# My opinion on Lakers now and in the future



## JeepLiberty03 (Dec 28, 2002)

It is time for all us Lakers fans to wake up and face the reality that this team isn't going to win the NBA Championship this year. They might not even get out of the first round. There are too many issues both on and off the court that is going to prevent this team from playing their best ball. Here are some of the many problems this team has.

1. Shaq is no longer at an all-star level of play, forget about MVP level. He is just a 7-foot dunker that can have solid games because of his size, and because there are no other centers in the league besides Yao, and we all saw how that match-up went the other night. He can't take a full 48 minute game over(not just a 3 minute spurt) anymore, because now he can't make many shots outside of 3 feet to go along with his poor foul shooting. I believe it is a combination of too much weight, not working hard enough to improve his all around game, and having no heart. However, that being said, it is hard to kill the guy because he did win 3 titles and dominate the league for us during most(not all) of that run. It is disappointing for us fans, especially when he doesn't take the heat well from Phil and the media for his play. I hope the Lakers don't extend him, because he doesn't deserve the money he is making now. And this is coming from a Shaq fan.

2. If Malone never got hurt, this team could still have a shot. In my opinion, he was the Lakers best all around player before he got hurt. He was a great team player, and I think his leadership/experience has really been missed. The Lakers have also missed his rebounding and passing. Hopefully he will return for at least the last 10 games of the year and help this team get out of the first round. The next problem is even though he won't play a full 82 games this season, can his body hold up next year, or is this injury the begining of more to come?

3. Kobe has to be traded. It seems so obvious to everyone except Laker management that he is gone after this season. If a trade can be made, I would do it. It could improve Shaq's game(although I doubt it now), and it should improve this team for next year. I know this trade wouldn't work cap wise, but I would take players like Wagner and Boozer from the Cavs for Kobe. I doubt you are going to get another All-Star like T-Mac or Iverson for him because of his legal problems, but a couple solid young starters that could play around Shaq for the next 2 years would due. It is better than getting nothing this summer when he walks. I also feel Kobe's play this year has dropped off too, but unlike Shaq his game should improve next year when he is healthy and done with his legal case. Also unlike Shaq, I don't think he can be the man on another team and lead them to the Championship like Shaq did. Kobe will probably go to the Spurs or take a big hit on salary and go to another title contender. This will just prove how much he hates Shaq(and maybe Phil now) I would love to see him go to the Clips, Suns or Hawks and try to win a Championship as the man.

3. Gary Payton has played much better without Kobe and Malone. Of course he has been shooting more, which keeps him happy. Based on how he played at the begining of the season, his play will get worse if Malone returns and everyone else stays healthy. He is stiil a upgrade from Fisher at the point, but can't D up the other West point guards, and his play will be worse on both ends of the court when he isn't getting his shots and running. If he doesn't lose another step next season on D, he probably will play better stat wise without Kobe. 

4. Defense. This team plays no D. Kobe and Shaq's D has gotten worse due to injuries and Shaq's lack of heart. The Glove is now just a mitten. Fisher and Fox were a half a step slow last year as starters, so they aren't getting better-but do try hard. Slava can't play 1 on 1 on the ball, as he is too out of control. Grant tries hard like Fish and Foxy, which is better than Slava, but still slower. George was supposed to be a defensive player, but seems to always pick up dumb fouls, and can't make the big stop.

5. Luke Walton needs to play more. Phil has to find ways to get him on the floor with the starters when he isn't going to get killed in the post on D. He is great passer who looks for Shaq and makes the offense run as the other 4 players on the court with him knows he is going to the pass the ball, so they have to move/cut without the ball.

6. The young players. Slava isn't a starter due to his foul trouble and lack of D. He will always be a bench player. Rush has shown he can play after a slow start. He will replace Kobe next year as the starter if the Lakers don't pick up another 2 guard. He is just an average player. George is a product of the fab 4. He like Rush is just average at best, and is under contract for 2 more years, I think. I think Walton will be better for this team/offense than Rush and George, but can he play NBA D so he can get 20+ minutes a game? Cook has played well, but I would have liked to see more of him at the 4 before he got hurt again. Over all this group needs the Fab 4 and Fab 3(next year) to be the starters, as they all seem to be just role players who would struggle with just Shaq. 

7. Phil Jackson must return if Kobe stays. He is the only coach for Kobe and Shaq. If Kobe leaves but Payton and Malone stay, Phil should stay too. If just Payton or Malone stay, than Phil would proably do better leaving, as the Lakers would be just competing to make the play-offs in the West, and Shaq wouldn't want to hear Phil speak the truth about his poor play. 

