# OT:Religion



## Saint Baller

What religion are you?


I am a Shia Ismaili Muslim. I believe there is one god and he has many messengers (Jesus, Moses, Mohd. Ali etc.)

But from what I think, I think my family was actually Jewish or somthing a VERY long time ago. My last name is Moosani and Moosa which is Arabic for Moses makes me think we might have been related or something to him. 

Anyways, I like talking about religion and stuff so I wanted to know everyone elses views on Religion.


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## Jet

Saint Baller said:


> Anyways, I like talking about religion and stuff so I wanted to know everyone elses views on Religion.


Im the opposite of you, I hate talking about religion. Im Christian and I hate it when people say theres no God. It makes me depressed so therefore I hate talking about it with people who are Atheists or however its spelled, Im assuming you know what Im talking about right? I feel the reason why they think there is no God is because they've never witnessed an act of God's but idk, whatever. I just hate talking about religion, so now I am done with this topic.


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## Saint Baller

I get what your saying, it makes me feel bad when people say lots of **** about Islam when they have no idea what they are talking about. But I love my religion and love to talk about it, I like to learn about other religions too.


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## t1no

I don't have one.


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## Saint Baller

Are you Atheist? Or do you believe in God? Or what?


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## t1no

Saint Baller said:


> Are you Atheist? Or do you believe in God? Or what?


I believe in God sure but i just don't have a religion.


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## FreeMason Jr.

I am a non-denominational protestant christian. I have a strong faith in God, and I have accepted Jesus Christ as my personnel lord and saviour, but I am not in a specific protestant denomination.


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## L

Me? No faith whatsover.
Strong evidence on either side of "whether God really exists or not", so im not really going to bother with it.
The only people I have a problem with are people who are ignorant enough to not tolerate or at least try to understand another's views on life,God or gods, etc.
Sadly, thats a lot of people.


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## Dre

ALL YOU GUYS ARE WRONG!!1 MY RELIGION IS THE CORRECT EON AND i DON'T CARE WHAT ANYONE SAYS ABOUT ANYTHING ELSE!!1


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## L

_Dre_ said:


> ALL YOU GUYS ARE WRONG!!1 MY RELIGION IS THE CORRECT EON AND i DON'T CARE WHAT ANYONE SAYS ABOUT ANYTHING ELSE!!1


I hate you. 







































































































:angel: :clown:












































Why are you still scrolling down?


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## xray

Well, I applaude you guys for at least being civil.



SaintBaller said:


> But from what I think, I think my family was actually Jewish or somthing a VERY long time ago. My last name is Moosani and Moosa which is Arabic for Moses makes me think we might have been related or something to him.


The Christian and Muslim faiths have many of the same orracles, and both come from the seed of Abraham - one faith (Christianity) believes Isaac was the promised seed, and Muslims believe it was Ishmael.

Personally, I'm Christian but I'm like 2dumb2live: It's those that are willing to break the peace that bother me.


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## edwardcyh

Christian here and welcoming all religious discussions.

:cheers:


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## Saint Baller

Well, I want to ask some Christians this. I saw the Da Vinci code a few weeks ago, did that offend any of you, and do you think it could be real?


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## edwardcyh

Saint Baller said:


> Well, I want to ask some Christians this. I saw the Da Vinci code a few weeks ago, did that offend any of you, and do you think it could be real?


Haven't seen it yet, so I am not offended. :biggrin: 

What element of the film could offend Christians?


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## L

edwardcyh said:


> *Haven't seen it yet, so I am not offended.* :biggrin:
> 
> What element of the film could offend Christians?


:rofl:


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## Saint Baller

edwardcyh said:


> Haven't seen it yet, so I am not offended. :biggrin:
> 
> What element of the film could offend Christians?


 I dont know exactly, the whole film is basically about how Jesus could have had a Wife who had a daugter. I dont get how that makes Christians mad, but it did to alot of them. Alot are protesting the movie and stuff


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## L

Saint Baller said:


> I dont know exactly, the whole film is basically about how Jesus could have had a Wife who had a daugter. I dont get how that makes Christians mad, but it did to alot of them. Alot are protesting the movie and stuff


When people are bored they love to protest.


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## xray

Saint Baller said:


> I dont know exactly, the whole film is basically about how Jesus could have had a Wife who had a daugter. I dont get how that makes Christians mad, but it did to alot of them. Alot are protesting the movie and stuff


If the bible doesn't mention something - and it mentioned nothing of Jesus' marriage or offspring - then a whole bunch of people will jump on it. :nonono:


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## L

jesus shot a little girl once. Protest.


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## Saint Baller

2dumb2live said:


> jesus shot a little girl once. Protest.


 :rofl:


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## xray

I'm sure everyone knows this thread is like a teenager in a bar at midnight:

One slip and it's gone. :rofl:


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## Ninjatune

I'm surprised it made it to page 2.......

Tick... Tick....Tick.....


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## xray

Ninjatune said:


> I'm surprised it made it to page 2.......
> 
> Tick... Tick....Tick.....


It's been on the watch list since day one. :bsmile:


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## Ninjatune

Ninja opts to avoid religious threads due to past experience......


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## Saint Baller

I was being serious when I made this thread, no body else is being serious


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## L

Saint Baller said:


> I was being serious when I made this thread, no body else is being serious


I was being serious as first, but now im thinking post pad!


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## Saint Baller

2dumb2live said:


> I was being serious as first, but now im thinking post pad!


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## Ninjatune

It is very difficult to have these types of discussions in a forum setting. I could post pages and pages of reilgious thoughts but I choose not to seeing how it is or can be such a volitile subject. I've seen many a forum go up in smoke over a similar thread.


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## L

We had religious threads on bbb.net before, so i dont see the danger of a forum being warranted as a danger zone something along with those lines. I can see some posts getting out of hand but i always find these discussions quite interesting and dare i say-intelligent.


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## Ninjatune

Don't get me wrong.... it is very possible to have mature conversations of this nature, it's just more likely to blow up while discussing this topic.


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## L

Ninjatune said:


> Don't get me wrong.... it is very possible to have mature conversations of this nature, it's just more likely to blow up while discussing this topic.


Cant disagree with that.


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## edwardcyh

Saint Baller said:


> I dont know exactly, the whole film is basically about how Jesus could have had a Wife who had a daugter. I dont get how that makes Christians mad, but it did to alot of them. Alot are protesting the movie and stuff


There are simply too many different Christian groups out there. Wikipedia has a nice little list going (link). Different denomination believe in something different, and quite a few of them out there eveb base their beliefs, not on the Bible, but on books that were supposedly "excluded" from the Bible.

A simply google search lead me to this site that contains a list of "lost books of the Bible."

I am not sure which one of these "lost books" mention Christ having a wife and a child, but I am sure at least one of them mentions such an event. Some christians may get aggrevated because Bible doesn't say so, while other christians are fine with it because they think the event was only "edited out."

There is your controversy.... :angel:


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## L

edwardcyh said:


> There are simply too many different Christian groups out there. Wikipedia has a nice little list going (link). Different denomination believe in something different, and quite a few of them out there eveb base their beliefs, not on the Bible, but on books that were supposedly "excluded" from the Bible.
> 
> A simply google search lead me to this site that contains a list of "lost books of the Bible."
> 
> I am not sure which one of these "lost books" mention Christ having a wife and a child, but I am sure at least one of them mentions such an event. Some christians may get aggrevated because Bible doesn't say so, while other christians are fine with it because they think the event was only "edited out."
> 
> There is your controversy.... :angel:


My question is this: As long as there is a God and a eternal life, why bother with readings/scriptures from the Bible?

Simple-When people are bored, they protest.


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## L

"Somehow Isiah Thomas" is also a acceptable answer.


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## Pimped Out

if anyone wants a there to be a reason to close this thread, let me know... im sure i could work some of my magic here.


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## Saint Baller

edwardcyh said:


> There are simply too many different Christian groups out there. Wikipedia has a nice little list going (link). Different denomination believe in something different, and quite a few of them out there eveb base their beliefs, not on the Bible, but on books that were supposedly "excluded" from the Bible.
> 
> A simply google search lead me to this site that contains a list of "lost books of the Bible."
> 
> I am not sure which one of these "lost books" mention Christ having a wife and a child, but I am sure at least one of them mentions such an event. Some christians may get aggrevated because Bible doesn't say so, while other christians are fine with it because they think the event was only "edited out."
> 
> There is your controversy.... :angel:


 Okay, correct me if I am wrong I dont know much about Christianity.

This is where the controversy starts

Jesus is said to be the Son of God by Christians, correct? That being said, if he had a child that child would become the Great Grandchild of God and so on as the children have children. Isn't it a bit unorthodox to say that the Great great great great great great great great etc. Grand child of God is living on this planet? From what I have heard, from my friends that are Christian, if that is true then the Christian faith would be demolished. Because Jesus wasn't a man, but a God.

So that would demolish Christianity wouldnt it?


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## edwardcyh

2dumb2live said:


> My question is this: As long as there is a God and a eternal life, why bother with readings/scriptures from the Bible?
> 
> Simple-When people are bored, they protest.


Well... what do students do in school?

Why do the classes come with a nice thick text? Because that's how you learn on your own. You read Chapter 4-7 from the text required by your BIO-101 class so you can go in and take a test on how much you've learned...

If you would like to know more about Christ, you read the Bible....

People sometimes protest because they want to be heard.... IMO


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## L

Saint Baller said:


> Okay, correct me if I am wrong I dont know much about Christianity.
> 
> This is where the controversy starts
> 
> Jesus is said to be the Son of God by Christians, correct? That being said, if he had a child that child would become the Great Grandchild of God and so on as the children have children. Isn't it a bit unorthodox to say that the Great great great great great great great great etc. Grand child of God is living on this planet? From what I have heard, from my friends that are Christian, if that is true then the Christian faith would be demolished. Because Jesus wasn't a man, but a God.
> 
> So that would demolish Christianity wouldnt it?


Jesus was both man and God.


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## FreeMason Jr.

Actually, the Da Vinci code isn't just about the theory of jesus having a wife and a daughter, but it also implies that he never died on the cross, but escaped to france before his crucifiction. It's perfectly understandable why some christians would be offended by the film or the book (I was not, but I understand if others were) Atleast they were ALOT more civil than the islamic extremist after the mohammad cartoon incident.


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## Saint Baller

But he was still God right? That would be kind of absurd if someone came up to me and said, "Hey, you see that guy over there? He's pulling miracles! He must be the son of God!" Wouldn't it to you?


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## Saint Baller

ezealen said:


> Actually, the Da Vinci code isn't just about the theory of jesus having a wife and a daughter, but it also implies that he never died on the cross, but escaped to france before his crucifiction. It's perfectly understandable why some christians would be offended by the film or the book (I was not, but I understand if others were) Atleast they were ALOT more civil than the islamic extremist after the mohammad cartoon incident.


 The thing that happend there was that the extremist took it too seriously, I myself was very upset that they did that. Mohd. was a prophet and in that time people did not have cameras or anything, alot of people were to illeterate to draw a picture as well. And in the Qu'ran it says you must not draw, nor picture the messengers of Allah (God in arabic).

I was upset, not mad or anything but just upset. And there are different parts of Islam that are more extreme to that cause, while my kind of group is more about Religion and learning what had happend and pray, rather than be offended by anything that some idiot does.


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## edwardcyh

Saint Baller said:


> Okay, correct me if I am wrong I dont know much about Christianity.
> 
> This is where the controversy starts
> 
> Jesus is said to be the Son of God by Christians, correct? That being said, if he had a child that child would become the Great Grandchild of God and so on as the children have children. Isn't it a bit unorthodox to say that the Great great great great great great great great etc. Grand child of God is living on this planet? From what I have heard, from my friends that are Christian, if that is true then the Christian faith would be demolished. Because Jesus wasn't a man, but a God.
> 
> So that would demolish Christianity wouldnt it?


LOL.... that's partially why Bible makes zero mention of Christ being married... with a kid... etc.

According to the Bible, the triune god (father, son, and the spirit) seeks not the company of a single woman; instead, he was looking for the church (not the building, but the crowd of believers).

....... the above statement may be disagreed by different Christian denominations.


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## L

edwardcyh said:


> Well... what do students do in school?
> 
> Why do the classes come with a nice thick text? Because that's how you learn on your own. You read Chapter 4-7 from the text required by your BIO-101 class so you can go in and take a test on how much you've learned...
> 
> If you would like to know more about Christ, you read the Bible....
> 
> *People sometimes protest because they want to be heard.... IMO*


No people protest when they are bored. They find a hot button topic, protest and have fun. :biggrin:


Biology and the Bible are two different things. In school, you have to learn because you are forced to since your future are on the line. You can read the Bible for your own personal knowledge and further study of the history of Christ and Christianity itself imo.


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## FreeMason Jr.

Saint Baller said:


> The thing that happend there was that the extremist took it too seriously, I myself was very upset that they did that. Mohd. was a prophet and in that time people did not have cameras or anything, alot of people were to illeterate to draw a picture as well. And in the Qu'ran it says you must not draw, nor picture the messengers of Allah (God in arabic).
> 
> I was upset, not mad or anything but just upset. And there are different parts of Islam that are more extreme to that cause, while my kind of group is more about Religion and learning what had happend and pray, rather than be offended by anything that some idiot does.


