# DRAFT PROSPECT: Andrew Bogut



## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

This thread is to discuss all things Bogut. Any other threads created focusing on Bogut will be merged with this one from now one.

Draft Prospect: *Andrew Bogut*










Position: *C/PF*
Age at Draft: *20*
Height/Weight/Wingspan/Reach: *7'.75" / 250 lbs / 7'3" / 9'2.5"*
College: *Utah Utes*
Birthplace: *Melbourne Australia*

Season Avgs 04/05: *20.4 ppg, 12.2 rpg, 1.9 bpg, FG% 62*
Season Avgs 03/04: *12.5 ppg, 9.9 rpg, 1.3 bpg, FG% 57*

Vertical: *33.5"*
Combine Rank: *60*

Projected Pick: *1 or 2*

*Quick Hit:* A rare true, skilled center available in the draft. A decent athlete for his size, although he is a bit slow-footed. Well developed post moves, a good defender in the lane, and an excellent passer for a guy his size. At worst Bogut will be a decent starting center in the league.

Rock the AV Here

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*The Questions:*
Is he strong enough and athletic enough for the NBA level?
Is he really as cocky as he is quoted? Is that a good or a bad thing?
How high is his ceiling? Is the potential there?
Is he really worth a number one pick?
Which team would be the best fit for Bogut?


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## Pure Scorer (Jul 20, 2002)

*Is he strong enough and athletic enough for the NBA level?*

Yes.

*Is he really as cocky as he is quoted? Is that a good or a bad thing?*

He's confident. Good thing. I don't think he's cocky. He needs to have that type of attitude, where he isn't afraid to say what he thinks. People were saying Ray Allen shouldn't talk about Kobe at the beginning of the year, and who ended up in the playoffs? 

*How high is his ceiling? Is the potential there?*

Could be as effective as Tim Duncan. Personally, I don't think he'll ever be as solid defensively, but offensively I think he has the potential to be better (and that's saying a lot)

*Is he really worth a number one pick?*

Without a doubt.

*Which team would be the best fit for Bogut?*

I think Milwaukee is about as good as it gets, especially if Ford is back. Ford can penetrate or feed the post from the perimeter. Redd can hit the deep jumper consistently, so a two man game would work extremely well. And desmond Mason could be the weak side slasher, and he's emerged as one of the better slashers/finishers in the league in the past year. I don't think you could find a better fit.


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## HeinzGuderian (Jun 29, 2004)

*Is he strong enough and athletic enough for the NBA level?*
Not strong enough yet, but is athletic enough and should add strength.
*Is he really as cocky as he is quoted? Is that a good or a bad thing?*
He's cocky but I wouldn't be worried about it as a bad thing. It's better than being timid and scared.
*Is he really worth a number one pick?*
This year, yes. Aren't many (any?) clear cut studs to go above him in this crop of players. So there's nothing wrong with taking a safe pick when he's 7 feet tall and gurantees you a decent starting center at the very least.


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## Amplifier (Feb 7, 2005)

It will be hard to not take him #1. But I doubt he's a top player from this draft (Raef Lafrenz/Chris Mihm/Christian Laettner ruined my faith in white centers that excelled in college)


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

HeinzGuderian said:


> *Is he strong enough and athletic enough for the NBA level?*
> Not strong enough yet, but is athletic enough and should add strength.
> *Is he really as cocky as he is quoted? Is that a good or a bad thing?*
> He's cocky but I wouldn't be worried about it as a bad thing. It's better than being timid and scared.
> ...


Its good to see a Tar Heel fan not rip on Bogut....


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

Amplifier said:


> It will be hard to not take him #1. But I doubt he's a top player from this draft (Raef Lafrenz/Chris Mihm/Christian Laettner ruined my faith in white centers that excelled in college)



Those guys don't seem to be good indicators of Bogut. Lafrentz and Laettner were never really centers, at least not in NBA terms. As far as real center size, Mihm is a good comparison but didn't Bogut dominate much more in the college than Mihm did?


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## ItalianStallion (Jun 8, 2005)

looks to me we are all very high on bogut... hell be very solid and contribute imediately, but i wouldnt start Tim Duncan comparisons for a while. that said, IMO he more than whort the number 1 pick and hell be a perfect fit in Milwaukee.


