# Sonics @ Raptors, Nov. 13th



## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

<center>
















*Seattle Sonics* (1-4) @ *Toronto Raptors* (0-5)
November 13th, 2005, 1:00PM EST
Rogers SportsNet Ontario

<IMG WIDTH=100 HEIGHT=150 BORDER=0 ALT="RIDNOUR, LUKE" TITLE="RIDNOUR, LUKE" SRC="/img/headshots/100x150/sonics/RIDNOUR, LUKE.jpg"> <IMG WIDTH=100 HEIGHT=150 BORDER=0 ALT="ALLEN, RAY" TITLE="ALLEN, RAY" SRC="/img/headshots/100x150/sonics/ALLEN, RAY.jpg"> <IMG WIDTH=100 HEIGHT=150 BORDER=0 ALT="LEWIS, RASHARD" TITLE="LEWIS, RASHARD" SRC="/img/headshots/100x150/sonics/LEWIS, RASHARD.jpg"> <IMG WIDTH=100 HEIGHT=150 BORDER=0 ALT="EVANS, REGGIE" TITLE="EVANS, REGGIE" SRC="/img/headshots/100x150/sonics/EVANS, REGGIE.jpg"> <IMG WIDTH=100 HEIGHT=150 BORDER=0 ALT="POTAPENKO, VITALY" TITLE="POTAPENKO, VITALY" SRC="/img/headshots/100x150/sonics/POTAPENKO, VITALY.jpg">
*Luke Ridnour, Ray Allen, Rashard Lewis, Reggie Evans, Vitaly Potapenko*

<IMG WIDTH=100 HEIGHT=150 BORDER=0 ALT="JAMES, MIKE" TITLE="JAMES, MIKE" SRC="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v129/speedythief/raptors/mjames0.jpg"> <IMG WIDTH=100 HEIGHT=150 BORDER=0 ALT="ROSE, JALEN" TITLE="ROSE, JALEN" SRC="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v129/speedythief/raptors/jrose0.jpg"> <img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v129/speedythief/raptors/mpeterson0.jpg" alt="Image hosted by Photobucket.com"> <IMG WIDTH=100 HEIGHT=150 BORDER=0 ALT="BOSH, CHRIS" TITLE="BOSH, CHRIS" SRC="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v129/speedythief/raptors/cbosh0.jpg"> <img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v129/speedythief/raptors/aawilliams0.jpg" alt="Image hosted by Photobucket.com">
*Mike James, Jalen Rose, Morris Peterson, Chris Bosh, Aaron Williams*</center>


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## undefined_playa (Oct 23, 2005)

If we don't win that game...i'm gonna cry


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## Q8i (Oct 23, 2004)

I Have Feelings That The Raptors R Gon' Get This Game.. Cuz This Is The First Game Imma Watch For The Raptors.. HaHaHaHa

lOl, Atleast I Hope So


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## BBB (Jan 19, 2005)

It's time for a win.


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

BBB said:


> It's time for a win.


 True, but I'm not holding my breath.


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## southeasy (Jun 11, 2003)

I hope morris peterson steps up.


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## Marvin Williams Jr. (Dec 18, 2004)

Why is Potapenko darker than Aa. Williams?


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## Rhubarb (Mar 19, 2005)

Sonics are really lacking support for Ray apart from Shard right now.

Easier said than done, but if we limit anyone of Ray or Shard, it should be smooth-ish sailing. Just hope we don't get sucked into jacking up the longball play after play...


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

Why do I have a feeling that Ray Ray will go off for 30 points?


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

Should be a very competitive game. If Evans can be hindered on the boards (easier said than done), our frontline should be superior. 

Mo Pete in the starting lineup. He's got his work cut out for him guarding Ray. Lewis and Radman have some serious advantages over Jalen so look for Graham to get a decent amount of minutes off the bench.

Will Mitchell let Hoffa get some time against the weaker Seattle centers? Man I hope so.

Will Charlie V break out and have a big game? I think he'll play better.

Bosh will pick up his game.

All the rookies off the bench or could Calderon start vs Ridnour. 

Wish I could watch this one live.

Go Raps. These guys need to get the winless monkey off their back.


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## madman (Oct 20, 2003)

not going to happen today, the raps are gonna fall to 0-6 and it wont be close


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## -James- (Apr 27, 2004)

madman said:


> not going to happen today, the raps are gonna fall to 0-6 and it wont be close


 Yeah I'm scared we're gonna get blasted today. Seattle is much better than they've played and I get the feeling that all of Ray, Rashard, and Little Luke will break out of it. I think we'll sweep the Sixers next week though.


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## Junkyard Dog13 (Aug 9, 2003)

Grahem should be starting and Rose should be coming off the bench.


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## adhir1 (Dec 28, 2004)

i think we are going to get this one...Bosh is due for a really big performance...career high anyone??? and i think Charlie is about ready for a big game...as well...


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## Divine Spammer (Jul 11, 2005)

Junkyard Dog13 said:


> Grahem should be starting and Rose should be coming off the bench.


True. However, common sense doesn't prevail here.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

PLEASE GOD WIN! we cant go 82-0


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## ansoncarter (Dec 22, 2004)

give Charlie some touches for a change, and it should be an easy win imo.


