# Why is Telfair "overrated"?



## Eagles in 2003 (Jul 18, 2002)

I've been reading alot recently, that people believe Sebastian Telfair is overrated. I have little doubt that he'll turn out to be a fine player in the NBA. His vision and passing ability are amazing and he's got sick handles. The main question is his jump shot. Sure, it isn't consistent, but its not as bad as everyone makes it seem. The kid shot 50% from the field this year, and averaged 30 a game. in a tough basketball city. In the all star games he showed that he can control a game while having a rough shooting night, something a true point guard can do. He had rough performances in the Hoops Summit and The McDonalds game, but i dont see why that should tarnish his reputation. He may have been overhyped while he was very young but you can't blame him for coming out early. I've seen games where Telfair was draining shots, including games against Dwight Howard's team and Darius Washington's team. He drained a 3 at the buzzer to beat Howard's squad. Im just curius what you all think about the overrated labels already. 

If anyone, in my opinion is overrated, its Shaun Livingston. He has weak high school stats and his jumper isn't exactly on all the time. Im guessing its his height that puts him ahead of all the other pgs in the draft, but i just don't see a pro prosect in that guy right now.


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## Seanzie (Jun 9, 2003)

The fact is, the game is getting bigger, and Telfair just isn't that big. Aside from that, a lot of people think that Telfair is a one trick pony. He tries to break your ankles and then take it to the hoop. That won't always work in the NBA. You have to have a consistent jump shot as well.


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## T.Shock (Feb 11, 2003)

Telfair lacks the jump shot, the height, the strength, and the game sense to be anything but a poor man's Jamaal Tinsley. A year or two down in Louisville would've helped him so much.


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## Hawks4ever (Jun 6, 2002)

The game sense? To me that is what he has going for him, the natural instincts of the game. That and his quickness and his handling and his court vision and his leadership


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>T.Shock</b>!
> Telfair lacks the jump shot, the height, the strength, and the game sense to be anything but a poor man's Jamaal Tinsley. A year or two down in Louisville would've helped him so much.


I could see the jump shot arguement(though like has been said, it's really not a bad jump shot, he will most likely become a better shooter as he gets older, like most players do) and I can see the height arguement(though there are plenty of small point guards, it's the one position you can be small at and be successfull at regardless)...but strength and game sense? How much bigger do you want a point guard coming into the league? He looks pretty cut to me for his body type. The NBA point guard position does not require a ton of upper body strength to play. There's only a handful of point guards who post up(Gary Payton, sometimes Jason Kidd...um....)....and then you complain about his game sense? His game sense is his strongest asset. He controlled the hoops summit game without scoring, and like barkley and Jordan have said on TNT, great players can help their team when their offensive game isn't going...

I think Telfair is getting backlash to his hype. He's going to really suprise people who have been so down on him.


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## Kezersoze (Mar 3, 2004)

The thing about Telfair is his games arent on espn like lebron were so everyone can judge for themselves. Hell his people can say whatever they want about him and some people on this board will believe. I personally have heard alot of conflicting stories about this guy, some say he as amazing handles/courtvision while others say he can't take contact well, has inconsistent jumper, and is not super fast. There have been alot of scouts and Gms lately doubting Telfairs abilities as well. how can Telfair even last an entire 82 game season at 5'10 165?. Shaun Livingston is kinda overrated too, this guy needs 20lbs to be reggie miller/rip hamilton size. Shaun would get manhandled by most college players let alone nba players. Shaun is not half the athlete that Anfernee Hardaway ways when he came into the league.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Kezersoze</b>!
> how can Telfair even last an entire 82 game season at 5'10 165?.



Because he has a very very great work ethic and there are plenty that do it in the league at that size. Not a pretty strong argument if you ask me


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## Kezersoze (Mar 3, 2004)

how many of those guys start? most players that start under 6ft tend to be plagued with alot of injury problems.


