# Artest in NY? What do you think?



## reives21 (Jan 14, 2003)

I was thinking, If I.Thomas can't pull off any deals involving Kevin Garnett, Jermaine O'Neal, Pau Gasol, Vince Carter and maybe even Rashard Lewis, do you think he will try and trade for Ron Artest? A few days ago, Hoopshype.com reported that I. Thomas does not want to ruin the chemistry inside the locker room w/ the young core of players but Ron Artest's trade value is at a very low point and the owner of Sacramento Kings stated he doesn't expect to get much in return for Ron Artest. Ron Artest is still probablly a top ten defender and his offensive abilities are good too. But would it be worth trading for him?


----------



## eymang (Dec 15, 2006)

It would fit in with Isiah's plan of rebuilding the 'rebuilding' Bulls


----------



## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

reives21 said:


> I was thinking, If I.Thomas can't pull off any deals involving Kevin Garnett, Jermaine O'Neal, Pau Gasol, Vince Carter and maybe even Rashard Lewis, do you think he will try and trade for Ron Artest? A few days ago, Hoopshype.com reported that I. Thomas does not want to ruin the chemistry inside the locker room w/ the young core of players but Ron Artest's trade value is at a very low point and the owner of Sacramento Kings stated he doesn't expect to get much in return for Ron Artest. Ron Artest is still probablly a top ten defender and his offensive abilities are good too. But would it be worth trading for him?


Bad idea. He couldn't get his act together before, so why now? We're young, rebuilding and are actually getting better. There's no point in risking that especially considering that Artest isn't the kind of guy that should be apart of a rebuilding project.


----------



## reives21 (Jan 14, 2003)

I think we should make a run at him. We can get him for peanuts. Maybe trade off Jerome James and a second rounder for Artest. Kings are desperate to move him so if all else fails w/ Garnett,J.O'Neal,P.Gasol, V.Carter,R.Lewis and anyone else I.Thomas is trying to get, maybe we can get a steal for him.


----------



## USSKittyHawk (Jul 22, 2005)

reives21 said:


> I think we should make a run at him. We can get him for peanuts. Maybe trade off Jerome James and a second rounder for Artest. Kings are desperate to move him so if all else fails w/ Garnett,J.O'Neal,P.Gasol, V.Carter,R.Lewis and anyone else I.Thomas is trying to get, maybe we can get a steal for him.


He will make 7.4 million next season, which is peanuts to Dolan, and can opt out after that. It all depends on who we have to give up for him. He is an extreme head case, but I've always had love for the him, just as long as he takes his medication and I'm being all so serious about that. On the other hand, I think the pressure will be worst because of his money hungry siblings from Queensbridge that he has to dodge on a consistent basis and playing in New York will only intensify that. I just think it all boils down to who we have to give up, so if he fails mentally then we didnt lose much when we received him.


----------



## Krstic All-Star (Mar 9, 2005)

I don't know if bringing him into a young team without strong locker-room leadership is the best idea, aside from the points already made about New York City itself.


----------



## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

Thomas wont trade for artest unless he is in a desperate situation , He has coached him before and ron-ron nearly tore the team apart , he didn't make an attempt at all for him when he was available last season , also ron artest and j'oneal dont get along 

Ron Artest is a great talent but he is not a good fit for a yong team which is why the bulls traded him to the pacers in the 1st place , he needs an established unit like the heat or the spurs to play on, with dominant stars and personalities already there.


----------



## USSKittyHawk (Jul 22, 2005)

^ Good point Grinch and KAS, but damn we could use some defensive toughness. We are a tad soft.