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

Why the hell isn't Graham starting? He's been our best wing player this year.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

Collison getting the better of Aaron. 

Seems like plenty of jumpshots. 

Petro gets time with the Sonics. Hoffa gets none with the Raps.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

Bosh with the rebound and dunk. 

Mike James scoring well in the first.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

Only down by 4 but sounds like we're getting outplayed. 

Mo not exactly off to a great start. 

Curious to see if Hoffa even gets a minute in this game. Figures to be tight so I wouldn't bet on it.

Graham comes in and matches with Rashard.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

Calderon and James together in the backcourt.

James with 11 in the first.

Joey draws the charge.


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## JS03 (Jan 5, 2005)

Awww. this ain't live for me..


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## ansoncarter (Dec 22, 2004)

we swing the ball to get it to bosh, it isn't there, so mop gives up on it entirely, swings it to Mike James who chucks a shot with a hand in his face....and Swirsky and Jack praise the play??? say we moved it well?? 

annoying


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## ansoncarter (Dec 22, 2004)

and why do we ignore Bosh the second he starts heating up???

and why wouldn't Mike James feed Charlie that play where he was wide open until he wasn't anymore?

Charlie and Bosh need to physically attack Mop, James and Rose next practice and go "Get us the ball or more beatings!!!" and Sam should back them up and do that thing where he just raises his hands an looks all "what can I say"

frigging James and mo are annoying. Charlie and Bosh get ignored so much it's stupid


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## madman (Oct 20, 2003)

All in all not a bad half, i am surprised we are still in it with Lewis getting 20 in the first 2 quarters 

nice to see CV having a big game, Bosh is playing well below the radar


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## ansoncarter (Dec 22, 2004)

CV is playing the same as he did the first 5 games


guy has some impressive offensive talent


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## DarkMagician (Nov 13, 2005)

*I'm a banned member. Sorry for wasting all your time.*


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

This game has been great. I'd be satisfied even if we lose, just because our young players are bringing so much energy to the table right now.


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## TRON (Feb 29, 2004)

Wow, Rashard should be out of the game right now, that was a BS call


Refs are giving this one to Seatle
40 F****** free throws for the Sonics in Toronto :curse:


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## TRON (Feb 29, 2004)

Nice to see Charlie V out there in place of Jalen in the 4th

Sam I applaude that decision :clap: 

113-110 Sonics 
1:30 to go 

Calderon/James/Mo/CV3/Bosh on the floor and it seems to be working


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

am actaully watching this 1,,, charlie V is sick a monsta 


mo pete jus nailed a huge three 

calderon is amazing


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## TRON (Feb 29, 2004)

Mike James!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
for 3

115-114 Sonics
26 seconds to go


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

Jack is an idiot - have to play aggressive on the inbbounds then foul.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

james for 3 

anuva board for charlie 

dwn by 1


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## madman (Oct 20, 2003)

Great Charge!!!!


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## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

great game so far..


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## madman (Oct 20, 2003)

lets see what sam draws up on offesnse, im gonna say bosh in the post


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## madman (Oct 20, 2003)

terrible way to end the game


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## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

calderon throws it away.....

He tried to do way too much.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

Still time - it's not done yet.

James
Villaneuva
Mo-Pete
Bonner
Calderon


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## madman (Oct 20, 2003)

JuniorNoboa said:


> Still time - it's not done yet.
> 
> James
> Villaneuva
> ...


 seattle will foul


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## nwt (Apr 24, 2005)

We're gonna miss this


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

jose loses it 


2 free throws for rad man 


rpas timoute dwn by 3


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

WTF - Jalen instead of Mo-Pete??


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## madman (Oct 20, 2003)

JuniorNoboa said:


> WTF - Jalen instead of Mo-Pete??


 FT shooting


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## TRON (Feb 29, 2004)

I know it's easy to second guess a play, but what did Sam draw up in that last play

a Bosh or Charlie Iso would have been the best option IMO


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

And then we will foul back


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## madman (Oct 20, 2003)

What A Shot Omfg


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## nwt (Apr 24, 2005)

Whatt!


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## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

wow, Bosh!


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

As the man in pink panties would say.... YES!


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

Yesssssssssssss Bosh For 2 Tie Game Hedin For Ot


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaah!!!! Yeeaaah!!


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## madman (Oct 20, 2003)

Wow i feel so stupid i actually started jumping in my house


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

My life, is complete.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

what a stat line for literally all our players i dare sum1 to choose 1 playa of the game lol 

trust me i was jumpin 2 madman


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

Ugly Shot. And get rose off the floor.


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

Why.. is Rose on?


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## madman (Oct 20, 2003)

JuniorNoboa said:


> Ugly Shot. And get rose off the floor.


 yea now it seems stupid


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## madman (Oct 20, 2003)

Why Rose Why?


