# Raptors To Trade Lottery Pick?



## nwt (Apr 24, 2005)

> *Raptors To Trade Lottery Pick?*
> _The Star_ - Raptors GM Bryan Colangelo, in a telephone interview with the Star yesterday, said there could be players in the draft to help put Toronto on the road to contention. "But we could use our pick to leverage a deal to get veteran help right away," he said.
> 
> "There's no shortage of good, young talent" on the Raptors' roster, he said. "Another young guy with no experience may not be the best thing for this team."
> ...


Link


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

This is more a case of BC letting other GM's know that the pick can be had than it is him suggesting we will trade the pick (with any certainty).


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

If you look at his history, he traded Luol Deng for a future to make sure he had room for Nash and Q Rich.

He won't be shy about it if there is a deal he likes out there. Given what he thinks are needs, I wonder which bigs and PGs specifically he has identified as targets. Given the weakness of the FA class, it makes sense that he is at least open to this to see if a deal is out there. That Jalen trade becomes pretty big all of a sudden.

Maybe we should start a list of potential PG targets, ie PGs that seem expendable or at least moveable that fit within a BC vision.

I'll start with Ridnour. While it might have just been some media spin, he was not happy entirely about losing his PT. With an extension coming, and an arena up in the air, would they consider some variation of Luke for the Raps' 1st?

Anyone else?


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## Benis007 (May 23, 2005)

I've said it before that I think this team is as young as it should be. 

This draft is a big crap shoot right now, jury is out on pretty much everyone on the board, more so than in drafts past.

I am down for trading our pick for a center or point guard.

I am really interested to find out just what our pick is worth.

More importantly, what can - S&T James + our 1st rounder get us. I am even willing to toss in Graham, Bonner or Hoffa, I think that Villanueva isn't untouchable either, I guess everyone has a price.

Really interested in seeing something happen here.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

I'm sure Marbury is there for the taking... I'll pass.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

JuniorNoboa said:


> I'm sure Marbury is there for the taking... I'll pass.


Ditto.


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## TRON (Feb 29, 2004)

random ideas....

-T.J Ford will be up for an extention this summer, how does Millwaukee feel about this guy long term?
with Magloire up next year, maybe a package of Ford/Magloire for our 1st rounder/E.Will/Hoff? don't know if that would be enough

-Steve Blake in Portland is having a decent year on a bad team, really good assist to turnover ratio (3.76)

-Chicago is laden with guards, maybe revisit the Duhon talks


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## madman (Oct 20, 2003)

i wouldnt be upset, we need a big and a pg and there are very good ones in this draft


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

This team needs more youth.. so I'd say no, unless we receive a young player in return.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

vigilante said:


> This team needs more youth.. so I'd say no, unless we receive a young player in return.


We don't need inexperienced youth, IMO. I don't mind us getting players the same age as Bosh and 'em but I don't want guys we have to wait on for three years. We'll start to look like Chicago, stuck in young player limbo waiting for someone to come in and put them on his shoulders.


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## Benis007 (May 23, 2005)

speedythief said:


> We don't need inexperienced youth, IMO. I don't mind us getting players the same age as Bosh and 'em but I don't want guys we have to wait on for three years. We'll start to look like Chicago, stuck in young player limbo waiting for someone to come in and put them on his shoulders.


See Clippers, Los Angeles.

I think we need a vet.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

vigilante said:


> This team needs more youth.. so I'd say no, unless we receive a young player in return.


You don't get a say.


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## aizn (Jun 19, 2005)

madman said:


> i wouldnt be upset, we need a big and a pg and there are very good ones in this draft


u wouldnt b upset at trading the pick because there are good big's n pg's in the draft? im confused lol


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## ansoncarter (Dec 22, 2004)

ridnour does look pretty nash-like at times. I remember someone from the Sonics saying he was the best passer he'd seen since Pete Maravich


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## changv10 (Apr 25, 2005)

Since, we are below the cap, sign and trade Mike James + lotto 1st rounder + Araujo for TJ Ford + Jamal Magloire would be absolutely great. Ford is the pass first point that we need, and Magloire is the big man anchor that we want. 

