# Grizzlies Finally Getting Their Big Man?



## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

On NBA.com's front page today, there was a report that the Grizzlies have traded Brevin Knight to the Phoenix Suns for Bo Outlaw and the 7'2" 290lb Jake Tsakalidis. Since the salaries do not match up, there will obviously be some other filler (Ryan Humphrey? Please...?)

I love this trade for the Grizzlies. We get the huge, fairly agile big guy we've been looking for (although he _has_ battled back injuries lately), not to mention a strong defender and hustler in Bo Outlaw, who can make some nice passes in the paint. The only catch is that we take on an extra year on Bo's contract, which runs until the end of the 04/05 season. 

Basically, we get our center (who is hopefully healthy) and only take on one extra year of a contract that is just slightly more than Knight's.

This makes our lineup:

Jason Williams
James Posey
Mike Miller
Pau Gasol
Jake Tsakalidis

Bench:
Earl Watson/Troy Bell
Wesley Person/Mike Dickerson (IR)
Shane Battier/Dahntay Jones (IR)
Stromile Swift/Ryan Humphrey (IR)
Lorenzen Wright/Bo Outlaw

Waived: NO ONE (yet...)! :greatjob:

Odd man out: Theron Smith

Traded as filler: Trybanski, Archibald


----------



## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

Trade's official: Brevin Knight, Cezary Trybanski, and Robert Archibald for Bo Outlaw and Jake Tsakalidis.

Changes have been made to the lineup in the first post.

I guess this means the Trybanski experiment is a wash. And as an Illini fan, I'm hoping Archibald has a chance to be on _someone's_ NBA roster.


----------



## talula (Jul 9, 2003)

Great move for the Grizzlies. We basically traded guys who would see no playing time, and we get a center that we desperately needed in return. Hopefully Tsakalidis can stay healthy. Take that doubters of Jerry West :laugh: 

And rawse, you know if Archibald doesn't make it in the NBA, he will have a stellar career overseas. :yes:

I wish Ryan Humphrey could have been included as well. Maybe the Grizzlies will just eat his contract. Theron Smith can't be waived :no:


----------



## MJG (Jun 29, 2003)

I'm still on the anti-West bandwagon, but this is a very solid deal for you guys. Trading scrubs for a legit starting center seems like a solid plan to me.


----------



## shyFX325 (Jul 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rawse</b>!
> Dahntay Jones (IR)


probably my least favorite draft pick evvvver

why are you gonna waste the 16th pick in a rather deep draft just to stash a player on IR.....   

might as well took lampe and had him sit overseas for the year while the contract situation was worked out.


----------



## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: Re: Grizzlies Finally Getting Their Big Man?*



> Originally posted by <b>shyFX325</b>!
> 
> 
> probably my least favorite draft pick evvvver
> ...


The Dahntay Jones pick (which was actually #20, but just the same...) is probably my worst pick ever, as well, at least for last year. It kills me that my team is the one that made it. I wanted to kill West for that pick, combined with the Celtics trade and Troy Bell at #16. I wanted to kill the man.

I was wanting Cabarkapa (THE GUY EVERYONE'S RAVING OVER!) at #13, and Perkins at #27. We did pick Perkins, but then traded him away of course. Because that's just my luck. Well, actually, once Lampe fell down to the 20's, EVERYONE wanted their team to pick him, so I guess I wanted Lampe at #27 during the draft.

Jones is IR material, especially as stacked as we are at the 2/3.


----------



## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Grizzlies Finally Getting Their Big Man?*



> Originally posted by <b>rawse</b>!
> 
> 
> The Dahntay Jones pick (which was actually #20, but just the same...) is probably my worst pick ever, as well, at least for last year. It kills me that my team is the one that made it. I wanted to kill West for that pick, combined with the Celtics trade and Troy Bell at #16. I wanted to kill the man.
> ...


Ah the pain of that draft for you. That would have been a hell of a draft Zarko and Lampe.


----------



## grizzfan (Jun 25, 2002)

This is a great trade for the grizzlies.
Does anybody know the length of contracts for both Outlaw and Tsakalidis?
Also, what is the status of Theron Smith's contract? Is it guaranteed or can he be waived?