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## madman (Oct 20, 2003)

everyone think as hard as you can and lets hope that one of is telepathic and can get MO back on the court


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## madman (Oct 20, 2003)

**** Bevetta


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

We Want Mo We Want Mo


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

lewis is so damn good


great pass from calderon 2 james


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

What A **** Call 

Bosh Out Of The Game


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## madman (Oct 20, 2003)

Rose dosent settle for a shot


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## madman (Oct 20, 2003)

Bonner instead of MO? :whofarted we need D not shooting


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## madman (Oct 20, 2003)

wow if that was against CV i would have gone nuts


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

how much do i hate dick bavetta? retire, your too old. you bum.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

yea no foul against collison tho.... 2 players out for lame reasons...

get bonner off 

we want mo


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## Theberge43 (Nov 2, 2004)

madman said:


> Bonner instead of MO? :whofarted we need D not shooting


Mo is fouled out as per ESPN Website


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## madman (Oct 20, 2003)

Why Rose????


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

i hate rose, and want him off the floor. but that was a good look.


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## madman (Oct 20, 2003)

Theberge43 said:


> Mo is fouled out as per ESPN Website


 when did that happen


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## madman (Oct 20, 2003)

Damn collison with the bucket and1


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## madman (Oct 20, 2003)

that ended quickly


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

BONNER. BOX OUT. goddamn.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

**** we have lost now


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## nwt (Apr 24, 2005)

5 Points in 5 seconds? 

Partayy


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## madman (Oct 20, 2003)

I hate to blame refs for losess but Bevetta really screwed us on two key plays


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

bonner is **** god damn wat a great game tho 5 secs left 5 points down


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## madman (Oct 20, 2003)

Wow just wow


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## nwt (Apr 24, 2005)

Was good till we decided to lose


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

and we have lost 

126-121

great game tho


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## wind161 (Jun 19, 2005)

god.. i hate rose and i hate the officials...


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## TRON (Feb 29, 2004)

I like Collison, he's a scrappy kinda player the Raps just don't have

Raps lose, but best game since their opener!!!!
0-6 baby


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

Sit Rose, it all goes well. Everyone pitched in, get to OT. Sam puts him back in. Why? Chucking swinging door MOFO. I don't know who I'm more pissed at Jalen for sucking or Sam for putting him in.


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## foul_balls (Jun 25, 2004)

Great Game....Most exciting game of the year so far..

I don't care if Toronto loses alot but if they can be in games and make it exciting....that's all I ask for.

Today truly showed the Raps can move on without Jalen. Got benched for jacking up shots. Didn't show that much in OT either but at least he was passing the ball in OT which was good to see.

Bonner doesn't improve our interior defense at all. Forget any suggestions that they should play him at all at C.

POG: James or CV?


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

Bad coaching down the stretch. Awful job by the refs down the stretch.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

sam is a ***** i want him gone.... calderon looked so dissapointed at the end...


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## madman (Oct 20, 2003)

blowuptheraptors said:


> Sit Rose, it all goes well. Everyone pitched in, get to OT. Sam puts him back in. Why? Chucking swinging door MOFO. I don't know who I'm more pissed at Jalen for sucking or Sam for putting him in.


 well if MO was fouled out, then there was very few options


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

foul_balls said:


> POG: James or CV?


CV, IMO. 

James was great, but he was a little quick on the trigger which hurt us at times. Charlie was a beast on the boards as well, and played well defensively.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

yeah i dint see him get that final foul maybe he was cos he put his warm up jersey thing on...
but seriously jalen was terrible


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## madman (Oct 20, 2003)

what about calderon with 12 (i think) assists and Bosh with his 3rd straight double double


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## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

well, kind of moot now, but this was exciting


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

^ Also, I believe Bosh should be a candidate. Great game.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

yeah i think all 4 deserve it they all played flat out great


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## madman (Oct 20, 2003)

spongyfungy said:


> well, kind of moot now, but this was exciting


 didnt work for me


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## foul_balls (Jun 25, 2004)

madman said:


> what about calderon with 12 (i think) assists and Bosh with his 3rd straight double double


Very True. but Calderon didn't shoot very well for the limited number of shots he took. I left out Bosh tho. He is a legit candidate for sure. All four of them played great.


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## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

well, still uploading. it should work now. re-download.


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## TRON (Feb 29, 2004)

*Lineup of the game*
Calderon/James/Mo/CV3/Bosh
-Sam please do not forget this group

*Raptors Best*
Charlie- 26/12
-made some rookie mistakes late in game, but he will be a great player no doubt

James- 14 for 21, 36 pts
- if it wasn't for his scoring this would have been another 10+ point loss

Bosh- 21/11
- this should become his average for season

*the Difference*
Seatle - 49 Free throw attempts
Toronto - 26 Free throw attempts

for this, I say F*** the refs, they screwed us all game long
as a Raptor fan I'm used to getting the short end of the stick when it comes to calls, but this was ridiculous


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## vi3t_boi11 (Aug 14, 2004)

freakin refs, Lewis should of been fouled out in the 4th, and that bull illegal screen called on Bosh


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

*Happy About:*

- Charlie Villanueva establishing an inside-outside offensive game; 7 offensive boards for him tonight, a few of them huge (especially the one to help send us to OT). Hopefully this will spark his regular season.

- Jose Calderon only shot on broken plays and when our players refused to move on offense--otherwise he looked to set people up. Remarkably consistent rookie. He is a very good point guard and I'm very pleased we have him for two more seasons after this one. Excellent pickup by Scott Howard and our international scouting staff.

