# Can anyone beat the Kings' ...



## RollWithEm

bench?

With a line-up of:
PG Bobby Jackson
SG Gerald Wallace
SF Hedo Turkoglu
PF Keon Clark
C Scott Pollard
the Kings have the best bench line-up in the league! Who is close?

The only one I can think of is the Hornets:
PG David Wesley
SG Stacey Augmon
SF Lee Nailon
PF George Lynch
C Jamaal Magliore

What benches do you think can handle the Kings?


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## dawicked

That bench can probally beat someone's starting lineup on a bad day. 

Btw, you should add bench onto your title. It would draw more people in imo. I first thought it was just going to be another Kings are badass thread


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## Petey

Nets...

PG- Childs
SG- Harris
SF- Rogers
PF- Williams
CR- Collins

-Petey


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## KingsMan7

RollWithEm: to answer your question, nobody can contend with the King's bench. We have the best bench of the last 20 years.


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## pharcyde

Too bad they can't play at the same time as the starters. Being 2 deep at every position doesn't help much unless you've got injury or foul prone starters. You don't need that much talent to win, and in fact it can actually keep you from doing it. See the Blazers of the past few years.


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## Wilt_The_Stilt

Pacers are close:

*=advantage

PG-Freddie Jones vs. Bobby Jackson*
SG-Ron Mercer* vs. Gerald Wallace (for right now)
SF-Ron Artest* vs. Hedo Turkoglu (Hedo can't start over Christie..)
PF-Austin Croshere vs. Keon Clark*
C-Jonathan Bender vs. Scott Pollard (tie)


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## pharcyde

Since when is Freddie jones a pointguard? Also, if Bender's going to play center then Pollard has the advantage.


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## BizzyRipsta

> Originally posted by <b>Petey</b>!
> Nets...
> 
> PG- Childs
> SG- Harris
> SF- Rogers
> PF- Williams
> CR- Collins
> 
> -Petey


now that's a nice bench.


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## spartanfan2003

> Originally posted by <b>RollWithEm</b>!
> bench?
> 
> With a line-up of:
> PG Bobby Jackson
> SG Gerald Wallace
> SF Hedo Turkoglu
> PF Keon Clark
> C Scott Pollard
> the Kings have the best bench line-up in the league! Who is close?
> 
> The only one I can think of is the Hornets:
> PG David Wesley
> SG Stacey Augmon
> SF Lee Nailon
> PF George Lynch
> C Jamaal Magliore
> 
> What benches do you think can handle the Kings?


I'm sorry, but you are one player weaker, Clark will start, because Webber has been sentenced to jail for 10 years. Where have you been!


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## KingsMan7

> Originally posted by <b>Wilt_The_Stilt</b>!
> Pacers are close:
> 
> *=advantage
> 
> PG-Freddie Jones vs. Bobby Jackson*
> SG-Ron Mercer* vs. Gerald Wallace (for right now)
> SF-Ron Artest* vs. Hedo Turkoglu (Hedo can't start over Christie..)
> PF-Austin Croshere vs. Keon Clark*
> C-Jonathan Bender vs. Scott Pollard (tie)



Why can't Hedo start over Christie? Why have you been hating on Hedo?

I think most GM's would take Hedo over Artest thanks.


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## Wilt_The_Stilt

> Originally posted by <b>KingsMan7</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> Why can't Hedo start over Christie? Why have you been hating on Hedo?
> 
> I think most GM's would take Hedo over Artest thanks.


I mean Hedo doesn't start over Christie-it's a fact..and I am not sure about that other statement, most would take Artest, a player who can play D(which Hedo can't) is a rare things these days, that is why Christie starts, and that is why they would take Artest.


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## KingsMan7

Dude, do you know what the hell your talking about? 

Hedo can't play d, you must have SOLELY based this on his ethnicity and being a euro. 

Hedo can do everything, he is a very good defender and rebounder and is an all around player and a potential superstar. Learn some respect and yes he probably will beat out Doug for the starting 2 spot.