----------



## The_Franchise (Mar 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>grizzfan</b>!
> This is a great trade for the grizzlies.
> Does anybody know the length of contracts for both Outlaw and Tsakalidis?
> Also, what is the status of Theron Smith's contract? Is it guaranteed or can he be waived?


Bo Outlaw's contract last for 2 more years and is around $5.5 per year averaged out. Tsakalidis has a qualifying offer of $2.3 million next year, one he is likely to pick up.

I believe Smith has an unguaranteed contract so he can possibly be cut after training camps, same goes for Shelton Jones, Archibald, O'Kelley and Richard Jeter.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

What were the Suns thinking? Im a huge Big Jake fan. Nice pickup by the Griz.


----------



## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>grizzfan</b>!
> This is a great trade for the grizzlies.
> Does anybody know the length of contracts for both Outlaw and Tsakalidis?
> Also, what is the status of Theron Smith's contract? Is it guaranteed or can he be waived?


Big Jake's contract is worth about $1.6 mil this season, and after that he's a RFA.

Bo Outlaw's goes one year after this season (so just the 04/05 season). His salary is a shade under $6 mil this season and $5.3 mil _next_ season. Bo's got a pretty curious deal, as I rarely see contracts DEvalue as they get longer. Bo's getting almost 700K LESS next year.

Theron Smith, I believe, HAS been signed to the minimum ($366, 931). I could be wrong, though.


----------



## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

excellent. finally the grizzlies appear complete for playoff contention. Jake isn't the best center but he'll do for 20 minutes. the grizz' four man frontcourt rotation looks formidable with pau, stro, wright, and jake. 

think stro has worked hard enough to get the starting center position? i sure hope so. would west be ballsy enough to trade gooden (he might be regretting that move after picking up posey) if he wasn't even going to start swift?


----------



## talula (Jul 9, 2003)

*Grizzlies acquire two from Suns*

_Grizzlies forward Pau Gasol spoke just two days ago about how nice it would be to play next to someone who dwarfs him. 

The 7-foot Spaniard even had in mind the measurements for his perfect center. 

"Seven-two," Gasol said, "and, um, about 270. . . . Just somebody big, and he doesn't have to be a star." 

Gasol got his wish Tuesday when the Grizzlies acquired center Jake Tsakalidis and forward Bo Outlaw from Phoenix in exchange for guard Brevin Knight, forward Robert Archibald and center Cezary Trybanski. 

Outlaw brings athleticism and a high-energy style that fit coach Hubie Brown's system. 

Tsakalidis (7-2, 290) adds bulk and strength that the undersized Grizzlies have tried to secure all summer. 

"We thought this was a chance to get someone big and strong with potential," Grizzlies president Jerry West said of Tsakalidis. "He takes up so much space. He's a big guy. When we're playing these behemoths, he can play effectively against them." 

The Suns' reason for doing the deal mainly had to do with salary-cap and luxury tax implications. Knight and Archibald are in the last year of their deals while Trybanski has just two seasons remaining. 

In Outlaw, 32, the Grizzlies add $12 million over two years to their payroll. But the Grizzlies' motivation hardly hinged on dollars. They were one of the smallest teams in the league until consummating the deal. 

Outlaw, 6-8, is a 10-year veteran with the reputation of playing solid defense and rebounding with strength from both forward positions. Outlaw came off the bench and tore into the Grizzlies in two of their four meetings last season. 

He amassed eight rebounds (five offensive), five assists and a block in a Dec. 4 Suns victory. Eight days later, Outlaw picked up nine rebounds and two blocks in a Grizzlies' victory. 

"And I thought he was very important for Phoenix last year in the playoffs," West said. "He's got great energy. You're going to be pleasantly surprised with what you see. I have to laugh a lot of times when you draft and do things that make people wonder why you'd do this and that. When it's all said and done, you're going to see an improved team." 

Although injuries afforded Tsakalidis the chance to play in just 33 games last season, West is a fan of the 24-year-old's potential. Tsakalidis has played three seasons and his best was the 2001-02 campaign. He averaged 7.3 points, 5.6 rebounds and a block. 

