# Shawn Marion allstar?



## Amareca

Amare and Nash look like absolute locks so far but what about Marion?
If Amare occupies a center spot on the roster and Nowitzki, Duncan and Garnett 3 forward spots than would leave 2 forward spots open for Shawn Marion, Andrei Kirilenko, Peja Stojakovic, Chris Webber, Pau Gasol, Zach Randolph, Kenyon Martin and Carmelo Anthony.

Marion is averaging
18.7ppg
11.7rpg
2.3apg
2.1bpg
2.0spg
45.3%FG

Quite an amazing line considering that Marion has been unusually bad from the 3pt line (10% under career average) and freethrow line (15% under career average) so far this season.

Over the last 5 games

20.8ppg 13.4rpg 2.2apg 2.8bpg 1.4spg


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## MJG

I wouldn't count on it, whether or not he would be deserving. Besides being greatly overshadowed by the other two you mention, I'd be willing to bet coaches aren't going to be inclined to spend three of their seven votes on a single team. It isn't impossible, but like I said, I wouldn't count on it. Perhaps if the Suns are the best team in the league when voting roles around, and none of the rest of the forwards in the conference have really really stepped up their games ...


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## Amareca

Schrempf, Kemp, Payton for Sonics?
Allen, Baker, Robinson for Bucks?
Shaq, Jones, Van Exel, Kobe for Lakers?
Dennis Johnson, Truck Robinson, Walter Davis for Suns?


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## kg_mvp03-04

I think the West starting lineup will look like this with 4 out of the 5 being locks

C - Yao Ming
Pf- tim Duncan
Sf- Kevin Garnett
Sg- Kobe Bryant
g- Tmac

I think Amare is a lock for backup center spot, Nowitzki if he can play will proably be a forward, i think kirilenko will also make it. Nash will be chosen by the NBA for sure. I think that Marion might be left off the team because there are only 2-3 forward slots and i can't see Marion taking one this season although he is having a great year.


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## Tom

I think his jumper is way too ugly to watch in an all-star game 

I think he is deserving and if he, Nash and Amare created enough buzz you never know. I think of that group he would be the odd man out though.


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## Sad Mafioso

The Suns already should have Amare and Nash locked for All Stars spots.

Kirilenko is MUCH more deserving than Marion and the coaches will probably see it that way as well.


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## Amareca

> Originally posted by <b>Sad Mafioso</b>!
> 
> 
> Kirilenko is MUCH more deserving than Marion and the coaches will probably see it that way as well.


Much? I would say it's pretty argueable that he is more deserving.

Marion is averaging Kirilenko
18.7ppg 14.8ppg
11.7rpg 7.7rpg
2.3apg 3.0apg
2.1bpg 4.9bpg
2.0spg 1.5spg
45.3%FG 51.1%FG ( can't shoot and doesn't shoot as many 3s)


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## Ravnos

> Originally posted by <b>Amareca</b>!
> 
> 
> Much? I would say it's pretty argueable that he is more deserving.
> 
> Marion is averaging Kirilenko
> 18.7ppg 14.8ppg
> 11.7rpg 7.7rpg
> 2.3apg 3.0apg
> 2.1bpg 4.9bpg
> 2.0spg 1.5spg
> 45.3%FG 51.1%FG *( can't shoot and doesn't shoot as many 3s)*


Why are you adding that part in?


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## Sad Mafioso

> Originally posted by <b>Amareca</b>!
> 
> 
> Much? I would say it's pretty argueable that he is more deserving.


There's more to a basketball game than pure "stats". You should know that by now, or I mean are we going to compare Nash and Marbury. Both have *similar* stats career wise, but we all know who runs the offense better.

AK's effect on the basketball game as a whole is far greater than Marion's. Look at the Hawks game, heck the opener against the Lakers is a great example.

But you can be a homer and vote for the entire Suns squad if you wish.


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## Amareca

> Originally posted by <b>Ravnos</b>!
> 
> 
> Why are you adding that part in?


Because it is true? Just a thought.

Marion takes 3 times as many 3pters almost.


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## Sad Mafioso

Maybe he should stop taking them or he hasn't realised he's not a 3 point specialist by any means.


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## Amareca

> Originally posted by <b>Sad Mafioso</b>!
> Maybe he should stop taking them or he hasn't realised he's not a 3 point specialist by any means.


