# Do you think Jack will ever be as good a PG as Telfair...



## ryanjend22 (Jan 23, 2004)

We should have given him (Telfair) a year at the helm.

He is going to be putting up monster numbers in Boston.

If im not mistaken, he had 17 pts and 4 rebs tonight...and left at halftime. boston will go to the playoffs IMO.


I understand the choice the organization made but i bet the majority of fans will wish we gave him another shot eventually.


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## blakeback (Jun 29, 2006)

ryanjend22 said:


> Do you think Jack will ever be as good a PG as Telfair


I think he already is


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## BlayZa (Dec 31, 2002)

and the game before wasnt it like 7pts 5to and 1 assist?

id take jack over telfair anyday of the week and twice on sundays


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Its kind of funny how the Celtics drafted another point guard after they traded for him. The guy they drafted is putting up just as good, if not better numbers than Telfair and he's turning over the ball a lot less, which is something head coaches put a lot of consideration into. Some could make the case that Telfair isn't even the best point guard on that team. Delonte West is.

IMO, Telfair got traded into a much worse position than he had last year with the Blazers. The Celtics are stacked with good young PG's. Rondo, West and Allen Ray.


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## Talkhard (May 13, 2003)

ryanjend22 said:


> If im not mistaken, he had 17 pts and 4 rebs tonight...and left at halftime.


Nope. He had 10 points, 2 assists, and 4 rebounds. And he played 38 minutes, so there's no way he left at halftime.


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## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

I think Jack is already a better floor leader than Telfair. He isn't ever going to be as quick, or as good at ball handling, he also might not end up as good as Telfair. I think Jack will be more consistant throughout his career though.


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## hasoos (Jan 3, 2003)

I am pretty sure that Jack already is better then Telfair. He has some tools that Telfair will never have, and vice versa, but Jack is more of a known factor from game to game, better defender, and at the end of last season, was actually voted the PG most players would want to have starting on their "end of season" coaching questionaire.


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

ryanjend22 said:


> I understand the choice the organization made but i bet the majority of fans will wish we gave him another shot eventually.


I really doubt that a majority of fans would rather have Telfair Theo and Jack, then Jack Raef and Roy. Besides, I'd hope that the organization would make their decisions based on what they feel is best for the overall team rather then backing a single player who they feel the fans like. 

It's my bet that what a vast majority of fans really want is a winner with a shot of going deep in the playoffs.

STOMP


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## meru (Jul 2, 2003)

ryanjend22 said:


> I understand the choice the organization made but i bet the majority of fans will wish we gave him another shot eventually.


...until they're reminded that, effectively, we got Roy for him, at which point they will say 
"My God! What were Boston _thinking!?_"


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## Blazer Maven (Sep 27, 2005)

hasoos said:


> I am pretty sure that Jack already is better then Telfair. He has some tools that Telfair will never have, and vice versa, but Jack is more of a known factor from game to game, better defender, and at the end of last season, was actually voted the PG most players would want to have starting on their "end of season" coaching questionaire.


Ditto.


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## Yega1979 (Mar 22, 2003)

Telfair's got a syndrome that's plauging too many NBA players these days, poor shooting. And it's hard to run an offense when your guards can't shoot. Jack already has a nice jumpshot, and he's much bigger and stronger.

And though Telfair had the reputation of being a great passer, I did not see a great floor general in him. Simply young spark plug who was great at taking it to the hoop.


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## SheedSoNasty (Dec 31, 2002)

I think Jack is a different kind of point guard than Telfair is. While Telfair is flashier and probably quicker, I envision Jack as being more proficient and defensive minded.

On top of that, I think it's a question of whether Roy or Telfair will be better since they were traded for one another.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

ryanjend22 said:


> We should have given him (Telfair) a year at the helm.
> 
> He is going to be putting up monster numbers in Boston.
> 
> ...


does it matter that Jack had 16 of his points in the 3rd quarter...alone?


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## Coatesvillain (Jul 17, 2002)

zagsfan20 said:


> IMO, Telfair got traded into a much worse position than he had last year with the Blazers. The Celtics are stacked with good young PG's. Rondo, West and Allen Ray.


