# Offseason plan?



## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

1)Match any offer to JJ that's not a max. And if someone does, we may have to think about getting McCants in the draft.

2)Extend Amare.

3)Sign SOMETHING in the middle but to where it doesn't slow us down, and slide everyone down. Amare to PF, Marion to SF, JJ and Nash stay where they're at. Move Q to the bench with Jim Jackson. 


4)Sign or draft a big body a long with this for the bench. Or McCants regardless if we keep JJ or not. He's someone else to come off the bench



Any ideas on who to get in the middle or who to draft or sign to get some toughness on the bench? 

Seattle gave the Spurs fits cuz they matched their physical play. Who's to say they don't win with Radmonvich and Rashard. We don't know. They matched up better with Spurs than we have.


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## Carbo04 (Apr 15, 2005)

My guess would be to somehow get Stro Swift. Drafting McCants is also good.


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## 1 Penny (Jul 11, 2003)

I was about to start the same thread.

Anyways, I think the suns will need to trade one of Q/JJ/Marion.

Im a huge fan of Marion, but Amare seriously needs a legit center who can run the court with the pace. Marion and JJ are the 2 strongest tradable players.

I really like Chandler or a Dalembert.

Drafting a big guy, unless the suns get lucky, will not really fill the missing piece.

The run and gun uptempo should stay, but we need to get a defensive mind set also.

The spurs in Game 1, 2 and 3 have played like the suns but with key defensive stop capabilities.

Hunter could be utilized more, but if he can be packaged with Q to get another big atheletic guy, the suns should do it.


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## carlos710 (Jun 13, 2002)

I dont think you can get swift with the MLE, teams like atlanta and even the grizzlies are going to offer more IMO
perhaps a sign and trade could be done, but the grizzlies are already loaded with swingmans so i doubt they want richardson.

anyway, the suns would be better with chandler or dalembert IMO


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## RJ May (Feb 10, 2004)

I'm not saying trade Marion, but I'm really starting to doubt if he can have any type of success against the spurs. He's making way too much money to put up 7/10. 

I really believe JJ or Marion will be gone next year.


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## carlos710 (Jun 13, 2002)

RJ May said:


> I'm not saying trade Marion, but I'm really starting to doubt if he can have any type of success against the spurs. He's making way too much money to put up 7/10.
> 
> I really believe JJ or Marion will be gone next year.


you guys want swift, and i think the grizzlies could really use marion for his rebounding and atleticism, what could be enough from suns perspective to get marion into memphis ??

swift + posey + #19 pick?

you get more depth and posey is adecuate shooter and good defender, he also can run on the fast break.
with the #19 you can get another player to develop or perhaps a young atletic center


Nash / Barbosa
Johnson / Jackson
Richardson / Posey
Swift / Mcarty / #19
Amare / MLE / Hunter

or perhaps swift + cardinal + #19, cardinal can play a little of PF, he hustles a lot and is a good 3 pt shooter who whorks very hard.


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## jibikao (Nov 14, 2004)

Dude, this series ain't over yet... 

Save this thread for later.


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## carlos710 (Jun 13, 2002)

jibikao said:


> Dude, this series ain't over yet...
> 
> Save this thread for later.


most teams forums already have an offseason thread(including spurs)

it doesnt means the series is over, guessing about the future and how to improve a team is fun :biggrin:


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

1 Penny said:


> I was about to start the same thread.
> 
> Anyways, I think the suns will need to trade one of Q/JJ/Marion.
> 
> ...



I don't think we'll trade anyone unless we get something that screams impact. 

Like a Marion or JJ and our #1 for Artest as example. Or just a big guy like Dalembert or Chandler. I like Dalembert of the two but he's not a sure thing really. Artest would give us a stopper. Lets see teams get physical with him but I know that's prolly a long shot.


But for the draft, a big guy I like is Channing Frye. He's pretty athletic, can pass, rebound, block shots, he can run the floor. Has pretty good post moves, and can hit mid range shots. He's improved every yr at Arizona. He's fundamentally sound. Although his stock is rising so takes him out of reach unless we trade up.