8. The Kings and T-Wolves are better than the Lakers, and they too are missing starters. The Spurs and Mavs would beat the Lakers with home court. If the Lakers don't finish in the top 4 out West, they are going home in the first round. This team can't win on the road, as they get blown out in most road losses and have no heart/desire to be the best. Now there is always the hope that the Lakers will be at 100%, and whoever they are playing have injuries to a star player like the Kings and Mavs had last year, but that is just hope.

The Phil Jackson Laker era as we knew it appears to be ending, and so has the current 3-Peat Championship era too.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

Not get out of the first round? 

Listen, if Shaq, Kobe, GP and Malone are healthy for the last 15 games...we should be the favorites to win the title. Don't forget how amazing this team was when everyone was out on the court.

As for the future, it all depends on what Kobe does.


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## KokoTheMonkey (Aug 4, 2003)

The Lakers can't be counted out if their players are healthy, which Damian basically noted. However, all of these injuries might take it's toll on the Lakers, because you never know how it will affect them in the long run.


The Lakers would be foolish to trade Kobe Bryant in the middle of the season unless they get some more HOF's in return. At the worst for the Lakers, they will lose in the Western Conference Finals. They have the experience, the talent, and the coach to go as far as anyone, so they definitely can't be counted out.


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## ShowTmeBALLA (Jul 18, 2003)

The Lakers future is one word and thats: Kobe. Jerry West saw it when he drafted the kid. He is going to be one of the greatest to ever lace up them sneaks and we havent even see him reach his prime yet. Shaq has two years left on his contract and will most likely not be given an extension. That would be foolish. Once he is gone the Lakers can then focus on surrounding Kobe with the players that compliment his game. I don't know how any Laker fan can go on to say that let Kobe leave or trade him. This is like saying trade Magic Johnson. The best thing that has happened to our franchise, and you want to get rid of it? At all costs you have to keep this guy. Who else can lead you back from being down 20 and give u the lead. You guys seem to have forgot the greatness of Kobe. And once he is proven innocent he is going to unleash the beast next year and we might see the best basketball played by an individual ever.


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## KokoTheMonkey (Aug 4, 2003)

> The best thing that has happened to our franchise, and you want to get rid of it?



Wow. The Lakers have had a great history, and Kobe Bryant is the best thing that has ever happened to them? Not Magic? Not Kareem? Not Wilt? Not Shaq? Not Phil? Not West?


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## ShowTmeBALLA (Jul 18, 2003)

I know the history, and I am saying this kid might be the greatest player to ever lace up the sneakers which would place him above the rest.


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## Pinball (Aug 3, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ShowTmeBALLA</b>!
> The Lakers future is one word and thats: Kobe. Jerry West saw it when he drafted the kid. He is going to be one of the greatest to ever lace up them sneaks and we havent even see him reach his prime yet. Shaq has two years left on his contract and will most likely not be given an extension. That would be foolish. Once he is gone the Lakers can then focus on surrounding Kobe with the players that compliment his game. I don't know how any Laker fan can go on to say that let Kobe leave or trade him. This is like saying trade Magic Johnson. The best thing that has happened to our franchise, and you want to get rid of it? At all costs you have to keep this guy. Who else can lead you back from being down 20 and give u the lead. You guys seem to have forgot the greatness of Kobe. And once he is proven innocent he is going to unleash the beast next year and we might see the best basketball played by an individual ever.


If Kobe leaves it's not because the Lakers don't want him back.


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## el_Diablo (May 15, 2003)

if the lakers can get healthy a few weeks before the playoffs start, they are still at least one of the favourites to win it all, if not the favourite. I'm thinking these injuries, IF they go away early enough, are a blessing in disguise, because your bench players have gotten confidence with the chance to show that they can play.

of course they aren't good enough without the stars, but I do think they're better than expected...


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

If the Fab 4 are 100% healthy heading into the playoffs they will win the championship, period.


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## Jaywalk (Feb 19, 2004)

Hitting the panic button now seems un-needed, trading Kobe would be doing just that. What do you think Kobes trade value is right now? Especially considering that if teams wanted to make a run at him, they can do it in the offseason. However, if the Lakers get healthy and make a run at the title, the result will ultimately determine his outcome IMO. 

Winning cures all, I think Kobe would sign back if they won it all, all would be right. Malone would probably retire, Payton would play out his contract, and Shaq would have another notch of satisfaction under his belt. That leaves a 25 year old Kobe with a whole career ahead of him. Since the other three have proved what they needed to, that leaves Kobe as the Lakers main focus for the future. He'll be the only one left with any fire in him. 

