# Top 30 Poll.



## KeiranHalcyon (Nov 27, 2003)

As mentioned in a thread earlier, some people want to make a poll deciding BBB.net's top 30 current players. I'm willing to handle this.

Starting at midnight, list your top thirty players on this thread. Let's not start any arguments, just list them.

Players in the top five will be First tier; 6-15 will be second tier; 16-30, second tier.

The placing will be awarded by total points. I have a long weekend coming up, so I can do all the math then.

Points will be awarded as follows:

First tier:
1: 60 pts.
2: 55 pts.
3: 50 pts.
4: 45 pts.
5: 40 pts.

Second Tier:
6: 36 pts.
7: 34 pts.
8: 32 pts.
9: 30 pts.
10: 28 pts.
11: 26 pts.
12: 24 pts.
13: 22 pts.
14: 20 pts
15: 18 pts.

Third Tier:
16: 15 pts.
17: 14 pts.
18: 13 pts.
19: 12 pts.
20: 11 pts.
21: 10 pts.
22: 9 pts.
23: 8 pts.
24: 7 pts.
25: 6 pts.
26: 5 pts.
27: 4 pts.
28: 3 pts.
29: 2 pts.
30: 1 pts.

Let the fun begin!!!


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## Kmasonbx (Apr 7, 2003)

I think your scale is slanted too much, I just think it should be reverse scoring from 1-30, 30 points for 1st, down to 1 point for 30


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## KeiranHalcyon (Nov 27, 2003)

By that theory, aren't the scales for the all-NBA teams slanted too much? 5 for first team, 3 for second, one for third.

Here's my logic.

Size of the tiers: Five in the first--the top group should be the smallest, and five is about the perfect size for this--the elite of the superstars. The second tier is ten, about twice the size of the first group, also reasonably sized--the superstars. The third tier is the largest, the stars. Rounding out the top 30.

I could've made it three tiers of ten, but I don't think that fits as well.

As far as the ranking goes, I considered doing just a straight 1-30, but there should be something setting the higher ones apart from the lower tiers.

There's a tier system because these should be slanted. That's why there's an increase in the amount that sets them apart. I think the grading system should be as I set it.

If popular opinion disagrees, I'll change it.


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## Tersk (Apr 9, 2004)

1 Kevin Garnett
2 . Tim Duncan
3 - Shaq
4 - Tmac
5 - Kobe
6 - Kidd
7 - JO
8 - Dirk
9 - Peja
10 - AI
11 - Marbury
12 - Cassell
13 - Baron Davis
14 - Yao
15 - PaulPierce
16 - Nash
17 - LeBron
18 - Vince
19 - Kmart
20 - Redd
21 - AK47
22 - Lamar Odom
23 Elton Brand
24 - Amare
25 -Carmello
26 - Randolph
27 - Webber
28 - Jefferson
29 - Boozer
30 - Arenas

Did i forget any1?


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## Rockstone (Jan 21, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>KeiranHalcyon</b>!
> Starting at midnight, list your top thirty players on this thread. Let's not start any arguments, just list them.


You're too early theo


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## Tersk (Apr 9, 2004)

*Re: Re: Top 30 Poll.*



> Originally posted by <b>Rockstone</b>!
> 
> 
> You're too early theo


whats the time over there?
lol my badd


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## Rockstone (Jan 21, 2004)

*Re: Re: Re: Top 30 Poll.*



> Originally posted by <b>theo4002</b>!
> 
> 
> whats the time over there?
> lol my badd


NO, NO, NO. It's my bad. I didn't realize you were on the other side of the world. In that case, your'e late.


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## Tersk (Apr 9, 2004)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Top 30 Poll.*



> Originally posted by <b>Rockstone</b>!
> 
> 
> NO, NO, NO. It's my bad. I didn't realize you were on the other side of the world. In that case, your'e late.



hehehe, im 11hours late then:O :no:


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## CP26 (May 8, 2003)

> Did i forget any1?


Arenas is way better than Billups


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## Shanghai Kid (Mar 7, 2003)

Arenas is better than Wade also.

People seem to forget that Arenas is a 20/5/5 player at the age of 22.


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## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

how could you forget to include ray allen?


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## jamalcrawford01 (Feb 25, 2004)

k-mart


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## KeiranHalcyon (Nov 27, 2003)

"Let's not start any arguments, just list them."


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## Johnny Mac (May 6, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>KeiranHalcyon</b>!
> "Let's not start any arguments, just list them."


You said not until midnight.


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## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>KeiranHalcyon</b>!
> "Let's not start any arguments, just list them."


i'm not starting an argument. at the end of his post he asked if he forgot anyone, so i thought i'd mention that he forgot ray allen, who is unequivocally a top 30 player.


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## Tersk (Apr 9, 2004)

Can a mod delete my post.. i screwed it up..considering how many ppl i missed cheers


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## KeiranHalcyon (Nov 27, 2003)

Just post a new copy--I'll only use the revised list.


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## Tersk (Apr 9, 2004)

1 - KG
2 - Tim Duncan
3 - Shaq
4 - TMac
5 - Kobe
6 - Kidd
7 - Jermaine
8 - Dirk
9 - Peja
10 - Marbury
11 - Baron Davis
12 - Zach Randolph
13 - Elton Brand
14 - AI
15 - Yao
16 - LeBron
17 - AK47
18 - Amare
19 - Ray Allen
20 - Pierce
21 - Cassell
22 - Webber
23 - Nash
24 - Lamar Odom
25 - Carmello
26 - Vince
27 - Redd
28 - BWalace
29 - Artest
30 - Marion


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>KeiranHalcyon</b>!
> 
> As far as the ranking goes, I considered doing just a straight 1-30, but there should be something setting the higher ones apart from the lower tiers.


Why should there be "something setting the higher" tiers "apart from the lower tiers?"

That's saying that the difference between being the 15th and 16th best player is a wider gulf than the difference between being the 14th and 15th best player. Why is that the case?

Also, why should #1 be separated from from #10 by *32 points* while #11 is separated from #30 by *25 points*? There's a 9 player from from 1 to 10, but a 19 player from from 11 to 30, yet that 19 player drop is worth many fewer points than the 9 player drop.

It doesn't seem very logical.


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## Tersk (Apr 9, 2004)

^^ I agree with smarty.. This should be the system. 30 points for number 1, 29 for number two and 1 point for number 30..you know what I mean


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## KeiranHalcyon (Nov 27, 2003)

Originally posted by John The Cool Kid!
1. Tim Duncan
2. Kevin Garnett

3. Shaquille Oneal

4. Tracy McGrady
5. Kobe Bryant


Originally posted by Minstrel:
"I agree with this, except I wouldn't put a divider between O'Neal and McGrady/Bryant, not since O'Neal has been declining. O'Neal is more impactful, still, but not in a different class altogether.

My 6-10:

6. Dirk Nowitzki
7. Stephon Marbury
8. Jermaine O'Neal
9. Ray Allen
10. Peja Stojakovic"

Seems to me that you approve of different tiers there...?


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## Johnny Mac (May 6, 2003)

Assuming all players are completely healthy. 

1. Tim Duncan
2. Kevin Garnett
3. Shaquille Oneal
4. Tracy McGrady
5. Kobe Bryant
6. Jermaine Oneal
7. Elton Brand
8. Jason Kidd
9. Dirk Nowitski
10. Peja Stojakovic
11. Baron Davis
12. Paul Pierce
13. Lamar Odom
14. Ray Allen
15. Sam Cassell
16. Andrei Kirilenko
17. Rasheed Wallace
18. Vince Carter
19. Stephon Marbury 
20. Chris Webber
21. Allen Iverson
22. Zach Randolph
23. Yao Ming
24. Ron Artest
25. Carmelo Anthony
26. Amare Stoudemire
27. Lebron James
28. Ben Wallace
29. Michael Redd
30. Marcus Camby


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

I will do this for right now, end of the season and for the devellopment that should be expected until the start of next season since a lot of these guys have finished this season.

Since the original post didn't say rank the top 30 for the 2003/2004 season I assumed it would be right now. Meaning as much as if they play in their next game.

1. Tim Duncan
2. Kevin Garnett
3. Kobe Bryant
4. Shaquille O'Neal
5. Tracy McGrady
6. Lebron James
7. Amare Stoudemire
8. Yao Ming
9. Jermaine O'Neal
10. Jason Kidd
11. Elton Brand
12. Dirk Nowitzki
13. Paul Pierce
14. Allen Iverson
15. Peja Stojakovic
16. Carmelo Anthony
17. Stephon Marbury
18. Baron Davis
19. Chris Webber
20. Zach Randolph
21. Shawn Marion
22. Lamar Odom
23. Sam Cassell
24. Andrei Kirilenko
25. Ray Allen
26. Ron Artest
27. Michael Redd
28. Ben Wallace
29. Steve Nash
30. Pau Gasol

HOM Richard Jefferson, Kenyon Martin, Michael Finley, Mike Bibby, Rashard Lewis. Those would be my next 5.
Followed by guys like Arenas, Francis, Boozer, Magloire, Johnson, Richardson, Camby, Sprewell, Houston, Terry, Magette, Z, Wade, Rasheed...