Phoenix took Tsakalidis in the first round (25th overall) of the 2000 NBA Draft. He is entering the fourth year of a rookie contract. The Griz can decide next summer to extend Tsakalidis to a fifth season or sign him long term. 

"We are losing three great people," West said, "but we needed additional size and strength in the middle, and this trade helps us reach our goal." 

Knight actually asked that he be included in any potential deals for a center. He was relegated to the role of third-string point guard behind Jason Williams and Earl Watson. He likely would have been waived. 

Archibald and Trybanski simply were not ready to contribute. 

The Grizzlies tried several times to get a center this offseason. They struck out on separate deals that would have landed Alonzo Mourning, Michael Olowokandi and Erick Dampier. 

The Grizzlies and Phoenix began negotiations last week. West stopped short of saying that this trade bolsters the team's playoff hopes. 

"There are five teams in the West safe for playoff contention in my opinion," West said. "There's positions to be had, and we're hopeful we can sneak up on some people and surprise some people. We're a deeper team and . . . we might be the most athletic team in the league." _

Link


----------



## piri (Feb 9, 2003)

*A Jerry West doubter*



> Originally posted by <b>talula</b>!
> Great move for the Grizzlies. We basically traded guys who would see no playing time, and we get a center that we desperately needed in return. Hopefully Tsakalidis can stay healthy. Take that doubters of Jerry West :laugh:
> 
> And rawse, you know if Archibald doesn't make it in the NBA, he will have a stellar career overseas. :yes:
> ...


I'm another West doubter, and the trade seems good, but I'll wait to see Tsakalidis on the court with minutes to write long about this trade. Good or bad depending on how this guy play.

The Ouylaw part and tha players that we lost is a great one, but..., if the trade don't solve our C problem, it's unique contribution to Grizzlies is the reduction of the roster.


----------



## Zeus (Jul 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>MJG</b>!
> I'm still on the anti-West bandwagon. . .


well, people often criticize and dislike things that they don't understand. duly noted.


----------



## qwertyu (Dec 29, 2002)

I'm really glad to see Tsakalidis joining your team guys. Gasol recently said some really nice things about Jake's game so I'm pretty sure they will work well together.


----------



## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

*My RobyG-ish Minutes Distribution*

Here's the lineup and minutes as I see them in November.

PG Jason Williams (32mpg)
SG James Posey (28mpg) 20
SF Mike Miller (32mpg)
PF Pau Gasol (40mpg)
C Jake Tsakalidis (20mpg)

Bench: Shane Battier (28mpg), Stromile Swift (28mpg), Earl Watson (16mpg), Lorenzen Wright (8mpg), Wesley Person (8mpg)

End of the bench (No PT): Troy Bell, Bo Outlaw

IR: Michael Dickerson, Dahntay Jones, Ryan Humphrey

Here's how it could look by the end of the season (assuming no more trades):

PG Jason Williams (32mpg)
SG James Posey (28mpg)
SF Mike Miller (36mpg)
PF Pau Gasol (40mpg)
C Jake Tsakalidis (20mpg)

Bench: Stromile Swift (28mpg), Shane Batter (24mpg), Earl Watson (16mpg), Troy Bell (8mpg), Lorenzen Wright (8mpg)

End of the bench (No PT): Wesley Person, Bo Outlaw

IR: (Same)

This is assuming Troy Bell performs as well as West is expecting to have drafted him at #16. If he exceeds expectations, I can see him becoming the scoring "spark" off the bench at the 2, essentially swapping spots with Person. He would get 8 minutes at SG, since I feel that Watson can handle the point for 16 mpg. Bell seems more in the Dajuan Wagner mold of SGs anyways.

Stro would round out the minutes at PF, then play 20 at the "C" position. Big Jake isn't exactly a run-and-gun-type center, and I'm questioning his back right now, so I think 20 minutes for him is perfect. All we need from Jake is for him to fill the lane up for about 10 possessions/game, and he's earned his check. 

Battier would get the remaining 12 minutes at SF, and play 12 minutes at SG when necessary. I see Miller playing more mpg(hopefully over his injuries) down the stretch.

Watson gets 16/game, all at point, obviously. Wright picks up the remaining center minutes when we're playing teams with a glut of big men. 8mpg isn't unreasonable, and we're not going to sit him completely with that big, long contract we're paying him.

