# New Lineup for Lakers; we need another deal



## JerryWest (Jun 24, 2002)

C: Vlade, Mihm
PF: Grant, Slava, Cook
SF: Odom, Butler, Walton, George, Jones
SG: Kobe, Rush
PG: Atkins, Sasha

Ok, I calmed down a bit. Mihm isn't that bad and should still improve our front court.

We have way too many small forwards still. We had too many before, and now we have even more.

I haven't seen sasha play enough to judge him but I'd feel better if we traded George for a point guard that could play good defense. It doesn't even have to be great D like Banks could have, just something decent enough so we don't get burned for 30 points every time we go up against Parker, Bibby, Cassel, etc...


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## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

Odom can play the 4... Even though he will be hampered defensive wise against the bigger 4's he's still much more effective there...


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## JerryWest (Jun 24, 2002)

Guys I'd like to trade for:
Banks
Barbosa
Hinrich

Of these 3, I think our lowest chance is getting Hinrich, he's too valued by the Bulls.

That means we are left with Banks and Barbosa as possible.

If the Suns deal Marion, they may interest in either Walton, George, or Jones. I'd like to avoid dealing Walton if possible but would do it if absolutely neccessary.

Most likely scenario is that we are done dealing for the year. Oh well, at least you can we are really set at the swing positions of SF and SG...


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## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

No way are the Suns giving up Barbosa... Banks is still a possibility and Hinrich is out of the question...


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## JerryWest (Jun 24, 2002)

Yeah I guess the lineup could be

C: Vlade, Mihm, Slava
PF: Odom, Grant, Cook
SF: Butler, Walton, George, Jones
SG: Kobe, Rush
PG: Atkins, Sasha

I'd still like to see George or Jones go for a backup PG though with good D. There's not enough minutes to go around at SF even if Odom moves to PF.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

Enough with the "I don't want to give up Walton" crap! If you want to get quality players, you have to give up quality players in return! Walton will be stuck behind Lamar and Caron this season, anyways. 

Walton and Cook for Barbosa would be the ultimate steal. Like you said, unless the Suns trade Marion, they wouldn't even think about doing that.


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## jstempi (Jul 23, 2003)

With the up-tempo play I think we’ll see Brant at the C and Odom playing PF sometimes so the way I’ve been listing the lineup is as follows: 

C: Vlade, Grant, Mihm
PF: Grant, Odom, Slava, Cook
SF: Odom, Butler, George, Walton, Jones
SG: Kobe, Rush
PG: Atkins, Sasha

We all know Kobe can play the 3 sometimes, but I didn’t feel like listing Kobe there…but I think Rudy T is gonna want Rush to have more minutes than Walton, George or Jones…so depending on injuries or if the lineup with Kobe at the 3 works well, we will probably see Kobe at the 3 more often than Walton, George or Jones…hence, they are extremely expendable. Also, as indicated above, Cook is our 4th string PF…some might even say 5th string with Walton getting more minutes there than Cook last year. So Cook is very expendable too.

The only place the Lakers look really thin is at the PG. I don’t see why we don’t try to get Lue back. At worst he = Atkins when looking at all their pros and cons. I don’t think Boston will re-trade Banks since they aren’t sure they’ll have a PG since GP won’t go there. And I agree that the Bulls and Suns will not give up their PG’s. With how many PG’s Houston has, I think Lue could be had for whatever they want out of Cook, Walton, George, Jones, cash, 2nd rounder. They could use some more SF/PF depth. I just don’t see anything else out there. And sure we could use upgrades at the 4 and 5, but that’s not gonna happen without trading Caron at minimum, so why bother?


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## JYD (Sep 3, 2002)

We could probably get Frank Williams from the Bulls or Earl Watson from the Grizz for cheap. The Bulls and Grizz are stacked at PG.


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## Pan Mengtu (Jun 18, 2004)

> Enough with the "I don't want to give up Walton" crap! If you want to get quality players, you have to give up quality players in return! Walton will be stuck behind Lamar and Caron this season, anyways.


Then trade Butler. I'd rather have Walton than Butler.


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## Pan Mengtu (Jun 18, 2004)

You don't need another PG. You need a freaking PF, and badly.


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## JYD (Sep 3, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Pan Mengtu</b>!
> You don't need another PG. You need a freaking PF, and badly.


IMO, we need a PG more than a PF. We've got Brian Grant, Lamar Odom, Medvedenko and Cook. Odom can easily play PF and Grant is a good defender.


