# Merged: Suspensions announced



## Peja Vu (Jun 9, 2002)

*Suspensions announced*

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...41120/ap_on_sp_bk_ne/bkn_pacers_pistons_brawl


----------



## Peja Vu (Jun 9, 2002)

> The NBA suspended Ron Artest, Jermaine O'Neal and Stephen Jackson of Indiana and Ben Wallace of Detroit on Saturday for taking part in one of the ugliest brawls in U.S. sports history.
> 
> The suspensions were indefinite, and the league was still investigating Friday night's melee, which commissioner David Stern called "shocking, repulsive and inexcusable — a humiliation for everyone associated with the NBA."
> 
> The league issued a statement saying it was reviewing rules and security procedures "so that fans can continue to attend our games unthreatened by events such as the ones that occurred last night."


----------



## Kuskid (Aug 18, 2004)

Damn, you had me excited for a minute there. This isn't that big of news, pretty much everybody knew that these guys would get suspended, the question is for how long.


----------



## JoeD (Sep 2, 2004)

Indefinitely, great... I can understand them needing some time to think about the Pacers because assaulting fans is tricky, but what Ben did wasn't too far from normal, it sucks they are coming down harder because of reprecussions that werent his fault.


----------



## PC Load Letter (Jun 29, 2002)

Right, this isn't big news, but just the NBA making it show they're going to nip it in the bud until they're able to come up with what they think is the appropriate punishment. I'm guessing during next week, we'll find out an exact number of games all of them will be suspended.


----------



## Pan Mengtu (Jun 18, 2004)

Banned 4 LIFE!


----------



## jvanbusk (Jun 9, 2002)

I thought it was fairly comical the way it was John Saunders reporting this on ABC, seeing as how he stuck up for these thugs last night in the way he did.


----------



## MLKG (Aug 25, 2003)

Sounds like they don't know what they are doing yet.

It was obvious Artest, O'Neal, and Jackson were going to be suspended and Indiana plays tonight so they had to get this out there as quickly as possible. 

What I'm interested in will be the length.

In my mind, anything less than the season for Artest is unacceptable. It's cut and dry with him. 

O'Neal and Jackson have a little more grey area as they have an actual case of self defense (although not a very strong one).

Wallace's will be interesting because what he did in and of itself doesn't warrent any more than 4 games.


----------



## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jvanbusk</b>!
> I thought it was fairly comical the way it was John Saunders reporting this on ABC, seeing as how he stuck up for these thugs last night in the way he did.


<strike>The real thugs were the fans of Detroit. Some of them, at least.</strike> (YOU know better! Bashing a fan base is NOT allowed on this site.) :nonono:


----------



## jvanbusk (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>EHL</b>!
> 
> 
> The real thugs were the fans of Detroit. Some of them, at least.


I agree, there were thugs in the stands.

And on the court.


----------



## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Mike luvs KG</b>!
> In my mind, anything less than the season for Artest is unacceptable. It's cut and dry with him.


Thankfully you don't run the NBA.


----------



## JoeD (Sep 2, 2004)

As despicable as some of them were, aside from the one guy who threw a chair, nothing they did was close to the assault that occured. Artest going for the wrong guy and then Jermaine nailing that guy who is being helped up was ridiculous.


----------



## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jvanbusk</b>!
> 
> 
> I agree, there were thugs in the stands.
> ...


Meh. You dish out crap, you're going to get crap back. Fans decided to make it personal, they got exactly what they deserved.


----------



## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

Ben Wallace deserves nothing more than 4 games...


----------



## JT (Mar 1, 2004)

*biased.*



> In my mind, anything less than the season for Artest is unacceptable. It's cut and dry with him.


Damn, did Artest serve one of your family members? A cousin perhaps? Because obviously your mind is biased, and any thoughts spewing forth [from it] are unacceptable.


----------



## MJG (Jun 29, 2003)

I'd be worried if I were a fan of any of these guys -- Stern sounded more than a little pissed off about the whole thing.


----------



## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

Great news for Orlando.


----------



## jvanbusk (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>EHL</b>!
> 
> 
> Meh. You dish out crap, you're going to get crap back. Fans decided to make it personal, they got exactly what they deserved.


Yep, you deserve to be pummelled for standing with a drink in your hand watching what is going on.

You also deserve to be knocked out by a cheap shot while you are sitting on your knees.

Hey, we'll use a little logic from earlier from the Pacers fan: that was attempted murder by Jermaine O'Neal.


----------



## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jvanbusk</b>!
> 
> 
> Yep, you deserve to be pummelled for standing with a drink in your hand watching what is going on.
> ...


:yes: :laugh:


----------



## Idunkonyou (Feb 23, 2003)

I knew this was going to happen so it is great day to be a Magic fan if you know what I mean.


----------



## Tooeasy (Nov 4, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Mike luvs KG</b>!
> In my mind, anything less than the season for Artest is unacceptable. It's cut and dry with him.
> 
> 
> ...


giving a nice two handed thrust to a players throat warrants a 4 game or less suspension....
jumping into the stands and pushing a guy to the ground after getting smacked in the god damn face with a cup fulll of beer warrants a year ban from the game.







listening to dumbass detroit fans trying to justify what actually happened and making them look like the victims of this entire thing- priceless. you seriously have a terrible misconception of what can happen in the real world my friend.


----------



## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jvanbusk</b>!
> 
> 
> Yep, you deserve to be pummelled for standing with a drink in your hand watching what is going on.
> ...


Firstly, Artest didn't know it wasn't him apparently. Honest mistake, though a horrible mistake. Secondly, Jermaine had every right to knock the second guy out, you get on the hardwood and you're asking to be laid out. 

Fact; many Detroit fans were thugs last night, throwing popcorn, beer, chairs, and everything else they could get their hands on after being blown out of the building. Simply thugish.


----------



## JT (Mar 1, 2004)

*dont kill nobody!*



> Originally posted by <b>jvanbusk</b>!
> Hey, we'll use a little logic from earlier from the Pacers fan: that was attempted murder by Jermaine O'Neal.


Attempted murder? Jermaine was just trying to fix the guy's face for him.


----------



## JoeD (Sep 2, 2004)

Pistons were awful without Ben last time


----------



## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

Suspended indefinitely? Can they appeal and continue to play(tonight for example), or will the Pacers be without those players until further notice?


----------



## JoeD (Sep 2, 2004)

Taking a guess on who attacked you and who to attack and being wrong isn't what I call an honest mistake, unless your name is George Bush and you get special allowances.


----------



## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>EHL</b>!
> 
> Secondly, Jermaine had every right to knock the second guy out, you get on the hardwood and you're asking to be laid out.


I said it before and I'll say it again... That girl that chased Wally Szerbiack looking for a hug, surely should have had her clocked cleaned by KG... I mean what the hell, she doesn't belong on the court... She coulda seriously offended Wally's wife! If KG woulda broke her jaw, surely it would have been justified...


----------



## Wink (May 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>jvanbusk</b>!
> 
> You also deserve to be knocked out by a cheap shot while you are sitting on your knees.



Although I agree it was a cheap shot the guy had no business on the court. If the cheap shot had occured in the stands the guy might have a leg to stand on, but he went onto the court, and when someone decides to do that, I really lose a lot of sympothy for him. After some of the incidents that have happened in other sports with guys coming on the field of play(baseball for example) I can understand why players esspecially in that situation would swing first and think second.


----------



## LBJthefuturegoat (Nov 13, 2004)

http://www.nba.com/news/commissioner_statement_041120.html


----------



## Idunkonyou (Feb 23, 2003)

Artest, Jackson and O'Neal are gone until further notice, meaning they won't be playing tonight.


----------



## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>EHL</b>!
> 
> 
> Firstly, Artest didn't know it wasn't him apparently. Honest mistake, though a horrible mistake. Secondly, Jermaine had every right to knock the second guy out, you get on the hardwood and you're asking to be laid out.
> ...


You are off base here. First of all, if you aren't 100% sure you are going after the right person, why the hell would you be?

Second, that dude that Oneal knocked out *was not threatening* anybody. Just because he was on the court, for whatever reason, does not give Oneal the right to run in and blast him. 

Obviously there are a lot of Pistons fans that were dispicable, but most of this would not have happened had Artest not gone into the crowd and let security do their job on the guy who threw the drink. It is their job to enforce the law, not Artests'.


----------



## LBJthefuturegoat (Nov 13, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Idunkonyou</b>!
> Artest, Jackson and O'Neal are gone until further notice, meaning they won't be playing tonight.


and Ben Wallace


----------



## JoeD (Sep 2, 2004)

The guy JO punched may of been a jackass, but regardless of the situation that was a cheap and dangerous shot by JO.


----------



## LBJthefuturegoat (Nov 13, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>JNice</b>!
> It is their job to enforce the law, not Artests'.


So Artest is above the law?? He has to be enforced too man. Securitys job is to control EVERYONE not just the fans.


----------



## Xericx (Oct 29, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>JNice</b>!
> 
> 
> You are off base here. First of all, if you aren't 100% sure you are going after the right person, why the hell would you be?
> ...


Actually, if a fan is on the court, during a fight, its presumably to engage in the fight. WHY WAS HE THERE? To save his friend? Nope. 

He was there to participate in the fight and his presence on the court confirms this.


----------



## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>LBJthefuturegoat</b>!
> 
> 
> So Artest is above the law?? He has to be enforced too man. Securitys job is to control EVERYONE not just the fans.


I think you misread.


----------



## rock747 (Aug 3, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>S-Star</b>!
> 
> 
> I said it before and I'll say it again... That girl that chased Wally Szerbiack looking for a hug, surely should have had her clocked cleaned by KG... I mean what the hell, she doesn't belong on the court... She coulda seriously offended Wally's wife! If KG woulda broke her jaw, surely it would have been justified...


 

If that lady was a guy and she was trying to hurt Wally I'm sure it would be justifiable for him to take a punch.

Also, that guy was yelling **** at ron artest, so he figured he was the one who did it and that guy yelled **** at artest while artest was running toward him.


----------



## Idunkonyou (Feb 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>LBJthefuturegoat</b>!
> 
> 
> and Ben Wallace


The Magic aren't playing the Pistons tonight so I could care less.


----------



## The_Franchise (Mar 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>JNice</b>!
> Second, that dude that Oneal knocked out *was not threatening* anybody. Just because he was on the court, for whatever reason, does not give Oneal the right to run in and blast him.


He yelled at obscenities while charging at Artest, then halted and looked stunned when he realized he was about to get pummeled by Artest.

Not 100% sure though.


----------



## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

Yeah next time I'm in a crowded area, and someone throws something at me. I'm just going to punch everyone in sight... I mean, I'm bound to get the right guy eventually right? Then I'll say well geez officer, some guy through a cup at me, and you know sure I didn't attack the right guy, and yeah I punched random people, but you have to understand I was fearing for my safety! I mean, someone threw a cup at me! Who knows what's next? The best course of action is to start swinging at everyone in sight, surely ensured my safety and kept me from recieving anymore harm...


----------



## LBJthefuturegoat (Nov 13, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>JNice</b>!
> 
> 
> I think you misread.


I didn't mis read you make it seem like securitys job wasn't to keep Artest from the stands just like it was to keep the fans from the court.


----------



## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

Damn, Artest, Jackson and O'Neal are going to be suspended for a while. That just stinks because they are Indiana's three best players. Since the Pacers also have Scot Pollard, Jonathan Bender and Reggie Miller out, they will REALLY suck for about two weeks.

What the hell is their starting lineup going to be? I don't know what Pollard's injury is, but he's still on the active roster so I'll assume that he'll be able to play in their next game.

If I were Indiana, I'd go with...

C: Scot Pollard...David Harrison
PF: Jeff Foster...John Edwards
SF: Austin Croshere...James Jones
SG: Fred Jones
PG: Jamaal Tinsley...Eddie Gill

Yikes, they are really thin. Luckily, their next four games are at home. However, they play Orlando and Minnesota in two of those games. It should be very interesting to see how this all unfolds.


----------



## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Xericx</b>!
> 
> 
> Actually, if a fan is on the court, during a fight, its presumably to engage in the fight. WHY WAS HE THERE? To save his friend? Nope.
> ...


That is a rather large assumption. Do you really think he was threatening anyone? Honestly? Gimme a break. No I don't have sympathy for the guy, but still, the shot Oneal took was wrong. Point blank. The way he took that shot, if he hadn't started slipping when he threw it he could have killed that dude.


----------



## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mike luvs KG</b>!
> Sounds like they don't know what they are doing yet.
> 
> It was obvious Artest, O'Neal, and Jackson were going to be suspended and Indiana plays tonight so they had to get this out there as quickly as possible.
> ...


i actually think that artest in a way can claim self defense, as for oneal and jackson they went after defenseless people. i do agree artest will get more because of his checkered past. the more i think about this whole mess i wouldtn have a problem with these 3 pacers getting the rest of the season off.


----------



## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Ming Bling</b>!
> 
> 
> He yelled at obscenities while charging at Artest, then halted and looked stunned when he realized he was about to get pummeled by Artest.
> ...


No, that was the first fat dude. I think Artest was 100% justified in clocking that guy. He came at Artest in a threatening manner. But not the guy that Oneal clocked.


----------



## Coatesvillain (Jul 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>jvanbusk</b>!
> I thought it was fairly comical the way it was John Saunders reporting this on ABC, seeing as how he stuck up for these thugs last night in the way he did.


My brother made a great point, Saunders had a reason to be upset at fans, years ago he was interviewing someone in Detroit around the time of the Stanley Cup, and a Detroit fan hit him in the face with a cup of beer. So when he sees something else like this happens, it upset him.


----------



## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>LBJthefuturegoat</b>!
> 
> 
> I didn't mis read you make it seem like securitys job wasn't to keep Artest from the stands just like it was to keep the fans from the court.


Of course it is. But you can't really blame security. This is basically something that has never happened before and beyond the scope of what anyone would have been prepared for. Plus, it takes 3 NBA-sized Pacers to hold Artest back. Some security guard isn't going to stand a chance.


----------



## LBJthefuturegoat (Nov 13, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>JNice</b>!
> 
> 
> That is a rather large assumption. Do you really think he was threatening anyone? Honestly? Gimme a break. No I don't have sympathy for the guy, but still, the shot Oneal took was wrong. Point blank. The way he took that shot, if he hadn't started slipping when he threw it he could have killed that dude.


Come on man the dude ran up on Artest like he was going to bam. Then when he realize no one was going to hold him back he got scared and locked up then Artest hit him. But yeah Oneal had a cheap shot but the dude shouldn't have been coming on the court. I blame it on the guy not Oneal or Artest for the stuff on the court.


