# The real problem...Dunleavvy?



## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

How many of you put the blame on Dunleavvy for this skid?

We can say the injuries of course are playing a big role, but honestly, on paper the clippers minus those guys are still better than all of these terrible teams that they are loosing to. 

Dunleavvy is a great personnell guy it seems, also knows his X's and O's. But two things have concerned me the last couple of years:

1. Rotation - He seems to use very strange rotation techniques, and more often than not it seems the team on the floor does not gel well together and/or there is a strong weak link that is just left out there. Take tonight for example. Most of you guys were partying, so probably didnt see the game, but if you TIVO'd it youll notice that Mccarty was left in the game for some odd reason for 8 minutes, even over wilcox, even though he did absolutely nothing on either end of the floor. He was bringing the whole team down. Sure its nice to let him in against his old team, but were trying to win ball games. Also he goes from singleton being the end of the bench, lots of DNP's to being a starter? Shows that he really cant make up his mind. Singleton of course shouldnt start (when maggs comes back) but he should have been getting minutes the whole season. Especially since hes a dunleavvy type player with the rebounds. ANyone see his 3 offensive rebound dunks? We havent had that since mikki moore. 

2. Play calling. First of all, have you noticed how few times the clippers actually get into their "offense." If the offense isnt working, youve got to change it, you cant put all the blame on the players. What about plays coming out of timeouts? Ever notice how the other team usually has success coming out of a timeout? Clippers must turn the ball over more than not out of timeouts it seems at times, and rarely do you see a well designed play that results in a basket out of one. Last year more than this, the end of the game play calling just baffled me. How many times did we see the ball in rick brunsons hand, how many times did we se NO play develop in crunch time? This year during crunch time, and last shot chances, we see the play designed to give brand the ball in the post agasint a player 5 inches taller than him, taking the ball out of your two clutch players mobley and cassell.

Yes, its easy for anyone to play armchair coach. Im not saying i could be a better coach than dunleavvy. These are just things that are bothering me, and really i dont know where to point the finger anymore. We have one of the most clutch PG's in the game. THE most talented young PG in the game, one of the best 7 foot centers in the game, an MVP candidate in Brand, One of the best one on one players, a solid 18 point player, and best 3 point shooters in mobley, weve got a PF that people think could start in wilcox, weve got rookies who probably would get 20 minutes a game on some of the worse teams in the leage in ewing and singleton.....etc. etc. This is WITHOUT the players we are missing, yet we still cant beat a depleted kings team? A very subpar boston team? not to mention the other losses recently? 

If its just me who thinks some of the blame should be on dunleavvy, ill accept that and wont bring it up again. But i was just wondering if any of you feel the same way.


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## PAIDNFULL23 (Jul 9, 2005)

Yamaneko, I couldn't agree with you more, you hit it right on. It seems as if Dunleavy gets out coached by other coaches. For example tonight, Doc Rivers had his players keep attacking the Clips weaknesses play after play. They were relentless in attacking the rim off the dribble because the Clippers couldn't stop penatration. Also when the Celtics ran their offense, after the ball was thrown into the post they were cutting and getting easy lay-ups and dunks all game. The Clippers also seem like they don't know how to play a zone defense. Players were all out of place and they seemed like they never practice a zone in practice. Dunleavy seems like he doesn't know how to get his players easy baskets, evident by what you said, they can't convert out of timeouts. When the Clips have the ball, there is no movement whatsoever and everyone stands around and watches the guy with the ball and the lack of ball movement allows the defense to set in and it makes everyone easier to guard. Sometimes it looks like they don't even have a play called and the Clippers don't have players great one on one players so a lot of the time they don't even get a shot up before the 24 sec clock expires. Again, I totally agree with what you are saying and it's not just you.


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## ClipsBetterthanLakes (Aug 15, 2005)

I was at the game and I was very dissappointed with the hustle and too many turnovers. We were down 10 points in the 3rd and had chance 3 times to get it down to 8 and it never happended. Clippers right now are in deep trouble, I really do believe we need Corey back to have any chance of getting in the playoffs.

We have lost 7 out of 9. 

NEED COREY BACK!!! and cut McCarty, he just doesnt have any business playing basketball at this level.


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## Wilmatic2 (Oct 30, 2005)

Agreed.


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## Dynasty Raider (Nov 15, 2002)

Well ... I was really encouraged at the start of the game:

* He started Singleton
* Started Sam instead of Shaun (w/Sam)

End of 1st quarter:

* Brings in Shaun while Sam was still in the game --- THAT DOES NOT WORK. They both NEED the ball in their hands.

2nd quarter:

More of the same, Shaun w/Sam and then Walter for James. To me that is where he made his primary mistake ... they couldn't get back into rhythm.


