# Trade talk



## Utherhimo (Feb 20, 2005)

nothing solid just talk but they think travis will be trade but its a wait and see, said he is having trouble learning the system and Nene's name came up.


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## RedHot&Rolling (Jun 26, 2004)

Link? or speculation?


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## QRICH (Feb 2, 2004)

According to Rice, it was from a Denver newspaper Blog. Hour-1 just ended, and he was talking about Outlaw/Ratliff going to Denver is some kind of Nene package. 


Imo, it's just pure speculation.


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## ebott (Jan 7, 2003)

*Random dribble from Mike Rice*

What Rice really said was that "if" they decided to trade a small forward the most likely guy was Travis Outlaw. Which he based specifically off the idea that he hasn't learned the plays yet and Nate said, in a completely unrelated conversation, he doesn't wanna play a guy that doesn't know the plays.

Rice didn't even have a specific rumor. He was kind of leaning toward a Theo and Travis for Nene deal but that's nowhere close to working cap wise and there's nobody on Denver's side to even out the money.


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## Utherhimo (Feb 20, 2005)

QRICH said:


> According to Rice, it was from a Denver newspaper Blog. Hour-1 just ended, and he was talking about Outlaw/Ratliff going to Denver is some kind of Nene package.
> 
> 
> Imo, it's just pure speculation.


 yeah thats why i said it was just talk

nene what be good for us?


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## Utherhimo (Feb 20, 2005)

travis outlaw is what denver wanted for nene


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

*Re: Random dribble from Mike Rice*



ebott said:


> What Rice really said was that "if" they decided to trade a small forward the most likely guy was Travis Outlaw. Which he based specifically off the idea that he hasn't learned the plays yet and Nate said, in a completely unrelated conversation, he doesn't wanna play a guy that doesn't know the plays.
> 
> Rice didn't even have a specific rumor. He was kind of leaning toward a Theo and Travis for Nene deal but that's nowhere close to working cap wise and there's nobody on Denver's side to even out the money.


#'s don't match up. Nene doens't make enough to trade both Theo and Travis, and Travis makes 1/3rd the salary Nene does, so we'd have to include players not tradeable until december..and then we'd have a time crunch issue with the PF/C spot.


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## Utherhimo (Feb 20, 2005)

*Re: Random dribble from Mike Rice*

mike said there were other players involved


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## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

Regardless of whether or not Outlaw for Nene works capwise (it doesn't,) you'd have to be clinically insane to not do this deal if you're the Blazers.

Outlaw is a nice dunker with an average outside shot...that's all he's shown so far. 

Nene has proven he can score, defend and rebound in the NBA, he's close to 7' tall and he's only 2 years older than Outlawl. He's a stud. All due respect to Przybilla, Nene'd probably be our best center if he was on our roster.

With the SF's we have on our roster, adding a skilled bigman like Nene would be a great move to make. 

And Nene is better than Al Jefferson.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

Fork said:


> Regardless of whether or not Outlaw for Nene works capwise (it doesn't,) you'd have to be clinically insane to not do this deal if you're the Blazers.
> 
> Outlaw is a nice dunker with an average outside shot...that's all he's shown so far.
> 
> ...


you know, insert the names Jermaine O'neal and Dale Davis, and I think we have a history lesson on our hands.


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## Xericx (Oct 29, 2004)

Hap said:


> you know, insert the names Jermaine O'neal and Dale Davis, and I think we have a history lesson on our hands.


Word. Don't do it!


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## Blazer Freak (Jul 11, 2004)

I'd only do it if we got some kind of pick back as well..maybe Lenard?

Ratliff
Outlaw

for 

Nene
Lenard
pick

I think Nene is gonna be a FA soon, maybe a S&T?


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## SheedSoNasty (Dec 31, 2002)

Hap said:


> you know, insert the names Jermaine O'neal and Dale Davis, and I think we have a history lesson on our hands.


I'm not one to discuss Travis Outlaw trades seeing as how I think he'll be a great player some day, but don't you think that this trade would be helluva lot different that the JO for DD trade? 

If this happened, we'd be trading a very young prospect with a lot of potential for a very young prospect who has yet to reach his full potential. Totally different than trading O'Neal for someone who was almost 10 years his elder and on the downside of his career..


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## furball (Jul 25, 2004)

Time will tell, but you can't compare Dale Davis and Nene'. Nene' is a more complete player. But Nene' is also not a Center. Denver found out that last year. No way Denver does this trade. I have to say, Outlaw looked like a rookie again on Sunday. He was lost. I thought he and Monia were the two worst players on the floor. Major disappointment after the end of last year and the summer league. That said, I wouldn't trade him unless you got a high draft pick. I am really gun shy about trading a young, raw talented player. Maybe he would be a candidate for the D-league if he is eligible.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

furball said:


> Time will tell, but you can't compare Dale Davis and Nene'. Nene' is a more complete player. But Nene' is also not a Center. Denver found out that last year. No way Denver does this trade. I have to say, Outlaw looked like a rookie again on Sunday. He was lost. I thought he and Monia were the two worst players on the floor. Major disappointment after the end of last year and the summer league. That said, I wouldn't trade him unless you got a high draft pick. I am really gun shy about trading a young, raw talented player. Maybe he would be a candidate for the D-league if he is eligible.



For starters, comparing circumstances behind a trade does not mean I'm saying the players are the same.

Also, everyone not named telfair, joel and martell looked like bad sunday. Maybe Viktor looked good too.