Ford
Peterson
Villanueva
Bosh
Magloire

That's one heck of a starting 5. Then you have Calderon backing the point. Bonner a big man shooting 3s. Slokar and Pape sharing some big man duties. Graham would backup the 2/3... and the team looks playoff bound. 

Mo Williams is underused in Milwaukee and would flourish with this opportunity. Ditto for Bogut. They get James who can backup both guard positions effectively. They can use their 1st to get young and still maintain their core.


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## shookem (Nov 1, 2005)

speedythief said:


> We don't need *inexperienced* youth, IMO. I don't mind us getting players the same age as Bosh and 'em but I don't want guys we have to wait on for three years. We'll start to look like Chicago, stuck in young player limbo waiting for someone to come in and put them on his shoulders.


inexperienced is the key word here. We know BC has solid hook-ups in Europe, maybe he's found out that really the only good player that fits the Raps, isn't going to declare....Tiagoooooooooo Splitttttteeerrrrrrr (as it will sound over the Raps PA).


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

It's just nice to know that BC has been very vocal about his options, whether it's from keeping the draft pick to trading the pick along with a signed and trade + rights to a euro to acquire a young, established player. 

The options are vast, so the possibilities are endless considering how well inquired BC is with the CBA.


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## icehawk (May 30, 2003)

Plausible trades?

TO CHI: Kirk Hinrich, Othella Harrington, CHI 1st 2006 
TO TOR: Charlie Villanueva, Rafael Araujo, TOR 1st 2006

The only way we could ever get Hinrich in by trading away CV. Duhon is not worth our first. Gordon is not what we need. Hinrich is a great leader, shooter, passer, defender, and one of the best young PGs in the league. We move down a bit, but most of the positions we need are later on (maybe draft Splitter, Brewer, or Carney).

Chicago gets rid of Harrington, moves significantly higher in the draft, and can opt out of Hoffa's contract next year. CV gives them a sure-fire young scoring PF which they need and ours and NYK's pick can fill out the rest. They can draft Alridge and an all-around senior guard like Roy.


TO MIL: Matt Bonner, TOR 1st 2006
TO TOR: TJ Ford, Dan Gadzuric

TJ gives us a young, pass-first PG and Gadzuric gives us a freak athlete at the center spot.

Milwaukee doesn't want to let Magloire go unless CV is going the other way (despite Mags leaving them - Bucks fans). Gadz is rotting away on the bench (while getting paid decent cash) and Bell and Mo Williams can take care of the point. The Bucks can now go draft one of those PFs available to compliment Bogut for the next 10 years. Bonner can replace Kukoc, I guess?


TO SEA: G Jose Calderon, TOR 1st 2006, TOR 2nd 2006
TO TOR: G Luke Ridnour, SEA 1st 2006

Simple trade if Ridnour wants out. We might need to give up a little more, though.


Just thought of throwing out some ideas. I guess it's just my way of procrastinating cause I have a paper to write tonight.


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## Odomiles (Mar 23, 2004)

Charlie Villanueva is really the only player who keeps me interested in the Raptors (besides Bosh obviously). If the Raptors traded him I would be incredibly disappointed.

He's the kind of guy who would be willing to stick around here for his entire career. He's shown flashes of brilliance this season and he's still very young. You don't trade a guy like that. As far as I'm concerned, he should be an untouchable.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

At this point only Bosh is untouchable, that said, the return would have to be unreal to give up CV and the pick.

Hinrich and the CHI pick is not "unreal"

In any deal, I think the pick will be the big part of our end.


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## aizn (Jun 19, 2005)

hopefully we'll get a high draft pick and get a proven all star on our team.


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## clutchmoney (Feb 14, 2006)

Odomiles said:


> Charlie Villanueva is really the only player who keeps me interested in the Raptors (besides Bosh obviously). If the Raptors traded him I would be incredibly disappointed.
> 
> He's the kind of guy who would be willing to stick around here for his entire career. He's shown flashes of brilliance this season and he's still very young. You don't trade a guy like that. As far as I'm concerned, he should be an untouchable.



agreed. charlie actually wanted to play here. you don't trade a guy like that, since we'vre had players like Billups screw us over. its nice to see that a guy wanted to come here.

i honestly think he will be Rasheed Wallace+ ... the guy needs to add some weight, and probably work on his inside game. him and Bosh are going to be BEASTS. We need a 'true' point guard and a BIG BODY and this team will be ready for the playoffs.


