# Boers and Bernstein announce... [the trade thread]



## robg (Jul 19, 2002)

*Bores & Burnstein announce something about nothing...*

Okay, burns and bernstien just reported that something is "going on" and they can't mention it and bernstein is frustrated and he said to listen because there might be a possible announcement. I know for a fact that bernstein is a big bulls fan and maybe its a bulls thing. 

sorry im writing a post about nothing


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## kirk_hinrich1983 (Nov 21, 2003)

is he a big Bc fan specifically?


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## robg (Jul 19, 2002)

Just heard: on the score update and they say Rose to Toronto for alvin williiams, another williams and mo peterson


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>robg</b>!
> Just heard: on the score update and they say Rose to Toronto for alvin williiams, another williams and mo peterson


Jerome Williams? There has to be another Bull player involved in that.


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## Nater (Jul 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>robg</b>!
> Just heard: on the score update and they say Rose to Toronto for alvin williiams, another williams and mo peterson


The other williams would be PF Jerome Williams.

Offman also reported that sources for both teams denied knowledge of a deal.


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## Nater (Jul 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ace20004u</b>!
> 
> 
> Jerome Williams? There has to be another Bull player involved in that.


Did you run trade-checker? I'd be surprised if we pick up another PG without giving one up. I'll check and see if Jamal's salary makes it work.


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## Lizzy (May 28, 2002)

We'd have to cut some players if this was true.


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## C Blizzy (Nov 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>robg</b>!
> Just heard: on the score update and they say Rose to Toronto for alvin williiams, another williams and mo peterson


Mike North just repeated it! This is a tremendous deal for the Bulls!


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## kirk_hinrich1983 (Nov 21, 2003)

ding dong jalen's gone!!!


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

Chicago trades: SF Jalen Rose (15.3 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 4.1 apg in 35.4 minutes) 
Chicago receives: SF Morris Peterson (6.5 ppg, 1.8 rpg, 1.1 apg in 17.3 minutes) 
PF Jerome Williams (5.8 ppg, 9.8 rpg, 0.6 apg in 29.2 minutes) 
PG Alvin Williams (2.6 ppg, 1.7 rpg, 3.5 apg in 17.8 minutes) 
Change in team outlook: -0.4 ppg, +9.0 rpg, and +1.1 apg. 

Toronto trades: SF Morris Peterson (6.5 ppg, 1.8 rpg, 1.1 apg in 17.3 minutes) 
PF Jerome Williams (5.8 ppg, 9.8 rpg, 0.6 apg in 29.2 minutes) 
PG Alvin Williams (2.6 ppg, 1.7 rpg, 3.5 apg in 17.8 minutes) 
Toronto receives: SF Jalen Rose (15.3 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 4.1 apg in 12 games) 
Change in team outlook: +0.4 ppg, -9.0 rpg, and -1.1 apg. 

TRADE ACCEPTED

Due to Chicago and Toronto being over the cap, the 15% trade rule is invoked. Chicago and Toronto had to be no more than 115% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement


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## kirk_hinrich1983 (Nov 21, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Nater</b>!
> 
> 
> Did you run trade-checker? I'd be surprised if we pick up another PG without giving one up. I'll check and see if Jamal's salary makes it work.


it worked under the trade checker!!

Chicago trades: SF Jalen Rose (15.3 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 4.1 apg in 35.4 minutes) 
Chicago receives: PG Alvin Williams (2.6 ppg, 1.7 rpg, 3.5 apg in 17.8 minutes) 
PF Jerome Williams (5.8 ppg, 9.8 rpg, 0.6 apg in 29.2 minutes) 
SF Morris Peterson (6.5 ppg, 1.8 rpg, 1.1 apg in 17.3 minutes) 
Change in team outlook: -0.4 ppg, +9.0 rpg, and +1.1 apg. 

Toronto trades: PG Alvin Williams (2.6 ppg, 1.7 rpg, 3.5 apg in 17.8 minutes) 
PF Jerome Williams (5.8 ppg, 9.8 rpg, 0.6 apg in 29.2 minutes) 
SF Morris Peterson (6.5 ppg, 1.8 rpg, 1.1 apg in 17.3 minutes) 
Toronto receives: SF Jalen Rose (15.3 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 4.1 apg in 12 games) 
Change in team outlook: +0.4 ppg, -9.0 rpg, and -1.1 apg. 

TRADE ACCEPTED



sweet!


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## Kismet (Mar 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Nater</b>!
> 
> 
> Did you run trade-checker? I'd be surprised if we pick up another PG without giving one up. I'll check and see if Jamal's salary makes it work.


It works as a stand alone deal with trade checker. But there's a chance another deal may be in the works as well. Maybe a two for one.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

I'd say if all the Bulls are giving up is Rose then this deal is a big winner! If they are giving up Marshall or Crawford along with Rose in the deal then it turns into a stinker.


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## hps (Jul 23, 2002)

Anyone who is hearing this, please post and confirm! Can't get 670 in my area. Thanks!!!!


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## Nater (Jul 10, 2002)

I just ran Trade Checker.

Rose for those 3 works.

Rose + Fizer or Rose + Crawford don't work.

So if we don't toss anyone in, we'll have to cut players (as Lizzy said). Linton Johnson would be the first. Who's second?


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Nater</b>!
> I just ran Trade Checker.
> 
> Rose for those 3 works.
> ...


Roger Mason?


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## Nater (Jul 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ace20004u</b>!
> 
> 
> Roger Mason?


That was my thought also. I just checked, and the trade works with him thrown in.


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## Lizzy (May 28, 2002)

Are they being more specific than the Crawford for Miles trade last year? I mean does it sound more legit?


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## fl_flash (Aug 19, 2002)

Like Lizzy stated, if this deal is true and it's a one for three trade, who get's cut on our end? I'm guessing bye bye's are in order for Linton Johnson and Roger Mason...


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## kirk_hinrich1983 (Nov 21, 2003)

heres another version where we also add marshal, jamal and corey and toronto throws in AD

Toronto trades: SF Morris Peterson (6.5 ppg, 1.8 rpg, 1.1 apg in 17.3 minutes) 
PF Jerome Williams (5.8 ppg, 9.8 rpg, 0.6 apg in 29.2 minutes) 
PG Alvin Williams (2.6 ppg, 1.7 rpg, 3.5 apg in 17.8 minutes) 
PF Antonio Davis (7.7 ppg, 10.1 rpg, 1.1 apg in 34.9 minutes) 
Toronto receives: PF Marcus Fizer (5.5 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 0.3 apg in 9.5 minutes) 
SF Donyell Marshall (9.3 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 2.1 apg in 27.4 minutes) 
SF Jalen Rose (15.3 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 4.1 apg in 35.4 minutes) 
PF Corie Blount (2.9 ppg, 2.8 rpg, 0.7 apg in 13.2 minutes) 
PG Jamal Crawford (13.3 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 4.6 apg in 29.9 minutes) 
Change in team outlook: +23.7 ppg, -4.8 rpg, and +5.5 apg. 

Chicago trades: PF Marcus Fizer (5.5 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 0.3 apg in 9.5 minutes) 
SF Donyell Marshall (9.3 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 2.1 apg in 27.4 minutes) 
SF Jalen Rose (15.3 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 4.1 apg in 35.4 minutes) 
PF Corie Blount (2.9 ppg, 2.8 rpg, 0.7 apg in 13.2 minutes) 
PG Jamal Crawford (13.3 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 4.6 apg in 29.9 minutes) 
Chicago receives: SF Morris Peterson (6.5 ppg, 1.8 rpg, 1.1 apg in 11 games) 
PF Jerome Williams (5.8 ppg, 9.8 rpg, 0.6 apg in 11 games) 
PG Alvin Williams (2.6 ppg, 1.7 rpg, 3.5 apg in 11 games) 
PF Antonio Davis (7.7 ppg, 10.1 rpg, 1.1 apg in 11 games)


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## Nater (Jul 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Lizzy</b>!
> Are they being more specific than the Crawford for Miles trade last year? I mean does it sound more legit?


I would say "no." As I recall, that trade was almost reported as breaking news. This one seems to be just a rumor.


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## Kismet (Mar 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>ace20004u</b>!
> I'd say if all the Bulls are giving up is Rose then this deal is a big winner! If they are giving up Marshall or Crawford along with Rose in the deal then it turns into a stinker.


Peterson and A Williams are perimeter players. We've got a load of them already. There's got to be another deal on the horizon, especially since both Williams' have four years remaining on their contracts. As pure speculation, Crawford and Robinson may be headed elsewhere as a package. Maybe they're off to NY for Ward and Harrington. Ward's salary comes off the books if he's waived sometime soon, right? That would partially offset the two Williams' contracts.


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## hps (Jul 23, 2002)

The Raptors board on the "other site" says it could be Antonio Davis, Jerome Williams, Alvin Williams, and Mo Peterson for Rose, Marshall, and Fizer.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Maybe the idea is to play Crawford at SG, with Jalen gone?

With Jalen gone, where is the scoring going to come from on this team?


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## chifaninca (May 28, 2002)

Man,

I am hoping this is more than a rumor. I like Jalen, but I also like Mo Pete and Williams can be very effective as well. Plus, we;d get a guy who knows hard nose defense and rebounding like the JYD. 

Mo Pete's been off this year and I'm not sure that Alvin Williams is the type of PG that Cartwrong would want....but this is a deal that I feel good about for both teams.

Jalen and Vince give them a strong attack.....


Hmmmm...sounds too good to be true.


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## fl_flash (Aug 19, 2002)

One thing to look for is if Rose all of a sudden sprained an ankle at the shootaround before the game tonight or has come down with a head cold or the flu or such....


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>hps</b>!
> The Raptors board on the "other site" says it could be Antonio Davis, Jerome Williams, Alvin Williams, and Mo Peterson for Rose, Marshall, and Fizer.


I don't like that deal because I don't like Davis, or his contract.


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## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

This is weird cuz i was working on a 3 team deal with toronto seattle Chicago, trying to get Ray Allen for jalen crawford toronto moves AD and lamond and Mo Pete


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## Nater (Jul 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>futuristxen</b>!
> Maybe the idea is to play Crawford at SG, with Jalen gone?


That would make a lot of people very happy -- myself included.


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## hps (Jul 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ace20004u</b>!
> 
> 
> I don't like that deal because I don't like Davis, or his contract.


Yeah, but Davis is probably less of a malcontent and ballhog then Rose, and he and JYD provide what we need, veteran rebounding and interior defense.

Who knows though, have you or anyone else heard this somewhere?


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## Nater (Jul 10, 2002)

Offman is currently talking about it with the Wise Guys.

He says Marshall's name has been mentioned.

He says Toronto also wants a PG.

He says that 4 years remaining on each of the Williams' deals is a sticking point.

And he says that the 3 Raptors being talked about just boarded the plane for their game at NJ.


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## robg (Jul 19, 2002)

Just heard JYD, alvin williams and mo peterson are on a plane to New jersey and possible another trade w/ marshall involved and that Toronto is desparate for a point guard


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## Lizzy (May 28, 2002)

Paxson is going to screw it all up.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Really it would be quite the coup for Toronto to get Rose AND Crawford somehow. This is a team that needs scoring. And those two with Carter would be one of the best backcourts in the east.


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## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>chifaninca</b>!
> and I'm not sure that Alvin Williams is the type of PG that Cartwrong would


Cartwright wants a boring PG that plays good defense and contributes only a little on the offensive side.


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## Kismet (Mar 1, 2003)

If this goes down then Paxson avoids having to fire Cartwright for the time being. And if Davis is included, he and J. Williams certainly make us a more rugged, physically tough team immediately.

One more thing: this deal, expanded or otherwise would keep the Bulls young nucleus intact. And that would be a major accomplishment for Paxson.


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## Lizzy (May 28, 2002)

When the fans of the other team are really excited...you know you're about to get hosed. They want Crawford really bad. They're dying to get rid of AD. They don't seem to care about MoPete.

