# 'Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where Does He End Up? New York!



## TwinkieFoot

It appears as though Melo is intent on changing his address and the Nuggets are reportedly willing to accomodate his desires. Such a move would consquently remove them from any discussions of the West's elite, which makes me think that their supporting cast would be apart of this fire-sale; especially considering the fact that their contractual obligations to the Nuggets are near an end as well. With this in mind, what would you all think of:

*Nuggets Trade:* Carmelo Anthony, Chauncey Billups, Nene Halario
*Nuggets Recieve:* Marvin Williams, Josh Smith/Al Horford (one of the two), Danilo Gallinari, Zaza Pachulia, Jeff Teague, Eddy Curry, cash incentives (via Knicks), the Knicks 2014 and 2016 first round picks.

*Knicks Trade:* Eddy Curry, Danilo Gallinari, Anthony Randolph, cash incentives and the rights to their 2014 and 2016 draft picks.
*Knicks Receive: *Carmelo Anthony

*Hawks Trade: *Marvin Williams, Josh Smith/Al Horford (one of the two), Jeff Teague, Zaza Pachulia
*Hawks Receive:* Chauncey Billups, Anthony Randolph, Nene Halario.





*The Nuggets do this because...*
Chauncey Billups is already 35 years old and can not be useful in a rebuilding situation at that age. A trade for Melo, should immediately be followed by his own. A team like the Hawks would have interest and have enough of a collection of young players (Williams, Smith/Horford) to build a strong foundation in Denver. I honestly think Marvin Williams could be a 20ppg scorer in this league in the ilk of a Danny Granger. 

*The Knicks do this because...*
Do I really have to explain?

*The Hawks do this because...*
They need the heady play and leadership that a player like Chauncey Billups provides, especially at a weak PG position. Nene on the other hand, provides the length and defensive ability necessary for the Hawks to keep up with the Jones' in the East, who have improved appreciably. I also believe that Anthony Randolph gives them much of the shot-blocking/defensive ability lost in Josh Smith but at the 3 position where it would be much more appropriate.


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## Ballscientist

*Re: The Melo Situation...*

one question only:

How many games will Nuggets win this season and the next 3 seasons?


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## TwinkieFoot

*Re: The Melo Situation...*

I think the Nuggets would end up with a very cluttered front-court but I think a secondary trade could effectively clear it out. It's really a shame the Hornets moved Darren Collison because he'd be a perfect fit for the Nuggets, in an exchange for Danilo and Teague.

Another idea might be to ship Gallinari, JR Smith and Teague to the Nets in exchange for Terrence Williams, Jordan Farmer and cap filler. 

The Nets originally wanted Gallinari in the 2008 draft and need his ability to stretch the defense for Harris and Lopez to operate. 

The Nuggets need a more capable 2 guard with the cornerstones of the franchise gone. Smith is a malcontent for the Nuggets while Williams has matured into a legitimate starter and capable of handling much of the ballhandling duties that Ty Lawson would assume with Billups gone.


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## seifer0406

*Re: The Melo Situation...*

Leave the Hawks out of it. They're happy with Mike Bibby and getting Billups instead of Bibby isn't worth giving up Al Horford or Josh Smith.

I can see Denver consider Melo for Gallineri, Curry, pick(s). They don't need additional trades to unload Billups/Nene because all their contracts are short and they can get better value for them if they trade the 2 separately.


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## TwinkieFoot

*Re: The Melo Situation...*



Ballscientist said:


> one question only:
> 
> How many games will Nuggets win this season and the next 3 seasons?


Does it matter? You're not going to get an appropriate replacement for Melo in atrade, so the focus should be on acquiring prospects. With the lottery picks over those seasons, the Nuggets should become capable of competing for a playoff spot.


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## TwinkieFoot

*Re: The Melo Situation...*



seifer0406 said:


> Leave the Hawks out of it. They're happy with Mike Bibby and getting Billups instead of Bibby isn't worth giving up Al Horford or Josh Smith.
> 
> I can see Denver consider Melo for Gallineri, Curry, pick(s). They don't need additional trades to unload Billups/Nene because all their contracts are short and they can get better value for them if they trade the 2 separately.


Bibby couldn't hold Billups' jock-strap at this point. There is simply no comparison between the two of them. Billups would effectively add a bona-fide complimentary scorer next to Johnson that is currently absent on the Hawks- at least the way they operate their system (with Mike Woodson anyway). And the drop-off from Smith/Horford to Nene is not that dramatic. In fact, I consider all 3 to be apart of the same class of player and Nene is only 28 years old.


....I also don't think Gallo, Curry and picks is enough for Melo; not when the Nets are offering both Williams and Favors.


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## seifer0406

*Re: The Melo Situation...*



TwinkieFoot said:


> Bibby couldn't hold Billups' jock-strap at this point. There is simply no comparison between the two of them. Billups would effectively add a bona-fide complimentary scorer next to Johnson that is currently absent on the Hawks- at least the way they operate their system (with Mike Woodson anyway). And the drop-off from Smith/Horford to Nene is not that dramatic. In fact, I consider all 3 to be apart of the same class of player and Nene is only 28 years old.


Nobody is saying that Bibby is as good as Billups, but for the Hawks the upgrade of Billups over Bibby isn't enough to justify giving Josh Smith or Al Horford.

Joe Johnson also has the ball in his hands the majority of the time, which further reduces Billups effectiveness if you put the 2 together.

I'm not saying the Hawks gets worse with this trade but even if there is an improvement it is very marginal. You don't trade half of your starting lineup just for the sake of getting slightly better.


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## TwinkieFoot

*Re: The Melo Situation...*



seifer0406 said:


> Nobody is saying that Bibby is as good as Billups, but for the Hawks the upgrade of Billups over Bibby isn't enough to justify giving Josh Smith or Al Horford.
> 
> Joe Johnson also has the ball in his hands the majority of the time, which further reduces Billups effectiveness if you put the 2 together.
> 
> I'm not saying the Hawks gets worse with this trade but even if there is an improvement it is very marginal. You don't trade half of your starting lineup just for the sake of getting slightly better.


Chauncey Billups managed to score 20ppg next to Carmelo Anthony. I find it hard to imagine that an inferior player to Melo, like Joe Johnson, would impede his propensity to do so. I also believe you're severely underestimating Billups' ability to move without the ball, which is excellent. What is more remarkable is his ability to put the ball where it needs to be despite not dominating it like many of the elite PG's do. Defensively, he is elite IMO at the position. An effective defensive team is usually headed by an equally effective PG because ultimately that player is responsible for guarding the gatekeeper to the other team's offense. How that is a small thing in your book is beyond me. You're going to need that when D-Wade and company come to town.

I also don't quite understand your rationale related to the trade. Because the improvement is slight IYO, they shouldn't make it? We're not talking about a bottom-feeding team here. The Hawks were one of the primer teams last season and the past few seasons. Slight improvements for them are what ultimately make the difference between a series won or lost in the later stages of the playoffs, which is where they have been repeatedly eliminated.


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## E.H. Munro

*Re: The Melo Situation...*

The Hawks basically reshuffle their entire roster to get an upgrade on Mike Bibby while adding two injury-prone players in the bargain? What's their motivation again?


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## cpawfan

*Re: The Melo Situation...*



TwinkieFoot said:


> The Nets originally wanted Gallinari in the 2008 draft
> 
> and need his ability to stretch the defense for Harris and Lopez to operate.


False and False


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## cpawfan

*Re: The Melo Situation...*



seifer0406 said:


> I can see Denver consider Melo for Gallineri, Curry, pick(s).


Really???? You can see Denver considering a crap sandwich for Melo?


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## E.H. Munro

*Re: The Melo Situation...*



cpawfan said:


> Really???? You can see Denver considering a crap sandwich for Melo?


Well, it's a very tasty crap sandwich served with a rich diarrhea sauce.


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## 29380

*Re: The Melo Situation...*

Melo will be a Net he wants to live in New York and get his extension before the new CBA the only way to do that is a trade and the Nets can give Denver the best value.


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## E.H. Munro

*Re: The Melo Situation...*

I don't think they can trade Favors yet, and Devin Harris is the polar opposite of "the best value".


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## TwinkieFoot

*Re: The Melo Situation...*



cpawfan said:


> False and False


Really?



> *The Nets had targeted Westbrook, but are enthralled with Gallinari and will almost assuredly take him over Alexander, who also is a favorite of some in the front office.* They’re still intrigued with the possibility of Brook Lopez here, too. Nevertheless, the Nets own the 10th and 21st picks and are eager to make some deals here, especially if that includes moving Richard Jefferson.


http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-lotterypicks062508 


And the Nets were 2nd to last in 3 point shooting percentage last season at 31.8% edging out the worst team, the Detriot Pistons, by 0.4% (http://www.nba.com/statistics/sortable_team_statistics/sortable1.html#top). Seems like the Nets could use Gallo's shooting a whole lot especially considering the lack of improvement in this regard. Thanks for playing though.


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## Tragedy

*Re: The Melo Situation...*

i hate trades people propose where there's a team receiving 6 guys. i mean really now?


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## Tragedy

*Re: The Melo Situation...*

and why would the hawks give up horford or josh smith for randolph, nene and billups?


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## TwinkieFoot

*Re: The Melo Situation...*



E.H. Munro said:


> The Hawks basically reshuffle their entire roster to get an upgrade on Mike Bibby while adding two injury-prone players in the bargain? What's their motivation again?


Marvin Williams attempted only 8 shots per game last season. Mo Evans, alone could fill that void and is an equally talented defender. Randolph is icing on the cake and likely a much better fit for the role, regardless of his injury history. 

Nene Halario also played 82 games last season and 77 prior to that. It appears as though the injury bug is past him. When compared to Josh Smith statistically, his numbers fair quite favorably. The benefit in having Nene as opposed to Smith is the height difference, which favors Nene and would be critical in defending the Kendrick Perkins, Dwight Howards and Shaq's of the world; you know, the guys who are playing on the teams that kicked them out of the playoffs the past 2 seasons.


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## TwinkieFoot

*Re: The Melo Situation...*



Tragedy said:


> i hate trades people propose where there's a team receiving 6 guys. i mean really now?


Oh, you mean kinda like the trade that brought Kevin Garnett to Boston for Theo Ratliff, Al Jefferson, Ryan Gomes, Gerald Green, Sebastian Telfair and multiple first round picks? Kinda like that one?


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## TwinkieFoot

*Re: The Melo Situation...*



Tragedy said:


> and why would the hawks give up horford or josh smith for randolph, nene and billups?


Probably-and this might sound crazy- because they want to win by getting better players for their system. Stab in the dark there though.


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## Vuchato

*Re: The Melo Situation...*



TwinkieFoot said:


> Really?
> 
> 
> 
> http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-lotterypicks062508
> 
> 
> And the Nets were 2nd to last in 3 point shooting percentage last season at 31.8% edging out the worst team, the Detriot Pistons, by 0.4% (http://www.nba.com/statistics/sortable_team_statistics/sortable1.html#top). Seems like the Nets could use Gallo's shooting a whole lot especially considering the lack of improvement in this regard. Thanks for playing though.


The Nets did seem interested in Gallo, but I think they preferred Brook and didn't expect him to fall.

And as far as the trade you proposed, that would make the Nets starting lineup Harris/Morrow/Gallo/Murphy/Lopez. Or in other words, the most repetitive 2/3/4 ever. Would open up some space, but it definitely will be better than last year anyways, with Outlaw, Farmar, Morrow, and Murphy all added to the team. (Farmar had the worst percentage of those 4 last year at .376)


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## TwinkieFoot

*Re: The Melo Situation...*



Vuchato said:


> The Nets did seem interested in Gallo, but I think they preferred Brook and didn't expect him to fall.
> 
> And as far as the trade you proposed, that would make the Nets starting lineup Harris/Morrow/Gallo/Murphy/Lopez. Or in other words, the most repetitive 2/3/4 ever. Would open up some space, but it definitely will be better than last year anyways, with Outlaw, Farmar, Morrow, and Murphy all added to the team. (Farmar had the worst percentage of those 4 last year at .376)


Fair points. I can respect that but if I had Gallo, I'd use Outlaw as my 2-guard as opposed to Morrow. Outlaw obviously is the best perimeter defender on the team and he'd offer a little more balance to that starting unit. As much as he's almost exclusively played at the 3, his length, athleticism and ability to move off the ball make him an ideal fit at the 2.


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## cpawfan

*Re: The Melo Situation...*



TwinkieFoot said:


> Really?
> 
> http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-lotterypicks062508


Congratulations for quoting a draft smoke screen. I never said you couldn't find items linking the Nets to him. I said that the Nets actually being interested in him was false.



> And the Nets were 2nd to last in 3 point shooting percentage last season at 31.8% edging out the worst team, the Detriot Pistons, by 0.4% (http://www.nba.com/statistics/sortable_team_statistics/sortable1.html#top). Seems like the Nets could use Gallo's shooting a whole lot especially considering the lack of improvement in this regard. Thanks for playing though.


Thanks for playing, that is funny. It isn't like I'm a Nets fan and actually know who they've acquired since last season, nor how dreadful the team was last season. 

However, what is really funny is that you say the Nets lack improvement in their three point shooting. That is a clear demonstration that you aren't paying attention. Gallo shot 38.1% from 3 last season and the Nets signed and traded for Anthony Morrow who shot 45.6% from 3 last season. The Nets also traded for Troy Murphy who shot 38.4% last season and is a career 39.4% from three. Jordan Farmar was signed as a free agent and he shot 37.6% from three last season. Travis Outlaw was also signed as a free agent and he shot 38.7% with Portland and 37.8% with the Clippers from three.

So again it is false that the Nets need his ability to stretch the defense.


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## cpawfan

*Re: The Melo Situation...*



TwinkieFoot said:


> Fair points. I can respect that but if I had Gallo, I'd use Outlaw as my 2-guard as opposed to Morrow. Outlaw obviously is the best perimeter defender on the team and he'd offer a little more balance to that starting unit. As much as he's almost exclusively played at the 3, his length, athleticism and ability to move off the ball make him an ideal fit at the 2.


Outlaw can't play the 2 and he is far from the best perimeter player on the team. 

Additionally, Outlaw has played significant minutes at the 4.


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## cpawfan

*Re: The Melo Situation...*



Vuchato said:


> The Nets did seem interested in Gallo, but I think they preferred Brook and didn't expect him to fall.


The Nets did put up a nice smoke screen and yes, they didn't expect Brook to be there at #10.


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## TwinkieFoot

*Re: The Melo Situation...*



cpawfan said:


> Congratulations for quoting a draft smoke screen. I never said you couldn't find items linking the Nets to him. I said that the Nets actually being interested in him was false.


Actually, all you said was "false." There wasn't much articulation other than that. And isn't it a little convenient to dismiss the evidence I provided as a "smoke screen," when you have NO evidence in your favor supporting the contrary? 





cpawfan said:


> Thanks for playing, that is funny. It isn't like I'm a Nets fan and actually know who they've acquired since last season, nor how dreadful the team was last season.
> 
> However, what is really funny is that you say the Nets lack improvement in their three point shooting. That is a clear demonstration that you aren't paying attention. Gallo shot 38.1% from 3 last season and the Nets signed and traded for Anthony Morrow who shot 45.6% from 3 last season. The Nets also traded for Troy Murphy who shot 38.4% last season and is a career 39.4% from three. Jordan Farmar was signed as a free agent and he shot 37.6% from three last season. Travis Outlaw was also signed as a free agent and he shot 38.7% with Portland and 37.8% with the Clippers from three.
> 
> So again it is false that the Nets need his ability to stretch the defense.


Its cool your a Nets fan. Fortunately I have the propensity to follow more than 1 NBA franchise over the course of a(off)season. And as much as the Nets brought in key 3-point shooters, that doesn't necessarily mean they'll make much of a difference in that regard. 

As much as Anthony Morrow is a phenonmenal 3-point shooter, do you expect he'll be getting any time over Terrence Williams? 

As much as Jordan Farmer is a solid player, do you expect he'll be getting any time over Devin Harris? Beyond that, I'd hardly consider Farmer a marksmen. He got only 6 shots a game and was known to be wildly inconsistent as a Laker. What happens when he doesn't have two of the primer players in the league drawing attention away from him?

You do have legit arguments for both Troy Murphy and Travis Outlaw but remember, they were getting their looks off of penetrations from some of the league's better scorers (Danny Granger, Brandon Roy, LaMarcus Aldridge, Baron Davis, etc.). You think Brook Lopez and Devin Harris can give them those type of quality looks?


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## TwinkieFoot

*Re: The Melo Situation...*



cpawfan said:


> The Nets did put up a nice smoke screen and yes, they didn't expect Brook to be there at #10.


Evidence?


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## TwinkieFoot

*Re: The Melo Situation...*



cpawfan said:


> Outlaw can't play the 2 and he is far from the best perimeter player on the team.
> 
> Additionally, Outlaw has played significant minutes at the 4.


So is this the part where you try disagreeing with everything I say to try and make a point? Thats cool.

I never said anything about Outlaw not being able to play the 4, so I'm not entirely sure why this is even apart of the conversation (Probably has a little something to do with my opening statement). I do recall saying that he is almost exclusively played at the 3. With the Clippers ALL his minutes came at the 3. With the Blazers, he played most of his minutes at the 4 out of necessity. The team was often injury-ridden and without a proper backup 4. Once Martell Webster was drafted as a top 6 lottery pick, I think Outlaw was cemented into the role of a backup 4 for them.

Explain to me again, why Outlaw can't play the 2 guard position as opposed to just making pointless comments.


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## seifer0406

*Re: The Melo Situation...*



TwinkieFoot said:


> Chauncey Billups managed to score 20ppg next to Carmelo Anthony. I find it hard to imagine that an inferior player to Melo, like Joe Johnson, would impede his propensity to do so. I also believe you're severely underestimating Billups' ability to move without the ball, which is excellent. What is more remarkable is his ability to put the ball where it needs to be despite not dominating it like many of the elite PG's do. Defensively, he is elite IMO at the position. An effective defensive team is usually headed by an equally effective PG because ultimately that player is responsible for guarding the gatekeeper to the other team's offense. How that is a small thing in your book is beyond me. You're going to need that when D-Wade and company come to town.


Melo and Joe Johnson are entirely different players. Joe Johnson is more of a play maker whereas Melo is a more of a pure scorer. Playing next to Joe Johnson does not allow Billups to utilize his play-making abilities. What will likely happen is Billups will become more of a shooter that plays off Johnson. As a shooter, Bibby and Billups aren't all that different.



> I also don't quite understand your rationale related to the trade. Because the improvement is slight IYO, they shouldn't make it? We're not talking about a bottom-feeding team here. The Hawks were one of the primer teams last season and the past few seasons. Slight improvements for them are what ultimately make the difference between a series won or lost in the later stages of the playoffs, which is where they have been repeatedly eliminated.


Because you run the risk of hurting team chemistry and mess around with what's working. Unless theres a very good reason teams don't trade away 3 of their starters unless they're getting significantly better. I just don't see the benefit in this trade. Billups is an aging player and Nene isn't the most durable. You're giving away Josh Smith or Al Horford who are entering their prime and can very well be allstars for the next few years.


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## cpawfan

*Re: The Melo Situation...*



TwinkieFoot said:


> Actually, all you said was "false." There wasn't much articulation other than that. And isn't it a little convenient to dismiss the evidence I provided as a "smoke screen," when you have NO evidence in your favor supporting the contrary?


I said all that needed to be said. I have better than links, I have actual information.



> Its cool your a Nets fan. Fortunately I have the propensity to follow more than 1 NBA franchise over the course of a(off)season.


You haven't demonstrated any credibility in that regard.



> And as much as the Nets brought in key 3-point shooters, that doesn't necessarily mean they'll make much of a difference in that regard.
> 
> As much as Anthony Morrow is a phenonmenal 3-point shooter, do you expect he'll be getting any time over Terrence Williams?


1) The starting SG position is undecided

2) Both players will be key components in the 8 man rotation and therefore will both see plenty of minutes.



> As much as Jordan Farmer is a solid player, do you expect he'll be getting any time over Devin Harris?


Again we have the rotation issue. Additionally, Avery has talked about pairing Farmar at times with Harris.

Of course, we can't overlook that Harris is injury prone and Farmar will see extended time in his absence.



> Beyond that, I'd hardly consider Farmer a marksmen. He got only 6 shots a game and was known to be wildly inconsistent as a Laker. What happens when he doesn't have two of the primer players in the league drawing attention away from him?


What is a primer player? Is that anything like wall paint?

Farmar is a better shooter than Devin Harris and when he is in the game, his three point shot has to be defended. That creates floor spacing.



> You do have legit arguments for both Troy Murphy and Travis Outlaw but remember, they were getting their looks off of penetrations from some of the league's better scorers (Danny Granger, Brandon Roy, LaMarcus Aldridge, Baron Davis, etc.). You think Brook Lopez and Devin Harris can give them those type of quality looks?


Troy Murphy has been shooting the ball well from three for the last 6 years. That isn't a matter of looks or opportunities. That is like asking if I think he can average 10 RPG if he plays over 30 MPG (go ahead, go look up his career numbers, I'll wait). 

Travis Outlaw came into the league out of High School and has slowly developed his game. His three point shot came from a lot of hard work. It is not the product of penetration from other players.

In short, your question does not reflect the reality of their play.


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## cpawfan

*Re: The Melo Situation...*



TwinkieFoot said:


> Explain to me again, why Outlaw can't play the 2 guard position as opposed to just making pointless comments.


Well for starters it should be obvious if you've watched him play.

Outlaw doesn't have the ball handling skills of a two guard nor the quickness to defend most twos and combo guards. His passing skills are below average for a small forward and down right ugly for a shooting guard.

He is a 3/4 combo guy. He is at his best on offense playing the 4 because he has enough of a handle to create his own step back jumper.


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## TwinkieFoot

*Re: The Melo Situation...*



seifer0406 said:


> Melo and Joe Johnson are entirely different players. Joe Johnson is more of a play maker whereas Melo is a more of a pure scorer. Playing next to Joe Johnson does not allow Billups to utilize his play-making abilities. What will likely happen is Billups will become more of a shooter that plays off Johnson. As a shooter, Bibby and Billups aren't all that different.
> 
> 
> 
> Because you run the risk of hurting team chemistry and mess around with what's working. Unless theres a very good reason teams don't trade away 3 of their starters unless they're getting significantly better. I just don't see the benefit in this trade. Billups is an aging player and Nene isn't the most durable. You're giving away Josh Smith or Al Horford who are entering their prime and can very well be allstars for the next few years.


Joe Johnson is a playmaker out of necessity. He wasn't a ball-dominant player until he went to the Hawks, who never had a capable PG with him there. 

I think calling Josh Smith an allstar is a bit of a stretch. He's an impressive player but with players like Chris Bosh, Amar'e Stoudamire and Carlos Boozer in the conference, I find it hard to imagine him an all-star. And as I mentioned in an earlier post, his numbers are compareable to Nene; Nene, who is a legitimate center in this league, which is necessary if they expect to beat the Celtics and Magic (both of whom they lost too in the playoffs). As much as Nene had struggles with injuries earlier in his career, he never missed a game all last season and played in 77 games the season before. He's not much older than Smith, so I honestly can't see why you wouldn't roll the dice. I guess we're just going to have to agree to disagree.


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## Dre

*Re: The Melo Situation...*

Carmelo probably won't be traded until next offseason unless the Nuggets slump or someone major gets hurt, not necessarily major ifs though. 

By that time who knows who else will be in the race. At the end of the day it's probably New York or New Jersey though, because that's apparently where he wants to go. One suprise season from a younger team though and he might have a new preference.


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## TwinkieFoot

*Re: The Melo Situation...*



cpawfan said:


> Well for starters it should be obvious if you've watched him play.
> 
> Outlaw doesn't have the ball handling skills of a two guard nor the quickness to defend most twos and combo guards. His passing skills are below average for a small forward and down right ugly for a shooting guard.
> 
> He is a 3/4 combo guy. He is at his best on offense playing the 4 because he has enough of a handle to create his own step back jumper.


I've actually seen him play, which is exactly why I think he'd be a fit at the 2 spot. None of the skills you mentioned are essential to be a prototypical shooting guard. Shooting the ball is really the only prerequiste for the position and as you mentioned, he does that pretty well. Richard Hamilton during the Larry Brown era, Reggie Miller and today's Ray Allen hardly handled the ball for their respect teams and were regarded as primer players at their position. I'm not saying Outlaw is the shooter they are but he's a good enough shooter where he can fill that niche as a role player.

I think what is most pertinent to this conversation is his defensive ability. Your position is usually determined by what positions you can effectively cover. His Outlaw's athletic ability, speed and most importantly length, he can cover 2 guards. You can't tell me otherwise especially with horrendous athletes like Kyle Korver, Mike Miller and Jalen Rose having "covered" 2-guards.


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## seifer0406

*Re: The Melo Situation...*



> I think calling Josh Smith an allstar is a bit of a stretch. He's an impressive player but with players like Chris Bosh, Amar'e Stoudamire and Carlos Boozer in the conference, I find it hard to imagine him an all-star. And as I mentioned in an earlier post, his numbers are compareable to Nene; Nene, who is a legitimate center in this league, which is necessary if they expect to beat the Celtics and Magic (both of whom they lost too in the playoffs). As much as Nene had struggles with injuries earlier in his career, he never missed a game all last season and played in 77 games the season before. He's not much older than Smith, so I honestly can't see why you wouldn't roll the dice. I guess we're just going to have to agree to disagree.


Nene is 28 compare to Smith (25 in Dec) and Horford (24). Both Smith and Horford are entering their prime whereas Nene isn't going to get much better than what he is now. Although Nene has been healthy the past 2 years the earlier knee injuries will be a concern now that he approaches 30.

All that is beside the point. The Hawks are not getting significantly better with this trade. The reward does not warrant the risk and that's why they shouldn't make the trade.


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## Sir Patchwork

*Re: The Melo Situation...*

These big trades are so hard to orchestrate in real life. It'll probably be something much smaller. I think Carmelo to New Jersey would make for interesting dynamic. I also believe Portland would be the best fit, but I guess Carmelo wants to go east closer to home.


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## TwinkieFoot

*Re: The Melo Situation...*



cpawfan said:


> I said all that needed to be said. I have better than links, I have actual information.


So when did opinions become fact? When you need them to make a point? If you got no articles supporting you point, I suggest you drop it and just admit you were wrong.





cpawfan said:


> You haven't demonstrated any credibility in that regard.


Right, I should defer to the guy that doesn't know the difference between an opinion and fact.





cpawfan said:


> 1) The starting SG position is undecided
> 
> 2) Both players will be key components in the 8 man rotation and therefore will both see plenty of minutes.


Fair but unless Anthony Morrow adds about 30 more lbs, he'll be exclusively playing the 2 position. I can see a Farmer, Harris combination but that's about where it all ends.

Again we have the rotation issue. Additionally, Avery has talked about pairing Farmar at times with Harris..[/QUOTE]

Good job pointing that out.




cpawfan said:


> Of course, we can't overlook that Harris is injury prone and Farmar will see extended time in his absence.


So waiting until the 2nd best player on your team gets injuried so that a guy that couldn't take time away from a 35 year old Derek Fisher, is what your looking forward to? Sounds like a promising season.






cpawfan said:


> What is a primer player? Is that anything like wall paint?
> 
> Farmar is a better shooter than Devin Harris and when he is in the game, his three point shot has to be defended. That creates floor spacing.


Good job for finding a typo. I'll see if I can find a cookie somewhere for you. Farmar is a better shooter than Harris but that doesn't say much when all Farmar has been working with is 6 shots a game on a team featuring two all-stars. As fast as Farmar is, I got serious concern about whether he can get that shot off with a player zeroing in on him. That ultimately might be a good thing though because he's fast enough to get around a guy that plays him tight. I just don't know if he's a good enough shooter to bother playing him tight enough for this to consistently happen. 




cpawfan said:


> Troy Murphy has been shooting the ball well from three for the last 6 years. That isn't a matter of looks or opportunities. That is like asking if I think he can average 10 RPG if he plays over 30 MPG (go ahead, go look up his career numbers, I'll wait).
> 
> Travis Outlaw came into the league out of High School and has slowly developed his game. His three point shot came from a lot of hard work. It is not the product of penetration from other players.
> 
> In short, your question does not reflect the reality of their play.


I'll admit I was wrong for pairing Murphy up with Outlaw because at 6-11, its very difficult to contest his shot. At the same time, I find he's lost a good bit of his speed since his days with Golden State Warriors. Back then, if you played him tight he'd be able to get around you by putting the ball on the floor. He's lost some athleticism since then and with 4's as athletic as they've ever been, I don't see what's stopping them from getting up on the shot. They got nothing to fear about him putting the ball on the floor since they are athletic enough to counter it. And your not impressing anyone pointing out Murphy's rpg since I'm well aware of his career.

As for Travis Outlaw, your contradicting yourself. First the guy has no perimeter skills to create his own shot. Now his 3 is "not the product of penetration from other players?" So is he creating shots for himself? And if he is, wouldn't that require actual skill?


----------



## cpawfan

*Re: The Melo Situation...*



TwinkieFoot said:


> I've actually seen him play, which is exactly why I think he'd be a fit at the 2 spot. None of the skills you mentioned are essential to be a prototypical shooting guard. Shooting the ball is really the only prerequiste for the position and as you mentioned, he does that pretty well. Richard Hamilton during the Larry Brown era, Reggie Miller and today's Ray Allen hardly handled the ball for their respect teams and were regarded as primer players at their position. I'm not saying Outlaw is the shooter they are but he's a good enough shooter where he can fill that niche as a role player.
> 
> I think what is most pertinent to this conversation is his defensive ability. Your position is usually determined by what positions you can effectively cover. His Outlaw's athletic ability, speed and most importantly length, he can cover 2 guards. You can't tell me otherwise especially with horrendous athletes like Kyle Korver, Mike Miller and Jalen Rose having "covered" 2-guards.


Rip Hamilton has averaged over 4 APG in his Pistons career and for the majority of his Pistons career he averaged less than 2 three point attempts per game. He was hardly just a shooter under Larry Brown.

Reggie Miller was one of the All Time greats, hardly a fair comparison for Travis Outlaw. Ray Allen could still start for multiple teams in the league and fill a larger role than what he does on the Celtics. Just because he isn't doing as much as he did in the past, that doesn't mean you can compare Outlaw to him.

Defense is much more than athleticism and speed. Outlaw struggles to defend small forwards and would get destroyed by shooting guards. 

There is zero point to listing players that were/are poor defenders who played shooting guard. You could do that for all five positions. That is the same as attempting to say Jason Kidd rebounds better than the average small forward, so I think he should play that position.


----------



## Ron

*Re: The Melo Situation...*



E.H. Munro said:


> Well, it's a very tasty crap sandwich served with a rich diarrhea sauce.


Some analogies are best left unsaid (in this case, unwritten). :|


----------



## Dre

*Re: The Melo Situation...*

:hano:

And you make it better by quoting it?...dinner postponed another hour SMH


----------



## cpawfan

*Re: The Melo Situation...*



TwinkieFoot said:


> So when did opinions become fact? When you need them to make a point? If you got no articles supporting you point, I suggest you drop it and just admit you were wrong.


I'm not stating an opinion and I am stating a fact. Here is the thing about insider information, it doesn't have a link.



> Fair but unless Anthony Morrow adds about 30 more lbs, he'll be exclusively playing the 2 position.


Yes, because NBA teams never play small lineups. Besides, even if he only plays his minutes at shooting guard, Williams is fully capable of playing SF.




> So waiting until the 2nd best player on your team gets injuried so that a guy that couldn't take time away from a 35 year old Derek Fisher, is what your looking forward to? Sounds like a promising season.


Not even close to what I said. 




> Good job for finding a typo. I'll see if I can find a cookie somewhere for you. Farmar is a better shooter than Harris but that doesn't say much when all Farmar has been working with is 6 shots a game on a team featuring two all-stars. As fast as Farmar is, I got serious concern about whether he can get that shot off with a player zeroing in on him. That ultimately might be a good thing though because he's fast enough to get around a guy that plays him tight. I just don't know if he's a good enough shooter to bother playing him tight enough for this to consistently happen.


The entire point is about the Nets "need" for Gallo to stretch the floor. You're quibbling over how much floor spacing the 4th shooter the Nets added this summer is going to give especially considering that some of his minutes will be replacing a worse shooter in Devin Harris.





> I'll admit I was wrong for pairing Murphy up with Outlaw because at 6-11, its very difficult to contest his shot. At the same time, I find he's lost a good bit of his speed since his days with Golden State Warriors. Back then, if you played him tight he'd be able to get around you by putting the ball on the floor. He's lost some athleticism since then and with 4's as athletic as they've ever been, I don't see what's stopping them from getting up on the shot. They got nothing to fear about him putting the ball on the floor since they are athletic enough to counter it. And your not impressing anyone pointing out Murphy's rpg since I'm well aware of his career.


So if a PF is guarding him at the 3 point line, is that not creating floor spacing?



> As for Travis Outlaw, your contradicting yourself. First the guy has no perimeter skills to create his own shot. Now his 3 is "not the product of penetration from other players?" So is he creating shots for himself? And if he is, wouldn't that require actual skill?


I'm not contradicting myself at all. I never said he couldn't create his own shot. 

Outlaw has enough skill to create his own shot and that's it. He can't create for others, his passing skills aren't good, and he can't handle the ball against pressure.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: The Melo Situation...*



Ron said:


> E.H. Munro said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cpawfan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Really???? You can see Denver considering a crap sandwich for Melo?
> 
> 
> 
> Well, it's a very tasty crap sandwich served with a rich diarrhea sauce.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Some analogies are best left unsaid (in this case, unwritten). :|
Click to expand...

What? That's the $5.99 brown plate special at the world (in)famous...


----------



## NOFX22

*Nets frontrunner for Melo! offering Favors, Murphy, Humpries, and two 1st round picks*

Espn.com


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Nets frontrunner for Melo! offering Favors, Murphy, Humpries, and two 1st round p*

according to nba rules, 

can they trade newly acquired Favors and Murphy?


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: The Melo Situation...*

Chance analysis: Top 3

Nets - Lopez/2 first rounders for Melo

Clippers - Blake Griffin/2 first rounders for Melo

Rockets - 6.3M Trade Exception, Martin/Brook/Hill/2 Knicks picks for Melo and JR Smith (separate deal?)


----------



## 27dresses

*Re: Nets frontrunner for Melo! offering Favors, Murphy, Humpries, and two 1st round p*



Ballscientist said:


> according to nba rules,
> 
> can they trade newly acquired Favors and Murphy?


I believe that they can


----------



## NOFX22

*Re: Nets frontrunner for Melo! offering Favors, Murphy, Humpries, and two 1st round p*



Ballscientist said:


> according to nba rules,
> 
> can they trade newly acquired Favors and Murphy?


Remember the qrich trade last year lol


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Nets frontrunner for Melo! offering Favors, Murphy, Humpries, and two 1st round p*

Interesting!

Can Pistons trade T-Mac to Knicks for another 3 first round picks?


----------



## futuristxen

*Re: Nets frontrunner for Melo! offering Favors, Murphy, Humpries, and two 1st round p*

If this went down would the Nets still have cap to add another superstar? Or would this be pretty much it?


----------



## c_dog

*Re: Nets frontrunner for Melo! offering Favors, Murphy, Humpries, and two 1st round p*

i think this is a good deal for the nuggets. superstars often go for nothing these days and they actually get some talent(favors, and serviceable guys in murphy and humphries) and picks.


----------



## futuristxen

*Re: Nets frontrunner for Melo! offering Favors, Murphy, Humpries, and two 1st round p*

It actually sort of reminds you of the Grant Hill to the Magic trade, where the Pistons got the skeleton of a championship team back.


----------



## SheriffKilla

*Re: Nets frontrunner for Melo! offering Favors, Murphy, Humpries, and two 1st round p*

I like this for both teams. Melo obviously wants to leave, and the Nuggets get some real young talent for him. Now they gotta somehow turn Billups for some youngns. Love the Lawson/Favors duo in a few years.


----------



## futuristxen

*Re: Nets frontrunner for Melo! offering Favors, Murphy, Humpries, and two 1st round p*

Of course is Melo going to sign an extension with the Nets given the roster that's in place? Is that enough for him? Or is he just going to go to the Knicks anyways to play with another Superstar? That would be the one big impediment to the Nets deal I would think. Unless the Nets are prepared to trade for him without hte guarantee of his services next year, which might be possible. But I wouldn't be including draft picks if I were them if I didn't have that guarantee of Melo. That could wreck their team for a long time.


----------



## S.jR.

*Re: Nets frontrunner for Melo! offering Favors, Murphy, Humpries, and two 1st round p*

Not sure why Melo would agree to this, isn't the point of leaving is to try and win? I wouldn't say he's trading up to a better situation, younger and more potential sure but not exactly a winner. Oh well I have to remember my logic isn't the same as most NBA players logic.


----------



## Spaceman Spiff

*Re: Nets frontrunner for Melo! offering Favors, Murphy, Humpries, and two 1st round p*

I thought it was gonna be Terrence Williams for Melo/Nene/1st round pick


----------



## jericho

*Re: Nets frontrunner for Melo! offering Favors, Murphy, Humpries, and two 1st round p*

As a Nuggets fan I like this deal well enough. Gives them frontcourt depth and an intriguing talent to develop in Favors. If this goes down, they may as well go for broke and try to move Billups (to Atlanta? Orlando?) in a deal for a young SF or SG. I'm nervous about handing the keys to Lawson this early, but without Anthony around there's no point in holding on to Chauncey.


----------



## HB

*Re: Nets frontrunner for Melo! offering Favors, Murphy, Humpries, and two 1st round p*

Giving up WAY too much for this guy...way too much


----------



## Gx

*Re: Nets frontrunner for Melo! offering Favors, Murphy, Humpries, and two 1st round p*



HB said:


> Giving up WAY too much for this guy...way too much


Beat me to it, but yea... this is way too much for melo imo.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Nets frontrunner for Melo! offering Favors, Murphy, Humpries, and two 1st round p*



Spaceman Spiff said:


> I thought it was gonna be Terrence Williams for Melo/Nene/1st round pick


When you're trading a talent like Terrence Williams you need to get LeBron back at a bare minimum.


----------



## HB

*Re: Nets frontrunner for Melo! offering Favors, Murphy, Humpries, and two 1st round p*

Actually the fact he wasnt included in the deal should tell you how much NJ values him.


----------



## O2K

*Re: Nets frontrunner for Melo! offering Favors, Murphy, Humpries, and two 1st round p*

melo is not getting traded. atleast not until the trade deadline.


----------



## Dre

*Re: The Melo Situation...*

All the Nets are giving up is Favors and two picks that better be in the high teens, they're not even giving up the legendary Terrence Williams, and people are still crying foul? 

Didn't you guys almost have the worst record of all time last year...I wouldn't put one person on that roster on a pedestal :2worf:


----------



## cpawfan

*Re: Nets frontrunner for Melo! offering Favors, Murphy, Humpries, and two 1st round p*



HB said:


> Actually the fact he wasnt included in the deal should tell you how much NJ values him.


No, just no. I'm a TWill fan, but this is ridiculous.


----------



## HKF

*Re: The Melo Situation...*

You guys and these gif files. Be killing me.


----------



## TwinkieFoot

*Re: The Melo Situation... (merged)*

I'm pretty sure rookies can't be dealt until December 15th, the same day that free agents signed in the offseason can be dealt. This would essentially mean that Derrick Favors could not be included in a trade and would effectively remove the Nets from the running in the short term. I personally believe that of all the teams in this sweepstakes, the Rockets have the best offer on the table. Kevin Martin, Jordan Hill and some combination of first round draft picks allow the Nuggets to remain competitive and simultaneously retool the franchise.

P.S., is it just me or is Derrick Favors' potential extraordinarily overrated?


----------



## TwinkieFoot

*Re: The Melo Situation...*



cpawfan said:


> Rip Hamilton has averaged over 4 APG in his Pistons career and for the majority of his Pistons career he averaged less than 2 three point attempts per game. He was hardly just a shooter under Larry Brown.


And Richard Hamilton also played anywhere between 35-40mpg under Larry Brown. That figure could easily be attributable to his floor time and the fact that you're bound to make an inevitable pass that leads to a bucket. 

I also never recalled mentioning Richard Hamilton as a 3 point shooter (because I didn't). I do remember saying that he was a shooter capable of moving without the ball. 




cpawfan said:


> Reggie Miller was one of the All Time greats, hardly a fair comparison for Travis Outlaw. Ray Allen could still start for multiple teams in the league and fill a larger role than what he does on the Celtics. Just because he isn't doing as much as he did in the past, that doesn't mean you can compare Outlaw to him.


Once again, I never said Outlaw's play was equivalent to Reggie Miller's. In fact, I recall distinctly making that distinction but I suppose you glossed over the point once again. At the same time, it is fair to say the two can fulfill a similar role. 

For instance, their are many similarities between the offensive games of Reggie Miller and Richard Hamilton. Miller is a HOFer, which is something Richard Hamilton is not coming close to sniffing. Same thing can be said about the offensive games of Shaquille O'neal and Eddy Curry. Both are similar players offensively, except Shaq just did what what Curry did but on a HOF type level.



cpawfan said:


> Defense is much more than athleticism and speed. Outlaw struggles to defend small forwards and would get destroyed by shooting guards.
> 
> There is zero point to listing players that were/are poor defenders who played shooting guard. You could do that for all five positions. That is the same as attempting to say Jason Kidd rebounds better than the average small forward, so I think he should play that position.


Outlaw is known as a two-way player. How exactly has he become a bad defender? And no, your analogy of Jason Kidd makes absolutely no sense. I’m merely saying he is capable of playing the 2 at a level equitable to a starter in the league; not that his ideal position is the 2.


----------



## Spaceman Spiff

*Re: Nets frontrunner for Melo! offering Favors, Murphy, Humpries, and two 1st round p*



E.H. Munro said:


> When you're trading a talent like Terrence Williams you need to get LeBron back at a bare minimum.


If I'm Pat Riley I pull the trigger quick Terrence Williams for Wade/Lebron/Bosh


----------



## Spaceman Spiff

*Re: The Melo Situation...*



Dre™ said:


> All the Nets are giving up is Favors and two picks that better be in the high teens, they're not even giving up the legendary Terrence Williams, and people are still crying foul?
> 
> Didn't you guys almost have the worst record of all time last year...I wouldn't put one person on that roster on a pedestal :2worf:


Please get it right.... they're bringing in Melo to be the sidekick of Williams. This is clearly Williams team, and he has requested help. Otherwise he will demand a trade to the Heat and Riley is willing to give up Wade, Lebron, Bosh, and go back in time to 1996 and bring back Jordan and Mourning.


----------



## TwinkieFoot

*Re: The Melo Situation...*



cpawfan said:


> I'm not stating an opinion and I am stating a fact. Here is the thing about insider information, it doesn't have a link.


Oh, ok. And Barack Obama and I are going to play a few rounds of golf at 3pm today; while discussing his economic plans for our country. 



cpawfan said:


> Yes, because NBA teams never play small lineups. Besides, even if he only plays his minutes at shooting guard, Williams is fully capable of playing SF.


NBA teams also play big lineups and yet Travis Outlaw can't play the 2? Kinda hypocritical don't you think?





cpawfan said:


> The entire point is about the Nets "need" for Gallo to stretch the floor. You're quibbling over how much floor spacing the 4th shooter the Nets added this summer is going to give especially considering that some of his minutes will be replacing a worse shooter in Devin Harris.


LOL, that is like saying "since Eddie House is a better shooter than Rajon Rondo, we got nothing to worry about with Eddie on the floor." What's humorous about all of this is that neither Harris or Farmar were better than Rondo and House during that championship run and your expecting your guys to lead some Nets resurgence.





cpawfan said:


> So if a PF is guarding him at the 3 point line, is that not creating floor spacing?


Sure but that doesn't mean that that spacing will lead to shots. This all reminds me of the 2002 Knicks who had a team of above average shooters and had a tough time scoring the basketball. Why? Because even though your a good shooter, you still need space to get it off. And if you can't create your shot or have someone else command a double team to get you a look, you're useless. Case and point, Jarvis Hayes who was on your team last year. Despite being known as a marksmen, he shot just 33% from beyond the arch; 2% less than league average. The year before that with Vince Carter on the team, he hit 39% of his 3's. The year before that with the Pistons, he shot 38%. Coincidence? Not likely.



cpawfan said:


> *I'm not contradicting myself at all. I never said he couldn't create his own shot.*
> 
> *Outlaw has enough skill to create his own shot and that's it. * He can't create for others, his passing skills aren't good, and he can't handle the ball against pressure.


Really? "Outlaw doesn't have the ball handling skills of a two guard nor the quickness to defend most twos and combo guards."-cpawfan, 9/20/10 @ 7:23PM

Now, what shot is he creating without ball handling skills? Because if he isn't good enough to handle the ball at the 2, whose to say he can handle it at the 3?


----------



## 27dresses

*Re: The Melo Situation... (merged)*



TwinkieFoot said:


> I'm pretty sure rookies can't be dealt until December 15th, the same day that free agents signed in the offseason can be dealt. This would essentially mean that Derrick Favors could not be included in a trade and would effectively remove the Nets from the running in the short term. I personally believe that of all the teams in this sweepstakes, the Rockets have the best offer on the table. Kevin Martin, Jordan Hill and some combination of first round draft picks allow the Nuggets to remain competitive and simultaneously retool the franchise.
> 
> P.S., is it just me or is Derrick Favors' potential extraordinarily overrated?


A team can trade a player they drafted 30 days after they sign him.

And we'll see what Favors can deliver as he plays. The kid just turned 19.


----------



## Tragedy

*Re: The Melo Situation... (merged)*

One thing that's funny, if you have the "second best" center in the NBA, who's a 20/10/3blk waiting to happen, wouldn't you not mind giving up Favors to form a more well rounded team?

It'a not like Carmelo Anthony is a borderline star/stat producer like Kevin Martin and the like. Carmelo is a legit star who has been the man on a team that's been to the playoffs consistently.

He's not Lebron/Kobe/Wade, but he's really not worse than Kevin Durant, and hell, if you take away 2006, you can knock Wade down a notch, as he hasn't really shown to really push a team, and is more injury prone!

Carmelo Anthony is getting really devalued.

If the nets fans really think Terrence Williams is going to be a very solid, if not very good starter, you'll have what


Devin Harris
Terrence Williams
Carmelo Anthony
Josh Boone/Joe Smith/Blah Blah
Brook Lopez


That's worse than

Devin Harris
Terrence Williams
Travis Outlaw
Derrick Favors
Brook Lopez


Really?

Seriously?

I mean, if Terrence Williams is as good as you guys claim, you could give up a player you hope to be a 20/10 player someday for a 29/6.6/3.5 player NOW.

Hell people talk crap about Melo's rebounding numbers, but two things stand out, he's a terrific offensive rebounder, and as a defensive rebounder the team has always had their bigs crash as Melo gets out for the break. So it's not really a lack of wanting to or not having the ability to rebound defensively, it was the style of the team for him to get out. And with that said he still only averaged two less rebounds than your 7 footer!

Fact is, you get Carmelo, and if Devin Harris stays healthy, Terrence Williams plays as good as you say he is, Brook Lopez proves he's a 18/9, 18/10 player even on a GOOD team, and the role players (Morrow, Outlaw, Farmar, Boone, Smith, Ross) play decently, the Nets could be in the playoffs this season.

Even if Favors pans out, you still get Melo!!!!

I mean what the hell! Is the consensus that Favors will be a tier 1 player among nets fans? Is he going to be a top 3 power forward and top 5 nba player?

Because Carmelo is a top 10 NBA player.


----------



## Tragedy

*Re: The Melo Situation... (merged)*

PS. 

Nets fans are complete idiots.

I'm seriously pissed the Knicks and their fans get such a bad rap. We have had bad ownership, bad front office, but we never hype up Knicks players like that. We always hype up NEW YORK CITY as a city to play in, but let's be real while we're at it, players would love to play in NYC, they just don't want to play for the crappy Knicks ownership/front office/coaching.

And this is why the Nets are attractive, they'll be in NEW YORK CITY in two seasons, and will be right next to one of the best neighborhoods in Brooklyn.


----------



## Hyperion

*Re: The Melo Situation... (merged)*

My list of Top 5 go: Lebron, Kobe, Melo, Wade, Durant. In that order. He's just been stuck on a team full of head cases.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: The Melo Situation... (merged)*

2 reasons that Knicks have absolutely no shot to land Melo the next 5 years

*1. Based on my source A, Melo will be traded to Warriors for Monte Ellis package if he refuses to sign extension;

2. Based on my source B, Both Melo and Nuggets GM have certain agreement that Nuggets will trade Melo based on Melo picks (5 teams).*


----------



## jericho

*Re: The Melo Situation... (merged)*

I... okay.


----------



## Tragedy

*Re: The Melo Situation... (merged)*



Hyperion said:


> My list of Top 5 go: Lebron, Kobe, Melo, Wade, Durant. In that order. He's just been stuck on a team full of head cases.


And that is not unreasonable AT ALL. 

Durant is getting a lot of shine, but remember he was shut down in the playoffs pretty much. 

Carmelo is a great great player.

Who remembers the Nuggets/Cavs game from earlier this season?

Carmelo Stat line 40 points 6 reb 7 assists 1 steal 2 blocks and the win
Lebron stat line 43 points 13 rebounds 15 assists 2 steals 4 blocks and the loss.

We all know Lebron is the best player in the league at best, second best at worst, so ignore his line. Point is Carmelo is right up there as one of the best in the league. If he wasn't shouldn't his performance be worse? Keep in mind the Cavs with Lebron were 4-10 vs. the Nuggets with Carmelo.

He's going to give the nets anywhere between 25-28 points night from all over the court. Close range, mid range, long range, post ups, fast breaks. He'll contribute between 5-7 rebounds a night, and if he crashed the board like Lebron did you could see maybe 8 or 9. He'll give you between 3-4 rebounds as well. 80-85% free throw shooting with around 7-9 free throws per night.

He's stepping his defense up, and with a coach like Avery Johnson he can only get better, or at least nets team defense will improve.

And he's only 26! He'll play the entire 2010 season as a 26 year old! He's only 7 months older than Lebron! His game is not centered on athleticism, so h can conceivably contribute at his current level for at least 6 more seasons before we START to see a drop off.

Derrick Favors may turn out to be a stud, but even if he turns out to be a star, if Melo continues to be what he's been without even improving Melo may still be the better player.

I seriously don't get it. I wish the Knicks had Favors so we could get Melo lol.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: The Melo Situation... (merged)*

A league source said that the Rockets are open to many possibilities, even trading Kevin Martin, who averaged 20.6 points per game last season (and previously had some bright seasons with Sacramento). While we are still early in the process, the idea of Denver getting a bona fide scorer for Melo — as opposed to some question marks — is understandably enticing (The New York Times also reported this earlier today). But as a source said yesterday, it’s quite possible that the Nuggets will have to make a three-team trade in order to make everything work.


----------



## Vuchato

*Re: The Melo Situation...*



Dre™ said:


> All the Nets are giving up is Favors and two picks that better be in the high teens, they're not even giving up the legendary Terrence Williams, and people are still crying foul?
> 
> Didn't you guys almost have the worst record of all time last year...I wouldn't put one person on that roster on a pedestal :2worf:


...what? Neither Favors nor the two picks were on that team last year, obviously. Favors has the potential to be better than Melo, and a good chance to get at least close to Melo. I'd probably do the Favors/Murphy/Humphries/picks for Melo deal, but I'm not sure the fit is great, because that means that we have one good big man (and no one else you could even consider to be a starter), unless you count Melo/Outlaw/James as a PF, but that would make the team pretty bad at rebounding. Aside from that, the teams 3 best perimeter players would all be pretty unreliable shooters (though the bench would be great at it). IF this does go down I'd hope there would be something to follow it, preferably moving James for a PF, getting Anderson back would be nice.


----------



## Tragedy

*Re: The Melo Situation... (merged)*

Man you guys are nuts.

The 2003 draft will go down as the best draft next to 1984, and Favors has more potential than Melo.

Can anyone else weigh in on this?


----------



## 29380

*Re: The Melo Situation... (merged)*



Tragedy said:


> Man you guys are nuts.
> 
> The 2003 draft will go down as the best draft next to 1984, and Favors has more potential than Melo.
> 
> Can anyone else weigh in on this?


1996 > 2003


----------



## Tragedy

*Re: The Melo Situation... (merged)*



zombieknicks4life said:


> 1996 > 2003


That was a good draft too. Either way 2003 is on the very short list of all time drafts

from picks 1-5 only an idiot could mess up.

oh wait.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: The Melo Situation... (merged)*

how do you rank these 4?

Al Horford (When he is a rookie or Soph)
Jordan Hill
Cousins
Favors (PF, 6'8" without shoes)

Experts believe that Favors will be as good as Al Horford in the future.


----------



## Luke

*Re: The Melo Situation... (merged)*

LOL at Favors becoming a better player then 'Melo. Are Nets fans really so delusional that they think that he's going to end up being a top ten player in the leauge? Seriously? I'm not even an Anthony fan but it would take a complete and total idiot to pass that deal up.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: The Melo Situation... (merged)*



VanillaPrice said:


> LOL at Favors becoming a better player then 'Melo. Are Nets fans really so delusional that they think that he's going to end up being a top ten player in the leauge? Seriously? I'm not even an Anthony fan but it would take a complete and total idiot to pass that deal up.


Are you kidding me? In Favors, WIlliams, and Lopez you're talking about three of the top 5 players in the NBA today!!!


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: The Melo Situation... (merged)*

For the Nets getting Melo would also help them go after Chris Paul down the road. If Denver is willing to take Favors for Melo the Nets should jump on that deal immediately.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: The Melo Situation... (merged)*

They are saying that Nets will have 3 top 5 players in the nba in the future, not now.

Favors
Williams
Lopez


----------



## Ron

*Re: The Melo Situation... (merged)*



zombieknicks4life said:


> 1996 > 2003


1960 > 1996 > 2003

To wit:

1. Oscar Robertson
2. Jerry West
6. Lenny Wilkens
8. Tom "Satch" Sanders
39. Al Attles

Per Wiki:



> Three players from this draft, Robertson, West and 6th pick Lenny Wilkens, have been inducted to the Basketball Hall of Fame.[7] They were also named in the 50 Greatest Players in NBA History list announced at the league's 50th anniversary in 1996.


Can't beat that. No way.


----------



## Ron

*Re: The Melo Situation... (merged)*



jericho said:


> I... okay.


:laugh:


----------



## Dre

*Re: The Melo Situation...*



Vuchato said:


> ...what? Neither Favors nor the two picks were on that team last year, obviously. Favors has the potential to be better than Melo, and a good chance to get at least close to Melo. I'd probably do the Favors/Murphy/Humphries/picks for Melo deal, but I'm not sure the fit is great, because that means that we have one good big man (and no one else you could even consider to be a starter), unless you count Melo/Outlaw/James as a PF, but that would make the team pretty bad at rebounding. Aside from that, the teams 3 best perimeter players would all be pretty unreliable shooters (though the bench would be great at it). IF this does go down I'd hope there would be something to follow it, preferably moving James for a PF, getting Anderson back would be nice.


All those losses fried you guys' brains, I'm never debating a Nets fan on anything Nets related again.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: The Melo Situation... (merged)*

Nets are hugh and hughest overrated. A couple of month ago, 

They said they were front runner of free agent LeBron and Bosh, but they eventually sign free agent Travis Outlaw and John Petro instead.

On paper, they have 3 of the top 5 players, but (there is always a but for Nets) ....

They compare 6'8" Favors(without shoes) to 7 feet Tim Duncan, but ....


----------



## Vuchato

*Re: The Melo Situation... (merged)*



VanillaPrice said:


> LOL at Favors becoming a better player then 'Melo. Are Nets fans really so delusional that they think that he's going to end up being a top ten player in the leauge? Seriously? I'm not even an Anthony fan but it would take a complete and total idiot to pass that deal up.


I said he could be. I'll take Dwight over Melo, and I think Favors has the potential to be as good as Dwight.

And I'm starting to remember why I never bother coming into the General forum anymore.


----------



## Luke

*Re: The Melo Situation... (merged)*



E.H. Munro said:


> Are you kidding me? In Favors, WIlliams, and Lopez you're talking about three of the top 5 players in the NBA *today*!!!


Today? What the hell are you talking about? We're talking about the three best players in NBA *history*. Some freaking people.


----------



## HB

*Re: The Melo Situation... (merged)*

Lol at Melo the top 5 player and this guy tragedy calling Nets fans idiots for saying the deal is too much...okie dokie...I am sure Melo will play SF and PF, after all he is a top 5 player right?


----------



## Luke

*Re: The Melo Situation... (merged)*



Vuchato said:


> I said he could be. I'll take Dwight over Melo, and I think Favors has the potential to be as good as Dwight.
> 
> And I'm starting to remember why I never bother coming into the General forum anymore.


Hahahahahaha. Seriously? What the hell has Favors done to indicate in any way that he will even be close to Dwight? I'm literally dumbfounded right now. Like, I get it, people can be homers and say dumb things occasionally, but this is taking is so much farther.


----------



## HB

*Re: The Melo Situation... (merged)*

Heh slow down with the crazy talk...Favors and Dwight shouldnt even be mentioned in the same sentence...with that said, when the Nets trade away Favors and Murphy with Humphries for Melo...who the heck is supposed to play at the 4 spot? Joe Smith?


----------



## Vuchato

*Re: The Melo Situation... (merged)*



VanillaPrice said:


> Hahahahahaha. Seriously? What the hell has Favors done to indicate in any way that he will even be close to Dwight? I'm literally dumbfounded right now. Like, I get it, people can be homers and say dumb things occasionally, but this is taking is so much farther.


He was just taken third overall, is the youngest player in the league, as athletic as almost everyone, and has a good head on his shoulders. If you can't see that he has tremendous potential, then you honestly have no idea what you're talking about.

I'm sure you're all gonna come back with some comment that doesn't add anything, but I think I'll listen to the coach over you guys.



> "He reminds me of Duncan in the way he's coachable,'' the New Jersey coach said in an interview with FanHouse about Favors, taken with the No. 3 overall pick out of Georgia Tech in last month's draft. "Duncan was that way, very coachable, but also very skilled. Duncan came in with the left and the right hand and came in with the ability to shoot the ball. And this kid didn't even go through college as long as Duncan. We're just getting him after his freshman year.''





> “We just absolutely loved this young man, we think he has a great upside,” Nets coach Avery Johnson said. “We think potentially if he can put on another 15 more pounds, we have a Dwight Howard with . . . .not only power, but some finesse, a great touch around the basket. So we think he’s explosive -- if you look at his calves and rear end and base, he’s really good. He’s strong down there. We’re going to get him stronger in the upper body, but we’re really excited about this young man.”





> “If you go back and look, Kevin Garnett didn’t start for the first few months of his career – Sam Mitchell did,” Avery Johnson said today. “Then Kevin took over at Game 38 or 41 or something like that. That’s what I envision for Derrick Favors.”
> So, it’s realistic to expect the rook to be a starter for the second half of his first season?
> “Here’s how I look at it,” the coach said. “He’s a kid. But he gets man-sized rebounds. He gets the ones that veteran starting power forwards cannot get. He blocks shots – because of that, he’ll experience some early foul trouble. He has left-handed and right-handed jump hooks that are as fine-tuned as some 10-year veterans.
> “So if we can get him 10 more pounds of muscle – especially in the chest area – and he gets to understand the NBA game better, this kid can do what Garnett and what Stoudemire did as time progressed. That’s what we’re hanging our hat on.”


----------



## Luke

*Re: The Melo Situation... (merged)*



Vuchato said:


> He was just taken third overall, is the youngest player in the league, as athletic as almost everyone, and has a good head on his shoulders. If you can't see that he has tremendous potential, then you honestly have no idea what you're talking about.
> 
> I'm sure you're all gonna come back with some comment that doesn't add anything, but I think I'll listen to the coach over you guys.


You actually think that his own coach is going to say anything bad about him before he plays his first NBA game? Are you that dumb?

I'm not knocking Favors or saying that he's going to be a terrible player, but coming out of the gate saying that he's going to be better then Dwight freaking Howard is just making you look dumb. It's a no brainer move for the Nets, if they don't pull the trigger they will regret it.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: The Melo Situation... (merged)*

This is the point:

If McNuggets want to rebuild completely, they need to talk to Nets. Nets can offer both Lopez and Favors.

If McNuggets still try to make the playoffs, they need to talk to Rockets. Rockets can offer them a lot of more than those two - 

Brooks/Martin/Scola/Hill/Patterson/Two Knicks first round picks for some overpaid contracts.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: The Melo Situation... (merged)*

Sept 21 Chance Analysis:

1. La La (La stands for Los Angles) - 40% chance

2. Rockets - 30% chance 

3. Nets - 15% chance (Melo is not interested in Nets)

4. other


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: The Melo Situation... (merged)*

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5602165&campaign=rss&source=twitter&ex_cid=Twitter_espn_5602165

Chicago and Knicks on Melo's wish list.



> Carmelo Anthony's wish list starts with the New York Knicks, but that's not the only trade destination he's targeting.
> 
> Sources briefed on the state of Anthony's ongoing push to be dealt by the Denver Nuggets told ESPN.com on Tuesday that the Chicago Bulls are a firm 1A on his list. This is partly attributed to the fact that the Bulls are much closer to assembling the sort of package Denver would want in return for its franchise player than the Knicks.
> 
> Over the last 72 hours, sources said, Anthony's representatives -- headed by agent Leon Rose -- have been ramping up the pressure on the Nuggets to complete a deal with the Knicks or the Bulls before training camps open leaguewide next week.
> 
> Sources say that Denver officials, however, are not inclined to rush into anything. ESPN.com reported Sunday night that the Nuggets, in recent days, have been telling interested teams for the first time that they are willing to field offers for Anthony after resisting such inquiries for weeks.
> 
> But even as the Nuggets have opted to see what sort of haul can be had for their high-scoring forward, there remains strong sentiment within the organization to slow the process down in hopes of mounting one last campaign to win back Anthony's support.
> 
> The Nuggets, sources said, are clinging to the hope that Anthony might reconsider his trade-me stance once he starts hearing some Denver-friendly voices upon reporting to camp after weeks of isolation from the organization.
> 
> Anthony will be greeted by the likes of head coach George Karl and trusted teammate Chauncey Billups trying to convince the 26-year-old that his current team is not far away from a return to contention in the Western Conference and that the foundation of the group that reached the West finals in 2009 should not be scrapped.
> 
> Yet sources say that the message from Anthony's camp to the Nuggets has stayed consistent: New York and Chicago are the preferred landing spots, with New Jersey and Houston also still in the conversation.
> 
> The Nets remain a viable option because of their planned move to Brooklyn and because the Nets have what several rival executives believe to be the deepest cache of assets to satisfy Denver's trade demands in its worst-case scenario.
> 
> Though the Rockets are the fourth known team in the Anthony sweepstakes, multiple sources close to the situation insisted Friday that Houston is not making guard Kevin Martin part of the discussions. The Nuggets, sources maintain, would expect a combination of expiring contracts, future first-round draft picks and at least one marketable young talent if they ultimately concede that Anthony must be traded between now and the February trading deadline.
> 
> The Nuggets have offered Anthony, who can become a free agent next July, a three-year extension worth $65 million.
> 
> ESPN.com reported Monday that the Nets are widely regarded in NBA front-office circles as the frontrunner for Anthony. New Jersey is reportedly willing to package No. 3 overall pick Derrick Favors with the expiring contracts of Troy Murphy and Kris Humphries and at least one future first-rounder.
> 
> It's believed that the Nets, though, would insist on Anthony agreeing to a contract extension as part of the trade -- as Kevin Garnett did when Minnesota sent him to Boston in the summer of 2007 -- before they agree to surrender assets such as Favors and draft picks.
> 
> The Bulls could theoretically trump any New Jersey offer if they were willing to include center Joakim Noah as part of a deal for Anthony. Sources with knowledge of Chicago's thinking, however, have maintained for days that the Bulls are strongly against the inclusion of Noah, revealing instead that Chicago has offered a package featuring Luol Deng, Taj Gibson and one future first-rounder.
> 
> Playing alongside former Team USA teammate Amare Stoudemire in New York is thought to hold the greatest appeal to Anthony, something Stoudemire openly discussed earlier in the summer. The Knicks, though, simply lack the draft picks to sweeten a package that sources say would be centered around Eddy Curry's expiring contract and either Danilo Gallinari or Anthony Randolph -- but not both of those young players.
> 
> The Knicks, Bulls and Nets all stand to benefit from Denver's determination to send Anthony out of the Western Conference if it decides there is no alternative apart from trading him, but sources close to the process note that a third team would almost certainly have to be recruited to help facilitate a deal.
> 
> Reports have persisted for weeks that Anthony, wielding the hammer of his potential free agency in the wake of the defections of LeBron James and Chris Bosh to Miami, wants out. ESPN The Magazine's Ric Bucher reported Aug. 16 that it was "a matter of when, not if, Anthony and the Nuggets will go their separate ways."
> 
> But Anthony has not made any such declarations publicly, announcing Tuesday night via his Twitter feed: "Everyone has [their] own opinion. It's funny. It cracks me up."
> 
> Yet Anthony did add in a follow-up tweet: "When I know something ... you guys will know something."


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: The Melo Situation... (merged)*

my source tells me that Nuggets are not interested in trade proposals from Knicks and Bulls at all. McNuggets think these proposals are BS. I don't understand this article.

One of the LA teams is interested in Melo.


----------



## futuristxen

*Re: The Melo Situation... (merged)*

Thing is no team in their right mind is going to trade for Melo if they're not on the list of teams he wants to be with. Otherwise you're going to give away the farm just for a guy to leave you in a year. I think eventually he ends up in New York with the Knicks for pennies on the dollar.

I can't think of a team crazy enough to trade for him when he wouldn't resign with them. The Timberwolves?


----------



## MemphisX

*Re: The Melo Situation... (merged)*

If I am the Nuggets or any other team, I call Melo's bluff. There is no freaking way Melo turns down the extension to go into 2011 as a free agent. I don't care who trades for him. I can guarantee you that he will sign an extension.


----------



## Futurama_Fanatic

*Re: The Melo Situation... (merged)*



Ballscientist said:


> my source tells me


hehe


----------



## Dre

*Re: The Melo Situation... (merged)*



> ESPN reports that in the past 72 hours, Carmelo Anthony's representatives have increased pressure on Denver to deal the superstar to either the Knicks or Bulls before training camp opens next week.
> 
> The Knicks remain Anthony's top choice but the Bulls are now firmly established as a close second. The Nets and Rockets are also in the picture.
> 
> Some within the Denver organization favor slowing down the process, hoping that Anthony might re-consider his stance once he is back with the team on a daily basis.
> 
> The Knicks are offering either Danilo Gallinari or Anthony Randolph, but not both, along with the expiring contract of Eddy Curry. New York may also be willing to include its first-round pick, in 2014.
> 
> The Bulls appear to be unwilling to offer Joakim Noah, proposing instead a deal centered around Luol Deng, Taj Gibson and a first-round pick.
> 
> Contrary to a recent report, the Rockets are not making Kevin Martin available in their bid to acquire Anthony.


http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archi...e_for_trade_to_knicks_or_bulls/#ixzz10Eb64X5S


----------



## Dre

*Re: The Melo Situation... (merged)*



MemphisX said:


> If I am the Nuggets or any other team, I call Melo's bluff. There is no freaking way Melo turns down the extension to go into 2011 as a free agent. I don't care who trades for him. I can guarantee you that he will sign an extension.


If he doesn't want to be on the team, he'll sign the extension but then pull the same act next year until you're forced to trade him. And he definitely seems like the type to dog it.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: The Melo Situation... (merged)*

Unless Chicago can convince Cleveland to eat Deng's deal, I'm not sure why the Nuggets agree to become a 35-45 win team for the privilege of a mid to low first round pick.


----------



## jericho

*Re: The Melo Situation... (merged)*



Dre™ said:


> If he doesn't want to be on the team, he'll sign the extension but then pull the same act next year until you're forced to trade him. And he definitely seems like the type to dog it.


I agree. Nuggets brass just have to look the guy in the eye and assess whether there's any real case to be made that might persuade him to stay. Personally I think the Nuggets had their best chance two seasons ago and it's time to either start tweaking the roster around Melo now or just fold the tent and start over. 

It really looks like he wants out and nothing is likely to change that. I thought the same about Kobe a few seasons ago, but the difference was that Kobe was a) a bit more mature, and b) definitely worth more hassle to the team trying to keep him.

I think Anthony is and will continue to be a top 10 talent, but not the kind of player or mentality that you go for broke in building a championship contender around. He's improved his game in many ways, but he's not much of a team leader and I think is never going to be rock-solid emotionally or psychologically. In short, as a Nuggets fan, I worry that his streaks of brilliance on the court amount to fool's gold and I'd just as soon some other team roll the dice on the next leg of his career.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: The Melo Situation... (merged)*

The part of that article that's truly bizarre, however, is the implication that Denver would be willing to consider an offer that includes Randolph and Gallinari, but that New York will only trade one of them. WTF? Are the Knicks really that stupid? Wilson Chandler can be the swing forward. Deal both and get your other scorer to go along with Amar'e.


----------



## jericho

*Re: The Melo Situation... (merged)*



E.H. Munro said:


> The part of that article that's truly bizarre, however, is the implication that Denver would be willing to consider an offer that includes Randolph and Gallinari, but that New York will only trade one of them. WTF? Are the Knicks really that stupid? Wilson Chandler can be the swing forward. Deal both and get your other scorer to go along with Amar'e.


I concur. If the Knicks aren't convinced that losing Randolph and Gallinari is worth the opportunity to trot out a Melo-Amare tandem, then they should definitely hold onto their stellar young prospects and enjoy the next few seasons. To my mind, that deal should be more attractive to the Knicks then the Nuggets.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: The Melo Situation... (merged)*

Melo's Wish List 

1. La La (Los Angeles because of Hoolywood)

2. Knicks

3. Bulls

4. Rockets

5. Nets


----------



## Krimzon

*Re: The Melo Situation... (merged)*

Melo should just stay with the Nuggets. It's only another year. He's making it difficult for teams to get him. If the Knicks get him, I think he'll resign with the team. Any other team I think he will leave.


----------



## Wilt_The_Stilt

*Re: The Melo Situation... (merged)*



E.H. Munro said:


> The part of that article that's truly bizarre, however, is the implication that Denver would be willing to consider an offer that includes Randolph and Gallinari, but that New York will only trade one of them. WTF? Are the Knicks really that stupid? Wilson Chandler can be the swing forward. Deal both and get your other scorer to go along with Amar'e.


I was thinking the same thing. If the Knicks could get Melo for Randolph/Gallo/Curry they have to do it.


----------



## Dre

*Re: The Melo Situation... (merged)*

Now I understand why NBA GMs have high turnover rates...there's just no reason you don't trade cogs for a player you put cogs around.

I'll never understand why so many people overrate potential in relation to certain production.


----------



## Hyperion

*Re: The Melo Situation... (merged)*



Dre™ said:


> Now I understand why NBA GMs have high turnover rates...there's just no reason you don't trade cogs for a player you put cogs around.
> 
> I'll never understand why so many people overrate potential in relation to certain production.


When life gives you lemons, make lemonade. In the NBA, they try to make lemonade out of yellow painted rocks.

I too don't understand the logic of taking potential over talent. I guess the reason is the same reason Kaas Vegas is so popular.


----------



## simply_amazing

*Re: The Melo Situation... (merged)*

'Melo's the most whipped player in the association since Doug Christie.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: The Melo Situation... (merged)*

rockets proposal does not include Martin.

3 rookies contracts are in the package:
Brooks
Jordan Hill
Patrict Patterson

Trade Exception
Battier
2 knicks picks

Thru the third team


----------



## futuristxen

*Re: The Melo Situation... (merged)*



jericho said:


> I concur. If the Knicks aren't convinced that losing Randolph and Gallinari is worth the opportunity to trot out a Melo-Amare tandem, then they should definitely hold onto their stellar young prospects and enjoy the next few seasons. To my mind, that deal should be more attractive to the Knicks then the Nuggets.


Yeah but the Knicks plan to sign him outright this summer. There's no reason for them to blow up the house to try and get Melo now. They'd be happy if Denver doesn't trade him at all.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: The Melo Situation... (merged)*



futuristxen said:


> Yeah but the Knicks plan to sign him outright this summer. There's no reason for them to blow up the house to try and get Melo now. They'd be happy if Denver doesn't trade him at all.


But why take the gamble for the sake of holding onto a backup forward?


----------



## futuristxen

*Re: The Melo Situation... (merged)*



Wilt_The_Stilt said:


> I was thinking the same thing. If the Knicks could get Melo for Randolph/Gallo/Curry they have to do it.


The one thing I will say about it though is....I mean what's the point of keeping Randolph/Gallo when both pretty much play the same position as Melo?

Felton/Melo/Amare is your core. No reason not run with it.

I have to think the Knicks are just playing hardball because they are confident they'll get him in free agency.


----------



## Tragedy

*Re: The Melo Situation... (merged)*



E.H. Munro said:


> The part of that article that's truly bizarre, however, is the implication that Denver would be willing to consider an offer that includes Randolph and Gallinari, but that New York will only trade one of them. WTF? Are the Knicks really that stupid? Wilson Chandler can be the swing forward. Deal both and get your other scorer to go along with Amar'e.


The only thing I can think of is if they hve some grand plan to trade either randolph or gallinari down the line.

They probably would want to trade either or, then sign and trade the other next offseason or the season thereafter in gallinari's case


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: The Melo Situation... (merged)*

1. Trade 2004 and 2006 picks to Wolves for 2011 and 2013 first round picks

2. Gallo and Randolph to 76ers for Turner, then trade Turner/Wolves picks to Nuggets for Melo.


----------



## 27dresses

*Re: The Melo Situation... (merged)*



Ballscientist said:


> 1. Trade 2004 and 2006 picks to Wolves for 2011 and 2013 first round picks
> 
> 2. Gallo and Randolph to 76ers for Turner, then trade Turner/Wolves picks to Nuggets for Melo.


Trade '04 & '06 picks?


----------



## someone

*Re: The Melo Situation... (merged)*



Ballscientist said:


> 1. Trade 2004 and 2006 picks to Wolves for 2011 and 2013 first round picks
> 
> 2. Gallo and Randolph to 76ers for Turner, then trade Turner/Wolves picks to Nuggets for Melo.


----------



## Dre

*Re: The Melo Situation... (merged)*



> The New Jersey Nets spent all day Wednesday trying to put together a multi-team deal for Carmelo Anthony. The reported deal of Troy Murphy, Kris Humphries, Derrick Favors and a draft pick is not going to happen, so the Nets have been searching for a third and possibly fourth team to get involved.
> 
> Denver wants Brook Lopez, but he is the one untouchable on New Jersey's roster, largely because the Nets know Anthony would not re-sign with them if Lopez is gone. Even with Lopez, Anthony may not sign an extension with the Nets, especially if Devin Harris is moved in the trade.
> 
> It's true that New York and Chicago are Anthony's preferred destinations and the only clubs he would definitely re-sign with. New Jersey, however, believes Anthony will re-sign with it as well, which may be wishful thinking.
> 
> New York's efforts to get a third team involved to sweeten its offer of Eddy Curry and either Wilson Chandler, Danilo Gallinari or Anthony Randolph with a draft pick have been futile, so the Knicks are currently on the outside looking in. And Chicago's not budging from its stance of not including Noah in a deal for Anthony.
> 
> Anthony's agent, Leon Rose, is pushing the Nuggets hard to move Anthony before training camp begins next week. Sources say Denver has been a bit unrealistic in its trade demands and may want to go to Anthony's reps with a "Hey-we-tried" story when camp begins.
> 
> Denver has been trying to pawn off some of its bad contracts in any deal for Anthony.
> 
> Houston is in the mix, but like New Jersey, it has no guarantee that Anthony will agree to stay there long-term.


...


