# Chill out on the "Oden a disappointment"



## SodaPopinski (Aug 10, 2004)

I swear some of you must have never watched a game Oden played in. If you expected him to come in to summer league and score 30 and pull down 15 boards every night, you're sorely mistaken. That's not his game. He impacts the game in so many other ways. That's why people say Durant will probably win more scoring titles, but Oden will probably win more NBA titles.

Listen if he plays poorly throughout the summer league, there might be a slight reason for concern.

But there's a reason why any D-1 school would have taken him coming out of high school and why he was the consensus number one pick this year and why he is a candidate to represent his country on the USA basketball team. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that talent scouts and coaches and GM's and NBA analysts might know a little more about this kid than some irrational fan behind a keyboard. It's ONE GAME.

-Pop


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## yuyuza1 (May 24, 2006)

*Re: Chill out on the "Oden a disappointment" crap*

Thanks for being the voice of reason. The guy can play, but he just wasn't himself tonight.


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## Todd (Oct 8, 2003)

*Re: Chill out on the "Oden a disappointment" crap*

The whole board set themselves up by getting sucked into the hype machine. Everything will be just fine but we are going to loose quite a few games for a while.


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## SodaPopinski (Aug 10, 2004)

*Re: Chill out on the "Oden a disappointment" crap*



yuyuza1 said:


> Thanks for being the voice of reason. The guy can play, but he just wasn't himself tonight.


This isn't surprising to me. He's a 19-year old kid with a ton of hype surrounding him. And he's got to figure out the game as it is at this level. His past experience tells me he'll be fine. He had a couple of stinkers at the beginning of his college career, but that seemed to all work out fine for him.

-Pop


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## Spoolie Gee (Feb 3, 2005)

*Re: Chill out on the "Oden a disappointment" crap*

Dwight Howard was like 1-12 in his first SL game.


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## Yega1979 (Mar 22, 2003)

Fans have a right to react however they want. Oden didn't have a very good game, and many were expecting him to at least play well against summer league competition.


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## Tortimer (Jun 4, 2007)

We just need to be patience. I hope everyone has more patience then this. It is going to take at least a couple years before we are really ready to compete. I still think Oden is going to have a good year and will play better in the next game. He will improve as the year goes on. I think when Oden and LMA play together more we will have a great defensive duo. I was worried a lot of fans wouldn't give Oden and the Blazers enough time to develop but this is sort of crazy for only one summer league game.


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## ProZach (Oct 13, 2005)

As for Oden laying the perverbial egg... Let's be honest, great players rarely do that in summer league. But it does happen. Chris Paul once went scoreless from the field in 32 minutes during the summer. L. Aldridge's first game was 8 pts, 3 reb. - not much better. Dwight Howard was already mentioned. But still, the fact he was bad in every way was surprising. Two rebounds? Ten fouls in 20 minutes? 

BUT
BUT 
BUT! I'm not panicking for several reasons - A few health issues, he's probably still a bit out of shape (due to his hectic schedule of late and the fact he's been sick for awhile), NBA jitters for a guy one year removed from H.S., and last but not least, "common" sense.

edited: After reading a few other posts I felt oddly compelled to add parenthesis around the word 'common'.


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## ryanjend22 (Jan 23, 2004)

he is so out of shape right now...add on the sinus infection, this being his first game...



bottom line, i'm not worried.


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## RoyToy (May 25, 2007)

screw oden

it's lamarcus aldridge time baby.


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## Oldmangrouch (Feb 11, 2003)

The reaction is sad, but hardly surprising. 

Over the next 12 months, we will hear Oden discribed as follows: "thug", "gangster", "bust", "lazy", "underachiever", etc. The Portland media and "fans" just can't help themselves. 

When Sheed left, I predicted that the fans would turn on Zach. With Zach gone, Oden becomes the obvious candidate to be the new and improved antichrist.


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## dudleysghost (Mar 24, 2006)

SodaPopinski said:


> I swear some of you must have never watched a game Oden played in. If you expected him to come in to summer league and score 30 and pull down 15 boards every night, you're sorely mistaken.


Tell that to the people who think Oden has a shot at being an all-star this year. I think blind optimism is just as incorrect as blind pessimism.


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## e_blazer1 (Feb 3, 2004)

Oldmangrouch said:


> When Sheed left, I predicted that the fans would turn on Zach. With Zach gone, Oden becomes the obvious candidate to be the new and improved antichrist.


Wow. Just frickin wow.


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## barfo (Jan 2, 2003)

Oldmangrouch said:


> The reaction is sad, but hardly surprising.
> 
> Over the next 12 months, we will hear Oden discribed as follows: "thug", "gangster", "bust", "lazy", "underachiever", etc. The Portland media and "fans" just can't help themselves.
> 
> When Sheed left, I predicted that the fans would turn on Zach. With Zach gone, Oden becomes the obvious candidate to be the new and improved antichrist.


Just wait till he's caught tonight with four aging prostitutes, a bunch of pills, and a midget from the Ukraine. Las Vegas honeymoons are short.

barfo


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## TP3 (Jan 26, 2003)

True centers are dependent on their teammates stretching the floor with shooters and getting them the ball within the timing of the offense. 

Scoring guards are dependent on their teammates getting out of their way.

One is much easier for a team to accomplish. 

There are zero worries with Oden.


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## ROYisR.O.Y. (Apr 1, 2007)

does anyone realize that the blazers are the only team that even cares about SL.
"we had no good perimiter players"-well maybe thats because we are missing our best player and glue of the team.

in King James' first summer league game he had 10 fouls and 2 pts!!


