# Indiana rules!



## jvanbusk (Jun 9, 2002)

Tinsley > Billups

Artest > Hamilton

Harrington > Prince

O'Neal > Wallace

Pollard > Memo

Bender > Darko

Carlisle > Brown

:yes: 




Sorry guys, strange mood tonight. Yankees winning didn't help so I guess I'm trying to blow off some steam through humorous means. Absolutely no point to this thread. I think I will label it myself as the "Worst thread ever".


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## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

It'll be alright man... keep ya head up. :greatjob:


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## Lope31 (Jun 11, 2002)

They've brainwashed him.


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## PistonFAN81 (May 30, 2003)

This must be a joke to even say that INDIANA RULES? HA


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## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

I'll add to the thread...

Kelvin Cato = Ben Wallace

Per 48 minutes:

Kelvin Cato > Ben Wallace...

True story.


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## jvanbusk (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>DetBNyce</b>!
> I'll add to the thread...
> 
> Kelvin Cato = Ben Wallace
> ...


I remember that! LOL


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## Lope31 (Jun 11, 2002)

LMAO Crazy Rockets fans! I wish we had Kelvin CAto, but I wouldn't give up Ben for him. Maybe If they accepted to take Darko and Rip off our hands too.

We get: Kelvin "The Monster" Cato
For: Ben "Suck-face" Wallace, Darko "Bust" Milicic and Rip "Horrible" Hamilton.


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## Brian. (Jul 11, 2002)

Well Jvanbusk called it the pacers fans are already at it

http://basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=57308&perpage=15&pagenumber=1


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## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Brian</b>!
> Well Jvanbusk called it the pacers fans are already at it
> 
> http://basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=57308&perpage=15&pagenumber=1


:laugh: This is truly amazing, the Pistons beat this team over and over, and they come up with this ahh nevermind...

Pollard better than Elden Campbell...

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

and I only read the first couple of posts...


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## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

One thing I do find funny in a serious way is how they refuse to give Kevin O'neill credit for the D, but can give Carlisle credit for the Pacers going to the Finals. It's the same thing.


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## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>jvanbusk</b>!
> Tinsley > Billups
> 
> Artest > Hamilton
> ...


You almost hit it dead on:

Wallace Vs. Jermaine Jermaine
Campbell Vs. Pollard Pollard
Milicic Vs. Bender Bender
Williamson Vs. Harrington Harrington
Okur Vs. Artest Artest
Rebraca Vs. Croshere Croshere

Then Indiana has Foster

This was actually posted in that same thread.


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## jvanbusk (Jun 9, 2002)

I'm done with that thread. We must understand who we are dealing with. They are going to say that Bender is better than Milicic, which is absolutely ridiculous and any fan outside of Indiana will tell you that. I also remember that guy proclaiming Jamaal Tinsley as a top 10 point guard, and manipulating statistical information as his basis that Tinsley is better than Billups. But, by his 'logic' Tinsley would also be better than Marbury and Nash.


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## KingsChamp03 (Oct 22, 2003)

I think Scott Polard isis alot better. He gets alot of rebounds, but not as much as "Big Ben". I think he needs to be starting.


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## jvanbusk (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>KingsChamp03</b>!
> I think Scott Polard isis alot better. He gets alot of rebounds, but not as much as "Big Ben". I think he needs to be starting.


Pollard is better than who? If you are talking about Jeff Foster, than I agree. But, if you are talking about Elden Campbell or Brad Miller I strongly disagree.


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## Obi-Wan Nowitzki (Jun 2, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>DetBNyce</b>!
> Pollard better than Elden Campbell...


That's yet to be seen... Either one of them could blow the other out of the water this year. Pollard was never above average, but he's young and Campbell's career is coming to a close... Elden is elder... He's headed into his 16th season, so you never know.

Although I'm from Indiana, I am NOT a Pacer fan, nor have I ever been. I can't stand them. The Mavs are my favorite team, as you can see by the name and the Pistons come in a distant second...


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## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>MavsFaN02</b>!
> 
> 
> That's yet to be seen... Either one of them could blow the other out of the water this year. Pollard was never above average, but he's young and Campbell's career is coming to a close... Elden is elder... He's headed into his 16th season, so you never know.
> ...


Pollard is not better than Elden Campbell... he may play more minutes because of the teams. But Pollard is not better than Campbell. I would say this even if I wasn't a Pistons fan.


