# Jefferson: Why so underrated?



## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

He may not be the prototypical power forward in today's game (ie 7') but he has upside AND the ability to contribute from year one on. He's one of the best players in one of most highly acclaimed high school classes ever, putting up silly numbers through the season and playing consistently well against tougher competition in summer and AS games. 

What are his weaknesses preventing him from being a lotto pick? If he's under 6'10 he will still have a standing reach surpassing most players of that height. Is he not a better prospect than Boozer and Randolph coming into the NBA? Is Elton Brand more athletic than him? 

Is he worth a top ten pick? Can he compete for ROY next year? How good can he possibly get?


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## Cusematt23 (Apr 15, 2004)

Really good. 

If I were a GM, and I had a chance at him around #7, I'd take him. None of these Euro players for me.


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## Geaux Tigers (Apr 26, 2004)

Im hoping he falls to New Orleans that would be nice.


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

lets give people a chance to digest the fact that all these highschoolers are now in the draft and then we can see if they are over or underrated. jefferson looks good but i dont think gm's are going to take him over; howard,bedrins or maybe even splitter. he may be the 4th powerforward taken.


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## jokeaward (May 22, 2003)

LOL, Jefferson and Traylor. Get a sturdy bench. Good thing Campbell's gone. Isn't West a young PF?


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## texan (Jul 10, 2003)

um hes 6ft8 maybe and fat and only semi athletic. hes a good prospect tho and should go from late lotto to late first dependen on how good he does in work outs. hes a bull in the psot


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

Jefferson's game lands him somewhere between Brand and Randolph. I think he's a great prospect. Not the tallest guy in the world, but stronger than everybody, with superior back-to-the-basket skills. I don't see the "fat" argument either. He's "powerfully athletic". 

I would take him in the lottery for sure.


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

LOL...Jefferson is not fat and he is more athletic then people think. He should go in the lottery but the lower he is projected the easier it will be for Mr. West to get a draft pick and get him.


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## takeanumber3333 (Apr 18, 2004)

Boozer is 6'8 seems to have the same type of build, big and extremely strong. He's considered undersized and isent to good at D but is 17/12 kinda guy. Whats Jeffersons skill set compared to Boozer's?


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## texan (Jul 10, 2003)

jeffersons more athletic than boozer yet i think shorter. supposed to have an amazing wingspan. will be a good offensive player but not defensive


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## takeanumber3333 (Apr 18, 2004)

O ya my bad, i think Boozer is 6'9, cuz hes a little taller than LeBron.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>takeanumber3333</b>!
> Boozer is 6'8 seems to have the same type of build, big and extremely strong. He's considered undersized and isent to good at D but is 17/12 kinda guy. Whats Jeffersons skill set compared to Boozer's?


much more developed post game.


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## h180ys (Nov 10, 2003)

I'm comparing him to Ben Wallace with more offensive skills.


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## Nimreitz (May 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>SkywalkerAC</b>!
> 
> 
> much more developed post game.


I hope you're talking about Boozer, because Jefferson's offense isn't close to Carlos'.

Look, Jefferson is a fine prospect, but come on. Amare is a little taller, WAY more athletic, and more of a beast. Amare went 8 in the draft. Even if Amare should have been, say #5, there is no reason to think that Jefferson should deserve a comperable draft spot; if he goes lottery, it's a mistake. I'd take him at 18 and not think twice about passing up Luke Jackson or Trevor Ariza, but he's no lottery pick.


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Nimreitz</b>!
> 
> 
> I hope you're talking about Boozer, because Jefferson's offense isn't close to Carlos'.
> ...


Amare would have went higher except he stopped his workouts after the Suns gave him the promise. He never worked out for any of the other top teams.

Amare>Randolph>Jefferson>=Boozer


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## Cusematt23 (Apr 15, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Nimreitz</b>!
> 
> 
> I hope you're talking about Boozer, because Jefferson's offense isn't close to Carlos'.
> ...


Kind of off the topic of the thread, who would you guys have taken #1 now that you've seen their careers develop for 2 years, Amare or Yao?

I'd take Amare. Yao's pathetic conditioning makes him look like he's gonna break down every game. Don't get me wrong, I see Yao as a good, good center. But I see Amare as being a 23/13 type of monster for many, many years. It's close though.


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## bdw0617 (Apr 4, 2003)

First, I am not bashing jefferson, but he has put up thoose numbers against 6'3 high school kids, who aren't anywhere near as big as he is. That's like putting shaq 4 years ago in D-2 college basketball.

HS All Star games are just that... HS all star games. Post players aren't going to sacrifice their bodies to try to stop someone of that size. All I saw in the games is that he runs the floor a tad bit better then I expected and he can dunk. He still hasn't answered any of the questions about his offensive game or his conditioning.

Amare? Not even close. Randolph? Not as athletic. Think Danny Fortson with a better offensive game, which wouldnt' be a bad player.

Would I draft him in the lottery? Yes, depending on the team I was. If I were the supersonics I wouldn't think twice of passing up on him, because of his size and his ability, and even though he is raw, he should be able to give you 15 mins a night right off the back simply because of his size.

If i were a team like charlotte, why? 

He will not go in the top 15, and because of that, unless he is guaranteed a spot, i woudln't put my name in the draft, because even if you are "projected" to go in the middle or late first, there is no rule sa ying that can't change (i.e quyntel woods) and you can fall out of the first round and kiss the guranteed contract goodbye.


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>bdw0617</b>!
> First, I am not bashing jefferson, but he has put up thoose numbers against 6'3 high school kids, who aren't anywhere near as big as he is. That's like putting shaq 4 years ago in D-2 college basketball.
> 
> HS All Star games are just that... HS all star games. Post players aren't going to sacrifice their bodies to try to stop someone of that size. All I saw in the games is that he runs the floor a tad bit better then I expected and he can dunk. He still hasn't answered any of the questions about his offensive game or his conditioning.
> ...


