# Re-working the Kidd to Dallas deal, with Portland?



## yuyuza1 (May 24, 2006)

Way at the bottom of this article.



> The word is New Jersey has another deal cooking, as well. It could actually be a while before this deal finally becomes official. There's also some talk that a third team might get involved in this deal, and Portland has been mentioned.


Just a rumor here, but please consider the source.


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## MAS RipCity (Feb 22, 2003)

right now we need a change..just dont give up Outlaw and I am okay


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## RW#30 (Jan 1, 2003)

MAS RipCity said:


> right now we need a change..just dont give up Outlaw and I am okay


I like Outlaw and his game but no one will give you value for junk. I would love to see Webbster in that trade vs. Outlaw.Harris excactly what this team needs. Tall, defensive minded pg who can knock down a shot. Getting a guy of his caliber at age 23 would be amazing. We would be set with 4 out of 5 starting spots.


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## MrJayremmie (Dec 29, 2007)

AWESOME! 

I will be willing to give up anyone on the team except Roy, Aldridge, and Oden.

Skeptical about givin' up Outlaw, Webster, Blake, Pryzbilla, Jones, Fernandez.

don't care about Sergio, Jack, LaFrentz, Miles, Kaponen, Freeland, Frye, Green, McRoberts.

That is my take. 

I'd be willing to give up anyone other than The top 3, but KP should think about the core, and will it be worth it. Like Outlaw, he has lots of upside, but his style doesn't seem to fit with the starting line up. He is best when he is the 1st option. So do we keep a 6th man and not get a starting PG of the next 10 years? stuff like that. If we do add Outlaw, then we have to think about how much are we really giving up. I'm all for consolidating roster space, but we shouldn't go overboard. Somethin' like Jack, Sergio, Frye, 1st for Harris. Or even Jack, Outlaw, 1st, Future picks/2nd round i'd be game for. But somethin' like Outlaw, Jack, Webster, 1st is just not right. Webster, Jack, Frye, 1st? i'd do it.

thanks for the link, btw dude. hopefullly this game showed KP that we still need to get better, that Fernandez might not come over, so to think Oden will take a .500 team to a title contender is tough, imo.


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## deanwoof (Mar 10, 2003)

maybe they'll send us antoine wright for jack if they can't land devin harris. giving us yet ANOTHER option at the SF/SG slot in case james jones bolts or webster asks for too much this summer.

or watch us end up with richard jefferson and nachbar, who i really like, for raef lafrentz, jack, and webster.


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

The Dallas fans next to me tonight do not think highly of Devin Harris and were more than ready to see him go. They say he's a turnover machine and doesn't know how to run an offense or make plays for his teammates. Says he's nothing more than a slasher and that Tony Parker runs circles around him (then again, who doesn't?)

I don't think that Devin is the answer to our problems, folks. He's more of the same. Let this trade go.


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## MrJayremmie (Dec 29, 2007)

yet he is much better than any PG we have. Will be our best perimeter defender, and will be able to get us a hell of a lot of easy baskets with his ability to run, and make good decisions (specially since we are used to jack).


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## RoyToy (May 25, 2007)

Get'r done.


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## MrJayremmie (Dec 29, 2007)

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/I9_IGn09Ax0&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/I9_IGn09Ax0&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

sexy! the kid can get up! he gets a lot of fast breaks also. Man we can use someone to get us easy buckets. That would help our team SO MUCH!



> Get'r done.


+1 

edit: seriously, that highlight tape is freakin' sweet. Wow. shows everything except for his defense. Shows him gettin' easy baskets, hittin shots, creating for himself and others, wow... i probably shouldn't have watched that.  how perfect would he compliment Roy? geez...


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## ROYisR.O.Y. (Apr 1, 2007)

IM A GENIUS
AAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAHHHHHH


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## Ruff Draft (Nov 21, 2004)

ROYisR.O.Y. said:


> IM A GENIUS
> AAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAHHHHHH


Uhhhh wow. Good job. :biggrin:


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

MrJayremmie said:


> yet he is much better than any PG we have. Will be our best perimeter defender, and will be able to get us a hell of a lot of easy baskets with his ability to run, and make good decisions (specially since we are used to jack).