Not a good sign.

It will be interesting to see if Rose plays.


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## PC Load Letter (Jun 29, 2002)

The score has reported "rumored deals" many times before and many of them turn out to be nothing. Until I hear it from a more credible source, I will believe nothing. Having said that, if it IS true, it doesn't really seem to make a lot of sense for us unless there are additional players involved, like any combination of Jamal/Fizer/Donyell. Or possibly a third team.


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## hps (Jul 23, 2002)

Toronto could start:

PG - Rose
SG - Carter
SF - Marshall
PF - Bosh
CT - Bradley or Moiso

Rose finally gets to be the PG.


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## Kismet (Mar 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>robg</b>!
> Just heard JYD, alvin williams and mo peterson are on a plane to New jersey and possible another trade w/ marshall involved and that Toronto is desparate for a point guard


Remember the big Wizards/Mavs trade a few years ago where Washington barely had enough players to compete the night the trade was announced?

Anything can happen at anytime.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>futuristxen</b>!
> Maybe the idea is to play Crawford at SG, with Jalen gone?
> 
> With Jalen gone, where is the scoring going to come from on this team?


I believe you could be right unless NY makes a play for him. However, if we make this trade, then the NY deal becomes moot. So he could be our SG.


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## Nater (Jul 10, 2002)

I don't like the deal if it includes Crawford or Marshall. 

And I'm not particularly interested in Antonio Davis. I don't particularly care for his attitude.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>hps</b>!
> The Raptors board on the "other site" says it could be Antonio Davis, Jerome Williams, Alvin Williams, and Mo Peterson for Rose, Marshall, and Fizer.


The other site is realgm.....I know. We allow site names to be said.


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## Kismet (Mar 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>PC Load Letter</b>!
> The score has reported "rumored deals" many times before and many of them turn out to be nothing. Until I hear it from a more credible source, I will believe nothing. Having said that, if it IS true, it doesn't really seem to make a lot of sense for us unless there are additional players involved, like any combination of Jamal/Fizer/Donyell. Or possibly a third team.


WGN reported the expanded version that includes Marshall a short time ago.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Kismet</b>!
> If this goes down then Paxson avoids having to fire Cartwright for the time being. And if Davis is included, he and J. Williams certainly make us a more rugged, physically tough team immediately.
> 
> One more thing: this deal, expanded or otherwise would keep the Bulls young nucleus intact. And that would be a major accomplishment for Paxson.


I think that is what he is trying to do


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## Kneepad (Jun 24, 2002)

If the trade includes Marshall, we just traded our two leading scorers from last season.

Three C's-- your table is officially ready!


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## unBULLievable (Dec 13, 2002)

Bring in A Davis to show Eddy some tricks ..Tyson and Eddy are gonna get better by practicing with JYD and Antonio Davis...not with Blount and Baxter


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## Lizzy (May 28, 2002)

Why would Jamal play sg now? He could have been playing sg all along. Gill has been the sg.


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## hps (Jul 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Kismet</b>!
> 
> 
> WGN reported the expanded version that includes Marshall a short time ago.


I'm confused, which is the expanded version that WGN reported? Thanks.


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>robg</b>!
> Just heard JYD, alvin williams and mo peterson are on a plane to New jersey and possible another trade w/ marshall involved and that Toronto is desparate for a point guard


???!!

Toronto plays NJ on Saturday. So maybe the deal isn't final yet.


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

I hope this deal involves A.Davis.

Just a hunch, but I think he'll play better being home again.


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## Kneepad (Jun 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>superdave</b>!
> 
> 
> ???!!
> ...


I believe NBA rules specify that for road games a team is to be in the city in which they play the night before the game wherever possible?


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>hps</b>!
> 
> 
> I'm confused, which is the expanded version that WGN reported? Thanks.


Me too. What "expanded version" is WGN reporting?


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## Jim Ian (Aug 6, 2002)

This trade is simlply awful for the Bulls.

So we go from a team that is too deep, with too many players and not enough minutes, trouble finding set rotations and lineups.

And then we add more capable players used to getting 30+ minutes a game.

So then you have Crawford, Hinrich, Pippen, Williams, Williams, MoPete, ERob, Marshall, Fizer, Chandler, Curry & Blount.

So * 12! * players used to either starting or playing major (25-35) minutes a game.

You have to be kidding, this is a recipe for absolute disaster. Like the Bulls haven't had enough problems gelling as a team... let's get MORE players...

Paxon has been close to my complete idiot list before, but this trade would solidify him as a Top-5er.

He needs to be exploring 3-1 or 4-2 deals. If anything, we need to consolidate some of our good talent into great talent, not get more middle-of-the-road players.


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## Kismet (Mar 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>truebluefan</b>!
> 
> 
> Me too. What "expanded version" is WGN reporting?


...just that Marshall's name was mentioned as well as Rose's as being part of a trade with Toronto. I got that info from a friend who called me with it. He's the one who actually heard it.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Kismet</b>!
> 
> 
> ...just that Marshall's name was mentioned as well as Rose's as being part of a trade with Toronto. I got that info from a friend who called me with it. He's the one who actually heard it.


So who do we get if we add marshall??


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>truebluefan</b>!
> 
> 
> So who do we get if we add marshall??


A. Davis


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## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

how about we trade rose, crawford and marshall for Carter and a filler...


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## PC Load Letter (Jun 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>truebluefan</b>!
> 
> 
> So who do we get if we add marshall??


Would Jalen/Jamal/Yell for Alvin/Jerome/MoPete/Antonio work salary-wise? Oh god, please no! I would most likely vomit if that happened.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ace20004u</b>!
> 
> 
> A. Davis


Do all of the salaries match? AD makes a ton of money.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>truebluefan</b>!
> 
> 
> Do all of the salaries match? AD makes a ton of money.


My understanding is that the rumored deal (the expanded one)
is
Rose, Fizer, Marshall

for 

Mo pete, A. Williams, J. WIlliams, and A. Davis and I believe this works.


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## Kismet (Mar 1, 2003)

Rose, Marshall and Fizer for Jerome Williams, Antonio Davis and Mo Peterson works under the cap. And from a depth chart perspective, that's a version that would seem to make sense for both teams.

And you can absorb them without disrupting your starting lineup too much. Hinrich, Gill, Pippen, Chandler and Curry.


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## curry_52 (Jul 22, 2002)

This trade *****, with or without Marshall. Do you think Alvin Williams, Mo Pete or JYD will lead us to the promised land, aka Playoffs? I dont think so.
Rose is a difference maker, like it or not. The only "good" part about this is we get rid of his contract but get some shi* as well.

I dont like it. 
BTW: Who does JYD remind you of, talking about Bulls? Yes, Tyson Chandler. Thats not good news. Paxson may know something we dont about Chandler's health. And Do you think Antonio Davis will be happy playing 10 minutes a game? No, something isnt right with Chandler.

Dont forget about that rumoured deal that included Marshall and #7 for #4 and Lamond Murray. That deal was rejected by Paxson, but the Raptors really liked Marshall. 

Too bad there is no LeBron James next year, but we may finally pick a European stud with a Top-3 pick.

:dead:


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## Happyface (Nov 13, 2003)

Ughh, i think that trade sucks with Donyell in it.


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## kirk_hinrich1983 (Nov 21, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>truebluefan</b>!
> 
> 
> Do all of the salaries match? AD makes a ton of money.


yes, and works on the checkers

jalen
marshall 
corey

for

ad
jyd
mo pete


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## Kismet (Mar 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>ace20004u</b>!
> 
> 
> My understanding is that the rumored deal (the expanded one)
> ...


Trade Checker declined it.


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## kirk_hinrich1983 (Nov 21, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Happyface</b>!
> Ughh, i think that trade sucks with Donyell in it.



jyd brings defense though, not even just post defense but he can d up the elite shooting guards like kobe


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## Lizzy (May 28, 2002)

Keeping our starting line-up in tact? Which one of the 6?


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

I like this trade actually. JYD comes to play every night. Mo Pete, if he can get it together could be our future SF. AW is a nice PG. 

Now, we are deeper than before. So is there another trade on the horizon? Has to be. Has to include fizer/crawford/baxter or some to that effect for a player. I dont want to see Crawford go. Not really.


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## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>kirk_hinrich1983</b>!
> 
> 
> yes, and works on the checkers
> ...


who said anything about corey?

And where did Fizer's name come in all of this... I think we all have to read the first few posts because we are all getting mixed up with other people's "suggestions" instead of the actual players being discussed...


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

Trying to involve Marshall here... hmmm.....

1) Rose/Marshall for Peterson/AWilliams/ADavis
2) Rose/Marshall/eRob for Peterson/J.Williams/ADavis/L.Murray
3) Rose/Marshall/JayWill for Peterson/J.Williams/ADavis
4) Rose/Marshall/Fizer for Peterson/J.Williams/ADavis
TRADE(S) ACCEPTED


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>kirk_hinrich1983</b>!
> 
> 
> yes, and works on the checkers
> ...


Wheres AW???


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

* Rose has this year plus 3 more for some $60.4M.
* AW have this year plus 4 more (he has a player option before the 06/07 season he's be foolish not to pick up, so I assume he will). JYD has 3 more years and then a team option year at $7M, which we would surely NOT pick up. Mo Pete has a qualifying offer next year of $2.3M which I think he might be worth. If you add all that up, we are getting those guys for those years at $58M

Importantly though, nearly $7M of that is in AWs last year. If you assume we send Baxter and Mason or Lint to Toronto (we'd have to cut them otherwise) then this deal takes a decent abount off the cap in all but the final year (relative to our current position).

03/04: 1.66M
04/05: 0.67M
05/06: 3.32M
06/07: 3.68M
07/08: -6.85M

The half a mil we save next year isn't much, but the savings in the summer of the 05/06 season are significant, because that's when we will need to re-sign Curry and Chandler. We have to take a bit of a hit in 07/08, but this move gives us time to work around that and look for other options. There will also be a new CBA by then, so the tax considerations could change (right now, if they change, it appears they would do so favorably... eg, less restrictive luxury tax, but that's just my opinion). Normative questions about sticking to a specific budget aside, if that's what we're committed to doing, this looks like a moderate but not dramatic improvement of our position.

What about on-court? Well, it's not what I'd ideally like to see (keep Rose, Curry, Chandler, add another star- but maybe this isn't feasible) but it's not a wholesale sell-out either. One can make the argument that this trade will be good for us:

* The obvious downside is these guys aren't stars and they aren't as good as Rose. AW, JYD, MoPete core didn't win many games without AD and Vince last year. Of course, Rose didn't win many games without anyone else either. 

* A second downside is that AW looks hurt. This guy has been very solid through his career, but he's shooting like garbage. I truly hope we aren't taking a guy with a major injury problem.

* This move gives us more guys in their primes: JYD 30, AW 29, MP 26. Rose is almost 31, and while he's not over the hill, we need more guys in the prime of their capabilities. This trade does it. These guys are Goldi-locks' porridge when it comes to age... not raw, not so old they can't play consistently. While none of them are stars, they should give some consistency to the lineup.

* These guys are also a pretty quick and energetic bunch. I could see us playing a full court game with a Marshall/Tyson, JYD, ERob/MoPete, Jamal, Kirk/AW line and actually looking right quick.

* These three are all better defenders than what we've got now. JYD can guard a lot of wing guys, and we could play him at the 3 as well as the 4 on occasion, or at least match him nicely with Marshall, who can play the 3 role on offense but not so well on defense- JYD can play the 3 on D and the 4 on O.

* Moving Rose and keeping Jamal gives him a legitimate chance to be the starting SG. It truly wouldn't be too late for Jamal to turn things around. If he comes in and plays smart, I think he could work very well.

* I still think this team might be "too deep", and this trade would make that situation even worse. If it goes down, I'd expect another move too, such as Fizer for a future pick or a combination of guys for a more known commodity.


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## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

ESPN 1000 has Jalen for Alvin and Jerome Williams only. both williams would match Jalen's contract.