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## Pan Mengtu (Jun 18, 2004)

> IMO, we need a PG more than a PF. We've got Brian Grant, Lamar Odom, Medvedenko and Cook. Odom can easily play PF and Grant is a good defender.


Odom _can_ play PF, but everyone knows he's more effective at SF. That's the position he was born to play. Then you just have Grant, who a good hustler, but will get killed by Duncan, KG, you know the drill.

At PG you have Atkins and Vujacic. Vujacic is going to be a really good PG anyway, and will be ready to start midway through the season. Plus having Grant as the starting power forward is a bigger problem. That's the most dominant position in the game. Can get by with a decent vet, or rookie at PG. Kobe's going to have the ball most of the time anyways.


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## radronOmega (Aug 1, 2004)

*re*

We can have Odom, Kobe, Luke(guard sfs not pgs), Atkins, and Sasha at pg. We are fine there though I would like to see Barbosa or Banks. Rush can play pg because all he needs to do it bring the ball upcourt and give it to Kobe.


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## SoCalfan21 (Jul 19, 2004)

i say the lakers shoot for carlos arroyo. that guy can shoot and they could always package rush and walton for him


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## JerryWest (Jun 24, 2002)

There is no powerforward out there that is a significant improvement over Grant that the Lakers can trade for. On the other hand it is possible to get a significant defensive addition on the PG end.

Grant can play very good defense and gives many players problems. He isn't going to shut you down, but no one is going to shut down Duncan or Garnett anyways. What Grant can do is prevent them from going crazy with 35 + points. He can limit opposing PFs to what they usually get and make them work for every bucket. Not a strength, but not a drain on the team either.

His offensive game is limited but we have enough weapons on offense.

On the other hand, if a PG is able to scores 15 or 20 more points on the offensive end then he normally does, that constitues a bigger problem.


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## JerryWest (Jun 24, 2002)

I haven't seen Arroyo play much, can you tell me more about his game?


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>JYD</b>!
> 
> 
> IMO, we need a PG more than a PF. We've got Brian Grant, Lamar Odom, Medvedenko and Cook. Odom can easily play PF and Grant is a good defender.


...and we're probably going to have Karl Malone.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>SoCalfan21</b>!
> i say the lakers shoot for carlos arroyo. that guy can shoot and they could always package rush and walton for him


You're one of those guys that wants the Lakers to trade Brian Grant for Tim Duncan, aren't you?

:whatever:


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## SoCalfan21 (Jul 19, 2004)

lol no i just think that the lakers can get him for cheap right now because his stock isnt that high right now.:grinning:


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>SoCalfan21</b>!
> lol no i just think that the lakers can get him for cheap right now because his stock isnt that high right now.:grinning:


What? He just signed a 4yr, $16 million contract with Utah and he scored 24 points for Puerto Rico in their romping of the USA. His stock is as high as it's ever been.


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## Cris (Jun 18, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>SoCalfan21</b>!
> lol no i just think that the lakers can get him for cheap right now because his stock isnt that high right now.:grinning:



Jazz, O'Connor encouraged by Arroyo's performance 

Keep Dreaming


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## City_Dawg (Jul 25, 2004)

Excuse me if i sound like a complete moron for saying this but...

I always the reason why the Lakers ha so much trouble with PG is thier rediculous inability to guard he pick and roll(Hell, the pick and roll made a friggin superstar outta Mike Bibby) I figure with the younger and more athelitic line up,it wouldnt be as much of a problem...of course there is straight up penetration...

...hmm....

ugh...nevermind


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## Cris (Jun 18, 2003)

Shaq Was The Real Reason In Our Failure To Guard The Pic And Roll With Consistency


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## Ghiman (May 19, 2003)

My grandma could gaurd the pick and roll better than Shaq! :no: 

...and she's on a walker! (No offense to people here who use walkers)


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## Cris (Jun 18, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>ghiman</b>!
> My grandma could gaurd the pick and roll better than Shaq! :no:
> 
> ...and she's on a walker! (No offense to people here who use walkers)




I Dont Know Your Grandma But Im Sure That Statement Is True

OT: That Is The Greatest Avatar Is Recent History


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## Pan Mengtu (Jun 18, 2004)

> There is no powerforward out there that is a significant improvement over Grant that the Lakers can trade for. On the other hand it is possible to get a significant defensive addition on the PG end.