They seemed to think that he does not make good decisions at all and that is why Avery doesn't like him. They say he's a turnover machine who doesn't know how to make plays for his teammates on a consistent basis.


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## Yega1979 (Mar 22, 2003)

We went after Derek Anderson to be our "slasher" and what we ended up with was a crappy jump shooter. So hopefully Harris could pan out better than Derek.

But Deven Harris wouldn't need to run our offense, Brandon would run the half court offense, Harris would be like a SG, but run the fast breaks and push the ball up the court. Webster, Jack and Frye are just fodder. We wouldn't miss them in the least.


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## craigehlo (Feb 24, 2005)

ZackAddy said:


> They seemed to think that he does not make good decisions at all and that is why Avery doesn't like him. They say he's a turnover machine who doesn't know how to make plays for his teammates on a consistent basis.


Then they got a look at Jack and realized what they had.


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

MrJayremmie said:


> <object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/I9_IGn09Ax0&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/I9_IGn09Ax0&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>
> 
> sexy! the kid can get up! he gets a lot of fast breaks also. Man we can use someone to get us easy buckets. That would help our team SO MUCH!
> 
> ...


http://youtube.com/watch?v=21imDfKor6k <----- watch that.

neither of the highlight videos show all the turnovers BOTH players commit


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

craigehlo said:


> Then they got a look at Jack and realized what they had.


One of them actually said that Jack looked like a young Harris. If you look at Harris and Jack's numbers last year when they were both starters, Jack had the better numbers. I'm not sold on this Harris guy, boys.


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## MARIS61 (Apr 28, 2003)

I'd keep Jarrett over getting Harris in a 1 for 1 trade, and everyone here knows how I feel about Jarrett.

Harris just ain't all that.


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## yuyuza1 (May 24, 2006)

ZackAddy said:


> If you look at Harris and Jack's numbers last year when they were both starters, Jack had the better numbers. I'm not sold on this Harris guy, boys.


It's not all about numbers. 

Dallas has better scorers than we do, and don't need Harris to do what he does best, which is to put points on the board by slashing and cutting. A lot of their offense relies on just handing the ball to Terry, Howard, and Dirk and letting them create. 

On this team, however, a slashing scorer would be the perfect complement to Roy. 

One more note about numbers, they don't reflect that Harris is perhaps the best PG defender in the league today.


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## craigehlo (Feb 24, 2005)

NBA.com evaluates all players based on the efficiency formula: ((Points + Rebounds + Assists + Steals + Blocks) - ((Field Goals Att. - Field Goals Made) + (Free Throws Att. - Free Throws Made) + Turnovers)).

Harris: 15.1 (#87)
Jack: 10 (#163)


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## ProfitByProphet (Jan 31, 2008)

ZackAddy said:


> They seemed to think that he does not make good decisions at all and that is why Avery doesn't like him. They say he's a turnover machine who doesn't know how to make plays for his teammates on a consistent basis.


Who cares what a couple drunk fans think? Most sane people know that Devin Harris is not just good, but very good. And you're likely making that BS up about Avery not liking him. That's never been reported or commented on ever. Find one article or thread about it otherwise you're a liar.


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

yuyuza1 said:


> It's not all about numbers.
> 
> Dallas has better scorers than we do, and don't need Harris to do what he does best, which is to put points on the board by slashing and cutting. A lot of their offense relies on just handing the ball to Terry, Howard, and Dirk and letting them create.
> 
> ...


I'm telling ya... the Dallas fans aren't impressed with his game or his defense. They says he's wildly inconsistent and a turnover machine.


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

craigehlo said:


> NBA.com evaluates all players based on the efficiency formula: ((Points + Rebounds + Assists + Steals + Blocks) - ((Field Goals Att. - Field Goals Made) + (Free Throws Att. - Free Throws Made) + Turnovers)).
> 
> Harris: 15.1 (#87)
> Jack: 10 (#163)


But Jack is coming off the bench. Compare their numbers last season when they both started and keep in mind that Jack is younger, right? Jacks's efficiency was better I'm sure.


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

ProfitByProphet said:


> Who cares what a couple drunk fans think? Most sane people know that Devin Harris is not just good, but very good. And you're likely making that BS up about Avery not liking him. That's never been reported or commented on ever. Find one article or thread about it otherwise you're a liar.


