# Celtics' Players' Profiles -- Delonte West



## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

BBB.net plans to throw together some player profiles, and perhaps you guys would like to help?


<strike>Tony Allen</strike>
<strike>Marcus Banks</strike>
<strike>Mark Blount</strike>
<strike>Ricky Davis</strike>
<strike>Al Jefferson</strike>
<strike>Raef LaFrentz</strike>
<strike>Gary Payton</strike>
<strike>Kendrick Perkins</strike>
<strike>Paul Pierce</strike>
<strike>Justin Reed</strike>
<strike>Antoine Walker</strike>
*Delonte West*

What do you think their "Pros", "Cons", "Career Highlights / Highs" are, other notable info, and perhaps some quotes.

Now, Delonte West.

*Use the Headshot Gallery for a profile picture of Delonte West.*


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

This is an example post for what the setup should look like:

_For Example:

_*Tony Allen

*









*Position*: Guard  
*Born*: January 11, 1982
*Heigh*t: 6-4 
*Weight*: 213 lbs. 
*College*: Oklahoma State
*NBA Experience*: 1 Year

*Pros:
*- Tremendous on-ball defender.
- Great at put-back slams from the weakside.
- Very athletic. Using athleticisim to rebound effectively.
​*Cons:
*- Poor shooting touch and a lousy jumper in general.
- A little "over-aggressive" on defense. Commits too much fouls.
- At 6'4", he's a little short to play shooting guard and he's not suited for point guard.
​Tony Allen could develop into a solid starter. Allen is very strong and uses his athleticisim to push around his opponent, making him one of the better on-ball defenders in the league. He is great at changing the pace of the game with concentrated spurts of energy. While his jump shot isn't adequate (marginal shot release to go along with his poor mid-range game although statistically, he is the best three point shooter on the team), Allen is a good penetrator (as evidenced by his ability to explode off the block for a put-back slam from the weakside). He is a good rebounder, skying over contesting oppenents for the rebound
<!-- / message --> <!-- sig -->


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

Personally, I didn't wanna do it, but I guess I had to be fair to everyone. 

Pros:

Very good shooter.
Hustles all over the floor. 
Does a great job stealing rebounds.
Very good work ethic.
Has a very good head on his sholders.

Cons:

Supposed to play point guard but is not one.
Doesn't have that much talent.


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## DWest Superstar (Jun 30, 2005)

> Not a point guard.


You can't call that a flaw in his game.


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

Gerald Green said:


> You can't call that a flaw in his game.


It's the first draft. 

I really didn't wanna finish him off, I just wanted to get Prem and ehmunro warmed up.


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## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

> You can't call that a flaw in his game.


If the guy is a point guard who can't play the point, then it is most certainly a flaw in his game.


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## DWest Superstar (Jun 30, 2005)

P-Dub34 said:


> If the guy is a point guard who can't play the point, then it is most certainly a flaw in his game.


He did not say "can't play the point" He said "not a Poing guard" there is a difference. We are talking about cons ability wise not being a PG is not one of them


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

Gerald Green said:


> He did not say "can't play the point" He said "not a Poing guard" there is a difference. We are talking about cons ability wise not being a PG is not one of them


As I said, it's the first draft, and it will be edit. But just to make you happy, I'll do it right now.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*Delonte West

*









*Position*: Guard  
*Born*: July 26, 1983
*Heigh*t: 6'4" in 4" stiletto heels 
*Weight*: 170 lbs. with luggage 
*College*: St. Joseph's
*NBA Experience*: 1 Year

*Pros:
*- Can shoot a jumper.
- Really tries hard.
- Can really shoot a jumper.
- Pretty smart.
- Really knows how to bury that jumper
- Has improved his first step, recently managed to beat George Mikan off the dribble.
​*Cons:
*- Very weak, lost an arm wrestling contest to Emanuel Lewis.
- Not very athletic, has trouble defending players that are stronger and/or faster than he is. Which covers most of the NBA
- His right hand is functionally useless, can't even rub out a good wank with it.
- Can't even beat himself off the dribble.
- Dribbles like a white man on heroin.
- His man-crush on Amare Stoudemire causes him to lose track of the on-court action against Phoenix (see photo above).
​Delonte West will, one day, make a pretty good basketball coach. Until then he's sort of a smaller, weaker, less athletic Erick Strickland.


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## Rebounders_Rule! (Aug 18, 2005)

aquaitious said:


> Cons:
> 
> Supposed to play point guard but is not one.


Why not phrase that more like this? "Supposed to play point guard but some observers believe him better suited to the shooting guard position."

I might go along with substituting "many" for "some" in the above, but I draw the line at "most".


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

Rebounders_Rule! said:


> Why not phrase that more like this? "Supposed to play point guard but some observers believe him better suited to the shooting guard position."
> 
> I might go along with substituting "many" for "some" in the above, but I draw the line at "most".



