# If the Lakers could do this trade...



## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

would you want to?

Chicago trades: Ben Gordon ( ppg, rpg, apg in minutes)
Chicago receives: SF Jumaine Jones	(2.2 ppg, 1.6 rpg, 0.3 apg in 8.9 minutes)
SG Kareem Rush	(6.4 ppg, 1.4 rpg, 0.8 apg in 17.3 minutes)
PF Luke Walton	(2.4 ppg, 1.8 rpg, 1.6 apg in 10.1 minutes)
Change in team outlook: +11.0 ppg, +4.8 rpg, and +2.7 apg.

L.A. Lakers trades: SF Jumaine Jones	(2.2 ppg, 1.6 rpg, 0.3 apg in 8.9 minutes)
SG Kareem Rush	(6.4 ppg, 1.4 rpg, 0.8 apg in 17.3 minutes)
PF Luke Walton	(2.4 ppg, 1.8 rpg, 1.6 apg in 10.1 minutes)
L.A. Lakers receives: Ben Gordon	( ppg, rpg, apg in games)
Change in team outlook: -11.0 ppg, -4.8 rpg, and -2.7 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

Due to Chicago and L.A. Lakers being over the cap, the 15% trade rule is invoked. Chicago and L.A. Lakers had to be no more than 115% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.


This deal would have to happen after Dec. 15th. 

New Laker projected lineup: 

PG - Ben Gordon...Chucky Atkins...Tierre Brown
SG - Kobe Bryant...Sasha Vujacic
SF - Lamar Odom...Caron Butler...Devean George
PF - Brian Grant...Slava Medvedenko...Brian Cook
C - Vlade Divac...Chris Mihm


----------



## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

I'm not even sure he's worth Rush, Walton and Jones. How can he play at the NBA level? It's unknown as of yet. 

Too early to judge, but my first instinct would be yes.


----------



## RP McMurphy (Jul 17, 2003)

Trading quantity for quality is almost always a good idea. Ben Gordon is much more valuable than anything the Lakers give up here, so it's a good trade. I have to think the Bulls could get more for Gordon than this garbage, although if they're desperate to get rid of a logjam at point guard, they'd be in a good position to get ripped off.


----------



## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>RP McMurphy</b>!
> Trading quantity for quality is almost always a good idea. Ben Gordon is much more valuable than anything the Lakers give up here, so it's a good trade. I have to think the Bulls could get more for Gordon than this garbage, although if they're desperate to get rid of a logjam at point guard, they'd be in a good position to get ripped off.


He's forced to play PG in the NBA because he's 6'2", but he's not really a PG. His strongest quality is scoring and creating, very athletic. I could see him turning into a Baron Davis type of player, but he'd need to learn how to pass and see the court a lot better.


----------



## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>RP McMurphy</b>!
> Trading quantity for quality is almost always a good idea. Ben Gordon is much more valuable than anything the Lakers give up here, so it's a good trade. I have to think the Bulls could get more for Gordon than this garbage, although if they're desperate to get rid of a logjam at point guard, they'd be in a good position to get ripped off.


unless you are the rockets trading for tmac. then it's a bad idea.

but yes this is a good deal for the lakers. they don't need rush, walton, or jones and get a pg that they definately need out of the deal.

i don't think the bulls would even think about the deal though. there's a reason they took gordon so high and it wasn't so they could trade him for a backup sg and twp backup sfs.


----------



## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

Actually, if anything, Gordon is trade bait. Hinrich is very, very popular the Paxon and a very good young PG, on *both* sides of the ball. That's a rare find. Gordon is no where near that proven. 

However, we've yet to see how Gordon will pan out on the NBA level. He may be better than Hinrich.


----------



## Johnny Mac (May 6, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>EHL</b>!
> He's forced to play PG in the NBA because he's 6'2", but he's not really a PG. His strongest quality is scoring and creating, very athletic. I could see him turning into a Baron Davis type of player, but he'd need to learn how to pass and see the court a lot better.


Bingo.

I dont know if I'd do this trade yet, from the perspective of a Bulls fan, Rush is a nice player, but we'll see what happens. I think the Bulls could do better.


----------



## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

Chicago would be laughing at this. A trade for Gordon would have to begin with Lamar Odom.

That trade is ridiculous and obviously the Lakers would take it and run run run run run


----------



## Pinball (Aug 3, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Amareca</b>!
> Chicago would be laughing at this. A trade for Gordon would have to begin with Lamar Odom.
> 
> That trade is ridiculous and obviously the Lakers would take it and run run run run run


I wouldn't go that far. "Begin with Lamar Odom"? Odom is infinitely better than Gordon right now and damn near the same age. For you to imply that the Lakers would have to give up Odom and much much more is just preposterous. Chicago will wait to see how this plays out but if Gordon is a bust the Lakers could probably get him for Caron Butler straight up.