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

blowuptheraptors said:


> You don't get a say.


Riiiight.. because thats what I was getting at. Obviously I was just stating my opinion. Stop reading into my posts so much.


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## icehawk (May 30, 2003)

blowuptheraptors said:


> At this point only Bosh is untouchable, that said, the return would have to be unreal to give up CV and the pick.
> 
> Hinrich and the CHI pick is not "unreal"
> 
> In any deal, I think the pick will be the big part of our end.


As much as I like CV, Hinrich has more value and would be a much better fit for this team. Us moving down in the draft is just compensating Chicago.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

I wouldn't be opposed to trading the pick but would really prefer to get a lower pick in return- high enough to grab Rondo might be nice.


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## pmac34 (Feb 10, 2006)

blowuptheraptors said:


> If you look at his history, he traded Luol Deng for a future to make sure he had room for Nash and Q Rich.
> 
> He won't be shy about it if there is a deal he likes out there. Given what he thinks are needs, I wonder which bigs and PGs specifically he has identified as targets. Given the weakness of the FA class, it makes sense that he is at least open to this to see if a deal is out there. That Jalen trade becomes pretty big all of a sudden.
> 
> ...


PGs- Luke Ridnour, 
Cs -Jamaal Maloire, Nazr Mohammed 


Daft possibillities:
PGs: Rajon Rondo, that dude I cant remember
Cs: Patrick O'Bryant, Shelden Williams

remember, wee need bangers and pgs who can distribute well and shoot well


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## Ballyhoo (May 30, 2003)

pmac34 said:


> PGs: Rajon Rondo, that dude I cant remember


Marcus Williams?


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

vigilante said:


> Riiiight.. because thats what I was getting at. Obviously I was just stating my opinion. Stop reading into my posts so much.



Just buggin' ya.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

icehawk said:


> As much as I like CV, Hinrich has more value and would be a much better fit for this team. Us moving down in the draft is just compensating Chicago.



I like Kirk, but I don't know that he would be my first choice. I would say that Kirk is probably the toughest guy to get off that team.

Not that Ridnour would be my fav. but I think he is gettable, and fits the style. Plus, I think we could get him without giving up CV or Bosh.


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## Team Mao (Dec 17, 2005)

icehawk said:


> Plausible trades?
> 
> TO MIL: Matt Bonner, TOR 1st 2006
> TO TOR: TJ Ford, Dan Gadzuric
> ...


I like this deal but how about Eric Williams instead of Bonner? With the play of Charlie Bell and Mo Williams lately, maybe the Bucks want to fill another need (PF) in the draft. Losing Gadz gives them capspace to re-sign Mags if they want to.
I'm not sure about Ridnour deals because I see Calderon as being a very similar type of player in a year or 2 and it would be better IMO to have two slightly different styles of PG.


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## icehawk (May 30, 2003)

blowuptheraptors said:


> I like Kirk, but I don't know that he would be my first choice. I would say that Kirk is probably the toughest guy to get off that team.
> 
> Not that Ridnour would be my fav. but I think he is gettable, and fits the style. Plus, I think we could get him without giving up CV or Bosh.


Definately agree. Hinrich is tough to get because he's the leader of that young team. He'd be my first choice cause of his leadership, shot, and D advantage over Ridnour and TJ, but he'll cost too much.

Beggers can't be choosers and Ridnour might be our man (if Seattle is looking to deal him). I like our core of Bosh and Charlie.. add a pass-first point guard and who knows what those guys can put up.


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## mo76 (Jun 13, 2003)

changv10 said:


> Since, we are below the cap, sign and trade Mike James + lotto 1st rounder + Araujo for TJ Ford + Jamal Magloire would be absolutely great. Ford is the pass first point that we need, and Magloire is the big man anchor that we want.
> 
> Ford
> Peterson
> ...



great idea!!!!