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## 22ryno (Mar 17, 2003)

Telfair has a Jason Kidd like sense on the court. He makes everyone around him better. His jumpshot is not that bad either. He had a bad shooting game in the Hoops Summitt. In the McDonalds game he was advised to control the game and because he wasn't jacking up shots(ala JR Smith) he was criticized. For those who really are experts take tapes of this years games like the Edgewater game which was on TV. His shot is pretty textbook and often found the bottom of the net. Although I believe he should have went to college for a year as I analyze all the prospects I think he will be the best in the long run out of all of them.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Kezersoze</b>!
> how many of those guys start? most players that start under 6ft tend to be plagued with alot of injury problems.


8 players on 8 different teams


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## SteveHartfiel (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>T.Shock</b>!
> Telfair lacks the jump shot, the height, the strength, and the game sense to be anything but a poor man's Jamaal Tinsley. A year or two down in Louisville would've helped him so much.


I agree.. college for a couple even 1 year would of been great for him


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## Casual (Jun 2, 2003)

I'm pretty sure his strength is better than most point guards his age. He was defined already, and just started working out heavily for the draft.

You can't expect him to shoot like J.J. Redick. There's nothing to suggest that his jump shot can't get much better with a little work.


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## OZZY (Jun 14, 2002)

> If anyone, in my opinion is overrated, its Shaun Livingston. He has weak high school stats and his jumper isn't exactly on all the time. Im guessing its his height that puts him ahead of all the other pgs in the draft, but i just don't see a pro prosect in that guy right now.


 :clap: totally agree.


Just as someone said earlier, Sebastian Teflair makes the players around him better. He is a much better athlete than most give him create and people have to realize he is quick enough to make his apparent lack of strength not a liability. You can not say the same for Livingston.


Teflair could easily be the best true PG in this years draft. Against the foreign competition in the Pan Am games, Telfair completely controled that game and was a obviously leader on the court. And games against foreign talent are not just All Star games because they are very competitive.

Is he ready for the NBA? No. But since his parents and family are living in a slum and could be shot at any time because it is gang territory, I believe him going to the NBA is the right choice.


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## Kmasonbx (Apr 7, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>futuristxen</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> I think Telfair is getting backlash to his hype. He's going to really suprise people who have been so down on him.


I agree completely with that. When a guy is hyped so young, people just want to say he isn't worth all the hype. A person can see him 1 time and if he doesn't score 30 he really isn't that great. Well folks one time LeBron James played in a tournament out here in NYC and scored just 2 points against a team that didn't even make the playoffs, and he has turned out to be a pretty good player, don't you think? 

I hate when people say he isn't big enough, the kid is 5'11 and weighs 180 pounds, this 160-165 stuff is nonsense. When he was 5'8 he weighed 140, and your telling me despite his arms doubling in size and growing 3 inches he's only put on 20 pounds? 

The reason he'll be succesful is because he already has an incredible work ethic, everyday before school he runs the steps in his projects and does dribbling and shooting drills. Imagine what will happen when he gets to the NBA and all he has to worry about is playing basketball? He is going to work even harder when that is the only thing he has to do. He also has a great understanding for the game. He doesn't overdribble, his ballhandling is very efficient, he makes 1 move and goes to the basket, there are no moves on top of moves. All the nay sayers are going to be proven wrong by year 2 and I personally think he is going to produce right away.


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## jcs83md (Jun 9, 2003)

His arms doubled in size? Now thats astounding, pass me the number to that BALCO representative immediately.


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## MAS RipCity (Feb 22, 2003)

Telfair will be fine. Give him a couple years to hit the wieght room and progress on his mid-range jumper. That is all he needs to improve on. He has the rare God-given ability to see the floor better then most. He will turn out to be just as good as Livingston.


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## NewAnomaly (Apr 13, 2004)

Point Guards 6 feet or smaller that are starters in the NBA:

Damon Stoudimire
Chucky Atkins
Speedy Claxton
TJ Ford(and only 165)
Tyron Lue
Allen Iverson(Not a point guard, but I'm proving a point)

6-1
Mike Bibby
Jason Willaims
Bobby Jackson

Thats quite of few players in the NBA that are small and effective point guards. In Addition:

Bob Cousy(6'1" 175)
Tiny Archibald (6'1" 160)
Lenny Wilikins (6'1" 185)
Isiah Thomas (6'1" 185)
Maurice Cheeks (6'1" 180)
Tim Hardaway(6' 190)
John Stockton (6'1" 175)
Kevin Johnson (6'1" 190)



How many Awesome 6-7 point guards have their been?
1 Penny Hardaway, for 5 years, and then he was hurt and was never good again.

