# Ben Gordon: A star in the making



## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

We are witnessing the transformation of a good player into a star. Ben is in a groove. He is hitting shot after shot and is scoring with ease. Thats the first step in being a star. Now, lets see what he does the next year or two and see if the assists, rebounds improve. 

I was for including Ben in a package for PP. As time goes by, I am beginning to wonder if that is such a good idea. Sure, PP gives us height and rebounding. But Ben is scoring. Ben is much younger. 

I am having doubts about trading him.


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

he's starting the LOOK like that 25PPG scorer that pax is talking about...

23PPG since being in his starting role, over 30PPG in the last 4 games....

I don't think I'd trade him now...


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## TRUTHHURTS (Mar 1, 2003)

This only increases his value and I would still look to deal him if the price is right .


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

truebluefan said:


> We are witnessing the transformation of a good player into a star. Ben is in a groove. He is hitting shot after shot and is scoring with ease. Thats the first step in being a star. Now, lets see what he does the next year or two and see if the assists, rebounds improve.
> 
> I was for including Ben in a package for PP. As time goes by, I am beginning to wonder if that is such a good idea. Sure, PP gives us height and rebounding. But Ben is scoring. Ben is much younger.
> 
> I am having doubts about trading him.


I would feel the same way if I didn't see Ben slipping and falling down 3-4 times per game. Maybe he wears a new pair of shoes each game, I don't know. His shot selection is much better, he has been grabbing some rebounds, and he has made good improvement defensively.

Right now I would still deal Ben for Pierce, but I don't want that to happen until the offseason. This will also give us more time to gauge Ben in a starting role. Right now he is playing very effectively outside of some foolish turnovers.

Ben, Sweets, and the Bulls first might be enough to nab him, and would be a great use of C. Space without having to take on bad contracts in return.


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## McBulls (Apr 28, 2005)

Each of the 2004 draftees has had a nice run this season at one time or another. This seems to be Ben Gordon's time. Here's hoping he keeps it up. The team would be at another level altogether if Gordon, Duhon and Deng could consistently perform at the high level each has shown he can.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

truebluefan said:


> We are witnessing the transformation of a good player into a star. Ben is in a groove. He is hitting shot after shot and is scoring with ease. Thats the first step in being a star. Now, lets see what he does the next year or two and see if the assists, rebounds improve.
> 
> I was for including Ben in a package for PP. As time goes by, I am beginning to wonder if that is such a good idea. Sure, PP gives us height and rebounding. But Ben is scoring. Ben is much younger.
> 
> I am having doubts about trading him.


Funny, I was thinking the same thing last night as I watched the Utah game. Just like Brand has rounded into true star with time, the same thing is going to happen with both Deng and Gordon. The Bulls should be extremely slow to move either of them. Their names will be up in lights the way Brands is now.


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## SecretAgentGuy (Jul 15, 2003)

Place me firmly in the "Say No to Pierce" camp. Looking at the stats of similar players like Rose, Finley, Stackhouse and even Glen Rice and you notice a declining trend once they hit 30. I don't know how many good years Pierce has left in the tank but history tells us it's not many. Three years down the road we'll all be regretting a Pierce for Gordon swap. 

Realistically speaking, Gordon is probably the best young SG we're going to find.


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## Showtyme (Jun 24, 2002)

Ben Gordon is the MASTER.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

Showtyme said:


> Ben Gordon is the MASTER.


Well said sir, well said indeed. 

But seriously lets hope we dont jinx him by giving him all this love right now. Ben Gordon showed it last year and hes showing it again now thats hes starting, hes showing that he can a Star in this league and if he improves on his PG skills I think we are talking about an allstar PG in a year or so. I dont know to many uber young PG's in the east right now.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

I think Ben Gordon has played well of late but I'm not ready to annoint him the next AI. He has an awful lot of obstacles to overcome being a sg at his heigth and he hasn't shown the ability to be a pg yet really. And even though he played well in recent games we haven't been winning so...


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

ace20004u said:


> I think Ben Gordon has played well of late but I'm not ready to annoint him the next AI. He has an awful lot of obstacles to overcome being a sg at his heigth and he hasn't shown the ability to be a pg yet really. And even though he played well in recent games we haven't been winning so...


 Yeah but Ben Gordon is also the reason we arent getting blown out of games by 30 right now also. I dont even want to think what the Phoenix final score would have been without Ben Gordon. Eww.