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## jvanbusk (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>DetBNyce</b>!
> 
> 
> Pollard is not better than Elden Campbell... he may play more minutes because of the teams. But Pollard is not better than Campbell. I would say this even if I wasn't a Pistons fan.


I agree. I've seen Pollard play first hand many times. He was trash then and he's trash now.


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## Darko Sucko (Oct 27, 2003)

> Tinsley > Billups


I agree with this. Billups is the better scorer, however Tinsley is the better passer, playmaker, rebounder, and defender andjust overall the better point guard by far. Billupsis an average shooting guard in a point guards body. This guy starting just goes to show how weak Detroit is at the point guard position.



> Artest > Hamilton


Not doubt about it. No GM in the league would take Hamilton over Artest. Artest is the superior offensive player, superior rebounder, superior passer, and is about 10.6 million light years ahead of Hamilton defensively. Artest is the one player in the league who can shut down any guard or foward in the league. He's destroyed TMac and Kobe in the past and I believe if Artest guarded Hamilton every night, Rip would average 6 ppg on 12% shooting. No disrespect to Ben Wallace, but theres no doubt Artest is hands down the best defender in the league. Artest is to defense what Barry Bonds is to home runs. He could go down as the greatest defender in league history.



> Harrington > Prince


I agree here as well. Harrington was the high school playerof the year, Prince was an underacheiving player who couldnt lead the stacked Kentucky Wildcats to the Final 4. If you were to stand Harrington and Prince next to each other, it would look like a grown man standing next to a small child. Harrington is actually signifigantly bigger and stronger than Ben Wallace, and Ben is not exactly small. Al is a far superior offensive player, defensive player, and rebounder. He's also younger and has much more potential. I do think Prince will make a solid 7th man though, he has good length and a solid stroke
.


> O'Neal > Wallace


No question about this one. If O'Neal was in Bens situation, that is playing with the worst rebounding and worst ofeensive team in the league, he would average around 17 boards and 4 blocks a game. He proved that in the playoffs. Combine that with the fact that O'Neal is worlds ahead of Wallace offensively, is 5 years younger, has more potential, and is a legit Franchise Player where as Wallace is just a very good role player. I'd love to Have a rugged glorified scrub who does all the dirty like Wallace on my team, but NEVER at the cost of a legit Franchise Player.



> Pollard > Memo


Debatable. Pollard is the better rebounder and defender. Memo is the better scorer. It really depends on what your team needs most. Need scoring take Memo, need rebounding and defense take Pollard.



> Bender > Darko


Another debatable. Both are young and unproven. If Bender didnt play on a consistently contending team like the Pacers, and played on a bad team like other high school studs have, hed have way more time to show the world how great he is. Darko is reputed to have skills, however none of us has really seen him play. For all we know he could end up being the next big white stiff. Remember Jon Koncak was a top-5 pick back in the mid-80s, and he was thought to be more skilled than Darko. Overall I'd go with Bender simply because he's longer, much more athletic, and more skilled. Darko has the potential to be real good. Bender has the potential to be great.



> Carlisle > Brown


Once again debatable. Brown has the experience but Carlisle has the better winning percentage. I'd have to go with Carlisle simply because he's nearly 30 years younger than Brown. Also he's proven he can lead a non-talented team to success where as Larry Brown has never proven that. I just believe Carlisles the best, most underrated coach in the NBA whereas Browns a great coach but is majorly overrated.

Overall the Pacers are a much better (both ofeensively and defensively) team. But games are not won on paper, thats been proven. We'll just have to wait, watch, and see. We're less than 55 hours away from gametime.
Let the fun begin.


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## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Darko Sucko</b>!
> 
> I agree with this. Billups is the better scorer, however Tinsley is the better passer, playmaker, rebounder, and defender andjust overall the better point guard by far. Billupsis an average shooting guard in a point guards body. This guy starting just goes to show how weak Detroit is at the point guard position.
> 
> ...


He was being sarcastic.


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## Darko Sucko (Oct 27, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>DetBNyce</b>!
> 
> 
> He was being sarcastic.


Actually, no. I was being *realistic.*


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## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Darko Sucko</b>!
> 
> 
> Actually, no. I was being *realistic.*


No the guy you quoted was being sarcastic. He was joking...


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## Darko Sucko (Oct 27, 2003)

Was he? Wow I dont understand how you could be sarcastic and speak the truth in the same sentence. Oh well I guess thats what the Detroit smog will do to you.


