# All NBA Teams annonced



## HallOfFamer (May 26, 2003)

*1st Team*

C Shaq
F Duncan
F Nowitzki
G Iverson
G Nash

*2nd Team*

C Stoudemire
F Lebron
F Garnett
G Wade
G Ray Allen

Thoughts? Snubs? No TMac or Kobe

edit: 3rd Team Announced

*3rd Team*

C Wallace
F Marion
F McGrady
G Kobe
G Arenas


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

How the F did Garnett make the 2nd team while T-Mac or Kobe didn't?


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## Phenom Z28 (Nov 22, 2004)

HallOfFamer said:


> *1st Team*
> 
> C Shaq
> F Duncan
> ...


Ghey


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

It's funny. But I think I said at the begining of the year that Wade and Lebron would be better than T-mac and Kobe...and apparently the people who picked these teams agreed :laugh:

It's cool though that the 9th, 10th, and 11th men of our olympic team all made the NBA second team. Take THAT Larry Brown.

Good to see Dirk get love.


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## HallOfFamer (May 26, 2003)

They didnt announce the third team yet, Im still waiting on that..


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## DWadeistheTruth (Apr 25, 2005)

Stop hating on my boy Wade, he should have been first tean all NBA, take AI to second team, and Garnett, should not have been in it, his team sucked big time, and had alot talent surrounding it.


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## Ballscientist (Nov 11, 2002)

HallOfFamer said:


> *1st Team*
> 
> C Shaq
> F Duncan
> ...


Sorry, I only get 4 of 5. I thought TD would not make it.


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## dastrey (Dec 30, 2003)

HallOfFamer said:


> *1st Team*
> 
> C Shaq
> F Duncan
> ...


Switch Wade and Iverson and I agree with that list.


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## sherwin (Mar 21, 2005)

How about a link? Isn't this supposed to be announced tomorrow?


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## HallOfFamer (May 26, 2003)

sherwin said:


> How about a link? Isn't this supposed to be announced tomorrow?


Announced on Sportscenter

3rd Team

G Arenas 
G Bryant 
F Mcgrady 
F Marion 
C B. Wallace

Gonna edit my first post


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## TheRoc5 (Mar 1, 2005)

no tmac wo(on second team)


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## TheRoc5 (Mar 1, 2005)

wallace over yao? what?


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## Carbo04 (Apr 15, 2005)

Wow, these teams are terribly wrong.


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## matt! (Feb 21, 2005)

Iverson should be second team?

I must have missed all those other guys who ranked top 5 in point, assists, steals, minutes. The other scoring champs. The guys who lead their teams to the playoffs pretty much single-handedly. 

The guy won his fourth scoring title, had a career high in assists, and his best shooting season since the late 90's. For people who cry about Shaq not deserving MVP because his numbers declined, Iverson rose in almost EVERY catergory! The guy deserved it this year. Wade will have plenty of seasons to make All-NBA First Team, but this was still Iverson's year, and he played it beautifully.


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## Diophantos (Nov 4, 2004)

Don't get me wrong, I love Ray Allen, but TMac averaged more points, more rebounds, more assists, more steals, more blocks, and shot a higer percentage from the floor. His team won _1 less game_ than Ray's. I can understand picking Ray over Kobe on the basis of team success, but I can't really find a good case for Ray over TMac. (Unless they counted TMac strictly as a forward, which doesn't really make sense.)


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## Captain Obvious (Jun 15, 2003)

Those are pretty bad. It's a good thing they don't mean much of anything.


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## reHEATed (Jun 29, 2003)

Wade deserved second team. Winning team, great stats and great efficiency. I thought Kobe would make second team over Ray Allen. That is the only guard selection I do not agree with. 

At fowards, Tracy over Garnett on second team would of been my selection. And at center, Yao over Big Ben easily.


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## reHEATed (Jun 29, 2003)

http://www.nba.com/news/allnba_050518.html


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## SheriffKilla (Jan 1, 2004)

t-mac over wade for sure....

if t-mac was only a forward than lebron should have been only a guard


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## MiamiWade (Jan 23, 2005)

Way to go Wade. He deserves First team.


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## O2K (Nov 19, 2002)

tmac shouldve got either first or second team, ray allen is up too high and so is garnett.... i want to say nash is up too high but he's mvp


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## Ballscientist (Nov 11, 2002)

wadeshaqeddie said:


> Wade deserved second team. Winning team, great stats and great efficiency. I thought Kobe would make second team over Ray Allen. That is the only guard selection I do not agree with.
> 
> At fowards, Tracy over Garnett on second team would of been my selection. And at center, Yao over Big Ben easily.


I don't think the reporters vote a player based on how good a player is?

It is based on "like or love".


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## HallOfFamer (May 26, 2003)

NO PJ BROWN ON ANY ALL NBA TEAM!!! THIS IS A DISGRACE!!!! :curse:


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## JT (Mar 1, 2004)

i say kobe should be on second team over ray, switch them, and tracy should be first team over iverson (transpose iverson to third spot). otherwise it's all good.


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## Captain Obvious (Jun 15, 2003)

MiamiWade said:


> Way to go Wade. He deserves First team.


Al-NBA teams are based on the regular season only.

I'll join the line of people saying that the Wade hype is out of control. Let's wait until the Heat actually play a decent team before Wade is declared the next Jordan.


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## Diophantos (Nov 4, 2004)

HallOfFamer said:


> NO PJ BROWN ON ANY ALL NBA TEAM!!! THIS IS A DISGRACE!!!! :curse:


Seriously. The man is, after all, a legitimate MVP candidate. These voters need to stop hating.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Seem reasonable but I think Tmac should have been second team ahead of either Wade or Allen


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## sherwin (Mar 21, 2005)

Wow. T-Mac on the 3rd team. LeBron over Tmac? Hahahaha. My God, the hype machine owns the media too. Yao not on any of them? Ben Wallace over Yao? right.


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## sherwin (Mar 21, 2005)

Writers don't watch games, when will people realize this? They catch highlights but mostly look at STATS.


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## Carbo04 (Apr 15, 2005)

All this Dwayne Wade bull**** needs to stop.


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## MiamiWade (Jan 23, 2005)

Captain Obvious said:


> Al-NBA teams are based on the regular season only.
> 
> I'll join the line of people saying that the Wade hype is out of control. Let's wait until the Heat actually play a decent team before Wade is declared the next Jordan.


Haterade


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## Drewbs (Feb 16, 2004)

First team is ok... the 2nd team...

hm... 

Do Lebron James and Kevin Garnett really deserve to be on there? Tmac should have made it over Lebron or Garnett imo. At least his team made the playoffs. Kobe should also have been on there, but the Lakers tanked their season so I couldn't see him any higher than 3rd.


