# 76ers are better without AI..



## grizzos

Period :clap:


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## STUCKEY!

No they are better with Ai NOT DOMINATING THE BALL!
If Ai took 10 less shots they would be so much better


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## Chalie Boy

:whofarted


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## tone wone

some need to work on their thread making skills


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## ChiBron

Much like how LA was better w/o Kobe last season.


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## grizzos

I would love to see their record when AI is out.. it is far better than what it is with him in the lineup.


BTW Lakers are 0 - 2 without kobe.. thanks for bringing it up


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## DaBigTicketKG21

grizzos said:


> I would love to see their record when AI is out.. it is far better than what it is with him in the lineup.
> 
> 
> BTW Lakers are 0 - 2 without kobe.. thanks for bringing it up


You shouldnt have brought that up because someone* will get the records from previous years with Iverson out and you will look like a fool.

*Can I get a volunteer?


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## tone wone

SPMJ said:


> Much like how LA was better w/o Kobe last season.


 except they weren't


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## GTA Addict

http://www.basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?t=189024 



Ras said:


> People always say Iverson's biggest fault is the amount of shots he takes. Well I did my homework, and this turns out to be not true. It seems the Sixers win more games when Iverson takes more shots.
> 
> _*2004-2005*_*
> 
> _Less than 25 shot attempts:_ *18-20 / 47.4%* - Over an 82 game stretch, that equals a record of roughly 39-43.
> 
> _More than or equal to 25 shot attempts:_ *22-14 / 61.1%* - Over an 82 game stretch, that equals a record of roughly 50-32.
> 
> _More than or equal to 30 shot attempts: _*9-3 / 75.0%* - Over an 82 game stretch, that equals a record of roughly 62-20.
> 
> Some of you may believe that he's just shooting more in some games because he's actually hitting his shots, causing him to win more. Well that is not the case.
> 
> _Less than 25 shot attempts:_ *335/789 - 42.5%*
> 
> _More than or equal to 25 shot attempts:_ *431/1018 - 42.3%*
> 
> _More than or equal to 30 shot attempts: _*177/373 - 47.5%*
> 
> So his field goal percentage for "less than" and "more than" 25 shot attempts are roughly the same, yet he wins more when he shoots more than 25 shot attempts. It does look as if when he takes 30+ shot attempts, he's really hitting his shots.
> 
> Now I wanted to make sure this wasn't just a one year fluke, so I did the same research for his entire career.
> 
> _*CAREER*_
> 
> _Less than 25 shot attempts:_ *171-191 / 47.2%* - Over an 82 game stretch, that equals a record of roughly 39-43.
> 
> _More than or equal to 25 shot attempts:_ *141-101 / 58.3%* - Over an 82 game stretch, that equals a record of roughly 48-34.
> 
> _More than or equal to 30 shot attempts: _*51-30 / 63.0%* - Over an 82 game stretch, that equals a record of roughly 52-30.
> 
> So over his entire career, it follows roughly the same pattern. If Iverson shot roughly 25 or more shots per game for his entire career, he should theoretically have a better win-loss record than he currently has (*312-292 / 51.7%*).
> 
> _*Shot Average Per Season and Wins*_
> 
> *1996-1997:* 19.8 - 21-55 (27.6%)
> *1997-1998:* 17.6 - 31-49 (38.8%)
> *1998-1999:* 22.0 - 28-20 (58.3%)
> *1999-2000:* 24.8 - 43-29 (61.4%)
> *2000-2001:* 25.5 - 50-21 (70.4%)
> *2001-2002:* 27.8 - 36-24 (60.0%)
> *2002-2003:* 23.7 - 47-34 (57.3%)
> *2003-2004:* 23.4 - 21-27 (43.8%)
> *2004-2005:* 24.2 - 42-33 (56.0%)
> 
> So for the 4 seasons where he averaged 24 or more shot attempts, he had a combined record of 171-107 (61.5%) or an average season record of 50-32.
> 
> So therefore, Iverson shouldn't be criticized for taking so many shots, since he wins more if he chucks more.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I just recently talked to a poster in the Sixers forum, and they believe that the total shots isn't what makes Iverson hurt the team, it's the amount of plays begin and end with Iverson, so I'm going to dive into this matter a little bit deeper. I will be adding in the amount of assists and turnovers, since those are instances where the play would be beginning or ending with him.
> 
> _*2004-2005*_
> 
> _Less than 6 assists:_ *5-11 / 31.3%* - Over an 82 game stretch, that equals a record of roughly 26-56.
> 
> _More than or equal to 6 assists:_ *35-23 / 60.3%* - Over an 82 game stretch, that equals a record of roughly 50-32.
> 
> _More than or equal to 10 assists:_ *15-8 / 65.2%* - Over an 82 game stretch, that equals a record of roughly 54-28.
> 
> So now it's obvious that the more he passes, the more the team wins. Since he was talking possessions, I'll follow up by finding the win percentage with shots and assists intertwined.
> 
> _Less than 6 assists with less than 25 shot attempts:_ *2-5 / 28.6%* - Over an 82 game stretch, that equals a record of roughly 23-59.
> 
> _Less than 6 assists with more than or equal to 25 shot attempts:_ *3-6 / 33.3%* - Over an 82 game stretch, that equals a record of roughly 27-55.
> 
> No games were played where Iverson had less than 6 assists but more than, or equal to 30 shot attempts.
> 
> 
> _More than or equal to 6 assists with less than 25 shot attempts:_ *16-15 / 51.6%* - Over an 82 game stretch, that equals a record of roughly 42-40.
> 
> _More than or equal to 6 assists with more than or equal to 25 shot attempts:_ *19-8 / 70.4%* - Over an 82 game stretch, that equals a record of roughly 58-24.
> 
> _More than or equal to 6 assists with more than or equal to 30 shot attempts:_ *9-3 / 75.0%* - Over an 82 game stretch, that equals a record of roughly 62-20.
> 
> 
> _More than or equal to 10 assists with less than 25 shot attempts:_ *6-4 / 60.0%* - Over an 82 game stretch, that equals a record of roughly 49-33.
> 
> _More than or equal to 10 assists with more than or equal to 25 shot attempts:_ *9-4 / 69.2%* - Over an 82 game stretch, that equals a record of roughly 57-23.
> 
> _More than or equal to 10 assists with more than or equal to 30 shot attempts:_ *3-0 / 100.0%* - Over an 82 game stretch, that equals a record of roughly 82-0.
> 
> So now it shows that the more Iverson not only shoots, but has the ball in his hands leading to assists leads to an even more impressive win record. So pretty much, the more plays that begin and end with Iverson, the better the Sixers do.