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## R-Star

Not suprised to hear that comming from a guy with the name KINGSman7. Only a kings fan would take Hedo over the best one on one defender in the L. Artest is worth a whole heck of a lot more than Hedo, PERIOD.


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## Petey

*Re: Re: Can anyone beat the Kings' ...*



> Originally posted by <b>Spartanfan2003</b>!
> I'm sorry, but you are one player weaker, Clark will start, because Webber has been sentenced to jail for 10 years. Where have you been!


10 years? LOL... he ain't gonna go to jail for 10 days even... or so most places are saying.

-Petey


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## KingsMan7

> Originally posted by <b>R-Star</b>!
> Not suprised to hear that comming from a guy with the name KINGSman7. Only a kings fan would take Hedo over the best one on one defender in the L. Artest is worth a whole heck of a lot more than Hedo, PERIOD.



Uh, both of you are insane, or Pacer fans or fans of wherever Artest went to college.

Hedo has the potential to be an all-star. Artest is just a role player. Shall we make this another thread or what?


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## KingsMan7

Nevermind, I see that you are a PAcers fan by your profile.


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## HighimBryan

Blazers bench could take the kings

PG-Daniels
SG-Derek Anderson
SF-Ruben Patterson
PF-Zach Randolph
C-Sabonis

The first four always get after it when theyre out there and Sabonis is just a huge guy with great passing skills and a nice J.
Thats what you need in a bench i think.


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## Wiggum

> Originally posted by <b>KingsMan7</b>!
> Hedo has the potential to be an all-star. Artest is just a role player. Shall we make this another thread or what?


No, I can settle it.

I would trade Hedo Turkoglu for Ron Artest in a hearbeat. I like Turkoglu's game, but come on, man, it's Ron Artest.


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## KingsMan7

> Originally posted by <b>Wiggum</b>!
> 
> 
> No, I can settle it.
> 
> I would trade Hedo Turkoglu for Ron Artest in a hearbeat. I like Turkoglu's game, but come on, man, it's Ron Artest.



Wiggum, I can't tell if your being sarcastic or not....


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## Wiggum

> Originally posted by <b>KingsMan7</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> Wiggum, I can't tell if your being sarcastic or not....


I'm being dead serious.


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## KingsMan7

Oh my, I better get off this thread before ya'll take away my sanity.


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## Petey

I think you are insane, I think Artest is overrated, just don't tell any Pacer Fans on the board. 

-Petey


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## HighimBryan

Haha if you took turks Offensive game and shooting and u took Ron Rons D and hustle you would have an instant superstar.


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## "Matt!"

GUYS! What about the Knicks!

C - Michael "White Thunder" Doleac
PF - Othella "Big Fella" Harrington
SF - Lavor "Can I Please Go Back To St. John's?" Postell
SG - Shandon "Don't Call Me Shannon" Anderson
PG - Frank "If He Can't Do It...We're Screwed" Williams

And the THIRD LINE?

C - Felton "I Look Lost" Spencer
PF - Travis "I Have a Ring!" Knight
SF - Clarence "Longest American NBA Name" Weatherspoon
SG - Larry "Who?" Robinson
PG - Howard "No Nickname Needed" Eisley

Psh..you thought the Kings were good...


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## LupinIV

Correction. The King's bench now looks like this:

PG: Bobby Jackson
SG: Hedo Turkoglu
SF: Jumaine Jones
PF: Keon Clark
C: Scott Pollard

I counted 4 guys from this group who are good enough to win starting spots with lesser teams.

11th man: Gerald Wallace
12th man: Lawrence Funderburke

These two would be among the first off the bench in many other teams.

The Kings' talent is getting ridiculous...


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## <<<D>>>

> Originally posted by <b>KingsMan7</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> Uh, both of you are insane, or Pacer fans or fans of wherever Artest went to college.
> 
> Hedo has the potential to be an all-star. Artest is just a role player. Shall we make this another thread or what?


Whoa!! Artest....just a role player and what role is that???
This guy can score from all angles....
I noticed the Pacers can use him as a top option.
He has it - Off the drive, inside/outside, a strong game overall
He's one of the league's top shut down defenders...
which even makes him more complete...
A Role player??? Don't think so....Artest is for reals..
Ron-Ron would love to be matched up against Turko anyday.
He's physical & tough enough to take you away from your game.