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

Dude, I didn't expect 30 & 15. 15 & 15 might've been nice. But I would've been happy with 8 pts, 10 rebs, and 3 blks. That would've been underwhelming for a #1 pick against a summer league team, but it would've been a forgivable solid summer league debut. But what he did today? Horrible. As for Dwight Howard, I thought I read somewhere that he averaged 17 & 12 in his first summer league.


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

LeBron did not only have 2 pts in his summer league debut. Where did you get that info from?


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## SheedSoNasty (Dec 31, 2002)

Who exactly was bashing Oden?


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## Spoolie Gee (Feb 3, 2005)

NathanLane said:


> Dude, I didn't expect 30 & 15. 15 & 15 might've been nice. But I would've been happy with 8 pts, 10 rebs, and 3 blks. That would've been underwhelming for a #1 pick against a summer league team, but it would've been a forgivable solid summer league debut. But what he did today? Horrible. *As for Dwight Howard, I thought I read somewhere that he averaged 17 & 12 in his first summer league*.


That might be the case but Howard did play horrible in his first game. Same for Bargnani last year. Aldridge was owned by Steve Novak in the opener last summer.

I wish he played better too but one game doesnt mean anything.


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## yuyuza1 (May 24, 2006)

PJ Carlesimo said:


> "I happened to coach against Timmy in his first [summer-league] game," he said. "I was at Golden State. They got off the plane and we played them at Salt Lake City. Greg Ostertag outplayed Tim in a couple of those games."


He was referring to Durant's subpar game, but I think the same can be applied to Oden. 

Link.


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## Spoolie Gee (Feb 3, 2005)

Bo Outlaw had 40 points and 25 rebounds in a summer league game.


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

God, I hope Oden is better than Bargnani and Dwight Howard. Aren't we expecting more than that from Oden? He's supposed to be a once-in-a-generation dominant franchise-making center.


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

Spoolie Gee said:


> Bo Outlaw had 40 points and 25 rebounds in a summer league game.


Exactly. So what you're saying is that it's really easy to dominate summer league. Then what is Oden's problem??


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## Public Defender (May 5, 2003)

Maybe we should just close this thread. The only person appearing at all panic-stricken, from what I'm reading, is Mr. Lane. I think the subject has been abundantly flogged into submission: Greg Oden didn't do well in his first meaningless game for reasons that have only a little bit to do with how he might perform during the regular season for the Blazers. Ho hum. 

How about a little bit of recognition that the Blazers really only lost one quarter - and Aldridge was a monster?


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## Spoolie Gee (Feb 3, 2005)

NathanLane said:


> God, I hope Oden is better than Bargnani and Dwight Howard. Aren't we expecting more than that from Oden? He's supposed to be a once-in-a-generation dominant franchise-making center.


He's 19. Only Shaq and Wilt were physically ready to play at that age. Duncan got schooled by Greg Oystertag in summer league.

Summer

League

Means

Nothing


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## Samuel (Jan 1, 2003)

SheedSoNasty said:


> Who exactly was bashing Oden?


qft


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## Spoolie Gee (Feb 3, 2005)

NathanLane said:


> Exactly. So what you're saying is that it's really easy to dominate summer league. Then what is Oden's problem??


No, what I'm saying is you cant use Summer League to predict future success or failure. It means nothing.


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

Did Duncan really get schooled by Ostertag in summer league? I don't think so.

And I'm not panic-stricken. I'm just saying that I'm disappointed. And when he plays well, I'll be happy. I have high expectations for the guy. He's a number one pick!


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

Spoolie Gee said:


> No, what I'm saying is you cant use Summer League to predict future success or failure. It means nothing.


I think you can use it to predict future failure. If someone like Taurean Green bombs in summer league, his career in the NBA is pretty much over. If you can't play well in the easy league, how can you expect to get minutes in the big league?


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## Spoolie Gee (Feb 3, 2005)

NathanLane said:


> Did Duncan really get schooled by Ostertag in summer league? I don't think so.


Yes, he did.


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## c_note (Jan 30, 2007)

e_blazer1 said:


> Wow. Just frickin wow.


lol. well said.


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## alext42083 (Nov 7, 2003)

That's pretty pathetic if people are down on Oden after the FIRST summer league game. Puh-lease... give me a break.

If Oden comes out next game and gets 15 points, 10 boards or something respectable, the naysayers will jump back on the wagon.
I knew if Oden was going to have a bad game, there'd be people in an outrage over how overhyped he is. Ugh.. now THAT's terrible


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## c_note (Jan 30, 2007)

NathanLane said:


> Did Duncan really get schooled by Ostertag in summer league? I don't think so.
> 
> And I'm not panic-stricken. I'm just saying that I'm disappointed. And when he plays well, I'll be happy. I have high expectations for the guy. He's a number one pick!


I'm surprised...for someone with 2,400+ posts on a basketball forum, you seemingly know nothing about Greg Oden, young players, or just basketball in general.

Sure we were all a little disappointed he didnt come out and dominate, but there's not many of us who are gonna hop on the boards and start saying crap like "OMG he sucked, BUST!11!". I mean seriously, who out there actually watched that game, then considered the thought that he might possibly be a bust. I hope you were the only one.


