# Do you Support the Marbury Trade?



## The True Essence (May 26, 2003)

its been a long while, and the knicks are a completely new team.

Things to factor in:
Laydens teams record sucked, but they were playing the tougher part of the schedule, and Frank Williams was emerging as the starting point guard and had won us 5 straight. They probably could have sucked their way to a 33-39 record, right where the knicks are now. Also, they would still have Lampe, rights to vujanic, and 2 first rounders.

Isiahs team lost a couple getting the chemistry together, but are still over .500. The knicks now have a franchise player, but are still way over the cap and have no draft picks. The team has underachieved at 6 under .500 when they were predicted to be a top eastern squad. Allan missing games bothered the team. The Thomas trade also screwed up some chemistry for a while.


----------



## Knicksbiggestfan (Apr 29, 2003)

To early to tell for me. Actually it's all about making the playoffs.


----------



## dcrono3 (Jan 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>PennyHardaway</b>!
> its been a long while, and the knicks are a completely new team.
> 
> Things to factor in:
> ...


I think Frank Williams would have a hard time leading us to a 33-39 record. He was really emerging, but to say he would do the same as Marbury is a bit hasty IMO. We would have the picks and etc., but we wouldhave been way out of the playoff hunt and us posters would de discussing about the draft. A lot worse than what we are now.


----------



## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

I voted too early to tell.

But there's a good chance our lineup this time of year would be: 

Eisley, Anderson, VH, McKnee, Thomas

I really can't find any stretch of the season that team would play .500 ball.


----------



## epic (Mar 16, 2004)

marbury is worth it. the knicks were never going to play the lottery game.


----------



## alphadog (Jan 2, 2004)

Marbury is a fine player but the trade is only as good as the team gets. If we don't become DAMNED good in the next year or two, the trade was a disaster because of how much we gave up. I'm not saying that either Vujanic or Lampe will be great but the chance of having one of them be pretty solid is good. I DO believe we would have sucked horribly this year and ended up with a real chance at the top pick. Even if not, we should have been able to get another solid supporting player. The team would have had a vacancy for a superstar only and the contracts would be starting to get cleared up...but....if the current teams develops and becomes a contender, I'm happy.


----------



## The True Essence (May 26, 2003)

if we didnt make the trade, 18.5 mil would come off the books, we would have another lottery pick, and thats pretty okay.

With the team we have now, we'll make the playoffs this year (barely), and next year you expect teams to get better, but how can we get better? the MLE exception is the only thing we have, no draft picks or anything. Will rasheed come here now that he has a real succesful squad in detroit? I doubt it. So lottery for two years without a lottery pick????????? 

Don Nelson said that Lampe is better then Dirk at his age. That doesnt sound good for us.


----------



## dcrono3 (Jan 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>PennyHardaway</b>!
> if we didnt make the trade, 18.5 mil would come off the books, we would have another lottery pick, and thats pretty okay.
> 
> With the team we have now, we'll make the playoffs this year (barely), and next year you expect teams to get better, but how can we get better? the MLE exception is the only thing we have, no draft picks or anything. Will rasheed come here now that he has a real succesful squad in detroit? I doubt it. So lottery for two years without a lottery pick?????????
> ...


so what if 18.5 million would come off our books? We would still be WAY off from even getting close to under the salary cap. We would still have only the MLE for the offseason even if we didn't make the trade, so I don't see how that is a point. Lampe may turn out to be a good player, but Marbury is already a good palyer. This success of this trade will be determined by the future of Lampe, Vujanic, and the draft picks. Not by cap space for sure.


----------



## The True Essence (May 26, 2003)

18.5 million is alot of money, that would bring us closer to getting under the salary cap, and we wouldnt have to pay such a gigantic luxury tax and Dolan wouldnt be that tentative to use the MLE. When we use it this year, our payroll will top 100 million, and were gonna pay an astronomical luxury tax, and fight for a lower seed in the east AGAIN.

people keep saying "were good now." Newsflash, we still suck. we barely beat crappy eastern squads(who we almost always play) and never really beat quality teams (indiana, last month was the last time). we live and die with Marburys shooting, if hes not shooting well, he doesnt do other things to get us in the game. He doesnt trust his teammates when were losing, and always forces up some crazy shots. 

we finished the tougher part of the schedule with our old team, now with the new team we mostly play atlantic division teams, yet were still struggling. we've improved by like 2 or 3 wins. Blame injuries whatever, but Houston was missing games earlier in the year too and we did fine. This team has greatly underachieved.


