# Apparently, Aaron Williams is worth 2 2nd round picks...



## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

...according to the Hornets GM.



> The New Orleans/Oklahoma City Hornets announced today that they have acquired forward Aaron Williams from Toronto in exchange for second round picks in 2006 and 2009.


http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/38900/20060131/hornets_acquire_aaron_williams/


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## AirJordan™ (Nov 21, 2005)

Are ya serrious?? I mean *two second round* picks for the A-Train???


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## osman (Jul 29, 2003)

now we can get James White


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

http://www.tsn.ca/nba/news_story.asp?id=153094

The purge begins.

Good deal. Picks are always useful. Even 2nds.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

Confirmed. Great deal.



> The Raptors will get a second-round pick in 2006 that originally belonged to Miami and New Orleans' second-round choice in 2009.


-- TSN


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

I would've liked this deal more if Scott Howard was still with the team and Jim Kelly was still assigned on the road scouting NCAA talents. :|


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

So if Aaron is worth two low 2nds, what is Eric worth, I wonder? A high to mid-round second?


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## nwt (Apr 24, 2005)

Damn that was fast


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## Magus Relmyn (Oct 26, 2004)

Wow! Great first impression, Wayne Embry! Two second rounders for Aaron Williams? Congrats.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

So we traded Miralles to get Sow, and got a second out of it (Slokar), and now we get another pick from Miami. We're getting all their scraps, lol.


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## Sporty G (Sep 19, 2004)

Great deal~~~ frees up a couple of extra minutes, some salary and gives us a couple of picks. And please don't discount those second round picks.


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## nwt (Apr 24, 2005)

This would've never happened if the Birdman didn't decide to fly with the birds
A roster spot has just opened as well - sign of bigger trades to come?


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

This adds to the VC asset Tree

Joey
Eric
Denver
2006 Miami 2nd
2009 NO 2nd

Lets get the 2006 Philly 2nd and the trade exception for Eric.


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

Vince Carter Trade Update/Hitlist:

Eric Williams
2 2nd round picks (formerly Aaron Williams)
Joey Graham
2006 1st round pick (via Denver)



edit: and butters beat me to it


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## martymar (Jan 5, 2006)

that's a good deal getting 2 second rounders for aaron williams, maybe we can parlay those 2 seconds for a 1st rounder

Byron scott likes aaron williams from their new jersey days, he was trying to get him last year


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

nwt said:


> This would've never happened if the Birdman didn't decide to fly with the birds
> A roster spot has just opened as well - sign of bigger trades to come?


Good point, didn't think about it. It goes to show a player like the Birdman isn't hard to replace.


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## Geaux Tigers (Apr 26, 2004)

Im ashamed...


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## icehawk (May 30, 2003)

osman said:


> now we can get James White


He'll be gone by then. I'd like to pick him up with our second. Could be a good defensive player. Great dunker, too.

Great trade. Sure, it's a low second and a second in three years from now, but Aaron wasn't being used here and to deal him, get the picks and take no salary in return is something.

I'm sure Wayne Embry has a couple more moves up his sleeve. Eric Williams to Philly for their 2nd wouldn't be too bad, either. We won't have to worry about him picking up his option and Philly has that TE.


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## kirk_2003 (Jun 23, 2003)

Jsimo12 said:


> Im ashamed...


lol, why?


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

And the villagers rejoice!

Huzzah!

Hooray!

Huzzah!

Hooray!

Seriously...

How much would you love to become the most developmental team in the league. We already have Ukic and Slokar (who I'm starting to think should stay with Benetton next season) in top programs. What's to stop us from racking up Euros and guys that can develop in the D-league (before signing preferably)? 

This 2nd round probably won't hold a candle to that of last year but two shots at the goal is certainly better than one. Euro picks are worth more and more- with a guy like Marco Tomas in no hurry to come over you can pick up his rights on the cheap if you're deep enough to be patient. 

Gotta give props to Aaron. He's a real working bball player; no drama queen, that's for sure. I remember when he was throwing down reverse two handers for the Grizzlies. I think he could do quite well with the Hornets and hope he does, to be sure.

