# The official 'Scott Skiles needs to go' thread



## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

Please, people. Listen to the rain. A change is needed. It's not the player's. It's pot-head Skiles. Get rid of this guy. I can't bear his LOGIC (if you could call it that) and his comments. On si.com he says the NBA 'favors' the Orlando Magic. Where did this logic come from. While you're smoking your pot??? Please Skiles, your baldness makes me sick and of course, you're pathetic inexcusable coaching makes me SICK. 

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/scorecard/03/06/truth.rumors.nba/index.html

There are many other problems I have with you such as not allowing Big Ben to wear a headband. Why??? He isn't Eddie Robinson or some PUNK like that. Please, allow Big Ben a headband. Maybe that's why he is playing half-*** most of the time?? You ever think of that Skiles??? Don't think so dumb-*** pot-head.

I'm so sick of this guy!! Go back to Big Shaq and give him a hug since you like your former players so much and never talk anything positive about your own players other than of course Du!! No one else but your 'partner' DU!!! How is that going?? Hope Du can win a Championship for you pot-head.

Skiles, how much is your contract?? You deserve about 1/10 of that now. You SUCK!! Unless you have a big plan or a secret agenda the player's don't know about (like giving P.J. more minutes so Big Ben doesn't have to try and get rebounds by himself and no more PT for Du and Malik) I'm not going to change my opinion about you.

Skiles, get the hell out of here you pot-head!!!


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## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

I'm also sick about how he talks bout the players 'not giving enough effort' when they lose. It's not always that pot-head!! It's your mind-boggling coaching. You ever look at yourself in the mirror. Stop that pot!! You had enough already!!! It's not that the players arent giving any effort, its that you are getting out-coached because you don't know how to coach POT-HEAD.


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## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

This is how the players feel about Scott Skiles.


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## kulaz3000 (May 3, 2006)

Pothead? You arguement that him being a bad coach is because you assume his a pothead? [edit]

I can think of more than a dozen coaches that are alot worse, that have coaching jobs, whom are only coaching because they have good "relationships" with management or alike. Also if your picking a game where you think Skiles had been "out-coached", the Miami game was not the game to use as an example. When a team loses by 30 points it has everything to do with the team effort, if a team loses in the last few mintues because of unsucessful plays or not being able to score, or missing a defensive assignment, that could be out-coached. But losing by 30points has everything to do with the team bring it and putting effort.

[edit - no personal stuff. -vf]


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## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

kulaz3000 said:


> Pothead? You arguement that him being a bad coach is because you assume his a pothead? [edit]
> 
> I can think of more than a dozen coaches that are alot worse, that have coaching jobs, whom are only coaching because they have good "relationships" with management or alike. Also if your picking a game where you think Skiles had been "out-coached", the Miami game was not the game to use as an example. When a team loses by 30 points it has everything to do with the team effort, if a team loses in the last few mintues because of unsucessful plays or not being able to score, or missing a defensive assignment, that could be out-coached. But losing by 30points has everything to do with the team bring it and putting effort.
> [edit]


No, I don't have a problem with him being a pot-head. But I do have a problem with his coaching in general. No, this is not some sort of retaliation because of one game in which many people here seem to do and lose control of themselves. This has been boiling in my head for some time now and I decided today was the perfect time. What better to talk about after a 30 POINT LOSS!!

[edit -vf]


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## bre9 (Jan 8, 2006)

Agree Skiles is also a stubborn coach he benches the wrong guy's and don't subsitute the guy's he suppose to.


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## L.O.B (Jun 13, 2002)

I disagree, I think Skiles is a fine coach and other than last night's game, you haven't witnessed a lack of effort from the team in a league where many teams take nights off. How about that for a run on sentence?


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## dougthonus (Jul 18, 2006)

Most complaints about Skiles are pretty baseless.

There are a couple complaints that to me have some merit:
1) He was unable to work with Tyson Chandler effectively. I'm 50/50 on the validity of this one since Chandler was very good in 04/05, and you have to wonder how much of the blame goes to Chandler for not coming into shape in 05/06, and for the Bulls not having a good front court partner for him to work with. Obviously no coach will get along with every player, but there is definitely a concern Skiles may have a more limited view of what types of players he could effectively work with. 

2) Earlier in the season, when the Bulls were vastly more effective with Gordon on the floor than when he wasn't on the floor, Skiles was still pretty stubborn about increasing his minutes, and kept him in the role of reserve too long. This is somewhat questionable as well as Gordon was slumping badly before going to the bench, but Gordon's fate (and the teams) changed with the schedule more so than with Gordon being moved to the bench.


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## transplant (Jul 31, 2002)

Only read the beginning of this thread. Took me about a minute and a half.

I want those 90 seconds back.


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

This thread is just ridiculous.... Scott Skiles isn't a perfect coach but he's done a pretty good job in his time with the Bulls. 