Secondly, I think we fans need to learn a little more paitence...Monia barely speaks english. confidence plays a HUGE part in ones game. Let's let these guys grow a _ little _ more first.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

SheedSoNasty said:


> I'm not one to discuss Travis Outlaw trades seeing as how I think he'll be a great player some day, but don't you think that this trade would be helluva lot different that the JO for DD trade?
> 
> If this happened, we'd be trading a very young prospect with a lot of potential for a very young prospect who has yet to reach his full potential. Totally different than trading O'Neal for someone who was almost 10 years his elder and on the downside of his career..


again, comparing the kind of trade that was made (let's trade travis now because he looks lost...ooh look, someone's grass looks greener!) does not mean Im saying the players involved are the exact same.

I just think maybe we should actually see Travis play a game or two before we all jump off the bandwagon.


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## SheedSoNasty (Dec 31, 2002)

Hap said:


> again, comparing the kind of trade that was made (let's trade travis now because he looks lost...ooh look, someone's grass looks greener!) does not mean Im saying the players involved are the exact same.
> 
> I just think maybe we should actually see Travis play a game or two before we all jump off the bandwagon.


Gotcha.


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## QRICH (Feb 2, 2004)

I don't think a TO/Nene trade is a comparable to a DD/JO trade. Nene is only 2 years older than Travis, while Dale was nearly 10 years older than JO. 

But I really hope we don't trade Outlaw. The basis of Wheeler and Rice's argument of trading Travis is he hasn't learned all the plays. He's only 20! ...I think trading him would turn out to be a big mistake. 

However, Nene would be a great addition! I think he would flourish under Nate. He's 6'11", long (7'5" wingspan) and aggressive. Does anyone know what his contract looks like (would we own bird rights?). He would be nice insurance if we lose Przy to the F.A. market.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

QRICH said:


> I don't think a TO/Nene trade is a comparable to a DD/JO trade. Nene is only 2 years older than Travis, while Dale was nearly 10 years older than JO.


for the *3rd* time..making a comparison to a trade scenario does not mean the particular players are dealing with the same criteria.



> But I really hope we don't trade Outlaw. The basis of Wheeler and Rice's argument of trading Travis is he hasn't learned all the plays. He's only 20! ...I think trading him would turn out to be a big mistake.
> 
> However, Nene would be a great addition! I think he would flourish under Nate. He's 6'11", long (7'5" wingspan) and aggressive. Does anyone know what his contract looks like (would we own bird rights?). He would be nice insurance if we lose Przy to the F.A. market.


I think trading for Nene cements the teams belief that Joel is as good as gone.


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## Tince (Jul 11, 2004)

Hap said:


> you know, insert the names Jermaine O'neal and Dale Davis, and I think we have a history lesson on our hands.


 As a GM, you would be stupid to let a trade made by Bob Whitsitt five years ago have any impact on who you trade. Trading away potential talent to get proven talent can be a very good idea. Nene isn't exactly an old guy and could play both the 4 and 5, and it would clear up our mess at SF and give us backup PF. 

I'm not saying the trade is great, but to say we shouldn't do it because of JO doesn't make any sense.


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## QRICH (Feb 2, 2004)

Hap said:


> for the *3rd* time..making a comparison to a trade scenario does not mean the particular players are dealing with the same criteria.
> 
> 
> 
> I think trading for Nene cements the teams belief that Joel is as good as gone.



That may be true. We gotta be realistic, if Przy plays like he did last season (maybe even better?) I don't think there is a way we could re-sign him. Trading for Nene would be a smart move imo.


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## Trader Ed (Jun 17, 2002)

If they trade Outlaw I am gonna :hurl:

All this is extreme trade speculation..... its not even a published rumor. Only someone's blog entry, and seperate and unrelated blurbs from CSMN

move on.. there is nothing to see here


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

Tince said:


> As a GM, you would be stupid to let a trade made by Bob Whitsitt five years ago have any impact on who you trade. Trading away potential talent to get proven talent can be a very good idea. Nene isn't exactly an old guy and could play both the 4 and 5, and it would clear up our mess at SF and give us backup PF.
> 
> I'm not saying the trade is great, but to say we shouldn't do it because of JO doesn't make any sense.


but for a "proven talent", he'll cause a couple problems of his own. He'll want more minutes than he'll get as the backup PF..and he realistically can't be the 3rd backup C (because logically, Theo won't be traded with Travis for Nene. Too many Nugget players would have to be included). 

And if he IS traded for Theo, that makes our backup PF or C spot just as thin as it is now.


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## SheedSoNasty (Dec 31, 2002)

Hap said:


> for the *3rd* time..making a comparison to a trade scenario does not mean the particular players are dealing with the same criteria.


It kind of does because if we had traded JO for someone of comparable skill and age, none of this would have ever mattered. In this case, trading Outlaw for someone like Nene is a much sounder deal and may end up being in our best interest.

Plus, 3 posters have come up with the same interpretation. Don't take it personal, but the example just doesn't seem to fit.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

QRICH said:


> I don't think a TO/Nene trade is a comparable to a DD/JO trade. Nene is only 2 years older than Travis, while Dale was nearly 10 years older than JO.


Absolutely. This is a critical fact.

I like Outlaw a lot, but I'd be MORE than happy to go with Nenê at the 5 and Miles/Viktor at the 3 into the future.

I think a deal like this would really balance out our roster, although I don't see Denver doing it and the "filler" would be potentially vital to the fairness of the deal.

Ed O.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

SheedSoNasty said:


> It kind of does because if we had traded JO for someone of comparable skill and age, none of this would have ever mattered. In this case, trading Outlaw for someone like Nene is a much sounder deal and may end up being in our best interest.
> 
> Plus, 3 posters have come up with the same interpretation. Don't take it personal, but the example just doesn't seem to fit.


ugh..guys, look back at the scenario Fork laid out.



> Regardless of whether or not Outlaw for Nene works capwise (it doesn't,) you'd have to be clinically insane to not do this deal if you're the Blazers.
> 
> Outlaw is a nice dunker with an average outside shot...that's all he's shown so far.
> 
> ...


