# JET will play 2, Harris and Johnson to fight for starting position



## StackAttack (Mar 15, 2006)

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=rotowire-asonerryikelytolayho&prov=rotowire&type=lgns


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## xray (Feb 21, 2005)

*Re: Official: JET will play 2, Harris and Johnson to fight for starting position*

I like it, now that we have bolstered our backcourt defensively. Last year, the Mavs would've been too small, imo; but the rotation allows us to make adjustments as needed.

Like the article said, this could make for a big year for Terry. 

(I can't find the DMN reference they mentioned.)


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Official: JET will play 2, Harris and Johnson to fight for starting position*

Bad decision. They're going to get posted out of their socks. At least in Chicago, Hinrich has decent size to guard twos, neither Terry, Johnson, or Harris is capable of guarding the twos of the league, which ultimately leaves our center in a troubling predicament. 

He's either got to constantly come over and help Terry who's getting annilhated on the block, or he's stuck with the open man all the time. Josh can slide down and guard the best 2/3, Dirk will probably have the 3 most nights, which leaves two open slots, and only one capable player (and that's just basing off size, not skill). This type of offense isn't worth trying to run. It's decent to try and run a team out for 10 minutes or so, but I wouldn't start the game with it. 

The only way this is truly effective is if this offense is run for the beginning of the quarters, to try and jump out to a fast start. It shouldn't be a lineup you depend on, which a starting lineup automatically is. Bad move. Harris would be just as good, if not better as a 6th man as Stackhouse, who should be the starting SG. Surprisingly bad move by AJ. I thought he was above gimmicks.


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## xray (Feb 21, 2005)

*Re: Official: JET will play 2, Harris and Johnson to fight for starting position*

Stack incorrectly labelled the thread "Official" - it's not, as the Yahoo source called it "likely".

In my mind, I had seen this as a game by game decision - and as you mentioned, it wouldn't take long for teams to adjust.

But I do see our roster as being flexible enough defensively, as we too can post George and Buckner at the 2.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Official: JET will play 2, Harris and Johnson to fight for starting position*



bray1967 said:


> Stack incorrectly labelled the thread "Official" - it's not, as the Yahoo source called it "likely".
> 
> In my mind, I had seen this as a game by game decision - and as you mentioned, it wouldn't take long for teams to adjust.
> 
> But I do see our roster as being flexible enough defensively, as we too can post George and Buckner at the 2.


 George is incapable of anything but shooting an open shot, but Buckner's a good defender.


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## edwardcyh (Dec 13, 2005)

Thread title corrected.

:cheers:


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## edwardcyh (Dec 13, 2005)

*Re: Official: JET will play 2, Harris and Johnson to fight for starting position*



_Dre_ said:


> George is incapable of anything but shooting an open shot, but Buckner's a good defender.


A little quick to pass judgement on George already, eh?

Nobody thought the mavs could play D.... :angel:


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## Saint Baller (May 3, 2006)

*Re: Official: JET will play 2, Harris and Johnson to fight for starting position*

Ahh man, if this is true, I see the finals all over again


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## MVP™ (Jun 11, 2006)

Are you serious? Jet, 2? oh my..


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Official: JET will play 2, Harris and Johnson to fight for starting position*



edwardcyh said:


> A little quick to pass judgement on George already, eh?
> 
> Nobody thought the mavs could play D.... :angel:


We've seen George play for what, 5 years? Has he ever _been_ inside the three point line?


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## t1no (Jul 10, 2005)

New team, new coach and players so you never know.


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## Saint Baller (May 3, 2006)

I'd like Buck to start. It would give us more of a "real" starting five, it'd have great defense and awsome offense, with Devin starting and Jet at the 2 it limits our defense.


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## t1no (Jul 10, 2005)

I want Buckner to start and i also want Harris to average 30+ minutes a game. Harris needs to step up his game or he has to go.


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## StackAttack (Mar 15, 2006)

As I've always said, I love Harris, but quite honestly after a pretty strong playoffs, now would not be a bad time to trade him and maybe Stack for Joe Johnson or something...


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## inuyasha (Sep 21, 2005)

NO!!!!!
Let Buckner and Terry start! :curse:


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## Saint Baller (May 3, 2006)

I know this line up hasn't been said, but what about

PG Terry
SG Howard
SF George
PF Dirk
C Diop


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

StackAttack said:


> As I've always said, I love Harris, but quite honestly after a pretty strong playoffs, now would not be a bad time to trade him and maybe Stack for Joe Johnson or something...



