# Has Phil Jackson Lost His Mind?



## Cris (Jun 18, 2003)

I know it seems like the trendy thing to do lately and blame Phil Jackson, but really. It's quite obvious he has an obsession with seeing Luke Walton and Derek Fisher getting owned on the floor. 

So very simply, yes or no?


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

I really, truly, honestly believe that he has, indeed, lost his ****ing mind.


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## Nightmute (Apr 12, 2007)

I'm starting to think Phil goes home and beats off to the depth charts with Derek and Walton written in for at least 30 minutes each.


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## DANNY (Aug 9, 2005)

i'm not ready to call him crazy. once he starts playing ammo 10 minutes a game i'll say he lost his mind.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

DANNY said:


> i'm not ready to call him crazy. once he starts playing ammo 10 minutes a game i'll say he lost his mind.


Would Ammo really be ANY worse than Sasha Vujacic or Derek Fisher right now? Would Mbenga be any worse than Bynum?


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## Pinball (Aug 3, 2002)

Phil is like a junkie when it comes to Fisher and Walton. He can't help himself. Mitch needs to play the role of PO and find a way to get those guys off the roster and remove the temptation to play them. Otherwise, Phil will continue to play them in big spots.


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## Nightmute (Apr 12, 2007)

I really hope Luke gets his *** traded this off season.


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## The One (Jul 10, 2005)

Well at times he WILL get off the Fisher wagon like tonight where he did not play in the fourth. But the Walton love affair is obvious and sickning. I remember at the beginning of the season Luke walton was not in rotation and I really thought Phil Dumped the bum...but no *sigh*


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## The One (Jul 10, 2005)

And since when did Phil Become a Sasha Fan? He is playing 100 times worse thn Walton and he still gets playing time; so yes Phil has lost is mind.


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## DANNY (Aug 9, 2005)

Basel said:


> Would Ammo really be ANY worse than Sasha Vujacic or Derek Fisher right now? Would Mbenga be any worse than Bynum?


ammo is pretty bad. looks like he plays with his hand in his shorts. on the other hand, sasha and fisher playing with their eyes closed. tough question man.

mbenga >>>>>>>>>>>>> bynum NO DOUBT! CONGO CASH BABY


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## Piolo_Pascual (Sep 13, 2006)

Man, I love Phil Jacko, but he's senile.


"If they score, they score" though true, its stil disappointing to hear. It seems like he's really not stressing defense nowadays. God I miss old man Winters to check and balance Phil's crazy mind.


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## Piolo_Pascual (Sep 13, 2006)

I think he's not getting enough from Jeannie. This has to be a payback of some sort...


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## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

I still like Phil Jackson. He's a great coach for specific types of teams. Those teams have naturally gifted and experienced defenders, as well as some of the best players to ever walk on the court (MJ, Pippen, Kobe, Shaq, etc). 

But when you have a young team like this, coaches like Larry Brown, Pop, Byron, etc are better suited to coach in my opinion. 

Coaches like Larry Brown take young guys, and get the most out of them on the defensive end. Because they know when you have a young team that may get spoked on the road, you can always fall back on good defense. Offense isn't always going to be there every night, but defense can always be there if you know your roles and come into the season prepared.

There's really no doubt in my mind that this series would be over and we'd be playing the nuggets already if we had a coach like Brown or Pop. 

I'm not saying Phil can't still get us there, he's a brilliant coach. But this team is so poorly disciplined, it's going to be an up hill battle the entire way.


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## Piolo_Pascual (Sep 13, 2006)

Darth Bryant said:


> I still like Phil Jackson. He's a great coach for specific types of teams. Those teams have naturally gifted and experienced defenders, as well as some of the best players to ever walk on the court (MJ, Pippen, Kobe, Shaq, etc).
> 
> But when you have a young team like this, coaches like Larry Brown, Pop, Byron, etc are better suited to coach in my opinion.
> 
> ...



God, it would be such a dream to have Pops and LB (Pops especiially) coaching the Lakers. Outstanding point about Phil and the connection with experienced players. So far he has demonstrated he can't get the young guys over that hump mentally and commit in defense.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

I think after losing the 2004 championship that Phil just doesn't care too much about beating Red Auerbach's record anymore. I think this is his last season regardless. He'd obviously love to have ten championships, but I think he's content to leave with nine.