Person switches with Bell, and I doubt we see him in a Grizz uniform next year, since we need Jones ( :sour: ) to come along. That is, if the Bobcats don't pick him up, because I don't see how we're going to protect Dahntay...

Outlaw's just there for whenever. He's a real professional, and I don't see him complaining about never playing. With Pau/Stro and our plethora of reserve SFs, I can't find a way to get him minutes. A ten-man rotation is large enough as it is (although Bell/Person and Wright will only be getting garbage minutes).


----------



## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>talula</b>!
> And rawse, you know if Archibald doesn't make it in the NBA, he will have a stellar career overseas. :yes:


Very true. He's a back-to-the-basket center (a rarity nowadays) and a strong rebounder. If his back doesn't give him problems, I have no doubt he'd become a big producer across the Atlantic.


----------



## talula (Jul 9, 2003)

*Re: My RobyG-ish Minutes Distribution*



> Originally posted by <b>rawse</b>!
> IR: Michael Dickerson, Dahntay Jones, *Ryan Humphrey *


The Grizzlies were prepared to eat Brevin Knight's contract, perhaps they'll cut Humphrey. His contract is less than BK's 5 million, so its possible. It just pains me to watch Ryan Humphrey out there, and Theron Smith is much, much better.

:gopray:


----------



## grizzhoops (Apr 16, 2003)

Why doesn't Dahntay Jones get any respect for the amount of improvement that he has made in the past four years? He shot 47% from the floor and 75% from the line last year (and I think he shot about 38-40% for 3FG%). He's a excellent athlete and plays tough defense.

I'm not exactly a Duke fan nor am I particularly impressed with his communication skills nor his demeaner, but he definitely played well in college and has the potential to do well in the NBA, IMO.

Could the anti-Dahntay Jones people please explain their position for my benefit?


----------



## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>grizzhoops</b>!
> Why doesn't Dahntay Jones get any respect for the amount of improvement that he has made in the past four years? He shot 47% from the floor and 75% from the line last year (and I think he shot about 38-40% for 3FG%). He's a excellent athlete and plays tough defense.
> 
> I'm not exactly a Duke fan nor am I particularly impressed with his communication skills nor his demeaner, but he definitely played well in college and has the potential to do well in the NBA, IMO.
> ...


Don't worry. Jones will be better than Carbarkapa and Lampe. Jones is a not a 'sexy' pick so he is not message board cool. Now I admit I wanted Perkins but oh well.

Man it feels good to know that I don't have to cringe this season everytime a player hits the floor, we are deep enough to survive an injury to any player. To all the West doubters...compare our pre-West roster to this roster after only about 18 months on the job. After 18 months we have gone from laughing stock to competing for the playoffs in the Western Conference. What are you doubting?


----------



## Knicksbiggestfan (Apr 29, 2003)

I don't know about being better than Lampe. That guy is a workhorse and seems to be developing into quite the player.


One of the big Jakes, imo is a good move. That doesn't really thrill me though as the news that the grizz finally freed up more time for Earl.


Now I don't know that much about James Posey's game other than what the numbers tell me. I dunno if dickerson can ever play another full season again. But, if James's is good, If dickerson can stay healthy, If Pau has beefed up, and if Earl gets more play time. There is a very good chance this team nabs the 8th seeds and goes to the playoffs.

The grizz showed huge strides of improvement over hubie and I think the addition of some vetran swing and big men is just enough to lead them to a playoff berth.


This should be a real exciting season for the Grizz imo.


----------



## spinarooni85 (Aug 12, 2003)

stromile will more than likely start the games against the eastern conference teams, or at least i think he should instead of jake tsakalidis


----------



## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>spinarooni85</b>!
> stromile will more than likely start the games against the eastern conference teams, or at least i think he should instead of jake tsakalidis


It _will_ likely depend on the opponent. If we're playing a team like Orlando, Miami, or New York, I'd expect Stromile to start as well. But against bulkier teams, Jake should get most of the starts this year. The minutes will likely play out the same no matter what game.


