

Ed O.


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## Utherhimo (Feb 20, 2005)

crandc is speaking the truth


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## Verro (Jul 4, 2005)

Bad teams are generally supposed to have a lot of young prospects. Unfortunately, we only have two that I view as having any chance to become stars, Webster and Telfair. Trading Telfair for anything short of another very good young prospect or a very high pick would be stupid.


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## tlong (Jan 6, 2003)

I still can't understand why people think Telfair has such a high ceiling? IMO, Jack has a higher ceiling than Telfair. He was a star at Georgia Tech and was the most consistent rookie we've had on the Blazers over the last few years. Not too mention he was playing on a bum ankle. He is bigger and stronger than Telfair and has proven himself to be a star against a higher level of competition. If you had to trade one of these two it would be a no-brainer.


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## Kmurph (May 7, 2003)

Jack a star at G.Tech? Come on now tlong....

He had some great moments there....particularly that NCAA playoff run as a Soph? But to call him a star is a little overboard....

and the most consistent rookie? He had a good rookie season...but his stats nor his play were superior to Telfair who is three years his junior...

and it is disingeuous of you to mention Jack playing on a bum ankle as some sort of reason\evidence that he could have played better...particularly without mentioning Telfair's wrist injury....

I like them both...but the decision of whom to trade is certainly not a no-brainer and I can make a much more compelling arguement (and have) why POR should keep Telfair over Jack if a decision had to be made b\t the two...

The fact that you can't give up your hate...and it is hate tlong...of Telfair...ruins just about any meaningful point you try to make on the subject....


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## Utherhimo (Feb 20, 2005)

why not just keep both and watch them play?


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## tlong (Jan 6, 2003)

Kmurph said:


> Jack a star at G.Tech? Come on now tlong....
> 
> He had some great moments there....particularly that NCAA playoff run as a Soph? *But to call him a star is a little overboard....*
> and the most consistent rookie? He had a good rookie season...but his stats nor his play were superior to Telfair who is three years his junior...
> ...


Jack was 2nd team All-ACC and honorable mention All-America during his junior year. That means he was a star in my book. And I don't hate Telfair. I hate that the Blazers were stupid enough to draft him where they did.


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## Kmurph (May 7, 2003)

> And I don't hate Telfair. I hate that the Blazers were stupid enough to draft him where they did.


semantics


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## Reep (Jun 4, 2003)

Kmurph said:


> and the most consistent rookie? He had a good rookie season...but his stats nor his play were superior to Telfair who is three years his junior...


Just to be clear, it was Nate, not tlong, that labled Jack as his most consistant player, on more than one occasion. proof 



> “Jack has done well,” says McMillan, offering the highest of compliments when he adds, “He’s been the most consistent player on the team this season. I know each night what I’m going to get from him.”


Telfair and Jack are different players with different skills. Who is "better" depends on what you like. Telfair will never be 6'3". Jack will never be as quick as Telfair. It doesn't matter what their age is. I prefer Jack's game to Telfair's. It doesn't mean I "hate" (it hurts my ears to listen to people grossly misuse that word--please stop) Telfair. I can appreciate what people see in Telfair. There is no absolute valuation of which player is better, or which player has more potential. 

Even though I prefer Jack, I wouldn't mind a trade that netted some more useful value for him for the greater good of the team. Same for Telfair. I would like to see us move one of them because I don't think either one will reach his potential while they are splitting duty. And once that decision is made, the other automatically will lose trade value as a backup point guard. If the Blazers keep both, fine. They can put off the decision for another year. However, the decision will have to be made. Telfair and Jack cannot coexist as battling point guards.


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## tobybennett (Jun 12, 2003)

I see a lot of reason for Telfair to sign with NJ in a couple years. jay-z owns the team and they are tight.. lol. Portland should keep Jack and Telfair, trade Blake along with Miles for a couple young players (if anyone wants miles).


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## Reep (Jun 4, 2003)

tobybennett said:


> (if anyone wants miles).


I think you should capitalize the "if".


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## ThePrideOfClyde (Mar 28, 2006)

lol. Telfair will not be traded. Keep dreaming, Nets and Knicks fans.


Rofl.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

Reep said:


> It doesn't matter what their age is.


Why?

Age does matter. The closer one is to one's prime age, the less likely one is to improve. Telfair being substantially younger than Jack and yet virtually equivalent in current ability suggests that Telfair will be superior in his prime than Jack will be in his.

For future projections, age is one of the _most_ relevant factors.


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## 2k (Dec 30, 2005)

22ryno said:


> Watching you guys last season. Your team plays too slow for Telfair which is why he doesn't do as well. If you pick up the tempo, you will see a totally different player.


Thats what the Sonics tried to do when Nate left Seattle and look where it got them. Unless you have crazy talent like the Suns you have to fast break off rebounds and defense.


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## Blazer Freak (Jul 11, 2004)

Minstrel said:


> Why? Because you don't want it to matter? Age does matter. The closer one is to one's prime age, the less likely one is to improve. Telfair being substantially younger than Jack and yet virtually equivalent in current ability suggests that Telfair will be superior in his prime than Jack will be in his.
> 
> For future projections, age is one of the _most_ relevant factors.


Ding Ding Ding. One of my main points against Blake. I have no problem with him on the team, but when he takes PT away from our young guys, that's when I get mad.