But if we get their second rounder this year I'm praying Oklahoma to go down in flames the rest of the season :cheers:

I knew I was upset at Babs for not trading Donyell for a reason!


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## Mr. Hobbes (Jul 1, 2005)

Was he an expiring contract?


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

WTChan said:


> Was he an expiring contract?



Yes. But we take nothing back. Save on salary this year. Around 1.5 mil.










You were a pro AW. (And don't make fun of this kid, serious.)


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## AirJordan™ (Nov 21, 2005)

Yup, a pretty good trade.


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## bball_mvp88 (Aug 26, 2005)

wow i cant beelieve that a-train was worth two second round picks, good deal for the raps we were gonna lose him over the summer cause we werent gonna sign him back now we got two second round picks better than nothing :banana:


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## anniebananerz (Jan 8, 2006)

AirJordan™ said:


> Yup, a pretty good trade.


Agreed. I'm glad the Embry didn't trade him away to a team that wouldn't need him. I have a lot of respect for Aaron Williams. He never really complained and everyone knew he didn't want to be here but he didn't make a big fuss out of it. I hope he'll be able to make a significant impact with the Hornets.


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## Dee-Zy (Jan 12, 2006)

Wow, I guess I'm the only one who's pessimistic about it. The hornets are desperate for a C since birdman got the axe, so I'm not surprised that Aaron was move there, good job on moving him ... but 2 seconds? isn't that pretty ------? Sure, Bonner was a 2nd rnder but more than half of the 2nd rounders don't even make the 12th man nowadays.


Can somebody correct me on this? I really don't see why this is a good news. And don't use Arenas or Redd as examples, I don't see that hapening. I haven't seen slokar yet, so that don't mean much either.


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## JL2002 (Nov 30, 2003)

Dee-Zy said:


> Wow, I guess I'm the only one who's pessimistic about it. The hornets are desperate for a C since birdman got the axe, so I'm not surprised that Aaron was move there, good job on moving him ... but 2 seconds? isn't that pretty sh!tty? Sure, Bonner was a 2nd rnder but more than half of the 2nd rounders don't even make the 12th man nowadays.
> 
> 
> Can somebody correct me on this? I really don't see why this is a good news. And don't use Arenas or Redd as examples, I don't see that hapening. I haven't seen slokar yet, so that don't mean much either.


Raptors 2nd round on the top of my head:
Pape Sow
Roko Ukic
Matt Bonner

OTHERS:
Kyle Korver, Chris Duhon, Pachulia, Willie Green, Okur, Loren Woods....list goes on.....

lets face it, u're not going to get a Vince Carter out of Aaron Williams, but u could get another Chris Duhon or Kyle Korver or something with it.....and if Raps scouts well, they might even get a Arenas, Boozer type players....and they have 2 more chance in both draft to do it....


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

Dee-Zy said:


> Can somebody correct me on this? I really don't see why this is a good news. And don't use Arenas or Redd as examples, I don't see that hapening. I haven't seen slokar yet, so that don't mean much either.


Errr, what exactly did you have in mind when trying to get something back for Aaron, a backup, undersized center who has been underused for the past 2 years?


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## Dee-Zy (Jan 12, 2006)

trick said:


> Errr, what exactly did you have in mind when trying to get something back for Aaron, a backup, undersized center who has been underused for the past 2 years?



hmmm, I guess you're right, I thought AAWill was worth more than he is. I don't know, I barely saw him play, but it's just seems that 2 2nd rnd is nothing.... 


I guess, I just don't see us getting a handful 2nd rnder out of those 2 picks


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## aizn (Jun 19, 2005)

Dee-Zy said:


> hmmm, I guess you're right, I thought AAWill was worth more than he is. I don't know, I barely saw him play, but it's just seems that 2 2nd rnd is nothing....
> 
> 
> I guess, I just don't see us getting a handful 2nd rnder out of those 2 picks


doesn't matter, at least its worth a try to get two younger guys than to let A-Train walk at the end of the year. I mean if we didn't trade aaron, then he wouldve left. so with this trade it allows for two possible 2nd round steals...if not, it wouldn't have affected this team anyways. good trade.


