# Game #2: Cavs @ Spurs (11/4/2005)



## remy23

*VS* 

*Cleveland Cavaliers* *(1-0) @* *San Antonio Spurs* *(1-0)*

_*STARTERS*_


*BENCH*


*TIME:* 5:00 pm PT, 8:00 pm ET
*TV:* *ESPN*, FSOhio
*Radio:* *WTAM 1100*
*Location:* *SBC Center*, San Antonio, Texas

Cleveland came out stroking jumpers and beating the Hornets in front of a strong crowd at The Q. Things get tougher as Cleveland not only has to go on the road, but also face the defending world champions. Checking Parker’s penetration will be crucial because Duncan will be hard enough to stop as is, without having a penetrator get him the ball in better spots. To beat the Spurs, Cleveland will have to play a very clean game. Larry Hughes is going to need to find his touch and Gooden is of course the x-factor.


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## KingoftheCourt23

After the great start this is the game that will show what this team has got. The spurs will play much better D than the hornets and will test our D. I am very excited to watch this game and I hope the downpour of threes continues.


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## Pioneer10

This will be a tough game for us. We don't really have an exceptional interior defender AND we have trouble with ultra quick PG. So say hello to TD and Parker.

I'm really excited to see how Hughes does against Manu and Lebron vs. a top notch defender in Bowen.

We'll really see what we're made up of in this games


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## KokoTheMonkey

This should be a very good game. LeBron and Hughes pose a big problem for the Spurs because one of those two can roam off of Bruce Bowen and play the passing lanes, and of course both players are very good at getting steals and finishing in the open court. Of course, Bowen can hit wide open threes, but he's only going to do so much damage. Cleveland will need their 3 point stroke to be on. 

Good luck guys, and I get to go to the game, so I'll stop by with some thoughts afterwards.


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## Benedict_Boozer

This is indeed a true test of our squad, we can see where we really are. The Spurs are near unbeatable at home, so everyone will have to be on the top of their game. 

We already know we're a great home team, but consistently winning on the road will elevate us into a contender for the central crown. 

Also we should get to see how Brown makes adjustments and handles rotations in a close game.


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## futuristxen

Early measuring stick. I don't know if the Cavs will win since it's in San Antonio. But if they did, damn.

The biggest thing is going to be to hit the glass.


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## Pioneer10

Z needs to make his present felt this game. He's bigger and has more length then any Spur so he needs to make up on the offensive end anything we give up on the defensive interior wise.

Lebron of course has an edge on Bowen and hopefully Hughes will neutralize Manu. Parker has an edge at PG but otherwise i'll take Gooden over Oberto, Nazr, or Restorovic. So Z needs to keep somewhat close to Duncan in terms of production for us to give us a shot.

I really really wish AV was available for this game. His height and energy on the boards would really help us against good frontcourts like the Spurs.


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## remy23

AV's return is a mystery. People keep saying he'll be out until around the All-Star break. Yet I believe I heard the rumor that Anderson himself said he could return in about a month. Who knows when he comes back. It could be a long time or it could be sooner than we think.


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## Benedict_Boozer

AV looked pretty unhappy on the bench, he is definately a guy who loves the game. It would not surprise me to see him come back early.

Our bench unit will be pretty damn good with AV (my 2nd favorite Cav by the way).

Hopefully he brings back the sideshow bob hair also.


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## Cap

I can see the Cavs winning this one because historically the Spurs start out slow. But it's in SA, so I say no W. It should be a good game though.