I'm just the messenger. All credit goes to Ras for nuking this baseless thread with his research.


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## HB

Dont know if they are better without AI, but C-Webb can still play the game. He's no slouch either


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## grizzos

DaBigTicketKG21 said:


> You shouldnt have brought that up because someone* will get the records from previous years with Iverson out and you will look like a fool.
> 
> *Can I get a volunteer?



It was either last year or 2 years ago ai got hurt and they won like 9 in a row.. 

who knows though he is always getting hurt


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## ChiBron

grizzos said:


> It was either last year or 2 years ago ai got hurt and they won like 9 in a row..


You sure u're not talking abt the 2002 Raptors? Because the 76ers haven't won 9 in a row since the 00-01 season. Forget 9 straight w/o AI.


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## cambyblockingyou

I'm doubting this!


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## Dragnsmke1

grizzos said:


> Period :clap:


lets boo this man!!


BOO!!!


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## cambyblockingyou

urns.


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## Chalie Boy

Boooooo!!!!!


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## moss_is_1

please it was against the knicks...the best performance in this game was by qyntell woods? i thought he was cut


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## cambyblockingyou

Chalie Boy said:


> Boooooo!!!!!


urns.


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## SirCharles34

grizzos said:


> Period :clap:


As a 6er fan, that was the 1st thing that came to my mind after seeing the highlights on sports center. 

I tell you what, if he misses more gms and all the role players start playing like John Salmons did 2nite combined with us winning; they will trade his arse. Mark my words. 

I love AI but if management can see that everyone is producing w/out him then, he gone..... period.


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## Your Answer

alleninsf said:


> As a 6er fan, that was the 1st thing that came to my mind after seeing the highlights on sports center.
> 
> I tell you what, if he misses more gms and all the role players start playing like John Salmons did 2nite combined with us winning; they will trade his arse. Mark my words.
> 
> I love AI but if management can see that everyone is producing w/out him then, he gone..... period.


You dissapoint me as an Iverson and Sixers fan I knew this game would bring this out from everyone but ppl need to remember one it was THE KNICKS!! and 2 as said in the post game show after talking to Iverson, Allen said I give them the ball they just give it back to me the team needs to take some of the burden off of allen and try to go out and score when they get the ball and not just give it back to him as much as yall think you know I would put money on it that allen doesnt want to take every shot

It is easier for everyone to score when they know the only way they are gonna win the game is if everyone steps up they just need to play with that mentality every game

As for the thread starter who kept saying things to make him self look stupider there was never a 9 game win streak without AI and AI plays thru so many injurys so the fact that he said it happens all the time cuz hes injured is bs he hardly ever sits out and lastly im not gonna waste my time looking it all up but I think they have a 35% winning percentage when AI misses a game so no not even close to better when hes gone

But who cares because allen WILL NOT be traded PERIOD :clap:


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## Pay Ton

grizzos said:


> Period :clap:


The world is better without you.