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## Ballscientist (Nov 11, 2002)

Captain Obvious said:


> Al-NBA teams are based on the regular season only.
> 
> .


Based on "some of the voters lack of integrity"


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## Captain Obvious (Jun 15, 2003)

MiamiWade said:


> Haterade


Wade is actually one of my favorite players but I hate to see him become a victim of ridiculous expectations and hype a la LeBron late in the season.


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## boston.us (Apr 2, 2005)

It was quite expected that Wade would make the 2nd Team. No surprises there.


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

I don't have a problem with the teams announced. You could always switch Ray Allen with Kobe or T-Mac, but it's still pretty accurate.


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## Ballscientist (Nov 11, 2002)

Do you think there is a race issue in the voting?

yes, it happens.

no, it never happened to the reporters.


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## The_Franchise (Mar 30, 2003)

I detest the national media. I really do.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Good teams.
THUMBS UP!

The writers have pretty much got it right this year. It's hard to argue with any of their picks in any of the categories. Sure some of them might be unpopular, but they have been the right decisions.


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## TheRoc5 (Mar 1, 2005)

Ballscientist said:


> Do you think there is a race issue in the voting?
> 
> yes, it happens.
> 
> no, never happened.


ya against a chineese 7'6 center lol jk no race has nothing to do with it


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## afireinside (Jan 8, 2004)

:clap: 

Good teams besides Garnett over T-Mac. 

Wade is a great player, but his hype is out of control. On Sportsnation there was a poll on MVP of the playoffs and he had *77%* of the vote. I do believe he is the MVP of the playoffs, but 77% is a lot for an ESPN poll.


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## The_Franchise (Mar 30, 2003)

Dirk making the All-NBA first team is similar to the year when David Robinson won MVP and was dismantled by Hakeem in the playoffs. In this case, it was McGrady who made a fool out of the national media, some of them folks who hadn't seen the Rockets play since December.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

I think they should start doing these teams without taking position into account, just assembling the Top 5 players for this season, then 6-10 for 2nd team and 11-15 for 3rd. 

McGrady got screwed over by being listed as a forward this year, or else he would've certainly made 2nd team over Ray Allen. No big deal though, I don't have a problem with any of the other selections really. Ben Wallace over Yao is questionable, though.


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## MacDanny 6 (Jun 7, 2002)

Mr. Roger's Cardigan said:


> Dirk making the All-NBA first team is similar to the year when David Robinson won MVP and was dismantled by Hakeem in the playoffs. In this case, it was McGrady who made a fool out of the national media, some of them folks who hadn't seen the Rockets play since December.


Just because McGrady out-played Dirk in the playoffs doesn't mean he deserves first team. All NBA teams have nothing to do with the playoffs. Dirk had a great season and his team won 58 games.


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## tone wone (Jan 30, 2003)

what I dont understand is....

if you're gonna list McGrady as a SF; then you have to list Lebron as a SG


and shame those who say Wade should be on 1st team over Iverson


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## sherwin (Mar 21, 2005)

I think the most laughable is Ray Allen on the 2nd team above Kobe, T-Mac.


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## DK (May 8, 2005)

All in all, not too bad. Not terrible, anyway, if I had a vote it'd go like this:

C- Amare
F- Dirk
F- Marion
G- James
G- Wade

With the second team as:

C- Shaq
F- Duncan
F- Garnett
G- T-Mac (counting him as a guard)
G- Pierce



tone wone said:


> and shame those who say Wade should be on 1st team over Iverson


Wade should definitely be first team over Iverson. Look at the stats. Iverson has an edge in points and steals. Wade has an edge in, well, everything else: He was much more efficient (He scored per 48 minutes 5 fewer points, but on 6 fewer shots, 4 fewer threes and about 0.5 more free throws), he blocked more shots, he rebounded more on both ends of the floor, he turned the ball over almost exactly at the same rate... All in all, I think you have to give it to Wade.


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## MarioChalmers (Mar 26, 2004)

Captain Obvious said:


> Al-NBA teams are based on the regular season only.
> 
> I'll join the line of people saying that the Wade hype is out of control. Let's wait until the Heat actually play a decent team before Wade is declared the next Jordan.


Uh... two words: "regular season". Take that *****. :yes:


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## DWadeistheTruth (Apr 25, 2005)

gian said:


> Uh... two words: "regular season". Take that *****. :yes:


Could you go and post D Wade stats, show his field goal percentage, team success, his points, his assisst, the fact he has game winners, the fact his team is number one in the east, the fact that he has more blocks than any other guard, the fact he is in 2nd NBA defense of team, and that the coaches voted for him. The fact he could blend in as a teamate, and take over when it has to be done.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

Pretty much what I expected, except Ray Allen and Allen Iverson should have been 3rd team, while Kobe and McGrady should have been 1st or 2nd team. I would have liked to see Shaq, Duncan, Nowitzki, McGrady, Nash on the 1st team. Then Stoudemire, Garnett, LeBron, Kobe, Wade on the 2nd team. 

Regardless, it's good to see Dirk get his due. 3rd in MVP voting and made the 1st team, that sums up the kind of season he had.


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

That's at best a half decent list. But Dirk and AI are 2nd Teamers at best with the emergence of LeBron and Wade, those I definitely disagree with. Tmac and Kobe being 3rd team is a joke, especially when Allen makes 2nd team. Come to think of it, it’s not really a good list.


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## HallOfFamer (May 26, 2003)

I think they made the right choice with AI over Wade.


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## The_Franchise (Mar 30, 2003)

Franco 5 said:


> Just because McGrady out-played Dirk in the playoffs doesn't mean he deserves first team. All NBA teams have nothing to do with the playoffs. Dirk had a great season and his team won 58 games.


Aren't you same person who fails to acknowledge TMac was even on the Magic last year?

The Rockets have only 2 players who can create for themselves, McGrady and Yao. This was a brand new team that got off to a 6-11 start and ended up with 51 wins. McGrady's ability to distribute for his guards is rather amazing, and he definitely didn't have the help Dirk did offensively. I think it's understandable to put Dirk over McGrady looking at their stats, but it's obvious Houston's slow start really hurt McGrady in this aspect.

Wallace over Yao is a travesty. He's a specialist and an offensive liability, with world champion teammates around him, has a relatively weak year for his standards, and still wins DPOY securing a spot on the 3rd team.


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## ChrisWoj (May 17, 2005)

You know, as a Pistons fan I have to say thank you to the press for overlooking Yao Ming, who definitely deserves an All-NBA spot at Center. 

-Chris.


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## The_Franchise (Mar 30, 2003)

ChrisWoj said:


> You know, as a Pistons fan I have to say thank you to the press for overlooking Yao Ming, who definitely deserves an All-NBA spot at Center.
> 
> -Chris.