This trade makes alot of sense. I really like the idea of the raptors getting TJ Ford.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

An added benefit of getting Ford would be that he's one of Bosh's BFF's. 

That trade (Ford/Mags) would be killer. I don't know if Milwaukee is motivated to trade Ford, though. I presume they aren't despite Willams and Bell being solid pros.


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## mo76 (Jun 13, 2003)

icehawk said:


> Plausible trades?
> 
> TO CHI: Kirk Hinrich, Othella Harrington, CHI 1st 2006
> TO TOR: Charlie Villanueva, Rafael Araujo, TOR 1st 2006
> ...



I dont like your first trade. As someone said, Kirk is a leader of the Bulls, they dont want to trade him. And Charlie V is too much to give up for him anyways. The only way I would want the raptors to trade Charlie V is if it were for a good center.


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

icehawk said:


> TO MIL: Matt Bonner, TOR 1st 2006
> TO TOR: TJ Ford, Dan Gadzuric


I like your deals, but this one completely blows me away the most. Not only are they old enough to contribute right away, but they're also young enough to grow with this team along with the rest of our young'ins. :greatjob:


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## Dee-Zy (Jan 12, 2006)

no way in ****ing hell I'm trading CV for Hinrich.


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## mo76 (Jun 13, 2003)

Dee-Zy said:


> no way in ****ing hell I'm trading CV for Hinrich.


 :clap: :cheers:


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## TRON (Feb 29, 2004)

I doubt the bulls really need CV anyways, they already have Loul Deng and I'm sure they would want a big if they traded Hienrich


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

TRON said:


> I doubt the bulls really need CV anyways, they already have Loul Deng and I'm sure they would want a big if they traded Hienrich


Interesting...

You think CV is a true SF with a PF's body?


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## narrator (Feb 11, 2006)

icehawk said:


> TO CHI: Kirk Hinrich, Othella Harrington, CHI 1st 2006
> TO TOR: Charlie Villanueva, Rafael Araujo, TOR 1st 2006
> 
> The only way we could ever get Hinrich in by trading away CV. Duhon is not worth our first. Gordon is not what we need. Hinrich is a great leader, shooter, passer, defender, and one of the best young PGs in the league. We move down a bit, but most of the positions we need are later on (maybe draft Splitter, Brewer, or Carney).
> ...


Chicago doesn't need to move up anymore, what with the Knicks' pick looking for be 1st or 2nd overall (depending how the lotto balls fall, of course). They'll have 2 lottery picks and no incentive to make a deal to get younger. They'll be looking to add a big-time scorer with Gordon as bait.




icehawk said:


> TO MIL: Matt Bonner, TOR 1st 2006
> TO TOR: TJ Ford, Dan Gadzuric
> 
> TJ gives us a young, pass-first PG and Gadzuric gives us a freak athlete at the center spot.
> ...


I would do that in a heartbeat. Milwaukee wouldn't, though.


T


icehawk said:


> O SEA: G Jose Calderon, TOR 1st 2006, TOR 2nd 2006
> TO TOR: G Luke Ridnour, SEA 1st 2006
> 
> Simple trade if Ridnour wants out. We might need to give up a little more, though.


I think that's too much to give up for Ridnour. Calderon looks like Ridnour, to me (but I've seen very little of him in action, to be honest).

Seattle would move Ridnour, I think, but the Raptors would have to start from somewhere else.

I've stated before and I'll state it again: the Raptors do NOT need any more young players. They have more than enough. A team of infants CANNOT compete in the NBA. People need to be weaned from this addiction to potential.


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## narrator (Feb 11, 2006)

Ballyhoo said:


> Marcus Williams?


Yes! The Raptors need him and should take him with their pick if they keep him. I don't think they should take Rondo (no jump shot) or Rudy Gay (no heart). Splitter is unknown to me as is Bargnani.

