# Minnesota Timberwolves 2008-2009 Off-Season Thread



## Ruff Draft

Well now that the draft is over, and we are waiting for our new jerseys. What do you see us doing in the off-season? Who do we trade? Who do we sign? What will our opening day line-up look like? Let's use this thread as a discussion of everything relating to the Timberwolves off-season.

We have extended offers to Craig Smith, Chris Richard and Ryan Gomes. They'll all be back next year at least for a little while. I can see Smith being moved, but I can't really think of a deal right now. Telfair may also be back. Minnesota has said they would like him to return, but not for MLE money. I can't see many teams chasing after him so I would bet on him returning.
---

In free agency I would really like for us to look at a back-up point guard, and a scrappy center. I would really like one with size and a decent offensive game, but you can't have everything!

The names Chris Duhon and Diop have been thrown out there. I highly doubt we have a chance at both of them, and maybe we don't get either of them. Those are two guys I would like us to pursue however. Maybe Anthony Johnson as back-up veteran? He's always been a good role player. Patrick O'Bryant has been a name we use too. I would be all for that singing if it was cheap. Maybe a 2-year deal so it ends when the other fat contracts do. Give him plenty of burn and see what he's got.

Randy Foye is out starting PG until he proves he can't do it. Brewer and Miller complement each other on the wing so that would be my pick. Al Jefferson is of course starting. I don't expect Love to start right out of the gates, but he will get plenty of burn. I really think Wittman will start Collins at the 5 to bring his garbage game to complement Al. Jefferson is done playing the 5 in my book, and Kevin could hold it down well against smaller teams. If he proves us wrong which I believe he will, he'll start more.

Sooo...

Foye/ Telfair*Duhon*/*Johnson*
Brewer/ McCants
Miller/ Gomes
Jefferson/ Smith
Collins/ Love/ *Diop*/ *O'bryant*

and/or

Foye/ Telfair*Duhon*/*Johnson*
Brewer/ McCants
Miller/ Gomes
Jefferson/ Smith
Love/ Collins/ *Diop*/ *O'bryant*


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## Mateo

*Re: Minnesota Timberwolves Off-Season Thread*

Our goal for next year should be to make the playoffs. With that in mind we have to sign some people in the offseason. And not project guys like O'Bryant. Guys who can contribute right now. I'm not going to guess on who that might be because I know this organization and we aren't going to do anything trade-wise. My preferred rotation would be:

Foye / Telfair
Miller / McCants
Gomes / Brewer / Cardinal
Smith / Love
Jefferson / Collins


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## luther

*Re: Minnesota Timberwolves Off-Season Thread*

I would love to acquire Duhon, although I don't know how interested he'd be in Minnesota. But I think he's both the 3pt shooter and true (strong on-the-ball defensive) PG we could really use, especially if we don't re-sign Telfair. To a certain extent, I'm curious about Shaun Livingston, whom I understand the Clippers aren't extending the ($5+ million) qualifying offer, making him unrestricted. But of course I wouldn't offer him anything significant, due to injury concerns. As for Diop, I am moderately interested, but not for much money. He's a nice defender and rebounder, but his offense is really atrocious, so I see him as just a better Jason Collins.


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## Mateo

*Re: Minnesota Timberwolves Off-Season Thread*

As for PG, we could try to sign Jason Williams, but I don't think he'd come here. I'd also like to see us go after Bonzi Wells, that would solve our "starting SF" problem.


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## luther

*Re: Minnesota Timberwolves Off-Season Thread*



Mateo said:


> I'd also like to see us go after Bonzi Wells, that would solve our "starting SF" problem.


Are you serious? The historical Bonzi Wells, maybe. But his production (even per 36 minutes) is down in recent years, and a 32-year-old, 6-5 small forward isn't going to improve defensively, either. I'd rather start Gomes, who produces very similar numbers, is bigger, is younger and shoots a better percentage.


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## luther

*Re: Minnesota Timberwolves Off-Season Thread*



Mateo said:


> As for PG, we could try to sign Jason Williams, but I don't think he'd come here.


On that note, the Memphis Commercial-Appeal has reported that Jason Williams is telling people in the Memphis area that he'll be back there next season. As to why they would possibly have any interest in him at this point (unless they move one of their young points), I have no idea.


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## jokeaward

*Re: Minnesota Timberwolves Off-Season Thread*

Bonzi Wells is a poor man's Ricky Davis.


