# Garnett to Boston rumor



## Causeway

KG on the move?

If KG's not going to Chicago, where could he go? From what I'm hearing -- and at this point it's just a hot rumor -- the Wolves and Boston Celtics talking about a Garnett deal. 



> In this scenario, Boston would send Al Jefferson, Gerald Green, Sebastian Telfair, Theo Ratliff, and change to Minnesota along with the No. 5 pick in the upcoming draft. In exchange, the Celtics would get Garnett.
> 
> While a six-for-one trade would create some awkward roster dilemmas, it could work for Boston in this case because the Celtics would be giving up only one member of their core  Jefferson. Meanwhile, the Timberwolves would get an emerging low-post star, a wing player with a lot of upside, another high draft pick and future cap flexibility.
> 
> On Saturday, I spoke with Celtics vice president Danny Ainge about the rumor, and he replied that he would not comment on trade discussions. He did say that the Celtics were talking with a lot of teams at the moment about a number of different trade scenarios, but that none of them were close to happening.
> 
> One could argue that the Celtics would be better off trading Paul Pierce and continuing to create a younger team. But if they are committed to keeping Pierce and trying for more immediate success, the Garnett deal would make sense for the Celtics. A combination of Garnett and Pierce would make the Celtics instant contenders in the Eastern Conference.


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## Premier

Not a big fan of the deal, but Garnett and Pierce is a great tandem.

Perkins / Garnett / Pierce [or Szczerbiak] / Allen [or Pierce] / Rondo


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## Premier

The thing about Garnett, though, is that his contract expires next off-season, meaning, if the rumor is true, he would only be in Boston for one year and then he could exercise his ETO and leave for Orlando, a team that can sign him and put him next to Dwight Howard.


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## Premier

One more thing. This deal would put the Celtics over the luxury tax limit [projected, but unknown until July 10]. The deal raises the Celtics' payroll at 68.23M for only eleven players.


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan

we would be giving up alot in that scenario...i think if we could give up wally instead of theo it might be a more fair deal...but imo anything to get garnett in boston would be acceptable...and correct me if im wrong but if we could send wally instead of theo and theos contract expires at the end of this year would we have enough money to resign garnett after this year???


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## Dirty Dirk41

Garnett In The Bean would be Great But not Losing all those Players.....Big Al may be the Next Garnett or atleast a dominant low post man, the number 5 pick is what is is, plus cash, unless we would be pick up Another Player i DEF! dont like this deal....Just addin garnett Does Help but then are Payroll's ****ed an we Wont get passed the 2nd Round MAX


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## pokpok

uhhh....no..

giving up 5th pick, al jeff AND gerald green!?!!? for KG.

haahhahahahaha


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan

Dirty Dirk41 said:


> an we Wont get passed the 2nd Round MAX



if Lebron and a bunch of mediocre bums can make it to the finals the KG and Pierce would breeze into the finals


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## Ruff Draft

One of the only deals that seem realistic, but will never happen.


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## rainman

That deal would be a steal for the T-wolves.


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## Amareca

Its pure speculation on Fords' part.. I mean he even writes it..

1. He heard Minnesota opened up to KG rumors.
2. He happens to ask Ainge about it, Ainge declines any comment like all GMs but says they are talking with teams.
3. Ford goes home and makes up an unrealisitc 5 for 1 trade that sends KG to Boston and sells it as a legit rumor.

Much more likely Boston would be the 3rd team involved in a KG trade.

Something like
Minnesota gets
Theo Ratliff, Kurt Thomas, Marcus Banks, Ryan Gomes, #5, #29, Atlanta 2008, Phoenix 2009

Boston gets
Shawn Marion

Phoenix gets
Kevin Garnett, Marko Jaric

Also why would KG want to go from a bad team to a team that was even worse?


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## Premier

Why would Boston deal the fifth selection for Shawn Marion in a three team deal when they can just as easily trade the fifth selection and Theo Ratliff for Marion straight up?

In addition, Pierce and Garnett win the Atlantic.


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## Dissonance

Premier said:


> Why would Boston deal the fifth selection for Shawn Marion in a three team deal when they can just as easily trade the fifth selection and Theo Ratliff for Marion straight up?
> 
> In addition, Pierce and Garnett win the Atlantic.


link

D'Antoni said they won't trade Marion for a lottery pick and expiring contract. That is why. He said it would give the sign that they're giving up. They would need an all star in return, because they would have a huge hole.


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## Premier

A core of Jefferson, Pierce, and Marion does not make the Celtics a threat in the playoffs and it puts the Celtics in luxury tax range with Delonte West's extension and Szczerbiak's contract.

Boston has no incentive to do that deal unless Minnesota absorbs Szczerbiak's contract, which is not going to happen.


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## Dissonance

I was just responding to the "why would they do that when you said they can do that straight up." When the Suns wouldn't do it.


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## Amareca

Also its not the Celtics decision, your point is absolutely stupid. Try to make some sense. Great so the Celtics would just trade Ratliff, Gomes and #5 straight up for Marion. You guys don't decide what the Suns do with your parts, its OUR decision to involve a third team and send all that plus Thomas and more picks to Minnesota.


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## Premier

Amareca said:


> Also its not the Celtics decision, your point is absolutely stupid. Try to make some sense.


 Try to abide by the site guidelines.



> Great so the Celtics would just trade Ratliff, Gomes and #5 straight up for Marion. You guys don't decide what the Suns do with your parts, its OUR decision to involve a third team and send all that plus Thomas and more picks to Minnesota.


 It is the Celtics decision; however, to decide to get involved in the trade and the Suns cannot offer the Celtics' players or selections to the Timberwolves without the Celtics' consent, as it violates the tampering laws of the CBA. Unless the Suns plan on waiting two months and then trading the former Celtics players, they would have to disclose intentions of transforming an agreement into a three-team deal.

Also, since Garnett does not have a no trade [edit, mistype] clause in his contract, he could not block a trade to Boston. So, Boston could offer Theo Ratliff, Al Jefferson, Sebastian Telfair, Delonte West, Gerald Green, and multiple draft picks including the fifth selection for Garnett. Would the Timberwolves rather trade Garnett within their own conference or would McHale rather trade him to an Eastern Conference team if the deals are comparable? My guess is that McHale would elect to choose the latter option.

Personally, I don't think either team will trade for Garnett, but do not assume teams are more willing to trade players to Phoenix than other teams.


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## Amareca

KG doesn't need a trade kicker, you know for a fact that the Wolves will respect his trade wishes and you also know for a fact that no team will trade for KG if he doesn't want to go there as he can opt out after next season.

My guess is that McHale would just rather do the best trade for the Wolves and KG, he could care less if KG went to a contender in the West, he knows the Wolves won't contend for as long as KG will keep playing anyway. They will be in complete rebuilding mode.


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## O2K

this would be between two of the worst gms in the league conducting a major deal that could change the face of a whole conference. I doubt this is true.


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## Premier

Pierce would be the best sidekick KG has ever had. They would win the Atlantic together. Until Garnett publically states which teams he would like to go to, your point is irrelevant.


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## pokpok

if we do get KG...bring ricky back..i miss ricky.


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## DaBosox

Premier said:


> Would the Timberwolves rather trade Garnett within their own conference or would McHale rather trade him to an Eastern Conference team if the deals are comparable? My guess is that McHale would elect to choose the latter option.


Yup. For the same reasons everyone chastised Ainge for helping the Pistons in the Rasheed deal. 

We have the advantage of being 1: an EC team 2: a team with tradeable salaries 3: a team with tradeable players. Just by that, the field is narrowed down to about 3-4 teams.

IF we can somehow swing a couple of the deals I've been hearing about like AJ, Danny's Kids, and salary for Garnett, and the #5 for the 12 and Josh Smith I would be very impressed. This team needs a boot in the rear beyond strong words from our backup center.


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## bmac

DaBosox said:


> #5 for the 12 and Josh Smith I would be very impressed.


Wouldn't get your hopes up on this one going through.


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan

pokpok said:


> if we do get KG...bring ricky back..i miss ricky.




good idea actually...i think Theo, Al, gerald, sebastian and the 5 for KG and ricky sounds fair...rajon, ricky, pierce, KG, *insert anyone here* would be an INSANE tandem...especially in the east


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## Premier

#1AWF, that deal does not work under the CBA. The Celtics would have to send out more salary [Szczerbiak, a player that Minnesota would not trade for] or they would need to involve a third team.


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## Ruff Draft

Give me Jefferson + #5 and you can throw whatever else you want at me. Except Wally.


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan

Premier said:


> #1AWF, that deal does not work under the CBA. The Celtics would have to send out more salary [Szczerbiak, a player that Minnesota would not trade for] or they would need to involve a third team.



what about if we add perk??


EDIT: just checked...still doesnt work...they might take wally??? his contract expires in 2 yrs...shouldnt be that bad of a deal


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## Premier

Minnesota spent two years trying to trade Wally. They are not going to trade for him.


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## Ruff Draft

You guys would want Wally & KG together. Wally would feel like playing again!


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan

Premier said:


> Minnesota spent two years trying to trade Wally. They are not going to trade for him.



it wouldnt be trading _for_ wally...it would be trading for AL, gerald and the number 5...teams take on horrible contracts all the time if in nets them the chance to get a young stud or 2...if the options are keep garnett and not win a thing or get 3 young star calibur players and have to take wally on for another yr or 2 i think the 2nd of those options works better for minn


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## Premier

Minnesota does not _have_ to trade with the Celtics and they would not agree to a trade that involves them taking on Wally's contract. In my opinion, we can keep the fifth selection in a Garnett trade or at the very least, a swap of first-round picks. Ratliff's contract and Jefferson are quite valuable and Gerald Green gives them a good propsect. Add Telfair's contract and Minnesota's future first that we own [that won't amount to anything] and that's fairly realistic.


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## Causeway

It used to be that - 

we'd have to give up Pierce to get Garnett. Now a possibility exists that we have enough other pieces to be able to get Garnett, and some would rather keep the pieces.

Thanks Danny.


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## E.H. Munro

XMATTHEWX said:


> You guys would want Wally & KG together. Wally would feel like playing again!


Garnett has a trade kicker, which means that his salary for next year (for trade purposes) is around $29 million (I believe, I'm not certain whether the kicker gets divided between the two years for a trade). So Wally would have to be included to make the numbers work. On the bright side, we can relieve you of another bit of effluvium, such as Marko Jaric.


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## Premier

The trade kicker is allocated over his two remaining years [including the ETO year].

<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td class="alt2" style="border: 1px inset ;"><table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td style="border: 1px inset ;" class="alt2">Originally Posted by *JCB

* _http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=2761~2389~687~2417~261&teams=16~16~16~16~2_
</td> </tr> </tbody></table> 
I do not think that this rumor has any truth to it, but don't use ESPN's trade kicker when it's information is false. First off, when Garnett signed his 100M extension in 2003, the contract included a trade kicker, likely worth the maximum 15% of the remaining value of the contract. Since trade kickers do include early termination option years, Garnett's trade bonus of 6.75M would allocate over two years, making Garnett's current contract value 25.375M. Eighty percent of that figure minus $100,000 is 20.2M. Subtracting the contracts of Ratliff, Telfair, Jefferson, and Green leaves the Celtics acquiring 25.375M in salary while only trading 18.150938M in salary. The Celtics would need to trade at least 2.049062M more in salary. Enter Tony Allen and Allan Ray and their combined salaries of 2.556M. Effectively the Celtics would be trading six players for one player; however, in my opinion, there is no need to include the fifth selection, as Jefferson is an all-star talent, Ratliff's contract is paid by insurance, and Green is a decent prospect.</td></tr></tbody></table>
Minnesota is not going to trade for Szczerbiak, so perhaps the Celtics can trade him to Utah in exchange for depth.

Post 16,000.


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## Causeway

Congrats on 16,000 - now get a life!


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## DaBosox

Premier said:


> Post 16,000.


Grats. At 2/3 of my age you've officially forgotten more basketball than I'll ever know.

