# any Changes?



## The_Franchise (Mar 30, 2003)

*Off season moves*

Besides signing a shooter (Matt Maloney style), what moves will the Rockets make this off season. Or do you think they have to make any at all? Maddox is probably going on the waiver wire.


----------



## fryjol (Aug 13, 2002)

Anyone knows about changes, rumors?


----------



## Hollis (Jun 4, 2002)

Mobley will probably be gone.

If Rudy isn't back, look for Larry Brown.

These are from a very good source.


----------



## Tenshi25 (Nov 27, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Hollis</b>!
> Mobley will probably be gone.
> 
> If Rudy isn't back, look for Larry Brown.
> ...


From that source, do you know what player/s could be involved in a Mobley trade?


----------



## The_Franchise (Mar 30, 2003)

*Larry Brown*

He really wanted taht NC job didnt he. Rudy T will be back next season no doubt, but the Rockets need new administration badly.

Who are your sources? Mobley isn't really detriomental to Rockets and i question the logic of trading him. Moochie and Glen are the best bets to be gone, even though Rockets desperately need someone to step up and take leadership after GRice gone


----------



## Hollis (Jun 4, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Tenshi25</b>!
> 
> 
> From that source, do you know what player/s could be involved in a Mobley trade?


No. All he said was Mobley had a good chance of being gone, and Griffin too, although to a lesser extent.




> Who are your sources?


Clutch from Clutchcity.net


----------



## Tenshi25 (Nov 27, 2002)

Well, it's not a surprise to me to read that Mobley and Griffin are the players most likely to be involved on a trade, I mean one is already a good SG and the other has good potential of being a good PF, and they both have cheap contracts so many teams could be interested on them. Because, seriously, who's gonna be willing to take Taylor's contract, or Cato, or Moochie? yeah, probably nobody.
I am not saying that I think they should be traded no matter what or something, I would consider the possibility if there's a good offer for them, but I wouldn't go nuts with it, I am just saying those two players have the biggest trade value right now considering their contracts compared to their quality.


----------



## fryjol (Aug 13, 2002)

*I don`t think*

The mobley thing, goes in the attitude and discipline for designed plays............= Coach problem

Griffin thing: The guy`s body is still undeveloped for a west team, the starter position goes to Taylor by default. OK we want to develop the boy, but that doesn`t mean to makehim Starter and let him play there always. Example: Eddy Curry, came to the league with way more hype than Griffin and he belong to the bench while his number says so. Only recently when number goes up he was a starter.= coach

Backcourt thing: Moochie is a pure PG and he rotates sometimes to Sg just for givinghim minutes, he averages +10 minutes. And Stevie averages +40. = He rotates to unnatural position, and just to be quiet he comes like dead, 0 attitude. Don`t get me wrong i like his Afro, but he has to slash, that`s his game.= Coach 

Health problems make Rudy T goes upstairs, i like Larry Brown


----------



## The_Franchise (Mar 30, 2003)

*Re: I don`t think*



> Originally posted by <b>fryjol</b>!
> The mobley thing, goes in the attitude and discipline for designed plays............= Coach problem
> 
> Griffin thing: The guy`s body is still undeveloped for a west team, the starter position goes to Taylor by default. OK we want to develop the boy, but that doesn`t mean to makehim Starter and let him play there always. Example: Eddy Curry, came to the league with way more hype than Griffin and he belong to the bench while his number says so. Only recently when number goes up he was a starter.= coach
> ...


Coaching wise, Larry Brown is not a good option for the Rockets. They would of tried to sign Pat RIley of Van GUndy this offseason but Rudy T still has a 2 year, $12 million which the people upstairs really don't want to payoff. 
Moochie Norris is terrible. Jay Williams would be the answer in this case.


----------



## fryjol (Aug 13, 2002)

*please.........*

We have to be realistic, Jay is still overrated, the bulls would want a lot for an unproven guy.......all because they still wanthim there


----------



## Hollis (Jun 4, 2002)

Jay Williams? Huh?