He is saying that Outlaw hasn't show much so far (neither did Jermaine)..

Nene has "proven" something (so did Dale)..

he's taller and older..(altho Dale wasn't a stud).

Dale was supposed to help us defend Shaq (jermaine couldn't)..Nene would be our "best centre" if on the roster, Travis hasn't show anything..

for the love of people guys...I didn't say that the circumstances surrounding the players abilities and ages was the same, but the rationale FOR trading him was the same.

Faulty.


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

What if Nene is the Jermain O'neil?


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

Hap said:


> for the love of people guys...I didn't say that the circumstances surrounding the players abilities and ages was the same, but the rationale FOR trading him was the same.
> 
> Faulty.


That's a bad comparison you're making, though, because the primary reason Portland got burned isn't because of WHY they traded, but instead what they got: they got a guy who was coming off an all-star season at age 30. Is it a surprise that he didn't maintain his high level of play? Of course not.

Nenê just turned 23. His best days, like Outlaw, are almost certainly ahead of him.

A further reason for Portland to do the deal, which Fork stated but doesn't fit into your comparison at all, is trading for more size. Nenê is capable of playing the center spot, while Outlaw is limited to the 3 and perhaps the 2. With the Jermaine-Dale deal, Davis was more of a center than Jermaine but there was not clear upgrade in size.

Ed .


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## QRICH (Feb 2, 2004)

Does anyone know of the Denver Blog Rice is talking about?


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

Ed O said:


> That's a bad comparison you're making, though, because the primary reason Portland got burned isn't because of WHY they traded, but instead what they got: they got a guy who was coming off an all-star season at age 30. Is it a surprise that he didn't maintain his high level of play? Of course not.


why was jermaine considered tradeable? because he wasn't showing anything outside of in practices.

why are we fans (fork in particular) thinking that we should trade outlaw? because he hasn't "shown anything" so far, and had a so-so training camp.



> Nenê just turned 23. His best days, like Outlaw, are almost certainly ahead of him.
> 
> A further reason for Portland to do the deal, which Fork stated but doesn't fit into your comparison at all, is trading for more size. Nenê is capable of playing the center spot, while Outlaw is limited to the 3 and perhaps the 2. With the Jermaine-Dale deal, Davis was more of a center than Jermaine but there was not clear upgrade in size.
> 
> Ed .



since denver is over the cap (as we are) and travis's contract doens't match Nene's, and trading theo + travis for nene + players they realistically won't trade/don't have to trade...talking about this trade (in either people missunderstanding what I was actually saying or just saying we should do it because nene walks on water) seems pointless.

Why give up on a player after a bad week+? All the glowing reports from the summer leagues, and after 1 week we're basically pissing on him. Now, if it turns out he actually is a dunce, that's one thing..but somehow this reeks of "whats hot this week" among fans.


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## HOWIE (Dec 30, 2002)

Is there anything to go on with the filler? I was looking at the Portland/Denver rosters and I don't see how this deal could go down where I wouldn't loose my lunch. Wasn't Kiki in love with Daruis Miles and wanted him? That was before he signed his new contract wasn't it? I would love to land Nene, but I don't want to give up on Outlaw as I think in a few season he is going to shine bigtime.

Yes, I wan't my cake and eat it too..............I would not be all that excited to loose Outlaw, but it would make our roster look a bit more rounded out. Isn't there a unspoken rule you don't trade a big for a small? I just don't get it. :nonono:


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

HOWIE said:


> Is there anything to go on with the filler? I was looking at the Portland/Denver rosters and I don't see how this deal could go down where I wouldn't loose my lunch. Wasn't Kiki in love with Daruis Miles and wanted him? That was before he signed his new contract wasn't it? I would love to land Nene, but I don't want to give up on Outlaw as I think in a few season he is going to shine bigtime.
> 
> Yes, I wan't my cake and eat it too..............I would not be all that excited to loose Outlaw, but it would make our roster look a bit more rounded out. Isn't there a unspoken rule you don't trade a big for a small? I just don't get it. :nonono:


One way that a Nene/Portland trade works IS with Darius. Nene + something (don't feel like looking) for Darius + future considerations would work. Sure, some people think that Darius will "mature" under Nate, but I personally don't buy it. I'm not saying Travis will be a sure fire thing, but I think he has a better head on his shoulders, despite the recent (as of today) dump on travis by media and the show tonite.

it's like wrestling..if you watch enough of it, you can start to see when they're "turning" the fans against a wrestler. 

Well, it seems that they're just preparing us to accept trading Travis. Afterall, he's not learning plays (therefore, he must just be a super athletic dork) and Darius will be a changed man under McMillan..

well, I for one don't buy it.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

Hap said:


> why was jermaine considered tradeable? because he wasn't showing anything outside of in practices.
> 
> why are we fans (fork in particular) thinking that we should trade outlaw? because he hasn't "shown anything" so far, and had a so-so training camp.


I can't speak for Fork, but I didn't get that sense from him at all... it's certainly not why I would be willing to trade Outlaw. I would be willing to trade him simply because a trade for Hilario would make us better now and well into the future given our roster.



> since denver is over the cap (as we are) and travis's contract doens't match Nene's, and trading theo + travis for nene + players they realistically won't trade/don't have to trade...talking about this trade (in either people missunderstanding what I was actually saying or just saying we should do it because nene walks on water) seems pointless.


If you want to argue that it's pointless, that's an entirely different point. If you feel that way, I'd suggest you let the people who WANT to discuss it do so and you go read another thread.

But of COURSE there are ways to set up a trade between the two teams that seem fair. Here's one right off the top of my head:

Nenê + a future pick

for

Outlaw + Przybilla

Joel's gone after this year. Nene is a guy we can re-sign at the end of the year. He can be plugged right into the starting lineup in place of Joel.

