# KG is better then duncan



## Deke (Jul 27, 2005)

i dont want to go into a long post right now but now that rings are out of the argument, i dont see how you can say kg isnt the best pf today. hes as good/better defensively. better jump shooter/ better rebounder. better passer. and led his team past a team that raped the spurs.


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

dont start this pleeeaaasssee

at least not yet lol
let the fans enjoy him getting his ring before people come here blasting this as rediculous


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## Redeemed (Feb 2, 2008)

One word: no


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## hi im new (Jul 4, 2005)

three words: no way jose


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

I dont think the gap is as big as people make it out to be. These two players are right on par with each other......Duncan has 4 rings, ok, but KG gets a good cast around him, and what do you know, he wins a ring too......Duncan is a great player, sure, but so is KG. Just to balance out the votes I will go ahead n say yes.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

They are very close, but I think because of Duncans consistant, boring, robot like play, he is will be remembered as the better of the two.


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## GrandKenyon6 (Jul 19, 2005)

It's not even remotely close. To even mention Garnett in the same sentence as Tim Duncan is an insult of the highest degree. Duncan is worlds better.


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## Plastic Man (Nov 8, 2004)

No.


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## Chan Ho Nam (Jan 9, 2007)

i would put Duncan over KG

he is better defensively at least one on one, though not as athletic he can keep a big man from posting up as we saw so many times Pau got in a bit too easily

He is also better in the Post up imo , KG uses the turn around a lot though very effective

I would put Duncan a few hairs ahead simply b/c his 1v1 defense is better


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

I think Duncans game is easier to build around, its more fundamentally sound for his position and is going to make him have more consistent performances...

that being said on a sheer TALENT level they are equal, with the right pieces KG can get it done, much like duncan has


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## Futurama_Fanatic (Jul 21, 2005)

i thought ballscientist wrote this thread lol


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## Fray (Dec 19, 2005)

It's definately closer than some make it out to be. Especially if you're only talking about right now. Currently Duncan is in his decline while KG is still in his prime.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

GrandKenyon6 said:


> It's not even remotely close. To even mention Garnett in the same sentence as Tim Duncan is an insult of the highest degree. Duncan is worlds better.


Yea, it is close. Duncan still wins out, but its not like its insane to say KG is only a few steps from what a prime Duncan was.


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## NewAgeBaller (Jan 8, 2007)

Its definately close (minus the fact that Duncan has a better record of winning), but I'd still put Duncan over him. Very close though, and depending on the team, some would even prefer KG.


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## Mizzak (Jun 15, 2008)

This is all true.

If Big Ticket helps the Beans get that #18 then - we have a serious contest.

But I still can't believe how so many guys put Duncan over Mailman...I just don't get it.


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## sonicFLAME6 (Dec 19, 2006)

Wait, how many rings does Timmy have? There's your answer.


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

Undefeated82 said:


> Wait, how many rings does Timmy have? There's your answer.


really? ok darko>lebron

you need to base comparison on more than rings sometimes


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Mizzak said:


> This is all true.
> 
> If Big Ticket helps the Beans get that #18 then - we have a serious contest.
> 
> But I still can't believe how so many guys put Duncan over Mailman...I just don't get it.


Mailman is under appreciated these days. I still think its a head to head battle between those two for top 4 of all time.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Avalanche said:


> really? ok darko>lebron
> 
> you need to base comparison on more than rings sometimes


Darko is a scrub, Lebron is the franchise. Not really a good comparison to the Duncan has more rings than KG argument.


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

R-Star said:


> Darko is a scrub, Lebron is the franchise. Not really a good comparison to the Duncan has more rings than KG argument.


i know man i was just making a point... not necissarily with those particular players though


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## Mizzak (Jun 15, 2008)

R-Star said:


> Mailman is under appreciated these days. I still think its a head to head battle between those two for top 4 of all time.


Well, far as I'm concerned, level that Mailman played @, and amount of years he played that way makes him EASY the best power forward all time as far as I'm concerned.

He was just unfortunate to play in the 90's due to certain players hanging around in the league at the time


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## sonicFLAME6 (Dec 19, 2006)

Avalanche said:


> really? ok darko>lebron
> 
> you need to base comparison on more than rings sometimes


Yeah and Horry is the bette then Jordan, you know what I ment, let's not kid ourselves, KG no way.


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## sonicFLAME6 (Dec 19, 2006)

Mizzak said:


> Well, far as I'm concerned, level that Mailman played @, and amount of years he played that way makes him EASY the best power forward all time as far as I'm concerned.
> 
> He was just unfortunate to play in the 90's due to certain players hanging around in the league at the time


KG is a choker. He's lucky to have Pierce save his *** all series. I still think he's a loser, now he's just a loser with a ring.


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## Mizzak (Jun 15, 2008)

Well guys I think we overlooked one main thing here...




Deke said:


> i dont see how you can say kg isnt the best pf today.


Today = yes

Overall = not yet


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## Mizzak (Jun 15, 2008)

Undefeated82 said:


> KG is a choker. He's lucky to have Pierce save his *** all series. I still think he's a loser, now he's just a loser with a ring.


Vent, vent, vent


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## sonicFLAME6 (Dec 19, 2006)

Mizzak said:


> Vent, vent, vent


I'm really not venting. I don't get mad about a game. Everyone has their opinion and mine hasn't changed about KG. just because I am a Laker fan doesn't mean I will homer them, I always root for teams with players I like, the Lakers are my main team, but I still like others. I don't dislike KG at all, I think he's good, but he's a choker.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Avalanche said:


> i know man i was just making a point... not necissarily with those particular players though


I know, Im just an *******. I agree, you cant cut the argument down to just "who has more rings." This is KG's first year with a comparable supporting cast to Duncans.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

KG has like 3 more rings to win to get in the discussion with Duncan. And Duncan was the driving force behind all the Spurs championships--KG got his *** carried by Paul Pierce in almost every game that mattered. Remember when Tim Duncan dropped that quiet near quad double against the Nets to win the title? There's a stack of games like that, that KG has no answer for yet. KG has yet to take over a playoff game the way Duncan has in his career to this point. Duncan is, I believe, the greatest PF of all-time. KG was at one time in the discussion with Duncan. Not anymore. You honestly think the C's are going to win 3 more championships? They are too old, and the rest of the league isn't going to stay static.


