# 2013 Offseason Thread



## Bogg

With the draft lottery shaking out last night, and more than a few teams picking in the top ten looking to trade out of the draft for veteran help, it seems like a good time to start keeping track of things. Orlando, Detroit, and Sacramento need point guards in a draft weak at the spot, Charlotte and Phoenix just need talent of some sort, and Cleveland is already talking about moving the first overall pick for veterans to put together a playoff push. 

Post all thoughts/news/rumors/speculation here.

To kick things off, if Ainge can get Garnett and the Clippers to agree to a straight swap for Deandre Jordan, I wouldn't mind sending Rondo to Orlando and getting Mclemore, salaries(Hedo's expiring contract?), and some future assets (the NYK or Denver 2014 pick, etc) back. Run with Bradley-Mclemore-Green-Sullinger-DAJ and hope to get a high pick in 2014 for a quick rebuild.


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## Floods

Take Withey at 16


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## Bogg

http://bostonherald.com/sports/celtics_nba/boston_celtics/2013/05/notebook_rookie_jared_sullinger_lets_doc_rivers_and_co



> Pre-draft invites
> 
> The Celtics’ first pre-draft workouts will feature two of their biggest needs — centers and point guards.
> 
> Steven Adams, the Pittsburgh center who has moved up a lot of charts since the combine in Chicago last week, has received an invitation along with fellow 7-footers Jeff Withey (Kansas) and Colton Iverson (Colorado State).
> 
> The point guard group is equally intriguing, including Peyton Siva (Louisville), Erick Green (Virginia Tech) and Phil Pressey (Missouri). Pressey, the son of former Celtics assistant coach Paul Pressey, played his first two years of high school basketball at Cushing Academy before moving to Dallas.


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## E.H. Munro

Someone just told me that CSN Sports Night floated the rumor that Pierce was going to Phoenix for #5. Presumably that would be Marcin Gortat, Channing Frye and #5. I'm hoping they were full of shit because that would mean that we would officially be the Milwaukee Bucks v2.0 and that the 90s are making a comeback and that I might not live to see another contender in Boston.

For one thing Boston would be bringing in two marginal prospects and dropping them into the biggest cancer ward this side of Dana Farber's. And this assuredly means that Boston will be forced to raze the franchise to the ground a year too late and for green stamps on the dollar as Jeff Green's recently revived value will likely disappear with a year of playing with "Wednesday Night Game Against a Nobody" Rondo all year long. And Rondo after a year of pouting due to playing on a team that no one wants to see, and demanding a max contract, will be lucky to fetch Boston a late first.


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## Floods

Yeah I don't care for that one. To be honest I don't like the idea of dealing for any picks in this draft unless it's incredible value.


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## Bogg

Pierce to Phoenix would be decent for Pierce, at least, because there's no way Sarver can say no to saving $10 million, so Paul could pick his next club. He'd look good in San An, Memphis, or LAC.


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## Basel

> *• How can the Celtics improve this offseason? Through free agency? The draft? Trade?*
> 
> The draft will be a big point of emphasis. At No. 16, they'll be picking higher than any year since 2007 (when they traded the No. 5 pick, who turned out to be Green, for Ray Allen on their way to winning the championship that season). The draft lacks star talent at the top, but the Celtics will be optimistic of finding a player to join their younger rotation of Rondo (27 years old), Green (26), Avery Bradley (22), Brandon Bass (28), Jared Sullinger (21) and Courtney Lee (27). But they'll have to enter the draft without assistant GM Ryan McDonough, who left Tuesday to become the Suns' GM.
> 
> If Garnett's money were to come off the books and Pierce were to be bought out, the Celtics could have a limited amount of cap space -- not enough to bring in an expensive free agent, but helpful in a potential trade.
> 
> The truth is that the Celtics don't have a lot of assets to deal. This is not like the summer of 2007, when they had built up enough young talent to complete trades for both Allen and Garnett while holding on to Rondo and Kendrick Perkins. The Celtics endured a lot of pain to acquire those young assets; they're nowhere near that position now after six years of contention.
> 
> *• Should the Celtics push for a major acquisition this summer or rebuild with younger players while waiting for major cap space to emerge in 2015?*
> 
> Ainge can be expected to investigate all potential trades, including those that may involve Rondo, who is expected to return from ACL surgery by early next season. The goal for the Celtics is to recycle their roster as quickly as possible while avoiding multiple years in the lottery. If there isn't an opportunity for them to pull off a sign-and-trade for someone like Paul Millsap or Kevin Martin, the likely move will be to focus on the draft and continuing to develop their young talent with the goal of making a big move in 2014 or beyond.


