# Kobe's Defense



## Bartholomew Hunt (Mar 4, 2003)

It's really an article comparing Jordan and Kobe, but I'd rather not get into that. I found this part interesting.

<a href="http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-22-143/Tex-Winter-Compares-Kobe-Bryant-and-Michael-Jordan.html">LINK</a>



> Winter also admits that Bryant abandons aspects of the triangle offense with some regularity. But that's not Winter's main complaint with the guard:
> 
> "I'd like to see him play better defense," Winter said, adding that he had addressed the issue recently with Bryant but didn't come away with the idea that Bryant was intent on changing his approach.
> 
> ...


I've stated numerous times that I don't like Kobe's "free safety" role defensively. People say that Shaq helped Kobe defensively. That's true in some ways, but it's not like he gambled excessively because he had a big man backing him up. Kobe played legit lockdown, one on one defense. People also say that he must conserve energy to carry the scoring load. I can accept that, but it still doesn't address his defensive style. Most of you agree that communication is our main deficiency and Kobe plays a part in this with his random switching and roaming. Numerous times, his man has been left wide open on the perimeter to stick an open three. Other times, he just lacks the effort. I'm not singling Kobe out since plenty of players on this team are far more atrocious defensively. I just feel that as the leader of this team, he should take advantage of the ability that he DOES have and attempt to shutdown his man like he preached in SLAM magazine. Playing the passing lanes all game is more detrimental than sagging man-to-man defense IMO and this goes back to Phil. I don't even want to get into pick and roll defense. I've never seen a playoff team defend it worse than this team.


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## Eternal (Sep 7, 2005)

I wasn't aware we even had a defense against the pick and roll. Seems like teams just score at will when they do the pick and roll on us.

I also agree Kobe needs to start lockdowning his man and stop roaming around trying to go for the steal everytime. I can't recall how many times other teams would get key shots, b/c of Kobe not guarding his man.


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## Theonee (Dec 5, 2006)

I think Kobe is conserving his energy. At the same time, Kobe's worst is 100x better than Smush's best.


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## Silk D (Feb 6, 2006)

if kobe would always play D like he does when he faces Ray Allen, Vince Carter, or T-mac, he'd be the DPY. he has that kind of ability. I understand he needs to conserve energy, but someone as talented as he is can play really good defense w/o draining themselves. he really, REALLY pisses me off sometimes with his weak rotations and close-outs. not closing out and challenging a shooter is not conserving energy, it's just lazy. kobe needs to set an example for the rest of the team.


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## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

What more do you want from Kobe I mean really. All the belly aching about him resting on defense. I mean he averaged over 50 for 5 games and yet the whining because he doesn't have the energy to play lockdown defense every night. I mean MJ had pippen, On both ends he made it easier and less energy draining for MJ. Kobe doesn't have that sorta player on this team. I can't knock him for resting. 

Some of yall complaints are for Mitch in not getting us a defender to play the 1 and 3 spots.


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## Pinball (Aug 3, 2002)

jazzy1 said:


> What more do you want from Kobe I mean really. All the belly aching about him resting on defense. I mean he averaged over 50 for 5 games and yet the whining because he doesn't have the energy to play lockdown defense every night. I mean MJ had pippen, On both ends he made it easier and less energy draining for MJ. Kobe doesn't have that sorta player on this team. I can't knock him for resting.
> 
> Some of yall complaints are for Mitch in not getting us a defender to play the 1 and 3 spots.


Kobe's defense can't even be described as "average" at times. Sometimes he gives absolutely no effort at all and it's pathetic. He hypes himself up as a lockdown defender who prides himself on defense but that couldn't be further from the truth this year. Quite frankly, he hasn't played quality defense since the Rudy T season.


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## Eternal (Sep 7, 2005)

Pinball said:


> Kobe's defense can't even be described as "average" at times. Sometimes he gives absolutely no effort at all and it's pathetic. He hypes himself up as a lockdown defender who prides himself on defense but that couldn't be further from the truth this year. Quite frankly, he hasn't played quality defense since the Rudy T season.


Great post, and couldn't agree more.


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## King Sancho Fantastic (Jul 19, 2005)

Dude no doubt about the fact that Kobe is giving it his all, but hes gotta lead by example on the defensive end. Especially being one half of our startig guard combo. It sucks that he has to pick up the slack for Smush's sorry *** but you got to play with the cards youre handed. His defense has been avg at best and hes gonna need to step it up. Just because hes carrying the load offensively doesnt mean he gets a pass.


love ya Kobe but your gonna have to kick it to a new level.:clap:


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## koberules24 (Nov 12, 2006)

If his teammates didn't all play like worthless human beings (except for Walton and Turiaf they at least try on both ends of the court) he wouldn't have to rotate trying to play defense for the rest of the team.


