# The Official Larry Brown Watch Thread (Merged)



## MrCharisma (Feb 6, 2005)

http://www.nypost.com/sports/knicks/67252.htm



> Larry Brown's decision yesterday to bolt Orlando and the pre-draft camp early has irritated Knicks brass further, if that's possible. After yesterday's morning session, Brown, in the mid-afternoon, took a private plane believed to be destined for the Hamptons, leaving the Knicks and Isiah Thomas behind.
> 
> The pre-draft camp concludes this afternoon. Brown decided to miss two sessions, last night's and this morning's. Brown, who was "dreading" coming to Orlando, did not seek the Knicks' permission to bolt.
> 
> Thomas declined comment, but the Knicks expected Brown to stay to its conclusion. They are as displeased with his choice to leave, just like they were unhappy about his roadside interviews in Westchester.


----------



## USSKittyHawk (Jul 22, 2005)

*Re: - Knicks Unhappy After Coach Leaves Camp -*

Good I'm glad LB did that, so fire him. Bunch of *** clowns. Anytime the Knicks brass feels displease I'm happy. Bunch of unprofessional idiots! Good job LB!


----------



## rebuiltknicks (May 22, 2006)

*Re: - Knicks Unhappy After Coach Leaves Camp -*

im with you... i happy that the bosses are pissed... honestly i used to like zeke cause he could draft... but i say let him run this draft and get rid of him... before we get any more jerome james type signings


----------



## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: - Knicks Unhappy After Coach Leaves Camp -*



Kitty said:


> Good I'm glad LB did that, so fire him. Bunch of *** clowns. Anytime the Knicks brass feels displease I'm happy. Bunch of unprofessional idiots! Good job LB!


so if a player next season feels upset about trade/cut rumors should he bolt?

conjecture is never a good reason for being unprofessional.


----------



## USSKittyHawk (Jul 22, 2005)

*Re: - Knicks Unhappy After Coach Leaves Camp -*



Da Grinch said:


> so if a player next season feels upset about trade/cut rumors should he bolt?
> 
> conjecture is never a good reason for being unprofessional.


Players bolt as well, and speak out against trades and threaten to never report. Who said that was ok? The fact that this particular episode makes the suits in the Knicks organization embarassed is alright with me. It's just kind of funny you won't call out Zeke on his bs as well, but when LB decides to do something you have a problem with it. Bottom line is, the entire organization is unprofessional so LB is just keeping the trend alive. :biggrin:


----------



## Krstic All-Star (Mar 9, 2005)

*Re: - Knicks Unhappy After Coach Leaves Camp -*



Da Grinch said:


> so if a player next season feels upset about trade/cut rumors should he bolt?
> 
> conjecture is never a good reason for being unprofessional.


Considering the fact that LB's own coaching staff was notably not invited to the camp, and considering how he's been treated as of late, I'd say it was more than conjecture at this point. He has a legitimate reason for being upset - namely that cloud of doom that's been following him around for a while now.


----------



## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: - Knicks Unhappy After Coach Leaves Camp -*



Kitty said:


> Players bolt as well, and speak out against trades and threaten to never report. Who said that was ok? The fact that this particular episode makes the suits in the Knicks organization embarassed is alright with me. It's just kind of funny you won't call out Zeke on his bs as well, but when LB decides to do something you have a problem with it. Bottom line is, the entire organization is unprofessional so LB is just keeping the trend alive. :biggrin:


i have never said it was ok to unprofessional, not zeke , brown or dolan , but if an employee goes against company policy , he can be dealt with in any fashion up to firing as long as its legal. if he doesn't like it , he can quit,sue or file a grievence.

the knicks way for now is better known as the silent treatment in which no higher up will talk to him, or discuss him to anyone, they are treating him as a non-entity.

is it very professional ?

no but this cant be blamed on IT , this is obviously jimmy dolan's doing, if zeke were to go against company policy he would be as bad as brown.

your boss tells you to do something, something in your job description, and you dont want to do it , quit and that goes for both brown and Thomas , the difference is zeke is doing what he's told however childish it may be. and brown isn't but wants to be paid like he is.

