# Blazers vs. Nuggets -- GAME THREAD



## ABM (Dec 30, 2002)

Looks like it's gotta be Denver. At this point, I don't see any chance of us catching, either, Memphis or Houston.

So, tonight's the night - a chance to gain (or lose) 1 FULL game on the Nuggs.

The result: 3 1/2 or 5 1/2 games behind them.

So, all you math wizards, is this game actually worth _two_ games??


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## Trader Ed (Jun 17, 2002)

The crowd should be a buzzin'.....

should be interesting to hear there reactions to the new players

I hope they come in at the same time.... SAR and Theo.. I am not sure if Dan will play...

maybe a platoon, since they are familiar with each other... all three at once... at least this game


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## Son of Bintim (Jan 21, 2004)

Well i will be one of them cheering them on:yes:


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## ABM (Dec 30, 2002)

I wish that i could be there!

I wonder if they'll get 17,000+ there tonight?


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## BlazerFanFoLife (Jul 17, 2003)

they will have atleast 1..


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## Draco (Jun 28, 2003)

This is a huge game if the blazers are going to have a chance to make the playoffs. I'd imagine they are gonna bring it tonight after their bad play in the other denver games, but its anyones guess how they'll respond.

We need to stop Melo he destroyed us last game maybe patterson will guard him this game? That would really jam up the forward rotation.


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## Trader Ed (Jun 17, 2002)

Man oh man... I love hearing Mark Mason announce Rahim and Ratliff as part of our team

:banana:

I think I am going to cry


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## MAS RipCity (Feb 22, 2003)

10-2....good start..I wish we woulda played like this vs Utah though:sigh: ah well a W tonight will erase the Utah game.


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## PorterIn2004 (Jan 1, 2003)

Anyone know if this game is on local TV at all?

Oops! Never mind....I found the thread.


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## ABM (Dec 30, 2002)

8 FG........8 Assists

Nice. :yes:

Make that 9 for 9....Damon 5 Assists already.


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## Samuel (Jan 1, 2003)

Ratliff in!!!


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## MAS RipCity (Feb 22, 2003)

This is killing me not being able to see our new guys playing.


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## blazerboy30 (Apr 30, 2003)

sounds like Theo got a pretty good ovation when he checked in.......i love hearing that!!! :yes:


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## Samuel (Jan 1, 2003)

Ratliff gets a board!


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

Was anyone else depressed when Damon threw a lob to Theo and Theo didn't know what to do with it?

Sheed would have dunked that.


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## Samuel (Jan 1, 2003)

SAR in!


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## MAS RipCity (Feb 22, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>NathanLane</b>!
> Was anyone else depressed when Damon threw a lob to Theo and Theo didn't know what to do with it?
> 
> Sheed would have dunked that.


Well, Theo is a quick learner, he just threw down rube's pass.


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## ABM (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>NathanLane</b>!
> Was anyone else depressed when Damon threw a lob to Theo and Theo didn't know what to do with it?
> 
> Sheed would have dunked that.


Don't even start, NL. :no:


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## MAS RipCity (Feb 22, 2003)

Anyone want to guard Leonard?


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## ABM (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>MAS RipCity</b>!
> Anyone want to guard Leonard?


I see you added an "o" to his name - to go along with his game.


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## Samuel (Jan 1, 2003)

Gotta like that rebounding. As Jason Quick said, it will be rare when teams outrebound us now.


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## Samuel (Jan 1, 2003)

Nice, fans are showing the love.


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## BlayZa (Dec 31, 2002)

sounds like the crowd is really buzzing


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## ABM (Dec 30, 2002)

13 FG --- 13 Assists!!


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## Trader Ed (Jun 17, 2002)

Ratliff blocks the shot

we score...

Denver turnover

Rahim attacks.. gets fouled


man oh man... love it already

I told you Rahim was going to attack the basket... and our foul shots were going to increase


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## MAS RipCity (Feb 22, 2003)

OK,now time to put DMiles back in, take out DA,Damon, or Ruben for Darius to come in.


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## Trader Ed (Jun 17, 2002)

Ratliff blocks again

Rahim scores again

:banana:


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## MAS RipCity (Feb 22, 2003)

Man,Theo is tearing it up on the defensive end.


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## MAS RipCity (Feb 22, 2003)

NO MAS DA! and NO MAS taking out Theo for Dale.


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## MAS RipCity (Feb 22, 2003)

We gotta play better team defense,they are a good team,but they shouldn't have this many points on us right now...at least Voshon hasn't been killing us in the last few minutes


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## Trader Ed (Jun 17, 2002)

what do we gotta do to get some good guards...

our big men are awesome.. 

Damon :rocket: is a turnover machine tonight

put Cook in.....


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## ABM (Dec 30, 2002)

Damon has 10 Assists already - 7 for PDX and 3 for Denver.


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## Samuel (Jan 1, 2003)

Initially, Sheed's defense will be sorely missed.


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## Trader Ed (Jun 17, 2002)

Its not the post defense that is the problem... there guards are killing us... 

Our big men defense is fine

54 - 49 Denver at the half


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## Samuel (Jan 1, 2003)

Yeah, if another trade landed us a sharpshooter AND someone who could defend, that'd be huge.


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## jackiejackal (Nov 7, 2002)

Miles must be on the court longer.
Here are two games in a row that clearly show a falter the minute he leaves.


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## Beaverton (Apr 17, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jackiejackal</b>!
> Miles must be on the court longer.
> Here are two games in a row that clearly show a falter the minute he leaves.


He's in foul trouble.


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## ABM (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>tblazrdude</b>!
> Yeah, if another trade landed us a sharpshooter AND someone who could defend, that'd be huge.


Pierce


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## Samuel (Jan 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>ABM</b>!
> 
> 
> Pierce


sounds good to me!

Like Billy Beane says, buy low, sell high. Sorry Zach


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## Trader Ed (Jun 17, 2002)

Pierce would be hug.. an inside outside game that would be in balance... he is not the greatest outside threat.. but still good..

Ray Allen would be better...

but man.. a PG too would be awesome


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## Focus (Feb 13, 2004)

As a life long Reef fan, I know that Reef and Theo won't disappoint you guys/girl. He bring you FT/rebound/inside scoring.

:yes: 

Now try to find a sharp shooter and we're set.


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## MAS RipCity (Feb 22, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Trader Bob</b>!
> Its not the post defense that is the problem... there guards are killing us...
> 
> Our big men defense is fine
> ...


You are so right, our backcourt defense is horrible....please can we get a new backcourt.


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## ABM (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Trader Bob</b>!
> Pierce would be hug.. an inside outside game that would be in balance... he is not the greatest outside threat.. but still good..
> 
> Ray Allen would be better...
> ...


Heh, kinda reminds me of the old Whitsitt days. Our insatiable appetites for potential trades never cease.


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## MAS RipCity (Feb 22, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Trader Bob</b>!
> Pierce would be hug.. an inside outside game that would be in balance... he is not the greatest outside threat.. but still good..
> 
> Ray Allen would be better...
> ...


Pierce is not the greatest of outside threats I would say he is one of hte best 3 point shooters in the game, at the LEAST top 10, prolly top 5-7. He is better then Ray Allen. He scores in the 4th, is more athletic,and attacks the goal more.


