# Declare your unbridled love for Sweetney thread



## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

Claim him as your guy here. Get on the bandwagon before everyone so you can tell everyone "see I told ya he wouldn't be a bust" :cheers:


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## Ventura (Aug 9, 2005)

Yeah he's gonna be great. A LOT of upside.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

Ventura said:


> Yeah he's gonna be great. A LOT of upside.


Quite a lot of backside, too.


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## SALO (Jun 6, 2002)

Darius Miles Davis said:


> Quite a lot of backside, too.


 :laugh: 

I actually think he, Tyson and Songaila make up a nice young trio for our frontcourt. All 3 players are foul prone so it's good to know we'll still have AD and Othella to throw in when needed. I'm hoping we land one of Wallace, Pryzbilla or Nene next year. I think the 6 frontcourt players we'll have for this season should be alright for us until then.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

Darius Miles Davis said:


> Quite a lot of backside, too.


:rofl: Got me with that one.


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## SausageKingofChicago (Feb 14, 2005)

Let it be known that it was I that started talking about Sweets a month ago as a principal in an Eddy Curry trade and I contended back then that pro rated over the same minutes he was in many ways a more complete and well rounded player whilst giving almost identical production

I was the first to advocate him


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## ChiBulls2315 (Aug 11, 2002)

When Curry sucked it up at the start of last year, most here were fine when Isiah finally gave in and offered up Sweetney, including myself. And then Eddy turned it around and all was well after that and that trade looked like a joke. 

I think Sweets has game and his weight will definitely go down here with Skiles and co. around. Hopefully he can eventually be a post presense for us. But he's no Curry.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

I have major doubts about Sweetney's potential. He's short and stocky, usually not a good combination in the NBA where length and athleticism prevail. Hence, I WANT to be proven wrong as the season goes on. You hear that, Sweets? PROVE ME WRONG! 

I will say this though. If there's any team for Sweetney to succeed on, he may have just found it. Skiles knows how to use players to their best abilities; he showed us that last season in particular. It honestly wouldn't surprise me if Sweets puts up 12 & 9 this season. How "sweet" would that be?


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

I wonder why people are overlooking TT.

The guy is REALLY tall, can play 3 or even 4 positions, and can make the 3 very consistently.


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## TRUTHHURTS (Mar 1, 2003)

DaBullz said:


> I wonder why people are overlooking TT.
> 
> The guy is REALLY tall, can play 3 or even 4 positions, and can make the 3 very consistently.


Exactly I think Skiles is gonna love him because he allows skiles to bring some serious small ball to the nba venue nearest you.I think TT will either start or play starter like minutes at pf .This will allow the Skiles to spread the floor run trap and pressure the ball 

Chandler
Thomas
Deng
Kirk
Duhon

Chandler
Thomas
Nocioni
Deng
Kurt


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## ztect (Jun 12, 2002)

Quantity not quality......................


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## Greg Ostertag! (May 1, 2003)

Can fill in at PG if required!


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

why are we overlooking TT? I cant speak for everyone else, but personally the guy has not earned his money, imo. But hey, he won't have to earn it here. He is just another player. He won't hurt the club in limited minutes, in fact he could be an asset. 

Jackson will get cut.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

truebluefan said:


> why are we overlooking TT? I cant speak for everyone else, but personally the guy has not earned his money, imo. But hey, he won't have to earn it here. He is just another player. He won't hurt the club in limited minutes, in fact he could be an asset.
> 
> Jackson will get cut.












Jackson 5

The Jackson Five comprised five brothers, Jackie Jackson (b. Sigmund Esco Jackson, 4 May 1951, Gary, Indiana, USA), Tito Jackson (b. Toriano Adaryll Jackson, 15 October 1953, Gary, Indiana, USA), *Jermaine Jackson* (b. Jermaine LaJuane Jackson, 11 December 1954, Gary, Indiana, USA), Marlon Jackson (b. 12 March 1957, Gary, Indiana, USA) and Michael Jackson (b. 29 August 1958, Gary, Indiana, USA).


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## rosenthall (Aug 1, 2002)

Mike Sweetney is a god.

And yes, FJ, this entire board should be collectively puckering up to your arse hole right now, as time has proven you to be remarkably accurate with your foresight.


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## LuolDeng (Feb 22, 2004)

Sweetney :clap: 

12+ a night. Book it. :cheers:


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

rosenthall said:


> Mike Sweetney is a god.
> 
> And yes, FJ, this entire board should be collectively puckering up to your arse hole right now, as time has proven you to be remarkably accurate with your foresight.


I'll pass on the pucker, no matter how well-deserved.

And not to nitpick, but didn't the Sweetney talk originate around the trading deadline?


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

ScottMay said:


> I'll pass on the pucker, no matter how well-deserved.
> 
> And not to nitpick, but didn't the Sweetney talk originate around the trading deadline?


If my memory is right, Sweetney was talked about in the Crawford deal.


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## rosenthall (Aug 1, 2002)

ScottMay said:


> I'll pass on the pucker, no matter how well-deserved.
> 
> And not to nitpick, but didn't the Sweetney talk originate around the trading deadline?


It did. But then those rumours quieted down, and pretty much since the beginning of DNA-gate, he'd been opining about how a trade with Eddy Curry and Michael Sweetney as the principals would be the most reasonable, and logical outcome to the situation.

Edit: And most people gave him a considerable amount of crap for it too.


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

rosenthall said:


> It did. But then those rumours quieted down, and pretty much since the beginning of DNA-gate, he'd been opining about how a trade with Eddy Curry and Michael Sweetney as the principals would be the most reasonable, and logical outcome to the situation.
> 
> Edit: And most people gave him a considerable amount of crap for it too.


All true -- but I wouldn't confuse criticism of Sweetney or the trade as criticism of the Sausage King. I mean, no matter who brought it up, I think it's a crap trade, I think that Sweetney will be lucky to get as many minutes here as he did in NY once Skiles sees what kind of defender he is, and I think that it's very unlikely we retain Sweetney after this season.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

ScottMay said:


> All true -- but I wouldn't confuse criticism of Sweetney or the trade as criticism of the Sausage King. I mean, no matter who brought it up, I think it's a crap trade, I think that Sweetney will be lucky to get as many minutes here as he did in NY once Skiles sees what kind of defender he is, and I think that it's very unlikely we retain Sweetney after this season.


Given the circumstances, I don't see what's wrong with replacing Eddy Curry by committee for 1 season (i.e. Sweetney, Thomas, Songaila) then signing a long-term replacement next summer. That's why Pax made the trade. Plus we got at least 2 draft picks from the sound of things, which are more assets added to the table. 

And if Sweetney surprises us all with a great season, then I think we have an team option. Not sure though.


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)




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## bullsville (Jan 23, 2005)

DaBullz said:


> Jackson 5
> 
> The Jackson Five comprised five brothers, Jackie Jackson (b. Sigmund Esco Jackson, 4 May 1951, Gary, Indiana, USA), Tito Jackson (b. Toriano Adaryll Jackson, 15 October 1953, Gary, Indiana, USA), *Jermaine Jackson* (b. Jermaine LaJuane Jackson, 11 December 1954, Gary, Indiana, USA), Marlon Jackson (b. 12 March 1957, Gary, Indiana, USA) and Michael Jackson (b. 29 August 1958, Gary, Indiana, USA).


F you, DaBullz!!

Why did you have to post that? I had lived for over 40 years not knowing that Michael and I share a birthday, thanks a lot!


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## theanimal23 (Mar 2, 2005)

After reading things about Sweets on another board from NYK fans, I am not too disappointed. I've followed this guy somewhat through his entire career, and felt he was a poor Brand. 

The reason why I kept hoping Eddy would remain with us is for two things: 1. His potential (few have as much as he does), and 2. We were hoping to grow as a team with Eddy and Tyson as our foundation.

Our foundation has shifted, and Eddy has only showed glimpses of using that potential. 

I think if we get AD back, Pax made a good trade for as bad as the circumstances came too.

Can Sweets develop into a nice 14 + 10 player, I think so. But can he develop into an offensively gifted center (as Eddy showed right before his illness), no. 

I hope we don't make a boneheaded move and sign Pryz or Nene for A LOT more money than they are worth next year. I would like to sign some combo of Nene, Pryz, and Wilcox though.

Lets hope a deal at the tradedeadline can be made for Zach Randolph, Boozer, or a superstar who is disgruntled.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

I listed Sweetney on my list the other day of "breakout" players and said that he would have sort of a Brand lite like season. He will get different minutes in Chitown but should play well, I hope Pax picks up his option now. I think a lot of Bulls fans will be very pleased with Sweetney, I know I will, at the end of the day it still doesn't make up for losing Curry though.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

He shoots 53% 75% in fts. In 19 minutes he averages the same rebounds Eddy did. 

He averaged just over 6 shot attempts a game last year. 

Eddy: 29 minutes, 54% 72% fts. 5.4 rebounds just over 16 pts a game. He shot just over 11 shot attempts a game.


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

Not a Sweetney fan.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

I'm pretty torn. He's a smart kid from a solid background, and that's very good.

