# Redick signs offer sheet? 3 yrs, $20 M



## King Joseus (May 26, 2003)

> Later in the evening, sources told ESPN The Magazine's Ric Bucher that Chicago offered restricted free agent Redick a three-year, $20 million deal. The Magic have seven days to match the contract.


http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/nba/news/story?id=5368470


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## Dancon7 (Jan 13, 2005)

*ESPN.com: Bulls go after Redick*

Shooters of the world unite!


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## powaqqatsi (Jun 25, 2010)

Awesome. I'm liking the haste. Korver and Reddick and I guess, Asik. I like our chances vs Miami. Defese might be a question area but that's where Thibo comes in. 

Just get another big and a vet point guard and I think we're good to go.


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

Redick's actually a pretty solid defender. He has T-Rex arms, but I wouldn't worry about his contributions on defense at all.


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## l0st1 (Jul 2, 2010)

Great offer. And either way I'm happy with this. If the Bulls can get him he fits in perfectly at SG, probably starting too. He's an underrated defender, and actually does multiple things well. And everyone knows about his shooting touch.


On the other side, if the Magic match the offer I'm liking their ability to get back to the ECF this year.


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## TwinkieTowers (Jul 16, 2002)

Guess I was fairly accurate in my offer sheet prediction (off by one year).

Matching the offer would put the Magic's payroll to around $90 million and would easily keep them in the luxury tax for the next three years.


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## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

I like it, even though it means THREE dookies starting for us. At least I'll like one of them. Reddick is the only Dookie I ever liked, since I really got into the whole UNC vs Duke thing (before that I kinda liked Grant Hill and Bobby Hurley but didn't know much back then lol).


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

The Magic almost have to match it, their whole offense is based on the post kick out. Rashad Lewis is not getting any better, they will miss Reddick's shooting if they dont re sign him.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

I would have preferred Josh Childress but oh well.


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## Salvaged Ship (Jul 10, 2002)

Korver 5 mil, Redick 6.7 mil. Would still leave us 6-7 mil to spend? 

Thing I am not liking is our D. I know of Thibodeau's rep on D, but you still need good defenders. Noah good defender, Deng pretty good defender, Boozer average at best. Remainder not looking good. Redick apparently not a bad defender, but looks to me like a poor version of Kirk. Undersized shooting guard, shoots a bit better than Kirk, not as good a defender.

If We still had Kirk I would have thought we matched up pretty well with the three women in fantasy land South Beach. Deng has always played Leboob as good as anyone, Kirk always played DWipe well, and Noah or Boozer could hold their own against Christina Bosh. As it stands we would have Redick/Korver/Rose on DWipe if Redick signs. Ugh... We need a better starting shooting guard in my opinion.


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## BDMcGee (May 12, 2006)

I like the signing a lot. I've been as big of a Duke hater as anyone over the years, and I despised Redick when he played there, but I have a lot of respect for him as a player. I think he's very underrated. As some of the guys have posted, he's a very solid defender and I also feel that he's a better athlete than people give him credit for. He can get his own shot better than people think and as we know, he's one of the best shooters in the game. The thing I probably like about him the most though is his competitiveness. He has a killer instinct and he gives his all every possession, which is hard to find in the NBA these days. We'll see if the Bulls are able to bring him into the fold, but if they can, I feel that he would be a great addition. Although the Bulls missed out on the superstars in free agency, they're doing a good job of bringing in high character, lunch-pail type guys who are unselfish, low maintenance and are team oriented. While it hasn't been the offseason most people envisioned, it's been a good one for the Bulls up to this point.


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## Salvaged Ship (Jul 10, 2002)

Looking on the net it is widely anticipated Magic will match. Stan Van Gundy expressed it was the intention of the Magic to match any off Redick gets.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

At least this forces the Magic's hand, to make a move within the next seven days... If we dont make a move soon, I expect us to just re-sign JJ and call it a summer. We'll see tho.


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## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

BDMcGee said:


> I like the signing a lot. I've been as big of a Duke hater as anyone over the years, and I despised Redick when he played there, but I have a lot of respect for him as a player. I think he's very underrated. As some of the guys have posted, he's a very solid defender and I also feel that he's a better athlete than people give him credit for. He can get his own shot better than people think and as we know, he's one of the best shooters in the game. The thing I probably like about him the most though is his competitiveness. He has a killer instinct and he gives his all every possession, which is hard to find in the NBA these days. We'll see if the Bulls are able to bring him into the fold, but if they can, I feel that he would be a great addition. Although the Bulls missed out on the superstars in free agency, they're doing a good job of bringing in high character, lunch-pail type guys who are unselfish, low maintenance and are team oriented. While it hasn't been the offseason most people envisioned, it's been a good one for the Bulls up to this point.


I agree with pretty much all of that, although there was always something about Reddick that just made him impossible for me to hate, dookie and all. I wanted to move up and draft him instead of Sefolosha in that draft too. I really like the idea of adding 2 pure shooters like Korver and Reddick, as I feel shooters like that are pretty much a necessity for a championship team. Paxson, Kerr, gotta have em. I would've preferred Lee to Boozer, but oh well. It will be interesting to see how Boozer fits in, and how Lee does in another system, that's for sure.


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## SWIFTSLICK (Aug 22, 2009)

Nice move but lets not get ahead of ourselves here. The Magic could very well match the offer. Which I fully expect considering how well he played when called upon in the post season.


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## Bulls42 (Jul 22, 2002)

I agree with Salvaged Ship.
Korver, Reddick..... where's the D? One outside shooting defensive liability is enough. Defense wins championships. TT wants to build this team around defense, no?
I hope the Magic match this offer. 
At the 2, bring in a lock-down defender like Tony Allen, or a very good defender who's offensive game is improving quickly, Wesley Matthews. 
At the 3, I'd try to bring trade for Moute from Milwaukee. I don't see James Johnson being very useful.
Asik is not the answer at the 5. How about a bad-*ss shot blocking center? How about Joel Anthony? he averaged 4 blocks per 48 minutes last year.
That's how we are going to beat the Heat. Not by signing redundant players (Korver and Reddick).


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## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

Well, a shooter is a shooter. They can learn D, and Reddick isn't a bad defender. But a defender with no offensive game, that's a bit harder. Either you can shoot or you can't, and it'll take years and years to develop a shot, if they ever can get one.


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## King Joseus (May 26, 2003)

Bulls42 said:


> I agree with Salvaged Ship.
> Korver, Reddick..... where's the D? One outside shooting defensive liability is enough. Defense wins championships. TT wants to build this team around defense, no?
> I hope the Magic match this offer.
> At the 2, bring in a lock-down defender like Tony Allen, or a very good defender who's offensive game is improving quickly, Wesley Matthews.
> ...


Joel Anthony will be on the heat. Moute won't be traded by the Bucks in any deal we can offer (and they wouldn't want him on a division rival either). I spoke on Matthews likely staying in Utah in the other thread.

As for Redick being matched, lots of folks think that's going to happen. So you've got that going your way at least.