My point is size doesn't matter. Telfair has great courtvison, quicks, a good crossover, and can drive the lane. I'm sure everyone is dissing on his shot, but guess what he can get better. How good is Josh Smith's jumper. Not that good, but yet somehow he is a top 5 pick. Same with Livingston.


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## MarioChalmers (Mar 26, 2004)

Do any of you guys think Telfair will surprise everyone and be taken in the lottery?


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## Kezersoze (Mar 3, 2004)

I really don't expect him to be in the lottery cause there are simply much better players available, I dont see bobcats or washington passing over deng/gordon/smith/harris for Telfair. It may be better if he go mid or late 1st round to a good team and end up in a good situation. rather than end up doomed like kwame/curry.


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## whiterhino (Jun 15, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>NewAnomaly</b>!
> Point Guards 6 feet or smaller that are starters in the NBA:
> 
> Damon Stoudimire
> ...


And lets not forget that Earl Boykins is only 5'8", Spudd Webb was 5'6" and Mugsy Bouges was 5'3"!!!!


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## Kmurph (May 7, 2003)

> Do any of you guys think Telfair will surprise everyone and be taken in the lottery?


I think it is a possibility...I'd like to think POR would be smart enough to take him at #13. But I wouldn't be surprised if he went higher.

As for his Height & Weight, that will be determined at the Chicago Pre-Draft camp will it not?


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## rebelsun (Nov 25, 2003)

Because he is 5'11.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Kezersoze</b>!
> I really don't expect him to be in the lottery cause there are simply much better players available, I dont see bobcats or washington passing over deng/gordon/smith/harris for Telfair. It may be better if he go mid or late 1st round to a good team and end up in a good situation. rather than end up doomed like kwame/curry.


why are they doomed


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## RD (Jun 10, 2002)

I agree with those who think Telfair is not overrated, and I also agree with those that think Livingston is overrated.

People knock Telfair because he's been talked about so long. When you've been in the spotlight for awhile, people tned to put you on the backburner and put a new guy much higher. In this case, its Livingston. WHile he has been talked about, it hasnt been to anywhere near the level Telfair has.

People want to knock Telfair for many things, saying he isnt strong enough, he isnt tall enough, he doesn't shoot well enough ... Its a crock. Each and every one of those.

Telfair is cut, has a great work ethic, and is very tough. Strength will not be an issue for him. He's a point guard for christ sake. He isn't tall enough? As has been pointed out by a couple people above, he is not any smaller than a lot of other successful players in the NBA.

The shooting thing MIGHT be an issue, but I think that is the one that is most overblown. Telfair is definitely inconsistent with his shot - What young kid isnt? But, he still shot 50% from the field, and 45% from downtown. What more do you want from the kid? Like I said, he is inconsistent, but he can be very deadly. And when he is not on, like he showed in some all star game, he can still control a game in other ways. Thats the mark of a great player IMO.

As for Livingston - He is overrated for one reason: His height. People have fallen in love with him because he is 6'7. IMO, thats going to turn out to be more of a negative than a positive. If you dont know how to use your height, how is it an advantage? Livingston lacks great quickness. The smaller guards(which is just about everyone) will give him hell when he is playing defense. On offense, he is tall, which means the ball travels further to the ground and back up, meaning the smaller guards with quick hands can pick him. The kid is skinnier than Darius Miles coming out, so there is no way he is going to be able to use his height to post people up. So what does he get for being so tall? He gets a better passing lane seeing over his defender, but in this case, the negatives far outweigh the positive. 