Never! An almost done stack and Harris is not enough for Joe Johnson


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## Saint Baller (May 3, 2006)

BEEZ, are you serious?! 

Stackhouse is an expiring contract, leaving room to re-sign players for the future, Devin is an excellent point guard with loaded potential, and with Speedy aging he'd be a perfect fit for a team that always passes up on guards in the draft.

I wouldn't do that trade, I like Harris and Stack. Stack brings toughness while Harris is our only true point guard.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

Saint Baller said:


> BEEZ, are you serious?!
> 
> Stackhouse is an expiring contract, leaving room to re-sign players for the future, Devin is an excellent point guard with loaded potential, and with Speedy aging he'd be a perfect fit for a team that always passes up on guards in the draft.
> 
> I wouldn't do that trade, I like Harris and Stack. Stack brings toughness while Harris is our only true point guard.


 I'm definitley serious, I didnt know you were aging at 27 soon to be 28, regardless Atlanta will have cap space once again next offseason and there wont be a Joe Johnson type of SG on the market in the next 2 seasons. Atlanta would pass every time


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## Saint Baller (May 3, 2006)

Okay, I kinda messed up there haha, it seems like Speedy has been in the league for a while, I go and look at his profile and he's only been there for 6 years.


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## VeN (May 10, 2005)

StackAttack said:


> As I've always said, I love Harris, but quite honestly after a pretty strong playoffs, now would not be a bad time to trade him and maybe Stack for Joe Johnson or something...


Joe Johnson? 

Im speechless.


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## t1no (Jul 10, 2005)

VeN said:


> Joe Johnson?
> 
> Im speechless.


First of all, huge contract and i thought he left the Suns because he wanted to be tha MAN?.


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## VeN (May 10, 2005)

t1no said:


> First of all, huge contract and i thought he left the Suns because he wanted to be tha MAN?.


quoting the wrong poster maam


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## t1no (Jul 10, 2005)

VeN said:


> quoting the wrong poster maam


haha i didn't mean anything by it, i do it a lot.


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## StackAttack (Mar 15, 2006)

I'm really high on Johnson after watching him on Team USA. I just think he's the sharp-shooting specialist we need. With Dirk undoubtedly transitioning to more of a post-game this season and with threes not exactly being Josh's speciality, the only reliable shooter we have is JET, and he can get streaky, as he showed in the Finals. I'm not saying we need Joe Johnson, for contract reasons or whatever, but we need someone like him - someone who plays GREAT defense (something I was really impressed by during the Worlds), someone who can pull up from three and be expected to knock it down, and someone who can get to the rim nicely and be expected to finish.

That said, we may have this guy already on our team.

Devin Harris. No secret he's been working on his jumpshot as of late. I think it was DLord that reported that on Locker Cleanout day, Avery had an extremely long one-on-one talk with Devin in his office, undoubtedly about improving his jumpshot. I don't think he can be expected to become a specialist during an offseason, but who knows. Michael Redd, who came into the league known for his defense, did it. Greg Buckner was also known for his defense during his first tenure as a Maverick, but lacked shooting ability - something he fixed in an off-season. LeBron and D-Wade definitely weren't exactly snipers from downtown during their rookie seasons, but they're their teams' go-to guys for everything. Can Devin begin to consistantly knock down that jumpshot? I already know that he's a tireless defender, saw it in the Finals. I already know he can get to the rim and finish an acrobatic shot. But with Devin Harris, the question is the jumpshot. 

If Devin Harris can become the player I described as a necessity for this team, I'm all for keeping him. His amazing efforts in the SA series are a monumental part of the reason we're the reigning Western Conference Champions. But if Avery's watching him in these 800-jumpshot-a-day workouts and he's still not pleased...Devin's market value is high right now. Remember when on a fastbreak against San Antonio the TNT camera couldn't even keep up with him? It's stuff like that the league remembers. If we're going to trade Devin, trade him now. If we're not...then he better show up in 06-07.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

StackAttack said:


> I'm really high on Johnson after watching him on Team USA. I just think he's the sharp-shooting specialist we need. With Dirk undoubtedly transitioning to more of a post-game this season and with threes not exactly being Josh's speciality, the only reliable shooter we have is JET, and he can get streaky, as he showed in the Finals. I'm not saying we need Joe Johnson, for contract reasons or whatever, but we need someone like him - someone who plays GREAT defense (something I was really impressed by during the Worlds), someone who can pull up from three and be expected to knock it down, and someone who can get to the rim nicely and be expected to finish.
> 
> That said, we may have this guy already on our team.
> 
> ...


