# 18 ways for the Knicks to use their injury exception



## robyg1974 (Jul 19, 2002)

The Knicks miraculously DID get an injury exception from the league as a result of the Antonio McDyess injury. The exception is worth just under $4.6 mil ($4.58 mil to be exact). This means that they can take on $4.6 mil in salary via trade in exchange for just a 2nd round pick. Why? Because the injury exception means that the salaries don’t have to match up—they don’t even have to come CLOSE to matching up (assuming I understand the CBA rules properly, which I may not, someone please confirm or deny this)! In other words, teams will be beating down Scott Layden’s door over the next few weeks. Why? Because there are a TON of teams out there who DESPERATELY want to dump payroll, and this is perfect opportunity for them to do it.

The Knicks actually have a couple of options here: a) try to get better for THIS YEAR, or b) start rebuilding already. If they want to start rebuilding, they really only have one guy with ANY trade value AT ALL: Kurt Thomas. Thomas is 30 years old, so he’s already past his prime, so maybe they should go ahead and see what they can get for the guy. If they want to keep Thomas for themselves and try to win THIS YEAR—which seems impossible, but never underestimate Layden’s desperation to appease ownership and season ticket holders—they can take on some unwanted salaries of guys who can help them out.

So, without further ado, here are the 18 possible ways for Layden to use this trade exception. I have the possibilities ranked—I start with #18 and count it down all the way to #1. Here you go, fellers!

#18 Mavs trade: Evan Eschmeyer for Knicks’ 2003 2nd round pick. The Mavs really have no use for Eschmeyer, not this year, not next year, not ever. Would Eschmeyer start at center for the Knicks, allowing Thomas to move over to PF? Well, I don’t know. There’s a reason this trade is ranked #18, you know—it sucks!

#17 Wizards trade: Jahidi White for Lavor Postell. Michael Jordan and the Wiz want to clear up as much cap room for next summer while SIMULTANEOUSLY trying to win as many games as possible this season. What this means is that they would LOVE to get rid of superfluous veterans with multiyear contracts. In other words, Jahidi White and Christian Laettner. White begins the season on the IR, but, when he comes back, wouldn’t he start at center for the Knicks, allowing Thomas to move over to PF? Like the previous trade, this is a pretty lousy trade for New York—they are taking on payroll without really getting any better AT ALL. But White would certainly get some minutes in New York. If he stays with Washington, he may never touch the FLOOR this season.

#16 Pacers trade: Austin Croshere for Othella Harrington. The Pacers have six free agents to worry about re-signing next summer, and Croshere’s godawful longterm contract makes a difficult task that much tougher. Plus, Croshere apparently has plantar fascitis, the chronic foot problem that plagues guys like Toni Kukoc, Marcus Camby, Glen Rice, and others. PLUS, Croshere is buried on the bench in Indiana. But, if he could get healthy, he would be given an opportunity for major minutes in New York. Harrington’s contract lasts for three more years, but he makes significantly less money than does Croshere, which makes re-signing those six dudes next summer a whole lot easier.

#15 Hawks trade A: DerMarr Johnson and Alan Henderson for Kurt Thomas. The Hawks are in terrible shape financially—they are looking at a nearly $60 million payroll next season even if they DON’T re-sign Jason Terry, who will command close to the max. And this is a team that may not even make the playoffs. Not to mention a team that has a hell of a time convincing people to come see them play. Johnson was the #6 overall pick a couple of years ago, and I’m pretty sure that he is expected to recover fully from his season-ending neck injury sustained in a car accident a few weeks ago. The Hawks are trying to win NOW, so Thomas really helps. Getting rid of Henderson’s inexplicable salary (who gave him all that money and WHY, for the love of god WHY?) is really helpful for the Hawks, as well. The key to the deal for New York is obviously Johnson. This is a pretty bad trade, because Johnson was looking like a bust even BEFORE he got hurt.

#14 Magic trade A: Darrell Armstrong, Andrew DeClercq, Steven Hunter, Jerryl Sasser, and Ryan Humphrey for Kurt Thomas. Thomas is obviously exactly what Orlando needs, in case anybody out there is mentally retarded. Grant Hill could move over to PG full-time for Orlando (Jacque Vaughn could back him up), Mike Miller could start at SG. The only player who will be missed this season in Orlando is Armstrong, and the Magic need Thomas a hell of a lot more than they need Armstrong. This trade works SORT OF for New York, too—Armstrong starts at PG, and hopefully ONE of those three marginal prospects (Hunter, Sasser, and Humphrey) turns out to be a decent player in a couple of years.

#13 Warriors trade A: Danny Fortson for Lavor Postell. Nobody—and I mean NOBODY—wants the terrible, overpaid Fortson. But he can get rebounds, and there will be plenty of offensive rebounds to be had on this terrible Knicks team. The Warriors would LOVE to make this deal.

#12 Warriors trade B: Danny Fortson and Bobby Sura for Charlie Ward. Sura, if healthy, would start at PG for New York—he’s an upgrade over both Ward and Howard Eisley, that’s for sure—but does this trade make the Knicks any better than they currently are? Not really.

#11 Rockets trade: Maurice Taylor and Jason Collier for Travis Knight. The Rockets must really regret signing Taylor to that huge multiyear deal already, and it’s only just begun. Knight’s contract expires in just two years, while Taylor’s contract goes on for at least four (and maybe even FIVE) more years. Houston’s payroll is well over $50 million, and it’s not getting any smaller anytime soon, since they have multiple marginal players signed to big longterm deals (e.g., Moochie Norris, Kelvin Cato, Taylor). This trade also frees up more minutes for Eddie Griffin and Kenny Thomas. Like all of the trades described so far, this doesn’t exactly make the Knicks into a championship contender. But Taylor would definitely play a lot of minutes in New York.

#10 Suns trade: Penny Hardaway and Randy Brown for Charlie Ward, Travis Knight, and Lavor Postell. Is Hardaway healthy? Well, he only missed two games last season, and he is battling neck-and-neck with Joe Johnson for the starting SG spot in Phoenix as we speak. Would Hardaway make the Knicks a better team? Well, if he’s healthy, he absolutely would—but how much better? Would they make the playoffs? No. But if you’re a season ticket holder, and you’re paying a TON OF MONEY for tickets, who would you rather watch, Charlie Ward or Penny Hardaway? The Suns, of course, would LOVE for someone to take Penny off their hands.

#9 Magic trade B: Darrell Armstrong for the rights to Milos Vujanic. The Magic would love to trim a bit more payroll, and they’d like to get their hands on Vujanic, a pretty interesting prospect (especially for a 2nd rounder). Armstrong would obviously start at PG for New York, and his hustle would make him a big hit among Knicks fans this year. And, again, trading Armstrong allows Grant Hill to move over to full-time PG.

#8 Raptors trade A: Jerome Williams for Lavor Postell. The Junkyard Dog’s contract goes on for another 4-5 years and is an abomination. Like Armstrong, this guy would be a big hit among Knicks fans this year. The Raptors would LOVE to trim payroll, and the J.Y.D.’s minutes could be filled by the likes of Michael Bradley, Nate Huffman, and Mamadou N’Dyaiae.

#7 Hawks trade B: DerMarr Johnson and Chris Crawford for Lavor Postell. I don’t understand why Henderson is making a ton of money for Atlanta, and I don’t understand why Crawford is making ANY money for ANYBODY. Crawford’s deal actually goes on for several more years, for whatever retarded reason. As previously mentioned, the Hawks want to win NOW (making Johnson expendable) and they want to trim payroll (making them both expendable). The Knicks are basically getting a former #6 overall pick for nothing here, so if he turns into something decent, GREAT.

#6 Cavs trade: Zydrunas Ilgauskus and Chris Mihm for Charlie Ward and Travis Knight. In case you’ve been on the moon over the past several months, the Cavs are dumping payroll like crazy. The contracts of Ward and Knight both go on for another two years, but that’s still one year sooner than Z’s contract is up. If the Cavs are going to dump this guy, NOW IS THE TIME, while he’s actually able to play (when he’s not drinking and driving, that is). Mihm is a recent lottery pick who simply cannot stay out of John Lucas’ doghouse. Now is as good a time as ever to admit that he’s a bust, right? Anyway, if Big Z can ever return to the form of several years ago—and I honestly can’t believe that guys like David Aldridge actually think that this is even a POSSIBILITY—the Knicks are suddenly looking at a pretty impressive frontcourt for an Eastern Conference team.