----------



## Hyperion

*Re: The Melo Situation... (merged)*



E.H. Munro said:


> The part of that article that's truly bizarre, however, is the implication that Denver would be willing to consider an offer that includes Randolph and Gallinari, but that New York will only trade one of them. WTF? Are the Knicks really that stupid? Wilson Chandler can be the swing forward. Deal both and get your other scorer to go along with Amar'e.


You don't get it do you? This will be the first time that the Knicks will have a first round pick in a long time! They want to make sure it's a lotto pick!


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: The Melo Situation... (merged)*

all nuggets need is one word "wow".

Nuggets are trying to trade Kwame, and Knicks offer Pau Gasol.

Wow

Assume that Melo is Kwame, ...


----------



## Hyperion

*Re: The Melo Situation... (merged)*



Ballscientist said:


> all nuggets need is one word "wow".
> 
> Nuggets are trying to trade Kwame, and Knicks offer Pau Gasol.
> 
> Wow
> 
> Assume that Melo is Kwame, ...


wow. Your infallible is logic.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: The Melo Situation... (merged)*

Nuggets want Scola and two Knicks first rounders as the centerpiece from Rockets.

Rockets are willing to offer Nuggets trade exception.


----------



## Spaceman Spiff

*Re: The Melo Situation... (merged)*

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5610989

They're talking a 4 team deal that puts Melo on the Nets. The one hurdle is if Melo will sign an extension with the Nets. I don't see that team winning more than 20 games, esp since Harris and Favors would be in the deal. 

But never fear Nets fans because there's still Terrance "LeKobe McJordawade" Williams on the team.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: The Melo Situation... (merged)*



> The Denver Nuggets are having serious discussions about a four-way trade that would land Carmelo Anthony with the New Jersey Nets, according to sources with knowledge of the negotiations.
> 
> The proposed deal, sources said, also would involve the Utah Jazz and the Charlotte Bobcats. It would deliver Nets rookie forward Derrick Favors, Jazz veteran Andrei Kirilenko and multiple first-round picks to Denver in exchange for their franchise player, potentially bringing a resolution to Anthony's uncertain future before the Nuggets hold their first practice of the new season.
> 
> Sources told ESPN.com that the deal, which has yet to be finalized, also would send former All-Star point guard Devin Harris to Charlotte, with Bobcats forward Boris Diaw moving to Utah.
> 
> The four teams, said one source close to the talks, are "seriously engaged" after extensive talks Thursday.


http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/news/story?id=5610989

More in link


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: The Melo Situation... (merged)*



Spaceman Spiff said:


> But never fear Nets fans because there's still Terrance "LeKobe McJordawade" Williams on the team.


I think the only question any Nets fan has now is who the heck does 'Melo start over, LeKobe Williams or Courtney Lee Superstar?


----------



## FSH

*Re: The Melo Situation... (merged)*



Spaceman Spiff said:


> http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5610989
> 
> They're talking a 4 team deal that puts Melo on the Nets. The one hurdle is if Melo will sign an extension with the Nets. I don't see that team winning more than 20 games, esp since Harris and Favors would be in the deal.


Lol what? If anything Nets will win more game because they traded Harris...And Favors? He is a raw rookie that would just sit on the bench learning getting garbage minutes...Please explain your logic on how Harris and Favor > Melo right now


----------



## Dissonance

*Re: The Melo Situation... (merged)*

I bet Melo squashes the trade by refusing an extension.


----------



## Spaceman Spiff

*Re: The Melo Situation... (merged)*



FSH said:


> Lol what? If anything Nets will win more game because they traded Harris...And Favors? He is a raw rookie that would just sit on the bench learning getting garbage minutes...Please explain your logic on how Harris and Favor > Melo right now


Exactly.... 20 wins is more than they won last year


----------



## Spaceman Spiff

*Re: The Melo Situation... (merged)*



E.H. Munro said:


> I think the only question any Nets fan has now is who the heck does 'Melo start over, LeKobe Williams or Courtney Lee Superstar?


Courtney Lee is now on the Rockets. 82-0!!!


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: The Melo Situation... (merged)*



Spaceman Spiff said:


> http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5610989
> 
> They're talking a 4 team deal that puts Melo on the Nets. The one hurdle is if Melo will sign an extension with the Nets. I don't see that team winning more than 20 games, esp since Harris and Favors would be in the deal.
> 
> But never fear Nets fans because there's still Terrance "LeKobe McJordawade" Williams on the team.


This is a great trade!!

, but Nets are going to win bottom 5 because of no supporting casts.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: The Melo Situation... (merged)*



Spaceman Spiff said:


> Courtney Lee is now on the Rockets. 82-0!!!


Yeah, but I had to use my chance to get out the Courtney Lee Superstar line. In all honesty I think he has the potential to be a better version of Tony Allen (mostly because he can shoot). Useful. But, not what Nets or Magic fans were making him out to be. :bsmile:


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: The Melo Situation... (merged)*

This is my thought:

Melo has certain agreement before the trade is proposed.

Did Nuggets save any money?


----------



## Tragedy

*Re: The Melo Situation... (merged)*



E.H. Munro said:


> Yeah, but I had to use my chance to get out the Courtney Lee Superstar line. In all honesty I think he has the potential to be a better version of Tony Allen (mostly because he can shoot). Useful. But, not what Nets or Magic fans were making him out to be. :bsmile:


I love when fans of a team think a player will be a star, then they get traded and they pretend he never existed.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: The Melo Situation... (merged)*



Tragedy said:


> I love when fans of a team think a player will be a star, then they get traded and they pretend he never existed.


It's easy in Lee's case, as he's bench fodder. :bsmile:


----------



## HKF

*Re: The Melo Situation... (merged)*

Hmmm, Diaw in Jerry Sloan's offense would be interesting.


----------



## MemphisX

*Re: The Melo Situation... (merged)*



HKF said:


> Hmmm, Diaw in Jerry Sloan's offense would be interesting.


I guess you missed Diaw this summer...


----------



## Blue

*Re: The Melo Situation... (merged)*



Tragedy said:


> I love when fans of a team think a player will be a star, then they get traded and they pretend he never existed.


Courtney Lee is a nice player, I was simply comparing positional value of a shooter in the draft to that of a PG. Funny how people still think I consider him a superstar... It's also funny how neither Clippers or Grizzlies 'superstar' SG's have made their substantial mark on the league yet. I like EGo and Mayo, but it's perposterous to act like Lee can not bring similar things to the table as a role player. EGo is known for defense and shooting, just like Lee. He is Rip Hamilton-esque.


----------



## Seanzie

*Re: The Melo Situation... (merged)*



E.H. Munro said:


> It's easy in Lee's case, as he's bench fodder. :bsmile:


You never miss an opportunity to diss any Magic player. No one ever made Courtney Lee out to be anything more than a very solid role player (which he is). I'd rather have his shooting, quickness, and defensive abilities than VC's corpse right now.


----------



## 29380

*Re: The Melo Situation... (merged)*



> JonRothstein According to the NY Daily News, Carmelo Anthony has signed off on the deal to the #Nets


http://twitter.com/JonRothstein


----------



## Dre

*Re: The Melo Situation... (merged)*

Whoa


----------



## 29380

*Re: The Melo Situation... (merged)*



> According to the New York Daily News, a "reliable source" reports that Carmelo Anthony has approved a trade to the Nets.
> 
> Presumably this means that Anthony would agree to a long-term contract extension upon a trade to New Jersey.
> 
> A trade could be agreed upon as early as Saturday.


Read more: http://basketball.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/69257/20100924/source_melo_approves_trade_to_nets/#ixzz10UlNOuu0


----------



## Dre

*Re: The Melo Situation... (merged)*

So what are they looking like, Harris, Melo, Lopez...does that even get them there with the Bulls much less the Heat or Celtics.


----------



## 29380

*Re: The Melo Situation... (merged)*



Dre™;6371247 said:


> So what are they looking like, Harris, Melo, Lopez...does that even get them there with the Bulls much less the Heat or Celtics.


Nets are sending Harris to Charlotte in the 4 team trade being talked about.


----------



## Wilmatic2

*Re: The Melo Situation... (merged)*

East coast stacking the talent.


----------



## Spaceman Spiff

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*

So Nets lineup would be

Farmar
LeKobird Jordawade
Melo
Murphy
Abdul-Olajuduncan


----------



## HB

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*

They've traded away their point guard smh...Terrence will be playing point heavily. With that said, gotta think Paul will be considering the Nets. The team definitely looks like a playoff squad now.

Woj says the Nets are trying to get Augustin from Charlotte.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*

Let's not get too far ahead of ourselves.


----------



## HB

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*

What? Lol


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*

What are they trading for him? Brooke Shields has to be re-upped that summer, so I don't think they'll have the cap space to sign him.


----------



## HB

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*

Oh you mean Paul...gotcha! I just think the team will be enticing to him, getting him is another thing.


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*

Whether or not they will have enough money to sign Paul will depend on the new CBA and what they end up paying Lopez. Simply from a talent stand point the Nets have put themselves at the top of the list of suitable situations for Paul.

I expect the Nets to at least be a 7-8th seed this year if the proposed trade goes through.

Lopez
Murphy
Melo
Morrow
Augustin

T-Will
Farmar
Outlaw
Joe Smith

I would put them in the same level as the Bucks right now. Depending on the development of Lopez/Augustin/T-Will this team might be better than it looks right now.


----------



## GrandKenyon6

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*

Hopefully this goes through. This is a great trade for the Nets and they still have some flexibility to make other moves.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*

What do you mean what? We haven't seen it reported by any place but one yet, so let's not start getting overboard with collateral damage and such.


----------



## 29380

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*



> WojYahooNBA: DEN still hasn't signed off on deal; haven't shown other teams rush to do so. "They won't get a better deal," one exec says


http://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA


----------



## Dre

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*

Exactly. Calm down.


----------



## 29380

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*



> NYDNInterNets Denver and Utah holding up the deal at this point. Other teams on board. Denver wants better deal. Don't understand their Noah fascination


http://twitter.com/NYDNInterNets


----------



## HB

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*

The deal will happen.


----------



## OneBadLT123

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*

Melo has a better shot at winning in Denver then he will ever have in Jersey. 

This has LaLa's name all over it.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*

Each of these organizations have like 3-4 people in discussion over this deal..it only takes for one person to say something to break it off. 

I don't see how Denver to New Jersey is a positive move if Favors is gone though. Just don't. This is a horrible mistake by Carmelo.


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*

I don't think this move is about winning at all. I think it's just a matter of getting out of Denver. For whatever reason Melo wants to get out of there asap.

That said I still like the Nets future with Melo on board. It's not like Melo had any chance to win a championship in Denver anyway.


----------



## HB

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*

Lalastica!!!!


----------



## ATLien

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*

lol Morrow/Melo/Lopez? The Heat are shaking in their boots.


----------



## mvP to the Wee

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*

Hopefully this gets turned in a Bulls-Jazz-Nuggets 3 way deal


----------



## thaKEAF

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*

It makes no sense for NJ to do this deal. Giving up Harris + multiple picks + Favors kinda ruins the team unless they get someone in the upcoming free agency years.


----------



## Diable

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*

I hope we don't end up stuck with Harris and that contract. Diaw's contract is bad, but it has an end soon. Harris isn't even really a better player than Boris, he just plays for the New Hyperbole Nets.


----------



## HB

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*



Diable said:


> I hope we don't end up stuck with Harris and that contract. Diaw's contract is bad, but it has an end soon. *Harris isn't even really a better player than Boris*, he just plays for the New Hyperbole Nets.


*O_O*


----------



## Dre

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*



thaKEAF said:


> It makes no sense for NJ to do this deal. Giving up Harris + multiple picks + Favors kinda ruins the team unless they get someone in the upcoming free agency years.


A top 10 player is a top 10 player. You get him and then figure **** out.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*











As a Rockets fan I'm rooting for this trade to go through, anything to help New Jersey bump New York from the #8 spot.


----------



## thaKEAF

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*



Dre™ said:


> A top 10 player is a top 10 player. You get him and then figure **** out.


I dunno I wouldn't want to do it and if I was Melo why would I sign an extension when it's just me and Brook Lopez? No draft picks because they're all sent to Denver. Nothing but cap space which we learned doesn't mean that much this past offseason.


----------



## mvP to the Wee

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*

Denver and Utah holding up the deal at this point. Other teams on board. Denver wants better deal. Don't understand their Noah fascination about 1 hour ago via web


----------



## Dre

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*



thaKEAF said:


> I dunno I wouldn't want to do it and if I was Melo why would I sign an extension when it's just me and Brook Lopez? No draft picks because they're all sent to Denver. Nothing but cap space which we learned doesn't mean that much this past offseason.


How can you say that when Rose and Wade got players over to play with them? 

Cap space means nothing when it's just cap space, but if you're being paid good money to play with a good team that's different. 

If they can get Paul they can compete with the Heat I believe. Dwight's about to be up in another two years too.


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*



thaKEAF said:


> I dunno I wouldn't want to do it and if I was Melo why would I sign an extension when it's just me and Brook Lopez? No draft picks because they're all sent to Denver. Nothing but cap space which we learned doesn't mean that much this past offseason.


Melo really wants to get out of Denver. His options are limited because Denver gets to decide who they wish to deal with and are not that afraid of Melo walking away for nothing. The Nuggets understand that Melo wants to get an extension before the new CBA so they have a lot of leverage in this discussion.


----------



## thaKEAF

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*

Yeah I mean if they can get Paul or Parker it's a no brainer. I just don't trust Billy King being a huge follower of the Sixers back in the AI days lol.


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*



P to the Wee said:


> Denver and Utah holding up the deal at this point. Other teams on board. Denver wants better deal. Don't understand their Noah fascination about 1 hour ago via web


I don't understand why Denver wants Noah either. If Melo is gone that team is immediately in rebuilding mode and Noah isn't needed there. I would take Favors and picks and go for there.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*

It's hard to find a good defensive center. It's not like Noah is going to push them into the playoffs or anything, he's just a good piece to have in the meantime.


----------



## 29380

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*



> Contrary to an earlier report, Carmelo Anthony has not yet decided whether to agree to a long-term contract with the Nets.
> 
> "The Daily News reported Friday night that Anthony had consented to the trade. A person close to Anthony said that decision had not been made," wrote Howard Beck of The New York Times. "The person requested anonymity because he did not want to jeopardize his relationship with Anthony."
> 
> A four-team trade is near completion. But Anthony essentially holds veto power because New Jersey will not part with two assets, Derrick Favors and Devin Harris, unless Anthony agrees to a contract extension with the team.




Read more: http://basketball.realgm.com/src_wi...as_not_yet_agreed_to_join_nets/#ixzz10Vfaa88H


----------



## cpawfan

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*

I'm shocked that people are still vastly overrating Devin Harris. Besides, if the Nets land Melo, Harris isn't that useful. Melo and Andre Miller wasn't a good pairing and other than being faster, Devin is worse in every facet of the game than Miller.

Avery's Mavs teams were highly efficient on offense, but never had a fast pace.


----------



## eddymac

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*

I really wished we could have done this deal without giving up Harris imo we gave up too much. I understand giving up Harris *OR* Favors but not both. I have mixed feelings about this trade, on one hand we get Melo but we gave up a guy with a lot of potential and we gave up a good young PG.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*

The Nets don't have a good young point guard. They have Devin Harris & Jordan Farmar.


----------



## Dornado

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*



cpawfan said:


> I'm shocked that people are still vastly overrating Devin Harris. Besides, if the Nets land Melo, Harris isn't that useful. Melo and Andre Miller wasn't a good pairing and other than being faster, Devin is worse in every facet of the game than Miller.
> 
> Avery's Mavs teams were highly efficient on offense, but never had a fast pace.


Harris is not just faster, but an entire tier above Miller athletically, younger, and a better scorer.


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*

The only downside of giving up Harris that I can think of is that the Nets can probably get some decent value for him in a separate trade. If Augustin improves slightly the drop off between him and Harris isn't really as much as some people might think.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*

****in Nets man. They must think their 15th man deserves to be starting somewhere


----------



## cpawfan

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*



Dornado said:


> Harris is not just faster, but an entire tier above Miller athletically, younger, and a better scorer.


I knew someone would try to say that. Harris is not a better scorer than Andre Miller. Devin gets vastly overrated from that 08-09 season. Devin is really a 16 PPG guy, not a 20 PPG guy. Miller showed both early in his career in Cleveland and then again with the Sixers that he can also be a 16 PPG if you let him dominate the offense.

When the Blazers were hit with multiple injures last season and Nate turned the offense over Miller, we even saw a 52 point game out of him.

I'm one of the biggest Andre Miller bashers on this site, but he is still better than Devin Harris.


----------



## cpawfan

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*



E.H. Munro said:


> The Nets don't have a good young point guard. They have Devin Harris & Jordan Farmar.


Thanks for stealing my line


----------



## cpawfan

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*



Dre™ said:


> ****in Nets man. They must think their 15th man deserves to be starting somewhere


What do you have against Stephen Graham?


----------



## cpawfan

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*



seifer0406 said:


> The only downside of giving up Harris that I can think of is that the Nets can probably get some decent value for him in a separate trade. If Augustin improves slightly the drop off between him and Harris isn't really as much as some people might think.


Devin's value dropped like a rock, as it should have, last season. There really isn't a big market for him as there aren't many teams where he is an upgrade over what they have.


----------



## Ron

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*

Here is some more information:

*Conflicting reports on if Anthony approved extension with Nets, clearing way for trade*

I agree with the writer, if it doesn't happen by the end of the weekend, it doesn't happen at all. I honestly don't think this deal gets done.


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*



cpawfan said:


> Devin's value dropped like a rock, as it should have, last season. There really isn't a big market for him as there aren't many teams where he is an upgrade over what they have.


While his value did drop the Nets should still be able to get more than DJ Augustin.

That said, this trade does help the Nets shed Harris's salary while adding a temporary PG before Chris Paul gets there.


----------



## futuristxen

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*

If this goes down:
Melo
Amare
Dwight
Lebron
Wade
Bosh
John Wall
Derrick Rose
And more... ALL IN THE EAST.

Insane.

The west is going to be like Dirk, Kobe, and Durant. and that's it.


----------



## Ron

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*



futuristxen said:


> If this goes down:
> The west is going to be like Dirk, Kobe, and Durant. and that's it.


That's enough.

17.


----------



## futuristxen

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*



Ron said:


> That's enough.
> 
> 17.


17?


----------



## Ron

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*

17 is one more than 16.

Think about it. 

No hints.


----------



## futuristxen

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*



Ron said:


> 17 is one more than 16.
> 
> Think about it.
> 
> No hints.


The Eastern Conference has won like 35 championships, which is about 10 more than the entire Western Conference.


----------



## MeirToTheWise

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*

I think he means the Lakers will win their 17th, so it doesn't matter who is in the East.


----------



## Ron

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*



futuristxen said:


> The Eastern Conference has won like 35 championships, which is about 10 more than the entire Western Conference.


See, I couldn't care less about which conference has been historically more dominant.

It really comes down to this: are the Lakers finally going to catch the Celtics in total titles?

I think they will, come June. 

And probably against the Celtics.


----------



## Ron

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*



MeirToTheWise said:


> I think he means the Lakers will win their 17th, so it doesn't matter who is in the East.


You are right, it really doesn't matter who is in the East. Let them beat the **** out of each other. The team that comes out of the East will be too spent to go up against the Lakers, whose only real challenge will come from Oklahoma.


----------



## futuristxen

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*



Ron said:


> See, I couldn't care less about which conference has been historically more dominant.
> 
> It really comes down to this: are the Lakers finally going to catch the Celtics in total titles?
> 
> I think they will, come June.
> 
> And probably against the Celtics.


Oh. What does that have to do with what I posted? I was just saying the future for the Eastern Conference is insane. Superstars galore. The playoffs are going to be crazy for the next decade. Once CP3 comes East as well that will seal it.

The all-star game is going to be a beatdown.


----------



## futuristxen

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*



Ron said:


> You are right, it really doesn't matter who is in the East. Let them beat the **** out of each other. The team that comes out of the East will be too spent to go up against the Lakers, whose only real challenge will come from Oklahoma.


I think a healthy Portland is more of a challenge than Oklahoma for the Lakers.


----------



## Ron

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*

Because you said, "that's it."

And I thought to myself, "well, that's enough." Kobe is Kobe, and that's enough. That's all the Lakers are going to need.

It's not the first time one conference was more talent heavy than the other. But there is a real drain effect when that happens. The Lakers can basically skate through the season (not that they weren't going to do that anyway), while the East keeps beating the **** out of each other.

I don't care about the All-Star game, which has basically become meaningless anyway since no one plays any defense and the score is usually 170-169.

What really matters is the rings.


----------



## Ron

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*



futuristxen said:


> I think a healthy Portland is more of a challenge than Oklahoma for the Lakers.


:laugh: No way.

I would take Oklahoma vs. anyone right about now. Maybe even the Lakers.


----------



## cpawfan

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*



Ron said:


> See, I couldn't care less about which conference has been historically more dominant.
> 
> It really comes down to this: are the Lakers finally going to catch the Celtics in total titles?
> 
> I think they will, come June.
> 
> And probably against the Celtics.


No, it really comes down to their choke job in 2004. I'll never forgive the Lakers for giving larry the clown a ring


----------



## Ron

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*



cpawfan said:


> No, it really comes down to their choke job in 2004. I'll never forgive the Lakers for giving larry the clown a ring


It's ironic that two of the most bitter title losses came in 1989 and 2004, both against the Pistons.

1989, because Pat Riley is a nut-job for working Byron Scott and Magic Johnson into hamstrings. The ******* just had to practice the day before Game 1 of the Finals, and he took a 11-0 playoff run to the wrong end of a sweep in the Finals.

2004, because the Shaq/Kobe bickering finally caught up to them, and they looked terrible against the Pistons for most of the series. Then again, one can say they were lucky to get past Minnesota that year in the WCF, and also kind of a gift with that Fisher shot that changed the whole complexion of the SAS series...


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*



cpawfan said:


> No, it really comes down to their choke job in 2004. I'll never forgive the Lakers for giving larry the clown a ring


Be fair here, they didn't choke, they just weren't ready for the defensive intensity. Had Jermaine O'Neal not got injured the ECF the Pacers would probably have won, because both of those teams were better than LA. The only thing I can't forgive the Lakers for is their failure to win one more game, I had $500 on the Pistons to win and $300 on them to win in 6, had LA taken one more game I would have cleaned up. As it was I turned a slight profit instead.


----------



## caseyrh

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*



futuristxen said:


> I think a healthy Portland is more of a challenge than Oklahoma for the Lakers.


I agree.

I don't see how oklahoma got better. Sure they are young and will improve slightly, but they weren't anything special last season. 

Now portland on the other hand... If Oden is healthy and if he can log about 30 minutes a game (I know, huge if's) . That team could win the west. They are loaded.


----------



## Sleepepro

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*



futuristxen said:


> If this goes down:
> Melo
> Amare
> Dwight
> Lebron
> Wade
> Bosh
> John Wall
> Derrick Rose
> And more... ALL IN THE EAST.
> 
> Insane.
> 
> The west is going to be like Dirk, Kobe, and Durant. and that's it.


Don't forget Paul, Williams, Roy, Duncan, the West is still loaded with talent plus depth, the east just made the star power more equal


----------



## LA68

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*

"Oh gee, we could have gotten Melo but, doggone it ! Without DJ Augustin, we just can't pull the trigger". 

With management like this, the east can have all the talent they can pay for and still be second fiddle to the west. 

The Nets have a chance at Melo, they should do whatever it takes and sign it before someone changes their mind. PG's are a dime a dozen. Melos don't come around much at all !

btw, Augustin dribbles with his head down. Not exactly an assist machine. With Williams, Melo, Murphy and Lopez, they don't need another shooter anyways. Just do the deal already !


----------



## Ben

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*

Charlotte are getting Devin Harris for Boris Diaw? Can't be bad.


----------



## futuristxen

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*



Ron said:


> :laugh: No way.
> 
> I would take Oklahoma vs. anyone right about now. Maybe even the Lakers.


Don't the Lakers usually have trouble with a healthy Blazers team? Last year the Blazers whole team was injured and they still finished ahead of Oklahoma in the standings. I just don't know if it makes much sense to say that Oklahoma is better conclusively, than a healthy portland team.

Maybe you've forgotten who they have on their team because they had to many injuries last season?

They even did okayish in the playoffs considering Roy was playing on one leg. I think Roy is capable of matching Kobe/Durant one on one over the course of a 7 game series, and then the rest of the role players are pretty even. I guess we'll see. I'm just surprised you give the Blazers no respect at all. 

Or that you're that scared of Oklahoma. I mean Ron Artest pretty much locked Durant up. And now that you have Blake you might have someone who can stay in front of Westbrook better...I don't know if Oklahoma has gotten good enough to get to the WCF yet.


----------



## GrandKenyon6

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*

I can't believe people seriously think this is a bad deal for the Nets.

The chances of Derrick Favors becoming one of the top 10 players in the NBA or a player as good or better than Carmelo Anthony are slim to none.

Devin Harris isn't very good. He doesn't defend, he can't shoot, and he can't make plays. He is a below average starting point guard and is highly replaceable. I couldn't be more thrilled that it's Harris in this deal and not Murphy.

Carmelo Anthony is a superstar. You do whatever it takes to get him. Put the superstar in place and work from there. Yeah, the Nets only look like a 45 win team at best right now, but what people don't understand is that it's not a finished roster. This team still has a ton of flexibility to make other moves.


----------



## Floods

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*



GrandKenyon6 said:


> I can't believe people seriously think this is a bad deal for the Nets.
> 
> The chances of Derrick Favors becoming one of the top 10 players in the NBA or a player as good or better than Carmelo Anthony are slim to none.
> 
> Devin Harris isn't very good. He doesn't defend, he can't shoot, and he can't make plays. He is a below average starting point guard and is highly replaceable. I couldn't be more thrilled that it's Harris in this deal and not Murphy.
> 
> Carmelo Anthony is a superstar. You do whatever it takes to get him. Put the superstar in place and work from there. Yeah, the Nets only look like a 45 win team at best right now, but what people don't understand is that it's not a finished roster. This team still has a ton of flexibility to make other moves.


This.

Getting rid of Harris in the same trade is a big deal, since he and Anthony would have been a disaster together.


----------



## Ben

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*

People have overrated Harris after his 08-09 'breakout' season, and forgot that he can just drive, and not much else. He's not that good. However, getting him for Boris Diaw is good. 

Nets, this should be a no brainer. If Favors comes good, he still wont be anywhere near the level of Anthony. Anthony is a superstar that could singlehandedly drag the team into the playoffs, and wins games by himself. People will want to come and play next to him, and when the team go to Brooklyn, having a franchise face like Anthony will work wonders both as a financial decision and a team decision too. There's a case for Melo as high as a top 5 player, not just top 10. Why wouldn't you want him?


----------



## Floods

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*



Ron said:


> :laugh: No way.
> 
> I would take Oklahoma vs. anyone right about now. Maybe even the Lakers.


Haven't we seen time and time again in this league that it's much harder for a team to go from good to great (which is what OKC would have to do to be a threat in the West), than from bad to good?

Problem in the west being, even when healthy the Blazers really don't stack up with the Lakers. Dallas will be Dallas (50 wins and a non-threat). I'm not sure the Jazz are ready for conference contention, before even considering Al's injury issues. The Nuggets and Suns are obviously finished for the forseeable future. And the Rockets are a wildcard, because of constant injury trouble and Yao apparently getting his minutes severely limited.

Lakers coming out of the West looks like a lock.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*

Please listen to me.

Nuggets can easily get a lot of more than this. This is one of the worst trade in the history for Nuggets.

Experts compared Favors to Al Horford. Favors will not become average PF, will never.

Harris is declining. He is below average point guard. There is a reason Nets lose 70 games last season.

Warriors 2012 pick is top 7 lotto protected and top 7 lotto protected in 2013 and ......

Average, it has 3 stars each year.


----------



## Blue

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*

^Yes. Nuggets should try to get Jeremy Lin in this deal.


----------



## HB

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*



GrandKenyon6 said:


> I can't believe people seriously think this is a bad deal for the Nets.
> 
> The chances of Derrick Favors becoming one of the top 10 players in the NBA or a player as good or better than Carmelo Anthony are slim to none.
> 
> *Devin Harris isn't very good. He doesn't defend, he can't shoot, and he can't make plays. He is a below average starting point guard and is highly replaceable. I couldn't be more thrilled that it's Harris in this deal and not Murphy.*
> 
> Carmelo Anthony is a superstar. You do whatever it takes to get him. Put the superstar in place and work from there. Yeah, the Nets only look like a 45 win team at best right now, but what people don't understand is that it's not a finished roster. This team still has a ton of flexibility to make other moves.


When Devin is at his best, he is a top 10 point guard. Dont sell him short. With that said, he is injury prone and is more of a scorer than a guy who can actually run a team. The Bobcats do get an upgrade though, Felton is NOT better than a healthy Harris...not even close. Harris has had a better career than Diaw, who the **** is Diaw? That guy is the NBA's version of Houdini.

Your last paragraph is also laughable, Carmelo is the Bosh of small fowards. This guy is not improving anyone's win totals alone. He will put up those flashy numbers, but he's not Durant. Not the match up nightmare, and not as impactful. He will regret this move to the Nets if they dont surround him with capable players.

P.s. what flexibility are you talking about? They have to wait till FA in 2012 to even think of bringing another superstar. Do you guys even watch the same league I do?


----------



## jmk

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*



LA68 said:


> *"Oh gee, we could have gotten Melo but, doggone it ! Without DJ Augustin, we just can't pull the trigger".
> 
> With management like this, the east can have all the talent they can pay for and still be second fiddle to the west. *
> 
> The Nets have a chance at Melo, they should do whatever it takes and sign it before someone changes their mind. PG's are a dime a dozen. Melos don't come around much at all !
> 
> btw, Augustin dribbles with his head down. Not exactly an assist machine. With Williams, Melo, Murphy and Lopez, they don't need another shooter anyways. Just do the deal already !


WTF are you even talking about?



Woj said:


> One more potential hindrance to the trade is the Nets want point guard D.J. Augustin from the Bobcats to help offset the loss of Harris, league sources said. So far, Charlotte has shown a reluctance to part with the young point guard in this trade. *Still, sources say this won’t be a deal-breaker for the Nets.*


----------



## Floods

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*



HB said:


> When Devin is at his best, he is a top 10 point guard. Dont sell him short. With that said, he is injury prone and is more of a scorer than a guy who can actually run a team.


Yeah he can't run a team, and he's a scorer who can't shoot. Bad combination.



> Your last paragraph is also laughable, Carmelo is the Bosh of small fowards. This guy is not improving anyone's win totals alone. He will put up those flashy numbers, but he's not Durant. Not the match up nightmare, and not as impactful. He will regret this move to the Nets if they dont surround him with capable players.


Except Carmelo's been to the playoffs every year in a tougher conference, while Bosh is never in.


----------



## HB

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*

No need arguing with you, its almost pointless. 20ppg 7apg point/scorers dont fall from trees. Melo HAS ALWAYS been surrounded by talent. The Nuggets have catered to him from jump.


----------



## Floods

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*



HB said:


> No need arguing with you, its almost impossible.


Fixed. For you.



> 20ppg 7apg point/scorers dont fall from trees.


Guy, the Nets won 12 ****ing games last year. They were horrible. The NBA is a professional league made up of the best players in the world. ANYONE in this league, when given enough (shot) opportunities, can have a gaudy scoring average. On an actual team, he's not a 20 points, 7 assists player. Not even close.

Harris is a one trick pony. He drives, and he's not close to the best in the league at that. He can't shoot at all. What's so special about Rajon Rondo with reduced driving ability and without the ability to set up your teammates?

I have no ****ing idea why you're hiding behind the assists stat when you yourself said he can't run a team. Which is it? (EDIT: well actually, you said he's more of a scorer than a guy who can run a team, but he's such a one-dimensional and fairly inefficient scorer that I guess my point stands)



> Melo HAS ALWAYS been surrounded by talent. The Nuggets have catered to him from jump.


Yeah, Andre Miller, Marcus Camby, and Kenyon Martin was a great supporting cast. He had that for 3 years, then he and Iverson clashed for another two (lemme guess, Melo, not Iverson, was the reason those teams underachieved, right?). Only when Billups came did he finally have a good quality team around him. God, are you actually serious with this crap?


----------



## HB

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*

Did you read the part where I said Harris was injury prone? Guy was rarely in games and when he was, he wasn't healthy. He wasnt close to what he did in that all star year of his.

LOL you realize you just claimed anyone giving shots can become an all star right? No, just stop with the nonsense, not anyone can put up 20ppg 7apg, not anyone can go against the best point guards in the league and show he can go toe to toe with them. Go back to his all star year, go back to the individual matchups with the Pauls and Williams of the league. This guy was the starting point on a 60 win team. By now you should get the point...this guy has some talent man.

As for Miller, Camby, Kenyon Martin...pretty sure they count as talented players. Same would go for Iverson that year he was on the team.

Guy why are you trying to make these dudes sound like scrubs?


----------



## Floods

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*



HB said:


> Did you read the part where I said Harris was injury prone? Guy was rarely in games and when he was, he wasn't healthy. He wasnt close to what he did in that all star year of his.


Who said my words applied only to last season?



> LOL you realize you just claimed anyone giving shots can become an all star right?


Yeah. Well I don't pick the all-stars, the casual fan retards across America pick the starters, and the highly subjective team coach picks his bench.

Yes, almost any player in this league can average at least respectable numbers given the chances that Harris gets (which there rarely are), since Harris had nothing around him. Most of the middle class players right now, such as Mike Conley or Rodney Stuckey, could easily replicate what Harris did on a team where he had all the opportunities in the world to score (and you'd probably think they're beasts) and had maybe one other guy competing with them for shots. Anyone with anything above a single digit I.Q. should know this.



> No, just stop with the nonsense


After you.



> not anyone can put up 20ppg 7apg, not anyone can go against the best point guards in the league and show he can go toe to toe with them.


LOOOOOOOOOL



> Go back to his all star year, go back to the individual matchups with the Pauls and Williams of the league.


Oh god. Really? Educate yourself on sample sizes. Check some of his other games out too.



> This guy was the starting point on a 60 win team. By now you should get the point...this guy has some talent man.


****ing Kendrick Perkins was a starter on a 66 win championship team. Don't see him in any all-star games. What is your point again?



> As for Miller, Camby, Kenyon Martin...pretty sure they count as talented players. Same would go for Iverson that year he was on the team.


Miller's strictly a distributor that Anthony's been doing fine without. The other two are passable starters on fringe playoff teams. That's it.


----------



## HB

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*

Lol never mind, you obviously dont know what you are talking about.

I'll just let you know this though, Kenyon Martin is ONE of the best defensive players the league has seen in the last 10 years. Guys who can defend multiple positions are pretty rare, especially at the level he has.

With the way Miller played last year, pretty sure he is no 'fringe' player.

Dude do you just say **** just for the sake of it?


----------



## Floods

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*



HB said:


> I'll just let you know this though, Kenyon Martin is ONE of the best defensive players the league has seen in the last 10 years. Guys who can defend multiple positions are pretty rare, especially at the level he has.


And I denied this where again? Yeah, a great defender and good/great rebounder with not a whole lot of offensive game. Passable starter, will never be anything more than the 4th/5th best player on a championship contender.



> With the way Miller played last year, pretty sure he is no 'fringe' player.


Learn to read.



> Dude do you just say **** just for the sake of it?


It wouldn't look quite as bizarre if you knew how to read.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*

Situation:
Nuggets do not get the best offer.


the best Nuggets strategy:

Hold on for two months, wait and see what will be the best offer. Interesting! Tt is like putting a fish in Michael Jordan's and Avery Johnson's mouth, then use the hook to hook them up ......


----------



## HB

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*

The point remains, Carmelo Anthony has played with good players ever since he came into the league. Camby had some of his best games as a Nugget. So did Martin and Miller. He wasn't playing with scrubs. 



> Yes, almost any player in this league can average at least respectable numbers given the chances that Harris gets (which there rarely are), since Harris had nothing around him. Most of the middle class players right now, such as Mike Conley or Rodney Stuckey, could easily replicate what Harris did on a team where he had all the opportunities in the world to score (and you'd probably think they're beasts) and had maybe one other guy competing with them for shots. Anyone with anything above a single digit I.Q. should know this.


And no this is absolutely wrong...you'd have to not have watched the NBA that season, especially towards the all star game to not believe Harris' selection was justified. Also lets quit with the ridiculous any one given the chance Harris had will put up numbers...thats false! These guys play in the NBA not some JV league. Talent alone isnt cutting it.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*

from msnbc:

The Cavaliers and Pacers have apparently made hail-mary offers, even though it's extremely doubtful Melo would agree to an extension with either of them. Nets GM Billy King is "growing more impatient" as the start of training camp looms less than 48 hours away.

*Nuggets like Cavs and Pacers future picks better.*


----------



## HB

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*

Well he should be impatient, its going to be tough when all those guys meet in that building. I expect the Nuggets camp to be quite entertaining too.


----------



## Ninerballin

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*

Devin Harris is a much better player than Raymond Felton or Augustin. Neither one of those guys can play defense and got abused by Jameer Nelson, who's not the greatest PG in the league.

Diaw wasn't going to be in Charlotte this entire season regardless. He really is too small to play the 4 defensively, and there's a logjam at the 3 and 2 spots. Plus, Tyrus was just signed to a big contract, so he'll be the starter, and the team is liking 2nd year player Derrick Brown more and more.

I'd welcome this trade as a Bobcats fan.


----------



## Blue

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*

Damn, not a bad backcourt. They got the siza to matchup defensively with Heat.

Devin Harris
Stephen Jackson
Crash
TyThomas
Nazr


----------



## Dre

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*

They should probably definitely make the playoffs.


----------



## Diable

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*

We'll be worse than we were last year. Not much, but still worse. Raymond sucked at the end of last year, but he wasn't any worse than Harris. If we make the playoffs it'll be because there's not 8 good teams in the East, which is probably the case.


----------



## HB

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*

Cept that was probably Raymond close to his best at least during the regular season....Harris was never at his best.


----------



## Blue

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*



Diable said:


> We'll be worse than we were last year. Not much, but still worse. Raymond sucked at the end of last year, but he wasn't any worse than Harris. If we make the playoffs it'll be because there's not 8 good teams in the East, which is probably the case.


Only reason you'd be worse is cause the east is better. Harris makes y'all a better team imo.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*

Basically, Kobe told Melo not to join the Nets today.

Kobe says he is closer to Melo than anybody at Olympics.


----------



## Dissonance

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*

*Kobe advises ‘Melo to carefully weigh decision*




> Bryant’s advice to ‘Melo?
> 
> Don’t leave just to leave.
> 
> “We’ll see if he signs a reasonable extension and if he’s 100 percent happy that it’s where he wants to go,” Bryant told Yahoo! Sports Saturday. “If not, don’t make a move just to get out of the situation. …Make sure it’s a move that you’re very happy in and you’re comfortable with.”
> 
> Bryant said he talked with Anthony “a couple days ago” and understood how a move to the Nets would be appealing because of the team’s talented young center, Brook Lopez(notes), and new Russian billionaire owner Mikhail Prokhorov. The Nets have rebuilt themselves after winning a league-low 12 games last season while the Nuggets lost in the first round of the playoffs one year after falling to Bryant’s Lakers in the Western Conference finals.
> 
> “I’m closer to him than anyone else from my Olympic team,” Bryant said. “My advice is to do what he feels is right for him and his family. It starts there. He has to be happy with the situation that he is in because if your heart isn’t where it should be, it could have a half-ass effect. You don’t want that. You can’t please everybody. You just have to do what’s right for you.”


----------



## 29380

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*



> The Nets have rebuilt themselves after winning a league-low 12 games last season


How?


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*

Quote from this Article:
The Nets have rebuilt themselves after winning a league-low 12 games last season while the Nuggets lost in the first round of the playoffs one year after falling to Bryant’s Lakers in the Western Conference finals.

What does it mean?

My understanding:

Nuggets may win 55 games this coming season, but Nets will win 65 games this coming season.


----------



## jmk

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*



zombieknicks4life said:


> How?


Um, by overturning all but 4 players on the entire roster, getting a new billionaire owner, a new coach, a new GM, a new stadium. That's pretty much the definition of rebuilding.


----------



## LA68

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*



futuristxen said:


> Don't the Lakers usually have trouble with a healthy Blazers team?
> 
> Last year the Blazers whole team was injured and they still finished ahead of Oklahoma in the standings.
> 
> I just don't know if it makes much sense to say that Oklahoma is better conclusively, than a healthy portland team..


1) Its just a fluke in schedule making where the Lakers always play at Portland as the second game of a back to back. Show me when Portland beat the Lakers in a playoff series, when it counts. 

2)Blazers, Thunder and Spurs were in a virtual deadlock near the end of the season. We're talking about a game or two differnce. 

3) When exactly has Portland ever been healthy ? Going back to the days of Walton, Bowie etc... Oden, Prz, Camby, Roy all spend time on the injured list each year. They will never be healthy so we will never know.


----------



## LA68

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*



jmk said:


> Um, by overturning all but 4 players on the entire roster, getting a new billionaire owner, a new coach, a new GM, a new stadium. That's pretty much the definition of rebuilding.


Of course it also means the Nets will have gone twice to the finals, several times to the playoffs, all the way to the basement, and now back to the playoffs for years to come if they get Melo...

While the Knicks still sit at the bottom stuck in neutral in a system guaranteed to fail and never win anything of importance.


----------



## GrandKenyon6

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*

ROFL at Devin Harris being anywhere close to one of the 10 best point guards in the league.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Unconfirmed: Melo OKs 4way trade to Nets?*

Nuggets want Turner and AI.

Nets really need to add one star player from other team in order to get the deal done on Monday.

Melo is not very happy to join the Nets.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UP IN THE AIR: Carmelo Anthony: Nuggets? Nets? Anyone?*

*Denver, Philadelphia talking Carmelo Anthony, Andre Iguodala trade*


----------



## Dre

*Re: REPORTED: Denver, Philadelphia talking Carmelo Anthony, Andre Iguodala trade*

Would he resign there? Why would he


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: REPORTED: Denver, Philadelphia talking Carmelo Anthony, Andre Iguodala trade*

my suggestion:

AI and Evan Turner to Nuggets (Nuggets don't like Favors and Warriors protected picks)

Melo/Nuggets 2 first round picks to Nets

Harris/Lopez/Favors to 76ers


http://ken-berger.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/11838893/24605774?source=rss_blogs_NBA


----------



## Ron

*Re: REPORTED: Denver, Philadelphia talking Carmelo Anthony, Andre Iguodala trade*

*Sixers in talks for Carmelo Anthony, Western exec says*

Get a load of that last sentence, LOL. :lol:



> Indications are that the Nuggets would like a deal done before they begin training camp tomorrow.


Good ****ing luck with that! :laugh:


----------



## JNice

*Re: REPORTED: Denver, Philadelphia talking Carmelo Anthony, Andre Iguodala trade*

Why would Sixers do this? Basically a salary dump? Seems unlikely Melo would resign there.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: REPORTED: Denver, Philadelphia talking Carmelo Anthony, Andre Iguodala trade*

Nuggets current owner Stan is really not happy about the orginal 4 team trade proposal. Nuggets need a lot of more than that.

A star player

A young talent

and picks

Nets did not give Nuggets a star player like AI.

Nuggets want the deal to be completed on early Monday morning. They are waiting for the Nets to find a star player.


----------



## Dre

*Re: REPORT: Denver, Philadelphia talking Carmelo Anthony, Andre Iguodala trade*

The Nuggets need to calm down and not let it turn into an auction. They have a whole year to trade him. This is the most important move they'll make since drafting the guy.


----------



## Juggernaut

*Re: REPORT: Denver, Philadelphia talking Carmelo Anthony, Andre Iguodala trade*

I would hate them trading AI and Turner to get Melo. 

If Philly can trade them Kapano, Green, Thad Young, a 1st round pick, Evan Turner for Melo, then that would be the best trade for both sides imho.

Denver gets cap space, 2 young players, and a draft pick to build around.

Philly gets the amazing combo of Melo-AI, which will help develop Holiday. Sucks Dalembert was traded, him and Brand could have had a much better season with these guys.


----------



## thaKEAF

*Re: REPORT: Denver, Philadelphia talking Carmelo Anthony, Andre Iguodala trade*



Dre™ said:


> The Nuggets need to calm down and not let it turn into an auction. They have a whole year to trade him. This is the most important move they'll make since drafting the guy.


I agree. I would hold my ground at least until the deadline because right now this is getting kinda crazy.


----------



## Juggernaut

*Re: REPORT: Denver, Philadelphia talking Carmelo Anthony, Andre Iguodala trade*

Can you trade injured players? What happens if Melo gets injured or refuses to sign an extension at that point? He wouldn't be traded, or the return value would plummet. Melo can essentially say trade me now or I'll axe any trade you get for me, reducing his value to nothing and forcing them to trade him for relatively peanuts.


----------



## Dre

*Re: REPORT: Denver, Philadelphia talking Carmelo Anthony, Andre Iguodala trade*

I think you can have the physical waived...I wanna say when the Raptors traded Vince he was inactive at the time, but maybe I'm tripping.


----------



## Juggernaut

*Re: REPORT: Denver, Philadelphia talking Carmelo Anthony, Andre Iguodala trade*

That might be the case, I dont really know. 

The second point is valid though. Melo could tell them trade me now, or don't trade me and lose me. He can wait the year and leave, since they won't be able to trade him if he has no value.


----------



## HB

*Re: REPORT: Denver, Philadelphia talking Carmelo Anthony, Andre Iguodala trade*

Why would Melo agree to this deal?


----------



## Wade County

*Re: REPORT: Denver, Philadelphia talking Carmelo Anthony, Andre Iguodala trade*

^ This. Seriously, why would you go East - let alone go to teams which are gonna struggle for the next few years in Philly and NJ?

Surely he'd rather stay in Denver, no?


----------



## Diable

*Re: REPORT: Denver, Philadelphia talking Carmelo Anthony, Andre Iguodala trade*

I have to assume that any deal would be contingent upon Melo signing an extension. So basically Melo decides where he will go and where he will not go. Noone is giving up anything of actual value unless Melo says he's staying and if that's the case then the Nugz may as well let him expire. Of course Melo wants an extension of his current contract under the current CBA...So it's not like he's completely in control of where he goes.


----------



## Sliccat

*Re: REPORT: Denver, Philadelphia talking Carmelo Anthony, Andre Iguodala trade*

Ugh, this would be terrible. I wouldn't even trade Iggy for Melo straight up, let alone include Turner. One of the more underrated players in the league against one of the most overrated. 

Don't get me wrong, Carmelo is the better of the two, but Iguodala has the better contract and is a better piece for a team with talent. Carmelo has as much talent as anybody in the league, but in every aspect of the game except scoring, Iguodala is his equal at worst. He's not playing his role right now, but he's the most complete package at small forward in the league except for James.


----------



## Sliccat

*Re: REPORT: Denver, Philadelphia talking Carmelo Anthony, Andre Iguodala trade*



Wade County said:


> ^ This. Seriously, why would you go East - let alone go to teams which are gonna struggle for the next few years in Philly and NJ?
> 
> Surely he'd rather stay in Denver, no?


Maybe if Denver wasn't old, capped out and futureless.


----------



## thaKEAF

*Re: REPORT: Denver, Philadelphia talking Carmelo Anthony, Andre Iguodala trade*

Look at it this way. If they traded Turner/Iguodala they'd go back to having one man show teams with Melo instead of Iverson. Ticket sales FTW?


----------



## Dre

*Re: REPORT: Denver, Philadelphia talking Carmelo Anthony, Andre Iguodala trade*

So you think the Nuggets would've been better these past few years with Igoudala Slicc? I'm not saying anything either way I'm just asking.

And there's no way Turner is involved because Melo wouldn't resign to the Sixers without AI or Turner. He probably wouldn't even resign with either or there.


----------



## Sliccat

*Re: REPORT: Denver, Philadelphia talking Carmelo Anthony, Andre Iguodala trade*



> So you think the Nuggets would've been better these past few years with Igoudala Slicc?





> Don't get me wrong, Carmelo is the better of the two



So no. Also, Philly couldn't sell tickets with AI because Philly got tired of it.


----------



## Spaceman Spiff

*Re: REPORT: Denver, Philadelphia talking Carmelo Anthony, Andre Iguodala trade*

No way Melo signs an extension with Philly.


----------



## Krimzon

*Re: REPORT: Denver, Philadelphia talking Carmelo Anthony, Andre Iguodala trade*

I hope this is just a crazy rumor. This is horrible trade for Philly. Melo isn't going to stay in Philly. Why trade Iguodala just to have Melo for a year? It's not like they have the pieces to win a championship once they have Melo.


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*Re: REPORT: Denver, Philadelphia talking Carmelo Anthony, Andre Iguodala trade*



Sliccat said:


> Ugh, this would be terrible. I wouldn't even trade Iggy for Melo straight up, let alone include Turner. One of the more underrated players in the league against one of the most overrated.


Right. Giving up Iggy for Carmelo is a lateral move at best. Giving up Turner too is losing the trade. Carmelo is overrated.


----------



## futuristxen

*Re: REPORT: Denver, Philadelphia talking Carmelo Anthony, Andre Iguodala trade*



Sir Patchwork said:


> Right. Giving up Iggy for Carmelo is a lateral move at best. Giving up Turner too is losing the trade. Carmelo is overrated.


We don't know how good Turner is. But we know Melo is a lot better than Iggy. They'd be better than they were last year with Melo that's for sure.

But I doubt he would resign there. Though it looks like Philly just wants to clear cap. I wonder if they're finding a way to dump Brand in the deal as well?


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: REPORT: Denver, Philadelphia talking Carmelo Anthony, Andre Iguodala trade*

Come on, men.

Melo is top 7. Iggy is not a top 25 player. 

Melo + 2 first rounders = Iggy + Turner


----------



## Blue

*Re: REPORT: Denver, Philadelphia talking Carmelo Anthony, Andre Iguodala trade*



Sir Patchwork said:


> Right. Giving up Iggy for Carmelo is a lateral move at best. Giving up Turner too is losing the trade. Carmelo is overrated.


How is Iggy for Carmelo lateral? Melo's closer to Durant than he is Iggy. A clear net gain... You're overrated. Only problem here for Philly is that Melo still wont make them a contender and Philly will have to risk losing an impact player for nothing, or shell out alot more coin to keep Melo than they do Iggy. Since the move likely doesn't make them a contender anyway, is it worth it for Philly to invest in such risk?


----------



## Tragedy

*Re: REPORT: Denver, Philadelphia talking Carmelo Anthony, Andre Iguodala trade*



Blu said:


> How is Iggy for Carmelo lateral? Melo's closer to Durant than he is Iggy. A clear net gain... You're overrated. Only problem here for Philly is that Melo still wont make them a contender and Philly will have to risk losing an impact player for nothing, or shell out alot more coin to keep Melo than they do Iggy. Since the move likely doesn't make them a contender anyway, is it worth it for Philly to invest in such risk?


That was sarcasm. Patchwork is one of the more reasonable and knowledgable posters on this board. 

He's mocking the philly fan who said he wouldn't trade Iggy for Melo.

To that I say, if you turn down a high top 10 player to keep a top 20, top 25 player you're a damned idiot and don't value your job.

Now, I wouldn't trade Iggy AND Turner because just gaining one player and losing the potential is not enough.

You want to gain Carmelo and make your team much better, not marginally better or no improvement at all.


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*Re: REPORT: Denver, Philadelphia talking Carmelo Anthony, Andre Iguodala trade*

I'm not being sarcastic. Sliccat is right. Carmelo is one of the more overrated players in the league. Yes, he is better than Iguodala, but not by as much as people think. The combination of Iguodala and Turner is more promising than having Carmelo, therefore that particular would trade would be a loss for Philadelphia.


----------



## Ron

*Re: REPORT: Denver, Philadelphia talking Carmelo Anthony, Andre Iguodala trade*

This deal is dead.

Carmelo's people say that he won't sign an extension in Philly.

Guess it ain't going to get done before tomorrow, Nugs! :laugh:


----------



## Diable

*Re: UPDATE: Den., Philly talk 'Melo for Iggy trade; 'Melo says won't sign ext. in Phi*

I sure as hell wouldn't trade Iggy under contract for Melo with one foot out the door. It's really hard to see the logic behind trading Iggy and Turner for Melo to start with. Even if you extended Melo that doesn't make you a very good team. Only real reason to do it is if you think Melo would sell tickets


----------



## Juggernaut

*Re: REPORT: Denver, Philadelphia talking Carmelo Anthony, Andre Iguodala trade*



Ron said:


> This deal is dead.
> 
> *Carmelo's people say that he won't sign an extension in Philly.
> *
> 
> Guess it ain't going to get done before tomorrow, Nugs! :laugh:


And that's why he'll be traded before the season starts. Since his people want that to happen. If he says he won't resign with any team at all, his trade value goes down to nothing.


----------



## Coatesvillain

*Re: UPDATE: Den., Philly talk 'Melo for Iggy trade; 'Melo says won't sign ext. in Phi*

I would only want to get on a Melo deal if the Sixers were the third team and getting whatever pieces fell out.

I don't want to give up Iguodala anyway.


----------



## Dre

*Re: UPDATE: Den., Philly talk 'Melo for Iggy trade; 'Melo says won't sign ext. in Phi*

At the end of the day Carmelo isn't a first tier player so you have to be careful what you trade for him.


----------



## 29380

*Re: UPDATE: Den., Philly talk 'Melo for Iggy trade; 'Melo says won't sign ext. in Phi*

*Sources: “Little Chance” Melo Going Back to Nuggets*


> Two people with knowledge of the situation told me that “there’s little chance” that Carmelo will be back in Denver and that a trade will most likely happen early in the week.
> 
> Where that deal is- is anyone’s guess, but by all accounts the Knicks will have to give up quite a lot in order to bring the ex-Syracuse star to his widely-reported top destination.
> 
> Stay tuned.



*Source: Better Than 50% Chance Melo Traded In Next 48 Hours*



> A source connected to the ongoing trade discussions involving Carmelo Anthony said that there is "better than a 50 percent chance" that a trade will be completed within the next 24-48 hours.
> 
> William Wesley met with Jay-Z last week in New York to help set the stage for Anthony's arrival with the Nets, said a person with direct knowledge of the meeting.
> 
> While the Nuggets want to talk to Anthony directly, sources familiar with his position think that the team's attempt to change his mind about leaving Denver will be futile.
> 
> Any positive comments Anthony may make to the media on Monday are likely to be spin rather than actually indicating an open mind about remaining in Denver.
> 
> Meanwhile, the Nuggets are not sure they want to accept Derrick Favors as the centerpiece in a trade of their superstar.
> 
> 
> 
> Read more: http://basketball.realgm.com/src_wi...e_melo_traded_in_next_48_hours/#ixzz10i1H5KXT


----------



## MemphisX

*Re: UPDATE: Den., Philly talk 'Melo for Iggy trade; 'Melo says won't sign ext. in Phi*

Lol...Iggy and Melo are not even close. People who think so must have missed the last 5 years of the NBA. Oh and I would worry about resigning him later. What is the worse that can happen? You lose Turner/Iggy for nothing? Oh dear, how will Philly ever get back to the lottery...lmao. Iggy is a fancy version of Shane Battier minus the shooting and IQ to know that he isn't some budding All Star. In fact, Iggy is a bad contract getting worse.


----------



## futuristxen

*Re: UPDATE: Den., Philly talk 'Melo for Iggy trade; 'Melo says won't sign ext. in Phi*

I still think somehow next week Melo is with Amare with the Knicks.


----------



## futuristxen

*Re: UPDATE: Den., Philly talk 'Melo for Iggy trade; 'Melo says won't sign ext. in Phi*

Err I meant next year.


----------



## Coatesvillain

*Re: UPDATE: Den., Philly talk 'Melo for Iggy trade; 'Melo says won't sign ext. in Phi*



MemphisX said:


> Lol...Iggy and Melo are not even close. People who think so must have missed the last 5 years of the NBA. Oh and I would worry about resigning him later. What is the worse that can happen? You lose Turner/Iggy for nothing? Oh dear, how will Philly ever get back to the lottery...lmao. Iggy is a fancy version of Shane Battier minus the shooting and IQ to know that he isn't some budding All Star. In fact, Iggy is a bad contract getting worse.


You're left with a team that has a history of misusing cap space with a fan base that doesn't go to games in a city no one wants to play in. Yeah, that sounds like a great situation.


----------



## Hyperion

*Re: UPDATE: Den., Philly talk 'Melo for Iggy trade; 'Melo says won't sign ext. in Phi*



Dre™ said:


> At the end of the day Carmelo isn't a first tier player so you have to be careful what you trade for him.


Wait what? He's the only thing keeping the Thuggets from the lottery. They are a bunch of head cases that have been over rated to the extreme. Mr Big Shot who shoots 40% from the field is a great sidekick? Melo is the second best SF in the NBA, at worst third. It's not even a question.


----------



## MemphisX

*Re: UPDATE: Den., Philly talk 'Melo for Iggy trade; 'Melo says won't sign ext. in Phi*



Coatesvillain said:


> You're left with a team that has a history of misusing cap space with a fan base that doesn't go to games in a city no one wants to play in. Yeah, that sounds like a great situation.


Fans will never fault management for trading for a superstar. Plus, when did Philadelphia become a city players didn't want to play. Are the 76ers playing 3rd fiddle to the Phillies and Eagles? Yeas but I never heard of players trying to avoid playing there.


----------



## Floods

*Re: UPDATE: Den., Philly talk 'Melo for Iggy trade; 'Melo says won't sign ext. in Phi*

I think the Flyers are higher in the pecking order than the Sixers.


----------



## Coatesvillain

*Re: UPDATE: Den., Philly talk 'Melo for Iggy trade; 'Melo says won't sign ext. in Phi*



MemphisX said:


> Fans will never fault management for trading for a superstar. Plus, when did Philadelphia become a city players didn't want to play. Are the 76ers playing 3rd fiddle to the Phillies and Eagles? Yeas but I never heard of players trying to avoid playing there.


Fourth fiddle behind the Flyers. ****, have enough bad years and they could drop behind the Union.

I over stated it by saying no one wants to play here. The franchise is so bad that the city itself couldn't over come it. It's a losing culture and the only way they'd get someone to come (as evidenced in the past) is by overpaying them.

A one year rental for ticket sales isn't worth the terrible years that would follow. Now if he was willing to sign an extension it'd be a different deal but it's already known that won't happen.


----------



## Hyperion

*Re: UPDATE: Den., Philly talk 'Melo for Iggy trade; 'Melo says won't sign ext. in Phi*



Coatesvillain said:


> Fourth fiddle behind the Flyers. ****, have enough bad years and they could drop behind the Union.
> 
> I over stated it by saying no one wants to play here. The franchise is so bad that the city itself couldn't over come it. It's a losing culture and the only way they'd get someone to come (as evidenced in the past) is by overpaying them.
> 
> A one year rental for ticket sales isn't worth the terrible years that would follow. Now if he was willing to sign an extension it'd be a different deal but it's already known that won't happen.


But aren't you prepared for terrible years to follow regardless of trading for Melo?


----------



## Coatesvillain

*Re: UPDATE: Den., Philly talk 'Melo for Iggy trade; 'Melo says won't sign ext. in Phi*



Hyperion said:


> But aren't you prepared for terrible years to follow regardless of trading for Melo?


If they don't they won't be. They won't compete (there's a glass ceiling) but there's no reason they shouldn't be a playoff team in the future.

The Sixers were a playoff team before Eddie Jordan. He was the reason they had 27 wins. They have enough talent now to be mid-pack in the East with improvements coming as the players get better.


----------



## Dre

*Re: UPDATE: Den., Philly talk 'Melo for Iggy trade; 'Melo says won't sign ext. in Phi*



Hyperion said:


> Wait what? He's the only thing keeping the Thuggets from the lottery. They are a bunch of head cases that have been over rated to the extreme. Mr Big Shot who shoots 40% from the field is a great sidekick? Melo is the second best SF in the NBA, at worst third. It's not even a question.


Still not Kobe, LeBron, Wade, or Dwight. Who's the second best Center in the league behind Dwight Howard...does that make that person a first tier player?


----------



## Hyperion

*Re: UPDATE: Den., Philly talk 'Melo for Iggy trade; 'Melo says won't sign ext. in Phi*



Dre™ said:


> Still not Kobe, LeBron, Wade, or Dwight. Who's the second best Center in the league behind Dwight Howard...does that make that person a first tier player?


Still a Top 3 scorer in the league and an elite player in the NBA. I would put him on par with them and I am pretty sure the rest of the basketball world does too.


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: UPDATE: Den., Philly talk 'Melo for Iggy trade; 'Melo says won't sign ext. in Phi*

The guy is not going to Philly. All this Sixer talk is pointless.

The only reason that Melo would consider going to Philly is so that he can sign in New York after next season. There is no way in hell that he would sign a long term deal with the Sixers if he has a problem signing with the Nets.


----------



## futuristxen

*Re: UPDATE: Den., Philly talk 'Melo for Iggy trade; 'Melo says won't sign ext. in Phi*

I don't understand Melo signing an extension in a situation worse than the one he currently is in Denver. Why not just stay in Denver? I thought it was about playing on a winner or with other superstars?


----------



## HB

*Re: UPDATE: Den., Philly talk 'Melo for Iggy trade; 'Melo says won't sign ext. in Phi*

Melo is going to the Nets. That's where Wes wants him and his wife will get to be around NY. He will sign that extension with them. Philly was never in this. Lol though I think Stefanski and Thorn are trying to infuriate their former employers.


----------



## futuristxen

*Re: UPDATE: Den., Philly talk 'Melo for Iggy trade; 'Melo says won't sign ext. in Phi*

Didn't Wes want Lebron to go to Chicago too?


----------



## 29380

*Re: UPDATE: Den., Philly talk 'Melo for Iggy trade; 'Melo says won't sign ext. in Phi*

Melo getting ready for Media Day in Denver:


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*Re: UPDATE: Den., Philly talk 'Melo for Iggy trade; 'Melo says won't sign ext. in Phi*



Dre™ said:


> Still not Kobe, LeBron, Wade, or Dwight. Who's the second best Center in the league behind Dwight Howard...does that make that person a first tier player?


He isn't even the 2nd best small forward either. He is a top 10 player at best and more realistically top 15. He is an isolation player with an underwhelming all-around game. He better hope he gets on with a coach that gives him a ton of freedom like George Karl did, or he is going to pout his way out of the top 15.


----------



## Diable

*Re: UPDATE: Den., Philly talk 'Melo for Iggy trade; 'Melo says won't sign ext. in Phi*

RIght now Melo is about the tenth best player in the league. I couldn't even imagine taking him over Deron and most people have Deron around 8th. Fact is I'd probably value Andrew Bogut over him for most teams. I don't really see him being so much better than Bogut that I have to worry about what any of you think when I say that either. 

He's also as good as he's going to be and likely to start declining in a short time. Essentially he does one thing very well, that just happens to be the thing that gets you overrated the most.


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: UPDATE: Den., Philly talk 'Melo for Iggy trade; 'Melo says won't sign ext. in Phi*

What teams will have cap space in 2011? I want to know what options Melo truly has if these two sides can't agree on a trade scenario.


----------



## Diable

*Re: UPDATE: Den., Philly talk 'Melo for Iggy trade; 'Melo says won't sign ext. in Phi*

Melo wants his contract extended under the current CBA. He doesn't want to just let his deal expire and then realize he has to take a 20 or 30% paycut.


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: UPDATE: Den., Philly talk 'Melo for Iggy trade; 'Melo says won't sign ext. in Phi*

Yeah but if the Nuggets get fed up with Melo demanding trades to teams that don't have anything to offer, then the Nuggets could always not extend the deal. So I still want to know the 2011 teams w/ cap space.


----------



## Dornado

*Re: UPDATE: Den., Philly talk 'Melo for Iggy trade; 'Melo says won't sign ext. in Phi*



kbdullah said:


> Yeah but if the Nuggets get fed up with Melo demanding trades to teams that don't have anything to offer, then the Nuggets could always not extend the deal. So I still want to know the 2011 teams w/ cap space.


Not sure who else has cap space, but I know the Bucks have Michael Redd coming off the books... so either them, or some team that's willing to make a move for his expiring deal.


----------



## Wilt_The_Stilt

*Re: UPDATE: Den., Philly talk 'Melo for Iggy trade; 'Melo says won't sign ext. in Phi*

New York still makes the most sense for both sides. The Knicks could take back a contract like Birdman's and still send back young talent like Randolph, Gallo, and Chandler. And the Knicks would still have enough talent left over to be better than the Nets.


----------



## 29380

*Re: UPDATE: Den., Philly talk 'Melo for Iggy trade; 'Melo says won't sign ext. in Phi*



> melo on the hotseat now: "i'm leaving my options open. at the end of the season, i'll sit down with my team, i'll sit down with the nuggets"





> more melo: "i've never said i wanted to be traded. i never once said anything about trade talk"





> add melo: "i've been a nugget for 7 years. this is where i started my career. tomorrow the ball goes up and we get started."


http://twitter.com/nuggetsnews


----------



## Spaceman Spiff

*Re: UPDATE: Den., Philly talk 'Melo for Iggy trade; 'Melo says won't sign ext. in Phi*

Word is NY wants their picks back from the Rockets so they can move forward with a Melo deal. Hope the Knicks front office have plenty Vaseline to put in their booty holes.... gonna be some raping going on if they really want to go that direction


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: UPDATE: Den., Philly talk 'Melo for Iggy trade; 'Melo says won't sign ext. in Phi*

How the hell do they propose to get their picks back from Houston? And why would Denver want them as any 'Melo/Amar'e lineup is likely to produce 50 wins?


----------



## OneBadLT123

*Re: UPDATE: Den., Philly talk 'Melo for Iggy trade; 'Melo says won't sign ext. in Phi*

^thats what the reports are indicating. Denver would not make any deal with NYC unless it got some draft picks, of which all belong to Houston. 

And reports now are that the Knicks want to get those picks back in order to obtain Melo.


----------



## futuristxen

*Re: UPDATE: Den., Philly talk 'Melo for Iggy trade; 'Melo says won't sign ext. in Phi*

Oh man the hilarity of the knicks trading for their picks back would be hilarious. Though I don't know why Houston would do it, unless they consider Amare being their enough of a devaluation of those picks, and someone like Randolph to be better than what they could get with a mid first rounder...


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: UPDATE: Den., Philly talk 'Melo for Iggy trade; 'Melo says won't sign ext. in Phi*

Maybe they can get Amar'e for the picks & Jordan Hill? :bsmile:


----------



## 29380

*Re: UPDATE: Den., Philly talk 'Melo for Iggy trade; 'Melo says won't sign ext. in Phi*

:hano:


----------



## thaKEAF

*Re: UPDATE: Den., Philly talk 'Melo for Iggy trade; 'Melo says won't sign ext. in Phi*

^ :2ti:


----------



## Tragedy

*Re: UPDATE: Den., Philly talk 'Melo for Iggy trade; 'Melo says won't sign ext. in Phi*

I can understand not wanting to give up iggy and turner. But let's be real. First tier or not, top 10 or top 15, you put Melo in the place of Iguodala and you've upgraded the position. PERIOD.


----------



## 29380

*Re: UPDATE: Den., Philly talk 'Melo for Iggy trade; 'Melo says won't sign ext. in Phi*

*O'Connor: Time For Melo Blockbuster Has Passed*


> Utah Jazz general manager Kevin O'Connor indicated that the time has passed to complete the four-team blockbuster trade discussed last week, which would have landed Carmelo Anthony in New Jersey.
> 
> "If you're going to make that trade, it would've been done Friday," O'Connor told the media Monday.
> 
> O'Connor said other teams, not the Jazz, were driving the trade talks which he said "got ahead of themselves."


----------



## Coatesvillain

*Re: UPDATE: Den., Philly talk 'Melo for Iggy trade; 'Melo says won't sign ext. in Phi*



Tragedy said:


> I can understand not wanting to give up iggy and turner. But let's be real. First tier or not, top 10 or top 15, you put Melo in the place of Iguodala and you've upgraded the position. PERIOD.


For one season and then he's gone.


----------



## Tragedy

*Re: UPDATE: Den., Philly talk 'Melo for Iggy trade; 'Melo says won't sign ext. in Phi*

Yeah. Don't do the trade for that reason, not because you think Iggy is the better player. Because he's not.


----------



## Salomon

*Re: UPDATE: Den., Philly talk 'Melo for Iggy trade; 'Melo says won't sign ext. in Phi*

Nobody said he was.


----------



## Dre

*Re: UPDATE: Den., Philly talk 'Melo for Iggy trade; 'Melo says won't sign ext. in Phi*

Like I predicted the Nuggets didn't find an offer they liked and into the season they go. It's going to be hard to make a trade inseason too if the Nuggets are on their 50 win pace..what do you tell your fan base after you trade him in the middle of a 4 game winning streak or some ****. 

They better hope they regress, which is a real possibiliy, so they'll have an excuse to try it again at the all-star break. I'm willing to bet the pressure will mount on the Knicks or Nets as they realize if he goes into Free Agency they only have a 50% chance of getting him..they both just went through this with LeBron, someone in one of those front offices will bite the bullet and give the Nuggets exactly what they want.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: UPDATE: Den., Philly talk 'Melo for Iggy trade; 'Melo says won't sign ext. in Phi*

It is on the Nets hand. Nuggets are still waiting for the Nets to get a star player like Iggy.

Plain and simple. If Nets want Melo, they need to trade a player to 76ers for Iggy, then send him to Nuggets.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: UPDATE: Den., Philly talk 'Melo for Iggy trade; 'Melo says won't sign ext. in Phi*

The only thing standing in the way of Carmelo Anthony(notes) becoming a member of the New Jersey Nets is the Billy King. He does not want to help Nuggets to get both Turner and Iggy.


----------



## HB

*Re: UPDATE: Den., Philly talk 'Melo for Iggy trade; 'Melo says won't sign ext. in Phi*



Tragedy said:


> I can understand not wanting to give up iggy and turner. But let's be real. First tier or not, top 10 or top 15, you put Melo in the place of Iguodala and you've upgraded the position. PERIOD.


Not that simple. Especially on a team where Iggy has to play facilitator/distributor at times. Melo is a scorer period...no other tricks to his trade.


----------



## 29380

*Re: UPDATE: Den., Philly talk 'Melo for Iggy trade; 'Melo says won't sign ext. in Phi*

*Nuggets Think Knicks May Have Tampered With Melo*



> Landing with the Knicks may be Carmelo Anthony's first choice but the Nuggets view trading with New York as their least-preferred outcome.
> 
> According to ESPN, Denver believes the Knicks may have gone through back channels to recruit Anthony over the summer and are determined to avoid sending him to New York unless they have no other choice.


----------



## futuristxen

*Re: UPDATE: Den., Philly talk 'Melo for Iggy trade; 'Melo says won't sign ext. in Phi*

If Melo tells them the only two teams he would sign an extension with are the Bulls and the Knicks--I think the Nuggets will take whatever **** the Knicks/Bulls shovel their way, and like it. Otherwise they get nothing. 

The Cavs and Raptors ended up getting what...a few late first round/second round picks? 

I think the Nuggets are hilarious to demand what they are demanding, because Melo isn't going to re-sign with a gutted team, so no team is going to gut itself for a year of Melo.

How much would you give the Nuggets to rent Melo for a year? Certainly not a lottery pick and a stud young player.

I think the Cavs should trade for him and make a run at a good seed in the playoffs. Give the Nuggets Jamison, Varejao, and the Miami Heat first rounder. To rent Melo for a year.


----------



## 29380

*Re: UPDATE: Den., Philly talk 'Melo for Iggy trade; 'Melo says won't sign ext. in Phi*



> source confirmed to me what yahoo had --2day every Nugget but Melo was part of filming of promotional shots for the TV games


http://twitter.com/nuggetsnews


----------



## hroz

*Re: UPDATE: Den., Philly talk 'Melo for Iggy trade; 'Melo says won't sign ext. in Phi*

Kings
Get Billups
Lose 2011,2012 1st Rd DPs

Nuggets
Get Favors Harris Kings 2011 & 2012 1st Rd. Nets 2011 1st Rd pick + 2012 1st Rd DP
Lose Anthony Billups Lawson

Nets
Get Anthony Lawson
Lose Favors Harris Nets 2011 1st Rd pick + 2012 1st Rd.

That works. It gives the Nuggets 3 first Rds for the next 2 years. Plus great young talent in Favors and Harris. Nets get Carmelo and Lawson as their point with Farmar and the chance to look at CP3 when he becomes available. And finally the Kings look like contenders if as everyone expects Cousins becomes a stud. 
Cousins/Dalembert
Landry/Thompson
Greene/Casspi
Evans/Garcia
Billups/Udrih

Thats depth and talent. With the pickup of Cousins the more and more I think about it, it sounds like Evans is going to be the player we talk about in the next decade. He has such a young well rounded side. Just the point guard is missing.


----------



## Floods

*Re: UPDATE: Den., Philly talk 'Melo for Iggy trade; 'Melo says won't sign ext. in Phi*



hroz said:


> Kings
> Get Billups
> Lose 2011,2012 1st Rd DPs


LOOOOOOL


----------



## Ben

*Re: UPDATE: Den., Philly talk 'Melo for Iggy trade; 'Melo says won't sign ext. in Phi*

Nuggets get Favors, Harris and a load of picks that won't be anything good because Kings with Billups will be very good, and Nets will lift into at least the playoffs, for Melo, Billups AND Lawson..wtf


----------



## EGarrett

*Re: UPDATE: Den., Philly talk 'Melo for Iggy trade; 'Melo says won't sign ext. in Phi*

As a Nets fan, I wouldn't want Melo if we had to give up Harris or Brook Lopez. At least if we give up Favors we can start Troy Murphy at the 4.

No point in creating a hole at PG or C. I'd rather just keep the team we have now.


----------



## jericho

*Re: UPDATE: Den., Philly talk 'Melo for Iggy trade; 'Melo says won't sign ext. in Phi*

This makes some sense. I'm no fan of Harris' game, but he's probably better than the alternative - which is no legit starting PG.

Murphy doesn't play much defense, but he's a very good rebounder and can really help space the floor. I can understand Favors being preferred at the 4 spot due to his superior athleticism and upside, but Murphy actually could be a nice fit between Melo and Lopez.


----------



## JonMatrix

*Re: UPDATE: Den., Philly talk 'Melo for Iggy trade; 'Melo says won't sign ext. in Phi*

I heard rumors about the Warriors wanting him? I doubt he'd resign there, but does anybody know specifics? I had saw them listed in the names of teams that Denver was talking to, and ESPN put it on their headlines their other day, but they didn't say much.
It's probably just their (the Warriors) new ownership looking to generate interest in the team. Haha too bad Nelson "resigned"...Melo playing Nellieball for 48 minutes a night, every night, would've been one hell of a statline. It's probably just Denver's last option in case Melo/Wes piss them off too much. Oakland has been NBA purgatory for the last 15 years with the exception of 06-07 and 07-08.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: UPDATE: Den., Philly talk 'Melo for Iggy trade; 'Melo says won't sign ext. in Phi*

Situation: Nuggets don't want any players from Knicks.

3 trade proposals that will help Knicks to get Melo right away:

1. Randolph, 2014 and 2016 picks to Pacers for 2011, 2013 picks and a 2nd rounder

2. Gallo, Curry, 2018 and 2020 picks to Warriors for Monte Ellis

3. Ellis and Pacers 2 first rounders for Melo.


----------



## Wilt_The_Stilt

*Re: UPDATE: Den., Philly talk 'Melo for Iggy trade; 'Melo says won't sign ext. in Phi*

I wonder if Orlando would want to get involved. They could send out Vince and get back Murphy and JR Smith.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Oh, Where, Oh, Where, Will 'Melo Go? Where Oh Where Will He Be?*

I wonder if Denver will get pissed at 'Melo submarining their deals and work a three way to exile 'Melo to Golden State for a year. Say 'Melo to Golden State, Monta Ellis to Cleveland, and Gadzooks plus Cleveland & Golden State picks to Denver?