The guy is awful. I was pretty nice in saying "...he is not one."

It would also help if you guys added your own opinion, instead of trying to correct mine.


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## FanOfAll8472 (Jun 28, 2003)

I think the better phrase is 'tweener. He doesn't have point guard skills, nor does he have the size/strength to guard most 2 guards in the league. It's fun watching West's hustle though, and last year, with guys looking to score (Pierce, Davis, and later Walker), West's unselfishness was a plus on the team. Not very talented though.


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## patrick_wandalowski (Aug 5, 2003)

i admit my bias as a saint joseph's follower/supporter. Here are my thoughts.

STRENGTHS:

1. Shooting. Shot 89% FT his junior year at SJU. While at sju, his mid-range game was fantastic. Was even comfortable taking other guards into the post. Jumper automatic when left open. That should help if Pierce demands a double.

2. Passing. Actually had more assists in conference play than teammate Jameer Nelson. West isn't one to drive the lane to penetrate and dish. He is more of a perimeter passer. SJU uses a 3 guard, 3 pt shooting system. West and Nelson were never selfish; rather, they always found the open man. Won't stand in place and overdribble (ala steve francis/iverson). 

3. Hustle. There is a famous picture in recent Hawk history capturing Delonte's hustle. It happened in the 2nd Rd. of the NCAA tourney in the Hawks' win against Texas Tech. With the clock running down the final seconds, the photo captures 4 of the Hawks celebrating the victory, while West is sprinting downcourt to possess the loose ball. West plays 100% all the time.

4. Desire/Will. Always working hard. Won't give up. When all the hype went to High School teammate Eddie Basden, West took that as motivation and became the best player on his team. 
Delonte was stunned when he didn't make the All A-10 rookie team. West came off the bench (behind senior Marvin O'Connor) and was great, but only averaged about 9 mins due to seniors playing. Once again used that snub as motivation. Next season, he was A-10 1st team and the most improved player.
As all of you probably read/saw last season, he won't back down to anyone. just ask amare stoudemire.
Steps us as a leader. Just witness his summer league game where he called out himself and his teammates. 

5. Athleticism. he doesn't look like it, but his athleticism is actually pretty good. Can dunk it very easily, and had quite a few blocks in college. But he plays a controlled pace, so you don't see him flying fast and out of control.

6. Teacher's Pet. Although the naysayers use it against him, the fact that Ainge loves him is an advantage. I think it is because he plays the game more like an 80s player than the current player. Smart and Effective rather than freakish athlete with no fundamentals.

NEGATIVES: 

1. Injuries. I don't think this is a problem, but he has somewhat of a history. Broke his foot in sophomore year. And had 3 hand injuries last season. The hand injuries seem like freak accidents. Just diving for loose balls and such.

2. New Role. Was drafted as a PG. Never played this role in college. If he came back his senior season, he may have had a year under his belt. Doesn't have PG game experience. He was thrown into a new position against the best players in the world.

3. Bulk. I think West needs to hit the weights a bit more. He needs to hone his body. He doesn't need to be a muscle-head, but I agree that he doesn't have an NBA body yet, unlike Jameer Nelson who is very strong. 

TIDBITS:

1. Was lightly recruited out of school. Chose saint joseph's over siena. Basically because sju got more tv exposure (and its not like sju dominates the airways like an acc team). Gary Williams (coach of maryland) admitted that he should have gone after West.

2. Forget about the height thing. No he isn't 6'4. But that's how it is for EVERY NBA player. The heights listed are with their shoes on. With shoes on, West is 6'4.

3. No, he isn't a freakish athlete like some guards (AI/Tmac/Francis), but he has enough athleticim to get by. West isn't a 1st option, he will be a 4th option. But teams need guys like that to be successful.

4. Went a perfect 13 for 13 for 33 points at Xavier in front of courtside scout Larry Bird, a game in which West and Nelson combined for 61 points to hold off Xavier and keep sju's perfect season alive. Probably cemented his NBA prospects.

5. Delonte is a pretty good artist. I think he leans toward sketch art, not painting.

If anyone has any questions, feel free to ask.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

patrick_wandalowski said:


> 2. Passing. Actually had more assists in conference play than teammate Jameer Nelson. West isn't one to drive the lane to penetrate and dish. He is more of a perimeter passer. SJU uses a 3 guard, 3 pt shooting system. West and Nelson were never selfish; rather, they always found the open man. Won't stand in place and overdribble (ala steve francis/iverson).


In other words, he has a bad handle and his "passing ability" is the ability that everyone this side of Al Jefferson has.



patrick_wandalowski said:


> 2. Forget about the height thing. No he isn't 6'4. But that's how it is for EVERY NBA player. The heights listed are with their shoes on. With shoes on, West is 6'4.


