# Nocionni to Chicago?



## WookiesOnRitalin (Jan 22, 2004)

http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=256106 

and heres another link:

http://webasketball.com.ar/ 

Big buyout though...3.5 Million apparently. 

It would be awesome to split the MLE between him and Arvydas.


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## Kismet (Mar 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>WookiesOnRitalin</b>!
> http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=256106
> 
> and heres another link:
> ...


Heh, heh, heh...


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## dsouljah9 (Jul 9, 2002)

Nocioni would command the FULL MLE, not half. And, I doubt that Macas would then sign for the 1.6. Would love to ahve Nocioni though...


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

OK, now this makes sense, a 6'7" G/F swingman. I only know his game by reputation, but I hear great things, and he plays the two positions I think we need the most. If we got a backup center, we'd be all set.


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## RetroDreams (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>dsouljah9</b>!
> Nocioni would command the FULL MLE, not half. And, I doubt that Macas would then sign for the 1.6. Would love to ahve Nocioni though...


With his buyout and no NBA experience, how could you even justify paying him the full MLE, especially when that would mean he was earning more then LeBron James.

No thanks. I'd give him half the MLE and if he proves he has what it takes, he'd get a nicer deal.


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## Kismet (Mar 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>RetroDreams</b>!
> With his buyout and no NBA experience, how could you even justify paying him the full MLE, especially when that would mean he was earning more then LeBron James.
> 
> No thanks. I'd give him half the MLE and if he proves he has what it takes, he'd get a nicer deal.


Retro, consider it the same as a front loaded contract...lets say, $3 million buyout and a $2 million salary for 04/05. The following season (if it would be a multi year deal) would call for him to be paid something more than $2 million. Not bad when you think about it. Beats the hell out of starting at $5 million and then going $5+ million for 05/06.


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## RetroDreams (Jun 9, 2002)

This just passed on to me from curry_52

Nocioni is flying tonight to Chicago with his agent, Villanueva, where he will meet Bulls representatives, Pax and Co. 

The Bulls sent him the tickets and Nocioni is actually quite excited about this possibility: he said that from 1 to 10, theres a chance between 7.5 and 8.5 that he will join Chicago next season. 

His buyout is around US $3m so its not a lock he will be a Bull next season, but theres a good chance. 

URL: http://webasketball.com.ar/


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## Illstate2 (Nov 11, 2003)

Exciting stuff, from what I've read about him.


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## RetroDreams (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Kismet</b>!
> 
> 
> Retro, consider it the same as a front loaded contract...lets say, $3 million buyout and a $2 million salary for 04/05. The following season (if it would be a multi year deal) would call for him to be paid something more than $2 million. Not bad when you think about it. Beats the hell out of starting at $5 million and then going $5+ million for 05/06.


That would be easier to swallow.


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## dsouljah9 (Jul 9, 2002)

Retro...

Brian Skinner makes more than LeBron and he is a scrub. Heck, Nike pays him more than the Cavs!!

Like I said Nocioni would command the FULL MLE. And. wer'e not talking about some freshwater scrub here; were talking about the best player in Europe.


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## RetroDreams (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>dsouljah9</b>!
> Retro...
> 
> Brian Skinner makes more than LeBron and he is a scrub. Heck, Nike pays him more than the Cavs!!
> ...


Brian Skinner is actually an emerging younger big man, but noted on the fact that he is paid more then LeBron. Further, Skinner is a big body and a banger.

Nocioni plays a position where speed is paramount and the Euros in the league are not fleet of foot. The full MLE is a big risk, especially when you could have had Stephen Jackson for the same dough.


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## Fizer Fanatic (Jun 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Kismet</b>!
> 
> 
> Retro, consider it the same as a front loaded contract...lets say, $3 million buyout and a $2 million salary for 04/05. The following season (if it would be a multi year deal) would call for him to be paid something more than $2 million. Not bad when you think about it. Beats the hell out of starting at $5 million and then going $5+ million for 05/06.


That makes sense to me, only I think the Bulls can technically only contribute something like $300k to a 'buyout' as such according to the CBA. He'd have to pay for the rest himself, so we' have to pay him something like the $5 mill so that he could pay his buyout. Alternatively, maybe there's a way to talk the team down on the buyout amount or spread out the buyout over multiple years while the player pays it out of a portion of his salary. Also, his salary can only increase or decrease 10% of his first year salary per year the first year of the contract.
http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#44


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Kismet</b>!
> 
> 
> Retro, consider it the same as a front loaded contract...lets say, $3 million buyout and a $2 million salary for 04/05. The following season (if it would be a multi year deal) would call for him to be paid something more than $2 million. Not bad when you think about it. Beats the hell out of starting at $5 million and then going $5+ million for 05/06.


It would seem to me that such a judgement would have to be dependent on how good those two players are. If you shell out $7M for a guy who's JAG instead of $11M for a talented player who'll improve your team then I have a pretty hard time seeing how you've beaten the hell out of anything.


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## Lurch (Nov 3, 2003)

http://www.masbasket.com/imagen/ima...MateNocioni.avi

Check this clip out! Nocioni has already faced top NBA players in international competetions!


