# 11/20: Toronto (5-5) @ Dallas (7-2)



## southeasy (Jun 11, 2003)

*these games are always good, Toronto @ the D. good matchup for both teams, always an exciting, competitive game... like i said on the dallas board, you got my favourite player in Dallas' Josh Howard vs. my team in T.O.

the outcome of this game could very well depend on how well Moon controls J.Hustle.. if he can at all*.








































*TJ Ford - Anthony Parker - Jamario Moon - Chris Bosh - Maceo Baston*

@





































*Devin Harris - Maurice Ager - Josh Howard - Dirk Nowitzki - Desagana Diop*

GET THAT GAME TALK


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## billfindlay10 (Jan 24, 2003)

A win here would be huge!
I say we start Bargs in this game....Diop can't handle Bosh or Bargs on the perimeter, nor is he a big threat on the offensive end.


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## TRON (Feb 29, 2004)

props on the gamethread Southeasy, you are now officially responsible for them now since you made the best one this year :biggrin:



> Originally posted by *billfindaly10 !*
> 
> I say we start Bargs in this game....Diop can't handle Bosh or Bargs on the perimeter,


if Bargs is hitting shots he becomes a problem for Dallas, if he doesn't he becomes our problem as he is essentially useless defensively.


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## billfindlay10 (Jan 24, 2003)

TRON said:


> props on the gamethread Southeasy, you are now officially responsible for them now since you made the best one this year :biggrin:
> 
> 
> 
> if Bargs is hitting shots he becomes a problem for Dallas, if he doesn't he becomes our problem as he is essentially useless defensively.


Other then his quick fouls, I feel Bargs has played solid post "D". Numerous times he has held his ground and stayed straight up, forcing bad shot from the opposing player. 

If he is going to be a big part of this teams success then we need to play him.....its not like we are lights out without him.


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## southeasy (Jun 11, 2003)

honestly, mago isnt bad with his post-defense man-to-man, very strong legs, the trouble is when shots go up he doesnt box out enough, get aggressive to grab the rebounds or he starts bounding up court thinking 'oh bosh or delfino or moon will get that' meanwhile offensive opposition players are getting the boards.. 

i think Maceo has a good chance to defend Dirk well if put up to the task, he is quick enough at PF, and long enough to get a hand up in the germans face.. adept @ blocking & taking charges too.. thats all we need baston to bring to this game if he gets another S.


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## dirtybird (Mar 16, 2007)

billfindlay10 said:


> Other then his quick fouls, I feel Bargs has played solid post "D". Numerous times he has held his ground and stayed straight up, forcing bad shot from the opposing player.
> 
> If he is going to be a big part of this teams success then we need to play him.....its not like we are lights out without him.


The last few games, Bargnani's defense and rebounding has been attrocious. He did play solid D the first few games of the season, but ever since he was demoted to the bench, he's been bad on D.

My pick for the X-factor on the Mavs is Dampier. He always seems to kill the Raptors because they aren't good at defending strong post/rebounding players.


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## southeasy (Jun 11, 2003)

dirtybird said:


> The last few games, Bargnani's defense and rebounding has been attrocious. He did play solid D the first few games of the season, but ever since he was demoted to the bench, he's been bad on D.
> 
> My pick for the X-factor on the Mavs is Dampier. He always seems to kill the Raptors because they aren't good at defending strong post/rebounding players.


good thing he is even slower now having just returned from injury the other day.. maybe bosh can do a drive-by again & throw it down on cranium.


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## jamesblair23 (May 24, 2006)

billfindlay10 said:


> Other then his quick fouls, I feel Bargs has played solid post "D". Numerous times he has held his ground and stayed straight up, forcing bad shot from the opposing player.
> 
> If he is going to be a big part of this teams success then we need to play him.....its not like we are lights out without him.


I agree. Il Mago has played solid defense, and woouldn't be matched up against an offensive force in Diop. Bargnani needs to get his confidence back. He is still an integral part for the Raptors and I think people are starting to give up on him too quickly.

