# Sheed waking up



## cimalee (Apr 17, 2003)

I got this off the hoopswolrd blazer board someone posted 

This just in.... KFXX has reported from very good sources within the Blazers & his friends that Rasheed knows it is his contract year. Rasheed has been in the weight room at least 20-25 times since the playoffs lifting weights. 

Apparently the one thing that is motivating Rasheed is not only his contract & security for his family, but respect among his friends in the NBA. 

He knows from his friends that players who make over $10M are considered stars in the NBA. He wants to show he is worth more than $10M next summer and wants to have a great year.

He doesn't care about the refs, coaches and peers.... he cares about his family, pocket book and reputation in the hip hop community. He is the idol of Slam magazine & Hip Hop community. The hip hop fans love his rogue and distaste for the system, but Rasheed isn't stupid he knows as long as he is commanding an $17M a year salary the fans know he is the "word". If he gets below $10M next summer, his popularity will fade as most of the fans want him to show the "system" he can turn it on or off, he is in control not the "system". 

I think Gavin Dawson, KFXX had an interesting proposal: Keep Rasheed, let him have an all-star year of 25pts. 10+rebounds per game this year, finally show his potential & let the fans and blazers get their money worth. Next season sign and trade Rasheed for $10M+ and let him go to another team for a lot more value than this year where all the best you could do is Antonio Davis and Chis Bosh.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

Well, assuming this is true, if he comes into the season in-shape and stronger, he's going to have a career year and the team will do better than it has recently.

He just MIGHT figure out that the increased work he'd put in was worth it beyond just getting a new contract, and at least some of the new approach might stick. That sure would be nice.

Ed O.


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## Terrible (Jan 3, 2003)

What does this tell you guys? He doesn't work out stay in shape or do jack for years and now that his cash is on the line he goes to the gym and is gearing himself up for a big contract extension or pay day somewhere else. 

This is not a leader or a superstar this is a leech for hire! 

Where have you been Sheed? Oh you need more than a 150K a freaking game to try.

If Sheed turns into an allstar this year, the fans in Portland should be monster, monster pissed. I've said forever that Sheed has all the skill in the world to be the best PF ever to play this game but with no heart, and if this contract year is the year he does it in, than he's taken Portland for a lazy ride for many years.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

Here's the answer, sign sheed to an incentive laiden contract, and only for 1 year.


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## barfo (Jan 2, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Terrible</b>!
> What does this tell you guys? He doesn't work out stay in shape or do jack for years and now that his cash is on the line he goes to the gym and is gearing himself up for a big contract extension or pay day somewhere else.


It tells me he's smart enough to understand the system and how to please those who pay his salary. Assuming, of course, that everything said/predicted here is true.

barfo


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## Speed (Dec 31, 2002)

If Sheed plays well this year, we should be pissed? WHY? You don't knock people for improving. That's not right. Live in the present, dude.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Terrible</b>!
> What does this tell you guys? He doesn't work out stay in shape or do jack for years and now that his cash is on the line he goes to the gym and is gearing himself up for a big contract extension or pay day somewhere else.
> 
> This is not a leader or a superstar this is a leech for hire!
> ...


This is exactly the type of player he is. As soon as he gets a huge contract again he will fold up shop on being great.


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## Terrible (Jan 3, 2003)

Barfo this tells me that the Blazers need to find guys that don't only show up on free lunch days! 

BTW- Do you think a 150 K a game would make you be at your best year round for the team? What do ya think that amazing amount of money was spent on him for? Maybe a little light petting before he really screws his next team? Huh?


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## Terrible (Jan 3, 2003)

Speed come on man! Even for a real homer like you, admit that it's strange, that Sheed is now in the gym and eating his vitamins and so forth. You think he's doing this for his team, or Portland? He probably will be an allstar this year but LORD help the team that gets him right after he signs his new big fat contract. Sheed will be right back to 18ppg and a bad attitude on his best nights.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Speed</b>!
> If Sheed plays well this year, we should be pissed? WHY? You don't knock people for improving. That's not right. Live in the present, dude.


thats partially true, but it's a bad pattern to have. If you only are good when it comes to your contract year, there's no point in signing said player.

Plus, I think Rasheed knows that there's no way on gods green earth he's going to get anything near what he makes now, so (assuming this is a true "rumor") he's gonna have to bust his butt this year.


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## Talkhard (May 13, 2003)

Absolutely right, Terrible. This is an insult to every paying fan of the Portland Trail Blazers. It's telling them that Rasheed was never really serious before (i.e., he never cared enough to lift weights during the season, much less the summer!).

"Security for his family"? What kind of %&*#$ nonsense is that? Any man who makes over $10 million in one year is set for life. And how many years has Wallace been making millions? If he has half a brain (which is doubtful) he's been investing it wisely all these years and has nothing to worry about.

Don't get me wrong. I hope that, if Wallace isn't traded, he comes to camp in the best shape of his life. But it's ridiculous that Portland fans had to wait until the final year of his contract before he decided to really buckle down and act like a professional.

And Wallace is concerned about his reputation in the hip-hop community?!! Give me a break. What about his reputation among the fans who buy the tickets that pay his mortage?!


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## Terrible (Jan 3, 2003)

All I hope for is that Portland understands that Sheed is a one year act about to open with no freaking chance of a second year encore performance.


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## barfo (Jan 2, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Terrible</b>!
> Barfo this tells me that the Blazers need to find guys that don't only show up on free lunch days!
> 
> BTW- Do you think a 150 K a game would make you be at your best year round for the team? What do ya think that amazing amount of money was spent on him for? Maybe a little light petting before he really screws his next team? Huh?


Yes, I'd be happy to put forth my best efforts for $150K/game. But then, I do believe you'd be dissatisfied with the results if the Blazers gave me that contract instead of Sheed. 

It's pretty common for employees to dog it when they are allowed to. Not everyone does, some of us put forth our very best effort each and every day whether or not the boss/client is watching. But I suspect those are rather the exception.

If it is the case that Sheed's contract doesn't motivate him properly (and I'm not sure I agree with that premise) whose fault is it? There's probably a reason most employees in the real world don't receive 7 year no-cut contracts. Did Sheed misrepresent himself in his last contract negotiations? Did he promise things he didn't do? How would we know? Maybe he went in and said "You can give me millions, and maybe you should because I'm pretty damn talented, but I want you to know I don't like to work very hard". 

barfo


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## Talkhard (May 13, 2003)

> "The hip hop fans love his rogue and distaste for the system."


What system would that be? The one that has made him a millionaire many times over? Yeah, that makes sense. Only a real man is brave enough to show his distaste for such an awful system.


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## barfo (Jan 2, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Talkhard</b>!
> And Wallace is concerned about his reputation in the hip-hop community?!! Give me a break. What about his reputation among the fans who buy the tickets that pay his mortage?!