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## Avalanche

*Re: Minnesota Timberwolves Off-Season Thread*



luther said:


> On that note, the Memphis Commercial-Appeal has reported that Jason Williams is telling people in the Memphis area that he'll be back there next season. As to why they would possibly have any interest in him at this point (unless they move one of their young points), I have no idea.


that was from before the trade i believe, he said his ties with Mike Miller could take him back to memphis... all has probably changed now


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## luther

*Re: Minnesota Timberwolves Off-Season Thread*



Avalanche said:


> that was from before the trade i believe, he said his ties with Mike Miller could take him back to memphis... all has probably changed now


Was it? I didn't realize it was pre-trade. Well, maybe it becomes a good possibility here again, then, if those ties are so strong. I wouldn't mind him as a bit of insurance at that spot, as long as he was really interested in being here and not overpaid. (I'd prefer Duhon or a reasonably priced Udrih, though.)


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## Ruff Draft

*Re: Minnesota Timberwolves Off-Season Thread*

Jason Williams? Bonzi Wells? Get serious.


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## Mateo

*Re: Minnesota Timberwolves Off-Season Thread*

maybe those two are a little past their prime but the point is that we need proven veterans not projects who are likely busts like O'Bryant.


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## Mateo

*Re: Minnesota Timberwolves Off-Season Thread*

Matt Barnes and Mickael Pietrus are both unrestricted this year, we should definitely go after one of those (I'd go with Barnes since he's a little better on offense). Sasha Vujacic and Nenad Krstic are restricted free agents who'd probably go for fairly cheap. Especially Krstic who had a crummy season and has a couple of younger centers on his squad.


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## luther

*Re: Minnesota Timberwolves Off-Season Thread*

Krstic is a guy I like a lot, but considering he's something of a skill-finesse, offensive minded guy, I'm not sure he's the best fit. On the other hand, beggars can't really be choosers, and we've got not a lot up front, so I wouldn't be against that, either. I agree on Barnes, for a couple reasons over Pietrus specifically. One, he's really intelligent on the court at both ends. Two, he's a versatile guy, a good passer, decent rebounder ... just a quality glue guy. Pietrus seems like a guy whose whole career has been based on athleticism and promise, and at a certain point unfulfilled promise turns into wasted talent. Some of that may be due to him always having other talented guys on his teams, but it might say something how many different guys have beaten him out at the 2 and 3 over the years: Jason Richardson, sure. Stephen Jackson. Mike Dunleavy. Monta Ellis. Kelenna Azubuike. Matt Barnes. Just seemed like anyone they brought in was ahead of him.


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## luther

*Re: Minnesota Timberwolves Off-Season Thread*



Mateo said:


> maybe those two are a little past their prime but the point is that we need proven veterans not projects who are likely busts like O'Bryant.


I agree. I'm not particularly sold on those two specifically--although I'm not specifically opposed to them, either--but we aren't as bad as some people think, and we're not in a position to load up the remaining spots solely on young, unproven players. We've got some very legit talent and could be closer to that last playoff spot than people think if all goes perfectly. Not likely, but possible.


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## Ruff Draft

*Re: Minnesota Timberwolves Off-Season Thread*

How would you guys feel about maybe Craig Smith/ McCants/ Filler trade for Varejao? We get a scrappy defensive guy who can back-up our front-court. Cleveland would love more firepower from either one of those guys.


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## luther

*Re: Minnesota Timberwolves Off-Season Thread*



Ruff Draft said:


> How would you guys feel about maybe Craig Smith/ McCants/ Filler trade for Varejao? We get a scrappy defensive guy who can back-up our front-court. Cleveland would love more firepower from either one of those guys.


I'd like Varejao here. And I'd be very open to moving Smith especially in a sign-and-trade because even though I know a lot of people here like the idea of keeping him, I don't see that as a great option: he's just too limited in his usefulness, and those strengths are duplicative of our best player's. I don't know what Smith is going to be seeking on the free agent market, but considering Varejao is at something like $5.7, it wouldn't take much. McCants is at $2.6 or so, meaning another $3 million would make it an even match--and it only has to be within 25%. Odd as it sounds coming from me, though, if we could keep McCants, I'd probably prefer to, at least unless we re-sign Snyder (and maybe regardless). We don't have a lot of guys who can hit from the outside and beat their men off the dribble, and he is one.


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## Mateo

*Re: Minnesota Timberwolves Off-Season Thread*

I like that deal in January. I don't want to rid of Smith before we know that Love can be a starter and can provide low post scoring.


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## jokeaward

*Re: Minnesota Timberwolves Off-Season Thread*

McCants plus Smith or just one?

Anderson Varejao is not McCants better than Smith, be reasonable. Smith doesn't hustle?