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## FrankTheTank (Jun 25, 2004)

morrow sign with NJ for 3 years $12 mil. I would have prefered him over JJ.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Orlando will match


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## Bulls rock your socks (Jun 29, 2006)

get ronnie brewer. hes a pretty good defender.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

Wait so Redick gets 6ish where Mike Miller is about to sign for 5ish? I love the NBA...


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## mvP to the Wee (Jul 14, 2007)

Dre™ said:


> Wait so Redick gets 6ish where Mike Miller is about to sign for 5ish? I love the NBA...


Miller loves Lebron so he's gonna take a pay cut to play there.


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

Can we front load this contract? It would put a lot more pressure on the Magic if the 20 mil was spread out like this (10,7,3)

And we gave korver 5 this year. Not sure what we gave Asik but it's probably like 2. 

We had about 19 mil in cap space before we signed any of these three guys. I think signing all of them would release about 1.5 mil in cap holds.

So that would still leave us about 3.5 mil for one more FA. Or 4 mil for 2 FA's. Should be enough to adequetley fill out this team. And I think Reddick would be a very nice addition. And Front Loading the contract like that would be nice for when Rose needs to get resigned.

It's proabably not even an option. Just thinking out loud.


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## BenDengGo (Feb 1, 2004)

if the magic match, i hope the bulls can swing a sign and trade for morrow with the warriors.


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

I realize that Orlando might match this offer. But...

I just looked at Orlando's roster. 

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/orlando.htm

And they already have a payroll 80.7 mil. And that's not even factoring in Duhon (didnt he get like 3 or 4 mil) or Reddick. So if they match this offer they are going to have at least a 90 mil payroll? (and could easily be about a 95 mil payroll if we frontload the reddick deal a bit, and they sign a couple vet min's) Crazy for a team that can't really be considered a legit contender. At least not IMO.

I say we frontload this deal as much as possible. Even if we can only get it to 8 mil for year one. That would force their owner to pay 16 mil just for this season (X2 for luxury tax) to have Reddick on their team. And they already have: Carter, Barnes, and Pietrus that can play the 2. Their owner must have real deep pockets if he will match this offer.


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## PerfectionAJ (Feb 15, 2010)

Hopefully the magic won't match the deal since they have enough shooters as it is, would be a good addition to the team if we can secure Reddick to go along with Korver. If not then I guess we try and put an offer on the table to Morrow before he seals the rumored move to the nets.


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## Salvaged Ship (Jul 10, 2002)

McGraw says the first year of the deal is 7 mil. Would cost the Magic 14 mil if they match. He also said something about they could possibly let Carter go to sign Redick. I find it hard to believe they would agree to pay 14 mil next year for JJ Redick.

Then again, they paid a fortune to match that offer for Gortat ( 6 mil per year x 2 luxury tax) . Guy averaged 3.6 pts and 4.2 rebs for the cost of 12 mil to them. That is dumb, so they may be stupid enough to match the Redick offer.


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## BenDengGo (Feb 1, 2004)

that rashard lewis deal sure keeps them in cap hell for the next 3 years.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

Salvaged Ship said:


> Korver 5 mil, Redick 6.7 mil. Would still leave us 6-7 mil to spend?
> 
> Thing I am not liking is our D. I know of Thibodeau's rep on D, but you still need good defenders. Noah good defender, Deng pretty good defender, Boozer average at best. Remainder not looking good. Redick apparently not a bad defender, but looks to me like a poor version of Kirk. Undersized shooting guard, shoots a bit better than Kirk, not as good a defender.
> 
> If We still had Kirk I would have thought we matched up pretty well with the three women in fantasy land South Beach. Deng has always played Leboob as good as anyone, Kirk always played DWipe well, and Noah or Boozer could hold their own against Christina Bosh. As it stands we would have Redick/Korver/Rose on DWipe if Redick signs. Ugh... We need a better starting shooting guard in my opinion.


Good defense starts from the inside-out, IMO.

Noah, Gibson, Deng, and Asik form what should be a very strong defense in the paint. Boozer is good to have too b/c he can muscle people around at the very least while the other guys focus on shotblocking. It's a good balance.

I am in the camp that D-Rose will seriously improve his D this season. He already looked much better in Year 2 and under Thibs he will be put in position to succeed. 

However, I do agree we have 1 gaping hole at SG. This will haunt us when we play the Heat, which is really who we should be gunning for. Gotta have someone who can tackle Wade. That's really why I wish we could get Hinrich back. Hinrich & Deng can defend Wade/Lebron better than any combo in the league.


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## Merk (May 24, 2006)

I dont get this move, isnt he the same player as Korver? Why not give this deal to Morrow?


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## Bulls42 (Jul 22, 2002)

Tony Allen (lock-down defender with no offense game)-unrestricted
Wes Matthews (very good defender with emerging offensive game)-restricted
Ronnie Brewer (very good defender with limited offensive game)-unrestricted


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## Bulls42 (Jul 22, 2002)

I'll take it one step further, aren't Korver, Reddick and Morrow the same player?


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

I like the signing. This is going to make Rose's life a lot easier and Reddick is a solid defender. There is no downside to this deal.


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## Merk (May 24, 2006)

Bulls42 said:


> I'll take it one step further, aren't Korver, Reddick and Morrow the same player?


True, but i thought Morrow at least may have some defensive upside just needed a good D coach to get him there


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

I'm pretty sure they have someone else in mind in case Reddick goes back to Orlando. Its a weird thing to do right now because they could be slowed down if the Magic take a full week to decide to keep him or not, I would have rather have them go after a couple of other 2's out there before going the Reddick route especially after just getting Korver.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

Oh, you better believe Otis WILL take all 6 days... lol


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

Blue Magic said:


> Oh, you better believe Otis WILL take all 6 days... lol


I dont see why he would not, its being able to legally block another opponent from signing other guy's. 

I would have tried Brewer and maybe look at a couple of trades before attempting to mess with Restricted free agents, heck I would have rather them go after Peanut head if they were looking at a restricted FA.


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## Salvaged Ship (Jul 10, 2002)

Looking around on the net and the chatter is they will match the offer. I don't think he is what we need, and I won't be too dissapointed if this happens.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

Considering you guys just got Korver at a fair price, i dont understand why you want to overpay for JJ. My 1st thoughts were that Chicago did this, in part, to screw Orlando into overpaying... But whatever, we'll see. It's funny that most Chicago fans seem to not even want him, lol.


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## TwinkieTowers (Jul 16, 2002)

Merk said:


> True, but i thought Morrow at least may have some defensive upside just needed a good D coach to get him there


I can only think of one reason why you think Morrow has more defensive upside than Redick (it rhymes with "tack").

And, just like with David Lee, you have to take Morrow's numbers with a grain of salt due to the offensive system he played in. APBRmetric numbers have shown that Redick is more efficient than Morrow at both ends of the floor.

Of course, Morrow would have been the next shooter I targeted, but New Jersey already made their offer.


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

caseyrh said:


> Can we front load this contract? It would put a lot more pressure on the Magic if the 20 mil was spread out like this (10,7,3)


You can frontload it, but you have to stay within the 10% raises.