----------



## Roca (May 16, 2007)

Hmmm there's no doubt still about Artest's potential it's just whether he can unlock it all which looks highly impossible right now considering every place he has gone he has caused some ruckus or ****,and even in Sacramento, he hasn't exactly been like an Angel there and that's not an exactly big chore, as it isn't really bad in Sacramento and on the contrary its actually quite nice, not that i been there(going in the summer )but he still has played to his max, which make me feeling really annoyed at what a waste he has been, and i New York despite him being a good play i think his career will deteriorate and decay even more! Basically he is decline(his career........ well his attitude too but apart from that back on topic.)not that he has ever really gone up but as they say '_You can take the boy out of the ghetto, but you can't take the ghetto out of the boy_'. And sadly, this seems true with Artest


----------



## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

reives21 said:


> I think we should make a run at him. We can get him for peanuts. Maybe trade off Jerome James and a second rounder for Artest. Kings are desperate to move him so if all else fails w/ Garnett,J.O'Neal,P.Gasol, V.Carter,R.Lewis and anyone else I.Thomas is trying to get, maybe we can get a steal for him.


I think the Kings would rather buy out Artest's contract than take on a bad player that will not contribute to the team. It makes alot of sense especially considering Artest's buyout would be less than paying a guy like Jerome James because James' contract lasts longer.


----------



## Zuca (Dec 4, 2003)

Jeffries and a 2nd rounder for him sounds better than Jerome James and a 2nd...


----------



## reives21 (Jan 14, 2003)

First off the bulls traded Artest for Jalen Rose. I don't know if you guys remember but J.Rose was actually good back then and Ron Artest was up and coming.

Secondly, When did we trade for Jermaine o'neal? Last time I checked he wasn't on our team so why would it matter if Ron Artest and Jermaine O'neal don't get along? Maybe if we landed Jermaine O'Neal, I wouldn't trade for Ron Artest but remember, Larry Bird and Isiah Thomas despise each other. They will not make this happen so for anyone who believes Jermaine O'Neal is coming to NY needs to wake up cause before you know he will either be playing against the Knicks in a Pacers uniform or maybe a Lakers uniform and if he's not wearing any of those two then it will be another Western Conference team.

I was thinking Jefferies and a 2nd Rounder for Artest too, but I would try and get rid of Jerome James first. :cheers: 

I also don't see any other options for trading Artest. Los Angeles Lakers? Why would sacramento deal w/ one of their biggest rivals, I guess maybe by shipping Ron Artest to the lakers, the kings hope to break them down mentally?

I really think if the Kings trade Ron Artest it will be to an Eastern Conference team. Either to Miami, NY or maybe Philly


----------



## JonMatrix (Apr 8, 2003)

My question is how did he get along with Crawford during the 2-3 years they played together? Or even Curry? Although it was Curry's rookie season and he really didn't see the floor until after Artest and Brad Miller were traded...their past, if any, is significant to how the team could gel...if thats even possible for a roster featuring Ron Artest.

I'd say right now Jeffries and Nate for Artest and filler. This is assuming that Francis is bought out/traded and that Isiah decides to make Mardy Collins the backup PG.

PG- Marbury/Mardy
SG- Crawford/QRich
SF- Artest/Balkman
PF- Lee/Frye
C- Curry/James

or if Isiah wants to spread the floor:

PG- Marbury/Mardy
SG- Crawford
SF- QRich/Balkman
PF- Artest/Lee (sixth man)
C- Curry/Frye

-Artest outweighs most PFs and is stronger than most of them also.

Benefits of having Ron Artest on the team:
- Increased defensive intensity as a team.
- A lockdown defender who can still shut down most SF's and I would bet a lot of the face-up PF's...he is a little slow to stop the SGs now as he has lost some quickness since his Chicago/early Indiana days.
- Balkman can learn from him and grow into an even better defender.
- Isiah has coached him before and there were no arrests or anything like that off court (that I can remember)

Possible cons of having him:
- Artest's ego and demand to be a main option on offense could be too much for the other players to deal with.
- Artest is from New York and could run into some trouble back in his old stomping grounds.
- It is unknown to me how well he got along with Crawford and Curry when he was their teammate with the Bulls.