Getting Pierce and KG is a great goal, but we're going to need other players on the court. This game isn't just a 5 on 2. I think we can pass by at the 1 with Rondo or some point guard not named Guns or Delonte, a pick in the early first round, and a healthy tony allen. We've given enough scrubs time in the past three years to compose a bench.

I'm for this deal if only 2/3 of the following leave: the 5, AJ, or Green. Salaries can be fudged with the proper incentives. I'd have a strong preference to losing the 5 and Green, since AJ is developed enough and hopefully with some expiring deals we can keep him around.

Not to mention his stats go down on an absolutely loaded team with KG and Pierce.

Edit: I need to learn english.


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## Premier

I think Boston's greatest advantage in a possible KG deal is the ability to trade an all-star talent like Al Jefferson. Green's trade value cannot be much more than the second-round pick that Denver traded for J.R. Smith. The fifth selection is nice, but Horford and Wright may never be better than Jefferson and even though Al's timing for his breakout is questionable, he is a proven player. I think negotiations begin with Ratliff, Jefferson, and Green. Salary then becomes an issue and Boston will need to find a third team [Utah] to deal Szczerbiak to in exchange for depth.


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## vandyke

This isn't working in Trade Checker for me, can someone explain to me how this trade would work? I can't make it work with Theo or Wally's salary. I think Al, Gerald, Theo, Sebastian and # 5 is way too much to give up, I would swap #5 for #7 and give them back their owed number 1, if you can show me how this works in trade checker I am all for it, take Jeff Green at 7 and put a lineup of Delonte, Pierce, Green, Garnett, and Perk on the floor next year.


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## hollywood476

XMATTHEWX said:


> You guys would want Wally & KG together. Wally would feel like playing again!



I'm from Minnesota and I have to tell you, Wally and KG didn't get along so I don't know what your talking about saying that Wally would feel like playing again.


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## Premier

Don't use trade checkers. They do not account for Garnett's trade kicker. Garnett's '07-'08 salary is likely 25.375M. Using the traded player exception since both teams are over the salary cap limit, the Celtics would need to trade 80% of that figure minus $100,000, which equals 20.2M. Subtract Ratliff's 11.667M salary, Telfair's 2.562M salary, Jefferson's 2.481M salary, and Green's 1.441M salary from 20.2M and you get about 2.049M, meaning the Celtics need to trade at least 2.049M more salary. This most likely means Tony Allen and Allan Ray, players that the Timberwolves can waive. However, this is a six for one deal [I'm not including the fifth selection, because I think it's too much to give up] and the deal would leave the Celtics under the minimum roster limit of twelve players and without any depth, which means the Celtics will have to find a way to either trade Szczerbiak to Minnesota instead of Telfair, Allen, or Ray, or they would have to include a third team. Minnesota's not going to trade for Scalabrine, in my opinion, since he is owed 9.622M over the next three years.


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## E.H. Munro

Premier said:


> Minnesota is not going to trade for Szczerbiak, so perhaps the Celtics can trade him to Utah in exchange for depth.


Perhaps fold it in, with Szczerbiak & West going for AK-47 & #25 and then Kirilenko, Ratliff, Green, and Jefferson going for Garnett + salary dump. I don't think Minnesota is going to trade Garnett while keeping Jaric & Blount. Even McHale isn't that stupid, is he?


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## whiterhino

I think Marion, Pierce and Jefferson is a great 3some and I think I like it better than KG/Pierce because it's 3 great players instead of 2. That said I would take KG too bc this is what we need I just like the other deal better. KG will kill our cap and we won't be able to afford a 3rd guy if Rondo can't be it.......and we give up a lot. Al could be a very big star and on top of that the 5, Green, Theo's cap space etc...its a lot but hey at this point I'll do anything to win


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## Premier

Marion is an above-average player in Boston since he cannot create for himself, he cannot hit contested perimeter shots, and he cannot play at a star level in a slow, half-court offense. Also, his contract absolutely kills the Celtics' [lack of] cap management for the next three seasons.


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## vandyke

So basically this deal would have a very slim chance of getting done.


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## whiterhino

Premier said:


> Marion is an above-average player in Boston since he cannot create for himself, he cannot hit contested perimeter shots, and he cannot play at a star level in a slow, half-court offense. Also, his contract absolutely kills the Celtics' [lack of] cap management for the next three seasons.


You are way underating Marion, he is more of why the Suns are so good than people give him credit for. Also when the heck did the Celts start playing slow half court offence we are supposed to be modeling ourselves after the Suns offense (now I realize it didn't happen last year but we also lost a gazzillion games to injury). His contract I agree with but at least with his we have 3 stars with KG we have the same issue and 2 stars. Either way screwed monetarily but that is ok by me if it means we win.


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## Premier

You're under the false impression that Pierce and Jefferson can run up and down the floor for 85 possessions per game. It's rather simple. When your two best players play best in a half-court offense, you play a half-court offense.

In addition, Pierce, Garnett, and the remaining team [note this trade is only possible if the Celtics trade Szczerbiak and receive a poor contract from Minnesota, likely Jaric, but hopefully Blount, in my opinion] combine for about 64M in salary per year for the next three seasons. Pierce, Jefferson, Marion, and Szczerbiak will combine for about 55M alone. A Garnett trade helps the Celtics' cap management, in my opinion, and Garnett is also much more marketable than Marion or Jefferson.

Also, Pierce, Garnett, Horford > Pierce, Jefferson, Marion, in my opinion. Lastly, according to D'Antoni, the Suns are not dealing Marion for a high first-round selection.


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## whiterhino

Premier said:


> You're under the false impression that Pierce and Jefferson can run up and down the floor for 85 possessions per game. It's rather simple. When your two best players play best in a half-court offense, you play a half-court offense.
> 
> In addition, Pierce, Garnett, and the remaining team [note this trade is only possible if the Celtics trade Szczerbiak and receive a poor contract from Minnesota, likely Jaric, but hopefully Blount, in my opinion] combine for about 64M in salary per year for the next three seasons. Pierce, Jefferson, Marion, and Szczerbiak will combine for about 55M alone. A Garnett trade helps the Celtics' cap management, in my opinion, and Garnett is also much more marketable than Marion or Jefferson.
> 
> Also, Pierce, Garnett, Horford > Pierce, Jefferson, Marion, in my opinion. Lastly, according to D'Antoni, the Suns are not dealing Marion for a high first-round selection.



We would not have Horford because the #5 pick goes to Minny in this deal. Also I beleive Al can run and I know Paul can run he just doesn't but I think if everyone else does he will. I would love to unload Wally's contract though, as much as I do like him and think he's a quality guy that got a bad rap I think his injuries at this point are too much to overcome and his contract always sucked.


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## Premier

I've already stated that I doubt the Celtics trade the fifth selection and Al Jefferson in a Garnett deal. I don't like to base trade scenarios on the various speculations of Chad Ford. Jefferson and Pierce may be able to run, but they are traditional half-court players and play best in traditional half-court offensive sets. Try again


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## E.H. Munro

whiterhino said:


> We would not have Horford because the #5 pick goes to Minny in this deal. Also I beleive Al can run and I know Paul can run he just doesn't but I think if everyone else does he will. I would love to unload Wally's contract though, as much as I do like him and think he's a quality guy that got a bad rap I think his injuries at this point are too much to overcome and his contract always sucked.


In a fast break offense you take away the best part of Jefferson's game. Further, while Jefferson _can_ wear out opponents on the blocks (presuming he's motivated) he isn't going to wear them out running. Also, Jefferson, Marion and Pierce is a front line that's going to get killed nightly on the defensive end (those 6'9"/6'7"/6'6" lines just don't terrorise people now the way they did in the old BAA). Garnett masks Jefferson's defensive shortcomings, and he's seriously be the best postfeeder this team has had in a generation. If Boston finds a way to land Horford (or, alternatively, hold onto Jefferson) with the pick, the team would be an EC contender next year, and a legit title contender after that.

Atlanta's said to be considering a trade down, so if you work a three-way deal with the Hawks, with Rondo & #7 going to Atlanta, #3 & #5 to Minnesota (along with Green and salary filler) then Boston could well hold onto Jefferson (yes, they'd need to sign a vet for the 1, and probably buy a late first to take a flyer on someone like Pruitt, but having Jefferson to keep a defender on the blocks would go a long way to making the Pierce/Garnett tandem a viable title contender).


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## DaBosox

Just to build on how ******* that team would be with Pierce, AJ, Garnett: the mismatches. With Jefferson and garnett on the floor at the same time, one of them will be open in the post. I know Garnett can effectively play 3 positions, so we could be looking at a PG/Pierce/Garnett/AJ/Perk lineup that would always find a height mismatch somewhere on the floor. I'm pretty sure the offensive rebounds against the C's would drop to about 4 a game with that tall athletic lineup.

I agree with Prem too that there's no way we deal AJ and the 5 together for one player. Remember that Garnett's value is decreasing due to rumors while AJ's and the 5 are gaining. As draft day gets closer there will be more buzz, which only helps Danny. Please god don't let him **** this up.


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan

any trade for garnett that didnt include pierce and Al and i would kiss danny ainges feet on the center court logo at the garden...


does anyone think that since mchale and ainge are buddies we would have a slight advantage and not have to give up as much as is rumored??


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## Five5even

Pierce, #5, Gomes for Garnett, filler

this might work.

Edit aqua, please don't come in here to bait.


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## pokpok

#1AntoineWalkerFan said:


> any trade for garnett that didnt include pierce and Al and i would kiss danny ainges feet on the center court logo at the garden...
> 
> 
> does anyone think that since mchale and ainge are buddies we would have a slight advantage and not have to give up as much as is rumored??


oooohhh i never thought about that:biggrin:


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan

Five5even said:


> Pierce, #5, Gomes for Garnett, filler
> 
> this might work.
> 
> Edit aqua, quote edit



buddy...the whole point of getting KG is to put him with pierce...not replace pierce with him that would be dumb and make no sense...and when we do have KG and pierce we will make it much farther than roy and oden in the playoffs


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## Premier

Oden, Aldridge, _____, Roy, and Jack are going to dominate the NBA in five years. That's a potential dynasty.


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan

i dare portland to be able to sign every one of those guys after their rookie contracts...if they all live up to expectations portland will be able to afford one maybe 2...by the time they are good enough to dominate they will be spread all over the nba


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## Premier

Paul Allen is rich. Filthy rich.


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## Five5even

#1AntoineWalkerFan said:


> buddy...the whole point of getting KG is to put him with pierce...not replace pierce with him that would be dumb and make no sense...and when we do have KG and pierce we will make it much farther than roy and oden in the playoffs


You obviously dont realize that you cant trade for KG without trading some quality talent. Pierce is hardly the young prospect he once was. Both KG and Pierce are similar in age which means they have bloated contracts.

I dont know how on earth you could trade for Garnett and still have AJ and Pierce in the same lineup. Even then there arent enough basketballs to go around.

The only way you will get KG is by trading quality for quality WITH matching salaries.

Pierce is the only dude on the C's that comes near KG in that respect.

KG, filler for Pierce, #5, filler is possible but having Pierce, KG, AJ on the same team creates CAP issues in the trade scenarios and in the front office.


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## E.H. Munro

Five5even said:


> You obviously dont realize that you cant trade for KG without trading some quality talent. Pierce is hardly the young prospect he once was. Both KG and Pierce are similar in age which means they have bloated contracts.
> 
> I dont know how on earth you could trade for Garnett and still have AJ and Pierce in the same lineup. Even then there arent enough basketballs to go around.
> 
> The only way you will get KG is by trading quality for quality WITH matching salaries.
> 
> Pierce is the only dude on the C's that comes near KG in that respect.
> 
> KG, filler for Pierce, #5, filler is possible but having Pierce, KG, AJ on the same team creates CAP issues in the trade scenarios and in the front office.


