# A new bet to the Haters



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

When The Pistons are up on the Pacers, Ill wear whatever avatar you want, and whatever sig. Same goes to you though. I want a chalenge now, not in 5 months. Lets make the bet boys.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Who are these infamous haters? Your team is in first place. Are you concocting stories up so that you can feel that the Pacers aren't being respected? They are very much respected by fans of other NBA teams (even the Pistons).


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## jvanbusk (Jun 9, 2002)

There is absolutely no reason why we can't discuss our teams and be civil without this BS.


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## PacersguyUSA (Sep 1, 2002)

You mean whenever the Pacers are in first vs. whenever the Pistons are in 1st?


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Yea, no one seems to think its a very good idea though.


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## jvanbusk (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>R-Star</b>!
> Yea, no one seems to think its a very good idea though.


I think there is a more mature way of asking for a little bet than calling people 'Haters'.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>jvanbusk</b>!
> 
> 
> I think there is a more mature way of asking for a little bet than calling people 'Haters'.


Well I dont know if thats true, when some people make it out that we should be very happy if we go 2-3 on the current road trip.


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## jvanbusk (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>R-Star</b>!
> 
> 
> Well I dont know if thats true, when some people make it out that we should be very happy if we go 2-3 on the current road trip.


Yes I predicted a 2-3 record, but never did I say that you should be happy with that. I don't appreciate you changing my words. Go back and check the posts. There wasn't one thing that I said that deserved your labeling of hater status. Road trips against Western Conference teams are not easy to negotiate. I'd say the same thing about the Pistons too. You shouldn't expect to go and play the upper echelon of teams and come out with a 5-0 or 4-1 record. If you do, you're setting yourself up for almost certain failure.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>jvanbusk</b>!
> 
> 
> Yes I predicted a 2-3 record, but never did I say that you should be happy with that. I don't appreciate you changing my words. Go back and check the posts. There wasn't one thing that I said that deserved your labeling of hater status. Road trips against Western Conference teams are not easy to negotiate. I'd say the same thing about the Pistons too. You shouldn't expect to go and play the upper echelon of teams and come out with a 5-0 or 4-1 record. If you do, you're setting yourself up for almost certain failure.


Your also putting words in my mouth. I said I expected to go 3-2 on the Westcoast trip.


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## jvanbusk (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>R-Star</b>!
> 
> 
> Your also putting words in my mouth. I said I expected to go 3-2 on the Westcoast trip.


So one less win has you calling me a hater?


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>jvanbusk</b>!
> 
> 
> Yes I predicted a 2-3 record, but never did I say that you should be happy with that. I don't appreciate you changing my words. Go back and check the posts. There wasn't one thing that I said that deserved your labeling of hater status. Road trips against Western Conference teams are not easy to negotiate. I'd say the same thing about the Pistons too. You shouldn't expect to go and play the upper echelon of teams and come out with a 5-0 or 4-1 record. If you do, you're setting yourself up for almost certain failure.


I think he meant this posted by Brian 


> If I were you I would be happy with 3 wins but expect 2.


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## jvanbusk (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Pacers Fan</b>!
> 
> 
> I think he meant this posted by Brian


1. He didn't call Brian a hater in the other thread. In fact, he states that "Props to Detbnyce and Brian for not comming across as haters"

2. Brian did not say that you should be happy with a 2-3 record. "I would be happy with 3 wins"

So that makes absolutely no sense.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>jvanbusk</b>!
> 
> 
> 1. He didn't call Brian a hater in the other thread. In fact, he states that "Props to Detbnyce and Brian for not comming across as haters"
> ...


jvan your right, this post was for you. The others at least gave us some props. You came in and just said, a 2-3 win should be expected, even if your right, it looks pretty haterish to us. You've never said much good about our team, and have always acted like we're on a lucky streak. Detbnyce and Brian at least gave us some props. If your not a hater, sorry jvan, but you sound like a rabid hated to me.


