# Game 67 Thread: Lakers vs. Magic



## Pinball (Aug 3, 2002)

I'll give my man BC a day off. 

<center>








Los Angeles Lakers (43-22, 2nd Place)
vs.









Orlando Magic (19-49, Last Place)


Monday, Mar. 15
10:30 PM EST, 7:30 PM for you Cali guys 
at Lakers 

*Starting Lineups:*

    
vs.
 

</center>

Should be fun. Kobe vs. TMac is a great matchup. I'm sure everyone will be keeping a close eye on Shaq vs. DeClerq too. Andrew does a great job against him. He'll only get posterized 5-6 times.


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## Cris (Jun 18, 2003)

he got yesterday off too, whats with that
lakers 103- Magic 84


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## DaUnbreakableKinG (Jun 28, 2003)

Lakers 121 - 97 Magic 

Kobe 43pts 

Tmac 19pts


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## JT (Mar 1, 2004)

that tmac vs kobe stuff? it won't be happening this season.

goshdamn this is one of the most unfair nba matchups i have ever seen though. tmac will have like 3 guys on him every time he touches the ball. doesn't look good for him...if i was him, i'd pray to naismith that one of his teammates play out of their mind.

...

well, i'll get tmacs straps ready, you guys ready the switch. :meditate:


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## JGKoblenz (Jul 19, 2002)

Forget T-Mac vs Kobe, the matchup to watch is:

Stevenson vs Fox

This might be exciting.


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## Ghiman (May 19, 2003)

The Lakers are gonna come into this game overconfident and probably get their ***** handed to them. 

Magic 114
Lakers 101


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## Ben1 (May 20, 2003)

*Prediction*

105-90 Lakers

Kobe: 30 pts
T-Mac: 40 pts


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ghiman</b>!
> The Lakers are gonna come into this game overconfident and probably get their ***** handed to them.
> 
> Magic 114
> Lakers 101


Not at home.


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## Pinball (Aug 3, 2002)

*Re: Prediction*



> Originally posted by <b>Ben</b>!
> 105-90 Lakers
> 
> Kobe: 30 pts
> T-Mac: 40 pts


Sounds good to me. Maybe we should let TMac get off early. Let him get 30 in the first half so he thinks he has a chance at 70. Anything to distract him from the objective of the game.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> 
> 
> Not at home.


Nevermind, you're right. We're getting our asses whooped. Of course, Phil wouldn't think of putting Shaq or Kobe on the floor. Oh no, let's have George and Walton out there and see what they can do.

:no:


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## Hov (Aug 12, 2003)

Not looking good so far.. And WTF is wrong with Phil's subbing patterns???
Why was Karl out there with only bench players and waits until theres 7 min left in the 2nd to bring back Shaq and Kobe? :upset:


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## Pinball (Aug 3, 2002)

*Re: Re: Prediction*



> Originally posted by <b>Pinball</b>!
> 
> 
> Sounds good to me. Maybe we should let TMac get off early. Let him get 30 in the first half so he thinks he has a chance at 70. Anything to distract him from the objective of the game.


I see that my master plan is working. :laugh:


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## KokoTheMonkey (Aug 4, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>DaUnbreakableKinG</b>!
> Lakers 121 - 97 Magic
> 
> Kobe 43pts
> ...



McGrady has more than 19 with another half to go, while Kobe has 1 point at the time I'm writing this.


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## Cris (Jun 18, 2003)

isnt PJ the best Coach ever?????


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## Hov (Aug 12, 2003)

Why is Kobe being so passive?! Is it because of what Phil said after the Bulls game? Is his shoulder bothering him? I just dont get it. 
It's seeming more and more like that the Lakers are becoming HIS team now. DAMNIT KOBE, BE MORE AGGRESSIVE! :sigh:
He's playing some good D versus TMac though (with the help of some double-teams of course)


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## TheRifleman (May 20, 2002)

Interesting game and more fun to watch than the 1 on TNT. I love directv.


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## KokoTheMonkey (Aug 4, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>TheRifleman</b>!
> Interesting game and more fun to watch than the 1 on TNT. I love directv.