Actually, at the Chicago Pre-Draft Camp in 2004 he measured 6'1-1/2" without shoes and 6'2-3/4" _with_ shoes.



patrick_wandalowski said:


> 3. No, he isn't a freakish athlete like some guards (AI/Tmac/Francis), but he has enough athleticim to get by. West isn't a 1st option, he will be a 4th option. But teams need guys like that to be successful.


It's tough to make a living as a one guard when you lack strength, speed, and lateral quicks. When you're playing the one, you _have_ to be able to play on the ball.


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## KingHandles (Mar 19, 2005)

Delonte West-Everything you could want in a growing and learning point guard.


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## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

> Everything you could want in a growing and learning point guard.


Mentally, maybe.


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## agoo (Jun 1, 2003)

You really can't fault West for his injuries last season. Breaking your hand, generally, will not be a chronic problem I don't think. And the second/third time he broke it, it was from trying to protect the previous break.


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## Monk (Apr 22, 2003)

To sum up most of the opinions in this thread:

_Delonte sucks and has no talent because he plays under control and doesn't look to shoot everytime he gets the ball like most of his teammates. Delonte is not athletic because he rarely dunks on people. The coaching staff and front office don't know what they are talking about when they sing Delonte's praises._


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## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

Ummm...that's not what anybody was saying. Quit making crap up.

West is a smart player who plays with a fire in him, which is great to see. I love his intensity. He can definitely nail the open J and it's a shame he isn't about four inches taller because he's definitely a two in a point guard's body. Unfortunately, he is not blessed with the physical tools to be an NBA-quality one guard. His lateral quickness, first step, strength, and handle are all below average (at best) and in addition to these shortcomings he is not a very good defender. Great head on his shoulders, but he doesn't have the talent to support it. You said most of West's assists came from passing around the perimeter - whoopty doo. Until the C's play a 3 guard, 3 point shooting set, this really isn't going to mean much. Making a basic chest pass around the perimeter isn't anything to write home about. If you want a PG who can drain the open J and make the safe pass but can't play D, Delonte is your guy.

That's the general opinion of everybody in this thread. Just because we aren't in love with your St. Joe's boy doesn't mean you have to get all huffy.


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## LX (Oct 14, 2004)

Monk said:


> To sum up most of the opinions in this thread:
> 
> _Delonte sucks and has no talent because he plays under control and doesn't look to shoot everytime he gets the ball like most of his teammates. Delonte is not athletic because he rarely dunks on people. The coaching staff and front office don't know what they are talking about when they sing Delonte's praises._


Get used to it. Negativity is the theme of the Celtics forum. (Even though what you said is a little bit exaggerating, but you get the point).


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## KingHandles (Mar 19, 2005)

Monk said:


> To sum up most of the opinions in this thread:
> 
> _Delonte sucks and has no talent because he plays under control and doesn't look to shoot everytime he gets the ball like most of his teammates. Delonte is not athletic because he rarely dunks on people. The coaching staff and front office don't know what they are talking about when they sing Delonte's praises._


I feel the exact same way as you.



P-Dub34 said:


> Ummm...that's not what anybody was saying. Quit making crap up.
> 
> West is a smart player who plays with a fire in him, which is great to see. I love his intensity. He can definitely nail the open J and it's a shame he isn't about four inches taller because he's definitely a two in a point guard's body. Unfortunately, he is not blessed with the physical tools to be an NBA-quality one guard. His lateral quickness, first step, strength, and handle are all below average (at best) and in addition to these shortcomings he is not a very good defender. Great head on his shoulders, but he doesn't have the talent to support it. You said most of West's assists came from passing around the perimeter - whoopty doo. Until the C's play a 3 guard, 3 point shooting set, this really isn't going to mean much. Making a basic chest pass around the perimeter isn't anything to write home about. If you want a PG who can drain the open J and make the safe pass but can't play D, Delonte is your guy.
> 
> That's the general opinion of everybody in this thread. Just because we aren't in love with your St. Joe's boy doesn't mean you have to get all huffy.[/I]


I also agree with you in ways and know where your coming from. I think he has reasonable and workable strength a fair laterall quickness but I do agree his first step needs working. I think he is an above average defender because he understands fully how to play defense, The ony drawback is his not excellent athletic ability. 

P.S. Im not a homer at all, I think the Celtics direction is good but Im pissed off with how things are and im not looking forward 2 this season and I love 2 listen 2 other opinions it's when I disagree strongly when I could seema homer:clown: and I dont like 2 come of as an *** so if I seemed it...apologies


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## whiterhino (Jun 15, 2003)

ehmunro said:


> *Delonte West
> 
> *
> 
> ...