#5 Raptors trade B: Hakeem Olajuwon (his contract, anyway), Michael Bradley, and Chris Jefferies for Kurt Thomas. This move is obviously a rebuilding move. Bradley is actually a really interesting prospect who has gotten buried on a veteran-laden Toronto team, plus he’s from the Northeast (Boston, I believe). And Jefferies was a 1st round pick this season. I actually think Bradley will be a pretty decent NBA player, and Jefferies has a shot at being decent, too. Meanwhile, this trade is outstanding for the Raptors—they trim some payroll AND acquire the veteran PF they need to ensure a return to the postseason this year.

#4 Sonics trade: Jerome James for a 2003 2nd round pick. The Sonics are already regretting giving James all that money this offseason. Hell, it almost cost them Rashard Lewis. Getting rid of James frees up an additional $5 million in cap room next summer, which should be enough to make a legit run at… JASON KIDD? It could happen. Meanwhile, James—assuming that he gets in shape (and why should he, now that he’s made his millions?)—gives the Knicks a legit shot-blocker in the middle. And they are giving up nothing to get the guy.

#3 Bucks trade: Tim Thomas and Ervin Johnson for Charlie Ward and Travis Knight. Thomas’ contract is embarrassing, and the Bucks are desperately trying to trim payroll. I honestly don’t think the Bucks will miss this guy much, because I really do believe that if this guy were ever going to get really good, it would’ve happened 2-3 years ago. The Knicks kill two birds with one stone here—they acquire a relatively young SF with a lot of upside (although he’s not as young as you think, at 26 years old, and he’ll probably never come CLOSE to living up to his potential) AND a shot-blocking center. If Thomas ever amounts to anything, the Knicks have their SF for the next 5-6 years. Either way, the Bucks are admitting here that they blew it by giving Thomas all that money a couple of years back—better now than never!

#2 Grizzlies trade: Jason Williams and Lorenzen Wright for Charlie Ward, Frank Williams, and Lavor Postell. Williams was MADE for Madison Square Garden, and Wright gives the team a double-double threat inside (when he’s healthy, that is). The Knicks are getting two starters here for nothing—sure, they’re mediocre and overpaid starters, but still! At LEAST Williams will entertain the hell out of Knicks fans en route to a 25-win season! Jerry West not only manages to dump unwanted longterm contracts, he adds a decent PG prospect (Williams). I think you guys will be surprised at how little Memphis will miss either one of these guys. The next contract that’s GOTTA GO: Michael Dickerson.

AND THE WINNER IS…

#1 Bulls trade: Eddie Robinson and Marcus Fizer for Kurt Thomas. This is definitely the best move that New York can make. “E-Rob” will be given an opportunity from the get-go to live up to his contract and his potential (something that clearly isn’t going to happen in Chicago), and Fizer gets the chance to live up the hype that surrounds any top five overall draft pick. Remember, Fizer was the best player in college ball his last year at Iowa State. And remember the last time an undersized tweener former college superstar came to New York? His name: KURT THOMAS. That worked out pretty well for the Knicks. Maybe all Fizer needs is a chance to be a go-to guy, and that’s obviously not going to happen in Chicago. Meanwhile, Thomas gives Jerry Krause what he was looking for all summer long—a veteran playoff-tested big guy who can play lots of minutes until Tyson Chandler and Eddy Curry are ready for primetime. Great trade for both teams.


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## Petey (Aug 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>robyg1974</b>!
> #4 Sonics trade: Jerome James for a 2003 2nd round pick. The Sonics are already regretting giving James all that money this offseason. Hell, it almost cost them Rashard Lewis. Getting rid of James frees up an additional $5 million in cap room next summer, which should be enough to make a legit run at… JASON KIDD? It could happen. Meanwhile, James—assuming that he gets in shape (and why should he, now that he’s made his millions?)—gives the Knicks a legit shot-blocker in the middle. And they are giving up nothing to get the guy.


First of all, I don't think that trade would be valid, he was signed too recently to get traded...

Secondly, I would like to see them trade back for Camby... Won't that be funny? With the exception, it could be possible if you bundle it with Kurt Thomas and a first round pick (of course not this year, but down the line)... But if they did that, the Knicks would have to hire 2x or 3x a medical staff of anyone else in the league...

-Petey


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## robyg1974 (Jul 19, 2002)

*Re: Re: 18 ways for the Knicks to use their injury exception*



> Originally posted by <b>Petey</b>!
> 
> First of all, I don't think that trade [the trade with Seattle for Jerome James] would be valid, he was signed too recently to get traded...


Yeah, you're probably right. Good call. How about Calvin Booth for Lavor Postell and a 2nd round pick instead?



> Secondly, I would like to see them trade back for Camby... Won't that be funny? With the exception, it could be possible if you bundle it with Kurt Thomas and a first round pick (of course not this year, but down the line)... But if they did that, the Knicks would have to hire 2x or 3x a medical staff of anyone else in the league...
> 
> -Petey


You think that the Knicks would have to cough up a 1st round pick to get Camby back? Kiki would LOVE for somebody to take Camby off his hands. And New York can get a lot more for Kurt Thomas than just Marcus Camby. In other words, yeah, believe it or not, I considered a Camby-BACK-to-the-Knicks trade when I was compiling this list of possibilities, but trust me, these two teams are done dealing.

Who else? Let's hear some feedback, peoples! This is kind of a big deal. The Knicks are at a crossroads--either they OFFICIALLY signal that they are rebuilding by trading off Kurt Thomas for young unproven talent, or they take on even more mediocre veterans with unwanted multiyear contracts from teams desperately wanting to trim payroll.


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## Petey (Aug 23, 2002)

It's hard to rebuild in NY, and even harder when you NJ counterpart is tearing it up.

-Petey


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## RangerC (Sep 25, 2002)

A couple of these trades won't happen:

- #9 Magic trade B: Darrell Armstrong for the rights to Milos Vujanic. 

Knicks management are really high on Vujanic after his WC play and actually have him tenatively penciled in as their PG of the future. As bad a GM as Scott Layden is, I can't see him trading a 22 year old that the team likes for a 34 year old on his last legs. If the Knicks make a trade for Armstrong, they'll just use a future 2nd rounder.

- #2 Grizzlies trade: Jason Williams and Lorenzen Wright for Charlie Ward, Frank Williams, and Lavor Postell

Jerry West likes Jason Williams (he actually wanted Williams on the Lakers, and they're both from West Virginia). Williams will at least get a chance to shape up his game in the West era before he gets the boot. Now, if the Grizzlies could swap Michael Dickerson in for Williams, they'd definately make that trade (Giricek (who West apparently plans to feature prominently) and Battier make Dickerson completely obsolete).

All the rest of the trades I could theoretically see happening (not that I think they're positive for both teams (Krause giving up two good young players for a mediocre veteran is idiotic, but he did the exact same thing in the Rose trade), but I could see them going down). With Layden though, who knows.


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## robyg1974 (Jul 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>RangerC</b>!
> A couple of these trades won't happen:
> 
> - #9 Magic trade B: Darrell Armstrong for the rights to Milos Vujanic.
> ...


You may be right here. Actually, you ARE right. Substitute a 2nd rounder for Vujanic. Good call.



> - #2 Grizzlies trade: Jason Williams and Lorenzen Wright for Charlie Ward, Frank Williams, and Lavor Postell
> 
> Jerry West likes Jason Williams (he actually wanted Williams on the Lakers, and they're both from West Virginia). Williams will at least get a chance to shape up his game in the West era before he gets the boot. Now, if the Grizzlies could swap Michael Dickerson in for Williams, they'd definately make that trade (Giricek (who West apparently plans to feature prominently) and Battier make Dickerson completely obsolete).


Yeah, Jerry West would like to get rid of Michael Dickerson, too, that's for sure. But make no mistake, he wants to trade Jason Williams. Not because Williams is awful--because Williams has a pretty unbearable longterm contract. If the Grizz ever get good--and they WILL, if West sticks around for long--it won't be because of Jason Williams and Michael Dickerson and Lorenzen Wright and Stromile Swift. Which is why all four of those guys have GOT to GO. The Grizzlies have an enormous payroll this season (nearly $60 million), and they'll be lucky to win 30 ballgames. West has decided what the nucleus of this Grizzlies team is: Pau Gasol and Drew Gooden. He also really likes role players like Shane Battier, Gordon Giricek, and Earl Watson. Everybody else on this team with a multiyear deal has GOT to GO.



