# Jamal Crawford..how's the ex Bull doing?



## elias03 (Nov 8, 2003)

*Jamal Crawford*

Today is his first game with the knicks and since i live in the new york area , im gonna watch the game and tell you guys how he plays with better players. Feel free to ask questions.


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## Guest (Oct 14, 2004)

Let us know if he jacks up any shots from the third row behind the bench with 22 seconds left on the shot clock?

And if Lenny smacks him upside the head for it?


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## Chi_Lunatic (Aug 20, 2002)

We traded Jamal Crawford & Jerome Williams for Eric Piatkowski, Othella Harrington & Frank Williams?

*Vomits*


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

I would expect him to have a big night.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

If course this is the one game NBA.com doesn't have an audio feed from tonight. :sigh:


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

New York 22, NJ 13, 3:00 left in Q1


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

29-19 NY, End Q1


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

35-27, 8:25 2nd


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

the dog is in the game with a bright orange headband! 

jamal has 12 points so far (i think, i am only semi-paying attention)

his first shot as a knick? a three attempt. it rattled in. 

the nets are going to *really* suck this year.

tied score 37-37 4:32 in the 2nd


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

has he attempted the crossover yet?

is it still sikkkkkkk?


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## elias03 (Nov 8, 2003)

I havent really been paying attention like i said i was but i am watching it slightly. So far, same old crawford. He didnt take many wild shots but he still refuses to take it to the whole. I believe the combo of him and marbury will flourish but that team will still suck because of its other players.


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## elias03 (Nov 8, 2003)

JYD is still painful to watch even in a knicks jersey


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

ny got off to a hot start.

nj on a run since about halfway thru the 2nd when the knicks took out their starters.

knicks have gone a bit cold in the third.

61-55 nets 4:50 3rd

ooh jamal bad shot. clank. 

he hasn't shot much in the second half.

and he does not look discernably "bigger" to me. arms a bit more defined. fwiw.


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## bullet (Jul 1, 2003)

Thanks Miz , please keep posting.

There isn't even a live Box score not on nba.com and not on espn , btw - anyone know of a live updated box score??


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>bullet</b>!
> Thanks Miz , please keep posting.
> 
> There isn't even a live Box score not on nba.com and not on espn , btw - anyone know of a live updated box score??


Knicks appear to be coming back!

Is Crawford burying 3s?

Dropping dimes?

Breaking ankles?

What's the scoop?


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

84-75 NY, 2:55 left Q4


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

88-77 1:00 left


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

New Jersey with just 3 points in Q4.

F. Jersey with 0 points in god knows how long.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>DaBullz</b>!
> New Jersey with just 3 points in Q4.


I wonder if Jamal is locking the Nets down?


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

Looks like its a final.

Crawford: 1-0
Bulls: 0-1 (even though that loss was so bad it should count for 2!)


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

92-84 final

Waiting for the box score


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

People will hate on Crawford all this year on this Bulls forum, but the sad truth is he is better then any player on our team. And the trade he was in was garbage. We could of got Antonie Walker probaly if we traded JC and JYD. Crawford is going to make Paxson sorry, especially now that we have an even smaller future 2 guard.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

While we're waiting for the box score, let's remind ourselves of Pietowski's opening game stats for us. He's the guy we're playing instead of Crawford...

E. Piatkowski 
9 minutes
1-5 FG
1-4 3Pt
0-0 FT
0 OREB
0 rebounds
2 assists
0 turnovers
0 steals
0 blks
2 personal fouls
3 points


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

Jamal may have trouble topping the Pistol's infinite assist-to-turnover ratio.

But give him time.



> Originally posted by <b>DaBullz</b>!
> While we're waiting for the box score, let's remind ourselves of Pietowski's opening game stats for us. He's the guy we're playing instead of Crawford...
> 
> E. Piatkowski
> ...


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Actually, here's the guy who we traded Jamal for, and then who we traded for the Polish Rifle:

Mutombo
19 minutes
4-6 FG
2-2 FT
9 rebounds
2 blocks
10 points


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

No box score yet, just the recap:

WILKES-BARRE, Pa. (AP) -- Jamal Crawford had 19 points, and the New York Knicks scored the first 21 of the fourth quarter to defeat the New Jersey Nets 92-84 Thursday night in the exhibition opener for both.

Making his Knicks debut after being acquired from the Chicago Bulls in an offseason trade, Crawford hit two 3-pointers in the game's opening moments and another in the fourth quarter as New York turned a 74-63 deficit after three periods into a 85-74 lead with 3:11 left.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Box score is in:

Crawford
36 minutes
4-13 FG
3-7 3PT
8-8 FT
0 Off. Rebounds
7 Total rebounds
6 assists
4 turnovers
2 steals
1 block
2 personal fouls
19 points


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## fl_flash (Aug 19, 2002)

Crawford played decent. He hit his first two threes. Got a nice block on some NJ scrub as the shot clock was winding down. He was pretty free with the dribble. A lot more, shall I say, spice. That'll play alright during preseason but come time for real games, he'll hurt his team as much as help them with too much over-dribbling. Towards the end of the game he was the quitessential Crawford. He made a sweet behind the back change of direction and right to a crossover. Shook his man completely. He then pulled up for a 24footer at the top of the key which proceeded to rim out with a NJ rebound. I believe he pulled up for a three with time running down at the end of the third quarter (or was it the half?) which clanked off the rim. He had the lane open to him with time to get closer and take a better shot. Of course, his shot wasn't dictated by the existance of that three point line. He could have scored two points for his team, instead they got nothing... 

You take the good with the bad.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

My first time really watching JC...

Are you guys CRAZY letting this kid go?????????????

He is SUPER talented..His handle is unbelievable and has a sick killer crossover....He shot pretty well tonight. 

He makes Marbury look slow

It will be interesting to see how he gels with Marbury as he is way more talented


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## ViciousFlogging (Sep 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>DaBullz</b>!
> Box score is in:
> 
> Crawford
> ...


If he'd done that for the Bulls more often, he might still be here (particularly the FTs). Otherwise, a pretty formulaic Jamal game.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Who won the ballgame? Does that matter anymore?


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

A formulaic Crawford game that is better then anyone on the Bulls. Knicks fan gave up crap and got a golden nugget for it. Knicks are going to be happy, this guy can do so much in a game of basketball. Be happy, I know I was when he was a Bull.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

it might be just a pre-season game

or it could be just another stupid trade


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>truth</b>!
> My first time really watching JC...
> 
> Are you guys CRAZY letting this kid go?????????????
> ...


Did the coach actually let him use his crossover in the game?


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

Well, he is not Kirk Hinrich that is for darn sure:whofarted


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Somehow Crawford was on the court while the Knicks virtually shut down the Nets for most of Q4. Were the Knicks playing 4-on-5 on defense? If so, they're going to be REAL tough when Crawford's not in the game.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

Jamal's line:

4-13, 3pt 3-7, 7 rebounds, 6 assists, 2 to, 19 pts.

Nice balanced line, really bad shooting. An OK start for Jamal.


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## cima (Nov 6, 2003)

Pre-season stats mean nothing. If I recall last year, KG and LeBron both averaged about 10 PPG each...