That is why I was sure to include extremist in my post. 

I know not all those of the islamic faith are like that, It was just very upsetting reading some of the posters thost extremist fools were waving. "Learn from 9/11, Europe!", "Exterminate those who make fun of Islam!", "You 9/11 is on it's way, Europe!"


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## edwardcyh

2dumb2live said:


> Jesus was both man and God.


Now..... can you tell Saint Baller the significance of that? :biggrin:


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## L

edwardcyh said:


> Now..... can you tell Saint Baller the significance of that? :biggrin:


i dont know. Im a dirty, low down, good for nothing atheist.:biggrin:


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## Saint Baller

ezealen said:


> That is why I was sure to include extremist in my post.
> 
> I know not all those of the islamic faith are like that, It was just very upsetting reading some of the posters thost extremist fools were waving. "Learn from 9/11, Europe!", "Exterminate those who make fun of Islam!", "You 9/11 is on it's way, Europe!"


 In reality, only 5% of the muslims were supporting 9/11 and things like that. And America seems to target those 5% as the whole Muslim race and say we are all terrorists who wish to bomb everything we see.


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## Saint Baller

*To Ed
*
Ehh, I could try.... But I'd make a complete idiot of my self...

Maybe he was like Hercules? A Demi-God?


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## edwardcyh

2dumb2live said:


> No people protest when they are bored. They find a hot button topic, protest and have fun. :biggrin:
> 
> 
> Biology and the Bible are two different things. In school, you have to learn because you are forced to since your future are on the line. You can read the Bible for your own personal knowledge and further study of the history of Christ and Christianity itself imo.


LOL... ok. people protest for fun.

Well... you read to gain knowledge and experience. You should read the text to learn the facts.

As a Christian, one should read the Bible to gain a more personal relationship with the Man upstairs... :biggrin:


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## L

edwardcyh said:


> LOL... ok. people protest for fun.
> 
> Well... you read to gain knowledge and experience. You should read the text to learn the facts.
> 
> As a Christian, one should read the Bible to gain a more personal relationship with the* Man* upstairs... :biggrin:


Or the Woman upstairs?


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## edwardcyh

Saint Baller said:


> *To Ed
> *
> Ehh, I could try.... But I'd make a complete idiot of my self...
> 
> Maybe he was like Hercules? A Demi-God?


LOL.... That's mixing Greek mythology with Christianity....

LOL... nice try though. :biggrin:


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## Saint Baller

Yeah, I agree... Alot of muslims memorize the Qu'ran. It symbolizes a stronger relationship with Allah.


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## Saint Baller

edwardcyh said:


> LOL.... That's mixing Greek mythology with Christianity....
> 
> LOL... nice try though. :biggrin:


 Ehh, I tried.. Dont I get any credit?


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## edwardcyh

2dumb2live said:


> Or the Woman upstairs?


Alright.... do you REALLY want to go at it? :biggrin:


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## L

edwardcyh said:


> Alright.... do you REALLY want to go at it? :biggrin:


 :argue: 
Actually, imo, if there is a God-he/she wouldnt be either sex but rather no one cannot really explain what God is/look like either.


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## Saint Baller

I am very sure that God is a man. All three holy books say God is a man so that is what I believe.


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## edwardcyh

Saint Baller said:


> Ehh, I tried.. Dont I get any credit?


Of course you get credit because 2dumb2live couldn't even come up with ANY answer! :biggrin: 

The tricky thing about Christianity is that there are too many denominations, and every denomination have their own little set of variations. That's why I have to state the "common" answer and can't quite go into the specifics.


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## L

Saint Baller said:


> I am very sure that God is a man. All three holy books say God is a man so that is what I believe.


Yes but it is arguable that the books of the Bible were written by biased, sexist men.
I could care less what sex God is, for i dont believe that God exists.


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## edwardcyh

2dumb2live said:


> :argue:
> Actually, imo, if there is a God-he/she wouldnt be either sex but rather no one cannot really explain what God is/look like either.


Because God is light, and you can't really make a form out of light. :biggrin:


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## edwardcyh

2dumb2live said:


> Yes but it is arguable that the books of the Bible were written by biased, sexist men.
> I could care less what sex God is, for i dont believe that God exists.


Do you believe in ghosts? Demons?


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## L

edwardcyh said:


> Of course you get credit because 2dumb2live couldn't even come up with ANY answer! :biggrin:
> 
> The tricky thing about Christianity is that there are too many denominations, and every denomination have their own little set of variations. That's why I have to state the "common" answer and can't quite go into the specifics.


What? I know many branches of the religion argue that Jesus was a man with divine powers, or God in a man's body. Hell, one theory suggests that God sometimes just decides to be human for a while.

To answer the question, no, the faith wouldnt be destroyed. It would just make a new branch imo.


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## L

edwardcyh said:


> Because God is light, and you can't really make a form out of light. :biggrin:


How does a beam of light have a sex then? Why call a piece of light a male?


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## L

edwardcyh said:


> Do you believe in ghosts? Demons?


No. UFO stories i dont believe but i do believe there is life out there besides us.


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## Saint Baller

I believe in Ghosts, Demons, jins, genies, and things like that.


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## L

To add to my thoughts, my opinion and view of the human race as a whole is not what one would say "bright", "happy" or "hopeful".


Edit: Im surprised KAS hasnt joined in on the conversation yet. He usually loves religion/philosophical threads.


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## Saint Baller

2dumb2live, how do you think all life came to place and such?


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## L

Saint Baller said:


> 2dumb2live, how do you think all life came to place and such?


Hm... I never really ponder on that topic. To tell the truth, I dont know. Maybe there was really a big bang as scientific studies suggest. Maybe atoms just started to form slowly and then rapidly out of nothing. Im open to many theories on the subject, but the one i dont like is the Creation story from the Bible. You know, the one with God creating the universe and Adam and Eve being created in "His image and likeness". I dont know, i just think its silly when i hear a all powerful being out of nowhere decides to create a universe that will eventually destroy itself due to "His" power or the apocalypse which "His" son will bring.

By the way, despite not agreeing of what some parts of the Bible say, there are some good stories in there, like the one with Adam and Lilith. That's a good/interesting read.


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## Mr. Hobbes

I'm Christian. Protestant, if you will. I'd just like to say I don't care if Jesus was white, black, or Chinese. And neither should anyone else. Because if you do, you're racist.


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## Krstic All-Star

WTChan said:


> I'm Christian. Protestant, if you will. I'd *just like to say I don't care if Jesus was white, black, or Chinese.* And neither should anyone else. Because if you do, you're racist.


Moot point. He was Jewish.


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## Pimped Out

Saint Baller said:


> 2dumb2live, how do you think all life came to place and such?


 i never really understood why this question is meant to prove god exists. people make the argument life couldnt just start one day, and that god created it. same thing for the universe. but whenever i ask the question where god came from or what was before god, the only answer you really get is "god just is." By that same token, why cant the universe just be or life just be? if the idea that before god there was nothing, why does the idea that before the universe there was nothing seem weird?

but the idea that there isnt something more powerful than humans out there that can control something as vast and unfathomable as existence is against human nature (or society or whatever you want to call it).


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## Jet

Im suprised by this topic, because it seems not there really hasnt been huge arguments about anything, so Im not uncomfortable reading this, good job everyone. If you want my imput about 'The Da Vinci Code' I thought it was a good book, I havent seen the movie, but I also havent heard good about it either. Im not offended by it, because its a biased author, no matter how hard anyone tries, your always going to be biased. Im ok with the book because its not what happened or whats real either...or at least nothing has been proven.


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## Saint Baller

Yeah, I like it.


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## xray

I've heard it argued that there could be no "big bang' or other sudden existence from nothing, for the simple reason that *nothing cannot create something*; and I will concur. Along those lines, don't consider it a defect in the Almighty if *HE* has a tendency to overflow. :biggrin: 

:banana:


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## Mr. Hobbes

Krstic All Star said:


> Moot point. He was Jewish.


There are some who say so, but some don't think so.


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## Krstic All-Star

WTChan said:


> There are some who say so, but some don't think so.


The historical evidence is not seriously questionable. There is no serious scholarly dispute as to his Jewish nature. In addition, much of his teachings were reflective of Jewish teachings and traditions of his time, notably the Essene and Sadducee subgroups of Judaism. 

There are indeed people who don't think so, just as there are people who still somehow claim that the earth is flat. Of course they're wrong...


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## Pimped Out

bray1967 said:


> I've heard it argued that there could be no "big bang' or other sudden existence from nothing, for the simple reason that *nothing cannot create something*; and I will concur. Along those lines, don't consider it a defect in the Almighty if *HE* has a tendency to overflow. :biggrin:
> 
> :banana:


 so what created god. did he come from nothing?


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## Krstic All-Star

I Start Fires said:


> so what created god. did he come from nothing?


If God _came _ from anything He wouldn't be God. For God to be supreme, omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent (etc) there could be no impetus leading up to God. He must exist outside of Time - which is the Jewish tradition. Both the Kabbalistic Sefer Yetzirah and Rabbi Moshe Chaim Luzzato held that God created Time, and is unbound by it. To remove it a step - consider that our perception of Time is a linear one, based on subjectivity. A Supreme Being, being Universal and unlimited, would not be subject in any way to the causal nature of Time as we ourselves perceive it.


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## edwardcyh

Krstic All Star said:


> If God _came _ from anything He wouldn't be God. For God to be supreme, omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent (etc) there could be no impetus leading up to God. He must exist outside of Time - which is the Jewish tradition. Both the Kabbalistic Sefer Yetzirah and Rabbi Moshe Chaim Luzzato held that God created Time, and is unbound by it. To remove it a step - consider that our perception of Time is a linear one, based on subjectivity. A Supreme Being, being Universal and unlimited, would not be subject in any way to the causal nature of Time as we ourselves perceive it.


Speaking of existance "ouside of time," this ties back to what was brought back earlier on the tread about God being light and Einstein's Theory of Relativity. :biggrin: Specifically, "clock" paradox would help explain the perception of time depending on the "relative" frame of reference. (I am sure avid Chrisitan Science Monitor have read this 10+ years ago.)

The only difference here is that Jewish faith "held that God created Time, and is unbound by it," but according to the Book, God *IS* light.... which puts Him on a completely separate time-reference point.


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## edwardcyh

2dumb2live said:


> How does a beam of light have a sex then? Why call a piece of light a male?


Light has no gender, but God is commonly referred to has "He" because of Christ.

::: can be debated depending on denomination :::

I am sure you know about the Trinity, Triune, Unity, Triple deities, etc... Of course, these terms refer to the Son, the Father, and the Holy Spiriit. Many Christians today believe all three are, in fact, ONE; hence, the Triune-God. If you refer to 1/3 of the being as "he," you would most likely refer to the entire being a "he."

For example, when somebody calls your name and point to you in a crowd, do you care if the person is pointing at your head, chest, stomach, or legs? Most likely not because all those are PARTS of your being.

Same analogy here....


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## xray

edwardcyh said:


> The only difference here is that Jewish faith "held that God created Time, and is unbound by it," but according to the Book, God *IS* light.... which puts Him on a completely separate time-reference point.


In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (Jn 1:1)

"I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!" (Jn 8:58)


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## edwardcyh

bray1967 said:


> In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (Jn 1:1)
> 
> "I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!" (Jn 8:58)


Amen! :biggrin: 

Right... a "good" Christian only needs the Book.

I, before becoming a believer, had to figure out what happened to the dinosaurs. Of course, now I know! LOL :biggrin:


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## xray

edwardcyh said:


> I, before becoming a believer, had to figure out what happened to the dinosaurs. Of course, now I know! LOL :biggrin:


The best explaination I could come up with as a kid was that He put the dinosaurs here so that we could have oil. :clown: 

Later, after understanding more about the (o)il (p)roducing (e)xport (c)ountries, I figured there was an even bigger plan to start trouble in the middle east. :biggrin:


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## edwardcyh

bray1967 said:


> The best explaination I could come up with as a kid was that He put the dinosaurs here so that we could have oil. :clown:
> 
> Later, after understanding more about the (o)il (p)roducing (e)xport (c)ountries, I figured there was an even bigger plan to start trouble in the middle east. :biggrin:


LOL...

Geez... now you've dragged Bush into the discussion.

Now he's a bigger Christian than any of us because he understand's God's economy.... :angel:


----------



## xray

edwardcyh said:


> Now he's a bigger Christian than any of us because he understand's God's economy.... :angel:


There's actually a lot of info regarding finances in the bible - more than I realized growing up, and some I wished I had known about.  

I could spam the heck out of this thread with links, but some are really insightful - others, notsomush.


----------



## edwardcyh

bray1967 said:


> There's actually a lot of info regarding finances in the bible - more than I realized growing up, and some I wished I had known about.
> 
> I could spam the heck out of this thread with links, but some are really insightful - others, notsomush.


There are even links on God's "oil" economics?

LOL...


----------



## Krstic All-Star

edwardcyh said:


> Speaking of existance "ouside of time," this ties back to what was brought back earlier on the tread about God being light and Einstein's Theory of Relativity. :biggrin: Specifically, "clock" paradox would help explain the perception of time depending on the "relative" frame of reference. (I am sure avid Chrisitan Science Monitor have read this 10+ years ago.)
> 
> The only difference here is that Jewish faith "held that God created Time, and is unbound by it," but according to the Book, God *IS* light.... which puts Him on a completely separate time-reference point.