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## MarvinWilliams#1in05 (Feb 13, 2005)

If he can be the first white center to be a superstar (Yes, the first pick in the draft should be a superstar, for a center thats 18-10 or so) since Bill Walton then thats fantastic, but until I see it happen I'll have to stick with the history of the Mihm's, Kamans and Raefs. If he could turn out to be close to as good as Big Z, I think he would have to be considered somewhat of a success. He still needs to add about 20-30 pounds if he really wants to dominate, right now I can already see guys like Danny Fortson shoving his scrawny frame out of the low block.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

MarvinWilliams#1in05 said:


> If he can be the first white center to be a superstar (Yes, the first pick in the draft should be a superstar, for a center thats 18-10 or so) since Bill Walton then thats fantastic, but until I see it happen I'll have to stick with the history of the Mihm's, Kamans and Raefs. If he could turn out to be close to as good as Big Z, I think he would have to be considered somewhat of a success. He still needs to add about 20-30 pounds if he really wants to dominate, right now I can already see guys like Danny Fortson shoving his scrawny frame out of the low block.


Seems to me that Bogut will be much better defensively than Big Z, while being able to be just as good offensively. Plus, Bogut has already shown he is a very good passer for a center, probably much better than Z. 

I don't see him becoming dominant, like a Shaq or Duncan type level (or Dwight Howard in a few years :biggrin: ) - but if he turns out to be better than Big Z he'd be well worth the first pick. IMO.

Why do you say "first white center" ... ? What does him being white have anything to do with? A lot of the lottery selected centers in the last few years, regardless of their race/color, have been bunk.


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## MarvinWilliams#1in05 (Feb 13, 2005)

JNice said:


> Seems to me that Bogut will be much better defensively than Big Z, while being able to be just as good offensively. Plus, Bogut has already shown he is a very good passer for a center, probably much better than Z.
> 
> I don't see him becoming dominant, like a Shaq or Duncan type level (or Dwight Howard in a few years :biggrin: ) - but if he turns out to be better than Big Z he'd be well worth the first pick. IMO.
> 
> Why do you say "first white center" ... ? What does him being white have anything to do with? A lot of the lottery selected centers in the last few years, regardless of their race/color, have been bunk.


Ya, but ALL the white centers have been busts. White centers don't seem to translate well to the nba game.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

MarvinWilliams#1in05 said:


> Ya, but ALL the white centers have been busts. White centers don't seem to translate well to the nba game.


Look at all the players in the NBA with the last name Williams. 

Aaron Williams
Alvin Williams
Eric Williams
Jason Williams
Jerome Williams
Maurice Williams
Scott Williams

This obviously means that Marvin Williams probably won't be any better than those guys, given the trend of players with the last name Williams. I guess players with the last name Williams don't translate well into the NBA game.


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## MarvinWilliams#1in05 (Feb 13, 2005)

Sir Patchwork said:


> Look at all the players in the NBA with the last name Williams.
> 
> Aaron Williams
> Alvin Williams
> ...


Cute, but still doesn't change the fact that there hasn't been a decent white center drafted since Big Z. Has nothing to do with racism, its just a fact that white/unathletic centers haven't worked out for quite some time.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

MarvinWilliams#1in05 said:


> Cute, but still doesn't change the fact that there hasn't been a decent white center drafted since Big Z. Has nothing to do with racism, its just a fact that white/unathletic centers haven't worked out for quite some time.


Yep. Doesn't change the fact that there hasn't been a decent player with the last name Williams in even longer. It's amazing that these guys are the top two prospects? They have bust written all over them based on the extremely relevant facts we have pointed out.


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## MarvinWilliams#1in05 (Feb 13, 2005)

Sir Patchwork said:


> Yep. Doesn't change the fact that there hasn't been a decent player with the last name Williams in even longer. It's amazing that these guys are the top two prospects? They have bust written all over them based on the extremely relevant facts we have pointed out.


Actually being white and unathletic is an extremely relevant fact because the NBA style has turned into a game where guys like McHale and Walton could not survive. You need more than just size (which Bogut doesn't even have at 250 pounds) to be successful. No size and no athleticism spells trouble, which can pretty much be said about all the recent white centers to come into the league. As we all know last names don't affect play, but your abilities do.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

Can you name me some black and athletic centers that have been drafted recently that are good? Just so I can level with you on this exclusive type of player that never works out in the NBA (white and unathletic).


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

I really hate to involve myself in such a moronic line of thought,but I should like to ask just how far are you willing to go to make yourself look ignorant. Kevin McHale was one of the best post player and best defenders in the last quarter century.In point of fact athleticism is only one quality that a post player needs.An understanding of the game is also necessary,but clearly that would elude you. 