If Colangelo is looking to deal, he needs to get a PG or a center in return. There is no negotiation about that. Personally, I think Gadzuric can be had from Milwaukee for semi-cheap. I think he would be an excellent addition to the Raptors. If they add him and Marcus Williams (and I don't care if they pick 1st, 4th, 5th, or 10th, they should take him if they don't trade the pick), the Raptors look very, very solid next year, which is the year they need to make their great leap forward. :biggrin:


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

TRON said:


> I doubt the bulls really need CV anyways, they already have Loul Deng and I'm sure they would want a big if they traded Hienrich


I don't know if you knew.. but Charlie is a natural PF.. The Bulls DEFINETLY could use him alongside Chandler.


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## icehawk (May 30, 2003)

vigilante said:


> I don't know if you knew.. but Charlie is a natural PF.. The Bulls DEFINETLY could use him alongside Chandler.


There's no way the Bulls would NOT want Villanueva. They need an offensive-minded PF to go along with the defensive-minded Chandler. Deng, Villy, and Chandler would be on the floor at the same time.

Looking back though, Hinrich would probably be the worst option for us to trade for. I think he'd be the best fit, and clearly the best player, but is way too pricey for my liking.


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## spuriousjones (Apr 24, 2004)

what we need is for a team to fall in must-have love with a prosect at our pick to get one of the pointguards we want. 

tj+gads would be perfect (and we'd still have money to sign pryzbilla) - perfect for us, at least 

another yound pg to add to the list: shaun livingston. despite the undeniable fact that sam cassel is the key to their success, the clippers have no desire to move him. livingston's their "point guard of the future" but this is a team that i could see unable to stop themselves from having to have what's behind the curtain.

devin harris is someone to look at. however, jason terry is an unrestricted free agent this summer and that complicates things. in la, where sam cassel is also an urfa, all signs point to cassel staying on for another two years or so--he even wants to coach their summerleague team.


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## Team Mao (Dec 17, 2005)

Okay, this one might be a stretch but how about the Mavericks as possible trading partners:

Toronto sends: Peterson, Hoffa, 5th pick
Dallas sends: Howard, Diop, Daniels

The way I see it is this way: the 5th pick>Diop and Daniels and Howard>MoPete and Hoffa (age and potential). Sow can replace Hoffa or 2nd round picks

Toronto's perspective: Daniels is very capable at playing PG and SGHe's got great size and is a great defender in the backcourt. Everyone says they want shotblocking and rebounding, well that's what Diop does. And Howard, well he's just a real soild player at the 3, we could move Charlie to the bench to backup the 3/4.

Dallas: With the 5th they'll have a shot at one of the PFs, Rudy Gay, Bargnani or Roy who IMO would be a good fit on the team. Peterson is a realy underrated player at the 2/3 and Hoffa is a big body who is severely misused in TO, could give them solid backup minutes behind Dampier and Mbenga can possibly replace Diop in terms of what they do on the court.

Our lineup: 
PG-Calderon, Barrett 
SG-Daniels,Howard 
SF-Howard, CV, 
PF-Bosh, CV, Bonner 
C-Diop, Bosh, Sow 
Use some capspace to bring 
Ukic over to backup the 1/2

Dallas:
PG-Terry, Harris
sg-Stacks,MoPete 
SF-Peterson, Draft? Marshall
PF-Dirk, Draft?, Powel
C-Damp, MBenga,Hoffa
MLE to fill bench holes


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## Team Mao (Dec 17, 2005)

^^^^^^^
Or: 
PG-Calderon/Daniels, Barret
SG-Howard, Daniels,Graham
SF-CV, Howard, Graham
PF-Bosh, CV, Bonner
C-Diop, Bosh, Sow


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## adhir1 (Dec 28, 2004)

Team Mao said:


> Okay, this one might be a stretch but how about the Mavericks as possible trading partners:
> 
> Toronto sends: Peterson, Hoffa, 5th pick
> Dallas sends: Howard, Diop, Daniels
> ...




i think charlie will be a better, wayyy better pro then Daniels or Howard are or even will be. if we trade CV i wants Devin harris ATLEAST back in return....plus Howard....