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## Kismet (Mar 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Lizzy</b>!
> Keeping our starting line-up in tact? Which one of the 6?



:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:


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## Bullwhip (Feb 26, 2003)

Hey guys -
I just heard on ESPN radio that it will be Jalen Rose for Jerome Williams and Alvin Williams. That's it.

:|


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## kirk_hinrich1983 (Nov 21, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>HAWK23</b>!
> 
> 
> who said anything about corey?
> ...



corey dosent neccesarily have to be talked about , he's just the filler to make salaries match. but donyell and jalen have been discussed, as well as JYD, mopete and AD


----------



## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

Chicago trades: PG Jamal Crawford (13.3 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 4.6 apg in 29.9 minutes) 
PF Marcus Fizer (5.5 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 0.3 apg in 9.5 minutes) 
SF Donyell Marshall (9.3 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 2.1 apg in 27.4 minutes) 
SF Jalen Rose (15.3 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 4.1 apg in 35.4 minutes) 
Chicago receives: SF Morris Peterson (6.5 ppg, 1.8 rpg, 1.1 apg in 17.3 minutes) 
PF Jerome Williams (5.8 ppg, 9.8 rpg, 0.6 apg in 29.2 minutes) 
PG Alvin Williams (2.6 ppg, 1.7 rpg, 3.5 apg in 17.8 minutes) 
PF Antonio Davis (7.7 ppg, 10.1 rpg, 1.1 apg in 34.9 minutes) 
Change in team outlook: -20.8 ppg, +7.6 rpg, and -4.8 apg. 

Toronto trades: SF Morris Peterson (6.5 ppg, 1.8 rpg, 1.1 apg in 17.3 minutes) 
PF Jerome Williams (5.8 ppg, 9.8 rpg, 0.6 apg in 29.2 minutes) 
PG Alvin Williams (2.6 ppg, 1.7 rpg, 3.5 apg in 17.8 minutes) 
PF Antonio Davis (7.7 ppg, 10.1 rpg, 1.1 apg in 34.9 minutes) 
Toronto receives: PG Jamal Crawford (13.3 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 4.6 apg in 10 games) 
PF Marcus Fizer (5.5 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 0.3 apg in 6 games) 
SF Donyell Marshall (9.3 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 2.1 apg in 12 games) 
SF Jalen Rose (15.3 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 4.1 apg in 12 games) 
Change in team outlook: +20.8 ppg, -7.6 rpg, and +4.8 apg. 



God, I hope this isn't the deal Pax is thinking about.


----------



## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mikedc</b>!
> * Rose has this year plus 3 more for some $60.4M.
> * AW have this year plus 4 more (he has a player option before the 06/07 season he's be foolish not to pick up, so I assume he will). JYD has 3 more years and then a team option year at $7M, which we would surely NOT pick up. Mo Pete has a qualifying offer next year of $2.3M which I think he might be worth. If you add all that up, we are getting those guys for those years at $58M
> 
> ...


I agree mike. Even more veteran. Defense. We could be TOO deep. I want to keep Jamal.


----------



## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Bullwhip</b>!
> Hey guys -
> I just heard on ESPN radio that it will be Jalen Rose for Jerome Williams and Alvin Williams. That's it.
> 
> :|


without Mo Pete thats a loser for the Bulls IMO


----------



## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Bullwhip</b>!
> Hey guys -
> I just heard on ESPN radio that it will be Jalen Rose for Jerome Williams and Alvin Williams. That's it.
> 
> :|


yes I just heard that as well


----------



## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Bullwhip</b>!
> Hey guys -
> I just heard on ESPN radio that it will be Jalen Rose for Jerome Williams and Alvin Williams. That's it.
> 
> :|


That trade doesn't work under the trade checker. Toronto is short on salary.


----------



## Kismet (Mar 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>spongyfungy</b>!
> ESPN 1000 has Jalen for Alvin and Jerome Williams only. both williams would match Jalen's contract.


Trade Checker doesn't like that one either.


----------



## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ace20004u</b>!
> Chicago trades: PG Jamal Crawford (13.3 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 4.6 apg in 29.9 minutes)
> PF Marcus Fizer (5.5 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 0.3 apg in 9.5 minutes)
> SF Donyell Marshall (9.3 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 2.1 apg in 27.4 minutes)
> ...


Me too.


----------



## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

this is freakin crazy, I just turned to 720 and they said:

rose

for peterson and both williams's


----------



## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

Jalen Rose for
Alvin Williams / Jerome Williams / MoPete

WORKS UNDER CBA


Whew. Jalen gets that much $$$$$!!


----------



## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>HAWK23</b>!
> this is freakin crazy, I just turned to 720 and they said:
> 
> rose
> ...


That could be it. Works under CBA!!


----------



## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>superdave</b>!
> 
> 
> That could be it. Works under CBA!!


i'de take it for sure... i like that trade


----------



## Lizzy (May 28, 2002)

Now they're saying Rose, Marshall and E-Rob for a bunch of Raptors. Williams, Williams, Davis and Peterson.

They said Marshall is invloved b/c he and Cartwright have been getting into it.

I'm glad we're trading good guys like Marshall for the sake of a horrible coach.


----------



## reHEATed (Jun 29, 2003)

if it is ture, i think u get a pretty good deal:yes:


----------



## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

"Score 670 just said Rose, Marsh, AND EROB!! for JYD, Davis, MoPete, and AW 


Said Erob and Marsh boarded a plane to Jersey WHERE THE RAPTORS PLAY TOMORROWw! "

--some dude on ESPN


(I like that one as well lol)


----------



## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>HAWK23</b>!
> 
> 
> i'de take it for sure... i like that trade


I like JYD and MoPete but.....

this trade would give the Bulls 8 PGs and 14 power forwards. Would there be another trade in the works? Kismet, rlucas, anyone??!!


----------



## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

This is crazy 720 now has donyell and rose for a combo of either davis, mo pete, jyd and alvin.

Davis is a big cog of this deal and not just a throw-in since he makes so much money.


----------



## Modena360 (May 22, 2003)

*So whats the done deal???*

???


----------



## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Lizzy</b>!
> Now they're saying Rose, Marshall and E-Rob for a bunch of Raptors. Williams, Williams, Davis and Peterson.
> 
> They said Marshall is invloved b/c he and Cartwright have been getting into it.
> ...


Rose/Marshall/eRob for
MoPete/AWilliams/JWilliams/ADavis

shock and awe.
i need to meditate....


----------



## Kismet (Mar 1, 2003)

WGN Radio reported that the deal is "very, very close." According to an agent the announcer spoke to, the names being talked about include Rose and Marshall on the Chicago side and Peterson, A Williams, J Williams, and Davis on the Toronto side. He said it could be any combination of those names.


----------



## robg (Jul 19, 2002)

Ok Im totally confuse now!

Content with Rose, Erob, Fizer moving
not with JC or Marshall

And I don't want AD here, big contract and I heard he was a jerk


----------



## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

OK, while I was working through that, I see that people are hypothesizing AD, Marshall and Fizer added to the trade.

Let be state succinctly:
The ramifications of that suck for everyone.

1) It would leave Toronto with an absolutely gaping hole in the middle. I like Chris Bosh a lot, but if they move both Ad and JYD, Bosh will be the only thing they have in the middle. And he's not ready to play in the middle. I guess they'd go with Marshall there, but that doesn't look like a very good deal if I were them. They need to keep either JYD or AD to hold down the front court. Probably AD because he's strong as an ox.

2) This would constitute a really big problem for us from a cap perspective. Relative to now:
03/04: -2.06M
04/05: -1.87M
05/06: -9.68M
06/07: 3.68M
07/08: -6.85M

Note that in this scenario, we've got almost $10M in additional salary on the books when we're due to re-sign Curry and Chandler. Without getting into the "willingness to pay" argument, that's a bunch of money, and it's for a guy (AD) who is a PF/C and wouldn't be playing much that last year.

Adding him looks pretty iffy to everyone involved, I think. Maybe if they'd take back instead of Marshall, but that wouldn't solve their problems either. They'd want to keep JYD to give them strength in the frontcourt, but I still don't think they'd be very strong with just him and Bosh there. I think that would be a deal-breaker but maybe they're willing to go small with Bosh and Marshall at the 5. Good luck to them if they are...


----------



## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

Do it and get it over with. 

Remember guys, Toronto it giving up JUST, 83.7 pts a game. They are trading us some of their defense for some of our offense. Makes sense, actually. 

They average just 77 pts. Carter needs Rose and Marshall.

We need defense all the way around. We have scoring with Gill, Chandler Curry and Crawford. And Fizer


----------



## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mikedc</b>!
> OK, while I was working through that, I see that people are hypothesizing AD, Marshall and Fizer added to the trade.
> 
> Let be state succinctly:
> ...


MikeDC, nice post as always.

For me, I could care less how Toronto's post defense is. AD is an ox as always, though his scoring has been down. It has also been noted that he didn't get off on the right foot w/ Kevin O'Neill and missed home (chicago) much. As I've said before, he has more good years in him and will solidify our mushy post defense.

Per salaries, I'll leave that up to the math brains here on BB.net to discuss. I can only assume Pax has gotten clearance from the organization to push this trade through.

Per the trade, I don't like the Alvin Williams part of it. I dunno his contract is troubling and so is his game. If we're stuck with him, I'm afraid we're lots more likely to trade Crawford.. something I don't want to do.


----------



## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

I've got 2 radios going, and CLTV on. i'm getting jumpy. I keep hearing the name Lyndon Johson due to JFK anniversary and i'm thinking linton Johnson in my head.


----------



## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

It will definitley be interesting to see who plays tonight for the Bulls!


----------



## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

me too. 

If Jamal plays, would be interesting to see what position!


----------



## MJG (Jun 29, 2003)

http://www.sportsline.com/nba/story/6853311

Nothing new, but it isn't just radio guys chatting about a potential deal any more. Someone on the Raptors board also said that the four potential trade-ees for them didn't travel with the team for their game tonight.


----------



## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>MJG</b>!
> http://www.sportsline.com/nba/story/6853311
> 
> Nothing new, but it isn't just radio guys chatting about a potential deal any more. Someone on the Raptors board also said that the four potential trade-ees for them didn't travel with the team for their game tonight.


no this is not normal suggestion/rumors/chatter

this is news from bulls upper management and stuff like that, normally TV stations such don't get involved...


----------



## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

So where it stands now:

We are trading Allstar Ron Artest, All star Brad miller and Ron Mercer for... the Williams's and Mo Pete.


----------



## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

*a davis story*

Before the season started, A Davis was at the Lifetime fitness in Naperville, IL working out.

When asked about the upcoming season, he indicated that he didn't like hoops anymore.

This makes me nervous.

A Williams play this season also makes me nervous. What has happened to this man?

A Davis and A Williams will be on our books for a long, long time.

Mo Pete is decent. I like the JYD.

We would be taking on a lot of contracts. 2 of them scare me.

Jalen may not be perfect, but at least he contributes. A Davis and A Williams..... i don't know.

Tuff call.


----------



## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>C.C.C.P</b>!
> So where it stands now:
> 
> We are trading Allstar Ron Artest, All star Brad miller and Ron Mercer for... the Williams's and Mo Pete.


ouch


----------



## Kismet (Mar 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>truebluefan</b>!
> Do it and get it over with.
> 
> Remember guys, Toronto it giving up JUST, 83.7 pts a game. They are trading us some of their defense for some of our offense. Makes sense, actually.
> ...


Everything you say is absolutely true. Add to your remarks the fact that Paxson would do almost anything to get rid of Rose (for reasons that go way beyond the size and length of his contract) and you have the makings of a deal.


----------



## JRose5 (May 4, 2003)

*Guess the movie.. *



> Originally posted by <b>C.C.C.P</b>!
> So where it stands now:
> 
> We are trading Allstar Ron Artest, All star Brad miller and Ron Mercer for... the Williams's and Mo Pete.


