# Michael Finley, running with the Wolves?



## SuperHerbie (Jul 11, 2005)

Somebody help me out, I'm not sure if I've got the right idea about the one-time amnesty dealie. I'm starting to think that it might lead to the Wolves being able to pick up a player like Michael Finley on the cheap, assuming no other team got crazy and decided to offer like, half or more of their MLE.

If the Mavs decide to use the Allan Houston exception to cut Michael Finley then they're still on the hook for his contract, but not required to pay any luxury tax. My understanding of the rule is that *Dallas would be required to pay the difference between whatever contract he ends up signing and his old one* . I did also hear that the player actually gets the value of their contract *plus* whatever they sign with another team for, but it doesn't make sense to me because I doubt the league would allow any players to have "double contracts."

That said, wouldn't it restore a lot of your faith in the Wolves management if they were able to pick up Michael Finley on a veteran's minimum contract? I heard McHale saying that we'd make some noise in the off-season and so far we haven't. Unless you consider re-upping with Mad Dog and picking up Skita and Jones to be a "big splash."

So what does that leave? The Mavs aren't going to trade him, then they'd still be on the hook for the money, plus they'd only wind up with a couple of questionable type guys on the return from a team that will then, immediately cut Michael Finley themselves. I haven't heard about any real sounding deals with Sam or Wally or anybody else, and since we can't afford to be big players in free agency what else could we really do?

I'm really not sure how teams would go about working something out with a guy in advance, but does anyone know if we're discussing some of the players who might get cut for the financials?


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## sheefo13 (Jul 13, 2002)

Well I would love it! I think if this did happen I would hope Hassell is traded. If not, I would have McCants in the NBDL and do something with either Finley/ Hassell next year. He would be a very good addition though. Well now that I think about it, Hassell would be the backup for Wally since Ebi doesn't look too apealing.


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## SuperHerbie (Jul 11, 2005)

Think about the potential:

Huddy/Sam/Bracey
McCants/Finley/Hassell
World/Ebi/Hoiberg(IR)
Ticket/Mad Dog/Skita
Kandi/Griff/Jones

We can keep Trenton and we improve our open floor efficiency, 3FG% and we'd have another slashing swing player who might get us some more FT opportunities.

But, are we allowed to talk to players considered likely to be dumped? Is there any reason we couldn't be working a deal right now or can we just pay the league some draft picks in advance?


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## sheefo13 (Jul 13, 2002)

I would think Hassell would not take the 3rd string. For a fact though he will be at least the backup sf... Or would start. Or McCants in the NBDL is always an option... But I am sure you can not talk to a player about a contract while he is already under contract.


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## SuperHerbie (Jul 11, 2005)

Sorry, should have mentioned that I put that out there in no particular order. But with that roster, we'd probably be a lot more likely to make a trade involving any of Trenton, Sam or Wally. Thing is, does anyone really expect that we're going to make any significant moves?


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## NugzFan (Jul 26, 2002)

might have to get in line behind the spurs, suns, nuggets, bulls, pacers, heat and pistons. and probably a few others too.


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## sheefo13 (Jul 13, 2002)

There are really no lines when it comes down to free agency.....


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## kamego (Dec 29, 2003)

Pistons are taking about offering full MLE in order to get a piece of Finley. The only team he might take a discount to play for is Chicago, since he lives there in the offseason.


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## kaniffmn (Jul 29, 2003)

Though I welcome the idea of bring Finley to the team, I don't see him coming here for a variety of reasons. As was said before, he is going to be a hot commodity because realistically, if he was in the free agent market at the beginning of this off season, he would've been the no.3 SG on the market. So I think he would've gotten paid like that as well. But there are a lot of teams out there that would love to have him, and I just don't think the Wolves rank very high on the list. I could see him going to Detroit or San An just for the sake of being on a team that is almost guaranteed to be fighting for the title. The Heat look like a good option too though. I am starting to have serious doubts about McHale doing something this offseason. He's going to have to pull something huge out of his arse. I don't have any respect for him as a GM as it is anyway. He's absolutely terrible.


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## SuperHerbie (Jul 11, 2005)

Are you actually saying that players like Michael Finley are going to be allowed to have *double contracts?* What's the point? If the guy was worth the money in the first place are you really gonna cut him? That said, I can't imagine how the league would allow players who are evidentally not worth the luxury tax (The team who cuts the player is still responsible for his salary against *their* cap and their books, so all you're cutting a player for is luxury tax savings) being allowed basically, an "ineptitude bonus" for no longer being worth their contracts.

