# Is It Worse Than You Thought It Would Be?



## luther (Nov 2, 2007)

Any realistic fan knew this year would be difficult, record-wise. But with 30 games gone, we are 4-26, which is four wins fewer than the next-worst teams. 

1. Is it worse than you expected it would be?
2. If everyone were basically healthy all season (no Foye injury, no Ratliff injury, fewer of the seemingly constant strings of other injuries), how much better could we be now?
3. Prediction time: what will our record be?



For me:
1. Yes.
2. I think we could have a doubled win total right now, maybe even slightly more.
3. At season's end, I believe we will have shown significant improvement. If Foye returns and the others stop missing so many one-off games, we can get a little consistency. We'll end up 15-67.


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

It is a lot worse than i thought, the play has been downright ugly pretty consistantly.

I definately think we would be a lot closer to 10 wins with Foye alone, we have gotten close to teams but have been unable to finish, once he gets his game legs under him again we will be a much improved team.

i think we'll make 20-62.... yuck


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## luther (Nov 2, 2007)

Avalanche said:


> i think we'll make 20-62.... yuck


You think we're going to go 16-36 the rest of the way? Wow, if we can win one of every three games from here on, it'll feel like a championship season.


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## Mr. Hobbes (Jul 1, 2005)

Can Ratliff still play ball? He hasn't been relevant for about a season and a half now.


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## luther (Nov 2, 2007)

Chan said:


> Can Ratliff still play ball? He hasn't been relevant for about a season and a half now.


He looked really energetic and valuable very early this season, but just underwent yet another knee surgery. I think it's safe to say he will never be anywhere near the player he once was, if he even decides to keep playing (elsewhere). His body just hasn't been kind to him.


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## JuX (Oct 11, 2005)

1. Yes.
2. More games than where we should be right now. We had some close games but we can't finish.
3. 15-67 is about right, but if bad lucks continue till to the end, as many wins as 10, 11, 12 at best for them.


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

Win total will largely fall on how well Foye can come back, teams will start to completely overlook the wolves and come into games un-prepared, injuries will affect other clubs aswell..

While we have played terribly we have also been rather unlucky... i think we will sqeak out a few more wins and at least get close to 20


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## Shaoxia (Dec 5, 2007)

It hasn't dawned on you that the Wolves are tanking the season?


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## luther (Nov 2, 2007)

Shaoxia said:


> It hasn't dawned on you that the Wolves are tanking the season?


Tanking in terms of playing younger guys and moving people who are more likely to win individual games without fitting into the long-term solution? Obviously: they've made moves that will hurt them in the short term in the hope that the young guys will develop into better answers (and that they'll get another nice pick or two along the way).

Tanking in terms of losing any individual game on purpose by not giving a legit effort? Obviously not. These players are trying; they're just not good enough (and sometimes lucky enough) to win very often. And by the way, anyone who tanks that way ought to be banned from the league.


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## JuX (Oct 11, 2005)

^ Also, if we have Mark Madsen to shoot from downtown about 7 times, then it is considered tanking.

Tanking is remotely happening from this team, IMO. I don't see them really giving up on themselves. Not yet. If they do, we would not be able to watch close games but resulting in losses, the players would care less about the game and their stats will drop significantly, and the coach will not care like he was going to say, "that's it" and sit down and quitting on the team.


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## mqtcelticsfan (Apr 2, 2006)

As a Celtic fan, this is no surprise. You're basically taking the awful Celtics team from last year, and replacing Pierce with Randy Foye and Corey Brewer.


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## HOWIE (Dec 30, 2002)

Chan said:


> Can Ratliff still play ball? He hasn't been relevant for about a season and a half now.


I think it depends on if it is a contract year or not, he has also been sidelined with something for most of the season. I'm suprised that he hasn't returned yet to prove that he is worth and extension yet.


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## luther (Nov 2, 2007)

HOWIE said:


> I think it depends on if it is a contract year or not, he has also been sidelined with something for most of the season. I'm suprised that he hasn't returned yet to prove that he is worth and extension yet.


He had a torn meniscus. It's not like he faked it and convinced a doctor to open him up and dig around in there just for show. It's interesting how fans think players ought to be super-heroes just because they're highly paid. People get hurt, especially when the very essence of their jobs is beating up their bodies.


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## HOWIE (Dec 30, 2002)

luther said:


> He had a torn meniscus. It's not like he faked it and convinced a doctor to open him up and dig around in there just for show. It's interesting how fans think players ought to be super-heroes just because they're highly paid. People get hurt, especially when the very essence of their jobs is beating up their bodies.


I have never said that Theo Ratiff is a superhero, he is highly paid because of his play during contract years, he has never really proven that he is worth the money after getting the contract signed. 

Teams sign him in hopes that he'll produce only to use him as trade filler later. I'd think that Minnesota would be better served to let his contract expire and use that cap space on a productive player.


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## luther (Nov 2, 2007)

HOWIE said:


> I'd think that Minnesota would be better served to let his contract expire and use that cap space on a productive player.


We are going to have little-to-no cap space when his contract expires. Assuming the Wolves don't re-sign any of their free agents (Gomes, Telfair, Green, Smith), they will have $3 million. Big whoop.