> All the rest of the trades I could theoretically see happening (not that I think they're positive for both teams (Krause giving up two good young players for a mediocre veteran is idiotic, but he did the exact same thing in the Rose trade), but I could see them going down). With Layden though, who knows.


Yeah, some of those are some bad trades, but Layden is the worst GM in NBA history, AND he's under a lot of pressure, which is obviously a pretty bad situation. However, you are obviously underestimating how badly Jerry Krause wants to dump Eddie Robinson's awful longterm contract on somebody. That's a great trade for Chicago, too!


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## spartanfan2003 (Jul 12, 2002)

I just wanna say that that Grizzlies trade is the dumbest trade "idea" I have ever heard. And I know that you just made it up. because -

Lorenzen Wright was 2nd in the legue in boards untill he got injured last season. He is our starting C. He is FROM MEMPHIS! When they announce, JWill, Battier, Gasol, Swift, Gooden, and Dickerson none of them get half the applause and screams that Wright gets. He is a real hometown hero. He went to U of Memphis. He grew up here. He symbolizes Memphis basketball. Besides, Jerry West likes him and we would get no C in return. Stop fantasising, our biggest need is a C. If Wright was traded with no C involved then our starting C would be Czezary Trybanski! Swift can not play C. He tried that last year and proved that he really does have hand of stone. Gasol, was already commented on by West. West said that Gasol would not, no matter what start at C. He might try out the C position when they are trying to give Swift playing time. And as for Goodne, he can't play C either. He will start or back up Battier at SF. 

Jason Williams is what sells the few tickets that are sold in Memphis.(My best friend is his next door neighborr btw ) If JWill was gone we would have nobody to sell tickets. It is not as easy to sell them as you think. Last year the Memphis Redbirds almost out sold the Grizzlies. And the Memphis Tigers DID! As said before, Jerry and Jason are old WV pals. He would never trade JWill, especially for 2 PGs, because we are set at PG. We have JWill, Knight, Gill, and Watson. Lavor Postell wouldn't even make our team. This is very lopsided. This has never been mention or rumored except now. This would benifit the Knicks and destroy the Grizz. This will NEVER happen! NEVER!

SL with trade - 

C - Trybanski 
PF - Gasol
SF - Gooden
SG - Dickerson
PG - Ward

back ups - Battier, Knight, Swift, Williams

SL without the trade -

C - Lorenzen Wright
PF - Gasol
SF - Gooden
SG - Dickerson
PG - Jason Williams

back ups - Battier, Knight, Swift, Person


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## kingofkings (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>robyg1974</b>!
> 
> #2 Grizzlies trade: Jason Williams and Lorenzen Wright for Charlie Ward, Frank Williams, and Lavor Postell. Williams was MADE for Madison Square Garden, and Wright gives the team a double-double threat inside (when he’s healthy, that is). The Knicks are getting two starters here for nothing—sure, they’re mediocre and overpaid starters, but still! At LEAST Williams will entertain the hell out of Knicks fans en route to a 25-win season! Jerry West not only manages to dump unwanted longterm contracts, he adds a decent PG prospect (Williams). I think you guys will be surprised at how little Memphis will miss either one of these guys. The next contract that’s GOTTA GO: Michael Dickerson.


This is a great post. I will comment on this trade though, which I think is VERY realistic and would not surprise me in the least if if goes down. Firstly, there is no more use for Lorenzen Wright. The big men core of the Grizzlies is practically full with Gasol, Gooden, Swift, Trybanski, Massenburg, etc. Wright will not get enough minutes here to satisfy his contract. This guy is not the shotblocker that a guy of his length and size should be.

Sure, he put up some numbers, when he was not injured last year, but the Grizzlies younger guys have gone past him. He likes to sit back and not contest many shots and just wait for the rebound. That is not good defensive work. I agree, that West would love to find a taker for him and trim payroll.He is part of the excess capacity of the Grizzlies big men that exists. Gasol, Swift Massenburg and Trybanski can fill the void at centre in Wright's departure. If the Grizzlies are relying on Wright to make a run at the playoffs they are kidding themselves. He has never ever cemented himself at the Clippers and the Hawks. But he can still fill the big man hole at the Knicks. He is a solid rebounder.

I dislike Jason Williams. I do not give a stuff what anyone says about him. Remember his statement last year when he said that he was not going to pass Pau Gasol the ball. Great leadership there, when he was the team captain.When things start to go wrong for this guy, he launches shots and that will never change. I believe that West would like to move him. Ward and Knight can easily fill the point guard slot for the Grizzlies, if that trade went through.

Sure he can pass and is flashy, but the Grizzlies big men need to develop and need to get the ball into places where they can be effective. Sure he got his assists last year, but is he the overall defender and leader that warrants his contract? If things start to go downhill for the Grizzlies, look for self preservation in Williams game. Is Williams the guy that you want to be the team leader and to lead the way. I would not want this guy, leading my team. That is what the point guard should do, lead. But, he would probably be a better fit on the Knicks, whereby he has more veterans around him to give him some support, in Houston, Sprewell and Thomas. He just might be able to provide the spark that seems to be missing on the Knicks roster.

Ward, would come off the bench for the Grizzlies and Knight would start. Knight, in my opinion is a more controlled and pass first point guard that the Grizzlies need. They already have their shooters in Battier, Giricek, Person, Dickerson, etc etc they need a guy to get them the ball. Knight is this kind of player. Ward, is the type of veteran leader that the Grizzlies need. He is a solid defensive point guard and half court offensive point guard.

The bottom line, is that if you are going to have guys on your roster, that eat up a large amount of salary cap, then they better make your team better. They also should be counted on, when the going gets tough and the pressure builds up. Are both Williams and Wright these kind of players? Not in my opinion.

Overall I would take this trade for the Knicks, fills both team needs. A spark from the point guard spot and a big guy who can rebound.Swift is having another huge game against the Magic with 10 rebounds in 20 minutes so far. Swift, Gooden and Gasol need the minutes to further their development and their career.

If Wright stays one of these guys will be buried or get significantly lower playing time, as it would not be feasible to bench Wright, due to his larger contract. It would be best to move him on to another team. I mean it probably would come down to Swift or Wright. I would rather keep Swift, as he has a bigger upside and greater development then Lorenzen Wright. He is also cheaper then Wright AND has the ability to be a superstar. The chance of this happening for Wright are zero!


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## spartanfan2003 (Jul 12, 2002)

Wright is their only C other than Trybanski. Trybanski started in an excebition game when Wright was resting and got only 4 points. He sux. This will never go down. Read all the community issues in my last post JWill and Wright are what sells this team. Ward actually sux. This is basically Jason Williams for Charlie Ward - OMG REAL UNFAIR. ESPECIALLY SCINE JWILL IS THE MOST ENTERTAINING NBA AND IS A WV BOY OF WEST'S! and Wright for Williams - LOL! LMFAO! LOL! I CANT STOP! LMFAO! whew! ok, sigh, LOL! LMFAO! LOL! hahahaahahahahahah! ok whatever. U get the point. this is like saying -

Vlade and Bibby for those guys that he just MADE UP! I MEAN HE HAD NO SOURCE! HE MADE UP THAT TRADE!

Keep it clean... Editted by Petey....


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## kingofkings (Jun 9, 2002)

*Hey...*

If you want both Wright and Williams on the Grizzlies you can have them. If you want the Grizzlies future to be set back, due to luxury tax concerns, because of these two guys, then so be it. I thought that that trade was fair. Remember most trades today are not based on equality. Most trades nowadays are based on luxury tax issues. If you really think that the Grizzlies future is based around both Wright and Williams, then the Grizzlies will never go far. The Grizzlies are built around Gasol, Gooden and Battier. Do you know that the Grizzlies are pretty close to the luxury tax??

The worst thing that an up and coming team needs is to overpay for average players, in Wright and Williams. Sure Wright had some huge games, but if he is not part of the core of the Grizzlies future, then no trade for him should just be overlooked. That is just common sense. Jerry West will no doubt look at moving these two guys. You talk about crowd favourites and I give you Pau Gasol,Drew Gooden and Shane Battier, the future of the Grizzlies.