This is a homecoming game for CB4 and TJ as they both return to their home states. You never know about tonight. Maybe another 30 point victory will happen on the road again tonight. Then again, maybe not.


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## ballocks (May 15, 2003)

this is one of those games where i'm torn about how i want us to play. in one sense, sure, i want us to play better than we have recently. but if we do, that'll serve as yet another indication (imo) of how this team appears to be far more comfortable playing as underdogs than favourites. championship teams are rarely underdogs- so if we want to become a championship team, we need to at some point embrace our role as favourites. for some people, it's much easier to play well when you're expected to lose than it is when you're expected to win. but those people are rarely champions. i don't remember michael jordan, for example, with his knees buckled, cringing under the weight of expectation. don't remember magic johnson, larry bird, isiah thomas, joe montana, emmitt smith, tom brady, wayne gretzky or mario lemieux behaving that way either.

that said, championship teams also beat championship teams (like dallas) so no matter what happens tonight, you can be sure that i'll be disappointed. 

peace


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## southeasy (Jun 11, 2003)

if we win tonight, in no way can i take it as disappointment, i'll just once again hope we can get on a roll.. i think we have as good chance as any to beat the mavericks, they have got alot tougher over the years, they are almost a better defensive team then offensive this year.

as for the game threads, i made a couple earlier in the season, games (1-3) i think, when it is a really slow day or we are facing a team i like or one of my favourite players(like tonight) i'll definitly be making a game thread, i just lack the consistancy in the gamethread' game, consistancy kind of like toronto has been lacking this season ahah... in a joint effort from all T.O. posters, this board is one of the only that i know of that usually has a gamethread for every game.


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## RC06 (Jan 30, 2007)

According to Chuck, we haven't won a game in Dallas since '99 so I'm not going to be disappointed if we chalk up another loss. I just hope we can at least keep it close.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

Bosh should be wired for this game seen as though he has yet to record a victory in Dallas where all his friends and family can watch him. That said he has been awful the past few games shooting something disgusting like 14 of 39, prove me wrong Chris show them what your made of. 

Hopefully TJ's return to Texas will not bring out his need to go it alone and score wildly and jack crazy shots where the pass should be the option. TJ needs to get the players in there groove and stretch the floor. 

Bargs is an interesting case because for one I really am not sure how I feel about the kid. He has been absolutely shocking these past few games and provided the team with nada, all this is weird seen as though he started the season on a tear. Not sure what he will do in this game but I think he will bounce back. 

Good luck boys your going to need it :biggrin:


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## southeasy (Jun 11, 2003)

game note:

-Garbajosa had an MRI on the weekend.. will undergo more tests, not dressed tonight.
-Darrick Murray activated (bad sign!!!!!)


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

I'm watching the Dallas TV broadcast, and it said "Dallas basketball is sponsored by Ford Texas. *Ford is the best in Texas*."

Haha, I'm having a good feeling about TJ in this game.


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## AllEyezonTX (Nov 16, 2006)

A BIG welcome home to Bosh/Ford - Hoping for a good one


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## southeasy (Jun 11, 2003)

BTW Bargnani will start tonight over Maceo.

i remember someone called it, not sure who but yeah, that is in the books.


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## AllEyezonTX (Nov 16, 2006)

*"Fort Bend Willowridge High School"* muzik to my ears


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## southeasy (Jun 11, 2003)

big dunk by anthony parker, and1.

6-2 Toronto early.

Moon & Bosh nice start.


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## southeasy (Jun 11, 2003)

offensive rebound by Bargnani, great play to reset.

TJ Ford finds Bargs wide open for THREE

10-2 Toronto.

dallas has already burnt 2 timeouts.


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## AllEyezonTX (Nov 16, 2006)

Avery about to sit all the starters, he so upset. Barn' wideopen=$


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## southeasy (Jun 11, 2003)

nice give & go, Moon & Bargnani

Bargs for another three.

Terry is catching fire.

TJ Fouled, going to the line.