I'm having "fun" watching the Duncan-less Spurs get spanked by the hapless Warriors on TNT.:sigh:


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## samdge (Feb 3, 2004)

WTF is Kareem doing, he's good and all, but Kobe is sizzling, why the hell doesnt he pass, and if we grabbed a rebound once ever 2 minutes we'd be winning ahhhhhhhhh and pass the ball to kobe and shaq. Sorry i am just venting my anger
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH:upset: :upset: :upset: :upset: :upset: :upset:


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## spiraling (Feb 16, 2003)

we got some of the best passers in the league and we only got 4asts from GP and KB. WTH is going on here man.


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## The_Franchise (Mar 30, 2003)

Kobe is having a statement game. T-Mac has 39 points, but all eyes are on Kobe. After floundering around for the first 3 quarters, Kobe begins to play on a level above everyone else on the floor. It's this ability that makes him much more Jordan-esque than TMac.

Close to 24 points in the 4th quarter to tie up the game.


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## KokoTheMonkey (Aug 4, 2003)

Does Kobe have 30+ point just in the second half? Damn.


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## spiraling (Feb 16, 2003)

what happen to B.Cook?


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## BallBiologist (Mar 29, 2003)

Highest paying job in the NBA, being a referee w/ all the extra money they get from the Lakers....:upset:


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## Pinball (Aug 3, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Prediction*



> Originally posted by <b>Pinball</b>!
> 
> 
> I see that my master plan is working. :laugh:


I guess it worked after all. :laugh: This game is going to OT. Go figure. :whoknows:


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## samdge (Feb 3, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>courtside</b>!
> Highest paying job in the NBA, being a referee w/ all the extra money they get from the Lakers....:upset:


You may not have watched the game, but just as many calls went against the lakers as they did for. The end of the game for example, Karl Malone.... ring any bells?


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## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

Jesus christ, how bad are the Magic... Thats so dispicible...


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

Kobe Bryant is incredible, that is all I have to say.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>courtside</b>!
> Highest paying job in the NBA, being a referee w/ all the extra money they get from the Lakers....:upset:


OMG, shut the hell up. Malone got so obviously fouled on the Lakers last play in regulation. Every time the Lakers win in a close game, people ***** and moan. We've seriously had enough of this bull****. Get the hell out.


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## Brian34Cook (Mar 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>spiraling</b>!
> what happen to B.Cook?


Myself or Brian? :rofl:


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

P.S. We finally have the 3rd seed.:yes:


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## BallBiologist (Mar 29, 2003)

Oh pleaseee.... what about the 10 horrible calls in a row that allowed the Lakers to even GET BACK INTO the game.....

BTW, your team's Free throw performance is the worst I have seen in a single game..


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## BallBiologist (Mar 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> 
> 
> OMG, shut the hell up. Malone got so obviously fouled on the Lakers last play in regulation. Every time the Lakers win in a close game, people ***** and moan. We've seriously had enough of this bull****. Get the hell out.


You wonder why people complain...its because its TRUE..thats why everyone complains..


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

Just one amazing stat in this game...

The game was 53 minutes long, and the Lakers had *7* turnovers. The Magic only had 11.


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## HallOfFamer (May 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> Kobe Bryant is incredible, that is all I have to say.


:yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: 

I thought Tmac was the best 2 guard in the league, but the way Tmac was bothered when Kobe was playing him, and the ease Kobe had when Tmac was guarding him makes me change my mind.

The offense is the same between those two, but the defense is what seprates them, and Kobe is better at defense by alot.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>courtside</b>!
> 
> 
> You wonder why people complain...its because its TRUE..thats why everyone complains..


G-O H-O-M-E

If it's so true and it happens every game that the Lakers play in, why bother to ***** and moan when it happens? I would have thought you would have gotten used to it by now.

The Magic blew an 18 point lead, you can't be stupid enough to blame that on the refs.


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## HallOfFamer (May 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>courtside</b>!
> BTW, your team's Free throw performance is the worst I have seen in a single game..


BTW, that 4th quarter Magic peformance is the worst ive seen since the last Magic-Laker game.:laugh: :laugh:


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## BallBiologist (Mar 29, 2003)

I admit, Kobe Bryant played extremely well but he got away with a little too much aggressive pressure which he shouldn't have....


