# Trade for Ray Allen



## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

The Kings are one pure scorer/shooter away from being elite again. Francisco Garcia ain't even close right now, so i say pursue Ray Allen. I don't think it will take as much as some may think to pry Allen away from the Sonics because a.) their team sucks b.) their $ situation is worse. We could send Bonzi Wells, Corliss Williamson, Kevin Martin/Francisco Garcia (not both), Ronnie Price and draft pick to Seattle for Ray Allen and Damien Wilkins (for defense). If Ray Allen is glued to Seattle, then there are a few alternatives. The first is Paul Pierce. I know Danny Ainge re-iterates that Pierce isn't going anywhere, but boston has a glut at shooting guard/small forward, and Ainge also said he wouldn't trade Antoine Walker (where is he now? my point exactly). A third team would need to be involved to bring Pierce to Sacramento, because we can't really give them anything ourselves. the Magic are a possibility because they are willing to give up Steve Francis for less than equal value just to get rid of him. ORL could send Francis to Boston, Pierce and LaFrentz (we'd likely have to take on his contract) come to the Kings, and Orlando gets Bonzi Wells. Insert fillers where necessary. The third guy is actually Steve Francis. We could play him at shooting guard, and he could be explosive. Bonzi Wells would need to be sacrified, along with one of our young SGs, but it would be worth it. Thoughts?


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## Mr. Hobbes (Jul 1, 2005)

No way Ray gets traded to Sac. I just don't see any reason to. I'm not sure bringing Pierce and Artest together will help team chemistry, as they do have a history of pissing each other off. Steve Francis? He's not a SG, and he won't be able to coexist with any other backcourt mate other than a 3pt shooting specialist. And Francis' iso plays will waste Brad's passing talent.


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

WTChan said:


> No way Ray gets traded to Sac. I just don't see any reason to. I'm not sure bringing Pierce and Artest together will help team chemistry, as they do have a history of pissing each other off. Steve Francis? He's not a SG, and he won't be able to coexist with any other backcourt mate other than a 3pt shooting specialist. And Francis' iso plays will waste Brad's passing talent.


the Francis one i give you, but Pierce and Artest also have respect for each other. You can tell. Why not Ray? As I said the Kings are one scorer/shooter like him away from being a hell of a scary team.


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## G-Force (Jan 4, 2005)

You can give up on pursuing Ray Allen right now. We like him here and he likes it here.

Besides, if you want a prime player like Ray, you're gonna have to actually give up something for him. And, uhhh, didn't you just trade away your pure scorere/shooter?

G-Force


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## maKINGSofgreatness (Aug 17, 2003)

G-Force said:


> You can give up on pursuing Ray Allen right now. We like him here and he likes it here.
> 
> Besides, if you want a prime player like Ray, you're gonna have to actually give up something for him. And, uhhh, didn't you just trade away your pure scorere/shooter?
> 
> G-Force


Yeah, we did, that's sort of the point. Then again, I'm sure if Ray dropped off and started shooting 40% and scoring 16ppg game for a few seasons he'd get traded too. 

Back on topic, with the way it's going in Seattle, it wouldn't surprise me if Ray were available this time next season if things don't improve, but it's too soon now. Since they just gave him a boatload of cash, they have to at least try to put it back together. 

But Ray isn't young, and that contract is grotesque. Maybe it would work if he were traded before the deadline this year, but like I said, I find that very unlikely. Too bad, because he is just about perfect for our situation. Elite shooter, great passer, with ball handling ability to help take pressure off Mike.

We should probably invest a draft pick in a shooter if a 4 that fits the system isn't available. Age wouldn't be an issue and it would be much kinder to the salary cap.


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## Mr. Clutch (Jun 5, 2005)

i dont understand why we would try to go after ray, the main thing we need to address is an athletic big man, as much as i love miller we have to get an athletic center in there that can rebound and block shots, the only other thing that we need to address is a decent backup point guard, i still dont understand why we didnt resign eddie house, instead we picked up ason hart, who, while he plays good defense he cannot shoot to save his life (incase you didnt know thats why i left the "J" off his name.)


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## maKINGSofgreatness (Aug 17, 2003)

^Agreed. Physical presence at center is a bigger need for us than shooting guard, and letting House go to bring is Hart looks pretty bad right now.


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## KingByDefault (Dec 6, 2005)

I look forward to seeing Bonzi and Ron play together. They are going to reshape the identity of this team.


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## maKINGSofgreatness (Aug 17, 2003)

I like Bonzi. I think all the Kings posters on here do, and all Kings fans, whether they like him or not, should be happy with his play, he has hit 2 game winners in 25 games this season. But is he a long term solution? He is having his best season in 5 years, and is going to be looking for his last chance at a big payday when he is a free agent.