I think Finley is a heck of a player, I got thinking about this because I would like to believe that our teams Management could be smart enough to try and wrangle a deal like this. I'm sick of everyone complaining (although I completely agree) that McHale sucks or we never make any moves, or all of the other (accurate) complaints I read all over the net. I want what I think any Wolves fan wants: a commitment to doing what it takes to assemble a championship-caliber team from Wolves management.

Wouldn't it go a long way if we actually stopped hiding behind salary cap/free agency/Joe Smith draft pick penalties/lack of opportunities and acted just a bit more like the Mavericks or Knicks who find a way to be big off-season players every year? I gotta believe that we're doing something this year after last season, but I haven't really seen or heard anything to make me.

Does anyone really think theres going to be a LOT of full MLE offers for Finley? Does anybody think he'd go for more than that? If the deal with Griffin is only part of our MLE, why shouldn't we offer the rest to Michael Finley and hope he thinks playing with KG would be cool?


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## SuperHerbie (Jul 11, 2005)

I don't think Detroit will happen though. Finley would be backing up Rip *and* sharing time with Chauncey who will see time at the 2 spot with Flip coaching. I don't know that Michael Finley is ready for that yet.


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## kaniffmn (Jul 29, 2003)

SuperHerbie said:


> I'm sick of everyone complaining (although I completely agree) that McHale sucks or we never make any moves, or all of the other (accurate) complaints I read all over the net. *I want what I think any Wolves fan wants: a commitment to doing what it takes to assemble a championship-caliber team from Wolves management.*


That is pretty much what everybody is saying...I don't know if anyone believes that McHale is the right person for that job anymore. I sure don't. He is ok at developing post players. That's about all I see in him.


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## sheefo13 (Jul 13, 2002)

Honestly the only reason I would want McHale to have anything to do with the Wolves is to develop post players... I am sure 3/4th of the posters on BBB.net could do better than he is. I will not be surprised if McHale gets fired mid-season. The guy is pulling President Harding stuff, lets just hire all my friends over other qualifed people for the job..... Lets just get McHale out.

Honestly the only reason he is still here is because he supposedly had the minds behind the picking of KG...Wow did he get lucky.


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## socco (Jul 14, 2002)

sheefo13 said:


> Honestly the only reason I would want McHale to have anything to do with the Wolves is to develop post players.


I don't even want him for that. What post players has he developed during his time here? I know that's the reputation, that he can help make post players better, but who exactly are the great post players he's helped mold? KG? That's the only good big man we've really had, and he's not a dominant inside post player. So even in that category he does nothing for us.


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## kaniffmn (Jul 29, 2003)

Hate to say it but Socco is right. McHale can't take all the credit for what Garnett is today. And it's not like he turned Kandi into a real threat. Rasho was o.k. but like a lot of people think, his development was more because of KG. Mchale really hasn't molded anyone into anything. Sometimes I wonder...


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## sheefo13 (Jul 13, 2002)

But KG does have incredible post moves. The guy is not dominatant inside because he simply is not strong enough and will never be strong enough to physicaly dominate guys like Duncan, Shaq or even a guy like Dampier. Without what McHale has taught Garnett, Garnett would have never been MVP, scored nearly as many points as he scores now, nor defend as well not having known good post moves himself. 

But back to the topic. Teams like Pheonix, Detriot, San Antionio, and even Denver could offer him 1 to 1.5 mill a year. He apparently is not asking for the MLE. So really it would come down to which team is the best contender and which team will offer him the most money, and which is closer to his home right now. You would think it would come down to San Antionio and Minnesota then.....


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## SuperHerbie (Jul 11, 2005)

Thanks sheefo, that is the exact thought I had when I posted this topic! Personally, I don't think we're a bad option at all for Finley because he would play a much more significant role in the Wolves success than the Spurs.


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## sheefo13 (Jul 13, 2002)

I agree. But I still doubt we end up getting him because our front office id that dumb. I would be happy with a Flip Murray signing though. But man would we be a much better team if we did get Finley....


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## SuperHerbie (Jul 11, 2005)

sheefo13 said:


> I agree. But I still doubt we end up getting him *because our front office id that dumb.* I would be happy with a Flip Murray signing though. *But man would we be a much better team if we did get Finley....*



Exactly, this is the sort of move that good GM's and teams make to improve their squads. This is why everyone who hates on Wolves management ends up hating on Wolves management. Some team and some GM are going to get this guy and all the haters are right again if we can't convince someone to come and play with Kevin Garnett. This makes us all look very bush-league and deservedly uninvolved in serious discussions of elite NBA teams. With Finley the highest likelihood is that it will be a team in a similar situation as us, over the cap and able to land him cheap, not many of the teams that have much cap room are teams that Finley would be likely to sign with given his choice. We really should do this.