Built up the momentum and just drained 1 on 1 jumpers..

while on the other hand..the magic had trouble getting the basket to mcgrady in the first place...and not only that but he would have to run across court just to get a shot while being double teamed....


And you just don't allow someone (SHAQ) wrap their hounds around someone (mcgrady) and not allow him to move around like that..its a FOUL..I think the refs need to go take some referee classes.


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## shobe42 (Jun 21, 2002)

Kobe v.s. McGrady 

two very talented players, great great players

1 superstar 
1 champ

it's no more than jordan v.s. drexler


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## BallBiologist (Mar 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>HallOfFamer</b>!
> 
> :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes:
> 
> ...


LOL...McGrady had 5 fouls....and if he played defense the same way Kobe was playing...he would've been called for a foul....and actually WAS when McGrady was pressuring Kobe the way Kobe pressured him on the other end of the floor..


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## JT (Mar 1, 2004)

nice win by the refs there, i thought the magic had them for a moment but it seemed the refs were toying with em


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## JT (Mar 1, 2004)

and stop with the jordan drexler comparisions. different era, wake up already.


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## BallBiologist (Mar 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>HallOfFamer</b>!
> 
> 
> BTW, that 4th quarter Magic peformance is the worst ive seen since the last Magic-Laker game.:laugh: :laugh:


Lets see...when a coach keeps Tyron Lue on the floor who misses 3 wide open 3 pointers....and also turns it over for no reason when he isn't even in trouble...thats pathetic..


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## BallBiologist (Mar 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>shobe42</b>!
> Kobe v.s. McGrady
> 
> two very talented players, great great players
> ...


Lets see...on a team with 3 other all-stars and great roleplayers... Kobe Bryant is going to be the on the team w/ champs..

Look at the teams before you even go there.. 

McGrady could easily do what Kobe does on a team like that...but Kobe would be just like McGrady or less if he was on a team like the Magic..


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## HallOfFamer (May 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>courtside</b>!
> 
> 
> LOL...McGrady had 5 fouls....and if he played defense the same way Kobe was playing...he would've been called for a foul....and actually WAS when McGrady was pressuring Kobe the way Kobe pressured him on the other end of the floor..


It wasnt only the 4th, when Kobe was put on McGrady at the end of the 2nd, he was clearly bothered by him. It was hard for Tmac to get a shot off when Kobe was on him.


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## BallBiologist (Mar 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> 
> 
> G-O H-O-M-E
> ...


Well considering that if there are 5+ bad calls in a row siding w/ the Lakers...it builds up the momentum and allows them to get back into the game and gets the fans involved...a lot of factors there...yahh...


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## BallBiologist (Mar 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>HallOfFamer</b>!
> 
> 
> It wasnt only the 4th, when Kobe was put on McGrady at the end of the 2nd, he was clearly bothered by him. It was hard for Tmac to get a shot off when Kobe was on him.


Yeah I saw that.... but McGrady was on fire the 1st 2 quarters of the game and there was another guy helping Kobe defend McGrady if necesssary..how do you think McGrady got 8 assists in the 1st half?


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## Pinball (Aug 3, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Brian34Cook</b>!
> 
> 
> Myself or Brian? :rofl:


I'm starting to believe you're one and the same.


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## samdge (Feb 3, 2004)

Kobe Bryant is flat out amazing, i was undecided who was the better player between Kobe an T-Mac but after tonight Kobe gets the edge. That was one of the best induvidual 4th quarter performances i have ever seen. He may have 3 superstars on his team but tonights fourth quarter was all him, and for all those that disbelieve, i don't think t-mac could have done the same thing if he was in the same situation.


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## HallOfFamer (May 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>courtside</b>!
> 
> 
> Yeah I saw that.... but McGrady was on fire the 1st 2 quarters of the game and there was another guy helping Kobe defend McGrady if necesssary..how do you think McGrady got 8 assists in the 1st half?


When Fox and Russell were getting put on TMac, they were getting burned. The way Kobe fights through the pick and rolls, and the way he just bothers Tmac really makes a difference.