If they lose, then I think that would be Kobes sign to leave. This was suppose to be the so-called 70 win greatest team ever assembled, and if they dont win the title, thats the last straw for him. Time to go another direction. 

One things for sure though, no moves for the rest of the season. Get everyone healthy, get on the same page and make a run at it. Thats the most logical solution. Lakers arent the type of team to hit the panic button, they let things ride out.


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## Tragedy (Dec 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ShowTmeBALLA</b>!
> I know the history, and I am saying this kid might be the greatest player to ever lace up the sneakers which would place him above the rest.



i always heard cali has good green... but i didnt know it was THAT good


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

> Malone would probably retire


Malone has expressed on several occassions his interest to not only play with the Lakers after this season, whether the Lakers win or lose the title this year, but also for another season after that. So Malone basically wants to play until he's 43 and then retire, or two more seasons after this one in other words.


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

I concede that the Lakers are struggling, and things doné look exactly peachy...

Needless to say, Malone´s injury crippled the chance we could get #1 in the West, which i believe would be a must to win the ring. Without home court advantage thorought the playoffs, it will be extremely difficult to get past teams like Minnesotta and Sacramento, who are playing great eventhough getting hit by injuries to key players themselves.

On the other hand, IF Malone gets back in time, AND the rest of the team remains healthy :gopray: and motivated, the Lakers can´t be count off. Winning a best-of-seven series against this guys will be no walk on the park...

So, it´s too early to throw th towell. 

About our future: Kobe won´t get traded. Buss said so. Maybe he leaves, maybe not, maybe he doens´t play in the near future (court problems), who knows?
But one thing appears certain: the Lakers won´t trade Kobe Bryant.


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## jstempi (Jul 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>JeepLiberty03</b>!
> 8. The Kings and T-Wolves are better than the Lakers, and they too are missing starters. The Spurs and Mavs would beat the Lakers with home court. If the Lakers don't finish in the top 4 out West, they are going home in the first round. This team can't win on the road, as they get blown out in most road losses and have no heart/desire to be the best. Now there is always the hope that the Lakers will be at 100%, and whoever they are playing have injuries to a star player like the Kings and Mavs had last year, but that is just hope.


You make a lot of good points and I agree with you on several of them. However, I agree with the other posters that the Lakers dont need to hit the panic button yet, and even if they did it would not help. I do want to dispute one of your points (above) though because I hear a lot of other people saying this and I thought it should be discussed. 

Without Malone the current Wolves and Kings will likely beat the Lakers; however, I'm not convinced that when the Wolves and Kings injured players return they will be able to beat a Laker team with a healthy Malone. People say those teams are missing stars too, but Wally is notorious for falling apart against the Lakers and was outplayed by Devean George in the series last year...and Kandiman, he may help a little but not much, Kandi dissappears from games when he's not given the ball constantly and always gets into foul trouble early against Shaq. Dont get me wrong, if both teams are healthy a Wolves-Lakers series will be good...I'm just saying that people are overstating the help these guys will give the Wolves when they get back. 

Also, i have my reservations as to how much of a positive Webber will be when he gets back. Injuries like his dont just get better 100%, they can heal but big men who get these kinds of injuries are never the same. Webber had a lateral meniscus tear and many of these types of injuries can heal on their own but since the Kings organization came straight out and said surgery was needed I think it was more serious to the center of the meniscus (as opposeds to the outer edge) which does not heal well. You might say he's been out forever to give it time to heal well, but the likeliness is that this injury will haunt him the rest of his career. Sure Malone's knee sprain will bother/hinder him the rest of the year too but I think Malone will have a much greater impact than Webber will have. And remember, the Kings couldn't blow out a Shaqless, Maloneless, Kobeless Laker team earlier this year so I think people are overestimating what Webber will do for the Kings as opposed to the Lakers getting all their guys healthy.


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## beb0p (Jul 15, 2002)

*Re: Re: My opinion on Lakers now and in the future*



> Originally posted by <b>jstempi</b>!
> 
> Also, i have my reservations as to how much of a positive Webber will be when he gets back. Injuries like his dont just get better 100%, they can heal but big men who get these kinds of injuries are never the same. Webber had a lateral meniscus tear and many of these types of injuries can heal on their own but since the Kings organization came straight out and said surgery was needed I think it was more serious to the center of the meniscus (as opposeds to the outer edge) which does not heal well. You might say he's been out forever to give it time to heal well, but the likeliness is that this injury will haunt him the rest of his career. Sure Malone's knee sprain will bother/hinder him the rest of the year too but I think Malone will have a much greater impact than Webber will have. And remember, the Kings couldn't blow out a Shaqless, Maloneless, Kobeless Laker team earlier this year so I think people are overestimating what Webber will do for the Kings as opposed to the Lakers getting all their guys healthy.