I'm not a liar. That is what three different fans said.

I, myself, do remember Avery calling out Harris after the Golden State series. He made a comment about Harris not knowing how to communicate plays when the crowd was as loud as it was in Oakland.


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## ProfitByProphet (Jan 31, 2008)

ZackAddy said:


> I'm telling ya... the Dallas fans aren't impressed with his game or his defense. They says he's wildly inconsistent and a turnover machine.


No, you're telling me the opinion of two fans you happened to meet. Well the fans here on the general forum all seem to want to keep Harris. Your opinion is worthless. You haven't even watched Harris and are basing your opinion of him based on players on this team (which makes no sense) and two random fans who don't like him and for all you know never graduated high school.

You're all emotion and no substance.


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## ROYisR.O.Y. (Apr 1, 2007)

if jack is so great why does everyone who knows a ton more about basketball than us think harris is awesome

look jack is a nice player but harris fits this team way better than jack does


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## yuyuza1 (May 24, 2006)

ZackAddy said:


> I'm telling ya... the Dallas fans aren't impressed with his game or his defense. They says he's wildly inconsistent and a turnover machine.


I looked through some Dallas forums for their opinions, and found this: http://realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=761600. 

Pretty much bolsters my thinking.


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## ProfitByProphet (Jan 31, 2008)

Offensive efficiency of the team Harris runs: second in the league
Offensive efficiency of the team Kidd runs: 25th
Harris current salary: Just under $4,000,000
Kidd current salary: Just under $20,000,000
Harris's age: 24
Kidd's age: 34
Devin Harris's PER: 18.64
Jason Kidd's PER: 16.06
According to 82games, for every 100 possessions Devin Harris is on the floor, Dallas scores almost 12 points more than the same number of possesions without Harris.
With Kidd, that number is five.
When Harris is on the court, the Mavericks have outscored opponents by 217 points this season. When he is off the court, the Mavericks have been outscored by 11. Harris is, therefore, +228.
When Kidd is on the court, the Nets have been outscored by 154. When he is off the court the Nets have been outscored by 116. Kidd is, therefore, -38.
Devin Harris's record in the NBA Finals: 2-4.
Jason Kidd's record in the NBA Finals: 2-8.


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## yuyuza1 (May 24, 2006)

ProfitByProphet said:


> Harris did not start last year and you know it. I know you know it because I've told you that about five times and I've seen other posters tell it to you as well!
> 
> YOU'RE REALLY PATHETIC. STOP LYING TO MAKE YOURSELF SOUND SMART.


Harris started 61 of the 80 game he played in last year. 

I don't want to play armchair-mod, but I think you should cool it with the personal attacks. ZA is just expressing his opinion.


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## ROYisR.O.Y. (Apr 1, 2007)

cmon zachaddy harris was like the 1 guy who played decent in that series!


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## Five5even (Jun 15, 2007)

why not get into the spirit of trade season...

here's my idea...


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

ProfitByProphet said:


> No, you're telling me the opinion of two fans you happened to meet. Well the fans here on the general forum all seem to want to keep Harris. Your opinion is worthless. You haven't even watched Harris and are basing your opinion of him based on players on this team (which makes no sense) and two random fans who don't like him and for all you know never graduated high school.
> 
> You're all emotion and no substance.


Actually, you're projecting. It is your posts that are all emotion and no substance. Or did I imagine your huge writing in a bold font on a previous thread? Or did I imagine your all emotion "you suck, Kevin Pritchard" thread? Read your own posts. They are full of emotional name calling.

First of all there were three fans. A guy who was about 26 and his parents. The Dad shook his head when I asked about Devin. The 26 year old guy was glad to let him go. The 26 year old said "he can slash" but that's all he can do. The Dad was like "when it comes to assists... play making..." and shook his head. These were three intelligent fans who go to all the games. I can't write verbatim what they said, but he gist was that Harris was just okay. That he's not a playmaker that you can trust your offense with. That one night, he's great and another night, he's not. They weren't weeping a tear about losing him (this was before we got the news that the deal was dead). The 26 year old guy said that Cuban loves him but Avery hates him, that Avery wants him to slow down and play the way he played in SA. He said that Devin is the fastest guy he's every seen though. He also said that Tony Parker runs circles around him. I said "isn't he a good defender?" He said "who's got the rings?"