I would like to say though, people are being unfair to Marion though. He had one bad series. And everyone throws out how they knew this or how they knew that or how he's overrated...blah blah blah. Like they waited for him to not do something. Meanwhile a lot of people are like he's our X factor, our mvp or glue that keeps us together.


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## Carbo04 (Apr 15, 2005)

All you people saying trade Marion are nuts. Phoenix needs to extend Amare, and JJ. Keep Nash, Marion, Q, and Jimmy. Work HARD in the offeason with Hunter. He has all the tools, and you can see the flashes. Time to bring him out in full force. Same for Barbosa. Draft Rashad McCants, or Kennedy Winston if McCants is gone. Then try to get Stromile Swift in the offseason. He's perfect for run/gun.


PG: Nash / Barbosa
SG: Johnson / McCants
SF: Marion / Q / Jackson
PF: Amare / McCarty
C: Stro Swift / Hunter


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## sheefo13 (Jul 13, 2002)

Yeah McCants would fit really well here.


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## Kekai (Jan 12, 2005)

BaronMcGrady said:


> All you people saying trade Marion are nuts. Phoenix needs to extend Amare, and JJ. Keep Nash, Marion, Q, and Jimmy. Work HARD in the offeason with Hunter. He has all the tools, and you can see the flashes. Time to bring him out in full force. Same for Barbosa. Draft Rashad McCants, or Kennedy Winston if McCants is gone. Then try to get Stromile Swift in the offseason. He's perfect for run/gun.
> 
> 
> PG: Nash / Barbosa
> ...




I agree with you. Marion ain't going no where. We wouldn't be here where we are without what he has done for us. Stop blaming him and giving up on him. Its getting annoying all the blame is put on him. He did so much for us this year so stop whining. We will have the same lineup next year. Why Swift though? He sucks at rebounding.

Nash
JJ
Q
Marion
Amare

Jackson
Barbosa
Blatche
Hunter


Should be good. We won't have money to sign those FA's. but if we do I don't want Swift. Haslem would be a heck of a lot better.


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

We need to get a rookie who can make some impact right away whether it be minuscule. Not someone who will be a project.


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## 1 Penny (Jul 11, 2003)

That was my other thought..

Hunter is the perfect center for the suns. He just need to work hard this off season to get more muscle so he can box out a lot better. He is a tremendous shot blocker, he just needs to be able to box out better.

The current line-up
C: Amare
PF: Marion
SF: Q
SG: JJ
PG: Nash 

will probably need a shake up.

Im thinking this line-up

C: Hunter
PF: Amare
SF: Marion
SG: JJ
PG: Nash

Let that be the main line-up, give Hunter around 30-34 minutes playing C/PF alternating with Amare and Marion. We cannot simply rely on just 1 bench player.

Make Jackson, Q alternate to give Marion, Nash, JJ rest in between. Q can start every now and then depending on the match ups. But if they want Hunter to improve, he needs minutes and responsibilities.


Also trade Barbosa, the guy could really thrive on another system, but the suns need a smart play maker, instead of an atheletic pg with scoring mentality. I always thought the suns should of made a deal for Aroyo. 

With the last pick, I dont think the suns can get that Big guy or that talented play maker.... unless they get lucky again.


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## Carbo04 (Apr 15, 2005)

Kekai23 said:


> Why Swift though? He sucks at rebounding.


True, but he's a good shotblocker. He's fast, and can jump out of the gym. So PHX's run and gun style would fit him perfectly. Plus PHX could use a good shotblocker, and a guy that can get 5-10 rebs a game. Marion gets like 11 boards, Amare gets like 9, add Swift's about 6-7, and what an improved Hunter could do. PHX will be a fine rebounding team.


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## 1 Penny (Jul 11, 2003)

If the suns can get a swift type player, he can come off the bench or start depending on the match ups.