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## Spaceman Spiff (Aug 2, 2006)

Talentwise, KG is a better player. Duncan is the better player mentality. KG, despite is greatness, still backs down on the big stages. Duncan would dominate like crazy when it matters.


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## SlamJam (Nov 27, 2004)

this year? yes, kg was better than duncan.

for their careers, it's still duncan.


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## SlamJam (Nov 27, 2004)

and come on people, do a little more than the titles arguments. you're better than that.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

Undefeated82 said:


> Wait, how many rings does Timmy have? There's your answer.


So in ur opinion, Robby Horry is GOAT.....



futuristxen said:


> KG has like 3 more rings to win to get in the discussion with Duncan. And Duncan was the driving force behind all the Spurs championships--KG got his *** carried by Paul Pierce in almost every game that mattered. Remember when Tim Duncan dropped that quiet near quad double against the Nets to win the title? There's a stack of games like that, that KG has no answer for yet. KG has yet to take over a playoff game the way Duncan has in his career to this point. Duncan is, I believe, the greatest PF of all-time. KG was at one time in the discussion with Duncan. Not anymore. You honestly think the C's are going to win 3 more championships? They are too old, and the rest of the league isn't going to stay static.


Um, KG was the MVP of game 6....are you saying game 6 didnt matter.... Lets talk about how he straight up shut down Sheed in the ECF and anchor'd the best D in the league(ala what was said about Duncan and the Spurs D for so many years). And it's laughable the extent that people exaggerate him getting "carried". 

Just look at him for what he is.....A Great TEAM Player, and good players players feed off of his energy skillset. He is every bit as good as Duncan defensively(i believe this regardless of what anybody says) and offensively he is more diverse, yet equally efficient, and also a better FT shooter, etc..... In the playoffs he averaged 20 & 10(thats hardly getting carried). I remember Tony Parker dominating last years Finals......I wouldn't even seriously go out and say that he carried Duncan tho, just becuz Duncan wasn't the finals MVP. Individually, They play different styles but they ultimately get the same results. KG just finally has players next to him who know how & when to make plays off of him ala Manu and TP. Having an opinion is fine, but to say that it is not even close, imo, is just ignorant. eace:


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## SlamJam (Nov 27, 2004)

Blue Magic said:


> Um, KG was the MVP of game 6....are you saying game 6 didnt matter.... Lets talk about how he straight up shut down Sheed in the ECF and anchor'd the best D in the league(ala what was said about Duncan and the Spurs D for so many years). And it's laughable the extent that people exaggerate him getting "carried".
> 
> Just look at him for what he is.....A Great TEAM Player, and good players players feed off of his energy skillset. He is every bit as good as Duncan defensively(i believe this regardless of what anybody says) and offensively he is more diverse, yet equally efficient, and also a better FT shooter, etc..... In the playoffs he averaged 20 & 10(thats hardly getting carried). I remember Tony Parker dominating last years Finals......I wouldn't even seriously go out and say that he carried Duncan tho, just becuz Duncan wasn't the finals MVP. Individually, They play different styles but they ultimately get the same results. KG just finally has players next to him who know how & when to make plays off of him ala Manu and TP. Having an opinion is fine, but to say that it is not even close, imo, is just ignorant. eace:


agreed. KG was easily boston's best player in the playoffs.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

I disagree. Paul Pierce was Boston's best player for this entire playoffs.


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## SlamJam (Nov 27, 2004)

playoffs - 

KG - 20.4 ppg, 10.5 rpg, 3.3 apg, 50% FG, 81% FT
Pierce - 19.7 ppg, 5 rpg, 4.6 apg, 44% FG, 80% FT

and this doesn't even include defense. i agree that pierce picked it up on D in the playoffs, but KG's still on another level there.


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## JerryWest (Jun 24, 2002)

This thread is a joke. KG wasn't even the best player in his sole ring. Pierce carried the Celtics by far. Just because KG jumps up and down and screams a lot while cursing doesn't make him better.


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## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

GrandKenyon6 said:


> It's not even remotely close. To even mention Garnett in the same sentence as Tim Duncan is an insult of the highest degree. Duncan is worlds better.


They are basically even as players skillwise and their production. Tim Duncan has the edge because he has 4 titles to KG's one. It's like comparing Dan Marino and John Elway. The stats are kind of similar but Elway has the two superbowl titles. That's the difference. Duncan has 4 titles KG has one. I can you see you making an argument for Duncan being better but worlds better thats just ridiculous.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

bball2223 said:


> They are basically even as players skillwise and their production. Tim Duncan has the edge because he has 4 titles to KG's one. It's like comparing Dan Marino and John Elway. The stats are kind of similar but Elway has the two superbowl titles. That's the difference. Duncan has 4 titles KG has one. I can you see you making an argument for Duncan being better but worlds better thats just ridiculous.


The difference is also in how they play. Duncan plays out of the post, and is more authorative in the game. KG is more passive and likes to shoot 15 footers. Just the way Duncan plays is immaculate perfection. Not a wasted motion in the entire thing. KG is all wasted motion. Just in terms of watching someone who is great at their craft, Duncan is so much more rewarding to examine. There's subtle folds to his game that aren't there with KG. They could put up exactly the same stats, and I'd take Duncan by a fair margin, just because of how he does his thing. I could watch Tim just grab rebounds all day and throw outlet passes. And the results are outstanding.