In Jewish tradition, 'Light' is a tricky thing. Kabbalists hold that the first Act of creation was between God and not-God, known as Tzimtzum (constriction). God created the universe by essentially creating the universe as a separate space (and, of course, creating space as a concept as well). By that interpretation Light is God, and Dark is the universe. However, most Jewish traditions generally hold that 'Light' refers to the Torah, which is said to have predated the creation of the universe. Light is also referred to in that instance as being the actual Light of Creation, being the means which God employed to make the universe. As such, even Light is not actually God, though still sometimes used as a rough attribute. Regardless, being that light is quanitifiable, it cannot in fact be God by definition. (Again, due to limitations being irreconcilable with a Supreme Being) 

So, with that possibly confusing paragraph out of the way, I'd respond thusly: While 'Light' is attributive in many Jewish traditions, it is definitely NOT God in the Jewish tradition. At least not the light as we are accustomed to thinking about. 

Also, God is referred to as 'He' that predates Christianity, as the entire Torah refers to God in the masculine form, with the exception of the Divine attribute (and Kabbalistic Sephira) of the Shekhina, which is feminine, and is another topic entirely.


----------



## mavsmania41

Christain, but look I am a Sociology major so I have learned to lay my beliefs aside and accept people for who they.


----------



## Mr. Hobbes

Krstic All Star said:


> The historical evidence is not seriously questionable. There is no serious scholarly dispute as to his Jewish nature. In addition, much of his teachings were reflective of Jewish teachings and traditions of his time, notably the Essene and Sadducee subgroups of Judaism.
> 
> There are indeed people who don't think so, just as there are people who still somehow claim that the earth is flat. Of course they're wrong...


Yea, but I really don't know that. I'm just saying it shouldn't matter.


----------



## Saint Baller

Just wondering, is any body Hindu on this board? I always wanted to know why their beliefs are that a statue is God.


----------



## edwardcyh

Krstic All Star said:


> In Jewish tradition.......


That has been very enlightening. Thank you.

I may have mis-stated or caused misunderstanding. I didn't mean that, according to Christianity, God is light, and I would never state that all light is God. :biggrin: (That would be a pretty darned big statement, wouldn't it?) What I intended to say was that God takes the form of light....

:cheers:


----------



## Krstic All-Star

^ Gotcha. Judaism is certainly different - often moreso than anyone realizes. 

Nice dialogue. You guys should come to the PE Forum for more in-depth religious threads like this one. (/shameless plug)


----------



## Pimped Out

when reference is made to "god's spirit" in genesis, what does that refer to? it cant be light, because it was on earth before god said "let there be light."


----------



## edwardcyh

Krstic All Star said:


> ^ Gotcha. Judaism is certainly different - often moreso than anyone realizes.
> 
> Nice dialogue. You guys should come to the PE Forum for more in-depth religious threads like this one. (/shameless plug)


lol...

People tend to shy away from discussions in politics and religion, but I think people can really learn quite a bit from each other. I know I have learned a thing or two in this thread. :biggrin: 

Ahem... I'll give you a another plug opportunity. 

Exactly where is the PE forum?


----------



## Krstic All-Star

edwardcyh said:


> lol...
> 
> People tend to shy away from discussions in politics and religion, but I think people can really learn quite a bit from each other. I know I have learned a thing or two in this thread. :biggrin:
> 
> Ahem... I'll give you a another plug opportunity.
> 
> Exactly where is the PE forum?


Ah, another opportunity to plug. Yay! 

In the Time Out Forum, which includes Everything But Basketball, there is another forum, known as the Political Economy. It can be accessed via the bbb.net tab on the top of the screen, by scrolling down and selecting 'Talk Politics' We have excellent moderators and posters who are highly knowledgeable on various topics, including religion. What can I say, I love it!


----------



## Krstic All-Star

I Start Fires said:


> when reference is made to "god's spirit" in genesis, what does that refer to? it cant be light, because it was on earth before god said "let there be light."


If you can give me a particular passage, I can look at the original Hebrew and try to work it from there.


----------



## Pimped Out

well, since you dont believe god is light, i dont think the question is the same for you as it would be ed

anyways, Genesis 1:2

i found this if it helps: http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/c/1157606227-977.html#2


----------



## edwardcyh

I Start Fires said:


> when reference is made to "god's spirit" in genesis, what does that refer to? it cant be light, because it was on earth before god said "let there be light."


I am not exactly sure what you are asking, so I'll take couple stabs at it. Are you saying that God cannot take the form of light because he stated "let there be light?"

Why not? 

Human body consist of 80+% water... does that mean we cannot say, "let there be rain?"

I think I may have mis-understood the statement. Care to clarify? :biggrin:


----------



## edwardcyh

I Start Fires said:


> well, since you dont believe god is light, i dont think the question is the same for you as it would be ed
> 
> anyways, Genesis 1:2
> 
> i found this if it helps: http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/c/1157606227-977.html#2


Great link, by the way.

:cheers:


----------



## Pimped Out

edwardcyh said:


> I am not exactly sure what you are asking, so I'll take couple stabs at it. Are you saying that God cannot take the form of light because he stated "let there be light?"
> 
> Why not?
> 
> Human body consist of 80+% water... does that mean we cannot say, "let there be rain?"
> 
> I think I may have mis-understood the statement. Care to clarify? :biggrin:


 before god said "let there be light" the earth was dark but the spirit of god visited earth before saying "let there be light" so if the spirit of god is light then the earth would not have been dark.


----------



## Krstic All-Star

I Start Fires said:


> well, since you dont believe god is light, i dont think the question is the same for you as it would be ed
> 
> anyways, Genesis 1:2
> 
> i found this if it helps: http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/c/1157606227-977.html#2


True. The literal translation of the term, Ruach Elokim, usually translated as Divine Presence is 'Wind of God' but Ruach has always also meant spirit. The definitive Jewish commentator Rashi (Rabbi Shlomo Yitzhaki, of France) states in his commentary that the term refers to the Heavenly Throne hovering over the waters (that covered the entire earth), which then led to God's declaration/creation 'Let there be light.' (Or, alternatively translated, 'here shall be light') 

Going back to the whole issue of God as light, in which my perspective is clearly different, it should be noted that in Isaiah, God is attributed as He who Forms the Light and Creates Darkness, an expression found in Jewish prayers. (Isaiah 45:7)


----------



## Krstic All-Star

edwardcyh said:


> Great link, by the way.
> 
> :cheers:


I agree. Great find.


----------



## edwardcyh

I Start Fires said:


> before god said "let there be light" the earth was dark but the spirit of god visited earth before saying "let there be light" so if the spirit of god is light then the earth would not have been dark.


I have typed my response and then erased it about 15 times in the past 10 minutes, and I have come to conclude that my brain has refused to let me to be coherent. I shall try to gather my thoughts and give you something that doesn't look to have come from a 3rd grader...

To be continued..... :biggrin: 

p.s. Don't expect a doctoral thesis for a reply either. LOL


----------



## L

:biggrin: Nice to see a healthy conversation on this board about religion. See SB? It wasnt a bad thing that you made this thread!:banana:


Now back to God. Ah forget him, God is a being beyond human comprehension. :clown:


----------



## xray

2dumb2live said:


> Now back to God. Ah forget him, God is a being beyond human comprehension. :clown:


Exactly. 

If you were to explore ancient caves and artifacts, you would find pictures and likenesses of their God(s). With the face of a lion and the body of a horse, for example, they were all fashioned from a creature we have seen.

A mistake of colossal proportions. 

The worship of God is to separate Him ( :angel: ) from anything or anyone seen or heard, for He is totally unlike things below.


----------



## edwardcyh

edwardcyh said:


> I have typed my response and then erased it about 15 times in the past 10 minutes, and I have come to conclude that my brain has refused to let me to be coherent. I shall try to gather my thoughts and give you something that doesn't look to have come from a 3rd grader...
> 
> To be continued..... :biggrin:
> 
> p.s. Don't expect a doctoral thesis for a reply either. LOL


Ok... To comprehend the second half of verse 2 of Genesis, we'll have to start with verse 1.

On second thought, I'll provide links to some archived radio broadcast of Life Study of Genesis from Living Stream Ministries.

_Life-Study of the Bible is a 30-minute radio broadcast composed of excerpts from Witness Lee's spoken ministry that focuses on the enjoyment of the divine life as revealed in the Scriptures. The ministry portions are followed by a discussion of the portion presented, including questions and answers._ (Living Stream Ministries)

A summary of all radio broadcast of Life Study of Genesis can be found here.

Verse 1 and first half of verse 2 is covered by the 3rd broadcast, Satan's Rebellion and Corruption. Click here to download directly.

Once you go through and understand the broadcast, 2nd half of the verse 2 should become very clear. Of course, you can also simply go on and listen to the 4th broadcast... :biggrin: 

I actually came across LSM on a local AM radio station and have found their "analysis" of the Bible very enlightening. I don't think anybody out there dig in the Bible quite as much as LSM has. For crying out loud, there are 134 30-minute broadcasts just for the book of Genesis....

Hopefully you'll get something out of LSM too. :cheers:


----------



## xray

edwardcyh said:


> I don't think anybody out there dig in the Bible quite as much as LSM has. For crying out loud, there are 134 30-minute broadcasts just for the book of Genesis....


Pretty in depth; I still have the Strong's concordence my mom used to break down the original Greek, Hebrew and Latin origins from scripture, and you'd be surprised how many out there spend their lives digging into the "hidden secrets of the Holy".


----------



## Saint Baller

My Aunt says prayer 3 times a day just like we are supposed to, she reads Kahani (A miracle that proves God's existence), I think she has read the Qu'ran twice as well. She is very religious.

I on the other hand probably say prayer once a day, and I have only read Kahani once or twice, I bought an English Qu'ran but I have never read it.

I think I'm a good Muslim, but if I am a 5 and that's good, there are people who are 20's and thats excellent.


----------



## xray

Saint Baller said:


> I bought an English Qu'ran but I have never read it.


There are several translations of the bible. Have you heard about problems translating the Qu'ran?


----------



## Saint Baller

Yeah, the original Qu'ran was written in Sandscript and that was really hard to translate. So there are tons of versions of the Qu'ran, if you goto a religion store (any) and they sell Qu'ran's if you read a little it usually says something dumb, that makes Muslims seem like terrorists. But if you goto a Mosque and ask for a translation from someone who is religious they can tell you the whole Qu'ran by heart and it's a perfect translation. My mom reads Sandscript (I know, weird) and she said that alot of English Qu'ran's make us look like bad people, when in fact, we actually teach PEACE. In arabic the literal meaning of Islam is Peace. Mohd. gave peace to his enemys, when he took back Makkah instead of making all the non-believers convert, he said, "Who are we to judge what these people must believe? For none of us are God and therefore none of us can make them believe what we want them to." So he let all the Hindu's live amongst the Muslims in peace. 

Islam is a VERY peaceful religion, just alot of people who claim to be muslim make it look bad, Saddam him self wasn't even Muslim. Osama had also said that he wasn't a very religous man, hence forth when suddenly he says he is doing God's wish he is making **** up.

Just what I know, I know more though...


----------



## xray

Saint Baller said:


> Yeah, the original Qu'ran was written in Sandscript and that was really hard to translate. So there are tons of versions of the Qu'ran, if you goto a religion store (any) and they sell Qu'ran's if you read a little it usually says something dumb, that makes Muslims seem like terrorists. But if you goto a Mosque and ask for a translation from someone who is religious they can tell you the whole Qu'ran by heart and it's a perfect translation. My mom reads Sandscript (I know, weird) and she said that alot of English Qu'ran's make us look like bad people, when in fact, we actually teach PEACE. In arabic the literal meaning of Islam is Peace. Mohd. gave peace to his enemys, when he took back Makkah instead of making all the non-believers convert, he said, "*Who are we to judge what these people must believe? For none of us are God and therefore none of us can make them believe what we want them to*." So he let all the Hindu's live amongst the Muslims in peace.
> 
> Islam is a VERY peaceful religion, just alot of people who claim to be muslim make it look bad, Saddam him self wasn't even Muslim. Osama had also said that he wasn't a very religous man, hence forth when suddenly he says he is doing God's wish he is making **** up.
> 
> Just what I know, I know more though...


Repped. :clap:


----------



## Saint Baller

Yeah, see does that sound like a man who would go city to city killing non-believers and making them convert?

Nope, dont think so...


----------



## Gambino

guess I got into this conversation too late because I would have a little bit to say.


----------



## Saint Baller

Go for it, speak your mind!

I was about to post in here to bump it anyways lol.


----------



## Dynamic™

I am Muslim and type is Shia.


----------



## L

Gambino said:


> guess I got into this conversation too late because I would have a little bit to say.


Speak your thoughts .


----------



## Omega

im an agnostic


----------



## Saint Baller

What is agnostic?


----------



## Dynamic™

I would also like to know.


----------



## shoop da whoop

Saint Baller said:


> What is agnostic?


I can answer this one.

Agnostic is where your not Atheist nor Christain or anyother religon, because you don't believe there's proof for either, so bassicly, you feel there's not enough evdidence for either claim of their being a god or not because, there is proof other than the bible to be honest. Blah.


