# Pax's "tough love": Show some mental toughness (merged)



## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

*Pax's "tough love": Show some mental toughness*

_i posted this just now in the news thread, but after thinking about it for another minute, i think it deserves it's own thread._


pax is mad at the refs. and he's mad at the team too.

they just played this little audio blurb on espn1000 update:

(paraphrasing) pax to the team:

_show some mental toughness. find a way to win. make the other team beat you. i think we've handed a few games away lately._

he didn't sound angry per say. he sounded exhausted.


---


well, yeah. it might be just me, but i think they've actually been playing pretty hard in these last few games. much moreso than during the losing streak. yes, the third quarter breakdowns have to be eliminated. i mean what exactly goes on in that locker room during halftime? 

where has the mental toughness gone? why can't we close out games? 

and yes, mike, pax should very much lead by example. this thread is part a call out to him as much as it is to the players. i mean what player is going to be the guy to call out the other guys about this? or are they doing the best they can with what they have? and why must pax continue with these little emotional outbursts in the media?


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## ViciousFlogging (Sep 3, 2003)

*Re: Pax to team: Show some mental toughness*

ViciousFlogging to Pax: Practice what you preach. And leave no stone unturned trying to improve the roster.


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## jimmy (Aug 20, 2002)

*Re: Pax to team: Show some mental toughness*



mizenkay said:


> well, yeah. it might be just me, but i think they've actually been playing pretty hard in these last few games. much moreso than during the losing streak. yes, the third quarter breakdowns have to be eliminated. i mean what exactly goes on in that locker room during halftime?
> 
> where has the mental toughness gone? why can't we close out games?


It's not just you. They seem to play well for most of the game (they built comfortable leads in their last two games) but start to unravel once they miss a few shots in a row or get a few bad calls late in the game. 

Some people believe they need an all-star to close out these close games and give the team mental toughness. Last year, however, they were able to close out games and had no all-star caliber player. I just feel this team is on the verge of winning again. Specific players, however, need to step up. Chandler, Sweetney, and Gordon, especially.


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## Pippenatorade (Dec 29, 2005)

*Re: Pax to team: Show some mental toughness*

After saying that to the team Pax was asked if any trades have been offered. He went Ryan Leaf on the reporter.


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

*Re: Pax to team: Show some mental toughness*

more audio from pax on the last update. again, paraphrased but almost verbatim:

_scott can only fight for them so much. i can only fight for them so much. they have to fight for themselves. they have to make plays. we may not be the biggest or fastest out there, but we have guys who can make plays. we have to make plays._


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

*Re: Pax to team: Show some mental toughness*

Interesting sound clip from Skiles on THE SCORE.

There are guys on this team that have to decide if they want to be an average NBA player, which in this day and age means an excuse maker and someone running to their agent telling them they are the man, or someone that is willing to fight and scrap every night.

Wow.

I wonder exactly what players he was talking about? It was not just 1.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

*Re: Pax to team: Show some mental toughness*

The chilling thing is that many of these players were chosen based on their attitude and fundamentals. 

There were guys out there that may have been quicker or taller or that could jump higher, but these guys "knew how to win" because they played in the big games.

Over two years after the purge began... almost all Paxson's hand picked players on the roster... and this is what we are down to.

These players are busting their tail out there right now. Who isn't giving the effort? Perhaps Chandler.... but I don't see anything egregious out there. These guys are playing hard. They just can't get it done.


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

*Re: Pax to team: Show some mental toughness*



kukoc4ever said:


> The chilling thing is that many of these players were chosen based on their attitude and fundamentals.
> 
> There were guys out there that may have been quicker or taller or that could jump higher, but these guys "knew how to win" because they played in the big games.
> 
> ...


 it's extremely disturbing. now the entire team is under the bus? wow.

i mean kirk had like what, 4 steals last night. like you said in the game thread, k, some of those saves were really gutty and scrappy. and what happens? they turn it over, they fail to capitalize. but not for trying! like i said, it think the effort, for the most part has been there lately. chandler has a mental block of some kind but nocioni has been great. songaila has been pretty good too. they got some nice production out of 'fella last night. 

wow. 

ok. one more pax blurb playing just now on espn. about the refs:


_i'll fight for my guys cause they fight every night._ 


well WHICH IS IT!!?? geeez.


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## Pippenatorade (Dec 29, 2005)

*Re: Pax to team: Show some mental toughness*



mizenkay said:


> it's extremely disturbing. now the entire team is under the bus? wow.
> 
> i mean kirk had like what, 4 steals last night. like you said in the game thread, k, some of those saves were really gutty and scrappy. and what happens? they turn it over, they fail to capitalize. but not for trying! like i said, it think the effort, for the most part has been there lately. chandler has a mental block of some kind but nocioni has been great. songaila has been pretty good too. they got some nice production out of 'fella last night.
> 
> ...


*Kirk Hinrich is playing the best ball of his career, and, better than I thought he would be this season.*


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

*Re: Pax to team: Show some mental toughness*



Pippenatorade said:


> *Kirk Hinrich is playing the best ball of his career, and, better than I thought he would be this season.*


well after he finished totally sucking during the losing streak, yeah, he's been playing really really well like the last 8 games. i guess it was the "symbolic" move back to the point.

but that not really the point.

now on The Score, they're debating skiles. and whether skiles can coach a star. 

and we have pax and skiles on the radio (via those blurbs they're playing on the updates) saying 1) they fight every night. 2) they don't fight hard enough 3) they have playmakers but they can't make plays 4) they're not big enough 5) they're not mentally tough 6) we have agendas on the team 7) shall i go on? 

these are the guys that pax and skiles wanted. and now this?


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## bre9 (Jan 8, 2006)

*Re: Pax to team: Show some mental toughness*

I wish Scott Skiles would get fired and Paxson need to make better decisions.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

*Re: Pax to team: Show some mental toughness*

Mize and atorade. Great work on this thread. You 2 do a good job exposing what does appear to be anything but a united front from the front office and headcoaching staff. Im still scratching my head on why they are so surprised this is happening. Especially at the FT line. The refs have become the token excuse. But the fact is we dont have anyone on this roster, Kirk included, who deserves to get to the line more then once or twice a night. No finishers, no physical player and no attackers = no FTs. Its kind of hilarious.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: Pax to team: Show some mental toughness*



kukoc4ever said:


> The chilling thing is that many of these players were chosen based on their attitude and fundamentals.


I dunno about "chilling", but it should be a lesson to Pax.

He _should_ know that these guys are good players who work hard.

One conclusion to draw from all this is that if you put even "good jib" guys in a ****ty situation, they aren't going to respond well.

Another conclusion... the one that Pax and Skiles seem to implicitly be drawing... is that our guys are somehow slacking. 

Well, perhaps, but those guys strike me as one of the least slackingest teams in recent memory. and it leads me to wonder what, if that's the problem, what the solution might be.