Look, no matter how many times you ask, Minnesota isn't going to give you Garnett for Z-Bo and Death Miles. So quit sniping at other team's fans. As for the Celtics, the optimal scenario is Pierce/Garnett/Jefferson as their troika. If the owners are really worried about the salaries, then Boston can ship off Jefferson & Green as the talent rather than #5 and Green and then simply work out a deal with Atlanta to move up to #3 to land Horford to handle the low post offensive chores.


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan

Five5even said:


> You obviously dont realize that you cant trade for KG without trading some quality talent. Pierce is hardly the young prospect he once was. Both KG and Pierce are similar in age which means they have bloated contracts.
> 
> I dont know how on earth you could trade for Garnett and still have AJ and Pierce in the same lineup. Even then there arent enough basketballs to go around.
> 
> The only way you will get KG is by trading quality for quality WITH matching salaries.
> 
> Pierce is the only dude on the C's that comes near KG in that respect.
> 
> KG, filler for Pierce, #5, filler is possible but having Pierce, KG, AJ on the same team creates CAP issues in the trade scenarios and in the front office.



you obviously dont realize that there is NO POINT in trading a 30 yr old superstar and a number 5 overall pick for a 30 year old superstar and filler...how does that make the celtics any better than they are now?...theo, green, telfair, Al and/or the number 5 or something of that sort is the ONLY possible deal that would happen, its not rocket science


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## Five5even

#1AntoineWalkerFan said:


> you obviously dont realize that there is NO POINT in trading a 30 yr old superstar and a number 5 overall pick for a 30 year old superstar and filler...how does that make the celtics any better than they are now?...theo, green, telfair, Al and/or the number 5 or something of that sort is the ONLY possible deal that would happen, its not rocket science


My point is that Minny wont trade for what the C's are willing to offer, unless it includes Pierce or AJ. Players like theo and telfair are useless (there's a reason we traded him away).

Really, it works out to Garnett for Green/AJ

and Minny can get better than that UNLESS you also include the #5 with that trade, then it becomes a contender.

But you lose that trio of Pierce, KG, AJ that everyone here is sooo psyched about.




ehmunro said:


> Look, no matter how many times you ask, Minnesota isn't going to give you Garnett for Z-Bo and Death Miles. So quit sniping at other team's fans.


KG is not wanted anywhere in the Northwest, trust me.


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## Amareca

Premier said:


> Also, Pierce, Garnett, Horford > Pierce, Jefferson, Marion, in my opinion. Lastly, according to D'Antoni, the Suns are not dealing Marion for a high first-round selection.


Couple things.

Of course Phoenix isn't going to trade Marion for Ratliff and #5. They want to win NOW not rebuild. But would they trade Marion if they got KG and the pick and rebuilding parts would go to Minnesota who needs to rebuild? Probably.

Minnesota won't get Jefferson AND #5 from Boston in my opinion and they won't get Amare from Phoenix.

Also I think its questionable wether Garnett would 1) sign an extension with Boston, 2) waive his trade kicker that increases the payroll by slightly over 3M$ and pays him like 17M$ bonus that the team that trades for him has to pay him.

And like you already pointed out, salary wise Boston would have to include Ratliff and Wally with Jefferson to match KG. If you don't include Wally you end up having to trade 5 or 6 players to match KGs salary.

I just can't imagine Danny Ainge who loves young players, trading away basically the entire young core he acquired (Jefferson,#5, Green/West/Gomes) plus the big expiring contract and get in return a 31 year old KG who would likely make Boston better for the present but not really more than mediocre still.

Would Ainge rather have Garnett, Pierce, scrubs and Al Jefferson exploding in Minnesota or Pierce, Marion, Jefferson and all of the rest of the core except 1 of Gomes, West and Green? I think he would rather keep Jefferson and have Marion who Ainge loves and was responsible for picking. That should make the Celtics a playoff team as well most likely but they keep their young core specifically Jefferson.


----------



## bmac

Agree with everything Amareca just posted.

Plus you'd like to think that after everything KG has done for the Wolves over the years McHale would have the decency to trade him to a contender and not a rebuilding team like the Celtics.


----------



## E.H. Munro

Five5even said:


> My point is that Minny wont trade for what the C's are willing to offer, unless it includes Pierce or AJ. Players like theo and telfair are useless (there's a reason we traded him away).
> 
> Really, it works out to Garnett for Green/AJ


And the nine million in cash that the T'wolves would collect on Ratliff's insurance policy and the long term contract that they'd be unloading (Jaric/Blount). Believe it or not, for some teams economics plays a factor in the personnel decisions. For Minnesota they might lose Garnett, but they clear up their long-term payroll, get a couple of highly marketable young players, get back one of their missing first round picks, and then go into full rebuilding mode. Kind of a necessity given the way the division just re-aligned. D¡ckering around the margins won't help them now.



Five5even said:


> and Minny can get better than that UNLESS you also include the #5 with that trade, then it becomes a contender.


Take a look around at the teams with sufficient salary to trade, and then get back to me. LA wasn't willing to give up their only good young player (Bynum). New York has nothing to offer Minnesota that's an upgrade on either Green/#5/pick return or AJ/Green/pick return. And they don't have a nine million dollar insurance payout to trade either. Chicago can't trade for him without including Wallace, and what the hell does a rebuilding team want with a grossly overpaid roleplayer? Aside from Boston, we always trade for those guys, presuming they fail their physicals. Who else do you see out there? Shawn Marion does zilch for a rebuilding team, and leaves Minnesota trying to trade a lesser player for young talent/picks. Due to that salary there just aren't a lot of landing spots for Garnett. The last scenario like this was the Shaq trade. How much did Miami give up then? Hell, the Lakers couldn't even get a first round pick in the 2004 draft, they had to settle for one from the first post-Shaq season (which was pretty ****ing worthless). Guys on over-max extensions don't get dealt for equivalent talent. That's the reality.


----------



## E.H. Munro

Amareca said:


> I just can't imagine Danny Ainge who loves young players, trading away basically the entire young core he acquired (Jefferson,#5, Green/West/Gomes) plus the big expiring contract and get in return a 31 year old KG who would likely make Boston better for the present but not really more than mediocre still.


Pierce and Garnett would be the best duo in the East. They'd be more than mediocre.



Amareca said:


> Would Ainge rather have Garnett, Pierce, scrubs and Al Jefferson exploding in Minnesota or Pierce, Marion, Jefferson and all of the rest of the core except 1 of Gomes, West and Green? I think he would rather keep Jefferson and have Marion who Ainge loves and was responsible for picking. That should make the Celtics a playoff team as well most likely but they keep their young core specifically Jefferson.


A 6'9"/6'7"/6'6" front line is going to get murdered, defensively, every night of the week. And murdered without providing a high-powered offense to compensate. The only good to come out of a Shawn Marion trade would be Matrix leaving Boston in disgust and Danny Ainge returning to work for TNT.


----------



## Amareca

There is no player in the East that Shawn Marion can't defend except Shaq and Dwight.


----------



## Five5even

ehmunro said:


> Guys on over-max extensions don't get dealt for equivalent talent


Garnett with an over-max extension won't be traded, unless there is a star on the other end. Minny might have the worst team in the league for the next few years with that trade.

Besides, Garnett would rather go to a team that will be guaranteed to contend for the next few years. he gets that with Chicago, Orlando and Los Angeles, not so much with Boston. Garnett would opt out after one year anyway.

TBH, i dont think Garnett will go anywhere unless there is a garnett, filler for Kobe trade. Which is not likely.


----------



## Five5even

ehmunro said:


> The last scenario like this was the Shaq trade. How much did Miami give up then? Hell, the Lakers couldn't even get a first round pick in the 2004 draft, they had to settle for one from the first post-Shaq season (which was pretty ****ing worthless). Guys on over-max extensions don't get dealt for equivalent talent. That's the reality.


You didn't just compare Shaquille O'neal's trade scenario to Kevin Garnett...oh wait, yes you did. Thats a shame, because there is hardly a similarity.


----------



## E.H. Munro

Five5even said:


> Garnett with an over-max extension won't be traded, unless there is a star on the other end. Minny might have the worst team in the league for the next few years with that trade.


Minnesota will have the worst team in the league regardless. If they wait till next summer they'll get next to nothing for Garnett period. Because he can simply walk for a max deal someplace else. Any trade they make at that point will be for scraps. They have a very narrow within which to trade him and get anything.



Five5even said:


> Besides, Garnett would rather go to a team that will be guaranteed to contend for the next few years. he gets that with Chicago, Orlando and Los Angeles, not so much with Boston. Garnett would opt out after one year anyway.


Chicago can't trade for him, they don't have the salary without Minnesoata taking back Ben Wallace's 3/45 and paying P.J. Brown and his giant fork (as opposed to Szczerbiak's 2/25 and Theo's 1/2.5). LA won't give up Bynum, are you seriously telling us that Jordan Farmar and a low first is better than Jefferson? Orlando has only Howard or Milicic to trade. They aren't dealing the former and there's no galaxy where Milicic is better than Jefferson. And at the end of the day, Garnett & Pierce are the best duo in the East, in Boston he has a realistic shot at the finals. In the West? Not so much. None, really.



Five5even said:


> i dont think Garnett will go anywhere unless there is a garnett, filler for Kobe trade. Which is not likely.


If he doesn't get traded this summer, he's leaving next summer. That's the reality.



Five5even said:


> You didn't just compare Shaquille O'neal's trade scenario to Kevin Garnett...oh wait, yes you did. Thats a shame, because there is hardly a similarity.


How many players making $20+ million per year have been traded in the NBA again? I'm sorry, I was actually under the impression that guys making that sort of money being traded were a rarity. I had no idea it was so common.


----------



## Premier

Amareca said:


> Of course Phoenix isn't going to trade Marion for Ratliff and #5. They want to win NOW not rebuild. But would they trade Marion if they got KG and the pick and rebuilding parts would go to Minnesota who needs to rebuild? Probably.


I agree, though I doubt they get Garnett, so this point has no relevance.



> Minnesota won't get Jefferson AND #5 from Boston in my opinion and they won't get Amare from Phoenix.


I agree.



> Also I think its questionable wether Garnett would 1) sign an extension with Boston, 2) waive his trade kicker that increases the payroll by slightly over 3M$ and pays him like 17M$ bonus that the team that trades for him has to pay him.


It is questionable, but the Celtics would obviously have to talk to Garnett and his representation before making any sort of deal trading for him. Ideally, the Celtics can acquire Garnett and add him to Pierce and Horford. That is the basis of a playoff team and a possible contending team if the supporting cast is worked out. Garnett may leave, but the Celtics wouldn't trade for him if he didn't want to go there.



> And like you already pointed out, salary wise Boston would have to include Ratliff and Wally with Jefferson to match KG. If you don't include Wally you end up having to trade 5 or 6 players to match KGs salary.


The deal needs a third team to take on Wally.



> I just can't imagine Danny Ainge who loves young players, trading away basically the entire young core he acquired (Jefferson,#5, Green/West/Gomes) plus the big expiring contract and get in return a 31 year old KG who would likely make Boston better for the present but not really more than mediocre still.


Ainge wants to keep his job.



> Would Ainge rather have Garnett, Pierce, scrubs and Al Jefferson exploding in Minnesota or Pierce, Marion, Jefferson and all of the rest of the core except 1 of Gomes, West and Green? I think he would rather keep Jefferson and have Marion who Ainge loves and was responsible for picking. That should make the Celtics a playoff team as well most likely but they keep their young core specifically Jefferson.


I don't agree with this. The specifics of the deal, if it is being discussed which is unlikely, is not available. I doubt Ainge trades six players for Garnett and I do think that the deal requires a third team to trade Szczerbiak, which means Boston would only trade four players [Jefferson, Ratliff, Szczerbiak, and Green] and possibly acquire a bad contract or two [ehmunro suggested Blount and Jaric]. I think the Celtics wouldn't do this deal if they didn't understand that the motive was to win within three seasons.