----------



## jvanbusk (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Ming Bling</b>!
> 
> 
> He yelled at obscenities while charging at Artest, then halted and looked stunned when he realized he was about to get pummeled by Artest.
> ...


I have yet to see any visual or audio proof that would back up these claims.


----------



## JoeD (Sep 2, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Xericx</b>!
> 
> 
> Actually, if a fan is on the court, during a fight, its presumably to engage in the fight. WHY WAS HE THERE? To save his friend? Nope.
> ...


Yeah he was on the floor and almost certainly came looking for a fight.

But he was on his knees, dazed, and being held by a bunch of people.


----------



## Tooeasy (Nov 4, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>LBJthefuturegoat</b>!
> 
> 
> So Artest is above the law?? He has to be enforced too man. Securitys job is to control EVERYONE not just the fans.


i think you misunderstood what he said.
anyways, i dont know what else can really be said about this, but theres seriously only a certain amount of composure that someone can have during a situation like this, and artest did his damnest in my book to diffuse the situation. it wasnt until after he got smacked in the damn face with a cup of beer(while laying on the scorers table for god sakes) that he flipped his wig. and you know what? if you honestly put yourself in that same situation, and were already ****in throat checked by wallace 2 minutes prior, i GUARENTEE that damn near everyone wouldve reacted in the same manner or somewhat similar. believe or not, artest is a human being, and for him to be degraded like he was prior to that whole thing with the punch/cup/**** talking incident, im in no way surprised that he lashed out in that manner.


----------



## JoeD (Sep 2, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>jvanbusk</b>!
> 
> 
> I have yet to see any visual or audio proof that would back up these claims.


That is because there is none, all the people saying it must be desperate to build their case.


----------



## BubblesinanIV (Sep 22, 2004)

*Thanks Detroit*

Thank you Detroit faithful for giving us no NBA Season next year.  
If you think the players association will do nothing if the 3 Pacers are suspended long term, well your pretty naive.


----------



## Xericx (Oct 29, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>JoeD</b>!
> 
> 
> Yeah he was on the floor and almost certainly came looking for a fight.
> ...


He was probably short of breath from running onto the court! :laugh:


----------



## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jvanbusk</b>!
> 
> 
> I have yet to see any visual or audio proof that would back up these claims.


O come on now, a guy gets near someone and starts yelling at them, I highly doubt he's yelling "NICE GAME ARTEST! I REALLY LIKE YOUR HAIR!"


----------



## LBJthefuturegoat (Nov 13, 2004)

*Re: Thanks Detroit*



> Originally posted by <b>BubblesinanIV</b>!
> Thank you Detroit faithful for giving us no NBA Season next year.
> If you think the players association will do nothing if the 3 Pacers are suspended long term, well your pretty naive.


Yep, it was as much the nbas fault as it was the players. At least thats what the players will argue.


----------



## Xericx (Oct 29, 2004)

*Re: Thanks Detroit*



> Originally posted by <b>BubblesinanIV</b>!
> Thank you Detroit faithful for giving us no NBA Season next year.
> If you think the players association will do nothing if the 3 Pacers are suspended long term, well your pretty naive.


Yes. Can you say "strike"?


----------



## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

i've said this before people, you dont go into the stands, unless a teammate is dragged in there its offlimits, be a bigger man and take the high road.


----------



## jvanbusk (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>PhillyPhanatic</b>!
> 
> 
> My brother made a great point, Saunders had a reason to be upset at fans, years ago he was interviewing someone in Detroit around the time of the Stanley Cup, and a Detroit fan hit him in the face with a cup of beer. So when he sees something else like this happens, it upset him.


I feel bad for John, really I do. But he should be a professional. To go on national television and act the way he did was in my opinion not acting like a proffesional. Last night I was almost equally appalled by his comments than of that of the actual fight.

He's no better than Jimmy Kimmel, and owes the city of Detroit an apology.

I'm sure you like it when people make their generalizations about Philly and their fanbases.


----------



## The_Franchise (Mar 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>JNice</b>!
> No, that was the first fat dude. I think Artest was 100% justified in clocking that guy. He came at Artest in a threatening manner.
> But not the guy that Oneal clocked.


The guy Artest threw punches at on the court, right? That's who I'm talking about, but like I said I'm not 100% sure...


----------



## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>PhillyPhanatic</b>!
> 
> 
> My brother made a great point, Saunders had a reason to be upset at fans, years ago he was interviewing someone in Detroit around the time of the Stanley Cup, and a Detroit fan hit him in the face with a cup of beer. So when he sees something else like this happens, it upset him.


:yes: 

He mentioned that in the closing seconds of NBA Shootaround last night.


----------



## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>JNice</b>!
> 
> 
> No, that was the first fat dude. I think Artest was 100% justified in clocking that guy. He came at Artest in a threatening manner. But not the guy that Oneal clocked.


I agree with you there. However, it's tough for me to say that because I love to watch the clip of O'Neal hitting that guy SO MUCH. That was the greatest hit in a sports brawl ever.

That fat guy got OWNED!:yes:


----------



## The_Franchise (Mar 30, 2003)

Jermaine O'Neal's sliding punch, though picturesque, is totally unjustifiable. Big suspension for that, but the fan he clocked was the one who yelled obscenities at Artest.


----------



## ToddMacCulloch11 (May 31, 2003)

http://www.benmaller.com/archives/2004/november/20-tayshaun_stays_on_bench_during_fight.html



> The Piston and Pacer benches emptied quickly. Detroit's Tayshaun Prince was the only player from both teams that remained on the bench. Leaving the bench in a fight brings an automatic one-game suspension.
> 
> That means Chauncey Billups, Derrick Coleman, Elden Campbell, Darvin Ham and Antonio McDyess, all of whom left the bench, could get a one-game suspension.


----------



## sweet_constipation (Jul 3, 2004)

Damn the tele-tubbies that decided to walk onto the court and in the DIRECT path of Artest. Not only that, but the first tele-tubbie decides it's a good idea to hop-skip so he's able to get in Artest's way a bit quicker. He's lucky because tele-tubbie #2 decides to tackle Artest. A couple seconds later and you have JO sliding in with a right that directly lands. Lucky for tele-tubbie #2 that he was slipping and couldn't put all his force into it.
These tele-tubbies couldn't avoided all this if they wanted to...EASY.


They were NOT innocent like the geek in the stands and the lady that was on the ground.


----------



## Xericx (Oct 29, 2004)

Who's that guy in Mortal Kombat I who did that?

Johnny something...the sliding punch. 

:laugh:


----------



## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Xericx</b>!
> Who's that guy in Mortal Kombat I who did that?
> 
> Johnny something...the sliding punch.
> ...


Johnny Cage?  I remember that name for some reason.


----------



## BubblesinanIV (Sep 22, 2004)

*Yea*

Yea it's Johnny Cage, with the glasses.


----------



## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

The Pistons,<strike> the city and it's fans </strike>( you are indicting an entire city and fan base? Not acceptable.trm) are getting exactly what they deserve for their Hooligan behavior. 

You don't throw stuff, a fight doesn't happen. Just remember that. You don't throw stuff and a fight doesn't happen. 

Then you throw at Ron Artest? I mean you must be an idiot and the fact that Stephen Jackson got the right guy that threw it at Artest, was justice in my mind. Any punishment laid out against the Pistons and their Hooligans is fine with me.

You want to suspend the players, F Detroit in the process too. It's only fair.


----------



## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> The Pistons, the city and it's fans are getting exactly what they deserve for their Hooligan behavior.
> 
> You don't throw stuff, a fight doesn't happen. Just remember that. You don't throw stuff and a fight doesn't happen.
> ...


And why do all Pistons fans get lumped together because of the actions of a couple dozen stupid losers? That is just stupid. And now you want to punish the whole city? Come on, be realistic.


----------



## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Ming Bling</b>!
> Jermaine O'Neal's sliding punch, though picturesque, is totally unjustifiable. Big suspension for that, but the fan he clocked was the one who yelled obscenities at Artest.


The reason that dude got punched, is because Chuck Person had just been pulled back from tackling him, after they both tackled Artest. See when you confonted Artest, which is what they did, they lost all rights not to get punched.

See when you step into a fight, there are no sucker punches. You could get punched from any direction.

I bet those idiots won't get on the court again. Not to mention, it was a riot and everyone's tempers were high. Why would you go on the court? Do you expect to not get punched in the eye? If so, you're an idiot.


----------



## MLKG (Aug 25, 2003)

Do people really thing year long suspensions are off base?

Attackins a fan is the ULTIMATE mortal sin in professional sports. It's the biggest no-no, the most well defined line. You NEVER EVER cross it. Without the fans, the league is nothing.

Sprewell got an entire season for attacking his coach, you don't think Indiana players are going to get the same for attacking FANS? 

I don't think some people truly realize how BIG this is. This is the biggest fight in the history of the NBA.

If anyone thinks these guys are going to get off light they are in for a HUGE surprise.

Given his history, it would not drop my jaw to learn Artest gets a life time ban.

You are out of your mind if you think Stern is going to go easy to appease the players union.

I saw legal annalysts on CNN demanding Artest and Jackson be arrested immediately, saying that at least 7 assaults occured in the stands and the self defense claim is ridiculous.

Come on, you guys know David Stern, there is NO WAY he lets these guys off easy.


----------



## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>JNice</b>!
> 
> 
> And why do all Pistons fans get lumped together because of the actions of a couple dozen stupid losers? That is just stupid. And now you want to punish the whole city? Come on, be realistic.


Yes. If you suspend the players, that's fine. All I'm saying is Detroit should have a lot of their priviledges pulled away. 

No more autograph sessions from opposing teams before games. That's a start. Due to idiots trying to be Macho Men.


----------



## Pan Mengtu (Jun 18, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>JNice</b>!
> 
> 
> No, that was the first fat dude. I think Artest was 100% justified in clocking that guy. He came at Artest in a threatening manner. But not the guy that Oneal clocked.


Exactly. That was the 1 hit that was legitimate defense, because the guy was being threatening. But Jermaine hitting his friend was a complete cheap shot.


----------



## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mike luvs KG</b>!
> Do people really thing year long suspensions are off base?
> 
> Attackins a fan is the ULTIMATE mortal sin in professional sports. It's the biggest no-no, the most well defined line. You NEVER EVER cross it. Without the fans, the league is nothing.
> ...


Lifetime ban will absolutely not happen. I would be completely surprised at a season long suspension as well. I think 20-30 games max.


----------



## jvanbusk (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> The Pistons, the city and it's fans are getting exactly what they deserve for their Hooligan behavior.
> 
> You don't throw stuff, a fight doesn't happen. Just remember that. You don't throw stuff and a fight doesn't happen.
> ...


Does this make you feel better about yourself?

Damn. How many times is this guy going to be allowed to continue to make these generalizations?


----------



## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Maybe you got punched, it would knock some sense into you.


----------



## Pan Mengtu (Jun 18, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> The Pistons, <strike>the city and it's fans</strike><font color=blue>(NOT acceptable!)</font> are getting exactly what they deserve for their Hooligan behavior.


Ahh, more bigotted statements from you. You have a history of when someone does something you dislike, you lash out at where they're from. Now Detroit, a large city, is "getting what it deserves" just as Puerto Ricans need to go away during the olympics, right?


----------



## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

Community Service Announcement

*Things are getting testy. Be careful what you say. Don't get yourselves suspended.*


----------



## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Pan Mengtu</b>!
> 
> 
> Ahh, more bigotted statements from you. You have a history of when someone does something you dislike, you lash out at where they're from. Now Detroit, a large city, is "getting what it deserves" just as Puerto Ricans need to go away during the olympics, right?


Nope, I said the PR trolls like you and PRJose needed to go away. Not Puerto Ricans themselves. I love Boriquas. 

I'm not going to excuse the Hooligans for their behavior. Maybe we should call the Pistons, the Detroit "Pooligans".


----------



## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

people there is enough blame to go around here, whether you want to side with the players or the fans lets not generalize that all fans or all players are the same. i think once it started you saw who were the good guys and who were the thugs. i have a lot more respect today for guys like rick mahorn, rasheed wallace and david harrison and some others who truly tried to break things up. jackson and oneal arent ever going to live this down and artest just showed he's certifiable and needs professional help.


----------



## Pan Mengtu (Jun 18, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> 
> 
> Nope, I said the PR trolls like you and PRJose needed to go away. Not Puerto Ricans themselves. I love Boriquas.
> ...


Nope, after Puerto Rico got eliminated you said that now hopefully all the puerto ricans will go away. I called you on it and you reinterated that we were all acting like asses. You didn't make any distinction.

Now you're doing the same thing here. You just said that the city of Detroit got what it deserve. That the detroit fans are hooligans. You are not distinguishing the ordinary fan from the handful who acted stupid last night.


----------



## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

After last night, I don't have to distinguish. Their actions speak for themselves.

The players are to blame, but the fans are too. I'm not letting them off the hook.


----------



## DaUnbreakableKinG (Jun 28, 2003)

It's all artests and wallaces fault. Artest doesn't make the foul, wallace doesn't push artest and nothing and I mean nothing happens. 

The fans will always throw s***. You gotta be proffesional and not get down to their level. 

Next, wallace should be suspended more than 10 games. (for starting the whole thing with artest)

Artest should be suspended for the whole season for going into the stands. There's no excuse for that. You were playing away in an arena where you are not liked. You should know better than going and sitting at the table while theres almost a fight going on. 

J'Oneal, and Jackson should get suspended about 20 games each for punching fans for no DAMN reason. The fans didn't attack artest. Artest attacked them like a bull. 

:twocents:


----------



## JoeD (Sep 2, 2004)

The detroit hate is retarded. Once that guy threw the first drink and the brawl started, this would of happened at any city.


----------



## sweet_constipation (Jul 3, 2004)

First of all, not fair to dump all Pistons fans into one group.

Second, the 2nd fat guy was the one that tackled Artest to the ground. He's involved himself at this point. The same way JO *involved* himself a couple seconds later.


----------



## JT (Mar 1, 2004)

*boring anyway*

I think this game proves 2 things:

- That the Detroit Pistons are not mentally ready to win another title.

*edited: Do not attack entire fanbases*


----------



## MLKG (Aug 25, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>rainman</b>!
> people there is enough blame to go around here, whether you want to side with the players or the fans lets not generalize that all fans or all players are the same. i think once it started you saw who were the good guys and who were the thugs. i have a lot more respect today for guys like rick mahorn, rasheed wallace and david harrison and some others who truly tried to break things up. jackson and oneal arent ever going to live this down and artest just showed he's certifiable and needs professional help.