----------



## MemphisX

*Re: UPDATE: Den., Philly talk 'Melo for Iggy trade; 'Melo says won't sign ext. in Phi*



EGarrett said:


> As a Nets fan, I wouldn't want Melo if we had to give up Harris or Brook Lopez. At least if we give up Favors we can start Troy Murphy at the 4.
> 
> No point in creating a hole at PG or C. I'd rather just keep the team we have now.




LMAO...Brook Lopez and Harris.

Nets roster is crap and there only hope is that Favors becomes a replica of Dwight Howard.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Oh, Where, Oh, Where, Will 'Melo Go? Where Oh Where Will He Be?*

If we were talking about a run of the mill 30 win mediocre team OK, but the Nets had to go on a mini run to avoid being the *worst team ever* last year...and actual Nets fans are acting like they have untradeable players?

And you wouldn't trade Lopez or Harris for Carmelo? I'd probably trade both of them for him...like..seriously?

What is in that New Jersey air that has just about an entire fanbase delusional?


----------



## Wade County

*Re: Oh, Where, Oh, Where, Will 'Melo Go? Where Oh Where Will He Be?*

Preach Dre, preach :yep:


----------



## HB

*Re: Oh, Where, Oh, Where, Will 'Melo Go? Where Oh Where Will He Be?*

There's nothing to preach about that post...that's horrible. Carmelo is NOT Lebron, neither is he Wade, you dont trade two top ten players at their position for him and think you are going to somehow plug those holes with anyone and do fine.

Melo and Bosh have got to be two of the most overrated players on the face of the planet. Trade Harris and Lopez for Dwight, you wont see me complaining. Same goes for Durant, Paul, maybe even Deron, but Carmelo...heck naw!


----------



## Dre

*Re: Oh, Where, Oh, Where, Will 'Melo Go? Where Oh Where Will He Be?*

Exhibit..I don't know which letter...贼德?


----------



## Juggernaut

*Re: Oh, Where, Oh, Where, Will 'Melo Go? Where Oh Where Will He Be?*



Dre™ said:


> If we were talking about a run of the mill 30 win mediocre team OK, but the Nets had to go on a mini run to avoid being the *worst team ever* last year...and actual Nets fans are acting like they have untradeable players?
> 
> And you wouldn't trade Lopez or Harris for Carmelo? I'd probably trade both of them for him...like..seriously?
> 
> What is in that New Jersey air that has just about an entire fanbase delusional?


Lopez is untradeable. He's young and still developing. Give him a decent running mate and he'll be the #2 center behind Dwight.


----------



## Coatesvillain

*Re: Oh, Where, Oh, Where, Will 'Melo Go? Where Oh Where Will He Be?*

I told him that Devin Harris isn't a difference maker. If you added Carmelo you could replace Harris with a more functional PG.


----------



## HB

*Re: Oh, Where, Oh, Where, Will 'Melo Go? Where Oh Where Will He Be?*

How long did it take the Sixers to find a point guard? Y'all act like getting decent points is so easy. The Timberwolves years later are still looking for a starting point guard...it took the Hawks years to finally settle for Bibby and even he isnt ideal. The Nets have a top 10 point guard when he is at its best, and you want to package him with a legit top 5 center for a guy whose only value on the court is scoring? Cammoooonnnnnn


----------



## Dre

*Re: Oh, Where, Oh, Where, Will 'Melo Go? Where Oh Where Will He Be?*

Devin Harris is not a point guard he's a short shooting guard. 

All he wants to do is penetrate and score and if by chance he can't score he'll find a (wide) open man. He's not a point guard.


----------



## HB

*Re: Oh, Where, Oh, Where, Will 'Melo Go? Where Oh Where Will He Be?*

You know how many dudes playing point fit that description in the NBA right now? Lots!

Would the Bucks trade Jennings and Bogut for Carmelo? Cammooonnnnnn


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Oh, Where, Oh, Where, Will 'Melo Go? Where Oh Where Will He Be?*

Jennings & Bogut are also a lot better than Harris & Lopez. And you're seriously overrating the importance of point guards. Boston won a title with the 2008 version of Rajon Rondo, who was a major offensive liability. LA's won five titles starting Derek ****ing Fisher at the point. Chris Paul is the best point guard on the planet and he's never seen a western conference final, and Deron Williams is unlikely to see another for several years. If you can start Favors & 'Melo at the forward spots, with Murphy to stretch the floor, then all you need is a playmaker. And, yes, you can find those.


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*Re: Oh, Where, Oh, Where, Will 'Melo Go? Where Oh Where Will He Be?*

HB is right about this. Not so much about Harris, but you don't trade a true 7 foot center with good feet, good hands and great potential who put up 19/9 last year (albeit on a dreadful team). Wings are easy to find. Every team has good wings just about. A legitimate center who is already playing at a borderline all-star level at 22 years old is something you hold onto. 

Harris is nothing more than a 6th man in my book, but a good one atleast. I personally wouldn't trade Lopez for Carmelo straight up. I'm not a big Carmelo guy, I don't think he can headline a title team. He relies too much on isolations and doesn't really do much except score. He can also be a hinderance in the locker room because he tends to be a crybaby when things don't go his way.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Oh, Where, Oh, Where, Will 'Melo Go? Where Oh Where Will He Be?*

How hard is it to average 19 in the East on a team with no other options? Especially when a lot of people say he's not a very good defensive player. 

I agreed with you that Melo is not a franchise player, but we're going to disagree if you're saying you wouldn't trade Lopez for him. Carmelo is at least 2 tiers above Lopez in terms of impact.


----------



## Blue

*Re: Oh, Where, Oh, Where, Will 'Melo Go? Where Oh Where Will He Be?*

He should take his talents to the Clippers. 

Randy/Bledsoe
EGo
Melo
BGriff
Kaman

That's a nice core for the future right there. Clippers trade Aminu + DeAndre + future pick protected for Melo.


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*Re: Oh, Where, Oh, Where, Will 'Melo Go? Where Oh Where Will He Be?*

Numbers aside, look at his abilities. He is a nimble 7'0, 260, with great hands and great feet. He put up those numbers at 22 years old. Big guys typically get better because adjusting to the physicality of the NBA takes a little longer. Look at Bogut. He was a revolving door defensively just a couple of years ago, and was pretty underwhelming offensively too. Now he is dominant defensively and very effective offensively. A top 5 center is harder to come by than a top 5 small forward. 

Again, I don't trade big 7 footers with actual skills and athleticism unless I'm getting back an MVP type player. Some might argue that Carmelo is an MVP type player, hence why they would pull the trigger on that deal in a heartbeat, but I don't think of Carmelo that highly.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Oh, Where, Oh, Where, Will 'Melo Go? Where Oh Where Will He Be?*

So what's your ceiling for Lopez


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*Re: Oh, Where, Oh, Where, Will 'Melo Go? Where Oh Where Will He Be?*

I don't think he'll have any problem being a 20/10 player in his prime with 2-3 blocks per game. I also think he'll be a defensive presence once he gets used to the NBA game, and once he is playing on a team that isn't a joke. It's hard to be a great interior defender when your perimeter defense is constantly letting guys past them. Bad team defense is contagious.


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: Oh, Where, Oh, Where, Will 'Melo Go? Where Oh Where Will He Be?*



Dre™;6373869 said:


> How hard is it to average 19 in the East on a team with no other options? Especially when a lot of people say he's not a very good defensive player.
> 
> I agreed with you that Melo is not a franchise player, but we're going to disagree if you're saying you wouldn't trade Lopez for him. Carmelo is at least 2 tiers above Lopez in terms of impact.


You're talking as if the Nets are trying to deal dollar for dollar for Melo.

I don't care if Melo is 5 tiers higher than Lopez, right now his trade value isn't higher than Lopez and therefore the Nets shouldn't trade Lopez for him. Nets recognize that the Nuggets want to get something for Melo if Melo isn't re-signing in Denver and their current offer of Favors + whoever else the Nuggets get in that 4-team trade is the best offer out there. Unless another team come up with a better offer the Nets should hold and give time for Denver to recognize their situation with Melo and a trade should happen. So far the Sixers offered Iguodala and if I'm Denver I would much rather take Favors and see how he develops then take a guy who's already peaked and has a big contract.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Oh, Where, Oh, Where, Will 'Melo Go? Where Oh Where Will He Be?*

I already stated my feelings twice in this thread, I was just being hypothetical with that situation. 

I agree the Nets have the inside track with Favors as the primary piece.


----------



## Diable

*Re: Oh, Where, Oh, Where, Will 'Melo Go? Where Oh Where Will He Be?*

Hell the Nets have Terrence Williams they don't need Melo, Harris or Lopez. They can trade all those guys for hotter cheerleaders.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Oh, Where, Oh, Where, Will 'Melo Go? Where Oh Where Will He Be?*

Avery compared 6'8 Favors to Tim Duncan.

I'd compare Lopez to Hakeem Olajuwan.

Nets just need to sign Melo and Chris Paul as free agents.


----------



## hroz

*Re: UPDATE: Den., Philly talk 'Melo for Iggy trade; 'Melo says won't sign ext. in Phi*



Floods said:


> LOOOOOOL





FX™ said:


> Nuggets get Favors, Harris and a load of picks that won't be anything good because Kings with Billups will be very good, and Nets will lift into at least the playoffs, for Melo, Billups AND Lawson..wtf


Nuggets also save $25million. (They are over luxury tax and play double for everything over luxury tax)


----------



## Ben

*Re: Oh, Where, Oh, Where, Will 'Melo Go? Where Oh Where Will He Be?*



Ballscientist said:


> Avery compared 6'8 Favors to Tim Duncan.
> 
> I'd compare Lopez to Hakeem Olajuwan.
> 
> Nets just need to sign Melo and Chris Paul as free agents.


I'd compare Terrence Williams to Michael Jordan.

I'd compare Carmelo Anthony to Larry Bird, and I'd also compare Chris Paul to Magic Johnson.

Therefore, if Nets sign Melo and CP3, they can field a line up of:

Magic/Jordan/Bird/Duncan/Hakeem


----------



## RollWithEm

*Re: Oh, Where, Oh, Where, Will 'Melo Go? Where Oh Where Will He Be?*



FX™ said:


> I'd compare Terrence Williams to Michael Jordan.
> 
> I'd compare Carmelo Anthony to Larry Bird, and I'd also compare Chris Paul to Magic Johnson.
> 
> Therefore, if Nets sign Melo and CP3, they can field a line up of:
> 
> Magic/Jordan/Bird/Duncan/Hakeem


That team would win some games. I just don't know if they could keep their egos in check.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Oh, Where, Oh, Where, Will 'Melo Go? Where Oh Where Will He Be?*



FX™ said:


> I'd compare Terrence Williams to Michael Jordan.


Man, you are really underrating T-Will. He combines Jordan's scoring with Reggie's shooting, Magic's passing and Malone's rebounding. I mean, LeBron is nothing more than a crack whore's T-Will.


----------



## MemphisX

*Re: Oh, Where, Oh, Where, Will 'Melo Go? Where Oh Where Will He Be?*



HB said:


> There's nothing to preach about that post...that's horrible. Carmelo is NOT Lebron, neither is he Wade, you dont trade two top ten players at their position for him and think you are going to somehow plug those holes with anyone and do fine.
> 
> Melo and Bosh have got to be two of the most overrated players on the face of the planet. Trade Harris and Lopez for Dwight, you wont see me complaining. Same goes for Durant, Paul, maybe even Deron, but Carmelo...heck naw!



So you think it is a coincidence that Denver has not missed the playoffs in the West since Melo arrived? 

As much as Net fans have jizzed over the scrubs on that roster, dating back to Rainbow Richard, I could not even imagine how you would feel if Melo or Bosh would have been drafted by New Jersey.

Melo is a franchise player.

Now this craziness about Lopez being untradeable or a future stud. GTFO. Nobody really thinks that crap and there is absolutely no evidence that Lopez will ever be anything more than the East Coast version of Chris Kaman. He has not had an impact on any team he has been on in the W/L column, offensively or defensively. He isn't tough, physically or mentally. This is just a classic case of overrating a young player because they can score.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Oh, Where, Oh, Where, Will 'Melo Go? Where Oh Where Will He Be?*



MemphisX said:


> So you think it is a coincidence that Denver has not missed the playoffs in the West since Melo arrived?
> 
> As much as Net fans have jizzed over the scrubs on that roster, dating back to Rainbow Richard, I could not even imagine how you would feel if Melo or Bosh would have been drafted by New Jersey.
> 
> Melo is a franchise player.
> 
> Now this craziness about Lopez being untradeable or a future stud. GTFO. Nobody really thinks that crap and there is absolutely no evidence that Lopez will ever be anything more than the East Coast version of Chris Kaman. He has not had an impact on any team he has been on in the W/L column, offensively or defensively. He isn't tough, physically or mentally. This is just a classic case of overrating a young player because they can score.


What!!! This is crazy talk!!!! Why, Lopez is nearly as good Shaqeem Abdul Chamberussell himself!!!!


----------



## Spaceman Spiff

*Re: Oh, Where, Oh, Where, Will 'Melo Go? Where Oh Where Will He Be?*



FX™ said:


> *I'd compare Terrence Williams to Michael Jordan.*


This is worse than when Kahn compared Webber to Darko. How dare you class the legendary Terrence Williams with the likes of Jordan


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*Re: Oh, Where, Oh, Where, Will 'Melo Go? Where Oh Where Will He Be?*



MemphisX said:


> This is just a classic case of overrating a young player because they can score.


I was thinking the exact same thing about the player you're defending. I guess the chips are on the table. We'll see how much of a franchise player Carmelo is in coming years, but given how bad he has been in the playoffs through his career, I don't think I have anything to worry about. He is a regular season superstar.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Oh, Where, Oh, Where, Will 'Melo Go? Where Oh Where Will He Be?*

We will most definitely see..but then again if he winds up teaming with Paul and/or Amare it's going to be hard to qualify him.


----------



## Hyperion

*Re: Oh, Where, Oh, Where, Will 'Melo Go? Where Oh Where Will He Be?*



MemphisX said:


> So you think it is a coincidence that Denver has not missed the playoffs in the West since Melo arrived?
> 
> As much as Net fans have jizzed over the scrubs on that roster, dating back to Rainbow Richard, I could not even imagine how you would feel if Melo or Bosh would have been drafted by New Jersey.
> 
> Melo is a franchise player.
> 
> Now this craziness about Lopez being untradeable or a future stud. GTFO. Nobody really thinks that crap and there is absolutely no evidence that Lopez will ever be anything more than the East Coast version of Chris Kaman. He has not had an impact on any team he has been on in the W/L column, offensively or defensively. He isn't tough, physically or mentally. This is just a classic case of overrating a young player because they can score.


I think his twin brother Robin Lopez will be better in the long run because he's been the defense while his brother was the offense. Now Robin will develop an offensive game but still be leaps ahead of his brother in terms of defense


----------



## MemphisX

*Re: Oh, Where, Oh, Where, Will 'Melo Go? Where Oh Where Will He Be?*



Sir Patchwork said:


> I was thinking the exact same thing about the player you're defending. I guess the chips are on the table. We'll see how much of a franchise player Carmelo is in coming years, but given how bad he has been in the playoffs through his career, I don't think I have anything to worry about. He is a regular season superstar.




LMAO...as oppsed to the preseason/fantasy basketball superstars you are so keen on hyping.

I'll give it to you though, Brook Lopez has not had a problem with his playoff performances.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Oh, Where, Oh, Where, Will 'Melo Go? Where Oh Where Will He Be?*

Here's Brook Lopez's finest moment ------------> <----------------- right there son


----------



## MemphisX

*Re: Oh, Where, Oh, Where, Will 'Melo Go? Where Oh Where Will He Be?*



Dre™;6374118 said:


> Here's Brook Lopez's finest moment ------------> <----------------- right there son



Nah playa...here is Brooke


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*Re: Oh, Where, Oh, Where, Will 'Melo Go? Where Oh Where Will He Be?*

Better keep that college title picture on the hard drive. Unless Carmelo hops on board with a real franchise player, it's not happening for him in the pros. I have nothing left to say about Lopez because foresight is not the strong suit of anyone who thinks that playing on a terrible team automatically means that nobody on that team can ever be a good player. That's takes a great amount of short-sightedness, but if that's how you guys feel, then don't let me stop you. 12 wins!


----------



## Dre

*Re: Oh, Where, Oh, Where, Will 'Melo Go? Where Oh Where Will He Be?*

Calm down we're joking. Surely we can get angry over better players than Brook Lopez


----------



## Tragedy

*Re: Oh, Where, Oh, Where, Will 'Melo Go? Where Oh Where Will He Be?*



Sir Patchwork said:


> Better keep that college title picture on the hard drive. Unless Carmelo hops on board with a real franchise player, it's not happening for him in the pros. I have nothing left to say about Lopez because foresight is not the strong suit of anyone who thinks that playing on a terrible team automatically means that nobody on that team can ever be a good player. That's takes a great amount of short-sightedness, but if that's how you guys feel, then don't let me stop you. 12 wins!


The same could be said about Lebron.

So should we take Lebron down a couple pegs to Melo's level?

Because without another "real franchise player" the so called best player in the NBA hasn't won crap.

I think right now you're just reaching for things to knock Melo down a bit.


----------



## HB

*Re: Oh, Where, Oh, Where, Will 'Melo Go? Where Oh Where Will He Be?*



Sir Patchwork said:


> HB is right about this. Not so much about Harris, but you don't trade a true 7 foot center with good feet, good hands and great potential who put up 19/9 last year (albeit on a dreadful team). Wings are easy to find. Every team has good wings just about. A legitimate center who is already playing at a borderline all-star level at 22 years old is something you hold onto.
> 
> Harris is nothing more than a 6th man in my book, but a good one atleast. I personally wouldn't trade Lopez for Carmelo straight up. I'm not a big Carmelo guy, I don't think he can headline a title team. He relies too much on isolations and doesn't really do much except score. He can also be a hinderance in the locker room because he tends to be a crybaby when things don't go his way.


This is the only post in the last two pages that has made sense...and will one of you geniuses please answer my question would you trade Bogut and Jennings for Melo? Again NOT Jennings or Bogut, its Jennings and Bogut.

I do find the Twill statements hilarious though, its weird how you all get your panties in a bunch about players you know nothing about. No one ever said he was Jordan like, heck pretty sure I never said he was an all star, but it does seem to bother you that his all around game is being complimented. Guess if I said something like Twill's a bum you'd be just dandy with that. LOL


----------



## HB

*Re: Oh, Where, Oh, Where, Will 'Melo Go? Where Oh Where Will He Be?*

Melo is a top 10 player by virtue of his scoring prowess, but I'll just keep it simple for those of you that fail to grasp this....MELO DOES NOT MAKE ANY ONE BETTER.


----------



## HB

*Re: Oh, Where, Oh, Where, Will 'Melo Go? Where Oh Where Will He Be?*



MemphisX said:


> So you think it is a coincidence that Denver has not missed the playoffs in the West since Melo arrived?
> 
> As much as Net fans have jizzed over the scrubs on that roster, dating back to Rainbow Richard, I could not even imagine how you would feel if Melo or Bosh would have been drafted by New Jersey.
> 
> Melo is a franchise player.
> 
> Now this craziness about Lopez being untradeable or a future stud. GTFO. Nobody really thinks that crap and there is absolutely no evidence that Lopez will ever be anything more than the East Coast version of Chris Kaman. He has not had an impact on any team he has been on in the W/L column, offensively or defensively. He isn't tough, physically or mentally. This is just a classic case of overrating a young player because they can score.


Franchise player lol...the same folks on here that belittle dude his first few seasons on here for not being able to get his team past the first round, are the same folks elevating him to this crazy status....without Billups you think the Nuggets do as well as they did the last few seasons?


----------



## HB

*Re: Oh, Where, Oh, Where, Will 'Melo Go? Where Oh Where Will He Be?*



Sir Patchwork said:


> Better keep that college title picture on the hard drive. Unless Carmelo hops on board with a real franchise player, it's not happening for him in the pros. I have nothing left to say about Lopez because foresight is not the strong suit of anyone who thinks that playing on a terrible team automatically means that nobody on that team can ever be a good player. That's takes a great amount of short-sightedness, but if that's how you guys feel, then don't let me stop you. 12 wins!


Its crazy, I dont think we have every agreed on any topic on this board cept this one, and we have both been posting on here for years.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Oh, Where, Oh, Where, Will 'Melo Go? Where Oh Where Will He Be?*

So when you do get him don't go turning him into the greatest scorer in NBA history Nets fans. We have this as blackmail.


----------



## HB

*Re: Oh, Where, Oh, Where, Will 'Melo Go? Where Oh Where Will He Be?*

Heh already acknowledged that I believe on the Nets thread........he works for the Nets because they need that big name player going to Brooklyn. He will sell tickets, challenge for the scoring title etc etc But he is not winning without a Harris and a Lopez, get that silly notion out of your minds. This guy's no Kobe, Durant or Bron. He's not winning with a bunch of scrubs.


----------



## Hyperion

*Re: Oh, Where, Oh, Where, Will 'Melo Go? Where Oh Where Will He Be?*



HB said:


> Heh already acknowledged that I believe on the Nets thread........he works for the Nets because they need that big name player going to Brooklyn. He will sell tickets, challenge for the scoring title etc etc But he is not winning without a Harris and a Lopez, get that silly notion out of your minds. This guy's no Kobe, Durant or Bron. He's not winning with a bunch of scrubs.


Kobe won without Shaq or Gasol?


----------



## HB

*Re: Oh, Where, Oh, Where, Will 'Melo Go? Where Oh Where Will He Be?*

Precisely...though he did get slaughtered in the first round with Odom as his side kick


----------



## Floods

*Re: Oh, Where, Oh, Where, Will 'Melo Go? Where Oh Where Will He Be?*

Melo's not a franchise player, so that means they shouldn't trade Harris (also not a franchise player, and very inferior to Melo) for him? That makes perfect sense.


----------



## MemphisX

*Re: Oh, Where, Oh, Where, Will 'Melo Go? Where Oh Where Will He Be?*



HB said:


> Franchise player lol...the same folks on here that belittle dude his first few seasons on here for not being able to get his team past the first round, are the same folks elevating him to this crazy status....without Billups you think the Nuggets do as well as they did the last few seasons?


Well, they lost in the first round last year with the great Billups. See, the Nuggets play in the Western Conference. Melo, Durant, Dirk and Brandon Roy lost in the first round in the West because unlike in the East, they have to face Deron Williams, Duncan/Parker/Manu, Nash/Amare and Kobe/Pau. The Nuggets won more games last season than both Nets teams that went to the finals.

Not sure how Melo isn't a franchise player but I guess you wouldn't want Durant either because he hasn't done squat in the NBA his first 3 years.


----------



## HB

*Re: Oh, Where, Oh, Where, Will 'Melo Go? Where Oh Where Will He Be?*

Cept Melo and Durant dont have much in common. You dont need to run a thousand iso plays for Durant to put the ball in the Net and he's a very efficient scorer. But really what makes Durant unique is the fact that he's such a mismatch nightmare, really hard to guard. You really think the OKC Thunder are winning the amount of games they won with Durant last year if you replace him with Melo? Get real. Durant franchise player....Melo = Bosh type player.

Also and I will repeat yet again, Melo has been surrounded by good players. He isnt playing with scrubs. To compete in the West you need good players, the Nuggets tried to provide him with that.

Melo has had better supporting casts than Bron and Wade since he got to the league.


----------



## Coatesvillain

*Re: Oh, Where, Oh, Where, Will 'Melo Go? Where Oh Where Will He Be?*



HB said:


> How long did it take the Sixers to find a point guard? Y'all act like getting decent points is so easy. The Timberwolves years later are still looking for a starting point guard...it took the Hawks years to finally settle for Bibby and even he isnt ideal. The Nets have a top 10 point guard when he is at its best, and you want to package him with a legit top 5 center for a guy whose only value on the court is scoring? Cammoooonnnnnn


In what world is Harris a top 10 PG?


----------



## HB

*Re: Oh, Where, Oh, Where, Will 'Melo Go? Where Oh Where Will He Be?*

He was on CBS' top 10 point guard list a while back (DIME, NBA.com, espn) and he MOST definitely was a top 10 point guard his all star year. You trying to pull an inception on me man?


----------



## Coatesvillain

*Re: Oh, Where, Oh, Where, Will 'Melo Go? Where Oh Where Will He Be?*

"A while back."

Nothing more to see here.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Oh, Where, Oh, Where, Will 'Melo Go? Where Oh Where Will He Be?*

Paul
Williams
Rondo
Rose
Nash
Jennings
Arenas
Brooks
Billups
Westbrook
Kidd
Parker

No order, people I'd happily take over Harris without a second thought. Wall, Gordon and Mayo too but I won't be unfair.


----------



## Coatesvillain

*Re: Oh, Where, Oh, Where, Will 'Melo Go? Where Oh Where Will He Be?*

Even though I'm not a big fan I'd throw both Nelson and Miller above him as well.


----------



## HB

*Re: Oh, Where, Oh, Where, Will 'Melo Go? Where Oh Where Will He Be?*

LOL.....Harris is a flawed point. I am not enamored with him trust me, BUT after witnessing what he did in his all star year, I can guarantee you that at his best he is a top 5-10 point and no Brandon Jennings is not better.

Most of these scoring guards are pretty much the same, they want to pick up fouls, drive into the paint relentlessly, once in a while will make a few cute passes and of course live off the drive and dish. Paul, Nash, Deron maybe Rondo are the only true natural points in the game right now.



> Coatesvillain said:
> 
> 
> 
> "A while back."
> 
> Nothing more to see here.
Click to expand...

Meaning the season before last, he was injured most of last season.


----------



## Luke

*Re: Oh, Where, Oh, Where, Will 'Melo Go? Where Oh Where Will He Be?*

LOL at Harris being a top ten point. He's an inefficient chucking shooting guard stuck in a point guard's body. He's not a player that can help you win a championship. You'd take him over Brandon Jennings? Seriously? Looks like someone didn't watch very much of the Bucks this year.


----------



## HB

*Re: Oh, Where, Oh, Where, Will 'Melo Go? Where Oh Where Will He Be?*

Nvm y'all suffer amnesia every season....same folks going ooo aaa during his all star season are the same folks talking **** now. You are lucky I am too lazy to start searching threads right now.


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*Re: Oh, Where, Oh, Where, Will 'Melo Go? Where Oh Where Will He Be?*



Tragedy said:


> The same could be said about Lebron.
> 
> So should we take Lebron down a couple pegs to Melo's level?
> 
> Because without another "real franchise player" the so called best player in the NBA hasn't won crap.
> 
> I think right now you're just reaching for things to knock Melo down a bit.


My problem with Melo has nothing to do with his team success. I just have to speak that language to people who think that winning is the only thing that makes individual players great. The same people who actually think Carmelo is better than Durant still. 

My problem with Carmelo is simple. First of all, he is a knucklehead prone to making dumb decisions on the court, and sometimes off the court that affect his team. As far as his game, he is an elite scorer, but he is a ballstopper and requires too many isolations. I think he would suffer greatly under a more structured coach who didn't let him get away with it. He better hope he gets on board with D'Antoni. Lastly, he doesn't really give you much else. 

He is basically the small forward version of Amare to me. Great scorer, but doesn't give you much else, and is prone to bad decision making. He'd be a great sidekick or compliment to a big man like Dwight. I don't think he is good enough to be the primary option on a championship team.


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*Re: Oh, Where, Oh, Where, Will 'Melo Go? Where Oh Where Will He Be?*



Dre™ said:


> Calm down we're joking. Surely we can get angry over better players than Brook Lopez


No one is angry. I just thought ya'll could handle a little sarcasm since you were posting pictures and joking around. Guess I was wrong.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Oh, Where, Oh, Where, Will 'Melo Go? Where Oh Where Will He Be?*

lol I'm fine and was when I made the post, no thing...


----------



## EGarrett

*Re: Oh, Where, Oh, Where, Will 'Melo Go? Where Oh Where Will He Be?*



HB said:


> Heh already acknowledged that I believe on the Nets thread........he works for the Nets because they need that big name player going to Brooklyn. He will sell tickets, challenge for the scoring title etc etc But he is not winning without a Harris and a Lopez, get that silly notion out of your minds. This guy's no Kobe, Durant or Bron. He's not winning with a bunch of scrubs.


Yup, and a team with Melo and no C/PG is not any better on paper than what we had last year. If Denver asks for Harris/Lopez in the deal, I would just say no thank you. You can hold onto him and get ready for his ESPN "Decision" next year.


----------



## Hyperion

*Re: Oh, Where, Oh, Where, Will 'Melo Go? Where Oh Where Will He Be?*



Sir Patchwork said:


> My problem with Melo has nothing to do with his team success. I just have to speak that language to people who think that winning is the only thing that makes individual players great. The same people who actually think Carmelo is better than Durant still.
> 
> My problem with Carmelo is simple. First of all, he is a knucklehead prone to making dumb decisions on the court, and sometimes off the court that affect his team. As far as his game, he is an elite scorer, but he is a ballstopper and requires too many isolations. I think he would suffer greatly under a more structured coach who didn't let him get away with it. He better hope he gets on board with D'Antoni. Lastly, he doesn't really give you much else.
> 
> He is basically the small forward version of Amare to me. Great scorer, but doesn't give you much else, and is prone to bad decision making. He'd be a great sidekick or compliment to a big man like Dwight. I don't think he is good enough to be the primary option on a championship team.


That is the offense in Denver. Every player there is a ballhog. There is no swinging the ball like you see on the Suns, Lakers, or Spurs. However, Melo is freaking good at what he does. He is a very good defender. He is quick and big. He's a great go to scorer and does make it easier for his teammates to score, but no he is not a PG.


----------



## Kidd

*Re: Oh, Where, Oh, Where, Will 'Melo Go? Where Oh Where Will He Be?*

Boy I can't wait til next season when T-Will makes all of you eat your words.


----------



## Ben

*Re: Oh, Where, Oh, Where, Will 'Melo Go? Where Oh Where Will He Be?*

I don't think anyones doubting Terrence has talent..just not as much as some Nets fans claim.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Oh, Where, Oh, Where, Will 'Melo Go? Where Oh Where Will He Be?*

Hold up I take it back Brian...'cause none of us are gonna be able to explain that 11/4/3 he busts out with...


----------



## GrandKenyon6

*Re: Oh, Where, Oh, Where, Will 'Melo Go? Where Oh Where Will He Be?*

You can't be serious comparing grossly over-rated Andre Iguodala to Carmelo Anthony.

I wouldn't even trade T-Will for Iguodala.


----------



## GrandKenyon6

*Re: Oh, Where, Oh, Where, Will 'Melo Go? Where Oh Where Will He Be?*

And Carmelo Anthony is absolutely a franchise player.


----------



## GrandKenyon6

*Re: Oh, Where, Oh, Where, Will 'Melo Go? Where Oh Where Will He Be?*



HB said:


> Heh already acknowledged that I believe on the Nets thread........he works for the Nets because they need that big name player going to Brooklyn. He will sell tickets, challenge for the scoring title etc etc But he is not winning without a Harris and a Lopez, get that silly notion out of your minds. This guy's no Kobe, Durant or Bron. He's not winning with a bunch of scrubs.


He can easily win without "a Harris" because "a Harris" is an unimportant and easily replaceable player.


----------



## HB

*Re: Oh, Where, Oh, Where, Will 'Melo Go? Where Oh Where Will He Be?*

Lol, hopefully Chris Quinn is still available then


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Oh, Where, Oh, Where, Will 'Melo Go? Where Oh Where Will He Be?*

Rockets have sent Knicks 2011 pick to Knicks conditionally.

Melo to Knicks is done deal?


----------



## Wilt_The_Stilt

*Re: Oh, Where, Oh, Where, Will 'Melo Go? Where Oh Where Will He Be?*

^
Here's the link:

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_a...up_trade_for_11_pick_to_use_in_deal_for_melo/


----------



## Dre

*Re: Oh, Where, Oh, Where, Will 'Melo Go? Where Oh Where Will He Be?*

I thought Denver was butthurt about thinking the Knicks tampered


----------



## 29380

*Re: Oh, Where, Oh, Where, Will 'Melo Go? Where Oh Where Will He Be?*



> Bottom line, the Knicks are confident that their lack of a first round pick is not a stumbling block to get Melo, as has been suggested.
> less than 5 seconds ago via TweetDeck
> 
> 
> 
> From what I understand, there is no actual trade for a first. There are scenarios in which the Knicks know they can get one if they need to.
> 1 minute ago via TweetDeck


Alan Hahn


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Den., Philly talk 'Melo for Iggy trade; 'Melo says won't sign ext. in Phi*



Knicks4life said:


> *Sources: “Little Chance” Melo Going Back to Nuggets*
> 
> 
> 
> *Source: Better Than 50% Chance Melo Traded In Next 48 Hours*





> A source connected to the ongoing trade discussions involving Carmelo Anthony said that there is "better than a 50 percent chance" that a trade will be completed within the next 24-48 hours.
> 
> William Wesley met with Jay-Z last week in New York to help set the stage for Anthony's arrival with the Nets, said a person with direct knowledge of the meeting.
> 
> While the Nuggets want to talk to Anthony directly, sources familiar with his position think that the team's attempt to change his mind about leaving Denver will be futile.
> 
> Any positive comments Anthony may make to the media on Monday are likely to be spin rather than actually indicating an open mind about remaining in Denver.
> 
> Meanwhile, the Nuggets are not sure they want to accept Derrick Favors as the centerpiece in a trade of their superstar.


Well, I guess that ship has sailed.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Oh, Where, Oh, Where, Will 'Melo Go? Where Oh Where Will He Be?*

:sadwww:

He went from pushing LeBron to Melo....Not a huge stepdown but a step down regardless.


----------



## Lynx

*Re: Oh, Where, Oh, Where, Will 'Melo Go? Where Oh Where Will He Be?*

Nice avatar, DRE 

LOL @ the thread title.


----------



## futuristxen

*Re: Oh, Where, Oh, Where, Will 'Melo Go? Where Oh Where Will He Be?*

I don't think the Knicks have needed to tamper with Melo. Similar to the Wade-Lebron situation, I think Melo has a lot of players in his ear telling him to go to the Knicks with Amare and not go to the Nets.

He'll either play out the season and not sign and extension and then sign with the Knicks this summer, or the Nuggets will accept the Knicks lowball offer.

The Knicks wouldn't be lowballing the Nuggets if they didn't know they have the upper hand.

The only alternative the Nuggets have is Chicago which is a worse deal. But they may do it out of spite just from being upset with the Knicks.


----------



## Xeneise

*Re: Oh, Where, Oh, Where, Will 'Melo Go? Where Oh Where Will He Be?*

LMFAO @ all of the people proposing deals where the Knicks get absolutely destroyed.

No way they give up 2 1sts + Gallo AND Randolph.


At most, one of Gallo/Randolph and 2 firsts, but never both of those guys. It wouldn't make sense, even for Carmelo


----------



## Juggernaut

*Re: Oh, Where, Oh, Where, Will 'Melo Go? Where Oh Where Will He Be?*

I'd love it if Jr came in the deal too 

Felton/Smith/Melo/Amare/Randolph

Then MLE for 6th man, :buddies:


----------



## MemphisX

*Re: Oh, Where, Oh, Where, Will 'Melo Go? Where Oh Where Will He Be?*



Xeneise said:


> LMFAO @ all of the people proposing deals where the Knicks get absolutely destroyed.
> 
> No way they give up 2 1sts + Gallo AND Randolph.
> 
> 
> At most, one of Gallo/Randolph and 2 firsts, but never both of those guys. It wouldn't make sense, even for Carmelo


Sounds so similar and just as silly as: The Bulls shouldn't give up Deng and Gordon for Pau Gasol, maybe one but not both.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Oh, Where, Oh, Where, Will 'Melo Go? Where Oh Where Will He Be?*

Gallo and Melo cancel each other out at the 3 so it's essentially Randolph and picks. And if you don't do that you're foolish, provided the Nuggets are even talking to them, which I don't believe. He's going to stay for this year IMO.


----------



## Hyperion

*Re: Oh, Where, Oh, Where, Will 'Melo Go? Where Oh Where Will He Be?*



Dre™ said:


> Gallo and Melo cancel each other out at the 3 so it's essentially Randolph and picks. And if you don't do that you're foolish, provided the Nuggets are even talking to them, which I don't believe. He's going to stay for this year IMO.


Wait so you're saying BOTH Randolph and Gallinari PLUS picks for Melo?


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Oh, Where, Oh, Where, Will 'Melo Go? Where Oh Where Will He Be?*



Hyperion said:


> Wait so you're saying BOTH Randolph and Gallinari PLUS picks for Melo?


Yeah, man! Anthony Randolph alone is too much for 'Melo! I mean, that's Mr. 40/20 hisself! You put Andrew Bynum, Anthony Randolph and Terrence Williams on one team and you have the greatest front line in NBA history!!!!


----------



## Ron

*Re: Oh, Where, Oh, Where, Will 'Melo Go? Where Oh Where Will He Be?*

The Denver camp must be in awesome place to be right around now.


----------



## jmk

*Re: Oh, Where, Oh, Where, Will 'Melo Go? Where Oh Where Will He Be?*

If Tim Duncan was a better player, he'd be Anthony Randolph.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Oh, Where, Oh, Where, Will 'Melo Go? Where Oh Where Will He Be?*



Hyperion said:


> Wait so you're saying BOTH Randolph and Gallinari PLUS picks for Melo?


Man please. Hell yes, very quickly. 

Those picks are gonna be late teens early 20s, Randolph could turn into an all-star, but I don't think Gallo will be better than say a Wally in his prime, and maybe in the right situation he could have a wonder year like Peja did once or twice.

Those guys are still question marks, they're hardly can't miss prospects.


----------



## HB

*Re: Oh, Where, Oh, Where, Will 'Melo Go? Where Oh Where Will He Be?*

I agree on this one


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Oh, Where, Oh, Where, Will 'Melo Go? Where Oh Where Will He Be?*

Knicks Wilson Chandler was traded to Spurs for a first rounder?


----------



## Dre

*Re: Oh, Where, Oh, Where, Will 'Melo Go? Where Oh Where Will He Be?*

No, no he was not. I don't see it reported anywhere. Stop with the false information already


----------



## Tragedy

*Re: Oh, Where, Oh, Where, Will 'Melo Go? Where Oh Where Will He Be?*

Can nets fans even talk?

The only reason Knicks fans don't want to give up Randolph with gallinari is that knocks fans want to see the hype over Randolph. 

Personally i think he's nothing more than attractive trade bait if he reaches his potential. 

Also knocks fans want to keep one of the two for a potential trade down the lone, not because they think he's going to be a star like some people feel about twill.


----------



## Tragedy

*Re: Oh, Where, Oh, Where, Will 'Melo Go? Where Oh Where Will He Be?*

That post was directed at jmk in regards to the Randolph joke.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Oh, Where, Oh, Where, Will 'Melo Go? Where Oh Where Will He Be?*



Tragedy said:


> Can nets fans even talk?
> 
> The only reason Knicks fans don't want to give up Randolph with gallinari is that knocks fans want to see the hype over Randolph.
> 
> Personally i think he's nothing more than attractive trade bait if he reaches his potential.
> 
> Also knocks fans want to keep one of the two for a potential trade down the lone, not because they think he's going to be a star like some people feel about twill.


All that is a lot of maybes and possibles, Carmelo isn't. 

In just about any scenario shy of both of those guys overachieving there's not a line of events that can occur that has me saying in two years "they're lucky they didn't do that Melo deal". I just don't see it.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: 'Melo Is Still In Denver. And Elvis Is Still Dead.*

The situation in Denver is getting poisonous. I think at this point Denver *has to move 'Melo*, and move him ASAP. Otherwise, its going to be a long, long season in the Mile-High city, and a bad one at that.

*Carmelo Anthony better get used to the boos*

Making things worse for Denver fans, KMart has "hurt feelings" over the fact that Denver decided not to offer him a long-term extension. So he has decided to take his time coming back from his injury. Jesus. As I said in earlier post, the Denver camp has got to be an uncomfortable place right around now.

George Karl doesn't deserve this. Not at all.

*What exactly did Kenyon Martin expect?*


----------



## Tragedy

*Re: Oh, Where, Oh, Where, Will 'Melo Go? Where Oh Where Will He Be?*

I agree completely. 

I'm not saying the knocks shouldn't do it, hell I even proposed curry, gallo and randolph for melo, 

But the knicks feel like they have leverage because Carmelo wants to play for NY so bad. So they're gonna lowball until they feel it's a real possibility of losing him. 

I really feel the Knicks have a back channel to get in touch with Carmelo, possibly through Amare. I can't see the Knicks so confident about the possibility ( not even jumping to offer everything).


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: UPDATE: 'Melo Is Still In Denver. And Elvis Is Still Dead.*

the problem is centerpiece of Nets and Clippers.

Nuggets don't want Favors and Kaman as centerpieces.

Nuggets wants an all-star and a top 3 pick, something like Iggy and Turner.

Where are Clippers and Nets new proposals?


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: UPDATE: 'Melo Is Still In Denver. And Elvis Is Still Dead.*



Ballscientist said:


> the problem is centerpiece of Nets and Clippers.
> 
> Nuggets don't want Favors and Kaman as centerpieces.
> 
> Nuggets wants an all-star and a top 3 pick, something like Iggy and Turner.
> 
> Where are Clippers and Nets new proposals?


If this is true, the Nuggets want way too much.


----------



## Duck

*Re: UPDATE: 'Melo Is Still In Denver. And Elvis Is Still Dead.*

Are you serious? AI is Lamar Odom before he got on a championship team. He's the fourth best guy on a contending team. Third on a good day. 

Evan Turner is good for certain, and probably the surest thing out of this year's draft. But Carmelo one of the top 10 players in the league. If he signs an extension before he comes, you do that deal.


----------



## HB

*Re: UPDATE: 'Melo Is Still In Denver. And Elvis Is Still Dead.*

Denver will regret not taking the Nets deal, especially the one Favors was involved in. I expect the geniuses on here to take that out of context as usual.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: UPDATE: 'Melo Is Still In Denver. And Elvis Is Still Dead.*

Could you please enlighten me as to how you can trade 340 pounds Curry contract for a superstar?


----------



## Dissonance

*Re: UPDATE: 'Melo Is Still In Denver. And Elvis Is Still Dead.*

*Knicks make progress on Carmelo Anthony trade*



> NEW YORK -- The New York Knicks have made significant progress in recent days in their efforts to acquire Carmelo Anthony from the Denver Nuggets, a source told ESPN.com Tuesday.
> 
> After a period of dormancy following the collapse of a four-team trade late last month between New Jersey, Denver, Utah and Charlotte, the Knicks got back in on the bidding about two weeks ago after Anthony made it known to the Nuggets that he would not budge on his refusal to sign a three-year, $65 million contract extension with Denver.
> 
> The offers the Knicks have proposed have always centered around packages including Anthony Randolph, the expiring contract of Eddy Curry and a first-round draft pick they would acquire from a third team, and New York has softened its stance on including forward Danilo Gallinari in a trade.
> 
> The most recent obstacle, according to the source, was for the Knicks to use one of those assets, likely Randolph or Gallinari, to acquire a player from a third team that the Nuggets value more highly than either of the Knicks forwards. The source said that obstacle can now be overcome, with the Knicks confident they can get their hands on a player the Nuggets would prefer.


----------



## Dre

*Re: UPDATE: 'Melo Is Still In Denver. And Elvis Is Still Dead.*

If they say so. If the Nuggets want Gallo and Randolph just do it. If you really plan on winning games there's no way Amare, Gallinari and Melo can even co-exist. You have to get rid of Gallinari for Melo.


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*Re: UPDATE: 'Melo Is Still In Denver. And Elvis Is Still Dead.*

Isn't Gallinari going to play center? Supposing they don't give him up, a frontcourt of Carmelo, Amare and Gallinari is right up D'Antoni's alley for his system. They'd need to give him up though.


----------



## Dissonance

*Re: UPDATE: 'Melo Is Still In Denver. And Elvis Is Still Dead.*

That Russian prospect they signed is supposed to play C for them. Gallo starting at the 3. But yeah, if they can steal Melo with this trade, yep, DO. IT. NOW.


----------



## Diable

*Re: UPDATE: 'Melo Is Still In Denver. And Elvis Is Still Dead.*

That doesn't seem like the best that the Nuggets could do, not unless this as yet nonexistent first rounder looks like it has a lot of ping pong balls with it. Knicks shouldn't be haggling if that's all they have to give up.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: UPDATE: 'Melo Is Still In Denver. And Elvis Is Still Dead.*

Maybe it's Randolph going to the Cavs for a #1?


----------



## 29380

*Re: UPDATE: 'Melo Is Still In Denver. And Elvis Is Still Dead.*



> The actual “significant progress,” one source said, was that the Nuggets were finally ready to accept the idea of engaging the Knicks and working out the best deal possible. This is significant to Walsh and the Knicks, who were miffed by the notion that they didn’t have anything of value to offer for Anthony. At the start, there were misguided suggestions that Denver wanted to get a top player, a top young player, draft picks and to come away with financial savings on this season’s cap. Now the understanding is that they might be able to come away with two of the four and a Nuggets source has repeatedly told us that financial savings is an absolutely must in any deal. Bottom line is, if Denver is giving up their star player, then team owner Stan Kroenke doesn’t want to pay luxury tax on a rebuilding team.


http://www.newsday.com/sports/basketball/knicks/the-knicks-fix-1.812055/source-nuggets-finally-considering-knicks-in-melo-deal-1.2376276


----------



## 29380

*Re: UPDATE: 'Melo Is Still In Denver. And Elvis Is Still Dead.*



> FisolaNYDN A person in Carmelo's camp on Knicks and Nuggets reportedly making progress told me: "That's news to me."


http://twitter.com/FisolaNYDN


----------



## HB

*Re: UPDATE: 'Melo Is Still In Denver. And Elvis Is Still Dead.*

Aldridge said the Nets are making progress today FWIW


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: 'Melo Is Still In Denver. And Elvis Is Still Dead.*

:lol:

Are we going to be dealing with this **** for the whole ****ing season? I am laughing my ass off at the drama. :laugh:


----------



## Wilt_The_Stilt

*Re: UPDATE: 'Melo Is Still In Denver. And Elvis Is Still Dead.*

Seems like the Nets might have the most to offer. They get the Mavs pick this year, right? If so they could offer Murphy, Favors, Williams and picks for Melo/Birdman. That would give Denver talent, draft picks, and save them some money.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: UPDATE: 'Melo Is Still In Denver. And Elvis Is Still Dead.*

Miami should just offer Bosh and run Lebron at the four. Bosh getting stuck in Denver over the life of a max deal might be the funniest thing to ever happen to a player who decided to take the easy way out.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: UPDATE: 'Melo Is Still In Denver. And Elvis Is Still Dead.*

Nuggets like Iggy and Turner. Nets and Knicks have nothing that Nuggets like.

the best idea is

Nuggets get Iggy and Turner

Nets or Knicks get Melo

Nets and Knicks submit an attractive or wow package to 76ers.

JR Smith to a fourth team.


----------



## Dre

*Re: UPDATE: 'Melo Is Still In Denver. And Elvis Is Still Dead.*

At the end of the day, after all the hype, this comes down, as usual, to idiotic Knicks management. The same people who pretty much broke even with a faux franchise player with 30 million free in the biggest free agent bonanza there will ever be are hedging their bets *again* on one player signing with them.

Bite the bullet, shutup and trade Gallo and Randolph. If the Knicks have any designs on actually being anything but the 20 teen Sixers they'd know they can't have Gallo and Carmelo on the court together anyway and expect to win anything, so in essence it's Randolph for Carmelo, which you do 9 days a week.


----------



## Hyperion

*Re: UPDATE: 'Melo Is Still In Denver. And Elvis Is Still Dead.*



Bogg said:


> Miami should just offer Bosh and run Lebron at the four. Bosh getting stuck in Denver over the life of a max deal might be the funniest thing to ever happen to a player who decided to take the easy way out.


The only problem is that they wouldn't have a PF after that trade.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: UPDATE: 'Melo Is Still In Denver. And Elvis Is Still Dead.*

Nuggets tell Nets that they don't have an asset to trade for Melo.

Nuggets should take Bosh/Gallo because they have reasonable contracts.

Melo = Bosh + Gallo

Equal trade value.

Then Knicks submit an attractive package to Heat.


----------



## Noyze

*Time For Change*

Guess it's official.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/rumors/post/Carmelo-Anthony-still-wants-out-of-Denver?urn=nba-280549

Trade ideas?


----------



## Tooeasy

*Re: Time For Change*

ugh just coming off a solid win against a playoff team in the west and he has to bitch. I seriously don't know what hes expecting to do, neither the knicks or nets are going to be a championship contender anytime in the next 4-5 years considering other teams ahead of the curve and the fact that both those rosters are crap already, and gutting them in a trade will make them even worse.


----------



## Jakain

*Re: Time For Change*

Has Melo really talked about championship aspirations though? Seems like he's more focused on going to a big market on the east coast above everything else.


----------



## BeeGee

*Re: Time For Change*

I think it goes without saying that he wants to win. But I think he's had his fill of Denver and wants to go back east more than any other desire.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: Time For Change*

the closer the cba negotiation gets the more he needs to shut up or eat 10s of millions of dollars


----------



## 29380

*Re: UPDATE: Melo wants change...so does that guy next to the laundry room*

*Source: Melo will only accept trade to Knicks*



> NEW YORK -- The Carmelo Anthony saga took a bold step closer to a resolution Sunday, with a person familar with the three-time All-Star's strategy confirming to CBSSports.com that he will only accept a trade to the Knicks.
> 
> ESPNNewYork.com reported after the Knicks beat Anthony's Nuggets 129-125 that Anthony has told Denver officials that he will only sign a three-year, $65 million extension if he is traded to New York. Two people familiar with the Nuggets' internal discussions with Anthony disputed the part about Anthony having informed the Nuggets of his exclusive preference for a trade to the Knicks. But one of those people, who has direct knowledge of Anthony's position, confirmed to CBSSports.com that if Anthony is traded, the Knicks are the only potential suitor with whom he'd agree to re-sign.
> 
> Anthony sidestepped questions about his future Sunday after scoring 31 points in a losing effort against his hometown team. The Brooklyn-born Anthony has declined to sign the Nuggets' extension offer for months, though he told CBSSports,com Saturday that he informed team officials last week that he hasn't ruled out re-signing with the Nuggets, who drafted him in 2003.
> 
> Sources told CBSSports.com last week that Nuggets management has all but decided to trade Anthony if he does not signal his intentions to re-sign with them before the Feb. 24 trade deadline. With the information now public that Anthony will only accept a trade to the Knicks, the situation now appears poised to enter a final critical stage that will test the Nuggets' new management regime of GM Masai Ujiri and executive Josh Kroenke.
> 
> Anthony does not have a no-trade clause in his contract, but has a certain amount of leverage to dictate the outcome because the Nuggets would obtain far fewer assets from a team Anthony won't extend with. For example, the best straight-up offer for Anthony that Denver has received so far -- Derrick Favors, Troy Murphy and two first-round picks -- has always been contingent on Anthony signing an extension to trigger the deal. Without having Melo under contract beyond this season, such an offer would be pulled off the table.
> 
> Enter the Knicks, whose assets and lack of quality first-round picks have not impressed the Nuggets' brass, according to sources. In fact, even if the Knicks were able to parlay Anthony Randolph into a first-round pick in a separate trade, sources tell CBSSports.com that it wouldn't make a difference from Denver's standpoint.
> 
> But if Anthony is successul in his effort to orchestrate a trade to the Knicks, the Nuggets would have no choice but to engage in discussions or risk losing Anthony as a free agent after the season, when he can opt out of his $18.5 million contract for the 2011-12 season.


*Source: Melo pushing trade to Knicks*



> NEW YORK -- Carmelo Anthony has told the Denver Nuggets he will not sign the nearly $65 million contract extension he has been offered unless he is traded to the New York Knicks, a source told ESPN.com on Sunday.
> 
> 
> The source, using the most definitive language possible, confirmed what has been widely speculated around the NBA over the past two months as Anthony has been at the center of trade talks involving numerous teams.
> 
> And while other franchises might be able to make better offers, Anthony will not agree to sign anywhere long-term unless he is dealt to New York, according to the source, who has been privy to private discussions between Anthony, his representatives and the Nuggets organization.
> 
> 
> The source spoke to ESPN.com after Denver's 129-125 loss to New York on Sunday afternoon as the Knicks won their eighth straight game.
> 
> 
> Anthony was again coy in discussing his future, but he did move the needle somewhat in making a prediction that the Nuggets will not trade him to a destination that is not on his wish list.
> 
> 
> "I don't think so. I don't think that will happen," Anthony said.
> 
> 
> Asked why he would make such a definitive statement, Anthony demurred "I don't want to answer that. I don't want to talk about that."
> 
> 
> Anthony received a standing ovation from Knicks fans during player introductions after hearing their pleadings on the streets ever since the Nuggets arrived in Manhattan late Friday night.
> 
> 
> "Everybody's yelling out the windows: 'Melo we need you in New York.' Of course that feels good when you know someone out there wants you to come and represent their team and represent their city. That's what I took from that," Anthony said.
> 
> 
> The New Jersey Nets have been holding out hope that their offer of Derrick Favors, Troy Murphy and two No. 1 draft picks would be the best offer available to the Nuggets, but the news that Anthony will not agree to sign with them long-term effectively knocks them out of the bidding.


----------



## futuristxen

*Re: UPDATE: Melo wants change...so does that guy next to the laundry room*

In the end the Nuggets are going to have to take Randolph, Curry, and a second round pick. Or watch him walk Lebron James/Chris Bosh style for a couple of second rounders. Haha.


----------



## MemphisX

*Re: UPDATE: Melo wants change...so does that guy next to the laundry room*

Like I have been saying from Day 1, Carmelo Anthony is not going to refuse to sign that $65 million extension no matter what team he is on come June. People who think he is are being totally stupid and blind to the realities of the next CBA. The salary cap could come down $5-15 million dollars with just an adjustment in the player % and then NY will not have any cap room to sign Melo. 

If I am Denver, I tell him point blank period, we are not trading you unless we get an offer that we would take if you were locked up long term and frankly the Knicks do not have the assets.


----------



## Diable

*Re: UPDATE: Melo wants change...so does that guy next to the laundry room*

The other way of looking at would be quite different. Melo doesn't want to expire and go to NYK. He wants to be traded while he is under contract under the current CBA. Likelihood is that the size of a max contract is the very first thing the union gives away during the lockout. If I am your average no ****ing chance at a Max contract player that's what I am going to give up instead of the things I might have a shot at like the MLE et cetera. How many millions does Melo stand to lose? Probably 20 would be a fair bet. Letting Melo walk is probably no worse than taking what the Knicks have also.


----------



## futuristxen

*Re: UPDATE: Melo wants change...so does that guy next to the laundry room*

He'll make back a lot of that money off the court in endorsements, being in one of the largest markets of the world, on a good Knicks team. Plus playing in the Eastern Time Zone will be a lot more exposure for him as a player. And his wife wants to be there. So I wouldn't rule out him taking a pay cut to play for the Knicks.

The Knicks are firmly in the driving seat right now. Especially with how they are playing early in the season. They have no rush to make a deal for Melo, they've got a good thing going, and as we saw with Miami it can be a month adjusting to a new player of that magnitude. 

The Knicks are getting a lot of mileage out of Amare being the man.


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: UPDATE: Melo wants change...so does that guy next to the laundry room*

I think the Knicks try to trade some of their assets the Nuggets aren't interested in to teams that are interested in them and then try to repackage a deal to Denver. Anthony Randolph, for example, is rumored to have interest from Houston for a first round pick that would be regifted to Denver.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: UPDATE: Melo wants change...so does that guy next to the laundry room*



futuristxen said:


> He'll make back a lot of that money off the court in endorsements, being in one of the largest markets of the world, on a good Knicks team.


The new CBA ain't gonna get him anything like enough money that he'll earn it back in endorsements. If I'm the Nuggets I tell Anthony to go **** himself and let him go into free agency and sign a contract that averages $15 million and then use the newly acquired cap space to rebuild around Ty Lawson. As they're going to suck in 2012 either way, they're better off sucking without getting stuck with roleplayers and their inflated salary demands.


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: UPDATE: Melo wants change...so does that guy next to the laundry room*

I suppose EH Munro brings up a good point...if you're going to rebuild, wouldn't you want to do it under a new CBA w/ lower max salary restraints than to take on a contract formed under an older, more pricey CBA?


----------



## ChosenFEW

*Re: UPDATE: Melo wants change...so does that guy next to the laundry room*

"damn it feels good to be a..." knicks fan?!?!?!

hells yeah


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: UPDATE: Melo wants change...so does that guy next to the laundry room*



kbdullah said:


> I suppose EH Munro brings up a good point...if you're going to rebuild, wouldn't you want to do it under a new CBA w/ lower max salary restraints than to take on a contract formed under an older, more pricey CBA?


I think the danger is if you take back Chandler & Randolph, you either need to let them walk, or sign them and squander cap space that's likely going to be a lot more scarce. I really think they'd be better off not sucking ahead of a draft that's likely going to be bad, and sucking next year in front of a much better draft.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: UPDATE: Melo wants change...so does that guy next to the laundry room*

In December 7, Melo told Spike Lee that he would only sign an extension if he were traded to Knicks.

In December 11, Melo said "his mind is not made up."

I don't know who is Spike Lee anyway.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: UPDATE: 'Melo is still in Denver...and the Beatles are on iTunes*

The good news is Nuggets respect Melo and Melo respects Nuggets. It means both sides will not hurt each other after Melo is traded next two months.


----------



## Dre

*Re: UPDATE: 'Melo is still in Denver...and the Beatles are on iTunes*

I do agree that the Nuggets have _some_ leverage, but whatever happens Carmelo will be a Knick next year, so that's all that matters.

They have leverage, but if they do play a hard line, make him sign and don't trade him he's going to make it so they'll have to do it at some point next season. Top tier players get what they want in this league, we can talk about taking all types of stands, but it will be fruitless for the Nuggets. They're better off auctioning him off and cutting their losses, because the longer the saga goes on the more it's going to lag the franchise. 

He'll turn into a cancer, poison his agent's other clients on Denver, and probably dog it until he gets what he wants.


----------



## Drewbs

*Re: UPDATE: 'Melo is still in Denver...and the Beatles are on iTunes*

The Knicks would be nasty with Felton, Melo and Amare.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: UPDATE: 'Melo is still in Denver...and the Beatles are on iTunes*

Denver newspaper reports the following source is wrong:

NEW YORK -- The Carmelo Anthony saga took a bold step closer to a resolution Sunday, with a person familar with the three-time All-Star's strategy confirming to CBSSports.com that he will only accept a trade to the Knicks.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: UPDATE: 'Melo is still in Denver...and the Beatles are on iTunes*

Result predictions:

Melo will sign the contract extension with Nuggets soon, then he will be traded to Knicks next summer.

Knicks will "borrow" an all star and 2 first round picks form third party for Melo in July.

This deal will not hurt both Denver and Melo.


----------



## Lynx

*NOT CONFIRMED: 'Melo goes to New Jersey Nets*



> The Denver Nuggets and New Jersey Nets come to terms to trade Carmelo Anthony to the Nets... full report at 10:00 p.m. with Lionel Bienvenu!


*Denver Channel - Official Twitter*


----------



## Dornado

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: 'Melo goes to New Jersey Nets*

hmmmmm I wonder what the deal is.


----------



## Pay Ton

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: 'Melo goes to New Jersey Nets*

:rofl:

Knick fans counted their eggs too soon again. You would have thought Lebron had taught them something.


----------



## roux

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: 'Melo goes to New Jersey Nets*

Im sure the nets are going to love watching him sign with the knicks after the season


----------



## futuristxen

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: 'Melo goes to New Jersey Nets*

If true, that's great for the Nets. Not sure how great it is for Melo. I would assume he's going to sign an extension there?

Amare and Melo both in the Big Apple, with no Lebron or Wade. What a crazy year.


----------



## Ron

*re: NOT CONFIRMED: 'Melo goes to New Jersey Nets*

Totally unconfirmed...Nets need the Rockets/Lakers deal to be finalized before they can EVEN CONSIDER this next move.

http://ken-berger.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/11838893/26450495


----------



## Ron

*Re: NOT CONFIRMED: 'Melo goes to New Jersey Nets*

Same Twitter channel.. :lol: Nothing has changed, of course.



> Camelo Anthony will need to commit to a long term contract with the Nets before the deal is done...full report in 2 mins on channel 7.


----------



## Lynx

*Re: NOT CONFIRMED: 'Melo goes to New Jersey Nets*

Adrian to the rescue:



> Any report Denver and New Jersey have an agreement for a Melo deal is "completely and utterly false" one high-ranking team executive texts Y!
> WojYahooNBA via UberTwitter


----------



## FreeMason Jr.

*Re: NOT CONFIRMED: 'Melo goes to New Jersey Nets*

Edit: Wrong thread.


----------



## Tragedy

*Re: NOT CONFIRMED: 'Melo goes to New Jersey Nets*



Pay Ton said:


> :rofl:
> 
> Knick fans counted their eggs too soon again. You would have thought Lebron had taught them something.






from that same twitter said:


> Camelo Anthony will need to commit to a long term contract with the Nets before the deal is done...full report in 2 mins on channel 7.


:rofl:

Denver and NJ can come to terms until they're blue in the face, if Carmelo doesn't sign that extension he either

Stays in Denver and plays out the season and goes to NY
Stays in Denver and signs an extension with Denver
Is traded to NJ without signing an extension and signs with NY
Gets traded to NY

That's it.

There's no way he gets traded to NJ having signed that extension, otherwise the deal would have been done months ago.

And NJ can't be that stupid to give up Derrick Favors and potentially lose Carmelo too. That's an even bigger gamble than the Lebron Sweepstakes.

There's a better chance of the Knicks getting him than Lebron. With Bron there was no one here. Now the Knicks have Stoudemire, Felton, Fields, and whoever remains of Gallinari/Chandler/Douglas/Randolph. At least two of those four will still be here - because if they have to give up three, they'll just tell Denver we'll get Melo in the offseason and you get nothing to show for it.


----------



## Ron

*Re: NOT CONFIRMED: 'Melo goes to New Jersey Nets*



FreeMason Jr. said:


> Edit: Wrong thread.


As in, "crappy source?"

Anyway, its apparently either a false report or a "jump the gun" report...I see it nowhere else, and am amazed that "TheDenverChannel.com" has not updated their twitter page to recognize their own ****-up.


----------



## MemphisX

*Re: UPDATE: 'Melo is still in Denver...and "TheDenverChannel.com" is a joke*

Really? So you know what the CBA will be next season? If NY has $9 million in capspace, do you think Melo is stil gung-ho to go to NY for 3 years/$27 million? See people don't understand, the cap may lower AND length of contracts might also.

No player is going into next season without a contract if they have an option to sign a contract now! Anyone who thinks so is a damn fool.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: 'Melo is still in Denver...and "TheDenverChannel.com" is a joke*



> Update: According to Chris Tomasson, the rumor is officially false: “A Nuggets official said rumor is false. I just talked to Melo and he said, ‘It’s terrible. There’s no truth to it.’”
> 
> Tune in tomorrow for another episode of the Carmelo soap opera.


No ****.

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/12/15/report-nets-nuggets-agree-to-anthony-deal/


----------



## Juggernaut

*Re: UPDATE: 'Melo is still in Denver...and "TheDenverChannel.com" is a joke*



MemphisX said:


> Really? So you know what the CBA will be next season? If NY has $9 million in capspace, do you think Melo is stil gung-ho to go to NY for 3 years/$27 million? See people don't understand, the cap may lower AND length of contracts might also.
> 
> No player is going into next season without a contract if they have an option to sign a contract now! Anyone who thinks so is a damn fool.


How much will Melo make off of advertising and marketing? 

Melo at the Garden, he'll make a **** load more than in Denver. New York is a global market, his face will be up in Times Square if he goes there.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: UPDATE: 'Melo is still in Denver...and "TheDenverChannel.com" is a joke*



MemphisX said:


> Really? So you know what the CBA will be next season? If NY has $9 million in capspace, do you think Melo is stil gung-ho to go to NY for 3 years/$27 million? See people don't understand, the cap may lower AND length of contracts might also.
> 
> No player is going into next season without a contract if they have an option to sign a contract now! Anyone who thinks so is a damn fool.


The other thing people are forgetting is that Anthony would be declaring free agency right before a lockout, so not only would there be a cap space drawdown, but he'd probably lose even more for not signing until there's an actual season.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: UPDATE: 'Melo is still in Denver...and "TheDenverChannel.com" is a joke*



Juggernaut said:


> Melo at the Garden, he'll make a **** load more than in Denver. New York is a global market, his face will be up in Times Square if he goes there.


The NBA is a global market. It doesn't really matter where they play. It's why LBJ's endorsement money won't change any despite the fact that he's playing in a tiny media market full of fans of other NBA teams.


----------



## Tragedy

*Re: UPDATE: 'Melo is still in Denver...and "TheDenverChannel.com" is a joke*



MemphisX said:


> Really? So you know what the CBA will be next season? If NY has $9 million in capspace, do you think Melo is stil gung-ho to go to NY for 3 years/$27 million? See people don't understand, the cap may lower AND length of contracts might also.
> 
> No player is going into next season without a contract if they have an option to sign a contract now! Anyone who thinks so is a damn fool.


I know this.

I posted numerous things that could happen. Right now it's a game of high stakes chicken between Denver and Carmelo.

But reports of the cap coming down put it anywhere between 52-55 million dollars, down from this seasons 58mil and change.

If Denver calls his bluff he'll still be able to sign an extension with them and just remain with the team I believe - which is his last case scenario.

The Knicks would have between 10 and 13 million, and who know's if they move someone to get a little more room.


----------



## Tragedy

*Re: UPDATE: 'Melo is still in Denver...and "TheDenverChannel.com" is a joke*



E.H. Munro said:


> The NBA is a global market. It doesn't really matter where they play. It's why LBJ's endorsement money won't change any despite the fact that he's playing in a tiny media market full of fans of other NBA teams.


That's Lebron James though. 

There are players who would benefit from exposure. Not saying Carmelo needs more exposure, but we can't downplay it.

Lebron James is known even to people who don't even watch basketball, Carmelo is well known, but not nearly as much as Bron.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: UPDATE: 'Melo is still in Denver...and "TheDenverChannel.com" is a joke*



Tragedy said:


> I know this.
> 
> I posted numerous things that could happen. Right now it's a game of high stakes chicken between Denver and Carmelo.
> 
> But reports of the cap coming down put it anywhere between 52-55 million dollars, down from this seasons 58mil and change.
> 
> If Denver calls his bluff he'll still be able to sign an extension with them and just remain with the team I believe - which is his last case scenario.
> 
> The Knicks would have between 10 and 13 million, and who know's if they move someone to get a little more room.


They could, undoubtedly, attempt to give Turiaf to a team under the cap and renounce Wilson Chandler to clear some space to give Anthony less money than he can sign for now. But the max deals are going to, undoubtedly, start lower and have fewer years, so his only chance at the 3/65 payday comes from signing now. If New York doesn't acquire him by the trade deadline he's going to have to leave millions on the table to play there.


----------



## Tragedy

*Re: UPDATE: 'Melo is still in Denver...and "TheDenverChannel.com" is a joke*



E.H. Munro said:


> They could, undoubtedly, attempt to give Turiaf to a team under the cap and renounce Wilson Chandler to clear some space to give Anthony less money than he can sign for now. But the max deals are going to, undoubtedly, start lower and have fewer years, so his only chance at the 3/65 payday comes from signing now. If New York doesn't acquire him by the trade deadline he's going to have to leave millions on the table to play there.


Without a doubt.

But does NY tell him, "sign now for whatever the maximum we'll be able to give you, and when it's up we'll give you another maximum guaranteed"

And in addition, do they try to pull strings to find other ways to give him more money for taking that chance?

I never understood why teams don't try that, certainly a team like NY.

If I worked for the Knicks I'd be on Madison Ave trying to cull together more endorsements around 500k starting. 

If you presented a player a contract that includes a list of endorsements adding extra income wouldn't that help sway a player? Or is that not allowed at all? I've always wondered that.

Give LaLa a show on MSG, tape it and air it 1am or some crap - and give her a 6 figure income. Say 175k or 230k.


----------



## ChosenFEW

*Re: UPDATE: 'Melo is still in Denver...and KGMH Channel 7 Loses All Credibility*

denver is going to milk as many wins as they can before trading melo...


expect a deal around the trade deadline..... unless carmelo agrees to sign an extension somewhere besides NY


----------



## MarionBarberThe4th

*Re: UPDATE: 'Melo is still in Denver...and KGMH Channel 7 Loses All Credibility*

Why do people give the most attention to the loudest report(er)s?

A little Woj goes a long way



> While Anthony hasn’t shown a great willingness to play for the Nets, he hasn’t ruled it out.


http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AmnDX1QBPgPSqH9IWti0lvu8vLYF?slug=aw-williamsrockets121410


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: 'Melo is still in Denver...and KGMH Channel 7 Loses All Credibility*

So, instead of sucking it up and admitting their mistake, this particular twitter channel decides just to eliminate the two "scoop" entries.

What a rag. :lol:

http://twitter.com/DenverChannel


----------



## Hyperion

*Re: UPDATE: 'Melo is still in Denver...and KGMH Channel 7 Loses All Credibility*

Denver needs to suck it up, blow up the team, get that high pick this year and hopefully, due to a lockout next year suck then too and land another top pick. Instant reload. Instead, they're going to get a middling pick, trade for middling players and be mediocre for 3-4 years before sucking and rebuilding. Gotta love the GMs of the NBA.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: UPDATE: 'Melo is still in Denver...and "TheDenverChannel.com" is a joke*



Juggernaut said:


> How much will Melo make off of advertising and marketing?
> 
> Melo at the Garden, he'll make a **** load more than in Denver. New York is a global market, his face will be up in Times Square if he goes there.


this kind of thinking is so 30 years ago - do you think he'll make more money than Lebron did in *Cleveland*?

it aint 'where' no more (everywhere is a global market given our level of media saturation), these days it's more about 'who'

and that's Melo's problem - he's not particularly charismatic (nor is his game) and he's kind of funny looking

even if you are right the Nets are as good as the Knicks since they share the same market


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: UPDATE: 'Melo is still in Denver...and KGMH Channel 7 Loses All Credibility*



Hyperion said:


> Denver needs to suck it up, blow up the team, get that high pick this year and hopefully, due to a lockout next year suck then too and land another top pick. Instant reload. Instead, they're going to get a middling pick, trade for middling players and be mediocre for 3-4 years before sucking and rebuilding. Gotta love the GMs of the NBA.


One, there are no guarantees of a high pick. Two, this year's draft is going to suck. This is the wrong year to end up with a pick in the 4-10 range because that's how you end up spending $10 million+ on the BFCD (aka Yi Jianlian).


----------



## MemphisX

*Re: UPDATE: 'Melo is still in Denver...and KGMH Channel 7 Loses All Credibility*

Yeah, this year's draft is horrendous. I am not sure even the #1 pick would help them in this draft. Better to suck beyond comprehension NEXT season and hope you find your Melo then. I would be pawning off Billups and Nene for any young players that are on low money deals or won't have to be extended for 2-3 seasons even if I have to take crappy vets on bad contracts to make it happen. In other words, it doesn't matter if the vet can play or how much he makes as long as his deal expires before you have to extend Favors and can have cap room to add an impact player.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: UPDATE: 'Melo is still in Denver...and KGMH Channel 7 Loses All Credibility*

Yeah, even if you land #1, who the hell do you pick? I like Kyrie Irving as much as the next guy, but is he really that much better then Ty Lawson to justify nuking the team? With the lockout looming I just don't see a lot of the freshman jumping in, so outside the first couple of picks you're likely going to get shafted.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: 'Melo is still in Denver...and KGMH Channel 7 Loses All Credibility*

Looks like these guys are getting a lot of grief for their sloppy reporting last night, that also had us scrambling for confirmation...until it became obvious that the story was bull****.



> Editor's Note: 7SPORTS stands by this story that the pieces of a deal are in place -- but it's all contingent on Anthony signing the extension. On Tuesday night, we Tweeted that the Nets and the Nuggets have come to an understanding on the terms of a potential deal. We tweeted,"The Denver Nuggets and the New Jersey Nets come to terms to trade Carmelo Anthony to the Nets." But some media outlets misinterpreted that wording as a confirmation of a trade. That was not the case. We never reported it was a done deal.


http://www.thedenverchannel.com/sports/26137842/detail.html

So, let me get this straight. These guys are moon-walking backwards in a fashion that would make Michael Jackson blush by trying to distinguish that "come to terms" was misinterpreted by some media outlets as a "confirmation as a trade."

Uh, give me a ****ing break. If these guys really don't know what "come to terms" means, then they are in the wrong business. Perhaps they should be reporting on something a little more benign, like senior citizen recreation locations or spelling bee contests.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: 'Melo is still in Denver...and KGMH Channel 7 Loses All Credibility*

P.S.

I guess lost upon them was the fact the 'Melo *PLAYED* in Tuesday night's game. If he had been negotiated away in a "come to terms" agreement then he would not have played at all! He would have been withheld by the team, as is NBA policy when players are involved in a trade that has been negotiated (but not necessarily approved by the NBA yet).

I vote spelling bee contests.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: UPDATE: 'Melo is still in Denver...and KGMH Channel 7 Loses All Credibility*

Knicks fans need to understand:

Knicks have no cap space to sign Melo next season.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: UPDATE: 'Melo is still in Denver...and KGMH Channel 7 Loses All Credibility*

After Rockets get Carl Landry back, they may offer Brooks/Scola/Hill/Battier and 2 Knicks first picks for Melo/Smith.
3 starters + Jordan Hill + 2 knicks picks

Nuggets will make the playoffs next 5 years.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: UPDATE: 'Melo is still in Denver...and KGMH Channel 7 Loses All Credibility*

I think you are an underappreciated genius


----------



## Tragedy

*Re: UPDATE: 'Melo is still in Denver...and KGMH Channel 7 Loses All Credibility*







lol @ the nets!


----------



## Truknicksfan

*Re: UPDATE: 'Melo is still in Denver...and KGMH Channel 7 Loses All Credibility*



> Knicks have no cap space to sign Melo next season.


How So?

Eddy Curry comes off the books at the end of this year.


----------



## Hyperion

*Re: UPDATE: 'Melo is still in Denver...and KGMH Channel 7 Loses All Credibility*



Truknicksfan said:


> How So?
> 
> Eddy Curry comes off the books at the end of this year.


They'll have around 16m. They'll have to give up Wilson Chandler or trade someone or hope the new CBA will have a lower max deal to make room for what Melo will command.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: UPDATE: 'Melo is still in Denver...and KGMH Channel 7 Loses All Credibility*

or they can trade for him now and extend his existing contract


----------



## Diable

*Re: UPDATE: 'Melo is still in Denver...and KGMH Channel 7 Loses All Credibility*

You guys are talking about capspace as though there is a cap for next year. That stuff is like what happened before the Big Bang or dividing by zero...it's undefined.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: UPDATE: 'Melo is still in Denver...and KGMH Channel 7 Loses All Credibility*

we have some fairly solid ideas of what it will be - one thing for sure, it aint going up


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: 'Melo is still in Denver...and KGMH Channel 7 Loses All Credibility*



Diable said:


> You guys are talking about capspace as though there is a cap for next year. That stuff is like what happened before the Big Bang or dividing by zero...it's undefined.


What next year? As far as I can see, a lockout is all but a certainty.


