# Knick fans Isiah has traded away our future to be mediocre!



## Keith Closs (May 13, 2003)

Isiah has basically moraged our future to make the playoffs and be a medicore team for a few years..


We have no draft picks and no cap room to make any big moves and we are basically stuck with this slow unathletic bad defnesive team we have...

Do we all agree? disagree?


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## OG (Aug 12, 2003)

he pulled off a few unlikely trades, so there's a chance he'll continue trading. anything's still possible, but as for the draft & FA, you're right, they don't concern the knicks


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## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

Yawn.

We we've been out of the free agent running since Layden signed Houston in 2001, and will have stayed out of it until Houston's contract expires in 2007. That's old news and has NOTHING to do with Isiah.

Isiah traded this years first round pick. We still have a second rounder. He also traded another first rounder that probably wont be confered until 2010 or there abouts.

So can we please get over the cap nonesense that has and will haunt the Knicks for eternity, and realize in the near term we are talking about 1 first round pick, the same as Layden traded for Mark Jackson, who was here and sucked for all of a year?

Where where you then when Layden mortgaed our future for a nearly retired scrub?

Yawn.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

If you consider No show Vujanic,Lampe and a late first round draft pick our future,then I guess you guys are right..

But if most of this concern of our future is based on the fact that we got swept by the Nets,then I think its a bit of an over reaction...

We played the Nets at 60% and really much less when you factor in Shandon Anderson playing......I have to believe a healthy H20 and TT would have been worth at least 10 points and probably a couple of games againt a very good Nets team at full strength...

There are way too many "what ifs" to be overly concerned with the Knicks at the current time......

We dont know how good an in shape Sweetney can be,what Frank Williams is capable of,and if TT getting "fugazied" will finally put some fire in his game....

And who the hell knows what Baker can do with 12 months of being on the wagon....

We do know that Naz plays NO D,KT is not a post presence and we desparately need some offense off the bench..Is it DJ??maybe,maybe not ..

If we have learned anything IT will make changes....


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## Perennial All Star (Aug 13, 2003)

With a name like Keith Closs you know nothing about basketball and you aren't a Knick fan.


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## urwhatueati8god (May 27, 2003)

He traded away 15 million in expiring contracts for Marbury, the best PG in Europe who said he would be coming over next season, a guy that should have gone in the lottery, and another LOTTERY PICK for Marbury and Hardaway, each of whom will be making 14.625 million next year and are signed through 2005-2006. I'm fine with just Marbury, but through in Hardaway and that's one more overpaid mediocre-at-best SG that we didn't need, and once again puts us well over the cap, and there is no way KT should have gotten that extension with Sweetney here.


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## DrFunk03 (May 13, 2003)

He did way too many trades in a short period of time which ruined team chemistry.


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## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>urwhatueati8god</b>!
> 
> He traded away 15 million in expiring contracts for Marbury, the best PG in Europe who said he would be coming over next season,


That "best PG in Europe" doesn't even play PG now and he averages 1.8 assits per 2.0 turnovers. He was probably right, he may not have beaten out Eisley.

He also NEVER said he'd be coming to the Knicks next year. He intimated that he MIGHT go to the Suns but that he doesn't want to talk/think about it until his season is over. With their frugal stance it's very possible they wont be able to meet his terms and that of his team (who also have right sot him) unless they strike out in the FA market.



> a guy that should have gone in the lottery, and another LOTTERY PICK


I assume by "another lottery pick" you mean if we had done nothing this year to make the playoffs. There was no way in hell that Dolan would have allowed nothing to happen. As soon as it was clear that McDyess was not going to be the savior, which happened quite quickly as we went on a losing streak as soon as he began to start, and his knee got worse well before it got better, trades were going to start flying. You might not like Marbury, but if it weren't going to be him I shudder to think who it might have been.




> for Marbury and Hardaway, each of whom will be making 14.625 million next year and are signed through 2005-2006. I'm fine with just Marbury, but through in Hardaway and that's one more overpaid mediocre-at-best SG that we didn't need, and once again puts us well over the cap,



The cap we were/are never going to get under in our generation. We are going to trade our way to talent, beginning with the trade deadline in the 05/06 season. But if you really want to get under the cap it can happen in the summer of '07... same as it ever was. That is when Houston and Shandon
s contracts expire. The ones Isiah had NOTHING TO DO WITH!!!!!!!



> and there is no way KT should have gotten that extension with Sweetney here.


Even if Sweetney starts youstill need an able backup, and if Deke is traded, as is likely, KT can backup center. And he's NOT over priced. If he is then show me all the other guys on the block with similar stats for less!!!


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## MagnusPinus (Aug 27, 2003)

The team simply couldn't find the chemistry.. Next season will be better but remember that to create a great team u need time,.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

> The cap we were/are never going to get under in our generation. We are going to trade our way to talent, beginning with the trade deadline in the 05/06 season. But if you really want to get under the cap it can happen in the summer of '07... same as it ever was. That is when Houston and Shandon


Thank you OAK...this is the major point you guys overlook...H20's contract KILLED us...It was a MAJOR gaff by Layden as he bid against himself and anted up an extra 30 million...game,set,match...