I the one thing an all-star game does show is a player's athleticism, and this spring Jefferson proved that he has tons of it. He was using powerful explosiveness effectively against players that are more athletic than anybody he would have seen in college. The plays below the rim/fat/slow argument just doesn't hold water here. I saw an in-shape, muscular, athletic, hulk of a basketball player. Glen Davis on the other hand...


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

Amare worked out for Houston, Orlando, Denver and twice Phoenix I think.

Maybe the Clippers as well.

However Amare had some sort of injury before the draft that limited his workouts and etc.


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## Nimreitz (May 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Cusematt23</b>!
> 
> 
> Kind of off the topic of the thread, who would you guys have taken #1 now that you've seen their careers develop for 2 years, Amare or Yao?
> ...


Well, I actually could see Amare being #5 in that draft even if all the GMs had an understanding of how good he was. I mean, Yao, J-Will, Gooden, and perhaps Nene (the foreign, mysterious factor is at play here) are all justifiable picks ahead of Amare.


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## Knicksbiggestfan (Apr 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>bdw0617</b>!
> First, I am not bashing jefferson, but he has put up thoose numbers against 6'3 high school kids, who aren't anywhere near as big as he is. That's like putting shaq 4 years ago in D-2 college basketball.
> 
> HS All Star games are just that... HS all star games. Post players aren't going to sacrifice their bodies to try to stop someone of that size. All I saw in the games is that he runs the floor a tad bit better then I expected and he can dunk. He still hasn't answered any of the questions about his offensive game or his conditioning.
> ...


Thank god someone cleared the air. You guys ever see that DVD that shows Tyson Chandler Curry Kwame and some other guys.

You notice real quick they're blocking the shots of little childeren.

I can't believe there is anyone on this planet that would take Amare before Yao, but whatever, the fact the guy plays hard runs well and gets up the floor year round proves he is anything but poorly conditioned.


Jefferson doesn't strike me as anything more special than Sophocles, who am I watching right now, and would wager is probably bigger and stronger.


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## Nimreitz (May 13, 2003)

Bigger and stronger than Sofo? I doubt that, but I really like the comparison; I think it could be the best one I've heard.


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## CMC (Aug 14, 2003)

Jefferson's a little taller than people are saying. He's probably about 6'9+ with shoes on, 6'8 & change without.

He's also a better athlete than people give him credit for. Very, very quick feet, good recovery speed on the perimeter, good spring off vert, and a lot "harder"(pause) body-wise than he was at the beginning of the year.

I think with his work ethic, level of intensity and ability, he could be a better defending, more athletic version of zach randolph, which is a pretty damn good player. 

He's the most ready to contribute Highschooler in the draft without a doubt, but he also has the least potential, but he should be about a top 15 pick when it's all said and done.

He should have a great shot at winning ROY depending on where he lands, too.


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## Knicksbiggestfan (Apr 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Nimreitz</b>!
> Bigger and stronger than Sofo? I doubt that, but I really like the comparison; I think it could be the best one I've heard.


R

Re-read. Sopho is bigger and stronger than him.


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## MagnusPinus (Aug 27, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Knicksbiggestfan</b>!
> 
> R
> 
> Re-read. Sopho is bigger .


Fatter, not taller.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>CMC</b>!
> 
> He's the most ready to contribute Highschooler in the draft without a doubt, but he also has the least potential, but he should be about a top 15 pick when it's all said and done.
> 
> He should have a great shot at winning ROY depending on where he lands, too.


but does he really have less potential than guys like JR Smith who has the upside of Michael Finley or so, if all goes well? Howard has more potential, I guess livingston must too, maybe Josh Smith? are there other highschool guys you would say have more potential for some reason?


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## Nimreitz (May 13, 2003)

J.R. Smith has the potential to be Vince Carter with the best jumpshot in the league, not just Michael Finley. A Vince Carter without injuries is scarry enough.


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## Quasi-Quasar (Jul 18, 2002)

BigAmare, Amare did not workout for the Clippers. He and his agent refused, and warned the Clippers against drafting him (although I think Wilcox, at the time would have gone ahead of him 9 times out of 10).

About Big Al versus Sofoklis Schortsanitis, Sofo is larger in all proportions, more muscular and more athletic. Sofo is 6-8 3/4 without shoes and 6-10 with (and he may have grown a little since last year's predraft measurings), while Al is probably 6-7 1/2 without shoes and 6-9 with (he's shorter than Josh Smith, and Smith is 6-9 at best). Sofo weighs a lot right now (over 300, but not 350 as the typo on his team site says; that's the source of that BS article about him weighing 350 BTW) and Al is at about 265. Sofo has a wider frame than Al as well. Sofo really slipped hard last year, but between the two, I think Sofo is still the better player. With that said in this weak draft, Al could be a mid-first pick or a late first pick depending on workouts. But it's foolish to think Al's 42 PPG against 5-footers, has any bearing on his pro-prospects. He's a slim-shouldered version of Zach Randolph at best, although he lacks Zach's soft touch. He's actually quite similar to Mario Austin, but he's more athletic and has more upside. He's not the guy you want to sart a franchise around but he'll score and rebound well, but he must improve his D to be an effective starter in his career.