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## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

The One said:


> And since when did Phil Become a Sasha Fan? He is playing 100 times worse thn Walton and he still gets playing time; so yes Phil has lost is mind.


vujacic has been very good at taking von wafer out of the game, so i can understand him getting playing time. for whatever reason vujacic is allowed to basically foul wafer constantly, but the whistle never blows until it's an offensive foul for wafer. he's basically completely been rendered useless by vujacic and the refs. but other than that, sasha has contributed nothing.


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## Piolo_Pascual (Sep 13, 2006)

rocketeer said:


> vujacic has been very good


Bull ****! Adjective good referring Sasha in positive manner should never be used in the same sentence again.


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## c_dog (Sep 15, 2002)

he was an overrated coach to begin with. not many coaches get two of the most dominant players the world has ever seen, and he got them with MJ and Shaq. a monkey could have coached those teams to championships.


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## JerryWest (Jun 24, 2002)

Pinball said:


> Phil is like a junkie when it comes to Fisher and Walton. He can't help himself. Mitch needs to play the role of PO and find a way to get those guys off the roster and remove the temptation to play them. Otherwise, Phil will continue to play them in big spots.


I've been saying this for the past two years! The only way to not have Fisher or Walton overplayed and lose us a playoff series is to just cut them. Just cut their passes and pay them off. Phil never makes adjustments and is going to play Fisher 30 minutes a game until the day he retires.


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## Kyle (Jul 1, 2003)

c_dog said:


> he was an overrated coach to begin with. not many coaches get two of the most dominant players the world has ever seen, and he got them with MJ and Shaq. a monkey could have coached those teams to championships.


I guess monkeys are better coaches then Doug Collins and Del Harris then because they didn't win anything with Jordan/Shaq & Kobe.

Let's give Phil a little credit. He has 9 championships... I think he knows a little bit more about basketball then us. I definitely would rather have him then Larry Brown or Byron Scott. How does Byron Scott even get in this discussion? He hasn't won a damn thing, he was exiled from New Jersey and his team laid down in round 1 this year. 

Larry Brown is a wash-up and more concerned about stonewalling his team then winning championships. He should be in a GM role. With the Bobcats he won 3 more games then Sam Vincent... wow.. great improvement Larry! I hope Michael likes paying the big bucks for the extra 3 wins.

In 9 years Jackson has coached the Lakers to 3 NBA championships (3 in a row which only 4 other teams have done in NBA History) and 5 finals appearances. There are teams in the league that salivate and would love to sniff round 2 of the NBA playoffs, much less make 5 finals appearances in 9 years. 

People should realize that the grass isn't always greener on the other side (Rudy T anyone?). The Rockets have done what they were supposed to do: win at home. I can see why Phil would be perfectly content, espically after the way LA handled Houston in their last meeting in Los Angeles.


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## clien (Jun 2, 2005)

i have always liked phil. but he has been making questionable decisions in the playoffs for awhile....

Someone made the point that Luke wasn't seeing minutes at the beginning of the season, when we were play at our best, then the playoffs near and Jackson wants to put him in the rotation. Maybe Luke has been impressive in practice, I don't know. But Luke sure is hell hasn't been been producing any positive minutes these playoffs..for christs sake he makes some really dumb passes even- and passing the ball is supposed to be one of his most valued ability(which i've always thought was over-rated)

This series Luke is shooting 30% from the field 28% from 3(all wide open shots). 19 minutes- he should not be getting this many minutes with the way he has been playing

and Fisher has been playing like a rookie all year long..he consistently gets burned- sending our defense into a scramble. And he takes HORRIBLE SHOTS absoluely stupid shots, and phil doesn't do anything about it, nobody says anything and it pisses me off that every1 is ok with some of the shots he takes. Fish is playing so dumb on offense...if fisher is on a fast break i simply assume we aren't going to score- he pulls up from the free throw line in the open court, sometimes it will be him and 3 people from the opposing team, and missing a jumper in the open court often leads to an easy bucket at the other end. Another thing, fisher thinks he's 6'8" sometimes with the layups he shoots- i don't remember the last layup fish took that wasn't swatted.