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## remy23

*'San Antonio North' visits the real thing*









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> *CAVALIERS*
> *’San Antonio North’ visits the real thing*
> 
> Friday, November 04, 2005
> 
> *Mary Schmitt Boyer
> Plain Dealer Reporter*
> 
> The Cavaliers' connections to the San Antonio Spurs are so numerous and so deep that NBA Commissioner David Stern referred to Cleveland as "San Antonio North" in a television interview during the team's home opener on Wednesday night.
> 
> "That's a reach," Cavs General Manager Danny Ferry said with a smile on Thursday morning, before his new team left to play his old team in San Antonio tonight.
> 
> Ferry, coach Mike Brown, assistant general manager Lance Blanks, assistant coach Hank Egan and guard Mike Wilks all won titles with the Spurs.
> 
> "I hope we have our own identity eventually, but if somebody wants us to compare us to them, I'll take that," Brown said after practice on Thursday. "It's like somebody telling me I'm good-looking. OK. Thanks."
> 
> The defending NBA champion Spurs have won three titles in the past seven seasons, and they are favored to repeat after adding Michael Finley and Nick Van Exel to a returning nucleus that includes Tim Duncan, Manu Ginobili and Tony Parker. But it's more than just the winning that defines the Spurs. Most outsiders believe the San Antonio organization knows what's important and does things the right way.
> 
> Coach Gregg Popovich, for instance, did not meet with the media on Thursday because he was taking part in a special ceremony to present the office staff with its championship rings.
> 
> "San Antonio was just rated the No. 1 franchise in all of sports by ESPN," said Ferry, who will receive one of those rings, along with Blanks and Wilks, before tonight's game.
> 
> "We are humbled yet hungry to get to the level of the elite teams, and obviously San Antonio is that. . . . Mike and I learned a lot from San Antonio, and our experience there was a rich experience. And it was a lot of fun. But ultimately Mike's going to be himself. I'm going to be myself. The group of people we have with us will follow a path. Our experience in San Antonio will be an influence on that, for sure."
> 
> Like any proteges who return to perform before their mentors, Ferry and Brown will be trying to show how well they learned their lessons at the hands of Popovich and General Manager R.C. Buford. That being said, the one thing they already know is that championship teams are not built in one off-season. So they don't expect the game to serve as a measuring stick for comparison.
> 
> "We have a long way to go," Ferry said. "We'll learn something. Our guys will learn something. We're learn some good things and some tough things and hopefully in the end we can win a basketball game."


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## Pioneer10

*Re: 'San Antonio North' visits the real thing*

Come on get the game started already ESPN. I've been waiting all off season to see this team in action. Probably the best collection of talent for the Cavs since Daugherty, Hot Rod, Nance, Harper, and Price stepped on the court all those years ago. Can still remember before the Harper trade when Magic called them the team of the 90's


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## futuristxen

Bad start.


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## remy23

Cleveland isn’t handling the pick-and-roll well to begin the game. 9-0 run for the Spurs. The Spurs are playing at a high level. Cleveland has no choice but to raise their standard of play or have the game be essentially over after the 1st.


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## remy23

Parker penetrates down the lane. Could be a problem.


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## remy23

Spurs finally miss a shot. Z draws a foul.


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## Pioneer10

Terrible Pick and Roll D so far by the Cavs


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## Pioneer10

Pretty move by Hughes


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## remy23

Hughes scores on a drive. I hope he can get it going tonight.


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## Pioneer10

James is simply too strong for Bowen. People when they complain about Lebron's first step don't realize how big he is


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## Pioneer10

The D has tightened up nicely


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## remy23

Cavs are improving their offense. Drew with the hustle and Z with the basket. Tie game.


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## Pioneer10

That's it Z take it right at Duncan. Duncan scores and the Cavs go right to Z immediately: nicely done.

This team is much better then last year's


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## Pioneer10

Who is this Drew Gooden? tough D and smart play


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## remy23

Hughes looking good. I like seeing his confidence returning.


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## Pioneer10

Hughes also very impressive out there. Just need tougher D on Parker and we will do OK


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## Pioneer10

Dammit Gooden: lost an assist from Lebron


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## remy23

James SPIKED that dunk. LOL


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## Pioneer10

Another blown layup by us: come on guys

Nice move Gooden


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## remy23

Drew scores the basket with the chance for a 3-point play. He's looking good out here. Nice low post defense on Duncan and got his hand on a ball for a steal a few plays later. 

Sasha enters the game.


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## remy23

D. Jones popped that 3-ball. He never lacks confidence.


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## Pioneer10

D. Jones defense is atrocious. Parker is eating is up. He better make his jumpers.

Another blown layup by Gooden (TO) off a nice move by Lebron


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## remy23

I hope guys can convert on LeBron's passes because guys are blowing would be dimes out there. If this continues, LeBron might rack up a good deal of points but have few assists to show for the nice passes he's making out there.


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## Pioneer10

We're up by 3 but I'm a little disappointed. We really should be up by a few more buckets.

Parker is killing us but otherwise the D has really improved after the first Q. Lebron and Hughes very impressive on the offensive end. Gooden except for the blown layups has also played well


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## Pioneer10

remy23 said:


> I hope guys can convert on LeBron's passes because guys are blowing would be dimes out there. If this continues, LeBron might rack up a good deal of points but have few assists to show for the nice passes he's making out there.


 Agree completely: He's had some very nice passes which have not led to anything secondary to other players not converting.