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nb...line-kevin-garnett-paul-pierce/#ixzz2UhbTRZ9V


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## E.H. Munro

Bogg said:


> Pierce to Phoenix would be decent for Pierce, at least, because there's no way Sarver can say no to saving $10 million, so Paul could pick his next club. He'd look good in San An, Memphis, or LAC.


If Orlando is dead set on taking a point guard (as Chad Ford seems convinced), then maybe a clean out the cupboard move would be in order. Phoenix would want more than just Pierce, just to avoid the stigma of selling a top 5 pick, so Pierce/Bradley for Frye/Beasley, Gortat and #5, Rondo & Bass for Turkeyglue, Warrick & #2 (allowing the Magic to hold on to the Howard TPE for another deal and getting Boston out from under Bass' deal), and then Garnett for Bledsoe, Butler & a 2014#1 (and if necessary they could expand the deal by waiting for July 1st and make it Garnett/Lee for Bledsoe, Butler, Willie Green and the pick). 

This allows them to take one of McLemore or Noel at #2 and then one of Oladipo or Len at #5, accept a year of suckage waiting for Turkeyglue's contract to come off the books and hoping that they can move Beasley & Gortat mid season to a playoff team desperate for help in the middle (maybe the Wizards for Okafor?). Then go into the summer of '14 with a top 8 pick, cap space and possibly a supporting cast,


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## Bogg

Orlando's going to wind up with a point guard one way or the other, and I don't believe they're taking Burke #2 at all. Something along the lines of the Rondo trade that you outlined makes some sense, but I feel like the real move for them would be a trade with the Clippers for Bledsoe. Trading Afflalo and a spare part for Butler and Bledsoe, combined with taking Mclemore at #2, would leave Orlando with a fun young core.

EDIT: Even though we disagree as to _why_ it's in the best interest of the Cs to trade Rondo, I do feel that if you're going to do something, then do it, and I'd be more than okay with blowing out most/all of the useful veterans with multi-year commitments for a full-on rebuild.


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## E.H. Munro

Trading Bledsoe for Afflalo leaves the Clippers no way of addressing their problems at the 4/5. They have seriously bad defense there, and Odom just isn't the sort to take control of Griffin and Jordan. So I think Garnett/Lee would have a lot more attraction for them, especially since Afflalo does nothing to convince CP3 to stay which would leave the Clippers with a Billups/Afflalo backcourt and terrible front court D.

And that's going to be the rub with LA, they need to know Paul's returning first and foremost, so the Magic would be looking at guys like Jeff Teague or dealing Afflalo/Warrick for Beasley/Frye/#5 and praying for a miracle.


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## Bogg

E.H. Munro said:


> Trading Bledsoe for Afflalo leaves the Clippers no way of addressing their problems at the 4/5. They have seriously bad defense there, and Odom just isn't the sort to take control of Griffin and Jordan. So I think Garnett/Lee would have a lot more attraction for them, especially since Afflalo does nothing to convince CP3 to stay which would leave the Clippers with a Billups/Afflalo backcourt and terrible front court D.
> 
> And that's going to be the rub with LA, they need to know Paul's returning first and foremost, so the Magic would be looking at guys like Jeff Teague or dealing Afflalo/Warrick for Beasley/Frye/#5 and praying for a miracle.