Also, those same questions that people want to question Telfair in are the same that are questioned in Livingstons game, but people seem to ignore it because they are enamored with his height. Livingston is a worse shooter than Telfair. Livingston weighs the same as TElfair, despite being 8" taller. The strength issue is MUCH more of an issue with Livingston than it is with Telfair.

If you take out sizes, Telfair and Livingston are pretty similar. Great passers, great ball handlers, with great vision and court sense, but could use some strength work and need work on their jumpers. Only when you add quickness(which Telfair has by a longshot) and height(which Livingston has by a long shot) do the players separate. And in a PG, Ill take the quickness over the height. 

I like Livingston, despite what I am saying above. I just think he is a bit overrated. I think both him and Telfair should be rated in the same general area, not a Top 3 pick(Livingston) to mid first round(Telfair). Both players are going to be very good players. But one is going to go a bit higher than he should, and one is going to go lower than he should. I'll take Telfair based on talent and based on value.


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## The Mad Viking (Jun 12, 2003)

At best, Telfair is TJ Ford without 2 years collegiate experience.

How many point guards out of HS have made an impact?

There is substantial risk in drafting an undersized HS player.

But if you like undersized points with no treyshooting, go for it.

It will be a couple of years before he can become a starter. He will always struggle against bigger points who post him up.

Not a lottery pick. A nice project for a deep team to carry in the late first round.


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## Cusematt23 (Apr 15, 2004)

Good post, RD. 5 stars .


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>The Mad Viking</b>!
> 
> It will be a couple of years before he can become a starter. He will always struggle against bigger points who post him up.


Can you name 5 point guards who post up on a regular basis?


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## PatBateman (May 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jcs83md</b>!
> His arms doubled in size? Now thats astounding, pass me the number to that BALCO representative immediately.


bwahhahahahahahah LOL!!!! LMFAO!

thanks foir the laugh


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## RD (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>The Mad Viking</b>!
> At best, Telfair is TJ Ford without 2 years collegiate experience.


I disagree with that. I think that where TJ Ford went in the draft is a good comparison for where Telfair should go, but Telfair has more ability than Ford. Physically, though the same height, Telfair's body is much better. Telfair is cut already, and is already bigger than Ford. On the floor, they both have similar court sense, vision, and quickness, but Telfair has better handles and a MUCH better shot from the perimeter. Just looking at shooting alone, that should put Telfair ahead of Ford in terms of how good he can become, because Ford can't shoot at all. And this is coming from a huge TJ Ford fan.I wanted the Clippers to draft him last year.



> How many point guards out of HS have made an impact?


How many have made the jump? This isn't a fair criticism of him. There hasnt been anyone as good as him to make the jump, so you can't knock him because no one else has done it.



> It will be a couple of years before he can become a starter. He will always struggle against bigger points who post him up.


Big deal. It takes EVERY high schooler a couple years to become a starter. Using this to knock him is ridiculous - Stoudemire and LeBron are the clear exception to this rule. The other HSers took a couple years to develop into starters as well. As for posting him up ... Posting up is not a huge need in a PG. Its certainly not a reason to not take him. There are only a handful of PG's that can and do post up in the NBA, and those guys can all post up 2 year college player TJ Ford the same that they will be Telfair. NBA points that can post up will also do the exact same to Livingston because he is so weak physically. He's also a liability in in the post if you want to talk about that.

People are overrating the size issue, and they are overrating Telfair's jumpshot. He isnt TJ Ford in regards to shooting, and he is actually a better shooter than Livingston.


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## jokeaward (May 22, 2003)

I don't really get it.

Offense: The kid set the NYC High-School scoring record, facing NYC competition and the toughest HS competition in the country from other areas. Jumper, floater, whatever. He scored. Do you really think he didn't deal with trees? And he had 7 assists and 2 shots in the ASG.

Defense: How can we evaluate him or Livingston on D? Size isn't everything. I don't buy the doom of playing a PG under 6'0". People have been posting up Boykins FOREVER, and he still gets PT. Telfair isn't as strong, but if he's a decent steal-grabbing type on D and special on O, is that so bad?