But he may be a bit out of the price range, since some teams will offer more... Hopefully the suns system/style is attractive enough for similar type players... Because I think Swift will actually be effective in the suns system.


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## KokoTheMonkey (Aug 4, 2003)

Swift isa much better version of Steven Hunter, so I think he'd work out very well with the Suns.


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

KokoTheMonkey said:


> Swift isa much better version of Steven Hunter, so I think he'd work out very well with the Suns.


Yeah, but I highly doubt we're able to get him with the Hawks ability to over pay more than us. I been hearing they wanna move down to 5 and get the 13th pick in a trade with Bobcats and also sign Swift. They have a ton of cap space. A lot more than we do. And after resigning JJ if we do it, extending Amare and MLE I doubt we can get him. Unless we don't resign JJ. But that makes us look like morons for getting Q last summer. I'd take JJ over Q anyday of the week.


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## blzrfan08 (Apr 10, 2005)

What about a vetran shot blocker and the #3 pick for JJ. You could get your Center position plus you could get a young talented PG that could make an immediate impact or another PF to help when facing bigger teams.


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

blzrfan08 said:


> What about a vetran shot blocker and the #3 pick for JJ. You could get your Center position plus you could get a young talented PG that could make an immediate impact or another PF to help when facing bigger teams.


That'd be very interesting deal to me. Of course you mean Ratliff, altho his contract is bad. I don't know, if we'd draft a PG though. That'd be intriguing as well, since Nash is 31 or so. But I don't know, would the Blazers do this though?


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## ShuHanGuanYu (Feb 3, 2005)

Hehe, did you guys watch the Memphis series closely? Swift is tremendously horrible on defense. He, like Amare, can block shots in help defense...but if you are looking for someone to come in and protect the paint, Stromile Swift is not the guy to do it. The guy gets lost so easily. He'll have a good game, and then just look completely oblivious the next. Maybe it's because he had no consistent playing time, but what I've seen tells me he is definitely not the answer.


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## 1 Penny (Jul 11, 2003)

The ratliff + 3rd pick trade would be much more attractive if Ratliff wasnt getting overpaid severely. If he was just slightly overpaid... I can see it. But he is very much overpaid.


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## sportsboy (Jun 29, 2004)

Suns Fans...CONGRATS on a GREAT SEASON.

I think you are very close to a NBA Title if you make a few key moves.

IMO you need a center who can score and rebound.

You have too many wing players.

Solution: Trade Marion for BIG Z, resign JJ, hope Nash plays this well next year.

GO CAVS !!!!!


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

First of all, congrats...I am jealous.

Anyways, there is no need to change anything in the starting lineup. Nobody in the league has proven a match except the Spurs and Duncan, Horry and Bowen will be older next year and your team more experienced. The only thing you need to do is bolster your reserves and get some mercs for specific matchups. 

1. Sit down with JJ and tell him he is going to be on the Suns next year but to go out and get the best offer possible and you will match it. Don't sabotage him by saying you will match every offer as that will instill illwill and he might be forced to sign the tender and enter UFA.

2. Get Nash a backup. This can be in the form of a sharpshooter that allows JJ to continue to slide over but you must get Steve Nash more rest. Every game you lost in the playoffs was a result in Nash's legs being gone and his shot being effected.

3. Get an active, rebounder for the bench. Someone who can play with Hunter and with/for Amare. You need more options on the bench.

The Suns are need of a tweak not a Cuban like overhaul. If Marion is a matchup problem for 28 teams in the league, I think he is a keeper.

Did I mention I am jealous.


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

MemphisX said:


> First of all, congrats...I am jealous.
> 
> Anyways, there is no need to change anything in the starting lineup. Nobody in the league has proven a match except the Spurs and Duncan, Horry and Bowen will be older next year and your team more experienced. The only thing you need to do is bolster your reserves and get some mercs for specific matchups.
> 
> ...