----------



## Five5even

ehmunro said:


> Minnesota will have the worst team in the league regardless. If they wait till next summer they'll get next to nothing for Garnett period. Because he can simply walk for a max deal someplace else. Any trade they make at that point will be for scraps. They have a very narrow within which to trade him and get anything.
> 
> 
> 
> Chicago can't trade for him, they don't have the salary without Minnesoata taking back Ben Wallace's 3/45 and paying P.J. Brown and his giant fork (as opposed to Szczerbiak's 2/25 and Theo's 1/2.5). LA won't give up Bynum, are you seriously telling us that Jordan Farmar and a low first is better than Jefferson? Orlando has only Howard or Milicic to trade. They aren't dealing the former and there's no galaxy where Milicic is better than Jefferson. And at the end of the day, Garnett & Pierce are the best duo in the East, in Boston he has a realistic shot at the finals. In the West? Not so much. None, really.
> 
> 
> 
> If he doesn't get traded this summer, he's leaving next summer. That's the reality.
> 
> 
> 
> How many players making $20+ million per year have been traded in the NBA again? I'm sorry, I was actually under the impression that guys making that sort of money being traded were a rarity. I had no idea it was so common.


I still dont see how taking on 5 contracts in exchange for minny's garnett is a positive for Minnesota. Having that many players locked in is detrimental to a teams progress, especially if they are trying to rebuild. Not to mention Boston is including useless people like Telfair and Ratliff.

With that said, Boston must trade AJ and probably the #5 with filler to even get a sniff at garnett, otherwise Minny will be content to let Garnett walk after next year and really clean house. Or even wait until the trade deadline and see what you can get.

Boston IMHO has no chance to land AJ, Garnett and Pierce on the same team. Minny has no need to take on 5 contracts to Garnetts one.


----------



## Premier

Minnesota is not going to let Garnett walk. They are going to get as much talent they can for him and rid themselves of poor contracts in the process.


----------



## E.H. Munro

Five5even said:


> I still dont see how taking on 5 contracts in exchange for minny's garnett is a positive for Minnesota. Having that many players locked in is detrimental to a teams progress, especially if they are trying to rebuild. Not to mention Boston is including useless people like Telfair and Ratliff.
> 
> With that said, Boston must trade AJ and probably the #5 with filler to even get a sniff at garnett, otherwise Minny will be content to let Garnett walk after next year and really clean house. Or even wait until the trade deadline and see what you can get.
> 
> Boston IMHO has no chance to land AJ, Garnett and Pierce on the same team. Minny has no need to take on 5 contracts to Garnetts one.


In other words, the basis for your argument is "McHale is too stupid to trade Garnett for a 19/10 PF and would rather deal him for spare parts"? There is no universe where Minnesota is better off getting nothing for Garnett rather than Jefferson, Green, and the first round pick they traded to Boston. In case you haven't noticed, McHale's replacement is on the job already, and Fred Hoiberg would probably prefer to succeed than start over with a roster chock full of long term contracts to mediocrities (like Blount & Jaric) and little to no young talent. That makes his job infinitely harder. Somehow I suspect that he'd rather get back the first, get someone like Jefferson, and another young player, and lose Jaric or Blount in the process (note that they just gave away Mike James to get out from under the deal). Waiting until the trade deadline solves nothing because Garnett still counts for $25.5 in trade and add in Jaric or Blount and you're at $32 million. The teams able to come up with $26 million then are going to be the same teams that can do it now. And possibly fewer if Boston deals Ratliff in the interim. So the odds are that by waiting they'll get _less_ because there will be fewer consumers (bidding the price down). And then to get anything they just might have to eat Ben Wallace and Andres Nocioni (re-signed to a long term deal) and not get any cap relief in a Garnett deal.

And Ratliff, whose contract will be mostly covered by insurance (since there isn't a prayer that he can pass a physical), isn't "useless". He represents a nine million dollar payroll reduction. Basketball economics was the reason you guys ended with Brandon Roy. Or have you forgot that already?


----------



## #1AntoineWalkerFan

five5...you fail to realize that this is not nba live...trades dont only work if theres equal talent involved...as eh said there is alot of economics and other reasons why trades are made...and if you really think minny would rather let KG walk next year than get anything for him at all then all of your points are rendered invalid because thats ridiculous...and Antoine would tell you to shhhhhhhhhh


----------



## whiterhino

Five5even said:


> I still dont see how taking on 5 contracts in exchange for minny's garnett is a positive for Minnesota. Having that many players locked in is detrimental to a teams progress, especially if they are trying to rebuild. Not to mention Boston is including useless people like Telfair and Ratliff.
> 
> With that said, Boston must trade AJ and probably the #5 with filler to even get a sniff at garnett, otherwise Minny will be content to let Garnett walk after next year and really clean house. Or even wait until the trade deadline and see what you can get.
> 
> Boston IMHO has no chance to land AJ, Garnett and Pierce on the same team. Minny has no need to take on 5 contracts to Garnetts one.


5 Contracts for 1 WHAT r u talking about? Theo's contract is gonna be mostly paid by insurance, he can't play, everyone wants that contract. Sebastien is on the last year of his rookie contract and would likely be waived. Gerald is on a rookie contract. Al is a future all-star worth paying for. # 5 pick or Delonte or whoever the 5th player in this deal ends up being is also a rookie deal. They are dumping salary not picking it up doesn't matter if it's 5 contracts....they r not locked in long term on bad deals with those guys. 
As the rumor mill goes though I honestly think by the end of the month either KG or Marion will be a Celtic. Paul will still be a Celtic. Al will most likely be gone. If we are talking KG I disagree and think the #5 will also be gone if we are talking Matrix I think we will keep it. Either way and as much as I adore Al Jefferson I will be happy because I think we will win again FINALLY :worthy:


----------



## Premier

whiterhino, we're not trading Jefferson for Marion and Ainge shouldn't trade the fifth selection for Marion. In addition, Minnesota does not have the luxury of demanding both Jefferson and the fifth selection. If Ainge refuses, they have no one to trade GArnett to and still get back fair value. Garnett walks if Minnesota doesn't trade him.


----------



## bmac

Premier said:


> Minnesota is not going to let Garnett walk. They are going to get as much talent they can for him and rid themselves of poor contracts in the process.


With how much Garnett makes, it will be difficult to find another team that can match his salary in any trade, let alone then be able to absorb some of their other bad contracts as well.


----------



## Causeway

We've spent a lot of time collecting chips, I really hope we don't **** this up.


----------



## #1AntoineWalkerFan

Causeway said:


> We've spent a lot of time collecting chips, I really hope we don't **** this up.



its ALL on your buddy now


----------



## Premier

bmac said:


> With how much Garnett makes, it will be difficult to find another team that can match his salary in any trade, let alone then be able to absorb some of their other bad contracts as well.


Enter the Boston Celtics.


----------



## E.H. Munro

Well, Minnesota message boards are alight with "inside sources" that it's a done deal. They seem to think that it's going to be Al, #5, Minnesota's future first, Theo & Wally for Garnett and either Hudson or Hassell (depending on which you read). For obvious reasons I'd prefer Hassell. They'd need to use the MLE on an upgrade at the 1 or the 5. And probably deal for some quality at the wing. They won't have enough to chase Mo Williams (unless Milwaukee would do a sign & trade for Mr. Moobs & Hassell). They might try Charlie Bell. They'd need a Mike James-type to play the one for spacing. They could also try to pry Josh Childress out of Atlanta (he's the perfect wing to play alongside Pierce). They might want to buy a late first to secure Sean Williams, because Perkins needs to be a backup if they're running at a title.


----------



## Avalanche

from one of the biggest garnett fans out there, and a wolves fan at that.

IF he leaves i hope he goes to you guys


----------



## LamarButler

I really think the Garnett deal would be great for both teams. Boston would become one of the top teams in league and Minnesota would end the disastrous period of having Garnett miss the playoffs year in and year out. They would be set up really nice for the future. They'd have the 5th and 7th pick plus Al Jefferson. I think they could draft Horford and Brewer with those picks.

So maybe

PG- Randy Foye
SG- Rashad McCants
SF- Corey Brewer
PF- Al Horford
C- Al Jefferson


----------



## Avalanche

i think people are under-rating just how well pierce and KG could do in the east, and then if they made the finals although the opposition would alomost certainly be the deeper team from 1-12, Pierce and Garnett making the finals, and their performances once there would be scary IMO


----------



## Jenness

ehmunro said:


> They could also try to pry Josh Childress out of Atlanta (he's the perfect wing to play alongside Pierce).


I like Childress too. I like how he does a little of everything and plays solid defense but I especially like how he can go long periods without touching the ball and still shoot efficiently, a rarity in the league. He allows the main guys to get their touches and rhythm and then makes shots when called upon. That's how he played at Stanford. Even though he was the main guy there, he played a role player-style game.

I would hope something like Green/no.32 pick or Green/West would be enough.


----------



## Causeway

Al, #5, Minnesota's future first, Theo & Wally...I know it's Garnett - but that's giving up a lot.


----------



## Causeway

#1AntoineWalkerFan said:


> its ALL on your buddy now


It is. Like I have said all along, Ainge has made moves to get picks, youth, and assets. This summer is where all the groundwork comes into play. Don't **** it up!


----------



## whiterhino

Premier said:


> whiterhino, we're not trading Jefferson for Marion and Ainge shouldn't trade the fifth selection for Marion. In addition, Minnesota does not have the luxury of demanding both Jefferson and the fifth selection. If Ainge refuses, they have no one to trade GArnett to and still get back fair value. Garnett walks if Minnesota doesn't trade him.


It is naive to think that you are going to get a top 5 player in the league for just Al, they WILL get the #5 also in this deal and I do beleive that it's going down. Honestly I could care less about the #5 pick it's nothing special there is no GREAT player available there. As for the Marion comment I would take Marion EVERY day over the #5 pick, he's an NBA All-Star which is what you hope the #5 pick might turn into 5 years from now. I'm tired of rookies and young guys. I want to win now. The WHOLE point of collecting young talent was to make a trade for a superstar. Well Kevin Garnett is a superstar. I loathe losing Jefferson but he's the only player in the mix I even mind losing so for Garnett pull the trigger Danny. It is WELL PAST time to WIN. The Celtics will be good again finally, maybe only for a few years but i'll take it at this point. Let's go Celtics...............
Now we just need to convince Garnett that Boston would be a good home for him :yay:


----------



## Causeway

By the way, this trade is not even an option without Ratliff and the Portland trade last season. So if it goes down, instead of calling it the Telfair trade, as some people like to do, it will become the Garnett trade!


----------



## gi0rdun

I like this trade, but doesn't Garnett need a ring?


----------



## whiterhino

giordun said:


> I like this trade, but doesn't Garnett need a ring?


He does but no one in title contention is in a position to get him right now. We have to convince him we can be with him. Miami was not anywhere near title contention without Shaq. In the East one big time player can make that much of a difference....we just have to convice KG of that.


----------



## #1AntoineWalkerFan

Causeway said:


> Al, #5, Minnesota's future first, Theo & Wally...I know it's Garnett - but that's giving up a lot.



not so much if you break it down causeway...minnys future first will never amount to anything because of the details on how we'd never really get it...theo is just a contract...we get rid of wally!!!! thats amazing...the trade ends up being Al and the number 5 for KG...and we still hang on to gerald? thats cool with me...the other alternative would be to send Al and gerald and keep the 5...id be happy with that too


----------



## LamarButler

It was just reported by the Boston Herald that the Celtics are coming closer to a deal.


