# Are the Houston Rockets forced to rebuild?



## TDUBB (Mar 4, 2003)

With the Rockets now 1-4 without McGrady (or 10-34 counting up until now), do you think the Rockets should look into rebuilding around Yao Ming again? I’ve watched a lot of Rocket games, and this team just isn’t deep enough to win games without McGrady (yeah i know big surprise huh?) 

Sure Yao can give you 30+ pts, but its still not enough to warrant a win. I don’t care if we lose by a single point, we still lost. And I don’t like moral victories. The role players need to step up and hit there shots. Alston is a good ball handler but he’s a piss poor point guard. Low b-ball IQ, horrible defender, and an average passer at best.
Not to mention he cant shoot worth a lick. Hayes is a great rebounder but he can’t even make a open lay-up under the basket!

Dikembe and Howard (although playing real well recently) are in the final stages of there career. You can't rely on those two players forever. Novak, VSpan, and JLIII are pretty much unproven b/c Jeff Van Gundy refuses to play them off the bench. 


Yao, Luther Head, and Shane Battier are the only players i would keep on this team. 

Which leads to, you know who... Tracy McGrady. I've thought about this for a moment. I loved the way he showcased his brilliant skills in his Orlando days, but the past year and half has been a complete utter nightmare. I can’t take this shyt anymore!

Let's be realistic, no team are gonna trade their stars for our injured star “playmaker” (so forget about the Garnett, Areanas, Joe Johnson, etc..). 

At this point, if your Carroll Dawson would you give this season one last shot and look into rebuilding this team around Yao Ming again if things fail? (Ex. 1st round exit or no playoffs at all) 

I’m talking about trading TMAC for new significant role players or future picks, and probably tank for someone like OJ MAYO? Basically the same transition Philly is doing this year by trading A.I. Or keep TMAC, and just keep working with what you have. Trade the players around you and HOPEFULLY land a better acquisition along with hoping TMAC’s back doesn’t fail out on us in the playoffs (IF we even make it).


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## JMES HOME (May 22, 2006)

as much as do not wanna say it ,, i think tmac's time is passed :sad:


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## CrackerJack (Jul 2, 2005)

we are one *healthy* superstar away from becoming very very very legit


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## HayesFan (Feb 16, 2006)

This team just needs to all be firing on the cylinders at the same time.

Last night for instance... Bonzi hit 2-10 shots. 20%?? for a supposed scoring threat? But in the last game.. he shot 6-12 50%. 

You can't blame Chuck for no offense. The only time he shot the ball was to attempt a tip in after a missed shot. That's it. The ball never got to him on the weak side. You have to consider he makes over 50% of the shots he gets and the Rockets aren't asking him to be a scoring leader, just pick up the garbage.

Rafer apparently needs 3 qtrs to warm up, because he shoots great at the end of the game.. and terrible at the beginning. I think all of his points last night except for like 2 were in the end of the third and in the fourth quarter.

Shane only shot the ball 4 times. He only made one, but he could shoot more and have Rafer shoot less.. that would be nice.

To be honest, the problem isn't personnel or talent... its consistancy. We know that each and every one of the players on our team can perform, hence the idea of depth. 

The problem is getting them to all be consistant together... Even without McGrady we know they can win, they should be 4-0 in the last four games. But if it takes them to until February to figure out how to get that consistancy, isn't that alright. As long as we win enough to stay on the playoff path that's enough because the playoffs are everything correct?


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## jdiggidy (Jun 21, 2003)

It may not seem like it however, I really am a fan of TMAC. It is just really hard over the past two seasons not to get at least 75 games out of your superstar. I already posted this on one of the AI threads. This is TMac's salary over the next four seasons.

2006 through 2009
$16,901,500 $19,014,187 $21,126,874 $23,239,561

This is alot of money to be investing in a guy superstar or not with a CHRONICALLY BAD back. If you wait to long then teams in him will not be open to the idea of taking on his salary.

As a Rockets fan, you really have to ask yourself if you want TMAC for 60 games or less per season or would you rather have lets say Jamal Crawford, QRich, and David Lee for an entire season year end and year out. (THIS IS JUST AN EXAMPLE.)


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## xray (Feb 21, 2005)

Larry Legend is a classic example; a degeneretive back will stay with a player the rest of his career, and unfortunately his life. T-Mac isn't going to get better, just numb when possible.