I'm sure there are lots more that work, too.



> Why give up on a player after a bad week+? All the glowing reports from the summer leagues, and after 1 week we're basically pissing on him. Now, if it turns out he actually is a dunce, that's one thing..but somehow this reeks of "whats hot this week" among fans.


It doesn't seem that way at all to me. But it's curious that you seem utterly unwilling to trade any players on the current roster... I hate to break it to you, but some of these guys are going to be gone eventually.

Ed O.


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## ProudBFan (Apr 29, 2003)

Hap said:


> I think trading for Nene cements the teams belief that Joel is as good as gone.


Doesn't Nene become a FA after this season as well? What if trading for him is actually a maneuver designed to free up cap space to use in re-signing Joel?

PBF


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

Ed O said:


> I can't speak for Fork, but I didn't get that sense from him at all... it's certainly not why I would be willing to trade Outlaw. I would be willing to trade him simply because a trade for Hilario would make us better now and well into the future given our roster.





> Regardless of whether or not Outlaw for Nene works capwise (it doesn't,) you'd have to be clinically insane to not do this deal if you're the Blazers.
> 
> Outlaw is a nice dunker with an average outside shot...that's all he's shown so far.


maybe I'm just stupid, but when someone says the team would have to be insane not to do the deal because "thats all he's shown so far" (that he's a nice dunker with an average outside shot)...it to me says "hey, he hasn't show anything so far, let's dump him for a shiney new apple".



> If you want to argue that it's pointless, that's an entirely different point. If you feel that way, I'd suggest you let the people who WANT to discuss it do so and you go read another thread.
> 
> But of COURSE there are ways to set up a trade between the two teams that seem fair. Here's one right off the top of my head:
> 
> ...


why do you always make such hair-brained comments like that ed? like I'm always in agreeance with the team, or "utterly unwilling to trade any players on the current roster"..

where I have ever ****ing said I'm unwilling to trade players? Hell, if MB had read the whole email I wrote, you would've heard me say I'd rather trade Darius and Ruben. Hell, I'm not opposed to trading  anyone if the price is right. But when the price isn't realistically attainable, or a lateral move, it's stupid.

hell, trade darius (hm..that sounds willing)...trade ruben (Oh no!)..hell, I'd trade Travis for a lot of players, but not if it makes no sense in my eyes. I just don't see Nene as the golden boy as some do (nor do I see travis as that too).


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## ThatBlazerGuy (May 1, 2003)

I say trade Travis for Nene if we can. Good god. We would still have Miles, Viktor and Patterson. I think the Blazer board significantly underrated Viktor. IMO, he is going to be a better pro than Outlaw. He just has the confidence, IQ and willingness to do the little things that make him stand out. 

Nene is a terrific prospect. He doesnt blind you with numbers, but he plays good D and is as versatile as a big, somewhat lumbering center can be.


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## Chalupa (Jul 20, 2005)

I couldn't find the blog on The Denver Post or Rocky Mountain News so no idea what the source is.

I watched Nene quite a bit the last two years (being out by Denver) and the guy has a ton of talent.
Very athletic, very good man on man defender and some good post moves. From a talent stand point a straight up Nene/Outlaw trade would be fair. I would pull the trigger if management feels Zach will never be back to his old self or maybe if they feel they have no chance at resigning Prizbilla.
To back that up the team would have to be willing to sign him to a big contract next summer to keep Nene.

There is still a lot that doesn't make sense.
Why is Denver interested in Outlaw? 
They are set at the three with Carmelo and Outlaw is will not bring the 3pt shooting they need at the 2. Maybe the Nuggets just don't plan on paying Nene and are just trying to get value for him.

It’s hard to make the trade work financially without bringing in a third team.

With all that said I hope the Blazers keep this team together for a few months a let performance, attitude, and effort decide who needs to be shipped out.


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## ProudBFan (Apr 29, 2003)

It would probably make me physically ill if the Blazers traded any of these guys:

Sebastian Telfair
Jarrett Jack
Martell Webster
Viktor Khryapa
Darius Miles
Travis Outlaw
Joel Przybilla
Zach Randolph

That said, if they can improve the team (and I'm talking OBVIOUS improvement, here) by trading any of 'em - both short and long-term - then I can live with the temporary discomfort.

PBF


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## ProudBFan (Apr 29, 2003)

ThatBlazerGuy said:


> I say trade Travis for Nene if we can. Good god. We would still have Miles, Viktor and Patterson. I think the Blazer board significantly underrated Viktor. IMO, he is going to be a better pro than Outlaw. He just has the confidence, IQ and willingness to do the little things that make him stand out.


I see a lot of young Scottie Pippen in Viktor.

Join my fan-club.



PBF


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

ProudBFan said:


> It would probably make me physically ill if the Blazers traded any of these guys:
> 
> Sebastian Telfair
> Jarrett Jack
> ...


despite ed's ramblings, the only player on that list I'd be upset if they traded is telfair. The rest tho, would have to be an obviously improvement as you said. 

Cept for Jack, I don't really care one way or the other with him. I just don't believe in giving up on players as quick as others do. 4-5 years? Yah, thats generally a good sign of how a player is. 2 years of minimal playing time and 1 difficult training camp where he's taking longer to learn the system than others? Nope.


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## furball (Jul 25, 2004)

Hap said:


> For starters, comparing circumstances behind a trade does not mean I'm saying the players are the same.
> 
> Also, everyone not named telfair, joel and martell looked like bad sunday. Maybe Viktor looked good too.
> 
> Secondly, I think we fans need to learn a little more paitence...Monia barely speaks english. confidence plays a HUGE part in ones game. Let's let these guys grow a _ little _ more first.