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## Lynx (Mar 6, 2004)

COME ON LAKERS!

That was truly thumping stuff from Kobe. He had only 1 point in the first half, scored 37 pts in the second. This guy never fails to impress me and the Lakeshow fans.

Good game by Shaq and Payton as well. Mailman was off the touch, but no worries. He's starting to get together himself.


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## Johnny Mac (May 6, 2003)

courtside, you do know you're in the Laker forum right? You gotta pick your spots and find a place to debate where your responses will be seen by people who arent bias due to their favorite player/team being involved. Otherwise you'll be just trying to catch up with all those disagreeing with you, and you will end up defending yourself more than being able to stress your point. 

Kobe vs. Tmac did not dissappoint, both guys hit big shots and had huge games.


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## shobe42 (Jun 21, 2002)

in 10 years from now all of the nba can talk about how the refs helped the Lakers cheat, and the kings would have won if this happened and mcGrady would have been the best player if this happened.

laker fans can just look at the titles and kobe and shaq and there are no "ifs"


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## BallBiologist (Mar 29, 2003)

Doesn't matter.. I'm going to laugh when someone other than the Lakers gets the....

Oh wait.. i won't say it yet until the playoffs are over.. 

I just know its not going to be that simple with the Kings playing so well...along with San Antonio out there..


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## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>samdge</b>!
> Kobe Bryant is flat out amazing, i was undecided who was the better player between Kobe an T-Mac but after tonight Kobe gets the edge. That was one of the best induvidual 4th quarter performances i have ever seen. He may have 3 superstars on his team but tonights fourth quarter was all him, and for all those that disbelieve, i don't think t-mac could have done the same thing if he was in the same situation.


Thats an unfair assumption... While Kobe gets one on one play every game and down the stretch (as you witnessed tonight) T-Mac gets double and triple teamed so T-Mac can give the ball to Lue so he can shoot (as we saw the multiple wide open airballs Lue took)


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## Lynx (Mar 6, 2004)

*Exactly - It's a Champions' Heart*

<center>










</center>


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## The_Franchise (Mar 30, 2003)




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## BallBiologist (Mar 29, 2003)

*Re: Exactly - It's a Champions' Heart*



> Originally posted by <b>Lynx</b>!
> <center>
> 
> 
> ...


Hahaha..what a smart Laker fan... Kobe's ...hahaa..no wonder why Lakers fans are so 'smart'..

2 grammar mistakes...:no:


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## shobe42 (Jun 21, 2002)

*Re: Re: Exactly - It's a Champions' Heart*



> Originally posted by <b>courtside</b>!
> 
> 
> Hahaha..what a smart Laker fan... Kobe's ...hahaa..no wonder why Lakers fans are so 'smart'..
> ...


you actually should have said "Laker fans" not Laker*s* fans
grammar boy


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## BallBiologist (Mar 29, 2003)

*Re: Re: Re: Exactly - It's a Champions' Heart*



> Originally posted by <b>shobe42</b>!
> 
> 
> you actually should have said "Laker fans" not Laker*s* fans
> grammar boy


My bad..I'm so use to Orlando Magic not Orlando Magics..by the way.. I DID say it properly the 1st time....


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## Pinball (Aug 3, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>John The Cool Kid</b>!
> courtside, you do know you're in the Laker forum right? You gotta pick your spots and find a place to debate where your responses will be seen by people who arent bias due to their favorite player/team being involved. Otherwise you'll be just trying to catch up with all those disagreeing with you, and you will end up defending yourself more than being able to stress your point.


I would take it to the Spurs forum but I'm afraid that no one would reply seeing as to how you've got about 3 active posters there.


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## shobe42 (Jun 21, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Exactly - It's a Champions' Heart*



> Originally posted by <b>courtside</b>!
> 
> 
> My bad..I'm so use to Orlando Magic not Orlando Magics..by the way.. I DID say it properly the 1st time....


i hate when people attack grammar so i had to getchya for it. no big deal though


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## The MAgiC (Aug 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> 
> 
> OMG, shut the hell up. Malone got so obviously fouled on the Lakers last play in regulation. Every time the Lakers win in a close game, people ***** and moan. We've seriously had enough of this bull****. Get the hell out.