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## Pippenatorade (Dec 29, 2005)

*Re: Pax to team: Show some mental toughness*

My grandfather always used to tell me, "if you're going to make the rules, you better damn well make sure you know the rules, and that you have your story straight. Nobody will respect a leader who contradicts himself."

And the more I look around, the more I see it. "Leaders" everywhere wanting to have it both ways. If your way is the right way, then at least know what your way is, and when you have it your way, don't try to call your way the wrong way, because isn't your way supposed to be the right way? The right way is that when your right way becomes the wrong way, you suck it up, keep it in house, figure out where everyone stands, and make it the right way, meanwhile taking blame for the entire time it is in fact the wrong way, since you were happy to preach and take credit when your way appeared to be the right way. And I don't know if this post is even the right way or the wrong way, but I'm going to make it the right way by not claiming that it's the right way.

 I need a nap lol.


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## ViciousFlogging (Sep 3, 2003)

*Re: Pax to team: Show some mental toughness*



Pippenatorade said:


> My grandfather always used to tell me, "if you're going to make the rules, you better damn well make sure you know the rules, and that you have your story straight. Nobody will respect a leader who contradicts himself."
> 
> And the more I look around, the more I see it. "Leaders" everywhere wanting to have it both ways. If your way is the right way, then at least know what your way is, and when you have it your way, don't try to call your way the wrong way, because isn't your way supposed to be the right way? The right way is that when your right way becomes the wrong way, you suck it up, keep it in house, figure out where everyone stands, and make it the right way, meanwhile taking blame for the entire time it is in fact the wrong way, since you were happy to preach and take credit when your way appeared to be the right way. And I don't know if this post is even the right way or the wrong way, but I'm going to make it the right way by not claiming that it's the right way.
> 
> I need a nap lol.


The words "right/wrong way" lost all meaning after I read that paragraph. :laugh:


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

*Re: Pax to team: Show some mental toughness*

Pax/Skiles to team: "The beatings will continue until morale improves."


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

*Re: Pax to team: Show some mental toughness*



ScottMay said:


> Pax/Skiles to team: "The beatings will continue until morale improves."


:laugh: 


_"Wrong, Do it again!"

"If you don't eat yer meat, you can't have any pudding. How can you
have any pudding if you don't eat yer meat?"

"You! Yes, you behind the bikesheds, stand still laddy!"_


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## Babble-On (Sep 28, 2005)

*Re: Pax to team: Show some mental toughness*

Pax, why can't you be all quiet and mysterious like other GMs?


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

*Re: Pax to team: Show some mental toughness*



Pippenatorade said:


> My grandfather always used to tell me, "if you're going to make the rules, you better damn well make sure you know the rules, and that you have your story straight. Nobody will respect a leader who contradicts himself."
> 
> And the more I look around, the more I see it. "Leaders" everywhere wanting to have it both ways. If your way is the right way, then at least know what your way is, and when you have it your way, don't try to call your way the wrong way, because isn't your way supposed to be the right way? The right way is that when your right way becomes the wrong way, you suck it up, keep it in house, figure out where everyone stands, and make it the right way, meanwhile taking blame for the entire time it is in fact the wrong way, since you were happy to preach and take credit when your way appeared to be the right way. And I don't know if this post is even the right way or the wrong way, but I'm going to make it the right way by not claiming that it's the right way.
> 
> I need a nap lol.



And I have gone cross-eyed mate! 

on a serious note, while being slightly confused by this, I think I know what your saying. Your saying you cant change ways mid stream and what was the right way one day has to be the right way the next. Consistency is the key and this does a good job of showing the lack of it from Mr Pax.

I miss Krause. Yes, atleast he wouldnt go spouting off to the press or publicly challenging refs. krause might have been a first class *******, (though people like Jim and Karen Stack, BJ Armstrong, and the 3 Cs all love him still), but he handled himself like a professional in the public eye. Sometimes I think Pax is just a dumb jock


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## Pippenatorade (Dec 29, 2005)

*Re: Pax to team: Show some mental toughness*



rlucas4257 said:


> And I have gone cross-eyed mate!
> 
> on a serious note, while being slightly confused by this, I think I know what your saying. Your saying you cant change ways mid stream and what was the right way one day has to be the right way the next. Consistency is the key and this does a good job of showing the lack of it from Mr Pax.
> 
> I miss Krause. Yes, atleast he wouldnt go spouting off to the press or publicly challenging refs. krause might have been a first class *******, (though people like Jim and Karen Stack, BJ Armstrong, and the 3 Cs all love him still), but he handled himself like a professional in the public eye. Sometimes I think Pax is just a dumb jock


The best aspects of Krause and the best aspects of Paxson = the perfect GM. One can only acquire players who are sure things and play the certain way, the other can only pick up players who are high risk high reward types. If both existed in the same head so as to save each other from, well, themselves, it would be the perfect GM. 

IMO the best of Krause met the best of Paxson last year. The team had jib and players with other-worldly talents. 03-04 = too far into Krausedom, 05-06 = too far into Paxology.


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

*Re: Pax to team: Show some mental toughness*

and here is the article from garcia:



http://chicagosports.chicagotribune...1,7887607.story?page=1&coll=cs-home-headlines




> Call it tough love.
> 
> *If losses keep piling up for the Bulls, it only will get tougher.*
> 
> ...





> Still, Paxson said he wants every Bulls guard to attack the basket more aggressively.
> 
> 
> "That would be a positive thing," he said. "I also feel when you don't get calls, you get discouraged by it too."
> ...


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

*Re: Pax to team: Show some mental toughness*

maybe if the guys got together and sent the refs a nice muffin basket before the games, then they'd get the calls the other players are getting. 

and young players, players with oh about two, three or so years of nba experience aren't going to make mistakes? i'm not talking about o'fella or pike, but gordon, deng, duhon, nocioni and kirk, heck, even tyson. 

am i the only one who thinks pax and skiles are grasping a bit here? 





unbelievable.


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

*Re: Pax to team: Show some mental toughness*



> This is where Skiles and Paxson differ in opinion. Whereas Paxson defended Hinrich, Skiles noted the third-year starter and other Bulls don't take the time to know the referees, a small but vital nuance to success. Skiles believes it's a trend league-wide.
> 
> "When you come in the league, a good piece of advice is learn all the referees' names, call them by name, treat them with respect," Skiles said. "First of all, that's just having respect for guys who work hard out there. Knowing their names would just be a common courtesy. We don't have it.
> 
> ...


Maybe our players ought to write the refs' names on their hands with marker before the game. And maybe Skiles should have taken less than two years to nip this little problem in the bud.

And I'm glad Pax got to the bottom of the free-throw debate. The fact that some refs don't know how to pronounce "Hinrich" is crystal-clear proof of the NBA conspiracy against the Bulls (the kicker is that every single one of them knows how to pronounce "Didier Ilunga-Mbenga" flawlessly).
_____________

Sorry, folks, this is real nutty Looney-Toons, CYA, the ship is sinking stuff. I mean, what the hell is the message here? It's not even coherent. 

