# 2005 top teams



## daveybreitz (Dec 17, 2003)

I know it is too early too speculate, especially with recruiting, but there are several teams that stand out amongst others.

Feel free to rip on it,
just my take

1. Duke, Deng is committed to staying, Williams Thompson and Randolph will make a solid front court. If Livingston comes, its icing.

2. Michigan State, Stacked- Davis, Brown, Torbert, Naymick, Hill

3. Arizona, Shakur is promed to take over this team. Should return Frye and Adams as well. Rodgers is solid and if Iguadala, though unlikely stays, they are deep.

4. Wisconsin, Harris is nations top returning pg, Paul leaves, and Butch steps up.

5. Kansas, If Simien stays they are unbeatable. Padget is a super prospect and giddens is a stud.

6. Illinois, Niether star is leaving, can only get stronger

7. Georgia Tech, Dickey brings in strength to a stellar backcourt.


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## kansasalumn (Jun 9, 2002)

The only prob I see with Kansas, is help for Simien since Graves is gone. I truly hope Padgett and Moody bulk up. As well as Niang. The front court also depends on Alexander Kaun and Darnell Jackson when they come abroad. Backcourt is stack with Miles, giddens, and Langford,t hen you have Lee, Wikes, and Hawkins as backup.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

The scary thing about the ACC is they were a young conference this past year:

Maryland will only lose Smith. They will be very good.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>daveybreitz</b>!
> 
> Feel free to rip on it,
> just my take


Well here's a rip - three Big Ten Teams in the top 6. :laugh:


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## texan (Jul 10, 2003)

texas anyone?- lemarcus aldridge, mike williams, daniel gibson, dion dowell, jason klotz, pj tucker, kenny taylor, kenton paulino and sydmill harris. that looks like a pretty good team to me

and of course unc if the sophs stay

felton, mccants, jr smith, jawad williams, marvin williams, sean may, david noel, jackie manuel and melvin scott. wow that should be a great great team


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

*Re: Re: 2005 top teams*



> Originally posted by <b>JuniorNoboa</b>!
> 
> 
> Well here's a rip - three Big Ten Teams in the top 6. :laugh:


Haven't they learned from this year. Michigan State just isn't that good.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

LaMarcus Aldridge is going pro. He hasn't even signed the LOI at Texas yet.


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## Nietzel (Mar 28, 2004)

*Re: Re: Re: 2005 top teams*



> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> 
> 
> Haven't they learned from this year. Michigan State just isn't that good.


When Michigan State plays a regular schedule like everyone else and gets a true point guard, Drew Nietzel, they should be a top five program. The Big Ten (MSU included) was just very young this year. They hardly lose anyone. It should be one of the top conferences again. Most of you act like you were born yesterday, but the Big Ten traditionally has multiple top twenty-five teams. Odds are if they have a bad season one year, they won't have another bad season the next year.

Here is my top 5 for what it's worth -

1.Wisconsin - Top Ten team at the end of the season, Big Ten champs, return every significant player. Add to that the fact that their second leading scorer who has been injured most of the year will come back, and they will get a High School All-American, Brian Butch, who redshirted this year to bulk up.

2.North Carolina - We all know their story. This is assuming none of them leave early.

3.Duke - Is Luol Deng staying? I haven't heard that. The last I heard, Jay Bilas was talking about how he though he'd go pro since his family are Sudanese refugees.

4.Michigan State - I don't want anyone to give me crap about this pick. I don't know what happened to them this season, or why they were ranked so highly. However, I do know that they finished the season strongly, almost finishing ranked. They return every significant player, including HS All-American Shannon Brown, HS All-American and 4th team All-American Paul Davis, Big Ten second teamer Chris Hill, Big Ten third teamer Kelvin Torbert, Olympian and pro prospect Maurice Ager, and returning starting PG Alan Anderson. All they needed, in my opinion, was experience along with an easier schedule and a true point guard. Well, they got all three of those. Drew Nietzel, Mr. Michigan basketball, is committed to Michigan State.

5.Kansas - David Padgett, J.R. Giddens, Wayne Simien, heck I could list you their whole roster. They've got one hell of a talented team coming back next season.

Honorable mention -
Wake Forest, Syracuse, Connecticut, Gonzaga, Texas, Memphis, Michigan, Stanford, Illinois, Maryland


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## deranged40 (Jul 18, 2002)

Well kansasalum how exactly did Graves help Simien? By saving Simien the fouls by fouling out about every game? :laugh: No seriously though, for all of Graves shortcomings, his strength and his bulk will be greatly missed if Padgett doesn't get any bigger, hopefully either Kaun or Jackson can step in and take his place as a banger down low.


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

Um...Wake Forest, anyone?


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: 2005 top teams*



> Originally posted by <b>Nietzel</b>!
> 
> 
> When Michigan State plays a regular schedule like everyone else and gets a true point guard, Drew Nietzel, they should be a top five program. The Big Ten (MSU included) was just very young this year. They hardly lose anyone. It should be one of the top conferences again. Most of you act like you were born yesterday, but the Big Ten traditionally has multiple top twenty-five teams. Odds are if they have a bad season one year, they won't have another bad season the next year.
> ...


i'm not convinced davis will be back and gonzaga will be very young, they lose about 5 seniors out of their rotation.


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## ill subliminal (Apr 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>deranged40</b>!
> Well kansasalum how exactly did Graves help Simien? By saving Simien the fouls by fouling out about every game? :laugh: No seriously though, for all of Graves shortcomings, his strength and his bulk will be greatly missed if Padgett doesn't get any bigger, hopefully either Kaun or Jackson can step in and take his place as a banger down low.


Dude let's not play around with underestimating the incredible value of Graves. He is the best low post defender and saves Simien for offense, he sets lots of great screens. Although I think his graduation will be more than offset by Giddens turning into a 18 ppg scorer. KU should be #1 on these lists, IMO, especially because Langford will continue to improve and Miles might.