I have to say Larry Hughes has been very impressive. Playing a very smooth game: not forcing and giving what the defense is giving to him


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## remy23

Z with good footwork. Wow.


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## Pioneer10

Another great pass by Lebron that won't show up on the scoreboard. Marshall to the line


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## remy23

Pioneer10 said:


> Agree completely: He's had some very nice passes which have not led to anything secondary to other players not converting.
> 
> I have to say Larry Hughes has been very impressive. Playing a very smooth game: not forcing and giving what the defense is giving to him


The guys just need to be more focused. Sometimes they're shocked when James gives them the ball.


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## Pioneer10

Second Unit playing good D but not scoring


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## Pioneer10

If anyone doesn't notice the impact of Lebron: the Cavs basically suck when he's not in there. If Lebron sits then both Z and Hughes need to be on the court


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## remy23

Great hook by Z.


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## remy23

I need to see a replay on that latest call on Marshall (traveling). It erased what would have been a dunk.


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## Pioneer10

Ughh missing some easy jumpers now: come on Damon hit those wide open one.

Z has been keeping us ahead somehow with Lebron on the jump


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## Pioneer10

remy23 said:


> I need to see a replay on that latest call on Marshall (traveling). It erased what would have been a dunk.


 Didn't look like a travel to me


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## remy23

Great finish by James.


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## Pioneer10

Bad shot by Lebron against the shot clock


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## Pioneer10

Great layup by lebron afterwards though


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## remy23

Hughes knocks down the jumper. 6 points for him.


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## remy23

Marshall knocks down the 3-ball. Good playing for him.

Offensive foul on Duncan.


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## futuristxen

Damn I love how this team looks this year. The defense, the passing, the superstar.

Lebron taking the offensive foul. Marshall and Hughes scoring on offense. It's so awesome.


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## Pioneer10

Tim Duncan whining as usual. Love the guy but he whines

Marshall looks good out there. Gooden better continue to play well or his minutes are going to be gone quickly


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## Pioneer10

Bill Walton says some of the stupidest crap.


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## remy23

Offensive foul on Hughes. Argghh!


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## Pioneer10

Ginobili flopping again


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## Pioneer10

Some weak calls: they never called that in the past


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## Pioneer10

Dumb shot by Lebron: didn't need that


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## remy23

Spurs going on a run of their own.


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## Pioneer10

Got to love all the weak calls in favor of SA: the nonexistent Marhall travel, Ginobili flopping, and the nonexistent basket interference


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## futuristxen

Cavs need to settle down on offense right now. Lebron's been acting weird this game. He seems to have a lot of energy, but it's not being used productively yet. He doesn't seem like he's in a rhythm yet.


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## remy23

LeBron often plays better in the second half of games, so I'm not too shocked seeing that.


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## remy23

Hughes ends the drought. Thank goodness.


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## remy23

Drew nails the jumper.


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## remy23

50-45 Spurs, at the half. San Antonio ends the quarter on a 13-2 run.


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## futuristxen

Just needed to get out of that quarter close. Get into the half and regain composure. I liked putting Lebron in the post on Bowen. I think that's just a huge advantage, and you've got to milk it for all it's worth.


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## Pioneer10

Gooden returning to his old ways with the dumb shot but then comes back with a nice jumper.

I still don't understand some of this refeering: you aren't supposed to be able to obstruct cutter but Bowen has his hands all over Lebron

Considering the bad calls and some dumb offense glad we're still within striking range


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## Benedict_Boozer

Like I said in the last game against NO, if we don't stop the PG penetration we don't have a chance at winning this game. Every one of Parkers buckets have been layups. 

On the positive side, I like the fact that our boys fought back after a slow start. Outside of a few offensive issues late in the half, I like the effort our guys are putting forth. Big 3rd quarter coming up here!


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## remy23

The game really has no flow. Once I get a feel for how both teams are playing, some calls come out and the rhythm gets broken. That was an entertaining half of basketball but it was not cohesive. Let's hope the second half has a better flow.


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## Benedict_Boozer

^Yeah Bowen is just man-handling Lebron, there have been alot of questionable calls in this game IMO.


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## Benedict_Boozer

I'd like to see more Marshall here in the 2nd half also, he knows how to play. Makes intelligent decisions on both sides of the court.


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## Pioneer10

I don't think the Z, Gooden, Hughes, Lebron, and Snow lineup works. Just not enough outside shooting. Either Marshall has to replace Gooden or Jones needs to replace Snow. That was a big part of our offensive slump in the end of the half.