----------



## Dirty Dirk41

BostonHerald.com




> The process still is far from complete, but a league source indicated last night the Celtics [team stats] were moving closer to a deal for Minnesota star Kevin Garnett.
> “There’s a good chance nothing happens,” the source cautioned, “but the talks seem to be ongoing. Neither side seems willing to drop this.”
> It was further indicated that if such a deal goes down, it would indeed involve both Al Jefferson [stats] and the Celtics’ No. 5 overall pick in next week’s draft.
> Celtics director of basketball operations Danny Ainge admitted earlier this week to the Herald that he had discussed a deal for Garnett with Timberwolves counterpart Kevin McHale. When reached last night, Ainge said he is not commenting on any trade rumors.
> 
> 
> Reacting to the Herald story yesterday in Minneapolis, McHale said any trade talk involving Garnett so far has been just that - talk.
> “Who knows what’s going to happen?” McHale said after the Wolves worked out college stars Jeff Green and Al Horford in preparation for next week’s draft. “But we’re not out there actively shopping Kevin Garnett around the NBA. I can tell you that much.”
> The Celtics are said to still be mulling over the pros and cons of the deal. A plus is the opportunity to take a giant step in an Eastern Conference race that would appear to be fairly wide open next season. On the downside, the Celtics would be trading away a player nine years Garnett’s junior in Jefferson, who is coming off a breakout season just three years out of high school.
> It is not yet known what other pieces would be involved in the deal to make it work financially, but one can assume Theo Ratliff [stats]’s expiring contract could be part of the mix.
> Garnett can opt out of his contract after next season, meaning the Timberwolves run the risk of losing him without compensation if they don’t trade him before then and he tires of not playing on a competitive team. That has ramped up speculation that he could be on the move.
> A key part of the transaction would be the Celts knowing Garnett wants to make the move.
> Garnett, who turned 31 on May 19, is an eight-time All-NBA selection and a 10-time All-Star. He averaged 22.4 points, 12.8 rebounds and 4.1 assists per game for Minnesota last season.
> Jefferson, a first-round pick by the C’s in 2004, averaged 16.0 points, 11.0 rebounds and 1.3 assists last season.
> In the past, McHale has completely dismissed questions of Garnett’s availability, including after last season when he said emphatically, “We’re not going to trade Kevin Garnett.” Now, McHale is qualifying those remarks.


Quotes added, aqua.


----------



## Premier

whiterhino said:


> It is naive to think that you are going to get a top 5 player in the league for just Al, they WILL get the #5 also in this deal and I do beleive that it's going down.


 Oh, sorry about that. I assumed that our general manager wasn't completely incompetent for a moment. Edit

Tell me, please. What other options does Minnesota have? Please do not say Phoenix. Shawn Marion does not sell tickets. Please do not say Chicago. Ben Wallace does not sell tickets. P.J. Brown does not want to play for the Timberwolves. Please do not say New York. The Knicks do not have talented young players. So, what should Minnesota do? Nobody can trade for Garnett. Should they keep him? Perhaps that's the right decision. Yes, they should keep him and win thirty-five more games before he opts out of his contract. Edit

The Celtics are in control of this negotiation. If Ainge is even semi-competent, he can deal Jefferson and Green for Garnett. The fifth selection is not necessary. Then again, it's not very smart to assume that Ainge is even semi-competent.



> Honestly I could care less about the #5 pick it's nothing special there is no GREAT player available there.


 You're rightEdit. Al Horford isn't a great player. However, he is a player that fits very well with Garnett. He defends. He rebounds. He scores down-low. Brandan Wright will be a great player, but we can't wait for him. Edit Yi Jianlian? Hah. Corey Brewer? Average. Joakim Noah? God no.



> As for the Marion comment I would take Marion EVERY day over the #5 pick, he's an NBA All-Star which is what you hope the #5 pick might turn into 5 years from now.


 He's an all-star in Phoenix. He's a very good role player in a slow half-court offense in which he has to create his own shot or rely on his shaky perimeter jumper. Plus, D'Antoni said that he's not trading Marion for the fifth selection.



> I'm tired of rookies and young guys. I want to win now. The WHOLE point of collecting young talent was to make a trade for a superstar.


 A truly brilliant plan, no? That's why we should pay fair market value for a superstar when nobody else is offering more than half of Garnett's value. Edit, sarcasm is only good in small doses Prem.


----------



## Ruff Draft

Boston has the best package, and Pho can't even come close. If you guys can keep Green you have to pull the trigger.

Rondo
Green
Pierce
KG
Perkins

West
Gomes
Allen

That's a decent squad, and can improve still! I really hope this goes through.


----------



## Ruff Draft

Maybe you guys could even make a swing for 'Toine? Miami wont want much.


----------



## Premier

whiterhino said:


> He does but no one in title contention is in a position to get him right now. We have to convince him we can be with him. Miami was not anywhere near title contention without Shaq. In the East one big time player can make that much of a difference....we just have to convice KG of that.


Miami made the playoffs before Shaq. Also, Shaq, in Miami, was never better than Wade. Not the case with Pierce and Garnett.


----------



## Premier

XMATTHEWX said:


> That's a decent squad, and can improve still! I really hope this goes through.


That's not the point. The goal is to make the Finals within two years. That squad doesn't make the Finals. The Celtics need to keep the fifth selection. Frankly, Minnesota cannot really demand it since they're already getting back top market value.


----------



## bmac

Premier said:


> That's not the point. The goal is to make the Finals within two years. That squad doesn't make the Finals. The Celtics need to keep the fifth selection. Frankly, Minnesota cannot really demand it since they're already getting back top market value.


If u guys do get KG, what do u think u give up to get him?

Just Al Jeff + Green + Theo?


----------



## Damian Necronamous

If it's Jefferson, Green, #5 and Ratliff for Garnett, that leaves Boston with...

PG: Delonte West...Rajon Rondo...Sebastian Telfair
SG: Paul Pierce...Tony Allen
SF: Ryan Gomes...Wally Szczerbiak
PF: Kevin Garnett...Leon Powe...Brian Scalabrine
C: Kendrick Perkins

Minnesota would have Randy Foye, Gerald Green, Ricky Davis, Al Jefferson, Craig Davis and the 5th and 7th picks in the draft. That's a solid foundation for the future.

I would imagine that the two sides are debating over Gerald Green. Minnesota probably wants him, while the Celtics would prefer to substitute other guys (Rondo, West, Allen, etc.) for him in the deal.


----------



## bmac

I personally think u would have to pony up both Al and the fifth pick for Garnett.

Which deal do Boston fans prefer: giving up Jefferson + #5 for Garnett, or #5 + Ratliff for Marion in the potential 3 team deal? In other words, KG or Al + Marion?


----------



## E.H. Munro

Damian Necronamous said:


> If it's Jefferson, Green, #5 and Ratliff for Garnett, that leaves Boston with...
> 
> PG: Delonte West...Rajon Rondo...Sebastian Telfair
> SG: Paul Pierce...Tony Allen
> SF: Ryan Gomes...Wally Szczerbiak
> PF: Kevin Garnett...Leon Powe...Brian Scalabrine
> C: Kendrick Perkins
> 
> Minnesota would have Randy Foye, Gerald Green, Ricky Davis, Al Jefferson, Craig Davis and the 5th and 7th picks in the draft. That's a solid foundation for the future.
> 
> I would imagine that the two sides are debating over Gerald Green. Minnesota probably wants him, while the Celtics would prefer to substitute other guys (Rondo, West, Allen, etc.) for him in the deal.


I bet what they're arguing over is Wally Szczerbiak. If the Celtics are stuck with him they may as well start calling around the NBA to lay the groundwork for a Garnett sign & trade next summer. The Minnesota players cheered aloud when they got news of the trade. They didn't even care that they were getting stuck with Blount, they just wanted Wally gone. There isn't room in the same clubhouse for Garnett & Szczerbiak (Szczerbiak's constant whispering to the press that everything was Kevin's fault during his days in lake country burned that bridge for good). So for the trade to make any sense at all for Boston Szczerbiak has to be on the first flight to Antarctica. If I had to guess, I'd say that Boston was probably willing to send Minnesota Jefferson and the two draft picks, but on the condition that Wally be used for ballast and that Boston didn't have to eat a bad contract (i.e. no Hudson/Hassell/Jaric/Blount and Boston keeps Ratliff).

Also that lineup isn't going anywhere. Perkins and Gomes aren't a whole lot faster than you are, and starting them neutralises the defensive upgrade at the 4. They'd need to add a 1 guard better than West or Rondo. Rondo's a terrible halfcourt player, West, at the 1, pounds the ball like he pounds himself watching Jenna Jameson videos. When he's on the floor with Pierce, P2 generally steals the ball from him and doesn't give it back unless he's kicking the ball out. West is a disaster when he's on the floor with the second unit, because everyone's afraid to steal the ball from him. They really need to see if they can swing him for a mid first to take a flyer on Sean Williams. Without Jefferson's extension to worry about, they should use that money on an MLE (someone like Mo Williams or Charlie Bell) and a sign & trade to add depth. They should also look at Josh Childress from Atlanta to fill in at the 2/3 opposite Pierce. Garnett & Pierce are a nice start, but they need to get upgrades on their kids if they have any hope of competing.


----------



## Causeway

KG to Boston Hits a Snag



> League sources have reported that the Boston Celtics are still in talks with the Minnesota Timberwolves to acquire Kevin Garnett, but a new name in the deal is causing a snag.
> 
> The deal to move Garnett to Boston would include Al Jefferson and the fifth pick, and now the Timberwolves want to ship out Marko Jaric and attain Gerald Green.
> 
> The Celtics are pushing back on Jaric, who has four years left on his $40 million contract. The big guard from Serbia averaged just over five points last season and has never averaged more than 10 points per game during his five-year career. The 21 year old Green, on the other hand, carries a low price tag and untapped potential.


----------



## Premier

Go for Gasol.


----------



## pokpok

al jefferson
5th pick
theo
for KG

pierce
green
wally
for kobe

Kobe and KG on the celtics and everyone is happy. LOL..this will never happen but something for u guys to talk about.


----------



## MAS RipCity

Al is going to be better than KG in 2 years, so why ship him AND #5 for an aging KG? I am not sure why people are talking about the main purpose being just MAKING it to the Finals, the goal is to win it..and no way in hell does that team beat a Western foe in the Finals.
Honestly, if I were GM of Boston...instead of trying to attain another star to keep my disgruntled one happy..I trade the disgruntled one. Boston just simply needs to rebuild. I would try to package Pierce to a team like Millwaukee for thier pick and fillers, or even to Minny for the #7 and cap relief...the Kings at 10 are an ideal spot too...and probably the best option would be #14 and Corey Maggette for Pierce.
For ****s and giggles lets say the basis of a deal was made for #14 and CM...here's what you would have.
PG- Mike Conley(#5)
SG- Corey Maggette
SF- Al Thornton/Julian Wright (#14,may have to trade up,but lets say he's there)
PF- Ryan Gomes
C- Al Jefferson
Bench:
Delonte West
Rajon Rando
Gerald Green
Kendrick Perkins
Wally World
really, not a bad team. CM replaces Pierce's scoring and would be an AllStar in the East. Some may not be high on conley, but I am. Big Al is a beast in the East, mixed in with Gomes' finesse and a SF of your choice with a solid bench and you have a playoff team who actually has a future.
Bottom line is,you can fiddle with any scenarios but I'd look to deal Pierce and build through one of the deepest drafts in history.


----------



## E.H. Munro

MAS RipCity said:


> Al is going to be better than KG in 2 years, so why ship him AND #5 for an aging KG? I am not sure why people are talking about the main purpose being just MAKING it to the Finals, the goal is to win it..and no way in hell does that team beat a Western foe in the Finals.
> Honestly, if I were GM of Boston...instead of trying to attain another star to keep my disgruntled one happy..I trade the disgruntled one. Boston just simply needs to rebuild. I would try to package Pierce to a team like Millwaukee for thier pick and fillers, or even to Minny for the #7 and cap relief...the Kings at 10 are an ideal spot too...and probably the best option would be #14 and Corey Maggette for Pierce.
> For ****s and giggles lets say the basis of a deal was made for #14 and CM...here's what you would have.
> PG- Mike Conley(#5)
> SG- Corey Maggette
> SF- Al Thornton/Julian Wright (#14,may have to trade up,but lets say he's there)
> PF- Ryan Gomes
> C- Al Jefferson
> Bench:
> Delonte West
> Rajon Rando
> Gerald Green
> Kendrick Perkins
> Wally World
> really, not a bad team. CM replaces Pierce's scoring and would be an AllStar in the East. Some may not be high on conley, but I am. Big Al is a beast in the East, mixed in with Gomes' finesse and a SF of your choice with a solid bench and you have a playoff team who actually has a future.
> Bottom line is,you can fiddle with any scenarios but I'd look to deal Pierce and build through one of the deepest drafts in history.