Why not Shareef Abdur-Rahim?


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Pan Mengtu</b>!
> 
> 
> Why not Shareef Abdur-Rahim?


The Blazers would trade SAR for Brian Grant? :whofarted

Man, I guess his stock really is crumbling.


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## Pan Mengtu (Jun 18, 2004)

> The Blazers would trade SAR for Brian Grant?
> 
> Man, I guess his stock really is crumbling.


When did I say it should be for Grant? The guy said there were no available PFs who would be an improvement over Grant. SAR would definitely be an improvement over Grant, but that doesn't mean you trade Grant for him. Portland's not that dumb.

I'm not good at building packages for 1 guy so you guys can figure that out, but SAR is an excellent PF for what you need.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Pan Mengtu</b>!
> 
> 
> When did I say it should be for Grant? The guy said there were no available PFs who would be an improvement over Grant. SAR would definitely be an improvement over Grant, but that doesn't mean you trade Grant for him. Portland's not that dumb.
> ...


No, he said... 



> There is no powerforward out there that is a significant improvement over Grant *that the Lakers can trade for*. On the other hand it is possible to get a significant defensive addition on the PG end.


We'd have to trade Grant to get SAR. :yes:


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## Pan Mengtu (Jun 18, 2004)

"that is a significant improvement over Grant" is a prepositional phrase which has no bearing on the actual sentence. He said that there are no good PFs which you guys can acquire. He didn't say Grant would be part of the trade.

Either you misread the sentence, and are now being stubborn to try and save face, or your english is questionable. I'm guessing it's the former. Don't worry, everyone misreads from time to time.

Anyways, forget about that. SAR would be an excellent addition.... the only question is who the Lakers have that Portland would want.... (and obviously neither Grant nor George).


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## Pan Mengtu (Jun 18, 2004)

"that is a significant improvement over Grant" is a prepositional phrase which has no bearing on the actual sentence. He said that there are no good PFs which you guys can acquire. He didn't say Grant would be part of the trade.

Either you misread the sentence, and are now being stubborn to try and save face, or your english is questionable. I'm guessing it's the former. Don't worry, everyone misreads from time to time.

Anyways, forget about that. SAR would be an excellent addition.... the only question is why the Lakers have that Portland would want.... (and obviously neither Grant nor George).


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

Now you're just making an *** out of yourself.

He said that there is no PF out there that is better than Grant and that the Lakers could trade for. You responded by saying, "What about Shareef Abdur-Rahim?" For the Lakers to acquire Shareef Abdur-Rahim in a trade, they would have to trade Brian Grant to Portland.

Uhh.....DERRRRR!!!:drool:


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

From a Bulls perspective, I'm not so willing to part with F Williams for anyone you guys can trade for him before he can be packaged after December 15.

I would trade Deke for George straight up this offseason though.

I think it would be beneficial for both parties.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

It's not "until Dec. 15". That's the date that newly signed players can be traded. Recently traded players can be traded again 60 days after they are acquired. They can be packaged in a deal if it's within 48 hours of them being traded and they can be traded before those 60 days are up if they are not part of a package deal.


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> It's not "until Dec. 15". That's the date that newly signed players can be traded. Recently traded players can be traded again 60 days after they are acquired. They can be packaged in a deal if it's within 48 hours of them being traded and they can be traded before those 60 days are up if they are not part of a package deal.


So we could theoretically package Deke and F Williams right before the season started?

I was unaware that there was a difference between newly signed and newly acquired in terms of trade restrictions. Thanks for the info!


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## Pan Mengtu (Jun 18, 2004)

> Now you're just making an *** out of yourself.
> 
> He said that there is no PF out there that is better than Grant and that the Lakers could trade for. You responded by saying, "What about Shareef Abdur-Rahim?" For the Lakers to acquire Shareef Abdur-Rahim in a trade, they would have to trade Brian Grant to Portland.


Why would they have to trade Grant? Why?


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Pan Mengtu</b>!
> 
> 
> Why would they have to trade Grant? Why?


A little something called the "salary cap"...


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## Pan Mengtu (Jun 18, 2004)

> A little something called the "salary cap"...


So you're saying Briant Grant is the only player LA can trade for SAR and make the money work?

Haha, wow, you misread a sentence that guy wrote so now you're making up some BS about the salary cap to try and save face. Why not just admit that the guy didn't say the trade would have to involve Grant? You have the pieces to get SAR without trading Grant, and still make it work with the money.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Pan Mengtu</b>!
> 
> 
> So you're saying Briant Grant is the only player LA can trade for SAR and make the money work?
> ...