This series DFish is shooting 29% from the field. 7% from 3(again these should be open shots for the most part, considering his man is helping on kobe/gasol). 24 minues per game. Farmar is getting 19mpg

I remember 1 instance(don't remember which game) when Farmar was in and playing really well with the unit on the floor, hit 2 3's after the whole team was struggling to make anything, Phil pulled him after maybe 3 minutes, Fish comes in and does NOTHING...if the guy is playing well let him ride it out for a little while for god sake especially when Fish has been playing like absolute crap

I also would like to see Josh Powell a little more in games where Bynum is struggling offenseively

...i have a lot more to say, i'll save it for later though


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## elcap15 (Aug 8, 2006)

Its okay everybody. You can pull your heads out of your asses now.


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## Cris (Jun 18, 2003)

elcap15 said:


> Its okay everybody. You can pull your heads out of your asses now.


I am still not convinced.


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## elcap15 (Aug 8, 2006)

Cris said:


> I am still not convinced.


Me either. It sure looks like a lot of people still have their head in their ***.


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## DaRizzle (May 22, 2007)

oh snap


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## afobisme (Apr 29, 2006)

fans are just so wishy washy. i think phil's fine. maybe he's messing up the rotations on purpose, to keep the lakers grounded. i'm not sure how you can go on to win 9 championships and just "lose" that mojo you had.


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## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

afobisme said:


> fans are just so wishy washy. i think phil's fine. maybe he's messing up the rotations on purpose, to keep the lakers grounded. i'm not sure how you can go on to win 9 championships and just "lose" that mojo you had.


If your right the Lakers will win a title this year.

With the talent, Lakers have zero excuses for failure this year.

If no title is won, it's on Phil and Kobe's shoulders.


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## afobisme (Apr 29, 2006)

i wouldn't go as far as to say that, but i think they will play much better against nuggets. and people are making mountains out of moles.


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## elcap15 (Aug 8, 2006)

Darth Bryant said:


> If your right the Lakers will win a title this year.
> 
> With the talent, Lakers have zero excuses for failure this year.
> 
> If no title is won, it's on Phil and Kobe's shoulders.


Bull****. Why do they even play games then? Just have GM's assemble teams and then give the trophy to the team that looks best on paper.

There are a lot of factors that can go into winning or losing games. It is easy to place blame on one person or another but it is never the case. No game is ever won or lost by one player or coach. Suggesting so makes you look foolish.


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## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

elcap15 said:


> Bull****. Why do they even play games then? Just have GM's assemble teams and then give the trophy to the team that looks best on paper.
> 
> There are a lot of factors that can go into winning or losing games. It is easy to place blame on one person or another but it is never the case. No game is ever won or lost by one player or coach. Suggesting so makes you look foolish.


I love Kobe. One of the greatest players to ever step foot on the court. Even with the ups and downs, from the Shaq trade, to the calling Bynum out on tape, wanting to be traded, etc. I've always stuck by him. I'm not a homer though, so I've always been able to point out his faults.

However, if the Lakers get to the finals again, and he has another series that resembles the two finals appearances before it, then I will call him out. As well as Phil Jackson if he makes zero changes throughout the entire series, and lets them work it out.

Kobe always wanted a team that could get to the finals, and he said he would lead them to the promise land. He demanded Lakers build now or trade him. He called the owner of the team an idiot, because they didn't make hasty or erratic trades. He's done a lot of talking and crying (some justified, some not), and too the credit of the Lakers organization, they stepped up and built him a team ready for contention right now.

You can't get all the glory when they win, and expect no repercussion if they lose. It's that time in Kobe's career where he either has to put up or shut up. _For the record, I believe Kobe will show the world this year why he's still the best. However, I thought that before and was wrong._

Phil can't keep gambling with his rotations because he likes old gimps. And Kobe can't keep costing if they expect to get to the finals and win it all.


