# What's up with the Knicks personnel?



## John (Jun 9, 2002)

What's up?

That rookie actually asked Penny Hardaway to get out of the way when attempting in fastbreak?

A guy who was a 4 time all-starer and two time first time nbaer is disrespect like that?

And what's up with the white scrub who picked up 3 fouls in his 5 minutes of play? He just shoots the ball once he catches it.

This team is full of selfishness and I wish Knicks wont make the playoffs this season!


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## DwyaneWade4MVP (Apr 1, 2004)

Yeah, it's really weird what's going on out in NY....and Stephon is very selfish too...


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## Hakeem (Aug 12, 2004)

Marbury, like most other franchise players, is too readily vilified when his team performs poorly. You can't blame him for being selfish (and he's really not all that selfish). The rest of the starters are absurdly inconsistent. He's much more capable than any of them. His team has been playing pathetically for weeks. Who in his situation wouldn't try and take over? Oh yeah -- T-Mac and Vince. At least Marbury is giving it his best shot and not slacking off and demanding a trade. And look what he got for his efforts: 37 points on 15-19 shooting and 8 assists.


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

Yeah amazing how much Penny sucks todays. Past him prime and lacks explosive knee. First step is weak, though better then LeBron. 

F! it!


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## B Dizzle (Apr 3, 2004)

stop trashing about Marbury, he's the best pg in the world!


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>EHL</b>!
> F! it!


I've asked John not to do the whole F! thing anymore. To be fair, nobody else should do it either.

As to the Knicks, its clear this is a team with no discipline. Everybody is looking out for #1 instead of playing team ball. It is the inability to get the team to play like a team that led to Lenny stepping down.

Its a shame, because on paper they have a great deal of talent.


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## DwyaneWade4MVP (Apr 1, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>TomBoerwinkle#1</b>!
> Its a shame, because on paper they have a great deal of talent.



Got it! but that's the deal: One night Jamal Crawfrod scores 40 points, the other night he scores 5 points on 1 of 14 shooting and all of the Knicks players are just like him, one night they make everybody thinking "okay, now he made it finally and gets consistent", the other night he seems to dream of eating on the court....


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

Phil Jackson would be stupid to go to this team next yr. They are far away from even contending in the EAST let alone a world title. I don't see much talent on this team. Thomas should have never sign and traded for Crawford when Michael Redd is a FA this summer. Altho all signs point to him going to the Cavs. But all the analysts say with the the bad contracts they have they'll have to bank on 2 more yrs to when they get space when Amare Stoudemire and Yao Ming are free agents. But who says they will be available tho? That's just a bad situation. Phil would maybe have to coach 10 more yrs to get that one more ring.


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## John (Jun 9, 2002)

Herb Williams left Penny on the court because he is the facilicator of the team. A 6'7" post feeder who can get the ball where it is supposed to go.

He feed the ball to Tim Thomas so well. it was the rookies who played a lot in the game forcing issues, thinking they are the savior of the team. And Jamal Cawford is just pathetic when he isnt given any greenlight or setplays.


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## Pan Mengtu (Jun 18, 2004)

To answer the question, the knicks personnel are pathetic. Isiah Thomas destroys every team he gets near, and I would think teams would catch on to this and stop hiring him.


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

Babcock should have listenned to John and brought Penny into Toronto for Jalen.


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## Petey (Aug 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>John</b>!
> Herb Williams left Penny on the court because he is the facilicator of the team. A 6'7" post feeder who can get the ball where it is supposed to go.
> 
> He feed the ball to Tim Thomas so well. it was the rookies who played a lot in the game forcing issues, thinking they are the savior of the team. And Jamal Cawford is just pathetic when he isnt given any greenlight or setplays.


I think they are playing him to show-case him for a trade. Either he can help another team, or he can be your expiring contact next year.

-Petey


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## RP McMurphy (Jul 17, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Petey</b>!
> I think they are playing him to show-case him for a trade.


If that's what they were trying to do last night, they failed miserably.


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## Petey (Aug 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>RP McMurphy</b>!
> 
> 
> If that's what they were trying to do last night, they failed miserably.


What else would they do anything this season for besides to showcase talent?