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## Ghost (Jun 21, 2002)

Does anyone know is Chris Paul of josh Chrildress are staying.


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## kcchiefs-fan (Oct 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ill subliminal</b>!
> 
> 
> Dude let's not play around with underestimating the incredible value of Graves. He is the best low post defender and saves Simien for offense, he sets lots of great screens. Although I think his graduation will be more than offset by Giddens turning into a 18 ppg scorer. KU should be #1 on these lists, IMO, especially because Langford will continue to improve and Miles might.


I agree. Graves is huge, and if Kaun and Jackson are unfinished products (and it seems that they are), than the frontcourt will be a little thin next year. However, Giddens will be improved, we're returning 3 All-Conference 1st team candidates, and we're getting Robinson who looks to be a stud. And don't forget Hairston continues to list Kansas............I can dream, can't I:whoknows:


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>#1Stunna</b>!
> Does anyone know is Chris Paul of josh Chrildress are staying.


chris paul should stay and childress recently said he was staying.


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## Quasi-Quasar (Jul 18, 2002)

1. North Carolina: Starting 5 of Sean May, Marvin Williams, Ray Felton, Rashad McCants Jawad Williams...that's scary. Marvin is my preseason pick for freshman of the year in the ACC for sure and probably the nation (Jordan Farmar, Al Jefferson, Randolph Morris and a couple others have a good shot too). IMO Marvin could have a Melo-like year, except the very scary thing is that he might be better than Melo (he's a better handler/passer, defender and athlete, shooting is a toss up) the only real question is can he win like Melo does, does he have that killer instinct.

2. Duke: Same old, same old. Deng, Williams, Redick, Ewing and either Nelson or Livingston is a pretty good lineup any way you look at it, but like this year they'll lack size at 2/3 unless Livingston starts.

3. Illinois: Dee Brown wont grow to 6-6, but he's one of the best scoring guards in the NCAA with Bracey Wright (who really has no limit on his jumper).

4. Mich St: They get back pretty much everyone and add a year of maturity and some frontcourt depth in the recruiting class.

5. Maryland: They could be #2 or #3 if Ikene Ibekwe adds 40 pounds (that would put him at 230), but since that wont happen, they're right here. Strawberry and Ibekwe with a year of experience are possibly the best defensive forward duo next year (although Mata and Ariza, and a couple other tandems are also up there).

somwhere from 6-15. UCLA: It's a bit much to expect of the super frosh class (which is #1 in recruiting if Hairston commits finally) but Hollins, Fey, Mata, Ariza, Shipp, Afflalo, Morrison, Thompson, Bozeman, Farmar and likely Hairston give the Bruins amazing depth. Mata and Hollins are just about as good a shotblocking tandem as Okafor and Villanueva. Ariza, Shipp and Hairston are amazing perimeter defenders. Bozeman always has his height advantage and Farmar defends well too (with his quickness). This team is ready for Howland ball, and you all saw how well Pitt has done over the last few years playing his style, with lesser talent I might add. 


wont be top 15:
1 Stanford: they get Childress back but lose Lottich, Davis, Little and all three were crucial to Stanford's season (although Davis was injured much of the season).

2. Wisconsin: Harris will declare for the draft (his father got layed-off so the decision has been made for him pretty much) and that leaves the Badgers in trouble.

3. Gonzaga: If Turiaf stays that helps, but losing Stepp and Violette really hurts them.

4. Texas: They lose basically their starting 5 and it's unreasonable to think that Gibson and Aldridge (if he even goes) can lead a team as frosh's.


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## deranged40 (Jul 18, 2002)

I was just joking about Graves, I did say that his bulk and defense would be missed down low.


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## daveybreitz (Dec 17, 2003)

thanks the goods,

I didnt put Texas on there because even if Aldridge comes to Austin, having two freshmen as team leaders will likely not lead to a succesful season.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

You can't leave out Georgia Tech. If they get Randolph Morris they should be preseason No.1. 

They only lose Marvin Lewis, Clarence Moore and Robert Brooks. One starter (role player) and two bench players (one important, the other not so)

They bring in 4 top 75 players (two top 50)
Zam "Buck" Frederick - PG
Anthony Morrow - SG
Jeremis Smith - SF (has a chance to be real good)
Ra'Sean Dickey - PF


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## Hollis (Jun 4, 2002)

Oklahoma State anyone? They lose Allen but that's about it...John Lucas, Joey Graham, Ivan McFarlin, Daniel Bobik all return, and Stevie Graham will probably start in Allen's place...I really think OSU has a good chance at winning the Big 12 again next year. Kansas should be really good too though...


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Hollis</b>!
> Oklahoma State anyone? They lose Allen but that's about it...John Lucas, Joey Graham, Ivan McFarlin, Daniel Bobik all return, and Stevie Graham will probably start in Allen's place...I really think OSU has a good chance at winning the Big 12 again next year. Kansas should be really good too though...


That's right McFarlin is going to earn his year back. Yeah OSU will be a top 10 team as well. However, w/o Tony Allen they will struggle a little bit, not much but a little.


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## WhoDaBest23 (Apr 16, 2003)

North Carolina: Assuming everyone stays and Marvin Williams comes in, this will be a top team no matter what. Plus they have Roy WIlliams as coach. The talent is definitely there, but they just have to have the killer instinct and want it enough.

Duke: If Luol Deng stays and Shaun Livingston comes in, this is gonna be one heck of a team. Losing Duhon's leadership and toughness might be hard though. I hate Duke, but gotta appreciate great talent. 

Maryland: This team is young and definitely has potential. I think Ibekwe will have a big year next year. He's Maryland's Chris Bosh. I don't think they're losing too much, so this team should be more than fine. 

The ACC is just gonna be great next year, once again.

I might be going out on a limb here but...

UCLA: After one year with Ben Howland, this team will not want to have another losing season next year. They're incoming freshmens next year are gonna be studs during their college careers. They may lack some size in the middle, but they're gonna be a top 25 team IMO. 

