# 2010 Panthers Offseason Thread



## Diable

We've just released a bunch of guys. Jake wasn't a surprise. Same day we releaseed DT's Maake Kemoeatu and Damione Lewis and linebackers Na'il Diggs and Landon Johnson.Today we released Brad Hoover after ten years with the team along with kickoff specialist Rhys Lloyd who has already been picked up by the Vikings. I guess this all means that we're really going to skew younger next year. Too soon to make a final judgement, but right now our defense looks like it's going to terrible up front right now. I was fine with letting Peppers go given that we could pay three other guys and he really hasn't had much impact compared to his cap number. Don't like letting all these guys loose unless we're going to replace them. Especially Kemo. We cut him because he was making a lot of money, but we have nothing on the d line now. Have to wait and see, but it really looks like we're in salary cutting mode and that we're in salary cutting mode for no other reason than to cut salary.


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## nutmeged3

I don't really know what to think either. It's too soon to tell whether Richardson is doing all of this to go along with fixing the CBA or to fix our team. I havn't liked all the moves we've made but most of them we really needed to do. I just know we've operated off the core of our team from '03 for a long time and it hasn't really gotten us anywhere since then which is why I'm kind of leaning toward liking the direction were going in. I don't see Fox going into free fall mode in the contract year of his contract so I doubt he would sign off on the decision to just pack it in this season and rebuild. All the cuts we've made so far have been at positions where we've had young guys that have been waiting around and we're just putting a lot of faith in them to step up. James Anderson, Tony Fiametta, Everette Brown/Charles Johnson, and whoever the hell lines up at DT next season are really gonna have to grow up fast and replace these veterans. We might not be great next season but I think we're going in the right direction. 

Move I'm waiting on is whether or not Kasay is gone next. Losing Rhys really makes it hard to keep him because he just doesn't have the leg to kickoff anymore and that'll be a move nobody will like in Carolina. Maybe it means getting rid of Baker for a punter that can kick off but I'm thinking it might be the end for #4 soon.


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## Diable

That's the first thing I thought when I heard Lloyd was gone. Kasay's probably a borderline hall of fame placekicker IMO. Look at just how great he's been and how many other kickers have been as good. Still he's just woeful at kicking off...Maybe he's even worse now. Lloyd wasn't as good as I'd like either really, not for a guy who's getting paid for nothing else. Kasay was absolutely killing us with bad field position the last time he kicked off...I think he's as good as gone.


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## cdsniner

I think this has more to do with the pending CBA talks then anything else at this point. The only team really going out and getting big name guys is the Bears and none of the guys they are picking up can keep Cutler from throwing games away.

I really think most of the owners see that a strike may be pending and the Bears are trying to spend in hopes of winning it all before it happens. Why they paid Peppers for 6 years is beyond me. This will probably be his last contract and now that he has the money he can take as many plays off as he wants to. 

I think Kasay is likely done in Carolina and probably for good. If I was the Panthers I would see if he has given any thought to retiring before cutting him outright. I think we will see the Panthers go out and get a lot of cheap journeyman players to fill some of these voids and have an open competition for minutes in training camp and the preseason.


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## nutmeged3

Yeah we're definitely not the only team letting go of veterans and like I said I think Damione Lewis might be the only cut that was sort of puzzling. I don't think we're a contender this season but we'll be set up for a playoff run in 2011 if Matt Moore proves to be starter material. We've made it clear we aren't in the running for any young quarterbacks looking for a starters job even thought it sounds like everyone in the NFL wants to come to Carolina. Must be the uniforms ha

We just signed a kickoff specialist Todd Carter. I don't know anything about him but if he's worth it I guess well be seeing another year of Kasay kicking and let him go off on his own accord. 

Draft is looking pretty important right now. I just want us to get another receiver worth a damn. Richard Williamson was here for forever so maybe now that he retired we have a WR coach that can actually develop a receiver.