KG just doesn't have the history. We'll see maybe the later part of KG's career will be a renaissance, but you can't just wipe out what Duncan has done in one year. Even the years Duncan didn't win titles he was right there contending for them.


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## someone (Jul 17, 2007)

ah crap, he's back :sigh:


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

futuristxen said:


> KG has like 3 more rings to win to get in the discussion with Duncan. And Duncan was the driving force behind all the Spurs championships--KG got his *** carried by Paul Pierce in almost every game that mattered. Remember when Tim Duncan dropped that quiet near quad double against the Nets to win the title? There's a stack of games like that, that KG has no answer for yet. KG has yet to take over a playoff game the way Duncan has in his career to this point. Duncan is, I believe, the greatest PF of all-time. KG was at one time in the discussion with Duncan. Not anymore. You honestly think the C's are going to win 3 more championships? They are too old, and the rest of the league isn't going to stay static.


Someones got the "Lebron just got knocked out of the playoffs again" blues.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

R-Star said:


> Someones got the "Lebron just got knocked out of the playoffs again" blues.


That's a bit of a non-sequitor, no?


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## Roscoe Sheed (Jun 19, 2006)

they play different positions, so you can't really compare them. KG is a PF. Duncan is a C. It has been this way for about five years now


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## Miracles (May 12, 2008)

Deke said:


> i dont want to go into a long post right now but now that rings are out of the argument, i dont see how you can say kg isnt the best pf today. hes as good/better defensively. better jump shooter/ better rebounder. better passer. and led his team past a team that raped the spurs.


Really? :laugh: -willieblack-


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

Duncan is a post player.You give him the ball and teams double him.He always makes the correct decision when you double him.That's the reason that the Spurs have contended for the title every single year he's played for San Antonio.Whether you like the term or not he makes everyone around him better,or precisely he makes everyone on the court with him open.


SHow me some tape of KG drawing one double team in these finals.Or you could show us tape of him taking a 20 foot jumper if that's not an option.Perhaps show me some tape of the other coach running a defense designed to stop Kevin Garnett.I guarantee you can't find any tape where the opposing coach hasn't designed his defense to stop Duncan first,second and last.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

futuristxen said:


> That's a bit of a non-sequitor, no?


Nope. Its very sequitor, not non-sequitor.


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## torr (Jul 25, 2005)

KG is a great player but him and Duncan aren't on the same level. Duncan is way better.
Who knows if the curse stands we'll see the spurs in the finals next year who know probably
against the celtics.


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## kirov (Jun 9, 2003)

no.


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## Adol (Nov 25, 2004)

Duncan is the better player, even though I firmly believe they play different positions (center/pf). 

What I don't think people take into account is the fact that Duncan has always played with a winning franchise and had great pieces around him and a staff that knew what they were doing. 

People say Duncan was the leader of his championship teams, and granted, he was, but remember that he led those teams when he was younger. The last title he won Manu was the MVP. I think you put a prime, younger Kevin on the C's and he takes MVP. Given both of Kevin and Tim's ages though, I don't think either will win a finals MVP again. They are both anchors to their defense first and foremost. 

I think some people, no matter what, will always rip on KG because they're just haters, plain and simple. I'm glad he got his ring so he can rub it in all their faces.


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## Roscoe Sheed (Jun 19, 2006)

^
Parker won the finals MVP in 07


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## Adol (Nov 25, 2004)

Oh right, my bad, thanks. My point stands though.


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## tone wone (Jan 30, 2003)

Diable said:


> Duncan is a post player.You give him the ball and teams double him.He always makes the correct decision when you double him.That's the reason that the Spurs have contended for the title every single year he's played for San Antonio.Whether you like the term or not he makes everyone around him better,or precisely he makes everyone on the court with him open.
> 
> 
> SHow me some tape of KG drawing one double team in these finals.Or you could show us tape of him taking a 20 foot jumper if that's not an option.Perhaps show me some tape of the other coach running a defense designed to stop Kevin Garnett.I guarantee you can't find any tape where the opposing coach hasn't designed his defense to stop Duncan first,second and last.


So, Garnett draws NO defensive attention???

Garnett has been atleast Duncan's equal since 2003 but they haven't played the same position since 2004. Comparing them is mute cause their style of play is different at both ends. Yes, I consider Duncan to be the best interior defender in the league but Garnett's range on D is just as important, IMO. The only thing about Duncan's game I wish Garnett had...since becoming a MVP level player is his ability to get to the line.

Pierce and Allen have a great finals and it devalues Garnett but last year Parker and Ginobili carry SA offensively but Duncan's 15ppg adds to his legacy???


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

First, we're not talking about resumes, or past statlines, or team success when you're talking *individual* comparisions, so stop it. It's one man's skill vs. another's.

Bottomline, I still go with Duncan because he's more consistently effective in the post. KG is what, 31, and he still has moments offensively where he loses his identity.

Duncan is as good an overrall defender as KG, though he can't guard as many positions as Garnett...but offensively, he's just about better in every facet besides ballhandling, which is pretty insignificants.

That said, you can't go wrong with either. We waste more time arguing either or between players with negligible difference and incredible impact...and for what?


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## Deke (Jul 27, 2005)

im not saying kg has had a better career, i am saying kg is better today. gasol scored just as much on duncan as he did on kg, and kgs team dominates the team that raped duncan.


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## Adol (Nov 25, 2004)

Not to be a dick, but it's "better THAN Duncan", not then.