----------



## MarionBarberThe4th

*Re: UPDATE: 'Melo is still in Denver...and KGMH Channel 7 Loses All Credibility*

http://www.netsdaily.com/2010/12/21...aking-shape-with-melo-harrington-coming-to-nj


Adrian Wojnarowski reports that a new multi-team deal is shaping up for Carmelo Anthony that would bring Anthony, New Jersey native Al Harrington and possibly Chauncey Billups to the Nets with Devin Harris, Derrick Favors, Troy Murphy, multiple draft picks and cash headed out. Harris would go to an unspecified third team. Other players are likely to be involved as well.

Woj also reports that Anthony is "inclined" to sign a $65 million extension with the Nets, if they gather enough pieces to win now. The deal, he says, is not imminent but is coming together quickly.

"The way this is structured now, the Nets will significantly upgrade their team," one NBA executive involved in the talks told the Yahoo! reporter. Said another, "’Melo wants something similar to the Orlando deal, where he won’t have to go into New Jersey – or anywhere he’s going – without some help right away."

The specifics, including the Nets other partners, remain unclear, he writes. Not everyone agrees. Denver-based FanHouse writer Chris Tomasson writes 'Melo is not likely to accept a trade to New Jersey.


----------



## MarionBarberThe4th

*Re: UPDATE: 'Melo is still in Denver...and KGMH Channel 7 Loses All Credibility*

This is all I got.


http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=249n7ce


Melo, Harrington, Jason Collins, Jeff Teague to the Nets
Favors, Murphy, Marvin Williams, cash, the Nets 1st, and the Warriors first to the Nuggets
Harris to the Hawks


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: 'Melo is still in Denver...and KGMH Channel 7 Loses All Credibility*

Warriors are especially giving this holiday season.

They give up a 1st round draft pick for...nothing. :|


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: UPDATE: 'Melo is still in Denver...and KGMH Channel 7 Loses All Credibility*

Let's be honest, it wouldn't be the worst deal they've made in recent years. :bsmile:


----------



## MarionBarberThe4th

*Re: UPDATE: 'Melo is still in Denver...and KGMH Channel 7 Loses All Credibility*

The Nets have the Warriors 1st round pick protected 1-7 next year


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: 'Melo is still in Denver...and KGMH Channel 7 Loses All Credibility*



MarionBarberThe4th said:


> The Nets have the Warriors 1st round pick protected 1-7 next year


Okay...but how is that part of the overall package? That was what was confusing.

EDIT: Okay, I get it now. Still too early in the morning.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: 'Melo is still in Denver...and KGMH Channel 7 Loses All Credibility*



E.H. Munro said:


> Let's be honest, it wouldn't be the worst deal they've made in recent years. :bsmile:


:laugh:


----------



## Dre

*Re: UPDATE: 'Melo is still in Denver...and KGMH Channel 7 Loses All Credibility*



MarionBarberThe4th said:


> http://www.netsdaily.com/2010/12/21...aking-shape-with-melo-harrington-coming-to-nj
> 
> 
> Adrian Wojnarowski reports that a new multi-team deal is shaping up for Carmelo Anthony that would bring Anthony, New Jersey native Al Harrington and possibly Chauncey Billups to the Nets with Devin Harris, Derrick Favors, Troy Murphy, multiple draft picks and cash headed out. Harris would go to an unspecified third team. Other players are likely to be involved as well.
> 
> Woj also reports that Anthony is "inclined" to sign a $65 million extension with the Nets, if they gather enough pieces to win now. The deal, he says, is not imminent but is coming together quickly.
> 
> "The way this is structured now, the Nets will significantly upgrade their team," one NBA executive involved in the talks told the Yahoo! reporter. Said another, *"’Melo wants something similar to the Orlando deal, where he won’t have to go into New Jersey – or anywhere he’s going – without some help right away."*
> 
> The specifics, including the Nets other partners, remain unclear, he writes. Not everyone agrees. Denver-based FanHouse writer Chris Tomasson writes 'Melo is not likely to accept a trade to New Jersey.


LOL @ Carmelo always wanting to do something he just seen. 

Maybe Deron Williams should come out and say he's going to stick with Utah and not beg for a trade because he wants to be with friends.


----------



## HB

*Re: UPDATE: 'Melo is still in Denver...and KGMH Channel 7 Loses All Credibility*

Good for the Nets. But I suspect this drama will pop up in a year or two.


----------



## Damian Necronamous

*Re: UPDATE: 'Melo is still in Denver...and KGMH Channel 7 Loses All Credibility*

There's no reason for Denver to deal Carmelo until they see how their team performs at full strength.

PG: Chauncey Billups...Ty Lawson
SG: Arron Afflalo...J.R. Smith
SF: Carmelo Anthony
PF: Kenyon Martin...Al Harrington
C: Nene...Chris Andersen

That's one of the deepest teams in the league, and certainly has the potential to do some serious damage. It couldn't hurt to hope that the team, once healthy, goes on a big surge and that Carmelo may start to reconsider his options for next year.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: UPDATE: 'Melo is still in Denver...and KGMH Channel 7 Loses All Credibility*

Knicks need to offer a more serious trade proposal thru the third team. They have no chance to sign Melo next summer because of new CBA. 
I think the Knicks are offering crap (Curry and Gallanari) because they feel that is Melo's first choice.


----------



## Dre

*Re: UPDATE: 'Melo is still in Denver...and KGMH Channel 7 Loses All Credibility*

When you're talking about a guy that wants to move largely because his friends did you're talking about a guy who probably doesn't have a tangible concept of the money he's leaving on the table waiting until the next CBA to sign a contract. It's all maximum contract and "approved" to him. That's an overrated aspect of the situation. 

And I do think part of Carmelo really wants to be apart of a real contender..if he went to the Knicks you'd be hard pressed to project many teams in the east better than them within 2 years.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: UPDATE: 'Melo is still in Denver...and KGMH Channel 7 Loses All Credibility*

under new cba, Knicks might have 8 mil over the cap. they need to dump Amare and Felton salaries to clear the cap space this season.

Nets have no assets to trade for Melo, it is great idea to make deal thru 5 other teams.


----------



## Dre

*Re: UPDATE: 'Melo is still in Denver...and KGMH Channel 7 Loses All Credibility*

That was weak.


----------



## Dissonance

*Re: UPDATE: 'Melo is still in Denver...and KGMH Channel 7 Loses All Credibility*



Ballscientist said:


> under new cba, Knicks might have 8 mil over the cap. they need to dump Amare and Felton salaries to clear the cap space this season.
> 
> Nets have no assets to trade for Melo, it is great idea to make deal thru 5 other teams.


I mean, really?

You've become an even bigger joke with this post.


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: UPDATE: 'Melo is still in Denver...and KGMH Channel 7 Loses All Credibility*

Maybe the Knicks don't intend to sign Melo outright next offseason. There's no reason they can't pursue a sign-and-trade with whatever team he ends up on. The cost of doing that is probably less than trading with the Nuggets.


----------



## Dre

*Re: UPDATE: 'Melo is still in Denver...and KGMH Channel 7 Loses All Credibility*



kbdullah said:


> Maybe the Knicks don't intend to sign Melo outright next offseason. There's no reason they can't pursue a sign-and-trade with whatever team he ends up on. The cost of doing that is probably less than trading with the Nuggets.


So a team trades assets for Carmelo then trades him to a team who's assets were so low the Nuggets didn't want to deal with them in the first place? Makes sense.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: UPDATE: 'Melo is still in Denver...and KGMH Channel 7 Loses All Credibility*

Both Nets and Nuggets want nothing more than to see the Knicks wind up empty handed.

Next stars for Knicks would be Chris Paul.


----------



## HB

*Re: UPDATE: 'Melo is still in Denver...and KGMH Channel 7 Loses All Credibility*

The Nets arent going to do the Knicks any favors. Those two teams dont like each other.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: UPDATE: 'Melo is still in Denver...and KGMH Channel 7 Loses All Credibility*

Sources say Nuggets don't want Favors as a centerpiece. Nets will need to get another talent thru the third team.

Avery says Favors is the next Tim Duncan. It means Favors will lead a team to win 4 rings in the next 7 years.

How about Favors to Thunder?


----------



## Dissonance

*Re: UPDATE: 'Melo is still in Denver...and KGMH Channel 7 Loses All Credibility*



Ballscientist said:


> Sources say Nuggets don't want Favors as a centerpiece. Nets will need to get another talent thru the third team.
> 
> Avery says Favors is the next Tim Duncan. It means Favors will lead a team to win 4 rings in the next 7 years.
> 
> How about Favors to Thunder?


Give up already.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: UPDATE: 'Melo is still in Denver...and KGMH Channel 7 Loses All Credibility*

Mavs are working on the 4-way deal that would send Butler/Kevin Martin/picks/cash to Nuggets for Melo/Harrington.

Nuggets will make the playoffs next 5 years and Melo has a chance to stay with Mavs (6 years 150 mil contract).

Melo's agents will make tons of money comparing to Knicks offer next summer.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: UPDATE: 'Melo is still in Denver...and KGMH Channel 7 Loses All Credibility*

quote from CBS sports:
Houston fully expects to receive a disabled-player exception for Yao Ming totaling $5.8 million and already has a $6.3 million exception from the Trevor Ariza trade. Such exceptions can’t be combined, but individually they could be used to absorb a contract -- such as, for example, the Nuggets’ J.R. Smith’s or Harrington’s -- without sending equal money back. In return, the Rockets would either have to get a player they want or be compensated accordingly with draft picks or other assets. The Rockets also are flush with the expiring contracts of Shane Battier, Jared Jeffries, and even Yao, whose contract is insured due to his season-ending foot injury.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: UPDATE: 'Melo is still in Denver...and KGMH Channel 7 Loses All Credibility*

who dies in Melo's family, his mother, brother or sister?


----------



## Cris

*Sources: Nets, Nuggets 'further along'; 15 player trade rumored*



> The New Jersey Nets' attempts to acquire Denver's Carmelo Anthony are "further along" than any trade scenario that has been discussed since their near-acquisition of Anthony in late September, according to sources close to the negotiations.
> 
> A three-team deal involving the Detroit Pistons that would include at least 15 players -- with Rip Hamilton and Chauncey Billups winding up in New Jersey with Anthony -- could be completed as soon as this week, sources said.
> 
> The primary elements of the scenario currently on the table, sources said, call for New Jersey to acquire Anthony, Billups and Hamilton; Denver to land Devin Harris, Derrick Favors, Anthony Morrow and at least two first-round picks; and Detroit to acquire Troy Murphy and Johan Petro.
> http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/nba/news/story?id=6005596


...


----------



## Damian Necronamous

*Re: Sources: Nets, Nuggets 'further along'; 15 player trade rumored*

If Carmelo keeps on insisting he won't sign this extension (because everyone knows he wants to go to the Knicks), why the hell do the Nets keep pursuing this? I can only assume that Carmelo continues his refusal of the extension, and a deal never happens.

Why would the Nets trade Devin Harris, Favors, Morrow and two first rounders for Rip Hamilton and a four-month rental of Carmelo? Chauncey isn't going to go to the Nets - he'd want a buyout. Billups would probably then go sign with the Heat, and this will only end up terribly for everyone.


----------



## Vuchato

*Re: Sources: Nets, Nuggets 'further along'; 15 player trade rumored*



Damian Necronamous said:


> If Carmelo keeps on insisting he won't sign this extension (because everyone knows he wants to go to the Knicks), why the hell do the Nets keep pursuing this? I can only assume that Carmelo continues his refusal of the extension, and a deal never happens.
> 
> Why would the Nets trade Devin Harris, Favors, Morrow and two first rounders for Rip Hamilton and a four-month rental of Carmelo? Chauncey isn't going to go to the Nets - he'd want a buyout. Billups would probably then go sign with the Heat, and this will only end up terribly for everyone.


Apparently the Pistons were suggested by Rip's agent, who is also Melo's agent. Woj tweeted this a little while ago


> Would Melo's agent work so hard to get Rip in deal, only have to client refuse $65M contract in NJ? Melo does waffle, but seems unlikely.


http://twitter.com/#!/WojYahooNBA/status/24216343347732480


----------



## HB

*Re: Sources: Nets, Nuggets 'further along'; 15 player trade rumored*

They wont keep pushing the Nets if he wont sign the deal. I just dont know why this is still viable after it has dragged on for so long. I guess there are no other teams in the league that can put together a package for this guy.


----------



## Ron

*Re: Sources: Nets, Nuggets 'further along'; 15 player trade rumored*



HB said:


> They wont keep pushing the Nets if he wont sign the deal. I just dont know why this is still viable after it has dragged on for so long. I guess there are no other teams in the league that can put together a package for this guy.


Correct.

And 'Melo is going to have to understand this, or otherwise refuse all deals and take his chances with free agency.

Let's see if he wants to leave eight figures on the table in 2012 after the new CBA rips his heart out.

Even 'Melo ain't that stupid. I think.


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: Sources: Nets, Nuggets 'further along'; 15 player trade rumored*

Yeah what happens when Billups demands a buyout and Carmelo looks around and sees that he can't compete w/ just himself, Rip, and Lopez?


----------



## Diable

*Re: Sources: Nets, Nuggets 'further along'; 15 player trade rumored*

No real reason Denver doesn't do this. They aren't going to get a better offer. It's not really that great a deal for the Nets though. Even if you made the playoffs this season you're looking at a first round sweep. You come back with the same team next year and for all you know Rip and Billups are both toast by next season...best case would be like a fifth seed in the East with that roster if you got good play from those two guys.

It does give Melo a pretext to sign that extension before the work stoppage...And I believe that he's pretty much looking for a fig leaf right now.


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: Sources: Nets, Nuggets 'further along'; 15 player trade rumored*



Damian Necronamous said:


> Billups would probably then go sign with the Heat, and this will only end up terribly for everyone.


Billups wants to stay and retire in Denver, and eventually move into the front office. He grew up in Colorado, played high school ball there, and has his family settled in. And because he already has a ring, the pursuit of another one might mean less than you'd think.


----------



## MLKG

*Re: Sources: Nets, Nuggets 'further along'; 15 player trade rumored*

The team saying no to the current proposal is Detroit. They are supposed to be giving up Hamilton and a 1st round pick for Murphy and Petro, which they are rightfully laughing at.


----------



## HB

*Re: Sources: Nets, Nuggets 'further along'; 15 player trade rumored*

Thats not what Woj is saying



> Sources: Proposed deal is 'melo, billups, hamilton, carter to NJ for harris, favors, uzoh, graham and picks. Murphy and Petro to DET





> Detroit wants to take Petro with Murphy, but only sweetened with a first-round pick, source says.


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: Sources: Nets, Nuggets 'further along'; 15 player trade rumored*

I also heard that Detroit was being asked to give up their first.



> The Pistons are still talking with the Nets, but Vince Ellis of the Detroit Free-Press writes that the team rejected the initial offer for a three-team trade that would have sent Carmelo Anthony from Denver to New Jersey.
> 
> "The Pistons passed on an offer that would have sent Hamilton and a first-round draft pick to the Nets," Ellis wrote.
> 
> ...
> 
> Detroit won't give up a potential lottery pick in any deal and aren't interested in taking back the three years remaining on Petro's contract.


http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/71037/20110109/pistons_passed_on_initial_three_team_trade_offer/



> One key to the advancing nature of negotiations, sources said, is New Jersey and Denver's willingness to complete a trade without asking Detroit to surrender a first-round pick.


http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/71052/20110109/nets_nuggets_blockbuster_taking_shape/


----------



## Vuchato

*Re: Sources: Nets, Nuggets 'further along'; 15 player trade rumored*



kbdullah said:


> I also heard that Detroit was being asked to give up their first.
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/71037/20110109/pistons_passed_on_initial_three_team_trade_offer/
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/71052/20110109/nets_nuggets_blockbuster_taking_shape/


That was the Nets first idea, but I'm pretty sure thats changed. Sounds like its really close, but it was pretty close over the summer, too.


----------



## HB

*Re: Sources: Nets, Nuggets 'further along'; 15 player trade rumored*



> One front office executive says Melo is "on board" with signing w/ NJ if Nets get Detroit part done. "He wants to play with Rip" source says


See you in Joisey!


----------



## Cris

*Re: Sources: Nets, Nuggets 'further along'; 15 player trade rumored*



HB said:


> See you in Joisey!



:whofarted


----------



## Wade County

*Re: Sources: Nets, Nuggets 'further along'; 15 player trade rumored*

Anyone else find the "he wants to play with Rip" line a load of crap?


----------



## 29380

*Re: Sources: Nets, Nuggets 'further along'; 15 player trade rumored*

More like he wants his 65 million.


----------



## MemphisX

*Re: Sources: Nets, Nuggets 'further along'; 15 player trade rumored*

Denver is going to get one hell of a reload pack from this trade. Favors is going to be on the same level as Melo or a notch below and they can still flip Devin/Morrow.


----------



## OneBadLT123

*Re: Sources: Nets, Nuggets 'further along'; 15 player trade rumored*



Wade County said:


> Anyone else find the "he wants to play with Rip" line a load of crap?


Yeeeeeaaaah I am going to have to agree. It just smells like BS


----------



## HB

*Re: Sources: Nets, Nuggets 'further along'; 15 player trade rumored*



MemphisX said:


> Denver is going to get one hell of a reload pack from this trade. Favors is going to be on the same level as Melo or a notch below and they can still flip Devin/Morrow.


:laugh:


----------



## Adam

*Re: Sources: Nets, Nuggets 'further along'; 15 player trade rumored*



MemphisX said:


> Denver is going to get one hell of a reload pack from this trade. Favors is going to be on the same level as Melo or a notch below and they can still flip Devin/Morrow.


This reminds me of when Kobe wanted to go to Chicago but Chicago would be giving up too much to make the deal worthwhile. I don't understand why Melo would want to go to New Jersey if they're gutting their entire roster.


----------



## Wade2Bosh

*Re: Sources: Nets, Nuggets 'further along'; 15 player trade rumored*



> @WallaceHeatNBA Certainly entertaining, that's before you even get to Kim Kardashian, Maria Sharapova, LaLa Vazquez & Beyonce in the crowd!


Quite a crowd :laugh:



> dempseypost Chris Dempsey
> by SpearsNBAYahoo
> Shelden Williams starts in place of KMart. Other Nuggets starters are Melo, Nene, Arron Afflalo and Chauncey Billups.


Melo, Billups and Williams starting so the trade might not be that close just yet.


----------



## garnett

*Re: Sources: Nets, Nuggets 'further along'; 15 player trade rumored*

"He wants to play with Rip"

:rotf:


----------



## 29380

*Re: Sources: Nets, Nuggets 'further along'; 15 player trade rumored*



> WojYahooNBA Nuggets official insists they never agreed to deal pending NJ-DET arrangement for Petro. "People are trying to pressure us," source tells Y!


..


----------



## Diable

*Re: Sources: Nets, Nuggets 'further along'; 15 player trade rumored*

Aldridge is saying Melo isn't ready to agree to an extension. He's playing like he doesn't give a damn last couple of games. So there's no way this trade goes through if he isn't going to stay with the Nets...I don't think Melo is going there with this trade because the Nets wouldn't be that good a team under this scenario. If that's his thinking he's right too.


----------



## Floods

*Re: Sources: Nets, Nuggets 'further along'; 15 player trade rumored*

I'm not sure what I find funnier. Melo lobbying to play with Rip, or the Nets/Nuggets actually asking Detroit to cough up Hamilton and a 1st rounder that they really need, for Troy ****ing Murphy and Johan ****ing Petro. Dumars isn't THAT stupid, is he?


----------



## zagsfan20

*Re: Sources: Nets, Nuggets 'further along'; 15 player trade rumored*

Rumors are that the Blazers might get involved and land Harris in return for Andre Miller.


----------



## Floods

*Re: Sources: Nets, Nuggets 'further along'; 15 player trade rumored*



zagsfan20 said:


> Rumors are that the Blazers might get involved and land Harris in return for Andre Miller.


Unless the Blazers are completely focused on life without Roy (or a very diminished Roy), which is very possible, there's not a whole lot of point to that IMO. Harris is signed on for two more years than Miller at a higher salary, requires the ball more than Miller, can't distribute like Miller, and isn't much of an outside shooter either.


----------



## zagsfan20

*Re: Sources: Nets, Nuggets 'further along'; 15 player trade rumored*



Floods said:


> Unless the Blazers are completely focused on life without Roy (or a very diminished Roy), which is very possible, there's not a whole lot of point to that IMO. Harris is signed on for two more years than Miller at a higher salary, requires the ball more than Miller, can't distribute like Miller, and isn't much of an outside shooter either.


I think they've moved past the point of basing the offense around Roy ISO's.


----------



## 29380

*Re: Sources: Nets, Nuggets 'further along'; 15 player trade rumored*



> nuggetsnews Melo just said "I don't see it happening" in reference to the trade, but he wouldn't talk about timetable





> christomasson Asked if this was his last Nuggets game, Melo said. "Not at all. Not at all. Not at all. Not at all.''
> Melo: "I haven't heard anything on that... Speculation as of right now. So Masai and Josh aren't here... I don't see that happening.''


...


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Sources: Nets, Nuggets 'further along'; 15 player trade rumored*

Nuggets get robbed on this deal. You don't trade superstars for a few average players or bad players.

It makes more sense to Nuggets if Pistons can send unprotected first round to Nuggets and the fourth team send Pistons a valuable player.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Sources: Nets, Nuggets 'further along'; 15 player trade rumored*

I'm still saying Melo's team in 11-12 or whenever will be the Knicks until it isn't.


----------



## LA68

*Re: Sources: Nets, Nuggets 'further along'; 15 player trade rumored*



Dre™ said:


> I'm still saying Melo's team in 11-12 or whenever will be the Knicks until it isn't.


Did it really take 38 pages to get to this point ?

If I were Melo:

1) I would know E Curry and Azubuike are coming off the Knicks books. I know the cap will change drastically but, as it stands, that's about 14 million for Melo. I think that's enough to get him. 

2) Anybody notice Lopez numbers coming down ? Humphries is the PF to take you to the playoffs ???

3) Rip was good but, can't be the basis of a team anymore. Chauncey already said he will take a buyout if traded from Denver. Do you really want to call his bluff ?

4) New York is winning now with what they have. Imagine adding Melo to help out. Nets are losing about the same as last year. 

5) Would I want to play for a team that gave $10 mill to Petro and $28 mill to Outlaw ?? What does that say about the management, decision making and talent evaluation ??

6) Madison Square Garden vs. Future unbuilt stadium ?? (I live in a town where stadiums take 35 years to get built.)

7) I think the choice is clear. Melo will leave the Nets high and dry. And they'll cry like Cleveland and sink back to the bottom.


----------



## LA68

*Re: Sources: Nets, Nuggets 'further along'; 15 player trade rumored*

If this deal goes down, Can anyone think of an idea why anyone should buy Nugget or Piston season tickets ??

Old man TMac is your most dynamic player ? Your lineup: Wallace, Charlie V, TMac, Gordon, Stuckey...does any of these guys do anything from within 15ft of the basket ?

Where would Nene and Lawson take you ? Morrow would sit behind Smith and Afflalo. Favors can't get time over Murphy and Humphries. But, now he can start ?? 

That Orl-Wash-Phx trade made sense all the way around. This one makes none.


----------



## MLKG

*Re: Sources: Nets, Nuggets 'further along'; 15 player trade rumored*



LA68 said:


> If this deal goes down, Can anyone think of an idea why anyone should buy Nugget or Piston season tickets ??


Well they are definately not buying them for Rip Hamilton.


----------



## NOFX22

*Re: Sources: Nets, Nuggets 'further along'; 15 player trade rumored*

If I'm the nuggets I would just let him walk and save the cap space from Melo expiring...cuz that proposal is garbage! Force Melo to lose millions cuz what he did to the nuggets franchise...


----------



## 29380

*Re: Sources: Nets, Nuggets 'further along'; 15 player trade rumored*



> Chauncey's hesitation to go to NJ not a factor. Billups will get full $14 mill next season from NJ. That was his main concern.
> 3 minutes ago via Echofon
> NJ will give Detroit a draft pick for taking Petro, not determined whether 1st or 2nd rounder yet.
> 5 minutes ago via Echofon
> NJ could try to recruit s 4th team to take Harrington, but their hope is that Den eliminates Harrington request.
> 7 minutes ago via Echofon
> Holdup to NJ-Den-Det trade is that Den wants NJ to take Al Harrington. NJ doesn't want to b/c Al has 4 yrs, $28 mill left on deal.
> 8 minutes ago via Echofon


http://twitter.com/Chris_Broussard


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Sources: Nets, Nuggets 'further along'; 15 player trade rumored*



LA68 said:


> Did it really take 38 pages to get to this point ?
> 
> If I were Melo:
> 
> 1) I would know E Curry and Azubuike are coming off the Knicks books. I know the cap will change drastically but, as it stands, that's about 14 million for Melo. I think that's enough to get him.


Unless you expect the cap to increase under the new CBA, the Knicks aren't going to have $14 million. They're going to need to renounce Wilson Chandler and find an under the cap team to take Turiaf to get there. And then they'd need to wait another year to add roleplayers. If they really want Anthony they're going to have to bite the bullet and trade for him.


----------



## GNG

*Re: Sources: Nets, Nuggets 'further along'; 15 player trade rumored*



Wade2Bosh said:


> @WallaceHeatNBA Certainly entertaining, that's before you even get to Kim Kardashian, Maria Sharapova, LaLa Vazquez & Beyonce in the crowd!
> 
> 
> 
> Quite a crowd :laugh:
Click to expand...

Might as well sign Marko Jaric, too.


----------



## MemphisX

*Re: Sources: Nets, Nuggets 'further along'; 15 player trade rumored*

Derrick Favors is a good return on Melo...anything else is gravy...plus they are shedding a lot of money if they can get rid of Billups, Harrington and Balkman. Then all they will need to drop is Birdmsn and they are set for rebuilding cheaply.

Team should be ready as the Lakers, Spurs and Mavs fade into oblivion. 

They have no shot right now.


----------



## Damian Necronamous

*Re: Sources: Nets, Nuggets 'further along'; 15 player trade rumored*

Denver is definitely looking to deal J.R. Smith if this goes down and they receive Anthony Morrow. Harrington and Birdman would also likely be shopped. Honestly, I don't think they should look to deal Harris simply because they have Lawson. I can see those two being able to play together, and their speed could really cause opposing teams some problems.

Devin Harris
Ty Lawson
Anthony Morrow
Derrick Favors
Nene
A crapload of First Round Picks

The Nuggets have nothing to be ashamed of if that's what they come out of this season with.


----------



## Damian Necronamous

*Re: Sources: Nets, Nuggets 'further along'; 15 player trade rumored*

Hey, here's a question...if the Nets sign 'Melo to this extension, would the Knicks then look to deal Eddy Curry's expiring for some immediate help? Or, would they hang onto it and hope for a guy like David West this summer?

I could see them pursuing Andre Iguodala, Antawn Jamison, Stephen Jackson or Al Harrington.


----------



## MemphisX

*Re: Sources: Nets, Nuggets 'further along'; 15 player trade rumored*

I think the Knicks look to flip Curry/Randolph for another player. Once Melo is settled, the floodgates should open.


----------



## Hyperion

*Re: Sources: Nets, Nuggets 'further along'; 15 player trade rumored*

Lockout looming will kill all FA this summer. If Anthony is smart, he needs to lock in money now in order to avoid a much smaller deal later.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Sources: Nets, Nuggets 'further along'; 15 player trade rumored*



Hyperion said:


> Lockout looming will kill all FA this summer. If Anthony is smart, he needs to lock in money now in order to avoid a much smaller deal later.


Melo don't care about money. He could give up 6 years 136 million contract and sign 1 year 3 million MLE with Knicks.


----------



## ChosenFEW

*Re: Sources: Nets, Nuggets 'further along'; 15 player trade rumored*

you know whats funny.... melo didn't sign those deals that wade bosh and lebron signed a couple years ago that made them FA last year.... he instead took his 100 mill extension... funny how now he wants out and is doing it at the worst possible time....


also, the nets will just become the nuggets of the east.... dont see why that is worth giving up so many draft picks


----------



## Hyperion

*Re: Sources: Nets, Nuggets 'further along'; 15 player trade rumored*



Ballscientist said:


> Melo don't care about money. He could give up 6 years 136 million contract and sign 1 year 3 million MLE with Knicks.


Bad time for FA. Cannot make deal with team since no cap to sign. Europe is best option with lockout season.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Sources: Nets, Nuggets 'further along'; 15 player trade rumored*



LA68 said:


> Did it really take 38 pages to get to this point ?
> 
> If I were Melo:
> 
> 1) I would know E Curry and Azubuike are coming off the Knicks books. I know the cap will change drastically but, as it stands, that's about 14 million for Melo. I think that's enough to get him.
> 
> 2) Anybody notice Lopez numbers coming down ? Humphries is the PF to take you to the playoffs ???
> 
> 3) Rip was good but, can't be the basis of a team anymore. Chauncey already said he will take a buyout if traded from Denver. Do you really want to call his bluff ?
> 
> 4) New York is winning now with what they have. Imagine adding Melo to help out. Nets are losing about the same as last year.
> 
> 5) Would I want to play for a team that gave $10 mill to Petro and $28 mill to Outlaw ?? What does that say about the management, decision making and talent evaluation ??
> 
> 6) Madison Square Garden vs. Future unbuilt stadium ?? (I live in a town where stadiums take 35 years to get built.)
> 
> 7) I think the choice is clear. Melo will leave the Nets high and dry. And they'll cry like Cleveland and sink back to the bottom.


I've been saying this everytime the topic was brought up. 

People think Carmelo cares about the upcoming reduced salary but he doesn't. He's already dealing with disposable income, and I'm sure the amateur accountants will come on here and debate this, and whether he's an idiot for not signing or not is his problem, but the fact of the matter is he's content to sit it out and just sign with New York.

I think at this point there's just too much haggling going on, everyday a team in the deal wakes up wanting more, from the picks, to Petro, to now Al Harrington and other teams wanting to jump in for Harris...eventually things will fall apart. 

I will say though if Melo does end up going to Jersey, Walsh is no dummy he'll be right on the horn a half hour later shopping Curry and Randolph. 

You have to realize the Nuggets are dealing with a first year front office, so they're really hesitant and unsure of what they want to do. This whole situation was mismanaged from the get go, Carmelo waited too late to toss his hat in the ring, if he was smart he would've done it back in July and he'd be on a new team with his contract already.


----------



## MemphisX

*Re: Sources: Nets, Nuggets 'further along'; 15 player trade rumored*

Melo is not giving up $80 million is the bag just so he can go to an organization that has not been relevant in his lifetime. We are not talking about the Cs or Lakers here. 

You can fool yourself of you want but if Minnesota traded for Melo, he would find a way to rationalize signing that extension. 

No player is going into this offseason buck naked if they get a chance to cover themselves.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Sources: Nets, Nuggets 'further along'; 15 player trade rumored*

We will see. 

And you can rationalize what he thinks about the Knicks but it's his decision, obviously he does hold them in regard or he would've left for the Nets the second the deal was brought up.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Sources: Nets, Nuggets 'further along'; 15 player trade rumored*



Dre™;6456108 said:


> You have to realize the Nuggets are dealing with a first year front office, so they're really hesitant and unsure of what they want to do. This whole situation was mismanaged from the get go, Carmelo waited too late to toss his hat in the ring, if he was smart he would've done it back in July and he'd be on a new team with his contract already.


It has nothing to do with a first year front office. There's just no incentive for the Nuggets to give Anthony away. If they give him away for low firsts they lose millions in playoff revenue _and_ have to pay the salaries of waste products like Eddy Curry in the bargain. 

The new cap will go down and Knicks have $42 million committed for next season. If Carmelo wants to sign in New York he won't be getting near what Bosh got, and for Denver, where the Knicks are concerned, they're better off bleeding every dime they can out of Carmelo now and rebuilding after because there's a zero percent chance that they're going to find someone that good with a bunch of low #1s.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Sources: Nets, Nuggets 'further along'; 15 player trade rumored*



E.H. Munro said:


> It has nothing to do with a first year front office. There's just no incentive for the Nuggets to give Anthony away. If they give him away for low firsts they lose millions in playoff revenue _and_ have to pay the salaries of waste products like Eddy Curry in the bargain.


It has a lot to do with the front office. A smart front office would've given him his extension then traded him for full value. This one didn't. First Kroenke went to the Knicks, then he tried to see if he could smooth things out with Melo, now he's talking to the Nets for the second time..when the best option was the easiest and most accessible one. 

So now you're dealing with a lame duck player that immediately diminishes the market to one desperate team that he might not even want to go to. Bravo



> The new cap will go down and Knicks have $42 million committed for next season. If Carmelo wants to sign in New York he won't be getting near what Bosh got, and for Denver, where the Knicks are concerned, they're better off bleeding every dime they can out of Carmelo now and rebuilding after because there's a zero percent chance that they're going to find someone that good with a bunch of low #1s.


What does low 1sts have to do with anything, what are you talking about here


----------



## Hyperion

*Re: Sources: Nets, Nuggets 'further along'; 15 player trade rumored*

Who here has been abusing the hell out of the NBA Trade Machine because of this deal?


----------



## Bogg

*Re: Sources: Nets, Nuggets 'further along'; 15 player trade rumored*



E.H. Munro said:


> there's a zero percent chance that they're going to find someone that good with a bunch of low #1s.


This is exactly what has had me confused about the Nuggets eagerness to deal with the Nets instead of the Knicks - Gallo, Chandler, and Fields are all more valuable than mid to low firsts(or they should be, at least). Each of those players is a proven commodity who, while not a franchise guy you can build a roster around, you can feel good about putting in a contenders' lineup. The guessing game that is the late first round leaves you hoping to pick a guy like Gallo or Chandler and feeling very lucky if you do. I understand the appeal of Favors, but if you can get a good combination of the legitimate young talents the Knicks have and prospects that haven't produced yet(Mozgov, Randolph) it could make for a better overall package.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Sources: Nets, Nuggets 'further along'; 15 player trade rumored*

So you don't understand why they wanted Favors and Harris instead of three roleplayers?


----------



## Hyperion

*Re: Sources: Nets, Nuggets 'further along'; 15 player trade rumored*



Bogg said:


> This is exactly what has had me confused about the Nuggets eagerness to deal with the Nets instead of the Knicks - Gallo, Chandler, and Fields are all more valuable than mid to low firsts(or they should be, at least). Each of those players is a proven commodity who, while not a franchise guy you can build a roster around, you can feel good about putting in a contenders' lineup. The guessing game that is the late first round leaves you hoping to pick a guy like Gallo or Chandler and feeling very lucky if you do. I understand the appeal of Favors, but if you can get a good combination of the legitimate young talents the Knicks have and prospects that haven't produced yet(Mozgov, Randolph) it could make for a better overall package.


Fields is going to be a freaking stud!


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Sources: Nets, Nuggets 'further along'; 15 player trade rumored*

3 reasons the deal may not go down this week:

1. Melo will hold up for a few days so that Knicks/Bulls have a chance to figure it out;

2. Nets may not take 3 extra overpaid contracts (big paycheck) in Harrington, Hamilton, billups;

3. Nuggets owner (old guy) may hold a few days because they do not get enough talents.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: Sources: Nets, Nuggets 'further along'; 15 player trade rumored*



Dre™ said:


> So you don't understand why they wanted Favors and Harris instead of three roleplayers?


When they already have a really good point guard prospect in Lawson? Favors hasn't shown much this year aside from the ability to dunk really hard when he's wide open. He's probably the best prospect in the bunch(I think Gallo could be dangerous if he puts it all together) but he's also shown the least, by far. So no, I don't think the gulf in return between a major prospect coupled with a redundant starter vs three starters is wide enough to justify completely discounting trade talks with the second team.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Sources: Nets, Nuggets 'further along'; 15 player trade rumored*



Ballscientist said:


> 3 reasons the deal may not go down this week:
> 
> 1. Melo will hold up for a few days so that Knicks/Bulls have a chance to figure it out;


Nothing to figure out. The Knicks already stepped to the Nuggets and the Nuggets aren't interested in anything they have, period.



> 2. Nets may not take 3 extra overpaid contracts (big paycheck) in Harrington, Hamilton, billups;


If they get Melo they're already in go mode, Hamilton and Billups' contracts only last 3 and 2 more years respectively, in which time they'll need vets like them to compete anyway. Rip should be good for the duration, Billups is already declining a bit but he should be hidden ala Kidd because he's big and can guard 2s.



> 3. Nuggets owner (old guy) may hold a few days because they do not get enough talents.


This deal is already better than the Nuggets though they could ever get. A true player to build around, a scorer in Harris, Morrow..who knows what else.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Sources: Nets, Nuggets 'further along'; 15 player trade rumored*



Bogg said:


> When they already have a really good point guard prospect in Lawson? Favors hasn't shown much this year aside from the ability to dunk really hard when he's wide open. He's probably the best prospect in the bunch(I think Gallo could be dangerous if he puts it all together) but he's also shown the least, by far.


He's 19 and playing for a coach that doesn't even like young players. Not to mention big men typically require the most growth. Let's not act like he wasn't just the third overall pick in a fairly strong draft. Gallinari and such are all good players, but they're pointless for the Nuggets, that would be a recipe for 35 wins and draft purgatory.

The Nuggets are looking to rebuild with this one, and Favors gives them the opportunity to do that.



> So no, I don't think the gulf in return between a major prospect coupled with a redundant starter vs three starters is wide enough to justify completely discounting trade talks with the second team.


You're not looking at the comparision right. When you're bulding a team, a major prospect is what you need to build around, not three solid starters. 

The Nuggets are looking to start over, what the Knicks offer just isn't conducive to that, period.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: Sources: Nets, Nuggets 'further along'; 15 player trade rumored*



Dre™ said:


> He's 19 and playing for a coach that doesn't even like young players. Not to mention big men typically require the most growth. Let's not act like he wasn't just the third overall pick in a fairly strong draft. Gallinari and such are all good players, but they're pointless for the Nuggets, that would be a recipe for 35 wins and draft purgatory.
> 
> The Nuggets are looking to rebuild with this one, and Favors gives them the opportunity to do that.


Favors certainly has a high ceiling, but there's also the possibility that he's Stromile Swift. Avery has actually been very positive towards him in the media and has given Favors all the playing time he can handle, so it isn't as though the coaching staff has been holding him back or hindering his development. He's extremely raw and about as far from a sure thing as a guy with his potential gets. I still think he probably winds up the best player out of all the prospects mentioned, but it isn't like we're talking about a sure-fire all-star here. 

Gallo's no slouch either, he was recently taken sixth in a strong draft and has the potential to be a less athletic Paul Pierce, a big, strong forward with range out beyond the three point line and help out on the boards. The overall package the Knicks can put together is worth at least considering, if the Nuggets are pushing for Favors, whatever they can flip Harris for, and late firsts. 




Dre™ said:


> You're not looking at the comparision right. When you're bulding a team, a major prospect is what you need to build around, not three solid starters.
> 
> The Nuggets are looking to start over, what the Knicks offer just isn't conducive to that, period.


It isn't as simple as springing for the prospect with the highest ceiling. A big, young, athletic forward is highly appealing, and New Jersey very well may wind up putting together the most attractive package However, he's not a lock to pan out, and the Nuggets are going to be bad enough to get a few high picks no matter who they trade Melo to. It still strikes me as foolish to take the "Favors or bust" approach to moving Melo.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Sources: Nets, Nuggets 'further along'; 15 player trade rumored*



Bogg said:


> Favors certainly has a high ceiling, but there's also the possibility that he's Stromile Swift. Avery has actually been very positive towards him in the media and has given Favors all the playing time he can handle, so it isn't as though the coaching staff has been holding him back or hindering his development. He's extremely raw and about as far from a sure thing as a guy with his potential gets. I still think he probably winds up the best player out of all the prospects mentioned, but it isn't like we're talking about a sure-fire all-star here.
> 
> Gallo's no slouch either, he was recently taken sixth in a strong draft and has the potential to be a less athletic Paul Pierce, a big, strong forward with range out beyond the three point line and help out on the boards. The overall package the Knicks can put together is worth at least considering, if the Nuggets are pushing for Favors, whatever they can flip Harris for, and late firsts.


I mean what are you really saying. At the end of the day the Nuggets can "consider" it, and reject it. The Knicks are *not* offering anything better than the Nets considering the Nuggets' desires, but if it's your opinion otherwise, we can agree to disagree.



> It isn't as simple as springing for the prospect with the highest ceiling. A big, young, athletic forward is highly appealing, and New Jersey very well may wind up putting together the most attractive package However, he's not a lock to pan out, and the Nuggets are going to be bad enough to get a few high picks no matter who they trade Melo to. It still strikes me as foolish to take the "Favors or bust" approach to moving Melo.


Favors isn't a lock, no, but he's also the best option for the Nuggets at this point. Like I mentioned earlier they handcuffed themselves by not offering Carmelo the extension, now they're dealing with a limited market. They could've given Carmelo the extension and gotten him to sign it by saying without saying they would then trade him.

Instead though it's a limited situation for player and team.


----------



## HB

*Re: Sources: Nets, Nuggets 'further along'; 15 player trade rumored*

The Nuggets will make out like bandits when all is said and done, but Prokhorov really wants his star going to Brooklyn.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Sources: Nets, Nuggets 'further along'; 15 player trade rumored*

Not enough

Monday afternoon sources say Nuggets insist they want Nicolas Batum from Blazers.

Batum + Favors = 50% of Melo

It is getting closer if Nets can help with Batum and Harrington deal.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Sources: Nets, Nuggets 'further along'; 15 player trade rumored*



Dre™ said:


> It has a lot to do with the front office. A smart front office would've given him his extension then traded him for full value. This one didn't. First Kroenke went to the Knicks, then he tried to see if he could smooth things out with Melo, now he's talking to the Nets for the second time..when the best option was the easiest and most accessible one.


They offered him an extension long before they talked to the Knicks. Anthony just declined to sign it. The Knicks have been resorting to lowball offers since. And there's zero motivation for Denver to pay Eddy Curry's salary for the privilege of losing millions in playoff revenue.



Bogg said:


> This is exactly what has had me confused about the Nuggets eagerness to deal with the Nets instead of the Knicks - Gallo, Chandler, and Fields are all more valuable than mid to low firsts(or they should be, at least). Each of those players is a proven commodity who, while not a franchise guy you can build a roster around, you can feel good about putting in a contenders' lineup. The guessing game that is the late first round leaves you hoping to pick a guy like Gallo or Chandler and feeling very lucky if you do. I understand the appeal of Favors, but if you can get a good combination of the legitimate young talents the Knicks have and prospects that haven't produced yet(Mozgov, Randolph) it could make for a better overall package.


The Knicks, by all reports, have been low-balling the Nuggets confident that they'll end up with Anthony anyway. Take 'Melo off Denver's roster, though, and I don't think the roleplayers help them long-term. Given the overall ****tiness of 2011 draft, they're probably better off with the playoffs this year and sucking next in front of a much better draft.


----------



## 29380

*Re: Sources: Nets, Nuggets 'further along'; 15 player trade rumored*

I don't understand why the Trailblazers would trade Batum for Harris.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Sources: Nets, Nuggets 'further along'; 15 player trade rumored*



E.H. Munro said:


> They offered him an extension long before they talked to the Knicks. Anthony just declined to sign it. The Knicks have been resorting to lowball offers since. And there's zero motivation for Denver to pay Eddy Curry's salary for the privilege of losing millions in playoff revenue.


If they offered it now while saying without saying they'd still look to trade him that would open up their market, which is my point. 

The motivation for Denver to pay Curry's salary would be not having to pay it this year instead of a Devin Harris' who will lead you to 32 wins. But we're in agreement the Knicks don't have enough.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Sources: Nets, Nuggets 'further along'; 15 player trade rumored*



Knicks4life said:


> I don't understand why the Trailblazers would trade Batum for Harris.



Pistons give unprotected first rounder to Blazers in order to help Nets.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: Sources: Nets, Nuggets 'further along'; 15 player trade rumored*



Dre™ said:


> I mean what are you really saying. At the end of the day the Nuggets can "consider" it, and reject it. The Knicks are *not* offering anything better than the Nets considering the Nuggets' desires, but if it's your opinion otherwise, we can agree to disagree.


What I'm saying is that the Nuggets have seemed very keen on working out a deal with the Nets with little indication they're even interested in any of the Knicks players. If, in actuality, the Nuggets have been having extensive talks with the Knicks and NY simply refuses to be reasonable then that's one thing, but I just don't think that Favors is sure-fire enough to say we _gotta_ have him. 

To be clear: I'm not saying Favors isn't worth trading for - he may wind up an excellent player - but he hasn't shown enough to exclude pursuing other players as well(specifically the Knicks guys). 



E.H. Munro said:


> The Knicks, by all reports, have been low-balling the Nuggets confident that they'll end up with Anthony anyway. Take 'Melo off Denver's roster, though, and I don't think the roleplayers help them long-term. Given the overall ****tiness of 2011 draft, they're probably better off with the playoffs this year and sucking next in front of a much better draft.


From what I've read and heard, though, the Nuggets don't really want what the Knicks have anyway. Maybe I'm way too high on guys like Gallinari and Fields, but I genuinely think you can roll with those two on the wing for the next 7 years and compete, given the right franchise guy and surrounding players. Also, let's be honest, a team built around Lawson, Fields, and Gallo is going to be bad enough to get a top five pick next year anyway, the only difference is that when you get that top prospect you have players to surround him with. If they just let Melo walk at the end of the year for cap space you get a situation like Cleveland this year, where not only is the team bad, but the fans don't even have a good young guy to root for individually. Al Jefferson's emergence as a nightly double-double is what got me through the 06-07 season.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Sources: Nets, Nuggets 'further along'; 15 player trade rumored*

From all reports it's just Randolph & Chandler for 'Melo. Even adding Gallinari doesn't really help matters. They're all roleplayers, and you have to sacrifice all your cap space to keep those roleplayers, leaving them at the mercy of the draft. At least Favors has a ton of upside.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: Sources: Nets, Nuggets 'further along'; 15 player trade rumored*



E.H. Munro said:


> From all reports it's just Randolph & Chandler for 'Melo. Even adding Gallinari doesn't really help matters. They're all roleplayers, and you have to sacrifice all your cap space to keep those roleplayers, leaving them at the mercy of the draft. At least Favors has a ton of upside.


Fair enough, but if they could dump Harrington and Anderson they really wouldn't have any cap obligations of note, retaining Gallo and the like wouldn't kill their chances at making a move in free agency. Favors is the best prospect, but if you can get a few starters, coupled with the resulting high pick or two and cap space, that's not a bad start. I suppose it boils down to how much you like Favors' future: I've been scared off from franchise guy aspirations by his timid play, but it's possible I've been "poisoned" on him by seeing too much of him this early.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Sources: Nets, Nuggets 'further along'; 15 player trade rumored*

This trade proposal could die if Nets are able to get Batum for Nuggets or are unable to find someone to take Harrington contract.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Sources: Nets, Nuggets 'further along'; 15 player trade rumored*



Bogg said:


> What I'm saying is that the Nuggets have seemed very keen on working out a deal with the Nets with little indication they're even interested in any of the Knicks players. If, in actuality, the Nuggets have been having extensive talks with the Knicks and NY simply refuses to be reasonable then that's one thing, but I just don't think that Favors is sure-fire enough to say we _gotta_ have him.
> 
> To be clear: I'm not saying Favors isn't worth trading for - he may wind up an excellent player - but he hasn't shown enough to exclude pursuing other players as well(specifically the Knicks guys).


It's not about the Nets having tunnel vision, it's about a limited market, two choices, and not desiring one of them. Pretty simple.


----------



## Xeneise

*Re: Sources: Nets, Nuggets 'further along'; 15 player trade rumored*

Wilson Chandler is 23 years old and averaging 17.8ppg, 6.4rpg, 1.8apg, 1.5bpg on 49%/37%/81%c in 35mpg

Derrick Favors is 19 years old and averaging 6.7ppg, 5.1rpg, 0.1 apg, and 0.6bpg on 56%/61% in 19mpg.


I understand Favors has a very high ceiling, and he's a better prospect to trade for, but why is everyone treating Wilson Chandler like a scrub?


----------



## GNG

*Re: Sources: Nets, Nuggets 'further along'; 15 player trade rumored*

The funniest part of the proposal is New Jersey and Denver are so eager to shed Johan Petro and Al Harrington's contracts not even three months into them. I don't know anyone who said, "Oh yeah, Johan Petro for $10 million...good move."


----------



## HB

*Re: Sources: Nets, Nuggets 'further along'; 15 player trade rumored*

What's so great about the Knicks anyways? Amare is a great guy to play with, but with Prokhorov in charge its not like the Nets will be hurting financially. They'll attract other guys to come play with Melo and Lopez.

P.s. what do people see in Favors that they think he has a high ceiling? Scratching my head on that one.


----------



## JonMatrix

*Re: Sources: Nets, Nuggets 'further along'; 15 player trade rumored*



HB said:


> P.s. what do people see in Favors that they think he has a high ceiling? Scratching my head on that one.


A young big man with a lot of athleticism who is raw offensively, which is better for Denver to get than losing Carmelo for nothing. Some people think he can be the next Dwight Howard, but he's got a long ways to go with his conditioning. Not that he is out of shape, but Dwight Howard is one of the most well conditioned bigs in the league. I haven't seen enough of Favors to say if he will end up as good of a rebounder as Dwight either. Of course, Favors could end up being the next Chris Wilcox as well. Regardless, Avery Johnson probably isn't the best coach for him to have as he tends to prefer veterans.

Of course if Denver gets Favors back in the Carmelo trade, then they will probably shop Kenyon Martin and possibly Nene as well.


----------



## Wade County

*Re: Sources: Nets, Nuggets 'further along'; 15 player trade rumored*

Yeah, that Petro move was an alltime shocker.

What I find funny is all the people that loved New Jersey grabbing Morrow and laughed at GSW getting Dorell Wright for the same price. Offseasons are funny.


----------



## HB

*Re: Sources: Nets, Nuggets 'further along'; 15 player trade rumored*

Wow this is some straight up goonery



> Y! Sources: Denver threatens New Jersey: Unless tone changes in 'Melo talks, watch us trade him to Knicks. http://tinyurl.com/4hyje8y


----------



## Cris

*Re: Sources: Nets, Nuggets 'further along'; 15 player trade rumored*

lololololol


----------



## Dissonance

*Re: Sources: Nets, Nuggets 'further along'; 15 player trade rumored*

lol, that's awesome.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Sources: Nets, Nuggets 'further along'; 15 player trade rumored*

Sunday - reported one inch away to get the deal done;

Monday - my source says it is 500 miles away;

Tuesday - I predict 3000 miles away.

Batum is a key part for this deal. Nuggets are waiting for Nets to submit a proposal. This trade will not go down if they can't find John Petro and Al Harrington taker.


----------



## OneBadLT123

*Re: Sources: Nets, Nuggets 'further along'; 15 player trade rumored*

I just wish this stupid drawn out drama of a trade for one of the most overrated players in NBA history would finally end.

Is it me, or has the internet age of "news" killed journalism? I mean before, you heard about trade rumors through the occasional local TV/radio news, and found out only when things were made official.

Now it seems so many ****ing ass backwards "sources" are claiming this and that without any relevant source with their intent being for you to click and follow their twitter. So many conflicting and fake information is just thrown around now. I mean seriously here we are falling for it.

One week/month its close to being done, next it isn't. What is it going to be next month? Its just stupid now

It boggles my mind


----------



## futuristxen

*Re: Sources: Nets, Nuggets 'further along'; 15 player trade rumored*

Yeah it's almost as bad as the speculation "Journalism" about where Lebron was going this summer. Too many pundits, not enough journalists. And yet in the end, somehow Stephen A. Smith was right. 

Quick someone go ask him.


----------



## Wade County

*Re: Sources: Nets, Nuggets 'further along'; 15 player trade rumored*

And yet one thing remains consistent: Ballscientist :laugh:.

I get what you're saying though OnebadLT - its like everyone repeats the same crap until everyone thinks it's reality. Chafes me.


----------



## Ron

*Re: Sources: Nets, Nuggets 'further along'; 15 player trade rumored*



OneBadLT123 said:


> I just wish this stupid drawn out drama of a trade for one of the most overrated players in NBA history would finally end.
> 
> Is it me, or has the internet age of "news" killed journalism? I mean before, you heard about trade rumors through the occasional local TV/radio news, and found out only when things were made official.
> 
> Now it seems so many ****ing ass backwards "sources" are claiming this and that without any relevant source with their intent being for you to click and follow their twitter. So many conflicting and fake information is just thrown around now. I mean seriously here we are falling for it.
> 
> One week/month its close to being done, next it isn't. What is it going to be next month? Its just stupid now
> 
> It boggles my mind


My source tells me you are having a hard time adjusting to changes in technology. 

Seriously, I just have fun with it. Anyone will quote any ****ing source just to get some airplay. Hey, you never know...maybe they will be right 10% of the time and then claim victory.


----------



## Ron

*Re: Sources: Nets, Nuggets 'further along'; 15 player trade rumored*



futuristxen said:


> Yeah it's almost as bad as the speculation "Journalism" about where Lebron was going this summer. Too many pundits, not enough journalists. And yet in the end, somehow Stephen A. Smith was right.
> 
> Quick someone go ask him.


He is going to say 'Melo is still in Denver, just like I have been saying all along.


----------



## Ron

*Re: Sources: Nets, Nuggets 'further along'; 15 player trade rumored*



HB said:


> Wow this is some straight up goonery
> 
> Y! Sources: Denver threatens New Jersey: Unless tone changes in 'Melo talks, watch us trade him to Knicks. http://tinyurl.com/4hyje8y


Tone?


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Sources: Nets, Nuggets 'further along'; 15 player trade rumored*



HB said:


> Y! Sources: Denver threatens New Jersey: Unless tone changes in 'Melo talks, watch us trade him to Knicks. http://tinyurl.com/4hyje8y


I changed the word "Knicks" to Rockets. Rockets have $12 million trade exception and DP exception. Yao has 8 million insurance.

There is a reason that Nuggets use "knicks".


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

This is the problem:
Nets don't have enough assets to help Nuggets get Blake Griffin and Batum. All 3 first round picks from other teams are protected, protected and protected.

If Nets can't get them Batum or Griffin, Nuggets are not going to wait for them. Threat is needed.


----------



## RollWithEm

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Wrong thread, sorry.


----------



## Hyperion

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Ballscientist said:


> This is the problem:
> Nets don't have enough assets to help Nuggets get Blake Griffin and Batum. All 3 first round picks from other teams are protected, protected and protected.
> 
> If Nets can't get them Batum or Griffin, Nuggets are not going to wait for them. Threat is needed.


By Nets you mean Minnesota and by Nuggets you mean Clippers and by Blake Griffin you mean Carmello and Batum is actually Harrington.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Two first round picks are the most overrated assets in the century.

As I said many times, Nuggets need to trade Melo plus two round picks for a valuable player (3 for 1).

Example: Melo/Picks for Blake Griffin and a bag of garbage.

Derrick Favors will be an average player in the future. Two Nets first rounds will be basically nothing.


----------



## HKF

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

The problem is, you guys are involved in the speculation. Some people only comment when the trade is completed. Why get all burnt up about a rumor? Call me when it gets done.


----------



## Wade County

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

_The Nuggets are also angry, sources said, with the fact that so many details from the trade talks have gone public. Yahoo! Sports reported that according to sources, the Nuggets told the Nets that they would trade Anthony to the Knicks if the leaks continued. But sources told ESPN.com that the reported threat never happened._

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=6010542

This paragraph epitomises what I hate about sports journalism now. What a load of crap.


----------



## hobojoe

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

This is for you, HB:

Reporter: Do you dream about getting Melo?
Avery Johnson: No, I dream about our center getting 10 rebounds.

LINK]

:rotf:


----------



## MemphisX

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



hobojoe said:


> This is for you, HB:
> 
> Reporter: Do you dream about getting Melo?
> Avery Johnson: No, I dream about our center getting 10 rebounds.
> 
> LINK]
> 
> :rotf:


Dream on Avery, dream on...


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Next round (Round 8)

Tonight's watch: Nicolas Batum


----------



## Adam

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Why does BS keep mentioning Nicolas Batum?


----------



## HB

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Lol but he's right though, however funny that is. The guy should be rebounding more.


----------



## MLKG

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Does anybody else think it's hilarious that this deal is hanging on Denver's insistance it needs to dump Al Harrington's contract?

They just signed him 7 months ago!

This front office has no idea what it is doing.


----------



## Wade County

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

^ Yes, I do find that hilarious. Buyers remorse much?


----------



## zagsfan20

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



HB said:


> Lol but he's right though, however funny that is. The guy should be rebounding more.


You said he was the 2nd best Center in the league.


----------



## HB

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Coming into the season yeah. But then again besides Dwight it does get pretty weak.


----------



## Dissonance

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Adam said:


> Why does BS keep mentioning Nicolas Batum?


Apparently, Nuggets want to flip Harris to Blazers if they make Batum available. They're looking to deal Harris elsewhere regardless though.



> STEIN_LINE_HQ Marc Stein
> Blazers clear favorite to get Harris if they make Batum available to DEN after months of resisting Batum offers. See @CSheridanESPN for more


----------



## Dre

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

I don't think Batum is much for what the Blazers are gonna end up being, but I wouldn't trade him for Harris either.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



MLKG said:


> Does anybody else think it's hilarious that this deal is hanging on Denver's insistance it needs to dump Al Harrington's contract?
> 
> They just signed him 7 months ago!
> 
> *This front office has no idea what it is doing.*


This isn't a deadly sin, teams regret first year signings every year. Not to mention Harrington is worthless to a rebuilding team, he'd have value to the Nuggets of last year and two years ago. I mean I understand why once you trade Billups and Anthony he loses value. 

It's one of those things you can say at face value to make a cute post, but just dig a little and you'll understand why they don't need him anymore.

This trade is a shot in the dark though and it doesn't get better with every team waking up and wanting something else, not to mention other teams wanting in on it. As it gets closer to the deadline though every team involved will stop being extra and just get their barebones and this happens pending a Carmelo approval. 

I didn't see it coming but apparently he's resigned to accepting it if it goes down, especially considering he'll be in Brooklyn while still in his prime anyway.


----------



## Diable

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Harrington is overpaid by a bit, but the reason that Denver wants to dump him is that they're going into rebuilding mode. They signed him to play a role on a playoff team...Which they don't happen to have. I haven't seen a ton of the Nuggets, but he's done his role okay from what I have seen.


----------



## MLKG

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

So Denver didn't know Carmelo was on his way out when they signed Harrington? He was in the last year of his deal and didn't want an extension. Or did they think Harrington would be the piece that made him want to stay.


----------



## MLKG

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

You know who would love Devin Harris, Derrick Favors, and 2 first round picks right now? Cleveland.

This is as good as it's gonna get, and it ain't gonna get any better. Denver needs to come to their senses before Prokhorov turns on a Nuggets game and actually watches Melo play.


----------



## Ron

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Wade County said:


> _The Nuggets are also angry, sources said, with the fact that so many details from the trade talks have gone public. Yahoo! Sports reported that according to sources, the Nuggets told the Nets that they would trade Anthony to the Knicks if the leaks continued. But sources told ESPN.com that the reported threat never happened._
> 
> http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=6010542
> 
> This paragraph epitomises what I hate about sports journalism now. What a load of crap.





> From story:
> The Clippers' Blake Griffin is one of Denver's dream targets in an Anthony trade, but sources told ESPN.com that those overtures have been consistently rejected. The Nuggets have also made numerous attempts to acquire the comparatively unheralded Nicolas Batum from Portland but have been repeatedly rebuffed.


:lol:

"Dream" target is right. You just go on dreaming, Denver. No way Clippers give up their only real fan draw...Griffin is already the ROY.

"Overtures have been consistently rejected."

Huh? They keep calling?

If I were the Clippers I would put the Nuggets on call block.


----------



## Wade County

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Seriously, in that "article" I posted - I bet the word 'sources' is said around 20 times.

And yeah, I laughed pretty hard at that one too Ron. I bet the Denver FO would completely agree that would be a dream scenario, but I very much doubt any such discussion legitimately took place. ESPN making up crap again.


----------



## HB

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

See thats what happens, these clowns start getting unrealistic expectations.


----------



## Ron

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Wade County said:


> Seriously, in that "article" I posted - I bet the word 'sources' is said around 20 times.
> 
> And yeah, I laughed pretty hard at that one too Ron. I bet the Denver FO would completely agree that would be a dream scenario, but I very much doubt any such discussion legitimately took place. ESPN making up crap again.


Yeah, I quit reading the article when the word "sources" hit the century mark.

Does it mean there are 100 sources? Or 1 source? Or 15 sources? I think it would be pretty funny if the same "source" was giving the writer contradictory information.

I agree, I think ESPN is just making **** up. Perhaps the funniest line in the whole article is the title: "Sources: Carmelo Anthony deal still lags."

Yeah, sure. Like I need a "source" to figure that one out. :|


----------



## OneBadLT123

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

lol at that article posted above. Source and Sources is repeated about 30 times. No joke

Anyone taking any of this seriously anymore? I mean Blake Griffin...really ESPN? Stop making crap up.


----------



## OneBadLT123

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Ron said:


> Yeah, I quit reading the article when the word "sources" hit the century mark.
> 
> Does it mean there are 100 sources? Or 1 source? Or 15 sources? I think it would be pretty funny if the same "source" was giving the writer contradictory information.
> 
> I agree, I think ESPN is just making **** up. Perhaps the funniest line in the whole article is the title: "Sources: Carmelo Anthony deal still lags."
> 
> *Yeah, sure. Like I need a "source" to figure that one out.* :|


lol


----------



## Wade County

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Between Free Agency 2010 and this stuff right here, zero respect for ESPN and their reporter hacks. Guys like Bucher make me sick.


----------



## Floods

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



OneBadLT123 said:


> lol at that article posted above. Source and Sources is repeated about 30 times. No joke


A solid 26 actually, although a couple of them are taken from links to other stories that have 'sources' in the title.

Still funny though.


----------



## Ron

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Floods said:


> A solid 26 actually, although a couple of them are taken from links to other stories that have 'sources' in the title.
> 
> Still funny though.


Yeah, and how does the writer keep track of all these sources? Additionally, how does the reader keep track? The article is just unreadable, and I quit halfway through. It didn't make sense at that point.


----------



## Floods

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

I read it for the amusement factor. Now I'm laughing even more while scrolling down the page and seeing all the 'source's in the article highlighted (ctrl + f).


----------



## Dre

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



MLKG said:


> So Denver didn't know Carmelo was on his way out when they signed Harrington? He was in the last year of his deal and didn't want an extension. Or did they think Harrington would be the piece that made him want to stay.


At this point NBA contracts are like NFL ones. If you're over 28, noone really means that amount of years, and someone will always take you.


----------



## Hyperion

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

If the Nuggets are truly interested in reloading, they need to get some Beasley and Love action on this trade. Minny has to know that they aren't going to be able to keep either of them.

EDIT: And they can unload the Rubio fiasco to NY for something good.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Nuggets have first time president and first time GM, they are doing trade proposal exercises. Nets are angry that Nuggets let Melo and Billups play on Sunday (Jan 9) because proposal is in place.

Nuggets know that Nets have no assets to get Melo. Favors should not be a centerpiece on this deal.

Knicks have obviously no assets to get Melo, either. It needs 4 or 5 other teams to help.


----------



## Tragedy

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Hyperion said:


> If the Nuggets are truly interested in reloading, they need to get some Beasley and Love action on this trade. Minny has to know that they aren't going to be able to keep either of them.
> 
> EDIT: And they can unload the Rubio fiasco to NY for something good.


I think NY is past Rubio.

I hope.


----------



## HB

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Amare should be fined for tampering


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



HB said:


> Amare should be fined for tampering


The word "tampering" is used for team owners and management only. Players are excluded.

Melo could lose 80 million dollars if he insists he wants to play in New York because Knicks or Nets have no assets to get him and Nuggets want to get equal values.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Round 9: Nuggets, Knicks and Wolves

Knicks have a trade proposal in place on Wednesday night, so Nuggets should not let Melo play tonight.lol

Nuggets get Wolves 2011 first round, Gallo/Chandler/Fields (2 of 3) and filler

Wolves get AR

Knicks get Melo

Knicks know that Nuggets like the first round from a terrible team.

This proposal is a lot of better than the one Nets have, IMO.


----------



## Ron

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

BS, please link your stories. I had to find it myself...otherwise, I thought it was another trade proposal on your part.

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports....o-move-anthony-randolph-for-first-round-pick/


----------



## Dre

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Don't go messing up the program Ron

That's like asking Ehmunro to name 3 players in a post without at least one nickname.


----------



## RollWithEm

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Who says no to this deal (the basics of which were outlined in this article)?

*Denver trades:*

SF Carmelo Anthony
PF Al Harrington (bad 5-year contract that they’re looking to dump)

*LA Clippers trade:*

PG Eric Bledsoe 
SF Al-Farouq Aminu 
C Chris Kaman 
SG Rasual Butler (expiring)
PF Brian Cook (expiring)
PF Craig Smith (expiring)
Rights to Minnesota’s 2012 first round pick (unprotected)

This would be much more solid than the Nets' offer. How does this not help both teams?


----------



## Spaceman Spiff

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Melo would be a great fit with the Clippers. That team would be able to compete in the west.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

That's a bucket of fruits and vegetables. I don't understand why people don't realize the Nuggets don't want "solid" back, they're willing to take a risk on a guy who was just selected 3rd overall. That Wolves pick is nice looking, but this is a weaker draft.

And Carmelo wouldn't sign there anyway so it's moot.


----------



## roux

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Yeah.. not only is melo being very public about his desire to leave denver.. which if i was a nuggets fan i would hate the guy for it.. but this "i will only sign with the knicks" crap is really limiting denvers trade options.. personally if i was denver i would just take wilson chandler or galinari and a couple of firsts from new york and get it over with


----------



## RollWithEm

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Dre™ said:


> That's a bucket of fruits and vegetables. I don't understand why people don't realize the Nuggets don't want "solid" back, they're willing to take a risk on a guy who was just selected 3rd overall. That Wolves pick is nice looking, but this is a weaker draft.
> 
> And Carmelo wouldn't sign there anyway so it's moot.


Bledsoe and Aminu have proven this season that they can be solid contributors with strong possibilities of developing into solid NBA starters. Kaman is still a top 10 offensive center in the league. Butler and Smith can actually contribute this season to the point where Denver would still be a threat to make the playoffs.

That Minnesota pick is not this year. It will be at the top of the solid 2012 draft class.

Now the more important question is: why on earth wouldn't Melo sign there? Lala would be in freaking L.A. He would be on a legit championship contender for the next 4 years at least. Would you rather a core of Durant/Westbrook/Green/Ibaka or Gordon/Melo/Griffin/Jordan? I don't know about you, but I'm taking the latter foursome every day of the week.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



RollWithEm said:


> Bledsoe and Aminu have proven this season that they can be solid contributors with strong possibilities of developing into solid NBA starters. Kaman is still a top 10 offensive center in the league. Butler and Smith can actually contribute this season to the point where Denver would still be a threat to make the playoffs.
> 
> That Minnesota pick is not this year. It will be at the top of the solid 2012 draft class.


*Once again*, it's not about picking up a collection of "solid contributors" for them, the Nuggets aren't interested in becoming the Rockets. That trade may make sense to you, but if they trade Carmelo it's going to be for someone they could see building around, not something that barely keeps them afloat and leads them nowhere but the middle of the draft. 

It's been said all year, that's why the Nuggets haven't talked much to the Knicks. Favors gives them that guy _they_ are out for.

Maybe that's not good business to you, but if I have Ownership's blessing, I get my prospect right back in the deal (and don't have to gamble on draft picks), and build accordingly. 

And noone's saying Wilson Chandler and Gallinari aren't good, but for Denver it's not about evening a scale right away with this. They know it's a risk, but they're willing to go for it before they settle with guys that are good but won't win anything for you. 

The Knicks have a ton of pieces that could look good around somebody, but why would you trade for them if you don't have that somebody and their presence will probably prevent you from being in draft position to do such?



> Now the more important question is: why on earth wouldn't Melo sign there? Lala would be in freaking L.A. He would be on a legit championship contender for the next 4 years at least. Would you rather a core of Durant/Westbrook/Green/Ibaka or Gordon/Melo/Griffin/Jordan? I don't know about you, but I'm taking the latter foursome every day of the week.


It's not about me or you, it's about him.

Carmelo wants to be a Knick, that's why he's not going to LA. That's pretty apparent by now, the Nuggets aren't even shopping him anywhere but the two teams in the tri-state area. 

He wants to be close to home, that's the primary reason for the move. It has little to do with Lala, I don't understand why people are trumping her up just because they know her name. 

I guess at the end of the day you all are being hypothetical, but I'm moreso about what's within the realm of possibility, and that's the difference. I'm speaking from the POV of what we've been informed the Nuggets and Carmelo are out for.

We'll just agree to disagree, see how it plays out, and who ends up closer to reality.


----------



## Diable

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Melo is from Baltimore and his claim has been that he wants to be closer to home...no matter how bogus that seems to the rest of us. So it would appear that he's only interested in East Coast destinations. I don't see why the Knicks would give up anything meaningful so long as he's playing the game he's apparently playing now. Honestly Melo doesn't do much for them if they have to give up a lot for him. He doesn't have enough shooting range to really complement what the Knicks do. He probably realizes that going to the Nets in any deal that's been postulated is a lateral move at best. Lopez, Rip, Chauncey and Melo...That's an average team with no shelf life and he knows it.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Even if the Knicks give up what they deem too much the Nuggets wouldn't be interested. Only thing I'd want from the Knicks is Amare.


----------



## Tragedy

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Dre™ said:


> Don't go messing up the program Ron
> 
> That's like asking Ehmunro to name 3 players in a post without at least one nickname.


:rotf:

EHMunro is our very own Clyde Frazier


----------



## HB

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

His agent wants him in Jersey according to Woj.


----------



## Tragedy

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



HB said:


> His agent wants him in Jersey according to Woj.


His agent must have a separate deal with the Nets owner, for real.

But didn't Lebron's agent want him in Chicago?

We see how that turned out.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

My source = source from the "street" = hard to find link

My source tells me that Nuggets talked to Knicks this week in regard to Melo deal. That means Knicks have a chance if they can defeat the Nets proposals.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

LeBron's people I think wanted him in New York..they sure as hell didn't want him in Miami though.


----------



## HB

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Melo will be a Net


----------



## Dre

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

It would be interesting to see what should still be the core of the Pistons in Jersey.


----------



## Ron

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



HB said:


> Melo will be a Net


How?

This guy has *never* said, tweeted, burped, or farted anything close to admitting that he would ever sign an extension with New Jersey.


----------



## MemphisX

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Yeah, I think if NY can come within a stones throw of NJ's offer, he will stonewall Jersey.


----------



## Dissonance

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



> The New York Knicks have reached out to Memphis about participating in a three-team deal that would send Grizzlies guard O.J. Mayo to Denver and Carmelo Anthony to New York, according to league sources.
> 
> Talks are in the infant stages and nothing is imminent, but the discussions are a sign of the Knicks' increased aggressiveness in trying to trade for Anthony.
> 
> Emboldened by their belief that Anthony will refuse to sign a three-year, $65 million contract extension with the New Jersey Nets, the Knicks have stepped up their efforts to bring the Nuggets star to New York.
> 
> 
> The Nets, Nuggets and Pistons are still in discussions on a trade that may involve more than 13 players and hope to have it wrapped up by next week, the Bergan (N.J.) Record reported.
> 
> 
> The Knicks have tried to engage Denver in trade talks all season, but the Nuggets, unmoved by the players New York has to offer, have been unwilling to partake in significant discussions. Sources, however, say that is changing as the Nuggets themselves wonder whether Anthony is willing to go to New Jersey.
> 
> The Knicks understand they need to recruit another trade partner or two in order to put together a package Denver would be interested in, and that's their motivation for inquiring about Mayo. It is not clear at this point whether Denver is actively involved in the talks with Memphis.
> 
> Mayo, who has had a disappointing and controversial season in Memphis, is on the trading block, and the Knicks' hope is that he would satisfy Denver's desire for a promising young prospect. Though the third-year guard is coming off the bench and scoring less than 13 points a game this season, Mayo averaged 18 points over his first two years.
> 
> While Mayo, who has one year, $5.6 million remaining on his contract after this season, does not have the leverage to stop a possible deal, sources say he would not be happy with a trade to Denver.
> 
> After nearly three years of rebuilding in Memphis, Mayo is looking to go to a winning situation, according to the sources. He understands without Anthony, Denver would be starting over.
> 
> Mayo, however, would like to go to the Knicks.
> 
> The Knicks' only interest in Mayo is to aid them in acquiring Anthony.
> 
> The Knicks will also need at least one first-round draft pick to grab Denver's attention, and New York is confident it can get such a pick for Anthony Randolph from one of several clubs. Sources say Indiana was willing to trade a first-round pick to New York for Randolph last summer.
> 
> Any Knicks package for Anthony would also likely include some combination of Wilson Chandler, Danilo Gallinari or Landry Fields.
> 
> While the Nuggets weren't impressed with those names early in the season, their strong play during the Knicks' resurgence has upped their value, according to sources.


http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/nba/news/story?id=6019859


----------



## Dre

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Now watch Carmelo get behind this deal. 

Would be hilarious if people were talking about the Knicks' lack of assets then Walsh facilitates a deal where the Nuggets' major haul is a Grizzlies player.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Round 10: Nuggets, Knicks, Griz

Suggestion:

Knicks add Eddy Curry

Nuggets add Harrington, Billups


----------



## Hyperion

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Ron said:


> How?
> 
> This guy has *never* said, tweeted, burped, or farted anything close to admitting that he would ever sign an extension with New Jersey.


It's how he rubbed his nose after the game against Houston back in October. He rubbed his nose with his right hand. That is a clear indication that he wants to go East to Jersey because people in Jersey also do that.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

I did research, research and research again. I figure out nothing about Melo.

Melo says: He don't care about money. He wants to win.

Nets are going to win absolutely nothing the next 5 years. They will completely rely on the Lakers first round pick.

Why does Melo say about this?

He don't care about money. He wants to win.


----------



## GNG

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Ballscientist said:


> I did research, research and research again. I figure out nothing about Melo.
> 
> Melo says: He don't care about money. He wants to win.
> 
> Nets are going to win absolutely nothing the next 5 years. They will completely rely on the Lakers first round pick.
> 
> Why does Melo say about this?
> 
> He don't care about money. He wants to win.


----------



## 29380

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



> The Nets on Friday continued to try to put the finishing touches on a trade for Nuggets star Carmelo Anthony.
> 
> Sources who were extremely optimistic Thursday the deal would be completed shortly were even moreso Friday, with one saying chances of the trade have increased from 90 percent to 95 percent.
> 
> The deal could be agreed to principle before Tuesday, then finalized later next week.
> 
> If completed, Anthony is expected to meet with Nets owner Mikhail Prokhorov on Tuesday or Wednesday. The billionaire is scheduled to attend the Nets' Wednesday home game against the Jazz, which is Russian Culture Night at Prudential Center.
> 
> One person directly involved in the trade scenario suggested that if all goes as planned and the deal is finalized, Anthony could play his first game for the Nets next Friday against the Pistons, the other party involved in the proposed three-team, 14-player deal.
> 
> It is believed the Nuggets would like to include one more player in the deal to help with their salary situation, but it would be Renaldo Balkman, not Al Harrington. It is unknown if the Nets would add another player to the deal
> 
> Nuggets guard Chauncey Billups and Pistons forward Richard Hamilton would join Anthony in New Jersey. Up to eight Nets are believed to be heading out if the current proposal is consummated.
> 
> Anthony would have to agree to a contract extension, but the Nets have believed all along that he would do so.


http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/netsblog/nets_continue_to_work_on_carmelo_I41bAXDS84clqVira8O5WP


----------



## Ron

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

^ :lol: ^


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Jesus, if you were the Nets wouldn't you trade your team for an actual NBA player or three?


----------



## HB

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Its NOT the Nets holding up this deal man.


