# OT:Portland Marlins



## chromekilla (Aug 21, 2005)

i just heard the florida marlins are looking for a new place to play.Moving out of Florida because of team interest.Anyone think they would move to portland and play in pge pack maybe until a new one got built.I know i would watch games that had the dtrain.It would be nice to have a baseball,and football team in portland.


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## tlong (Jan 6, 2003)

IMHO, Portland will never have a MLB team because the public will never subsidize the construction of a new baseball stadium.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

tlong said:


> IMHO, Portland will never have a MLB team because the public will never subsidize the construction of a new baseball stadium.


Yah, shame that we passed a bill that made it so the public doesn't have to subsidize the construction of a new stadium.

whats next, we'd need a "retractable roof" nonesense?


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

Zidane said:


> i just heard the florida marlins are looking for a new place to play.Moving out of Florida because of team interest.Anyone think they would move to portland and play in pge pack maybe until a new one got built.I know i would watch games that had the dtrain.It would be nice to have a baseball,and football team in portland.


It'd be really sweet if we got a team (altho I have a preference for AL). I just seriously doubt that the Marlins are doing anything but just trying to put Miami over a barrell. And even if they are serious about moving, Vegas is much more "pretty", due to the money that surrounds the city. 

But the minute MLB puts a team in Vegas, is the minute they'll have to let Pete Rose back into baseball. 

If MLB knew what was good for them (if the team/teams moves) they'd put a team in Portland (and probably one in another untapped market if another team moves).

But, since this is MLB we're talking about here, I'll believe it only after they don't change the rules for moving to suit their wallet (can't say I blame them for doing that last time).


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## chromekilla (Aug 21, 2005)

That sucks.I would love to watch baseball somewhere close considering ive never been to a pro football,baseball game.


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## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

tlong said:


> IMHO, Portland will never have a MLB team because the public will never subsidize the construction of a new baseball stadium.


IMHO, we've just found ANOTHER topic that you know nothing about.

Hap beat me to the punch, but here's a nice link where there's a lot of information to prove you wrong.

http://www.oregonbaseballcampaign.com/


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## sa1177 (Feb 18, 2005)

As much as I would love to see a MLB team here I still don't think we could support one. With the amount of games played in the MLB season I don't think Portland has the fanbase to support a MLB ball club just yet.


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## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

Hap said:


> It'd be really sweet if we got a team (altho I have a preference for AL). I just seriously doubt that the Marlins are doing anything but just trying to put Miami over a barrell. And even if they are serious about moving, Vegas is much more "pretty", due to the money that surrounds the city.
> 
> But the minute MLB puts a team in Vegas, is the minute they'll have to let Pete Rose back into baseball.
> 
> ...


Of course, there's the gambling issue in vegas. The tiny little Sports Action Oregon Lottery program kept NCAA basketball tournements and other big time sporting events out for years. Besides, nobody goes to Vegas for a baseball game.


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## Pay Ton (Apr 18, 2003)

I honestly don't understand why you guys don't have a baseball team already. Portland just seems like a sports kind of town. I think a baseball team would do really good in Portland, but again I'm not sure since I don't live there.

Anyways...yeah I think you guys deserve your own team, but from what I've heard it's either Las Vegas or Jersey. They are really hoping for Vegas, but of course they'd need to build a stadium.


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## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

sa1177 said:


> As much as I would love to see a MLB team here I still don't think we could support one. With the amount of games played in the MLB season I don't think Portland has the fanbase to support a MLB ball club just yet.


We get the highest TV ratings of any market in the country that doesn't currently have baseball. Third overall, last time I heard.

We have plenty of support. Plus, we're still the most underserved professional sports market. (Aside from NY and LA, but they won't be getting another baseball team any time soon.)


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

sa1177 said:


> As much as I would love to see a MLB team here I still don't think we could support one. With the amount of games played in the MLB season I don't think Portland has the fanbase to support a MLB ball club just yet.


why not? I'd suggest you go to the link fork supplied.


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## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

Hap said:


> why not? I'd suggest you go to the link fork supplied.


Yes. There are some very knowledgable people who post there...and Hap too.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

Fork said:


> Yes. There are some very knowledgable people who post there...and Hap too.


I was just about to say "well, I post there too, so I don't know if I'd say that"..but than I realized you beat me to the punch! haha, zing!


wait a second... :curse:


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

Pay Ton said:


> I honestly don't understand why you guys don't have a baseball team already. Portland just seems like a sports kind of town. I think a baseball team would do really good in Portland, but again I'm not sure since I don't live there.
> 
> Anyways...yeah I think you guys deserve your own team, but from what I've heard it's either Las Vegas or Jersey. They are really hoping for Vegas, but of course they'd need to build a stadium.


New Jersey already has a team (in proximity)..it's called the Yankees and Mets.

MLB putting a 3rd team in that market, albeit a huge one, would be stupid.

Vegas is just a pretty gem that looks good from a distance, but not in practice.


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## sa1177 (Feb 18, 2005)

Hap said:


> why not? I'd suggest you go to the link fork supplied.


That link is all speculation and projection. I love the idea but am simply saying I don't think we have the fanbase to support it. There is just to much else to do in the Portland area which would keep folks away from attending Baseball on a regular basis. Mountains, Ocean, outdoor recreation etc. This is a major reason the CO Rockies franchise has struggled with their attendance. 

As the novelty of the first few years I believe we would struggle with attendance. Sure we could get 20-25k at games but that's not really supporting a team IMO. 