Monia does speak Russian and did not play a major role for CSKA this season. I don't want to hear that they didn't play him cause' he was leaving this year. He also didn't start for the Russian national team at the worlds. I'm not sure what you have seen in Monia to have a high opinion of him, because I've seen just about every game that has been available in the states, and I just don't see it. Kryhapa is a different story. I do have patience with Outlaw because I have seen him perform on the highest stage. And if you watched the game Sunday, you would also have known Ha, Miles and Clancy also played a decent game.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

furball said:


> Monia does speak Russian and did not play a major role for CSKA this season. I don't want to hear that they didn't play him cause' he was leaving this year. He also didn't start for the Russian national team at the worlds. I'm not sure what you have seen in Monia to have a high opinion of him, because I've seen just about every game that has been available in the states, and I just don't see it. Kryhapa is a different story. I do have patience with Outlaw because I have seen him perform on the highest stage. And if you watched the game Sunday, you would also have known Ha, Miles and Clancy also played a decent game.


Well, mostly because Monia is cheap, and a good role player that probably won't garner much in a trade.

and we shouldn't give up on a player just because they've struggled to start their first training camp.

jesus people..quit giving up on players so quick. Give guys a chance to actually play in the NBA (either period, or on a regular basis) before we condemn them.

paitence grasshoppas.


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## ThatBlazerGuy (May 1, 2003)

Theo and Outlaw for Lenard(Expiring), Najera(2 yrs left), Nene and a pick?

PG- Bassy/Blake/Jack
SG- Webster/Dixon/Monia
SF- Miles/Viktor/Patterson
PF- Zach/Najera/Patterson
C- Joel/Nene/Ha

Loosing Outlaw would suck, but that roster is much more balanced than our current one. I would rather send Najera to a 3rd party for a guy whos contract expires in a year less than Najera does. That way the different player, Patterson and DA would all expire on the same year, giving us some cap room.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

ThatBlazerGuy said:


> Theo and Outlaw for Lenard(Expiring), Najera(2 yrs left), Nene and a pick?
> 
> PG- Bassy/Blake/Jack
> SG- Webster/Dixon/Monia
> ...


on what planet is that roster more "balanced" than our current one?

we have a useless backup PF in Najera, whereas we could use Viktor or Ruben now.

advantage? Now.

The only "advantage" is that we'd have Nene over Theo, which is cheaper and younger (and better offensively, but sub-par on blocking).

But we'd have a worse backup PF situation.

I'd rather have, if we "had" to get Nene, a lineup of this (which I doubt, just like OUtlaw, that the Nuggets would do it):

Telfair, Jarrett, Blake
Webster, Smith, Dixon
Patterson, Outlaw, Monia
Zach, Theo, Viktor
Joel, Nene, Ha ha.

And even then, it's not likely that the trade #'s would work with Darius going to Denver..or Theo and Travis either. Because with Theo and Travis would cost the nuggets about 8+ million more in contracts (they're over the cap) and they really don't have the players to do that with, unless they ship off like 3 or 4 more and we waive them all.

Now, ed's version of Joel and Outlaw (I think?) is a little different. Nene isn't a good rebounder or shot blocker. Joel averages more blocks (by far) and rebounds (by about 5 per 48) than Nene.

The potential of Joel and Travis (which would work, cap wise I believe..or come close) to me, out weighs the potential of Nene.

If there was a way to trade Theo for Nene, I'd do that. But in the world were the sky is blue, that tainta happening.


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## Nightfly (Sep 24, 2002)

Miles and Outlaw aren't going anywhere.


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## Hype #9 (Feb 14, 2004)

You guys are making a mountain out of nothing. There are no trade "rumors".

Rice just mentioned and suggested the effect of Outlaw for Nene. There is no trade talk guys.


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

Hype #9 said:


> You guys are making a mountain out of nothing. There are no trade "rumors".
> 
> Rice just mentioned and suggested the effect of Outlaw for Nene. There is no trade talk guys.


sure there is... there always is, thats what GMs do. We're just never privy to anything but the rumor scraps that usually have nothing to do with whats really being bounced around. 

I like both Nene and Outlaw and their respective potencials. Since Nene could fill a major need of Portland's and Travis plays the most crowded spot on the roster, I'd be for a swap. 

Here's a favorite photo of a 17 year old Nene... besides the massive wingspan I'm amazed how his hands dwarf the ball.

STOMP


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## Hype #9 (Feb 14, 2004)

STOMP said:


> sure there is... there always is, thats what GMs do. We're just never privy to anything but the rumor scraps that usually have nothing to do with whats really being bounced around.
> 
> I like both Nene and Outlaw and their respective potencials. Since Nene could fill a major need of Portland's and Travis plays the most crowded spot on the roster, I'd be for a swap.
> 
> STOMP


Well yes, there's always "talk" among GMs... but to the effect of what is being discussed here. There is no Outlaw for Nene talk is what I meant.

IMO, I would hang onto Outlaw regardless. He's only 20 and preseason hasn't even started yet.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

What I don't understand is why people would be more hesitant to trade Miles who is 25 and played in the league 5 years and hasn't showed anything except for the possibility of someday becoming a good player, but doesn't have any desire to do so and has a track record of arguing with his coaches. Compared to Outlaw who just turned 21, has played only 2 years in the league has shown that he wants to improve and has the mindset that it takes to improve and never had any problems with the coaches and has just as much or maybe more potential than Miles....

It just seems like a no brainer to me...We have the perfect young nucleus to grow into a solid contender here (Telfair, Webster, Outlaw, Khraphya and possibly Randolph) and Miles isn't a part of that...


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

Schilly said:


> What if Nene is the Jermain O'neil?


 Word.


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## The Sebastian Express (Mar 3, 2005)

Darius just turned 24, not 25. On Sunday.