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## MarioChalmers (Mar 26, 2004)

I'll list it, no arguments please, I'll try doing the best I can, I remember listing my top 30 in my English notebook I think...

Found it!

Top 30:

1.) Kevin Garnett
2.) Tim Duncan
3.) Shaquille O'neal
4.) Kobe Bryant
5.) Tracy McGrady
6.) Jason Kidd
7.) Stephon Marbury
8.) Andrei Kirilenko
9.) Elton Brand
10.)Jermaine O'neal
11.)Amare Stoudemire
12.)Paul Pierce
13.)Yao Ming
14.)Dirk Nowitzki
15.)LeBron james
16.)Ray Allen
17.)Baron Davis
18.)Peja Stojakovic
19.)Ben Wallace
20.)Michael Redd
21.)Chris Webber
22.)Ron Artest
23.)Pau Gasol
24.)Vince Carter
25.)Allen Iverson
26.)Steve Nash
27.)Sam Cassell
28.)Lamar Odom
29.)Carmelo Anthony
30.)Shawn Marion

HOM: Dwyane Wade my favorite player


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>KeiranHalcyon</b>!
> 
> Originally posted by Minstrel:
> "I agree with this, except I wouldn't put a divider between O'Neal and McGrady/Bryant, not since O'Neal has been declining. O'Neal is more impactful, still, but not in a different class altogether.
> ...


In that case, they were more like mini-tiers...they weren't really supposed to mean a lot, just micro-analysis, and I could probably find about 20 of those "mini-tiers" in 30 players. I wouldn't tilt a point scale so heavily based on those mini-tiers though.


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## nmuman (Nov 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>theo4002</b>!
> 1 Kevin Garnett
> 2 . Tim Duncan
> 3 - Shaq
> ...


Ben Wallace, he just made 2nd team All-NBA


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## Nevus (Jun 3, 2003)

What about Rasheed? Is Rasheed top 30?


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## Johnny Mac (May 6, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Nevus</b>!
> What about Rasheed? Is Rasheed top 30?


err, I edited him in.


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

I thought no discussion?

Rasheed Wallace at #17? :laugh: 
He is definately not top 30 anymore.


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## Johnny Mac (May 6, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> Rasheed Wallace at #17? :laugh:
> He is definately not top 30 anymore.


Amare at 7 :laugh:


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

Yeah and I have Lebron at #6 and Yao at #8.

You have Yao at #23, Amare at #25 and Lebron at #28.


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## Johnny Mac (May 6, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> Yeah and I have Lebron at #6 and Yao at #8.
> 
> You have Yao at #23, Amare at #25 and Lebron at #28.


You have exceptional observation skills.


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## Tersk (Apr 9, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>John The Cool Kid</b>!
> 
> 
> You have exceptional observation skills.


ahahaha..but seriously amare at 7? he aint top 15..but ill b quiet bcoz no arguments


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>John The Cool Kid</b>!
> 
> 
> You have exceptional observation skills.


You too because you obviously didn't read the introduction to my top 30 list.

Even if Amare didn't improve in the offseason and only repeated what he did after the allstar game. 24.5ppg 10.0rpg 1.8apg 1.6bpg 1.2spg should put him comfortably in the top10.


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

My Top 30:

1.Kobe Bryant
2.Tim Duncan
3.Kevin Garnett
4.Shaquille O´Neal
5.Tracy McGrady
6.Jason Kidd
7.Predrag Stojakovic
8.Stephon Marbury
9.Dirk Nowitszki
10Jermaine O´Neal
11.Paul Pierce
12.Baron Davis
13.Ray Allen
14.Yao Ming
15.Andrei Kirilenko
16.Allen Iverson
17.Chris Webber
18.Shawn Marion
19.Elton Brand
20.Ron Artest
21.Michael Redd
22.Amare Stoudemire
23.Zach Randolph
24.Vince Carter
25.Sam Cassell
26.Lebron James
27.Steve Nash
28.Kenyon Martin
29.Lamar Odom
30.Ben Wallace


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## Marcus13 (Jul 17, 2002)

1. Kevin Garnett
2. Kobe Bryant
3. Tim Duncan
4. Tracy McGrady
5. Shaquille O'Neal
6. Jermaine O'Neal
7. Jason Kidd
8. Ray Allen
9. Paul Pierce
10. Chris Webber
11. Vince Carter
12. Dirk Nowitzki
13. Elton Brand
14. Allen Iverson
15. Chris Webber
16. Stephon Marbury
17. Baron Davis
18. Yao Ming
19. Lebron James
20. Carmelo Anthony
21. Amare Stoudamire
22. Andre Kirilenko
23. Dwyane Wade
24. Lamar Odom
25. Kenyon Martin
26. Steve Francis
27. Michael Redd
28. Pau Gasol
29. Sam Cassell
30. Peja Stojacovic


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## Fatboy (Mar 7, 2003)

1. Tim Duncan
2. Kevin Garnett
3. Shaquille O'Neal
4. Kobe Bryant
5. Tracy McGrady
6. Jermaine O'Neal
7. Peja Stojacovic
8. Jason Kidd
9. Dirk Nowitzki 
10. Yao Ming
11. Stephon Marbury
12. Elton Brand
13. Andre Kirilenko
14. Paul Pierce
15. Sam Cassell
16. Ray Allen
17. Vince Carter
18. Lebron James
19. Baron Davis
20. Ben Wallace
21. Lamar Odom
22. Pau Gasol
23. Carlos Boozer
24. Michael Redd
25. Allen Iverson
26. Randolph
27. Ron Artest
28. Marion
29. Nash
30. Carmello


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## MLKG (Aug 25, 2003)

1. Kevin Garnett
2. Tim Duncan
3. Shaquile O'Neal
4. Kobe Bryant
5. Tracy McGrady
6. Jermaine O'Neal
7. Dirk Nowitski
8. Jason Kidd
9. Peja Stojakovic
10. Elton Brand
11. Allen Iverson
12. Ben Wallace
13. Yao Ming
14. Michael Redd
15. Ron Artest
16. Chris Webber
17. Steve Nash
18. Ray Allen
19. Lebron James
20. Sam Cassell
21. Stephon Marbury
22. Paul Pierce
23. Baron Davis
24. Amare Stoudamire
25. Rasheed Wallace
26. Kenyon Martin
27. Andre Kirilenko
28. Mike Bibby
29. Shawn Marion
30. Carmelo Anthony


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## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

i'm not trying to start an argument or anything, but when this poll is finished, you'll see how underrated ray allen really is.


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## Kmasonbx (Apr 7, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> 
> 
> You too because you obviously didn't read the introduction to my top 30 list.
> ...


I think if you rank the players based on what you feel they will do next year, than Amare may be top 10, so you do have a legit argument. It's funny how people only noticed that you ranked Amare #7 but not that you put LeBron #6 despite nobody really considering him top 10 at this moment. 

Anyway here is my list as of right now:

1. Garnett
2. Duncan
3. Kobe 
4. McGrady
5. Shaq
6. Dirk 
7. Peja
8. Marbury
9. Pierce
10. Iverson
11. Jermaine O'neal
12. Kidd
13. Ben Wallace
14. Cassell
15. Brand
16. Ray Allen
17. Baron Davis
18. Kirilenko 
19. Melo
20. LeBron
21. Amare
22. Vince Carter
23. Yao
24. Francis
25. Zach Randolph
26. Webber
27. Gasol
28. Shawn Marion
29. Kenyon Martin
30. Nash
30.


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## jvanbusk (Jun 9, 2002)

1. Kevin Garnett
2. Tim Duncan
3. Shaquille O'Neal
4. Kobe Bryant
5. Jason Kidd
6. Jermaine O'Neal
7. Allen Iverson 
8. Tracy McGrady
9. Dirk Nowitzki
10. Peja Stojakovic
11. Lebron James
12. Chris Webber
13. Paul Pierce
14. Ben Wallace
15. Yao Ming
16. Ron Artest
17. Vince Carter
18. Elton Brand
19. Stephon Marbury
20. Baron Davis
21. Michael Redd
22. Sam Cassell
23. Ray Allen
24. Andrei Kirilenko
25. Amare Stoudemire
26. Steve Nash
27. Mike Bibby
28. Pau Gasol
29. Carlos Boozer
30. Carmelo Anthony


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## Ballscientist (Nov 11, 2002)

1. Tim Duncan
2. Shaquille O'Neal
3. KG
4. Tracy McGrady
5. Kobe Bryant
6. Jermaine O'Neal
7. Jason Kidd
8. Peja Stojacovic
9. Yao Ming
10. Chris Webber
11. Vince Carter
12. Dirk Nowitzki
13. Elton Brand
14. Allen Iverson
15. Karl Malone
16. Stephon Marbury
17. Baron Davis
18. Pau Gasol
19. LCarmelo Anthony
20. Lebron James
21. Amare Stoudamire
22. Andre Kirilenko
23. Dwyane Wade
24. Lamar Odom
25. Kenyon Martin
26. Steve Francis
27. Michael Redd
28. Pau Gasol
29. Sam Cassell
30. Ray Allen


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## mofo202 (Apr 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Kmasonbx</b>!
> 
> 
> 9. Pierce
> 12. Kidd


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## Shanghai Kid (Mar 7, 2003)

Dwayne Wade is a little bit overrated. He's a good rookie, but 16//4/4, I don't see how anybody can make a case that he's a top 30 player.


