# Surprised we didn't go after Jeffries.



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

And I'm saying this from a distance, cause I personally don't think he's that good, but a lot of teams like him. He's big, relatively athletic, and most importantly a good, scrappy defender. I would've like him more than Cro, and the Wizards would've taken Marquis Daniels in a second. Wonder why we didn't go after him?


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## t1no (Jul 10, 2005)

Agreed. He's also big enough to play some center.


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## Chalie Boy (Aug 26, 2002)

Yea really we should have, i'd prefer we have him over Croshere...my theory is that we needed to add another white guy...the team is all of a sudden lacking in that department and don't think that its a coincidence either


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

t1no said:


> Agreed. He's also big enough to play some center.


No he's not. Jeffries ain't playin on center.


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## t1no (Jul 10, 2005)

_Dre_ said:


> No he's not. Jeffries ain't playin on center.


How would you know? Exactly, KVH played come center last year and the year before last year so i don't see a reason why Jeffries wouldn't be able play some center. He averages over 25 minutes a game, so do you really think he can be happy with 15 minutes tops in the Mavericks? Playing a small line up for 5-10 minutes could really give us an advantage.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

T1no. I live in DC. I've seen Wizards games. Jared Jeffries has never played center in the 3/4 years he's been in DC. That's how I know. He cannot play center.


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## t1no (Jul 10, 2005)

_Dre_ said:


> T1no. I live in DC. I've seen Wizards games. Jared Jeffries has never played center in the 3/4 years he's been in DC. That's how I know. He cannot play center.


Same goes for KVH, have you watched the Suns play? Diaw sometimes plays SG or C, Marion plays PF sometimes and Amare is a PF but plays C. I have seen him run and he is really fast, i wouldn't mind watching the Mavericks play some fast ball for around 10 minutes. 
Of course there is a lot of players we can chase after but what about the chemistry? He's young and improving so there is no way in hell he is going to be happy with averaging 15 minutes a game.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

t1no said:


> Same goes for KVH, have you watched the Suns play? Diaw sometimes plays SG or C, Marion plays PF sometimes and Amare is a PF but plays C. I have seen him run and he is really fast, i wouldn't mind watching the Mavericks play some fast ball for around 10 minutes.
> Of course there is a lot of players we can chase after but what about the chemistry? He's young and improving so there is no way in hell he is going to be happy with averaging 15 minutes a game.


 So you would be willing to weaken our center spot for Jared Jeffries?


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## t1no (Jul 10, 2005)

_Dre_ said:


> So you would be willing to weaken our center spot for Jared Jeffries?


Weaken? It's not like we are going to get rid of Dampier or Diop, i just think playing small ball for 5-10 minutes could really give us an advantage over most teams. I also think it could have given us a pretty good advantage over the Heat in the Finals.


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## VeN (May 10, 2005)

Chalie Boy said:


> Yea really we should have, i'd prefer we have him over Croshere...my theory is that we needed to add another white guy...the team is all of a sudden lacking in that department and don't think that its a coincidence either


all kidding aside, its the truth


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

t1no said:


> Weaken? It's not like we are going to get rid of Dampier or Diop, i just think playing small ball for 5-10 minutes could really give us an advantage over most teams. I also think it could have given us a pretty good advantage over the Heat in the Finals.


I'm not gonna talk about the finals...I'm just gonna disagree...the finals are so over with I just don't want to talk about them anymore. I'll just say small ball would not have worked. I'll just disagree.


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## t1no (Jul 10, 2005)

_Dre_ said:


> I'm not gonna talk about the finals...I'm just gonna disagree...the finals are so over with I just don't want to talk about them anymore. I'll just say small ball would not have worked. I'll just disagree.


Well i think small ball would have worked when Oneal was on the bench,


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## edwardcyh (Dec 13, 2005)

Chalie Boy said:


> Yea really we should have, i'd prefer we have him over Croshere...my theory is that we needed to add another white guy...the team is all of a sudden lacking in that department and don't think that its a coincidence either


Dallas is still paying for Shawn Bradley...

$4.8M for 2006-2007
$5.2M for 2007-2008

Evan Eschmeyer...

$3.7M for 2006-2007

That's two Caucasian players on the Dallas payroll in addition to Dirk. :biggrin:

Dallas Mavericks is an affirmative action, equal-opportunity employer...

:cheers:


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## StackAttack (Mar 15, 2006)

edwardcyh said:


> Dallas is still paying for Shawn Bradley...
> 
> $4.8M for 2006-2007
> $5.2M for 2007-2008
> ...


lol wtf? That's something I'd do, sign a max contract and then retire before the first game so I get paid for nothing.


