# Raptors @ Nets, Dec. 6



## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

<center>

















*Toronto Raptors* (7-12) @ *New Jersey Nets* (4-12)
December 6th, 2004, 7:30 PM EST
Rogers SportsNet






































*Rafer Alston, Vince Carter, Jalen Rose, Chris Bosh, Loren Woods*





































*Jason Kidd, Richard Jefferson, Eric Williams, Jason Collins, Alonzo Mourning*</center>


----------



## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

I'm taking the Nets on this one... Kidd's back, the Raptors suck on the road, and we're in total disarray right now.


----------



## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

Kidd is not going to be back for sure I think. He's probable.
Hopefully he won't play, but I still think the Raptors should take this one, we usually play good against the Nets, and in past years their best contributer against us, K-Mart is out of town.


----------



## Sánchez AF (Aug 10, 2003)

Sure why not we help most of the big guys in this league to get great Stats is Jason Collins Alonzo Mourning and Aaron William time !!!


----------



## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

Naw... the Nets are one of the few teams that actually have a worse starting frontcourt than us eek: - is that possible?!) and this is a good chance for Woods to prove he's actually not the worst starting center in the league.


----------



## adhir (Apr 13, 2004)

well arent we the luckiest team in the league....we finally get a break and play a team that we can most prolly beat...and that same night their superstar PG comes back....so it wont be an easy win...im sure we will loose....but it will be a fight...the nets will be hyped up that JKidd is back, however they may have chemistry problems...and Kidd doesnt have Kmart to lob all those passes over our frontline...but look for Collins Williams and Zo to have big nights....but i predict a raptors loss....


----------



## VTRapsfan (Dec 5, 2004)

Kidd's probably going to play, but I doubt he'll be as good as he was pre-injury. Plus, the Raps don't really have to worry about anyone but Jefferson and Kidd, so maybe they'll be forced into bad shooting nights (not that they're great shooters normally). As long as Carter and Rose don't go cold on us, we should be able to pull this win out.

Raptors 108, Nets 101


----------



## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

What indication do you have that Vince won't go cold on us?


----------



## Pejavlade (Jul 10, 2004)

raps 104
nets 89

rafer 24pts 12asts 4rebs 4 stls
donyell 19pts (4-5 3pt) 9rebs
vince 21pts 3rebs 3 ats

rj 22pts 9rebs
kidd 9pts 7asts


----------



## Lope31 (Jun 11, 2002)

I'm gonna take the Raps in this game simply because we are due for one. I'd like to see Alston start playing like we know he can because when he does he can be our best player. Another thing I would like to see is Chris Bosh to stop playing average good and start playing great. Take it to the next level Chris, here is a good chance to give us a glimpse.

Hopefully we keep VC and JR rolling because if we just forget about them completley and a deal doesn't go through we could be burning two very important bridges. I'm not saying hand them the keys to the team but don't forget about them either.

Alston can out play Kidd and if he does then I think that will be enough to get us this win. Hopefully Jefferson doesn't go off on us like he does against Detroit all the time and we'll be all set.


----------



## VTRapsfan (Dec 5, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Budweiser_Boy</b>!
> What indication do you have that Vince won't go cold on us?


He's been playing better the last few games. Also he might want to show up everyone who thought he faked the food poisoning thing to get out of playing LeBron. Yes, I know he probably did fake it, but he'll want to make himself look better than if he played crappy tonight.


----------



## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>RaptorsCB4</b>!
> 
> 
> He's been playing better the last few games.


Yeah really he has..
Check out these unbelievable stats.

vs Heat: 5 points, 4 assists, 2 rebounds 2/9 FG

vs Magic: 21 points, 3 rebounds, 3 assists, 7/15 FG

vs Celtics: 12 points, 5 rebounds, 3 assists, 5/17 FG


----------



## VTRapsfan (Dec 5, 2004)

Nov. 23 vs. Wizards: 25 pts.
Nov. 24 vs. Knicks: 22 pts.
Nov. 27 vs. Knicks: 19 pts.
Nov. 28 vs. Wizards: 26 pts.
Nov. 30 vs. Heat: 5 pts.
Dec. 1 vs. Magic: 21 pts.
Dec. 3 vs. Celtics: 12 pts.

I'd say he did pretty well in 5 out of the last 7.


----------



## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>RaptorsCB4</b>!
> Nov. 23 vs. Wizards: 25 pts.
> Nov. 24 vs. Knicks: 22 pts.
> Nov. 27 vs. Knicks: 19 pts.
> ...


We also lost in 5 out of the last 7.


----------



## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

Those are numbers that you would expect from VC, not above average by any stretch of the imagination.

Plus you said he's been playing well lately, and the last 3 games, he hasn't done anything but pad stats when the game was not on the line.


----------



## VTRapsfan (Dec 5, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Turkish Delight</b>!
> Those are numbers that you would expect from VC, not above average by any stretch of the imagination.
> 
> Plus you said he's been playing well lately, and the last 3 games, he hasn't done anything but pad stats when the game was not on the line.


I said he was playing _better_, as opposed to the terrible start of the season for him, not that those numbers were spectacular.


----------



## madman (Oct 20, 2003)

Is kidd gonna play, even if he does i still think that we have a very good chance at winning this game


----------



## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

madman, i'm no fan of halo but that's a really nice looking av


----------



## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

I think the Raps handle the Nets quite easily.

Yeah, Kidd is back, but he is just coming off a huge injury and hasn't played in a long time. He will obviously play limited minutes, and in those limited minutes he should struggle as he will have to get used to the fast pace of the game, and will be a bit out of shape.

Raps 104
Nets 87


----------



## madman (Oct 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>trick</b>!
> madman, i'm no fan of halo but that's a really nice looking av


What not a fan of Halo that is unheard of....


jokes thanks


----------



## Sánchez AF (Aug 10, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>madman</b>!
> 
> 
> What not a fan of Halo that is unheard of....
> ...


Yep is a great av


----------



## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

hopefully we can win after such a great start to the season we keep jus droppin off and off. and trust jkidd to be bk the nite the raps are in town but hopfully only with limited mins. i would love to see the raps take this 1 we really need it so ima say *raps 102 nets 95*


----------



## pspot (Jul 14, 2004)

I guess VC has been playing better, to his credit the game which he scored 4pts he did make the big defensive play to win the game
Still i wouldnt say he has been a reliable scorer for us, so i wouldnt rely on him tonight, if he shows up thats great
JKidd, first game back, hes unhapyy, hopefully that means he wont be at his best, and the teams chemistry should be off tonight to
Raps 103 to 89


----------



## HB (May 1, 2004)

Honestly if we dont win this game, I will be so upset. The nets have been the whipping boys of the NBA, we definitely need to blow them out


----------



## DaBigTicketKG21 (Apr 27, 2003)

I think it will be hard to win this game for both teams. The Nets will surprise the Raps with their run n gun style with Kidd back, but when they trap teh nets into a half court set, then the raps will start taking over. We will have to see which Defense plays better.


----------



## sKiP~2~mY~BLUTH (Aug 11, 2004)

do u know in what shape kidd is?
i cant see him paly more then 25-30 minutes...
gotta win this one.
we have way more depth...
dont wonna know what happen if we lose it...


----------



## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

In the Sun today it said Carter skipped practice yesterday to rest back at his hotel room. So who knows if he's playing tonight or not.

I don't mean to sound like a *******, but I hope he's still heavin' so he won't make it tonight.


----------



## madman (Oct 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Numbed One</b>!
> In the Sun today it said Carter skipped practice yesterday to rest back at his hotel room. So who knows if he's playing tonight or not.
> 
> I don't mean to sound like a *******, but I hope he's still heavin' so he won't make it tonight.


why would you not want vince to come? he increases his trade value with everygame he gets 20+ ppg


----------



## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

We really need to win this one, even with Kidd in the lineup I think we will.
Bosh and Alston are going to tear it up tonight.
Book it.


----------



## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>madman</b>!
> 
> 
> why would you not want vince to come? he increases his trade value with everygame he gets 20+ ppg


I'm sick of watching him. It is selfish, and won't help his trade value, but for the good of the team's chemistry and chances of winning I hope he's a no-go.

And Alston is going to take Kidd to school. No way in hell Kidd can keep up with Alston while recovering from knee surgery.


----------



## Sánchez AF (Aug 10, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Numbed One</b>!
> 
> 
> I'm sick of watching him. It is selfish, and won't help his trade value,


So its better for his trade Value having him in the bench with Food poising than him in the court ?


----------



## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>SpeakerBoxxX</b>!
> 
> 
> So its better for his trade Value having him in the bench with Food poising than him in the court ?


:uhoh:



> Originally posted by <b>Numbed One</b>!
> 
> 
> I'm sick of watching him. *It is selfish, and won't help his trade value*


----------



## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

would it really matter now if vince plays or not?

despite how poorly he's played this season, GM's still want him and knows he isn't playing his fullest until he gets out of TO.

vince certainly hasn't made the most of his opportunities whenever he's given the PT.