If the Clippers offer DAJ for Garnett, in my opinion Ainge blinks first, and it would still leave them Bledsoe to address their problems on the wing.


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## E.H. Munro

I hope not because Jordan is functionally worthless _without_ Garnett. If the Clippers deal Bledsoe first then Ainge has them by the short hairs because the Clippers are suddenly _very_ short of ways to convince Paul to stay.


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## Bogg

E.H. Munro said:


> I hope not because Jordan is functionally worthless _without_ Garnett. If the Clippers deal Bledsoe first then Ainge has them by the short hairs because the Clippers are suddenly _very_ short of ways to convince Paul to stay.


I'd like to get Bledsoe, but I think the near-exact match in salaries that DAJ for Garnett provides, coupled with the big hole at center (barring Gortat coming back in a Pierce trade) leads to Boston getting Deandre instead. DAJ to Boston coupled with Bledsoe to Orlando makes too much sense for the Clips.


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## E.H. Munro

But it makes no sense for Boston as Jordan is really awful at both ends of the floor. If the Clippers are tossing in #1s in 2014, 2016 and 2018 maybe. But really without someone to beat him up in practise daily and force him to learn to play NBA defense there's no point to having him.

EDIT: Because to be clear, if they're trading for #5 they can just draft Alex Len who's already better than Jordan (by virtue of being cheaper and less stupid).


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## Bogg

We'll see. Ainge was talking about both with the Clippers at the deadline, so he clearly sees value in Jordan. Remember that he wanted James Harden in the Perkins trade, thought he was getting Harden in the Perkins trade, and then settled for Jeff Green in a staring contest.


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## E.H. Munro

I think the difference is that Jeff Green has actual utility and Garnett has a lot of talent whereas Perkins was strictly muscle. Jordan doesn't do anything beyond rebound and constantly gets lost on defense, and Boston would be losing the one guy that could teach him. That's before getting into his lack offense that forced the Clips to sit him in fourth quarters. Unless there's a third team involved willing to take Jordan it makes no sense to trade Garnett for a guy that needs to be his understudy (because we can safely say that his coaches aren't getting through to him).


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## Bogg

File this in the "I'll believe it when I see it" column, but it's worth at least mentioning.....

https://twitter.com/NBAonNBCBoston/status/341540747062956032



> People close to Ray Allen claiming he is thinking about opting out of his contract hoping to return to Boston for 1 year & retire a celtic.


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## E.H. Munro

I guess it's possible if Boston's trading Rondo. Otherwise I can't see it.


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## Bogg

That's what I figure. If Ainge swaps out Rondo for a power forward and another piece or two, maybe we get a farewell circuit in Boston. I'd expect that he stay in Miami either way, though.


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## Diable

DeAndre Jordan isn't worthless. He could really help you guys get Wiggins or Jabari Parker.


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## E.H. Munro

Diable said:


> DeAndre Jordan isn't worthless. He could really help you guys get Wiggins or Jabari Parker.


That would be the one positive to him.


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## Floods

Bogg said:


> If Ainge swaps out Rondo for a power forward and another piece or two, maybe we get a farewell circuit in Boston.


gag


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## Bogg

If Ainge decides to keep the band together, I'd like to see what it would take to get Utah to play along with a sign-and-trade that brings Millsap or even Al Jefferson to Boston. Talk probably starts with either Courtney Lee(as much-needed help on the perimeter) or Brandon Bass(as a more affordable rotation big), and then you start discussing things like this years' first round pick, a future protected first, Melo/Sullinger, Jordan Crawford as salary filler, etc.(obviously you aren't sending out _all_ that, just listing assets that would definitely be on the table). If Utah assumes that they can't retain both of those two _and_ develop Favors/Kanter, they may be interested into turning them into other assets.