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## koberules24 (Nov 12, 2006)

People, as well as his teammates, need to start being a little more appreciative of everything this guy does on the court instead of just looking to him to solve all of the Lakers problems. MITCH NEEDS TO GET OFF HIS ***!


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## King Sancho Fantastic (Jul 19, 2005)

koberules24 said:


> People, as well as his teammates, need to start being a little more appreciative of everything this guy does on the court instead of just looking to him to solve all of the Lakers problems. MITCH NEEDS TO GET OFF HIS ***!


I completely agree.


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## Theonee (Dec 5, 2006)

I hate Smush. Most of the time he seems half awake and his constant gambling for steals costs us some easy buckets.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

"I *hate* being scored on, even by players who some say are 'un-guardable.' I don't believe it when they say 'Oh, that player is just hot today.' F*** that! Cool his *** off then." - Kobe Bryant.

He should get back to that mentality. I know it's asking a lot of Kobe, but I think the reason is that deep down, we all think Kobe can play both offense and defense at a very high level, but sometimes, just chooses not to. He's our leader, our best player, so we expect exactly that of him: to lead us on both sides of the ball, and be the best at doing both. Is it a high expectation? Of course. But it's what we've all come to expect out of the best player in the NBA.

Don't get me wrong. I appreciate what Kobe does for us night in and night out; how can someone not? But it's not wrong for us to expect him to start playing lock down defense again like he used to. He's clearly capable of it and has shown that at times this season, but it's not close to the way he used to play defense in which he was also dominant on the offensive end. A few seasons ago, there's no way Kobe would have let Michael Redd and Gilbert Arenas go off on us like they did this season. Again, if most of us didn't think Kobe could solve these Lakers problems, then we wouldn't be asking of him to play better defense. The fact that we know he can play at a high, high level on both offense and defense is a testament to how great a player he is.

If anyone can play both sides of the ball well, it should be Kobe. The guy is in amazing shape and has a ridiculous amount of endurance. He plays so much, and never looks like he's wearing down on the court or getting tired. There's reasons we expect so much of him. Sure, it'd be nice if Mitch could get someone for us to help us out defensively, but reality is that we've got to play with the cards that we're handed (like CubanLaker stated) and right now, we're far away from a Royal Flush.


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## Bartholomew Hunt (Mar 4, 2003)

Pinball said:


> Kobe's defense can't even be described as "average" at times. Sometimes he gives absolutely no effort at all and it's pathetic. He hypes himself up as a lockdown defender who prides himself on defense but that couldn't be further from the truth this year. Quite frankly, he hasn't played quality defense since the Rudy T season.


Exactly. This reasoning that Kobe has to cover for everybody has got to stop. It was acceptable before this year, not anymore. I can understand if he was just running out of gas, but anybody who has watched recognizes the clear lack of effort he gives on the defensive end at times. He is just as responsible for the poor rotations and pick and roll defense as anybody. Conserving energy on the defensive end is detrimental, not a positive. Please don't take the homer way out by bashing me for criticizing a part of Kobe's game. I know as well as you do that without him, we are nothing. But that does not make him immune from criticism. We "complained" about Shaq's work ethic because we do he could be even better. The same case applies for Kobe on the defensive end.


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## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

Pinball said:


> Kobe's defense can't even be described as "average" at times. Sometimes he gives absolutely no effort at all and it's pathetic. He hypes himself up as a lockdown defender who prides himself on defense but that couldn't be further from the truth this year. Quite frankly, he hasn't played quality defense since the Rudy T season.


Kobe played the early season on a bum knee to me the bad defense was mostly real early when he couldn't slide laterally that well. Since that point he's been okay not nearly as bad as you're saying. 

He has played average defense the idea that he's gotta lead by example is ridiculous when he leads the whole damn team. 

What other star in the league is asked to do what you guys suggest. 

When we had a title team he was great defensively. 

Now he has to score all the points and so he rests whats the big deal. 

Where the hell is the Mitch should get run thread. 

He's the one who allowed us to play another season without a credible nba pg. 

Why is it always Kobe ain't doing this or that.

Please.


