# Jason Williams retires



## Weasel (Oct 18, 2003)

http://www.hoopsworld.com/TheWireStory.asp?id=12650



> Los Angeles Clippers guard Jason Williams announced his retirement Friday, ending his 10-year NBA career.
> 
> Signed by the Clippers as a free agent in August, Williams did not appear in a game for Los Angeles but did play for the Sacramento Kings, Memphis Grizzlies and Miami Heat.


What the... Why did he sign here then? 

I guess Livingston could be a possibility again?? It seems no one wants him.


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## Cornholio (Feb 13, 2005)

I'm sorry but :rofl2:


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## Starbury03 (Aug 12, 2003)

What the Hell? That leaves an open roster spot. It would have been nice to have brought ross back for the minimum for that spot, or maybe bring back Shaun.


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## thaKEAF (Mar 8, 2004)

:uhoh:


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## Weasel (Oct 18, 2003)

After thinking about it my guess would be that he wants to play but after working out this summer his body doesn't.


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## Zuca (Dec 4, 2003)

Surprising news to me!

Would Cuttino try to convince Steve Francis to get out of his Houston contract and sign with Clippers?


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## Ruff Draft (Nov 21, 2004)

That sucks. Good luck White Chocolate.


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## Futurama_Fanatic (Jul 21, 2005)

this was random but yeah we need to get another player.


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## qross1fan (Dec 28, 2004)

I guess now we'll be chasing Stephon Marbury and those rumors were somewhat true, don't know if they had a basis for it then though.

So our PG rotation is now Baron Davis|Jason Hart|Mike Taylor...not too good if Davis goes down.


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## matador1238 (May 3, 2006)

wtf.....

We need to make a trade...Mobley and Thomas anybody?


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## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

Hart started for us, so were fine there. But it would be ridiculous if we could add marbury to this team. I dont know how we could pull it off, who knows if he will even be waived.... but imagine if we could get marbury. Hes not that old, and just a couple years ago was a star player. Who could ask for more with a minimum salary backup.


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## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

maybe its time to make a run at ak47.


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## NewAgeBaller (Jan 8, 2007)

Well that was odd.. :laugh:

Atleast he didn't burden your team instead.


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## ElMarroAfamado (Nov 1, 2005)

when marbury puts it all out there he is a hell of a player...BUT
all his baggage.....i dont know man


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## joser (Nov 29, 2005)

damn. right when I thought we were finally solid in the PG position.


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## leidout (Jul 13, 2005)

If Marbury is up for grabs, I'd love to offer Cuttino & Thomas & Hart (we can't trade Williams/P.Davis/Skinner) for him. With a change in scenery and hopefully the motivation to play for a new contract, Marbury & Baron in the backcourt would be a defensive nightmare for opponents. And if it doesn't work out, just ask him to politely go home and let his huge $21 million dollar deal expire. We'd essentially be the same team, only Thornton & Gordon would get more playing time and we'd have a TON of salary cap room for next offseason. Cuttino is a solid shooter who D'Antoni can certainly exploit. And D'Antoni has already brought out the best in Tim Thomas before, hopefully he can do it again. New York should jump on the deal, because an expiring salary for the Knicks is pointless anyways, right?

Another, more realistic possibility: Javaris Crittenton looks like he might be the odd man in Memphis. Why not offer Tim Thomas + Sofo rights + 2nd rounder for Darko & Crittenton. I think Darko is a bit more well suited to play a 3-man rotation with Camby & Kaman, our blocks per game would be ridiculous (10 bpg anyone...?)!!!


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## PAIDNFULL23 (Jul 9, 2005)

I want J-Critt too, I'll even give Memphis our unprotected 1st round pick in next years draft, which will be a fairly weak draft. Thomas and the pick for Crittenton and Warrick.


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## Ninerballin (Feb 21, 2006)

PAIDNFULL23 said:


> I want J-Critt too, I'll even give Memphis our unprotected 1st round pick in next years draft, which will be a fairly weak draft. Thomas and the pick for Crittenton and Warrick.


LOL, worst trade ever. Why would they want Thomas, and why in the hell would they give up the only future they have? Hell throw Conley in too, Give the freaking house!