----------



## Sánchez AF (Aug 10, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Numbed One</b>!
> 
> 
> :uhoh:


How he's selfish if he's taking no more than 20 shots p/ game You can blame Vince of be lazy pr dont want play for the Raptors or he's playing really bad but he's not playing selfish this season


----------



## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>SpeakerBoxxX</b>!
> 
> 
> How he's selfish if he's taking no more than 20 shots p/ game You can blame Vince of be lazy pr dont want play for the Raptors or he's playing really bad but he's not playing selfish this season


I said I was selfish for wanting him to not play, sorry for the misunderstanding.


----------



## CrGiants (Dec 4, 2003)

Dunno how true it is, but 1080 The Fan in Portland is reporting that according to their sources in Toronto, Jalen Rose has been told he will be dealt soon (he supposedly told reporters this a short time ago).


----------



## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

Sportsnet sez:

Carter is playing. Woods is playing.


----------



## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

Wow what is Loren Woods thinking with those wild J's?

A combination of good defense and the Nets sucking big nutts is keeping us in the game. 17-11 Raptors, like 2 minutes left in the 1st.


----------



## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

Not going to be a pretty game. Rafer and Milt should be effective, despite Kidd's return. Bosh needs to work on his post game, an explosive baby hook would be a nice start. I think we take this game.


----------



## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

RJ is trash.

We're leading but that's the only positive. Both teams playing like crap.


----------



## adhir (Apr 13, 2004)

9 points 5 boards for Bosh...nice start to the game...hopefully he keeps it up....


----------



## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

Lamond Murray is on FIYAH!!!


----------



## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

The form on Murray's shot has never looked so good (with the Raps). So smooth on his first 3.


----------



## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

THANK YOU MATT BONNER!

Cause we can NOT hit a J right now...


----------



## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

Wow get Mo Pete outta there... he's stinkin it up.


----------



## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

YES! YES VINCE CARTER!!!


----------



## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

The Nets look like the 03-04 Raptors. Too bad we're not capitalizing though...


----------



## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

So nice to have picked up Bonner. He could be a perennial best sixth man candidate. I could see his playmaking skills improving significantly thanks to his great bball instincts. Decieving quickness and a shot that won't quit. Thanks GG.


----------



## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

Is it just me or does it seem like no matter what happens on both ends, it's gonna end up being Raptors by 6?

Yet another BS call against the Raptors though...


----------



## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

Come ON!!! We HAVE TO extend this lead! I don't trust us in the 3rd... not even against the Nets.


----------



## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

That's a bit of a relief... Murray's miracle trey at the end of the half... and we really needed that. We woulda headed into the half with only a 2 point lead if not for that.

Here's hoping the Nets never gel and the Raptors sometime do.


----------



## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

Holy crap, that was a monster triple. Murray is so streaky, either everything falls for him or nothing does. Its a good thing Murray found his shot tonight because Mo Pete is struggling.

I am kind of glad for Mo Pete's sake he stayed here in the offseason, he could be embarrassing himself with big minutes in NO right now.

And I really like the way Marshall and Bonner play together, they always look great.

But I hate how Marshall's offense is all about extremes. Either he's right under the basket or jacking up shots near the 3 point line. There is no inbetween. He jacks way too many 3s.


----------



## VTRapsfan (Dec 5, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Turkish Delight</b>!
> We really need to win this one, even with Kidd in the lineup I think we will.
> Bosh and Alston are going to tear it up tonight.
> Book it.


I can't watch the game from here, but good call, so far.
JKidd with 5 TOs already.:yes: 
Raptors are shooting 34% from the field, Nets 38% - :sour: 
But we're leading at the half, so I can't complain much.


----------



## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

47-42 at the half
Murray leads the Raps with 10 points
Jefferson has 12 for the Nets

We should win this one easily.


----------



## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Turkish Delight</b>!
> 47-42 at the half
> Murray leads the Raps with 10 points
> Jefferson has 12 for the Nets
> ...


Sshhh... don't jinx it.


----------



## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

Forreal... 49-44 Raps right now... lmao @ Jack... "ever had food poisoning Chuck? I've never had it..."


----------



## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

Yay! Now it's Jalen's turn to go cold!

For the first bit of the quarter, both teams were hot, but now it seems they've gone back to their first half ways... which should be good for the Raptors, seeing as we're the better offensive team.


----------



## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

Vince's J has been money this quarter... nice hustle too.


----------



## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

Eric Williams is a ****kicker... but doing well for himself.

EDIT: this was written before the blown lay-up. Now he's just a ****kicker... plain & simple.


----------



## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

No Hoffa. The smaller lineups work fine against the Nets. 

Not a bad game by VC.


----------



## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

*smh*


----------



## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

once again *smh*


----------



## HB (May 1, 2004)

Yet another loss, to the freaking nets. The raps are a joke


----------



## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

Oh my god... oh my god...

I can't take anymore of these games, these loses are more embarrassing than blowouts.

God ****ing jesus ****ing mother ****er ******* ***** **** AAAHHHHHHH


----------



## MonkeyBallZJr (May 7, 2004)

:upset: :upset: :upset: :upset: :upset: :upset: :upset: :upset: 

Frickin luck just ain't on our side!!!!!!!


----------



## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

God hates the Raptors


----------



## Jordan VS WHO!! (Jun 25, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Numbed One</b>!
> Oh my god... oh my god...
> 
> I can't take anymore of these games, these loses are more embarrassing than blowouts.
> ...


I hear ya..


----------



## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

Vince misses another clutch layup with some contact. These are the kind of losses that could have us vying for a top 10 pick again. 

Vince was pretty good despite limited opportunities. The ball is never swung into his hands for an open shot. It always seems to be going away from him although he hasn't been given the roll of drive and disher this season.

Wonder if Carter and Kidd talked about the possibility of playing together. Think they have a good grasp of potential destinations for themselves?


----------



## pspot (Jul 14, 2004)

Nets getting 60 rebounds, thats got nothing to do with luck
this is ****ing awful


----------



## HB (May 1, 2004)

How many fouls not called have lost us games this season. This is getting freaking ridiculous.


----------



## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

The refs sucked like always too. The Raptors are ALWAYS screwed over in the final minutes of these close games.

Its almost like the refs punish the Raptors for letting the games get so close, but its not the ref's place to do that. I'm not being a stupid homer either, I don't know how the refs would explain the bull**** they pull.


----------



## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>SkywalkerAC</b>!
> Vince misses another clutch layup with some contact. These are the kind of losses that could have us vying for a top 10 pick again.
> 
> .


don't u dare blame this loss on vince


----------



## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

What the hell is going on? 
We always manage to throw these games away.


----------



## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

rebounding is one of the easiest aspects of basketball.

E A S I E S T S aspects.


----------



## P33r~ (Nov 22, 2004)

this is like the 89073th game you guys gave away a lead late in the fourth. i wanted to see the raptors win for once oh well maybe god does hate them


----------



## ElevatorMan (Jan 8, 2004)

i dont blame this on vince i thnk he was the only one who played well tonight... it was just a bad role on the rim...bad bad bad loss considering the raptors outplayed the nets the whole game.


----------



## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Numbed One</b>!
> The refs sucked like always too. The Raptors are ALWAYS screwed over in the final minutes of these close games.
> 
> Its almost like the refs punish the Raptors for letting the games get so close, but its not the ref's place to do that. I'm not being a stupid homer either, I don't know how the refs would explain the bull**** they pull.


let's not go there.

the last thing i'd want are raptor fans turning into Kings fans where refs are concerned.


----------



## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

VC played a good game tonight, especially on the defensive end. I don't know why they called him for a foul that last second and gave RJ the ball back. 
That offensive rebound really killed us.
Carter had what, 22 points? 
He played well, but why does he never go straight at the bucket when the game is on the line? 
:upset:


----------



## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

The ball bounced on the rim like 4 times then came out, what a disaster.


----------



## Jordan VS WHO!! (Jun 25, 2004)

I'd rather have vince take an iso jumpshot over a driving layup; at the buzzer.

Vince just doesn't have the strength to finish in traffic anymore. How many times have we seen Vince miss a layup at the buzzer. Coach should have opted for a 10-20 foot jumpshot for vince or a kick-out to donyell for a 3 from the corner. 


Anyone notice how Kevin O'niell was a much better last minute coach than mitchell.


----------



## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

All these constant problems going on with the team. 
Today VC and Bosh play well, but Jalen and Bonner struggle.
Donyell was good again, but Rafer didn't have his best game by any means. 
Murray played well, but Peterson struggled.
Why is it that whenever one players has a good performance, someone new starts to struggle?


----------



## Jordan VS WHO!! (Jun 25, 2004)

I have one word to sum this game up:

it wasn't a real word, anyways. please don't mask. speedy.


----------



## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

Now we're 7-13 and we play at Detroit on Wednesday.
Things don't look good at all. 
Doesn't get much easier when we come back home, we goto play Denver, Miami and Minnesoda. 
After the next 4 games are all set and done, could we be looking at a 7-17 Raptor team? 
*Shivers*


----------



## Mike1155 (Apr 9, 2004)

It's like a freaking broken record watching this team. They will lead for the majority of the game & then piss the lead away late in the 4th quarter. It's ****ing ridiculous. This ****ing team is cursed!