Hardly any young centers black,white or yellow are athletic.Most of them are awkward and raw and they require development.Patrick Ewing comes along once in a generation.Tim Duncan comes along once in a generation.More athletic players come along and fail every year.


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## MarvinWilliams#1in05 (Feb 13, 2005)

Sir Patchwork said:


> Can you name me some black and athletic centers that have been drafted recently that are good? Just so I can level with you on this exclusive type of player that never works out in the NBA (white and unathletic).


Actually most of todays young centers are moving over to the power forward spots to show off their versatility. Your KG's, Jermaine Oneal's, Dwight Howards and Amare Stoudamires fit into this mold. Would have been centers in the early 90's but are far too talented to be stuck exclusively on the block.


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## MarvinWilliams#1in05 (Feb 13, 2005)

Diable said:


> I really hate to involve myself in such a moronic line of thought,but I should like to ask just how far are you willing to go to make yourself look ignorant. Kevin McHale was one of the best post player and best defenders in the last quarter century.In point of fact athleticism is only one quality that a post player needs.An understanding of the game is also necessary,but clearly that would elude you.
> 
> 
> Hardly any young centers black,white or yellow are athletic.Most of them are awkward and raw and they require development.Patrick Ewing comes along once in a generation.Tim Duncan comes along once in a generation.More athletic players come along and fail every year.


Athletic ability of todays forwards would overshadow anything McHale could do to stop them. It would really be quite funny to watch.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

It's pretty obvious that you're trying to take the lack of good centers in the league today, make it a white thing, and try to pass it off as a reason why Bogut isn't as good as your boy Marvin Williams. Look at the young centers in the league today. 

*White/Unathletic:*
Brad Miller
Chris Mihm
Chris Kaman
Rasho Nesterovich
Joel Pryzbilla
Zydrunas Ilgauskas
Primoz Brezec
Jeff Foster
Raef LaFrentz

*Black:*
Adonal Foyle
Erick Dampier
Steven Hunter
Lorenzen Wright
Jamaal Magloire
Nazr Mohammed
Marcus Camby
Michael Olowokandi
Jerome James
Brendan Haywood
Eddy Curry
Dan Gadzuric
Jason Collins
Samuel Dalembert

Practically the same in calibur, both lists are pretty mediocre at best. What you're doing, is taking the list of white players, and making that the reason that Bogut is going to be a bust in your mind. That would be the same as me looking at Greg Oden next year, and using the 2nd list right there as a reason why he will be a bust. 

You can't pidgeon hole guys, and you'll realize this when Bogut becomes a good player. Of course, you won't be around when all your moronic posts get bumped.


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## MarvinWilliams#1in05 (Feb 13, 2005)

Sir Patchwork said:


> It's pretty obvious that you're trying to take the lack of good centers in the league today, make it a white thing, and try to pass it off as a reason why Bogut isn't as good as your boy Marvin Williams. Look at the young centers in the league today.
> 
> *White/Unathletic:*
> Brad Miller
> ...


Don't forget to add KG, Amare, Jermaine, Emeka and Dwight to that list, looks a little different now doesn't it? Theres no need to call anyone a moron. I may think you're a pisson loser, but i'd never say it to you in public.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

MarvinWilliams#1in05 said:


> Don't forget to add KG, Amare, Jermaine, Emeka and Dwight to that list, looks a little different now doesn't it? Theres no need to call anyone a moron. I may think you're a pisson loser, but i'd never say it to you in public.


Then I'll add Gasol and Nowitzki, if you can add those guys who aren't centers. I've said that I think Bogut is going to be like Gasol, except more consistent, so the fact that there is a favorable comparison that is the same skin color should make you happy.


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## MarvinWilliams#1in05 (Feb 13, 2005)

Sir Patchwork said:


> Then I'll add Gasol and Nowitzki, if you can add those guys who aren't centers. I've said that I think Bogut is going to be like Gasol, except more consistent, so the fact that there is a favorable comparison that is the same skin color should make you happy.


I'll give you Gasol, but Dirk is pretty much garbage outa the low block, and I've never seen him shoot a jump hook, so he's definately not a center or would have ever been one. You seem to have a little to much anger inside around this subject, which is a quite legitimate one, and has been discussed quite a few times before, which you obviously didn't see. It may be time for a break from the comp.

Shaq, Brand, Jermaine, Blount, Duncan, Howard, Okafor, Ben Wallace, Rasheed Wallace, Amare, Magloire, Curry, Dalembert, Zack Randolph, Camby

vs.