That contract has another 3 years and until then we are screwed.IT and Dolan know this and decided they would rather stay competitive till then and in 2007 enter the free agent market..So what does it matter if we have Pennys contract or not??WEe are just biding time,hoping Sweetney,Williams or Demarr pays off and then when all of laydens garbage is gone we enter the free agent market....

There was no other choice


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## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

Right, this business that Isiah put us in cap hell is bull. Don't poeple realize we were at 90M before Isiah got here? It was being spent on Houston, Anderson, Eisley, Spoon, and Van Horn. NONE of their contracts ended before 05/06, the others ended 06/07. With the exception of Marbury, that is still the case!!! Penny's contract is no longer than Eisley and Spoon, they guys he was traded for, and TT's ends before Van Horn. And the killer contracts are stil the same as they ever were, Houston and Anderson, which both expire 06/07.

You people b!tch because your cap space is being spent on Marbury and Penny, but it's okay to spend it on a cripple Houston, Eisley, Andserson, Spoon, and VH????


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## Knicksbiggestfan (Apr 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Keith Closs</b>!
> Isiah has basically moraged our future to make the playoffs and be a medicore team for a few years..
> 
> 
> ...


Repost.


This team has no future. One trade to many, 4 lottery picks for one good guy yada yada.

I miss those progie sandwiches from russian deli's. They don't have those here.


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## Knicksbiggestfan (Apr 29, 2003)

Also, everyone whines about Houston.

Shutup. Seriously shut your god damned mouth. He might be overpaid but at least he is worth something. If he was making 8-9 mil a year, even 10, you wouldn't whine as much.

It's ****ers like Shandon Andersen who bring this team down.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

4 lottery picks?????

we kept sweetney....

no show vujanic????Ill take frank williams

lampe..time will tell

the 15th pick this year??no big deal

a conditional pick???who cares????we are talking 2010

NOBODY said h20 cant play,except the doctors and his knee...Everyone moans that the moron Mr layden overpaid him and crushed us.....

The point is,we were screwed by layden until 2007 so what is the big deal if we take on more bad contracts as long as they expire by 2007??


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## JT (Mar 1, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Knicksbiggestfan</b>!
> Also, everyone whines about Houston.
> 
> Shutup. Seriously shut your god damned mouth. He might be overpaid but at least he is worth something. If he was making 8-9 mil a year, even 10, you wouldn't whine as much.
> ...


I CAN'T BELIEVE HE JUST DID THAT! 5 STARS. :laugh: :yes: :grinning:     :djparty: :wiz: :dogpile: :headbang: :rofl: :mob: :jump:


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## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

who *****ed about houston, me when i asked why people ***** about being over the cap when it was houston and anderson who guaranteed we'd be over till '07? don't tell me you don't see a relationship between houstons contract and the cap.

you gotta go with the cali-mex food over there.


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## JT (Mar 1, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>son of oakley</b>!
> who *****ed about houston, me when i asked why people ***** about being over the cap when it was houston and anderson who guaranteed we'd be over till '07? don't tell me you don't see a relationship between houstons contract and the cap.
> 
> you gotta go with the cali-mex food over there.


it's not H2O's fault that you could find better management at your local McDonalds than Layden.


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## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jtx</b>!
> 
> 
> it's not H2O's fault that you could find better management at your local McDonalds than Layden.



and from my posts you think i believe otherwise? here's a free piece of advice, work on your reading comprehenshion skills before you take your ACTs.


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## JT (Mar 1, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>son of oakley</b>!
> who *****ed about houston, me when i asked why people ***** about being over the cap when it was houston and anderson who guaranteed we'd be over till '07? don't tell me you don't see a relationship between houstons contract and the cap.


Are these not your words? Houston and Anderson didn't *guarantee* anything, twas Layden. You are making it seem like it is their fault for signing on the dotted line. Keep attacking me though if it makes you feel good over the internet.


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## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

i deride layden's signings on a daily basis around here, i thought it woulod be pretty obvious what i meant. nothing personal.


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## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

I'd like to try to get things back on track here if I may. 

Let's look at this fixation to get under the cap. As I said elsewhere, in the time period of 1.5 - 2.5 years from now we will have 60M in expiring contracts to trade for talent. Most big name FAs are maxed out and make around 15M/yr. So you need to dump soo much talent to get that much under the cap, which is now at 42M, to get one. You need to be running on a threadbare 27M annual payroll to land Kobe. That's hard to do and still have talent for him to play with. But we will have 4 times that 15M to trade with.

Who were the big free agents in the past few years? Please help refresh my memory, but I'm thinking Kidd, Duncan, Jermaine. They all stayed with their teams. Who were the second teir players? I'm thinlking Richard Hamilton. He stayed with Detroit. Under those guys who was impressive? 

But who got traded this year? Marbury, Rasheed, SAR.

This year, we have Kobe, who may well stay with the Lakers. After him we have guys like Camby and Dampier. Are either of them better than Marbury, Rasheed, SAR?