----------



## fryjol (Aug 13, 2002)

*explain*

what you mean?


----------



## DanCaspi (Apr 18, 2003)

There you go "The Franchise" - no unnecessery threads.

anyway, Is there a chance for houston to get Jermaine Oneal?
I know it's kind of out of the budget (correct me if i'm wrong) but it is a rare chance to get a young superstar.

In my opinion changes are a must for houston - especially in the PF position - unless Eddie Griffin turns out to be a decent PF, the rockets someone to help Yao (Shareef?)


----------



## Hollis (Jun 4, 2002)

Moochie will probably be cut.

And I'm merging these threads.


----------



## fryjol (Aug 13, 2002)

*Re: Off season moves*



> Originally posted by <b>The Franchise</b>!
> Besides signing a shooter (Matt Maloney style), what moves will the Rockets make this off season. Or do you think they have to make any at all? Maddox is probably going on the waiver wire.


Men now look as if you started the thread, ¿how did you do that?


----------



## Hollis (Jun 4, 2002)

*Re: Re: Off season moves*



> Originally posted by <b>fryjol</b>!
> 
> 
> Men now look as if you started the thread, ¿how did you do that?


He started a thread about a week ago that no one posted in, until today. It was basically on the same topic, so I merged the 2 threads together.


----------



## fryjol (Aug 13, 2002)

*Re: Off season moves*



> Originally posted by <b>The Franchise</b>!
> Besides signing a shooter (Matt Maloney style)


Abdur isn´t a shooter so i think you were thinking someone else


----------



## The_Franchise (Mar 30, 2003)

*Re: Re: Off season moves*



> Originally posted by <b>fryjol</b>!
> 
> 
> Abdur isn´t a shooter so i think you were thinking someone else


I was NOT talking about a power forward, I was talking about a guard instead, since Moochie is pretty useless. Abdur Rahim is a 20-10 player who gets his points in the post, but we will likely have to sacrifice Rice for him, and the Rockets will need a good substitute for Rice. So again, the Rockets need:

1. A playmaker WHO CAN SHOOT THE BALL
2. Abdur Rahim for Rice,Nachbar/Griffin,2004 draft pick


----------



## Tenshi25 (Nov 27, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Off season moves*



> Originally posted by <b>The Franchise</b>!
> 
> 
> I was NOT talking about a power forward, I was talking about a guard instead, since Moochie is pretty useless. Abdur Rahim is a 20-10 player who gets his points in the post, but we will likely have to sacrifice Rice for him, and the Rockets will need a good substitute for Rice. So again, the Rockets need:
> ...


You know what I don't like about the Abdur Rahim trade? that he's supposed to be a good player but from what I read most of Hawks fans would be happy to trade him, so there must be something wrong about him.


----------



## DanCaspi (Apr 18, 2003)

I wouldn't be worried about the Hawks fans - it's a known reaction that when a superstar is brought with lot of expactations, once he doesn't live up for it - the fans and the system will to blame him / trade him / under estimate him - all that in order to try to explain the failure of the team.

The Hawks built a playoff team, Rahim, Robinson, Terry, Nazr, Ratliff etc...

Look at it from the fans point of view: Shareef was suppose to carry the team into the playoffs - it didin't work out, now they know that he can't do it for them but he still have a contract, so they'll try to get the most out of it.

Raheem is a great player, I would love to see him in Houston,


----------



## The_Franchise (Mar 30, 2003)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Off season moves*



> Originally posted by <b>Tenshi25</b>!
> 
> 
> You know what I don't like about the Abdur Rahim trade? that he's supposed to be a good player but from what I read most of Hawks fans would be happy to trade him, so there must be something wrong about him.


Tenshi, of course people want to trade Rahim. He has been on losing franchises since the beginning of his career. He has not helped the Hawks much although he has been a consistent 20-10 player. You cannot deny his talent. He is not coming to Houston to be a franchise player, what he was in Atlanta. He is gonna be a role player, consistently put up 20 and 10, something the Rockets really need. I am impressed with Caspi's answer. I agree wholly.