He shot 39.3%, 38.7% and 34% from 3pt land the last 3 seasons. Maybe not a specialist but certainly good enough to shoot some every game.

Marion #8 in efficiency rating. Kirilenko #17.

Amare is #2 and Nash #12.


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## Ravnos

> Originally posted by <b>Amareca</b>!
> 
> 
> Because it is true? Just a thought.
> 
> Marion takes 3 times as many 3pters almost.


Oh, okay. The next time you want to point out that Amare's FG% is higher than Dirk's, I'll say that Amare can't shoot and doesn't shoot as many 3s.


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## Sad Mafioso

> Originally posted by <b>Amareca</b>!
> 
> 
> He shot 39.3%, 38.7% and 34% from 3pt land the last 3 seasons. Maybe not a specialist but certainly good enough to shoot some every game.
> 
> Marion #8 in efficiency rating. Kirilenko #17.
> 
> Amare is #2 and Nash #12.


Stats, stats, stats. That's it. Marbury is a better point guard Nash. Heck the stats don't lie right. 

BTW if you've seen the Jazz play at all you'd notice that Kirilenko takes 3's too.


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## HeinzGuderian

AK47 is no better than Najera, right?


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## Amareca

> Originally posted by <b>Ravnos</b>!
> 
> 
> Oh, okay. The next time you want to point out that Amare's FG% is higher than Dirk's, I'll say that Amare can't shoot and doesn't shoot as many 3s.


Pretty funny but Dirk is shooting almost identically from behind the arc so far so it doesn't make a difference. It certainly doesn't make up for the difference between Dirk at 50% and Amare at 58% leading the league.

Also Shawn Marion takes 4 3pter per game. Nowitzki barely over 2.5.

I could also point out that Kirilenko takes less FG% overall and is not as much of a scorer so his shooting percentage should be higher.


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## Amareca

> Originally posted by <b>Sad Mafioso</b>!
> 
> 
> Stats, stats, stats. That's it. Marbury is a better point guard Nash. Heck the stats don't lie right.
> 
> BTW if you've seen the Jazz play at all you'd notice that Kirilenko takes 3's too.


Didn't I already point out that Marion takes almost 3 times as many as Kirilenko still?

Btw, stats would clearly indicate that Nash has been a much better PG than Marbury so far this season.


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## Sad Mafioso

So judging by "career stats'. Take either of them to run the Phoenix team right now. Who do you take. Judging by your excellent analysis I would say you'd go for the guy with the better stats. That would be *Stephon Marbury*(not including this season). So yeah, another losing record for Phoenix, but yeah Marbury is sure better than Nash isn't he?

Look it's not even worth arguing because you're not making much of a case for Marion as a player. Pin pointing stats can be easy but there's more to a game of basketball than that and when you learn that you'll understand why Kirilenko makes the all star team and Marion stays playing golf in the Arizona desert, which isn't THAT bad after all.


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## ToddMacCulloch11

> Originally posted by <b>Amareca</b>!
> 
> 
> Pretty funny but Dirk is shooting almost identically from behind the arc so far so it doesn't make a difference. It certainly doesn't make up for the difference between Dirk at 50% and Amare at 58% leading the league.
> 
> Also Shawn Marion takes 4 3pter per game. Nowitzki barely over 2.5.
> 
> I could also point out that Kirilenko takes less FG% overall and is not as much of a scorer so his shooting percentage should be higher.


What I think he is trying to say is that you are making the argument that its okay for Marion to shoot a lower % because he shoots more three, but if someone said that it was okay for dirk to shoot a lower % then amare because he shoots many many many more threes and pull up jumpers, you would say that is is no excuse.


But anyway...Marion has an outside shot. Duncan and KG are locks to make it..amare is listed as forward (I believe), so he'll get in there, as will Dirk (assuming this injury isn't too major)...then there is Boozer, AK47, Marion, Randolph, Webber, which can all have an argument made for them...It depends how many forwards they are going to take.

For center, Yao will be the starter, and then I guess Brad Miller as a back up, unless they count amare as a center and Kobe and Tmac at guard, with Nash and Ray Allen as backups. Marion is putting up good numbers, but I'm not to sure he'll make the team.


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## compsciguy78

Try thinking of it like this...

