# Done Deal!!! Fernandez and Jones trade completed



## dwood615 (Jul 20, 2004)

http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/47058/20070711/suns_and_blazers_complete_jones_fernandez_trade/

ITS DONE


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## dwood615 (Jul 20, 2004)

*Re: Done Deal!!!*

its official we trade some money for james jones and rudy fernandez


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## stupendous (Feb 17, 2003)

*Re: Done Deal!!!*

hallelujah!


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## DamDweller (Jun 7, 2007)

*Re: Done Deal!!!*

Feels good to me!


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## B_&_B (Feb 19, 2004)

*Re: Done Deal!!!*

and nothing about it yet on Oregonlive. :lol:

Anyways,
GLAD that its FINALLY official.
:rbanana:

As I've said many times, I think Jones is going to really surprise some people this season and be a very solid starting SF for us.


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## Tortimer (Jun 4, 2007)

*Re: Done Deal!!!*

That's what I thought the trade would be and I'm happy it is at least over. we don't have to listen to people saying we are getting Marion etc. anymore.


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## MAS RipCity (Feb 22, 2003)

*Re: Done Deal!!!*

Please bring Rudy over NOW!


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## dwood615 (Jul 20, 2004)

*Re: Done Deal!!!*

yeah well we got a pick and a player.....does that mean we are gettin another player hahahaha

the speculation begins hahaha


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## B_&_B (Feb 19, 2004)

*Re: Done Deal!!!*

Barrett's blog explains the deal:
http://mikebarrettsblog.blogspot.com/2007/07/francis-gone-ny-trade-finalized.html


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## ProudBFan (Apr 29, 2003)

*Re: Done Deal!!!*

I like turtles!

PBF


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

*Re: Done Deal!!!*

so...how long before he's shipped back to Phoenix? ')


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## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

*Re: Done Deal!!!*

Someone ask him about this so called acclaimed player KP mentioned. I would be currious to find out what he meant by that


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## Tortimer (Jun 4, 2007)

*Re: Done Deal!!!*



Hap said:


> so...how long before he's shipped back to Phoenix? ')



I don't think we can trade him back to Pho for a while. If your saying there is more to this deal your really fooling yourself. This is all there is and nothing more. I think we have 48 hours or something like that to be able to package Jones in another trade but again I'm not sure.


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## dwood615 (Jul 20, 2004)

*Re: Done Deal!!!*



B_&_B said:


> Barrett's blog explains the deal:
> http://mikebarrettsblog.blogspot.com/2007/07/francis-gone-ny-trade-finalized.html





good to hear that we have some sick *** gms


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## ProudBFan (Apr 29, 2003)

*Re: Done Deal!!!*



Hap said:


> so...how long before he's shipped back to Phoenix? ')


You tell us. 

PBF


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## SodaPopinski (Aug 10, 2004)

*Re: Done Deal!!!*

Whoa! Wow! Where did this deal come from? This is totally out of left field for me.

:biggrin: 

-Pop


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## GOD (Jun 22, 2003)

*Re: Done Deal!!!*

Everyone should go read the MB Blog, he explains stuff well.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

*Re: Done Deal!!!*



Tortimer said:


> I don't think we can trade him back to Pho for a while. If your saying there is more to this deal your really fooling yourself. This is all there is and nothing more. I think we have 48 hours or something like that to be able to package Jones in another trade but again I'm not sure.


Im being a smartass about it, since we had people saying that Fernandez was being shipped back to Phoenix.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

*Re: Done Deal!!!*

Barrett doesn't get into details of the deal... sounds like he doesn't understand them.

I wonder if my approach to creating the trade exception (from a thread a week or two ago) is how it happened...

Ed O.


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## dwood615 (Jul 20, 2004)

*Re: Done Deal!!!*

yeah he breaks it down very well but then i think about what KP said about this acclaimed player whats up with that


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## PorterIn2004 (Jan 1, 2003)

*Re: Done Deal!!!*



Tortimer said:


> That's what I thought the trade would be and I'm happy it is at least over. we don't have to listen to people saying we are getting Marion etc. anymore.


That'd be me. :biggrin: I'm glad, though, that Marion isn't coming in for all the reasons I've listed previously.

Still, though, the team was to get "a pick, a player, and an acclaimed player." Fernandez is clearly the pick but who's who for Frye and Jones? They've both spent some time starting, Frye more than Jones, but Jones has been occasionally starting on a vastly better and more "acclaimed" team. I'd love to hear Pritchard on that one. :biggrin:


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## dwood615 (Jul 20, 2004)

*Re: Done Deal!!!*

yeah im excited to hear about it today too cuz you know someone is gonna talk about it at the game today


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## Stepping Razor (Apr 24, 2004)

*Re: Done Deal!!!*

At this point I suppose my best guess would be:

"A pick": Fernandez
"A player": Jones
"An acclaimed player": Frye

All depends on how you define "acclaimed," I guess... 

Stepping Razor


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## B_&_B (Feb 19, 2004)

*Re: Done Deal!!!*



Ed O said:


> Barrett doesn't get into details of the deal... sounds like he doesn't understand them.
> 
> I wonder if my approach to creating the trade exception (from a thread a week or two ago) is how it happened...
> 
> Ed O.


Huh? From what I read, he layed out every detail, including the trade exception.