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

telfair's size has nothing to do with this. He is coming out of high school and he cant shoot a lick. Just like Darius Miles... Just like his cousin. The good news is the mocks dont have him in the top five...he is outside the lottery...where he belongs....he could make a team better someday...no question the kid has potential.... all i know is i want Nash running my offense before a guy like marbury or telfair....meaning get a jump shot...or you wont be a superstar...andre miller isnt.... but he doesnt have the same natural talent...the point is...his cousin isnt either....not until he can lead a team deep into the playoffs.... give the kid a few years...no promises...he could turn out....but yes he is hyped up....if he's not marbury's cousin...he falls to the bubble...and would have gone to college for a year...but his family is in poverty so i completely understand his move...im sure he will work hard


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## 22ryno (Mar 17, 2003)

You obviously have never seen him play. To compare his shot to Darius Miles is ridiculous. He by no means is J.J. Reddick but he is an adequate shooter who will get better.


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

I'm betting i have more channels then you...yes i've seen him play. No he cant shot. Yes his shot is flat.....and yes he ducked out of more games because it would hurt his draft standing...but he could be a spectacular player...but he shoots no better than Darius Miles...and Miles finished strong in Portland...and may even be back..there is hope for him....and Telfair could very well improve...i'm not dogging him...but come on.... no NBA team lets him shoot from the outside next year....I'm not even sure he plays...depends on were he goes.... he needs the money so he skips college...ok i understand...but the kid has no outside shot.... there is nothing to argue about...its not there...watch him play...read the scouting report whatever...thats why i'd rather have a guy like Nash...a playmaker and a scorer of the high screen..... you think telfair is going to be runing high screen and rolls....heck no...nobody would jump out at him


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## Kmasonbx (Apr 7, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>nbanoitall</b>!
> I'm betting i have more channels then you...yes i've seen him play. No he cant shot. Yes his shot is flat.....and yes he ducked out of more games because it would hurt his draft standing...but he could be a spectacular player...but he shoots no better than Darius Miles...and Miles finished strong in Portland...and may even be back..there is hope for him....and Telfair could very well improve...i'm not dogging him...but come on.... no NBA team lets him shoot from the outside next year....I'm not even sure he plays...depends on were he goes.... he needs the money so he skips college...ok i understand...but the kid has no outside shot.... there is nothing to argue about...its not there...watch him play...read the scouting report whatever...thats why i'd rather have a guy like Nash...a playmaker and a scorer of the high screen..... you think telfair is going to be runing high screen and rolls....heck no...nobody would jump out at him


How many times have you seen him play? I've seen Telfair play, no exaggeration about 50 times since he was in 8th grade. Just this past season I saw him play 12 times. Is jumper is off and on, the only reason it is ever off is because he has a bad habit of shooting on his way down. If he can correct this he will be a much more consistent shooter. I'm not sure if he'll ever be a great 3 point shooter, but neither is Sam Cassell and he is a great jump shooter. Sebastian is going to be an NBA star no doubt about it.


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## Big John (Sep 11, 2002)

I have to laugh at all of this. The reason people are calling Telfair "overrated" is because journalists like Chad Ford are being fed alot of crap by NBA "insiders" who hope like hell that Telfair will drop to their team in the draft.

This kid is a natural. If you think he can't shoot, go back and get a tape of the game in Trenton between Lincoln and Oak Hill where Telfair torched Oak Hill (and Rajon Rondo) for 30 points, including the game winning 3 pointer at the buzzer.

The only question mark is Telfair's defense. Well, Luke Ridnour can't defend either, and he was a top 15 pick last year.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

I'm watching the EBC game (at Rucker) right now from last summer and Sebastian is looking good out there. He is a lot stronger than people give him credit for. His court vision is amazing.


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## alex (Jan 7, 2003)

"If you think he can't shoot, go back and get a tape of the game in Trenton between Lincoln and Oak Hill where Telfair torched Oak Hill (and Rajon Rondo) for 30 points, including the game winning 3 pointer at the buzzer." -Big John

I thought Oak Hill went undefeated last year, but I do know that he hit a game winner against Dwight Howard's team, Southwest Atlanta Christian. 