Fred Jones was in there helping as well and actually took some vicious shots for it. I even saw the Palace Patrol (the dancers that go around hyping people up) out on the floor restraining people.


----------



## Pan Mengtu (Jun 18, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> After last night, I don't have to distinguish. Their actions speak for themselves.
> 
> The players are to blame, but the fans are too. I'm not letting them off the hook.


The vast majority of Detroit fans don't have to be "let off the hook" because being "let off the hook" requires that you did something wrong. Since the vast majority of Detroit citizens weren't even at the game, let alone rioting, your claim that you aren't going to "let them off the hook" is a complete spit in the face of people who live in Detroit.

If you think that this couldn't have happened at any arena in the NBA, you're simply out of touch with reality. You think there aren't drunk idiots at any given game? They are. And all it takes is one person doing something stupid to the right person, at the right time, to trigger something like this. Detroit is no different than any other place. They are no more hooligans than Seattle or Washington or Miami or wherever. But people like yourself aren't looking to understand the situation, you're looking to reiterate your biggoted opinions.


----------



## scapegoat (Feb 20, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> After last night, I don't have to distinguish. Their actions speak for themselves.
> 
> The players are to blame, but the fans are too. I'm not letting them off the hook.


Ron Artest goes into the stands at Staples Center or wherever you live and attacks fans. The fans react and throw beer and popcorn at the players on the Pacers. Can I start slurring Los Angeleans?


----------



## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

*Re: boring anyway*



> Originally posted by <b>sherako</b>!
> I think this game proves 2 things:
> 
> - That the Detroit Pistons are not mentally ready to win another title.
> ...


The fans were pissed their team got rolled at home, but you don't throw ****. That's the bottom line.

Who cares if fans have done this before. You don't throw stuff. You don't throw stuff and this doesn't happen.

Scum, is the word that comes to mind.


----------



## PacersguyUSA (Sep 1, 2002)

Ben Wallace should get the longest suspension because he went for the throat.


----------



## scapegoat (Feb 20, 2004)

*Re: boring anyway*



> Originally posted by <b>sherako</b>!
> - That the Detroit Pistons are not mentally ready to win another title.


That would imply that something had dramatically changed since the last title, since they were obviously mentally ready last year. Maybe you think Mehmet Okur was some Mahatma Ghandi-esque peacemaker.


----------



## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>scapegoat</b>!
> 
> 
> Ron Artest goes into the stands at Staples Center or wherever you live and attacks fans. The fans react and throw beer and popcorn at the players on the Pacers. Can I start slurring Los Angeleans?


*edited: Do not attack entire fanbases* These were suburban people no less. Thought they would be safe and they got exposed. Good for them. 

Maybe now, fans will no their roles and shut their mouths. You want to verbally abuse the players, fine. You want to throw stuff, well get ready for it to get real. 

No crocodile tears from me.


----------



## JT (Mar 1, 2004)

*tomfoolery!*



> Originally posted by <b>scapegoat</b>!
> 
> 
> Ron Artest goes into the stands at Staples Center or wherever you live and attacks fans. The fans react and throw beer and popcorn at the players on the Pacers. Can I start slurring Los Angeleans?


That didn't happen though, people keep bringing up IF statements. What did happen is that Detroit made a fool of themselves with all this ballyhoo and tomfoolery.


----------



## DaUnbreakableKinG (Jun 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>PacersguyUSA</b>!
> Ben Wallace should get the longest suspension because he went for the throat.


Would you say the same if he was on your team???


----------



## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

People also aren't explaining why the Pacers would want to fight, considering they have already whupped the Pistons on the court. Why would they want to fight?

This doesn't happen if the fan didn't instigate it.


----------



## JT (Mar 1, 2004)

*fouling with 45 secs left? stupid!*



> Originally posted by <b>scapegoat</b>!
> 
> 
> That would imply that something had dramatically changed since the last title, since they were obviously mentally ready last year.


There's a huge difference between winning the title once, and going to repeat the next year. From what I've seen, Detroit just isn't ready for that type of pressure.


----------



## DaUnbreakableKinG (Jun 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> 
> 
> LA fans are more civilized. These were suburban people no less. Thought they would be safe and they got exposed. Good for them.
> ...


Theres no way to measure if LA fans are more civilized than Detroit fans. So I don't think you should say that. :twocents:


----------



## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> 
> 
> LA fans are more civilized. These were suburban people no less. Thought they would be safe and they got exposed. Good for them.
> ...


i think whatever city it is you are going to find a few guys who drink too much and get out of hand, i personally dont think getting a cup of stale beer thrown at you warrants going into the stands, maybe thats just the way i was brought up. is it worth getting crazy with fans and being suspended for at least half the season?. i think the pacers need to look at the mental state of some of these guys(jackson,oneal and artest).


----------



## scapegoat (Feb 20, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> LA fans are more civilized. These were suburban people no less. Thought they would be safe and they got exposed. Good for them.


Are you implying that those in the inner city are less civilized than suburbanites? Also, you never answered my question.



> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> Maybe now, fans will no their roles and shut their mouths. You want to verbally abuse the players, fine. You want to throw stuff, well get ready for it to get real.
> 
> No crocodile tears from me.


What if that innocent fan that Artest had a knife, what if Ron Artest was in the hospital this morning for stab wounds cos he went into the stands to attack an innocent man? Maybe athletes should cool down a bit.


----------



## Pan Mengtu (Jun 18, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> 
> 
> LA fans are more civilized. These were suburban people no less. Thought they would be safe and they got exposed. Good for them.
> ...


I'm glad you feel that risking the lives of thousands of people, including small children, is justified so that no one shows you up. You're a real tough guy.


----------



## DaUnbreakableKinG (Jun 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> 
> 
> This doesn't happen if the fan didn't instigate it.


This doesn't happen if Artest didn't make his usual "angel" foul.


----------



## JoeD (Sep 2, 2004)

To bad it wasn't Staples Center.. I'd like to see Ron take out Jack Nicolson and some other famous actors.


----------



## scapegoat (Feb 20, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> People also aren't explaining why the Pacers would want to fight, considering they have already whupped the Pistons on the court. Why would they want to fight?
> 
> This doesn't happen if the fan didn't instigate it.


Because Ron Artest is nuts? Why did he flagrantly foul Ben when they were up fifteen with 45 ticks left?


----------



## DaUnbreakableKinG (Jun 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>JoeD</b>!
> To bad it wasn't Staples Center.. I'd like to see Ron take out Jack Nicolson and some other famous actors.


THAT I would like to see. Jack acts sometimes like he just got out of mental hospital. 


I like his movies though.


----------



## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Pan Mengtu</b>!
> 
> 
> I'm glad you feel that risking the lives of thousands of people, including small children, is justified so that no one shows you up. You're a real tough guy.


It wouldn't of happened, if the fan doesn't throw a beverage. Plain and simple. The Pacers won the game already. Ben Wallace spazzing out and then a fan throws a drink.

These are the repercussions when people think they can get away with stuff with no real consequence. It sucks that children were crying, but I wonder why do all of a sudden people care about the children, when during a game, the type of language you hear from fans is disgusting. 

Have you never been to a sporting event in America? It's not uncommon to see fights in the stand. Go to a Eagles-Giants game.

Please someone think of the children. Gimme a break.


----------



## DaUnbreakableKinG (Jun 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> 
> but I wonder why do all of a sudden people care about the children, when during a game, the type of language you hear from fans is disgusting.


The language won't hurt them. Artest + pacers players running into the stands will.


----------



## JoeD (Sep 2, 2004)

HKF while your points are fine, none of them have anything to do with Detroit, the city you called a cess poll on another thread. That happened to be the actual point...


----------



## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>DaUnbreakableKinG</b>!
> 
> 
> The language won't hurt them. Artest + pacers players running into the stands will.


So you've never seen youth sports where parents attack umps or other parents? Or when fans fight in the stands? That isn't good for the children either.

And if you don't believe hearing bad language hurts kids, then my advice to you is to have children and start letting expletives come from your mouth every other third word. Then when your kid is cursing, don't be surprised.


----------



## Pan Mengtu (Jun 18, 2004)

> These are the repercussions when people think they can get away with stuff with no real consequence. It sucks that children were crying, but I wonder why do all of a sudden people care about the children, when during a game, the type of language you hear from fans is disgusting.
> 
> Have you never been to a sporting event in America? It's not uncommon to see fights in the stand. Go to a Eagles-Giants game.
> 
> Please someone think of the children. Gimme a break.


There are riots in games all the time? Fights in a stand are only threatening to people in the immediate area. A riot where people are throwing chairs and pepper spray is being sprayed everything and there is general chaos is threatening to everyone.

But since you have outright rejected what I said, I will take that as evidence that you do acknowledge small children were in danger here, and that you *don't care* because Artest showing that he's a real man is more important.


----------



## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>JoeD</b>!
> HKF while your points are fine, none of them have anything to do with Detroit, the city you called a cess poll on another thread. That happened to be the actual point...


It's a black eye for the city and I stand by what I say. Even Robocop couldn't clean that stench up.


----------



## DaUnbreakableKinG (Jun 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> 
> 
> So you've never seen youth sports where parents attack umps or other parents? Or when fans fight in the stands? That isn't good for the children either.
> ...


We're talking about the game. Not at home man. Think. 

Those same kids will learn almost every damn curse word that there is in this planet so it will not, I repeat NOT hurt them. 

Again, Artest running like a bull into the stands could have hurt them or paralyze them or even kill them if they were infants. Think again before you rush your posts. You gotta cool man. Peace.


----------



## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Pan Mengtu</b>!
> 
> 
> There are riots in games all the time? Fights in a stand are only threatening to people in the immediate area. A riot where people are throwing chairs and pepper spray is being sprayed everything and there is general chaos is threatening to everyone.
> ...


Maybe the fan should have thought about his actions before he proceeded to throw things at Artest, eh? It's not that I don't care, but there are levels of blame. 

You seem to want to absolve the fans from any blame, because the players should be the bigger men. Then again, if I was in that situation, I wouldn't be the bigger man and my friends and I would be kicking some ***. 

It's like Charlie Murphy said. You don't disrespect another man and expect him to have restraint, just because that is what you think he should do. He is a human being. He is not a machine. With human emotions.


----------



## DaUnbreakableKinG (Jun 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> 
> 
> It's a black eye for the city and I stand by what I say. Even Robocop couldn't clean that stench up.


It's a black eye for the Indiana Pacers organization for keeping a player like Artest. A guy that can't keep his cool and that think that everyone is his enemy.


----------



## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

The little kid that ESPN shows crying over and over again's own dad was in the middle of the whole thing beating Fred Jones in the head. I think seeing his dad act like a moron and fighting at an NBA game in the midst of everything was what brought the kid to tears. Blame his irresponsible father for making him cry, who left his two little kids alone in the middle of a riot to get in on the action.


----------



## DaUnbreakableKinG (Jun 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> He is a human being. He is not a machine. With human emotions.


The fan that threw the beer was also a human and had human emotions.

He was seeing his team getting into a fight with a team they're going to battle for the championship and he wanted to defend his team. Let indiana know that the fans are behind their team. Those are all human emotions.


----------



## JoeD (Sep 2, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> 
> 
> It's a black eye for the city and I stand by what I say. Even Robocop couldn't clean that stench up.


There are bad people and shameful events in every city, I'm sure where you live is no different.


----------



## DaUnbreakableKinG (Jun 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> The little kid that ESPN shows crying over and over again's own dad was in the middle of the whole thing beating Fred Jones in the head. I think seeing his dad act like a moron and fighting at an NBA game in the midst of everything was what brought the kid to tears. Blame his irresponsible father for making him cry, who left his two little kids alone in the middle of a riot to get in on the action.


The irresponsible father saw steven hit the fan so hard and then saw jones coming like crazy so right away you think that you gotta protect your fellow fans and bang he started hitting jones. It's human emotions just like HKF says in his posts.


----------



## scapegoat (Feb 20, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> 
> 
> Maybe the fan should have thought about his actions before he proceeded to throw things at Artest, eh? It's not that I don't care, but there are levels of blame.
> ...


Um, yes. If you have millions of dollars at stake, as Artest should/does, if you're an NBA player who is expected (at least by David Stern) to be a role model for the community, I expect you to show restraint. If I'm a college-educated 24-year old man, I say, "Screw those stupid fans, they're hooligans, they're idiots." Then I go home and have a laugh and beer over it. 

But Artest will pay a just price.


----------



## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>DaUnbreakableKinG</b>!
> 
> 
> The fan that threw the beer was also a human and had human emotions.
> ...


So why is it alright for the fan to throw things and have human emotions? What human emotion was triggered to throw something? Huh? 

What sense did it make to throw something and lose what soon will be your priviledges to attend home games forever?


----------



## Debt Collector (Mar 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> The little kid that ESPN shows crying over and over again's own dad was in the middle of the whole thing beating Fred Jones in the head. I think seeing his dad act like a moron and fighting at an NBA game in the midst of everything was what brought the kid to tears. Blame his irresponsible father for making him cry, who left his two little kids alone in the middle of a riot to get in on the action.


:yes:


----------



## DaUnbreakableKinG (Jun 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> 
> 
> So why is it alright for the fan to throw things and have human emotions? What human emotion was triggered to throw something? Huh?
> ...


I'm saying it because you seem to be protecting a player which has proven many times that is a THUG. This is not his first time showing human emotions. Destroying the camera was a human emotion??? Comon man. You know better than this.


----------



## Pan Mengtu (Jun 18, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> It wouldn't of happened, if the fan doesn't throw a beverage. Plain and simple. The Pacers won the game already. Ben Wallace spazzing out and then a fan throws a drink.


I can see that you are confused with causation, so let me give you a quick lesson. What you are attempting to describe here is what is called a "necessary cause", that is, a cause that was absolutely necessary for the event to happen.

So was the fan throwing a beverage a necessary cause? Yes, most likely. But the problem with necessary causes is that there are often too many of them. For example, another necessary cause is the birth of Ben Wallace. If Ben Wallace was never born, he never shoves Artest, Artest never lays on the table, a riot never happens. Another necessary cause is the NBA allowing beer at games. If beer isn't at the game, drunk guys don't start riots. As you can see, we can list a near infinite amount of necessary causes.

So, in order to establish which cause is primarily responsible, what you do is look for the cause that explains what happened by itself; the cause that sets in motion the events which follow. It's the cause where everything that happens after is absolutely *inevitable*. It's called the sufficient cause.

The sufficient cause, in this example, is not the beer being thrown. A riot was not inevitable when a fan threw a beer. Beers have been thrown in the past, but there has never been a riot. 