A lot of these have ASSUMPTIONS and IFS. It's hard to predict the future...


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## bleedingorange (Feb 8, 2004)

What about the Orangemen?!? Are you guys forgetting about them? They lose nobody (if Warrick stays like he should) and have two outstanding recruits coming in with Josh Wright (the next great Cuse point guard) and Dayshawn Wright, who followed Carmelo's lead by improving his game at Oak Hill. Talk about the Big Ten and ACC all you want but the Big East will be the best conference in the country next year...


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## mr.ankle20 (Mar 7, 2004)

10 Louisville
9. Kentucky
8. Kansas
7.North CArolina
6.Arizona
5wake forest
3 texas
2 georgia tech
1.duke


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## sov82 (Nov 5, 2003)

*Conferances*

Big East and ACC will be the top two conferances next year.

They are losing very few players this year outside of Gordon and Okafor. Barrett is the only other player I can think of off the top of my head.

UCONN will still be loaded next year. Their frontline is loaded.
Syracuse will be good again next year
ND will have Thomas back and Francis healthy
Pitt will be strong
Villanova will be a top 15 team especially if Fraser is healthy
Providence will be strong if Gomes returns
West Virgina will be a bubble team
BC will be strong as well


Im not sure if any of these Big East teams are top 10 teams to start the year. But the league will be very deep next year. College Basketball will be very deep next year in the ACC and Big East.


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## The Truth (Jul 22, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>daveybreitz</b>!
> I know it is too early too speculate, especially with recruiting, but there are several teams that stand out amongst others.
> 
> Feel free to rip on it,
> ...


A little too much love for the Big 10 here.

Wake Forest and North Carolina are going to be absolutely sick. Nearly every team in the ACC will be better next year, which is scary considering how tough the conference was this year.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Just remember that Michigan State for the past 3 years has been in the 7-10 game in the tournament. That's not a top 15 team.


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## sov82 (Nov 5, 2003)

*But but but*

But Tom Izzo's tough schedule prepares his team the best for the tournament! How can this be?


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

*Re: But but but*



> Originally posted by <b>sov82</b>!
> But Tom Izzo's tough schedule prepares his team the best for the tournament! How can this be?


Good one.


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## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

in no order i'm going to talk about some of the teams i expect to be at the top.

north carolina for obvious reasons. if may, felton, and mccants come back they will be great.

duke will also definately be at the top and that explains itself.

uconn will still be a top team if ben gordon comes back. i think he is really the key guy for the team this year. if he leaves, they should still have a good team but borderline top 25.

texas is going to be a top team next year, but i expect them to start near the middle to bottom of preseason top 25s and have to work their way up. those lose ivey, mouton, boddiker, and thomas. but that is only 2 of their starters from the end of the year. gibson and aldridge will come right in and start along with kenny taylor, jason klotz, and someone else. i could see tucker, harris, or maybe dowell getting the other starting spot. they still will have one of the deepest teams in the country with buckman, paulino, moreno, williams, and atchley also getting minutes.

kansas should be very good if everyone comes back. miles, langford, giddens, simien, and padgett should be one of the top starting lineups in the country. and that would give them 3 seniors that have as much postseason experience as anyone in the country with 2 final fours and 1 elite eight.

oklahoma state will be up there again next year. they lose allen and he is their best player, but they have guys that have show the abililty to step up. with lucas, mcfarlin, graham, and bobik all returning to start, they should be almost as good as they are this year.

oklahoma should also make a return to the top 25 and be a very good team. they were a team lead by young players this year and as they got more experienced they got better. i expect them to be pretty good.

illinois will be a top team with the possibly the best backcourt in the country. they will be the best team in the big 10 and one of the best in the country.

arizona, wake forest, georgia tech, maryland, nc state(if hodge returns), michigan state, wisconsin(if harris returns), and pittsburgh should also all be pretty good teams next year.


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## Nietzel (Mar 28, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> Just remember that Michigan State for the past 3 years has been in the 7-10 game in the tournament. That's not a top 15 team.


Michigan State has also been to the Elite Eight 3 of the last 5 years.

Just don't confuse the past with the present.


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## Hollis (Jun 4, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> 
> 
> That's right McFarlin is going to earn his year back. Yeah OSU will be a top 10 team as well. However, w/o Tony Allen they will struggle a little bit, not much but a little.


I agree, losing the best player in the Big 12 will hurt....but IMO Joey Graham will be a superstar...Stevie Graham will surprise some people as well. He was penciled in as the starting point (at 6'7) before Lucas came...


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## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Nietzel</b>!
> 
> Michigan State has also been to the Elite Eight 3 of the last 5 years.
> 
> Just don't confuse the past with the present.


they also lost in the 1st round this year to a 10 seed. that is more recent than any elite eight run that they have made.


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## rebelsun (Nov 25, 2003)

I honestly don't think Duke will skip a beat next year. They do lose Duhon, but they have Dockery behind him, get frosh DeMarcus Nelson, and maybe Shaun Livingston.

Here's their (potential) roster for next year:

PG Livingston 
SG Reddick
SF Deng
PF Randolph
C Williams

Bench:
Ewing
Dockery
Melchionni
McClure
Johnson

W/ or w/o Livingston, I like them for next year.

Texas and NC will have lots of talent, and could be scary.

Arizona brings back every key player along w/ another wing freak in McClellan and some help down low w/ Tangara. I think they could do some damage:

PG - Shakur
SG - Stoudamire
SF - Adams
PF - Tangara
C - Frye

Bench:
Rodgers
Radenovic
McClellan
Fox
Walters

Georgia Tech will be great also.

My top three are: 

1.) Duke
2.) GTech
3.) Arizona


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## jdavisgt (Mar 31, 2004)

whats michigan state doing at number 2?!?! :upset: georgia tech is having a tremendous season and when they are the tournament champions, that will give them alot more respect and make them probably number 3 behind duke and uconn.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Two things rebelsun. 