Maybe you should unbunch your panties before coming on the board next time. The refs gave you the game like usual.


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## Johnny Mac (May 6, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Pinball</b>!
> I would take it to the Spurs forum but I'm afraid that no one would reply seeing as to how you've got about 3 active posters there.


I'm actually a Bulls fan. Thats where most of my posts are besides the general NBA forum. Although I havent posted there for a bit because they are just dreadful right now and theres no point. The threads over there are pretty repetitive. Not to mention, the optimism the Bulls fans had last offseason is having a reverse effect this season. A ton of Bulls fans over there just pick apart everything the Bulls do no matter what.


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## The Ballatician PDM$ (Jul 16, 2002)

Courtisde..you remind me of a toilet man..cuz your so full of issssh!! (and no im not taking it personal against you..just your remarks) and if it wasn't so late..I'd be taking you courtside and working you like Kobe worked your Magic. But that's aiight doe mein.. Ima be here tommorow so if there's anything you wanna leave for me..then be my guest. 

Some of these arguments ya'll got are such a disaster that red cross wouldn't serve ya'll mofo's coffee! 

Some of these excuses are played out like Atari..Cross Coulours and Parachute pants!

Got a pimp tellin himself "this foo got to be out his Cot Damn mind talking like dat" Got a pimp all worked up while he fillin his fingernails. Got a pimp angry enough to make me go wake up my prostitute in the middle of a deep sleep and slap the hell out her and let her know how come she ain't got a hold of you today and put a smile on ya face and ya mind back in place.

Oh man.

Get at me tommorow hommie. Will see was realllly!


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

Get used to it, fans of non-winning teams or rival teams have always whined and moaned about how unfair the refs are. You just laugh at it and get over it, they never take the time to make a logical argument anyway, that should be the first tip off. We have most whiny Magic fans here complaining about their sorry team losing a 19 point lead all by themselves and a Spurs fan (sorry, "Bulls" fan), who thinks Kobe isn't clutch, trying to act like he knows squat about basketball on or off the court. 

Hey, if the Lakers are healthy this season and win it all, expect more of the same, like "Lakers are handed their 4th title in 5 years". Though the haters usually die down when the rings come, because it's just too hard to say with a straight face that a title was handed to them.


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## quick (Feb 13, 2004)

Kobe wasn't that great at defending mcgrady like some people are saying he is.He had help guarding tmac, like someone said tmac gets double teamed to triple teamed alot while kobe has more opportunities for one on one plays because someone can cover up for him.


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## Ron Mexico (Feb 14, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>courtside</b>!
> Doesn't matter.. I'm going to laugh when someone other than the Lakers gets the....
> 
> Oh wait.. i won't say it yet until the playoffs are over..
> ...


won't the Lakers fans just laugh when the Orlando Magic get eliminated in the playoffs oh wait 19-50 I forgot


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## Wilt_The_Stilt (Jun 7, 2002)

One-Armed man punks One-Eyed man... I love it.


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## BallBiologist (Mar 29, 2003)

Its pretty PATHETIC that the Lakers didn't blow the second worst team in the NBA. NOT ONLY were the Lakers down by 19 but the Magic are TANKING AND STILL were up by 19.... I gaurantee you that if the Magic were actually trying to win (in the 8 seeds of the east)....they WOULD have WON because they would have something to play for (a win)..but they really don't care right now. Lakers giving it their best and only winning by 2 is what I call pathetic.


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## Ben1 (May 20, 2003)

> Kobe Bryant outscored the Orlando Magic 24-14 in the fourth quarter on Monday night to help the Lakers, who trailed by 19 points, force overtime against Orlando and win 113-110. Bryant had the Lakers' final 15 points and 24 of their 29 in the quarter. He tied a franchise record for points in a quarter set by Elgin Baylor in 1960 and tied by Jerry West two years later.