And about JR Smith and the Vince Carter comparison, JR will never have the body control or *leaping* ability of VC. Smith is a pure power, two leg jumper like JRich. But VC can jump off of either leg, as well as two legs. Body control is the under-rated quality that separates guys like VC and T-Mac from guys like Shawn Marion and Rashard Lewis. JRich also isn't a great comparison IMO. I kind of like Quentin Richardson as a comparison, although JR will never rebound or play the low post like Q. But they share the same basic strengths and weaknesses and they are roughly the same size and shape (although Q is bulkier). Their games might be even more similar had Q not played PF at DePaul (and yes he did for all those people who say he was a G/F).


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Nimreitz</b>!
> J.R. Smith has the potential to be Vince Carter with the best jumpshot in the league, not just Michael Finley. A Vince Carter without injuries is scarry enough.


Vince DOES possess one of the very best jumpers in the league. JR, at this point, is nowhere close to VC. i think finley is much more realistic, another great shooting, super athletic guard, with a limited handle.


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## Knicksbiggestfan (Apr 29, 2003)

You guys really think JR smith can be as good as finely?? Finely not only taught him self to shoot but rebounds passess and defends pretty damn well.


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## Knicksbiggestfan (Apr 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>MagnusPinus</b>!
> 
> 
> Fatter, not taller.


I'm watching Cantu Trieste and I don't see a fat kid.

Al jefferson is 6'9 Sofo is 6'10.


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Nimreitz</b>!
> J.R. Smith has the potential to be Vince Carter with the best jumpshot in the league, not just Michael Finley. A Vince Carter without injuries is scarry enough.


I hate these comparisons. Just because JR Smith has tremendous atheltic ability and can dunk, people compare him to VC? 

VC is a very complete player, people don't give him credit for that. He was a great defender at UNC, and currently when he tries he's capable of being a good defender. He's a very skilled passer, very good court vision and a dangerous mid-range to long-range jumpshooter.

But though JR Smith does have terrific range on his shot, it's still very inconsistent. A lot of people are just judging him on that McD's all-star game. I think he's going to be a star too, but not on VC's talent level.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>h180ys</b>!
> 
> I'm comparing him to Ben Wallace with more offensive skills.


Why does every undersized PF get compared to Wallace w/ more offensive skill? Jefferson can't block shots nearly at the rate of Wallace. Jefferson's game doesn't translate to a NBA Shotblocker. He will also be not as good of a rebounder as Wallace is.


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## thefuture2 (May 2, 2004)

*Al Jefferson*

How is there any question about his guy.. i know he averaged 42ppg and im not sure about his rebound total but i know its like 10-20 or somethin like that..i dont care who your playing..as long as its varsity high school ball then its impressive enough for me to say hes got a good chance in the league..ive never seen him play but someone tell me if theres any negatives to this guy's game


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## Priest (Jun 24, 2003)

ive seen him play and he is solid i feel he will be something in the nba one day


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

we have a few threads going about him currently. i think he's pretty underrated unless his standing reach measures a lot less than expected. he'll be ready to impress by camp time.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Knicksbiggestfan</b>!
> 
> 
> I'm watching Cantu Trieste and I don't see a fat kid.
> ...


how did sofo look?


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## Bball_Doctor (Dec 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>TheGoods</b>!
> BigAmare, Amare did not workout for the Clippers. He and his agent refused, and warned the Clippers against drafting him (although I think Wilcox, at the time would have gone ahead of him 9 times out of 10).
> 
> About Big Al versus Sofoklis Schortsanitis, Sofo is larger in all proportions, more muscular and more athletic. Sofo is 6-8 3/4 without shoes and 6-10 with (and he may have grown a little since last year's predraft measurings), while Al is probably 6-7 1/2 without shoes and 6-9 with (he's shorter than Josh Smith, and Smith is 6-9 at best). Sofo weighs a lot right now (over 300, but not 350 as the typo on his team site says; that's the source of that BS article about him weighing 350 BTW) and Al is at about 265. Sofo has a wider frame than Al as well. Sofo really slipped hard last year, but between the two, I think Sofo is still the better player. With that said in this weak draft, Al could be a mid-first pick or a late first pick depending on workouts. But it's foolish to think Al's 42 PPG against 5-footers, has any bearing on his pro-prospects. He's a slim-shouldered version of Zach Randolph at best, although he lacks Zach's soft touch. He's actually quite similar to Mario Austin, but he's more athletic and has more upside. He's not the guy you want to sart a franchise around but he'll score and rebound well, but he must improve his D to be an effective starter in his career.
> ...


OUTSTANDING POST! 5 stars. 

A lot of people take HS stats too seriously. Somebody mentioned Danny Fortson. Fortson averaged 30 ppg and close to 20 rpg...rated 2nd HS PF prospect in US in his senior year. It is safe to say that he will never get those numbers in the pros.

When people rate HS players they really have to look at their level of skills rather than their stats although their stats do add merit.

For example, stat wise it can be argued that Telfair was a better player than Lebron in HS. We ALL know that is simply not true.


Jefferson played in a weak HS division but he is a solid prospect who does have potential regardless what some might say. But he should really go to college and work on his overall game or he will be the next Perkins who coincidently was MORE impressive IMO in HS than Jefferson. At best, Big Al can develop to be as good as Elton Brand (that is the truth) but he is clearly far from being that right now. Potential is a very SCARY word especially when applied to a player who is still far from acheiving it. It is much safer to say that he will a next 'Shaq of the MAC' Gary Trent. In fact, I would even say that Trent in 95' was a MUCH better prospect.


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## sonny22 (Dec 28, 2003)

First off jefferson was measured 6'9 without shoes. Second everyone has an argument that he dominated 6'3 kids. Well so did Howard. and all of the high school guys, but they couldnt produce like he did. Plus when he went on the aau circuit against guys his size, He still dominated. IMO politics have underrated this guy. He is going to shock quite a few people. I dont think the league has seen anything like him. He reminds me of a bigger, stronger, less athletic Amare, with a sweet shooting touch. I dont think any big man in the nba has his shooting touch. The GM that takes someone like Biedrins instead of jefferson, should hang himself.