I really would love to see it happen but looking at it from a pure business standpoint I don't think it's all that economically viable. A team that moves here will struggle to make $. 

With all that said I still hope we get a shot at it and that I am proven wrong. :biggrin:


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## tlong (Jan 6, 2003)

Hap said:


> Yah, shame that we passed a bill that made it so the public doesn't have to subsidize the construction of a new stadium.
> 
> whats next, we'd need a "retractable roof" nonesense?



That's funny. I don't see any stadium being built?


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

tlong said:


> That's funny. I don't see any stadium being built?


thats funny, you're one again, wrong.

The stadium will be built once the team gets here, and is dependant SOLEY on us getting a team.

try again.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

sa1177 said:


> That link is all speculation and projection. I love the idea but am simply saying I don't think we have the fanbase to support it. There is just to much else to do in the Portland area which would keep folks away from attending Baseball on a regular basis. Mountains, Ocean, outdoor recreation etc. This is a major reason the CO Rockies franchise has struggled with their attendance.


the reason why the rockies have struggled isn't because of "other things to do" (which is the biggest cop out in the world).

EVERY city that has a sports team has "other things" to do.



> As the novelty of the first few years I believe we would struggle with attendance. Sure we could get 20-25k at games but that's not really supporting a team IMO.
> 
> I really would love to see it happen but looking at it from a pure business standpoint I don't think it's all that economically viable. A team that moves here will struggle to make $.
> 
> With all that said I still hope we get a shot at it and that I am proven wrong. :biggrin:


I think too much is made out of the attendance #'s. If we have a decent owner, and he/they have a decent tv contract/concessions etc, they'd be ok. I think people are fooling themselves if they think we have to be competitive right away for fans to go. It'll take a while for a fan base to happen, but we shouldn't avoid getting a team because of nonsensical notions that it's not "economically viable".


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

A couple of notes....

With the Nationals across the Creek in DC, Northern Virginia is outof the picture.

Also this time around we have a team owner in charge of the hunt last time around MLB was the team owner and placed IMO stronger criteria out there than an individual owner will.

Well I guess I need to put the Bring Baseball to Oregon window sticker back in the truck.


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## tlong (Jan 6, 2003)

Hap said:


> thats funny, you're one again, wrong.
> 
> The stadium will be built once the team gets here, and is dependant SOLEY on us getting a team.
> 
> try again.



Ooooohhhhh! I see. We have to have a team first! *Then * we build the stadium!



That'll work


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

Schilly said:


> A couple of notes....
> 
> With the Nationals across the Creek in DC, Northern Virginia is outof the picture.
> 
> ...


MLB also wanted the best $$ for their dollar.Since 29 owners owned the Expos (+ MLB itself, iirc) they wanted the most they could get to not only make money when they did sell the team, but also to make up for their lost money they loaned the Expos franchise.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

tlong said:


> Ooooohhhhh! I see. We have to have a team first! *Then * we build the stadium!
> 
> 
> 
> That'll work


so you suggest we build it first and then hope to get a team?

Yah, that'll work..


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

tlong said:


> Ooooohhhhh! I see. We have to have a team first! *Then * we build the stadium!
> 
> 
> 
> That'll work


Well that's the way the contingency was written. Of course why bother reading anything about anything when you can simply spout?


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## tlong (Jan 6, 2003)

Hap said:


> so you suggest we build it first and then hope to get a team?
> 
> Yah, that'll work..



Can you name any teams during the last 20 years that didn't have a stadium before they located to their city? Didn't think so.


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

Hap said:


> MLB also wanted the best $$ for their dollar.Since 29 owners owned the Expos (+ MLB itself, iirc) they wanted the most they could get to not only make money when they did sell the team, but also to make up for their lost money they loaned the Expos franchise.


And of course the issue of ownership was a part of the equation witht he Expos/Nationals


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## tlong (Jan 6, 2003)

Schilly said:


> Well that's the way the contingency was written. Of course why bother reading anything about anything when you can simply spout?



I can spout because I'm *right.* There is no team here. There is no stadium here.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

tlong said:


> Can you name any teams during the last 20 years that didn't have a stadium before they located to their city? Didn't think so.


hm, the New Orleans Hornets moved to New Orleans before they had their new Arena built..

The Bobcats were awarded an NBA team before they had their stadium built (played in eone that was ok)..

The Nationals are playing in a temp home..

The Titans played in a different *CITY* in Tennessee before they moved to their final home..

temp homes are not an uncommon situation, despite what you want to think about it.

MLB has said that PGE park would be an acceptable temp home field, despite what you think about it.


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

tlong said:


> Can you name any teams during the last 20 years that didn't have a stadium before they located to their city? Didn't think so.


Don't have to name one. The tema only has to commit to moving to Portland AKA sign a contract and the stdium will be built. Worst case scenario they do a minor renovation on good ole PGE and the team plays there for 1 season...Seems to me that it is pheasable that say the Marlins agree and sign a contract with the city of Portland to move to Portland in 2008. They agree sometime in 2006 that gives a year and a half or so to build a new stadium. Maybe a little more time....But hey Telfairs too short.


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

tlong said:


> I can spout because I'm *right.* There is no team here. There is no stadium here.


You're only right because you make an indisputable point for right now, but what about for 2008? BTW how much does Miss Cleo charge anyway?