I'm just reporting what these people said.


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

ProfitByProphet said:


> STOP THE LIES!!!
> 
> Harris did not start last year and you know it. I know you know it because I've told you that about five times and I've seen other posters tell it to you as well!
> 
> YOU'RE REALLY PATHETIC. STOP LYING TO MAKE YOURSELF SOUND SMART.


^^^^all emotion^^^^


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

ProfitByProphet said:


> Offensive efficiency of the team Harris runs: second in the league
> Offensive efficiency of the team Kidd runs: 25th
> Harris current salary: Just under $4,000,000
> Kidd current salary: Just under $20,000,000
> ...


So now you're saying Devin Harris is better than Jason Kidd? That's laughable. People in here are saying Devin puts the ball in Terry and Dirk's hands and THEY make the plays. Kidd has almost 100 career triple doubles. Jason Kidd personally carried the Nets to two NBA Finals. Devin Harris hasn't done any of the heavy lifting for Dallas. They made the WCF without him in 2003 and they could do it again this year without him. The team is Dirk's team.


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## Five5even (Jun 15, 2007)

ProfitByProphet said:


> Your opinion means nothing to me. You criticize Harris for things that Jack is 10x worse at. You are a homer hypocrite in the highest form.


he's got a point there....

when jack stops dribbling the ball off of his foot on a fastbreak, getting called for a backcourt violation or stepping on the baseline then let me know...

It happens too often and the PER ratings dont lie. Harris IS better than JJ and i think you are just too stubborn to admit it Zach.

If harris is offered, you take the deal barring some outlandish circumstance. its a no brainer. :azdaja:


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

yuyuza1 said:


> Harris started 61 of the 80 game he played in last year.


Thank you.


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

ProfitByProphet said:


> Offensive efficiency of the team Harris runs: second in the league
> Offensive efficiency of the team Kidd runs: 25th
> Harris current salary: Just under $4,000,000
> Kidd current salary: Just under $20,000,000
> ...



Also-- if Harris is so much better, why was Dallas so willing to part with him? They signed off on the deal today. If it weren't for George, you would be a Nets fan.


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## RoyToy (May 25, 2007)

Am I the only one that watched Barea lock Jack up tonight? Jack couldn't dribble anywhere.

Jack's a nice NBA player. Good role player coming off the bench. Devin Harris can do everthing Jack can do, and is 10x better at doing it. He's the better player and it shouldn't even be up to debate imo.


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## Five5even (Jun 15, 2007)

ZackAddy said:


> So now you're saying Devin Harris is better than Jason Kidd? That's laughable. People in here are saying Devin puts the ball in Terry and Dirk's hands and THEY make the plays. Kidd has almost 100 career triple doubles. Jason Kidd personally carried the Nets to two NBA Finals. Devin Harris hasn't done any of the heavy lifting for Dallas. They made the WCF without him in 2003 and they could do it again this year without him. The team is Dirk's team.


What has Jack done for the blazers? I think Harris has had more success in his career partially due to circumstance, but look at what he does with Dirk and Terry and translate that to Roy, Oden, LMA. its only going to improve over time.

Harris has valuable playoff experience, something Jack can't attest for. Not to mention Harris has better court vision and can run a fast break without stumbling all over himself and coughing up an inexplicable Turnover.


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

I've never actually said that Jack was better than Harris. I've said that Jack has had comparable if not better stats than Harris when they both started last year. And that is true. I've said that I wouldn't trade THREE players for Harris. And I've compared the two in that these three fans said that Harris was a turnover machine and said that Jack was a young Harris. That is what they said. Not what I said. And they weren't drunk or high school drop outs. They were kind intelligent season ticket holders.

I've always maintained that I would trade Jack for Harris straight up. But I wouldn't trade Jack/Frye/Outlaw for Harris.

Outside of the Harris argument, I defend Jack as a fan of the team and don't like it when everyone dumps on him. And the way the fans are in here, I bet they would dump on Harris sooner than later. If Harris becomes a Blazers, I will be his biggest champion because he will be one of us and I will root for him to do well. But I can easily imagine the proverbial "everyone" turning on him in here. Look at LMA. Everyone turned on Zach Randolph and was so excited about LMA. Now the proverbial "everyone" has turned on LMA. I remember when everyone hated Sheed and couldn't WAIT to give Zach his minutes. It's a long standing tradition in here: Hate who you have.