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## Coatesvillain (Jul 17, 2002)

Adol said:


> Not to be a dick, but it's "better THAN Duncan", not then.


Maybe deke is ahead of the game.

Perhaps he's setting up a word problem: "If Garnett >> X, what is Duncan in relation to Garnett?

A.)Garnett >> Duncan
B.)Duncan >> Garnett
C.)Not enough information


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## OneBadLT123 (Oct 4, 2005)

My goodness what has this board come to? If you asked this discussion last season, this type of thread would have had Duncan written all over it. 

Now that KG FINALLY wins a ring, hes on the same level as Duncan? Come on now, I know its nice to see him win, but lets not get ahead of ourselves here. Talent wise I would say they are the same, but career wise it isn't even close. 



futuristxen said:


> KG has like 3 more rings to win to get in the discussion with Duncan. And Duncan was the driving force behind all the Spurs championships--KG got his *** carried by Paul Pierce in almost every game that mattered. Remember when Tim Duncan dropped that quiet near quad double against the Nets to win the title? There's a stack of games like that, that KG has no answer for yet. KG has yet to take over a playoff game the way Duncan has in his career to this point. Duncan is, I believe, the greatest PF of all-time. KG was at one time in the discussion with Duncan. Not anymore. You honestly think the C's are going to win 3 more championships? They are too old, and the rest of the league isn't going to stay static.


As futuristxen couldnt have said it any better. I have always been a strong fan of KG, but even now, still I cant say he is any better than Duncan. I really wonder if half of Celtic fans really watched him in Minnesota. (I know a few of you guys moved over to the Celtic board)

Seriously, lets not lose perception of reality here. Duncan won rings as the main chip, whereas KG lost in the first round.


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## Adol (Nov 25, 2004)

That's an over simplification.


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## someone (Jul 17, 2007)

OneBadLT123 said:


> My goodness what has this board come to?


It's Deke, not the whole board.


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

Adol said:


> That's an over simplification.


agreed... a waay over simplification, look at the talent Garnett played with in Minny, he actually did a great job with what he was given


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## MLKG (Aug 25, 2003)

futuristxen said:


> The difference is also in how they play. Duncan plays out of the post, and is more authorative in the game. KG is more passive and likes to shoot 15 footers. Just the way Duncan plays is immaculate perfection. Not a wasted motion in the entire thing. KG is all wasted motion. Just in terms of watching someone who is great at their craft, Duncan is so much more rewarding to examine. There's subtle folds to his game that aren't there with KG. They could put up exactly the same stats, and I'd take Duncan by a fair margin, just because of how he does his thing. I could watch Tim just grab rebounds all day and throw outlet passes. And the results are outstanding.


That is a load of bull****.

Before the rings ended the argument after Duncan got his 3rd, comparing the two was not at all unreasonable. Back during the Lakers dynasty, I always reguarded Garnett as a better player.

Over the last 4 years in Minnesota, he got labeled a lot of things that weren't true. Duncan has never in his career had to play with the kind of players KG had to put up with.

The only difference between Duncan and Garnett is demeanor. KG does all the same little things that Duncan does.

I love Tim Duncan, but watching the two play in the playoffs this year, there is absolutely no question as to who the better player is at this stage in their careers (it's not Tim).


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## sonicFLAME6 (Dec 19, 2006)

Undefeated82 said:


> Yeah and Horry is the bette then Jordan, you know what I ment, let's not kid ourselves, KG no way.





Blue Magic said:


> So in ur opinion, Robby Horry is GOAT.....


Actually I don't, if you would of read through my first posts you would have noticed the answer to your question. eace:



HKF said:


> I disagree. Paul Pierce was Boston's best player for this entire playoffs.


I agree

There's no way KG is on Duncan's level no matter how you compare their stats. Duncan is a better defender and offensive weapon. Duncan has been been top 10 MVP candidate every season for his career and that's no fluke.
This thread should have a poll, how many of you guys would really take KG over Duncan?


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## someone (Jul 17, 2007)

Duncan is number 1 and KG is number 2, yes?


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

they've always been pretty neck and neck, with Duncan playing on better teams.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

MLKG said:


> That is a load of bull****.
> 
> Before the rings ended the argument after Duncan got his 3rd, comparing the two was not at all unreasonable. Back during the Lakers dynasty, I always reguarded Garnett as a better player.
> 
> ...


repped. :clap:



Undefeated82 said:


> Actually I don't, if you would of read through my first posts you would have noticed the answer to your question.
> 
> There's no way KG is on Duncan's level no matter how you compare their stats. Duncan is a better defender and offensive weapon. Duncan has been been top 10 MVP candidate every season for his career and that's no fluke.
> This thread should have a poll, how many of you guys would really take KG over Duncan?


How is there *"no way"* KG's on Duncan's level.......That is just ignorant to make a claim like that. KG's game is more versatile, he's a better FT shooter, every bit as good of a passer, & their career FG% favors Duncan by maybe 1% if I recall correctly. Defensively, they both bring different aspects to the table but are both anchors to some of the best defenses in recent, maybe even league, history (with KG's current team being, yes, *better *in this aspect)....How does all of this add up to Duncan's miles ahead of KG??? It doesn't. You just base individual talent and impact solely on a players ring count....that logic doesn't necessarily apply everywhere. KG played in a dump for 12 years(a place that made mistake, after mistake, after mistake), while Duncan played for a class organization that actually knew what they were doing since the day he got there(A place that had him playing alongside HoF David Robinson from day one. So like I said, by you logic Robert Horry is the GOAT.



liekomgj4ck said:


> Duncan is number 1 and KG is number 2, yes?


You would probably be more apt to say, Duncan is # 1(a) & KG # 1(b).


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## hroz (Mar 4, 2006)

How many FINALS MVP does TD have? How many does KG have?