I could be wrong, but I don't think Oak Hill even played Lincoln last year 

EDIT- No, here is Oak Hill's schedule http://www.oak-hill.net/basketball/gold/goldupdates.htm 

Maybe ya ment Licoln vs SWACA?


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Watching Telfair again today, I just don't see how he doesn't make it. I said I saw a little Tiny Archibald in his game and I believe it. This guy is special.


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## Big John (Sep 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>alex</b>!
> "If you think he can't shoot, go back and get a tape of the game in Trenton between Lincoln and Oak Hill where Telfair torched Oak Hill (and Rajon Rondo) for 30 points, including the game winning 3 pointer at the buzzer." -Big John
> 
> I thought Oak Hill went undefeated last year, but I do know that he hit a game winner against Dwight Howard's team, Southwest Atlanta Christian.
> ...


No, your right, it was Dwight Howard's team. My mistake. It was the finals of the tornament in Trenton. I saw Oak Hill play Cardinal Dougherty from Philly, not Lincoln.

In any case, Telfair was pretty impressive in that game.


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## Eagles in 2003 (Jul 18, 2002)

Yea, Telfair drained a three at the buzzer to beat Dwight Howard's team, i saw it as well. Oak Hill and Dougherty played a close game, with Dougherty leading at the half but Oak Hill pulled ahead and won by like 8 i believe. Dougherty is from my area, they have top 30 or 40 player Kyle Lowry, and Rajon Rondo made him look stupid at times.


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

high school and the NBA is very different.... telfair is a great shooter....oh yea and Kwame your select as number one overall...excellent choice Michael...... i like jordan...but he got the wrong guy.... I like telfair...but his shooting % in the NBA next year...will be low...this isnt high school... telfair isnt going to drive into Theo Ratiliff...and he will shoot sub .300 from the 3 pt arc...well below.... i'm not a telfair hater.... nor do i think he is overrated...he will be drafted in the right spot...outside the lottery...all i know is his shot is flat...right bowen right theo?


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

kevin garnett torched people in high school...ask Mchale...was his shot flat as hell when he came into the league? you bet it was


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## Absynth (Oct 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>nbanoitall</b>!
> high school and the NBA is very different.... telfair is a great shooter....oh yea and Kwame your select as number one overall...excellent choice Michael...... i like jordan...but he got the wrong guy.... I like telfair...but his shooting % in the NBA next year...will be low...this isnt high school... telfair isnt going to drive into Theo Ratiliff...and he will shoot sub .300 from the 3 pt arc...well below.... i'm not a telfair hater.... nor do i think he is overrated...he will be drafted in the right spot...outside the lottery...all i know is his shot is flat...right bowen right theo?


what the heck are you rambling on about? What are you doing talking about Jordan here?


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

are you serious...you dont know...who do you think drafted Kwame Brown.... MJ liked him a lot...and he still is young...he could turn into something...i dont know what...but he should not have been a number 1 pick.... thats not rambling...it relates to the jump from high school to the pros...just because you didnt connect the dots...doesnt mean im rambling


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>nbanoitall</b>!
> kevin garnett torched people in high school...ask Mchale...was his shot flat as hell when he came into the league? you bet it was


Why do you type like this? Ever heard of a comma. Your posts are like one big run-on sentence.


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

there is a big difference in being able to write...and being right... i know...ive got the right part...just not the write part down...figure that out.... you have to hammer my writing skills.... because what i have written has be right on...haha.... anyways... i'm not going to dog telfair...he can learn to shoot...Garnett did...and way back when...so did Karl Marlone... i still stand by what i have said in other post and threads....andre miller wont ever beable to shoot...but he is a solid point guard


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Time to put you on ignore. Later.


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

whatever man...what a guy does at the playground in new york...were you saw him...doesnt necessarily translate into superstardom.... there are people like me...who think its to early to call Telfair special...and people like you...who are already doing it.... we called lebron special....and we call kenny from southpark special...in a different sort of way...but while Telfair is a 1st round pick...he's not special yet


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## Knicksbiggestfan (Apr 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> Time to put you on ignore. Later.