Zeke had tied his fortunes to brown he wanted brown to suceed more than anyone, brown in a way did him a favor with his antics , he bought IT more time at least 2 years worth , Dolan cant blame zeke for brown because he bought that stuff too about being a great teacher and a genious. also i have never seen a coach so braxenly go after his own agenda , no one could possibly say they saw this coming.

it doesn't make sense for anyone to really point the finger at zeke and say he has been a problem in all of this. in the larger scope you can find fault with him sure but in this brown issue he is very much innocent. 

If anyone thinks Brown came into the team without knowing what zeke's plan was as far as building the team they must think brown is a huge idiot ...of course he knew and rather than wait and bide his time and have change come gradually , he made a mess of things by feeding the ny media until the team deteriorated. that was his fault and only his . it was a miscalculation because it wasn't effective and more than that it upset his bosses.

and then he kept going even after repeatedly being told to stop.

brown's history said this would happen that he eventually wouldn't care what he was told , but after a few years, a chance dolan and zeke were willing to take. that blew up in their face.

in truth the only really unprofessional thing zeke has done as GM up til now was how he handled don chaney, fire him sure , if thats your perrogative, but it should have been orchestrated better.

wilkens had only 1 asst. coach , but he took the job that way, if he had a problem he could have stayed in sea.

herb was an interim coach , he was treated well, in truth i would rather have him as head coach than either brown or zeke, if only because thats what they said they would do. But dolan is pushing for Zeke so thats that.

and when players speak out against trades and threaten not to report and are basically insubordinate , they are roasted for it ...why is brown different?

why should i overlook his behavoir which i find the worst by a pro coach ever(the only guy i think of worst is bobby knight and his actions at indiana) no other top coach takes on his bosses and then expects sympathy when his suborinates dont listen to him, no other coach period would do that .

say what you want about zeke but outside of that chaney stuff , the most you can say is that his attempt to make things better failed , but he was doing his job.

not listening to your bosses orders about the media., 43 different lineups and insane substitution choices were not part of the bargain Dolan signed up for for his 50 mil. so I cut him no slack, the fact that he is still chirping to the media is the most blatent disregard for authority i have ever seen.


----------



## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: - Knicks Unhappy After Coach Leaves Camp -*



Krstic All Star said:


> Considering the fact that LB's own coaching staff was notably not invited to the camp, and considering how he's been treated as of late, I'd say it was more than conjecture at this point. He has a legitimate reason for being upset - namely that cloud of doom that's been following him around for a while now.



i didn't see too many coaching staffs on espnu, 

how has brown actually been treated ?

zeke will only speak to him about work.

dolan wont grant him a meeting , and the org. wont comment on brown.

big deal , dolan dont want to speak to him because he dont like him, its his right.

the knicks org. has a gag order right now ...everyone, brown included , it just doesn't seem that way because brown wont stop yapping.

and zeke and brown are at work , they are not obligated to speak on anything else. brown has gone against the org. at every turn and now they are basically treating him as coldly as they would you local optimum online repair man.

you want a nice working enviroment i got some advice .

Do your job.


----------



## alphadog (Jan 2, 2004)

*Grinch...*

You need to stop acting like you know what has been said behind doors. All you know is what you read...same as all of us. Why you would choose to believe what Dolan's people and IT's people have said any more than LB is insane. Lotta people coming out in LBs favor including Karl. And if you think that just because you work for someone you have to adopt their character while forfeiting your own...especially when you know it is not right...you are wrong. Keeping your job and acting like a low character character is not something I would do. Rationalizing it says more aboout you than it does about LB. Everybody has a price, it seems.