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## sa1177 (Feb 18, 2005)

Hap said:


> the reason why the rockies have struggled isn't because of "other things to do" (which is the biggest cop out in the world).
> 
> *EVERY city that has a sports team has "other things" to do.*
> 
> I think too much is made out of the attendance #'s. If we have a decent owner, and he/they have a decent tv contract/concessions etc, they'd be ok. I think people are fooling themselves if they think we have to be competitive right away for fans to go. It'll take a while for a fan base to happen, but we shouldn't avoid getting a team because of *nonsensical notions that it's not "economically viable*".


Think about it HAP..Portland has much more recreational activities available to it's residents then almost any other city in the nation. People here love the outdoors and it's why many of them move here. You can take countless cities in the Midwest and find that their really isn't much to do there. Have you spent time in K.C, Clevelend, St Louis, Baltimore. My point was that Portland offers so many alternatives to going to a baseball game that other MLB cities do not offer. 

The same can be said of Denver.

So a "if you build it they will come" attitude is sensical? 

Another problem exists as well....if we get a team to come here where will they play while the stadium is being built. Anyone who was at the Women's World Cup at PGE will tell you that stadium doesn't work well for 25k+ fans. You can't even move in the concourse.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

sa1177 said:


> Think about it HAP..Portland has much more recreational activities available to it's residents then almost any other city in the nation. People here love the outdoors and it's why many of them move here. You can take countless cities in the Midwest and find that their really isn't much to do there. Have you spent time in K.C, Clevelend, St Louis, Baltimore. My point was that Portland offers so many alternatives to going to a baseball game that other MLB cities do not offer.
> 
> The same can be said of Denver.



it's a fallacy that people use as a reason why we shouldn't get another team here. It's one the Blazers tried to force down our throats years ago.

While there is "things to do", the # of Portlanders who actually DO that (and people in Vancouver, Salem, Eugene, Corvallis, and the coast) is surprisingly small. Portlanders like to think we're an "out-doorsy" group, but we're really not as much of one as we try to project.


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

sa1177 said:


> Think about it HAP..Portland has much more recreational activities available to it's residents then almost any other city in the nation. People here love the outdoors and it's why many of them move here. You can take countless cities in the Midwest and find that their really isn't much to do there. Have you spent time in K.C, Clevelend, St Louis, Baltimore. My point was that Portland offers so many alternatives to going to a baseball game that other MLB cities do not offer.
> 
> The same can be said of Denver.


What about Seattle? 

What about Weeknights? It's not like people go camping on weeknights.


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

BTW one thing you can count on, almost as much as the sun coming up, is that tlong will fight the concept of MLB in Portland. I think MLB in Portland would be great for a lot of local companies, especially like companies dealing in sports and sports apparel who's main copmpetitor is now all over the Rose Garden, and Blazers Players. That way they can entertain their sports minded employess witha local franchise that they sponser.


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## tlong (Jan 6, 2003)

Schilly said:


> What about Seattle?
> 
> What about Weeknights? It's not like people go camping on weeknights.



Seattle's population density is much greater than Portland's.


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

tlong said:


> Seattle's population density is much greater than Portland's.


Correct me if I'm wrong but so is Denvers.


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## sa1177 (Feb 18, 2005)

Schilly said:


> What about Seattle?
> 
> What about Weeknights? It's not like people go camping on weeknights.


Seattle has 1.5 million people more then we do so it's a moot point. Camping wasn't the only activity I was referring to.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

sa1177 said:


> So a "if you build it they will come" attitude is sensical?


yes it is. Why should we build a stadium out of our pockets, when we already have a bill that passed the state legislator, that means Portlanders don't pay a tax to build a stadium when we DO get a team?

see; tampa bay and how they build the tropicana dome a long time before they were awarded a team (because they were told once you build it, we'll move a team there..and did like 15 years later).



> Another problem exists as well....if we get a team to come here where will they play while the stadium is being built. Anyone who was at the Women's World Cup at PGE will tell you that stadium doesn't work well for 25k+ fans. You can't even move in the concourse.


for a year or two, we'll survive. Or as Schilly pointed out, they could start it prior to the team actually playing here.


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

sa1177 said:


> Seattle has 1.5 million people more then we do so it's a moot point. Camping wasn't the only activity I was referring to.


I realize that, but honestly people all over the country golf....You ever look at a map of the number of Golf courses in say Chicago? Everywhere...I live in Prototype Suburbia, almost everyone in my neighborhood comes home mows the lawn and watches the Mariners.


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## sa1177 (Feb 18, 2005)

Hap said:


> it's a fallacy that people use as a reason why we shouldn't get another team here. It's one the Blazers tried to force down our throats years ago.
> 
> While there is "things to do", the # of Portlanders who actually DO that (and people in Vancouver, Salem, Eugene, Corvallis, and the coast) is surprisingly small. Portlanders like to think we're an "out-doorsy" group, but we're really not as much of one as we try to project.


We can argue about it being a fallacy all day and never reach agreement. I am not saying it's 100% fact just saying I do think it would have a affect on Portland supporting a MLB team. I want to see another pro sports franchise here as much as the next guy but i am just not sure baseball is feasible at this point. 

Frankly I think we would need to build the stadium first then bring in a team.


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## sa1177 (Feb 18, 2005)

Schilly said:


> I realize that, but honestly people all over the country golf....You ever look at a map of the number of Golf courses in say Chicago? Everywhere...I live in Prototype Suburbia, almost everyone in my neighborhood comes home mows the lawn and watches the Mariners.


They watch them on TV..big difference from forking over 25-50$ minimum a night and going down to the stadium.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

sa1177 said:


> Seattle has 1.5 million people more then we do so it's a moot point. Camping wasn't the only activity I was referring to.


actually, Seattle doesn't have 1.5 million more people. For starters, the city has about 35K more, the metro area is more, but it's also including more area.