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

JC 4-13 fg 3-7 from 3pt. 8-8 ft. 7 reb. 6 assists 4 to 2st. 1 bl . 2 pf 19 points 36 min.

pike, fwill, cezary , griffin, wilks 2-11 fg 1-4 3pt 2-2 ft 4 reb. 5 assists 1 to. 2st. 0 bl. 9 pf 7 points 36 min.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>truth</b>!
> He makes Marbury look slow
> 
> It will be interesting to see how he gels with Marbury as he is way more talented


He's played the Knicks many times before. Theres a reason why you never really noticed him before.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

> Did the coach actually let him use his crossover in the game?



yes,in the 4th he was pretty much running the show..one instance he showed the killer x over, behind the back,thru the legs and had the whole knick bench up on their feet....he did miss the shot...

but he is unbelievably talented


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

^^^^I'm going to miss that.

We'll still lose by 20 but it won't be as entertaining.:no:


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>truth</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's odd. Your coach must not have much experience at the pro game.


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## MichaelOFAZ (Jul 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>The Great Twinkee</b>!
> People will hate on Crawford all this year on this Bulls forum, but the sad truth is he is better then any player on our team. And the trade he was in was garbage. We could of got Antonie Walker probaly if we traded JC and JYD. Crawford is going to make Paxson sorry, especially now that we have an even smaller future 2 guard.


Duh. That's what I've been saying all along.


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## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>happygrinch</b>!
> JC 4-13 fg 3-7 from 3pt. 8-8 ft. 7 reb. 6 assists 4 to 2st. 1 bl . 2 pf 19 points 36 min.
> 
> pike, fwill, cezary , griffin, wilks 2-11 fg 1-4 3pt 2-2 ft 4 reb. 5 assists 1 to. 2st. 0 bl. 9 pf 7 points 36 min.


I would hope an extra $50M could buy a little something.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>johnston797</b>!
> 
> 
> I would hope an extra $50M could buy a little something.


actually that group will make more than JC this season....i am pretty sure 7 years from now jc will still be more productive while probably only 1 or 2 will even be in the nba.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

Jesus. To me, it just seems ridiculous to have some "See, I told you so" mentality either way about Jamal after one preseason game. Nothing has been proven. Maybe it was a good move for the Bulls and maybe it was terrible. But to try to act like his preseason debut for the Knicks means anything is ridiculous. Time will tell, ok? Time will tell.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>jnrjr79</b>!
> Jesus. To me, it just seems ridiculous to have some "See, I told you so" mentality either way about Jamal after one preseason game. Nothing has been proven. Maybe it was a good move for the Bulls and maybe it was terrible. But to try to act like his preseason debut for the Knicks means anything is ridiculous. Time will tell, ok? Time will tell.


i've been saying its a bad deal all summer ...where have you been?
the sad part isn't crawford outproducing 5 players he was basically traded for in a single game.

the sad part is that it shouldn't be an anomaly , it should happen fairly often.


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## bullet (Jul 1, 2003)

mmmm....

4-13

as I recall thats exactly the reason I wanted him out of Chicago(though I prefered the sign him now trade him next year - for Value purposes).Typical Jamal game.

*30 % fg* 

we need a different scorer , He makes Toine look like he's taking great shots.


Ariza had a good active game?!


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## lorgg (Dec 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Darius Miles Davis</b>!
> Jamal's line:
> 
> 4-13, 3pt 3-7, 7 rebounds, 6 assists, 2 to, 19 pts.
> ...



I wonder if the tougher officiating will help soft Jamal. I'm sure it did this game...8-8 from the line.


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## Crawscrew (Jul 15, 2002)

The only thing I look at...19 pts on 13 shots. I don't care about %, that will come along. Crawford will shoot over 40% this year, allbeit with a lot less shots. In the end the trade will help Us and the Knicks. We get cap room, the Knicks get one helluva talent, whether they can turn that talent into something special remains to be seen, but we all know the potential is there.


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## Chi_Lunatic (Aug 20, 2002)

cap room for WHAT? to sign curry and chandler's bum a****

nobody gonna wanna play for this team...


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Crawscrew</b>!
> The only thing I look at...19 pts on 13 shots. I don't care about %, that will come along. Crawford will shoot over 40% this year, allbeit with a lot less shots. In the end the trade will help Us and the Knicks. *We get cap room*, the Knicks get one helluva talent, whether they can turn that talent into something special remains to be seen, but we all know the potential is there.


Still drinking the Kool Aid, eh...did you not learn anything from the last time the Bulls had cap room? WHo do you plan on signing? Any player worth having will be extended or matched, only other way to get someone worth havingis to over pay (see Boozer, K Mart). So if you are going to overpay anyway, you should have done it with JC 
*and let him grow and mature as a player.*


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## Chi_Lunatic (Aug 20, 2002)

*NY Daily : Crawford..I Am Right For The Knicks*

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/story/242414p-207846c.html

At 6-5 and 190 pounds, Crawford can play either guard position. Cartwright is convinced that Crawford can eventually play small forward as well. But for now, Crawford gives the Knicks another ball-handler and passer in the backcourt, which will free Marbury to occasionally play shooting guard.


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## Chi_Lunatic (Aug 20, 2002)

[email protected] @ SF

I'm glad he's shining though, always knew he would away from a team that didn't believe in his abilities.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

he is too little to play sf right now.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

sf seems a ridiculous stretch. Crawford had a super game last night, he really spurred the win on and the Knicks fell behind when he was out. He played solid defense and kept Mercer & Buford in check. He blocked one of Buford's shots forcing a 24 second violation and he had a couple of steals. His line was:

19pts, 7rebs, 6ast, 1blk, 2stls, 4 to's

A little high on T/o's but his defense was solid. I sure hate seeing him in a different uniform. We are going to regret letting him go. Jamal wasn't just the best player in a KNick uniform last night....he was the best player on the floor period...


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## Philo (Feb 13, 2003)

People will play if the money is on the table. Greed is very powerful, more so than winning or loyalty. Crawford will fit in well in NY, as he is much more suited to the #4 or #5 scorer's role.


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## Chi_Lunatic (Aug 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ace20004u</b>!
> 
> I sure hate seeing him in a different uniform. We are going to regret letting him go. Jamal wasn't just the best player in a KNick uniform last night....he was the best player on the floor period...


Yep,

I'm convinced the bulls will SUCK until Jerry West becomes our GM and the MALOOF's take over ownership.


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## Philo (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>MemphisX</b>!
> 
> 
> Still drinking the Kool Aid, eh...did you not learn anything from the last time the Bulls had cap room? WHo do you plan on signing? Any player worth having will be extended or matched, only other way to get someone worth havingis to over pay (see Boozer, K Mart). So if you are going to overpay anyway, you should have done it with JC
> *and let him grow and mature as a player.*


Chicago is huge market, with tons of money-making opportunities, and last time was an abberation, as not a sole wanted to play in MJ's shadow. Time's are changing, players will sign in Chicago, and overpaying on Jamal would have been terrible for this team. But in the end, why do you care?


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

Crawford played extremely well. His defense was better, he drove to the basket about 3 times, getting to the line twice on those drives. He made 3 3pt shots, he rimmed one in and out after a dribbling exposition that totally shook his man (he ALMOST made it it was in and out). Jamal did a nice job feeding interior players and controlling the tempo of the game. He did shoot 4-13 but I know a couple of those were long bail out shots. In any case, good performance for Jamal. It is only one preseason game but the Bulls clearly made a mistake not resigning Jamal and it becomes clearer and clearer each passing day.


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## Chi_Lunatic (Aug 20, 2002)

I'm glad they didn't resign him, and that he didn'reSIGN with the team. With skiles and pax he would of either been buried on the bench or in the doghouse all year. Isaiah will give him a chance. He'll be an an allstar in 2 years, maybe even this year.