----------



## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

LOL

For Caron Butler straight up? Ben Gordon was a consensus top 3 pick in the draft.

Ben Gordon is 21, Lamar Odom is 25. That isn't near the same age by NBA standards. Not even close.

If Gordon doesn't fit in in Chicago right away and Chicago decides to trade him that quickly there will be a ton of offers much better than just Caron Butler , who btw is a dime a dozen player.


----------



## Locke (Jun 16, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Amareca</b>!
> LOL
> 
> For Caron Butler straight up? Ben Gordon was a consensus top 3 pick in the draft.
> ...


Who cares where he was drafted? He was a top 3 pick in a weak draft. Whereas Caron Butler would've been top 5 in a good draft had it not been for some of his past issues. But anyway the Bulls have no reason to make a trade like this. If they didn't want Gordon they could easily get something better than Laker bench scraps. Offer up Butler though and they _may_ start listening.

However I still don't understand why the Bulls even drafted this guy since they already seem to be sky-high on Captain Kirk. If they think of Gordon as an Iverson-type SG they're going to be disappointed.

I would do the trade though if I was the Lakers. No doubt about it. Because those 3 players we'd be trading are going to see close to no playing time this year. Rush included. Whoever backs up Kobe won't see much time.


----------



## Sánchez AF (Aug 10, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> would you want to?
> 
> Chicago trades: Ben Gordon ( ppg, rpg, apg in minutes)
> ...


:laugh: never 

If just the raptors could do this trade:

Raptors Trade: Jalen Rose

Spurs Trade: Tim Duncan


----------



## Lakerman33 (Oct 16, 2004)

this trade would not happen....the bulls arent gonna trade a rookie they just drafted. very unrealistic


----------



## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

*Re: Re: If the Lakers could do this trade...*



> Originally posted by <b>SpeakerBoxxX</b>!
> 
> 
> :laugh: never
> ...


*unnecessary*  

So now dealing a guy who hasn't proven anything in the league is tantamount to trading Duncan for Rose huh? 

Stick to Raptors news please. Grown folks are talking basketball here.


----------



## BallStateCards (Oct 14, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Lakerman33</b>!
> this trade would not happen....the bulls arent gonna trade a rookie they just drafted. very unrealistic


They would, unlike the NFL, NBA rookies are VERY tradeable.


----------



## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ClayVTrainum</b>!
> 
> 
> They would, unlike the NFL, NBA rookies are VERY tradeable.


Yeah right please list all first round picks that were drafted, played for the team and traded within their first season...

Now list all the lottery picks traded within their first season, now all top 3 picks.

I am waiting...


----------



## bballlife (Oct 5, 2003)

I need to see Gordon more but that 4-18 outing the other night didnt look good. 
I hope he turns into a Baron Davis type as opposed to a poor mans iverson. 

The Lakers could use a true point, a guy that sees the floor, distributes well, and doesnt always look for his shot.


----------



## BallStateCards (Oct 14, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Amareca</b>!
> 
> 
> Yeah right please list all first round picks that were drafted, played for the team and traded within their first season...
> ...


a) I don't want to take the time to look that up

b) I was just saying that the deal isn't unrealistic. I don't think it will happen

In the NBA they can determine your particular skill set relatively quickly as opposed to the NFL and other leagues, in which it could take a few years.


----------



## SheriffKilla (Jan 1, 2004)

i dont see the bulls doing that trade right now and i wouldnt do it
just because gordon could end up a great scorer 
but
i think later bulls will possibily regret it
we already know about walton and rush and jones is just filler
walton is a pretty good passer/spark off bench/tema player
and rush is a good shooter even though all over he is garbage
but at the same time i've never been that high on gordon
i didnt even rank him in the top 10 in my draft rankings


----------



## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

I'd do this trade in a *heartbeat*.

Lakers wouldn't really be losing much, and getting Gordon would be a huge plus. Trust me on this, he will be great.


----------



## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

Why are people so dismissive of a trade for Gordon. he isn't that special at best he's a tweener who will never run the pg spot. With the Lakers he could play well because of Odom's and Kobe's playmaking ability. But with the Bulls he's always gonna be the odd man out because he doesn't have the skills to unseat Hinrich at point. 

Now the Bulls need Veteran players. Getting Rush would be a good trade for them. They need scorers and Rush could fill that role as a sg. They have small forwards so trading for Walton would make much sense. 

I think the lakers giving up Cook might make more sense. The Bulls could use him more as a skilled sub 4. 