Yet he's appeared out of shape most of the time. That's very bad.

Getting him reminds me of getting Frank Williams last year. Everyone acted like he was gonna break out and he stunk it up. I hope that doesn't happen again but once again we're getting a kid who's shown flashes but appears out of shape and didn't make much of a good opportunity at his first stop.

He's got good offensive skills, and that I really like. He's slow and unathletic though, and I think he'll have trouble playing with guys in fast paced sets and against guys with any kind of quickness. I think he rates under guys like Brand and Randolph in this respect, and I think that's part of why he won't blow up like them. 

But maybe I'm wrong and he does... I certainly hope so. Realistically though, what I hope he can provide is offensive punch for the second team. The way I see it, trading Curry means Gordon probably needs to start to keep us at a respectable level of offensive ability starting out.

Duhon feeding Sweetney gives us a nice second team option if things work out well. If they don't, well, we'll struggle more.


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## Sith (Oct 20, 2003)

i think if sweetney can play 30mins a game, hes going post some nice numbers, 17/9. he will match eddy's production, but stats dont always tell everything. it's just much easier to score when curry is in the game, he's much better at throwing down the jam when someone does a nice pass to him. sweetney will have to work hard for his points since he's shorter and less athletic,he will have to do a couple of fakes and try to play around the defenders, but curry plays over the defenders. i think this is the biggest difference.


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## Sith (Oct 20, 2003)

Mikedc said:


> I'm pretty torn. He's a smart kid from a solid background, and that's very good.
> 
> Yet he's appeared out of shape most of the time. That's very bad.
> 
> ...


this is far different from the frank william. FW never had a chance to get consistent minutes because the bulls were stacked at the PG spot. sweetney is essentially the bulls only reliable post threat, he will be given alot of chancce to showcase what he's got. i think he will do just fine.


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

Sweetney's pre-draft scouting report on nbadraft.net:



> Comparison: Elton Brand (less athletic)
> 
> Strengths: Substance over style. It doesn't look pretty but he sure gets the job done. You can tell by the way that he plays that he is a hard worker. Lost a lot of weight between his sophomore and junior seasons, and it shows. He is still carrying a little extra weight, but he carries it well (in the NBA he will likely need to continue to trim down and add more muscle). Has an amazing work ethic and hustle to his game. It's apparent with the way he runs the floor, he usually beats some of the faster guys down the court because he doesn't dilly dally around out there, and has a seemingly effortless transition from defense to offense and vice-versa. He knows his position, and lives in the painted area and around the blocks. Has great hands for a big guy, and some nice low post moves. Has decent footwork and a a nice little turnaround jumper, and his hook shot is improving. He is constantly double teamed. Is the type of big guy that guards love to play with because he sets up position in the post, and actually calls for the ball. His hands are always up, letting his guards know that he is ready for the entry pass. Never takes plays off. Always working for position, on both the offense and defensive sides of the ball. It isn't that he is slow, he is actually faster than you might think. Everybody loves big guys, especially ones with the basketball skills Sweetney has. If he were a few inches taller he would be a top 5 pick. He will play in the NBA for a very long time. He is a coaches dream because of his work ethic, and he will surely get better. Has a wonderful, unassuming approach seen in the little things such as his willingness to carry team equipment on trips.
> 
> Weakness: Not a super run jump athlete. He isn't very explosive. This can be seen when he has the ball as well, sometimes his movement is a little methodical. However in no way is he immobile. Will be undersized at the 4 in the NBA. Although he might not be a franchise type player in the NBA, he will be a contributor for sure. With the amount of baby fat that he still has it takes him a while to get going, which limits his rebounding ability somewhat.


http://nbadraft.net/profiles/mikesweetney.htm


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## bullet (Jul 1, 2003)

I actually think has a very good chance to turn things around for him , or more so upgrade his status with increased pt.

Sweets is actually our best paint scorer as for now. He's not as good as Eddy in the post offense but also shoots with very high fg% (about the same as Ed). He's a way better rebounder than Ed and one of the top offensive rebounders in the league last season.
Yes , both he and Eddy have overweight issues , but from what I read Sweets has great work Ethic , he might go all over this chance and get in his best shape (hopefully).
Sweets also has a *very* 'comfortable' contract. 2.1 mil this season , 2.7 in the next (team option) and then rfa.
yeah , he commits tons of fouls - but this gets better with experience (Eddy committed same amount in 2nd year) and we have an advantage of having a very nice backup for him (perhaps starter) that can also score in Songaila.
Sweets has better efficiency per minute rating and a much much better +/- rating than Eddy.

I think Sweets will play around 28-30 minutes pg and prove to be a very useful player in the paint with a 14 and 9 area.


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## YearofDaBulls (Oct 20, 2004)

Sweetney isnt bad but he is a PF and not a C. He also needs to get in shape.


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## giusd (Apr 17, 2003)

I saw sweets play many games last year and was at a couple as well. first he is huge and a load. But he needs to lose weight, pick up his D, and develop some offensive consistency. the reall problem with sweets is he plays below the rim. I mean he does not really get off the ground much. Kind of like Oakley. We shall see but i think he is not going to see much time. IMHO noci will see some time next year at PF and with the teams new additions sweets had better really pick up his game and if not he is going to get cut or sit with TT at the end of the bench.

david


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## SausageKingofChicago (Feb 14, 2005)

ScottMay said:


> I'll pass on the pucker, no matter how well-deserved.


Thanks anyway bro..but I'm not that kind of girl anyway


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## SausageKingofChicago (Feb 14, 2005)

rosenthall said:


> It did. But then those rumours quieted down, and pretty much since the beginning of DNA-gate, he'd been opining about how a trade with Eddy Curry and Michael Sweetney as the principals would be the most reasonable, and logical outcome to the situation.
> 
> Edit: And most people gave him a considerable amount of crap for it too.


Thanks Rosenthall

And yes..i got baked


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## MLKG (Aug 25, 2003)

I've never felt I've been able to make an objective comparison about Sweetney's game because I've never been able to get over how fat he is while watching him.

He's an efficient scorer though and knows how to position himself for rebounds.... he's also really fat.


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## jbulls (Aug 31, 2005)

bullet said:


> I actually think has a very good chance to turn things around for him , or more so upgrade his status with increased pt.
> 
> Sweets is actually our best paint scorer as for now. He's not as good as Eddy in the post offense but also shoots with very high fg% (about the same as Ed). He's a way better rebounder than Ed and one of the top offensive rebounders in the league last season.
> Yes , both he and Eddy have overweight issues , but from what I read Sweets has great work Ethic , he might go all over this chance and get in his best shape (hopefully).
> ...



I think the kind of shape Sweetney is in is going to go a long way in determining how much he contributes. I don't care how many offensive rebounds he gets or how high his shooting percentage is, he's not going to get on the court for 30MPG if he can't get up and down and guard people, not with Scott Skiles coaching.

As far as his work ethic, who knows? On the one hand, by all accounts he worked hard w/ Mark Agguire and succesfully developed a nice post game. On the other hand, his size does not exactly indicate a guy really hitting the cardio. He's clearly packed on a few since his Georgetown days.

I've got my fingers crossed, but typically short fat PF's with developed post games don't start for good NBA teams if they aren't named Charles Barkley.

All in all, my stance on Sweetney is cautiously optimistic. I'm not ready to bury him like some are, but he needs to improve in some areas to be a difference maker.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

Darius Miles Davis said:


> Quite a lot of backside, too.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

Mike luvs KG said:


> I've never felt I've been able to make an objective comparison about Sweetney's game because I've never been able to get over how fat he is while watching him.
> 
> He's an efficient scorer though and knows how to position himself for rebounds.... he's also really fat.


I saw him really lay some smack on a diffident and lazy Kwame Brown a couple years ago in a meaningless April game. If he plays Kwame every game, he'll do ok.


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## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

I'm going to get on the "Sweetney will scratch and claw for minutes behind Darius Songaila" bandwagon and then hope I'm wrong. And wrong not because Songaila disappoints, but because Sweetney surprises.


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## SausageKingofChicago (Feb 14, 2005)

ScottMay said:


> All true -- but I wouldn't confuse criticism of Sweetney or the trade as criticism of the Sausage King. I mean, no matter who brought it up, I think it's a crap trade, I think that Sweetney will be lucky to get as many minutes here as he did in NY once Skiles sees what kind of defender he is, and I think that it's very unlikely we retain Sweetney after this season.