Can we afford him, can we afford to lose him for nothing like Cuttino, and most importantly, is he what this team needs anymore with Artest? I gotta think the answer to at least one of those questions is no. 

One way or the other, I don't see him as a Kings next year, which is too bad. Hope I'm wrong.


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

G-Force said:


> You can give up on pursuing Ray Allen right now. We like him here and he likes it here.
> 
> Besides, if you want a prime player like Ray, you're gonna have to actually give up something for him. And, uhhh, didn't you just trade away your pure scorere/shooter?
> 
> G-Force


How many people actually READ the ****ing post? THE SONICS ARE IN BAD SHAPE FINANCIALLY AND THEY ARE NOT GOING ANYWHERE THEY SUCK. It would make sense to get rid of Allen to free up a big chunk of salary. Peja is soft as hell and too one-dimensional. Ray can shoot, pass, play some defense, and has better court awareness. I'm not an idiot, i know Peja was traded for Artest. And i said give up Bonzi, Corliss, and K-Mart and one other guy, with draft picks. That's something. And you like him up there? Guess what i liked Chris Webber and Bobby Jackson. Last i looked they aren't on the Kings roster. Fans liking the guy don't mean ****.


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

Mr. Clutch said:


> i dont understand why we would try to go after ray, the main thing we need to address is an athletic big man, as much as i love miller we have to get an athletic center in there that can rebound and block shots, the only other thing that we need to address is a decent backup point guard, i still dont understand why we didnt resign eddie house, instead we picked up ason hart, who, while he plays good defense he cannot shoot to save his life (incase you didnt know thats why i left the "J" off his name.)


backup PG - Earl Watson and a draft pick for Brian Skinner

backup C - trade up in the draft, maybe we can get LaMarcus Aldridge


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

TheBigDonut said:


> How many people actually READ the ****ing post? THE SONICS ARE IN BAD SHAPE FINANCIALLY AND THEY ARE NOT GOING ANYWHERE THEY SUCK. It would make sense to get rid of Allen to free up a big chunk of salary. Peja is soft as hell and too one-dimensional. Ray can shoot, pass, play some defense, and has better court awareness. I'm not an idiot, i know Peja was traded for Artest. And i said give up Bonzi, Corliss, and K-Mart and one other guy, with draft picks. That's something. And you like him up there? Guess what i liked Chris Webber and Bobby Jackson. Last i looked they aren't on the Kings roster. Fans liking the guy don't mean ****.


Just because a team isn't in great shape financially and has been a disappointment the past four months doesn't automatically mean they're going to deal their best player with a bloated contract to your favorite team for discount prices.

This is RobyG1974 logic. His posts were always filled with "Your team is terrible and over the cap, so my proposal to Team X, where they get the superstar for an expiring player and a bunch of mediocre role players makes sense and not only that - is going to happen! So deal with it!"


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

Allen has the fattest contract there, maybe they could deal him in attempt to suck themselves all the way to Greg Oden (a real center instead of that horse**** they have at center). Unless of course they want to be like the Knicks. Who in hell is Rugby1947 or whoever you said.


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## CreeksideBaller (Jun 19, 2005)

Big Donut,

Can you just...leave?


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## Mr. Hobbes (Jul 1, 2005)

TheBigDonut said:


> Allen has the fattest contract there, so they probably should deal him in attempt to suck themselves all the way to Greg Oden (a real center instead of that horse**** they have at center). Unless of course they want to be like the Knicks. Who in hell is Rugby1947 or whoever you said.


Why don't the Kings do it? Why don't everybody do it? What, you expect every mediocre team to trade away their best player and rebuild? You want everybody to tank games in hope that they will land the #1 overall pick?


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

TheBigDonut said:


> Allen has the fattest contract there, so they probably should deal him in attempt to suck themselves all the way to Greg Oden (a real center instead of that horse**** they have at center). Unless of course they want to be like the Knicks. Who in hell is Rugby1947 or whoever you said.


Yeah, trade the franchise player to which you made a $100 million commitment just last summer for a 25 percent chance _at best_ to draft one particular guy two drafts away.

If you were a GM, you'd be fired for even thinking of this.


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## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

Rawse said:


> Yeah, trade the franchise player to which you made a $100 million commitment just last summer for a 25 percent chance _at best_ to draft one particular guy two drafts away.
> 
> If you were a GM, you'd be fired for even thinking of this.


Hey the Bucks traded Ray for Gary Payton... There's always some hope... :biggrin:


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

CreeksideBaller said:


> Big Donut,
> 
> Can you just...leave?


no, i don't think i'll do that.


