# Raps/Clippers Trade......



## MVP_23 (Jan 29, 2006)

Charlie Villaneueva, Jose Calderon, 1st rounder (5th) for Shaun Livingston, Corey Maggette (Note: Villanueva plays 3)


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## Free Arsenal (Nov 8, 2004)

Jose Calderon?

HELLL NOOO!!!

Give us Bosh instead of Calderon and maybe you might have a deal, but other than that.... hell no!


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## PAIDNFULL23 (Jul 9, 2005)

Get the **** out of here with that ****


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## pmac34 (Feb 10, 2006)

Free Arsenal said:


> Jose Calderon?
> 
> HELLL NOOO!!!
> 
> Give us Bosh instead of Calderon and maybe you might have a deal, but other than that.... hell no!


this trade is way better for la than it is for t.o.


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## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

Terrible trade for the Clippers in the off season with radman, cassell unsigned, and livvy being traded. No way does it happen. 

Maggs for villanueva AND the pick the clippers might consider, but i still dont think they would do it.


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## anniebananerz (Jan 8, 2006)

pmac34 said:


> this trade is way better for la than it is for t.o.


 Agreed.


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## Quasi-Quasar (Jul 18, 2002)

anniebananerz said:


> Agreed.


Yeah, sure it is, if ballscientist were the Clipps' GM ... Villaneueva is good, but Maggette is worth more than him, and you can f-ing forget about Livingston for 1st in a worthless draft and a PG slower than most PFs. In terms of raw value, Bosh may or may not even be that high in most GM's minds... Bosh is good, but he will always have physical limitations... Livingston on the other hand is a 6-7 true PG and is finally putting together some great games... But still, ballscientist would like to talk to you, he's willing to trade a bag of potato chips for Shaq.

And MVP23, note: Villaneueva rarely played the 3, and struggles mightily there on D (which is all that matters in position placement)... 

I suppose though that you think Morris Peterson is worth someone of Ray Allen's caliber


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## qross1fan (Dec 28, 2004)

Maggette > Villanueva

Livingston > Calderon + 1st


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## universal! (Mar 5, 2006)

It always cracks me up when fans of certain teams propose insane one-sided trades. And they're serious too.


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## Free Arsenal (Nov 8, 2004)

I just hope we re-sign Cassell this off season, and keep Mags. I think Singleton can shoot the three, and his role can improve next season if we get rid of radman.


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## MVP_23 (Jan 29, 2006)

CV started playing 3 from febuary(when he was 1st put in the startin lineups) to end of season and he averaged about 17 ppg n 9 rebz as a 3


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## MVP_23 (Jan 29, 2006)

To GRICHFAN: basically you're saying that u rather have livingston over Calderon and say RUDY GAY(5THPICK)? ur ripped


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## B_&_B (Feb 19, 2004)

qrich1fan said:


> Maggette > Villanueva


Thats a close call IMO. Villanueva is much younger than the injury prone Maggette and Villanueva was pretty impressive last year, especially for a rookie.


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## Quasi-Quasar (Jul 18, 2002)

BEER&BASKETBALL said:


> Thats a close call IMO. Villanueva is much younger than the injury prone Maggette and Villanueva was pretty impressive last year, especially for a rookie.


But the guy can't play SF defensively, regardless...Although neither can Maggette these days. But Charlie just doesn't have the lateral mobility to play SF. There's a reason they lost as many games as they did.

And, MVP23, yes, Livingston is faaaaar more valuable than Mr. Passive.

edit: And un case you were unaware, Livingston was the 4th pick in a very strong draft, while the pick in question is the 5th in a draft that is going to be epically weak... Livingston lost his rookie year to injury, but has shown flashes of brilliance. Rudy Gay is a good shooter, and a decent shotblocker, but that's pretty much all he does well...


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## qross1fan (Dec 28, 2004)

I'd rather have Livingston & Maggette then Villanueva & Gay & Calderon. Clippers are stacked at SF as it is with Maggette, Singleton, Korolev, Radmanovic, Mobley who can play there, Livingston who can play there. No point in adding more SF's and stunting Korolev's development and growth and cutting more time down for Jumpin James Singleton. I'd rather trade Maggette with the Minny pick and the Clippers 2nd rounder this year for Gerald Wallace and the Bobcats First Rounder Protected Top 10 Next Year.


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## NOBLE (Apr 10, 2005)

That deal is trash, though. Shaun Livingston = bonafide truth. No way he's going to be traded in a deal like that.