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## Kismet (Mar 1, 2003)

Any chance we can sticky one single Crawford thread for people to post to all season long? "The Official Jamal Crawford, News, Editorial and Opinion Thread." Then if someone starts additional threads they can be merged into this all-encompassing JC thread.

Mods?


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## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

The hell with Crawford. He's a Knick, a horribly overpaid knick, and I wish nothing but ill will on him and his team.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Kismet</b>!
> Any chance we can sticky one single Crawford thread for people to post to all season long? "The Official Jamal Crawford, News, Editorial and Opinion Thread." Then if someone starts additional threads they can be merged into this all-encompassing JC thread.
> 
> Mods?


I'm inclined to let people make the threads they want to.

People are interested in our ex-players. They developed a following after being on the Bulls for (in this case) 4 years.


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## PC Load Letter (Jun 29, 2002)

Just curious, but why is a thread about a Knick stickied in a Bulls forum? Yes, I know, it's about Jamal and I know it's still a shock to some people (including myself) that he's playing somewhere else now. Having said that, this thread should not be stickied. No offense to the person who did it, but I think it's quite lame and is just going to promote what is already stale discussion.

He's not a Bull anymore, like it or not. Let's move on!


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>PC Load Letter</b>!
> Just curious, but why is a thread about a Knick stickied in a Bulls forum? Yes, I know, it's about Jamal and I know it's still a shock to some people that that's the case. Having said that, in theory, this thread should not be stickied. No offense to the person who did it, but I personally think it's lame.
> 
> He's not a Bull anymore, like it or not. Let's move on!


Kismet requested that we have a stickied thread for folks who want to talk about Jamal's progress throughout the season. I complied and stickied it. I don't see a big problem with it myself...


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>ace20004u</b>!
> 
> 
> Kismet requested that we have a stickied thread for folks who want to talk about Jamal's progress throughout the season. I complied and stickied it. I don't see a big problem with it myself...


he did? wow. that kinda surprises me.

_i think it should be unstickied._

if folks want to talk about jamal crawfords progress during the season then they can and should propulate the knick forum. which i am guessing doesn't get nearly the love this forum gets. share the wealth!

so i am appealing to someone of a slightly higher authority to move this over there. BCH? anyone?

yes, jamal did have a decent game. i watched it. but it was nothing like an all-star performance. it was the first preseason game. 

but like the YES network announcers said there's going to be a lot of "entertaining basketball at the garden this year"...so entertain yourselves and move this on over to the knick page...

...and let the trickery begin!!

nothing to see here folks, let's all move along.


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## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

I dont remember, but when MJ was in Washington was there a thread stickied about him and how he was doing?


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

I don't know why anyone would have a problem with a stickied thread about one of our ex-players...whether it be MJ, Jamal, whomever. If you don't have any interest in the thread....don't read it! problem solved. No need to turn it into a congressional debate.


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## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

Was there a stickied thread about MJ?


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## BealeFarange (May 22, 2004)

With as much as the Bulls are going to give us to talk about this year (*cough*), I'm happy to see a stickied Jamal thread. It will keep the rest of the forum free for Bulls talk and keep the INEVITABLE Jamal talk in one, easy-to-reach place. 

I am so going to miss those flashes in fourth quarters when Jamal carries the team and has his teammates standing...

Sure, they were few and far between...but they were magic. If he miraculously harnesses THAT, whatever THAT is when he's in that mode, he is going to be special. 

I've hated this trade from day one, though I understand why it was made. Trading for Antoine would have been much worse because it would be a downgrade in player (arguably) and an increase in pay.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Shinky</b>!
> Was there a stickied thread about MJ?


I honestly have no idea.


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## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

IMO, it's like giving props to another team. And I think that is wrong, especially when that team is the freaking KNICKS! :upset:


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## BealeFarange (May 22, 2004)

Oh, and isn't it kinda sad to see Knicks fans so giddy?

Like how we were at the end of the 2002/3 season...?


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Kismet</b>!
> Any chance we can sticky one single Crawford thread for people to post to all season long? "The Official Jamal Crawford, News, Editorial and Opinion Thread." Then if someone starts additional threads they can be merged into this all-encompassing JC thread.
> 
> Mods?


reallllllly bad idea.

i already said why up there in the stickied thread.

we need to move on. 

jamal had a good game - but don't let ace's platitudes fool you - he was just OK on defense and i didn't notice that he moved very well without the ball. still. he went real cold at one point and the shots were very ill-advised. kinda a typical crawford outing if you ask me.

of course he will get attention early in the season because of the trade. but a stickied thread is just stupid, imo.

oh, and the junkyard dog, while he looked pretty smashing in his neon orange headband, looked just like the dog to me. are we going to have a stickied thread about him too?


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## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>ace20004u</b>!
> 
> 
> I honestly have no idea.


Well, if there wasn't one for MJ, there should be no way in HELL we have one on JC.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Shinky</b>!
> IMO, it's like giving props to another team. And I think that is wrong, especially when that team is the freaking KNICKS! :upset:


I don't see it that way. It's not a "go Knicks" thread as much as a "this is what our former Bull is doing in a Knicks uniform" thread.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>mizenkay</b>!
> 
> 
> reallllllly bad idea.
> ...


Half the board will say it is stupid half genius. The simple answer is if you don't want to check out the stickied thread....don't. I don't see what is so confusing about that.

So I guess you saw Crawford block Buford to force the 24 second violation? You saw Crawford steal the ball twice? You saw Crawford hold Mercer & Buford down? I don't see how his defense wasn't good last night unless you just dislike him....


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## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>ace20004u</b>!
> 
> 
> I don't see it that way. It's not a "go Knicks" thread as much as a "this is what our former Bull is doing in a Knicks uniform" thread.


It leads to Bull bashing, ACE. Not that I worry about Jamal proving me or Paxson wrong, THAT is not going to happen.


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## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

Put it up to a vote.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Shinky</b>!
> 
> 
> It leads to Bull bashing, ACE. Not that I worry about Jamal proving me or Paxson wrong, THAT is not going to happen.


I'm pretty sure it will. And I don't see how following our former player leads to "Bulls bashing". If anything, the Bulls will be bashed by their own merits. In any case, if you don't like the stickied thread we have hundreds of other threads your welcome to visit and ignore this one...


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## BealeFarange (May 22, 2004)

My god, guys...like Ace said...if you don't want to read the thread, DON'T read it!

You'll complain ten times as much if EVERY thread is FILLED with Jamal talk. It'll be a good thing to have it almost all in one "out of the way" place. 

When Gordon struggles, we'll talk Jamal. 
When Pike struggles, we'll really talk Jamal. 
When Mutumbo has a big game, we'll talk Jamal.
When we're 10-32,we'll talk Jamal. 

That's just how it is. I wish the Bulls could survive a loss like that and be a good, interesting, competitive team. But unless they really surprise, that's just not going to happen. 

It doesn't matter if we had an MJ thread or not. Hell, we could get MJ updates from ESPN.COM's special MJ Update webpage. We could get MJ updates from CBS nightly news, for god's sake. Jamal will not be NATIONAL news and we need a place to discuss him. It's only natural.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Shinky</b>!
> Put it up to a vote.


put simply.. No. I stickied this at Kismets request and I feel comfortable that I have the support of the mod community here in doing so. If you don't like a thread you don't have to even look at it. It's a no brainer. If someone doesn't want to see anything about Jamal they should simply avoid this thread and everyone's happy.