Because Boston has a narrow window to win. If they trade Pierce they're not going to be playing for a title for another 12-15 years. There just isn't point to pretending that they're going to be playing for the 2012 NBA title when they don't have the horses to get them there.


----------



## E.H. Munro

Premier said:


> Go for Gasol.


No need to do anything at the moment. I don't think Gasol does as much for them (unless they think that they can spin him into Garnett in a trade deadline deal). Come draft night that #5 pick goes away as McHale will have to settle for Ainge's choice rather than getting his own. McHale's only leverage is that he can dump McHale for Marion and low picks, and if he's going to do it then Boston should just shrug and talk to Atlanta, instead.


----------



## Amareca

Garnett says no to Boston.

No surprise
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2912075

From the Wolves to the Celtics, from McHale to Ainge. It a step down was possible for Garnett this might have been it.


----------



## Premier

Premier said:


> Go for Gasol.


...


----------



## bmac

#5, Green and Ratliff for Gasol maybe?

Don't think it'll happen but seems fair for both sides.


----------



## Causeway

Amareca said:


> Garnett says no to Boston.
> 
> No surprise
> http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2912075
> 
> From the Wolves to the Celtics, from McHale to Ainge. It a step down was possible for Garnett this might have been it.


Where was Garnett 8 pages ago!


----------



## number1pick

Dead.


----------



## pokpok

Amareca said:


> Garnett says no to Boston.
> 
> No surprise
> http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2912075
> 
> From the Wolves to the Celtics, from McHale to Ainge. It a step down was possible for Garnett this might have been it.


more like KG doesnt want to man up and be THE GUY for the team...


----------



## bmac

pokpok said:


> more like KG doesnt want to man up and be THE GUY for the team...


Terrible post. Garnett has basically been THE GUY ever since he was drafted.

He's sick of McHale continually failing to build a decent team around him, why would he want to go to a team run by Danny Ainge.


----------



## rainman

He just did you guys a favor, maybe he wants to go to a Phoenix or Dallas or whereever he thinks he can win right away but as a Boston fan i would say good riddance. Pursue someone else if you have to but stay away from the headcases, Jefferson and the 5th pick was too much to start with.


----------



## pokpok

bmac said:


> Terrible post. Garnett has basically been THE GUY ever since he was drafted.
> 
> He's sick of McHale continually failing to build a decent team around him, why would he want to go to a team run by Danny Ainge.


if KG came to the celtics...he would still be the main go to guy along with paul pierce..

in phoenix..where he wants to go to...he has steve nash and other role players where he doesnt have to carry the team.


----------



## bmac

U can't honestly be surprised that he'd prefer to play for a contender than with the team that finished with the 2nd worst record in the league.

U make it seem like he would be merely riding coattails if he was in fact traded to the Suns.


----------



## E.H. Munro

rainman said:


> He just did you guys a favor, maybe he wants to go to a Phoenix or Dallas or whereever he thinks he can win right away but as a Boston fan i would say good riddance. Pursue someone else if you have to but stay away from the headcases, Jefferson and the 5th pick was too much to start with.


He did us a favor? If by that you mean "Did his best to show Celtics fans that they should boycott the games until Ainge is back on TNT and the team sold to ownership that gives a damn and they hire competent management," then perhaps. But today's events essentially mean that the Celtics won't be playing for a title for a decade and probably longer.


----------



## Floods

u know what fuk KG if he doesn't want to be here then I don't want him. and Bmac i'm not so sure the Celtics would repeat last season's misery with Pierce and Garnett (and Troy Hudson, Tony Allen, Perk, and Rondo for support) together on the team. So I guess Garnett just wants to live in the clouds and dream about a Phoenix trade that's never going to happen, instead of teaming w/ Pierce and instantly becoming a contender in the East, the team would def. be good enough to WIN the east, and all you have to do is win ONE series against the west in the finals which isn't impossible. but he'd rather go play for the Suns (which won't happen at least by trade), or the Bulls (who btw don't have the 2nd star to put with KG so it's basically Minnesota all over again), or the Knicks (b/c everyone loves New york), or the Lakers (that team would have NOTHING outside of Kobe/KG with what they'd have to surrender). well that's his problem good luck KG you're missing out on an oppurtunity to not play for a ****ter team, good luck with your future endeavors dumb ****. **** you.


----------



## bmac

With how bad the East has been i agree that KG and Pierce would put u guys right in the mix.



David_Ortiz said:


> or the Lakers (that team would have NOTHING outside of Kobe/KG with what they'd have to surrender).


Cos the Celts would have a dynamite supporting cast if u guys did get KG wouldn't u.



David_Ortiz said:


> u know what fuk KG if he doesn't want to be here then I don't want him.


U sound like a 16 year old kid crying cos he isn't getting his way. Oh wait...


----------



## rainman

ehmunro said:


> He did us a favor? If by that you mean "Did his best to show Celtics fans that they should boycott the games until Ainge is back on TNT and the team sold to ownership that gives a damn and they hire competent management," then perhaps. But today's events essentially mean that the Celtics won't be playing for a title for a decade and probably longer.



I'll take my chances with Al Jefferson and the 5th pick, and stop taking the easy way out by blaming Ainge for everything, blame the player.


----------



## Aznboi812

I rather have marion, al, and pierce than garnett and pierce


----------



## #1AntoineWalkerFan

F U KG...you used to be one of my favorite players...now you can rot in minnesota you bum


----------



## E.H. Munro

rainman said:


> I'll take my chances with Al Jefferson and the 5th pick, and stop taking the easy way out by blaming Ainge for everything, blame the player.


Great, tell me when they're winning that title and how much you're wagering. I could use some entertainment. And, umm, in case you haven't noticed, the team's been a laughingstock since Danny "saved it". Back in 2004 Boston got rejected by the likes of Etan Thomas, Brian Skinner and Antonio McDyess. They have an image problem, and it has just _a little_ to do with cheap owners and incompetent management. If Garnett was looking to win, then it's safe to say that he didn't expect the front office and ownership to do what it took to field a contender. They won't be contending any time soon.


----------



## B_&_B

Based on what Ainge has done the last few years, I dont blame KG for not wanting to go to Boston.

Dont be mad guys, at least you have the Patriots and the Red Sox. 

:cheers:


----------



## aquaitious

whiterhino said:


> It is naive to think that you are going to get a top 5 player in the league for just Al, they WILL get the #5 also in this deal and I do beleive that it's going down. Honestly I could care less about the #5 pick it's nothing special there is no GREAT player available there.


The fifth pick and Al Jefferson is way too much. Let's think about this for one second. 

Pierce and Garnett would be a great duo, but the bench would be depleted.

Garnett is 31 years old.

We're giving up two potential all stars.

Garenett will not resign with us after next year.

WHY WOULD WE GIVE UP THE ONLY TALENTED PLAYERS/PICKS WE HAVE?



whiterhino said:


> As for the Marion comment I would take Marion EVERY day over the #5 pick, he's an NBA All-Star which is what you hope the #5 pick might turn into 5 years from now. I'm tired of rookies and young guys. I want to win now. The WHOLE point of collecting young talent was to make a trade for a superstar. Well Kevin Garnett is a superstar. I loathe losing Jefferson but he's the only player in the mix I even mind losing so for Garnett pull the trigger Danny. It is WELL PAST time to WIN. The Celtics will be good again finally, maybe only for a few years but i'll take it at this point. Let's go Celtics...............
> Now we just need to convince Garnett that Boston would be a good home for him :yay:


White, I don't think you're understanding that Marion does not fit with this team. In fact, he doesn't even fit in this conference.


----------



## Krimzon

> "The Boston trade isn't happening," Garnett's agent, Andy Miller, told ESPN.com's Chris Sheridan. "If a trade were to happen, that's not a destination that we're interested in pursuing."


It would have been nice to see Pierce and Garnett play together. To bad. The Celtics are just going to have to improve.


----------



## rainman

ehmunro said:


> Great, tell me when they're winning that title and how much you're wagering. I could use some entertainment. And, umm, in case you haven't noticed, the team's been a laughingstock since Danny "saved it". Back in 2004 Boston got rejected by the likes of Etan Thomas, Brian Skinner and Antonio McDyess. They have an image problem, and it has just _a little_ to do with cheap owners and incompetent management. If Garnett was looking to win, then it's safe to say that he didn't expect the front office and ownership to do what it took to field a contender. They won't be contending any time soon.


I wouldnt wager a dime on them going anywhere with Garnett on board. He'd barely replace Jefferson's production, he can kiss my *** for all i care.


----------



## Causeway

aquaitious said:


> The fifth pick and Al Jefferson is way too much. Let's think about this for one second.
> 
> Pierce and Garnett would be a great duo, but the bench would be depleted.
> 
> Garnett is 31 years old.
> 
> We're giving up two potential all stars.
> 
> Garenett will not resign with us after next year.
> 
> WHY WOULD WE GIVE UP THE ONLY TALENTED PLAYERS/PICKS WE HAVE?


I agree. We would still have good players, but we were giving up too much. Big Al _wants _to play in Boston. Garnett did us a favor. 




aquaitious said:


> White, I don't think you're understanding that Marion does not fit with this team. *In fact, he doesn't even fit in this conference.*


um, more than slight exageration. The guy is a hell of a player, I am pretty confident he could find a spot in the conference to do very well. And Boston may not be the perfect spot for Marion, but he'd do fine here. PLayers like him figure out how to contribute. And teams figure out how to use them. Well, who knows with Doc. But he'd still do fine here.


----------



## Causeway

By the way, I just noticed this at the bottom of the Garnett article:



> Complicating matters further, *Marion *also has the right to become a free agent after the 2007-08 season and has also let *it be known that he doesn't want to play in Minnesota or Boston*, sources say. That stance quickly killed the possibility of a three-way deal involving Minnesota, Phoenix and Boston.


It's going to be tougher than thought to trade the young guys for a solid vet.


----------



## whiterhino

> whiterhino said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is naive to think that you are going to get a top 5 player in the league for just Al, they WILL get the #5 also in this deal and I do beleive that it's going down.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, sorry about that. I assumed that our general manager wasn't completely incompetent for a moment. Edit
> 
> Tell me, please. What other options does Minnesota have? Please do not say Phoenix. Shawn Marion does not sell tickets. Please do not say Chicago. Ben Wallace does not sell tickets. P.J. Brown does not want to play for the Timberwolves. Please do not say New York. The Knicks do not have talented young players. So, what should Minnesota do? Nobody can trade for Garnett. Should they keep him? Perhaps that's the right decision. Yes, they should keep him and win thirty-five more games before he opts out of his contract. Edit
> 
> The Celtics are in control of this negotiation. If Ainge is even semi-competent, he can deal Jefferson and Green for Garnett. The fifth selection is not necessary. Then again, it's not very smart to assume that Ainge is even semi-competent.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Honestly I could care less about the #5 pick it's nothing special there is no GREAT player available there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You're rightEdit. Al Horford isn't a great player. However, he is a player that fits very well with Garnett. He defends. He rebounds. He scores down-low. Brandan Wright will be a great player, but we can't wait for him. Edit Yi Jianlian? Hah. Corey Brewer? Average. Joakim Noah? God no.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As for the Marion comment I would take Marion EVERY day over the #5 pick, he's an NBA All-Star which is what you hope the #5 pick might turn into 5 years from now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He's an all-star in Phoenix. He's a very good role player in a slow half-court offense in which he has to create his own shot or rely on his shaky perimeter jumper. Plus, D'Antoni said that he's not trading Marion for the fifth selection.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm tired of rookies and young guys. I want to win now. The WHOLE point of collecting young talent was to make a trade for a superstar.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A truly brilliant plan, no? That's why we should pay fair market value for a superstar when nobody else is offering more than half of Garnett's value. Edit, sarcasm is only good in small doses Prem.
Click to expand...