----------



## Kiyaman (Aug 14, 2006)

reives21 said:


> I was thinking, If I.Thomas can't pull off any deals involving Kevin Garnett, Jermaine O'Neal, Pau Gasol, Vince Carter and maybe even Rashard Lewis, do you think he will try and trade for Ron Artest? A few days ago, Hoopshype.com reported that I. Thomas does not want to ruin the chemistry inside the locker room w/ the young core of players but Ron Artest's trade value is at a very low point and the owner of Sacramento Kings stated he doesn't expect to get much in return for Ron Artest. Ron Artest is still probablly a top ten defender and his offensive abilities are good too. But would it be worth trading for him?



*As BOLD as Ron Artest is his ALL-AROUND Talent and hard work ethics would help out Isiah Thomas running this Knick Team greatly.* 

Ron Artest would have Eddy Curry running the floor and playing defense, he will have Frye shooting above 50% for the season, he will teamup with Marbury on the pick n roll and give n go for a much needed score. 
Ron Artest hustling talent would go great with David Lee & Balkman running small-ball in the frontcourt. Ron Artest would give the Knicks roster the confidence they lacked all this past season. 

The trade for Ron Artest is the Kings may except Jerome James or even Jared jefferies in that trade along with one of the Knicks young players too. The whole thing about given up one of the Knicks young players for Ron artest is that all of the Knicks young players talents will improve tremendously with a teammate like Ron Artest leadership on the court (with Artest reminding each teammate of their positions on certain plays.).


----------



## shookem (Nov 1, 2005)

It certainly is something interesting for the Knicks and I've enjoyed reading the pro's and cons discussed in this thread.

Artest, Curry and Lee is a pretty tough, gritty, yet gifted frontcourt.


----------



## reives21 (Jan 14, 2003)

I think if the Knicks can add Ron Artest for Jared Jeffries and a 2nd rounder or Jerome James plus filler for Ron Artest plus filler could help the Knicks compete for the East. Eddie Curry I believe will have a monster year next season, David Lee will continue to improve his game and continue to bring the intensity onto the court. If you have knicks playing together they can really take the east if they make this trade happen. Imagine :thinking: 

Knicks lineup w/ Ron Artest VS Pistons (Proven Winners)

Marbury/Collins or Robinson --- Billups/Delfino
Crawford/Richardson --- Hamilton/Hunter
Artest/Balkman --- Prince/Murray
Frye/Lee --- Wallace/McDyess
Curry/??? --- Webber/Mohammad

Pound for pound I think the knicks would be able to match up w/ probablly the best of them in the East. Of course the Pistons have more experience playing together then the Knicks but that you develope over time. One other point alot of us are overlooking, imagine Q. Richardson and Ron Artest playing on the floor together at the same time. Ron Artest is a great defender w/ Q Rich next to him they would be probablly be the best defensive SG/SF comb. Q Rich can rebound very well for a SG/SF and Ron Artest plays excellent defense, making steals and shutting down the opponents. We need Artest on the knicks to be able to stop Lebron James or another big body SG/SF that the knicks have trouble with. I think I.Thomas should def. make a run for Artest giving up as little as possible.


----------



## Kiyaman (Aug 14, 2006)

The only thing that bothers me about the Ron Artest trade is the Two Brother Owners of the Kings will want David Lee or Balkman in this trade. 
And Isiah Thomas can not be trusted anymore after the Ariza trade, plus not resigning and matching the cheap offer of Jackie Butler (whom had chemistry with his Knick teammates).


----------



## reives21 (Jan 14, 2003)

Kiyaman said:


> The only thing that bothers me about the Ron Artest trade is the Two Brother Owners of the Kings will want David Lee or Balkman in this trade.
> And Isiah Thomas can not be trusted anymore after the Ariza trade, plus not resigning and matching the cheap offer of Jackie Butler (whom had chemistry with his Knick teammates).