Gordon is a 3rd pick in the worst draft in years. He doesn't have the same value. Almost every team has a tweener pg. 

I'm also hearing that his defense at pg might not be anything special which really doesn't help the Lakers all that much we need a defender at the point. 

No way I give up Butler though . They don't need him anyway. 

Bulls might be getting the better of this deal because Rush could stretch the floor for them and play good defense at the 2. He has improved in that area. 

The Lakers wouldn't be in a hurry to give up Rush for that matter. 

We have no one on the team with his pure stroke.


----------



## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

Is this a pure hypothetical from the Lakers standpoint? Because why would the Bulls trade a future 1st to have two lottery picks when they trade the higher selection of the two before he plays a game?


----------



## Pinball (Aug 3, 2002)

Why do the Bulls keep doing this to themselves? They draft Elton Brand, a PF, in 1999 with the #1 pick and then proceed to draft another PF in Marcus Fizer in 2000. They draft Jamal Crawford in 2000 and then draft Jay Williams in 2002. They were playing the same position. Once Jay Williams got hurt they brough in Hinrich and tried to play Crawford at SG. Now, they draft Gordon to replace Crawford at SG but he's probably going to be backing up Hinrich this year. What the hell are they doing? Imagine their roster if they had held onto to certain players and picked other players with their draft picks:

1999-Elton Brand (don't trade him for Chandler)
1999-Ron Artest (don't trade him for Rose)
2000-Instead of drafting Fizer trade down and nab Magloire
2000-Instead of drafting Crawford get Q. Richardson

This would have likely dramatically altered the course of their franchise:

PG-Hinrich
SG-Richardson
SF-Artest
PF-Brand
C-Magloire

They'd have a decent bench too, albeit with lower picks because of greater success.


----------



## spiraling (Feb 16, 2003)

you can't consider rush as a scrub because this guy can straight light it up from outside. If you give this guy starting mins he can give you 15ppg+ every game. He's defend is decent not great but decent. 

Besides we don't even know how good Gordon is going to be yet. Gordon is more of an offensive 2 guard and is not known for def. Gordon wants the in his hand, but we alrdy have 2 that wants the ball in their hand. And as of right now Odom is not looking good without the ball in his hand.


----------



## Pinball (Aug 3, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>spiraling</b>!
> And as of right now Odom is not looking good without the ball in his hand.


That worries me. I always feared this about Odom. I've always been weary of the "jack of trades, master of none" type players. It's alright if you are a role player but we're not counting on Odom to be our sixth man. He's our second best player and we need production and efficiency from him. I'm worried that he's not going to be strong enough to bang with the PFs in the West and too poor of a shooter to play SF full time. It's early but the early returns are not good.


----------



## Sánchez AF (Aug 10, 2003)

*Re: Re: Re: If the Lakers could do this trade...*



> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> 
> 
> *unnecessary*
> ...


Ok then give me one reason for the bulls do that. 

You dont trade rookie with that potencial (even if he not prove anything in the NBA yet) for a "old" player and two below average young players.

You want depth analisis lets do it:

*Jumaine Jones:* 25 yrs old. 6'8, 218...
Decent bench player never averga more than 10 ppg... some teams can use him but not the Bulls. they are looking for Young players and cap room also they have Andres Nocioni and Loul Deng to player SF so no room for Jumaine.

*Luke Walton:* 24 yrs old 6'8 235...
Hardwork player but same case another SF... 

*Kareem Rush:* 24 yrs old 6'6 215...
Maybe the best player in the deal ( for the lakers) nice 3pt shoter coming from the bench but he can hadle the starter position ??? I dont think so...

for the other side we have: 

*Ben Gordon* 21 yrs old 6'3 200 lbs.
Rookie with a tons of potencial very talented great hoops. he can play a shoot first PG or SG, very agressive player on O and D. nice defender very young. can develop into Baron Davis type of player thats worth the risk of keep him instead of trade him for 3 average players 

Dont yo think ?


----------



## Sánchez AF (Aug 10, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Locke</b>!
> 
> 
> Who cares where he was drafted? He was a top 3 pick in a weak draft. Whereas Caron Butler would've been top 5 in a good draft


Check both drafts...

Dwight Howard
Emeka Okafor
*Ben Gordon*
Shaun Livingston
Devin Harris
Josh Childress
Loul Deng
Rafael Araujo
Andre Iguodala
Luke Jackson

First of all check the "battle" there was TOP 3 PG's in the first 10 picks and all very good players a High Profile Rookie and a great 
College veteran in Emeka. Plus Top SwingMan in Andre Josh Loul and Luke... for the other side Caron was drafted 10 in a weak SF draft. Only Mike Dunleavy and Tayshun Prince (#23) are the others good SF's in the first Round... There was Yao no contest here the Jay Williams (OUT of the NBA) Drew Gooden still nothing.. Skita total bust Dajuan Wagenr nice first yr. he disappear after that Nene Nice Big man not Star player Same with Wilcox and then Amare maybe the best player in this draft or tie with Yao.