----------



## AMR (Oct 5, 2003)

I love the trade.. now the team doesn't need anything really, only a superstar as Kobe or T-Mac but now you can't say "we need a big center or we need perimeter defense" I think the Grizz could fight for the playoffs


----------



## c_dog (Sep 15, 2002)

I can't believe it happened?? Am i dreaming???

just an amazing trade.. what were the suns thinking?? Jake is one of the most talented centers today. And Bo Outlaw ain't no scrub either. The guy tries hard.

A one sided trade. And one wonders why phonenix would give up 2 quality players.. for an overpaid mediocre player in brevin knight?? this could be for cap room.. but.. really.. Outlaw and Jake's contract both look pretty decent, IMO. I say the grizzlies are in the playoff race this season!!!

as for the suns.. they might have just cost themselves the playoff spot, giving up 2 good players when most teams in the west got much stronger..


----------



## mavsman (Jun 11, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>grizzhoops</b>!
> Why doesn't Dahntay Jones get any respect for the amount of improvement that he has made in the past four years? He shot 47% from the floor and 75% from the line last year (and I think he shot about 38-40% for 3FG%). He's a excellent athlete and plays tough defense.
> 
> I'm not exactly a Duke fan nor am I particularly impressed with his communication skills nor his demeaner, but he definitely played well in college and has the potential to do well in the NBA, IMO.
> ...


The main reason is that they drafted a guy with the 20th pick that
they could have gotten in the 2nd round. I think its more related
to where he was drafted as opposed to his current skills. If they
draft him in the 2nd round then everyone says what a steal.

Of course the Grizzlies did not have a 2nd round pick. Personally
I think Josh Howard is a better player and will be a better pro and
he was taken with the last pick in the 1st round. Obviously,
Jerry West likes the guy alot and believes he was worthy of his
20th pick. I guess we will all just have to wait and see what
kind of pro Jones will be.


----------



## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>mavsman</b>!
> 
> 
> The main reason is that they drafted a guy with the 20th pick that
> ...


Good post. I agree with the points raised here. I thought Jones could be similar to Richard Jefferson (give or take) but looking at the roster questioned whether the pick was wise. Howard may indeed be the better pro. Unless a few players get cut or traded, Jones will rot on the bench. If he hustles like Battier did, maybe the Jones can become a fan favorite and be given a chance.


----------



## grizzhoops (Apr 16, 2003)

I think West drafted Jones when he did because of his defense and athleticism. He was one of the top athletes in the draft and strong defensively. Howard is probably a better offensive player but he isn't as strong defensively. There hasn't been many teams that have one the big games that didn't dominate their opponent defensively. To me, the reason Jones didn't get hyped was because he isn't as exciting offensively as some of the players that did get the draft hype. People get excited about offense but fail to realize exciting offensive players that are not committed to defensive are ultimately a team liability unless you have a couple of monster defenders in your squad.

Memphis is surrounding Pau and Miller with strong defenders because they are both a little weak defensively.

That's my take on why Jones was worth a 20th pick.


----------



## mavsman (Jun 11, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>grizzhoops</b>!
> I think West drafted Jones when he did because of his defense and athleticism. He was one of the top athletes in the draft and strong defensively. Howard is probably a better offensive player but he isn't as strong defensively. There hasn't been many teams that have one the big games that didn't dominate their opponent defensively. To me, the reason Jones didn't get hyped was because he isn't as exciting offensively as some of the players that did get the draft hype. People get excited about offense but fail to realize exciting offensive players that are not committed to defensive are ultimately a team liability unless you have a couple of monster defenders in your squad.
> 
> Memphis is surrounding Pau and Miller with strong defenders because they are both a little weak defensively.
> ...


I agree that Jones is a fine defender but I am not so sure that I
agree that Howard is not as good. Howard was the top vote
getter for the ACC All-defensive team so I think that the coaches
in the ACC think Howard is a great defender as well. Also I
believe that the Mavs drafted Howard because of his defense
not really his offense. They need to improve thier perimeter
defense as well as thier interior defense and Howard was taken
to help in that area (as well as rebounding).

Anyway its splitting hairs, they are both good defenders and if
Jones can get some playing time maybe he can show that he was
worthy of the 20th pick.


----------