I guess my only advice for the unreasoned hatred of Chris Duhon displayed by the original poster is to watch more basketball.... A LOT more basketball... maybe it'll sink in that playing defense and running an offense are important attributes for a PG, and most NBA teams would be perfectly happy with Duhon as their backup 1.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

I tend to think the Bulls' lack of other frontcourt options contributed to the deterioration of Skiles and Chandler's relationship. Just like any other relationship, when other circumstances are bad it puts stress on things.


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

If he hates Skiles this much because of his former drug use, I wonder what he thinks of Bill Walton.


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## Deng101 (Jan 13, 2005)

If Skiles doesnt win a playoff series this season, he has to be on the hotseat. Also im sick of lineups of Duhon, Sefolosha, Griffin, Griffin, and Malik Allen. Thats fine if the game is a blowout but when the game is still close or still early I dont want to see that crap.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

Pothead.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

Scott Skiles' "420" jib


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## Soulful Sides (Oct 10, 2005)

I honestly believe that some people and losing.


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## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

Pot kicks ***.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)




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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

jnrjr79 said:


>


As everyone always says, "yellow and blue vertical stripes are slimming."


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## giusd (Apr 17, 2003)

How about a "lets give it a rest" thread.

We are headed into the playoffs for the third season in a row with a great young core of players that will only get better who have totally signed on to the pax/skiles system. How about lets let the team develop and see what happens.

david


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

giusd said:


> How about a "lets give it a rest" thread.
> 
> We are headed into the playoffs for the third season in a row with a great young core of players that will only get better who have totally signed on to the pax/skiles system. How about lets let the team develop and see what happens.
> 
> david


**eep...eeeeeeeeeeeeeeppppp**

"dude...take it...still lit..."

**cough cough**


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## BeZerker2008 (Jun 29, 2006)

There are other coach's out there that don't coddle their players. Greg Popovich comes to mind, I remember him just outright screaming at Tony Parker. Yet he has three championships and keeps his team in contention every year to show for it.

Skiles is far from perfect but having this team have winning records *&* in 3 consecutive playoff appearances is not too shabby considering he doesn't have a go-to all-star player.


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## BULLHITTER (Dec 6, 2005)

players only have to respect coaches, they don't have to be in love with them; show me a coach all the players love and i'll show you a losing coach, one as likely to be unemployed.:thumbdown:


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## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

BeZerker2008 said:


> There are other coach's out there that don't coddle their players. Greg Popovich comes to mind, I remember him just outright screaming at Tony Parker. Yet he has three championships and keeps his team in contention every year to show for it.
> 
> Skiles is far from perfect but having this team have winning records *&* in 3 consecutive playoff appearances is not too shabby considering he doesn't have a go-to all-star player.


Popovich is a hell of a lot better coach because he ADJUSTS during the game. Skiles does not ADJUST. He simply sticks to his guns and when it doesn't work, he blames his players for a 'lack of effort.' I remember the other day, Don Nelson, the Warriors coach put the shoulders of blame on him because he hasn't put the Warriors on the winning path even with all sorts of injuries.

Even Red Auerbach and Phil Jackson has one thing common. They ADJUST. Does Skiles do this??? No hardly. He justs inserts different players and hopes it works.

This is another reason why I am starting to dislike Skiles.

Oh yeah, I said I don't have a problem with Pot-Heads. Please read the thread before some of you say the same things. It's very annoying. Also, stop making assumptions about me!! Such as Rhyder for example. Rhyder, can I assume you don't like the Bulls??? See, that's how I feel about Skiles. OK??


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

bullybullz said:


> Popovich is a hell of a lot better coach because he ADJUSTS during the game. Skiles does not ADJUST. He simply sticks to his guns and when it doesn't work, he blames his players for a 'lack of effort.' I remember the other day, Don Nelson, the Warriors coach put the shoulders of blame on him because he hasn't put the Warriors on the winning path even with all sorts of injuries.
> 
> Even Red Auerbach and Phil Jackson has one thing common. They ADJUST. Does Skiles do this??? No hardly. He justs inserts different players and hopes it works.
> 
> ...


???

This is mystifying. If anything, the knock on Skiles has always been that he's quick to yank people and makes too many adjustments (i.e. doesn't have a dependable, set rotation).


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## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

Dornado said:


> This thread is just ridiculous.... Scott Skiles isn't a perfect coach but he's done a pretty good job in his time with the Bulls.
> 
> I guess my only advice for the unreasoned hatred of Chris Duhon displayed by the original poster is to watch more basketball.... A LOT more basketball... maybe it'll sink in that playing defense and running an offense are important attributes for a PG, and most NBA teams would be perfectly happy with Duhon as their backup 1.


Don't worry, I've watched enough of DU. If a PG can't run an offense and play somewhat defense which Duhon does, I would not consider him a PG at all. Du SHOULD be able to do these things. The only thing I remotely like about Du is he gives the ball a lot to Big Ben and P.J. to operate down low and I respect Du for that. Everything else, not so much.