 
Good post, and with the Devin Harris situation, that's usually the policy I always would abide by. If you're considering trading a guy, you have pieces that could fill his place, and he's got high market value, it makes less sense to play the "show me what you got one last time" game. We might as well start moving with trade talks, so even if we wait later/after the season, we'll have teams we've talked to, and it doesn't hold up the offseason or anything. 

If we were to get a 2 though, Joe Johnson would be a nice fit. I don't know how his postup game is, but hopefully it's good enough to where we could get some 2 man action going with him and a guy like Josh or Stack, who aren't the best shooters. 

Call me crazy, but I'm definitely starting to wish we had dealt for Ron Artest. We'd be in so much better a predicament right now it'd be crazy. If we had traded Terry for him, we'd have Harris, Howard, and him starting. That's an absolute shutdown perimeter when Harris develops. That would've masked a lot of our deficiencies in the post, as well as inflated Diop's impact, as he could conserve enough to play great defense at spot situations. But that never happened, so this is all useless.


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## t1no (Jul 10, 2005)

They wanted Howard for Artest.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

t1no said:


> They wanted Howard for Artest.


 You ever heard of negotiating? And even still, Artest, Harris, and Buckned is a strong defensive front. :whoknows:


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## StackAttack (Mar 15, 2006)

t1no said:


> They wanted Howard for Artest.


I know I've brought that up countless times when talking about how valuable Josh Howard is to us, but after reading Dre's post...I almost wish we took the offer.


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## t1no (Jul 10, 2005)

_Dre_ said:


> You ever heard of negotiating? And even still, Artest, Harris, and Buckned is a strong defensive front. :whoknows:


Artest for Terry? why negotiate? no way the Pacers would agree to that. and yes Stackattack i really wanted Artest for Howard also.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

t1no said:


> Artest for Terry? why negotiate? no way the Pacers would agree to that. and yes Stackattack i really wanted Artest for Howard also.


 You don't know that. Tinsley was a question mark at the time, Johnson was the best point guard, and he's best as a backup. Terry was in his best year (and expiring), and also consider that Artest was in the doghouse, but I know I'm wasting my time because you'll just disagree.


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## t1no (Jul 10, 2005)

I would just diagree? ahh you went there again and i don't want to prove you wrong AGAIN, so i am going to let it go. 
They had Sarunas Jasikevicius and Anthony Johnson playing the PG spot.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

t1no said:


> I would just diagree? ahh you went there again and i don't want to prove you wrong AGAIN, so i am going to let it go.
> They had Sarunas Jasikevicius and Anthony Johnson playing the PG spot.


 And like I said, Saru wasn't a true PG, and Johnson was not a starter. And who says the deal had to stop at Terry, we could've added another piece to it. Bottomline I was just being hypothetical, and again, like you always do you have something to say about it.


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## StackAttack (Mar 15, 2006)

Why the argument? I would've given them Josh Howard for Ron Artest. A lineup of Devin - Jet - Ron - Dirk - Diop with Ron on Wade wins us the ship in 06. I actually would have preferred that; Jet's clutch plays got us through the playoffs more than anything Josh did during the postseason especially the Finals.


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## t1no (Jul 10, 2005)

_Dre_ said:


> Bottomline I was just being hypothetical, and again, like you always do you have something to say about it.


ummh, do i have to pm you the link of the last thread where we had an arguement? Check your pm, and please read it.


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## t1no (Jul 10, 2005)

StackAttack said:


> Why the argument? I would've given them Josh Howard for Ron Artest. A lineup of Devin - Jet - Ron - Dirk - Diop with Ron on Wade wins us the ship in 06. I actually would have preferred that; Jet's clutch plays got us through the playoffs more than anything Josh did during the postseason especially the Finals.


I agree with your post.