Great post. Nice to know someone feels we're in good shape. And don't you worry about Memphis. You guys will try and make some moves. Jerry West hasn't fully made his mark yet. It's just a shame you guys didn't get the breaks the Lakers teams did. Still have some time though. I remember saying to my friend, when you guys had that great yr and won 50 games. If you had just won the lotto and gotten Lebron you may have won 60 games. So many things woulda been different. Lebron would be bigger than Elvis.


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## hirschmanz (Jun 3, 2005)

MemphisX said:


> First of all, congrats...I am jealous.
> 
> Anyways, there is no need to change anything in the starting lineup. Nobody in the league has proven a match except the Spurs and Duncan, Horry and Bowen will be older next year and your team more experienced. The only thing you need to do is bolster your reserves and get some mercs for specific matchups.



Steve Nash will be a year older too, I think he is past the point where he gets more experienced. 

What should the suns do if they can't re-sign JJ?


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## bdw0617 (Apr 4, 2003)

1. Trade Shawn Marion to Memphis for Stro Swift and James Posey (sign and trade)

2. Trade Q Rich and Barbosa to Washington for Kwame Brown and Juan Dixon (sign and trade)

3. Sign Joe even if it is the max, which it won't be.

4. Use the draft to take either Hakim Warrick or 
w3ayne semien, both fit the style of play that phoenix plays.

Doing this accomplishes some things... Q rich is a good player, all he is asked to really do is spot up and shot threes, and play defense, which he doesn't do... why not replace him for someone who sits back and shots threes, and CAN play defense in James Posey? He came in the league with a defensive rep. Just as athletic as Q Rich.

Shawn marion is a hybird forward. He is talented, but doesn't play well against top defenses, takes horrible shots, and doesn't really provide a low post presense this team needs, not necessarly dominate, but one that has to be accounted for. Out of Kwame and Stro, you will get that... hell, one of them might turn into a better player, but both are servicable and can provide you with what shawn marion did, execpt for the range.

Juan dixon isn't going to stay with washington... he isn't even the back up point guard... however, when I watch them play, he is the most technically sound of the guards that they have on their team... Gilbert is the best, but I despise larry hugues, and i feel they would be a hell of a lot better team if Juan was playing for them more. Anyway, he can play the backup point, or two if need be, and phoneix can get rid of that backup point guard who calls himself a basketball player.

5) if at all possible, sign brevin knight to a contract for insurance.

That team would be alot more athletic, flexable, defensive minded and actually,more offensivly potent than the team they have now, plus they would have depth.


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

We do not need to trade Marion over ONE bad series. He's part of what got us to where we were.


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## Carbo04 (Apr 15, 2005)

bdw0617 said:


> 1. Trade Shawn Marion to Memphis for Stro Swift and James Posey (sign and trade)
> 
> 2. Trade Q Rich and Barbosa to Washington for Kwame Brown and Juan Dixon (sign and trade)
> 
> ...


Jeez. I'm glad you don't have any real power for the Suns with all that trash.


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## BBB (Jan 19, 2005)

There's really no need for any drastic changes to this ballclub. The main priority for this team should be to match JJ. Keep the starting lineup as it is IMO. 

As mentioned already, get a solid PG backup too. Nash isn't getting any younger and it's important to allow him to rest more during the season for the playoffs.


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## Ownerofpueblo (Aug 17, 2003)

How do you guys feel about Marko Jaric? They mentioned that the Suns were rumored to have interest in him on hoopshype yesterday. I think he would be an good fit, and back up three positions adequately. 

Also, who are we considering with the pick? The only names I've heard are Monta Ellis and Hakim Warrick, if they drop that far, and otherwise Ike Diogu and Something Gigli.


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## Kekai (Jan 12, 2005)

Ownerofpueblo said:


> How do you guys feel about Marko Jaric? They mentioned that the Suns were rumored to have interest in him on hoopshype yesterday. I think he would be an good fit, and back up three positions adequately.
> 
> Also, who are we considering with the pick? The only names I've heard are Monta Ellis and Hakim Warrick, if they drop that far, and otherwise Ike Diogu and Something Gigli.