----------



## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: Grinch...*



alphadog said:


> You need to stop acting like you know what has been said behind doors. All you know is what you read...same as all of us. Why you would choose to believe what Dolan's people and IT's people have said any more than LB is insane. Lotta people coming out in LBs favor including Karl. And if you think that just because you work for someone you have to adopt their character while forfeiting your own...especially when you know it is not right...you are wrong. Keeping your job and acting like a low character character is not something I would do. Rationalizing it says more aboout you than it does about LB. Everybody has a price, it seems.



i know whats logical.

if you somehow believe dolan didn't speak to brown about his negativity in the press you are being naive.

once your boss tells you to shut up , you have a choice do it or dont.

but if you dont then you are being insubordinate, especially when shutting up is in your job description.

see this is the thing its Brown's job to make the players look better not worse, if he doesn't want them it always makes more sense to raise their value then to tear away at it especially in a lost season. to doubt or disagree with that say things about you , that you dont want to hear.

IT doesn't have to speak to brown about anything not work related, there is a fair share of evidence that he too is upset with brown , just not as mad as dolan.

the difference between me and you is that i look at a situation from all sides .

when you accept a job you accept responsibilities, you are part of that company , your interests are supposed to be for the benefit of it . Dolan like any resonable owner should not have wanted trouble but brown gave it to him, explain to me when dolan didn't have aproblem with any other coach he just happens to have trouble with one that can cost him 50 million dollars in the span of a year? 

if you have been paying attention to anything Knicks related you would know Dolan pretty much will take anything as long as the dollars keep rolling in as long as you aren't being negative in public.

if you do that he beefs with you and it doesn't matter who you are. you could be coaching royalty , you could be a back biting commenting legend who now works for the nets, it doesn't matter if IT got critical of the org. for whatever reason you can bet Dolan would turn against him too, and though you may not think so its with good reason.

i am not really paying attention to what people are saying i couldn't care less i am watching their actions

you want to put more faith in people who obviously have ties to Brown and are biased like george karl(unc ever heard of it) and shelly brown be my guess , but you are just being naive to think you can take their statement with anything but a grain of salt.


----------



## Krstic All-Star (Mar 9, 2005)

*Re: - Knicks Unhappy After Coach Leaves Camp -*



Da Grinch said:


> i didn't see too many coaching staffs on espnu,
> 
> how has brown actually been treated ?
> 
> ...



And that's the strangest part for me personally. I don't like LB's work the past year at all, and wouldn't be upset in the slightest if the Knicks terminated his contract for it. But all this garbage is just wrong. Stringing someone along like that is something I find morally offensive. If you want to fire someone fire him, but don't keep dragging it out to make him look like an idiot.


----------



## USSKittyHawk (Jul 22, 2005)

*Re: - Knicks Unhappy After Coach Leaves Camp -*



Krstic All Star said:


> And that's the strangest part for me personally. I don't like LB's work the past year at all, and wouldn't be upset in the slightest if the Knicks terminated his contract for it. But all this garbage is just wrong. Stringing someone along like that is something I find morally offensive. If you want to fire someone fire him, but don't keep dragging it out to make him look like an idiot.


My sentiments exactly, good post.


----------



## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: - Knicks Unhappy After Coach Leaves Camp -*

i'm not so sure he has been strung along., if he would take 25 mil. instead of the 40 mil. he is owed he would be gone, the knicks have spoken to Brown's agent(actually glass called zeke) since this all began and Glass' response is that they wont take a buyout. its not a secret , glass has even spoken to the media about it.

what the knicks wont do is speak about it , but yet we all know everyone's stance on the issue. dolan's mad, zeke is siding with his boss , and brown will not quit or take less than 40 mil. to go away.

what we are watching is a negotiation and to see who will be broken 1st , if there is any truth at all to the brown side(you know his wife coaches with UNC ties former work associates etc) of the media leaks it obviously will be brown. I stay skeptical, that the whole thing is a snowjob at least in part.

both sides are using the media, so in truth knowing that everyone should take this whole thing with a grain of salt

if brown were so disheartened about this why doesn't he go , he has surely left teams for less.