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## ballocks (May 15, 2003)

i just wish we had some scouts in europe right now. scouts anywhere. 

but we'll get some by '09, i think.

peace


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

There is a rumour going around that Babcock held his chips too tight, starting when he agreed to try to build around Carter in spite of the fact he was unhappy, evidenced in his reluctance to trade Donyell Marshall, and further supported by his nonstop holding pattern with the Williams's. I guess the theory was that he was stubborn to begin with and shellshocked after the outcry following the Carter deal. He waited as long as he could to trade Alston, seemingly, and though that was a good trade I wonder if he would've waited forever for the right deal to present itself if he wasn't under pressure to continuously retool the team.

I think maybe looking too hard at the summer of 07 might've caused him to lose perspective on the current, in the eyes of MLSE.


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## martymar (Jan 5, 2006)

Dee-Zy said:


> Wow, I guess I'm the only one who's pessimistic about it. The hornets are desperate for a C since birdman got the axe, so I'm not surprised that Aaron was move there, good job on moving him ... but 2 seconds? isn't that pretty ------? Sure, Bonner was a 2nd rnder but more than half of the 2nd rounders don't even make the 12th man nowadays.
> 
> 
> Can somebody correct me on this? I really don't see why this is a good news. And don't use Arenas or Redd as examples, I don't see that hapening. I haven't seen slokar yet, so that don't mean much either.


2004 
Duhon
Pape Sow
Trevor Ariza

2003
Bonner
Pachulia
Kapono
Blake
Willie Green
Bogans
Mo Williams
James Jones

2002
Dan Gadzuric
Carlos Boozer
Matt Barnes
Songalia

2001
Okur
Simmons
Earl Watson


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## Geaux Tigers (Apr 26, 2004)

kirk_2003 said:


> lol, why?


I would have liked this trade 3-4 years ago and thats a maybe...


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## martymar (Jan 5, 2006)

Jsimo12 said:


> I would have liked this trade 3-4 years ago and thats a maybe...


(Hornets POV)
It's a second rounders, 2nds are crap shoot, and it really depends how the Hornets play, as I said earlier the trade was made cuz Byron Scott likes Aaron Williams from their time in New Jersey


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

Miami's pick is almost worthless. It will be in the 56-60 range. Slokar is far from an NBA player, though he might become one some day. If you can get anything of value with a pick like that you are a genius.

Who knows where New Orleans' pick will be in 09?

Overall I'm just happy we cleared some deadwood and got something--anything for him.


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

Aaron Williams was a real pro. There was a lot of talk about him being a good role model for our young bigs, but it's good to see us getting something in return for him considering how little playing time he was getting.
Hope to see him perform well for the Hornets this season.


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

this seems like a steal for the raps picks to build to the future for dead weight


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## Geaux Tigers (Apr 26, 2004)

martymar said:


> (Hornets POV)
> It's a second rounders, 2nds are crap shoot, and it really depends how the Hornets play, as I said earlier the trade was made cuz Byron Scott likes Aaron Williams from their time in New Jersey



Yeah I mean I know the second rounders will probably be crap by the time they get them, but Aaron Williams is like getting another PJ Brown. I would have rathered Scott find a young guy somewhere or even scour the NBDL.

Oh well Im not complaining it makes us slightly better in the short term....


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## BBB (Jan 19, 2005)

Good stuff. 



> Hope to see him perform well for the Hornets this season.


Ditto.


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## charlz (Jun 9, 2003)

BBB said:


> Good stuff.
> 
> 
> Ditto.


conversely I am not rooting for derek zoolander









although I do wish to support </b>the derek zoolander school for kids who can not read good.</b>


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## madman (Oct 20, 2003)

i like this deal, it is getting rid of some cap room and makes some room on the roster, Embrey surprised me I thought he would just be sitting back and waiting


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## aizn (Jun 19, 2005)

speedythief said:


> Miami's pick is almost worthless. It will be in the 56-60 range. Slokar is far from an NBA player, though he might become one some day. If you can get anything of value with a pick like that you are a genius.



think MANU GINOBILI :gopray:


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## The Mad Viking (Jun 12, 2003)

Great little deal. Gets rid of a roster spot, saves $1.5 million, and gives us a chance to pick up another project for the NBDL or Euroleague. Plus, by 2009, the 2nd rounder could be the 31st pick overall...