----------



## Tenshi25 (Nov 27, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Off season moves*



> Originally posted by <b>The Franchise</b>!
> 
> 
> Tenshi, of course people want to trade Rahim. He has been on losing franchises since the beginning of his career. He has not helped the Hawks much although he has been a consistent 20-10 player. You cannot deny his talent. He is not coming to Houston to be a franchise player, what he was in Atlanta. He is gonna be a role player, consistently put up 20 and 10, something the Rockets really need. I am impressed with Caspi's answer. I agree wholly.


Yeah I agree with that, still, is he worth 12 mil. per year? you have to be careful with those contracts or you might regret it later (look at Taylor's, Cato's...).


----------



## The_Franchise (Mar 30, 2003)

Actually, he'll be getting paid as much as Francis. Cato, Taylor, unproven COMMODITIES. Shareef has proven he has game. And he is not injury prone either, so he is a great role player, and I think it's high time Leslie Alexander starts to go over the cap by adding a Jay Williams like Pg to help Houston playmaker. Oh wait I forgot, Houston is near rock bottom in attendance. NOW THAT CANT HELP...

Anyone have an explanation for that?


----------



## DanCaspi (Apr 18, 2003)

I hope i got you right, do you mean the low attendancy in games? 
well, I guess that fans at Houston just have to get use to the idea that the team is once again a playoff team.

In my opinion, if a superstar such as Shareef will come to Houston, the Media will have high expactions from the team (yao, steve, shareef, eddie perhaps), that might help in that area.

But after all, I don't live in Houston or anywhere near for the matter. so this is just and educated guess.

God I hope I understood you correctly...


----------



## catandkennysuck (Dec 14, 2002)

*pg/sg/sf/playmaker/my hero>*

*Do you want to get banned?*


----------



## rynobot (Oct 10, 2002)

*Re: pg/sg/sf/playmaker/my hero>*

Maybe you will get lucky and get LeBron James.


----------



## catandkennysuck (Dec 14, 2002)

*players that look partially chinese*

*We get the point.*


----------



## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

catandkennysuck, please check your PM.


----------



## fryjol (Aug 13, 2002)

*look*

i ´ve said this before in other thread. Here, some fan from Hawks, were saying that maybe Eddie Griffin could take that defens and tough play they need so badly. Now, we´re asking for Sharef because we want rebounding and post play. So basicly matching the two opinions we would add some low post offense. And guess what we already have two good players there (yao, Mo taylor). Believeme this isn´t a good trade even we are not giving a vital part of the core, we would get a killer salary in long terms conditions, that isn´t good for absolutely any circunstance. And weo would have two big salaries splitting minutes at the PF. 

In this moment, the team has some room to make mistakes (margen de error) because of his age, and the quick rebuilding we had. So a big salary waiting for his BIG comeback year, and a young with AWESOME talent, who shouldn´t fight (´cause of the numbers) if he is relegated to the bench for a while. That is an acceptable combination just for one season. 

I think there is no more thing for the fans that wait a great healthy comeback from Taylor, a breaktrough from Griffin, o (i don´t think so) a great push from the front office going over the luxury for a free agent.


----------



## The_Franchise (Mar 30, 2003)

*Re: look*



> Originally posted by <b>fryjol</b>!
> i ´ve said this before in other thread. Here, some fan from Hawks, were saying that maybe Eddie Griffin could take that defens and tough play they need so badly. Now, we´re asking for Sharef because we want rebounding and post play. So basicly matching the two opinions we would add some low post offense. And guess what we already have two good players there (yao, Mo taylor). Believeme this isn´t a good trade even we are not giving a vital part of the core, we would get a killer salary in long terms conditions, that isn´t good for absolutely any circunstance. And weo would have two big salaries splitting minutes at the PF.
> 
> In this moment, the team has some room to make mistakes (margen de error) because of his age, and the quick rebuilding we had. So a big salary waiting for his BIG comeback year, and a young with AWESOME talent, who shouldn´t fight (´cause of the numbers) if he is relegated to the bench for a while. That is an acceptable combination just for one season.
> ...