----------



## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>trick</b>!
> 
> 
> let's not go there.
> ...


I know what it sounds like, and for the most part I am of the opinion that the bad calls will eventually even out, but I've watched just about every game this season and I don't know how to explain this ****. The Raptors consistently get bad, bad, bad calls against them on defense and bad, bad, bad no calls on offense in the final couple minutes of close games. Pretty much every close game, actually.

Like what the hell. Its either the refs or the curse of Vince Carter, I don't know. But the reffing is not consistent on both sides of the ball late in close games for the Raptors.


----------



## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Jordan VS WHO!!</b>!
> I'd rather have vince take an iso jumpshot over a driving layup; at the buzzer.


listen to yourself are you serious? a jumper over a layup? ..if vince pulled up for a 20ft shot and missed you would be crying the oppisite


----------



## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Numbed One</b>!
> 
> 
> I know what it sounds like, and for the most part I am of the opinion that the bad calls will eventually even out, but I've watched just about every game this season and I don't know how to explain this ****. The Raptors consistently get bad, bad, bad calls against them on defense and bad, bad, bad no calls on offense in the final couple minutes of close games. Pretty much every close game, actually.
> ...


Yes we have been getting some crucial calls against us when it really mattered, especially on the offensive end.
But the thing is, you need respect from the refs to get those calls.
You need to be driving the lane often to get those calls.
If you only drive the lane once or twice and expect to draw a foul...
Good luck.


----------



## Jordan VS WHO!! (Jun 25, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Mr_B</b>!
> listen to yourself are you serious? a jumper over a layup? ..if vince pulled up for a 20ft shot and missed you would be crying the oppisite


Only on the buzzer.. yep i'd rather have Vince take a jumpshot, he's had more success with it. 

If it's jalen or someone else, I'd take a layup.. but not vince. 
Vince can jumpover opponents for an isolation jumpshot. Specially when it was kid guarding him. He just doesn't have the body control to take a bump and be able to finish a layup.


----------



## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Jordan VS WHO!!</b>!
> 
> 
> Only on the buzzer.. yep i'd rather have Vince take a jumpshot, he's had more success with it.
> ...


lol like I said if he did that and missed you would cry the oppisite anyway u look at it vince did the right thing


----------



## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Jordan VS WHO!!</b>!
> 
> 
> Only on the buzzer.. yep i'd rather have Vince take a jumpshot, he's had more success with it.
> ...


It depends. 
If he's going to take a fade away as always, then no, drive, but if he will have his feet set and all, it's a tough choice. 
But if VC could just prove to me that he could drive to the lane without shying away from contact, then I would take the layup. 
I'm being too picky aren't I.


----------



## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Turkish Delight</b>!
> 
> 
> Yes we have been getting some crucial calls against us when it really mattered, especially on the offensive end.
> ...


That's bull****. There are tons of no calls throughout the game, but I'm not going to ***** about those because hey, it happens.

But respect shouldn't be a factor in the final minute when the game is on the line. The rules don't change. Call it by the book, not by their assessment of whether they deserve it or not.

Its not up to the refs to dictate how a team plays, its to call fouls when they happen, regardless of what has happened throughout the duration of the game.

And this isn't the Raps of past years, they drive it much more regularly than in years past. I don't buy that excuse.


----------



## 2pac (Nov 19, 2004)

NO ONE CAN BLAME THIS LOST ON VINCE. VINCE AND CHRIS WERE THE ONLY ONES WHO STEPPED UP FOR US ON THE DEFENSE PERIOD. WE GAVE UP ****IN 60 REBOUNDS!!!!!! IF WE DIDN'T HAVE VINCES N BOSHS DEFENSE 2NITE THIS GAME WAS A BLOWOUT NO DOUBT. WE JUST A SOLID BIG MAN AND A LEADER. WHEN WE HAD OAKLEY, AD, CHRIS CHILDS , WE WERE A GOOD LOCKER ROOM AND PLAYED A TEAM GAME. WE NEED SOME MORE PLAYERS LIKE THAT.


----------



## rapsfan4life (Apr 10, 2004)

This is rediculous, they blew it again, let me sum up everyone's reaction on the last sequence by vince


:| :shy: :sigh:      :upset: :upset: :upset: 

I think that is the 3rd game tying lay up going to his left hand this season, i mean vince kept on us in this game but don't you just want to stand up out of your chair, throw something at your t.v and yell out your lungs at vince, something along the lines of explode and dunk the ball you washed up piece of_______

now where was i? oh yes.....:upset: :upset:


----------



## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>2pac</b>!
> NO ONE CAN BLAME THIS LOST ON VINCE. VINCE AND CHRIS WERE THE ONLY ONES WHO STEPPED UP FOR US ON THE DEFENSE PERIOD. WE GAVE UP ****IN 60 REBOUNDS!!!!!! IF WE DIDN'T HAVE VINCES N BOSHS DEFENSE 2NITE THIS GAME WAS A BLOWOUT NO DOUBT. WE JUST A SOLID BIG MAN AND A LEADER. WHEN WE HAD OAKLEY, AD, CHRIS CHILDS , WE WERE A GOOD LOCKER ROOM AND PLAYED A TEAM GAME. WE NEED SOME MORE PLAYERS LIKE THAT.


Holy ****, settle down, no one is blaming anything on Carter.


----------



## 2pac (Nov 19, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Turkish Delight</b>!
> I'm being too picky aren't I.


yea man u r, even last year if you remember during the game vince settled for jump shots then in chrunch time when he always drove 2 the line and got something good out of it. So why can't he drive on more occassions. There was no contact tho in the final shot vince took.


----------



## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

oh no, not another loss 

get used to it boys.


----------



## 2pac (Nov 19, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Numbed One</b>!
> 
> 
> Holy ****, settle down, no one is blaming anything on Carter.


read other peoples comments then you'll see who blaming vince.


----------



## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

obviously this team is in need of some inside presence defensively.

let's hope those talk between TO and NO for PJ Brown are for real.

alot of these losses all attribute to rebounding, one way or another.


----------



## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Numbed One</b>!
> 
> 
> Holy ****, settle down, no one is blaming anything on Carter.


Haha yeah.
He's right though.
We need someone who strikes fear in our opponent, someone that will foul them hard. 
I miss Oakley. :uhoh: :uhoh:


----------



## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>trick</b>!
> obviously this team is in need of some inside presence defensively.
> 
> let's hope those talk between TO and NO for PJ Brown are for real.
> ...


Who would we send them?
Donyell has been one of the few bright spots on the team, and he's been consistant since coming back from that injury. 
Mo Pete can't be sent to New Orleans unless there is another team involved.


----------



## djmyte (Jun 10, 2002)

Pj Brown? Another pf pretending to be a centre is the last thing we need, especially one that is entering his mid 30's and that is guaranteed a lot of money over the next few seasons.


----------



## 2pac (Nov 19, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>trick</b>!
> obviously this team is in need of some inside presence defensively.
> 
> let's hope those talk between TO and NO for PJ Brown are for real.
> ...


why would we want PJ Brown. He can't play C hes a pure PF. And we would be giving up Marshall for Brown, and Marshall can easily grab as many rebounds as PJ Brown. Wre just need a leader on the floor and a solid big man. Look at Detroit who was their superstar? Their only all star was Big Ben, but they have a lot of leaders in Rasheed, Chancey Billups, Rip Hamilton which makes them really good. 
If jason kidd didn't play for the nets 2nite they would've lost no doubt, Jason Kidd is a born leader thats why i asked for that deal to bring in Jason Kidd we will be really good with J Kidd --BOOK IT----


----------



## TRON (Feb 29, 2004)

This team seems to be playing every game expecting to lose in the end, no matter what lead they have 

the winninng attitude is non existent and I could see a lot of games like this for the rest of the year, these guys believe they will lose before the game begins

The way they played the first 5 games, was an overwhelming overachievment and think we all know what this team is about. It really takes losing to a team as mediocre as NewJersey to see how difficient this team is

I'm not hatin on Vince when I say that was the biggest choke of his career, missed wide open lay up? you got to be kidding me


----------



## 2pac (Nov 19, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>djmyte</b>!
> Pj Brown? Another pf pretending to be a centre is the last thing we need, especially one that is entering his mid 30's and that is guaranteed a lot of money over the next few seasons.


Thank you exactly my point. djmyte knows what hes saying


----------



## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Turkish Delight</b>!
> 
> 
> Who would we send them?
> ...


Donyell is just not a good defensive presnce down low. in fact, alot of this team has trouble boxing out their man, hence the terrible rebounding differentials 4 out of the 5 times.

and Brown is a good post defender and has good knowledge to teach a thing or two to our young big men in Bosh and Araujo.

as for the trade, the key pieces seem to be Donyell for Brown. i'd like to send them Moiso as well.


----------



## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>2pac</b>!
> 
> 
> read other peoples comments then you'll see who blaming vince.



No, I see no one blaming the loss on Vince. People said he missed that layup, which he did. No one is pinning the loss on Carter's shoulders.