Pretty much yeah.
This is a very bad thing.


Dammit, I don't want them to move Jalen, especially to Toronto.
How am I gonna support him when he's on Toronto, I've never been able to stand them.

I've had a bad day and I hate the f'n Raptors! 



:upset:


----------



## Lizzy (May 28, 2002)

*Re: Guess the movie.. *



> Originally posted by <b>JRose5</b>!
> 
> 
> Pretty much yeah.
> ...


:| I'm not excited about any of those Raptors players. Maybe JYD.


----------



## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

When was Artest an allstar?


----------



## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

am 670:

Rose, EROB, Marshall

for

JYD, Williams, Peterson, and Davis

(rumored deal)

all TOR players traveled to New Jersey...


----------



## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>superdave</b>!
> 
> MikeDC, nice post as always.
> 
> ...


Alvin plays some nice D when healthy, I think you'll warm up to him.

As far as Toronto's D, I don't care either, but I'm just trying to figure why THEY'd do this. I don't see it. If they're willing, I certainly am.

Regarding the cap, if they take ERob, it becomes more tenable- in a Rose, ERob, Marshall, Fizer for AW, JYD, MP, AD trade, the Bulls relative change is 

03/04: 3.25M
04/05: 4.89M
05/06: -2.39M
06/07: 3.68M
07/08: -6.85M

We're still worsening our position when we need to re-sign the kids, but by getting rid of ERob, we're not worsening it by much, and it'll only be for that one year. That's still a risk (although, like you say, it's one that hopefully they have approval for up front), but it's a much lesser risk.

And it gives us a very solid group:

1 AW, Hinrich, JWill (IR)
2 Jamal, Gill, _MoPete_, Mason (IR)
3 Pip, MoPete, _(JYD)_, Lint (IR)
4 Chandler, JYD, Baxter
5 Curry, AD, Blount

Of course, that's kind of theoretically a lineup. In reality, JYD, AD, Gill, and MoPete would probably play as much as the starters, due to inneffectiveness and injury.

If this kind of deal goes through, we're REALLY going to be forced to play Jamal and we're going to have to RELY on him to score... he'll be the only guy we have that can create his own shot.

That's putting a lot of faith in a kid who's been the team whipping boy, ain't it?


----------



## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>HAWK23</b>!
> When was Artest an allstar?


This season Artest has been relentless. I was talking more along the lines of actual play then awards. There are only a handful of players that have contributed more then him this year.


----------



## JRose5 (May 4, 2003)

*Re: Re: Guess the movie.. *



> Originally posted by <b>Lizzy</b>!
> 
> 
> :| I'm not excited about any of those Raptors players. Maybe JYD.


Yea thats what i figure, at least he's a scrapper.
But Alvin Williams is not the answer.

Mo Pete was good at Michigan State.


----------



## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: a davis story*



> Originally posted by <b>kukoc4ever</b>!
> Before the season started, A Davis was at the Lifetime fitness in Naperville, IL working out.
> 
> When asked about the upcoming season, he indicated that he didn't like hoops anymore.
> ...


ADavis has been playing in basketball Siberia, all with his wife and kids settled in Chicago. Not an easy life I say. A nice article on that recently:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=aldridge_david&id=1661612



> Antonio makes the best of his situation
> Let's get one thing straight about Antonio Davis: He's not going to hold his breath until he's traded. He doesn't think Toronto is the worst city in the world. He'd just like to be closer to his family. Davis made the choice to come to Toronto three years ago instead of taking the Bulls' offer because he thought the Raptors were on the verge of breaking through in the East and doing something special. Now ... well, it's different
> 
> ....
> ...


----------



## C Blizzy (Nov 13, 2003)

Chicago trades: SF Jalen Rose (15.3 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 4.1 apg in 35.4 minutes) 
SF Eddie Robinson (3.8 ppg, 2.1 rpg, 1.1 apg in 17.3 minutes) 
SF Donyell Marshall (9.3 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 2.1 apg in 27.4 minutes) 
PF Marcus Fizer (5.5 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 0.3 apg in 9.5 minutes) 
Chicago receives: PF Antonio Davis (7.7 ppg, 10.1 rpg, 1.1 apg in 34.9 minutes) 
PG Alvin Williams (2.6 ppg, 1.7 rpg, 3.5 apg in 17.8 minutes) 
PF Jerome Williams (5.8 ppg, 9.8 rpg, 0.6 apg in 29.2 minutes) 
SF Morris Peterson (6.5 ppg, 1.8 rpg, 1.1 apg in 17.3 minutes) 
Change in team outlook: -11.3 ppg, +8.2 rpg, and -1.3 apg. 

Toronto trades: PF Antonio Davis (7.7 ppg, 10.1 rpg, 1.1 apg in 34.9 minutes) 
PG Alvin Williams (2.6 ppg, 1.7 rpg, 3.5 apg in 17.8 minutes) 
PF Jerome Williams (5.8 ppg, 9.8 rpg, 0.6 apg in 29.2 minutes) 
SF Morris Peterson (6.5 ppg, 1.8 rpg, 1.1 apg in 17.3 minutes) 
Toronto receives: SF Jalen Rose (15.3 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 4.1 apg in 12 games) 
SF Eddie Robinson (3.8 ppg, 2.1 rpg, 1.1 apg in 12 games) 
SF Donyell Marshall (9.3 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 2.1 apg in 12 games) 
PF Marcus Fizer (5.5 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 0.3 apg in 6 games)

That's the latest report from WSCR just a few minutes ago.


----------



## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>C Blizzy</b>!
> Chicago trades: SF Jalen Rose (15.3 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 4.1 apg in 35.4 minutes)
> SF Eddie Robinson (3.8 ppg, 2.1 rpg, 1.1 apg in 17.3 minutes)
> SF Donyell Marshall (9.3 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 2.1 apg in 27.4 minutes)
> ...


WOW. Fizer included too.

Works under CBA.


----------



## Lizzy (May 28, 2002)

Raptors fans are thrilled to be getting rid of A Davis. They say that D Marshall looks like Shaq compared to Davis. They're praying this deal goes down.


BAD SIGN

even with Rose's contract they're thrilled.


----------



## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>C Blizzy</b>!
> Chicago trades: SF Jalen Rose (15.3 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 4.1 apg in 35.4 minutes)
> SF Eddie Robinson (3.8 ppg, 2.1 rpg, 1.1 apg in 17.3 minutes)
> SF Donyell Marshall (9.3 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 2.1 apg in 27.4 minutes)
> ...


Ugghhh...If Pax does that he should be rode out of Chicago on a rail.


----------



## max6216 (Nov 27, 2002)

if this trade does happen at least the next time marion or stevie franchise go down the lane someone may actually put a body on them.


----------



## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

what are u talking about C Blizzy

WSCR didn't report that, I've been listning for the last hour... :sigh:


----------



## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

My only question here is if we are keeping JC as it appears we will be why the need for Alvin W?


----------



## kirk_hinrich1983 (Nov 21, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>C Blizzy</b>!
> Chicago trades: SF Jalen Rose (15.3 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 4.1 apg in 35.4 minutes)
> SF Eddie Robinson (3.8 ppg, 2.1 rpg, 1.1 apg in 17.3 minutes)
> SF Donyell Marshall (9.3 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 2.1 apg in 27.4 minutes)
> ...



remove fizer and it works on the trade checker


----------



## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>basghetti80</b>!
> My only question here is if we are keeping JC as it appears we will be why the need for Alvin W?


only things I can think of because then we will have AW, Crawford, and Hinrich is this:

1. Move Crawford to SG to assume Rose's role.

or

2. Crawford is as good as gone.


----------



## Jim Ian (Aug 6, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Lizzy</b>!
> Raptors fans are thrilled to be getting rid of A Davis. They say that D Marshall looks like Shaq compared to Davis. They're praying this deal goes down.
> 
> 
> ...



Just goes to show we are getting completly hosed on this deal. no one outside of some posters on this board and radio guys looking for a story think this is anywhere near a good deal for the Bulls.


----------



## rosenthall (Aug 1, 2002)

Goddamn, I just heard about this. All these deals are so goddamn big, I don't know what to make of them. But for the most part, I generally like it, except for the Alvin Williams part.


----------



## JRose5 (May 4, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>HAWK23</b>!
> 
> 
> only things I can think of because then we will have AW, Crawford, and Hinrich is this:
> ...



or

3) Leave AW in a dumpster somewhere


----------



## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>kirk_hinrich1983</b>!
> remove fizer and it works on the trade checker


Chicago trades: PF Marcus Fizer (5.5 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 0.3 apg in 9.5 minutes) 
SF Donyell Marshall (9.3 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 2.1 apg in 27.4 minutes) 
SF Eddie Robinson (3.8 ppg, 2.1 rpg, 1.1 apg in 17.3 minutes) 
SF Jalen Rose (15.3 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 4.1 apg in 35.4 minutes) 
Chicago receives: PF Jerome Williams (5.8 ppg, 9.8 rpg, 0.6 apg in 29.2 minutes) 
SF Morris Peterson (6.5 ppg, 1.8 rpg, 1.1 apg in 17.3 minutes) 
PG Alvin Williams (2.6 ppg, 1.7 rpg, 3.5 apg in 17.8 minutes) 
PF Antonio Davis (7.7 ppg, 10.1 rpg, 1.1 apg in 34.9 minutes) 
Change in team outlook: -11.3 ppg, +8.2 rpg, and -1.3 apg. 

Toronto trades: PF Jerome Williams (5.8 ppg, 9.8 rpg, 0.6 apg in 29.2 minutes) 
SF Morris Peterson (6.5 ppg, 1.8 rpg, 1.1 apg in 17.3 minutes) 
PG Alvin Williams (2.6 ppg, 1.7 rpg, 3.5 apg in 17.8 minutes) 
PF Antonio Davis (7.7 ppg, 10.1 rpg, 1.1 apg in 34.9 minutes) 
Toronto receives: PF Marcus Fizer (5.5 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 0.3 apg in 6 games) 
SF Donyell Marshall (9.3 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 2.1 apg in 12 games) 
SF Eddie Robinson (3.8 ppg, 2.1 rpg, 1.1 apg in 12 games) 
SF Jalen Rose (15.3 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 4.1 apg in 12 games) 
Change in team outlook: +11.3 ppg, -8.2 rpg, and +1.3 apg. 

TRADE ACCEPTED

Due to Chicago and Toronto being over the cap, the 15% trade rule is invoked. Chicago and Toronto had to be no more than 115% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


You have been assigned Trade ID number 1300500


----------



## JRose5 (May 4, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Jim Ian</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> Just goes to show we aer getting completly hosed on this deal. no one outside of some Bulls fans think this is anywhere near a good deal for the Bulls.



Agreed.
:| :dead:


----------



## Future (Jul 24, 2002)

Is this true? If so, thank God.

Mo Peete would give us the outside shooting we need... and J. Williams will give us the hustle. 

Don't like A Williams too much though.


----------



## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>JRose5</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


nah, Aaron Williams is a solid player... I like him defensively and he has some nice point guard skills, he can hit the 3, he can penetrate and dish... he will be our starter for sure assuming we move Crawford to SG.


----------



## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

If we ship Fizer... he'll get my vote for the "Artest/Miller make us look like fools for giving up on him" award.


----------



## JRose5 (May 4, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>HAWK23</b>!
> 
> 
> nah, Aaron Williams is a solid player... I like him defensively and he has some nice point guard skills, he can hit the 3, he can penetrate and dish... he will be our starter for sure assuming we move Crawford to SG.


Alvin.


----------



## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>C.C.C.P</b>!
> If we ship Fizer... he'll get my vote for the "Artest/Miller make us look like fools for giving up on him" award.


we're not going to move Fizer, I don't know why his name is being brought up, I haven't heard his name in any potential deals on 670, 720, 1000, websites, or CLTV... Fizer is just being mentioned here as a suggestion by someone else...