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## ABM (Dec 30, 2002)

Stop this guy = ballgame.


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## Samuel (Jan 1, 2003)

Guys I dislike:

DA
Davis


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## MAS RipCity (Feb 22, 2003)

Davis sucks,please take him out....also am I the only one who feels we are going to get run out of the building?


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## Samuel (Jan 1, 2003)




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## Trader Ed (Jun 17, 2002)

*3 PT FG% by SG*

By ESPN 

Ray Alen #22

Wes Person #16 (Dang I want him back)

Paul Pierce #34

the stats would disagree with you


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## jackiejackal (Nov 7, 2002)

Zach is slow and winded.
Miles looks great.
Damon looks terrible.

Put the new guys in please.


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## Samuel (Jan 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>MAS RipCity</b>!
> Davis sucks,please take him out....also am I the only one who feels we are going to get run out of the building?



Wheeler's words have that listless quality to them.


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## MAS RipCity (Feb 22, 2003)

Cheeks=moron...dunno why he has such a fetish for Dale,Damon,and Derek..play more Cook,Rahim,Ratlif.


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## Samuel (Jan 1, 2003)

Lineup proposal:

Omar Cook
Derek Anderson
Darius Miles
Shareef Abdur-Rahim
Theo Ratliff


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## MAS RipCity (Feb 22, 2003)

HOLD ON TO THE FREAKING BALL! Damnitt, how many times have we thrown the ball away?


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## Trader Ed (Jun 17, 2002)

Man.. Mo....................... put Ratliff, Rahim and Cook back in...

pull the turnover machines


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## Samuel (Jan 1, 2003)

This season is in the balance and they can't summon decent ball-handling.

HERE COMES DICKAU!!!


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## MAS RipCity (Feb 22, 2003)

trade DA please, I'll take a store bought cookie for him.


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## Samuel (Jan 1, 2003)

I love Danny, but I have no clue what Mo is doing.


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## jackiejackal (Nov 7, 2002)

Inexcusable to let them get down by 11 without a change in lineup..

They looked great in the beginning.
So what happens?????
Cheeks takes em all out and puts in a 
different lineup.
why???

He has very strange lineups.


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## MAS RipCity (Feb 22, 2003)

down 13, game VERY depressing to listen to on radio,gonna go hang out with friend, later guys.


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## Focus (Feb 13, 2004)

Can anyone tell me how DD play tonite?


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## Samuel (Jan 1, 2003)

he sucks man.


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## jackiejackal (Nov 7, 2002)

Davis and D. A must go.

They hurt the lineup..

where did D.A. 's shot go?????
Davis stands there like an old west
Indian statue outside the saloon.

He must leave in Theo longer.
He was blocking shots,now nobody is stopping them at the basket.

Zach is missing in action.
Has he gained weight???


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## jackiejackal (Nov 7, 2002)

I can't help but say.........
coach cheeks is in over his head.

There is no plays...


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## Samuel (Jan 1, 2003)

There's 1 positive. It's only the 3rd quarter.

Besides that, things look pretty bleak. 

New Lineup idea:

Dickau
Darius
Shareef
Randolph
Ratliff


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

yah, we have outside shooting..

DA QUIT SHOOTING 3'S YOU TARD.


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## jackiejackal (Nov 7, 2002)

anybody watching this game with me???

say something..
whay do you think??
suggestions??


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## Samuel (Jan 1, 2003)

I love how Derek thinks he can actually shoot.


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## Focus (Feb 13, 2004)

Is the team running inside out with Reef?


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## Samuel (Jan 1, 2003)

Standing O




C'Mon, you gotta love it.

jackal, was it worthy of an O?


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## jackiejackal (Nov 7, 2002)

yes sir..ring it up !!!!!!!!!



surprize surprize...
new guys in...
pace picks up
scoring picks up...

yes !

13 for 22 at the foul line...yek !!


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>tblazrdude</b>!
> I love how Derek thinks he can actually shoot.


what scares me is not that DA thinks he can actually shoot..but that other players and management *thinks* he can actually shoot.


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## Focus (Feb 13, 2004)

FT% suck...:dead:


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## jackiejackal (Nov 7, 2002)

well,here is my honest opinion so far.

There are no called plays.

Remember Utah??
You knew what they were going to do,but
you still couldn't stop them??

Right now,we have terrific players on the court..
But there is no apparent play calls.

Their coach is up talking every minute,pointing.
Our coach is sitting grumbling.
Now granted,he is sick.

But geez louise...
we have about 10 men sitting on both sides of him.

Who's calling out plays??
I just don't see it.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

i wonder how long after the game, if they end up losing, before someone suggests that the team woulda won with Rasheed..or that this proves that Rasheed's D cannot be replaced..

Now, his D was important, but 1 game does not mean the trade is horrible...just that DA and Damon are.


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## jackiejackal (Nov 7, 2002)

down by 11 with 10 minutes to play


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## MAS RipCity (Feb 22, 2003)

Man if we had a abckcourt and NO MAS Dale,we could do some things.


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## Samuel (Jan 1, 2003)

i have had no problem with any of the new players so far tonight.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>MAS RipCity</b>!
> Man if we had a abckcourt and NO MAS Dale,we could do some things.


seriously, can you stop with saying "NO MAS" all the time?


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## jackiejackal (Nov 7, 2002)

you are right..
I love most of these players..
but don't you agree that they don't seem to have patented plays??

Randolph has 6 points with 7 shots..

down by 13

they need to use these new guys..
quit dribbling damon !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Trader Ed (Jun 17, 2002)

Hap.... its the guard D that is killing us

look how many of their guards haev scored easily without even being checked.. enter Barry

Its the lack of Sheed's D or our new frontcourt's D

their guards are not even being pressured.. and DA is putting up bricks... Miller and Boykins and Leonard are killing us

Dickau actually did not do too bad


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## MAS RipCity (Feb 22, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hap</b>!
> 
> 
> seriously, can you stop with saying "NO MAS" all the time?


can you chill just a bit?


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## jackiejackal (Nov 7, 2002)

why have Randolph in so long when he stinks?????

It's not his night.

Why not Omar in longer also ?



Bottom line..
Denver has controlled all but 5 minutes of this game.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Trader Bob</b>!
> Hap.... its the guard D that is killing us
> 
> look how many of their guards haev scored easily without even being checked.. enter Barry
> ...


that was kind of my point.

Rasheeds D doesn't stop Vashon from scoring 17 1st half points..or Boykins making Damon look like he's drugged..or DA shooting his usual crappy %..

I didn't (and don't) expect them to win this game. And because of that, I fully expect a lot of people to hyperbole, claim the sky is falling, and do their best chicken littles.

Miles didn't play enough..Omar didn't play enough...Dickau didn't play enough..Ratliff and Rahim didn't play enough..Sheed is a satan worship...oops, he's no longer on the team. my bad.

Anywho, things don't get fixed over night, and having basically 1 practice together doesn't make this team cohesive.


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## Trader Ed (Jun 17, 2002)

sorry... I misread it

Boykins for 3..... who would have thought


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## jackiejackal (Nov 7, 2002)

no hap,not the sky...
just the playoff chances slipping away.

This game was crucial.