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

Rawse said:


> Yeah, trade the franchise player to which you made a $100 million commitment just last summer for a 25 percent chance _at best_ to draft one particular guy two drafts away.
> 
> If you were a GM, you'd be fired for even thinking of this.


No one has a clue. The Sonics are no where close to championship, all they have is Allen and Rashard Lewis. If not here, Seattle could deal Allen just to get a big who doesn't suck. Then they might do alright. Nobody on this board, not one, seems to get that there are at least 20 teams closer to a title than them. They have zero financial flexibility, they need to unload players if they don't want to be up to their neck in luxury tax, and again just so everyone can comprehend this, THEY HAVE NO BIG MEN. Robert Swift sucks (ainge better not trade for him). Johan Petro sucks. Danny Fortson is delusional, and he sucks. Potapenko really sucks. Radmanovic is gone after the season, and he's more of a SF anyway. The Oden thing was out there, yes, i give that to you. And yeah, i'm not a gm so i can just let my mind run free...one more thing if i was a GM of Seattle i'd try to screw them as much i can, i hate the Sonics.


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

WTChan said:


> Why don't the Kings do it? Why don't everybody do it? What, you expect every mediocre team to trade away their best player and rebuild? You want everybody to tank games in hope that they will land the #1 overall pick?


read the post. is that what i said?


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## G-Force (Jan 4, 2005)

TheBigDonut said:


> No one has a clue. The Sonics are no where close to championship, all they have is Allen and Rashard Lewis. If not here, Seattle could deal Allen just to get a big who doesn't suck. Then they might do alright. Nobody on this board, not one, seems to get that there are at least 20 teams closer to a title than them. They have zero financial flexibility, they need to unload players if they don't want to be up to their neck in luxury tax, and again just so everyone can comprehend this, THEY HAVE NO BIG MEN. Robert Swift sucks (ainge better not trade for him). Johan Petro sucks. Danny Fortson is delusional, and he sucks. Potapenko really sucks. Radmanovic is gone after the season, and he's more of a SF anyway. The Oden thing was out there, yes, i give that to you. And yeah, i'm not a gm so i can just let my mind run free...one more thing if i was a GM of Seattle i'd try to screw them as much i can, i hate the Sonics.


Frankly you do not know the Sonics so quit pretending that you know what is best for them. Besides, you hate the Sonics.

And if are upset that nobody is buying into your grand scheme, why not give the Sonics front office a call and see what they think about your ideas?

G-Force


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## DANNY (Aug 9, 2005)

TheBigDonut said:


> No one has a clue. The Sonics are no where close to championship, all they have is Allen and Rashard Lewis. If not here, Seattle could deal Allen just to get a big who doesn't suck. Then they might do alright. Nobody on this board, not one, seems to get that there are at least 20 teams closer to a title than them. They have zero financial flexibility, they need to unload players if they don't want to be up to their neck in luxury tax, and again just so everyone can comprehend this, THEY HAVE NO BIG MEN. Robert Swift sucks (ainge better not trade for him). Johan Petro sucks. Danny Fortson is delusional, and he sucks. Potapenko really sucks. Radmanovic is gone after the season, and he's more of a SF anyway. The Oden thing was out there, yes, i give that to you. And yeah, i'm not a gm so i can just let my mind run free...one more thing if i was a GM of Seattle i'd try to screw them as much i can, i hate the Sonics.


ok then the kings should offer the sonics a solid young big right? or maybe some high draft pick so they can have a chance to land either aldridge or bargani?

who they got? no one. so no way will the sonic deal ray allen to the kings.

If the sonics really really had to trade allen which i doubt they would, they would rather trade him to the nuggets and maybe get Nene and K-Mart if thats possible.

The Kings have a better chance of signing spree than getting ray allen.


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## Mr. Hobbes (Jul 1, 2005)

TheBigDonut said:


> read the post. is that what i said?


Yes.



TheBigDonut said:


> Allen has the fattest contract there, *maybe they could deal him in attempt to suck themselves all the way to Greg Oden* (a real center instead of that horse**** they have at center). Unless of course they want to be like the Knicks. Who in hell is Rugby1947 or whoever you said.


I feel I have to say this since you mentioned it twice- Robert Swift does not suck. You obviously haven't seen him play at all.