Yao's game isn't about his stats anyways. It's about being efficient with the ball and effective without it, things that don't always show up in his stats.


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## reHEATed (Jun 29, 2003)

BaronMcGrady said:


> All this Dwayne Wade bull**** needs to stop.


He got over 400 points with Ray Allen only getting in the 100's. There is a reason he got all these votes, with 35 being first place. There is a reason why some coaches (Skiles for sure) called him the best guard in the league even before his historic numbers in the playoffs. He had a terrific season, not only playoffs. He played a full season at 24, 6 and 5 on 48% shooting on the top team in the east.


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## TheRoc5 (Mar 1, 2005)

no love for vc


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## reHEATed (Jun 29, 2003)

TheRoc5 said:


> no love for vc


im glad they didnt put a guy on the team who admitted only trying half the season. Now if he played the first half with the same effort and results he did the second, he would of been second team over Ray Allen for sure


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## sherwin (Mar 21, 2005)

Stop comparing stats. When will people realize, that the basic stats NBA pumps out don't indicate much. watch games.. That's how you figure out who's good and who's not.


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## reHEATed (Jun 29, 2003)

edit.......I was wrong. Reporters vote, not league executives


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## quick (Feb 13, 2004)

What!? Where is Vince Carter? I thought he should have at least made it to the third team.


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## Vermillion (Mar 23, 2004)

ChrisWoj said:


> You know, as a Pistons fan I have to say thank you to the press for overlooking Yao Ming, who definitely deserves an All-NBA spot at Center.


Wow...he got it last year when I felt he didn't deserve it (over Brad Miller), and he didn't get it this year, when he deserved it.

I'm quite satisfied with the lists. Glad Iverson and Marion were shown love.


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

quick said:


> What!? Where is Vince Carter? I thought he should have at least made it to the third team.


I would actually have put Carter on the 3rd team over Kobe because of the effect he had on New Jersey.

T Mac should have been 2nd team but that is debateable. 

Also there is no way in heck LeBron was better than Dirk this season...Dirk was unreal during the regular season especially before he got hurt.

I am not going to cry over anyone who couldn't get in the playoffs.


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## bankae05 (May 12, 2005)

I think Kidd and Vince were more deserving than Arenas and Kobe.


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## Shanghai Kid (Mar 7, 2003)

Congrats to Arenas for 3rd team. I don't know about Wade and Allen over T-Mac, but I'm glad Allen is getting some love in general since he seems to be underrated.


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## bankae05 (May 12, 2005)

I think Kidd deserved a spot over Arenas because Washington only won 3 more games than New Jersey even though Washington had a better roster and Kidd only played 66 games (Vince only played 57 games with New Jersey and Richard Jefferson only played 33 games).

Kidd had the 2nd best "+/-" in the NBA behind Duncan.


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## bankae05 (May 12, 2005)

Garnett, Lebron, and Kobe didn't make the playoffs but Minnesota and Cleveland barely missed the playoffs. Minnesota finished 1 game behind Memphis. Cleveland and New Jersey finished with the same record. The Lakers finished 10 games behind Minnesota.

So that's why I think Vince was more deserving than Kobe.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

Pretty fair teams.

As for Vince, screw him.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

..

I find it hard to believe anyone is arguing for Vince on an All-NBA team. If he makes All-NBA, that distinction would become absolutely meaningless.

And for Tmac on the 3rd team, that is a joke.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

Further evidence that these post-season awards are meaningless. Not only are voters' standards illogical, they aren't even consistent year to year.

Unless the consistent principle is to draw the teams from a hat every season.


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## bankae05 (May 12, 2005)

There were only 5 players who won Eastern Conference Player of the Month: Vince, Lebron (twice), Wade, Shaq, Iverson.

Vince was February Eastern Conference Player of the Month and was twice Eastern Conference Player of the Week.


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## Air Fly (Apr 19, 2005)

Areana and Ray allen over Vince Carter WHAT? His whole regulare season is better than both. Are these guys joking? maybe Ray allen but Areana over vince? Oh MY God


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

I lost faith in this things, so called awards. No Vince Carter? He played 77 games as compared to Kobe's 66 games. And he carried a struggling 12-24 nets not only to an above .500 record but also into the playoffs, but guess what Kobe makes it ahead of him when his freaking team was *14* games under 500


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## Sith (Oct 20, 2003)

Diophantos said:


> Don't get me wrong, I love Ray Allen, but TMac averaged more points, more rebounds, more assists, more steals, more blocks, and shot a higer percentage from the floor. His team won _1 less game_ than Ray's. I can understand picking Ray over Kobe on the basis of team success, but I can't really find a good case for Ray over TMac. (Unless they counted TMac strictly as a forward, which doesn't really make sense.)


i agree, either t-mac or kobe should make it over ray allen. t-mac is the obviously better choice due to better team record.


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## Shanghai Kid (Mar 7, 2003)

Air Fly said:


> Areana and Ray allen over Vince Carter WHAT? His whole regulare season is better than both. Are these guys joking? maybe Ray allen but Areana over vince? Oh MY God



04-05 season

Arenas Vince Carter
25.5ppg 24.5 ppg
5.2 assists 4.2 assists
4.7 rebounds  5.2 rebounds
1.8 steals 1.4 steals
80 games played 76 games played

Maybe VC should of made it over Kobe, but Arenas was consistently great through out the whole season in leading an underdog, injury depleted team to 45 wins. He definetly deserved it. And hell, the numbers he put up in the second half of the season were very comparable to VC's jersey numbers. If only VC hadn't dogged it in Toronto for 25 games. VC got many easy baskets thanks to Jason Kidd, who was a tripple double machine in the 2nd half of the season and arguably was just as a big of a factor in their turnaround as Vince. You could say Vince was the Amare to Kidds Nash.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Kill all that noise about Vince tanking it in toronto earlier this season, both parties are to blame. His minutes were less and they werent getting him involved. Of course his numbers would be lower when basically they werent running any plays for him.



> You can act like 57 games with New Jersey makes a whole season, but it doesn't.


He did it for 57 games dont you think he can easily do it for a season. The man was the most unstoppable player in the league after the allstar break. You might think Arenas is in the same league with Vince but he certainly isnt. And by the way just for those trying to act like this was the breakout season for Vince last year after the allstar game, Vince's stats were something like 27/5/5, lemme guess he was playing with Kidd also. I dont even have a problem with Arenas making the team, but Kobe over Vince. C'mon!


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## Ps!ence_Fiction (Aug 1, 2004)

Air Fly said:


> Areana and Ray allen over Vince Carter WHAT? His whole regulare season is better than both. Are these guys joking? maybe Ray allen but Areana over vince? Oh MY God


Who in the hell is Areana? And do you really have to post in such big, colourful fonts?