Lets remember Larry Brown wanted to make that deal. Larry Brown told I. Thomas and J.Dolan that S. Francis was just what the knicks needed to make a push for the playoffs and we all know how that turned out. The Knicks have a surplus at the guard position so I can see them make a Jared Jefferies/N.Robison for Ron Artest/Filler. The Kings hurt themselves by coming out and saying they will be trading Ron Artest and are not expecting much in return. So no team in the NBA will give Sacramento anything much worthy of the talent Ron Artest can produce. Basically I think Kings will take what they can get or they will buy him out. Either or I think Artest has played his last game in a Kings uniform.


----------



## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

reives21 said:


> First off the bulls traded Artest for Jalen Rose. I don't know if you guys remember but J.Rose was actually good back then and Ron Artest was up and coming.
> 
> Secondly, When did we trade for Jermaine o'neal? Last time I checked he wasn't on our team so why would it matter if Ron Artest and Jermaine O'neal don't get along? Maybe if we landed Jermaine O'Neal, I wouldn't trade for Ron Artest but remember, Larry Bird and Isiah Thomas despise each other. They will not make this happen so for anyone who believes Jermaine O'Neal is coming to NY needs to wake up cause before you know he will either be playing against the Knicks in a Pacers uniform or maybe a Lakers uniform and if he's not wearing any of those two then it will be another Western Conference team.
> 
> ...



At this point and time, I believe Larry Bird might actually find himself on the hot seat. If Jermaine O'neal does in fact demand a trade, I do not believe he has the option of sending him to a team that he "likes." Larry would have to go for the deal that brings in the most talent, too buy him enough time to solve the issues that will remain with the current Pacers squad. If any of you have taken the time to look into the Pacers financial situation, they are meered in long term deals to not so distinguished players. On top of that, these players have had a series of injuries that actually threaten their longevity during the course of this season. Due to O'Neal's contract and due to their situation, it is unlikely they'll be able to solve any of those problems overnight through a trade. This is why I believe all teams will be heavily considered by Larry Bird, Don Walsh (who has the real control of the team) and the Pacers front office. 

This same kind of reasoning can be applied with any trade involving the Kings and Lakers for Artest. That rivalry has been dead for sometime now, so there's no point in holding any sort of grudge against each other. The key players during that former rivalry are all gone aside from Kobe and Bibby, so why would these organizations cling to the past? This is a business, first and foremost, and the main agenda of business is to improve your standing from the past. Coming trade time, I do not think either side will care very much about anything other than improving their teams.


----------



## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

JonMatrix said:


> My question is how did he get along with Crawford during the 2-3 years they played together? Or even Curry? Although it was Curry's rookie season and he really didn't see the floor until after Artest and Brad Miller were traded...their past, if any, is significant to how the team could gel...if thats even possible for a roster featuring Ron Artest.
> 
> I'd say right now Jeffries and Nate for Artest and filler. This is assuming that Francis is bought out/traded and that Isiah decides to make Mardy Collins the backup PG.
> 
> ...


Another Con that often goes overlooked when bringing Artest into discussions about how he'd fit on our team is on offense. I don't know if anyone noticed this besides myself and a close friend of mine but Artest is the kind of guy that stagnants an offense, evident by his tenure with the Kings. Prior to arriving in Sacramento, the team had a free wielding offense where everyone saw the ball and the person with the best look took the shot. Not only did Artest effectively bring that ball movement to a halt, he also purposely took the ball out of PG Mike Bibby's hand and rendered him into nothing more than a jump shooter. This is essentially where all the problems with Mike Bibby and Artest arose and probably was the first step to Artest's departure from the Kings. Could you imagine Artest chucking up shots in spite of Marbury and Curry being the two offensive cornerstones of the team? I don't think this is a good idea at all, even on the court.