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## madman (Oct 20, 2003)

The Mad Viking said:


> Great little deal. Gets rid of a roster spot, saves $1.5 million, and gives us a chance to pick up another project for the NBDL or Euroleague. Plus, by 2009, the 2nd rounder could be the 31st pick overall...


 NO isnt that bad, at least this season they arent, they might fall backwards next year but it dosent look like they will


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## Benis007 (May 23, 2005)

I like the deal as well.

I don't think anyone can argue that they thought that we could get 2 2nd rounders for the A-Train. 

Good luck Mr.Train.


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## The Truth IV (Nov 3, 2005)

Any deal is a good deal when you get rid of someone who doesn't play and don't take anything back.

But second round picks are useless - people love them on this board because everyone here likes to speculate about hidden gems etc.... but in reality second rounders are crap. I love how people list the rare finds like Michael Redd, Toni Kukoc, and Manu Ginobili but fail to mention the 28 other guys taken in those respective draft years that never set foot in the league.

How many useful second round draft picks have the Raptors unearthed? And please don't bring up Matt Boner as a shining example.


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

Birdman got tossed and NO needed a big man to fit into their rotation. Babs would have gotten the same call from NO and made the same trade.

Byron Scott knows and likes Aaron. Aaron is still a productive bench big man, but with our youth movement has no minutes here. He will be in the rotation in NO, book it. 

The Miami second rounder this year is almost useless. Very late in second round of a weak draft. The Hornets second round pick is in 2009 !!!! That's four drafts from now. Could be worth something, but will we even have a roster spot to give a 2nd round steal?

The Hornets didn't have to give up any player on their roster. They are under the cap and because Aaron expires they don't even lose any cap space this summer. They lose nothing at all except a worthless pick.

Decent trade but hardly anything special.

Why didn't we take Lampe, or JacksonVroman, or Brandon Bass back to get a look at a young player with some potential. We could just let them walk at the end of the year if we don't like them. Still save big money for the remainder of the year.

At least we would know what we are getting instead of a mystery pick in 4 years.


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## aizn (Jun 19, 2005)

The Truth IV said:


> Any deal is a good deal when you get rid of someone who doesn't play and don't take anything back.
> 
> But second round picks are useless - people love them on this board because everyone here likes to speculate about hidden gems etc.... but in reality second rounders are crap. I love how people list the rare finds like Michael Redd, Toni Kukoc, and Manu Ginobili but fail to mention the 28 other guys taken in those respective draft years that never set foot in the league.
> 
> How many useful second round draft picks have the Raptors unearthed? And please don't bring up Matt Boner as a shining example.


i said this b4 and i'll say it again. A-train will walk at the end of the season, and would u rather let him walk for nothing? or at least get some draft picks to at least have an OPPORTUNITY to get those rare finds in the 2nd round?

u make it seem as if Aaron was worth a first rounder..he definetly is not.


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## Benis007 (May 23, 2005)

aizn said:


> i said this b4 and i'll say it again. A-train will walk at the end of the season, and would u rather let him walk for nothing? or at least get some draft picks to at least have an OPPORTUNITY to get those rare finds in the 2nd round?
> 
> u make it seem as if Aaron was worth a first rounder..he definetly is not.


Too your point... I don't think he is worth 2 2nd rounders either.


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## foul_balls (Jun 25, 2004)

I didn't know this but another bonus from this trade: Raps get a 3.3 mil trade exception that they can use next year to trade excess salary.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

foul_balls said:


> I didn't know this but another bonus from this trade: Raps get a 3.3 mil trade exception that they can use next year to trade excess salary.