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>ace20004u</b>!
> 
> 
> Half the board will say it is stupid half genius. The simple answer is if you don't want to check out the stickied thread....don't. I don't see what is so confusing about that.
> ...


ha. ok. ya got me. i dislike him. that, and he is no longer a bull. but fine, go have your love fest at the top of the page. 

:grinning:


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

if it make you guys feel any better,i will start a Deke,trybanski,fwiilliams Bid O "how you doing" post in the knicks forum:grinning: 


from one game,i could see exactly yhe dilemna with JC..He is so unbelievably talented,but he does need some restraint...

Also it was clear he needs run jump athletes to play with..


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>truth</b>!
> if it make you guys feel any better,i will start a Deke,trybanski,fwiilliams Bid O "how you doing" post in the knicks forum:grinning:
> 
> 
> ...


"Unbelievably talented" and "Chicago Bulls" don't belong in the same sentence anymore.


----------



## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

Go to the ****ing Knick board and read about Jamal.


----------



## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Kismet</b>!
> Any chance we can sticky one single Crawford thread for people to post to all season long? "The Official Jamal Crawford, News, Editorial and Opinion Thread." Then if someone starts additional threads they can be merged into this all-encompassing JC thread.
> 
> Mods?


Why stop there? Let's just make one thread entitled "I'm Mad as Hell, I Have No Desire Whatsoever to Toe an Incompetent Company Line, and I Hate Kool-Aid" and leave the rest of the board free for updates on how much Skiles and Paxson like the cuts of their grinders' jibs, the Adrian Griffin saga, gardening tips with Eric Piatkowski, and "Benny the Bull -- The Case for Natural Fibers that Breathe."

Sorry, Kismet. Trying to quash Jamal Crawford discussion in a year where we're going to get killed at the two every night, and when he could have been retained with no consequence to anything other than how deeply lined ownerships' pockets get, is absurd. 

The Bulls have the worst six-year-record in the history of the NBA. I think anything and everything is fair game, even ad nauseum.


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## PC Load Letter (Jun 29, 2002)

:laugh: Wow, I had no idea my post would start such a fracas!

Wait, yes I did. Carry on! :grinning:


----------



## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Kismet</b>!
> Any chance we can sticky one single Crawford thread for people to post to all season long? "The Official Jamal Crawford, News, Editorial and Opinion Thread." Then if someone starts additional threads they can be merged into this all-encompassing JC thread.
> 
> Mods?


per kismet's suggestion, then, this very thread should be MERGED with the love/hate festival at the top of the page, no?


----------



## BealeFarange (May 22, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Shinky</b>!
> Go to the ****ing Knick board and read about Jamal.


Gee, how do you _really_ feel?


----------



## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>mizenkay</b>!
> 
> 
> per kismet's suggestion, then, this very thread should be MERGED with the love/hate festival at the top of the page, no?



l'll do that.


----------



## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Shinky</b>!
> Go to the ****ing Knick board and read about Jamal.


Let me guess, Shinky: you're the managing editor of the Bulls' yearbooks, media guide, and programs, and that's why there's basically no mention of Michael Jordan in any of those things, except for his prominence on the statistics and records pages?

How in the world do you expect us to get through the year without any discussion of Jamal when our two guards are Eric Piatkowski, Adrian Griffin, and Ben Gordon, who is really learning a new position (playing the 2 at 6-1 in the Big East isn't really comparable to playing the 2 in the association)? 

I don't like Jamal as a long-term fit in NY and I didn't like him as a long-term fit here. But he is going to have some big games this year, and we are going to have 82 games where we could have used more from our 2 guard than what our motley collection of 2 guards is actually going to give us.

I would actually be excited for this upcoming season if Crawford were still here. We'd be a better defensive team, we'd be a much better offensive team, Gordon would stand of chance of getting through the year without having his psyche destroyed and manhood questioned, and then there'd always be the tantalizing prospect of what we could get for Jamal in a trade once his base year expired, assuming a Gordon-Hinrich backcourt works.

I am going to be banging the "what'd Jamal do?" drum all season long because it's just another example of how horribly and cheaply run this basketball team is.


----------



## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>ace20004u</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> l'll do that.


thank you very much.




edit: i am ok with the sticky idea now as long as it is in one place, but who listens to me anyway.

carry on.

oh, and GO BULLS! sheesh.


----------



## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>ScottMay</b>!
> 
> 
> Let me guess, Shinky: you're the managing editor of the Bulls' yearbooks, media guide, and programs, and that's why there's basically no mention of Michael Jordan in any of those things, except for his prominence on the statistics and records pages?
> ...


This basketball team, this LOSING basketball team, has been over the damn cap for MANY YEARS NOW. We had Jamal here, where the hell did THAT get us? Nowhere at all.


----------



## Kismet (Mar 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>ScottMay</b>!
> 
> 
> Why stop there? Let's just make one thread entitled "I'm Mad as Hell, I Have No Desire Whatsoever to Toe an Incompetent Company Line, and I Hate Kool-Aid" and leave the rest of the board free for updates on how much Skiles and Paxson like the cuts of their grinders' jibs, the Adrian Griffin saga, gardening tips with Eric Piatkowski, and "Benny the Bull -- The Case for Natural Fibers that Breathe."
> ...


Quash it? How am I quashing anything by suggesting JC have his very own permanent thread? Oh, I get it now. You're not really interested in following Jamal's career because you're a fan. You really want to use him as a vehicle for repeating your criticisms of Bulls management all season long. Right or wrong?

And lets try to keep something in mind. While Jamal was an important if not controversial member of the Bulls for 4 years, he's not on the Bulls anymore. Lets move on. The sticky thread is an acknowledgement of the passion, pro and con, that JC evoked among Bulls fans for four seasons. Everyone I think agrees that his name won't be erased from Bulls fans' minds for some time. So lets acknowledge his impact on Bulls history and move on.


----------



## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Shinky</b>!
> 
> 
> This basketball team, this LOSING basketball team, has been over the damn cap for MANY YEARS NOW. We had Jamal here, where the hell did THAT get us? Nowhere at all.


And was that all Jamal or perhaps the players the orginization put around him? Just a thought....


----------



## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Shinky</b>!
> 
> 
> This basketball team, this LOSING basketball team, has been over the damn cap for MANY YEARS NOW. We had Jamal here, where the hell did THAT get us? Nowhere at all.


So you're on board with management, then: the only player we'll be willing to retain is one who has a huge impact right out of the gate, someone like Shaq, Jordan, Duncan, etc. If it takes ten, twenty, or a hundred years to land a player like that, so be it. If in the interim the rest of the league gets to use the Bulls as a punching bag, that's just fine as long as the players "give it their all."

P.S. Being over the salary cap is meaningless: player payroll is a mainly fixed expense that no NBA team can get around spending. Look instead at our player payroll vs. revenues and look at our non player-payroll expenses like coaching and staff to see what I'm getting at.


----------



## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>ace20004u</b>!
> 
> 
> And was that all Jamal or perhaps the players the orginization put around him? Just a thought....


It had quite a bit to do with Jamal. But of course, fat Eddy and Skinny Ty had much to do with it as well.


----------



## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

I just get the impression that many here, especially posting in this thread, would rather the Bulls fail than see Pax and Skiles and our team succeed. Maybe I am wrong, but this is the impression I get.