As to whether anyone thought it was a crap trade or not ( and regardless of what I see in Sweetney as I do believe in his capacity to be a solid NBA player ) when it became clear to me that it was likely Eddy had to go..this was one of the only trades out of about 2 or 3 that were plausible

The thinking was :

#1

If we're trading a post player we better get someone back who can play in the post

#2 

It would likely be someone with big questions mark over them due to the question marks Eddy had over him ( and that's not our indivdidual opinions in terms of what side of that fence we're on - but it was just a reality - there were issues/question marks with him )

Initially I always had Antonio Davis going to make it work and with Penny coming back instead of TT to give us an expiring contract and another "big guard"

But AD had a home here , was/is a leader , and brought a lot of other intangible benefits to the organisation.... Over time I really didn't think they would give him up - particularly given his role in the players union and the ancillary benefits that come with that ( in terms of the organisation having a more direct 'ear to the ground" within the players union )

I wonder if AD doesn't make it back and simply retires whether he was included at the end of the day due to a possibility that his position within this organisation may have become untenable given the conflict he had as a member of this team and as a leading representative within the players union

That's a seperate point and it will be interesting to see how that issue shakes out

In recent days when it became clear that a S and T had gathered pace and something was going to go down ..my attention shifted to the numbers ( on the assumption that the Bulls would not give up AD ) and to make a trade work without him 

The only way this could have happened would have been for Malik Rose to be added to Sweetney ..or if we had a post player in Rose ( albeit an undersized one ) grab a wing support player in Ariza 

And I thought this was the one that was going to go down given that Pax was super interested in Malik Rose ( even contemplating trading for him apparently when he was new in the chair ) before RC Buford resigned him a couple of summers ago

I thought Rose was worth around $3M a year and for the extra $3M he gets paid on top of this for 2 more seaosns after this I did not think it was a big cap imposition and this extra money covered the cost of Othella Harrington ( who we would not likely resign if it had of been Malik Rose in the package )

Initial reports yesterday had a bunch of conflicting information ( The Times V AP ) as to what Eddy was getting paid and I could not see how the reported trade matched up within the CBA 

We do Thomas and Sweetney + Jackson = $17M

AD is at $15M with his trade kicker 

If the trade differentials were stretched to capacity ( and I assuming they were given Jackson's throw in inclusion ) then the Bulls have to be giving the Knicks around $22.5M 

This would suggest Eddy is starting at $7.5M ..averaging at $11M on a 6 year deal - thus $66M total. 

That is what it implies given who else is involved and their respective costs

* The aftermath *

At first ..I was like ..what the ?

I went and saw a client and was only gone for an hour and I get back to my desktop and there is like a 12 page thread already that Eddy has been traded

I knew he was being traded but my initial reaction when I learned of the principals was disappointment 

I had hoped for Tim Thomas last year in a Jamal Crawford sign and trade and thought it was a fair swap. I don't dislike Tim Thomas as a player but he has always been a bit of an underperformer and never quite broken through to the next level.

I didn't really care for Peggy Lee..but I think Ariza is still a project we could nurture over the next season or two and he could turn into a gun wing player. I still believe that.

I thought we should have held firm for him even if it meant taking back Malik Rose and cutting Othella,AD,and Malik Allen loose at the end of the season

But with the benefit of a night's sleep ( OK I diodn't really sleep...I am somewhat of an insomniac at the moment..probably all those caffeine pills I am taking to help with my training schedule..and come to think of it I havee had a dizzy spell lately..damn maybe I have HCM ..DNA test for FJ..Check. )

That bud's for you Scott

So thinking about last night and as I sit here in my home office with the sun streaming in ..I can understand the package better

Pax needed someone like Tim Thomas that can come in and score between 13ppg to 15ppg to help offset Eddy's scoring production. He's a one year gun for hire and with the Bulls maybe wanting to take it a bit slower with Luol to start the season..Thomas makes some sense . He's a bit like Rashard Lewis ..in that he's very perimeter orientated and almost seems to lean more toward a forward/guard swing player rather than using his height to play a true 3/4 combo forward role

So I now understand Tim Thomas

And if AD doesn't make it back ... I think we have his toughness and his ability to play pick and roll + his ability to step into a spot to plug the holes in defense ..in Darius Songaila. So I'm not worried about what we lose in his production ..maybe a bit of a father figure type leadership..but he may be back. We'll see.

We have a replacement post player in Sweetney which is what I thought we always needed in any trade involving Eddy. Check. He can produce in the post. Check. He is not a transition fast paced break player..probably never will be. But when it gets down to the business end of the season in the playoffs..its all about half court offense and your ability to execute within. This is where Sweetney will find his utility if he commits to getting in shape and he has a coaching staff that is prepared to commit to him.

Plus Pax still has his much revered cap room to effect trades next summer and beyond and/or be the biggest player in free agency

And of course the draft picks are welcome ..particularly in the context of Pax's sound track record as a "draft" GM

Sweetney , Thomas and Songaila will cover what we lose in Eddy and AD ..at least statistically speaking

The real question mark will be about the chemistry this season and how it works with what we've added and what we lose

I don't think we make the playoffs this year and we will regress by around 10 wins to a late 30's win team

But the upside is that the real core has now been identified and is in place and that is 

Chandler, Deng and Hinrich 

Jury is still out on Gordon IMO as to whether he is core or whether he is an asset waiting to be converted down the track.

So with core being identified ..some extra draft picks being accumulated along the way and having the biggest amount of cap room for the next couple of years ( this is more relevant in the context of facilitating trades as a 3rd party "cap space" operator ) irrespective of what you think of Pax now and the situation that we're in.... structurally , we're still in pretty good shape to improve the ball club fairly significantly over the next year or two..when you would like to think that the core of Chandler, Deng and Hinrich ( and hopefully Gordon ) are really coming into their own

One last thing I am glad of..that Pax has smart enough not to let himself be the guinea pig on this issue out of principle..where the only way for both sides in arbitration was down

On this issue, commercially, he made the right choice


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## MongolianDeathCloud (Feb 27, 2004)

A pro-Sweets repost:
Sweetney had a better PSA than both Curry and Harrington (1.18, compared to 1.17 and 1.13, respectively). When Sweetney took a shot, it on average produced more points than either of the other guys.

If you look at a statistical measure that factors in offensive rebounds, assists, and turnovers as part of a player's offensive ability, like Dean Oliver's ORtg, then Sweets kills Eddy and Othella, with 112 versus their 103 and 107, respectively.

I know some of you are shaking your heads right now. But let's not forget, the Bulls were an awful offensive team last season (26th out of 30th in points per 100 possessions). If you don't lose the forest for the trees, I think it makes sense. As legendary John Wooden said, don't mistake activity for achievement.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

MongolianDeathCloud said:


> A pro-Sweets repost:
> Sweetney had a better PSA than both Curry and Harrington (1.18, compared to 1.17 and 1.13, respectively).


I have no idea how you got access to Curry's medical records, but John Paxson really could have used you a few days ago.

By the way, what's with the sudden interest in the prostate health of NBA players?


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## MongolianDeathCloud (Feb 27, 2004)

Mikedc said:


> I have no idea how you got access to Curry's medical records, but John Paxson really could have used you a few days ago.
> 
> By the way, what's with the sudden interest in the prostate health of NBA players?


I'm working on my first piece for Prevention magazine!! Look for it in a grocery checkout line near you! And don't be confused, I'm definitely not referring to *P*oints per *S*hot *A*ttempt, as measured by PTS/(FGA + 0.44*FTA). If you're getting confused, you probably need more bran in your diet and you may want to cut back on the mercury laden fish foods for a bit! :wlift:


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## rebelsun (Nov 25, 2003)

I wouldn't get too exicted. I think at his best he's Clearance Weatherspoon.


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## FanOfAll8472 (Jun 28, 2003)

truebluefan said:


> why are we overlooking TT? I cant speak for everyone else, but personally the guy has not earned his money, imo. But hey, he won't have to earn it here. He is just another player. He won't hurt the club in limited minutes, in fact he could be an asset.
> 
> Jackson will get cut.


 No, he hasn't earned his money, but the fact that he's grossly overpaid has nothing to do with what he can do on the court. He can stretch the defenses with a good 3 pt shot, something lacking at times last year, and post up smaller players. So the Bulls have a lot of versatility - big ball, small ball, inside-out...

I don't really like Sweetney, but I've seen enough times to comment on him. Whoever said Sweetney has a large backside is spot-on. He uses it well too, when he's backing down. A lot of players are taller than him, but lack the strength to stop him from muscling them down. Unfortunately, Sweetney lacks mobility (quickness with and without the ball), court awareness, passing, and especially defense. Potential is there though. For now, I don't expect a lot out of him, but better than Othella Harrington.


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## Sith (Oct 20, 2003)

as much as i like sweetney, he's just like marcus fizer. and we let fizer go........... but now we have no choices but let sweetney play.