And goes w/o saying we need to start fouling Parker if this continues: At least prevent the point blank layups


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## remy23

^ Yeah. Marshall has played some solid defense out there. I like how he's playing right now.


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## Pioneer10

Benedict_Boozer said:


> ^Yeah Bowen is just man-handling Lebron, there have been alot of questionable calls in this game IMO.


 This is what annoys me people connotate Good D with just grabbing and holding guys. No harm no foul = Good D in a lot of people's eyes.

When he pulled the chair from Lebron he grabbed him at least twice on the cut and post


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## Benedict_Boozer

What worked well in the half was posting Lebron also, we stopped going to that. Bowen has trouble with strong post wing players (e.g. Carmelo) so hopefully Brown goes back to that. If they double, Lebron is our best passer anyways.


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## Benedict_Boozer

Off topic: OMG did you just see Shane Battier's head on that Cato foul? Blood everywhere.


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## futuristxen

OT: Did you guys just see Shane Battier? Cato just broke dude's head. Blood everywhere. I wasn't ready for that.


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## futuristxen

Benedict Boozer--yeah, that **** was disturbing. I hope Battier doesn't die. That can't be not serious.


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## Pioneer10

futuristxen said:


> OT: Did you guys just see Shane Battier? Cato just broke dude's head. Blood everywhere. I wasn't ready for that.


 Yeah WtF if I was Grizzly I would have been in Cato's mug right after that.


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## Pioneer10

Ughh bad start


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## Pioneer10

I will say again either Marshall or Jones needs to be in at all times: no spacing with Snow in there


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## remy23

The offense has broken down.


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## remy23

Poor shot clock management.


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## futuristxen

Spurs on their game right now. Just keep it under 20 for the 4th.


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## remy23

An ice cold 3rd quarter that has tones of last year. I hope this is a one-game trend because I'd hate to see this happen again this season.


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## futuristxen

Oh yeah, and what about putting Jones or Marshall in there? I like what Drew's doing on the glass. So my vote is for Snow to take a seat. But Parker is just torching Hughes.


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## Like A Breath

Eric Snow is almost useless on the floor. Sorry to say it, but he is. If he can't cover the opposing point guard and can't make plays, he's a liability. There's no reason to have Damon Jones on the bench.


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## Pioneer10

I hate to sound like a broken record but when you're offense is not working why not bring in Marshall and Jones? Have to call out Coach Brown for not making any adjustments on offense


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## futuristxen

remy23 said:


> An ice cold 3rd quarter that has tones of last year. I hope this is a one-game trend because I'd hate to see this happen again this season.



Keep in mind. This is the best defensive team in the NBA. This happens to everybody who plays the Spurs.


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## Benedict_Boozer

The problem is we have no one to space the floor, you HAVE to put Marshall or DJ in the lineup with Hughes/James/Z or we will see the same crap as last year.

Also people are missing some wide open shots off passes from James. The Spurs are locking on him and none of our guys can capitalize.


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## Pioneer10

What is Hughes supposed to due guard both Parker and Ginobili? If Snow can't guard he needs to come out


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## Pioneer10

Benedict_Boozer said:


> The problem is we have no one to space the floor, you HAVE to put Marshall or DJ in the lineup with Hughes/James/Z or we will see the same crap as last year.
> 
> Also people are missing some wide open shots off passes from James. The Spurs are locking on him and none of our guys can capitalize.


 This isn't a shock as this lineup didn't look good at the end of the half either


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## Benedict_Boozer

^Looks like we all see the same thing.

Just get it to under 10 before the end of the qtr.


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## Pioneer10

WTF WTF WTF: No Marshall or Jones yet either? Finally about time


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## Cap

The Spurs are just unreal at home. Unreal. 

But still, it annoys me that the refs let Bowen get away with so much contact. How are the Cavs supposed to score when LeBron gets manhandled, Duncan is allowed to travel, etc. Oh well.


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## futuristxen

Drew doing his thing right now.


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## Pioneer10

Gooden is the only one playing with any fire out there. I can't wait to see how Gooden and AV look like out there together


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## LBJthefuturegoat

Damn someone needs to shake everybody out there they look lost and most are playing soft besides gooden but he's not the best decision maker...


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## remy23

futuristxen said:


> Keep in mind. This is the best defensive team in the NBA. This happens to everybody who plays the Spurs.


Losing to the Spurs is one thing but nearly going down 20 is another. You don't want to be spanked like that regardless of who you're playing.