Most likely, these are the approximate contracts:

Boozer
Yr 1: 12.30M
Yr 2: 13.53M
Yr 3: 14.88M
Yr 4: 16.37M
Yr 5: 18.01M

Korver
Yr 1: 4.60M
Yr 2: 5.06M
Yr 3: 5.57M

Redick
Yr 1: 6.00M
Yr 2: 6.60M
Yr 3: 7.26M

Total first year = 22.9M

Most you could structure Redick's deal is about 7.26M, which would also take away an additional 1.26M we could spend.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

A few responses:

- We want Reddick because we need more than just 1 three-point shooter on this team. One is not enough. Two is getting there. You can never have too much three-point talent, especially on this team where you have an elite slasher and low-post guy.

- Morrow has zero defensive abilities. He is not athletic at all. He is not any more physically gifted than JJ Reddick. I believe Reddick is the better defender though and has been schooled better in defense.

- Reddick is a good signing, though this is more than I'd like to pay. Oh well, there are worse contracts out there. This doesn't touch Drew Gooden for $32M or Tyrus Thomas for $40M.


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## Good Hope (Nov 27, 2002)

Apparently, the Magic are threatening to match.

Maybe we have to move on.



> Orlando Magic general manager Otis Smith told the Orlando Sentinel early Saturday he "anticipates" matching the Bulls' three-year, $19 million offer to restricted free agent J.J. Redick.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

Dang, too bad. We really do need another purebred 3-pt threat other than just Kyle Korver. Morrow will be tough to pry too b/c Golden State will probably match.

I really hope we are still pursuing Ronnie Brewer, we can still offer him a contract even while waiting for Orlando to match the Reddick offer sheet.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Morrow is a Net.
Redick will remain with the Magic
Go after Brewer or Matthews


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## S.jR. (May 18, 2010)

Please match this offer.. I really hate Reddick at this price. Really would like Matthews and or Brewer/Allen.


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## Merk (May 24, 2006)

TwinkieTowers said:


> I can only think of one reason why you think Morrow has more defensive upside than Redick (it rhymes with "tack").
> 
> And, just like with David Lee, you have to take Morrow's numbers with a grain of salt due to the offensive system he played in. APBRmetric numbers have shown that Redick is more efficient than Morrow at both ends of the floor.
> 
> Of course, Morrow would have been the next shooter I targeted, but New Jersey already made their offer.



Wrong, I'm going off what other Warriors fans and some Bulls fans have said around here. I dont catch a lot of Warriors basketball so I can only go off what other people say. But if you want to make it a color issue that says more about you than it does me


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## TwinkieTowers (Jul 16, 2002)

Merk said:


> Wrong, I'm going off what other Warriors fans and some Bulls fans have said around here. I dont catch a lot of Warriors basketball so I can only go off what other people say. But if you want to make it a color issue that says more about you than it does me


As you can see, I live in the Bay Area, so I get to see a lot Warrior games. Morrow is not athletic at all, by NBA standards, nor does he play much defense, though that could be the result of playing for Don Nelson.

While Redick is not much more athletic than Morrow, he already has a lot of the nuances of NBA defense learned -- the types of little things that Rose still has to discover and Hinrich knows much of.

I, for one, am not making it a color issue. I was just wondering where you found this vast amount of defensive upside in Morrow, because it's just not there from what I've seen.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

Merk said:


> But if you want to make it a color issue that says more about you than it does me


Don't you love it when someone tries to take the high road on the Internet?

P.S. I'll chime in and say that Redick is a decent defender, from what I have seen in the Orlando games.


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

Rhyder said:


> You can frontload it, but you have to stay within the 10% raises.
> 
> Most likely, these are the approximate contracts:
> 
> ...


Thanks Rhyder. 

But I would prefer to frontload it, I understand that we would lose extra cap space this year. But if we were to get him We really wouldn't have much else to fill on our roster. And his salary decreasing would help a bit when Rose needs to get resigned. Plus it would make it quite a bit harder for Orlando to match.


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

They're frontloading it because they want to make it harder for the Magic to match. They probably have no choice except to match, but they'd have to pay Redick 7 million and pay 7 million in luxury tax if they do. I like Redick and he's really put his work in, but that's the same thing it'll cost to pay Chris Paul and Deron Williams next year.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

Good Hope said:


> Apparently, the Magic are threatening to match.
> 
> Maybe we have to move on.



KC on the radio said today this may be bluster, because the Magic are in luxury tax land, and matching would thereby cost them $14M this year.

It's also possible they match and then we try to pry a different player away for salary cap relief for them.


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

update From Twitter:


> WojYahooNBA Quentin Richardson has agreed in principle to a multi-year contract with the Orlando Magic, a league source tells Y! Sports.





> WojYahooNBA It is unclear if signing Quentin Richardson means Orlando won't match JJ Redick offer sheet with Bulls, but certainly makes it less likely.



This is great news for us... I can't see how Orlando would resign Reddick now. Q Rich is basically the 4th sg they have not counting Reddick (VC, Barnes, Pietrus are the others). I can't see them spending 15 or so mil this season on Reddick.


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## Good Hope (Nov 27, 2002)

An update from Adrian W.

Magic have signed Q Richardson to multi year deal -- makes re-upping Reddick less likely. I think it's good news.



> # It is unclear if signing Quentin Richardson means Orlando won't match JJ Redick offer sheet with Bulls, but certainly makes it less likely. 8 minutes ago via UberTwitter
> 
> # Quentin Richardson has agreed in principle to a multi-year contract with the Orlando Magic, a league source tells Y! Sports.


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## BenDengGo (Feb 1, 2004)

thatd be great, now lock up brewer and livingston. get miller a 1y deal with a followup occupation as bulls' big man coach.
sign 2 guys who convinced in the summer league and they are good to go.

edit: it could also mean that they are not resigning matt barnes now.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

This is good news. Orlando probably figures Q-Rich will come cheaper while bringing many of the same qualities.


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## Bulls42 (Jul 22, 2002)

Looks like Reddick will be a Bull. 
Ok signing, just hurts to think the Heat got Wade and LeBron at the 2 and 3 and we got Reddick and Korver. OUCH.
It'll be like if Craig Hodges and Trent Tucker ever played together (minus MJ).


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## Firefight (Jul 2, 2010)

BenDengGo said:


> thatd be great, now lock up brewer and *livingston*. get miller a 1y deal with a followup occupation as bulls' big man coach.
> sign 2 guys who convinced in the summer league and they are good to go.
> 
> edit: it could also mean that they are not resigning matt barnes now.


I've seen his name a couple times now on the boards... Is this just talk around here? ...or have the Bulls actually showed interest?


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

The Bulls have had a more than solid offseason. Yeah, it hasn't been as storied as say Miami's, but you guys are absolutely a top four team in the east now.


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

Bulls42 said:


> Looks like Reddick will be a Bull.
> Ok signing, just hurts to think the Heat got Wade and LeBron at the 2 and 3 and we got Reddick and Korver. OUCH.