Vince really only played in 57 games this season, and his numbers are similar to those of Arenas. Arenas played a whole season, and had a very good run with Larry Hughes out of the line-up (averaged 30.6 ppg/4.7 rpg/6.2 apg/2.5 spg/39 3P% with 3 3s a game).


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## Shanghai Kid (Mar 7, 2003)

Hbwoy said:


> Kill all that noise about Vince tanking it in toronto earlier this season, both parties are to blame. His minutes were less and they werent getting him involved. Of course his numbers would be lower when basically they werent running any plays for him.
> 
> 
> 
> He did it for 57 games dont you think he can easily do it for a season. The man was the most unstoppable player in the league after the allstar break. You might think Arenas is in the same league with Vince but he certainly isnt. And by the way just for those trying to act like this was the breakout season for Vince last year after the allstar game, Vince's stats were something like 27/5/5, lemme guess he was playing with Kidd also. I dont even have a problem with Arenas making the team, but Kobe over Vince. C'mon!


Like I said, maybe he should of made it over Kobe, and maybe he'll do it for 80 games next season, but theirs no reason for him to make it over Arenas THIS season when Gil was great from start to finish 80 games. Certainly VC was great after the All-Star break, but Gil himself had a stretch where he scored 30 points in 9 out of 14 games, he was a fairly prolific scorer himself in the 2nd half of the season, proving he could get 30 whenever he wanted.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

> Arenas played a whole season, and had a very good run with Larry Hughes out of the line-up


Would you like to compare the washington wizards with the nets, then maybe you could realize who Vince was playing with and how incredible a feat he did carrying that team into the playoffs. And I know he played with Kidd, but who on that team can hit a shot without the attention Vince gets. Matter of fact there was a stretch Vince could have been NBA player of the week every week, thats just how freaking good he was


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## Air Fly (Apr 19, 2005)

Ok but seriously how this nba teams selection work, is it based on individual stats, or team success? if its individual stats, i dont see why Ray allen is ahead of vince, or kobe. if its team sucess, i dont see why KG is in the 2nd team, same for lebron and kobe. i dont get it man, it's really suck


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

Hbwoy said:


> He did it for 57 games dont you think he can easily do it for a season.


That doesn't mean a thing. Wanna know why? Because he DIDN'T do it for a whole season.


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## Air Fly (Apr 19, 2005)

hobojoe said:


> That doesn't mean a thing. Wanna know why? Because he DIDN'T do it for a whole season.


if you compare his whole season stats with Ray allen, he's better so i dont see why Ray is ahead of him seriously man!


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## Ps!ence_Fiction (Aug 1, 2004)

Hbwoy said:


> He did it for 57 games dont you think he can easily do it for a season.


Maybe, but he didn't do it all season.



> The man was the most unstoppable player in the league after the allstar break.


Not quite. I've said this multiple times, but here it is yet again:

*Allen Iverson -* 32.9 ppg/4.1 rpg/8.7 apg/2.8 spg/43.8 FG%/33.6 3P%

*Vince Carter -* 28.8 ppg/5.8 rpg/4.2 apg/1.5 spg/46.8 FG%/43.9 3P%

So Iverson wins in points, assists and steals, while Vince wins in shooting percentage and rebounds. How was he the hottest player in the league if he didn't average 30 ppg.

Vince Carter got above 35 points 6 times, Iverson did it 10 times. Allen Iverson was the hottest player after the all-star break.


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## Air Fly (Apr 19, 2005)

Ps!ence_Fiction said:


> Maybe, but he didn't do it all season.
> 
> 
> Not quite. I've said this multiple times, but here it is yet again:
> ...


well assists dosent really show if your hot, what matter is points and shooting percentage, steal, block and etc come second. look at the 3P% isnt it funny how vince shot way better percentage than AI, even FG% too.


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## DWadeistheTruth (Apr 25, 2005)

sherwin said:


> Stop comparing stats. When will people realize, that the basic stats NBA pumps out don't indicate much. watch games.. That's how you figure out who's good and who's not.


I agree, then Kevin Garnett should have gotten and NBA first team over Duncan if we always when by stats, but Duncan team's wins and KG don't, I think people that have the best records should be though in higher regard. Kobe, not allowed his team sucked, KG should not have been second team, maybe third team.


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## jibikao (Nov 14, 2004)

Arenas carried the whole Wizards when Hughes was out for a long time. 

Vince Carter was decent but he has Kidd besides him. 


Arenas deserves it.. and not to mention, Wizards FINALLY makes it to the playoffs. Give him credits. The Wizards also advanced to the 2nd round.  



I think the list is fine except for T-MAC. He should be on the 2nd team. T-MAC really has a great season and his playoff performance was even better. 


*
Whoever said Nash shouldn't be on the First Team should *edited*. I can't think of ANY PG that deserves to be on the First Team more so than Nash. That PG spot is a LOCK for Nash. *


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

I figure leaving Vince off the All-NBA teams almost makes up for all the years he started on the all-star team over far more deserving players.

And then there's the issue of tanking games...

This is all part of the karma payback plan with Vince. He's going to have to do a lot of hard work still to undue all the damage he's already done to his career.

ps. Lebron is better than Vince suckerz. Muhahahaha. All-NBA like what. And the Nets won as many playoff games as the Cavs did. Eat it haterz. Learn to enjoy that taste. Because you're only going to get a bigger helping of it in the future (The future Conan???).


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

> Arenas carried the whole Wizards when Hughes was out for a long time.


Last time I checked Antawn Jamison is an allstar and the wizards just happen to be one of the deepest teams in the East, carry indeed. You mean he is another shot chucking guard who is lucky to play on a team where he is free to shoot the ball as much as he wants



> Vince Carter was decent but he has Kidd besides him


Didnt Arenas play with Antawn jamison and larry hughes and once again one of the deepest teams in the league, did you even know there were nights that the nets could only dress 7 players.


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

Oh, and how can I forget Ben Wallace over Yao Ming. That might be the worse one. Big Ben didn't have one of his best seasons by his standards (his two great previous seasons), and Ming had by far his best after a sluggish start.


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## IV (Jul 16, 2002)

Hbwoy said:


> I dont even have a problem with Arenas making the team, but Kobe over Vince. C'mon!



Care to elaborate? I can't imagine how you would explain this outside of personal biased towards Bryant. 

:whoknows:


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

> Care to elaborate? I can't imagine how you would explain this outside of personal biased towards Bryant.