----------



## Diable

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

It's not a good deal for the Nets really and it sure as hell doesn't get Melo to a team with a shot of winning something. This deal would create a team that probably wouldn't make the playoffs this year...And if it did would get swept. Then next year in a full season the best possible outcome would be something like a five seed with some shot at beating a weak four seed. 

If Melo does this it's just a way to get 65 million without looking like he swerved first. Melo is a very good player, but he's not a transcendent player who is automatically going to elevate a team. He's certainly not going to make the Nets a contender under this scenario. Of course the Nets are likely looking at this as a business move. Joe Dumars type stuff where you try to get just good enough to get some butts into seats.


----------



## HB

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Marketable and one of the top 5 - 7 players in the league. That's transcendent enough for Prokhorov. A motivated Melo is a damn good player. The Nuggets are currently in playoff position in the West, that's all going down the drain once he leaves.


----------



## GrandKenyon6

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

This is a tremendous deal for the Nets.


----------



## jmk

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

The Nets are making this move with the belief that Chris Paul will join Melo in the very near future. I thought this was known by most already?


----------



## GrandKenyon6

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

I don't know why people are acting like this is the final move. It isn't. This is the first step in the process.


----------



## HB

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Haters mostly


----------



## Tragedy

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Let's keep it real.

The Nets are looking to make this trade to block NY from getting him, and as a big name to spark interest in the team now and when they come to Brooklyn.

The Nets were the biggest losers in the 2010 FA period, despite being arguably the cockiest team (the billboard - expect greatness?) taking shots at their crosstown rival.

The Knicks were able to retool their roster while being flexible enough to add another superstar, while the Nets were left with table scraps (Petro, Farmar, Morrow).

If the Knicks make a trade for Carmelo Anthony, they're playoff locks for the next 4-5 seasons barring injury, and have a ceiling of being a top 3 team in the East, and they create separation between them and NJ/Brooklyn, making it damn near impossible for the Nets to take a bigger chunk of the NY market. 

In the eyes of Nets Brass they can trot out Anthony as their answer to Amare, and assume the Nets would be on equal footing. Both teams with a superstar.

That's what this trade is. They're not looking to contend soon. I don't see how Chris Paul is realistic in their plans. The only tradable asset would be Brook Lopez and is he going to be something NO will want? Don't think so. I also don't think they'll be in a position to sign CP3 outright. Hell I could see the Knicks trying to block that trade if they don't get Melo.


----------



## HB

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Umm let's be real that's some BS. So the Nets don't need a star of their own? Why the heck do they care if NY gets him or not. Seriously sometimes you NY fans and some other big city teams think you are the only teams that matter. Get over yourself. The Nets are trying to win and sell tickets too. The Knicks dont have what the Nuggets want.


----------



## Tragedy

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



HB said:


> Umm let's be real that's some BS. So the Nets don't need a star of their own? Why the heck do they care if NY gets him or not. Seriously sometimes you NY fans and some other big city teams think you are the only teams that matter. Get over yourself. The Nets are trying to win and sell tickets too. The Knicks dont have what the Nuggets want.


I'd believe you if the Nets weren't taking the shots at the Knicks in the offseason. But it makes sense. It makes a lot of sense.

It's not as though we're talking about teams in two completely different areas. It's not like it's Chicago and NY.

The Nets are moving into the Knicks backyard, and hope to draw some fans from the Knicks fanbase. It becomes infinitely more difficult if Carmelo goes to NY with Amare and they form a great team. 

But if NJ didn't put up that "A Blueprint for Greatness" Billboard over MSG (a direct taunt) or if they didn't they spread rumors about Donnie Walsh I wouldn't be saying any of this.

But if I were a business man moving into the same city as your rival, I'd want to do the same thing.


----------



## HB

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

The two teams have history, but its not like the Knicks have been relevant for the past few years. With that said, this Melo move has nothing to do with the Knicks. The Nets need a superstar going into Brooklyn, if Paul or any other big name were available they'd be going after them just as hard REGARDLESS of what the Knicks are doing.


----------



## Tragedy

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

It has nothing to do with past years. It's about the present. And yeah, you're basically agreeing with me, because I said the reasons for the Nets are two-fold.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Knicks general manager is not smart. 

How can this be possible, OJ Mayo to Nuggets for Melo?

It makes more senses if Knicks can send Anthony to Nuggets for Anthony.

(Anthony R for Melo)


----------



## Dre

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

This is all from stuff I've read and pieced together:

Apparently at this point Prokhorov is so confident in his persuasive abilities he'd complete the deal without Carmelo's guarantee on a contract. Carmelo also isn't 100% against New Jersey, he's just needs to know what their plans are for the future, whatever that means..as if trading the house for him doesn't imply they want to win. I guess he just wants to know that the Nets just don't plan to use him as a big name and put a marginal team around him.

Carmelo's people (CAA) are pushing for the Nets because this Worldwide Wes cat wants to get in Prokhorov's inner circle, and Rose is loyal to Rip (as one of his longest clients) so that's why that angle that Carmelo wanted to play with him was pushed out there. At this point it's looking like it has little to actually do with Carmelo, it's just a bunch of conflicting egos without anyone, even Carmelo's people truly knowing what Carmelo wants to do. Reminds me of the LeBron fiasco, and maybe HKF was right when he said we needed to get these kingmakers out of the game last summer.

The Nuggets are somewhat more interested in some of the Knicks now but not enough to make a move, especially because they don't want to have to match the 10+ mil Chandler could get on the market. His people are trying to push Carmelo off of New York, putting it in his ear that they don't even want to trade too much for him so they don't want him that bad...who knows how that's working.

I read also that it was pretty much done last weekend but when Ujiri took it to Kroenke for approval he said they were taking back too much money, so that would imply Harris is out or going to another team in whatever happens. 

Interesting situation but still no real end in sight. Some people are saying it should be done by the weekend, some are saying the 3 way is all but dead. It's a big staring contest, someone's going to have to make a power move to get this done, be it New York, Jersey or Denver.


----------



## LA68

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

I get the feeling both the Nuggets and Nets will blow this deal. Notice how the Knicks are laying back and quiet. That's the way you do deals. Not public back and forth. 
The Nuggets front office is in disarray. The Nets have over valued their talent.

Favors has gone from untouchable to a give away within months. With all the problems Cousins is having, he at least is putting up decent numbers of late. Favors who can't get time from Humphries is gonna replace Melo ?? Devin Harris = dime a dozen. 

Melo is one of a precious few stars who sell tickets. People will pay to see him play. Meaning, Denvers attendance will fall when he leaves. That hurts. They would need a boatload of something to trade him away. Nets don't have that. They gutted their roster a bit too much. Picks are just "???" Favors was a pick, So was Thabeet. You don't trade top players for question marks. And Denver won't. 

Paul is the same way. Hardly anyone watches the Hornets now. Imagine if Paul leaves ! They will hold on to him as long as they can. Might be better if Melo could go down there LOL


----------



## Ron

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Dre™ said:


> This is all from stuff I've read and pieced together:
> 
> Apparently at this point Prokhorov is so confident in his persuasive abilities he'd complete the deal without Carmelo's guarantee on a contract.


You are kidding right? He would have to be a complete moron to do this deal without 'Melo agreeing to a contract extension.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

I hear the Russian mafia can be preeeeeeeeety persuasive. :bsmile:


----------



## Dre

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Even moreso than Tony n nem


----------



## Floods

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Melo better hope that NJ lands Paul or Williams (or Howard, somehow) in 2012, or he'll be looking back at Denver as the good old days.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

This is all getting a little annoying. Melo almost seems like hes trying to build up drama like James did last season.

It's getting pathetic.


----------



## Hyperion

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



R-Star said:


> This is all getting a little annoying. Melo almost seems like hes trying to build up drama like James did last season.
> 
> It's getting pathetic.


I think it's the ESPN trying to be cool. They are ruining the NBA. Their coverage sucks, their analysts suck, hell I hate the color saturation of the games they broadcast. TNT is much better. I miss the Tuesday-Wednesday-Thursday lineup of basketball. That was the apex of great basketball. 6 games in 3 nights every week. Loved it!


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

ESPN does seem to be trying to turn the NBA into the WWE.


----------



## HB

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Diable said:


> It's not a good deal for the Nets really and it sure as hell doesn't get Melo to a team with a shot of winning something. This deal would create a team that probably wouldn't make the playoffs this year...And if it did would get swept. Then next year in a full season the best possible outcome would be something like a five seed with some shot at beating a weak four seed.
> 
> If Melo does this it's just a way to get 65 million without looking like he swerved first. Melo is a very good player, but he's not a transcendent player who is automatically going to elevate a team. He's certainly not going to make the Nets a contender under this scenario. Of course the Nets are likely looking at this as a business move. Joe Dumars type stuff where you try to get just good enough to get some butts into seats.


*
Linkage*



> In taking all of those shots, however, Anthony has also done something else: he’s made his teammates much more efficient offensive players.
> 
> Anthony is a controversial player among those who devote their time to analyzing basketball statistics. The reason is as follows: although he scores a lot of points, he does not do so especially efficiently. His True Shooting Percentage (TS%) – which accounts not just for two-point buckets but also for three-point shots and drawing fouls, neither of which are a particular strength of Anthony’s – is .527 this year and .543 for his career. Those figures are roughly at the league average, which is about .540 in most years.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



> Ken Berger: According to one management source, Melo may not lose a dime by passing on extension because all contracts will be rolled back anyway.


http://twitter.com/KBerg_CBS/status/26387400628375552

I have a very hard time seeing rollbacks occuring.


----------



## Diable

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

That's some bull**** Stern has been saying. A contract is still a contract and if you have a contract that was signed under the terms of the last CBA you're going to get that money. The Union certainly isn't going to negotiate away money out of their members pockets, even if they legally could do it. The players would sue the league and their union if they made such an agreement. They would win too.

However it is almost certain that the owners will try to create a class conflict between the lunchpail type NBA players and the handful of stars who can potentially get a 15 to 20 million per year contract. Your average player is going to be in the league between 1-5 years or less. He'll make that much in his entire career and losing an entire season to this lockout is going to be a really big deal that guy. He's going to sell out those superstars a lot quicker than he'll sell out his wife and kids and his baby mommas. I sure as hell would vote to cut down max salaries if that was what was in my interest.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

quote from nba.com

"At first, a lot of people were saying it's a money situation. It has nothing to do with no type of money," Anthony said. "I don't care about the money. My ultimate at the end of the day is to win and win a championship. Whether I feel like I can do that here, whether I feel like I need to go somewhere else and do it, that's my own ultimate decision.


----------



## MemphisX

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Melo to Miami/Lakers/Boston/San Antonio for the MLE...yep


----------



## Dre

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



MemphisX said:


> Melo to Miami/Lakers/Boston/San Antonio for the MLE...yep


*For the minimum so they can sign one more roleplayer for the MLE


----------



## Ron

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Ballscientist said:


> It has nothing to do with no type of money," Anthony said. "I don't care about the money. My ultimate at the end of the day is to win and win a championship.


Notwithstanding the butchering of the English language by that first sentence, if he truly wants a championship and doesn't care about the money, then sign the league minimum with the Lakers. :|

Sure 'Melo, I believe you. It was never about the money. :horsepoop:


----------



## andrewben

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

No doubt ,

The NJ Net(brooklyn will be his next city


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Then Melo should sign with Clippers. Why?

Clippers have a better chance to win a championship than Nets.

Let's guess what the Nets are going to talk to Melo?

Just be patient. We will sign free agents Chris Paul and Dwight Howard in 2012.


----------



## Tragedy

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Ron said:


> Notwithstanding the butchering of the English language by that first sentence, if he truly wants a championship and doesn't care about the money, then sign the league minimum with the Lakers. :|
> 
> Sure 'Melo, I believe you. It was never about the money. :horsepoop:


It also has nothing to do with signing for less than he's worth either. 

And for a Lebron hater, that man certainly took less money. But you hate him so......


----------



## O2K

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

melo's going to be a net this week. no doubt. they are selling melo jerseys for half off at the nuggets team store


----------



## HB

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Ron said:


> Notwithstanding the butchering of the English language by that first sentence, if he truly wants a championship and doesn't care about the money, then sign the league minimum with the Lakers. :|
> 
> Sure 'Melo, I believe you. It was never about the money. :horsepoop:


Whilst y'all criticize the guy for chasing the money, look at all the cost cutting moves Kroenke and the Nuggets front office have made of late. There's a lot of uncertainty with that team too.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Is this outcome possible?
Nets get Melo, but Melo doesn't sign an extension.


----------



## Floods

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Ron said:


> Notwithstanding the butchering of the English language by that first sentence, if he truly wants a championship and doesn't care about the money, then sign the league minimum with the Lakers. :|
> 
> Sure 'Melo, I believe you. It was never about the money. :horsepoop:


I know what you're saying, but I can't help but think the union would block it if he tried.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

What I'm trippin off...he has an ETO right? Why wouldn't he wait until the final year to ask for an extension that way it would be grandfathered into the new CBA next year?


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Ballscientist said:


> Is this outcome possible?
> Nets get Melo, but Melo doesn't sign an extension.


"Carmelo, it is good to meet of you finally. I know you will love it here, and even more when we get to Brooklyn. Here, with Nets, all the Russian hookers you can eat. And I don't mean the skanky hookers the hiv, neither. I mean young hookers, very very tight. But, you leave us for the Knicks? I would make sure my mechanic's bills were paid up, if you get drift..."


----------



## 29380

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



> A league source said Sunday that the Denver Nuggets have granted the New Jersey Nets permission to speak directly with Carmelo Anthony about the proposed trade that would send Anthony to New Jersey, and about potentially signing the three-year extension that the Nets insist Anthony agree to before they agree to make the deal…
> 
> …Under normal rules, direct contact with Anthony by Nets officials, up to and including majority owner Mikhail Prokhorov, would be tampering. But if Denver gives New Jersey permission to contact Anthony, the Nets can make their sales pitch to Anthony about their team without being subject to penalties. Prohkorov, according to league sources, believes he can sell Anthony on the Nets if he can get in front of him.


http://www.nba.com/2011/news/01/16/nuggets.nets.carmelo.anthony/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpt2


----------



## Dre

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Well here we go. We'll know something real telling within the next 72 hours.


----------



## Ron

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Tragedy said:


> It also has nothing to do with signing for less than he's worth either.
> 
> And for a Lebron hater, that man certainly took less money. But you hate him so......


I don't hate on LeBron, I pity him.

Just because you want to kiss his jock strap, doesn't make anyone who criticizes LBJ into a hater.

I am far from the only poster here that thinks he is a *MORON*. But you go ahead and live vicariously through your basketball heroes...try not to take it too personally, though. My criticism is directed at LBJ, not you.


----------



## Ron

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Floods said:


> I know what you're saying, but I can't help but think the union would block it if he tried.


Of course it was tongue-in-cheek, but some posters (see above you) didn't get it, I guess.


----------



## Ron

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



E.H. Munro said:


> "Carmelo, it is good to meet of you finally. I know you will love it here, and even more when we get to Brooklyn. Here, with Nets, all the Russian hookers you can eat. And I don't mean the skanky hookers the hiv, neither. I mean young hookers, very very tight. But, you leave us for the Knicks? I would make sure my mechanic's bills were paid up, if you get drift..."


:laugh:


----------



## Ron

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Dre™ said:


> Well here we go. We'll know something real telling within the next 72 hours.


Yup, its fish or cut bait now...

How much you want to bet 'Melo tells NJ to shove it?


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Nets have 3 problems:

1. uncertainty
How long can Hamilton and Billups stay? How can they get younger?
2. lack of young talents
Only two young talents: Lopez and Outlaw
3. can not win anything
terrible team


----------



## Tragedy

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Ron said:


> I don't hate on LeBron, I pity him.
> 
> Just because you want to kiss his jock strap, doesn't make anyone who criticizes LBJ into a hater.
> 
> I am far from the only poster here that thinks he is a *MORON*. But you go ahead and live vicariously through your basketball heroes...try not to take it too personally, though. My criticism is directed at LBJ, not you.


The problem you, and many others foolishly have, is that you guys think that anyone who doesn't criticize the man and makes any comment that isn't negative towards lebron is kissing his jock strap.

Lebron is an idiot, yes. But he's still the best player in the NBA - and people are really, really going to hate when, yes WHEN he starts winning championships.

I am also enjoying Kobe and Laker fans using arguments very similar to those Bulls and Jordan fans used against Kobe - arguments Kobe/Laker fans HATED.

You guys are doing the EXACT SAME THING. I find the hypocrisy amusing at the very least.

And for the record, I'm rooting for LA to win it all this season, as I have been doing since 2004.


----------



## Tragedy

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Ron said:


> Yup, its fish or cut bait now...
> 
> How much you want to bet 'Melo tells NJ to shove it?


Back on topic, I'm wondering how full of themselves Mikhail Prokhorov and Jay-Z is.

It's funny that people would think they can sway anyone to choose NJ. Hell, Lebron and Jay were supposed to be thistight, but where is he now?

What are they going to tell Carmelo? "We have this plan to bring Chris Paul, and you'll be the centerpiece. You, Paul and Brook Lopez. Don't worry, we're going to finish this season and one more in Newark, and then we'll be in Brooklyn hopefully. Think about it, you get the chance to play for a brand new franchise! We won't be the NJ Nets, we'll be the Brooklyn Blah Blahs. It's just like Seattle/Oklahoma - just look at Kevin Durant now. You'll get to be the GOAT of our organization, and you'll be able to attract many more free agents."

I mean really - any team would be able to make a halfway decent sell to a franchise player - unless there's something else they'll offer that isn't legal by NBA rules, like say selling Carmelo a house that has 30 million in a closet, or hiring Lala to a contract on the Yes network for a million a year what could they possibly say to change his mind?

If he's really set on NY, and if he knows that if he turns them down in that meeting the Knicks deal will almost certainly happen, there's no way they'd be able to turn him.

He'll be able to go to a team that's a playoff team now, and would turn into a contender with him vs. going to a team that's terrible, and won't have any prospects coming in for a couple seasons and do the Nets really think they'll be able to turn their scraps a few seasons from now into Chris Paul? Whom I don't believe they'll have the money to sign?

The only way he goes to NJ is if Denver tells him straight up, "You don't sign the extension and go to NJ, then take your chances with the new CBA. Think we're bluffing - just watch us."

The meeting with prokhorov and jay-z would be just to soften the blow.


----------



## Tragedy

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Ballscientist said:


> Nets have 3 problems:
> 
> 1. uncertainty
> How long can Hamilton and Billups stay? How can they get younger?
> 2. lack of young talents
> Only two young talents: Lopez and Outlaw
> 3. can not win anything
> terrible team


For once you make a rational post.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Tragedy said:


> The only way he goes to NJ is if Denver tells him straight up, "You don't sign the extension and go to NJ, then take your chances with the new CBA. Think we're bluffing - just watch us."
> 
> The meeting with prokhorov and jay-z would be just to soften the blow.


Like I said earlier if I were him I'd just not optout and go into next season in my final year..unless I'm missing something. 

And I wouldn't put Jay-Z so high up the ladder now. He was only really brought on to entice LeBron and to be an ambassador to Brooklyn. I doubt he's sitting in meetings anymore.


----------



## Tragedy

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Dre™ said:


> Like I said earlier if I were him I'd just not optout and go into next season in my final year..unless I'm missing something.
> 
> And I wouldn't put Jay-Z so high up the ladder now. He was only really brought on to entice LeBron and to be an ambassador to Brooklyn. I doubt he's sitting in meetings anymore.


I agree with the Jay-Z remark- that's why I think it's pretty foolish to think he's going to be this big voice to sway Melo. Unless he's going to let him get a piece of that Roc Nation pie, I really don't know what he can do.

As far as not opting out - there's no grandfathering, otherwise the new CBA would be worthless. Any contracts that are up this season, next season or two years from now will be under the new contract guidelines.

If you're making 30 million and the new contract maxes out at 10 million - then that's what it will be.

Also, Denver is being unrealistic wanting three draft picks. They expect to make this trade and be rolling the season after next. I personally don't think Favors is going to be big time, but that's just me.


----------



## 29380

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



> “I don’t want to talk to nobody,” Anthony said. “I let the front office handle that type of stuff. It ain’t my job to be talking to New Jersey, New York, Lakers, Dallas, no one. I still won’t step into something like that. I’ve seen a lot of people go through that.
> 
> “For me to sit here and say I want to talk to them or Masai (Ujiri, Nuggets executive vice president of basketball operations) or Josh (Kronke, Nuggets team president) gave them permission to talk to me, I think that’s false. If that was the case I’m pretty sure I would have gotten a phone call from Masai or Josh about that.”


http://blogs.denverpost.com/nuggets/2011/01/16/nuggets-anthony-says-he-doesnt-know-about-meeting-with-nets/


----------



## Da Grinch

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Tragedy said:


> I agree with the Jay-Z remark- that's why I think it's pretty foolish to think he's going to be this big voice to sway Melo. Unless he's going to let him get a piece of that Roc Nation pie, I really don't know what he can do.
> 
> As far as not opting out - there's no grandfathering, otherwise the new CBA would be worthless. Any contracts that are up this season, next season or two years from now will be under the new contract guidelines.
> 
> If you're making 30 million and the new contract maxes out at 10 million - then that's what it will be.
> 
> Also, Denver is being unrealistic wanting three draft picks. They expect to make this trade and be rolling the season after next. I personally don't think Favors is going to be big time, but that's just me.


Grandfathering usually happens , maybe he shouldn't count on it , but thats simply how it is.

i still think the nets get cold feet if melo doesn't sign the extention.and i dont think he will, 

in the end considering the situation wilson chandler + a 1st and eddy curry for salary purposes is more than enough.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Round 11:

Melo don't want to talk.

This trade won't go down this week.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Tragedy said:


> I agree with the Jay-Z remark- that's why I think it's pretty foolish to think he's going to be this big voice to sway Melo. Unless he's going to let him get a piece of that Roc Nation pie, I really don't know what he can do.
> 
> As far as not opting out - there's no grandfathering, otherwise the new CBA would be worthless. Any contracts that are up this season, next season or two years from now will be under the new contract guidelines.
> 
> If you're making 30 million and the new contract maxes out at 10 million - then that's what it will be.
> 
> Also, Denver is being unrealistic wanting three draft picks. They expect to make this trade and be rolling the season after next. I personally don't think Favors is going to be big time, but that's just me.


KG and Shaq still have grandfathered contracts from the no cap days


----------



## e-monk

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Dre™ said:


> KG and Shaq still have grandfathered contracts from the no cap days


they must be much older than I thought then - the league instituted a salary cap in 1984


----------



## e-monk

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

And?

it was 3.6 million, think about that


----------



## Dre

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



e-monk said:


> they must be much older than I thought then - the league instituted a salary cap in 1984


Well whatever time it was in the mid 90s that they stopped giving rookies crazy deals, and then instituted the max. You know what I mean.


----------



## Hyperion

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



e-monk said:


> they must be much older than I thought then - the league instituted a salary cap in 1984


a soft cap with larry bird clause means you have no cap when it comes to your franchise guy.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

3 reasons that this trade has been put on hold.

1. Both teams will die after the deal. Neither of them will make the playoffs the next 3 years;

2. All Nets young talents are continuing to regress, Lopez, Sasha, Farmar and Outlaw. No one is going to rebound the ball or play defense.

3. Nets are not ready to compete with Heat because they have no good draft picks.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Da Grinch said:


> Grandfathering usually happens , maybe he shouldn't count on it , but thats simply how it is.


I think that what he was saying is that if 'Melo doesn't sign the big extension now then he's **** out of luck because whether he opts out this summer or next summer he'll be limited by the terms of the new CBA (someone suggested that 'Melo should just not opt out this summer and wait until next).


----------



## Diable

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

The current cap resulted from the final deal Jordan had with the Bulls and KG's contract with the wolves. After the 97-98 season there was a lockout, in large part because Jordan had just made 63.3 million in his final 2 seasons with the Bulls. The lockout probably clinched his decision to retire along with Krause's determination to rebuild around....Jason Caffey I guess. The current CBA with a cap which actually meant something resulted.


----------



## Tragedy

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Dre™ said:


> KG and Shaq still have grandfathered contracts from the no cap days


Grandfathering is when you currently have something in place that will be eliminated.

Not when you won't have something before it's eliminated but getting it anyway. If Melo accepts the extension now, he'll be grandfathered.

If he doesn't? He can opt out and sign according to the rules of the new CBA, or he can play out his final season and be a free agent in 2012.

But if there's a lockout, and say half the season is lost, then he'll only get half of the money for his final year.

He's gotta have someone in his ear keeping him afloat. And I don't think that person is his agent.

Because say he does sign the extension for 65 million. That's an average of 21 million a year. Say there's a full season lockout. Melo loses 21 million, or I believe it'd be closer to 17 million. Or if there's a half season lockout. It'll be a loss of anywhere between 8-10.5 million. So his contract might be lesser regardless. The amount he might be leaving on the table may be 8 million by not taking the deal now, not this 20-30 million people make it to be. He has some room to play hardball.

Anyways, like Knickslife posted:



> When informed that the the Nuggets, who have been pushing to trade Anthony to New Jersey for nearly four months, evidently have given permission to the Nets, Anthony said, "I haven't talked to nobody -- Masai or Josh or any other teams. So for that speculation to be going around out there like that, that’s false." Asked what his desire is, Anthony said, "I don’t want to talk to nobody. I let the front office handle that type of stuff. It ain't my job to be talking to New Jersey, New York, the Lakers, Dallas, no one. That’s not my job to do."


That right there is in line with what I believed. Why would he want to talk to the Nets owner and Jay-Z? What could they possibly say to change his mind? What he's saying right there is - I'm not going to NJ, I don't want to go to NJ, and they can't convince me otherwise. I think he'll meet with them, so not to appear to be disrespectful, but if he does he'll respectfully ask them to stand aside.

I honestly think there's more going on that we don't know about. Someone in the Knicks organization is keeping in touch with Melo, because he's been real cool about it all lately.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Nets owners need to understand this,

Melo wants to win a championship by the age of 30 (by 2014). Nets won't be able to win 40 games each for the next 3 season. It is too far away. Nets need to get two superstars before Melo arrives.


----------



## Ron

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Ballscientist said:


> Melo wants to win a championship by the age of 30 (by 2014).


Then I would say his best bet is Los Angeles, Miami, or Boston.

Anything "New" doesn't fit into a championship picture.


----------



## Hyperion

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Tragedy said:


> Grandfathering is when you currently have something in place that will be eliminated.
> 
> Not when you won't have something before it's eliminated but getting it anyway. If Melo accepts the extension now, he'll be grandfathered.
> 
> If he doesn't? He can opt out and sign according to the rules of the new CBA, or he can play out his final season and be a free agent in 2012.
> 
> But if there's a lockout, and say half the season is lost, then he'll only get half of the money for his final year.
> 
> He's gotta have someone in his ear keeping him afloat. And I don't think that person is his agent.
> 
> Because say he does sign the extension for 65 million. That's an average of 21 million a year. Say there's a full season lockout. Melo loses 21 million, or I believe it'd be closer to 17 million. Or if there's a half season lockout. It'll be a loss of anywhere between 8-10.5 million. So his contract might be lesser regardless. The amount he might be leaving on the table may be 8 million by not taking the deal now, not this 20-30 million people make it to be. He has some room to play hardball.


He'd sign an extension and pick up his player option for next season. So he'd get the full 65million and lose maybe half of the 18 million he's slated to get next year. So even though Lebron/Wade/Bosh all signed 6/110m contracts, Melo could end up making more than them. Melo can make 100m over these 5 years (including this year). Even with a dramatically reduced max, he will make at least 15m a year in his final contract. In the end he'll make more than LBJ and company.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Tragedy said:


> Grandfathering is when you currently have something in place that will be eliminated.
> 
> Not when you won't have something before it's eliminated but getting it anyway. If Melo accepts the extension now, he'll be grandfathered.
> 
> If he doesn't? He can opt out and sign according to the rules of the new CBA, or he can play out his final season and be a free agent in 2012.
> 
> But if there's a lockout, and say half the season is lost, then he'll only get half of the money for his final year.
> 
> ....
> 
> Because say he does sign the extension for 65 million. That's an average of 21 million a year. Say there's a full season lockout. Melo loses 21 million, or I believe it'd be closer to 17 million. Or if there's a half season lockout. It'll be a loss of anywhere between 8-10.5 million. So his contract might be lesser regardless. The amount he might be leaving on the table may be 8 million by not taking the deal now, not this 20-30 million people make it to be. He has some room to play hardball.[/quotr]
> 
> I believe that. I said there's no pressure to where he just has to sign the extension.
> 
> My thing was if he does not opt out and goes into next season or the lockout with the contract he has now, making the 18+M or whatever he's supposed to make, he can't extend off that last year whenever the NBA starts back up and still have it under the last CBA?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I honestly think there's more going on that we don't know about. Someone in the Knicks organization is keeping in touch with Melo, because he's been real cool about it all lately.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm telling you Carmelo is cool as a cucumber 'cause he knows he's going to the Knicks and he's not fretting that money. Fans keep trying to pin that money on him but we have no concept of how he views it, I mean he's already filthy rich and fancies himself an entrepreneur of sorts.
> 
> Maybe, just maybe the guy is fine with taking the financial loss to go to New York and compete for a title?
Click to expand...


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Knicks actions are as slow as 79 old GM? Why?

What if "Melo to Nets" proposal is dead?

Nuggets Plan B: keep Melo

Nets Plan B: get some other good players

Knicks Plan B: ?


----------



## Tragedy

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Hyperion is correct. I was mistaken. He signs the extension, gets his 18 million (which will be partially or fully lost in a lockout) then gets the full 65 million which goes into effect the season after next. I was wrong.

Yeah he'll make money, but if he's serious about winning he holds out. I agree with you completely Dre. When you start getting to the point where you're making 100 million for your career, money can mean something completely different.

Perhaps he even thinks if he goes to NY he'll get more endorsement opportunities. Remember it's not like Lebron and Wade who were already making boatloads of money in endorsements. You rarely see Carmelo. He could probably make an additional 5 million or so a year in NY area endorsements alone.

As far as the money. If he plays out next year with his current contract he wouldn't be able to get the same sort of money in the extension. Otherwise he'd have even more leverage. He could say he'll opt out and leave Denver, or get traded and get his money next season.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Round 11A: Nets OUT.

Round 12: sign an extension with Nuggets


----------



## Ron

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

This thread may eventually beat out that "million post" thread.


----------



## Vuchato

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



> Mikhail prokhorov said he is instructing mgmt to walk away from carmelo deal. He said it's taken too much time and cost nets games so he wants king to back off. prokhorov said final decision.


http://twitter.com/#!/Al_Iannazzone/status/27858539917606913
http://twitter.com/#!/Al_Iannazzone/status/27858895443599361

wow...


----------



## Ben

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Ron said:


> This thread may eventually beat out that "million post" thread.


It's got to get past the Miami offseason thread first. :twoguns:

http://www.basketballforum.com/miam...season-celebration-thread-81.html#post6391049


----------



## Hyperion

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



FX™ said:


> It's got to get past the Miami offseason thread first. :twoguns:
> 
> http://www.basketballforum.com/miam...season-celebration-thread-81.html#post6391049


your mom has to get past the miami thread....


----------



## Tragedy

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Vuchato said:


> http://twitter.com/#!/Al_Iannazzone/status/27858539917606913
> http://twitter.com/#!/Al_Iannazzone/status/27858895443599361
> 
> wow...


Maybe a ploy to get Denver to call back.

I'll believe him when the Knicks get Melo.


----------



## Vuchato

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Tragedy said:


> Maybe a ploy to get Denver to call back.
> 
> I'll believe him when the Knicks get Melo.


yeah i was thinking that could be it, something so the Nets finally have some leverage. Or maybe Melo told him he wouldn't sign the extension in New Jersey. I wouldn't rule out the possibility that he was telling the truth, though. Next few days should be interesting.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Two days ago, ESPN reported that Nets owners and Melo would meet this Tuesday and Wednesday.

Melo's agents are talking to Bulls now.

Round 13: Nuggets and Bulls.

Deng to third team, Melo to Bulls, third team send players to Nuggets


----------



## O2K

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

its new york or bust!


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

My prediction:

Round 14: without Melo contract extension

Rockets proposal: Brooks/Budinger/Jeffries/DP exception/2 Knicks first rounders for Melo/Balkman

Nuggets save $14.3 million


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Wow without the Nets making serious overtures you've got to think the Knicks will continue to low-ball and wait until free agency. Which suddenly means the only teams out there offering are the teams willing to rent this guy.


----------



## Tragedy

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

And now the Bulls enter the picture, courtesy of Leon Rose and Worldwide Wes



> Nevertheless, William Wesley – Worldwide Wes – is expected to travel to Chicago for Bulls games on Thursday and Saturday against the Dallas Mavericks and Cleveland Cavaliers, a source said. Wesley unsuccessfully pushed LeBron James to sign with the Bulls as a free agent, and now has an interest in Anthony ending up there. Wesley represents Bulls coach Tom Thibodeau for CAA.


If you ask me, I think the NBA should look to push WWW out. These guys are clearly operating on their own agenda and not by what their player wants. Any other agent would have pushed for the Knicks, Melo's own preferred destination. Instead they're seemingly looking for every other trade except that. Do they think if he lands in NY they won't get what they're looking for as far as control?


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Ultimately it's up to the players to fire their agents if they don't feel like the agents are acting in their own best interest. The NBA won't and shouldn't interfere. If Carmelo, or anyone regarded as an elite player were to fire their agent, a lot of this stuff would end with the quickness.


----------



## HB

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

The deal is dead according to Prokhorov


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Prokhorov


> If it dies...It dies.


----------



## MemphisX

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Tragedy said:


> And now the Bulls enter the picture, courtesy of Leon Rose and Worldwide Wes
> 
> 
> 
> If you ask me, I think the NBA should look to push WWW out. These guys are clearly operating on their own agenda and not by what their player wants. Any other agent would have pushed for the Knicks, Melo's own preferred destination. Instead they're seemingly looking for every other trade except that. Do they think if he lands in NY they won't get what they're looking for as far as control?


Why would any agent push for the Knicks? Amare is a big injury risk. I would prefer hitching my wagon to D Rose if I were Melo.


----------



## Vuchato

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

I think it's more that Denver has shown no interest in dealing with NY.


----------



## yodurk

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

I can see where Melo and WWW want to come to Chicago, and the Bulls seem interested, but they just don't have the trade assets to offer Denver. 

There would need to be a 3rd team involved to acquire Luol Deng, who isn't appealing to alot of teams and makes a hefty paycheck. And that would be just to get talks rolling.

Bottom line, it's Knicks or bust at this point, and IMO they'd rather wait until the off-season to sign Melo out right.


----------



## Tragedy

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



MemphisX said:


> Why would any agent push for the Knicks? Amare is a big injury risk. I would prefer hitching my wagon to D Rose if I were Melo.



But they don't want to give up Noah. So who else is there? And please don't ****ing say Deng.

But I'd agree with you actually. I think I'd give up Noah to have a core of Boozer, Melo and Rose.


----------



## HB

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Deng is okay though.


----------



## Noyze

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Denver could now end up desperate since the Nets dropped out. Knicks could get Melo alot cheaper.


----------



## HB

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Here's the thing though, Prokhorov could just be playing smart.


----------



## Tragedy

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

First off, Luol Deng has three seasons AFTER this season where the Nuggets would be on the hook for 40 million dollars.

Do they really want to get rid of Anthony only to pay Deng 46 million dollars? So the Bulls would need to find a third team for that one.

As far as Joakim Noah, now that they did the extension his poison pill provision kicks in. So while his salary this season is $3,128,536 his cap value to the Bulls would be that number, but his cap value to the Nuggets will be $10,604,756.

So If I have this correct, the Nuggets would trade Carmelo Anthony and gary Forbes (to make salaries match) for Joakim Noah and Luol Deng.

Chicago sends out Joakim at $3.1mil, but Denver recieves him for $10.6. So they won't be cutting salary, they'll be ADDING salary to their team. Sending out $17.6 and receiving $22 million in salary.

So to take that trade they're going to want another team to take Luol Deng.


----------



## Tragedy

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

And I can't think of a team in the league that will take Deng unless they were getting a pick in return.

Can't think of a contender who'd want him either.


----------



## Noyze

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Nuggets are screwed now though. They needed this deal just as much as NJ did. The only other names I hear out there are Chicago & Houston, and of course NY. NY is either gonna put a dirt cheap package out for him or (most likey) just grab him as a FA. 

I could see Denver scrambling to convince Melo to stay if they dont get anything done by the deadline.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Noyze said:


> Nuggets are screwed now though. NY is either gonna put a dirt cheap package out for him or (most likey) just grab him as a FA.


You mean Eddy Curry plus 5 million trade kicker for Melo?

At least Nuggets get something big instead of nothing.


----------



## Tragedy

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Noyze said:


> Nuggets are screwed now though. They needed this deal just as much as NJ did. The only other names I hear out there are Chicago & Houston, and of course NY. NY is either gonna put a dirt cheap package out for him or (most likey) just grab him as a FA.
> 
> I could see Denver scrambling to convince Melo to stay if they dont get anything done by the deadline.


I think that's the plan also. If I were NY i'd still try to offer a respectable deal, but something that isn't ridiculous. the Knicks are giving up Wilson Chandler either way, so they may as well offer Chandler+Curry+Walker and a first round pick and call it a day.

If I'm Donnie Walsh I call up Denver and tell them the writing's on the wall. Make an offer and we'll try and get that done.

Right now the Denver front office is bungling the entire thing.


----------



## Tom

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Don't know why anyone would ever think he would go there.


----------



## Tragedy

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Tom said:


> Don't know why anyone would ever think he would go there.


Where ? NJ, Chicago, or NY?


----------



## Noyze

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Maybe Chandler, Curry, and 2011 and 2013 picks. Randolph for 2012


----------



## Tom

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Tragedy said:


> Where ? NJ, Chicago, or NY?


He will go where the boss told him...NY. He will learn how to rub it in. Playing right there across from NJ...so close and yet so far.


----------



## O2K

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

deng actually isn't that bad anymore. he's been playing great defense this year, and has played pretty well in his role actually. he is no longer the thorn in the bulls sides and he's getting it done in a lot of minutes. I know Toronto is really high on deng. But Melo is going to new york. There is no doubt about it. It can be like the amare situation last year, almost traded but ends up finishing the season with the suns. bulls aren't so desperate to trade for melo as they were a few months ago.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Noyze said:


> Nuggets are screwed now though. They needed this deal just as much as NJ did. The only other names I hear out there are Chicago & Houston, and of course NY. NY is either gonna put a dirt cheap package out for him or (most likey) just grab him as a FA.
> 
> I could see Denver scrambling to convince Melo to stay if they dont get anything done by the deadline.


If Melo wants to sign a sub-max deal with the Knicks the Nuggets should wish him well and make their money this year while they can. They have a huge luxury tax bill coming, getting stuck with that, and without playoff revenues to offset that makes no sense really.


----------



## Tragedy

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



E.H. Munro said:


> If Melo wants to sign a sub-max deal with the Knicks the Nuggets should wish him well and make their money this year while they can. They have a huge luxury tax bill coming, getting stuck with that, and without playoff revenues to offset that makes no sense really.


They're going to want draft picks rather than nothing at all, which you're not understanding.

That's why they wanted to do the nets deal so badly. Favors and two draft picks? They figured the nets would be gutted enough to be a possible mid lottery pick, or they could perhaps use their own expirings to move up in the draft.

But what they don't want is for Melo to just walk and have absolutely nothing.

So if Walsh is serious about being able to get a draft pick or two, he better get on it, because I doubt that Denver turns NY down if they can end up with a pick and a cheap young talent.


----------



## simply_amazing

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Melo was one of the top 6 or 7 guys in the league, and now he's just a pest.


----------



## Diable

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Letting Melo walk is no worse than any deal the Knicks will give them. It'll essentially be the beached carcass of Eddy Curry and his contract...maybe the right to help write out the sign he'll need when he's standing at an intersection begging for change next year. That's the same thing as letting Melo expire except you might get some playoff money this year.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Tragedy said:


> They're going to want draft picks rather than nothing at all, which you're not understanding.
> 
> That's why they wanted to do the nets deal so badly. Favors and two draft picks? They figured the nets would be gutted enough to be a possible mid lottery pick, or they could perhaps use their own expirings to move up in the draft.
> 
> But what they don't want is for Melo to just walk and have absolutely nothing.
> 
> So if Walsh is serious about being able to get a draft pick or two, he better get on it, because I doubt that Denver turns NY down if they can end up with a pick and a cheap young talent.


The Nuggets won't get "cheap young talent" with low first round picks. And they'd lose millions in the process. It would cost them six million to buy two picks in the late 20s, which is a whole lot cheaper than paying a $15 million luxury tax bill _and_ lose millions in playoff revenue in the process.


----------



## Tragedy

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



E.H. Munro said:


> The Nuggets won't get "cheap young talent" with low first round picks. And they'd lose millions in the process. It would cost them six million to buy two picks in the late 20s, which is a whole lot cheaper than paying a $15 million luxury tax bill _and_ lose millions in playoff revenue in the process.


If they keep Carmelo they don't pay luxury tax? I'm pretty sure they would. Anyways, I think at this stage it'd be foolish to assume what anyone wants to do or what would happen.

Guess we really should just wait it out.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Tragedy said:


> If they keep Carmelo they don't pay luxury tax? I'm pretty sure they would.


Yes, but they'd also go to the playoffs and make money to offset that. If they trade him there's no money coming in to offset the luxury tax bill. Role players they could buy as they can low firsts. So, economically, gifting him to New York makes no sense.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



E.H. Munro said:


> Yes, but they'd also go to the playoffs and make money to offset that. If they trade him there's no money coming in to offset the luxury tax bill. Role players they could buy as they can low firsts. So, economically, gifting him to New York makes no sense.


Good point.

If Nuggets get Gallo/Curry/AR, Nuggets need to spend 10 million more than the current salaries. (Curry 5 million trade kicker is luxury taxable.)

Curry won't be able to lead this Nuggets team to anywhere.


----------



## Diable

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

You trade for Curry you need approval from the NBA League Office and the International Whaling Commission...How the hell long would that take?


----------



## Tragedy

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Ballscientist said:


> Good point.
> 
> If Nuggets get Gallo/Curry/AR, Nuggets need to spend 10 million more than the current salaries. (Curry 5 million trade kicker is luxury taxable.)
> 
> Curry won't be able to lead this Nuggets team to anywhere.


You know what's pathetic? I had to get info for myself to see if you were talking the truth. In googling "Eddy Curry trade kicker" there was a basketballforum.com link in the top five. Unlike many of the other results that had actual information I could make sense of, the bbf link was a freaking ballscientist thread full of non information, like this post I quoted.

And that is not a personal attack *** Yes it is and don't do it again. *** because there's no way the ballscientist who posts here is an actual person, but a character and nothing more. *** Stay on topic, please. ***

Anyways, this is what I found regarding Eddy Curry's trade kicker via real gm.com



> The Knicks have already paid half of Eddy Curry's 2010-2011 salary, a fact that could provide a team acquiring him significant savings and greatly boost his contract's trade value.
> If traded today (September 30th 2010), Curry would be owed a little over $7 million by the team acquiring him, after adding in a trade kicker.
> 
> If Curry was traded just before the February deadline, the unpaid compensation on his contract would decline to about $2.4 million and his trade kicker would decline to about $600,000.
> 
> If the Knicks sent the maximum $3 million of cash to Denver in such a deal, the real cost of Curry's contract would be a little over $4 million if the trade happened now, or less than a half a million dollars if the trade happened just before the deadline.


That is a little more incentive for Denver if they have to make this trade. Maybe they're still trying to swing for the fences with a NJ deal.

Most likely any deal the Knicks make with Denver will include the 3 million in cash. Less than half a million dollars out of Denver's pocket for Curry. This clears up some confusion in this thread.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

This is just a poor situation all around. Melo chose the wrong time to ask out. There are a couple teams willing to rent him for half a season let's see how that goes.


----------



## thaKEAF

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

People went ape**** about The Decision but to me this whole Melo thing is way worse and hasn't been the least bit entertaining.


----------



## The One

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Tragedy said:


> there's no way the ballscientist who posts here is an actual person, but a character and nothing more.
> .


 
wow

you feel better now?


----------



## Ron

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Ballscientist has been around a hell of a lot longer than most people on this board and if you really think he is not a real person rather a character, then who do you think is behind him?

Its amazing how many times I see this sentiment but no one actually refers to his join date: November 2002. That is only 6 months after this site started.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

C'mon Ron. He can be around for the next 20 years but every post has been in character...probably not an existing poster with an alias..but a character nonetheless.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Dre™ said:


> This is just a poor situation all around. Melo chose the wrong time to ask out. There are a couple teams willing to rent him for half a season let's see how that goes.


It would be really hilarious if the Nuggets sent him someplace like Dallas for expiring deals and a low first. Or maybe Phoenix for Vince Carter's remains and a low first, and see him forced to sign an over-MLE deal with the Knicks whenever the lockout ends.


----------



## Tragedy

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Ron said:


> Ballscientist has been around a hell of a lot longer than most people on this board and if you really think he is not a real person rather a character, then who do you think is behind him?
> 
> Its amazing how many times I see this sentiment but no one actually refers to his join date: November 2002. That is only 6 months after this site started.


Man, it's only a month before my join date, and I lurked here for a few months before I signed up.

Of course there's a real person behind the name, but that person is playing a character. It was interesting years ago, even funny at one point. But I think most people are tired of the stupid act by now. BS (ironic) is a waste.

Maybe I'll start spamming the board with nonsensical threads. I guess since I been here since 2002 that'll be cool too.

The best part was I criticized him in a manner that wasn't derogatory, I didn't call him any names or anything like that. I've seen worse insults slide on this board, but whatever.


----------



## Ron

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Dre™ said:


> C'mon Ron. He can be around for the next 20 years but every post has been in character...probably not an existing poster with an alias..but a character nonetheless.


Everyone is a character here...not sure what you mean but he sure has been consistent.

Plus he called the Nets being out hours before today's press conference. It wasn't the first time he has known something. Got to give it to him for that.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Ron said:


> Everyone is a character here...not sure what you mean but he sure has been consistent.
> 
> Plus he called the Nets being out hours before today's press conference. It wasn't the first time he has known something. Got to give it to him for that.


Stuff like that is all over the internet before it actually occurs. He's batting like .076 on 200 trade rumors over the years. He posts rumors like every single day, of course he's going to be right some time .

And I'm not some "character", the same things I post are the same things I say on an everyday basis. Not sure what *you* mean by that.


----------



## Ron

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



thaKEAF said:


> People went ape**** about The Decision but to me this whole Melo thing is way worse and hasn't been the least bit entertaining.


The last time I looked, 'Melo wasn't appearing on ESPN stating that he wanted to "take his talents" somewhere. As far as I can see, 'Melo answers reporter's questions but doesn't actively seek to tell everyone in the world his next destination.

There has to be a cause and effect before you start comparing two "events," right now you are trying to compare oranges to...

...you know.


----------



## Ron

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Dre™;6464985 said:


> Stuff like that is all over the internet before it actually occurs. He's batting like .076 on 200 trade rumors over the years. He posts rumors like every single day, of course he's going to be right some time .


Really?

I didn't see anything myself on this subject at all today, not until the press conference...only place I saw it was on BS' post earlier today in this thread.

Give credit where credit is due.


----------



## Tragedy

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Ok guys. I don't mean to turn the topic of this thread. I had to say something about it and I did. I think it's annoying when I click a thread from the main forum only to found I wasted my time clicking on a BS (pun FULLY intended) thread. It's a frustrating thing to see what could be an interesting topic only to find poor humor. That's it.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Thing is I like BS because he manages to get his humor across but people still take the topic seriously 'cause there's always some bit of truth in there.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Ron said:


> Really?
> 
> I didn't see anything myself on this subject at all today, not until the press conference...only place I saw it was on BS' post earlier today in this thread.
> 
> Give credit where credit is due.


Like I said most of the stuff he reports is all over the internet, such as the Nets being done with the deal, but then you're the same guy who doesn't believe in the merit of tweets or reporters with "sources". 

All due respect I wonder how much ground you really cover in looking for stories because you tend not to trust/laugh at most of the stuff people link on here.


----------



## jayk009

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Denver management really ****ed up in this situation. They got way too greedy and were holding up for too much, I hope they end up with nothing. They just wasted so many different GM's times with more and more demands, they are probably going to regret it since no other team would be willing to offer even close to what the Nets did.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Thing is Carmelo was just not going there so the Nuggets were pretty much doing all this on a prayer anyway.

I do agree with you, and like I said earlier it shows you how the Nuggets' front office inexperience hurt them. A Walsh or West or Petrie would've wrapped this up in a week tops one way or another. The Nuggets woke up every day wanting something different.


----------



## MemphisX

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Ron said:


> The last time I looked, 'Melo wasn't appearing on ESPN stating that he wanted to "take his talents" somewhere. As far as I can see, 'Melo answers reporter's questions but doesn't actively seek to tell everyone in the world his next destination.
> 
> There has to be a cause and effect before you start comparing two "events," right now you are trying to compare oranges to...
> 
> ...you know.



LMAO...LeBron was a free agent. Melo is currently trying to weasel his way off a playoff team midseason and still get paid and in turn is having a subpar season. Yet somehow, you are more offended by LeBron? GTFO...the Melo situation and how it has been covered and viewed by fans shows that all the outrage over "The Decision" was just BS. Sort of like how publicly everyone is so against reality TV yet the ratings are sky high.


----------



## jayk009

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

The thing is, there's nothing wrong with wanting to play for a certain team. Also, he never publicly stated that he wouldn't play for a certain team, so I don't think Melo is near the level of Lebron. Looking at how Denver management dealt with the Nets deal, I'm not surprised he wants out of the franchise. They seem very incompetent and I wouldn't trust them to build a championship team. 

Anyone that is actually worried that Carmelo Anthony not signing an extension is a fool. He will sign an extension no matter what team he is traded to, otherwise he would have just played out his final year quietly and signed with another team next year. Carmelo isn't stupid, he knows that he needs to sign this extension or he will lose out on alot of money. 

I think Carmelo is doing them a huge favor by demanding a trade. At least this allows Denver to get someassets back. If i were the nuggets though, instead of playing hardball unnecessarily with other teams , I would probably test his willingness to forego his extension and become an unrestricted FA. I am 100% sure Carmelo would go for the money and stay with Denver no matter how much he wants to play with the Knicks..


----------



## Ron

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



MemphisX said:


> LMAO...LeBron was a free agent. Melo is currently trying to weasel his way off a playoff team midseason and still get paid and in turn is having a subpar season. Yet somehow, you are more offended by LeBron? GTFO...the Melo situation and how it has been covered and viewed by fans shows that all the outrage over "The Decision" was just BS. Sort of like how publicly everyone is so against reality TV yet the ratings are sky high.


Show me where he is trying to get something done right now...he has come forward and told Nuggets management honestly that he won't be around next year. He never demanded a trade this season.

Give me a link as to where you can support he is trying to "weasel" his way off a playoff team.

I wasn't offended by LeMoron's "decision" at all...it was a source of amusement for me. I don't really care about what he did to Cleveland...but I do believe it speaks volumes of his character. He didn't even tell the Cavaliers of his decision...he had some go-fer do it for him.


----------



## Ron

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Dre™ said:


> Like I said most of the stuff he reports is all over the internet, such as the Nets being done with the deal, but then you're the same guy who doesn't believe in the merit of tweets or reporters with "sources".


Then give me a link that predates what BS did. See if you back up your claims with reality.



> All due respect I wonder how much ground you really cover in looking for stories because you tend not to trust/laugh at most of the stuff people link on here.


Because most of what people post here is bull****, without links and is pure speculation. Your post the other day that this deal was just about done is a perfect example of what you just brought up...this deal wasn't even close to being completed...obviously.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Carmelo hasn't actually 100% closed the door on staying in Denver anyway. He's only focused on Denver or New York. 

Any team that enters the race better have some nice things to say. This isn't just a spur of the moment thing, Carmelo's had his eye on NY for a couple years now.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



> Because most of what people post here is bull****, without links and is pure speculation. Your post the other day that this deal was just about done is a perfect example of what you just brought up...this deal wasn't even close to being completed...obviously.


But Ballscientist is the king of the same thing but you're ignoring that because he's "had some things before". When you show me what those things were in particular I'll get you your link.

And are you referring to where I said the deal was almost done until Kroenke nixed it based on Harris being in it? That was in an article I read like the rest of that post, I didn't just wake up and make that up, I consolidated and posted everything I had read that day into that post.

I've been the main person saying this deal *would not* happen so you're barking up the wrong tree. I bet I've said it about 6-7 different ways in the past month in this thread.


----------



## MemphisX

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Ron said:


> Show me where he is trying to get something done right now...he has come forward and told Nuggets management honestly that he won't be around next year. He never demanded a trade this season.
> 
> Give me a link as to where you can support he is trying to "weasel" his way off a playoff team.
> 
> I wasn't offended by LeMoron's "decision" at all...it was a source of amusement for me. I don't really care about what he did to Cleveland...but I do believe it speaks volumes of his character. He didn't even tell the Cavaliers of his decision...he had some go-fer do it for him.


Why was LeBron obligated to tell the Cavaliers of his decision? I have never understood that perspective. He was a free agent. He had completed his contractual obligations to the Cavs. What bad character trait is it to finish your contract and go to another team? Let's not act like Cleveland fans wouldn't have been butt hurt no matter what avenue he chose to deliver the news.


----------



## Tragedy

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



MemphisX said:


> Why was LeBron obligated to tell the Cavaliers of his decision? I have never understood that perspective. He was a free agent. He had completed his contractual obligations to the Cavs. What bad character trait is it to finish your contract and go to another team? Let's not act like Cleveland fans wouldn't have been butt hurt no matter what avenue he chose to deliver the news.


Great point that he completed his contractual obligation to the Cavs. 

Very very good way of stating it.


----------



## Porn Player

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Tragedy said:


> Great point that he completed his contractual obligation to the Cavs.
> 
> Very very good way of stating it.


I do agree, however the lack of etiquette shown is what most people gripe about. The Cavalier organisation (his employer) had been very good to LeBron and paid him a wealth of money while trying to get him the Championship he so desperately wanted. He showed them complete disrespect by not clueing them in on his actions following the climax of his contract. 

It's bad form, and if you struggle to see that it's likely you have the same loose ethics as LeBron does.


----------



## yodurk

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



jayisthebest88 said:


> Denver management really ****ed up in this situation. They got way too greedy and were holding up for too much, I hope they end up with nothing. They just wasted so many different GM's times with more and more demands, they are probably going to regret it since no other team would be willing to offer even close to what the Nets did.


Completely agree. 

It reminds me of the Chris Bosh situation last year. Everyone knew he was leaving in free agency, but TOR management was in denial and wanted a premium package in return. They ended up with nothing, unless you count the trade exception.

Denver is going down that same dangerous path. Just one decent prospect or one high draft pick could make things worthwhile in the long run.


----------



## yodurk

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



MemphisX said:


> Why was LeBron obligated to tell the Cavaliers of his decision? I have never understood that perspective.


It's good etiquette and a courtesy to the team that bowed down to you for 7 years.

In the the average joe situation, I'd equate this to working for a company that's been good to you for 7 years, then failing to give your 2 weeks notice, and just not showing up one day. If I were the manager, I'd be pissed even though no rules were broken.

Technically he wasn't "obligated", but there are countless actions that human beings are not obligated to do, yet would be the right thing to do. 

/OT


----------



## yodurk

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Tragedy said:


> I think I'd give up Noah to have a core of Boozer, Melo and Rose.


I'm pretty certain that a core of Rose-Boozer-Melo is less than or equal to Rose-Boozer-Noah. In a vacuum and on paper, sure I'd give the edge to Rose-Boozer-Melo, but the end is not equal to the sum of its parts. Noah is a huge intangibles guy and supplements Rose-Boozer so well. Not to mention his salary is/will be far less than Melo.

Bottom line, Noah for Melo is out of the question.


----------



## Pump Bacon

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

I agree that Denver screwed up this situation; they aren't going to get a deal anywhere close to the one from the Nets. Denver basically acted like rookies with how they've handled this situation publicly and for demanding more and more.



yodurk said:


> It's good etiquette and a courtesy to the team that bowed down to you for 7 years.
> 
> In the the average joe situation, I'd equate this to working for a company that's been good to you for 7 years, then failing to give your 2 weeks notice, and just not showing up one day. If I were the manager, I'd be pissed even though no rules were broken.
> 
> Technically he wasn't "obligated", but there are countless actions that human beings are not obligated to do, yet would be the right thing to do.
> 
> /OT


Hmm I think the analogy would be more like, sorry for nitpicking the OT:

In the the *above*-average joe situation, I'd equate this to working for a company that's been good to you for 7 years *but also surrounded you with below-average/average coworkers (especially compared to LeBron's peers on other teams/"companies") that you had to pull their weight for 7 years as the owner reaped the $$$*. Then failing to give your 2 weeks notice, and just not showing up one day. If I were the manager, I'd be pissed even though no rules were broken.


----------



## yodurk

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Pump Bacon said:


> Hmm I think the analogy would be more like, sorry for nitpicking the OT:
> 
> In the the *above*-average joe situation, I'd equate this to working for a company that's been good to you for 7 years *but also surrounded you with below-average/average coworkers (especially compared to LeBron's peers on other teams/"companies") that you had to pull their weight for 7 years as the owner reaped the $$$*. Then failing to give your 2 weeks notice, and just not showing up one day. If I were the manager, I'd be pissed even though no rules were broken.


Actually I can't disagree with that, haha. Cleveland is not completely innocent either. Doesn't change that Lebron is still a terrible human being by all accounts I've seen and heard. Maybe they both got what they deserved in the end (Karma?).


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



yodurk said:


> Completely agree.
> 
> It reminds me of the Chris Bosh situation last year. Everyone knew he was leaving in free agency, but TOR management was in denial and wanted a premium package in return. They ended up with nothing, unless you count the trade exception.
> 
> Denver is going down that same dangerous path. Just one decent prospect or one high draft pick could make things worthwhile in the long run.


No "decent prospect" is ever worth the kind of money you're talking about Denver losing on this deal. This isn't the Toronto situation, Denver is an actual playoff team with Anthony, and capable of getting out of the first round. So, no, guys like Wilson Chandler, Anthony Randolph, et al don't "make things worthwhile in the long run". In fact, by keeping you in the second half of the lottery they actively hurt you.


----------



## thaKEAF

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Ron said:


> The last time I looked, 'Melo wasn't appearing on ESPN stating that he wanted to "take his talents" somewhere. As far as I can see, 'Melo answers reporter's questions but doesn't actively seek to tell everyone in the world his next destination.
> 
> There has to be a cause and effect before you start comparing two "events," right now you are trying to compare oranges to...
> 
> ...you know.


I'm not comparing LeBron and Carmelo. I'm talking about how the media reported both situations and like I said The Decision was at least entertaining, this "Where's Melo going?" **** is just boring and has dragged on way too long *IMO*. Thanks for caring though.


----------



## yodurk

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



E.H. Munro said:


> No "decent prospect" is ever worth the kind of money you're talking about Denver losing on this deal. This isn't the Toronto situation, Denver is an actual playoff team with Anthony, and capable of getting out of the first round. So, no, guys like Wilson Chandler, Anthony Randolph, et al don't "make things worthwhile in the long run". In fact, by keeping you in the second half of the lottery they actively hurt you.


I was more so referring to the Nets deal on the table, namely Derrick Favors and the draft pick(s) being offered.

I don't think the Knicks can offer anything too appealing relative to the Nets' offer. 

I suppose Denver could just risk losing Melo for nothing; they'd save money and would be a prime candidate for the #1 draft pick as one of the league's worst teams. But we see year after year how many teams get stuck in losing mode. It's hard to escape. Denver should know, they've been there more often than not over their history.


----------



## Ron

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



thaKEAF said:


> I'm not comparing LeBron and Carmelo. I'm talking about how the media reported both situations and like I said The Decision was at least entertaining, this "Where's Melo going?" **** is just boring and has dragged on way too long *IMO*. Thanks for caring though.


Well, since this thread is 831 posts and counting, I guess most people would disagree with you that it is boring. Actually, I find it fascinating that this is still going on after all these months and absolutely nothing has changed.


----------



## Ron

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



MemphisX said:


> Why was LeBron obligated to tell the Cavaliers of his decision? I have never understood that perspective. He was a free agent. He had completed his contractual obligations to the Cavs. What bad character trait is it to finish your contract and go to another team? Let's not act like Cleveland fans wouldn't have been butt hurt no matter what avenue he chose to deliver the news.


Do we really need to discuss what has gone on the last seven months to describe LeBron's various bad character traits? Hasn't this been discussed _ad nauseum_ in this very forum?



> Originally posted by Porn_Player:
> I do agree, however the lack of etiquette shown is what most people gripe about. The Cavalier organisation (his employer) had been very good to LeBron and paid him a wealth of money while trying to get him the Championship he so desperately wanted. He showed them complete disrespect by not clueing them in on his actions following the climax of his contract.
> 
> It's bad form, and if you struggle to see that it's likely you have the same loose ethics as LeBron does.


This.


----------



## thaKEAF

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Ron said:


> Well, since this thread is 831 posts and counting, I guess most people would disagree with you that it is boring. Actually, I find it fascinating that this is still going on after all these months and absolutely nothing has changed.




:twoguns: another reason it pisses me off is because I bought like a discounted Grizzlies pack but I can only go to weekend games due to work. The next game is the day before Valentines day against the Nuggets..:clown:


----------



## Hyperion

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Ron said:


> He didn't even tell the Cavaliers of his decision...he had some go-fer do it for him.


Maybe they should have thought about using the 2010 FA to bring in another superstar player instead of tying themselves to Jamison/Williams/Varejao for $30 million this year. It's not like this was an isolated incident either. They tied themselves to multiple long term contracts with players that were not even worthy of a starting position let alone their contracts. 

I'll give them a pass on Hughes, But Wally Z and Big Ben?!? Then they trade the expirings for Shaq? Then Z for Jamison? He plays the same position as Lebron! They just kept on making bad move after bad move. Everyone knew he was leaving. The just didn't know where.


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

LeBron has his hand in a lot of those decisions the Cavaliers front office made. Their problem was that they were so eager to please LeBron that they let him run their franchise. Instead of selling LeBron about the moves they wanted to make, they let him sell them on the moves he wanted them to make. LeBron isn't the first superstar to prove he wouldn't be a good general manager. He's like Jordan in that regard.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



kbdullah said:


> LeBron has his hand in a lot of those decisions the Cavaliers front office made. Their problem was that they were so eager to please LeBron that they let him run their franchise.


No he didn't. Danny Ferry was the guy responsible for the disastrous free agent class of 2005, where the Cavs tied up $20 million in cap space in four players and got, literally, nothing to show for it. Every move that Ferry made after that point was an attempt to bail himself out of that horrific free agent class, and all he managed to do was dig the hole deeper. I actually feel sorry for Spurs fans, if Ferry's taking over, once Duncan retires you guys are in for an interminable rebuilding error.


----------



## Hyperion

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Here's a fun article on LeBron's decision



> “I’ve been on buses where the general manager gets on the bus and tells a player he’s traded. They don’t (let) him know ahead of time,” Silas said. “Why should (James) let people know? He did what he wanted to do and he had that right. He gave the Cavaliers seven great years.”


Here's a link on the Cavs asking Lebron who they should trade for last year:


> When presented with several trade proposals, LeBron James preferred Amare Stoudemire, a league source said.
> 
> ESPN reported on Saturday morning that Phoenix is absolutely looking for talent in return for Stoudemire and is not considering this a salary dump.
> 
> The Suns will almost certainly demand J.J. Hickson and a first round pick in return for Stoudemire.


But Hickson is SO good! A first round pick? When the Cavs were winning 60 games?!? That's like trading in a golden ticket for rocks! Fortunately for Cleveland, they went with Jamison who plays LeBron's position.


----------



## Tragedy

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Porn_Player said:


> I do agree, however the lack of etiquette shown is what most people gripe about. The Cavalier organisation (his employer) had been very good to LeBron and paid him a wealth of money while trying to get him the Championship he so desperately wanted. He showed them complete disrespect by not clueing them in on his actions following the climax of his contract.
> 
> It's bad form, and if you struggle to see that it's likely you have the same loose ethics as LeBron does.


Huh?

It's the reverse dude. Lebron has been very good to Cleveland and increased the value of that franchise more than they paid him. And he turned that team into a contender with them really only spending money on Lebron, causing them to rest on their laurels.

Considering everything going on he didn't need to clue them in on anything. I'd say the most he had to do if he had to do anything it would be to call the team before The Decision and tell them right before. But he'd still get the same reaction.

There's many instances where teams unceremoniously dump players who served the team well for years, guys who get traded without knowing it until AFTER it happens, players who are stars who hear the team has made a move before they're even made aware.

Don't use my comments on a situation that has nothing to do with me as a sign of my own ethics.

I'm capable of separating my emotions and how I'd do things and analyze how Lebron did what he did and why he may have done it that way.

So don't bark up that tree, because it seems you're trying to give yourself a pat on the back, thinking that you're such a stand up guy because you'd handle it differently.

You seem to forget that the NBA is a business, and it always has been.

One thing is certain, throughout the entire duration of his contract Lebron has done nothing but positive for that organization. Once that contract was complete he was allowed to do whatever he wanted. There were no more ties to the organization, it was strictly business.

Also the only other reason people feel this way about it is because that was his home state, but throughout his career all he ever said was "Akron is my home."

I think it's unfair to tie players to organization on this false sense, and yes it is false, of loyalty.

"We paid you so and so and gave you this opportunity, so you should be loyal to us."

How you guys can think like that is foolish. You're thinking as a skinny twerp who could only dream of the NBA. You have to take your own values and opinion out of it and realize that someone like Lebron would have gotten that "opportunity" from 29 other NBA teams.

Now, if this guy was a marginal nba talent whom the Cavaliers took a chance on, spent a lot of time and money developing, and he blossomed into a superstar? Then you can talk that loyalty, etiquette, and respect crap.

But we're talking about a player people knew would be the top pick since he was 16. A guy several teams tanked their season for who turned a middling franchise into a NBA powerhouse contender. 

And all they had to do was put a team around him. They didn't. Look at the moves they made. They weren't pressed to put a team around Lebron as they should have, because they took him for granted. They acted as if they could trot out the "stay home" line, and that he'd never do anything for himself.

I'm seriously tired of you guys thumbing your nose at someone when YOU can't even comprehend the situation for what it REALLY is.


----------



## Tragedy

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

I love how Dan Gilbert's classless reaction is somehow forgotten also.

Considering how big this Lebron's free agency decision was, don't you think if he told Cleveland he was leaving it would have gotten out somehow?

At least he agreed to a sign and trade to give them a huge trade exception. Why don't they use it to get better players? Maybe they're more concerned with saving money now?

And, you can see what Lebron meant to that franchise. They're completely lost. More proof that Lebron did more for Cleveland than they did for him. It's not like Cleveland gave him money and an opportunity he wouldn't have gotten elsewhere.

I have to repeat it because no one realizes this.

It's not like Cleveland gave him money and an opportunity he wouldn't have gotten elsewhere.

One more time.

It's not like Cleveland gave him money and an opportunity he wouldn't have gotten elsewhere.

If, for whatever reason Lebron slipped in the draft into the second round. Broke his leg in summer league, missed a season and had to work back, with the Cavaliers taking care of him, bringing him back to the player he was supposed to be, while giving him a contract no one else would have - then he'd be this villain everyone paints him out to be if he left.

The thing is, the Cavs got a gift from Lebron. The best time to build is when you have a young superstar on a rookie contract. They should have been busting their asses moving useless pieces. But then you see them making moves for guys like Delonte West, Mo Williams, considering JJ Hickson untouchable (a product of Lebron).

Hell he took that crappy team to the finals! Remember his 25 point fourth quarter outburst? With any other player they'd have been home, even Kobe would have been sent home (who always had problems with the Pistons defense)


----------



## Tragedy

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



yodurk said:


> It's good etiquette and a courtesy to the team that bowed down to you for 7 years.
> 
> In the the average joe situation, I'd equate this to working for a company that's been good to you for 7 years, then failing to give your 2 weeks notice, and just not showing up one day. If I were the manager, I'd be pissed even though no rules were broken.
> 
> Technically he wasn't "obligated", but there are countless actions that human beings are not obligated to do, yet would be the right thing to do.
> 
> /OT


But that same company, in years past, have laid off employees who've worked hard at that company for 20, 30 years while company officers still drew million dollar bonuses.

You see the reverse?

What's worse etiquette?

Everyone's crying for the billionaire Dan Gilbert. But I'm sure in his time he's fired people who've been nothing but loyal to him and his company.

And that analogy is weak.

It's more like this.

Average joe, is a contract worker for a company. You come out of college heavily recruited by all the other major companies, you throw all their names into a hat, and select the one that will get your services. They sign you to a three year contract, and then a four year contract. During that time you reach your potential and bring in a lot of money for the company - A LOT. 

Your contract is up, and you can either resign with the same company, or you can go elsewhere. A couple of your good friends are signing with a rival company and ask you to join. They'll have you but cant completely match your salary, but the area is much nicer and you're looking for a change.

So you leave. You sign the contract and go. No two week notice needed, the contract is fulfilled. Your current employer knows that you're free to stay or sign. But in that time your company couldn't overtake market share from the leaders in the industry (Lakers/Celtics/Magic), but you know coupled with your friends the three of you and some other good workers with different specializations can gain the biggest market share.


You're current employer knows that they can't do it with just you, but they know they can't get anyone else to come. The manager is upset because they know without you they can never get it done, but they also know that even with you they couldn't overtake other companies because they don't have the means to attract other top level talent, and overpaid for lesser talent. So you make your mind up and tell your employer you are signing with someone else, and go that same day.

THAT is what it's like.

Not some BS leaving without two weeks notice.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Hyperion said:


> But Hickson is SO good! A first round pick? When the Cavs were winning 60 games?!? That's like trading in a golden ticket for rocks! Fortunately for Cleveland, they went with Jamison who plays LeBron's position.


I know, right? If the price is Hickson and three unprotected picks (the max allowable in a deal) then you make it, sign Stoudemire to an extension, and laugh all the way to the finals running LeBron/Amar'e pick & rolls.


----------



## Tragedy

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

And I'm done with this Lebron crap. If you guys want to continue, all I can say is




sour grapes.


Ron, you might feel the same way about Kobe if that trade demand didn't wake Mitch up. It also helped having that connection in Memphis, and memphis taking a deal for pennies on the dollar (at the time), which is now them trading one dollar for 30 cents in return.


----------



## gk28

*'Melo to Bulls- Is he Jordan or Pippen?*

Carmelo has had a little bit of talk about him wanting to play in Chicago. Hypothetically say a trade is done and Anthony is suddenly a Bull. Does Derrick Rose play a Michael Jordan role or is that up to Carmelo? I personally think that if Carmelo goes to the Bulls he'll have to get used to the idea of being a sidekick. Derrick Rose isn't necessarily a better player right now, but by the time Rose is in his prime, he'll have won an MVP and will have established himself as the best point guard in the league (Charles Barkley has already claimed that Rose is the best point guard in the NBA).


----------



## Hyperion

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



E.H. Munro said:


> I know, right? If the price is Hickson and three unprotected picks (the max allowable in a deal) then you make it, sign Stoudemire to an extension, and laugh all the way to the finals running LeBron/Amar'e pick & rolls.


seriously. I was sitting there wondering who the hell jj hickson was and amazed that the cavs weren't jumping on that deal without hesitation. It was like the incompetent gm super bowl and the cavs won... Well lost.


----------



## JerryWest

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

LeBron purposely screwed over the Cavs to make himself look good. He made his decision late so that the Cavs wouldn't have any time for any plan B. The worse the Cavs ended up, the more self important he could feel about himself. He completely lead the franchise on and egged them on to get vets like shaq in order to boost his own perception when he had no intention of staying. If the Cavs knew he was going to leave for sure, at least they could have gotten value for him. That's a very generous thing that Melo did for the Nuggets. Letting his club know in advance so they wouldn't lose a star for nothing. One of the reasons why the Cavs were never able to sign marquee free agents is because LeBron would never commit. Every star that considered joining Cavs would ask LeBron are you staying and he'd give them a non commitment.

Your just a lame homer if you don't see any problem the Decision special on ESPN. There was no need for that and there was no need for him to drag out some joke production when he just wanted to ride Wade's coattails from the beginning.


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Tragedy said:


> Ok guys. I don't mean to turn the topic of this thread. I had to say something about it and I did. I think it's annoying when I click a thread from the main forum only to found I wasted my time clicking on a BS (pun FULLY intended) thread. It's a frustrating thing to see what could be an interesting topic only to find poor humor. That's it.


Ever try the ignore list? If not you have no right to complain


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: 'Melo to Bulls- Is he Jordan or Pippen?*

He is rich man Deng or poor man LeBron.


----------



## Dre

*Re: 'Melo to Bulls- Is he Jordan or Pippen?*

Maybe Jordan and Pippen should stay back in the time Jordan and Pippen had those roles


----------



## futuristxen

*Re: 'Melo to Bulls- Is he Jordan or Pippen?*

How about he's Paul Pierce to Rose's Rondo/Ray Allen combo. And if they kept Noah he could be KG. They're closer to recreating the celtics IMO than the 90s Bulls.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Some of New York fans lack of logic. They thought they paid Eddy Curry 5 million trade kicker. The team that get him will save 5 million luxury tax. Where is the logic?

Knicks are 17th best team in the nba, IMO. I compare these Knicks fan to Eddy Curry and Isiah Thomas.

Knicks are a below average team.


----------



## Diable

*Re: 'Melo to Bulls- Is he Jordan or Pippen?*


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Tragedy said:


> It's more like this.
> 
> Average joe, is a contract worker for a company. You come out of college heavily recruited by all the other major companies, you throw all their names into a hat, and select the one that will get your services. They sign you to a three year contract, and then a four year contract. During that time you reach your potential and bring in a lot of money for the company - A LOT.
> 
> Your contract is up, and you can either resign with the same company, or you can go elsewhere. A couple of your good friends are signing with a rival company and ask you to join. They'll have you but cant completely match your salary, but the area is much nicer and you're looking for a change.
> 
> So you leave. You sign the contract and go. No two week notice needed, the contract is fulfilled. Your current employer knows that you're free to stay or sign. But in that time your company couldn't overtake market share from the leaders in the industry (Lakers/Celtics/Magic), but you know coupled with your friends the three of you and some other good workers with different specializations can gain the biggest market share.
> 
> 
> You're current employer knows that they can't do it with just you, but they know they can't get anyone else to come. The manager is upset because they know without you they can never get it done, but they also know that even with you they couldn't overtake other companies because they don't have the means to attract other top level talent, and overpaid for lesser talent. So you make your mind up and tell your employer you are signing with someone else, and go that same day.
> 
> THAT is what it's like.
> 
> Not some BS leaving without two weeks notice.


You know, when I work for other companies (on site), it's as a contract worker (I'm a terrible employee, but a pretty good contractor), and I have some horror stories. One of the more outrageous ones involved a financial analysis/communications company. 

They hired me on a six month contract to teach their marketing department how to use their new Oracle database and to work with their development department testing the custom application (essentially as I was teaching the marketing weasels to use the front end I was supposed to chart all the bugs in the front end). 

After four months they let me know that they were going cut the contract after five months because the front end was fully debugged, the marketing department was up to speed using the database, and all that was left was to help the tech department debug the new client-side web application. I contacted the agency that had shipped me there to let me know, and someone in their web development division called me to ask if I'd sign a two year contract with them in exchange for a free web development boot camp course, which I agreed to.

Anyway, I'd made arrangements to fly down to New York for the course, only to have the company tell me that they'd changed their mind and wanted to keep me on for another month anyway, which was a giant ****ing hassle (because the agency only scheduled these sessions every three months). They didn't give a **** that they were costing me money, and that they were inconveniencing me, they just kept pointing to the contract that they'd previously told me was going to be cut short.