Well, he's got a guaranteed contract. Whether fans buy tickets or not changes his income not one penny. So if he's the selfish jerk you think he is, why should he care about the fans? 

barfo


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## Talkhard (May 13, 2003)

He obviously doesn't care about the paying fans. But he should!


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## barfo (Jan 2, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Talkhard</b>!
> He obviously doesn't care about the paying fans. But he should!


Should he care more about the fans than, say, a movie star cares about the people buying movie tickets? 

barfo


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## DYNASTY (Jun 18, 2003)

Both teams played hard my man. God Bless-n-good nite.


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## Oldmangrouch (Feb 11, 2003)

Ok folks, serious question. When was the last time you saw a "lazy" player who was good on defense???

There is an old truism in bucketball that defense is about effort, while offense is about *smarts*.

Sheed is good on "D", and wildly inconsistent on offense. You do the math!


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## MAS RipCity (Feb 22, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Terrible</b>!
> What does this tell you guys? He doesn't work out stay in shape or do jack for years and now that his cash is on the line he goes to the gym and is gearing himself up for a big contract extension or pay day somewhere else.
> 
> This is not a leader or a superstar this is a leech for hire!
> ...


So we should be pissed if he has a monster All-Star MVP calibur type year ? You don't make any sense:yes:


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## cimalee (Apr 17, 2003)

The thing is I believe this last year , Sheeds incident with damon , and the 7 game suspension kind of got to him.
It looks like his personal life effected his play , and you dont know what goes on at home. I think he will come out next year and dominate , prove people like jason quick wrong .


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## Terrible (Jan 3, 2003)

Hey Mas? No you should be pissed he's been sitting on his arrssss not going to the gym and trying to be the best player he can be for the Blazers for the last three years. If that doesn't bother you than let me tell you about some swamp land in Florida, cause I'll bet you'll buy that too!

Wake up people! See the scam! Sheed will be a slacker again the minute he signs his new contract!


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## hasoos (Jan 3, 2003)

*Maybe*

They should just guarantee a Fat Green Nugget of Oregon Goodness for every 10 points he scores and every 10 rebounds he pulls down after every game. And possibly a new video game if you get a triple double.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Terrible</b>!
> 
> Wake up people! See the scam! Sheed will be a slacker again the minute he signs his new contract!


Boy, if you harnessed all the anger and disgust you use in the realm of pro basketball, you could really make a difference in this world in something that actually means something.

You spend all your time protesting the team, protesting the players...it's a freaking game. Just sit and watch and enjoy. Or don't watch if you don't enjoy. Who the heck cares if a player "is in it for the money" or plays up for contract years? You don't pay his salary, neither do I...let the people who's money he is or isn't scamming handle it.

Man...life has enough things that can be hard or offer anxiety...basketball, or any entertainment, is the last place I want to borrow grief, like an employee who may or may not be slacking. That's what Patterson and the new mystery GM are being paid to worry about. I refuse to worry about it until they pay me well to worry about it. I'll just take the free entertainment on my television and move on.


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## brewmaster (Dec 31, 2002)

Regarding Sheed pumping iron and coming in with a new attitude this year (his last contract year):

I'll beleive it when I see it.


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## Scinos (Jun 10, 2003)

:no: :no: :no: :no: 

Typical of Sheed. He has so much potential, if only he had the desire....

He wants to put up good numbers to get a fat new contract, then he'll slack off again....:sigh:


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## sabas4mvp (Sep 23, 2002)

I think this has Shawn Kemp syndrome written all over it... 

"I SAW KEMP THIS SUMMER HE LOOKS SLIM, REIGN MAN BABY!!!!"-Random Blazer Fan

"SHEED IS WORKING OUT LIKE A MAD MAN, GONNA BUFF UP FOR THE SEASON"-Random Blazer Fan #2

I can only hope.

Watch sheed gain 20 lbs of muscle this off season, and get traded... average 25 and 12 for another team.


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## TP3 (Jan 26, 2003)

Give it a rest. Sheed is not going to change. He doesn't care. How many chances are we going to give him? He needs to go away. He is poison!


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## hasoos (Jan 3, 2003)

*Did any of you ever watch*

Derek Mckey play? Rasheed is just like him. He had tremendous ability and skills both offensively and defensively. Teams tried to get him to show up at another level, and at times he would shine. But eventually the Soncis gave up on him for Schrempf, who was much more consistent, and they became a better team. See a lot of the time I think that people miss a big point about what makes a good team. Consistency. Night in and night out, they play at a known level. Portland has too many players who you don't know how they are going to play every night. Rasheed is the tip of that. Is it going to be a 28 pt night, or a 14 point night? Bonzi...is it going to be a 48 point night or a 3 point night...last years playoffs was the pinnacle of that demonstration. I think this is why a lot of the time last year, you saw Cheeks spending a lot of the game searching for something that would work, even digging deep into the bench to see if somebody was going to show up to play. Then he would try to make a run late in the game with what happened to be working that night.


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## Sheed30 (Apr 3, 2003)

Oldmangrouch, you said exactly what I wanted to say. If Sheed is so lazy, then why does he play good D, and good D against the top power forwards in the league. I would say Sheed is inconsistent on offense. Maybe Sheed has a bad work ethic or what not, but I think people fail to relaize Sheed can do more than score to help the team. We can put Sheed on any 4 in the league maybe beside Duncan, and not have to double team, which helps team defense better. If we traded Sheed, and don't get a defensive power forward in return, we are going to see Z-bo getting burnt on D every game. Z-bo is going to be forced to out score his opponet, cause he won't be able to hold his own on D.


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## Terrible (Jan 3, 2003)

Minstrel, 

You are one of the most knowledgeable basketball fans I've ever read, so don't give me that apathetic toss on how to interpret this game and balance it with a healthy life BS. Jesus, I feel like I just got a tongue lashing from Joseph Liberman.

Sports and people who love sports or have played sports are competitive by nature, otherwise this would be knitting board or a sewing site. It's not, it's sports and that's why you're here too!

You've debated for Pip like you were his personal $1500 dollar and hour defense attorney but yet hoops is just something you could take or leave cause you don't pay their bills?

Tell me that again when you're on your next 8th page debate on why Pip is not riding on MJ's coat tails or he's not to old to contribute any longer, or he's not one of the 50 greatest!  


I don't mind that you disagree on my views about Sheed, I expect it! What bothers me is how you play down your own obvious passion for this game to make a point about mine.

Your last post I hope you printed and then used as toilet paper, cause I don't think even you buy that passive dribble when it comes to sports at this level. If you really do believe what ya just wrote, I'd suggest you create a nice kickball site where you and the rest of the Minstrels can dance and sing all day long!


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## trifecta (Oct 10, 2002)

That was pretty funny Terrible!