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## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Darko Sucko</b>!
> Was he? Wow I dont understand how you could be sarcastic and speak the truth in the same sentence. Oh well I guess thats what the Detroit smog will do to you.


Aren't you from Detroit too?


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## Darko Sucko (Oct 27, 2003)

I wear a gas mask at all times.


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## Lope31 (Jun 11, 2002)

:laugh: 

Tinsley is not better then Chauncey Billups, no where near it. tinsley hasn't improved since the first few months of his rookie season.


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## jvanbusk (Jun 9, 2002)

I have a sneaking suspicion that this guy doesn't actually like the Pistons.


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## Brian. (Jul 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>jvanbusk</b>!
> I have a sneaking suspicion that this guy doesn't actually like the Pistons.


I have a sneaking suspicion he doesn't live in Detroit his IP traces back to Indianapolis


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## jvanbusk (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Brian</b>!
> 
> 
> I have a sneaking suspicion he doesn't live in Detroit his IP traces back to Indianapolis


I wonder who this guy is?

 

I have a good idea, after seeing that he was edited for inappropriate comments about the fires in California.

inappropriate comments + obvious like (homerism) for the Pacers = M----- H------N or that other jerk that was banned awhile ago.


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## Tactics (Mar 6, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Brian</b>!
> 
> 
> I have a sneaking suspicion he doesn't live in Detroit his IP traces back to Indianapolis


lol, I have a feeling your right, and about the comparisons, of course they are going to bias and unrealistic sometimes, fans of a team don't generally like to speak down on their team and will sometimes see them for more then they are.


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## PacersguyUSA (Sep 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>jvanbusk</b>!
> Tinsley > Billups
> 
> Artest > Hamilton
> ...


I agree with everything said except I like the Marlins, and this is one of the best threads on this board. Glad to see you're enlightened.


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## Darko Sucko (Oct 27, 2003)

Tinsley has a sophomore slump. Thats it. Most players go through it.
Chauncy went through a sophomore slump. His rookie year he averaged 1.2 ppg, his sophomore season he averaged 0.8 ppg.
See what I mean?


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## jvanbusk (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Darko Sucko</b>!
> Tinsley has a sophomore slump. Thats it. Most players go through it.
> Chauncy went through a sophomore slump. His rookie year he averaged 1.2 ppg, his sophomore season he averaged 0.8 ppg.
> See what I mean?


Wow. That's how many points per game Tinsley averages isn't it?


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## Lope31 (Jun 11, 2002)

1.2 and 0.8 are both horrible, we are talking about Chauncey now though, not in his rookie season.

Tinsley is a good player, in my opinion, but he hasn't shown he could get anybetter then he was in his rookie year. Chauncey has improved greatly to the point that he is better then Tinsley. 

Think of it this way. If Ben Wallace and Jermaine O'Neal cancel each other out in effect, and Rip and Artest do the same then it will come down to the third options. Chauncey vs Tinsley and whichever team has a more succesful season determines the better player. 

The Pacers are not as good as the Pistons, they weren't last year, and took a big hit in losing Brad Miller. Don't fool yourselves, the Pacers have gotten worse, not better, by anymeans.


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## PistonFAN81 (May 30, 2003)

You know its funny when I read Darkosuckos posts and I think that I have not laughed that much in my entire life. I just wanted to thank you for letting me laugh this hard!! To even think for a minute on some of those player comparisons would be a waste of time.......


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## Darko Sucko (Oct 27, 2003)

But Tinsleys not suppose to score, he's not one of the Pacers top-5 scoring options. He does what he's suppose to do, he gets the ball to his teammates so they can score. The Pacers top-3 scorers are Jermaine who's capable of averaging 25 a night, Artest whos capable of 20 and has the best D in the league, and Reggie who can still average 20 a game. Not to mention Al Harrington off the bench who has the potentail to average 25 a game.
Thats just too much for the Pistons to handle.


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## MLKG (Aug 25, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Darko Sucko</b>!
> Tinsley has a sophomore slump. Thats it. Most players go through it.
> Chauncy went through a sophomore slump. His rookie year he averaged 1.2 ppg, his sophomore season he averaged 0.8 ppg.
> See what I mean?


HAHAHA, yeah right. Chauncey averaged 11.2 ppg his rookie year and 13.9 ppg his sophmore year. I have no idea where you got those numbers from.