BUT ... haveing said that ... none of that had anything to do with the horrible game that Brand had. (If you read my other posts, you know that I am the only one that has a problem with the "lean" Brand.)

Short of that ... I have nothing to say about what is happening to us.

BTW: I think Wilcox has quit on the team because of Dunleavy. What I saw out there from Chris looked like a guy that just didn't care; his footwork was atrocious. He was quickly snatched and I understand why. Then he was thrown for garbage time. LET CHRIS GO!!!!!


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## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

> * He started Singleton
> * Started Sam instead of Shaun (w/Sam)


I too thought it was a good sign, and did start out quite well. I guess dunleavvy couldnt handle it.


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## M-Blade (Oct 19, 2005)

If the Clips just sit back and wait for injuries to heal then we're just going to continue losing and will struggle to secure a playoff spot.
It is imperative that we make a trade or a sign a FA... and have others have said we should trade Wilcox and get rid of the worthless McCarty


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## sertorius (Sep 24, 2005)

I was at the game, and I gotta say that there's a lot I agree with, and disagree with here. 

Right off the bat I can tell you that yeah, the rotations SUCK. Why hasn't Singleton played more? I've seen him twice in person and he busts his butt out on the court, so I have no idea why he hasn't played a consistent role off the bench. Quite honestly, he is a better rookie than Korolev. And speaking of Korolev, I think that it was he who dragged the team down in the second quarter. I'll agree with you Yamaneko that McCarty didn't add anything to the team, but watching Korolev it almost literally felt like he was dragging the team down, and I have no idea how long he played for, but it felt like way too long. And yes, the Shaun-and-Sam-playing-together-at-the-same-time experiment was a nice thought, two play makers on the floor at the same, but it simply does not work.

Having said all of that, there are other, bigger issues with this team that have nothing to do with coaching. First of all, there is a complete reluctance from our MVP, Brand, to attack. Last night he had 7 points at the end of the 1st quarter, and I thought he was on his way to a 30 point or so game, but he essentially disappeared the rest of the game. I for one would like to 1) see him demand the ball, and 2) attack the basket with authority, or at least take more shots a game. Say what you will about kobe bryant, but that guy will go down shooting, Elton seems reluctant to take "too many shots," and frankly, if he, who has the highest FG% in the team doesn't do it, I don't much care for any of the other choices. Secondly, does anyone else want to take a shot? Last night's game was plagued by overpassing. Everyone kept trying to pass to someone else, and aside from Cassell in the 3rd quarter, no one wanted to take a shot. Seriously, I'd rather see bad shots, than overpassing that leads to turnovers. Thirdly, and this is also related to my second point, Shaun Livingston has to look for his shot too. He's a pass-first point-guard, and a playmaker, but seriously, the other team doesn't even try to guard him when he's open, because he doesn't seem to want to take a shot, it's almost like playing 5 on 4 out there. Finally, I don't think there's too much coaching that can be done about effort. I hate to say it, but this team flat out quit last night. They looked sluggish, depleted, and quite honestly, bored to be playing there. 

Something is wrong with this team, that's for certain, but I don't think coaching is the biggest issue here.


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## qross1fan (Dec 28, 2004)

Too lazy and tired to read everything but imo the problem is that we have *NO* offensive spark what so ever, at least with Maggette out. Signing Spree or GRob is looking like a must do, every day. Wonder if we can get him from Minny for McCarty + both our 2nd rounders.


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## alexander (May 6, 2005)

I think we should try to trade something for Radmanovic, the Sonics don't use him so much. Maybe McCarty + Ewing or some combination with McCarty


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## Starbury03 (Aug 12, 2003)

The problem is that EB is not attacking the basket anymore, no one can stop him off the dribble but he settles for too many J's. And the last two games Kaman can score easy down low but doesnt get the ball enough.


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## sertorius (Sep 24, 2005)

qrich1fan said:


> Too lazy and tired to read everything but imo the problem is that we have *NO* offensive spark what so ever, at least with Maggette out. Signing Spree or GRob is looking like a must do, every day. Wonder if we can get him from Minny for McCarty + both our 2nd rounders.



To me this just seems desperate. I'd rather they trade for someone who can help right away, and in the future. To this moment though, the best trade I've seen is yours, with Wilcox going to NJ for Cliff Robinson + Wright (but then, that doesn't do much for the now).


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## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

I'd say it's hard to fault this all on Mike.. But there has definatly been some very wierd substutions and choices throughout the games lately.....


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## Weasel (Oct 18, 2003)

The biggest issue lately has been defense. Dunleavy emphasizes defense so I can't see how he is to blame. I blame the team right now, no fire and no passion out of them. They are missing some spark and seem to be playing lazy on the defensive side. Dunleavy without Maggette was winning alot so the problem has to be not Dunleavy as he still has Maggette. Looks like Ross is much more valuable then most think.