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## ChiBulls2315 (Aug 11, 2002)

I was just going to ask what we're going to do with Sweetney's contract, but I looked it up quick. A few papers suggested his option would just be dropped but for the record, the Knicks already picked it up a few months ago. Good IMO. 

http://www.charlottebobcatshoops.com/knicks/news/sweetney_050630.html



> NEW YORK, June 30, 2005 – New York Knickerbockers President of Basketball Operations Isiah Thomas announced today that forward Michael Sweetney’s option for the 2006-07 season has been picked up by the team.
> 
> Sweetney, 6-8, 270-pounds, finished his second season with the Knicks during 2004-05 and averaged 8.4 points and 5.4 rebounds in 77 games. Originally drafted as the ninth overall pick in the 2003 NBA Draft, the 22-year-old Washington, D.C.-native registered career-highs in almost every statistical category from his rookie season in 2003-04.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

ChiBulls2315 said:


> I was just going to ask what we're going to do with Sweetney's contract, but I looked it up quick. A few papers suggested his option would just be dropped but for the record, the Knicks already picked it up a few months ago. Good IMO.
> 
> http://www.charlottebobcatshoops.com/knicks/news/sweetney_050630.html


I'd seen that on Hoopshype too, when looking at the salary. That's $3M less in cap room, although it's not bad in that, so long as he's ok, he'll at least be a nice piece to trade away. And hey, he might end up being good.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

MongolianDeathCloud said:


> I'm working on my first piece for Prevention magazine!! Look for it in a grocery checkout line near you! And don't be confused, I'm definitely not referring to *P*oints per *S*hot *A*ttempt, as measured by PTS/(FGA + 0.44*FTA). If you're getting confused, you probably need more bran in your diet and you may want to cut back on the mercury laden fish foods for a bit! :wlift:


Mmmm.... mercury laden fish.


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

Man, let's trade with atlanta for AL HARRINGTON

if we did that, I'd be absolutely FINE

I think that's a possiblity also...NBA insider states that the hawks are going to try and trade him before the deadline...

Isn't he in the last year of his deal??

Plus I'm pretty sure he'd like to play with his mentor A. Davis (if he comes back)

DO IT PAX


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## Swan (Jun 27, 2005)

Sith said:


> as much as i like sweetney, he's just like marcus fizer. and we let fizer go........... but now we have no choices but let sweetney play.


I haven't seen a whole lot of film, but from what I have seen Sweetney has a much better feel in the post than fizer ever did. Marcus used to just get the Ball and bull up that baby hook. Sweetney has good post footwork, tends to get his defender off-balance and use his bulk to clear space.


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## mgolding (Jul 20, 2002)

I want to have Sweet's babies. god i love that big hunk of man


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## stl705 (May 21, 2005)

Well.....Sweetney was one of my fav. college b-ball players at Georgetown.


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## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

> "I feel Othella has been very good in the starting lineup so it's no reflection on 'O,'" Skiles said. "I just want to mix it up a little bit and take a look at Mike."
> 
> Sweetney is logging heavy minutes early in the preseason. Skiles has praised his work ethic, and it appears Sweetney, who had 16 points and seven rebounds in 25 minutes Saturday, will make a valuable contribution as the Bulls adjust to the departure of Eddy Curry.
> 
> "He's a hard-working guy," Skiles said. "He has done everything we've asked. We're making what I think is a pretty good assumption that he's going to get better and better as the year goes on."


Where was this type of love from Skiles for Curry?

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune...bulls,1,6511348.story?coll=cs-bulls-headlines


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## SausageKingofChicago (Feb 14, 2005)

I had him at 17 and 8 over 30 minutes ..I think he will end up playing like 26 minutes 

As the focal point of the 2nd unit he should ge betting 13 to 14 looks a night and he'll convert on 6 of those 

2 trips to the line ... I would expect 75% say

I readjust at 15 and 7 in 26 minutes from Sweetney


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

I just don't like that he is Eddy's replacement. Eddy was a bull damnit. We went through some hard times with Eddy. Now Sweets gets to jump on the completed ship, as a former knick and ride off into glory.

Can we have a moment of silence for the fallen bovine from along the way? Elton Brand, Corey Benjamin, Roger Mason Jr., Brad Miller, Ron Artest, Dalibor, Fred Hoiberg, Brent Barry, Trent Hassell, Bill Cartwright--here's to all of you and your fellow breatheren.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I built an attatchment to our guys when we were struggling, and the whole point of going through the down years was that someday I'd get to see those guys on top giving the rest of the league the finger. But the only guy really left now is Tyson. It's not as good as I hoped it would be.


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## babybulls23 (May 16, 2005)

Don't forget..khalid el-amin, aj guyton, jake voskuhl, etc...but even though I probably watched 90% of Bulls' games even with those guys, it was much easier to become attached to the WINNING players that have come in and changed the Bulls' attitude around. And also trades are part of the NBA, I don't see it as Sweetney taking Curry's place and just riding into glory, he has worked hard and will continue to work hard to earn his place on the team, and the trust and respect of his new Bull teammates. 

Also, sorry to keep rambling, but kind of related, I dont see his as a replacement to Curry. You can't just replace a player like Curry, it will have to be a combination of TT and sweets, as well as the continued development of the current players. I dont think im saying anything new here but I don't see Sweetney as Curry's replacement. But I sure am gonna miss the days of Trenton Hassell as the starting 2.


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## SALO (Jun 6, 2002)

futuristxen said:


> I don't know about the rest of you, but I built an attatchment to our guys when we were struggling, and the whole point of going through the down years was that someday I'd get to see those guys on top giving the rest of the league the finger. But the only guy really left now is Tyson. It's not as good as I hoped it would be.


I know what you mean, the ultimate example for me would be Ron Artest. Some of my favorite Bulls moments were during his last season with us. Ron was in and out of the lineup that year because of a nasty finger injury, but I really liked the team we had right before he was traded. We beat the Lakers one time in Chicago, and Artest totally shutdown Kobe... then Kobe said they would take care of our behinds back in L.A, but we won that game too and Artest dominated Kobe again! Then afterwards Artest would say how teams weren't afraid of playing the Bulls before, but now they're starting to fear us again. And of course who could forget the game where Oak and Ron took down a crazed Shaq, preventing Brad Miller's murder. 

Ron, Eddy, Tyson, Jamal, even ERob ... I wanted all those guys to be around when we finally made it back to the playoffs, but Tyson is the only one left from those days. :sigh:


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## Soulful Sides (Oct 10, 2005)

I wish he had Eddy's crazy athleticism.


As he is, he'll be a good player.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

I like this big son of a gun. I enjoy watching him as if he were a circus curiosity. I think he may be my favorite Bull. We'll see.

And... I agree 100% with futuristixen. Seemed like a long haul thinking Jamal and Eddy would be winning Bulls only to be seeing them as Knicks when we're rooting for Sweetney, Songolia, and Tim freaking Thomas.


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

http://www.suntimes.com/output/bulls/cst-spt-bullfeat16.html




> "We like the way he's played,'' coach Scott Skiles said after Sweetney scored 27 points and grabbed 18 rebounds in the team's first two preseason games. "He's shown flashes of some of the things he can do. He's a conscientious guy; he's trying to do the right things out there. He's definitely got a low-post game. He can make a shot, and his defensive reactions are good.
> 
> *"He's a hardworking guy, and he's done everything that we've asked. We're making what I think is a pretty good assumption that he's going to continue to get better and better as the year goes on. He's a very likable guy. We just really need to focus on his conditioning. He's got a tremendous upside, there's no doubt about that. But he's got to really, really work on his conditioning and get to a level where he could be a big-minute player for us.''*
> 
> ...


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## lorgg (Dec 8, 2003)

Sith said:


> as much as i like sweetney, he's just like marcus fizer. and we let fizer go........... but now we have no choices but let sweetney play.


I think intangibles, such as attitude and hard work, will be the difference here.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

lorgg said:


> I think intangibles, such as attitude and hard work, will be the difference here.


Hard work?

He's easily one of the fattest players in the NBA.

He’s tremendously skilled, I’ll give you that. 

But, there are "no excuses" for a professional athlete to have such a rotund physique.


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## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

kukoc4ever said:


> Hard work?
> 
> He's easily one of the fattest players in the NBA.
> 
> ...


Is white a slimming color? Because Sweets didn't look as fat last night as he did Tuesday. Seriously, dude is chubby. But I don't think he's as "fat" s a lot of people are making him out to be. The only place it seems to affect him is lift. He can't get off the court worth a damn. But he seems to get up and down the court very well, and doesn't appear to tire easily on the court. In the two preseason games I've seen, I've not noticed him giving up on plays or lagging behind to catch a breather. He always appears to be in the middle of things (insert fat joke here about how he can't help but be in the middle of things since he takes up the whole court). 

It will be interesting to see what Skiles can do with him. 

I stated repeatedly that I didn't like Sweetney coming in but that I'd give him a chance. So far, I'm encouraged by what I've seen. Sweets appears to have very good instincts. He might prove to be a keeper. Honestly, I don't recall Skiles being as openly complimentary of a player other than Hinrich. That is keeping my spirits up as well. I particularly liked Skiles positive comment about Sweetney's defensive reactions, though I can't say I've seen much evidence to support it.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

stl705 said:


> Well.....Sweetney was one of my fav. college b-ball players at Georgetown.


sweets was my favorite player in college , which is probably why i am still such a big fan of his game, whether he was a bull or not .


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## Soulful Sides (Oct 10, 2005)

kukoc4ever said:


> Hard work?
> 
> He's easily one of the fattest players in the NBA.
> 
> ...