Shavlik Randolph will not start for Duke as that would mean they have no capable back-ups to play the 5 outside of Shelden Williams. 

Next Jesus Verdejo signed with Arizona so the roster will most likely look like this for both teams. I am also assuming Livingston will go pro. He is a consensus Top 7 pick right now and the only word I hear out of Peoria is he is keeping everything close to the vest. 

Duke
PG - Dockery (Jr.)
SG - Ewing (Sr.)
SG - Redick (Jr.)
SF - Luol Deng (So.)
C - Shelden Williams (Jr.)
Bench
SG - DeMarcus Nelson (Fr.), SF - David McClure (Fr.), SF - Melchionni (Jr.), C - Randolph (Jr.)

I think this team w/o Livingston is the 4th best team in the ACC a year from now (with 5 ACC teams being in the top 15 teams in America). Other scrubs like Patrick Johnson won't ever get any PT. 

Your Arizona roster looks fine. IMO, if GT gets Randolph Morris they will be the preseason No.1 team in America. 

Look at what they return and it will be the first time that Paul Hewitt has been able to use all of his scholarships to fill out a roster. 

Starters
PG - Jack (Jr.)
SG - Bynum (Sr.)
SG - Elder (Sr.)
PF - Anthony McHenry (Sr.)
C - Luke Schensher (Sr.)
Bench
PG - Zam Frederick (Fr.)
SG - Mario West (R-So.)
SG - Anthony Morrow (Fr.)
SF - Isma'il Muhammad (Sr.)
SF - Jeremis Smith (Fr.)
PF - Ra'Sean Dickey (Fr.)
PF - Theodis Tarver (Jr.)
C - Randolph Morris (Fr.)

Look at that team. It is freaking stacked. It's bad enough they return 7 Junior and Seniors, but they will bring 5 top 75 (3 top 50) players a year from now. Hewitt is building a monster down there in Atlanta.


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> Hewitt is building a monster down there in Atlanta.


No freakin' kidding.

If Kansas lands Malik Hairston (it's between KU and UCLA right now, with several "sources" indicating KU), I think Kansas will be equally as stacked:

PG -- Aaron Miles (Sr.)
SG -- Keith Langford (Sr.)
SF -- J.R. Giddens (So.)
PF -- Wayne Simien (Sr.)
C -- David Padgett (So.)
Bench
G -- Malik Hairston (top 10, Fr.)
G -- Russell Robinson (top 25, Fr.)
G -- Mike Lee (Sr.)
G -- Omar Wilkes (top 75, So.)
G -- Jeremy Case (So.)
G -- Jeff Hawkins (Jr.)
G -- Stephen Vinson (Jr.)
G -- Nick Bahe (So.)
F -- Darnell Jackson (top 75, Fr.)
F -- Christian Moody (Jr.)
C -- Sasha Kaun (top 25, Fr.)

Moulaye Niang is rumored to transfer, but nothing's official yet.


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## SheriffKilla (Jan 1, 2004)

Stanford should at least be mentioned

only 2 losses this season

Childress, Nick Robinson
Hernandez are coming back


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## Hollis (Jun 4, 2002)

Kansas has 17 players? Wow...


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>fjkdsi</b>!
> Stanford should at least be mentioned
> 
> only 2 losses this season
> ...


Childress is not necessarily coming back. He is testing the waters now. He is a first round pick and I don't think he could improve his stock at all with another year of college. He is a role player on the next level, whether he comes out this year or next year. He is going to have to fit in as a Battier type to succeed. 

VV you are right, Kansas will be extremely deep. I have them as one of my No.1 seeds for the 2005 NCAA tournament (I know it is too early for it). Kansas will be a favorite to cut down the nets.


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## LionsFan01 (Aug 7, 2002)

Michigan anyone? They've torn through the NIT so far(haven't been able to watch the championship tonight though) and the only person they lose is Bernard Robinson. They can answer MSU's Paul Davis down low with Courtney Sims and Illinois backcourt of Brown/Williams with Horton/Abram or Horton/Harris. If they can continue to develop and progress like they have this season, they will be serious contenders in the Big Ten.

Nationally however, the ACC is going to dominate. Duke, Maryland, Georgia Tech, North Carolina, and Wake Forest will all boast potential top 10 teams. That conference is going to be TIGHT.


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## jmk (Jun 30, 2002)

*University of Maryland*

C- Ikene Ibekwe (Hassan Fofana)
PF- Travis Garrison (James Gist)
SF- Nik Caner-Medley (DJ Strawberry)
SG- Chris McCray (Mike Jones)
PG- John Gilchrist (Earl Risby?)


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## SportsGuru5 (Jul 15, 2002)

_Illinois backcourt of Brown/Williams with Horton/Abram or Horton/Harris_ 

That matchup hasn't worked yet. Michigan should contend in the Big Ten next season, but for the first time in three years, the improvement will have to come from individual progress among current players instead of a freshman infusion of talent.


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## kansasalumn (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Hollis</b>!
> Kansas has 17 players? Wow...


during the post season and road games, Kansas had to sit 2 of their players

I heard Moolaye, WIkes, and Hawkins as the players rumored to transfering.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Hawkins and Niang are scrubs. So is Moody.


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## vadimivich (Mar 29, 2004)

> Look at that team. It is freaking stacked. It's bad enough they return 7 Junior and Seniors, but they will bring 5 top 75 (3 top 50) players a year from now. Hewitt is building a monster down there in Atlanta.


Which is why this "Hewitt to St. John's" crap is ****ing stupid. Remember that GT also had the last 2 ACC rookies of the year, who are both gone now (Ed Nelson and Chris Bosh). 

GT is one of the best engineering and sciences schools in the country, the fact that he can recruit that kind of talent on a yearly basis is mind blowing, especially to a place like that.


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## kansasalumn (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> Hawkins and Niang are scrubs. So is Moody.


I agree with you on two of 3. Moody is not one.