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## Pioneer10

Game isn't over yet: just keep it within 10 or 11 and we might have a shot in the 4th. The Spurs tend to go on droughts as well


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## Like A Breath

Nobody can touch Tony Parker when he's on.


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## Pioneer10

Can we at least foul Parker?


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## Benedict_Boozer

Our perimeter defense makes Tony Parker look like Michael Jordan :sour:


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## futuristxen

You've got to put a body on Parker when he goes into the lane. That's the book on him. And it's what Brown is going to pound the Cavs for tomorrow in film. They let him waltz untouched into the lane for most of his points. A good defensive team will touch him up a few times at least.

It's a shame, because this game was looking good for the Cavs at the start, but now it looks like a blowout victory going away for the Spurs. They're the best for a reason.


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## futuristxen

remy23 said:


> Losing to the Spurs is one thing but nearly going down 20 is another. You don't want to be spanked like that regardless of who you're playing.


I think the Spurs average margin of victor was second only to the Suns last year. They tend to blow teams out.


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## Benedict_Boozer

Pioneer10 said:


> Can we at least foul Parker?


No kidding. I'm not saying be dirty, but put him on his butt next time he comes parading down the lane for layups. It's embarrassing.


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## futuristxen

How is that a foul on Lebron? Bowen was falling away before Lebron even made his move? He tried to pull the chair out from Lebron, and Lebron didn't lose his balance this time.


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## remy23

The Spurs are too intense and the game is more physical now. On that last shot by Gooden, there was contact. Nice to see Jones nail that 3.


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## futuristxen

With the offensive firepower on this Cavs roster, I'm not going to count them out until the end. All it takes is Lebron, Marshall, or Damon to get hot from 3, and the Spurs to go a little cold, and it's a ballgame again.


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## Pioneer10

futuristxen said:


> How is that a foul on Lebron? Bowen was falling away before Lebron even made his move? He tried to pull the chair out from Lebron, and Lebron didn't lose his balance this time.


 The officiating has shall we say been strange today


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## Like A Breath

After the Mavs-Suns and the Bulls-Bobcats games I wouldn't count anyone in the NBA out.


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## futuristxen

Pioneer10 said:


> The officiating has shall we say been strange today



Yeah I don't get it. Because I thought the points of emphasis were to discourage flopping, but the calls today are encouraging flopping on both sides.


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## Thuloid

futuristxen said:


> I think the Spurs average margin of victor was second only to the Suns last year. They tend to blow teams out.


Actually, Spurs average margin was best in the league last year--+7.8 compared to the Suns + 7.1. So blowouts weren't unfamiliar to them at all.


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## remy23

3rd quarter over, Spurs up by 20.


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## futuristxen

20 points. Got the whole fourth quarter. Hard to play worse than they've played the last quarter and a half. Time to show some backbone.


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## Benedict_Boozer

We need to at least fight back into this game for confidence reasons. We have a tough schedule of road games coming up and our guys need to get that swagger back.


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## Cap

This is a good test for the Cavs. Hopefully they can grow from this. 

That said I won't count them out for this game, as the Spurs are notorious 4th quarter chokers.


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## Pioneer10

We went away from Z and Lebron in the post at the end of second quarter and the 3rd. The main reason is w/o Marshall and/or Jones there was simply no space.

Considering we didn't have much time to spend on offense this offseason this a good lesson for Brown. Get teh ball to Z or Lebron in the post with shooters around them and we'll be much better off


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## futuristxen

Benedict_Boozer said:


> We need to at least fight back into this game for confidence reasons. We have a tough schedule of road games coming up and our guys need to get that swagger back.


Yeah what a diffrence a game makes. This team looked so confident coming off of the New Orleans game. And even the begining of this game, and you can just see the confidence eroding.


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## remy23

We'll see how long Coach Brown wants to try to cut into the lead and win the game. But if the bench comes in relatively soon, that'll be the white flag.


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## remy23

LeBron is showing pride. I give him credit.


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## remy23

Luke Jackson enters the game.


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## remy23

Coach Brown staying positive. I like his attitude. That's good to see.


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## futuristxen

One team is used to playing with each other and playing in a system for years and years, the other is still learning. You just hope if the Cavs lose this game, they are able to learn from it, and don't beat themselves up about it.


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## remy23

Bron to Z on the dish.


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## remy23

James has left the game.


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## futuristxen

No Mas No Mas No Mas!!


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## remy23

Maybe some of the bench guys can hit a few shots and make something of their burn.