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

Thanks for the links, Wookie! Veerrrrrrrrry Interesting!


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## SALO (Jun 6, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>RetroDreams</b>!
> 
> 
> Brian Skinner is actually an emerging younger big man, but noted on the fact that he is paid more then LeBron. Further, Skinner is a big body and a banger.
> ...


Retro,

Considering Stephen Jackson got more than the full MLE, and from a better team, I doubt there was much of a chance for us at nabbing him. 

And Nocioni is supposed to be one of the best athletes in Europe, so if we pass on him because of worries about his speed, what chance is there that we would ever bring a Euro over here? He is one of the best they got.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

I don't know all that much about him other than reading a thing or two in the past. But, for some weird reason, I am getting this good feeling about this that I haven't had about any of our proposed signings in a long time.

Total hunch -- but I like it.


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## LB26matrixns (May 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Darius Miles Davis</b>!
> OK, now this makes sense, a 6'7" G/F swingman. I only know his game by reputation, but I hear great things, and he plays the two positions I think we need the most. If we got a backup center, we'd be all set.


Ehhh, our backup center, Antonio Davis, is currently ranked 13th at the center position by CBSsportsline.com. I'd say we have the best backup center in the NBA.


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## remlover (Jan 22, 2004)

I have a good feeling about this Nicioni signing. Other then a Spanish Newspaper report it has come out of left field. 

Pax wouldnt bring him all the way to Chicago if they didnt hav ean understanding about some kind of offer. It would be a waste of time for Nocioni and his agent.


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## WookiesOnRitalin (Jan 22, 2004)

Matrix, I think most people consider Antonio's most "effective" position being PF and not C. 

I would have to agree with them. If we could dump JYD for a decent backup center, we could definately be a contender with shifting AD to the 4 where he is better off. 

Trade Jamal + JYD for Raddy + one of Seattle's Centers + filler

Not a bad situation if you ask me.


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## life_after_23 (Jul 24, 2002)

All the scouting reports are of a tough aggressive guy who works hard and hits the boards....not bad but it does sound a little bit like he plays more like an undersized power forward than a quick-footed wing player!
http://www.interbasket.net/olympics/2004/countries/Argentina/Argentina.htm
http://www.freeplayers.com/sportalents/andresnocioni.html
http://www.fiba.com/pages/en/news/latest_news_article.asp?r_act_news=2661&r_cat=8&page=5
http://nbadraft.net/profiles/andresnocioni.htm
http://www.euroleague.net/plantillas/jugador.jsp?id=APR



> Andres Nocioni, who had a memorable dunk over Kevin Garnett and Tim Duncan at the 1999 Olympic qualifier, unleashed another impressive jam over Ben Wallace early in the second quarter. He then stole the ensuing inbounds pass at midcourt and made two foul shots for a 41-23 lead.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

OT: Many on this board are not aware that Wookies has an uncanny ability to make an absolutely _perfect_ wookie roar -- but he's too shy to do it twice.

The things you learn at BBB parties...


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

> Standing only 6'7", Nocioni plays taller than most players. He thrives in physical games, taking charges and bullying his way to the basket. But he is more than muscle and long hair. He has a great shooting touch.





> Maybe the most athletic player in Europe, his explosiveness is "Carter-esque". Best remembered for his legendary dunk on Kevin Garnett as a 17 year old. He is not a Fotsis or Bodiroga, an all-around-talent who can do everything on the court. He is an energetic player, who can give athletic presence, great hustle and defense. He is great in open court situations where he always wants to dunk. And, most importantly, he is becoming a threat from outside. He improved his shooting technique a lot. He is very confident with his shot and right now and has been hitting the J on a regular bases. He has also displayed effectiveness with his pull-up jumper and shooting off screens. He is not a pure shooter like Stojakovic but if he continues to improve he can be a legitimate NBA player.




































:clap:


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## WookiesOnRitalin (Jan 22, 2004)

Keep the growl out of this...

Or else...:boxing:


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## life_after_23 (Jul 24, 2002)

*Tribune confirms the Nocioni discussions*

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune...babits,1,483135.story?coll=cs-bulls-headlines

KC Johnson makes it sound like this discussion with Nocioni is very preliminary.
The Crawford talks are confirmed dead over Norris versus Mutombo


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>WookiesOnRitalin</b>!
> Keep the growl out of this...
> 
> Or else...:boxing:


Are you kidding? Major props.


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## Fizer Fanatic (Jun 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>WookiesOnRitalin</b>!
> If we could dump JYD for a decent backup center, we could definately be a contender with shifting AD to the 4 where he is better off.


What? We're a decent backup center away from being contenders? This is definitely news to me. Who did the Lakers have for a backup center this past year?

I agree that a true backup C would be nice, and that AD is more effective as a PF, but JYD and AD as a backup PF/C duo actually seems pretty effective to me as far as backups go. The biggest problems to me seems to be a lack of developed/proven talent in our starting lineup. The backup true C thing seems like an unnessary luxury (not a difference maker) to me on a team that starts what is essentially two centers.