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## Pinball (Aug 3, 2002)

jazzy1 said:


> Kobe played the early season on a bum knee to me the bad defense was mostly real early when he couldn't slide laterally that well. Since that point he's been okay not nearly as bad as you're saying.
> 
> He has played average defense the idea that he's gotta lead by example is ridiculous when he leads the whole damn team.
> 
> ...


You know what, if he wants to save energy for offense, then use it on offense. Drive to the ****ing basket. Enough of this jumpshot after jummpshot after jumpshot BS. Jordan was doing that when he was 36. Kobe's beeen doing that since his mid 20s. If he can still drive the ball, he needs to drive it. There's a point when you need to abandon your jumper when it isn't falling. I've seen games where Kobe is perfectly content to pull up for jumpers and go 5-25 instead of even thinking about driving.


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## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

Pinball said:


> You know what, if he wants to save energy for offense, then use it on offense. Drive to the ****ing basket. Enough of this jumpshot after jummpshot after jumpshot BS. Jordan was doing that when he was 36. Kobe's beeen doing that since his mid 20s. If he can still drive the ball, he needs to drive it. There's a point when you need to abandon your jumper when it isn't falling. I've seen games where Kobe is perfectly content to pull up for jumpers and go 5-25 instead of even thinking about driving.


So Pin you're suggesting somehow that a man averaging over 40 ppg for a month somehow has flaws in his offenisve game that he's somehow blown chances by not creating the right sorta activity on offense. 

Come on man thats a joke. 

You're splitting hairs there. MJ's whole offensive game was built off the drive it was who he is. Kobe is built on the mid range jumper it is who he is. The zones make it tougher for him to drive to the whole all the time. 

he's shot itt bad who cares when he was over 50% and averageing over 50ppg the previous 5. 

Why all the venom for the only guy who comepete's hard as hell every minute he plays. 

He simply can't saytisfy lakers fans. I really don't recall ever a player who is less appreciated by the fans of his own team. 

Some of us are gonna really miss him when he's gone. 

I'm satisfied with his game. I understand why he's doing the things he's doing we're a flawed team he has to alter some things he normally does well to help us stay competitive. We're 6th in the West with a roster that without him would make us possibly the worst team in the league. 

of course I'd rather him drive more, of course I'd like him play lockdown defense every night and share the ball with players too timid to do anything. But he's fighting every night and that is something i respect when you see other teammates have the blank look far too often.


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## KDOS (Nov 29, 2005)

There's this theory that MJ makes it easier for his teammates, which is true. But there is this other theory, which is most often overlooked because they are captivated by MJ's dominance, "MJ's teammates really made it easier for him".

Kobe's teammates and MJ's teammates. Apples and Oranges.


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## theflyballa (Aug 8, 2006)

Kobe can't guard all 5 players on the other team. When he shuts down his man, someone else's man starts dominating. Kobe knows what he's doing. He's the best perimeter defender in the history of this game. I have never seen any player as smart as Kobe on defense.


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## ii9ce (Feb 1, 2005)

jazzy1 said:


> What more do you want from Kobe I mean really. All the belly aching about him resting on defense. I mean he averaged over 50 for 5 games and yet the whining because he doesn't have the energy to play lockdown defense every night. I mean MJ had pippen, On both ends he made it easier and less energy draining for MJ. Kobe doesn't have that sorta player on this team. I can't knock him for resting.
> 
> Some of yall complaints are for Mitch in not getting us a defender to play the 1 and 3 spots.


I agree a 100%. What the hell do you guys want from Kobe? Some of you guys should try playing organised ball and be expected to lead, take 30+shots, score 50+points, get your team mates involved etc and play lockdown D, all the while fighting double/tripple teams (usually from the best/longest defenders from the other team). 

ITS IMPOSSIBLE! He is only human! 

The greatest player ever at his position, MJ, didn't do it, no current NBA player does it. Why? Cause its asking too much. 

Dont forget that Kobe will also be expected to carry this team in the post season. I swear I do not know how he keeps it up. Man! it must be hard being Kobe Bryant - so, so much expected of you -


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## Eternal (Sep 7, 2005)

theflyballa said:


> Kobe can't guard all 5 players on the other team. When he shuts down his man, someone else's man starts dominating. Kobe knows what he's doing. He's the best perimeter defender in the history of this game. I have never seen any player as smart as Kobe on defense.


Kobe's a good defender... but he's from far the best perimeter defender to ever play the game.