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

t1no said:


> How would you know?


Maybe he's seen him play. Anyone who's seen Jeffries at Indiana U. or watched five minutes of a Wizards game knows he can't play center for a single possession.

He's a wing, who can guard the four.


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## t1no (Jul 10, 2005)

Rawse said:


> Maybe he's seen him play. Anyone who's seen Jeffries at Indiana U. or watched five minutes of a Wizards game knows he can't play center for a single possession.
> 
> He's a wing, who can guard the four.


The thing is most teams have undersize centers that's why i think it would be okay for him to play minutes at the 5 against subs.


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

t1no said:


> The thing is most teams have undersize centers that's why i think it would be okay for him to play minutes at the 5 against subs.


Jeffries isn't an undersized center though, since he's not a center. He's not even a power forward.

It'd be like asking Kirilenko to play center for Utah. Jeffries has a very slight body frame and isn't a good rebounder by power forward or center standards. He's not known for his post defense either.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

Rawse said:


> Jeffries isn't an undersized center though, since he's not a center. He's not even a power forward.
> 
> It'd be like asking Kirilenko to play center for Utah. Jeffries has a very slight body frame and isn't a good rebounder by power forward or center standards. He's not known for his post defense either.


 Thank you! My eyes haven't decieved me for 4 years.


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## edwardcyh (Dec 13, 2005)

*After signing Stevenson, Wizards pass on costly Jeffries* 
Aug. 7, 2006
CBS SportsLine.com wire reports 

WASHINGTON -- Having found a cheaper and more enthusiastic alternative in DeShawn Stevenson, the Washington Wizards said Monday they won't match the New York Knicks' offer sheet for restricted free agent Jared Jeffries.

The Wizards had seven days to match the Knicks' five-year, $30 million deal. They spent the week signing Stevenson -- who, like Jeffries, is known for his perimeter defense -- to a contract that will pay him the NBA minimum of $932,000 for the upcoming season. 

"Jared's representative made it crystal clear that he preferred being in New York," Wizards president of basketball operations Ernie Grunfeld said. "And we feel we have plenty of players who can take up the slack. We have players that want to be here." 

The 6-foot-11, 240-pound Jeffries, selected by Washington with the 11th overall pick in the 2002 draft, has averaged 6.1 points and 4.9 rebounds in four seasons with the Wizards. Last season he started 77 games and averaged 6.4 points, but his greatest asset was his versatility as a defender. 

Grunfeld said the Wizards will make up for Jeffries' absence with Stevenson and the return of Jarvis Hayes, who missed most of last season with a knee injury. The Wizards have also signed forward Darius Songaila and have high hopes for second-year player Andray Blatche, who played well during summer league games. 

"We've added a lot of toughness to this ballclub," Grunfeld said. "Our toughness is going to get better, as well as our competitiveness. We're deep at every position. In all likelihood, this is the team we're going to camp with, and we're very comfortable with it." 

A tentative Wizards starting lineup has either Stevenson or Hayes playing next to All-Star point guard Gilbert Arenas, with forwards Caron Butler and Antawn Jamison and probably center Brendan Haywood in the frontcourt. Training camp begins in early October. 

When listing the key contributors for the upcoming season, Grunfeld did not mention first-round draft pick Oleksiy Pecherov, the latest indication that the Wizards are leaning against buying out the contract the 20-year-old Ukrainian has with a French team. With Washington's roster more or less set, Pecherov could benefit from the greater playing time he would get from another year in Europe before coming to the NBA. 

"We think he has a good future in front of him," Grunfeld said. "But he's only 20 years old, so we don't want to put too much pressure on him at this time." 

AP NEWS
The Associated Press News Service

http://www.sportsline.com/nba/story/9589773


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## edwardcyh (Dec 13, 2005)

Is it just me, or 5 years for $30M seems like a whole lot of money for Jeffries....


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## t1no (Jul 10, 2005)

Rawse said:


> Jeffries isn't an undersized center though, since he's not a center. He's not even a power forward.
> 
> It'd be like asking Kirilenko to play center for Utah. Jeffries has a very slight body frame and isn't a good rebounder by power forward or center standards. He's not known for his post defense either.


I agree but is Diaw a center? is Amare a center? is KVH a center? no but he tried to play center against Alonzo in the finals but it didn't work, though Jeffries could have done a much better job. You guys misunderstood me, i did not say Jeffries is a center or a undersized center, i just think he could do a decent job playing the 5 for 5-10 minutes against subs. Shoot even Dirk could do a decent job defending subs at the 5 for not more then 10 minutes.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

edwardcyh said:


> Is it just me, or 5 years for $30M seems like a whole lot of money for Jeffries....