----------



## 2pac (Nov 19, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>trick</b>!
> 
> 
> Donyell is just not a good defensive presnce down low. in fact, alot of this team has trouble boxing out their man, hence the terrible rebounding differentials 4 out of the 5 times.
> ...


what u sayin. Yell is amazing down low in his defense hes one of our best interior defenders after Bosh


----------



## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

That was painful. I don't know that we blew this game, because I didn't ever feel confident that we had the game in hand. Our lead was relying on the poor shooting of the Nets--and our own shooting woes were a cause for major concern. It came back to haunt us late in the game and bam, it's over.

Vince had a nice, well-rounded game for once. Then he misses that lay-in to end it. Guy can't get a break even when he works for it.

His defence on Jefferson seemed adequate for the most part, though Vince had obvious trouble running through screens to keep a body on him. Jefferson is a very quick and athletic player but you'd expect Vince to be able to handle that. Jefferson almost had a triple-double tonight, so for those praising Carter's defensive effort, note that he was -4 in points, -9 in rebounds, and -7 in assists in that head-to-head.

8 FTA's? Great. 0 rebounds? Bad. 50% shooting? Great. 1 assist? Bad. 3 steals? Great. 3 turnovers and 5 fouls? Bad. 22 points? Great. Only 14 shot attempts? Bad. You get the picture.

Still, Vince made a few key defensive plays that helped us maintain the lead and then keep the Nets from taking-over. The effort was there for most of the night.

Bosh came-out and had a good game. He was patient with the ball, which is a world of difference from being tentative. He made good decisions, focused on holding tight and finding the rim. He managed to make fifteen points out of five made shots and had a few huge blocks, which is a sight to behold. His shotblocking is picture perfect when he's working it. He keeps the ball in-bounds, he doesn't put it right back in the opponent's hands... if only he had the same tenacity each game. This is something that will come in time. Having a better centre beside him would allow him to take more chances.

People on this board are familiar with my admiration for Eric OC Williams. I really wish we could've had some money to sign him this summer. He didn't have a great game tonight, which wasn't fun to watch. He's struggled this season and I wonder if he is still the player he once was.

Loren Woods managed a single defensive rebound tonight and was blanked on 0-3 shooting. Up and down for Woods.

Rafer Alston played a lot of minutes and I thought he played well. He didn't let Kidd catch fire and he put his body on RJ on a switch or two late in the game. Eight assists on two turnovers is a relief.

Donyell Marshall is still having some trouble with his longball, but he was important for us tonight on the offensive glass. Sometimes I wonder how he manages to slip in for uncontested offensive rebounds. I think it has to do with the fact that he boxes-out about a third of the time, and his defender never knows whether he will avoid trying to get the board or if he will suddenly crash in.

Matt Bonner finally went cold. Hopefully it's just a hiccup and not the beginning of a slide back down to Earth (*knock on wood*).

Morris Peterson never seems to have a good game when we need it most. Can't figure that guy out.

Hopefully some _home cooking_ will remedy this skid. Otherwise we seem to be on the fast track to the lottery for a third season.


----------



## ballocks (May 15, 2003)

that was a heartbreaking loss. i think the team (on the whole) played relatively well- especially vince who (in my opinion) had his best game of the year- but couldn't put it away when it mattered. i think it was just bad luck more than anything. i don't think the team was prepared to fight back after having led for the first ~ 47 minutes. 

the offensive rebound that led to jefferson's fadeaway, and even the questionable 5th foul call on carter, just put us in a strange position. as a collective, i think our tolerance for those kinds of situations is limited at the moment, and i wasn't surprised when vince's lay-in rolled out. i think our team is emotionally sick right now and the modest adversity at the end of the game was simply too much to overcome. 

rebounding is obviously a huge problem, and may have been the primary reason for tonight's loss, but i think it's a problem that affects (for the most part) just marshall, bosh and bonner. i think lamond murray is actually a decent man on the glass (and when i say "decent", i really mean "average") and was impressed with the fundamentals he showcased underneath tonight. i guess that's one positive to pull from the game...

otherwise, i thought vince was a star on the defensive end, and was proud of the way he took charge of the troops in the fourth quarter. to me, that didn't look like a man who was purposely sabotaging his team's efforts in order to get traded (!), i thought he appeared to be a fantastic leader tonight. i even loved how he flew off the bench after mitchell called him back on the floor at 7:00 of the 4Q- he was ready and determined all night, and he embraced his role as our franchise player. 

anyway, this game would certainly be easier to take if we weren't mired in such an awful slump. the team played well, i didn't think the nets had any business winning this game (at all), mourning gets more calls than he deserves, our schedule is horrendous, and the nets don't have to put up with the media of a mega-metropolis like toronto. we just had all the intangibles spitting in our face tonight, but i certainly admired the effort put forth anyway.

i'm sure it'll feel a little better tomorrow.

peace


----------



## rapsfan4life (Apr 10, 2004)

I THINK THE CONSENSUS REGARDING VINCE AFTER THIS GAME IS THAT WE APRRECIATE HIS EFFORT BUT IN THE END THAT MISS WAS INEXCUSABLE, AND THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR A LAY UP WITH PRETTY MUCH NO CONTACT UNDER THE CURCUMSTANCES AND WHAT MAKES IT WORSE IS THAT IT IS THE THIRD GAME TYING LAY UP GOING TO HIS RIGHT THIS SEASON THAT WAS MISSED.


----------



## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>2pac</b>!
> 
> 
> why would we want PJ Brown. He can't play C hes a pure PF. And we would be giving up Marshall for Brown, and Marshall can easily grab as many rebounds as PJ Brown. Wre just need a leader on the floor and a solid big man. Look at Detroit who was their superstar? Their only all star was Big Ben, but they have a lot of leaders in Rasheed, Chancey Billups, Rip Hamilton which makes them really good.
> If jason kidd didn't play for the nets 2nite they would've lost no doubt, Jason Kidd is a born leader thats why i asked for that deal to bring in Jason Kidd we will be really good with J Kidd --BOOK IT----


Brown is playing centre right now for the Hornets in the absence of Magloire.

I will admit he is not the best solution we could get. But if we acquired him he would automatically become our best defensive post presence, which really isn't saying much until you think about the fact that Brown is considered to be one of the best post defenders in the league.

He would be an immeaurable upgrade down low over the Marshalls, Boshs, Bonners, and Woods...es.


----------



## rapsfan4life (Apr 10, 2004)

> GOING TO HIS RIGHT


excuse me, i meant left, i apologize


----------



## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Numbed One</b>!
> 
> 
> Brown is playing centre right now for the Hornets in the absence of Magloire.
> ...


Yes, but are we building a team for today or tomorrow? Trading for an old player with a big contract doesn't seem to be in our best interest unless we aren't planning on trading Carter.

I don't expect us to have an improved team in the short-term after trading Vince. Which means that the focus will be on developing our young talent rather than trying to make the post-season. Getting PJ is an obstacle more than it is an advantage in that sense.


----------



## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

Next up: Pistons
*Gulp*


----------



## 2pac (Nov 19, 2004)

I dont know what all you people say but the big reasons Nets won 2day was because of J.Kidd, he didn't have his best offensive game but you can see hes the leader. True Leader. thats why i go back to this-- 

Toronto Trades-- Vince Carter, Morris Peterson, Loren Woods,Donyell Marshall,Milt Palacio, Draft Pick

New Jersey Trades-- Jason Kidd, Alonzo Mourning, Aaron Williams, and Rodney Buford

New Jersey Starting 5--

PG--Travis Best/Zoran Planinic/Milt Palacio
SG--Vince Carter/Eric Williams/Mo Pete
SF--Richard Jefferson/Ron Mercer/Mo Pete
PF--Donyell Marshal/Brian Scalabrine
C--J. Collins/Jerome Moiso/Loren Woods

Toronto Starting 5--
PG--Jason Kidd/Roger Mason Jr.
SG--Rafer Alston/Rodney Buford
SF--Jalen Rose/Lamound Murray/
PF--Chris Bosh/Aaron Williams/Donyell Marshall
C--Alonzo Mourning/Matt Bonner

TRADE ACCEPTED--

Toronto is running a run n gun type of style which is perfect for Jason Kidd,

It makes New Jerseys bench much more effective and stronger which is really weak right now.


----------



## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Turkish Delight</b>!
> Next up: Pistons
> *Gulp*


I've already counted that game as an L


----------



## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>speedythief</b>!
> 
> 
> Yes, but are we building a team for today or tomorrow? Trading for an old player with a big contract doesn't seem to be in our best interest unless we aren't planning on trading Carter.
> ...


Fair enough. I wouldn't mind Brown coming over in a deal with Magloire, though.


----------



## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>2pac</b>!
> I dont know what all you people say but the big reasons Nets won 2day was because of J.Kidd, he didn't have his best offensive game but you can see hes the leader. True Leader. thats why i go back to this--
> 
> Toronto Trades-- Vince Carter, Morris Peterson, Loren Woods,Donyell Marshall,Milt Palacio, Draft Pick
> ...


that trade is garbage who would want an aging mourning with a big contract and could go down at any moment


----------



## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>2pac</b>!
> I dont know what all you people say but the big reasons Nets won 2day was because of J.Kidd, he didn't have his best offensive game but you can see hes the leader. True Leader. thats why i go back to this--
> 
> Toronto Trades-- Vince Carter, Morris Peterson, Loren Woods,Donyell Marshall,Milt Palacio, Draft Pick
> ...