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## Rockstone (Jan 21, 2004)

1. Kevin Garnett
2. Tim Duncan
3. Kobe Bryant
4. Tracy McGrady
5. Shaquille O'Neal
6. Allen Iverson
7. Dirk Nowitzki
8. Paul Pierce
9. LeBron James
10. Jason Kidd
11. Chris Webber
12. Stephon Marbury
13. Carmelo Anthony
14. Jermaine O'Neal
15. Peja Stojakovic
16. Baron Davis
17. Vince Carter
18. Ray Allen
19. Amare Stoudemire
20. Shawn Marion
21. Michael Finley
22. Elton Brand
23. Sam Cassell
24. Zach Randolph
25. Andrei Kirilenko
26. Michael Redd
27. Ron Artest
28. Steve Francis
29. Lamar Odom
30. Gilbert Arenas


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## Marcus13 (Jul 17, 2002)

These are some horrible posts, Ray at 18, 19, 23, ? Jesus.
*30* These are terrible


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## RR 823 (Mar 29, 2003)

1. Kevin Garnett
2. Tim Duncan
3. Shaquille O'Neal
4. Tracy McGrady
5. Kobe Bryant
6. Jermaine O'Neal
7. Jason Kidd
8. Dirk Nowitzki
9. Peja Stojakovic
10. Allen Iverson
11. Sam Cassell
12. Ben Wallace
13. Paul Pierce
14. Elton Brand
15. Stephon Marbury 
16. Lamar Odom
17. Baron Davis
18. Ray Allen
19. Andrei Kirilenko
20. LeBron James
21. Chris Webber
22. Zach Randolph
23. Brad Miller
24. Pau Gasol
25. Yao Ming
26. Michael Redd
27. Steve Nash
28. Gilbert Arenas
29. Amare Stoudemire
30. Ron Artest


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

1. Kevin Garnett
2. Tim Duncan
3. Shaquile O'Neal
4. Kobe Bryant
5. Tracy McGrady
6. Jason Kidd
7. Dirk Nowitzki
8. Peja Stojakovic 
9. Jermaine O'Neal
10. Elton Brand
11. Allen Iverson
12. Ray Allen
13. Stephon Marbury
14. Ron Artest
15. Paul Pierce
16. Ben Wallace
17. Yao Ming
18. LeBron James 
19. Sam Cassell
20. Andrei Kirilenko
21. Amare Stoudemire
22. Baron Davis
23. Michael Redd
24. Vince Carter
25. Lamar Odom
26. Carmelo Anthony
27. Pau Gasol
28. Shawn Marion
29. Zach Randolph
30. James Posey


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## maKINGSofgreatness (Aug 17, 2003)

Marcus, Webber is on your list at 10 and 15


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## KeiranHalcyon (Nov 27, 2003)

Yeah--No matter how much you might love a particular player, you CANNOT HAVE THEM LISTED MORE THAN ONCE.

Ballscientist and Marcus 13, look at your lists and let me know how to change them.


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## The Mad Viking (Jun 12, 2003)

1 KG	
2 Duncan	
3 Kobe	
4 Tmac	
5 Kidd	
6 Shaq	
7 Elton	
8 Webber	
9 J-O	
10 Dirk	
11 Pierce	
12 Ray Allen	
13 Peja	
14 AI	
15 Yao	
16 AK47	
17 Artest	
18 Matrix	
19 Cassell	
20 Franchise	
21 Vince	
22 LeBron	
23 Marbury	
24 Amare	
25 Zack	
26 Odom	
27 Big Ben	
28 K-Mart	
29 Gasol	
30 Baron Davis


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

1. KG
2. Duncan
3. Kobe
4. Shaq
5. Kidd
6. Dirk
7. Yao
8. T-Mac
9. Pierce
10. J-O
11. Artest
12. Rashweed
13. Ben
14. Peja
15. AI
16. Brand
17. VC
18. Webber
19. Nash
20. Lebron
21. Melo
22. Baron
23. Amare
24. Kirilenko
25. Pau
26. Zach Randolf
27. Ray Allen (Yes, 27.)
28. Steve Francis
29. Redd
30. Marbury


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## Jordan23 (Apr 12, 2004)

Top 30 ballers

1.) Tim Duncan
2.) Kevin Garnett
3.) Shaquille Oneal 
4.) Tracy McGrady
5.) Jason Kidd
6.) Kobe Bryant
7.) Peja Stojakovic
8.) Allen Iverson
9.) Jermaine O'Neal
10.) Ron Artest
11.) Dirk Nowitzki
12.) Paul Pierce
13.) Ray Allen
14.) Stephon Marbury
15.) Amare Stoudemire
16.) Baron Davis
17.) Ben Wallace
18.) Chris Webber
19.) Yao Ming
20.) Carmelo Anthony
21.) Michael Redd
22.) Steve Francis
23.) Vince Carter
24.) Gilbert Arenas
25.) Lebron James
26.) Kenyon Martin
27.) Sam Cassell
28.) Lamar Odom
29.) Shawn Marion
30.) Pau Gasol


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## Marcus13 (Jul 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>KeiranHalcyon</b>!
> Yeah--No matter how much you might love a particular player, you CANNOT HAVE THEM LISTED MORE THAN ONCE.
> 
> Ballscientist and Marcus 13, look at your lists and let me know how to change them.


Slide everyone up one (Webber at ten) and put Ron Artest at 30 please


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>blowuptheraptors</b>!
> 1. KG
> 2. Duncan
> 3. Kobe
> ...


Sorry, but that's an awful list, especially the top 15 or so. Rasheed, 12? Ray Allen, 27? T-Mac behind Yao and Dirk?


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## KeiranHalcyon (Nov 27, 2003)

Ease up--this is just for posting your list, take the debates elsewhere.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>rukahS capuT</b>!
> 1. Kevin Garnett
> 2. Tim Duncan
> 3. Shaquile O'Neal
> ...


I'll be childish as well. Posey at 30? Sam Cassell at all? 

If everyone had the same opinion then W(hy)TF would anyone bother to start this thread. No top 5 player, T-Mac, lets his team lose 19 straight. I don't care if he averages 40.


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## denis (Jul 3, 2003)

> 1. Kevin Garnett
> 2. Kobe Bryant
> 3. Tim Duncan
> 4. Tracy McGrady
> ...


 :laugh: :laugh:


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## Bartholomew Hunt (Mar 4, 2003)

You're doing a nice job KeiranHalcyon. 
Hopefully I did not forget any on my list. No I am not a Pacers fan in case you are wondering.


1. Kevin Garnett
2. Tim Duncan
3. Kobe Bryant
4. Jermaine O'Neal
5. Shaquille O'Neal
6. Ron Artest
7. Peja Stojakovic
8. Jason Kidd
9. Andrei Kirilenko
10. Ray Allen
11. Sam Cassell
12. Dirk Nowitzki
13. Allen Iverson
14. Tracy McGrady
15. Stephon Marbury
16. Lamar Odom
17. Elton Brand
18. Baron Davis
19. Michael Redd
20. Kenyon Martin
21. Yao Ming
22. Vince Carter
23. Lebron James
24. Ben Wallace
25. Carmelo Anthony
26. Amare Stoudamire
27. Zac Randolph
28. Pau Gasol
29. Gilbert Arenas
30. Chris Webber


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

OMG!!! Another person who does not have T-Mac in the top 5. Lets all bash him.:grinning:


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## fsaucedo (May 3, 2003)

1) Kevin Garnett
2) Tim Duncan
3) Shaquille O'neal
4) Kobe Bryant
5) Tracy McGrady
6) Jason Kidd
7) Jermaine O'neal
8) Allen Iverson
9) Dirk Nowitzki
10)Paul Pierce
11)Peja Stojakovic
12)Elton Brand
13)Ray Allen
14)Chris Webber
15)Stephon Marbury
16)Baron Davis
17)Andrei Kirilenko
18)Ron Artest
19)Lamar Odom
20)Amare Stoudamire
21)Yao Ming
22)Sam Cassell
23)Michael Redd
24)LeBron James
25)Ben Wallace
26)Pau Gasol
27)Shawn Marion
28)Vince Carter
29)Steve Nash
30)Steve Francis


----------



## Bartholomew Hunt (Mar 4, 2003)

I try to factor in at least a little bit of "being a winner" into my rankings.


----------



## RR 823 (Mar 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>-D!</b>!
> You're doing a nice job KeiranHalcyon.
> Hopefully I did not forget any on my list. No I am not a Pacers fan in case you are wondering.
> 
> ...


Paul Pierce?