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## elcap15 (Aug 8, 2006)

^^ That whole post sounds great but doesnt have any foundation. Kobe can have the best series of his career, and the Lakers wont win a game if the rest of the team doesnt show up. Pau has to rebound and defend and take advantage of single coverage in the post. Our perimeter guys have to hit 3 pt shots. Bynum is going to have to be game 7 Bynum and not game 6 Bynum. As a TEAM, they are going to have to rotate on shooters and collapse in the paint. Etc. etc. etc.

Basketball is a team sport and a team effort. That is why sometimes a team with a lot of individual talent doesnt stack up against a team with less talent that has pieces that fit together well.

You just cant say that everything hangs on Phil and Kobe. Its ridiculous and unfair. 

If the Cavs go to the finals, then does LeBron have "zero excuses" and will the loss be on his shoulders? Dont forget, the Cavs won more games than the Lakers this year. They are a very good team and Im sure they are willing to disagree that the Lakers have zero excuses for not winning a championship.


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## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

elcap15 said:


> ^^ That whole post sounds great but doesnt have any foundation. Kobe can have the best series of his career, and the Lakers wont win a game if the rest of the team doesnt show up. Pau has to rebound and defend and take advantage of single coverage in the post. Our perimeter guys have to hit 3 pt shots. Bynum is going to have to be game 7 Bynum and not game 6 Bynum. As a TEAM, they are going to have to rotate on shooters and collapse in the paint. Etc. etc. etc.
> 
> Basketball is a team sport and a team effort. That is why sometimes a team with a lot of individual talent doesnt stack up against a team with less talent that has pieces that fit together well.
> 
> ...


I never argued that the team wouldn't have to be involved to win and that Kobe and Phil alone would be responsible. Sure guys have to hit open shots.. Sure guys have to play well in the post.

But Kobe is the leader of this team. His last two finals appearances, despite what the rest of the team did, were pathetic for someone of Kobe's talent. From a decision making stand point, to a shot selection and defense stand point, he simply failed to get it done. 

The rest of the team failed to show up as well.. That's fine, but the rest of the ream doesn't make 20 million+ a year to go out there and be that difference maker. The majority of players on this team don't make as much as Phil Jackson per year, to go out and be the best coach in the league. Rest of the team didn't win MVP, or first team all defense.

As for the Lakers lack of excuses, what is a good excuse if they don't win it all? Lack of talent? Gasol isn't good enough? Odom off the bench isn't good enough? To many young guys like Ariza and Brown? I mean seriously, what excuse aside from a major injury, would be good enough for the Lakers to fail against the Cavs? 

Sure, I think the Cavs talent wise are underrated. But they sure as hell aren't on par with the Lakers talent wise in my opinion. They might be better team defenders, but it's not because of talent... It's because they have a coach who makes defense a priority. 

Only two ways I see Lakers losing a series to the Cavs is if Kobe doesn't show up, or Phil Jackson gets out coached, or a combination of both. The match up suits the Lakers well, inside and out.


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## elcap15 (Aug 8, 2006)

Darth Bryant said:


> *I never argued that the team wouldn't have to be involved to win and that Kobe and Phil alone would be responsible.* Sure guys have to hit open shots.. Sure guys have to play well in the post.
> 
> Only two ways I see Lakers losing a series to the Cavs is if Kobe doesn't show up, or Phil Jackson gets out coached, or a combination of both. The match up suits the Lakers well, inside and out.





Darth Bryant said:


> With the talent, Lakers have zero excuses for failure this year.
> 
> If no title is won, it's on Phil and Kobe's shoulders.


lol


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## DaRizzle (May 22, 2007)

You know ElCap, I invited Darth over to watch a game with us sometime next season...I know you are totally owning him right now but he's still a good guy. Torrance>>>Long Beach Darth!!!! :lol:


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## elcap15 (Aug 8, 2006)

DaRizzle said:


> You know ElCap, I invited Darth over to watch a game with us sometime next season...I know you are totally owning him right now but he's still a good guy. Torrance>>>Long Beach Darth!!!! :lol:


Hey no hard feelings! The more Laker fans the better! Besides, different opinions make for much better discussion.