As per the "per square mileage", Seattle is also (size wise) about a 3rd smaller (denver's density is atually less than Portlands).

http://www.demographia.com/db-uscity98.htm


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

This looks sooo Right


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## sa1177 (Feb 18, 2005)

Hap said:


> actually, Seattle doesn't have 1.5 million more people. For starters, the city has about 35K more, the metro area is more, but it's also including more area.
> 
> As per the "per square mileage", Seattle is also (size wise) about a 3rd smaller (denver's density is atually less than Portlands).
> 
> http://www.demographia.com/db-uscity98.htm


Lol u knew what I meant...metro area = fanbase and Seattle's is much bigger then ours.


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

sa1177 said:


> They watch them on TV..big difference from forking over 25-50$ minimum a night and going down to the stadium.


Are you talking per seat or per person? Baseball last I checked wasn't as expensive to attend as basketball


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## sa1177 (Feb 18, 2005)

Schilly said:


> Are you talking per seat or per person? Baseball last I checked wasn't as expensive to attend as basketball


A decent season ticket seat costs somewhere along those lines unless I am very mistaken. Sure you can get 10-15$ seats but not every seat in the stadium is that cheap.


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## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

I'm moving to Houston in a month or so, so that almost assures Portland of getting MLB and probably NFL as well. 


On a side note it saddens me that talk of the SEATTLE Seahawks and Mariners isn't off topic if it has anything to do with Portland, but your topic has to be off topic.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

sa1177 said:


> They watch them on TV..big difference from forking over 25-50$ minimum a night and going down to the stadium.


at least 10% of Seattles Ticket sales come from Portland..so that means a good chunk of Seattles fans drive 3 hours to go to games.

And those people from from Roseburg, Eugene, Medford, Pendleton, etc..

there's a big enough base here.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

sa1177 said:


> Lol u knew what I meant...metro area = fanbase and Seattle's is much bigger then ours.


they also have to deal with the Mariners, Seahawks, Sonics and Huskies for tickets. 

Whereas, Portland would have 2 teams battling over over 2 million fans just in our area, not including Eugene and southern oregon, where people would come for games.


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## sa1177 (Feb 18, 2005)

Hap said:


> they also have to deal with the Mariners, Seahawks, Sonics and Huskies for tickets.
> 
> Whereas, Portland would have 2 teams battling over over 2 million fans just in our area, not including Eugene and southern oregon, where people would come for games.


People already drive to OSU and UO games on a weekly basis during the season so 3 Teams is more accurate. 

Sure I think it could work but I am speaking more of sustainability here.


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## tlong (Jan 6, 2003)

For a little more in-depth analysis of your Oregon Stadium Campaign bill read this.

http://oregonmag.com/Evans1003.htm


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

sa1177 said:


> People already drive to OSU and UO games on a weekly basis during the season so 3 Teams is more accurate.
> 
> Sure I think it could work but I am speaking more of sustainability here.


well, considering most of the UO and OSU football seasons (the only one where large #'s of fans go a distance) are mostly done after baseball season is over with, I don't see how they're an issue, especialyl since they're not in the city like the Huskies, Hawks, Mariners and Sonics are.


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## chromekilla (Aug 21, 2005)

I would come to any baseball games i could.I know many people from southern oregon would come as well as many from central oregon.


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## sa1177 (Feb 18, 2005)

Hap said:


> well, considering most of the UO and OSU football seasons (the only one where large #'s of fans go a distance) are mostly done after baseball season is over with, *I don't see how they're an issue*, especialyl since they're not in the city like the Huskies, Hawks, Mariners and Sonics are.


Very simple... the majority of people only have so much money to spend on sports.


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## cpt.napalm (Feb 23, 2005)

You could also pull some from Idaho I bet. It is a quicker drive down 84 from Boise to Portland then to Seattle.


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## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

tlong said:


> For a little more in-depth analysis of your Oregon Stadium Campaign bill read this.
> 
> http://oregonmag.com/Evans1003.htm


Nice source. hahahahaha. Couldn't you find a Bazooka Joe cartoon or something a little more reliable? Oregon Magazine? I wouldn't line a bird cage with that rag.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

sa1177 said:


> Very simple... the majority of people only have so much money to spend on sports.


thats true of all cities. I don't know why Portland is some special case. It just seems that some people don't want Portland to get a team because then they'd have to admit we're getting more people are here.


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## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

Hap said:


> thats true of all cities. I don't know why Portland is some special case. It just seems that some people don't want Portland to get a team because then they'd have to admit we're getting more people are here.


Yep. It's that small town mentality. People still want to think of Portland as a 'big small town' despite the fact that the metro area has 2.3 million people and we're growing as fast as just about any metro area in the country. 

There's a laundry list of solid, legitimate arguments that Portland SHOULD have another pro sports team and I've never heard a legit reason why we SHOULDN'T.


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## SolidGuy3 (Apr 23, 2005)

Portland can't support another team, plain and simple. We don't have a large enough fan base. We have like the 50th largest media market if I'm not mistaken. Anyways the Seattle Mariners would block any team trying to come to Portland, it would take away from their profits. The reason Seattle has a football and baseball team is because there is interest there, they have lots of people. Anyways I'm happy with the situation right now in the Pacific Northwest, think of Oregon and Washington as one state, having 4 major sport franchises is right about where it should be at. Plus where are we going to to build a stadium, we have no room lol, I commute to and from downtown and there is simply no space for another arena, not to mention what it would do to traffic.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

SolidGuy3 said:


> Portland can't support another team, plain and simple. We don't have a large enough fan base. We have like the 50th largest media market if I'm not mistaken.



you are sadly mistaken. We are the 24th.As seen here.