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## leidout (Jul 13, 2005)

I"m really shocked that clipper fans are even thinking about breaking up this team.


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## MVP_23 (Jan 29, 2006)

Oh my gosh, are you guys serious? YOU RATHER HAVE SHAUN LIVINGSTON ,MAGGETTE THAN CHARLIE VILLANUEVA, RUDY GAY, AND CALDERON? i dont think y'all watch basketball


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## Free Arsenal (Nov 8, 2004)

MVP_23 said:


> Oh my gosh, are you guys serious? YOU RATHER HAVE SHAUN LIVINGSTON ,MAGGETTE THAN CHARLIE VILLANUEVA, RUDY GAY, AND CALDERON? i dont think y'all watch basketball


Or maybe you just don't watch the Clippers.


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## Weasel (Oct 18, 2003)

MVP_23 said:


> Oh my gosh, are you guys serious? YOU RATHER HAVE SHAUN LIVINGSTON ,MAGGETTE THAN CHARLIE VILLANUEVA, RUDY GAY, AND CALDERON? i dont think y'all watch basketball



I think we do.
As well as we know Livingston is untouchable.


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## paperclip (Mar 24, 2006)

MVP_23 said:


> Oh my gosh, are you guys serious? YOU RATHER HAVE SHAUN LIVINGSTON ,MAGGETTE THAN CHARLIE VILLANUEVA, RUDY GAY, AND CALDERON? i dont think y'all watch basketball


Sell us, don't insult us...


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## DaFranchise (Jun 29, 2005)

MVP_23 said:


> Oh my gosh, are you guys serious? YOU RATHER HAVE SHAUN LIVINGSTON ,MAGGETTE THAN CHARLIE VILLANUEVA, RUDY GAY, AND CALDERON? i dont think y'all watch basketball


Villanueva had a nice year but we have no need for him. Calderon is a nice player but Livvy is going to be a superstar and he is untouchable. As for Rudy Gay did you watch him at all this year? He was nothing special and he was non-existent in the tournament. It was a good effort but you are not even close.


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## CLIPSFAN89 (Oct 12, 2005)

MVP_23 said:


> Oh my gosh, are you guys serious? YOU RATHER HAVE SHAUN LIVINGSTON ,MAGGETTE THAN CHARLIE VILLANUEVA, RUDY GAY, AND CALDERON? i dont think y'all watch basketball


Get out of here, You think they are so good then why don't you guys keep them? What has Rudy Gay done to make him such a great player? This year's draft is the worst draft in recent history. Jose Calderon? please. 

Livingston = LA's Future = Untouchable


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## Kapt Clipper (Jul 9, 2005)

MVP_23 said:


> Oh my gosh, are you guys serious? YOU RATHER HAVE SHAUN LIVINGSTON ,MAGGETTE THAN CHARLIE VILLANUEVA, RUDY GAY, AND CALDERON? i dont think y'all watch basketball


we're in the second round of the playoffs...where are the raptors?


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## MVP_23 (Jan 29, 2006)

To KaptClipper: Ask Me that next year


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## Quasi-Quasar (Jul 18, 2002)

MVP_23 said:


> To KaptClipper: Ask Me that next year


Do you mean, the Raptors are going to have an even higher pick :laugh:... The Raptors have systemic issues... Starting with the fact that their two best players play the same position and neither adequately defends another.


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## qross1fan (Dec 28, 2004)

MVP_23 said:


> To KaptClipper: Ask Me that next year


 To you . . . tell me next year you'd prefer having Calderon, Villa and Gay over Livingston and Maggette when Shaun should have #'s like 12/8/5 at the age of 21.


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## Team Mao (Dec 17, 2005)

Clippers fans are awfully cocky for a group that hasn't been in the playoffs for how many years? MVP 23, to offer Villanueva and our 5th for a couple of players who can't manage to play close to a full season is a very risky move, and a move that I would be hesitant to make. They are very talented but until they can prove that they're not made of glass, then I would avoid them unless the deal was a steal, which this one isn't. Villanueva is younger, healthier than Maggette and extremely versatile on offense being able to play 3 positions and I'm sure that the 5th pick in the draft can give us a solid player who hopefully can play more than 60 games a season.

Again, I'm not questioning Maggette and Livingston's talent. But even Clippers fans would have to admit that neither of those two can manage to stay healthy for a full season.


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## Weasel (Oct 18, 2003)

Team Mao said:


> Clippers fans are awfully cocky for a group that hasn't been in the playoffs for how many years?