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## luther

*Re: Minnesota Timberwolves Off-Season Thread*



jokeaward said:


> Smith doesn't hustle?


I don't think anyone thinks Smith doesn't hustle. But he is a very poor defender (not to mention very short for his position), and he is really selfish offensively. So yes, he's a great post scorer and rebounder, but I believe he's a guy whose stats are better than his game sometimes. I see what Mateo is saying about holding off, but I don't think we can deal him other than in a sign-and-trade. Once a player takes the qualifying offer, he has the power to approve or reject trades and is forced to give up his chance at Bird rights. And if someone else signs him and we match, I believe we cannot trade him for one year.


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## Ruff Draft

*Re: Minnesota Timberwolves Off-Season Thread*

Craig Smith is an offesnvie frontcourt guy off the bench. He'll score, and rebound. He is a mini-Randolph with a good head. Maybe one day he'll get a better passing game and focus more on D.


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## Ruff Draft

I could actually take Jason Williams for cheap off the bench. He is great friends with Mike Miller, and would be fine off the bench.


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## Mateo

*Re: Minnesota Timberwolves Off-Season Thread*

Jefferson is a mini Randolph, that is a good comparison. But he doesn't get paid like Randolph or have any entitlement problems. I think I'm the only person here who likes Smith, I guess because he's the only draft pick we've had post-Joe Smith that didn't underachieve.


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## luther

You think you're the only one? I think everyone likes him--seems that way to me, anyway. I even like him somewhat, although I've been the biggest proponent to a S/T with him.


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## jokeaward

No, Smith is a mini Randolph. Jefferson is no smaller and is better, though Zach had his seasons.


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## luther

jokeaward said:


> No, Smith is a mini Randolph. Jefferson is no smaller and is better, though Zach had his seasons.


I think based on context that Mateo meant Smith, too, and just made a typo.


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## jokeaward

luther said:


> I think based on context that Mateo meant Smith, too, and just made a typo.


Jefferson, Smith... maybe we can throw in a Hamilton; he wrote a lot back then, didn't he?


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## Mateo

I meant Smith, sorry wasn't thinking straight at the moment.


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## Damian Necronamous

So what does Minnesota's roster look like at the moment?

PG: Randy Foye
SG: Rashad McCants
SF: Mike Miller...Corey Brewer...Brian Cardinal
PF: Kevin Love...Ryan Gomes...Craig Smith...Mark Madsen
C: Al Jefferson...Jason Collins...Chris Richard

It's gonna be unreal how bad they are next season. They might as well try to ship out McCants, Smith along with the contracts of Cardinal and Madsen in search of a big expiring. Cleveland might do that for Wally. At least that would make room for Brandon Jennings or DeRozan in 09-10...Minnesota is going to be so bad next year...


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## luther

Damian Necronamous said:


> So what does Minnesota's roster look like at the moment?
> 
> PG: Randy Foye
> SG: Rashad McCants
> SF: Mike Miller...Corey Brewer...Brian Cardinal
> PF: Kevin Love...Ryan Gomes...Craig Smith...Mark Madsen
> C: Al Jefferson...Jason Collins...Chris Richard
> 
> It's gonna be unreal how bad they are next season. They might as well try to ship out McCants, Smith along with the contracts of Cardinal and Madsen in search of a big expiring. Cleveland might do that for Wally. At least that would make room for Brandon Jennings or DeRozan in 09-10...Minnesota is going to be so bad next year...


Gomes, Smith and Richard are all restricted free agents, and so you can't really quite include them yet. But I don't see any reason to tank in the hopes that the next generation of high school stars could turn anything around. After all, Collins, Jefferson, Love, Miller and McCants were all extremely well regarded as high schoolers, and now they're the guys who you say are horrible. The only thing worse than a proven mediocre player is the mistaken belief in an unproven player, I think. You can't just assume that a guy like Derozan--who seems to be lacking in actual basketball skills, from what I've seen, and mostly just an athlete--is going to be so great. He's certainly not worth tanking for.


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## Mateo

no, don't tank, try to make the playoffs next year. i agree that our roster is junk but trading away our not-so-bad players won't turn that around. i don't see any point in freeing cap space, who wants to go to one of the worst teams in the league. guys just wanting to get paid, not guys trying to win.


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## luther

Well, so much for the Diop discussions: ESPN reports that he has agreed to a deal with Dallas for their full midlevel.


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## The Solution

Ruff Draft said:


> I could actually take Jason Williams for cheap off the bench. He is great friends with Mike Miller, and would be fine off the bench.


Dear god no, Jason Williams would ruin our young guys attitudes.


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## jokeaward

Jason Williams is a toad.