----------



## Gotham2krazy (Nov 22, 2005)

*Re: - Knicks Unhappy After Coach Leaves Camp -*



Da Grinch said:


> no but this cant be blamed on IT , this is obviously jimmy dolan's doing, if zeke were to go against company policy he would be as bad as brown.


it's that muh ****in ***** *** dolan's doing, that ****er is just out to get new yorkers' money PERIOD


----------



## USSKittyHawk (Jul 22, 2005)

*Official Larry Brown Watch Thread (Merged)*



> Lame-duck Knicks coach Larry Brown doesn't speak to Isiah Thomas any longer. And now he's banned from speaking to reporters covering the team, according to Brown's agent, Joe Glass.
> 
> Brown conducted more pre-draft workouts yesterday at the Knicks' Westchester facility, then left in the passenger seat of a black Chevy Trailblazer with assistant coach Dave Hanners behind the wheel.
> 
> ...


http://www.nypost.com/php/pfriendly/print.php?url=http://www.nypost.com/sports/knicks/knicks_place_gag_on_brown_knicks_marc_berman.htm


----------



## Gotham2krazy (Nov 22, 2005)

*Re: Knicks Put Gag On Brown*

I think we should just let bygons be bygons, if only Zeke had listened to Brown earlier, then there would not have been so much problems, Zeke new Brown and Steph would not get along, but he refused to trade Steph. The end result is this mayhem, but I think this thing can still be saved and our window of oppurtunity may not last long. If we just trade Marbury to Minnesotta, who is the probably the only team willing to take him, then we can maybe haggle for their pick too.


----------



## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: Knicks Put Gag On Brown*

hmmm.... its good brown is actually not talking for once .

the thing is there was never a real gag order before just you were not supposed to give out negativity ....i guess this is just the way to silence him, say you can only talk with a relations official there ....then not give him one until you feel like it....for now, i'm waiting to see if he can keep his yap shut throughout las vegas.

i wonder if stern will want to step in to mediate this ....if he does , my bet is brown get 25 mil. to walk away.


----------



## The Future7 (Feb 24, 2005)

*Re: Knicks Put Gag On Brown*

I dont even know what to say anymore about this Brown situation. I just hope he stays the Head coach of the Knicks.


----------



## andy787 (Jun 9, 2003)

*Re: Knicks Put Gag On Brown*

Hey, Maybe Tomas can trade Brown to another team. That will a good solution. He gets rid of Brown and He doesnt have to humble himself by coaching the team.


----------



## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

*post article on knicks ...more brown-zeke drama*

http://www.nypost.com/sports/knicks/isiah_could_coach_knicks_in_sin_city_knicks_marc_berman.htm



> June 16, 2006 -- If Larry Brown's dismissal occurs before the June 28 draft as expected, there's a chance coach-in-waiting Isiah Thomas will run the bench for at least a couple of games during the Las Vegas summer league in July.
> The Knicks' summer-league team begins play July 7 vs. Cleveland and finishes July 13. The team will hold practices beginning July 2 in Sin City. Though free agency will be underway, the Knicks' president may want to shake off the coaching rust.
> 
> All three of his 2005-06 rookies - Channing Frye, Nate Robinson and David Lee - are expected, as well as his two first-round picks from this draft. There are strong signals Knicks brass will not want the feuding Brown and Thomas in the war room June 28, as the Knicks would become an even bigger national joke than they already are.





> Owner James Dolan's plan to install Thomas as coach makes sense because Isiah believes in the roster he's assembled, even though others don't. The players never sensed Brown believed in them, and his rips in the media and record-setting lineup changes eroded team confidence.
> 
> Dolan's handling of the Brown divorce is despicable, letting him twist in the wind while forcing him to run pre-draft workouts. But even Brown understands why they might want to go in another direction. He's just furious it has dragged on 33 days.





> Brown was a disaster last season, treating the Knicks' 23-59 campaign as extended training camp. Some players didn't believe making the playoffs was his top priority, and that his agenda was changing the roster and experimenting.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



its just wierd , it seems like the players had issues with larry for a while , a player shouldn't think you dont want to win.


----------



## USSKittyHawk (Jul 22, 2005)

*Re: post article on knicks ...more brown-zeke drama*

I'm tired of this LB BS already, just give him the pink slip already so we can concentrate on the draft.