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## icehawk (May 30, 2003)

adhir1 said:


> i think charlie will be a better, wayyy better pro then Daniels or Howard are or even will be. if we trade CV i wants Devin harris ATLEAST back in return....plus Howard....


Read the proposal again. CV stays put.


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## icehawk (May 30, 2003)

Team Mao said:


> Toronto sends: Peterson, Hoffa, 5th pick
> Dallas sends: Howard, Diop, Daniels


It's pretty fair value-wise, but it doesn't really address any of our needs. We need a starting center and/or a PG, not two wingmen and a back-up 5 (I realize Diop is starting for a very good team, but he's still not that much better than what we have). 

Also, I doubt the Mavs would mess with their roster for a 5th overall pick. They want to win now and have one of the best records in the league. 

Any deal with Dallas involving the 5th pick better start and end with Devin Harris. That being said, Jason Terry is a FA next year and Mavs need a guy who can step in. Harris is that guy.

I just see the Raps and Mavs as bad trading partners unless they want to work out a sign-and-trade for Mike James after the draft to replace Terry.


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## Team Mao (Dec 17, 2005)

icehawk said:


> It's pretty fair value-wise, but it doesn't really address any of our needs. We need a starting center and/or a PG, not two wingmen and a back-up 5 (I realize Diop is starting for a very good team, but he's still not that much better than what we have).


Thanks for the well thought out criticism.

I don't think we should give up on Calderon as our pass-first PG just yet, him and Daniels complement each other well at the point position. In terms of defense and rebounding, Diop is a bargain and gives us shotblocking and rebounding in spades, plus he's still young enough to still be valuable when our team is expected to peak in a few years. You really don't think he's better than Sow and Hoffa? IMO a much safer bet than throwing a lot of cash at an injury prone Przy or an aging Nazr.



icehawk said:


> Also, I doubt the Mavs would mess with their roster for a 5th overall pick. They want to win now and have one of the best records in the league.


I think MoPete gives them a really valuable piece right now to help them take that step. M'Benga can step in to backup Damp and the 5th pick can give them a big piece, very likely to be more valuable than Diop and Daniels combined.



icehawk said:


> Any deal with Dallas involving the 5th pick better start and end with Devin Harris. That being said, Jason Terry is a FA next year and Mavs need a guy who can step in. Harris is that guy.
> I just see the Raps and Mavs as bad trading partners unless they want to work out a sign-and-trade for Mike James after the draft to replace Terry.


Devin Harris is not ready to step in, he's shown very little so far if you ask me. If Dallas wants to keep winning, no way are they handing over the reins to Harris next year. And I don't think he's that great of a PG....yet. Still nothing but potential. I expect Terry to be resigned.


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## ballocks (May 15, 2003)

it does look more and more like we're entering the lotto at 5. man, that's really disappointing for me. this will presumably be our last year in the dungeons of the league and we happen to be picking from... well, maybe the weakest pool of players i've seen in some time.

even the draft sites are confused. they don't know who to put in the top 5. could be any one of 12 or 13 guys from what i've seen. it's so random. and you see some players getting repped- like tyrus, lately noah- in the hopes that they'll become worthy of the treatment, but it doesn't work like that. man, it doesn't work like that at all.

of the players i've seen, and the team we've become (our short- and mid-range goals considered), i just can't think of a single collegian i believe could fit safely and help our cause immediately. there are a couple (shelden being the most notable, imo), but even they seem to be somewhat risky. iow, they don't seem to fit like a glove. they do have some traits to their names/games that would apply to the world of raptor basketball, but there are a lot of other things relating to this team (both draft-related and not) that wouldn't allow the transition to be made seamlessly... at all.

as of today, april 9, i would totally entertain offers of moving the pick. maybe we'll be able to find some league GM munching down seconds and thirds at the hype machine table. maybe. but most of those managers are probably picking around our position already.

and i mean, this current opinion of mine probably wouldn't even change in the event that we actually found ourselves moving up in the lottery (or winning outright). there's not a player right now, imo- let alone a group of them.

i dunno, maybe there isn't much interest, but if we indeed decided to keep it... man, it'd probably be like playing the lottery _again_. a lot of these players at the top seem to personify risk to me- and i don't think our team needs that right now.