We have already seen the best of Mo Taylor. He is not a $9 m player no matter what you say. Honestly, he can get 4 or 5 MAXIMUM, but anything more is just him taking the Rockets for a ride. No one in the NBA is paid that much to COME OF THE BENCH and provide for 15 20 minutes. Mo offensive output is limited, his defense is apalling, fryjol you cannot deny this.

Rockets need to bring in a proven athelete, a commodity that can give these young Rockets a consistent contribution on a nightly basis. Shareef, this guy cannot carry a team, hell I don't think he has every had a winning season yet, but he sure can give the Rockets the knockout punch they need.


----------



## MightyReds2020 (Jul 19, 2002)

*Re: Re: look*



> Originally posted by <b>The Franchise</b>!
> 
> Rockets need to bring in a proven athelete, a commodity that can give these young Rockets a consistent contribution on a nightly basis. Shareef, this guy cannot carry a team, hell I don't think he has every had a winning season yet, but he sure can give the Rockets the knockout punch they need.


IMO, Shareef is NOT the answer at PF. The future of the Rockets' low-post offense is Yao Ming, Yao will be THAT guy who gets most touches under the post, and Shareef is that kind of guy that needs the ball around the post to be effective. Shareef will definately take away many of Yao's touches. Now that's fine that if you want Shareef to be your main option because Yao's a willing passer and team-worker, but do you really want to see that happen? 

Houston needs a dirty-worker at PF. That guy don't have to be great, he doesn't even have to score 10+ points every night but he needs to bang, bang, and bang! Go to the board hard, chase every loose ball, AND PROTECT YAO, like P.J. Brown of Hornets.

I'm not sure who the Rockets will go to, but they don't have to do that because Eddie Griffin has the potential to be that guy. I know Griffin is horrible now. What he needs to do is check out Robert Horry's career path, give up the chance to become a great player himself (he doesn't look like one anyway), work on his D, and STOP shooting 3s. Be the 2nd-hand that Yao needs, and the Rockets frontcourt is set for many years to come...


----------



## The_Franchise (Mar 30, 2003)

*Re: Re: Re: look*



> Originally posted by <b>MightyReds2020</b>!
> 
> 
> IMO, Shareef is NOT the answer at PF. The future of the Rockets' low-post offense is Yao Ming, Yao will be THAT guy who gets most touches under the post, and Shareef is that kind of guy that needs the ball around the post to be effective. Shareef will definately take away many of Yao's touches. Now that's fine that if you want Shareef to be your main option because Yao's a willing passer and team-worker, but do you really want to see that happen?
> ...


Rockets dirty worker is Posey. NO, Rockets NEED Offensive output desperately. Shareef gonna be a 7 for 15 guy. He won't take away from Yao's touches. A dirty PF, thought thats what KT was. And he was traded. So much for that.


----------



## Tom (Jul 15, 2002)

kerry kittles for Cat


----------



## fryjol (Aug 13, 2002)

*no please,no*

kittles is a soft sharpsooter, besides he is injury proner.
cat, well may be he isn`t a future hall of famer, but tha guy has his nights i took him over kittles 100 times


----------



## Tom (Jul 15, 2002)

*Re: no please,no*



> Originally posted by <b>fryjol</b>!
> kittles is a soft sharpsooter, besides he is injury proner.
> cat, well may be he isn`t a future hall of famer, but tha guy has his nights i took him over kittles 100 times


He is a great defender and a team player something the rockets sorely need. He i a great shooter and you guys need a great role player. Cat needs to go.