That should be an issue, because a team far from making the playoffs has luxury tax problems. One way to reduce this trade is to make sacrifices and Wright, with his contract is one way of making that happen.Even when he was posting huge numbers, did that make the Grizzlies even more competitive? The Grizzlies were still getting killed inside.

Also, you asked me to read your other posts. No thanks, because the crap that you seem to post, will just be a waste of my time. Learn to spell first and then you just might get my attention.The problem with posters like you, is that you need to get aggressive with other posters just to make your point. This just reduces your credibility.

All I did was respond to a trade proposal that I thought was fair, given the development of the Grizzlies and also taking into account luxury tax concerns. Did you take any notice of the Glenn Robinson trade for a future first round pick?? The fact that Kukoc's contract ceases before Glenn Robinson's does?



You then proceeded to launch a tirade against my post, that just went nowhere. If you want to critique me, then please do so, without the need to attack or get personal. You still could not discredit my post, even with your waffle, swearing and personal attacks. This is one true sign of a lack of basketball knowledge and intelligence.If you want to shield yourself from intelligent discussion and analysis, by getting personal, etc then you will never get any respect in this forum. Remember no player in the league is untradeable in ANY given deal. Many people fail to understand this point!

Everyone can see from your baseless posts, that intelligence always wins in these kind of debates, against posters like yourself, that like confrontation and the need to flame.I have gone out on a limb to make YOU an example of BAD POSTING!! You still could not even debate me, on my post. What, do you not have enough basketball insight and knowledge, to give me an in depth critique and argument,without getting personal? It sure looks like that. See how stupid you look now??

If you want to call me a moron, just remember that in 7 weeks, I graduate from UNLV, with a degree in Accounting and Sports Management. Posters like you do nothing for this forum. They are just an irritant. Grow up!!


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## spartanfan2003 (Jul 12, 2002)

lol, ok buddy. You think I give a *** about spelling? You think I give a **** if u read my posts or not? I know that all my spelling is wrong. I just do it to go faster. And as for lashing out. I was just simply stating that you guys should shut up about that one trade because that would never happen. I am not stupid, I know all about our situation with the luxury tax. Have fun being a janator with your degree from big old UNLV. 


KingofKings :rocket:

Keep it clean... -Petey


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## spartanfan2003 (Jul 12, 2002)

Oh, shh............. here it comes. Everyone be quite so KingofKings can think of a comeback. He just loves putting me down. You can tell by the way I didn't intentionally diss his comment, just stood up for my team, and he lashed out at me. wow.


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## hogey11 (Aug 30, 2002)

Wow, way to set him in his place KoK.....

However, i agree with spartanfan that this trade has very little chance of ever going down. If the grizz were to do this, i would expect them to at least recieve kurt thomas, who at least plays hard d, something the grizz need. Trading Williams and Wright just doesnt make sense team-wise either. Yes, Jason williams said he wasnt goin to pass to pau gasol. But by the end of the season, he had no problem passing to the big man. Wright, as spartanfan said, is the fan favorite. Its kinda like if the grizz had picked up steve nash, they might have never left vancouver (i believe that he could have attracted THAT many fans). You just cant go and trade your fans' two favorite players for basically nothing except cap room cause your fans will plain out boycott you. simple as that. I think the grizz should let the team play for a few months, evaluate how 1) wright, 2) dickerson, and 3) williams are playing before they make any moves.

PS I am getting very impressed with both stromile swift and drew gooden. both are throwing up double doubles on a consistent basis. If swift can keep it up, he can 1) become very valuable trade asset, or 2)become a very valuable contributer to this team. I am hoping for the second one.


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## spartanfan2003 (Jul 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>hogey11</b>!
> Wow, way to set him in his place KoK.....
> 
> However, i agree with spartanfan that this trade has very little chance of ever going down. If the grizz were to do this, i would expect them to at least recieve kurt thomas, who at least plays hard d, something the grizz need. Trading Williams and Wright just doesnt make sense team-wise either. Yes, Jason williams said he wasnt goin to pass to pau gasol. But by the end of the season, he had no problem passing to the big man. Wright, as spartanfan said, is the fan favorite. Its kinda like if the grizz had picked up steve nash, they might have never left vancouver (i believe that he could have attracted THAT many fans). You just cant go and trade your fans' two favorite players for basically nothing except cap room cause your fans will plain out boycott you. simple as that. I think the grizz should let the team play for a few months, evaluate how 1) wright, 2) dickerson, and 3) williams are playing before they make any moves.
> ...


Wow, u put it perfect. It would have been a lot more fair if it were Thomas, Williams, and Postell. I dont know if that would work under cap though. Dont wanna check either. Still I dont think it would happen.


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## Petey (Aug 23, 2002)

Please keep it clean... I hate editting your masked words...

-Petey


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## robyg1974 (Jul 19, 2002)

Spartanfan2003:

I don't even know where to start. Take a look at the godawful contracts of guys like Jason Williams, Lorenzen Wright, and Michael Dickerson. These guys are getting paid a TON of money for THE NEXT 4-5 YEARS to do what? Lead the team to another 23-win season? These guys are part of the PROBLEM, not the SOLUTION, and Jerry West knows this.

Do you HONESTLY THINK that Jerry West gives a damn that Jason Williams is from West Virginia? Jerry West wants to WIN, and Jason Williams is A BIG LOSER. Please don't try to defend "J-Will" to us--anybody who doesn't know this guy is A BIG LOSER obviously just flat out doesn't get it. This guy is in Rod Strickland territory! For real!

It is true that West was intrigued by Williams when he was coming out of college. That's because the guy is a big time talent. Anybody can see that the dude is a big time talent. But that doesn't mean he's a good basketball player, that doesn't mean he's a leader, that doesn't mean he's a winner. He's just some dumb little punk from BFE with absolutely zero class who still has no clue what being a point guard is all about. A loser. West didn't know that about the guy 4-5 years ago, but he does now!

And Lorenzen Wright, please, LORENZEN WRIGHT? KingofKings' critique of this guy's game was right on the money. And talk about MONEY--this guy's contract is ridiculous!

And HOLD ON--you honestly think that, if this team trades away overpaid mediocrities like Jason Williams, Lorenzen Wright, and Michael Dickerson, that the handful of fans who are actually attending Memphis home games will stop coming to games? Are you KIDDING? I don't care how many people cheer for Wright when he steps out onto the floor--the Grizzlies have been HANDS DOWN the worst franchise in the NBA ever since their inception. Jerry West has come to town--JERRY WEST, THE GREAT JERRY WEST, WHAT A GODSEND!--to change all that. And the team is a mess financially--the payroll is close to $60 million (which IS in luxury tax territory, by the way, KingofKings). HOWEVER, the team has direction now in West, and a nice core of young guys: Pau Gasol, Drew Gooden, Shane Battier, Gordon Giricek, Stromile Swift, and Earl Watson. THAT is the foundation of the Grizzlies. Williams, Wright, and Dickerson are NOT part of this foundation--they gotta go! They have GOT TO GO! And they WILL go!

Do you honestly believe that an outstanding collection of young talent, coached by someone hand-picked by The Great Jerry West, a team with some excellent front office leadership (both from a fiscal responsibility standpoint AND from a talent evaluation standpoint), wouldn't draw more hands than a crappy Jason Williams- and Lorenzen Wright-led 23-win ballclub? HONESTLY? You say that Jason Williams and Lorenzen Wright put people in the seats, then, moments later, you tell us that the Memphis minor league baseball team drew more fans! HOW RETARDED IS THAT? If you're paying "J-Will" and Wright to put people in the seats, THEY OBVIOUSLY ARE NOT DOING A VERY GOOD JOB, are they?

Spartanfan2003, you have a lot of nerve flaming KingofKings around here. This guy is an INSTITUTION!

Thanks a whole lot for turning this post--which was SUPPOSED to be generate a discussion on what the Knicks should do with their newly granted injury trade exception--into a flaming war. I really appreciate it. I have no problem with KingofKings sticking up for himself and trying to put you in yr place. In fact, I didn't even know what was going on in this thread until I got a PM from KingofKings, in which he apologized to me for getting into it with you. That's because he's a class act and a real credit to this message board. Now, do you want to make positive contributions to this forum and to be respected, or do you want to just go around picking fights with people? Which is better?