I actually have two points I think-

1. In response to Minstral's pov - if one can put a favorite sports team in the same category as a good movie, more power to him. For me (and others to a lessor or greater degree) part of the fun is the emotion.

2. In response to this actual topic, I think all of you who are upset with this latest rumor are way off base. My feeling about this is that I won't be at all pissed if Sheed has a career next year in order to secure a new contract. I'll wait and be pissed if there's a substantial drop in production THE FOLLOWING YEAR of his new contract.

Getting upset with a player because he plays better seems counterproductive to my overall goal for the team.

Don't get me wrong. I would love to see Sheed gone - but only if it's a good trade for the Blazers. No Firesale for me thankyou.


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## Terrible (Jan 3, 2003)

trifecta, I don't want to trade Sheed for some of the garbage I've seen mentioned either. However I hope that when he coasts again and he will, that Cheeks will yank his arsss so we don't have to watch it again next year.

Whenever Sheed come down the court on offense and instantly chucks up a three, the whistle should blow and he takes one. Only until he starts posting up and doing his job should he get big minutes. He's a PF and the coach should make him be one! We can get a real SG in the FA market.


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## Yega1979 (Mar 22, 2003)

How do you all know this is not just more off-season chattle. Remember how great Derek Anderson was supposed to be after a summer of working out, putting on 15 pounds of muscle, and taking a leadership role? YA RIGHT! He was the same old weak jack up 20 foot bricks with 18 seconds on the clock opps I twisted my ankle Anderson.

How many consecutive years was Damon working out to have his breakout year? LOL! He's almost 30, and people are still talking about his potential. And don't forget the reports of Shawn Kemp dropping 40 pounds and looking close to his "old self".

Rasheed can lift weights, but he's always going to be an under-acheiving loser. He had the talent to be the best PF in history, almost unstoppable, but great players have to have heart and a mind for the game, not just talent.


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## Terrible (Jan 3, 2003)

Careful Yega!! "SOME" people here may not agree with that negative type of post!:laugh: 

I'm not one of them though!


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## ABM (Dec 30, 2002)

Interesting thread.

#1 A Wallace that works out over the summer is certainly better that a Wallace that doesn't. Bring it on, Sheed. Show us what you've got.

#2 If Wallace does dedicate himself to getting in tip-top shape, and, all that extra effort translates into a better (dare I say, A-S) year, then, try like the dickens to work out a S&T trade next summer for him. The value proposition will never be more in the Blazers' favor.

#3 I tend to agree that Sheed has been relatively lazy. Whether he likes it, or not, he has been cloaked with a leadership role on this team and, at least, for the past few years (yes, his reduction in T's, etc., notwithstanding), has not lived up to most people's expectations. Lack of preparedness being the key factor in my personal estimation.

#4 As I've mentioned in other posts, many have become weary of Sheed - in and of himself. Just who he is and what he's all about. True, we support the team for what they do on the court. However, it's sometimes difficult not to identify with them as people, as well. This is something that I've struggled with, but have come to realize that I just can't escape that notion. Character does matter - and I just don't happen to like Sheed's, shall I say, aloofness, smugness - whatever you want to call it. Over time, the jewel has become tarnished and not easy to admire anymore. I'd just as soon see him gonzo.


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## brewmaster (Dec 31, 2002)

I like sabas4mvp comment about the Wallace situation being just like the Shawn Kemp situation.

I couldn't agree more. For three summers (including last summer before he got bought out), I was totally convinced that this was the year that Kemp returns to his ole self. Well, Kemp fooled me multiple times.

After being through that with Kemp, I'm not going to let these "Sheed's pumping iron" comments get me excited. I just don't beleive it. 

Yes, it's a contract year for Wallace. But I still say he's too lazy and too dumb to think "Hey, maybe I should work out this summer to improve my worth."

Sure, it's a nice dream, Sheed having a career year and leading the Blazers deep into the playoffs. But it's just a dream.


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## Oldmangrouch (Feb 11, 2003)

Sorry, but some of you still don't get it.:no: 

Sheed can hire Jose Canseco's personal trainer. He can become a born again Christian. He can replace Hip-Hop with C&W. IT WON'T MATTER!!

Sheed's problem is neither laziness nor poor physical conditioning - the root of the problem is that he lacks basketball smarts/instincts. That is why he is more comfortable taking wide-open treys, than operating in the chaos of the low-post. 

In baseball terms, Sheed is a "tools goof"....a fine athelete who has no head for the game. It's too bad.....but being dumb is not a character flaw! :sigh:


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## ebott (Jan 7, 2003)

Wow, we find out Sheed's been working out and everybody's pissed. Like it's not standard protocol for an NBA player to get in great shape before their contract year. It's not like this is the first time this has happened people. He'll come into camp in shape and he'll have a great year. That's terrific, it'll significantly increase his trade value. Maybe we can swing something cool at this years trade dead line.

Talking about benching Sheed is just stupid. One does not bench their best player, it's crazy talk. It's like the kids in the urban culture that Gavin seems to think is Sheed's main motivating factor say, "we ride together, we die together." With Sheed playing as we know he can we're a contender. Without him we probably don't make the playoffs. Talk about trading him all you want. He's on the market. His days here are numbered. Don't worry Sheed haters he won't be here long. But hoping that Mo benches him is just retarded.


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## The Enigma (May 10, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Sheed30</b>!We can put Sheed on any 4 in the league *maybe beside Duncan*, and not have to double team, which helps team defense better.


Even Duncan... I would rate Wallace as the top individual PF defender against Duncan in the entire league (yes better than KG, Ben Wallace, Martin, you name it).

*Going off topic a bit:* Factor that in with Dale Davis being one of the best individual defenders of Duncan as well (not to mention the Blazers athletic help defensive schemes), and you have the best team in the league at defending the two time reigning MVP.


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## The Enigma (May 10, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Terrible</b>!
> Whenever Sheed come down the court on offense and instantly chucks up a three, the whistle should blow and he takes one. Only until he starts posting up and doing his job should he get big minutes. He's a PF and the coach should make him be one! We can get a real SG in the FA market.


Why is it nobody seems to mind when Dirk does the same thing (a whole lot more may I add)?

Bill Walton is the perfect example of this.

During the playoffs whenever Rasheed would pull up for a three in transition (make or miss) he would say something to the effect of _"great shot selection Rasheed... what is he thinking"._

When Dirk would do the exact same thing his instantaneous response would be _"What fluidity, what grace... The ability of a seven footer to pull up and hit the open three in transition, truly remarkable... This is as unique a player as any that I have ever seen"_

Why the double standard.


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## barfo (Jan 2, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>The Enigma</b>!
> 
> 
> Why is it nobody seems to mind when Dirk does the same thing (a whole lot more may I add)?
> ...