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## Benedict_Boozer

Well let's see if Luke and Sasha can show us anything in garbage time. I'd be impressed if someone at least showed some fire and passion on D as a start.


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## Pioneer10

The game wasn't a total loss. A lot of lessons learned.

Particularly the Marshall/Jones situation. We'll be much improved from this game


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## Pioneer10

The other lesson learned is the PG situation. I would be making a call to Denver - Gooden and Luke for Miller maybe?


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## remy23

Luke hits the pair of free throws and 3-second violation on the Spurs.


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## remy23

Another 3-second violation on the Spurs.


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## remy23

Good pass by Luke.


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## Pioneer10

Luke is a wonderful passer


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## remy23

So far tonight, Luke > Sasha. 

I know the game is out of reach and it's over. But Sasha is drifting out there (my opinion). At least Luke is handling the ball, making nice passes and drew the foul on the play that sent him to the line.


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## remy23

The shot was missed but another nice pass by Luke.


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## remy23

Marshall has a "strained" calf injury? Hope it's not serious.


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## Cap

Pioneer10 said:


> The other lesson learned is the PG situation. I would be making a call to Denver - Gooden and Luke for Miller maybe?


Wow, that's actually a very good trade for both sides. Good idea.


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## remy23

EHL said:


> Wow, that's actually a very good trade for both sides. Good idea.


Would the salaries work out on that? You would be trading 2 players on rookie salaries for Miller.


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## Benedict_Boozer

This game reminded me alot of last year....no one other than Lebron shows up on the road. Our support players have to play better and make teams pay for these double/triple teams. 

It will be interesting to see how our guys bounce back against Memphis.


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## remy23

*Box Score: Cleveland 76, San Antonio 102*


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## Spudd

I would just like to say a few things on this game, i live in Australia so i don't get to watch too many cavs games but today they finally showed a cavs game.
I dont know how the other games have been but i must say after tonight damon jones must start. I agree defence is important but snow was getting beaten nearly as badly as jones & atleast jones brings some offence. I really like eric snow, but i just dont see him helping the cavs win, especially with his bad contract i cant imagine what he will be like in a few years.
Now on to gooden, i dont know what it is about him but he just seems to me like a weird player. Statswise he was impressive & i think he has vast potential, i really like the idea of marshall coming off the bench. After today i realised how much of an impact varajeo can have, they really could have used him out there.
I'd also like to add, that after tonight's game, altho i really like eric snow, if a team offers a trade inturn for a young pg i'd have to hope the cavs would take it. I thought all the problems today came from our point guard position, the penetration just killed us. In regards to lebrons defence, i thought he was poor at times, but definately showed flashes of his capability as a defender, 1 instance with the charge he drew from duncan showed this. 
I'd like to know other people's thoughts on this game as well as my comments as like i said i dont get to watch too many cavs games, the next 1 i believe is against orlando in a couple of weeks.


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## Sir Patchwork

More of an impressive showing from the Spurs than a bad showing from the Cavs. When Spurs are playing like that, you just have to look to the next night and not worry about it too much. They've been arguably the best defensive team in the league for years, and they still are, but what's scary is their offense might be better than their defense this year.


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## Benedict_Boozer

Spudd said:


> I would just like to say a few things on this game, i live in Australia so i don't get to watch too many cavs games but today they finally showed a cavs game.
> I dont know how the other games have been but i must say after tonight damon jones must start. I agree defence is important but snow was getting beaten nearly as badly as jones & atleast jones brings some offence. I really like eric snow, but i just dont see him helping the cavs win, especially with his bad contract i cant imagine what he will be like in a few years.
> Now on to gooden, i dont know what it is about him but he just seems to me like a weird player. Statswise he was impressive & i think he has vast potential, i really like the idea of marshall coming off the bench. After today i realised how much of an impact varajeo can have, they really could have used him out there.
> I'd also like to add, that after tonight's game, altho i really like eric snow, if a team offers a trade inturn for a young pg i'd have to hope the cavs would take it. I thought all the problems today came from our point guard position, the penetration just killed us. In regards to lebrons defence, i thought he was poor at times, but definately showed flashes of his capability as a defender, 1 instance with the charge he drew from duncan showed this.
> I'd like to know other people's thoughts on this game as well as my comments as like i said i dont get to watch too many cavs games, the next 1 i believe is against orlando in a couple of weeks.



I certainly agree about the PG defense. I noticed it immediately in the 1st game, we're not gonna get consistent stops on D when opposing PG's are breaking down our defense every time down the court.