The Heat got Wade and Lebron at the 2 and 3 which dominates us (and everyone else in the NBA), I'm not arguing that.

But...
Right now we would have Deng, Reddick, and Korver. And still money to spend maybe Brewer also. (can't forget about JJ  )

That makes it a little bit more comforting. Regardless SG is going to be our weakest link. But it kinda was last year also and now at least we can say we have the best shooting in the NBA at the 2, and depth. (provided we do in fact land Reddick, and in all likeley hood we will land another quality roleplayer)

I mean the cool thing about how our team is shaping up is that because we have 2 very good young players on rookie contracts (Rose and Noah) and to a leser extent Gibson. COupled with only 2 big contracts Boozer, and Deng (both guys who I believe are very good) And pretty much a clean slate salary wise. It is allowing us to basically build around our good players with very solid roleplayers. We have been able to spend pretty big money on our bench. Which is something most good teams have a tough time doing because they tend to be in constant cap trouble. This a clear advantage we have over other teams.

Add in that we will also have the MLE (hopefully) next year means our depth should be phenomenal going forward. Although I wouldn't blame JR for not using the MLE if he needs the cash to sign Noah, Rose, and Gibson in the future and not get murdered by Luxury Tax.


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## Bulls42 (Jul 22, 2002)

Top 4 doesn't mean much to me. Bottom line is to turn into a NBA championship contender (what we all should want) we are going to have to upgrade/consolidate our shooting guard/small forward positions to obtain at least one star-caliber player (which at the current time, we do not have).
So our best shot at this is to hope for some really good luck ahead of next year's trade-deadline, like the way the Lakers got Gasol (since we aren't likely getting Melo as a free agent next year).

Or we can sign Adam Morrison and have every slow-footed, 3-point shooter of Caucasian origin in the league (not that there's anything wrong with that, of course):
via twitter AlexKennedyNBA Many teams are expressing interest in Adam Morrison. The Wizards are working him out this afternoon and the Bulls will see him tomorrow.


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## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

We have another team's first next year too don't we? Seems like we picked up some draft picks but can't recall what for sure.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

Bulls42 said:


> Looks like Reddick will be a Bull.
> Ok signing, just hurts to think the Heat got Wade and LeBron at the 2 and 3 and we got Reddick and Korver. OUCH.
> It'll be like if Craig Hodges and Trent Tucker ever played together (minus MJ).


Don't forget Boozer...

Wade/Lebron definitely will kill us on the wings, but the Bulls will kill Miami pretty badly at PG and C.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

DaBabyBullz said:


> We have another team's first next year too don't we? Seems like we picked up some draft picks but can't recall what for sure.


Yes, we have the Bobcats' first rounder (Tyrus Thomas trade). Although I don't know the conditions, e.g., lotto protected? how long until unprotected?

Could be quite valuable depending on when we secure the pick.

Edit: I found a quote from Gar Forman saying the Bobcat's pick is for 2012. It is lotto-protected initially, with the protection going down each year. It would be unprotected in 2015, I think. 

In other words, if Charlotte stays lotto bound for the next 5 years, we could have a major steal on our hands. Unlikely but you can't rule it out...it is Charlotte after all.


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## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

yodurk said:


> Yes, we have the Bobcats' first rounder (Tyrus Thomas trade). Although I don't know the conditions, e.g., lotto protected? how long until unprotected?
> 
> Could be quite valuable depending on when we secure the pick.


Thanks, I knew we had one but I was drawing a complete blank about whose and how we got it lol. Yeah I never heard the details either. Hopefully we'll luck into something like with the Knicks trade that netted us Tyrus (and Joakim too?).


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## Kneepad (Jun 24, 2002)

DaBabyBullz said:


> We have another team's first next year too don't we? Seems like we picked up some draft picks but can't recall what for sure.


No, the only first rounder the Bulls are owed if from the Bobcats, and that will be 2012 at the earliest and (lottery protected in 2012).


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## Kneepad (Jun 24, 2002)

yodurk said:


> Yes, we have the Bobcats' first rounder (Tyrus Thomas trade). Although I don't know the conditions, e.g., lotto protected? how long until unprotected?
> 
> Could be quite valuable depending on when we secure the pick.


The Bobcats pick is protected top 14 in 2012, top 12 in 2013, top 10 in 2014, top 8 in 2015, unprotected in 2016.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

Kneepad said:


> The Bobcats pick is protected top 14 in 2012, top 12 in 2013, top 10 in 2014, top 8 in 2015, unprotected in 2016.


Roger, thanks.

As I mentioned above (edited post), we can't rule out Charlotte being a bad lotto team for the next 5 years so this could be highly valuable. They only recently made their first ever playoff appearance and it's not like they have a mega-star leading that team. Gerald Wallace is great but a mega-star he is not.


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## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

Kneepad said:


> The Bobcats pick is protected top 14 in 2012, top 12 in 2013, top 10 in 2014, top 8 in 2015, unprotected in 2016.


So we have to hope that they really really suck and we get it in '16? lol


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

Bulls42 said:


> Top 4 doesn't mean much to me. Bottom line is to turn into a NBA championship contender (what we all should want) .


Top 4 is important. It's not everything but it's important. When you consider other teams are going to have scrubs backing up there starters and we will have very good bench players. There is a certain amount of time in every game where we will have an advantage over the opponents. Not to mention we will get out starters some rest. And we will withstand injuries far better.



> we are going to have to upgrade/consolidate our shooting guard/small forward positions to obtain at least one star-caliber player (which at the current time, we do not have).


This arguement has been played out a ton (and I tend to be the driving factor behind it) so this time I am going to avoid going into it in great detail. But just to simplify, Deng is a very good player. He is a much better starting small forward than what other teams are throwing out there. He is a very good defender, an excellent rebounder, and a well above average scorer. (in fact he was one of the top scoring second options in the NBA last year. 

You bring up Gasol but realize Gasol only scored half a point more than Deng. And Deng plays better D. I'm not saying Deng is better than Gasol by any means. I realize that there are certain other factors that make Gasol better. My point is that Deng is not chopped liver. 

Deng will now drop to our third option on the team. His defense and rebounding will become even more valuable. How many teams have a third option like Deng??? (well Miami does obviously but that situation is ridiculous)

Say his scoring average drops significantly to 15 ppg. How many teams, have a third option that plays D and rebounds, scoring 15 a night?

We really don't need a star there. Would it be nice? sure. But only if that "star" is an above average defender, rebounder, and scores off the ball. I'm not sure who is available that can do that.

Anyways I won't get into a long drawn out arguement over this (again). But take another look at Deng and what he brings to the table (and do your best to ignore how incredibly boring his game is)

I think that if you look objectiveley at his game and how he fits into our team, you will find that when you combine best fit with talent, you can't do much better than him at the 3.


Our team is going to have to succeed based on our combination of high level talent (but not elite), depth, and how well all of our players compliment each other.