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## SheedSoNasty (Dec 31, 2002)

alext42083 said:


> That's pretty pathetic if people are down on Oden after the FIRST summer league game. Puh-lease... give me a break.
> 
> If Oden comes out next game and gets 15 points, 10 boards or something respectable, the naysayers will jump back on the wagon.
> I knew if Oden was going to have a bad game, there'd be people in an outrage over how overhyped he is. Ugh.. now THAT's terrible


The thing is, some posters are acting like the whole board just blew up about Oden and want him gone or something... And yet I don't see many posts that point that out. So, I don't know what all the nonsense is. This thread shouldn't have even been started.


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## toutlaw25 (Aug 7, 2005)

I hate college basketball, so this was the first time I saw Oden play. He was atrocious. However, this was his first game in freaking summer league. Means absolutely nothing. I think if he had games like this the rest of summer league, I would be a little concerned. Regardeless, I know he'll bounce back next game. If he gets 30mins of playing time next game I predict at least 5 blocks . . . guaranteed.


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## gamadict (Jul 28, 2002)

It's not like Oden is some kid straight out of HS. He was the national defensive player of the year and a first-team All-American center as a true freshman. He killed against a better frontline then he faced tonight in the national title game and put up great stats for a freshman with a team that didn't especially go out of their way to feature him. If it was, say, Al Jefferson coming out of some small southern HS, I could understand freaking out. But Oden has a signifigant track record as a prospect


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

Well in 2002-2003, Eddy Curry, Tyson Chandler, Jay Williams, Jamal Crawford, and Marcus Fizer led a team to a 2-4 record, and they have all had great, successful, winning careers.

Eddy Curry = Playoffs once.
Tyson Chandler = Playoffs twice.
Jay Williams = Out of league, and never to playoffs.
Jamal Crawford = Never made the playoffs.
Marcus Fizer = Never made the playoffs, and out of the league.

You have to look for some signs though in summer league.

Like last year, Sefolosha was so impressive after two games, that the Bulls coaching staff sent him back to Chicago, because stealing the ball from the weak competition and playing Magic Johnson against scrubs wasn't going to do anything for him.

Tyrus Thomas played the entire week, and simply was one of the best players there. He was scoring in bunches, he had 22 against the Nets (got ejected in the third quarter for smacking Josh Boone on the ***). He was one of the leaders in rebounds and blocks in the camp. He showed the game changing ability that he did once the season started.

If Greg Oden doesn't start showing signs of anything, it definitely should be a cause for concern.

And no surprise my boy LaMarcus is lighting it up.


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## Mateo (Sep 23, 2006)

I disagree, I think people have a legitimate reason to be worried. Think about it like this: did Oden have a single college game as bad as this one? And this is only a small step up from the college competition. So either there are things to be worried about, or this is just a huge, huge coincidence.


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## Tortimer (Jun 4, 2007)

I have had season tickets since the 2nd year of the Blazers. I remember watching Bill Walton the first few games and he was strugggling and the people around me were complaining about him and wanting the backup center to play. I finally got mad and told everyone to just have patience and give him a chance. I told them we are not going to win with the other center and Walton was going to be a great center in this league and win us a championship someday. In a couple years when Walton was playing good all those fans that wanted to get rid of him acted like they were his biggest fans. It's going to be that same way with Oden. He is 19 has a sinus infection and needs to learn his new teamates and the NBA game. He is going to be a great player in a few years if we just have patience. I think even before this year is over he will be really good especially his defense. I still think LMA and Oden are going to be tough for other teams to score around the basket.


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## Yega1979 (Mar 22, 2003)

c_note said:


> I'm surprised...for someone with 2,400+ posts on a basketball forum, you seemingly know nothing about Greg Oden, young players, or just basketball in general.
> 
> Sure we were all a little disappointed he didnt come out and dominate, but there's not many of us who are gonna hop on the boards and start saying crap like "OMG he sucked, BUST!11!". I mean seriously, who out there actually watched that game, then considered the thought that he might possibly be a bust. I hope you were the only one.


Being disappointed at Oden's 1st game = not knowing anything about basketball. :lol: I love these golden nuggets of logic you can find on these boards.


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## Entity (Feb 21, 2005)

I'm not worried. People were calling LaMarcus a bust until the second half of the season rolled around and he started putting up impressive numbers and playing like a professional. GO's 19, I'm going to give him some time. There'll be plenty of time this season for him to show flashes of brilliance. I think he just needs to have a good streak of games before he realizes that he really belongs at this level and that he can dominate.


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## crowTrobot (Jun 24, 2005)

Entity said:


> I'm not worried. People were calling LaMarcus a bust until the second half of the season rolled around and he started putting up impressive numbers and playing like a professional. GO's 19, I'm going to give him some time. There'll be plenty of time this season for him to show flashes of brilliance. I think he just needs to have a good streak of games before he realizes that he really belongs at this level and that he can dominate.



i agree on oden, but i don't recall anybody here ever calling aldridge a bust.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

I think it's almost like clockwork that we have people already pulling the "well, fans turned on sheed, and now that Zach is gone, they'll turn on Oden" line. 

Maybe if Rasheed or Zach actually weren't dumb ****'s, fans wouldnt have gotten tired of them.


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## alext42083 (Nov 7, 2003)

SheedSoNasty said:


> The thing is, some posters are acting like the whole board just blew up about Oden and want him gone or something... And yet I don't see many posts that point that out. So, I don't know what all the nonsense is. This thread shouldn't have even been started.


I'm not saying the whole board was turning on him, but you can see a few people are starting to worry about Oden's ability after _the first summer league game_.
Oden will not be a bust.


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## YardApe (Mar 10, 2005)

There should be a penalty clause in posting bashing statements. If Oden comes out next game and gives us a double/double, Nathan Lane and company need to post retraction threads and admit to being wrong. 