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## Diable

Well we just took Jimmy Clausen with our 2nd Rounder. Personally I just don't see the hype with him and there's about 32 NFL teams who have agreed with me once or more. It's worth the risk here of course. Moore likely isn't a long term solution. We need a quarterback and we're giving up a 2nd for Clausen. I'm not holding my breath on him. If he shows me he can play that's going to suit me very well, but I'm not expecting to see him under center in October.

I would have rather gotten a good receiver personally and I expect that's what we take next.


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## Diable

I guess we just took Cincinnati's Tony Pike so that's a great big vote of confidence for Moore. I hope to god this DE from Ole Miss is a stud, because I've been expecting us to take D linemen by the bunches. We have really got to add some help on the defensive line somehow. We've added a lot of offensive players, but the D line is really looking like a gaping wound right now.


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## nutmeged3

Well we just trade Chris Harris for a backup linebacker on the Bears. Not sure if this is part of cost cutting move or just trying to get him out of the locker room after he voiced his concerns about getting rid of veterans all over twitter. I don't understand this one unless there just trying to force Godfrey and Martin to step up. I just know until Harris came back from injury around week 3 or 4 our defense looked terrible. He brought a lot of leadership and grit to our defense and it's going to be tough to replace him. Especially since we are already replacing several other veterans.

Guess this explains why we picked all those corners at the end of the draft as well. I'm sure at least one of ends up at safety by the time training camp rolls around. Draft kind of puzzled me with several of the picks and this just added to it. Not sure what direction were aiming towards and I don't know why Fox/Hurney would be supportive of this considering they might be gone.

Then again we've done a pretty good job of getting players from the Bears and this LB could be good. We could use a new WLB and he does have Urlacher/Briggs over there showing him the ropes.


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## Kaas

Ah, so after the NFL board got rid of team sub-forums, all Panthers talk moved to the Bobcats board. I should've figured.

This offseason has been head scratcher after head scratcher. It feels like Fox and Hurney are getting senile. First all the repetitive picks in the draft and now this. Harris was going to be a locker room leader on defense along with Beason, and the team is already very young as it is. I don't get this move at all. 

I usually avoid watching the Bears because I'm surrounded by too many of their fans and watching games with them gives me headaches (that's true for homers in general, just due to location, Chicago sports homers are in abundance). That said, I hear them discuss the team a lot, and I've never heard them mention this guy we're getting in return. Take that for what it's worth. 

I feel bad for Smitty. He's going to be a part of this rebuilding process. I think the team's record next year could be really, really bad. I'm hoping it's 8-8 or so because that means all these young guys we are banking on will have played pretty decent, making our future look pretty bright (but it will most likely mean the run offense was good enough to win 8 games by itself).


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## Diable

I am having a very hard time looking forward to football season. Sadly I am beginning to wonder if Duke might win more football games than the Panthers will. Really the offense will probably be pretty good so long as we get good line play. I just look at the defense and think it will be a disaster. Our special teams were already bad last year...Damn I'd really love it if we could hire someone like Buffalo's special teams coach. Right now I'm guessing we'll win six or seven games max, but that's without looking at the schedule.


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## rocketeer

i like pike as their qb of the future over clausen.

and it seems weird that a team with so many holes would take 2 qbs in the same draft.


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## Dissonance

Panthers will be laughing at rest of the league for yrs to come for major steal they got. Clausen's going to be the best QB in this draft. Only franchise QB in it as well.


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## nutmeged3

Haha just working with what we got Kaas good to see you found it.

I agree with both of yall next year isn't looking good at all. I kind of feel bad for Moore because he went from thinking he was taking over to basically just a stopgap. He's gonna take the flame this year when we struggle and probably just fade away. I'm definitely looking forward to what we have at QB though gonna become a strength on the team again soon.