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

Five5even said:


> What has Jack done for the blazers? I think Harris has had more success in his career partially due to circumstance, but look at what he does with Dirk and Terry and translate that to Roy, Oden, LMA. its only going to improve over time.
> 
> Harris has valuable playoff experience, something Jack can't attest for. Not to mention Harris has better court vision and can run a fast break without stumbling all over himself and coughing up an inexplicable Turnover.


Harris commits almost 2.5 turnovers a game while not even averaging 6 assists. Don't glorify the guy. It'll only lead to you tearing him down when the "reality" gets here if we do trade for him.


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## ProfitByProphet (Jan 31, 2008)

ZackAddy said:


> Also-- if Harris is so much better, why was Dallas so willing to part with him?


Because they're desperate. Nobody said the move was good for Dallas and most fans here think it makes Dallas worse. If Roy is so good why'd Boston trade him for Telfair?


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## ProfitByProphet (Jan 31, 2008)

ZackAddy said:


> Harris commits almost 2.5 turnovers a game while not even averaging 6 assists. Don't glorify the guy. It'll only lead to you tearing him down when the "reality" gets here if we do trade for him.


Jack is far worse in the turnover and assist department. You are the king of the pot calling the kettle black.


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## ProfitByProphet (Jan 31, 2008)

If Jack is so good why'd the team make an immediate effort to replace him with Blake and bench him?


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

ProfitByProphet said:


> Because they're desperate. Nobody said the move was good for Dallas and most fans here think it makes Dallas worse. If Roy is so good why'd Boston trade him for Telfair?


Roy hadn't played in the NBA yet. Telfair had. Terrible example. Would Boston have traded Roy after having him for THREE seasons? I don't think so. Such is the case with Harris. This is Harris' 4th season with Dallas. They've seen what he can do in this league and they're willing to trade him. If Boston had Roy for three seasons, they wouldn't have traded him.

That was a terrible example.


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## ProfitByProphet (Jan 31, 2008)

Logic according to ZA:

Portland fans by and far do not like Jack or just want him gone ASAP. To ZA this means nothing.

Three fans tell him they don't like Harris. To ZA this is fact and truth and gospel and anyone that thinks differently is of course wrong and you can prove it, just ask those three fans.


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## ProfitByProphet (Jan 31, 2008)

ZackAddy said:


> Roy hadn't played in the NBA yet. Telfair had. Terrible example. Would Boston have traded Roy after having him for THREE seasons? I don't think so. Such is the case with Harris. This is Harris' 4th season with Dallas. They've seen what he can do in this league and they're willing to trade him. If Boston had Roy for three seasons, they wouldn't have traded him.
> 
> That was a terrible example.


And Dallas has done what exactly to make you think they make good decisions? Dallas is not the team you look at for a good example of building a team. They've built nothing so far. Tell me win they win the Championship.


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

ProfitByProphet said:


> If Jack is so good why'd the team make an immediate effort to replace him with Blake and bench him?


I never much said that Jack is "so good" so much as not "so bad." We earned the starting spot in training camp. But after three actual games, it was clear that he wasn't good at running the offense with the starting unit. So we moved him to the second unit where he play back up 2 guard with Sergio running the point. He has flourished in that role in spurts. He's not great. I'd trade him for Harris for as much as I know about Harris. But he's not bad. He's young and on the way up in this league. He nearly had a triple double OFF THE BENCH a couple weeks ago. That's impressive. Other games, he's not so good.


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

ProfitByProphet said:


> Logic according to ZA:
> 
> Portland fans by and far do not like Jack or just want him gone ASAP. To ZA this means nothing.
> 
> Three fans tell him they don't like Harris. To ZA this is fact and truth and gospel and anyone that thinks differently is of course wrong and you can prove it, just ask those three fans.


All I did was report what those three season ticket holders said. That is it. I didn't say whether I agreed with it or not. I'm not qualified to say either way. I'm just reporting what was said.