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## Nimreitz (May 13, 2003)

A shooting touch? You MUST be joking. Jefferson just doesn't have an arsenal of post moves. It's effective to just dunk on everyone, even in high school all-star games, but a low tier NBA Center won't give him the position to do that. If I saw ANYTHING in his post game, I'd rate him a lot higher. I also think his reach will probably measure a little shorter than desired, so regardless of if he's 6'8'' or 6'9'', he's going to play like he's 6'7''.

Dwight Howard and South West Atlanta Christian played one of the toughest schedules in the country, most of the games featured a 6'9'' player at least to go against Howard.


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## Knicksbiggestfan (Apr 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>SkywalkerAC</b>!
> 
> 
> how did sofo look?


Strong, Angry, and has a nice baby hookshot. Huge wingspan, loves to crash the boards and block anything, which usually results in a foul because apparently Italian league basketball is very non-physical.

Gets no touches, gets no plays sets a mean screen, and I don't know if I read this correctly but did he get voted the best center under 21 in European Basketball?

Someone clear that up for me.


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## Knicksbiggestfan (Apr 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Bball_Doctor</b>!
> 
> 
> OUTSTANDING POST! 5 stars.
> ...


Yeah whenever I see the goods in the thread I know I'm going to get some good info.


Anyway I agree with most of your post, except the brand comparision - brand is such a quick guy, so fast on the fakes and has a darn quick first step for a forward - I don't think that's something you can learn but rather something you're born with.

I also don't like the Fortson comparision . As much as I don't like Fortson, he did lead the NBA in rebounding.


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## sonny22 (Dec 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Nimreitz</b>!
> A shooting touch? You MUST be joking. Jefferson just doesn't have an arsenal of post moves. It's effective to just dunk on everyone, even in high school all-star games, but a low tier NBA Center won't give him the position to do that. If I saw ANYTHING in his post game, I'd rate him a lot higher. I also think his reach will probably measure a little shorter than desired, so regardless of if he's 6'8'' or 6'9'', he's going to play like he's 6'7''.
> 
> Dwight Howard and South West Atlanta Christian played one of the toughest schedules in the country, most of the games featured a 6'9'' player at least to go against Howard.



YOu wrong on this one. Howard played in the smalles t class in georgia. Every team didnt have a 6'9 player, only the team with 
Morris on it. So why couldnt he score 40 on 5 footers? Plus Im not hyping Jefferson soley against his high school competition. He dominated the aau circuit too. Some of you should be ashamed comparing him to Sofo. Jefferson is a go to guy, Sofo is a decent role player. Jefferson is 6'9( measured without shoes on) but he plays much bigger. In the allstar games did you ecpect him to fingerroll 2 footers? Get serious. He didnt get any touches and he needs touches to get his groove. He is has the most upside in the draft in my opinion.


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## whiterhino (Jun 15, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Bball_Doctor</b>!
> 
> 
> Jefferson played in a weak HS division but he is a solid prospect who does have potential regardless what some might say. But he should really go to college and work on his overall game or he will be the next Perkins who coincidently was MORE impressive IMO in HS than Jefferson. At best, Big Al can develop to be as good as Elton Brand (that is the truth) but he is clearly far from being that right now. Potential is a very SCARY word especially when applied to a player who is still far from acheiving it. It is much safer to say that he will a next 'Shaq of the MAC' Gary Trent. In fact, I would even say that Trent in 95' was a MUCH better prospect.


Ok I need to clear something up here right now. Being the NEXT PERKINS IS NOT A BAD THING! Kendrick Perkins sat on the end of the Celtics bench this year as an 18 year old kid just out of high school. That, however, is not the end of the story. Kendrick was put on a very strict conditioning program this year...he came into the draft a little pudgy and not physically ready for the NBA....he's now completely ripped! The last time we saw him he looked like a young Karl Malone (body wise). Along with that, he impressed Everyone on the Celtics this year in practice. They said he's way ahead of schedule, they are thrilled with him and he's gonna be a player. He only played 35 minutes all season but in that little time he played he scored 22 points, grabbed 14 rebounds blocked 2 shots, dished 3 assists and shot 53% from the field. The Celts never planned on playing him this year, and even if he had been ready....Jim O'Brien would have NEVER played a fresh out of high school kid...had Amare been on the Celts he wouldn't have played either. Kendrick will get minutes this year and if Jefferson is anything like him, then someone ought to draft him before the 20's of the 1st round roll around because they have a future strong big man on their hands.


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## Knicksbiggestfan (Apr 29, 2003)

Look at the arms on this guy. Jefferson doesn't look anything close.


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## sonny22 (Dec 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Knicksbiggestfan</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


He is a big dude, but I assume he has been lifting weights for his pro team. Jefferson hasnt touched the weights so just imagime when he does. Plus Jefferson has more skill than size.


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## Quasi-Quasar (Jul 18, 2002)

Actually Sofo has never weight trained, or done any rigid training of any sort. Once Sofo begins a strict weight training and changes his diet, he'll probably shed about 30 pounds in the first 5 or 6 months. Big Al will never be as strong, as wide or as long as Sofo, nor will he ever be as athletic as Sofo. Al has a nice offensive game, but it hardly translates well to the NBA. Right now Al is used to being the biggest and strongest guy on the court, but in the NBA he isn't going to get good low-post position and his footwork is terrible. Sofo on the other hand, _can_ physically overpower most NBA PFs and Cs and has excellent footwork. Age wise it's a toss-up, although Sofo is actually 5 or 6 months *younger* than Jefferson. If I had to pick one now or 5 years down the line it would be Sofo. Sofo's play for Cantu (and for Iraklis in the past) is far more valuable in terms of experience and development, than Jefferson's domination of HS scrubs. 