- Morris Peterson playing great man-to-man defense. He is still an immature offensive player and he always will be but I'll take that so long as he keeps getting after it on defense. He fouled Rashard Lewis out of this game. Tough blocking call... he earned the charge on that one but you can't rely on the refs.


*Angry About:*

- 3 minutes for Rafael Araujo after he played well when he was out there. I have no idea what Sam Mitchell is doing with him.

- Putting Matt Bonner and Jalen Rose in during OT. Bonner cannot defend. Rose cannot defend. Mitchell will sacrifice defense for offense, which is a losing formula. Joey Graham and Aaron Williams should've replaced Peterson and Bosh, no question. Shows a complete lack of faith in our depth, IMO.

- Taking 32 three-pointers. No wonder we hardly had a free throw attempt in the first half. Seattle doesn't play defense, and we don't find Bosh and our bigs in the post enough. Too much gunning from the outside all around. When Calderon is in the game we are better, but we are still an amateurish offensive squad and we will be until somebody (Bosh) starts taking everyone to task.

- Sending Seattle to the charity stripe 49 times. That's awful.


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## ansoncarter (Dec 22, 2004)

we keep Sanchez' bird rights too

beautiful contract


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## ansoncarter (Dec 22, 2004)

yeah how is Aaron on the bench and Matt in the game like that???

without giving it much thought, that seems highly, highly questionable


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

tough loss but atleast there plenty of positives that game could of went either way I'am not even mad at the end result the raps played hard they could of layed down when there losing by 18 but fought back to make a game of it what more do you want?


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

some people are never happy


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

my thoughts on the game:

mike james was awesome to say the least. he played the best game of his life. definetly one of the better shooting performances i have witnessed. also contributed on the boards which was nice to see. a little quick on the trigger, but thats a given considering how hot he was.

jose was great today as well. brought the usual energy to the floor, and was excellent at setting up his teammates. as usual, didn't look to shoot.. he'd rather set up his teammates. played great defense for the most part. 

man, i love how much our point guards compliment each other. we have a strong bull of a point guard in mike james who is ruthless going to the basket and can really score. then we have the energizer bunny in calderon who loves to do nothing but set up his teammates. beautiful. love the calderon at the 1, and mike james at the 2.

rose was his usual crappy self. brought nothing but a few plays on the defensive end, and was doing what he does best - chucking. we played great without him. morris was decent. did a lot of chucking like jalen, but he contributed on the defensive end.

joey graham was pretty good. he really struggles when he slashes because he always bobbles the ball. its not that his ballhandling is that bad, its just that the way he dribbles makes it easy for the defender to steal it. despite this, he showed agressiveness going to the basket, and played very well defensively. would have liked to see him stay in the game instead of mo. 

bosh had a great game - pretty quietly. scored 21 points on 13 shots - very efficient. played with great energy. he was very agressive on the boards. he continues with his good passing. looks like he's starting to get used to the added pressure on him from the defense. we're seeing the chris bosh we all have come to love now. 

charlie, charlie, charlie! what a coming out party for him! came out with great energy and was an absolute terror for the seattle defense. he finally got his touches, and look at the monster game he had. he was abusing the seattle big man on the boards as well - 7 offensive rebounds.. he just slithers in there. played good defense for the second straight game. 

matt bonner was pretty bad. its unbelievable how bad he is at rebounding. learn how to box out, MATT! aaron williams was good. he had 6 boards in 12 minutes, but missed some easy shots. i thought araujo played very well in limited minutes. he played very good defense and kept his man off the boards. i wish he saw more minutes, but sam loves matt's energy too much (too bad his energy doesn't amount to much).. nice to see pape sow out there. he played good. hopefully sam eases him back into the lineup - not much room though. 

overall, a good game. despite seattle shooting over 50% and scoring 126 points, i thought we played good defense (with our young lineup).. we contested nearly every shot, it was just that seattle was on fire. won the battle on the boards which is always good to see - although seattle has been terrible on the boards this year. turnovers hurt us. im still confused over sams rotations. putting bonner and rose in there was questionable to say the very least. both cannot rebound to safe there lifes. REFS WERE AWFUL!

happy with this game. i want to see more losses like this.


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

blowuptheraptors said:


> Sit Rose, it all goes well. Everyone pitched in, get to OT. Sam puts him back in. Why? Chucking swinging door MOFO. I don't know who I'm more pissed at Jalen for sucking or Sam for putting him in.


I'm pretty sure Mo Pete got fouled out, and he was forced to go with Jalen. He had a couple of great chances from beyond the arc, but he messed both of them up.


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## JS03 (Jan 5, 2005)

aww.. tough loss..  :curse:


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## madman (Oct 20, 2003)

if the raps lost all of our games like that i wouldnt be upset, as long as they play hard its all good


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## dtron (Jun 11, 2004)

this was a case of certain veteran players letting down the younger guys, jalen rose costed them the game in overtime. after they fought back with him on the bench, he didnt even look like he was excited when they making a comback, when they were fighting back in the fourth and the rap would score a basket, the whole team would get up and cheer, where rose looked like he was a bench player for the sonics.mike james played great, bonner play bad as did mo, jose played great with some costly mistakes though. bosh played well but still not the bosh of last year


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## madman (Oct 20, 2003)

Jalens friend was killed and missed practice did anyone else know that??