You need to learn not to get hostile and rude when people disagree with you kid. You are in a position of authority on this board and need to treat posters with more respect. I've been watching basketball since before you were born just because I don't agree with you does not mean I don't know what I'm talking about. Also I don't resort to insulting people. People disagree on message boards, you don't have to be rude.

The deal was Al & the # 5 by the way, like I said. Not that it matters because he does not want to be here, neither does Matrix so I hope we don't get either of them now. I want guys who want to be here. Yes we've sucked for a long time but it's still a storied franchise and if they don't respect that or the fact that adding them to Paul makes us contenders then they don't deserve to wear the green anyway. 

I don't see a lot else out there that would help us. I don't like Gasol much...not for Al anyway. Kirolenko would be a nice addition but not on the same level as the other guys. Rashard Lewis does not interest me because he's too much a duplication of Paul nor does Jermaine O'Neal because I don't think he's a "winner". I still don't see Danny sitting on his thumbs for this one though but I don't see what else can be done at this point.


----------



## #1AntoineWalkerFan

whiterhino said:


> I still don't see Danny sitting on his thumbs for this one though but I don't see what else can be done at this point.



when you dig a team into as deep of a hole as he has, you have to deal with the consequences. i didn think it would be this hard to trade for someone, and i wont completely blame ainge for bein the reason that noone wants to come to boston because players didnt come long before he got here, but ainge sure hasnt done anything to make players want to come here with his winning ways...


hmmm i know of at least one player out there who would waant to play in boston :clap2:


----------



## DaBosox

First off, if anyone's going to be berating it should be me. I just hate everyone.

As far as the rumour goes: well where are the Ainge apologists right now? Hands? IF you're out there I'd love to hear from you and explain why an absolute headcase wouldn't come to Boston. Even he knows this is a train wreck of a situation.

If I'm wearing jersey # 34, I demand a trade. The team you'll be going to is only going to give up a quarter on the dollar therefore making the team you're going to much better. If you want to win, that's a great way to do it. And at this point I wouldn't blame the guy at all. Thanks for the memories Paul, and it's your turn at the lifeboat on the SS Celtanic. The damage that the Aingeberg caused is just too great.


----------



## Causeway

Right, becasue after the 80's, and pre-Ainge, FA's and superstars (or stars for that matter) were lining up to come to Boston.


----------



## BostonBasketball

Once the Lakers knock some sense into themselves and realize they have to trade Kobe...who doesn't do this trade?

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/featur...0~2167~510~261&teams=16~13~16~16~16~2~16~2~21

Lakers get PHX's #24 and a future 1st from Celts, T-Wolves get Celt's #5 and PHX's #29.


----------



## Causeway

Marion said he does not want to come to Boston. Kobe would very likely say the same thing.


----------



## whiterhino

Causeway said:


> Marion said he does not want to come to Boston. Kobe would very likely say the same thing.


Kobe once said he'd play for the Celtics, he's a guy who appreciates the history of the NBA and the Celts are part of the history. I don't think I'd want him though for a lot of reasons...and putting him with Paul isn't like a star PF or C with Paul and they'd probably get Paul for him which gets us no where. Kobe wants players around him which we don't have. He's a great great basketball player but I don't like him and I don't think he makes his teamates better. Paul & change for Kobe leaves us in the same place and honestly if it were others for Kobe I don't see Paul & Kobe co-existing well. I don't know I don't really like it.
Marion said he won't play for Boston and he has an opt-out clause next season too so that's out. 
We are screwed basically. I hate the way guys can say where they want to play nowadays. It really sux for teams like us that want to get better but can't because everyone wants to go to teams that are already great. The rich get richer the poor get poorer. Thats why at this point I say try to obtain someone like Kirolenko. He won't put us over the hump by any means but he'll help and he'd actually come here.


----------



## LamarButler

The Suns are keeping Amare, according to the East Valley Tribune.

And I just read on Hoopshype that Boston officials are sure that Garnett doesn't feel the way he does about Boston, just that his agent doesn't want Garnett to go to Boston.

So maybe this means there's still hope?


----------



## Mateo

I'm a Wolves fan and I do think the Boston deal will happen. It appears that the Suns aren't willing to budge on Amare (I guess they think they are already good enough to win a title), and I'm guessing and hoping the Wolves won't accept Marion and picks. So I think the Celtics deal is likely going to happen, once Garnett realizes that Phoenix isn't.

_However_ there is still a slight chance that the Wolves might accept the Marion deal if only for the fact that Garnett wants to go there. I seriously believe the team would at least consider taking the lesser deal to make Garnett happy. But if not, I don't think any other team can approach the Boston offer.


----------



## Dissonance

LamarButler said:


> The Suns are keeping Amare, according to the East Valley Tribune.
> 
> And I just read on Hoopshype that Boston officials are sure that Garnett doesn't feel the way he does about Boston, just that his agent doesn't want Garnett to go to Boston.
> 
> So maybe this means there's still hope?



And there's a contradicting article on yahoo where league sources say Amare isn't untouchable when it comes to Garnett. Right below EVT report on hoopshype rumors, where league sources says Suns are not parting with him.


----------



## aquaitious

I don't think it makes sense for the Suns to trade Amare.


----------



## Mateo

I think it makes a lot of sense, but I don't think they want to do it for some reason. I guess they think they're already good enough to win a championship.


----------



## Dissonance

aquaitious said:


> I don't think it makes sense for the Suns to trade Amare.



Well, here would be the reasons. They're not totally happy with him.

1. Defense
2. Laziness. His work ethic in rehab was questioned.
3. His attitude and some conflict issues. I also heard he hung out more with Banks, Jumaine Jones, and Kurt Thomas.
4. Doctor told him he might need another microfracture surgery in 3-5 yrs.


I think I'm in more favor of doing cuz of those reasons, plus the fact that Nash's window is about 2-3 yrs. Amare in the future doesn't guarantee a title, neither would KG I know. I'm also concerned about Amare after Nash is done. Amare might not be the same player without someone getting it to him.


----------



## E.H. Munro

I know why Suns fans _really_ want to trade Amare for Garnett. Big Amare would immediately become a T'wolves fan.


----------



## Dissonance

ehmunro said:


> I know why Suns fans _really_ want to trade Amare for Garnett. Big Amare would immediately become a T'wolves fan.


lol. 

Really just 2-3 who I see in favor of it. But probably be fine if it didn't. But all indications that I've seen, he would still be a Suns fan.


----------



## #1AntoineWalkerFan

Dissonance19 said:


> Well, here would be the reasons. They're not totally happy with him.
> 
> 1. Defense
> *2. Laziness. His work ethic in rehab was questioned.*
> 3. His attitude and some conflict issues. I also heard he hung out more with Banks, Jumaine Jones, and Kurt Thomas.
> 4. Doctor told him he might need another microfracture surgery in 3-5 yrs.
> 
> 
> I think I'm in more favor of doing cuz of those reasons, plus the fact that Nash's window is about 2-3 yrs. Amare in the future doesn't guarantee a title, neither would KG I know. I'm also concerned about Amare after Nash is done. Amare might not be the same player without someone getting it to him.



are you kidding??? the guy told people he would be an all star at the beginning of last year when noone thought he could come back to full strength then he took the nba by storm


----------



## Floods

bmac said:


> With how bad the East has been i agree that KG and Pierce would put u guys right in the mix.
> 
> 
> Cos the Celts would have a dynamite supporting cast if u guys did get KG wouldn't u.


OK a legit KG trade to LA would probably be Odom, Bynum, Vujacic, Kwame Brown and a 1st round draft pick this year (if the Lakers have one i'm not sure). If Troy Hudson is in the deal too, this leaves LA with a likely rotation of Jordan Farmar, Kobe Bryant, Luke Walton, Kevin Garnett, and Chris Mihm starting and Brian Cook, Hudson, and Mo Evans. Compare that to the proposed Celtics trade, which i believe was Szczerbiak, Telfair, Jefferson, the pick, and Ratliff. Now we have a rotation of Rondo, Tony Allen, Pierce, Garnett, and Perkins (nauses as he makes me), with Hudson, Gerald Green, and Ryan Gomes off the bench. I think i'd take our support over the Lakers'. Besides we don't even know if Kobe will be a laker next year.



> U sound like a 16 year old kid crying cos he isn't getting his way. Oh wait...


should i be jumping up and down then?

Stop chaning players names and try avoid the masking. aqua.


----------



## Mateo

Yeah... I think the Celtics trade is better than the Lakers trade, for both teams.


----------



## Dissonance

#1AntoineWalkerFan said:


> are you kidding??? the guy told people he would be an all star at the beginning of last year when noone thought he could come back to full strength then he took the nba by storm



Jack McCallum wrote a book called 7 seconds or less, which chronicled that Suns season along with his rehab. He was in meetings with coaches, management and such and heard and saw everything. It mentions all about his work ethic.

excerpt from a review




> There are also plenty of negatives in the book. For instance, there's kind of an ongoing theme of Amare Stoudemire being a really nice guy, but also absurdly unworldly and, most importantly, in McCallum's words, "dogging it in rehab."


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## Floods

#1AntoineWalkerFan said:


> F U KG...you used to be one of my favorite players...now you can rot in minnesota you bum


yaeah...repped!!!! :cheers:


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## Floods

aquaitious said:


> I don't think it makes sense for the Suns to trade Amare.


Agreed. That helps no one. Amare needs Nash to be effective, because he can't be nearly as explosive himself if he doesn't have a guy like Nash setting him up all the time.


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan

Dissonance19 said:


> Jack McCallum wrote a book called 7 seconds or less, which chronicled that Suns season along with his rehab. He was in meetings with coaches, management and such and heard and saw everything. It mentions all about his work ethic.
> 
> excerpt from a review




so he "dogged it" in rehab and ended up giving the suns 20-10 in the regular season and 25-12 in the post season...i hope more celtics dogg it like he did


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## bmac

In 13 games that Amare has played without Nash over the past 3 seasons he's averaged 24 points and 9 rebounds on 50% shooting.

Nash obviously improves his FG% with all the easy buckets he gets him but Amare is gonna dominate, with or without Nash.


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## Floods

Don't be so sure. Everybody would look good with Nash calling the shots. BRIAN SCALABRINE would look good in the Suns offense. All I know is that over the past 3 years when Nash hasn't played, the Suns haven't been impressive.


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## bmac

You're right, the Suns do fall apart without Nash, except it's guys like Marion that are most affected. Amare has proven he can still put up big numbers without him.


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## Floods

It seems that way because Marion has 3-point range (Stoudemire has limited 2-point range). Amare is affected when Banks/Barbosa has the ropes rather than Nash, no one can provide the pinpoint passes that set up 95% of Amare's baseline slams.


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## Dissonance

bmac said:


> You're right, the Suns do fall apart without Nash, except it's guys like Marion that are most affected. Amare has proven he can still put up big numbers without him.



Marion has proven it. More than Amare.


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## bmac

No he hasn't. Marion relies on Nash more to get him easy buckets because he's not great at creating his own shot.

Just had a look, and in 16 games that Marion has played without Nash his FG% is only 43%, down from his usual rate of about 50%.


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## Dissonance

bmac said:


> No he hasn't. Marion relies on Nash more to get him easy buckets because he's not great at creating his own shot.
> 
> Just had a look, and in 16 games that Marion has played without Nash his FG% is only 43%, down from his usual rate of about 50%.


I know he can't create his own shot, but I'm saying before Nash in Marion's career (more than 16 games), he still put up the same numbers (17-21ppg) without him, despite shooting between 44-48%. 

Both of their fg% obviously get affected, like you admitted with Amare. Marion has proven it longer.


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## bmac

Well he's been in the league a lot longer than Amare so he's obviously proven it longer. I just think Amare is a more capable scorer that's all.

Not trying to knock Marion or anything, i think he's perennially one of the most under-appreciated players in the league.