Period.


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## Your Answer

Anyones whos intrested after tonights game the Sixers website has posted All of allens injuries and what the team has done when hes missed the games 


This was the sum of it all 

RECORD 
Regular Season 39-55 
Playoffs 0-1 

and if you look in the last year or 2 like the dude who started this said they went on a nine game win streak there is nothing close to resemble that there

Heres the link yall can look at itIverson Injuries


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## TiMVP2

Shut up grizzotight


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## Diable

The problem with the current sixers team is that Webber isn't being used properly and he really can't be used properly so long as AI is playing PG.The best use of Webber is to give him the ball and let him make plays,but that's also the best thing you can do with AI.It would be easier to build a team with a conventional roster to play with Webber,but you already have Iversen and he's a pretty good player.Since you don't have much besides the two of them you need someone who can find creative solutions to the problem.I don't have any of those and as best I can tell noone else does either.


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## tone wone

It would be nice if Philly rebounded and played a little D. If they did i'm almost certain they would have a couple more wins.


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## DuMa

people that make this assumption after 1 game need to be shot.

why argue abotu a small sample size?


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## JNice

..

Iverson should pass more. But the other side of things that most people ignore is that often times with superstars like AI, teammates tend to get stagnant and end up standing around watching the superstar player. That happened a lot while Tracy McGrady was in Orlando.


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## Mr. Hobbes

grizzos said:


> Period :clap:


no


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## Ruff Draft

Send A.I. to the Timberwolves then.


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## duncan2k5

just because they won one game without Ai doesn't mean they are better without him. the spurs win games without timmy. the lakers win games without kobe, but they are not better without them. get real


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## JT

Iverson is a great player but he needs to pass the ball more. Simple. I'll go so far as to say that if the Sixers replaced him with an average PG/SG and ran the offense through CWebb, they would have a lot more wins than they do now. The demise of Mayce has been greatly exaggerated, the man has a lot left in the tank.


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## Dragnsmke1

sherako said:


> Iverson is a great player but he needs to pass the ball more. Simple. I'll go so far as to say that if the Sixers replaced him with an average PG/SG and ran the offense through CWebb, they would have a lot more wins than they do now. The demise of Mayce has been greatly exaggerated, the man has a lot left in the tank.


yup cause a guy avg. 7.5 assist a game doesnt pass enough...watch a game sometime and stop making assumptions using data from years ago...


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## bbasok

He MUST be kidding


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## cambyblockingyou

sherako said:


> Iverson is a great player but he needs to pass the ball more. Simple. I'll go so far as to say that if the Sixers replaced him with an average PG/SG and ran the offense through CWebb, they would have a lot more wins than they do now. The demise of Mayce has been greatly exaggerated, the man has a lot left in the tank.


I don't think so, i just think they need to use him correctly. He needs to be a SG again. And how about running some players every now and then that doesn't involve Iverson touching the ball? If he doesn't touch the ball then he can't chuck it, can he?


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## JT

Dragnsmke1 said:


> yup cause a guy avg. 7.5 assist a game doesnt pass enough...watch a game sometime and stop making assumptions using data from years ago...


Assist-numbers? My example... Stephon Marbury. He was getting 8 assists for quite a few years...but any knowledgable head on here will tell you they weren't effective in the team scheme. Same thing with Iverson



> He needs to be a SG again.


Well Larry Brown had him as that and he was free to chuck to his heart's content. The way you win with Iverson is to surround him with defensive players...guy who will pass it back without thinking twice. Any player who has real offensive talent he cannot mesh with.


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## cambyblockingyou

76ers best year was when they had a bunch of defensive minded guys, played Ivey at shooting guard and just let him score, the rest of the team concentrated on preventing the opponent from scoring. it worked.


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## cambyblockingyou

sherako said:


> Well Larry Brown had him as that and he was free to chuck to his heart's content. The way you win with Iverson is to surround him with defensive players...guy who will pass it back without thinking twice. Any player who has real offensive talent he cannot mesh with.


hah, you beat me to my point.