Basically, all of the worst things I feared could happen this season are happening. The momentum from last year is lost, and players are probably beginning to tune out Skiles and Paxson.


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

*Re: Pax to team: Show some mental toughness*

plus it's really great stuff to have in the paper the night before the knick game.



:|


looney tunes is right!


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## Pippenatorade (Dec 29, 2005)

*Re: Pax's "tough love": Show some mental toughness*

Did he just say:

"Abba dabba, you hafta know how to smooze people and do the meet and greet with officials before the game." ?? Huh? So if Tyson just says "hey Jess, how are you" it's all gonna get better. How about:

"We don't have one center on the roster."

or even

"We are too unbalanced as a team"

or better yet even

"Maybe John and I CAN be criticized."

A LEADER doesn't take praise all year long last year and then when things ARENT going well just stand there pointing at Kirk Hinrich like "he needs to have more personality." WTF?! 

Skiles and Paxson need to call Jordan for a little talk about "taking the BAD with the good." Accountability doesn't end at the player roster. 

*I don't want to hear about Chris Duhon, Kirk Hinrich, Luol Deng and Andres Nocioni! They are doing just as good as they were last year. Hell, better. What I want to hear from Skiles and Paxson is:

Jules chill, I'm on the mutha bleeper. Go back in there chill them dudes out and wait for the Wolf, who should be coming DIRECTLY!*


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

*Re: Pax's "tough love": Show some mental toughness*

why violet, you look lovely tonight. have you lost weight? 



:fluttereyelashes:



oh, yeah. that'll work.


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## El Chapu (Oct 23, 2004)

*Re: Pax to team: Show some mental toughness*



ScottMay said:


> Maybe our players ought to write the refs' names on their hands with marker before the game. And maybe Skiles should have taken less than two years to nip this little problem in the bud.
> 
> And I'm glad Pax got to the bottom of the free-throw debate. The fact that some refs don't know how to pronounce "Hinrich" is crystal-clear proof of the NBA conspiracy against the Bulls (the kicker is that every single one of them knows how to pronounce "Didier Ilunga-Mbenga" flawlessly).
> _____________
> ...


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

*Re: Pax's "tough love": Show some mental toughness*

An imagined conversation between Pax and Skiles in the Bulls coaches' locker room 90 minutes prior to tip-off vs. Opponent X: 

Pax: "Who's officiating tonight?"

Skiles: "Salvatore, Vaden, Mauer."

Pax: "What's your take?"

Skiles: "All three know it's _Hine-rick_."

Pax: [audible sigh of relief]

Skiles: "But we're not out of the woods yet."

Pax: "Whaddaya mean?"

Skiles: "Vaden pronounces 'Deng' with a Didinga inflection, not Dinka. Mauer thinks 'Noce' is pronounced with a hard C and long E. Salvatore hates Noce because he found out he's not Italian, and he really hates Darius because he thinks his name is pronounced "Son-gay-la."

Paxson: "****."

Skiles: "Holy ****, you smell that?"

[Red Kerr emerges from bathroom stall, vigorously fanning the sports section of the Trib.]

Red: "Sorry, fellas! My daughter brought over a basket of smelts last night."


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

*Re: Pax's "tough love": Show some mental toughness*

this whole thing has got me just a bit peeved. 


before the losing streak, bulls were doing the see-saw win lose win lose thing. a five hundred team. 8-8 wasn't looking so bad. there had been blowouts and a lot of close wins and losses too. 

then the detroit game happened and they took the floor like a bunch of frightened women. still don't really know what was going on there. 

but they bounced back really strong the next night against the celtics. and then, inexplicably the air went out of the tires with the losing streak.

they were playing some horrible ball at that point. not even going to name names (kirk) but it was on all of them, really. square pegs were getting horribly chafed in their round little holes. starting three guards etc. 

then, magically, the line-up switch (whether it was the actual reason or not) made a mojo thing happen and we won three straight. and the best news was that they were playing hard again. they even held onto that raptor game as it seemed to slip away. they've been hustling pretty well since early jan. in my opinion. and yes, the halftime leads automatically becoming deficits within the first two minute of the third have to stop. that's on the players. 

and now the unrelenting message is "you're still not trying hard enough" and "hey why not try and flatter the refs hey cause they have it really hard out there"? followed with a chaser of "you should be nasty" and "get to know the refs, it's the basic human thing to do"

yes. it's a nice little tossed salad of a mixed message all right. 

to follow up on a point i made at the top of the thread...i think the players are doing just about the best they can with what they have to work with. yes, it would be nice if chandler got his head out of his ***. yes it would be nice to know if sweetney will ever make a point blank jump shot again. but i'm not in the mood to dump on the players anymore. yes, it's on them.


but increasingly more is on pax and skiles. it really is.


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## Pippenatorade (Dec 29, 2005)

*Re: Pax's "tough love": Show some mental toughness*



ScottMay said:


> An imagined conversation between Pax and Skiles in the Bulls coaches' locker room 90 minutes prior to tip-off vs. Opponent X:
> 
> Pax: "Who's officiating tonight?"
> 
> ...


ROFL. So which was it? Did Kerr take a dump in there, or was he in there with the uneaten smelts taking a DNA test?


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

*Re: Pax's "tough love": Show some mental toughness*



Pippenatorade said:


> ROFL. So which was it? Did Kerr take a dump in there, or was he in there with the uneaten smelts taking a DNA test?


Pax demanded Kerr take a DNA test since the ol Redhead's contract is coming up.

Crafty Kerr tried to replace his DNA with that of the smelt.

But Maron quickly realized he was looking at fish DNA under the microscope.


LOL at ScottMay's post. Hysterical.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

*Re: Pax's "tough love": Show some mental toughness*



> But the respect should be mutual. Paxson said a number of officials don't know how to pronounce Hinrich's last name.


This is the strangest thing I've read in a while. What the hell is going on in Paxson's mind? This guy is running our team? (gulp)

Paxson is starting to fall off the deep end. He must really think his philosophies will lead to NBA success long term. He's a true believer in "the right way." Fanatical even. 



If you are acquiring guys who like to say “yessir” to the coach, they are likely going to say “yessir” to the officials. These guys respect authority. That’s why you picked ‘em.

Jalen complained to the refs all the time and fought for his calls and opened a dialoge with the refs. He was hated in this town.

Hinrich was diving for loose balls and playing as right way as the right way can be against Denver. For them to be hammering Hinrich after a good game like that… well… its just not fair. Its not rewarding a nice effort from Hinrich.

Hinrich is a solid player… not a franchise altering superstar. The expectations are too high on this guy from the organization’s standpoint IMO. He may be itching to get out of Chicago just to get the weight of the world off his shoulders and be a 3rh or 4th guy on a good team.

This team is undersized, too young, too soft, too groundbound to win right now. 