I don't think you can accuse a tremendously skilled player of not being a hard worker. If the fat doesn't impede his game, it could just be that he spends his gym time working on technique instead of physique.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

SALO said:


> I know what you mean, the ultimate example for me would be Ron Artest. Some of my favorite Bulls moments were during his last season with us. Ron was in and out of the lineup that year because of a nasty finger injury, but I really liked the team we had right before he was traded. We beat the Lakers one time in Chicago, and Artest totally shutdown Kobe... then Kobe said they would take care of our behinds back in L.A, but we won that game too and Artest dominated Kobe again! Then afterwards Artest would say how teams weren't afraid of playing the Bulls before, but now they're starting to fear us again. And of course who could forget the game where Oak and Ron took down a crazed Shaq, preventing Brad Miller's murder.
> 
> Ron, Eddy, Tyson, Jamal, even ERob ... I wanted all those guys to be around when we finally made it back to the playoffs, but Tyson is the only one left from those days. :sigh:


Do you remember when Artest went at Gary Payton toe to toe? And Payton was like "Yeah, he's alright"


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

And I'll get to like Sweetney, just like I like all the Bulls. It will just take some time. It's hard to hate on a fat guy.


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## Soulful Sides (Oct 10, 2005)

Skiles:



> “You can see some of the things he can do,” Skiles said. “He can pass the ball. He can handle the ball a little bit out front. He can score a little bit down low. He makes free throws. There’s a lot of things he can do. We’re still trying to figure out how to fully utilize him.”


http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/sportsstory.asp?id=107166


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

bumping this.

very amusing video over at comcast of tyson, noch, and duhon declaring their love for sweetney.



:laugh:



http://chicago.comcastsportsnet.com/multimedia.asp


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## bullsville (Jan 23, 2005)

mizenkay said:


> bumping this.
> 
> very amusing video over at comcast of tyson, noch, and duhon declaring their love for sweetney.
> 
> ...


LMAO, my brother and I were watching this today when it was on CSN at he commented "what is this, love Mike Sweetney day?"

I said "it must be his birthday" (even though I knew that's in October).


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## Soulful Sides (Oct 10, 2005)

mizenkay said:


> bumping this.
> 
> very amusing video over at comcast of tyson, noch, and duhon declaring their love for sweetney.
> 
> ...


That was great. 

I hope they get all of potential out of him.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

Hooray for Sweets!


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

ace20004u said:


> I listed Sweetney on my list the other day of "breakout" players and said that he would have sort of a Brand lite like season. He will get different minutes in Chitown but should play well, I hope Pax picks up his option now. I think a lot of Bulls fans will be very pleased with Sweetney, I know I will, at the end of the day it still doesn't make up for losing Curry though.



I told you guys that you would be pleased. Now if we can just get his minutes up and get him into Brandlike #'s, or if he could grow 4 inches and become a center!


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## dkg1 (May 31, 2002)

I was certainly happy with Sweetney last night. I never knew him to be such a rebounder. He seems to have a surprisingly nice touch away from the basket as well. Although he did chuck up an ill advised shot along the baseline late in the Spurs game.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

No real love yet, but he has my attention. 13 rebounds in less than 20 minutes??? Against the world champs and most during crunch time! 

Let's hope he continues.


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## bullsville (Jan 23, 2005)

21.0 min
.538 FG
.750 FT
3.0 off reb
7.3 tot reb
11.3 pts
1.0 blk
1.0 ast (only 1.3 TO)

As long as Sweets keeps giving us 11/7/1 in 21 minutes this season, the sting of losing AD will hurt much less...


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## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

Sweetney continues to impress this doubting Thomas. I'm actually starting to get to the point where, when he isn't in games, I'm looking for Skiles to call his number. That is a far, far cry from how I felt about him when the trade was announced.

You know who he reminds me of a little bit? A short Brad Miller. Poor athleticism, no lift and a "below the rim" game. But nice touch, good vision, crafty and fundamentally sound footwork and good use of his body in rebounding and posting up. 

I'm not saying the kid is going to start dropping triple doubles from the high post like Miller eventually did, but I see some similarities on basic skill sets and physical shortcomings.

He's looking more and more like a keeper to me all the time.


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

Ron Cey said:


> Sweetney continues to impress this doubting Thomas. I'm actually starting to get to the point where, when he isn't in games, I'm looking for Skiles to call his number. That is a far, far cry from how I felt about him when the trade was announced.
> 
> You know who he reminds me of a little bit? A short Brad Miller. Poor athleticism, no lift and a "below the rim" game. *But nice touch, good vision, crafty and fundamentally sound footwork and good use of his body in rebounding and posting up. *
> 
> ...



i agree. and would add that i love that he doesn't give up on plays. he just fights. this tenacity will bode well for him once the conditioning is up to speed.


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## TripleDouble (Jul 26, 2002)

bullsville said:


> 21.0 min
> .538 FG
> .750 FT
> 3.0 off reb
> ...


The sting of losing AD is felt by our interior defense. AD's numbers weren't good -- he contributed by being in the right place at the right time on defense.


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## jbulls (Aug 31, 2005)

FWIW, I thought Sweetney looked a lot more active on defense last night too.


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## Soulful Sides (Oct 10, 2005)

I wonder why these guys spend so much time with other NBA coaches, then when Skiles gets to them it's suddenly discovered that their conditioning is poor?

He needs to work on his lift.

http://www.truehoop.com/free-agents-and-trades-835-how-to-jump-like-desmond-mason.html


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## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

mizenkay said:


> i agree. and would add that i love that he doesn't give up on plays. he just fights. this tenacity will bode well for him *once the conditioning is up to speed.*


My wife came downstairs while I was watching the game. Sometimes she tries to take an interest in what is happening to get me out of "the zone" I get in when I'm watching the games. The "zone" can best be described as me completely ignoring and forgetting about the existence of all those who are the dearest in the world to me the other 21.5 hours of the day.

Anyway, she came downstairs, sat quietely, looked at the screen, and said "Gee, that #50 guy is fat." End of commentary.


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## bullsville (Jan 23, 2005)

TripleDouble said:


> The sting of losing AD is felt by our interior defense. AD's numbers weren't good -- he contributed by being in the right place at the right time on defense.


Agreed, but I have no doubt that Sweets can become a good team defender. He has the bulk to bang in the box, and he actually came around TD for a steal of an entry pass last night.

His defense the first two games was horrific, but he did look better last night. And I am completely confident that, unlike Eddy, Sweets WANTS to become a good defender and will WORK TO GET BETTER.

Once he has been on the team for more than 3 games, he'll learn to just stay in front of his man in the low block and Tyson will come over and swat some of those shots into the crowd.


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## Soulful Sides (Oct 10, 2005)

More love.



> (Larry) Brown admitted this is not what he had in mind when he took over in July. "I never expected this when I got the job," Brown said. "I thought we were going to have [Mike] Sweetney, Tim Thomas...


http://www.insidehoops.com/nba_rumors.shtml

Halfway down the page.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Ron Cey said:


> Anyway, she came downstairs, sat quietely, looked at the screen, and said "Gee, that #50 guy is fat." End of commentary.


So was Jackie Gleason.


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## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

It's very, very early and Hinrich is even worse, but Sweetney's +/- net numbers are poor. 

http://www.82games.com/0506/0506CHI.HTM


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

DaBullz said:


> So was Jackie Gleason.


and he's dead.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

johnston797 said:


> It's very, very early and Hinrich is even worse, but Sweetney's +/- net numbers are poor.
> 
> http://www.82games.com/0506/0506CHI.HTM


When Hinrich plays 45 minutes and the team loses by 9, it's not surprising he'd be -8 or -9


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

Ron Cey said:


> My wife came downstairs while I was watching the game. Sometimes she tries to take an interest in what is happening to get me out of "the zone" I get in when I'm watching the games. The "zone" can best be described as me completely ignoring and forgetting about the existence of all those who are the dearest in the world to me the other 21.5 hours of the day.
> 
> Anyway, she came downstairs, sat quietely, looked at the screen, and said "Gee, that #50 guy is fat." End of commentary.


Thats funny! 

Almost like my former sister-in-law, years ago we all went a local hs football game in Alabama. She knew nothng about sports. We all sat there (my wife, her brothers etc and we watched the warm-ups, ect: The two teams took to the field, and the game started. Both teams had possession of the ball at least one time each and my sister-in-law turned to her husband and said,"So, when is the game starting?"

I have a daughter-in-law that is a sports fan! I love talking to her and my son about sports. She is not a bulls fan, she is a kings/Hawks fan.


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

Soulful Sides said:


> I wonder why these guys spend so much time with other NBA coaches, then when Skiles gets to them it's suddenly discovered that their conditioning is poor?
> 
> He needs to work on his lift.
> 
> http://www.truehoop.com/free-agents-and-trades-835-how-to-jump-like-desmond-mason.html


I know. Can you believe the Knicks never got on "Sweets" about his conditioning, and that they let him go to seed like that?

Oh, wait. Hold on a minute. I found this from 2004.