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## Fordy74 (May 22, 2002)

*Re: Conferances*



> Originally posted by <b>sov82</b>!
> Big East and ACC will be the top two conferances next year.
> 
> They are losing very few players this year outside of Gordon and Okafor. Barrett is the only other player I can think of off the top of my head.
> ...


You need to add Rutgers on the Big east list. They made the championship game of the NIT with two freshman starting Guards. Marquis Webb and Quincy Douby who lit up Iowa st for 35 points.


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## kentuckyfan13 (Dec 26, 2003)

Kentucky will be top 10 and St.Joes will be top 15


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## daveybreitz (Dec 17, 2003)

*all right*

I took a lot of **** for putting so much faith in Michigan State. Allow me to defend this.

This year the Spartans were rated a pres-season top ten team by every publication and a top three by many pundits. Though the year was a dismil failure many positive things were noticible.

First is that Paul Davis is a stud. Is able to move with ease in the post and now that he had to battle through hardship his attitude and maturity should match the talent.

Shannon Brown is an amazing dude. I think everybody agrees that he is capable of being a Gilbert Arena type player as a sophmore.

Kelvin Torbert is a leader and may have a breakout year as a senior. Though undersized he is a workhorse and personifies what a solid colege player should be.

If Naymick or Neitzel can step up and contribute on a nightly basis or have Anderson play a little bit better are there many more complete teams


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## Tigerfan_2002 (Nov 29, 2003)

I think Memphis will have their best team since Penny was here. They bring back every body but one starter. Its definately the best team Cal has ever coached on the college level.

They bring in a really good recruiting class.

Shawne Williams 6-9 230 #1 SF by Rivals
Darius Washington 6-0 170 # 6 PG by Rivals
Richard Dorsey 6-8 250
Andre Allen 5-9 190 
Simplice Njoya 6-10 225 Transfer from Duquesne
Kareem Cooper 6-11 295

And still recruiting another guard or Wing to finish out the class
Waki Williams hes a Cali Juco


Sean Banks and Shawne Williams are big matchup problems for most teams 6-9 guys who can post up and stroke the 3. And Darius Washington should step right in and start at the point.


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## vadimivich (Mar 29, 2004)

> Its definately the best team Cal has ever coached on the college level.


Better than his 1996 UMass team that went to the Final Four? I mean, I like Memphis and all - but that's a strong statement.

That team had:

Marcus Camby
Edgar Padilla
Carmelo Travieso
Dana Dingle
Donta Bright
Tyrone Weeks

They beat Stanford, Arkansas and Georgetown to get to the Final Four and then lost a tough game to Kentucky ... I'd have to say that is still Cal's best college team.


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## Tigerfan_2002 (Nov 29, 2003)

This team has 3 players that will all be lottery picks. Sean Banks was this years ESPN Freshman of the Year after averaging 18 points and almost 8 rebounds a game. This season he had to play a lot of PF at 6-8 200 because they were lacking big men, next year he will start at SF and get a lot of minutes at the SG spot. I'm not sure a lot of other schools will have a SG that can stop a 6-8 player from posting up or shooting over them. They will also have Shawne Williams who at 6-9 230 is more talented than Banks. And they still have Darius Washington Jr who is a pure scorer. The only way people stoped Banks this season was to double team him, I hope they double him next season because if you leave D-Wash of Williams open they're going to burn you. Cals UMASS team that went to the final four only played 6 players, this team is going to have one or two of this seasons starters coming off the bench. I'm not trying to say they are the best, they're not. But Cal even said he can't wait til next year because he has never had this much talent.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

*Re: Re: Conferances*



> Originally posted by <b>Fordy74</b>!
> 
> 
> You need to add Rutgers on the Big east list. They made the championship game of the NIT with two freshman starting Guards. Marquis Webb and Quincy Douby who lit up Iowa st for 35 points.


But they lose Lamizana and Axani. Are Joynes, Hill, Waterstradt and Bailey ready to step up and be primetime players in the paint? They are going to have to, to compete in the BE. Is Ricky Shields really a leader as a senior? I think Rutgers finishes middle of the pack again if they can't win any road games (which will be much tougher w/o Miami and Virginia Tech in the league next year).


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## SuperNova (Apr 2, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>daveybreitz</b>!
> 1. Duke, Deng is committed to staying, Williams Thompson and Randolph will make a solid front court. If Livingston comes, its icing.
> 
> 2. Michigan State, Stacked- Davis, Brown, Torbert, Naymick, Hill
> ...


Duke, obviously, if Deng stays (which it seems like he will.) Consensus presesason #1.

Mich. St.? Nope. Not there yet. I'll put them in the bottom half of the top 25. They need a legit PG.

Arizona.... Eh... after doing so little with so much talent this year, I'll have to pick against them again. More talent doesn't always make you better if you can't play together. Too much chemistry issues.

Wisconsin. Word is Harris is leaving. That drops them down a bit. Bottom of the top 25.

Kansas. Didn't show me much during the season (though I only saw them twice before the tourny). I like Simien (needs to stay healthy, though), but can't always count on incoming freshmen to produce. Somewhere between 10 and 20.

Illinois. Yes, they're up their. Especially how they gelled at the end of the season

Georgia Tech. Yes. They'll be getting better. Not as much talent as some other teams, but they play together so well they should stay in the top 10.


As for others.... people have already mentioned UNC. Incoming freshman should help their depth issues. Kentucky should be top 10. Still have tons of talent, and Tubby will keep it together. Maryland will move up, but probably not top 10. Losing Smith will hurt them more than people think Ibekwe isn't ready to step in yet (though that could certainly change. He really needs to step up for Maryland to succeed). As for Uconn, it depends how good Gay is. They'll have formidable front line with Boone and Villanueva, but could be anywhere from top 10 to out of the 25.


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## Nimreitz (May 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Tigerfan_2002</b>!
> This team has 3 players that will all be lottery picks.


That's not true at all. If they're lucky they'll get one.


