# Mavs just got Kidd...Denver falls out of the playoff race, possibly...



## darth-horax (Nov 21, 2005)

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3244102

Man...the West is just impossible this year...


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## Sliccat (Oct 16, 2004)

use your head. This doesn't affect the Nuggets' playoff chances at all; dallas is already above them.

Furthermore, it actually makes the mavs a better head to head match-up for the nuggets. They now have nobody who can come close to guarding AI, and I'm not sold on the assumption that Kidd for harris and Diop (assuming they get stackhouse back) doesn't make them all that much better. Kidd is having an overrated season right now, he's obviously on the downside of his (great) career.


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## darth-horax (Nov 21, 2005)

I don't really expect the move to push us out of the playoffs, but it got somebody to respond, now, didn't it? 

No, I see Dallas getting Stack back and making another trade for a big man. Wihtout Diop, they are lacking big men. 

I actually think that Kidd is a great pickup for them, and will potentially take them all the way.


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## Your Answer (Jul 13, 2005)

darth-horax said:


> I don't really expect the move to push us out of the playoffs, but it got somebody to respond, now, didn't it?
> 
> No, I see Dallas getting Stack back and making another trade for a big man. Wihtout Diop, they are lacking big men.
> 
> I actually think that Kidd is a great pickup for them, and will potentially take them all the way.


Its not even possible to argue that this deal can push us out of the playoffs, it was never going to come down to either Dallas or Denver making the playoffs. Maybe if one of the lower seeds in the West then ok. But like Slic said Mavs were going to be in the playoffs regardless. Now maybe you can argue it decreases our chances of competing in the playoffs. But IMO it was already clear that we needed to make a trade for this years playoffs before this trade even happened.

Its time If Artest is our only option out there and we have to give up LK nd Najera than do it, we really dont have a choice.


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## Sliccat (Oct 16, 2004)

Melo's Answer said:


> Its not even possible to argue that this deal can push us out of the playoffs, it was never going to come down to either Dallas or Denver making the playoffs. Maybe if one of the lower seeds in the West then ok. But like Slic said Mavs were going to be in the playoffs regardless. Now maybe you can argue it decreases our chances of competing in the playoffs. But IMO it was already clear that we needed to make a trade for this years playoffs before this trade even happened.
> 
> Its time If Artest is our only option out there and we have to give up LK nd Najera than do it, we really dont have a choice.


I'm still torn between whether I'd rather have artest or salmons. no question, artest is better... but the man is nuts.


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## Your Answer (Jul 13, 2005)

Sliccat said:


> I'm still torn between whether I'd rather have artest or salmons. no question, artest is better... but the man is nuts.


Yah but you gotta take the risk. I dont even wanna hear salmons. Salmons isnt going to make this team significantly better, Artest has the chance too. With everything happening in the West it is now a chance I think we have to take.


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## Ruff Draft (Nov 21, 2004)

Denver has 3 all-stars already. They just need to make it work.


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## darth-horax (Nov 21, 2005)

They can't make it work...we don't have the right mix of players.
We were already looking for upgrades at PG and PF before all of the westward movements, but now it's looking imperative taht if we want to be competitive this year, we've got to change something.

I think I'd rather trade JR and Najera for Ron Artest rather than Kleiza and Najera...hard to say. JR is so young and explosive that he has a chance to see something special in the league if he grows up. Najera is a hustler, but he's a commodity since he's an expiring contract.

I just wish that we were bigger...I'd hate to lose two post players in one shot.


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## Ruff Draft (Nov 21, 2004)

Can Artest really make THE difference? He would be playing at the 2, because of the 3 being stacked in Denver. If he slid to the two that would put A.I. at the one and that doesn't always work perfectly. He could probably play the 4 too, but that's also well occupied right now.


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## Sliccat (Oct 16, 2004)

Ruff Draft said:


> Can Artest really make THE difference? He would be playing at the 2, because of the 3 being stacked in Denver. If he slid to the two that would put A.I. at the one and that doesn't always work perfectly. He could probably play the 4 too, but that's also well occupied right now.


The nuggets just can't compete without a good perimeter defender. Carter having to guard the Kobe Bryants of the league just won't work.