OH YEAH, just so you know, Charlie Ward's contract expires in just two seasons. Frank Williams is on a supercheap rookie contract (late 1st rounders don't get a whole lot of money). And Lavor Postell is making the league minimum. If the Grizz keep J-Will and Wright for themselves, this is how much money they're going to be making in 2004-05: $14.1 MILLION. And that number only gets bigger in 2005-06. If the Grizz make this deal, this is how much Ward will be getting paid by the Grizz in 2004-05: NOTHING. Now THAT is why this trade makes sense for Memphis! A LOT of sense! If Frank Williams ever amounts to anything, great; if not, oh well! Do you REALLY not understand where I'm coming from here? STILL?


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## kingofkings (Jun 9, 2002)

*JERRY WEST WILL DO SOMETHING*

Do people think that Jerry West was brought into the Grizzlies to do nothing?? This guy has a reputation for winning and is respected around the league for this very fact. Do you think that he is happy about being so close to the luxury tax, because of contracts that were drawn up, before he was signed? He will do anything in his power to not only trim payroll, but to get rid of players who are not part of the Grizzlies future.

I mean how easy would it be, to do a deal with Scott Layden and try to rid yourself of some long term contracts?? He has the exception now and the team never ever plans to rebuild. They can't with the guys that they have under contract, who are untradeable!! They have an open cheque book to sign players, probably starters. 

The Grizzlies will make out like bandits in this trade. Wright and Williams are both mediocre basketball players. They have had limited success in their years in the NBA. I have some stories about Jason Williams at Florida that just might make your skin crawl, but I will keep them to myself.

Yeah, Williams and Wright put up numbers, but what did that do for the team?? Gasol and Battier also had great seasons and you would have thought, that with these 4 guys putting up numbers that the team would have been better?? The finger always gets pointed in these scenarios at the guys with the large contracts. The guys that are supposed to lead the team to victories. Funny that the team leaders and focus of the Grizzlies are Gasol, Gooden and Battier. Funny how these three rookies are immediately the keys to the Grizzlies franchise. No mention of Williams and Wright, the guys with huge contracts.

The Grizzlies need to do something and look to dump some unwanted contracts of players that are not the main core of their team and franchise. Remember in 1995, when the Raptors and the Grizzlies entered the league at the same time. It is common knowledge how far the Raptors have superseeded the Grizzlies. Making the playoffs three years ago. The Grizzlies have yet to show any improvement. And you expect Williams and Wright to lead the way?? They are not going to lead the Grizzlies anywhere.

The core of the Grizzlies is Gasol, Gooden, Battier, Giricek and Swift. These are the core of the Grizzlies.The Grizzlies will live and die by these guys in the end! Lorenzen Wright was drafted in 1996 and still has not proven a thing. How do the Hawks feel about trading both Quentin Richardson AND Chris Wilcox in that trade a few years ago. Remember the Hawks traded those two future first round picks to the Clippers for Wright.

Jason Williams sucks. Yeah, yeah he is so flashy but he cannot defend anyone. You really want him defending the likes of Francis, Marbury, Payton, Bibby, Parker, Miller, etc etc 4 times a year. He is the last guy I would want defending the point guards of the West. This is the area where the Grizzlies guards got killed last year and will so in the future.Especially early in the game, whereby this is the precise time, that most guards flourish.

Also, if you want your point guard to jack up alot of shots, then make darn sure he can at least hit 45% of his shots. Guys like Cassell, Marbury, Payton, etc are all shot happy, but at least they shoot at high percentages for shoot first point guards, unlike Jason Williams.Why jack up so many three pointers and long field goals when you are a career 29% three point shooter. Does the word selfishness mean anything to you?? Yeah, he had 8 assists per game, but Brevin Knight would have done the same. Knight is a better defensive guard then Jason Williams and a better half court distributor. He is more controlled and mature than Williams. 

He is a cancer. I already brought up that incident whereby he said that he was not going to pass Gasol the ball anymore. Real good leadership there. You say he has cleaned up his act?? Well, he will blow up again, when things do not go his way. It is just a matter of time, when something goes wrong with him.He is immature and this is reflected in his basketball game. He is all about streetball. Make the flashy pass, take the long three, mediocre defense.These are all individual plays and stats. They do nothing to help the team. Jerry West will not put up with this crap for too long and nor should he.

How happy are the Kings that they made out like bandits in that trade for Bibby?? How are the Grizzlies feeling that they could not have even received a future first round pick at least, in that trade. No way West, if he was in charge of that team, at that time, would have made that trade! That trade was one of the most lopsided trades in history. It is laughable!!

So I say, if you want both Jason Williams and Wright leading your team and taking minutes over younger guys on the Grizzlies, please have them. At least these mediocre players are not on my team!!They are both cap killers. Overpaying average guys like these just kills franchises in the short and long term. Why do you think that the Knicks are in such a mess, right now??

At the end of the day, Layden would pull of this trade, quickly. The Knicks obviously do not care about payroll, as Houston received a 100 million contract, when the Knicks were ALREADY over the luxury tax cap. He will get two starters, while the Grizzlies are free to build around their younger core. Without having to worry about the luxury tax in the near future!

Jerry West cares about winning and building franchises. He will hardly base his managerial decisions on putting bums on seats. He has explosive players like Gasol and Gooden already. Did bums on seats stop the Kings trading Williams for Bibby, when Williams was the fan favourite. NO!!. They needed to move forward and knew that to go to the next level, they needed to make that trade and deal Jason Williams. Surprise, they took the next step! 

Did bums on seats stop the Hawks trading Dominique Wilkins or the Rockets trading Hakeem Olajuwon, or the Knicks trading Patrick Ewing, or the Bulls trading Scottie Pippen, or the Wizards trading Webber, or the Warriors trading both Mullin and Tim Hardaway, or the Suns trading Barkely, or the Blazers trading Drexler?? Please, should I go on here??

If you want to talk about how good Jason Williams is, please do so, in terms of intangibles and not individual flashy play. Can he get the rebound, like Kidd and start the break?? Can he defend the key playmakers of other teams and actually put brakes on them when they get hot?? Can he hit the clutch shots when the team needs it? Can he score consistently when the team needs it?? Can he post up smaller guards?? Will he run though picks?? Is he the kind of guy, your other players want to look up to and respect?? Will he adequately defend the post when bigger guards are isolated on him? Then again, he will get his money regardless of whether he does these things or not.

If a point guard cannot do these things, necessary to win then they are not worth over 7 million per year and need to be moved on, as they are grossly overpaid. That is a fact whether you like it or not!


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## spartanfan2003 (Jul 12, 2002)

Ok, say what you want to. But I have the last word because it WILL NEVER HAPPEN. So there/ End of descusion. That's why I got so mad. Not because I felt like defending JWill and Wright, but because I just didnt want that to considered as a possible trade. It will never happen and you know it.


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## hogey11 (Aug 30, 2002)

wow, great arguments kingofkings and robyg...
I think there are only 2 things that need to be considered with this trade. 

First, we do not know how jason williams and lorenzon wright will play this year with a new team and a new GM. regardless of all the predicting in the world, these guys *MAY* actually find their niche and become contributors to this team, and not only on the stats sheet. I think to fairly justify this trade to themselves and the fans would be to allow these guys to play with the team for a period of time. If after a month into the season, we are still losing, Williams is still jacking up 30-footers, and Wright is still not contesting shots, then by all means, trade them. Trade them for anyone. trade them for Mikki moore. i couldnt care less. just give them a chance in the new situation. If they blow it, then they are as good as gone.
Secondly, we are ridding ourselves of two Cash-cows but we are losing a player that plays the one position we do not have enough of. We need a center. We are losing a center, and we are not getting a center in return. I dont know about you, but i would rather not have Trybaniski and Archibald, Two rookies, in charge of the center spot in Memphis. Sure, Gasol may be able to play it, but West has said that the only minutes that he will get there are to let swift get some minutes in at PF. If the grizzlies could add in another team and somehow get a center thrown in, i would pull the trigger.

So it comes down to if the players involved are playing like they have their whole careers , and the grizz can meet their needs, rather than extending them, then this trade *IS* a definate possiblity, in fact, it is a ablsolute possiblity. However, if we see new life from Williams and Wright, and cannot gain a center before the start of the season, then this trade will not happen.
thats the way i see it anyways.


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## hogey11 (Aug 30, 2002)

oh, and i was wondering, am i adding to this "flaming war"???
i was just reading robyg's post again and noticed what he said there. i hope my replies are in good taste and all. If i have been adding to it, i apologize. i was just hoping to spurn some discussion about it. Thank you.