Also Jefferson is not Kendrick Perkins at worst. Perkins has excellent footwork and is considerably taller, longer and wider than Al. Additionally, Perkins isn't the worst defensive player; despite his lack of athleticism, he has very decent anticipation and knows how to position himself well for a rookie. It will take Al many hours of hard work to get up to Perkins' level on D, and in the footwork and movement/positioning department. 

Also comparing Sofo to some of the guys that he's been compared to in the past is ridiculous. He isn't comperable to Eddy Curry or Zach Randolph or Danny Fortson or Shaq for that matter. The guy actually most comperable to Sofo as a whole is probably Nene. Like Nene, Sofo is raw, big, strong, long, has great footwork, is a good but not supreme shotblocker, and plays the passing lanes with the instincts of a guard. 

For Al, he is not Elton Brand, Kendrick Perkins, or Danny Fortson. If he doesn't hit the weights and conditioning programs, he'll be a poor man's Tractor Traylor (the operative is "poor man's"). However, giving him the benefit of the doubt, I'd say he compares best to Mario Austin (although physically Al is 4 or 5 years behind). He could, with hard work (and as of yet he hasn't shown a super work ethic), become a narrow bodied, less athletic version of Zach Randolph. However he'll never have Zach's soft touch, and he'll always be (about) 2'' shorter.

I wouldn't bank any franchise's future PF to be Al Jefferson, and Ainge is making some serious mistakes if he intends to pursue Al at #15. At #15, Splitter, Petro and Samardziski would be much better picks; and at #24 and/or #25 Slokar, Humphries, Swift, Varejao, and perhaps Sergey Lishchuk and Ronny Turiaf (if he declares) would be better picks than Jefferson.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Knicksbiggestfan</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


of course not, sofo is a true freak in the muscle department. 

think sofo will get time in the NBA next year? damn i wanted to get him in the second round for the raptors last year but we didn't have our own second rounder. 

has sofo been getting more time of late?


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## sonny22 (Dec 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>TheGoods</b>!
> Actually Sofo has never weight trained, or done any rigid training of any sort. Once Sofo begins a strict weight training and changes his diet, he'll probably shed about 30 pounds in the first 5 or 6 months. Big Al will never be as strong, as wide or as long as Sofo, nor will he ever be as athletic as Sofo. Al has a nice offensive game, but it hardly translates well to the NBA. Right now Al is used to being the biggest and strongest guy on the court, but in the NBA he isn't going to get good low-post position and his footwork is terrible. Sofo on the other hand, _can_ physically overpower most NBA PFs and Cs and has excellent footwork. Age wise it's a toss-up, although Sofo is actually 5 or 6 months *younger* than Jefferson. If I had to pick one now or 5 years down the line it would be Sofo. Sofo's play for Cantu (and for Iraklis in the past) is far more valuable in terms of experience and development, than Jefferson's domination of HS scrubs.
> 
> Also Jefferson is not Kendrick Perkins at worst. Perkins has excellent footwork and is considerably taller, longer and wider than Al. Additionally, Perkins isn't the worst defensive player; despite his lack of athleticism, he has very decent anticipation and knows how to position himself well for a rookie. It will take Al many hours of hard work to get up to Perkins' level on D, and in the footwork and movement/positioning department.
> ...



You must not watch must basketball, or have not seen Al Jefferson very much. A poor man's Traylor is very harsh. We will see, but I think Jeferson gets ROY.


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## Nimreitz (May 13, 2003)

Yeah, but you forget that Tractor Traylor was a lottery pick once.


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## Knicksbiggestfan (Apr 29, 2003)

Why is Al Jefferson rated so much higher than Nigel Dixon?


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

first off, sofo has been pumping iron for some time now, to same that he has never touched a weight seems ridiculous. any backup for that?

i've only heard good things about Jefferson's footwork and skills around the basket. given the right training program he's going to be very explosive and VERY strong (both of which he is already). in most drafts i think we'd see jefferson ranked much higher than he currently is.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

and Al Jefferson is CERTAINLY more athletic than randolph as far as leaping is concerned.


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## CMC (Aug 14, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>TheGoods</b>!
> Actually Sofo has never weight trained, or done any rigid training of any sort. Once Sofo begins a strict weight training and changes his diet, he'll probably shed about 30 pounds in the first 5 or 6 months. Big Al will never be as strong, as wide or as long as Sofo, nor will he ever be as athletic as Sofo. Al has a nice offensive game, but it hardly translates well to the NBA. Right now Al is used to being the biggest and strongest guy on the court, but in the NBA he isn't going to get good low-post position and his footwork is terrible. Sofo on the other hand, _can_ physically overpower most NBA PFs and Cs and has excellent footwork. Age wise it's a toss-up, although Sofo is actually 5 or 6 months *younger* than Jefferson. If I had to pick one now or 5 years down the line it would be Sofo. Sofo's play for Cantu (and for Iraklis in the past) is far more valuable in terms of experience and development, than Jefferson's domination of HS scrubs.
> 
> Also Jefferson is not Kendrick Perkins at worst. Perkins has excellent footwork and is considerably taller, longer and wider than Al. Additionally, Perkins isn't the worst defensive player; despite his lack of athleticism, he has very decent anticipation and knows how to position himself well for a rookie. It will take Al many hours of hard work to get up to Perkins' level on D, and in the footwork and movement/positioning department.
> ...


[email protected] Perkins having good footwork. Wow. How many times have you seen Perkins play?

Perkins will never be as good as Jefferson is already in the post. Doesn't have the ballhandling ability, touch, foot speed, or QUICK leaping ability of Jefferson. It's not even worth comparing the two.