You actually have reservation over a player with menicus injury (Webber) over a player with a torn ligament (Malone)? Curious. No player has ever been the same after a serious knee injury. That goes for Webber and Malone. But in C-Web's case, he hasn't been the same in quite a while now. There is no reason to think this injury will affect him any more than his previous ones.

As for the Lakers, they have chosen to build for the present. So my two cents say they shouldn't chicken out mid-way. You don't trade away Kobe Bryant unless he tells you in your face that he wants out. Period. 

For the season though, the Lakers' fortune now rides on Malone's remaining three ligaments on his right knee. If you ask me, I think it's absolutely mental for anyone to play with a torn MCL after a few months rehab with no surgery to reconstruct the damage. However, if anyone can pull it off, it's Malone. But he is playing with fire here, and being a former ligament victim, I know full well what that missing piece of flesh can do to a person's mobility. I think Karl is in for a big surprise when he takes the court again.


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

> I think Karl is in for a big surprise when he takes the court again.


I think what you meant to say was "I *hope* Karl is in for a big surprise when he takes the court again". And unfortunately for you, the good news about Malone is that he's officially been cleared to do Stairmaster reps and will be cleared to play barring a freak accident in just 3 weeks, which gives him a little over a month of preparation with the team for the playoffs. 

Though when Malone's posting double doubles every night, I'm sure you won't exactly be here gloating about your incredible foresight. :laugh:

Hey, weren't you the same person that said Kobe's lacerated finger probably caused nerve damage that likely would affect his shooting touch? Anybody here know how far above 50% Kobe has been shooting from the floor since returning from the laceration? :laugh:


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

> There is no reason to think this injury will affect him any more than his previous ones.


Well sure, if you were to ignore the fact that the only other player to go through a similar injury (Allen Houston) in the history of the NBA is currently sitting out games because of knee pain. 

And not to mention it's medical fact based that Webber's injury was very very serious (not the tear he suffered last May, this is another part of his knee) and career threatening.

But sure, I bet "Iron Man" Webber will recover in no time!!!


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## beb0p (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>EHL</b>!
> 
> Though when Malone's posting double doubles every night, I'm sure you won't exactly be here gloating about your incredible foresight. :laugh:
> 
> Hey, weren't you the same person that said Kobe's lacerated finger probably caused nerve damage that likely would affect his shooting touch? Anybody here know how far above 50% Kobe has been shooting from the floor since returning from the laceration? :laugh:


I said the same thing last year when Webber came back from a ligament sprain with only two months off. It's not about the Lakers or Kings, EHL; it's about common sense; something you seem to lack.

Malone will get a dou-dou with broken legs and arms tied together, but you'd be a ninny to believe he'll return the same as pre-injury. Even Webber, almost 10 yrs younger than Karl and in just as good shape, was not the same after he returned and C-Web's was only a sprain.

I give you props for trying, but you don't remember what I said and that's probably why you still haven't learned. I did not say Kobe's injury will cause nerve damage which will lead to whatever. What I said was running body parts through a glass is not uncommon and in some cases can damage the nerve, which would be a long-term issue.


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

> Even Webber, almost 10 yrs younger than Karl and in just as good shape


Do you watch games or do you listen to them on cassette? When has Webber ever in his career been in as good a shape as Karl Malone?

Lord. 



> Malone will get a dou-dou with broken legs and arms tied together, but you'd be a ninny to believe he'll return the same as pre-injury. Even Webber, almost 10 yrs younger than Karl and in just as good shape, was not the same after he returned and C-Web's was only a sprain.


Please tell me what type of ligament sprain Webber suffered and then tell me what type of ligament sprain Malone suffered and then come back and tell me Malone’s was worse. A little research never hurts.


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## beb0p (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>EHL</b>!
> 
> 
> Do you watch games or do you listen to them on cassette? When has Webber ever in his career been in as good a shape as Karl Malone?
> ...


Listen to games on Cassette? Who has games on cassette? EHL, next time you try to be humorous, give us a warning would ya?! As for you second question, I don't think it actually warrants an answer.




> Originally posted by <b>EHL</b>!
> 
> Please tell me what type of ligament sprain Webber suffered and then tell me what type of ligament sprain Malone suffered and then come back and tell me Malone’s was worse. A little research never hurts.