KG will have to lift his game at the end of his career if he wants to compete.
(Mailman was considered a worse player than Barkley but Barkley succumbed to injuries late in his career and the Mailman came on strong so most people consider the Mailman a better player now). KG has to lift like the Mailman lifted. 

Right now I would go
Duncan
Barkley
Malone
Garnett

Though I think the popular opinion is:
Duncan
Malone
Barkley+Garnett(not sure how people see these two)


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

Duncan
Garnett
Malone
Barkley

We are watching and have been for the last few years the best 2 power forwards ever.. people just dont like to admit it, that they are better then childhood heroes


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## Deke (Jul 27, 2005)

again this is not better career, this is better today. i will admit td is the greatest pf ever.

and if you REALLY want to go into rings even when mentioning today, then why is chris paul considered better then dwayne wade?


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

OOOOOO so we're doing it as who is better "today". Well today is thursday. KG is probably hung over from celebrating the championship, and Duncan is all rested up. I'm going with Duncan.

And the championship arguement in between these two is just the simplified way of doing this arguement, because it's the only way some people will understand that Duncan is the best PF ever. Garnett is a top all-time PF as well, so it looks close. But if you just watch the two of them play, it's night and day. KG is louder and more boisterous, but his game is fadeaways and jumpers. He doesn't go into the teeth of the defense and get it done consistently, especially towards the end of games. You can't build a team around KG and win a championship unless you put superstars around him, one of which, like Paul Pierce, has to be willing to be the man, because KG is not the man. He's the Scottie Pippen of Power Forwards. Which is great. But with Duncan we're talking about a Larry Bird type of personality and game. Duncan wants the ball in his hands to decide the game. And the shots he takes in those situations are high percentage. He's also a little more refined than KG in terms of his defense. I think they are close there because of KG's athleticism(Duncan is really athletic too) but Duncan has the edge because he is always in the right spot on defense.

Everyone knows the Spurs never win a title in an off year. But watch out next year.

But yeah just in term of how he approaches the game, and how he plays it, I rate Duncan higher than KG. I rate Duncan the highest of the PF's I've seen in my life which include Malone and Barkley. I do think KG is as good as Malone and Barkley probably though. But I gotta take the Chuckster.

I'd rank them:
Duncan
Barkley
KG
Malone

But there's some bias there because I hate Karl Malone, and feel that a lot of his career he owes to Sloan and Stockton(who I think is a genius).


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## sonicFLAME6 (Dec 19, 2006)

futuristxen said:


> OOOOOO so we're doing it as who is better "today". Well today is thursday. KG is probably hung over from celebrating the championship, and Duncan is all rested up. I'm going with Duncan.
> 
> And the championship arguement in between these two is just the simplified way of doing this arguement, because it's the only way some people will understand that Duncan is the best PF ever. Garnett is a top all-time PF as well, so it looks close. But if you just watch the two of them play, it's night and day. KG is louder and more boisterous, but his game is fadeaways and jumpers. He doesn't go into the teeth of the defense and get it done consistently, especially towards the end of games. You can't build a team around KG and win a championship unless you put superstars around him, one of which, like Paul Pierce, has to be willing to be the man, because KG is not the man. He's the Scottie Pippen of Power Forwards. Which is great. But with Duncan we're talking about a Larry Bird type of personality and game. Duncan wants the ball in his hands to decide the game. And the shots he takes in those situations are high percentage. He's also a little more refined than KG in terms of his defense. I think they are close there because of KG's athleticism(Duncan is really athletic too) but Duncan has the edge because he is always in the right spot on defense.
> 
> ...


At-least some around here get it. Hence why I don't buy into KG's hoopla. He's not a consistent go to guy. Defensively he's top notch, but he can't carry the whole load of a contender to a championship, hence the 7 straight first round exits prior to making the WCF.
Deke basically made a thread and adds exceptions to make it pro KG. "Today as in Today because the C's won the tittle so that means Today KG is better then Duncan because Duncan has been fishing for weeks," I find it quite comical.


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## tone wone (Jan 30, 2003)

This isn't 2002...Duncan's not "carrying the load" offensively. In 3 years the Spurs have had 3 different leading scorers(Parker '06, Duncan '07 & Manu '08) and 2 finals MVPs. Pierce carried Garnett??? So explain Tony Parkers higher scoring avg and FG%% in these playoffs...

Parker 22.4ppg 49%
Duncan 20.2ppg 45%

Tony Parker carried Tim Duncan to the WCF, right???


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## someone (Jul 17, 2007)

futuristxen said:


> OOOOOO so we're doing it as who is better "today". Well today is thursday. KG is probably hung over from celebrating the championship, and Duncan is all rested up. I'm going with Duncan.
> 
> And the championship arguement in between these two is just the simplified way of doing this arguement, because it's the only way some people will understand that Duncan is the best PF ever. Garnett is a top all-time PF as well, so it looks close. But if you just watch the two of them play, it's night and day. KG is louder and more boisterous, but his game is fadeaways and jumpers. He doesn't go into the teeth of the defense and get it done consistently, especially towards the end of games. You can't build a team around KG and win a championship unless you put superstars around him, one of which, like Paul Pierce, has to be willing to be the man, because KG is not the man. He's the Scottie Pippen of Power Forwards. Which is great. But with Duncan we're talking about a Larry Bird type of personality and game. Duncan wants the ball in his hands to decide the game. And the shots he takes in those situations are high percentage. He's also a little more refined than KG in terms of his defense. I think they are close there because of KG's athleticism(Duncan is really athletic too) but Duncan has the edge because he is always in the right spot on defense.
> 
> ...


Great read! Where do you think Rodman is in that list?