----------



## Omega

Saint Baller said:


> What is agnostic?


 http://humanum.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/humftp/E-text/Russell/agnostic.htm


----------



## nffl

Jewish here and tolerant of all religions.


----------



## reHEATed

somejewishdude said:


> Jewish here and tolerant of all religions.


same


----------



## Saint Baller

I like how we have a mixed community here.

And hey, Jewish people aren't allowed to eat pork either. Correct?


----------



## TheRoc5

hey guys :cheers: 

just thought i would stop by and talk to yall about a few things.

1. islam and the christian/judeo God is not the same. The christian/judeo God has the jewish as the chosen people and heck Jesus was a Jew. Musilms are supposed to hate all infindels which would be JEws CHristians ect... the koran teaches to give 3 warrnings and offer the infindels chances to convert and if they dont then kill them by the sword. Christianity teaches no such thing. infact Our God teaches love, forgiveness and peace. yes we should witness but if they dont accept Jesus as your lord and savior(which by the way is the only way you can get to heaven) then thats there deal with God....also my friend wrote this paper 
http://www.rr-bb.com/showthread.php?t=274892

2. i would like all of yall to visit raptureready.com and sign up for there message boards. very very informitive and they can tell you anything you need to know or want to debate.

thats it for now :cheers:


----------



## TheRoc5

BY the way im a christian who believes the bible is 100 percent true and accurate. and i let no man tell me what i can do like a pope and such but i just live by his word and worship how great he is!!!


----------



## Saint Baller

TheRoc5 said:


> hey guys :cheers:
> 
> just thought i would stop by and talk to yall about a few things.
> 
> 1. islam and the christian/judeo God is not the same. The christian/judeo God has the jewish as the chosen people and heck Jesus was a Jew. Musilms are supposed to hate all infindels which would be JEws CHristians ect... the koran teaches to give 3 warrnings and offer the infindels chances to convert and if they dont then kill them by the sword. Christianity teaches no such thing. infact Our God teaches love, forgiveness and peace. yes we should witness but if they dont accept Jesus as your lord and savior(which by the way is the only way you can get to heaven) then thats there deal with God....also my friend wrote this paper
> http://www.rr-bb.com/showthread.php?t=274892
> 
> 2. i would like all of yall to visit raptureready.com and sign up for there message boards. very very informitive and they can tell you anything you need to know or want to debate.
> 
> thats it for now :cheers:


 How can you say that the Christian/Jewish God is not the same as the Muslim God? We accept that Jesus was a messenger of God and he performed miracles, but we do not believe that he is the son of God. And I a Muslim, have never been taught to hate all infedels. I actually like some of the teachings of Christianity and Jeudasim (sp?). Alot of people read verses from the Qu'ran online, but they don't get the literal translation. Lots of people translate it to their biased opinion. The one I have that is english my mom told me that it was incorrect, that alot of the translations were being twisted, how does she know? My mom can read sandscript and that is the original language that the Qu'ran is written in.

From the way you sounded, it sounded as if you hate Muslims...

By the way, if the Qu'ran said to hate all infedals and kill the non-believers, why would Mohd. say that we are not the ones to choose anothers fate, for we are not God. And also if the Qu'ran is a wrongful writing that teaches nothing but hate and violence, why does it refer back to the Bible and the other Holy book for reference and teachings?

Seriously man, your sounding like a hater.


----------



## LamarButler

> How can you say that the Christian/Jewish God is not the same as the Muslim God? We accept that Jesus was a messenger of God and he performed miracles, but we do not believe that he is the son of God. And I a Muslim, have never been taught to hate all infedels. I actually like some of the teachings of Christianity and Jeudasim (sp?). Alot of people read verses from the Qu'ran online, but they don't get the literal translation. Lots of people translate it to their biased opinion. The one I have that is english my mom told me that it was incorrect, that alot of the translations were being twisted, how does she know? My mom can read sandscript and that is the original language that the Qu'ran is written in.


Nice post.


----------



## TheRoc5

Saint Baller said:


> How can you say that the Christian/Jewish God is not the same as the Muslim God? We accept that Jesus was a messenger of God and he performed miracles, but we do not believe that he is the son of God. And I a Muslim, have never been taught to hate all infedels. I actually like some of the teachings of Christianity and Jeudasim (sp?). Alot of people read verses from the Qu'ran online, but they don't get the literal translation. Lots of people translate it to their biased opinion. The one I have that is english my mom told me that it was incorrect, that alot of the translations were being twisted, how does she know? My mom can read sandscript and that is the original language that the Qu'ran is written in.
> 
> From the way you sounded, it sounded as if you hate Muslims...
> 
> By the way, if the Qu'ran said to hate all infedals and kill the non-believers, why would Mohd. say that we are not the ones to choose anothers fate, for we are not God. And also if the Qu'ran is a wrongful writing that teaches nothing but hate and violence, why does it refer back to the Bible and the other Holy book for reference and teachings?
> 
> Seriously man, your sounding like a hater.


hey man i dont hate muslims but i do hate the religion..if that makes any since. i dont hate the person but i hate the sin.

did you read that link i sent you? Christians believe in the God of issac, we dont believe Jesus was a messanger we believe he is God. the trinity..three diffrent but one mind/God. like ice water snow...catch my drift? So JEsus is God so that means theres a diffrence. the day 9-11 happend my sister picked up a koran to read into it. it says the exact thing. not to mention my friend is iranian born but not raised in iran and she can read in just about every middle east language there is. she has koran and she has said its in there as well. and just b/c it mentions the bible doesnt means its good. if anything it just contridicts islam even more.
again i ask of you and every one else to go to raptureready.com and check it out.


----------



## Saint Baller

Thanks, what about you LamarButler, what are your beliefs?


----------



## Saint Baller

TheRoc5 said:


> hey man i dont hate muslims but i do hate the religion..if that makes any since. i dont hate the person but i hate the sin.
> 
> did you read that link i sent you? Christians believe in the God of issac, we dont believe Jesus was a messanger we believe he is God. the trinity..three diffrent but one mind/God. like ice water snow...catch my drift? So JEsus is God so that means theres a diffrence. the day 9-11 happend my sister picked up a koran to read into it. it says the exact thing. not to mention my friend is iranian born but not raised in iran and she can read in just about every middle east language there is. she has koran and she has said its in there as well. and just b/c it mentions the bible doesnt means its good. if anything it just contridicts islam even more.
> again i ask of you and every one else to go to raptureready.com and check it out.


 Wait, how can you hate the relgion, but not the people who practice the relgion?

And your saying you only hate the religion based on 9-11? You do know that Osama isn't a relgious man and has admitted to that, he doesnt even really follow the teachings of Islam.

And if Islam was such a horrid, violent relgion, why would it's literal meaning in sand script mean *Peace* and that the man who revealed the Qu'ran was one of the most peaceful men in the world ever?


----------



## TheRoc5

Saint Baller said:


> Wait, how can you hate the relgion, but not the people who practice the relgion?
> 
> And your saying you only hate the religion based on 9-11? You do know that Osama isn't a relgious man and has admitted to that, he doesnt even really follow the teachings of Islam.
> 
> And if Islam was such a horrid, violent relgion, why would it's literal meaning in sand script mean *Peace* and that the man who revealed the Qu'ran was one of the most peaceful men in the world ever?


now where did you get that i hate islam b/c 911? just because it says peace doenst mean it actually is. i can say i play for the spurs but does that mean i actually do? islam contridicts it self alot. like i said our God is totaly diffrent, you can even read what my friend wrote about everything. 
christian God= Father SOn Holy Spirit
islam god=allah

see what im saying. 

like i said i dont hate the people i hate the religion just like i dont hate christians but i hate the sins they make.


----------



## Saint Baller

Allah is arabic for God, its the same one as the Jewish and Christian one. How does Islam contradict itself? As I said before, alot of translations are wrong, the only people who can give you the true meanings are people who can actually read sandscript and speak englsih.

And know, your not making any sense. I dont know what your saying and it sounds weird to me.


----------



## Cloud786

TheRoc5 said:


> hey guys :cheers:
> 
> just thought i would stop by and talk to yall about a few things.
> 
> 1. islam and the christian/judeo God is not the same. The christian/judeo God has the jewish as the chosen people and heck Jesus was a Jew. Musilms are supposed to hate all infindels which would be JEws CHristians ect... the koran teaches to give 3 warrnings and offer the infindels chances to convert and if they dont then kill them by the sword. Christianity teaches no such thing. infact Our God teaches love, forgiveness and peace. yes we should witness but if they dont accept Jesus as your lord and savior(which by the way is the only way you can get to heaven) then thats there deal with God....also my friend wrote this paper
> http://www.rr-bb.com/showthread.php?t=274892
> 
> 2. i would like all of yall to visit raptureready.com and sign up for there message boards. very very informitive and they can tell you anything you need to know or want to debate.
> 
> thats it for now :cheers:




Muslims are supposed to hate all infidels? NOWHERE in the Qu'ran does it say to hate/kill people of other religions. In fact, Christians and Jews are referred to as "People of the Book" meaning their accompanying beliefs are a little different but they believe in the same God. This "the koran teaches to give 3 warrnings and offer the infindels chances to convert and if they dont then kill them by the sword" is complete utter BS. They only thing it says is if others force their religion and beliefs onto a muslim, THEN can he retaliate. Islam is a religion of peace, forgiveness, and love as well. Islam itself means peace! Like Saint Baller posted earlier, we believe Jesus as an authentic prophet of God and believe in the miracles he performed.


----------



## Saint Baller

Cloud786 said:


> Muslims are supposed to hate all infidels? NOWHERE in the Qu'ran does it say to hate/kill people of other religions. In fact, Christians and Jews are referred to as "People of the Book" meaning their accompanying beliefs are a little different but they believe in the same God. This "the koran teaches to give 3 warrnings and offer the infindels chances to convert and if they dont then kill them by the sword" is complete utter BS. They only thing it says is if others force their religion and beliefs onto a muslim, THEN can he retaliate. Islam is a religion of peace, forgiveness, and love as well. Islam itself means peace! Like Saint Baller posted earlier, we believe Jesus as an authentic prophet of God and believe in the miracles he performed.


 Well said Cloud :cheers:


----------



## TheRoc5

Saint Baller said:


> Allah is arabic for God, its the same one as the Jewish and Christian one. How does Islam contradict itself? As I said before, alot of translations are wrong, the only people who can give you the true meanings are people who can actually read sandscript and speak englsih.
> 
> And know, your not making any sense. I dont know what your saying and it sounds weird to me.


just b/c it means god in aribic doesnt mean its the same god. you know how many gods are in the religion hindu? they call them selves god as well. islam says its peaceful then it says to kill infindels then it says Jesus is a prophet and christianity is not the way, but at the same time go read the bible. theres many more as well if you want me to post them i can. 
last but not least, my friend knows sandscript and knows english...along with a couple more middle east lanuages.
if you cant understand me then go to
raptureready.com
or
http://www.finalfrontier.org.uk/


----------



## TheRoc5

Cloud786 said:


> Muslims are supposed to hate all infidels? NOWHERE in the Qu'ran does it say to hate/kill people of other religions. In fact, Christians and Jews are referred to as "People of the Book" meaning their accompanying beliefs are a little different but they believe in the same God. This "the koran teaches to give 3 warrnings and offer the infindels chances to convert and if they dont then kill them by the sword" is complete utter BS. They only thing it says is if others force their religion and beliefs onto a muslim, THEN can he retaliate. Islam is a religion of peace, forgiveness, and love as well. Islam itself means peace! Like Saint Baller posted earlier, we believe Jesus as an authentic prophet of God and believe in the miracles he performed.


have you read it your self?


----------



## Saint Baller

Dont go into Hinduism, they believe that Statues are their Gods and that has nothing to do with this.

Islam, Christianity, and Jeudaism all teach that there is a One and only God. Also, the quote you brang up, "Kill all infedels" That is only to be done if someone of another religion is forcing you to convert or will kill you if you dont, so as a way of retaliation you MAY fight as the last defense.

And where does it say in the Qu'ran that Christianity is not the way?


----------



## TheRoc5

Saint Baller said:


> Dont go into Hinduism, they believe that Statues are their Gods and that has nothing to do with this.
> 
> Islam, Christianity, and Jeudaism all teach that there is a One and only God. Also, the quote you brang up, "Kill all infedels" That is only to be done if someone of another religion is forcing you to convert or will kill you if you dont, so as a way of retaliation you MAY fight as the last defense.
> 
> And where does it say in the Qu'ran that Christianity is not the way?


in christianity we believe Jesus Christ is God. in islam jesus is a prophet...you cant have both


----------



## Krstic All-Star

Regarding the Qur'an and incitement to kill infidels, it truly is a matter of interpretation. Much as in other sacred texts, there are passages that can be read to mean explicit instructions by God to destroy all who do not believe. The key is which interpretation is to hold sway. When Sayyid Qutub or the like is allowed to determine what it 'says' the result will be detrimental. On the other hand, the Golden Age of Spain resulted (relatively, though this is a major topic in its own right) was in large part due to the policies of the Cordoban Caliphate. When the intolerant Berbers took control, they destroyed al-Andalus with their hatred and intolerance, which in turn led to the Reconquista - which in turn resulted in the horrific Inquisition.