> The cut-looking Sweetney is currently the owner of an entirely different body than he was at this time last year. “There was some personal stuff going on back then,” he says. “But it was more than that: when you first come into the NBA you don’t really know what it takes to succeed. You THINK you know, but you don’t. Now, with the first year behind me, I think I’m a lot more aware. I know I must be in the best physical shape possible. I need that extra explosiveness in my game.”
> 
> “You think I look good now?” he laughs. “This is nothing. We’re far from the end of THAT road. Check me out in a couple of months.”


http://www.nba.com/knicks/news/summerleaguedaytwo_040708.html

Everyone's well within his rights to dream of a sleek, lively Sweetney emerging from the chrysalis that is the Bulls' unrivaled strength-and-conditioning program. It's a nice thought, and I guess there's a small chance of it happening. But it's a very small chance, and it's made smaller by the fact that Sweetney doesn't lose weight as the season progresses, he gains it.


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

Soulful Sides said:


> More love.
> 
> 
> http://www.insidehoops.com/nba_rumors.shtml
> ...


More love?

Here's the full quote:



> The problem is that right now, the group is too big. Brown has shelved more experienced players like Eddy Curry and Jamal Crawford at times in favor of rookies, including Channing Frye and David Lee, only to then yank them down the stretch of the two-point loss to the Warriors on Sunday.
> 
> Brown admitted this is not what he had in mind when he took over in July.
> 
> ...


http://www.nypost.com/sports/knicks/57007.htm

I'm not sure how that constitutes a declaration of love for Sweetney . . . but hey, don't let me crap on the man's cupcake.


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## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

ScottMay said:


> Everyone's well within his rights to dream of a sleek, lively Sweetney emerging from the chrysalis that is the Bulls' unrivaled strength-and-conditioning program.


I was underwhelmed with the Bulls program vis-a-vie Curry. I never even heard of a body fat % goal. Just weight goals. Maybe Sweetney will be different. He could earn a lot more coin by getting really cut. But I agree it's probably not in the cards. So long term, he is a very good backup \ weak starter career. A Kenny Thomas or Corliss Williamson type player.


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## bullsville (Jan 23, 2005)

Awwwww, poor Widdle Wawwy.

So you lost 2 players ("garbage" according to many Bulls fans) and had a few injuries.... awwwwww

EVERY team has some injuries during the preseason, and the last I checked the Knicks have as a team missed a total of ZERO man-games due to injury.

Maybe Larry is just "lowering expectations"? 

:rotf:

And BTW, he did show Sweets a little love, why else mention missing him? I notice he didn't say "I thought we were going to have Sweetney, Tim Thomas, *and Jermaine Jackson*."


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## Soulful Sides (Oct 10, 2005)

ScottMay said:


> Everyone's well within his rights to dream of a sleek, lively Sweetney emerging from the chrysalis that is the Bulls' unrivaled strength-and-conditioning program. It's a nice thought, and I guess there's a small chance of it happening. But it's a very small chance, and it's made smaller by the fact that Sweetney doesn't lose weight as the season progresses, he gains it.


I am optimistic that Skiles can motivate him. He is pretty good fat though. I don't like the word fat. 

I have to look up chrysalis, but I don't think the Bulls have the best strength and conditioning program. Why don't they just hire Tim Grover?


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## jbulls (Aug 31, 2005)

ScottMay said:


> I know. Can you believe the Knicks never got on "Sweets" about his conditioning, and that they let him go to seed like that?
> 
> Oh, wait. Hold on a minute. I found this from 2004.
> 
> ...


Wow. He looks a lot slimmer in the picture from '04.


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

Soulful Sides said:


> I am optimistic that Skiles can motivate him. He is pretty good fat though. I don't like the word fat.
> 
> I have to look up chrysalis, but I don't think the Bulls have the best strength and conditioning program. Why don't they just hire Tim Grover?


I have no idea whether the Bulls' strength and conditioning coaches are the best, the worst, or somewhere in between. My point is that even if they are the best, I doubt very much that they are head-and-shoulders better than everyone else, and that Sweetney has been down this road before.


----------



## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

DaBullz said:


> When Hinrich plays 45 minutes and the team loses by 9, it's not surprising he'd be -8 or -9


Your scenerio, if true, would have Hinrich at a net 0 or net -1. It's not. We are only a net -7 points for the whole year. Amazingly enough, we are -32 points worse than our opponent when Hinrich is on the court and + 25 points better than our opponent when he is off the floor. 

Rather than replying on this thread, I moved these numbers to the "Trade Hinrich" thread.


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

jbulls said:


> Wow. He looks a lot slimmer in the picture from '04.


A staple of Knicks' broadcasts from the last half of the 2004-2005 season was a bewildered Clyde Frazier wondering aloud how it was biologically possible for Sweetney to be packing on so much weight during an NBA season. 

I don't doubt that Skiles runs a much tighter ship than any of the coaches Sweetney played for in New York, but unless Sweetney moves in with Skiles and Susan Powter and has his thyroid operated on, I'm not sure it'll make much difference.


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## Soulful Sides (Oct 10, 2005)

jbulls said:


> Wow. He looks a lot slimmer in the picture from '04.


Is that youth? I think if you go back over a lot of NBA players faces during the 22-26 years of age you will see big changes.


----------



## L.O.B (Jun 13, 2002)

ScottMay said:


> I have no idea whether the Bulls' strength and conditioning coaches are the best, the worst, or somewhere in between. My point is that even if they are the best, I doubt very much that they are head-and-shoulders better than everyone else, and that Sweetney has been down this road before.


 A few examples of players that lost weight after a few seasons in the NBA, Elton Brand, Eddy Curry and Charles Barkley.There is still time for Sweets, hopefully his time has yet to come.


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## bullsville (Jan 23, 2005)

And why would anyone question the Knicks' strength and conditioning staff, or anyone on the Knicks staff for that matter?

They have proven to be such a top-notch organization from top to bottom that I refuse to believe that Sweetney's conditioning had anything to do with their incompetence.

:rotf:


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## Soulful Sides (Oct 10, 2005)

ScottMay said:


> A staple of Knicks' broadcasts from the last half of the 2004-2005 season was a bewildered Clyde Frazier wondering aloud how it was biologically possible for Sweetney to be packing on so much weight during an NBA season.
> 
> I don't doubt that Skiles runs a much tighter ship than any of the coaches Sweetney played for in New York, but unless Sweetney moves in with Skiles and Susan Powter and has his thyroid operated on, I'm not sure it'll make much difference.



Is that you in the picture under your name?

Does the new NBA dress code make you like the players more now? All the editorials say it was done for you. I'm not calling you old though. I do not even know if it is you.

Ok. OT. But wondring.


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## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

ScottMay said:


> I have no idea whether the Bulls' strength and conditioning coaches are the best, the worst, or somewhere in between. My point is that even if they are the best, I doubt very much that they are head-and-shoulders better than everyone else, and that Sweetney has been down this road before.


It is certainly all up to Sweetney. That cannot be disputed. However, a little motivation doesn't hurt and I suspect that being teamed up with guys like Hinrich, Gordon and Deng who evidently lived in the Gym this past summer, and having a coach like Skiles won't hurt his chances of finding his inner, slimmer self. 

Anyway, his bulk is an asset. I don't want to see him slim down too much.


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

Soulful Sides said:


> Is that you in the picture under your name?
> 
> Does the new NBA dress code make you like the players more now? All the editorials say it was done for you. I'm not calling you old though. I do not even know if it is you.
> 
> Ok. OT. But wondring.


The man in my avatar is Dr. Barry Maron, the doctor who wanted to have Eddy Curry take the DNA test.

If I had to guess, he's probably a huge fan of the dress code.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

I'm a pretty skinny guy, so I've never known what it's like to have a real weight problem. From what I've seen, including from Curry, an individual can get real serious about losing the weight, but they tend to yo-yo back and forth. If Sweets manages to lose weight, he may gain it back.

He's a talented dude though. He definitely has a series of effective post moves that work with a high level of consistency over taller NBA players. But the most impressive thing for me is the rebounding. 13 rebounds in 19 minutes against the Spurs? Now that's pretty amazing.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

Ron Cey said:


> It is certainly all up to Sweetney. That cannot be disputed. However, a little motivation doesn't hurt and I suspect that being teamed up with guys like Hinrich, Gordon and Deng who evidently lived in the Gym this past summer, and having a coach like Skiles won't hurt his chances of finding his inner, slimmer self.


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## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

TomBoerwinkle#1 said:


>


Now there's an idea . . . .


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## bullsville (Jan 23, 2005)

No, I think players save the "ephedra" card for a contract year...

Oh, and 
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to TomBoerwinkle#1 again.


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## jbulls (Aug 31, 2005)

Soulful Sides said:


> Is that youth? I think if you go back over a lot of NBA players faces during the 22-26 years of age you will see big changes.


Doubt it. That picture is a total anomaly. Sweetney's looked fat before and after it was taken.


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## jbulls (Aug 31, 2005)

ScottMay said:


> A staple of Knicks' broadcasts from the last half of the 2004-2005 season was a bewildered Clyde Frazier wondering aloud how it was biologically possible for Sweetney to be packing on so much weight during an NBA season.
> 
> I don't doubt that Skiles runs a much tighter ship than any of the coaches Sweetney played for in New York, but unless Sweetney moves in with Skiles and Susan Powter and has his thyroid operated on, I'm not sure it'll make much difference.