----------



## fryjol (Aug 13, 2002)

*injurys?*

The guy hasn`t great number `cause of his injuries, so we don`t need a salary "resting"


----------



## MightyReds2020 (Jul 19, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: look*



> Originally posted by <b>The Franchise</b>!
> 
> 
> Rockets dirty worker is Posey. NO, Rockets NEED Offensive output desperately. Shareef gonna be a 7 for 15 guy. He won't take away from Yao's touches. A dirty PF, thought thats what KT was. And he was traded. So much for that.


You can't have two star players playing at the post. It's just not ideal. Now I know both Yao and Shareef have the ability to step out and make some 12-footers, but they're at best working around the basket. And trust me, the addition of Shareef will make Yao a 3rd option behind Shareef and Steve Francis because like I said, Yao could still be effective without the ball but Shareef couldn't. And if make Shareef you main option, you've got yourself into the trouble. Kenny Thomas is exactly that type of PF the Rockets sorely needs. He was erratic in his Rockets days but that probably was because of all the injuries and inconsistent guard plays, the Rockets moved him because they had no choice. They thought Eddie Griffin is their future, and Mo Taylor is unmovable so someone has to go. KT obviously was that guy.


----------



## Tom (Jul 15, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: look*



> Originally posted by <b>MightyReds2020</b>!
> 
> 
> You can't have two star players playing at the post. It's just not ideal. Now I know both Yao and Shareef have the ability to step out and make some 12-footers, but they're at best working around the basket. And trust me, the addition of Shareef will make Yao a 3rd option behind Shareef and Steve Francis because like I said, Yao could still be effective without the ball but Shareef couldn't. And if make Shareef you main option, you've got yourself into the trouble. Kenny Thomas is exactly that type of PF the Rockets sorely needs. He was erratic in his Rockets days but that probably was because of all the injuries and inconsistent guard plays, the Rockets moved him because they had no choice. They thought Eddie Griffin is their future, and Mo Taylor is unmovable so someone has to go. KT obviously was that guy.



Kerry Kittles


----------



## MightyReds2020 (Jul 19, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: look*



> Originally posted by <b>Tom</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> Kerry Kittles


----------



## The_Franchise (Mar 30, 2003)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: look*



> Originally posted by <b>MightyReds2020</b>!
> 
> 
> You can't have two star players playing at the post. It's just not ideal. Now I know both Yao and Shareef have the ability to step out and make some 12-footers, but they're at best working around the basket. And trust me, the addition of Shareef will make Yao a 3rd option behind Shareef and Steve Francis because like I said, Yao could still be effective without the ball but Shareef couldn't. And if make Shareef you main option, you've got yourself into the trouble. Kenny Thomas is exactly that type of PF the Rockets sorely needs. He was erratic in his Rockets days but that probably was because of all the injuries and inconsistent guard plays, the Rockets moved him because they had no choice. They thought Eddie Griffin is their future, and Mo Taylor is unmovable so someone has to go. KT obviously was that guy.


What your saying is making sense, but Shareef is not gonna hurt Yao's touches. On the Rockets, no way he gonna put up 20 points, but his versatility and CONSISTENCY is really vital to this team. A typical Rockets game has many fluctuations and they need to give Abdur Rahim the balls sometimes just to score. He will be made a 3rd option behind Yao, unless Yao is not on game.

Also, the Rockets need for cheap this summer is an Emanuel Ginobli. A scrappy player who is always QUICKLY cutting to the lane, getting the job done defensively and a player who can create some plays, he would be more effective than the erratic Mobley.


----------



## MightyReds2020 (Jul 19, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: look*



> Originally posted by <b>The Franchise</b>!
> What your saying is making sense, but Shareef is not gonna hurt Yao's touches. On the Rockets, no way he gonna put up 20 points, but his versatility and CONSISTENCY is really vital to this team. A typical Rockets game has many fluctuations and they need to give Abdur Rahim the balls sometimes just to score. He will be made a 3rd option behind Yao, unless Yao is not on game.