The next time your back hurts, try raising your arms and jumping. :wahmbulance:


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## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

CrackerJack said:


> we are one *healthy* superstar away from becoming very very very legit




Big deal, so is just about every team in the NBA. Hell, My beloved Blazers would be world beaters with one superstar added to the current roster in lpace of say Udoka or Przybilla. Those guys are great, but replace them with either LeBron James or Tim Duncan and we are instant title contenders.


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## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

xray said:


> Larry Legend is a classic example; a degeneretive back will stay with a player the rest of his career, and unfortunately his life. T-Mac isn't going to get better, just numb when possible.
> 
> The next time your back hurts, try raising your arms and jumping. :wahmbulance:



Larry Johnson is another sad case in bad backs


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## OneBadLT123 (Oct 4, 2005)

HayesFan said:


> This team just needs to all be firing on the cylinders at the same time.
> 
> Last night for instance... Bonzi hit 2-10 shots. 20%?? for a supposed scoring threat? But in the last game.. he shot 6-12 50%.
> 
> ...


This is the thing thats though. We just cant be "waiting to gel" or to click together. It has been almost 2 months into the season and it is just not working outside of Yao. We are one of the worst shooting teams in the NBA, commit the most turnovers, and jack up the most 3's. On top of that we have lost too many must win games (Portland, Minnesota, New Orleans, Golden State)

In our division, and being in the west, we just cant lose those games. We just cant. Elite teams dont give up games like that. Those are 4 wins we let get away. We would be 19-6 for 2nd best in the NBA. Every game counts because if we end up with the 5th or 6th spot, then it could just lead to another disappointing first round exit. As long time Houston fans, we just cant take it anymore and keep "waiting" we have had too much success in the past to keep putting things like this off.

Now on Brokeback Tmac, when healthy he is great. But this is the thing. He is never healthy anymore! He has had a ton of time off last year, and all summer. And he STILL pulls his back when just jumping in the air. Tmac for 50, 60 games will never get us anywhere. Ever. It is going to be a pattern of 10 games miss 2, 15 games, miss 5 and so on. I wish for once some Rockets fans would take off their homer goggles, and delusional ideas of him working for us this year. Because it just isn’t.


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## yaontmac (Jul 5, 2006)

The Rox should STOP trying to rebuild around Yao! They should surround Yao with long and athletic scorers, some stars, but not necessarily all-stars. Yao is a team player and wouldn't mind if he was second or third scorer. Rox need more offensive playmakers. If Rox rebuild around Yao, all they going to get are a bunch of passive nice guy players who can't make their own shot. I'm a Yao fan, but I just want to see him on a good team and win a ring, not score 30 every night for a losing team.

It's very possible TMac's career is over. Even before the latest injury, when his back was OK, he was old and slow. TMac is only going to get older and slower. Les needs to do something soon.


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## bronx43 (Dec 9, 2005)

mediocre man said:


> Big deal, so is just about every team in the NBA. Hell, My beloved Blazers would be world beaters with one superstar added to the current roster in lpace of say Udoka or Przybilla. Those guys are great, but replace them with either LeBron James or Tim Duncan and we are instant title contenders.


That's not what he meant. The Rockets already have two superstars. The only thing is the second superstar isn't healthy. It would be the same thing if the Blazer already have Lebron or Duncan, but they were injured.


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## HayesFan (Feb 16, 2006)

I didn't say we needed to "gel", we just need everyone to be consistant instead of streaky. Losing all hope because we are 5-5 in the month of December isn't the answer either.

Even without Tmac on the floor, we can win if Yao continues to play as well as he is. The problem, I think, is getting everyone else to contribute the same thing day in and day out.

Now that Yao's rebounds are up Chuck's are down. Now that Bonzi's stepped in Shane isn't shooting at all.

If we could get everyone (or even 5 people out of the 9 in the rotation) to perform to their ability in every game then we would be winning all these close games. One or two guys carrying the load may work in the short term, but in the long term you need everyone contributing.

Also, you need more of an offensive motion than dribble down, set a screen for your point gaurd, one pass, in to Yao inside. Because what happens is exactly what is happening.. only three people get to shoot. Yao, the point gaurd, and the player that gets the first pass before it goes into Yao at the post.

I guess my answer is not to rebuild, but to get more utilization out of what you have... that I blame JVG for.