:sour:

Actually, let me make that

:hurl:


----------



## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

Lottery, here we come. I can't stand this team much longer... I don't care what a lot of you (and myself) think, but Rose HAS TO go. I'm sick of underachieving. Get rid of Vince and Jalen in the same trade... I still like Jalen too, but it's time for him to be a 3rd or 4th option. If the Blazers can get J-Kidd too, then that'd be perfect for him. Anyway that's beyond the point.

The Raptors are now officially the laughingstock of the league. 2-11 on the road. I don't care WHAT you say, that is unjustifiable. Pathetic, simply pathetic. We can't close out games, we lost another 3rd quarter today, and nobody out on the court outside of Rafer Alston, Chris Bosh, Lamond Murray, and Matt Bonner gives a ****.

Vince Carter had a good game up to the last possession, the refs were awful as usual, but the biggest problem was our inability to run away with the game. It's true that we did a good job staving off Nets runs, but we couldn't make one of our own to really set ourselves apart from them, ane we had plenty of opportunities to. Let's face it - the Nets sucked in this game. They did before Kidd came back and they did it tonight. They missed shots left, right, and centre, they couldn't score in the post, and they proved they have by far the worst talent in our division. But guess what, we still couldn't capitalize!

Just a disgusting game overall...


----------



## 2pac (Nov 19, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Mr_B</b>!
> that trade is garbage who would want an aging mourning with a big contract and could go down at any moment


what u saying garbage? Mourning is aging yes but hes a huge inside presense for us, we don't need his offense only his interior defense, his rebouds, LEADER SHIPPPP. If we get morning and kidd we will be the top in our division guarnateed 3rd spot. With this team we going down!!!! .. Yo Turkish Delight u kno i'm right on this trade. I know Kidd and Mourning are aging bu we don't need Mourning in his prime right now. Only a solid C w/ith rebounds and Defense also his leadership. Same with Kidd. We will get our offense from Alston, Bosh,J.Rose,some frm kidd, Bonner,Murray and so on


----------



## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Budweiser_Boy</b>!
> Lottery, here we come. I can't stand this team much longer... I don't care what a lot of you (and myself) think, but Rose HAS TO go. I'm sick of underachieving. Get rid of Vince and Jalen in the same trade... I still like Jalen too, but it's time for him to be a 3rd or 4th option. If the Blazers can get J-Kidd too, then that'd be perfect for him. Anyway that's beyond the point.


I agree. I like him and was against dealing him with Vince to Portland, but I am getting sick of his inconsistency. The fact that his favourite shot is a 'hold the ball on the perimeter with a defender in my face for 5 seconds, then throw it up when there is no one under the basket to get the rebound' is quite annoying as well.



> Originally posted by <b>Budweiser_Boy</b>!
> The Raptors are now officially the laughingstock of the league. 2-11 on the road. I don't care WHAT you say, that is unjustifiable. Pathetic, simply pathetic. We can't close out games, we lost another 3rd quarter today, and nobody out on the court outside of Rafer Alston, Chris Bosh, Lamond Murray, and Matt Bonner gives a ****.


Mo Pete tries. I like his agression on the boards. But I don't know what's wrong with his shot. And I like Marshall's rebounding, but he takes way too many 3s. He takes a 3 every time he touches the ball on the outside. More people care than you are giving credit to. Its just that the most important players are the ones who are lacking in the heart department, and that exacerbates the whole problem.


----------



## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>2pac</b>!
> 
> 
> what u saying garbage? Mourning is aging yes but hes a huge inside presense for us, we don't need his offense only his interior defense, his rebouds, LEADER SHIPPPP. If we get morning and kidd we will be the top in our division guarnateed 3rd spot. With this team we going down!!!! .. Yo Turkish Delight u kno i'm right on this trade. I know Kidd and Mourning are aging bu we don't need Mourning in his prime right now. Only a solid C w/ith rebounds and Defense also his leadership. Same with Kidd. We will get our offense from Alston, Bosh,J.Rose,some frm kidd, Bonner,Murray and so on


get out of here you just look just looking for a temp fix its better to build for the future and has kidd ever been aa winner where ever hes been?


----------



## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>2pac</b>!
> 
> 
> what u saying garbage? Mourning is aging yes but hes a huge inside presense for us, we don't need his offense only his interior defense, his rebouds, LEADER SHIPPPP. If we get morning and kidd we will be the top in our division guarnateed 3rd spot. With this team we going down!!!! .. Yo Turkish Delight u kno i'm right on this trade. I know Kidd and Mourning are aging bu we don't need Mourning in his prime right now. Only a solid C w/ith rebounds and Defense also his leadership. Same with Kidd. We will get our offense from Alston, Bosh,J.Rose,some frm kidd, Bonner,Murray and so on



We are not a contending team. We need youth and cap space, not over the hill overpaid vets. The fact that we give up Woods, Peterson and a draft pick would be unbelievably counterproductive. Think about it.


----------



## 2pac (Nov 19, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Mr_B</b>!
> get out of here you just look just looking for a temp fix its better to build for the future and has kidd ever been aa winner where ever hes been?


Yes --- ---- the 1st year he came to NJ he got them to the FINALS and your telling me he not a leader??? With out J.Kidd this was a L fo NJ get your facts straight before you talk.


----------



## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Numbed One</b>!
> Mo Pete tries. I like his agression on the boards. But I don't know what's wrong with his shot. And I like Marshall's rebounding, but he takes way too many 3s. He takes a 3 every time he touches the ball on the outside. More people care than you are giving credit to. Its just that the most important players are the ones who are lacking in the heart department, and that exacerbates the whole problem.


Forget Mo. He hasn't made a shot in what... 482 straight games? Tonight he was ice cold and not helping his case on the other end, either. I know every NBA player is inconsistent and has ups & downs... but Mo has to be one of the most extreme players at that. And it's so sad because here's a player that could be and should be producing more than Jalen is!

Yell is playing great for us, but the reason I didn't include him in that little list was because he's in a contract year. We should re-sign him though to a short-term contract. He'll prolly make the starting lineup next year anyway, with the roster shakeups.


----------



## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>2pac</b>!
> I dont know what all you people say but the big reasons Nets won 2day was because of J.Kidd, he didn't have his best offensive game but you can see hes the leader. True Leader. thats why i go back to this--
> 
> Toronto Trades-- Vince Carter, Morris Peterson, Loren Woods,Donyell Marshall,Milt Palacio, Draft Pick
> ...


Worst trade ever


----------



## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>2pac</b>!
> 
> 
> Yes you fool the 1st year he came to NJ he got them to the FINALS and your telling me he not a leader??? With out J.Kidd this was a L fo NJ get your facts straight before you talk.


but did he win it? nope matter of fact hes been there twice and fell short lets look at his career and the teams hes played on

Dallas=FLOP
Phoenix=FLOP
Nets=semi productive 


now YOU get your facts straight before you talk


----------



## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Turkish Delight</b>!
> 
> 
> Worst trade ever


tell him....dude wants to trade our best players for two vets one who could go down at anytime and some scrubs ....and think there the fix after seeing them tonight


----------



## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

I'm telling you guys..

Toronto Trades: Vince Carter
Toronto Receives: Pietrus and Dale Davis

We can send a 2nd rounder too if need be.. Or send Donny for Dunleavy or something.


----------



## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Budweiser_Boy</b>!
> 
> 
> Forget Mo. He hasn't made a shot in what... 482 straight games? Tonight he was ice cold and not helping his case on the other end, either. I know every NBA player is inconsistent and has ups & downs... but Mo has to be one of the most extreme players at that. And it's so sad because here's a player that could be and should be producing more than Jalen is!


You're very right. He's pretty damn baffling. But I'm not sure he can help it. I think thats just the way he is. I don't know, he hurts my brain.



> Originally posted by <b>Budweiser_Boy</b>!
> 
> Yell is playing great for us, but the reason I didn't include him in that little list was because he's in a contract year. We should re-sign him though to a short-term contract. He'll prolly make the starting lineup next year anyway, with the roster shakeups.


I don't buy the contract year excuse with him. He was consistent like this all last year too.

And I wouldn't mind him sticking around next year, but I doubt it will happen. He is one of our hottest trade commodities, and will be dealt IMO.

Even if he stuck around, I hope he doesn't start. Any trades we make this year should be for a centre (Magloire please god), so I would hope Marshall would stay on the bench. But I think he'll be dealt.


----------



## 2pac (Nov 19, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Mr_B</b>!
> but did he win it? nope matter of fact hes been there twice and fell short lets look at his career and the teams hes played on
> 
> Dallas=FLOP
> ...