I think this is a recipe for great success. As long as Miami is healthy we will never be the most talented team in the NBA. We are going to have to find another way to beat an uber talented team like that and I like the way we are putting our team together in order to do it.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

Firefight said:


> I've seen his name a couple times now on the boards... Is this just talk around here? ...or have the Bulls actually showed interest?



KC Johnson (Bulls beat writer) indicated Livingston was a possibility.


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## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

caseyrh said:


> This arguement has been played out a ton (and I tend to be the driving factor behind it) so this time I am going to avoid going into it in great detail. But just to simplify, Deng is a very good player. He is a much better starting small forward than what other teams are throwing out there. He is a very good defender, an excellent rebounder, and a well above average scorer. (in fact he was one of the top scoring second options in the NBA last year.
> 
> You bring up Gasol but realize Gasol only scored half a point more than Deng. And Deng plays better D. I'm not saying Deng is better than Gasol by any means. I realize that there are certain other factors that make Gasol better. My point is that Deng is not chopped liver.
> 
> ...


My god, do you ever get off of dung's dong? It's just absurd the claims you make. Very good player? Hahahaha hardly! I won't even get into the rest of the garbage you spewed forth there. But seriously, are you never going to stop pimping him in every god damn post? He sucks. He misses almost 1 out of 5 games for his career (more than 1 of 4 the last 2 years combined). He has no shooting range. He has no handles. He's an AVERAGE defender and rebounder. He's not spectacular, or even "very good" at anything, especially staying healthy enough to be reliable at all. 

We have one star on this team, and that's Rose. Boozer and Noah are ok but a bit one dimensional. You need stars to win, and Rose is all we got.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

With the Magic signing Richarson, looks like he is all yours


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## Bulls42 (Jul 22, 2002)

I apologize, this may not seem clear on first read:
Your argument about being well-positioned with Deng as our third option falls apart in that our second-best player, Carlos Boozer, is inferior in terms of his superiority at his position relative to the Lakers second-best player (Pau Gasol) and the Heat's second-best player (Dwayne Wade).
Additionally, our #1 (D-Rose) is a great player, but is not yet the caliber of the Lakers #1 (Kobe) and the Heat's #1 (LeBron). 
So you see, it's a cumulative effect in that our top three players are not superior to the aforementioned teams. That's why we need to consolidate our shooting guards/small forwards to have a star at either of those positions, to have a top three that rivals the top teams in the league.
Regarding the fourth and fifth-best players on the team (and the bench), the Lakers (and Celtics) have the surrounding pieces. The Heat will more than likely assemble them as well (if not this year, then next).


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

Bulls42 said:


> I apologize, this may not seem clear on first read:
> Your argument about being well-positioned with Deng as our third option falls apart in that our second-best player, Carlos Boozer, is inferior in terms of his superiority at his position relative to the Lakers second-best player (Pau Gasol) and the Heat's second-best player (Dwayne Wade).
> Additionally, our #1 (D-Rose) is a great player, but is not yet the caliber of the Lakers #1 (Kobe) and the Heat's #1 (LeBron). So you see, it's a cumulative effect in that our top three players are not superior to the aforementioned teams.
> That's why we need to consolidate our shooting guards/small forwards to have a star at either of those positions, to have a top three that rivals the top teams in the league.
> The Lakers have the surrounding pieces. The Heat will more than likely assemble them as well (if not this year, then next).


I think you missed my point... My post was about us not having the elite talent at the top of the roster that a couple other teams have. It is all fine and dandy to want that, but it just isn't going to happen. My point is that we are going to have to get by on beating teams based on depth, versatility, and fit. 

And to say the Lakers have the surrounding pieces. That just isn't true. Ask any Lakers fan about how good their starting pg was (probably the worst in the NBA and virtually a revolving dor on defense)). Or how good their bench was outside of Odom. Or how good their team shooting was....
That team had a ton of holes. They get by because they have some elite talent + a couple other good players.
The Heat will have some of the same problems.

We will not. We wont have the elite talent that they have but we will have much better depth and far fewer weaknesses. Plus we will have 2 all stars in our lineup plus 2 other guys (Deng and Noah) that are bordeline all-stars.


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

DaBabyBullz said:


> My god, do you ever get off of dung's dong? It's just absurd the claims you make. Very good player? Hahahaha hardly! I won't even get into the rest of the garbage you spewed forth there. But seriously, are you never going to stop pimping him in every god damn post? He sucks. He misses almost 1 out of 5 games for his career (more than 1 of 4 the last 2 years combined). He has no shooting range. He has no handles. He's an AVERAGE defender and rebounder. He's not spectacular, or even "very good" at anything, especially staying healthy enough to be reliable at all.
> 
> We have one star on this team, and that's Rose. Boozer and Noah are ok but a bit one dimensional. You need stars to win, and Rose is all we got.


You are absouluteley clueless. I have no idea why you are even interested in basketball as you seemingly have no idea about the game. Every post you make seems like it was written by a slow-adult and your blatant and admitted bias towards white players is ridiculous. You do realize that no one on here takes you seriously (well maybe your BFF on the short buss Bulls96). It is actually embarassing to me that I even take the time to respond to basketball related posts you make. As virtually everything I say goes over your head. I don't know if you received one to many swirlies as a child but whatever the cause might be your basketball IQ is seriously lacking. It is impossible to have an intelligent basketball related discussion with you. I post on here to not have to discuss my basketball opinions with my wife. But if it was between you and her I think my conversation with her would be more interesting as she just realized how many quarters there are in a basketball game (so at least she has that going for her). Good luck with you I'm glad my hard-earned tax dollars are supporting people like you.


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## Bulls42 (Jul 22, 2002)

Umm... the Lakers won by having everything (Fisher is no slouch, Artest is a lock down defender and Odom is an incredible 6th man).
We will need to upgrade/consolidate our talent. Depth of "nice" players doesn't win championships.


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

Bulls42 said:


> Umm... the Lakers won by having everything (Fisher is no slouch, Artest is a lock down defender and Odom is an incredible 6th man).
> We will need to upgrade/consolidate our talent. Depth of "nice" players doesn't win championships.


Fischer is terrible...

He is Kobe's Best buddy which is why they keep him around, he has some leadership ability, and is capable of making big shots. But as a complete basketball player he is absoluteley terrible. It is no secret why opposing point guards always murder the Lakers.

And Fisher's stats are horrible to boot. His PER of 9.29 likeley makes him one of the worst players statistically in the NBA. Your kidding yourself if you think he is even close to league average.

Artest is a lock down defender no doubt, but there are certainly holes in his game. And Odom is a very good bench player. But there other bench players are terrible.


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## TheDarkPrince (May 13, 2006)

Ben Wallace
Rip Hamilton
Tayshaun Prince
Chauncey Billups
beat the Lakers with a team that had 4 hall of famers on it.
Shaq
Karl Malone
Kobe
Gary Payton

Team ball with solid but not great players can indeed win a title.


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## Kneepad (Jun 24, 2002)

TheDarkPrince said:


> Ben Wallace
> Rip Hamilton
> Tayshaun Prince
> Chauncey Billups
> ...