----------



## TiMVP2 (Jun 19, 2003)

1) Tim Duncan
2) Kevin Garrnet
3) Shaquille O'neal
4) Tracy McGrady
5) Kobe Bryant
6) Jermaine O'neal
7) Jason Kidd
8) Allen Iverson
9) Paul Pierce
10)Dirk Nowitzki
11)Staphon Marbury
12)Elton Brand
13)Ray Allen
14)Peja Stojakovic
15)Chris Webber
16)Ron Artest
17)Andrei Kirilenko
18)Lamar Odom
19)Ben Wallace
20)Sam Cassell
21)Amare Stoudamire
22)Yao Ming
23)Michael Redd
24)LeBron James
25)Melo Anthony
26)Steve Francis
27)Shawn Marion
28)Vince Carter
29)Pau Gasol
30)G-Arena


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## nmuman (Nov 26, 2003)

1. Kevin Garnett
2. Tim Duncan
3. Shaquile O'Neal
4. Kobe Bryant
5. Tracy McGrady
6. Ben Wallace
7. Dirk Nowitski
8. Jason Kidd
9. Peja Stojakovic
10. Ray Allen
11. Allen Iverson
12. Jermaine O'neal
13. Yao Ming
14. Michael Redd
15. Ron Artest
16. Chris Webber
17. Steve Nash
18. Elton Brand
19. Lebron James
20. Sam Cassell
21. Stephon Marbury
22. Paul Pierce
23. Baron Davis
24. Amare StoudAAAAmire
25. Rasheed Wallace
26. Kenyon Martin
27. Andre Kirilenko
28. Mike Bibby
29. Shawn Marion
30. Chauncey Billups


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

How many people can still not write Stoudemire? There is no A in Stoudemire.


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## Rollydog (Jan 24, 2004)

As of right now: 

1. Garnett
2. Duncan
3. Shaq
4. Kobe
5. Dirk
6. TMac
7. Pierce
8. AI
9. Kidd
10. Brand
11. O'Neal
12. Allen
13. Davis
14. Peja
15. Stoudamire
16. Martin
17. AK47
18. Yao
19. Cassel
20. BWallace
21. Nash
22. Artest
23. Marbury
24. Randolph
25. RWallace
26. Marion
27. Odom
28. Redd
29. Gasol
30. Jefferson


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## nmuman (Nov 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> How many people can still not write Stoudemire? There is no A in Stoudemire.


Everyone beware, the spelling police have arrived!


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## SheriffKilla (Jan 1, 2004)

1. Garnett
2. Shaq
3. Duncan
4. Kidd
5. B.Davis
6. McGrady
7. Artest
8. B.Miller
9. Nowitzki
10.Bryant
11.Carter
12.Stojacovic
13.Cassell
14.Webber
15.J.O'Neal
16.R.Wallace
17.Francis
18.R.Allen
19.Pierce
20.Kirilenko
21.Malone
22.Iverson
23.Ming
24.Marbury
25.A.Miller
26.Odom
27.Boozer
28.Brand
29.L.James
30.Abdur Rahim


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## texan (Jul 10, 2003)

1- Duncan
2- Garnett
3- Shaq
4- McGrady
5- Kobe
6- Jermaine Oneal
7- Dirk Nowitski
8- Stephon Marbury
9- ron artest
10- allen iverson
11- Jason kidd
12- baron davis
13- yao ming
14- lebron james
15- paul pierce
16- peja 
17- ray allen
18- elton brand
19- chris webber
20- ben wallace
21- rasheed wallace
22- andrei kirilenko
23- odom
24- kmart
25- vince carter
26- michael redd
27- amare stoudemire
28- richard jefferson
29- shawn marion
30a. - carmelo anthony
30b. - brad miller


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## Bartholomew Hunt (Mar 4, 2003)

Ahhh dammit. I don't think Paul Pierce is that good, but he is top 30 worthy.

Please omit Chris Webber from the list and place Pierce at #20. Move everyone else from Kenyon Martin down.


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## Rockstone (Jan 21, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>nmuman</b>!
> 
> 
> 25. *Rasheed Wallace*
> ...


:no:


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## The MAgiC (Aug 3, 2003)

1. Tim Duncan
2. Tracy McGrady
3. Kevin Garnett
4. Shaquille O'Neal
5. Peja Stojakovic
6. Jermaine O'neal
7. Dirk Nowitzki
8. Kobe Bryant
9. Allen Iverson
10. Paul Pierce
11. Jason Kidd
12. Elton Brand
13. Baron Davis
14. Yao Ming
15. Lamar Odom
16. Andrei Kirilenko
17. Stephon Marbury
18. LeBron James
19. Chris Webber
20. Sam Cassell
21. Steve Francis
22. Carmelo Anthony
24. Ron Artest
25. Gary Payton
26. Amare Stoudemire
27. Shawn Marion
28. Ben Wallace
29. Michael Redd
30. Zach Randolph


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## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>The MAgiC</b>!
> 1. Tim Duncan
> 2. Tracy McGrady
> 3. Kevin Garnett
> ...


jesus shuttlesworth.


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## nikeflightz (Apr 1, 2004)

1. timmy duncan
2. kevin garnett
3. kobe
4. t-mac
5. shaq
6. peja
7. cassell
8. dirk 
9. ray allen
10. yao ming 
11. stephon marbury
12. jason kidd 
12. zach randolph
14. elton brand
15. amare stoudamire
16. michael redd
17. baron davis
18. vince carter
19. gilbert arenas
20. paul pierce
21. lamar odom
22. lebron 
23. carmelo
24. ron artest
25. richard jefferson
26. ben wallace
27. antawn jamison
28. shareef abdul rahim
29. karl malone
30. gary payton


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## Kmasonbx (Apr 7, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>nikeflightz</b>!
> 1. timmy duncan
> 2. kevin garnett
> 3. kobe
> ...


iverson not top 30?


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## bballlife (Oct 5, 2003)

I don't know who goes 2-30, they seem constantly interchanging to me.

But Duncan is not #1 because of his poor free throw shooting, troubles passing out of double teams, and ability to stiffen up.

KG is great all around, but is negative in the clutch. Very turnover prone, can't score. Great example tonight against the Nuggets in game 4. Crapped his pants 3 times in the last few minutes. They go to Spree and Sam in the clutch.

#1 player is Kobe.


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## tpb2 (Oct 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>spriggan9</b>!
> 
> 
> jesus shuttlesworth.


:laugh:


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## panthera_pardus (Dec 29, 2003)

1) Garnett
2) Duncan
3) Shaq
4) Bryant
5) McGrady
6) J.O´Neal
7) Nowitzki
8) Cassell
9) Stojakovic
10)Kidd
11)Marbury
12)Yao
13)Stoudemire
14)Lebron
15)Allen
16)Randolph
17)Iverson
18)B.Davis
19)Pierce
20)Brand
21)Kirilenko
22)R.Wallace
23)Artest
24)Carter
25)Odom
26)Abdul-Rahim
27)Redd
28)Arenas
29)B.Wallace
30)Webber


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## Bartholomew Hunt (Mar 4, 2003)

How come no Mark Madsen?


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## Marcus13 (Jul 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>The MAgiC</b>!
> 1. Tim Duncan
> 2. Tracy McGrady
> 3. Kevin Garnett
> ...


Ray isnt even top 30? This is truly pathetic how much recognition he isnt getting


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## The Mad Viking (Jun 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>blowuptheraptors</b>!
> OMG!!! Another person who does not have T-Mac in the top 5. Lets all bash him.:grinning:


Not only that, but he has Kobe 3rd.

I think Kobe & TMac may be the two most similar players in the NBA. I went back and forth over who should be higher; its hard to explain how you could put anybody between the two, other than personal feelings or lack of knowledge... IMHO.


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## texan (Jul 10, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>bballlife</b>!
> I don't know who goes 2-30, they seem constantly interchanging to me.
> 
> But Duncan is not #1 because of his poor free throw shooting, troubles passing out of double teams, and ability to stiffen up.
> ...


you gotta be ****ten me right? kobe, the number one player? haha:laugh: and sence when has duncan had trouble passing out of a double team!? he is known for being really good at passing out of double n triple teams. as for kg, he is very clutch and just had one bad game. dont bash him for that. saying kobe is the number one player in the league is like sayen my moms black(hint:everyone in my family is white)


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## bballlife (Oct 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>texan</b>!
> 
> 
> you gotta be ****ten me right? kobe, the number one player? haha:laugh: and sence when has duncan had trouble passing out of a double team!? he is known for being really good at passing out of double n triple teams. as for kg, he is very clutch and just had one bad game. dont bash him for that. saying kobe is the number one player in the league is like sayen my moms black(hint:everyone in my family is white)



You're either a Kobe hater or *edited: No personal attacks*. I along with many NBA people rate him #1. 

I live in Minnesota, if you think KG is clutch, you're *edited*.

Watch some basketball, when Duncan is turning over the ball, its usually passing out of a double team. Its when he goes into stiff mode.


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## KeiranHalcyon (Nov 27, 2003)

Just a reminder: voting ends at midnight on Sunday--everyone post your top 30 if you want, now that it's the weekend, you've got plenty of time. 