Jaric...no not him. His D sucks. I would like the high schoolers either Ellis or Blatche. Hakim would be good too.


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

Check this out.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/writers/ian_thomsen/06/08/inside.nba/




> *The Phoenix Suns are quietly putting out word that they will match any offer to restricted free agent Joe Johnson -- even a max contract worth more than $10 million. The investment would pay off over the longterm, because Johnson could be prepared to take over at point guard as Steve Nash gets older*.



Well, it appears like we're keeping Joe Johnson at any cost. Which means, we're commited to keep this young core and add to it. Not caring about a luxary tax. At least we'll have players who can play not one of those teams who have a high salary and a lot of crap. This also means, we won't be trading Q or Marion if we don't care about money or so it seems.

I hope they do what they say and get some kind of defensive force off the bench or something, we need it.


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## 1 Penny (Jul 11, 2003)

i read a similar article last week. Im sure if they really needed to unload a contract it will be Q. He will be much needed in teams such as Denver or Atlanta or even Cleveland... 

Letting JJ go will be regretful... the very least a sign and trade for early draft picks + key players.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

1 Penny said:


> i read a similar article last week. Im sure if they really needed to unload a contract it will be Q. He will be much needed in teams such as Denver or Atlanta or even Cleveland...
> 
> Letting JJ go will be regretful... the very least a sign and trade for early draft picks + key players.


If you could somehow manage to move Q and JJackson for marcus Camby,and camby could somehow manage to stay healthy,you guys would be outright scary..

nash
JJ
Camby
Amare
marion

I think its time for Denver to decide between k
Kmart,Nene and Camby..One of them has to go..They screwed up in overpaying martin


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

Kekai23 said:


> Jaric...no not him. His D sucks. I would like the high schoolers either Ellis or Blatche. Hakim would be good too.


We need guys who can come in and contribute right away. Those 2 HSers would then get eliminated. I would like Hakim or Diogu in this draft but anyone who can come off the bench and be able to do something. Not a project. We're too geared into right now to be drafting those guys.


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## terry2damp (Apr 24, 2005)

ive posted this b4 but Q to denver for nene would help u ALOT nene is 22 yrs old 6'11'' 260lbs to put tht in perspective he is only 5 lbs lighter then dampier and the same height so he has legit C size. Nene put up 9 and 5 in 23mpg last year which is pretty solid he has good athletcism and wingspan and sum solid post moves


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## Kekai (Jan 12, 2005)

terry2damp said:


> ive posted this b4 but Q to denver for nene would help u ALOT nene is 22 yrs old 6'11'' 260lbs to put tht in perspective he is only 5 lbs lighter then dampier and the same height so he has legit C size. Nene put up 9 and 5 in 23mpg last year which is pretty solid he has good athletcism and wingspan and sum solid post moves


Yah would help. Not going to happen though.


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## Kekai (Jan 12, 2005)

dissonance19 said:


> Check this out.
> 
> http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/writers/ian_thomsen/06/08/inside.nba/
> 
> ...


We can't give both JJ and Amare the max can we?


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## bdw0617 (Apr 4, 2003)

sometimes you have to admit that what you have isn't good enough....

sure, the suns are a very, very GOOD team like they are now, hell they are a great team in my eyes, but they are still aways away from being a NBA Cahmpionship team.

1. You will never win a championship as long as you can't defend the post. Say what you want about the old showtime lakers, but they still had Mycheal Thompson, Michaell Cooper and Kareem to defend the post. The suns for all intents and purposes have no one.

The suns are effective now because the game has for the most part, become premiter oriented... even the big men are these days.. but you will never be able to get past thoose teams who make their living in the paint.

The suns can play the spurs 10 more series, and wouldn't win one with their current makeup.

In other words, they have a nice collection of players, but the difference in the Pistons, Lakers when they had shaq and Spurs, is that they have a team.