----------



## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>JRose5</b>!
> 
> Alvin.


Simon.


----------



## kirk_hinrich1983 (Nov 21, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>superdave</b>!
> 
> 
> Chicago trades: PF Marcus Fizer (5.5 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 0.3 apg in 9.5 minutes)
> ...



oh ok, because it also works if you remove marcus


----------



## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Future</b>!
> Is this true? If so, thank God.
> 
> Mo Peete would give us the outside shooting we need... and J. Williams will give us the hustle.
> ...


Raps haven't been playing Mo Peete because among other things they don't like his tude and his defense. Is this they player we want?


----------



## kirk_hinrich1983 (Nov 21, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>HAWK23</b>!
> 
> 
> we're not going to move Fizer, I don't know why his name is being brought up, I haven't heard his name in any potential deals on 670, 720, 1000, websites, or CLTV... Fizer is just being mentioned here as a suggestion by someone else...


yes people are confusing me here, fizer isnt neccesary to make the deal work, at least salarywise


----------



## Future (Jul 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>C.C.C.P</b>!
> 
> 
> Raps haven't been playing Mo Peete because among other things they don't like his tude and his defense. Is this they player we want?


Well, I thought Mo Peete was pretty good last year. 

I just don't think Jalen fits in with this team. I like Mo Peete and JYD.


----------



## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>kirk_hinrich1983</b>!
> 
> 
> yes people are confusing me here, fizer isnt neccesary to make the deal work, at least salarywise


These are the players you can play around with in your rumors/scenarios, because these are the guys I have heard from credible sources of being in a potential deal:

Bulls

Jalen Rose
Eddie Robinson
Donyell Marshall

Raptors

Alvin Williams
Jerome Williams
Morris Peterson
Antonio Davis



other than these 7 players I have not heard anyone else, and I have been listning to 670, 720, 1000, and CLTV... all Chicago based radio stations....

anything that suggests Fizer, or Crawford or anyone else consider it to be bogus for the time being...


----------



## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>C.C.C.P</b>!
> Raps haven't been playing Mo Peete because among other things they don't like his tude and his defense. Is this they player we want?


Its Kevin O'Neill we're talking about.

MoPete to O'Neill like Jamal to Cartwright.

MoPete was losing minutes to Michael Curry... like Alvin Williams was to Milt 'freakin' Palacio.


----------



## JRose5 (May 4, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>HAWK23</b>!
> 
> 
> These are the players you can play around with in your rumors/scenarios, because these are the guys I have heard from credible sources of being in a potential deal:
> ...



Hawk, what are the reports on the news saying, does it sound like its just about done, or just sound like rumors for the time being?


----------



## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Jim Ian</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> Just goes to show we are getting completly hosed on this deal. no one outside of some posters on this board and radio guys looking for a story think this is anywhere near a good deal for the Bulls.


Who else besides some people here and on the radio is talking about it?

A: No one.

Translation: You don't like the deal, but you thought it'd sound more authoritative if you assumed the majority of people think as you 

-----------------

Raptors fans are happy because the grass is always greener on the other side. Maybe Rose and Marshall are a better fit there than they are here. Maybe Milk Felatio as their starting PG and a rookie Chris Bosh as their starting center sound attractive to them 

There are some pretty clear downsides for the Raps, even though I see them potentially helping themselves. It's all very unclear.


----------



## Jim Ian (Aug 6, 2002)

> Originally posted by* JRose5!*
> 
> Alvin.
> 
> ...


Theodore.


----------



## Lizzy (May 28, 2002)

Listening to the Score you'd think we were trading for Jack Ruby.


----------



## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

If we can keep Marcus in that deal, that's cool... although I imagine we'd include Baxter because otherwise we'd still have to cut someone (in a 3 for 4 trade).


----------



## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>superdave</b>!
> 
> 
> Its Kevin O'Neill we're talking about.
> ...


This is true, Mo Pete could score the ball at times last year and really showed flashes his rookie year. I have never liked Oneil since his days at NU. I used to play music regularly at Evanston bars and he was always somewhere in the back sloshed out of his mind.


----------



## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mikedc</b>!
> 
> 
> Who else besides some people here and on the radio is talking about it?
> ...


Word. 

I get the sense that Toronto fans want someone.. any one to step up and score other than Vince. There are NO PLAYERS IN TOR that average 10ppg other than Vince. Adding Marshall and Rose will give them two more.

http://www.nba.com/raptors/stats/

Similarly, the Bulls are in need to defense defense defense, especially on the interior. How many time have we watched crappy open layups and uncontested shots in the lane? Adding two hounds to get after it, clean the boards, add toughness makes the deal palatable. Especialy with Chandler aching and Curry not showing much defensively.

Salaries are a concern.. but so is our defense. This trade makes us a ton better defensively. A.Davis will be a new man in Chicago, count on it


----------



## robg (Jul 19, 2002)

Wennington on 1000 espn and he is neither confirming nor dening the trade but he sure is answering "what if" as if the trade is going thru. 

Saids AD probably isn't in the deal, if of course,

tyson is sore but is gonna play
didn't do what he needed to this summer for his back to stay strong

wish eddy can post up like fizer, fizer rehabbed this summer instead of playing ball


----------



## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Jim Ian</b>!
> 
> Theodore.


Doo doo... doo doo doo doo

(thanks for the finish Jim!!! )


----------



## Happyface (Nov 13, 2003)

Quote:
--------------------
Just goes to show we aer getting completly hosed on this deal. no one outside of some Bulls fans think this is anywhere near a good deal for the Bulls.
------------------


Yeah, Rose is looked at in alot of circles outside of Chicago as an underrated All star, and thats why alot of Toronto fans are really happy. They look at it as getting a all star caliber player for essentially expendable roleplayers. Chicago fans tend to take Rose for granted, and they are unforgiving towards those that tend to take alot of shots who are streaky(Rose-Jamal). I think the mentality on this board in particular is a desire for hustle roleplayers that play good defense, and JYD fits that mold, which is why i think some Chicago fans are happy too.


----------



## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Lizzy</b>!
> Listening to the Score you'd think we were trading for Jack Ruby.


lol I know... Lizzy I thought you lived in CA? Are you in Chicago now or you got a live feed or something?


----------



## JRose5 (May 4, 2003)

:laugh: :laugh: 
I just got some spam email from 'Antonio Davis' asking me if I wanted perfect credit.

This is a sign!


----------



## C Blizzy (Nov 13, 2003)

> Chicago trades: SF Jalen Rose (15.3 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 4.1 apg in 35.4 minutes)
> SF Eddie Robinson (3.8 ppg, 2.1 rpg, 1.1 apg in 17.3 minutes)
> SF Donyell Marshall (9.3 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 2.1 apg in 27.4 minutes)
> PF Marcus Fizer (5.5 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 0.3 apg in 9.5 minutes)
> ...


In effect, we'd be trading for 80% of the Raptors' starting lineup for the past few years. Now, if none of them start for the Bulls, if they end up comprising our *second unit*, how does that possibly do anything but strengthen us? I know that's a very simplistic view of this transaction, but face it, we're giving up two regular rotation players for four. I like that kind of math.

It also brings us closer to seeing what a lot of us have hoped for: a backcourt combination of Hinrich and Crawford.

And do you think Curry might be slightly more motivated knowing he can now be replaced by Antonio Davis instead of Corrie Blount?

Our current roster doesn't like to play defense. We've added Bach and Adams and we're still one of the worst defensive teams in the league. This trade changes all that, doesn't it? How can this be a bad deal.

Tell you what: Turn some of these new guys loose in front of a Chicago crowd and you might just see some seriously intense basketball being played at the UC again. What is it they say about a change of scenery being good for a player? In this case I'd say every player mentioned in this trade might welcome a new address.


----------



## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>C.C.C.P</b>!
> 
> 
> Raps haven't been playing Mo Peete because among other things they don't like his tude and his defense. Is this they player we want?


his contract is up in '04, so we don't have to have him very long


----------



## Jim Ian (Aug 6, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mikedc</b>!
> 
> 
> Who else besides some people here and on the radio is talking about it?
> ...


Sorry for my leap of faith, i meant the majority of hoops fans who can see outside thier limited range of vision. :laugh:




> Raptors fans are happy because the grass is always greener on the other side. Maybe Rose and Marshall are a better fit there than they are here. Maybe Milk Felatio as their starting PG and a rookie Chris Bosh as their starting center sound attractive to them
> 
> There are some pretty clear downsides for the Raps, even though I see them potentially helping themselves. It's all very unclear.


No, it's pretty clear. We are getting taken, raw dog and deal. There isn't a actually upside for us, and there really isn't a downside for the raps. 

Rose and Marshall are the 2 best players in the deal... and we are giving them both up. For lesser players with longer contracts. Who can't even start over Milt 'freakin' Palacio, et al....

Other then the supposed "rift" between cartright and rose/marshall (your getting paid millions, work it out)... I don't see any benifit from the Bulls side other then the always fun "let's shake things up..."


----------



## Happyface (Nov 13, 2003)

I just heard confirmation on it from ESPN radio, but they were general about it only saying Jalen for some other players. 

Also, if Donyells involved that sucks. honestly, they shouldnt be giving up Jalen AND Donyell for that lot. The Bulls could do better.


----------



## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>HAWK23</b>!
> lol I know... Lizzy I thought you lived in CA? Are you in Chicago now or you got a live feed or something?


HAWK23 man.. where you been?!!

Let me catch you up on the past few months:
1) Lizzy moved to Chicago
2) Vin Diesel --> superdave
3) Arnold is governor of California
4) We're at war with Iraq
5) rlucas (from RealGM) is throwing down lately on our board
6) TB#1 had a kid
7) Cubs lost in the playoffs.. like this nerdy dude tried to catch a fly ball intended for Moises Alou
8) Jamal vs. Jay changed somehow to Jamal v. Kirk?!
9) Fire Cartwright!!! Or not!!
10) BB.net is as good as ever


----------



## JRose5 (May 4, 2003)

*no te gusta*



> Originally posted by <b>Happyface</b>!
> I just heard confirmation on it from ESPN radio, but they were general about it only saying Jalen for some other players.
> 
> Also, if Donyells involved that sucks. honestly, they shouldnt be giving up Jalen AND Donyell for that lot. The Bulls could do better.



I agree, seems a bit one sided.
:no: 

I really hope this doesn't pan out.


----------



## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Lizzy</b>!
> Listening to the Score you'd think we were trading for Jack Ruby.


But in all fairness, Ruby's got killer shooting touch :yes:


----------



## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Jim Ian</b>!
> 
> 
> Sorry for my leap of faith, i meant the majority of hoops fans who can see outside thier limited range of vision. :laugh:
> ...


This trade makes the Bulls tougher. Erob and Rose are soft. JYD is not. Davis gets 9-10 rebounds a game... but I have not seen him play in a while... so I don't remember. Alvin Williams is the type of PG they want... although I'm scared there is something wrong with him... his stats this season suck.

If they play JC at the 2 and let him play the part of Rose, I'm in favor of the trade. Williams/Hinrich at the PG. JYD/Pip at the 3. Chandler/Curry/A Davis/Fizer at the 4,5.

We're giving up our bad contracts for theirs... but theirs play D and don't need to shoot the ball 20 times a game.


----------



## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>superdave</b>!
> 
> 
> HAWK23 man.. where you been?!!
> ...


hey hey easy... lol

1. Welcome home
2. I know now!  
3. I would have voted for him 
4. When did this happen?
5. I actually DID notice that from the random times I've checked the boards over the last couple months.
6. Congrats TB, maybe thats why I haven't seen your posts in a while, good luck.
7. I watched all the Cubs games live and at first I wanted to kill the kid, now I sympathize for him ever since people camped out outside his house trying to kill him.
8. ehhh, I'll still take Jamal over Hinrich.
9. Keep Cartwright, what kind of sign does it show if we we're trying to keep our image straight by signing former bull scottie pippen and trying to show we care for all our past players, then just to fire one like BC... let's ride this out until MJ joins the organization and then take it from there.
10. I KNOW!