Here's my list:

1 Garnett
2 Duncan
3 Bryant
4 O'Neal S
5 O'Neal J
6 Kidd
7 McGrady
8 Nowitzki
9 Stojakovic
10 James L
11 Davis B
12 Iverson
13 Wallace R
14 Yao
15 Odom
16 Marbury
17 Gasol
18 Brand
19Cassell
20 Redd
21 Marion
22 Allen
23 Francis
24 Boozer
25 Randolph
26 Pierce
27 Stoudemire
28 Kirilenko
29 Anthony
30 Artest


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## Ron Mexico (Feb 14, 2004)

1. Garnett
2. Marion
3. Stojakovic
4. Notwzki
5. McGrady
6. Kirilenko
7. Marshall
8. Davis
9. B.Wallace
10. Marbury
11. Pierce
12. Bryant
13. Redd
14. Terry
15. Duncan
16. Kidd
17. Finley
18. Cassell
19. Bibby
20. Lewis
21. E.Jones
22. Nash
23. Posey
24. Crawford
25. J.O'Neal
26. Allen
27. Mobley
28. Christie
29. Kittles
30. Stephen Jackson

these ratings are based on fantasy basketball I have no idea how they rate players but I know they go mostly by stats, more proof that stats don't tell the whole story


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## Bron_Melo_ROY (Apr 12, 2004)

1.	Tim Duncan
2.	Kevin Garnett
3.	Kobe Bryant
4.	Shaquille O’Neal


5.	Tracy McGrady
6.	Jason Kidd
7.	Jermaine O’Neal
8.	Baron Davis
9.	Paul Pierce
10.	LeBron James
11.	Dirk Nowitzki
12.	Shawn Marion
13.	Pedrag Stojakovic
14.	Zach Randolph
15.	Allen Iverson
16.	Elton Brand
17.	Andrei Kirilenko
18.	Stephon Marbury
19.	Vince Carter
20.	Carmelo Anthony
21.	Lamar Odom
22.	Yao Ming
23.	Steve Francis
24.	Kenyon Martin
25.	Richard Jefferson
26.	Mike Bibby
27.	Gilbert Arenas
28.	Steve Nash
29.	Ray Allen
30.	Dwayne Wade


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## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

Here's mine (nicknames only):

1) KG Da Kid
2) The Big Fundamental
3) AK-47
4) The Big Aristotle
5) T-Milk
6) Da K-O-B
7) Just Call Him "Irk" (Cause he's go no D)
8) Too Easy (B-Dizzle)
9) Ray Ray (The Chosen One)
10) Moss Man (Elton the Eliminator)(E-Brand)
11) 'Da Matrix
12) Vinsanity
13) 'Lil Stoya (Pay-Jay)
14) 'Sheed
15) Ron Ron, Ron Ron, You Know Ron Ron
16) Blaze (J-Kidd)
17) The Truth
18) Gino (E-Man)
19) Pos-ay
20) B Milla Da Shaq Killa
21) Mount Marcus
22) The Spanish Assassin (I Have Tha Pau-wer)
23) Big Ben
24) Dre
25) Theo-ooooo
26) Nene
27) Cold Blue (Mikey-Mike the Bomber)(It's Bibby!)
28) Sam I Am
29) J O
30) Sky (D-A)(Death Valley)(His Arm's Strong)


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

1. Kevin Garnett
2. Tim Duncan
3. Peja Stojakavic
4. Jermaine Oneal
5. Kobe Bryant
6. Baron Davis
7. Shaquille Oneal
8. Dirk Notwitzki
9. Jason Kidd
10. Paul Pierce
11. Elton Brand
12. Ron Artest
13. Ray Allen
14. Lebron James
15. Michael Redd
16. Stephon Marbury
17. Sam Cassell
18. Zach Randolph
19. Tracy McGrady
20. Ben Wallace
21. Yao Ming
22. Shawn Marion
23. Vince Carter
24. Amare Stoudemire
25. Mike Bibby
26. Corey Maggette
27. Carmelo Anthony
28. Pau Gasol
29. Rashard Lewis
30. Jamal Crawford


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## KeiranHalcyon (Nov 27, 2003)

About 24 hours left to post results--I should have results calculated by sometime Wednesday at the latest.

Anyone else want to post?


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## AleksandarN (Jul 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Marcus13</b>!
> 1. Kevin Garnett
> 2. Kobe Bryant
> 3. Tim Duncan
> ...


You got to be joking right? Pedja at 30. This guy was getting some love for MVP and 2nd all NBA team and you have him at 30. Alot you have around 15


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## AleksandarN (Jul 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Rockstone</b>!
> 1. Kevin Garnett
> 2. Tim Duncan
> 3. Kobe Bryant
> ...


Pedja at 15 and Ron Artest at 29 and Melo ahead them both?


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## AleksandarN (Jul 9, 2002)

1. Kevin Garnett
2. Tim Duncan
3. Peja Stojakovic
4. Kobe Bryant
5. Jermaine Oneal
6. Jason Kidd
7. Shaquille Oneal
8. Baron Davis
9. Dirk Notwitzki
10. Paul Pierce
11. Tracy McGrady
12. Ron Artest
13. Ray Allen
14. Yao Ming
15. Michael Redd
16. Stephon Marbury
17. Vince Carter
18. Zach Randolph
19. Elton Brand
20. Ben Wallace
21. Amare Stoudemire
22. Shawn Marion
23. Sam Cassell
24. Steve Nash
25. Mike Bibby
26. Corey Maggette
27. Pau Gasol
28. Rashard Lewis
29. Carmelo Anthony
30. Lebron James


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

1. Kevin Garnett
2. Tim Duncan
3. Kobe Bryant
4. Shaquile O'Neal
5. Tracy McGrady
6. Jermaine O'Neal
7. Jason Kidd
8. Peja Stojakovic
9. Dirk Nowitski
10. Ron Artest
11. Baron Davis
12. Allen Iverson
13. Ray Allen
14. Lebron James
15. Sam Cassell
16. Steve Nash
17. Lamar Odom
18. Elton Brand
19. Stephon Marbury
20. Paul Pierce
21. Amare Stoudemire
22. Chris Webber
23. Carmelo Anthony 
24. Ben Wallace
25. Yao Ming
26. Mike Bibby
27. Andre Kirilenko
28. Tony Parker
29. Pau Gasol
30. Kenyon Martin


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## Your Name Here (Nov 17, 2003)

F! ranking is ****.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Your Name Here</b>!
> F! ranking is ****.


*How about this. One more ridiculous post and your GONE. Thanks

Disrupting the board is against site policy

Beez*


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## "Matt!" (Jul 24, 2002)

1. Kevin Garnett
2. Tim Duncan
3. Shaquille O'Neal
4. Kobe Bryant
5. Jason Kidd
6. Jermaine O'Neal
7. Peja Stojakovic
8. Tracy McGrady
9. Dirk Nowitzki
10. Paul Pierce
11. Allen Iverson
12. Ray Allen
13. Stephon Marbury
14. Ben Wallace
15. Yao Ming
16. LeBron James
17. Stephon Marbury
18. Ron Artest
19. Vince Carter
20. Baron Davis
21. Steve Nash
22. Andrei Kirilenko
23. Michael Redd
24. Elton Brand
25. Lamar Odom
26. Amare Stoudemire
27. Carmelo Anthony
28. Brad Miller
29. Pau Gasol
30. Sam Cassell


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## KeiranHalcyon (Nov 27, 2003)

You have Marbury on there twice.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

1. Kevin Garnett
2. Tim Duncan
3. Shaquille O'Neal
4. Kobe Bryant
5. Jason Kidd
6. Tracy McGrady 
7. Vince Carter 
8. Jermaine O'Neal
9. Dirk Nowitzki
10. Peja Stojakovic
11. Lebron James
12. Allen Iverson 
13. Paul Pierce
14. Yao Ming 
15. Stephon Marbury
16. Ron Artest
17. Ben Wallace
18. Elton Brand
19. Rasheed Wallace
20. Baron Davis
21. Kenyon Martin
22. Shawn Marion
23. Ray Allen
24. Amare Stoudemire
25. Andrei Kirilenko
26. Steve Nash
27. Mike Bibby
28. Pau Gasol
29. Eric Dampier
30. Carmelo Anthony


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>AleksandarN</b>!
> 1. Kevin Garnett
> 2. Tim Duncan
> 3. Peja Stojakovic
> ...


:laugh: You flame other people for putting Peja so low, and you post a list like *that*? Peja, 3? T-Mac, 11?


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Golden Bull 23</b>!
> 1. Kevin Garnett
> 2. Tim Duncan
> 3. Peja Stojakavic
> ...


:nonono:

Lists with crap like that shouldn't even be counted...


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## AleksandarN (Jul 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rukahS capuT</b>!
> 
> 
> :laugh: You flame other people for putting Peja so low, and you post a list like *that*? Peja, 3? T-Mac, 11?


You see I am talking about this years not based on overall career. If I did then of course I would put TMac higher just not this year his game and team I think are not warrented Top 10 in my books.


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## "Matt!" (Jul 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>AleksandarN</b>!
> 
> 
> You see I am talking about this years not based on overall career. If I did then of course I would put TMac higher just not this year his game and team I think are not warrented Top 10 in my books.