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## Tince (Jul 11, 2004)

zagsfan20 said:


> What I don't understand is why people would be more hesitant to trade Miles who is 25 and played in the league 5 years and hasn't showed anything except for the possibility of someday becoming a good player, but doesn't have any desire to do so and has a track record of arguing with his coaches. Compared to Outlaw who just turned 21, has played only 2 years in the league has shown that he wants to improve and has the mindset that it takes to improve and never had any problems with the coaches and has just as much or maybe more potential than Miles....
> 
> It just seems like a no brainer to me...We have the perfect young nucleus to grow into a solid contender here (Telfair, Webster, Outlaw, Khraphya and possibly Randolph) and Miles isn't a part of that...


 To answer your question in simple terms. Miles has shown he can dominate an entire game against NBA starters. While Miles play has been hot and cold in regular season games, Outlaw's play was hot and cold against summer league players.

I love Outlaw, and I have hopes he'll turn into something great for us. However, I'd have no problem trading him for young, proven talent.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

zagsfan20 said:


> What I don't understand is why people would be more hesitant to trade Miles who is 25 and played in the league 5 years and hasn't showed anything except for the possibility of someday becoming a good player, but doesn't have any desire to do so and has a track record of arguing with his coaches. Compared to Outlaw who just turned 21, has played only 2 years in the league has shown that he wants to improve and has the mindset that it takes to improve and never had any problems with the coaches and has just as much or maybe more potential than Miles....


One possible reasons is because Miles is a WAY better player right now. He demonstrated that he's able to score 40 points in an NBA game last year, while Outlaw hasn't showed that he is capable of playing 40 minutes.

I like Outlaw, and I'm not a massive Miles fan, but moving a prospect like Outlaw is something I might prefer to trading Miles.

Ed O.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

Hap said:


> maybe I'm just stupid, but when someone says the team would have to be insane not to do the deal because "thats all he's shown so far" (that he's a nice dunker with an average outside shot)...it to me says "hey, he hasn't show anything so far, let's dump him for a shiney new apple".


I don't think you're stupid, but maybe you're not reading his whole post. You quoted just PART of what he posted and you're attributing a "because" in there.

Again, Fork can certainly explain what he means. But I'm not reading it the same way you are.



> why do you always make such hair-brained comments like that ed? like I'm always in agreeance with the team, or "utterly unwilling to trade any players on the current roster"..


First of all, I doubt that I "always" make such comments.

Secondly, quite often when someone mentions a trade idea or proposal, you seem to bend over backwards to defend why the Blazers shouldn't do it. When someone criticises a lack of moves, you dismiss the criticism as just us fans not knowing our asses from our elbows.



> where I have ever ****ing said I'm unwilling to trade players? Hell, if MB had read the whole email I wrote, you would've heard me say I'd rather trade Darius and Ruben. Hell, I'm not opposed to trading anyone if the price is right. But when the price isn't realistically attainable, or a lateral move, it's stupid.


You think that getting Nene is a "lateral move"? If that's the case, then I don't know what to say.

By adding such caveats as "isn't realistically attainable" or "not a lateral move" and then you are quite willing to label any move unrealistic or any player that's attainable as a lateral move, it kind of undercuts the whole, "I'm willing to trade anyone" angle.



> hell, trade darius (hm..that sounds willing)...trade ruben (Oh no!)..hell, I'd trade Travis for a lot of players, but not if it makes no sense in my eyes. I just don't see Nene as the golden boy as some do (nor do I see travis as that too).


OK. 

Ed O.


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## Utherhimo (Feb 20, 2005)

well wow this thread took off after i fell asleep  

the trade was theo for nene mainly if we could play that off wouldnt nene be jo?  

If we could get a hold of Nene in a sign and trade and still hold on to joel the team would be pretty well off.

telfair blake jack 
smith webster dixon monia
miles viktor outlaw rubin 
zbo nene viktor 
joel nene theo ha nedzad 

now if we trade theo and say dixon or jack (not too sold on jack yet the ankle has me worried) for nene and filler. Joel walks which I would hate to see but seem very much likely just wonder who we could get for him?

Telfair Blake Jack
smith Webster Monia
Miles Viktor Outlaw rubin
zbo nene viktor 
Joel nene HA nedzad

now if Joel play hot best he ever has that will make him a hot commodity in the league and since that we wont be able to keep him (hope we could but...) how could be get if we include rubin in a 2 for 1? Preferibly a center or pf/c maybe hit up the hawks agian but i dont know so it could be like this.

telfair blake jack
webster smith monia
miles viktor oiutlaw
zbo nene (new player)
Nene or (new player) ha and/or we could bring in nedzad 

we would be losing all of our "veterans" which I am not sure if thats a good idea but if we get a studd like a KG (teehee) without the attitude then I am all for it. I would be sad if outlaw was traded


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## Iwatas (Aug 3, 2003)

Ed O said:


> Joel's gone after this year. Nene is a guy we can re-sign at the end of the year. He can be plugged right into the starting lineup in place of Joel.
> Ed O.


I don't think this is accurate. Only a few teams will have room to offer Joel more than the MLE, and they are either dreadful, cheap, or don't need a center. So there is a 50% chance, IMMHO, that we'll get Joel on a one-year deal for the big payday the following year.

I like this trade. Travis is not going to be Michael Jordan, and we have lots of SFs. As good as Travis *might* be, a solid big man is a known commodity and would round the team out nicely. As Joel is showing, a young center has a LOT of upside, and it is not uncommon for teams to give up on them too early.