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## kingofkings (Jun 9, 2002)

*Raptors trade...*

In respect to that Raptors trade of Jerome Williams for Postell, once again I am all for that trade, as a Raptor fan. One, because Williams does not do enough to make his 6 million salary seem reasonable. He is most effective coming off the bench. He has almost no offensive game, but is a good defender.

So, he is getting paid big dollars to provide energy?? Aren't all players supposed to bring energy to the game and dive for loose balls, etc?? If not, then they should, because that is what players are getting paid for. Williams, along with the point guard Alvin Williams, have really held the Raptors by the balls. Once again, they have almost no salary cap flexibility, because the Raptors overpaid for average players. They were too satisfied with how they finished 2 seasons ago and expected the team to just go forward. In turn they overpaid average players.

I have no doubt that the Raptors would love to dump Jerome Williams. One, because Michael Bradley is developing and has shown some great signs. He had 12 rebounds in the first quarter against the Bulls and this guy can score. He can hit the 15 footer and can score in the post. So, he already has more tools than Jerome Williams. McCoy is showing some signs, as is Huffman and N'Diaye.

Don't get me wrong I like The Junk Yard Dog, but at the end of the day, we need more out of him, in comparison to his over excessive salary. I mean, you are evidently going to have salary cap problems when you pay a guy that plays 21 minutes over 6 million per year.The team also had to give up on Keon Clark, as they would have gone over the luxury tax, had they signed him to a contract. Clark, at least gave the Raptors a defensive presence in the middle, allowing Davis to play his preferred and more natural power forward position. Clark had a solid season and deserved to stay with the Raptors.

How the Raptors are so close, if not over the luxury tax, just astounds me. With a team, with only one legitimate superstar can have such a high payroll, just is not logical. Note that also, Stewart's contract goes for one year less then Lamond Murray, so the cap situation has gotten worse, in the long run, through that trade.

But, would the Knicks want Jerome Williams. In the East, you can get away with 6"9 power forwards that are very skinny and light. They need rebounders and more defensive help. So yes, they would take him.

Sure the fans of the Raptors love Junk Yard Dog, but a guy only playing 25 minutes a game, with a limited offensive game, for over $ 6 million per year?? That is just not feasible and will just leave the Raptots hamstrung in the end. Sure he gives energy, but aren't all players supposed to give this?? His rebounding can be made up from Bradley, Murray, McCoy, etc. He is expendable and he needs to go, for the Raptors to free up some room in their payments to go forward in the long run.

The last thing the Raptors need, is to have to trade future first round picks, because they do not have the money to keep them on their roster. That is a distinct possibility. Jerome Williams, is not a necessity, just a luxury at the moment. And at over $6 million per year, that luxury needs to go, to a team that does not care about the salary cap and luxury tax!


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## Wilt_The_Stilt (Jun 7, 2002)

*What do you think of this trade?*

New York trades: 
PG Charlie Ward 
PF Clarence Weatherspoon 
C Travis Knight 

New York receives: 
SF Chris Mills 
SG Bob Sura 
PF Danny Fortson 

TRADE ACCEPTED

NY Lineup:
C-Kurt Thomas
PF-Danny Fortson
SF-Shandon Anderson (untill Spree comes back)
SG-Allan Houston
PG-Frank Williams

Why NY does it-They get Fortson to boost their frontcourt and get a backup SF for Shandon Anderson, and Sura can play PG.

GS Lineup:
C-Erick Dampier
PF-Antwan Jamison
SF-Mike Dunleavy
SG-Jason Richardson
PG-Gilbert Arenas

Why GS does it-They get rid of Fortson and Sura who don't want to be there, and get Weatherspoon who would be a willing backup unlike Fortson. They also get Knight to help their weak Center's. Ward would be a decent PG for them.


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## spartanfan2003 (Jul 12, 2002)

What about this idea? 

RealGM says it works under cap - 

New York trades: 
SF Latrell Sprewell 
SF Frank Williams 
SG Lavor Postell 

New York receives: 
SG Derek Anderson 
PG Antonio Daniels 
PF Zach Randolph 

Change in team outlook: -0.6 ppg, +2.1 rpg, and +2.1 apg. 

Portland trades: 
SG Derek Anderson 
PG Antonio Daniels 
PF Zach Randolph 

Portland receives: 
SF Latrell Sprewell 
PG Frank Williams 
SG Lavor Postell

Change in team outlook: +0.6 ppg, -2.1 rpg, and -2.1 apg. 

This helps Portland because, Zach Randolph is a good young talent who plays very well, bet he will never see any floor time behind Sheed, so they can afford to lose him. With the loss of Antonio Daniels, Portland gains Frank Williams. This gives them a sturdy back up behind Stoudamire to take Daniel's place. This also gives them a youth, because they just traded away Randolph. Anderson's loss can be made up by placing Spree at SG or Bonzi. Qyntel might also be able to put in minutes at SG too.

Line-ups after trade -

NYK - 
PG - Daniels/Ward
SG - Derek Anderson
SF - Allan Houston or Anderson/ whichever one can play SF
PF - Randolph (untill McDyess gets back)
C - Thomas

Portland -
PG - Stoudamire
SG - Spreewell
SF - Wells
PF - Wallace
C - Davis


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## robyg1974 (Jul 19, 2002)

NOTE TO EVERYBODY: Further down on this post, I discuss a radical concept--that this will be Shaq's last year in L.A., and that he could be wearing a Grizzlies uniform this time next season. First, I respond to Spartanfan2003, Wilt_the_Stilt, and Hogey11. So you may want to scroll down if you're not one of these three guys.

SPARTANFAN2003:

Nobody wants Latrell Sprewell at $12-$13 million this year and even more for the two years after that, not even Portland. The Trailblazers have a good thing going, they actually have good chemistry right now (they had good chemistry during the entire second half of the season last year, but no one around here seems to realize it), so obviously the last thing they need to do is trade for an aging Latrell Sprewell. I'm going to be surprised if the Knicks are able to unload Sprewell on anybody this year OR next year. When he is in the final year of his contract, he will become a somewhat valuable commodity, but only because he has an expiring contract. People don't seem to realize just how much Spree slipped last year. A few years back, when that underdog Knicks team made it all the way to the NBA Finals (only to get pounded by the Spurs), Latrell Sprewell was pretty much my favorite player in the league, and the Knicks were my favorite team. That team had a LOT of GUTS, and Spree was their leader. This is not the Spree of 1999 here, fellas. Nobody wants this guy. The Bucks had their choice of either Toni Kukoc--TONI KUKOC!--or Spree in exchange for The Big Dog, and they opted for Kukoc. That should pretty much tell you everything you need to know.

Also, Spartanfan2003, I understand that you don't think that Jason Williams and Lorenzen Wright and Michael Dickerson will get dumped over the next several months by Jerry West. And you are entitled to yr opinion, seriously, you really are. BUT, when West DOES dump these three guys, PROMISE ME that you will come onto this board and tell KingofKings and me that we aren't such idiots after all. Fair enough? When I make a bold statement in here, and I am wrong, I ALWAYS come in here and admit that I had no idea what I was talking about. Deal?

WILT_THE_STILT:

The Knicks can do better than Danny Fortson and they will. Nobody wants Fortson. The Warriors are going to have a hell of a time finding a taker for this guy. He really does suck.

HOGEY #11:

No, don't worry, you're not flaming, you're cool. There's nothing wrong with a debate--debates are good! I don't even think there's anything wrong with a heated debate. But there's no need to start getting personal, and you never got personal, so you're cool, seriously.

Anyway, the bottom line is, the Grizzlies are better off with Cezary Trybanski and Robert Archibald and Tony Massenburg playing center than they are with the mediocre Lorenzen Wright and his terrible longterm contract. Besides, why can't the Grizzlies try out a starting frontcourt of Drew Gooden-Pau Gasol-Stromile Swift? Isn't that what NEEDS to happen? Don't you want these guys getting as many minutes as possible? Now I don't know which one is the "center," but c'mon, that crap is overrated, anyway. Put those three guys out there on the floor for 35 minutes/game, all three of them, every single game, and I guarantee you that this team will win more ballgames than it ever did during the Williams-Dickerson-Wright Administration.

Anyway, when was the last time that Lorenzen Wright ever shut down the other team's center? So what if Stromile Swift gets scored on at will by the other team's center? Can he not probably put up the same or better numbers as Wright? For way WAY less money?