----------



## Gotham2krazy (Nov 22, 2005)

*Re: Knicks Put Gag On Brown*



The Future7 said:


> I dont even know what to say anymore about this Brown situation. I just hope he stays the Head coach of the Knicks.


Yeah, I agree, I just want Stephon to get the **** out.


----------



## Krstic All-Star (Mar 9, 2005)

*Re: Knicks Put Gag On Brown*

Peter Vescey seems to like the fact that Brown's gagged...


----------



## The Future7 (Feb 24, 2005)

*Re: post article on knicks ...more brown-zeke drama*

lol I want LB to stay, its the players who need to go.


----------



## rebuiltknicks (May 22, 2006)

*Re: post article on knicks ...more brown-zeke drama*

yeah im with you.. i want the players to leave... i want larry to stay...


----------



## MrCharisma (Feb 6, 2005)

*- Daily Knicks/Brown BS -*

http://www.nypost.com/sports/knicks/tally_no__knicks_marc_berman.htm



> "Big Ben" will have to wait for Larry Brown. And we're not talking about Ben Wallace.
> In another crazy twist to the Knick soap opera, Brown revealed yesterday that he's had to cancel a family trip to London because the Knicks have scheduled workouts Monday through Thursday and have ordered that he be there.
> 
> Even though Brown will be relieved of his coaching duties shortly, owner James Dolan is making him earn his $40 million as their designated pre-draft workout specialist.
> ...


----------



## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: post article on knicks ...more brown-zeke drama*



Kitty said:


> I'm tired of this LB BS already, just give him the pink slip already so we can concentrate on the draft.


they may be keeping brown up til the draft for that purpose, so that zeke can fully concentrate on player evaluations . i am getting the real urge to merge all these brown watch threads into 1, all these lil' trickles of threads all on the same topic every other day is getting ridiculous , that my only real beef with it. the draft news is still there its just down at the bottom of most of these articles or hidden somewhere inside.

if brown is so disenchanted with his treatment he could go zeke and ask to start buyout negotiations ...but i think its obvious he wont do that .


----------



## USSKittyHawk (Jul 22, 2005)

*Re: post article on knicks ...more brown-zeke drama*

That's cool Grinch, we should merge the LB threads and change the name to Larry Brown "As the World Turns". LOL


----------



## USSKittyHawk (Jul 22, 2005)

*Re: - Daily Knicks/Brown BS -*

Damn, but seriously how can Dolan or Zeke attract any decent coaches when they treat a HOF coach like Brown like a piece of dirt. I'm telling you folks, they way they handle this will come back to bite them in the *** in the future. This organization may have blacklisted themselves from acquiring players and decent coaches down the road. Take over the Zeke so you can fire yourself.


----------



## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: - Daily Knicks/Brown BS -*

I thought he wasn't talking ?

how did he reveal he couldn't go to england ....did he use smoke signals , flash cards, mimes...or morse code through his brake lights. 

for someone not talking he still seems to be communicating with the press pretty well.

and this is just the icing on the cake , his assistants have to work , yet somehow he should be free , this is not his off time , that was when the season ended before player workouts , he should have left then , in june he should be looking at prospective players not going to the 1 country in all of europe without a decent basketball league.

just shuddap already ....and do your job!


----------



## USSKittyHawk (Jul 22, 2005)

*Re: - Daily Knicks/Brown BS -*

Hey Grinch, one of his assistants actually quit and I believe he joined the Kings staff as a top assistant. At least he escaped this mess. LOL


----------



## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: - Daily Knicks/Brown BS -*



Kitty said:


> Hey Grinch, one of his assistants actually quit and I believe he joined the Kings staff as a top assistant. At least he escaped this mess. LOL


really , well good for him, I've always thought highly of the guys on LB's staff, so matter who it is its a good move. the kings despite recently removing their coach is a pretty stable enviroment.

and since Dolan signed all of LB's asst. to 4 yr. deals he was leaving quite a bit of money on the table unless there was a buyout i am not aware of.

p.s. thanks for merging the threads .