I don't even LIKE T-Mac, but he was a top 10 player this year.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Hmmm wonders besides defense y is Artest placed higher than VC


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Hmmm wonders besides defense y is Artest placed higher than VC


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## Nlightened1 (May 3, 2004)

1. Tim Duncan
2. Jermaine O'Neal
3. Kevin Garnett
4. Tracy McGrady
5. Paul Pierce
6. Kobe Bryant
7. Jason Kidd
8. Amare Stoudemire
9. Ray Allen
10. Stephon Marbury
11. Ron Artest
12. Peja Stojakovic
13. Bobby Jackson
14. Kenyon Martin
15. Tony Parker
16. Dirk Nowitzki
17. Shaquille O'Neal
18. Sam Cassell
19. Vince Carter
20. Mike Bibby
21. Lebron James
22. Brent Barry
23. Derek Anderson
24. Michael Finley
25. Baron Davis
26. Zach Randolph
27. Hedo Turkoglu
28. Steve Nash
29. Allen Iverson
30. Elton Brand


----------



## KeiranHalcyon (Nov 27, 2003)

This poll is now closed.

I'll start calculating the results now--should be up sometime on Wednesday at the latest.

Mods, can someone lock this thread?


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## KeiranHalcyon (Nov 27, 2003)

Okay--I have the results mostly calculated.

I was off by a total of 37 points out of a possible 17205.

Just wondering if everyone is okay with me going ahead and posting what results I do have, or if I should go back and double check. I can have the results up tonight if the margin of error is acceptable, or tomorrow night if you'd like a recount.


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## KeiranHalcyon (Nov 27, 2003)

Okay--since I haven't heard back, I'll assume the margin of error is okay.

First, my thanks to everyone that participated in the poll: theo4002, JohntheCoolKid, BigAmare, Gian, PauloCatarino, Marcus13, Fatboy, MikeluvsKG, KMasonDX, jvanbusk, Ballscientist, Rockstone, Ranier823, rukahS capuT, The Mad Viking, blowuptheraptors, Jordan23, -D!, fsaucedo, TiMVP2, nmuman, Rollydog, fjkdsi, texan, The MAgiC, nikeflightz, Panthera Pardus, Sboydell, Bron_Melo_ROY, RollWithEm, GoldenBull23, AleksandarN, Celts11, Matt85153, SkywalkerAC, and Nlightened1.

Okay. And now the moment you've all been waiting for: 

The BASKETBALL BOARDS TOP THIRTY.
1) Kevin Garnett
2) Tim Duncan
3) Kobe Bryant
4) Shaquille O'Neal
5) Tracy McGrady
6) Jason Kidd
7) Dirk Nowitzki
8) Jermaine O'Neal
9) Peja Stojakovic
10) Paul Pierce
11) Allen Iverson
12) Stephon Marbury
13) Baron Davis
14) Elton Brand
15) Ray Allen
16) Yao Ming
17) Lebron James
18) Ron Artest
19) Andrei Kirilenko
20) Sam Cassell
21) Amare Stoudemire
22) Vince Carter
23) Chris Webber
24) Ben Wallace
25) Micheal Redd
26) Lamar Odom
27) Shawn Marion
28) Zach Randolph
29) Carmelo Anthony
30) Steve Nash

(Honorable Mention: R. Wallace, Gasol, Martin, Francis, Arenas, Bibby, B. Miller, Finley, Malone, Boozer.)

That gives us, in the top 30,:
-3 Centers, 9 Power Forwards, 5 Small Forwards, 8 Shooting Guards, and 5 Point Guards.
-9 from the Pacific Division, 8 from the Midwest, 7 from the Central, and 6 from the Atlantic.
-2 rookies, 2 sophomores, 2 3-year vets, 1 4-year, 5 5-year, 4 6-year, 2 7-year, 7 8-year, 1 9-year, 1 10-year, 2 11-year, and 1 12 year.

Again, thanks to all that participated, I actually enjoyed this--may even do it again next year.


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## MarioChalmers (Mar 26, 2004)

That's a very nice list with little to no errors I think, great work! You put a lot of work into it! I'm actually using this list in building my Fantasy team next year!


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## Tersk (Apr 9, 2004)

3 cheers for Keiran. I was surprised seeing ZBO and Nash so Low. Yeh Dirk, no.7. Really good job Keiran


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## Kmasonbx (Apr 7, 2003)

I'm very surprised at the huge gap between Melo and LeBron, especially with seemingly their being an even split in that debate on this board. Another thing I noticed is that there are 7 players in their 8th year in the top 30 while no other year has more than 4, which is the 96 draft, which goes to show how deep that draft was.

EDIT: and 6 of the top 15 are from that draft, I wonder if this rookie class can match that class.


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## Nevus (Jun 3, 2003)

The official list there looks pretty good... I think Rasheed should be in the top 30, but I'm happy that Steve Francis didn't make it, so it evens out...

Is Carmelo Anthony better than Rasheed?


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## KeiranHalcyon (Nov 27, 2003)

According to the poll, yes.

Melo had 168 votes--though those came from 25 people.
Sheed had 132 from 11 people.

I'll go through tomorrow sometime, maybe, and figure out the average ranking by those who voted--Rasheed recieved an average of 12, Melo an average of 6. 72 from voters.


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## Derrex (Jul 21, 2002)

> The BASKETBALL BOARDS TOP THIRTY.
> 1) Kevin Garnett
> 2) Tim Duncan
> 3) Kobe Bryant
> ...


No argument from me. Ben Wallace should be moved up though in my opinion. Hes way more valuable to Amare and Ray Allen is too high.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

Vince Carter is too low (22), especially considering that Paul Pierce made it in at #10 and Ray Allen at #15. Also don't know why so many voted for CWebb and left off Kenyon but overall it worked out quite well.


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## Johnny Mac (May 6, 2003)

Good work on doing this, although I dont agree with the list. The top 5 are on point, I'd change the order though. I'm surprised Elton Brand is as high as he is, I put him in the top 10 but usually people completely overlook him because of the team he plays on. I'm glad he got his proper respect. Lebron is too high, he should be at around 25 or so with Carmelo IMO. 

But its hard for these to be accurate. Theres too many haters and too many lovers. If you just ask people to list 30, thats giving them too much responsibility. I read some lists that put Tmac out of the top 10, Kobe out of the top 10, Duncan out of the top 5 I believe I saw. That type of voting can really throw off the accuracy because it becomes a matter of how many haters/lovers vote and not where the players actually stand according to this site. 

I think what made the all time top 30 so successful was that the players were chosen one by one. That really puts players on the spot and makes people decide whether the guy is really better than other players or deserving of that spot, etc. 

I definitely applaud the efforts though, the list is actually pretty good, just a few kinks though.


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## KeiranHalcyon (Nov 27, 2003)

Thanks to everyone that's congradulated me--you're making the work worth it.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Nlightened1</b>!
> 1. Tim Duncan
> 2. Jermaine O'Neal
> 3. Kevin Garnett
> ...


I'm not trying to be mean, but that's by far the worst list I've ever seen. I don't even know where to begin criticizing it. How about, Bobby Jackson being ahead of Shaq...Enough said.


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## Mattsanity (Jun 8, 2003)

1. Tim Duncan 
2. Kevin Garnett
3. Tracy McGrady
4. Kobe Bryant
5. Jason Kidd
6. Shaquille O'Neal
7. Dirk Nowitzki
8. Vince Carter
9. Jermaine O'Neal
10. Stephon Marbury
11. Ron Artest
12. Allen Iverson
13. Lebron James
14. Peja Stojakovic
15. Sam Cassell
16. Baron Davis 
17. Amare Stoudemire
18. Mike Bibby
19. Elton Brand
20. Zach Randolph
21. Yao Ming
22. Ben Wallace
23. Ray Allen
24. Carmelo Anthony
25. Andrei Kirilenko
26. Michael Redd
27. Lamar Odom
28. Dwayne Wade
29. Shawn Marion
30. Steve Nash


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## KeiranHalcyon (Nov 27, 2003)

Mattsanity--sorry, the poll is closed, so I won't be adding yours to the totals.

And, now that the poll is over, I can agree with you there, rukahS.

That one and Sboydell both messed up the totals, I think.

There were a total of 16 players that were only on one list--most came from those lists.

Sheesh.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

Nice work, Keiran.

The list is pretty decent for a collaborative effort and considering there were some god-awful lists.

It's not all that far off my thoughts, though I'd reorder the top five, I agree with Nevus that Rasheed Wallace should be in this list, I'd move Stephon Marbury up and Elton Brand down (sorry John the Cool Kid--but if it's any consolation, that has nothing to do with the team he's on).


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## Johnny Mac (May 6, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Minstrel</b>!
> Elton Brand down (sorry John the Cool Kid--but if it's any consolation, that has nothing to do with the team he's on).


Its fine, to each his own and I'm sure you're not the only one. I know you're among the group that believes the team you play on should have very little to do with determining the worth of one individual player, so I ask, how can Elton Brand not be a top 15 player in the league considering how efficient he is? Hes a legitimate 20 point scorer, one of the better rebounders in the league, the best offensive rebounder in the league, one of the best passers in the league for a big man, one of the top shotblockers and defenders in the league at his position. The only thing you can really hold against him is his team success. He is an animate leader, a great citizen, very loyal to his franchise, very intense on the court. You cant really knock his leadership. So what holds him back from being a top 10-15 player in your opinion? 