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## WookiesOnRitalin (Jan 22, 2004)

A man of your age should not be saying "major props" 

:no:


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## WookiesOnRitalin (Jan 22, 2004)

Contenders in the East...

I think that if we have two offensively competent players in our front court then the Bulls will be a very effective team next year. 

JYD is just incompetent offensively.


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## ScottVdub (Jul 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>WookiesOnRitalin</b>!
> A man of your age should not be saying "major props"
> 
> :no:


:sigh:


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## Kismet (Mar 1, 2003)

This guy's put together. I wonder, if he signs this week, could he join the team in time for the RMR? That would be interesting to watch.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>WookiesOnRitalin</b>!
> A man of your age should not be saying "major props"
> 
> :no:


Sit in box, all alone. Feel great shame.


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## bullet (Jul 1, 2003)

Wow - Nocioni - now this is one guy from Europe (actually argentina) that will *not* have any problem with physical ability in the nba - I mean he's no Jason Richardson,but he is athletic and very aggressive - he's an nba player and a great match for us imo.


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## remlover (Jan 22, 2004)

I have a feeling that Pax was targetting Nocionni all along. When Pax went on his Euro scouting trip i recall hearing that he liked Nocionni's game a lot. 

It cant be a coincidence that Nocionni is coming to chicago a day before Free Agents can sign a contract.


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## Johnny Mac (May 6, 2003)

This would be a great pickup, he looks like Ginobili part two. They say hes 6'7, strong and athletic enough to play in the NBA, and is an energy player who loves the open court. Thats real similar to Ginobili. Both from Argentina, and Nocionni is 24 years old, and Ginobili came in at around what, 25 years old? 

We could really use a guy like him. Paxsons done a great job if he had his eye on this kid all along. He may end up being better than any wing player we could have landed in free agency.


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## life_after_23 (Jul 24, 2002)

The only issue now is....does Pax have to give him all of the Mid-level exception.....it sure seems like it!!

And Pax has guaranteed PT for him....seems like they are very serious about getting the deal done.

http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/bulls.asp


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## bullet (Jul 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>life_after_23</b>!
> The only issue now is....does Pax have to give him all of the Mid-level exception.....it sure seems like it!!
> 
> And Pax has guaranteed PT for him....seems like they are very serious about getting the deal done.
> ...


I'm very happy with the interest - but full MLE seems high (I think he's not even making 1 mil in Europe - like 800k+- which is high in euro standard) so splitting te mle between him and Macas seems fair (and still enough to settle with his Team) and very good for us!

R we going to finally make good moves from Europe - hasn't happened since Kukoc(sorry Bagaric lovers )


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## JRose5 (May 4, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>bullet</b>!
> 
> (sorry Bagaric lovers )


:upset:
Apology not accepted..


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## bullet (Jul 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>JRose5</b>!
> 
> 
> :upset:
> Apology not accepted..


Sorry JR - since Bags


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

Nocioni is a good player. BUT, he is a 3/4, not the 2/3 the Bulls should be looking for.


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## Kismet (Mar 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>bullet</b>!
> 
> 
> I'm very happy with the interest - but full MLE seems high (I think he's not even making 1 mil in Europe - like 800k+- which is high in euro standard) so splitting te mle between him and Macas seems fair (and still enough to settle with his Team) and very good for us!
> ...


Its his buyout that would gobble up a good portion of the MLE. His actual contract may only call for a first year salary of perhaps $2 million. That means his 05/06 salary might only come to, say, $2.2 million. Now, isn't that a lot better than starting an NBA free agent out at the full MLE amount of $5 million for 04/05 and watch it increase to $5.6 million in 05/06?

Like you, I'm very pleased to see the Bulls acquire what likely could be considered draft lottery talent, though this time that talent has been thoroughly seasoned with several years of international competition at the highest level. Adding Nocioni would seem to provide vindication for Paxson who earlier in the year was being castigated by fans for presumably failing in his responsibilities to scout and mine international talent.

*Nocioni has an expensive buyout clause in his contract with Tau Ceramica and has said in the past that he would only join an NBA team if he were assured ample playing time. The Bulls can offer all or a portion of their $5 million mid-level exception and told Nocioni he will be their sixth man next season, if not a starter at small forward ahead of rookie Luol Deng.*

http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/sports_story.asp?intID=3818187

While I'm sure he'll have to produce and work hard to keep his rotation minutes, as a swing position player he should average 30+ minutes per game. Wouldn't it be interesting and extremely satisfying to see three Bulls players participate in the Rookie Challenge during All-Star weekend?


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## bullet (Jul 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> Nocioni is a good player. BUT, he is a 3/4, not the 2/3 the Bulls should be looking for.


RL - I agree he ain't no 2/3 - but I do think he's much more of a 3 than a 4 even in europe.

I guess we have to sign Jamal now...


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

Deng vs Nocioni. Would be very interesting.


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## bullet (Jul 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> Deng vs Nocioni. Would be very interesting.