Hmm. Because Sheed has the ability to play in the interior, and Dirk doesn't? Because Dirk's a Euro, and you know how "they" are? Because Bill's a blithering idiot? Because Bill has unresolved issues regarding the Blazers? 

barfo


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## The Enigma (May 10, 2003)

_"There is an old truism in bucketball that defense is about effort, while offense is about *smarts*."_

Anyone who has played Basketball at a structured level (as I have) can tell you that defense requires just as much if not more "smarts" in comparison to offence.

Defense is in essence a reaction (which generally requires less thought; except in terms of basketball, which requires foresight in order to negate the action). Defence consists of making educated guesses and adjusting to the actions of another on the fly. 
Offence on the other hand is an action that is rather instinctive. The offensive player has the freedom of making any choice he feels is available while the defender is confined to reacting at the whim of another’s action. 

This requires thought (not just effort).

*For example:* Woods appears “dumb as a rock” yet seems to have a good offensive feel for the game (same with Randolph); yet neither seems to grasp the simplest of defensive concepts.

-----------------------

*This statement:

* _"There is an old truism in bucketball that defense is about effort, while offense is about *smarts*”_, while it may sound snazzy and up to snub is a fallacy.


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## Terrible (Jan 3, 2003)

ebott, what really is retarded is catering to a guy that could give a rip about staying in shape playing smart team ball and using his best skill which is his posting up ability. Sheed is unstopable when he backs in and does that 10 foot fade. So it makes NO sense that he'd rather stay out on the three and chuck up the the long ball. 

His inside game on top of being effective also puts the other team in foul trouble so that in quarter 4 the entire team we are playing isn't sitting with two fouls a person. Teams today win on the FOUL LINE and Sheed doesn't get there even half as much as he could.

Enigma, the day that Sheed puts up Dirk like numbers for three or even two games in "A ROW" in the playoffs or hell for that matter the regular season, you can use that example of "Dirk Does IT" why can't Sheed? Dirk scored more points than Sheed and Bonzi combined most games in the playoffs against us. He also made it to the line a bunch attacking the glass. That would leave me to believe that Dirk might do his job just a little better and that's why he's scoring 40+ and Sheed is scoring 18!

You can say Sheed is the best player all you want, but the point is the best player is scoring role player numbers most nights!


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## The Enigma (May 10, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Terrible</b>!
> Enigma, the day that Sheed puts up Dirk like numbers for three or even two games in "A ROW" in the playoffs or hell for that matter the regular season, you can use that example of "Dirk Does IT" why can't Sheed? Dirk scored more points than Sheed and Bonzi combined most games in the playoffs against us. He also made it to the line a bunch attacking the glass. That would leave me to believe that Dirk might do his job just a little better and that's why he's scoring 40+ and Sheed is scoring 18!


While true, what exactly does it have to do with my assertion that each is perceived completely different (by fans and commentators alike) for shooting essentially the same shot within the course of a ballgame?

The gist of my statement (if you missed it) is not to point out that Wallace is as good as Dirk (he is not), it was to shed light on a double standard that does indeed exist.

Dirk is not even necessary in order to get this point across. Any European big man that plays on the perimeter and shoots 3’s (Kukoc, Nowitzki, Lampe, Tskitishvili, etc) is usually not only loved for, but expected to do so. 
However, when an American born player who plays a European type game (Rasheed, and to a lesser degree Walker) does this it is instantly pointed out that they should be in the post “where big men should be”. 

I spot a discrepancy there.

_6’11”-7’Euro shooting 3’s = future of the game
6’11”-7’ American shooting 3’s = bum needs to get back into the paint _

*All of this leads me to believe that:* If Rasheed (with the exact same game) were a player from Moscow named _Ivan Spredacov_ who did not talk to the media because he did not speak the language, he would be perceived completely different.
_Being an excellent defensive player as a European big man would probably be talked up as well. _


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Terrible</b>!
> Minstrel,
> 
> You are one of the most knowledgeable basketball fans I've ever read, so don't give me that apathetic toss on how to interpret this game and balance it with a healthy life BS. Jesus, I feel like I just got a tongue lashing from Joseph Liberman.


My point wasn't the amount of time spent on basketball. Watching and playing the game is a hobby and one can spend as much time as one wants on it...entertainment often sucks up people's time.



> You've debated for Pip like you were his personal $1500 dollar and hour defense attorney but yet hoops is just something you could take or leave cause you don't pay their bills?


No, sports is not something I could "take or leave." It's one of my favourite forms of entertainment in life. What I won't do is spend time worrying about it or bathe people I don't know in anger and disgust. Worries, one gets enough in life, without taking it from something that's supposed to be *enjoyable*. Anger and disgust, I try to limit in any arena of life. But especially in a game that isn't my means of income.



> I don't mind that you disagree on my views about Sheed, I expect it! What bothers me is how you play down your own obvious passion for this game to make a point about mine.


Passion, i.e., spending time and enjoying something is one thing. In my opinion, calling fans to arms that so-and-so doesn't care until his contract year (unsubstantiated) or that the team owes the fans something beyond the game they paid to see, etc, is just adding anger and bitterness where it's inappropriate.

Just my opinion. It affects me only mildly, in that I see the bitterness and some fans make the overall atmosphere less upbeat (and I can't see any point to a sports discussion forum unless its fun...we're not determining anything here)...but that's fine. I can ignore it. I'm simply giving my viewpoint on these tirades that you drop each week.

I guess my real question to you, and it's an honest one, is: Do tirades about the team and it's players help you enjoy the entire NBA experience (that includes watching the games and posting on this forum)?

I can't imagine how it could, but then, we're all different, so just because I can't see it doesn't mean it can't happen. 



> Your last post I hope you printed and then used as toilet paper, cause I don't think even you buy that passive dribble when it comes to sports at this level.


Newsflash: *We* are not participating in "sports at this level." We're just writing about it...unless you really want it to be, writing is not a competitive endeavour, and even when it is, it's hardly at some highly intense level. Don't kid yourself that you're somehow "competing" at some high athletic level and therefore great intensity is required. You are watching *others* compete at a high level. *They* are the ones who need to be intense.

So yes...I don't bring high competitive intensity to this forum, nor do I bring it to watching a game on TV (except in rare cases). I reserve competitive intensity for when *I* am competing, personally. Not for when people I don't know are competing for money on my screen.



> If you really do believe what ya just wrote, I'd suggest you create a nice kickball site where you and the rest of the Minstrels can dance and sing all day long!


Cool. Thanks for the suggestion. I'll give it all the consideration it deserves.


----------



## Tommyboy (Jan 3, 2003)

I've been saying all along I'd rather keep sheed one more year and let him play for his contract.

anyone play Fantasy Football? We love drafting guys that are in their contract year, its a staple of FF. Its true in just about every pro sport, guys just have that extra bit of motivation to perform. There is one thing above all that motivates most of these athletes, its money. It has nothing to do with fans, owners, coaches, self discipline, its about the jack.

so being this is his year, take advantage of it. And then ditch him for someone younger, and potentially much better. Because I'm 99% sure that Sheed will coast into the sunset once he gets his next fat contract.