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## ndistops (Oct 31, 2005)

As long as Ben is pouring in 23 PPG, I'm more than willing to wait for his passing and defensive skills to round into shape. He's going to be an incredible player one of these days, quite possibly sooner rather than later.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

thebizkit69u said:


> Yeah but Ben Gordon is also the reason we arent getting blown out of games by 30 right now also. I dont even want to think what the Phoenix final score would have been without Ben Gordon. Eww.



possibly. I mean Gordon does have a significant disadvantage defending most nights. We had to play Hinrich on AK-47 because of our height challenged team! You have to imagine that if BG isn't on this team someone is taking his place, would we perhaps have been closer if we had PP or Gerald Wallace playing instead of Ben? Who knows?


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## Frankensteiner (Dec 29, 2004)

It's just looking like the Bulls won't get value for that #3 pick.


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## lgtwins (May 18, 2004)

Frankensteiner said:


> It's just looking like the Bulls won't get value for that #3 pick.


You didn't just go there again, did you? :biggrin: 

I am sure you will hear earfull from you-know-who.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

Gordon sure did score a lot of points in those last two losses.

Its nice to see him start hitting some shots. Next step is the better decision making, rebounding and generating turnovers.


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## SausageKingofChicago (Feb 14, 2005)

Yeah ..I'm in no hurry to get rid of Ben and no I wouldn't include him as a principal in a Paul Pierce trade 

Ben's got a longer window when our team ( supposedly and hopefully ) may have a window

Right now he's the only thing we got resembling a big time player ( at least in the making ) and to lesser degree Luol Deng ( notwithstanding yesterday's screw up and a bit of a flatliner he's been on in general lately )


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

..... moved


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

ace20004u said:


> possibly. I mean Gordon does have a significant disadvantage defending most nights. We had to play Hinrich on AK-47 because of our height challenged team! You have to imagine that if BG isn't on this team someone is taking his place, would we perhaps have been closer if we had PP or Gerald Wallace playing instead of Ben? Who knows?


We have taller players that could have been in the game to guard AK-47. You're talking about the coach's decision really.


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## SausageKingofChicago (Feb 14, 2005)

DaBullz said:


> We have taller players that could have been in the game to guard AK-47. You're talking about the coach's decision really.


Or maybe instead of Kirk defending Ivan Drago lite ..and as I've oft opined on this issue ..if its Kirk or Ben in Horace and Oak redeux ...sadly , for me , it would be a case of :

Kirk..its time to leave the house


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## SausageKingofChicago (Feb 14, 2005)

For the record ..

I don't think it will get to that 

There is room for Kirk , Ben , Chris , + one of Rodney Carney/Rudy Gay/Shawne Williams/Ronnie Brewer with what will ultimately be a #10 to #12 pick 

I offered a thread the other day "now or never" basically saying that we had to pull out at least 3 wins on this road trip of 7 , split 1 or 2 at home ( Philly and Sacto ) before the allstar break....and then play 0.600 ball ( 18 of 30 down the stretch ) to be assured of a playoff spot 

From here on in we are going to pull 1 out out of our remaining 3 on the road if we're lucky and maybe 1 of 2 at home which puts us at 22 wins before the allstar break 

I don't see us pulling out 0.600 down the stretch 

We'll wind up with around a 36 win record good for around the 12th pick ( with our own pick )

And it will likely be Shawne Williams at that pick - who is a bit of a project but we can afford to be patient 

I'm really warming to Rodney Carney however as I think he maybe the best defender out of that group and the best athlete but Shawne Williams has ( IMO ) the biggest star potential 

Who knows ?

Maybe its Carney at #5 with the Knicks pick

And we deal our pick if its in a 12 to 14 range to the Nuggets with Sweets for Nene 

There is a plethora of swing type guard scorers /shooters at this level which addresses a need for the Nuggets 

I'm in favour of dealing our pick for the rights to Nene but not Gooden as I don't think we have to for Gooden ..but I can't see Nene having a huge market because of question marks and the best I see for him is around the MLE mark..so I think he's well the risk for the upside at that price and if you control his rights you are in a good position 

The point is Gooden is a lesser risk and you could be comfortable that it would be unlikely that the Cavs will match an offer starting at $7M- $7.5M and up given their salary structure no matter how much money the owner has ..look at how the freewheeling Mark Cuban and Paul Allen have been brought back into line with the carrot and stick of luxury tax financial rationalism 

I bet London to a brick that the Cavs don't match Drew at this level and the only ones who can offer and pay at this level are us 

So if we walked out of the draft and free agency with Drew Gooden , Nene , AD ,Rodney Carney and Jiri Welsch I would be more than satisfied 

And with these additions added to what we got I don't think we need to trade anybody..at least not for awhile ..perhaps down the track in consolidation / better fit / equal talent for equal talent swaps


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## bre9 (Jan 8, 2006)

Ben Gordon is a nba star in the making. 74 points in the last 2 games and 12 three's.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

kukoc4ever said:


> Gordon sure did score a lot of points in those last two losses.
> 
> Its nice to see him start hitting some shots. Next step is the better decision making, rebounding and generating turnovers.