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## dwood615 (Jul 20, 2004)

*Re: Done Deal!!!*



Stepping Razor said:


> At this point I suppose my best guess would be:
> 
> "A pick": Fernandez
> "A player": Jones
> ...



darn it...o well

so basically we sent zach,freddie and dan for rudy, james and frizay


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## wizmentor (Nov 10, 2005)

*Re: Done Deal!!!*



dwood615 said:


> good to hear that we have some sick *** gms


So,
Randolph + Jones + Dickau + $$
for
Frye + Jones + Fernandez (+ a bought-out Francis)

MB makes it sound like a great trade. In total, it's a long way the wrong way from that. :azdaja:

Rudy Fernandez is (probably) the acclaimed player.


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## B_&_B (Feb 19, 2004)

*Re: Done Deal!!!*



wizmentor said:


> So,
> Randolph + Jones + Dickau + $$
> for
> Frye + Jones + Fernandez (+ a bought-out Francis)
> ...


Factor in the future cap relief and it does seem like a good trade, IMO.


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## BBert (Dec 30, 2004)

*Re: Done Deal!!!*



> This then can be actually viewed as two different trades, even though it came across as one big trade. It's basically, Zach and Dickau for Francis and Frye. *Freddie for James Jones and Rudy Fernandez*.


Man, that's a lot of value for Freddie! Bravo Penn and Pritchard! :clap: 

Moving Zach for Frye was (1) PR; (2) save money; (3) cap space in 2 years; (4) make room for LaMarcus (who will be a better player); and (5) get a backup at the 4 and 5 (Frye). Probably worth it, to me.

So...when are we trading for our new SF? And signing Blake?

My homerism may be boiling over a bit, but DANG we are going to be a good team! 

Portland is going to love this team. It will help that the media are going to love them too.


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## PorterIn2004 (Jan 1, 2003)

*Re: Done Deal!!!*



Hap said:


> Im being a smartass about it, since we had people saying that Fernandez was being shipped back to Phoenix.


Be fair, Hap -- I had him at least as likely to be headed to the 'Wolves, then I had Rodriguez headed to the Suns, then I had.... :biggrin: 

And again, I'm glad none of that happened. Frye, Fernandez, and Jones all seem like great fits on this team, Marion didn't feel like a great fit, and I didn't want to see guys like Rodriguez shipped out to bring Marion in.

Still, even beyond the "acclaimed" player thing, it seems strange to me both that it took so long to go through and that Pritchard seemed to not want to even talk about Rodriguez for a stretch there. It also seems odd to me that Pritchard was glowing about this being the "Tom Penn" draft -- I'm pretty happy with the outcome but it still doesn't seem likely to be that memorable a draft compared to the one that brought in Aldridge and Roy. Maybe Pritchard's expectations for these guys is higher than mine?


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## BBert (Dec 30, 2004)

*Re: Done Deal!!!*



PorterIn2004 said:


> Still, though, the team was to get "a pick, a player, and an acclaimed player." Fernandez is clearly the pick but who's who for Frye and Jones? They've both spent some time starting, Frye more than Jones, but Jones has been occasionally starting on a vastly better and more "acclaimed" team. I'd love to hear Pritchard on that one. :biggrin:


Like wizmentor said, I think Fernandez is the 'acclaimed player.' People try to read too much into what Pritchard says sometimes, like he's the Fed Reserve Chairman or something. As I recall, he said "a pick, a player...and...ummm...an acclaimed player." The player and the acclaimed player are most likely the same guy. A little stammering seems to have led to a lot of speculation. If we do get an "acclaimed player" as in trade for a SF, it will be a separate deal.


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## dwood615 (Jul 20, 2004)

*Re: Done Deal!!!*

we wont feel this draft fior a few years when we have a ton of cap space to resign roy...aldridge and oden to big deals to keep them here for a long time

now whats left???

we sign outlaw to a 3 or 4 year deal at the mid level


that leaves us with this roster(assuming we sign mcroberts and green to short term deals which i think we will do)

jack/sergio/green
roy/webster
outlaw/jones/miles
aldridge/frye/mcroberts
oden/pryz/raef


that leaves us with 1 spot open at the guard position

which i think we may fill with a 2 year deal to someone


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## dwood615 (Jul 20, 2004)

*Re: Done Deal!!!*

do you guys agree with me???


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## Tortimer (Jun 4, 2007)

*Re: Done Deal!!!*



dwood615 said:


> do you guys agree with me???


Your probably right and we are done except signing Outlaw. I do think KP is listening to or asking about possible trades for Jack/Joel/Webster for a player(s). I don't think we make a trade but maybe if it's the right player(s).


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## wizmentor (Nov 10, 2005)

*Re: Done Deal!!!*



B_&_B said:


> Factor in the future cap relief and it does seem like a good trade, IMO.


A 25 year old Borderline all-star for 3 backups and cap relief *in 2 years*.:azdaja: :azdaja: :azdaja: :azdaja: 

Oh, and if you're tempted to bring up the off-the-court stuff, forget it. If it weren't for the off-the-court stuff, Zach would have been a bonafide all-star (not a borderline all-star).

It's a terrible trade and basically everyone knows it. That's why we've heard all of the "let's wait before we judge" and "acclaimed player" talk. Well, we've waited, it's over. There is no "acclaimed player". We were shafted by one of the worst GMs in the league. Embarrassing, really.