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## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

jnrjr79 said:


> ???
> 
> This is mystifying. If anything, the knock on Skiles has always been that he's quick to yank people and makes too many adjustments (i.e. doesn't have a dependable, set rotation).


I understand that but that's because he doesn't know what to do in certain situations. You can sometimes tell from his pot-look face at times. Also, when he is making too many adjustments, he is not 'adjusting' but he is more in a 'panic' mode IMO.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

bullybullz said:


> I understand that but that's because he doesn't know what to do in certain situations. You can sometimes tell from his pot-look face at times. Also, when he is making too many adjustments, he is not 'adjusting' but he is more in a 'panic' mode IMO.


Well, which is it? Does he not adjust? Does he adjust too much? Does he adjust, but does so stupidly? This line of logic is totally amorphous.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

bullybullz said:


> Don't worry, I've watched enough of DU. If a PG can't run an offense and play somewhat defense which Duhon does, I would not consider him a PG at all. Du SHOULD be able to do these things. The only thing I remotely like about Du is he gives the ball a lot to Big Ben and P.J. to operate down low and I respect Du for that. Everything else, not so much.


Wait, so he runs the offense, plays defense, and dishes the ball well down low...

So, what's the criticism here exactly? I think if you want to knock on Duhon, his shooting is pretty much the only assailable part of his game.


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## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

jnrjr79 said:


> Wait, so he runs the offense, plays defense, and dishes the ball well down low...
> 
> So, what's the criticism here exactly? I think if you want to knock on Duhon, his shooting is pretty much the only assailable part of his game.


Well I can think of many but the main arguement is when he comes into the game, the other team starts to cut in our lead or build a bigger lead for whatever reason. That of course, a majority of it is Du.


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## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

jnrjr79 said:


> Wait, so he runs the offense, plays defense, and dishes the ball well down low...
> 
> So, what's the criticism here exactly? I think if you want to knock on Duhon, his shooting is pretty much the only assailable part of his game.


What do you possibly like about Du??? Just wondering.


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## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

jnrjr79 said:


> Well, which is it? Does he not adjust? Does he adjust too much? Does he adjust, but does so stupidly? This line of logic is totally amorphous.


What is it?? I would say making change at a panic rate. That's what I would call it.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

bullybullz said:


> What is it?? I would say making change at a panic rate. That's what I would call it.


Which is the exact opposite of what you originally said.

My suspicion here is that you are grasping at straws just because you don't like the guy.


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## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

transplant said:


> Only read the beginning of this thread. Took me about a minute and a half.
> 
> I want those 90 seconds back.


Scott Skiles: Here. Take it!!! Right here!!! Take It!! Oh well, guess you don't want some eh.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

bullybullz said:


> What do you possibly like about Du??? Just wondering.


You can't honestly believe there's nothing to like. I don't think Duhon has a long-term future here if Thabo develops, but he's a good backup 1, and likely a starter for some teams.

He is responsible with the ball, passes well, plays great defense, and runs the offense effectively. He's just a bad shooter.


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## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

jnrjr79 said:


> Which is the exact opposite of what you originally said.
> 
> My suspicion here is that you are grasping at straws just because you don't like the guy.


Why is it the opposite. This guy's 'adjustments' is to bring in his 'partner' Du in the game. WOW!! What an 'adjustment.' If you could call it that. How many times have you seen this guy play zone when the defense SUCKS (especially when P.J. is gone). Hardly. Switching to zone, I would call it an 'ADJUSTMENT.'


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## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

jnrjr79 said:


> You can't honestly believe there's nothing to like. I don't think Duhon has a long-term future here if Thabo develops, but he's a good backup 1, and likely a starter for some teams.
> 
> He is responsible with the ball, passes well, plays great defense, and runs the offense effectively. He's just a bad shooter.


Plays great defense??? I can argue that point.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

bullybullz said:


> Why is it the opposite. This guy's 'adjustments' is to bring in his 'partner' Du in the game. WOW!! What an 'adjustment.' If you could call it that. How many times have you seen this guy play zone when the defense SUCKS (especially when P.J. is gone). Hardly. Switching to zone, I would call it an 'ADJUSTMENT.'


The opposite of not making an adjustment is making an adjustment. You started by saying he made too few adjustments, now you say he makes too many. I'm not sure how to explain this any more clearly.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

bullybullz said:


> Plays great defense??? I can argue that point.


I didn't say you couldn't. You asked me what I liked. I answered.

By the way, there's a difference between stating you _can_ argue the point and _actually arguing_ it. What about Duhon's defense do you view as deficient?


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## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

jnrjr79 said:


> The opposite of not making an adjustment is making an adjustment. You started by saying he made too few adjustments, now you say he makes too many. I'm not sure how to explain this any more clearly.


I said at first he makes a few adjustments. Then I said he makes panic changes. That is not an adjustment. That is PANICKING.