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Terrible</b>!
> ...you should be pissed he's been sitting on his arrssss not going to the gym and trying to be the best player he can be for the Blazers for the last three years.


Terrible- how are you privy to Sheed's work out schedule (or lack there of). I'm sure you must be true insight to his life and aren't talking out your arrssss when you say that he hasn't been going to the gym for the last three years, so please, whats your source? Do you know the Blazer trainers? If what you say is true (that he doesn't lift weights at the gym much), do you know who he would be like? Mike. MJ never lifted weights regularly, and never took nutrition seriously either according to those that covered him while in Chicago. It seems that you feel that Bball players must work out in the gym to be the best player they can be, but somehow Mike did OK. 

STOMP


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Terrible</b>!
> Sheed is unstopable when he backs in and does that 10 foot fade. So it makes NO sense that he'd rather stay out on the three and chuck up the the long ball.


It makes perfect sense if thats what his coach has instructed him to do, and thats just what Mo claimed he wanted last season. Why? Because he only had two respectable outside shooters in his rotation last season (Sheed and DA). Sheed in the post draws the double every time, because Portland doesn't have the shooters to capitalize on open looks from the outside. The defense is hoping Scottie or Bonzi is enticed to chuck up an outside jumper... thats why Mo said prior to the draft that the team needs another shooter. Look for him to say it again and again untill they acquire some more balance from the outside, and once they do, look for Wallace to man the post much more often. Obviously he is very good there, but who wants to see him forcing up shots through a doubleteam?

STOMP


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## Terrible (Jan 3, 2003)

STOMP, I just disagree with everything you write! Sheed has not put on any muscle , you can look at him and see that. There is a gym the Blazers use and the players have all said that Sheed is never there. Sheed has said he doesn't like lifting weights. Unlike MJ, Sheed is a PF and his muscle and weight are an asset. He has shown up to training camp overweight and slow the last three years and it takes him a month to burn the weight off. Don't take my word for it, plenty of Blazers can be quoted saying the same thing over the years about how Sheed is not the guy you'd find in the gym. 

As for his play and position, I think he is unstopable in the paint and most agree with that thought . So when he hangs out on the top of the key after a failed high pick and roll and just shoots with no one under to rebound it bugs me. That's not smart hoops! I understand that he is a good three ball shooter and DA was out in the playoffs, but that's a coaching problem with not developing Q and also trading Kerr. Sheed had DA for a lot of the year and he was still chucking up the threes and his stats were still like a roller coaster all year long.

Sheed is and has not ever been consistent night in and night out! That's a fact. His PPG makes him a decent role player and not much more.

So if this up coming year Sheed comes in with ten pounds of visable muscle and an all star year and consistent "GOOD" numbers night in and night out, I think why couldn't he have done it before when he was younger to boot? Then you might ask yourself if he only shows up to play when the money is right, what kind of team player is he really and what kind of a leader?

Oh yeah and about this forceing up shots through the double team, Sheed is a very good passer and him being doubled teamed is just what we want cause then Bonzi, DA and Pip one of them is open for the easy dunk. I want Sheed doubled all game long, it means the other team respects his skills enough to let one of our other players run free. I don't know if you've noticed but Sheed has not commanded a double in over a year! What does that tell ya? Hell, Zach is now commanding the double.

You've also heard Damon say that the reason the offense looks so stale is because Sheed will not post up and that makes the rest of the team have to make up for his slack play. That's the PG saying that, not me!


----------



## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

Who cares if he has not put on visable muscle, this is hoops. I've been watching him go up against Timmy D since they were both freshman in college, and both have basicly the same bodytypes now as then. Long and lean. I've seen him come into camp less then 100% toned up, but as usual, you go massively over the top describing him as needing a month to burn it off. For a guy who plays as many minutes as Sheed does, it says something that he stays relatively healthy playing major minutes at a high level... it says that what he's doing is working.

I've never noticed Wallace getting physically abused by anyone in the league outside of Shaq (and his 100 extra lbs), so I'm not sure why you're up on your soapbox pontificating this time. Karl Malone obviously has much bigger muscles then Wallace, but Sheed consistently has outplayed him (and won) in their matchups over the last 3-4 years. Hasn't drawn a double all season??? Take off the blinders, it happens most every time vs nearly every team. Again, he is not slacking to the 3 pt line, he is going there on his coach's direction, because of the lack of other consistent shooters from the perimeter. His shot on the perimeter is needed to create space for Dale, Rube, and Zack to work inside, and for Bonzi and Pip to slash. DA is their only other respectable threat in the rotation. Q may be one next year, but it's a pretty poor stretch you make blaming Cheeks for not using him more last season. He was a rookie and defensively was completely behind the curve on whats acceptable. Hopefully with a year under his belt he'll be able to hold his own on that end so he can provide some needed outside shooting on the other.

You obviously feel you know better then the coach, and sending Wallace to the post is the cureall to Portland's offensive problems, but I haven't noticed that every time Sheed is doubled he dumps the ball off for an easy dunk. From what I've observed when he is doubled he kicks it back out, they swing it on the perimeter, and a shooter clangs it. Given the choice of who's philosophy to back between you and the coach, I've got to go with Mo. I'm sure hes putting guys in the spots where he feels it gives the team the best chance to win, and I'm also sure that he's privy to lots of pertainent info on the players that you and I are completely out of the loop on. 

No I haven't heard the latest laughable finger pointings from Damon as I am in and out of touch with society in the summers with my job in the Sierras... he's blaming Sheed now for his struggles! Please you've got to link me that one. I also think it's funny that you call him a PG... 12th man or bitter baggage handler would be more appropriate. 

This is my favorite of your over the top nonsense...

"Sheed is and has not ever been consistent night in and night out! That's a fact. His PPG makes him a decent role player and not much more."

How do the Trailblazers manage to so consistently win so many games if their best player is only a "decent role player"? How come so many coach's feel he is (not potencially, but is) so much better then that?

A. because he is much better then a decent role player in the opinion of most. In fact, he is one of the best big men in the league. Some score more, some rebound better, few play better D, and most give better interviews, but Rasheed Wallace is one of the premiere players in the league and the scoreboard proves it year after year... consistently.

I know... you disagree with everything I write! You've been blasting Wallace for two plus years now, imploring everyone to see him for what he is, and usually I'm right there to disagree with you and point out pertainent facts like victories and such...
But tomorrow morning I'll be gone for another week, so this will have to be it for a while. Hope the new GM is to your liking...