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## jvanbusk (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>R-Star</b>!
> 
> 
> jvan your right, this post was for you. The others at least gave us some props. You came in and just said, a 2-3 win should be expected, even if your right, it looks pretty haterish to us. You've never said much good about our team, and have always acted like we're on a lucky streak. Detbnyce and Brian at least gave us some props. If your not a hater, sorry jvan, but you sound like a rabid hated to me.


And that's immature. Starting an entire thread directed at me because you have this notion that I 'hate' on your team. 

Do you want me to agree that Jamaal Tinsley is a top 10 point guard? Because when I see that, I'm going to respond and say what I think.

Same with a Western Conference road trip being easy victories. That's not being a hater saying 2-3 as a predicted record. That's just being realistic.

I have given props to the Pacers team many times, and you were one of the few Pacers posters I actually respected R-Star because you for the most part avoided the childish behavior. But, while my opinion of the Pacers doesn't change (they are a very good team), my opinion of you as a poster does change.


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## jvanbusk (Jun 9, 2002)

And I apologize if my words seem a little harsh, I'm just calling it as I see it right now.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>jvanbusk</b>!
> 
> 
> And that's immature. Starting an entire thread directed at me because you have this notion that I 'hate' on your team.
> ...


I have never agreed with the whole Jamal Tinsley top 10 pg thing. I did give him more credit than he deserved though, since the guy isnt even playing. I'll admit, I may have been abit childish here on this post, so for that Ill appologize. I still think we'll go 3-2 on the road trip like I predicted, but it looks as though you have a good chance of being right about the 2-3 record you predicted. 

Anyways, I get a little caught up in the Pacer-Pistons rivalry we've forged on the board. For the most part, its fun and probably one of my favorite things about comming here, but when its taken overboard it does get childish. Ill look to stay away from that in the future.


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## PacersguyUSA (Sep 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>jvanbusk</b>!
> 
> 
> And that's immature. Starting an entire thread directed at me because you have this notion that I 'hate' on your team.
> ...


I thought I convinced you that Tinsley was a top 10 point guard last year?


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>PacersguyUSA</b>!
> 
> 
> I thought I convinced you that Tinsley was a top 10 point guard last year?


Hes one of the top pure points, and I still belive that even with him sitting. But theres so many good scoring guards out there who are more valuable than him IMO. If Im looking for a pure distributor, Tinsleys my pick.


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## jvanbusk (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>PacersguyUSA</b>!
> 
> 
> I thought I convinced you that Tinsley was a top 10 point guard last year?


No.  

If you used the same logic to prove that humans have two hands I'd question that because it was the ABSOLUTE WORST logic that I have ever seen, not only on basketballboards.net but any message board that I have ever posted on or viewed.

And this isn't the point, so drop it.


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## jvanbusk (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>R-Star</b>!
> 
> 
> I have never agreed with the whole Jamal Tinsley top 10 pg thing. I did give him more credit than he deserved though, since the guy isnt even playing. I'll admit, I may have been abit childish here on this post, so for that Ill appologize. I still think we'll go 3-2 on the road trip like I predicted, but it looks as though you have a good chance of being right about the 2-3 record you predicted.
> ...


I brought up the Tinsley thing, because that's one of the few things I've argued on this board. That and Scot Pollard being an absolute bum. Other than that the Pacers are a very good team with a very good coach (Not the best in either category, but very good nonetheless).


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>jvanbusk</b>!
> 
> 
> I brought up the Tinsley thing, because that's one of the few things I've argued on this site. That and Scot Pollard is an absolute bum. Other than that the Pacers are a very good team with a very good coach (Not the best in either category, but very good nonetheless).


I should have listened to you guys about Scot. I realy had high hopes for that guy. I thought he would be getting 10 rebounds a game. Turns out hes nothing but a bench warming nobody.


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## TLR (May 28, 2003)

You guys take this **** way too seriously.


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## jvanbusk (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>TLR</b>!
> You guys take this **** way too seriously.


And what " **** " are you referring to?


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## TLR (May 28, 2003)

This whole back and forth and making bets ****. I've been guilty of it in the past. But it's gettin kind of old to me.