You should hear how badly their radio guys wanted it.
Denver really needed this game.

there is still time..
8 minutes left.
down by 15


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## Samuel (Jan 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hap</b>!
> I fully epxect everyone to hyperbole, claim the sky is falling, and do their best chicken littles.


That's a pretty easy prediction to make. The sky has been falling for years around here, lol.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>tblazrdude</b>!
> 
> 
> That's a pretty easy prediction to make. The sky has been falling for years around here, lol.


yep..it falls when the team loses, and it rises up when they win..

 :angel:


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## jackiejackal (Nov 7, 2002)

If the playoffs were not so close,and each game were not so crucial..
this game loss would be a shrug.

But it's not.

90 to 77


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## MAS RipCity (Feb 22, 2003)

Get rid of Damon Dale and Derek and get a pass first point guard, a great outside shooter,and another ruben type palyer and we could be set.


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## jackiejackal (Nov 7, 2002)

down by 10 only !!

no it's 12


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## Trader Ed (Jun 17, 2002)

Ratliff 4 blocks


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

im most upset that the next game isn't for a while..and it's against _ the lakers _

:hurl: 

so after the LA love fest this weekend, where they're going to go nuts sucking up to LA we have to play the Lakers..

ugh..


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## FanOfAll8472 (Jun 28, 2003)

Damon really misses 'Sheed.


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## jackiejackal (Nov 7, 2002)

down by 9 with 5 minutes


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## Goldmember (May 24, 2003)

I hate the Nuggets, and I'm really starting to dislike Carmello. This guy is looking like a Blazer killer.


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## jackiejackal (Nov 7, 2002)

no d outside..

down by 10


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## Trader Ed (Jun 17, 2002)

New guys are great...

another 3 pointer.. Leonard

97 - 85 Denver ................5 mins left

:rocket:


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## jackiejackal (Nov 7, 2002)

damon scored his first points since the 1st 
quarter

nolan fine is robbing the blazers


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## Trader Ed (Jun 17, 2002)

I made my prediction correctly

Ratliff 5 blocks


He is exactly what we needed


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## Samuel (Jan 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jackiejackal</b>!
> damon scored his first points since the 1st
> quarter
> 
> nolan fine is robbing the blazers


I don't get that. Aren't you sposed to get the benefit of the doubt, if anything, at home?


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

go to Wes for thre...ooh yah. he's gone.


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## jackiejackal (Nov 7, 2002)

go blazers
down by 9 with about 3 and 1/2 minutes to play.
some bricks by damon..
try passing next time damon


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## Samuel (Jan 1, 2003)

That starting lineup tonight ended up being a joke.


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## jackiejackal (Nov 7, 2002)

that's it..
have damon and d.a. take all the shots...
brick after brick



4 LOSSES BEHIND THE NUGGETS TONIGHT.


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## Trader Ed (Jun 17, 2002)

4 games back in the loss column to Denver

thank you Damon and DA :rocket:


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## Samuel (Jan 1, 2003)

it's just that they lack general decision-making skills. I'd rather have Dickau in there shooting treys then Derek, who ended up shooting some 10 threes.


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

HUGE loss.

Don't blame Damon and DA.

DA hit some threes. DAmon got a lot of assts.

Z-Bo is to blame.


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## MAS RipCity (Feb 22, 2003)

Is Darius even in? And Carmelo shouldn't have had 27,erarly i nthe game he shoulda been called for a fould but they switched the call to a step out of bounds,that would have gave him 2 quick fouls,taken him out of his rhythm,etc....the thing that lost us the game was Lenoard in the 1st quarter,imo. And of coarse DA thinking he can shoot and his TO's.


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## Samuel (Jan 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>NathanLane</b>!
> HUGE loss.
> 
> Don't blame Damon and DA.
> ...


Nah, you can't count on Randolph to produce. He gets the dirty buckets, not the go-to ones.


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## jackiejackal (Nov 7, 2002)

LAST POST...
I love our new guys..
This looks like a different team.

D.A. is NOT our designated shooter from outside.
They will have to repair that immediately.
He also doesn't play D.

But ohhh the potential here for next year.
Nice looking team !!!

DOUBLE DOUBLES FOR THE NEW GUYS !!!!!!!!


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## Focus (Feb 13, 2004)

Reef get his usual double double in 28min, not bad. It is the guard killing us tonite...


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## Samuel (Jan 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jackiejackal</b>!
> LAST POST...
> I love our new guys..
> This looks like a different team.
> ...


good call. sticking around for the mixum/MAS vultures to make broad declarations about the teams well being isn't my cup of tea.

Should be a fun rest of the season though. I'm glad my boy Dickau got in.


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

Reefer goes to his signature move:

The Garbage Time, Star Padding Dunk!

Ugh.


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## blazerboy30 (Apr 30, 2003)

sounds like Theo got a pretty good ovation when he checked in.......i love hearing that!!! :yes:


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## blazerfan4life (Dec 31, 2002)

OH MY GOD...yes we lost this game but it is not over :upset: no team can win win the other team is shooting over 50%...plus this is the first game with the new people who JUST FLEW IN YESTERDAY..so give them a freaking break...:upset:


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## MAS RipCity (Feb 22, 2003)

DA 41 mins 17 or so points on 3/11 3 pt shooting..yes CHeeks he is obvioulsy good can we play him some more..while Darius shot 60% and scored 15 points in only 28 mins...Damon also got 36 mins..where is Antonio Daniels when we need him now:upset:


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## MAS RipCity (Feb 22, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>blazerfan4life</b>!
> OH MY GOD...yes we lost this game but it is not over :upset: no team can win win the other team is shooting over 50%...plus this is the first game with the new people who JUST FLEW IN YESTERDAY..so give them a freaking break...:upset:


I don't think many are upset with the team,just the ones who stink(Dale,Damon,DA)..the rest played fine tonight..love Theo and SAR already.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

some positives:

SAR and Ratliff played good to great.

Dickau didn't make us think of Rick Brunson.

Miles continues to play great.


some negatives:

it's another loss, _at home_

Zach seemed to play like a player who's upset his buddy is gone, and stupid. I think thats partly to blame on Dale Davis and him both being starters. Dale is a waste of a uniform, and that doesn't help Zach's game. Put Ratliff (and maybe SAR) in there, and he should be fine soon.

Damon and DA. If they were turning it over, jacking up crappy shot after crappy shot, they were being burned on D.

Defense seemed to regress.

Attendance wasn't very good.


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## blazerfan4life (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>MAS RipCity</b>!
> 
> 
> I don't think many are upset with the team,just the ones who stink(Dale,Damon,DA)..the rest played fine tonight..love Theo and SAR already.



Yes but you win as a team and you lose as a team..i thought the new guys played as well as they could considering they are on a new team..plus Z-BO didn't get going..and i was really posting for the people who are going to say oh no we are not going to make the playoff...some team spirit they have...:upset:


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## Playmaker0017 (Feb 13, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>NathanLane</b>!
> Reefer goes to his signature move:
> 
> The Garbage Time, Star Padding Dunk!
> ...


Wow, you're an  please don't refer to a fellow poster in a demeaning manner 

Reef was one of the sole reasons this game wasn't a blow out. He scored 20 points and grabbed 12 rebounds. Shot 50% AND didn't commit a turnover while dishing 3 assists. What more could he do? Even taking away the final dunk, he had an impressive line.