This is a shaky premise as Malone and Payton were well past their primes.


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## Bulls42 (Jul 22, 2002)

Team-ball with lower-talent players winning championships over more talented, star-studded teams is the exception and not the norm. 
They make movies commemorating them when they do happen (Miracle, Hoosiers, etc - although no movie on the Pistons' championship), but it is not the best model for success.


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## PD (Sep 10, 2004)

Kneepad said:


> This is a shaky premise as Malone and Payton were well past their primes.


But Shaq was a dominant interior figure as one could have asked for.


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## Bulls96 (Jun 25, 2003)

Caseyhrs you are seems to me absolutely incompetent not just only in basketball but in professional sport in general. Considering your hysterical character, you should stop debating on any subjects…you hear me … ANY. 

You have no business turning any argument into a personal attack . We all here are the Bulls fans … not a freaking Deng’s fans , can you get that ! 

Unfortunately I am not a moderator, to suspend you from posting …calm down dude,
get some drink and have a regular sex.


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

This thread is about JJ Redick, let's get back to that -


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## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

Redick, not dung and Casey lol


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## Bulls rock your socks (Jun 29, 2006)

TheDarkPrince said:


> Ben Wallace
> Rip Hamilton
> Tayshaun Prince
> Chauncey Billups
> ...


tayshaun prince is a hall of famer? ummmmmmmmmmmmmm no?


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

Bulls96 said:


> Caseyhrs you are seems to me absolutely incompetent not just only in basketball but in professional sport in general. Considering your hysterical character, you should stop debating on any subjects…you hear me … ANY.
> 
> You have no business turning any argument into a personal attack . We all here are the Bulls fans … not a freaking Deng’s fans , can you get that !
> 
> ...


Great post.:sarcasm:


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

> dung's dong


Wow, and I thought I heard it all.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

Man, I love me some a regular sex.


Ok, both casey and DBB, please take it down a notch. Thanks.


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## King Joseus (May 26, 2003)

jnrjr79 said:


> Man, I love me some a regular sex.
> 
> 
> Ok, both casey and DBB, please take it down a notch. Thanks.


Co-sign.


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## BullNuts (Jan 18, 2010)

thebizkit69u said:


> Wow, and I thought I heard it all.


LOLOLOLOl


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## Wynn (Jun 3, 2002)

jnrjr79 said:


> Man, I love me some a regular sex.
> 
> 
> Ok, both casey and DBB, please take it down a notch. Thanks.


Regular sex is good most days, but sometimes you just gotta get a little FREAKY!


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

Wynn said:


> Regular sex is good most days, but sometimes you just gotta get a little FREAKY!



Not regular sex. This was "a regular sex." I'm not sure if that's regular sex one time or something akin to irregular sex. It is fascinating though.

Ok, ok. Back to basketball.


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## Wynn (Jun 3, 2002)

jnrjr79 said:


> Not regular sex. This was "a regular sex." I'm not sure if that's regular sex one time or something akin to irregular sex. It is fascinating though.
> 
> Ok, ok. Back to basketball.


Was he accusing *Casey!* of being a hermaphrodite?!?!?!

:eek8:


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

Wynn said:


> Was he accusing *Casey!* of being a hermaphrodite?!?!?!
> 
> :eek8:


Irregular sex to me, is basically me turning the lights on.


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## King Joseus (May 26, 2003)

:laugh:

I love this board.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

King Joseus said:


> :laugh:
> 
> I love this board.



Ditto.


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## taco_daddy (Jun 13, 2004)

Mmmm sex. But this thread is worthless w/o a visual to discuss.


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

I don't know if a life-sized picture was required, but we'll take it.


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## Bulls96 (Jun 25, 2003)

taco_daddy said:


> Mmmm sex. But this thread is worthless w/o a visual to discuss.


Good Lord ! (solid 9.5 pointer)

She could be our elite Power Forward !


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## TwinkieTowers (Jul 16, 2002)

Dornado said:


> I don't know if a life-sized picture was required, but we'll take it.


That's a life-sized picture?

Well, at least she'd be really tight.


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

TwinkieTowers said:


> That's a life-sized picture?
> 
> Well, at least she'd be really tight.


It was a lot bigger when I wrote that... not sure if taco_daddy re-sized it or if my computer was just being weird.

Anyway, pocket-sized Jessica Alba works too.


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## l0st1 (Jul 2, 2010)

Looks like the Magic might let JJ go. Great signing by the Bulls. Add him to Korver(who I didn't even know was signed by the Bulls, but saw somewhere on here that he did?) and they now have some outside shooting. Next step is hoping Rose can improve his jumpshot and Noah/Deng can stay healthy. Couple thoughts on the topics at hand...

1) Based on what I've seen(obviously not as much as a Chicago Fan) Deng is solid in all aspects. Obviously overpaid, but he's a good defender, rebounds pretty well for his position, not great range but can hit occasional threes. And is a decently versatile offensive player. IF he can stay healthy, then the Bulls are a very dangerous team.

2) "a regular sex" made me think of asexual. So maybe he was telling him to have sex with himself? Just a thought.


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## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

l0st1 said:


> Looks like the Magic might let JJ go. Great signing by the Bulls. Add him to Korver(who I didn't even know was signed by the Bulls, but saw somewhere on here that he did?) and they now have some outside shooting. Next step is hoping Rose can improve his jumpshot and Noah/Deng can stay healthy. Couple thoughts on the topics at hand...
> 
> 1) Based on what I've seen(obviously not as much as a Chicago Fan) Deng is solid in all aspects. Obviously overpaid, but he's a good defender, rebounds pretty well for his position, not great range but can hit occasional threes. And is a decently versatile offensive player. IF he can stay healthy, then the Bulls are a very dangerous team.
> 
> 2) "a regular sex" made me think of asexual. So maybe he was telling him to have sex with himself? Just a thought.


Your take on Deng isn't bad. Solid, meaning decent? Ok. Obviously overpaid...definitely. Not great range...yep. I wouldn't say he's versatile offensively, since he can't handle the ball, create his own shot at all, or stretch the D via shooting the 3 consistently. IF he can stay healthy is the key. Nice caps on the IF.


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## l0st1 (Jul 2, 2010)

Again based on my limited sample of Chicago games, Deng doesn't have great handles but I've seen him drive plenty of times. He is long which gives him an advantage on the glass. He's got a nice midrange game. And he 39% from 3 last year granted he only made around 30 but still. Shows he has the range.


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## S.jR. (May 18, 2010)

We got 1 more day left.. So is Orlando matching or is he staying? C'mon Otis make up your mind!


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

S.jR. said:


> We got 1 more day left.. So is Orlando matching or is he staying? C'mon Otis make up your mind!


I am _really_ hoping we get Reddick. I think he would be a perfect fit here and be a huge addition to this team. Unfortunateley I am worried that this will not happen.

Does anyone know when the Magic have to make their decision by? Is it prior to Friday?


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## BenDengGo (Feb 1, 2004)

freakin otis smith cost the bulls a lot of time. while dragging his decision, the bulls lost on morrow and wes matthews two other good young 2 guards.