So dont tell me is a weak draft until you see this guys play.


----------



## JerryWest (Jun 24, 2002)

IMO, Childress has bust written all over his forehead.

The only sure things in this draft into turning into something decent are Emeka and Howard. After that it was pretty much a crap shot as to who would be picked.

I think JR Smith and Wright have star potential down the line, but the other players IMO are role players at best.


----------



## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: If the Lakers could do this trade...*



> Originally posted by <b>SpeakerBoxxX</b>!
> 
> 
> Ok then give me one reason for the bulls do that.
> ...


What in Gordon's game tells you he has Baron Davis type potential. Baron Davis is a pure pg that scores. Gordon is all scorer. BD avergaed 8 apg Gordon hasn't been dropping dimes since summer league nor the preseason games. He's not a passer at all. He can't run a team even alittle sufficiently. 

He has Wagner with more hops written all over him. He can score and create a shot and maybe he will develop alittle defense but BD heck no. Actually BD hurt his own game by being asked to score so much if he had more help he could average 10apg. 

Gordon doesn't have any of the pg skills and I was hopeful when he came in that he did but he doesn't.


----------



## Sánchez AF (Aug 10, 2003)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: If the Lakers could do this trade...*



> Originally posted by <b>jazzy1</b>!
> 
> 
> What in Gordon's game tells you he has Baron Davis type potential. Baron Davis is a pure pg that scores. Gordon is all scorer. BD avergaed 8 apg Gordon hasn't been dropping dimes since summer league nor the preseason games. He's not a passer at all. He can't run a team even alittle sufficiently.
> ...


Like I say just wait you never know what can heppen ?


----------



## Locke (Jun 16, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>SpeakerBoxxX</b>!
> 
> So dont tell me is a weak draft until you see this guys play.


When I say "weak draft" I'm basing it off of how the scouts assessed these players at the time, not how they've turned out since (which is all that matters). It was a common opinion among those scouts that there really wasn't a lot of "superstar-calibre" talent coming out of this past draft. But that isn't my point. You actually just argued FOR my point. You said Skita, Jay Williams, Drew Gooden, Dajuan Wagner and Chris Wilcox either suck or are nothing special as players. I don't think it's fair to knock Williams because it was the motorcycle accident that forced him out of the league, not because he couldn't play. BUT, the rest of what you said I agree with. And that's what I'm saying, those guys got drafted high and haven't done squat, and it could be the same thing with Ben Gordon. I'm not saying he can't be a good player, but saying he's this and he's that because he was drafted #3 doesn't hold up. That's why I said "who cares what position he was drafted in?" Because in the scheme of thing it doesn't matter. Same goes for Butler.


----------



## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: If the Lakers could do this trade...*



> Originally posted by <b>SpeakerBoxxX</b>!
> 
> 
> Like I say just wait you never know what can heppen ?


Listen I'm not down on him because I was braggin on him coming outta school but he doesn't have any real pg instincts. 

I think in the right system he could be a helluva player. I just don't think he fits with the Bulls because oif Hinrich whom I love as a player. 

With the lakers he could find a really good role. 


I'm feeling you Locke on your last post.


----------



## Sánchez AF (Aug 10, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Locke</b>!
> 
> 
> When I say "weak draft"





> Originally posted by <b>Locke</b>!
> 
> 
> Who cares where he was drafted? He was a top 3 pick in a *weak draft.* Whereas Caron Butler would've been top 5 in a good draft had it not been for some of his past issues. But anyway the Bulls have no reason to make a trade like this. If they didn't want Gordon they could easily get something better than Laker bench scraps. Offer up Butler though and they _may_ start listening.


----------



## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

^ How's that disprove his point? This latest draft was weak, it was sorry. Period.


----------



## SPIN DOCTOR (Oct 31, 2002)

When do the grownups begin to talk about basketball???

As for the trade, a firm no-thanks from the Bulls side.


----------



## SPIN DOCTOR (Oct 31, 2002)

Forgot to add...

Caron Butler is considered "damaged goods" by many league observers, due to chronic knee issues. That is what downgraded his draft status, not character issues, lets try and be accurate.

CB4 would have to beat out Niconi and Deng for PT, he could potentially (notice I said P) be the third-string SF on the Bulls. It hardly seems feasable or likely that you could return Ben Gordon (SI ROY pick), for a role player, the assets are not there.


----------