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

ii9ce said:


> *I agree a 100%. What the hell do you guys want from Kobe?* Some of you guys should try playing organised ball and be expected to lead, take 30+shots, score 50+points, get your team mates involved etc and play lockdown D, all the while fighting double/tripple teams (usually from the best/longest defenders from the other team).
> 
> ITS IMPOSSIBLE! He is only human!
> 
> ...


I want Kobe Bryant to:

1- Play closer to the rim. Throwing long jumpers over 2 defenders is bad. A fadeaway shot in the paint is good.
2- Learn to play off the ball. Kobe has the quickness and the form to come out of a screen and either (i) pull up a jumper off the dribble or (ii) get to the rim;
3- Stop with the isolation plays. Kobe is not kidding anyone. If he tries to go one-on-one on the perimeter, he will get doubled. That's bad. And just because he will shoot anyway, without thinking that, with good ball movement, he will find an open guy.
4- Play smarter. Why rush shots when you can assert the offense and get people involved?
5- Play simpler. You get Odom on the low block. You pass hum the ball. You call a screen to get open. You will get the ball. You shoot. you score.


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## Silk D (Feb 6, 2006)

I want kobe to find some happy medium between ultra-passive and ultra-aggressive. Don't force the issue, but be aggressive when you have a scoring opportunity. Is that so hard? 

And I want him to lead by example on Defense. I know it's asking too much to ask him to give it his all, but he plays downright lazy on many occasions.


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## koberules24 (Nov 12, 2006)

Basel57 said:


> "I *hate* being scored on, even by players who some say are 'un-guardable.' I don't believe it when they say 'Oh, that player is just hot today.' F*** that! Cool his *** off then." - Kobe Bryant.
> 
> He should get back to that mentality. I know it's asking a lot of Kobe, but I think the reason is that deep down, we all think Kobe can play both offense and defense at a very high level, but sometimes, just chooses not to. He's our leader, our best player, so we expect exactly that of him: to lead us on both sides of the ball, and be the best at doing both. Is it a high expectation? Of course. But it's what we've all come to expect out of the best player in the NBA.
> 
> ...



Kobe wasn't even the one guarding Gilbert Arenas, Smush was. *Again you guys are expecting him to do everything both offensively and defensively while repeatedly insisting that he's not perfect but he still should be able to do all these things at once*. Well, it's a little difficult without taking too many shots or having to sacrifice one area of your game to help the team in another. Kobe's done that all season and of course people criticized him for taking on the leadership/facilitator role. And when he went off on his scoring streak people went right back to saying how selfish he was and what a ball hog he was. It will always be one thing or another with critics even Laker fans who repeatedly use him as a scapecoat for the team's offensive and defensive woes. *Kobe's defensive mentality has changed to his advantage not to a disadvantage. He's now able to read plays and cut them off before they even happen (we've won numerous games in the closing seconds because of that)*. So as opposed to just chasing guys looking for the miracle steal he's setting up the team for an all-around defensive shut down of the opponent. Now whether Smush Parker, Kwame, Bynum or any of those guys could WAKE UP DEFENSIVELY this might work. Why don't you guys start blaming the guys who don't show up to play instead of the one's who do? This Kobe blaming crap is really getting old.


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## koberules24 (Nov 12, 2006)

Silk D said:


> I want kobe to find some happy medium between ultra-passive and ultra-aggressive. Don't force the issue, but be aggressive when you have a scoring opportunity. Is that so hard?
> 
> And I want him to lead by example on Defense. I know it's asking too much to ask him to give it his all, but he plays downright lazy on many occasions.


What grass are you guys smoking? You know what you guys don't deserve to have someone like Kobe on this team if this is the way you reward him for his efforts. I have heard all kinds of ridiculous crap on this blog but CALLING KOBE LAZY??? DUDE ARE YOU ****ING HIGH?


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## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

Pinball said:


> Kobe's defense can't even be described as "average" at times. Sometimes he gives absolutely no effort at all and it's pathetic. He hypes himself up as a lockdown defender who prides himself on defense but that couldn't be further from the truth this year. Quite frankly, he hasn't played quality defense since the Rudy T season.



I totally agree now.

He used to be an elite defender durning the Lakers dynasty era. but now doesnt seem to put in the effort on the defensive end anymore. Why? I don't know.... But your right since Rudy T's era, defense has been an after thought for Kobe.

It's a shame to... Because this team seems to respond so much better on the offensive end when they put up great defense on the other end.

But what can you do.. Phil doesn't exactly demand good defense from his players.. Otherwise with a team with the kind of length the Lakers have, should be a top 5 defensive team.