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## Merk (May 24, 2006)

BenDengGo said:


> *freakin otis smith cost the bulls a lot of time.* while dragging his decision, the bulls lost on morrow and wes matthews two other good young 2 guards.


I think that was his goal


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

caseyrh said:


> Does anyone know when the Magic have to make their decision by? Is it prior to Friday?


It might be close of business, in which case we might not hear anything until Friday evening or even Saturday morning.

Yes, Otis Smith is definitely dragging this out deliberately. That is the usual strategy on offer sheets, to block an opponent from making moves. I think Chicago did this when Duhon had signed an offer sheet several years ago, they waited until the last minute to match it.


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## Bulls42 (Jul 22, 2002)

It's from Cleveland so I don't know how true it is:
http://www.morningjournal.com/articles/2010/07/15/sports/doc4c3e7ff61d4cb071931217.txt

• Sources say the Magic will match the offer sheet signed by swingman J.J. Redick with the Bulls. The Magic might explore possibly trading forward Mickael Pietrus if Redick returns.

If it's true, I think we should have Brewer and Barnes tee'd up and ready to go (in addition to Brad Miller and a back-up PG)


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## BenDengGo (Feb 1, 2004)

is there any other 3point sniper available?


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

Bulls42 said:


> It's from Cleveland so I don't know how true it is:
> http://www.morningjournal.com/articles/2010/07/15/sports/doc4c3e7ff61d4cb071931217.txt
> 
> • Sources say the Magic will match the offer sheet signed by swingman J.J. Redick with the Bulls. The Magic might explore possibly trading forward Mickael Pietrus if Redick returns.
> ...


Yeah I saw that also. Actually Pietrus wouldn't be a bad fit. A big defensive 2g that can hit the 3 ball. I wonder what he would cost? (a first round pick?). He will make 5.3 mil next season and has a qualifying offer for 5.3 for the following year. So there isn't much of a committment there.


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## Firefight (Jul 2, 2010)

I'm going to be surprised if the Magic match the Bulls offer. With the cap situation the Magic are in, they'll be basically paying 14mil/year to keep Redick. I've heard the Magic owner(s) are good and always willing to spend, but paying that much in luxury tax for a 3-pt specialist sounds a but steep; especially with the recent signing of Richardson.


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## Firefight (Jul 2, 2010)

l0st1 said:


> Again based on my limited sample of Chicago games, Deng doesn't have great handles but I've seen him drive plenty of times. He is long which gives him an advantage on the glass. He's got a nice midrange game. And he 39% from 3 last year granted he only made around 30 but still. Shows he has the range.



Not seeing a lot of Bulls games, one will get different takes on Deng. If you saw him when he first came into the league he would of been described as a slasher that has a decent jumper. The last couple of years, he is a guy who is looking for the mid-range jumper that occasionally takes the ball to the hoop.

Deng NEEDS to go back to driving the lane and getting to the line. Although his jumper has improved, he is much better when driving the lane. It also seems that the games in which he gets involved early on in, he does much better through-out the game. Hopefully with some good shooters on the court now (Korver/Redick), Deng will find more and more openings to get to the basket.


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## Kneepad (Jun 24, 2002)

Firefight said:


> Not seeing a lot of Bulls games, one will get different takes on Deng. If you saw him when he first came into the league he would of been described as a slasher that has a decent jumper. The last couple of years, he is a guy who is looking for the mid-range jumper that occasionally takes the ball to the hoop.
> 
> Deng NEEDS to go back to driving the lane and getting to the line.


This change in Deng's game coincided with the drafting of Derrick Rose and the hiring of Vinnie Del *****. VDN's offense was almost 100% pick and roll with the ball in Rose's hands. Deng was often relegated to standing in the corner, waiting for a kick out.

I'm really hopeful to see more variety in the Bulls offense under Thibodeau which takes greater advantage of Deng's strengths.


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## TwinkieTowers (Jul 16, 2002)

06-07 Deng was one of the league's best finishers. He was really good at converting the and-1s.


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## BenDengGo (Feb 1, 2004)

i'm stealing this one from the other board

apparently tom t-bo said this when asked upon lu


> Luol Deng - He's one of the most underrated players in the league and used in the wrong way in the last few years.


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## Bulls96 (Jun 25, 2003)

BenDengGo said:


> ...i'm stealing this one from the other board...apparently tom t-bo said this when asked upon luLuol Deng - He's one of the most underrated players in the league and used in the wrong way in the last few years.


Of course he was used in the wrong way !

*Deng should be used as a perfect sparring partner not as a NBA player.*

I hope someone will steal our “hidden treasure” together with his supporters.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

Firefight said:


> I'm going to be surprised if the Magic match the Bulls offer. With the cap situation the Magic are in, they'll be basically paying 14mil/year to keep Redick. I've heard the Magic owner(s) are good and always willing to spend, but paying that much in luxury tax for a 3-pt specialist sounds a but steep; especially with the recent signing of Richardson.


It'll only be 14mill in the 1st year cuz it's frontloaded... Next year we have a team option on VC, and can either opt-out, trade him, or restructure his deal to lessen the tax burden, so it's not necessarily 14mil/per. 

And people will always hate on the Lewis signing, but you have to give the owners credit. They have spent full MLE every summer Lewis has been here and have also retained players like Gortat & now JJ. Obviously Lewis is overpaid, but the only one really feeling it has been the owner... He hasn't let the contract or the luxury tax affect how he's building the team. Props to him for the commitment.


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

Blue Magic said:


> It'll only be 14mill in the 1st year cuz it's frontloaded... Next year we have a team option on VC, and can either opt-out, trade him, or restructure his deal to lessen the tax burden, so it's not necessarily 14mil/per.
> 
> And people will always hate on the Lewis signing, but you have to give the owners credit. They have spent full MLE every summer Lewis has been here and have also retained players like Gortat *& now JJ.* Obviously Lewis is overpaid, but the only one really feeling it has been the owner... He hasn't let the contract or the luxury tax affect how he's building the team. Props to him for the commitment.


link?

Edit:
Oh and also even ditching VC, won't be enough to keep your owner from not paying luxury tax on Reddick. The team will be like 25 mil (minimum) over the cap the year after next so ditching VC's 18 mil won't be enough. Your team will very likeley be paying luxury tax on Reddick the following year as well. 

So your owner is pretty much on the hook for 40 mil to Reddick for 3 seasons. Not saying he won't do it, just saying it's a big committment. Kudos to your owner if he does though.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

caseyrh said:


> link?


Didn't someone already posted the quote saying we were most likely gonna match?



> Oh and also even ditching VC, won't be enough to keep your owner from not paying luxury tax on Reddick. The team will be like 25 mil (minimum) over the cap the year after next so ditching VC's 18 mil won't be enough. Your team will very likeley be paying luxury tax on Reddick the following year as well.
> 
> So your owner is pretty much on the hook for 40 mil to Reddick for 3 seasons. Not saying he won't do it, just saying it's a big committment. Kudos to your owner if he does though.