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## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

jnrjr79 said:


> I didn't say you couldn't. You asked me what I liked. I answered.
> 
> By the way, there's a difference between stating you _can_ argue the point and _actually arguing_ it. What about Duhon's defense do you view as deficient?


Well, he is a terrible help defender, he always is not in the right position. He is always moving when trying to take a charge, he lacks size so that's a disadvantage already, and he makes stupid silly fouls and especially during the worst time. Such as fouling and the other team is in the penalty.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

bullybullz said:


> I said at first he makes a few adjustments. Then I said he makes panic changes. That is not an adjustment. That is PANICKING.


No, you said he does not adjust. 

Panicking and adjusting are the same thing in this context. Panicking is just an _overly anxious_ adjustment. If Skiles is prone to panicking, then that means he makes too many adjustments, not too few.

You're being entirely inconsistent here. It's ok if you just don't like Skiles or Duhon for whatever reason, but it's pretty clear it's not any of the reasons you're articulating here.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

bullybullz said:


> Well, he is a terrible help defender, he always is not in the right position. He is always moving when trying to take a charge, he lacks size so that's a disadvantage already, and he makes stupid silly fouls and especially during the worst time. Such as fouling and the other team is in the penalty.


Interesting. I think he is a good defender. He has locked down many players who have distinct size advantages over him. He does a good job of jamming up passing lanes and cutting off drives.

I have not noticed the "silly fouls" criticism at all.


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## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

jnrjr79 said:


> No, you said he does not adjust.
> 
> Panicking and adjusting are the same thing in this context. Panicking is just an _overly anxious_ adjustment. If Skiles is prone to panicking, then that means he makes too many adjustments, not too few.
> 
> You're being entirely inconsistent here. It's ok if you just don't like Skiles or Duhon for whatever reason, but it's pretty clear it's not any of the reasons you're articulating here.


What reason do you think it is since you think you know SO MUCH about me??? You smoking pot with Skiles??? Hmmmmmm......


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## transplant (Jul 31, 2002)

bullybullz said:


> Well I can think of many but the main arguement is when he comes into the game, the other team starts to cut in our lead or build a bigger lead for whatever reason. That of course, a majority of it is Du.


At the risk of letting facts get in the way of a bad argument, Duhon is pretty much a neutral player, that is, the Bulls do as well with him on the court as they do with him on the bench.

http://www.82games.com/0607/0607CHI.HTM


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## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

I don't know much. But if there is something I do know, its that Scott Skiles is a gay pothead who favors poor defense.


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## McBulls (Apr 28, 2005)

I realize that most complaints about Skiles will relate to his choice of lineups. But the coach is also responsible for the defensive and offensive sets the team plays.

On balance I think Skiles has done a pretty good job of managing his personnel -- Tim Thomas notwithstanding. I'm not terribly fond of his apparent tendency to put players in a "dog house", but it seems to be his way of motivating them. Phil Jackson's kinder, gentler way is probably more effective, but few coaches seem to be able to motivate their players this way.

As far as playmaking goes, several deficiencies stick out, and most relate to the use of and response to zone defenses. 

The Bulls seem to be completely disorganized when confronted with an agressive 3-2 zone that protects the perimeter. The zone neutralizes their strong pick and roll game and their drive and pass games. Most commentators think the Bulls ineffectiveness is due to the relative weakness of their inside offensive game, but there are other ways to attack an aggressive zone -- mostly with plays that free up a guard in the middle for a foul line jump shot. The Bulls simply don't seem to have practiced this much. That's Skiles' fault.

The Bulls are also easily flummoxed by half and 3/4 court trapping defenses. They simply don't seem to have the presence and PRACTICE beating these tactics. They will pay for it in the playoffs.

Finally on defense, it is remarkable that when the Bulls elect to play small ball they rarely seem to use zone defenses or half-court trapping defenses themselves. Yet those are the defenses one would expect a smaller team to employ. 

Maybe this simply reflects the relatively high turnover the team has had this season and the fact that they are still learning to play together. But it's Skiles' job to see that this gets done. Hopefully that occurs before the playoffs begin.


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## King Joseus (May 26, 2003)

jnrjr79 said:


> Interesting. I think he is a good defender. *He has locked down many players who have distinct size advantages over him.* He does a good job of jamming up passing lanes and cutting off drives.
> 
> I have not noticed the "silly fouls" criticism at all.


Including Kobe.


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## kulaz3000 (May 3, 2006)

I just don't see a purpose to this thread. Why are we even talking about Duhon now? He is a player with limitations, that he is well aware of. But the positives are is that he plays within his limitations, and doesn't go crazy trying to think his better than he is. He is a role player, and will remain a role player the rest of his life and he is good at his role.

Regarding Skiles as a coach, BullyBullz, you give no definitive arguement that he is a bad coach. Like players, coaches have different attributes, approaches, methods, different strengths and weaknesses. Also like how some players play badly in certain systems, and play well in others, some coaches coach well coaching players that fit their system and vice versa.