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## Dragnsmke1

sherako said:


> Assist-numbers? My example... Stephon Marbury. He was getting 8 assists for quite a few years...but any knowledgable head on here will tell you they weren't effective in the team scheme. Same thing with Iverson
> 
> 
> Well Larry Brown had him as that and he was free to chuck to his heart's content. The way you win with Iverson is to surround him with defensive players...guy who will pass it back without thinking twice. Any player who has real offensive talent he cannot mesh with.


actually Starburry was in a very effective scheme those years... hes the main reason KG developed so quickly.

And he almost lead an upset in the playoffs with the Suns over the Spurs...

His stint in NJ the 2nd and 3rd best players were always injured..even Jkidd said that...


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## madskillz1_99

I think that the sixers are better WITH AI. That is all.


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## STUCKEY!

If Iverson wants to be Point Gaurd then he needs to play his positon!


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## SirCharles34

JNice said:


> ..
> 
> Iverson should pass more. But the other side of things that most people ignore is that often times with superstars like AI, teammates tend to get stagnant and end up standing around watching the superstar player. That happened a lot while Tracy McGrady was in Orlando.


True, and that's no one's fault but the coach's.


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## Laz-E-Boy

grizzos said:


> Period :clap:



lmao

To even suggest that...I think you should stick to your current job: :clown:


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## grizzos

Well thats 2 in a row without the Great AI :cheers:


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## cambyblockingyou

lol, i knew someone would bump this.


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## grizzos

I dont think its by accident. I honestly do think they are better without him. The guy made one nice run in the playoffs, what about the last few years??


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## Your Answer

grizzos said:


> I dont think its by accident. I honestly do think they are better without him. The guy made one nice run in the playoffs, what about the last few years??


Dude you are a freaking idiot you get this assumption from watching them play the KNICKS AND THE MAGIC did you happen to read the article posted that shows the sixers are 39-55 without Allen? So please stop speaking and making up BS in your head to back up your garbage


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## clips_r_teh_wieners

i think mods should lock up a pointless and stupid thread like this when u kno the author is just gonna get bashed for it.


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## grizzos

Route I-76 said:


> Dude you are a freaking idiot you get this assumption from watching them play the KNICKS AND THE MAGIC did you happen to read the article posted that shows the sixers are 39-55 without Allen? So please stop speaking and making up BS in your head to back up your garbage



Who cares who they were playing.. They had AI last time they played the knicks and lost.

What is AI career winning %.. ?? Yall are acting like this was a great team with him :curse:


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## grizzos

Sixers record the last 2 years was 
43 - 39
33 - 49


My opinion isnt that far fetched


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## SirCharles34

grizzos said:


> Who cares who they were playing.. They had AI last time they played the knicks and lost. :curse:


We also lost to the Magic with him.


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## Kunlun

If the Sixers win their next three games (Suns, Pistons, Cavaliers) without Iverson I will begin to believe this. Until then... Nope.


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## Kmasonbx

I remember a few years ago when AI missed the first 5 games of the season, the Sixers started out 0-5, he comes back they win their next 6 games. They just beat the Knicks and the Magic, not exactly great teams. People just try to look for things to bash players they don't like, and end up makign senseless arguments. Try coming up with a reason for why the Sixers are better without AI, instead of just saying they are. While the Sixers aren't better without AI I will admit that they are definitely a better defensive team without him, which is why they are able to beat bad teams like the Knicks and Orlando with him in street clothes.


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## shobe42

even if the sixers kept winning its more a sign of how they need to make little adjustments... but to say that they are better w/ o him is plain dumb... a lot of times when a star player goes out initially the other players step up and play better than usuall but in the long run there is no way they would be better without AI... didnt the lakers win like 4 in a row or something last year when Kobe went out...


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## Sixerfanforlife

I believed this during the Knicks game too, for some reason the team was sharing the basketball, moving the basketball and playing the game the right way. But Sonny Hill made a very very good point about all this: AI tries to run the offense, the same way a Kevin Ollie would do, Or a John Salmons would do, howeveer, these guys keep looking at AI and they're like "I'm not a scorer, your a scorer, my job is like to be the 3rd or 4th man on the floor or something" Guys like Kobe Bryant and them, they're forced to take these shots, and it's not really fair to judge them on these type of teams: Teams that are so accustomed,to seeing Allen Iverson or Kobe or WHOMEVER score 30 or something. I will agree, with Shobe baby on this: We need to make adjustments when Allen Iverson comes back. Peferably the adjustment is this: Finding a way to have these guys take shots, regardless if an Allen Iverson is on the floor or not. Take A Look at Steve Francis's Orlando Magic: That team is much more mature then these 76ers, even though they have an Allen Iverson' type of player staring at the court and all that stuff, they still take and make shots. And let me tell you something, if Allen Iverson can get this team, if MO can get this team into a system, where 5 guys can touch the basketball confidently and spread and make shots. AI can be one of the more dangerous players in the NBA, and among the best of all time. I'm not exergrating when I post that.