----------



## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Kismet</b>!
> 
> 
> Quash it? How am I quashing anything by suggesting JC have his very own permanent thread? Oh, I get it now. You're not really interested in following Jamal's career because you're a fan. You really want to use him as a vehicle for repeating your criticisms of Bulls management all season long. Right or wrong?
> ...


If you follow this logic to its simple extension, we should make a sticky thread for all the kool-aid induced rah rah pro-Skiles or pro-Paxson threads and merge them all together.

Or is a new day's news a new day's news?


----------



## Nobull1 (Oct 6, 2002)

No Shink most people are just disgusted and refuse to drink kool-aid any longer. Still if that is what gets you through the dad bottoms up.


----------



## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Kismet</b>!
> 
> 
> Quash it? How am I quashing anything by suggesting JC have his very own permanent thread? Oh, I get it now. You're not really interested in following Jamal's career because you're a fan. You really want to use him as a vehicle for repeating your criticisms of Bulls management all season long. Right or wrong?


Absolutely right, Kismet! While I wish Jamal nothing but the best, I guess I never really liked the cut of the young man's jib, just like Paxson and Skiles.

However, that's not relevant here. Paxson and Skiles and Chairman Reinsdorf let Jamal go with nothing even resembling a suitable replacement for him, let alone an upgrade (which, given their constant criticism of Jamal, you'd think they'd have had no problem finding).



> And lets try to keep something in mind. While Jamal was an important if not controversial member of the Bulls for 4 years, he's not on the Bulls anymore. Lets move on. The sticky thread is an acknowledgement of the passion, pro and con, that JC evoked among Bulls fans for four seasons. Everyone I think agrees that his name won't be erased from Bulls fans' minds for some time. So lets acknowledge his impact on Bulls history and move on.


That just smacks of Ashcroft-ism, and if it's the case, why not propose Elton Brand, Ron Artest, Brad Miller, Jake Voskhul, etc. stickied threads?

The Bulls have a huge hole at the two guard (and, according to our training camp communiques, not even a real backup one).

The Bulls let a perfectly capable two guard go to another team for no reason other than it would have cost ownership money.

Expect to see tons and tons of "did you see Jamal tonight" and "we could have used Jamal tonight," "we might not have gone 2-12 in December" and "Is Ben Gordon on the injured list for physical or mental reasons?" threads this year. That's just how it goes.


----------



## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Shinky</b>!
> I just get the impression that many here, especially posting in this thread, would rather the Bulls fail than see Pax and Skiles and our team succeed. Maybe I am wrong, but this is the impression I get.


I want nothing more than for the Bulls to succeed -- ask my wife and friends, who think I am insane for supporting such a lost cause.

I am equally convinced -- barring our stumbling onto a Duncan, Shaq, or Jordan-type player -- that there is no hope of a meaningful turnaround along as Paxson, Skiles, and, most importantly, Chairman Reinsdorf are calling the shots.


----------



## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Nobull1</b>!
> No Shink most people are just disgusted and refuse to drink kool-aid any longer. Still if that is what gets you through the dad bottoms up.


I am not drinking kool-aid. Look at what this team has accomplished alread under Pax and Skiles. Curry is in the best shape of his life, as is Tyson. And that is a direct reflection on Skiles and Pax's demands made to this team in the offseason. 

This is a good thing. We all just need to relax a bit, it was only the first pre-season game.


----------



## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ScottMay</b>!
> 
> That just smacks of Ashcroft-ism, and if it's the case, why not propose Elton Brand, Ron Artest, Brad Miller, Jake Voskhul, etc. stickied threads?


You don't know how close I came to making those stickied threads.


----------



## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Shinky</b>!
> I just get the impression that many here, especially posting in this thread, would rather the Bulls fail than see Pax and Skiles and our team succeed. Maybe I am wrong, but this is the impression I get.


Hey, I want the Bulls to suceed more than anything, my only concern is that they won't and will regret letting Jamal go. But I'm still hoping for a good season...I'm just not optimistic.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Kismet</b>!
> You really want to use him as a vehicle for repeating your criticisms of Bulls management all season long. Right or wrong?




For me at least...its right.

This management DESERVES to be hammered on every occasion their decisions show incompetence.

Every time. All season long.


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

Hmmph. I'm not a huge fan of Jamal and unlike Ace who stalked the poor kid while he was shooting hoops in his driveway, I must say... JC would have a nice place on this team. We know he can score, in the least. Its almost as if we replaced our glaring hole of SF in 2003 with a glaring hole of SG in 2004. :uhoh: 

Kirk/JC/Nocioni/TC/Curry
with Ben/Luol/JYD/AD

Gosh. That first lineup would really be able to light up the scoreboard on some nights. I'm really second guessing this summer's moves with Pax. Somebody... anybody... please tell me there's a light at the end of the tunnel.

 

JC will blow up in NY this year. Too much talent surrounding him not to.


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## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

Difference between Skiles and Wilkens :

"I just want him to be smart and take good shots," Wilkens said. "He took a couple of bad shots and I let him know it because he's that good that you don't need those kind of shots. No one does when you're playing well."

ok. not much difference. Skiles was always on him

Crawford; Asked about some of his off-balance shots, he said, "When you're excited, things happen. [Wilkens] is going to stay on me, and I want him to stay on me."

:| 

guess he'll continue taking those crazy shots. but in the long line of "oh man, he was once a bull" players


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Dabullz has been hilarious in this thread. I hope you guys are appreciating the wit he's coming with in this thread. No one is really commenting on it. But it's cracking me up.


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

ok, i'll play along for another post. here is his "review" from the New York Times today.


http://nytimes.com/2004/10/15/sports/basketball/15knicks.html 

oh and kukoc4ever i think you need help! :| 







> At 190 pounds, and generously listed at 6-foot-5, Crawford looks waifish next to the league's beefier shooting guards. And he has the ball-handling skills to play the point, so the temptation to make the move was understandable.
> 
> "It's weird, because I honestly think I can do both equally well,'' Crawford said.
> 
> ...


_plus ca change plus c'est le meme chose. _


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>mizenkay</b>!
> 
> oh and kukoc4ever i think you need help! :|


haha

duh!


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

*these parts of the article are good as well*



> The only thing that was immediately clear, as the Knicks beat the Nets in their preseason opener, 92-84, at Wachovia Arena, was that Crawford had already, undeniably changed the Knicks' persona.
> 
> They are more athletic, more hyperactive, and at first glance, substantially more entertaining.
> 
> ...





> That's fine with Hardaway, who grows more impressed with Crawford by the day.
> 
> "He has a lot of game,'' Hardaway said. "And it still hasn't been brought out yet.''


----------



## PC Load Letter (Jun 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>kukoc4ever</b>!
> 
> For me at least...its right.
> 
> ...


It's good to know you'll be "hammering them" all season long from those expensive seats you renewed a few months ago.  

*"Organization deserves to be hammered on every occasion" ---> Renew your season tickets* 
:whoknows:

Way to fight the power...


----------



## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Shinky</b>!
> 
> 
> I am not drinking kool-aid. Look at what this team has accomplished alread under Pax and Skiles. Curry is in the best shape of his life, as is Tyson. And that is a direct reflection on Skiles and Pax's demands made to this team in the offseason.
> ...


----------



## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>PC Load Letter</b>!
> 
> 
> It's good to know you'll be "hammering them" all season long from those expensive seats you renewed a few months ago.
> ...



Haha... Shiet man... no need to make this personal! 