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## luther

Craig Smith has said he may have an agreement with whatever team he chooses--and his agent says he has several offers, no surprise--by Monday. However, our week to match doesn't begin ticking till July 9.


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## luther

The Fort-Worth Star Telegram reports that the Wolves (among about half a dozen teams) have expressed "keen interest" in Devean George. Homecoming, nice story, etc. ... but I sure hope not. Not unless it's for the veterans' minimum, which I'm sure it wouldn't be. And it would be especially tragic if we let Gomes go and treated George as some sort of replacement. No, this team does not need Devean George taking minutes from the likes of Brewer, Gomes or Miller.


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## JuX

I'd rather keep Gomes than signing George. 

We don't know about the status of the Sebastian Telfair signing. If Bassy is gone, who will replace him? Foye is the only point guard listed. Any decent back up available?


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## luther

Telfair is definitely looking around the league, so it's nowhere near a sure bet that he returns. Plus, with Minnesota not even extending the qualifying offer (to retain rights to him as a restricted free agents), it had to be a bit of a slap in the face. Basically, "we think we can sign you for less than the qualifying offer ... loser." (OK, that's an overstatement, but it's the message it sent.) Orlando, New York, Phoenix and others have been looking for backups, and NY specifically has had a lot to say about Bassy.


> intentional fake quote to break up paragraph. clever, eh? **** you, wine-in-keyboard


 Basically, the best on the market in my opinion is Chris Duhon, who is reportedly down to NY or Orlando (3 years, $10 million). Beno Udrih is looking for a starting spot and the full midlevel. Shaun Livingston is coming off serious, serious injuries. Carlos Arroyo might work out. Jason Williams is well past his prime, but available. Keyon Dooling is interesting, a strong defender and a pretty good team guy, but is getting interest from other teams, such as Miami. As always, PG and C are the two spots that are thinnest on the market ... and that's what we need.


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## MrJayremmie

Keep your head up Minnesota. You guys will be ok. I kinda like your roster. I think that Foye, Miller, Love and Jefferson is actually a nice start. If Brewer works out you got a nice starting line-up, that minus Miller is really young and you can build on.

Good luck next year. Its good to see the fans that stick with their team no matter what. Its you type of fans that will get the most satisfaction when the T'wolves are kickin' *** and taking names in the future.

Later.


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## luther

It cracks me up how many times I've seen Miller excluded as part of a core we can build on, or phrases like "young players, and Miller in the short-term," etc. He's 28! That's really the beginning of a player's prime, or the early stages, anyway. Really, we can count on him to be as good as he is now (barring injuries) for another three years or so, and even after that he's going to remain a useful NBA player because he's a relatively tall wing who can hit the 3. He's three to six years older than most of our "young" players! It's not like we've got George Mikan coupled with a bunch of rookies. Now, I realize that his contract is up after two seasons, and of course it's possible we'd look to use cap relief rather than re-sign him. But that's hardly a foregone conclusion, especially if he's as productive as he has recently been and half as interested in being here as he says he is. He could remain a veteran presence on this team for another six years, easy. And that's as long or longer than our young, alleged core may be here anyway. It's not like it's common in today's NBA for teams of youngsters to grow up and mature together on the same team. Look at the early 00s LA Clippers. Ooh, dominant for the next decade? Nope, a soon-to-be-scattered collection. Quentin Richardson, Corey Maggette, Darius Miles, Lamar Odom, Andre Miller, Michael Olowokandi. How long were they all there? One year, I think (Miller's only year there). For the rest of them, just a couple. Miller is as much a part of this team and its core as any of the young guys.


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## MrJayremmie

Yea, but by the time that your young players (lets say 20-23 years old) are in their prime and you guys are ready to make a nice push, lets say 5-6 years down the road once they are in their prime, miller will be 33-34. That is what i'm basing it on.

Miller is a good player and will be for a while, but he will be on the decline and probably a contract ya'll would wanna trade in 5 years, imo.


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## luther

MrJayremmie said:


> Yea, but by the time that your young players (lets say 20-23 years old) are in their prime and you guys are ready to make a nice push, lets say 5-6 years down the road once they are in their prime, miller will be 33-34. That is what i'm basing it on.
> 
> Miller is a good player and will be for a while, but he will be on the decline and probably a contract ya'll would wanna trade in 5 years, imo.