Well if you have been reading my posts over this issue its not too hard. 
Vince lead struggling nets team to playoffs, a team that was destined for the lottery. Kobe's team on the under hand was 14 games under 500. Vince missed 5 games this season, Kobe missed 16. Need I go on. And I dont have any bias towards Kobe, I could care less what happens with him but the NBA chooses favorites and thats the only way Kobe made it over the like of Vince and Paul Pierce


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## IV (Jul 16, 2002)

Hbwoy said:


> Well if you have been reading my posts over this issue its not too hard.
> Vince lead struggling nets team to playoffs, a team that was destined for the lottery. Kobe's team on the under hand was 14 games under 500. Vince missed 5 games this season, Kobe missed 16. Need I go on. And I dont have any bias towards Kobe, I could care less what happens with him but the NBA chooses favorites and thats the only way Kobe made it over the like of Vince and Paul Pierce


We're talking about Vince Carter. This guy is one of the most popular player in the NBA. Favoritism favors him. The NBA didn't choose Kobe over Vince because Kobe is more favorable? In fact the NBA didn't choose the teams, the media does. The reporters who cover the games voted for these teams. Plus, you're arguing about the third all nba team, and Vince was the next guard in line. You mentioned the team's performance. Well Jason Kidd contributed to the Net's teams performance also. Outside of that have you reviewed the stats? Kobe's stats are better than Vince's... you wouldn't disagree? Would you argue that Kobe is not a better defender than Vince?


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

I still have not seen *ONE* LEGIT reason for saying that AI shouldnt have been 1st time much less 3rd, but everyone has they're own opinion


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## Blazer Freak (Jul 11, 2004)

Hbwoy said:


> Last time I checked Antawn Jamison is an allstar and the wizards just happen to be one of the deepest teams in the East, carry indeed. You mean he is another shot chucking guard who is lucky to play on a team where he is free to shoot the ball as much as he wants
> 
> 
> 
> Didnt Arenas play with Antawn jamison and larry hughes and once again one of the deepest teams in the league, did you even know there were nights that the nets could only dress 7 players.


I'm sorry but this is just a horrible post. If your going to say that the Wizards were a deep team, than you need to look at their roster. They have Arenas, Hughes, and Jamison. Thats about it. And if you want to use your logic, Vince didn't carry the Nets, because he had Kidd on his team.

Vince needs to do it for a whole season, thats what everyone on the All-NBA teams did, they played a whole season. They didn't cry and tank the first half of the season.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

> thats what everyone on the All-NBA teams did, they played a whole season.


Did Kobe bryant play a whole season? Did Kobe's team make the playoffs? What notable thing did Kobe accomplish for his team this season. And for all those trying to twist Vince's words he never said he tanked with the raptors he said he didnt work hard in the offseason. Two completely different things.



> I'm sorry but this is just a horrible post. If your going to say that the Wizards were a deep team, than you need to look at their roster. They have Arenas, Hughes, and Jamison. Thats about it. And if you want to use your logic, Vince didn't carry the Nets, because he had Kidd on his team.


Do you even want me to start comparing teams. At one point the nets had Jacque Vaughn has their starting two guard and Brain Scalabrine as their starting PF. Dixon, Jefferies, Etan Thomas, Brendan Haywood, Kwame Brown, Steve Blake, Jarvis Hayes as compared to Jabari Smith, Rodney Buford, Billy Thomas, Zoran Planinic, travis best, ron mercer and cliff robinson. Washington not deep indeed! How many teams can lose a 20pt scorer and be able to rely on one player to carry the offensive load, Vince was able to carry the offensive load of the team in the absence of RJ.


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## jibikao (Nov 14, 2004)

Blazer Freak said:


> I'm sorry but this is just a horrible post. If your going to say that the Wizards were a deep team, than you need to look at their roster. They have Arenas, Hughes, and Jamison. Thats about it. And if you want to use your logic, Vince didn't carry the Nets, because he had Kidd on his team.
> 
> Vince needs to do it for a whole season, thats what everyone on the All-NBA teams did, they played a whole season. They didn't cry and tank the first half of the season.


Thanks for helping me out. That dude clearly doesn't know what he is talking about. 

Wizard is a DEEP team???? 

You can argue if Arenas deserves to be on the 3rd team or not but he is definitely OVER Vince Carter...that I can assure you. 


Wizards FINALLY makes it to the playoffs and yes, they do have Jamison but Jamison can't even make it to the all-star when he is in the West. If you want to blame, blame the weak competition in the East instead. 

Jamison is decent player but Arenas is the go-to guy for the Wizards especially when Hughes was down for such a long stretch. Give Arenas the credits he deserves. And nobody says Vince Carter sucks...it's just that Arenas deserves more than VC this season.

I mean if VC wants to be on the All-Team... he could stay with Raptor and bring Raptor to the playoffs!!!!


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## Air Fly (Apr 19, 2005)

even tho i like Kobe, but he didnt desereve it over vince, vince had a better season than him. anyway my problem is how in the hell did Ray allen make it over vince? i dont understand that, that's why i say this nba teams voting is disgusting. vince whole season stats is better than Ray. it's confusing man, how they select the teams anyway can someone tell me? is it based on individual stats or team success?


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

Air Fly said:


> even tho i like Kobe, but he didnt desereve it over vince, vince had a better season than him. anyway my problem is how in the hell did Ray allen make it over vince? i dont understand that, that's why i say this nba teams voting is disgusting. vince whole season stats is better than Ray. it's confusing man, how they select the teams anyway can someone tell me? is it based on individual stats or team success?


Vince had a better season than Kobe when? NOt last season

Kobe Bryant

2004-05 Statistics 
PPG 27.6 
RPG 5.9 
APG 6.0 
SPG 1.30 
BPG .80 
FG% .433 
FT% .816 
3P% .339 
MPG 40.7 

Vince Carter

2004-05 Statistics 
PPG 24.5 
RPG 5.2 
APG 4.2 
SPG 1.42 
BPG .62 
FG% .452 
FT% .798 
3P% .406 
MPG 36.7 

Please show me where Vince had a better season please


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## PoorPoorSonics (Mar 20, 2004)

Allen over Carter is disgusting? You are such a Vince lover that you are blind. As a previous poster said, and I agree, Carter making an all-nba team would be pathetic and degrade the award. Carter's stats were better than Ray's by fractions, also Ray had the better record in a tougher conference...not to mention the intangibles, and the fact he didn't tank half a season and screw over a team.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

> Please show me where Vince had a better season please


There are some on here that will tell you stats dont define a player. I dont even get the criteria for this awards, personal stats or team accomplishments. If thats the case why isnt KG on the first team over Dirk, or why is T-mac on the third team


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

PoorPoorSonics said:


> and the fact he didn't tank half a season and screw over a team.