And Jefferson can be just as good as Zach Randolph is imo, only he's a slightly better athlete.


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>TheGoods</b>!
> Actually Sofo has never weight trained, or done any rigid training of any sort. Once Sofo begins a strict weight training and changes his diet, he'll probably shed about 30 pounds in the first 5 or 6 months. Big Al will never be as strong, as wide or as long as Sofo, nor will he ever be as athletic as Sofo. Al has a nice offensive game, but it hardly translates well to the NBA. Right now Al is used to being the biggest and strongest guy on the court, but in the NBA he isn't going to get good low-post position and his footwork is terrible. Sofo on the other hand, _can_ physically overpower most NBA PFs and Cs and has excellent footwork. Age wise it's a toss-up, although Sofo is actually 5 or 6 months *younger* than Jefferson. If I had to pick one now or 5 years down the line it would be Sofo. Sofo's play for Cantu (and for Iraklis in the past) is far more valuable in terms of experience and development, than Jefferson's domination of HS scrubs.
> 
> Also Jefferson is not Kendrick Perkins at worst. Perkins has excellent footwork and is considerably taller, longer and wider than Al. Additionally, Perkins isn't the worst defensive player; despite his lack of athleticism, he has very decent anticipation and knows how to position himself well for a rookie. It will take Al many hours of hard work to get up to Perkins' level on D, and in the footwork and movement/positioning department.
> ...


This is a real ignorant post. Real ignorant. You have not seen Al Jefferson much, that is obvious from your 'evaluation' of him, if that is what you want to call it. Al jefferson is better than Humphries right now. He has been the 2nd best PF/C in this HS class since last summer. He is the reason why Aldridge is going to Texas, Aldridge couldn't handle him. He put up astronomical numbers in HS, big numbers on the AAU circuit, big numbers in the All Star games, and physically dominated all the Euro's in San Antonio but that means nothing 

I understand though, you are a Clipper fan...well I don't know that but you have to be if you are hyping Sofo up like you are and then making the claim that he has never lifted. Al Jefferson will be a 1st round pick this year, Sofo was a 2nd round pick who can't get any run in Europe.


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## Quasi-Quasar (Jul 18, 2002)

My analysis is not ignorant, it is observant. I've seen both players play several times (as well as having seen Perkins play a number of times, and he does have excellent footwork). Regarding the claim that Sofo has never lifted, which you dispute, he has not. In Europe, weight training programs are rare, not every player hits the gym like in the NBA. Sofo hasn't yet begun a weight training program, he will eventually, but as of yet he has not. You can say that he has, but it would simply be making things up. There are some people that are naturally that strong; for example Bonzi Wells and Quentin Richardson, who are the strongest SGs in the NBA IMO. Bonzi and Q have never really lifted or trained and yet they are the strongest (and in Q's case the heaviest) at their position and quite muscular. You may say what you'd like but ignorance is disputing something true with something that is false.

As for Al dominating HS, I don't dispute that he's dominated HS players. I don't think that it makes a difference, though. At the moment in terms of overall game, I give Perkins the edge. And whomever commented about Perkins not having good footwork and Al having good footwork, should definitely re-evaluate that comment. Perkins has little athleticism and isn't physicaly dominating, but late in the season, this year, he showed a few nice flashes. Perkins uses his good footwork and positioning to slip into the post and around guys, since he obviously can't blow past them or go over or through them. Jefferson on the other hand, depends on his strength and timing on the court. Jefferson has a bad habit of not setting his feet, but rather trying to use his hips and shoulder to get into position. That tactic won't work in the NBA where he doesn't have a strength advantage, plain and simple. Perkins' game relies on his ability to move just enough around and use his footwork to get him position. Jefferson certainly has the potential to be a decent player, but to say that he's even a star in the making is overblown. Elton Brand may only be about 6-8 (if that) but he has a 7-6 wingspan and a awesome work ethic; Al is around 6-7 maybe 6-8, but he doesn't have good length and isn't a great athlete or hard worker. Danny Fortson was the best rebounder in the NCAA and a good overall player for the Bearcats, before his lackluster NBA career; Al hasn't yet proven anything on this scale.

As for Al being as good or better than Randolph, not only is Zach taller, wider, longer, Zach also has touch, good (but not great) footwork, and a rebounding ethic which only a coach like Izzo could imprint. Zach got to where he is with hard work and I don't see where Al has, or will develop, a good work ethic. If Al where even 2'' taller and had played against some physical competition, I wouldn't have many doubt about him being an, at least, successful NBA PF. But that's not the case. While Al's upside is limited, his downside isn't too bad, and Robert Tractor Traylor was an absolutely dominant college player, so the Big Al fan club should take that as a compliment, specifically if Al measures in closer to 6-7 280.

As for over-hyping Sofo, I'm not. Watch him play and draw your own conclusions. He was an absolute steal last year, for the simple reason that none of the teams drafting late in the first even really worked him out. As far as pure physical and athletic talents come, Sofo is truely gifted as are player like Amare Stoudemire and Nene (both of whom have yet to really refine their game). The Big Al fan club can say what they like, however I've seen Al and Sofo play plenty of times, and certainly enough to get a good feel for their style of play and capabilities. So if you'd like to do the same, do so, and then let's see what you have to say.


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## Knicksbiggestfan (Apr 29, 2003)

No nigel break down?