So what is the sufficient cause? That's tough, actually. Somewhere during the fight in the stands a riot became inevitable. Maybe not necessarily as soon as Artest jumped into the stands. It might have been when Jackson started punching random guys. Or when other athletes came up there. I'm not sure. But it was in that general time frame that a riot was sure to break out, as chaos was beginning to take hold and people were thinking with the "I'm an anonymous member of a crowd" mentality and decided to throw popcorn and chairs and run out the court, etc.

So no, saying this is 100% the fan's fault, is inaccurate. As I've just shown.


----------



## Pan Mengtu (Jun 18, 2004)

****


----------



## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>scapegoat</b>!
> 
> 
> Um, yes. If you have millions of dollars at stake, as Artest should/does, if you're an NBA player who is expected (at least by David Stern) to be a role model for the community, I expect you to show restraint. If I'm a college-educated 24-year old man, I say, "Screw those stupid fans, they're hooligans, they're idiots." Then I go home and have a laugh and beer over it.
> ...


So regular people shouldn't be role models now? Hmmm... the Father who was Ben Wallaces brother that was wailing on Fred Jones, who was trying to break up the fight. I guess the father shouldn't be a role model to their kids.

This is why America is messed up. Why are parents, like the clown who threw something not role models? Why are you leaving it up to the athletes? Because they are famous. I don't worship these guys at all. They are people just like me. They just happen to be rich people. However, you have to realize, that people will lash out and you're putting unrealistic expectations on players to completely turn the cheek every single time. 

No one's perfect. I wonder if Steve Smith got hit with something and then smacked a fan, would people be saying the same stuff. I would wager since it was Artest, people feel he is some brute. This is about fans not escalating stuff and realizing they are not apart of the action. If they would just know their roles, this doesn't happen.


----------



## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

The guy Jermaine O'neal got decked by that was on the court, was punched to the ground by Anthony Johnson. Just for those of you who missed that part


----------



## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

I'm done with this. I'm not happy that Artest went into the stands, but I'm saying that the avg. person that had done to them, would have.

If you say you wouldn't have, more than likely I would never want you to have my back in a fight. You might as well cower in fear.


----------



## ssmokinjoe (Jul 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Pan Mengtu</b>!
> 
> 
> I can see that you are confused with causation, so let me give you a quick lesson. What you are attempting to describe here is what is called a "necessary cause", that is, a cause that was absolutely necessary for the event to happen.
> ...


I think i'd take the beer being thrown over "if Ben Wallace was never born" and "if Artest never lays on the table" as a more valid argument for instigating the riot. So if it's not 100% the fan's fault then it looks like it's in the 90s percentile to me.


----------



## DaUnbreakableKinG (Jun 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> *They are people just like me.* They just happen to be rich people.


You play in the NBA??? 


I didn't know.


----------



## scapegoat (Feb 20, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> So regular people shouldn't be role models now? Hmmm... the Father who was Ben Wallaces brother that was wailing on Fred Jones, who was trying to break up the fight. I guess the father shouldn't be a role model to their kids.
> 
> This is why America is messed up. Why are parents, like the clown who threw something not role models? Why are you leaving it up to the athletes? Because they are famous. I don't worship these guys at all. They are people just like me. They just happen to be rich people. However, you have to realize, that people will lash out and you're putting unrealistic expectations on players to completely turn the cheek every single time.
> ...


No, you're completely twisting my words. I'm saying that a professional athlete needs to conduct himself in a professional manner at all times. I will not argue that. A pro ballplayer goes on the road 42 times a year and hears crap talked about his wife, his mother, his alien-looking kid, all of them. At no time whatsoever do I condone him taking revenge on a fan. Ever. Yes, I expect him to turn the cheek every single time AND LET THE LAW DO THEIR WORK.


----------



## MLKG (Aug 25, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> 
> 
> So you've never seen youth sports where parents attack umps or other parents? Or when fans fight in the stands? That isn't good for the children either.
> ...


This is somehow an excuse for Artest attacking an innocent fan?

Your thought process is so convuluted it's sickening.

I've seen you make a lot of good posts in the past about racism and stereotyping, and here you sit now both stereotyping Detroit fans and seemingly perpetuating the same stereotypes of black males you are supposedly against.

Disheartening to say the least. And I think it's best for my blood pressure that I put you on ignore.

Peace.

Edit: Ok apparantly since you are a Mod I'm not allowed to ignore you. Even more disheartening.


----------



## DaUnbreakableKinG (Jun 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Mike luvs KG</b>!
> 
> 
> *I've seen you make a lot of good posts in the past* about racism and stereotyping, and here you sit now both stereotyping Detroit fans and seemingly perpetuating the same stereotypes of black males you are supposedly against.


not many but hundreds and hundreds of posts. I said it before that HKF is not only one of my favorite but might be my favorite poster here and would not want to see this board without him. 

But seeing him protecting artest like he is :nonono: it's just wrong.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> I'm done with this. I'm not happy that Artest went into the stands, but I'm saying that the avg. person that had done to them, would have.
> 
> If you say you wouldn't have, more than likely I would never want you to have my back in a fight. You might as well cower in fear.


I agree. Why is Artest supposed to be so different from the average man when put into this situation? If someone throws a cup or whatever the hell it was at me, Ima go after him, its that east. I also agree that anyone who says they wouldnt, I wouldnt want backing me up at any point in time, since they're eyes would probably be welled up with tears.

Detroits fans showed that a good majority of them a jackass drunkards. The Pacers may have a black mark on their team for awhile, but I will enjoy Detroits fanbase being known as drunk rioters. Enjoy the fun that will come with that.


----------



## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>scapegoat</b>!
> 
> 
> No, you're completely twisting my words. I'm saying that a professional athlete needs to conduct himself in a professional manner at all times. I will not argue that. A pro ballplayer goes on the road 42 times a year and hears crap talked about his wife, his mother, his alien-looking kid, all of them. At no time whatsoever do I condone him taking revenge on a fan. Ever. Yes, I expect him to turn the cheek every single time AND LET THE LAW DO THEIR WORK.


Would you turn the cheek to a beer being thrown on you in your environment, by a total stranger?


----------



## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>DaUnbreakableKinG</b>!
> 
> 
> You play in the NBA???
> ...


Why are you taking that so literally? Are you even reading my entire posts? They are human beings just like me and if you disrespect me, I'm going to punch you in your face.

If someone were to douse your friend with a drink, I'm sure you would knuckle up with your partner. I know I would (and have before). I try to be a pacifist, but if someone did that to me, I would have been livid.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mike luvs KG</b>!
> 
> 
> This is somehow an excuse for Artest attacking an innocent fan?
> ...


Would you like me to go out and get you some tissues? Would that help?

You just lost my respect, acting like a cry baby over HKF sticking up for a man who, IMO was a hell of alot less to blame the Detroits "fans" if I can even call some of them that.

Quit being a drama queen, or am I now on your ignore list as well?


----------



## DaUnbreakableKinG (Jun 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>R-Star</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


They don't drink beer at Conseco Fieldhouse, Madison Square Garden, Air Canada Centre, STAPLES Center, or Arco Arena????

You are 100% wrong in saying that Detroit fanbase will be known as drunk rioters. You're plain wrong. :twocents:


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> 
> 
> Why are you taking that so literally? Are you even reading my entire posts? They are human beings just like me and if you disrespect me, I'm going to punch you in your face.
> ...


Yep.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>DaUnbreakableKinG</b>!
> 
> 
> They don't drink beer at Conseco Fieldhouse, Madison Square Garden, Air Canada Centre, STAPLES Center, or Arco Arena????
> ...


You let me know when this happened at Arco, Conseco, MSG or the ACC.

It hasnt and wont happen. You guys keep pushing this "Bad Boy" image. Turns out, like we all knew in the first place, its a bunch of BS.

Other fans drink, but they dont try to fight the players, and pelt them with beer. Im sure you can find sometime when 1 fan threw 1 beer in many situations, but in recent years, nothing like "classy" detroit fans have done.

Im not wrong. Its that simple.


----------



## DaUnbreakableKinG (Jun 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> 
> 
> Why are you taking that so literally? Are you even reading my entire posts? They are human beings just like me and if you disrespect me, I'm going to punch you in your face.
> ...


That is where you are not being able to understand.

THey're not just like me and you who would fight for getting beer thrown at our faces. They're ********** proffesional and should act like it. Getting paid millions a year and getting to visit many cities for free is not in the same level as me and you. I don't get paid millions and you don't either and it's expected of us to retalieate and fight with someone that throws beer at us. NBA players cannot do that. It's proffesionalism. or nfl, mlb, mls players.


----------



## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

I will reiterate, I think Artest will and should be suspended. He was wrong, no questions about it. Why aren't people outraged with the unruly behavior of Detroit fan?

I mentioned this in the playoffs about Detroit's fans (against Milwaukee and Desmond Mason) and it came to roost again. This time they took it one step too far. 

Artest and Jackson (not O'Neal, the fan came on the court looking for trouble and got more than he bargained for) should be suspended. 

However, those fans should have their ticket rights revoked, for inciting a riot.


----------



## DaUnbreakableKinG (Jun 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>R-Star</b>!
> 
> 
> You let me know when this happened at Arco, Conseco, MSG or the ACC.
> ...


They didn't try to fight the players, Pacers tried to fight with them. You guys are twisting it. :nonono:


----------



## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

That's your problem. You're holding them to different standards because of wealth. 

Sorry that **** don't cut it. At the end of the day, a man is a man. Not a poor man, not a rich man. 

I'm a professional too, but no one tries to disrupt my workspace and once they do that, we got a problem and I'm going to handle it.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>DaUnbreakableKinG</b>!
> 
> 
> That is where you are not being able to understand.
> ...


So it would be profesional to just let someone disrespect you and walk away covered in beer?

No, I dont think I would want my kids looking up to a punk.


----------



## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

Jnice, I think you misinterpreted the sliding Jermaine punch. Firstly, the fan was on the court. Yes, that's not allowable and it's reasonable to assume Jermaine saw that Artest was threatened, and that he might be threatened. Secondly, and most importantly, if you look at the tape closely, the brother (or friend) of the guy Artest punched gets up and has a look of anger and _says something_ in Artest's direction. Looking at his mannerisms and his facial expressions during those few seconds, I could see where in the heat of the moment Jermaine may have viewed that as a threat.

It's *real* easy to analyze this via video, but it takes a concerted effort to fully understand what went on knowing that we weren't there and considering the circumstances (heated rivalry, hostile crowd on the road, etc.).


----------



## DaUnbreakableKinG (Jun 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>R-Star</b>!
> 
> 
> So it would be profesional to just let someone disrespect you and walk away covered in beer?


So then ben wallace is not wrong for going at artest? 

He didn't want to be disrespected. Simple as that.


----------



## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>EHL</b>!
> It's *real* easy to analyze this via video, but it takes a real effort to fully understand what went on knowing that we weren't there and considering the circumstances (heated rivalry, hostile crowd on the road, etc.).


Probably the truest words spoken about this incident since it happened.

The NBA is in a tough position because no matter what, there are going to be a lot of un-happy people.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> That's your problem. You're holding them to different standards because of wealth.
> 
> Sorry that **** don't cut it. At the end of the day, a man is a man. Not a poor man, not a rich man.
> ...


Exactley. If some cubicle worker came up and threw his water bottle and another worker, and then poured coke on him or something, should he just sit there and take it? I mean, thats his job man, he should be profesional and get back to writing program. Give me a ******* break. If he just sat there and did nothing, you guys would be happy?


----------



## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mike luvs KG</b>!
> 
> 
> This is somehow an excuse for Artest attacking an innocent fan?
> ...


No actually your thought process is crazy. Where is the line? From what I read from you, if a fan walks on to the court and punches a player that player should turn around and walk away. If, however, he hits the fan he should be suspended for life. 

You seem to be arguing fans can do whatever the heck they want at a game. Spend $50 and you are allowed any criminal behavior against a defenseless populace. Is that right? I wonder if we would have the same feeling if a man threw a beer at a WNBA player because he was pissed?

I think you thinking the Detroit fans involved in the stupidity should be allowed because they are fans. Well sir, Isay that is asinine. I also think it is David Stern's and the NBA's job to provide a safe working enviroment. Let us not act like this is an isolated incident. The fact that I have read 100's (yes 100's) of posts where people act like it is a right of passage for a fan to be able to dump their beverage on a player is sickening.

Alos for the Detroit fans who say Indiana should be ashamed for having Ron Artest on their team, remeber the blind eye you turned when you got Rasheed Wallace. Don't be hypocrites. At least try to be objective. 

Oh, yeah. Ron Artest did not throw one single punch in the stands. Look at the tape, rewind it, look at it again. He did not. So he never 'attacked' an innocent, he confronted somebody and was mobbed.


----------



## Tersk (Apr 9, 2004)

What happened to the fans? I think everyone involved should be suspended for life and that fat guy in the blue shirt should be suspended and have his whole family suspended for life


----------



## DaUnbreakableKinG (Jun 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> That's your problem. You're holding them to different standards because of wealth.
> 
> Sorry that **** don't cut it. At the end of the day, a man is a man. Not a poor man, not a rich man.
> ...


Hell yea bro, you should always hold them to a different standard. Their standard is way better than us. They got everything that we could only dream of and not many can achieve. They're superstars and are looked at. For kids they're heros. So it's not as same as me and you. Nobody sees us on tv night in and night out. They see artest, oneal, wallace, shaq etc. They're proffesional. If they're not then they shouldn't be playing. Simple as that.


----------



## J19 (Nov 16, 2004)

*This is bs*

this is bull****. 

The players should have gotten 10-15 games but the Detroit organization and arena should have gottent he biggest punishment. 

bull****. 

The corporate sponsors win again.

Ben Wallace gets a suspension for sparking the entire thing by pushing Artest for a "hard" foul that would have made Oakley, Mason or Xavier laugh. That was not even close to being a hard foul by real standards. Ben Wallace should of avoided the situation and moved on, he spazzed out on the court, and tried to killed Ron Artest



if you recall the Knicks Heat Brawl. The knicks got hit hard with the suspension. It cost them them the f'n series


What a disgrace to this league and everything about basketball


----------



## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> That's your problem. You're holding them to different standards because of wealth.
> 
> Sorry that **** don't cut it. At the end of the day, a man is a man. Not a poor man, not a rich man.
> ...


you and r-star certainly have the right to defend yourselves in a situation like this but you also have to be responsible for you actions as the players are. it may be noble and everything that 3 pacers went after fans, go ahead and defend them, but in the long run the pacers are punished because they will be without these guys for quite some time. as for artest especially he was basically on his last strike in this league. i would be shocked if he were back any time this season.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>DaUnbreakableKinG</b>!
> 
> 
> So then ben wallace is not wrong for going at artest?
> ...