Absolutely CLASSIC, this was AWESOME :clap: 

I will only add....out of the league within 5 years not because of heart but simply because of a lack of talent at the only position his size allows him to play :biggrin:


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## patrick_wandalowski (Aug 5, 2003)

of course, we are all just speculating. If he plays PG for 30 mins a game, we will know.

you don't need to be a super athlete to be a solid PG:

1. eric snow
2. mark jackson
3. jamal tinsley


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## DWest Superstar (Jun 30, 2005)

patrick_wandalowski said:


> of course, we are all just speculating. If he plays PG for 30 mins a game, we will know.
> 
> you don't need to be a super athlete to be a solid PG:
> 
> ...


I know but for some reason people say he has no talent. Which makes no sense because then I would have no idea as to why he is in the league.

They are just mad because of the progress Delonte had made is is getting Banks out of Boston :biggrin:


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## SamIam (Jun 1, 2004)

Pros: The team offense doesn't take a Banks-like nose dive with him at the point. Will absolutely kill teams that try to double off him onto Paul or Ricky or Al. Savvy enough to get the ball into the hands of the best players rather than wanking time off the shot clock. No training camp, missed 1/3 of season, playing new position and makes huge plays in the first minute he gets put on the court. Won't give his coach an ulcer like a certain talented but completely clueless teammate of his. Averaged more assists in college than his more heralded teammate Jameer.


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## Bad Bartons (Aug 23, 2002)

Gerald Green said:


> I know but for some reason people say he has no talent. Which makes no sense because then I would have no idea as to why he is in the league.
> 
> They are just mad because of the progress Delonte had made is is getting Banks out of Boston :biggrin:



I think people are using the word "talent" in exchange for saying that West is not an athlete. I would say that this is not an appropriate use of the word talent. Tony Allen, for example, is a great athlete who is a talented dunker.

Delonte West is talented. 
He is a talented shooter.
He is talented at giving 100% all of the time.
He is talented at being a good team player.
He is talented at playing on winning teams.
He is talented at sketch art (that is what Monk said anyway).

Delonte is not a prototype point guard. 
He is not quick off the dribble by NBA standards so he is not a penetrator. He is not a good one-on-one defender but I do think he is an adequate team defender. He is not fast enough to blow by defenders in the open court but instead uses good judgement to get the ball down the court.

Much of what we have seen of Delonte West is based on Summer League, and college. He had a few nice games in the NBA but the injuries prevented us from seeing his true potential in the NBA.

Teammates, coaches and Ainge love Delonte and that will go a long way towards his opportunity to succeed.


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## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

Mindz, don't worry about it, both of us could've handled ourselves better.

As for West: I'm not saying that he's garbage. I like him better than Banks because he's got a head on his shoulders. But that doesn't necessarily mean he'll develop into a good NBA player. 

Now, on to this nonsense:



> 1. eric snow


Much better passer than West. Much better. 7 consecutive 6+ apg seasons with a couple 7+ mixed in there. West can't do that. He's also, or at least was, an excellent perimeter defender. West is not.


> 2. mark jackson


Second All-Time in assists, and an excellent defender. Can West do this stuff? No. 



> 3. jamal tinsley


An 7-8+apg guy when he's healthy. West can't do that. 

Sure, you don't need to be a super athlete to be a point guard. But all three of these guys, while not great athletes, have skills that West does not. All are good to great passers and 2 out of the 3 were very, very good defenders. Can West do either of those things? No. When he can, talk to me then. But saying right now that West can succeed and citing these guys as examples is just plain foolish.



> They are just mad because of the progress Delonte had made is is getting Banks out of Boston


Why would I be mad about that? If West was as good as you all make him out to be, he'd be improving our team and I'd be happy about that. I'm not even a Banks fan. I just think he has a better shot at becoming a "somebody" than Delonte West.



> Averaged more assists in college than his more heralded teammate Jameer.


Also had a less-than-impressive (and that's being generous) 2:1 Ast/TO.


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## LX (Oct 14, 2004)

P-Dub34 said:


> Mindz, don't worry about it, both of us could've handled ourselves better.
> 
> As for West: I'm not saying that he's garbage. I like him better than Banks because he's got a head on his shoulders. But that doesn't necessarily mean he'll develop into a good NBA player.
> 
> ...


Is it really fair to judge West based on the 39 total games he's played in his career? Not to mention he was coming off a hand injury. Who are you to know whether or not West is capable of becoming an average point guard? Obviously the coaching staff seems to think he can be a decent point guard, so why can't we Celtics fans agree with that?


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## KingHandles (Mar 19, 2005)

I AGREE :clap:


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## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

> Is it really fair to judge West based on the 39 total games he's played in his career?


If you think West will ever become the kind of 7-9apg guy with great D that Snow and Jackson were, all the more power to you.



> Obviously the coaching staff seems to think he can be a decent point guard, so why can't we Celtics fans agree with that?


Obviously Chris Wallace thought Joe Forte would be a decent point guard, so why can't we Celtic fans agree with that? Oh, yeah. Because I enjoy thinking for my own. If that's okay with you, of course.