I agree.


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## darlets (Jul 31, 2002)

Heaven forbid we give a guy a few years to develop into a star. 

Him rounding out his rebounding, defense and passing will only help in this. Rebounds and steals from guards generally end up in transistion points.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

Here is the real test, If Ron Artest guards Ben Gordon next game and Gordon still comes out with a 30 point game then there will be no doubt that hes going to average 25ppg in the second half of the season and well on his way to becoming a star. Hes allready probably the most dangerous shooter from outside, hes so scary I am gladd hes not playing against us.


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## nanokooshball (Jan 22, 2005)

thebizkit69u said:


> Here is the real test, If Ron Artest guards Ben Gordon next game and Gordon still comes out with a 30 point game then there will be no doubt that hes going to average 25ppg in the second half of the season and well on his way to becoming a star. Hes allready probably the most dangerous shooter from outside, hes so scary I am gladd hes not playing against us.


honestly, if anyone could score 30pts on artest then that guy would be scary

I doubt artest would let him though, if he was guarding him


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## Showtyme (Jun 24, 2002)

But Gordon is getting open looks as a result of great ball movement by our team. No matter how good a defender Ron Artest is, he won't be able to move 10 feet from his help on a penetrating Duhon or Hinrich to jump out on a quick-release Ben Gordon three.

I agree that Gordon won't have as many penetration opportunities but I think his game begins with the jumper anyway, so we'll see how it goes. I think Kevin Martin might be guarding him a lot of the time too, since Artest should naturally match up on Deng/Noch.

In any event. BG is becoming one of those guys that hits the big J. I think that we get very tentative looking in the 4th quarter, especially when blowing leads... as if they don't know how to execute their plays anymore. I saw Hinrich give it up a few too many times and try to be a pure point guard. It resulted in 11 assists, sure, but gosh... sometimes he really did beat his guy to the hoop, got underneath and just squirted the ball out to an open Nocioni who promptly took a power dribble and tossed up a lower-percentage shot.

In the midst of all this tentativeness, Gordon is a guy that is fearless. You could see it in his face when he made that big three in the 4th quarter, he turned and was smiling... because he knew that he could hit those shots and he was actually hitting them. When the Nugz made a run at it, BG just stepped up and kept pace with them. That's how we won many of our games last season, and that's what we really need on this team.

The team, working like clockwork, can get the 20-point lead; Gordon is who we need when we've blown that lead to almost nothing with 3 minutes left in the 4th.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

Another fantastic game for Gordon. Except tonight he did more than just score 30 pts, he made some really great passes and almost made me fall out my chair with some of his defense. I don't expect this kind of game EVERY night, but it's a glimpse of what he's capable of.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

Showtyme said:


> But Gordon is getting open looks as a result of great ball movement by our team. No matter how good a defender Ron Artest is, he won't be able to move 10 feet from his help on a penetrating Duhon or Hinrich to jump out on a quick-release Ben Gordon three.
> 
> I agree that Gordon won't have as many penetration opportunities but I think his game begins with the jumper anyway, so we'll see how it goes. I think Kevin Martin might be guarding him a lot of the time too, since Artest should naturally match up on Deng/Noch.
> 
> ...


 Did you watch ESPN 2 interview Ben after the game? This guy is a freak , he was running up and down with a great running team and yet he WAS NOT SWEATING OR EVEN HUFFING. Even the guy who did the interview was like how the heck arent you sweating or huffing?! 
You would think that after scoring 30 points in 3 straight games Ben would kinda slow down or show some wear, but man what a motor on that kid.


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## ndistops (Oct 31, 2005)

yodurk said:


> Another fantastic game for Gordon. Except tonight he did more than just score 30 pts, he made some really great passes and almost made me fall out my chair with some of his defense. I don't expect this kind of game EVERY night, but it's a glimpse of what he's capable of.


And nobody mentioned it either. The man can pass the ball as well as most in the league but all anyone is focusing on is his shooting.

Sound familiar?


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

He really SHOULD be deemed UNTRADEABLE now...