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## sheefo13 (Jul 13, 2002)

Well if we do not get Finley, what do you think about Alan Houston? I think he could get some good minutes here, maybe start and could teach McCants a lot about the league. So if we can't get Finley, I would think Houston can be an option.


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## timberwolvefan (Jun 19, 2005)

Sounds like a good deal to me


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## SuperHerbie (Jul 11, 2005)

Honestly, I'm much more inclined to believe that we'll get Allan Houston, if for no reason than that our personnel management has always been so painfully deficient. I'd really be a lot more fine if we wound up with Houston and Finley wasn't available, but since he is, I'd be awfully disappointed if we didn't at least make some real offers and try to pursue him.

I know I'm the new guy on these boards, so take that for what its worth, but I think it would be a real shame if we didn't pick up one of them. Either one would help. Finley really elevates the whole team and can start while we bring McCants along; Allan Houston makes us deeper from the bench and would probably have some decent games, but I really wouldn't want to rely on him to be more than a real good option off the bench.

Freddie is less likely to come back and offer productive play than he is to be gone all season, so we're starting in th hole at the 2/3 swing spot. Finley is more reliable and durable, so I'd rather have him. Houston will be a *bargain* if he stays healthy, but he doesn't always do that. His shooting is money and I really like him, especially cheap, I just expect that he could possibly miss 20 or more games. I would hope if we signed him that he wouldn't, but that's the chance you take with him.


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## Mr. Hobbes (Jul 1, 2005)

I'm not sure it'd be a good idea, signing another aging swingman. Seems like Sprewell all over again (I know Finley doesn't run his mouth like that, I mean his on-court performance)


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## Chalie Boy (Aug 26, 2002)

Actually........Finley>Spree, Finley>Hassell, Finley>Wally, Finley>Houston, Finley>whatever else is left out there. Didn't you guys sign Griffin to the MLE though?


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## sheefo13 (Jul 13, 2002)

Not all of it. We used almost 2 mill of it. So there is still a chance we could get Finley or Houston. Isn't it official though, Finley has been released?


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## Lynx (Mar 6, 2004)

^ No word yet if he has been released by Mavs.

It would be bad move by you guys to get Finley at this age. He's getting old and probably he will demand some big $$$ to get himself settle. Add to that, he's an offense(hot and cold) baller and has got no upside on defense.


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## sheefo13 (Jul 13, 2002)

He is an upgrade from Hassell and Sprewell though.


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## Chalie Boy (Aug 26, 2002)

Yes he is AND he wasn't 100% last year. This guy is still capable of 17-18 ppg while shooting the 3 at a 40% clip, he is not the best defender but he is certainly no where near the worst


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## Lynx (Mar 6, 2004)

sheefo13 said:


> He is an upgrade from Hassell and Sprewell though.


He is..but look at the other side of the picture. Where will you guys be if you give him a contract of between 2 to 3 year contract? Nobody is even gonna shop him if you put him on the trading block. Shouldn't you be thinking in terms of clearing the salary cap?


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## sheefo13 (Jul 13, 2002)

Cassell, Olowokandi, and Hoiberg are off the books next year. This team is trying to contend for a championship... You can't exactly worry about cap.


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## SuperHerbie (Jul 11, 2005)

No, you can't be worrying about the cap so much, but you do still need to try and make the kind of moves that put you into a position where you can be successful. Finley is not now at the same level he once was, but so what? This is someone who could really help our team and is going to be available for some team to sign. Cap space doesn't bother me, *this* players age doesn't bother me and Wolves management making some sort of moves to improve the roster doesn't bother me either. Getting Allan Houston would help, but getting Michael Finley would elevate the team. It's an important distinction, but since we need help, we should be excited when ( * more like if...* ) it arrives. 

I just don't like the idea that our biggest achievement so far this off-season has been to re-sign Mad Dog. I love Mad Dog, he's great to watch, but if that's all the team is willing to show us as evidence of commitment to re-tooling an underachieving team back into something respectable (ie: playoffs, NBA Finals, Championship Parades through downtown Minneapolis, etc.) then it really shows an alarming lack of ability to plan.