peace


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## icehawk (May 30, 2003)

Team Mao said:


> Thanks for the well thought out criticism.
> 
> I don't think we should give up on Calderon as our pass-first PG just yet, him and Daniels complement each other well at the point position. In terms of defense and rebounding, Diop is a bargain and gives us shotblocking and rebounding in spades, plus he's still young enough to still be valuable when our team is expected to peak in a few years. You really don't think he's better than Sow and Hoffa? IMO a much safer bet than throwing a lot of cash at an injury prone Przy or an aging Nazr.
> 
> ...


I can't see Calderon developing into our pass-first PG any time soon. Definately not next season. He had a decent stint a couple months ago, but hasn't done anything since then. He's got pretty big flaws in his game, too. I would not bank on him being our starting point next year.

Peterson gives them a nice piece, but isn't that much of an upgrade (if any) over Daniels. The 5th overall pick would be nice for them, but they don't need it. Plus, no one in this draft appears able to step in right away and make an impact on a contending team.

Devin Harris has showed much more than Calderon and I truly believe he is a capable starter (on a rebuilding, non-contender team). Devin Harris is coveted, but Howard is the untouchable one. He's the glue-guy, still young, and has no flaws in his game.

I just don't see either team doing this.


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## cv3bandwagon (Mar 16, 2006)

My proposal as agreed to by Sonics fans is as follows:
To Milwakee:
Toronto's first round pick

To Seatle:
Jose Calderon
Jamal Magloire

To Toronto:
Luke Ridnour
Danny Fortson

Then after that in FA we sign Joel P, who's a good fit here and a good character guy.

Joel P
Bosh
Charlie V
Mo Pete
Luke Ridnour


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## Team Mao (Dec 17, 2005)

icehawk said:


> I can't see Calderon developing into our pass-first PG any time soon. Definately not next season. He had a decent stint a couple months ago, but hasn't done anything since then. He's got pretty big flaws in his game, too. I would not bank on him being our starting point next year.
> .


ROOKIE, INJURED.


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## icehawk (May 30, 2003)

Team Mao said:


> ROOKIE, INJURED.


1. He's an old rookie. The guy is 25 years old. He's played professional ball in Spain for a long time. No excuse.

2. Since he came back from that injury, he hasn't done anything. He's 3/3 post all-star, whoop dee ****ing doo.


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## Team Mao (Dec 17, 2005)

If we trade our pick, would you guys want to trade down to pick up another one or just trade it completely?
I was thinking about this the other day, maybe we could talk to a team who has 2 1sts this year like NO, and maybe try to swing a 3 way. like so:

TO sends: 5th pick, Eric Williams, Matt Bonner, Pape Sow, future 2nd, 2006 Miami 2nd
TO Gets: Magloire, Hornets 1st (~13th), Ilyasova

Why? Get Mags, Use the first to either add frontline depth (Armstrong, Boone, O'Bryant, Williams, or reach and take Milsap)which would my choice or PG (Collins, Rondo, Williams). Ilyasova is a nice tall SF prospect who gives us a Matt Bonner style shooter

Bucks send: Magloire, Mo Williams, Ilyasova
Bucks get: JR Smith, Eric Williams, Bonner, Pape Sow, Bucks first back from Hornets(~17th), TO and NO future 2nd

Why? Get a young exciting prospect in JR Smith, get a mid first to add a good depth player, Williams gives them some expiring depth at the 3, Bonner is a nice big who can take over Kukoc's role, Sow gives them some energy off the bench at the four/five.

Hornets send: 2 firsts (13th and 17th), Future 2nd, JR Smith
Hornets get: TO first and Mo Williams, 2006 Miami 2nd

Move up in the draft to grab a wing player which they desperately need. Bring in Mo Williams to fill Claxton's role if he plans to go elsewhere. Make Byron Scott happy by getting rid of JR Smith.