Gladly. First of all, what Malone has is not a sprain. It is a torn ligament which is worst than a sprain. The injuries that Webber had were an ankle sprain and a bone bruise, both on his left leg. Malone's is worst. Below, you'll find an article where Karl admitt to having a torn MCL and a page detailing C-Web's injuries with the Kings. 


http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/040124/6/wgnp.html
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/teams/kings/injuries.html


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## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

Malone does have a tear... they said he might not even return this season...


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## jstempi (Jul 23, 2003)

*Re: Re: Re: My opinion on Lakers now and in the future*



> Originally posted by <b>beb0p</b>!
> 
> 
> You actually have reservation over a player with menicus injury (Webber) over a player with a torn ligament (Malone)? Curious. No player has ever been the same after a serious knee injury. That goes for Webber and Malone. But in C-Web's case, he hasn't been the same in quite a while now. There is no reason to think this injury will affect him any more than his previous ones.


The point I was making, that you appear to have missed, is that I dont believe inserting a slower and more cautious Webber and taking away minutes from the Miller Vlade combo will be a plus for this team. The lakers inserting a slower and more cautious malone will be a plus since malone will still be better than any backuo the lakers have. I thinnk this is rather obvious and dont see why you thought it curious. Especially since a bad meniscus injury is way more career threatening than a torn ligament. Also, they have both been cleared by doctors so I'm sure they are okay, but a meniscus problem has a greater chance to have perpetual effects.


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## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

> The point I was making, that you appear to have missed, is that I dont believe inserting a slower and more cautious Webber and taking away minutes from the Miller Vlade combo will be a plus for this team. The lakers inserting a slower and more cautious malone will be a plus since malone will still be better than any backuo the lakers have. I thinnk this is rather obvious and dont see why you thought it curious. Especially since a bad meniscus injury is way more career threatening than a torn ligament. Also, they have both been cleared by doctors so I'm sure they are okay, but a meniscus problem has a greater chance to have perpetual effects.


I think we can all agree that Webber with one leg is faster than Vlade :laugh:


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## beb0p (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>SacKings384</b>!
> 
> 
> I think we can all agree that Webber with one leg is faster than Vlade :laugh:


Ditto. I can't believe there is still ignoramus who questions the benifit of Webber's return. As Vlade Divac put it so elegantly, "It's so dumb." I, on the other hand, think they just need better information, so I feel incline to supply the two articles below to any poor souls who are severed from the everyday sports community. First article is written by Marc Stein, second by Jack Ramsay. All on the state of the Kings when Webber returns.


http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=stein_marc&id=1723508

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/archive?columnist=ramsay_dr._jack&root=nba


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>EHL</b>!
> Anybody here know how far above 50% Kobe has been shooting from the floor since returning from the laceration? :laugh:


Since returning from his lacerated finger injury, Kobe has been shooting 59.4% (38-64) from the floor.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

If Karl's injury is worse than Webber's...how come Webber was injured for something like 8 months?


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

dp


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>beb0p</b>!
> 
> Listen to games on Cassette? Who has games on cassette? EHL, next time you try to be humorous, give us a warning would ya?!


Haha, fair enough. 



> As for you second question, I don't think it actually warrants an answer.


Why not? I think it's pretty obvious that even now, Karl Malone is in better shape than Chris Webber has ever been in his career. Even if you don't agree with that statement, I'd say it's still pretty obvious that Malone is going to come back from his MCL tear much more quickly than Webber will from his knee injury, which was *much* more serious than Malone's tear, which doesn't even require surgery. Webber hasn't played a single NBA game in like, what, 9-10 months? Malone played 24 games straight for nearly two months until last December when he went down with the sprain (that turned into a tear later). At worst, Malone will have not played a single NBA game for 3 months when he comes back in mid March, and he has been much more mobile in those 3 months than at any point during Webber's 9-10 month recovery period.



> Gladly. First of all, what Malone has is not a sprain. It is a torn ligament which is worst than a sprain. The injuries that Webber had were an ankle sprain and a bone bruise, both on his left leg. Malone's is worst. Below, you'll find an article where Karl admitt to having a torn MCL and a page detailing C-Web's injuries with the Kings.
> 
> 
> http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/040124/6/wgnp.html
> http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/teams/kings/injuries.html


Um, like I said before, research. Where is this supposed ligament damage Webber went through in the 2002-2003 season? Is a bone injury the same thing? No, it is not. Webber didn’t go through the same thing or even something similar as far as I can tell.