> Anyways the Seattle Mariners would block any team trying to come to Portland, it would take away from their profits.


tough for them. We're 180 miles south, and a different state. They can whine all they want, but they don't control us.



> The reason Seattle has a football and baseball team is because there is interest there, they have lots of people.


not enough more than Portland to justify them having 2 more pro teams. Also, if you don't think there's an interest for and of baseball here, you really need to check your Portland sports history.



> Anyways I'm happy with the situation right now in the Pacific Northwest, think of Oregon and Washington as one state, having 4 major sport franchises is right about where it should be at. Plus where are we going to to build a stadium, we have no room lol, I commute to and from downtown and there is simply no space for another arena, not to mention what it would do to traffic.


hey, Kansas City should get rid of their football team and their baseball team..I mean, St. Louis IS in the same state, and they have a MLB, NFL and NHL team.

amazing the miss-information in this post..


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## barfo (Jan 2, 2003)

SolidGuy3 said:


> Portland can't support another team, plain and simple.


Uhm, I don't think that can be determined for sure at this time.


SolidGuy3 said:


> We don't have a large enough fan base. We have like the 50th largest media market if I'm not mistaken.


Uhm, you are mistaken.


SolidGuy3 said:


> Anyways the Seattle Mariners would block any team trying to come to Portland, it would take away from their profits.


Uhm, mistaken again.


SolidGuy3 said:


> The reason Seattle has a football and baseball team is because there is interest there, they have lots of people.


Uhm, yes!


SolidGuy3 said:


> Anyways I'm happy with the situation right now in the Pacific Northwest, think of Oregon and Washington as one state, having 4 major sport franchises is right about where it should be at.


Uhm, ok, as long as you are happy, that's all that matters.


SolidGuy3 said:


> Plus where are we going to to build a stadium, we have no room lol, I commute to and from downtown and there is simply no space for another arena, not to mention what it would do to traffic.


Uhm, yeah. You forgot to mention that aliens will attack the earth if we get a team.

barfo


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## SolidGuy3 (Apr 23, 2005)

Realistically people, I would love for there to be a baseball and football team in Oregon but it's not going to happen anytime soon so don't get your hopes up. Look at the attendance of the Blazers this season, it's horrible so many empty seats. Football won't come here until Sports Action is abolished plus you forgot the most important thing of all, WEST COAST BIAS.


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## cpt.napalm (Feb 23, 2005)

This should answer a lot of the questions in this thread.

http://www.oregonstadiumcampaign.com/submission.html

Forum dedicated to the cause:

http://obc.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x

Plus as an added bonus my design for a stadium on the Post Office lot:

http://obc.infopop.cc/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/3336063335/m/1246023625/p/7


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## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

SolidGuy3 said:


> Look at the attendance of the Blazers this season, it's horrible so many empty seats. Football won't come here until Sports Action is abolished plus you forgot the most important thing of all, WEST COAST BIAS.


Sports action has been abolished.


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## SolidGuy3 (Apr 23, 2005)

Anyways what happened to the Portland Forest Dragons, I remember going to a couple of games with my co-workers, did they move!? Portland should get an arena football team. In order for us to get big league franchises we need to start small and work our way up, you can't just say we want a big league franchise, it doesn't work that way.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

SolidGuy3 said:


> Realistically people, I would love for there to be a baseball and football team in Oregon but it's not going to happen anytime soon so don't get your hopes up. Look at the attendance of the Blazers this season, it's horrible so many empty seats. Football won't come here until Sports Action is abolished plus you forgot the most important thing of all, WEST COAST BIAS.


attendance #'s for the blazers bear nothing on whether or not we'd be able to support a team. Why is this a faulty rationale? Well, for starters if the team did have decent #'s, you'd use that as proof that there's not enough extra fans..

Who cares if the NFL wouldn't come here (whatkind of support does the NFL have that you can systematically point to that you can't also point to in regards to MLB?).

Whether or not we can support a team isn't the same as whether or not MLB will put a team here.


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## barfo (Jan 2, 2003)

SolidGuy3 said:


> Realistically people, I would love for there to be a baseball and football team in Oregon but it's not going to happen anytime soon so don't get your hopes up. Look at the attendance of the Blazers this season, it's horrible so many empty seats. Football won't come here until Sports Action is abolished plus you forgot the most important thing of all, WEST COAST BIAS.


WEST COAST BIAS? 

What is WEST COAST BIAS?

Is that what kept SD, SF, LA, and Seattle from getting teams?

barfo


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

SolidGuy3 said:


> Anyways what happened to the Portland Forest Dragons, I remember going to a couple of games with my co-workers, did they move!? Portland should get an arena football team. In order for us to get big league franchises we need to start small and work our way up, you can't just say we want a big league franchise, it doesn't work that way.


dude, seriously..how can anyone take you seriously if you don't even know that the arena football league team that was here about 7 years ago, is gone or not?

or that we should just get another "minor league team" as tho thats what will prove we should get a team. We've gone the minor league route, we're not a minor league city.


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## barfo (Jan 2, 2003)

SolidGuy3 said:


> Anyways what happened to the Portland Forest Dragons, I remember going to a couple of games with my co-workers, did they move!? Portland should get an arena football team. In order for us to get big league franchises we need to start small and work our way up, you can't just say we want a big league franchise, it doesn't work that way.