Hahaha

Anyway, Telfair is overrated because he'll be a tremendous defeisve liability.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Knicksbiggestfan</b>!
> Hahaha
> 
> Anyway, Telfair is overrated because he'll be a tremendous defeisve liability.


That maybe true and I wasn't debating that. I was asking why it is necessary to write like that. Since he wants to continue doing that, I am putting him on ignore, because I would prefer not to read it.


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## Knicksbiggestfan (Apr 29, 2003)

I......................wa..........s..................just......................responding.........................to......................the.......................thread title.
..............no................offense...............intended.
:laugh:

I don't know why people are so high on Telfair. If he got dominated by Livingston, and Livingston is suppsedly super skinny and not very athletic, than Telfair might not be as good as people think.


I wonder how he did against Devon Harris.


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## Big John (Sep 11, 2002)

Since when did Tefair get dominated by Livingston? It certainly wasn't in the McDonalds game.


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## Knicksbiggestfan (Apr 29, 2003)

From the ABCD Camp.



> If you thought his first game was great then the second game of the day was a thing of beauty. Livingston was locked up against former Duke prospect Sebastian Telfair in the marquee matchup of the evening. When the dust settled Livingston by far came out the winner. Shaun hit 8 of 10 field goals on route to 19 points. That was maybe the least impressive thing about the game however; Livingston showed why he is such a gem to Duke, Illinois, and Arizona. The Peoria, IL native used his height advantage on almost every facet of the game on Telfair. He checked him on defense making the New York star take poor shots and taking away his ability to get to the basket (Telfair finished with 10 points and 3 assists on 4-13 shooting). Offensively Livingston could get over and around Telfair almost every time he wanted to. Telfair’s team got the better of the North though and won 129-119.


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## Knicksbiggestfan (Apr 29, 2003)




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## sologigolos (May 27, 2003)

hey, you know who else is a "natual point guard" who couldn't shoot?
TJ Ford, who went #8 i believe (and many do think Jordan had a bit to do with this). ANd y'all saw him play. Yea he still can't shoot. But i can hardly blame the bucks for wanting this.
yeah Ford put 2 years in college so it's different, but Ford still couldn't shoot.

and uh, another high school "point guard" with amazing court vision who everyone said was hyped up?
LeBron James, who did convert to SG midway through the season. But there was a time that the kid was averaging 18-7-7.
And you know what? In the first few weeks of the season, my roommates and I watched Cavs games religiously. And it wasn't his drives and his dunks that made our jaws drop. It was that court vision and basketball sense.
You can teach a kid how to shoot jumpshots and make tighter passes. But you can't teach a kid basketball sense, that awareness of everything. Telfair's got that.


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

i agree completely...tj played college ball...proved himself...thats why he went so high...if telfair went to pitino...he could 2...since hes coming straight out of high school...he's picked outside the lottery...has potiental....lots of people are noted for having potential...and some live up to it...tj has...no question


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

on nbadraft.net the have telfair at no. 15 going to boston 
and thats an improvement over marcus banks.... ill take that pick if i'm danny a...becuz after trading delk away to dallas...they dont have a floor general at all


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>nbanoitall</b>!
> on nbadraft.net the have telfair at no. 15 going to boston
> and thats an improvement over marcus banks.... ill take that pick if i'm danny a...becuz after trading delk away to dallas...they dont have a floor general at all


You think Delk is a floor general. What would you do with Banks? I was really impressed with him towards the end of the season


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

yea banks did show a little promise

delk well he had been a solid vet for the celtics

cant say i see eye to eye with Danny

banks stays on the roster

i'm not ready to call telfair great or even a starting nba point guard for the celtics

but if you draft telfair at least you have a young guy that could turn into something special

celtics take telfair at 15 
if they want a cheap vet that has played decent in his career (mostly with IND) travis best will be a free agent

i'm not saying he should start either
he didnt really play in dallas after leaving miami

but hey he will sign for the leag min


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## Kmasonbx (Apr 7, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Knicksbiggestfan</b>!
> From the ABCD Camp.