IF Shareef is willing to take a backseat and let the offense goes through Yao most of the time not him, than everything will come easier, but that's a big IF! Plus, Shareef doesn't really do those little things (setting screens, cutting without the ball) well enough for him to become a 3rd option and still effective. Most likely, he'll get frustrated by not getting enough touches, and completely disappeared. In some sense, Shareef is like Mobley, do you want another Mobley?

Now am I saying Shareef is a bad players to have? ABSOLUTELY NOT! He's a nice player, but not a proven-winner and does not know how to lead a team? I know anything is possible, so perhaps him become a 3rd option will make Rockets score more consistently? Ideally it is, but in reality, you have a pretty soft PF who doesn't really D and effective without bball in his hands. All those elements that Griffin currently prossess except the scoring part. I just don't think it's a good PF/C combination.



> Also, the Rockets need for cheap this summer is an Emanuel Ginobli. A scrappy player who is always QUICKLY cutting to the lane, getting the job done defensively and a player who can create some plays, he would be more effective than the erratic Mobley.


You're right on this one. Maybe Rockets just need to resign Posey, let him play SG and DON'T SHOOT but D. And ask Mobley to come off the bench??


----------



## The_Franchise (Mar 30, 2003)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: look*



> Originally posted by <b>MightyReds2020</b>!
> 
> 
> IF Shareef is willing to take a backseat and let the offense goes through Yao most of the time not him, than everything will come easier, but that's a big IF! Plus, Shareef doesn't really do those little things (setting screens, cutting without the ball) well enough for him to become a 3rd option and still effective. Most likely, he'll get frustrated by not getting enough touches, and completely disappeared. In some sense, Shareef is like Mobley, do you want another Mobley?


Griffin is a real slacker with no work ethic, and Im not *****ing about my own players, this is what I've heard from all unbaised sources. Shareef, ideally, will give us 20-10, but in reality will get 15-8 with Yao there. However, I am seeing what you are saying as he wont be very productive for a team like Houston who has Yao Ming and a potential Shareef in Mo Taylor.



> You're right on this one. Maybe Rockets just need to resign Posey, let him play SG and DON'T SHOOT but D. And ask Mobley to come off the bench??


Of course POSEY needs to be resigned! This is a must! Mobley is supposed to be a 6th man, but he ends up playin 42 mpg, close to top of the league. He has his defensive spurts. Posey should shoot, this guy was on fire towards the end of the season, it is vital that he develops his penetrating game. 

If Rockets pick stays where it is, Carl English will be the man of choice. We need consistent perimeter shooter of the bench, much like what Rice has given us.


----------



## MightyReds2020 (Jul 19, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: look*



> Originally posted by <b>The Franchise</b>!
> 
> Of course POSEY needs to be resigned! This is a must! Mobley is supposed to be a 6th man, but he ends up playin 42 mpg, close to top of the league. He has his defensive spurts. Posey should shoot, this guy was on fire towards the end of the season, it is vital that he develops his penetrating game.


After the Posey trade during mid-season, I actually thought the Rockets wanted to groom him as the replacement of Mobley at starting SG because he's tall, athletic, and a good defender. Turned out for some reason the Rockets never thought Mobley is a 6th-man material. The Rockets easily could go big (Yao-Mo Taylor-Griffin-Posey-Francis) or inside-out (Yao-Griffin-Rice-Posey-Francis) with Mobley the first guy off the bench, instead they had Mobley playing close to 40 MPG.

Now can Posey shoots with some consistencies? I don't know. He had only one good shooting month. He has to prove that over a long-haul of a season.


----------



## AstheFranchiz2K2 (May 24, 2003)

Mobley traded for Gilbert Arenas if the Rockets cant get him in the free agency. Arenas is similar to mobley defensively but is a better team player and has much more potential.


----------



## The_Franchise (Mar 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>AstheFranchiz2K2</b>!
> Mobley traded for Gilbert Arenas if the Rockets cant get him in the free agency. Arenas is similar to mobley defensively but is a better team player and has much more potential.


Yet again, wishful thinking. Guys, lets really try being realistic here... Why oh WHY would Denver trade Arenas for Mobley?


----------