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## Floods

gag x2


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## Bogg

Floods said:


> gag x2


Bostons' options are extremely limited. Their possibilities are essentially to blow the whole thing up and become a 20-win team next year, to find the right veteran re-tread that gives them a good return and makes them a second-tier team in the East for a shot at the second round, or to tread water and fight for a seven or eight seed. There's no magic bullet that's going to make them a title favorite.


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## Floods

I'm aware of that, but anything other than the tear-down is a shitty option.


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## Bogg

Well, then let's just stomp our feet and cry if Ainge doesn't unload the entire roster for fifty cents on the dollar.


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## Floods

Glad I have your permission to do so.


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## UNHFan

No matter what Danny does we're not winning a championship next year! He needs to begin to unload and rebuild this team. What good would it do to keep the "band" back together and then get the 6-8 seed and lose in the first round.


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## Bogg

http://bostonherald.com/sports/celtics_nba/boston_celtics/2013/06/source_vinnie_del_negro_could_fill_need?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+bostonherald%2Fsports%2Fbasketball%2Fceltics+%28Boston+Celtics+-+Celtics+%26+NBA+-+BostonHerald.com%29


> Now that the NBA’s prime coaching pool is shrinking by the day as Doc Rivers contemplates his Celtics future, Danny Ainge has no choice but to consider a backup plan if his coach of the last nine seasons leaves.
> 
> Two league sources with direct knowledge of the situation confirmed yesterday that if Rivers does indeed leave, former Clippers coach Vinnie Del ***** will receive serious consideration as his replacement.


................I really, really hope not.


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## Floods

Can I post 'gag' in response to that, or will I be given dirty looks for crying and stomping my feet?


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## R-Star

Del Taco in Boston. That's awesome.


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## Bogg

Floods said:


> Can I post 'gag' in response to that, or will I be given dirty looks for crying and stomping my feet?


In this case, it's completely warranted. So says the arbiter of acceptability.


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## E.H. Munro

Bogg said:


> http://bostonherald.com/sports/celtics_nba/boston_celtics/2013/06/source_vinnie_del_negro_could_fill_need?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+bostonherald%2Fsports%2Fbasketball%2Fceltics+%28Boston+Celtics+-+Celtics+%26+NBA+-+BostonHerald.com%29
> 
> 
> ................I really, really hope not.


If Boston is bringing in younger players to subordinate to an offensively challenged headcase who will be throwing alley oops to amuse himself, then they definitely need a coach that will clash with their vet "star" to ensure that they finish deep in the lottery.


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## Diable

VInny is a fine coach so long as you have no serious aspirations. If you wanted to win important games there's no ****ing way you'd hire him, but if you're just going to spend a couple of years trying to retool he's fine. Hell he's about perfect for Boston if they blow it up. No chance he outperforms whatever roster you put out there the next couple of years


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## Bogg

It's been posted on the main board, but......

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/9396044/boston-celtics-los-angeles-clippers-relaunch-trade-talks-sources-say



> The Celtics and Clippers have relaunched discussions on a new trade framework that could bring a resolution to the complicated talks regarding coach Doc Rivers and star forward Kevin Garnett potentially going to Los Angeles in a multiplayer deal, according to sources close to the process.
> 
> With the Clippers adamant that prized young guard Eric Bledsoe will not be included in a trade for Garnett, sources told ESPN.com that one proposed tweak to end the weekend stalemate in the talks is the prospect of the Clippers taking back the contract of either Courtney Lee or Jason Terry from the Celtics.
> 
> Shedding the long-term money owed to either Lee or Terry, sources said, could persuade the Celtics to relent on their demand that Bledsoe be included in the trade. A deal could be completed later Monday or by Tuesday, sources said.


It's looking like Doc and Garnett are going to the Clippers with either Terry or Lee (probably Lee), with DeAndre Jordan, Caron Butler, and a draft pick coming back Bostons' way. Pierce is primed to be dealt in to a separate squad looking for cap relief, and is looked at as likely to join Doc and Garnett back home in LA once waived.