I actually am from little rock, and I played on the same AAU basketball team with JJ. We also go to the same athletic club down here (in the offseason at least) hell I ran into him at (his eye looks pretty bad in person). 
The same thing I am telling you is what he told me. "man, we are too small" (joe BTW is one of the coolest cats you will ever met, so if you ever see him in person and want to talk to him, don't hesitate)

Anyway back to my point... I like steve nash, even though I think he loafs on defense at times, but hay, no one's perfect. Qunentin Richardson, at least for the way this team plays, is totally expendable. If joe would have been okay and that was Q that got hurt instead, I don't think they would have missed a beat. when he is posting up, he is a positive addition to the team, but when he is shooting threes and not playing defense, which is more often the the former, you can "plug and play" alot of players in th league for that... i am not saying he is a BAD player, just expendable.

Shawn Marion actually is not a bad player, and I like him.. okay I don't like the fact that i have never seen him hit a tip-in shot in my life, and I hate that redicous form he has on his shot, but the kid's a player.

However, he is better suited for Small forward, not power forward.

let me rephrase that, until Amare Stoudmire learns that being an All star means holding the other teams all star as well (tim duncan), and not making an undersized marion do it for you, the suns will never be the best team in the west.

So either a) stoudmire learns how to guard people without getting into foul touble.... effectivly or b) they get someone out there who can.

years ago, when the heat used to play the knicks all the time, who do you think guarded Patric Ewing, at least in the 4th quarter.... well, that's not a good analigy because they had PJ brown, who is one of the better defenders int he league.

When Hakeem used to play Robinson, who did Hakeem used to do the dream shake on? It wasn't the power forward or some stiff they would put in to collect fouls, it was robinson, beause as the best player on your team, you have to guard their best player.

That's unfair to marion to ask him to guard the greatest power foward of all time, and you aren't even the best big man on your team!

Speaking of marion and posting up, it does also bother me that your power foward doesn't even really present the option of being able to post up. At least Dirk and KG and Jermaine O'neal and Rasheed post a legitmate threat of posting up at times. For marion, it's either a 3 or a slash. I can get that from my shooting guard. I mean, he is a good player, a very good one, i love his entergy, but it's not a power forward game he has.

Also, this team is father away than you realized from being a legit NBA title team.

The suns this year would not beat the pistons, spurs... I am giong on the lim and to say the heat (if shaq is healthy) and MAYBE even the rockets in 7... and I am a huge suns fan, but I am being realistic.

This team has troulbe with teams that lock you up on defense and that don't make bonehead offensive mistakes on offense...

And that's this year.

Dallas was a couple of smarter plays away from taking that series... dallas to me just isn't a very intelligent team.

San Antonion will probably be better next year. Dallas will be better. Houston Will be better and who knows about Sacramento and Denver.

Why Kwame Brown/Stromile Swift? Because you don't necessarly need points from the power foward when you have amare, you need a big at hletic body (a la nazr mohommad), and considering you can give Kwame and Stro the benefit of the doubt that maybe their situtations just aren't right for them, why not?


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

Kekai23 said:


> We can't give both JJ and Amare the max can we?


We can if the new ownerships will want to pay a luxary tax or even just allow the payroll to go up. I mean its at what 45-49 next yr? With Amare's extension and JJ's contract it'd be what 60-65 mill? Not sure about how much Amare is getting though. But I do think we're doing it though to scare teams off though. If worse came to worse we may actually do it as I said because of the ownership not caring. At least we'd have our starting 5 paid a lot and not have a bunch of bad players signed like Knicks. If anything, we'd trade Q yrs down the line though or when Marion got older.


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## Ownerofpueblo (Aug 17, 2003)

Do you think we could convince SAR to take the midlevel? He's could help us, and convincing never-been-in-the-playoffs guy to hitch onto our team, like Mcdyess did, we could put us over the top. I could see him switching in, dropping Q down to the bench, and covering Duncan for a bit next year...


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