Oden will be fine, there is no worries!


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## SodaPopinski (Aug 10, 2004)

Mateo said:


> Think about it like this: did Oden have a single college game as bad as this one?


Actually, yes, he did. He had quite a few games that were sub-par. 7 points at Florida. 7 points at Illinois. 5 points at home against Northwestern. 9 points at Purdue. 9 points in the tourney vs. Tennessee.

Based on his practice with the Blazers before the draft, based on his illness, based on the fact that he hasn't been able to practice with everything that's been going on leading up to the draft, if you didn't see this coming you weren't paying attention. He'll get there. It's just going to take a few games for him.

Trust me. Later this season you're going to laugh at yourself for questioning this guy after his first summer league game.

-Pop


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

I think Oden needs to correct some things defensively, didnt see the game but 10 fouls isnt good. I thought in college he tended to lean too much and with his size couldnt stop his momentum. I think he needs to slide his feet better. He is going to be fine, think anyone around the league wouldnt jump all over him this morning? As for him being a once in a generation type player i think they're coming along once every few years because of hype. Just my take.


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## B_&_B (Feb 19, 2004)

:lol:

Ya, lets trade Oden, Roy, and Aldridge and start rebuilding again.

:lol:


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## Masbee (Dec 31, 2002)

*Re: Chill out on the "Oden a disappointment" crap*



Todd said:


> The whole board set themselves up by getting sucked into the hype machine. Everything will be just fine but we are going to loose quite a few games for a while.


The "whole" board?

I don't think so. I and a handful of others tried to spread some reason.

If so many didn't take head, that's their problem.

I resent being lumped in with that bunch just because they were "noisy". They don't speak for me.


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## Mateo (Sep 23, 2006)

SodaPopinski said:


> Actually, yes, he did. He had quite a few games that were sub-par. 7 points at Florida. 7 points at Illinois. 5 points at home against Northwestern. 9 points at Purdue. 9 points in the tourney vs. Tennessee.


So.. you found a handful of games where he was almost as bad scoring... leaving out facts such as the 15 rebounds he had in that Illinois games or the 5 blocks against Northwestern. A couple of those games at least come close to matching the complete lack of production in the Boston game, but none seem to match the lack of production _and_ the negative stats as well (the 4 turnovers and 10 fouls). So it appears that this was, in fact, one of if not the worst game of his career.




> Based on his practice with the Blazers before the draft, based on his illness, based on the fact that he hasn't been able to practice with everything that's been going on leading up to the draft, if you didn't see this coming you weren't paying attention. He'll get there. It's just going to take a few games for him.


Oh please, don't pretend to be a genius based on ex post facto predictions..



> Trust me. Later this season you're going to laugh at yourself for questioning this guy after his first summer league game.
> 
> -Pop


Questioning what? That he had one of the very worst games of his career the first time he played against marginal NBA talent? There's no question there, *it actually happened*.


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## Oldmangrouch (Feb 11, 2003)

Hap said:


> I think it's almost like clockwork that we have people already pulling the "well, fans turned on sheed, and now that Zach is gone, they'll turn on Oden" line.
> 
> Maybe if Rasheed or Zach actually weren't dumb ****'s, fans wouldnt have gotten tired of them.


Phooey.

When Mike Schuler was coach, there was a concerted effort by the local media to run Clyde out of town. Then there was the campaign against Kiki. It got so viscious, Dwight Jaynes was writing articles ripping on Kiki's *family*. Before that, it was Jim Paxson.

In any of those cases, can you honestly claim that the fans and media turned on the player for being "dumb****s" ???


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## Anonymous Gambler (May 29, 2006)

Mateo said:


> So.. you found a handful of games where he was almost as bad scoring... leaving out facts such as the 15 rebounds he had in that Illinois games or the 5 blocks against Northwestern. A couple of those games at least come close to matching the complete lack of production in the Boston game, but none seem to match the lack of production _and_ the negative stats as well (the 4 turnovers and 10 fouls). So it appears that this was, in fact, one of if not the worst game of his career.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Bad games happen. Very bad sign- I agree. But, let's see how he does in the upcoming games. 

Somehow I don't think it's over yet...


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## blakeback (Jun 29, 2006)

sometimes forums like this don't seem real, they're like a single-player online simulated forum game. 

they seem to usually be set up to have a certain % of computer-generated posts that are extreme simulated-emotional (or, "simotional") reactions to one game. or one player's performance in one game. or a trade rumor, or a fake trade rumor. the A.I. uses emotional 'reactors' against each other to quickly build up threads and post counts. they are probably only connected to the basketball knowledge database by stats and by the most recent history of the team, so the cpu usage remains moderate and gameplay is mostly smooth (sometimes gets shaky if there are more than 200 "users" connected at once).

when I saw in the oregonian that GO fouled out, I knew pretty much exactly what this forum game would be like today. sometimes it comes up with some pretty funny stuff. i like how there are often threads (and/or polls) started about other threads- one might think that the best place to discuss a thread would be the thread itself, but that is not the case sometimes. a seperate thread allows for abstract thoughts and opinions than cannot exist within the reality (lol) of the original (double lol) thread. inconceivable. 


anyway, I hope that by referring to the game in this post within the game, I will unlock the next level of the game.