FYI, the 30% deposit was due BEFORE the Crawford trade. I thought we would get more than NOTHING for him. If that trade was made before the deposit date... I would not have renewed.

I've sold off almost all the seats... very little $$$ out of my pocket... not that it really matters!


----------



## PC Load Letter (Jun 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>kukoc4ever</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Nothing personal. It's just so fun sometimes to remind Bulls season ticket holders that they're, um, _BULLS SEASON TICKET HOLDERS_. :whofarted


----------



## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>PC Load Letter</b>!
> 
> 
> Nothing personal. It's just so fun sometimes to remind Bulls season ticket holders that they're, um, _BULLS SEASON TICKET HOLDERS_. :whofarted


is that like telling republicans that they cant say anything bad about bush because they voted for him the 1st time?


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>mizenkay</b>!
> 
> _plus ca change plus c'est le meme chose. _



est comme cela devait être


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

> That's fine with Hardaway, who grows more impressed with Crawford by the day.
> 
> "He has a lot of game,'' Hardaway said. "And it still hasn't been brought out yet.''


Thats always been true.

It's also been true of a lot of guards and centers that have come and gone in the league...like Isaiah Rider Stanley Roberts, and Eddie Griffin.

What seperates a lot of physical talent from sucess is often buried in a players past, his basketball pedigree, and also his character.

His current environment too.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

Crawford will do better then expected in NYC. And at the end of the day, the egg will be on the faces of the many people who bashed Jamal or didnt utilize his skills.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>GB</b>!
> 
> 
> Thats always been true.
> ...




Its stunning that you would mention those two players.

Yeah... players with severe emotional, drug or criminal problems tend to struggle.

I don't know what those guys have to do with Crawford.

Anyway... we will see this season if Crawford can be a key contributor on a playoff team. We'll know in a few months.


----------



## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>kukoc4ever</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The only question with Jamal on the Knicks is how much will he be in the creator role. With the Bulls last year, Hinrich had the ball most of the time and Jamal was basically useless for stretches, a jump shooter either forced to take bad shots, or forcing bad shots on his own accord. The year before when he was the primary handler (notice I didnt say PG), he was tremendous to the year. He was easily the best guard the Bulls have had since Jordan, Hinrich included. Will Marbury give up the ball and allow Jamal to create? Thats the only question. But the media reports out of NY are very positive. And NY is not an easy place to impress


----------



## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

The real issue in NYC is not Jamal..Its can Marbury co-exist with JC...From one game,it was clear that JC is supremely talented,charismatic and the Knick fans will LOVE him...And obviously the advertising endorsements will not be far behind...

Just out of curiousity is he charasmatic off the court as well??


----------



## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>kukoc4ever</b>!
> 
> I don't know what those guys have to do with Crawford.
> 
> .


Just what I said...guys with a lot of talent don't often make it because of what is "buried in a players past, his basketball pedigree, and also his character."


----------



## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>GB</b>!
> 
> 
> Just what I said...guys with a lot of talent don't often make it because of what is "buried in a players past, his basketball pedigree, and also his character."


And I'll state again.. i don't see what that has to do with Crawford.


----------



## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

Just like everyone is saying we shouldn't panic over one trainwreck game, we shouldn't start playing woulda coulda shoulda about Jamal just because he looked good in his first game as a Knick.

Remember, Pargo came out the first night he was signed and dropped a career high 36 points on a night when he could not be stopped.

He could not maintain that momentum long term.


Time will tell how JCraw meshes with the Knickerbockers.

NOTE: I'm not saying Crawford is on par with Pargo -- just saying, like Pargo, Jamal was pumped up playing on a new team, with a fresh start. We'll have to watch if he can keep up the intensity and enthusiam.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>kukoc4ever</b>!
> 
> 
> And I'll state again.. i don't see what that has to do with Crawford.


1. He'd be a better player with a better basketball pedigree. It's true of a lot of players...it's true of Jamal.

2. He'd be a better player with a different personality. Again, true of a lot of players, true of Jamal.

3. He'd be a better player if he'd played organized basketball earlier in his career. True or a handful of players, true of Jamal.


----------



## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>GB</b>!
> 
> 
> 2. He'd be a better player with a different personality. Again, true of a lot of players, true of Jamal.


What is wrong with Crawford's personality?


----------



## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>kukoc4ever</b>!
> 
> 
> What is wrong with Crawford's personality?


He's not a killer like MJ was.


----------



## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>GB</b>!
> 
> 
> He's not a killer like MJ was.


Ah. He's not like MJ. OK!


----------



## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>kukoc4ever</b>!
> 
> 
> Ah. He's not like MJ. OK!


Even you'd have to admit that Jamal has 1/10 of the competitive spirit MJ had.

Such a spirit would do him very well.


----------



## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>GB</b>!
> 
> 
> Even you'd have to admit that Jamal has 1/10 of the competitive spirit MJ had.
> ...


I don't know about the 1/10..... but he's not as competitive as MJ, I agree.

I'd have a hard time thinking of anyone as competitive as MJ.

Crawford has a certain "softness" to him... although I do think he almost always plays hard. Jordan was not a killer on D early on either.


----------



## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>kukoc4ever</b>!
> 
> I'd have a hard time thinking of anyone as competitive as MJ.


KG

also, but less:

T-Mac...when he's interested.

Kobe

Wallace...when irritated


----------



## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>GB</b>!
> 
> 
> KG
> ...


HAHA ... OK fine. I don't want to argue about this.

The point is that you are saying that Crawford is not as competitive as the most competitive. Is that a sin?

Shouldn't Hinrich be on this list!


----------



## Clutch (Jun 2, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Chi_Lunatic</b>!
> We traded Jamal Crawford & Jerome Williams for Eric Piatkowski, Othella Harrington & Frank Williams?
> 
> *Vomits*


 LOL I felt the same way. RIP jamal.


----------



## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!But the media reports out of NY are very positive.


Well, to me, they look like the Chicago media reports.

Not sure if he is a 1 or a 2. Very talented. Doesn't know how to play yet. Will be very good to excellent if he puts it all together.

No change there.


----------



## Wynn (Jun 3, 2002)

> *Jamal vs. Nets*
> 36min 4-13 shooting 7rbs 6ast 4to 19pts
> 
> *Nocioni vs. Hornets*
> ...


I'm only putting this comparison on this thread to show how silly it is to base an evaluation of this summer's activity on one game. Frankly, though, each of our rookies have proven that they can shoot just as poorly as Jamal! Interestingly, for all of Jamal's vaunted passing ability, our rooks are controlling the ball better than he is.

Is it fair to compare them all based on one game? No! Yet when our kids have a horrible game and Jamal sports a decent one, we get a 10 page lament about losing Jamal. Let's check back in around Christmas and post our feelings then.

Peace!


----------



## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

Guys,i am watching JC for the second time against the Knicks...He has SICK SICK talent,and you can see he is buying into whatever it is that Zeke preaches.....

When he doesnt force the issue,and he doesnt when Marbury is on the floor,he is awesome..Interestingly when he runs the show with the second unit,his game is more sizzle than steak....


----------



## elias03 (Nov 8, 2003)

Crawford is lighting it up in the garden 9-11 for 22 points in 22 minutes


----------



## elias03 (Nov 8, 2003)

10-12 25 points


----------



## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>kukoc4ever</b>!
> 
> The point is that you are saying that Crawford is not as competitive as the most competitive.


No...I'm saying he's not even competitive. The most competitive was an aside, an answer to a question you asked.