In short, out here in the real world large companies think nothing of screwing with their contract workers. They don't even care about their employees. I once moved to take a job with a telecommunications company that changed its mind about running its own ISP nine weeks after I arrived and laid off 80% of their tech support department, myself included, no notice, no severance pay, just a "Clean out your desk and leave". I have no sympathy for the Cadavaliers.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Kenneth said:


> LeBron purposely screwed over the Cavs to make himself look good. He made his decision late so that the Cavs wouldn't have any time for any plan B.


He made his decision the second signing day of free agency. The Cadavaliers had plenty of time for "Plan B". What they didn't have was a "Plan B". Brian Shaw made that observation in explaining why he'd refused the job. They literally had no contingency plans for James' departure.



Kenneth said:


> He completely lead the franchise on and egged them on to get vets like shaq in order to boost his own perception when he had no intention of staying.


Could we please stop repeating Danny Ferry's self-serving stories? Hyperion already linked to the story about the vet that James wanted but that Ferry wouldn't trade for because he'd made JJ ****ing Hickson untouchable. LeBron wasn't the guy that went out and tied up $20 million in cap space in Larry Hughes, Demon Damon Jones, and the corpses of Donyell Marshall and Alan Henderson. And he sure as hell wasn't the guy that traded Hughes for Ben Wallace's corpse and Wally Szczerbiak Szczuperstar.




Kenneth said:


> If the Cavs knew he was going to leave for sure, at least they could have gotten value for him. That's a very generous thing that Melo did for the Nuggets. Letting his club know in advance so they wouldn't lose a star for nothing.


So, by refusing a deal that would speed up the Nuggets rebuilding process, and refusing to sign an extension with any team that proposes a deal, meaning that if they do deal Anthony they'll actually get _less_ than Cleveland got for LeBron, Anthony's being "generous"? The Cavs could always have got value for James. Gilbert should have been smart enough to fire Ferry after his first year on the job. At the very least when Ferry struck out on the trade front last year he could have approached James ahead of time to work out a list of his preferred destinations and got value that way.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Are people still going in on LeBron/Cavs..that is soooo 2010


----------



## Tragedy

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



E.H. Munro said:


> You know, when I work for other companies (on site), it's as a contract worker (I'm a terrible employee, but a pretty good contractor), and I have some horror stories. One of the more outrageous ones involved a financial analysis/communications company.
> 
> They hired me on a six month contract to teach their marketing department how to use their new Oracle database and to work with their development department testing the custom application (essentially as I was teaching the marketing weasels to use the front end I was supposed to chart all the bugs in the front end).
> 
> After four months they let me know that they were going cut the contract after five months because the front end was fully debugged, the marketing department was up to speed using the database, and all that was left was to help the tech department debug the new client-side web application. I contacted the agency that had shipped me there to let me know, and someone in their web development division called me to ask if I'd sign a two year contract with them in exchange for a free web development boot camp course, which I agreed to.
> 
> Anyway, I'd made arrangements to fly down to New York for the course, only to have the company tell me that they'd changed their mind and wanted to keep me on for another month anyway, which was a giant ****ing hassle (because the agency only scheduled these sessions every three months). They didn't give a **** that they were costing me money, and that they were inconveniencing me, they just kept pointing to the contract that they'd previously told me was going to be cut short.
> 
> In short, out here in the real world large companies think nothing of screwing with their contract workers. They don't even care about their employees. I once moved to take a job with a telecommunications company that changed its mind about running its own ISP nine weeks after I arrived and laid off 80% of their tech support department, myself included, no notice, no severance pay, just a "Clean out your desk and leave". I have no sympathy for the Cadavaliers.


These kids in here don't know about the real world man.

They just don't

They don't realize that to someone like Lebron, while basketball is a game to be played it's also a job and a business.

I don't get how people are saying Lebron didn't give them a chance for a plan B.

YOU SHOULD HAVE A PLAN B REGARDLESS!!!!!!!!!!

It's THEIR fault they didn't have a plan in place. You're supposed to do these things. That's what the GM is paid for. Don't you think there's tons of calls being made throughout the season for trades the public never even hear rumors about? It's called due diligence, and the Cavs didn't do it.

PERIOD.

They should have had free agents or trades in place. They should be thankful they have their trade exception, but I doubt they even use that!


----------



## Tragedy

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Ballscientist said:


> Some of New York fans lack of logic. They thought they paid Eddy Curry 5 million trade kicker. The team that get him will save 5 million luxury tax. Where is the logic?
> 
> Knicks are 17th best team in the nba, IMO. I compare these Knicks fan to Eddy Curry and Isiah Thomas.
> 
> Knicks are a below average team.



Let me entertain this foolishness.

You should do research before you post. It's a 15% or 5 million trade kicker, and here's the key - it's whichever is LESS.

So say his contract was 115 million dollars, and they traded him with 100 million left. It's the lesser of 15% or 5 million. 15 percent is 15 million, so the team trading him will have to pay him an additional FIVE million. The lesser of the two.

Now with 10 million left in his contract, it's 15% or 5 million, whichever is less. Since the 15% will be LESS, they'll pay the 15%.

The Knicks paid most of his salary. So if they trade him before the deadline they team receiving him will pay 15% of the 2.4 million left to be paid on his contract. Some crap like that. The knicks can send the maximum 3 million dollars to whichever team takes curry.

So basically a team takes Curry and essentially doesn't have to pay much for him. They won't be taking on the salary because the Knicks paid it.

here's another thing with NBA salaries. 20% of the yearly salary has to be paid on regular NBA paydays. I think another 9% is held in escrow. Say you had a 10 million dollar contract. 900,000 is held in escrow, and a team can pay $2,000,000 on regular paydays.

So there $7.1 million dollars an NBA team can pay a player at the beginning of the season if they wanted to.

Some posters lack of IQ. I compare them to Drew Gooden.

Drew Gooden is a player of below average bball intelligence.


----------



## Tragedy

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Jamel Irief said:


> Ever try the ignore list? If not you have no right to complain


Pot, meet kettle.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: 'Melo to Bulls- Is he Jordan or Pippen?*

he's Alex English


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Tragedy said:


> These kids in here don't know about the real world man.
> 
> They just don't
> 
> They don't realize that to someone like Lebron, while basketball is a game to be played it's also a job and a business.
> 
> I don't get how people are saying Lebron didn't give them a chance for a plan B.
> 
> YOU SHOULD HAVE A PLAN B REGARDLESS!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> It's THEIR fault they didn't have a plan in place. You're supposed to do these things. That's what the GM is paid for. Don't you think there's tons of calls being made throughout the season for trades the public never even hear rumors about? It's called due diligence, and the Cavs didn't do it.
> 
> PERIOD.
> 
> They should have had free agents or trades in place. They should be thankful they have their trade exception, but I doubt they even use that!


Really, once Danny Ferry ****ed the poodle on Amar'e and traded for a 34 year old tweener forward instead Gilbert should have talked to James to find out where he wanted to go so that the Cavs could have got better value for him. But they were in complete denial. And that alone was reason for James to bail on that ship.


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*Re: 'Melo to Bulls- Is he Jordan or Pippen?*



Dre™ said:


> Maybe Jordan and Pippen should stay back in the time Jordan and Pippen had those roles


Was Jordan Magic or Kareem?


----------



## e-monk

*Re: 'Melo to Bulls- Is he Jordan or Pippen?*

he was Jerry West


----------



## Dissonance

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Kerr said, Suns were never going to do that deal whether it had Hickson in it or not. And it never was as close as the media kept reporting it because it was not enough and they couldn't find a 3rd team to add more. They wanted to keep it a playoff team and Hickson doesn't do that.


----------



## Dre

*Re: 'Melo to Bulls- Is he Jordan or Pippen?*



e-monk said:


> he was Jerry West


Who was Cousy


----------



## Dre

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Yeah Ferry had to go to plan B after the Suns said once and for all the deal wasn't happening and time was running out.


----------



## Pump Bacon

*Re: 'Melo to Bulls- Is he Jordan or Pippen?*

Jordan and Pippen actually played damn good D so Melo's neither of 'em 

If he did go to Chicago he'd probably be the 1B option behind Rose. Melo's not a point-forward so he still needs someone to pass him the ball. Rose would feed Melo great looks because of the defensive attention he gets.

Melo has played with the likes of Allen Iverson before so I don't think he'd have much of a problem with sharing the rock.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Cleveland also refused to deal Hickson. They wanted a salary dump, apparently Ferry's contingency plan, Plan 9 from Cleveland, involved building around a garbageman.


----------



## Vuchato

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Didn't basically everyone assume he would re-sign with the Cavs until the playoffs anyways?


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Tragedy said:


> Pot, meet kettle.


What do I complain about that I have technical ability to ignore?


----------



## Dre

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Vuchato said:


> Didn't basically everyone assume he would re-sign with the Cavs until the playoffs anyways?


No. Maybe some people on here did, but some people on here believe a lot of things. 

Gilbert was terrified he was leaving which is why he placated him for 3 years, gave his friends jobs etc. 

I always said if the Cavs didn't win the title he was probably leaving. If they had Amare and lost a close game 7 maybe he stayed..but there was no way he was going to keep going to the edge of the earth to support a bunch of weaklings and lose anyway.


----------



## edabomb

*Re: 'Melo to Bulls- Is he Jordan or Pippen?*



Ballscientist said:


> He is rich man Deng or poor man LeBron.


QFT.

That'd give Chicago a nice looking squad. But then compare it to Miami and it's still not close talent wise, has a bit more depth though.


----------



## Dre

*Re: 'Melo to Bulls- Is he Jordan or Pippen?*

Doesn't need to be close talent wise, as long as they do what they do well on a high level they can compete.

Thing about it is Melo isn't a Bull unless Noah isn't which keeps them on the same level if they're lucky. If they had the money to pay him that would be something different.


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: 'Melo to Bulls- Is he Jordan or Pippen?*

The closest comparison is the Durant/Westbrook combo.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Vuchato said:


> Didn't basically everyone assume he would re-sign with the Cavs until the playoffs anyways?


I think most people realised that the dream was over when Danny Ferry's masterstroke was Antawn Jamison.


----------



## Ron

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Tragedy said:


> And I'm done with this Lebron crap. If you guys want to continue, all I can say is
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sour grapes.
> 
> 
> Ron, you might feel the same way about Kobe if that trade demand didn't wake Mitch up. It also helped having that connection in Memphis, and memphis taking a deal for pennies on the dollar (at the time), which is now them trading one dollar for 30 cents in return.


By that time I was sick of Kobe and his bull**** and wanted him gone.

And if I was the GM, I would have moved him. Obviously, in hindsight, that would have been a bad move.

Mitch has the patience of Job and its a good thing that he does.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

His "bull****", his being upset that his front office let him down and didn't put the pieces around him to win like they promised him they would? What kind of egotistical scumbag...


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Dre™ said:


> His "bull****", his being upset that his front office let him down and didn't put the pieces around him to win like they promised him they would? What kind of egotistical scumbag...


What amused me is you never heard jack about the supporting cast being incompentent during each of the prior two regular seasons.


----------



## Ron

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Dre™ said:


> His "bull****", his being upset that his front office let him down and didn't put the pieces around him to win like they promised him they would? What kind of egotistical scumbag...


What a bunch of nonsense. He had the pieces, of course he did...then he goes out and blisters Andrew Bynum in some ****ing parking lot on tape and he knew that had to get out.

He needed patience. And then look what the front office did for him. Do you really think Kobe needs to expect a title every ****ing year? Isn't this the same Kobe who screwed up 2004 when the Lakers got Malone and Payton to run for a title and then he goes to Colorado and literally ****s everything up? Tell me just two years later why its okay for him to cry like a baby in a parking lot about the Lakers' center of the future and not keep that in-house.

Just try.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Ron said:


> What a bunch of nonsense. He had the pieces, of course he did...then he goes out and blisters Andrew Bynum in some ****ing parking lot on tape and he knew that had to get out.
> 
> He needed patience. And then look what the front office did for him. Do you really think Kobe needs to expect a title every ****ing year? Isn't this the same Kobe who screwed up 2004 when the Lakers got Malone and Payton to run for a title and then he goes to Colorado and literally ****s everything up? Tell me just two years later why its okay for him to cry like a baby in a parking lot about the Lakers' center of the future and not keep that in-house.
> 
> Just try.


So Laker fans are really going to tell me they don't understand him being upset with Chucky Atkins and Smush Parker and Chris Mihm..is this what I'm hearing

And yes, if I'm putting a title around somebody I want them to be thirsty for a title every year. Why do you think MJ improved incrementally every year until he won and still maintained his excellence. Like are you serious?

Do I expect a superstar to want a title every year? When you're the same fanbase that cream yourselves about his will to win and focus?

And yeah Kobe helped ruin the Shaq/Kobe era, but he only signed back with you guys because he had a promise things were going to be right back to winning titles. It took him saying he wanted out for Kupchak to get off his ass and look for someone who was actually going to help him win something. Don't try to rewrite history.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Jamel Irief said:


> What amused me is you never heard jack about the supporting cast being incompentent during each of the prior two regular seasons.


And how much of a whiny punk would you have made him if he did the same thing for two offseasons? Catch 22 and you know it.


----------



## Ron

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Dre™ said:


> So Laker fans are really going to tell me they don't understand him being upset with Chucky Atkins and Smush Parker and Chris Mihm..is this what I'm hearing
> 
> And yes, if I'm putting a title around somebody I want them to be thirsty for a title every year. Why do you think MJ improved incrementally every year until he won and still maintained his excellence. Like are you serious?
> 
> Do I expect a superstar to want a title every year? When you're the same fanbase that cream yourselves about his will to win and focus?
> 
> And yeah Kobe helped ruin the Shaq/Kobe era, but he only signed back with you guys because he had a promise things were going to be right back to winning titles. It took him saying he wanted out for Kupchak to get off his ass and look for someone who was actually going to help him win something. Don't try to rewrite history.


:laugh: :lol:

You are the same person who will say, "Lakers robbed Memphis in the Pau Gasol trade."

Yeah, sure...like Kobe saw that one coming.

Give me a freakin' break.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Ron said:


> :laugh: :lol:
> 
> You are the same person who will say, "Lakers robbed Memphis in the Pau Gasol trade."
> 
> Yeah, sure...like Kobe saw that one coming.
> 
> Give me a freakin' break.


What does that have to do with *anything* Ron...correlate that for me.


----------



## Ron

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Dre™ said:


> So Laker fans are really going to tell me they don't understand him being upset with Chucky Atkins and Smush Parker and Chris Mihm..is this what I'm hearing


They also had Lamar Odom and Caron Butler on that team. Funny you didn't mention those two guys.

But then I guess that really wouldn't support your lame argument.


----------



## Ron

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Dre™ said:


> What does that have to do with *anything* Ron...correlate that for me.


Ah, I need to explain every little detail for you.

Okay, here goes...

(1) You stated that Kobe only stayed with the Lakers because they promised to make them get more competitive.

(2) My point is, a certain amount of faith on Kobe's part had to be part of the overall commitment to stay. How could he have predicted that the Lakers were going to be able to pull off something like the Pau Gasol trade?

There you go. Connect the dots.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Ron said:


> They also had Lamar Odom and Caron Butler on that team. Funny you didn't mention those two guys.
> 
> But then I guess that really wouldn't support your lame argument.


So we can replace Atkins and Mihm *with* Odom and Butler. That still isn't winning a damn thing anywhere. The Lakers promised him one thing, did another for 2 years, and had to deal with him trying to leave out the door before they made a real move. 

Is that a lame argument, or is that truth? I want anyone who's viewing this thread's opinion.


----------



## Ron

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Dre™ said:


> So we can replace Atkins and Mihm *with* Odom and Butler. That still isn't winning a damn thing anywhere. The Lakers promised him one thing, did another for 2 years, and had to deal with him trying to leave out the door before they made a real move.


If you look closer, you will find that all those guys were on the team at the same time. Truth be known, the Lakers expected a hell of a lot more out of Mihm and Jumaine Jones than they got...but that's basketball.



> Is that a lame argument, or is that truth? I want anyone who's viewing this thread's opinion.


:laugh:

Aw, come on Dre, I am sure you can stand on your own two feet.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Ron said:


> Ah, I need to explain every little detail for you.
> 
> Okay, here goes...
> 
> (1) You stated that Kobe only stayed with the Lakers because they promised to make them get more competitive.
> 
> (2) My point is, a certain amount of faith on Kobe's part had to be part of the overall commitment to stay. How could he have predicted that the Lakers were going to be able to pull off something like the Pau Gasol trade?
> 
> There you go. Connect the dots.


You're still not saying anything. 

The Gasol trade didn't occur until they were fielding offers for Kobe himself. If Kobe would've never opened his mouth and kept putting up 33 point seasons I'm convinced the Lakers would still be a 45 win team right now. 

So like I said, it took for Kobe to ask out before they made a move. That may or may not be ridiculous and/or lame, but it's the truth nonetheless.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Ron said:


> If you look closer, you will find that all those guys were on the team at the same time. Truth be known, the Lakers expected a hell of a lot more out of Mihm and Jumaine Jones than they got...but that's basketball.


And what kind of GM expects anything out of them, even at the time? And even if they had performed to maximum effort, with Butler and Odom, that was really going to win a title?



> :laugh:
> 
> Aw, come on Dre, I am sure you can stand on your own two feet.


It's not about me standing on my two feet because you're really not presenting much of a counterpoint. I was just trying to get a consensus to show you how stupid you sound right now.


----------



## Ron

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Dre™ said:


> You're still not saying anything.
> 
> The Gasol trade didn't occur until they were fielding offers for Kobe himself. If Kobe would've never opened his mouth and kept putting up 33 point seasons I'm convinced the Lakers would still be a 45 win team right now.
> 
> So like I said, it took for Kobe to ask out before they made a move. That may or may not be ridiculous and/or lame, but it's the truth nonetheless.


Maybe you are not reading it close enough.

I am asking you, how does Kobe know that the Lakers are going to pull off such a trade? Some of his reasoning to stay has to be borne with faith.


----------



## Ron

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Dre™ said:


> It's not about me standing on my two feet because you're really not presenting much of a counterpoint. I was just trying to get a consensus to show you how stupid you sound right now.


You know, you really need to check yourself with comments like this. I would expect much better from you.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Merged (Again):Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

LOL. 

It's not about faith if the only reason they made a trade was because he asked to leave. 

I could see if they proactively made that deal but they were desperate to appease him at that point and were probably on the phone all day for weeks. 

If they had made the Gasol trade or something similar in caliber in the two years following I could agree with you that Kobe had faith and they delivered for him, but..that's not the case. No matter how much gold and purple you bleed it isn't.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Ron said:


> You know, you really need to check yourself with comments like this. I would expect much better from you.


That post isn't meant in any way malicious towards you, but if you're making a bunch of weak points I'm going to call it out.


----------



## Ron

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Dre™ said:


> That post isn't meant in any way malicious towards you, but if you're making a bunch of weak points I'm going to call it out.


I'm done here.

At least the "Angry Kobe" part of the thread.


----------



## Tragedy

*Re: Merged (Again):Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Lebron was going to be KG 2.0 had he stayed in Cleveland.

*edit* just to expound on this. If he stayed, Cleveland wouldn't be in a position to sign free agents for another season, and with NY getting pieces, Miami getting Bosh and Wade, Chicago getting better, LA, OKC, Orlando. 

He'd pretty much be what Jordan would be if he were drafted to Chicago in 1980 and not 1984.


[/topic]


----------



## e-monk

*Re: Merged (Again):Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

why were these threads merged? am I missing something? you might as well just lock them down


----------



## Ron

*Re: Merged (Again):Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Tragedy said:


> Lebron was going to be KG 2.0 had he stayed in Cleveland.
> 
> [/topic]


Actually...

[topic]
Billy King seemed stunned that the Nets' owner pulled the plug.

I wondered how much they talked before the impromptu press conference?

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports....re-moving-on-keeping-flexibility-for-new-cba/
[/topic]


----------



## Ron

*Re: Merged (Again):Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



e-monk said:


> why were these threads merged? am I missing something? you might as well just lock them down


A 'Melo to Chicago thread was merged with this one. A couple of pages ago before all the Kobe stuff was interspersed. I can see where that might be confusing.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Merged (Again):Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Tragedy said:


> Lebron was going to be KG 2.0 had he stayed in Cleveland.
> 
> *edit* just to expound on this. If he stayed, Cleveland wouldn't be in a position to sign free agents for another season, and with NY getting pieces, Miami getting Bosh and Wade, Chicago getting better, LA, OKC, Orlando.
> 
> He'd pretty much be what Jordan would be if he were drafted to Chicago in 1980 and not 1984.
> 
> 
> [/topic]


That wasn't going to happen though because LeBron is who he is.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: Merged (Again):Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Ron said:


> A 'Melo to Chicago thread was merged with this one. A couple of pages ago before all the Kobe stuff was interspersed. I can see where that might be confusing.


it's always all about Kobe - even as a Lakers fan that can get a little tiresome


----------



## Diable

*Re: Merged (Again):Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

I'm too lazy to figure out what's going on in this thread...Well I don't really care much about this any more. They can trade Melo to CSKA for Trajan Langdon and I'd be okay with it.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Merged (Again):Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

At this point the thread is devoted to a stagnant situation so we might as well have a couple debates before something real pops up again


----------



## Tragedy

*Re: Merged (Again):Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Dre™ said:


> That wasn't going to happen though because LeBron is who he is.


Exactly. And being who he is he got the hell out to Miami, rather than wait until after his peak to form a super team.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: Merged (Again):Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

calling plays for Batoum - things are dark indeed in Portland but hey it worked

oops wrong thread but wtf does matter with this one anyway does it?


----------



## Dre

*Re: Merged (Again):Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



> "There's concern about it in terms of the amount of liberties that players have to make a living in whatever city they choose to in terms of playing basketball,'' said Bryant, speaking after a practice at the Pepsi Center in preparation for Friday's game against Denver. "At the end of the day, it's just basketball. I'm sure our business folks will work out that end of the deal. And it will be all good.''
> 
> Bryant asked to be traded entering the 2007-08 season. He admits he had more leverage than most players due to his contract.
> 
> "I kind of had the upper hand because I had a no-trade clause,'' Bryant said. "My situation was a little different.''
> 
> Bryant was upset the Lakers weren't spending the money to put enough talent around him. But that all changed when they dealt for All-Star big man Pau Gasol on Feb. 1, 2008. The result has been three straight Finals appearances and two consecutive NBA titles.
> 
> "I know for me it was all about winning,'' Bryant said. "In my situation, we weren't spending the money to get players (to the Lakers). They had me playing around with Smush Parker (an undrafted journeyman who started in the backcourt alongside Bryant from 2005-07). So until they decided they wanted to make the necessary sacrifice financially that was competitive, then I didn't want to be (with the Lakers).''
> 
> Lakers coach Phil Jackson called "it a pretty intense time for our team'' when Bryant requested a trade. Bryant was asked what would have happened if he hadn't have spoken out back then.
> 
> "I don't know,'' he said. "Probably just coast again. Just coast again. But I wasn't going for that.''
> 
> The Lakers didn't go for that either once there was a fear of Bryant eventually leaving as a free agent.
> 
> "They knew what (Bryant wanted),'' Bryant said. "Spend the money and get me some players here. The fans aren't dumb. They saw what I was playing with. (Bryant told management), 'You're going to have to step up to the plate a little bit.' They stepped up to the plate. They spent the money needed to. They signed Gasol, extended him (later). I had no issues.''


http://nba.fanhouse.com/2011/01/20/kobe-bryant-players-no-longer-control-their-own-destiny/


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: Merged (Again):Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Kobe told Phil and Kupchak he was "tired of being a sidekick." He was an idiot for complaining about the supporting cast and deserved to be called at as such.


----------



## Hyperion

*Re: Merged (Again):Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

But then they traded Butler, a 20ppg scorer for Kwame, a 7ppg scorer with hands made of stone.


----------



## Luke

*Re: Merged (Again):Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Hyperion said:


> But then they traded Butler, a 20ppg scorer for Kwame, a 7ppg scorer with hands made of stone.


Caron was and is still one of my favorite players in the league, but Kwame turned into Pau so I'm not complaining.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Merged (Again):Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Round 15

Warrriors top Knicks for melo offers.

http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/story/2011-01-21/warriors-owner-we-can-top-knicks-offers-for-melo

Is that wonderful? 

Warriors Curry >>>>>> Knicks Curry


----------



## Ron

*Re: Merged (Again):Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Come on BS.

There is nothing in that article that says an offer was made. In fact, it appears the GM won't even try because its obvious to him, just as it is obvious to everyone, that he wants to play in N.Y.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Merged (Again):Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

see


----------



## Spaceman Spiff

*Re: Merged (Again):Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

If Melo was interested in LA that would be a hell of a team.

Davis
Gordon
Melo
Griffin
Jordan

That team would be able to make a run for the 7th or 8th seed out west and be a major player next season. You think the Spurs or Lakers would want any parts of that in the first round?


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Merged (Again):Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

If I were running the Clippers I would make a lowball offer for the half season rental just to see how far the team could get.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Merged (Again):Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

No Dallas


----------



## HB

*Re: Merged (Again):Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

*Why the Knicks might take their time going after Melo*



> 3. The cost in dollars is too high
> If the Knicks trade for him now, they are almost certainly paying him the max over the next four seasons, which works out to more than $20 million per season.
> 
> If you add that to the $20 million per season that Amare Stoudemire is getting for the next four seasons, you can see that the vast majority of the Knicks' cap space will be tied up in two players, severely constricting their flexibility going forward.
> 
> (The current salary cap is about $58 million. The best estimates say that the new salary cap will be closer to $50 million, and it might be much firmer, preventing the Knicks from going over the cap to the extent they’ve done before.)


----------



## Diable

*Re: Merged (Again):Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

If there's a hard cap Miami will have to play 3 on 5 I guess, because those three guys will be making 50 million in a couple of years. Pretty obvious that the owners will want to eliminate MLE and other exceptions as well. Especially since no one in anyone's front office can resist the urge to use the MLE to make some franchise crippling deal with an aging journeyman.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Merged (Again):Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

I don't see how you could allow a hard cap without instituting rollbacks, which won't happen


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Merged (Again):Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Diable said:


> If there's a hard cap Miami will have to play 3 on 5 I guess, because those three guys will be making 50 million in a couple of years. Pretty obvious that the owners will want to eliminate MLE and other exceptions as well. Especially since no one in anyone's front office can resist the urge to use the MLE to make some franchise crippling deal with an aging journeyman.


Nets were trying to get 79 years old Billups and Hamilton to convince Melo. Heat can use minimun salary to sign free agents like Walker, McGrady, Marbury, Francis and Iverson. Some of them are even younger than Kobe Bryant.

This is my statement:

Both Nuggets and Nets general manager are very incapable to make any trades. They don't know how to use the friendship of the third team. If it is Trader Bob, ....


----------



## Ben

*Re: Merged (Again):Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Reportedly Nene is getting impatient with the Nuggets now too, seeing as he's a free agent in the summer, and they're solely focused on Melo. If they aren't careful, both Melo and Nene could end up going for nothing.


----------



## Diable

*Re: Merged (Again):Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

I just thought of something that might actually be a viable trade in concept. David West is going to opt out of a deal that would only pay him 7.5 Million next year. He'll probably get around 40 over 4 years. It looks like talks over an extension aren't really going anywhere. You'd have to work an S&T and frontload the hell out of it so that you could make the numbers somewhat close. 

Hornets don't have a first next year, but they might actually have some chance at getting Chris Paul to sweet talk Melo into an extension. Really who else could give the Nuggets anything better if they weren't going to get Melo to sign on the dotted line. Still for the Hornets right now West is a pretty good fit and Melo doesn't ****ing guard anyone really. I don't know that they'd want to mess with what they have now, or if they'd even be a better team since it'd be hard to integrate Melo quickly. No clue what else would be involved, but the Hornets do have some expirings.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Merged (Again):Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

I think most around the league are resigned to Carmelo joining the Knicks through hell, lockout, or paycut.

After what the Nets went through everyone is pretty scared off. I think the only person still brazen enough to go after it is Cuban.


----------



## Diable

*Re: Merged (Again):Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

This is just one guy who is leaving New Orleans for another guy who is leaving Denver. If the Nuggets could agree to an extension with West they'd end up with something....Really they'd need a third team that wanted West and had something they wanted to make it attractive to them. If Melo leaves at the end of the year you're in the same position as having West leave.


----------



## Dissonance

*Re: Merged (Again):Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Why would Melo want to go to New Orleans? Paul would have to do a lot more than sweet talking to get him to go there.


----------



## Diable

*Re: Merged (Again):Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Melo is under contract. I'm talking about a straight up rental and asking where that would actually put the Hornets.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Merged (Again):Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

I don't think it's worth it, because when West and Melo leave you're left with a Paul who tasted contention and had it snatched away from him. That's a risky proposition.


----------



## MemphisX

*Re: Merged (Again):Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

If I am Melo, I play out my contract and try to make 2012, 2010 all over again with Melo, DHo, CP3 and Deron.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Merged (Again):Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

That's what he should've done in the first place. This whole saga was just poorly managed all around. I think his handlers would have more pull in negotiations saying we can bring you Paul too instead of can you please take Rip and Chauncey also?

Not to mention in this climate the market is just limited, he had two realistic teams vying. Really dumb and done on a whim by Melo and his people.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Merged (Again):Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

I think 800 million pay cut is lock, but 100% rollback to existing contracts are not lock. Melo could lose 50 million dollars if he do not sign extension. There is no way that 800 million pay cut is better than this season.

Knicks like the Wolves unprotected first round. Is it 2013 first round? This is a perfect first step. The second step would get an all-star for Nuggets.

Knicks need to make the deal quickly and deliver the serious offer, Melo is starting to worrrrrry.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Merged (Again):Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



> And as one NBA executive close to the Denver and New Jersey front offices insisted on Tuesday: “I’ve seen better acting in soap operas than [Mikhail] Prokhorov’s performance. The Nets will be back in this thing, but they’ll be back in on their terms – not Denver’s.”
> 
> Maybe so, but the Nets won’t have leverage until the Nuggets’ front office re-engages them. The Nuggets started a five-game road trip East that’ll include a stop in Newark on Monday. “If anything, there’s no distractions there,” Anthony said. “They took the deal off the table.”
> Only, Anthony had pulled something from the Nets first: a meeting to discuss signing a contract extension once a trade was agreed upon between Denver and New Jersey. Before the Nets could finalize the meeting with him for Jan. 18, ’Melo became so miffed over the story seeping out into the public that he called it off.
> 
> And so started a series of deliberations in New Jersey that led to Prokhorov calling an end to the acrimonious trade talks. Anthony’s bailing on the Nets didn’t sit well with the Russian billionaire, who still had been debating his own involvement in a sales pitch, sources said. Nevertheless, Anthony cooled down, changed his mind and delivered word back to New Jersey last Tuesday that he wanted to discuss a possible extension with team officials.
> 
> Yet, Prokhorov met with Nets general manager Billy King, sought his counsel and they kept coming back to the same thing: Denver wanted to dump more salary on the Nets and was pushing to take more young players and picks. The Nets were livid that Denver tried to throw Renaldo Balkman(notes) into the deal, too. What’s more, ’Melo’s wildly up-and-down vibe on New Jersey conspired to make the Nets’ plan of action clearer for Prokhorov: They would cancel the meeting for Thursday, end the talks and perhaps revisit discussions closer to the Feb. 24 deadline.
> 
> Anthony “wanted to be courted,” said a league source connected with Denver and New Jersey in the talks. “He wanted to have the ring kissed. That’s just ’Melo. He loves this process. In the end, he wanted to meet with Prokhorov, but he had kind of showed him up and that was it.”
> 
> Anthony wants the Knicks, but he still wants his three-year, $65 million extension prior to the expected lockout. Perhaps this means the Nets aren’t out of it for good; perhaps it means they’ll re-enter to make New York pay a steeper price. No one pursued Anthony with the fervor of the beleaguered Nets. They’re on their way to Brooklyn, his birthplace, and that homecoming always appealed to him.


http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AmqhraAfsbiPRJ3X9h1ecfS8vLYF?slug=aw-anthonynuggets012611


----------



## Diable

*Re: Merged (Again):Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Really Melo would be walking out on 83 million over 4 years. He'd be opting out of 18 million next year plus the 65 million$ extension. I guess that's his business, but if I were advising him I might argue against that. If I were getting a cut I might argue somewhat more vigorously. If he thinks he'd make up 25 million in endorsements in NYC I'd think that was pretty optimistic. He's not Lebron and he's going to have split that pie with Amare and maybe someone else.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Merged (Again):Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Knicks have never made serious offer. Nuggets need to give Knicks one week deadline.

Gallo, Chandler or Fields should not be a center piece.


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: Merged (Again):Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

The Nuggets don't have enough leverage to give a deadline. Most GMs around the league think Melo would leave to NY in FA, so they are more or less exclusively waiting on NYK now. Considering the New Jersey Nets just called the Nuggets bluff, doubt they give anyone any more ultimatums.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Merged (Again):Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

The Nuggets are pretty much trying to convince themselves they like what the Knicks have to offer since they have no other option. They're warming to Anthony Randolph, so the Knicks don't even have to trade him for a pick probably. I heard the Nuggets aren't huge fans of Fields or Gallinari though and won't take Chandler back. It's going to be tough.

I don't blame the Nuggets, all things considered if there wasn't this Carmelo situation and the Knicks called me offering that junk for Carmelo I'd hang the phone up.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Merged (Again):Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Situation:
Nuggets believe that they can sign FA like Gallo, Fields or Chandler in summer. They don't want Eddy Curry in the package. 

Only solution:
Knicks just need to trade Eddy Curry expiring contract and two first rounders for an all-star, then send him to Nuggets.
Deadline is absolutely required ......

Did you remember Kwame for Pau Gasol?


----------



## Dre

*Re: Merged (Again):Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Ballscientist said:


> Situation:
> Nuggets believe that they can sign FA like Gallo, Fields or Chandler in summer. They don't want Eddy Curry in the package.
> 
> Only solution:
> Knicks just need to trade Eddy Curry expiring contract and two first rounders for an all-star, then send him to Nuggets.
> Deadline is absolutely required ......


That's BS, BS. The main reason the Nuggets don't want Chandler is because they don't want to have to deal with his re-signing situation. They don't want to have to pay him 8-10 mil to win 34 games. Curry is the base for the package because he provides cap relief. 

And like I said, the Nuggets aren't enamoured with Gallo or Fields even though they'll have to resign themselves to choosing one if things ever get serious. 

Walsh is playing his cards right, the Nets were desperate and allowed the Nuggets to change the deal every day, the Knicks have had the same framework available for a while, all it takes is for the Nuggets to ask them to change a thing or two and it seems like a better option than before.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Merged (Again):Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

And Prokhorov's vanity might have done him in. There was a meeting in place between him and Carmelo, Carmelo cancelled it but then reconsidered, but by that point Prokhorov was already upset at the public negotiations and Carmelo's reticence anyway, so he said he wouldn't reschedule a meeting and he was going to kill the deal. 

No way to honestly know if that's a negotiating ploy or not though, different people around the league have different opinions.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Merged (Again):Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Dre™;6470995 said:


> Curry is the base for the package because he provides cap relief.
> 
> all it takes is for the Nuggets to ask them to change a thing or two and it seems like a better option than before.


That is two true BS.

Nuggets have enough cap relief in summer. They don't need Eddy Curry. Nuggets immediately rejected the Knicks garbage trade offer. You can't just change a thing or two in the garbage offer.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Merged (Again):Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

The Knicks haven't made a second formal offer yet, and like I said with pretty much a one on one market the Nuggets have no choice but to get this over with or deal with it again whenever the league starts back up. 

And again, the Nuggets' MO is cap relief and a start for the future, Curry's contract is an integral piece of the deal, especially in terms of matching the salaries in the first place.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Merged (Again):Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Chandler is a good offensive player. All he can get is MLE. I'd give him a qualified offer. I strongly believe that only 4 teams will have over 5 million cap space this summer.

Kings
Wolves
Pacers?
Rockets

These 4 teams don't need Chandler.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Merged (Again):Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

FWIW, the Knicks hired the former Nuggets' GM as a consultant. He's also a CAA client. 

Some of those doomsday agent/power broker ran league scenarios that sprouted up after the Big 3 are probably more true then we want to believe, in hindsight. They're trying to build one big power circle.


----------



## 29380

*Re: Merged (Again):Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

*N.Y. or bust for ‘Melo?*


> Several sources told Yahoo! Sports that Carmelo Anthony’s agent, Leon Rose, has recently begun informing teams that the All-Star forward is interested in signing a contract extension with only the New York Knicks. The stance has weakened the Denver Nuggets’ leverage in trying to deal Anthony, not only to other teams, but also the Knicks.
> 
> The sources said the Knicks don’t feel pressed to present a substantial trade offer to the Nuggets because they think they can also sign Anthony after the season if he opts out of his contract, as expected.
> 
> “If you’re New York, you just sit and wait until the offseason,” one general manager said. “That’s where it’s likely to go. Why give up assets to get him now when you can wait and get him next season?”
> 
> Said another source: “If ’Melo is telling the world he wants to go [to New York], why fight so hard to get him? [Knicks president] Donnie Walsh knows this.”
> 
> Though there’s less than three weeks before the Feb. 24 trade deadline, a deal for Anthony isn’t imminent. Sources said the Houston Rockets and Dallas Mavericks still have interest in Anthony despite knowing he doesn’t plan to re-sign with them.
> 
> “Don’t blame ’Melo. He’s been up front about wanting to go to New York since the summer,” one source close to the talks said. “They better trade him to New York or end up with nothing.”


----------



## HB

*Re: Merged (Again):Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Please trade this guy already so the Nuggets can get out of playoff position but weird enough its not like he has been playing that great this year.


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*Re: Merged (Again):Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Carmelo has handcuffed Denver. He isn't getting traded.


----------



## Dissonance

*Re: Merged (Again):Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Everything that comes out just keeps reaffirming what I've been saying since the start of the yr. He's going to NY sooner or later.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Merged (Again):Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

New York is sitting back 'cause they know he's coming there either way. No sense in overpaying him. 

And despite what people here continue to say he's willing to go into free agency.


----------



## Noyze

*Re: Merged (Again):Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Wow, Denver got owned. Trade him for hardly anything or let him leave for nothing basically.


----------



## MemphisX

*Re: Merged (Again):Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Lol...if I am Denver, I keep him all season and refuse to sign and trade him this summer.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Merged (Again):Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

If he couldn't opt out that might be viable...unless you're saying it's for the extra years Denver can give him..and again I say Melo isn't trippin off that. 

And if Cleveland could end up trading LeBron for a player exception you know they're gonna want something off him if it gets to that point. What point are you trying to prove not bringing anything back to your franchise from a guy who does not want to be there


----------



## Hyperion

*Re: Merged (Again):Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

That lebron equals 50 wins to a team.


----------



## Diable

*Re: Merged (Again):Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Anything you get from the knicks is going to be no better than letting Melo expire. In fact if they're only offering players you don't want then screw that, it's worse than nothing. So long as I am in the playoff picture I'm not making a move either.


----------



## Dissonance

*Re: Merged (Again):Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



> Knicks, Nuggets, Wolves discussing trade. Melo to NYK; Chandler, Corey Brewer, Min 1st to Den; ECurry, ARandolph to Min


Chris_Broussard


----------



## Dre

*Re: Merged (Again):Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

I think they're discussing how many shots it would take to consummate that


----------



## Diable

*Re: Merged (Again):Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Not seeing how this helps the Wolves...That doesn't seem like a realistic deal if you're Minnesota. This is a weak draft, but they are almost sure to get a top five pick,,,Or is this someone else's pick that that they have? They just passed on Cousins to take Wesley Johnson who pretty much plays the same position as Randolph also


----------



## Kidd

*Re: Merged (Again):Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Man the Nuggets really screwed themselves by not taking that Nets deal.


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: Merged (Again):Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Diable said:


> Not seeing how this helps the Wolves...That doesn't seem like a realistic deal if you're Minnesota. This is a weak draft, but they are almost sure to get a top five pick,,,Or is this someone else's pick that that they have? They just passed on Cousins to take Wesley Johnson who pretty much plays the same position as Randolph also


Yeah I wouldn't understand why the Timberwolves do this either. And the Nuggets would only get Corey Brewer, a high 1st, and a good restricted free agent.


----------



## Diable

*Re: Merged (Again):Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Brian said:


> Man the Nuggets really screwed themselves by not taking that Nets deal.


There was never a deal, unless you somehow believe the Nets were going to give up the ship without ever getting Melo to agree to an extension.


----------



## Tragedy

*Re: Merged (Again):Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

I don't get where Minnesota benefits, unless they think Randolph is going to be better than who they can get in the draft. 

Then again looking at Brewers' contract they probably don't want to pick that option up or have to pay a restricted free agent more than they want. Randolph is under contract next season, and if it's near the deadline eddy curry might not cost Minnesota much at all.


----------



## hroz

*Re: Merged (Again):Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

If I was Denver.

Id be trying to get Douglas/Fields/Chandler for Carmelo.

Then I would trade Billups/Harrington to the Kings for Landry,Whiteside,Greene. Maybe even a second rounder.
Then use the +$25 million expiring to sign players. (They should be about 13 million under the cap.)
Re-sign Landry as well.

Nene Andersen
Landry ????
Chandler Greene
Fields
Lawson Douglas

Desperartely need a superstar but its looking better.


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: Merged (Again):Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Wait Brewer is a restricted free agent too? Wow Denver is getting rocked in this.


----------



## Tragedy

*Re: Merged (Again):Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



kbdullah said:


> Wait Brewer is a restricted free agent too? Wow Denver is getting rocked in this.


Not really. Who's going to offer Brewer more than the qualifying offer of 4.9 million? As for Chandler a sign and trade could potentially occur where they can end up with a trade exception if they still have those in the new CBA. 

Ultimately for Denver the prize would be the draft pick. 

Hroz. I don't think NY gives up BOTH fields and Chandler. Maybe bill walker or shawne Williams and Chandler, but i just can't see fields and Chandler going together.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Merged (Again):Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

I've been hearing for awhile the Knicks had trading Randolph for a 1st from Minny in their back pocket (to then trade that 1st in part for Melo). 

You have to take into account the upcoming draft is weak and Randolph still intrigues people...I mean you're talking about the guy that gave Darko money.

This is just a BS scenario though, because for the umpteenth time in this thread I say the Nuggets do not want Chandler. 

The Nuggets do not want Fields. They do not want Gallo. If they wanted any of these people the deal would have been consummated long ago. Fairly simple logic. Carmelo will probably finish the season off in Denver, opt out then sign in New York. 

I don't see what's so hard about this situation for people to comprehend and continue with the hypotheticals. Read the writing on the wall.


----------



## Ron

*Re: Merged (Again):Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Diable said:


> Not seeing how this helps the Wolves...That doesn't seem like a realistic deal if you're Minnesota. This is a weak draft, but they are almost sure to get a top five pick,,,Or is this someone else's pick that that they have? They just passed on Cousins to take Wesley Johnson who pretty much plays the same position as Randolph also


Curry's expiring contract.


----------



## Tragedy

*Re: Merged (Again):Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

I may be mistaken but this is how it all appears. 

Minnesota will be sending out approximately 3.7 million and would be taking back the rest of Curry's expiring contract and Anthony Randolph who has one year. 

I think what they're trying to do is free up minutes for Wesley Johnson and not have to worry about what to do with Corey Brewer come contract time. Cheaper to have Randolph at a mill plus than Brewer for the nearly five million qualifying offer. They may be thinking darko is 23, Love and Beasley are still young and they have Wesley Johnson. So a first round pick this season could be more money coming, and you know under the coming CBA Beasley and Love may still get maxes out to keep them in Minnesota. 

So i see how they can give up a pick for potential future savings and flexibility. If NY could send 3 mil to Minnesota I could see it work even more for them. 

Denver sends out Anthony's 17 million dollar contract and take back around 5.8 million. They'll get 11 million or so in a trade exception. I bet the new CBA still allows trade exceptions or allows a grace period to use them, and they'll get Minnesota's pick which shouldn't fall out of the top three. Maybe it's top one protected, who knows. I'd risk a top one protected for an unprotected 2012 pick. Just can't see jinny getting that much better in one season. 

Trade makes sense for all parties when you consider things outside the players.


----------



## MemphisX

*Re: Merged (Again):Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Lol...Fields, Chandler, Douglass??? Crap, crap, crap...call his bluff. Stop acting like he has the leverage. If people really think he is giving up $60+ million to play in NY, they are looney tunes.


----------



## Tragedy

*Re: Merged (Again):Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



MemphisX said:


> Lol...Fields, Chandler, Douglass??? Crap, crap, crap...call his bluff. Stop acting like he has the leverage. If people really think he is giving up $60+ million to play in NY, they are looney tunes.


Where are you getting this? The most recent speculation is at the top of the page. Look at what dissonance posted. 

No one thinks he can be had for that, but that three team scenario works, and Denver gets somethingnbetter than the NY deal alone. Now if Minny is open trading that first round pick, but like I outlined above with no real superstar coming they may feel they have enough young talent with Beasley, love, darko, Johnson and Flynn. 

Get rid of brewer who they'll have to pay 4.9 million or more for Randolph at just under 2 mil, and get ready to toss max money St love and Beasley. 

I think Minnesota is planning on paying those two ahead of trying to take on another pick. 

They have their starting center, power forward, small forward positions set they can give Johnson more minutes as a 2, Randolph as their sixth man. I see where they can benefit.


----------



## MemphisX

*Re: Merged (Again):Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Wait...are people actually thinking that the TWolves are trading their unprotected 1st for somebody off of NY's bench? :2ti:


----------



## Adam

*Re: Merged (Again):Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

I think I remember hearing during a Wolves game that they didn't pick up Brewer's option for next year.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Merged (Again):Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Nuggets really want the equal value. Nuggets don't want Gallo, Chandle or Fields as a centerpiece. Who is the centerpiece? 

Wolves don't have 2011 first round picks. 

How about adding this,

Wolves send 2013 and 2015 to Nuggets and Knicks send 2014 and 2016 to Nuggets?

I always think about Nuggets first.


----------



## Dissonance

*Re: Merged (Again):Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



MemphisX said:


> Wait...are people actually thinking that the TWolves are trading their unprotected 1st for somebody off of NY's bench? :2ti:


If it happens, no. Obviously, there will protections. That's a given.


----------



## 77AJ

*Re: Merged (Again):Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

This Melo conundrum needs to be over. I've lost interest in Melo after the way he's handled his business this season. I hope where ever he goes the team becomes a bottom feeder, and he never wins a championship.


----------



## Ron

*Re: Merged (Again):Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

There is some noise on L.A. talk radio about Anthony straight up for Bynum but I really think this is pure bull****...Bynum is not the problem with the Lakers, Artest and Gasol have been, but they both showed up last night in NOLA, so maybe that has abated too.

Plus I don't see where 'Melo is saying he would sign an extension for the Lakers, so that is really bull****. These guys here just make **** up. Too much time on their hands.


----------



## Ron

*Re: Merged (Again):Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



23AJ said:


> This Melo conundrum needs to be over. I've lost interest in Melo after the way he's handled his business this season. I hope where ever he goes the team becomes a bottom feeder, and he never wins a championship.


You are pointing blame at the wrong guy...as far as I know, 'Melo has been pretty consistent and has never really said anything other than he wants to play for the Knicks.

If you want to blame someone, blame the ****ing media. They are the ones basically making new **** up every day.

Oh, and it doesn't help when both Denver and New Jersey leaked their crap on a daily basis too.


----------



## Noyze

*Re: Merged (Again):Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



23AJ said:


> This Melo conundrum needs to be over. I've lost interest in Melo after the way he's handled his business this season. I hope where ever he goes the team becomes a bottom feeder, and he never wins a championship.


I don't think it's Melo's fault, this whole situation was handled poorly. Melo wont ever win a championship anyway...unless he's the 2nd of third option on a contending team.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Merged (Again):Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

I think Carmelo, like LeBron and them last year messed up letting these agents run the show because they don't have his best interest at hand. 

As far as Carmelo himself I don't think he could've handled the situation any better. He hasn't said anything headline worthy or anything..the media's going to cover it ad nauseum regardless.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Merged (Again):Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



MemphisX said:


> Lol...if I am Denver, I keep him all season and refuse to sign and trade him this summer.


Yeah, I see zero motivation to deal him.



Dre™ said:


> If he couldn't opt out that might be viable...unless you're saying it's for the extra years Denver can give him..and again I say Melo isn't trippin off that.
> 
> And if Cleveland could end up trading LeBron for a player exception you know they're gonna want something off him if it gets to that point. What point are you trying to prove not bringing anything back to your franchise from a guy who does not want to be there


Problem is that the salaries would have to match and the only way to do that involves Denver paying Eddy Curry's fat ass for a year. Cleveland could get a TPE because Miami's payroll was, essentially, zero. New York's is $43 million.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Merged (Again):Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Diable said:


> Not seeing how this helps the Wolves...That doesn't seem like a realistic deal if you're Minnesota. This is a weak draft, but they are almost sure to get a top five pick,,,Or is this someone else's pick that that they have? They just passed on Cousins to take Wesley Johnson who pretty much plays the same position as Randolph also


They can't even deal their 2011 pick because they owe one to the Clippers, which means that the 'Wolves pick can't be the 2012 one either. So you're right, I can't see why Denver would deal 'Melo for a draft pick that couldn't possibly arrive before 2013, and that's assuming no lottery protection.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Merged (Again):Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Tragedy said:


> I may be mistaken but this is how it all appears.
> 
> Minnesota will be sending out approximately 3.7 million and would be taking back the rest of Curry's expiring contract and Anthony Randolph who has one year.
> 
> I think what they're trying to do is free up minutes for Wesley Johnson and not have to worry about what to do with Corey Brewer come contract time. Cheaper to have Randolph at a mill plus than Brewer for the nearly five million qualifying offer. They may be thinking darko is 23, Love and Beasley are still young and they have Wesley Johnson. So a first round pick this season could be more money coming, and you know under the coming CBA Beasley and Love may still get maxes out to keep them in Minnesota.
> 
> So i see how they can give up a pick for potential future savings and flexibility. If NY could send 3 mil to Minnesota I could see it work even more for them.
> 
> Denver sends out Anthony's 17 million dollar contract and take back around 5.8 million. They'll get 11 million or so in a trade exception. I bet the new CBA still allows trade exceptions or allows a grace period to use them, and they'll get Minnesota's pick which shouldn't fall out of the top three. Maybe it's top one protected, who knows. I'd risk a top one protected for an unprotected 2012 pick. Just can't see jinny getting that much better in one season.
> 
> Trade makes sense for all parties when you consider things outside the players.


Foolish analysis.

Both Nuggets and Wolves will be doomed the next 5 years.


----------



## Madstrike

*Re: Merged (Again):Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

how would this benefit the timberwolves?


----------



## HB

*Re: Merged (Again):Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

The Nuggets would have gotten a better deal with the Nets. Unbelievable!


----------



## Tragedy

*Re: Merged (Again):Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



HB said:


> The Nuggets would have gotten a better deal with the Nets. Unbelievable!


I don't think you're understanding that part though. Everyone knows the Nets have the best deal. But Melo doesn't want to sign, so that kills the trade. This would have occurred prior to the season if Melo signed off on that extension to go to NJ.


----------



## HB

*Re: Merged (Again):Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

O I get that part, and Prokhorov made the right move. No point losing so much for a guy that wont stay.


----------



## Tragedy

*Re: Merged (Again):Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

I agree with that too.

IMO, the Nets should just stay the course and not overpay for talent - some of which they already have.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Merged (Again):Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Nobody wants Eddy Curry. Wolves want Anthony Rangdoph in a very low cost. This is the problem: Knicks think Wolves fall in love with Anthony Rangdoph.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



> NBA - Lakers had preliminary discussions with Nuggets about Carmelo Anthony, sources told Chris Broussard


It's ESPN...


----------



## Gx

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



King Sancho Fantastic said:


> It's ESPN...


and here's an article on it now:
http://sports.espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/news/story?id=6101304

Interesting... although it might just be a ploy so Denver can get more from NY.


----------



## RollWithEm

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

I still don't understand why Melo wouldn't entertain the idea of signing an extension with the Lakers and/or Clippers when both situations appear to be more "win now" than the current Knicks.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

All 3 knicks have zero trade value: Curry, AR and Chandler. Lakers can submit Nuggets a better deal.

Walton/Bynum


----------



## VBM

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Bynum/Odom would be my asking price if I'm Denver (Bynum = insurance should Nene bolt), and it'd be a nice lineup with Billups/Smith/Odom/Nene/Bynum.

As a Spurs fan, it'd be scary to see Melo/Kobe on the same team, but leaving Gasol all alone down low would help eliminate LA's size advantage (plus I doubt he'd see much of the ball anyway).


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

If I were Denver? I'd say screw Odom. I'd be looking to flip Nene if Anthony goes, yeah, they'll be shorthanded during Bynum's annual injury run (until they deal him), but there are going to be teams looking for a 5 out there willing to trade for Nene.


----------



## RollWithEm

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



VBM said:


> Bynum/Odom would be my asking price if I'm Denver (Bynum = insurance should Nene bolt), and it'd be a nice lineup with Billups/Smith/Odom/Nene/Bynum.
> 
> As a Spurs fan, it'd be scary to see Melo/Kobe on the same team, but leaving Gasol all alone down low would help eliminate LA's size advantage (plus I doubt he'd see much of the ball anyway).


If the Lakers do that, they're essentially an older version of the Heat. Big 3 at SG, SF, PF, pupu platter at C, and a bunch of role players... none of which is even as good as Mike Miller. They would be giving up the length that makes them a dominant team in the first place.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Lakers or Knicks need to make the deal thru the third team.

Love and Wolves unprotected first rounder ......


----------



## VBM

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



> FisolaNYDN Frank Isola
> by EricPincus
> Sources say that Jim Buss recently rejected a Bynum for Carmelo deal, much to the dismay of Kobe and Phil
> 14 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply


...


----------



## DaRizzle

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Bynum was Jim's first chance at picking a player....I hope he doesnt get emotion involved


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Who will be the center piece for Melo?

Nuggets don't want Derrick Favors as a center piece.


----------



## HB

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Lol why would the Nuggets even deal for an injury prone Bynum? If I were the Clippers, I'd package Kaman and anyone not named Griffin/Gordon/Jordan and go after Melo.


----------



## Spaceman Spiff

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

At first I'm like WTF Kwame for Gasol pt2, but then this would negate some of that size advantage they had. That is their biggest advantage. You can guard Kobe and Melo 1 vs 1 and let them take other teammates out of the game(see what Rockets did last night and what they routinely do with Kobe).


----------



## Spaceman Spiff

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



HB said:


> Lol why would the Nuggets even deal for an injury prone Bynum? If I were the Clippers, I'd package Kaman and anyone not named Griffin/Gordon/Jordan and go after Melo.


I would much rather Melo go to the Clippers. Nuggets won't want Baron anyway. Baron/Gordon/Melo/Grffin/Jordan is a serious lineup, and they're a much deeper team than most would think.


----------



## Hyperion

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Nuggets don't want to get older through this trade. They want to be able to rebuild and quickly. Getting top draft picks from a team that won't benefit from having Melo is the best option after keeping Melo


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

The Clippers do have a Minnesota #1 (which must be conveyed by 2012) in their pocket. So they have more to offer than the Knicks do.


----------



## ChosenFEW

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

hmmmm. how long did it take the heat players to adjust to playing together?.. and supposedly they're not selfish...


now imagine kobe and melo having to share the ball..... two of the most me first players in the NBA... this definitely isn't going to do them any good this season if a trade falls through for the lakers.... in the future though this is could be a good move.


just not right now when you're trying to threepeat


----------



## Ron

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Jim Buss will never part with Andrew Bynum...now there is noise that Denver wants to bypass Jim and go straight to the money-man, Jerry Buss.

If that happens, and Phil and Kobe want that, then Bynum will be wearing Denver powder-blue very soon, and the Knicks will have ****ed it up again.

Nothing new there.

My preference, of course, is we keep our length and defense. We already have enough ball hogs on this team. No room for one more.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Lakers have clearly defeat Knicks offer.

Chandler - zero trade value (want 60 mil contract)

AR- zero value

Eddy Curry - zero value


----------



## RollWithEm

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



RollWithEm said:


> Who says no to this deal (the basics of which were outlined in this article)?
> 
> *Denver trades:*
> 
> SF Carmelo Anthony
> PF Al Harrington (bad 5-year contract that they’re looking to dump)
> 
> *LA Clippers trade:*
> 
> SF Al-Farouq Aminu
> C Chris Kaman
> SG Rasual Butler (expiring)
> PF Brian Cook (expiring)
> PF Craig Smith (expiring)
> Rights to Minnesota’s 2012 first round pick (unprotected)
> 
> This would be much more solid than the Nets' offer. How does this not help both teams?


I still stick by this post I made way back when in this thread. How is this not the best possible offer for both the Nuggets and for Carmelo's chances of leading a team to a championship anytime soon?

Denver would be left with a core of Aminu, Nene, and Lawson for the future. They would also be saving almost $1.5 mil the rest of this year and an additional $7 mil next year while eliminating Al's horrible contract. If they can manage to dump Billups on another team as well, they could conceivably have room for a max free agent next year as well as having a tippy top draft pick the following year (from the Wolves).

The Clippers would immediately become a contender with this squad:

PG Baron/Bledsoe/Warren
SG Gordon/Foye
SF Melo/Gomes
PF Griffin/Harrington
C Jordan/Diogu

They would need to pick up a min level free agent to fill out the roster, but how is that team not right in the mix out west next season (assuming there is a next season)?


----------



## Ron

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Ballscientist said:


> Lakers or Knicks need to make the deal thru the third team.
> 
> Love and Wolves unprotected first rounder ......


You are wrong BS. Deal works financially. It is rumored that Denver would throw in at least one other player for salary-dump purposes.

I agree with Jim Buss. Kill this deal...don't need additional shooting. Need additional defense.


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

They are just trying to get the Knicks to offer more. Carmelo being so upfront about wanting to sign in NY has made it a one team bargaining table where the Knicks have all the leverage. Note that sources are still saying the NY-MIN-DEN deal is still alive. Denver would still rather deal w/ the Knicks. 

Also, I don't see the point of being upset about Chandler wanting a big deal if Bynum is already getting paid.


----------



## Spaceman Spiff

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



RollWithEm said:


> I still stick by this post I made way back when in this thread. How is this not the best possible offer for both the Nuggets and for Carmelo's chances of leading a team to a championship anytime soon?
> 
> Denver would be left with a core of Aminu, Nene, and Lawson for the future. They would also be saving almost $1.5 mil the rest of this year and an additional $7 mil next year while eliminating Al's horrible contract. If they can manage to dump Billups on another team as well, they could conceivably have room for a max free agent next year as well as having a tippy top draft pick the following year (from the Wolves).
> 
> The Clippers would immediately become a contender with this squad:
> 
> PG Baron/Bledsoe/Warren
> SG Gordon/Foye
> SF Melo/Gomes
> PF Griffin/Harrington
> C Jordan/Diogu
> 
> They would need to pick up a min level free agent to fill out the roster, but how is that team not right in the mix out west next season (assuming there is a next season)?


I think Denver will part with Nene also(more than likely to the Rockets). But that Clippers team is definitely a contender, and would make a strong push for a 7th or 8th seed this season. And there's no way Spurs, Lakers, or Mavs want to see that in the 1st round.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



kbdullah said:


> They are just trying to get the Knicks to offer more. Carmelo being so upfront about wanting to sign in NY has made it a one team bargaining table where the Knicks have all the leverage. Note that sources are still saying the NY-MIN-DEN deal is still alive. Denver would still rather deal w/ the Knicks.
> 
> Also, I don't see the point of being upset about Chandler wanting a big deal if Bynum is already getting paid.


Wilson is a 6'8" roleplaying 3 looking to get paid. Bynum, at the least, is the Al Jefferson of centers.


----------



## Ron

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



kbdullah said:


> They are just trying to get the Knicks to offer more. Carmelo being so upfront about wanting to sign in NY has made it a one team bargaining table where the Knicks have all the leverage. Note that sources are still saying the NY-MIN-DEN deal is still alive. Denver would still rather deal w/ the Knicks.
> 
> Also, I don't see the point of being upset about Chandler wanting a big deal if Bynum is already getting paid.


You do understand that it was Denver that offered Los Angeles the deal?

If Los Angeles accepts, the deal is done. You do understand that, right?

I am not sure why people say "they are just trying to get the Knicks to offer more." I mean really now...3 out 4 of the power brokers on the Lakers wants the deal done, and its being held up by the one who refused the deal...

...and if Denver wants to deal with Jerry Buss directly, the deal may very well get done...TODAY. We'll see if there is real riff between Jerry and Jimmy.


----------



## 29380

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



> WojYahooNBA CAA lost its leverage to muscle NY into trade and $65M extension when NJ pulled out for Melo. Now, it wants NY to think LA's in chase.





> WojYahooNBA NY will work trade on its terms but knows it can get Melo in free agency. Anyway, Jim Buss has made it clear within org: Bynum is staying.


http://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA


> alanhahn Source tells Newsday Bynum-Carmelo scenario was discussed in the summer, DEN has recently tried to re-engage. Story to follow shortly.


http://twitter.com/alanhahn


----------



## Dre

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

It's a hell of a smokescreen if it's better than any actual deal on the table. If I'm the Lakers I do this ASAP, **** all the footsie and hypotheticals, if you want Bynum, take him now. The Lakers aren't for the games.


----------



## Spaceman Spiff

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Ron said:


> You do understand that it was Denver that offered Los Angeles the deal?
> 
> If Los Angeles accepts, the deal is done. You do understand that, right?
> 
> I am not sure why people say "they are just trying to get the Knicks to offer more." I mean really now...3 out 4 of the power brokers on the Lakers wants the deal done, and its being held up by the one who refused the deal...
> 
> ...and if Denver wants to deal with Jerry Buss directly, the deal may very well get done...TODAY. We'll see if there is real riff between Jerry and Jimmy.


It would make more sense for Denver to let something like that leak in order to pressure NY to sweeten things up.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

So how come when the report is in the Lakers interest the "sources" are suddenly credible Ron


----------



## Ron

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Knicks4life said:


> http://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA


Maybe contract law is lost on some of you guys.

If an offer is made and accepted, then that is DONE DEAL. It's the LAW.

Jesus H. Christ.


----------



## Ron

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Dre™ said:


> So how come when the report is in the Lakers interest the "sources" are suddenly credible Ron


I heard this last week, Dre. :|


----------



## Ron

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Spaceman Spiff said:


> It would make more sense for Denver to let something like that leak in order to pressure NY to sweeten things up.


Okay, I get it...leak it after the refusal. Makes sense.


----------



## VBM

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Ron said:


> Maybe contract law is lost on some of you guys.
> 
> If an offer is made and accepted, then that is DONE DEAL. It's the LAW.
> 
> Jesus H. Christ.


Mailbox Rule apply? Oh how I miss my law school contract class. [/sarcasm]


----------



## Ron

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



VBM said:


> Mailbox Rule apply? Oh how I miss my law school contract class. [/sarcasm]


You must be older than me.

Maybe fax machine rule? :laugh:


----------



## Dre

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

I'm trying to figure out why people swear Denver is doing this because they want New York to sweeten the pot up when he's better than anything the Knicks could offer in the first place? Does that make sense to you?

And don't tell me how solid Gallo and Chandler and all the other glorified roleplayers are. Bynum has injury history but he's still young, and a potential post anchor. Beats taking this, that and the third from the Knicks.

I've been saying all along the Knicks were the team, but the Lakers are the type of team to where if they want you you kind of have to consider them. This will get extinguished or accomplished within 24-48 hours either way.


----------



## MemphisX

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

LOL...not sure if this deal is good or bad for either team. If I am the Nuggets, Bynum is a damn site better than any player offered so far including the package by New Jersey but can you trust his wheels. 

For the Lakers, it introduces a highly talented vet to their core who has an intense hunger for a ring. Would probably re-energize that team and make them an offense/matchup nightmare in the league. In fact it would cancel out the slew of bigs the Cs gathered to battle them because a lot of them would be unplayable at the pace the Lakers would play.

Heck, history has shown that it is unlikely that Bynum is healthy throughout the playoffs anyway. To bad daddy's little boy wants to keep his toy.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Daddy's little boy is sounding like an idiot right now


----------



## 29380

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Dre™;6483451 said:


> I'm trying to figure out why people swear Denver is doing this because they want New York to sweeten the pot up when he's better than anything the Knicks could offer in the first place? Does that make sense to you?


Because most people believe that the Lakers(Jim Buss) are not willing to deal Bynum.


----------



## leidout

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



RollWithEm said:


> I still stick by this post I made way back when in this thread. How is this not the best possible offer for both the Nuggets and for Carmelo's chances of leading a team to a championship anytime soon?
> 
> Denver would be left with a core of Aminu, Nene, and Lawson for the future. They would also be saving almost $1.5 mil the rest of this year and an additional $7 mil next year while eliminating Al's horrible contract. If they can manage to dump Billups on another team as well, they could conceivably have room for a max free agent next year as well as having a tippy top draft pick the following year (from the Wolves).
> 
> The Clippers would immediately become a contender with this squad:
> 
> PG Baron/Bledsoe/Warren
> SG Gordon/Foye
> SF Melo/Gomes
> PF Griffin/Harrington
> C Jordan/Diogu
> 
> They would need to pick up a min level free agent to fill out the roster, but how is that team not right in the mix out west next season (assuming there is a next season)?


If Carmelo is willing to sign an extension, then sure, but if he's not willing to stay in LA, then it's not worth talking about at all. Half a year of Melo for Minnesota's pick & a commodity like Kaman is too much.

The Clips would be better off offering their own pick, Minnesota's is looking like it could be a #1 pick. Not that he's not worth it, but the Clippers would still easily best anyone else's offer at the moment.


----------



## leidout

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Knicks4life said:


> Because most people believe that the Lakers(Jim Buss) are not willing to deal Bynum.


It's just mind boggling to me how attached Buss is to Bynum, the guy is an above average basketball player who gets hurt a lot, nothing more.

Sliding Gasol over to center doesn't get you killed inside either, he's a capable center especially if the team starts speeding up the offense with Melo.


----------



## VBM

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



leidout said:


> It's just mind boggling to me how attached Buss is to Bynum, the guy is an above average basketball player who gets hurt a lot, nothing more.


This also makes me wonder why Denver would go after Bynum straight up (I know they'd throw some bad contracts in, but still). They must really be scared of Nene walking for even considering this move.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Trade value analysis assume that Melo is 10.

Knicks
Chandler+Curry = zero trade value
Wolves send Griz protected first round to Nuggets = 1
Wolves are not interested in Curry and are not interested in deal unprotected first round.

Lakers
Bynum, the proven damaged good = 2

Lakers defeat Knicks 2:1


----------



## 29380

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Ballscientist said:


> Wolves are not interested in Curry


I know you are a troll but do you really believe that, at this point Curry is $11 million dollars worth cap relief that you could probably buyout with the cash you get in trade for him.


----------



## Ron

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Knicks4life said:


> I know you are a troll but do you really believe that, at this point Curry is $11 million dollars worth cap relief that you could probably buyout with the cash you get in trade for him.


Maybe you don't understand, because Curry is worth more as an expiring contract to Minny then as a player.


----------



## Adam

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Ron said:


> Maybe you don't understand, because Curry is worth more as an expiring contract to Minny then as a player.


That's what he just said.


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Since when was there an official offer made? What I heard on ESPN was 'preliminary discussions'.


----------



## 29380

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Ron said:


> Maybe you don't understand, because Curry is worth more as an expiring contract to Minny then as a player.


I understand that but unlesss you are a contending for a title or atleast the playoff an expiring contract especially one thats mostly paid for sould intrigue most team.


----------



## ChosenFEW

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Adam said:


> That's what he just said.



say anything to ballscientist and ron will come running in to save the day....


he's like kevin costner to whitney houston in bodyguard


----------



## Tragedy

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

If I'm LA I do it personally. Bynum gives you what, 60 games a year MAX? Sure he's 23, but Melo isn't that much older. 

Kobe at 32
Pau at 30
Melo at 26
Odom at 31
Fisher/Blake

That's a good starting five if you ask me. The only problem would be the shots. But you know how it'd be. It's an older version of Miami, and Melo has at minimum another 6 seasons of great basketball.

I'd take that chance and look to find a backup center elsewhere. It's not every day you can add an offensive player like Melo.


----------



## CosaNostra

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Tragedy said:


> If I'm LA I do it personally. Bynum gives you what, 60 games a year MAX? Sure he's 23, but Melo isn't that much older.
> 
> Kobe at 32
> Pau at 30
> Melo at 26
> Odom at 31
> Fisher/Blake
> 
> That's a good starting five if you ask me. The only problem would be the shots. But you know how it'd be. It's an older version of Miami, and Melo has at minimum another 6 seasons of great basketball.
> 
> I'd take that chance and look to find a backup center elsewhere. It's not every day you can add an offensive player like Melo.


By older version, I think you meant better 

But yeah, you have to do it. The talent is too great for it not to succeed. This reminds me of when people were trying to say the Pau Gasol trade was a bad idea for the Lakers.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



VBM said:


> This also makes me wonder why Denver would go after Bynum straight up (I know they'd throw some bad contracts in, but still). They must really be scared of Nene walking for even considering this move.


Everyone remembers that Nene is a 6'9" power forward playing out of position, right? You could easily play Nene and Bynum together, and if you pair them with a developing Ty Lawson and two good wings that roster could make the playoffs, assuming they stay healthy. I don't love it for Denver, but if they could make the Lakers give up a future first and some of their plethora of seconds while also eating Al Harrington's contract it'd probably be better than anything New York could come up with.


----------



## RollWithEm

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Bogg said:


> if they could make the Lakers give up a future first and some of their plethora of seconds while also eating Al Harrington's contract it'd probably be better than anything New York could come up with.


Undoubtedly, but not quite as good as what you could get from the Clippers, IMO. 

What I haven't heard, though, is any sort of confirmation that Melo would play in LA (with either team) past this season.


----------



## Wade County

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

This would be interesting, although if Pau thought he didnt get a ton of touches inside with just Kobe - can't see how a fellow ball stopper in Melo would help.

Still, talent would find a way. 

a Blake/Kobe/Melo/Odom/Gasol lineup is pretty nuts.


----------



## GrandKenyon6

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

I could actually see Nene and Bynum playing pretty well together.


----------



## Vuchato

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Getting Melo for Bynum would be great value-wise for LA, but losing Bynum and replacing Artest with Melo would hurt the defense. Also have to wonder how much Melo would really help them with Kobe and Gasol already around, do they really need another guy that will take a bunch of shots?


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Lakers should include nene/Brooks in the package;

Bynum/Walton/Artest/Blake for Melo/nene/Brooks thru fourth team.

Gasol/nene >>>> Bosh/big Z

Brooks >>>> Aroyo

Odom and Brooks as 6th and 7th man.


----------



## Madstrike

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

the Lakers need a great PG not another ballhog superstar.


----------



## HB

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

But exactly how does Melo help the Lakers though? Especially when Bynum is gone. As for the Nuggets, so they'd rather have Bynum than Favors, really? Bynum will spend more time on the bench, guess they haven't learned their lesson with the injury prone front court they have right now.


----------



## 77AJ

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

IMO this would be a huge upgrade for the Lakers.


----------



## MemphisX

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

There is not a team in the league that has enough defensive versatility to deal with the Lakers with Melo. Too many players that can take you inside and out. Plus it likely extends Kobe's level of play another 2-3 seasons along with the Lakers title window as Kobe can become a pseudo PG.


----------



## Tragedy

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



HB said:


> But exactly how does Melo help the Lakers though? Especially when Bynum is gone. As for the Nuggets, so they'd rather have Bynum than Favors, really? Bynum will spend more time on the bench, guess they haven't learned their lesson with the injury prone front court they have right now.


If LA did this trade they probably wouldn't even be concerned with extending Melo right away.

They're contending for a championship now, or with Melo. I'm sure winning a ring and taking the reins of the franchise from Kobe and playing with no 24 and Gasol for the next 4-6 seasons while contending would be enough to make anyone sign an extension.

It's not the same as NJ by any means.

Melo not signing the extension scared NJ off, not Denver. LA wouldn't be scared off. 

LAL is THE team in that city. NJ is second fiddle to NY.


----------



## HB

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Anymore dynamic than the team in Miami?



> If LA did this trade they probably wouldn't even be concerned with extending Melo right away.
> 
> They're contending for a championship now, or with Melo. I'm sure winning a ring and taking the reins of the franchise from Kobe and playing with no 24 and Gasol for the next 4-6 seasons while contending would be enough to make anyone sign an extension.
> 
> It's not the same as NJ by any means.
> 
> Melo not signing the extension scared NJ off, not Denver. LA wouldn't be scared off.
> 
> LAL is THE team in that city. NJ is second fiddle to NY.


Cept we are talking about Denver this time around. What are they getting out of this?


----------



## Tragedy

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



HB said:


> Anymore dynamic than the team in Miami?
> 
> 
> 
> Cept we are talking about Denver this time around. What are they getting out of this?


They have Bynum on the hook for the 2011/2012 season at 15 mil with a team option for the following season.

Could move him next season. After the 2012 season they'll have very little tied up in player contracts. So I suppose it's two fold for Denver.

If they get him they get a young guy they'd hope would be able to actually play - for their benefit in a trade or otherwise. And to trade him now would mean no headache of trying to get the knicks deal.

That's all I can think of Denver getting out of it. less headache, potential trade piece next season.


----------



## CosaNostra

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



RollWithEm said:


> Undoubtedly, but not quite as good as what you could get from the Clippers, IMO.
> 
> What I haven't heard, though, is any sort of confirmation that Melo would play in LA (with either team) past this season.


He and his wife recently bought a house in LA.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

After Melo to Lakers is done,

I strongly believe that Heat will not win anything until 2014.

If Heat big 3 are healthy, they have a chance to win assuming there is no more big move.


----------



## Ron

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



ChosenFEW said:


> say anything to ballscientist and ron will come running in to save the day....
> 
> 
> he's like kevin costner to whitney houston in bodyguard


That's because most of your guys are turds to him...I got a feeling he doesn't really give a **** what y'all think of him...he just keeps plugging along with his own brand of sense/nonsense.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

When Donnie Walsh called Nuggets owner's cell, he let the call goes to the voice mail.

What does it mean?


----------



## Dissonance

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Ballscientist said:


> *After Melo to Lakers is done,*
> I strongly believe that Heat will not win anything until 2014.
> 
> If Heat big 3 are healthy, they have a chance to win assuming there is no more big move.



:hano:


----------



## Ron

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



kbdullah said:


> Since when was there an official offer made? What I heard on ESPN was 'preliminary discussions'.


Because it was also reported that Buss "refused" the offer. So I really don't know...consider the source. Right, Dre?


----------



## CosaNostra

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Ballscientist said:


> After Melo to Lakers is done,
> 
> I strongly believe that Heat will not win anything until 2014.
> 
> If Heat big 3 are healthy, they have a chance to win assuming there is no more big move.


Even if it doesn't happen, they'll still have go through LA if they want to win anything! As long as Kobe is around, the Lakers will always be contenders!


----------



## Ron

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Ballscientist said:


> When Donnie Walsh called Nuggets owner's cell, he let the call goes to the voice mail.
> 
> What does it mean?


Maybe he left his cell in the room while he was taking a ****?


----------



## VBM

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*


----------



## 29380

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Ron said:


> Because it was also reported that Buss "refused" the offer. So I really don't know...consider the source. Right, Dre?


All I have heard or read was that Denver asked LA about a Melo trade with Bynum as the centerpiece something they try to do during the summer and both times LA has said no to trading Bynum.


----------



## AirJay

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Assuming the deal ends up being Melo for Bynum straight up (which would be silly by the Nuggets).

How exactly are the Lakers better than the Heat?