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## BBert (Dec 30, 2004)

We have Travis' Bird rights and I think we'll match any offer he gets. He'll probably get something in the $4-$6 million range to start. I still think we'll probably sign Blake to about $4 million for 3 years (he'll want more years; we'll want 2 years with an option) after we trade Jack and Joel/Martell for a SF. We may even keep Ime, unless he's a throw in, if he'll sign for whatever is left of the mid-level exception. Just fan speculation on my part.


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## PorterIn2004 (Jan 1, 2003)

*Re: Done Deal!!!*



BBert said:


> Like wizmentor said, I think Fernandez is the 'acclaimed player.' People try to read too much into what Pritchard says sometimes, like he's the Fed Reserve Chairman or something. As I recall, he said "a pick, a player...and...ummm...an acclaimed player." The player and the acclaimed player are most likely the same guy. A little stammering seems to have led to a lot of speculation. If we do get an "acclaimed player" as in trade for a SF, it will be a separate deal.


Okay, but then who's the pick?


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## Talkhard (May 13, 2003)

*Re: Done Deal!!!*



B_&_B said:


> Barrett's blog explains the deal:
> http://mikebarrettsblog.blogspot.com/2007/07/francis-gone-ny-trade-finalized.html


Good grief, this deal is looking a lot better! Barrett explains it better than anyone I've seen.


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## BBert (Dec 30, 2004)

*Re: Done Deal!!!*



PorterIn2004 said:


> Okay, but then who's the pick?


Oh, good point. They can't all be the same player. :biggrin: Fernandez was the pick, you are right. The player was Jones. The acclaimed player? I thought from the beginning that he was just stammering when he said that. As of today, it doesn't look like there is another player involved in this particular deal. I give up. :biggrin:


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## PorterIn2004 (Jan 1, 2003)

*Re: Done Deal!!!*



dwood615 said:


> do you guys agree with me???


Almost. I'd bet that Jones starts at SF. I'd also bet that they're hoping Jones can play meaningful minutes at SG. 

I'd also bet that Aldridge and even Frye play more minutes at center than either Przybilla or LaFrentz this year. They're both better players and, more the point, that'd open up time at the PF for Outlaw and, to a lesser extent McRoberts, and while this is more of a stretch, I'd wager that Outlaw and McRoberts will both be more productive this year than Przybilla or LaFrentz -- or at least that the organization will have more interest in developing Outlaw and McRoberts than Przybilla or LaFrentz.

I could also see Green hoping ahead of Rodriguez at least for small stretches of the year, though on the whole I agree that if he makes the roster it'll be as the 3rd PG.


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## BBert (Dec 30, 2004)

*Re: Done Deal!!!*



PorterIn2004 said:


> Okay, but then who's the pick?


Oh, good point. They can't all be the same player. :biggrin: Fernandez was the pick, you are right. The player was Jones. The acclaimed player? I thought from the beginning that he was just stammering when he said that. As of today, it doesn't look like there is another player involved in this particular deal. I give up. Unless it was Francie Franchise. :biggrin:


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## dwood615 (Jul 20, 2004)

BBert said:


> We have Travis' Bird rights and I think we'll match any offer he gets. He'll probably get something in the $4-$6 million range to start. I still think we'll probably sign Blake to about $4 million for 3 years (he'll want more years; we'll want 2 years with an option) after we trade Jack and Joel/Martell for a SF. We may even keep Ime, unless he's a throw in, if he'll sign for whatever is left of the mid-level exception. Just fan speculation on my part.



i think we sign outlaw but not blake


i think we sign a shooting guard just for insurance maybe we dont even sign someone else

it hink this roster is 95% done


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## B_&_B (Feb 19, 2004)

*Re: Done Deal!!!*



wizmentor said:


> A 25 year old Borderline all-star for 3 backups and cap relief *in 2 years*.:azdaja: :azdaja: :azdaja: :azdaja:
> 
> Oh, and if you're tempted to bring up the off-the-court stuff, forget it. If it weren't for the off-the-court stuff, Zach would have been a bonafide all-star (not a borderline all-star).
> 
> It's a terrible trade and basically everyone knows it. That's why we've heard all of the "let's wait before we judge" and "acclaimed player" talk. Well, we've waited, it's over. There is no "acclaimed player". We were shafted by one of the worst GMs in the league. Embarrassing, really.


In 2 years, we'll need to resign Aldridge and Roy... then Oden the next year. You do know that all 3 of them are pretty good, right?

Funny how we got A's from almost all the draft experts after the draft and they factored in this trade, but the Wiz says we got shafted. OK.


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## dwood615 (Jul 20, 2004)

ill shaft the wiz if he dont zip it or ill stuff it hahahahahahaha


shaft that ho


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## dwood615 (Jul 20, 2004)

excuse me im the rebel of this board...i snap sometimes


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## SheedSoNasty (Dec 31, 2002)

dwood615 said:


> excuse me im the rebel of this board...i snap sometimes


you're just stupid cool like that.


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## PorterIn2004 (Jan 1, 2003)

So the more I think about it, _if_ Pritchard wasn't just stuttering and stammering his way through the statement, Fernandez is the pick, Frye is the player, and Jones is the acclaimed player. Why? Because the team has had nearly two _weeks_ now to introduce their "acclaimed" player if that player were Frye. They've only barely acknowledged him. I think they're viewing Jones as a steal and at least the mid-term and maybe long-term solution at SF. After all, he's a guy who plays defense (which Nate will like) doesn't seem to need the ball to be happy (a fine thing given how much they're planning to go through Aldridge and Roy, not to mention Oden with time) _and_ he shoots a very good percentage from outside (something the Blazers have been lacking for ages).