----------



## Saint Baller

I dont understand, I didnt say Christianity is exactly the same as Islam nor did I say Christianity is wrong. All I said is that the main idea of all 3 religions is the same, *there is only one God*. 

But hey, Jewish people dont believe that Jesus was God's son, and thats pretty much the only difference you have with them as well.


----------



## Krstic All-Star

TheRoc5 said:


> in christianity we believe Jesus Christ is God. in islam jesus is a prophet...you cant have both


In Judaism he's neither. Go figure.


----------



## Saint Baller

Krstic All Star said:


> Regarding the Qur'an and incitement to kill infidels, it truly is a matter of interpretation. Much as in other sacred texts, there are passages that can be read to mean explicit instructions by God to destroy all who do not believe. The key is which interpretation is to hold sway. When Sayyid Qutub or the like is allowed to determine what it 'says' the result will be detrimental. On the other hand, the Golden Age of Spain resulted (relatively, though this is a major topic in its own right) was in large part due to the policies of the Cordoban Caliphate. When the intolerant Berbers took control, they destroyed al-Andalus with their hatred and intolerance, which in turn led to the Reconquista - which in turn resulted in the horrific Inquisition.


 So your saying basically what I have been saying this whole time, it's who you translate it. Correct?


----------



## Krstic All-Star

Saint Baller said:


> I dont understand, I didnt say Christianity is exactly the same as Islam nor did I say Christianity is wrong. All I said is that the main idea of all 3 religions is the same, *there is only one God*.
> 
> *But hey, Jewish people dont believe that Jesus was God's son, and thats pretty much the only difference you have with them as wel*l.


Well, there's a lot more to it than that, but it is the brighest line of demarcation, to be sure.


----------



## TheRoc5

Krstic All Star said:


> In Judaism he's neither. Go figure.


really, never would of thought :biggrin:


----------



## Krstic All-Star

Saint Baller said:


> So your saying basically what I have been saying this whole time, it's who you translate it. Correct?


Almost. It's not even the translation - I've read it (slowly and painstakingly with my dictionary in hand) in Arabic as well, and there are passages that can be used as justification for intolerance, regardless of how they're translated. It's not the translation itself necessarily, but how the words are then interpreted and used.


----------



## TheRoc5

Saint Baller said:


> I dont understand, I didnt say Christianity is exactly the same as Islam nor did I say Christianity is wrong. All I said is that the main idea of all 3 religions is the same, *there is only one God*.
> 
> But hey, Jewish people dont believe that Jesus was God's son, and thats pretty much the only difference you have with them as well.


you said where does the quaran say christianity was not the way and i told you, Jesus in God and in islam hes not. enough said.
and no, you said the christian God is the same as the islamic and judeo god..which isnt true.


----------



## Saint Baller

TheRoc5 said:


> you said where does the quaran say christianity was not the way and i told you, Jesus in God and in islam hes not. enough said.
> and no, you said the christian God is the same as the islamic and judeo god..which isnt true.


 But Jewish people dont believe that Jesus is God's son, so they must not have the same God as the Christians either, huh?


----------



## TheRoc5

by the way kristic there are refrences to the trinity in the old testement..you probally know that but just thought i would share that. :biggrin:


----------



## Krstic All-Star

TheRoc5 said:


> by the way kristic there are refrences to the trinity in the old testement..you probally know that but just thought i would share that. :biggrin:


How do you figure that? This could be some interesting linguistic analysis.


----------



## TheRoc5

Saint Baller said:


> But Jewish people dont believe that Jesus is God's son, so they must not have the same God as the Christians either, huh?


they dont believe Jesus was or is God, correct. but the jewish religion is far closer then islam. im very protective over the jewish since they are the chosen people and God will rule in israel for 1000 yrs in the end of times. im a true zionist!


----------



## TheRoc5

i need to get to bed but we will finish this talk some other time... :cheers:


----------



## Saint Baller

How is it far closer? Are you just saying this because Jesus was Jewish? And wasn't it the Jews who crucified Jesus? 

I think I know why you are saying that Jeudasim is much closer to Christianity, is it because the Jewish relgion was brought up in the Bible and since you believe the Bible is 100% true that you must believe that since the Jewish religion is in it then it must be a "real" religion not like Islam?

You forget though if that is what you believe that Islam was made after Christianity and it had teachings of Christianity and Jeudasim in it too.


----------



## Krstic All-Star

TheRoc5 said:


> you said *where does the quaran say christianity was not the way * and i told you, Jesus in God and in islam hes not. enough said.
> and no, you said the christian God is the same as the islamic and judeo god..which isnt true.


Among other verses, see Surah 5 Al-Ma'idah (The Table Spread) section 3, verse 14: "From those, too, who call themselves Christians, We did take a Covenant, but they forgot a good part of the Message that was sent them: so We estranged them, with enmity and hatred between the one and the other, to the Day of Judgment. And soon will Allah show them what it is they have done." See also verse 17 regarding the divinity of Jeses as blasphemy. Translation by Abdullah Yusuf Ali, Wordsworth, Herftfordshire, 2000 ed.


----------



## Saint Baller

Care to elaborate? I dont get it completely...


----------



## Krstic All-Star

Saint Baller said:


> How is it far closer? Are you just saying this because Jesus was Jewish? And *wasn't it the Jews who crucified Jesus*?


Absolutely NOT! The indisputable fact is that Romans crucified Jesus. Not only did the Jews not have power to execute, the punishment itself is both intimately Roman (standard form of execution for traitors and rebels) but that method of execution is not among the permitted forms of execution for Jewish Courts - which in turn never ruled on his case to begin with. There is much more in the historical record, but there is no way politically, religiously or otherwise that Jews crucified Jesus. This spiteful myth has resulted in the slaughter of countless numbers of my people over the last two millennia, hence my immediate and complete repudiation.


----------



## Saint Baller

Sorry about that, thats what I know, as I said.. I dont know much about other religions...


----------



## Krstic All-Star

Saint Baller said:


> Care to elaborate? I dont get it completely...


Basically, it states that the very conception of Jesus as divine is blasphemous, and that those who follow that doctrine are accursed in the eyes of Allah. Essentially, the theme throughout the Qur'an vis a vis Judaism and Christianity is that God sent them the sacred books and made Covenants with them, but that they corrupted the sacred books and abandoned the Covenant - so that Muhammed was given the complete and 'pure' version in order to rectify the situation.


----------



## Krstic All-Star

Saint Baller said:


> Sorry about that, thats what I know, as I said.. I dont know much about other religions...


Nothing personal - it's just one of those false things that gets said way too often, and that I have an issue with. Better that you know now than to never have brought it up.


----------



## Saint Baller

When you say divine you mean that the idea of him being a God is blaspheomous, correct? If so I believe that because I find it hard that God had a son that lived on Earth. And by Covenants what do you mean? Like a deal?


----------



## Saint Baller

Krstic All Star said:


> Nothing personal - it's just one of those false things that gets said way too often, and that I have an issue with. Better that you know now than to never have brought it up.


 So it was the Romans, I'll remember that next time


----------



## Krstic All-Star

Saint Baller said:


> When you say divine you mean that the idea of him being a God is blaspheomous, correct? If so I believe that because I find it hard that God had a son that lived on Earth. And by Covenants what do you mean? Like a deal?


Right. It's one of the instances where Judaism and Islam both find the same thing objectionable.

Basically, the Qur'an agrees that Abraham et al and Jesus all brought God's message, through agreement (Covenant).


----------



## Saint Baller

So basically all three religions preach the same meaning, with one exception from Christianity that Jesus was God's son and is a God.

Correct?


----------



## Pimped Out

TheRoc5 said:


> hey guys :cheers:
> 
> just thought i would stop by and talk to yall about a few things.
> 
> 1. islam and the christian/judeo God is not the same. The christian/judeo God has the jewish as the chosen people and heck Jesus was a Jew. Musilms are supposed to hate all infindels which would be JEws CHristians ect... the koran teaches to give 3 warrnings and offer the infindels chances to convert and if they dont then kill them by the sword. Christianity teaches no such thing. infact Our God teaches love, forgiveness and peace. yes we should witness but if they dont accept Jesus as your lord and savior(which by the way is the only way you can get to heaven) then thats there deal with God....also my friend wrote this paper
> http://www.rr-bb.com/showthread.php?t=274892
> 
> 2. i would like all of yall to visit raptureready.com and sign up for there message boards. very very informitive and they can tell you anything you need to know or want to debate.
> 
> thats it for now :cheers:


 so this is a story of peace and forgiveness?


----------



## Krstic All-Star

Saint Baller said:


> So basically all three religions preach the same meaning, with one exception from Christianity that Jesus was God's son and is a God.
> 
> Correct?


All preach worship of one Supreme Being, but I wouldn't quite go so far as to say that they all have the same _meaning_. Islam and Christianity recognize Jesus as a prophet, while Judaism completely repudiates it. Judaism and Islam do not believe in the divinity of Jesus as a fundamental tenet of faith. Judaism and Christianity deny that Muhammed was a prophet. There's commonality, but not really the same meaning per se.


----------



## Saint Baller

I see, so what do you believe? Do you believe that all 3 have the same God like me? Or do you believe the same as theroc5?


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## Krstic All-Star

As is obvious, my outlook is the Jewish one. In Judaism, belief in One God is the most fundamental tenet of religion. With our dying breath we recite the Shema: Hear o Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is One. So that can easily be construed as the biggest similarity between Judaism, Christianity and Islam. While Judaism does not recognize their specific beliefs, texts or practices as being 'true,' the religions themselves, being monotheistic and non-idol worshipping, are considered to be sufficient to merit a place in the Next World for believers.

To make it simpler - yes, Judaism believes that both Christianity and Islam worship the Jewish God. (Though there are, of course, sects that have different views on it for various reasons...)


----------



## Saint Baller

Yeah, and I have on other question, do Christians and Jews not take Mohd. as a prophet because it is not written in their Holy Books?


----------



## Krstic All-Star

In Deuteronomy, it is written that there shall come no other like Moses, who spoke face to face with God... Accordingly, Judaism holds that any later prophet who seeks to supplant any of the Mosaic Law is false, and incompatible with Judaism. The Torah is the fundamental and immutable text - and nothing can come to detract from its laws. In Christianity, Jesus was supposed to have given the final Word of God - at least until the Second Coming - so that any later prophet who detracted from his teachings could not be accepted as legitimate, more or less.


----------



## Saint Baller

Ahh, so I was kinda correct, no?


----------



## Krstic All-Star

Yep, I just wanted to clarify the fine line there.


----------



## Saint Baller

Lol, okay... I really want to hear some Hindu's speak up, I always wanted to know their "real" beliefs.


----------



## ShuHanGuanYu

Saint Baller said:


> Yeah, and I have on other question, do Christians and Jews not take Mohd. as a prophet because it is not written in their Holy Books?


No, I think it is because part of the teaching is seemingly incompatible with that of Christianity. On one hand you have Jesus, being in essence God and claiming to be only path to the Father. The other hand is claiming that he is just a prophet of God, no more than a messenger, no need for any personal relationship with Christ. These two are not reconcilable. It is almost necessary to claim that the Bible is false to hold a truth that says both sides can be true, which ironically is what many Muslims believe. The teachings, though there are similaries, differ on several extremely important details.

Take Mormons, for example. Christians do not take Joseph Smith as a prophet. That is not because he came later and is not mentioned in the Bible, it is because his teachings do not match up with those of the Bible.


----------



## Diophantos

I'm Jewish but not very religious. In point of fact, I would be an atheist, but I also feel very strongly about being Jewish as a culture and not just as a religion. In other words, even if I don't believe in many of the most important religious tenets of Judaism, I am proud to be Jewish, I try and live by a moral code that resembles the morals espoused by the Torah, and I feel a connection with my culture throughout history.

Haven't read this whole thread, but I wonder if there are others who feel the same way about their religion?


----------



## Pimped Out

here is something i never understand, why do people take the bible as fact and the infallible word of god? prophets are people who are fallible just like the rest of it that spoke to god so if you have faith that god exists and is infallible, you can believe that the message told to the prophets was truth. but as soon as the message is passed to the prophet, can you really trust with all your faith that the message wasnt obscured by prophet and whoever finally wrote it as the official "word of god." Seems like there would be a lot of time for the word of the infallible to be corrupted by man.


----------



## StackAttack

Saint Baller said:


> Lol, okay... I really want to hear some Hindu's speak up, I always wanted to know their "real" beliefs.


Representin'. What exactly do you want to know?


----------



## TheRoc5

I Start Fires said:


> here is something i never understand, why do people take the bible as fact and the infallible word of god? prophets are people who are fallible just like the rest of it that spoke to god so if you have faith that god exists and is infallible, you can believe that the message told to the prophets was truth. but as soon as the message is passed to the prophet, can you really trust with all your faith that the message wasnt obscured by prophet and whoever finally wrote it as the official "word of god." Seems like there would be a lot of time for the word of the infallible to be corrupted by man.


How could the bible be 100 percent correct? how could men just predict everything and it comes true. the bible has never been wrong, its error free with no contridictions. how could men know nothing about that there writtings would one day be all together and it states the same thing. all true!
so how can men do that?
not to mention God said it was his word, for the word is God and God is the word.
http://www.finalfrontier.org.uk/


----------



## xray

I've been involved in a lot of discussions involving the translation of the original to what is now our present day bible, or for that matter, the KJV. 