Doc Rivers played Mark Blount all last year even though he was a waste of space and oftentimes his rotations sucked. But we should just agree with that? Give me a break! Did Doc Rivers become God when I wasn't looking and I have to blindly agree with his assessments?


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## LX (Oct 14, 2004)

P-Dub34 said:


> If you think West will ever become the kind of 7-9apg guy with great D that Snow and Jackson were, all the more power to you.
> 
> 
> Obviously Chris Wallace thought Joe Forte would be a decent point guard, so why can't we Celtic fans agree with that? Doc Rivers played Mark Blount all last year even though he was a waste of space and oftentimes his rotations sucked. But we should just agree with that? Give me a break! Did Doc Rivers become God when I wasn't looking and I have to blindly agree with his assessments?
> ...


Did I say West will be a 7-9 apg player? 

Chris Wallace...LOL. 

I'm pretty sure Doc Rivers, being a former point guard himself, is a better judge of talent than Chris Wallace. 

And are we quickly forgetting that the year before Blount just had a career year, which was the only reason why he was in the rotation. Apparently Doc must have thought that he could regain that form that he had the previous year. When he didn't he got moved to the end of the bench. 

But whatever, it's fun to get a good laugh every once in a while from people that like to write off a player who doesn't have a full season under his belt. Especially from the same kind of person that said before oh let's give Antoine a full training camp with the Celtics and he'll improve. Does that not apply to Delonte? A 2nd year player, who missed all of training camp last year, and played only 14 minutes per game, in 39 games last season? Or does it apply to washed up has-beens only? You would think if it applies to washed up has-beens, then it could apply to possibly a never-will-be?


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

SamIam said:


> *Pros: The team offense doesn't take a Banks-like nose dive with him at the point*. Will absolutely kill teams that try to double off him onto Paul or Ricky or Al. Savvy enough to get the ball into the hands of the best players rather than wanking time off the shot clock. No training camp, missed 1/3 of season, playing new position and makes huge plays in the first minute he gets put on the court. Won't give his coach an ulcer like a certain talented but completely clueless teammate of his. Averaged more assists in college than his more heralded teammate Jameer.


This is true, somewhat.

When Banks is in the game, we score 6.3 less points per game per 100 possessions compared to when he is not in the game. When West is in the game, we score 4.7 less points per game per 100 possessions. The difference is that Banks makes up these 6.3 points per 100 possessions on defense to have a zero effect in all, but when West is in the game we give up 2.6 more poinst per game per 100 possessions than when he isn't playing, which makes his net -2.1 points per game per 100 possessions.


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## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

> Did I say West will be a 7-9 apg player?


You said it was unfair to judge Delonte on the games he played. If you didn't believe that he could achieve those kind of stats then you don't really have any point to what you were saying.



> But whatever, it's fun to get a good laugh every once in a while from people that like to write off a player who doesn't have a full season under his belt.


How's that horse up there?



> Especially from the same kind of person that said before oh let's give Antoine a full training camp with the Celtics and he'll improve.


Unfortunately, your memory is hazy. My words were something along the lines of "It's a pipe dream that he'll get it, but it's worth a try" because yes, he would've been better for this team than Al will this year. Far from saying he'll improve if we give him a full training camp. But hey, nice try!



> Does that not apply to Delonte? A 2nd year player, who missed all of training camp last year, and played only 14 minutes per game, in 39 games last season?


Does reading my posts before responding apply to you? Obviously not or you couldn't have possibly missed this:

"As for West: I'm not saying that he's garbage."
"But that doesn't necessarily mean he'll develop into a good NBA player." 

Does that sound like I'm writing him off to you? If it does, you might want to re-do that Grade 12 reading comp test.



> Or does it apply to washed up has-beens only?


Why I'm still typing mystifies me as your entire argument thus far has been based on something I didn't even say, but hey, who cares if you're putting words in my mouth, right?


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## JRJRJR (Apr 22, 2003)

P-Dub34 said:


> Mark Jackson
> 
> Second All-Time in assists, and an excellent defender. Can West do this stuff? No.


You lost all credibility with that comment. Mark Jackson may have been the worst perimeter defender that I ever saw in the NBA.


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## LX (Oct 14, 2004)

P-Dub

Put it this way. Instead of filling your post with snide remarks and sorry attempts at sarcasm, how about you just state your opinion of what you think Delonte West IS capable of rather, than his downfalls?


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## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

> You lost all credibility with that comment.


You lost all credibility when you were openly homer-ish in your evaluation of West and cited three PG's who West will liekly never be as good as in comparision.



> Mark Jackson may have been the worst perimeter defender that I ever saw in the NBA.


S'funny, I don't remember saying "perimeter defender". If I'm not very mistaken (and I could be...it's happened before), he _was_ an effective defender in the halfcourt, anyways.



> Put it this way. Instead of filling your post with snide remarks and sorry attempts at sarcasm


When you make things up and try and base an argument on these imagined remarks, what do you want in return?