He played solid in our attempt to make a comeback, getting the ball to the open men. They just weren't able to hit their shots. Things will take a while to click.

I think Randolph felt it the most. He isn't the only one in the post any more and he has to contend with Reef and Theo clogging it up.

It will get better, I hope.

Again, I say we start looking for that SG. 

Damon is fine at PG. After watching Jason Terry in ATL, trust me, Damon is awesome. 

 

Peace,

Play.


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## Playmaker0017 (Feb 13, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Hap</b>!
> Zach seemed to play like a player who's upset his buddy is gone, and stupid. I think thats partly to blame on Dale Davis and him both being starters. Dale is a waste of a uniform, and that doesn't help Zach's game. Put Ratliff (and maybe SAR) in there, and he should be fine soon.


Zach probably isn't used to having another guy in the low post. He isn't used to fighting his own team for position. 

Reef and Theo didn't know the plays and were quite often cutting off Randolph's position.

It will come with time, although, I think Reef is a far superior player to Randolph. I think we SNT Randolph or package him up.... his value is high and try to get a stud SG. 

That's just me, though.

Play.


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## MAS RipCity (Feb 22, 2003)

Man, playoffs not looking good, we are now 4-5 games back of the 8th palce team..well if we make the lotto we can trade our lotto pick + one of our "unwatneds" for any good backcourt player.


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## The Enigma (May 10, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Playmaker0017</b>!
> Reef was one of the sole reasons this game wasn't a blow out. He scored 20 points and grabbed 12 rebounds. Shot 50% AND didn't commit a turnover while dishing 3 assists. What more could he do? Even taking away the final dunk, he had an impressive line.


Interestingly enough that is what he has been doing his entire career.

The bad news however is that the turnout is what he has been a part of for his entire career as well (the lowest career winning percentage amongst active players).


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## KIDBLAZE (Jul 8, 2003)

That's it for the next games line up...


pg Damon
sg Miles 
sf Shreef
pf z-bo
c theo

do you all still think I'm crazy?


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## MAS RipCity (Feb 22, 2003)

Take out Damon, put in Cook.


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## Playmaker0017 (Feb 13, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>The Enigma</b>!
> 
> Interestingly enough that is what he has been doing his entire career.
> 
> The bad news however is that the turnout is what he has been a part of for his entire career as well (the lowest career winning percentage amongst active players).


Do you honestly believe that this has something to do with Shareef as a player? 

Do you really buy that media B.S. or do you think for yourself?

Last time I checked, it was a team game. One man cannot and never will single-handedly win for a team.

Reef has never had talent around him. 

You jest and poke at the Portland team, while I am thinking this is the best team Reef has ever been on. Hands down.

Really. JT and Big Country are the best players he's played with. A PG without a brain and a C that thought the value meal was the best way to spend his new contract.

Again, I point to the facts:

No one wins without a cast.

Where is Paul Pierce now that his role players are gone?

Where is Iverson now that his role players are gone and replaced with the o' so talented Big Dog?

Where is Tracy McGrady?

Why can't Kobe make the Lakers win without Shaq?

BECAUSE IT IS A TEAM GAME!!!

Is it Reef's fault that Randolph had 6 TOs and DA couldn't hit a shot tonight? No. Nor would it be their fault when Reef has an off-night. 

Play.


----------



## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

Bad loss for Portland. Damon was very passive (getting 13 assists but almost all on perimeter passing; he didn't drive the ball at all in the second half, and he put no pressure on his man at either end of the court) and DA couldn't hit the broad side of a barn.

Ratliffe looked very good... he looks like he's going to be able to finish all the looks right at the rim that Dale Davis doesn't do a very good job converting.

SAR also looked very good. Too bad he racked up another double-double in yet another loss. I hope he gets a chance to start putting those up on a winning team.

Zach was horrible. 2-7 from the floor, no offensive rebounds in 32 minutes and *six* turnovers. I predicted after the trade that SAR's presence would affect him more than anyone else, and although it's only one game that looks like it might turn out to be true.

One guy who was NOT affected was Darius Miles. He looked GOOD attacking the basket and hitting a jumpshot or two. Defensively he's not quite there yet, but he's obviously got the tools and if he can stay healthy and keep working on his jumper (which DOES look better than it did the last couple of years), he could turn out to be something.

Omar Cook looked really good. His +3 point stretch in the first half was some of Portland's best basketball tonight. I was disappointed that Cheeks didn't use him in the second half, and I think that Dickau's stretch was one of the key points in the game where we needed a little boost from our bench, ended up falling down a couple points more with him on the floor, and ultimately couldn't make that up later.

We all know it's only one game, but back-to-back home losses to fringe playoff competitors puts us in a rough spot for a playoff run...

I still don't think the Wallace deal was a bad one, but I wonder why they couldn't have waited to make the move until the playoff break; we might have won these two games instead of losing them if we hadn't had the tumult of the big deal.

Ed O.


----------



## Playmaker0017 (Feb 13, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>MAS RipCity</b>!
> Man, playoffs not looking good, we are now 4-5 games back of the 8th palce team..well if we make the lotto we can trade our lotto pick + one of our "unwatneds" for any good backcourt player.


MAS,

Chances are, the trade ended any chance of going to the playoffs.

The players are more talented and the cast is stronger, but the problem lies in chemistry. 

It is going to take a while to become a real unit, I would think.

By the time they gel, the race will be all but over.

I hope I am wrong, because I can definitely say it isn't a talent issue. The only thing that is an issue right now is chemistry (and maybe the abundance in PFs)

Play.


----------



## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Playmaker0017</b>!
> 
> Do you honestly believe that this has something to do with Shareef as a player?


I think that he does. And it's not like he's alone.

I don't believe it personally, but it's not like The Enigma's espousing crazy talk.

You ask where a bunch of teams are that are led by good players without talent... and the answer is that all of them (except McGrady) have teams that are better than the Hawks, and ALL of them have been in the playoffs often the past few years.

SAR's a very good player, but for a guy who's been on Team USA and is considered by so many to be a perennial all-star, he's singular in his inability to win on a consistent level. I think that it's a combination of bad luck, bad teams, and too much hype.

Hopefully Portland can turn it around soon and he can prove those who label him a loser wrong.

Ed O.


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## Clank (Feb 11, 2004)

I'd love to see more of Cook. 

Damon was up to his normal antics again. Slow to set up the offense, turnover prone, even missed two free throws in a row. When he's obviously not having a good night and Cook comes in and plays steady, why does he come right back out so quick?

And speaking of free throws, we would have been right with them the whole way if we would have made a decent percentage. How can professionals who have been doing nothing but playing this game their whole lives absolutely SUCK so much at shooting a short range, uncontested shot!?


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## Trader Ed (Jun 17, 2002)

Ed if you have the time can you post those + - numbers for this game...

I gotta believe our guards just really cost us

Zach had a bad game.. but other than that our front line is awesome

If Zach did not have the turnovers I bet he would do much better. he has good instincts just Duckworth hands at times


No worries for SAR, we will make him a winner.... its gonna take a couple of games... they had quite the impressive debut IMHO


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## MAS RipCity (Feb 22, 2003)

Yes Zach had a tough game,but with a player like him who has a scoreres mentality, and he only got up 7 shots, as a young kid he got antsy which lead to some of his turnovers imo.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

until things change, let's call our guards

Erek Anersn and Amn Stuamire.

because they suck on D and O.