Is 20 games half a season and once again I repeat he said he didnt work hard in the offseason, thats not the same as tanking games


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## IV (Jul 16, 2002)

Blazer Freak said:


> If your going to say that the Wizards were a deep team, than you need to look at their roster. They have Arenas, Hughes, and Jamison. Thats about it.


The Wiz actually do have a fairly deep roster. Steve Blake and Juan Dixon contributed admirably this season. The bigs Etan, Brendan, Ruffin(_as good a garage man as you can find in the nba_), and Kwame(at times) played well. 
The rest of the perimeter Jarvis, Jeffries, Peeler.... that's a very good lineup. The prove of that should lie in the amount of injuries they suffered this season and still managed to place 5th in the East.


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## IV (Jul 16, 2002)

Hbwoy said:


> he said he didnt work hard in the offseason, thats not the same as tanking games



Then that must be a indirect way of tanking games because he obviously wasn't in ideal shape the first few games on the season.


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## Shanghai Kid (Mar 7, 2003)

Hbwoy said:


> Do you even want me to start comparing teams. At one point the nets had Jacque Vaughn has their starting two guard and Brain Scalabrine as their starting PF. Dixon, Jefferies, Etan Thomas, Brendan Haywood, Kwame Brown, Steve Blake, Jarvis Hayes as compared to Jabari Smith, Rodney Buford, Billy Thomas, Zoran Planinic, travis best, ron mercer and cliff robinson. Washington not deep indeed! How many teams can lose a 20pt scorer and be able to rely on one player to carry the offensive load, Vince was able to carry the offensive load of the team in the absence of RJ.


Uh, maybe you didn't know, but Larry Hughes missed 20 games, Antawn Jamison missed 15 games, Brendan Haywood missed 15 games, Juan Dixon missed 30 games, Jarvis Hayes missed 26 games, Etan Thomas missed 35 games, Kwame missed 40 games, Steve Blake missed 35 games. Did you know Washington had more injuries than ANYBODY except the Pacers? Arenas was the only player on the roster who played 80 games. Trust me when I say that from January on, the Wizards were a complete carry job by Gilbert Arenas. Antawn Jamison is decent, but he's nowhere near the impact player Jason Kidd is, he only made the All-Star team cause Artest was suspended.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

Hbwoy said:


> There are some on here that will tell you stats dont define a player. I dont even get the criteria for this awards, personal stats or team accomplishments. If thats the case why isnt KG on the first team over Dirk, or why is T-mac on the third team


 He said Vince had a better season than him. I want to know how?


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## Shanghai Kid (Mar 7, 2003)

IV said:


> The Wiz actually do have a fairly deep roster. Steve Blake and Juan Dixon contributed admirably this season. The bigs Etan, Brendan, Ruffin(_as good a garage man as you can find in the nba_), and Kwame(at times) played well.
> The rest of the perimeter Jarvis, Jeffries, Peeler.... that's a very good lineup. The prove of that should lie in the amount of injuries they suffered this season and still managed to place 5th in the East.


Blake gave us nothing this year, Etan/Kwame were out half the season. Jarvis/Jared/Peeler are very weak. The only bench player who produced was Dixon, other than that it was basically the big 3 and Haywood, and nothing else. I would say the Wiz have a bottom 10 bench in the league.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

> Blake gave us nothing this year, Etan/Kwame were out half the season. Jarvis/Jared/Peeler are very weak. The only bench player who produced was Dixon, other than that it was basically the big 3 and Haywood, and nothing else. I would say the Wiz have a bottom 10 bench in the league.


You know what started this whole thing was comparing Vince's net team to Arenas Wizards team. And I am not against Arenas I think he deserves to be on there, but to think the nets didnt have even more misfortune is ludicrous. There were times when they could only get 7 players to suit up. They were living off 10 day contracts to just meet the necessary requirements.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

Hbwoy said:


> Is 20 games half a season and once again I repeat he said he didnt work hard in the offseason, thats not the same as tanking games


His numbers as a Raptor:

15.9 PPG
3.3 RPG
3.1 APG
.411 FG%

If he wasn't tanking, then he was simply a mediocre player for a quarter of the season, which doesn't make him a terribly great All-NBA candidate.


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## Air Fly (Apr 19, 2005)

BEEZ said:


> Vince had a better season than Kobe when? NOt last season
> 
> Kobe Bryant
> 
> ...


as you can see vince won the important catagories such as FG% 3p%, kobe only in points but if we compare vince NJ ppg, kobe only wins by .2
plus vince didnt have to contribute more assists since he got jkidd on his side
RPG, again kobe but not by a large margin. Also vince was named player of the month, won two East player of the week, did kobe this year? no. vince had a better year simple as that.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

Air Fly said:


> Also vince was named player of the month, won two East player of the week, did kobe this year? no. vince had a better year simple as that.


Good point. Kobe did not win "East player of the week."

And rebounds, assists and defense are important. I realize that your belief is that if Carter doesn't do it particularly well, it can't be important, but that's not the general measure of importance.


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## MacDanny 6 (Jun 7, 2002)

The Nets were something like 12-24 before Carter came along. They traded for him and he made an immediate impact on the team and they started winning again. Kobe was just getting his usual stats but doing it for a losing team. Why should he get All-NBA 3rd team? He didn't have a meaningful game this season, while Carter was the main reason the Nets made the playoffs.


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## Air Fly (Apr 19, 2005)

Minstrel said:


> Good point. Kobe did not win "East player of the week."


hmm i feel like you underestmating the talent the east have, shaq, iverson, lebron, pierce, wade and etc


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

Franco 5 said:


> The Nets were something like 12-24 before Carter came along. They traded for him and he made an immediate impact on the team and they started winning again. Kobe was just getting his usual stats but doing it for a losing team. Why should he get All-NBA 3rd team? He didn't have a meaningful game this season, while Carter was the main reason the Nets made the playoffs.


 Once again what does what the "team" did have anything to do with what Vince did "statistically" to measure who had the better season


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

Air Fly said:


> hmm i feel like you underestmating the talent the east have, shaq, iverson, lebron, pierce, wade and etc


 Way to go off topic. You clearly are making no sense


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## Air Fly (Apr 19, 2005)

BEEZ said:


> Way to go off topic. You clearly are making no sense


i wasnt off topic pleasssssssssse!!! did your read mistreal or whateva his name is post, he said " yes kobe didnt win East player of the week" what's that supposed to mean ha?


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## IV (Jul 16, 2002)

Shanghai Kid said:


> Blake gave us nothing this year, Etan/Kwame were out half the season. Jarvis/Jared/Peeler are very weak. The only bench player who produced was Dixon, other than that it was basically the big 3 and Haywood, and nothing else. I would say the Wiz have a bottom 10 bench in the league.