I agree - practice would be intense...
good


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## bullet (Jul 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Kismet</b>!
> Wouldn't it be interesting and extremely satisfying to see three Bulls players participate in the Rookie Challenge during All-Star weekend?


Amen to that

And Mario Austin as mvp of the game


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

Nocioni is Argentinian and thats about the only similarity he has with Manu Ginobili. Nocioni is an aggressive player but generally isn't a good player. In the NBA he will probably either be at the line an awful lot or foul out in 10 minutes of pt. He's strong and aggressive, a solid defender, not a very good shooter from what I have seen and horrible at finishing. He has no problem at all with throwing his body in among the trees and trying to make something happen...just don't be surprised if it results in 2 shots from the line or an offensive foul more often than the And1. Personally I think the Bulls would be better served signing an experienced NBA player like Miles or Eric Williams before considering a guy like Nocioni. Because of his euro contract buyout Pax will probably have to pay him the full MLE too to get him to come over.

It's amusing to see everyone get all excited about this guy...


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

I dont want to be the party pooper here, but lets also be realistic. Because Nocioni is coming to visit Chicago really doesnt mean anything. Philadelphia worked extremely hard to add this kid to their roster and couldnt put together a deal that would satisfy Tau Ceramica and finally gave up. They literally worked on it since January. Now, there is alot of rumors going on around the Bulls. Crawford to NY, as I pointed out, was never as close as the newspapers said. Arvydas was supposed to be a Bull by now but rumor has it that he might end up in Miami now. And now Nocioni. Nocionis buyout is astronomical. 3.5 million. The Bulls would have to frontload a deal to him that would, at a minimum, pay him 7 million this year. lets do the math

Nocionis buyout is 3,5 million
The Bulls can pay 200k of that taking it down to 3.3 million

Nocioni at 5 million would make roughly 2.5 million after taxes. So clearly, at the MLE, no deal. 

Now, Nocioni at 7 mil would make 3.5 mil after taxes. and would have to pay 3.3 mil to Tau, making his earning for the year 200k. Now, how does Tau want that money? Upfront or not? I dont know, but they were highly difficult with Philly so my guess is they would want the 3.3 million NOW, vs some installment plan. I am sure Nocioni would get a loan for 3.3 million, but with the interest to pay it off, he is making far less then 200k this year. 

Now, for Nocioni, wouldnt it be wiser to just wait til next year when his buyout shrinks? My guess is yes. Tau is serious about winning Europe next year. And that is why they will not let Macijauskas and Nocioni walk without a fight. They have iron clad contracts. They are smart people. 

In conclusion, I think of all the Bulls rumors, while I hope this is the one that is true (though I dont think Nocioni is the perfect fit for the Bulls, one NBA scout compared him to KENNY SKY WALKER) lets not count our chickens before they hatch. This one is probably that far likliest to NOT happen.


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## Kismet (Mar 1, 2003)

Sorry, this is a really lousy translation of the EL CORREO article on Andres, so take it for what its worth (Hmmm...I really need to get a life!)

*Nocioni travels to Chicago to negotiate a contract of three seasons with the Bulls the azulgrana receives the permission of the Baskonia and of the Argentina Federation the vitoriano club remembers that the exit of eaves happens to pay its clause*


The Argentine selection began yesterday the official training with views to the Olympic Games of Athens. To the session two players of the Ceramic TAU had to go, Andrés Nocioni and Luis Scola. But ' Chapú requested permission to absent three or four days. The reason, of nature greater and known as much in the Baskonia as in the Federation of its country.

Nocioni communicated to both parts, and obtained the corresponding permissions, to travel to Chicago. Only yesterday it flew to the capital of Illinois, invited by the Bulls. The ' general manager' of ' toros', the famous John Paxon of the winning basket to happens of Michael Jordan, thought to celebrate of host.

In principle the American club has invited to him to know the city. But to anybody one escapes to him that the tax exemptions of the NBA do not pay tourism because yes. Reliable sources from Argentina assured yesterday to this newspaper that the Bulls thinks to present/display to Nocioni a supply by three seasons. Such spokesmen added that the equipment of Chicago also wants to recruit to the ex- azulgrana Fabricio Oberto for the interior of the zone.

People in charge of the vitoriano club confirmed at night of yesterday to this newspaper that the organization knows the displacement from its player the United States. On the baskonista set he insists himself, that yes, that the march of Nocioni happens to pay the rescission clause. A very important economic brake that it only can confront if the TAU accedes to open a negotiation. The restrictions that the NBA marks to pay crossings force an operation of financial engineering. The eaves of Santa Fe need to agree to a very high repayment to satisfy the demand of the Baskonia. Only in that case, and by means of a long contract, ' Chapú Vitoria could leave. Querejeta, during its balance of the last campaign, already admitted that "if anybody payment the clauses is nothing no to say". Nevertheless, the exit of Nocioni happens, unfailingly, by an agreement between the clubs.


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## giusd (Apr 17, 2003)

rlucus,

Don't the clubs often talk and agree on a lesser buy out amount? Is this something that can or does happen?

david


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>giusd</b>!
> rlucus,
> 
> Don't the clubs often talk and agree on a lesser buy out amount? Is this something that can or does happen?
> ...


not with Tau


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## Kismet (Mar 1, 2003)

Chad Ford is reporting that Andres Nocioni will arrive in Chicago Tuesday to discuss signing a contract with the Bulls.