Most big FA's stay with their team. Every once in a while a big name FA moves to another team, but my guess is, by and large, year-in year-out, we see more big names move teams via trade than FA. We should be in a good position to be big players in the trade market in 1 to 1.5 years.


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## urwhatueati8god (May 27, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jtx</b>!
> it's not H2O's fault that you could find better management at your local McDonalds than Layden.


Don't forget better people to sort out the salary cap problem working in Enron's accounting department.


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## Fordy74 (May 22, 2002)

You cant stop Keith Closs, you can only hope to contain him. Just ask Shaq:


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

With a healthy team next year, the Knicks will win 40+ games.

If your starters are all healthy, you have a very good team. You could even be a top 4 seed next season.


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## knicksfan (Jan 4, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jtx</b>!
> 
> 
> Are these not your words? Houston and Anderson didn't *guarantee* anything, twas Layden. You are making it seem like it is their fault for signing on the dotted line. Keep attacking me though if it makes you feel good over the internet.



is this rashidi?


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## The True Essence (May 26, 2003)

no thats not rashidi. simply cause that post is bashing layden for giving them those contracts.

where is rashidi anyway??? we should all protest his suspension or banning. he had weird point of views, but at least he backed them up. the board just hasnt been the same


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## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

From what I saw Rashidi was only banned for 3 days. Then he became THE COOKIE MONSTER. I think the season ending has much to do with the fall off on the board.


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## SKiP (Jan 28, 2004)

I don't know what you guys are whining about. The Knicks still have a pretty good lineup and its 2004 right now. The bad contracts will be up by 2007 so thats only 3 years. By that time guys like Sweetney, Frank Williams, DerMarr Johnson will reach their potential and NY will only get better. At worst the Knicks will be a playoff team and if Isiah keeps majority of this lineup together they could become more of a team. He should wait til 2007 before he makes any more big moves. 

KNICKS
pg - Starbury / F. Williams
sg - H20 / Penny / Shandon
sf - TT / DerMarr
pf - Sweetney / Baker
c - Nazr / KT


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## Knicksbiggestfan (Apr 29, 2003)

We've been ****ed over for so long we can say stuff, like only 3 years. 

Amazing.


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## THE COOKIE MONSTER (Apr 27, 2004)

I AM THE COOKIE MONSTER NOT WHOEVER THIS RADISHI IS STOP SAYING THAT I AM SOMEONE I AM NOT SON OF OAKLEY


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## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

Unfortunately COOKIE, I believe you are Rashidi, and Rashidi has demonstrated himself to be a liar, so I don't believe you.


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## dcrono3 (Jan 6, 2004)

Hey, I believe COOKIE isn't Rashidi, if simply because their posting styles are so different.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

i think there is a Rashidi lurking within the Cookiie


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## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>dcrono3</b>!
> Hey, I believe COOKIE isn't Rashidi, if simply because their posting styles are so different.


No man, this is a weakly veiled attempt at subterfuge. Sort of like writing with your off-hand to avoid handwriting detection. But I've spotted some things in their mental make-up that have convinced me of their sameness, perhaps I'll break it down if challenged by the MONSTER to do so.

It's nothing I can prove beyond a shadow of a doub, but I trust my instincts. And mind you I wasn't the first or only to make the connection.


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## THE COOKIE MONSTER (Apr 27, 2004)

THANK YOU DCRONO AT LEAST I HAVE A FRIEND IN ONE PERSON HERE


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## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

Rashidi had friends here too, he just abused them.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

> But I've spotted some things in their mental make-up


Cmon,its definetly Rashidi....Once again Oak,we are on the same page..He had a couple of slip ups where you could see it was Rashidi....



> THANK YOU DCRONO AT LEAST I HAVE A FRIEND IN ONE PERSON HERE


Rashidi did have lots of friends as well..He just never knew it or accepted it..I miss Rashidi...but i dont miss his pals,Howard Scotty and hopefully Shandon


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## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>truth</b>!
> 
> 
> Cmon,its definetly Rashidi....Once again Oak,we are on the same page..He had a couple of slip ups where you could see it was Rashidi....


Yup, and I think they were intentional, like even the serial killers who want to get caught.





> Rashidi did have lots of friends as well..He just never knew it or accepted it..I miss Rashidi...but i dont miss his pals,Howard Scotty and hopefully Shandon


Right, when I say he abused his friends, it wasn't even with the occasional sniping and arguing, some of us thrive on that, it was ALWAYS being argumentative, never conversational; being totally self indulgent after someone told him to take his Eisley love to the Phoenix board such that he'd make any slightly OT topic about his hurt feelings; and finally lying that his girlfriend was first raped, then killed. If you accept people as your friends you f*ck with them like that.


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## dcrono3 (Jan 6, 2004)

Just trying to be objective here. COOKIE has his points which I often don't agree with but he is not like Rashidi in my mind. Yeah there is a chance that this is Rashidi in disguise but using Occam's razor, COOKIE is probably just COOKIE. I would rather discuss B-ball stuff instead of all of this Rashidi stuff but I must admit that it does bring a bit of drama and fun to this board.


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