So there're my thoughts. Do with them what you will.


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## dwood615 (Jul 20, 2004)

SheedSoNasty said:


> you're just stupid cool like that.



stupid dumb


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## dwood615 (Jul 20, 2004)

PorterIn2004 said:


> So the more I think about it, _if_ Pritchard wasn't just stuttering and stammering his way through the statement, Fernandez is the pick, Frye is the player, and Jones is the acclaimed player. Why? Because the team has had nearly two _weeks_ now to introduce their "acclaimed" player if that player were Frye. They've only barely acknowledged him. I think they're viewing Jones as a steal and at least the mid-term and maybe long-term solution at SF. After all, he's a guy who plays defense (which Nate will like) doesn't seem to need the ball to be happy (a fine thing given how much they're planning to go through Aldridge and Roy, not to mention Oden with time) _and_ he shoots a very good percentage from outside (something the Blazers have been lacking for ages).
> 
> So there're my thoughts. Do with them what you will.



i think frye is the acclaimed platyer and jones is just the player


but i agree we dont have to resign ime cuz we have someone now with more experience i the league and even averaged nearly 10 points a game 2 years ago

outlaw and jones is a decent tandem i think they can average 16 to 18 points a game combined which is great


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## wizmentor (Nov 10, 2005)

*Re: Done Deal!!!*



B_&_B said:


> In 2 years, we'll need to resign Aldridge and Roy... then Oden the next year. You do know that all 3 of them are pretty good, right?


So, the Bulls should have traded Deng for 3 backups and cap space in 2 years because, hey, you know Tyrus Thomas, Gordon, and Heinrich are pretty good, right? :lol: :lol: 



B_&_B said:


> Funny how we got A's from almost all the draft experts after the draft and they factored in this trade, but the Wiz says we got shafted. OK.


I read basically all of those, and several of them revealed that they would have given us an A-, just for drafting Oden. So, getting "A" grades doesn't really mean they love the trade.

You've got some serious sarcasm going. I'm trying to keep up, but I have a feeling you'll be outdistancing me in your next post :biggrin:

People who like the trade are basically claiming "Addition by Subtraction"


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## MAS RipCity (Feb 22, 2003)

just give the reigns over to Outlaw at the 3 and see if he can keep it up...he really is a similar version to Josh Smith...hopefully he can fullfil his potential.


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## PorterIn2004 (Jan 1, 2003)

dwood615 said:


> i think frye is the acclaimed platyer and jones is just the player



Okay, but then why haven't the Blazers treated Frye like an acclaimed player? Randolph was introduced, jersey in hand, days after the draft. I suppose one could argue that Frye won't be starting on this team so that sort of fanfare would be inappropriate, but I think that supports _my_ argument -- Jones _can_ come to this roster with good odds of starting and again, Jones is coming from the _much_ better team. He's also been in the league longer, while still being a young player.


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## dwood615 (Jul 20, 2004)

*Re: Done Deal!!!*



wizmentor said:


> So, the Bulls should have traded Deng for 3 backups and cap space in 2 years because, hey, you know Tyrus Thomas, Gordon, and Heinrich are pretty good, right? :lol: :lol:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



i would then say that was a good trade for them because it would be smart to resign those 3 guys...and thats not a great comparison because dengs contyract is not anythign near the size of zachs and he doesnt have off court problems like aach either


and roy,aldrige and oden are all 2nd year or rookie players

hinrich,tyrus and gordon are not...not to mention hinrich just signed a larger contract...


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## dwood615 (Jul 20, 2004)

PorterIn2004 said:


> Okay, but then why haven't the Blazers treated Frye like an acclaimed player? Randolph was introduced, jersey in hand, days after the draft. I suppose one could argue that Frye won't be starting on this team so that sort of fanfare would be inappropriate, but I think that supports _my_ argument -- Jones _can_ come to this roster with good odds of starting and again, Jones is coming from the _much_ better team. He's also been in the league longer, while still being a young player.



great points


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## B_&_B (Feb 19, 2004)

*Re: Done Deal!!!*



dwood615 said:


> and thats not a great comparison because dengs contyract is not anythign near the size of zachs and he doesnt have off court problems like aach either
> 
> 
> and roy,aldrige and oden are all 2nd year or rookie players
> ...


Thanks


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## dwood615 (Jul 20, 2004)

finally someoen agrees with a point of mine


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## Anonymous Gambler (May 29, 2006)

*Re: Done Deal!!!*



B_&_B said:


> In 2 years, we'll need to resign Aldridge and Roy... then Oden the next year. You do know that all 3 of them are pretty good, right?
> 
> Funny how we got A's from almost all the draft experts after the draft and they factored in this trade, but the Wiz says we got shafted. OK.


I agre with him, actually. We should have gotten more for one the best post players in the NBA.

The only way this trade works out to even is if Rudy Fernandez or Channing Frye end up being a near all star.

Freddy Jones and the phoenix guy seem like a wash to me.