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## Mr. Hobbes (Jul 1, 2005)

TheBigDonut said:


> No one has a clue. The Sonics are no where close to championship, all they have is Allen and Rashard Lewis. If not here, Seattle could deal Allen just to get a big who doesn't suck. Then they might do alright. Nobody on this board, not one, seems to get that there are at least 20 teams closer to a title than them. They have zero financial flexibility, they need to unload players if they don't want to be up to their neck in luxury tax, and again just so everyone can comprehend this, THEY HAVE NO BIG MEN. Robert Swift sucks (ainge better not trade for him). Johan Petro sucks. Danny Fortson is delusional, and he sucks. Potapenko really sucks. Radmanovic is gone after the season, and he's more of a SF anyway. The Oden thing was out there, yes, i give that to you. And yeah, i'm not a gm so i can just let my mind run free...one more thing if i was a GM of Seattle i'd try to screw them as much i can, i hate the Sonics.


So you hate the Sonics. I hate the Grizzlies. But does that mean I make idiotic threads like 'trade Gasol and suck all the way to Greg Oden?' No. You say you would screw the Sonics as much as you can, so this trade is really only for Sacramento's benefit. You've made yourself clear enough that this trade would not benefit the Sonics. Then why would Rick Sund do it?


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## Mr. Clutch (Jun 5, 2005)

ok now that everybodys done pointing out whats wrong with this topic can somebody please close the thread.


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## CreeksideBaller (Jun 19, 2005)

Please, PLEASE, close this pathetic thread.


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## Mr. Hobbes (Jul 1, 2005)

Free post!


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## DANNY (Aug 9, 2005)

why close the thread its a good discussion

If the hornets and raptors could do it why wouldnt the sonics consider it also. The only thing the sonics shouldnt do is trade Allen for scrubs + draft picks. 

the sonics should consider trading allen and stockpiling draft picks and start rebuilding this team from stratch. By trading allen, hopefully they can get a young big and a draft pick. 

but then its such a high risk that, seattle would never do it. I think their owner is smart enough to know that.


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## pac4eva5 (Dec 29, 2005)

TheBigDonut said:


> backup PG - Earl Watson and a draft pick for Brian Skinner


LOL!!! nice try...

i get the feeling bigdonut really knows NOTHING about the nba. hes probably a bandwagon artest fan or somebody who plays playstation too much...am i close???


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

pac4eva5 said:


> LOL!!! nice try...
> 
> i get the feeling bigdonut really knows NOTHING about the nba. hes probably a bandwagon artest fan or somebody who plays *playstation* too much...am i close???


xbox. :biggrin: 

and go ahead and close the thread. i don't care. buddy i actually do know about the NBA. bandwagon artest fan? not me.


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

dannyM said:


> *why close the thread its a good discussion*
> 
> If the hornets and raptors could do it why wouldnt the sonics consider it also. The only thing the sonics shouldnt do is trade Allen for scrubs + draft picks.
> 
> ...


a good debate never hurt anyone :biggrin: 

I CAN'T BELIEVE I FORGOT REEF IN THIS DEAL. Bonzi Martin Reef Skinner for Allen. There G-Force are you happy yet?


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

G-Force said:


> Frankly you do not know the Sonics so quit pretending that you know what is best for them. Besides, you hate the Sonics.
> 
> And if are upset that nobody is buying into your grand scheme, why not give the Sonics front office a call and see what they think about your ideas?
> 
> G-Force





> Posted by *Creekside Baller*Please, PLEASE, close this pathetic thread.


Waaaaaa...... :verysad: BIG BAD DONUT'S IDEAS AREN'T REFINED ENOUGH FOR THE KINGS FORUM. Waaaaaa...... :verysad: BIG BAD DONUT IS A BAD POSTER.

It's OK G-Force and Creekside Baller. Have yourselves a good cry. It never hurt anyone. :wave:


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## Mr. Hobbes (Jul 1, 2005)

TheBigDonut said:


> a good debate never hurt anyone :biggrin:
> 
> I CAN'T BELIEVE I FORGOT REEF IN THIS DEAL. Bonzi Martin Reef Skinner for Allen. There G-Force are you happy yet?


Well, that actually makes this trade viable. But I'll still pass, we have too many PFs.


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

WTChan said:


> Well, that actually makes this trade viable. But I'll still pass, we have too many PFs.


Danny Fortson too? :biggrin: could use a rebounder


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## Mr. Hobbes (Jul 1, 2005)

That's practically an even deal, but SAR has a history of losing that he hasn't shaken off yet. And it would leave us with Rashard, who says he's gonna opt out after 07. But this would be very nice for the Kings. This trade, while even on paper, would leave the Sonics in mediocrity while giving the Kings a more fearsome trio than the Nets'. Bibby/Allen/Artest? That's insane.