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

6'6 Guard/Forward 
14.5 PPG, 4.3 RPG, 2.9 APG, 1.2 SPG, .5 BLK, 50.5 FG%, 36 3P%, 82.5 FT%,
A guy capable of guarding wings. He has good handles. He is having a career year. You can get him for Najera's expiring contract. You dont have to mortgage your future. You dont have to give up Kleiza. You dont have to give up Nene. You dont have to give up JR Smith.
Or you can pick up a SF (when you already have Melo) with screws loose and give up talent like Kleiza or Nene etc. Not saying that Crazy Ronnie cant try and fit in at the two.
Everything I read is that the coach wants AI off the ball. Posters on this forum want him off the ball. 
You pick up Ron Artest and play him at shooting guard AI plays point. You pick up a guy like Salmons and he has handles to help with the those duties.
Thats a pretty convincing case for John Salmons. The only trade I can really understand giving up some of the names listed above is for Michael Redd.
The easiest move to make is for John Salmons. It doesn't hurt the Nuggets down the road and if he and AI can get along ok... its worth doing. Will it make a difference? It is at least worth a shot.
Everyone hear that? JJJOOOHHHNNN SSSAAALLLMMMOONNNSSS!!!!! :mob:


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## Sliccat (Oct 16, 2004)

nbanoitall said:


> 6'6 Guard/Forward
> 14.5 PPG, 4.3 RPG, 2.9 APG, 1.2 SPG, .5 BLK, 50.5 FG%, 36 3P%, 82.5 FT%,
> A guy capable of guarding wings. He has good handles. He is having a career year. You can get him for Najera's expiring contract. You dont have to mortgage your future. You dont have to give up Kleiza. You dont have to give up Nene. You dont have to give up JR Smith.
> Or you can pick up a SF (when you already have Melo) with screws loose and give up talent like Kleiza or Nene etc. Not saying that Crazy Ronnie cant try and fit in at the two.
> ...


Salmons may be able to bring the ball up the court, but he's not nearly as good a point as Carter, and Carter isn't even all that great. He's an sg/sf, and not a great passer even at those positions. Him or AI at point is pretty much a wash.

Most importantly, I don't see the kings giving him up for much less than artest. Najera's contract alone just isn't going to cut it. Say whatever you want about how logical it is, it doesn't matter. The Kings see him as a part of their rebuilding plan.

And finally, there haven't been any rumors of it happening. I just don't see it anywhere. Granted, that doesn't mean it won't happen, but there haven't been any signs of it.


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## Your Answer (Jul 13, 2005)

I want to puke everytime I hear his name. There is nothing anyone is going to change my mind after watching him in Philly. HE will never be on another AI team Im pretty sure and thankful of that. I dont mind AI at the point at all, we need that perimeter defender. Artest is the man we need. Point Blank!


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## darth-horax (Nov 21, 2005)

I don't mind Salmons' game, but on the Kings threads, they've posted tons of articles about how Salmons is NOT goign to be traded.
Let's get realistic here, we can only trade for who is available, and since Salmons isn't, let's not even talk about him.

I'd much rather get Mike Miller over ARtest, but if you can get Ron Ron, I think now's the time time.


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

considering the nuggets don't really run anything special. its not like you are asking salmons to run the triangle like Ron Harper or whatever. 
John Salmons not being available is funny. Thats true of Carmelo Anthony and Kevin Martin (to a little lesser degree). Nobody else in the league has even put an expiring contract on the table for him. I've never even heard the organization mention him let alone label him as untouchable.
My thoughts they might rather move Artest and get one of our young guys back, but they arent exactly in the drivers seat. If it takes a 2nd rounder I'd add it, but I think when it comes down to the deadline they will want that expiring contract (i would). I think we all know for a fact the Nuggets aren't even considering this because they are looking for a star like Artest or whatever.
I'd like the Nuggets to at least check with them on it. I think the deals gets done. But if it doesn't they need to move on to another deal with another team.
Salmons can bring the ball down and dump it down the Melo on the block or thing wing. Or hit AI off the ball. 
I will give the Anthony Carter comment credit though. He is better than I thought he is.
I'll throw something out there.
You do the trade with Sacramento. Najera (2nd rounder if needed) for Salmons and Williams
Then you turn around and do a deal Sterling will eat up. Corey Maggette and Sam Cassell for Nene, JR Smith, and Von Wafer
You just added Salmons, Maggette, and Cassell to joing Anthony Carter, Atkins, and Diawara in the backcourt.
Those are trades to support your two superstars.


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## RoddneyThaRippa (Jun 28, 2003)

Karl is a horrible coach.