Allan Ray isn't a point guard.


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## Foulzilla (Jan 11, 2005)

I do think Telfair will be better in the long run, but I hope I'm wrong. Regardless, neither of them have proven much at this point, so I wouldn't say either of them is even near a sure thing.


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## mook (Dec 31, 2002)

just so happens that the two Celtics games were on league pass, so I watched them. the thing I noticed more than anything else was Marbury pretty much scored on Telfair at will. Kidd didn't have an outstanding game, but it wasn't really Telfair's doing--he just didn't seem that aggressive. Boston was at a big size disadvantage in both games, but less so when Rondo was running the point. I'm tired of having the shortest back court in the league. 

any team can live with one defensive liability (Randolph) but it's pretty darned difficult to have two. even the Mavericks couldn't take it to the next level until Nash was traded, leaving Dirk as the only marginal defender. 

we've hitched our wagon to the Randolph contract, and although some may not like it, there aren't many good other options. Jack compliments Randolph, filling in for his biggest weakness (defense) while also proving he was a half-court PG. Telfair augmented Randolph's weaknesses with his running game and inability to defend. 

Telfair will probably put up the better stats over his career (much like Damon did in 2000), but Jack is the better guy to run this team (much like Greg Anthony was in that same year).


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## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

Telfair will never be the defender that Jack is already. Jack also shoots a higher percentage than Telfair and always will. I think you asked the wrong question: Will Jack ever be as FLASHY as Telfair. The answer to that one is no.


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## Blazer Ringbearer (Jan 28, 2003)

I think Roy is far and away worth the risk of Telfair eventually being better than Jack.


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## tlong (Jan 6, 2003)

Jack > Telfair


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

tlong said:


> Jack > Telfair


Agreed....Jack plays within the system, and himself.


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## sa1177 (Feb 18, 2005)

Blazer Ringbearer said:


> I think Roy is far and away worth the risk of Telfair eventually being better than Jack.


No doubt...will prove to be the steal of the draft and Boston will regret making that deal for many years to come.


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## Spoolie Gee (Feb 3, 2005)

tlong said:


> Jack > Telfair


Yup. Jack's D and leadership is better and will always be better then Telfairs.


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## TallBottom (May 24, 2006)

Spoolie Gee said:


> Yup. Jack's D and leadership is better and will always be better then Telfairs.


To say nothing of his being taller and not as full of hype. I wish Telfair well but was never really sold on him. With Jack I'm willing to wait and see.


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## Spoolie Gee (Feb 3, 2005)

I will say this...

Telfair is fun to watch. Lot's of sizzle, just not enough steak.


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## ebott (Jan 7, 2003)

Telfair's stats thus far in Boston: 13.6 ppg, 3.2 apg, 1.8 rpg, 2.6 turnovers
Jack's stats thus far as our starter: 15.5 ppg, 2.5 apg, 4 rpg, 3 turnovers

They look about even to me. How anyone would say that Telfair is obviously better and gee wiz I hope one day Jack can be as good as him cause if not we sure screwed up by trading him is beyond me. But if we're comparing any two players it should be Telfair to Brandon Roy since that's what the trade was.

Brandon's stats thus far: 13.5 ppg, 2.5 apg, 5.5 rpg, 3.5 turnovers

All three guys look about even. Then again, we're only two games into the pre-season. Maybe ryanjend22's prediction will come true and Telfair will blow up in Boston this season. That would be gret. But I'll still take Brandon over Telfair as I really think he's the better player.


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## BBert (Dec 30, 2004)

Mook and Fork said what I was going to. 

Jack is already better: better defender; stronger; better shooter; better rebounder; better finisher. 

And as others have said, the real question is who will be better: Telfair or Roy. Same answer. 

Plus, I have a strong feeling Sergio will be better than Telfair also. He's a different kind of entertaining point guard, more of a floor maestro than Telfair is, a better true passer who I think sees the game better; and he's bigger; and he's probably a better shooter. 

Telfair's drive and dish style will only take him so far in the NBA. I like Telfair, but he's one injury away from losing his only advantage (quickness) and being out of the league.