You can't make nonsensical, factually incorrect assertions and think that will convince us, it doesn't work that way.

barfo


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

barfo said:


> You can't make nonsensical, factually incorrect arguments and think that will convince us, it doesn't work that way.
> 
> barfo


while I miss the funny barfo, I like the new and improved funny barfo.


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## SolidGuy3 (Apr 23, 2005)

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=2233891 

Las Vegas will get a baseball team before us.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

SolidGuy3 said:


> http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=2233891
> 
> Las Vegas will get a baseball team before us.


you do realize that's just the opinion of a writer, right?


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## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

Hap said:


> you do realize that's just the opinion of a writer, right?


But...it's Jayson Stark. He knows everything !!!!!!111


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## SolidGuy3 (Apr 23, 2005)

Ok, I will tell the truth, there is a good reason why I don't want Portland to have a football or baseball team. My favorite baseball team is the Seattle Mariners, I try to go to their games as much as I can. My favorite football team is the Seattle Seahawks, Shaun Alexander is the most underrrated RB in the league, I have been to every home game this season! If Portland got a team, then the Mariners and Seahawks would be our arch rivals and I don't think I can stop loving them.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

SolidGuy3 said:


> Ok, I will tell the truth, there is a good reason why I don't want Portland to have a football or baseball team. My favorite baseball team is the Seattle Mariners, I try to go to their games as much as I can. My favorite football team is the Seattle Seahawks, Shaun Alexander is the most underrrated RB in the league, I have been to every home game this season! If Portland got a team, then the Mariners and Seahawks would be our arch rivals and I don't think I can stop loving them.


um, if we got an NL team (the marlins are an NL team) you could still be a mariners fan.

I'm a Boston Red Sox fan..if we got an NL team, I'd STILL be a Red Sox fan.


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## SheedSoNasty (Dec 31, 2002)

Hap said:


> thats funny, you're one again, wrong.
> 
> The stadium will be built once the team gets here, and is dependant SOLEY on us getting a team.
> 
> try again.


Sorry, I havn't read the rest of this thread.

Is this for real?

If so... awesome.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

SheedSoNasty said:


> Sorry, I havn't read the rest of this thread.
> 
> Is this for real?
> 
> If so... awesome.


you're not missing much, don't bother reading hte rest of it..

it's true in the sense that a bill was passed and if we get a team it will be enacted and portlanders (cept those who go to the game, and would be paying for tickets/parking/food anyways) wouldnt' eb paying taxes for the stadium.

The money that the players make would be going towards the stadiumt ho, but the money that the team brings in via building the stadium, playing here, selling food/goods/whatever here, and tourism here, would make up for it.


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## SheedSoNasty (Dec 31, 2002)

Thanks for the info, Hap.


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## Utherhimo (Feb 20, 2005)

yeah its time for portland nfl is said to be interested in putting a team here: MLS, NFL and MLB!

Portland Marlins? Portland Chinook!


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

Well if it means we get a MLB team I'm all for a ceremonial boot to the butt on MM to make it happen faster.


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## RPCity (Aug 29, 2005)

Utherhimo said:


> yeah its time for portland nfl is said to be interested in putting a team here: MLS, NFL and MLB!
> 
> Portland Marlins? Portland Chinook!


There already is a team called the Portland Chinook isn't there? The ABL basketball team if I'm correct.....

Anyway....I dont feel like reading past the first page on this thread....but I think it'd be great. I think we need an NL team (can't stand the DH rule) and it would make for a regular rivalry for interleague play with Seattle. I think it would be a brilliant move.


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## tlong (Jan 6, 2003)

Hap said:


> you're not missing much, don't bother reading hte rest of it..
> 
> it's true in the sense that a bill was passed and if we get a team it will be enacted and portlanders (cept those who go to the game, and would be paying for tickets/parking/food anyways) wouldnt' eb paying taxes for the stadium.
> 
> The money that the players make would be going towards the stadiumt ho, but the money that the team brings in via building the stadium, playing here, selling food/goods/whatever here, and tourism here, would make up for it.



That bill you refer to _might _ raise about $150 million. Where would the other $350 million or so come from that would be needed to build the stadium?


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## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

tlong said:


> That bill you refer to _might _ raise about $150 million. Where would the other $350 million or so come from that would be needed to build the stadium?


So...stadia cost $500 million now, do they? 

Yawn. Yet another ridiculous exaggeration from tlong. It wouldn't even cost that much in Canadian dollars. 

Pac Bell, considered by most to be the best ballpark in MLB, cost $350 million. PNC Park (Pittsburgh) cost $262 million. 

To explain where the money would come from...

Payroll tax, ticket tax, Concession tax, Hotel and car rental tax. The team would pay a yearly lease on the stadium, taxes on companies that directly benefit from the stadium and seat licenses. The estimate is over $300 million can be raised pretty quickly.


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

tlong said:


> That bill you refer to _might _ raise about $150 million. Where would the other $350 million or so come from that would be needed to build the stadium?


Here is the whole financing plan

Funding (beginning on page 25)
SB5 - $115 million
Ticket Tax - $85 million
Stadium District - $56 million
Concessions/Merchandise Fee - $29 million
Hotel/Vehicle tax reallocation from PGE - $13 million
Team Lease (can be rebated) - $12 million
Charter Seats - $25 million
Tax Increment $10 million
Off Site Improvements - $5 million

Total 350mil, and BTW They are not talking about retractable roof as Portland. Portland would be the 6th Driest MLB City during the course of the baseball season.