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## The Enigma (May 10, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Playmaker0017</b>!
> Do you really buy that media B.S. or do you think for yourself?


Take a pole; ask around... I doubt you will find many that believe me to not think for myself.

I say what I say due to my own personal beliefs (philosophies) or what I observe through studying numbers and/ or watching games. I doubt you will run across many as focused on independent thought as myself (check my signature, it never changes).

Many may not agree with some of the things I say but I doubt you will find any that believe me to be of the sheep variety. 

----

My position on the Rahim issue is well documented (take the time to study up).


----------



## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Trader Bob</b>!
> Ed if you have the time can you post those + - numbers for this game...
> 
> I gotta believe our guards just really cost us


Unfortunately, I don't have an entire game breakdown. Since Cook was just in for one stretch, it was easy to look on the NBA.com play-by-play and see how he (and Dickau) did. I guess if Cook was +3 and Dickau was -1, Damon was about -11, since once of the three of them were in almost the whole game (I think there was a minute or two where none of them were, iirc).

I agree that our guards (offensively and defensively), particularly our starting guards, killed us tonight. Pretty sad.

Ed O.


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## Trader Ed (Jun 17, 2002)

Boxscore by NBA.com 

19 turnovers :rocket:

bad FT% :nonono:

We did outrebound them with our killer frontline 43-33

When our guards are shooting good and we have a lack of turnovers.. we are tough to beat... but tonight.. :hurl:


----------



## baler (Jul 16, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>NathanLane</b>!
> HUGE loss.
> 
> Don't blame Damon and DA.
> ...


You have no clue. Zach didn't even get that many minutes. Between Damon and DA's offensive and defensive performance they were probably a -25. DA passed to the nuggets at least 4 times. Vashon tourched him for 17pts in the first quarter. Zach is not to blame for this loss our guards are.


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## Todd (Oct 8, 2003)

Damon started out pretty good, then bam, it was all over. DA needs to get on a RAZ transport out of town! He stinks!!!




Damon, and DA, and the missed free throws, really tanked the game for us.

The new guys looked good, and they will be fun.

We missed alot of shots tonight, and Denver just couldn't miss.


----------



## RW#30 (Jan 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>The Enigma</b>!
> 
> Interestingly enough that is what he has been doing his entire career.
> 
> The bad news however is that the turnout is what he has been a part of for his entire career as well (the lowest career winning percentage amongst active players).


Are you serious?

He played for an expansion team for 4-5 yrs. When was the last time a new team won at least 50%of their game? Let's look it Damon. He was traded from Toronto to a contender at the time. He must be better than SAR. Your stats have no merit. After that he went to Atlanta where half the team was injured and or traded over the years. Show me a player where a new guy has to carry a team by himself and have success. Duncan had Robinson and Elliott, Iverson had a healthy Theo, Kobe had Shaq,Gran Mama had Zo and the list goes on.

I don't know SAR's game that well but the dude pout up 20/10 in the west with Vancouver. I went to the game and i liked what I saw from him. He played great and had most of his stats before that dunk. We were still only down with like 9 points with 2 min or so to go so it is not garbage time . If Damon could hit one of those shots but i guess he couldn't even pad his stats.

Stop screaming for Zach's head and cry for Rasheed. This team will be a good one in a year. So what if they miss the playoff?
We draft 2 good guards and go through training camp.(without Damon:yes 

I loved Theo's game. At one point he let Nene drive by him and timed him perfectly to block his shot to himself. It was a beauty.:yes: :grinning:


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## RW#30 (Jan 1, 2003)

*People get off DA*

He had a bad game. Damon was worst tonight. He cost at least 10 turnovers with his inability to feed the post/dribble the ball of his leg on a fast break and the list goes on. Cook was by far the better Pg tonight. I love the way he brings up the ball. Like an old western cowboy. Runs kind of sideways always ready to pull the trigger. He is ready to pass the moment he crosses the half court line. I hope we keep him for the season.

The Ft and turnovers killed us. DA had a bad game but if we shot our Ft better He didn't have to throw up those 3's. We would be in the game. His defense was bad on RL. He had 17 point in the first qrt. alone.

In Zach's case he needs to learn to pass better from doubles and get use to the crowd in the paint. It will take time but by next year with some experience and a whole month of training camp this will be a good team to watch. 

I am more disappointed in Q. How come he can’t get 5-10 min as a SG? He needs to show the team this last 30 games his value and skills. He be gone by next year if he fails to do that.


----------



## NugzFan (Jul 26, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Goldmember</b>!
> I hate the Nuggets, and I'm really starting to dislike Carmello. This guy is looking like a Blazer killer.


:grinning:


----------



## The Enigma (May 10, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>RW#30</b>!
> Are you serious?


About as serious as a stroke.



> He played for an expansion team for 4-5 yrs. When was the last time a new team won at least 50%of their game? Let's look it Damon. He was traded from Toronto to a contender at the time. He must be better than SAR. Your stats have no merit. After that he went to Atlanta where half the team was injured and or traded over the years. Show me a player where a new guy has to carry a team by himself and have success. Duncan had Robinson and Elliott, Iverson had a healthy Theo, Kobe had Shaq,Gran Mama had Zo and the list goes on.
> 
> I don't know SAR's game that well but the dude pout up 20/10 in the west with Vancouver. I went to the game and i liked what I saw from him. He played great and had most of his stats before that dunk. We were still only down with like 9 points with 2 min or so to go so it is not garbage time . If Damon could hit one of those shots but i guess he couldn't even pad his stats.
> 
> ...


All I stated was a fact (just to put it out their). I made no assumptions and I passed no judgments. I provided no actual stats.

Please explain to me the direction of you diatribe in response to my statement (does anything you said change the truth behind what I stated)?


----------



## dkap (May 13, 2003)

> You have no clue. Zach didn't even get that many minutes.


That's largely the problem with the SAR trade, as I see it. Our two best players are not complimentary to each other. Sure, SAR and Theo had great debuts, but at what expense? We're little better than Atlanta was with them because their arrival neutralizes the good aspects the team already had in place.

It's a pretty safe bet that either Zach or SAR will have a sub-par game most nights. Nice to have that sort of fall back capability, but you'd like the odds to be better of your two best players doing well at the same time...

It's funny, many people were at Whitsitt's throat for his "I wasn't a chemistry major" approach to assembling talent, yet that's little different than what Nash and Patterson have done here. They've assembled an impressive collection of talent without apparent regard for how it fits together. (I thought they actually had that figured out after the Miles trade, but now I'm thinking it was blind luck.)

Either SAR or Zach needs to be moved for this team to go anywhere. I'm undecided which it should be, but I'm leaning toward Zach. SAR will make the team better in the short run and should still have a lot of miles on the tires.

0-2 post-Sheed... And for those of you already trying to shut down the pro-Sheed crowd's right to voice that opinion, ask yourself honestly if you wouldn't have been boasting after this game how great a trade it was if we had won.  