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## sipclip (Jan 21, 2005)

Totally agree Yamaneko. I really can't stand Dun at all and his stupid substitution patterns and putting guys in the doghouse so quick kills me. I think Dun lost the respect of our players when he did the stupid hack a Ben and Duncan. Imo it embarassed our players and it showed completely undeserved lack of respect for our players who had been playing there butt off for him up to that point.


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## ClipOre4Life (Oct 25, 2005)

I don't know about that but then again who knows.


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## compsciguy78 (Dec 16, 2002)

Dunleavy sucks. There was a game earlier in the season where the Clippers were up and he decided to foul and put the other team on the line so the Clips would have the last shot. I think it was against the Timberwolves. Anyways, it was a bonehead coaching move and it doesn't look like its getting better.


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## sipclip (Jan 21, 2005)

It was against the spurs and that was when he lost the respect of his players.


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## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

Well i dont think its coincidence that dunleavvy's contract hasnt been extended. Do you think its safe to say that if the clippers do NOT make the playoffs this year that he will be let go? Otherwise i dont know why they would delay in extending the contract.


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## qross1fan (Dec 28, 2004)

I don't see all this hate on Dunleavy when he's not sure on what rotation to use because our bench is NON-EXISTANT and INCONSISTANT along with Kaman. Brand's our only consistent player as of now, and behind him, it has to be Sam with Maggs out. Dunleavy's experiminting with the rotations as of now and is trying to get time for the young'ns(Napos;Dong, Korolev) some PT and see what they have. This is the rotation we should run IMO.
Cass/Ewing/Cat/Brand/K-Pax
have Singleton and Wilcox come in as 6th and 7th men, Livingston 8th and rest get little playing time.

Run a 8-Man rotation like PHX did


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## sertorius (Sep 24, 2005)

sipclip said:


> It was against the spurs and that was when he lost the respect of his players.



He's already explained this: he told Brand, if Duncan gets good position on you (that is close to the basket), and he starts to make his move, foul him, and put him on the line. Considering that Duncan was 1 for 11 up to that point, and considering how "automatic" Duncan is anywhere near the basket I don't think this was a bad idea. As it turned out however, Brand lost sight of where he was and fouled Duncan 20 feet from the basket, and Duncan went 2 for 2 from the stripe. Thems the breaks. However, and people seem to forget this now, he set up a good play for the team to win the game with the last shot, but Mobley messed up and decided to throw a crappy pass to Kaman who was already going for the offensive rebound. After that the team collapsed in the overtime, and got themselves the L, but when you consider they played that game without Maggette, or any discernable contribution from the bench, they gave the Spurs all they could take that night.

Now as for the rotation: why does everyone think that THEY know what it should be? I caught some of the lakers' radio broadcast last night, and that's all I heard from the announcers too, why doesn't Phil do this? Why isn't this person in? Why this? Why that? It's exactly the same thing that's going on with Larry Brown and the Knicks. Seriously, everyone here who's coached an NBA team to a Championship, or the Western Conference Finals (twice in Dunleavy's case), put your hand up... Anyone... I thought not.


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## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

qrich1fan said:


> I don't see all this hate on Dunleavy when he's not sure on what rotation to use because our bench is NON-EXISTANT and INCONSISTANT along with Kaman. Brand's our only consistent player as of now, and behind him, it has to be Sam with Maggs out. Dunleavy's experiminting with the rotations as of now and is trying to get time for the young'ns(Napos;Dong, Korolev) some PT and see what they have. This is the rotation we should run IMO.
> Cass/Ewing/Cat/Brand/K-Pax
> have Singleton and Wilcox come in as 6th and 7th men, Livingston 8th and rest get little playing time.
> 
> Run a 8-Man rotation like PHX did



Hard to argue with that.. He doesnt have a great deal to work with in some areas.... And Mike as good as he is as a coach.. Can't turn water into whine.


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## ElMarroAfamado (Nov 1, 2005)

i have said since Daniel Ewing played that he is a good pg, and he started him

against the Blazers last game....what was the result???


he had a great game.. for a rookie and his defense cancelled out whichever turnovers he had


i still think Daniel Ewing should start right now with all our injuries...if he doesnt.....


we can be in for a long sucky year.....     

and what i was afraid of is coming true....our losing...lackluster efforts...streaks...horrible play...



maaan


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## sipclip (Jan 21, 2005)

sertorius said:


> He's already explained this: he told Brand, if Duncan gets good position on you (that is close to the basket), and he starts to make his move, foul him, and put him on the line. Considering that Duncan was 1 for 11 up to that point, and considering how "automatic" Duncan is anywhere near the basket I don't think this was a bad idea. As it turned out however, Brand lost sight of where he was and fouled Duncan 20 feet from the basket, and Duncan went 2 for 2 from the stripe. Thems the breaks. However, and people seem to forget this now, he set up a good play for the team to win the game with the last shot, but Mobley messed up and decided to throw a crappy pass to Kaman who was already going for the offensive rebound. After that the team collapsed in the overtime, and got themselves the L, but when you consider they played that game without Maggette, or any discernable contribution from the bench, they gave the Spurs all they could take that night.
> 
> Now as for the rotation: why does everyone think that THEY know what it should be? I caught some of the lakers' radio broadcast last night, and that's all I heard from the announcers too, why doesn't Phil do this? Why isn't this person in? Why this? Why that? It's exactly the same thing that's going on with Larry Brown and the Knicks. Seriously, everyone here who's coached an NBA team to a Championship, or the Western Conference Finals (twice in Dunleavy's case), put your hand up... Anyone... I thought not.



That's a crock Brand new exactly what he was doing and it was because Dun told him. It was an idiotic thing to do and he lost the respect of his players. The game before was even worse with Wallace because it embarassed our players who actually want to play ball instead of stupid hack a Wallace.


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## qross1fan (Dec 28, 2004)

Hack-A-Walllace did work. If you saw the game, you would have seen what I meant, but our players couldn't grab one single rebound. If infact the Clippers would have grabbed the rebounds, the outcome would have been much closer if not different. I've personally coached before so I know what went through Coach D's mind. Anytime your down by 10 with 6 minutes left, no matter the momentum, and you don't have your biggest offensive spark and the other team has a disgusting FT %, you try to get him on the line. But if your team can't rebound, then it's not your fault and it was no mistake. Against the Spurs, who wouldn't have fouled someone who shot 1/11 from the FT line prior to that? Ask any coach when there up by two at the SBC Center and Duncan is 1/11 from the FT line during the game, if they'd let Spurs get a possible 3 point play, or Horry/Finley/Tony hits threes or take the chance and foul Duncan? 8 out of 10 would say they'd foul. What if they hadn't fouled and then Big Shot Bob hit a three, how many people would have criticized Dunleavy for not fouling Duncan. A scenario like that was game 2 of the finals where Kome hit the game winning shot. Pistons were up two with about 10 seconds left If i'm not mistaken, Shaq had the ball, Pistons didn't foul and Kome hit the game winning shot. Coaching means taking gambles, if they don't work, I see no reason on why the Coach takes 90% of the blame. I mean during the Pistons, Clippers rebounded worse then Kwame Brown, during the Spurs game, Clippers CHOKED on the final play of regulation. Blaming Dun for the players not being to execute is just DUMB.


EDIT: I wanted to put in a little comparison since I was watching the WSOP(World Series Of Poker). Let's say your friend put up 5 Grand each for the 10 G buy in and your friend ends up going. It's the final table, and your friend goes All-In with Aaron Afflalo's(Pocket Aces) and he gets called. If the Flop/Turn/River end up giving whoever he was against a better hand knocking your friend out, are you going to blame your friend for going with the best strategic plan? No, and that's what Dunleavy did. Duncan was 1/11 from the FT line . . .that's less then 10%! He just ended up being clutch


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## sipclip (Jan 21, 2005)

Hack a Wallace worked but don't you think our team was a little embarassed that our coach wouldn't let them just play even though we were getting back into the game without hack a Wallace? Fouling Duncan was just a giant load of crap when we have a 2pt lead. I don't give a damn if Duncan is 0-20 he has been a clutch player his whole career and if you ask him to beat you he usually will. You need to trust your players who have played hard for you and if you don't then you better be careful because they might quit on you.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

Weasel said:


> The biggest issue lately has been defense. Dunleavy emphasizes defense so I can't see how he is to blame. I blame the team right now, no fire and no passion out of them. They are missing some spark and seem to be playing lazy on the defensive side. Dunleavy without Maggette was winning alot so the problem has to be not Dunleavy as he still has Maggette. Looks like Ross is much more valuable then most think.


I thought defense was going to be an issue at the start of the year, to my surprise, it wasn't. They were one of the best defensive teams for a long time, but it looks like it's finally catching up to them. I just look at the Clippers roster, and Elton Brand is really the only great defender on the team. Cassell is slow and unathletic at his age, Mobley and Maggette are below average to average. Kaman and Wilcox are below average, both are easy to get in the air, both are soft in the paint on defense. Ross is a good defender though, but he is considered a backup for Maggette or Mobley. 

They have 4 guys who are 20 point scorer types in their starting lineup, but they aren't good defenders (exception of Brand), so it's shocking to me that they were playing defense as well as they were for that long. 

So in conclusion, I think Dunleavuy has done a fantastic job defensively. Offensively, I don't know. He has a lot of isolation players, so the plays he wants them to run might not be executed as well as he wants them to. Defensively, he needs to get them to rekindle the fire, because that was a big reason for the great start.


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