Well Im sure in your eyes, it was fine for Wallace to do what he did.

He got a hard foul, it happens every day in the NBA, Wallace was just mad because the Pacers were handing him his ***.

Was it wrong? Yea. Justified? No. Big deal though? No. What Ben did also happens all the time, and Ron must have known there was a chance of it happening when he gave him the hard foul.

You trying to mix something that happened on the court to fans going on a boarderline riot is rediculous. And dont think Ill be baited into such a stupid argument. And if you dont realise how stupid of an argument it is, I hope its just because your bias.


----------



## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>DaUnbreakableKinG</b>!
> 
> 
> Hell yea bro, you should always hold them to a different standard. Their standard is way better than us. They got everything that we could only dream of and not many can achieve. They're superstars and are looked at. For kids they're heros. So it's not as same as me and you. Nobody sees us on tv night in and night out. They see artest, oneal, wallace, shaq etc. They're proffesional. If they're not then they shouldn't be playing. Simple as that.


Why would I hold a man who can bleed the same blood that I can to a higher standard? Sorry I don't do that.

Your perception is screwed. Also, don't assume that I don't have money or won't have money, as you don't really know what I do for a living. 

The main thing is, I am not a kid and they are not my heroes. I am a basketball fan. I played the game, through to my freshman year of college competitively. Fans crossing the line, is tough to take. 

If you hold them to a different standard because they are mythical basketball players, then I think you need to grow up and stop being a kid. You're 19, not 10. You shouldn't be looking up to them as heroes anyway. My hero is my mom. 

If this happened with Lebron, Steve Smith, Kirk Hinrich, I would be right with them.

The fact that it was Artest is of no consequence. It just made it even stupider for a fan to throw something at a guy like him. Seriously, what was he thinking?


----------



## J19 (Nov 16, 2004)

Ben Wallace has to be suspended the longest.

What will guys in the NBA think when they foul him? hes going to kick their ***? Seriously, stern has to handle this guy he showed he tried to kill Artest for giving him a regular foul.

I wish Oakley was in the league so he can kick his *** and teach his lesson whos the real badass, Ben Wallace is just a coward


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>MemphisX</b>!
> 
> 
> No actually your thought process is crazy. Where is the line? From what I read from you, if a fan walks on to the court and punches a player that player should turn around and walk away. If, however, he hits the fan he should be suspended for life.
> ...


I've been on this site from almost day 1, and I think this might be the best post I've ever read in my life. I think I should print it on gold paper and frame it on my wall.


----------



## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>DaUnbreakableKinG</b>!
> 
> 
> The irresponsible father saw steven hit the fan so hard and then saw jones coming like crazy so right away you think that you gotta protect your fellow fans and bang he started hitting jones.
> It's human emotions just like HKF says in his posts.


So you protect complete strangers before your own kids because they root for the same team as you? Are you listening to what you're saying here? That guy was one of the stupidest of all the stupid fans last night. Leaving his two kids their all alone in that hostile environment. Neither kid looked older than 8 or 9 years. Ridiculous.


----------



## texan (Jul 10, 2003)

I think 98% of fans and analysts realize this was not Ron Artest's fault. Ben Wallace instigated the whole thing, and the Detroit fans continued it. I actually think Ben Wallace deserves a longer suspension than Ron Artest. The foul was NOT THAT HARD. SJax had no business doing what he was doing, but I can totally justify O'Neal's punch b/c the guy was on the floor looking to fight. It is an easy assumption. If I were handing out the suspensions, it would look something like this:

Ron Artest: 8-10 games
Ben Wallace: 12-15 games
Jermaine O'Neal: 4-5 games
Stephen Jackson: 20 games

I would also require the Pistons to play a home game with an empty stadium. Require them to have more security personnell and have all the fans involved in fighting persecuted to the full extent of the law. Ben Wallace is just as much a thug last night as Artest or O'Neal was. Piston fans need to stop placing blame elsewhere and just recognize it was pretty much the Pistons fans/Ben Wallace's fault.


----------



## Brady00 (May 16, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>R-Star</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What Ben did does not happen all the time. Sure players push each other, but not in the face. Also Ben didn't stop once Artest left he continued to scream at him and throw a towel at Artest that does not happen all the time.


----------



## PacersguyUSA (Sep 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>MemphisX</b>!
> 
> 
> No actually your thought process is crazy. Where is the line? From what I read from you, if a fan walks on to the court and punches a player that player should turn around and walk away. If, however, he hits the fan he should be suspended for life.
> ...


That brought a tear to my eye. Nice job owning Piston fans.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>DaUnbreakableKinG</b>!
> 
> 
> The irresponsible father saw steven hit the fan so hard and then saw jones coming like crazy so right away you think that you gotta protect your fellow fans and bang he started hitting jones. It's human emotions just like HKF says in his posts.


Your posts are rediculous. You condem the players for having human emotions and "protecting your fellow player", then go around and talk about human emotions for fans being ok, and "protecting your fellow fans"? 

Rediculous. Your thought process sickens me.


----------



## 1 Penny (Jul 11, 2003)

The fat guy who JO cracked on the face was on the ground, it wasnt the same guy who provoked Artest. But This guy did tackle Artest after Artest threw the first punch to his friend. Thats understandable. He didnt went after Artest until after Artest went Mike Tyson on the first fat guy, he also just tackled Artest which he can justify as "restraining" Artest.


The punch was right in front of the camera in front of millions of people, some people will agree he deserved the punch, but some will also just be horrified on what they saw.



As I stated before, Stern will not allow NBA to become europe style soccer, where hooligans can start fighting against opposing teams. What Artest and Co, was start a new wave of Fans vs Players.

If you are a professional sportsman who are exposed to fans of opposing teams, you are expected to react accordingly to the emotions of the fans. Artest went into the crowd unneccessarily... If Artest stay put, chances are the guy who threw the beer would be caught on camera and banned from the arena.. But since Artest had to do something crazy since he just got punked by a bigger stronger more physically capable Ben wallace, he didnt want to rumble on the court. He went after the wrong guy even, jumping him without being 100%


Stephen Jackson was acting all gangsta after thats what really bothered me, he just wanted to get into a scuffle that night.


----------



## MLKG (Aug 25, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>R-Star</b>!
> 
> 
> I agree. Why is Artest supposed to be so different from the average man when put into this situation? If someone throws a cup or whatever the hell it was at me, Ima go after him, its that east. I also agree that anyone who says they wouldnt, I wouldnt want backing me up at any point in time, since they're eyes would probably be welled up with tears.


You want to know how Artest is different from the average man? The average man in a bar who beats up a guy for throwing a drink at him does not have the power to start a riot. 



> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> I will reiterate, I think Artest will and should be suspended. He was wrong, no questions about it. Why aren't people outraged with the unruly behavior of Detroit fan?


Throwing a drink at someone on the floor IS totally unacceptable. But Ron Artest has to let security do their jobs. The fan will get arrested, as he should, but seriously- what he did was about as far on the lower fringe of assault as you can get. It's NOT something that is worth starting a riot over.

That is where the perspective should be. What happened in the Palace was a riot, and as a Michigan State student, I know a thing or two about the horrible damage riots can cause.

Ron Artest directly contributed to starting a riot and that is why what he did was totally unacceptable and that is why you never ever ever go in the stands as a player.

Someone throws something at you, you rush the stands trying to get him but you get the wrong guy, a guy a row up pours his drink on you so your teammate hits him, another teammate runs up trying to break things up but the big guy with his kids there sees this and goes crazy, fans rush the floor, another teammate absolutely levels one of them, the rest of the arena sees this clearly and a hail of cups results.

That's why you can never ever rush the stands because it just starts a chain reaction of events that are impossible to stop.

I DON'T think fans should be able to do whatever they want and the fans who played a part in this mess should be punished. Players on the court have to be able to protect himself. I have never said anything about Ron punching that guy on the court. He was totally justified in doing that. What you simply can not do under any circumstances is rush a fan IN THE STANDS in a hostile arena. It just leads to more violence and puts THOUSANDS of innocent people in danger.

Why do I put most of the blame on Artest here? Because this is not the first time a player has been hit with a beverage. In fact, it happens ALL THE TIME. What happened in the Palace however does NOT happen all the time. Why? Because no player is stupid enough to start a fight with a fan in the stands. No player, that is, except our beloved Ron Artest.


----------



## DaUnbreakableKinG (Jun 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>R-Star</b>!
> 
> 
> Exactley. If some cubicle worker came up and threw his water bottle and another worker, and then poured coke on him or something, should he just sit there and take it? I mean, thats his job man, he should be profesional and get back to writing program. Give me a ******* break. If he just sat there and did nothing, you guys would be happy?


So you would consider losing your job? 

If you had a proffesional job that is. 

Not a s****y job.


----------



## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Well maybe fans will be smart enough to not throw things from now on, because they could get their faces re-arranged.

Just like when the stupid Yankee fans were throwing things, the Pistons fans shouldn't be excused. 

If this changes fan behavior, then this was a necessary event. Stay in your seat and curse for all I care. Just don't throw things.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>DaUnbreakableKinG</b>!
> 
> 
> So you would consider losing your job?
> ...


Yea, I would. And any self respecting man would

Im not a *****.


----------



## DaUnbreakableKinG (Jun 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>R-Star</b>!
> 
> 
> Your posts are rediculous. You condem the players for having human emotions and "protecting your fellow player", then go around and talk about human emotions for fans being ok, and "protecting your fellow fans"?
> ...


If it sickens you than you have a problem man. 

I don't agree with you but you're not siceking me. I won't go drop down to your "sickening" level. Hell no.

My posts are redicolous huh? 

My answer is don't read them. Simple as that. It seems that you can't take disagreements. Bye bye.


----------



## Burn (Feb 2, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>R-Star</b>!
> 
> 
> Yea, I would. And any self respecting man would
> ...


----------



## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

there is no justifying what the fans did. many were reprehensible. and criminal.

what wallace did was wrong, and he deserves a suspension, one consistent with other suspensions for a similar aggressive act (but not based on what happened afterwards, although throwing the towel could give him an extra game).

what artest needed to do though, was let it go. he let it go with wallace. he knew the risks there. he didn't let it go with the fan. the fan (who threw the beer) certainly crossed the line and my wish is that he is arrested. but artest, as a professional athlete, needed to act above the fray. he acted with human emotion, and i can't fault him entirely for that, but he needs to act within certain boundaries as a representative of the league. a league that is dependent upon things like this not happening, and a league that pays him handsomely. once you stoop down to the lowest common denominator level, the risk gets greater. the fan begins it, artest escalates it and puts others at risk. it's unfortunate that it falls on artest to act above those around him, but it is his responsibility.

again, artest was able to let go the wallace disrespect (and physical confrontation and aggression). he couldn't let it go from a single fan. from there, hell broke loose.


----------



## Dynasty Raider (Nov 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> 
> 
> Maybe the fan should have thought about his actions before he proceeded to throw things at Artest, eh? It's not that I don't care, but there are levels of blame.
> ...


Damn, HKF --- I never thought you and I would agree on anything. But, I am in agreement with you here.

However, I have a comment to the poster that asked "what if the LA fans ...". Well some of us in LA DID condemn the fans when they set police cars on fire, street fires, etc. after winning a championship. So, I imagine IF this happened in LA, we would have no reluctance criticizing the fans for giving us a black eye. Afterall, some of us believe that we conner the market on sophistication and class --- right?


----------



## jvanbusk (Jun 9, 2002)

I would like to know how that guy prone on his knees was putting Jermaine O'Neal in danger. 

Jermaine O'Neal was not acting in self defense. That was ruthless aggression. What he did was absolutely the most dispicable single event of the night. Do you remember the punch that almost killed Rudy Tomjanovich? That punch by O'Neal was of that calibar. He got a running start (running across the court) and absolutely drilled the guy with as much force as possible. It could and should result in a lawsuit, and was an absolute embarrasment to the league. I don't see how people stick up for it, just because the guy was on the court. That didn't give O'Neal the right to run across the court like a tough guy and punch the guy when he wasn't looking.


----------



## Dynasty Raider (Nov 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>jvanbusk</b>!
> I would like to know how that guy prone on his knees was putting Jermaine O'Neal in danger.



I have a different take on that . I believe he was trying to attack Artest while Artest was swinging on the first guy, that the floor was slippery, and that guy had already gone down when Jermaine started his swing. But, because of the slippery floor, Jermaine slide into the punch because could not stop his swing.


----------



## DaUnbreakableKinG (Jun 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>R-Star</b>!
> 
> 
> Yea, I would. And any self respecting man would
> ...


You're saying you would just to look tough in here. Hell no you wouldn't if you were a proffesional making 100s of Gs a year. You would NOT want to lose your job. 

ANd I thought my posts are redicilous? Why are you still reading them??


----------



## lakegz (Mar 31, 2004)

There is some serious garbage on this thread. Look, we can EMPATHIZE with Ron Artest, the other Pacers or the Detroit fans, but that wont do any good. What the fans did was wrong no matter how justified you think they are or if you excuse their emotions. theyll get found and arrested easily, you just dont throw beer at people or go into a fight, if you dont want to get arrested, you just run away. you may call that sissy, but there are a lot of tough guys in jail and a lot out of jail, which ones are the dumb ones? 
Ron Artest should be excused for the rest of this year because he ran like 8 rows into the stands just to assault somebody. You may say thats self defense but hes an NBA PLAYER!!!!! He must be the bigger man and walk away, we know he has a temper, but that does not excuse any of it, it just explains it. Going into the stands to attack a fan is simply inexcusable and he should be gone the rets of the year. Only a whole year off could cool his tempers, the fans tempers, and the media's attention. The league has to keep this under wraps for as long as it can and a year suspension is best towards accomplishing that aim. 
The actions of Stephen Jackson were just deplorable, He followed Ron Artest up in the stands only to kick ***. you dont run into the stands to defend yourself. He didnt get beer thrown on him initially so he had no business going up there, unless he wanted to participate in the lawlessness that exploded once artest crossed that line. 
I say Artest- gone for the season
Jackson- he should be gone for the season as well or at least 50 games.
Oneal should be given a 12 game suspension because he punched somebody, but it was on the court, so thats when self defense becomes more of an issue and things become more debatable.


----------



## DaUnbreakableKinG (Jun 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> Well maybe fans will be smart enough to not throw things from now on, because they could get their faces re-arranged.
> 
> Just like when the stupid Yankee fans were throwing things, the Pistons fans shouldn't be excused.
> ...


