# Pre-Season All-America Teams



## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

*First Team*
G-Raymond Felton, UNC
G-Jameer Nelson, Saint Joseph's
G-Ben Gordon, UConn
C-Ike Diougu, Arizona State
C-Emeka Okafor, UConn

*Second Team*
G-Dee Brown, Illinois
G-Ricky Paulding, Missouri
G/F-Julius Hodge, NC State
G/F-Josh Childress, Stanford
C-Arthur Johnson, Missouri

*Third Team*
G-Blake Stepp, Gonzaga
G-Marcus Moore, Washington State
G-Andre Emmett, Texas Tech
F-Wayne Simien, Kansas
C-Paul Davis, Michigan State

*National Freshman Team*
G-Mustafa Shakur, Arizona
G-Shannon Brown, Michigan State
F-Luol Deng, Duke
F-Leon Powe, California
F-Brandon Bass, LSU

*National Player of the Year* 
Emeka Okafor, UConn

*Freshman of the Year*
Leon Powe, California

I would have done an honorable mention, but there are literally too many good players around the country for me to write that whole thing.


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## ltrain99 (Apr 27, 2003)

does the gray national player of the year for Powe mean rookie? I was jsut making sure. Can a mod please delete this now?


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

It's been edited thanks.


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

newmessiah, that's just about what I'd put down. Great list.


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## Brian34Cook (Mar 26, 2003)

Nice picks.. Great to see you gave Dee some credit!!!


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## ill subliminal (Apr 3, 2003)

where's igoudala? he's freaking tight


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ill subliminal</b>!
> where's igoudala? he's freaking tight


Andre has to earn it. I don't think he is an All-American just yet. The guys that I picked all have done more than he has.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>newmessiah10</b>!
> 
> 
> Andre has to earn it. I don't think he is an All-American just yet. The guys that I picked all have done more than he has.


Guys like Paul Davis, right 

At least you only have him on the thirs team, unlike others who are ready to put him in the hall of fame after his glorius freshmen season.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>JuniorNoboa</b>!
> 
> 
> Guys like Paul Davis, right
> ...


The reason Paul Davis and Dee Brown are on the teams is because they were the leading scorers for the USA team. They are primed for breakout seasons and they will both be go-to guys.

Igoudala won't be go to guy with Stoudamire and Frye there. Those guys are will be go to players first.


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## ArizonaOwnsYA (Oct 27, 2003)

so go to guys on a contending team like frye and stoud dont cut any of your AA lists?

id like to add them but who to take off? who knows the season will show


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ArizonaOwnsYA</b>!
> so go to guys on a contending team like frye and stoud dont cut any of your AA lists?
> 
> id like to add them but who to take off? who knows the season will show


I was going to make an honorable mention list, but there are too many good players for me to even want to do it. I went with arguably the best 15 players in the Nation, but this doesn't take into account that on a team like Arizona, Frye will lead them team in scoring one game, Stoud the next, Andre, Hassan, Chris, the list goes on and on. 

Paul Davis needs to be the guy for Michigan State or they go down in the 2nd round of the tournament.


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>newmessiah10</b>!
> *First Team*
> G-Raymond Felton, UNC
> G-Jameer Nelson, Saint Joseph's
> ...


I agree with your first team 100%. The only player I think that's even negotiable on that list is Gordon. I could see a guy like Childress outperforming him this year...


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

*Re: Re: Pre-Season All-America Teams*



> Originally posted by <b>blabla97</b>!
> 
> 
> I agree with your first team 100%. The only player I think that's even negotiable on that list is Gordon. I could see a guy like Childress outperforming him this year...


Childress has enough talent to be first team over all those guys. If he has a year even close to First Team All-America status he will be a lotto pick. I hope he gained a little weight this year.


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## krob (Jul 6, 2002)

I really dont see what the big **** is about Felton... He didnt impress me last season... I was at the U of I v. UNC game last year adn both Dee Brown and Deron Williams outplayed him... He hasnt shown me ****.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>krob</b>!
> I really dont see what the big **** is about Felton... He didnt impress me last season... I was at the U of I v. UNC game last year adn both Dee Brown and Deron Williams outplayed him... He hasnt shown me ****.


You'll see once he has a real coach. 

And Deron Williams IMO is a better pro player than Dee Brown.


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

Deron Williams was one of the most underrated guards in his class. I saw him before he committed to Illinois and had to double check the ratings, as they were obviously too low (top 75-100).


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>VincentVega</b>!
> Deron Williams was one of the most underrated guards in his class. I saw him before he committed to Illinois and had to double check the ratings, as they were obviously too low (top 75-100).


He reminds me of a slower Jason Kidd. He just knows how to play the game.


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## krob (Jul 6, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>newmessiah10</b>!
> And Deron Williams IMO is a better pro player than Dee Brown.


I agree, I don't think Dee's game combined with his size translate that well to the L


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## Critic (Jun 19, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>newmessiah10</b>!
> *Third Team*
> G-Blake Stepp, Gonzaga
> G-Marcus Moore, Washington State
> ...


I think there is reasonable case for Andrew Bogut out of Utah to be pretty much assured of national freshman team status this coming season.