Ron Artest plays good defense, but he is in no way the best defender in the league. It is extremely laughable that earlier you called him possibly the best defensive player of all time.

If Ron Artest is the best defender in the league then that must make Paul Pierce Jesus considering he dropped 40, 37, and 27 on him last year in the playoffs.


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## TLR (May 28, 2003)

Pierce dropped those points on Al Harrington. It would be very hard to find a better 1 on 1 defender in this league than Ron artest. 

Ignore that dip**** Marvin Harrison. 

I have respect for Pistons fans. I have respect for the Pistons team. Just because I tihnk highly of my team, doesn't mean I have to bring other teams down to feel better about myself or my team. I'm a fan. Your a fan. We'll leave it at that.


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## T.G.W.G.B.A (Oct 28, 2003)

TLR, why call other people names? Are you that nerdy where you have to call other people names? I don't know this Marvin Harrison fella, but I'm sure he's a cool guy. You shouldn't just go around coming him names.
And Pierce may have scored those points, but half of them came from the line on bogus "phantom" calls. Oh, he also shot under 37% for the series which means he had to shot A LOT to get those points.
Artest = Best Defender In The NBA
**edited** don't bother coming back here with that crap.


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## TLR (May 28, 2003)

Yeah, I'm so "nerdy" that I have been banned 100 times and told to leave yet I still keep coming back to a place where I am not welcome and getting banned again. Oh wait, that is your life story.


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## PacersguyUSA (Sep 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>KABI</b>!
> 1.2 and 0.8 are both horrible, we are talking about Chauncey now though, not in his rookie season.
> 
> Tinsley is a good player, in my opinion, but he hasn't shown he could get anybetter then he was in his rookie year. Chauncey has improved greatly to the point that he is better then Tinsley.
> ...


My comments:

1. Tinsley is better than Billups. I already proved this a topic a little while back on the Pacers board. Go look it up if you want.

2. Ben Wallace and Jermaine O'neal do not cancel each other out. Jermaine is better.

3. I like Rip so I'll give ya that.

4. Tinsley is not our 3rd option, give that to Harrington or Miller

5. I think we were better then the Pistons last year, but off court adversity cost us big. Of course, I can't prove this so it's just my opinion.

6. Brad and Mercer WERE a big loss, but a more importantly a rejuvinated Reggie will make up for that.

Those are my comments, take them or leave them.


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## Brian. (Jul 11, 2002)

Tinsley is obviously a great player  he might lose his starting job to kenny anderson.

http://www.indystar.com/print/articles/6/087191-4696-039.html



> That's why Carlisle appears to be leaning toward starting Kenny Anderson ahead of incumbent Jamaal Tinsley at point guard.


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## jvanbusk (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Brian</b>!
> Tinsley is obviously a great player  he might lose his starting job to kenny anderson.
> 
> http://www.indystar.com/print/articles/6/087191-4696-039.html


Don't forget how solid Kenny Anderson is, he was traded for the great Vin Baker.


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## MLKG (Aug 25, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>PacersguyUSA</b>!
> 
> 1. Tinsley is better than Billups. I already proved this a topic a little while back on the Pacers board. Go look it up if you want.


I would REALLY like to read how you PROVED this. Unfortunately I couldn't find it, help me out if you will.


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## jvanbusk (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mike luvs KG</b>!
> 
> 
> I would REALLY like to read how you PROVED this. Unfortunately I couldn't find it, help me out if you will.


Just wait until you see this logic.  
I couldn't find it earlier either, but if I remember correctly it was pretty ridiculous.


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## Lope31 (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>PacersguyUSA</b>!
> 
> 
> My comments:
> ...


1. NO WAY
2. I DISAGREE
3. IF I HAD TO GIVE YOU ONE OF THESE MATCHUPS, THIS WOULD BE IT
4. OKAY THATS FINE
5. OPINIONS ARE FINE
6. I DONT THINK THEY WILL.


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## jvanbusk (Jun 9, 2002)

Don't you know, Tinsley averages .04 bpg more than Billups so therefore the 10 more points per game that Billups scores doesn't matter?

Before you go researching these numbers, I made them up. But, this is the logic if I remember correctly. Took 5 statistical categories and whoever was better in 3 out of 5 or more of them was therefore entitled the better player.


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## bananas (Apr 20, 2003)

I would really like to know how Tinsley is better than Billups. The only edge I would give Tinsley is creating for others (via passing and penetrating) but that's about it. He was a nice pick up later on in the draft but the way Pacer fans and others overate him is plain silly.