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## DaRizzle (May 22, 2007)

Just giving you some healthy razzing Darth :cheers:


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## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

DaRizzle said:


> You know ElCap, I invited Darth over to watch a game with us sometime next season...I know you are totally owning him right now but he's still a good guy. Torrance>>>Long Beach Darth!!!! :lol:


You guys are friends in real life? That explains it all.... :evil:


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## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

elcap15 said:


> lol


My main point was Kobe and Phil will and should shoulder the burden blame if there is no title this year. Doesn't mean everyone else will go blame free. But they will take the biggest hits, as they should. Kobe got a big check. Phil got a big check. Kobe promised a title with talent, he's got it now. Deliver the goods and move on to greatness including all the glory and praise that goes along with it. Or fail a third time in the finals, and get they trashing that comes along with it. Either version is justified in the end. 

In the end, if your team isn't getting it done... The star player, and MVP still has to preform. Kobe has willed victories against tough teams with far less surrounding him talent than he has right now. He is capable of doing that again, in the finals. Been plenty of playoff games in past history, that MJ had to get it done even with his team struggling. Thats why guys like MJ, Kobe, Magic are superstars. 

But if you want to setup a bit of an early defense for Kobe, and have some excuses ready to go before the finals even get here.. Thats fine too. Kobe first fans always protect the image at all costs. :grinning:


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## DaRizzle (May 22, 2007)

Darth Bryant said:


> You guys are friends in real life?


Unfortunately...He was friends with my good friends younger brother. Then he found out how awesome I am and he forced his friendship on me...I just keep him around cause his girlfriend is easy on the eyes.


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## elcap15 (Aug 8, 2006)

Darth Bryant said:


> My main point was Kobe and Phil will and should shoulder the burden blame if there is no title this year. Doesn't mean everyone else will go blame free. But they will take the biggest hits, as they should. Kobe got a big check. Phil got a big check. Kobe promised a title with talent, he's got it now. Deliver the goods and move on to greatness including all the glory and praise that goes along with it. Or fail a third time in the finals, and get they trashing that comes along with it. Either version is justified in the end.
> 
> In the end, if your team isn't getting it done... The star player, and MVP still has to preform. Kobe has willed victories against tough teams with far less surrounding him talent than he has right now. He is capable of doing that again, in the finals. Been plenty of playoff games in past history, that MJ had to get it done even with his team struggling. Thats why guys like MJ, Kobe, Magic are superstars.
> 
> But if you want to setup a bit of an early defense for Kobe, and have some excuses ready to go before the finals even get here.. Thats fine too. Kobe first fans always protect the image at all costs. :grinning:


I hear ya. 

There has been such an outcry lately against Phil, I feel like I just need to interject and tell everybody to chill the **** out. Whenever teams lose there is a knee jerk reaction to try and place the blame on an individual which isnt fair. Superstars get most of the heat, and Kobe is at the top of the list and rightfully so. In the end this is a team game, and no one wins or losses without their team, and that includes the coach.

Phil coached this team to 65 wins and (so far) a 2-0 series record in the 2009 playoffs. So what Im really trying to say is everyone needs to back the **** up and calm the **** down.

****


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## DaRizzle (May 22, 2007)

only you are using profanities...maybe YOU should "Back the **** up and calm the **** down" :banana:


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## elcap15 (Aug 8, 2006)

Darth Bryant said:


> You guys are friends in real life? That explains it all.... :evil:


I dont even really like him, but he had an HD TV before anyone else I knew.




J/K love ya DaRizz


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## elcap15 (Aug 8, 2006)

DaRizzle said:


> only you are using profanities...maybe YOU should "Back the **** up and calm the **** down" :banana:


I felt like that added a little something.

EVERYONE BE CALM!!!!! THERE IS NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT!!!!!


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

I should get all the Lakers fans from BBF to come over and watch the game. I have a 72" DLP HDTV. Hooray for BestBuy discounts!


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## DaRizzle (May 22, 2007)

elcap15 said:


> I dont even really like him, but he had an HD TV before anyone else I knew.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well its my roommates and its the only reason why I chose him as a roommate...We should get "Nybrain" to upgrade and put this 37" in his bedroom!


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## DaRizzle (May 22, 2007)

Basel said:


> I should get all the Lakers fans from BBF to come over and watch the game. I have a 72" DLP HDTV. Hooray for BestBuy discounts!