I see NO PROBLEM having both Nene and Joel on the same team. No center, given the NBA pace, is a 40 minute-a-game wonder. And we COULD use a solid PF to backup Zach and in case of injuries. Between those two positions, there are 90 minutes a game. In the Whitsitt years, we did VERY well with 3 big men at the two spots. Why on earth wouldn't it work well?

iWatas


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## mook (Dec 31, 2002)

I think a more valid comparison of Outlaw for Nene might be the Tyson Chadler for Elton Brand deal. Elton (Nene) has proven that he's a legit player in this league, a proven workhorse (although clearly not yet on Brand's level). Chandler (Outlaw) has that shiny new appeal of a gifted athlete without much track record but probably higher upside. All four players are still pretty young. 

anyway, it's hard to say who will be the better prospect long-term of the two. I like Outlaw, but we don't have any decent injury-free big men sewn up long-term right now, and we have half a dozen guys who can play at SF. 

it's so close that I'll let the intangibles decide. it takes some serious nads to say "I don't have a last name anymore." trade for Nene.


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## Talkhard (May 13, 2003)

Don't know if this trade rumor is real or not, but there's one part of this story I like very much. That is the fact that McMillan is actually teaching the team to run "plays," which Travis may or may not be having trouble learning. I like the idea that we may actually have a somewhat complicated offensive scheme this year, rather than just freelancing like most recent Blazer teams have done. 

Look at the Bulls under Phil Jackson. They had the triangle offense (also difficult to learn), but it was a system that the players eventually thrived under. And it could be counted on to get them points in the fourth quarter. Look at Jerry Sloan's Utah teams. They always ran real plays, with great precision, and they also knew how to get points in the fourth quarter.

X's and O's, baby!! That's real coaching, and that's what wins ball games.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

Ed O said:


> Secondly, quite often when someone mentions a trade idea or proposal, you seem to bend over backwards to defend why the Blazers shouldn't do it. When someone criticises a lack of moves, you dismiss the criticism as just us fans not knowing our asses from our elbows.


cause in most cases, the trades that are offered show that people don't know their barfos from their vomits.


> You think that getting Nene is a "lateral move"? If that's the case, then I don't know what to say.
> 
> By adding such caveats as "isn't realistically attainable" or "not a lateral move" and then you are quite willing to label any move unrealistic or any player that's attainable as a lateral move, it kind of undercuts the whole, "I'm willing to trade anyone" angle.


Nene is a poor rebounder, and doesn't block shots that well (he's worse than Joel in both, and worse than Theo in blocked shots). While he's a prettier "gem" than outlaw is, you yourself have made the argument that scoring points in a game does not a better player make. Willie Burton went nuts once..

IF Darius can prove he's a 15-18 ppg player PER night, than trading Outlaw doesn't seem that bad. But I doubt that Darius will BE a 15-18 ppg player.

I emailed MB, and he basically said they were throwing things against a wall, and seeing if it stuck. So we're basically going on a 60 post thread about a (in essence) made up rumor. Curse you mike rice!


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## Foulzilla (Jan 11, 2005)

Hap said:


> I emailed MB, and he basically said they were throwing things against a wall, and seeing if it stuck. So we're basically going on a 60 post thread about a (in essence) made up rumor. Curse you mike rice!


Isn't that always the case? Rumors are the most fun!

Anyways, my opinion is that this is a trade you have to strongly consider. I like Outlaw, but he has shown me nothing that says he'll ever be better then Darius (I think he can be, but I've seen no proof that he _definitley_ will be). Nene is at least a comparable prospect, and in a position we need. I personally would try and determine what our chances of keeping Joel are, and if we decide we cannot keep him I'd lean towards doing this trade (presuming Nene displayed an interest in re-signing with us after his contract is up of course). I would much much rather keep Outlaw and find another way to make the deal. 

On a side note, Camby and Ratliff on the same team? I guess you might be able to keep at least one of them off the injured list for most the season... maybe. :biggrin:


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## hasoos (Jan 3, 2003)

LOL! Mike Rice Got you all! Man I am glad I woke up late or he would have got me too. :clown:


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

Foulzilla said:


> Isn't that always the case? Rumors are the most fun!
> 
> Anyways, my opinion is that this is a trade you have to strongly consider. I like Outlaw, but he has shown me nothing that says he'll ever be better then Darius (I think he can be, but I've seen no proof that he _definitley_ will be). Nene is at least a comparable prospect, and in a position we need. I personally would try and determine what our chances of keeping Joel are, and if we decide we cannot keep him I'd lean towards doing this trade (presuming Nene displayed an interest in re-signing with us after his contract is up of course). I would much much rather keep Outlaw and find another way to make the deal.
> 
> On a side note, Camby and Ratliff on the same team? I guess you might be able to keep at least one of them off the injured list for most the season... maybe. :biggrin:


If Travis can't show us he's better than a perrenial 12 ppg scorer (at the most so far)..well, I'd be for the trade too.


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## mook (Dec 31, 2002)

hasoos said:


> LOL! Mike Rice Got you all! Man I am glad I woke up late or he would have got me too. :clown:


hey, it may be a completely fabricated idea, but it's not a bad one. there's not much to talk about until tomorrow night, so what the heck.


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

As much as I love Travis' game if they were to move Travis for Nene and the deal be reasonable, then I have to say do it, for multiple reasons.

#1 We need a big..now, and if he can play either 4 or 5 that is the best case scenario. Can share a lot of the minutes at the 4, plus if Theo's shoulder doesn't hold up can play the 5 plenty of time to go around there.

#2 We can't sit tight and wait to see if we can keep Joel. If Joel goes then we have Nene at the 5 with Zach, if Joel Stays we can look to move Nene via S&T or move Zach. Gives us Flexibility

#3 We absolutely need to clear some room at the 3. One of the guys will need to go, and Frnakly for backup Minutes I think VIktor is the guy I'd rather have, not because I don't like Travis, but because of the little things VIktor does

To me....

SF Miles/Khyrapa
PF Zach/ Nene
C Joel/Nene

is much better than

SF Miles/Travis/Viktor
PF Zach/Viktor/Miles/Travis/Ruben
C Joel/Theo

Helps us now helps us later.