Raptor fans seem cocky on making up trades that won't happen. 


I say Bosh for Korolev, salaries match.


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## Team Mao (Dec 17, 2005)

Weasel said:


> Raptor fans seem cocky on making up trades that won't happen.
> 
> 
> I say Bosh for Korolev, salaries match.


Great comeback Weasel.


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## Weasel (Oct 18, 2003)

Team Mao said:


> Great comeback Weasel.


Thanks, I try.


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## qross1fan (Dec 28, 2004)

Weasel said:


> Raptor fans seem cocky on making up trades that won't happen.
> 
> 
> I say Bosh for Korolev, salaries match.


No way, Korolev is younger then Bosh and can potentially play 4 positions. I mean, isn't that what Villanueva can do vs Maggette? More versatile? Oh yeah, Yaroslav can also bury the tre'. 

I always thought it was the Laker and Knick fans that would overvalue there players, but damn at these Raptor fans.


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## Team Mao (Dec 17, 2005)

qrich1fan said:


> No way, Korolev is younger then Bosh and can potentially play 4 positions. I mean, isn't that what Villanueva can do vs Maggette? More versatile? Oh yeah, Yaroslav can also bury the tre'.
> 
> I always thought it was the Laker and Knick fans that would overvalue there players, but damn at these Raptor fans.


Overvalue players? Clipper fans have already inducted Livingston into the Hall of Fame for christ's sake! 

I brought up a reasonable point about Livingston and Maggette being incredibly injury prone players (deny it and you're lying) and that being the reason that I would be hesitant to trade Villanueva and a top 5 to get them. Never questioned their talent but simply durability.

Want to talk talent? Maggette wasn't able to match Villanueva's rookie numbers until after his third year in the league. Right now Charlie already has more versatility in his game than Maggette. Ask any GM in the league if they would trade Villanueva for Maggette and you'll get the same answer 29 times.

Livingston's got loads of talent and he's tall, but until he can play close to a full season and put his talent to use (oh and learn to shoot), then I wouldn't risk a high lotto pick to get him. And looking at his numbers, he really didn't shine last year or this year (5.8ppg, 4.5apg in 25mpg), looks like a lock for the HOF for sure.

Yeah, it's Rap fans who overrate players, sure. Enjoy the playoffs this year, because unless Sam comes back again next year, you won't be making it again.


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## arcade_rida (Jun 23, 2003)

Sorry but a lot of people in this thread are crazy. Bosh has limits? Bosh shot one of the best FG%'s in the league and will be a top 15 player in the NBA when his time is up. Trust me in Gm's mind a lot of people would love to have Bosh on their team easily. In 2 minutes(in the 4th quarter) when losing by 5 or less Bosh shot 52.4 percent so calm your bum. Anyways, this trade is horrible and Maggette alone probably wouldnt get that package but you got to understand the Rpators wouldnt trade Maggette for 5 and Charlie either. (However, I dont think the Raptors would do this trade either. Maggette for 5 and Charlie)Sure Maggette is better then Charlie but I think the Raptors can get a better player with the 5th and Charlie because there are many teams out their desperately looking to trade their stars and rebuild. However, I agree the Clippers GM wouldnt do this deal in a mile. One thing I dont like though is people are saying defense wtf.. Who in the NBA plays hard defense? Charlie can block shots and he is actually alright guarding SF's in the league. I have watched Charlie for 82 games and trust me he is an alright defender for a rookie. As well, the Raptors have systematic issues? Whoever said that is crazy. Don't people say the Clippers have issues because they never want to sign anybody on their team? Please the Raptors did a good job in drafting Charlie. They easily can both play on the floor with no issues. Bosh + Charlie are not great defenders but they try and they are going to get better, and I dont see anything wrong with that. If thats something bad then I would love to have that problem.


O yea, and I don't value my players highly and I am a Raptors fan. What people dont get on this board is every single team has their homers. I mean yes their are homer raptors fans, but their are homer clippers fans.. look at this thread. All I am trying to say is that every team has their homers. This trade is horrible and any raptors fan who thinks the Raptors are the only team in this trade thats giving up a lot then they are crazy. 

In the first part I was talking about the Charlie + 5 for Maggette that for sure would be too much for the Raptors as we are trying to mold are team and I dont think Maggette would be the right player for the Raps to target if they were going to make a trade like this.