> how about you just state your opinion of what you think Delonte West IS capable of rather, than his downfalls?


Certainly. West is a good enough shooter that, if given minutes, it's foreseeable that he develops into a 10ppg scorer. He's just undersized not just in height but in terms of bulk and strength as well, and when you aren't quick enough to guard other PG's, that doesn't bode well. He's a very good FT shooter but when you don't slash often (if ever), you don't get a chance to use that kind of skill. I don't see him every averaging over 3 or 4 assists per game unless he does an absolute about-face in his PG skills, which again is possible but, IMO, unlikely. It's really a shame he isn't a 6'6" shooting guard.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

Delonte West is capable of becoming the spot-up shooter that teams have in the back of their rotation, who hustles. He'll probably see one big contract in his career (think Brian Cardinal).


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## LX (Oct 14, 2004)

What do you think of a comparison of Delonte West to say...Lindsey Hunter?


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## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

Can't Hunter actually play defense?

I could see West with career numbers around 9.5ppg, 2.4rpg, and 2.9apg on 37% shooting from three.


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## DWest Superstar (Jun 30, 2005)

Premier said:


> Delonte West is capable of becoming the spot-up shooter that teams have in the back of their rotation, who hustles. He'll probably see one big contract in his career (think Brian Cardinal).


1 more big contract than Banks


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

Hunter is likely the best point guard defender in the league, along with Chris Duhon, Earl Watson, and Marcus Banks.


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## LX (Oct 14, 2004)

I was referring more to the fact that they are both undersized players that are really shooting guards trapped in the body of a point guard. Hunter never learned how to pass, and like West is a pretty good perimeter shooter. 

When you matchup their numbers, West is the better offensive player, while Hunter is the better defensive player, going by effective FG%.

Back in Hunter's prime he was a much better defender than he is currently. Now, statistically speaking West IS better than Hunter on the defensive end. 

Hunter- 47.4% eFG% allowed
West- 46.1% eFG% allowed

Obviously if Hunter was in his prime he would probably trump West's numbers.


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## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

> 1 more big contract than Banks


OOOO snaaap! No you didn't!!



> I was referring more to the fact that they are both undersized players that are really shooting guards trapped in the body of a point guard. Hunter never learned how to pass, and like West is a pretty good perimeter shooter.


Yeah, but if you want to compare them I'm not going to just forget defense.



> along with Chris Duhon, Earl Watson, and Marcus Banks.


Kirk Hinrich isn't a point guard anymore?


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## LX (Oct 14, 2004)

I edited my previous post with the defensive numbers from this season. But like I mentioned, Hunter is old, and West was a rookie, so the numbers are skewed.


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## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

Where do you get these eFG% #'s?


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## LX (Oct 14, 2004)

www.82games.com


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## DWest Superstar (Jun 30, 2005)

I just don't get how people say West can never be a starter in the league in when his 7 starts he has put up very good numbers and there were no trends that show inconsistency as a rookie


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

He is not a starting point guard.


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## LX (Oct 14, 2004)

Premier said:


> He is not a starting point guard.


Care to base that on anything?


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## JRJRJR (Apr 22, 2003)

P-Dub34 said:


> You lost all credibility when you were openly homer-ish in your evaluation of West and cited three PG's who West will liekly never be as good as in comparision.
> 
> 
> S'funny, I don't remember saying "perimeter defender". If I'm not very mistaken (and I could be...it's happened before), he _was_ an effective defender in the halfcourt, anyways.


Don't know what you're talking about. I never evaluated West and I never cited three PG's.

And Jackson? He was NEVER an effective defender in the halfcourt. For the Knicks, Pitino used to have to come up with ways to help Mark like doubling the opposing PG out front to get him to give up the ball. And for the Pacers, he used to sit at crunchtime. Why? Because he couldn't guard anyone.


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## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

> I just don't get how people say West can never be a starter in the league in when his 7 starts he has put up very good numbers and there were no trends that show inconsistency as a rookie


West could possibly be a starter if you're looking for a PG who can shoot the jumper instead of being a prototypical one. Lots of guys in the NBA suck at D.


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## LX (Oct 14, 2004)

P-Dub34 said:


> West could possibly be a starter if you're looking for a PG who can shoot the jumper instead of being a prototypical one. Lots of guys in the NBA suck at D.


Prototypical point guards are a rare breed these days. Granted point guards should have the ability to pass the ball a little more than West does, but it seems like more and more these days that the new standard point guard is one that can score just as well, and if not better than they can shoot.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

JRJRJR said:


> You lost all credibility with that comment. Mark Jackson may have been the worst perimeter defender that I ever saw in the NBA.


Then you aren't very old, because he was much better before he turned 50. He was also, unlike Delonte, extremely strong.