Pau, Miller and Big Z

I think it's safe to say that the low post is dominated by athletic-african american players.


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## AussieWarriorFan! (May 30, 2005)

JNice said:


> This thread is to discuss all things Bogut. Any other threads created focusing on Bogut will be merged with this one from now one.
> 
> Draft Prospect: *Andrew Bogut*
> 
> ...



Wow.............................. :biggrin:


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

Sir Patchwork said:


> You can't pidgeon hole guys, and you'll realize this when Bogut becomes a good player. Of course, you won't be around when all your moronic posts get bumped.


I'll let this speak for me. I'm not going to sit here and argue with a racist about why a certain race can't be good at a certain position at basketball. If you want to talk basketball, then that's what I'm here for, otherwise you're a waste of my time. Race has nothing to do with anything. Duncan isn't all that athletic, but since he is black, you have him pidgeon holed as a black and athletic post player. You have no idea how to draw lines and look at each player on an individual basis. Go ahead and respond with your "you're angry and need to take a break" type nonsense, but who do you think you're fooling? Everytime I've checked this forum today you've been on here, and if people were writing off your boy Marvin Williams because of something so irrelevant as race, you would get angry too, racism is something to legitimately be angry with. I'll just stop paying attention to you though, since you're really the first racist I've seen on these boards since I've been here. Your ignorance has made me appreciate how little of a factor race is on these boards, even through heated arguments, it doesn't become a factor. Good for you, don't expect me to ever respond to your posts again, until I bump your ignorance next season, when of course, you'll be missing in action.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

MarvinWilliams#1in05 said:


> but Dirk is pretty much garbage outa the low block, and I've never seen him shoot a jump hook,


You've never seen Dirk shoot a jump hook? Watch more ****ing basketball PLEASE. That's like saying you've never seen Kobe Bryant cross over.

I've not only seen Dirk shoot a jump hook, but I've seen him shoot a full on sweeping hook and a running hook before. Did you watch the playoffs?

Dirk can make every post move there is, and he has no qualms about doing so.

It mystifies me where folks such as yourself get these ludicrous ideas.


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## DHarris34Phan (Oct 28, 2004)

*NBA Scouts, Officials drooling over Bogut*
_June 16th, 2005_



> Picture yourself as an NBA general manager in your office with the door closed, the morning's coffee buzz faded to oblivion, the late-afternoon sun dappling the to-do list on your desk. Sleepy? Go on, doze off ... give in to a little daydream, ... and, well, what do you see?
> 
> A 7-footer, for starters. A real center, not some fainthearted Euro-gunner. One who can run the floor and handle the ball, one who can score in the paint going to his left or to his right. Oh, and he passes like Shaq. No, like Sabonis. He thinks the game — let's give him the basketball IQ of a point guard.
> 
> ...


*LINK *


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## AussieWarriorFan! (May 30, 2005)

> Bogut was shut down in the NCAA Tournament by three second-tier Kentucky big men


Was that the game where he got double teamed for the entire game, and had a career high in assists, and shot badly?


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## DHarris34Phan (Oct 28, 2004)

AussieWarriorFan! said:


> Was that the game where he got double teamed for the entire game, and had a career high in assists, and shot badly?


No...he was basically triple teamed, still put up 20 and 12, and kept the game FAR closer than it should have been.










That was the defense he was subjected to most of the game, and still put up 20 and 12....


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## AussieWarriorFan! (May 30, 2005)

DHarris34Phan said:


> No...he was basically triple teamed, still put up 20 and 12, and kept the game FAR closer than it should have been.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hmmmmmm, so why didn't the rest of his team just take the rest of the shots?

I got Kentucky and Oklahoma games mixed, he shot 8-19 FG and 4-11 FT in the Kentucky game but didn't have any assits.

In the Oklahoma game he had a career high 7 assists!


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

DHarris34Phan said:


> That was the defense he was subjected to most of the game, and still put up 20 and 12....


:laugh: What a great pic.