Ford claims that Nocioni is widely considered the best international player not playing in the NBA. He describes him as a solid perimeter shooter with NBA 3-point range, but that he really shines posting guys up and playing the mid-range game.

Sounds like Al Harrington with a jump shot.


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## Chi_Lunatic (Aug 20, 2002)

question, does anyone know if pax plans to resign LINTON JOHNSON or RONALD DUPREE??


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## dkg1 (May 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ace20004u</b>!
> He's strong and aggressive, a solid defender, not a very good shooter from what I have seen and horrible at finishing.


Tell Garnett that he has trouble finishing, he might say otherwise.


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

Didn't Nocionni have a nasty dunk against Team USA at the world championships?

Can anyone pull up the clip?!


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>dkg1</b>!
> 
> 
> Tell Garnett that he has trouble finishing, he might say otherwise.


Even a blind squirrell finds a nut every now and then huh?


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## Mr. Bill (Nov 26, 2002)

Sorry, I don't know anything about buyouts. Does the CBA prohibit the Bulls from paying Tau directly? Why does the buyout money have to come from noccioni's after tax salary?


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mr. Bill</b>!
> Sorry, I don't know anything about buyouts. Does the CBA prohibit the Bulls from paying Tau directly? Why does the buyout money have to come from noccioni's after tax salary?


The Bulls can pay Ceramica 300k towards a buyout, the rest has to come out of his salary or whatever.


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## dkg1 (May 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ace20004u</b>!
> 
> 
> Even a blind squirrell finds a nut every now and then huh?


Well, it's not exactly something you see happening everday in the NBA (KG getting dunked on). You can compare his dunk to a blind squirrell all you want, it's still pretty damn impressive to me and speaks volumes of his athleticsm.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>dkg1</b>!
> 
> 
> Well, it's not exactly something you see happening everday in the NBA (KG getting dunked on). You can compare his dunk to a blind squirrell all you want, it's still pretty damn impressive to me and speaks volumes of his athleticsm.


There are a lot of international players that can dunk on KG...not a lot of them that can do it on a regular basis. Nocioni IS aggressive, he just doesn't finish that well MOST of the time. I've seen him play 3 games with Tau Ceramica so I have a pretty good feel on his game. BUt if your impressed with his highlight reel, by all means, be impressed.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>LB26matrixns</b>!
> 
> 
> Ehhh, our backup center, Antonio Davis, is currently ranked 13th at the center position by CBSsportsline.com. I'd say we have the best backup center in the NBA.


I should be more clear. We need a scrub #3 or #4 center. Somebody to fill the Corey Blount role from last year. Curry often gets in foul trouble. Antonio Davis is old could be brittle. Tyson Chandler can and may play some center, but he is also brittle. So we definitely need another center, I think, even if it's someone who spends most of the time on the "injured" list.


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## Blazer Freak (Jul 11, 2004)

This would be a good pickup for the Bulls if they get him.


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ace20004u</b>!
> 
> 
> There are a lot of international players that can dunk on KG...not a lot of them that can do it on a regular basis. Nocioni IS aggressive, he just doesn't finish that well MOST of the time. I've seen him play 3 games with Tau Ceramica so I have a pretty good feel on his game. BUt if your impressed with his highlight reel, by all means, be impressed.


Discredit Nocioni for dunking on KG..... while making a 10 page thread on one of Jamal's dunks while he passes to himself. Double standard ace?


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## Blazer Freak (Jul 11, 2004)

OK people it was a Dunk, jesus so the Bulls forum is all about Dunking? Wow, the Blazers Forum will catch up in post count though!:devil:


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>superdave</b>!
> 
> 
> Discredit Nocioni for dunking on KG..... while making a 10 page thread on one of Jamal's dunks while he passes to himself. Double standard ace?


yeah thats it...double standard.


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## dkg1 (May 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Blazer Freak</b>!
> OK people it was a Dunk, jesus so the Bulls forum is all about Dunking? Wow, the Blazers Forum will catch up in post count though!:devil:


If you went back and read the thread, you would see that the dunk talk was basically about his ability to finish. And who cares about post count?


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## Blazer Freak (Jul 11, 2004)

Lol I was joking about the post count, Jesus. Anyways, I have read that he has a really good abilty to finish, also good luck to you Bulls fans. You guys have a good future core.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

I don't think anyone is foolish enough to think that 6'7" Nocioni is going to posterize every top center in the league on a consistant basis. However, the fact that he managed to do it at all -- and over KG, no less -- is certainly worth mentioning and reflects well on his athleticism, skills and willingess to be aggressive.

If that was all he had, he wouldn't be worth pursuing, since he is too small for us to expect him to play down with the trees all the time. I suppose that is why he is undrafted. But if its true that he has added perimeter skills to his athletic game, Pax may have a deal on hands. There's a new "Sleuth" in town.