I really have no idea where that quote is from, because Telfair never scored just 10 points in the ABCD all-star game. Telfair's first year at the camp Livingston wasn't even there, his 2nd year Sebastian scored 29, had 7 assists and got MVP for his team, and this was another year Livingston wasn't even there. His 3rd year Sebastian had a bad game but still finished with 20+ points and took home is team's MVP. This past summer he scored 17 points and handed out 6 assists. Livingston got his team's MVP but he only scored 6 points but had 13 assists. I think your quote is bogus. 

I also saw both games the two played head to head at the camp in regular play. The first time, Sebastian's 3rd year at the camp, neither did much of anything, the 2nd time Sebastian had 16 points and 10 assists. Shaun had like 13 and 6 but most people that were watching thought Shaun got the better of him. 

People saying Shaun dominated Sebastian at ABCD is just propoganda, it never really happened, I witnessed first hand all of their matchups at the camp.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Kmasonbx</b>!
> 
> 
> I really have no idea where that quote is from, because Telfair never scored just 10 points in the ABCD all-star game. Telfair's first year at the camp Livingston wasn't even there, his 2nd year Sebastian scored 29, had 7 assists and got MVP for his team, and this was another year Livingston wasn't even there. His 3rd year Sebastian had a bad game but still finished with 20+ points and took home is team's MVP. This past summer he scored 17 points and handed out 6 assists. Livingston got his team's MVP but he only scored 6 points but had 13 assists. I think your quote is bogus.
> ...


Its not a bogus quote Kmasonbx, its just not a totally factual one. That’s why when these 2 players are discussed I laugh because someone will go fishing for that quote and saying they saw this and that, and anyone who was present for that ABCD camp the sum before Telfair’s and Livingston’s Senior year they would know that wasn’t a true statement at all. Which lets me know most are only going off of what someone else said or these quotes that they saw someone post. Livingston probably played D on Telfair 10 minutes and in those 10 minutes he gave him fits on the defensive end but Telfair more than gave him his share of problems. In the time that they actually stuck each other it was more stalemate than either one of them besting the other


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

Interesting article

http://www.oregonlive.com/sports/oregonian/john_canzano/index.ssf?/base/sports/108539986129600.xml


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>blowuptheraptors</b>!
> Interesting article
> 
> http://www.oregonlive.com/sports/oregonian/john_canzano/index.ssf?/base/sports/108539986129600.xml


That article was terrible. He says in the article the blazers already have 2 High School projects in Outlaw and Woods. But woods was a JC player when he was drafted. At least he could look up some info before writing such trash. He also didnt point out that when he went up against Duhon he absolutely destroyed him, in the 2 on2 sessions. I'm not even a Telfair fan and some of the stuff I have been reading recently is quite bad.


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## Coatesvillain (Jul 17, 2002)

Hey Kmasonbx,

I see you talking about the ABCD camp, and I was wondering do they sell tickets or something to that? I always wanted to attend an AAU camp as a spectator.


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## Kmasonbx (Apr 7, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>PhillyPhanatic</b>!
> Hey Kmasonbx,
> 
> I see you talking about the ABCD camp, and I was wondering do they sell tickets or something to that? I always wanted to attend an AAU camp as a spectator.


$5 a day to get in at the camp, the only thing is spectators don't get a program telling them what # each player is, but if you ask around enough somebody will know.


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## Coatesvillain (Jul 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Kmasonbx</b>!
> $5 a day to get in at the camp, the only thing is spectators don't get a program telling them what # each player is, but if you ask around enough somebody will know.


Are people allowed to take pictures? If so, I'm definitely going to try and head down this year.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

Beez. Please post some links talking about the Telfair destruction of Duhon.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>blowuptheraptors</b>!
> Beez. Please post some links talking about the Telfair destruction of Duhon.


I dont have links. If ever I post something of the sort, its from sources I have close to those situations. If you check the track record I have hardly ever been wrong


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