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## Draco (Jun 28, 2003)

Oldmangrouch said:


> Phooey.
> 
> When Mike Schuler was coach, there was a concerted effort by the local media to run Clyde out of town. Then there was the campaign against Kiki. It got so viscious, Dwight Jaynes was writing articles ripping on Kiki's *family*. Before that, it was Jim Paxson.
> 
> In any of those cases, can you honestly claim that the fans and media turned on the player for being "dumb****s" ???


We got a lot of fans that love the "backup quarterback". As soon as one of our young bench guys shows some promise everyone looks over their deficiencies and focuses on their positives believing they'll be one of the better starters in the NBA. A few years down the line some of those fans seem to be shocked that said player has major deficiencies in their game and wants them gone at any cost; as there is a new young guy being overlooked for his deficiencies that needs the veteran out of the way. 

Damon was loved dearly his first year here even with his struggles and poor shooting during our first round playoff loss. Jack is getting some wrath already. Sergio could be the scapegoat in a few years with sub-Damon defense. I doubt everyone will be a supporter of Roy/Aldridge/Oden down the line. Maybe Roy will be ripped on for not dumping the ball down low to our twin towers, maybe he will force too many shots. Aldridge won't go down low and demand shots on the low block or bang physically with other bigs just like people said of Rasheed. Oden will be a black hole on offense throwing up his little hook shots at a lower FG% than other players, to go along with his bad FT%.

I'm not sure if there is the same mentality across the NBA but I've definitely come to notice it in Portland. Chad Ford had some good comments on a related subject. The biggest inefficiencies he saw in the NBA is general managers overvaluing their own youths value, their own young talent, and undervaluing other teams. Seems to be the case with a lot of fans too.


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## alext42083 (Nov 7, 2003)

Draco said:


> I'm not sure if there is the same mentality across the NBA but I've definitely come to notice it in Portland. Chad Ford had some good comments on a related subject. The biggest inefficiencies he saw in the NBA is general managers overvaluing their own youths value, their own young talent, and undervaluing other teams. Seems to be the case with a lot of fans too.


Good post.
Although I do think it happens at a lot of other places, I worry about some fans' sanity when they do more criticizing rather than enjoying what we have and what we will have.
I sure hope fans don't get turned off by the Oden/Aldridge/Roy trio this season if they go 40-42 or something this season and miss the playoffs.


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## Todd (Oct 8, 2003)

*Re: Chill out on the "Oden a disappointment" crap*



Masbee said:


> The "whole" board?
> 
> I don't think so. I and a handful of others tried to spread some reason.
> 
> ...



Ok, the "noisy" bunch on the board.:cheers:


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## Todd (Oct 8, 2003)

B_&_B said:


> :lol:
> 
> Ya, lets trade Oden, Roy, and Aldridge and start rebuilding again.
> 
> :lol:


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## SheedSoNasty (Dec 31, 2002)

Mebarak said:


> Well in 2002-2003, Eddy Curry, Tyson Chandler, Jay Williams, Jamal Crawford, and Marcus Fizer led a team to a 2-4 record, and they have all had great, successful, winning careers.
> 
> Eddy Curry = Playoffs once.
> Tyson Chandler = Playoffs twice.
> ...


Coming from a small sample size from just Bulls games doesn't cut it. Plus, the fact that you compare Thabo Sefolosha to Magic Johnson is... well... I don't even have words for it.


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## SheedSoNasty (Dec 31, 2002)

*Re: Chill out on the "Oden a disappointment" crap*



Masbee said:


> The "whole" board?
> 
> I don't think so. I and a handful of others tried to spread some reason.
> 
> ...


QFT


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## GOD (Jun 22, 2003)

Greg had a bad game, but it's just summer league and I saw a lot of things that should change in the future. 

First, of his 10 fouls, 2 should have been non-calls and 2 -3 should have gone the other way. The reffing was bad. But even 5-6 fouls is too much, and bad calls come in season play also. But there are a couple things that Oden can work on with the coaches to help limit his fouling. 

1) Trust Aldridge. Oden has never played with a great defensive PF next to him, and a little trust that he does not need to stop every shot, just slow the progress to the rim and/or alter the shot so Aldridge can back him will be enough. Sure, he won't have as many 6 blks per game nights, but in the end it will really stop inside play against the Blazers. 

2) Oden seemed a little out of shape. This is just a matter of time and hard work and getting rid of his sinus problem. I have no doubt that in 2 months he will be in excellent shape.

3) Oden would fold into players when blocking instead of staying upright. This is a fairly easy thing to correct over the course of a season. Even if the block is clean, if the defensive player folds his arms forward at the end of the play, the refs often call a foul.

4) Oden jumped a little too often when a player was coming right at him instead of holding his ground or moving laterally. This will take time because it's hard to learn, but his footwork is so sweet in other moments that I think Oden will not have a hard time with this in the long run.


Then there are a lot of other parts of his game that were hampered by the team play. The guards were not knocking anything down, and from the onset of the game, Oden was being double-teamed. With Roy, Jack and James Jones spreading the floor, I expect Oden to have a lot more spacing. There were no sets to follow and rotation was a joke, but that’s summer league. 



Now, I am much more disappointed in Sergio. He played real poor and does not have the same excuses that Oden does. I was hoping that Sergio would take the starting spot at some point this year, but he has a lot of work to do.


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## ASDQWE (May 31, 2007)

It's better to have bad games now than in the regular season. I actually think it's a good thing he had this bad game, just so Oden will learn the things he'll have to work on.


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## Samuel (Jan 1, 2003)

SodaPopinski said:


> Trust me. Later this season you're going to laugh at yourself for questioning this guy after his first summer league game.