Dan


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## MAS RipCity (Feb 22, 2003)

Well think of it like this....with Sheed this year we make the playoffs,next year without him(he walks away) we go prolly 25-57 with the team we saw vs utah....we had to trade him(according to insiders say he wouldn't come back)...but now we need to deal SAR or Zach (would rather deal SAR) for a guard because reef and zbo both play the same kind of games.


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## Goldmember (May 24, 2003)

Relax guys. Our team isn't going to mesh in the first game. Our two newest starters were coming off the bench. Wait until the proper lineup is in place. Wait until they have some time to play together before we deem that Zach and SAR can't coexist.


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## el_Diablo (May 15, 2003)

16384...

how is this possible? everything that was wrong with the blazers is gone, new exciting players in the lineup, and super-rookie carmelo anthony in town...

by the way, what's the capacity of rose garden?

edit: not melo's first time in portland...


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## jackiejackal (Nov 7, 2002)

If Portland replaces Damon and D.A.
and Davis...
Look out league !!
This team will be very competitive.

It was so thrilling to see smiling players,and no sour faces.

But it stood out so badly that the backcourt is invisible.
Zach?? I have no idea what was wrong with him.
The front court is fine !!
The new guys are just fabulous !
Oh my gosh those blocks were incredible...and so smooth Rahim.

I am feeling very good about this team.
I hated to see them lose last night.
Those two losses in a row might be very damaging to playoff hopes.

A shooting point guard would REALLY help.
Wes was really missed last night.

Trade for the best point guard available..
Portland will look very very good.


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## Playmaker0017 (Feb 13, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>jackiejackal</b>!
> If Portland replaces Damon and D.A.
> and Davis...
> Look out league !!
> ...


Damon is NOT an awful PG. He's average. 

I've followed Reef since HS, and let me tell you -- Damon is the BEST PG Reef's played with. Damon's problem is he is too highly paid. 

As for Randolph, I think he is playing the sour grapes role. Even Cheeks replaced him deep in the game. I think Randolph is having a tough time adjusting to the way teams are playing him now and isn't happy about the trade.

If he is half as good as people boast, then he'll recover.

Play.


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## jackiejackal (Nov 7, 2002)

RW#30 says "get off D.A. "

why??

He is killing us..
it is just a shame that he is injured.. very
sad.
He just has no legs for the jump shots.


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## jackiejackal (Nov 7, 2002)

damon average???
Ok..


Personally I would trade him for Earl Boykins today !!
Heck,even Omar looks better than him.

His ball distribution is horrid !!
Sure sometimes he makes coool 3 pointers...
But his role as a point guard is bad.

He keeps the ball waaay too long,the players get the ball with seconds to shoot.

The play is long dead..

What's your point???
Ok..he is average..

There are a ton of average point guards..
And to be smaller and average...yuk !

To me,the size is not a factor..
did ya see Earl??????


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## dkap (May 13, 2003)

> I've followed Reef since HS, and let me tell you -- Damon is the BEST PG Reef's played with. Damon's problem is he is too highly paid.


Interesting. You could count the number of Blazer fans on one hand who feel Damon is as good as, or better than, bibby and Terry.

At a mere $3 million per year, we'd still be complaining loudly about how bad Damon is for the team most nights. Salary isn't the problem, it's just the nail in the coffin ("Damon = walking dead" analogy, anyone?).

Dan


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## Playmaker0017 (Feb 13, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>dkap</b>!
> 
> Interesting. You could count the number of Blazer fans on one hand who feel Damon is as good as, or better than, bibby and Terry.
> 
> ...


I know, but the grass is ALWAYS greener on the other side of the fence.

Let's really take a look:

Bibby - Bibby is not a great PG. He only averages what? 4 assists ... that's off the top of my head. And he plays on THAT team! Heck, I could get 4 assists. I'd just pass to Peja every time. 

Seriously, Bibby was awful for Vancouver. The coach preferred that the team run a guard oriented offense. I used to call it guard-guard, becuase the guards would just pass it back and forth all night.

Bibby is average, but in Vancouver, he was bad. He couldn't get the ball to the post. Couldn't penetrate and dish. His shot was not that great so, people sagged off him. It was disgusting.

Terry - OH GOD! What that tells me is all you've looked at are his stats. Go to a Hawks board and tell them you think Terry is a good PG. 

He lacks decision making skills and is the SOLE reason the Hawks are dreadful. He deferred to a new guy every year. 

Last year, he put the ball in Big Dog's hands EVERY time down court. Which is why Big Dog had career lows in FG% and highs in shots and TOs. Dog didn't know what to do. This year, it is Stephen Jackson and Dion Glover.

Terry is SUCH an awful PG that the french rookie SF/SG/PG Diaw is running point and so is Dion Glover (a SG). 

Terry is AWFUL! Terrible! 

He puts up nice stats because he usually dribbles around for a while and then forces a shot. He IS a good shooter. But, he is an atrocious player. 

His basketball mind could sit on the tip of a pin.

Trust me.

Not to mention Terry plays "Olay!" defense. Literally. Look at Theo Ratliff's comments from his two years in Atlanta. He consistantly berates Terry for allowing the PG to penetrate all night. He doesn't outright say "Terry" but he alludes to it. 

Damon is TWICE the PG Terry could possibly dream of being.

As for Bibby, they are probably equal. But, during Bibby's first year ... Damon was a much better player.

Play.


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## Playmaker0017 (Feb 13, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>jackiejackal</b>!
> damon average???
> Ok..
> 
> ...


I haven't seen enough of Damon to know his skill set. 

I do know that what I have seen, before and after the trade, that I would take Damon over Terry and over Bibby (at least the young Bibby). 

From a statistical output line - he is averaging 3 assists to each TO. That isn't bad.

Play.


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## gambitnut (Jan 4, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Playmaker0017</b>!
> 
> 
> I haven't seen enough of Damon to know his skill set.
> ...


I'll help you out, he is slightly shorter and NOT a good shooter, but other than that, you could copy and paste your analysis of Terry.


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## RW#30 (Jan 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jackiejackal</b>!
> RW#30 says "get off D.A. "
> 
> why??
> ...


I was there and saw he had an awful game. He has lost a lot do to injuries and age, but he is still the best option for SG as of right now. Two games ago everyone was cheering for him. Nine assist, 5 steal some points we won yippy. Now hang him. He didn't lose this game. I don’t want to beat a dead horse but if we want to point fingers it was Damon and Zbo and Mo. First of all Damon had 5 to what I counted and had about 5 assist for the game. Of course in the box score this morning he had 3 to and 10 or so assist. That is do to the home statistician. He cost us at least 8-10 To with his crappy passes and feeding the post. 

Zbo. He was a fish out of water. I know he needs to learn and get use to the other post up guys on this team . Spacing, passing out of doubles and be more aggressive. I thought h was standing around and complained a lot last night.

As for Mo. He is out coached on the nightly basis. Leonard lid up DA for 17 points in the 1st qrt. and he was just sitting there potting. He has no clue. I know it is hard to integrate 3 new guys into a team half way through the season but Cook was awesome and Ruben was great defending lenoard in the 2nd. Why did he take him out in the 3rd for Anderson. He was also doing a great job on Anthony for a while than, go to the bench. Dale Davis has no room on this roster.


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## dkap (May 13, 2003)

Uh, you accuse us of only going by stats and not knowing Bibby and Terry's games well enough, then you turn around and say you don't know Damon's game well and only have stats to go on? That's ludicrous.