Well, it's obvious that the Lakers aren't going to trade Mihm and they aren't going to deal Atkins unless they get another PG in return. So what? You're saying a deal like Devean George, Caron Butler, Slava Medvedenko, Kareem Rush, Brian Cook for SAR? That's not happening and it doesn't even work under the cap, I don't believe.

You have no idea what you're talking about, so I suggest you be quiet and leave right now. Stop with the, "You misread, so now you're trying to save yourself" crap. You're wrong, I know exactly what I'm talking about, maybe you're just too slow to follow. Brian Grant would have to be involved in a deal for SAR.


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## svapna (Sep 21, 2002)

Lakers go big:
Vlade, Mihm, Slava
Malone, Grant, Slava, Cook
Butler, George, Walton, Jones
Odom, Rush, George, Sasha
Kobe, Atkins, Sasha


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## Tyrellaphonte (Feb 21, 2004)

that would be sooo ghetto to get barbosa... Im sorry if I havent read this whole thread and theres prolly some people gettin bashed for sayin that...

But barbosa would be perfect to help us. 

Another guy we should go for is Kenny Thomas.
Doubt we could get him...
But he is such a G


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## JYD (Sep 3, 2002)

I love the idea of a Deke+Williams for George+filler trade. The filler could be Bobbitt, so the Bulls can waive him.

*Chicago*
C Eddy Curry...Tyson Chandler...Cezary Trybanski
F Antonio Davis...Othella Harrington...Paul Shirley
F Luol Deng...Devean George...Eddie Robinson...Chris Jefferies
G Andres Nocoini...Scottie Pippen...Linton Johnson
G Kirk Hinrich...Ben Gordan...Jannero Pargo


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## samdge (Feb 3, 2004)

I think it was already mentioned in this thread or another but what about Jameer Nelson. Orlando is set at sg with stevenson and mobley but with grant hill's status unknown could we package george and cook for nelson and declerq or something along those lines. Obviosuly Jameer wouldnt start but we could develop him and sasha at the same time and then trade chucky if the need arises later in the season.

George+Jones+Cook for Nelson+Garrity+Declerq

We may be raping Orlando in this trade, but it could work


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## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>samdge</b>!
> I think it was already mentioned in this thread or another but what about Jameer Nelson. Orlando is set at sg with stevenson and mobley but with grant hill's status unknown could we package george and cook for nelson and declerq or something along those lines. Obviosuly Jameer wouldnt start but we could develop him and sasha at the same time and then trade chucky if the need arises later in the season.
> 
> George+Jones+Cook for Nelson+Garrity+Declerq
> ...


You think?


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## Cris (Jun 18, 2003)

Should We Try For T.J. Ford, Michael Redd And Mike James While We Are At It?????


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## SoCalfan21 (Jul 19, 2004)

i dont think orland is that stupid but i guess they might go for it


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## Cris (Jun 18, 2003)

Orlando Would Never Do That


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## JYD (Sep 3, 2002)

ORL trades
Jameer Nelson...1.1
Stacey Augmon...1.1
Andrew DeClercq...2.8
TOTAL...$4,971,972

LAL trades
The rights to Marcus Douthit
Future 1st round pick
Devean George...4.5
Brian Cook...0.8
TOTAL...$5,309,300

*Orlando Magic*
C Kelvin Cato...Mario Kasun
F Tonie Battie...Dwight Howard...Brian Cook
F Hedo Turkoglu...Devean George...Pat Garrity
G Cuttino Mobley...DeShawn Stevenson
G Steve Francis...Keith Bogans
IR: F Grant Hill...F Britton Johnson...F Michael Bradley

*LA Lakers*
C Vlade Divac...Chris Mihm...Andrew DeClercq
F Brian Grant...Slava Medvedenko
F Lamar Odom...Caron Butler
G Kobe Bryant...Kareem Rush
G Jameer Nelson...Chucky Atkins...Sasha Vujacic
IR: F Stacey Augmon...F Jumaine Jones...F Luke Walton
cut: G Tony Bobbitt

It's not such a bad trade. Orlando will have Francis for a long-time and Bogans played well his rookie year. They won't be hurting that bad without Nelson. I say Kupchak should propose this trade, and then they'll probably laugh in his face but it's worth a try.


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