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## AllEyezonTX (Nov 16, 2006)

Ford Tough - 2fts good


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## southeasy (Jun 11, 2003)

J. Hustle Howard BLOCKS Bargs 3rd 3 attempt


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## southeasy (Jun 11, 2003)

TJ another steal & and1, schooling devin harris, going to the line for a chance at 3.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

J Terry is such a monster.

Avery is frothing at the mouth. Bargs seems to have found his stroke I knew he would - my guess is he will always play great against the Mavs due to the fact he is syked going against Dirk. Ford was like lightning then!


19-12 Raps


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## AllEyezonTX (Nov 16, 2006)

Lunch $, Dirk - And1 TJ


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## southeasy (Jun 11, 2003)

Bosh, drives, basket is good, and1.

23-14 TORONTO


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## AllEyezonTX (Nov 16, 2006)

We all know Dirk Defense is where he suffers, Bosh in the paint will be a factor


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## southeasy (Jun 11, 2003)

very great 1-2-3 tap defensive rebound by Bargnani!!!! im liking his rebound game to start tonight!


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

Bosh is looking aggressive so far, hope he keeps it up.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

Damn Dampier and his huge self. 

TJ is all over the floor today but his shot hasn't been dropping - should start looking to dish.

TO for TOR 

23-16

And DAMN! these Raps are so much better away from the ACC what is up with that!!


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## southeasy (Jun 11, 2003)

OMFG nice fade three by Bargnani.

third triple of the 1st Q.

J.Terry is on fire.


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## AllEyezonTX (Nov 16, 2006)

"Barn Baby Barn!" He throwing Hot Rocks @ the rim!


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

Bargs is tearing it up. Way to prove the doubters wrong. Myself included, go you!

A.Parker is having a horrible patch.


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## southeasy (Jun 11, 2003)

i called it! Bosh is killing Damp.. another basket for bosh, and1.. Who called this guy soft?! thats what i thought, thats what we call FIRE


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

Another &1


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

Moon really fills up the hole we have at the SF position. It it wasn't for him, we would be getting killed by Howard and Stackhouse.


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## southeasy (Jun 11, 2003)

31-19 after 1.

best 1st ive seen from us all year, no lie.

Bargs is rebounding & on fire from 3, Bosh is attacking the rim & Moon just blocked Stackhouse buzzer beater attempt.


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## southeasy (Jun 11, 2003)

Calderon jumper, Good from 17.

33-19


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## southeasy (Jun 11, 2003)

Andrea Bargnani just hit his 4th Triple!!!!!!


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## southeasy (Jun 11, 2003)

Kapono quick J.

chuck please get a new phrase for kapono.


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## southeasy (Jun 11, 2003)

2nd dunk in a row by Bosh, breaks through a double team for a big slam on Dirks head.

i don't mean to rush things but... he's baaaaaack


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

The guy that's calling Bosh soft should really take a look at this game.


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## AllEyezonTX (Nov 16, 2006)

the display of basketball from the Raps right now is amazing...I can only imagine the words that are coming out of Avery mouth right now


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## chocolove (Apr 4, 2006)

Huge dunk by Bosh, up by 20


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## AllEyezonTX (Nov 16, 2006)

southeasy said:


> Kapono quick J.
> 
> chuck please get a new phrase for kapono.


I still like the phrase they used in Miami "Kapow"


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## southeasy (Jun 11, 2003)

Kaaaaapppppooonooooo Nooo Noooo Big Three


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## southeasy (Jun 11, 2003)

47-25 T.o.


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## AllEyezonTX (Nov 16, 2006)

:lol: @ Sam Mitchell reaction to that call


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## southeasy (Jun 11, 2003)

Raptors doing amazing things on the road this season... is it the fact the fans in Toronto are the most loud & ruckus in the league? ahaha, team is playing amazing & looks relax on the road.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

when the shots are falling for the Raps, the team really looks unbeatable. When they stop falling, we look like a lottery team.


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## southeasy (Jun 11, 2003)

AllEyezonTX said:


> I still like the phrase they used in Miami "Kapow"


anything is better then "Kapono from the curb" huh what curb chuck? makes jason sound like hes homeless or something :biggrin:


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

time to get kapono out and put moon back in there. We are losing on rebounds again.