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>ace20004u</b>!
> Nocioni is Argentinian and thats about the only similarity he has with Manu Ginobili. Nocioni is an aggressive player but *generally isn't a good player.* In the NBA he will probably either be at the line an awful lot or foul out in 10 minutes of pt. He's strong and aggressive, a solid defender, not a very good shooter from what I have seen and horrible at finishing. He has no problem at all with throwing his body in among the trees and trying to make something happen...just don't be surprised if it results in 2 shots from the line or an offensive foul more often than the And1. Personally I think the Bulls would be better served signing an experienced NBA player like Miles or Eric Williams before considering a guy like Nocioni. Because of his euro contract buyout Pax will probably have to pay him the full MLE too to get him to come over.
> 
> It's amusing to see everyone get all excited about this guy...


if he is considered the best player in europe then he probably doesn't suck. 

from realgm:

*Nocioni is known as a fierce competitor, an intense and physical player that is gifted with great athleticism. Nocioni’s game has evolved to the category of an almost complete all-around player. He hasn’t lost a single bit of his heart on the way, his intensity or his love for the physical game never wavered, but he has matured and significantly polished his abilities.

The most noticeable development comes in the shooting department. His jumper has become quite reliable, from mid-range distance out to the three point line. One look at his style is enough to know that he’s not a pure shooter, but he can and will knock it down, even off the dribble.*



ok, so maybe he didn't learn to play basketball _in his driveway_, but i think this guy sounds like he would be a great fit on the bulls.

i hope we sign him. sounds like a baller.


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## Qwst25 (Apr 24, 2004)

I deleted my post (said something that was already said)


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>mizenkay</b>!
> 
> 
> if he is considered the best player in europe then he probably doesn't suck.
> ...


My post should say "good finisher" I misworded it. Nocioni IS a decent euro prospect but I don't think he is "the best in europe". I would take Monya and several other players over him myself.


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## charlietyra (Dec 1, 2002)

I think all of us need to step back a little and try to figure out why more teams are not on his trail. Sure, we all would like to find the next Ginobelli but these days it appears that no player in professional basketball anywhere in the world is a secret anymore. 

Draftcity does a nice job describing the strengths and weakness of Nocioni. Yes, he sounds like he can play in the NBA but I think it is a reach to consider him star material at this time. Based on what I read, it seems that at age 24, any upside will be determined by his progress as a shooter. It seems that many players begin getting the feel for shooting sometime in their mid-20s. Pippen is a good example. If Pax is right that this guy can start hitting jumpers consistently this could mean the difference between another average Euro and a really good player.


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## dsouljah9 (Jul 9, 2002)

Nocioni dunked on KG(when Nocioni was17), that's no big deal; Baron Davis did the same thing. Nocioni put down a vicious dunk on Ben Wallace at the 2002 World Championships, that's notable as Ben is a two time Defensive Player Of The Year. But, it's not all about dunking.

The kid is aggressive, hard nosed and isn't afraid to take it to the hole. By no means will he the savior of the franchise, but he is a piece of the puzzle. I don't think that he and his agent would fly halfway around the world if something wasn't going to happen. We can offer him playing time <i>and</i> a starting spot(if he doesn't get beat out by Deng), so I like our chances. 

If we could sign him(and Oberto with the 1.6), I would consider the off-season a success.

Jakcson signed for more than the MLE and Portland has already said they will match any offer that Darius Miles receives.

Like I said, Nocioni won't be the savior of the feanchise, but a piece of the puzzle.


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## bullet (Jul 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>ace20004u</b>!
> 
> 
> My post should say "good finisher" I misworded it. Nocioni IS a decent euro prospect but I don't think he is "the best in europe". I would take Monya and several other players over him myself.


U can't compare!

Monya hardly played (and I've seen all euro season) and was taken by future potential - while Nocioni is a main player in his team and plays alot.

and seeing him much much much more than 3 games makes me feel he's not that bad a finisher - I'm not sure where that is coming from.

I do agree he's not as skilled as Manu - but he does not play the same position , he plays only the 3,and in europe even slightly second big man,depends who they're playing against(in spanish league there R some smaller teams).he does not have Manu's BB awareness or handles , but he certainly improved throughout the years with his long distance.

IMO at worst he's solid,not a hole on defense and decent on offense.


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## Qwst25 (Apr 24, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>bullet</b>!
> 
> 
> U can't compare!
> ...


Bullet you seem to have watched a good bit of Nocioni. Which NBA players whould you compare him to?


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## bullet (Jul 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Qwst25</b>!
> 
> 
> Bullet you seem to have watched a good bit of Nocioni. Which NBA players whould you compare him to?


thats a hard question - very hard,cause he comes from a different world of BB , as an argentinian playing in Europe.

The only guy that comes to mind is Posey - though they R still miles away (and i don't think he'll turn out as good-but who knows).
He's a very aggressive 6-7 guy with a decent shot,and he likes driving.