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## dwood615 (Jul 20, 2004)

*Re: Done Deal!!!*



Anonymous Gambler said:


> I agre with him, actually. We should have gotten more for one the best post players in the NBA.
> 
> The only way this trade works out to even is if Rudy Fernandez or Channing Frye end up being a near all star.
> 
> Freddy Jones and the phoenix guy seem like a wash to me.


thank god your anonymous cuz if i knew you id slap you


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## sa1177 (Feb 18, 2005)

*Re: Done Deal!!!*



wizmentor said:


> Oh, and if you're tempted to bring up the off-the-court stuff, forget it. If it weren't for the off-the-court stuff, Zach would have been a bonafide all-star (not a borderline all-star).


Actually as I recall analysts and GM's believed it was due to his lack of defensive game.



> It's a terrible trade and basically everyone knows it. That's why we've heard all of the "let's wait before we judge" and "acclaimed player" talk. Well, we've waited, it's over. There is no "acclaimed player". We were shafted by one of the worst GMs in the league. Embarrassing, really.


Not embarassing at all...have you read any of the ESPN analyst's take on the trade? Anyone who knows and understand the "team" concept of basketball can see that Zach isn't a good fit with the young players on our roster.


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## Rip City Reign (Jul 1, 2007)

dwood615 said:


> i think frye is the acclaimed platyer and jones is just the player



The "acclaimed player" allegedly came out of the Phoenix deal, not the NY deal, as Pritchard mentioned to KGW on Sports Sunday and to Sportsbusiness.com radio.

There HAS GOT TO BE more to this....


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

Rip City Reign said:


> The "acclaimed player" allegedly came out of the Phoenix deal, not the NY deal, as Pritchard mentioned to KGW on Sports Sunday and to Sportsbusiness.com radio.
> 
> There HAS GOT TO BE more to this....


I'm afraid there does not.

The Phoenix deal and the NY deal are totally tied at the hip. Portland HAD to trade with NY to get the trade exception to make the Phoenix deal.

Whether Phoenix wanted to unload Jones, or whether Portland wanted Jones (or, I suppose, both), we don't get Fernandez without Jones, and we don't get Jones without the NY deal.

Ed O.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

*Re: Done Deal!!!*



dwood615 said:


> thank god your anonymous cuz if i knew you id slap you


It's shocking that more people don't agree with your points... 

Ed O.


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## wizmentor (Nov 10, 2005)

*Re: Done Deal!!!*



sa1177 said:


> Actually as I recall analysts and GM's believed it was due to his lack of defensive game.
> 
> 
> 
> Not embarassing at all...have you read any of the ESPN analyst's take on the trade? Anyone who knows and understand the "team" concept of basketball can see that Zach isn't a good fit with the young players on our roster.


Zach's D is right down there with Charles Barkley, who made an all-star game or 2.
Zach is only 25.
I'm not saying, nor have I ever said, that Zach isn't a good fit. It's that we should have gotten much more.


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## ProZach (Oct 13, 2005)

Rip City Reign said:


> There HAS GOT TO BE more to this....



Except, their isn't...


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## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

Since DD meant nothing to this team the trade really looks like this

Zach and Jones

for

James Jones, Fernandez, Frye and 30 million dollars in savings. along with some cap flexability in 2 years. 


Is that right? I think so.

It also opens up playing time for a player already better than Zach in many areas of the game. And changes the way the team will approach it's offensive and defensive philosophy.


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## wizmentor (Nov 10, 2005)

Ed O said:


> I'm afraid there does not.
> 
> The Phoenix deal and the NY deal are totally tied at the hip. Portland HAD to trade with NY to get the trade exception to make the Phoenix deal.
> 
> ...


Interestingly, MB says that we wanted Jones, and they threw in Fernandez. I wonder whether he's using inside sources, or just guessing.


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## Rip City Reign (Jul 1, 2007)

ProZach said:


> Except, their isn't...


If there isn't more to this, then KP has some explaining to do about his comments:

1) The acclaimed player--Fernandez and Jones not acclaimed
2) The player casual fans would know (mentioned to Sports Sunday)


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## ProZach (Oct 13, 2005)

Rip City Reign said:


> If there isn't more to this, then KP has some explaining to do about his comments:


As does mediocre man, but that's not going to happen either. Some people just like to lie to others. No human decency at all.

Oh here's a  That should patch things up nicely.


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## GOD (Jun 22, 2003)

*An opinion that matters to me*

So I don't know if anyone cares about this but I just spoke with someone whose basketball opinion I hold in high esteem and we spoke about Rudy. I ran into him at lunch which was the first time I have seen him in at least 5 years, a very good guy.

He was my first basketball coach from almost 20 years ago is now a food buyer and travles often all over Europe. He has seen Rudy (and Sergio) play many times when he can squeeze a game in. And I was shocked at how wowed coach was about Rudy. The entire time we were talking he kept going back to how you never knew what he was going to do on offense. Every time you thought he was going for a three pointer he drove to the basket, and every time you thought he was going to drive he nailed it from outside. Coach said that Rudy is as quick as any SG in the NBA. When I asked for a player comparision he said a cross between Reggie Miller and Jon Barry. kind of a weird mix. I am getting excited about seeing him next year.


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## Anonymous Gambler (May 29, 2006)

*Re: Done Deal!!!*



dwood615 said:


> thank god your anonymous cuz if i knew you id slap you


Now..Now.. Don't get excited, ma'am.