Link


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## shobe42 (Jun 21, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>courtside</b>!
> Its pretty PATHETIC that the Lakers didn't blow the second worst team in the NBA. NOT ONLY were the Lakers down by 19 but the Magic are TANKING AND STILL were up by 19.... I gaurantee you that if the Magic were actually trying to win (in the 8 seeds of the east)....they WOULD have WON because they would have something to play for (a win)..but they really don't care right now. Lakers giving it their best and only winning by 2 is what I call pathetic.



ur serious. now the magic arent trying to win. in the past few days you've said this every excuse imaginable.

u even said u know mcgrady could shoot good if he had open clutch shots like kobe cuz he makes his shootaround 3's!!!????

u serioursly have to be one of the most rediculously bias posters i have ever seen.


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## Ghiman (May 19, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Ben</b>!
> 
> Kobe Bryant outscored the Orlando Magic 24-14 in the fourth quarter on Monday night to help the Lakers, who trailed by 19 points, force overtime against Orlando and win 113-110. Bryant had the Lakers' final 15 points and 24 of their 29 in the quarter. He tied a franchise record for points in a quarter set by Elgin Baylor in 1960 and tied by Jerry West two years later.
> 
> Link


:greatjob: Thanks for the link.

BTW, i didnt think the Lakers were gonna pull through, but i'm glad they won.


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## Pinball (Aug 3, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>courtside</b>!
> Its pretty PATHETIC that the Lakers didn't blow the second worst team in the NBA. NOT ONLY were the Lakers down by 19 but the Magic are TANKING AND STILL were up by 19.... I gaurantee you that if the Magic were actually trying to win (in the 8 seeds of the east)....they WOULD have WON because they would have something to play for (a win)..but they really don't care right now. Lakers giving it their best and only winning by 2 is what I call pathetic.


I like how you mention that 19 point lead so often in your post. The number 19 is pretty symbolic in Orlando these days isn't it? Not only does it represent the total number of wins your team has this season but it also represents the numbers of games your team lost in a row at one point.


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## Ghiman (May 19, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Pinball</b>!
> I like how you mention that 19 point lead so often in your post. The number 19 is pretty symbolic in Orlando these days isn't it? Not only does it represent the total number of wins your team has this season but it also represents the numbers of games your team lost in a row at one point.


Classic :laugh:


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## DaUnbreakableKinG (Jun 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>KokoTheMonkey</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> McGrady has more than 19 with another half to go, while Kobe has 1 point at the time I'm writing this.


Kobe with 38 so I guess I knew what I was talking about. :yes: 

Once again I'm right. Kobe proved me right. He is better then Tmac.


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## KokoTheMonkey (Aug 4, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Pinball</b>!
> 
> 
> I would take it to the Spurs forum but I'm afraid that no one would reply seeing as to how you've got about 3 active posters there.



Hey, I'm a fighter, so I'm ready to defend my Spurs even though there's about 5 total fans on this site.


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## Pinball (Aug 3, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>KokoTheMonkey</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> Hey, I'm a fighter, so I'm ready to defend my Spurs even though there's about 5 total fans on this site.


:argue: :boxing: :starwars: :rocket:


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## jstempi (Jul 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>SacKings384</b>!
> Thats an unfair assumption... While Kobe gets one on one play every game and down the stretch (as you witnessed tonight) T-Mac gets double and triple teamed so T-Mac can give the ball to Lue so he can shoot (as we saw the multiple wide open airballs Lue took)





> Originally posted by <b>quick</b>!
> Kobe wasn't that great at defending mcgrady like some people are saying he is.He had help guarding tmac, like someone said tmac gets double teamed to triple teamed alot while kobe has more opportunities for one on one plays because someone can cover up for him.


Two posts about arguments I hear quite often about this Kobe vs. TMac debate all too often. Unfortunately, these arguments indicate that the posters have no idea about what they are talking about.

As I see it, Kobe may get "one on one play" and TMac gets doubled, but TMac is usually bouncing off screens so he gets a lot of wide open shots. Kobe doesn't get any screens set for him unless its a last second shot, so if you really knew anything about basketball, you'd see that Kobe is at least equal to Tmac in this regard since Tmac is making predominantly wide open shots from bouncing off screens while Kobe actually has a defender on him. Sure, Tmac makes plenty in his defenders' face, but so does Kobe...the difference is Kobe gets most of his points with a defender on him while Tmac gets most of his after ditching his defender on a screen and getting a wide open shot. Its different situations and if the roles were reversed I think they'd be close to mirror images on offense. The difference, however, comes on defense and how clutch they are when it matters.