Who exactly are you referring to? I think you're the one who needs to 'chill out'... I don't get the sense that many people (if any) on here are disappointed about yesterday.


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## Ukrainefan (Aug 1, 2003)

I hope that Oden can come out in our next game and play with more focus, intensity and and intelligence; I hope he can quiet the doubters and reassure those of us on the fence. I think a great player really needs to come out and make a statement after a game like that. I don't mean he needs to score 20 points but I think he needs to play some strong disciplined defense and bring in at least 8-9 rebounds. Some may say we need to wait a lot longer, but I think we will learn a lot about Greg Oden in this upcoming game, one way or the other.


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

c_note said:


> I'm surprised...for someone with 2,400+ posts on a basketball forum, you seemingly know nothing about Greg Oden, young players, or just basketball in general.
> 
> Sure we were all a little disappointed he didnt come out and dominate, but there's not many of us who are gonna hop on the boards and start saying crap like "OMG he sucked, BUST!11!". I mean seriously, who out there actually watched that game, then considered the thought that he might possibly be a bust. I hope you were the only one.


Dude. Calm down. I'm just disappointed like you are. I hope he has a great career and leads us to championships. I'm on the bandwagon the whole way.


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

YardApe said:


> There should be a penalty clause in posting bashing statements. If Oden comes out next game and gives us a double/double, Nathan Lane and company need to post retraction threads and admit to being wrong.
> 
> Oden will be fine, there is no worries!


Admit to being wrong? I hope he plays great next game. I expect the best out of him.


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

Let's not make this some sort of competition between Blazer fans. I'm on your guys' side. I'm on the Blazers' side and on Oden's side.

Go Blazers


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

SheedSoNasty said:


> Who exactly was bashing Oden?


Exactly. No one.


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## Mateo (Sep 23, 2006)

Ok, so if game 1 was "horrible" then game 2 was merely "bad". I guess we can expect game 3 to be "so-so" and finally a good game in game 4.


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## hasoos (Jan 3, 2003)

I don't think his game 2 was bad at all. In a normal NBA game half of those fouls would not have been called, and in fact there were 3 that shouldn't have been called at all, even in a summer league game by rookie refs. He did fine, and is showing that he is adjusting to the speed of the game. The rest of his performance was good. I expect next game for him to continue to improve.


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## Mateo (Sep 23, 2006)

... that was a bad game, by any reasonable measure. He scored all right, and he did block well (he attempts blocks all the time). But everything else he was bad at; some things he was VERY bad at. Such as his 1/4 assist-turnover ratio. Or his 5 rebounds in 27 minutes. Or his 9 fouls. That was a bad game, if we're going to have realistic standards for NBA players.


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## Tortimer (Jun 4, 2007)

Mateo said:


> Ok, so if game 1 was "horrible" then game 2 was merely "bad". I guess we can expect game 3 to be "so-so" and finally a good game in game 4.


Did you even watch the game Oden didn't have a bad game. He can do a lot better but had a decent second game and had a lot of positive things today. He didn't make all those fouls. I even think the stats guy missed a couple rebounds. He didn't have that many touches and had 13 points and a couple good moves one in the 1st half and another in the 2nd. He had 4 Blks and a couple were pretty good. His FT's were bad again but he shot almost 70% with his left hand in college and will be 70% plus FT in his career. Have to be patience and Oden will get better almost every game.


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## Tortimer (Jun 4, 2007)

Mateo said:


> ... that was a bad game, by any reasonable measure. He scored all right, and he did block well (he attempts blocks all the time). But everything else he was bad at; some things he was VERY bad at. Such as his 1/4 assist-turnover ratio. Or his 5 rebounds in 27 minutes. Or his 9 fouls. That was a bad game, if we're going to have realistic standards for NBA players.


Again Oden's second game is was not bad. I think the guards could have gotten the ball to him at least a couple more times. You must of wanted Durant or just didn't watch the game.


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## Mateo (Sep 23, 2006)

Whether you agree with the calls is irrelevant; they got called and Oden didn't adjust. If Diop, a scrub, can avoid getting 9 fouls then so should Oden. Fouls hurt your team; by picking up lots of fouls Oden was hurting his team (in that respect). It was a bad game, that's pretty undeniable. The fact that he wasn't bad in every aspect doesn't prevent this from being a bad game; the awful assist/turnover and fouls and the lack of production on the boards overwhelms the 2 positive contributions he made (scoring and blocking).


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## Tortimer (Jun 4, 2007)

Mateo said:


> Whether you agree with the calls is irrelevant; they got called and Oden didn't adjust. If Diop, a scrub, can avoid getting 9 fouls then so should Oden. Fouls hurt your team; by picking up lots of fouls Oden was hurting his team (in that respect). It was a bad game, that's pretty undeniable. The fact that he wasn't bad in every aspect doesn't prevent this from being a bad game; the awful assist/turnover and fouls and the lack of production on the boards overwhelms the 2 positive contributions he made (scoring and blocking).



Diop didn't try to block that many shots. I agree he does need to work on cutting down on fouls but that is what sunner league and pre-season is for. He is going to have fouls problems but not as bad as it is right now. He will get use to the calls but right now these refs are not that great on some of those calls IMO.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

Oden looks like he will be in for a LONG rookie year. The guy is a fouling machine (you can make excuses about how those aren't fouls, but they are. They called some of those "They should have let those go" fouls on Tyrus Thomas all year, up until the end.). But Oden isn't quite the same, he has more of a penchant for fouling. He reminds me A LOT of the young Tyson Chandler and Eddy Curry's with his fouling problem, only he is worse. He isn't polished by any stretch of the imagination. He looks like he is quite a bit of a project still on both ends of the court. He's definitely not going to come into the league like Shaq or Duncan, not even Yao Ming level. Whats he going to do when he has to guard foul magnets like Ty Thomas, Chris Bosh, Dirk, Eddy Curry, D-Ho, Yao? 