But we are no Philly out to rebuild from scratch.

edit: wow I was long winded wasn't I! LOL


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## mook (Dec 31, 2002)

as a Blazer fan who's watched Darius Miles, Shawn Kemp, Damon Stoudamire and Scottie Pippen become shells of their former selves while still cashing mammoth checks, I can honestly say you guys are pretty much stuck with McGrady. 

I can tell you firsthand that teams just don't make trades for guys making $10+ million with chronic injury problems. it's too much risk for too much salary, and not enough payoff for the risk. 

Iverson is still putting up 30 a night. Iverson is still filling arenas. Iverson has played in over 72 games each of the past two seasons, and hasn't missed any this year because of injury. McGrady isn't Iverson. 

I've always been a big fan of McGrady (and Yao), so it depresses me to think his career is beginning to Grant Hill itself into oblivion. 

should Houston rebuild? sure. they should do whatever they can to put in pieces that fit around Yao. but people need to realize that McGrady is a sunk cost. he's really not a trade asset anymore.


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## bronx43 (Dec 9, 2005)

The thing with McGrady is, I fear he will ruin Yao's career. He's soaking up 16 million a year, which absolutely kills Houston's ability to acquire another All-Star swing man. It's also tremendously hard to rebuild purely from draft picks, especially since Houston is not so bad as to get a top five pick every year. So, it's not unimaginable that Yao will waste his career away in Houston just as Garnett has in Minnesota.


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## OneBadLT123 (Oct 4, 2005)

bronx43 said:


> That's not what *he* meant. The Rockets already have two superstars. The only thing is the second superstar isn't healthy. It would be the same thing if the Blazer already have Lebron or Duncan, but they were injured.


she


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## Yao Mania (Aug 4, 2003)

nah, I'd rather ride out the season and see how our guys come back. Aside from Alston I'm actually pretty happy with our roster, given that Snyder will come back (when's he coming back??) and T-Mac can play at least to 50% of his ability.


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## HayesFan (Feb 16, 2006)

Yao Mania said:


> nah, I'd rather ride out the season and see how our guys come back. Aside from Alston I'm actually pretty happy with our roster, *given that Snyder will come back (when's he coming back??)and T-Mac can play at least to 50% of his ability.*


*

Snyder is supposed to be allowed to practice on Jan 2, then they expect two weeks before he's playing again.. so Jan 15th I think was the estimated date.*


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## debarge (Nov 13, 2005)

I actually think the Rockets biggest problem isn't Tracy's back; its the bald-headed midget sitting on the bench JVG. This is a winning team w/ better coaching, yes it is under the right tutelage. Phil Jackson doesn't really have better players than us, he is just a better coach. Jeff needs Tmac more than anyone. You think Smush Parker is better than Rafer, NO WAY JOSE. You think Luke Walton would be having a borderline Allstar year w/ Jeff, NO WAY JOSE.
We need another coach, even if Mac were healthy, Jeff would still hold this team back. He has no imagination, terrible at drafting, and is horrible at managing the game during the game? The errors we have are very fixable, Luther should never NEVER BE HANDLING THE BALL. JLucas should be playing w/ Luther at the 2, or Spanoulis, you notice our TOs are higher w/ Luther in the game??? I like him, but he's a glorified spot up shooter? He's not John Paxson, he's he's not even Matt Maloney. Those guys weren't just "great passers" but they didn't Turn the Ball over. NO WAY IN HELL YAO WOULDN'T TOUCH THE BALL DOWN 2 POINTS W/ 35 SECONDS LEFT UNDER RUDY, LUTHER I WANTED TO SHOOT YOUR EYE OUT THEN. It seems now that Luther has taken over Ryan Bowen's role as Jeff favorite son, no matter how badly he plays he never loses time.
Some things that will help us during Tmac's absence:
Shane and Bonzi Shoot more! Put Novak in w/ these guys while Yao is sitting. 
Luther only plays at the 2, NEVER HANDLE THE BALL, come off screens/pick n pop LEARN IT FOOL!!!
Chuck/Dke should never be on the court at the same time.
_Bottomline: We need a New Coach, or the one whose been "Coaching Up" Yao, Tom Tibideuax; or 'TIBS' As Mac calls him. Stop worrying about things we cannot change like Dke's age, Chucks' horrible release, and Tracy's back problem. Those things aren't likely to change, so we deal w/ things we can change; The issue is does Les have the balls to fire Jeff and give the Reigns to Tom, or back to Rudy, or for God's sake hire Larry Brown?_


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## smithys1510 (Jul 11, 2005)

I think we are all over-reacting here. T-macs back from all reports doesnt seem as bad as last year, he should be back soon. Look on the bright side, we've had the bonzi incident, snyders injury, t-macs injury along with some poor early play by alston, but after 15 games we are still 15-10, we also havent had the easiet of schedules. The past few years we have add horendous starts to the season and have managed to post mid season revivals. If t-mac gets fit again, we can still register 50 wins this year in my opinion.