And hopefully players will be smart enough and not go into the stands for some stupid thing and be proffesional like they should be.


----------



## DaUnbreakableKinG (Jun 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>lakegz</b>!
> There is some serious garbage on this thread. Look, we can EMPATHIZE with Ron Artest, the other Pacers or the Detroit fans, but that wont do any good. What the fans did was wrong no matter how justified you think they are or if you excuse their emotions. theyll get found and arrested easily, you just dont throw beer at people or go into a fight, if you dont want to get arrested, you just run away. you may call that sissy, but there are a lot of tough guys in jail and a lot out of jail, which ones are the dumb ones?
> Ron Artest should be excused for the rest of this year because he ran like 8 rows into the stands just to assault somebody. You may say thats self defense but hes an NBA PLAYER!!!!! He must be the bigger man and walk away, we know he has a temper, but that does not excuse any of it, it just explains it. Going into the stands to attack a fan is simply inexcusable and he should be gone the rets of the year. Only a whole year off could cool his tempers, the fans tempers, and the media's attention. The league has to keep this under wraps for as long as it can and a year suspension is best towards accomplishing that aim.
> The actions of Stephen Jackson were just deplorable, He followed Ron Artest up in the stands only to kick ***. you dont run into the stands to defend yourself. He didnt get beer thrown on him initially so he had no business going up there, unless he wanted to participate in the lawlessness that exploded once artest crossed that line.
> ...


I agree with you man. 

Fans were wrong. But also the players were wrong and as a result Artest gets suspended for the whole season and jackson and joneal for many many games. :twocents:

Good job on the post. :greatjob:


----------



## lakegz (Mar 31, 2004)

Ron Artest and Stephen Jackson need to hone up like the men they are and face their punishment. What they did was flat out wrong. Had they not gone psycho, the fan who threw the beer would still have been arrested and had his punishment come to him. his punishment woulda come regardless, so what justifies Artest and Jackson going into the stands. 
we can only empathize, not justify.


----------



## Burn (Feb 2, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>DaUnbreakableKinG</b>!
> 
> 
> You're saying you would just to look tough in here. Hell no you wouldn't if you were a proffesional making 100s of Gs a year. You would NOT want to lose your job.
> ...


Wow, so to you money is more important than self-respect? I'd bet you could find a job servicing Asian businessmen that pays much better than the one you're currently in, would you go for that?

Maybe its just because I have a different worldview, but to me self-respect is the most important thing in the world. If your boss calls you into his office and says "Kiss my feet or you'll lose your job", what then? Do it, just because you're making 100s of Gs and don't want to lose your job?

I don't consider what R-Star said to be tough...I consider it to be the only way anyone should go through life, otherwise I feel sorry for them.


----------



## DaUnbreakableKinG (Jun 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Burn</b>!
> 
> 
> Wow, so to you money is more important than self-respect? I'd bet you could find a job servicing Asian businessmen that pays much better than the one you're currently in, would you go for that?
> ...


But the boss won't do that. You know that damn well. He was talking if someone threw a glass of beer or water on you. I would kick his *** at the job I have right now. But if I was a lawyer, doctor I wouldn't get down to that level. And neither would you. You can go ahead and say you would but you're not telling the truth.


and another thing, if someone throws water or beer at you and you just stand there won't change your selfrespect. You can have all the damn selfrespect in the world and if you retailated for something as dumb as that then you're worse than that guy that threw the water/beer at you.

And no money is not that important to me. But without money we can't live. Money keeps the world going around.


----------



## lakegz (Mar 31, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Burn</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> I don't consider what R-Star said to be tough...I consider it to be the only way anyone should go through life, otherwise I feel sorry for them.


OK, what loses you more respect........Restraining yourself? Or losing your cool, running into the stands and causing a riot? 
It was a public space and there are public rules you must adhere to if you want to live in a civilized manner.


----------



## DaUnbreakableKinG (Jun 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>lakegz</b>!
> 
> 
> OK, what loses you more respect........Restraining yourself? Or losing your cool, running into the stands and causing a riot?
> It was a public space and there are public rules you must adhere to if you want to live in a civilized manner.


:greatjob:



It seems that almost everyone is forgeting about artests' past. This is not his first time he does this man. :nonono: 

No doubt that he has major problems in his brain and that he should seek medical help. :twocents:


----------



## Vintage (Nov 8, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>lakegz</b>!
> 
> 
> OK, what loses you more respect........Restraining yourself? Or losing your cool, running into the stands and causing a riot?
> It was a public space and there are public rules you must adhere to if you want to live in a civilized manner.



Exactly.


----------



## HeinzGuderian (Jun 29, 2004)

It seems like society has totally warped alot of peoples minds to sickening levels. You have to beat people up to maintain self respect? You have to be the tough guy, because thats what our society likes? Dispicable.


----------



## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jvanbusk</b>!
> I would like to know how that guy prone on his knees was putting Jermaine O'Neal in danger.


It's the same exact logic you can use for the guys who were punching Fred Jones, Rasheed Wallace and the guys up in the stands who were trying to stop the fight. What were Jones and Wallace doing in the stands? They belong on the court, just like the fans belong in the stands. The second a fan steps onto the court at an NBA game, they are fair game to get punched in the face like that guy did by O'Neal, because they belong in the stands, not on the court. Just like the fans had the right to attack Jones and other "peacemakers" in the stands, O'Neal and Artest had the right to punch fans who went out on the court.


----------



## jvanbusk (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> 
> 
> It's the same exact logic you can use for the guys who were punching Fred Jones, Rasheed Wallace and the guys up in the stands who were trying to stop the fight. What were Jones and Wallace doing in the stands? They belong on the court, just like the fans belong in the stands. The second a fan steps onto the court at an NBA game, they are fair game to get punched in the face like that guy did by O'Neal, because they belong in the stands, not on the court. Just like the fans had the right to attack Jones and other "peacemakers" in the stands, O'Neal and Artest had the right to punch fans who went out on the court.


So during the game a player dives into the stands to save the ball. Because he is in the stands, which is my area I have the right to punch and kick him? That's not how it works.


----------



## Scott (Jan 15, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>DaUnbreakableKinG</b>!
> 
> 
> The irresponsible father saw steven hit the fan so hard and then saw jones coming like crazy so right away you think that you gotta protect your fellow fans and bang he started hitting jones. It's human emotions just like HKF says in his posts.


Did you see anything that is a blatant lie. Jones was trying the seperate his guys and then that fat guy started hitting him from behind he wasn't protecting anyone. David Harrison and Fred Jones were trying to get their guys out of their those piston "fans" were making it worse by attacking them. They are just lucky Harrison did not lose his temper.

The security was horrible and that is the main problem. the idiot threw the drink was able to get close to Artest and throw it form point blank range. That is pathetic. In many other arenas they have security that is turned towards the fans (not the court) the entire time. This would not of happened if the security in Detroit was not so incompetent.


----------



## DaUnbreakableKinG (Jun 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Scott</b>!
> That is pathetic. In many other arenas they have security that is turned towards the fans (not the court) the entire time. This would not of happened if the security in Detroit was not so incompetent.


Qo you know why they were turned towards the court??? 

A:Cause there was a fight (almost) going between the players (artest vs. wallace) and others. So thats why.


----------



## HeinzGuderian (Jun 29, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>DaUnbreakableKinG</b>!
> 
> 
> Qo you know why they were turned towards the court???
> ...


It is obvious that a fight would be one of the events that could provoke fans emotions to do something stupid, especially when their team is getting destroyed. Thus they should have been doing there jobs correctly.


----------



## Scott (Jan 15, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>DaUnbreakableKinG</b>!
> 
> 
> They didn't try to fight the players, Pacers tried to fight with them. You guys are twisting it. :nonono:


Fred Jones was really wailing on people when the guy in the gray startied hitting him right? No he wasn't.

You have had some of the worst arguments I have seen on any messageboard in this thread, just please stop and don't hurt you're credibilty anymore. Some of your points (if I can call them that) aren't enven good enough for RealGM :uhoh:


----------



## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jvanbusk</b>!
> 
> 
> So during the game a player dives into the stands to save the ball. Because he is in the stands, which is my area I have the right to punch and kick him? That's not how it works.


Please tell me this post is a joke. If not, then I'll explain how what you just said makes no sense whatsoever and is completely illogical, but I don't want to waste my time unless you really don't see the difference.


----------



## jvanbusk (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> 
> 
> Please tell me this post is a joke. If not, then I'll explain how what you just said makes no sense whatsoever and is completely illogical, but I don't want to waste my time unless you really don't see the difference.


Please explain.

Because you stated that it is not wrong for a player to physically attack a fan that comes onto the court during the game.

To act in self-defense you need to be threatened.

Therefore the guy that was doing no harm to Jermaine O'Neal should not have had to endure a cheap sucker punch. He was in a relatively defenseless position when he got smoked.

I do not believe the fans have the "right to attack peacemakers in the stands". I only believe that fans and players have the right to defend themselves. There was nothing threatening to Jermaine O'Neal.


----------



## Vintage (Nov 8, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>jvanbusk</b>!
> 
> 
> Please explain.
> ...



Oh, c'mon.

That guy was clearly getting ready to fill up his plastic cup with more beer.

O'Neal's life was at stake.


----------



## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jvanbusk</b>!
> 
> 
> Please explain.
> ...


You don't see the difference? OK, let me put this into simple terms: Diving into the stands for a loose ball is not intentionally going into the stands, and it's not during the middle of a riot. Going out onto the court during a riot sends the message that you're not just out their to watch. I don't care if he looked threatning or not, he was out on the court during a huge fight.


----------



## Scott (Jan 15, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>DaUnbreakableKinG</b>!
> 
> 
> Qo you know why they were turned towards the court???
> ...


That doesn't matter thier job is fan security. Do you ever see NBA fights on the court being seperated by security. If you have tell me when.


----------



## Scott (Jan 15, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jvanbusk</b>!
> 
> 
> Please explain.
> ...


Have you ever been in any kind of environment remotly like that? Obviously not. That guy deserved what he got. Before you say anything else just think why was he there? To congradulate Artest on a good game? To ask for an autograph? I don't think so.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>DaUnbreakableKinG</b>!
> 
> 
> You're saying you would just to look tough in here. Hell no you wouldn't if you were a proffesional making 100s of Gs a year. You would NOT want to lose your job.
> ...


Hell yes I would. Who are you to say what I would do? There are always other jobs, and if your qualified for one 100 g a year job, your qulified for another. Im not going to lose my respect for myself to keep a job. There will always be other jobs, but self respect is something Im not willing to lose over a job.


----------



## jvanbusk (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> 
> 
> You don't see the difference? OK, let me put this into simple terms: Diving into the stands for a loose ball is not intentionally going into the stands, and it's not during the middle of a riot. Going out onto the court during a riot sends the message that you're not just out their to watch. I don't care if he looked threatning or not, he was out on the court during a huge fight.


He was in a defenseless position, and Jermaine O'Neal took it upon himself to move across the court to punch him in the face. There was no need for more violence, things would have cleared out.

But yeah, that's justifiable.


----------



## Vintage (Nov 8, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>R-Star</b>!
> 
> 
> Hell yes I would. Who are you to say what I would do? There are always other jobs, and if your qualified for one 100 g a year job, your qulified for another. Im not going to lose my respect for myself to keep a job. There will always be other jobs, but self respect is something Im not willing to lose over a job.


Then, when they asked why you were fired, you can proudly say "because I kicked the **** out of someone who threw water at me."

Your employer will undoubtedly be impressed at your willingness to resort to physical violence, and be anxious to hire you, bec. you pose little threat to causing a lawsuit.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Burn</b>!
> 
> 
> Wow, so to you money is more important than self-respect? I'd bet you could find a job servicing Asian businessmen that pays much better than the one you're currently in, would you go for that?
> ...


Exactley


----------



## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> 
> 
> You don't see the difference? OK, let me put this into simple terms: Diving into the stands for a loose ball is not intentionally going into the stands, and it's not during the middle of a riot. Going out onto the court during a riot sends the message that you're not just out their to watch. I don't care if he looked threatning or not, he was out on the court during a huge fight.


The guy O'Neal ended up laying out was a peace-maker, trying to separate his friend from Artest. If punching him was justified, since he was on the floor, is it justified for fans to attack players who go into stands as peace-makers?


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>DaUnbreakableKinG</b>!
> 
> 
> But the boss won't do that. You know that damn well. He was talking if someone threw a glass of beer or water on you. I would kick his *** at the job I have right now. But if I was a lawyer, doctor I wouldn't get down to that level. And neither would you. You can go ahead and say you would but you're not telling the truth.
> ...


Thanks for once again telling us what we would and wouldnt do. We all appreciate it.


----------



## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

artest was able to swallow his pride and be disrespected by ben wallace.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>jvanbusk</b>!
> 
> 
> So during the game a player dives into the stands to save the ball. Because he is in the stands, which is my area I have the right to punch and kick him? That's not how it works.


Rediculous. Your smart enough to know this is just a stupid thing to say towards his argument.


----------



## jvanbusk (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Scott</b>!
> Have you ever been in any kind of environment remotly like that? Obviously not. That guy deserved what he got. Before you say anything else just think why was he there? To congradulate Artest on a good game? To ask for an autograph? I don't think so.


I don't disagree that he probably was there with bad intentions, but he actually never did anything threatening whatsoever. He tackled Artest after Artest started pounding on his buddy. To which Chuck Person took it upon himself to get involved. 

For all we know these guys were in the first row and he was trying to stop his buddy from going on to the court. So he separates Artest from his buddy, gets attacked by Chuck Person because of it and then gets sucker punched by Jermaine O'Neal.

Jermaine should have just stayed out of it. The numbers were already in the team's favor. He didn't need to come across the court and throw a sucker punch. And that's why it might result in a lawsuit. You can see guys like Eddie Gill (who also was seperating the fight, which is what most responsible humans will do) and Austin Croshere in the background standing there dumbfounded by what is going on.


----------



## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Minstrel</b>!
> 
> 
> The guy O'Neal ended up laying out was a peace-maker, trying to separate his friend from Artest. If punching him was justified, since he was on the floor, is it justified for fans to attack players who go into stands as peace-makers?


A peacemaker my ***. Chuck Person didn't tackle him for the hell of it. :no:


----------



## jvanbusk (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> 
> 
> A peacemaker my ***. Chuck Person didn't tackle him for the hell of it. :no:


Is it possible that Chuck Person didn't see the original punches thrown by Ron Artest on the first fat guy, and only saw the second fat guy tackle Artest?