In fairness, Frazier seems bewildered by a lot of stuff.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

Sweetney with the game-winning free throws last night. I think it's time I declare my unbridled love for the guy. He was clutch.


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## JRose5 (May 4, 2003)

yodurk said:


> Sweetney with the game-winning free throws last night. I think it's time I declare my unbridled love for the guy. He was clutch.



Not to mention he was a rebounding machine all throughout the 4th, he had some pretty big grabs there.


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## bullsville (Jan 23, 2005)

Sweets- 20.5 min, 10.8 pts, 7.8 reb, .533 FG, .786 FT, 1.0 blk, 0.75 stl, 0.8 ast, 1.5 TO, 3.0 PF

Curry- 26.3 min, 14.0 pts, 6.3 reb, .439 FG, .606 FT, 1.0 blk, 0.25 stl, 0.3 ast, 3.75 TO, 3.8 PF

I don't know if I *love* Sweetney or not, but I sure am developing quite the crush on him.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Lest we not forget...

Wasn't Pax sorta angry about this trade?


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

DaBullz said:


> Lest we not forget...
> 
> Wasn't Pax sorta angry about this trade?


Yep.

Sweets earned his money last night though, no doubt about it.


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## Soulful Sides (Oct 10, 2005)

DaBullz said:


> Lest we not forget...
> 
> Wasn't Pax sorta angry about this trade?


Yeah...I think he wanted Frye or Ariza too.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Mikedc said:


> Yep.
> 
> Sweets earned his money last night though, no doubt about it.


For the record, I was always happy we got Sweetney and thought he'd give us stats like Curry did.


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## badfish (Feb 4, 2003)

DaBullz said:


> Lest we not forget...
> 
> Wasn't Pax sorta angry about this trade?


Do you think he was angry he got ripped off? I don't.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

badfish said:


> Do you think he was angry he got ripped off? I don't.


He wasn't talking about how happy he was to get sweetney and the draft picks, either.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

DaBullz said:


> Lest we not forget...
> 
> Wasn't Pax sorta angry about this trade?



He wanted more than he got, and I have no problem with that. I also have no problem with Sweetney working out better than a lot of people, and perhaps Pax, expected.

So Pax moaned he wanted more...its like Rod Thorn half apologizing for drafting MJ instead of a center. Sometimes things work out.


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## Frankensteiner (Dec 29, 2004)

bullsville said:


> Sweets- 20.5 min, 10.8 pts, 7.8 reb, .533 FG, .786 FT, 1.0 blk, 0.75 stl, 0.8 ast, 1.5 TO, 3.0 PF
> 
> Curry- 26.3 min, 14.0 pts, 6.3 reb, .439 FG, .606 FT, 1.0 blk, 0.25 stl, 0.3 ast, 3.75 TO, 3.8 PF
> 
> I don't know if I *love* Sweetney or not, but I sure am developing quite the crush on him.


Before the season started I pretty much said Sweetney and Curry are the same player. Curry is a better finisher around the basket but that's about his only improvement on Sweetney.


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## SausageKingofChicago (Feb 14, 2005)

DaBullz said:


> For the record, I was always happy we got Sweetney and thought he'd give us stats like Curry did.


As did I when I initially broke it down that he had to be a principal in any trade for Eddy Curry

But it was beyond just numbers I thought , and still think , Sweetney is the better player. 

No lazy azzed reach in or tug fouls last night

Sweetney is more fundamenatlly rounded and clearly ( at least to me ) has a much better mental grasp on the game than Eddy

No hate on Eddy ..just an honest opinion


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## bullet (Jul 1, 2003)

DaBullz said:


> He wasn't talking about how happy he was to get sweetney and the draft picks, either.


as I see it , he was angry about sending AD , as reported it was the last thing they talked about. AD represents a lot of what Pax is always looking for , was our vet leader , and Pax just hated having to go to him with this (apparently no agreement about cutting AD by Zeke)


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

SausageKingofChicago said:


> As did I when I initially broke it down that he had to be a principal in any trade for Eddy Curry
> 
> But it was beyond just numbers I thought , and still think , Sweetney is the better player.
> 
> ...


I think we were in violent agreement when the trade was still being discussed.

I don't care if the guy is "fat" if he can play as big as he has for us since day 1.


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## Machinehead (Jun 12, 2002)

DaBullz said:


> I think we were in violent agreement when the trade was still being discussed.
> 
> I don't care if the guy is "fat" if he can play as big as he has for us since day 1.


Yeah he still needs some work to *round* out some of his *shortcomings* ( no pun intended ) but the boy has a *solid* fundamental base 

I think he'll end up being phat as he gets better integrated/coached into our system


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## jbulls (Aug 31, 2005)

Over 39 minutes in the last two games Sweetney has 19 points, 23 rebounds and.....drumroll.....only 2 fouls!

If Skiles keeps him on the stationary bike and away from McDonald's we could really have something here.


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## Soulful Sides (Oct 10, 2005)

jbulls said:


> Over 39 minutes in the last two games Sweetney has 19 points, 23 rebounds and.....drumroll.....only 2 fouls!
> 
> If Skiles keeps him on the stationary bike and away from McDonald's we could really have something here.


Is weight loss the only thing seperating him from more effectiveness?


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## step (Sep 19, 2005)

> Is weight loss the only thing seperating him from more effectiveness?


Its moreso his conditioning


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

Soulful Sides said:


> Is weight loss the only thing seperating him from more effectiveness?


 I actually think its the opposite.

Weight loss may be the only thing sperating Sweetney from being less effective.

I've only seen a couple of games but, it looks to me like Sweetney may be a walking conundrum. Sweets needs his bulk to be effective. He throws his body around to clear the space needed to draw boards and to execute in the post. At the same time his bulk makes him ineffective. He can't move his feet on defense, and picks up quick fouls. I hope I'm wrong -- and I've been very wrong before -- but, Sweetney may never be more then a 20 minute per game gem.


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## jbulls (Aug 31, 2005)

such sweet thunder said:


> I actually think its the opposite.
> 
> Weight loss may be the only thing sperating Sweetney from being less effective.
> 
> I've only seen a couple of games but, it looks to me like Sweetney may be a walking conundrum. Sweets needs his bulk to be effective. He throws his body around to clear the space needed to draw boards and to execute in the post. At the same time his bulk makes him ineffective. He can't move his feet on defense, and picks up quick fouls. I hope I'm wrong -- and I've been very wrong before -- but, Sweetney may never be more then a 20 minute per game gem.


It remains to be seen whether Sweetney can develop into an effective 30-35 MPG player. However, his bulk advantage is not going to be substantially compromised by losing a few. He could lose 20 and still be 6'8'' and at least 260. We're not even close to Sweetney's weight loss yielding diminishing returns.


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## bullet (Jul 1, 2003)

bullet said:


> I actually think has a very good chance to turn things around for him , or more so upgrade his status with increased pt.
> 
> Sweets is actually our best paint scorer as for now. He's not as good as Eddy in the post offense but also shoots with very high fg% (about the same as Ed). He's a way better rebounder than Ed and one of the top offensive rebounders in the league last season.
> Yes , both he and Eddy have overweight issues , but from what I read Sweets has great work Ethic , he might go all over this chance and get in his best shape (hopefully).
> ...


So far Sweets numbers *per 30 * minutes:

15.8 ppg 11.4 rpg

not bad at all.


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

The Bulls need to figure out a way to get "Sweets" more playing time.

After watching the game against Portland tonight, the answer's obvious (but not new -- many of you have been championing this idea since "Sweets" was traded here): make him our starting center.

Not every center in the league is as offensively inept as Theo Ratliff, "Sweets's" primary match-up tonight. But it's the weakest overall position in the NBA, and "Sweets" won't run into foul trouble there as much as he would at the 4. It also has the added benefit of getting Chandler back to what appears to be his strongest position, the 4.

"Sweets" deserves to start. But if he starts at the 4, the superior offensive talent at that position league-wide is going to get him in foul trouble. Match him up with 5s, though, and we should be able to get the most out of him.


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## ndistops (Oct 31, 2005)

bullet said:


> So far Sweets numbers *per 30 * minutes:
> 
> 15.8 ppg 11.4 rpg
> 
> not bad at all.


Not bad at all...that's pretty much inhuman. He needs to start and play substantial minutes.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

ScottMay said:


> The Bulls need to figure out a way to get "Sweets" more playing time.
> 
> After watching the game against Portland tonight, the answer's obvious (but not new -- many of you have been championing this idea since "Sweets" was traded here): make him our starting center.
> 
> ...


why not? 

I was thinking t/o the game that Tyson is not a center. His strength is pf and help defense. 

This might work!


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

The portland announcers were talking about him like he's another in the Georgetown line of centers.

It's nice to see scottie (May, that is) coming around on him. He's proving his worth on the court.

Now I wonder if the other scottie (Skiles, that is) is coming around on him, too.