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## PAIDNFULL23 (Jul 9, 2005)

Ninerballin said:


> LOL, worst trade ever. Why would they want Thomas, and why in the hell would they give up the only future they have? Hell throw Conley in too, Give the freaking house!


They're getting an unprotected first round pick, dumb ***. J-Critt is their 3rd string PG and their future is Gay, Mayo and Conley.


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## thaKEAF (Mar 8, 2004)

I think I'll pass.


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## qross1fan (Dec 28, 2004)

leidout said:


> Another, more realistic possibility: Javaris Crittenton looks like he might be the odd man in Memphis. Why not offer Tim Thomas + Sofo rights + 2nd rounder for Darko & Crittenton. I think Darko is a bit more well suited to play a 3-man rotation with Camby & Kaman, our blocks per game would be ridiculous (10 bpg anyone...?)!!!


It'll take more then a 2nd and Sofo to get Darko and Javaris. Personally, I'm just going to hope Tinsley or Marbury get waived and we sign them, or we probably won't do anything and have a Hart/Taylor duo backing up Baron. It isn't that bad, mainly if Hart plays like anything he did during his last stint. Getting some depth up front is more important, Skinner is well, but Davis not really and Jordan is too raw.

Going back to the trade with Memphis, I believe we would need to do something like: Thomas + Sofo Rights + 2 2nd Rounders + Minny First Rounder for Critt and Darko.

I also wonder why we didn't give Smush a training camp invite, or Andre Barrett, Jared Jordan, Will Conroy or something to give Taylor a challenge for a roster spot.


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## leidout (Jul 13, 2005)

qross1fan said:


> It'll take more then a 2nd and Sofo to get Darko and Javaris. Personally, I'm just going to hope Tinsley or Marbury get waived and we sign them, or we probably won't do anything and have a Hart/Taylor duo backing up Baron. It isn't that bad, mainly if Hart plays like anything he did during his last stint. Getting some depth up front is more important, Skinner is well, but Davis not really and Jordan is too raw.
> 
> Going back to the trade with Memphis, I believe we would need to do something like: Thomas + Sofo Rights + 2 2nd Rounders + Minny First Rounder for Critt and Darko.
> 
> I also wonder why we didn't give Smush a training camp invite, or Andre Barrett, Jared Jordan, Will Conroy or something to give Taylor a challenge for a roster spot.


Well Memphis has succeeded in bringing Marc Gasol over, so Sofo's rights might be a bit more enticing to them.... I agree that we need a quality back up PF/C and PG, which a Memphis trade would solve. But trading Minny's 1st & TWO 2nd round picks??? Three picks overall? No way!!

I'd have no problem upgrading it to Thomas + Sofo's rights + 1st round pick (unprotected). At this time, it's obvious memphis isn't looking to contend for a playoff spot. So giving up Darko would just be a salary dump & give extra time for their core group of the future (Conley, Mayo, Gay, Arthur, Gasol) to develop.

While the clippers would have a well bolstered bench to complement our starters:

B.Davis/Crittenton
Gordon/Mobley
Thornton/R.Davis
Camby/Milicic
Kaman/Skinner

While it'd be nice to get Tinsley or Marbury on the cheap, they're probably more likely to jump to a contender or demand more than a minimum price/length contract. If we acquired either one thru trade, i'd only be interested in Marbury's expiring contract, because Tinsley still has 3 expensive years left.


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## qross1fan (Dec 28, 2004)

leidout said:


> Well Memphis has succeeded in bringing Marc Gasol over, so Sofo's rights might be a bit more enticing to them.... I agree that we need a quality back up PF/C and PG, which a Memphis trade would solve. But trading Minny's 1st & TWO 2nd round picks??? Three picks overall? No way!!
> 
> I'd have no problem upgrading it to Thomas + Sofo's rights + 1st round pick (unprotected). At this time, it's obvious memphis isn't looking to contend for a playoff spot. So giving up Darko would just be a salary dump & give extra time for their core group of the future (Conley, Mayo, Gay, Arthur, Gasol) to develop.
> 
> ...


Well, we have always wasted 2nd rounders, so those are basically moot and that Minny pick won't be seen for another 3 years. I'd personally do that easily because Critt is an intruiging prospect, and at 6'5 he can form a nice backcourt with the 6'3 Eric Gordon. Darko isn't making that much. In the end, I see us not getting a backup PG and Mike Taylor beating out Jason Hart for the backup PG spot.