-Petey


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## Pinball (Aug 3, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>John</b>!
> Herb Williams left Penny on the court because he is the facilicator of the team. A 6'7" post feeder who can get the ball where it is supposed to go.
> 
> He feed the ball to Tim Thomas so well. it was the rookies who played a lot in the game forcing issues, thinking they are the savior of the team. And Jamal Cawford is just pathetic when he isnt given any greenlight or setplays.


That's all well and good John but Penny is a complete liability on the defensive end of the court. His skills have not deteriorated substantially but his body is not capable of breaking defenders down, attacking the basket, and playing strong defense. I don't know what you want the Knicks to do. Penny is given a small role because there's no benefit to the team in giving him a larger role. Maybe the offense flows better with him in there but the defense gets even worse.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Isiah really did a number on this team. Instead of dumping contracts and having the courage to take the heat for losing for a season or two and build through the draft and smart FA pickup, he did the exact opposite. He took everyone else's bad deals and picked up questionable "star" players.

The amount of money invested in mediocre players is stunning. Atleast when Portland was throwing the same kind of money around their GM built a team that atleast contended for a title. 

Crawford basketball IQ is pathetic. I can't believe their are Chicago fans who actually missed this gunner for awhile. All he can think is shoot the ball as soon as I get the rock.

Overbid themselves for Houston (this one at least is not Isiah's fault)

Picked up T Thomas's big contract while K Thomas still has big money tied up on his.

Marbury is a star but I frankly never thought of him as a "franchise player" and I don't think he worth that enourmous contract he's got either

On top of that he still has a bunch of PF's without a real center


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## Pinball (Aug 3, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>TomBoerwinkle#1</b>!
> As to the Knicks, its clear this is a team with no discipline. Everybody is looking out for #1 instead of playing team ball. It is the inability to get the team to play like a team that led to Lenny stepping down.
> 
> Its a shame, because on paper they have a great deal of talent.


I don't really believe that they have great talent. They have quite a bit of talent on the perimeter and marginal talent on the interior. They definately need an overhaul in the frontcourt because their big men lack size and athleticism. The first move that needs to be made is dealing Kurt Thomas. He's fairly productive but he's old, has a bad contract, and is eating up minutes that should go to a younger player on the team. That player is Mike Sweetney, I guess. I wasn't in love with the draft pick a few years ago but I do feel that Sweetney can be a productive player in this league. He needs to work on his conditioning in the off season but he can be a double-double threat on the interior. He has a decent post game to boot. Mohammed should probably be a backup but there's no one better than him at C so he starts. The Knicks need to draft someone to challenge him inside. 

At SF, the Knicks have some problems. They have a very talented player in Tim Thomas but he's not going to realize his potential in this lifetime. On some nights he'll show off his great talent and score 30 points, grab several boards, and have several assists. On most nights, he gives you next to nothing. He's either a vastly overrated talent or one of the laziest players in the league. Seven years into the league I'm still not sure which it is. The Knicks have to hope that Trevor Ariza turns into a star here. He's got talent and athleticism, two things the Knicks really need on the perimeter. He seems to have a good skill set as well. Ariza needs to work on getting bigger and stronger in the off season, as well as improving his range. The Knicks have no other options here.