In a related story, it's entirely in play that the starting centers for EH's two favorite teams will be DeAndre Jordan and Dwight Howard, so at least there's some sort of silver lining in all this.


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## Diable

Damn Terry's contract is just as bad as Jordan's


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## E.H. Munro

Bogg said:


> In a related story, it's entirely in play that the starting centers for EH's two favorite teams will be DeAndre Jordan and Dwight Howard, so at least there's some sort of silver lining in all this.


I may not watch Houston or Boston at all next year if this happens. The problem I have here is that this deal essentially means that Boston's stuck as is. No sign & trade deals until the summer of 2016 unless they shed salary. It's just plain crappy.


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## Bogg

E.H. Munro said:


> I may not watch Houston or Boston at all next year if this happens. The problem I have here is that this deal essentially means that Boston's stuck as is. No sign & trade deals until the summer of 2016 unless they shed salary. It's just plain crappy.


I'd actually prefer that the Clippers take _both_ Lee and Terry if Boston's going to tear it down (as they appear to be doing). It's the least they could do if Boston's only getting LA's 2013 pick _and_ no Bledsoe. There's a full max contract tied up between Lee, Terry, and Bass right now, and all of those contracts have multiple years left on them.


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## E.H. Munro

Bogg said:


> I'd actually prefer that the Clippers take _both_ Lee and Terry if Boston's going to tear it down (as they appear to be doing). It's the least they could do if Boston's only getting LA's 2013 pick _and_ no Bledsoe. There's a full max contract tied up between Lee, Terry, and Bass right now, and all of those contracts have multiple years left on them.


I'd actually prefer to lose Terry and Bass. Lee's not great, but he's the kind of vet you want around when you're bringing in a high lottery pick to build around. Plus a 4/5 rotation of Jordan/Sullinger/Melo/Green is the heart and soul of a 30 win team. Then next summer you just need to unload Jordan and Rondo so that your lottery pick isn't playing with headcases.


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## Bogg

E.H. Munro said:


> I'd actually prefer to lose Terry and Bass. Lee's not great, but he's the kind of vet you want around when you're bringing in a high lottery pick to build around. Plus a 4/5 rotation of Jordan/Sullinger/Melo/Green is the heart and soul of a 30 win team. Then next summer you just need to unload Jordan and Rondo so that your lottery pick isn't playing with headcases.


Terry and either one of Bass or Lee going for expirings makes me happy. Nothing against them as players, but they just don't make sense at that kind of money in Boston anymore.

EDIT: There _is_ always the Nets. Bass and Terry both played with Kidd in Dallas; if you can get Humphries, Brooks, and the 22nd pick for those two deals, that isn't all bad.


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## Bogg

So as of this morning it looks like the trade is 90% of the way there, and Boston's holding out for a second first-round draft choice, or possibly for the Clippers to take two of the Celtics' long-term contracts as well. I'm fine with the C's possibly blowing this whole thing up asking for more, because after Doc heads to the broadcast booth and Pierce is shipped out, KG's going to have to open up his list of teams he's willing to go to if he wants to win anything.


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## E.H. Munro

At this point Boston should just call the Lakers and offer them Pierce, Garnett and their non-guaranteed contracts for Gasol/filler enough to generate a $4 million TPE for Boston and a pair of future seconds to send to Houston for Thomas Robinson. Gasol can always be moved to Atlanta after they strike out on Howard.


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## Bogg

Dallas would probably give up a pick or two for Gasol, as well, if they don't land either of Howard or Paul.