You claim to not care what I say but you hang on every word and respond to every one of my posts. You LOVE hearing what I have to say. Tearing me down gives you something to do. Same with me. Own up to it and love it.

Your turn.


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## ROYisR.O.Y. (Apr 1, 2007)

dont mean to interrupt this argument but look at dallas' history with trading away young pgs

kidd
nash

im ready to take on the next one.


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

I'm officially calling off my part in this fight. You may now personally attack me as much as you wish. Go off on me all you want. I won't be reading it. I will post what I wish about the Blazers, Jack, Harris, and anyone else I want to post about. If Harris becomes a Blazer, I will welcome him with open arms. Peace.


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

ROYisR.O.Y. said:


> dont mean to interrupt this argument but look at dallas' history with trading away young pgs
> 
> kidd
> nash
> ...


Kidd and Nash were far better players than Harris when they played for the Mavs. There is simply no comparison. They play entirely different games on an entirely different level.


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## axs31 (Jul 5, 2006)

ZA, earlier you said that Jack is younger than Harris.. that's right: by a whopping 8 months.


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## Resume (Jul 17, 2007)

MrJayremmie said:


> edit: seriously, that highlight tape is freakin' sweet. Wow. shows everything except for his defense. Shows him gettin' easy baskets, hittin shots, creating for himself and others, wow... i probably shouldn't have watched that.  how perfect would he compliment Roy? geez...


Yeah but if you look at the Jarret Jack youtube videos... he looks just as good as Harris. You can't put your money on a youtube video. It is easy to make a good highlight film.

*disclaimer* I am not saying I don't want Harris... just saying youtube does not define a player.


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## Resume (Jul 17, 2007)

Yega1979 said:


> *We went after Derek Anderson to be our "slasher" and what we ended up with was a crappy jump shooter. So hopefully Harris could pan out better than Derek.*


What does that have to do with anything??!? lol


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## Resume (Jul 17, 2007)

ProfitByProphet said:


> Who cares what a couple drunk fans think? Most sane people know that Devin Harris is not just good, but very good. And you're likely making that BS up about Avery not liking him. That's never been reported or commented on ever. Find one article or thread about it otherwise you're a liar.


You just been hatin on Zack all week huh? Why don't you relax. HE WAS AT THE GAME talking to Mavs fans. YOU WEREN'T. Why would Zack lie? Get off his tip man...


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## Masbee (Dec 31, 2002)

ZackAddy said:


> The Dallas fans next to me tonight do not think highly of Devin Harris and were more than ready to see him go. They say he's a turnover machine and doesn't know how to run an offense or make plays for his teammates. Says he's nothing more than a slasher and that Tony Parker runs circles around him (then again, who doesn't?)
> 
> I don't think that Devin is the answer to our problems, folks. He's more of the same. Let this trade go.


Oh, that settles it then. The opinion of a couple of Dallas fans is the final word.


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## MrJayremmie (Dec 29, 2007)

lol @ Jack's highlight tape being a little over 1 minute while Harris' is over 4 minutes.


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## MrJayremmie (Dec 29, 2007)

> keep in mind that Jack is younger, right?


no, actually they are the same age, which is why Haris >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jack. not even close.


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## e_blazer1 (Feb 3, 2004)

MrJayremmie said:


> no, actually they are the same age, which is why Haris >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jack. not even close.


It seems to me that if Harris were that much >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than Jack, the Mavs wouldn't be trying to trade him for an aging All-Star with maybe a couple of good seasons left in him.


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## Masbee (Dec 31, 2002)

ZackAddy said:


> They seemed to think that he does not make good decisions at all and that is why Avery doesn't like him. They say he's a turnover machine who doesn't know how to make plays for his teammates on a consistent basis.


Yet, compared to Tony Parker who they love, Harris has the SAME assist to turnover ratio.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/parketo01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/harride01.html

Did you also notice that Devin Harris is a more efficient scorer than Tony Parker? Look at eFG% and TS%.

Did you also notice that in this, his 4th season, Harris has a PER of 18.6. In his 4th season Parker's PER was 18.0.

Let me just lay it out for you: Those folks you sat next to are what is known as BLOWHARDS. People that have a strongly expressed opinion about a subject they in fact know only a little about.