I've asked you this before but you didn't respond (probably didnt see it)


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## Kmasonbx (Apr 7, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>John The Cool Kid</b>!
> 
> 
> Its fine, to each his own and I'm sure you're not the only one. I know you're among the group that believes the team you play on should have very little to do with determining the worth of one individual player, so I ask, how can Elton Brand not be a top 15 player in the league considering how efficient he is? Hes a legitimate 20 point scorer, one of the better rebounders in the league, the best offensive rebounder in the league, one of the best passers in the league for a big man, one of the top shotblockers and defenders in the league at his position. The only thing you can really hold against him is his team success. He is an animate leader, a great citizen, very loyal to his franchise, very intense on the court. You cant really knock his leadership. So what holds him back from being a top 10-15 player in your opinion?
> ...


I had Brand ranked 15, but I think the thing that keeps him out of the top 10 by a lot of people is he doesn't possess a "wow factor" to his game. He doesn't blow you away with anything, he is just pretty good at most things. And when you consider the # of players in the league that have comparable production but also have that wow factor it makes it tough for some people to put Brand over them.


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## Johnny Mac (May 6, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Kmasonbx</b>!
> I had Brand ranked 15, but I think the thing that keeps him out of the top 10 by a lot of people is he doesn't possess a "wow factor" to his game. He doesn't blow you away with anything, he is just pretty good at most things. And when you consider the # of players in the league that have comparable production but also have that wow factor it makes it tough for some people to put Brand over them.


I agree. Ever since about midway through the 02-03 season, Brand has reminded me of a poor mans Tim Duncan. 

I can accept people ranking Brand in the 15-20 range because hes easy to overlook because he hasnt been on a successful team, and like you said, he doesnt wow you. I just strongly disagree with the rankings, I think his impact on the game is *easily* among the top 10 players in the league. To me, the only players in the league better right now are TD, KG, Kobe, Shaq, Tmac and Kidd, then him and JO are comparable IMO. Thats just my opinion though. 

I sincerely hope that Kobe gets paired up with Brand while their both still in their prime. Kobe would be regarded as the better player, but Brand would undoubtedly move up into most peoples top 10 since folks would take notice of the work he does and the impact he has on games. I tnink Elton Brand is the perfect Scottie Pippen type player right now, and if I was a franchise player like Kobe or Tmac or Pierce, I'd be looking to get with that guy. He wouldnt complain about playing 2nd fiddle, and his impact on games is incredible. 

I could go on forever about the guy, but I'm beginning to feel like BigAmare so I'll stop.


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## Johnny Mac (May 6, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>John The Cool Kid</b>!
> Its fine, to each his own and I'm sure you're not the only one. I know you're among the group that believes the team you play on should have very little to do with determining the worth of one individual player, so I ask, how can Elton Brand not be a top 15 player in the league considering how efficient he is? Hes a legitimate 20 point scorer, one of the better rebounders in the league, the best offensive rebounder in the league, one of the best passers in the league for a big man, one of the top shotblockers and defenders in the league at his position. The only thing you can really hold against him is his team success. He is an animate leader, a great citizen, very loyal to his franchise, very intense on the court. You cant really knock his leadership. So what holds him back from being a top 10-15 player in your opinion?
> 
> I've asked you this before but you didn't respond (probably didnt see it)


Keep this up for Minstrel, I want to see his thoughts on this.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>John The Cool Kid</b>!
> 
> 
> Its fine, to each his own and I'm sure you're not the only one. I know you're among the group that believes the team you play on should have very little to do with determining the worth of one individual player, so I ask, how can Elton Brand not be a top 15 player in the league considering how efficient he is? Hes a legitimate 20 point scorer, one of the better rebounders in the league, the best offensive rebounder in the league, one of the best passers in the league for a big man, one of the top shotblockers and defenders in the league at his position. The only thing you can really hold against him is his team success. He is an animate leader, a great citizen, very loyal to his franchise, very intense on the court. You cant really knock his leadership. So what holds him back from being a top 10-15 player in your opinion?
> ...


Sorry, if you asked me about Brand before, you're right, I didn't see it.

I agree that Brand's numbers are tremendous. I think the reason that people (including me) don't view Brand's numbers with reverence is for the same reason that people don't seem to be very interested in Abdur-Rahim's numbers (who is also a legitimate 20 ppg scorer through his career and a 9-10 rpg guy much of his career).

It's because he puts up his scoring numbers without really drawing consistent double teams. This is why Duncan's, S. O'Neal's, Garnett's numbers are so much more meaningful. It's about a given that they're going to be perma-doubled all game long. Whereas, I think that while Brand (and Abdur-Rahim) _can_ draw double-teams, they aren't automatically doubled.

Scoring 20+ while drawing an extra man is *far* more valuable than scoring 20+ without drawing that extra man all game long. Forcing a double team every time opens up your teammates much more and makes the team a lot better.

Further, while Brand is a good defender for his height, he's a bit too short and doesn't possess explosive athleticism...thus, he can be shot over and driven past by more athletically gifted power forwards.

Anecdotally, when the Blazers had Rasheed Wallace and played Brand's teams, Brand's team gave him double-team help with Wallace, while the Blazers didn't give Wallace double-team help with Brand (and he didn't need it). The Blazers did sometimes give Wallace double-team help with players like Duncan, Garnett and Webber because, as good a defender as Wallace is, some players are too good to be handled all game long by a single player. Brand is not such a player.

That said, Brand probably *does* get underrated some by a lot of people due to his team's success (as SAR has also), but I've heard people say Brand should be mentioned in the same breath as Duncan and Garnett and I simply can't agree with that, due to his inability to *command* double-teams and his defensive limitations stemming from height and athleticism.


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## Johnny Mac (May 6, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Minstrel</b>!
> Sorry, if you asked me about Brand before, you're right, I didn't see it.
> 
> I agree that Brand's numbers are tremendous. I think the reason that people (including me) don't view Brand's numbers with reverence is for the same reason that people don't seem to be very interested in Abdur-Rahim's numbers (who is also a legitimate 20 ppg scorer through his career and a 9-10 rpg guy much of his career).
> ...


I see. 

I dont think Rahim is a good comparison. Hes never been the rebounder, shotblocker or defender that Brand is. Rahim is also not as efficient of a scorer, as he usually hovers around 46-47% from the field. Rahim doesnt really do anything better than Brand except shooting three pointers. 

I certainly dont think Brand is on Duncan or KGs level, but theres a huge difference between that and dropping him out of your top 10 or 15 completely. Brand is not top 5 material, but that doesnt mean he cant be top 10.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>John The Cool Kid</b>!
> 
> 
> I see.
> ...


Well, I think Abdur-Rahim is a better ball-handler and passer, as well as perimeter shooter, than Brand.

But Abdur-Rahim was not meant to be an exact comparison for Brand. I'm hardly saying they are clones. I'm just saying that I feel the same dynamic is at play with both, and it's a reason why neither is *as* good a player as his numbers might suggest since both put up numbers that should seemingly earn them more respect.



> I certainly dont think Brand is on Duncan or KGs level, but theres a huge difference between that and dropping him out of your top 10 or 15 completely. Brand is not top 5 material, but that doesnt mean he cant be top 10.


The fact that he's not top 5 doesn't mean he can't be top 10, no...but I don't think he has the talent for top 10 or top 15.

There's the superstar level and then the star level. I think Brand is a star, but overrated if placed at the superstar level. Top 15 is a rough but decent line for "superstardom," in my opinion. I think when I've listed my superstars, I've listed between 12-15 players.

So, I'd say Brand is in the 16-25/30 range. You can make an argument for anywhere in that range, I think. Top 15 would be overrating him, in my opinion, and out of the top 25 or 30 would be underrating him.


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## Johnny Mac (May 6, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Minstrel</b>!
> Well, I think Abdur-Rahim is a better ball-handler and passer, as well as perimeter shooter, than Brand.


I disagree on the ball handling and passing, but yes, Rahim is the better perimeter shooter. 



> Originally posted by <b>Minstrel</b>!
> There's the superstar level and then the star level. I think Brand is a star, but overrated if placed at the superstar level. Top 15 is a rough but decent line for "superstardom," in my opinion. I think when I've listed my superstars, I've listed between 12-15 players.


Aside from all the "star" and "superstar" labels, I think Brand has more impact on a game than everyone aside from Duncan, KG, Shaq, Kobe, McGrady, Kidd and JO. 

When it comes down to it, Marbury is not going to lead you to a title, Pierce is not going to lead you to a title. Brand will not lead you to a title either, but I think Brand would be better than Pierce or Marbury as a 2nd fiddle on a championship team because he doesnt demand to have the ball in his hands to be successful. To me, that makes him a more valuable player.


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## Rockstone (Jan 21, 2004)

I find the list quite interesting. 

I like how so many people think that Iverson isn't a top ten player even though he (an undersized 2-guard) led a bunch of scrubs to the NBA finals.

I'm generally satisfied with the list. My only disappointment is that Steve Nash made it into this elite group. Come on!:no: I'm persuaded that Michael Finley is the second best player on the Mavs.