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## Bartholomew Hunt (Mar 4, 2003)

You know what this looks awfully familar to? The "Shaq is immuned to criticism" rule. Every single time his defensive effort came into question, there would be people screaming HOW DARE YOU?!?! He does EVERYTHING. Except for that other whole side of the ball thing. Not even our beloved Kobe Bryant is immuned to criticism. If he is, than that is just blatant homerism and the worshipping of one player on the team that I love is something I want no part of. What do we expect from Kobe? The same thing I expect from every player on this team. If you are capable of doing something, DO IT. Guess what. Smush Parker was an NBDL player before becoming the starting PG of the Lakers. Another words, any DECENT play that he gave us was looked upon as an asset. It would be like any sort of healthy pitching the Cubs received from Wood or Prior. What happened? Smush has shown on numerous occassions that he is a capable offensive player that can mask his limitations in the offense and a very able bodied defender. Does he come close to doing this on a consistent basis? Absolutely not. But we don't refer to the fact that he was just an NBDL player a few years ago. Smush has shown he is capable, therefore his expected to play accordingly. The same goes for Kwame. The same goes for Odom. The same goes for Sasha Vujacic and every other player on this team.

What has Kobe Bryant shown he is capable of doing? Playing great all around defense. He is shown that is capable of scoring in bunches while still playing the defense that his health allows him to. Kobe's defensive lapses come from bad judgement and lack of effort. YES, I said lack of effort. The same problem that the rest of this team suffers from. I become increasingly frustrated when fans immediately brush off anything even remotely resembling criticism towards Kobe as being "unnappreciative, or singling our star out". This is not even close to the case. We have ripped every other player on this team a new one on a near weekly basis. On the same token, we bow before Kobe's great accomplishments and constantly goto bat against irrational haters on NBA General and sometimes even this forum. He carries us. But that does not mean he is exempt from improvement.


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## Silk D (Feb 6, 2006)

Bartholomew Hunt said:


> You know what this looks awfully familar to? The "Shaq is immuned to criticism" rule. Every single time his defensive effort came into question, there would be people screaming HOW DARE YOU?!?! He does EVERYTHING. Except for that other whole side of the ball thing. Not even our beloved Kobe Bryant is immuned to criticism. If he is, than that is just blatant homerism and the worshipping of one player on the team that I love is something I want no part of. What do we expect from Kobe? The same thing I expect from every player on this team. If you are capable of doing something, DO IT. Guess what. Smush Parker was an NBDL player before becoming the starting PG of the Lakers. Another words, any DECENT play that he gave us was looked upon as an asset. It would be like any sort of healthy pitching the Cubs received from Wood or Prior. What happened? Smush has shown on numerous occassions that he is a capable offensive player that can mask his limitations in the offense and a very able bodied defender. Does he come close to doing this on a consistent basis? Absolutely not. But we don't refer to the fact that he was just an NBDL player a few years ago. Smush has shown he is capable, therefore his expected to play accordingly. The same goes for Kwame. The same goes for Odom. The same goes for Sasha Vujacic and every other player on this team.
> 
> What has Kobe Bryant shown he is capable of doing? Playing great all around defense. He is shown that is capable of scoring in bunches while still playing the defense that his health allows him to. Kobe's defensive lapses come from bad judgement and lack of effort. YES, I said lack of effort. The same problem that the rest of this team suffers from. I become increasingly frustrated when fans immediately brush off anything even remotely resembling criticism towards Kobe as being "unnappreciative, or singling our star out". This is not even close to the case. We have ripped every other player on this team a new one on a near weekly basis. On the same token, we bow before Kobe's great accomplishments and constantly goto bat against irrational haters on NBA General and sometimes even this forum. He carries us. But that does not mean he is exempt from improvement.


Great, great post BH. I don't even know what else to say, other than I too will not worship kobe despite him being the only reason the lakers are not in the bottom tier of teams in the league. kobe is the best player in world, not even close IMO, but that doesn't make him immune to critisism. call me ungrateful if you want, but seriously, take it out your mouth dawg...


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## Eternal (Sep 7, 2005)

Yep, very good post BH.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

koberules24 said:


> Kobe wasn't even the one guarding Gilbert Arenas, Smush was.


Kobe was guarding him as well throughout the game...and what about the game against Milwaukee when Michael Redd went off on us? Who was guarding him?



> *Again you guys are expecting him to do everything both offensively and defensively while repeatedly insisting that he's not perfect but he still should be able to do all these things at once*.