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## SlamJam (Nov 27, 2004)

futuristxen said:


> You can't build a team around KG and win a championship unless you put superstars around him, one of which, like Paul Pierce, has to be willing to be the man, because KG is not the man.


so "the man" can only be the one who puts up points? kg wasn't willing to be the man when he was the foundation of one of the great defenses in recent history? seriously, some of you need to stop with this superficial thinking. 

btw, kg averaged more ppg than pierce in the playoffs. and unless if the threshold has really dropped, pierce isn't a superstar.



> He's the Scottie Pippen of Power Forwards. Which is great.


pippen's a pretty good comparison in terms of style. pippen was a poor man's kg, and pippen was pretty darn good.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

liekomgj4ck said:


> Great read! Where do you think Rodman is in that list?


Uh...he's not on it. Rodman is one of the best rebounding and defensive forwards in the history of the game, but he's kind of a specialist, and Barkley made his point when he went to Houston and averaged 20 rebounds by focusing just on rebounding, which is that the round mound could rebound with Dennis if that's all he focused on. Rodman was very great, don't get me wrong, his fist full of rings says a lot. But he's not better than Malone,KG, Duncan, or Barkley or McHale or if I'm going to keep going Kemp(Seattle years). And that's just guys from around his era.

I'd put him ahead of Chris Webber, but like in that range.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

SlamJam said:


> so "the man" can only be the one who puts up points? kg wasn't willing to be the man when he was the foundation of one of the great defenses in recent history? seriously, some of you need to stop with this superficial thinking.
> 
> btw, kg averaged more ppg than pierce in the playoffs. and unless if the threshold has really dropped, pierce isn't a superstar.


I'm not going to argue that Paul Pierce is better than KG. But it's like in Detroit. Sheed is the best player on that team. But the guy who wins them games when everything is notted is Billups. But you can say, Billups wouldn't get those opportunities without the little things Sheed does. True, but history skews towards the brave. And when we consider that between KG and Duncan, Duncan does all of the little things that KG does, and maybe a little more AND he's got that Billups in him--that edges it for him. I've seen Duncan orchestrating far too many games, big games, important games, to throw KG over him on a whim. It's so short sighted to do that when we are talking about a player that many think may be the greatest power forward of all-time.




> pippen's a pretty good comparison in terms of style. pippen was a poor man's kg, and pippen was pretty darn good.


No doubt. It's a shame that Paul Pierce is the closest KG ever got to playing with a Jordan.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

Barkley
Duncan
KG
Mailman


Or by ring count...mo like


Horry
Rodman
Duncan
Otis Thorpe
KG


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## mrsister (Sep 9, 2002)

SlamJam said:


> btw, kg averaged more ppg than pierce in the playoffs. and unless if the threshold has really dropped, pierce isn't a superstar.


Pierce just doesn't seem to get the love no matter what he does. He's a 6 time All-Star, NBA champion, and Finals MVP on a team with KG and Ray Allen. He's one of the best all around players in the game. He outplayed Kobe Bryant and Lebron James in the playoffs. He may not score the points he used to, but with the guys he plays with, he shouldn't have to. His defense, assists, and rebounding are just as important. Maybe he's not as flashy as other superstars, but he gets the job done.


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## jericho (Jul 12, 2002)

futuristxen said:


> I'd rank them:
> Duncan
> Barkley
> KG
> Malone


I think there's a case to be made for putting those four four in any order. Pettit and Hayes clearly round out the top six; I don't think there's anyone else to consider. Guys like Nowitzki, Webber, Haywood, Rodman, McGinnis, etc., deserve mention but are a tier or two below.


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## 1 Penny (Jul 11, 2003)

For the people who takes KG over Duncan....

I just dont get it anymore... seriously.


People still doubt Duncan over any big men today?

And Pierce is the Celtics best player.


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

I always let the opposing coaches tell me who the best players are.It's pretty simple.If the other coach doesn't do anything special because you're on the other team,then you aren't that good.When the other coach devotes all his energy to stopping you that means you're great.The idiotic Tony Parker argument is symbolic of how little this is understood.I've seen Tony Parker play without Tim Duncan...Which is to say Tony Parker playing five on five basketball.He's nothing special whatsoever.Go get some tape of France's National Team and tell me that Tony Parker is better than Duncan.


Everyone is good when they're playing five on four...And the opposing coaches have been sending two at Timmy for a very long time.Byron Scott was sending three at him a couple weeks ago.


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## Deke (Jul 27, 2005)

the celtics have a big 3, the spurs have a big 3. kg is the one with a championship this year.


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## mqtcelticsfan (Apr 2, 2006)

Diable said:


> I always let the opposing coaches tell me who the best players are.It's pretty simple.If the other coach doesn't do anything special because you're on the other team,then you aren't that good.When the other coach devotes all his energy to stopping you that means you're great.The idiotic Tony Parker argument is symbolic of how little this is understood.I've seen Tony Parker play without Tim Duncan...Which is to say Tony Parker playing five on five basketball.He's nothing special whatsoever.Go get some tape of France's National Team and tell me that Tony Parker is better than Duncan.


Offensively this works, but KG changes the game with his defense.


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## mqtcelticsfan (Apr 2, 2006)

hroz said:


> How many FINALS MVP does TD have? How many does KG have?
> 
> KG will have to lift his game at the end of his career if he wants to compete.


Base a player's ability to play basketball on 4-7 games. What a great idea.


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## LamarButler (Apr 16, 2005)

I love Garnett, but I take Duncan for sure. Garnett looked shook in tight situations in big games, while Duncan is a guy you can always look to for a huge game when the pressure is on. And also, Duncan plays inside, drawing doubles and opening up the floor for everybody.