Great Job Keiran!:yes:


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>John The Cool Kid</b>!
> 
> Aside from all the "star" and "superstar" labels, I think Brand has more impact on a game than everyone aside from Duncan, KG, Shaq, Kobe, McGrady, Kidd and JO.


Well, I think quite a few other players have more impact on a game. Quite a few.

I guess we just disagree. But now you have my reasoning as to why Brand shouldn't be top-10/15.


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## Johnny Mac (May 6, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Minstrel</b>!
> Well, I think quite a few other players have more impact on a game. Quite a few.
> 
> I guess we just disagree. But now you have my reasoning as to why Brand shouldn't be top-10/15.


No doubt.


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

SAR doesn't really do anything better than Brand besides hit the mid range jumper. And really, his lack of a true post game makes him more of a 3 than a 4, similar to KG. He's a tweener. Brand's game is heavy low post, with the occasional 10 footers. 

I'd put Brand in my top 15. Quite frankly, I'd put him ahead of guys like Marbury and AI at this point. And I think he has more room for improvement, as his skills have never really been used correctly with the Clippers. 

It's also hard to ignore that this guy's career numbers are 20-11-3 and 2 blocks per game on 50% shooting. And he's 25, so he's going to improve. And he indeed *has* been improving steadily, as this past season was his best ever. 

So like *JTCK*, I think Brand is underrated. I think it's mostly because he's been with a losing team his whole career.


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## Johnny Mac (May 6, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>EHL</b>!
> SAR doesn't really do anything better than Brand besides hit the mid range jumper. And really, his lack of a true post game makes him more of a 3 than a 4, similar to KG. He's a tweener. Brand's game is heavy low post, with the occasional 10 footers.
> 
> I'd put Brand in my top 15. Quite frankly, I'd put him ahead of guys like Marbury and AI at this point. And I think he has more room for improvement, as his skills have never really been used correctly with the Clippers.
> ...


You must catch a lot of those Clipper games too. :yes:


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>John The Cool Kid</b>!
> 
> 
> You must catch a lot of those Clipper games too. :yes:


Brand is basically the only reason I tune in. It's great to see a guy work so hard on the court every night.


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## Johnny Mac (May 6, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>EHL</b>!
> Brand is basically the only reason I tune in. It's great to see a guy work so hard on the court every night.


I've always thought Brand would make a great 2nd fiddle to Kobe. They are the same age, Brand wouldnt mind taking a backseat, and does a lot of things other than score that really impact the game. On top of those things, they both work hard on and off the court, on both ends of the floor as well. They'd make a great 1-2 duo. 

One of the things that bothers me is when guys like Iverson and Marbury are put above such well rounded elite players who dont have to have the ball in their hands to make an impact. Brand is not the best "go to guys" in the league, but he is definitely one of the best "everything else" guys in the league.


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>John The Cool Kid</b>!
> 
> 
> I've always thought Brand would make a great 2nd fiddle to Kobe. They are the same age, Brand wouldnt mind taking a backseat, and does a lot of things other than score that really impact the game. On top of those things, they both work hard on and off the court, on both ends of the floor as well. They'd make a great 1-2 duo.


Nah, I'd rather have Brand, Kobe *and* Shaq. 



> One of the things that bothers me is when guys like Iverson and Marbury are put above such well rounded elite players who dont have to have the ball in their hands to make an impact. Brand is not the best "go to guys" in the league, but he is definitely one of the best "everything else" guys in the league.


Yup, definitely. But I think Brand will improve. Not a ton, but he'll improve.


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## Rockstone (Jan 21, 2004)

Final List VS. Rockstone’s List
My list is in bold....

1) Kevin Garnett  *1. Kevin Garnett*
2) Tim Duncan  *2. Tim Duncan*
3) Kobe Bryant  *3. Kobe Bryant*
4) Shaquille O'Neal  *4. Tracy McGrady*
5) Tracy McGrady  *5. Shaquille O'Neal*
6) Jason Kidd --- *6. Allen Iverson* (I purposely over-ranked Ivy a bit  )
7) Dirk Nowitzki  *7. Dirk Nowitzki*
8) Jermaine O'Neal <<< *8. Paul Pierce* (A bit of personal bias here)
9) Peja Stojakovic --- *9. LeBron James* (Same strategy for Ivy used here  )
10) Paul Pierce --- *10. Jason Kidd* (You all still got Paul in the top 10  )
11) Allen Iverson --- *11. Chris Webber* (C-Webb should be top 20 :yes: )
12) Stephon Marbury  *12. Stephon Marbury*
13) Baron Davis --- *13. Carmelo Anthony* (Ditto Ivy and Bron  )
14) Elton Brand --- *14. Jermaine O'Neal* (Brand top 15...REALLY?  )
15) Ray Allen --- *15. Peja Stojakovic*
16) Yao Ming --- *16. Baron Davis* (I think Yao’s top 35 :yes: )
17) Lebron James --- *17. Vince Carter*
18) Ron Artest --- *18. Ray Allen*
19) Andrei Kirilenko --- *19. Amare Stoudemire*
20) Sam Cassell --- *20. Shawn Marion*
21) Amare Stoudemire --- *21. Michael Finley* (Finley gets no love :no: )
22) Vince Carter --- *22. Elton Brand* (Top 25 for Elton folks :yes: )
23) Chris Webber --- *23. Sam Cassell* (So he’s the 8th best PF now... :no: )
24) Ben Wallace --- *24. Zach Randolph* (I guess Ben’s top 15 if he had game )
25) Micheal Redd --- *25. Andrei Kirilenko*
26) Lamar Odom --- *26. Michael Redd*
27) Shawn Marion --- *27. Ron Artest* (Yes I believe Ron isn’t top 20)
28) Zach Randolph --- *28. Steve Francis* (Don’t care for Stevie  )
29) Carmelo Anthony --- *29. Lamar Odom* (What was I thinking?)
30) Steve Nash --- *30. Gilbert Arenas*


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## Jammaster (May 5, 2004)

1.T.Duncan
2.K.Garnett
3.J.O'Neal
4.K.Bryant
5.P.Pierce
6.V.Carter
7.T.McGrady
8.P.Stojakovic
9.D.Nowitzki
10.A.Iverson
11.J.Richardson
12.E.Brand
13.S.Nash
14.L.James
15.S.Marbury
16.B.Davis
17.B.Wallacw
18.R.Wallace
19.A.Kirilenko
20.J.Mashburn
21.Z.Ilgauskas
22.Z.Randolph
23.S.Francis
24.C.Anthony
25.Y.Ming
26.M.Redd
27.J.Terry
28.S.Abdur-Rahim
29.D.Wade
30.M.Daniels


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Jammaster</b>!
> 1.T.Duncan
> 2.K.Garnett
> 3.J.O'Neal
> ...


Thankfully, your list doesn't count


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## Tersk (Apr 9, 2004)

The BASKETBALL BOARDS TOP THIRTY.
1) Kevin Garnett - *Kevin Garnett* - Correct
2) Tim Duncan - * Tim Duncan * - Correct
3) Kobe Bryant - *Shaq* - I had Shaq 1 spot to high
4) Shaquille O'Neal - *Tmac* - Tmac 1 spot to high
5) Tracy McGrady - *Kobe* - Kobe 2 spots to low
6) Jason Kidd - *JKidd* - Correct
7) Dirk Nowitzki - *Jermaine* - Jermaine 1 spot to high
8) Jermaine O'Neal - *Dirk* - Dirk 1 spot to low
9) Peja Stojakovic - *Peja* - Correct
10) Paul Pierce - *Starbury* - Starbury 2 spots to high
11) Allen Iverson - *Baron Davis* - BD 2 spots to high
12) Stephon Marbury - *Randolph* - Randolph 17 spots to high:S
13) Baron Davis - *Brand* - Brand 1 spot to high
14) Elton Brand - *Iverson* - Iverson 3 spots to low
15) Ray Allen - *Yao* - Yao 1 to high
16) Yao Ming - *LeBron* - LeBron 1 to high
17) Lebron James - *AK47* - AK47 2 spots to high
18) Ron Artest - *Amare* - Amare 3 spots to high
19) Andrei Kirilenko - *Ray Allen* - Ray 4 spots to low
20) Sam Cassell - *Pierce* - Pierce 10 spots to low:S
21) Amare Stoudemire - *Sam Cassell* - Cassell 1 spot to low
22) Vince Carter - *Webber* - Webber 1 to high
23) Chris Webber - *Nash* - Nash 7 to high
24) Ben Wallace - *Odom* - Odom 2 to high
25) Micheal Redd - *Carmello Anthony* - Carmello 4 spots to high
26) Lamar Odom - *Vince Carter* - Vince 4 spots to low
27) Shawn Marion - *Michael Redd* - Redd 2 spots to low
28) Zach Randolph - *Ben Wallace* - Ben Wallace 4 spots to low
29) Carmelo Anthony - *Ron Artest* - Artest 9 spots to low
30) Steve Nash - *Marion* - Marion wasnt even in da top 30


4 correct choices
9 players who I had 1 spot wrong
5 players who I had 2 spots wrong
2 Players who I had 3 spots wrong
10 players who i had 4 or more spots wrong


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