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## kaniffmn (Jul 29, 2003)

SuperHerbie said:


> I just don't like the idea that our biggest achievement so far this off-season has been to re-sign Mad Dog. I love Mad Dog, he's great to watch, but if that's all the team is willing to show us as evidence of commitment to re-tooling an underachieving team back into something respectable (ie: playoffs, NBA Finals, Championship Parades through downtown Minneapolis, etc.) then it really shows an alarming lack of ability to plan.


I couldn't have said it better myself. :clap:


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## sheefo13 (Jul 13, 2002)

Yeah I can't have been it better myself. :cheers:


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## SuperHerbie (Jul 11, 2005)

Stop it, I'm blushing...

But, in all seriousness, I am the new guy, so all I really want is to try and make an occaisional good point. Speaking of points, everyone can feel free to pump up my rep, no problems with me! 
fftopic: 

Whoops...


Anyways, I'm still trying to come up with a reason we shouldn't do this. On another board I post at, they think he's too old to contribute. I just don't have it in me to say how poor that argument sounds, but whatever.


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## kentuckyfan13 (Dec 26, 2003)

i dont want to do this...no more old guys


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## SuperHerbie (Jul 11, 2005)

kentuckyfan13 said:


> i dont want to do this...no more old guys



Not even when it would be so ridiculously cheap to do? This is probably the ultimate low risk/high payoff scenario for the Wolves based on our financials and who is available.

With all possible respect I would like to point out here that nobody would be talking about cutting Finley if he was 22 and everybody knew he was going to have the career he has had. 

Old guys? What about veteran savvy, or experience or...

Or...just screw it, he is going to help whatever team he plays for AND be dirt cheap to sign AND while he's helping us back from last seasons abyss wouldn't it just make it that much sweeter to know that Mark Cuban is still cutting him big check$$$?

Is there any part that does appeal to you? Only reason I ask is because I really can't see how this would be a bad thing...


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## SuperHerbie (Jul 11, 2005)

I've seen that the "Allan Houston Exception" expires 8/15/2005, so it will be interesting to see who all gets cut and whether or not any of these theories become reality. And, barring an as yet unknown trade, this will likely be our last opportunity to tweak the roster before the start of the regular season. So, now what I want to know is, does anyone think we're gonna even have the chance to pull the trigger on something like this?


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## sheefo13 (Jul 13, 2002)

Honestly, the Wolves will do nothing.... But why can't we discuss and dream?


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## SuperHerbie (Jul 11, 2005)

Sheef, I laughed a bit when I read that because we all know it's true. We'll do nothing, everyone will keep their jobs and us fans will be left holding the bag. Plus, the kicker is that they'll also probably raise ticket prices again, muscling out fans who make under $50k per year. 

If we haven't done something (anything) by the start of the regular season, I think I'm going to go Shawshank and write Glen Taylor a letter a day pleading with him to change management. 

Actually, I guess I should say by the trade deadline. The reality is that we do have a new coach, a new system, and some new faces. If the team comes blazing out of the gates, who wouldn't be satisfied? 

That's when roster moves cease to be so important, is when the right ones have already been made. This squad already has some real horsepower to it and maybe we as fans ask too much by expecting complete overhauls after an unsuccessful season, but man, I really want to get super fired up for this season and I ain't even close yet.


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## KJay (Sep 22, 2002)

it's still really early in the offseason give it time man.


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## sheefo13 (Jul 13, 2002)

You know what the Wolves did last summer??? They signed Eddie Griffin and Anthony Carter..... Both were just supposed to fill up the roster spots.


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## ACE (May 5, 2003)

I know this is OT but I couldn't be bothered starting a new thread

What about Lafrentz if he is released? He fills a greater need than Finley. 

Then again anyone is an upgrade over Kandi


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## sheefo13 (Jul 13, 2002)

Well I guess, as long as this team does something....


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## SuperHerbie (Jul 11, 2005)

Don't get me wrong, I like LaFrentz and all, but the last thing we need is another big guy who doesn't attack the basket and chucks up (ill-advised) long range jumpers. We've already got Skita and Eddie for that, what we really need is a more talented (scoring) version of Mark Madsen. You know, plenty of energy, good hustle, always seems to be in the right place to make a good play or help out on defense, but with more offensive ability. Since we aren't (likely) going to get that, I think our (last) best chance to improve during Free Agency would be to pick up Michael Finley or Allan Houston (assuming of course, they are both released).

There don't really seem to be any rumors about the Wolves out there and judging from seasons past, we aren't likely to pull off any sort of real blockbuster trade. I am convinced that this is how we are going to improve this off-season. Then again, I was totally (pleasantly) surprised when we made the trades for Sam and Spree.