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## MarvinWilliams#1in05 (Feb 13, 2005)

Sir Patchwork said:


> I'll let this speak for me. I'm not going to sit here and argue with a racist about why a certain race can't be good at a certain position at basketball. If you want to talk basketball, then that's what I'm here for, otherwise you're a waste of my time. Race has nothing to do with anything. Duncan isn't all that athletic, but since he is black, you have him pidgeon holed as a black and athletic post player. You have no idea how to draw lines and look at each player on an individual basis. Go ahead and respond with your "you're angry and need to take a break" type nonsense, but who do you think you're fooling? Everytime I've checked this forum today you've been on here, and if people were writing off your boy Marvin Williams because of something so irrelevant as race, you would get angry too, racism is something to legitimately be angry with. I'll just stop paying attention to you though, since you're really the first racist I've seen on these boards since I've been here. Your ignorance has made me appreciate how little of a factor race is on these boards, even through heated arguments, it doesn't become a factor. Good for you, don't expect me to ever respond to your posts again, until I bump your ignorance next season, when of course, you'll be missing in action.


For one, I'm white and played college ball and don't have a bit of racism in me. I'm just going by the recent history of white post players that seem to fail. If you want to write it off as racism from a white guy on a white guy then fine, but thats just retarded. It's simply a matter of recent history.


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## kawika (May 7, 2003)

As I've said before, I love the Brad Daughrety comparisons: Legit 7fter. Moves smoothly enough for the pivot, neither a freak or a stiff. An offensively versatile player who passes great. Not much of a shotblocker. A fair-to-plus rebounder when entering the league, but will improve to be very good on the boards. 


As to:



MarvinWilliams#1in05 said:


> *For one, I'm white and played college ball and don't have a bit of racism in me.* I'm just going by the recent history of white post players that seem to fail. *If you want to write it off as racism from a white guy on a white guy then fine, but thats just retarded.* It's simply a matter of recent history.


But let me guess, the reason other guys succeeded more than you wasn't because they were more talented, smarter, more dedicated, worked harder, etc. but because "you know, those black guys are just better athletes". How con-ven-ient.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

MarvinWilliams#1in05 said:


> For one, I'm white and played college ball and don't have a bit of racism in me. I'm just going by the recent history of white post players that seem to fail. If you want to write it off as racism from a white guy on a white guy then fine, but thats just retarded. It's simply a matter of recent history.



I still don't understand your point considering there have been just as many black post players that have been taken and failed. And of all those guys that failed, most or none of them did what Bogut did in college and you can also throw the international experience in there and the fact he has already proved, in a small sample, that he can hold his own on the court with some of the NBA's best.


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## MarvinWilliams#1in05 (Feb 13, 2005)

kawika said:


> As I've said before, I love the Brad Daughrety comparisons: Legit 7fter. Moves smoothly enough for the pivot, neither a freak or a stiff. An offensively versatile player who passes great. Not much of a shotblocker. A fair-to-plus rebounder when entering the league, but will improve to be very good on the boards.
> 
> 
> As to:
> ...


I'm not saying blck guys are even better than white guys at basketball. I'm saying in the low post, weak white guys with no athleticism don't do very well. Sorry, but personal insults aren't going to lead me down to your level.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

MarvinWilliams#1in05 said:


> I'm not saying blck guys are even better than white guys at basketball. I'm saying in the low post, weak white guys with no athleticism don't do very well. Sorry, but personal insults aren't going to lead me down to your level.



You are correct ... weak white guys with no athleticism don't do well in the low post. Of course, weak black guys with no athleticism don't either. I don't think Bogut, while being no Shaq, is necessarily weak. Nor is he really that un-athletic. His foot speed isn't great, but he's got a pretty decent vertical for his size.


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## Debt Collector (Mar 13, 2003)

i can understand being skeptical about the "big white stiffs". but come on, look at michael olowokandi. its obvious that bust centers come in all colors. you have to evaluate centers on a case by case basis.


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## sheefo13 (Jul 13, 2002)

I don't know what has come over me but I am beginning to get this feeling that Bogut will end up to be like Darko.... Please don't let it be true.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

sheefo13 said:


> I don't know what has come over me but I am beginning to get this feeling that Bogut will end up to be like Darko.... Please don't let it be true.



Which Darko? The Darko right now or what Darko might be in a few years?

I'd have a hard time letting anyone convince me that Bogut won't be at least a decent starting center.


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## sheefo13 (Jul 13, 2002)

The darko route... But the thing is it wouldn't work with the Bucks because they need a big man. I don't know, he just reminds me of Darko... Not sure why.


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

I believe that Bogut will at a minimum be a decent center and that he'll be able to contribute immediately.It's obvious that Milwaukee needs him to play and contribute.I don't expect him to ever be a superstar. The Darko comparison does not seem very relelvant.Darko was taken on as a project by a team where no playing time was available at his position or even on the entire frontline.
Bogut is a skilled player now,while Darko was selected based on his athletic ability and potential.