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## Bogg

> Sources confirmed on Sunday that the Clippers will sign Rivers to a three-year, $21 million contract. They will send a 2015 first-round pick as compensation to the Celtics, who have agreed to release the coach from the three years, $21 million he has remaining on his deal with the club.
> 
> Sources close to the process told ESPN that the Clippers believe the deal with Rivers will clinch Chris Paul's signature on a new five-year max contract. Paul becomes an unrestricted free agent July 1.


http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/9415256/los-angeles-clippers-clips-agree-principle-doc-rivers-deal-sources

Looks like the Clippers have finally put together a passable deal for Doc, despite their best efforts to the contrary. I like getting the 2015 unprotected pick, as it gives the Clippers two summers and two trade deadlines to screw things up before the selection is conveyed. It sounds like Stern is looking to disallow any sort of follow-up deal involving Garnett and Jordan, though, which may actually work out in Boston's favor if it forces Garnett to soften is stance on not allowing a trade. 



> -- The Cavs have likely spoken to the Celtics about small forward Paul Pierce's availability. The latest rumor is the Cavs offering their two second-round picks for the 35-year-old Pierce. Pierce's $15.3 million contract for next year would become guaranteed if he's dealt.


http://www.news-herald.com/articles/2013/06/22/sports/nh7153027.txt?viewmode=fullstory

This is interesting, because the Cavaliers have have a _lot_ in the way of attractive assets beyond the #1 pick in this years' draft and are looking to make the playoffs next season. I'd love to find a way to get the Memphis 2015 with protection that keeps the pick in the lottery in a trade. The dream scenario would be to include Garnett and Andy V while getting the two second-rounders, the massive trade exception, _and_ the Memphis first, but that's highly unlikely to happen.


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## Diable

Pierce might threaten to retire rather than accept a trade to Cleveland. Of course they could probably put together a better win-now roster between now and then, but it is hard to see how they could put together a team Pierce would want to play out his career on.


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## Bogg

Diable said:


> Pierce might threaten to retire rather than accept a trade to Cleveland. Of course they could probably put together a better win-now roster between now and then, but it is hard to see how they could put together a team Pierce would want to play out his career on.


Cleveland's one of those teams that's primed to make a big leap next year if they handle this summer properly. I almost expect them to grab a bottom-four seed if they grab a real starter at small forward next year.


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## Wilt_The_Stilt

Nets interested in KG? I don't know if he would want to go there, but it seems like they would have some pieces in the way of expirings, a young talent in Brooks, draft picks, and the ability to take back Lee or Terry.


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## Bogg

Wilt_The_Stilt said:


> Nets interested in KG? I don't know if he would want to go there, but it seems like they would have some pieces in the way of expirings, a young talent in Brooks, draft picks, and the ability to take back Lee or Terry.


Nets have nothing. They keep getting people to give up a real package for that Humphries/Brooks/2013 #1 package, but the problem is that it's not actually worth anything. The best they could do is find a guy whose contract is a little too big and doesn't make sense anymore for that team - think Andrea Bargnani. Garnett isn't happening.


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## Fergus

It looks like the Celtics have traded Garnet and Pierce to the Nets. Between the this trade and the moves during the draft, Danny Ainge has jump started the rebuilding project.


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## Bogg

Fergus said:


> It looks like the Celtics have traded Garnet and Pierce to the Nets. Between the this trade and the moves during the draft, Danny Ainge has jump started the rebuilding project.


Agreed, I'm shocked the Nets actually okayed three unprotected firsts and the right to swap in 2017. I don't like the Olynyk pickup at all, but getting four unprotected firsts from 2014-2018 gives the Celtics a big war chest should a major star demand out anytime from 2015-2017. I think Rondo sticks around for at least this summer, but it'd be very interesting to see what the market would be if Danny made him available.


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## Bogg

Terrence Williams was released yesterday, as the first 200,000 of his contract would have become guaranteed today. Can't say I'm surprised, if he had stayed out of trouble Danny probably would have given him a shot at making the club, but that's that.


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## Whitephenom41

Very sad offseason for the Celtics organization. I was hoping that Pierce would have the opportunity to finish his career in Boston, but I guess that wasn't meant to be with Ainge at the helm.

At least they have a cache of first round picks over the next four years which give them the opportunity to land a future star.