Al Jefferson, 23; Randy Foye, 24; Ryan Gomes, 25; Craig Smith, 24; Rashad McCants, 23; Corey Brewer, 22; Sebastian Telfair, 23. Other than Kevin Love (19), those guys are all within two or three years of entering their primes. And yes, of course Miller will be further along than them, but not over the hill by any means--even in five years he's going to be more than competent, barring injuries. Besides, planning for five years down the line with an existing roster is a fine way to **** up the present, in my opinion. There is no way the whole core is here in five years. If we still have three or four of those aforementioned key guys going into the 2013-14 season, I'd be absolutely shocked.


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## MrJayremmie

Alright man, whatever floats your boat.

Mike Miller! THE FUTURE!


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## luther

MrJayremmie said:


> Alright man, whatever floats your boat.
> 
> Mike Miller! THE FUTURE!


The present and potentially near and reasonable-term future, yes. The distant future is distant. I'd say that floats my boat, but I hate that saying, so I won't. No boat. No float.


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## MrJayremmie

floating boats is overrated anyway, imo.


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## luther

Sinking them might be kind of cool. But I'm pretty sure you can get in trouble for it.


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## MrJayremmie

sinking boats > floating boats definitely.


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## luther

All boats aside, anybody have thoughts on which of the free agents on our summer league team, if any, should be kept for the regular season? (I'm not going to count Chris Richard in this, because it's all but assured he'll be back, so that's obvious.) They are: Blake Ahearn, Pooh Jeter, Drew Neitzel, Bryce Taylor, Vincent Grier, Dan Coleman and Longar Longar. To be honest, I don't think any of them is worth a whole much investment at the NBA level. I've only seen a little of Ahearn and Jeter, so I can't speak much about them. Grier has looked good at times, but his utter lack of a jumpshot makes him sketchy. Taylor seems to have the ability, but never really stood out as much as he should have in the Pac-10, so it seems a reach to think he would now. Neitzel just strikes me as a good college guard who would be at best a deep, deep NBA reserve--probably better suited for a good European career. Coleman and Longar can go to hell. I look at this as yet another wasted summer roster. It seems the Wolves don't even care about their summer rosters. Frankly, I'm surprised they didn't bring in even more locals and Iowa big guys. That seems to be their traditional modus operandi.


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## Ruff Draft

Rumor floating around and it was aired on television that we will be acquiring Brandan Wright in three-way deal.


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## luther

Ruff Draft said:


> Rumor floating around and it was aired on television that we will be acquiring Brandan Wright in three-way deal.


Where did you see that? I checked the Star Tribune, Contra Costa Times and Hoopshype and didn't see anything. Any other details?


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## Ruff Draft

luther said:


> Where did you see that? I checked the Star Tribune, Contra Costa Times and Hoopshype and didn't see anything. Any other details?


RealGM knows whats up.


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## luther

Link? I'm not seeing it there, either.


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## luther

All I can find about this are message board postings: RealGM, assorted Wolves boards, etc. Not saying that means it isn't true, but it's hard to put a lot of stock in the "I know someone with the team who told me that ..." Anyway, the various rumors being posted say it's Belinelli and Wright, with McCants or Carney moving. The money doesn't match in either of those scenarios, but I'm sure it would include something else. Still, taking on Wright when we've just re-signed Smith and Gomes and drafted Love doesn't make a lot of sense unless there are moves coming in the future once those newly signed guys can be dealt again. Worth looking out for, but odd and not entirely reliable.


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## luther

Anyone notice--or care--that the Bulls released JamesOn Curry? A 6-3 (or thereabouts) combo guard with decent athleticism, better-than-decent outside shooting, nice handle, and good passing skills ... could he become the combo guard the Wolves have been talking about looking for? He could almost certainly be had for the minimum, and thus is no-risk. He didn't play for Chicago last year (they were bad, yes, but also loaded at guard), but averaged about 20 ppg, 5 apg and 3 rpg in the D-league, and was a star at Oklahoma State. Some off-court problems preceded his college career, causing him to go to the Cowboys rather than North Carolina, and there was an embarrassing, although not particularly troublesome, public urination charge last year.


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## Ruff Draft

He'll never touch the ball here. No good for Minne.


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## luther

jbsjhn said:


> I want to start with my favorite NBA team. Milwaukee upgraded its talent level. The Bucks know what they are getting in Jefferson, and Alexander has a chance to be an absolute star in this league. The problem is, they both play the same position. They needed help at forward and they definitely got it.
> ------------


Great, but this is a Timberwolves forum. If you like the Bucks, you can find a forum to discuss them on this site, too.


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## The Solution

Al Jefferson is going to be an All Star now that Elton Brand is in the East. Randy Foye is going to be the most improved player in the league and finally Kevin Love is going to be Rookie of the Yeareace:


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## jokeaward

Any interest in Captain America?


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