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## LX (Oct 14, 2004)

Also, it differentiates a lot depending somewhat on the style of offense your particular team runs. Some point guards, such as Steve Nash, Stephon Marbury, Francis, Kidd, etc. generally are in charge of their team on the floor and handle the ball the majority of the time. The thing is...here in Boston with the fast break style of offense that the Celtics run, the point guard isn't usually the one controlling the offense. In fact a lot of the time Doc has Pierce or Davis run the offense while on the floor.


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## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

The thing is, the only way West can score is shoot...opposing PG's will know that they won't get beat off the dribble and just sit in Delonte's pocket the whole game, especially if he's the primary ballhandler.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

Lanteri said:


> Care to base that on anything?


Starting point guards are supposed to be good with a ball in their hands. West, under pressure, just passes the ball and cannot even dribble it up the court. He is a catch and shoot player that will hustle.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

JRJRJR said:


> And Jackson? He was NEVER an effective defender in the halfcourt. For the Knicks, Pitino used to have to come up with ways to help Mark like doubling the opposing PG out front to get him to give up the ball. And for the Pacers, he used to sit at crunchtime. Why? Because he couldn't guard anyone.


Pitino played full court pressure defense, something Jackson couldn't do. He played much better for Stu Jackson & Riley. He was also a pretty good defender for Larry Brown (the reason he played 30-35 m/g). If you're referring to his second tour of duty with Indiana, he was past 35, and there aren't many great 35+ year old defenders at the one (see Payton, Gary).


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## JRJRJR (Apr 22, 2003)

ehmunro said:


> He played much better for Stu Jackson & Riley.


I don't think he ever played for Riley.



ehmunro said:


> He was also a pretty good defender for Larry Brown


No, he was not.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

Lanteri said:


> Also, it differentiates a lot depending somewhat on the style of offense your particular team runs. Some point guards, such as Steve Nash, Stephon Marbury, Francis, Kidd, etc. generally are in charge of their team on the floor and handle the ball the majority of the time. The thing is...here in Boston with the fast break style of offense that the Celtics run, the point guard isn't usually the one controlling the offense. In fact a lot of the time Doc has Pierce or Davis run the offense while on the floor.


The reason for that is that West can't run the offense. When Payton was on the floor he ran the offense. This year Dickau will run it when he's on the floor. Delonte's skills are almost all off the ball, and it's tough to play the one when you're an off the ball player (unless your team is running the tri, in which case the one's job is to spot up in the corner and shoot treys).


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## patrick_wandalowski (Aug 5, 2003)

I only compared DWest's athleticism to Jackson, Tinsley, and Snow. My point was that you don't have to be a super athlete to be an effective PG.

Don't cite Snow's assists. He passed the ball to Iverson, who shot 30 times a game. That's how he got his assists.

And for the 2:1 assist:TO ratio, that is good for a SG in college. The SG usually doesn't lead the team in assists and usually has a high number of TOs since he is the 1st option. 4 assists and 2 TOs in a college is solid for a 2G.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

JRJRJR said:


> I don't think he ever played for Riley.


I don't think you're old enough to remember.


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## JRJRJR (Apr 22, 2003)

My bad. Riley did have him for one year before he shipped him off to the Clippers because he couldn't play half court defense.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

patrick_wandalowski said:


> I only compared DWest's athleticism to Jackson, Tinsley, and Snow. My point was that you don't have to be a super athlete to be an effective PG.


The problem is that all of the players you cited were/are _very_ strong (which West isn't) and had/have a very good first step (which West doesn't). Is Pierce an athlete like T-Mac or Kobe? Nope. But he's as strong as an ox (seriously, he's stronger than a lot of starting 4s), has a very good first step, and knows how to apply his leverage. These are all things West lacks, on top of the run & jump athleticism. This is why I really can't see him being anything more than an Erick Strickland style combo-guard off the bench. Only without Strickland's defense.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

JRJRJR said:


> My bad. Riley did have him for one year before he shipped him off to the Clippers because he couldn't play half court defense.


It would help your cause _a lot_ if you didn't shoot your mouth off about things you didn't know.


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## JRJRJR (Apr 22, 2003)

And your point?


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## KingHandles (Mar 19, 2005)

Damn I cant wait until this season starts so West can man up an show you all whats real. He may not show you he is a "prototypical" point guard, but he will show you he's worth keeping because he's going to be very good. Doesn't matter if he can run the point in my opinion cuz like you all said he isn't a point. That undersized SG is going 2 show and he will have gained some speed this off season I bet and he should become a penetrating player, like a lil' micro mini Pierce just not near as good _yet_.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

It is hard to play shooting guard when you're 6'2". West can only do this (effectively) if he is playing alongside a tall point guard who will guard West's man on defense.


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## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

> And your point?


Know what you're talking about before you call someone out on it?



> I only compared DWest's athleticism to Jackson, Tinsley, and Snow. My point was that you don't have to be a super athlete to be an effective PG.