Or, it could be possible that Chuck Person is as much of a thug as the Palace fans.


----------



## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> 
> 
> A peacemaker my ***. Chuck Person didn't tackle him for the hell of it. :no:


Yes, clearly if *Chuck Person* tackled the guy, the guy was up to evil. Because we've all come to depend on Chuck Person as our guiding influence.

By the same argument, Artest must have been up to some hanky-panky on the scorer's table. Random Fan 2826 didn't throw a beer at him for the hell of it. :no:


----------



## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Minstrel</b>!
> 
> 
> Yes, clearly if *Chuck Person* tackled the guy, the guy was up to evil. Because we've all come to depend on Chuck Person as our guiding influence.
> ...


If you don't think those two fans were on the court up to no good, as they clearly seeked out Artest, then I don't know what to tell you.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Minstrel</b>!
> 
> 
> Yes, clearly if *Chuck Person* tackled the guy, the guy was up to evil. Because we've all come to depend on Chuck Person as our guiding influence.
> ...


It turns out some of you think you can just ramble on making no sence and use it as an argument.


----------



## Vintage (Nov 8, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>R-Star</b>!
> 
> 
> It turns out some of you think you can just ramble on making no sence and use it as an argument.


That's funny. I understand what he is saying.

OHHHHHHHHH!

Now I get it.

Because your team did the actions, clearly, since they are your team, they are in the right.

Damn threatening plastic beer cups.


----------



## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>R-Star</b>!
> 
> 
> It turns out some of you think you can just ramble on making no sence and use it as an argument.


You're generally a good poster, R-Star, but you don't have a shred of objectivity when the Pacers are involved. Nor do you pretend to.

And the post of mine you responded to was sarcasm, as I don't think someone doing somthing aggressive is proof that the original person was doing anything wrong.


----------



## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> 
> 
> If you don't think those two fans were on the court up to no good, as they clearly seeked out Artest, then I don't know what to tell you.


One of them was clearly up to no good, as he attacked Artest and deserved what he got. The second guy was clearly trying to separate them and got clocked by O'Neal.


----------



## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Minstrel</b>!
> 
> 
> The guy O'Neal ended up laying out was a peace-maker, trying to separate his friend from Artest. If punching him was justified, since he was on the floor, is it justified for fans to attack players who go into stands as peace-makers?


During a riot, yes. In the heat of the moment, are you going to stop and see whether a guy right in front of you is going to attack you or if he's just a peacemaker? No, you're not. If a player's in the stands during the fight, you have every right to punch the player. Likewise, when a fan is on the court during the fight, you have every right to punch him.


----------



## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Minstrel</b>!
> 
> 
> One of them was clearly up to no good, as he attacked Artest and deserved what he got. The second guy was clearly trying to separate them and got clocked by O'Neal.


Minstrel I have to disagree. In this case, he was guilty by association. He probably had numerous chances to stop his friend from confronting Artest, but didn't. Now in that situation, if my friend is trying to cause trouble for no reason, I'm not going in there.

Case in point, the dude who threw the beverage. I would have left him to whatever *** kicking was coming to him. He started that stuff. If my friend decides in the middle of the fracas to to seek out Artest, when he had no part in it, then I can't be a party to that, because I run the risk of getting hurt, due to my friend trying to be a tough guy. 

Those two guys who went on the floor, put themselves in danger on their own admission. Just like the fan who threw that stuff at Artest, put other people at risk by being a jerk and throwing stuff.

I wonder if he missed and would have nailed Miller or Carlisle what people would have said. What possessed the fan to throw something? What would make someone do that?


----------



## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> 
> 
> During a riot, yes. In the heat of the moment, are you going to stop and see whether a guy right in front of you is going to attack you or if he's just a peacemaker? No, you're not. If a player's in the stands during the fight, you have every right to punch the player. Likewise, when a fan is on the court during the fight, you have every right to punch him.


Fair enough. I don't agree, as I think that "act before considering" mentality is what keeps riots going and ends up potentially harming a lot of innocent people, but at least that's consistent both directions.


----------



## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> 
> 
> Minstrel I have to disagree. In this case, he was guilty by association. He probably had numerous chances to stop his friend from confronting Artest, but didn't. Now in that situation, if my friend is trying to cause trouble for no reason, I'm not going in there.


Perhaps. For all we know, he was there trying to calm his friend (or family member) down. All I can judge is the actions I did see, and that second guy didn't attack anyone, in my view. He was trying to keep Artest and his friend apart.

Maybe he shouldn't have been there (just as sports leagues tell players they shouldn't play peace-maker in the stands), but I don't think he deserved what O'Neal delivered.


----------



## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Minstrel</b>!
> 
> 
> Fair enough. I don't agree, as I think that "act before considering" mentality is what keeps riots going and ends up potentially harming a lot of innocent people, but at least that's consistent both directions.


Minstrel, what you're saying makes sense, but it doesn't work like that. What you're saying would be the ideal way to handle a situation like that, but it would only work if _everyone_ involved had that mindset. Otherwise, those who are using that mentality will be the ones getting knocked out. That's why I think it's self defense to attack someone when they're not where they're supposed to be during a big fight. Clearly, no one had that mindset of thinking before they acted last night, so why should you pinpoint one person and say they should've?


----------



## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

Yeah... So I guess that guy punching Fred Jones in the back of the head was justified... I mean hell, the player is IN the stands... What the hell... What's he doing in there? I mean if a player is going into the stands to fight someone, and a player goes there to go bring him back, he is now on my turf and I have every right to proceed to beat the hell out of him correct?


----------



## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>S-Star</b>!
> Yeah... So I guess that guy punching Fred Jones in the back of the head was justified... I mean hell, the player is IN the stands... What the hell... What's he doing in there? I mean if a player is going into the stands to fight someone, and a player goes there to go bring him back, he is now on my turf and I have every right to proceed to beat the hell out of him correct?


Well the thing is, the guy felt it was more important to pummel a guy who was trying to be a peacemaker, rather then worry if his small children were safe. Priorities?


----------



## Pan Mengtu (Jun 18, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>S-Star</b>!
> Yeah... So I guess that guy punching Fred Jones in the back of the head was justified... I mean hell, the player is IN the stands... What the hell... What's he doing in there? I mean if a player is going into the stands to fight someone, and a player goes there to go bring him back, he is now on my turf and I have every right to proceed to beat the hell out of him correct?


Now, now. Let's not waste our time with silly things like "logical reasoning." Instead let's applaud all the players for showing what true homies they are that will start riots if you disrespect them. After all, what's more important than looking like a tough guy?


----------



## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>S-Star</b>!
> Yeah... So I guess that guy punching Fred Jones in the back of the head was justified... I mean hell, the player is IN the stands... What the hell... What's he doing in there? I mean if a player is going into the stands to fight someone, and a player goes there to go bring him back, he is now on my turf and I have every right to proceed to beat the hell out of him correct?


Hindsight is 20-20. The bottom line is, you don't know what a player's intentions are when they go up there. Say I was in the stands, I had done nothing wrong and I saw Stephen Jackson coming up. What if I had just "assumed" he was coming up to get Artest out? I could very easily be laying flat on my face, knocked out in a couple seconds. That's why it's self defense to do whatever you can to make sure you're safe once the players have stepped over their boundaries.


----------



## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> 
> 
> Well the thing is, the guy felt it was more important to pummel a guy who was trying to be a peacemaker, rather then worry if his small children were safe. Priorities?


Is anyone certain the guy punching Jones is the same big dude they show standing next to the kids? I dont think it was. The guy who attacked Jones had some sort of credentials around his neck. The guy they show with the kids just had a bling bling around his neck.

There was a video posted around here recently that shows some different angles and they show that big dude that attacked Jones pretty clearly standing right behind the scorers during the time that Artest was laying there .... with obviously some kind of credentials around his neck and no kids around.

Not that it matters, but I think those were two different people.

This is the video I was talking about - Best Video Yet


----------



## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> 
> 
> Minstrel, what you're saying makes sense, but it doesn't work like that. What you're saying would be the ideal way to handle a situation like that, but it would only work if _everyone_ involved had that mindset. Otherwise, those who are using that mentality will be the ones getting knocked out. That's why I think it's self defense to attack someone when they're not where they're supposed to be during a big fight. Clearly, no one had that mindset of thinking before they acted last night, so why should you pinpoint one person and say they should've?


It's not like every player or every fan was fighting. The players who chose not to fight didn't get "knocked out."

I'm pinpointing individuals, because they all have individual responsibility. Individuals can't defend themselves by using the claim of mob dynamics. A mob is not an entity you can hold responsible. A person is. Or every person in a mob/riot.

I'm all for holding the fans involved responsible (use the video tape, round up as many as you can and cuff 'em), but I'm also all for holding the players responsible.

Some had the mindset of not going after others. In fact, most (fans and players) did. Therefore, one can definitely criticize those that didn't, in my view.


----------



## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>JNice</b>!
> 
> 
> Is anyone certain the guy punching Jones is the same big dude they show standing next to the kids? I dont think it was. The guy who attacked Jones had some sort of credentials around his neck. The guy they show with the kids just had a bling bling around his neck.
> ...


I don't know, it seems like to much of a coincidence to me. Both guys are heavy African-Americans wearing gray shirts. And if he wasn't the father of the kids, the father or whoever was with those two kids was obviously doing a crappy job watching them because your little boy is just standing their frightened to death, crying and you're nowhere to be found. To me, it just seems like it's a bit of a stretch to think that big of a coincidence that they were two different people, but I could be wrong. This story is about as strange as it gets in the NBA, why not add another oddity?


----------



## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> 
> 
> I don't know, it seems like to much of a coincidence to me. Both guys are heavy African-Americans wearing gray shirts. And if he wasn't the father of the kids, the father or whoever was with those two kids was obviously doing a crappy job watching them because your little boy is just standing their frightened to death, crying and you're nowhere to be found. To me, it just seems like it's a bit of a stretch to think that big of a coincidence that they were two different people, but I could be wrong. This story is about as strange as it gets in the NBA, why not add another oddity?


Unless he took the credentials off from around his neck, then I am pretty sure it wasn't him. The guy who attacked Jones definitely had them and if I remember correctly from last night, the guy with the kids didn't.

And if that was the guy with the kids, then he abandoned them in the stands long before the actual melee started because he was standing behind the scorer's table for a couple minutes before Artest jumped into the stands.

I'm going to investigate right now.


----------



## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Minstrel</b>!
> 
> 
> It's not like every player or every fan was fighting. The players who chose not to fight didn't get "knocked out."
> ...


But once again, hindsight is 20-20, and you don't know who's a peacemaker and who's not. Fans going out on the court sure gives the impression that you're out there to fight, whether he was or not, I can't blame O'Neal because he didn't know at the time what the guy was going to do or not do.


----------



## jvanbusk (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> 
> 
> But once again, hindsight is 20-20, and you don't know who's a peacemaker and who's not. Fans going out on the court sure gives the impression that you're out there to fight, whether he was or not, I can't blame O'Neal because he didn't know at the time what the guy was going to do or not do.


I can because he wasn't in the vicinity when it broke out.

He came running over and threw a haymaker. There was no thought of trying to break up the fight, only escalate it.


----------



## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Looking at the other video and the link JNice posted, it's apparent that fans didn't just throw something onto the court at Artest first. That was the 2nd time in that small amount of time a fan threw something. 

I also feel had that guy not tried to douse Artest, Jackson doesn't nail him. He thought he could be slick and got popped. 

It's clear the guy in the blue shirt pushed Artest into the guy with the glasses. 

The players are at fault, but the Pistons fans will continue get blame from me, especially when I have to listen to these sports radio clowns, blame the players only.

Why can't fans ever be accountable for their unruly behavior?


----------



## jvanbusk (Jun 9, 2002)

I disagree about Jackson. Judging by his actions on the court, he was looking for a fight. When he couldn't get one on the court, he jumped at the opportunity to get one in the stands.


----------



## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

That same link also has another video where they show who exactly the guy was who threw the drink. It was the guy standing right next to the one Artest went after, which most of us already assumed. But they got him on tape throwing the drink.


----------



## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>lakegz</b>!
> Ron Artest should be excused for the rest of this year because he ran like 8 rows into the stands just to assault somebody. You may say thats self defense but hes an NBA PLAYER!!!!! He must be the bigger man and walk away, we know he has a temper, but that does not excuse any of it, it just explains it.


Oh, yeah. Because he's an NBA player, he's held to a higher regard? Wrong. He's human, just like you and me. He has human emotions just like you and me. He is no different from you and me. The fact that he's an NBA player means nothing.

*NBA PLAYERS ARE NOT ROBOTS.*


----------



## sweet_constipation (Jul 3, 2004)

Still my take:

The 2nd fat guy was the one that tackled Artest to the ground. He's involved himself at this point. The same way JO *involved* himself a couple seconds later.


Just like I have no problems with fans ganging on Artest once he's in the stands and Jackson coming through with his ghetto-jitsu, I have no problem with those two fat guys helping each other out.
They're fair game imo.


----------



## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Spriggan</b>!
> *NBA PLAYERS ARE NOT ROBOTS.*


Lebron is half-robot.


----------



## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>jvanbusk</b>!
> I disagree about Jackson. Judging by his actions on the court, he was looking for a fight. When he couldn't get one on the court, he jumped at the opportunity to get one in the stands.


This could be true, but he didn't throw a punch until the fan doused Artest with his drink. For every action there was a reaction. I can see how common sense gets lost in all of this, but why would you drench Artest with your beer, with Jackson following him up into the stands? 

I hope that guy wasn't surprised he got hit. He should be glad that David Harrison and James Jones came to his defense, or Jackson would have messed him up.


----------



## sweet_constipation (Jul 3, 2004)

Also, out of all these posts from this thread, as well as the original monster-sized thread, why is anyone hardly talking about the "weasel"?

He throws the cup, nudges Artest in the direction of the innocent geek, and then starts throwing punches to the back/side of Artest's head.
I just wish the punch Artest sent his way would have landed cleanly.


----------



## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>sweet_constipation</b>!
> Also, out of all these posts from this thread, as well as the original monster-sized thread, why is anyone hardly talking about the "weasel"?
> 
> He throws the cup, nudges Artest in the direction of the innocent geek, and then starts throwing punches to the back/side of Artest's head.
> I just wish the punch Artest sent his way would have landed cleanly.


Very true. They've got him on tape. He will face charges once they figure out who he is.


----------



## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>sweet_constipation</b>!
> Also, out of all these posts from this thread, as well as the original monster-sized thread, why is anyone hardly talking about the "weasel"?
> 
> He throws the cup, nudges Artest in the direction of the innocent geek, and then starts throwing punches to the back/side of Artest's head.
> I just wish the punch Artest sent his way would have landed cleanly.