Suffice it to say that there are many scriptures that even Christians don't agree on. This has led to differences in beliefs and what is held as a stronghold of faith. Savioroftheworld.net, for example, gives many scriptures testifying to the fact that Jesus will save every person, and not doom them to hell. 

This of course goes against the creed held by most christians who believe sinners will be punished - because the bible says so.

Or does it? :raised_ey


----------



## Diophantos

TheRoc5 said:


> How could the bible be 100 percent correct? how could men just predict everything and it comes true. the bible has never been wrong, its error free with no contridictions. how could men know nothing about that there writtings would one day be all together and it states the same thing. all true!
> so how can men do that?


Okay, let me preface this by saying that you can believe whatever you want to believe, and I have no interest whatsoever in altering your beliefs. I will say that reading the Bible literally does present contradictions and factual inaccuracies, which you have to acknowledge if you want people to take you seriously.



> not to mention God said it was his word, for the word is God and God is the word.
> http://www.finalfrontier.org.uk/


And this of course, is not real reasoning, but rather circular logic:
"God exists."
"How do you know?"
"The Bible says so."
"How do you know the Bible is true?"
"God wrote it."
This is circular logic and doesn't demonstrate anything.

But again, I'm not trying to "disprove" your religion or anything of the sort. Just commenting on your logic and statements.


----------



## edwardcyh

I Start Fires said:


> here is something i never understand, why do people take the bible as fact and the infallible word of god? prophets are people who are fallible just like the rest of it that spoke to god so if you have faith that god exists and is infallible, you can believe that the message told to the prophets was truth. but as soon as the message is passed to the prophet, can you really trust with all your faith that the message wasnt obscured by prophet and whoever finally wrote it as the official "word of god." Seems like there would be a lot of time for the word of the infallible to be corrupted by man.


Hate to say it, but it's attitude like this that causes Christianity to be split into so many different deonominations. Also, I just want to clarify that Christ has disciples.

*Please note the difference in definition of disciples and prophets:*

disciple: One who embraces and assists in spreading the teachings of another

prophet: A person who speaks by divine inspiration or as the interpreter through whom the will of a god is expressed.

Disciples help to spread the Word..... via the Book. Prophets speaks the will of god and act, more or less, as "interpreter."

:cheers:


----------



## Seuss

TheRoc5 said:


> How could the bible be 100 percent correct? how could men just predict everything and it comes true. the bible has never been wrong, its error free with no contridictions. how could men know nothing about that there writtings would one day be all together and it states the same thing. all true!
> so how can men do that?
> not to mention God said it was his word, for the word is God and God is the word.
> http://www.finalfrontier.org.uk/



Roc, how were you introduced to God? Your parents bring you up that?
If so, why do you believe your parents? Is it because they believe it?
I asked myself the same questioned. So, I decided to look at all religions including evolution.
Of course, some people spit lies. But I still looked into all kinds of religions. I realized,
what makes Christianity different then all the other realigions? They all have a God. Perhaps,
in a different form, figure, color. But it's still a God with their own stories of what he did.

I decided to live my life as well as I could. Rather then living it for someone I doubt is true.
Your heart could be telling you that God is true. Good for you. But all I ask is that you do 
research on the matter. Rather then going by your friends/parents/relatives words.


----------



## Saint Baller

StackAttack said:


> Representin'. What exactly do you want to know?


 What are your beliefs? I know that Hindu people are Idol worshipers and all, but why?


----------



## ShuHanGuanYu

Dr.Seuss said:


> Roc, how were you introduced to God? Your parents bring you up that?
> If so, why do you believe your parents? Is it because they believe it?
> I asked myself the same questioned. So, I decided to look at all religions including evolution.
> Of course, some people spit lies. But I still looked into all kinds of religions. I realized,
> what makes Christianity different then all the other realigions? They all have a God. Perhaps,
> in a different form, figure, color. But it's still a God with their own stories of what he did.
> 
> I decided to live my life as well as I could. Rather then living it for someone I doubt is true.
> Your heart could be telling you that God is true. Good for you. But all I ask is that you do
> research on the matter. Rather then going by your friends/parents/relatives words.


It's bad form to assume that one is only a certain religion because they were brought up that way. I know of many people in my own personal life that did not follow in their parents footsteps. And that includes me. My parents never went to church. I never went to church for the first 19 years of my life, but that was when I began my research. Now, most of my entire family believes.

Christianity is very different from other religions, because it is the religion that holds that others cannot be true. When Jesus said there is no road to the Father but through him, that sort of puts Christianity in its own corner. You can't just say they are similar because they all believe in a God, the devil is in the details, per se.


----------



## edwardcyh

ShuHanGuanYu said:


> It's bad form to assume that one is only a certain religion because they were brought up that way. I know of many people in my own personal life that did not follow in their parents footsteps. And that includes me. My parents never went to church. I never went to church for the first 19 years of my life, but that was when I began my research. Now, most of my entire family believes.
> 
> Christianity is very different from other religions, because it is the religion that holds that others cannot be true. When Jesus said there is no road to the Father but through him, that sort of puts Christianity in its own corner. You can't just say they are similar because they all believe in a God, the devil is in the details, per se.


You beat me to the punch! :clap:

Dang it... "You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to ShuHanGuanYu again."


----------



## Seuss

ShuHanGuanYu said:


> *It's bad form to assume that one is only a certain religion because they were brought up that way. I know of many people in my own personal life that did not follow in their parents footsteps. And that includes me. My parents never went to church. I never went to church for the first 19 years of my life, but that was when I began my research. Now, most of my entire family believes*.
> 
> Christianity is very different from other religions, *because it is the religion that holds that others cannot be true.* When Jesus said there is no road to the Father but through him, that sort of puts Christianity in its own corner. You can't just say they are similar because they all believe in a God, the devil is in the details, per se.



I know, I should have not responded. But most of the time that is the case.
Most of the time the Bible is given to you. That's why I said parents/relatives/friends.
Not many people discover Christianity on their own.

I don't understand that statement in your second paragraph. Probable a typing error or
forgot to put a word in the sentence. Using the Bible as your way of defending your
faith will not win anybody over. I could go find a koran and read from that as if it were
true. Then, there's nothing you can do about because I would keep refering to it.
That's the same way Christians defend their faith. They use the Bible like the person
they're talking to actually believes it.


----------



## xray

Dr.Seuss said:


> I decided to live my life as well as I could. Rather then living it for someone I doubt is true.
> Your heart could be telling you that God is true. Good for you. But all I ask is that you do
> research on the matter.


The God of the Bible would bend your will to follow him, so no worries:

The king's heart is in the hand of the LORD, as the rivers of water: *he turneth it whithersoever he will.* Proverbs 21:1


----------



## Seuss

bray1967 said:


> The God of the Bible would bend your will to follow him, so no worries:
> 
> The king's heart is in the hand of the LORD, as the rivers of water: *he turneth it whithersoever he will.* Proverbs 21:1



I like the bible. Has alot of great things in it and things we can apply to our life.
I just don't buy everything in it. 

I need to realize half the people here are from Texas. It's either football, basketball or church. :biggrin:


----------



## edwardcyh

Dr.Seuss said:


> I know, I should have not responded. But most of the time that is the case.
> Most of the time the Bible is given to you. That's why I said parents/relatives/friends.
> Not many people discover Christianity on their own.


Of course you should have replied. If you feel a certain way about a certain issue, you SHOULD voice your opinion, especially considering this is an open forum. :cheers: 

As for "not many people discovering Christianity on their own," I suppose I am one of the few. :biggrin: 



Dr.Seuss said:


> I don't understand that statement in your second paragraph. Probable a typing error orforgot to put a word in the sentence. Using the Bible as your way of defending your
> faith will not win anybody over. I could go find a koran and read from that as if it were
> true. Then, there's nothing you can do about because I would keep refering to it.
> That's the same way Christians defend their faith. They use the Bible like the person
> they're talking to actually believes it.


Have you ever talked about re-incarnation with eastern Aisans (Chinese, Korean, Japanese, etc...)? I am talking about people bombarded with the idea of re-incarnation everyday of their lifes via TV shows, movies, magazines, etc... When you are raised in a Buddhist environment, you are bound to be one, and, when a certain idea is questioned, you will likely defend it with your might because it's almost a part of your culture.

Maybe your issue with Christianity is because it's all based on a Book, with a capitalized letter "B." You say that Christians defend the faith with that Book, and I will agree with that because Christians don't have anything else. That's *IT*!


----------



## edwardcyh

Dr.Seuss said:


> I like the bible. Has alot of great things in it and things we can apply to our life.
> *I just don't buy everything in it. *
> 
> I need to realize half the people here are from Texas. It's either football, basketball or church. :biggrin:


Maybe you can give some examples of what you won't "buy," and we can discuss it. :biggrin:


----------



## Seuss

edwardcyh said:


> *Of course you should have replied. If you feel a certain way about a certain issue, you SHOULD voice your opinion, especially considering this is an open forum. :cheers:
> 
> As for "not many people discovering Christianity on their own," I suppose I am one of the few. :biggrin: *
> 
> 
> 
> Have you ever talked about re-incarnation with eastern Aisans (Chinese, Korean, Japanese, etc...)? I am talking about people bombarded with the idea of re-incarnation everyday of their lifes via TV shows, movies, magazines, etc... *When you are raised in a Buddhist environment, you are bound to be one, and, when a certain idea is questioned, you will likely defend it with your might because it's almost a part of your culture.*
> 
> Maybe your issue with Christianity is because it's all based on a Book, with a capitalized letter "B." You say that Christians defend the faith with that Book, and I will agree with that because Christians don't have anything else. That's *IT*!


I meant, I should have asked the question and waited for a reply. Rather then 
saying all that based on assumption. 

I feel that's the same way most Christians are raised. 90 percent of my friends are
Christians. But none of them ever question what they're being teached. Because their
parents are the one telling them these things. So, they assume it's the truth.
I feel that's very blind way of going through life. You have to look at everything
and go back to where you started and say "yes, I believe that" "No, I don't believe that"

Well, I believe the Bible is a fantastic story. With Magic, passion, and dying for
people you love. That's the way I look at it now. Great story, great life-advice. But
nothing more.


----------



## xray

edwardcyh said:


> Maybe your issue with Christianity is because it's all based on a Book, with a capitalized letter "B." You say that Christians defend the faith with that Book, and I will agree with that because Christians don't have anything else. That's *IT*!


Hate to disagree, but what's the saying? Living in an oven won't make you a biscuit? Relationship makes a disciple - or a prophet - not following a set of rules.

*imo.*


----------



## xray

Dr.Seuss said:


> Well, I believe the Bible is a fantastic story. With Magic, passion, and dying for
> people you love. That's the way I look at it now. Great story, great life-advice. But
> nothing more.


And without believing in - and knowing - the Author, there's no reason to believe.

*imo.*


----------



## Seuss

bray1967 said:


> And without believing in - and knowing - the Author, there's no reason to believe.
> 
> *imo.*



And without questioning - and thinking of the possibly that it's not true, you might as well cover
your eyes. =)

P.S. what does imo mean?


----------



## xray

Dr.Seuss said:


> P.S. what does imo mean?


The most important part of our posts: *In My Opinion*.


----------



## edwardcyh

Dr.Seuss said:


> I like the bible. Has alot of great things in it and things we can apply to our life.
> I just don't buy everything in it.
> 
> *I need to realize half the people here are from Texas. It's either football, basketball or church.* :biggrin:


Also want to add that, because a lot of people here are from Texas, that's why the conversation can stay civilized. There are so many different religions here that we are used to it. I work one block from a Bhuddist temple (which I have actually visited many times during confused times of my life). I drive by two different Synagogues on the way to my son's school and work. There is a Muslim temple and a Baha'i temple within 5 mile radius of my home. Of course, this doesn't even mention the Catholic churches, Baptist churches, Methodist churches, non-denominational churches, etc...

Talk about diversity.....


----------



## xray

I've forgotten the number (it's ungodly :clown: ) of churches in the DFW metroplex.


----------



## edwardcyh

bray1967 said:


> Hate to disagree, but what's the saying? Living in an oven won't make you a biscuit? Relationship makes a disciple - or a prophet - not following a set of rules.
> 
> *imo.*


Not quite understanding the disagreement here...

Different denominations of Christians will always have differerences...

*imo*

:cheers:


----------



## xray

edwardcyh said:


> Not quite understanding the disagreement here...
> *imo*
> 
> :cheers:


You said:


> You say that Christians defend the faith with that Book, and I will agree with that because Christians don't have anything else. That's IT!


...and I was saying there is (or should be) more to a Christian's - or any believer's - base than just what a book says. Sadly, I've met many who will argue till they're blue in the face because a book says something.

I'm with the majority on this: that *your life should be based on what's inside you, not just a roadmap.*


----------



## ShuHanGuanYu

Dr.Seuss said:


> I don't understand that statement in your second paragraph. Probable a typing error or
> forgot to put a word in the sentence.


No, there is no error. If someone believes in Christ and his words, then when he says he is the only path to the Father, Christians believe him. That is why I said Christianity holds others as false, because Jesus said he was the only way. I was merely pointing out that major difference in religions.