The Suns team with

Amare
Nash
Marion

or the Suns team with

Amare
Nash
AK47 

You give AK47 the opportunites and responsibility that Marion gets on a nightly basis with those two players and you will see AK47 blocking 8 shots a game and shooting more 3 pointers. AK47 is just a beast on the defensive end. Marion is a good small forward, but he takes more ill advised shots. AK47 is making Carlos Boozer look like Karl Malone. Maybe he is, but I never thought he was.


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## Arti

AK47 is a much, much, much better player than Marion.


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## Amareca

Marion is 3rd in rebounding right now btw. Only trailing Kevin Garnett and Tim Duncan.


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## Pan Mengtu

His rebounding is completely ridiculous right now. Amazing.

But like others have said, it's hard to take 3 players from the same team, and Amare and Nash are near locks right now.


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## NugzFan




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## Amareca

Marion 33 points 15 rebounds 4 assists 3 blocks


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## Blazer Freak

> Originally posted by <b>Amareca</b>!
> Marion 33 points 15 rebounds 4 assists 3 blocks


Jesus. 

BFreak.


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## RomaVictor

> Originally posted by <b>Amareca</b>!
> Marion 33 points 15 rebounds 4 assists 3 blocks


Yeah, I saw a lot of that game and he was beastin'.

BTW, the Elton Brand people in your sig? 

:laugh: 

What the heck were they thinking? Amare is just better right now and I don't see how it's going to change.


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## LuckyAC

Marion has the gaudy stats, but Kirilenko quietly put up a solid 21, 12 and 4 with 3 steals and 4 blocks - even two threes, Marion's specialty. Kirilenko also led his team to a win over the Rockets as the Jazz's clear first option. Marion is a nice player, but Kirilenko has much more of an impact, especially with his defense, and you can be sure the coaches who vote appreciate that, since they have to prepare their teams for him.


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## 1 Penny

Kirilenko is slightly better than Marion.

Mainly because Kirilenko is a freaking defensive machine.


But Marion is no slouch on defense either, Marion is the more potent scorer and rebounder... obviously.

And adding AK47 to Suns instead of Marion wouldnt mean simply better Suns. Marion suits that suns run and gun game more than AK.


Kirilenko >>>>>> Marion... thats BS.

They playing real good currently. AK is a beast on the block shots, but Marion is averaging 2+ blocks as well.

He may have an ugly shooting motion, but he is a freak of a player.


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## 1 Penny

> Originally posted by <b>LuckyAC</b>!
> Marion has the gaudy stats, but Kirilenko quietly put up a solid 21, 12 and 4 with 3 steals and 4 blocks - even two threes, Marion's specialty. Kirilenko also led his team to a win over the Rockets as the Jazz's clear first option. Marion is a nice player, but Kirilenko has much more of an impact, especially with his defense, and you can be sure the coaches who vote appreciate that, since they have to prepare their teams for him.




Hang on..

By your logic... then Marion just led Suns over Hornets today. Since our floor general was hurt. Marion clearly had the stats to prove that he *LED his team* to victory tonight and Im sure past nights also.



Lets not forget Okur was perfect from the offensive end today, 8/8 field goals. 4/4 free throws.


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## JT

*well i didn't even get those numbers.*



> Originally posted by <b>Amareca</b>!
> Marion 33 points 15 rebounds 4 assists 3 blocks


what the hell is up with that phoenix water, those guys are putting up video game numbers right now.


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## Amareca

Marion is averaging

20.3ppg 12.3rpg 2.2apg 1.6spg 2.0bpg 46.5%FG 32.1%3s

The guy is going to make the allstar game if he averages 20/12 and his team plays over .500 basketball. No doubt.


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## Amareca

nm


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## Amareca

nm


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## Sad Mafioso

Kirilenko against the Rockets=

21 pts(50% FG), 12 rebounds, 3 steals, 4 blocks

**



> Kirilenko dominates the stat sheet and has a lot of energy. It seems he doesn't have a defensive assignment. He was just all over the place blocking shots on the weak side. He has great instincts,'' said Tracy McGrady, who had 17 points.


He sure doesn't deserve to be an All Star huh?


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## Arclite

At this rate, Marion will get into the ASG before Stoudemire. I pretty much expected the scoring to balance out, even if you're not just on a hot streak there's no way you're going to average 29ppg playing with four other guys who all need 15-18 FGA's in the starting lineup. Marion has been absolutely awesome.


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## Amareca

> Originally posted by <b>Sad Mafioso</b>!
> 
> He sure doesn't deserve to be an All Star huh?