You won't find great player to fill up a bench, but the depth of Washington's bench was very good. Blake was able to come in the game and play the way you need a back up point to play. He set up the offense, and could hit the open shot. With Gilbert playing nearly the entire game, Blake would only have to do this for a stretch of 10-12 minutes. Etan and Kwame were out half the season, that should show you how good the team had to be in their absence. And while they were there they were effective within their roles, Etan more than Kwame. Jared played well, I'm still not sure about him. He could be underacheiving because he seems to possess a wide range of skills.... either that or he's just not that good, but he played very well this season. Jarvis is a very good player, we could ahve used him in the playoffs. And Peeler is basically the type of long range shooter every team can use off the bench. All in all that's a good roster.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

> Once again what does what the "team" did have anything to do with what Vince did "statistically" to measure who had the better season


So are you saying Vince was left of cuz his stats werent as good as others on there. If so why is KG on the 2nd team when he has better stats than Dirk, or why are both T-mac and Kobe on the 3rd when they have better stats than Wade and Ray Allen


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

Hbwoy said:


> So are you saying Vince was left of cuz his stats werent as good as others on there. If so why is KG on the 2nd team when he has better stats than Dirk, or why are both T-mac and Kobe on the 3rd when they have better stats than Wade and Ray Allen


 I showed you already in the other thread. Im starting to sound like a broken record


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## Air Fly (Apr 19, 2005)

BEEZ said:


> I showed you already in the other thread. Im starting to sound like a broken record


oh did you say KG and Dirk are tied in stats wise? oh well, what about Tmac, vince, Kobe stats vs Ray allen ha? is Ray allen stats better than them?


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## IV (Jul 16, 2002)

The teams are considered by a collection of how well the team does and how well the player plays. This obviously explains why KG and Dirk have similar stats, but Dirk made the 1st team. Kobe is elite individually, but he team's production was poor, hence 3rd having better stats than last year when he was 1st team.


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## HuejMinitZ (Dec 28, 2004)

I thought I heard this morning that this is Tim Duncan's 8th straight first team All-NBA selection. Did Duncan really make All-NBA his rookie year?


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## IV (Jul 16, 2002)

*He is the best big man in the NBA and has been for a while.....*



HuejMinitZ said:


> I thought I heard this morning that this is Tim Duncan's 8th straight first team All-NBA selection. Did Duncan really make All-NBA his rookie year?


He did. He was all D second team his rookie season as well and made 1st team ever year until last year when he was named second team. Either way, it's impressive because he's made all nba every year on his career. :yes:


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## VTRapsfan (Dec 5, 2004)

Hate to toot my own horn but...




> 1st
> G Steve Nash
> G Allen Iverson
> C Shaquille O'Neal
> ...


That was from the "SI's All-NBA Teams" thread.
If they switched Kobe with Ray Allen, and had Yao on the 3rd team, I would have been perfect! :curse: 
Leaving Yao off the teams has no justification whatsoever. The voters probably just gave it to Big Ben becuase they didn't want to leave the DPOY off the All-NBA Teams. Stupid. Other than that, I don't really have a problem with the teams. Carter could have made it, but leaving him off isn't a travesty like leaving Yao off.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

HuejMinitZ said:


> I thought I heard this morning that this is Tim Duncan's 8th straight first team All-NBA selection. Did Duncan really make All-NBA his rookie year?


Yeah. Duncan went to Wake Forest for four years, which is almost unheard of nowadays, so he came in as an MVP candidate right away. I believe only Larry Bird, Bob Petitt and Oscar Robertson have done what Duncan has, in terms of making 1st teams every year. Duncan takes it further with his defensive team accomplishments. It's pretty amazing really.


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## s a b a s 11 (Dec 31, 2002)

*Minstrel's Humour... very complex*



Air Fly said:


> i wasnt off topic pleasssssssssse!!! did your read mistreal or whateva his name is post, he said " yes kobe didnt win East player of the week" what's that supposed to mean ha?


It means that Kobe plays for the Western Conference.

Is this thing on?

Stuart


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## Phenom Z28 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: Minstrel's Humour... very complex*



MiamiWade said:


> Way to go Wade. He deserves First team.





DWadeistheTruth said:


> Stop hating on my boy Wade, he should have been first tean all NBA, take AI to second team, and Garnett, should not have been in it, his team sucked big time, and had alot talent surrounding it.





wadeshaqeddie said:


> Wade deserved second team. Winning team, great stats and great efficiency. I thought Kobe would make second team over Ray Allen. That is the only guard selection I do not agree with.
> 
> At fowards, Tracy over Garnett on second team would of been my selection. And at center, Yao over Big Ben easily.


Notice 90% of the people who think Wade was deserving of his spot on the 2nd team have "Wade" in their SN's? Gee, no homerism in this thread!


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## reHEATed (Jun 29, 2003)

*Re: Minstrel's Humour... very complex*



PHeNoM Z28 said:


> Notice 90% of the people who think Wade was deserving of his spot on the 2nd team have "Wade" in their SN's? Gee, no homerism in this thread!


most fans and people think Wade deserves his spot. That is why he was about 300 points higher than the other guard on the second team, and about 350 higher then people like Vince, who for some reason you think should be on the team while actually playing only half the year. 

24 ppg
5 rpg
7 apg
48% 
most blocks out of any guard in the nba. 1.6 spg. Second team all defense
on a 59 win team. 

and just to make a point


Sir Patchwork said:


> Pretty much what I expected, except Ray Allen and Allen Iverson should have been 3rd team, while Kobe and McGrady should have been 1st or 2nd team. I would have liked to see Shaq, Duncan, Nowitzki, McGrady, Nash on the 1st team. Then Stoudemire, Garnett, LeBron, Kobe, Wade on the 2nd team.
> 
> Regardless, it's good to see Dirk get his due. 3rd in MVP voting and made the 1st team, that sums up the kind of season he had.





EHL said:


> That's at best a half decent list. But Dirk and AI are 2nd Teamers at best with the emergence of LeBron and Wade, those I definitely disagree with. Tmac and Kobe being 3rd team is a joke, especially when Allen makes 2nd team. Come to think of it, it’s not really a good list.





boston.us said:


> It was quite expected that Wade would make the 2nd Team. No surprises there.





Pacers Fan said:


> I don't have a problem with the teams announced. You could always switch Ray Allen with Kobe or T-Mac, but it's still pretty accurate.





futuristxen said:


> Good teams.
> THUMBS UP!
> 
> The writers have pretty much got it right this year. It's hard to argue with any of their picks in any of the categories. Sure some of them might be unpopular, but they have been the right decisions.