STOMP


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## . (Jun 30, 2003)

sheed is the closest thing portland has as a "SUPERSTAR" and you can not get a superstar that often, even with all his attitude, sheed is still quite a capable player to build your franchise around, he has mature consistently throughout his career and lets not judge a man for his past, lets await for the bright future for all of us, we shouldnt all get down so deep on sheed, he still hasnt finish growing as a player and as a person, as you all know you and i become totally mature as an adult, at age 20 and for some people, well like sheed, didnt become a fully grown man capable of handle his own responsibility until, lets say age 30 !! you know, everyone mature at different pace, so lets not make the final judgement too fast.


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## jackiejackal (Nov 7, 2002)

*i had to say something in this thread*

"sheed is still quite a capable player to build your franchise around"

BINGO !

That's the problem..

NO HE IS NOT...

He is a major problem,they are using him as if he were a star.

That's why on many many games,minutes to go,sometimes
a shot to go,Portland loses.

They are acting like they think he is a superstar...

He is not !

Rarely,at best does he take the winning shot.
Or even demand the ball "to win the game on heart".

That just has to change.

Name me one team that has their "superstar" taking and making
less shots than almost the entire team..

If Portland had that player..
WCF game seven would have had a much different ending.

Sure Portland got 50 wins..we would have had more than that.


Scottie Pippen is/was the star here.

He has been the truest "star" since Drexler.

At least we could count on his smarts to try his "best" to win.

Wallace is not that player,never has been.

To even suggest that "this year he will try harder" is laughable.


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## marshall (Jun 18, 2003)

*Re: i had to say something in this thread*



> Rarely,at best does he take the winning shot.
> Or even demand the ball "to win the game on heart".
> 
> 
> ...



Second to last game this season........Sheed hits game winning 3 to stop a streaking hot Lakers team. Mavs series Game 4, season on the line. Sheed Wallace hits a 3 from the corner. After the game Scottie Pippen says Sheed is the superstar and the team goes with him.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

*Re: Re: i had to say something in this thread*



> Originally posted by <b>marshall</b>!
> 
> Second to last game this season........Sheed hits game winning 3 to stop a streaking hot Lakers team. Mavs series Game 4, season on the line. Sheed Wallace hits a 3 from the corner. After the game Scottie Pippen says Sheed is the superstar and the team goes with him.


Bah... you expect facts to matter over general negative impressions? You must be new here...



Ed O.


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## jackiejackal (Nov 7, 2002)

*but how many times*

have we needed those baskets blocked at the end of the game?

The shots you mentioned were terrific !

But do you realize how few times you can say that about him?

I was wondering why in the Laker game he was not even in the 
play at the end of the game...he was not even trying to get those precious rebounds.

where was he???
oh just standing out on the perimeter..

Sure he got the shot..!
but he can't be used as a do nothing else like Horry..
that's what i am trying to say.
we need him on on more plays.


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## jackiejackal (Nov 7, 2002)

*hey ed..*

is this an almanac or a forum??

we are not swearing on a stack of bibles here.
we are just enjoying "talking" about the team.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

*Re: but how many times*



> Originally posted by <b>jackiejackal</b>!
> have we needed those baskets blocked at the end of the game?
> 
> The shots you mentioned were terrific !
> ...


can someone please figure out how many close games we had last season, where it was won on a last second shot, who took those shot, and why Rasheed is a satan worshipping a-hole?


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## jackiejackal (Nov 7, 2002)

*it would be easier to show*

those close games we lost..
because a certain very tall player was lazy and didn't get involved.

how many times in big games was Damon the one getting the rebounds??
many !

Sheed has to be thought of as a tremendous player WHO
HAS TO BE COUNTED OUT AS THE STAR.
How much clearer does it have to be???


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

*Re*

JJ- Since Damon averaged less then 3 boards per in the games he actually played (only 59), I think your example is a very poor one. But do some research and prove me wrong right after you easily compile a list of how many games Wallace cost Portland a victory (somehow I'm guessing you're going to come up with 36 ) .

Obviously you feel very strongly about Wallace being lazy, uninvolved, and so-on, but as clear as anything in this world, many posters do not agree with you. Posting the same things over and over and over and over, with more and more unprovable outlandish statements doesn't seem to be swaying people to share your view, but maybe in time you'll wear us all down and we will see Satan in all things Wallace. Good luck.

STOMP


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## jackiejackal (Nov 7, 2002)

*Well from what i read*

I am not alone thinking this way.
This thread had gone a long way before any comment from me.

There is another very well respected email list BLT on the net.

That has been the discussion for day after day also..
Sheed's worth.

You can go right ahead and pay me no mind.

It doesn't bother me in the slightest.

I have read many of your posts by the way,stomp..

You are a genius !!

Sway??

Why??

it's a forum..


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

*Re: but how many times*



> Originally posted by <b>jackiejackal</b>!
> Sure he got the shot..!
> but he can't be used as a do nothing else like Horry..
> that's what i am trying to say.
> we need him on on more plays.


...and what I've contended for a while, is that if he could be paired with teammates who can... A) Get him the ball in the post B) Hit open looks if the defense doubles down on him... we will see better offense from Rasheed and the team. As the Blazers are currently constructed, Mo has decided that it's in the team's best interest to have him stationed on the perimeter (alla Horry). I agree with you that he's very effective on the post, we disagree as to why he's not there more often.

STOMP


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## Terrible (Jan 3, 2003)

Forget about it Jackie,

"SOME" people on this board spend their whole days justifying this team getting beaten cause they can't see what everybody else in the league does and that is the Blazers need to dump Sheed and Bonzi and rebuild around some guys that bring it every night.

When all is said and done a first round playoff loss is still a first round loss. All the FACTS and STATS that ED and others spout wonts change that. 

This team can't get out of the first round with a payroll that would humble most third world countries. 

What can you do? IF you have fans like "SOME" on this board you don't really need to make a change do ya? They're happy just getting to the first round!

So be it!


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## Terrible (Jan 3, 2003)

Hey Stomp? Do you think telling us we are wrong about Sheed will make us see it your way?

Let's put it to a test, you post this on a NBA forum and tell the rest of the fans of the league what a great player Sheed is and see how they respond. Think they'd scrap their whole team to make Sheed their hub to build around?

:laugh: :laugh:


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Terrible</b>!
> Forget about it Jackie, "SOME" people on this board spend their whole days justifying this team getting beaten cause they can't see what everybody else in the league does and that is the Blazers need to dump Sheed and Bonzi and rebuild around some guys that bring it every night.



Just countering your relentless 24/7 bashing Terrible with over the top statements like "can't see what everybody else does". Obviously everybody else is not on the same page with you or me, but you keep spitting out the venom.




> Originally posted by <b>Terrible</b>!
> When all is said and done a first round playoff loss is still a first round loss. All the FACTS and STATS that ED and others spout wonts change that. This team can't get out of the first round with a payroll that would humble most third world countries. What can you do? IF you have fans like "SOME" on this board you don't really need to make a change do ya? They're happy just getting to the first round!