Maybe but as of right now Amare, Marion, Duncan, Garnett and Nowitzki are clearly the 5 best choices.

Too bad Kirilenko, Webber, Brand, Randolph and Peja could probably all make it in the East.


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## Sad Mafioso

Marion is not much deserving than Kirilenko, not when you already have 2 Suns who are making the All Star team. You still haven't come up with a valid argument besides putting up stats which only tells one side of the story.

Watch a Utah game(they're playing this comming Tuesday vs Phoenix) and watch Kirilenko's overall effect on the game(#4 in on court efficiency for starts). The way he alters the momentum for Utah on pretty much every possesion is admirable. AK doesn't need to score 50 a night to be considered a dominate player. Those that study statisical analysis know how much he really effects the game. Watch the game against the Lakers and you'll understand.

Without Kirilenko playing I doubt they would be 8-5. He's the most balanced/complete player in the NBA besides Garnett.


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## Amareca

> Originally posted by <b>Sad Mafioso</b>!
> 
> He's the most balanced/complete player in the NBA besides Garnett.


LOL!


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## Sad Mafioso

I guess Amare all of a sudden became the most complete player.

Tell me any other player in the NBA which can get those type of numbers regularly and not 1 in 10 like Marion. And thanks for skipping the rest of the argument.

See ya on Tuesday when Marion is shut down just like Kobe, Melo, T-Mac and the rest.


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## farhan007

if you think marion is going to play in the allstar game there is a slim chance. As a forward marion has to beat out players like Garnett, Duncan, Dirk, Kirilinko, randlolph, peja etc...

If marion enters as gaurd he has to beat out kobe, mcgrady, allen, nash, davis....


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## Amareca

Marion is playing much better than Randolph, Peja and Kirilenko so far.

Looks like another good game by Kirilenko tonight huh? The guys offensive skills are all average.

The only special thing about Kirilenko are his block numbers. The rest of his stats are hardly worth mentioning.


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## Sad Mafioso

Yeah a special game where he went down with an injury and played for 9 minutes right?

I guess Marion is not injury prone since allt he Suns are perfect human beings not capable of suffering a concussion. Ohh there I go sorry. 



> The only special thing about Kirilenko are his block numbers. The rest of his stats are hardly worth mentioning.


How about getting 200 steals and 200 blocks in a season(last year in case you're not following or aren't up to date). 

16 pts/8 rebounds is pretty mediocre by today's standards. I mean those numbers are similar to Antoine Walker's and we all know he's on the same level!

When you come up with a valid argument besides stats and cowarldy mentioning 1 game talk to me.


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## PoorPoorSonics

> Too bad Kirilenko, Webber, Brand, Randolph and Peja could probably all make it in the East.


Hell, rashard could make it in the east.

Personally, I dont like the Suns, and Im not a Jazz fan either. But I do like some of their players. I have always liked Marion and thought he was pretty underrated. He is putting up great numbers so far this year, and I have always thought he was a good defensive player.
Marion and Kirilenko are on two different teams playing two different styles, and arent really that similar of players, other than both being good on defense and having a lot of hustle to their game. That being said, by just looking at the stat sheets you would think marion is better....but I would take Kirilenko.


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## Hibachi!

Yeah it's defnitely Marion... I mean ANYONE can do what Kirelenko is doing, it's just the Jazz system... I mean, replace Kirelenko with I dunno... Eduardo Najera... Eduardo Najera would be just as effective...


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## Amareca

Guess who was named player of the week in the West?

Shawn Marion!


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## XYRYX

I really like Marion, same with Amare. But I hate guys like Amareca who are talking all day long that his suns have the best players bla bla bla. Same with all the Kobe lovers. How to like this guy if there are always people who are starting Threads about Kobe and are wondering why their players don't get some love. There are other players out there who play great ball. GET THIS!


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## Pan Mengtu

Does anyone know when the last time a SF averaged 10RPG for a season?


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## f22egl

> Originally posted by <b>Pan Mengtu</b>!
> Does anyone know when the last time a SF averaged 10RPG for a season?


Doesn't Marion play the 4 at times anyways?


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## XYRYX

> Originally posted by <b>f22egl</b>!
> 
> 
> Doesn't Marion play the 4 at times anyways?


:yes: 

But I bet that there is a suns homer out there who will prove you that Dirk, Hill, Jamison and AK are playing the 4 about 3 mins more per game.