To say we're on the hook for 40mil to Redick is kind of flawed. Last time I checked, there are at least 13 guys on the roster. Sure we'd still be over the cap but we wouldn't be nearly as much over as we are are looking like for this upcoming season. The luxury starts at 70.3 million... So lets assume Magic have a $94 million payroll next year, we'd be paying around an extra 23.7million in Tax. With 13 players, $23.7m/13 = $1.82mil extra per player... 

If you look @ it like that, it's not exactly equivalent to paying Redick $40million, it's more like paying him $9million this yr, $8mil next, etc... BUT, if we were to restructure VC's deal next summer, or maybe even dump Bass, Gortat, and/or Pietrus somewhere, we could easily cut the luxury obligations in half... So if we wanted, next year we could get it closer to $900,000(or less) per player, which is not too bad.


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

Blue Magic said:


> Didn't someone already posted the quote saying we were most likely gonna match?


There is *speculation* that Orlando will match. But as far as I know there are no quotes from the magics organization saying that they will match. And they have not matched.

This quote from you:


> and have also retained players like Gortat & now JJ.


Implies that they already matched. I was wondering if you had a link. Turns out you were just guessing.



> To say we're on the hook for 40mil to Redick is kind of flawed. Last time I checked, there are at least 13 guys on the roster. Sure we'd still be over the cap but we wouldn't be nearly as much over as we are are looking like for this upcoming season. The luxury starts at 70.3 million... So lets assume Magic have a $94 million payroll next year, we'd be paying around an extra 23.7million in Tax. With 13 players, $23.7m/13 = $1.82mil extra per player...
> 
> If you look @ it like that, it's not exactly equivalent to paying Redick $40million, it's more like paying him $9million this yr, $8mil next, etc... BUT, if we were to restructure VC's deal next summer, or maybe even dump Bass, Gortat, and/or Pietrus somewhere, we could easily cut the luxury obligations in half... So if we wanted, next year we could get it closer to $900,000(or less) per player, which is not too bad.


Well that is an interesting way to look at it.

Basically if your owner matches this contract he will likeley have to pay 40 mil more than had he not. 

I'm not sure why you would want to look at it the strange way you chose but whatever.


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## Firefight (Jul 2, 2010)

Blue Magic said:


> It'll only be 14mill in the 1st year cuz it's frontloaded... Next year we have a team option on VC, and can either opt-out, trade him, or restructure his deal to lessen the tax burden, so it's not necessarily 14mil/per.
> 
> And people will always hate on the Lewis signing, but you have to give the owners credit. They have spent full MLE every summer Lewis has been here and have also retained players like Gortat & now JJ. Obviously Lewis is overpaid, but the only one really feeling it has been the owner... He hasn't let the contract or the luxury tax affect how he's building the team. Props to him for the commitment.



Yep... I understand it's just one year because it's front loaded, but it's still 14mil for this year. I haven't had the opportunity to watch Redick to much, but I know he came on strong the 2nd half of last year...but 14 mil? Especially with the Richardson signing, it seems more unlikely. But, if they do match, it just goes to show the willingness to spend $$ by management which is rarely a bad thing.


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## Bulls42 (Jul 22, 2002)

KC just posted Orlando doesn't have to decide until Saturday evening - so we won't know until Sunday morning probably.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

caseyrh said:


> Well that is an interesting way to look at it.
> 
> Basically if your owner matches this contract he will likeley have to pay 40 mil more than had he not.
> 
> I'm not sure why you would want to look at it the strange way you chose but whatever.


We're paying luxury whether we sign him or not, so I dont see why 100% of the tax should be put on his head soley because he's the most recent to sign. Sure I understand it's kinda like paying him 14mill, but technically it's not... He's only making a fraction of what other guys on the team are making, so only a fraction of the tax should technically be put on his head. 

I'm looking @ it like that cause, at the end of the day, his salary isnt THAT bad. Especially considering it's only 3yrs and front-loaded. Maybe he's a tad over-priced, but still not a terrible deal and an easily moveable contract after this year.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

Update:



> General Manager Otis Smith is fielding trade offers from other teams for other Magic players and likely another shooting guard to replace Redick, but the climate in the Magic organization does not suggest Smith is letting go of Redick unless he lands a sweet deal.
> 
> As of Thursday afternoon, Smith hasn’t prepared key players in the franchise about other free-agent options at the NBA minimum to take Redick’s place.
> 
> ...


http://ht.ly/189gjN


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

Blue Magic said:


> Update:
> 
> 
> 
> http://ht.ly/189gjN


so basically still just speculation at this point.

From everything I have read it seems likeley that he will be retained, but far from a lock. At this point it is mostly just writers guessing. We'll see what happens. For the Bulls sake I hope we get him. But you guys definateley seem to have a great owner.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Pietrus, Qrich, Pietrus....one of them is a goner.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

^Yeah, most like one of them or Bass. Fanhouse is reporting as 'official' that we will match tomorrow, though.

http://nba.fanhouse.com/2010/07/15/magic-to-keep-jj-redick-by-matching-offer-from-bulls/



> *The Orlando Magic have decided to retain restricted free agent guard J.J. Redick, matching the three-year, $19 million offer sheet he received from the Chicago Bulls last week.*
> 
> The Magic will make their intention known Friday – the last possible day -- but NBA sources familiar with the front-office thinking of the Magic confirmed their decision Thursday afternoon.
> 
> "They aren't letting go of J.J.,'' said the source


Sorry Bulls fans. You guys have a nice team though, I will be pulling for you guys alot next year and in the future. I really like your core and Boozer is nice addition. Will be tough to beat for sure, and good luck. I personally hope you guys can get Brewer.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Bulls have Korver anyways, getting Redick was redundant. What they should have done was go after Morrow. If I were them, I go after Roger Mason immediately.


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

well that sucks...


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

I'd add Ronnie Brewer and a backup PG... unless there's something out there via trade.


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## egang (May 24, 2006)

Another report of Magic matching Reddick's offer:

http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/nba/news/story?id=5384815



> J.J. Redick will remain a member of the Orlando Magic, according to numerous reports.
> 
> Redick signed a three-year offer sheet worth nearly $20 million with the Chicago Bulls last week. The Magic had seven days to match and have done so, according to reports.


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## BenDengGo (Feb 1, 2004)

****!!!
i'm pissed, the bulls missed out on morrow and matthews.
i keep saying morrow over and over again, but he was as productive as jj and was way cheaper.
a whole week wasting for nothing.


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## BenDengGo (Feb 1, 2004)

if the bulls get brewer thats ok, but bulls' perimeter scoring is going to suck, with the exception of korver.
my last hope is they can somehow acquire rudy fernandez from the blazers, now that pritchard is gone, who used to overvalue his teams talents.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

Guess I'm not surprised.

I'm a little disappointed but this might actually turn out to be a blessing in disguise. Reddick is one of those guys who might be an ugly contract 12 months from now, you just never know. 

Just trying to stay positive here.


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## S.jR. (May 18, 2010)

Just overheard on ESPN news that Orlando matched the offer.


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