That being said, when Skiles coached the Phoniex Suns, he played to his personel of a running and gunning team with relative amount of succuess, because he knew he could rely on Kidd to allow that team to run. When he became the coach for the Bulls, he adjusted to the personel of the team, and changed his coaching to more of a defensive approach to great success. Sure, his not perfect by any means, some of his scrowling and mannerisims that he still thinks his a player is a little off putting at times during games, but regardless, he has proven his very prideful and at the end of the day wants to win.

Im also sick of people constantly bringing up the headband issue, people have to get over it. Using that as the reason why Wallace isn't playing like his past self. There is one reason why his not playing as well he has when he was in Detriot and that one reason is AGE, its not some stupid cloth around his head.


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## chibul (Oct 14, 2006)

Dornado said:


> This thread is just ridiculous.... Scott Skiles isn't a perfect coach but he's done a pretty good job in his time with the Bulls.
> 
> I guess my only advice for the unreasoned hatred of Chris Duhon displayed by the original poster is to watch more basketball.... A LOT more basketball... maybe it'll sink in that playing defense and running an offense are important attributes for a PG, and most NBA teams would be perfectly happy with Duhon as their backup 1.


At the same time, those teams wouldn't *dream* of putting him in the final few minutes of a game, either.

A lot of the hatred for Duhon is that he's not a good clutch performer, and takes away minutes from those who are. That, and he makes some bonehead plays.


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## chibul (Oct 14, 2006)

bullybullz said:


> What reason do you think it is since you think you know SO MUCH about me??? You smoking pot with Skiles??? Hmmmmmm......


If the whole pot thing isn't an issue, why the hell do you keep bringing it up?

Honestly, this is absurd. You bash Skiles for one thing, get proven wrong, then completely change your mind and argue the other side of the point. You write letters to John Paxson in the forum acting as though he'll watch them. And post after post after post tells us how P.J. Brown invented the internet, walks on water, and is better than any Bulls player in NBA history.

Do us ALL a favor, and STOP.


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## chibul (Oct 14, 2006)

kulaz3000 said:


> Why are we even talking about Duhon now? He is a player with limitations, that he is well aware of. But the positives are is that he plays within his limitations, and doesn't go crazy trying to think his better than he is.


I'd call that a completely inaccurate statement.


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

chibul said:


> If the whole pot thing isn't an issue, why the hell do you keep bringing it up?
> 
> Honestly, this is absurd. You bash Skiles for one thing, get proven wrong, then completely change your mind and argue the other side of the point. You write letters to John Paxson in the forum acting as though he'll watch them. And post after post after post tells us how P.J. Brown invented the internet, walks on water, and is better than any Bulls player in NBA history.
> 
> Do us ALL a favor, and STOP.



A *freakin'* MEN

:clap2: 


bullybullz, your contention that skiles is a pothead and in love with duhon is good for a few laughs, sure, but it's really a cheap shot and frankly, totally childish and petty. 



i'm kinda surprised the other mods and admins in this thread haven't called you on your ****.

so i will. you're _really lucky_ i am no longer a mod. i've kept my mouth shut for a while, but like chibul, i implore you to resist this kind of stuff in the future. it just makes you look ignorant.


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## TheDynasty (Feb 28, 2006)

transplant said:


> Only read the beginning of this thread. Took me about a minute and a half.
> 
> I want those 90 seconds back.


I agree. The fact that he tried to blame Ben's play on the lack of the headband made me laugh, if that's the case ben should be the one going.

Also, since when did Skiles become a pothead, did I miss something?


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## step (Sep 19, 2005)

That was almost as painful as reading a post by ballerkingn.

Actually scratch that, took a glimpse of the second paragraph and it's even worse.


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## bre9 (Jan 8, 2006)

Skiles just make dumb coaching moves that's why the bulls aren't going to make it far.


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## WestHighHawk (Jun 28, 2003)

In rereading this thread, I only have one thing to say, "Sounds like someone woke up on the wrong side of the rock this morning."


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## King Joseus (May 26, 2003)

WestHighHawk said:


> In rereading this thread, I only have one thing to say, "Sounds like someone woke up on the wrong side of the rock this morning."


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## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

I could use some of Skiles' pot right about now.


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## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

TheDynasty said:


> I agree. The fact that he tried to blame Ben's play on the lack of the headband made me laugh, if that's the case ben should be the one going.
> 
> Also, since when did Skiles become a pothead, did I miss something?


You asked when??