Dan


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## Clank (Feb 11, 2004)

I'm in Sac so I see alot of Bibby. He's soooo much better than damon. If his assists are low it's because his team has the highest amount of assists. You can't just throw to peja and have him shoot, he'll be covered. Instead he goes to their big men in the high post, they set a bunch of screens, pass three or four times, and then get an open shot. Everyone ends up spreading the assists around.

Plus Bibby is a better shooter. He gets the offense moving quickly instead of dribbling in place for 10 seconds. He doesn't get torched by opposing PG's every night. He shoots well, and great in clutch situations.


----------



## jackiejackal (Nov 7, 2002)

RW..good post.. !!
Indeed not only D.A.

But the combo of Damon and D.A. was lethal for Blazers..

As I said in other posts last night..
I am giddy about the potential of this team with tinkering.


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>MAS RipCity</b>!
> Get rid of Damon Dale and Derek and get a pass first point guard, a great outside shooter,and another ruben type palyer and we could be set.


Yeah, we'll just get a pass first PG and a shooter, for our stale players.


----------



## DrewFix (Feb 9, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>MAS RipCity</b>!
> Take out Damon, put in Cook.


exactly!!! the kid creates!! the game moves faster and more of our inside players get open.


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## Tom (Jul 15, 2002)

you guys need more COWBELL


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## Todd (Oct 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>DrewFix</b>!
> 
> exactly!!! the kid creates!! the game moves faster and more of our inside players get open.


I agree. Damon slows down the tempo of the game, and gives the other team time to set up their D. When Cook was in last night, the tempo of the game increased and threw the Nuggets off a little.


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## D-Up (Jan 26, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>gambitnut</b>!
> 
> 
> I'll help you out, he is slightly shorter and NOT a good shooter, but other than that, you could copy and paste your analysis of Terry.


You forgot one important thing: defense. For players that averages 30 minutes or more per game, I think Stoudamire is at atleast top 10 among defensive liability.


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## Tom (Jul 15, 2002)

Give Omar a little more time...Damon on the other hand has turned himself into Dana Barros at the end of his career. Does Portland make you soft...that isn't an insult.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Tom</b>!
> you guys need more COWBELL


----------



## Tom (Jul 15, 2002)




----------



## Tom (Jul 15, 2002)

Damn...i ended another thread


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## Playmaker0017 (Feb 13, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>gambitnut</b>!
> 
> 
> I'll help you out, he is slightly shorter and NOT a good shooter, but other than that, you could copy and paste your analysis of Terry.


Hehe.

You might be right, but from what I've seen, he is better.

Terry could be one of the best. Heck, look at his stats. Look at his physical skills - he'd be among the quickest in the league. 

But -- he lacks all IQ. 

Damon, from what I've seen, can MAKE the pass. He isn't Kidd, but he can make the pass. 

Terry on the other hand, doesn't even see the pass and when he does -- he can't make it. Terry has issues getting the ball into the post.

I saw things from Damon in the Nuggets game that I never saw with any other PG playing alongside Reef. 

OF COURSE, that could be coaching too. The plays being run and the cast running them, might be loads better than what Reef is used to. I mean, Terry Stotts? Why not just put me in as the coach?

Play.


----------



## Playmaker0017 (Feb 13, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>dkap</b>!
> Uh, you accuse us of only going by stats and not knowing Bibby and Terry's games well enough, then you turn around and say you don't know Damon's game well and only have stats to go on? That's ludicrous.
> 
> Dan


Okay, I will reiterate -

I do not watch Damon on a nightly basis, but from what I have seen --- he is not as bad as Terry or Bibby (in Vancouver).

I was trying to offer up that I was NOT a Damon genius or chronologer - but I have seen him play. I don't know his game as well as Shareef's, that is for certain. That is what I was saying. 

You all need to relax. Ease off the goddarn trigger, ya'll. 

I've said it before, he may not be a good PG, but he is not as bad as Terry.

I also said "from a statistical output" ... I did NOT base my opinion on the stat line.

Remember, this IS email and verbage lacks the strength of spoken word due to inflection loss. I apologize for the miscommunication ... all I was trying to say is that I am not overly familiar with the guy. I do know what he brings to the table, in general, and I know people's opinion of him. 

I have had the "privledge" of watching him from time to time, enough to formulate an opinion. Enough to know that I liked what he brought to the team more than what Terry brought. 

I apologize that you felt I was attacking you. I was just talking like I would to a buddy across the table while drinking a beer. It wasn't meant to offend you.

Play.


----------



## Playmaker0017 (Feb 13, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Clank</b>!
> I'm in Sac so I see alot of Bibby. He's soooo much better than damon. If his assists are low it's because his team has the highest amount of assists. You can't just throw to peja and have him shoot, he'll be covered. Instead he goes to their big men in the high post, they set a bunch of screens, pass three or four times, and then get an open shot. Everyone ends up spreading the assists around.
> 
> Plus Bibby is a better shooter. He gets the offense moving quickly instead of dribbling in place for 10 seconds. He doesn't get torched by opposing PG's every night. He shoots well, and great in clutch situations.


Clank,

Agreed. 

Which is why I make the disclaimer Bibby (in Vancouver). 

Bibby is a MUCH MORE mature player than he was in Vancouver. He has the benefit of a better team and more importantly a better coach.

Bibby, in Vancouver, was asked to play outside his element in my opinion. It hurt him and the team. 

Play.


----------



## Playmaker0017 (Feb 13, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>dkap</b>!
> Uh, you accuse us of only going by stats and not knowing Bibby and Terry's games well enough, then you turn around and say you don't know Damon's game well and only have stats to go on? That's ludicrous.
> 
> Dan


Okay, I will reiterate -

I do not watch Damon on a nightly basis, but from what I have seen --- he is not as bad as Terry or Bibby (in Vancouver).

I was trying to offer up that I was NOT a Damon genius or chronologer - but I have seen him play. I don't know his game as well as Shareef's, that is for certain. That is what I was saying. 

You all need to relax. Ease off the goddarn trigger, ya'll. 

I've said it before, he may not be a good PG, but he is not as bad as Terry.

I also said "from a statistical output" ... I did NOT base my opinion on the stat line.

Remember, this IS email and verbage lacks the strength of spoken word due to inflection loss. I apologize for the miscommunication ... all I was trying to say is that I am not overly familiar with the guy. I do know what he brings to the table, in general, and I know people's opinion of him. 

I have had the "priviledge" of watching him from time to time, enough to formulate an opinion. Enough to know that I liked what he brought to the team more than what Terry brought. 

I apologize that you felt I was attacking you. I was just talking like I would to a buddy across the table while drinking a beer. It wasn't meant to offend you.

When I say something like - you must be basing this on stats, it is my harsh way of saying "really? Outside of statistics -- I can't see how" Iwasn't trying to defame people. 

Really, stop it with the fragile egos. I will try to tone down the way I say things, I am a bit ... how will we say ... demonstrative.

Play.


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## dkap (May 13, 2003)

> all I was trying to say is that I am not overly familiar with the guy.