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## jalen5 (Nov 19, 2004)

Diable said:


> I believe that Bogut will at a minimum be a decent center and that he'll be able to contribute immediately.It's obvious that Milwaukee needs him to play and contribute.*I don't expect him to ever be a superstar.* The Darko comparison does not seem very relelvant.Darko was taken on as a project by a team where no playing time was available at his position or even on the entire frontline.
> Bogut is a skilled player now,while Darko was selected based on his athletic ability and potential.


I agree w/ you. AND that's why I take Marvin Williams instead of Bogut if I were the Bucks. I think Marvin Williams will be a superstar.


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## MarvinWilliams#1in05 (Feb 13, 2005)

jalen5 said:


> I agree w/ you. AND that's why I take Marvin Williams instead of Bogut if I were the Bucks. I think Marvin Williams will be a superstar.


Pretty sure thats what ive been saying all along. Bogut will be a solid nba center, but not a star, and if i were a gm I'd want a star with the number one pick.


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## SeaNet (Nov 18, 2004)

MarvinWilliams#1in05 said:


> Athletic ability of todays forwards would overshadow anything McHale could do to stop them. It would really be quite funny to watch.


And how does Marvin know this kids? Because Kevin is white!!!! Hall of Fame be damned, that white guy couldn't play!!!!


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## RunTMC (May 11, 2003)

> Actually being white and unathletic is an extremely relevant fact because the NBA style has turned into a game where guys like McHale and Walton could not survive. You need more than just size (which Bogut doesn't even have at 250 pounds) to be successful. No size and no athleticism spells trouble, which can pretty much be said about all the recent white centers to come into the league. As we all know last names don't affect play, but your abilities do.





> Has nothing to do with racism, its just a fact that white/unathletic centers haven't worked out for quite some time.


You do know what being racist means, don't you? This is the same type of crap that black football players had to go through even just 10 years ago, where it was just a "given" that black men couldn't play the quarterback position because they supposedly aren't smart enough. Ignorance never ceases to amaze me.


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## MarvinWilliams#1in05 (Feb 13, 2005)

SeaNet said:


> And how does Marvin know this kids? Because Kevin is white!!!! Hall of Fame be damned, that white guy couldn't play!!!!


No, because he has a two inch vertical and no foot speed. Todays stud forwards would run circles around him.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

I can't believe someone actually posted that Mark Blount is a good basketball player. This man is horrible. He's been horrible his entire career.


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

Marvin Williams will never see the day he's good enough to carry Kevin McHale's jockstrap.They put you in the Hall for a reason and McHale rates very well even against other Hall of Fame members.He could play today and be a star and he could play ten years from now.Your argument is stupid and you are clearly too obstinate to let go of it no matter how stupid you look.


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## BigMike (Jun 12, 2002)

Is he strong enough and athletic enough for the NBA level?

Yes. He's up to about 260 now, and although he's not a specimen athletically, he is athletic "enough." However, it will never likely be a strength of his.

Is he really as cocky as he is quoted? Is that a good or a bad thing?

He's definetely confident, probably cocky. But everybody is. Every great athlete thinks he's the best. Bogut doesn't just run his mouth, he busts his *** too. His work ethic is there, so is the desire, he's the type who'll back up what he says. I say this is a good thing.

How high is his ceiling? Is the potential there?

Yes, yes, yes!!! Too often, people associate athleticisim with potential too directly. Bogut's not some 7'5 mammoth, or some 6'11 skywalking freak with an 11 foot wingspan, but he's got great size, good strength, a nasty attitude, and the best IQ and skill set a center prospect has had in a long time. His skills will set him apart from other bigs in the NBA. He has a chance to be a very special player for a long time. The Duncan comparisons aren't that far off. Plus, he's still very young...just 20 years old.

Is he really worth a number one pick?

Yep. And not just this year, IMO. He's a very productive, skilled, center who's not just some softie who likes to shoot outside J's. He makes his living in the post and likes to work hard.

Which team would be the best fit for Bogut?

Well Milwaukee seems like a better fit than Atlanta with the personnel they have coming back...but, really, any good big man can fit in well on pretty much any team.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

MarvinWilliams#1in05 said:


> No, because he has a two inch vertical and no foot speed. Todays stud forwards would run circles around him.


well while they are running in circles, McHale will be laying the ball in the basket.
McHale had some of the best post footwork ever.

Speed doesn't mean very much on the block.


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## SeaNet (Nov 18, 2004)

MarvinWilliams#1in05 said:


> No, because he has a two inch vertical and no foot speed. Todays stud forwards would run circles around him.