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## Storyteller (Dec 31, 2002)

I'd hate to see the Blazers give up on Telfair right now just because they think they have to make a choice at PG today. But if the right offer came along, of course, I don't consider him to be "untouchable".


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## yakbladder (Sep 13, 2003)

Minstrel said:


> Why?
> 
> Age does matter. The closer one is to one's prime age, the less likely one is to improve. Telfair being substantially younger than Jack and yet virtually equivalent in current ability suggests that Telfair will be superior in his prime than Jack will be in his.
> 
> For future projections, age is one of the _most_ relevant factors.


I disagree...still. The only thing age will tell you is how many more chances to improve. It has NOTHING to do with whether they will or will not improve. You can be less likely or more likely or whatever you'd like to be, but that's why it's not a 100% guarantee either way. 

If Outlaw had played as much as he has and were one year younger than Telfair would you be saying the same thing? I doubt it, because people realize that Outlaw has limitations that will prevent his potential from being realized. His age may allow him more chances at improving but his attributes are a most definitive block on him improving.

By the way, I wouldn't label Telfair as "virtually equivalent" because they bring different things to the team. In fact, I would go so far as to say Jack will be superior in many fields that Telfair is deficient in and vice versa.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

yakbladder said:


> I disagree...still. The only thing age will tell you is how many more chances to improve. It has NOTHING to do with whether they will or will not improve. You can be less likely or more likely or whatever you'd like to be, but that's why it's not a 100% guarantee either way.


I disagree on two fronts. First of all, a younger player tends not to be at their physical or emotional maturity yet, and the farther away from it they are, the more room they have to improve. The physical growth between ages 19 and 23 is simply more important than between 23 and 27... a boy becomes a man in the former period.

The second front is whether it's the quality and the quantity of the "chances" to improve or the JUST the quantity (as you state is the case): it doesn't matter. An increase in the chances improves the odds of improvement.

If we each have fairly weighted coins, and we are having a series of tosses where we want to get heads... and I get to flip the coin three times for every time you get to flip, who's going to end up with more heads?

Age matters. The real question is just how much it does.

Ed O.


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## Kmurph (May 7, 2003)

I don't think POR wants to deal Telfair or Jack...

Some interesting comments from Columbian....



> JACK: NO TRUTH TO RUMOR
> Blazers point guard Jarrett Jack's name has been frequently floated in trade rumors, most notably in a deal with Toronto -- a team in need of a point guard -- for the No. 1 overall pick that would presumably allow the Blazers to draft Adam Morrison. But Jack said he and his agent were told by Blazers personnel that the rumor had no substance.
> 
> "We talked to (Blazers Director of Player Personnel) Kevin Pritchard, and he said there was no truth to it," Jack said. "So I'm taking his word for it."
> ...


http://www.columbian.com/sports/blazerbanter/


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

yakbladder said:



> I disagree...still. The only thing age will tell you is how many more chances to improve. It has NOTHING to do with whether they will or will not improve. You can be less likely or more likely or whatever you'd like to be, but that's why it's not a 100% guarantee either way.


You're not arguing anything I said. I also used "likelier," I said nothing about guarantees.

There are pretty well-established models for how athletes improve by age (a bell curve that tends to peak at age 28-32 or so), so where you are on that curve says a lot about where you're likely to end up.

Obviously, that's the mean of many, many athletes. Specific athletes can be outliers and exceptions. But those are rare. Maybe Telfair is one of those rare exceptions and won't improve much despite being far from his peak. Maybe Jack is one of the rare exceptions and will suddenly improve drastically despite being closer to his peak. But odds are that Telfair has considerably more improvement ahead of him.



> If Outlaw had played as much as he has and were one year younger than Telfair would you be saying the same thing? I doubt it, because people realize that Outlaw has limitations that will prevent his potential from being realized.


I would be saying the same thing, in that Outlaw would be further from his peak and would have more improvement ahead of him (that is, a greater amount of his final ability still to be realized). But one can only improve up to one's ceiling. Outlaw's ceiling seems low, because he _hasn't_ been much good at an equivalent age and hasn't improved much. That suggests his bell curve is much flatter and therefore peaks much lower.

Telfair and Jack are virtual equals at this point in time. But this performance level is further back on Telfair's age/performance bell curve than Jack's, so that suggests that his bell curve is steeper than Jack's...that by the time he reaches Jack's age, he'll be considerably better than Jack is now. Which in turn suggests that Telfair's peak is higher.



> By the way, I wouldn't label Telfair as "virtually equivalent" because they bring different things to the team.


I'm talking about production. They were virtually equivalent in how much they produced, as measured by PER, which factors in scoring, scoring efficiency, rebounding, assists, steals, blocks and turnovers. All adjusted for pace.


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## soonerterp (Nov 13, 2005)

Blazer Freak said:


> I know that they brought in Blake for that reason last year, but I just think that they went overboard when Blake kept starting after Telfair and Jack were ready to play. But I see they did that just to challenge them and I get that.
> 
> I wouldn't be opposed to keeping Blake, but only in a 3rd String, emergency role.
> 
> ...


I feel you however Blake is better than a third stringer -- something he proved this past season while Telfair was convalescing with the wrist injury ... in which case I absolutely don't have an issue with him being traded away if it means he'll have more PT, which isn't going to happen in Portland in the name of developing the younger players (which also needs to happen). I do kind of think it sucks for Portland because Blake's intangibles would be missed.

Like I've said before, its a good problem for the Blazers to have but it isn't really fair to all three gentlemen if they want PT.


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