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## DaFranchise (Jun 29, 2005)

Haha, now everyone wants J Critt? We still should have drafted him


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## ElMarroAfamado (Nov 1, 2005)

hmmm and whos going to play the 2 ? 
i think cuttino will be great but i mean will eric gordon be enough hell even someone at the 4 who knows whats gonna happen with steve novak


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## sertorius (Sep 24, 2005)

To a large extent, it absolutely blows for J. Williams to just punk out like he did, however if he really didn't want to play anymore then good riddance. Beyond that, I would love to see the Clippers give Shaun another shot at coming back to the team. Obviously he did not gather enough interest from anyone else out there, so if he gets his head on right he might see that this team is at least willing to offer the chance to comeback to the NBA that apparently no one else is willing to give him.


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## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

Wow... if this team were to add Marbury, they might have successfully assembled the most selfish collection of players ever on one team! Baron, Mobley, Gordon, Ricky Davis, Tim Thomas, Thornton, Kaman, and now Marbury??? Will there ever be a single half court offensive possession without an isolation play?


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## Futurama_Fanatic (Jul 21, 2005)

RollWithEm said:


> Wow... if this team were to add Marbury, they might have successfully assembled the most selfish collection of players ever on one team! Baron, Mobley, Gordon, Ricky Davis, Tim Thomas, Thornton, Kaman, and now Marbury??? Will there ever be a single half court offensive possession without an isolation play?


except that mobley, thornton, and kaman arent selfish players.


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## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

Futurama_Fanatic said:


> except that mobley, thornton, and kaman arent selfish players.


Kaman might not be selfish if he weren't such a poor passer. I agree that Mobley has gotten less selfish over the course of his career. Thornton, though, has proven in his first season to be a highly selfish offensive player.


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## Futurama_Fanatic (Jul 21, 2005)

RollWithEm said:


> Kaman might not be selfish if he weren't such a poor passer. I agree that Mobley has gotten less selfish over the course of his career. Thornton, though, has proven in his first season to be a highly selfish offensive player.


how so? he was unrefined and he didn't know what he was doing at times. does that qualify as gimme the ball, let me take the shot, or any other selfish behavior? i saw him play and person and what i saw was not a selfish player. he took the shots no other players were willing to take except maggette and this was against the memphis grizzlies. and if you've seen maggette try and shoot before you would appreciate al trying to get a shot off.


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## Futurama_Fanatic (Jul 21, 2005)

and what about eric gordon? i havent even seen him log a minute in the nba so its too early to say if he is selfish or not


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## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

Futurama_Fanatic said:


> and what about eric gordon? i havent even seen him log a minute in the nba so its too early to say if he is selfish or not


I agree that I have no NBA basis for calling him selfish. I simply know that he was widely criticized last season for being a selfish college player. He might change his identity in the NBA. It's certainly possible.

As far as Thornton goes, he is selfish in the same way that I've always criticized Darrell Armstrong and Jannero Pargo for being selfish and in the way that Sam Cassell was selfish for last year's Celtics. He takes shots that kill ball rotation when one more pass would result in an open, rhythm jump shot. He takes them from awkward spots on the floor (for example: not exactly the baseline area, not exactly the wing, not exactly the elbow, a step inside the free throw line extended, one foot inside the arc). I've also found that he tends to over dribble and to lack a general sense of patience on the court. Unlike with Armstrong and Cassell though, I guess some of those traits could be caused by his inexperience as you mentioned. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for this season.


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## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

Thornton easily the most selfish player on the team last year since he took more "bad" shots than others, and had the worst assist/minutes played ratio on the team. However, i dont really think that made a huge impact on the clippers fortunes. If we had marbury on the team, i dont know if a guy with a career average of 8 assists can be called TOO selfish. In comparison, his assist per minute ratio is 500% of Thornton's. If marbury could give us 8 points and 4 assists off of the bench in 20 minutes of play, ill take that "selfishness" any day of the week.


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## DaFranchise (Jun 29, 2005)

Thornton had to jack up shots b/c we had NO other option last year.