This post (critiquing Kevin McHale's game) goes to show what MarvinWilliams#1in05 knows about basketball....

NOTHING!!!!


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## MarvinWilliams#1in05 (Feb 13, 2005)

SeaNet said:


> This post (critiquing Kevin McHale's game) goes to show what MarvinWilliams#1in05 knows about basketball....
> 
> NOTHING!!!!


Whatever you say smart guy.


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## MarvinWilliams#1in05 (Feb 13, 2005)

Diable said:


> Marvin Williams will never see the day he's good enough to carry Kevin McHale's jockstrap.They put you in the Hall for a reason and McHale rates very well even against other Hall of Fame members.He could play today and be a star and he could play ten years from now.Your argument is stupid and you are clearly too obstinate to let go of it no matter how stupid you look.


They don't let stupid people into Cal Poly, how's your future look bud?


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## MarvinWilliams#1in05 (Feb 13, 2005)

futuristxen said:


> well while they are running in circles, McHale will be laying the ball in the basket.
> McHale had some of the best post footwork ever.
> 
> Speed doesn't mean very much on the block.


How's he gonna get that layup off when a guy with a 36 inch vert and is 6-10 guarding him?


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## BigNasty (Nov 10, 2004)

Amplifier said:


> It will be hard to not take him #1. But I doubt he's a top player from this draft (Raef Lafrenz/Chris Mihm/Christian Laettner ruined my faith in white centers that excelled in college)


And Olowakandi, Kwame Brown, etc, haven't ruined your faith in black centres who were highly touted?


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## SeaNet (Nov 18, 2004)

MarvinWilliams#1in05 said:


> How's he gonna get that layup off when a guy with a 36 inch vert and is 6-10 guarding him?


Perhaps you've heard of a shot fake? Or a pivot? Or perhaps a pivot and a shot fake together? Oh, that's right, basketball for you is solely about athleticism, so you probably haven't heard of either of those things.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

MarvinWilliams#1in05 said:


> They don't let stupid people into Cal Poly, how's your future look bud?



You don't have to lie to be cool.....


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

MarvinWilliams#1in05 said:


> I'm not saying blck guys are even better than white guys at basketball. I'm saying in the low post, weak white guys with no athleticism don't do very well. Sorry, but personal insults aren't going to lead me down to your level.





> During a hour-long workout at the Bucks’ training facility in St. Francis, Bogut raised eyebrows with his agility around the basket, his good footwork and his ability to elevate, which he demonstrated on several occasions with high-flying, powerful one-hand throwdowns.
> 
> If anyone had any serious reservation about Bogut’s athleticism, they were emphatically dispelled with a performance that was *clearly better than the one turned in by Marvin Williams* a day earlier. Bogut and are the only two players the Bucks are considering for the No. 1 overall selection in the June 28th NBA draft.





> Bogut went 28 inches in a no-step, vertical leap and went 31 in a one-step, vertical test. Said one Bucks official: “That’s not good; that’s great for a guy his size.’’
> 
> Williams, meanwhile, was measured at 6-8 with shoes and weighed 228. He had a 29-inch no-step vertical leap and 33-inch one-step vertical leap. His body fat was 8 percent, while his wingspan was 7-3. His vertical reach was 8-11.



So much for the big white stiff crap. I have little doubt at this point that the Bucks will take Bogut first.


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## SeaNet (Nov 18, 2004)

Hey, JNice, you got a link to the rest of that bad-boy? On NBA.com I just found an interview and some pictures.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

SeaNet said:


> Hey, JNice, you got a link to the rest of that bad-boy? On NBA.com I just found an interview and some pictures.


Courtesy of hoopshype...

http://hoopshype.com/articles/bogut_woelfel.htm


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## DHarris34Phan (Oct 28, 2004)

SeaNet said:


> Hey, JNice, you got a link to the rest of that bad-boy? On NBA.com I just found an interview and some pictures.


Visit the Bucks Forum...everything you need to know there man....exact same article and much more!


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## DHarris34Phan (Oct 28, 2004)

*Andrew Bogut workout video (and extras)*

*Link*

Leave some feedback...in the Bucks forum :biggrin:


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## thekid (Apr 3, 2003)

*Re: Andrew Bogut workout video (and extras)*

At first I was excited because I thought it was Andrew Bynum, haha.