I never said I'm expecting him to do everything both offensively and defensively. I want him to do more is all because I know he is capable of doing so. He used to score in bunches and play great defense...now he scores in bunches and plays okay defense. I understand he has to carry his team many times, and that's fine, but the Lakers main weakness is not their inability to score...it's their inability to stop the other team from scoring.



> Well, it's a little difficult without taking too many shots or having to sacrifice one area of your game to help the team in another. Kobe's done that all season and of course people criticized him for taking on the leadership/facilitator role.


Who criticized him for taking on the leadership/facilitator role? The thing with Kobe is that he's either too aggressive, or he's to passive. It seems like it's tough for him, at times, to distinguish between the two. You can see this throughout many of the games this season. A lot of times, he starts the game off passive and won't start taking over until the second half, no matter how bad a first half we're doing. In that sense, he needs to know that he needs to take over as soon as the game is getting away from us. If his teammates aren't hitting their shots, then at least he tried to set them up, and it didn't work for that time period. Other times, for example if it's somewhat of a close game and his teammates are playing well, he feels like he HAS to take over and will start settling for long jumpers, etc. What happened to the Kobe who would drive to the basket at will? Not even you can deny that settles for jumpers way too much when we know what he can do near the rim.



> And when he went off on his scoring streak people went right back to saying how selfish he was and what a ball hog he was.


Only true Laker haters were saying he was selfish. Kobe went 4-1 in the games in which he scored 50. Either the people saying he was a ball hog were joking, or they just hate him that much. The only case that could be made for him being a ball hog, in my opinion, was the Houston game in which he took 44 of the Lakers 88 shots. 



> It will always be one thing or another with critics even Laker fans who repeatedly use him as a scapecoat for the team's offensive and defensive woes. *Kobe's defensive mentality has changed to his advantage not to a disadvantage. He's now able to read plays and cut them off before they even happen (we've won numerous games in the closing seconds because of that)*.


First off, it's scapegoat. And nobody is using him as that. Again, we are allowed to criticize Kobe. In his mind, he knows he's not perfect, so his fans should be able to think the same thing. Yes, he's the best basketball player on the planet, and to many, it's not even close. That doesn't mean we can't criticize him for some of the things he does. By the way, before these last couple of season, Kobe was still able to read plays and cut them off before they happened, so I don't know what you're getting at. He didn't just learn how to do that. If anything, he's now starting to read the game as a whole since he's the leader of the team and only been so for a few seasons, but on the defensive end, you can tell from the championship years that he could read plays, etc.



> So as opposed to just chasing guys looking for the miracle steal he's setting up the team for an all-around defensive shut down of the opponent.


When was the last time we had an all-around defensive shut down of a worthy opponent? 



> Now whether Smush Parker, Kwame, Bynum or any of those guys could WAKE UP DEFENSIVELY this might work. Why don't you guys start blaming the guys who don't show up to play instead of the one's who do? This Kobe blaming crap is really getting old.


I agree with you about Smush, but even then, he's barely been in the league. Kwame plays good interior defense for us, which we definitely need. And I hate criticizing Bynum because he's still a kid in the league. And who ever said we DON'T blame the other guys? Since when has this all of a sudden become ONLY about Kobe? This thread, sure, but in general, whenever we criticize the Lakers, we criticize all of them. Phil, Kobe, Lamar, Luke, etc. But with Kobe as the leader of this team, it's okay for us to expect/want a little more from him than the other guys because that's what he's paid to do.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

Bartholomew Hunt said:


> You know what this looks awfully familar to? The "Shaq is immuned to criticism" rule. Every single time his defensive effort came into question, there would be people screaming HOW DARE YOU?!?! He does EVERYTHING. Except for that other whole side of the ball thing. Not even our beloved Kobe Bryant is immuned to criticism. If he is, than that is just blatant homerism and the worshipping of one player on the team that I love is something I want no part of. What do we expect from Kobe? The same thing I expect from every player on this team. If you are capable of doing something, DO IT. Guess what. Smush Parker was an NBDL player before becoming the starting PG of the Lakers. Another words, any DECENT play that he gave us was looked upon as an asset. It would be like any sort of healthy pitching the Cubs received from Wood or Prior. What happened? Smush has shown on numerous occassions that he is a capable offensive player that can mask his limitations in the offense and a very able bodied defender. Does he come close to doing this on a consistent basis? Absolutely not. But we don't refer to the fact that he was just an NBDL player a few years ago. Smush has shown he is capable, therefore his expected to play accordingly. The same goes for Kwame. The same goes for Odom. The same goes for Sasha Vujacic and every other player on this team.
> 
> What has Kobe Bryant shown he is capable of doing? Playing great all around defense. He is shown that is capable of scoring in bunches while still playing the defense that his health allows him to. Kobe's defensive lapses come from bad judgement and lack of effort. YES, I said lack of effort. The same problem that the rest of this team suffers from. I become increasingly frustrated when fans immediately brush off anything even remotely resembling criticism towards Kobe as being "unnappreciative, or singling our star out". This is not even close to the case. We have ripped every other player on this team a new one on a near weekly basis. On the same token, we bow before Kobe's great accomplishments and constantly goto bat against irrational haters on NBA General and sometimes even this forum. He carries us. But that does not mean he is exempt from improvement.


