# Let's play GM



## da bully (Oct 17, 2006)

whats up celtics fans, i was just wanted to see from your side what it would take or how long before the celtics would be willing to trade pierce. if i were the bulls gm i would be offering ben gordon and luol deng what do you guys think?


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

*Re: lets play gm*



da bully said:


> whats up celtics fans, i was just wanted to see from your side what it would take or how long before the celtics would be willing to trade pierce. if i were the bulls gm i would be offering ben gordon and luol deng what do you guys think?




cmon you have to be more realistic than that...ben gordon and luol deng is not even close to equal value for pierce...you would also have to throw in the knicks first rounder this year and tyrus thomas along with filer to cover the cap difference


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

*Re: lets play gm*



#1AntoineWalkerFan said:


> cmon you have to be more realistic than that...ben gordon and luol deng is not even close to equal value for pierce...you would also have to throw in the knicks first rounder this year and tyrus thomas along with filer to cover the cap difference


And take Wally. :clown:


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

*Re: lets play gm*

Hinrich is a must. Knicks '07 and Luol Deng are nice, too


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

*Re: lets play gm*



aquaitious said:


> And take Wally. :clown:




o god yes...pierce and wally for hinrich, deng, gordon, thomas, nys first and pj brown...does that work? lol


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## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

*Re: lets play gm*

Kirk Hinrich is an absolute requirement for this trade. Without him, we aren't even talking.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

da bully said:


> whats up celtics fans, i was just wanted to see from your side what it would take or how long before the celtics would be willing to trade pierce. if i were the bulls gm i would be offering ben gordon and luol deng what do you guys think?


If Paxson were willing to part with Gordon, Deng, and a first Pierce'd already be a Bull. Unfortunately for you Bulls fans he's too chicken**** to pull the trigger on a trade.


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## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

Deng, Gordon, and a 1st wouldn't be nearly enough to get Paul Pierce from any team I'm the GM of. If they get Hinrich in there somehow, then maybe. 

Can you imagine how scary the Bulls would be if they got Pierce _and_ Szczerbiak?


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## da bully (Oct 17, 2006)

i checked wallys stats and he averageing 24 pionts a game. and as far as the trade idea, i was just wondering simply because you guys are going nowhere with him so we would be taking him off your hands and giving you good young talent in return. a chance to rebuild so to speak.maybe even trade for garnett.


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## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

You thought you'd take Pierce "off our hands"? ROFL. You don't give away Top 10 players just because your team isn't winning.


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## agoo (Jun 1, 2003)

We'd deal Pierce for more 1/2/3 kiddos and picks?

Isn't that how we got into this mess to begin with?


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## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

To be fair, these "kiddos" are already established, starting caliber NBA players. The ones we have now are not.


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## agoo (Jun 1, 2003)

This is true P-Dub.

However, what is the sense in dealing a guy that you build around for the guys that you put around him?


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## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

I agree with you completely, actually. Trading Pierce for pieces doesn't make any sense.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

P-Dub34 said:


> Deng, Gordon, and a 1st wouldn't be nearly enough to get Paul Pierce from any team I'm the GM of. If they get Hinrich in there somehow, then maybe.


I'm only going from the reports last January of what the Celtics were looking for for Pierce. And Danny nearly dealt P-2 to the Bulls in 2004 for a shot at Gordon (but Paxson wasn't willing to part with Gordon and prospects). So Danny had a sweet tooth for Gordon.



P-Dub34 said:


> Can you imagine how scary the Bulls would be if they got Pierce _and_ Szczerbiak?


Not terribly frightening as they'd be exponentially worse on the defensive end. Szczerbiak really needs to be on a team whose primary options are at the 1 & 4 so that his team can put a defensive stopper at the other wing spot. Give the Bulls a good slasher to draw defensive coverage and their jumpshooters are fine. The problem they have is that they're _too_ perimeter oriented.


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## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

To be fair, their defense would be exponentially worse because they'd be losing Deng and/or Hinrich.


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

da bully said:


> whats up celtics fans, i was just wanted to see from your side what it would take or how long before the celtics would be willing to trade pierce. if i were the bulls gm i would be offering ben gordon and luol deng what do you guys think?


For the Bulls to acquire Paul Pierce:

The Bulls need to send Ben Gordon, Luol Deng, P.J. Brown, and the Knicks; 1st round pick to Boston for Pierce, Brian Scalabrine, and Tony Allen.