IF YOU REALLY WANTED THIS TEAM TO WIN BALL GAMES THIS SEASON PAXSON, YOU SHOULD NOT HAVE TRADED EDDY CURRY AND ANTONIO DAVIS!!!!! 

He knew the team would take a step back. He starting setting the expectations low right after the deal was made. He did it even before that… going into the offseason on THE SCORE, knowing that he was not going to give Curry the $$$$$. Fine. Live with it. Don’t blame the players for playing hard and maximizing their talent for the most part. Other than Chandler, who on the team is really underwhelming us? I guess you can say Gordon, but I don’t expect much from him. Deng is playing fine for what, a 20 year old? Hinrich is back to playing well. Duhon is handling coming off the bench like a champ. Noc made big strides from last year. Sweetney, Songalia… are they underperforming? NO! They just are not difference making players at this point.

Paxson needs to look in the mirror. Like I said a month or two ago, he should apologize to the players and fans for this product he created. He tore apart something good, by choice, and this is now what we have. Own up to it and move on. (and call Ainge up while yer at it).


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## Pippenatorade (Dec 29, 2005)

*Re: Pax's "tough love": Show some mental toughness*



kukoc4ever said:


> This is the strangest thing I've read in a while. What the hell is going on in Paxson's mind? This guy is running our team? (gulp)
> 
> Paxson is starting to fall off the deep end. He must really think his philosophies will lead to NBA success long term. He's a true believer in "the right way." Fanatical even.
> 
> ...


No sheet. Honestly, I can't see the PLAYERS being the ones who take the blame in all of this, save Chandler and Sweetney for not working out. My blame list looks like this:

1. John Paxson
2. Tyson Chandler
3. Michael Sweetney
4. Scott Skiles

That's IT. Everyone else is playing pretty much along the lines of what they did last season. You want to blame Kirk Hinrich for not bringing hot chocolate and donuts to the officials Pax? WTF?


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## Salvaged Ship (Jul 10, 2002)

*Re: Pax's "tough love": Show some mental toughness*



kukoc4ever said:


> IF YOU REALLY WANTED THIS TEAM TO WIN BALL GAMES THIS SEASON PAXSON, YOU SHOULD NOT HAVE TRADED EDDY CURRY AND ANTONIO DAVIS!!!!!


The team we traded them to has a worse record than we do, along with loads of long term contracts for stiffs. 

Bottom line, Paxson does not want to give up the cap space/draft picks and potential big jump next year on a desperation trade that slightly improves us short term. Unless the trade is part of a long term solution that will make us contenders in the future, he will not do it. He is also frustrated with the team record this year, and doesn't want to come out and say this years roster is worse than the previous season. 

We are potentially set up well for the future. If we get nothing out of this next summer, then I would be upset. But I do understand the logic. I really would not have felt comfortable with him signing Curry and Chandler to 10 mil a year each, even if there were no heart issues. We may have the same record now, or worse, if Curry was on this team. Who knows? We need established players, not question marks. Curry and Chandler were big question marks. With Curry's heart issue, he got rid of him and kept Chandler. Did he keep the wrong one? Maybe. Might have been best letting both go, but all of us would have been screaming. Roll of the dice.

Unfortunately, this season is most likely down to player development. If we get two high draft picks and loads of cap space, Paxson has no excuse next year. 

And people who miss Krause???? Geez..... We would of killed for a 15-22 record a few years ago. No way Paxson would have traded Brand for Chandler. And someone said Krause handled himself professionally in the public eye? The guy was thought of as a joke, a babbler, a liar. I would rather listen to paint dry than Krause speak. Paxson lets some emotion hang out, but he is articulate and pretty straight forward. Do not compare Krasue and Pax regarding PR skills. Krause is one of the worst I have ever seen in sports.


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## Pippenatorade (Dec 29, 2005)

*Re: Pax's "tough love": Show some mental toughness*



Salvaged Ship said:


> The team we traded them to has a worse record than we do, along with loads of long term contracts for stiffs.


Trades can be bad for both sides. First, what do Eddy Curry and Antonio Davis have to do with contracts given out by Laden? Second, who is 4-12 in their last 16? The trade can be bad for us and bad for Eddy and Antonio. One team out of the following won 47 games:

2005 Chicago Bulls
2006 Chicago Bulls
2006 New York Knicks

When the year is over, that will still be true. Sorry, but being better than New York doesn't do it for me. We were TONS better than New York LAST YEAR. I want to be better than Indiana, Detroit, etc. Who cares if we are better than New York if we still suck? BTW I don't know if Pax fans get this. Some good ones do, but the ones still in denial don't. There are no throwaway seasons in the NBA. It's not like we just lost MJ, Scottie and Dennis. We were good last year, had no reason not to be good this year, and we SUCK right now.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

*Re: Pax's "tough love": Show some mental toughness*

Having Curry on this team right now? We would still see complaining. Both curry and Chandler have been hurt this season. Our record would not be any different than it is now. In fact it may even be worse. 

Pax is challenging the players to give it their all. Nothing wrong with that IMO.


----------



## narek (Jul 29, 2005)

*Re: Pax's "tough love": Show some mental toughness*

There's more on this (and with more of what Pax and Skiles said as usual), in the Herald and Sun-times, and a few other things, too:

http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/bulls.asp

http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/bulls.asp?id=144055

http://www.suntimes.com/output/bulls/cst-spt-bullnt181.html


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## Salvaged Ship (Jul 10, 2002)

*Re: Pax's "tough love": Show some mental toughness*



Pippenatorade said:


> Trades can be bad for both sides. First, what do Eddy Curry and Antonio Davis have to do with contracts given out by Laden? Second, who is 4-12 in their last 16? The trade can be bad for us and bad for Eddy and Antonio. One team out of the following won 47 games:
> 
> 2005 Chicago Bulls
> 2006 Chicago Bulls
> ...


Isiah has brought in a few of those lousy contracts. Curry, Crawford, James. I don't think any of those are worth the bling they are getting, and they are all locked up for years. My opinion, but no way I would take that roster or Isiah Thomas. He stinks.

I agree there should be no throw away years, and if the heart issue of Curry didn't happen we probably would have the same team. It was a decision Paxson made, I do agree with it, and we are certainly suffering for it currently. I still believe what Curry brings to the win/loss column, forget stats, will never be worth 10 mil a year. Again, my opinion. Chandler is definitely not worth it, but that is another story. Who thought he would regress this much?

People want Paxson to do something. I guess they want him to panic and pull a Krause. Krause panicked, and in turn traded two future all-stars, one who ended up as a defensive player of the year, for a bum in Jalen Rose. I would rather wait a year and not trade one of these young and talented players and see what we can do with that cap space and draft picks. If an opportunity to make a deal for a player who fits in long term with us makes sense, then go ahead and give up somebody. But don't pull a Krause and trade for a declining bum and give up a player/players and a valuable pick like Krause did. I don't want Pierce if it costs us two of our young players and one or both of those picks. I will wait. Pierce would give us the same he is giving Boston now, not many wins.