Who the **** did J.Kidd took on the same team New Jersey had a season before, but with Kidd he got them to the Finals. Yea they lost but who did they play? More experinced and Talanted L.A. Lakers. New Jersey only had Kidd, n K-mart but styll he got them there. If your telling me Kidd is that bad why is he on the ALL NBA TEAM????? ALL DEFENSIVE TEAM???? HE IS A PROVEN LEADER..NO DOUBT WHO MAKES EVERY ONE AROUND HIM BETTER.


----------



## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>2pac</b>!
> 
> 
> Who the **** did J.Kidd took on the same team New Jersey had a season before, but with Kidd he got them to the Finals. Yea they lost but who did they play? More experinced and Talanted L.A. Lakers. New Jersey only had Kidd, n K-mart but styll he got them there. Ok so shut the **** up fool u gots no arguements. If your telling me Kidd is that bad why is he on the ALL NBA TEAM????? ALL DEFENSIVE TEAM???? HE IS A PROVEN LEADER..NO DOUBT WHO MAKES EVERY ONE AROUND HIM BETTER.


Look dude, we aren't going to the finals now or in the next three years, maybe never. We don't need Kidd or Mourning or anyone like that, I can't believe you think that is a good trade. Come on now.


----------



## 2pac (Nov 19, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Numbed One</b>!
> 
> 
> Look dude, we aren't going to the finals now or in the next three years, maybe never. We don't need Kidd or Mourning or anyone like that, I can't believe you think that is a good trade. Come on now.


Yo i'm not saying we will go to the finals, like come on against Pistons, Heat? i don't t hink so. BUT. With those two they will imporve us, make us a much better team, and they are great locker room guys leader on the floor. Not just that they will make everyone improve and trust me we will win more games with those two. Makes us a complete line up- J.Kidd, Rafer, Rose,Bosh, n Mourning. Gives us interior defense help which we need and a great PG who can run our offense for us. Rafer then plays the SG.


----------



## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Numbed One</b>!
> 
> 
> Look dude, we aren't going to the finals now or in the next three years, maybe never. We don't need Kidd or Mourning or anyone like that, I can't believe you think that is a good trade. Come on now.


 :yes:


----------



## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>2pac</b>!
> 
> 
> Yo i'm not saying we will go to the finals, like come on against Pistons, Heat? i don't t hink so. BUT. With those two they will imporve us, make us a much better team, and they are great locker room guys leader on the floor. Not just that they will make everyone improve and trust me we will win more games with those two. Makes us a complete line up- J.Kidd, Rafer, Rose,Bosh, n Mourning. Gives us interior defense help which we need and a great PG who can run our offense for us. Rafer then plays the SG.


Rafer starting at the SG would be retarded.

But anyways, thats besides the fact that getting a couple more wins a season is pointless. Getting Mourning and Kidd would give us the type of team that we've had for the past 5 years, teams that have gone no where.

And isn't making it to the finals the ultimate goal? Any smart fan would give up some wins in the short term for a trip to the finals down the road. This deal would set us back like 5 years at least. We would be doomed to another seven to ten years of mediocrity, and I would not be a Raptors fan anymore. And I don't think I would be the only fan they would lose.


----------



## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>2pac</b>!
> 
> 
> ALL NBA TEAM????? ALL DEFENSIVE TEAM???? HE IS A PROVEN LEADER..NO DOUBT WHO MAKES EVERY ONE AROUND HIM BETTER.


point being? has the teams he been on ever made any noise with the acception of the 2 years in NJ if he was a real leader woulden't he take the other teams hes on somewhere plus him and alonzo are both in the ladder part of there career ....you should head to raps management and apply for the GM job and put that foolish trade idea on the resume and see if they call u back :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:


----------



## Lope31 (Jun 11, 2002)

Guys if you want to discuss trades then giver but all this calling people retarted, ideas retarted and all the cursing has to stop. The asteri (plural for asterik :uhoh: ) are giving me a head ache.

As far as the game goes I only catched the last minute and half as I just got back from bball of my own but all I can say is the fould on Vince was bunk and shouldn't have been called but what can you do. Would it kill the Raps to make there lead slightly LARGER than two for the last minute of the game?

Jefferson made a tough shot, kudo's to him. Vince's drive that would have tied the game was a nice one but unfortunatley it didn't turn out great. There is nothing he could have done that would have improved the shot drastically that I can think of, maybe he lost his focus or maybe somebody was closing a stall in the bathroom and a gust of wind travelled throughout the stadium and set the ball off course. Who knows. The last play wasn't something to be upset about, but finding ourselves relying on a last play against a team against the Nets _is_ upsetting.


----------



## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>KABI</b>!
> As far as the game goes I only catched the last minute and half as I just got back from bball of my own but all I can say is the fould on Vince was bunk and shouldn't have been called but what can you do. Would it kill the Raps to make there lead slightly LARGER than two for the last minute of the game?


Honestly... we just basically said, "hey guys, please, WIN THE GAME!"

RJ can't shoot. He took a shot, bricked it, and we STILL couldn't box out and get the rebound. Another case of late-game rebounding woes. This has got to stop!


----------



## Aurelino (Jul 25, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Mr_B</b>!
> but did he win it? nope matter of fact hes been there twice and fell short lets look at his career and the teams hes played on
> 
> Dallas=FLOP
> ...


If winning a championship is the only criterion for a player to be called a leader, then I would say (currently) only Duncan, Shaq and Billups/Wallace qualify and if you can't trade for these guys, you shouldn't trade for anyone I guess (not trading for Kidd because of his age/injury is understandable but to say he's not a leader??). Might as well stop playing since Toronto doesn't have anyone who's even half the leader that Kidd is.


----------



## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Aurelino</b>!
> 
> 
> If winning a championship is the only criterion for a player to be called a leader, then I would say (currently) only Duncan, Shaq and Billups/Wallace qualify and if you can't trade for these guys, you shouldn't trade for anyone I guess (not trading for Kidd because of his age/injury is understandable but to say he's not a leader??). Might as well stop playing since Toronto doesn't have anyone who's even half the leader that Kidd is.


That all is besides the fact. Kidd doesn't fit our team, that is not hard to see.


----------



## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>speedythief</b>!
> 
> 
> Yes, but are we building a team for today or tomorrow? Trading for an old player with a big contract doesn't seem to be in our best interest unless we aren't planning on trading Carter.
> ...


aside from what he brings to us statistically, think about what he would bring to us off the court.

here we have a veteran some players can look and depend up to. they might brush off his game demeanor of playing each game with poise and stature, as well as learning how the right way to defend is.

i highly doubt brown is going to make this team into a into a .667 type of team, but the intangibles he brings could be worthwhile in the long haul...

but again, the ideal thing for marshall is trade him for some legitimate inside help, defensively and/or offensively, and if the best we could get is brown, i'd consider that bringing him in would be more of an advantage than a disadvantage.


----------



## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>trick</b>!
> aside from what he brings to us statistically, think about what he would bring to us off the court.
> 
> here we have a veteran some players can look and depend up to. they might brush off his game demeanor of playing each game with poise and stature, as well as learning how the right way to defend is.
> ...


What position does he play, though? He's not really a centre. And that's where we'd put him.

So we have Antonio Davis all-over again. A hardnosed, workhorse type player in the twilight of his career making huge money for an extended period of time, playing out of position and putting up average numbers.

Meanwhile or rookie gets pushed further down the bench, as does our current project centre who has been playing the best ball of his career.

We trade Marshall's expiring contract for $8M in guaranteed money. We also lose the opportunity to trade D-Marsh for a first-round pick and thereby pick-up another young player to add to the new team core.

If we're going to rebuild, I want to do it right. Adding old players with big salaries, even if it means continuing to lose games by rebounding and interior defence, is a necessary evil.

I'd rather trade Vince and Jalen to clear space for new young players, and either keep Marshall or trade him for a young guy or a pick. Just IMHO.


----------



## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

Brown for Marshall does seem pretty unfair for us, financially and talent-wise.

but if NO would happen to throw in a first rounder and/or JR Smith to sweeten the deal, in addition for some of our fodder, then i'd pull the trigger.

but then again, i don't know if such a deal would even work under the CBA.


----------



## Sánchez AF (Aug 10, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>speedythief</b>!
> Yes, but are we building a team for today or tomorrow? Trading for an old player with a big contract doesn't seem to be in our best interest unless we aren't planning on trading Carter.
> 
> I don't expect us to have an improved team in the short-term after trading Vince. Which means that the focus will be on developing our young talent rather than trying to make the post-season. Getting PJ is an obstacle more than it is an advantage in that sense.


Thats something I'm worry about Why Drfat Araujo if we are looking to win in a few yrs I just cant understand that


----------



## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>SpeakerBoxxX</b>!
> 
> 
> Thats something I'm worry about Why Drfat Araujo if we are looking to win in a few yrs I just cant understand that


I don't think Babs predicted we would stink as badly as we do.

I don't think Babs predicted VC wouldn't be able to do more than he has.

A costly miscalculation? Possibly, but the jury is still out. As painful as these losses are, the season is still early.


----------



## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>trick</b>!
> Brown for Marshall does seem pretty unfair for us, financially and talent-wise.
> 
> but if NO would happen to throw in a first rounder and/or JR Smith to sweeten the deal, in addition for some of our fodder, then i'd pull the trigger.
> ...