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## someone (Jul 17, 2007)

1 Penny said:


> For the people who takes KG over Duncan....
> 
> I just dont get it anymore... seriously.
> 
> ...


The thread was started by Deke, who was banned for a month


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## someone (Jul 17, 2007)

futuristxen said:


> Uh...he's not on it. Rodman is one of the best rebounding and defensive forwards in the history of the game, but he's kind of a specialist, and Barkley made his point when he went to Houston and averaged 20 rebounds by focusing just on rebounding, which is that the round mound could rebound with Dennis if that's all he focused on. Rodman was very great, don't get me wrong, his fist full of rings says a lot. But he's not better than Malone,KG, Duncan, or Barkley or McHale or if I'm going to keep going Kemp(Seattle years). And that's just guys from around his era.
> 
> I'd put him ahead of Chris Webber, but like in that range.


So he IS on the list, just like number 7 or 8? That's all I was asking.


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## SlamJam (Nov 27, 2004)

futuristxen said:


> I'm not going to argue that Paul Pierce is better than KG. But it's like in Detroit. Sheed is the best player on that team. But the guy who wins them games when everything is notted is Billups.


that was my point - why is scoring the only thing that matters in crunch time? defense, rebounding, passing down? you think ray allen scores that layup at the end of game game 4 if kg is providing help d instead of gasol? 

i kind of see your point about the comparison, except the difference between kg and pierce is much more than between those two.



> And when we consider that between KG and Duncan, Duncan does all of the little things that KG does, and maybe a little more AND he's got that Billups in him--that edges it for him. I've seen Duncan orchestrating far too many games, big games, important games, to throw KG over him on a whim. It's so short sighted to do that when we are talking about a player that many think may be the greatest power forward of all-time.


i agree duncan has been the better player, and for the reasons you mention. but when people start talking about pierce being the celtics best player or kg being carried by pierce/allen, its when it starts to get pretty ignorant. 



mrsister said:


> Pierce just doesn't seem to get the love no matter what he does. He's a 6 time All-Star, NBA champion, and Finals MVP on a team with KG and Ray Allen. He's one of the best all around players in the game. He outplayed Kobe Bryant and Lebron James in the playoffs. He may not score the points he used to, but with the guys he plays with, he shouldn't have to. His defense, assists, and rebounding are just as important. Maybe he's not as flashy as other superstars, but he gets the job done.


that's all nice, but i didn't say he wasn't an excellent player, i said he wasn't a superstar. to me that list is lebron, kobe, kg, duncan, paul.


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## TakaraJinRoh (Nov 27, 2007)

Ahhhh, I love this. KG is the flavor of the month and for many more to come until the 08-09 season begins.


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## GrandKenyon6 (Jul 19, 2005)

It's incredible how after so long, many of you still don't understand how good Tim Duncan is and what he does for his team. This isn't even remotely close.


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## Sunsfan81 (Apr 17, 2006)

Not all-time he's not. In fact it's not even close. Duncan is an immortal player who impacted the game in big spots offensively and defensively. Garnett is a great player and deserving Hall of Famer but not a great offensive player and go-to guy. Garnett showed that in this series. He was probably the third best player on his team in the Finals.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

GrandKenyon6 said:


> *It's incredible how after so long, many of you still don't understand how good Tim Duncan is and what he does for his team.* This isn't even remotely close.


Same thing can be said for KG, bud.


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## GrandKenyon6 (Jul 19, 2005)

Blue Magic said:


> Same thing can be said for KG, bud.


Uh, no, it can't.


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## mqtcelticsfan (Apr 2, 2006)

GrandKenyon6 said:


> Uh, no, it can't.


KG: 20/11/4
Duncan: 21/12/3

KG: Top notch defender
Duncan: Top notch defender

KG is simply more of an inside/outside threat, while Duncan is a killer post player. They're at least remotely similar.


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## Najee (Apr 5, 2007)

*KG vs. Timmy*

I've always said Tim Duncan and Kevin Garnett were even, particularly since 1999-2000.


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## Spaceman Spiff (Aug 2, 2006)

GrandKenyon6 said:


> It's incredible how after so long, many of you still don't understand how good Tim Duncan is and what he does for his team. This isn't even remotely close.


I don't understand why either. This guy has been on the All-NBA and All-NBA defensive teams every single year of his career. And most of those were 1st team selections for both. He's a perennial All-Star, a perennial 20/10/2blk player, 4 time champion, 2 time MVP, 3 time Finals MVP. His resume is bigger than that off Barkley, Malone, or any other PF who played the game. And for those who claim he's a C he is easily a top 5 Center of all time.

KG is a hall of famer no doubt but he's not better than Duncan, those it's close. If you ask me this very minute I'd still take Duncan over KG.

Duncan is more dominant and KG is more versatile.


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## MLKG (Aug 25, 2003)

futuristxen said:


> KG is louder and more boisterous, but his game is fadeaways and jumpers.


That's like saying Duncan's game is bank shots and jump hooks.

Garnett is just as adept at facilitating an offense out of the high post as Duncan is out of the low post, and shooting 15 footers is part of playing the high post. And he's a lights-out shooter from that range.

Why do people criticize good shooters for taking good shots?


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## mqtcelticsfan (Apr 2, 2006)

MLKG said:


> That's like saying Duncan's game is bank shots and jump hooks.
> 
> Garnett is just as adept at facilitating an offense out of the high post as Duncan is out of the low post, and shooting 15 footers is part of playing the high post. And he's a lights-out shooter from that range.
> 
> Why do people criticize good shooters for taking good shots?


Because you need to be less than 6'8" to be considered a shooter in the NBA, duh.


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

Yeah plus if you shoot from 15 feet instead of in the post you are 'soft'

regardless of whether that shot hits more than 50% of the time or not


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## mqtcelticsfan (Apr 2, 2006)

Spaceman Spiff said:


> I don't understand why either. This guy has been on the All-NBA and All-NBA defensive teams every single year of his career.