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

ndistops said:


> And nobody mentioned it either. The man can pass the ball as well as most in the league but all anyone is focusing on is his shooting.
> 
> Sound familiar?


no...

:whoknows:


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## nybullsfan (Aug 12, 2005)

remember andrew toney akak the boston strangler? well that is who ben gordon is reminding me of. andrew toney before his injuries was a great player despite having malone and erving on the team he consistently was a 17-20 ppg scorer. also toney was a known clutch play similar to what gordon is today just a thought


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## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

I'd still trade Gordon as the key piece to obtain Paul Pierce. 

He's had three great games and appears to finally have Skiles' confidence, so maybe this is the turning point for him. But I'm certainly not throwing an "untouchable" label on him yet.


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## T.Shock (Feb 11, 2003)

Gordon is looking nice and after really checking into, players like Pierce do tend to hit a decline when they hit their 30s which Pierce is closing in on. Gordon is a special player, without a doubt. Some will compare him to Toney (BG is a better pure shooter), AI (not as good on the defensive end), or any number of shorter pure scorers. He's unique. I especially like the floater down the line and his willingness to pass up a contested 3 for a drive down into the lane. Honestly, if we keep the core together, I don't see why in two years we wont have a similar team to the Phily team that made the finals...


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## SALO (Jun 6, 2002)

thebizkit69u said:


> Did you watch ESPN 2 interview Ben after the game? This guy is a freak , he was running up and down with a great running team and yet he WAS NOT SWEATING OR EVEN HUFFING. Even the guy who did the interview was like how the heck arent you sweating or huffing?!


Yeah that was funny. Ben answered, "I guess I just make it look easy." 

:clap:


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

Hes such a hard worker and nice kid that its borderline funny when he tries to play the I make it look easy card. I think hes reall modest kid and I hope he never grows a huge head and becomes a ME player. I love how he said in the interview that Chandler and Nocioni deserved the credit for the win. 

And if he does become a ME player lets hope hes more like Chad Johnson then Terrel Owens.


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## ndistops (Oct 31, 2005)

TomBoerwinkle#1 said:


> no...
> 
> :whoknows:


Well I was thinking of MJ, but whatever. :biggrin: 

Go Bulls and Go Ben!


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## SausageKingofChicago (Feb 14, 2005)

Ron Cey said:


> I'd still trade Gordon as the key piece to obtain Paul Pierce.
> 
> He's had three great games and appears to finally have Skiles' confidence, so maybe this is the turning point for him. But I'm certainly not throwing an "untouchable" label on him yet.


Pierce is a bullocking power guard /forward 

The piece is trade if we acquire him ( IMO ) is Luol Deng 


And Gordon's had more great games than that 

The guy is just ice..he's a killer 

He is the one guy on our team that consistently comes up with "it"

With some rounding out of our roster and other pieces ...this guy within another 1 - 2 seasons is going to be freakishly off the charts.


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## T.Shock (Feb 11, 2003)

SausageKingofChicago said:


> Pierce is a bullocking power guard /forward
> 
> The piece is trade if we acquire him ( IMO ) is Luol Deng
> 
> ...


Agreed. If I'm dealing anybody for Pierce it's some combination of Hinrich, Duhon, and Deng.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

And if these guys are currently available, why wait? Make the trade ASAP and get that 7-6 seed and try to make a run this year!

Hinrich,Gordon,PP,Gooden,Chandler

Yah, we lose some depth with Duhon, but I still that that team is better equiped to contend THIS SEASON more than the one we have now.

Pick up a backup PG with the MLE and use a draft pick on a young big for next season.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

I say we trade Duhon for Gooden, and then trade Tim THomas and OUR Draft Pick for Kenyon still.

PG-Kirk Hinrich/Jannero Pargo
SG-Ben Gordon/Eric Piatowski
SF-Luol Deng/Andres Nocioni
PF-Kenyon Martin/Drew Gooden
C- Tyson Chandler/Othella Harrington

Leaves us a little damp, but we'll be rough up front if Martin can stay healthy (I think he should be able to). Then go for Rudy Gay with our top 3 draft pick, and then hopefully Greg Oden in the pick swap the next year, I don't know how much capspace this would leave us, but I would rather have Kenyon Martin over any other free agent besides Big Ben.


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## mw2889 (Dec 15, 2005)

> Did you watch ESPN 2 interview Ben after the game? This guy is a freak , he was running up and down with a great running team and yet he WAS NOT SWEATING OR EVEN HUFFING. Even the guy who did the interview was like how the heck arent you sweating or huffing?!