Funny thing is once we tear the team apart we might actually have a decent special teams again. Only signings I've seen us make this offseason have been towards new gunners and getting rid of Crossman helps out a lot as well. If Armanti can handle return man I think we might actually have a decent unit. He looks like a player I just wish it hadn't cost us a 2nd rounder. Defense definitely could have used the extra picks next year.


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## bball2223

rocketeer said:


> i like pike as their qb of the future over clausen.
> 
> and it seems weird that a team with so many holes would take 2 qbs in the same draft.


Just like Seneca Wallace over Colt McCoy in Cleveland, eh?:baseldance:

I mean Pike is a good QB, but unless Clausen is hurt or stinks up the joint Pike's going to look good holding a clipboard.


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## Kaas

nutmeged3 said:


> Haha just working with what we got Kaas good to see you found it.


It's good to see there's still a place on this board to talk Panthers football.

I was somewhat hesitant in anointing Moore the team's QB at the end of the season, but after a few months, I started to convince myself he could and would become a good QB in this league. When Clausen was still there I had a feeling we would take him though. Hopefully he ends up being the next Phillip Rivers and proves there's nothing wrong with a little attitude. I didn't really understand the Pike selection. Great value where we drafted him, but now we have 3 QBs (and Cantwell who doesn't seem like he will be cut either).

I still think the team's biggest weakness is at DT, and DE is right behind. 4 unproven guys (Brown was still just sharing time with Brayton and Johnson last year) is a little much for such an important part of the defense. Then due to releases, there'll be at least 2 other new defensive starters. Even if some of these guys pan out and end up being decent or good NFL players, injuries always hit and I seriously question our depth. Exactly how many NFL quality players are on this defense?

I do think our offense could be a strong point. The line is already solid, and if it performs it could make the best RB combination in the league look even better. I'm hoping Fiametta will become a real force as a leading blocker as well. It would be nice if LaFell is the answer for #2 WR, because that is easily our biggest hole on offense (the only receiving threats we have are Smith and 3 TEs).

ST...it has needed a serious makeover for a while now. Robinson was a bust, along with all the other return specialists we've brought in since He Hate Me left. Hopefully Edwards is the answer, and gives us return production while he develops into a WR. The fact that he can throw the ball 60 yards makes for some intriguing opportunities as well. Kickoff and Punt coverage needs some serious work too. Remember when ST used to be one of our biggest strengths? Seems like 10 years ago now.


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## Diable

Special teams is absolutely essential for a team that plays the way John Fox wants to play games. His style of coaching is going to magnify the value of field position about five hundred times. Really I don't think we've ever been very good without having good special teams


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## nutmeged3

First day of minicamp done today and it sounds like Armanti looked really good out there. Darinn Gannt said he had some tough catches in traffic which is what the biggest question mark about him was. Also said he looked a little shaky during punt returns but ithat's expected with how little experience he has doing it. Richard Marshall is the only panther not in attendance which is starting too look weird. Sounds like he thinks he worth a lot of money and it probably hurt his pride when we only put a 2nd round tender on him. Captain's not ready to start so we really need him to come back but we might be looking at a new starter opposite Gamble nect year. He's just not in any bargaining position right now so I guess he's looking for a trade.

Most of the big names not practicing right now which is expected Probably get a little more info later on in the weekend


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## bball2223

Heard Clausen is looking like a real good fit thus far (obviously real early though). Is he expected to start this year right off the bat? Or is it looking like Moore will start and then Clausen will have his chance if Moore struggles?


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## nutmeged3

I went to minicamp Friday and Saturday and did come away impressed by him. It was really windy the whole weekend so it was pretty hard for any of the QB's to really shine. Saturday Clausen probably looked the best of the 4, while Friday was Moores day by far. I doubt Clausen sees the field this year unless Moore really struggles. I don't think there's any reason he should either. Moore has earned the chance to atleast have the job this year. I don't think he'll keep it since we just put a high pick in Clausen but it's his to lose right now. It's not looking like we are gonna be very good this year either tho so Moore will more then likely catch the blame for that. 