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## E.H. Munro

Pioneer10 said:


> The other lesson learned is the PG situation. I would be making a call to Denver - Gooden and Luke for Miller maybe?


I don't know, if I'm the Cavs I want to unload Eric Snow in any trade.


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## remy23

*Beacon Journal | 11/04/2005 | Modest Wilks returns for ring*



> *Modest Wilks returns for a ring*
> 
> *Dribbles*
> 
> Even though Sasha Pavlovic played ahead of Luke Jackson Wednesday, Brown said they were still neck-and-neck in the pecking order.... Tonight is the start of a three-game road trip that includes visits to Memphis on Saturday and Toronto on Monday.


I posted only the end of the article because even though this was written earlier today before the game, this tidbit is still interesting. Most of us assumed Aleksandar clearly moved ahead of Luke based on the time both guys played in the opener against the Hornets. But Coach Brown says both men are even. So as of now, there is no clear winner.


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## Pioneer10

*Re: Beacon Journal | 11/04/2005 | Modest Wilks returns for ring*



remy23 said:


> I posted only the end of the article because even though this was written earlier today before the game, this tidbit is still interesting. Most of us assumed Aleksandar clearly moved ahead of Luke based on the time both guys played in the opener against the Hornets. But Coach Brown says both men are even. So as of now, there is no clear winner.


 I say it again make too much sense for Jones to start. Snow cannot be in with the starters as they're is absolutely no spacing.

However a second unit with him, Luke, and Marshall would be a very good fit. Luke is a better playmaker then Snow and both his and Marshall shooting can cover for Snow's shooting. In the starting lineup though, no one can make up for Snow's complete lack of shooting. He will simply get too many open looks from Lebron not to bury them


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## futuristxen

What was that in the third quarter--the Cavs shot like 21 percent from the field and the Spurs shot over 60? Sir Patchwork is right, no reason to beat yourselves up too much about this one, the Spurs just played great basketball. I mean did you see that defense? Every time Lebron got the ball and drove the defense collapsed on him, and when he kicked it out, the rotations were already being made, and the shot was STILL contested! When Lebron tried to post, Bowen flopped and they sent a double. Just an excellently coached team. This game just underscores how much of a favorite the Spurs are to win it all this year.

I mean, Beno Udrih who was their backup point guard last year, got his first minutes of the season last night. They are sick with depth.


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## KokoTheMonkey

That's funny, when I was watching the game yesterday late in the 4th quarter, I was saying to myself that Cleveland was a PG away from being on another level. Then when I came to this thread there are trade offers to get a better PG. 


Anyway, Bowen did a great job on LeBron. LeBron got most of his points when Finley was in the game, so it was a tough night for him. I was surprised the Cavs stopped going to Ilgauskas in the post, like they started off the game. That just allowed the Spurs to focus purely on the perimeter, because that's where Cleveland was trying to get it's points. Cleveland will be fine this year, but Eric Snow hasn't shown me much in his Cleveland days, and you can't rely on Damon Jones to be your primary ballhandler.


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## Pioneer10

KokoTheMonkey said:


> That's funny, when I was watching the game yesterday late in the 4th quarter, I was saying to myself that Cleveland was a PG away from being on another level. Then when I came to this thread there are trade offers to get a better PG.
> 
> 
> Anyway, Bowen did a great job on LeBron. LeBron got most of his points when Finley was in the game, so it was a tough night for him. I was surprised the Cavs stopped going to Ilgauskas in the post, like they started off the game. That just allowed the Spurs to focus purely on the perimeter, because that's where Cleveland was trying to get it's points. Cleveland will be fine this year, but Eric Snow hasn't shown me much in his Cleveland days, and you can't rely on Damon Jones to be your primary ballhandler.


 Looks like we noticed the same things:



Pioneer said:


> We went away from Z and Lebron in the post at the end of second quarter and the 3rd. The main reason is w/o Marshall and/or Jones there was simply no space.
> 
> Considering we didn't have much time to spend on offense this offseason this a good lesson for Brown. Get teh ball to Z or Lebron in the post with shooters around them and we'll be much better off


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## KingoftheCourt23

We looked really bad. I think the offense needs to move the ball better and get better shots. The Spurs were consistently getting good looks at the basket and thus the outscored us badly in the paint. The D looked good early on but started to fall apart. I think that with more experience together this team will be much improved and be able to play their game for the whole game.