And those who _are_ overly familiar with Damon's game will tell you without hesitation that you're out of your mind if you honestly think he's better than either Bibby or Terry. Even as a Grizz, Bibby took Damon to school on a regular basis. He didn't suddenly become a good player when he went to Sacto, that just brought his skills to the forefront.

Dan


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## Playmaker0017 (Feb 13, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>dkap</b>!
> 
> And those who _are_ overly familiar with Damon's game will tell you without hesitation that you're out of your mind if you honestly think he's better than either Bibby or Terry. Even as a Grizz, Bibby took Damon to school on a regular basis. He didn't suddenly become a good player when he went to Sacto, that just brought his skills to the forefront.
> 
> Dan


Bibby might have been out of his element in Vancouver and his skills weren't on display as much as they could have been. 

He certainly was not able to get the ball into the post effectively and was remiss in setting up a solid half-court offense (although his shot was nice at times). This could have been the fault of Sid Lowe and Lionel Hollins ... the two of which couldn't collectively tie a shoe. 

So, I can grant you Bibby skillset, but I won't grant you Bibby's "play" while in Vancouver.

As for Terry, I just can't agree based on what I have seen. His talent is there, but he is NOT a PG in any sense of the word. His basketball IQ is nil. 

Maybe it is coaching, because admittedly, Terry has only had one decent coach and that was for a short time. But, I can't substantiate it, because there is no proof otherwise.

With Bibby, he improved with a better coach and system. 

Terry - on the other hand - had not had the opportunity. And from what I've seen is just god-awful.

Go to HawkSquawk.com and look how many people want to trade him.

If you gave them a gatorade bottle used by Damon, they would give you Terry.

Really, I think Terry has far more innate skill then most PGs (including Damon), but he is too dumb to know how to use them. He is out of his element at PG and WAY too small to play SG.

Play.


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## dkap (May 13, 2003)

Damon got worse with a better coach and a better system.  

Salaries notwithstanding, I guarantee you if a Damon for JT trade was proposed by Atlanta, the deal would be finalized before Nash set down the phone. Terry may not be the most loved guy in Atlanta, but you seriously underestimate how much Damon is despised around here.

Take the absolute worst things you've said about Terry and you're pretty well summarizing Damon on a good day.

Dan


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## Playmaker0017 (Feb 13, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>dkap</b>!
> Damon got worse with a better coach and a better system.
> 
> Salaries notwithstanding, I guarantee you if a Damon for JT trade was proposed by Atlanta, the deal would be finalized before Nash set down the phone. Terry may not be the most loved guy in Atlanta, but you seriously underestimate how much Damon is despised around here.
> ...


Well, let Nash know he could have Terry for half a ham sandwich (even without cheese).

Again, from what I've seen and a statistical standpoint - I would take Damon. Obviously, for those same reasons you would take Terry.

I just can't deal with a PG who shoots with 22 seconds left on the shot clock. I can't deal with a PG who can't pass the ball. 

Basically, I can't stand a PG who has been bested by 10-day contract NBDL scrubs like Wilks. 

I'm not kidding you - Damon at least runs your offense. Imagine having Dion Glover bring the ball up and set up the offense. DION GLOVER! This guy can't make the bench for most teams -- and he plays the point for the Hawks when he is in the game. When Boris Diaw (a SF from France) is in the game, he runs point. 

Terry is disgusting.

But, we each have our experiences that make us think the way we do. 

I'll get back to this thread after I've seen Damon play alongside Reef for a while. 

Play.


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## gambitnut (Jan 4, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Playmaker0017</b>!
> 
> 
> I just can't deal with a PG who shoots with 22 seconds left on the shot clock. I can't deal with a PG who can't pass the ball.


Instead of dribbling for two seconds and shooting with 22 seconds left, Damon dribbles for 22 seconds and shoots with two seconds left, does that sound better to you? 



> Basically, I can't stand a PG who has been bested by 10-day contract NBDL scrubs like Wilks.


We also have a NBDL player who is a better passer than our starter, his name is Omar Cook.


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## Focus (Feb 13, 2004)

Looks like it is clear that both JT and Damon were amount the top 5 worst PG in NBA. :sour:


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## dkap (May 13, 2003)

> I'm not kidding you - Damon at least runs your offense.


Ah, now we know how extensive your Blazers knowledge is. It's been well documented that this team has virtually no offense to run, so the only running of it Damon is doing is straight into the ground.

Interesting that this debate is centering around 3 'Zona boys.

Dan


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## Playmaker0017 (Feb 13, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>dkap</b>!
> 
> Ah, now we know how extensive your Blazers knowledge is. It's been well documented that this team has virtually no offense to run, so the only running of it Damon is doing is straight into the ground.
> 
> ...


They have an offense to run, it just isn't efficient. 

No team could win in the NBA without an offensive gameplan, much less win.

You complain about Damon, and I understand the complaints and can see some of them, but you have to remember he IS the PG. The PG is the engine. Thus, Damon has been an engine for Portland and drove them to win in the past.

Terry/Bibby were unable to deliver that. Of course, they haven't had the talent (outside of Reef and outside of moving to Sac) that Damon has had. So, maybe Damon looks a little more impressive then he is. 

The limited exposure I have had probably made him look better than he was, especially since I had no stake in the game and was not scrutinizing him like Portland fans. 

On my end, the casual observer with decent understanding of the game, I see a kid that can make a pass and push the ball. He doesn't pick up his dribble and is not stopped by token full court pressure. He isn't prone to turning it over, but doesn't take the calculated risks of elite PGs either. He has an okay shot, that he puts up too much for my liking (although that seems to be the role of PGs lately). He seems to be about two steps beyond his true comfort range. He isn't god awful on defense, but he is small and that hurts him. He doesn't fight through picks extremely well and doesn't seem inclined to bounce out of a double very fast.

That is my estimation over seeing him in limited action, is it about right? 

That is why I see him as an AVERAGE PG rather than a PISS-POOR one. 

He definitely isn't a 13MM (?) a year PG. He is along the range of 3-5MM. 

But, I can look around the league and really only come up with a handful of really great PGs. 

Play.


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## Playmaker0017 (Feb 13, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Focus</b>!
> Looks like it is clear that both JT and Damon were amount the top 5 worst PG in NBA. :sour:


I can live with that.

I can even live with:

Worst PGs:

1. JT
2. Damon 
...


Just not:
1. Damon
2. JT
...

Of course, that may change as I see Reef play with Damon as I will definitely be paying closer attention.

Play.


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## dkap (May 13, 2003)

> No team could win in the NBA without an offensive gameplan, much less win.


It has been written that the team has a mere 4 offensive sets (compared to Memphis' allegedly 100+), and new players in training camp commented that none of them are ever run to completion. Care to explain how you view that as having an offensive gameplan?



> you have to remember he IS the PG. The PG is the engine. Thus, Damon has been an engine for Portland and drove them to win in the past.


You're wrong again. Pippen and McInnis have handled a good deal of the ball handling chores when Damon is in the lineup as a diminutive SG. You know the team is desparate when they: a) try out a very unseasoned Qyntel at the point, b) bring in a CBA point guard, and c) bring in a NBDL point guard the next week.

Damon has played reasonably well in stretches, but in even his best games, he's almost invariably the weakest link on the floor. Doesn't direct the offense and doesn't contain his man on D. Hardly a driving factor behind the team's success.

Dan


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