The only way that deal would work is if we do something like this..


Toronto trades: PF Donyell Marshall	(9.7 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 1.0 apg in 21.8 minutes)
SF Lamond Murray	(6.0 ppg, 2.8 rpg, 1.3 apg in 15.8 minutes)
Toronto receives: PF PJ Brown	(8.7 ppg, 8.0 rpg, 2.0 apg in 34.3 minutes)
SG J.R. Smith	(2.8 ppg, 0.5 rpg, 0.5 apg in 9.6 minutes)
Change in team outlook: -4.2 ppg, +0.2 rpg, and +0.2 apg.

New Orleans trades: PF PJ Brown	(8.7 ppg, 8.0 rpg, 2.0 apg in 34.3 minutes)
SG J.R. Smith	(2.8 ppg, 0.5 rpg, 0.5 apg in 9.6 minutes)
New Orleans receives: PF Donyell Marshall	(9.7 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 1.0 apg in 21.8 minutes)
SF Lamond Murray	(6.0 ppg, 2.8 rpg, 1.3 apg in 15.8 minutes)
Change in team outlook: +4.2 ppg, -0.2 rpg, and -0.2 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

I don't think they'd accept that, even if we sent them a 2nd rounder.

They just traded Armstrong didn't they?
I think they keep Smith because they want young talent.


----------



## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

If we had to a trade to New Orleans, and it didn't involve Vince Carter....
What do you guys think of this: 


Toronto trades: PF Donyell Marshall	(9.7 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 1.0 apg in 21.8 minutes)
Alvin Williams	(No games yet played in 2004/05)
Toronto receives: PF PJ Brown	(8.7 ppg, 8.0 rpg, 2.0 apg in 34.3 minutes)
SF Rodney Rogers	(4.8 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 1.8 apg in 19.3 minutes)
Change in team outlook: +3.8 ppg, +4.8 rpg, and +2.8 apg.

New Orleans trades: PF PJ Brown	(8.7 ppg, 8.0 rpg, 2.0 apg in 34.3 minutes)
SF Rodney Rogers	(4.8 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 1.8 apg in 19.3 minutes)
New Orleans receives: PF Donyell Marshall	(9.7 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 1.0 apg in 21.8 minutes)
Alvin Williams	(No games yet played in 2004/05)
Change in team outlook: -3.8 ppg, -4.8 rpg, and -2.8 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED


----------



## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

The only way we'll drop Alvin is if he retires. After trying twice, I think it's an impossibility.


----------



## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>SpeakerBoxxX</b>!
> 
> 
> Thats something I'm worry about Why Drfat Araujo if we are looking to win in a few yrs I just cant understand that


Because you need to develop centers in-house and he thought he was the best center on the board. With Araujo on board, I'm not concerned about picking up a big man in a Vince Carter trade. Stockpiling bigmen is essential if this team wants to move forward.


----------



## 2pac (Nov 19, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Aurelino</b>!
> 
> 
> If winning a championship is the only criterion for a player to be called a leader, then I would say (currently) only Duncan, Shaq and Billups/Wallace qualify and if you can't trade for these guys, you shouldn't trade for anyone I guess (not trading for Kidd because of his age/injury is understandable but to say he's not a leader??). Might as well stop playing since Toronto doesn't have anyone who's even half the leader that Kidd is.


Thanks thats what i just wanted 2 say... J.Kidd is a proven leader. And we are just sending Vince who doesn't want to be in toronto. If he really wants to play he can make us win trust


----------



## 2pac (Nov 19, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Turkish Delight</b>!
> I'm telling you guys..
> 
> Toronto Trades: Vince Carter
> ...


WORST TRADE IN RAPTORS HISTORY IF THEY DO THAT,

Why, because Dale Davis is aging and will retire and we don't want his contrat. Piettrus has potential but won't be effective for another 2-3 years. So if we give up Vince for those two we want to be in the lottery for the next 2-3years??? no i don't think so. Instead we can pick up Adonal Foyle, J.Richardson and Pietrus as a filler. And Toronto would have to give 1 more player for that to work. 
But just doing Pietrus n Dale Davis just for Vince is stupid straight up.


----------



## RoddneyThaRippa (Jun 28, 2003)

This one is on Vince. He missed a damn layup. No excuses.


----------



## HB (May 1, 2004)

^ You've gotta be kidding me, do you actually know that Vince and Bosh were the only raps actually playing with consistent effort in that game


----------



## Lope31 (Jun 11, 2002)

The layup was tragic but the move Vince made was a good move and he got to the net the ball just didn't go down. Nothing we or he could do about that. I'm sure he didn't miss it on purpose. Poop happens.


----------



## Sánchez AF (Aug 10, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>2pac</b>!
> 
> 
> WORST TRADE IN RAPTORS HISTORY IF THEY DO THAT,
> ...


Well yeah is an waful contract but Dale contract is expiring


----------



## Sánchez AF (Aug 10, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Turkish Delight</b>!
> I'm telling you guys..
> 
> Toronto Trades: Vince Carter
> ...


No F ! Way Pietrus is decent but not enough and Dale is only an expiring contract and to get Dunleavy we need add more


----------



## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

Morris Peterson hasn't made a basket in THREE GAMES !! I can't believe people still support this guy and think he could be a starter. Never there when we need him, only when the team is rolling.

Rose is just waiting for a trade. Sam should have played Murray more - he had great energy and confidence tonight.

Nets starters outrebound Raptor starters 41-15 in the game. Vince has ZERO rebounds in 30 minutes !! And only 1 Assist. That's our superstar?

Loren Woods 1 rebound in 17 minutes. Guess its not just Hoffa and Moiso. Bosh with 5 boards in 33 minutes. Weak.

NJ played 11 guys and compare the bench minutes:

Almost exactly equal bench minutes. Points 30-24 for Raps. Rebounds 21-18 for Raps.

So both teams played about the same number of bench minutes and the Raptors got better production in points and boards.

Starters play 152 minutes compared to 88 bench minutes. Yet they only get 15 rebounds compared to 21 bench boards. Starters score 56 points which is right in line with their percentage of minutes (.6333 * 86 points = 54.5 points) Starters not doing anything special at all.

Nets starters played only 1 minute more than ours and outscored ours by 8 (64-56) and outrebounded ours by 21 (37-15). OUCH.

Vince hasn't gotten around a screen all season on D and this game was no different. Went under screens all game or just stopped and forced his teammates to rotate and cover. Jefferson got that wide open look from the FT line in the last minute when VC didn't fight through a screen.

Vince goes one on one with Jason Kidd (fresh off knee surgery) with no help D and can't score. No double. No help. Just a missed layup when the team most needed a score.

RJ 26/9/8 16 shots
VC 22/0/1 14 shots

That is EVERY game this season that VC has been outplayed by an opposition player. EVERY game.


----------



## Sánchez AF (Aug 10, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>lucky777s</b>!
> Vince hasn't gotten around a screen all season on D and this game was no different. Went under screens all game or just stopped and forced his teammates to rotate and cover. Jefferson got that wide open look from the FT line in the last minute when VC didn't fight through a screen.
> 
> Vince goes one on one with Jason Kidd (fresh off knee surgery) with no help D and can't score. No double. No help. Just a missed layup when the team most needed a score.
> ...


You cant blame Vince for this game he made a hard lay up it was not easy and dont forget the way Alonzo Mourning (How old is he 100) J. Collins Brian Scalabrine Krstic Destroy Our Big Guys its ridiculous blame Vince for this lost when the other team get 25 more than us Why dont blame Mo.P. 0-5 But no its all about Vince


----------



## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

Uhhh, I believe the VERY FIRST SENTENCE of my post blasted MoP didn't it? You see what you want to see.

But what are my expectations of MoP? Do I expect him to be the difference maker in games? NO. I expect our franchise player and 'superstar' to do that.

Vince is not the reason we lost. I don't know how many times I have to explain this to VC worshippers. BUT he did not play like a true superstar and win us this game. There is a difference.

You can't keep saying the guy is a superstar only to have him be outplayed in EVERY single game we play by the opposing team's best player that night.

Why can't VC rebound like Jefferson, Pierce, Kobe, Marion, etc, etc ? Why can't he box out and prevent those O boards? Why can't he fight around screens instead of making the other 4 guys run around to cover for him and break down our D? Are those unfair questions.

Rebounding 61-36. If Vince got 7 boards that takes NJ down to 54 and lifts the Raps to 43. Still lose the battle but the game is much, much closer. Difference of only 11 boards instead of 25.


----------



## HB (May 1, 2004)

Lol good ol' lucky to the rescue, refusing to give Vince any credit for the game last night. Its not as if he wasnt the best player on the raps team last nite, sure he missed that layup he should have made. But if the team had been playing like it should, would we have been in that position. Please listen to yourself, why cant Vince box out and get offensive boards, I ask again and will continue to ask, is Vince the only player on the raps. I thought it was the jobs of our bigs to do such, they are getting paid arent they. I can take some of the criticism but to not give the man any credit for his effort in that game is ludicrous.