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## Kmasonbx

shobe42 said:


> even if the sixers kept winning its more a sign of how they need to make little adjustments... but to say that they are better w/ o him is plain dumb... *a lot of times when a star player goes out initially the other players step up and play better than usuall * but in the long run there is no way they would be better without AI... didnt the lakers win like 4 in a row or something last year when Kobe went out...


That is very true it made me think about when Magic retired. The Lakers were just coming off the Finals appearance against the Bulls and I'm not 100% sure but they may have been the favorites to represent the West again, then Magic retires because of the HIV virus. At first it looks like the Lakers are doomed they start out 1-3, then win 9 straight as if they didn't need Magic, they stretched their record to 16-7 and at their high point they were 10 games over at 27-17. But then the realization that they couldn't be that good without Magic set in, they lost 12 of their next 16 to fall to 31-29 and finished at 43-39 and lost in 4 games to the Blazers. This just shows 2 games is nowhere near enough to judge how good a team is without a certain player, and neither is 23 games or even 44 games, the season is 82 games long.


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## duncan2k5

Dragnsmke1 said:


> actually Starburry was in a very effective scheme those years... hes the main reason KG developed so quickly.
> 
> And he almost lead an upset in the playoffs with the Suns over the Spurs...
> 
> His stint in NJ the 2nd and 3rd best players were always injured..even Jkidd said that...


winning 2 out of a possible seven games isn't a near upset


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## Kunlun

Sixerfanforlife said:


> I believed this during the Knicks game too, for some reason the team was sharing the basketball, moving the basketball and playing the game the right way. But Sonny Hill made a very very good point about all this: AI tries to run the offense, the same way a Kevin Ollie would do, Or a John Salmons would do, howeveer, these guys keep looking at AI and they're like "I'm not a scorer, your a scorer, my job is like to be the 3rd or 4th man on the floor or something" Guys like Kobe Bryant and them, they're forced to take these shots, and it's not really fair to judge them on these type of teams: Teams that are so accustomed,to seeing Allen Iverson or Kobe or WHOMEVER score 30 or something. I will agree, with Shobe baby on this: We need to make adjustments when Allen Iverson comes back. Peferably the adjustment is this: Finding a way to have these guys take shots, regardless if an Allen Iverson is on the floor or not. Take A Look at Steve Francis's Orlando Magic: That team is much more mature then these 76ers, even though they have an Allen Iverson' type of player staring at the court and all that stuff, they still take and make shots. And let me tell you something, if Allen Iverson can get this team, if MO can get this team into a system, where 5 guys can touch the basketball confidently and spread and make shots. AI can be one of the more dangerous players in the NBA, and among the best of all time. I'm not exergrating when I post that.


Damn, didn't know that was you Sixerfanforlife. That could've been your best post ever.


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## Dragnsmke1

I do believe AI is this seasons MVP(if only the 6ers can post a good enough record for him to get it)


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## PaCeRhOLiC

LMAO at the name of this sad thread....




*Go PaCeRs!!!!!*


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## Dragnsmke1

duncan2k5 said:


> winning 2 out of a possible seven games isn't a near upset


when your up 2-0 it is...


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## Dragnsmke1

and wasnt it 2 out of 5?


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## djtoneblaze

It was 2 out of 7 and the Suns didn't win the first 2 games.


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## Dragnsmke1

djtoneblaze said:


> It was 2 out of 7 and the Suns didn't win the first 2 games.


just checked and you are correct . it was a 2 out of 7 series but the suns did have them tied 2-2 after 4 games...this was after being picked to be the 28th worst team in the league due to Starbury not being that good...


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## f22egl

Yes, they are only down by 22 to Suns with 4 minutes to go; I bet if they had AI they would be down by 30....


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## SirCharles34

Kunlun said:


> Damn, didn't know that was you Sixerfanforlife. That could've been your best post ever.


LOL...Kunlun.. I was thinking the exact same thing.


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## f22egl

Bump... 76ers beat the Cavaliers at Cleavland. Iverson finishes with 33 points, 9 assists, and 5 rebounds.


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## BlakeJesus

Delete + Ban

Wate of thread.


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## f22egl

Jameh said:


> Delete + Ban
> 
> Wate of thread.


 Yup


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