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## Boob-No-More (Apr 24, 2006)

PorterIn2004 said:


> I think they're viewing Jones as a steal and at least the mid-term and maybe long-term solution at SF. After all, he's a guy who plays defense (which Nate will like) doesn't seem to need the ball to be happy (a fine thing given how much they're planning to go through Aldridge and Roy, not to mention Oden with time) _and_ he shoots a very good percentage from outside (something the Blazers have been lacking for ages).


You must have a very forgiving definition of "very good percentage from the outside". Since when is a career FG% less than 0.400 considered a "very good percentage"? For comparison...

James Jones:
2006-2007 0.368 FG%, 0.378 3FG%, PER = 10.8

Ime Udoka:
2006-2007 0.461 FG%, 0.406 3FG%, PER = 12.1

James Jones:
Career 0.395 FG%, 0.385 3FG%, PER = 11.6

Ime Udoka:
Career 0.455 FG%, 0.404 3FG%, PER = 11.7

To me, James Jones looks like a slightly taller, slightly younger, worse shooting version of Ime Udoka. If that's all it takes to be an "acclaimed" player, why aren't we willing to give Ime more than $2 million a year? I guess it's because we just gave his roster spot and role on the team to James Jones. Is Jones really an upgrade, or is he just this year's stop gap starting SF - someone to hold down that spot until we can get a REAL starting caliber SF to address our biggest need?

Jones is three years younger than Ime. However, he holds a player option of $3.156 million for the 2008-2009 season. So, if he ends up being our staring SF in 2007-2008, he may think he's worth more and opt out. If so, we'll find ourselves in the exact same position next summer with James Jones as we are with Ime now - either re-sign him and reduce what we'd have in available cap space during the summer of 2009, or let him walk and be looking at once again needing to obtain a new starting SF - our fourth in four years. Hopefully, it will then become five in five years as we finally address the need for a long term solution at SF with all that cap space we'll potentially have during the summer of 2009.

BNM


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## whatsmyname (Jul 6, 2007)

great!! im big on james jones.. he looks like a good team player and shooter


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## Boob-No-More (Apr 24, 2006)

whatsmyname said:


> great!! im big on james jones.. he looks like a good team player and shooter


Again, since when is a guy with a career FG% less than 40% a good shooter? I just don't understand how James Jones, in the minds of some posters, got this reputation of being a good shooter. His stats certainly don't support such claims. 

During his last season with the Blazers, Derek Anderson shot the ball better (0.389 FG%, 0.384 3FG%) than James Jones did last year (.368 FG%, 0.378 3FG%) and yet I don't recall many posters praising DA for HIS excellent outside shooting.

And yes, I realize DA wasn't considered a good leader/locker room guy like Jones, but the two issues are separate. Just because Jones may be a good guy doesn't somehow make him shoot like Steve Kerr. Again look at his shooting percentages and tell me how James Jones qualifies as a "good shooter". 

BNM


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## Blazer Ringbearer (Jan 28, 2003)

Interesting - almost exactly half of Jones' FGA throughout his career have been 3 point attempts.

I guess that explains why his 3FG% is so close to his overall FG%


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## sa1177 (Feb 18, 2005)

*Re: Done Deal!!!*



wizmentor said:


> Zach's D is right down there with Charles Barkley, who made an all-star game or 2.
> Zach is only 25.
> I'm not saying, nor have I ever said, that Zach isn't a good fit. It's that we should have gotten much more.


Did you just compare Zbo to Charles Barkely? 

In all fairness Barkely did average over a steal more the Zbo for his career. 

I am sure we tried to get "much more," I just don't think the offers where there though.


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## dwood615 (Jul 20, 2004)

*Re: Done Deal!!!*



Ed O said:


> It's shocking that more people don't agree with your points...
> 
> Ed O.


hahahahahahaha


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## sanfranduck (Jan 31, 2005)

wizmentor said:


> Interestingly, MB says that we wanted Jones, and they threw in Fernandez. I wonder whether he's using inside sources, or just guessing.



Oregonlive said it was the other way around. Portland agreed to use its trade exception to take Jones off of Phoenix's hands, but wanted the #24 pick for their troubles. I supposed it doesn't really matter which is true but it's funny to read these perspectives.


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## Crimson the Cat (Dec 30, 2002)

I've only seen a few games of Rudy Fernandez. For me, he's the largest attraction with this trade. He sure looks like a starting 1 or 2 on contending team to me. Electrifying scorer, all-around offensive skills. Either the perfect 6th-man or our starting 1/2 with Roy being the other 1/2. Frye second (put him on a team instead of a mess and you've got a talented 4/5). Jones third. Cap space fourth. I could care less about the millions it saves Allen. Not coming out of my pocket (until ticket and hot dogs go up in cost). The bonus is giving the starting 4 role to Aldridge and opening up two roster spots in our backcourt; not to mention, not having to improve a team in the West.

I'd like to see someone on this board come up with a better return than the above. Seems like Pritchard and company again worked hard on finding the best option for Portland and got it done!


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## barfo (Jan 2, 2003)

Boob-No-More said:


> Again, since when is a guy with a career FG% less than 40% a good shooter? I just don't understand how James Jones, in the minds of some posters, got this reputation of being a good shooter. His stats certainly don't support such claims.
> 
> During his last season with the Blazers, Derek Anderson shot the ball better (0.389 FG%, 0.384 3FG%) than James Jones did last year (.368 FG%, 0.378 3FG%) and yet I don't recall many posters praising DA for HIS excellent outside shooting.
> 
> ...