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## Team Mao (Dec 17, 2005)

icehawk said:


> 1. He's an old rookie. The guy is 25 years old. He's played professional ball in Spain for a long time. No excuse.
> 
> 2. Since he came back from that injury, he hasn't done anything. He's 3/3 post all-star, whoop dee ****ing doo.


In terms of PG on this team, we need someone who can direct the offence, run a pick and roll and get the ball into the right people's (CV and CB) hands as I think the offence can be run inside-out with either of those guys. I think that Jose is plenty capable of doing those things and I have my doubts about how healthy he has actually been after coming back from injury. He hasn't really had the opportunity to run the offence for any extended period in any game since he's been back (Mike James insists on playing PG when the two are on the court together) so that could be messing with his confidence. At the beginning of the season, when the offence was his to run you could see the confidence in his game; but once Sam started pulling him at the slightest mistake and the injury started setting in, then the confidence was gone. Sam needs to realize that all players are not the same and pulling the quick-hook act can really mess with some players in a terrible way.

In terms of being 25 and playing professionally in Spain for a long time. Maybe you haven't seen many European league games, but they hardly resemble NBA basketball at all. Not in terms of level but in terms of the style in which the game is played. Most players, especially in a position like PG where the player is running an almost entirely different style of offence with different types of teammates than he played with in Europe, will take some time to adjust to the NBA game. And jesus, he barely spoke English before he came last summer, you think that might make the adjustment a little tough.

Also, every team in the league right now is becoming more and more budget conscious (even Mark Cuban is starting to tighten up a bit), so we cannot build a team of high salary players at each position and still have any depth in the future. Bosh is due for a max extension which will kick in next summer; everyone wants to sign or trade for a big which is going to run about 8-10 million per; Mo will also be due for a raise next summer; if we look to bring in a 6-7 million per year PG, then that will put a lot of pressure on ownership when it comes time to extend Villanueva in a few years, who if he continues to improve will also be looking at a nice big extension. 

Do I think Jose is the perfect PG? No. Do I think he will ever be an all-star? No. But I think that he will become a 10-8 or 12-8 guy who can runs offence well and doesn't mind passing the ball to our scorers (Bosh, Villy, Mo, (insert acquired big man's name here)). Plus, he'll never be a guy who will demand much more than a MLE level contract, keeping the pencil pushers in MLSE front office quite happy which hopefully will keep ol' Dick out of Colangelo's office.

Edit- Oh, and he's not 25, not until next season.


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## shookem (Nov 1, 2005)

Team Mao said:


> Do I think Jose is the perfect PG? No. Do I think he will ever be an all-star? No. But I think that he will become a 10-8 or 12-8 guy who can runs offence well and doesn't mind passing the ball to our scorers (Bosh, Villy, Mo, (insert acquired big man's name here)).


Do you think he'll put up those numbers next season? Is he ready to be a 30+ mpg starter, does he have the skills to do that in the NBA?


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## Team Mao (Dec 17, 2005)

shookem said:


> Do you think he'll put up those numbers next season? Is he ready to be a 30+ mpg starter, does he have the skills to do that in the NBA?


I think that next season we can give him a shot and see if we can start running more of an offense focused on Bosh and Charlie with everyone else playing a supporting role. I think our focus this year should be some toughness in the middle to take the pressure off of Bosh in terms of rebounding and getting beat up. If Jose doesn't start showing that he can be a 30mpg guy by deadline, maybe we should start looking at who might be available.


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## shookem (Nov 1, 2005)

Team Mao said:


> I think that next season we can give him a shot and see if we can start running more of an offense focused on Bosh and Charlie with everyone else playing a supporting role. I think our focus this year should be some toughness in the middle to take the pressure off of Bosh in terms of rebounding and getting beat up. If Jose doesn't start showing that he can be a 30mpg guy by deadline, maybe we should start looking at who might be available.


fair enough.

So you think the Raps should sign another 'back-up' PG this offseason?


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## Team Mao (Dec 17, 2005)

shookem said:


> fair enough.
> 
> So you think the Raps should sign another 'back-up' PG this offseason?


His initials are R.L.U


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## shookem (Nov 1, 2005)

Team Mao said:


> His initials are R.L.U


Isn't it RL.U?


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