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## RedHot&Rolling (Jun 26, 2004)

OK - my turn.

Although this is not a rumor, or perspective trade with NO LINK - I want to chime in.

Trading principles Outlaw for Nene should be a no-brainer for Portland fans. Size matters in this case. Imagine next off-season if Joel leaves for greener pastures. We are left with a frontcourt of Theo, Zbo and maybe Clancy.

It would be foolish for Nash NOT to be looking for ways to trade one or more of our SF's for a big. Theo isn't going to stay at the current level of play beyond the next season or two. I also not believe he is going to improve.

Nene would solidify our frontcourt. Outlaw might become a suido-star in the league. 

I doubt Nene for Outlaw happens from Denvers standpoint. They don't need Outlaw.


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## cpt.napalm (Feb 23, 2005)

Now lets see if we could swindle PHX into dealing Amare now that he is damaged goods. Outlaw, Ratliff, Miles? I will go try and figure a trade that works.


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## ThatBlazerGuy (May 1, 2003)

no. amare will not be dealt. lol.


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## cpt.napalm (Feb 23, 2005)

ThatBlazerGuy said:


> no. amare will not be dealt. lol.


 If we went this many posts about a rumor why can't I start a perfectly good one myself?


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## Foulzilla (Jan 11, 2005)

cpt.napalm said:


> If we went this many posts about a rumor why can't I start a perfectly good one myself?


A lot of people said the other rumor will never happen either.


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

cpt.napalm said:


> If we went this many posts about a rumor why can't I start a perfectly good one myself?


Maybe becaue the other was at least hinted at by Rice on Courtside?


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## ThatBlazerGuy (May 1, 2003)

Maby because Amare is

A) Injured
B) A top 10 player in the NBA
C) The cornerstone of the PHX fanchise
D) Young and improving


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## Utherhimo (Feb 20, 2005)

I am sure nash has been calling a few teams seeking a pf or pf/c, I say there will be a trade between the 5th game of the preseason and the 6th game of the season.


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## cpt.napalm (Feb 23, 2005)

ThatBlazerGuy said:


> Maby because Amare is
> 
> A) Injured
> B) A top 10 player in the NBA
> ...


A) Injured (that is why we can get him on the cheap [relative term])
B) A top 10 player in the NBA (But is he right now)
C) The cornerstone of the PHX fanchise (Can be had for the right price)
D) Young and improving (was young and improving but can he return to that?)


This leaves PHX with their buns in the breeze. Not having Amare will make Nash's numbers go down. I think Marion's might increase a little but overall PHX is hosed Tommy. He is a top 10 player but there is a question to see if he can return in the same form. He is an athlete that uses his gifts to create, without his leaping ability where is he? Randolph returned in the same shape ( as far as we can tell ) and Amare might too. But I think that for the right offer PHX might move him. They are a team that is getting older and Nash, Grant, Thomas, and Marion all are getting up there They have a pretty good team and their chances for a run are limited. I know that there is a 1% of him moving and this is all a load of speculation or BS take your pick, but there are still a few hours until the season starts can't we what if for a little while longer?


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## chromekilla (Aug 21, 2005)

well blazers would have to be 100% sure that joel will sign and do good this and more seasons to trade theo and to.
nash has specifically said were not tradeing theo because wed be to thin i the c position.
unless the trade is nene lenard and a pick i wouldnt do it.
i dont want history to be repeated.
i want to see the players play 10-15 games before we trade someone.


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## Oldmangrouch (Feb 11, 2003)

While this rumor may be hooey, it does raise a troubling point. 

This training camp was a golden opportunity for Outlaw: a new coach, a rebuilding team where pretty much every job was up for grabs, and the momentum of the promise he showed late last season. The fact that he didn't "seize the day" is disturbing. That isn't just being impatient, it is the way life works. Ya snooze, ya lose!

Maybe he just isn't a good fit for Nate's system.......or maybe the fault is his. I really hope the kid can turn it around - but I am less optimistic about his future then I used to be.


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## BBert (Dec 30, 2004)

I'm a fish out of water in these trade scenarios, but according to HoopsHype, Theo makes $11,666,666 this year...and the next...and the next (god that's a huge contract). Nene only makes $3,064,916. Denver doesn't have a lot of big ugly contracts to trade. If we sent Theo, Denver would have to send Nene plus Camby, or send half their bench. Theo isn't going anywhere.

According to HoopsHype, Travis only makes $901,800. Add Joel's $1,760,000, that comes to $2,661,800. 115% of that is $3,061,070. This matches Nene's salary within $100,000. We could also throw in Monya if my numbers are wrong.

If it's clear to management that we can't resign Joel, and if Travis doesn't fit with Nate (and we are overloaded at SF), is this a bad deal? I'd love to have Nene, but at the expense of two of my favorite young Blazers makes it tough. And we'd still be left with the over paid, injury prone Theo. 

I'd rather trade Ruben, or Dixon/Blake/Smith (in December). Is there any reason Denver would want any of them in a package for Travis?


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

Blazer Bert said:


> I'm a fish out of water in these trade scenarios, but according to HoopsHype, Theo makes $11,666,666 this year...and the next...and the next (god that's a huge contract). Nene only makes $3,064,916. Denver doesn't have a lot of big ugly contracts to trade. If we sent Theo, Denver would have to send Nene plus Camby, or send half their bench. Theo isn't going anywhere.
> 
> According to HoopsHype, Travis only makes $901,800. Add Joel's $1,760,000, that comes to $2,661,800. 115% of that is $3,061,070. This matches Nene's salary within $100,000. We could also throw in Monya if my numbers are wrong.
> 
> ...


Pretty good, though its with in 25% plus the 100,000 in the CBA


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## Utherhimo (Feb 20, 2005)

nene has another hamstring injury


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