Kobe had help on Tmac, certainly, he also was playing defense with one arm and had to be extra careful about screens so he didnt get hit on his shoulder. Kobe would have done better if healthy but the traps/double teams would have still been necessary. Tmac couldn't contain Kobe, that was evident. It was the Magic coach's decision not to double/trap Kobe so all cannot be blamed on Tmac's D. But I think it's fair to say that Kobe played as good on D as Tmac with only one arm and might have played D much better if he didn't have to be extra careful about screens.


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## mavsman (Jun 11, 2003)

Kobe was absolutely fantastic on both offense and defense. And
maybe he played so inspired that he alone deserved to win the
game.

But with that said, there is not even a slight doubt that the Lakers
received so many more calls in thier favor than the
Magic did. It was bordering on ridiculous. The were holding,
grabbing, slapping. Shaq just knocks T-Mac to the floor on the
drive which he scored and there is no call. On the last shot in
regulation Shaq just grabs T-Macs arms to stop him from getting
to the ball and the refs just swallow thier whistle.

Here is my theory on the Lakers and how and why they seem to
get all the calls in crunch time:

1. The refs are so afraid to be the one to influence the game in
crucial times that they are hesitant to make any calls.

2. The Lakers being one of the most physical teams in the league
know this and really start getting ultra physical in the 4th quarter
because they know the refs are going to "Let them play".

3. Since the Lakers are being more physical than the opponent
they are getting away with many more fouls than thier opponent.

4. This of course is frustrating to the opponent and gets the Lakers
really going so they have alot of 4th quarter comebacks.

I don't blame the Lakers or even think that thier is a league bias
toward them although it appears that way to most of us who
hate the Lakers.

The problem is with the refs and thier reluctance to call a consistant
game throughout. Until this is addressed the Lakers are going to
continue to beat people up in the 4th quarter of games and
seemingly get most of the calls.

The refs reluctance to make any calls during a last shot type
sitiuation makes me say that teams should do just about everything
short of tackling the guy with ball to stop the last second shot.

The refs are such cowards that they are not going to call it.


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## thrice911 (Jul 15, 2002)

Hey mavsman your pro-laker referee theory is the first one that I actually may agree with. I have also noticed that the referees seem to let teams play harder and more physical late in games. Two examples this season that I recall are the Mavs-Spurs game when the mavs where making a huge comeback but Finley was ejected after the dirtbag Bruce Bowen punched him in the stomach and the Mavs seemed to get frustrated with all the physical play of the Spurs. Even though the refs were calling a alot of fouls in the fourth quarter, they waited too long to start calling fouls and the Mavs lost mostly because of the spurs' physical play. 
Probably a better example is the last Laker-Jazz game where the Lakers also lost due mostly to the physical nature of the Jazz and the lack of fouls called imo. I think that the Jazz, Lakers, and Spurs are the most physical teams in the league and would benefit most from the lack of late calls.


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## KokoTheMonkey (Aug 4, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>thrice911</b>!
> Hey mavsman your pro-laker referee theory is the first one that I actually may agree with. I have also noticed that the referees seem to let teams play harder and more physical late in games. Two examples this season that I recall are the Mavs-Spurs game when the mavs where making a huge comeback but Finley was ejected after the dirtbag Bruce Bowen punched him in the stomach and the Mavs seemed to get frustrated with all the physical play of the Spurs. Even though the refs were calling a alot of fouls in the fourth quarter, they waited too long to start calling fouls and the Mavs lost mostly because of the spurs' physical play.
> Probably a better example is the last Laker-Jazz game where the Lakers also lost due mostly to the physical nature of the Jazz and the lack of fouls called imo. I think that the Jazz, Lakers, and Spurs are the most physical teams in the league and would benefit most from the lack of late calls.



If aggressive teams benefit from calls....Why wouldn't every team play this way? 


Aggressive = more favorable calls doesn't make sense to me


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## jstempi (Jul 23, 2003)

Chiming in....mavsman may have a poin. But I'd agree that the physical play theory does not only benefit the lakers as thrice 911 said. 