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## BrYaNBaIlEy06 (Jul 15, 2003)

*Re: Re: 2005 top teams*



> Originally posted by <b>JuniorNoboa</b>!
> Please keep Chris Duhon in your prayers.



:laugh:


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## ThePhenom (Apr 1, 2004)

*Re: Re: 2005 top teams*



> Originally posted by <b>SuperNova</b>!
> As for Uconn, it depends how good Gay is. They'll have formidable front line with Boone and Villanueva, but could be anywhere from top 10 to out of the 25.


Don't worry, Gay will fit in perfectly.


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

*Re: Re: 2005 top teams*



> Originally posted by <b>SuperNova</b>!
> Kansas. Didn't show me much during the season (though I only saw them twice before the tourny). I like Simien (needs to stay healthy, though), but can't always count on incoming freshmen to produce. Somewhere between 10 and 20.


Kansas' starting lineup next season will consist of three seniors (Miles, Langford, Simien) and two sophomores (Giddens, Padgett). Although KU does have a top 10 class coming in (top 3 if Malik Hairston commits), the Jayhawks won't be relying on freshman to produce, at least not until the later part of the season. KU will have the most experienced lineup in the nation next year, and if Hairston comes to Lawrence, the most talented and deepest backcourt as well.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Tigerfan_2002</b>!
> This team has 3 players that will all be lottery picks. Sean Banks was this years ESPN Freshman of the Year after averaging 18 points and almost 8 rebounds a game. This season he had to play a lot of PF at 6-8 200 because they were lacking big men, next year he will start at SF and get a lot of minutes at the SG spot. I'm not sure a lot of other schools will have a SG that can stop a 6-8 player from posting up or shooting over them. They will also have Shawne Williams who at 6-9 230 is more talented than Banks. And they still have Darius Washington Jr who is a pure scorer. The only way people stoped Banks this season was to double team him, I hope they double him next season because if you leave D-Wash of Williams open they're going to burn you. Cals UMASS team that went to the final four only played 6 players, this team is going to have one or two of this seasons starters coming off the bench. I'm not trying to say they are the best, they're not. But Cal even said he can't wait til next year because he has never had this much talent.


That UMass was one of the two best teams in the nation in 1996 along with Kentucky.

I don't care how much deeper or more talented this Memphis team is, its just not reasonable to say they are the best of a lot that includes a top two team. 

BTW, Memphis will be considered for my top 10 next year. They will be close.


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## Tigerfan_2002 (Nov 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Nimreitz</b>!
> 
> 
> That's not true at all. If they're lucky they'll get one.



Which two of these players do you not see going lottery?

Sean Banks
Darius Washington JR
Shawne Williams


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Tigerfan_2002</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You have a better chance of Banks, Carney and Williams as opposed to Darius Washington. Washington has to prove he will not be selfish at PG and become a leader and passer. He is not Iverson and can't play 2G on the next level.


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## BrYaNBaIlEy06 (Jul 15, 2003)

Mississippi State - only IF Roberts comes back.


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## rebelsun (Nov 25, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Tigerfan_2002</b>!
> 
> Shawne Williams 6-9 230 #1 SF by Rivals
> Darius Washington 6-0 170 # 6 PG by Rivals
> ...


:upset: :no: 

Simplice totally reneged on a commitment to UNLV, and wound up at Duquesne. He should have just come to Vegas. However, I am glad he is with a decent program now.


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## KirkSnyderFan (Dec 22, 2003)

I think definetly Nevada if Kirk Snyder comes back, if not I think UNR could be in the top 15.

Homer pick=yes
Blinded by the home team= not really


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## Tigerfan_2002 (Nov 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>RebelSun</b>!
> 
> 
> :upset: :no:
> ...



From what I heard, Duquesne just wasn't giving him enough playing time.


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## Nimreitz (May 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Tigerfan_2002</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Banks has the best chance. I don't see Williams or Washington going in the lottery. And if Banks doesn't live up to expectations next year, or shows a glaring flaw (perhaps like Ike Diogu this year) he could slide out.

On another note, we have Andy Katz's 2004/2005 rankings....

1. Kansas
2. Duke
3. Georgia Tech
4. Wisconsin
5. Illinois
6. North Carolina
7. Wake Forest
8. Maryland
9. Syracuse
10. UConn

So we see two Big Ten teams in an expert's top 5. Maybe they haven't been over rated (as us badgers and my illini "friends" have been saying all year). 5 ACC Teams; it's crazy how good that conference is.


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## Ghost (Jun 21, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>KirkSnyderFan</b>!
> I think definetly Nevada if Kirk Snyder comes back, if not I think UNR could be in the top 15.
> 
> Homer pick=yes
> Blinded by the home team= not really



Kirk Snyder entered the NBA Draft. He signed a agent.


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## Tigerfan_2002 (Nov 29, 2003)

> Banks has the best chance. I don't see Williams or Washington going in the lottery. And if Banks doesn't live up to expectations next year, or shows a glaring flaw (perhaps like Ike Diogu this year) he could slide out.



I've seen Williams play and he handles the ball and shoots better than Banks. If Williams played his senior year he would have been talked about jumping straight to the NBA.


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## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

my top 25 for now(the top 25 teams i think will be the best next year, not how i think they will be ranked).

1. uconn(if gordon stays, if not they move down to 8)
2. north carolina
3. kansas
4. duke
5. illinois
6. georgia tech
7. oklahoma state
8. texas
9. kentucky
10. maryland
11. wake forest
12. pittsburgh
13. arizona
14. memphis
15. st joe's
16. syracuse
17. oklahoma
18. mississippi state
19. cincinnati
20. alabama
21. wisconsin
22. michigan state
23. louisville
24. stanford


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## KirkSnyderFan (Dec 22, 2003)

> Kirk Snyder entered the NBA Draft. He signed a agent.


Yeah I know, I was the one that posted it here.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Tigerfan_2002</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> I've seen Williams play and he handles the ball and shoots better than Banks. If Williams played his senior year he would have been talked about jumping straight to the NBA.