:clap: :clap: :clap:


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## King Sancho Fantastic (Jul 19, 2005)

Bartholomew Hunt said:


> You know what this looks awfully familar to? The "Shaq is immuned to criticism" rule. Every single time his defensive effort came into question, there would be people screaming HOW DARE YOU?!?! He does EVERYTHING. Except for that other whole side of the ball thing. Not even our beloved Kobe Bryant is immuned to criticism. If he is, than that is just blatant homerism and the worshipping of one player on the team that I love is something I want no part of. What do we expect from Kobe? The same thing I expect from every player on this team. If you are capable of doing something, DO IT. Guess what. Smush Parker was an NBDL player before becoming the starting PG of the Lakers. Another words, any DECENT play that he gave us was looked upon as an asset. It would be like any sort of healthy pitching the Cubs received from Wood or Prior. What happened? Smush has shown on numerous occassions that he is a capable offensive player that can mask his limitations in the offense and a very able bodied defender. Does he come close to doing this on a consistent basis? Absolutely not. But we don't refer to the fact that he was just an NBDL player a few years ago. Smush has shown he is capable, therefore his expected to play accordingly. The same goes for Kwame. The same goes for Odom. The same goes for Sasha Vujacic and every other player on this team.
> 
> What has Kobe Bryant shown he is capable of doing? Playing great all around defense. He is shown that is capable of scoring in bunches while still playing the defense that his health allows him to. Kobe's defensive lapses come from bad judgement and lack of effort. YES, I said lack of effort. The same problem that the rest of this team suffers from. I become increasingly frustrated when fans immediately brush off anything even remotely resembling criticism towards Kobe as being "unnappreciative, or singling our star out". This is not even close to the case. We have ripped every other player on this team a new one on a near weekly basis. On the same token, we bow before Kobe's great accomplishments and constantly goto bat against irrational haters on NBA General and sometimes even this forum. He carries us. But that does not mean he is exempt from improvement.


You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Bartholomew Hunt again.


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## koberules24 (Nov 12, 2006)

Basel57 said:


> Kobe was guarding him as well throughout the game...and what about the game against Milwaukee when Michael Redd went off on us? Who was guarding him?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Jesus Christ! How much crap did you write? You guys just sound ridiculous now. I wonder what you guys will say if you wake up one day and Kobe can't take the bull**** anymore and leaves. Count your blessings.


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## Pinball (Aug 3, 2002)

koberules24 said:


> Jesus Christ! How much crap did you write? You guys just sound ridiculous now. I wonder what you guys will say if you wake up one day and Kobe can't take the bull**** anymore and leaves. Count your blessings.


You think that everything you see has never been seen before, never been done before. You think that something new is automatically better because it's new. Kobe Bryant is a great player. A phenomenal player. Not the best player in team history but among the best. However, this is a proud franchise. There have been players as good as Kobe before, even better. There have been teams as good as the 2000-2001 Lakers before, even better. You say Shaq, I counter with Kareem. You say Kobe, I counter with West and Baylor. You argue who is the best player in franchise history among them, I say who the **** is better than Magic and Wilt? Nobody. I didn't start following basketball until the mid-late 80s but I eat up the old stuff. I watch video clips, see every profile on TV, read random press clippings, and listen to the descriptions by the old timers. That is my way of educating myself. I started watching the Lakers when they were really good but then I suffered through the 90s. Do you remember the 90s? Remember the ****ty coaches like Rnady Pfund? Remember when Sedale Threat was our best player? When "Pig" Miller was a key player off our bench? Magic was gone. So was Worthy. So was Kareem. But I stuck around because I love the team. I love the franchise. Players come and go but the Lakers are going to stay in Los Angeles and I am going to continue to root for them. I love Kobe and hope he stays but he's not infallible. He makes mistakes, plays like ****, takes plays off, etc...He's no different than any other superstar. If he decides to force his way out of LA, it will sadden me but I will not follow him. The Lakers will be fine. We were fine after Mikan. Fine after West, Baylor, and Wilt. Fine after Magic, Kareem, and Worthy. Fine after Shaq. You can be a fanboy and follow your favorite player to the Hawks or Bobcats but we'll be fine.