Actually I'd be happy it if they could enter the playoffs healthy for just once, sort of like Dallas did this year, so we could definitively see what the better players on the team are capable of (I'm thinking they'd advance). You do realize that for one playoff game vs Dallas, Portland had less then half of their payroll in uniform? Every starter either missed games or had to leave a game to have injuries treated, while conversely Dallas stayed strong. If you compare the money their available players recieve to Dallas, you'll find the team with runaway lead in technicals (for the season and series) also had the higher $$$. After Dallas advanced, Dirk suffered an unfortunate injury, and they quickly lost. Same with Webber and Sacremento. It seems to me that there is a correlation between having your best players healthy and advancing, but what do I know, it's not like I'm some genius (thanks anyways Jackie). 

STOMP


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## Tommyboy (Jan 3, 2003)

i think its pretty much a give that if your best player, your "superstar" isn't even an All-Star, he ain't all that great in the eyes of the general public and the rest of the league coaches and GM's.

that's Sheed, he ain't all that great. He could be if he wanted to be, but he just isn't. About the only chance we'll ever get to see him at his very best will be this upcoming year due to him playing for a contract that takes him into retirement at big dollars.


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## Yega1979 (Mar 22, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>STOMP</b>!
> 
> 
> Terrible- how are you privy to Sheed's work out schedule (or lack there of). I'm sure you must be true insight to his life and aren't talking out your arrssss when you say that he hasn't been going to the gym for the last three years, so please, whats your source? Do you know the Blazer trainers? If what you say is true (that he doesn't lift weights at the gym much), do you know who he would be like? Mike. MJ never lifted weights regularly, and never took nutrition seriously either according to those that covered him while in Chicago. It seems that you feel that Bball players must work out in the gym to be the best player they can be, but somehow Mike did OK.
> ...


Stomp, it's pretty common knowledge that Sheed doesn't workout. Mike Rice and others that are close with the team have mentioned it from time to time. It's also known that he doesn't work out during the summer, he sits around and plays video games.


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## Tommyboy (Jan 3, 2003)

and smokes the herb

dont' forget the herb


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## jackiejackal (Nov 7, 2002)

*rasheed wallace courtside*

particularly ed ..hope you are listening

this is what they are saying tonight about him

no show
no call
not enough points
poor attitude
not gonna change now
can't find him
they have needed more for long time
doesn't step up
etc..
i will quit editing this..it will be too long..

and they just started talking about him.:laugh:


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

Actually, I haven't been listening because my sound card is broken.

And who said that Rasheed can be changed? Not me. Whether he's all of the things you list or not, he's still the Blazers' best player and unless we can get another player that can do the things he can it's going to be a move backwards.

I guess I can't really counter their points because I haven't heard them, and I'm not sure that you can string together intelligible enough sentences to use as a basis 

Ed O.


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## jackiejackal (Nov 7, 2002)

*ed..*

you are very interesting.
I notice the shoe is on the other foot on other email groups..
you look pretty tough here..

is there any thing positive you can say about me??

like my moniker??

love it that i have been a fan since 1976 ?

love it that i keep coming back to take it on the other cheek?

and i am still here ,despite your insults??

they say that the posts here should not be personal,yet you go
on day after day insulting me..

keep em coming ed..
whatever makes you feel important..


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

*Re: ed..*



> Originally posted by <b>jackiejackal</b>!
> you are very interesting.
> I notice the shoe is on the other foot on other email groups..
> you look pretty tough here..


Um. What? 

(1) What do you mean by "tough"? I don't get what you mean.

(2) The only other group I'm even on is BLT, and I think you can ask people there (and some of the people are active on this board, including Hap, who recently left) whether I've been able to hold my own in the last decade that I've been on it. I'm not as active on it any more because I don't have time to be. I'm trying to think if you're talking about a non-Blazers group that I'm in, but I just don't know what you're talking about if it's not BLT.

Ed O.


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## jackiejackal (Nov 7, 2002)

*you have softened picking on people on other groups*

Because there are a couple people who can dish it right back..

Your insult on my stringing it together or whatever you said
was uncalled for.
Too bad that you get away with personal attacks.

I am asking you again.
Please stop personal attacks.
Please stop the comments about me that have nothing to do with
basketball.

STOP IT !!!!!!!!

If I met you in public life,I can assure you I wouldn't like you Ed.
I find you overbearing even in email...let alone face to face.
That's as personal as I will get.

again,stop !
you are not the expert here.


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## . (Jun 30, 2003)

*Re: i had to say something in this thread*



> Originally posted by <b>jackiejackal</b>!
> "sheed is still quite a capable player to build your franchise around"
> 
> BINGO !
> ...


HA HA HA HA HA all you want, yup exactly, i said "HES STILL QUITE A CAPABLE PLAYER TO BUILD YOUR TEAM AROUND", notice i use words "QUITE CAPABLE", i am not suggest that hes a mega superstar you can have on your team, i am saying hes the best thing portland has so far, yeah scottie pippen "IS" the star here, he shines only because on the presence of sheed, as being a second option, he has never really prove that he can handle the responsibility and pressure as being the "MAN", hes at best a complementry player only and if thats how you consider the definition for "STAR" then so be it

will portland be a better team if they build around scottie pippen ?? i dont think som as a matter of fact it will be much worse, yeah you are right, you could count on his "SMART" to win, yes as a "COMPLEMENTRY PLAYER" and not the "MAIN GUY".
to even suggest pippen as the "STAR" in the team and not "SHEED" is just "LAUGHABLE".


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## Terrible (Jan 3, 2003)

Don't worry about it Jackie, I'm sure this is the only place in life that Ed feels powerful!

"I guess I can't really counter their points because I haven't heard them, and I'm not sure you can string intelligible enough sentences to use as a basis." 

ED, that is an arssshoooole thing to say to anyone! If you said that to me face to face I'd kick your arrogant arsss. The mods should be jumping on you for being that pompous especially to a lady! Would you talk to your mom or wife like that? You get off on trying to slam peoples intellect, I for one have noticed it and it obviously has hurt Jackies feelings. Big man aren't you?

 

Does the happy face make you think it's not an insult? 

You owe her an apology!:upset:


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## jackiejackal (Nov 7, 2002)

*reading class 101*

I never said that the way you worded that...you are wrong.!
You made it sound like I said keep Scottie because he is /was the star IN PLACE OF sheed.

I said,and will stand by the statement that Sheed has never been
a star here,and that the only real star we have had in years is Scottie Pippen.

And yes,I would put the ball in Scottie's hand,old or not
every time over Sheed.

That's my definition of a star.

He will go down fighting.

What's so funny about that???

Sheed is not a capable player to be a star,let alone superstar.
Now that is LAUGHABLE

I read my post again and would not change one thing.

You are not a Scottie Pippen fan,or what??