He would be a lottery pick this year if he had played this year. Good for Memphis  , bad for the League as of right now.  

He is going to be a star after a year or two at Memphis. No doubt in my mind. People need to stop forgetting about Rodney Carney. He is got some Desmond Mason in his game with a better jumpshot at 6'7-6'8.


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## ThePhenom (Apr 1, 2004)

UConn will struggle a little bit at the beginning of the year I think. They'll get even younger with the additions of Gay and Price, who will play huge minutes for the Huskies. On a positive note, they won't have any seniors next year, although I don't expect Villanueva to make it to his junior year. That being said, they've built a great foundation and should be great for the years to come.

PG - A.J. Price
SG - Rashad Anderson
SF - Rudy Gay
PF - Charlie Villanueva
C - Josh Boone

Reserves: Denham Brown(G/F), Marcus Williams(G), Antonio Kellogg(G), Ed Nelson(F), Marcus White(F), Hilton Armstrong(F)

This is all assuming Ben doesn't come back obviously. If he does, you might as well consider not playing the season and just giving UConn the title once again.


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## Tigerfan_2002 (Nov 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> 
> 
> He would be a lottery pick this year if he had played this year. Good for Memphis  , bad for the League as of right now.
> ...


I haven't forgotten about Carney, I think he could really shine next year. With other teams worried about D-Wash, Banks, and Williams I think he may get some open looks and really step up big.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ThePhenom</b>!
> UConn will struggle a little bit at the beginning of the year I think. They'll get even younger with the additions of Gay and Price, who will play huge minutes for the Huskies. On a positive note, they won't have any seniors next year, although I don't expect Villanueva to make it to his junior year. That being said, they've built a great foundation and should be great for the years to come.
> 
> PG - A.J. Price
> ...


UConn has a very good chance to repeat even though Ben Gordon will not be coming back. The reason I think they can better than any other team is that for one all of their supporting players are pretty good. Like for example Boone and Villanueva if they keep the natural progression could be all-Big East players next year. Rashad Anderson might be the best shooter in the country and Rudy Gay might be the biggest impact freshman, coupled with so much size off the bench in Nelson, White and Armstrong (who all have experience and are at least Juniors in age) and they stand a very good chance to defend their crown. 

How tough will it be to beat a UConn team that doesn't have to worry about foul trouble in the paint? 

You get Boone and Villanueva in foul trouble and Nelson, White and Armstrong come in and dominate the boards.

I am picking UConn preseason No.1 and they will win back to back titles.


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## Nimreitz (May 13, 2003)

Losing Okafor and Gordon is a little too much for a team to recoop from.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

Here is why I think it is inappropriate to put UConn #1. Because no one would agree to put Syracuse anywhere near there at the beginning of this year.

Let's compare the two

Syracuse 2003: Lost Carmelo, Duany, Bring in Great Recruiting Class,
UConn 2004: Loses Okafor, Gordon, Brown, Bring in Great Recruiting Class

2003 - Syracuse 30-5, 2004 - UConn 31-6.

So why should UConn deserve #1 in preseason if you were unwilling to put Syracuse there last year?

Who has / had more returning talent? It's probably pretty even. Do they have three players that stand up to Warrick, GMac, Edelin? I don't think so, maybe a little deeper though.

Syracuse ended up with a #5 seed. Is that UConn's ultimate fate? Most likely not

- SU's second best player, Edelin became a druggie.
- Syracuse's recruiting class was a dud.

These were major factors in holding SU back, that UConn should not have to face. I think UConn will be a top 10 team, and inherently a top 10 team might well contend for the #1 spot during points of the seasonand the national championship.

But I don't think they deserve the #1 ranking, based on the precedent established last year.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Rudy Gay will end up being a better player than Hakim Warrick. Also there was no precedent started by Syracuse. They would have been able to compete for back to back titles if Edelin didn't have problems. No one forsaw that happening. Syracuse was on pace for a 3 seed or better before they lost him. 

Next year Syracuse is a top 7 team (if Warrick returns of course). They could have defended their title if they didn't lose Edelin.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

Anyway, here is my top 15 for now. For the second year in a row, I have Duke as #1.

1. Duke
2. Wake Forest
3. Kansas
4. Illinois
5. Georgia Tech
6. Uconn
7. Maryland
8. Wisconsin
9. Alabama
10. UNC
11. Washington
12. Kentucky
13. Pitt
14. Memphis
15. Syracuse

Out of the Big East I also expect Notre Dame (possible top 10) and Villanova (possible top 20) to be very strong.

Notre Dame and particularly Chris Thomas seemed to finally get it at the end of the Big East season.

Add in Francis (who was injured for the entire second half) and Lattimore, and the foundation is there for a top 10 team.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> Rudy Gay will end up being a better player than Hakim Warrick. Also there was no precedent started by Syracuse. They would have been able to compete for back to back titles if Edelin didn't have problems. No one forsaw that happening. Syracuse was on pace for a 3 seed or better before they lost him.
> 
> Next year Syracuse is a top 7 team (if Warrick returns of course). They could have defended their title if they didn't lose Edelin.



I agree - that is why I am not discounting the real possibility that UConn can compete for the national title.

I just think there is too much uncertainty from the loss of superstars to put them at preseason #1 - make the new team earn it.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Here are my reasons for UConn being able to defend their title. I will break them down. I will give my pre-season predictions after the NBA deadline and I have some time to really write some in-depth stuff.

1. Frontcourt Dominance - UConn has 5 guys who are 6'8 or bigger on the interior (3 of which are 6'10) in Marcus White, Ed Nelson, Charlie Villanueva, Josh Boone and Hilton Armstrong. Boone and Villanueve are the youngest ones and yet they will start. UConn will have 7 years of experience in college basketball coming off the bench at the 4-5 spot (Nelson (3), Armstrong (2), White (2) and none of them will be seniors. Scary. All of them can score in the paint and defend. Marcus White is a rebounding machine. Armstrong might end up the best big man of all of them. Boone is developing quite rapidly. 