> Is that a sin?


With his talent and on-court responsabilities...yes.

He more often seems to be playing against the reputation that people have given him. And with the criticism he recieved in the Bulls organization--that could be understandable.

He has a chance to outgrow it.



> Shouldn't Hinrich be on this list!


Nope.


----------



## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

25 min.
10-12 - FG
3-3 - 3PT
2-3 - FT
0 - RB
2 A
2 TO
0 ST
25 PTS

jamal's line. a great shooting outing. garden fans loved it (and you can tell jamal is feeling the love).
heck, he even successfully drove to the hole and the knicks announcers said :

"wow for a skinny guy he's not afraid to bang it up with the bigger players"

:|


----------



## ViciousFlogging (Sep 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>mizenkay</b>!
> 25 min.
> 10-12 - FG
> 3-3 - 3PT
> ...


ruh-roh! :verysad:


----------



## Philo (Feb 13, 2003)

Stop worrying about Jamal Crawford. He's history, and it's time to move on.


----------



## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

Props. He had another really nice game. Wish he could have put it all out like he did today when he played for us. 

The announcers were right -- his fear of contact seems to be gone. I'm glad he's gone, because I have no doubt that the player at MSG today would never, never have shown up at the United Center in a Bulls uniform. Hope he takes the new beginning and runs with it.


----------



## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>TomBoerwinkle#1</b>!
> the player at MSG today would never, never have shown up at the United Center in a Bulls uniform. Hope he takes the new beginning and runs with it.


Yep, yep.


----------



## Chi_Lunatic (Aug 20, 2002)

10-12 from the field? NICE

Jamal may very well wind up being the best player in a NY uniform this year (next to marbury) that is.


----------



## ViciousFlogging (Sep 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>TomBoerwinkle#1</b>!
> Props. He had another really nice game. Wish he could have put it all out like he did today when he played for us.
> 
> The announcers were right -- his fear of contact seems to be gone. I'm glad he's gone, because I have no doubt that the player at MSG today would never, never have shown up at the United Center in a Bulls uniform. Hope he takes the new beginning and runs with it.


Perhaps he was saving himself for a brighter day when he was on a winning team, where putting his body on the line might actually be the difference between a win and a loss instead of the difference between losing by 18 and 16.

Can't really blame him, though it is kind of disappointing.


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## Dan Rosenbaum (Jun 3, 2002)

Crawford had an excellent second game.

He is now averaging 28.9 points per 40 minutes on a phenomenal 73.7 percent effective field goal shooting. Per 40 minutes, he is also averaging 4.6 rebounds, 5,2 assists, 3.9 turnovers, 2.0 steals, and 0.7 blocks.

It is very early, but that is a darn good start.

(61 44 25 11 7 8 6 3 1)


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## bullet (Jul 1, 2003)

wer'e waisting to much energy on this


look for Jamal updates here 

:|


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>ViciousFlogging</b>!
> 
> 
> Perhaps he was saving himself for a brighter day when he was on a winning team, where putting his body on the line might actually be the difference between a win and a loss instead of the difference between losing by 18 and 16.
> ...


a team that paid him a boatload of money. 

at the end of the game they had a shot of jamal getting a bear hug from knicks owner james dolan, who i swear had _tears_ in his eyes. huge smile. high fives all around. 

it was a beautiful moment. :|


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## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

Although we don't need further proof, but its good to see JC showing what an idiot our GM is.


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## Mr. T (Jan 29, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>happygrinch</b>!
> 
> the sad part isn't crawford outproducing 5 players he was basically traded for in a single game.
> 
> the sad part is that it shouldn't be an anomaly , it should happen fairly often.


No, the sad part is some folks can't move on.


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## Mr. T (Jan 29, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Dan Rosenbaum</b>!
> Crawford had an excellent second game.
> 
> He is now averaging 28.9 points per 40 minutes on a phenomenal 73.7 percent effective field goal shooting. Per 40 minutes, he is also averaging 4.6 rebounds, 5,2 assists, 3.9 turnovers, 2.0 steals, and 0.7 blocks.
> ...


Sheesh, almost makes me wonder why he settled for less than a max contract. :uhoh:


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## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>No Excuses; No Vision</b>!
> 
> 
> No, the sad part is some folks can't move on.


Why should we move on? We trade our best player for nothing! NOTHING! What REALLY is sad is that there are a lot of Bulls fans who are not bothered abt this! Y? Cuz they got some personal issues against JC. God knows y but there were a lot of haters in here who were in favor of the trade. And that DESPITE KNOWING we were going to get GARBAGE in return.


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## Chi_Lunatic (Aug 20, 2002)

it ain't about moving on, it's about givin props where props is due. we all knew he'd shine when he left here. our organization is full of sh**


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## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>No Excuses; No Vision</b>!
> 
> 
> Sheesh, almost makes me wonder why he settled for less than a max contract. :uhoh:


ROFLMAO!

Ummm, because you should get paid by how you performed, not by how you "might" perform. And don't worry, this is simply a honeymoon period. The real JC will soon emerge.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

> The real JC will soon emerge.


UMMMMM ..it appears the real JC has emerged in NY 

You guys are right..JC would have never been the player for the bulls that he will be in NY.....

His role just wasnt clear in Chi,and the constant selection of point guard and combo guards in the draft didnt help..In NY,its clear..Marbury plays the point,and JC is the 2 guard...Its clearly defined as his his responsibilities..He will be an All Star


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>TomBoerwinkle#1</b>!
> I'm glad he's gone, because I have no doubt that the player at MSG today would never, never have shown up at the United Center in a Bulls uniform.


Why do you think this?


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

*crawford*

Wow. Another good game. 10-12 shooting! damn!

Hats off to Jamal.

Yet another ex-Bull all-star in the making.

Too bad Pax and Skiles didn't like him.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Dan Rosenbaum</b>!
> Crawford had an excellent second game.
> 
> He is now averaging 28.9 points per 40 minutes on a phenomenal 73.7 percent effective field goal shooting. Per 40 minutes, he is also averaging 4.6 rebounds, 5,2 assists, 3.9 turnovers, 2.0 steals, and 0.7 blocks.


So, in other words...





...it's pre-season.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>bullet</b>!
> wer'e waisting to much energy on this
> 
> 
> ...



:laugh:


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Crawford will undoubtably make the Bulls organization look stupid. I just finally realized for the first time, since he's been in the league, that Crawford is only 23 years old. I mean (duh yes), but he is so young and is only scratching the surface of his talent. His best years will be played at MSG. 

At least the Bulls didn't get Moochie.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>GB</b>!
> 
> 
> So, in other words...
> ...


Yup... and soon it will be the regular season.

Then we can compare Crawford vs the current Bulls head - to - head some more.

Next will be the playoffs. Sadly, only Jamal will be playing while the Bulls watch on TV.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

*foolish, foolish bulls*



> Jamal Crawford made 10 of 12 shots and scored 25 points Saturday to lead the New York Knicks to a 98-84 preseason win over the San Antonio Spurs.
> 
> Crawford and Stephon Marbury overpowered the Spurs early from the backcourt, and forwards Trevor Ariza and Michael Sweetney filled the middle for the Knicks, who have won their first two preseason games.





> Crawford took over in the third with flashy moves. The 6-foot-5 guard followed a slick crossover with a jumper after San Antonio cut the lead to 66-62. His fastbreak dunk over 7-foot center Nesterovic started the Knicks' 10-0 run that gave New York an 82-68 advantage after three quarters.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> Crawford will undoubtably make the Bulls organization look stupid. I just finally realized for the first time, since he's been in the league, that Crawford is only 23 years old.