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## TDUBB (Mar 4, 2003)

debarge said:


> I actually think the Rockets biggest problem isn't Tracy's back; its the bald-headed midget sitting on the bench JVG. This is a winning team w/ better coaching, yes it is under the right tutelage. Phil Jackson doesn't really have better players than us, he is just a better coach. Jeff needs Tmac more than anyone. You think Smush Parker is better than Rafer, NO WAY JOSE. You think Luke Walton would be having a borderline Allstar year w/ Jeff, NO WAY JOSE.
> We need another coach, even if Mac were healthy, Jeff would still hold this team back. He has no imagination, terrible at drafting, and is horrible at managing the game during the game? The errors we have are very fixable, Luther should never NEVER BE HANDLING THE BALL. JLucas should be playing w/ Luther at the 2, or Spanoulis, you notice our TOs are higher w/ Luther in the game??? I like him, but he's a glorified spot up shooter? He's not John Paxson, he's he's not even Matt Maloney. Those guys weren't just "great passers" but they didn't Turn the Ball over. NO WAY IN HELL YAO WOULDN'T TOUCH THE BALL DOWN 2 POINTS W/ 35 SECONDS LEFT UNDER RUDY, LUTHER I WANTED TO SHOOT YOUR EYE OUT THEN. It seems now that Luther has taken over Ryan Bowen's role as Jeff favorite son, no matter how badly he plays he never loses time.
> Some things that will help us during Tmac's absence:
> Shane and Bonzi Shoot more! Put Novak in w/ these guys while Yao is sitting.
> ...


IF things still start to crumble without TMAC, we'll gonna be 15-12. Just right below Denver, and if TMAC doesnt come back by the 26th. F*** we are screwed! 

I'd luv to have Larry Brown. He's a way more proven coach than JVG.


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## OneBadLT123 (Oct 4, 2005)

Now you know why i stressed how much those must need win games were important? Look at it now.

Yao and Tmac. Out with injuries. ugh


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## TDUBB (Mar 4, 2003)

now would you say its time for a rebuilding mode?

Why push for the playoffs? You actually think we'll win a championship given the role players we have right now? 

I would just tank the season and go for Oden or a top 10 player in this years draft.


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## NOODLESTYLE (Jan 20, 2005)

debarge said:


> I actually think the Rockets biggest problem isn't Tracy's back; its the bald-headed midget sitting on the bench JVG. This is a winning team w/ better coaching, yes it is under the right tutelage. Phil Jackson doesn't really have better players than us, he is just a better coach. Jeff needs Tmac more than anyone. You think Smush Parker is better than Rafer, NO WAY JOSE. You think Luke Walton would be having a borderline Allstar year w/ Jeff, NO WAY JOSE.
> We need another coach, even if Mac were healthy, Jeff would still hold this team back. He has no imagination, terrible at drafting, and is horrible at managing the game during the game? The errors we have are very fixable, Luther should never NEVER BE HANDLING THE BALL. JLucas should be playing w/ Luther at the 2, or Spanoulis, you notice our TOs are higher w/ Luther in the game??? I like him, but he's a glorified spot up shooter? He's not John Paxson, he's he's not even Matt Maloney. Those guys weren't just "great passers" but they didn't Turn the Ball over. NO WAY IN HELL YAO WOULDN'T TOUCH THE BALL DOWN 2 POINTS W/ 35 SECONDS LEFT UNDER RUDY, LUTHER I WANTED TO SHOOT YOUR EYE OUT THEN. It seems now that Luther has taken over Ryan Bowen's role as Jeff favorite son, no matter how badly he plays he never loses time.
> Some things that will help us during Tmac's absence:
> Shane and Bonzi Shoot more! Put Novak in w/ these guys while Yao is sitting.
> ...


this is why Yao Ming is better off on the Lakers.


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