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## Quasi-Quasar (Jul 18, 2002)

Sorry Knicksbiggestfan, I haven't seen Dixon play enough to give any decent breakdown, but I can tell you he won't block as many shots in the NBA as Earl Boykins (he's a terrible shotblocker for his size). Although, his height and weight will determine whether or not he's picked (in the second). If he's 6-11 and not 6-9 and weighs in at under 330, some team should draft him as a big warm body. But if he's really only 6-9 and weighs in closer to 350, he has no real shot at even being Oliver Miller quality. I can tell this much for certain though, he may be bumped out of the second in favor of a guy like Drago Pasalic or Sergey Lishchuk or Christjan Drejer or Beno Udrih if a team isn't looking for a guy to come over right away (it's becoming very common in the second, last year Becerovic, Sinanovic, Morlende, "piece of meat" Van de Hare, Glyniadakis, Yuyang, Badiane, Vranes, Szewczyk and Sofo were second rounders who stayed overseas). But he may make a team anyway. The Lakers are always looking for Shaq's backup, so he might have a shot there. 

But comparing Al Jefferson and Nigel Dixon is pointless. Al is the better player now, and he has more upside. Regardless of height, weight, and strength differences, Jefferson at 19 years old is more polished than Dixon already. Both are defensive liabilities at the moment, but there's no comparison on offense. Also Dixon (from the little I've seen of him) is exclusively a back-down sort of guy, and Jefferson's arsenal is not quite as limited.


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

You keep comparing Sofo to Nene and now Amare but I guess the Clippers just had too much talent to use a player that good  

I have seen AJ a lot and he does what he needs to do to be effective. In HS he just mauled guys because it was more efficient, in AAU where he played against similar talent and taller post players he used quickness, and tenacity around the glass to dominate. He will never be a great scorer like Amare but I think he will be more of a Charles Oakley type. 

The difference between AJ and Fortson is their motor. Fortson has never played with the intensity of Jefferson is not anywhere near the athlete. Fortson is sheer brute strength combined with his long arms it enables him to get plenty of rebounds. Heck if an NBA team gave Fortson 30 minutes a night he would still go out and get double digit boards now.

We will agree to disagree on Al Jefferson and Sofo but time will tell us all.


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## Quasi-Quasar (Jul 18, 2002)

I don't "keep" comparing Sofo to anyone. I compared him once to Nene. And I compared HIS PHYSICAL AND ATHLETIC ABILITIES TO AMARE AND NENE once. Also _I_ did not compare Jefferson to Fortson, I simply used him as an example of an undersized PF who had great talent and dominated at the college level, but couldn't do it in the NBA (...and it was meant to display that Jefferson hasn't even shown that he's near that level yet). 

Don't change my words, and make things up. If I compare facets of Sofo's game to facets of Nene's, that isn't saying Sofo is as good as Nene. Just as comparing facets of Jefferson's game to facets of Tractor Traylor's, doesn't imply he's at the same level (be it better or worse). As for comparing Al to Charles Oakley, Oakley's main purposes on the court were to defend, rebound, and bruise; Jefferson can be a very good rebounder, but he'll never be half of the defender Oakley was, and nor will he physically intimidate and cause injuries like Oakley. On the other hand though, Jefferson should be a better offensive player. Understand, I'm not "dissing" Jefferson, he just isn't a star-potential player IMO. Can he better than Kendrick Perkins? Sure. But he isn't right now IMO.

BTW, if Sofo were drafted this year he'd likely go in the mid-first, maybe even lotto. Seattle was very close to taking him at #14 last year, but they decided to take Collison instead (at #12, and they took Ridnour at #14), and then Sofo slipped big time because the late-first teams hadn't scouted him for more than a cursory look and already had their guys in mind for the most part.
Al shouldn't have this problem as long as he works out with enough teams; but he shouldn't depend on Ainge to take him at #15, because that depends on what Ainge sims in NBA Live 2004 on his PS2 .


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

Just glad to know that your crystal ball has informed you what Al Jefferson will never be able to accomplish in the NBA or do you use that crazy 8-ball thingy. Anyway, my comparison to Oakley was more of team role, maybe Carlos Boozer would be a better comparison.

As far as Sofo being a lotto pick this year...doubtful. However, we will see this summer in the summer league what type of player Sofo is at this point, even though I think he still has a lot of room and time to improve.

P.S. Al Jefferson will not be around after the lottery.


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## Quasi-Quasar (Jul 18, 2002)

Boozer is actually a very nice comparison, although Boozer is more athletic, stronger and has great footwork, overall their style of play is pretty similar.

As for Al not being around after the lotto, IMO teams would have to be possessed to not take any PF/C on this list over Jefferson:
Okafor
Howard
Biedrins
Josh Smith (if you consider him a PF)
Perovic 
Samardziski
Splitter
Petro
Padkolzine

and then the area greys with Ramos, Araujo, Swift and Omerhodzic (if he gets rid of this headcase label).

If you take only the guys on this list that exclusively are PFs, that still leaves 6-8 guys who should be taken ahead of Al (the 2 questionable guys are Samardziski and Smith, both of whom could be PFs when all is said and done). Jefferson, with great workouts, could forseably leapfrog Araujo, Swift, Petro and maybe Samardziski, but I don't think that gets him in the lotto (Ramos' workouts will also determine how high he climbs though).

And I'm not a crystal ball or 8-ball guy, I'm more of a video tape and tickets to a game sort of guy.


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>TheGoods</b>!
> 
> As for Al not being around after the lotto, IMO teams would have to be possessed to not take any PF/C on this list over Jefferson:
> Okafor
> ...


Okafor --yep
Howard -- yep
Biedrens -- yep
Smith ---yep
Perovic--yep
Splitter--yep

Now Samardziski and Petro would have to have some great workouts tobeat him out but they do have the advantage of being taller and able to play center. I think Petro will go higher than Al Jefferson also. but IMO their are only 4 maybe 5 non-PF/C types that will go in the lottery (Deng, Iggy,Gordon, Livingston and maybe Telfair or Harris but not both.)