I will expect a lot next year from this team. But this year, with the circumstances that happened with Curry and our current roster, I do not want something done out of panic that will get us a few games closer to .500 and the 7th seed. We will be stuck there and lose the flexibility we possess this offseason. I am frustrated with losing as well. I just want it back like the glory days, even if we sacrifice short term.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

*Re: Pax's "tough love": Show some mental toughness*



Salvaged Ship said:


> Isiah has brought in a few of those lousy contracts. Curry, Crawford, James. I don't think any of those are worth the bling they are getting, and they are all locked up for years. My opinion, but no way I would take that roster or Isiah Thomas. He stinks.
> 
> I agree there should be no throw away years, and if the heart issue of Curry didn't happen we probably would have the same team. It was a decision Paxson made, I do agree with it, and we are certainly suffering for it currently. I still believe what Curry brings to the win/loss column, forget stats, will never be worth 10 mil a year. Again, my opinion. Chandler is definitely not worth it, but that is another story. Who thought he would regress this much?
> 
> ...


Very nice post!


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

*Re: Pax's "tough love": Show some mental toughness*



truebluefan said:


> Having Curry on this team right now? We would still see complaining. Both curry and Chandler have been hurt this season. Our record would not be any different than it is now. In fact it may even be worse.


Huh? 

Even accounting for Curry missing some games, I'm pretty bewildered by your taking this stance. Definitely as bad, possibly worse, and not possibly better? 

That doesn't make any sense.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: Pax's "tough love": Show some mental toughness*

I wonder if Pax took Skiles advice and learned all the ref's names when he chased them into the locker room and cursed them out?

-------

(Anyone think maybe that was Skiles calling Pax out for his goonish behavior?)


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

*Re: Pax's "tough love": Show some mental toughness*



Salvaged Ship said:


> Bottom line, Paxson does not want to give up the cap space/draft picks and potential big jump next year on a desperation trade that slightly improves us short term.


As we get closer to the moment of truth and the funnel narrows, the potential for a big jump next year seems less and less likely.

Pax apparently isn't going to get the most out of Tim Thomas's expiring contract by using it in a trade.

The Class of 2006 Free Agents are simply not difference-makers. Not at the top of the class, anyway. Al Harrington and Joel Pryzbilla and their ilk aren't taking us to the promised land.

The 2006 Draft may be deeper than originally hoped, but it's always a crap shoot, our picks look to be in that hazy, nebulous, hit-or-miss 8-12 range, and the picks won't help right away anyway.

I'm not seeing how trading just SOME of those assets -- the Thomas deal, maybe Gordon or Hinrich, maybe a pick -- for a proven stud multiple All-Star having a career year represents "desperation." 

I feel the opposite way -- not making a significant move to salvage the season would be pretty desperate.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

*Re: Pax's "tough love": Show some mental toughness*

mmmmmmmmmmmm...smelts...


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

*Re: Pax's "tough love": Show some mental toughness*

Locker room material for the Bulls:

http://nbahoopsonline.com/History/Year/05-06/refs.html

#6 Jim Clark
#7 Bernie Fryer
#8 Luis Grillo
#9 Derrick Stafford 
#10 Ron Garretson
#11 Phil Robinson
#12 Violet Palmer
#13 Monty McCutchen
#14 Joe DeRosa
#15 Bennett Salvatore
#17 Joe Crawford
#18 Mark Wunderlich
#19 James Capers
#20 Jess Kersey
#21 Tim Donaghy
#22 Bill Spooner
#23 Jason Phillips
#24 Mike Callahan
#25 Tony Brothers
#26 Bob Delaney
#27 Dick Bavetta
#28 Tommy Nunez
#29 Steve Javie
#30 Tony Brown
#31 Scott Wall
#32 Eddie F. Rush
#33 Sean Corbin
#34 Marc Davis
#35 Jack Nies
#36 David Jones
#37 Anthony Jordan
#38 Michael Smith
#39 Kevin Fehr
#40 Leon Wood
#41 Ken Mauer 
#42 Eric Lewis
#43 Dan Crawford
#44 Ron Olesiak 
#45 Joe Forte
#46 Matt Boland
#47 Bennie Adams
#48 Scott Foster
#49 Tom Washington 
#50 Olandis Poole
#51 Leroy Richardson
#52 Pat Fraher
#53 Robbie Robinson
#54 Derrick Collins
#55 Bill Kennedy
#56 Mark Ayotte
#57 Greg Willard
#58 Zach Zarba
#59 Gary Zielinski
#60 David Guthrie
#61 Courtney Kirkland
#62 Michael Henderson 
#63 Derek Richardson
#64 Eli Roe
#65 Sean Wright
#71 Rodney Mott 
#73 Ed Malloy

Learn it. Know it. Live it.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

*Re: Pax's "tough love": Show some mental toughness*



Salvaged Ship said:


> The team we traded them to has a worse record than we do, along with loads of long term contracts for stiffs.


What does that have to do with our team? We were kicking butt with our current bunch, Curry and Davis. There is no good reason to think we would not have been good again with that group.



> Bottom line, Paxson does not want to give up the cap space/draft picks and potential big jump next year on a desperation trade that slightly improves us short term.


He'd rather make a desperation FA offer to Al Harrington, best case. Or just decide to continue sucking. 



> Unless the trade is part of a long term solution that will make us contenders in the future, he will not do it. He is also frustrated with the team record this year, and doesn't want to come out and say this years roster is worse than the previous season.


He does not want to say that because he made it that way.



> We are potentially set up well for the future. If we get nothing out of this next summer, then I would be upset. But I do understand the logic. I really would not have felt comfortable with him signing Curry and Chandler to 10 mil a year each, even if there were no heart issues. We may have the same record now, or worse, if Curry was on this team. Who knows? We need established players, not question marks. Curry and Chandler were big question marks. With Curry's heart issue, he got rid of him and kept Chandler. Did he keep the wrong one? Maybe. Might have been best letting both go, but all of us would have been screaming. Roll of the dice.


Given the solid play from Curry this season, to this point, Paxson clearly kept the wrong one. Even worse, the upset a nice, young, winning apple cart by trading our two big men with big man bodies. Now we're lost. 

As for this summer, we all know who is out there in the market. Who do you think Paxson should dump the Cap Space on? Wilcox? Przybilla? Baby Al (do we really need another tweener????) ? 

Heart issues? Does anyone buy this line anymore? Zeke is a *****, but he summed up the situation pretty well with his quote.

A much better "roll of the dice" would have been to decide to side with the vast majority of doctors and resign Curry and keep AD, and build from a proven winning base. Now we're a loser yet again. 



> Unfortunately, this season is most likely down to player development. If we get two high draft picks and loads of cap space, Paxson has no excuse next year.


Paxson has no excuse now, IMO, other than some ridiculously spun perspective on the Curry situation, that Sam Smith seems more than willing to provide for whatever reason.