As far as comparing the teams go... I wouldn't rate the Pacers over Detroit at any position;

PG- Chauncey over Tinsley, this has already been debated enough.

SG- Hamilton and Artest are equal, both are very important members of their respected teams and help out in different ways (RIP often carries the scoring load for Detroit while Artest is the Pacers glue defensively). I might even give Hamilton the edge due to Artest being a psycho. We'll see how he plays this year under a coach who supposedly does not have good relationship with his players.

SF- Prince and Harrington are on par, both are still unproven in my book. Al put up impressive numbers durring the regular season while sucking big time in the post season. While Prince did not produce throughout the season (Well, he didn't get much PT) and won acouple games in the playoffs for his team.

PF- Wallace and O'Neal, can't go wrong with either. The two players carry their respective teams and are the MVPs. We all know what both bring to the table and I think would take one or the other depending on the rest of the teams makeup.

C- Okur over Pollard. Memo does everything Pollard does but better and is younger. Okur can also be relied upon to score as the #2 or #3 option easily and possibly down the road the #1 option in the post. I like Pollard, but he should not be the starting center for a team that is fighting to be a top team in their confrence.

Bench - Atkins, Sura, Williamson, Milicic and Campbell over a combination of Anderson, Miller, Jones, Bender and Foster any day.

Indiana's lack of size is going to hurt them come playoff time, I think they will be a top four team in the East save a total breakdown mentally with Artest, O'Neal and Carslisle.


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## PacersguyUSA (Sep 1, 2002)

How do we have lack of size: Jermaine 7 ft. Bender 7ft. Brezec lol 7' 1" ft. Pollard 6' 11", Foster 6'11". Artest is big for a SG too.


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## PacersguyUSA (Sep 1, 2002)

About Tinsley vs. Billups, I can't find the topic either, so it was basically a statistical comparing, and how the player fits into their team i.e. Tinsley is better in most statistical categories and he fits with the Pacers better than Billups fits the Pistons.


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## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

Here's the thread explaining how Tinsley is better than Billups... The logic used to explain why Tinsley is better is still kind of confusing  :

http://basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=44275&highlight=tinsley+billups


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## jvanbusk (Jun 9, 2002)

Jamaal Tinsley:

PPG: 7.8
RPG: 3.6
APG: 7.5
SPG 1.71
BPG .25

Steve Nash:

PPG: 17.7
RPG: 2.9
APG: 7.3
SPG: 1.04
BPG: .1

Stephon Marbury:

PPG: 22.3
RPG: 3.2
APG: 8.1
SPG: 1.33
BPG: 0.2

Jamaal Tinsley is better than Steve Nash and Stephon Marbury. That's what I'm taking from Pacersguy's logic.


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## froggyvk (Sep 12, 2002)

When Chauncey knocks in the game winning three tonight, that'll shut them up.

Chauncey = Clutch


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## PacersguyUSA (Sep 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>jvanbusk</b>!
> Jamaal Tinsley:
> 
> PPG: 7.8
> ...


Except I also took into account how the player fits into the team. Marbury fits in very well with the suns because he is the teams leader. His game also fits in very well with the suns style. Nash fits in well in Dallas because they built the team around him, Finley, and Dirk.



> When Chauncey knocks in the game winning three tonight, that'll shut them up.
> 
> Chauncey = Clutch


Almost, but not quite.


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## PacersguyUSA (Sep 1, 2002)

I think Jvanbusk needs to renew his appreciation for Indiana in this time of sorrow. Also, isn't it funny how most of his sarcastic remarks came true?


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## froggyvk (Sep 12, 2002)

Crazy how in the KVBL when he was sucking the Pacers and I had a deal planned out to send my 2nd round pick for Jamaal Tinsley effective at the end of the season. Indiana had to keep him because he was one of the only PG they had an in Live he still had a good rating. Then he heats up and the deal is off, of course.


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## jvanbusk (Jun 9, 2002)

PacersguyUSA
11-24-2004 07:40 PM This person is on your Ignore List. To view this post click [here] 

------

Let me guess, touting Tinsley's greatness.

Or is this yet another wonderful baiting post?


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## PacersguyUSA (Sep 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>jvanbusk</b>!
> PacersguyUSA
> 11-24-2004 07:40 PM This person is on your Ignore List. To view this post click [here]
> 
> ...


Just basking your glory amigo.


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