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## Amareca

> Originally posted by <b>Pan Mengtu</b>!
> Does anyone know when the last time a SF averaged 10RPG for a season?


Marion averaged 10.7rpg in 00/01.


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## MarioChalmers

If you had Kirilenko, would you trade him for Marion? 

^ I think that's the question that needs to be answered...


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## jibikao

> Originally posted by <b>1 Penny</b>!
> Kirilenko is slightly better than Marion.
> 
> Mainly because Kirilenko is a freaking defensive machine.
> 
> 
> But Marion is no slouch on defense either, Marion is the more potent scorer and rebounder... obviously.
> 
> And adding AK47 to Suns instead of Marion wouldnt mean simply better Suns. Marion suits that suns run and gun game more than AK.
> 
> 
> Kirilenko >>>>>> Marion... thats BS.
> 
> They playing real good currently. AK is a beast on the block shots, but Marion is averaging 2+ blocks as well.
> 
> He may have an ugly shooting motion, but he is a freak of a player.


Agree. I watched a few Utah games and AK47's offense is not that good. Marion has above-average defense and his offense is certainly better than AK47. And Marion is GOOD at defense so overall, I think Suns needs Marion more than AK47, although it never hurts to have AK47 on your team if you need some defense boost.  

As for Suns, if they have AK47, then I guess AK47 will play the center, Amare PF and Marion can go back to his SF. 

Jimmy


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## JT

*amazin!*



> Originally posted by <b>Amareca</b>!
> Marion averaged 10.7rpg in 00/01.


Donyell Marshall of last year too.


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## Amareca

Marshall isn't really a SF and didn't play SF last year anyway.


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## RhettO

> Originally posted by <b>RomaVictor</b>!
> BTW, the Elton Brand people in your sig?
> 
> :laugh:
> 
> What the heck were they thinking? Amare is just better right now and I don't see how it's going to change.


FTR, I don't remember saying Elton would be better. I really don't know why I'm on that list. It could be because I made this post, but I guess he didn't really read what I wrote.


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## Amareca

I am pretty sure you PMed me about getting on the list.

Heck there would be a lot more people on this list and embarassed right now if I wasn't too lazy to include everyone who sent a PM.


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## kflo

> Originally posted by <b>Amareca</b>!
> 
> 
> Marion averaged 10.7rpg in 00/01.


t.r. dunn twice averaged 9.3 rpg.

a little less, but he was 6'3.


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## Captain Obvious

> Originally posted by <b>gian</b>!
> If you had Kirilenko, would you trade him for Marion?
> 
> ^ I think that's the question that needs to be answered...


This pretty much sums it up...

And before BA brings up the age difference, that didn't factor into my decision at all.


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## PauloCatarino

> Originally posted by <b>kflo</b>!
> 
> 
> t.r. dunn twice averaged 9.3 rpg.
> 
> a little less, but he was 6'3.


Hey! Don't forget Fat Lever, who at 6'3 twice averaged 9.3rpg!!!


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## kflo

> Originally posted by <b>PauloCatarino</b>!
> 
> 
> Hey! Don't forget Fat Lever, who at 6'3 twice averaged 9.3rpg!!!


i smell something fishy, can't put my finger on it...


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## PauloCatarino

> Originally posted by <b>kflo</b>!
> 
> 
> i smell something fishy, can't put my finger on it...


what? No love for Fat Lever?


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## mysterio

The Suns are an allstar team. Nash, Amare, and Marion all have my votes. I think people get frightened when the see Kirilenko's freakish blocked shot numbers and overrate him. Marion on the other hand is always underrated. They are very evenly matched, but Marion's supriority in rebounding gives him the edge.


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## RhettO

> Originally posted by <b>Amareca</b>!
> I am pretty sure you PMed me about getting on the list.
> 
> Heck there would be a lot more people on this list and embarassed right now if I wasn't too lazy to include everyone who sent a PM.


Honestly, I can guarantee I didn't. I've only sent one PM to anyone on this board and it was inquiring about how to get video off of a DVR to your comp. The ******* never replied. 
Besides, I wouldn't want to risk deleting my account over something so silly.


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## Tersk

> Originally posted by <b>Captain Obvious</b>!
> 
> 
> This pretty much sums it up...
> 
> And before BA brings up the age difference, that didn't factor into my decision at all.


I probably don't understand something, but Kirilenko is 3 years younger than Marion


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