<font color="red">Watch the insults..</font>


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## Bartholomew Hunt (Mar 4, 2003)

Don't make us lock this one too. Keep the discussion, ditch the insults.


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

Pinball said:


> You think that everything you see has never been seen before, never been done before. You think that something new is automatically better because it's new. Kobe Bryant is a great player. A phenomenal player. Not the best player in team history but among the best. However, this is a proud franchise. There have been players as good as Kobe before, even better. There have been teams as good as the 2000-2001 Lakers before, even better. You say Shaq, I counter with Kareem. You say Kobe, I counter with West and Baylor. You argue who is the best player in franchise history among them, I say who the **** is better than Magic and Wilt? Nobody. I didn't start following basketball until the mid-late 80s but I eat up the old stuff. I watch video clips, see every profile on TV, read random press clippings, and listen to the descriptions by the old timers. That is my way of educating myself. I started watching the Lakers when they were really good but then I suffered through the 90s. Do you remember the 90s? Remember the ****ty coaches like Rnady Pfund? Remember when Sedale Threat was our best player? When "Pig" Miller was a key player off our bench? Magic was gone. So was Worthy. So was Kareem. But I stuck around because I love the team. I love the franchise. Players come and go but the Lakers are going to stay in Los Angeles and I am going to continue to root for them. I love Kobe and hope he stays but he's not infallible. He makes mistakes, plays like ****, takes plays off, etc...He's no different than any other superstar. If he decides to force his way out of LA, it will sadden me but I will not follow him. The Lakers will be fine. We were fine after Mikan. Fine after West, Baylor, and Wilt. Fine after Magic, Kareem, and Worthy. Fine after Shaq. You can be a fanboy and follow your favorite player to the Hawks or Bobcats but we'll be fine.


:clap:


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

Pinball said:


> You think that everything you see has never been seen before, never been done before. You think that something new is automatically better because it's new. Kobe Bryant is a great player. A phenomenal player. Not the best player in team history but among the best. However, this is a proud franchise. There have been players as good as Kobe before, even better. There have been teams as good as the 2000-2001 Lakers before, even better. You say Shaq, I counter with Kareem. You say Kobe, I counter with West and Baylor. You argue who is the best player in franchise history among them, I say who the **** is better than Magic and Wilt? Nobody. I didn't start following basketball until the mid-late 80s but I eat up the old stuff. I watch video clips, see every profile on TV, read random press clippings, and listen to the descriptions by the old timers. That is my way of educating myself. I started watching the Lakers when they were really good but then I suffered through the 90s. Do you remember the 90s? Remember the ****ty coaches like Rnady Pfund? Remember when Sedale Threat was our best player? When "Pig" Miller was a key player off our bench? Magic was gone. So was Worthy. So was Kareem. But I stuck around because I love the team. I love the franchise. Players come and go but the Lakers are going to stay in Los Angeles and I am going to continue to root for them. I love Kobe and hope he stays but he's not infallible. He makes mistakes, plays like ****, takes plays off, etc...He's no different than any other superstar. If he decides to force his way out of LA, it will sadden me but I will not follow him. The Lakers will be fine. We were fine after Mikan. Fine after West, Baylor, and Wilt. Fine after Magic, Kareem, and Worthy. Fine after Shaq. You can be a fanboy and follow your favorite player to the Hawks or Bobcats but we'll be fine.
> 
> <font color="red">Watch the insults..</font>


Repped, sir.


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## compsciguy78 (Dec 16, 2002)

This is why Kobe should become more of a facilitator. 
He could save more energy on the offensive end. Use him in the post like they did Magic. 
This will give him more energy on the defensive end.

I agree that Kobe can't do everything. Nobody is going to score 50+ and play lockdown defense on a consistent basis.


Kobe needs to rely on team concept more to elevate the Lakers. If he sacrifices his own point production and takes a facilitator role the team would benefit on the defensive end. Its a tricky concept but it works. You get other players involved touching the ball they play better defense.


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