Paxson is coming unglued. Scrambling around the UC, ranting at officials. Talking about refs not knowing Hinrich’s last name. Grasping, clawing at any possible excuse (NO EXCUSES). He’s selling out his players by calling them out. These players are playing hard and getting the most out of their talent IMO. Paxson should realize that and lay off. Look in the mirror Paxson. Don’t blame Hinrich, Deng, Nocioni, Gordon, Songalia, Sweetney… these are all your players for one… and they are playing well enough to hang with veteran teams. Very young teams don't usually win. It was Paxson's decision to dump two of our veteran leaders in THE HAWK and AD. As for Chandler, it was Paxson's decision to lock him up. Chandler didn't have any other offers. Paxson could have put the screws to him, tried to sign him for less or for fewer years. He didn't. He wanted Chandler locked up. He must have felt Chandler could thrive without any other big men around him. Once again, he appears to have miscalculated.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

*Re: Pax's "tough love": Show some mental toughness*



kukoc4ever said:


> What does that have to do with our team? We were kicking butt with our current bunch, Curry and Davis. There is no good reason to think we would not have been good again with that group.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Good post I tend to agree. I would further add that if you keep hollering about needing more effort from your players when they are already playing balls to the wall sooner or later you will lose them and they will say, "forget this".


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## SPIN DOCTOR (Oct 31, 2002)

*Re: Pax's "tough love": Show some mental toughness*

Pax needs to heed his own advice, and accept the group he has created.

Maybe he should start to GM HARDER the next 30 days.

Most people like him personally in spite of his mistakes, that can change "in the blink of an eye" in Chicago.


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## SausageKingofChicago (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: Pax's "tough love": Show some mental toughness*

I made comment some weeks ago that the biggest issue with the team this season is that it lacks leadership

Skiles is right - you have to build relationships and develop proper communication skills to solve issues 

I thought that's why we drafted educated 4 year college players and players from The School of Hard Knocks

I am with ScottMay on this one where he queries why :

A. The Coaching Staff have to encourage these pearls of wisdom which should be second nature 

B. Why its taken 2 years + to allow these situation to fester and to let the officials reciprocate the unprofessionalism and discourtesy we give them by not even knowing our player's names

What a piss poor and completely bush league way of allowing this to occur - and Management as much as they players deserve a kick in the arse for this

I am not advocating chumming it up and brown nosing but the basic little things such as this and being willing and able to communicate to help your cause only exacaberate an already poor opinion they have for our players that are seen as less than talented on a fundamentally flawed team 

I would hate to think that this occurence is symptomatic of a beaten up, chewed up and spat out resignation that already exists with what was/is supposed to be Club Jib.

The only natural leader this team has got is Chris Duhon who was openly commented that he doesn't feel "comfortable" given he is only a 2nd year player . In addition to which , he is not a starter on this team and nor should he be with the more talented Hinrich and Gordon in front of him.

So where is the leadership going to come from 

We need bigs in free agency obviously 

Joel , Nene , Chris Wilcox ?

Neh.

Through the draft ? 

Not likely - at least not straight away

If Pax and Skiles are honest with themselves ...leadership does not exist on this team and this needs to be addressed as part of their long term strategy in building this team.

And no short term fixes in bringing back AD for the specific purpose of filling this role 

Leadership , as much as adding quality bigs to our frontline , are the two biggest issues confronting this team 

And if you accept that and also accept that Kirk has been pushed to the front to "lead" this team - he's has failed . He's not a leader's A hole.


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## SausageKingofChicago (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: Pax's "tough love": Show some mental toughness*



ace20004u said:


> Good post I tend to agree. I would further add that if you keep hollering about needing more effort from your players when they are already playing balls to the wall sooner or later you will lose them and they will say, "forget this".


Agree. 

He needs to be publicly supporting his players right now 

Not being well handled


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## Pippenatorade (Dec 29, 2005)

*Re: Pax's "tough love": Show some mental toughness*



SausageKingofChicago said:


> I made comment some weeks ago that the biggest issue with the team this season is that it lacks leadership
> 
> Skiles is right - you have to build relationships and develop proper communication skills to solve issues
> 
> ...


Antonio Davis should be brought back at the right salary IMO. He was slowly but surely instilling the Pacers mentality on this team last year. And, IMO, it's the best mentality for this team because this isn't the Bulls of a Jordan, a Pippen and ten role players. This is a team that has to attempt to win games from all angles, like the old Pacers of Davis, Davis, Miller, Smits, Schrempf, McKey etc. 

Davis on a 3 year deal for 7.5 million sounds great to me. And then we wait and chase Magloire (or a host of other guys in summer 2007). IMO the commonly held opinion here as recent as two weeks ago that we can become contenders with ANYONE in THIS SUMMER's draft or free agent market within the next two seasons was rather naive. 

Also, it wouldn't hurt for this organization to have Pippen and Jordan, and even Horace Grant more involved. What is Grant doing these days? Like he couldn't be brought in to specialize in helping Tyson out (he might teach him how to "WORK OUT" oh no!). Where are the guys that built this franchise? Magic is always around the Lakers. Where is Michael? Scottie?


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## lgtwins (May 18, 2004)

*Re: Pax's "tough love": Show some mental toughness*

All through the last summer and to this day, all I see is that no matter what he does a certain person can never win. 

What really changed sicne the summer? 

We all thought we would regress somewhat this year. Althouh few thought we would suck this much.

Few thought Chandler would suck this bad without another big body.

We all thought that the true value or verdict of Curry trade would be unfold till we know what our pick would be like or what we are gong to do with it.

We all thought that even if we make the playoff, it would be another the first round exit, just more playoff expreience for the young crew.

Seriously what really changed since the start of the season ? Why all of sudden demand Paxon to do something or predict that he will panick and do something stupid.

I was ready to suffer soem growing pain this season (admittingly not this bad, though) and don't want to do any stupid trade this time of the year.

Regardless of what some think here, cap room and picks are our best asset as of now, and nobody get their hands on those two unless we get sure thing as in superstar in return.

If nothing happended even during the off season, then so be it. I am willing to wait for 1007 FA and contend with two picks till that time. (On another note, I am hot for Morrison and gay regardless of our logjam at SF.)


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## Pippenatorade (Dec 29, 2005)

*Re: Pax's "tough love": Show some mental toughness*



lgtwins said:


> Althouh few thought we would suck this much.


I did :biggrin:. Better yet, I'm saying now that we actually haven't seen the worst yet. 



> Few thought Chandler would suck this bad without another big body.


I did! lol



> We all thought that the true value or verdict of Curry trade would be unfold till we know what our pick would be like or what we are gong to do with it.


I didn't. The NBA draft has gotten weaker and weaker for years with exceptions like the peak year of 2003. Now, we're entering the first draft with high school players not in it (which even if you don't want one, a high school player can be selected before your pick and push the guy you DO want down). To me when I looked at the trade I knew we had to get something besides what we'll get with the draft pick. Because right now, the pick is looking like Shelden Williams.