And that's where the "closeminded" insults come into play against Christianity, but it would be hypocrisy to not follow that teaching but follow Christ's other teachings.


----------



## edwardcyh

bray1967 said:


> ...and I was saying there is (or should be) more to a Christian's - or any believer's - base than just what a book says. Sadly, I've met many who will argue till they're blue in the face because a book says something.
> 
> I'm with the majority on this: that *your life should be based on what's inside you, not just a roadmap.*


Aren't you forgetting "*imo*" at the end? :biggrin:


----------



## xray

edwardcyh said:


> Aren't you forgetting "*imo*" at the end? :biggrin:


I'm not sure; when stating one is "with the majority", it can be concluded that this is an opinion within itself.

Also, since I claimed to be "with the majority" without conducting a scientific poll - or posting results of such a poll - I could be setting myself up for defamation at best, a lawsuit and prosecution at worst.

Should I delete my post?


----------



## TheRoc5

Dr.Seuss said:


> Roc, how were you introduced to God? Your parents bring you up that?
> If so, why do you believe your parents? Is it because they believe it?
> I asked myself the same questioned. So, I decided to look at all religions including evolution.
> Of course, some people spit lies. But I still looked into all kinds of religions. I realized,
> what makes Christianity different then all the other realigions? They all have a God. Perhaps,
> in a different form, figure, color. But it's still a God with their own stories of what he did.
> 
> I decided to live my life as well as I could. Rather then living it for someone I doubt is true.
> Your heart could be telling you that God is true. Good for you. But all I ask is that you do
> research on the matter. Rather then going by your friends/parents/relatives words.


my parents believed in God though never went to church or never really prayed when i was younger, i thought of every religion and every faith. from judeo to evo. and to me its just so much evidence that Christ is God and died and rose 3 days to allow us to be saved by grave. i am 100 percent positive of my faith. i now go to a private school when i was in public school and i have seen how the holy spirit has worked in my life and its amazing. i now go to church on most sundays and i read the bible daily.


----------



## Omega

TheRoc5 said:


> my parents believed in God though never went to church or never really prayed when i was younger, i thought of every religion and every faith. from judeo to evo. and to me its just so much evidence that Christ is God and died and rose 3 days to allow us to be saved by grave. i am 100 percent positive of my faith. i now go to a private school when i was in public school and i have seen how the holy spirit has worked in my life and its amazing. i now go to church on most sundays and i read the bible daily.


 can i please have the evidence?


----------



## TheRoc5

historians will say Jesus did live and he did do mircles in some shape or form. 
then you have the bible, the bible has predicted many things that humans could never even think to predict. the bible has predicted everything correct from the end of times, to JEsus, to what JEsus said to even how the world was made and everything in between. 
all together you have history, a book thats been error free, and mircles that cant even be explained in our history of time. 

Just thought i would through in this thought


----------



## Seuss

TheRoc5 said:


> historians will say Jesus did live and he did do mircles in some shape or form.
> then you have the bible, the bible has predicted many things that humans could never even think to predict. the bible has predicted everything correct from the end of times, to JEsus, to what JEsus said to even how the world was made and everything in between.
> all together you have history, a book thats been error free, and mircles that cant even be explained in our history of time.
> 
> Just thought i would through in this thought



Ok, I'm still waiting for that evidence. 

Historians? It's believed that a man named Jesus lived. But there's no evidence of those
'miracles' ever happening. Also, the end of times hasn't happened. So, how has that proved
to be true? Neither has the begining of time been proved. You just bambled about
what you believe. Not stating any facts whatsoever.


----------



## L

TheRoc5 said:


> historians will say Jesus did live and he did do mircles in some shape or form.
> then you have the bible, the bible has predicted many things that humans could never even think to predict. the bible has predicted everything correct from the end of times, to JEsus, to what JEsus said to even how the world was made and everything in between.
> all together you have history, a book thats been error free, and mircles that cant even be explained in our history of time.
> 
> Just thought i would through in this thought


This seems more of a belief opinion rather than facts.


----------



## Seuss

ShuHanGuanYu said:


> *No, there is no error. If someone believes in Christ and his words, then when he says he is the only path to the Father, Christians believe him. That is why I said Christianity holds others as false, because Jesus said he was the only way. I was merely pointing out that major difference in religions.*
> And that's where the "closeminded" insults come into play against Christianity, but it would be hypocrisy to not follow that teaching but follow Christ's other teachings.



It make sense. But it's still saying "This is the truth, do not question it"
But how can you be sure of your religion if you do not question it? I'm not asking
you to question God. But look into other religions/evolution and decide for yourself.
I'm sure God will understand. :clown:


----------



## cpawfan

I've been trying to stay out of this thread, but I have to jump in and say Evolution is not a religion


----------



## L

cpawfan said:


> I've been trying to stay out of this thread, but I have to jump in and say Evolution is not a religion


I was thinking that.
Isnt it more like a theory and some other things that people might consider is philosophy. I mean, you dont necessarily have to follow another religion if you leave your previous one.


----------



## Seuss

cpawfan said:


> I've been trying to stay out of this thread, but I have to jump in and say Evolution is not a religion



I'll agree with you. Evolution is combined hyposthesis and opinions 
from scientist. Giving people an alternative to look at the world.


----------



## cpawfan

Dr.Seuss said:


> I'll agree with you. Evolution is combined hyposthesis and opinions
> from scientist. Giving people an alternative to look at the world.


There are also plenty of facts involved in evolution. Evolution is still a scientific theory because not all of it is proven, but it is far more than hypotheticals and opinions.


----------



## cpawfan

2dumb2live said:


> I was thinking that.
> Isnt it more like a theory and some other things that people might consider is philosophy. I mean, you dont necessarily have to follow another religion if you leave your previous one.


It is science, not philosophy


----------



## Seuss

cpawfan said:


> There are also plenty of facts involved in evolution. Evolution is still a scientific theory because not all of it is proven, but it is far more than hypotheticals and opinions.



Yes, there are proven facts in Evolution. Alot of hypothesis and facts combined. 
Which they put both together to form Scientists version of how the world
was created and how we got here.


----------



## L

cpawfan said:


> It is science, not philosophy


No, im not saying evolution theory=philosophy.

Im basically saying that if one is looking for something else to believe in, there are more options rather than just religion out there. Sorry for the confusion cpaw.


----------



## edwardcyh

Where in the Bible does it say there is no such thing as evolution?


----------



## ShuHanGuanYu

Dr.Seuss said:


> It make sense. But it's still saying "This is the truth, do not question it"
> But how can you be sure of your religion if you do not question it? I'm not asking
> you to question God. But look into other religions/evolution and decide for yourself.
> I'm sure God will understand. :clown:


I wasn't telling anyone that, and I wasn't telling anyone not to question anything. If you are implying that I personally should question, then I'm just gonna laugh now. :biggrin: After believing in nothing (sometimes agnostic, sometimes atheist--been there done that) for 19 years, I had nothing but questions. It's not like everyone who believes just happen to fall into it with their brains turned off, contrary to what some would suggest.


----------



## t1no

I know, but i don't want to say.


----------



## Seuss

ShuHanGuanYu said:


> I wasn't telling anyone that, and I wasn't telling anyone not to question anything. If you are implying that I personally should question, then I'm just gonna laugh now. :biggrin: After believing in nothing (sometimes agnostic, sometimes atheist--been there done that) for 19 years, I had nothing but questions. It's not like everyone who believes just happen to fall into it with their brains turned off, contrary to what some would suggest.



Was just replying to you. I think all Christians should ask questions.
With an open mind.


----------



## ShuHanGuanYu

Dr.Seuss said:


> Was just replying to you. I think all Christians should ask questions.
> With an open mind.


Why just Christians? Same could be said for anyone else, could it not? Or is there a slight implication here that Christians are close-minded? :biggrin: 

By the same token, there are many atheists who take after their atheist parents.


----------



## xray

If there were the answers everyone is clammoring about, then faith would not be neccessary; faith itself is the substance of things hoped for, and the evidence of things not seen. How can you be a follower, if you don't believe? 

" But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that comes to God *must believe that he is*, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. " Hebrews 11:6

It's understandable for people to have questions, but I believe there is something in us that refuses to let God in. But that's a sermon for another "Sunday".


----------



## StackAttack

Saint Baller said:


> What are your beliefs? I know that Hindu people are Idol worshipers and all, but why?


Because it is our belief that God is everywhere and in everything. We could worship a pencil if we wanted to, since technically God is in it, but, you know, that'd be kind of weird.

And to clear everything up, a common misconception is there's like 40891415893701385715 gods we worship. No. They are all incarnations of the same Lord, Vishnu. The only two that are not his incarnations are Brahma, the Creator, and Shiva, the Destroyer.


----------



## Seuss

ShuHanGuanYu said:


> Why just Christians? Same could be said for anyone else, could it not? Or is there a slight implication here that Christians are close-minded? :biggrin:
> 
> By the same token, there are many atheists who take after their atheist parents.



Yeah, there are atheist parents who don't tell their kids about
any religion. Which I think hurts them and makes those kids ignorant
about religion.


----------



## Futurama_Fanatic

Krstic All Star said:


> In Judaism he's neither. Go figure.


i think that he was a good person. helping the poor aint a bad mitzvah.


----------



## BG7

Atheism is the biggest pile of hog wash ever. Everyone should at the very least be a deist, it just defies all knowledge to be an atheist.


----------



## Tersk

Please stick to threads in which you know whats going on sloth. That bascially leaves you to the Bulls forum and Shakira-lovefest.

I don't believe in god per se, I believe that theres possibly something there but only if you believe it youself. It is real if you want it to be


----------



## Omega

sloth said:


> Atheism is the biggest pile of hog wash ever. Everyone should at the very least be a deist, it just defies all knowledge to be an atheist.


 please explain this to me.


----------



## L

Omega said:


> please explain this to me.


Maybe he means that if you dont believe Shakira is a goddess, you=atheist or hogwash. Thats a lot of people! :biggrin:


----------



## Saint Baller

StackAttack said:


> Because it is our belief that God is everywhere and in everything. We could worship a pencil if we wanted to, since technically God is in it, but, you know, that'd be kind of weird.
> 
> And to clear everything up, a common misconception is there's like 40891415893701385715 gods we worship. No. They are all incarnations of the same Lord, Vishnu. The only two that are not his incarnations are Brahma, the Creator, and Shiva, the Destroyer.


 You guys believe in Idols right? Like a temple with a statue and you go and pray to it? Correct? Also why/how would a God get reincarnated? They would have to have died to have been reincarnated correct? And that would mean they are not Gods because God is immortal...


----------



## BG7

Omega said:


> please explain this to me.


Atheists don't believe in a god at all, no creator, no nothing, just whatever.

Deist believe in a creator god that created the Universe (or the whole of everything, if that expands beyond the universe even), and then just abandoned it, and left it alone, and did not interfere with its happening.

Basically it all stems from the Enlightenment. There were 3 schools of thought. The conservatives, who incorporated religion into science. This was people like John Locke. Then the Deist, believed in a creator God, but nothing more than that, no God interfering in nature. This is like Voltaire. Then the radicals, that were atheists, and didn't believe in a creator god, that the universe was just like that for whatever reason. This is like Diderot. Both atheist and deist pretty much believed in that nature was a god of sorts, not a personified god like we think of, but just a force (gravity, etc.). 

It seems common for deists to call themselves atheists even though they're not.


----------



## Pimped Out

Saint Baller said:


> You guys believe in Idols right? Like a temple with a statue and you go and pray to it? Correct? Also why/how would a God get reincarnated? They would have to have died to have been reincarnated correct? And that would mean they are not Gods because God is immortal...


 incarnations arent the same as reincarnations. an incarnation is more like a manifestation. many people who arent christian or religious believe the concept of the holy trinity (god taking 3 forms as god, christ, and the holy spirit) was actually "stolen" from hinduism and eastern culture.


----------



## Omega

> Both atheist and deist pretty much believed in that nature was a god of sorts, not a personified god like we think of, but just a force


that would be paganism(the nature worship). thus they wouldnt be atheist because they beleive in some kind of deity. 

and athiest=


> both people who assert that there are no gods and those who make no claim about whether gods exist or not


it is possible to be an atheist. how does it defy knowledge?


----------



## BG7

Omega said:


> that would be paganism(the nature worship). thus they wouldnt be atheist because they beleive in some kind of deity.
> 
> and athiest=
> 
> 
> it is possible to be an atheist. how does it defy knowledge?


It wouldn't be paganism, since its not nature worship, its just recognizing nature as the force in the galaxy, basically recognizing the natural laws as the governing factor in the Universe, not some giant puppeteer God.


----------



## Omega

sloth said:


> It wouldn't be paganism, since its not nature worship, its just recognizing nature as the force in the galaxy, basically recognizing the natural laws as the governing factor in the Universe, not some giant puppeteer God.


 well beleiving or knowing that nature is some kind of "force" doesnt mean you beleive in a deity. therefore you wouldnt be a theist. a theist beleives in one or more gods or deitys.

so again how is it defying knowledge to be atheist?


----------



## BG7

Omega said:


> well beleiving or knowing that nature is some kind of "force" doesnt mean you beleive in a deity. therefore you wouldnt be a theist. a theist beleives in one or more gods or deitys.
> 
> so again how is it defying knowledge to be atheist?