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Skiles

_While in East Lansing, he was arrested and charged with felony possession of cocaine and misdemeanor possession of marijuana. The cocaine charge was dropped when Skiles pleaded guilty to the marijuana possession. He was arrested and charged with drunken driving a year later and served 15 days in jail. During his senior season, Skiles committed a parole violation on an earlier marijuana conviction, and served a brief jail sentence[1]._


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## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

transplant said:


> At the risk of letting facts get in the way of a bad argument, Duhon is pretty much a neutral player, that is, the Bulls do as well with him on the court as they do with him on the bench.
> 
> http://www.82games.com/0607/0607CHI.HTM


Fine, he is a neutral player. Certainly doesn't help the Bulls much then. We need Thabo or Griff take all his minutes away from Du so its not 'neutral.'


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## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

King Joseus said:


> Including Kobe.


Yeah, but what's he done recently. Has he stopped anyone recently. I would say NO.


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## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

kulaz3000 said:


> I just don't see a purpose to this thread. Why are we even talking about Duhon now? He is a player with limitations, that he is well aware of. But the positives are is that he plays within his limitations, and doesn't go crazy trying to think his better than he is. He is a role player, and will remain a role player the rest of his life and he is good at his role.
> 
> Regarding Skiles as a coach, BullyBullz, you give no definitive arguement that he is a bad coach. Like players, coaches have different attributes, approaches, methods, different strengths and weaknesses. Also like how some players play badly in certain systems, and play well in others, some coaches coach well coaching players that fit their system and vice versa.
> 
> ...


I never said Skiles is bad. I think he is the wrong coach now to coach this team. I mean come on!! He fought with P.J. and Big Ben who are both respected hard-working vetereans. There is a problem here. It's not the players its Skiles. 

DO you HONESTLY think SKiles can give us a title?? I am starting to doubt it with his in-game decisions.

Regarding Big Ben, every player has a motivator and each is different. For some, it's tatoos, for others its those sleeves or armbands/high socks and for others headbands. For example Marcus Williams wears his socks backwards. Or Deng is playing because he realizes how fortunate he is living in the US instead of Sudan. Every player has some sort of motivator within himself.

I think in the case of Ben it was the headband. And Skiles took it away from him. I think this might be part of the reason why Big Ben at times doesn't play as Big Ben.


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## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

chibul said:


> If the whole pot thing isn't an issue, why the hell do you keep bringing it up?
> 
> Honestly, this is absurd. You bash Skiles for one thing, get proven wrong, then completely change your mind and argue the other side of the point. You write letters to John Paxson in the forum acting as though he'll watch them. And post after post after post tells us how P.J. Brown invented the internet, walks on water, and is better than any Bulls player in NBA history.
> 
> Do us ALL a favor, and STOP.


Man what's your problem!! YOUR sig is that the Bulls will never win a title as long as Scott Skiles is the coach. Seems like you should be in favor of me instead of bashing me!!!


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## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

mizenkay said:


> A *freakin'* MEN
> 
> :clap2:
> 
> ...


Wow, talk about freedom being taken away.....


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## rwj333 (Aug 10, 2002)




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## King Joseus (May 26, 2003)

bullybullz said:


> I never said Skiles is bad. I think he is the wrong coach now to coach this team. I mean come on!! He fought with P.J. and Big Ben who are both respected hard-working vetereans. There is a problem here. It's not the players its Skiles.
> 
> DO you HONESTLY think SKiles can give us a title?? I am starting to doubt it with his in-game decisions.
> 
> ...





> I never said Skiles is bad.





> Please Skiles, your baldness makes me sick and of course, you're *pathetic inexcusable coaching* makes me SICK.


bullybullz, I respect your right to having your own opinion on these things, but some of these arguments are bordering on the ridiculous and/or you're contradicting yourself.The idea that Big Ben's motivator is his headband certainly hasn't got anything to back it up...


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## King Joseus (May 26, 2003)

Anyhow, if we're talking Wallace's motivation here, we can always look back to some old stuff...

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/basketball/nba/spurs/stories/MYSA061605.3S.BKNpistons.ben.12958641.html



> As for Wallace's own source of motivation? He said after Tuesday's game his wife had threatened to withhold food if he didn't play better.
> 
> On Wednesday, he was asked how often she reverts to such tactics.
> 
> "She does that all the time," Wallace said. "She locks me in the closet, too."


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## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

King Joseus said:


> bullybullz, I respect your right to having your own opinion on these things, but some of these arguments are bordering on the ridiculous and/or you're contradicting yourself.The idea that Big Ben's motivator is his headband certainly hasn't got anything to back it up...


Alright I GIVE UP!!! Actually I'm not.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Slightly, just slightly OT question:

Why did the Bulls fire Doug Collins as coach and hire PJax in his place?

They won 47 games with him, and lost in the East Conference Finals which justified his being replaced, and 50 wins and a 2nd round exit the year before that. A Skiles coached bulls team matched one of those win totals one time, and hasn't matched the playoff record even.

(Hey, where's Collins coaching these days anyhow?)

Even more slighty OT: does brittany look better bald?


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

Complaining about Skiles is like complaining about the weather -- there's not a whole hell of a lot you can do about either.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

ScottMay said:


> Complaining about Skiles is like complaining about the weather -- there's not a whole hell of a lot you can do about either.