Yes invite us over! Ill be your friend!!!!!!!


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

DaRizzle said:


> Yes invite us over! Ill be your friend!!!!!!!


:laugh:


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## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

Fire him. What a bum.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

Phil Jackson is awesome...

...

...

What?


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## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

Seriously, after the career he has had, you have to give him the benefit of the doubt even if some his decisions on rotations and handling of players appears to be strange at first glance. He is pulling this every single year and obviously it's working. As long as you don't have access to the locker room and whatnot, it's pretty hard to figure out the in between stuff, but you would have to imagine that Phil Jackson is pretty empathic and knows how to draw conclusions based on what he sees and feels. I don't care how many Hall of Fame type players you have coached, 12 NBA Finals appearances is utterly ridiculous.


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## afobisme (Apr 29, 2006)

croco said:


> Seriously, after the career he has had, you have to give him the benefit of the doubt even if some his decisions on rotations and handling of players appears to be strange at first glance. He is pulling this every single year and obviously it's working. As long as you don't have access to the locker room and whatnot, it's pretty hard to figure out the in between stuff, but you would have to imagine that Phil Jackson is pretty empathic and knows how to draw conclusions based on what he sees and feels. I don't care how many Hall of Fame type players you have coached, 12 NBA Finals appearances is utterly ridiculous.


exactly my sentiments.


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## Bartholomew Hunt (Mar 4, 2003)

croco said:


> Seriously, after the career he has had, you have to give him the benefit of the doubt even if some his decisions on rotations and handling of players appears to be strange at first glance. He is pulling this every single year and obviously it's working. As long as you don't have access to the locker room and whatnot, it's pretty hard to figure out the in between stuff, but you would have to imagine that Phil Jackson is pretty empathic and knows how to draw conclusions based on what he sees and feels. I don't care how many Hall of Fame type players you have coached, 12 NBA Finals appearances is utterly ridiculous.


Notice how the lead got shrunk when Sasha and Farmar were on the court? Notice how the lead grew when they weren't on the court? That's all we were asking for. I will take common sense over credentials any day of the week. We're not saying fire the man, but no man is invincible to criticism.


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## Piolo_Pascual (Sep 13, 2006)

yeah, phil really had some unquestionable coaching decisions from a casula fan's POV, mainly in the houston series, i mean seriously, fisher was shooting 20% and you see shannon brown and jordan farmar on the bench. jackson played his cards right in games 5 and 6 against denver though and the result was not surprising. phil is the best, but he can also be stubborn.


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## JerryWest (Jun 24, 2002)

Phil has had questionable decision making for the entire playoffs. The fact that we won the series has more to do with Kobe playing out of his mind than Phil's coaching.

Phil's aweful rotations almost single handedly cost us both this and the Houston series.


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## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

Bartholomew Hunt said:


> Notice how the lead got shrunk when Sasha and Farmar were on the court? Notice how the lead grew when they weren't on the court? That's all we were asking for. I will take common sense over credentials any day of the week. We're not saying fire the man, but no man is invincible to criticism.


Notice how teams don't just roll over opponents in the Conference Finals ? The Lakers were -3 with Farmar and -1 with Vujacic on the court, not a big deal. You need to have a certain sense of entitlement to believe all of that. Common sense doesn't always equate to the best solution, otherwise coaching, building a team and chemistry would be pretty simple.


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## Lynx (Mar 6, 2004)

:jester: @ azn kobe jr, Basel, ceejaynj, Cris, Damian Necronamous, Darth Bryant, KennethTo, Nightmute, VeN


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## Bartholomew Hunt (Mar 4, 2003)

croco said:


> Notice how teams don't just roll over opponents in the Conference Finals ? The Lakers were -3 with Farmar and -1 with Vujacic on the court, not a big deal. You need to have a certain sense of entitlement to believe all of that. Common sense doesn't always equate to the best solution, otherwise coaching, building a team and chemistry would be pretty simple.