Yeah...but guys aren't getting paged fair value anymore.



> I agree but is Diaw a center? is Amare a center?


The Phoenix system doesn't need a true PF...and Diaw and Stoudemire are much closer to true centers than Jeffries.



> You guys misunderstood me, i did not say Jeffries is a center or a undersized center, i just think he could do a decent job playing the 5 for 5-10 minutes against subs.


Well I disagree. He cannot play a decent center, because he's never _played_ center. You seem to be frustratingly content with the notion that just because you're tall you can play big. Despite two people telling you Jeffries hasn't played an interior position in his life, you seem to think we should just put him there just because he's tall. I don't know what to say.


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

t1no said:


> I agree but is Diaw a center?


Diaw has an array of offensive moves around the basket that Jeffries has never had. He works as a five in Phoenix's unconventional offense because his offensive capabilties fit extremely well with the system. How many other teams would Diaw play center for? Diaw is also a good post defender and has a beefier frame than Jeffries. He's also a better rebounder. 



> is Amare a center?


Completely different player. Amare's a 4/5. Jeffries is a 2/3.



> is KVH a center? no but he tried to play center against Alonzo in the finals but it didn't work, though Jeffries could have done a much better job.


Alonzo would have destroyed Jeffries. Van Horn is a power forward. Jeffries is a wingman who is tall enough to defend some fours. I don't think you understand how lanky he is. He's not anything to write home about as a post defender and he is poor offensively whether it's down low or otherwise.



> You guys misunderstood me, i did not say Jeffries is a center or a undersized center, i just think he could do a decent job playing the 5 for 5-10 minutes against subs. Shoot even Dirk could do a decent job defending subs at the 5 for not more then 10 minutes.


Dirk would do better defending bigs. Perimeter defense is Jeffries MO, and a lot of that has to do with his length and size. A 6'11 SG/SF that has the above average quickness that Jeffries does is totally _wasted_ if you're just going to stick him against guys who are just as tall and outweigh him by 40 pounds. As a PF/C, even in spot minutes, Jeffries is totally overmatched by bigger, stronger players. 

Jeffries is a player who's effective when you exploit his advantages. Sticking him at center is completely counterproductive.


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## t1no (Jul 10, 2005)

_Dre_ said:


> The Phoenix system doesn't need a true PF...and Diaw and Stoudemire are much closer to true centers than Jeffries.


Diaw is much close to true centers than Jeffries? He's not a very good rebounder, he's not a good low post defender and he doesn't have any low post moves.


_Dre_ said:


> Well I disagree. He cannot play a decent center, because he's never _played_ center.


Same goes for KVH before he joined the Mavericks.


_Dre_ said:


> You seem to be frustratingly content with the notion that just because you're tall you can play big. Despite two people telling you Jeffries hasn't played an interior position in his life, you seem to think we should just put him there just because he's tall. I don't know what to say.


"You seem to be frustratingly content" ROFL you just made me laugh. and no that's not what i said but sure maybe you dreamed about it and heard me say that. With Jeffries playing the 4 or 5 (Dirk plays the 5 if he plays the 4), we can play the run and gun style for about 5-10 minutes with not much defense and that's all i am saying. 
"The Phoenix system doesn't need a true PF" That's true and it would be nice to play the run and gun style for a short period of time against teams that do not have a low post prescense.


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## t1no (Jul 10, 2005)

Rawse said:


> Dirk would do better defending bigs. Perimeter defense is Jeffries MO, and a lot of that has to do with his length and size. A 6'11 SG/SF that has the above average quickness that Jeffries does is totally _wasted_ if you're just going to stick him against guys who are just as tall and outweigh him by 40 pounds. As a PF/C, even in spot minutes, Jeffries is totally overmatched by bigger, stronger players.
> 
> Jeffries is a player who's effective when you exploit his advantages. Sticking him at center is completely counterproductive.


"As a PF/C, even in spot minutes, Jeffries is totally overmatched by bigger, stronger players."
He's going to play against subs, "totally overmatched by bigger, stronger players." with no low post moves. 
I still agree with your post but look at it this way, we don't need a real center when we use the run and gun style.


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

t1no said:


> Diaw is much close to true centers than Jeffries? He's not a very good rebounder, he's not a good low post defender and *he doesn't have any low post moves.*


LMAO

Safe to say you didn't watch Diaw play last year? Not even against your team in the WCF?

http://www.82games.com/0506/05PHO11A.HTM

Diaw averaged 13.3 points per game last year, and 51 percent of his scores came on the inside at 65 percent shooting. And he hardly ever dunks.