He appears to be in GREAT shape.


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## Frankensteiner (Dec 29, 2004)

I especially like how Ben Gordon goes from being thrown into every trade proposal imaginable to nearly "untouchable" in the span of about a week. And now it's Luol Deng's turn as trade fodder. :cheers: 

In my mind, Gordon is still more tradable than either Deng or Hinrich, for a number of reasons (not that I would trade any of them). Complete players who play both ends of the court are the most valuable commodity in today's game. 24K Gold.

The idea of swapping Deng for Pierce is borderline awful. That trade weakens another spot on our defense; Pierce-for-Gordon at least resolves our size issues in the backcourt.


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## Machinehead (Jun 12, 2002)

For the record I am not in favor of trading either Deng to Gordon but i'd trade Deng ahead of Gordon ..Gordon is a proven game changer . Deng isn't and I don't think he ever will be 

A helluva nice piece to have and a nice 2 way player ( although I think he gets too much of a free pass on his defense at times which could tighten up some ) but he's not a game changer in the way that Gordon and even Tyson Chandler can be 

Yup..that's right Tyson has the capacity to have a direct influence on the outcome of games .

So does Gordon 

And we know Paul Pierce does if he has a decent cast around him 

That's 3 guys in your starting 5 that can be / are gamewinners - one on the defensive end and two on the offensive end 

As much as I rate Luol .. I would have no hesitation in shipping him ahead of Pierce 

BTW Frank ... you talk about PP solving our small backcourt...seems that is not proving to be manageable for one and something we can address via draft and free agency anyway with further pieces ( Carney/Brewer + Welsch ) and secondly ..psssst. Pierce , whilst a swing player , is more a forward than a shooting guard 

Pierce is a driver and a guy that just bollocks his way to the hole...

Ben is a money shooter 

Kirk is the guy that provides the yin and yang as the 3rd wing option


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

My feelings toward Ben Gordon are somewhat confusing, even to myself. I easily root for him to succeed on an individual level more than any Bull, because I believe he has the most star-like qualities of any of our Bulls right now, and I'd love it if we could develop a star. That being said, Ben remains a 6' 2" shooting guard, and that's not only tough on him, but it's tough on the team to compensate for. Hinrich and Duhon really get some nasty defensive assignments because of the fact that Skiles almost exclusively has Gordon guard the point guard. 

Ben's passing has improved substantially this year, but passing alone does not a point guard make. Last night was the second game in a row Gordon took a quick shot with healthy lead with the clock just under two minutes. Sure, I understand he might want the ball in his hands, and he might want to take the shot, but for God's sake Ben, dribble around for 20 seconds, then take the same shot. When he did that again last night, I threw the remote I was so pissed. 

If Ben were a legit 6' 4" or taller, I would be close to relegating him to untouchable status, but I still would consider trading him for the right player. As for Chad Ford's Boston trade from this morning, I think Boston would be getting too much.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

If the Bulls traded Deng for PP (in some form):

PG Hinrich Gordon
SG Gordon PP
SF PP Nocioni

Would be the rotation, and it'd be fine to play Gordon at PG with PP as point forward for 12 minutes a game.


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## remlover (Jan 22, 2004)

If Ainge is going to trade PP for less than a superstar/all-star he will want the farm. Multiple draft picks, Gordon, cap relief, expiring contracts for us to take on PP and LaFrentz. 

For all we know, Pax and Ainge have already spoke and what Ainge was asking was too much for Pax to part with. 

Gordon IMO is as close to untouchable as he can get. His passing is improving and his defense has improved by leaps and bounds. No longer can people call Gordon a carbon copy of Crawford.


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## dsouljah9 (Jul 9, 2002)

> If the Bulls traded Deng for PP (in some form):


I wouldn't trade Deng, unless Utah developed a brain fart and offered us AK47 for Deng and NY'S #1;Deng is coming off wrist surgery.Ben has been playing well as of late and I hope that he continues to do so. He needs to work on his handle though...


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

dsouljah9 said:


> I wouldn't trade Deng, unless Utah developed a brain fart and offered us AK47 for Deng and NY'S #1;Deng is coming off wrist surgery.Ben has been playing well as of late and I hope that he continues to do so. He needs to work on his handle though...



I agree. I would move Gordon before I moved Deng because Gordon is a short 2 guard and unless your name is AI your not a successful short 2 guard in the NBA which should tell us something. I do like Gordon and would be more than happy to hold onto him, especially if this team was more crafted towards him. But to get PP it's kind of a no brainer for me.


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