You have listed Paul Davis as being third team All American...
Bogut absolutely dominated Davis in every category during the world championships...including the game in which they played on each other and Australia won. Bogut's level of intensity and skill level overwhelmed the entire US frontcourt. Australia went on to win the World Championship on the back of Bogut while he averaged 26.3 ppg, 17rpg, 2.5 apg and 1.5bpg....Figures that also earned him the MVP of the tournament. Sure Davis had a good tournament as well at 17.7ppg and 8.7rpg...but even with a years experience in the Big Ten...he couldnt help lead the US to the medal rounds.

I'm not denying that Paul Davis should be a possible third team All American...but if he really is that...Andrew Bogut AT LEAST should be first team All Freshman and possibly even National Freshman of the year. I know he will have some very stiff competition in the form of Deng, Powe, Bass and Brown...but there is no way Mustafa Shakur is keeping Bogut out of this team.

In his first game for Utah...he had 21 points (on 10 for 13 shooting) and 14 rebounds. The guy will be Utah's best player this year and will surprise alot of people throughout the US. Its bold prediction...but I think Bogut will be First Team All Conference and will lead the Utes to the tourny at years end.

Rick Majerus has found himself an amazing talent here...and good luck to him and his Utes for the upcoming season.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

*Re: Re: Pre-Season All-America Teams*



> Originally posted by <b>Critic</b>!
> 
> 
> I think there is reasonable case for Andrew Bogut out of Utah to be pretty much assured of national freshman team status this coming season.
> ...


Well let him prove it over here and he will make it. I didn't have him on my list because I haven't seen him play, and he plays for Utah, which as you know get nary the exposure needed to win these kinds of awards. But if he is good for 20 and 10 then he will most likely win it. 

I would like to see him prove it over here first before I co-sign on anything.


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## Critic (Jun 19, 2003)

Man...I wasnt trying to put your selections down or anything...just giving my opinion and sharing my knowledge with you on Andrew. I have seen him play here in Australia and I also had the fortune of seeing a bunch of the All American high school talent play in the All Star game they had in Washington while I was there earlier in the year.

If you read back on my post...I said that Andrew has a reasonable case for being right up there in the pre-season All freshman/all conference figuring......and if all goes well so on and so forth.....just like the rest of the guys on your list HUH!

I appreciate your post and the discussion too. Let me know what you think


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Critic</b>!
> Man...I wasnt trying to put your selections down or anything...just giving my opinion and sharing my knowledge with you on Andrew. I have seen him play here in Australia and I also had the fortune of seeing a bunch of the All American high school talent play in the All Star game they had in Washington while I was there earlier in the year.
> 
> If you read back on my post...I said that Andrew has a reasonable case for being right up there in the pre-season All freshman/all conference figuring......and if all goes well so on and so forth.....just like the rest of the guys on your list HUH!
> ...


Your right and honestly I shouldn't have left him off. Because the reason Brown and Davis were on it was because of their play during the summer. I won't edit it, but I will say that Bogut has a good chance to be a 2nd team All-American and a National Freshman of the Year.

The only way he could be first team is if Utah has an outstanding year with only a few losses. But I am very eager to see him play and dominate in the paint. 

Sorry if it came off as me attacking you.


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## Critic (Jun 19, 2003)

Thanks man...

But as highly as I think of Andrew...I dont think he will be 1st team All American regardless of his season. What I meant was... that he will at least (unless he gets injured) be on the National All Freshman team and possibly the freshman of the year...

It would come as a HUGE surprise if he was in any of the top All American teams (1st...2nd...3rd)


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Critic</b>!
> Thanks man...
> 
> But as highly as I think of Andrew...I dont think he will be 1st team All American regardless of his season. What I meant was... that he will at least (unless he gets injured) be on the National All Freshman team and possibly the freshman of the year...
> ...


it's happened before. Shareef Abdur-Rahim was a 2nd team All-American at Cal in 1996. So it is possible.


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## BrYaNBaIlEy06 (Jul 15, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>newmessiah10</b>!
> *First Team*
> G-Raymond Felton, UNC
> G-Jameer Nelson, Saint Joseph's
> ...



That might be possibly be the worst picks i've ever seen in my life......

First Team All American has to have....

Lawrence Roberts and Timmy Bowers of Mississippi State

(What an idiot)

First team All Rookie has to have....

Gary Ervin of Mississippi State

(What a double idiot)


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## ltrain99 (Apr 27, 2003)

*Re: Re: Pre-Season All-America Teams*



> Originally posted by <b>BrYaNBaIlEy06</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You can't be serious. And if you are stop posting your supe rhomer thoughts, you're just polluting the board and upsetting all the psoters that do have common sense.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Pre-Season All-America Teams*



> Originally posted by <b>ltrain99</b>!
> You can't be serious. And if you are stop posting your supe rhomer thoughts, you're just polluting the board and upsetting all the psoters that do have common sense.


Obviously a little kid who doesn't watch college basketball but Mississippi State games. Waste of my time to even acknowledge it.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>newmessiah10</b>!
> 
> 
> it's happened before. Shareef Abdur-Rahim was a 2nd team All-American at Cal in 1996. So it is possible.