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## Vincanity15311 (Jan 30, 2005)

*Re: Andrew Bogut workout video (and extras)*

edit: in bucks forum


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## Shabadoo (Feb 12, 2005)

Andrew Bogut said:


> Oh yeah, I used to go on DraftCity quite a bit, but you guys changed now so I haven’t been on the new one yet. I haven’t been on the net for a while.


http://www.draftexpress.com/viewarticle.php?a=1013 

This guy is definitely an Internet Basketball Junkie. I think he's seen this site, and he posts here.

The guy loves a bit of Verbal Biffo, so if indeed he is a member, I think we can guess which one he is....

MarvinWilliams#1in05!?

Could it Be?


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## AussieWarriorFan! (May 30, 2005)

Even though Bogut has little time to go on the internet as it is, and even after he said in an interview he hasn't been able to go on the net in ages, i wouldn't rule it out him being on some bball forum and casually being a poster.


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

Anyone who cares, Andrew Bogut supposed to be on Best Damn Sports Show tonight.


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## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

"I’d rather win a gold medal for my country at the Olympics than an NBA championship"

That quote would have me a little concerned. It just rubbed me the wrong way. Bogut also said that Milwaukee hasn't told him they are taking him. They told him it's down to Marvin and him.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

TheATLien said:


> "I’d rather win a gold medal for my country at the Olympics than an NBA championship"
> 
> That quote would have me a little concerned. It just rubbed me the wrong way. Bogut also said that Milwaukee hasn't told him they are taking him. They told him it's down to Marvin and him.


It shouldn't. International players have more love for their countries, probably their country has love for them. If you weren't paying attention, many guys don't want to play because it's a hassle and they don't get any love for doing it, because even if they win, they're supposed to.

So of course Bogut would rather win a gold medal for Australia. He knows that is never going to happen (unless the Aussies get marketedly better than they are).


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Yeah can you imagine like for say, Yao Ming, what it would mean to win a gold medal for his country? There's no way a championship is on that level.

Manu explained it last night. A gold medal is something for your heart, that you win with friends and country. A championship is about you personally as a professional.


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

TheATLien said:


> "I’d rather win a gold medal for my country at the Olympics than an NBA championship"
> 
> That quote would have me a little concerned. It just rubbed me the wrong way. Bogut also said that Milwaukee hasn't told him they are taking him. They told him it's down to Marvin and him.


Yeah, that was on the show. I don't know, those international guys are different than ones here.

Did you hear Hawks are losing interest in Marvin cuz apparently he said hes never seen an NBA playoff game? It was on hoophype.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Wait. Marvin Williams has never seen a playoff game? That can't be right. That's impossible. Joke right? Please tell me that's a joke.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

futuristxen said:


> Wait. Marvin Williams has never seen a playoff game? That can't be right. That's impossible. Joke right? Please tell me that's a joke.


Yes, it was a joke. Yet for some reason they printed it. What major basketball star has never sen an NBA playoff game on television? Even in passing.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

HKF said:


> Yes, it was a joke. Yet for some reason they printed it. What major basketball star has never sen an NBA playoff game on television? Even in passing.


What any level of basketball player hasn't seen an NBA playoff game? Even if your like a rec center basketball player at age 8 or 9 you're still going to catch the playoffs.

It wouldn't make any sense to not see any NBA playoffs, considering that's the biggest marketed basketball event in the world.


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

futuristxen said:


> Wait. Marvin Williams has never seen a playoff game? That can't be right. That's impossible. Joke right? Please tell me that's a joke.



Yeah, I just read the line and now I just clicked the link and it said..

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/writers/ian_thomsen/06/23/draft.rumors/1.html



> There are also new whispers that Atlanta may be having second thoughts about picking Marvin Williams at No. 2 after he told the Hawks that he has never seen an NBA playoff game, which created questions about Williams' passion and commitment.



Maybe he meant been to one, as in seen ? I don't know.


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## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

dissonance19 said:


> Yeah, that was on the show. I don't know, those international guys are different than ones here.
> 
> Did you hear Hawks are losing interest in Marvin cuz apparently he said hes never seen an NBA playoff game? It was on hoophype.


Are you kidding me? Billy Knight's head is so far up Marvin's butt, they ought to get married. He loves Marvin. Maybe too much.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

..

Bogut Impresses Hawks


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

Ginobili has also said he would rather win a gold medal before an NBA title. That doesn't diminish the value of an NBA title, it's more of a testament to how much pride these guys have in their country, and how much it would mean for them to be able to lead their team (and country) to a gold medal.


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## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

I wouldn't mind Bogut in Atlanta..


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