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## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

Correct me if im wrong, but what i beleive BeBop is trying to say, is that, Webber had a knee injury(the bone bruise on the knee), came back, and he was never the same again, Malone has a WORSE injury (the tear) than Webber had so hes saying hell never be the same again, however Webbers NEW injury (the torn miniscus) with surgery usually only warrants 3-4 weeks of rehab, but they had to drill holes in Webber knee, which lengthened the process... HOWEVER, Malone opted to not get the surgery (reasons unknown) because originally he had a sprain and then Malone was Malone and when he was working out to hard eventually tore it... But i beleive BeBop is trying to say that dont expect Malone to be the old Malone because Webber went through something lighter and he was younger and he was never the same (this does not mean i agree or disagree with this statement im just meerly interpreting it)


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>SacKings384</b>!
> Correct me if im wrong, but what i beleive BeBop is trying to say, is that, Webber had a knee injury(the bone bruise on the knee), came back, and he was never the same again, Malone has a WORSE injury (the tear) than Webber had so hes saying hell never be the same again, however Webbers NEW injury (the torn miniscus) with surgery usually only warrants 3-4 weeks of rehab, but they had to drill holes in Webber knee, which lengthened the process... HOWEVER, Malone opted to not get the surgery (reasons unknown) because originally he had a sprain and then Malone was Malone and when he was working out to hard eventually tore it... But i beleive BeBop is trying to say that dont expect Malone to be the old Malone because Webber went through something lighter and he was younger and he was never the same (this does not mean i agree or disagree with this statement im just meerly interpreting it)


Generally, I think that's what bebop is saying. However, the flaw in that argument is that he's comparing Malone's MCL tear to some bone brush Webber suffered in the 2002-2003 season, which according to my research never affected his left knee ligament. 

And while an MCL tear is a very serious injury, the general consensus among medicine is that if it heals correctly, your knee's movement should be capable of exactly the same type of movement before the injury. This is why the Lakers organization is being so cautious, they want Malone's tear to heal 100% correctly, not 90%. If the Lakers organization thought that that was not possible this season, Malone would have already had surgery to repair the tear. But since two of the best ligament doctors in the country believed Malone was healthy and well conditioned enough to weather the storm and come back strong this season, Malone has been forced to sit out an extra 6-8 weeks.


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## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

Ive never heard of anyone trying to heal a tear like that naturally, especially not in sports, whats the reason for that?


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>SacKings384</b>!
> Ive never heard of anyone trying to heal a tear like that naturally, especially not in sports, whats the reason for that?


Technically speaking, a sprained ligament is actually a tear, just a much lower grade one than the generally accepted medical term for "tear". There are 3 levels of ligament tearing, from what I remember, low grade to severe (terminology here may be slightly off). Malone's tear isn't serious enough to require surgery, so it's certainly not a severe tear. So yes, you can heal tears naturally, it just depends on how serious the tear is. 

I tore my meniscus two years ago, but because it wasn't a serious enough meniscus tear, I was back playing well on the basketball court just 4-5 weeks later, 100%.


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## jstempi (Jul 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>beb0p</b>!
> 
> 
> Ditto. I can't believe there is still ignoramus who questions the benifit of Webber's return. As Vlade Divac put it so elegantly, "It's so dumb." I, on the other hand, think they just need better information, so I feel incline to supply the two articles below to any poor souls who are severed from the everyday sports community. First article is written by Marc Stein, second by Jack Ramsay. All on the state of the Kings when Webber returns.
> ...


Someone needs to learn how to read. The first article and Vlade's comments were in reference to those who say Webber's comeback will mess up the rotation. This is not what i am saying. And Ramsey's article about the King's poor defense doesnt say that Webber's comeback will solve it, all it says is that Vlade's D has gotten poor and that they miss Keon's shot blocking. If you think Webber is going to be better that Vlade defensively right when he gets back then I say good luck to you. We'll just disagree, but dont pretend the writers of the articles you quoted agreed with you...because they dont.

All I am saying I dont think his comeback will be a huge plus to the team. It may be a small plus in getting Vlade or Miller some rest, but certainly not as much of a plus as even a slower Malone coming back to fill the vacant Laker PF spot.


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## beb0p (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>EHL</b>!
> 
> 
> Haha, fair enough.
> ...


1. Malone's has chosen to postone surgery to try to come back this season. It does NOT mean his injury does not need surgery. It most certainly does.
2. It's not at all obvious when and if Malone will be back. He is NOT back yet, so any statement about Karl coming back is premature. 
3. Question: in what way does Malone's pre-injury mobility gives you any clue as to how he'll be when he comes back with a torn MCL still in his knee?