PG Fisher Chalmers
SG Kobe Wade
SF Melo Lebron
PF Odom Bosh
C Gasol Anthony

Bench Bench
Blake Miller
Barnes Haslem (assuming he comes back)
Artest Ilgauskas
Walton Jones
Brown House
Powell Dampier
Ratliff

The Lakers cannot exploit either of the Heat's two biggest weaknesses, PG play and lack of a quality big men. Wade at this point is at worst a push with Kobe, as is Chalmers and FIsher. Lebron is a better player than Melo (and Melo cannot guard him). The Heat can slide Bosh onto Odom and stick the Warden on Gasol. And the Heat bench is deeper as the Lakers lose their best weapon to the starting lineup (Odom). 

The Lakers would be much better served keeping Bynum. He and Gasol are a matchup nightmare for any team in the league, no matter how enticing a Melo/Kobe pairing is. If you think Wade and Lebron had problems meshing wait till you pair a pure scorer with Kobe (and Gasol will see his touches drop). The Lakers are the still the favorite out West with their current group.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

It means Dolan and he have been talking Owner to Owner for a couple days now


----------



## Ron

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Dre™ said:


> It means Dolan and he have been talking Owner to Owner for a couple days now


It's closer to a couple of weeks. We have been hearing these rumors in Los Angeles for at least that amount of time.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

People are saying the Lakers want to try to pull Billups too. I think that's very wishful thinking.

The Nuggets also want a third team to get some picks from too


----------



## Dre

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Ron said:


> It's closer to a couple of weeks. We have been hearing these rumors in Los Angeles for at least that amount of time.


I'm talking about Kroenke and Dolan


----------



## AirJay

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Dre™ said:


> People are saying the Lakers want to try to pull Billups too. I think that's very wishful thinking.
> 
> The Nuggets also want a third team to get some picks from too


See if they got Billups that would be a steal on the lines of getting Gasol for Kwame. If they could toss out this lineup in crunchtime:

Billups
Kobe
Melo
Odom
Gasol

They would virtually unguardable. That is almost like an All-star team.

On the other hand, with their current PG situation, there is absolutely nothing that would prevent a team like Miami to toss out this five at the end of games:

House
Wade
Miller
James
Bosh

Although I guess if Phil insists on not playing Bynum to close games he might as well sub in Melo for Artest...


----------



## CosaNostra

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



AirJay said:


> Wade at this point is at worst a push with Kobe


Lol.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Then again Billups has little value with Melo gone. Big contract, older player who everyone knows doesnt want to be in Denver to win 30 games...salary wise it would be hard to make it work without a third team.

But what does that third team get for facilitating?


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

My source says Jerry Buss don't want to deal Bynum for Melo straight up, but Buss agrees to trade Bynum to Nuggets in a big trade, more players involved.

they are talking to third team now.


----------



## AirJay

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



CosaNostra said:


> Lol.


It's true. You cannot by any means say Kobe Bryant is a better player than Dwyane Wade at this point in their respective careers. Look at the numbers. Or forget the numbers and watch the games.


----------



## Tragedy

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

So Denver goes from trading Melo to NY, to basically reloading LA for another three seasons after this one? 

lol


----------



## Tragedy

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

And no one is overrating the knicks talent.

No one is pretending the knicks offer is better than LA's or NJ's.

What's going on is people are UNDERRATING Melo's influence in this process. The reason why Knicks fans are trotting out these trades is because it's OBVIOUS that Carmelo's destination of choice and his reluctance is what has everyone speculating. It's not like that the Knicks are trying to go after a player who's on the trading block with scraps, but someone who's pushing everything a certain way.

So we can talk about this Lakers trade until we turn blue in the face, and ballscientist can talk crap about the knicks assets as much as he wants, but the simple fact remains. Carmelo Anthony is trying to become a Knick, and the Knicks are trying to accommodate him.

It sure is funny seeing posters down the Knicks and their fans, but then "joke" about trading players like Kendrick Perkins for Dwight Howard, or saying Luol Deng is going to help the Nuggets somehow.

I seriously don't think Denver wants to call Melo's bluff and wait it out. Sounds easy when your job is not the one on the line. If they screw this up and Anthony walks with nothing at all in return, not even a player who can contribute something and the Nuggets suck hard - you can lose your job. What if they never recover from that?

In hindsight, imagine if Danny Ferry could trade Lebron for someone. And that was someone who didn't give much indication of leaving.


----------



## CosaNostra

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Tragedy said:


> What's going on is people are UNDERRATING Melo's influence in this process. The reason why Knicks fans are trotting out these trades is because it's OBVIOUS that Carmelo's destination of choice and his reluctance is what has everyone speculating. It's not like that the Knicks are trying to go after a player who's on the trading block with scraps, but someone who's pushing everything a certain way.


I think the Lakers present a real threat though... everything the Knicks have to offer that Melo wants, the Lakers have just as much or more. They play in just as big of a media market as the Knicks. They have more tradition and prestige than the Knicks. They have another major star to pair with him (actually, two). They've also proven they can win year in and year out over multiple eras with multiple pieces. Something the Knicks haven't really done.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Carmelo wants to be a Knick but it's one of those "barring the Lakers have interest" situations. Up until this point recently it wasn't viewed as realistic. Amare is having a good season, but you really think all things being equal he'd pass on the Lakers if the situation got close to just needing his final approval?


----------



## Tragedy

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

I agree with both of you guys. No one in their right mind would pass up the opportunity to join such a prestigious franchise and play alongside guys like Kobe and Gasol.

I think this one is on the Lakers though. If they give up Bynum (more pieces would be needed actually to make the trade work), I can totally see Melo signing off on it. And I wouldn't blame the man one bit.

I just wanted to give some perspective on the Knicks side. It'd be insulting for Melo to want to go to NY and the Knicks just stand there and shrug. They have to offer something using what they have

And no knicks fan is saying the Knicks have the best deal - they're just saying get it done and try to get a reasonable deal to Denver.

So Ballscientist can take his own analysis elsewhere.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

My source says Melo loves to play for Lakers. Knicks fans need to understand this first.
Knicks offers are still garbage-like offers. It is foolish trade proposal. The world is not just value of Eddy Curry.
It really amazes me that some of the posters here are adults.


----------



## Tragedy

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Ballscientist said:


> Knicks offers are still garbage offer.
> 
> My source says Melo love to play for Lakers.
> 
> It really amazes me that some of the posters here are adults.


Your source, eh?

Otherwise known as your own head?

Fact is - the knicks offer DOES NOT MATTER.

This is not a player out on the open market. Carmelo has pushed for the Knicks - quietly - by not signing his extension. That has scared all other teams off, except for teams willing to take him on without an extension.

Would he love to play for LA? Possibly, most likely - but it was Denver that contacted LA, and LA said no.

Not to mention Bynum for Melo doesn't work. You have to include someone else and the Lakers cannot do that. 

What amazes me is the rubbish you post.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Bynum for Melo straight up actually does work - they just need to come within 25% of the salary traded which Bynum's does:

http://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/5840116

Denver wants to shed more salary (probably like Al Harrington who has a vets mid deal even longer than Artest's) - also Denver does not want Artest 

http://www.silverscreenandroll.com/

Walton & Bynum for Melo and Harrington works and shortens and reduces Denver's debt load

http://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/5840124

personally Im not wild about the trade (and forget about it if it has to involve Odom) - the Lakers arent having trouble scoring, they're having trouble with intensity and defense (how does Melo help with that?) - and I guess I could see the point about a future replacement for Kobe if the Lakers werent two time champs (f- the future, now is now - does this give them a better chance to win now?)


----------



## Tragedy

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

I know Harrington's contract sucks, but at least you can play Harrington. Luke Walton just sucks.

lol.

I'm happy either way though. I like the Lakers and I like the Knicks. Either team doing well is fine by me.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Tragedy said:


> It sure is funny seeing posters down the Knicks and their fans, but then "joke" about trading players like Kendrick Perkins for Dwight Howard, or saying Luol Deng is going to help the Nuggets somehow.


One, I haven't "downed" the Knicks or their fans. All I've said is that I see no advantage for Denver to give Anthony away on the terms that the Knicks are apparently looking for. When you suck taking back RFA roleplayers looking for a payday is the quickest and easiest way into cap hell (and believe me, as a Celtics fan I witnessed a decade of cap hell, just as Knicks fans did, so I saw first hand just how badly that ruins a fanbase). And I'm guessing that you missed Doc Rivers joke about maximising Superman's time on the floor with the Celtics (during the all star game) in order to recruit him (which is what I was riffing off).



Tragedy said:


> In hindsight, imagine if Danny Ferry could trade Lebron for someone. And that was someone who didn't give much indication of leaving.


Cleveland would still suck and Danny Ferry would still have been fired for the biblical disaster that he built there. A second roleplayer to complement JJ Hickson wouldn't have saved his job.


----------



## Tragedy

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

I'm just teasing you EH.


----------



## Ron

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



AirJay said:


> It's true. You cannot by any means say Kobe Bryant is a better player than Dwyane Wade at this point in their respective careers. Look at the numbers. Or forget the numbers and watch the games.


Ah, the obligatory Kobe-somebody post which has absolutely nothing to do with the thread.

You people never cease to amaze me.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Ron said:


> Ah, the obligatory Kobe-somebody post which has absolutely nothing to do with the thread.
> 
> You people never cease to amaze me.


That's not quite how it happened.


----------



## AirJay

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Ron said:


> Ah, the obligatory Kobe-somebody post which has absolutely nothing to do with the thread.
> 
> You people never cease to amaze me.


? 

I broke down a potential Heat-Lakers series. I said Wade and Kobe could be treated as a push. Another poster mocked that statement. I backed up my assertion.

I am no Kobe fan but stop being so paranoid.


----------



## Ron

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



AirJay said:


> ?
> 
> I broke down a potential Heat-Lakers series. I said Wade and Kobe could be treated as a push. Another poster mocked that statement. I backed up my assertion.
> 
> I am no Kobe fan but stop being so paranoid.


Not paranoid, just observing that Kobe has been mentioned on this board negatively about 140 million times.

And whether you backed up your assertion is really a matter of pure speculation.

Let's just stick with 'Melo, ok? If you want, you are welcome to start the 17 millionth "Kobe Sucks" thread on this board. Knock yourself out.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Ron said:


> Not paranoid, just observing that Kobe has been mentioned on this board negatively about 140 million times.
> 
> And whether you backed up your assertion is really a matter of pure speculation.
> 
> Let's just stick with 'Melo, ok? If you want, you are welcome to start the 17 millionth "Kobe Sucks" thread on this board. Knock yourself out.


To be fair, Kobe and Wade are almost certainly 1-2 in the league at their respective positions, and the order isn't clear-cut either. Stating that the two best shooting guards in the league could potentially play each other to a standstill over the course of a playoff series isn't exactly mentioning one or the other in a negative light, and is in fact entirely plausible(and IMO probable).


----------



## Ron

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Bogg said:


> To be fair, Kobe and Wade are almost certainly 1-2 in the league at their respective positions, and the order isn't clear-cut either. Stating that the two best shooting guards in the league could potentially play each other to a standstill over the course of a playoff series isn't exactly mentioning one or the other in a negative light, and is in fact entirely plausible(and IMO probable).


Watching Kobe jack up contested long jumpers late in games and miss them badly gives me real pause, believe me. Talent level is still there but his selfishness and ego have to take a backseat if the Lakers have a chance of repeating.

And no, Laker fans, don't give me that **** that he has to take the shot because no one else on the team will. That's a total cop-out, and the reason why his teammates are hesitant is because they don't want to alienate the Kobester. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Kobe side-street exited, back to the 'Melo highway.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

I just have a hard time believing that if someone wanted the ball they wouldn't have asked for it *once* those final 10 minutes in LA vs. Boston. 

I think if anything the Lakers need to be thinking about someone to supplant Kobe this offseason, because it's not long before he won't be able to do whatever he pleases and still lead a 56+ win team.


----------



## Tragedy

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Dre. Too many times you have people who say Kobe is preventing Gasol from getting it going - and sometimes he should push the ball to Gasol, but then you'll see Gasol out there while Kobe's on the bench and he STILL won't get the ball!

Used to happen a lot when they had Jordan Farmar.


----------



## Pioneer10

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

How can you not take this if you are Denver and this is real? Bynum is worth by himself then the entirety of what the Knicks could possibly offer.

Would I do this if I was the Lakers: I don't know. The one advantage against every team they've faced over the last two years is that ridiculous length with Bynum and Gasol together. There were time other teams seemed like the midget squad against even in the playoffs. There defense will also take a hit as well and one less big man to protect the paint against those penetrating PG's that they have a lot of trouble with.

That being said they will be an offensive powerhouse


----------



## e-monk

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

at dre's "Too many times you have people who say Kobe is preventing Gasol from getting it going" comment:

a) it happened against San Antonio late several times (and he was fighting for position)
b) but it wasnt Kobe - it was everyone, Fisher did it twice (Fisher sucks at most PG related duties btw - 50/50 chance he turns over on a 2-on-none break) - they play like idiots sometimes - comes from not having an in-game coach (I know, I know but people you havent had to watch the joke that is a laker 'play' out of time-out for the last 15 years (most of them end in shot clock violations) - he doesnt adjust and he doesnt spend too much time telling them what to do during a game - that's not his thing but maybe it's his gift)


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

example for the Knicks to get Melo - this is not an idea.

Both Knicks and Nuggets will be exciting.

Nuggets get Aldridge from Blazers and unprotected first rounder from Wolves;

Knicks get Melo and Nuggets' unprotected first rounder;

Knicks fans: You do the rest.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Tragedy said:


> Dre. Too many times you have people who say Kobe is preventing Gasol from getting it going - and sometimes he should push the ball to Gasol, but then you'll see Gasol out there while Kobe's on the bench and he STILL won't get the ball!
> 
> Used to happen a lot when they had Jordan Farmar.


I've read Hoopshype like everyday for the past 4-5 years of my life, believe me I've read about it. At some point it has to be about Pau no?


----------



## Bogg

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Pioneer10 said:


> How can you not take this if you are Denver and this is real? Bynum is worth by himself then the entirety of what the Knicks could possibly offer.


Only if you think Bynum's going to stay healthy all of the sudden, if he keeps playing 55 games a year on limited minutes he does nothing for a rebuilding team but tie up cap space and prevent them from establishing any sort of consistent identity. In all honesty, if I were the Nuggets, I would seriously consider spinning Bynum off to a third team for a player or two and draft picks.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Bogg said:


> Only if you think Bynum's going to stay healthy all of the sudden, if he keeps playing 55 games a year on limited minutes he does nothing for a rebuilding team but tie up cap space and prevent them from establishing any sort of consistent identity. In all honesty, if I were the Nuggets, I would seriously consider spinning Bynum off to a third team for a player or two and draft picks.



I don't know that any non top 3 pick in this draft is any less worth than Bynum's risk.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Like Cleveland, he can be their savior!!!!


----------



## Hyperion

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Ballscientist said:


> example for the Knicks to get Melo - this is not an idea.
> 
> Both Knicks and Nuggets will be exciting.
> 
> Nuggets get Aldridge from Blazers and unprotected first rounder from Wolves;
> 
> Knicks get Melo and Nuggets' unprotected first rounder;
> 
> Knicks fans: You do the rest.


The rules are that division rivals won't give a quality player to each other. They will help get rid of a player.


----------



## VBM

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

So assuming this deal goes down, does LeBron get a pass legacy-wise for teaming with Wade and Bosh if Kobe is one of (if not the main) proponents of getting Melo to LA? And if the trade does go down and LA wins a title, does it tarnish Kobe's 6th ring in the ever-present Jordan comparison?

Surely Laker fan will say winning a ring is all that matters (and I agree). But for the Kobe fans out there (not restricted to Laker fans...there's a lot out there), do you want this deal to happen?


----------



## Hibachi!

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



VBM said:


> So assuming this deal goes down, does LeBron get a pass legacy-wise for teaming with Wade and Bosh if Kobe is one of (if not the main) proponents of getting Melo to LA? And if the trade does go down and LA wins a title, does it tarnish Kobe's 6th ring in the ever-present Jordan comparison?



Naw ... It only matters if you LEAVE. Why don't you understand that what makes you a better basketball player isn't the players you play with, it's if you stay with your team and they come to you! :krazy:

*** Stop with the name calling already. ***


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Round 16: Melo for Bynum

Round 17: Melo for Pau Gasol

How about this,

Melo/nene for Gasol/Odom?


----------



## Ron

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



VBM said:


> So assuming this deal goes down, does LeBron get a pass legacy-wise for teaming with Wade and Bosh if Kobe is one of (if not the main) proponents of getting Melo to LA? And if the trade does go down and LA wins a title, does it tarnish Kobe's 6th ring in the ever-present Jordan comparison?
> 
> Surely Laker fan will say winning a ring is all that matters (and I agree). But for the Kobe fans out there (not restricted to Laker fans...there's a lot out there), do you want this deal to happen?


Don't care about any legacy, just care about rings...and the bottom line is Lakers have a much greater chance of getting a ring if they hold on to Bynum, so I don't make this deal if I am the Lakers.

Let him go to the Knicks and let's see how interesting the East can get.


----------



## Ron

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

*Sorry to spoil the party — Lakers have no plans to trade for ‘Melo*



> The Lakers do not intend to trade Bynum, at 23 their one youthful building block for the future and still coveted by Lakers vice president Jim Buss despite chronic knee problems. The organization’s basketball decisions are increasingly being made by Buss on behalf of his father, Lakers owner Jerry Buss.
> 
> The Lakers have had previous Anthony-related discussions, but not only are the Lakers resistant to trading Bynum, they have no intention of adding a salary such as Anthony’s. He would average more than $20 million per season in his extension if acquired and signed, and the Lakers already are uneasy that their league-high payroll is bloated now and into the future.


Yup. What I have been saying all along...especially the money part. Jerry Buss is very sensitive to the high payroll issues.



> Also, apparently the Nuggets asked about Pau Gasol for Anthony as well, but the Lakers said no once they caught their breath from laughing so hard.


I guess there is no harm in asking, but how seriously in the future are other GMs going to take you when you want to make other deals? Denver is ****ing this whole 'Melo thing royally.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

McNuggets are trying to include Harrington. They know Knicks are trying to postpone and postpone. Deadline for Knicks are absolutely needed.


----------



## Xeneise

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

BallScientist,

Why do you hate the Knicks so much? Every single post you make about them in negative.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Dre™;6483988 said:


> I don't know that any non top 3 pick in this draft is any less worth than Bynum's risk.


The problem with Bynum, especially when he's only playing 60 games a year for you, is that he's just good enough to get you into that 38-40 win no man's land. That's assuming he's even healthy that much, he's struggled to stay on the court averaging high-twenties mpg, a rebuilding Denver team would be looking for another ten minutes a night out of him. If you're going through a complete tear-down rebuild, you really might be better with picks/rookies and cap space.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Knicks have no chance to get Melo if Knicks really can't find a centerpiece with long term contract from the third team.
Example of centerpiece with long term contracts: Tony Parker and Aldridge.

Help to dump Al Harrington contract to third team is also important.


----------



## HB

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

After this fiasco, trading with the Nuggets should terrify other front offices. They are constantly putting stuff out there.


----------



## Dissonance

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Big surprise there. Bynum-Melo rumor was silly from the start.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Situation:
Wolves owner Glen Taylor did not like the Knicks proposal. It help Wolves to improve nothing, but spending.
Wilson Chandle will need the re-surgery in his same ankle in a few month. If he continues to play, his ankle could be injured soon.

Nuggets have 90% chance to keep Melo until July, then use sign and trade ......


----------



## RollWithEm

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

After reading about how Melo would sign an extension with the Lakers and about what was "wrong" with the Thunder, this not so crazy trade idea just came to mind that could really solidify the future goals of all three teams. OKC would just have to relent slightly on their silly mantra of not taking on any veterans.

*DENVER* receives:
C Andrew Bynum (LAL)
G Shannon Brown (LAL)
F Jeff Green (OKC)
C Nenad Krstic (OKC)
G Morris Peterson (OKC)
2011 First Rd Pick (LAL)
$3 mil cash (LAL)

*OKLAHOMA CITY* receives:
C Nene Hilario (DEN)
F Al Harrington (DEN)
F Ron Artest (LAL)
2011 Second Rd Pick (LAL via NYK)

*LA LAKERS* receive:
F Carmelo Anthony (DEN)
F Chris Anderson (DEN)
G Daequan Cook (OKC)

The *Nuggets* do this trade to get Bynum along with two young, talented wings with upside in Brown and Green. They also get cash and a late first to further soften the blow of losing their franchise cornerstone. If they extend Green and let their big money, unrestricted free agents walk (Krstic, Peterson, Kenyon, JR), they would only have a little over $30 mil in total salary going into next year. That should be pretty far under whatever the salary cap winds up being next season. Essentially, this would be an instant rebuild better than any of the other deals out there. If they manage to sell Billups off for expiring contracts and picks, that situation improves even further. Worst case: they'll still be much better than Cleveland post-Lebron.

The *Thunder* do this trade to solidify a championship-caliber rotation. Look at that line-up:

PG Westbrook
SG Sefolosha
SF Durant
PF Collison
C Nene
------------------
PG Maynor
SG Harden
SF Artest
PF Harrington
C Ibaka
------------------
Ivey, Mullens, White

Down the stretch, they'd have Westbrook, Harden, Durant, Nene, and Ibaka on the floor causing all kinds of problems. They could play stretches with Westbrook, Thabo, Artest, Durant, Ibaka out there that would shut teams down on one end and have a massive speed advantage at the other end. Also, Harrington would represent a better-rebounding version of what Nate Robinson brings Boston. Throw him out there in the first half to see if he gets hot. If so, play him 18-22 minutes. If not, sit him down immediately - no big deal. Plus, they'd be getting a guy (Artest) who is motivated to beat the Lakers. Nobody in the league defends Kobe better than Thabo, no one defends Gasol better than Ibaka, and no one defends Melo better than Artest. They would have essentially assembled a Laker-stopper-unit.

Still, the *Lakers* do this trade to shake up the team without losing their core or their identity. Birdman is a slight upgrade over Bynum defensively even though he is a big downgrade offensively. The upgrade from Artest to Melo will more than offset that difference, though. Cook would also offset the loss of shooting with Brown gone from the bench mob. Also, Bird's contract is the same length as Artest's but almost $2 mil cheaper per year.

I would argue that the Thunder and Lakers would be much better basketball teams poised to meet each other in this year's Western Conference Finals while the Nuggets will be an organization which is much better positioned financially and no longer being held hostage by their best player.


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Yeah Nene wouldn't sign an extension w/ OKC so they wouldn't be willing to give up Jeff Green. Not sure any team wants Artest right now, especially a younger team like OKC.


----------



## RollWithEm

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



kbdullah said:


> Yeah Nene wouldn't sign an extension w/ OKC


Why not?


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Nuggets take out Krstic and Lakers take out Cook because both Nuggets and Lakers want to save.

You can dump them to other team.


----------



## Tragedy

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Ballscientist said:


> Nuggets take out Krstic and Lakers take out Cook because both Nuggets and Lakers want to save.
> 
> You can dump them to other team.


How about Lakers pull out deal and nuggets try to convince Anthony to resign or tell knicks to find a better deal.


----------



## AirJay

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



RollWithEm said:


> Why not?


He wants to play in a warmer, bigger market. He has expressed interest in Miami among other places. Not sure OKC fits the bill.

That deal still does not fix LA's biggest potential problem, which would be playing Gasol at the 5 with no legit backup.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Today, Melo says he will consider signing extension with Nuggets if he is not traded.

Question:

What is the chance that Melo will stay in Denver all season?

So far, there is nothing offer to Denver? All 3 requirements turn out to be nothing.

no centerpiece ( a good player that can lead Nuggets to somewhere)

no salay dump (Al Harrington)

no unprotected first rounder (Wolves rejected)


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Nets problem: Nuggets don't like Derrick Favors as a centerpiece.

Knicks problem: no centerpiece, no unprotected picks, no enough salary to accept Al Harrington


----------



## Ron

*From Denver to New Jersey to Los Angeles to New York back to Denver*

Well, since the Bynum tactic didn't scare any **** out of New York, now 'Melo is saying that $65 million paycheck doesn't look so bad after all, even if its in boring Denver and not exciting New York.

As though this isn't transparent as a window pane.

This whole charade has left the sublime and is now firmly planted in the ridiculous.


----------



## AirJay

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Anyone else feel this process has overrated Carmelo Anthony quite a bit? He can certainly score with anyone, but his teams (usually talented) have flamed out in the playoffs multiple times, he is not a great defender, and he rarely creates points for his teammates.


----------



## HB

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

A dick move, but Melo could play this season out, tell his agent to shut up, do the whole playoffs thing, get extended and then demand a trade next season.


----------



## GrandKenyon6

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

The Nuggets should just keep Melo and see if he is really willing to test the new CBA.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

I don't see why Melo didn't just sign the extension and wait a year to demand the deal anyway. I've said it a million times in here he handled this hastily. He should've done it in the midst of free agency or not at all.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Bogg said:


> The problem with Bynum, especially when he's only playing 60 games a year for you, is that he's just good enough to get you into that 38-40 win no man's land. That's assuming he's even healthy that much, he's struggled to stay on the court averaging high-twenties mpg, a rebuilding Denver team would be looking for another ten minutes a night out of him. If you're going through a complete tear-down rebuild, you really might be better with picks/rookies and cap space.


All valid points, but for one noone's saying Bynum has to be a centerpiece. 

And in general, yes, you might be better with a package, but not the package the Knicks are offering.


----------



## Tragedy

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Dre™ said:


> I don't see why Melo didn't just sign the extension and wait a year to demand the deal anyway. I've said it a million times in here he handled this hastily. He should've done it in the midst of free agency or not at all.


You mean pick up his last year and go into free agency in 2012. He'd be the number two free agent in 2012 at absolute best, and fourth overall. 

Dwight, Deron and Paul will all be more coveted players. And if I were NY I'd go after Dwight or Deron first.


----------



## Madstrike

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Tragedy said:


> You mean pick up his last year and go into free agency in 2012. He'd be the number two free agent in 2012 at absolute best, and fourth overall.
> 
> Dwight, Deron and Paul will all be more coveted players. And if I were NY I'd go after Dwight or Deron first.


Dwight and Amare? that looks like a sweet combo in theory...


----------



## futuristxen

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Melo should have signed the same deal as Lebron/Wade/Bosh did--he'd have been a free agent this past summer and probably already be on the Knicks or Bulls.


----------



## Floods

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



RollWithEm said:


> After reading about how Melo would sign an extension with the Lakers and about what was "wrong" with the Thunder, this not so crazy trade idea just came to mind that could really solidify the future goals of all three teams. OKC would just have to relent slightly on their silly mantra of not taking on any veterans.
> 
> *DENVER* receives:
> C Andrew Bynum (LAL)
> G Shannon Brown (LAL)
> F Jeff Green (OKC)
> C Nenad Krstic (OKC)
> G Morris Peterson (OKC)
> 2011 First Rd Pick (LAL)
> $3 mil cash (LAL)
> 
> *OKLAHOMA CITY* receives:
> C Nene Hilario (DEN)
> F Al Harrington (DEN)
> F Ron Artest (LAL)
> 2011 Second Rd Pick (LAL via NYK)
> 
> *LA LAKERS* receive:
> F Carmelo Anthony (DEN)
> F Chris Anderson (DEN)
> G Daequan Cook (OKC)
> 
> The *Nuggets* do this trade to get Bynum along with two young, talented wings with upside in Brown and Green. They also get cash and a late first to further soften the blow of losing their franchise cornerstone. If they extend Green and let their big money, unrestricted free agents walk (Krstic, Peterson, Kenyon, JR), they would only have a little over $30 mil in total salary going into next year. That should be pretty far under whatever the salary cap winds up being next season. Essentially, this would be an instant rebuild better than any of the other deals out there. If they manage to sell Billups off for expiring contracts and picks, that situation improves even further. Worst case: they'll still be much better than Cleveland post-Lebron.
> 
> The *Thunder* do this trade to solidify a championship-caliber rotation. Look at that line-up:
> 
> PG Westbrook
> SG Sefolosha
> SF Durant
> PF Collison
> C Nene
> ------------------
> PG Maynor
> SG Harden
> SF Artest
> PF Harrington
> C Ibaka
> ------------------
> Ivey, Mullens, White
> 
> Down the stretch, they'd have Westbrook, Harden, Durant, Nene, and Ibaka on the floor causing all kinds of problems. They could play stretches with Westbrook, Thabo, Artest, Durant, Ibaka out there that would shut teams down on one end and have a massive speed advantage at the other end. Also, Harrington would represent a better-rebounding version of what Nate Robinson brings Boston. Throw him out there in the first half to see if he gets hot. If so, play him 18-22 minutes. If not, sit him down immediately - no big deal. Plus, they'd be getting a guy (Artest) who is motivated to beat the Lakers. Nobody in the league defends Kobe better than Thabo, no one defends Gasol better than Ibaka, and no one defends Melo better than Artest. They would have essentially assembled a Laker-stopper-unit.
> 
> Still, the *Lakers* do this trade to shake up the team without losing their core or their identity. Birdman is a slight upgrade over Bynum defensively even though he is a big downgrade offensively. The upgrade from Artest to Melo will more than offset that difference, though. Cook would also offset the loss of shooting with Brown gone from the bench mob. Also, Bird's contract is the same length as Artest's but almost $2 mil cheaper per year.
> 
> I would argue that the Thunder and Lakers would be much better basketball teams poised to meet each other in this year's Western Conference Finals while the Nuggets will be an organization which is much better positioned financially and no longer being held hostage by their best player.


In theory that's a great trade for all sides, but I'm not sure the Lakers would be rushing to help OKC towards elite status by handing them Artest, especially while giving their own team a big shakeup at the same time. Denver and LA can produce a proper deal by themselves (at least financially), the main challenge is for LA to find someone who's willing to tolerate Artest and doesn't stand much of a chance of hurting them at playoff time.

This worked in the trade machine:

Bynum, Shannon Brown, Caracter, and DeSagana Diop to Denver

Anthony, Andersen, Shaun Livingston to LA

Harrington, Ratliff, and Luke Walton to Charlotte.

Denver gets Bynum, better than anything the Knicks have come up with, unload Andersen's deal to the Lakers (they need a big man after losing Bynum), Caracter is filler, and they get Diop for Charlotte for Harrington, losing 3 years of that contract in exchange for a little more AAV in the meantime.

Lakers' end of the deal speaks for itself, Anthony and Birdman are necessary pieces, they just swap out Walton for Livingston to make things work financially. 

I can't think of many good reasons for Charlotte to do this, but this is Jordan and the Bobcats we're talking about. No meaningful FA in their right mind would ever sign there, so at least Walton and Harrington's deals could be played as future trade chips to maybe, just maybe, someday bring someone useful to Charlotte by trade.

This trade's a little tricky when it comes to draft picks though, with LA owing a first this year (but having a plethora of second round picks to toss around) and Charlotte owing one next year. So no first rounders can be had until 2013, which Denver probably won't like. Hard to see any Artest deal helping with that.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Tragedy said:


> You mean pick up his last year and go into free agency in 2012. He'd be the number two free agent in 2012 at absolute best, and fourth overall.
> 
> Dwight, Deron and Paul will all be more coveted players. And if I were NY I'd go after Dwight or Deron first.


No, I mean get his extension within this CBA then pull the same act next year. 

People will say the Nuggets would have leverage because he'd be under contract to them, but what stars want they get. The Nuggets are on the way down anyway, so it'd still be understandable if he wanted out.

I don't think it's a huge guarantee Deron leaves Utah either. He doesn't strike me as someone trying to join the little billionaire boys clubs.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Rockets are already out of Melo deal without extension. They don't like Brooks or Hill as a centerpiece.

Knicks still have a chance. All Knicks need is just find a good player like Aldridge and find a team to take Al Harrington contract because Knicks don't want to send 8 players to Nuggets.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Oh, so it's as simple as taking the best player left in Portland and giving them Al Harrington and some McDonalds coupons..


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

this would work for Nuggets

Love to Nuggets

Harrington to Wolves and Knicks or 4th team send a package to Wolves

Melo to ny


----------



## Dre

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

And this is with whom people place their faith


----------



## ChosenFEW

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

melo's wife lala is in NY right now on some business meetings and such....(house shopping?)


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

How about this,

Felton/Gallo/Fields/Curry/AR for Melo/Billups?

McNuggets save 10 mil.


----------



## Dissonance

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Ballscientist said:


> How about this,
> 
> *Felton/Gallo/Fields/Curry/AR for Melo/Billups?*
> 
> McNuggets save 10 mil.


Smh.


----------



## Juggernaut

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

I'n an effort to save my sanity...









Though people quoting him will be a problem.

Melo's coming to NYC, my money's as a FA though. If we don't get him, I won't be heart broken.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



> The New York Daily News is reporting in its Tuesday edition that the Knicks turned down a trade proposal from the Nuggets that would have sent Carmelo Anthony to New York.
> 
> Reportedly the Nuggets wanted Danilo Gallinari, Raymond Felton, Eddy Curry and at least one first-round pick, but team president Donnie Walsh and head coach Mike D'Antoni thought that was too steep of a price to acquire Anthony and Chauncey Billups.


http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/features/rumors

I would've done that if I was New York. I could see where they didn't though, they must think Felton is that good. 

If this is true, interesting that the Nuggets are finally offering things to New York, that probably makes this one of those matter of time things.


----------



## afobisme

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

sheesh, what is the holdup.. that deal is such a winner for new york. seriously, raymond felton is the holdup?


----------



## Dre

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

He is younger than Billups. 

But then again you have to consider that system makes any PG look like a monster, plus with Melo and Amare being able to create their own offense, plus another rollover in cap space the year after, you don't exactly need an all-star PG. So I probably agree with you now that I think it through.


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Why would New York give up three (young) starters to make this deal happen? To help Denver? New York should just wait it out unless Denver gets desperate.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

There was a point where the Knicks and Nuggets were barely talking though, an actual offer on the table to work around is encouraging for the people who want this to get done for whatever reason.


----------



## afobisme

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

knicks will never amount to anything though, but at least they'll make the playoffs.

i mean seriously.. having amare as your main piece and d'antoni as your coach.. your defense will never even be decent.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Sir Patchwork said:


> Why would New York give up three (young) starters to make this deal happen? To help Denver? New York should just wait it out unless Denver gets desperate.


A) Melo and Fields make Gallo a spot player
B) Felton is good, but I explained the D'Antoni PG situation
C) Curry's not a good young starter, and if you're talking about the pick, they shouldn't let the unknown not knowing prevent them from getting someone they consider a franchise player. That pick will be high teens low 20s, hardly a guarantee of a starter of Gallo or Felton's caliber.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



afobisme said:


> knicks will never amount to anything though, but at least they'll make the playoffs.
> 
> i mean seriously.. having amare as your main piece and d'antoni as your coach.. your defense will never even be decent.


Carmelo and Amare is an offensive nightmare, plus all they have to do is find an actual center to put behind Amare. It shouldn't be an issue, especially with the Knicks name being valuable again in Free Agency. 

Everybody wants to play for D'Antoni, why wouldn't you want to do it in New York and win too? They could definitely turn into a team that could give the Heat some go, that's better than "not amounting to anything".


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

The version I read was on RealGM. 



> The Nuggets offered Anthony and Chauncey Billups to the Knicks for Danilo Gallinari, Raymond Felton, Eddy Curry, *another starter* and at least one first-round pick.


http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/210959/Nuggets_Seeking_Gallinari_Felton_Starter_And_Pick


----------



## Dre

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Well that's too much. I assume it would be Chandler or Fields which is just..too much.


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

That's a lot to give up for an aging point guard, and a franchise player who will just join your team this summer, if not by trade now.


----------



## 29380

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

The only thing I dont like about that trade is the Raymond Felton part I have no problem with dealing Felton but the Knicks have no legit backup PG. There is no way Billups 35+ min every night without breaking down. I wonder if Walsh can get Anthony Carter in the deal.


----------



## MemphisX

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Dre™ said:


> Well that's too much. I assume it would be Chandler or Fields which is just..too much.



To much? The Knicks had one good 14 game run and have been bad otherwise.


----------



## GrandKenyon6

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

The Nuggets shouldn't trade Carmelo. They should wait and see just how much Carmelo really values that extension.


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Biggest problem w/ the deal proposed is the Billups doesn't want to play for NY. He'd seek a buyout. So they are really losing Felton for nothing in the long-term of that swap.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



MemphisX said:


> To much? The Knicks had one good 14 game run and have been bad otherwise.


Chandler/Fields, Felton, a pick, cap relief and Gallo is still too much for the Nuggets to expect. 

Especially when what you're bringing in you kind of gave up. Scoring was never the issue, if it was Melo and Nene that's something different.


----------



## GrandKenyon6

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

And how is that package too much for the Knicks? They are getting the two best players in the trade. All they are trading is a role player, a starting point guard, and another role player for a superstar and a former All-Star.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



GrandKenyon6 said:


> The Nuggets shouldn't trade Carmelo. They should wait and see just how much Carmelo really values that extension.


I'll never understand this. Sitting on his hands and not trading this guy will end up with Ujiri in the unemployment line

People are acting like this extension is just life or death, if it was that serious he would've signed it already. 

And who said Chauncey doesn't want to be in New York?


----------



## GrandKenyon6

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Dre™ said:


> I'll never understand this. Sitting on his hands and not trading this guy will end up with Ujiri in the unemployment line
> 
> People are acting like this extension is just life or death, if it was that serious he would've signed it already.
> 
> And who said Chauncey doesn't want to be in New York?


Accepting that Knicks package is worse than losing him for nothing.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

That's stupid


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Dre™ said:


> I'll never understand this. Sitting on his hands and not trading this guy will end up with Ujiri in the unemployment line
> 
> People are acting like this extension is just life or death, if it was that serious he would've signed it already.
> 
> And who said Chauncey doesn't want to be in New York?


It's not so much he doesn't want to be in NY, he doesn't want to leave Denver at all. Chauncey said he wanted to eventually move into Denver's front office. Denver's his birthplace.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

That's true now, but when Melo leaves he's gonna wanna be on a winner, that's why the Nuggets are intent on trading him with Carmelo instead of having to buy him out. 

It's kind of a foregone conclusion Billups is out shortly after Melo one way or the other, the Nuggets and Chauncey are resigned to that outcome. He can always come back after his career is done, it's just business.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Dre™ said:


> I'll never understand this. Sitting on his hands and not trading this guy will end up with Ujiri in the unemployment line


He's toast if Carmelo leaves _unless_ Denver gets a big return. So, no, losing him for nothing won't get Ujiri fired any faster than he will for getting a pupu platter of suck. Unless he were to pull a rabbit out of his hat, he'd be joining the ranks of the gainfully unemployed the minute the Nuggets were in a position to draft a player of similar impact.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



E.H. Munro said:


> He's toast if Carmelo leaves _unless_ Denver gets a big return. So, no, losing him for nothing won't get Ujiri fired any faster than he will for getting a pupu platter of suck. Unless he were to pull a rabbit out of his hat, he'd be joining the ranks of the gainfully unemployed the minute the Nuggets were in a position to draft a player of similar impact.


Chandler, Gallo and Fields are all highly regarded, they could probably get good picks or players on the same tier at different positions for them. 

They'll also have cap room, it's not an ideal situation but it never will be when a prime superstar wants out. 

An NBA GM's job is to maximize his situation, not get nothing for a star player because you're not going to be good regardless. It's easy to armchair GM, but that's just ridiculous logic and implies you don't want to be competitive unless you have someone who makes it very easy to be such. In that case me or you could tank until we find the bossman a superstar. 

It's a tough situation, but looking like the Pacers is a lot better than looking like the Cavs. 

And any big time franchise is gonna need a little luck anyway be it through draft or a trade, that goes without saying. 

The best thing for the Nuggets to do is take these guys, be fairly competitive, cash a fair return, and hope you can spin them into a star or sign a big time free agent in due time, not let him leave and be losing 15 games in a row every two months. It's a business, not a videogame, you need to turn somewhat of a profit and not have people coming to your games with paper bags. 

If you traded your star for that package, why wouldn't the next team trade their star for that package or something similar. They can do a sign and trade, they can trade for a disgruntled guy, who knows. 

More teams have succeeded waiting for their move then outright sucking and hoping someone will save them.

End of the day the Nuggets have more flexibility and a more worthwhile value as a franchise getting something back then just letting him go and turning into a cess pool. You have options with assets, without them you have the Cavaliers. .


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

You understand that once Anthony leaves the Nuggets are going to be terrible for much longer than the shelf life of the average NBA GM? And that Ujiri's going to get fired for the Nuggets suckage even though it isn't his fault? He's dead either way. Landing a pair of roleplayers and the chance to draft another roleplayer isn't going to save his job.



Dre™;6490380 said:


> It's a tough situation, but looking like the Pacers is a lot better than looking like the Cavs


Unlike the post-'Melo Nuggets, the Pacers have a legit all star to build around.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



E.H. Munro said:


> You understand that once Anthony leaves the Nuggets are going to be terrible for much longer than the shelf life of the average NBA GM? And that Ujiri's going to get fired for the Nuggets suckage even though it isn't his fault? He's dead either way. Landing a pair of roleplayers and the chance to draft another roleplayer isn't going to save his job.


He has options with those guys, and a chance that they can become a team like the Rockets and overachieve until he can maneuver into a player to build around. 

And no, that might not even save his job, but if you propose basically quitting, letting him walk and walking a plank is the best option for him, then...I don't know what to say about you. 

Like do you even hear yourself. I guess he should just wipe his hands of the situation and go to the Bahamas for the next 2 years until Kroenke calls him and tells him to get his stuff.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



E.H. Munro said:


> Unlike the post-'Melo Nuggets, the Pacers have a legit all star to build around.


And why couldn't the Nuggets flip Chandler/Fields and/or Gallo and/or JR and/or Lawson into a Granger caliber player?


----------



## MemphisX

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Dre™ said:


> And why couldn't the Nuggets flip Chandler/Fields and/or Gallo and/or JR and/or Lawson into a Granger caliber player?


Let's be clear. Those players values are inflated right now. The Knicks are 2 weeks away from being a losing team without making a move and there is ZERO chance the next CBA allows them to get Melo for nothing like NYK fans think. 

The mistake Denver made is that they should not have even entertained the idea of trading him.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



MemphisX said:


> Let's be clear. Those players values are inflated right now. The Knicks are 2 weeks away from being a losing team without making a move and there is ZERO chance the next CBA allows them to get Melo for nothing like NYK fans think.
> 
> The mistake Denver made is that they should not have even entertained the idea of trading him.


And with extra shots in Denver why wouldn't their value stay the same or increase.

Like I said hypothetically if Granger wanted out the Pacers could do a lot worse than a package like that. OK, add a pick, but you can get that anywhere.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Nuggets proposal is a lot of better than Knicks one.

One first unprotected first rounder from Wolves or 2 unprotected first from Knicks. Knicks need to pick one.

3 starters sound "not too bad".


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Nuggets don't want Chandler because he needs to have re-surgery on his ankle and he ....


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Dre™ said:


> He has options with those guys, and a chance that they can become a team like the Rockets and overachieve until he can maneuver into a player to build around.


Unless he finds a superstar that demands to be traded to Denver and refuses to play for any other team there's zero chance that he can turn an overpriced Wilson Chandler into a legitimate #1 option.



Dre™ said:


> And no, that might not even save his job, but if you propose basically quitting, letting him walk and walking a plank is the best option for him, then...I don't know what to say about you.


Let me put this another way, if 'Melo leaves he's walking the plank either way. So, the options are, *A* trade/lose 'Melo, get fired, or, *B* hold onto 'Melo and hope that he changes his mind and decides that he likes $84 million more than $40 million, and save his job. Option B may only have a 1/100 shot, but a 1% chance of survival is better than 0% chance of survival.



Dre™ said:


> Like I said hypothetically if Granger wanted out the Pacers could do a lot worse than a package like that. OK, add a pick, but you can get that anywhere.


It would be pretty tough for the Pacers to do worse than a couple of roleplayers and a free agent to be that needs ankle surgery and looking for a payday.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



E.H. Munro said:


> Unless he finds a superstar that demands to be traded to Denver and refuses to play for any other team there's zero chance that he can turn an overpriced Wilson Chandler into a legitimate #1 option.


Who said it just has to be Chandler?




> Let me put this another way, if 'Melo leaves he's walking the plank either way. So, the options are, *A* trade/lose 'Melo, get fired, or, *B* hold onto 'Melo and hope that he changes his mind and decides that he likes $84 million more than $40 million, and save his job. Option B may only have a 1/100 shot, but a 1% chance of survival is better than 0% chance of survival.


Like I said not getting something for a guy who doesn't want to be there, and hoping he changes his mind is just dumb and basically resigning your position.




> It would be pretty tough for the Pacers to do worse than a couple of roleplayers and a free agent to be that needs ankle surgery and looking for a payday.


Yeah right. "Mere" all-stars never get equal value back. Especially when the only situations those types are traded are in trade ups or when they want out, and at either juncture the team with the Granger has less leverage and is basically auctioning. 

We can agree to disagree though.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

new cba most updated proposal:

max contract is 4 year 47 mil

Chandler is seeking for 60 million contract.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Dre™;6490480 said:


> Who said it just has to be Chandler?


If you're expecting teams with superstars to call Denver and breathlessly tell Ujiri that they just _have_ to have a roleplaying swing forward or a roleplaying swingman no matter what the cost I have this bridge I'd like to interest you in...



Dre™;6490480 said:


> Like I said not getting something for a guy who doesn't want to be there, and hoping he changes his mind is just dumb and basically resigning your position.


If he loses 'Melo for roleplayers he's done. So what you're saying is that he should get himself fired to avoid being fired. 



Dre™;6490480 said:


> Yeah right. "Mere" all-stars never get equal value back.


Granger's signed to an extension. If the Pacers decided to put him on the market the deal will look a lot more like the deals Boston made for Allen & Garnett than the deal New York's offering Denver.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



E.H. Munro said:


> If you're expecting teams with superstars to call Denver and breathlessly tell Ujiri that they just _have_ to have a roleplaying swing forward or a roleplaying swingman no matter what the cost I have this bridge I'd like to interest you in...


The hyperbole doesn't serve you. 



> If he loses 'Melo for roleplayers he's done. So what you're saying is that he should get himself fired to avoid being fired.


No. I think I spelled out my position a lot more clearly than that. Getting assets back to potentially trade along, or create a team like the Rockets makes more sense than just quitting. 



> Granger's signed to an extension. If the Pacers decided to put him on the market the deal will look a lot more like the deals Boston made for Allen & Garnett than the deal New York's offering Denver.


*Delusional.* You think someone's going to gut their youth movement for a guy who's not even a franchise player? 

You think the Wizards say would give up Blatche, McGee, Young and Thornton for Granger?


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Portland was willing to trade Deron Williams+ for Pierce years ago, but Pierce refused to sign an extension with the 'Blazers because he wanted to win in Boston, not elsewhere. Were the Trailblazers delusional? Was Ainge delusional for trading the fifth pick for a non-franchise player?


----------



## Dre

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



E.H. Munro said:


> Portland was willing to trade Deron Williams+ for Pierce years ago, but Pierce refused to sign an extension with the 'Blazers because he wanted to win in Boston, not elsewhere. Were the Trailblazers delusional?


You mean Brandon Roy+?

And yes, the Blazers were dumb if they were willing to do that. **** by Roy's third year people were saying he was in Pierce's tier.

Bottomline all this nitpicking doesn't change anything. If you're a GM and you'd rather let a superstar walk then get something for him you're an idiot, and that's that.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

No, I mean Deron Williams. Prior to the '05 draft, when the Blazers were sitting in the third spot, they put together a package around the pick for Pierce. Boston's interest was in Williams, but Pierce didn't want to leave Boston so he refused to sign an extension with Portland and the Blazers traded Willams to Utah for nothing (more or less). 

Put another way, contrary to your assertion teams do give up real assets for real all stars unless there are outside circumstances interfering, like a player refusing to go anywhere. (Or are you contending that the Nets were delusional for offering Favors & Harris for 'Melo?)

Portland never offered Roy to Boston because they _bought_ him _from_ Boston for however many millions of dollars they saved by trading Theo Ratliff's insurance policy for Raef Lafrentz.


----------



## Tragedy

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Changed my stance.

Gallo, Felton, Chandler/Fields, Curry is not too high a price IMO for Melo and Billups.

Knicks get their man, who's better than both Gallo and Chandler. I'd try to keep Fields because he's more consistent night in, and I feel his skillset will work well with Carmelo's.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Experts suggest that Knicks should wait on Melo.

1. Costs are too high - give up a lot of assets

2. Dallors are too high - 3 years 65 mil now
Result:

Knicks will have cap space to sign Paul and Howard soon if they wait.

Good or bad idea?


----------



## Hyperion

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



E.H. Munro said:


> Portland was willing to trade Deron Williams+ for Pierce years ago, but Pierce refused to sign an extension with the 'Blazers because he wanted to win in Boston, not elsewhere. Were the Trailblazers delusional? Was Ainge delusional for trading the fifth pick for a non-franchise player?


Three months before they got kg, they were about to trade jefferson to min for marion w/ a 20 mill/year extension. The suns would gave received kg. but thankfully marion refused to sign the extension with that stipulation and it's been nothing but championships for phoenix and 20 million /year contacts for marion.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

If a trade actually gets done this might be one of the biggest threads in the history of the main board


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Hyperion said:


> Three months before they got kg, they were about to trade jefferson to min for marion w/ a 20 mill/year extension. The suns would gave received kg. but thankfully marion refused to sign the extension with that stipulation and it's been nothing but championships for phoenix and 20 million /year contacts for marion.


Right, that's my point, teams have been willing to pay for talent in the absence of interfering factors (such as Pierce refusing to go to Portland or Anthony refusing to go anywhere but New York). Heck, before Garnett refused to sign an extension with Boston prior to the '08 draft Boston was willing to give Minnesota Jefferson and #5 to land him.


----------



## ChosenFEW

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



MemphisX said:


> To much? The Knicks had one good 14 game run and have been bad otherwise.



2nd youngest team in the league....


hold your horses there buddy


----------



## BenDengGo

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Dre™ said:


> If a trade actually gets done this might be one of the biggest threads in the history of the main board


the biggest thread on the nba forum with an actuall topic is *Tim Hardaway: "I hate gay people"* with 1464 posts.

thats just less than 400 posts to go.


----------



## Sleepepro

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



BenDengGo said:


> the biggest thread on the nba forum with an actuall topic is *Tim Hardaway: "I hate gay people"* with 1464 posts.
> 
> thats just less than 400 posts to go.


Man that should be locked and stickied forever. 

We've got less than 2 weeks till the deadline, it's possible


----------



## RollWithEm

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



BenDengGo said:


> the biggest thread on the nba forum with an actuall topic is *Tim Hardaway: "I hate gay people"* with 1464 posts.
> 
> thats just less than 400 posts to go.


That is definitely something to shoot for... I'll contribute.


----------



## Juggernaut

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

How hard could 400 posts be?

I still say that if we can trade chandler/galo/curry/randolph for melo, we should do it. No more than that.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Which one is better for Nuggets?

Favors/Harris/2 NETS unprotected first rounders for Melo

Felton/Gallo/Fields/1 Knicks unprotected first rounder/Curry for Melo/Billups


----------



## MemphisX

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



ChosenFEW said:


> 2nd youngest team in the league....
> 
> 
> hold your horses there buddy



LMAO...none of the Knicks young players are worth a damn relatively speaking. A bunch of young players, none of which is likely to see an ASG.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



MemphisX said:


> LMAO...none of the Knicks young players are worth a damn relatively speaking.


*Exactly correct!

Those young Knicks are absolutely useless in term of playoffs success in the West. Even Wolves and Kings don't want them at all. They can easily pick up the roll players in summer.*


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Let's do it! Everybody


----------



## afobisme

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

yeah i don't think anyone outside of amare is worth anything.. gallinari is definitely junk to me. wilson chandler could be decent but he's the last piece that you add to your team type of guy.


----------



## Hyperion

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



MemphisX said:


> LMAO...none of the Knicks young players are worth a damn relatively speaking. A bunch of young players, none of which is likely to see an ASG.


If any of them were, they wouldn't be traded in the Nuggets' fire sale.


----------



## Tragedy

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

It's not so much about the value of the Knicks players so much as Denver painting themselves into a corner.

I think as it gets closer to the trade deadline, they'll be happy to at least have a draft pick to show for it, in the off chance Melo does walk in the offseason, and hopefully have a decent cheap player or two. Gallo is still on his rookie contract so Denver would have options with him.

Not saying it's ideal at all, but at the end of the day, the GM's job is not as in danger as some think. This situation originated straight from the offseason free agent signings. Had those not occurred I doubt Carmelo makes much noise.

The Nuggets GM will survive this mess, because it was literally thrown on his lap. It's not a Danny Ferry situation where he had seasons upon seasons to get a team around Lebron. This guy is new and came into this situation already brewing.

So in the end, he can at least say - "Hey, he was walking anyway, there was nothing that could be done, so at least I got a draft pick and so and so very cheap"

If Melo not signing the extension didn't scare off other teams they'd never deal with the Knicks pieces. So it's not an overvaluation of Knicks players, it's just that the Knicks are the only team they can negotiate with for a potential trade. Unless another team wouldn't mind taking Melo with no extension.

The Knicks just need to make a respectable offer without giving away too many bodies. If Denver says no, see what happens in the offseason. Bet you if Melo says no and DOESN'T want to resign with Denver they'll do a sign and trade for someone on the Knicks roster. But if Melo stays, the Knicks move on. Maybe take their cap space to 2012?


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

At the end of the day, it's a business. Denver can't market "Hey, we suck, but we didn't have a choice, come see us lose 55 games and compete for the first pick in the draft!" indefinitely. The way it works is that first the team fires the coach to convince the fans that they're serious about getting better. And when that doesn't work they fire the GM. 

So it doesn't matter that this isn't Ujiri's fault, and it doesn't matter if all he can get is a roleplayer and a low first round pick in a bad draft. If/when he trades Anthony he has three years to get the Nuggets back into the playoffs. As sucking in 2011 will literally not help them (because in this draft the best they'll be able to do with a low lottery pick is yet another roleplayer), he would have two years to find a cornerstone player that draws the fans in or seek career counseling for a new job. It's just the economics of the thing.

They can always give Anthony away over the summer and get the same pupu platter of suck.


----------



## Tragedy

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



E.H. Munro said:


> At the end of the day, it's a business. Denver can't market "Hey, we suck, but we didn't have a choice, come see us lose 55 games and compete for the first pick in the draft!" indefinitely. The way it works is that first the team fires the coach to convince the fans that they're serious about getting better. And when that doesn't work they fire the GM.
> 
> So it doesn't matter that this isn't Ujiri's fault, and it doesn't matter if all he can get is a roleplayer and a low first round pick in a bad draft. If/when he trades Anthony he has three years to get the Nuggets back into the playoffs. As sucking in 2011 will literally not help them (because in this draft the best they'll be able to do with a low lottery pick is yet another roleplayer), he would have two years to find a cornerstone player that draws the fans in or seek career counseling for a new job. It's just the economics of the thing.
> 
> They can always give Anthony away over the summer and get the same pupu platter of suck.


I agree with that. But posts here make it seem like if he loses Melo he's done ASAP. Your posts too. Now you're saying he has three seasons.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

No, I think I've been pretty clear that if he gives Anthony away he's done. And that's really not arguable because the 2011 draft is biblically bad, and he'll need massive amounts of luck in 2012 to save his job. (And luck is not a plan.)

Case in point, when Ainge took over the Celtics during the '03 playoffs, the owners used him as blast shielding. They literally forced him to give away Boston's second best player for someone that was likely to be injured, therefore tallowing them to collect contract insurance in place of paying a player and being over the luxury tax line (and that's the dirty little secret of why they approached Dallas about trading for Lafrentz right after the injury stories surfaced).

Despite the fact that they forced him to gut the team, and make it suck (for example, forcing him to sell off the team's '07 lottery pick for cash in the form of Theo Ratliff's insurance policy), they were ready to fire him right after the '08 draft in order to convince Boston's disgusted fans to start buying tickets again. It was only the fans' response to the Ray Allen trade (a lot of season tickets were sold the next morning) that saved Ainge's job. (And I can tell you that for a fact as I used to have a source inside their IT department.)


----------



## HB

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

*Joisey*



> Less than a month after the New Jersey Nets pulled out of trade talks, the Denver Nuggets have re-engaged the Nets in discussions on a blockbuster deal for Carmelo Anthony(notes), league sources told Yahoo! Sports.
> 
> One source described talks as “progressing” and said they have been ongoing between Denver and New Jersey officials over a week. While the precise package being discussed was unclear, sources said talks have centered on a scaled-down package that still includes rookie forward Derrick Favors(notes) and draft picks


As the world turns....


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

NY reporters said this morning: only Mavs have a chance to keep Melo from Knicks.

Could you tell me why this report is completely different?


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

melo-Nets talk is coming up.

http://www.sportsreport360.com/2011/01/nba-rumors-nuggets-give-nets-permission-to-speak-to-melo/

Knicks please add 2018 and 2020 first rounders.


----------



## Tragedy

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

I don't buy it. All Melo will have to do is say no again.


----------



## Luke

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

I hate this thread. Just trade the man already.


----------



## Dissonance

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Tragedy said:


> I don't buy it. All Melo will have to do is say no again.


:yes:


----------



## roux

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



VanillaPrice said:


> I hate this thread. Just trade the man already.


amen


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Today,

One Executive says "Denver is convinced the Knicks’ deal isn’t a good one, why do it?”

My opinion: Knicks need to add a good centerpiece like Love or Granger from third team.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

If they had enough to trade for Granger or Love without gutting the roster they would have done so by now. If the package they're willing to offer isn't good enough to land a guy forcing his way out and unwilling to sign an extension with anyone else then it's not going to be enough for a borderline all-star will multiple years left on their deal.


----------



## Dissonance

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Another swing and miss there BS.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

espn news

Melo and Nets owner meeting

http://espn.go.com/blog/TrueHoop/post/_/id/24935/latest-carmelo-anthony-trade-buzz

Key to win for Knicks: Offer someone who has a better potential than Derrick Favors.

Knicks GM sucks. He has no friendship with any team.


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

How is this thread still getting posted in? Will it go on during the summer?


----------



## Dissonance

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

4 1st rders?



> Denver-NJ in advanced talks on Anthony, Billups, Balkman, Ely, Williams for Favors, Harris, Murphy, Uzoh and 4 1st rounders, source tells Y!
> 
> 
> Once again, Nets-Nuggets have framework of a deal, but Anthony needs to be sold. Prokhorov-Melo meeting could take place in LA this weekend.


WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Now I am 95% sure that Nuggets will take Nets offer. Favors > Felton

Knicks can only offer Fields, Felton and Chandler (2 month rental).


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

I wonder who would start in Denver between Harris and Lawson.


----------



## Dissonance

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

I remembering hearing when they first talked months ago, Denver called around to use Harris as bait to flip him somewhere else. Apparently, Portland is interested in him.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

4 first rounders >>>> Anthony R


----------



## Dre

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

We will see. This is going down to the buzzer.


----------



## HB

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Sir Patchwork said:


> I wonder who would start in Denver between Harris and Lawson.


You wonder? Harris is a much better player.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

They aren't winning **** anyway so I'd just play both of them. Let Harris get the ball, put his head down and try to get a bucket or foul, and let Lawson do the setting of the table.


----------



## ChosenFEW

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

so melo would leave the nuggets because he wants to win.... only to join the nets who have just fire sold their team to get him... at least in NY he'd have amar'e..... with the nets its just going to be marbury part.2


----------



## RollWithEm

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

The thing I keep wondering is if yo're Denver, why aren't you trying as hard as possible to lure CP3 or DWill or Howard to your team to entice Melo to stay?


----------



## e-monk

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



RollWithEm said:


> The thing I keep wondering is if yo're Denver, why aren't you trying as hard as possible to lure CP3 or DWill or Howard to your team to entice Melo to stay?


maybe because they've already tried AI and Chauncey and it didnt seem to work? also none of the guys you mention want to move to Denver


----------



## Vuchato

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Sources tell The Record there is a tentative agreement between the Nets and Nuggets for Carmelo Anthony. Still need him to agree to an ext.

If true, looks like its up to Melo to decide if he wants to join the Nets. Al is a good source, told me the 4 first rounders would be the Nets this year, along with the Lakers this year (top 18 protected), Warriors next year (top 7 protected), and Rockets next year (lottery protected)


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

I mean given what the Knicks were offering, makes sense the Nuggets would agree w/ the Nets if given the opportunity. I feel like Carmelo doesn't want to join the franchise though. Don't see him becoming a Net.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

What is the differ between Tentative Agreement & Agreement in Principle?

Knicks can still beat this agreement if they get a centerpiece like Love/Granger and unprotected Wolves/Pacers first rounders?


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Knicks management is really frustrated. Nuggets are greedy. They agree to offer Felton, Fields, Chandler, AR and Curry for melo and Billups. Nuggets still want more.


----------



## Floods

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

The Nuggets are greedy, even though the Knicks are the ones who didn't want to trade Felton and garbage for Melo and Billups. Huh.


----------



## DaRizzle

*Nets reach tentative agreement for Carmelo*

Just saw on bottom line of ESPN


----------



## Bogg

*Re: Nets reach tentative agreement for Carmelo*

This is, what, the third or fourth time this season? I'll believe it when it's finalized.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Nets reach tentative agreement for Carmelo*

I predict
Nuggets owners are going to tell Melo. Sign with Nets or stay with Nuggets. We are not going to trade you to Knicks because ......

Favors > Fields

Harris = Felton

Merphy plus 4 first rounders > Curry plus AR


----------



## DaRizzle

*Re: Nets reach tentative agreement for Carmelo*



> The Nets and Nuggets reportedly have reached a tentative agreement on a trade that would send Carmelo Anthony to New Jersey.
> 
> The deal is pending Anthony's agreement on a long-term contract extension with the Nets.
> 
> The trade would send Anthony, Chauncey Billups, Sheldon Williams, Melvin Ely and Renaldo Balkman to New Jersey, and Devin Harris, Derrick Favors, Troy Murphy, Ben Uzoh and four first-round draft picks to Denver.
> 
> Denver would then try to unload Murphy's contract on a third team, presumably using one or more of the picks received from New Jersey.
> 
> If Anthony turns down the Nets' overtures, the Knicks are expected to be the frontrunners to acquire Anthony before next week's trade deadline.


Read more: http://basketball.realgm.com/wireta...tive_Agreement_On_Carmelo_Trade#ixzz1EKwpwPfQ


----------



## 29380

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

*No deal in place to send Nuggets forward Carmelo Anthony to Nets, team official says*


> A team official who is up-to-date on the talks between the Nets and Denver Nuggets regarding All-Star forward Carmelo Anthony told The Star-Ledger that no deal has been agreed to between the teams and as of now, no meeting has been set between Anthony and the Nets to discuss whether he would sign a contract extension if he were traded to the team.
> 
> The official requested anonymity because talks between the teams are confidential.
> 
> The Bergen Record reported today that the Nets and Nuggets had agreed to terms on a deal to send Anthony east, and a meeting had been arranged between the player and Nets officials.
> 
> Nets owner Mikhail Prokhorov declared on Jan. 19 that the Nets were ending their pursuit of Anthony because the negotiations had dragged on too long, become too public, and the price for Anthony had risen too high. But the teams reportedly restarted talks over a week ago, and a second team official said Prokhorov has taken over handling the Anthony deal, negotiating directly with Denver's front office.
> 
> The official was granted anonymity because he is not authorized to speak for the Nets.
> 
> The second official was asked if giving up two starters and four first round picks to Denver, as has been reported, seems like a lot to give up for Anthony.
> 
> "It does, but you've got to get that first star,'' he said. "The first star will get the second star. Those guys attract players.''
> 
> Any deal agreed to by the teams for Anthony, however, would likely be contingent on Anthony signing a contract extension to stay with the Nets beyond this season. Anthony has refused to sign a three-year, $65-million extension with the Nuggets.
> 
> The Nets will have to meet with Anthony to hear whether he would sign with them. Prokhorov and Nets general manager Billy King are in Los Angeles -- where Anthony will participate in the NBA All-Star Game this weekend -- for the NBA GM meetings and Board of Governors' meetings. Nets CEO Brett Yormark and minority owner Jay-Z are reportedly going to be there, as well.
> 
> Reports say the Nets are talking about sending point guard Devin Harris and rookie power forward Derrick Favors, as well as banished power forward Troy Murphy, rookie Ben Uzoh and four first round picks to Denver for Anthony, point guard Chauncey Billups, and forwards Shelden Williams, Melvin Ely and Renaldo Balkman.
> 
> The second official also said that regardless of whether or not a deal to send Anthony to the Nets is finally consummated, it appears Harris' time with the Nets is over.
> 
> The team has "a couple'' of potential deals for Harris on the table, according to the official, one of which has been reported as sending him to Portland for some package that would include 34-year-old point guard Andre Miller coming to the Nets, along with other pieces. Shooting guard Anthony Morrow's name has been mentioned as another player that would interest the Blazers. Backup center Joel Przyzbilla and guard Rudy Fernandez could reportedly come to New Jersey in that deal.


http://www.nj.com/nets/index.ssf/2011/02/no_deal_in_place_to_send_nugge.html


----------



## DaRizzle

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

lol...the knicks fan posts that article...lol...well done


----------



## Ron

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



DaRizzle said:


> lol...the knicks fan posts that article...lol...well done


It's a New Jersey newspaper.


----------



## CosaNostra

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



DaRizzle said:


> lol...the knicks fan posts that article...lol...well done


Not sure what that has to do with anything... I'm a Lakers fan and I would be absolutely shocked if he ended up signing with New Jersey. It's extremely obvious he only wants to go to the Knicks.


----------



## 29380

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



> [Denver supposedly wants Nets deal, but lets 'Melo meet secretly with Dolan on Thursday? Prokhorov will regret going down this road again.


http://www.twitter.com/wojyahoonba


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

I'd say the Nuggets is the most powerful party of the three. They can always say they don't like the Knicks deal. *Knicks will not offer a better deal than Nets without another team's help.*

Carmelo Will Agree To Nets If Knicks Can't Make Trade

Read more: http://basketball.realgm.com/wireta..._Nets_If_Knicks_Cant_Make_Trade#ixzz1EMF79KlH


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

If Chris Mullin is still here, Warriors would offer Monte Ellis and 2 unprotected first rounders for Eddy Curry.

Nuggets get Monte Ellis, Felton, Gallo, Fields and Warriors 2 unprotected first rounders.

GS get Eddy Curry

Knicks get Melo/nene


----------



## HB

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Spears said Gallo, Felton, Chandler, Chandler, Curry and a 1st rounder have been offered for Melo and Billups....cot damn, Nuggets are making out like bandits.


----------



## c_dog

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

it's freaking carmelo anthony. he's a big name but he's not that good. why are teams giving up the house for him? he ain't no lebron or kobe. he's carmelo. and with all this drama i would just walk away.

knicks end up with just carmelo and stoudemire. come on now. they are giving up their entire roster for one guy.


----------



## CosaNostra

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Carmelo, Amare and Billups alone is probably enough to be a top 5 seed in the East.


----------



## jmk

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Please lord let the Nuggets accept the Knicks offer. The way this contest is going, the winner is the one who walks away without Melo on their team.


----------



## c_dog

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



CosaNostra said:


> Carmelo, Amare and Billups alone is probably enough to be a top 5 seed in the East.


top 5 in the east means nothing. the east is pathetic outside of boston and miami. orlando and chicago have some potential but the rest of the east would be borderline playoff teams in the west. knicks are arguably the 5th best team already(atlanta being debatable) even without carmelo. the current knicks core can be really good together. there is a lot of balance with what these guys can do. wilson chandler is basically a poor man's carmelo anthony already. felton has played great and gallinari gives him a mismatch every night with his combination of size-speed-sharp shooting. throw in the draft pick and i think it's a ridiculous deal for a player not named lebron james/kobe bryant/kevin durant/chris paul.


----------



## MemphisX

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

:explosion:


c_dog said:


> it's freaking carmelo anthony. he's a big name but he's not that good. why are teams giving up the house for him? he ain't no lebron or kobe. he's carmelo. and with all this drama i would just walk away.
> 
> knicks end up with just carmelo and stoudemire. come on now. they are giving up their entire roster for one guy.


He's a hall of famer in his prime. Get a clue.


----------



## afobisme

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

lame.. rumor syas "melo agrees to nets if knicks can't make trade"

sounds like a ploy by the denver camp to get new york to play ball.


----------



## c_dog

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



MemphisX said:


> :explosion:
> 
> He's a hall of famer in his prime. Get a clue.


hall of famer? i don't think he's a hall of famer at this point. what has he done so far other than make the playoffs 7 times and only advancing past the 1st round once(and in a season where billups was arguably the best player)? he's a perennial all-star who gets all-nba consideration but HOF is pushing it at this point. if he does something in the future then maybe. he's only a sure HOF player to ppl who started watching basketball in 2003.


----------



## Seanzie

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



MemphisX said:


> :explosion:
> 
> He's a hall of famer in his prime. Get a clue.


Is he really a hall of famer? I don't know. I'm not trying to argue semantics, but a damn good scorer - yes. A HoFer? Not yet. Not even close right now.


----------



## 29380

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



HB said:


> Spears said Gallo, Felton, Chandler, Curry and a 1st rounder have been offered for Melo and Billups....cot damn, Nuggets are making out like bandits.


This was pretty much what I expected the Knicks final offer to be 2/3 of Gallo/Fields/Chandler, Eddy Curry, and a 1st rounder the Felton Billups swap is a suprises but if the Knicks can get back a legit backup PG like Anthony Carter who can run the offence it would be a big plus.


----------



## mvP to the Wee

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Knicks4life said:


> This was pretty much what I expected the Knicks final offer to be 2/3 of Gallo/Fields/Chandler, Eddy Curry, and a 1st rounder the Felton Billups swap is a suprises but if the Knicks can get back a legit backup PG like Anthony Carter who can run the offence it would be a big plus.


I don't think anyone who watches Denver regularly will say Anthony Carter is a legit backup PG anymore


----------



## 29380

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



P to the Wee said:


> I don't think anyone who watches Denver regularly will say Anthony Carter is a legit backup PG anymore


As long as he can run D'antoni's offence better than Toney Douglas he's an upgrade at the backup PG spot.


----------



## mvP to the Wee

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Knicks4life said:


> As long as he can run D'antoni's offence better than Toney Douglas he's an upgrade at the backup PG spot.


Apparently Carter is now so bad that Basel would be better off running a team at PG.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Melo will be Nets or Knicks?*

Ballscientist value analysis:

Favors = 6 (hype)
Fields = 4

Harris = 3 (overpaid now)
Feltons = 5

Merphy = -2
Curry = -4 (with trade kicker)

Nets first rounder = 5
Gallo = 5

Warriors first = 4
Chandler = 2 (2 months rental and need re-surgery on the same ankle)

Lakers/Rockets first = 3
Wolves (Griz first protected) = 2

total
Nets = 19
Knicks = 14


----------



## Gx

*Re: Melo will be Nets or Knicks?*

Value doesn't matter at all. What Melo wants, he gets. If he wants to go to the Nets then they're gonna get him. If he doesn't, then he'll be a knick sooner or later.


----------



## thaKEAF

*Re: Melo will be Nets or Knicks?*

The Nets deal is worse because he's not teaming up with another star like Amare and they're giving up FOUR first round picks? WTF?


----------



## Tragedy

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

This running gag on Basel is laaaaaaaaaaaaaaame. 

The meme is dead. And it was never funny.


----------



## rayz789

*Re: Melo will be Nets or Knicks?*



thaKEAF said:


> The Nets deal is worse because he's not teaming up with another star like Amare and they're giving up FOUR first round picks? WTF?


Both The Nets and The Knicks deals are terrible. The Nets are retarded to give up 4 first round picks? 


The Knicks are stupid to give up Chandler, Galo, Felton all for Melo. If Melo wants to go to the knicks so bad then why risk with this stupid trade? If Melo wants to go there then he will as a free agent.


----------



## HB

*Re: Melo will be Nets or Knicks?*

Nuggets are the winners but I'll be shocked if he doesnt go to NY


----------



## Ron

*‘Melo says nothing yet, but he hopes to have offer this weekend*

*‘Melo says nothing yet, but he hopes to have offer this weekend*



> “Before I leave (Los Angeles) I would love to have something on the table,” Anthony said. “I would love to have a legit offer on the table where we can sit down and they can say to me ‘this is what we have’ and we can figure it out….
> 
> “I hope it’s not at the 11th hour trade deadline. I do need my rest. I need to get some sleep. I don’t need that much stress on me.”


Interesting.


----------



## CosaNostra

*Re: Melo will be Nets or Knicks?*

Why isn't there a Lakers option


----------



## Babir

*Re: Melo will be Nets or Knicks?*

There is a chance he'll resign with the Nuggets...


----------



## Ron

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

*Prokhorov says nyet to meeting with ‘Melo, Knicks in driver’s seat*

If this is true, let's see if/how the Knicks can **** this up. :|


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

From realgm



> Carmelo Anthony has informed people close to him that he will not sign an extension with the Nets, according to sources.
> 
> Anthony has had a longstanding preference to play for the Knicks.
> 
> If the Knicks and Nuggets are unable to complete a trade, Anthony must still weigh his options of whether to risk not signing an extension with the looming uncertainty of the NBA's next collective bargaining agreement.


http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/211129/Carmelo_Wont_Sign_Extension_With_Nets#ixzz1ESC61Ygr


----------



## c_dog

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

knicks need to sit tight. they got this. it's obvious melo doesn't want to go anywhere but new york. no point in the knicks gutting their team for someone who would come crawling to them after his contract expires with nuggets.


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

This thing is going in circles. Doubt this deal gets done. I just don't see it happening.


----------



## 29380

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



> Breaking: Nets are meeting with Carmelo tonight, sources tell Daily News. Could be a way to force the Knicks hand


http://twitter.com/FisolaNYDN


----------



## Dre

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

There aren't any circles at all, people are just allowing themselves to get spun. Carmelo will not resign with the Nets. The Nuggets know this, but pulled them back in to bluff and have Dolan reach out over Walsh and negotiate himself. 

Walsh has been twiddling his thumbs with the crux of pretty much one offer all along, but Dolan with all his vanity and obsession with Carmelo has finally started communicating with Denver on his own, and is willing to offer the 3 starters Walsh wasn't. He also has Isiah in his ear saying do it, and you know Isiah is the king of overpaying for what he wants...Isiah and Dolan communicate more than Walsh and Dolan. 

Bottomline is Dolan is dying to have Carmelo, and Carmelo still prefers the Knicks. The Nets were just in it to force the Knicks hand, they have no shot. I'm sure what Dolan will tell Carmelo when they cross paths is not to feel slighted the Knicks didn't do that initial offer (as there were whispers he's frustrated the Knicks haven't been willing to trade whatever for him), he's putting it on Walsh and maybe making some hints to Walsh's job status also, given he won't be the one to execute this and he's expiring after the end of the year. 

Carmelo will be a Knick by the deadline if not before, I'd put anything on that. I'd put confident money he doesn't return to Denver after the break, but I put all my money on him being a Knick on Friday.


----------



## Dissonance

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Yep. Been saying this since this mess started.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Melo will be Nets or Knicks?*

Nets owners will meet with Melo tonight.

http://twitter.com/FisolaNYDN

So far, Nuggets don't want Knicks offer. They want Melo to meet with Nets.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Merged the poll into this


----------



## Dissonance

*Re: Melo will be Nets or Knicks?*



Ballscientist said:


> Nets owners will meet with Melo tonight.
> 
> http://twitter.com/FisolaNYDN
> 
> So far, Nuggets don't want Knicks offer. They want Melo to meet with Nets.


Too bad for them.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

The only reason he hasn't out and said he won't sign with the Nets is out of respect, but don't get it twisted. He's not that into you, Prokhorov

But hey maybe if you catch him after a couple drinks he'll say yes but then sober up and decline. That's half a win


----------



## Dre

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Think about it, you didn't hear Felton's name one time all year in these discussions until the past week, and now all of a sudden he's part of the Knicks' package. Why do you think that is.