Hard to really judge anything right now without pads on but Armanti was looking like a real receiver out there. Hoping we see more three receiver sets this year


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## Diable

Moore is the quarterback unless we start losing so much that the season is lost. Clausen was just a value pick. I'd be fine with trading him for help on the Defensive line. If it looks like we're done and Clausen has gotten himself ready we'll give him a look. Same goes for Pike too. 


I'm beginning to think that the Organization is going to just dump payroll this season and try to position themselves for whatever happens with the new CBA. I see no signs that we're making a legitimate effort to replace the guys we've dumped for payroll reasons and I just don't think the guys we had below them on the depth chart are going to be good enough.


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## ATLien

nutmeged3 said:


> I went to minicamp Friday and Saturday and did come away impressed by him. It was really windy the whole weekend so it was pretty hard for any of the QB's to really shine. Saturday Clausen probably looked the best of the 4, while Friday was Moores day by far. I doubt Clausen sees the field this year unless Moore really struggles. I don't think there's any reason he should either. Moore has earned the chance to atleast have the job this year. I don't think he'll keep it since we just put a high pick in Clausen but it's his to lose right now. It's not looking like we are gonna be very good this year either tho so Moore will more then likely catch the blame for that.
> 
> Hard to really judge anything right now without pads on but Armanti was looking like a real receiver out there. Hoping we see more three receiver sets this year


Well, Delhomme set the bar pretty low I think. Moore would have to really screw up badly to lose the job. Seriously, how hard is it to hand the ball off and not throw a million INT's. Shouldn't be that difficult


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## Diable

Jake earned a lot of slack by winning football games. You can say whatever you like about him, but up until a couple of years ago Jake was average at everything except winning football games. Right now Moore has shown that he might be able win. Of course like Jake he'll need everyone else to do their jobs and the guys who you used to hold down the defensive end for Delhomme are no longer there. With Fox's coaching philosophy just will not get results without a very good defense.


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## nutmeged3

My guess is Fox didn't see a spot worth going to or we probably would have already gotten a different coach. No sense in him sitting around for a rebuilding season when he's on the hot seat. Question is does another 8-8 season get him a contract extension. Our schedule isn't looking very difficult and our offense can only get better from last year. Just depends on how the D plays, the line in particular


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## bball2223

nutmeged3 said:


> I went to minicamp Friday and Saturday and did come away impressed by him. It was really windy the whole weekend so it was pretty hard for any of the QB's to really shine. Saturday Clausen probably looked the best of the 4, while Friday was Moores day by far. I doubt Clausen sees the field this year unless Moore really struggles. I don't think there's any reason he should either. Moore has earned the chance to atleast have the job this year. I don't think he'll keep it since we just put a high pick in Clausen but it's his to lose right now. It's not looking like we are gonna be very good this year either tho so Moore will more then likely catch the blame for that.
> 
> Hard to really judge anything right now without pads on but Armanti was looking like a real receiver out there. Hoping we see more three receiver sets this year


That's probably best for him to sit out the majority, if not all of this season. Give him a year or two to get the offense down and get to know his receivers and I think he will do just fine.


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## Dissonance

I've heard Clausen already knows 90% of the offense when they drafted him. It's same offense and terminology he's been running for 3 yrs. We will see him this season and he's one of the more ready QB prospects to come out last few yrs. Fox and GM's jobs are also on the line. They'll probably try anything.


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## Kaas

I bet Weiss having Fox's ear for all these years certainly helped convince the Panthers to get Clausen. Though it seemed more a GM decision than a coaching one, seeing how giddy Hurney was after the 2nd draft day ended.

Honestly, I'm starting to let some optimism enter my evaluation of the team right now, and I have no idea why since we have so many ?s with unproven players having big roles on defense. The way I see it though is, clearly the only place the offense can go is up. Without Jake, I expect to see some improvement there, and hopefully Gross, Otah, and DeAngelo will stay healthy all season.