Trade exceptions are typically used to take on more salary than you give up. With it we can trade a $4M player and the exception for rougly an $8M player. Having the exception only helps us shed salary if we keep it and let it expire after we've used it to move a contract.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

> Since he was being so considerate, Embry was asked whether he might afford the same treatment to Eric Williams, who has also seen little court time with Toronto.
> 
> Eric said again last weekend that he hopes the Raptors will move him to another team so he might play more.
> 
> "We don't know," Embry said. "We're in a lot of conversations back and forth right now."


http://www.theglobeandmail.com/serv.../LAC/20060201/RAPSTRADE01/TPSports/Basketball


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## Dee-Zy (Jan 12, 2006)

blowuptheraptors said:


> http://www.theglobeandmail.com/serv.../LAC/20060201/RAPSTRADE01/TPSports/Basketball




Let's move Ewill for 4 2nd rounders since he is better than aawill.


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## Benis007 (May 23, 2005)

Steven Hunter just got traded from the 76ers to the Hornets for 2 2nd rounders.

i would trade Aaron Williams for Steven Hunter in a second. I think the Hornets benefitted from that deal.


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## foul_balls (Jun 25, 2004)

speedythief said:


> Trade exceptions are typically used to take on more salary than you give up. With it we can trade a $4M player and the exception for rougly an $8M player. Having the exception only helps us shed salary if we keep it and let it expire after we've used it to move a contract.


oops, You're right. Didn't think it through totally. But it is still valuable. We could use it in a trade to pick up someone for a lower paid player. I don't have any ideas, maybe a blockbuster for Rashard Lewis next year since he is opting out in 07'08, or a player like Nesterovic or Magloire.


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

foul_balls said:


> oops, You're right. Didn't think it through totally. But it is still valuable. We could use it in a trade to pick up someone for a lower paid player. I don't have any ideas, maybe a blockbuster for Rashard Lewis next year since he is opting out in 07'08, or a player like Nesterovic or Magloire.


TE's can not be included in package deals. So we can't, let's say, trade Mike James/Pete/TE for Stojakovic.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

trick said:


> TE's can not be included in package deals. So we can't, let's say, trade Mike James/Pete/TE for Stojakovic.


That's what I thought before but I think it has happened recently. It might've been with the Chicago/New York deal with Eddy Curry but I'm not sure for certain that was the deal.


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

speedythief said:


> That's what I thought before but I think it has happened recently. It might've been with the Chicago/New York deal with Eddy Curry but I'm not sure for certain that was the deal.


It's been a while since I read Larry's FAQ but from what I remember, TE's can not be included as part of a package in simultaneous deals. The "James/Peterson/TE for Stojakovic" trade is a hypothetical example of a simultaneous deal. 

However, if the deal were reorganized as a non-simultaenous trade like this:


> 1st transaction:
> James/Peterson/Sow for Stojakovic
> 2nd (follow up) transaction:
> Toronto's TE for Indiana's 2006 first round pick (or player(s) who salary(ies) match the equivolant of the TE)


Then it would pass the criteria according to the CBA, and the deal overall would look like James/Peterson/Sow/TE for Stojakovic/2006 1st round pick, when in fact it was a two-part, non-simultaneous deal.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

I was thinking about something else with that Chicago deal. We (on the board) used to think you can't package players in sign and trades, but you can.

And yeah, I think you're right, trade exceptions need to be included as a seperate part in one bigger trade.


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## Junkyard Dog13 (Aug 9, 2003)

Excellent move, finally our 2nd rnd picks are contributors

Bonner
Sow
hopfully Ukic

These 2 picks are very valuable as if another is aqquired from Philly to send Eric, we can make a big deal.


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## AirBonner (May 28, 2005)

I really like the pickup of Steven hunter for 2 2nd round picks. Seems to show that we got par value for Aaron W.


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## eddymac (Jun 23, 2005)

Aaron Williams isn't worth two second round picks. Esspecially in a age where you have at least one or two good second rounders every year.


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

eddymac said:


> [Aaron Williams isn't worth two second round picks.


Evidently, you're wrong. :angel:


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

Good start for Aaron Williams tonight. Came off the bench and played 21 minutes, 8 points, 5 boards and 2 blocks. The Hornets beat the Bulls 100-95.


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## Tangas (Aug 6, 2005)

Anyone else think that, as good a deal this is, Raps lost some much needed size?

Not getting the minutes anyhow, but considering how short Raps are on frontcourt talent, any bruiser like A-Train is valuable to an extent. Better to leave it be, or go chase up another big guy?


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