The main thing here is MONEY. The contracts of Williams, Dickerson, and Wright are simply not acceptable and are really crippling this team. THEY GOTTA GO. Period.

FOR EVERYBODY:

Ultimately, there are three ways to get better as a team: a) via the draft, b) via free agency, and c) via trade. At present, the only way this Grizzlies team can get better is via the draft. Why? Because a) they don't have the cap room to pursue a top free agent because of the terrible longterm contracts of mediocrities like Williams, Dickerson, and Wright, and b) the three most prized things to get via trade are expiring contracts (which free up cap room), cheap young players (they're young, they're cheap, they have upside), and draft picks. The Grizz cannot afford to trade their key young guys, nor can they afford to trade draft picks. And they don't have any expiring contracts. SO, the only way the Grizzlies can get better is via the draft, and that's not good enough. THAT is why this team needs to dump salary.

Listen up, Grizzlies fans. I'm going to tell you how this team can become a championship contender in just one year. ONE YEAR. I'm serious. Listen up. You dump Williams and Wright on New York somehow for Charlie Ward and Travis Knight (more players would have to get involved in order for the salaries to match up, and the fact that both J-Will and Dickerson are "base year compensation" players complicates matters; I have NO CLUE why the NBA has chosen to make their trade rules so damn byzantine, but that's another topic). Then you dump Dickerson on Dallas somehow for Avery Johnson.

The contracts of Ward, Knight, and Johnson ALL expire at the end of the 2003-04 season. So do the contracts of Wesley Person and Brevin Knight. All five contracts expire at the end of the 2003-04 season. What does this mean? This means that the Grizz will be able to bail out a team that wants to dump salary. Guess whose contract is going to hit $29.5 mil in 2004-05 and $32.4 mil in 2005-06? SHAQUILLE O'NEAL. As successful as the Lakers are, they aren't the Knicks or Mavs or Trailblazers. Their owner isn't interested in a $70+ million payroll, ESPECIALLY after he gets hammered with this luxury tax business. Believe it or not, the Lakers WILL shop Shaq next summer. And, if the Grizzlies acquire a bunch of expiring contracts, and are willing to cough up Stromile Swift (who is starting to live up to his potential this preseason), well, Jerry West is going to be able to put together a package that will make Jerry Buss VERY HAPPY.

Take a look at the total amount of money that Ward, Knight, Johnson, Person, and Knight make in the final year (2003-04) of their contracts: $29.1 MILLION. Think about that! That is a TON OF MONEY! This is how much Shaq makes in 2003-04: $26.5 MILLION. And, if the Lakers are dumping contracts, they may as well throw in the longterm contracts of Rick Fox ($4.5 mil in 2003-04) and Derek Fisher (way overpaid at $4.1 mil in 2003-04). Shaq + Fox + Fisher = $35.1 million. The five expiring salaries (Ward, Knight, Johnson, Person, and Knight) + Swift ($4.6 mil in 2003-04, the last year before he's a restricted free agent in the summer of 2004) = $33.7 million. If the Grizz have to toss in a future 1st round pick, fine, no big deal, you got it. The salaries add up. Deal.

Why would the Lakers do this? Well, two reasons: a) to dump Shaq's ridiculously bloated contract, and b) to free up cap room for the summer of 2004 so they can pursue... KEVIN GARNETT, who will be a free agent that summer, if I'm not mistaken. The Lakers will have Kobe Bryant and Kevin Garnett locked up for years, and these guys are still very VERY young. A new Lakers dynasty begins during the 2004-05 season, although the Lakers won't be very good during the 2003-04 season. If you're a Lakers fan, who do you want on yr team two years from now: Kobe and an aging Shaq, or Kobe and KEVIN GARNETT? Take a wild guess!

ANYWAY, even a perennial doormat like the Grizzlies become an instant championship contender with The Great Shaquille O'Neal. And his supporting cast totally rocks: Pau Gasol, Shane Battier, Rick Fox, Derek Fisher, Earl Watson, Gordon Giricek (who is looking very good this preseason, as well), and whoever they get with the Rockets' 1st round pick this year (should be a mid-lottery pick). Here are your 2003-04 Memphis Grizzlies:

PG Derek Fisher
SG Gordon Giricek
SF Rick Fox
PF Pau Gasol
C Shaquille O'Neal

Bench: Shane Battier, Earl Watson, 2003 1st round pick (preferably a big guy)

Absolutely positively one of the top five teams in the NBA!

ANYWAY, GRIZZLIES FANS, this is an example of the sort of thing that can happen when you acquire valuable assets. Believe it or not, in today's luxury tax-minded financial climate, an expiring contract is worth more than an overpaid mediocrity like Jason Williams with a 5 years left on his contract. Nick Anderson is a more valuable commodity than Jason Williams. THINK ABOUT THAT. I know it sounds ridiculous, but it's THE TRUTH. The Grizz have zero shot at trading for a star like Shaquille O'Neal if he becomes available next summer if they can only offer bloated longterm contracts. Why do you think the Knicks are unable to make a deal? Scott Layden has no problem accepting bloated contracts--but he has nothing to offer those teams willing to dump payroll. All he has are a bunch of even MORE overpaid longterm contracts. The only four contracts that anybody is interested in on the Knicks' roster are a) Charlie Ward (two years left), b) Travis Knight (two years left), c) Kurt Thomas (extremely productive player at a relatively low cost), and d) Frank Williams (incredibly cheap player with some upside).

So, fellas, I hope I have helped you out here a little bit. I know that everybody assumes that Shaq is a Laker for life, but I think this is his final season in L.A., whether they win another championship or not. His contract is simply on the verge of getting really outrageous. And Kevin Garnett WILL want to come to L.A., he WILL form the best 1-2 punch in the league with Kobe Bryant, they WILL begin winning championships again almost immediately. The Lakers WILL prefer a mid-20s Garnett at $15 million over a mid-30s Shaq at $30 million, NO QUESTION.

Oh yeah--and Jerry West WILL trade Jason Williams AND Lorenzen Wright AND Michael Dickerson as soon as he possibly can.


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## hogey11 (Aug 30, 2002)

robyg, your slowly convincing me more and more. However, the play of Giricek is really helping as well. I think that Wright is a good candidate for a trade if that means that Stro is kept in town, and he keeps playing like he has in the preseason. I think the biggest thing above all is that Jerry West is not going to make a decision like this without seeing how his team performs as is. He is not even expected to pull out a winning season in memphis so the pressure is not on to win as many games as possible at the start of the season. IF williams, wright, and dickerson keep doing what they've been doing for their careers, i would agree 100% that they will be moved if possible (Dickerson would actually increase his trade value by coming back in old form... i hope we can do it. maybe a possible 3-way with dallas involving nick vanexel and the knicks? just off the top of my head here...) 

I guess we'll just have to sit tight and see what happens....


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## Wilt_The_Stilt (Jun 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>robyg1974</b>!
> 
> WILT_THE_STILT:
> 
> ...


1st. You way underrate Fortson-he is one of the top rebounders in the game; the Knicks would take him. 

2nd. There is no way Shaq leaves LA-for several reasons:

1.Why would they want to give up the best player in the NBA for a bunch of scrubs???

2.Shaq has said he wants to stay with the Lakers and only the Lakers, and he only wants to be coached by PJ. 

3. KG would not come to the Lakers-the T-Wolves would offer him more money, and that is what he wants.

4.It is better to have a 400 lb Shaq than no Shaq at all...

5.If the Lakers did that trade, Fox would retire (he said he would if he couldn't play in LA) and Shaq would retire becuase he doesn't want to play for anyone else-I think Jerry West knows that-he wouldn't do it.

6. The only way Shaq would play in Memphis is if Kobe played there, and they hired PJ. There have been rumors of Kobe going to the grizz in FA-but he has also said he want's to be a Laker for life.

SO IT IS NOT GONNA HAPPEN.


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## Devestata (May 29, 2002)

Wilt makes one good point. I think the Knicks would take anyone right now, regardless of there salary. C'mon, Layden paid Allan Houston 100 million, what makes you think he wouldn't take on Fortson?

Wilt...one thing though. I wouldn't believe everything you hear about what the players say. Remember when MJ said he'd only play for PJ and the Bulls...look where he's at. I am not saying Shaq will be traded, but I'm just looking at past facts.