I think to expect out of Oden is 8.7 PPG 5.6 RPG 1.4 BPG in about 23.4 MPG. You better damn hope this guy develops.


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## Talkhard (May 13, 2003)

Mebarak said:


> You better damn hope this guy develops.


He will.


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## Tortimer (Jun 4, 2007)

Mebarak said:


> Oden looks like he will be in for a LONG rookie year. The guy is a fouling machine (you can make excuses about how those aren't fouls, but they are. They called some of those "They should have let those go" fouls on Tyrus Thomas all year, up until the end.). But Oden isn't quite the same, he has more of a penchant for fouling. He reminds me A LOT of the young Tyson Chandler and Eddy Curry's with his fouling problem, only he is worse. He isn't polished by any stretch of the imagination. He looks like he is quite a bit of a project still on both ends of the court. He's definitely not going to come into the league like Shaq or Duncan, not even Yao Ming level. Whats he going to do when he has to guard foul magnets like Ty Thomas, Chris Bosh, Dirk, Eddy Curry, D-Ho, Yao?
> 
> I think to expect out of Oden is 8.7 PPG 5.6 RPG 1.4 BPG in about 23.4 MPG. You better damn hope this guy develops.


Get real! Oden will avg 12-14PPG 10-12 RPG 3-4 BPG in about 32MPG. He is foul prone but will learn and some of those fouls especially today were not fouls.


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## yuyuza1 (May 24, 2006)

Mebarak said:


> Oden looks like he will be in for a LONG rookie year. The guy is a fouling machine (you can make excuses about how those aren't fouls, but they are. They called some of those "They should have let those go" fouls on Tyrus Thomas all year, up until the end.). But Oden isn't quite the same, he has more of a penchant for fouling. He reminds me A LOT of the young Tyson Chandler and Eddy Curry's with his fouling problem, only he is worse. He isn't polished by any stretch of the imagination. He looks like he is quite a bit of a project still on both ends of the court. He's definitely not going to come into the league like Shaq or Duncan, not even Yao Ming level. Whats he going to do when he has to guard foul magnets like Ty Thomas, Chris Bosh, Dirk, Eddy Curry, D-Ho, Yao?
> 
> I think to expect out of Oden is 8.7 PPG 5.6 RPG 1.4 BPG in about 23.4 MPG. You better damn hope this guy develops.



:lol: I don't even want to ask about how you came up with these decimal values, but you pretty much lost credibility when you *****ed at Roy for not playing in the summer league. :lol:


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## dudleysghost (Mar 24, 2006)

The people complaining about "bashing" seem a lot more emotional than the ones supposedly doing it. Why do you guys feel the need to tell people not to say they were disappointed with Oden's first not-so-good games? What's with the insecurity? It's a message board, ffs.


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## Oldmangrouch (Feb 11, 2003)

dudleysghost said:


> The people complaining about "bashing" seem a lot more emotional than the ones supposedly doing it. Why do you guys feel the need to tell people not to say they were disappointed with Oden's first not-so-good games? What's with the insecurity? It's a message board, ffs.



Fair enough. I'll promise to keep quiet for now......but I reserve the right to say "I told ya so!" down the road. :biggrin: 

Between the Portland fans with unrealistic expectations, and the lingering bitterness some people feel over Oden landing in Portland, I expect things to get MUCH worse. :sadbanana:


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## Verro (Jul 4, 2005)

Mebarak said:


> I think to expect out of Oden is 8.7 PPG 5.6 RPG 1.4 BPG in about 23.4 MPG.


Actually I don't think these numbers are too far off, after watching him in college I was saying he'd put up 11/6 in his rookie year, his SL performance hasn't changed that. He has a lot of things to work on, his first year will be quite a transition. But he'll see a significant improvement over his first 3 seasons and become a very good player.


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## Tortimer (Jun 4, 2007)

dudleysghost said:


> The people complaining about "bashing" seem a lot more emotional than the ones supposedly doing it. Why do you guys feel the need to tell people not to say they were disappointed with Oden's first not-so-good games? What's with the insecurity? It's a message board, ffs.



I don't mind people saying there are disappointed but flat out trolling is something else. Those are the ones that drive me crazy. You are right though I will need to get over it because there are going to be many fans that have no patience and trolls from other teams. Many of the other great centers played a full 4 years in college and were more ready for the NBA then Oden. I do remember though the first few months with Bill Walton many of the season ticket holders around me were complaining and wanting the backup playing. I think it was Larue Martin but I can't remember for sure. I told many of them they better get behind Walton if they ever wanted a winner. Those same fans(season ticket holders) were acting like they always loved Walton once we started winning. So, for all the Blazers fans just have patience and Oden is going to be a great center. It may take a couple more years then Walton because he is only 19 with one year of college.


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## Tortimer (Jun 4, 2007)

Verro said:


> Actually I don't think these numbers are too far off, after watching him in college I was saying he'd put up 11/6 in his rookie year, his SL performance hasn't changed that. He has a lot of things to work on, his first year will be quite a transition. But he'll see a significant improvement over his first 3 seasons and become a very good player.



I really think Oden's numbers will be decent but some people will still be disappointed. I'm guessing he will get a lot better as the year goes on. 