----------



## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

Kiyaman said:


> *As BOLD as Ron Artest is his ALL-AROUND Talent and hard work ethics would help out Isiah Thomas running this Knick Team greatly.*
> 
> Ron Artest would have Eddy Curry running the floor and playing defense, he will have Frye shooting above 50% for the season, he will teamup with Marbury on the pick n roll and give n go for a much needed score.
> Ron Artest hustling talent would go great with David Lee & Balkman running small-ball in the frontcourt. Ron Artest would give the Knicks roster the confidence they lacked all this past season.
> ...


Artest did not improve the Kings' confidence significantly when he was there nor did he improve players individually. I'll agree that the Kings were a better team after trading for him but that simply was because Peja Stojackovic (who I mentioned for years was overrated) hardly gave the team anything. After that one year, we all saw what happened and confirmed the fact that Artest is not a guy that you throw into any situation and came out better. I think he needs a veteran team that can learn to accept him as a person and embrace him. After all these years of people calling him crazy and thinking he's a bad guy, I think he just needs a big brother to help keep his emotions in check and show him that he's not an outcast and has people there for him outside his family. At this point, we are not prepared as an organization to offer that and would be better served going after a guy like Gerald Wallace who is doing what we would like Artest doing for us.


----------



## Kiyaman (Aug 14, 2006)

TwinkieFoot said:


> Artest did not improve the Kings' confidence significantly when he was there nor did he improve players individually. I'll agree that the Kings were a better team after trading for him but that simply was because Peja Stojackovic (who I mentioned for years was overrated) hardly gave the team anything. After that one year, we all saw what happened and confirmed the fact that Artest is not a guy that you throw into any situation and came out better. I think he needs a veteran team that can learn to accept him as a person and embrace him. After all these years of people calling him crazy and thinking he's a bad guy, I think he just needs a big brother to help keep his emotions in check and show him that he's not an outcast and has people there for him outside his family. At this point, we are not prepared as an organization to offer that and would be better served going after a guy like Gerald Wallace who is doing what we would like Artest doing for us.


The Kings needed help on offense/defense in alot of areas (they were a 400% team) before Artest arrived. Bobby Jackson, Peja, and then Wells picked up the speed when Bibby got tired and was slowing down in games, when Wells was the last to leave that left Bibby (Alone) needing some veteran help in the backcourt against the Western Conference Guards this past season. 
The Kings Frontcourt Bigmen Martin and Brad needed Ron Artest to help with the rebounds and defense vs oposition BIGMEN majority of his playingtime. 
But Bibby 40 MPG needed Artest help more in the Backcourt. 

The Knicks do have that BIG-Brother for Artest, in Brooklyn Starbury whom talent would gleem better with Artest on the court with him. Marbury would not mind Artest rebounding and running the point on a fastbreak or setting him up for a jumpshot. 
The Curry and Artest tandem may have problems, but not Artest with Channing Frye, or David Lee, or Balkman.


----------



## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

Kiyaman said:


> The Kings needed help on offense/defense in alot of areas (they were a 400% team) before Artest arrived. Bobby Jackson, Peja, and then Wells picked up the speed when Bibby got tired and was slowing down in games, when Wells was the last to leave that left Bibby (Alone) needing some veteran help in the backcourt against the Western Conference Guards this past season.
> The Kings Frontcourt Bigmen Martin and Brad needed Ron Artest to help with the rebounds and defense vs oposition BIGMEN majority of his playingtime.
> But Bibby 40 MPG needed Artest help more in the Backcourt.
> 
> ...


Artest would be a great fit with New York if he wasn't so unstable. I think the question is not whether he could play for us but whether he won't be suspended or taking time to promote a rap album. He's just too dominant a personality that would be in not so stable a situation. I doubt we'd be able to reap his true potential as a result of his uneasiness. Outside of defense and hustle, what does he really give us that we don't already have? I do not believe anything and that is something that could be filled by a guy like Gerald Wallace in my opinion but minus the combustability.


----------