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## qross1fan (Dec 28, 2004)

DaFranchise said:


> Thornton had to jack up shots b/c we had NO other option last year.


Bingo. That and he basically had the green light to do whatever he wanted as we weren't going to do **** last year. That isn't going to happen this year with Baron joining the team. Plus, he also had to play with Brevin Knight, Smush Parker, Andre Barrett, Dan Dickau running th epoint as well.


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## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

yamaneko said:


> If we had marbury on the team, i dont know if a guy with a career average of 8 assists can be called TOO selfish. In comparison, his assist per minute ratio is 500% of Thornton's. If marbury could give us 8 points and 4 assists off of the bench in 20 minutes of play, ill take that "selfishness" any day of the week.


You cannot accurately assess the selfishness level of a ball-dominator like Marbury by looking at raw statistics. Anyone who has watched him play significant minutes during his career will tell you how he gets his assists. He tends to pound the ball outside the 3-pt line until he either penetrates the lane looking for his own shot, jacks up a contested jumper, or throws a bullet pass to a man in scoring position. He almost never keeps the ball moving. Let me give you a couple scenarios to illustrate this using the Clipper roster.

Let’s say Kaman has his man sealed on the left block. Marbury has the ball at the top of the key and sees this circumstance. He will do one of two things. He’ll either try to make the entry pass from an impossible angle and risk a needless turnover or he’ll dribble the ball incessantly looking for a driving lane or waiting for Kaman to get even deeper position so he can get a sure assist. This will either lead to Kaman getting the ball with 5 or more seconds less on the shot clock to operate than he would have had or to Marbury jacking up an ill-advised shot at the shot clock buzzer. An unselfish PG in that situation would merely dribble once or twice to get in appropriate entry position and then make the smart pass. Marbury doesn’t have a grasp on that concept.

In another scenario, let’s say the ball goes in to Kaman down low with plenty of time left on the clock. He gets doubled and passes the ball out to Camby 16 feet from the basket. Then, Camby rotates the ball to Marbury on the wing. Marbury is going to do one of two things with that ball regardless of the rest of the offensive set. He’s either going to jack up a shot or stop all ball rotation by over-dribbling. He will not make an additional swing pass because he doesn’t have a feel for running a play to completion. This is a trait he shares with Baron Davis, actually. While both players are above average starting PGs in this league because of their talent levels, neither will ever be unselfish players until they begin to understand the nuances of the offenses they play in.

All that being said, comparing a veteran PG like Marbury to a rookie forward like Thornton really does a disservice to both players, IMO.


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## Futurama_Fanatic (Jul 21, 2005)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdTBxjg9l4U

nice try marbury but thats the reason i dont want you on this team


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## Showtime87 (Jun 27, 2005)

You'd have to trade Mobley and Thomas (for starters) to get Marbury and his 21 million dollar contract. This would help next season when the team would have a huge amount of cap space to work with, but I don't think it helps this year's team at all. If the Clippers had decided to rebuild after losing Maggette and Brand and simply strip the team down to bare bones I would be all for it But since they've done so much to add new players and build a core group around Baron, it simply wouldn't make since to dump two quality role players like that for a cancerous, aging, injury-prone Marbury.


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## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

> All that being said, comparing a veteran PG like Marbury to a rookie forward like Thornton really does a disservice to both players, IMO.


When i said that, it was in response to the line of debate on page 1/2 where someone said that clippers would have the most selfish team in the nba with marbury, and mentioned thornton as one of those players, and then someone else came in, agreeing that marbury was selfish, but that thornton was not. so thus i replied how could you say that someone with marbury's assist numbers be considered more selfish than someone who barely gives up the ball after getting it. 

Of course i would not compare thornton and marbury other than that...thats apples and oranges. 

Again, marbury gets the job done, ill take a selfish player with his assist numbers. Doesnt matter how he gets it when were talking either him getting 15 minutes a game, or jason hart. Theres no debate that marbury > Jason hart. Now, if williams were still here, and were talking jason williams getting 20 minutes as opposed to marbury, well, theres not all that much of a difference there anymore. 

Id pick him up right away if he was bought out. However, if it means mobley and thomas we have to trade, id only do it if we thought we could flip him later on this year for a star on a team who wants to save money, or if we were confident we could use his expiring deal to get a star next offseason.


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