DK said:


> All in all, not too bad. Not terrible, anyway, if I had a vote it'd go like this:
> 
> C- Amare
> F- Dirk
> ...


yea. 90% of the people who said they agreed with the wade selection are heat fans. Good calculations I must say. And most of the people who argued against wade in this thread were arguing against him possibly making first team over Iverson. Only 1 other person and you are actually denying his deserved spot on the second team. Remember, Tmac was listed as a foward, not a guard, and even if he was a guard he would of been second team over Ray Allen, not Wade. And Vince had a worst season statistically then wade and wade was a co leader of the best team in the east. Also, I dont think voters like a guy who obviously didnt try the first half of the season


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

*Re: Minstrel's Humour... very complex*



s a b a s 11 said:


> It means that Kobe plays for the Western Conference.


Nailed it. What does he win?

The chance to be locked in a windowless room with kflo, neither of you allowed out until you both agree on Sabonis' place among great centers of all-time or until one of you dies.

:cheers:


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

*Re: Minstrel's Humour... very complex*



Minstrel said:


> The chance to be locked in a windowless room with kflo, neither of you allowed out until you both agree on Sabonis' place among great centers of all-time or until one of you dies.


That's a copout. It should be until both of them die.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

once again 20 games does not mean half a season.


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## Air Fly (Apr 19, 2005)

*Re: Minstrel's Humour... very complex*



s a b a s 11 said:


> It means that Kobe plays for the Western Conference.
> 
> Is this thing on?
> 
> Stuart


well he didnt win western player of the month or player of the week either. That dosent matter anyway. Individual stats, Ray over Vince? team success, Kobe over vince? that's crazy,


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

*Re: Minstrel's Humour... very complex*



Air Fly said:


> well he didnt win western player of the month or player of the week either. That dosent matter anyway. Individual stats, Ray over Vince? team success, Kobe over vince? that's crazy,


 It means that Ray Allen and Kobe Bryant had a better season from start to finish. You could argue over the LAST 20 games that VC should have made 1st team All-NBA. From start to finish though VC didn't have the season Ray Allen and Kobe Bryant did


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## Air Fly (Apr 19, 2005)

*Re: Minstrel's Humour... very complex*



Pioneer10 said:


> It means that Ray Allen and Kobe Bryant had a better season from start to finish. You could argue over the LAST 20 games that VC should have made 1st team All-NBA. From start to finish though VC didn't have the season Ray Allen and Kobe Bryant did


Read my questions mannn...........compare the freaking VC whole season stats with Ray, vince still win. Compare it with kobe, kobe wins but not by a large margin. i also said if u base it on team success kobe shouldnt make it over vince, and what the hell does 20 games vince had with the raptors have to do with NJ making the playoff?


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## s a b a s 11 (Dec 31, 2002)

*Re: Minstrel's Humour... very complex*



Minstrel said:


> The chance to be locked in a windowless room with kflo, neither of you allowed out until you both agree on Sabonis' place among great centers of all-time or until one of you dies.


Windowless? You have no heart.



Sir Patchwork said:


> That's a copout. It should be until both of them die.


If it's between kflo and I agreeing on that particular subject, it *will* come to the conclusion you prefer, sir.

:wave: hi kflo!

Stuart


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## cpawfan (Jun 20, 2004)

*Re: Minstrel's Humour... very complex*

Since the Vince fans out in force in this thread as well, I will repost my responses from the Nets forum:

You can't count Vince's stats for just his time in NJ. If you want to do that, then I say we take the best 57 games (or what ever the number of games Vince played in NJ was) of Ray, Kobe, TMac & Wade and compare them to Vince's time in New Jersey.

...

What is so hard to understand about looking at both individual stats and impact on ones team?

And before anyone says Vince impacted the Nets, lets really look at this. 

1) If Vince gets positive points for impacting the Nets, then he gets a greater number of negative points for hurting the Raptors. If he is capable of putting up the numbers he did for the Nets without help, then he killed the Raptors.

2) It appears that the Nets had a greater impact on Vince then he had on them. Vince came to a team with an amazing point guard and a need for a scorer after a talent purge during the summer. Suddenly after Kidd's foot lands on Vince's ***, Vince is playing at a high level.

3) Yes Frank did say something about the Nets only being a 20 win team without Vince, but you need to take that statement in context. The Nets lost their leading scorer thanks to the Pistons, so if Vince wasn't a Net, there wouldn't have been anyone to score on a constitent basis.

...



Air Fly said:


> just what i thought, people would always come up with lame excuses to discredit vince. Jkidd had the big impact bla bla bla, vince tanked it in Toronto bla bla bla. God have mercy


Actually, it appears the reverse is true. Vince fans aren't happy, so they are attempting to cover up his blemishes by focusing on small things.

Also, please don't over value player of the month awards. Kenyon Martin was the Eastern Conference player of the month in February of 2004. Must just be something about the Nets and February.


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## Bron_Melo_ROY (Apr 12, 2004)

I don't know how KG made the 2nd Team while T-Mac is on the 3rd team.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

> 1) If Vince gets positive points for impacting the Nets, then he gets a greater number of negative points for hurting the Raptors. If he is capable of putting up the numbers he did for the Nets without help, then he killed the Raptors.


You do understand that firstly the raps werent running any plays for Vince and secondly his minutes were down he was only playing like 30 a game. It wasnt hard to see that the raps were also going in a different direction. And I dont know how many times I will say this Vince was 7th leading scorer in the NBA last season, 23/5/5 sounds pretty good to me on a team that struggled to put up 80points every night. And didnt he average like 27/5/5 after the allstar break last season. 



> 2) It appears that the Nets had a greater impact on Vince then he had on them. Vince came to a team with an amazing point guard and a need for a scorer after a talent purge during the summer. Suddenly after Kidd's foot lands on Vince's ***, Vince is playing at a high level.


Wow did I just read this right, the nets had a bigger impact on Vince than he did on them. Before people start running crazy with this whole Kidd changed Vince, I am pretty sure whatever team that got Vince right now would get the same effects, the man said he needed a change of scenery and he was willing to redeem his image around the NBA. He woulda busted his backside for any team he was traded to. Dont get me wrong, Kidd is a great leader but Vince woulda played just as hard on any other team he was traded to.



> 3) Yes Frank did say something about the Nets only being a 20 win team without Vince, but you need to take that statement in context. The Nets lost their leading scorer thanks to the Pistons, so if Vince wasn't a Net, there wouldn't have been anyone to score on a constitent basis.


Does this still change the fact that without Vince the nets would be among the top 5 lottery teams right now.



> Actually, it appears the reverse is true. Vince fans aren't happy, so they are attempting to cover up his blemishes by focusing on small things.


I will admit there are some delusional Vince fans out there, but fans like me have put up with this Vince bashing for quite a while now so its not new to see the man get no credit for the amazing season he had. Its alright though, he proved quite a few sceptics wrong this season, and I dont think he is about to stop either


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