Since 1999, KG has been on one of the three All-NBA teams every year but 2006, and has been on one of the two all-defense teams every year since 2000.



Spaceman Spiff said:


> And most of those were 1st team selections for both.


KG's been on 4 first team All NBA teams, and 7 First team Defensive teams.



Spaceman Spiff said:


> He's a perennial All-Star,


So is KG.



Spaceman Spiff said:


> a perennial 20/10/2blk player,


So is KG.



Spaceman Spiff said:


> 4 time champion,


Spurs > T-Wolves



Spaceman Spiff said:


> 2 time MVP,


One more than KG.



Spaceman Spiff said:


> 3 time Finals MVP.


Props to Duncan, but this is hardly something that puts him on another planet from Garnett. I realize you're not saying this, but I felt this was a perfect place to compare the two.


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## sonicFLAME6 (Dec 19, 2006)

Whenever I need a good laugh I come in here read a couple of posts then log out. It's comical how people try to dig up reasons to how Garnett is at-least tied with Garnett, then there's those who think he is better. Today, Tomorrow, Yesterday, Timmy has and is better.
Remember the time when Duncan couldn't lead his team out of the 1st round 7 straight seasons? oh wait...


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## buduan (Jun 10, 2002)

*Re: KG vs. Timmy*



Najee said:


> I've always said Tim Duncan and Kevin Garnett were even, particularly since 1999-2000.


YUP


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

Undefeated82 said:


> Whenever I need a good laugh I come in here read a couple of posts then log out. It's comical how people try to dig up reasons to how Garnett is at-least tied with Garnett, then there's those who think he is better. Today, Tomorrow, Yesterday, Timmy has and is better.
> Remember the time when Duncan couldn't lead his team out of the 1st round 7 straight seasons? oh wait...


Kg gets traded and his team is the 2nd worst team in the L. If Duncan got traded, his team would probably still compete for a playoff spot(Big Difference in talent).........You guys are just using team success to compare individual talent and it's rediculous. You cant necesseraly apply team success into the equation all the time, especially when the two players at hand played for organizations at opposite ends of the spectrum. 

If Tim Duncan was loyal to the clippers for his entire career and didnt win any rings, nobody would be saying he is so great either, but he went to a team that actually had a GOOD management and had a HoF'er playing next to him from day ONE(KG had nothing like that at all......). It's a lot easier to thrive with good players around you. Tim Duncan didnt HAVE to carry the load night in and night out BY HIMSELF for 11 straight years like KG(KG had one decent year of help before this one with Cassel and Spree). KG didn't have the luxury of a Manu, or a PG like TP to take over a playoff game or two here and there when **** wasnt goin well.......Basically, if KG played one or two bad playoff games & didn't put up 25 & 12 night in night out, his team had no shot of winning anything becuz his supporting cast was soo weak. Recognize this and get off the dudes damn back!

There have been plenty of games where Duncan has play'd poor or where Manu or TP has just gone off led the team to victory. Duncan doesn't putting up 30 & 15 every damn playoff game like i would assume from reading half of these damn posts. He struggles in his fair amount of games too, but he just had the benefit of having a good 2nd and 3rd option around to help out since the beggining. BREAKIN Newz, Everybody isnt that furtunate. Some people like KG actually get stuck wit bad GM's and bad teams with bad talent from the beggining and have to listens idiots call him a loser, not becuz of what he does individually, but becuz of the bad talent around him. 

People need to realize his situation. The closest thing KG really ever had to Duncan's cast was maybe the 1-dimensional/oft-injured Wally Sczerbiak, Anthony Peeler, Troy Hudson, and a bunch of other bums like that that I dont really even feel like naming. 1 year KG had a DECENT cast and he made to WCF. KG made Wally a damn all-star for goodness sake. Dude had NOONE to take ANY kind of presure off of him what-so-ever.......he had nothing like a Manu or TP to dish the ball to and make him look he made good decisions......Instead he got to hear how he was scared to take the big shot becuz even tho he made the right plays, his teammates were such bums that they didn't know what to do with the ball(unlike Manu TP). People act like all situations are equal. NO. KG and Duncan are on the same level individually so u guys just need to stop with this holier-than-thou bull-****. I rest my case for now....

:azdaja:


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## Deke (Jul 27, 2005)

if duncan is so ****ing great why did he get molested by the lakers and kobe tear up the rim?


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## lovebball (Nov 26, 2006)

KG the guy who is afraid to take shots in crunch time and settles for soft jumpers all series is now better than Duncan 3 times(shoulda been 4) timnes MVP??? Just because KG sells jerseys and Duncan doesnt..............


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## lovebball (Nov 26, 2006)

The reason fade away jumpers are considered soft is because......
1) goes in less frequently
2)Less likely chance of foul called
3)If you miss less likely chance of getting the offensive rebound


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## Deke (Jul 27, 2005)

lovebball said:


> KG the guy who is afraid to take shots in crunch time and settles for soft jumpers all series is now better than Duncan 3 times(shoulda been 4) timnes MVP??? Just because KG sells jerseys and Duncan doesnt..............


again we are talking about this year. this year kobe abused bowen and duncan and owned his rim. this year kg played a strong interior d that held kobe completely out of the paint.

this year duncan got raped in the wcf and almost beaten by the hornets. this year boston overcame everyone saying detroit would win since they couldnt win on the road, close out ecf on the road, and then dominate the lakers in kgs FIRST year as a celtic. but we arent looking at lifetime awards, today kg is a better player then duncan, even defensively imo. duncan is not as fast on his feet anymore against quick penetrators.


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