Well, I have no idea whether he is a good shooter or not. But if I were to defend the idea that he is, I'd say that comparing DA and Jones might not be a fair comparison because DA probably had plays run for him (although I don't clearly remember DA's final year, so maybe I'm wrong). Whereas, potentially Jones only got shots in Phoenix's offense when things broke down and he got dumped the ball with nothing to do but hurk it towards the backboard. 

Like I said, I have no idea whether any of that is true or not. But I could imagine a scenario where a good shooter has a bad percentage because he's given only difficult shots.

[If you'd like to hear my thoughts on other things I don't know anything about, hey, just wait for my next post!]

barfo


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## BBert (Dec 30, 2004)

sanfranduck said:


> Oregonlive said it was the other way around. Portland agreed to use its trade exception to take Jones off of Phoenix's hands, but wanted the #24 pick for their troubles. I supposed it doesn't really matter which is true but it's funny to read these perspectives.


Yes. Regardless of MBs interesting wording, the prize was Rudy. Taking Jones off of the Suns' hands was part of the cost of acquiring him. Luckily, getting rid of Jones was a win for the Suns, and acquiring him was a win for us (I hope). And Penn made it happen. :clap:


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## Boob-No-More (Apr 24, 2006)

barfo said:


> Well, I have no idea whether he is a good shooter or not. But if I were to defend the idea that he is, I'd say that comparing DA and Jones might not be a fair comparison because DA probably had plays run for him (although I don't clearly remember DA's final year, so maybe I'm wrong). Whereas, potentially Jones only got shots in Phoenix's offense when things broke down and he got dumped the ball with nothing to do but hurk it towards the backboard.


Well, at least you gave it a shot. However... James Jones played in Phoenix with Steve Nash at the PG spot. This equals lots of wide open scoring opportunities. DA played with Damon Stoudamire at PG. This equals Damon dribbling pointlessly until the shot clock winds down to 4 sec. and then passing to DA (or someone else, or no one else) to launch a hurried desperation shot to avoid a shot clock violation.

Not that I'm defending DA's shooting, but if anything, he was at a disadvantage compared to James Jones when considering who was running the offense and passing them the ball.

It's not that James Jones is a horrendous shooter, but I certainly wouldn't consider him a good shooter either. I think what really happened is when his name first came up in an earlier thread someone described him as a good outside shooter and most people accepted that as the gospel truth and never bothered to question his actual shooting ability - and it gained momentum from there. It seems like every time his name gets mentioned now there is a comment about his good outside shooting or his ability to knock down open shots. 

The reality is he's no Steve Kerr or Jason Koppono. Heck, when it comes to shooting, he's not even in the same class as Brent Barry, Ray Allen, Luther Head, Anthony Parker, Kyle Korver or even his own teammates Steve Nash, Leandro Barbosa or Raja Bell.

And for as much grief as he gets around here (myself included), Adam Morrison shot better from the field last year than James Jones.

BNM


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## mook (Dec 31, 2002)

Boob-No-More said:


> It's not that James Jones is a horrendous shooter, but I certainly wouldn't consider him a good shooter either. I think what really happened is when his name first came up in an earlier thread someone described him as a good outside shooter and most people accepted that as the gospel truth and never bothered to question his actual shooting ability - and it gained momentum from there. It seems like every time his name gets mentioned now there is a comment about his good outside shooting or his ability to knock down open shots.


I don't really disagree with most of your post, but I think there's more to Jones' shooting than you are giving credit. From Wikipedia:



> James Andrew Jones (born October 4, 1980 in Miami, Florida) is an American professional basketball player for the Portland Trail Blazers of the NBA.
> 
> The 6'8" (203cm), 215 lb (98 kg) small forward who attended American Senior High was picked 49th by the Indiana Pacers in the 2003 NBA Draft out of the University of Miami. After playing in only six games during his rookie campaign, *he played almost a full season during 2004-05, averaging 4.9 points per game while also ranking 25th in the NBA in three-point conversion percentage (39.8%).*


so basically he was a scrub second round pick who only hung around the NBA because of one year of pretty darned good three point shooting. 

he was also a 40% three point shooter in college, although it was obviously a shorter distance.

also, DA got to play 40 minutes a night, regardless of how bad he shot. Jones had the added pressure of knowing he was going to get yanked after one or two misses. that does affect many shooters. 

is he Steve Kerr? clearly no. but he does seem able to shoot a respectable percentage while coming off the bench in limited minutes.


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## Boob-No-More (Apr 24, 2006)

mook said:


> I don't really disagree with most of your post, but I think there's more to Jones' shooting than you are giving credit. From Wikipedia:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So, he had one year three seasons ago where he was the 25th best 3-point shooter in the league. FWIW, last season, Ime Udoka was the 20th best 3-point shooter in the league (James Jones was 48th). As I said, he's not a horrendous shooter, but I certainly don't see why anyone would get excited over his shooting ability. It's no better (worse, in fact) than what we had last year in Ime Udoka.

So, again how exactly is James Jones an upgrade over previous our starting SF? 