Harris is not (yet) as good overall as Parker, though he has been a better scorer. He is no Chris Paul (then again nobody else in the NBA is right now), and nobody is trying to claim that he is a future Hall-of-Famer. But this assualt on reality is getting a little silly.


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## MrJayremmie (Dec 29, 2007)

> It seems to me that if Harris were that much >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than Jack, the Mavs wouldn't be trying to trade him for an aging All-Star with maybe a couple of good seasons left in him.


because for their team, Kidd is a great piece, a proven winner who can take them over the edge. He is a better true PG which is what they need. ANd honestly, like a lot of people, i would never even do Harris for Kidd straight up. Kidd gives you a 2 yr. window that is it.

Harris is a better defender, offensive player, and better in fastbreaks and at gettin' easy points.


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## Five5even (Jun 15, 2007)

Masbee said:


> Yet, compared to Tony Parker who they love, Harris has the SAME assist to turnover ratio.
> 
> http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/parketo01.html
> http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/harride01.html
> ...



whammy! well said...

its not that Harris is expected to be a savior to the Portland Trailblazers if he was to be traded here...

and with the whole Jarrett Jack comparison mumbo jumbo its not even close. Harris IS the better player and everyone here should be down with a Harris Deal - obviously within reason. And Zack has a few solid arguments...im not discounting the idea that Harris WONT be better than Jarrett Jack, or that he is right now. But if you look at what Jack does right now and what Harris does on the floor you have to wonder what our team could be like with a BETTER starting lineup than Dirk, Harris and Howard...try Roy, Harris, Oden, LMA

And im just sick and tired of seeing inexcusable turnovers or trainwreck fastbreaks being led by the Jarrett. Nothin against his game, but hes NOT a PG and he doesnt fit this team well like sergio and blake. With that said, please move Jack and lets try out Harris. This team needs a PG that can run the break and get up the floor and the only way that happens is if we take action. Harris is 24, learning, and has valuable playoff experience on a GOOD team. give him a look and see if he has any huevos...


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## ProfitByProphet (Jan 31, 2008)

Despite what ZA's friends said it appears as though Dallas fans quite upset about losing Harris

http://realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=761600&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

"Dallas always trades away point guards before they become stars - Kidd, Nash... Harris is no different. He'll be an amazing player and we don't have the patience to wait a year or two for it."

"Agree completely. Harris made the Maverick's successful because of his ability to put teams on their heels and completely alter the tempo of the game when he was on the court. He's the sole reason we could compete with the Suns' run and gun as well as an easy shutdown for iverson and parker. "

"Never going to be a "super-star", but his excellent shooting/quickness will vault him into a few all-star games."

"his defense is ptoentially the best in the league 1v1. His quickness and speed is right up thre with anyone in the league and e gets to the paint well and this year he finishes nicely. His passing is above average, though we didnt get to see it in Dallas with so many options that liked to go 1v1 (Dirk, Howard, Stack, Terry). 

New Jersey has gotten a great great deal and will love him."

"Wow nets ripped Dallas. Fire Avery"


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## Resume (Jul 17, 2007)

ZackAddy said:


> But I can easily imagine the proverbial "everyone" turning on him in here. Look at LMA. Everyone turned on Zach Randolph and was so excited about LMA. Now the proverbial "everyone" has turned on LMA. I remember when everyone hated Sheed and couldn't WAIT to give Zach his minutes. *It's a long standing tradition in here: Hate who you have.*


I can't agree more. Everyone hates who we have. I wish people could just be happy.


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## MrJayremmie (Dec 29, 2007)

> whammy! well said...
> 
> its not that Harris is expected to be a savior to the Portland Trailblazers if he was to be traded here...
> 
> ...


agree 100% great post.


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## hasoos (Jan 3, 2003)

You can argue stats all you want. I watch a lot of NBA ball and I would rather have Harris any day over Jack. The reason being, Jack makes the same mistakes over and over again, and never learns from his mistakes. When Harris makes a turnover it is usually because he plays agressive and tries to get to the rim. When Jack makes a turnover, it is usually because of him repeating one of the same bonehead mistaks over and over again. Lets look at these

*Running the fast break and looking down at the ground while dribbling, not looking around to take note of his surroundings.

*Forcing a pass that is not there.