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## HOWIE (Dec 30, 2002)

luther said:


> We are going to have little-to-no cap space when his contract expires. Assuming the Wolves don't re-sign any of their free agents (Gomes, Telfair, Green, Smith), they will have $3 million. Big whoop.


Really, that is a lot of money coming off the books, Garnett's contract must have been huge.......but it is part of the rebuild process. I'd think that letting him walk is the best move for Minnesota, clearing up room for later down the road should be McHale's goal. It is going to suck for a few years, but you do have some young talent on that team, you'd be able to add as Ratliff, Walker, whoever else is holding you down expire.


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## luther (Nov 2, 2007)

HOWIE said:


> Really, that is a lot of money coming off the books, Garnett's contract must have been huge.......but it is part of the rebuild process. I'd think that letting him walk is the best move for Minnesota, clearing up room for later down the road should be McHale's goal. It is going to suck for a few years, but you do have some young talent on that team, you'd be able to add as Ratliff, Walker, whoever else is holding you down expire.


Garnett's, Wally's, and the cumulative values of Hudson's, Hassell's, Howard's, etc. We'll be around $53 million after this season before any moves regarding extensions, re-signing or newly signing anyone. The cap will probably fall around $56 million. 

While flexibility is nice, I still think cap space is overrated for the Wolves. I think our prime building has to be through the draft and trades, with free agents just filling in around the edges.


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## knicksfan89 (Jan 6, 2005)

and the knicks are in the same boat as yous folks


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## luther (Nov 2, 2007)

knicksfan89 said:


> and the knicks are in the same boat as yous folks


Only worse, cap-wise. But better, talent-wise. But worse, attitude-wise. So I don't know whose in a worse boat.


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

luther said:


> Garnett's, Wally's, and the cumulative values of Hudson's, Hassell's, Howard's, etc. We'll be around $53 million after this season before any moves regarding extensions, re-signing or newly signing anyone. The cap will probably fall around $56 million.
> 
> *While flexibility is nice, I still think cap space is overrated for the Wolves. I think our prime building has to be through the draft and trades, with free agents just filling in around the edges.*


Definately agree here, this isnt the place for the high profile FA's... we target to build through the draft primarily.....


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## The Solution (Jan 2, 2008)

In the end............yeah I knew it would be this bad.


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## JuX (Oct 11, 2005)

So we gotta face another losing season the reminder of this season and next. We can start putting in some goods after 2 years. Awfully a long way to go. Damn you, McHale for overpaying Wally, Hudson, Howard, and acquiring Jaric with his overpaid contract.


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## The Solution (Jan 2, 2008)

from what i did see in Jaric, he looks like he could be a leader for the wolves...more so then Walker:azdaja:


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

Neither are going to be a long term leader for the wolves.... Walker just doesnt have such a long contract unlike Jaric


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## The Solution (Jan 2, 2008)

True, also Jaric to me is a player that is off and on with me, sometimes he looks like a great hustle player (which are my favorite players.) While other times he's just a player that I would give away for ten dollers and a free ticket to a Spurs game.


on a side note:

You ever watch a Mavericks game? Or a Rockets Game? Or a Spurs Game? I remember watching the Mavs vs Spurs and there were hardly any people in attendance. The Texas State has it too good, they have been spoiled with the basketball teams...if I had two teams of that caliber playing, I would be there in a heart beat.


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## luther (Nov 2, 2007)

The Solution said:


> True, also Jaric to me is a player that is off and on with me, sometimes he looks like a great hustle player (which are my favorite players.) While other times he's just a player that I would give away for ten dollers and a free ticket to a Spurs game.



When Jaric is playing well, he's a legitimate NBA rotation player. I think NBA starter is almost always a stretch, unless he were on a team surrounded by really high level guys and was that "glue guy." When he plays well, though, he's an aggressive defender and penetrator, a guy who looks for scoring opportunities for his teammates and himself to the point of committing turnovers, but they're almost always the kind you can live with. He can hit outside shots, but when he's playing well doesn't fall in love with 3s exclusively. And that size and his arms can wreak some havoc in the passing lanes. When he's up, he's also spirited in a great way that permeates the team. That's why he's been so good at times for his national teams over the years.

Unfortunately, his confidence is obviously fragile. Both in LA and here, we've read interviews with him or his coaches time and time again when he questions his role, questions the team's interest in him, questions his game, etc. It almost seems like you have to commit to him as a major-minutes guy at least, or a starter, just to keep his confidence up. And then you have to take those bad games and still prop up that ego. I just don't think that's a good trait for a pro athlete to have...especially an NBA PG.

I hoped that when we acquired him as PG of the future with a big deal, he'd take that role and really step up and thrive. Instead, it seems it's burdened him more and he's been bad far more often than he's been good.


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

I dont think he is ever going to fit here, its rather pointless both ways... he wont be in our long term plans but we play him big minutes anyway.
If we dont play him he gets depressed and is stuck in a long contract.

We need to trade him, i still think he owuld be best suited playing next to an undersized 2 like Iverson/Arenas/Gordon etc, where he could play PG on offense but defend the bigger guards


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