----------



## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>C Blizzy</b>!
> 
> It also brings us closer to seeing what a lot of us have hoped for: a backcourt combination of Hinrich and Crawford.


In the end this may be all that matters... I don't know why Jay/Jalen/JC were able to play together when Hinrich/JC/Rose aren't, but for some reason this has held true. I believe in Kirk and in the talent of Jamal. Maybe the space will be the impetus that will allow Jamal to flourish. Kinda' ironic when you think that Jamal patterned his game off of Rose's.


----------



## C Blizzy (Nov 13, 2003)

WSCR: Rose, Robinson and Marshall for Williams, Williams, Peterson and Davis. The deal will be consumated _after_ the Bulls/Laker game. They didn't say whether our guys would play tonight.


----------



## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>C Blizzy</b>!
> WSCR: Rose, Robinson and Marshall for Williams, Williams, Peterson and Davis. The deal will be consumated _after_ the Bulls/Laker game. They didn't say whether our guys would play tonight.


now this IS true, because I just heard it as well :yes:


----------



## Lizzy (May 28, 2002)

i HOPE he plays Jamal at SG. Geesh.


----------



## Happyface (Nov 13, 2003)

let me stipulate what i said earlier by saying if this was mainly done to free up money, then thats cool with me. I'm just looking at it from the non-money perspective.


----------



## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>C Blizzy</b>!
> WSCR: Rose, Robinson and Marshall for Williams, Williams, Peterson and Davis. The deal will be consumated _after_ the Bulls/Laker game. They didn't say whether our guys would play tonight.


Okay.

What is kind of strange is that this trade works whether Fizer is included or not (according to TradeChecker). Not sure how that is. As I've said before Davis and JYD make us a ton better defensively. We're taking a 1 year flier on MoPete as a long term solution at 2/3. Alvin Williams.. not sure what I think about him yet.


----------



## Wynn (Jun 3, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>superdave</b>!
> 
> 
> HAWK23 man.. where you been?!!
> ...


*Wynn!* is still an idiot!


----------



## elcocinero (Feb 10, 2003)

And we get rid of E-Rob


----------



## Nater (Jul 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Lizzy</b>!
> i HOPE he plays Jamal at SG. Geesh.


This is the selling point for me. If the deal isn't designed to make room for Jamal in the starting lineup, I don't like it.


----------



## C Blizzy (Nov 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>superdave</b>!
> 
> 
> Okay.
> ...


Whatever's ailing Alvin, he can take his time getting well. I think we're going to start to see Kirk and Jamal paired together. Whoever would have thought Paxson could have traded both Rose and Robinson away...and to the same team!


----------



## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Jim Ian</b>!
> 
> No, it's pretty clear. We are getting taken, raw dog and deal. There isn't a actually upside for us, and there really isn't a downside for the raps.
> 
> ...


It could be, I wouldn't disagree that it could. But it looks like a philosophical change also. I mean, would you deny that the four guys we are getting constitute a major defensive upgrade from the three guys we're reportedly giving up?

AD, JYD, AW, MoPete
vs.
Rose, Marshall, ERob

Throw out all the stats and just consider them as defensive players. The Bulls are clearly getting the better players WRT defense.

The question then becomes can we score with them on the court. To be successful here would seem to require the Bulls to put the load squarely on the shoulders of Jamal Crawford and Eddy Curry. Currently, they haven't been able to do it, but I would argue that changing roles around them might help them be more effective players. Put AD next to Curry and maybe he'll be more effective. Put Jamal in Rose's role, and maybe he'll be more effective. I dunno... it's a very big risk, but I can see how the players we're getting better complement the players we will keep and have to rely on. That's something.

From a cap perspective, the only thing that bothers me is the last year of AW's deal. Viewed year by year though, the effects are negligeable.


----------



## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Nater</b>!
> 
> 
> This is the selling point for me. If the deal isn't designed to make room for Jamal in the starting lineup, I don't like it.


also if we change Jamal to SG for sure it will completely destroy the whole PG controversey thing...

Hinrich KNOWS his role will be to backup Williams, Williams will KNOW he is the starter, and Jamal will KNOW he is the starter... hopefully that way everyone can be more confident, and play better together knowing they are playing WITH eachother rather than AGAINST each other...


----------



## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>HAWK23</b>!
> 
> 
> also if we change Jamal to SG for sure it will completely destroy the whole PG controversey thing...


If this trade goes down, what are we going to argue about?


----------



## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mikedc</b>!
> 
> From a cap perspective, the only thing that bothers me is the last year of AW's deal. Viewed year by year though, the effects are negligeable.


I'm nervous about having AD at that money for so long. He's not a young man. I'm nervous about AW as well.


----------



## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>C.C.C.P</b>!
> 
> 
> If this trade goes down, what are we going to argue about?




My guess is that they won't play Crawford for some reason. Gill vs. Crawford?


----------



## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

Can I interest you ina SG by the name of Bonzi?


----------



## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>C.C.C.P</b>!
> 
> 
> If this trade goes down, what are we going to argue about?


we'll find some way to make an Eddy Curry Jamal Crawford controversey....


----------



## elcocinero (Feb 10, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>kukoc4ever</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Wouldnt suprise me, they have already made Jamal the whipping boy so far.


----------



## C Blizzy (Nov 13, 2003)

Tonight???

*Hinrich, Crawford, Gill, Chandler and Curry*. Back 'em up with Pippen, Mason, Baxter, Blount, Fizer. Yikes!


----------



## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>C.C.C.P</b>!
> If this trade goes down, what are we going to argue about?


Bill Cartwright.

Rose was a malcontent and some have said so was Marshall. eRob has been garbage since he's been here and couldn't beat out Trent for minutes last year. We add toughness through this trade, another shooter and a capable PG.

No excuses Bill. Play better or start sending resumes to the NBDL.


----------



## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>C Blizzy</b>!
> Tonight???
> 
> *Hinrich, Crawford, Gill, Chandler and Curry*. Back 'em up with Pippen, Mason, Baxter, Blount, Fizer. Yikes!


Has this been announced?


----------



## Laid-Backness06 (Nov 9, 2003)

Wow. We should just dub our new 2nd unit the Raptors if the latest version of this deal goes through.


----------



## JRose5 (May 4, 2003)

Sigh, what the hell am I gonna do.
Change my avatar to the Raptors?

Thats like dressing up like a Nazi, I cant do it.

Do I change my name to KHinrich12? That doesnt have the same ring to it.

Maybe Ill just put a Michigan avatar.
And what about that Rose Swingman Jersey I was gonna pick up for Christmas? 

DAMN YOU ALL!
:upset: :upset: :upset: 



 :sigh:


----------



## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

wtf would our depth chart look like if we were to make this trade:

C-Curry/Davis/Blount
PF-Chandler/Fizer/JEROME?
SF-Pippen/Peterson/JEROME?
SG-Crawford/Gill/PETERSON?
PG-Williams/Hinrich

I'm having a problem seeing where and how much time Jerome will be playing... help?


----------



## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>JRose5</b>!
> Sigh, what the hell am I gonna do.
> Change my avatar to the Raptors?
> 
> ...


Jump on the Jamal Crawford all-star bandwagon? 
He went to UM!


----------



## C Blizzy (Nov 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>C.C.C.P</b>!
> 
> 
> Has this been announced?


No, I'm just wondering what we'd put on the floor tonight if the deal is actually consumated _before_ tipoff.


----------



## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>HAWK23</b>!
> wtf would our depth chart look like if we were to make this trade:
> 
> C-Curry/Davis/Blount
> ...


I think Jerome would be the starting 3. Pip gets his 15-20 like he was supposed to. 

I think Gill's minuets go down the most. I think Jerome plays over Mo Pete.


----------



## JRose5 (May 4, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>kukoc4ever</b>!
> 
> 
> Jump on the Jamal Crawford all-star bandwagon?
> He went to UM!



This is true, but he wasn't in the Fab Five, those are my boys.
We need to sign Ray Jackson, now.


----------



## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>JRose5</b>!
> Sigh, what the hell am I gonna do.
> Change my avatar to the Raptors?
> 
> ...


You should ask Mercerfan, Artestfan, GettingBranded, or JayWilll22.


----------



## Laid-Backness06 (Nov 9, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>C Blizzy</b>!
> 
> 
> No, I'm just wondering what we'd put on the floor tonight if the deal is actually consumated _before_ tipoff.


Even if the deal goes through after, I wonder if Rose, Erob, and Marshall will throw the game for us since we will be competition for them. That's if they play of course.


----------



## JRose5 (May 4, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>C.C.C.P</b>!
> 
> 
> You should ask Mercerfan, Artestfan, GettingBranded, or JayWilll22.



:laugh: :laugh:


----------



## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

OK, this is looking like a done deal then?

The Bulls trade
Rose, Marshall, ERob
for 
AD, JYD, AW, MP

Interesting question:

What's our new lineup?

My choice would maybe be to limit Tyson and AW (and even put them on IR until they are healthy) and go with:

1- Pip
2- Jamal
3- JYD
4- AD
5- Curry

and a second team of:
1- Kirk
2- Gill
3- MoPete/JYD
4- Fizer
5- Ad/Blount

If Tyson and AW can come back healthy, we look at:
1- AW, Kirk
2-Jamal, Gill/MoPete
3-Pip, JYD/MoPete
4-Tyson, AD/JYD/Fizer
5-Eddy, AD


----------



## Lizzy (May 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Schilly</b>!
> Can I interest you ina SG by the name of Bonzi?


LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That made me laugh in this time of darkness.


----------



## Parabull (Nov 4, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>JRose5</b>!
> Sigh, what the hell am I gonna do.
> Change my avatar to the Raptors?
> 
> ...


There's a store on the South Side that has awesome Fab Five t-shirts that you could get for Christmas. Maybe you could take a red sharpie and circle Jalen. :grinning:


----------



## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

SCORE 670 AM:

Robinson, Rose, and Marshall will ALL play tonight (Chandler will as well) but the deal still is likely to happen...


----------



## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mikedc</b>!
> OK, this is looking like a done deal then?
> 
> The Bulls trade
> ...


Wow, I really like having Pip as the PG. I like that lineup.

The thing is that we really have to limit his minutes, or he's going to be on and off IR all year.

Start Wililams when he gets back... cool.

I'd start JYD at the 3 when everyone is healthy so we don't play Pip too much.


----------



## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

They wouldn't be playing if the trade was consumated...score stirkes out again?


----------



## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>HAWK23</b>!
> SCORE 670 AM:
> 
> Robinson, Rose, and Marshall will ALL play tonight (Chandler will as well) but the deal still is likely to happen...


Doesn't this seem very, very strange?

Why on earth would you play them if the deal is going to happen? This might not be as close as we think.


----------



## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>kukoc4ever</b>!
> 
> 
> Doesn't this seem very, very strange?
> ...


just telling you what I heard...


----------



## C Blizzy (Nov 13, 2003)

Once the deal's done I'd throw Hinrich and Crawford out there together once and for all. No more playing games with these guys! Cleveland and Denver made commitments to rookies and its starting to pay off. Lets make a commitment to Kirk and Jamal and be done with it! It'll pay off in the long run.


----------



## RSP83 (Nov 24, 2002)

I smell another trade is coming that involves Jamal Crawford if this Jalen trade happens. If The Bulls trade Jalen for a space in the starting lineup for Jamal. Why would the Bulls bench Jamal a lot? If The Bulls do this trade early in the season, I wouldn't mind. Jamal still had his confidence, but now? Jamal is not the same Jamal he was at the end of last season nor at the pre-season.

That's why I think if Jalen will be traded, we will need a guy who can score. This woudln't be a problem if Eddy and Jamal can play like the end of last season, but I don't see it coming this early. So, if this trade happens, I think another trade is coming. It's going to acquire a capable scorer for Jamal. The latest rumor was Jamal for Eddie Jones... but if that's the best John Paxson can come up with... this season will be a wash!! Throw in Caron Butler then I'm going to be fine.