The ST was amongst the worst it the league last year, like it has been for the past few. Even if it's still in the middle of transitioning to something new, it can't possibly be worse than last year.

The defense is where things get sketchy...but thinking about it, it's not as bad as it first seems. Losing Harris hurts a lot, but now we essentially have two deep men, which isn't a bad idea in today's pass happy league, especially with Brees in the division. If Marshall plays, we're the same at corner as last year too. Diggs was solid, but in my opinion James Anderson can replicate his form, and he's the worst case scenario. Connor and Norwood are the potential guys. Minimal risk for the shot at a large reward (supposedly Norwood has been compared to James Harrison by some scouts--I don't watch much CFB, but if his ceiling is that high, that's pretty awesome). Beason is always improving and if Thomas Davis can replicate his pre-injury form from last year we have one of the best LB Corps in the league and that's without knowing the peaks of Connor and Norwood. Dline....it isn't pretty. But last year our D-line was one of the worst in the league. Peppers had a few great moments, and a great game against Arizona, but other than that it was pretty miserable. It should be even worse, but we were able to work around it as a weakness last year too.

We'll be lucky if the defense is a wash, but with the upgrades in ST and Offense (addition by subtraction with Jake gone) and an easier schedule, why couldn't we finish say...10-6? Then again, I would be surprised to see us go 3-13. I just don't know what to expect.


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## Diable

I actually heard John Clayton talking about Armanti Edwards on SportsCenter. Apparently the Panthers are really excited about putting him in the slot. He was saying this and I was thinking...How hard could it be for this guy to be better than anyone we've had except Smitty? I mean really Moose has been decent at times...beyond that the last good receiver we had was Ricky Proehl I guess...he was old as dirt back then too. 


On paper, assuming Moore is as good as he looked last year we should be good on Offense...but that's just one third of the game and we got question marks everywhere in the other two thirds of the game.


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## BlakeJesus

I was happy for Jimmy that he was able to land in a situation like Carolina, what do you think of him Diable?


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## nutmeged3

Rumor is Thomas Davis tore his right ACL again in practice yesterday. Terrible, terrible news if it's true. Don't know for sure yet but video from practice definitley looks like it

Video of the injury

Can't really see it that well. It looks like the knee buckles and then he immediately grabs it. Sposed to go in for an MRI tomorrow so I'm sure we'll know at some point in the afternoon whether or not it's true. Just makes me wonder why we got him out there so quick even if it isn't torn. You love to see him out there practicing and there was articles in the paper about how he hadn't lost any speed. This could be very bad though. Wait and see


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## ATLien

Didn't he have a similar injury last season? Jesus. He was one of my favorite college players


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## Diable

the defense is already on life support...if Davis is hurt bad they may as well pull the plug


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## nutmeged3

LINK

It's torn same knee as well. His career might be over with it being torn twice, he signed his tender right before practice too so he could have been in an even worse position then now. I guess this Chris Harris trade looks a little better now. Guess we'll find out if Jamarr Williams was worth anything. WLB is sposed to be pretty easy to replace in Meeks D Davis is gonna be a really tough loss though


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## Diable

****


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## BlakeJesus

^ In the butt.


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## Kaas

I feel terrible for TD. He was on his way to bursting out and becoming one of, if not the best WLB in the league. This loss is going to hurt this year and potentially the future if he can't stay healthy or come back as the same player. I wish Thomas the best and hope he can recover all the way from this.


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## nutmeged3

Smitty broke the same arm he broke last season over the weekend in a flag football game. Not sposed to miss any time and as long as he doesn't I don't think it's that big of a deal. He's at the point where he doesn't need training camp just might be a little rusty when he gets back. Time for the young boys to step up


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## Diable

I'd almost rather have him miss training camp honestly. I'm a little worried about him getting old, but I'm not worried about him working hard or playing hard or knowing how to play his position...Training camp isn't a big deal to guys like Smitty


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