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## jvanbusk (Jun 9, 2002)

I can agree with that.


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## PacersguyUSA (Sep 1, 2002)

I knew Pollard would be crap from the beginning. Changing conferences doesn't do that much.

I still don't understand how the logic I used when arguing for Tinsley was bad. I think you are just focusing on the top 10 point guard thread and not the DNP-Coaches decision thread. In the DNP I proved wrong all your arguments. Tinsley was not only had a little better Turnover average than the point guards 'supposedly better than Tinsley' but a lot better. I even gave a link. Sorry, I though I convinced you because you had nothing to come back with. And I don't really feel like dropping it because it is one of my favorite arguments, and you started it anyway.


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## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>PacersguyUSA</b>!
> I knew Pollard would be crap from the beginning. Changing conferences doesn't do that much.
> 
> I still don't understand how the logic I used when arguing for Tinsley was bad. I think you are just focusing on the top 10 point guard thread and not the DNP-Coaches decision thread. In the DNP I proved wrong all your arguments. Tinsley was not only had a little better Turnover average than the point guards 'supposedly better than Tinsley' but a lot better. I even gave a link. Sorry, I though I convinced you because you had nothing to come back with. And I don't really feel like dropping it because it is one of my favorite arguments, and you started it anyway.


Assist to turnover ratio, doesn't mean a whole lot when you plain and simple aren't a good player. Kevin Ollie is, or was at least near the top of A to TO ratio last season, does that make him a good point guard? No. Tinsley has been struggling since his rookie year and you'll be hard pressed finding many guys who agree with you that Tinsley was a top 10 point guard last year.


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## PacersguyUSA (Sep 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>DetBNyce</b>!
> 
> 
> Assist to turnover ratio, doesn't mean a whole lot when you plain and simple aren't a good player. Kevin Ollie is, or was at least near the top of A to TO ratio last season, does that make him a good point guard? No. Tinsley has been struggling since his rookie year and you'll be hard pressed finding many guys who agree with you that Tinsley was a top 10 point guard last year.


Jvanabusk seemed to think it was very important. And when you play significant minutes, its always good to have a lot more assist than turnovers and its also important not to make any turnovers, another category where Tinsley was better than the point guards mentioned to possibly be better than him. Now of course, I don't _only_ base my decision of those statistics. I also base it of the other statistics that apparently "don't matter" to you and how well the player fits into the team.


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## jvanbusk (Jun 9, 2002)

I'm not going to be suckered into this useless arguement, even if you have to change what I say to try to entice me into it.


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## TLR (May 28, 2003)

The bottom line is that Tinsley has sucked for the last 2 years and that is all I care about.


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## PacersguyUSA (Sep 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>jvanbusk</b>!
> I'm not going to be suckered into this useless arguement, even if you have to change what I say to try to entice me into it.


And I quote from you: "And to top it off you only chose the statistical categories that bettered your claims, and ruled out *important point guard categories such as turnovers (Which Tinsley is one of the worst in the league)*"

Might I add that Tinsley is not one of the worst in the league.

Yep, I sure did change you words, sir.



> I'm not going to be suckered into this useless arguement, even if you have to change what I say to try to entice me into it.


Uh, you started it Chief.  



> The bottom line is that Tinsley has sucked for the last 2 years and that is all I care about.


Actually, he was a top ten point guard last year.


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## jvanbusk (Jun 9, 2002)

There is a difference between turnovers per game and assist to turnover ratio.


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## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

My point wasn't really just talking about how you just can't slant or twist the stats to prove your point. I don't know who brought up specific points, but I agree with TLR, it's really useless talking about Tinsley because he has sucked for 2 years now. I was going to say it earlier, but I didn't want it to seem like I was baiting or flaming or whatever they call it these days.


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## PacersguyUSA (Sep 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>jvanbusk</b>!
> There is a difference between turnovers per game and assist to turnover ratio.


Both of which, Tinsley is one of the best in the leauge, as I proved in the DNP topic.