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## Utherhimo (Feb 20, 2005)

we have a telfair but a better passer a telfair within the system aka SERGIO! 

Jack, Sergio, Roy> telfair theo


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

ebott said:


> Telfair's stats thus far in Boston: 13.6 ppg, 3.2 apg, 1.8 rpg, 2.6 turnovers
> Jack's stats thus far as our starter: 15.5 ppg, 2.5 apg, 4 rpg, 3 turnovers
> 
> They look about even to me. How anyone would say that Telfair is obviously better and gee wiz I hope one day Jack can be as good as him cause if not we sure screwed up by trading him is beyond me. But if we're comparing any two players it should be Telfair to Brandon Roy since that's what the trade was.
> ...


Don't start the whole being able to evaluate a player solely on those particular stats. That's a whole big level of falacy.


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## Ruff Draft (Nov 21, 2004)

Jack is the kind of PG a championship team has. Telfair isn't.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

I'm not going to bash Telfair, but I will say that Jack is a better player right now. He plays more under control, he's a better shooter (especially mid-range) and he's a significantly better defender.

But Telfair is almost two years younger and has more upside in his game. He'll never be a big PG, but he can continue to get stronger and if his jumpshot becomes even decent, it'll improve his game incredibly. His footspeed and quickness are things that are very uncommon even amongst NBA PGs.

If I had to choose one long-term, I'd definitely choose Telfair over Jack.

I'm not quite sure the question is as simple as Roy v. Telfair, either. It's Roy + Jack v. Telfair + whatever we could have received for Jack. 

Of course, we don't know what we could have got for Jack, but might it have been as much as we got for Telfair? I'd bet so. I really don't know, however, and I'm pleased that the team was able to acquire Roy, rather than hold onto both of them and wait to find out which player is better long-term.

Ed O.


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## tlong (Jan 6, 2003)

Ed O said:


> I'm not going to bash Telfair, but I will say that Jack is a better player right now. He plays more under control, he's a better shooter (especially mid-range) and he's a significantly better defender.
> 
> But *Telfair is almost two years younger and has more upside in his game*. He'll never be a big PG, but he can continue to get stronger and if his jumpshot becomes even decent, it'll improve his game incredibly. His footspeed and quickness are things that are very uncommon even amongst NBA PGs.
> 
> ...



Sorry, but you cannot have more upside to your game if you're a freaking midget.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Coatesvillain said:


> Allan Ray isn't a point guard.


Not according to Doc Rivers.


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## Blazer Maven (Sep 27, 2005)

Ed O said:


> But Telfair is almost two years younger and has more upside in his game. He'll never be a big PG, but he can continue to get stronger and if his jumpshot becomes even decent, it'll improve his game incredibly. His footspeed and quickness are things that are very uncommon even amongst NBA PGs.
> 
> Ed O.


What Telfair needs to do to improve is to make players better around him. He has tunnel vision now, he is primarily focused on breaking down his man and finishing. He doesn't see the floor and open teammates as well as say, Jack and Paul do. This may change as Telfair gains experience.

Telfair also does not use his quickness on defense to gain an advantage. He doesn't get position and take charges like he could and should be able to. He also doesn't play the passing lanes well, as someone with his speed should be able to.

Until he learns how to play like the little guard that he is, he will continue to be a massive liability on defense. At his size, he will never be the Steve Nash-type guard that can distribute and control a game on offense, overcoming his defensive inadequacies. At this point, I see Sebastian as filling an Earl Boykins role as a change of pace back up point.

I see Rondo as being the Celtics PG of the present and future, with Bassy as an effective back up.


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## 2k (Dec 30, 2005)

meru said:


> ...until they're reminded that, effectively, we got Roy for him, at which point they will say
> "My God! What were Boston _thinking!?_"


Thats what I'm saying. I was not a fan of drafting Roy at #4. Picking up Roy and Aldridge and just losing Telfair and Khryapa is a steal.


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## meru (Jul 2, 2003)

Another reason we'll never be kicking ourselves for giving up on Telfair


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## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

tlong said:


> Sorry, but you cannot have more upside to your game if you're a freaking midget.


Chris Paul?