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## shookem (Nov 1, 2005)

Charlie SuperNueva, 'nuff said.


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## Divine Spammer (Jul 11, 2005)

Life's easier without Jalen. TRADE HIM!

And now there's a question I must ask:
Rashard Lewis played the entire 4th quarter+OT with 5 PF. The Raps had a golden opportunity to get rid of Lewis, who's always rip our ***. Now, atleast tell me that his men abused him. Did our team took advantage of his foul trouble?

If not- I'm goin' to explode, because that's a shame!


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

Sounds like a great loss. Can't wait to watch it. 

Knew Charlie would come out with a big performance sooner or later. 

I love the comment on our balance at PG now- Mike James is the backup eventually but what a great backup PG he'll be (vs Rafer). 

Bosh starting to roll along nicely- 20 and 10 baby.

Negligible Hoffa is very dissapointing. He could have made an impact against Seattle's big men.


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## TRON (Feb 29, 2004)

> Originally posted by *madman !*
> 
> Jalens friend was killed and missed practice did anyone else know that??


maybe this explains his poor start to the season.....14.5 ppg (35.8 FG%)


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

smh @ everybody blaming jalen for the loss ppl love to hate this guy


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## madman (Oct 20, 2003)

it would explain today but not the whole season


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

madman said:


> it would explain today but not the whole season


maybe but if look at everyone who played today you can singleout at least 1 or 2 dumb play they did no need for the jalen hate


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

Turkish Delight said:


> I'm pretty sure Mo Pete got fouled out, and he was forced to go with Jalen. He had a couple of great chances from beyond the arc, but he messed both of them up.


He was also pretty **** on D. I wanted Joey in the game at that point.

CV - Awsome.

Bosh - Nice

Calderon - Amazing, couple of the tos were not his fault as players moved at the worng time in the wrong direction. I love him.

Bonner - argh.

Rose - **** you. Did you all see the bench shot of the tying bucket. Everyone was going crazy but Jalen because that piece of **** wasn't on the floor. He needs to go now. Not this year, not at the end of his deal. NOW

Mo - Started slow but played great D throught, bs calls a couple times.


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## TRON (Feb 29, 2004)

> Originally posted by *Mr_B !*
> 
> no need for the jalen hate


Jalen does get hated on unfairly at times, however....

my thing with him is if he isn't lighting it up on offense, he becomes a defensive liability that isn't scoring or rebounding. At least MoPete can play some D, when he wasn't scoring today. 

So, in your mind how is Jalen helping us?
3-12 for 7 points and typical Jalen Defense :whoknows:


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

TRON said:


> Jalen does get hated on unfairly at times, however....
> 
> my thing with him is if he isn't lighting it up on offense, he becomes a defensive liability that isn't scoring or rebounding. At least MoPete can play some D, when he wasn't scoring today.
> 
> ...


all I'am saying is jalen has his strenghts and weaknesses but he doesen't deserve the main blame for every raptor loss sometimes I swear jalen could be benched and entire game and someone on here will still find a way to blame him for the loss


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## shookem (Nov 1, 2005)

if you're making the money Jalen is, you deserve to be hated on.

time to put up Jalen, any way you can.


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## The_Notic (Nov 10, 2005)

Let's Trade Matt Bonner for a 2nd round pick.. this guy is a waste... cant rebound, cant dribble, his shot has been neutralized.. and his defence is just horrible.. wat a waste.. i knew jus cuz he was a fan fav las year he would get a contract he didnt deserve, theres a reason he was in Europe fellas, and to me, it looks like he belongs back there


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

The_Notic said:


> Let's Trade Matt Bonner for a 2nd round pick.. this guy is a waste... cant rebound, cant dribble, his shot has been neutralized.. and his defence is just horrible.. wat a waste.. i knew jus cuz he was a fan fav las year he would get a contract he didnt deserve, theres a reason he was in Europe fellas, and to me, it looks like he belongs back there



Dude, his contract isn't anything to get upset about, even if he doesn't play another minute. The fact that Mitchell is playing him says something for his ability to play the game, even if it does upset us.


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## shookem (Nov 1, 2005)

Bonner's fine, did you guys consider that Sam puts the guys out there that will run his game plan? Matty doesn't really strike me like a rebel.


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## Slasher (Jul 11, 2003)

I went to this game and it was a fun one to watch, although frustrating at times.


 The Raptors looked lost at the start of the first and third quarters. They would get a few passes together and then hold or dribble the ball for 5-6 seconds only to have a poor shot, get a turnover, or have it stolen. Had they put in a solid first quarter start, a solid third quarter out of the half time I believe they would have won the game in regulation.
 Why do the Raptors foul so damn much? They gave up way too many points due to fouls.
 Aaron Williams and Jalen Rose looked unaffected by the game as if they don't care. You'd think the vets would get on the team for playing poorly.
 Aaron Williams is not any better than Loren Woods or Rafael Araujo.
 Araujo got a fair share of boos when he entered the game for the first time.
 Peterson looked lost at certain times of the game. Did the starting gig get to his head?
 Raptors missed too many inside shots and layups. Mitchell really should have them working on inside scoring. Missing a shot right underneath the bucket or missing on a fast break layup is uncalled for.