I don't notice an "unbridled love for songaila" thread...


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

DaBullz said:


> The portland announcers were talking about him like he's another in the Georgetown line of centers.
> 
> It's nice to see scottie (May, that is) coming around on him. He's proving his worth on the court.
> 
> ...


I wouldn't say I'm necessarily coming around on Sweetney. It's more that I'm coming around to MikeDC's theory that it's pretty goddamn vital for the team not to take too big of a step backward this year.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

ScottMay said:


> I wouldn't say I'm necessarily coming around on Sweetney. It's more that I'm coming around to MikeDC's theory that it's pretty goddamn vital for the team not to take too big of a step backward this year.


You've come a long way on the guy. From "he's too fat, can't play D, and fouls too much" to "we've got to get him more PT"

I'm with you on the step backward this year, but it can be with a purpose.


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

DaBullz said:


> You've come a long way on the guy. From "he's too fat, can't play D, and fouls too much" to "we've got to get him more PT"
> 
> I'm with you on the step backward this year, but it can be with a purpose.


He is too fat, he can't play D, and he does foul too much. I still maintain that if we made him our starting power forward, he'd have games where he'd foul out in 12-15 minutes.

But he can score and snag offensive rebounds with the best of them, and he's probably our best frontline player (as sad as that is). 

It's simply fighting the square peg/round hole philosophy you talked about in your other Skiles thread -- let's play our best players for the maximum number of minutes at the positions best-suited for them and in match-ups where they stand the highest chance of success. Sweetney would make a good starting center. Chandler is a good starting PF. Songalia's a good backup PF. Gordon and Deng should never play fewer than 36 minutes a game unless they are injured or in foul trouble. And so on.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

truebluefan said:


> why not?
> 
> I was thinking t/o the game that Tyson is not a center. His strength is pf and help defense.
> 
> This might work!


Trust me,the last thin you want is Sweets playing center until he gets a solid mid range game..NY played him there and he simply could not get off shots against the big boys..hes a power foward and if he ever hits the weight room and conditions,he will be a monster


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

truth said:


> Trust me,the last thin you want is Sweets playing center until he gets a solid mid range game..NY played him there and he simply could not get off shots against the big boys..hes a power foward and if he ever hits the weight room and conditions,he will be a monster


He scored easily last night on both Pryzbilla and Theo Ratliff. He can get his shot off against anyone (although he did get stuffed on a very important shot late . . . but I wouldn't run much crunch-time offense through "Sweets" anyway).


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## TripleDouble (Jul 26, 2002)

ScottMay said:


> I wouldn't say I'm necessarily coming around on Sweetney. It's more that I'm coming around to MikeDC's theory that it's pretty goddamn vital for the team not to take too big of a step backward this year.


Not to be combative, but wouldn't you say that a player must have shown quite a bit for you to consider them vital to the team's success?


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

TripleDouble said:


> Not to be combative, but wouldn't you say that a player must have shown quite a bit for you to consider them vital to the team's success?


Fine. Let's say that for the purposes of winning as many games as possible in 2005-2006, I've come around on "Sweets."

Long-term, though, I remainly staunchly unconvinced that "Sweets" fits the PaxSkiles mold. Even if he can somehow -- miraculously -- stay out of foul trouble, he's a terrible defender and a subpar defensive rebounder. A team that features Chandler/"Sweets" as its primary F/C combination is not going to win many playoff series, imo.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

Sweets had a good game, for sure. I think he had a relatively good matchup with Randolph, who's a very comparable player especially after the microfracture surgery that's robbed him of some of his athleticism.

So far, I don't have a real complaint about not starting Sweetney, but it seems like we've had the opportunity to play him more than we actually have. For every game like this, he's also had a game where he's shown why he shouldn't be starting. Even tonight he had 5 fouls in 26 minutes, so I'm not sure we can make the case starting him would have been a good idea. Suppose he picked up a quick 3 and then sat on the bench for the rest of the half. Even if he gave us a bit more offense to start, we would have had less later.

I don't really care if he starts or not. But milking him for the maximum amount of minutes we can get ought to be priority #1. Last night's 26 minutes was good given his foul trouble, but we need to get him closer to 30 mpg or so rather than the 20 mpg or so he's been averaging so far. 

Thing is, *it's not fouling that kept him on the bench* against the Warriors in our set with them. He got 20 minutes the first game and 17 in the second game. And the Warriors presented the perfect matchup for him. Defensively we could play him against Foyle and Chandler against Murphy. Foyle's no threat and he's not that huge. It made perfect sense.... and it didn't happen.

What's up with that? I don't get it.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

The stats may show that Sweetney is foul prone, but I don't place much faith in the stats. If you know you're playing 20 minutes and have 6 fouls to give, you play a certain way. If you know you have to stay on the court for 36 minutes, you play differently.

I don't remember any of Sweetney's fouls being stupid ones.


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

DaBullz said:


> The stats may show that Sweetney is foul prone, but I don't place much faith in the stats. If you know you're playing 20 minutes and have 6 fouls to give, you play a certain way. If you know you have to stay on the court for 36 minutes, you play differently.
> 
> I don't remember any of Sweetney's fouls being stupid ones.


He does like to reach in on guards driving to the basket, much like Tyson has done so far this season. 

While not stupid, it shows that you were either late in rotating or missed your assignment and are trying to make up for it by not getting totally beat. A late rotation can be corrected through experience (and conditioning in Sweetney's case). Simply missing the play and getting beat shows poor defensive basketball IQ. I think Tyson and Sweetney both are more towards the step slow end to start this season. I don't think Sweetney will ever be a stellar defender, but he certainly has the potential to be average to decent.

Outside of the San Antonio game, I think Chandler's defense has been pretty god-awful. He is playing reactionary instead of instinctively i.e. he is thinking too much out there. Opposing teams slashers aren't afraid to take it to the rim like last year when Tyson would alter shot after shot. Tyson needs to step his game before we are playing winning ball again.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Rhyder said:


> He does like to reach in on guards driving to the basket, much like Tyson has done so far this season.
> 
> While not stupid, it shows that you were either late in rotating or missed your assignment and are trying to make up for it by not getting totally beat. A late rotation can be corrected through experience (and conditioning in Sweetney's case). Simply missing the play and getting beat shows poor defensive basketball IQ. I think Tyson and Sweetney both are more towards the step slow end to start this season. I don't think Sweetney will ever be a stellar defender, but he certainly has the potential to be average to decent.
> 
> Outside of the San Antonio game, I think Chandler's defense has been pretty god-awful. He is playing reactionary instead of instinctively i.e. he is thinking too much out there. Opposing teams slashers aren't afraid to take it to the rim like last year when Tyson would alter shot after shot. Tyson needs to step his game before we are playing winning ball again.


While many people seem to think Chandler is some sort of Ben Wallace type of defender, I've never believed it. I believe my own eyes, thank you very much. He was just darn effective when there was another big (AD/Curry) on the court with him at the same time... Chandler's not getting much help from anyone else at the PF or C position while he's out there, and I don't remember he and Sweetney playing much at the same time (much like Curry and Chandler last season).


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## chifaninca (May 28, 2002)

To me, the sad truth is He's Our Best Post Player Period right now! 


Chandler is Chandler, always flashes, never consistency. Othella is solid as Sweetney, but not the upside. Allen is a warm body that's it. Songalia has to be the biggest disappointement so far.


Right now, Sweetney is the man..........Chandler needs to pick it up big time and justify his contract.


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## bullsville (Jan 23, 2005)

So after 4 years of playing next to Eddy and 2 years of playing next to Eddy and AD, nobody expects a little adjustment period for Tyson? [SARCASM]After all, he and Sweets have now played together for about 2 months, I can't believe they aren't Duncan and Robinson yet...[/SARCASM]


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## SausageKingofChicago (Feb 14, 2005)

Eddy Curry had 5 fouls in 25 something minutes last night too

He too has had conditioning problems to start every season he's had in the NBA 

He too would get into early foul trouble that would put us on the back foot

When he fired ..and could stay out of foul trouble..we had a more than decent chance of winning

There is a similar cause and effect with Mike Sweetney too

These players are really not too dissimilar in effectiveness/productivity when it boils down to it

Eddy is taller and more "cat quick" which is kind of wasted and I think he is the inferior basketball IQ to Sweetney


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## bullet (Jul 1, 2003)

as for now Sweets is *4th!!!!* in the nba in Eff per 48 - link! 

and 3rd in rp48 too. I think Skiles should find him lots of more PT , his stats per 35 minutes:

19.3 pp35
13 rp35
1.2 bp35

let him start , especially in a team struggling on offense I say...


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## narek (Jul 29, 2005)

I think the beat writers have Sweeetney love:



> SEATTLE — Portland has not one but two of the NBA’s shot-block leaders in 7-foot-1 Joel Przybilla and 6-10 Theo Ratliff.
> 
> Their presence bothered many of the Bulls’ shooters on Wednesday, but not Michael Sweetney, who scored 24 points in 26 minutes and hit 10 of 15 attempts from the field.
> 
> ...


http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/bulls.asp?id=122887


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