April-October
San Diego 1.78"
LA 2.16"
San Fran 3.32"
Phoenix 3.77"
Denver 11.54"
Portland 12.07"
Seattle 13.2"

All other Cities are over 20" of rain during baseball season.



Thanks to Cactus Leaguer at the OBC forums.


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## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

Utherhimo said:


> yeah its time for portland nfl is said to be interested in putting a team here


Not bloody likely. LA still doesn't have a team. They'll get one first, then we can talk about other places getting a team.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

guys, he's not going to admit that he's wrong about something. Give it up. He'll argue till he's blue in the face that up is down, and down is up..and then he'll just act like he was "kidding".

it's a boring ploy by tlong.



Schilly said:


> Total 350mil, and BTW They are not talking about retractable roof as Portland. Portland would be the 6th Driest MLB City during the course of the baseball season.
> 
> April-October
> San Diego 1.78"
> ...



the funny thing is, during the peak of summer (June-Sept) we have like 4 inches of rain. Whats even funnier is the suggestion that we need a roof to make the stadium "multi-use"...

Whats the rose garden and convention centre for then?? How will the "multi-use" aspect of the stadium ever pay for the (min) extra 150 million it'd cost to make?? And notice that stadiums aren't being built for multi-use anymore.

Hey, I know, let's be the first on the block to build a concrete dome!


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## tlong (Jan 6, 2003)

Hap said:


> guys, he's not going to admit that he's wrong about something. Give it up. He'll argue till he's blue in the face that up is down, and down is up..and then he'll just act like he was "kidding".
> 
> it's a boring ploy by tlong.
> 
> ...



You are right. I will not admit I'm wrong, because I'm *right.* That financing plan has so many holes in it it's ridiculous.


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## chromekilla (Aug 21, 2005)

Oregon sports authority is supposedly trying really hard to get the marlins to come here.It was on nwcn and a few other news stations.


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## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

tlong said:


> You are right. I will not admit I'm wrong, because I'm *right.* That financing plan has so many holes in it it's ridiculous.


Yeah...it's too short!


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

tlong said:


> You are right. I will not admit I'm wrong, because I'm *right.* That financing plan has so many holes in it it's ridiculous.


Hey, if there's anyone that knows what an argument with many holes in it that it's a ridiculous argument, that'd be you.


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## tlong (Jan 6, 2003)

Hap said:


> Hey, if there's anyone that knows what an argument with many holes in it that it's a ridiculous argument, that'd be you.



Try posting something that makes sense next time, will ya?


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

tlong said:


> Try posting something that makes sense next time, will ya?


Hey, if there's anyone on this board who knows how to spot an argument that's so full of holes in it that it'd be considered ridiculous, it'd be you.


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## tlong (Jan 6, 2003)

Hap said:


> Hey, if there's anyone on this board who knows how to spot an argument that's so full of holes in it that it'd be considered ridiculous, it'd be you.



Much better. :clap:


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## Rob Allen (Oct 29, 2003)

Hap said:


> New Jersey already has a team (in proximity)..it's called the Yankees and Mets.
> 
> MLB putting a 3rd team in that market, albeit a huge one, would be stupid.


I dunno, the Rangers, Islanders and Devils have managed OK for a few decades now (that's NHL for those who might not be familiar). In the last few years there have been a couple of new minor league baseball teams in New Jersey; I don't know how well they're doing, but I wouldn't be all that surprised to see the Marlins talk to New Jersey.

A new question: if the Marlins do move here, what will they be called?

My suggestion: make the team colors black & white, and call them the Oregon Orcas.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

Rob Allen said:


> I dunno, the Rangers, Islanders and Devils have managed OK for a few decades now (that's NHL for those who might not be familiar). In the last few years there have been a couple of new minor league baseball teams in New Jersey; I don't know how well they're doing, but I wouldn't be all that surprised to see the Marlins talk to New Jersey.


but when the Devils moved from (Atlanta?) to New Jersey, there wasn't a lot of call from other cities for the team. And the financial situation that the NHL was in (and is in) is different. 

If the Pens were to move, chances are good they wouldn't be moving to Queens.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

btw


> The Marlins will see if another city will help close any funding gap. They were willing to put $212 million toward a new stadium in South Florida, and are believed to be seeking a similar deal elsewhere.


150 + 212 = 362


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

Just for curiosity's sake I took a look at the Populations of the Portland and Seattle areas. I basically tooka look at communities as of 2000 that were within a n hour or so and had 50K+ Population...my results.

Seattle	563,000
Tacoma	193,000
Bellvue	109,000
Everett	91,488
F Way	83,259
Kent	79,524
Lakewood 58,211
Renton 50,000
*Total - 1,227,482*

Portland 529,000
Vancouver 143,000
Salem 136,000
Gresham 90,205
Beaverton 76,129
Hillsboro 70,186
Clackamas 51,770
*Total - 1,096,290*

Total Difference 
*Seattle Area +131,192*

And thats a Market supporting 
Major Sports
Sonics
Seahawks
Mariners

Minor Leagues
Tacoma Rainiers
Everett Silvertips
Everett Aquasox
Seattle Thunderbirds

University of Washington

3 majors 4 minors and a Pac 10 School 

Vs Portland
Major
Blazers

Minor
Beavers Baseball
Winterhawks
Kaiser Volcanoes


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

Schilly said:


> Just for curiosity's sake I took a look at the Populations of the Portland and Seattle areas. I basically tooka look at communities as of 2000 that were within a n hour or so and had 50K+ Population...my results.
> 
> Seattle	563,000
> Tacoma	193,000
> ...