----------



## alphadog (Jan 2, 2004)

Hey dcrono3...I've got news for you. The trade will be judged on how WE do, not how well the Suns do. I thought the team was closer when we had VH because SM seems to do better when he is surrounded by good spot up shooters, but that has been covered ad nauseum. This what we have so we will live with it but I have the bigtime feeling that we are screwed for even longer than we were since H2O looks to be done and we have no one to replace him..not even close....and no way to get anyone. We are lousy on offense and even worse on defense...blah


----------



## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

> H2O looks to be done and we have no one to replace him


Give me odds and ill take Demmarr Johnson as a very viable replacement....

The guy has talent


----------



## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

> This team has greatly underachieved.


completely agreed....

but the time to rebuild was last year,when we had a decent draft pick..layden to McKnee instead....He,or Dolan could not admit the error of their ways and continued to shoot for the playoffs...We should have nuked the Knicks back then and didnt...

Now we are in it Knee deep and we may make the playoffs barring any more injuries...


----------



## nikebasketball (Jan 28, 2004)

*
Yes
*


----------



## dcrono3 (Jan 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>alphadog</b>!
> Hey dcrono3...I've got news for you. The trade will be judged on how WE do, not how well the Suns do. I thought the team was closer when we had VH because SM seems to do better when he is surrounded by good spot up shooters, but that has been covered ad nauseum. This what we have so we will live with it but I have the bigtime feeling that we are screwed for even longer than we were since H2O looks to be done and we have no one to replace him..not even close....and no way to get anyone. We are lousy on offense and even worse on defense...blah


I don't really agree. We might grade the trade by how well the Knicks do, but in truth the winner/loser will be decided by the young players/draft picks the Suns got. And even Knicks fans, such as Rashidi, will be judging the trade on the "potential." If Lampe and Vujanic turn out to be busts and the draft picks don't turn out well, we got the better end of the trade. If they do turn out well, ppl will say that we traded our future away. I still think Marbury will lead this team to at least some success, but in reality, the trade will be decided by the Suns.


----------



## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

> We might grade the trade by how well the Knicks do, but in truth the winner/loser will be decided by the young players/draft picks the Suns got.


Alfa,I have to side with DC on this one.....Face it,as of today,having marbury is worth more than Lampe,Vapornick,Mcknee,draft picks and the trash we unloaded...

But all we hear from the local bashers is potential,the future,blah blah blah.....If the knicks make the playoffs and we dont give up a top 3 pick and Lampe is a bust,we will never hear from the bashers again and it was a good trade..But you know dam well,should the Knicks miss the playoffs(even though we have played better than .375 ball with injuries to our starters) and Lampe turns into Dirk,this trade will be all about Lampe..In fact,the haters will bash the trade if we make it to the second round and Lampe avg 10 points a game next year...


----------



## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

Fyi, the Suns traded this year's Knick pick to Utah in exchange for cap room.

Cap room they plan to use to try and lure Kobe to Phoenix. So it won't be judged on whether or not they draft anybody good, it will be judged on whether or not Kobe seriously considers them.


----------



## dcrono3 (Jan 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Rashidi</b>!
> Fyi, the Suns traded this year's Knick pick to Utah in exchange for cap room.
> 
> Cap room they plan to use to try and lure Kobe to Phoenix. So it won't be judged on whether or not they draft anybody good, it will be judged on whether or not Kobe seriously considers them.


Good point, if Kobe actually does go to the Suns (which I doubt, but still) then the Suns might have got the better side of the deal.


----------



## alphadog (Jan 2, 2004)

Not true...the Knicks will be judged on what THEY do compared to what they could have done based on comparative players and events that have not yet happened. For example: if Lampe becomes a star, Vujanic is a very player, and the picks turn out to be a Hlario, Athony, Butler, or someone of that ilk, then IT got taken to the cleaners along with all of us. If the players available at those future spots are weak, and the Euros don't pan out, then we got a steal. Only time will tell.


----------



## dcrono3 (Jan 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>alphadog</b>!
> Not true...the Knicks will be judged on what THEY do compared to what they could have done based on comparative players and events that have not yet happened. For example: if Lampe becomes a star, Vujanic is a very player, and the picks turn out to be a Hlario, Athony, Butler, or someone of that ilk, then IT got taken to the cleaners along with all of us. If the players available at those future spots are weak, and the Euros don't pan out, then we got a steal. Only time will tell.


Exactly my point, If the players pan out we lose if they don't we win.


----------