However, the Charlie + 5 + Calderon for Livingston and Maggette? That I agree would be a big time steal for the Raptors and the Clippers GM would be fired in a second. I mean any good fan would know that the Raptors would win in this trade espeically if Maggette can stay healthy. Livingston is already a great defensive presences and a great point guard. So I fully agree with the point some clippers fans have made that this is a crazy trade for them.


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## arcade_rida (Jun 23, 2003)

O yea and for the posters who dont think bosh is that great in Gm's eyes..




speedythief said:


> That's an interesting stat, thanks ar.
> 
> 
> Few more on Bosh:
> ...


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## arcade_rida (Jun 23, 2003)

spongyfungy said:


> I was watching tonights game and this showed up.



And yes of course I would trade Bosh + teh whole team for Brand :biggrin:


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## MVP_23 (Jan 29, 2006)

To KaptClipper: Once again, ask me that nex year. as said, u guyz r cocky for a team dat jus made da playoffs once in many years. chillax, we have a better future then you guys do with a lotto pick (top 5)(Rudy gays Aldridge, Morrison,...Potential Stars) caproom(ability to afford n e one in da free agency includin ben wallace), The Rising Core ( Chris Bosh, Charlie V, Joey Graham, Mo Pete), good trading bait in mike james (S&T) and The GM of they year a year ago we gonna go offf in the off season you guyz watch nex year i will be askin you guys "raptors r in da playoffs, where are the clippers" (if sam Cass. doesnt resign wid y'all)


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## Quasi-Quasar (Jul 18, 2002)

MVP_23 said:


> To KaptClipper: Once again, ask me that nex year. as said, u guyz r cocky for a team dat jus made da playoffs once in many years. chillax, we have a better future then you guys do with a lotto pick (top 5)(Rudy gays Aldridge, Morrison,...Potential Stars) caproom(ability to afford n e one in da free agency includin ben wallace), The Rising Core ( Chris Bosh, Charlie V, Joey Graham, Mo Pete), good trading bait in mike james (S&T) and The GM of they year a year ago we gonna go offf in the off season you guyz watch nex year i will be askin you guys "raptors r in da playoffs, where are the clippers" (if sam Cass. doesnt resign wid y'all)


:laugh: at a top 5 pick in this year's draft having star potential... This is a terrible draft... Joey Graham is a better player than Mr. Passive and Aldridge will likely be #1 at the end of the day (despite having no amazing potential)... The bottom line is, Livingston would unquestionably be the #1 pick this year... He's a superior player to all of them, and Villanueva, etc. Maggette is still more valuable than Villanueva right now. That may change, but Villanueva is going to have a hard time keeping working IMO and I repeat, yet again, that he cannot guard SFs (and don't make the lame excuse 'nobody plays D')... Take your own advise and "chillax." The Raptors stunk it up in the EC, enough said... And BTW to the other guy, Bosh is absolutely limited by his body. He will never be able to go inside against bigger players and take the pounding night after night... Right now, he plays drifting like Rashard Lewis.... Even after Gasol add a ton of weight he still gets pushed around inside, and he has a bigger, wider frame to start with. Bosh is good, but he's not even close to as good as you see it... And why on Earth would you be whining and protesting that 'this trade benefits the Clippers' if you so badly want it... :laugh: Transparency.


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## arcade_rida (Jun 23, 2003)

TheGoods said:


> :laugh: at a top 5 pick in this year's draft having star potential... This is a terrible draft... Joey Graham is a better player than Mr. Passive and Aldridge will likely be #1 at the end of the day (despite having no amazing potential)... The bottom line is, Livingston would unquestionably be the #1 pick this year... He's a superior player to all of them, and Villanueva, etc. Maggette is still more valuable than Villanueva right now. That may change, but Villanueva is going to have a hard time keeping working IMO and I repeat, yet again, that he cannot guard SFs (and don't make the lame excuse 'nobody plays D')... Take your own advise and "chillax." The Raptors stunk it up in the EC, enough said... And BTW to the other guy, Bosh is absolutely limited by his body. He will never be able to go inside against bigger players and take the pounding night after night... Right now, he plays drifting like Rashard Lewis.... Even after Gasol add a ton of weight he still gets pushed around inside, and he has a bigger, wider frame to start with. Bosh is good, but he's not even close to as good as you see it... *And why on Earth would you be whining and protesting that 'this trade benefits the Clippers' if you so badly want it... :laugh: Transparency.*