BNM

P.S. And the year I referenced, DA started 32 of 47 games and averaged 26.4 MPG. Not that it really matters, but he hardly "got to play 40 minutes a night, regardless of how bad he shot".


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## Five5even (Jun 15, 2007)

So are we all still buying into Mediocre Man's mysterious trade philosophy?

because i recall on more than one occasion that this James Jones deal was not the trade that MM had in mind. In fact, he siad that he thought Jack, Joel and Webster were likely trade bait by the start of next season.

So where is this trade MM? is it still on? or could you please tell us more info on your thoughts instead of jerking our chain!

What the Efff MM, shed some insight!


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

What will Portland's depth chart look like? I've heard Fernandez will play in Spain another year? What about Kaponen?

PG: Jarrett Jack...Sergio Rodriguez...Taurean Green
SG: Brandon Roy...Martell Webster
SF: Travis Outlaw...James Jones...Darius Miles
PF: LaMarcus Aldridge...Channing Frye...Josh McRoberts
C: Greg Oden...Joel Przybilla...Raef LaFrentz


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

mediocre man said:


> Since DD meant nothing to this team the trade really looks like this
> 
> Zach and Jones
> 
> ...


Whoa whoa there...you're not saving $30M at all. The buyout negotiated with Francis still paid him over $30M for the next two years.


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## Tortimer (Jun 4, 2007)

Damian Necronamous said:


> Whoa whoa there...you're not saving $30M at all. The buyout negotiated with Francis still paid him over $30M for the next two years.


No I think he meant Francis salary is 30 million cheaper then Zach's.


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## hasoos (Jan 3, 2003)

Five5even said:


> So are we all still buying into Mediocre Man's mysterious trade philosophy?
> 
> because i recall on more than one occasion that this James Jones deal was not the trade that MM had in mind. In fact, he siad that he thought Jack, Joel and Webster were likely trade bait by the start of next season.
> 
> ...


Well all I can say is "PUDDING" :biggrin: :worthy:


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## Oldmangrouch (Feb 11, 2003)

*Re: Done Deal!!!*



sa1177 said:


> I am sure we tried to get "much more," I just don't think the offers where there though.


This is where some of us just don't agree.

In any negotiation, the winner is almost always the party that is more willing to walk away from the table. When you go in with the attitude "I'm can't leave without a deal", you might as well just bend over and grab your ankles.

We didn't get the best deal possible, simply because the other teams did not believe that KP had the stones to hang on to Zach until he got the right deal. They believed, correctly, that KP would surrender to the PR pressure.

There is also the distinct, and disturbing, possibility that KP was ordered to make a deal based on *money*, instead of talent.


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## GOD (Jun 22, 2003)

hasoos said:


> Well all I can say is "PUDDING" :biggrin: :worthy:


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## Utherhimo (Feb 20, 2005)

rudy is one of the top 12 to 15 player in the draft!


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## craigehlo (Feb 24, 2005)

*Re: Done Deal!!!*



Oldmangrouch said:


> In any negotiation, the winner is almost always the party that is more willing to walk away from the table. When you go in with the attitude "I'm can't leave without a deal", you might as well just bend over and grab your ankles.


This isn't a guy trying to buy Honda off a salesman at a car lot. These are negotiations involving millions of dollars and huge contracts between corporations. Kevin did the absolute best deal that he could for Zbo that fit within the timeline they expecting to build a championship contender.


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## MARIS61 (Apr 28, 2003)

He was stammering.

It sounded like acclaimed player.

Maybe he said a LAME player.

Seriously, I thought he was talking about a completely separate deal, and still do.

No casual fan has ever heard of Rudy, Jones or Frye.


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## MARIS61 (Apr 28, 2003)

"This was a very rare trade, in that the Blazers sent a player out and got nothing in return."

This is the most accurate part of his explanation, and the only one needed.


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## MARIS61 (Apr 28, 2003)

Damian Necronamous said:



> Whoa whoa there...you're not saving $30M at all. The buyout negotiated with Francis still paid him over $30M for the next two years.


Also the money that Zach would have received after that will go TOWARD the exhorbitant sums Oden, LA and Roy will want. So $30 mil + our best player just to get Rudy, who we don't get yet.

Oh, and another couple years waiting for LA to learn the exact offense Zach had down to a T.

Nate has already said he wants LA to forget the 15 footer and post up.:azdaja: 

Here we go again.

Lenny Wilkens is available.


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## Rip City Reign (Jul 1, 2007)

MARIS61 said:


> Oh, and another couple years waiting for LA to learn the exact offense Zach had down to a T.
> 
> 
> Lenny Wilkens is available.


Exactly what offense is that? Give me the damn ball and get out of the way? Zach is a scoring savant, but to say he had the grasp of ANY offense is stretching the truth just a bit.


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## M3M (Jun 19, 2006)

this is great news. Everything pulled together nicely.


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## wizmentor (Nov 10, 2005)

MARIS61 said:


> Nate has already said he wants LA to forget the 15 footer and post up.:azdaja:


Only during summer league. He's not trying to turn Brandon into our starting PG, and he's not trying to get LMA to play full-time in the post.


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## MARIS61 (Apr 28, 2003)

wizmentor said:


> Only during summer league. He's not trying to turn Brandon into our starting PG, and he's not trying to get LMA to play full-time in the post.


We'll see.

Hard to teach an old dog like Nate new tricks.


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