> Originally posted by <b>EHL</b>!
> Um, like I said before, research. Where is this supposed ligament damage Webber went through in the 2002-2003 season? Is a bone injury the same thing? No, it is not. Webber didn’t go through the same thing or even something similar as far as I can tell.


Hommie, do I have to spell everything out? A bone bruise in the knee encompasses damage to the ligament and meniscus almost all of the time! Think about it, how can the ligaments and meniscus stay perfectly unscratched after a trauma that was sever enough to cause a micro fracture (aka bone bruise) in the knee? If you don't believe me, just check out the below statement using the link provided; or go to any knee injury discussion board and read stories about knee-bruise victims who luckily suffered only minor sprain to the ligaments and those unlucky ones who had to perform reconstruction surgeries. 

"It is now verified that bone bruising is a common injury accompanying meniscal, ligamentous, and other injuries" 
http://www.centerimt.com/e-journal/articles/ej00036.htm

You think a professional athlete like Webber just suddenly blew his meniscus for no apparent reason? His micro fracture laid the ground for his meniscus tear. 

Research. Or in some cases, better research.


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>beb0p</b>!
> 1. Malone's has chosen to postone surgery to try to come back this season. It does NOT mean his injury does not need surgery. It most certainly does.


Please provide any evidence whatsoever to back up this claim. Malone nor anyone associated with the Laker organization has said his tear will require surgery. In fact, two of the best knee doctors in the country examined his tear and both said it did not require surgery.

Now, if you're just wildly speculating that Malone will retear or tear some other part of his knee during the rest of the regular season and the playoffs, then that's something entirely different. I certainly wouldn't be surprised if he had surgery in the summer from the wear and tear of the rest of the regular season and playoffs. 



> 2. It's not at all obvious when and if Malone will be back. He is NOT back yet, so any statement about Karl coming back is premature.


No, not really. Just today he was cleared to do straight away running, and said that he could do more, but that he's being extra cautious. Face it, the problem has been diagnosed and he will be back barring catastrophic circumstances in mid March, maybe earlier (according to Malone). 



> 3. Question: in what way does Malone's pre-injury mobility gives you any clue as to how he'll be when he comes back with a torn MCL still in his knee?


When did I say his pre-injury mobility has any bearing on his return from his MCL tear? I was comparing Malone's conditioning and state of mind compared to Webber's. 



> Hommie, do I have to spell everything out? A bone bruise in the knee encompasses damage to the ligament and meniscus almost all of the time! Think about it, how can the ligaments and meniscus stay perfectly unscratched after a trauma that was sever enough to cause a micro fracture (aka bone bruise) in the knee? If you don't believe me, just check out the below statement using the link provided; or go to any knee injury discussion board and read stories about knee-bruise victims who luckily suffered only minor sprain to the ligaments and those unlucky ones who had to perform reconstruction surgeries.
> 
> "It is now verified that bone bruising is a common injury accompanying meniscal, ligamentous, and other injuries"
> http://www.centerimt.com/e-journal/articles/ej00036.htm
> ...


Or in some other cases, research that is actually worth more than just arm-chair speculation. Did anyone in the Kings organization say that Webber suffered significant ligament damage of any kind? If not, well, you've struck out again I'm afraid.


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## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

> Someone needs to learn how to read. The first article and Vlade's comments were in reference to those who say Webber's comeback will mess up the rotation. This is not what i am saying. And Ramsey's article about the King's poor defense doesnt say that Webber's comeback will solve it, all it says is that Vlade's D has gotten poor and that they miss Keon's shot blocking. If you think Webber is going to be better that Vlade defensively right when he gets back then I say good luck to you. We'll just disagree, but dont pretend the writers of the articles you quoted agreed with you...because they dont.
> 
> All I am saying I dont think his comeback will be a huge plus to the team. It may be a small plus in getting Vlade or Miller some rest, but certainly not as much of a plus as even a slower Malone coming back to fill the vacant Laker PF spot.


Dont accuse someone of not reading when you didnt yourself, read the undertitle of the article...




> The Kings' defense will finally be at full strength when everyone, namely Chris Webber, gets healthy.


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## jstempi (Jul 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>SacKings384</b>!
> 
> Dont accuse someone of not reading when you didnt yourself, read the undertitle of the article...


Oh yes, the "undertitle" says it all!!! 