I think the overall issue though is right on, consistency is what we're looking for from the refs. 

However, if the lakers benefit from this theory of fourth quarter officiating than the opposite must be considered that the refs like to make a lot of cheap calls earlier in the game to keep it from getting too physical early on. 

This would explain my thoughts as to why the lakers dont get many calls their way until the 4th quarter and the lakers getting into foul trouble early. Interesting thoughts mavsman.


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## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

> As I see it, Kobe may get "one on one play" and TMac gets doubled, but TMac is usually bouncing off screens so he gets a lot of wide open shots. Kobe doesn't get any screens set for him unless its a last second shot, so if you really knew anything about basketball, you'd see that Kobe is at least equal to Tmac in this regard since Tmac is making predominantly wide open shots from bouncing off screens while Kobe actually has a defender on him. Sure, Tmac makes plenty in his defenders' face, but so does Kobe...the difference is Kobe gets most of his points with a defender on him while Tmac gets most of his after ditching his defender on a screen and getting a wide open shot. Its different situations and if the roles were reversed I think they'd be close to mirror images on offense. The difference, however, comes on defense and how clutch they are when it matters.



You have GOT to be joking... Kobe doesnt get any screens? What in gods name are you talking about? Did you WATCH the fourth quarter, i believe Kobe got a screen every PLAY that he took the shot... Wide open shots, thats funny... Kobe gets no screens is the most ridiculous argument ive ever heard...


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## Cris (Jun 18, 2003)

Kobe doesnt get screens, thats the stupidest thing ive heard in a long time


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## BallBiologist (Mar 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>SacKings384</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> You have GOT to be joking... Kobe doesnt get any screens? What in gods name are you talking about? Did you WATCH the fourth quarter, i believe Kobe got a screen every PLAY that he took the shot... Wide open shots, thats funny... Kobe gets no screens is the most ridiculous argument ive ever heard...


LoL..then what was Karl Malone doing just standing with his hands down folded..hahahahahahahhaahhaah


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

courtside,

No one cares. Kobe blatantly owned Tmac when it counted, and no amount of whining about the refs will change that.


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## jstempi (Jul 23, 2003)

Oh yes, now that Malone's back Kobe gets some screens, why do you think he went off on the Magic...but it's not like Shaq goes out there to set any. Maybe I exaggerated about screens but certainly Kobe gets very few compared to Tmac...the Lakers dont run the pick and roll/pop much at all. Mostly they run an isolation play for him and Kobe takes his defender off the dribble or throws a fake to get some room for a shot...very few screens ladies.


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## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

Actually Shaq sets screens all the time... No 2 guard is gonna be able to get free unless its iso or screen...


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## Pinball (Aug 3, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>SacKings384</b>!
> Actually Shaq sets screens all the time... No 2 guard is gonna be able to get free unless its iso or screen...


All the time is a bit of an exaggeration. Shaq comes out and sets screens every few possessions. I think the biggest difference is that Kobe uses the screens to penetrate rather than shoot. Sometimes he'll drive to the basket. Sometimes he and Shaq will run the pick and roll. Every now and then he'll pop a shot. He's not as comfortable as Tmac with screens, though. He's a very picky player.


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

Kobe gets screens on maybe 5-10% of the time he's trying to score. Kobe gets very few screens from Shaq compared to how much he scores all by himself.


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## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

I wouldnt say he scores all by himself, Number 1, teams are unable to double Kobe because of Shaq, (cant double team two players the whole posession) Number two, the double team Shaq draws frees up not just Payton Malone and George, but ALSO Kobe, who often gets to pass someone because they are recovering from the double team. Number 3, Kobes points are sometimes products of double team swing swing swing Three Pointer... Or double Team Swing Swing Swing drive get fouled


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## HallOfFamer (May 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>courtside</b>!
> Lakers giving it their best and only winning by 2 is what I call pathetic.



So how do you feel about the Kings losing to the Wiz tonight? Thats the reason why you dont base everything off of 1 game because everyone has their off nights.


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## Pinball (Aug 3, 2002)

I think we stopped talking about this game a few pages back. Lets talk about the game we're playing *now*.


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