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## remy23

*Beacon Journal | 11/05/2005 | Cavaliers schooled in loss to Spurs*



> *Cavaliers schooled in loss to Spurs*
> 
> *Parker unstoppable in San Antonio rout*
> 
> By Brian Windhorst
> Beacon Journal sports writer
> 
> *SAN ANTONIO -* The students are not yet ready to face the professors.
> 
> The Cavaliers wanted to see just where they stood Friday, to measure themselves against the best. Careful what you ask for.
> 
> With merciless execution, the San Antonio Spurs smoked the Cavs 102-76 in a jolly and sold out SBC Center.
> 
> The Cavs (1-1) are built in the Spurs' image, from their defensive-oriented coach to their rapid ball movement-based offense. Or at least they are trying to build it, because against the Spurs (2-0) in their arena and under their three championship banners, it was akin to a shanty facing a fortress.
> 
> The Spurs have the uncanny knack of always being in the right spot at the right time, whether it is on defense or on offense. When they have the ball, it moves as if designed by a team of German engineers. On defense, they swarm like a team of German Shepherds.
> 
> Tony Parker, their French point guard extraordinaire, skillfully and quickly broke down every defender whom the Cavs threw at him, which was a considerable number. Not starter Eric Snow, nor backup Damon Jones, or third-stringer Mike Wilks or emergency helper Larry Hughes could keep him from ripping up the wine and gold defense.
> 
> Time and time again he peeled off screens and got it to the lane or simply beat his man with the dribble. He scored 18 points and handed out nine assists, but his ability to foul up the Cavs' defensive rotations led to plenty of other open shots and made baskets for the silver and black.
> 
> All you need to know is that the Spurs shot 55 percent, 59 percent on 3-pointers, and scored 62 points in the lane, to understand Parker's effect.
> 
> “He's probably the quickest guy in our league, him and Allen Iverson,'' said LeBron James, who scored 20 points. “He put pressure on our defense the whole night.''
> 
> It was painfully illustrated in a defining second-quarter stretch. The Cavs, hoping to show off their new attack to a national television audience, were a scrappy bunch. They were moving the ball well and helping on defense, just like their mentors, and had built a 41-37 lead.
> 
> Parker, then, came off the bench after a rest and took charge. He led a 13-2 run that gave the Spurs the lead for good. When they opened the second half with a 15-5 spurt, thanks to four baskets from center Tim Duncan (21 points), it turned from a test game into what the Cavs feared most, another rout.
> 
> “We were feeling good about ourselves, and then, they cranked it up a notch,'' Cavs coach Mike Brown said. “They'll play with you, let you think you can play with them, and they the crank it up.''
> 
> In the second half, the difference between those proverbial notches became greater. The Cavs seemed to lose composure, whipping up ill-advised shots by the handful. They shot just 23 percent in the second half and, perhaps worse, only handed out four assists.
> 
> Damon Jones was the leader of that misadventure, tossing up shots out of sequence in going just 3-of-11 from the floor.
> 
> The Spurs shot 60 percent after halftime and handed out 13 assists.
> 
> To add injury, Donyell Marshall (five points, 10 rebounds) hurt his left calf in the third quarter. His status for the game tonight in Memphis against the Grizzlies is uncertain.
> 
> “We don't want to get frustrated because it sticks in your mind too much,'' said James, who shot just 7-of-16 against the Spurs' stiff defense. “We have to work at it and see what we did wrong.''


Bowen is a great defender but after watching him enough, I get the feeling he's better against Wally/Peja/Ray Allen types whose first inclination is to shoot the ball. Bruce does a great job of never giving up pursuit of shooters, chasing people down regardless of how many diversions or screens or set. That said, you have to drive or post up Bowen. Driving is hard because of Bowen's lateral quickness and posting is hard not just because of Bowen's "pull-the-chair-out trick" but also how he mixes that move with tugging and pulling his opponent's jersey. I'm a fan of hard play and if you can get away with it, don't stop doing it. I'd love to see a tough, grinding defensive player like Bowen on our squad. He plays a very physical brand of basketball, you have to love it. But at the same time, veteran tricks while crafty and admirable, are more a reflection of respect from refs than pure defensive ability. LeBron did a great job keeping his cool because Bowen didn't even pick up his first foul until the 3rd quarter; and I thought Bowen did at least 2-3 questionable things in the first half alone. All in all, I think this is a great learning experience. Next time the Cavs feel they are getting roughed up and seeing their opponents go on runs, it's time to stand their ground and not get rattled.


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