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## Genjuro (Jul 17, 2002)

*About the trades...*

ROBYG: I'm not very sure that those trades you have proposed can be done. I think that is not allowed to use two different exceptions for the same player.

For example, let's see the Croshere-Harrington trade. Croshere makes $6,960,000 this season. In order to trade him, you are adding the $2,700,000 that Harrington gets (assigned player exception) and the disabled player exception, that worths around $4,600,000. So you are adding two exceptions, assigned player and disabled, to trade for Croshere. I think this is not correct.

And many of your proposed trades don't follow the rule: 17, 16, 15, 14, 13, 12, 11, 10, 8, 7, 6 and 2.


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## runbmg (May 25, 2002)

*Who Cares about this trade!!*

 Edited By Shadows

This add's alot to the conversation. Keep your personal opinions on the city of Memphis to yourself

Shadows


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## hogey11 (Aug 30, 2002)

as i mentioned in another thread, why not? just because a team isnt as good as another doesnt mean that they cant be discussed. I mean seriously, would you rather have a good discussion about the grizzlies or yet another "Kings are gonna beat the lakers" or "Kobe is better than TMAC" thread? Instead of telling us how stupid our thread is, why dont you go make your own thread and see how many good discussions (by this i mean detailed and informed responses) you get. Thank you.


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## Petey (Aug 23, 2002)

*Re: Who Cares about this trade!!*



> Edited By Shadows
> 
> This add's alot to the conversation. Keep your personal opinions on the city of Memphis to yourself
> 
> Shadows


Very mature... no need for comments like this. In the future please don't post such type things...

-Petey


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## bmckay (Jul 15, 2002)

*Is this a joke?*

I'm not gonna read all the posts so i don't know exactly where this thread is going, but i'd like to respond to the original post.
Are these trades jokes? Who are you kidding throwing around lavar postell and charlie ward for good players like Tim Thomas and Ilgauskus. You gotta be kidding me. Postell is a decent and the only reason people know who he is is because he ran his mouth off about how he's as good as houston and sprewell and had one game where he scored 20 points (22 i think). Charlie Ward is a joke, as far as I'm concerned he is one of the worst starting point guards in the league and after all that anti-sematic crap he's an off the court problem as well. The Knicks couldn't give him away if they wanted to. The Knicks are pathetic and unless there's a miracle such as them winning the lottery (Patrick Ewing shadiness anyone?) they are going to be in the cellar for the next ten years (at least)


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## bmckay (Jul 15, 2002)

*holy christ*

Jesus Christ I just read some of the other threads. Trade Shaq?!?!?!?!?!?! Are you people absolutely insane? This is the most ridiculous thread I have ever read. Shaq may be the most dominating player for his time EVER. Trading him for that crap you listed is like trading a ferarri for a pinto. Good god the insanity.


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## MPK (Oct 20, 2002)

bmckay, from you previous comments i would be led to believe that you have little knowledge of the NBA salary cap. the craze right now in the nba is cap room, teams will trade superior players with long term contracts for lesser players with expiring or close to expiring contracts, like charlie ward. also check out postell's stats on espn.com, check his averages per 48 minutes. he is yooung and can score, i like him better than houston and spree cause of youth and money


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## bmckay (Jul 15, 2002)

I understand the NBA Salary cap just fine and I understand why many teams are trying to get rid of players with huge contracts. But those players teams are trying to get rid of are players that don't deserve their huge contracts. Shaq deserves every penny of his contract if not more. Even if they go over the luxury tax because of his salary he brings is much more than that to the Laker organization. Another point is that the teams that are dumping salaries are teams looking to rebuild. Incase you didn't know the Lakers are prime to win their fourth championship, not quite rebuilding. Trading Shaq is absolutely the dumbest idea on earth and any GM would laugh you out of the room if you so much as suggested it.


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## robyg1974 (Jul 19, 2002)

When I suggested that this could be Shaq's last year in L.A., do you think I thought that all you guys would be saying, "Yeah, you're right, good call, Roby G.!"? OF COURSE NOT! In fact, I haven't read a thing ANYWHERE suggesting that this could be Shaq's last year in L.A. But take a look at his contract sometime. It gets OUTRAGEOUS in the final couple of seasons. Jerry Buss isn't Mark Cuban. You do the math.

Plus, Shaq will get less and less reliable (physically) each year.

Is Shaq the best player in the league? Absolutely. But, from a GM's standpoint, he is NOT the most valuable player in the league--why? Because of his contract.

A team that wants to win, that wants to make a big statement to their fans and to the rest of the league, that is owned by somebody who is not afraid to take on a huge salary if it means competing for a championship, will be the team to make a pitch for Shaq. Memphis is a good candidate, in other words.

ANYWAY, fellas, when Shaq gets shopped around next summer, you just remember where you heard it first! On basketballboards.net! Okay?


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## bmckay (Jul 15, 2002)

And when nothing of the sort comes close to happening I'm also gonna remember who said it.


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## MPK (Oct 20, 2002)

bmckay, i wasnt talkin about the shaq deal, personally i agree with you about the shaq, i don't think he is going anywhere for a while. i was talkin about the knicks and postell


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## spartanfan2003 (Jul 12, 2002)

*Re: Who Cares about this trade!!*



> Originally posted by <b>runbmg</b>!
> Edited By Shadows
> 
> This add's alot to the conversation. Keep your personal opinions on the city of Memphis to yourself
> ...



WTF! DID HE DISRESPECT MY CITY WHILE I WAS GONE!?!?! MEMPHIS RULES! WHAT!?!?!? WHAT!?!?!?!?


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## spartanfan2003 (Jul 12, 2002)

By the way RobyG, deal.


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## JOHNNY_BRAVisimO (Jun 11, 2002)

no offense robyG, but i think you've been drinking too many 40oz. of caffiene! gets some sleep man  :sigh:


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## RangerC (Sep 25, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>robyg1974</b>!
> Yeah, Jerry West would like to get rid of Michael Dickerson, too, that's for sure. But make no mistake, he wants to trade Jason Williams. Not because Williams is awful--because Williams has a pretty unbearable longterm contract


Williams does have a pretty bad contract, but by itself it's really not that bad IF he plays with more consistancy. 6 years, 45 mil is not backbreaking on its own; in conjunction with Wright and Dickerson's contract it's an albatross, sure. With the dearth of good PG's in the L, Williams' contract is the sort of bad contract a team can live with if it's the only bad contract on the team. I think the only way Williams gets dealt (this year, at least) is if Williams is the lynchpin in some miracle trade that packages all their bad contracts for worthwhile players (that Knicks trade isn't it). 



> Originally posted by <b>robyg1974</b>!
> West has decided what the nucleus of this Grizzlies team is: Pau Gasol and Drew Gooden. He also really likes role players like Shane Battier, Gordon Giricek, and Earl Watson. Everybody else on this team with a multiyear deal has GOT to GO.


Interestingly enough, West doesn't seem to like Battier's game that much. He obliquely slammed him in an ESPN article, and Giricek and Gooden look to take most of his minutes this year. I agree that West will be cleaning house and only Gasol, Gooden, and possibly Giricek (the three 'G''s?) are truly safe.



> Originally posted by <b>robyg1974</b>!
> Yeah, some of those are some bad trades, but Layden is the worst GM in NBA history, AND he's under a lot of pressure, which is obviously a pretty bad situation. However, you are obviously underestimating how badly Jerry Krause wants to dump Eddie Robinson's awful longterm contract on somebody. That's a great trade for Chicago, too!


Once again, Robinson has a bad contract, but I don't think it's a backbreaker by itself (Jalen Rose's MAX deal is FAR worse in the long term). I just don't like the idea of trading two young players who might contribute something down the road for minimal cap relief. Robinson's contract is similar to Thomas'; it's just two years longer, so all the Bulls get out of the deal is two years of moderate cap relief. Thomas will take minutes from the developing players now (and it's not like he'll put the team in the playoff hunt) and he'll be gone in two years when the team might be decent. I could definately see Krause making this trade (it's the same sort of backward move he's been making the last few years) but I just don't think it's wise.


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## hogey11 (Aug 30, 2002)

> is if Williams is the lynchpin in some miracle trade that packages all their bad contracts for worthwhile players (that Knicks trade isn't it).


check out the trade i just posted in the NBA forum. called Att: few number problems with huge trade. tell me what you think.


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