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## Spoolie Gee (Feb 3, 2005)

Another thing to keep in mind is that we've never seen Jack play 100% healthy and he's still looked like a better PG in my eyes.


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## ThatBlazerGuy (May 1, 2003)

Jack is already better than Telfair and will continue to be better than him. But, I strongly believe that Rondo will be better than both Jack and Telfair.


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## hasoos (Jan 3, 2003)

ThatBlazerGuy said:


> Jack is already better than Telfair and will continue to be better than him. But, I strongly believe that Rondo will be better than both Jack and Telfair.


Well at least you gave me a good laugh! Rondo? Are you kidding me?


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## Oldmangrouch (Feb 11, 2003)

tlong said:


> Sorry, but you cannot have more upside to your game if you're a freaking midget.


Say hello to the coach of the Manute Bol all-star team! :biggrin:


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## Oldmangrouch (Feb 11, 2003)

A few quick observations.

1) Given the difference in age, it may be another 2-3 seasons before we really know who is better.

2) It will help Telfair that he is no longer in a situation where people knee-jerk and compare him to Damon.

3) If Telfair had gotten mugged in Portland, can you imagine the reaction? People would be blaming *him* and would be screaming for his scalp!


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## Blazer Ringbearer (Jan 28, 2003)

meru said:


> Another reason we'll never be kicking ourselves for giving up on Telfair


Holy crap, that was Rondo?

A PG with a tip dunk?!


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## tlong (Jan 6, 2003)

Fork said:


> Chris Paul?


Chris Paul can shoot.


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## QRICH (Feb 2, 2004)

I was a huge backer of Sebastain when we drafted him. However, I was really dissipointed to find out as time went on that he wasn't that great playmaker he was tabbed to be coming out of the draft. He looks for his shot a lot! He isn't as bad as his cousin, Marbury, but he's pretty close in that regard. Stephon Marbury-lite.

Jack runs the offense better and plays defense. At nearly 6'4", you wont see too many PG's post him up. I'm fed up with 5'10"-5'11" point guards getting abused on the low block.


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## SheedSoNasty (Dec 31, 2002)

hasoos said:


> Well at least you gave me a good laugh! Rondo? Are you kidding me?


He's looking awefully good thus far...


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

tlong said:


> Sorry, but you cannot have more upside to your game if you're a freaking midget.


Earl Boykins


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## hammer (Oct 29, 2005)

ryanjend22 said:


> Do you think Jack will ever be as good a PG as Telfair?


Jack is so much better right now that it ain't even funny, and yet, you are asking if he'll ever be as good as Telfair, lol? 

You only have to watch a few games to pick up on the fact that Jack is a VASTLY superior defender. Telfair makes Jack look like Gary Payton. Even Stevie Wonder can see it. Most of the posters in this thread don't even know what's up, because the defense should have been mentioned first and foremost. I see a couple fans who were smart enough to put major emphasis on it, though.

Also, if we're talking PG slot, conservatism is key. Telfair doesn't know anything about it, compulsive gambler that he is.

You like yourself some reckless, non-defense-playing PGs. It's okay, though. Here in Chicago, I have to put up with fans who praise the fundamentally-retarded Ben Gordon. They just don't know any better, and it's terribly sad. The vast majority of NBA fans are a little bit more than just stupid, I'd say. It ain't about flash. It's about winning. 

And what wins? Defense and conservative offense. That's how you build.

What is Jarrett Jack? He is a selfless, conservative offensive PG with enormous defensive upside who brings a spiffload of intangibles to the table. 

What is Sebastian Telfair? He is a selfish, compulsive gambler out of the PG slot who couldn't even guard me, let alone a professional basketball player.

Way to know your NBA!


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## YardApe (Mar 10, 2005)

Telfair will always be a defensive liability much like Damon was. Anyone can pass over him with ease and the opposing PG can "at will" post him up. These same problems are not even present with Jack. 