Guard is a position that looks strong on paper. It's not until you watch the games that you realize how overrated this area of the team is. For starters, they have no backup point guard. They've tried several options here and nothing has worked. Not Frank Williams, not Moochie Norris, not Jamison Brewer, not even Penny Hardaway. They probably lose more production than any other team in the league when they go to their backup PG. If you think about it, they don't really have a backup SG either. Houston's future with the team, and the league, is in limbo. His knees are completely shot and he's basically been relegated to camping outside the 3pt line. I think the guards in front of Buckingham Palace move around more than Allen Houston does. Lets not even mention his absurd contract. You couldn't get a GM drunk enough to accept a deal involving him. So basically, you're left with Crawford and Marbury at SG. Crawford is a player who I feel does not have any upside, despite his age. He hasn't developed much at all since entering the league, either physically or fundamentally. As impressive as Marbury is physically, Crawford is equally unimpressive. Either he's never gone near a weight in his life or he has the fastest metabolism known to man. I watch the guy play and I wonder how much more effective he'd be at rebounding and defending with a better body. He's alot like Allen Houston in that he's scared to death of contact. He's only averaging 3.6 FTs per game, compared to nearly 17 shots per game. His other numbers are weak across the board. Crawford is basically a "what you see is what you get" type of a player. He's a streaky scorer. That's all he ever was when he entered the league and all he ever will be. However, this was Zeke's biggest acquisition in the offseason so it will take him some time to see this. I guess the only bright spot on the team is Marbury. It seems like Stephon is the league's biggest pariah. He gets criticized for everything, some of it fair, some of it unfair. He's been one of my favorite players for a long time but I've since cooled off on him. His talent is undeniable but I'm starting to wonder if he's playing the right position. I'm not saying that because he scores alot. There have been dozens of great PGs who have had the ability to put the ball in the basket. I'm saying it because he dominates the ball too much. Obviously, he should have the ball in his hands the vast majority of the time because he's the best player on the team. However, Stephon really overhandles the ball and doesn't make split second decisions like the elite PGs in the league. Either he doesn't recognize the scoring opportunties that his teammates have or he doesn't trust his teammates. I think it is the former because he trusts Tim Thomas and Jamal Crawford enough to allow them to jack up dozens of bricks per game. I don't think that his court vision is all that good. He's built like a PG and handles the ball extremely well but I just don't think he makes decisions rapidly enough to warrant dominating the ball as much as he does. I actually think that it would be better for Stephon and team if he moved to SG. He's a very good shooter, with or without the ball. He has excellent form and I could see him moving to an open spot and nailing jumpers all game long. He's obviously an excellent ball handler. That would bode well for him against SGs. He gets to the FT line as well. I can see him being a lethal scorer in this league if he's given the opportunity to play SG. Obviously, you'd probably have to find a bigger PG to pair him up with so that you can rotate Marbury over to PG for defensive purposes. You'd also have to convince Marbury that it is in everyone's best interests for him to move to SG. That will not be easy. He's been a PG since his childhood days and there is something special about being a point guard from New York City. He;d lose that if he changed positions. I don't think the move will happen because the Knicks won't ask him to move but it is an idea.


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## Petey (Aug 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Pioneer10</b>!
> Isiah really did a number on this team. Instead of dumping contracts and having the courage to take the heat for losing for a season or two and build through the draft and smart FA pickup, he did the exact opposite. He took everyone else's bad deals and picked up questionable "star" players.


As much as I don't like Thomas, I won't blame him.

What team would take Houston? He takes up 1/4 to 1/3 their cap, and with other cap fillers, they still won't have room to make moves.

What Thomas has to do is make packages like the Suns did. If you want Marbury, take Penny. That has to be his attitude with Houston.

-Petey


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Petey</b>!
> 
> 
> As much as I don't like Thomas, I won't blame him.
> ...


But Thomas has done exactly the opposite of that he added huge contracts in the forms of Marbury, Hardaway, Thomas, and Crawford. Remember he's the one who said yes to the Suns dumping Penny on him. Thomas deserves a huge amount of blame for the disaster that is the Knicks because he compounded the financial mess he inherited. If he turns it around then he'll deserve a huge amount of credit


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## Pan Mengtu (Jun 18, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Pinball</b>!
> 
> 
> I don't really believe that they have great talent. They have quite a bit of talent on the perimeter and marginal talent on the interior. They definately need an overhaul in the frontcourt because their big men lack size and athleticism. The first move that needs to be made is dealing Kurt Thomas. He's fairly productive but he's old, has a bad contract, and is eating up minutes that should go to a younger player on the team. That player is Mike Sweetney, I guess. I wasn't in love with the draft pick a few years ago but I do feel that Sweetney can be a productive player in this league. He needs to work on his conditioning in the off season but he can be a double-double threat on the interior. He has a decent post game to boot. Mohammed should probably be a backup but there's no one better than him at C so he starts. The Knicks need to draft someone to challenge him inside.
> ...


Didn't want this post to go unnoticed. Quality post.


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## JT (Mar 1, 2004)

*the very antithesis*



> Originally posted by <b>Pan Mengtu</b>!
> Didn't want this post to go unnoticed. Quality post.


meanwhile, you pad your post count.


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## MiamiWade (Jan 23, 2005)

> Originally posted by <b>B Dizzle</b>!
> stop trashing about Marbury, he's the best pg in the world!


Let me add my laughter to it.


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