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## southeasy (Jun 11, 2003)

say what you want about the man but...

Sam Mitchell is still the best dressed coach in the NBA, check that suit haha


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

D.Harris on a one man mission right now. 

And I fully agree with you Seifer when the shots are going down the Raps look championship calibre but when there off were are horrid.

49-33

TO for Tor


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

ARRRRRRRGH the dreaded collapse is upon us I can feel it. 

Shooting has plummeted and were settling for 3's too much. 

49-37


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

Wooo what do I know Bargs of all people steadying the ship with a 17ft fadaway. 

Dirk replies in a 'whatever you can do I can do better' sorta way ... grow up Dirk :biggrin:

52-39


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## southeasy (Jun 11, 2003)

55-41 Toronto @ the half.

Bargnani: 16pts
Bosh: 12pts
Ford: 10pts
Moon: 8 rebounds in 1st half.. HOW U LOVE THAT!?


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

Ford having another great game so far. 

Moon with a key rebound. 

Harris couldn't shoot a cow at three paces right now.

55-41 

HALFTIME


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

This is me signing out of the thread for the night. 

Keep up the good work Southeasy :biggrin:

GO RAPS GO!


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## billfindlay10 (Jan 24, 2003)

I called it......Bargs should get the start!


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## southeasy (Jun 11, 2003)

billfindlay10 said:


> I called it......Bargs should get the start!


it's true, as i said earlier in the thread, someone had called it when i broke the news, the rep goes to our own billfindlay!

& PP (porn_player) thanks for the help in calling the 1st half haha.


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## southeasy (Jun 11, 2003)

Triano giving props to Jamario for his work on my boy Josh Howard so far, i knew if Jamario could 'luol deng' Howard (if you will) we would be in a good place.


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## billfindlay10 (Jan 24, 2003)

Parker is having a rough game!


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## billfindlay10 (Jan 24, 2003)

Sweet dish from Bargs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## billfindlay10 (Jan 24, 2003)

Dallas is hanging around this quarter....we need to ride this storm out and right the ship.


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## southeasy (Jun 11, 2003)

good timeout by sam mitchell right there.

61-54 toronto i believe.


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## southeasy (Jun 11, 2003)

god damn, 3 straight TO's by toronto...

but then 2 straight baskets.

65-59 T.O.


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## southeasy (Jun 11, 2003)

big three.

anthony parker.

68-61 T.O.


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## southeasy (Jun 11, 2003)

wtf, 4 straight 3's for Dirk, 18pts in 3rd.

79-72 Dallas... strong 4th PLZ


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## crimedog (Jun 3, 2003)

F*CKING inexcusable. Bosh should have been in Dirk's shorts for those last two shots. I think he should be benched for the rest of the game. Play some D and stop firing up soft jumpers.


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## southeasy (Jun 11, 2003)

Jamario for 3.

82-75 Dallas.

the score's feed keeps messing up... pissing me off.


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## southeasy (Jun 11, 2003)

84-77

bosh going to the line for 2.

& i'm going outside for a smoke break.. the game feed is going crazy & i can't take the pressure right now.


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## southeasy (Jun 11, 2003)

84-80 Dallas.. toronto playing better after the collapse.

NOW for that smoke.


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

Why aren't we doubling Dirk?!?! WHERE'S THE ****ING DOUBLE?!?!?!

**** the Score. **** 'em up the ***. ****.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

I can't believe we're going to lose like this twice in a row


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

seifer0406 said:


> I can't believe we're going to lose like this twice in a row


The last two games have featured the ugliest scoring droughts this Raptors team has ever had.


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## NeoSamurai (Jan 16, 2003)

Devin Harris really helped spark the comeback by attacking at every moment on offense and in transition. Once Harris got the Raps on their heels, it seemed like the whole Dallas squad hit their stride. Frustrating loss, but you cant win a game on one quarter alone.

Good thing we got a game tomorrow in order to erase the memory of this loss, although TJs health is a concern...