Does anyone really believe that we're going to make a significant trade? Does anyone really believe that we're going to pull off any sort of Free Agency miracle? Of all the scenarios I can imagine that are available to my favorite team, this one (amnesty reject pick-up) seems the most likely to happen. What does that really mean? Squat. But, management promised significant movement this off-season.

All I want to know is: Where is it already?


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## sheefo13 (Jul 13, 2002)

SuperHerbie said:


> Does anyone really believe that we're going to make a significant trade? Does anyone really believe that we're going to pull off any sort of Free Agency miracle?


Nope. Apparantly McHale thinks a team improves if you do nothing and hope something good happens.... That isn't what happened last year so hopefully McHale would learn from his mistakes.


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## SuperHerbie (Jul 11, 2005)

sheefo13 said:


> Nope. Apparantly McHale thinks a team improves if you do nothing and hope something good happens.... That isn't what happened last year so hopefully McHale would learn from his mistakes.


Sad and true, it's the perfecta of misery...


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## SuperHerbie (Jul 11, 2005)

Bump.

Figured it might be fun to rehash...

(If only it could happen...)


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## sheefo13 (Jul 13, 2002)

Well he is officially a FA now... I would like to have him here but we have to get another big... It is that simple.


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## sheefo13 (Jul 13, 2002)

Well now Finley's agent talked to McHale and McHale has expressed interest. I am not sure how we could get Finley with our MLE all tied up into Griffin and Wilkens. They did say that we could use $3 mill on him? It doesn't make too much sense. Does that mean Griffin doesn't count against our MLE, just against the hard cap since we are resigning him then? That is what I thought before...


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## socco (Jul 14, 2002)

Griffin *does* count against the MLE.


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## sheefo13 (Jul 13, 2002)

Then how are we in the running of Finley? Doesn't make much sense that it seems like Griffina dn Wilkens have taken our whole MLE.


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## shiznit (Aug 19, 2005)

i wish this was our lineup
jaric
szcerbiack
finley
hassell 
kg


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## sheefo13 (Jul 13, 2002)

shiznit said:


> i wish this was our lineup
> jaric
> szcerbiack
> finley
> ...


It won't be possible to go on in the western confrence with playing 4 g/f's ana a pwer forwrard...


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## socco (Jul 14, 2002)

I don't really think there's much of a chance we get Finley, and I don't think we should try to. Other teams can offer him the full MLE, and have a better chance at winning. I'm happy without him.


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## SuperHerbie (Jul 11, 2005)

Apparently Kevin Garnett thinks we might have a shot and he thinks we should do it. Admittedly, we're the dark horse, but this crazy idea doesn't sound too crazy to KG. What if we're able to go in there and convince Finley that he might be the guy who helps us get to that next level? I'm not at all convinced that the Wolves are done with their roster moves and getting Finley would certainly do a lot of good things for us. I know all about the argument against having too many guys in the backcourt, but do we (seriously?) not have room for Michael Finley? I think that if anyone could convince him to come here it would be KG and it sounds like that's exactly what he's trying to do...


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## sheefo13 (Jul 13, 2002)

If Finley AND Wilkens are brought in, there is no doubt in my mind a trade is done. More than likely Hassell in this case. Now who would start? I am not sure. But hopefully KG can talk Finley into joining the wolves.


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## socco (Jul 14, 2002)

sheefo13 said:


> If Finley AND Wilkens are brought in, there is no doubt in my mind a trade is done. More than likely Hassell in this case. Now who would start? I am not sure. But hopefully KG can talk Finley into joining the wolves.


I'd be fairly surprised if EITHER of them are on the Wolves next year.


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## KokoTheMonkey (Aug 4, 2003)

Garnett deserves the MVP before the season even starts if he can get Finley in Minnesota.


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## sheefo13 (Jul 13, 2002)

Well Jim Stack, Glen Taylor, Kevin McHale, AND Kevin Garnett are flying out to Chi-town to try getting Finley to sign with the Wolves. Obviously the Wolves are doing the best they can possibly do to bring him in to Minny.


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## the main event (Aug 22, 2005)

ohhh man if i can see KG and Finley together! awsome!

KG can do it.he can bring finley in!

P=L=E=A=S=E!


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## sheefo13 (Jul 13, 2002)

I am starting to like our chances of getting Finley. Only time will tell though. Hopefully we will know where we stand by tomorrow.


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## kamego (Dec 29, 2003)

More power to the Wolves getting him lol. As long as he isn't in Miami I am happy lol.


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