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## pharcyde

Hedo over Artest? I'm sorry, but anyone who believes that is either biased, stupid, or both. 

For what it's worth, both guys were born in 1979. Hedo played about 25 minutes a game last year, Artest about 30. Hedo scored 10 points, with 4.5 rebounds and 2 assists a game. Artest scored about 15, with 4.9 rebounds and 2.9 assists a game. Artest has far more steals, nearly 2 more a game. Hedo's fg% was 42.2%. Artest shot 42.3% on the year. Hedo's 3 point percentage was 36.8%, Artest's was 31.2%. Clearly the two players are very similar stat wise, but Artest is a better defender, so he gets the nod as the better player.


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## <<<D>>>

> Originally posted by <b>Wilt_The_Stilt</b>!
> Pacers are close:
> 
> *=advantage
> 
> PG-Freddie Jones vs. Bobby Jackson*
> SG-Ron Mercer* vs. Gerald Wallace (for right now)
> SF-Ron Artest* vs. Hedo Turkoglu (Hedo can't start over Christie..)
> PF-Austin Croshere vs. Keon Clark*
> C-Jonathan Bender vs. Scott Pollard (tie)



This is close....
I agree with this comparison :yes:


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## KingsMan7

> Originally posted by <b>moTIGS</b>!
> Hedo over Artest? I'm sorry, but anyone who believes that is either biased, stupid, or both.
> 
> For what it's worth, both guys were born in 1979. Hedo played about 25 minutes a game last year, Artest about 30. Hedo scored 10 points, with 4.5 rebounds and 2 assists a game. Artest scored about 15, with 4.9 rebounds and 2.9 assists a game. Artest has far more steals, nearly 2 more a game. Hedo's fg% was 42.2%. Artest shot 42.3% on the year. Hedo's 3 point percentage was 36.8%, Artest's was 31.2%. Clearly the two players are very similar stat wise, but Artest is a better defender, so he gets the nod as the better player.



Yeah moron, I understand that Artest is more established in his career right now, he's been playing starter's minutes since he has first been in the league. I'm sure Artest's stats look better than Dmiles',Tim Thomas',Michael Redd's, or a host of other young players who may have higher upsides than Artest but have not yet gotten the experience. 

We shall see. Hedo will be starting this year, with a more prominent role. I like his body much more than Artests, as he is a 6'10 big man who can put it on the floor, pass, shoot, defend 3 positions, and is a very good rebounder.


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## Wilt_The_Stilt

> Originally posted by <b><<<D>>></b>!
> 
> 
> 
> This is close....
> I agree with this comparison :yes:


I wasn't sure about the Bender and Pollard being a tie-but I decided that Pollard is mainly good for fouls and a couple of rebounds.


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## pharcyde

> Originally posted by <b>KingsMan7</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah moron, I understand that Artest is more established in his career right now, he's been playing starter's minutes since he has first been in the league. I'm sure Artest's stats look better than Dmiles',Tim Thomas',Michael Redd's, or a host of other young players who may have higher upsides than Artest but have not yet gotten the experience.
> 
> We shall see. Hedo will be starting this year, with a more prominent role. I like his body much more than Artests, as he is a 6'10 big man who can put it on the floor, pass, shoot, defend 3 positions, and is a very good rebounder.


6'10"? Has he grown? Looks like he's 6'8" to me

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3415

What do you define as upside? Artest is scoring 15 points a game in his 4th season and is in a group of maybe 3-5 guys who can legitamitly claim to be the best defender in the league. Being one of the top 3 defensive players in the league, who can defend just about anyone regardless of position, and still grabbing 5 rebounds a game and score 15-18 a night qualifies him as much more than a role player. So far Hedo hasn't done anything to distinguish himself from a dozen of other young bench players with "potential."