Don't spout off stats without taking specific scenarios into account. I watched the games not only this season, but the postseason. It is without question that the team consistently performed better with Shannon Brown rather than Jordan Farmar on the court, and more often than not with Fisher on the court this postseason. Again, this is a forum, where we discuss anything and everything pertaining to our favorite team based on what we see. Brown consistently out played Farmar and elevated the play/energy of his teammates. Therefore, we can conclude that Brown should play over Farmar. Again, we are not suggesting in anyway that Phil is not an excellent coach. We are merely pointing out the obvious. Do you know what happens when athletes or anyone for that matter move to the point where they are beyond criticism? Not much good often comes from it. Ego swells up and you make contrarian decisions because you have the credentials to do just that and nobody should dare criticize you. Maybe the athlete gets lazy, balloons in weight, postpones surgery until right before the season starts, etc. My point is that nobody is immune to criticism. Those rings are bright, but not bright enough to blind me.


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## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

He should't be immune to criticism and he is not. It's impossible to stay on top for 20 years if you are not willing to listen to critics and learn. Do you realize how hard it is to go to the Finals two years in a row ? In the last 20 years, three coaches have accomplished that on one occasion (Rudy Tomjanovich, Jerry Sloan and Byron Scott) and Phil Jackson seven times, that's the entire list. Shannon Brown is an energy guy who would struggle mightily if he had to play more minutes and a bigger role.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

Everyone that is (was) calling for Phil's head is insane. Same insanity we heard in 2004 that lead to even more *****ing and moaning with Rudy T and Hamblem on board.

Phil is the best coach in NBA history, he will make mistakes, but we are far worse off without him. I know we get heated during losses, but remember that before we make foolish statements again. Calling for Phil to be replaced is just stupid, no sugar coating about it.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

I never once said I wanted Phil out as coach - I just said I did think he lost his mind (and it felt like he did there for a while). But he's adjusted great in these playoffs and I expect nothing but the best coaching decisions in the Finals. He knows what's at stake.


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

Jamel Irief said:


> Everyone that is (was) calling for Phil's head is insane. Same insanity we heard in 2004 that lead to even more *****ing and moaning with Rudy T and Hamblem on board.
> 
> Phil is the best coach in NBA history, he will make mistakes, but we are far worse off without him. I know we get heated during losses, but remember that before we make foolish statements again. *Calling for Phil to be replaced is just stupid, no sugar coating about it.*


I agree, BUT IMHO these Finals will dictate how Jackson should be regarded as a coach after all it's said and done.
The Lakers have HCA.
The Lakers have no significant injuries.
They will play a team (roster, not franchise) that has never been to the Finals. 

All seems to be favouring the Lakers.

So, if the Lakers don't win it all, some eybrows SHOULD be raised concerning Jackson. And Kobe.


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## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

Jamel Irief said:


> Everyone that is (was) calling for Phil's head is insane. Same insanity we heard in 2004 that lead to even more *****ing and moaning with Rudy T and Hamblem on board.
> 
> Phil is the best coach in NBA history, he will make mistakes, but we are far worse off without him. I know we get heated during losses, but remember that before we make foolish statements again. Calling for Phil to be replaced is just stupid, no sugar coating about it.


As long as he delivers a title, I'll be happy.

If he runs line ups that revolve around Fisher, Sasha, and Walton in the finals the majority of the time and Lakers lose because of it. I'll be open to some new blood coaching.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

Basel said:


> I never once said I wanted Phil out as coach - I just said I did think he lost his mind (and it felt like he did there for a while). But he's adjusted great in these playoffs and I expect nothing but the best coaching decisions in the Finals. He knows what's at stake.


If you didn't say it don't defend yourself. Some fans clearly did (do) want Phil to be removed.


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## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

Jamel Irief said:


> If you didn't say it don't defend yourself. Some fans clearly did (do) want Phil to be removed.


Not sure, if your referring to me or not. Since I'm probably the most vocal of my issues with Jackson so far in this post season, I'll assume that you where. 

I'd still trade Pop for him in a second. No matter how this season finishes, because I like Pop's coaching style more. Doesn't mean I hate Phil Jackson, just means I like Pop better.


I've always maintained that Jackson's been a poor defensive coach for the most part since taking back the coaching job with the Lakers. He might even have been a poor coach defensively through the dynasties that earned him those immunity to criticism rings.. I mean lets face it, you don't really need a defensive specialist coaching guys like Shaq in the paint with a prime Kobe in the backcourt, or Pippen and MJ in your backcourt. 