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

t1no said:


> "As a PF/C, even in spot minutes, Jeffries is totally overmatched by bigger, stronger players."
> He's going to play against subs, "totally overmatched by bigger, stronger players." with no low post moves.


They don't need low post moves if they can just bully their way to the basket and get fed the ball. These are NBA players we're talking about.



> I still agree with your post but look at it this way, we don't need a real center when we use the run and gun style.


You also just can't say "Well, we're going to play run-and-gun basketball." You need a lot of things for that, most of which a distributor. Phoenix has two. I realize that Dallas is highly capable of an uptempo game, but they don't have the personnel to do what Phoenix does. The number of teams that can duplicate the Suns' offense, even if they wanted to, is incredibly scant.


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## t1no (Jul 10, 2005)

Rawse said:


> LMAO
> 
> Safe to say you didn't watch Diaw play last year? Not even against your team in the WCF?
> 
> ...


against Devin Harris, sorry but you don't need low post moves to score against Harris.
"They don't need low post moves if they can just bully their way to the basket and get fed the ball. These are NBA players we're talking about."
Or he just ran into the paint against a defender like Diop, too slow for him.


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## t1no (Jul 10, 2005)

Rawse said:


> You also just can't say "Well, we're going to play run-and-gun basketball." You need a lot of things for that, most of which a distributor. Phoenix has two. The number of teams that can duplicate the Suns' offense, even if they wanted to, is incredibly scant.


When i say the run and gun style, i don't mean it like the Suns do it but like the old Mavericks use to do.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

t1no said:


> "The Phoenix system doesn't need a true PF" That's true and it would be nice to play the run and gun style for a short period of time against teams that do not have a low post prescense.


 
T1No, you're wasting a whole thread talking about 10 measly minutes for Jeffries playing the 5...when a) the reason he's known is for perimeter defense, and b) he's never played center. 

You may not have said what I said you said verbatim, but by saying you want him to play these 10 minutes at the 5, you're automatically implying you think he'd be a decent center just on the merit he's tall, seeing as how we both told you he's never played it. Put two and two together. Logic. Am I wrong here?


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

t1no said:


> against Devin Harris, sorry but you don't need low post moves to score against Harris.



Diaw wasn't scoring in the post against Devin Harris all season.



> "They don't need low post moves if they can just bully their way to the basket and get fed the ball. These are NBA players we're talking about."
> Or he just ran into the paint against a defender like Diop, too slow for him.


Bottom line: Jeffries as a center is a liability on both ends of the ball, since he's a poor offensive player and isn't strong enough to defend guys who'd be playing center. Jeffries as a SG/SF creates mismatches and plays to his defensive strengths. That's why his greatest success as an NBA player (last season) came when his coach played him as a wing.


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## t1no (Jul 10, 2005)

_Dre_ said:


> T1No, you're wasting a whole thread talking about 10 measly minutes for Jeffries playing the 5...when a) the reason he's known is for perimeter defense, and b) he's never played center.
> 
> You may not have said what I said you said verbatim, but by saying you want him to play these 10 minutes at the 5, you're automatically implying you think he'd be a decent center just on the merit he's tall, seeing as how we both told you he's never played it. Put two and two together. Logic. Am I wrong here?


You don't need a real center to play the gun and run style. You must think that the Mavericks would still play a slow tempo game with Jeffries playing the 4 or 5.
"T1No, you're wasting a whole thread talking about 10 measly minutes for Jeffries playing the 5...when a) the reason he's known is for perimeter defense, and b) he's never played center." 
Lose the attitude, i'm just posting my opinions so if you don't like it then don't answer to my post.


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

t1no said:


> When i say the run and gun style, i don't mean it like the Suns do it but like the old Mavericks use to do.


Back when they had Steve Nash?



t1no said:


> You don't need a real center to play the gun and run style.


You do, however, need a distributor and a couple of strong rebounders. Otherwise, you'd better pray everything you shoot goes in (unlikely without a true floor general) because you're going to get scored on like crazy.


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## t1no (Jul 10, 2005)

Rawse said:


> Bottom line: Jeffries as a center is a liability on both ends of the ball, since he's a poor offensive player and isn't strong enough to defend guys who'd be playing center. Jeffries as a SG/SF creates mismatches and plays to his defensive strengths. That's why his greatest success as an NBA player (last season) came when his coach played him as a wing.


I agree but i still think it could work.


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