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## darth-horax (Nov 21, 2005)

I like thte idea of that trade, but we'd be thin up front.

We'd have:
Camby
Kleiza
Ron Artest
Melo
AI
Atkins
AC
Cassell
Maggette
Hunter
Diawara
Williams
Kmart

Starting 5:
Camby 
KMart
Melo
Artest
AI

After Kmart, you'd have Justin Williams and Kleiza in the post...that's not necessariy a good thing. We'd be cutting off our nose to spite our face.

Dn't get me wrong, I'd love to get Maggette out here, Ron Artest too. I just dont' thin it's wise to move all your chips to outside play without adding a significant backup to KMart.

Now, if you could get Kenny thomas instead of Justin Williams, that might make more sense.


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## Zuca (Dec 4, 2003)

I would rather see a Najera+JR trade for Cassell, Aaron Williams and a 2nd rounder.


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## Sliccat (Oct 16, 2004)

Zuca said:


> I would rather see a Najera+JR trade for Cassell, Aaron Williams and a 2nd rounder.


Cassell doesn't really help that much. They're primary need is somebody who can defend the premier perimeter players out west.


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## Sliccat (Oct 16, 2004)

> I'll throw something out there.
> You do the trade with Sacramento. Najera (2nd rounder if needed) for Salmons and Williams
> Then you turn around and do a deal Sterling will eat up. Corey Maggette and Sam Cassell for Nene, JR Smith, and Von Wafer
> You just added Salmons, Maggette, and Cassell to joing Anthony Carter, Atkins, and Diawara in the backcourt.
> Those are trades to support your two superstars.


Now, that's even dumber than going for Zach randolf. I can't believe you're actuallly serious.



> John Salmons not being available is funny. Thats true of Carmelo Anthony and Kevin Martin (to a little lesser degree). Nobody else in the league has even put an expiring contract on the table for him. I've never even heard the organization mention him let alone label him as untouchable.


There you go again. Nobody said he was untouchable. We just said Najera won't cut it.


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## thaKEAF (Mar 8, 2004)

Denver HAS to make a move before the deadline. Salmons has put up nice numbers in Sacramento but I've never been a fan going back to his Philly days, I don't think he is the answer. Mike Miller would help with outside scoring, but he's pretty average on defense. Artest would be great IF Carmelo wasn't already at the 3. I'm kind of worried about pushing AI back to the 1 and putting Artest at the 2, but hell if I was a GM I'd take a gamble on it. I'm not worried about Artest's attitude at all, I think he'd be chill in Denver. If they could work magic and bring in Artest/Miller that would be great. If they don't do anything though, I'll be extremely pissed.


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## darth-horax (Nov 21, 2005)

Wonder if Melo could hold down the 4...what about Artest?


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## Sliccat (Oct 16, 2004)

darth-horax said:


> Wonder if Melo could hold down the 4...what about Artest?


Full time, no. But for short periods or against certain teams, eithe is ok.


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## Your Answer (Jul 13, 2005)

darth-horax said:


> Wonder if Melo could hold down the 4...what about Artest?


he def COULD. but I dont think he likes playing the 4 he doesnt seem happy when he has to go bang underneath.


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## thaKEAF (Mar 8, 2004)

I was thinking that Artest could start at the 4, he's tough enough but I dunno if he could do it for four quarters.


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## Your Answer (Jul 13, 2005)

thaKEAF said:


> I was thinking that Artest could start at the 4, he's tough enough but I dunno if he could do it for four quarters.


I think by doing that you take away the whole positive of bringing him over in a trade. We need a perimeter defender and he is a great one. That is the whole reason for wanting Artest at least for me.


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## thaKEAF (Mar 8, 2004)

Melo's Answer said:


> I think by doing that you take away the whole positive of bringing him over in a trade. We need a perimeter defender and he is a great one. That is the whole reason for wanting Artest at least for me.


Good point. Just trying to throw out ideas that would stop AI from moving to the point, but it's looking like he'd have to for the team to use Artist to the fullest.


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## Your Answer (Jul 13, 2005)

thaKEAF said:


> Good point. Just trying to throw out ideas that would stop AI from moving to the point, but it's looking like he'd have to for the team to use Artist to the fullest.


I actually have no problem with AI at the point, I actually perfer him there unless we get a new point gaurd. Dont get me wrong AC has been great for us but he should be coming off the bench


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