----------



## FJ_of _Rockaway (May 28, 2002)

What I don't understand in all of this is why ITF would Kevin O'Neil allow GG to lose 3 key defenders

A key to the Raps semi resurgence has been Kevin O'Neil's insistence of defense and team D and he now loses the heart of their interior D ( AD ) a versatile forward defender who can guard inside and out in JYD and Alvin Williams who is a faair to moderate perimeter defender 

And the Raps don't upgrade their defense 

They get Rose and Marshall.. not noted defenders and ERob .. also not a noted defender 

I thought the Raps were looking for an inside presence which is why they had been talking to the Knicks about Harrington

What does the Raps's point guard rotation look like ?

Nominally the Raps look better but they better put up a bunch of points because they have lost their defensive core if this deal goes through

I just can't see it being done.

Colour me in as an Official doubting Thomas


----------



## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>HAWK23</b>!
> 
> 
> just telling you what I heard...


oh... i was not challenging you... you posting all this has made my afternoon! thanks!


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

In all seriousnous this deal if it does happen will leave Chicago loaded i the front court and PG and thin at SG.

Maybe a deal like Wells and a 2004 1st for Crawford and Fizer would be in the interest of the Bulls. Fizer will have dropped behind JYD and Davis on the depth chart.

BTW word is Portland just Wiaved Tracy Murray who was on the active roster. SPeculation is either they are happy with Matt Carroll or they are making room for a 1 for 2 ofr a 1 for 3 deal.

Also GM John Nash said last week that he had spoken to Paxson and there is a chicago player who wants to be in Portland.

Probably been watching too much X-Files, but it is interesting.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>kukoc4ever</b>!
> 
> 
> I'm nervous about having AD at that money for so long. He's not a young man. I'm nervous about AW as well.


AD is old, it's true, but I was watching the Raps last week and I was amazed. AD looks like he's freakin carved out of granite. He looked really good and was moving well

He's got to last, that's for sure, but for comparison's sake, when he's done with his contract, he'll still be younger than Oakley was when we picked him up the second time. And Oakley will quite productive in his three seasons prior to coming here and falling apart. Plus, his last year, we will hopefully not be looking at big minutes as Curry and Chandler emerge... rather, he becomes a tradeable expiring contract.

Basically, I view it as the equivalent of paying a little more for ERob, but getting a much better player.


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## C Blizzy (Nov 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>kukoc4ever</b>!
> 
> 
> Doesn't this seem very, very strange?
> ...


Could have something to do with Chandler's and Crawford's health. If they're limited and Rose, Robinson and Marshall are out we're effectively down to seven players, including Fizer and Pippen who aren't exactly the pictures of full health either. I also understand a number of the guys including Curry and Pippen are fighting bad colds.


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## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>kukoc4ever</b>!
> 
> 
> oh... i was not challenging you... you posting all this has made my afternoon! thanks!


ok cool




> > Originally posted by <b>Schilly</b>!
> > In all seriousnous this deal if it does happen will leave Chicago loaded i the front court and PG and thin at SG.
> >
> > Maybe a deal like Wells and a 2004 1st for Crawford and Fizer would be in the interest of the Bulls. Fizer will have dropped behind JYD and Davis on the depth chart.
> ...


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>C.C.C.P</b>!
> They wouldn't be playing if the trade was consumated...score stirkes out again?


Man, they'll look really stupid if that happens.


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mikedc</b>!
> 
> 
> Man, they'll look really stupid if that happens.


Not any more stupid then they looked after the Dmiles-to-Chicago trade they announced last year. Its in the Score's best intetersts to be reckless with the news... now a very good enviornment for journalistic integrity.


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## FJ_of _Rockaway (May 28, 2002)

C'mon guys .. do we hunger for a trade that badly ?

Think people!

Toronto deals AD and gets no Center back.. hence.. they have no Center unless you want to count Jerome Moisty and Mengke Bateer

Hakeem and Monstrosity ( both retired ) don't count 

ERob is supposedly in the deal. If this deal goes through they will have Rose and Vince as their back court and then ERob, Lamond Murray .. Chris Jeffries .. Bosch is too tiny to play in the paint right now for extended periods so he'll see time at the small forward in his development for a couple of years

Which leaves them with Yell and Mick Bradley at PF .. still no genuine inside defense

And where's their point guard ... Milt Felatio ( he blows ) and Slick Rick .. of yeah I forgot 

If this deal happens as presently constituted I reckon we make out like bandits and I'm starting "The John Pax just busted your GM's arse and he didn't even have the decency to apply the KY" Club


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## FJ_of _Rockaway (May 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>C.C.C.P</b>!
> 
> 
> Not any more stupid then they looked after the Dmiles-to-Chicago trade they announced last year. Its in the Score's best intetersts to be reckless with the news... now a very good enviornment for journalistic integrity.


Its not on the news wires that I can see


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## Kneepad (Jun 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>C Blizzy</b>!
> WSCR: Rose, Robinson and Marshall for Williams, Williams, Peterson and Davis. The deal will be consumated _after_ the Bulls/Laker game. They didn't say whether our guys would play tonight.


I like this trade a lot for the Bulls.

Finally we have some players who will play some defense and will hustle. The Bulls just became a _much_ improved defensive team. They should be a lot more fun to watch.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>FJ_of _Rockaway</b>!
> C'mon guys .. do we hunger for a trade that badly ?
> 
> Think people!
> ...


I am starting to agree. This makes little sense for Toronto.... unless they want to be Mavs east, which maybe they do.

I like this trade for the Bullies. I'm tired of rooting for a soft team.


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## BCH (Jun 25, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>FJ_of _Rockaway</b>!
> C'mon guys .. do we hunger for a trade that badly ?
> 
> Think people!
> ...


I don't think it is that great of a trade for either club. I think if it goes through as has been speculated here, there are no winners. It would seem to me that the Bulls are throwing in the towel for this season.


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## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

Think about this defensive lineup for the end of a game:

C-Davis
PF-Jerome Williams
SF-Pippen
SG-Gill
PG-Alvin Williams


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## Lizzy (May 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>HAWK23</b>!
> Think about this defensive lineup for the end of a game:
> 
> C-Davis
> ...


It'll be like watching the Pistons.

(I'd rather watch the Mavs)


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## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Lizzy</b>!
> 
> 
> It'll be like watching the Pistons.
> ...


well then we could put our Mav-like team in:

PG-Crawford
SG-Peterson
SF-Pippen
PF-Fizer
C-Curry


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## Lizzy (May 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>HAWK23</b>!
> 
> 
> well then we could put our Mav-like team in:
> ...


Seeing this makes me want to cry.

I hope this means we see:

Hinrich - (Wiliams)
Crawford - (Gill)
Peterson - (Pippen)
Chandler - (Williams)
Curry - (Davis)

I know we won't. Why would BC play Jamal at sg now?


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## dkg1 (May 31, 2002)

ESPN 1000 just reported that there will likely be no deal before the weekend.
I like the deal. We get a lot more defensive toughness. Granted it may make us a little short of depth on the wings, but another deal would have to be in the works for more perimeter help.


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

Let me stir the pot a little. Maybe the deal won't be made until later tonight, because it is 1 of 2 deals. I know I am a BLazer fan I have to find a way to involve Portland, but here's what I am thinking.

Bonzi is serving hos last game of suspension tonight, I don't think suspended players can be traded. Maybe they are waiting to consumate this deal pending Bonzi Wells being traded to Chicago?


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## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Lizzy</b>!
> 
> 
> Seeing this makes me want to cry.
> ...


I hope this means that Crawford HAS to play SG since we will have 3 PGs...

PG-Williams/Hinrich
SG-Crawford/Gill

(I think Williams will start over Hinrich)


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## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>dkg1</b>!
> ESPN 1000 just reported that there will likely be no deal before the weekend.
> I like the deal. We get a lot more defensive toughness. Granted it may make us a little short of depth on the wings, but another deal would have to be in the works for more perimeter help.


I don't think we need perimeter help?

we have:

Alvin Williams
Kurt Hinrich
Jamal Crawford
Kendall Gill
Morris Peterson

Williams and Hinrich are both PGs
Crawford is PG/SG
Gill is SG/SF
Peterson is SG/SF


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## dkg1 (May 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Lizzy</b>!
> 
> 
> Seeing this makes me want to cry.
> ...


I was thinking the same thing earlier, Lizzy. You would think the make up of our roster would force BC to play JC in the backcourt with Kirk. However, BC is so damn stubborn he would probably start AW at SG and keep JC as the backup PG.


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## Nater (Jul 10, 2002)

For your reading pleasure (and to pass the time until there's something new reported on this trade), here is the 

Offical Blockbuster Trade, Reported by the Score, but Never Consummated, Vol. 1 

(aka "The D-Miles Trade").


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

Can we move this thread to the Blazers forum, we need the post count... 

Anyway I can see this deal from Toronto's POV they have been looking to move Davis and Peterson often with the 2 Williams attached, and there seems to have been little concern about the 5 position. Toronto is not playing well and it could be that they are more interested at this point in developing Bosh.

I like many others can't see this deal from Chicago's POV unless there is more to it. 

Odd things are amiss in Portland as well, so I wouldn't be surprised to see that they are actively involved in this whiole scenario as well.

Ther has been word that a Chicago player wants to be a Blazer and IIRC Crawford is from the NW.


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## dkg1 (May 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>HAWK23</b>!
> 
> 
> I don't think we need perimeter help?
> ...


I'm talking in terms of a true "3". Mo Pete physically is better suited to play SG in my opinion. Scottie is old as hell, he could fall apart at any moment. If we lose Pip, Mo Pete is our only true 3, correct? I know some people have mentioned Jerome Williams at the 3, but he has no offensive perimeter game. 

Also, just by looking at our power forward logjam, another deal would have to be in the works to clear that up. PF's : Tyson, Fizer, Jerome Williams, Baxter. Also, there may times when BC may want to play Davis at 4 with EC at 5.


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## Happyface (Nov 13, 2003)

You forgot to include Donyell in your scenario for Toronto. Donyell could play 4, and rebounds well. He can also play perimeter which i love about Donyell. Then they could stick some scrubb in at Center and just tell him to play hustle defense. So toronto looks abit better with that in mind. I doubt E-Rob would start.


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## BCH (Jun 25, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>HAWK23</b>!
> 
> 
> I don't think we need perimeter help?
> ...


Alvin Williams has been woeful this season. Mo Pete is struggling to shoot 40% in his career and is actually shooting it better from the arc, than from 2 pt land this season. If either of these guys was a perimeter scorer of quality, the desperate for offense Raptors would not be dealing them.

As for Jerome and Antonio, they will get boards, and Jerome will play annoying defense, though not Artestian defense. These are useable guys, moreso than the guards in my opinion, but the Raptors have to give up something to get something.

My concerns for the Bulls are with AD. He has decent rebounding numbers this year, but I saw him twice against the Wizards and was hardly impressed. I am not sold on his defensive abilities.

I think the Bulls can do better by trading Rose closer to the Trade Deadline. Remember, it is going to take a while for these guys to mesh into the Bulls offense, and by then it may be took late anyway.


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

Portland/Chicago

Wells and a pick for Crawford and Fizer.

I know I sound like I am pullin noodles out of my ear, but bear with me here.

In Portland GM John Nash said last week that he had been in contact with Jon Paxson. He also said he had spoken with the agent that represents Eddie Curry and Jamaal Crawford.

He said he was contacted by that agent as a unnamed Bull wants to be in Portland.

Jamaal is from the Seattle are and Seattle is only a 2 1/2 hour Drive from Portland.

Chicago is making a deal that seemingly leaves them stocked at PG and overstuffed at PF.

Word is Scottie Pippen loves Bonzi Wells, thinks he is a special player.

Bonz is not happy in Portland, and likely will be moved so he can have a fresh start with out the Sheed influence.