The Chicago Bears trade Lance Briggs and Muhsin Muhammed to the Patriots for Junior Seau and Doug Gabriel. The Bears also waive DE Tommie Harris to sign with the Pats.

The Chicago Blackhawks trade Nikolai Khabibulin to the Boston Bruins for cash considerations and a thing of Smarties.

The Chicago Cubs trade Derrek Lee to the Red Sox for Hee Seop Choi.

The Chicago White Sox trade Jermaine Dye, Mark Buehrle, and Freddy Garcia to the Boston Red Sox for Manny Ramirez, Matt Clement, and Devern Hansack.

And finally....any Chicago sports board regular has to put something positive in their sig about a New England team of the same sport. Oh, one more thing - by me food during all you can eat night at Papa Gino's. Every Tuesday. Fair?


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

P-Dub34 said:


> To be fair, their defense would be exponentially worse because they'd be losing Deng and/or Hinrich.


Nocioni is fine starting opposite Pierce. But given the quality of of offensive wing players these days, starting Pierce & Szczerbiak puts you in a gigantic defensive hole. It really has to be one of the poorest defensive pairings in the NBA. Danny should have bit the bullet and included Big Al to make an Artest trade work. He needs to lose either Pierce and Szczerbiak and replace them with someone like Artest or Gerald Wallace (and to be clear it has to be someone that can cover both the 2 & 3).


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## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

I agree completely Pierce/Wally is an atrocious defensive pairing. That's why, if the Bulls got the two, they couldn't play both of them at the same time. I was all for Davis/Al for Artest...would have been an absolute steal.


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## SPIN DOCTOR (Oct 31, 2002)

TheBigDonut said:


> For the Bulls to acquire Paul Pierce:
> 
> The Bulls need to send Ben Gordon, Luol Deng, P.J. Brown, and the Knicks; 1st round pick to Boston for Pierce, Brian Scalabrine, and Tony Allen.
> 
> ...



Is that all???

Keep Papi Gino's and your appetite out of it and you got yourself a deal!

By the way... where would you like the Sears tower, Buckingham fountain, and Wrigley field delivered?

Every year the same reheated crap starts up, the bulls are going to give up Gordon (16ppg), Deng (18ppg) & the potential for Greg Oden for a superstar that can opt out in a year. PP would be nice, but even Shaq signed longterm got moved for much less than that. The Bulls would not do that


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## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

If the Bulls want to be legit contenders, they'd do it.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

Pierce signed a contract extesnion through the '09-'10 season with a player option for the following year.

Once again, Hinrich is a must.


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

SPIN DOCTOR said:


> Is that all???
> 
> Keep Papi Gino's and your appetite out of it and you got yourself a deal!
> 
> ...


Not much of Bears, White Sox, or Blackhawks fan i see...

You want more? Derrek Lee for Hee Seop Choi. :angel: 

And I'd love to have the Sears Tower, Wrigley Field, and that other thing delivered. I'll stick those in my backyard.


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## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

If we could get that Chicago pick via NY (do they have it? Or was it used to get Tyrus?), as well as Hinrich/Deng or Gordon, I'd have to really think about it. We'd be staring two top 5 picks in the face, in all likelihood.


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

P-Dub34 said:


> If we could get that Chicago pick via NY, as well as Hinrich/Deng or Gordon, I'd have to really think about it. We'd be staring two top 5 picks in the face, in all likelihood.


No with the lottery and Celtics luck lately, I'd be something like the 3rd and 13th picks.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

With the third pick, Kevin Durant or Thaddeus Young would be available.


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## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

If you consider how far this team would tank without Pierce at the helm, we'd even have a chance of getting a pick higher than #3.


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

Durant's a nice consolation prize. I've never heard of Thaddeus Young.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

TheBigDonut said:


> I've never heard of Thaddeus Young.


bbb Prospect Profile


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

Thaddeus Young


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

So he's a perimeter player? Don't we have enough of those? I'd much rather try and get a big man. Although I would take Thaddeus Young if I had to. Looks pretty good, I just question our need for him.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

He's a franchise perimeter player, unlike Gerald Green and like Paul Pierce, who he would replace.

Hinrich + Young + Deng [?] is worth trading Pierce, as we would have another top five selection, along with the Knicks, resulting in another potential franchise player.