Of course we stunk it up who is not saying that? We sucked just like the Clippers were a couple of years ago but then they turned it around. Lame excuse nobody plays d? They dont only when the playoffs come around but even still nobody tries hard. Charlie can play alright d again I watched him for 82 games.. how many games have you seen Charlie in? Bosh is good? Of course he made the all-star game. I never said he was going to be in the hall of fame because he isnt. However, if you guys know how good Livingston is then I think Bosh is very good and will be a 20/10 type player. Again I even addmitted that we are going to need another option to be successful becuase Bosh isnt the time of power forward like TD, Dwight howard, Brand, Shaq, + others.. All teams who have those times of strong back to the basket players always succeed and with Bosh I know for a fact we need another type of all-star in order to succed. Is this about me? I hope not because I said the 5th pick, Claderon and Charlie for Maggette and Livingston is horrible for the clippers no doubt in my mind the Raptors would jump over it. However, Charlie is a better player then you give him credit in my opinion or has seen. Charlie has diffcult player powerful SF's but not the quick ones not as much in my opinion.


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## arcade_rida (Jun 23, 2003)

TheGoods said:


> And BTW to the other guy, Bosh is absolutely limited by his body.* He will never be able to go inside against bigger players and take the pounding night after night... *


Thats how I know for a fact though that is a flaw. You havent see much of Bosh at all. He can take the pounding thats one of his greatest assets. The guy plays Eric Dampier for god sake. In his first season the guy was garurding Jahdi White and Fortson. Bosh can take the pounding better then his bodu would suggest. Now Im not gonna lie I have not seen more then 10 games of Livingston however, I love his game and he willl be one of the best Pg's in the league in a couple of years and Im not scared to admitt that. I respect your opinion but you are one of the only posters who doesn't like how good Bosh could be. But again I will just be glad to see how much better Bosh gets in 3 years after all the guy was an all-star in 3 years. Not saying he is god but he is pretty good for a guy everyone said was too skinny 3 years ago and look at him now.


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## Kapt Clipper (Jul 9, 2005)

MVP_23 said:


> To KaptClipper: Once again, ask me that nex year. as said, u guyz r cocky for a team dat jus made da playoffs once in many years. chillax, we have a better future then you guys do with a lotto pick (top 5)(Rudy gays Aldridge, Morrison,...Potential Stars) caproom(ability to afford n e one in da free agency includin ben wallace), The Rising Core ( Chris Bosh, Charlie V, Joey Graham, Mo Pete), good trading bait in mike james (S&T) and The GM of they year a year ago we gonna go offf in the off season you guyz watch nex year i will be askin you guys "raptors r in da playoffs, where are the clippers" (if sam Cass. doesnt resign wid y'all)


MVP23...cool your jets guy!...i was responding to your comment "i dont think y'all watch basketball"...obviously i do because i stated a fact...the clippers are in the playoffs...don't take things personally...i hope the raps do well in the future cuz it's good to have a changing of the guard...in the meantime RELAX!


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## Quasi-Quasar (Jul 18, 2002)

arcade_rida said:


> Thats how I know for a fact though that is a flaw. You havent see much of Bosh at all. He can take the pounding thats one of his greatest assets. The guy plays Eric Dampier for god sake. In his first season the guy was garurding Jahdi White and Fortson. Bosh can take the pounding better then his bodu would suggest. Now Im not gonna lie I have not seen more then 10 games of Livingston however, I love his game and he willl be one of the best Pg's in the league in a couple of years and Im not scared to admitt that. I respect your opinion but you are one of the only posters who doesn't like how good Bosh could be. But again I will just be glad to see how much better Bosh gets in 3 years after all the guy was an all-star in 3 years. Not saying he is god but he is pretty good for a guy everyone said was too skinny 3 years ago and look at him now.


Do you have an issue reading... At no point did I express any doubt that Bosh is, or will be a star. He is however absolutely limited by his slight frame... And you're confusing being adequate inside with thriving inside. If Bosh had protection in his lineup he'd be able to play the high post and guard the lesser offensive player, like Duncan does... It's plain wrong to say that there aren't limiting factors...


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## arcade_rida (Jun 23, 2003)

TheGoods said:


> Do you have an issue reading... At no point did I express any doubt that Bosh is, or will be a star. He is however absolutely limited by his slight frame... And you're confusing being adequate inside with thriving inside. If Bosh had protection in his lineup he'd be able to play the high post and guard the lesser offensive player, like Duncan does... It's plain wrong to say that there aren't limiting factors...



Naw, I can read. Thanks though sir.


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