*Lazy passes, such as the wonderful one last night to open the second half and set the tone for the whole team. Great job! 

There is absolutely nothing I hate worse than a player who never learns from their own mistakes. Jack never does, he repeats the same exact mistakes over and over again. 


I would recommend that folks who really need to make up their own mind here watch Harris play a bit, but since he is hurt, that is not an option.


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## ProfitByProphet (Jan 31, 2008)

Resume said:


> I can't agree more. Everyone hates who we have. I wish people could just be happy.


The only hate in this thread is coming from ZA and it's aimed at Harris. There's a much longer running tradition and that's to drastically overrate players simply because their on the Blazers.

This isn't hate, this is fact:
Harris is an elite defender. Jack is a poor defender.
Harris is elite at running the break. Jack is bottom of the league at running the break.
Harris is elite at getting to the paint and finishing with control. Jack is very poor at finishing and never seems to be in control.
Harris is one of the fastest players in NBA history. Jack is below average athletically for an NBA player.
Harris looks for his teammates and is a good passer. Jack dribbles the ball for 20 seconds and looks to score first.


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## ProfitByProphet (Jan 31, 2008)

The Spurs players are very happy to see Harris go and would much rather play against Kidd. But again, what do those fools know. ZA knows all and Harris just isn't as good as Jack.

"Two weeks ago, James said he thought being paired with Kidd would lead to a championship in Cleveland. But with Kidd likely going to Dallas, and Devin Harris going to Jersey, the Spurs seemed to feel better about their chances. In the past, Harris had burned the Spurs, including an 18-point, five-assist game earlier this season.

Maybe they would never say it to camera and microphones, but based on the locker room chatter, it sounded like the Spurs players would rather deal with Kidd instead of Harris at this point. Not to mention the Spurs wouldn't mind not seeing Jerry Stackhouse in two weeks when the teams meet up."


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## e_blazer1 (Feb 3, 2004)

ProfitByProphet said:


> *deleted*


Here's a concept that seems to have eluded you: ZA said he overheard "some" fans at the game who had some negative things to say about Harris. "Some" is not equal to "all" or "every". You can't conceive of a couple of Dallas fans, who maybe were dreaming of Kidd leading them to a title, might say that they think Harris isn't the world's greatest point guard? Do you seriously believe that, "*Every* fan here, on other forums, and reported on by the media loves Harris and would rather have him than Kidd"? Sheesh.

And, if you can't keep the personal crap out of your posts, why don't you head on over to the OLive forum? You should fit right in there.


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## Reep (Jun 4, 2003)

ProfitByProphet said:


> *deleted*


Irony alert!


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## Masbee (Dec 31, 2002)

ProfitByProphet said:


> *deleted*


78 posts and half of them include direct insults of other posters.

At least your shooting (from the hip) percentage is high!

You won't last long posting in this manner. Read up on the board rules lest you are banned sooner rather than later.


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## MrJayremmie (Dec 29, 2007)

I'd rather play vs. Kidd then HArris any day.

Kidd won't get all the easy points Harris will. Kidd can't shoot as well as harris or drive as well. Kidd can't defend as good as harris. Kidd isn't near as fast or athletic than Harris.

Kidd is better at gettin' his teammates involved, and is a better leader, which you need if you plan to keep your window open for only 2 more years, after that, 3-4 top notch teams in the west are gonna fall flat on their faces toward the bottom of the conference.

I heard on 1st and 10 that the Spurs were happy as hell when they heard Harris might go over to NJ, because Harris is the only player that can shut down Parker, and is every bit as athletic if not faster, and a better vertical.

Harris is by no means an all star, but he is a top 10 pg in the NBA. He is probably a top 3 PG 24 and under. He is the perfect compliment to Roy. WE do need to consolidate roster space and shake things up with our recent play. 

I just think it is a no brainer, Jack isn't part of the long term of this team anyway, neither is Frye. Sergio depends how he develops, but Harris seems like the PG that can take this team to the promise land with Roy at SG, and thebest duo big men in the NBA.


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## drexlersdad (Jun 3, 2006)

Harris is better at everything than jack. now including frye is no problem. but then webster or outlaw, plus raefs large expiring, AND our #1? idk man. if kp doesnt make this move, i would hope the move he DOES make will make everyone forget about this.


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