Shelden Williams and Mike Sweetney or Eddy Curry and Antonio Davis? Hmmm.

With Thomas a goner, that's what it looks like. And after that a pick swap and two second rounders just doesn't do it for me. 



> We all thought that even if we make the playoff, it would be another the first round exit, just more playoff expreience for the young crew.


This year's team never had a chance to make the playoffs. They may be close now, but they won't make it. 



> Regardless of what some think here, cap room and picks are our best asset as of now, and nobody get their hands on those two unless we get sure thing as in superstar in return.


Capspace and picks in a bad bad free agent class and bad draft. Nobody will even offer a star for the "assets" we have. 



> If nothing happended even during the off season, then so be it. I am willing to wait for 1007 FA and contend with two picks till that time. (On another note, I am hot for Morrison and gay regardless of our logjam at SF.)


We're now giving Pax two seasons off. Great. I'm gonna go cry.


----------



## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

*Re: Pax's "tough love": Show some mental toughness*

well the thing is lgtwins, there were many here who accepted that while we may not have the record that we did last year, at least we'd improve. this was the bar that was set by paxson himself at the end of the season last year. see the john paxson answers thread for that exact quote.

but what is happening now, where we have guys like kirk, who is busting his *** now that he's out of that horrible slump, being told, well, it's cause you don't take the time to know the refs? i mean what more is he supposed to do?

are we really expecting that much more from songaila, du, noc or 'fella? imo, they're giving us what they can give.

i've already said in this thread that i hope chandler and sweetney start playing better, so no need to debate that.

what i don't like is the way, the minute there is any hint of adversity, skiles and paxson look everywhere but IN THE MIRROR and try and shift the attention off of their own actions.

if pax wants the guys to make plays, ask yourself, where does that start? it starts with skiles. and it starts in practice.

showtyme posted something very very wise in the stephen graham thread that may have been missed since it was posted late last night. but he said, and i 100% agree that this team needs LESS berating and MORE educating.

teach them how to foul less. teach them to stop using their hands and to move their feet. teach them techniques to draw the foul. teach them, they are young, they will listen.

i really believe that they want to win. but they need help. and little by little, things are creeping into the players' postgame comments about how WE DON'T HAVE THE SIZE to compete night in and night out.

one day in the paper you have skiles wondering aloud how in TWENTY years he's never seen a guy like hinrich not be able to get to the line, but the very next day, oh it's cause kirk hasn't sent violet palmer a valentine? 

give me a break.


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## SausageKingofChicago (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: Pax's "tough love": Show some mental toughness*



Pippenatorade said:


> Antonio Davis should be brought back at the right salary IMO. He was slowly but surely instilling the Pacers mentality on this team last year. And, IMO, it's the best mentality for this team because this isn't the Bulls of a Jordan, a Pippen and ten role players. This is a team that has to attempt to win games from all angles, like the old Pacers of Davis, Davis, Miller, Smits, Schrempf, McKey etc.
> 
> Davis on a 3 year deal for 7.5 million sounds great to me. And then we wait and chase Magloire (or a host of other guys in summer 2007). IMO the commonly held opinion here as recent as two weeks ago that we can become contenders with ANYONE in THIS SUMMER's draft or free agent market within the next two seasons was rather naive.
> 
> Also, it wouldn't hurt for this organization to have Pippen and Jordan, and even Horace Grant more involved. What is Grant doing these days? Like he couldn't be brought in to specialize in helping Tyson out (he might teach him how to "WORK OUT" oh no!). Where are the guys that built this franchise? Magic is always around the Lakers. Where is Michael? Scottie?


All short term fixes 

Where is the long term leadership plan for this team when AD hangs it up even if he's capable of going around again 

To lead you have to be able to hold your own on the floor and play meaningful minutes not come out and wave you hat to the crowd and play like a busted arse for 10 to 15 minutes a night and then hold court in the locker room 

Guys like AD and Griffin are supplementary / supporting deputies 

And God Bless the dynasty but we have to find a new identity with people in the organisation

Relying on people from the past is a crutch 

Fresh blood . New people . New ideas . Less married to the fairytale and the Once were Warriors BS


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## SausageKingofChicago (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: Pax's "tough love": Show some mental toughness*



mizenkay said:


> but what is happening now, where we have guys like kirk, who is busting his *** now that he's out of that horrible slump, being told, well, it's cause you don't take the time to know the refs? i mean what more is he supposed to do?


Love Kirk's effort . Can't fault him for that 

But do you really think he's a leader miz?

I am not faulting him for that either . Management , desperate for identity , has symbolised Kirk as a means of how we are supposed to play basketball

But to lead , you need to vocalise - you have to have a certain wherewithal and you have to do the little things that when it gets down to it are big things in the realm of responsibility /ownership that you feel is rightfully yours.

Do you honestly think this is Kirk?

I don't.

I don't think he seems like a guy that gives a rats arse about people skills - he's just there to do his damndest and play ball and god bless him for that 

On a strong vet team he would be a stand out 

But Management was hoping he was going to be something else and he ain't have invested a lot in symbolising him and he's fallen /falling short of the required leadership expected from him



> one day in the paper you have skiles wondering aloud how in TWENTY years he's never seen a guy like hinrich not be able to get to the line, but the very next day, oh it's cause kirk hasn't sent violet palmer a valentine?


I don't see the inconsistency 

I think the two are inextricably linked and its a valid point 

And Kirk needs to take responsbility for that but so does Mgt for just letting it slide

Its a valid point and no one is managing it properly


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

*Re: Pax's "tough love": Show some mental toughness*



SausageKingofChicago said:


> I don't think he seems like a guy that gives a rats arse about people skills - he's just there to do his damndest and play ball and god bless him for that
> 
> On a strong vet team he would be a stand out
> 
> But Management was hoping he was going to be something else and he ain't have invested a lot in symbolising him and he's fallen /falling short of the required leadership expected from him


yes. i agree with you here. i was mainly pointing out his *effort on the court*. he leads by that example. he is not a vocal guy. he never really has been. they should have known that when they drafted him. 





> I don't see the inconsistency
> 
> I think the two are inextricably linked and its a valid point
> 
> ...


i think the inconsistency, for me at least, is that this type of comment is a little late in showing up as a REASON for why kirk, and the rest of the team, fails to get to the line.

they fail to get to the line, because they don't attack the basket. not because, necessarily, they haven't learned the names of the refs. 

you're right about it not being managed correctly.


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## SausageKingofChicago (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: Pax's "tough love": Show some mental toughness*



mizenkay said:


> i think the inconsistency, for me at least, is that this type of comment is a little late in showing up as a REASON for why kirk, and the rest of the team, fails to get to the line.
> 
> they fail to get to the line, because they don't attack the basket. not because, necessarily, they haven't learned the names of the refs.


yeah fair enough .agree.

the only thing i would add is that they don't attack the basket because they have no confidence of getting the play called and so therefore its perceived as a lower percentage option and we revert to... a lower percentage jump shooting team , which , on a team with no consistent post performer ..in a word - sucks.