That guy clearly started this whole thing and what should happen is, he should be exposed on TV for it. Let fans know this stuff is not allowable. 

Don't just let him anonymously get reprimanded. Put him out there for all to see. Just like Artest and Jackson, that dude too.


----------



## jvanbusk (Jun 9, 2002)

It all happened really fast. As Jackson was getting up there ready to fight someone hit Artest with a drink. When he saw that he decided who it would be that he would fight.

Had there been no drenching, Jackson would have still found somebody to fight. That was the mindset he was in.


----------



## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

The dude that threw the drink on Artest that got punched by Jackson, he sure did wait to try and throw his drink into Artest's face and then he got the heck out of there. 

Just an ugly ugly incident.


----------



## Tersk (Apr 9, 2004)

DELETE ME, DELETE ME


----------



## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>jvanbusk</b>!
> It all happened really fast. As Jackson was getting up there ready to fight someone hit Artest with a drink. When he saw that he decided who it would be that he would fight.
> 
> Had there been no drenching, Jackson would have still found somebody to fight. That was the mindset he was in.


This is an assumption not a fact. The fact is, the Pistons fans (or should I say fan) escalated the situation, into a melee.


----------



## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

Regaurdless... Artest and Jackson made a DUMB move going into the crowd, JO made a DUMB move punching that guy in the face... It isn't justified at all... Simple as that... You guys sound like little kids! "WELL HE STARTED IT!!!!" What the hell are you people like 3 years old? It doesn't matter who STARTED it, they participated, they further escalated the situation, they deserve whatever punshiment they get...


----------



## Vintage (Nov 8, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>S-Star</b>!
> Regaurdless... Artest and Jackson made a DUMB move going into the crowd, JO made a DUMB move punching that guy in the face... It isn't justified at all... Simple as that... You guys sound like little kids! "WELL HE STARTED IT!!!!" What the hell are you people like 3 years old? It doesn't matter who STARTED it, they participated, they further escalated the situation, they deserve whatever punshiment they get...



A-Fricken-Men.

Couldn't agree more.


----------



## jvanbusk (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> 
> 
> This is an assumption not a fact. The fact is, the Pistons fans (or should I say fan) escalated the situation, into a melee.


It's only as much of an assumption as saying Jackson wouldn't have fought without the guy throwing the drink.

The Pistons fans did their part. Ron Artest and Stephen Jackson did their part.


----------



## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>S-Star</b>!
> Regaurdless... Artest and Jackson made a DUMB move going into the crowd, JO made a DUMB move punching that guy in the face... It isn't justified at all... Simple as that... You guys sound like little kids! "WELL HE STARTED IT!!!!" What the hell are you people like 3 years old? It doesn't matter who STARTED it, they participated, they further escalated the situation, they deserve whatever punshiment they get...


Well, when you get a little older and don't feel the need to defend yourself and constantly turn the other cheek, you will more than likely take a few *** whippings in your lifetime, that could be averted. 

If nothing else, this will calm fans down, because they can see the repercussions of the throwing things. Do you want to have a 6'11 260 lb man laying a haymaker on you? So maybe, next time your buddy wants to throw some stuff, you'll say, hey remember those Pistons fans who got their asses kicked. I don't want to be like them. 

It's like when an celebrities bodyguards mess people up, because everyone seems to want to challenge a famous guy. He more than likely did it, because he didn't think anything would happen to him. Too bad he was wrong. Now because he couldn't stop himself, he cost NBA fans around the league, needing more security to protect them (from themselves no less) and got people hurt, as well as lost his season tickets forever and will be more than likely cited for inciting a riot.

Artest and Jackson will be suspended, but he will be back. For that fan, was all of that worth it. Was thinking he was too cool and causing all that worth it?


----------



## Spudd (Jun 20, 2004)

I think we all saw this coming but the 1 thing that annoys me is what David stern said:

Stern also said "rules and procedures relating to altercations and security have been undertaken so that fans can continue to attend our games unthreatened by events such as the ones that occurred last night.” 

David Stern is way outa line there i think. The players were the 1's threatened, if some1 throws a full cup or beer or water at a player's face from pointblank range then he should be willing to pay the consequences. Yes the players completely overreacted and they should be fined and suspended for it. But the fans are the 1's who initiated it, I dont see any mention there of the big guy who hit fred jones a few times?

If some1 swore at Artest and he attacked them its a different story, but a fan threw something at him while he was trying to avoid a fight anf then later another invaded the court. The fans should be to blame just as much if not more than the players.

I think if the players get yearly supsensions or something along the lines of that it is a complete injustice.
I dont care what people say but the fact remains, the players did not start the riots in the stand.


----------



## J19 (Nov 16, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>S-Star</b>!
> Regaurdless... Artest and Jackson made a DUMB move going into the crowd, JO made a DUMB move punching that guy in the face... It isn't justified at all... Simple as that... You guys sound like little kids! "WELL HE STARTED IT!!!!" What the hell are you people like 3 years old? It doesn't matter who STARTED it, they participated, they further escalated the situation, they deserve whatever punshiment they get...



You ***, everyone would of done the same, you get hit with a beer you're not going to do anything? Wow you're soft, good job not looking at this situation from a realist point, you expect every guy in the league to be Jesus


----------



## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>J19</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> You ***, everyone would of done the same, you get hit with a beer you're not going to do anything? Wow you're soft, good job not looking at this situation from a realist point, you expect every guy in the league to be Jesus


again, artest walked away from wallace, who grabbed his neck and pushed his face. disrespected to the max. and he walked away.


----------



## J19 (Nov 16, 2004)

lol , Wallace didnt even have his fist closed, he pushed Artest chest, do even kno what a punch is?


----------



## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>J19</b>!
> lol , Wallace didnt even have his fist closed, he pushed Artest chest, do even kno what a punch is?


lol, who said anything about a punch.

and try addressing the point. why is artest not soft for walking away from wallace, when you say he would have been soft for not confronting a fan who threw a cup of beer?


----------



## J19 (Nov 16, 2004)

artest never took his eye off of Wallace he stared him done, without making contact


He wasn't scared he just didnt hit Ben Wallace back


Hey man lets look it at like this, if the fan never threw that beer at Artest, how would this situation look like? Ben wallace would be the only fined, cause Artest made no contact after the play, he kept his cool and did nothing wrong.


Wallace deserves to be suspended the most games


----------



## el_Diablo (May 15, 2003)

> Wallace deserves to be suspended the most games


why? there is NO logic in this. was it somehow wallace's fault that artest, jackson and o'neal acted like idiots?


----------



## Burn (Feb 2, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>kflo</b>!
> 
> 
> lol, who said anything about a punch.
> ...


Athletes expect to get into skirmishes with other athletes. They do not expect to be pelted with drinks. His reaction to Wallace was "Been there, done that". His reaction to the fan throwing a drink at him was probably instinct borne out of schock. Its kind of like how I've thrown punches at dozens of people in my life who phyiscally threatened me without really thinking about it, yet always managed to avoid throwing a punch at my dad, even when he did something crazy and similar to other people who I thoughtlessly went after. At least that's my take on it.


----------



## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>J19</b>!
> artest never took his eye off of Wallace he stared him done, without making contact
> 
> 
> ...


before, you were essentially saying you're a big [edit] if you get hit with a beer and do nothing, but now you're saying it's sufficient to stare at someone when they physically confront you with their hands?


----------



## scapegoat (Feb 20, 2004)

The worst part about all of this, is that if the punishment for Jackson and Artest doesn't fit the crime, then players will continue to think that you can run into the stands to get fans that do stuff to you. One of those fans will be packing. And then you've got a lot of soul searching to do.


----------



## J19 (Nov 16, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>el_Diablo</b>!
> 
> 
> why? there is NO logic in this. was it somehow wallace's fault that artest, jackson and o'neal acted like idiots?



Did you even seen what Wallace tried to do to Artest? first he pushed him for no reason, He got fouled, and made a grunt and overreated and pushed Artest, then he continued to pace to Artest even with people holding Wallace back, Artest kept his cool and didnt even go in a fighting stance or throw up pucnhes, Artest kept it cool


Wallace still DIDNT STOP, and began to throw a towel at Artest, Wallace delayed the game and made a big scene


If he would of never overrated all these threads woudlnt exist, Ben Wallace is the reason for all this, he acted like a big sissy.


Even after Ben Wallace pushed Artest he should of stopped right there, but nah he continued to start more shyt


Ban Ben Wallace out of the NBA, if hes going to push anyone who fouls him, imagine what hes gonna do if its a flagrant or techinal or anythign else 


Ben Wallace isn't human, and doesn't deserve to be in a organization league like the NBA, send him down to the South Bronx or Harlem where he can really get physical and lose his life


this guy is a coward, and unsportsmanlike


----------



## J19 (Nov 16, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>kflo</b>!
> 
> 
> before, you were essentially saying you're a big [edit] if you get hit with a beer and do nothing, but now you're saying it's sufficient to stare at someone when they physically confront you with their hands?




Artest didnt run away, he stood there, the only thing that was keeping Artest from Wallace was the refs and the players


Artest kept it cool and layed on his back.


----------



## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Burn</b>!
> 
> 
> Athletes expect to get into skirmishes with other athletes. They do not expect to be pelted with drinks. His reaction to Wallace was "Been there, done that". His reaction to the fan throwing a drink at him was probably instinct borne out of schock. Its kind of like how I've thrown punches at dozens of people in my life who phyiscally threatened me without really thinking about it, yet always managed to avoid throwing a punch at my dad, even when he did something crazy and similar to other people who I thoughtlessly went after. At least that's my take on it.


i agree. he's also well aware of the penalty of a fight with another player. it's foremost in their minds. same with coming off the bench during a fight. and that's why the penalty here will be steep.


----------



## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>J19</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


are you serious here? the only thing keeping artest from wallace was artest.

could he have stared down the fan then? seems like the staredown is sufficient then to save face.


----------



## J19 (Nov 16, 2004)

dude its not like Artest backed up, Wallace pushed him and Artest stayed where he was, only thing that moved him was the players and ref Artest was infront of barirer of guys and Wallace was on the other side

If that Barirer wasnt there, and if Wallace threw a pucnh, a fight would of broke out obviously


----------



## IosimCash (Aug 6, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>kflo</b>!
> 
> 
> are you serious here? the only thing keeping artest from wallace was artest.
> ...


so your blaming artest for not starting a fight with wallace? *edited: Now you know that's not appropriate* One man can only take so much abuse, I dont blame artest in the bit. I woulda snapped too...and if i had the body artest did I wouldnt take it anymore either. 

Wallace and the scurity of the pallace....as well as pistons fans should be blamed for ALL of this.

The pistons should lose as many home games as the pacers lose artest and jackson for combined.


----------



## IosimCash (Aug 6, 2003)

the nba makes horible calls on artest. Remember the playoffs last year? There was a mini scirmish betwene blount and oneal...i think. Artest took 5 steps off the bench, and then ran back...and they gave him a game off. Stern is a jackass when it comes to interpreting his own laws.

The whole thing is a scam to see Shaq go to the finals


----------



## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>IosimCash</b>!
> the nba makes horible calls on artest. Remember the playoffs last year? There was a mini scirmish betwene blount and oneal...i think. Artest took 5 steps off the bench, and then ran back...and they gave him a game off. Stern is a jackass when it comes to interpreting his own laws.
> 
> The whole thing is a scam to see Shaq go to the finals


Uh-huh.

Stern probably planted that moron who threw the drink. Damn Stern!


----------



## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>J19</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hmm, I see an odd theme here... He "keeps his cool" when a guy bigger and stronger than he is is ready to obliterate him. But he can't "keep his cool" when a guy half his size throws something at him... Funky...


----------



## jibikao (Nov 14, 2004)

Artest should be kicked out of NBA. Yeah, Ben started it but Artest was lying there acting like an A-hole. He provoked the whole thing and he even has the guts to beat up the fans? The people who support NBA?? The people who pay his salary? WTF is he thinking? He tries to be special but beating up fans is totally wrong especially on a National Televised game. What image/message does this send to the fans? 

If Artest can just sit down and be cool with it (instead of pretending it!), the fans WILL NOT throw beer at him. 

PS: Didn't Artest want to promote his RAP album? I guess Pacers can grant his wish?? lol

Jimmy


----------



## AranhaHunter (Nov 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>S-Star</b>!
> 
> 
> Hmm, I see an odd theme here... He "keeps his cool" when a guy bigger and stronger than he is is ready to obliterate him. But he can't "keep his cool" when a guy half his size throws something at him... Funky...


That's what I've been saying all along. Does anyone here honestly think that Artest would've reacted the same way if it was Rip Hamilton or T. Prince shoved him? I laugh at you if you do. He saw Big Ben and thought to himself.
****, Im crazy, but not retarded.
Artest just pussied out and then bullied somebody.


----------



## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>kflo</b>!
> what wallace did was wrong, and he deserves a suspension, one consistent with other suspensions for a similar aggressive act


Antonio Davis only got three games for body slamming and punching Brenda Haywood.


----------



## 1 Penny (Jul 11, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>J19</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What kind of Bull**** is this.

Ben Wallace reacted harshly maybe because Artest fouled him hard and it actually hurt him. If you actually watched what happened Ben Wallace was fouled above the shoulder behind his head/neck aread. That would piss me off to if I was fouled hard.

All Ben Wallace did was put his frustration to an action, Artest is notorious for pulling fouls like this... Ben wasnt gonna have any of it.

Artest lying down on the announcers, even though he was just relaxing, that gave the impression of cockiness and arrogance. and given the amount of dickwads watching basketball these days, Artest was asking for stuff to be thrown at him.

He was crazy enough to actually hurt a fan. Any normal player, any normal professional would of laughed it off and pointed at the scoreboard maybe even taunting the crowd even more. But Artest jumped the fence and hurt someone in front of 10 000+ fans, Artest is one of the few who crossed the boundary between sportsmen and fans... this encourages fans of opposing teams to become aggressive to opposing teams.


----------



## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

Players Union wont have this


----------



## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>GB</b>!
> 
> 
> Antonio Davis only got three games for body slamming and punching Brenda Haywood.


Yeah okay Brendan punched him in the face 1st and stop talking about body slamming if you're talking about that little boy tackling move he did. 

And fat boy Curry was fascinated by Haywood's nutsack.

Haywood is better than Davis is now anyway he gets paid to ball not tackle or fight.


----------



## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BEEZ</b>!
> Players Union wont have this


http://www.basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?postid=1662307#post1662307


----------