----------



## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hbwoy</b>!
> Lol good ol' lucky to the rescue, refusing to give Vince any credit for the game last night. Its not as if he wasnt the best player on the raps team last nite, sure he missed that layup he should have made. But if the team had been playing like it should, would we have been in that position. Please listen to yourself, why cant Vince box out and get offensive boards, I ask again and will continue to ask, is Vince the only player on the raps. I thought it was the jobs of our bigs to do such, they are getting paid arent they. I can take some of the criticism but to not give the man any credit for his effort in that game is ludicrous.


Listen to yourself. Just because the rest of the team isn't rebounding doesn't mean its okay that Vince isn't either. Vince is supposed to lead the team by example, not the other way around.


----------



## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>SpeakerBoxxX</b>!
> 
> 
> You cant blame Vince for this game he made a hard lay up it was not easy and dont forget the way Alonzo Mourning (How old is he 100) J. Collins Brian Scalabrine Krstic Destroy Our Big Guys its ridiculous blame Vince for this lost when the other team get 25 more than us Why dont blame Mo.P. 0-5 But no its all about Vince


Last time I checked Morris Peterson wasn't our franchise player.

Carter had a good game I guess, if you compare to how bad his played this season, but if you compare him to even last year's VC, yesterday's game was average at best. 

As I said, VC had one of his best games this season, but he once again got outplayed by the opponent's top player, who last night was RJ.


----------



## VTRapsfan (Dec 5, 2004)

Turkish Delight - Right on the money in that last post. 

I couldn't watch it, but sounds like the refs were pretty bad in that game. Too bad, maybe they'll be easier on us later in the season (or maybe they just hate us). Anyway, Carter played well compared to other games this season, but didn't get the roll on the last layup. Bosh played well except for rebounding, and Alston was OK, dishing out 8 assists. Rebounding was horrible overall, especially considering NJ isn't a great team on the boards most of the time. As for the next game, we didn't think the Raps would win last time against Detroit, and look what happened. So hopefully we'll be surprised again!


----------



## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>RaptorsCB4</b>!
> Turkish Delight - Right on the money in that last post.
> 
> I couldn't watch it, but sounds like the refs were pretty bad in that game. Too bad, maybe they'll be easier on us later in the season (or maybe they just hate us).


They hate us. :yes:

Have for years... we don't even get hometown calls!


----------



## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

By the way, I'd just like to point out that this thread is the largest game thread in Raptors board history!

:clap: :clap: :clap:

See, there's <i>always</i> something to cheer about.


----------



## madman (Oct 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Budweiser_Boy</b>!
> By the way, I'd just like to point out that not only is this the largest game thread in Raptors board history, but it's the largest non-sticky'd thread PERIOD in Raptors board history!
> 
> :clap: :clap: :clap:
> ...


Stupid optimist


----------



## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

Whoops my bad... it's not the biggest non sticky'd thread ever... but it is the biggest game thread in Raptors board history...


----------



## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

Why are you so obsessed with posts?

:grinning:


----------



## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

stfu...


----------



## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Budweiser_Boy</b>!
> stfu...


:uhoh: 
That hurt..


----------



## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

ok


----------



## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

Calm down Alborz.
I know your mad.
Just count to 10 in your head..


----------



## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Turkish Delight</b>!
> Calm down Alborz.
> I know your mad.
> Just count to 10 in your head..


ookie Fabio...


----------



## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

Fabio?
My name is John and yours is Alborz.
Stop living a lie!


----------



## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Turkish Delight</b>!
> Fabio?
> My name is John and yours is Alborz.
> Stop living a lie!


:uhoh:

Dude you're freakin me out... I don't know you...


----------



## madman (Oct 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Budweiser_Boy</b>!
> 
> 
> :uhoh:
> ...


:nonono:


----------



## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

:laugh:


----------



## Lope31 (Jun 11, 2002)

Don't make me throw down the moderation hammer you know I have been waiting for. :grinning:


----------



## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>KABI</b>!
> Don't make me throw down the moderation hammer you know I have been waiting for. :grinning:




Hey KABI.... whatever happened to AIKB?


----------



## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>KABI</b>!
> Don't make me throw down the moderation hammer you know I have been waiting for. :grinning:


Yep. KABI's call as to how long this padding continues. I know he's aching to let loose on somebody around here.


----------



## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

:laugh: John and Alborz. classic.


----------



## madman (Oct 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>SkywalkerAC</b>!
> :laugh: John and Alborz. classic.


it's even funnier when you know them


----------



## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

They can't close this thread if we talk about the Raptors game here and there.

Raptors lost yesterday..










Budweiser_Boy = Alborz

He doesn't want people to know that he's named after an Iranian mountain.


----------



## Phenom Z28 (Nov 22, 2004)

Yea that layup was tragic... When I saw it on its way down I instantly sat up and went crazy cuz it looked completely good. Then on my way sitting back down I saw it bounce back out, I felt like crying. Then with time still remaining he didn't foul, that had me bewildered.

But Vince did have a great game and we DID catch some make up calls from the refs, like that block from Bosh that should have been a goaltend.

It was a good game overall...we should have won but in typical Toronto fashion, we couldn't rebound or play a full 48 minutes. I figured our team would be a great close-out/3rd quarter team because of our bench, but I guess not


----------



## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Turkish Delight</b>!
> He doesn't want people to know that he's named after an Iranian mountain.


Even though I posted my name on the OT thread...


----------



## TOballer (Aug 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Turkish Delight</b>!
> 
> Budweiser_Boy = Alborz
> 
> He doesn't want people to know that he's named after an Iranian mountain.


u got it twisted...the mountain is named after him.


----------



## Sánchez AF (Aug 10, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>lucky777s</b>!
> Vince hasn't gotten around a screen all season on D and this game was no different. Went under screens all game or just stopped and forced his teammates to rotate and cover. Jefferson got that wide open look from the FT line in the last minute when VC didn't fight through a screen.
> 
> Vince goes one on one with Jason Kidd (fresh off knee surgery) with no help D and can't score. No double. No help. Just a missed layup when the team most needed a score.
> ...


I know you hate Vince and everything but can you stop be so Blind he play good defence against RJ and i'm not the only one who think that 



> After Vince Carter sat out the Cavs game with a stomach virus, he responded big time and was terrific in the loss to the Nets. Vince played outstanding defence on Richard Jefferson. He also played a solid all-around game and was fluid and focused.


http://www.nba.com/raptors/news/swirsky_041208.html


----------



## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

Are you actually arguing that Vince DOES get around screens? That's a ridiculous claim to make.

Let's watch tonight and see if he tries to guard RIP. That's always good for a laugh.

Just watch the final minutes against the Nets. Tell me that Vince doesn't just stop at the screener and allow RJ a wide open 17 foot shot. Then tell me that Vince doesn't get caught looking at Kidd and let RJ get the penetration into the lane for the winning bucket. Horrible D.

I believe my own eyes rather than what Swirsky writes on the internet.

Vince was horrible in the first half too. He looked completely out of it on both ends. RJ is too physical for him.

All season long I watch Vince go under screens, or just stop completely at the screen, and allow wide open J's or curls into the lane.

Many times I will rewind a play after we give up a key rebound or wide open look to see how the play developed. And quite often its VC missing an assignment.

Not that our other players don't make the same mistakes. They do. But Vince is consistently bad on D, and he should not be. The fact that others are bad does not excuse his poor performance.


----------



## Lope31 (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Budweiser_Boy</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That wasn't even me, that was a guy from fanhome who PM'ed me all the time!


----------



## arcade_rida (Jun 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>ballocks</b>!
> that was a heartbreaking loss. i think the team (on the whole) played relatively well- especially vince who (in my opinion) had his best game of the year- but couldn't put it away when it mattered. i think it was just bad luck more than anything. i don't think the team was prepared to fight back after having led for the first ~ 47 minutes.
> 
> the offensive rebound that led to jefferson's fadeaway, and even the questionable 5th foul call on carter, just put us in a strange position. as a collective, i think our tolerance for those kinds of situations is limited at the moment, and i wasn't surprised when vince's lay-in rolled out. i think our team is emotionally sick right now and the modest adversity at the end of the game was simply too much to overcome.
> ...



Sorry... I don't agree... Vince Carter wasn't on Richard Jefferson all game.. Sometimes Jalen, Mo pete, and Lammon were on him. Really I would like to put the blame on the whole SG/SF unit on our team.


----------



## arcade_rida (Jun 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>lucky777s</b>!
> Are you actually arguing that Vince DOES get around screens? That's a ridiculous claim to make.
> 
> Let's watch tonight and see if he tries to guard RIP. That's always good for a laugh.
> ...


Just curious.. was it Vince Carter's fault we lost the game?


----------



## arcade_rida (Jun 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>lucky777s</b>!
> Morris Peterson hasn't made a basket in THREE GAMES !! I can't believe people still support this guy and think he could be a starter. Never there when we need him, only when the team is rolling.
> 
> Rose is just waiting for a trade. Sam should have played Murray more - he had great energy and confidence tonight.
> ...


I have your answer and agree about almost everything you are saying.


----------