WHAT HAPPENED TO THIS TEAM WHEN SCOTTIE WAS INJURED
WHAT HAPPENED TO THIS TEAM WITH RASHEED BENCHED?

answer that..
and those wins were on the road..
Portland couldn't win at home with Sheed here and Scottie gone.

18 MILLION DOLLARS IS ALOT OF MONEY FOR HIM.


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## hasoos (Jan 3, 2003)

*Yea, yea and if you believe he is waking up*

1. I have this nice little bridge in Brooklyn I would like to sell you.
2. Yea yea that's the ticket, yea...Sheed's waking up, yea yea and he's gonna.....win the Blazers a championship...yea....and Morgain Fairchild is gonna be a Blazer Dancer...*Whom I've slept with*...Yea that's the ticket. <---SNL Liar imitation if you haven't ever seen John Lovitts as the liar..


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

keep it nice folks.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Terrible</b>!
> 
> You owe her an apology!:upset:


Is your post a joke, Terrible? I can't tell.

Are you denying that JJ's post that I responded to wasn't comprised of a single sentence (no capitalization, no significant punctuation)?

Are you denying that Jackie has passed misiniformation like "Aleksandar Pavlovic was drafted ahead of Travis Outlaw" within the last week, thereby rendering everything that she posts (from a factual perspective) suspect?

Are you denying that all posters should be treated equally based on their ideas and abilities, rather than on their sex or race?

You might deny this and more, and you might assert that this is the only place that I feel "powerful", but I submit that you would be wrong on all counts.

As far as threatening me with bodily harm: VERY nice.

Ed O.


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## . (Jun 30, 2003)

*Re: reading class 101*



> Originally posted by <b>jackiejackal</b>!
> I never said that the way you worded that...you are wrong.!
> You made it sound like I said keep Scottie because he is /was the star IN PLACE OF sheed.
> 
> ...


yeah buddy in your own little world sheed is not a "STAR", which he already is with the "BLZERS", and argubly is the closest thing to a "SUPERSTAR" for this blazers organization, if you dont consider him as a "STAR" then you can stick with your opionion, people have freedom to think whatever they want even though they are clearly "WRONG", you can go ahead and ask anyone in this forum "IS SHEED CAPABLE OF BEING A STAR ??", and 10 out of 10 times you will get "YES HES A STAR IN THIS TEAM", go ahead and ask if you dont believe me, and i am sure those guys know more basketball than you, and as for that matter, scottie pippen is one of my favourite players, that has nothing to do with sheed being the "BEST PLAYER" on this portland trail blazers team, now tell me whos the best player in this team, sheed or pippen ?? i am sure sheed is more capable than pip being the first option, pip is the inspirational leader as a second option and he will be at best as a supporting cast rather than the main focus.


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## Tommyboy (Jan 3, 2003)

Ed, we can all fall back on technicalities to support our position, even when its wrong.

you were wrong to insinuate that Jackie couldn't put together "intelligible" sentences.

the day we fall back on punctuation and diction on this board is the day this board is ruined. Don't go there, otherwise the punctuation police will be all over virtually every post. That is just weak on your part, truly weak. 

If you don't have the balls to apologize for being rude, then just admit it. Don't fall back on the punctuation police to support your belittling position. 

I for one will consider virtually every post you make from here on out as irrelevant considering you intentionally insulted the intelligence of another poster based on punctuation and then refused to admit it and furthermore refuse to own up to it like a man and just say sorry.

reach down between your legs and check to see if you're still a man.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Tommyboy</b>!
> Ed, we can all fall back on technicalities to support our position, even when its wrong.


So what? The fact that _part_ of my argument was based on a "technicality" (if you count writing in complete thoughts and using correct grammar and punctuation to be a "technicality") doesn't make my position "wrong".

She was making a point to *me* (she called me out, in particular), and then rattled off a bunch of fragments like she was saying something meaningful. My argument was that I couldn't dispute those points because they were incomplete and I can't trust that she will be careful enough to tell me what was really said. 

Why can't I trust her? Because she's often wrong whenever she actually deigns to post "facts" and because anyone who's so sloppy in their writing that carriage returns outnumber their capitalized letters and proper punctuations by a factor of 12 might not take the time to actually think and remember correctly what was said on the radio.



> you were wrong to insinuate that Jackie couldn't put together "intelligible" sentences.


I don't know why you put quotes around intelligible. She wasn't writing in complete sentences, I didn't know what she was saying, and I think my distrust of her ability to accurately explain what CMN folks said was well-founded and I stand by it. It's not really an insinuation. It's my opinion, and it's well-supported by a decent body of evidence.



> the day we fall back on punctuation and diction on this board is the day this board is ruined. Don't go there, otherwise the punctuation police will be all over virtually every post. That is just weak on your part, truly weak.


Yeah... diction's not important at all. It's great when people can't express themselves. Who cares what they actually say, or how long it takes to distill what they actually mean? As long as the people feel free to say whatever they want, whether it makes sense or is supported at all: that's what it's all about! And all opinions are entirely free from criticism of any kind!

Please. If people want to rant, they can do it. If they want to make up things: cool, but they're probably going to called on it by someone on the board.

If someone calls out a poster like they're making a great point and/or the media is somehow backing them up, they should at LEAST express themselves clearly. 



> If you don't have the balls to apologize for being rude, then just admit it. Don't fall back on the punctuation police to support your belittling position.


What is with all the testosterone around here tonight? It takes "balls" to apologize? Give me a break.

And I should apologize for being rude to jackie? On the same page she sarcastically called STOMP a "genius"? And then was whining about "personal attacks" because I poked fun at her general inability to communicate at a level I consider to be intelligent?

IMO, either it's a technicality, and so it shouldn't matter (and therefore is not "rude") or it's true (and therefore isn't "rude").



> I for one will consider virtually every post you make from here on out as irrelevant considering you intentionally insulted the intelligence of another poster based on punctuation and then refused to admit it and furthermore refuse to own up to it like a man and just say sorry.


Fantastic. Again with the misogyny. Do you think it's your turn to apologize? 



> reach down between your legs and check to see if you're still a man.


And one for the road. A nice hat trick!

It doesn't take a "man" to apologize. It takes someone thinking they're wrong, and once they think they're wrong owning up to it. I don't think that I am wrong either substantively or procedurally. Threatening me physically (as Terrible did) or questioning my manhood (as you did several times) is not going to change my mind.

Ed O.


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## trifecta (Oct 10, 2002)

Holy smokes people!

One talks of punctuation as the death of a forum. I would argue that it's actually several valuable active participants nitpicking each other that's the true cause of death!

If the glove don't fit....

Oh, wait.... Wrong one....

Can't we all just get along?


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

Ok, this post is quickly moving into areas we best not go. So, this thread is deader than tank-tops!

closed for the winter


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