I think this is the one fact that so many people on this forum overlook when evaluating our players.

They have so much basketball to play before they retire... especially the ones we draft as teens.

Oh well. I guess the "right way" does not include having all-stars.


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## bullet (Jul 1, 2003)

I really did not want Jamal on the team - I think he's damage as for character and as a player(low team bb iq).

His talent though is unquestionable.

I thought we could do better then just dump JYDs contract(like at least taking 2 2nd rounders from ny as well) but I know in 2 years I'd be happy with Freeing cap space , and Pax must have targeted that season in his longturm plans.

Still - I thought we had to insist on sign Jamal(Happy/unhappy since i find it hard to believe he's stay one more year on qo - he's got Jaguar bills to pay ) for slightly more then what Pax offered him (I thinl we could offer around 44 and Pax offered 38-39??) , and if he ain't in Skiles/Pax plans trade him (thats a tradable contract for a scorer as Jamal)along with expiring ERob (7 mil expirer is value even if it's ERob) after the end of the season. thats a nice package and surely could get us something with value , not only cap relief...


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## The True Essence (May 26, 2003)

crawford is an all star in the making. i never knew how good this kid was til i saw him in these last two games. His ball handling, speed, and jumpshot are all top notch. He hasnt missed an open shot yet, and i bet he didnt see many of those in chicago.

and for the guy who said hes played NY many times, and you just didnt notice him is pretty wrong. Crawford lit up the knicks a bunch of times, the announcers mentioned this.

and DAMN, he has one of the best crossovers in the league. the garden was going nuts.


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## knicksfan (Jan 4, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Chi_Lunatic</b>!
> We traded Jamal Crawford & Jerome Williams for Eric Piatkowski, Othella Harrington & Frank Williams?
> 
> *Vomits*


and to make it worse for you guys, the 2nd best player of the WHOLE DEAL, frank williams is likely not to even play for you guys


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## bullet (Jul 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>PennyHardaway</b>!
> crawford is an all star in the making. i never knew how good this kid was til i saw him in these last two games. His ball handling, speed, and jumpshot are all top notch. He hasnt missed an open shot yet, and i bet he didnt see many of those in chicago.
> 
> and for the guy who said hes played NY many times, and you just didnt notice him is pretty wrong. Crawford lit up the knicks a bunch of times, the announcers mentioned this.
> ...


don't forget it's a different situation - in Chicago he was the leading scorer and a veteran - In NY he is a young player with some heavy stars and especially contracts ahead of him.

And yeah - he missed most of his shots , open ones too (though teams playing against Bulls focused on him while with ny they'd focus on Stephan) - leading to a staggering 38 fg% and 32 3p%.

NY is clearly a better place for him since he can relax behind the other team leaders with fat paychecks.

I'll let U ny fans 2 years to learn his flaws closely rather then starting the number 1 fight topic on bulls active board again.

Anyway if it turns out we missed on a very special player (as about half the Bulls forum think) then it won't be the 1st time , not even in recent years - did U know how good Artest and Brad miller were when they were playing for the Bulls - I guess not. they had to leave Krauses system to be the players they R today.

Peace , and good luck with Jamal!


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>SPMJ</b>!
> 
> 
> Why should we move on? We trade our best player for nothing! NOTHING! What REALLY is sad is that there are a lot of Bulls fans who are not bothered abt this! Y? Cuz they got some personal issues against JC. God knows y but there were a lot of haters in here who were in favor of the trade. And that DESPITE KNOWING we were going to get GARBAGE in return.


We got something. We got Trybanski, Harrington, and the Polish Rifle!

Three guys I want to root for.


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## bullet (Jul 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>knicksfan</b>!
> 
> 
> and to make it worse for you guys, the 2nd best player of the WHOLE DEAL, frank williams is likely not to even play for you guys


Well , he came in in bad shape , and hasn't be able to show much so far , while Pargo seems like a lock at the moment and Duhon is doing well and is the kind of guy Skiles likes.

It's sad for me since I really believed Frank is the only real Talent we got back and it does not seem to work so far.

Cut - I hope not , we can atleast get a 2nd rounder for him. Bad shape or not , people still remember his college career and he still has some worth imo.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

I knew NY would be happy with him. Jamal Crawford was always the focus besides Curry at times, so he didn't get open looks. All he needed was the current squad to get better and add more talent. That is exactly what we did, so why would we trade him right when we get a team toghether that he can strive in. We added 4 real promising rookies. We could of been a top 5 seed with him (think Heat last year with all the young talent) Knicks are going to be dead scary in the playoffs, and the East could shape up as follows.

I'm going to make a bold prediction and say the playoffs will shape up as follows.

1. Boston Celtics
2. Miami Heat
3. Indiana Pacers
4. Detroit Pistons
5. New York Knicks
6. Orlando Magic
7. Chicago Bulls
8. Philidalphia 76ers
---------------------------------------
9. Toronto Raptors
10. Cleveland Caveleirs
11. Atlanta Hawks
12. Milwaukee Bucks
13. New Jersey Nets
14. Charlotte Bobcats
15. Washington Wizards

I know I am going to take some heat for saying Celtics 1, but they got a good team together. Payton-Davis-Pierce is a good 1-2-3 punch, and will be hard for other teams to contain. For Miami well they got Shaq, yet still managed to put good talent around him. Then the Pacers well they put together a good team this year and will be towards the top again. Pistons another great team, will have shortcomings in season, but should be able to compete in the regular season. The Knicks have a good 1-2 punch in Crawford and Marbury. The East really is becoming a strong conference now.


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## NYKBaller (Oct 29, 2003)

Jcraw will be an allstar, count on it...


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## JRose5 (May 4, 2003)

Glad to see him doing good, I woulda liked to still see him on the Bulls, but what can you do now..

How bout JYD, how has he looked in his first few games in NY?


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>NYKBaller</b>!
> Jcraw will be an allstar, count on it...


And Piatowski, Harrington, Williams, Wilks, Tybranski, and Griffin are going to be good house makers with all those bricks of theirs. I wish Crawford was our starting 2, even though Deng is awesome there. Our lineup is so much more complete with Crawford. Oh well we will just have 10 more losses then we would of had with Crawford but winning aint anything, is it Paxson?


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## BealeFarange (May 22, 2004)

I just want to say, so I can feel good about myself and pat myself on the back, that I DID know how good Artest and Miller were when we traded them. There is no post-record to show this because I wasn't here, but yeah...whatever. The guy I was sorta wrong about was Elton...I didn't think he'd be a near-great player every single year. 

I've said it roughly 3948 times: trading Crawford was a horrible move. That being said, he will be better with the NYK for various reasons than he would have been had he stayed here. Still...why are pax/skiles bigger than talent? Wins? ENTERTAINMENT? They're not. When they're both fired in two years, we'll miss JC and wish we'd had an administration that would have utilized him and fit him in. I'm not saying he's MJ...but he IS a fine, fine player.

And question the kid's iq all you want...but character questions are bull**** when all he ever did as a Bull was work his *** off. 99% of the character "problems" with him were COMPLETELY in the heads of his haters. 

It makes me sick to see him gone. Sick.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>JRose5</b>!
> Glad to see him doing good, I woulda liked to still see him on the Bulls, but what can you do now..


Fire the people that are responsible for him playing for the Knicks?


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