----------



## nymoorestx (Jul 1, 2005)

*Re: - Knicks Unhappy After Coach Leaves Camp -*

I hear lots of folks saying that LB should just take 25 mil and walk. 

Would you leave 15 mil on the table?


----------



## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: - Knicks Unhappy After Coach Leaves Camp -*



nymoorestx said:


> I hear lots of folks saying that LB should just take 25 mil and walk.
> 
> Would you leave 15 mil on the table?


why not ?

take 25 mil. get another job for next season he made 7 mil. in det. a year.

4 years at 7 mil. + 25 mil. looks like he comes out ahead to me.

take the 40 but is forced to wait , damages his rep +may miss out on the only job available. he may not work for some time , at 65 that may be all it takes for this to be it for him.

this is of course if he is a tourtured as he seems to be in his press clippings.


----------



## nymoorestx (Jul 1, 2005)

*Re: - Daily Knicks/Brown BS -*

That's assuming he can get another well paying job. After last season his rep is already damaged. Plus he says he wants to st out the year. A bird in hand is better than two in the bush. I'd make the Knicks pay me or let me coach.


----------



## USSKittyHawk (Jul 22, 2005)

> In another drive-by interview yesterday one block from the Knicks' Westchester practice facility, Larry Brown said he is willing to give Isiah Thomas his input into next Wednesday's NBA Draft but hasn't been asked.
> 
> Team owner James Dolan is planning to dismiss Brown, and signals are very strong inside the organization he finally will end the charade in the next eight days.
> 
> ...


http://www.nypost.com/php/pfriendly/print.php?url=http://www.nypost.com/sports/knicks/brown_has_no_say_for_knick_draft_knicks_marc_berman.htm

When this is all over, I can't wait to hear what Larry Brown has to say about Zeke and Dolan. Aww man, it's going to be crazy.


----------



## Krstic All-Star (Mar 9, 2005)

Same here. I wonder where he'll end up...


----------



## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: - Daily Knicks/Brown BS -*



nymoorestx said:


> That's assuming he can get another well paying job. After last season his rep is already damaged. Plus he says he wants to st out the year. A bird in hand is better than two in the bush. I'd make the Knicks pay me or let me coach.


ya gotta luv these mixed messages .

either you want to coach or sit out .

this is your dream job but and you are mad that they haven't fired you yet.

all this and of course today he gives another roadside chat to reporters to complain about his lack of input (not no imput apparently he was seeked out during the initial round of workouts), and of course there is this.

http://www.newsday.com/sports/print...436jun20,0,6846991.story?coll=ny-sports-print.



> The coach chuckled slightly when someone mentioned that Stephon Marbury commented Saturday that he "loves" Brown and believes that playing for Brown helped him grow.
> 
> "You always appreciate when players say things like that," Brown said. "If I helped him in any way , thats what I'm supposed to do. Hopefully we all benefit from the experience."


----------



## USSKittyHawk (Jul 22, 2005)

*Re: - Daily Knicks/Brown BS -*

I'm hearing they may fire Larry Brown on Monday, I'm swamp at work but when I get a little bit of down time I'll post it. Or if someone else finds it, please don't hesitate to post it in this thread. It's a Daily News Frank Isola article.


----------



## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

with this press release the Official Larry brown watch thread ends 

http://aol.nba.com/knicks/news/brown_060622.html 



> Official Press Release - Larry Brown has been relieved of his responsibilities as head coach of the New York Knicks it was announced today. Isiah Thomas, who serves as the team's president and general manager, will also assume the role of head coach, effective immediately.
> 
> "Larry has had a long and storied career. We hired him last summer with the expectation that he would be with the Knicks for a long time. Sometimes decisions work and sometimes they don't. After careful consideration, despite the best intentions from everyone involved, this current structure did not work for us last season and I did not think it was going to improve next season," MSG Chairman James L. Dolan said. "I have great personal admiration for Larry, but have concluded that it is best for our franchise if we make this change. We understand that fans were not happy with the performance of the team last season and neither were we. We are committed to making major improvements next season towards our goal of producing a winning basketball team."
> 
> ...


----------