2. Great Perimeter shooting - A healthy Denham Brown and Rashad Anderson are two of the best shooting perimeter players from the 3 point line in college basketball. Villanueva will probably be more inclined to exercise his versatility from the perimeter as well. The Huskies will have a very balanced inside-outside attack that will make it tough on their competition.

3. Excellent recruiting class - Rudy Gay (WF), AJ Price (PG), Antonio Kellog (WG). Three very good backcourt players led by Gay and Price. Gay has the Carmelo factor going for him, in that he can take over a ball game by scoring at will. Price is just another of those superstar NYC PG's that I love so much (reppin Long Island no less). If Gay can blend in w/o being a ball hog (doesn't seem to be in his personality) than UConn will have one of the top perimeter offenses in the nation. 

4. Experience - Outside of Gordon, Okafor and Brown - UConn returns so much from the championship run and in White and Nelson two guys who were around all year but yet were unable to play because of an injury and redshirt respectably. Marcus Williams will also be back from academic ineligibility and the with him and Price to man the PG spot they are both better than Taliek Brown anyway and will be an upgrade from a decision making standpoint (less TO's) and better shooting the rock. Boone and Villanueva are only going to get better and they will be hard to stop on the low block. 

5. Star Potential - Rashad Anderson started showing that he had some serious shooting ability that made him one of the top 25 prospects in the class of 2002. If he continues to develop his dribbling and his slashing game, with that jumpshot he could write his ticket to the NBA. Josh Boone and Charlie Villanueva could both become a double figure scorers and in Boone's case he could become a double double guy with a few blocks quite easily. Rudy Gay, is just a fabulous talent and at 6'9 it is scary that he will playing the small forward spot. If UConn were to play Duke again, how the hell would they match-up with Gay, if they can't start Williams and Randolph together (w/ Deng at SF) because they have nobody else. They would have to put someone like JJ Redick on him (total mismatch). 

What could ruin their season: If you ask me, the 2004-05 UConn could have more collective talent than the 2003-04 team. Reason why, is the natural progression of improvement by guys who gain more responsibility and the impact of super frosh, transfers and guys coming back off of redshirts. However, how will UConn deal with the target on their back all year. They will be more talented and stronger in the paint then basically every team they face next year, but who will assume the leadership role? Will selfishness over shots and guys looking to the NBA audition take away from the team play? Those are usually factors in destroying a promising season. I would think that Calhoun may press (similiar to the 1998-99 team) to get all of these players PT to keep them happy. Either way, it's a great problem to have.


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## Ghost (Jun 21, 2002)

1. Kansas
2. North Carolina
3. UConn
4. Georgia Tech
5. Duke
6. Illinois
7. Maryland
8. Wisconsin
9. Wake Forest
10. Texas
11. Kentucky
12. Pittsburg
13. Syracuse
14. Alabama
15. Memphis


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## Nimreitz (May 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>JuniorNoboa</b>!
> - SU's second best player, Edelin became a druggie.


Can you break down for us what actually happened? I haven't heard a thing about him.


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## sov82 (Nov 5, 2003)

*Next year's UCONN team*

Three Questions with UCONN's team next year...

1. Who will take over the point guard role?

2. Can Anderson play the 2 spot and be that secondary ball handler?

3. How will the front line mesh together with playing time?


They will be a title contender but Im not sure about a preseason #1.


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## ThePhenom (Apr 1, 2004)

*Re: Next year's UCONN team*



> Originally posted by <b>sov82</b>!
> Three Questions with UCONN's team next year...
> 
> 1. Who will take over the point guard role?
> ...


1. A.J. Price should start and Marcus Williams will be one of the better backup PGs in the country. Price is one of the best PGs in the high school class of 2004 this year and he can shoot, a trait that UConn hasn't had at the point very often.

2. Anderson played the 2 a good amount this year when Taliek would be on the bench and Ben would slide to the 1. He's not a great ballhandler, but it's something that can be worked on and I think it'll improve.

3. Not sure what you're getting at here. You mean how much time will each player get? I think Villanueva and Boone will get the majority of the minutes, and then the other couple big guys will get around equal minutes. Calhoun will find a way. He did this year with all the talent they had.


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## sov82 (Nov 5, 2003)

*Well*

I wouldn't just hand the job to Price yet. He is a great prospect but he isn't going to be given the job. Don't forget, Calhoun has always loved the point guard who plays within his system and plays hard nose defense.(Ollie, Moore, Taliek) They don't need to be a scorer to get PT at the point for Calhoun.

Anderson needs to improve as a secondary ball handler. If UCONN played a pressing team this year and Taliek was on the bench, he was quickly brought back in. Why? Not because of Gordon...but because Anderson wasn't skilled enough yet to be that secondary ball handler.

Forwards & Centers:
White 
Hilton
Nelson
Charlie
Boone
Gay
Brown
Thompson

120mins for 8 guys. Gay, Boone, and Charlie all have lottery potential. Hilton and White both are incredibly athletic. Nelson will be a favorite of Calhoun. D. Brown, when healthy, is a lethal shooter with late 1st round potential. Thompson can shoot the rock but is the obvious odd man out.

All these kids are young and gifted. They all need playing time to develop that killer instinct on the court. See Georgia Tech this year....young, deep, talented....didn't have that killer instinct to win it all.


As far as Junior's comments...Two different situations between the two teams. Not only does UCONN have a great class coming in, they have kids who practiced with the team this year and didn't get tons of playing time.

Armstrong
Williams
White
Charlie
Nelson
Thompson

Even Denham Brown at the end of the year was playing 12mins a game due to injuries. The recruits UCONN is also bringing in are also more ready to make immediate contributions to the team compared to Syracuse's recruits (who will end up being good players...they still needed time to mature this year however)


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## Hollis (Jun 4, 2002)

> 1. Duke
> 2. Wake Forest
> 3. Kansas
> 4. Illinois
> ...


No love for O-State? They only lose 1 player....


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