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

WTChan said:


> That's practically an even deal, but SAR has a history of losing that he hasn't shaken off yet. And it would leave us with Rashard, who says he's gonna opt out after 07. But this would be very nice for the Kings. This trade, while even on paper, would leave the Sonics in mediocrity while giving the Kings a more fearsome trio than the Nets'. Bibby/Allen/Artest? That's insane.


SAR's history of losing is because teams don't understand that really he is a small forward. He doesn't have enough size to be a dominant player at power forward.


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## Mr. Hobbes (Jul 1, 2005)

TheBigDonut said:


> SAR's history of losing is because teams don't understand that really he is a small forward. He doesn't have enough size to be a dominant player at power forward.


Right. We have Lewis at SF. And SAR can't guard other SFs. And history proves you can't win with tweeners.


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## maKINGSofgreatness (Aug 17, 2003)

In no way shape or form is Shareef a small forward. He is about as much of a small forward as C-Webb was pre-injury.


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

i guess he's a tweener then. god dammit who's bright idea was it to get the guy...


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

WTChan said:


> That's practically an even deal, but SAR has a history of losing that he hasn't shaken off yet. And it would leave us with Rashard, who says he's gonna opt out after 07. But this would be very nice for the Kings. This trade, while even on paper, would leave the Sonics in mediocrity while giving the Kings a more fearsome trio than the Nets'. Bibby/Allen/Artest? That's insane.


i get it. you want a third team. Kings/Sonics/Magic -

Kings get Allen, Sonics get Steve Francis, Orlando gets Abdur-Rahim. Plus fillers.


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## myELFboy (Jun 28, 2005)

I just found this thread so I'll add some sense to it:

--the GP trade was a different situation.....he was 34/35, in the last year of his deal & was rejected when he asked for a contract extension, & threatened to leave after the season. Rather than just losing him, they got value in return, a legit all-star. The situation with Ray is different....he wanted to resign knowing this team was young, knowing the Key Arena situation, knowing there were no guarantees that they win 50+ games. 

--The contract isn't $100 mil. It's $80 mil + $5 mil in incentives. It's not desireable, but it's not the max either. That was his market value.

--I'm one for rebuilding this season & getting a top 10 pick....THIS season. SO much has happened that it would take a miracle to make the playoffs & be competitive. A nice pick wouldn't be so bad. 

Ray has his problems, but losing him makes the Sonics a joke. Who would be OUR SG? Flip Murray? He should never see playing time on a good team. I understand your team is one piece away from being great....the Blazers are a piece away from being great too. If they had Ray, who knows what they could do....but they don't & they have to deal with it. Sacramento fans need to deal with not having Ray & not getting Ray.


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

myELFboy said:


> I just found this thread so I'll add some sense to it:
> 
> --the GP trade was a different situation.....he was 34/35, in the last year of his deal & was rejected when he asked for a contract extension, & threatened to leave after the season. Rather than just losing him, they got value in return, a legit all-star. The situation with Ray is different....he wanted to resign knowing this team was young, knowing the Key Arena situation, knowing there were no guarantees that they win 50+ games.
> 
> ...


Ah don't worry Ray was last week. I'm over him. :biggrin: 

And I think we can still get to the playoffs this year by doing the following - 

-Start Kevin Martin, bring Bonzi off the bench. Martin has put some nice scoring numbers, so i got in confidence in starting him, and bringing a spark-plug like Wells off the bench would the help the depth a lot.

-Trade for a backup PG who doesn't blow (That means you Hart). Where is BJax...

-Fire Adelman and bring in Don Nelson. He is a winner. only concern is he is like 90 years old.

-In a trade or from within, find some perimeter defense to go with Artest (NO to Murray, i'd rather break the tradition of soft defense not continue it thanks)


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## Mr. Hobbes (Jul 1, 2005)

Adelman and Brad Miller are practically one person. You fire Adelman, you waste Brad Miller. Fire Adelman and trade Miller to whatever team Adelman ends up on.


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## maKINGSofgreatness (Aug 17, 2003)

^ I have been saying this non-stop too. Miller will not be traded for anyone who could possibly be available short of KG while Adleman is around. For better or worse, the offense depends on him. 

Now on the other hand, if we bring in a different coach Miller would not be as valuable to us, because they would try to use him in a traditional way, which he is not so good at. If we bring Don Nelson in, Miller would get like 10 minutes a game. That guy hates centers. He even hates big power forwards.


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## CreeksideBaller (Jun 19, 2005)

Bottom line:

BigDonut is a *retard*.


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

bottom line: CreeksideBaller is a *****-sucker*


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## Mr. Hobbes (Jul 1, 2005)

And heerreeee comes the lock


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

no lock yet :biggrin:


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