The game had just above 15,000 fans in the ACC, although the crowd was silent until the fourth and the overtime - accept the boos for Araujo in the first.


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## ballocks (May 15, 2003)

just realized that mop fouled out. didn't hear anything on the subject from chuck or jack at the time, it sounded like they were just avoiding the issue. but now i see what happened. that's relief if i've ever felt any.

thought the game was one of our first real efforts of the season- maybe the very first. you could make the case that even this affair had its share of lethargic play on our behalf, and you'd be right, but at least we put together some semblance of an extended run today. at least we did that. i'm happy with the group that got it done, too: bosh, v, mop, jose and mike. didn't hear anyone complaining about our lack of a true 5 while we were annihilating the sonics' fivesome of rashard, ray, ridnour, petro and collison. i'm not saying we don't need to get bigger and tougher, because we clearly do, just reiterating that it's not the end of the world in the modern day to play without a "position" on the floor.

anyway, i think a lot of players deserve points for their play today. james was stellar, and in many ways, as was v, but i also saw some great signs today of a promising future from others. calderon, for one, seemed more comfortable than he's been- i think he's improved since the beginning of the season, and i'm glad he has. 

aaron looked like a player in full understanding of our gameplan, although he didn't play much (~10-15). i thought bosh was fantastic one moment, somewhat disinterested in the next, so i don't know how to value his contributions. i'll just leave those judgments for someone else, but he clearly showed some exceptional skills this afternoon.

like i implied above, i thought mo peterson was electric tonight. his defensive responsibilities were enormous, yet he never appeared flustered with them (although rashard and ray each had big games). he was always in control of himself, with the possible exception of a near technical in the 4th that would've severely crippled our run. good on 'im for letting his cooler head prevail, i guess. and to that point, missing shots or not, i thought he was superb. the look on his face is always inspiring.

regarding jalen, this player has not been the same this season at all (imo). his mind appears elsewhere. he's usually counted on to score at the 'right times', where he'd allow our runs to continue or put a sock in the runs of our opponents (equivalent to the rick carlisle timeouts that are so frustrating to watch), but he hasn't been capable in that regard this season (imo). he missed several (probably 3 or 4) such shots today, 2 in the second and 1 more in the 4th/ot, and it's really been worrying me. i think someone mentioned that he was dealing with a personal tragedy against seattle, and it wouldn't surprise me for that to have been the case. i hope he can get his game on track soon because we need him.

but i need mitchell to help me out. i want to support him too but he's making it awfully tough for me to do so. there are so many things occurring throughout almost every game, and at almost every point in the games, that lead me to question his experience and knowhow. for one thing, the actual coaching staff itself, imo, looks to have little chemistry. i know it's easy to bring up during a streak like this but i remember it being the same way for all of last season, as well. for jay triano to be on the bench playing tic tac toe or some **** with figurehead alex english, while jim todd's strategies consistently appear in conflict with sam's, is not an easy thing to support. 

but for anyone talking about losing another 10 games in a row, please take a break. the upcoming schedule, imo, has hardly an intimidating string of games and i'm firmly expecting this team to break the goose egg this week. i don't know where our inferiority complex reappeared, nor why, but it's apparently affecting the team (imo) and i wish we could get some confident souls to pull us through such tough periods.

great game overall. seattle did a good job themselves, re-asserting themselves in overtime. they have a fun team to watch, and i love their confidence in the officials. they don't complain very often, and man, that's certainly a sight for sore eyes these days.

peace


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## ansoncarter (Dec 22, 2004)

I thought Mo's defence was subpar today personally

had his moments, and drew a couple charges as per usual, but Lewis made him a pylon on a couple key plays late in the game. 

and that one play where Mo was complaining to the ref?? right when they were trying to feed his man?? then he lazily tries to front Lewis (while still glaring at the ref iirc) who casually takes the pass since he's now wide open. ugh


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## undefined_playa (Oct 23, 2005)

blowuptheraptors said:


> He was also pretty **** on D. I wanted Joey in the game at that point.
> 
> CV - Awsome.
> 
> ...


- Gotta agree with you on everything man. Except Bonner doesn't = argh....rather ****! Man, after watching this game, i'm no longer anything of a Bonner fan. He is TERRIBLE on defense, can't create, dribble, or board. Even his shot is looking shaky...i'd honestly rather have Hoff on than him...but not Rose.
- Also, I don't care if Mo shot poorly, he played good D, which is more than many others on the team can say. 
- Is it just me, or is Graham not utilizing his full capabilities? Everytime he's on the break or has the ball, he's hesitant and doesn't seem to ever go agressive to the rim. I dunno...maybe expectations were just way too high for him.
- Mike Who? was just on fire. Seriously guys, who would you rather have now, him or Rafer? Alston has not been doing well in Houston lately.
- IMO Aaron W. provides a decent inside presence we can really use.
- After Bosh got that putback me and my friends started screaming like crazy and were hugging each other and laughing for 5 min. haha
- Finally, thank God Mitchell took the cancer off. Think about this...Jalen always decides to go one-and-dun shooting as soon as he gets the rock with ppl in his face. Today, he had TONS of open looks and didn't stick them. So WHAT THE HELL HAS JALEN BEEN DOING?!?!?! If you can't make open shots, wtf are you doing shooting contested jumpers all the time?