Brilliant work Schilly. I guess that sorta dispells another reason why we can't support a team.


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## Samuel (Jan 1, 2003)

Is there really a need to get so heated about such things?


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

Samuel said:


> Is there really a need to get so heated about such things?


anymore than there's a need to question if there's a need? I mean, is there really a need for us to gather together on a web site and discuss the Blazers?

get off the horse there sam, the airs thinner up there.


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## J_Bird (Mar 18, 2005)

Something fishy in Portland?


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## Nightfly (Sep 24, 2002)

If the Marlins move to Portland, they should call the team "The Portland Reign!"

...wait a minute...


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## Nightfly (Sep 24, 2002)

sa1177 said:


> Think about it HAP..Portland has much more recreational activities available to it's residents then almost any other city in the nation. People here love the outdoors and it's why many of them move here. You can take countless cities in the Midwest and find that their really isn't much to do there. Have you spent time in K.C, *Clevelend*, St Louis, Baltimore. My point was that Portland offers so many alternatives to going to a baseball game that other MLB cities do not offer.


I've been to Cleveland enough times to be able to say that there is more to do there then there is to do in Portland (aside from the number of places that there are to hike.)


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## Utherhimo (Feb 20, 2005)

HearToTemptYou said:


> If the Marlins move to Portland, they should call the team "The Portland Reign!"
> 
> ...wait a minute...


i saw them play they yanked us around at the ticket area we were late then they wouldnt take our tickets but we got in! The only thing that matter was that i got to see HA play his first US game and Monty was coaching in the lonnnnnnggggg white trench/mistro jacket.

if the marlins come to portland then i would go see them play.


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## #10 (Jul 23, 2004)

They're just using Portland as leverage to get their new stadium. We might get an MLS team sometime, but that's about it.


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## SolidGuy3 (Apr 23, 2005)

The Portland Marlins would never make it in this city. We can do better. 

*Portland Salmons*


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## Utherhimo (Feb 20, 2005)

I like the Portland Orcs or Coho or Elk?


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## SheedSoNasty (Dec 31, 2002)

SolidGuy3 said:


> The Portland Marlins would never make it in this city. We can do better.
> 
> *Portland Salmons*


It's "Salmon" not "Salmon*s*"


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

I've thought this over quite a bit...

Thinking of the old White Stag sign on the River...

The Portland Stags

Or Going regional
Portland Silvers (Silver Salmon)
Portland Redsides (Variety of trout)

Of course the old standbys
Portland Pioneers

And something birdlike as many baseball teams
Portland Herons


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## barfo (Jan 2, 2003)

Introoooducing.... yourrrrrrr Poooorrrrrrttttland Scapegoats!

barfo


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## SolidGuy3 (Apr 23, 2005)

SheedSoNasty said:


> It's "Salmon" not "Salmon*s*"


Everybody tell me whose right on this one. Would it be Salmons or Salmon? If they say Marlins it has to be Salmons, like Herons, etc.


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## SheedSoNasty (Dec 31, 2002)

SolidGuy3 said:


> Everybody tell me whose right on this one. Would it be Salmons or Salmon? If they say Marlins it has to be Salmons, like Herons, etc.


Like if we say "cows" is should also be "sheeps"?

http://www.readinga-z.com/newfiles/levels/lesson_plans/q/salmon/salmon_print.html

Scroll down to "Build Skill" then "Grammar and Mechanics"

_ one salmon = salmon more than one salmon=salmon _


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## Target (Mar 17, 2004)

sa1177 said:


> As much as I would love to see a MLB team here I still don't think we could support one. With the amount of games played in the MLB season I don't think Portland has the fanbase to support a MLB ball club just yet.


Fanbase is directly proportional to ticket prices. Keep the price down and they will come.


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## Utherhimo (Feb 20, 2005)

now what would you name the NHL NFL and MLS teams?

Oregon Loggers (nfl)
Portland Timbers (mls just promote the team)
Portland Coho (nhl)

I like the Orcas idea for the Oregon Orcas (mlb)

the stadium could be in beaverton or Hillsboro sherwood maybe even a complex that houses the football, soccer, tennis, rugby and baseball/softball stadiums! 

we could have tourniments in all of them!


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## SolidGuy3 (Apr 23, 2005)

SheedSoNasty said:


> Like if we say "cows" is should also be "sheeps"?
> 
> http://www.readinga-z.com/newfiles/levels/lesson_plans/q/salmon/salmon_print.html
> 
> ...


John Salmons


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## SheedSoNasty (Dec 31, 2002)

SolidGuy3 said:


> John Salmons


John Salmons = Name of a person

Salmon = Type of fish

Nice try, though.


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## SolidGuy3 (Apr 23, 2005)

Leaping Salmons, their a pro kickball team from Milwaukee. Sounds like a cool sport. I would rock at kickball.

http://www.musakickball.com/Standings/Fall 2004/Wed BevHills_Fall '04.htm


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## SheedSoNasty (Dec 31, 2002)

SolidGuy3 said:


> Leaping Salmons, their a pro kickball team from Milwaukee. Sounds like a cool sport. I would rock at kickball.
> 
> http://www.musakickball.com/Standings/Fall 2004/Wed BevHills_Fall '04.htm


Pro kickball huh, now that's something I haven't heard of.


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## Utherhimo (Feb 20, 2005)

must be a wisconsin thing 

i hate the freeway in milwaukee 

How about the Portland Brewmiesters!


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