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## VeN (May 10, 2005)

StackAttack said:


> I'm really high on Johnson after watching him on Team USA. I just think he's the sharp-shooting specialist we need. With Dirk undoubtedly transitioning to more of a post-game this season and with threes not exactly being Josh's speciality, the only reliable shooter we have is JET, and he can get streaky, as he showed in the Finals. I'm not saying we need Joe Johnson, for contract reasons or whatever, but we need someone like him - someone who plays GREAT defense (something I was really impressed by during the Worlds), someone who can pull up from three and be expected to knock it down, and someone who can get to the rim nicely and be expected to finish.
> 
> That said, we may have this guy already on our team.
> 
> ...



while this is all true, I still wouldnt trade him. He has the potential to become at least the next Nash.


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## StackAttack (Mar 15, 2006)

VeN said:


> while this is all true, I still wouldnt trade him. He has the potential to become at least the next Nash.


Not sure if you've noticed in the past 2 years, but Devin doesn't have much playmaking ability, and I don't care about potential. Devin Harris was the #5 pick of the 2004 NBA Draft and he damn right better act like it next season. Dwight Howard, Emeka Okafor, Ben Gordon, Shaun Livingston, Josh Childress, Andre Iguodala, Josh Smith, JR Smith, Jameer Nelson, Kevin Martin, Anderson Varejao, Luol Deng, Andres Nocioni...all were members of the 2004 class (most were picked after him, Nocioni wasn't picked at all) and all have surpassed Devin. Hell Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Raymond Felton, Charlie Villanueva, and Channing Frye have surpassed him and they're coming off of their rookie seasons. The only reason I'm not out-right demanding we trade Devin (other than the fact that he's one of my favorite players because of his penetration) is because he got us past the defending champs. Devin Harris absolutely must show up in 06-07.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

StackAttack said:


> Not sure if you've noticed in the past 2 years, but Devin doesn't have much playmaking ability, and I don't care about potential. Devin Harris was the #5 pick of the 2004 NBA Draft and he damn right better act like it next season. Dwight Howard, Emeka Okafor, Ben Gordon, Shaun Livingston, Josh Childress, Andre Iguodala, Josh Smith, JR Smith, Jameer Nelson, Kevin Martin, Anderson Varejao, Luol Deng, Andres Nocioni...all were members of the 2004 class (most were picked after him, Nocioni wasn't picked at all) and all have surpassed Devin. Hell Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Raymond Felton, Charlie Villanueva, and Channing Frye have surpassed him and they're coming off of their rookie seasons. The only reason I'm not out-right demanding we trade Devin (other than the fact that he's one of my favorite players because of his penetration) is because he got us past the defending champs. Devin Harris absolutely must show up in 06-07.


 Furthermore, as the big ten POY, he had an argument for the most ready prospect in that draft. I've been patient with him, but after reading that post with all those names, I'm kind of angry.


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## StackAttack (Mar 15, 2006)

More than just that, Dre.

** Named Wisconsin state player of the year by the AP in 2001.
* Named Wisconsin Mr. Basketball in 2001.
* Named All-Big Ten 2nd Team by the coaches and All-Big Ten 3rd Team by the media in 2003.
* Led the Big Ten in steals in 2003. *(Where the hell is _this_ Devin?)*
* Named Big Ten Player of the Year in 2004. 
* Named to the All-Big Ten 1st Team.
* Named Big Ten tournament Most Outstanding Player in 2004.
* Won the Big Ten tournament with Wisconsin in 2004.
* Named 2nd Team All-America in 2004.*


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

StackAttack said:


> More than just that, Dre.
> 
> ** Named Wisconsin state player of the year by the AP in 2001.
> * Named Wisconsin Mr. Basketball in 2001.
> ...


 Livingston, Martin, Varejao, and Childress haven't surpassed him at all though IMO.


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## StackAttack (Mar 15, 2006)

_Dre_ said:


> Livingston, Martin, Varejao, and Childress haven't surpassed him at all though IMO.


If you didn't watch the Clippers' playoff games, I understand why you'd think Livingston, the pick right before Devin, hasn't surpassed him. The only thing I can honestly say Devin does better than Livingston is shoot, which is pretty sorry considering Devin has no form whatsoever.

Kevin Martin? In the first round against San Antonio, Martin started and averaged: 13.2 PPG (more than Devin), .33 TO (less than Devin), 5 RPG (more than Devin), .5 SPG (less than Devin). Not to mention, his points included a VERY impressive game-winner and he went 29/29 from the charity stripe in the first round whereas Devin went 52/74 in four.

Anderson Varejao...lots of potential more than anything, but IMO what he's done for the Cavs is more valuable than anything Devin's done for us lately.