If I had to grade my comparison I'd give me 6 outa 10 so don't take it to the bank,but if I think of a better comparison I'll let U know.He's very athletic in Euro standard , and I guess will be fine in that department in the nba - but he's no Vince Carter.He's strong for a SF also in nba standard.
I can also write he's a sf version of cardinal that is more athletic,doesn't shoot as well,drives more and about 10 other differences - so U get the point,I cannot find a good comparison,sorry Qwst25!

Funny thing is maybe Deng is a good comparison


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>bullet</b>!
> Funny thing is maybe Deng is a good comparison


The more I think about it, it's not really funny at all. We have other needs, and we don't need to duplicate the players we just drafted.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

I have a good comparison and a bad one

Matt Harpring is the good one, with slightly more hops

The bad one is Kenny Walker. All Hops, not much else. 

Is probably somewhere in between. But lets be honest, the Chicago Media hasnt gotten one right in awhile (outside of Gordon to a degree). This guy has a monster buyout, which he cant afford. I know he is in Chicago but that doesnt mean really mean anything. If you listen to the Chicago press, Pax wanted vets (as added Gordon and Deng), Harrington is a Bull (didnt happen), Macijauskas has already signed (hasnt happened), Crawford is a Knick (hasnt happened and probably wont) and now this kid is part of the team? Maybe. But I wouldnt call is a done deal yet?


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## bullet (Jul 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> I have a good comparison and a bad one
> 
> Matt Harpring is the good one, with slightly more hops
> ...


Thank U RLucas - Harpering is a much better comparison than mine , he slipped my mind while breaking my head on this one.

There R differences , but much closer...


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## bullet (Jul 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Darius Miles Davis</b>!
> 
> 
> The more I think about it, it's not really funny at all. We have other needs, and we don't need to duplicate the players we just drafted.


Actually - with our record , I wouldn't really mind having even 3 Dengs on our roster , but thats just me


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>bullet</b>!
> 
> 
> Actually - with our record , I wouldn't really mind having even 3 Dengs on our roster , but thats just me


To you guys who have seen Nocionni play, could he play 2 guard against a big 2 like LeBron, McGrady, Kobe, or Stephen Jackson? If he could have a chance at d-ing up one of those guys, I would feel much better about signing him. 

I'm still crying out for a 2-3 tweener!


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Darius Miles Davis</b>!
> 
> 
> To you guys who have seen Nocionni play, could he play 2 guard against a big 2 like LeBron, McGrady, Kobe, or Stephen Jackson? If he could have a chance at d-ing up one of those guys, I would feel much better about signing him.
> ...


no, he is closer to a 3/4 than a 2/3, he doesn't have the foot speed to guard 2's.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Darius Miles Davis</b>!
> 
> 
> To you guys who have seen Nocionni play, could he play 2 guard against a big 2 like LeBron, McGrady, Kobe, or Stephen Jackson? If he could have a chance at d-ing up one of those guys, I would feel much better about signing him.
> ...


No mate. You can D up 3s nicely. But to ask him to guard the 2 is a bit much


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## bullet (Jul 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Darius Miles Davis</b>!
> 
> 
> To you guys who have seen Nocionni play, could he play 2 guard against a big 2 like LeBron, McGrady, Kobe, or Stephen Jackson? If he could have a chance at d-ing up one of those guys, I would feel much better about signing him.
> ...


Don't want to dissapoint U DMD - But he's not a 2-3 tweener,he's a sf by skill.
He does not have the skill of a sg but on defense - U're asking if a guy that hasn't played an nba game in his life can gaurd the best players in the world - so,I don't know really (can anybody gaurd these guys out of Ron,Doug,Pietrus,Bowen and teyshaun...)
A guy like SJax I'm sure he can handle decently - he has size,he's quite quick (for a white guy) and he's very aggressive.I think U can regaurd him as quite a good defender,even in the nba , but don't expect him to be our stopper at this level.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>bullet</b>!
> 
> 
> Don't want to dissapoint U DMD - But he's not a 2-3 tweener,he's a sf by skill.
> ...


Then I think we still have a problem in our lineup even if we sign him.


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## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Darius Miles Davis</b>!
> 
> 
> Then I think we still have a problem in our lineup even if we sign him.


I would agree but We are gonna have a few problems come regular season no matter what.

He sounds good to me at this point.


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## NorthSideHatrik (Mar 11, 2003)

After reading about Nocionni, a few comparisons came to mind... what do you think. I know some of these aren't great... and Just because i say they are similiar in playing style does NOT mean i'm saying he's going to be as good.

Desmond Mason
Al Harrington
Battier?
maybe a poors man's Ron Artest?


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## bullet (Jul 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Darius Miles Davis</b>!
> 
> 
> Then I think we still have a problem in our lineup even if we sign him.


Yes,we do!

DMD - we R accumalating,not running for championship next season.we have to put ourselves in the position we have enough good players in certain positions so we can trade and get value back.like before the draft we hardly had anything with value to trade that wouldn't leave us with a new hole once we trade them,and Pax is trying to build a core of good players - *and I think Nocioni is a good player* - and can help us even if he cannot gaurd the sg studs in the league.how could we cut Hassel over Mason(that got us the man Rick) is beyond me,because he sounds just like the guy U'd love to have right now:sigh:


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## bullet (Jul 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>NorthSideHatrik</b>!
> After reading about Nocionni, a few comparisons came to mind... what do you think. I know some of these aren't great... and Just because i say they are similiar in playing style does NOT mean i'm saying he's going to be as good.
> 
> Desmond Mason
> ...