----------



## GrandKenyon6

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

It's still up to Denver. They don't have to accept that garbage package from the Knicks. And they shouldn't. The Nets' offer is better.

If I'm Denver I tell Melo it's either the Nets or us. How much do you really value that extension?

Melo will value the extension more than the Knicks.


----------



## 29380

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



> Arrangement was described as "quid pro quo." To meet with Knicks, Anthony had to agree to meet with Nets, as well, source says.
> 
> 3 minutes ago via TweetDeck
> 
> Source tells @CBSSports that Melo met with NJ as a condition of Denver giving MSG chairman James Dolan permission to meet with him.
> 
> 4 minutes ago via TweetDeck


http://twitter.com/KBerg_CBS


----------



## Ron

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, but then again, not much in this entire circus does.


----------



## roux

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



GrandKenyon6 said:


> It's still up to Denver. They don't have to accept that garbage package from the Knicks. And they shouldn't. The Nets' offer is better.
> 
> If I'm Denver I tell Melo it's either the Nets or us. How much do you really value that extension?
> 
> Melo will value the extension more than the Knicks.


or he just walks in free agency and denver is set way back for the next 5 years,melo has painted denver into a corner.. they need to get what they can and put a smile on their face while getting it


----------



## 29380

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Ron said:


> That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, but then again, not much in this entire circus does.


Pretty much Denver would only let Carmelo meet with Dolan and see how commited he was to getting a deal done if he agree to listen to the Nets proposal.


----------



## Ron

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Knicks4life said:


> Pretty much Denver would only let Carmelo meet with Dolan and see how commited he was to getting a deal done if he agree to listen to the Nets proposal.


It still doesn't make any sense.

I can see it now: 'Melo meets with the Nets for a grand total of 6 seconds.

Denver says to 'Melo: "That wasn't sincere. **** it, we aren't going to let you get your way."

I don't see a trade getting done this weekend.

If I were Denver, I wouldn't trade 'Melo. See how much money means to him. Let him walk away from $65 million over the next three years and $18 million just next year and then let's see what he gets under the new CBA. Who wins that game of chicken?


----------



## GrandKenyon6

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Ron said:


> It still doesn't make any sense.
> 
> I can see it now: 'Melo meets with the Nets for a grand total of 6 seconds.
> 
> Denver says to 'Melo: "That wasn't sincere. **** it, we aren't going to let you get your way."
> 
> I don't see a trade getting done this weekend.
> 
> If I were Denver, I wouldn't trade 'Melo. See how much money means to him. Let him walk away from $65 million over the next three years and $18 million just next year and then let's see what he gets under the new CBA. Who wins that game of chicken?


Exactly. It's hard to imagine Carmelo risking up to 40 million dollars just to play for the Knicks.


----------



## 29380

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Ron said:


> It still doesn't make any sense.
> 
> I can see it now: 'Melo meets with the Nets for a grand total of 6 seconds.
> 
> Denver says to 'Melo: "That wasn't sincere. **** it, we aren't going to let you get your way."
> 
> I don't see a trade getting done this weekend.
> 
> If I were Denver, I wouldn't trade 'Melo. See how much money means to him. Let him walk away from $65 million over the next three years and $18 million just next year and then let's see what he gets under the new CBA. Who wins that game of chicken?


They already meet for 40 min today with the Nets reportedly leaving the meeting not very confident.


----------



## Ron

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Knicks4life said:


> They are already meet for 40 min today with the Nets reportedly leaving the meeting not very confident.


:lol: Shocker!

39:54 more than I predicted but 40 minutes ain't ****.

This whole circus is off the charts.


----------



## JonMatrix

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

This trade proposal of Felton/Gallo/Chandler/Curry/1st rounder for Melo/Billups is awful and it reeks of Isiah Thomas. Walsh is probably shaking his head in disgust somewhere. 

Dolan is the Al Davis of the NBA.


----------



## JonMatrix

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Dre™ said:


> Think about it, you didn't hear Felton's name one time all year in these discussions until the past week, and now all of a sudden he's part of the Knicks' package. Why do you think that is.


hahaha and now 2012 is the next 2010...I guess the Knicks will be starting a new countdown after they gut their team to get Melo.

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/story/14712636/nets-reportedly-back-in-on-melo-after-dolan-jumps-in



> A person with knowledge of the conversations told CBSSports.com on Saturday that Jazz point guard Deron Williams began informing close associates after last season that if Stoudemire wound up in New York, Williams would follow him there as a free agent in 2012. If the Knicks got Anthony with the three-year extension under current rules, it is not clear whether they'd have enough cap space to add a player such as Williams, Chris Paul or Dwight Howard when the trio become unrestricted free agents after next season.


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Too many people pulling different directions. Which means this will all end up in a stand-still by next week. I doubt anything goes down.


----------



## Gx

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Sir Patchwork said:


> Too many people pulling different directions. Which means this will all end up in a stand-still by next week. I doubt anything goes down.


I don't think the Nuggets just sit around and do nothing. They'd rather get as much as they can from NY then end up with nothing at all.


----------



## Floods

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Ron said:


> It still doesn't make any sense.
> 
> I can see it now: 'Melo meets with the Nets for a grand total of 6 seconds.
> 
> Denver says to 'Melo: "That wasn't sincere. **** it, we aren't going to let you get your way."
> 
> I don't see a trade getting done this weekend.
> 
> If I were Denver, I wouldn't trade 'Melo. See how much money means to him. Let him walk away from $65 million over the next three years and $18 million just next year and then let's see what he gets under the new CBA. Who wins that game of chicken?


Well, I don't know. On the surface, yes it's a slam dunk that Anthony would run back to the money, considering the massive paycut in store for him otherwise. But there would be considerable public embarrassment in it for him if he gets owned by the new CBA and goes running back crying to Denver. Not saying he's definitely going to go to NY on his own, but I don't think anything's a lock. Sign and trade's always an option as well.

Plus, even if Anthony does run back to Denver with his tail between his legs, what's stopping him from pulling the same trade demand next season? Sure, the Nuggets could just stiff-arm him since he is under contract, but what do you gain by keeping a pissed off star on a sinking ship like that? The team doesn't go anywhere, Melo didn't want to be there to begin with and is just making things more toxic with time... where's the upside? Denver wins the battle, but the war wouldn't necessarily be over.


----------



## GrandKenyon6

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Carmelo leaving via free agency is an empty threat. He's not going to risk the money. Denver still has all the power. If I'm Denver and I really want to trade with the Knicks, I'm asking for picks, Chandler, Felton, Gallinari, Mozgov, AND Fields.


----------



## Ron

*Report: Nets leave ‘Melo meeting “not confident,” but Knicks have own issues*

*Report: Nets leave ‘Melo meeting “not confident,” but Knicks have own issues*

Pretty good article summing up the problems. Love this part:



> Dolan and Thomas showed the patience and nuance of a five-year-old. Or a sports talk radio caller.


So true.


----------



## GrandKenyon6

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Berger adds that the Nuggets do have their “nuclear option.” They could tell Anthony they will not trade him to the Knicks under any circumstances, he has to agree to a sign and trade with the Nets or stay with the Nuggets. It’s risky for Denver — he could stay, opt out of his deal, become a free agent and sign with the Knicks next summer as a free agent (the scenario that frankly would be best for the Knicks). The Nuggets risk becoming the Cavaliers. But for Anthony to do so would be to give up tens of millions of dollars — we don’t know what a max contract will look like in a new CBA, but you can bet it will be lower than the current one. Less than the three years, $65 million extension on the table.

Exactly. And that is what Denver should do. That is more risky for Carmelo than it is for the Nuggets.


----------



## Ron

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

I agree, if I am Denver I just tell Carmelo to roll the dice.


----------



## MemphisX

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

As the week draws to a close, most sensible people are coming to the conclusion that I had from the start: Melo is no giving up a guaranteed $83 million dollars to play 40 more games in Madison Square Garden every year. 

Dre said it awhile back...Melo just had piss poor timing.


----------



## HB

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

*Isaiah's Back*



> Dolan has overruled Walsh in these trade talks and undermined his authority. Walsh has never wanted to give away Raymond Felton(notes) for an aging Chauncey Billups(notes) and throw Danilo Gallinari(notes) into the package, too. This is all Isiah, all his influence.
> 
> Thomas doesn’t believe Dolan is inclined to give him his job back, but it almost doesn’t matter anymore. In a moment of truth for this Knicks franchise, in the biggest trade they’ve tried to make in years, Isiah Thomas, the coach of Florida International University, has emerged as the de facto GM.
> 
> Eventually, Anthony will likely end up with the Knicks, and Thomas plans to take full credit with Dolan for delivering him. He’s worn out Dolan with the idea that Walsh is too old to recruit the biggest stars to New York, that he can’t connect with them. This is complete nonsense. What sells New York isn’t the GM, but cap space, the Garden and a magnificent teammate and leader like Amar’e Stoudemire(notes). Thomas is forever selling revisionist history and out-and-out lies to an audience of one: Dolan.
> 
> For months, Thomas has privately insisted that Walsh was done with the Knicks this spring. His option must be exercised by April 30 and that still hasn’t happened. Thomas believes it’s never happening, and believes he can install a puppet regime through Dolan to replace Walsh. This way he can eliminate the middleman. “He wants his own guy in that office, someone he can have some control over,” a league source said.
> 
> Thomas had a plan to run the Knicks again, and it failed a year ago: When Dolan pushed Walsh to bring back the disgraced executive as the Knicks general manager, Walsh reacted with the threat of resignation. This was pure lunacy, a plan hatched out of the incompetence of Dolan, out of the deviousness of Thomas.
> 
> The NBA rejected a compromise to let Thomas serve as a Knicks consultant and the coach of FIU. Dolan insisted he would keep conferring with Thomas, and he told the truth. Only now, he listens more to Thomas than he does Walsh.
> 
> Thomas has pushed Dolan to let Walsh’s contract expire on June 30 and hire a new executive to run the Knicks. Thomas plans to furnish Dolan with candidates, a source said. He thinks he can get a candidate hired from the outside, but there will be a brawl inside before that happens.


----------



## Pioneer10

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

James Dolan is exactly why you want an inheritance tax. Has he done anything noteworthy at all in his life except being born to Charles Dolan? What a douchebag and there is no way Cablevision can get rid of him as he's the son of the chairman


----------



## Tragedy

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Pioneer10 said:


> James Dolan is exactly why you want an inheritance tax. Has he done anything noteworthy at all in his life except being born to Charles Dolan? What a douchebag and there is no way Cablevision can get rid of him as he's the son of the chairman


Lol. Man this guy is screwing my team man. Straight into bolivion.


----------



## Ron

*Reports have Nuggets, Knicks haggling over Mozgov, ‘Melo trade details*

*Reports have Nuggets, Knicks haggling over Mozgov, ‘Melo trade details*

So if this deal actually happens, the Knicks are going to front a team of Stoudemire, Anthony, an aging Bilups, and two dining room chairs?

I hope the Knicks can average 141 points a night, because they sure as hell are going to give up 140.

Worst. Defensive. Team. Ever.

If it happens.


----------



## Dissonance

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



> The New York Knicks have made what they consider their final offer for Carmelo Anthonyand are awaiting an answer from the Denver Nuggets as to whether they’ll land the All-Star forward, a source with knowledge of the talks told Yahoo! Sports.
> 
> The proposal, which was first reported by CBS Sports, will send Danilo Gallinari, Raymond Felton, Wilson Chandler and the Knicks’ 2014 first-round pick to Denver. The Knicks would also trade Anthony Randolph and Eddy Curry’s expiring contract to the Minnesota Timberwolves, who would send Corey Brewer to the Nuggets. The Knicks would receive Anthony, Chauncey Billups, Shelden Williams and Renaldo Balkman.
> 
> The Knicks aren’t willing to include center Timofey Mozgov(notes) in the deal, the source said.
> 
> The Nuggets continue to measure the Knicks’ revised offer against the New Jersey Nets’ bid, which is built around rookie forward Derrick Favor and four first-round draft picks, said a source involved in the talks. Keeping Anthony no longer appears to be an option, the source said.
> 
> Anthony has told confidants throughout All-Star weekend he’s hopeful he’ll be traded to the Knicks, but thinks the talks could drag to Thursday’s 3 p.m. ET deadline. He met with Nets owner Mikhail Prokhorov and other team officials on Saturday, but has given no indication of wanting to sign the three-year, $65 million extension with New Jersey.


http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=mc-anthonyknicks022011


----------



## futuristxen

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



MemphisX said:


> As the week draws to a close, most sensible people are coming to the conclusion that I had from the start: Melo is no giving up a guaranteed $83 million dollars to play 40 more games in Madison Square Garden every year.
> 
> Dre said it awhile back...Melo just had piss poor timing.


Lebron and Bosh both ended up taking less money to play where they want. So I wouldn't rule it out. Players have all the power right now(which is good). Melo will take his paycut in New York with all of the extra off the court attention and money it will bring him. He's played most of his career in the shadows of Kobe and Lebron. If he is playing in New York he'll be an equal with them by having the backing of biggest sports media arm in the country.

Plus it helps his wife's career as well, which could also help make up the difference.

If I'm Melo I know what I want to, ball is in Denver's court. They can either get something for me, or not. Doesn't matter much to me. My mind is made up.


----------



## futuristxen

*Re: Reports have Nuggets, Knicks haggling over Mozgov, ‘Melo trade details*



Ron said:


> *Reports have Nuggets, Knicks haggling over Mozgov, ‘Melo trade details*
> 
> So if this deal actually happens, the Knicks are going to front a team of Stoudemire, Anthony, an aging Bilups, and two dining room chairs?
> 
> I hope the Knicks can average 141 points a night, because they sure as hell are going to give up 140.
> 
> Worst. Defensive. Team. Ever.
> 
> If it happens.


I would rather teams I don't care about be entertaining than annoying. So I'm all for it. Incidentally, I would assume they'll next turn and go after Deron Williams or CP3 to replace Felton long term.


----------



## JonMatrix

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Just saw it on ESPN, Chris Broussard is now saying that the Nuggets are gonna flip some of these players they're getting from the Knicks to the Nets in a seperate trade afterward. Apparently the Nuggets want Mozgov added to the trade proposal now too. Is there a rule against collusion in the NBA? If Dolan weren't such a jackass, I think Stern would look into it (assuming Denver does flip some of these players from NY to the Nets)

Even if the Knicks get Melo, they'll throw him out there with Amare and a 35 year old Billups. Are they gonna play these guys 48 minutes a game or what? I mean Turiaf, Roger Mason, and Azabuike would be left over and could be rotation players, but they aren't starters on any team. Bill Walker could end up being a good player some day, but he's not very good right now. I don't really think getting Carmelo Anthony is worth giving up half of your roster. Out of all the players NY would lose, Felton would actually hurt worse than losing Chandler,Gallo, or Mozgov.


----------



## Tom

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Hey if you are going to languish in mediocrity for a while at least fill in some seats. They aren't going anywhere with this team...they could sign Melo and get the same amount of wins but get many more fans.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



JonMatrix said:


> Just saw it on ESPN, Chris Broussard is now saying that the Nuggets are gonna flip some of these players they're getting from the Knicks to the Nets in a seperate trade afterward. Apparently the Nuggets want Mozgov added to the trade proposal now too. Is there a rule against collusion in the NBA? If Dolan weren't such a jackass, I think Stern would look into it (assuming Denver does flip some of these players from NY to the Nets)
> 
> Even if the Knicks get Melo, they'll throw him out there with Amare and a 35 year old Billups. Are they gonna play these guys 48 minutes a game or what? I mean Turiaf, Roger Mason, and Azabuike would be left over and could be rotation players, but they aren't starters on any team. Bill Walker could end up being a good player some day, but he's not very good right now. I don't really think getting Carmelo Anthony is worth giving up half of your roster. Out of all the players NY would lose, Felton would actually hurt worse than losing Chandler,Gallo, or Mozgov.


Could just end up being viewed as a 3 way trade instead of collusion.


----------



## JonMatrix

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



R-Star said:


> Could just end up being viewed as a 3 way trade instead of collusion.


Well it is Dolan/Isiah Thomas supposedly calling the shots here, so I could see them willingly trading good, young talent to a division rival.

The success of this trade in the short term(besides the obvious- Carmelo signing the extension) depends on how well Billups can run this offense. Because if he breaks down (he will be playing 40+ a night), they don't/won't have another PG capable of getting Melo/Amare the ball.


----------



## GrandKenyon6

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

This would be a good move for the Nets if they lose out on Melo.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Losing Felton wouldn't be a big deal even if they had to limit Billups' minutes, Toney Douglas is a competent combo guard they can slot into the starting lineup in an emergency. I mean, if you have Carmelo and Amare on your team, you don't really want a point guard who's going to dominate the ball anyway. Teams aren't built around role players, and Felton's never going to be a top five guy at his position. If Felton and third scorer/sixth man types are what it takes to get Carmelo, so be it.


----------



## 29380

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



> Y! Sports: Nugs asked for inclusion of Mosgov in NYK deal Saturday. NYK could get Melo now by putting rookie in, but has declined for now.


http://twitter.com/spearsnbayahoo


----------



## sMaK

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

NYK should just do it already, are they really giving up too much?? The guy is a stud and they're giving up a bunch of role players who have helped them to a .500 record.


----------



## Ron

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Mozgov is the deal killer right now. NYK doesn't want to give him up.

A perfect example of Denver getting too greedy again. They deserve what they are going to end up getting for 'Melo if they continue to **** around with this until Thursday: absolutely nothing.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Ron said:


> Mozgov is the deal killer right now.


......and it's Denver that's acting irrationally? Think about that: Mozgov is a deal-breaker in a Carmelo Anthony trade.


----------



## Dissonance

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

I don't know if I buy any of that. Denver's just stalling now.


----------



## Ron

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Dissonance said:


> I don't know if I buy any of that. Denver's just stalling now.


Stalling for what?

Today is Monday. The trade deadline is Thursday.

Not much time left for stalling, if you ask me.


----------



## Dissonance

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Ron said:


> Stalling for what?
> 
> Today is Monday. The trade deadline is Thursday.
> 
> Not much time left for stalling, if you ask me.


They could've done this at anytime for months. They've been waiting whether to include other pieces like Felton or Gallo or Melo changing his mind and wanting to go to Nets. I highly doubt Mozgov is suddenly who they want, or a deal breaker. They want to take it as close to the deadline as they can.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Nuggets prediction after Melo is traded to Knicks and Gallo/Mozgov to Nets*

New Nuggets:

Felton, Chandler, Griz protected first round, Lakers protected first round, Rockets protected first round.

Win Predictions:

10-11 (45 wins)

11-12(30 wins)

12-13 (25 wins)

13-14 (20 wins)

14-15 (30 wins)


----------



## Tragedy

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Bogg said:


> ......and it's Denver that's acting irrationally? Think about that: Mozgov is a deal-breaker in a Carmelo Anthony trade.


It's not that mozgov himself is a deal killer, it's that the nuggets obviously ask for more constantly. If they agree to mozgov then the nuggets will say, 'how about mozgov and fields'

They keep moving the goal posts.


----------



## c_dog

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

nuggets are horribly unprofessional in these trade talks.. basically every time they come to an agreement they get greedy and ask for a little more.. you expect nothing less from a rookie gm.. what a joke.

nobody's gonna want to do business with them if the melo trade falls through.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

This will get done, the Nuggets are doing the right thing because the Knicks are thirsty and they could be scared of the Nets, scared enough to squeeze Mozgov in there too. There's nothing to lose with 72 hours left.

I think the Nuggets will make their decision tonight, play around with both teams tomorrow, but trade him to New York Thursday.


----------



## 29380

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Carmelo Anthony trade to the Knicks appears imminent



> The Carmelo Anthony trade saga is nearly over.
> 
> Indications are that a trade is imminent with the New York Knicks, with only minor details to be worked out before an agreement is reached, a league source said.
> 
> Anthony was not at the Nuggets' practice as they resumed workouts following the All-Star break.
> 
> Also, the New York Times quoted a source close to Anthony's agent, Leon Rose, as saying: "We're about to dot the i's and cross the t's."





> SpearsNBAYahoo: Melo is close to being dealt to Knicks, possibly tonight, a source tells Y! Sports.


http://twitter.com/spearsnbayahoo



> WojYahooNBA As NY-Den push closer to finalizing Melo trade, NJ considers several deals and Portland option "isn't even in the lead," source says.


http://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA



> FisolaNYDN: Breaking: source tells Daily News a Knicks-Nuggets deal will include Timofey Mozgov. "It's not done yet," source adds


http://twitter.com/FisolaNYDN


----------



## Spaceman Spiff

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Seriously..... we're talking about Mosgov as if he's prime Tim ****ing Duncan. He's a ****ing scrub, as Kobe said in 07.... ship his ass out!!! Top 10 player and the holdup is a guy who isn't even top 30 at his position.


----------



## 29380

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



> The Carmelo Anthony trade saga is finally over.
> 
> The Nuggets traded Melo to the New York Knicks tonight, a league source said. Denver gets Wilson Chandler, Raymond Felton, Danilo Gallinari, Timofey Mozgov, the Knicks 2014 first-round draft pick, the Warriors' 2012 second-round pick, the Warriors' 2013 second-round pick and $3 million in cash.
> 
> Anthony will go to New York, along with Chauncey Billups, Shelden Williams, Anthony Carter and Renaldo Balkman.
> 
> Anthony was not at the Nuggets' practice as the team resumed workouts following the All-Star break


http://www.denverpost.com/nuggets/ci_17443219

It's over


----------



## myst

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



> @STEIN_LINE_HQ RT @nuggetsnews: TRADE official, source told Denver Post. Melo to Knicks http://bit.ly/46ffVg 6 minutes ago


People should hate Melo equally if not more then Lebron IMO, he has done this whole trade debacle terribly.


----------



## MemphisX

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



c_dog said:


> *nuggets are horribly unprofessional in these trade talks*.. basically every time they come to an agreement they get greedy and ask for a little more.. you expect nothing less from a rookie gm.. what a joke.
> 
> nobody's gonna want to do business with them if the melo trade falls through.


LMAO...yeah because just because it was reported it must be true.


----------



## simply_amazing

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*

Wow, that's big. This should propel the knicks all the way to 42 wins this season!



Knicks4life said:


> http://www.denverpost.com/nuggets/ci_17443219
> 
> It's over


----------



## Diable

Seems to me that the knicks are worse in the short term, or at least they won't be any better. If they moved up in the seedings it'd be because Orlando or Atl came back to them.


----------



## Ben

A trade where one team gets worse, but the other team doesn't exactly get better.


----------



## MemphisX

If I am the Nuggets, I try to flip every player except Gallinari. No way I would want to pay Chandler this summer.


----------



## CosaNostra

Knicks should be pretty decent.

Amare/Sheldon
Randolph/Turiaf/Williams
Melo/Balkman/Azubuike
Fields/Mason
Billups/Douglas/Carter


----------



## MemphisX

Diable said:


> Seems to me that the knicks are worse in the short term, or at least they won't be any better. If they moved up in the seedings it'd be because Orlando or Atl came back to them.


Not picking on you but I think in all the hype of the Melo trade talks, people forgot the Knicks were 12-17 over their last 29. This team rode the Amare hype for awhile and was crashing very hard.


----------



## Juggernaut

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



myst said:


> People should hate Melo equally if not more then Lebron IMO, he has done this whole trade debacle terribly.


What the hell has he done? Seriously? Blame the Nuggets if anyone.

Where's BS now? I want to see him admit he was wrong, I've been reading his chicken scratch for more than a month now how the Knicks wouldn't let this deal happen.


----------



## Dissonance

CosaNostra said:


> Knicks should be pretty decent.
> 
> Amare/Sheldon
> Randolph/Turiaf/Williams
> Melo/Balkman/Azubuike
> Fields/Mason
> Billups/Douglas/Carter


Randolph is going to Minnesota with Curry.


----------



## CosaNostra

Dissonance said:


> Randolph is going to Minnesota with Curry.


Are you sure? That's what I thought, but the ESPN story doesn't say anything about it.


----------



## Sir Patchwork

Well, time for the Knicks to become the team everybody has yearned for since the Ewing days. Two superstars. They're going to have problems at first, because their games overlap much like LeBron and Wade. They both score and don't do much else. 

If any coach can make it work, it's D'Antoni.


----------



## HKF

If nothing else, seeing the East in the playoffs this year will be a whole lot of fun. If D'Antoni can't win with Billups, Melo and Amare, there's no hope for the guy.


----------



## Ben

CosaNostra said:


> Are you sure? That's what I thought, but the ESPN story doesn't say anything about it.


http://www.denverpost.com/nuggets/ci_17443219



> A source said the Knicks will send Anthony Randolph and Eddy Curry to Minnesota as part of the deal.


----------



## Dissonance

*Re: Melo traded to Knicks*



CosaNostra said:


> Are you sure? That's what I thought, but the ESPN story doesn't say anything about it.





> Y! Sports: NY: Melo, CB, Balkman, Williams, Carter; DEN: Gallo, Mosgov, Felton, Chandler, '14 NY 1st & 2 2nds; Minn: Randolph and Curry.


SpearsNBAYahoo


----------



## Dre

This isn't a deal for this year, Carmelo isn't 37, he's 27 (?). This had to get done and it did. Nets move on to the next star to be out there. If both Paul and Williams become FAs they'll probably get one of them..at least you'd hope so. 

And don't try to pin it on Mosgov, because two weeks ago it was about Fields. The Nuggets kept adding pieces..if this was a week more they could've asked for one more guy and you're like "you're stalling it over him?" instead of looking at how much the Nuggets actually carved out of the Knicks' roster. And no, it's not necessarily about the quality as much as the quantity.

And what happens after this is Walsh refrains from re-signing and goes back to Indiana possibly, then Isiah comes back or gets a toy soldier hired and continues to control personnel decisions. 

This is way more than Walsh would've given up, and at this point he probably told Dolan if that's what you want to do fine, but then I have to leave.

He cleaned off the Knicks' books and put them in good position to make this move, and now Isiah will get his 2nd chance.


----------



## Sir Patchwork

Who will start next to Amare?


----------



## MemphisX

HKF said:


> If nothing else, seeing the East in the playoffs this year will be a whole lot of fun. If D'Antoni can't win with Billups, Melo and Amare, there's no hope for the guy.



Win what? They are not better than Boston, Miami, Chicago, Orlando and maybe Atlanta.


----------



## Sir Patchwork

Any chance D'Antoni tries to start Melo at the 4 and Amare at the 5?


----------



## Ron

HKF said:


> If nothing else, seeing the East in the playoffs this year will be a whole lot of fun. If D'Antoni can't win with Billups, Melo and Amare, there's no hope for the guy.


Absolutely no defense.

They are going to get hammered.


----------



## CosaNostra

*Re: Melo traded to Knicks*



ßen said:


> http://www.denverpost.com/nuggets/ci_17443219





Dissonance said:


> SpearsNBAYahoo


hmm... well, their frontcourt is abysmal. But two legit 25 PPG scorers is nothing to sniff at.


----------



## thaKEAF

:yep: Will be fun in 2k11.


----------



## Ben

Ron said:


> Absolutely no defense.
> 
> They are going to get hammered.


What's the old quote? Offense sells tickets, defense wins championships?


----------



## Dre

MemphisX said:


> Win what? They are not better than Boston, Miami, Chicago, Orlando and maybe Atlanta.


HKF doesn't gloss past people who've made an all-star team on rosters I think


----------



## Dissonance

Knicks still need Paul, Williams or Howard.


----------



## Dre

Knicks will probably get Paul, and at that point it gets interesting, because Wade will probably not still be top tier..but then Amare won't be where he is either in two years. Knicks-Heat is back either way..except nobodies going to be grabbing anyone's leg in the middle of a fight


----------



## Vuchato

Knicks probably won't have the cap space for another max


----------



## Dissonance

Vuchato said:


> Knicks probably won't have the cap space for another max


Whomever should be cheaper with new CBA.


----------



## Dre

They'll work it out. They'll have Paul or Williams most likely.


----------



## jmk

Dissonance said:


> Whomever should be cheaper with new CBA.


Melo and Amare are still gonna be taking up $40M+, though.


----------



## FSH

I bet Danilo is pissed because im betting his actress gf doesnt follow him to Denver


----------



## MemphisX

The Knicks-Minnesota portion could generate a substantial trade exception for the Knicks.


----------



## sMaK

I wonder what Billups is thinking. I remember hearing he wanted to be bought out if traded to NY or NJ. I'm not sure Knicks make this move if true though. Toney Douglass running the point would be a terrible thing for them.


----------



## FSH

Any word on if the Nets 4 1st for Felton Danilo and Chandler is gonna happen now?


----------



## Dre

sMaK said:


> I wonder what Billups is thinking. I remember hearing he wanted to be bought out if traded to NY or NJ. I'm not sure Knicks make this move if true though. Toney Douglass running the point would be a terrible thing for them.


Billups will be fine in New York. I don't understand why people are intimating he doesn't want to be in New York.


----------



## PistonHonda

Sir Patchwork said:


> Well, time for the Knicks to become the team everybody has yearned for since the Ewing days. Two superstars. They're going to have problems at first, because their games overlap much like LeBron and Wade. *They both score and don't do much else. *


Pretty much why I don't see them working it out like LeBron and Wade have. 

They will be better, but not the sum of parts, and definitely not a serious contentor.


----------



## Floods

MemphisX said:


> If I am the Nuggets, I try to flip every player except Gallinari. No way I would want to pay Chandler this summer.


Lol, Gallinari's trash. I'd rather pay Chandler (ideally neither).


----------



## Sir Patchwork

FSH said:


> Any word on if the Nets 4 1st for Felton Danilo and Chandler is gonna happen now?


There is talk of Felton and Moz getting flipped immediatley. 

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/211224/Harris_Could_Return_To_Dallas_In_Three_Way_With_Nuggets

Don't know about Danilo.


----------



## Sir Patchwork

PistonHonda said:


> Pretty much why I don't see them working it out like LeBron and Wade have.
> 
> They will be better, but not the sum of parts, and definitely not a serious contentor.


Of all the superstars in the league, I think Carmelo and Amare are at the bottom in terms of basketball IQ. Neither really play smart basketball. They're just raw scorers. D'Antoni has his hands full.


----------



## Dre

Harris *and* Kidd :raised_ey

Hindsight would blow up


----------



## Dissonance

Shamless self-promotion; anyone interested in Knicks in KVBL sim league. Amare and Melo are already on them. You will have to max out Melo though, he is a FA.


----------



## Bubbles

Dissonance said:


> Shamless self-promotion; anyone interested in Knicks in KVBL sim league. Amare and Melo are already on them. You will have to max out Melo though, he is a FA.


:laugh:


----------



## MemphisX

Dissonance said:


> Shamless self-promotion; anyone interested in Knicks in KVBL sim league. Amare and Melo are already on them. You will have to max out Melo though, he is a FA.





:clown:


----------



## Dre

:yep: 

I'm responsible for both moves


----------



## HKF

Well to me, if you have two All-NBA players on the roster, I expect them to at least be contenders in 2011-12 or 2012-13.


----------



## ATLien

Wait..you mean Shelden Williams is still in the league? What the hell


----------



## Dre

Oh ok, I thought you were referring to this year


----------



## Ron

Sir Patchwork said:


> Of all the superstars in the league, I think Carmelo and Amare are at the bottom in terms of basketball IQ.


Then the Lakers should send Shannon Brown there. He would fit in perfectly.


----------



## MemphisX

Corey Brewer going to the Knicks.


----------



## roux

i hate this trade.. i hate the direction the nba is going with all the stars buddying up to one another.. if deron williams or chris paul signs with the knicks i wont watch the non bucks nba for a full year


----------



## Juggernaut

Dissonance said:


> Shamless self-promotion; anyone interested in Knicks in KVBL sim league. Amare and Melo are already on them. You will have to max out Melo though, he is a FA.






Dre™ said:


> :yep:
> 
> I'm responsible for both moves


Don't get over yourself. I'm the one who got Amar'e to NYC. 

:starwars:


----------



## Floods

roux2dope said:


> i hate this trade.. i hate the direction the nba is going with all the stars buddying up to one another.. if deron williams or chris paul signs with the knicks i wont watch the non bucks nba for a full year


Something tells me you wouldn't be too broken up about it if said stars were buddying up in Milwaukee.


----------



## Dre

Juggernaut said:


> Don't get over yourself. I'm the one who got Amar'e to NYC.


I won't. I'm the one who traded him there :raised_ey


----------



## Sir Patchwork

So what are the roles for Carmelo and Amare? Are they option 1a and 1b? Does Amare take a backseat to Carmelo?


----------



## roux

Floods said:


> Something tells me you wouldn't be too broken up about it if said stars were buddying up in Milwaukee.


you're right.. and thats the problem.. i live in a small market.. and follow a small market team.. it will never ever happen.. and it will never happen in minnesota, new orleans, denver, charlotte, indiana, cleveland.. this is great for some fans.. and gut wrenching to others.. they may as well do what lebron said and just get rid of teams.. its disgusting, and the worst thing is the players are flaunting it.. call me bitter i dont care.. i think its bad for the league


----------



## Luke

San Antonio was a cute exception. It's nice to see a small market team win every once in a while.


----------



## CosaNostra

I wonder what number Carmelo will wear with the Knicks?


----------



## thaKEAF

:clown: what if we traded mayo to the knicks


----------



## Rather Unique

****in Diable man, it became Djangofest '11 up in this bitch. I'm gonna be having nightmares with this guys face in em. smh.


----------



## thaKEAF

:yep: he wants your soul


----------



## sMaK

Are the Nuggets gonna go on a fire sale now? They have a lot of guys teams would love to add.


----------



## sMaK

Rather Unique said:


> ****in Diable man, it became Djangofest '11 up in this bitch. I'm gonna be having nightmares with this guys face in em. smh.


This post matches your avatar


----------



## Dissonance

Rather Unique said:


> ****in Diable man, it became Djangofest '11 up in this bitch. I'm gonna be having nightmares with this guys face in em. smh.


----------



## Luke

Lol I didn't even notice that the trade went down, I was just kind of posting for the sake of posting. This shakes things up a little bit, what was the point of the Felton/Billups swap though? Does this leave from for Paul/Williams down the road or something?


----------



## Floods

roux2dope said:


> you're right.. and thats the problem.. i live in a small market.. and follow a small market team.. it will never ever happen.. and it will never happen in minnesota, new orleans, denver, charlotte, indiana, cleveland.. this is great for some fans.. and gut wrenching to others.. they may as well do what lebron said and just get rid of teams.. its disgusting, and the worst thing is the players are flaunting it.. call me bitter i dont care.. i think its bad for the league


The players want to win more than anything. The small market teams aren't automatically ****ed.


----------



## Juggernaut

VanillaPrice said:


> Lol I didn't even notice that the trade went down, I was just kind of posting for the sake of posting. This shakes things up a little bit, what was the point of the Felton/Billups swap though? Does this leave from for Paul/Williams down the road or something?


That's exactly what it means. Hopefully we have the cap for Williams or Paul.


----------



## Dre

This is America...the U.S.A..turn on your TV...don't be surprised now...


----------



## Dissonance

roux2dope said:


> you're right.. and thats the problem.. i live in a small market.. and follow a small market team.. it will never ever happen.. and it will never happen in minnesota, new orleans, denver, charlotte, indiana, cleveland.. this is great for some fans.. and gut wrenching to others.. they may as well do what lebron said and just get rid of teams.. its disgusting, and the worst thing is the players are flaunting it.. call me bitter i dont care.. i think its bad for the league


Besides being a better, more entertaining game, that's why the NFL is king.


----------



## Luke

But is the possible lockout/contract situation going to put a dent into that plan?

I'm happy for New York though. They've been so bad for such a long time that they deserve this in a weird kind of way. Not seeing how Amar'e and 'Melo can mesh but it will be entertaining regardless.


----------



## Luke

Dissonance said:


> Besides being a better, more entertaining game, that's why the NFL is king.


I don't see the point in lying on the internet. I mean, who does that?

NFL is nice, but it's all about the NBA. And as we all know, the MLB sucks.


----------



## Dissonance

VanillaPrice said:


> I don't see the point in lying on the internet. I mean, who does that?
> 
> *NFL is nice, but it's all about the NBA*. And as we all know, the MLB sucks.


:hano:


----------



## Dre

VanillaPrice said:


> I don't see the point in lying on the internet. I mean, who does that?
> 
> NFL is nice, but it's all about the NBA. And as we all know, the MLB sucks.


Is my sarcasm detector broken tonight


----------



## Luke

Dre™ said:


> This is America...the U.S.A..turn on your TV...don't be surprised now...


Hey, I don't need your attitude. Granted, I feel pretty dumb considering I posted in here twice with the "New York!" added to the title. Oh well, I'm blaming it on me being tired.


----------



## Floods

VanillaPrice said:


> I don't see the point in lying on the internet. I mean, who does that?
> 
> NFL is nice, but it's all about the NBA. And as we all know, the MLB sucks.


Your preference. I prefer the NBA as well, but you can't argue that the NFL is by far the most successful of the four major pro sports.


----------



## Luke

Dre™;6496822 said:


> Is my sarcasm detector broken tonight


First line? Yes.

Second line? No. it's goes - 

NBA
NFL



MLB

Edit: I'm talking about personal preference. I like the NBA more than I like the NFL, I don't actually think that the NBA is the more popular franchise.


----------



## Luke

Floods said:


> Your preference. I prefer the NBA as well, but you can't argue that the NFL is by far the most successful of the four major pro sports.


I mean duh. Everyone loves the NFL and I have to search to find even a casual basketball fan, let alone an NBA fan. Doesn't change the fact that I like one league over the other. I prefer the NBA but am aware that the NFL is much more popular and far more successful.


----------



## ATLien

Basketball/football/baseball is all just personal preference, but in the NFL & MLB it is easier for small market teams to compete for a championship IMO.


----------



## Dre

I love basketball by far, and in fact I kind of resent football for being so far ahead..but it's really no question, despite what any one person thinks, football is by far king in America.


----------



## Floods

I prefer having a handful of titanic teams duking it out for the title each year. You guarantee some truly excellent play come playoff time. I hate how teams in MLB and NFL teams can randomly break mediocrity for one season, win it all, and then go back to sucking the next year and going forward, without ever altering the team very much. Cinderella teams piss me off.


----------



## Dre

Yeah, end of the day, what will count and be remembered are the playoffs, which are sure to be nuts over the next 3-5 years. Noone gives a damn about the regular seasons of the 90s or the 00s. Noone really cares about the playoffs as much as the classic series' that made them.


----------



## thaKEAF

Cinderellas make it more interesting to me.


----------



## Luke

Dre™ said:


> I love basketball by far, and in fact I kind of resent football for being so far ahead..but it's really no question, despite what any one person thinks, football is by far king in America.


Pretty much how I feel.


----------



## thaKEAF

lets get this back on topic though


----------



## Floods

So what number is Melo wearing?

I predict #8.


----------



## Luke

Where do people see the Knicks now in the east? Jumping up to the Chicago/Orlando/Atlanta tier? All the way to the Boston/Maimi tier? Imploding? What says you


----------



## Floods

They're a better team than Atlanta but standings-wise, this year, who knows.


----------



## thaKEAF

I see them in the middle of the pack. I would love for them to end up playing Miami in the first round, that would be some entertaining ****.


----------



## Dre

They're 3rd tier in the East. A strong 6 or whatever for now. Don't have enough supplemental pieces in key places to win a ton of games that matter.


----------



## ATLien

Nah. They are ahead of Atlanta, but behind the rest.


----------



## Dre

So I'm saying, can the people (like me :2ti who've been saying New York throughout this entire process get some props.


----------



## Floods

Nope.


----------



## Bogg

VanillaPrice said:


> Where do people see the Knicks now in the east? Jumping up to the Chicago/Orlando/Atlanta tier? All the way to the Boston/Maimi tier? Imploding? What says you


Assuming they can add a mediocre shooting guard before the playoffs, and Noah and Boozer are healthy together, Chicago's in that top tier. New York should settle into the second tier with Orlando and Atlanta, maybe be the class of that tier, assuming they can get halfway competent backup minutes from Shelden Williams or whoever they pick up out of the D-league/off waivers.


----------



## Dre

Chicago is not with the Celtics or Heat.


----------



## c_dog

i don't see amare+melo working with a supporting cast like this. and not under d'antoni's system. there's not enough shooters and not enough athleticism outside of the 2 star players. landry fields and shawne williams have some major shoes to fill.


----------



## Sleepepro

It's Heat and Celtics at the top. Followed by Orlando, Chicago, and NY with Atlanta right on their tail.


----------



## Pioneer10

I bet they overpay for Perkins next year. He doesn't fit D'Antonio's philosophy but they're going to need a defensive center badly with Amare and Melo at the forward spots. At least Brewer is a decent defender at the 2 for them


----------



## JonMatrix

D'Antoni's system is about outrunning everybody and when you do end up in a half-court set, it's pick and roll time. Melo is an isolation scorer who stops the ball at times. There's gonna be an adjustment period for this team to gel. They will have to develop a new rotation, develop chemistry, etc. 

In the short term I think they'll stay a 6 seed. ESPN is asking who the favorites in the East are, which means that they'll be preaching that the move was a failure when they get off to a slow start together and stay a 6 this year.

There used to be a small group of people on the Knicks board that loved Renaldo Balkman, so they should be happy that he's back. He's a scrappy hustle guy, if nothing else.


----------



## futuristxen

The tiers I see right now out east:
Boston
Miami

Chicago

New York
Orlando
Atlanta

The rest.

So the Knicks did all of that to probably move up one spot in the standings this year. Which could mean a second round appearance to be honest. And then Knicks-Celtics in the second round if they get through, which would be fun.

Where things get interesting is of all of these teams, atlanta, orlando, and Boston all have windows closing in the next two years. If the Knicks upgrade Billups to Deron or CP3 in that span, they're set up to be the primary rival for the Heat with the Bulls. Heat-Knicks-Bulls...it will be like the late 90s all over again!


----------



## Dre

Dwight Howard means the Magic are still better than the Knicks I think. 

People will make the players the Knicks traded out to be bit players, but collectively they were all playing out of their mind, and like Memphis has said in here they were still slumping. 

Do they do a 180 because you consolidated those pieces into Carmelo? I don't know...honestly I don't think so. It will take an offseason for them to be anything close to worth talking about besides just the appeal of Carmelo and Amare.

I think the most important angle to watch for the rest of the season is where Walsh (and Isiah Thomas) stand after this.


----------



## Tragedy

The Knicks did well collectively, Dre.

But, whenever Amare sat on the bench the Knicks absolutely suffered. It was feast or famine for a guy like Danilo who depended on his shot. Wilson Chandler is better at scoring in other ways, but you don't turn down an opportunity to have Melo to keep Gallinari and Chandler. They don't immediately get insanely better this season, just a little better.

It's going to be the moves to round out the roster where the Knicks really show how they won this trade.


----------



## MemphisX

I like how people are doubting the Knicks getting a supporting cast. They can buy draft picks and they draft well. Heck, most of their role players were easily acquired by them (Chandler, Fields, Felton, Mozgov). They still have almost $5 million in expiring contracts left on their roster they can use to get another piece.


----------



## chapi

I actually don't think they got alot better. They are basicly the same quality as before but without chemistry


----------



## eddymac

Once you have Amar'e and Carmelo its easy to build around them just add shooters and competent big men and you're set


----------



## Ron

eddymac said:


> Once you have Amar'e and Carmelo its easy to build around them just add shooters and competent big men and you're set


LOL, set for what? :laugh:


----------



## Da Grinch

MemphisX said:


> I like how people are doubting the Knicks getting a supporting cast. They can buy draft picks and they draft well. Heck, most of their role players were easily acquired by them (Chandler, Fields, Felton, Mozgov). They still have almost $5 million in expiring contracts left on their roster they can use to get another piece.


thats how it always is , when the celts traded away their depth for kg and ray allen people asked the same way they did with the heat this past offseason.

it shouldn't be hard but it may take an offseason to do it though...they mostly need a decent center though, they have depth elsewhere.


----------



## hroz

??????
Stoudemire/Turiaf
Anthony/Brewer
Fields
Billups/Douglas

Its all about getting a defensive centre for a year and a half.


----------



## chapi

Brewer is nice addition, but at this point Felton is better player than billups. And i think that Galo and Chandler work better with Amare than Melo. Amare and Melo are basicaly the same player.


----------



## Juggernaut

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Ballscientist said:


> *Knicks have no chance to get Melo if Knicks really can't find a centerpiece with long term contract from the third team.*
> Example of centerpiece with long term contracts: Tony Parker and Aldridge.
> 
> Help to dump Al Harrington contract to third team is also important.


:lol: 

What a smart scientist you are...

:lol:


----------



## Tragedy

hroz said:


> ??????
> Stoudemire/Turiaf
> Anthony/Brewer
> Fields
> Billups/Douglas
> 
> Its all about getting a defensive centre for a year and a half.


Knocks probably offer Earl Barron a contract. He played well last season. I'd make him the center for the next year and a half, but keep it a very short contract to keep him playing hard. 

Don't forget Shawne Williams. He'll get some time. Bill Walker too. 

The Knicks are two pieces away from Contending. A starting quality center and a long term pass first point guard.


----------



## Tragedy

chapi said:


> Brewer is nice addition, but at this point Felton is better player than billups. And i think that Galo and Chandler work better with Amare than Melo. Amare and Melo are basicaly the same player.


He's not better on the sense that you pass up a player like Carmelo. 

Gallinari and Chandler. Man. Watch old Knicks games when Amare goes to the bench. The team falls apart. 

And there's another team who have 'redundant' players. They're called the Heat. Not saying they're the level of Lebron and Wade, but give me two elite players and I'd rather figure out how to play them over having one elite and two decent players. 

And if Chandler worked well with Amare how can't Melo work well with Amare when Melo is pretty much a way better version of Chandler.


----------



## c_dog

i feel like too many teams of trying to mimic what the celtics and lakers did a few years ago.. i think it's ridiculous that these youngsters are basically calling it quits so soon. where's the competitiveness? ray allen, KG, gasol did not demand to be traded to the celtics or lakers on their own. the teams were basically put together out of coincidence. it just so happened the sonics wanted to rebuild around durant and so gave away allen to the celtics. KG then went to the celtics for a chance to contend. Gasol went to the lakers cuz the grizzlies wanted him gone and lakers needed a big. they did not spend months trying to come up with a plan like these drama queen's of the class of 2003. it's always nice to see some powerhouse teams in the league but not like this.

i do feel the knicks are going to disappoint anyway. sorry you are not the celtics or lakers. you are not even the heat whose chemistry is one notch below the class of the league. knicks are a 3rd tier team.


----------



## mvP to the Wee

Dre™ said:


> Chicago is not with the Celtics or Heat.


2 games behind Boston and Miami while missing either Boozer or Noah all season and we're not on the same tier? Paul Pierce even said that the Bulls are the team the Celtics don't want to face in the playoffs(I'm paraphrasing cause my version makes it sound like he's scared of the Bulls)


----------



## mvP to the Wee

Also the Knicks will NOT get CP3 or Williams. With Balkman, Anthony, Stoudemire and cap holds accounting for a little more than $45 million, they would have under $13 million for the 1st year for either of those guys when they can be making $18 million. Over a 6 year deal, they'd be giving up close to $40 million and endorsements won't make that up. The rest of the team would also be minimum salaries.


----------



## Basel

Knicks are going to be a lot more fun to watch. Still a ways away from being a championship contender, though, in my opinion.


----------



## c_dog

P to the Wee said:


> 2 games behind Boston and Miami while missing either Boozer or Noah all season and we're not on the same tier? Paul Pierce even said that the Bulls are the team the Celtics don't want to face in the playoffs(I'm paraphrasing cause my version makes it sound like he's scared of the Bulls)


regular season wins are not equivalent to what they are come playoff time. i have them as tier 2 contenders ahead of new york, but clearly a level below boston and lakers. boston looked nothing like a contender in the regular season last year but destroyed every team they faced in the eastern conference. none of the teams put up much resistance, and favorites like magic and cavs were clearly outmatched. i'm still not convinced boozer add that much to the team. yeah he can get them 8-10 more wins in the regular season but can he be a factor in the playoffs where teams will expose his defense?


----------



## Hyperion

So it's nearly official:
http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/nba/news/story?id=6145912


> he New York Knicks have acquired Carmelo Anthony, league sources told ESPN The Magazine senior writer Chris Broussard on Monday night.
> 
> The swap is a three-way deal including Minnesota, a league source told Broussard.
> 
> The deal would end the season-long trade saga involving Denver's All-Star forward and send him to his desired destination. If it goes through, it puts Anthony alongside Amare Stoudemire in a potentially explosive frontcourt -- at a heavy cost to the Knicks.
> 
> As a part of the deal, the Knicks will send Wilson Chandler, Raymond Felton, Danilo Gallinari, Timofey Mozgov and a 2014 first-round draft pick to the Nuggets, who would get additional picks and cash, the sources said. Along with Anthony, New York would acquire Chauncey Billups, Shelden Williams, Anthony Carter and Renaldo Balkman.
> 
> New York will send Anthony Randolph and Eddy Curry to Minnesota as part of the deal in exchange for Corey Brewer.
> 
> The Denver Post first reported the trade.


----------



## Hyperion

Essentially, the Knicks traded Gallinari and Chandler for Melo. Pretty... pretty.... pretty good.


----------



## Bogg

Dre™ said:


> Chicago is not with the Celtics or Heat.


If they can land, say, an Aaron Afflalo type and both their big men are healthy they can give either of those teams a game. Against Miami they have the bigs to pound the Heat inside and control the paint, and if they turn a series with Boston into a track meet they can take advantage of their athleticism. I don't think they'd be the favorites in either series, but, IMO, they're closer to Boston and Miami than they are to Orlando and Atlanta.


----------



## Dissonance

Hyperion said:


> So it's nearly official:
> http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/nba/news/story?id=6145912


Yeah, it was official last night, bunch of pages ago.


----------



## Marcus13

2008 Boston Celtics : The Blueprint


----------



## Tom

I found this all tiresome because he was NEVER going to go anywhere else. This was much to do about nothing.


----------



## Hyperion

Dissonance said:


> Yeah, it was official last night, bunch of pages ago.


I was on the vacation. Celebrate my greatness in sharing with you the story of the century!


----------



## Floods

chapi said:


> I actually don't think they got alot better. They are basicly the same quality as before but without chemistry


I can agree that Melo may not be an _ideal_ fit here, but come the **** on. They exchanged Felton and a heap of **** for Anthony and Billups, and it was a lateral move? Lololol. The first ingredient to being a great team is having great players. Once you have them, it's a hell of a lot easier to fill in the other spots around them.


----------



## Ben

Knicks running with those players will be a lotta fun to watch. What keaf said too, 2k is gonna be sick.


----------



## Ron

Dissonance said:


> Yeah, it was official last night, bunch of pages ago.


Actually, Hyper is right. The league office has to approve the deal today before it becomes official.


----------



## ChosenFEW

speaking of that.... how many times has the league actually disapproved a deal?... especially at this point in time


----------



## Ron

ChosenFEW said:


> speaking of that.... how many times has the league actually disapproved a deal?... especially at this point in time


It will probably be approved...the only reason a deal would not be approved would be if it didn't fall within the confines of the CBA...in other words, if the calculation of matching salaries was incorrect.

But all the teams employ technicians now that pour over the numbers and they are almost always right down to the dollar, so it would be shocking if the deal was struck down in that regard.

Last year, the NHL struck down a deal when New Jersey tried to play games with Ilya Kovalchuck's 15-year, $100 million contract, having him paid only $500,000 in some years...they said the deal was structured to get around their CBA. New Jersey merely recomputed the numbers to make it work and the deal was approved.


----------



## Kidd

So who's going to be starting at center? Amare? The Landlord?


----------



## kbdullah

Turiaf I guess


----------



## HB

Would have liked him to go to the Nets but again I am not sure how it benefits the NBA when the big city teams have all the big names. Expect Paul or Williams to join him and I guess Dwight will be on the move too. Good luck to those folks who love things like that. I am beginning to lose interest in the league.


----------



## jericho

Tragedy said:


> The Knicks are two pieces away from Contending. A starting quality center and a long term pass first point guard.


But those are arguably the two hardest positions to fill well - especially for a cash-strapped team.


----------



## HB

They arent cash strapped though. Thankfully the cap and luxury tax prevent them from putting together all star squads, but the Knicks have a lot of money to waste.


----------



## 29380

The Knicks are also get back a $11 or $12 million trade exception and a 1st rounder from Minny.


----------



## Tragedy

HB said:


> They arent cash strapped though. Thankfully the cap and luxury tax prevent them from putting together all star squads, but the Knicks have a lot of money to waste.


I'm sure if it were the Nets you wouldn't say that.

Haaaaa!

Nets lose big this season. Man, the Russian needs to sell that team. They're starting off poorly.


----------



## Diable

You don't get a trade exception on just the Minnesota deal. This is a three way deal that doesn't work without Minnesota taking on payroll. The Knicks were over the cap and they are not giving out more salary than they are taking back.


----------



## Tragedy

Diable said:


> You don't get a trade exception on just the Minnesota deal. This is a three way deal that doesn't work without Minnesota taking on payroll. The Knicks were over the cap and they are not giving out more salary than they are taking back.


Oh ok. Thanks for clarification.


----------



## E.H. Munro

jericho said:


> But those are arguably the two hardest positions to fill well - especially for a cash-strapped team.


I'm not sure that I agree. One, this is the golden age of point guards, quality ones have been flooding into the NBA over the last 5-8 years in such profusion that you can find pretty good ones in the middle of the first round. Two, while all-round centers are tough to gin up, the Knicks really don't need that sort of player. They need a defensive backstopper, and while not easy to fill the role, it can be done. Kendrick Perkins is one of the better defensive backstops in the league and he was a tail end of the first round pick.

So while I don't think it will be easy, per se, I also don't think that this is the hard part of the job. The hard part is finding a pair of cornerstones that can carry the scoring load. And the Knicks have done that.


----------



## E.H. Munro

Brian said:


> So who's going to be starting at center? Amare? The Landlord?


The Slumlord is the opposite of what the Knicks need from a center. They need someone to provide defense and rebounding, and Shellhead does one of those two things badly. And the other is simply indescribable (there are horror stories here in Boston at how little effort Patrick Olowo'Bryant & Shellhead put into their defense).


----------



## GNG

Funny subplot is Renaldo Balkman returning to NY.

qjyt1Vm9YM


----------



## afobisme

the knicks won't be contenders.. even if they have 2 more pieces. there are too many weaknesses (ie bad coach, melo and amare being overrated).


----------



## HB

Tragedy said:


> I'm sure if it were the Nets you wouldn't say that.
> 
> Haaaaa!
> 
> Nets lose big this season. Man, the Russian needs to sell that team. They're starting off poorly.


The Nets dont have an Amare type player though.


----------



## kbdullah

afobisme said:


> the knicks won't be contenders.. even if they have 2 more pieces. there are too many weaknesses (ie bad coach, melo and amare being overrated).


I think they'll be contenders...remember the Suns were 'contenders' even though they never won a championship.


----------



## Tragedy

Yeah, I don't like D'Antoni either.

So let me fix it. 

The two pieces I mentioned before and a new coach.


----------



## Dissonance

afobisme said:


> the knicks won't be contenders.. even if they have 2 more pieces. there are too many weaknesses (ie bad coach, melo and amare being overrated).


You think everyone is overrated. All I ever see you post.


----------



## HB

Sam Amico: Byron Scott on Carmelo trade: "You don't want to know my opinion on what happens with players today. You really don't."


----------



## afobisme

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/211275/Carmelo_Thought_He_Was_Headed_To_New_Jersey

check it out, the knicks called melo's bluff. what suckers.



Dissonance said:


> You think everyone is overrated. All I ever see you post.


maybe you see me post about amare or melo.. or maybe about bosh. those are the only 3 guys i think who are overrated in the league (or at least i can think of).

d'antoni coaching, amare and melo playing together... i think they're going to give up more than 100 points per game. and they'd be a 55ish win team.


----------



## ChosenFEW

check this out.... knicks have 2 warm up games to test things with melo,.. against the bucks and then the cavs..... then we go against the heat on sunday...


a lot of hype going down sunday


----------



## HKF

The thing is, a defensive center isn't going to play for D'Antoni, so you guys need to stop that nonsense right now. D'Antoni is going to play small ball. The Knicks are going to score, but they are going to lose high scoring games, because this dude refuses to play inside-out. Then after he is fired, a good coach is going to come in and win with Melo and Amare.


----------



## PauloCatarino

U was longing for the day the Knicks became relevant again... This is a Godsend.
Billups/Yellow/Amar'e is not Wade/JAmes/Bosh, but whoever thinks the Knicks aren't laying the foundation for a championship contender team is a damn fool.


----------



## Dre

D'Antoni a) isn't in love with Melo and Amare together and b) doesn't play the brand of ball New Yorkers respect, so I agree he'll be out of there sooner than later, and have said as much. 

The Knicks will be in honeymoon period for a bit, but once the truth is out there he's done


----------



## eddymac

Ron said:


> LOL, set for what? :laugh:


In terms of being a good team.


----------



## Tragedy

:starwars:


HKF said:


> The thing is, a defensive center isn't going to play for D'Antoni, so you guys need to stop that nonsense right now. D'Antoni is going to play small ball. The Knicks are going to score, but they are going to lose high scoring games, because this dude refuses to play inside-out. Then after he is fired, a good coach is going to come in and win with Melo and Amare.





Dre™ said:


> D'Antoni a) isn't in love with Melo and Amare together and b) doesn't play the brand of ball New Yorkers respect, so I agree he'll be out of there sooner than later, and have said as much.
> 
> The Knicks will be in honeymoon period for a bit, but once the truth is out there he's done


Can't wait.


----------



## Tragedy

First it was no one wants to play for the Knicks. Then Amare signs. Then it was NY settling for Amare and he wouldn't be able to handle NY and the expectations. Then he proves to be the second best signing of the offseason (Lebron and wade were a package deal apparently) and third best player of the FA class. The. It was talks that the Knicks couldn't get Melo. Now he's here and everyone is saying the Knicks gave up way too much and the Knicks are barely better now...

And now two of the best points in the league want to come here. Who else wants to join? New York is going to prove to be able to attract free agents as good as Miami will attract them, if not better.


----------



## Pump Bacon

Yea the Knicks are beginning to turn it around big-time compared to where they used to be. Having two solid stars will be great for that franchise and they're going to be very entertaining too. FWIW *Tony Parker* said he was going to sign with the Knicks if he didn't re-up with the Spurs, he simply loves that city, MSG, and has a lot of connections there. 

However whats the deal with Isiah being back in the news again for the Knicks? Thats not a name that really inspires confidence considering his history.


----------



## e-monk

is Melo going to take a pay cut? even if they let Chauncey go they're going to have 2 players making somewhere in the neighborhood of 40m next season and the cap is coming down and there are going to be less exceptions and loop holes

not sure how you add CP3 or Williams without some pretty damn creative financial footwork given those considerations


----------



## Tragedy

Pump Bacon said:


> Yea the Knicks are beginning to turn it around big-time compared to where they used to be. Having two solid stars will be great for that franchise and they're going to be very entertaining too. FWIW *Tony Parker* said he was going to sign with the Knicks if he didn't re-up with the Spurs, he simply loves that city, MSG, and has a lot of connections there.
> 
> However whats the deal with Isiah being back in the news again for the Knicks? Thats not a name that really inspires confidence considering his history.


It makes me sick.


----------



## Dissonance

Tragedy said:


> First it was no one wants to play for the Knicks. Then Amare signs. Then it was NY settling for Amare and he wouldn't be able to handle NY and the expectations. Then he proves to be the second best signing of the offseason (Lebron and wade were a package deal apparently) and third best player of the FA class. The. It was talks that the Knicks couldn't get Melo. Now he's here and everyone is saying the Knicks gave up way too much and the Knicks are barely better now...
> 
> And now two of the best points in the league want to come here. Who else wants to join? New York is going to prove to be able to attract free agents as good as Miami will attract them, if not better.


Exactly. That's how it always is with people. Always come up with something else.


----------



## Dre

I read where someone today said they're "stuck" after this deal


----------



## Hyperion

HKF said:


> The thing is, a defensive center isn't going to play for D'Antoni, so you guys need to stop that nonsense right now. D'Antoni is going to play small ball. The Knicks are going to score, but they are going to lose high scoring games, because this dude refuses to play inside-out. Then after he is fired, a good coach is going to come in and win with Melo and Amare.


This just made my head hurt. I'm going to bed. Your logic is illogical.


----------



## Juggernaut

What's the record for most posts in a thread?


----------



## 29380

Melo's arrival

http://knicksnow.com/posts/894-melo-arrives-in-ny


----------



## Tragedy

As far as topical thread, this is the one with the most replies. It just beat Tim Hardaway's "I hate gay people" thread.

It's second to some official GM thread.


----------



## BenDengGo

Tragedy said:


> As far as topical thread, this is the one with the most replies. It just beat Tim Hardaway's "I hate gay people" thread.
> 
> It's second to some official GM thread.


yeah, but the tim hardway thread got locked before extending its previous record 

but the carmelo thread has ways to go of being the most viewed thread...
the *Which NBA'er has the sexiest wife?* has over 74.000 views, while only being 5 pages long, wile the melo thread has almost 100 pages with below 25.000 views...

thats means only the affected teams fans plus some cared for this one...


----------



## Ben

No real point to this post, just thought it was pretty sick.


----------



## Hyperion

I wonder who will doubt this story now?

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/knicks/me_amar_and_melo_BU8MzS41wIdwRYLU1D7NTJ


> It was a wedding toast heard from Broadway to Bourbon Street.
> During Carmelo Anthony's wedding Saturday night at Cipriani's on 42nd Street, Chris Paul, the superstar New Orleans point guard, predicted a future Knicks Dream Team.
> Take that, LeCon.
> According to a person who spoke with wedding attendee Amar'e Stoudemire, Paul made the reference during a speech of a potential union of himself, Stoudemire and Anthony, saying, "We'll form our own Big 3," Paul allegedly said.
> Attendee Spike Lee nearly passed out at the suggestion.
> The Knicks may not have to wait until 2012. The Knicks have an alternate plan as they stockpile a lot of tradeable assets.


----------



## e-monk

is CP3 going to take the vets min?


----------



## Hyperion

I didn't know that an expiring 14mil Billups contract wouldn't be usable to trade for Paul. Oh and they're only at 45mil next year if they opt not to take Billups for next year.


----------



## BenDengGo

didnt they already say the would pick up chaunceys team option, just for trading purposes down the road?


----------



## E.H. Munro

Hyperion said:


> I didn't know that an expiring 14mil Billups contract wouldn't be usable to trade for Paul. Oh and they're only at 45mil next year if they opt not to take Billups for next year.


The NBA owns the Hornets, and they can't trade Paul until the franchise's future is decided. If the team's being contracted then Paul goes into the dispersal draft, and if it's being sold it will be up to the new owner to move him. And they only have three players under contract in 2013, so their actual cap figure for free agent purposes is closer to $47 million.


----------



## 29380




----------



## Dre

So 5 months of BS and the Nets said fine...and traded for a better player in 2 days. Things that make you go hmm...


----------



## Hyperion

Dre™;6498626 said:


> So 5 months of BS and the Nets said fine...and traded for a better player in 2 days. Things that make you go hmm...


Yup, it appears Prokorov was just messing with the Knicks. They probably would have been able to keep Chandler had he not meddled in the trade.....


Or they called the Jazz at the right time.


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## Dre

Very true. The Nets/Knicks rivalry is getting real..wait 'til they're 15 minutes away on the train...


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## HB

ßen said:


> No real point to this post, just thought it was pretty sick.


This is hot.


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## Hyperion

Dre™ said:


> Very true. The Nets/Knicks rivalry is getting real..wait 'til they're 15 minutes away on the train...


I think that was his goal the whole time when he bought the team, to create a rivalry that could be self-sustaining. However, they requires the Knicks to be good and the Nets to be good. A rare feat.


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## Dre

I think Walsh leaves after being shown up, I think Isiah or a puppet of Isiah takes the reins, and I think the Knicks hedge all of their bets on real contention on Paul being swayed by Isiah in a meeting come July 2012. 

People don't give Stephen A. credit a lot, but he had a good point when he mentioned a lot of these young guys aren't going to come away mesmerized from a meeting with Walsh the way LeBron was with Riley or some people are with Thomas. Charisma means something. 

You have to realize these are still kids. 

I remember reading last summer how executives said the meetings showcased how immature and out of touch these guys are with the types of questions that were asked. And I'm talking about the Bron, Wade, Bosh meetings. 

I'm reaching heavy, but if I'm Dolan I reach back out to Patrick Ewing and "infer" he could come coach if he could bring Dwight Howard with him. That's probably a little too storybook though.

At the least though when Dwight leaves Orlando he should bring Pat back in some capacity that same week and have him and Isiah pitch Paul on what it means to win at the Garden etc etc


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## HB

Heh you would hope like Woj said that a lot of these guys know the difference between a guy trying to use them to get back into the spot light and a competent GM but anyhoo how many times has Anthony Randolph been traded btw?


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## Bogg

HB said:


> but anyhoo how many times has Anthony Randolph been traded btw?


Just twice. Q Rich he's not.


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## Da Grinch

Dre™ said:


> I think Walsh leaves after being shown up, I think Isiah or a puppet of Isiah takes the reins, and I think the Knicks hedge all of their bets on real contention on Paul being swayed by Isiah in a meeting come July 2012.
> 
> People don't give Stephen A. credit a lot, but he had a good point when he mentioned a lot of these young guys aren't going to come away mesmerized from a meeting with Walsh the way LeBron was with Riley or some people are with Thomas. Charisma means something.
> 
> You have to realize these are still kids.
> 
> I remember reading last summer how executives said the meetings showcased how immature and out of touch these guys are with the types of questions that were asked. And I'm talking about the Bron, Wade, Bosh meetings.
> 
> I'm reaching heavy, but if I'm Dolan I reach back out to Patrick Ewing and "infer" he could come coach if he could bring Dwight Howard with him. That's probably a little too storybook though.
> 
> At the least though when Dwight leaves Orlando he should bring Pat back in some capacity that same week and have him and Isiah pitch Paul on what it means to win at the Garden etc etc


I dont think people realize what personalities and traits that may be favorable in an interview to a 60 yr. (meaning an owner) may not be so for recruiting a 25 year old.

for all the respectability donnie walsh has i dont ever remember him wooing FA's in indiana , a guy with that long a history as a GM you pretty much know what you are getting.

the knicks have amar'e because they gave him 100 mil. guaranteed with no BS about it.

I dont know why they dont bring back ewing , it makes no sense unless things got personal between dolan and ewing , they hired quite a few former knicks from clyde frazier to H20 to starks even charles smith has drawn a paycheck from them.


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## ChosenFEW

how tall are some of these guys really....


i just saw the press conference and allan houston and carmelo were eye to eye


edit: carmelo and lala getting a TV show airing this summer (its true, seriously).... lmao


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## LA68

Hyperion said:


> Yup, it appears Prokorov was just messing with the Knicks. They probably would have been able to keep Chandler had he not meddled in the trade.....
> 
> 
> Or they called the Jazz at the right time.


Why exactly would they care about keeping any of those players ??

I have gotten sick of people saying that NY gave too much. Who exactly was so great that they gave up ?

Chandler plays the SF (Melo) and SG (Fields) so he wouldn't play anyways.
Gallinari only plays the SF (Melo)

So these two guys would be fighting over maybe 15-20 mins ??

What was Mozgov gonna do against Boston or Howard in the playoffs ?? He's a journeyman at best.

Billups with a ring balances Felton who was swept out in his only playoff appearance. And they still have young Douglas. 

NY got star power, hype and a much better chance at success. And now its easier to get some vet to play for the minimum and complete the roster. 

Denver could become "Cleveland West"


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## Hyperion

Houston is 6'6 and Melo is 6'8. Camera angles can make them look identical. Hell, even different shoes could make them look the same height.


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## Tragedy

e-monk said:


> is CP3 going to take the vets min?


Knicks have 43 million in salary the summer of 2012.

I sincerely doubt the cap will come down below 55 million.


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## Tragedy

Carmelo is 6-6.25 barefoot, 6-7.5 in shoes. Allan Houston is wearing dress shoes which adds more than sneakers.


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## Bogg

Hyperion said:


> Houston is 6'6 and Melo is 6'8. Camera angles can make them look identical. Hell, even different shoes could make them look the same height.


Melo was a shade over 6'6" when he came into the league, so while he may have grown a bit since he came in young, it would be expected that he and Houston are almost the same height.


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## HB

You guys realize that Gallo/Chandler could be used in another trade right....there are teams that actually could use those guys. But hey, the Knicks didn't give up too much to get Melo right


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## MemphisX

I don't think the Knicks gave up much at all for Melo. Felton/Mozgov were D'Antonio/Knick social projects. If I tell you 5 months ago the Knicks can get Melo AND Billups for this package, you call me a liar.


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## Ben

Just played a ranked match on 2k and blew out the Lakers by 20..this trade is very good for the Knicks.


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## Bogg

HB said:


> You guys realize that Gallo/Chandler could be used in another trade right....there are teams that actually could use those guys. But hey, the Knicks didn't give up too much to get Melo right


They......they didn't. Again, the new CBA is going to be player-unfriendly, and if you lowball the Nuggets enough it becomes worth it to just hold onto him hoping that either he blinks on the extension or there's a franchise tag in the next agreement. The idea that they were going to sign him for nothing with cap space that didn't exist; or trade Chandler, Curry, a first and whatever they could get from the Wolves for him is the _only_ reason anyone's saying that the Knicks gave up too much.


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## E.H. Munro

Tragedy said:


> Knicks have 43 million in salary the summer of 2012.
> 
> I sincerely doubt the cap will come down below 55 million.


Paul's a free agent in the summer of 2013, when the Knicks have three players under contract, meaning that there are nine minimum salary slots that will be put against the cap. Meaning their cap figure will be closer to $47 million.


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## e-monk

Tragedy said:


> Knicks have 43 million in salary the summer of 2012.
> 
> I sincerely doubt the cap will come down below 55 million.


ok so a max player is going to settle for 10m? and who else is going to be on that team?


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## Dre

Who knows how much 10M will be close to the new max


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## afobisme

so watching this first game.. seems like melo's going to have to become a better passer, because he just dominates the ball and i don't think that's going to work out well with stoudamire.

still only the first game though


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## Bogg

afobisme said:


> so watching this first game.. seems like melo's going to have to become a better passer, because he just dominates the ball and i don't think that's going to work out well with stoudamire.
> 
> still only the first game though


To be fair, they were basically playing pickup ball out there. Give him some time to practice and learn the offensive system before labeling him a ball-stopper.


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## Hyperion

E.H. Munro said:


> Paul's a free agent in the summer of 2013, when the Knicks have three players under contract, meaning that there are nine minimum salary slots that will be put against the cap. Meaning their cap figure will be closer to $47 million.


Do realize that if teams were to stay at the 58million cap, it would shave nearly 360 million in player salaries? I think that if they were to cut max salaries to 20% and 25%, teams wouldn't be in the red. So look for a definitive cut in big contracts as well as the MLE. FAs in 2012 may be maxing out at $12-13m/year. On top of that, many bad contracts will be erased. The interesting aspect is that many players aren't under contract and could go play elsewhere.


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## Dre

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Dre said:


> Chandler, Gallo and Fields are all highly regarded, they could probably get good picks or players on the same tier at different positions for them.
> 
> They'll also have cap room, it's not an ideal situation but it never will be when a prime superstar wants out.
> 
> An NBA GM's job is to maximize his situation, not get nothing for a star player because you're not going to be good regardless. It's easy to armchair GM, but that's just ridiculous logic and implies you don't want to be competitive unless you have someone who makes it very easy to be such. In that case me or you could tank until we find the bossman a superstar.
> 
> It's a tough situation, but looking like the Pacers is a lot better than looking like the Cavs.
> 
> And any big time franchise is gonna need a little luck anyway be it through draft or a trade, that goes without saying.
> 
> The best thing for the Nuggets to do is take these guys, be fairly competitive, cash a fair return, and hope you can spin them into a star or sign a big time free agent in due time, not let him leave and be losing 15 games in a row every two months. It's a business, not a videogame, you need to turn somewhat of a profit and not have people coming to your games with paper bags.
> 
> If you traded your star for that package, why wouldn't the next team trade their star for that package or something similar. They can do a sign and trade, they can trade for a disgruntled guy, who knows.
> 
> More teams have succeeded waiting for their move then outright sucking and hoping someone will save them.
> 
> End of the day the Nuggets have more flexibility and a more worthwhile value as a franchise getting something back then just letting him go and turning into a cess pool. You have options with assets, without them you have the Cavaliers. .


Tell me I'm wrong now. I can't believe people were trying to say losing him for nothing was better than this Knicks package.


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## Bogg

*Re: Round and Round 'Melo Goes, Where He Ends Up Nobody Knows*



Dre said:


> Tell me I'm wrong now. I can't believe people were trying to say losing him for nothing was better than this Knicks package.


I thought both teams did fairly well for themselves. Give the Knicks an offseason or two to balance out the roster and get the pieces familiar with each other and they'll be much better than they are now, and the Nuggets got multiple useful players out of the deal. Given the circumstances(Melo would only sign in NY) it was pretty logical.


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## Dre

> Chandler, Gallo and Fields are all highly regarded, they could probably get good picks or players on the same tier at different positions for them.
> 
> They'll also have cap room, it's not an ideal situation but it never will be when a prime superstar wants out.
> 
> An NBA GM's job is to maximize his situation, not get nothing for a star player because you're not going to be good regardless. It's easy to armchair GM, but that's just ridiculous logic and implies you don't want to be competitive unless you have someone who makes it very easy to be such. In that case me or you could tank until we find the bossman a superstar.
> 
> It's a tough situation, but looking like the Pacers is a lot better than looking like the Cavs.
> 
> And any big time franchise is gonna need a little luck anyway be it through draft or a trade, that goes without saying.
> 
> The best thing for the Nuggets to do is take these guys, be fairly competitive, cash a fair return, and hope you can spin them into a star or sign a big time free agent in due time, not let him leave and be losing 15 games in a row every two months. It's a business, not a videogame, you need to turn somewhat of a profit and not have people coming to your games with paper bags.
> 
> If you traded your star for that package, why wouldn't the next team trade their star for that package or something similar. They can do a sign and trade, they can trade for a disgruntled guy, who knows.
> 
> More teams have succeeded waiting for their move then outright sucking and hoping someone will save them.
> 
> End of the day the Nuggets have more flexibility and a more worthwhile value as a franchise getting something back then just letting him go and turning into a cess pool. You have options with assets, without them you have the Cavaliers. .


Again I quote the crux of my POV for Ehmunro. Don't try to rewrite history. I know what I was arguing.

And I'm gonna take credit for mentioning like 5 times that Walsh was gone after this fiasco

But I'll take the L in saying Boston was better than Chicago :clown:


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## RollWithEm

I miss this thread. Nostalgia bump?


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## R-Star

Dre said:


> Again I quote the crux of my POV for Ehmunro. Don't try to rewrite history. I know what I was arguing.
> 
> And I'm gonna take credit for mentioning like 5 times that Walsh was gone after this fiasco
> 
> But I'll take the L in saying Boston was better than Chicago :clown:


I think this is the first time you've ever been able to bump something saying your right. 

It must be a glorious feeling for you Dre.


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## E.H. Munro

*Re: Sources: Nets, Nuggets 'further along'; 15 player trade rumored*



E.H. Munro said:


> It has nothing to do with a first year front office. *There's just no incentive for the Nuggets to give Anthony away. If they give him away for low firsts they lose millions in playoff revenue and have to pay the salaries of waste products like Eddy Curry in the bargain.*





E.H. Munro said:


> They offered him an extension long before they talked to the Knicks. Anthony just declined to sign it. The Knicks have been resorting to lowball offers since. *And there's zero motivation for Denver to pay Eddy Curry's salary for the privilege of losing millions in playoff revenue*.


Yeah, I'm definitely re-writing history.


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