And Childress is great defensively, and 5.2 rebounds is a pretty good number for a guard-forward. Not to mention the man shot nearly 50% from 3 and over 55% overall on his way to 10 PPG. 

Whatever, this is pretty off topic anyway.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

StackAttack said:


> If you didn't watch the Clippers' playoff games, I understand why you'd think Livingston, the pick right before Devin, hasn't surpassed him. The only thing I can honestly say Devin does better than Livingston is shoot, which is pretty sorry considering Devin has no form whatsoever.
> 
> *If we're going by playoffs alone, than Devin blows him out of the water, dismantling a championship defense on his own at times. Harris is a better scorer and defender than Livingston, which right now beats out his superior vision.*
> 
> ...


..


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## StackAttack (Mar 15, 2006)

I guess we just have a difference in opinion on most of the things, except where you talk about .33 TO's not making a difference...yeah it does when Devin's out there averaging nearly 2 a game.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

StackAttack said:


> I guess we just have a difference in opinion on most of the things, except where you talk about .33 TO's not making a difference...yeah it does when Devin's out there averaging nearly 2 a game.


 .33 might be like one less in...3 or 4 games. It's not really important. And Childress isn't handling the ball as much as Harris. One of his knocks is his ballhandling.


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## StackAttack (Mar 15, 2006)

On Childress, sure, but I was referring to Kevin Martin.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

Hmm, seem to have gotten confused. Even still, the same applies, but not to as much of an extent.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

Did I really read that people want to post-up Devean George?

Where have you gone old powerful Dallas offense?


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## StackAttack (Mar 15, 2006)

It's because we're all delusional post-Finals Mavs fans.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

Who said Devean George could post up?


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

_Dre_ said:


> Who said Devean George could post up?


Read earlier in this thread. Some posters wanted to post up George and Buckner.

George once posted up Wesley Person in the final two minutes in a game versus Atlanta and Phil benched him in the next game for "playing outside his limits." This was when he was the Lakers 6th man as well.


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## Seed (Jun 29, 2005)

^lol

I'll take Devin, the guy is only what 23/24 now he reminds me of tony parker before last season. With a little better defense. I think this year Devin will have a break out year way more playing time and I think he's starting to get more confidence in him


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

George has never even walked inside the three point line, so posting up is out of the question. We actually want to win games this year.


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## M3Man (Oct 4, 2006)

Harris bashers. Were you watching his 1st 2 seasons?

Did you notice Nellie starting him then yanking his chain, benching him for breathing out of the wrong side of his mouth? Add in the injuries, the DNP-CD's, the change of coach and philosophy and you get a totally wasted season. Last year, he missed 25 or 30 games to injuries. All told, Chris Paul played more minutes in 1 year than Harris did in 2.

Rookies on bad teams usually start and often star because they are among the most talented on their teams. It is absolutly unfair to compare their stats to a Devin Harris, joining a very good team with a 8 million dollar point guard playing in front of him. In OKC-NO,Paul is the center of everything, the offense to the coaches attention. Harris, by comparison, as a rookie, was an afterthought.

Despite all that, the kid comes off missing 25 games with an injury and forces SA to change its style and trade its centers. Unless you're getting Joe Johnson straight up for him, it makes more sense to wait and give the kid a chance. True, this should be the year, but you can't ignore the reality of the previous 2.


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## StackAttack (Mar 15, 2006)

Welcome to the boards. :banana: 

And I'm not saying it's Harris's fault he hasn't broken out yet. It's probably mostly Nellie's. Devin's an emotional guy and that yanking the chain thing definitely hurt his confidence.


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## xray (Feb 21, 2005)

M3Man said:


> Harris bashers. Were you watching his 1st 2 seasons?
> 
> Did you notice Nellie starting him then yanking his chain, benching him for breathing out of the wrong side of his mouth? Add in the injuries, the DNP-CD's, the change of coach and philosophy and you get a totally wasted season. Last year, he missed 25 or 30 games to injuries. All told, Chris Paul played more minutes in 1 year than Harris did in 2.
> 
> ...


That's how I feel, but what I wanted to see was more of a solid effort worthy of a top 5 pick - regardless of how the coach treats him. Sure, he's fast as a bullet, but why wait until he sees court time to start shooting jumpers?

Fragility equates to early retirement in the No Babies Allowed.


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