Maybe you should have someone read you the article and not just the "undertitle." Nowhere does Ramsay say getting Webber back will solve the defensive problem. Yes, the "undertitle" says the defense will be at full strength when he gets back but he never says that means it will be any better than it is now. The "Cure" part of the article only says that they should focus on having everyone healthy for the playoffs and focus more on defense...it doesn't say Webber will be the cure. 

"Undertitles" dont "say it all." Maybe next time you should read further than that and try to get an idea of what the writer is saying and not saying. The fact that he spends the whole article saying why the defense has lagged and doesn't say Webber will solve the problem speaks for itself. The Dallas Mavericks defense is at "FULL STRENGTH" and so that means their defense is good? :laugh: :no: Get a clue.


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## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

> Oh yes, the "undertitle" says it all!!!
> 
> Maybe you should have someone read you the article and not just the "undertitle." Nowhere does Ramsay say getting Webber back will solve the defensive problem. Yes, the "undertitle" says the defense will be at full strength when he gets back but he never says that means it will be any better than it is now. The "Cure" part of the article only says that they should focus on having everyone healthy for the playoffs and focus more on defense...it doesn't say Webber will be the cure.
> 
> "Undertitles" dont "say it all." Maybe next time you should read further than that and try to get an idea of what the writer is saying and not saying. The fact that he spends the whole article saying why the defense has lagged and doesn't say Webber will solve the problem speaks for itself. The Dallas Mavericks defense is at "FULL STRENGTH" and so that means their defense is good? Get a clue.


This is the last time im gonna go off topic, because this is not the subject of the thread, but what the LINK to the article on ESPN.COM SAID WAS and i quote "Chris Webbers return will help an ailing Kings defense" There you go... Done deal, thats it... Thats the bottom line... Kings D was number 1 last year, a contributing factor to that was Webber... Thats it, its over, get over it...


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## jstempi (Jul 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>SacKings384</b>!
> 
> 
> This is the last time im gonna go off topic, because this is not the subject of the thread, but what the LINK to the article on ESPN.COM SAID WAS and i quote "Chris Webbers return will help an ailing Kings defense" There you go... Done deal, thats it... Thats the bottom line... Kings D was number 1 last year, a contributing factor to that was Webber... Thats it, its over, get over it...


I see you skirted all my poits and did not even address them. Apparently you cannot refute them. Go ahead and pin all your defensive hope on Webbers return...you'll be sorely dissappointed. Just as the article says, which you did not refute, the loss of Keon, JJ, and Vlade's age hurt their D. Webber's return is not gonna bring back JJ, Keon, and make Vlade younger. LOL. 

And as far as you saying you wont go off topic again:

1. Promises, promises.

2. The whole point of this is that the return of Malone will have a more dramatic effect on the team than Webber's return. This is a direct rebuttal to the thread starter's opinion that the lakes wont win the Championship because the Kings are also missing starters. Man, you dont even know when you are off topic or not (you aren't).


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## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

The topic is about the Lakers, the LAKERS, not think Kings, speculate all you want, hate al lyou want, thats nice if you dont think Webber will help the D, thats nice... You dont watch the Kings, i do, i know why they are hurting defensively, its obvious, and Chris Webber will help fix that problem... I never said it would be number 1 again, but it WILL HELP... You just want to hate on the Kings just to hate, hate on Webber all you want, but hes better than Malone is this year, hes better than he was last year, hes better... So saying he wont have a big impact on the team is ignorance...


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## jstempi (Jul 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>SacKings384</b>!
> The topic is about the Lakers, the LAKERS, not think Kings, speculate all you want, hate al lyou want, thats nice if you dont think Webber will help the D, thats nice... You dont watch the Kings, i do, i know why they are hurting defensively, its obvious, and Chris Webber will help fix that problem... I never said it would be number 1 again, but it WILL HELP... You just want to hate on the Kings just to hate, hate on Webber all you want, but hes better than Malone is this year, hes better than he was last year, hes better... So saying he wont have a big impact on the team is ignorance...



The topic is about the Lakers but his argument involves the King’s getting Webber back, so it is not off topic…you just don’t want to admit there is a possibility that I am right so you want to stop talking about it and pretend it’s off topic. And I think its funny that you say you know why the Kings are hurting defensively but then you don’t say why they are hurting…but you say Webber will solve it…LOL. I pointed out what an analyst said about why the Kings D sticks (which has little to do with Webber) and you ignored it and still think Webber will solve it…LOL. So how is Webber coming back gonna make Vlade younger? Are JJ and Keon coming back when Webber does? Oh wait, they’re on other teams…you really have no clue do you?


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