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

undefined_playa said:


> - Is it just me, or is Graham not utilizing his full capabilities? Everytime he's on the break or has the ball, he's hesitant and doesn't seem to ever go agressive to the rim. I dunno...maybe expectations were just way too high for him.


Huh? I am seeing the exact opposite, these last few games. 

What do you want him to do? Rise up and dunk over two-three people everytime he gets into the paint? Actually, he nearly almost did that today - but he got fouled.

Anyways, Joey has been going to the rim hard the last few games. Alot of the time he doesn't even get a shot up because he tends to fumble the ball. 

I would have called Joey hesitant the first few games, but not our last 3 games.


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

Gotta give some love to Charlie today, he finally showed what kind of rebounder he could be. For whatever reason he turned it on big time in the fourth quarter and grabbed almost all his boards in that Q. 

If he can continue to rebound like that (say 9rpg) and score fairly efficiently then I can actually live with him at SF despite the defensive problems.

Any player looks great when he shoots a big percentage in a game, but its the rebounding that will make Charlie an asset or a liability on the court most games when he is not red hot from the field.

I won't blast him for the FT shooting or the air ball at the end. First good signs from Charlie. Now he has to keep it going.

Mike James really carried the team today. The veteran starting group sucked in both halves. Got us off to a big deficit in the first Q and then let the halftime deficit grow in the third Q. Mike kept us in the game in the first and got us back in the game in the 4th.

Hard to say if the comeback was just from the Sonics relaxing after building the lead to almost 20. I know I felt it was over.

No idea why Sam put Rose back in the game late. He stopped the ball movement and totally screwed up the chemistry that James and Calderon had going.

No calls on Lewis may have cost us the game, although our FT shooting was a big culprit.

I thought this was Joey's first bad game. Not too worried about him.


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

shookem said:


> if you're making the money Jalen is, you deserve to be hated on.
> 
> time to put up Jalen, any way you can.


so the the amount of money determies how much you hate/love a guy? lol


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

Mr_B said:


> so the the amount of money determies how much you hate/love a guy? lol


 No, the fact that he plays the way he plays and acts the way he acts for the money he makes, is pathetic. When you're being paid that amount of money to play basketball, the least you can do is try and fit in with the concept of the team you're on.


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

As for Mitch, it boggles my mind as to how a coach could seemingly (in the eyes of our fans) do everything right on the court last year, and then flip the script and do the opposite this year. Weird.


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## ansoncarter (Dec 22, 2004)

him and Bonner are getting killed by fans lately

definitely weird

(for me, Sam has made some really questionable calls. Not gonna pretend to understand all the things he's trying to do, and I know he's a smart guy...but some of this stuff is just blatant. I think he deserves a lot of it personally)


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

If you look at Bonner's play, then you look at the contract he got, then you think back to all the drama surrounding his contract in the summer, you can't help but to give it to Rob for playing his cards right. Dude has played awful so far this young season, except for that one 15 & 8 game.


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## Unknownone (May 14, 2005)

ballocks said:


> great game overall. seattle did a good job themselves, re-asserting themselves in overtime. they have a fun team to watch, and i love their confidence in the officials. they don't complain very often, and man, that's certainly a sight for sore eyes these days.


Swirsky pointed this out during the broadcast; after Ray Allen was whistled for an offensive foul, he quickly jogged towards the Sonics defensive end of the court w/ nary a word for the official - can you even imagine Jalen doing the same? You're being paid $ and called a professional - this includes your on-court conduct... Methinks that this is a legacy of McMillan's tenure in Seattle (as both coach and player) - not your most talented and gifted prospect to emerge from NC State, but he left it on the floor each time he played...


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## Unknownone (May 14, 2005)

Budweiser_Boy said:


> If you look at Bonner's play, then you look at the contract he got, then you think back to all the drama surrounding his contract in the summer, you can't help but to give it to Rob for playing his cards right. Dude has played awful so far this young season, except for that one 15 & 8 game.


I think that a lot of the naysayers re: Babcock will begin to retract and/or retreat from their critical position(s) *if* the plan is carried to fruition; w/ a full year to evaluate talent and absorb scouting reports, this past summer (including not yielding to Bonner's agent's contract demands) demonstrated a certain degree of guile - it's his Wally Cleaver/aw-shucks demeanor that helps to invite public derision, especially from the ill-informed general populace for whom basketball is nothing more than a momentary diversion...


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## myELFboy (Jun 28, 2005)

well, the Sonics pulled it off....once again, they blow a huge lead in the 4th & go into OT...I've seen this twice already, only against the clips they never recovered & lost. This has to be one of the most stressful games I've listened to.....no TV in WA, just radio for this one.

Villanueva sounds impressive---couldn't see him play, obviously, but his numbers were impressive, & off the bench too, that's damn good. Not really a feel good win for the Sonics, since they almost blew it, but I guess it's better than getting blown out by 25, 27 or 41.


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## Rhubarb (Mar 19, 2005)

Eck, not the day to play the Supes. 