Jack is the next version of Greg Anthony, Chauncy Billups and Terry Porter. This guy is a keeper for many, many years. I love this kid! :clap:


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## Spoolie Gee (Feb 3, 2005)

hammer said:


> Jack is so much better right now that it ain't even funny, and yet, you are asking if he'll ever be as good as Telfair, lol?
> 
> You only have to watch a few games to pick up on the fact that Jack is a VASTLY superior defender. Telfair makes Jack look like Gary Payton. Even Stevie Wonder can see it. Most of the posters in this thread don't even know what's up, because the defense should have been mentioned first and foremost. I see a couple fans who were smart enough to put major emphasis on it, though.
> 
> ...


Very good post from someone that isnt even a Blazer fan. :cheers:


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## ryanjend22 (Jan 23, 2004)

Spoolie Gee said:


> Very good post from someone that isnt even a Blazer fan. :cheers:


its his opinion. and saying i dont know anything about basketball is a load of ****.


ive coached, reffed, and played (still continue to do so). when i coached, i turned the smallest point guard in the league into the MVP, so size aint everything buddy. we went to the championship by the way.


so your cute little "great job on knowing your NBA!" comment is unwarranted.

Telfair is a better point guard in my opinion. and he will be regarded as such as the years progress. you can have your opinion, thats fine, but dont attempt to unnecessarily discredit mine.


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## Spoolie Gee (Feb 3, 2005)

ryanjend22 said:


> its his opinion. and saying i dont know anything about basketball is a load of ****.
> 
> 
> ive coached, reffed, and played (still continue to do so). when i coached, i turned the smallest point guard in the league into the MVP, so size aint everything buddy. we went to the championship by the way.
> ...


Uh, I didnt say anything about your NBA knowledge. I just agreed with the posters comments about Telfair and Jack. So aim your comments at him, not me.

Also you stated your opinion like it was a fact by implying in the thread title that Jack isnt a better PG right now when that's very debatable.


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

QRICH said:


> Jack runs the offense better and plays defense. At nearly 6'4...


While I hope for the best for JJ, I'd rather we kept out discussion based facts. Jack measured 6'2.5 barefoot at his pre-draft, which is at least average sized for an NBA starting point. I'm with Mook not wanting multiple weak links on D, so I'm very much behind the decision to go with Jack and Roy as the future starting backcourt.

STOMP


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## ryanjend22 (Jan 23, 2004)

Spoolie Gee said:


> Uh, I didnt say anything about your NBA knowledge. I just agreed with the posters comments about Telfair and Jack. So aim your comments at him, not me.
> 
> Also you stated your opinion like it was a fact by implying in the thread title that Jack isnt a better PG right now when that's very debatable.


yeah, its debatable. took too much offense to it so my bad.


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## soonerterp (Nov 13, 2005)

I like Telfair and wish him well, but in my view Jack is the better of the two ... simply by virtue of his college experience in a tough conference (the ACC) and the fact that he played in very significant games as a collegian that were viewed by many more people than Telfair's high school games (for example, the 2004 Final Four vs. Oklahoma State and the 2004 National Final against eventual champion Connecticut).

While I understand and try to reason the belief that college players -- particularly if they are "stars" of a sort (JJ Redick, Adam Morrison of this year's rookie class; perhaps a Rashad McCants or even a Juan Dixon of the recent past) may tend to have offenses built around them and that might hamper their transition to the NBA (especially a system that might hide a player's shortcomings, like, for example -- and please don't attack me Zags fans, I'm just using this as a f'rinstance: Morrison and defense), I still think the college experience in terms of big games in front of large audiences and dealing with that kind of pressure is more beneficial to preparation for a pro career, if not the game on the court, where the rules of the college game differ from those of the NBA.


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## 2k (Dec 30, 2005)

hammer said:


> Jack is so much better right now that it ain't even funny, and yet, you are asking if he'll ever be as good as Telfair, lol?
> 
> You only have to watch a few games to pick up on the fact that Jack is a VASTLY superior defender. Telfair makes Jack look like Gary Payton. Even Stevie Wonder can see it. Most of the posters in this thread don't even know what's up, because the defense should have been mentioned first and foremost. I see a couple fans who were smart enough to put major emphasis on it, though.
> 
> ...



Last I looked the fundamentally retarded Gordon was a winner. I would say he is more of a SG though.


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