But if they have no confidence in getting the play called then this is about managing and building the right type of dialogue in the relationships that must be built with the officials 

That's where I think the links are

And this is about leadership , being proactive and taking some responsibility for yourself and your team


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

*Re: Pax's "tough love": Show some mental toughness*



SausageKingofChicago said:


> yeah fair enough .agree.
> 
> the only thing i would add is that they don't attack the basket because they have no confidence of getting the play called and so therefore its perceived as a lower percentage option and we revert to... a lower percentage jump shooting team , which , on a team with no consistent post performer ..in a word - sucks.
> 
> ...


ok, i see exactly what you mean. and i agree. and when you have someone like kirk who just accepts, in his third year, that he's not going to get the call and he's just going to play thru it, then he needs to get an attitude adjustment pronto.

but if you'd seen that denver game, i mean honestly, he was doing just about all he could possibly do, and still, no respect. 

skiles would have been better served to keep this in-house and to have discussed it privately with kirk and the team rather than take it, once again, to the press. that is what i don't like. 

it's bad form.


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## SausageKingofChicago (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: Pax's "tough love": Show some mental toughness*

And if getting to the line and lack of leadership is what is really hampering this team then it only strengthens the absolute need to acquire Paul Pierce who is clearly out in the open 

Fear of Jalen Rose part 2 by Paxson is nothing short of cowardice in the decision making process

Practise is hugely important but Game 7 practises are unrealistic over the grind of a season 

But if we had the opportunity to take Pierce, Davis and Blount was thrown in we would be stark raving mad not to do it

If we could keep Kirk ,Chris , Luol and Tyson with anything and everything else up for sale then I would be prepared to give up Ben , Andres and the draft picks if this was sufficient to get a deal done that would enable Boston to start over with these guys added to Perkins, Jefferson , Green , Allen and West and their own inevitable lottery pick .

Boston needs to start over 

We need age and guys that attack the basket and live at the line ( Pierce and Davis )

In fact I predict that you with these guys you would see a much different and productive Kirk Hinrich who would be able to piggy back off these guys in being able to get to the line more 

And if / when that happens you have a nice tradeable piece in Davis to make way for Deng to try and add further depth upfront 

Do this trade now and commit our cap space and we're better off next summer in being able to add exceptions to this group

I actually think its probably the play to make if we can do it I just don't know that our Mgt could divorce themselves from their dogma and live with it


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## BullSoxChicagosFinest (Oct 22, 2005)

*Re: Pax's "tough love": Show some mental toughness*

So, was Duhon's scuffle against the Knicks a response to Pax's comments? I'm guessing this thread is about the same comments, but I heard Pax on the radio talking about being tough and standing up for oneself and teammates a couple days ago.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: Pax's "tough love": Show some mental toughness*



BullSoxChicagosFinest said:


> So, was Duhon's scuffle against the Knicks a response to Pax's comments? I'm guessing this thread is about the same comments, but I heard Pax on the radio talking about being tough and standing up for oneself and teammates a couple days ago.


I wondered that myself


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

*Re: Pax's "tough love": Show some mental toughness*

http://www.nba.com/news/Paxsonfined_060118.html


paxson was fined *$15,000* for his little outburst on the refs.


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## narek (Jul 29, 2005)

*Re: Pax's "tough love": Show some mental toughness*



mizenkay said:


> http://www.nba.com/news/Paxsonfined_060118.html
> 
> 
> paxson was fined *$15,000* for his little outburst on the refs.


I wonder who is going to pay? Pax is supposed to be on Boers and Bernstein today at around 2:15, 2:20 - I'm sure that will be one of the topics of conversation.


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## McBulls (Apr 28, 2005)

*Re: Pax's "tough love": Show some mental toughness*



mizenkay said:


> http://www.nba.com/news/Paxsonfined_060118.html
> 
> 
> paxson was fined *$15,000* for his little outburst on the refs.



That was a pretty good investment. I don't think the Bulls would have won without the unusual generosity of the referees during the NY game. 

The dramatic difference between the calls made in the game in NY and yesterday's games illustrates the arbitrary nature of officiating in the NBA. Apparently squeeky wheels get greased -- you have to complain a lot to be treated fairly -- at least until you become a "star". Fortunately, NY had no stars last night.


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## RoRo (Aug 21, 2002)

*Re: Pax's "tough love": Show some mental toughness*



McBulls said:


> That was a pretty good investment. I don't think the Bulls would have won without the unusual generosity of the referees during the NY game.
> 
> The dramatic difference between the calls made in the game in NY and yesterday's games illustrates the arbitrary nature of officiating in the NBA. Apparently squeeky wheels get greased -- you have to complain a lot to be treated fairly -- at least until you become a "star". Fortunately, NY had no stars last night.


ahh the difference a win makes. in terms of attempts we hit our average (considering the ot). we normally get 22 fta and took 27 for the whole game.

the knicks were without their top slasher in marbury (good for 7 fta's). but the key with him is he helps get the team in the foul bonus alot earlier in a quarter. the effect is everyone else gets a couple extra free throw attempts. the nate robinson possessions in the ot, those might not have been turnovers if marbury were playing. steph might have drawn some contact first. but who knows, it's all educated guesstimations 

if we lost this game, the three point attempts that jamal and nate took and got fouled on would be called Hugh Hollins part 2 and 3. :dead:


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## Wynn (Jun 3, 2002)

*Re: Pax's "tough love": Show some mental toughness*



McBulls said:


> That was a pretty good investment. I don't think the Bulls would have won without the unusual generosity of the referees during the NY game.
> 
> The dramatic difference between the calls made in the game in NY and yesterday's games illustrates the arbitrary nature of officiating in the NBA. Apparently squeeky wheels get greased -- you have to complain a lot to be treated fairly -- at least until you become a "star". Fortunately, NY had no stars last night.


Interestingly enough, though Kirk had 18, 8, & 8, with 3 steals -- which would demonstrate that he was particularly active -- he shot 0 foul shots. Maybe the refs heard the message, and sent one back....


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

*Punishment dished out by league. [SERIOUS PUNISHMENT!]*

We all know what happened, and we all know what effect it had on yesterdays game. Now, the NBA dishes out their punishment.

We all know what happened, was understandable, but was still very wrong and he shouldn't have done it. You just don't do this, no matter if its the right thing or not, its against the rules.

Without further ado, here is the punishment by the league.



> NEW YORK (AP) -- Chicago Bulls general manager John Paxson was fined $15,000 by the NBA on Thursday for verbally abusing referees after a loss to Denver.
> 
> Paxson tried to confront the officials after the Nuggets beat the Bulls 97-94 Monday night in Chicago.
> 
> The Nuggets attempted 41 foul shots to the Bulls' 12 in the game.


http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ap-bulls-paxsonfined&prov=ap&type=lgns


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