Shard explodes in one of his randomly generated good weeks, Ridnour hits a vein of form (offensively), and Weiss decides to try out his winning formula with Collison and Petro starting. Can't say we didn't bring it to the table either (although that could be arguable for some players), but I suppose on this occasion, it wasn't enough.

That being said, I mirror the thoughts of most posts already been said and done: it was a disappointing loss, but one with alot more positives than one may have expected to take out of the game.

After his early mediocre form, Chris is starting to warm up now - a good sign for all concerned. He knows as much as we do that he has to perform at this standard every night out for this team to notch a W.

JC continues to set up the play well, even if his shot wasn't falling for him tonight. Sam really needs to reward him with consistent minutes in games - not 30 one game and then 14 the next. Charlie followed suit, and arguably had his first real big outing; 7 boards off the offensive glass is a great effort. Mo Pete puts his mouth where his money is, in a way, and played some nice D. Shots were falling were James as well.

Play with this sort of energy and the wins will come soon enough.


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

Budweiser_Boy said:


> When you're being paid that amount of money to play basketball, the least you can do is try and fit in with the concept of the team you're on.


and how do you know jalen not trying?


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## spinz (Aug 19, 2005)

Budweiser_Boy said:


> As for Mitch, it boggles my mind as to how a coach could seemingly (in the eyes of our fans) do everything right on the court last year, and then flip the script and do the opposite this year. Weird.



i hope it's not the "sophmore jinx"


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## spinz (Aug 19, 2005)

to me the best highlight of this young raptor season happened on Sunday...

when bosh tipped in the game tying shot and he just got hyped up and you could see the high he was on...he brought the energy to the bench and the team was going nuts...in fact the ACC and all the coach potato fans were going nuts as well!!!!...it might have been the first time this season i've seen that type of positive emotion...

if we gotta take positives from what happened Sunday, it has to be that key moment with the tying shot...it proves that the raptors are 'gritty', and can play as a unit when they want to....now granted it was against a struggling team, but it's not like Seattle doesn't have talent...

if bosh didn't getted fouled out in OT, he would have won the game for us...

as many raptor fans have stated, if we're going to lose this season, hopefully we can lose making a game of it and not by blow outs where the team and the coach look dejected...hopefully the coaching staff can make an effort to replay the game tying shot a few times for the guys so that it can sink in...

could this be the 'X' factor for the season?... :gopray:


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## shookem (Nov 1, 2005)

i hope it's not that he didn't know how to coach in the first place.


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## MjM2xtreMe (Sep 1, 2005)

Mr_B said:


> and how do you know jalen not trying?



you can kinda tell that Jalen hasnt been worth what he's being paid for. His isolation plays and how he was benched a couple times during crunch time shows that he hasn't been as productive as the coach wants him to be. If he can't make offensive plays he surely can't make any defensive stops. If you're getting paid that amount you can't just play one side.


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

Mr_B said:


> and how do you know jalen not trying?


 I know because if he _was_ trying, he'd give the rock up more. He wouldn't go 3-12 or take the same crappy shots he always does. He'd try bringing the rookies and Bosh into the offense more. He'd play like he was on an NBA team and not a junior high team. He's not trying because all he cares about is making his numbers look good. Hey, if you score 22 points a game on 40% shooting and your team doesn't win 15 games, it makes you look like a good player in a crappy situation, right? i get the feeling Rose is doing this to a) raise his value, b) deflect the blame off himself, and c) save his career scoring averages. That's not trying to fit in with the team, and I don't see how it could be passed off any other way.


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## BBB (Jan 19, 2005)

I thought it was a very entertaining game. 

First off, Bosh had a great game I thought, although his numbers may indicate an above-average game only. I liked how the team went with Bosh to begin the game, with Bosh starting the game extremely aggressive on the offensive end. And he really showed his "heart" out there. After getting the game-tying putback, man it was getting crazy. Loved his effort. Had some nice shots too, including one very nice step-back jumpshot and a nice babyhook from the left block. 

Next, Charlie Villanueva man. 26 and 12. Great stuff. Active on the boards, aggressive on offense. Really showed off his offensive skills in this game, stroking the outside shot, and showing the ability to put it on the floor too. Him and Bosh looked promising alongside each other, had a couple of good passes between 'em two. If we can keep Bosh here, I reckon them two will have a damn good future playing alongside each other. 

Next up, Jose Calderon. He is just such a great playmaker, what a refreshing sight compared to last year's trigger-happy Rafer. His passing skills are excellent IMO, I'm starting to become a big fan of his now. 

Then there's Mike James. 36 points. He really carried the team on his shoulders, the only real veteren to shine in the game. 

Rashard Lewis was just unstoppable out there. His length and his shooting ability just make him such a tough guy to guard. Luke Ridnour was another guy who did well for the Sonics. Loved his playmaking skills too, thought he was pretty damn good at leading a fast break. 

All in all, if the Raptors can keep this effort up, the first win will be here _soon_. 

Must say though, there is a lot of defensive work that needs to be done. Flip Murray was free to do whatever he wanted on a couple of occassions. Really need to tighten the D. And for what it's worth, I thought Hoffa played well in the three minutes he had. Good pressure on D, and nice collaboration with Jose for the easy basket.


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