However, you are right, his position depends on how his workouts go and what his measurements turn out to be. I do know one team that is planning on moving into the late lottery for him though.


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## Nimreitz (May 13, 2003)

I think if you mock draft it all out right now, Al Jefferson doesn't quite get into the lottery, but doesn't fall past 20.

The guys that go lottery are almost set right now in my opinion. You have Okafor, Howard, Deng, Josh Smith, Livingston, Biedrins, Harris, Gordon, Iguodala, Perovic, and Splitter. You can also make a case for Pavel, which I would.

That's 12 guys right there, but I'm going to assume one doesn't get taken in the lottery, so 11 of 14 lottery picks right now. Then I think there's certainly a chance that Jameer, Telfair, and J.R. Smith could go lottery. Basically I've listed 12 lottery picks, plus 3 more guys. I think realistically Al Jefferson will go as high as 13 (so I guess he theoretically CAN go lottery), but he certainly could fall behind all of those guys, and depending on team needs, also fall past Araujo, Harrison, and depending on workouts, Humphries. So I have 18 players that COULD go ahead of him in the worst possible scenario. I think 15 is right on the money.

Also Samardziski and Petro, but I don't really know much about them yet, so I can't really rate them.


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## Bball_Doctor (Dec 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>whiterhino</b>!
> 
> 
> Ok I need to clear something up here right now. Being the NEXT PERKINS IS NOT A BAD THING! Kendrick Perkins sat on the end of the Celtics bench this year as an 18 year old kid just out of high school. That, however, is not the end of the story. Kendrick was put on a very strict conditioning program this year...he came into the draft a little pudgy and not physically ready for the NBA....he's now completely ripped! The last time we saw him he looked like a young Karl Malone (body wise). Along with that, he impressed Everyone on the Celtics this year in practice. They said he's way ahead of schedule, they are thrilled with him and he's gonna be a player. He only played 35 minutes all season but in that little time he played he scored 22 points, grabbed 14 rebounds blocked 2 shots, dished 3 assists and shot 53% from the field. The Celts never planned on playing him this year, and even if he had been ready....Jim O'Brien would have NEVER played a fresh out of high school kid...had Amare been on the Celts he wouldn't have played either. Kendrick will get minutes this year and if Jefferson is anything like him, then someone ought to draft him before the 20's of the 1st round roll around because they have a future strong big man on their hands.


First off, I NEVER said anything bad about Perkins. Also I NEVER compared Jefferson to Perkins, they are quite different players honestly. If you read my post correctly I said that Perkins coming out of HS was a BETTER talent than Jefferson not that I as using him as a direct comparison. Although the truth is that I never thought Perkins was great anyways and that he should have gone to college and developed into a Harrison like player.


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## Bball_Doctor (Dec 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Knicksbiggestfan</b>!
> 
> 
> Yeah whenever I see the goods in the thread I know I'm going to get some good info.
> ...


I can see what you are saying. Jefferson is not as quick as Brand...in fact Okafor in A LOT of ways resembles Brand. To the point that I have even begin comparing Okafor to Brand instead of the popular comparison to Zo.

But I can see Jefferson potentially developing into a player very much like Brand not that he will be his clone. But that potential is still far from the player he is now and must be seen with some level of skeptism. I will NEVER say with 100% confidence that Jefferson will turn out to be his potential. In fact, you can't say that for ANY player even Lebron last year. If someone asked me what my confidence rate for Lebron last year was as far as his potential is concerned I would have said 85%. It is safe to say that Jefferson is much lower than that.


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## sonny22 (Dec 28, 2003)

IMO, once Jefferson gets some good coaching, watch out. He comes from a small town in MS and hasnt been taught much basketball. Thats why I think he will win ROY. Plus he was measured 6'9" and 3/4 with his shies on. An inch shorter w/o shoes. I think he just looks stocky b/c he is so big at 265, not 280. Im hearing he is working hard on his foot work and post moves, plus conditioning, so we will see.


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## RP McMurphy (Jul 17, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>sonny22</b>!
> He comes from a small town in MS and hasnt been taught much basketball. Thats why I think he will win ROY.


So you think he'll win Rookie of the Year in the NBA because his coaches haven't done a good job of preparing him to play in the NBA?


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## sonny22 (Dec 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>ArtestFan</b>!
> 
> 
> So you think he'll win Rookie of the Year in the NBA because his coaches haven't done a good job of preparing him to play in the NBA?


No, Im saying that once he gets drafted he will getting the proper work and guidance that he needs. He has all the tools, he just needs to no when to do what againts whomever(small or tall defenders). Also I heard he is working out with good instructors to prepare for the draft.


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## RP McMurphy (Jul 17, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>sonny22</b>!
> 
> 
> No, Im saying that once he gets drafted he will getting the proper work and guidance that he needs. He has all the tools, he just needs to no when to do what againts whomever(small or tall defenders). Also I heard he is working out with good instructors to prepare for the draft.


You can't become NBA-ready in three months. It takes years to learn these things. You're acting like he's going to spend a week working out with a good coach and suddenly he'll be in his prime.

The more likely scenario is that he'll play less than 100 minutes during his rookie year.


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## sonny22 (Dec 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>ArtestFan</b>!
> 
> 
> You can't become NBA-ready in three months. It takes years to learn these things. You're acting like he's going to spend a week working out with a good coach and suddenly he'll be in his prime.
> ...


He has enough talent, much like alot of other players, to play in the NBA before they reach their prime. Are you serious?


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## Kezersoze (Mar 3, 2004)

How is Al Jefferson different from Al Harrington? Iam not trying to imply anything negative, just want to know differences/similiarites.


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