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## R-Star

Good post MoTigs. And hey Kingsman, settle down. No need to attack posters for posting the TRUTH. I made a poll thread after you started this argument and last time I checked it was 10-2 for ARTEST. Hes the better player, regardless on whether your willing to accept it or not.


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## KingsMan7

> Originally posted by <b>moTIGS</b>!
> 
> 
> 6'10"? Has he grown? Looks like he's 6'8" to me
> 
> http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3415
> 
> What do you define as upside? Artest is scoring 15 points a game in his 4th season and is in a group of maybe 3-5 guys who can legitamitly claim to be the best defender in the league. Being one of the top 3 defensive players in the league, who can defend just about anyone regardless of position, and still grabbing 5 rebounds a game and score 15-18 a night qualifies him as much more than a role player. So far Hedo hasn't done anything to distinguish himself from a dozen of other young bench players with "potential."




He's at 208 cm now, with about 10-15 pounds of more muscle. 

He hasn't even gotten his feet wet. 2 years of being stuck on the bench on the NBA's deepest and most talented roster. He'll have his chance this year.


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## KingsMan7

> Originally posted by <b>R-Star</b>!
> Good post MoTigs. And hey Kingsman, settle down. No need to attack posters for posting the TRUTH. I made a poll thread after you started this argument and last time I checked it was 10-2 for ARTEST. Hes the better player, regardless on whether your willing to accept it or not.


R-star, did you read his unnecessary intro post on this thread? 

You have your opinion, I have mine, I don't think it needs to be discussed any further.


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## pharcyde

*2 things*



> Originally posted by <b>KingsMan7</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He's at 208 cm now, with about 10-15 pounds of more muscle.
> 
> He hasn't even gotten his feet wet. 2 years of being stuck on the bench on the NBA's deepest and most talented roster. He'll have his chance this year.


First, prove that he's grown. I haven't read anything about it anywhere except here, from you. 

Second, there has to be a reason why he's been stuck on the bench. It's not like he was a rookie out of college, the competition he played against before coming to the NBA was better than college ball. He was playing behind Peja and Christy. Peja is an All Star, but Christy is a defensive player only, and an overrated on at that IMO.


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## RollWithEm

Can we get back to the bench issue that started this thread? Who's got a bench that can compete with the Kings'?


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## KingsMan7

Dude, do you mind? Or do you want to continue this thread all night? It is getting old. 

There is nothing to prove, all of the stats you can find currently for him are outdated and were taken last year. He is 6'10, who cares if you believe it or not. 

Profesional ball in Turkey is nothing like major conference college ball. Peja and Doug are both above average at their positions and Hedo was just a young player. Now give it a rest, alright?


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## Wiggum

*Re: 2 things*



> Originally posted by <b>moTIGS</b>!
> 
> 
> First, prove that he's grown. I haven't read anything about it anywhere except here, from you.


Here is an article about Hedo Turkoglu at the World Basketball Championship from the Sacramento Bee.

http://www.sacbee.com/content/sports/basketball/kings/story/4192289p-5214645c.html

...

OK, now let's stop this.


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## pharcyde

I'm not doubting the weight gain, I just doubt he grew to 6'10".


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## KingsMan7

Regardless of what any stat sheet says, he was towering over 6'9 at the tail end of last season, and he is 6'10 now.


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## pharcyde

Can you provide any kind of evidence of that other than just your opinion? Could you find a picture of him standing next to someone, a story, or anything like that?  He's 23 years old, which isn't too late to grow a couple of inches, but most of the time people are done by then.


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## BCH

Ok. Because it is impossible to "prove" what height any NBA player is, lets just drop it and continue the discussion about the King's bench depth. If this becomes a back and forth about what height Hedo Turkoglu is, the thread will be a candidate for locking.


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## pharcyde

Why is a thread not allowed to stray from the original topic? Just because a thread turns in a different way than expected isn't a reason to close it down. Doing that will just further take away from the original discussion.


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## BCH

As long as it is done intelligently.

I do not mind a thread straying but when it gets down to an unprovable point that is a back and forth then it has successfully killed the topic. I didn't sayI was closing the thread, I just said monotonous back and forth arguing about his height would make it a candidate. As you can see the thread is indeed still open.