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## kg_mvp03-04 (Jul 24, 2003)

Damn it is about time that we fire that retard Sam Mitchell, i swear he is still the worst coach in the league. He caught lightning in a bottle last year with that team. His rotations are horrendous, has no idea who he is playing, just throws in random guys. Also he never seems to have a play setup after a timeout, we always turn the ball over or take a dumb shot after a timeout. Bargnani was guarding dirk so well but mitchell takes him out for a long time till Leo mentions it, he let Andrea cool down. Kapono was playing alrite but he gets taken out and not played again. We just need a coach that can draw up plays and keep a set rotation to create chemistry.


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## southeasy (Jun 11, 2003)

what happened with TJ??

as you can see the 3rd quarter made me never exist for the 4th. i didn't even see it... i see we lost by 6?


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## NeoSamurai (Jan 16, 2003)

southeasy said:


> what happened with TJ??
> 
> as you can see the 3rd quarter made me never exist for the 4th. i didn't even see it... i see we lost by 6?


had a stinger after i think falling to the ground and kapono fell on top of him...was pulled and didnt play in the 4th


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## southeasy (Jun 11, 2003)

damn.


.
.


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## southeasy (Jun 11, 2003)

Calderon starting?

:biggrin:


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## Jabba1 (May 23, 2006)

Nice game guys! I seriously thought we were going to lose this when the Raps were up by 24. Credit the Mavs for refusing to go down so easy. As for Dirk catching fire in the second half, you can't let him take too many lightly contested three's, he'll start hitting them. Once he finds his stroke it's usally a long night for the other team. :worthy:

I honestly think this year will be Devon Harris' comming out party. He's even developed a three point shot, you should've seen what he did to the Spurs the other night.:yay: 

Peace out!


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

Budweiser_Boy said:


> The last two games have featured the ugliest scoring droughts this Raptors team has ever had.


You better get use to this if the Raps are planning to play this style of basketball this season. As they say, you don't live by the shot, you die by the shot. We can't have people camping on the perimeter taking turns chucking shots. It looks good when they are falling, but it's not something we can rely on.

Thoughts on the game:

- Bosh and the point guards need to do a better job at establishing a post presence. Bosh needs to be more vocal about getting people to go inside and taking the ball inside himself (He was doing a good job of it the first half), and the point guards need to make sure that the team doesn't go into a jump shooting mode and make an effort of getting the ball to the post.

- The team should stay away from playing small ball. Our team is not athletic enough and when we go small, our defense and rebounding just gets demolished. When that happens, the pressure is on the shooters to score in bunches, and usually they can't perform under such pressure. 2 out of the trio of Bosh/Moon/Humphries should be on the floor at all times. You cannot have Humphries out there by himself and paired with Bargnani and Kapono or some other weak rebounders out there, you need at least 2.

- Eventhough Bargnani scored 20 points today, I still think he had a weak game overall. Most of the points he scored were off 3s, and he rarely, if not never drove the ball to the basket. Had he missed the first few baskets, this could've been a 1/11 stinker that he had earlier. He needs to mix it up and not just camp outside the arc like Kapono.

- Lastly, credit Moon on the overall defensive job he did tonight. I thought his length really bothered Howard and Stackhouse tonight and he had 12 rebounds to go along with it. I think he should play at least 30+ min every night from now on. A great find for BC, I cannot believe nobody signed him until now.


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## crimedog (Jun 3, 2003)

kg_mvp03-04 said:


> Damn it is about time that we fire that retard Sam Mitchell, i swear he is still the worst coach in the league. He caught lightning in a bottle last year with that team. His rotations are horrendous, has no idea who he is playing, just throws in random guys. Also he never seems to have a play setup after a timeout, we always turn the ball over or take a dumb shot after a timeout. Bargnani was guarding dirk so well but mitchell takes him out for a long time till Leo mentions it, he let Andrea cool down. Kapono was playing alrite but he gets taken out and not played again. We just need a coach that can draw up plays and keep a set rotation to create chemistry.


I actually totally agree. We won't, but I have no confidence in his rotations (not that he has an actual rotation) or his x's and o's. He's a great motivator, which helped the team gel last year, but I have my doubts about his inability to give this team an identity this year.