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

Premier said:


> He's a franchise perimeter player, unlike Gerald Green and like Paul Pierce, who he would replace.
> 
> Hinrich + Young + Deng [?] is worth trading Pierce, as we would have another top five selection, along with the Knicks, resulting in another potential franchise player.


Hmmm...you made that sound interesting. I'm intrigued now. :biggrin:

If there is a year to suck, this is that year I guess.


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## da bully (Oct 17, 2006)

i dont know what you guys are thinking, the last time i checked the celtics are currently 1 and 5 and going straight to nowhere. unloading pierce and taking two young potential stars would send you guys in the right direction not to mention you would have pierces money off the books. which would allow you guys to persue free agents.


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

no free agent in their right mind will sign with the celtics...nevermind a pierce-less celtics filled with a bunch of teenagers...getting pierce "off the books" is the least of our problems


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

da bully said:


> i dont know what you guys are thinking, the last time i checked the celtics are currently 1 and 5 and going straight to nowhere. unloading pierce and taking two young potential stars would send you guys in the right direction not to mention you would have pierces money off the books. which would allow you guys to persue free agents.


With Wally and Ratliff making around 30 million? I don't think so.


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## da bully (Oct 17, 2006)

so basically you guys are saying that the celtics are in bad shape. i think that the celtics are going to wait until its too late and they dont get much for pp before they decide to trade him. similar to the lakers and shaq.


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

right now Caron Butler + Lamar Odom > Shaq...i know they dont have butler anymore but that trade was fair for both sides so thats a mute point


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## DWest Superstar (Jun 30, 2005)

#1AntoineWalkerFan said:


> right now Caron Butler + Lamar Odom > Shaq...i know they dont have butler anymore but that trade was fair for both sides so thats a mute point


I don't care if Shaq plays on one leg, he wins you games, more than Butler + Odom, without a doubt.


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

DWest Superstar said:


> I don't care if Shaq plays on one leg, he wins you games, more than Butler + Odom, without a doubt.




kinda like last night against the rockets and Yao...o wait...


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## Aznboi812 (Nov 9, 2005)

trade theo and perkins for ben wallace lol


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## SPIN DOCTOR (Oct 31, 2002)

#1AntoineWalkerFan said:


> right now Caron Butler + Lamar Odom > Shaq...i know they dont have butler anymore but that trade was fair for both sides so thats a mute point


I have not seen either CB4 or Lamar showing off their championship rings. Washed up, old shell of his former self, Shaq has double the value of that duo. Neither one of two has anywhere near the impact of Shaq in a 7 game series, have some respect for three NBA championships.


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## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

Not sure who the player is that needs respect for three championships - however Shaq has four rings.


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## SPIN DOCTOR (Oct 31, 2002)

Causeway said:


> Not sure who the player is that needs respect for three championships - however Shaq has four rings.


How did he get that fourth ring? That right, defending champs, was that after he was all washed up or did it happen over this summer?
Thanks for the assist.


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## Aznboi812 (Nov 9, 2005)

so what kind of free agent can replace pierce? nobody


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

Aznboi812 said:


> so what kind of free agent can replace pierce? nobody


No realistic free agent can, but a high selection in an amazing draft may eventually replace him.


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## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

It's time to trade Pierce.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

da bully said:


> so basically you guys are saying that the celtics are in bad shape. i think that the celtics are going to wait until its too late and they dont get much for pp before they decide to trade him. similar to the lakers and shaq.


I'm not sure why you Bulls fans bother with these "We'll take Pierce off your hands" scenarios when you know they're, well, bull****. The fact is that the Celtics don't need to trade Paul Pierce to end up with a top 5 pick, the team around him really is one of the worst in the NBA. We don't need to trade him to get worse. The fact also is that John Paxson is too chicken**** to make a trade. Last year he had the chance to land Pierce for the Knicks picks in 2006 (in the second to worst draft of this decade) and 2007, plus Ben Gordon and expiring deals. 50 wins and a playoff victory over Miami wouldn't have come any cheaper than that. But Paxson couldn't bring himself to trade picks and prospects for a top 10 player that would put his team over the top, he's too risk averse (fans are generally pretty stupid in this manner, they'll wait forever for kids, but demand results when you trade for vets) to pull the trigger. 