And that's a fact, jack!


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## narek (Jul 29, 2005)

DaBullz said:


> Slightly, just slightly OT question:
> 
> Why did the Bulls fire Doug Collins as coach and hire PJax in his place?
> 
> ...


Despite the talk of Collins not being able to take the team to the next level - I think it was because he let MJ walk all over him. That wasn't good for the team long term. 

And Brittany looks better when you don't see her.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

narek said:


> Despite the talk of Collins not being able to take the team to the next level - I think it was because he let MJ walk all over him. That wasn't good for the team long term.
> 
> And Brittany looks better when you don't see her.


MJ hired him to be coach in D.C. when he made his 2nd comeback. Seems MJ thought highly of him enough as a coach...

Anyhow, the gist of the question is that does the record really matter? And is it possible that replacing the coach of a rather successful team might lead to even bigger and better things?


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

Wasn't Collins yet another person who was alleged to have slept with Reinsdorf's/Krause's wife/daughter/pet?


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

bullybullz said:


> Oh yeah, I said I don't have a problem with Pot-Heads. Please read the thread before some of you say the same things.


Your arguments against Skiles so far this thread:



> Listen to the rain. A change is needed


The rain is telling me to go buy a jelly donut.



> Skiles is a pot-head


or some variation thereof 8x in your first two posts. You say you hate Skiles, yet part of your argument is to defame him by calling him a pot-head.



> Skiles, your baldness makes me sick


May you never lose your hair.



> There are many other problems I have with you such as not allowing Big Ben to wear a headband. Why??? He isn't Eddie Robinson or some PUNK like that. Please, allow Big Ben a headband. Maybe that's why he is playing half-*** most of the time?? You ever think of that Skiles??? Don't think so dumb-*** pot-head.


Say you are in school and fail a homework assignment. That's like saying, "well the teacher did not give me easy enough questions" instead of trying to discover the answers.

If Ben is playing half-#@$ as you mention because he can't wear a headband, what does that say about Ben Wallace?



> I'm so sick of this guy!! Go back to Big Shaq and give him a hug since you like your former players so much and never talk anything positive about your own players other than of course Du!! No one else but your 'partner' DU!!! How is that going?? Hope Du can win a Championship for you pot-head.


Skiles has never had anything positive to say about the following players:
Kirk
Ben
Luol
Nocioni
Wallace
Thomas
Thabo
Sweetney



> Skiles, how much is your contract?? You deserve about 1/10 of that now. You SUCK!!


The facts are overwhelming.



> Unless you have a big plan or a secret agenda the player's don't know about (like giving P.J. more minutes so Big Ben doesn't have to try and get rebounds by himself and no more PT for Du and Malik) I'm not going to change my opinion about you.


This was your only attempt at saying anything relating to why you don't like Skiles' coaching.

Giving more minutes to P.J. I don't mind, but I'm not sure how much of this is P.J. being old and Skiles trying to save his legs for the end of the season.

Giving no more minutes to Du and Malik I will not agree with. Malik is our only big who can shoot outside of 10 feet, and he is being asked to play a very Othella Harrington like role for us. That said, I'm not a fan of his Malik at C & Deng at PF lineups.



> It's very annoying. Also, stop making assumptions about me!! Such as Rhyder for example. Rhyder, can I assume you don't like the Bulls??? See, that's how I feel about Skiles. OK??


What assumptions did I make? You attacked Skiles calling him a pothead at virtually every opportunity you could in your posts. Luke Walton is a known pothead. I made the statement in a humorous light.

Can you assume I don't like the Bulls? No... I assume you hate Skiles though, and I think I get what you are trying to say. Most of the evidence you provided as to why you hate Skiles seems pretty petty. I like Skiles, so yes I'm going to take a name calling rant on him negatively.


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## Soulful Sides (Oct 10, 2005)

bullybullz said:


> I think he is the wrong coach now to coach this team. I mean come on!! He fought with P.J. and Big Ben who are both respected hard-working vetereans.


He is a respected hard-working coach. Maybe, according to your logic, PJ Brown and Big Ben should go.


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## Soulful Sides (Oct 10, 2005)

DaBullz said:


> Slightly, just slightly OT question:
> 
> Why did the Bulls fire Doug Collins as coach and hire PJax in his place?
> 
> ...


PJax is a players coach.

Who?


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

ScottMay said:


> Wasn't Collins yet another person who was alleged to have slept with Reinsdorf's/Krause's wife/daughter/pet?


Did he smoke pot first?
:biggrin:


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Soulful Sides said:


> PJax is a players coach.
> 
> Who?


I saw an ad on the site asking "Does Brittany look better bald?"


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

DaBullz said:


> I saw an ad on the site asking "Does Brittany look better bald?"


Are we talking about the drapes or the carpet?


:biggrin:


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

bullybullz said:


> I could use some of Skiles' pot right about now.