Yes, but what you don't seem to fathom is that these other "unathletic" guards have skills in their repetoire that West doesn't. So to put it as bluntly as possible, Snow/Jackson/Tinsley don't have super athleticism but have excellent PG skills. West doesn't have either. That's why saying West can be successful because these guys were is flawed; because these guys had skills that West doesn't.



> like a lil' micro mini Pierce just not near as good yet.


He will never be nearly as good as Pierce, and no part of his game is comparable to Pierce's except that they can both bury a jumper.


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## DWest Superstar (Jun 30, 2005)

Premier said:


> It is hard to play shooting guard when you're 6'2". West can only do this (effectively) if he is playing alongside a tall point guard who will guard West's man on defense.


West is 6'4


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

Tony Allen is 6'4", Delonte West is not.


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## DWest Superstar (Jun 30, 2005)

Premier said:


> Tony Allen is 6'4", Delonte West is not.


I go by listings


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## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

If you wanna go by listings, how about the pre-draft listing that said he was 6'2"?


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## DWest Superstar (Jun 30, 2005)

I just looked at the team photo, it seems Tony Allen has about .5 an inch on West. They are side by side


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## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

No matter how tall West is, he needs to add some muscle.


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## patrick_wandalowski (Aug 5, 2003)

once again, i was comparing their athleticism...and West has something they don't have....a jumpshot.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

P-Dub34 said:


> If you wanna go by listings, how about the pre-draft listing that said he was 6'2"?


6'1-1/2". 6'2-3/4" _with_ shoes on.


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## DWest Superstar (Jun 30, 2005)

ehmunro said:


> 6'1-1/2". 6'2-3/4" _with_ shoes on.


then I guess Allen is 6'3 WITH shoes


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## DWest Superstar (Jun 30, 2005)

patrick_wandalowski said:


> once again, i was comparing their athleticism...and West has something they don't have....a jumpshot.


It is amazing how people disregard that. IT is more importent then they think


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

JRJRJR said:


> And your point?


Well, if you were half as bright as you think you are, you might have actually looked to see who was running the Clippers at the time, the guy that took over the reins there the year before. The guy that actively went out and acquired Mark Jackson. The same guy that moved on to Indiana and _again_ reacquired Jackson. No doubt what he saw in Jackson was the "terrible D". That's obviously why he kept trading for the guy.


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## DWest Superstar (Jun 30, 2005)

ehmunro said:


> Well, if you were half as bright as you think you are, you might have actually looked to see who was running the Clippers at the time, the guy that took over the reins there the year before. The guy that actively went out and acquired Mark Jackson. The same guy that moved on to Indiana and _again_ reacquired Jackson. No doubt what he saw in Jackson was the "terrible D". That's obviously why he kept trading for the guy.


I love how this goes to people trying to use Mark Jackson as to why Delonte is not good.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

Gerald Green said:


> then I guess Allen is 6'3 WITH shoes


Allen is 6'4" with shoes, 6'3" without.



patrick_wandalowski said:


> once again, i was comparing their athleticism...and West has something they don't have....a jumpshot.


And once again, you're still wrong. For all the same reasons I listed earlier. They may not be much better runners/jumpers than Delonte, but they are/were all _much_ stronger with _much_ better first steps and better lateral quickness. They also can/could do something West can't, they all dribble better with their off hands than West does with his functional one.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

Gerald Green said:


> I love how this goes to people trying to use Mark Jackson as to why Delonte is not good.



Actually, you have that backwards, the other fellow claimed that Mark Jackson _proves_ that Delonte will be an all star. Not the case. And it will remain not the case no matter how hard you stomp your feet and whine.


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## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

> Actually, you have that backwards, the other fellow claimed that Mark Jackson proves that Delonte will be an all star. Not the case. And it will remain not the case no matter how hard you stomp your feet and whine.


Gawd dayum, EH, I gotta learn to just leave the talking to you (when we agree, that is). You just put it out there a lot better than I could have.


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## JRJRJR (Apr 22, 2003)

ehmunro said:


> Actually, you have that backwards, the other fellow claimed that Mark Jackson _proves_ that Delonte will be an all star. Not the case. And it will remain not the case no matter how hard you stomp your feet and whine.


There you go again. The comment someone made was you didn't have to be a super athlete in order to be a SOLID point guard. Not all star, not even star, just solid.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

Let's try this for the 17,532,896th time. Delonte West is an order of magnitude _less_ athletic than the guys you called comparable. Delonte continues to lack not just run & jump athleticism, but he's severely lacking in strength & lateral quickness. So, saying that guys that are much more athletic than Delonte proves that Delonte will be great remains a hideous comparison.


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## Bad Bartons (Aug 23, 2002)

This thread is giving me a headache!


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## KingHandles (Mar 19, 2005)

Same here...
It's amazing how much we all disagree on our little 2nd year player.
I can't wait until we know for sure wheres he's heading after this season...Good or bad...Then this will be over...


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