If you want to discuss this further, please PM me.


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## KingsMan7

First off, why do you care? Are you going around on this to annoy me or do you have a real reason as to why you care about Hedo's height? 

A half an inch is all he needed to grow. Any reliable stat sheet had him at 6'9 last year, not 6'8.

http://sackings.com/PlayerRoster.cfm

Secondly, if you must know (why?), I first recieved word that he had grown a lot taller over the summer over on sachoops.com 

http://www.kingsfans.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4255

and a couple of other threads I was trying to bring up but couldn't find. Would you like to make a post there entitled "Hedo 6'10?" You'll get responses. I then paid close attention to Hedo with my own eyes during several Turkey world games, comparing him to different players of different statures. That is all it takes. I suppose I could go on yahoo and try to look up anything that has to do with Hedo's current height, but it aint needed. I know what 6'10 is and that is what he is.


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## pharcyde

*My last post on his height*

I'm not saying he can't grow, but to say that any reliable stat sheet had him listed at 6'9" is a false statement. Both espn.com and nba.com had him listed at 6'8". The only reason I made a big deal about it is because you made it seem like the extra inch or two that he may have grown would automatically improve his game and make him better than Artest, which it won't do.


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## KingsMan7

*Re: My last post on his height*



> Originally posted by <b>moTIGS</b>!
> I'm not saying he can't grow, but to say that any reliable stat sheet had him listed at 6'9" is a false statement. Both espn.com and nba.com had him listed at 6'8". The only reason I made a big deal about it is because you made it seem like the extra inch or two that he may have grown would automatically improve his game and make him better than Artest, which it won't do.



Why not? How many 6'10 ballers do you know who can handle, pass, shoot, and d at 3 positions?


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## pharcyde

First of all, what 3 positions can he defend? Not the 1, and not the 4 or 5. That's 2 by my count. He's not as good at defense as Artest, so Hedo's advantage on offense is neutralized. His height advantage over Artest wouldn't make a huge difference if they played against eachother. I'm done with this for now, it's not going anywhere.


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## R-Star

No point arguing with him. According to Kingsman Hedo can also leap over tall buildings and run faster than a speeding bullet.


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## Wiggum

Guys...you're arguing over a whole two inches of height. Come on. Let's drop this.


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## Petey

> Originally posted by <b>moTIGS</b>!
> Hedo over Artest? I'm sorry, but anyone who believes that is either biased, stupid, or both.
> 
> For what it's worth, both guys were born in 1979. Hedo played about 25 minutes a game last year, Artest about 30. Hedo scored 10 points, with 4.5 rebounds and 2 assists a game. Artest scored about 15, with 4.9 rebounds and 2.9 assists a game. Artest has far more steals, nearly 2 more a game. Hedo's fg% was 42.2%. Artest shot 42.3% on the year. Hedo's 3 point percentage was 36.8%, Artest's was 31.2%. Clearly the two players are very similar stat wise, but Artest is a better defender, so he gets the nod as the better player.


5 more minutes in different systems. Artest played in a wild system, and a system that lacked the power even of the orignal bench posted in this thread... If Hedo was given free rain, with more chances (like those that aren't taken away by Vlade, Webber, Bibby and Peja) he would beat Artest easily... is that agreeable that players around the 2 we are comparing have a bearing on their stats?

-Petey


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## R-Star

I realy cant see how you can say Hedo would beat one of the best defenders in the league easily. Hes an ok scorer, sub par defender, What is special about that?


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## KingsMan7

He's above average defensively and a good rebounder, regardless of RollWithEm's random facts.


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## harper time

> Originally posted by <b>KingsMan7</b>!
> Dude, do you know what the hell your talking about?
> 
> Hedo can't play d, you must have SOLELY based this on his ethnicity and being a euro.
> 
> Hedo can do everything, he is a very good defender and rebounder and is an all around player and a potential superstar. Learn some respect and yes he probably will beat out Doug for the starting 2 spot.



Are you calling Wilt a racist? He was just stating that Christie started over Hedo last year.


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