With all that said, I've also always said that as long he delivers the title than I will be happy as a fan. It shouldn't be to hard for someone with his experience to make some tough decisions, that might hurt some some of the older players feelings... Fisher shouldn't be starting, or at the very least playing as many minutes as he was in either the Houston series, or the Denver series. Apparently Phil finally agreed, in the final two games against the Nuggets, he choose to play Famar more, and Brown to close out the fourth(s)... And I'm sure to everyones surprise, the Lakers won those two games fairly easily. It's nothing personal against fisher, but age sucks and he's not as good as he used to be.


With a team like Orlando, and the finals format for HCA... Phil Jackson will need to coach nearly perfect throughout the series in my opinion. Especially, if there is any chance at a "certain" PG returning for the Magic in time for game one...... That means less Fisher and Sasha, more Farmar and Brown.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

Darth Bryant said:


> Not sure, if your referring to me or not. Since I'm probably the most vocal of my issues with Jackson so far in this post season, I'll assume that you where.
> 
> I'd still trade Pop for him in a second. No matter how this season finishes, because I like Pop's coaching style more. Doesn't mean I hate Phil Jackson, just means I like Pop better.
> 
> ...


No I didn't really include you. I only include fans that don't want the Lakers to bring back Phil, which would mean they feel an AVAILABLE coach would do a better job. Poppovich is not going anywhere. Than again you made a comment about Jeff Van Gundy so maybe I should include you.

It's fine with me that you don't agree that Phil is best coach in history, it's also fine to question his decisions. However, once again, if you want him to be fired than you are the ones that lost your mind.

Poppovich starts Matt Bonner by the way since you aren't aware. He aspires to be as good as an old Derek Fisher.


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

Phil is clearly better than a vast majority of coaches out there. Problem with him nowadays is just plain age; he's getting to the point where he's literally too slow to react to lineup changes from the opposition forcing him to wait for a dead ball situation before he can adjust. That's just age. He was a better coach earlier in the decade with the Shaq Lakers just based on his reaction times on the court. It's the sort of thing you have to watch closely, but it definitely exists. Cleamons, Rambis, Hamblin, etc. have had to be more proactive but Phil restricts their vocality for pecking order reasons (which I think is very sensible actually, because one of the reasons Phil is so great is that he establishes a repertoire and commands respect from everyone, including the coaching staff). He instills confidence by not flipping out. Etc. 

But facts are facts, and his age (and physical impairments) combined with his stubbornness with triangle-fits over defense and rotating lineups with Fish, Sasha, and Walton during critical stretches, especially the former two players who are in a terrible funk, have always been his flaws and to me is just dangerous gambling so late in the season. You have to run your starters into the ground in some respects at this point in the season. It has always been a flaw, and thankfully we've seen the front office's drafting and trades completely change the face of this team so that Jackson has more to work with. But without question his defensive philosophy is flawed, and his age is becoming an issue. Not being able to travel to that Portland game was minor and in no way does it speak poorly of him as a coach, but it does say he probably should consider retiring. Whether they win or not this season, he has probably taken this team as far as they can go instructionly. That will forever stick with these players and *always* remain invaluable.


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## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

*cough*

Sorry, couldn't resist.


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## Lynx (Mar 6, 2004)

:lol:

I love bumps!


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## DaRizzle (May 22, 2007)

Pinball said:


> *Phil is like a junkie when it comes to Fisher* and Walton. He can't help himself. Mitch needs to play the role of PO and *find a way to get those guys off the roster and remove the temptation to play them. Otherwise, Phil will continue to play them in big spots.*


Lose




elcap15 said:


> I hear ya.
> 
> There has been such an outcry lately against Phil, I feel like I just need to interject and tell everybody to chill the **** out. Whenever teams lose there is a knee jerk reaction to try and place the blame on an individual which isnt fair. Superstars get most of the heat, and Kobe is at the top of the list and rightfully so. In the end this is a team game, and no one wins or losses without their team, and that includes the coach.
> 
> ...


Win


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