I'm sensible to why the Bulls fans want Pierce, hence my failing to include Hinrich in any deal, because you'd want, essentially, to pair up Pierce with Hinrich in the backcourt. But Boston already looks to have a high draft pick coming, and trading Pierce doesn't help them in the same way that shelving Baron Davis helped the Hornets (taking them from a 40 win squad to an 18 win one so that they could land a prime prospect in the draft). And Pierce + a top 5 pick is always better than just the top 5 pick. So the Bulls would have to part with the Knicks pick for the deal to make any sense to Boston at all. No, Gordon and Deng alone won't do it because Boston would end up with the largest collection of undersized shooting guards in the NBA to put around a core of Deng, Szczerbiak, and the draft pick (which would ultimately be doomed to failure given Wally's transformation into Antoine Walker's [even more] evil twin). Heck, if I were Ainge I'd be looking to deal Bengo & Wally to Atnalta for Marvin Williams anyway (because Gordon would make the Hawks an actual contender in the Southeast). In any event, it's simple, as Pierce would make Deng extraneous anyway (I mean, Pierce, Nocioni, Ty Thomas, Sefalosha, how many swingmen does one team need?), if Paxson called and offered Deng, Gordon (also extraneous with Hinrich taking over the 1) and the Knicks pick, Chicago would have the top team in the East, and Boston would have a couple of draft picks to build around. That's what it'll take and why it will never happen.


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## SPIN DOCTOR (Oct 31, 2002)

ehmunro said:


> I'm not sure why you Bulls fans bother with these "We'll take Pierce off your hands" scenarios when you know they're, well, bull****. The fact is that the Celtics don't need to trade Paul Pierce to end up with a top 5 pick, the team around him really is one of the worst in the NBA. We don't need to trade him to get worse. The fact also is that John Paxson is too chicken**** to make a trade. Last year he had the chance to land Pierce for the Knicks picks in 2006 (in the second to worst draft of this decade) and 2007, plus Ben Gordon and expiring deals. 50 wins and a playoff victory over Miami wouldn't have come any cheaper than that. But Paxson couldn't bring himself to trade picks and prospects for a top 10 player that would put his team over the top, he's too risk averse (fans are generally pretty stupid in this manner, they'll wait forever for kids, but demand results when you trade for vets) to pull the trigger.
> 
> I'm sensible to why the Bulls fans want Pierce, hence my failing to include Hinrich in any deal, because you'd want, essentially, to pair up Pierce with Hinrich in the backcourt. But Boston already looks to have a high draft pick coming, and trading Pierce doesn't help them in the same way that shelving Baron Davis helped the Hornets (taking them from a 40 win squad to an 18 win one so that they could land a prime prospect in the draft). And Pierce + a top 5 pick is always better than just the top 5 pick. So the Bulls would have to part with the Knicks pick for the deal to make any sense to Boston at all. No, Gordon and Deng alone won't do it because Boston would end up with the largest collection of undersized shooting guards in the NBA to put around a core of Deng, Szczerbiak, and the draft pick (which would ultimately be doomed to failure given Wally's transformation into Antoine Walker's [even more] evil twin). Heck, if I were Ainge I'd be looking to deal Bengo & Wally to Atnalta for Marvin Williams anyway (because Gordon would make the Hawks an actual contender in the Southeast). In any event, it's simple, as Pierce would make Deng extraneous anyway (I mean, Pierce, Nocioni, Ty Thomas, Sefalosha, how many swingmen does one team need?), if Paxson called and offered Deng, Gordon (also extraneous with Hinrich taking over the 1) and the Knicks pick, Chicago would have the top team in the East, and Boston would have a couple of draft picks to build around. That's what it'll take and why it will never happen.


This is such a great post!!!

I am a Bulls fan, and you might be spot on. The other issue that I feel kills the deal everytime is the fact that Jerry Reinsdorf is profit driven, thus the committment of poning up the luxury tax for the next 4 years makes this a solid no way. Either trade or no trade, He is not going to give BOTH Deng & Gordon extensions, and neither is Danny. There would have to be more to the deal from both sides to keep everyone happy. Gm's hate multiple high draft picks coming off rookie contracts at the same time for extensions, kills the continuity of the team and creates financial imbalance. If any deal was discussed, I'l bet it was not Gordon and Deng from the C's side, because they are from the same draft class, unless Danny had another move to make or it was a three way to get more expiring contracts involved.

That is why I called in reheated crap in my earlier post, ehmunro you explained it in detail better than I possibly could have. :cheers:


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