I wanted to say poors man Ron - but U gotta be really crazy to be like Ron.

He's less a 4 than Harrington,and less a 2 than Mason,and he's more athletic and driving to the basket than Battier.
He's a sf,and a sf only imo - and RL's comparison though not perfect has to be the closest - Harpering,more athletic,less ??

Nocioni's style is very hard to compare to another player apparently...


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## WookiesOnRitalin (Jan 22, 2004)

Answer these questions gentlemen:

Can he average 10-13 ppg?

Can he shoot 34-37% from 3?

Can he shoot 41-43% from the field?

Can he grab 5 rpg?

Is he going to play hard?

Is he going to work hard?

Can he defend the 3?

Is he going to disrupt team chemistry?


If you asked me:

Yes
Yes
Yes
Yes
Yes
Yes
Yes
No


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## WookiesOnRitalin (Jan 22, 2004)

Honestly...do we need much more than that?


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## NorthSideHatrik (Mar 11, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>WookiesOnRitalin</b>!
> Answer these questions gentlemen:
> 
> Can he average 10-13 ppg?
> ...


The only place i dissagree is on the 3 pointers. i bet his percentage is closer to 28% He's a mid range jumper kind of guys, with a 3pter thats improving.... meaning its not anything special, but its not crap either.


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## Lurch (Nov 3, 2003)

What little I seen of Nocioni he looked really quick. The man is fast and a good dunker. He also looks strong.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

At this point in the game, I see getting him on the team as nothing but a good thing. I spose there's a chance he could be an outright bust, but he seems to be, at worst, a quantum leap above Lint, Dupree, a used up Pip, and a wimpy ERob. With him and Deng we've at the very worst stopped the bleeding at the 3. The question will be to see how good they turn out.


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## EasyMoney (Nov 24, 2003)

NOCIONI is a great pick by Pax, if you go by his stats for his career he shoots above .500 from 2 point land, and above .396 from 3 point land. The only concern I would have is the number of games they play compared to the nba, would he get tired over the long season. I haven't heard this said yet but he was a team mate of Macijauskas playing for TAU. I must be dreaming, but could we get both of them


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## MagillaGorilla (Jul 8, 2004)

Just a quote form the web on him. I like what I'm reading. 

Nocioni, Andrés; Argentina, Forward - People who saw Nocioni throw down his monster dunks in the faces of Tim Duncan and Kevin Garnett during the 1999 World Basketball Championship qualifying tournament will never forget what they saw. Standing only 6'7", Nocioni plays taller than most players. He thrives in physical games, taking charges and bullying his way to the basket. But he is more than muscle and long hair. He has a great shooting touch. Expect him to make a huge impact in Athens. He plays in Spain now, but NBA scouts have been watching the status of his contracts for a long time now.


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## MagillaGorilla (Jul 8, 2004)

Edit - oops


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## MagillaGorilla (Jul 8, 2004)

Sorry guys! I'm trying to attach a pic but I can't seem to get it to work right.
:no:


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## Kismet (Mar 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Mikedc</b>!
> At this point in the game, I see getting him on the team as nothing but a good thing. I spose there's a chance he could be an outright bust, but he seems to be, at worst, a quantum leap above Lint, Dupree, a used up Pip, and a wimpy ERob. With him and Deng we've at the very worst stopped the bleeding at the 3. The question will be to see how good they turn out.


If he signs we'll have to remember he's an NBA rookie, albeit one with more seasoning than most. Still, I expect it will take him time to make the adjustment to a new country, a new league, and a lot of very outstanding players whose tendencies he'll have to learn.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

This is really the guy we want," general manager John Paxson said. "He's a small forward who plays a physical game. He has been a professional [in Europe] for years. He's from the same national team as [Spurs guard] Manu Ginobili. This is a competitive guy who would fit us perfectly."

Paxson scouted Nocioni at a tournament in Spain in February. Signing him would dovetail nicely with the Bulls' plan to bring Luol Deng along slowly. It also would glue Eddie Robinson firmly to the bench if he isn't included in a trade to the Knicks.

Nocioni's deal is believed to be for three years and near $3 million annually. It leaves the Bulls with enough money to pursue players like Lithuanian shooting guard Arvydas Macijauskas or veteran Toni Kukoc.

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune...sbits,1,3762308.story?coll=cs-bulls-headlines


Dang, i go away for a few days and come back and I seemed to have missed a lot! If we sign him for portion of the MLE, Wonderful!! I Know many on this forum talked about him all last season. He will help the bulls. Is he a star? I don't know but he can't be worse than Dupree and E-rob. I love what I am reading. 

Kudos to Pax for not trading Jamal just to trade him. The NY trade was bad for us. Very bad. Remember we do not have to trade Jamal. So Zeke tried and John is not backing down, so far.


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