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## jvanbusk (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>PacersguyUSA</b>!
> 
> 
> Both of which, Tinsley is one of the best in the leauge, as I proved in the DNP topic.


Yeah Tinsley is one of the best at committing turnovers per game. No argument there.


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## TLR (May 28, 2003)

PacersGuy I don't care what stats say. I've watched every Pacer game for the last 3 years, and believe me when I tell you that Tinsley has been garbage since the first half of his rookie year.


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## PacersguyUSA (Sep 1, 2002)

Yep, being in the top of the league in assists along with the likes of Kidd, Payton, Stockton, really is garbage. And yes, I've watched him through his whole career too. I really like his flashy style too.

But, to me, it isn't as important if Tinsley was a top 10 PG or not, I am just happy that I was able to out wit and out logic jvanbusk. (No offense jvanbusk, but I had a comeback with proof for everything you tried to prove)


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## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>PacersguyUSA</b>!
> Yep, being in the top of the league in assists along with the likes of Kidd, Payton, Stockton, really is garbage. And yes, I've watched him through his whole career too. I really like his flashy style too.
> 
> But, to me, it isn't as important if Tinsley was a top 10 PG or not, I am just happy that I was able to out wit and out logic jvanbusk. (No offense jvanbusk, but I had a comeback with proof for everything you tried to prove)


You made the worst statement of all claiming Tinsley was a Top 10 PG.


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## TLR (May 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>PacersguyUSA</b>!
> Yep, being in the top of the league in assists along with the likes of Kidd, Payton, Stockton, really is garbage. And yes, I've watched him through his whole career too. I really like his flashy style too.
> 
> But, to me, it isn't as important if Tinsley was a top 10 PG or not, I am just happy that I was able to out wit and out logic jvanbusk. (No offense jvanbusk, but I had a comeback with proof for everything you tried to prove)


Yeah he brings assists to the table, but is there any other aspect of his game that is any good. Kidd and all those guys have other aspects to their game that makes them great. Oh and his "flashy" style just creates lots of turnovers.


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## PacersguyUSA (Sep 1, 2002)

But he had the least turnovers per game than the 3 point guards we were talking about, so his flashy style is alright with me. I think everybody exaggerates his turnovers from that one game last year vs. the Knicks (where Artest smashed the camera) when Tinsley did a backwards pass in the last 30 seconds.


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## jvanbusk (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>PacersguyUSA</b>!
> Yep, being in the top of the league in assists along with the likes of Kidd, Payton, Stockton, really is garbage. And yes, I've watched him through his whole career too. I really like his flashy style too.
> 
> But, to me, it isn't as important if Tinsley was a top 10 PG or not, I am just happy that I was able to out wit and out logic jvanbusk. (No offense jvanbusk, but I had a comeback with proof for everything you tried to prove)


No. Simply No.


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## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

Pacersguy, I would like to know your reasoning on why Tinsley isn't playing this year. He was a top 10 PG last year in your opinion (and probaly only yours) and why all of a sudden isn't he playing if he was so good?


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## PacersguyUSA (Sep 1, 2002)

> No. Simply No.


Ironic how you provided no proof in that statement isn't it?



> Pacersguy, I would like to know your reasoning on why Tinsley isn't playing this year. He was a top 10 PG last year in your opinion (and probaly only yours) and why all of a sudden isn't he playing if he was so good?


He either got worse or is injured.


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## jvanbusk (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>PacersguyUSA</b>!
> 
> 
> Ironic how you provided no proof in that statement isn't it?
> ...


1) I'm sick of discussing something so ridiculous that has been played out for months.

2) I was responding to you saying you out wit and "out logic" (whatever the hell that may be).

You didn't prove **** other than you are the biggest homer on basketballboards.net


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## PacersguyUSA (Sep 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>jvanbusk</b>!
> 
> 
> 1) I'm sick of discussing something so ridiculous that has been played out for months.
> ...


1) Maybe you should think about that before you bring it up.

2) You couldn't disprove anything I said.

3) I have no idea what the hell a "homer" is unless it is in reference to baseball.


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