Ok I know I am buildiong a winderful conspiracy, but it does start to make some sense.


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## BCH (Jun 25, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Schilly</b>!
> Portland/Chicago
> 
> Wells and a pick for Crawford and Fizer.
> ...


In all honesty, if the first deal went down, I could see this happening.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>kukoc4ever</b>!
> 
> 
> I am starting to agree. This makes little sense for Toronto.... unless they want to be Mavs east, which maybe they do.
> ...


That's what I was thinking earlier... so much for being "Official" (although these buffoons managed to get us all worked up and get it on CBSSportsline and RealGM as well).

Anyway, like I was saying, and like you and FJ and BCH are pointing out, where does this leave Toronto? I mean, I'd do the trade, but here's what they get:

1- Pilacio, Brunson
2- Vince, ERob
3- Rose, Murray
4- Marshall, Baxter, Bradley
5- Bosh, Moiso

That's a solid 2/3/4, but does 1 and 5 scare anyone? They get CBA quality 1s. Bosh has a nice future ahead of him, but right now that could be really ugly.

If this thing doesn't go through tonight, I think it doesn't go through at all, and I'll be pissed for wasting so much time talking about it


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## ViciousFlogging (Sep 3, 2003)

if Bonzi wasn't such a lunatic, I'd be OK with the Portland deal going through later on. Bonzi could be a more effective #1 guy than Rose for us, in my opinion, and he plays a little bit of defense too, though he's not a stopper. 

I'm not ready to deal Craw yet, though...but we might as well if Bill and Pax are convinced he doesn't fit and leave him on the pine.


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mikedc</b>!
> 
> 
> That's what I was thinking earlier... so much for being "Official" (although these buffoons managed to get us all worked up and get it on CBSSportsline and RealGM as well).
> ...


I hear ya there, but all of the rumors of Deals with Toronto, don't leave me with the impression that they are all that concerned.


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## Lizzy (May 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mikedc</b>!
> 
> 
> That's what I was thinking earlier... so much for being "Official" (although these buffoons managed to get us all worked up and get it on CBSSportsline and RealGM as well).
> ...


Or

1. Rose, Brunson
2. Vince, E-Rob, Rose
3. Murray, E Rob
4. Marshall, Bradley
5. Bosh, Bateer


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## ViciousFlogging (Sep 3, 2003)

obviously Toronto is just trying to free up time for their prized FA acquisition, Rick Brunson.


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ViciousFlogging</b>!
> if Bonzi wasn't such a lunatic, I'd be OK with the Portland deal going through later on. Bonzi could be a more effective #1 guy than Rose for us, in my opinion, and he plays a little bit of defense too, though he's not a stopper.
> 
> I'm not ready to deal Craw yet, though...but we might as well if Bill and Pax are convinced he doesn't fit and leave him on the pine.


I hear ya. A lot speculate that Bonzi is an impressionable person ewho unfortunately has latched into following Sheed. It would be interesting to see how he would be without that influence. MAny say they feed off each other.

Bonzi has worn out his welcome in Portland, but that doesn't mean that he wouldnt prosper elsewhere.


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## Lizzy (May 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>HAWK23</b>!
> 
> 
> I hope this means that Crawford HAS to play SG since we will have 3 PGs...
> ...


Go to NBA.com and see what Alvin Williams is bringing to the table and then check his salary. He's worse than having E-Rob. Shooting 20% from the field.


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

How about this for Toronto
PG Rose
SG Carter
SF Marshall
PF Bosh
C Moiso

I know Moiso hasn't looked great, buit all he needs to do is play a little D and get rebounds.


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## ViciousFlogging (Sep 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Lizzy</b>!
> 
> 
> Go to NBA.com and see what Alvin Williams is bringing to the table and then check his salary. He's worse than having E-Rob. Shooting 20% from the field.


ok, but look at his stats the 2 years previous...11-13ppg and 5 assists on 41-43% shooting. It's widely known that he is playing hurt and I think that could account for a lot of his current woes. If we don't trade Crawford, we could certainly afford to put him on IR for a while to heal up if necessary. and AW also plays defense.


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## Happyface (Nov 13, 2003)

Ha, Bonzi just dogged Mo Cheeks AGAIN publically, cussing him out and yelling at him. There is no way Portland can keep him. And people get all over Jamal when all he did was voice his dissatisfaction with the benching in the newspapers, Bonzi makes Jamal look like a model team player in comparison.


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## dkg1 (May 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Schilly</b>!
> 
> I hear ya. A lot speculate that Bonzi is an impressionable person ewho unfortunately has latched into following Sheed. It would be interesting to see how he would be without that influence. MAny say they feed off each other.
> 
> Bonzi has worn out his welcome in Portland, but that doesn't mean that he wouldnt prosper elsewhere.



I would love to see Bonzi on the Bulls if for no other reason than to watch him scream at Bonehead Bill as he pulls him out of the game. Many fans could live vicariously through Bonzi as he screams at BC.


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

It was the addition of Oakley that finally sent Floyd to the grave. Maybe Bonzi could take care of BC?


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>JRose5</b>!
> Sigh, what the hell am I gonna do.
> Change my avatar to the Raptors?
> 
> ...



How about the poster formerly known as JRose5


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## bfan1 (Mar 5, 2003)

Schilly,
I am crushed that you have come to the Bulls house to dis' my player!



> I hear ya. A lot speculate that Bonzi is an impressionable person ewho unfortunately has latched into following Sheed. It would be interesting to see how he would be without that influence. Many say they feed off each other.
> 
> Bonzi has worn out his welcome in Portland, but that doesn't mean that he wouldnt prosper elsewhere.


Don't be puttin' all the blame on Sheed. Just as Bonzi can flourish in Chicago (with Pip to reign him in-as we know he can) Sheed will flourish without Bonzi!

Keep Sheed, bye Bonzi...I'm all for it. Better for us, better for Bonzi.

don't mind me Chi-town...just helping you pad your post count  I had a bone to pick.


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## dkg1 (May 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Lizzy</b>!
> 
> 
> Go to NBA.com and see what Alvin Williams is bringing to the table and then check his salary. He's worse than having E-Rob. Shooting 20% from the field.



AW has an expensive contract, right? When does his deal expire?


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## Lizzy (May 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>dkg1</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> AW has an expensive contract, right? When does his deal expire?


Not sure. I thought it was 5 million for 4 years but I have to check. All of them but Mo Pete have bad contracts for what they produce. But I guess so do rose and robinson.

**5 more years at about 6 million per year**

so...worse than E-Rob.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>bfan1</b>!
> Schilly,
> I am crushed that you have come to the Bulls house to dis' my player!
> 
> ...


:uhoh: I see a fight coming on. :grinning:


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>bfan1</b>!
> Schilly,
> I am crushed that you have come to the Bulls house to dis' my player!
> 
> ...


I didn't think they would care how Sheed would respond in Portland. But I did say they feed off each other. :angel:


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## ViciousFlogging (Sep 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Lizzy</b>!
> 
> 
> Not sure. I thought it was 5 million for 4 years but I have to check. All of them but Mo Pete have bad contracts for what they produce. But I guess so do rose and robinson.
> ...


the salary is about the same, but the length is tough to swallow.

he's been more consistent until the beginning of this season, though. Tough to know how much of it is injuries vs. just struggling.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

BCH. The Toronto part of the deal had me wondering as well. Leaves Toronto very short. Unless they want to develop Bosh. Marshall gives them some boards, but not as much as they lost! 

I agree, no real winners in the deal, but it does address needs for both teams. 

I personally think AW will be allowed to heal, unless a crawford trade is in the works.


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## chifaninca (May 28, 2002)

I will miss Marshall and Rose, but I can't believe that some are bashing Mo Pete and Alvin Williams. It wasn't that long ago when we were hoping that Mo Pete would be drafted by the Bulls and that A Williams would be signed as a FA.

This trade gives us alot of what we don't have - 

Toughness - Let's let JYD and A Davis beat the crap out of the stay puft C - Eddy Curry. Eddy needs to get angry and want to destroy people. Corie Blount isn't going to do that. Plus, I'm tired of Shawn Marion, Steve Francis and others commenting about feeling a breeze while they drove unabaited down the lane for easy buckets all night against the Matadors...err, I mean the Bulls.

Mo Pete is still a young guy who has shown the ability to light it up from outside and he does play D.

A Williams is an uptempo PG who can score and is average at D. Rather have him than Hinrich right now. I know, Hinrich's a rookie - Williams is playing hurt....It's the Bulls baby - No Excuses!


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## Nater (Jul 10, 2002)

If this thread is set to be going for a while... can we fix the title? First of all, the names are butchered (Boers and Bernstein). Secondly, it contains no description of the thread contents - hence separate threads already being started.

Thanks!


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## Jim Ian (Aug 6, 2002)

I don't like including Marshall at all.

Chicago trades: SF Jalen Rose (15.3 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 4.1 apg in 35.4 minutes) 
SF Eddie Robinson (3.8 ppg, 2.1 rpg, 1.1 apg in 17.3 minutes) 

Chicago receives: SF Morris Peterson (6.5 ppg, 1.8 rpg, 1.1 apg in 17.3 minutes) 
PF Antonio Davis (7.7 ppg, 10.1 rpg, 1.1 apg in 34.9 minutes) 
PF Jerome Williams (5.8 ppg, 9.8 rpg, 0.6 apg in 29.2 minutes) 
Change in team outlook: +0.9 ppg, +15.3 rpg, and -2.4 apg. 

Toronto trades: SF Morris Peterson (6.5 ppg, 1.8 rpg, 1.1 apg in 17.3 minutes) 
PF Antonio Davis (7.7 ppg, 10.1 rpg, 1.1 apg in 34.9 minutes) 
PF Jerome Williams (5.8 ppg, 9.8 rpg, 0.6 apg in 29.2 minutes) 

Toronto receives: SF Jalen Rose (15.3 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 4.1 apg in 12 games) 
SF Eddie Robinson (3.8 ppg, 2.1 rpg, 1.1 apg in 12 games) 

Change in team outlook: -0.9 ppg, -15.3 rpg, and +2.4 apg. 

*TRADE ACCEPTED*
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Trade ID # 1301047

Bulls: 
Crawford/Hinrich
Pippen/Gill
MoPete/JYD(DY)
Chandler/Marshall(JYD)
Curry/AD

Raptors:
Alvin
Rose
Carter
Bosh
????


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## RoRo (Aug 21, 2002)

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Basketball/NBA/Toronto/2003/11/19/262451.html



> He has played hurt, has stepped up when called upon, but Williams' early season has been one of sitting on the bench and wondering about his role under O'Neill.
> 
> Under Lenny Wilkens, a Hall of Fame point guard, Williams basically could do whatever he wanted with the ball in his hands. Under Wilkens, Williams never was discouraged from taking shots or from taking over games, be it early in the shot clock or late in crunch time.
> 
> O'Neill's point guards are asked to be facilitators on offence. Their job description is to get the ball in the hands of Vince Carter in the right spot.


sounds like even if he is healthy, he'll need to adjust to bc's system as well.


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## C Blizzy (Nov 13, 2003)

http://www.sportsline.com/nba/story/6853311

Here's cbsSportsline's take on the trade.


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## C Blizzy (Nov 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>C Blizzy</b>!
> http://www.sportsline.com/nba/story/6853311
> 
> Here's cbsSportsline's take on the trade.


BTW, too many sportswires reporting on this for it not to be true, in some form.


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## dkg1 (May 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>C.C.C.P</b>!
> They wouldn't be playing if the trade was consumated...score stirkes out again?


Actually WGN 720 was the first station to report of this trade.


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## Athlon33.6 (Jul 31, 2003)

Whooooooooooooa!  I like the trade! Holy smokes! This is big for us!


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## Trader Ed (Jun 17, 2002)

Any more news gentlemen?

Portland is waiting with baited breath



:topic:

Would you guys be interested in Doc Rivers as a coach?


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