Because deist is the logical minimum for belief. Something had to create everything, if you believe there was a creator, than your either a deist or a theist. If your an atheist, and don't believe there was a creator, than how come your here? Of course this will just spin off into unanswerable questions, like what created the creator? What created the creators creator?. And so on.


----------



## Saint Baller

Pimped Out said:


> incarnations arent the same as reincarnations. an incarnation is more like a manifestation. many people who arent christian or religious believe the concept of the holy trinity (god taking 3 forms as god, christ, and the holy spirit) was actually "stolen" from hinduism and eastern culture.


 I think I gotcha, but thats a little bit confusing. StackAttack, care to clear things up?


----------



## Omega

sloth said:


> Because deist is the logical minimum for belief. Something had to create everything, if you believe there was a creator, than your either a deist or a theist. If your an atheist, and don't believe there was a creator, than how come your here? Of course this will just spin off into unanswerable questions, like what created the creator? What created the creators creator?. And so on.


 what if you beleive in the big bang and that humanity evolved? then youd be an atheist no..?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Being


----------



## BG7

Omega said:


> what if you beleive in the big bang and that humanity evolved? then youd be an atheist no..?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Being


Yeah if you just believe that the big bang happened, and then all that happened, you'd be atheist.

But if you believe that a "god" of sort, set off the big bang, then your a deist.


----------



## Omega

sloth said:


> Yeah if you just believe that the big bang happened, and then all that happened, you'd be atheist.
> 
> But if you believe that a "god" of sort, set off the big bang, then your a deist.


 ok so then why did you say it defied knowledge to be an atheist?


----------



## BG7

Omega said:


> ok so then why did you say it defied knowledge to be an atheist?


Because for every reaction there's an action, thus something would have started the big bang.

Of course its useless pondering, because at the very beginning of this chain, there wasn't an action to start it, so its just beyond human comprehension, at least for now, how the entire chain got started.


----------



## Seuss

sloth said:


> Because for every reaction there's an action, thus something would have started the big bang.
> 
> Of course its useless pondering, because at the very beginning of this chain, there wasn't an action to start it, so its just beyond human comprehension, at least for now, how the entire chain got started.



Same thing could be said about God. But I guess he gets a free
pass since he's God. =)


----------



## Omega

> Of course its useless pondering, because at the very beginning of this chain, there wasn't an action to start it, so its just beyond human comprehension, at least for now, how the entire chain got started.


thus i am agnostic....well at least until futher notice :biggrin:


> the opinion that it is not possible to know whether gods or deities exist


----------



## Dynamic™

Speaking in recarnation, do any of you guys believe we will be reancarnated?


----------



## L

sloth said:


> Because deist is the logical minimum for belief. Something had to create everything, if you believe there was a creator, than your either a deist or a theist. If your an atheist, and don't believe there was a creator, than how come your here? Of course this will just spin off into unanswerable questions, like what created the creator? What created the creators creator?. And so on.


I think this was mentioned already, but it is possible that a creator did not make us and the universe. Its very possible that a "God" did, or that there was no creator.
But i agree on this: our universe's creation is and probably will be until the end of our existence, an answer that will never be found.
We can *believe* in all the theories or religions we want, but will we exactly *know* the truth on what happened at the moment of the creation of the universe?
And sloth, there is nothing bad in being athiest. But there are also groups philosophies that believe that there was no God. Look at existentialism. There maybe a few branches of it believe that there is a God, and then there are a few that dont.
Existentialism- In a nutshell, we have no destiny and we make our own path and goals. You can also choose to believe in a faith, or not to.


----------



## Seuss

Dynamic™ said:


> Speaking in recarnation, do any of you guys believe we will be reancarnated?



Nope. 

I don't know how you can. I think that would be the hardest thing to believe.
You can believe that perhaps your soul leaves you and goes to another life
organism. But that's a little far fetched in my opinion.


----------



## Krstic All-Star

Regarding reincarnation, it depends on whether use of the term differentiates it from resurrection. In Judaism, the resurrection of the dead at the end of days is a cardinal principle of faith, but there are different viewpoints as to reincarnation before then.


----------



## Pimped Out

Krstic All Star said:


> Regarding reincarnation, it depends on whether use of the term differentiates it from resurrection. In Judaism, the resurrection of the dead at the end of days is a cardinal principle of faith, but there are different viewpoints as to reincarnation before then.


so some believe in reincarnation before the end of day?


i have a question about reincarnation for hindus. it seems only natural there would have to be new spirits/souls (im not sure what term to use here) to take into account increases in population so where would those come from? are there some people alive right now who have never had a previous life? are new souls continually being created from the brahman.

for people of christian, jewish, or muslim faiths, god is the creator of souls, correct? if so, why are souls created after a biological process and physical act rather than a spiritual act. it seems more intuitive from a religious stand point that life would be created after a union of souls rather than after a union of a sperm and an egg.


----------



## StackAttack

Saint Baller said:


> You guys believe in Idols right? Like a temple with a statue and you go and pray to it? Correct? Also why/how would a God get reincarnated? They would have to have died to have been reincarnated correct? And that would mean they are not Gods because God is immortal...


That's what I was saying. We do worship statues, but (I think, don't quote me lol) the statues are more of a superficial thing, if you get what I'm saying. God is in everyone and everything, even Osama bin Laden or a pencil. Of course, it's weird worshipping Osama bin Laden or a pencil, so we worship statues of the Gods. 

You're right on your definition of reincarnation. An incarnation is sort of like...a form, i guess you could say. Vishnu has 10 main forms or incarnations, the 10 Avatars. Go look it up on Wikipedia or something (might be listed as the Sanskrit translation, Dasavatara). Something interesting, one of these 10 Avatars is actually Buddha.


----------



## Saint Baller

I get what your saying, but it just doesn't seem right to me. It might be that I was raised into Islam thinking that there is only one God and blah blah blah...


----------



## L

2dumb2live said:


> jesus shot a little girl once. Protest.


im surprised nobody protested this. its big news.


----------



## Seuss

2dumb2live said:


> im surprised nobody protested this. its big news.




It does matter. Tupac has shot someone. Didn't effect his career.
Neither should this effect Jesus' career.


----------



## edwardcyh

2dumb2live said:


> im surprised nobody protested this. its big news.


Care to elaborate? I must have missed something...


----------



## Saint Baller

2dumb said that Jesus shot a little girl, since Jesus was a Gods son and killing is a huge sin, that would lead to alot of angry posters.


----------



## L

edwardcyh said:


> Care to elaborate? I must have missed something...


Actually, I wasnt expecting this, but it would have been funny if such comments were actually posted in response-
1) Its another conspiracy theory! She lies!
2) No way! Jesus's time didnt have guns!
3) No way! Jesus's time didnt have guns! They poked people to death with sharp shiny things like swords, daggers, and spears! Oh my!
4) Hmm? Another random statement involving Jesus and/or something else? Protest time! Yay! We finally get some fun around here!
5) edwardcyh's response- Eh, are you sure it wasnt Bunny who shot that little girl?
6) 2dumb2live's response- Nah, Bunny cant hold a gun.
7) edwardcyh's response-[SARCASM]Yeah, sure.[/SARCASM]- or Yeah, sure. *sarcasm smilie:



Wow, im bored.
Edwardcyh's response if he were in my personal forum- I hump cows and i think 2dumb2live, a nets fan, should be moderator of the Mavs forum! 


:biggrin: :angel:


----------



## Saint Baller

Your priceless 2dumb, priceless :wink:


----------



## edwardcyh

2dumb2live said:


> Wow, im bored.
> Edwardcyh's response if he were in my personal forum- I hump cows and i think 2dumb2live, a nets fan, should be moderator of the Mavs forum!
> 
> :biggrin: :angel:


LOL...

You are actually kind of funny............ for a girl. :biggrin:


----------



## L

edwardcyh said:


> LOL...
> 
> You are actually kind of funny............ for a girl. :biggrin:


I refuse to give a good and mature response to a sexist statement. :kissmy:


----------



## xray

2dumb2live said:


> I refuse to give a good and mature response to a sexist statement. :kissmy:


Good enough for me. :biggrin:


----------



## Pimped Out

2dumb2live said:


> I refuse to give a good and mature response to a sexist statement. :kissmy:


 up until recently (a few weeks ago, tops), i thought you had a penis.


----------



## L

I said my brother and i both use this account. I hate to explain it again and again, but its annoying and posters like edwardcyh dont give me any peace!


----------



## Pimped Out

2dumb2live said:


> I said my brother and i both use this account. I hate to explain it again and again, but its annoying and posters like edwardcyh dont give me any peace!


 so which one of you do i normally post with?


----------



## edwardcyh

2dumb2live said:


> I said my brother and i both use this account. I hate to explain it again and again, but its annoying and posters like edwardcyh dont give me any peace!


How, and why, am I in the picture now?

:angel:


----------



## L

Pimped Out said:


> so which one of you do i normally post with?


I dont keep an eye on my bro much, but ive seen you post sometimes so i guess its me(sister)


----------



## L

edwardcyh said:


> How, and why, am I in the picture now?
> 
> :angel:







> You are actually kind of funny............ for a girl.


:raised_ey
Id post more examples but im lazy. And if i know Ed, he would be like Petey and edit all his posts involving 2dumb2live's sex.


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## edwardcyh

2dumb2live said:


> :raised_ey
> Id post more examples but im lazy. And if i know Ed, he would be like Petey and edit all his posts involving 2dumb2live's sex.


How did a thread, titled "Religion" end up with "2dumb2live's sex?"

I'll continue to plead ignorance. :angel:


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## L

edwardcyh said:


> How did a thread, titled "Religion" end up with "2dumb2live's sex?"
> 
> I'll continue to plead ignorance. :angel:


Overruled.



> You are actually kind of funny............ for a girl.


The whole thing started with your comment!

Then I responded by posting in a immature way, because you posted with immaturity!

Then I Start Fires posted something about a penis!

Then I post that the 2dumb2live account has two people using-a brother and a sister!

Then ed says he does not know the harm in his original post!

Then I respond with summaries of previous posts with exclamations! Yay!...........................


Ahem*gets reorganized*.

In short, i am saying that this isnt your first offense and im getting fed up with-"for a girl" statements.
And ed is always bugging me!:curse:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2dumb's prediction of ed's next response:




2dumb2live said:


> The whole thing started with your comment!
> 
> Then I responded by posting in a immature way, because you posted with immaturity!
> 
> Then I Start Fires posted something about a penis!
> 
> Then I post that the 2dumb2live account has two people using-a brother and a sister!
> 
> Then ed says he does not know the harm in his original post!
> 
> Then I respond with summaries of previous posts with exclamations! Yay!...........................
> 
> 
> Ahem*gets reorganized*.
> 
> In short, i am saying that this isnt your first offense and im getting fed up with-"for a girl" statements.
> And ed is always bugging me!:curse:


I plead ignorance. :angel:


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## Krstic All-Star

Pimped Out said:


> so some believe in reincarnation before the end of day?
> 
> 
> i have a question about reincarnation for hindus. it seems only natural there would have to be new spirits/souls (im not sure what term to use here) to take into account increases in population so where would those come from? are there some people alive right now who have never had a previous life? are new souls continually being created from the brahman.
> 
> *for people of christian, jewish, or muslim faiths, god is the creator of souls, correct? if so, why are souls created after a biological process and physical act rather than a spiritual act. it seems more intuitive from a religious stand point that life would be created after a union of souls rather than after a union of a sperm and an egg*.


The soul is eternal, and exists in the spiritual plane until it is joined with a biological (temporal) body. Indeed, in Jewish tradition (Luzzatto, e.g.) it is stated that the soul 'hates' this world and yearns for the world to come, for which it was created. A person's existence and actions in this world determine his or her place in the World to Come, being 'close' to God. There are some interesting tangents to go off on regarding this, but to get back to your actual question instead of rambling, the soul is eternal, and bonds with the body after the biological (and sacred) act of impregnation.


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## Pimped Out

2dumb2live said:


> Then I Start Fires posted something about a penis!


hehehe, penis.


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## Saint Baller

Any Muslim people fasting for Ramadan? I havent yet, but I probably will towards the end of the month.


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## xray

Saint Baller said:


> Any Muslim people fasting for Ramadan? I havent yet, but I probably will towards the end of the month.


I always wondered how that worked out for pro athletes, like Hakeem.


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## edwardcyh

bray1967 said:


> I always wondered how that worked out for pro athletes, like Hakeem.


Most pro athletes start looking like your avatar.... :biggrin:


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## Pimped Out

bray1967 said:


> I always wondered how that worked out for pro athletes, like Hakeem.


 he would always tire out faster during ramadan. during evening games when the sun would set during the first half, he would eat during half time.


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## Saint Baller

Pimped Out said:


> he would always tire out faster during ramadan. during evening games when the sun would set during the first half, he would eat during half time.


 Fasting ends at 6 (sun set) though, and most games start at 7:30, so I'd think he would eat during that time...


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## xray

Saint Baller said:


> Fasting ends at 6 (sun set) though, and most games start at 7:30, so I'd think he would eat during that time...


Yeah, but I remember him being weak during games because - as you said - he couldn't eat all day, then it would be too close to game time to put anything substantial in his stomach. uke:


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## Saint Baller

Ahh, then I guess Pimped Out is correct...


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