My guess would be 12-14 PPG 10-12 RBG 3-4 BPG 30-32 Minutes per game. Those are really pretty good numbers for a first year center at age 19. He will have foul trouble but not as bad as he has so far in SL.


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## PapaG (Oct 4, 2004)

Mebarak said:


> Oden looks like he will be in for a LONG rookie year. The guy is a fouling machine (you can make excuses about how those aren't fouls, but they are. They called some of those "They should have let those go" fouls on Tyrus Thomas all year, up until the end.). But Oden isn't quite the same, he has more of a penchant for fouling. He reminds me A LOT of the young Tyson Chandler and Eddy Curry's with his fouling problem, only he is worse. He isn't polished by any stretch of the imagination. *He looks like he is quite a bit of a project still on both ends of the court. * He's definitely not going to come into the league like Shaq or Duncan, not even Yao Ming level. Whats he going to do when he has to guard foul magnets like Ty Thomas, Chris Bosh, Dirk, Eddy Curry, D-Ho, Yao?
> 
> I think to expect out of Oden is 8.7 PPG 5.6 RPG 1.4 BPG in about 23.4 MPG. You better damn hope this guy develops.


He put up 25/12 on two lottery picks in the NCAA championship game.

:lol: 

Derrrrrrrrrrr


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## PapaG (Oct 4, 2004)

Tortimer said:


> I really think Oden's numbers will be decent but some people will still be disappointed. I'm guessing he will get a lot better as the year goes on.
> 
> My guess would be 12-14 PPG 10-12 RBG 3-4 BPG 30-32 Minutes per game. Those are relly pretty good numbers for a first year center at age 19. He will have foul trouble but not as bad as he has so far in SL.


I expect 13 pts/8 rebs/ 2.5 blocks in the rookie year at about 28 minutes.


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## Tooeasy (Nov 4, 2003)

Tortimer said:


> 3-4 BPG 30-32 Minutes per game.


trivia time... care to tell me the last time ANYONE in the league has averaged 4 bpg in a season? hint, hakeem olajuwon only perfomed this feat twice, and david robinson once in their careers.... and shaq, JON , and duncan have never accomplished it.


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## Public Defender (May 5, 2003)

Oden's productivity is going to depend greatly on two things: 

1.) How well he stays out of foul trouble. 

2.) How Portland's guards do in getting him the ball in places he can score (and how well they shoot, so that getting him the ball isn't impossible).


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## TLo (Dec 27, 2006)

Oden will do very well this year. He will be somewhat limited by foul trouble, but that is to be expected from a rookie big man. He'll be playing much better once he recovers from his tonsilectomy procedure.


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## Tortimer (Jun 4, 2007)

Tooeasy said:


> trivia time... care to tell me the last time ANYONE in the league has averaged 4 bpg in a season? hint, hakeem olajuwon only perfomed this feat twice, and david robinson once in their careers.... and shaq, JON , and duncan have never accomplished it.



I do think blocks will be the strongest part of Oden game his first couple years. I also think he will avg at least 3+ BPG and have a good chance to lead the league or at least be in the top 3 4 players in blocks. This will also be how he gets in a lot of foul trouble.


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## Ruff Draft (Nov 21, 2004)

I have faith because he's Greg "effing" Oden, but he is out of control with those fouls.


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## barfo (Jan 2, 2003)

XMATTHEWX said:


> I have faith because he's Greg "effing" Oden, but he is out of control with those fouls.


Not at all. You have to pay attention to the trend. 10 fouls last game, 9 this game. If things continue in this fashion, he'll be down to zero fouls by the end of preseason. Nothing to worry about.

barfo


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## Blazer Freak (Jul 11, 2004)

A BIG reason people haven't really said anything about is the inability of our guards to get the ball inside to him. Sergio/Taurean are not very good passers into the post, and are too busy trying to make themselves look good and get PT/make the team then get their passes to Greg. 

Watching the games in person, I counted atleast 5 times in the first game where a pass to Oden was tipped away before it got to him. With Jack and Roy starting with him during the season he will be in a much better position to score.

13/10/2.5 is my prediction, with his best case as 15/11/3.


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## Yao Mania (Aug 4, 2003)

*Re: Chill out on the "Oden a disappointment" crap*



Spoolie Gee said:


> Dwight Howard was like 1-12 in his first SL game.


And here are stats to some of Yao Ming's first few games:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/IND20021030.html
NBA debut - 0pts, 2rebs, 2TOs, 3PFs in 11mins

4th game - 0pts, 3rebs, 1TO, 4PFs in 15mins


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

yuyuza1 said:


> :lol: I don't even want to ask about how you came up with these decimal values, but you pretty much lost credibility when you *****ed at Roy for not playing in the summer league. :lol:


It's funnier that he listed Tyrus Thomas in the same class as Bosh, Nowitzki, Howard and Yao. First, no less.


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## crandc (Sep 15, 2004)

Blazer Freak touched on the guard situation. Remember, please, Oden played with the same point guard for eight years. After all that time they have an instinctive "feel" for each other. Think StocktontoMalone. Put Oden with Steve Nash and he'd have to make adjustments. 

I'm not worried. We all know he has the skill and the size and the desire. 

But it's odd; for a year I heard how Sergio should be starting, now I hear Phoenix let the Blazers have him because he sucks.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

crandc said:


> But it's odd; for a year I heard how Sergio should be starting, now I hear Phoenix let the Blazers have him because he sucks.


pretty crazy, aint it?


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