Carmelo was a second teamer as well, and with 23/10 should have been a first teamer in my biased opinion. I am sure Chris Jackson was on one of the teams at LSU.


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## BigMike (Jun 12, 2002)

I think Bogut should be on the all frosh team.


Did I already post that?


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## KJay (Sep 22, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>newmessiah10</b>!
> *First Team*
> G-Raymond Felton, UNC
> G-Jameer Nelson, Saint Joseph's
> ...


 yeah I don't disagree with alot of this. This first team and second team is really good, I do think that Warrick should have been on the third team, but the problem is who do you take off of it? No one, so he is a HM, no biggie. I am really looking forward to seeing Powe play


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## stan.6 (Oct 30, 2003)

*First "Team"*

I've always thought All American Teams should have 2 guards 2 forwards and a center. A Team usually wont have 3 guards and 2 centers on the court at the same time.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

*Re: First "Team"*



> Originally posted by <b>stan.6</b>!
> I've always thought All American Teams should have 2 guards 2 forwards and a center. A Team usually wont have 3 guards and 2 centers on the court at the same time.


5 Best Players. Not a Starting Line-Up.


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## BrianCoary (Jun 1, 2003)

i'd put Romain Sato in for Blake Stepp


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

I don't think Sato is a better player than Stepp. Maybe this year he will be. Gonzaga also has a better team than Xavier this year.


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

there is always this question as to whether you put guys on aa teams based on potential or stats.my thinking is post season aa teams are based on production and pre-season teams are based on potential,whatever.i think davis is a top 5 player in the country and that takes into consideration what he did down the stretch last year,what he did at the worlds and his improvement and potential for this year.as for bogut he has been listed as one of the top 3 frosh in the country buy a couple of pubs i've read.bottom line it doesnt matter all that much they both are going to be execellant college players this year and lottery picks if they come out.
p.s. my sources tell me that davis wasnt outplayed in his matchup with bogut at the worlds by the way.


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## Critic (Jun 19, 2003)

Well I admit...He wasnt exactly outplayed by Bogut as I said before. But the US were without doubt outplayed as a team and thats all that mattered.

Bogut

8-13 FG, 2-2 3FG, 4-4 FT, 18 Rebounds (4 OFF, 14 DEF) 22 TP, 5 Assists, 2 blocked shots, 1 steal... 38 mins on court.

Davis

10-18 FG, 1-3 3FG, 7-9 FT, 15 Rebounds (7 OFF, 8 DEF) 28 TP, 0 Assists, 1 Blocked shot, 1 steal... 30 mins on court.

I watched a tape of the game and although Davis put up the numbers on the score sheet...Bogut had his way with him for most of the game...maybe not outplayed but Bogut always seemed to have the upper hand. Boguts dominance could only be seen by the true students of the game. Things that arent shown on the scoresheet include: the way a player sets a screen, the way a player works his way around the court to get open and create space for his team mates to do the same, the sheer determination to control the defensive glass whether it be actually grabbing the rebound or boxing players out so a team mate can get it. Bogut did all of these things and more during this game...the things he does EVERY game. 

His basketball fundamentals are almost without peer at his age. He has remarkable positioning in the post in addition to excellent footwork. His fundamentals are that good...that he seems to score all his baskets so easily...and that is precisely why he is so good!!!...He has kept it simple...he's not a flashy player...just an extremely effective hard nosed player that are few and far between these days.

Bogut is one of those sort of players who not only puts up the big numbers...but does whatever it takes for his side to win...the little 1 percenter's...and he does everything so well. He led his Australian team who although less talented individually to a fine victory. His leadership is without question and I believe he will become one of the world's finest international players within a few years.

Going back to the Paul Davis vs Andrew Bogut discussion though....I take back that Davis was outplayed individually...in fact...he battled Bogut and the Australian frontcourt admirably (was really the only american frontcourter to stand up and be counted)...but he wasnt able to lead the US to victory by the final hooter. Andrew did that...and therefore in my mind was the best player on court that day. 

I look forward to seeing the two men play again some day. Both Davis and Bogut have the makings and talent to have fine decade long professional careers.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

I hate the "he is better" because his team won by a few points type arguements. They are meaningless. Last time I checked there were 8 other players on the floor, good players at that.

I don't argue that he might be better - heck he probably is, but the winner argument it does not sit well with me.


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## NorthSideHatrik (Mar 11, 2003)

What about a Vytas Danelius on the third team? This kid is good for 15pts, 7 rebounds, and 40% on 3's.

Here's a prediction too, Wake wins the ACC again.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>NorthSideHatrik</b>!
> What about a Vytas Danelius on the third team? This kid is good for 15pts, 7 rebounds, and 40% on 3's.
> 
> Here's a prediction too, Wake wins the ACC again.


I don't think Wake wins the ACC this year, though I will admit that Danelius is on that next tier of players. He was close too. A very solid player.


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## Jockrider (Jun 25, 2003)

Bogut will be a 1st team all american this year leading the nation in FG% and rebounding taking the Utes to the final four.


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