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## Causeway

Garnett-to-L.A. talks end



> Trade talks that involved sending Minnesota star Kevin Garnett to the Los Angles Lakers have ended, sources within the organizations have told ProBasketballNews.com.
> 
> “It’s officially dead. (Timberwolves owner Glen) Taylor won’t allow it to happen,” one source said.
> 
> The deal was first reported by the Los Angeles Times as a possible four-team trade that also involved Indiana and Boston, in which the Lakers would have received Garnett. According to the Times, Lakers big men Lamar Odom and Andrew Bynum would have been sent to Indiana, and Indiana forward Jermaine O’Neal would have gone to Boston. Minnesota would have received young players and draft picks.
> 
> The Times later reported that Boston backed out of the deal -- leaving the Lakers and Timberwolves to negotiate on their own. One scenario reported by the newspaper had the Lakers shipping Odom, Bynum and the No. 19 pick to Minnesota for Garnett.
> 
> The Boston Globe and other news sources have reported similar deals within the past 24 hours.
> 
> “All discussions have ended (between the Lakers and Timberwolves),” a second source told PBN.com. “There’s no deal.”
> 
> A third source would only say “it‘s very slim” when asked if there remained a possibility that Garnett could end up with the Lakers this off-season.
> 
> Taylor and Timberwolves vice-president of basketball operations Kevin McHale ended the talks with L.A. after determining the Lakers couldn’t offer enough in return, according to the sources. The Timberwolves are expected to continue seeking a deal for Garnett, and will likely focus their attention again on Boston and possibly Phoenix.
> 
> *“It seems like they don’t want (Garnett) playing in the Western Conference, and that only makes sense,” *the first source said.


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## Premier

So, if Minnesota doesn't want Garnett in the West and only a few teams can trade for him in the East, he better reconsider his refusal to play in Boston.


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## aquaitious

Premier said:


> So, if Minnesota doesn't want Garnett in the West and only a few teams can trade for him in the East, he better reconsider his refusal to play in Boston.


The agent or KG?


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## Floods

Who originally refused to play here (KG or his agent)?


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan

i dont see how its unclear to garnett that if he teams up with pierce they are a virtual lock for the finals...with detroit getting old and losing billups, miami getting old, cleveland...who wouldnt have made it out of the first round if arenas and butler were healthy, and the rest of the bum teams in the east...sure they would have bigtime trouble against teams like phoenix or san antonio but anything can happen once they make it there...they would dominate the eastern conference...why would he not want that?


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## Floods

That's been my thinking all along. I guess KG just wants to make life more difficult though by dealing with 3-4 powerhouse teams in-conference if he goes to the west, and the suns, rather than going to the ECF on cruise control in the east, with the C's


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## Causeway

If the choice is PHX or Boston, it's obvious why he'd want PHX. However, if it's MN or Boston - it has to be Boston.


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## BostonBasketball

Woohoo more rumors. http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2917781


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## Ruff Draft

Causeway said:


> If the choice is PHX or Boston, it's obvious why he'd want PHX. However, if it's MN or Boston - it has to be Boston.


Unless a third team is involved. Amare isn't going anywhere, and Marion wont go to Boston. ESPN said talks with LA are over, but Minne still wants too move KG. Welcome to Boston Kevin! :biggrin:


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## Ainge for 3

BostonBasketball said:


> Woohoo more rumors. http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2917781


Does Marion just need someone to get him the ball to be very good? Because I like what Pierce and Rondo could do in getting Marion the ball. I guess the extension is the only thing scary about the deal for us.

Rondo, PG
West, SG
Pierce, SF
Marion, PF
Big Al, C

That looks pretty nifty to me.


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## Ruff Draft

Rondo would have no problem getting Marion the ball in a full-court game.


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## Premier

Pierce is not a fast-break offense player.


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## Dissonance

XMATTHEWX said:


> Unless a third team is involved. Amare isn't going anywhere, and Marion wont go to Boston. ESPN said talks with LA are over, but Minne still wants too move KG. Welcome to Boston Kevin! :biggrin:



KG is not gonna go to Boston.


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## Ruff Draft

EDIT: Oops. I read Prem wrong. Or he worded it wrong. I'm not sure.


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## Ainge for 3

Premier said:


> Pierce is not a fast-break offense player.


He is a great passer, though. That's worth something to Marion.


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## Ruff Draft

Well with Rondo, Green, and Marion on the floor. Things could speed up.


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## bmac

Premier said:


> Pierce is not a fast-break offense player.


I think Pierce has the capability to be a great fast break player. He just hasn't had the personnel around him to be able to pull off such an offense.


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## BostonBasketball

Keep in mind that Marion averaged 21.2pts and 38.7% from 3 with Marbury as his PG. And then the next year averaged 19ppg and 34% from 3 playing more than half the season without any semblance of a PG (Marbury was traded)


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## Dissonance

BostonBasketball said:


> Keep in mind that Marion averaged 21.2pts and 38.7% from 3 with Marbury as his PG. And then the next year averaged 19ppg and 34% from 3 playing more than half the season without any semblance of a PG (Marbury was traded)



He's not a good 3 pt shooter. He shot worse from 3 with Nash. About 32-33%.


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan

Dissonance19 said:


> He's not a good 3 pt shooter. He shot worse from 3 with Nash. About 32-33%.




33% from 3 is equivalent to 50% from 2...good enough for me


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## Dissonance

#1AntoineWalkerFan said:


> 33% from 3 is equivalent to 50% from 2...good enough for me



Oh, yeah. Of course. I love Marion. I'd hate to see him go.


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## E.H. Munro

Ainge for 3 said:


> Does Marion just need someone to get him the ball to be very good? Because I like what Pierce and Rondo could do in getting Marion the ball. I guess the extension is the only thing scary about the deal for us.
> 
> Rondo, PG
> West, SG
> Pierce, SF
> Marion, PF
> Big Al, C
> 
> That looks pretty nifty to me.


Given that Boston would be sacrificing all their trade assets, except the only starter above 6'7", and that Marion will (in all likelihood) get a max extension (Pierce money) to forget his objections, that looks like a team going nowhere in a hurry, with no assets or financial flexibility to improve. About the only good thing about that lineup is that it will get Ainge fired in two years.



XMATTHEWX said:


> Well with Rondo, Green, and Marion on the floor. Things could speed up.


Green would be gone, and a fastbreak offense would neutralise Pierce & Jefferson's strengths as players. All for 40 wins and a first round playoff defeat as long as that lineup's carrying the standard.



bmac said:


> I think Pierce has the capability to be a great fast break player. He just hasn't had the personnel around him to be able to pull off such an offense.


Pierce is best in a halfcourt game because. In a fast break game he'll be wearing out himself rather than his opponents. Truth be told, that smurfy lineup isn't going anywhere in the postseason.


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## bmac

You're right, Pierce is extremely good in the half court, as is Jefferson when he's playing out of the post.

But Marion would allow them to play an uptempo style at times, instead of always having to rely on their halfcourt offense to score all their points. A lineup of Rondo, West/Allen, Pierce, Marion and Jefferson would get a lot of easy points in transition.

They'd be a little undersized, but Marion is a great defender and both he and Pierce are excellent rebounders.


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## E.H. Munro

bmac said:


> You're right, Pierce is extremely good in the half court, as is Jefferson when he's playing out of the post.
> 
> But Marion would allow them to play an uptempo style at times, instead of always having to rely on their halfcourt offense to score all their points. A lineup of Rondo, West/Allen, Pierce, Marion and Jefferson would get a lot of easy points in transition.
> 
> They'd be a little undersized, but Marion is a great defender and both he and Pierce are excellent rebounders.


They'd be a lot undersized, not a little. They'd be fielding a 6'9"/6'7"/6'6" front line. Even Chicago has a bigger frontline. And they got their heads handed to them in the second round with a cast considerably better than the one the Celtics would be fielding. So I still can't see them getting out of the first round. How the hell do they defend teams like Toronto, New York, Orlando, Charlotte, Indiana, or hell, even New Jersey (if they import Z-Bo) or Atlanta (if they land Gasol)? What happens in the playoffs (presuming they make it) against Chicago, whose SF would be bigger than our PF?


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## bmac

Well they'd still have Kendrick Perkins if they wanted to go with a bigger lineup, but the East doesn't have many big guys that are really capable of dominating anyway. Look at the Warriors, they won a playoff series in the West playing smallball. Granted, Boston doesn't have an elite PG or a crafty coach like Nellie, but in the wide open East i think they'd be very competitive.

I don't think they'd be title contenders or anything, i just think Marion is gonna help them a lot more than whoever they get at #5 will. And with Pierce turning 30 before the seasons starts they should try to put together the best possible team now.

It's either that or completely start over and trade Pierce.


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## E.H. Munro

bmac said:


> Well they'd still have Kendrick Perkins if they wanted to go with a bigger lineup, but the East doesn't have many big guys that are really capable of dominating anyway. Look at the Warriors, they won a playoff series in the West playing smallball. Granted, Boston doesn't have an elite PG or a crafty coach like Nellie, but in the wide open East i think they'd be very competitive.
> 
> I don't think they'd be title contenders or anything, i just think Marion is gonna help them a lot more than whoever they get at #5 will. And with Pierce turning 30 before the seasons starts they should try to put together the best possible team now.
> 
> It's either that or completely start over and trade Pierce.


That would be the slow-footed center that developed plantar fascitis? Yeah, that'll surely cure their size/speed deficit.


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## bmac

Did i say it would. No, you're throwing a hissy fit cos u think they'd be undersized. I merely mentioned an option.

Doesn't change the fact that Marion would make them a better team RIGHT NOW than anyone they could get with the #5.


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## E.H. Munro

I'm not throwing a hissy fit at all. Just pointing out that the team won't be competitive after the trade, have no assets to trade for upgrades, and no financial flexibility to make the upgrades necessary to win. It's a losing hand. The advantage is that after two playoff flame outs Ainge would be fired, because the owners would be forced to either spend money or make changes, and Wyc makes Ebenezer Scrooge look like Malcolm Forbes.


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## bmac

I agree that it would kill their financial flexibility, particularly with Al Jefferson's extension soon to be added to the payroll.

Personally i would start over by trading Pierce for draft picks/young players/salary relief. But since it appears that Ainge is committed to bringing in some veteran help to convince Pierce to stay/keep his job, i simply think that acquiring a player of Marion's calibre would lead to a dramatic improvement.


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## aquaitious

Pierce, Marion and Jefferson will account for 50 million dollars in the payroll department in two seasons.


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## E.H. Munro

aquaitious said:


> Pierce, Marion and Jefferson will account for 50 million dollars in the payroll department in two seasons.


Don't forget Szczuperstar. The four of them combined will make about 95% of the luxury tax in 2009. And they'll still have West, Allen, and Gomes to pay, or trade them all and fill in an already mediocre roster with yet more rookie scrubs. They should just roll the dice on Garnett, it actually makes more sense for them. Because, frankly, it doesn't leave them any worse off than they would be after dealing for Marion, and they'd be in a considerably better position.


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## Floods

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2917781



> There was a growing sentiment around the league Tuesday night that the Kevin Garnett sweepstakes are nearing a conclusion and that the Phoenix Suns are the most likely winners, with two trade scenarios emerging that could potentially land Garnett in the desert by draft night.
> With the Los Angeles Lakers' attempts to construct a multi-team deal or a direct trade with the Minnesota Timberwolves collapsing, ESPN's Jim Gray reports that talk of a potential three-team trade that would involve Minnesota, Boston and Phoenix has been rekindled, in which the primary cost to the Suns would be All-Star forward Shawn Marion moving to the celtics.


things are getting spicy... but there's another scenario being discussed too?



> Yet an even bigger trade concept, ESPN.com has learned, was hatched Tuesday by the Wolves, in which Phoenix would likely be asked to trade away the player it has been trying _not_ to trade, All-NBA center Amare Stoudemire, who would go to the Atlanta Hawks.


hmmm...


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## agoo

Pierce Marrion and Jefferson would be nice. No way would I deal Jefferson and the five and Ratliff's insurance for him though.


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