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## dirtybird (Mar 16, 2007)

1) This may or may not be of interest to some of you. But, I went back over the last 4 games that the Raptors have played (and I'm sure that it would be similar for the whole season too), and found that whenever the opponents got an offensive rebound, they either scored or got fouled in around 60% of those possessions. That seems to me to be a huge advantage for the opposition. And the thing that is frustrating is that these are things that should be simple to do. The only guys on this team that properly box out their man have been Moon, Delfino, and Rasho/Hump (and they don't play much). In comparison, without checking the numbers, the Raptors were much less efficient at converting their offensive boards in buckets or fouls.

2) Just from observing the game, I would also argue that the opposition is very efficient at converting turnovers into either scores or fouls. That I would say is indicative of not only how bad the Raptors transition D is, but also where the ball is being turnover and where the Raptor players are on the court when that happens (i.e. near the opponent's baseline). The Raptors turnover seem to happen in the middle of the court on passes back or the ball behind poke loose going towards the Raptors end. So, the ball momentum is towards the Raptors basket, so teams don't have to go back to retrieve the ball, not allowing the Raptors players to get back on D.

3) I would be curious as the percentage of opponents scores that are layups in comparison to the rest of the league. It just seems that they tend to give up so many easy layups.


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## billfindlay10 (Jan 24, 2003)

Tough loss.....Bargs did mix it up a little on offense, he went in the post on a switch and got called on a cheap offensive foul. Also he did put it on the floor and hit Bosh with a great no look for the soft one handed dunk.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

Porn_Player said:


> ARRRRRRRGH the dreaded collapse is upon us I can feel it.
> 
> Shooting has plummeted and were settling for 3's too much.
> 
> 49-37


Haha I called it just a little early... 

I knew we would lose even though we were playing so well and up so big, it has just become something this Raptor team does. 

5-6 losing record.. yey... not.


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## TRON (Feb 29, 2004)

^ cool, I wasn't the only one thinking that when we were up 24, we were gonna lose someway, somehow. 

Most coaches talk about closing out quarters strong to create momentum going into the next quarter. Toronto carlessly pissed away a late second quarter lead of 24, which Devin harris cut by 10 going into the half.

With his team playing complacent with a comfortable lead, Sam does nothing to calm down his team and Dallas gets the lead down to 14.

Now in the late 3rd quarter with the 24 lead now down to 3, 1:39 left to go. Sam inexplicably watches as Dirk goes on a 12-2 run to turn a 3 point lead into a 7 point deficit!!!!

UNBELIEVABLE!! What a sorry excuse for a coach, I wonder what senior Colangelo thought about this game.

unprepared, confused, chaotic, clueless


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## streetballa (Dec 5, 2006)

wow the raptors suck, losing after they were up by 24. Even if it was dallas, it was a big enough lead to grind out the win.


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## dirtybird (Mar 16, 2007)

streetballa said:


> wow the raptors suck, losing after they were up by 24. Even if it was dallas, it was a big enough lead to grind out the win.


The thing was that they lost the lead in the span of the span of 10mins. During that whole collapse they only called 2 timeouts (one leading to a shot clock violation and the other a missed jumper).


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## southeasy (Jun 11, 2003)

until the raptors find out a way to close out games.. no lead is safe while watching t.o. ball... up by 30 in the 3rd? i shouldnt feel uneasy but i do!

its okay tho, i have faith.


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## 4BiddenKnight (Jun 23, 2005)

TRON said:


> ^ cool, I wasn't the only one thinking that when we were up 24, we were gonna lose someway, somehow.
> 
> Most coaches talk about closing out quarters strong to create momentum going into the next quarter. Toronto carlessly pissed away a late second quarter lead of 24, which Devin harris cut by 10 going into the half.
> 
> ...


Even then, during the 3rd quarter that I watched, while Disco Dirk & the Mavs were making that nice run, I thought why the hell didn't Sam call a timeout to cool Mav's momentum down? Took Sam until the time when the Mavs lead by somewhere around 8 to call a timeout, by that time it was too late.


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