In reading through the rest of the thread, that was funny.


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

jnrjr79 said:


> Are we talking about the drapes or the carpet?
> 
> 
> :biggrin:


You are correct, sir!


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## chibul (Oct 14, 2006)

bullybullz said:


> Man what's your problem!! YOUR sig is that the Bulls will never win a title as long as Scott Skiles is the coach. Seems like you should be in favor of me instead of bashing me!!!


I'm not going to back someone that makes completely illogical points, and then completely reverses his stance when called out on it.


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## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

chibul said:


> I'm not going to back someone that makes completely illogical points, and then completely reverses his stance when called out on it.


What's so illogical about Skiles playing Du and Malik WAY TOO MANY MINUTES, P.J. and Thabo and Griff and Viktor NOT ENOUGH MINUTES, Skiles should use zone when he inserts the 'small' line-up, his offensive plays sometimes very puzzling, time-outs used at the wrong time or not being used at the right time, taking players out when they are doing fine (Tyrus and P.J. for example) taking players out because of a turnover (Gordon) but when it's Du, he leaves him in the game, puzzling substitutions. 

I also feel unlike other coaches (besides Phil of course) he sits down on his chair way too often and doesn't stand enough telling the players what to do. I understand he want's the players to be more independent and making their own decisions but it doesn't work very well when P.J. Big Ben or Griff aren't out on the court because their is no leadership. I understand this thinking but at some point, the coach has to make the decision's because he is the COACH.

Skiles also doesn't stand up for certain players on his team. For example, he stands up for Du and you can see it when Skiles is clapping when Du makes a shot or makes a nice pass or steals the ball but when it's Gordon, he doesn't always clap and just sit's their with somewhat of a pot-head look... 

Also during time-outs or when Du is being taken out of the game, you can see Skiles pat Du in the butt but when it's Gordon he sometimes doesn't even look at him and says absolutely nothing.

If these point's seem illogical to you I unfortunately don't know what a logical point is...


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## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/bulls.asp?id=289394

_“It’s going to be weird,” he said. “They’re going to be wearing white, so it’s going to be easy. I practice with these guys all the time, so I know their ugly faces.”_

This quote from Chris Duhon really scared me. Everything he says or these kinds of comments I take seriously because I have a certain opinion of this 'man' and so when he said this and his teammates have ugly faces, the only thing I could come up with is that he and Skiles are having some sort of relationship IMO.

Sorry, I just had to post this. Couldn't resist myself.

Edit: Another thing I would like to add is basketball players or for that matter any professional athletes don't say these kind of things, especially when it's your own teammates and it might be a joke. Considering the fact that it comes from Du, I'm not so sure...


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

bullybullz said:


> What's so illogical about Skiles playing Du and Malik WAY TOO MANY MINUTES, P.J. and Thabo and Griff and Viktor NOT ENOUGH MINUTES, Skiles should use zone when he inserts the 'small' line-up, his offensive plays sometimes very puzzling, time-outs used at the wrong time or not being used at the right time, taking players out when they are doing fine (Tyrus and P.J. for example) taking players out because of a turnover (Gordon) but when it's Du, he leaves him in the game, puzzling substitutions.
> 
> I also feel unlike other coaches (besides Phil of course) he sits down on his chair way too often and doesn't stand enough telling the players what to do. I understand he want's the players to be more independent and making their own decisions but it doesn't work very well when P.J. Big Ben or Griff aren't out on the court because their is no leadership. I understand this thinking but at some point, the coach has to make the decision's because he is the COACH.
> 
> ...


Nice post. I'm not sure I actually agree, but it's pretty clear to me this is the point you've been making all along.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

bullybullz said:


> http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/bulls.asp?id=289394
> 
> _“It’s going to be weird,” he said. “They’re going to be wearing white, so it’s going to be easy. I practice with these guys all the time, so I know their ugly faces.”_
> 
> ...


This, on the other hand... I'm not too sure about at all 

I mean come on, you don't think that's a bit overboard?


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## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

MikeDC said:


> This, on the other hand... I'm not too sure about at all
> 
> I mean come on, you don't think that's a bit overboard?


Hey, opinions are like *** holes, everyone's got to have one.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

True enough... I just don't really see much evidence to support the opinion that Duhon is a crummy guy who disparages his teammates. They seem to interact with him quite well both on and off the court.


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## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

MikeDC said:


> True enough... I just don't really see much evidence to support the opinion that Duhon is a crummy guy who disparages his teammates. They seem to interact with him quite well both on and off the court.


Could you please define 'interacting well off the court?':lol:


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

bullybullz said:


> Could you please define 'interacting well off the court?':lol:


Well, I know they've been seen in social places together on plenty of occasions and there seem to have been plenty of other Bulls who do charity stuff with him. His charities, in fact. So I have a hard time seeing how his teammates hate him but still go out and party with him and participate in voluntary activities.


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