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## Bogg

Whitephenom41 said:


> Very sad offseason for the Celtics organization. I was hoping that Pierce would have the opportunity to finish his career in Boston, but I guess that wasn't meant to be with Ainge at the helm.
> 
> At least they have a cache of first round picks over the next four years which give them the opportunity to land a future star.


Welcome to the board. It's really unfortunate that Boston couldn't keep a contender around Pierce for his last few years, but at least he was able to go to a team with a shot, and all those firsts are going to be very valuable trade assets down the line. I'm hoping Ainge can unload one or two more contracts and maybe pick up another asset or two, but I'm glad the organization picked a direction and went with it early in the summer.


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## Whitephenom41

Agreed. It would have been very disheartening if Boston traded their core right before the start of the season. At least the fans can expect a down year now.


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## Floods

A. Sherrod Blakely ‏@SherrodbCSN 40s
#Celticstalk: Danny Ainge said Jamie Young as well as Jay Larranaga will be part of the staff of #celtics new head coach Brad Stevens.


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## E.H. Munro




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## Bogg

Olynyk's release point is almost even with his face. NBA defenders are going to turn that shot into a turnover machine.


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## Bubbles




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## Floods

Nice to have you here, Marshon.


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## Bogg

Kris Joseph was recently released. It'll be interesting to see if Ainge can lose some contracts in a trade, or if Boston has to release a few players to get under the 15 limit, especially with Ainge seeming intent on signing Pressey and the Brazillian center.


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## E.H. Munro

Weirdly enough the Pistons may _still_ be angling to trade for Rondo according to Gary Washburn. You can scroll down to the end because it's buried in the last section of his NBA Notes column.



> Just because the Pistons acquired Brandon Jennings in a sign-and-trade deal with the Bucks doesn’t mean they’ve lost interest in Rajon Rondo. In fact, they could eventually use Jennings as a trade chip and seek to acquire Rondo. There are going to be several interested parties in Rondo, and that number could increase when he shows he’s fully recovered from anterior cruciate ligament surgery


I suppose if we're talking something like Rondo/Olynyk for Jennings/Monroe I can live with it. At least Boston would have an NBA center going forward.


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## Bogg

E.H. Munro said:


> I suppose if we're talking something like Rondo/Olynyk for Jennings/Monroe I can live with it. At least Boston would have an NBA center going forward.


I don't totally hate that, but I don't like it either. Jennings and Monroe are both bad enough on defense that we don't have to worry about the team actually being good, and it frees up plenty of time for Avery to just focus on D and off-ball cuts. I _do_ hate, however, that Detroit can't work that trade until a few months into the season.


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## E.H. Munro

Isn't it mid December?


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## Bogg

E.H. Munro said:


> Isn't it mid December?


Thought it was mid-January. I can live with a month and a half of Rondo proving he's healthy enough to drive up his trade value. I don't want it to extend into February, because I think the C's as currently constructed are going to be far more mediocre than I believe you do.


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## Floods

Oh god, Jennings on the Celtics? Only one who could keep us from Wiggins or Parker then would be Adam Silver.


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## UNHFan

If you can get a good big for Rondo I'm all in! I hope he comes back suing well as that will raise his trade value!


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## E.H. Munro

Floods said:


> Oh god, Jennings on the Celtics? Only one who could keep us from Wiggins or Parker then would be Adam Silver.


I think the real issue would be stabilising the C spot with Monroe. Jennings is just filler.


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## Floods

No, if we're tanking, then Jennings' sub-40 FG% is a hell of a building block toward that goal.

Monroe's been the anchor of some pretty awful teams in Detroit, I'm not worried about him taking us out of lottery contention.


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## Bogg

I see a lot of Al Jefferson in Greg Monroe, both good and bad. Don't get me wrong, I like Monroe, but he's going to be looking for Roy Hibbert money next summer, which isn't ideal. I suppose the rational there is the same Charlotte took with Jefferson this summer - that Monroe is good enough to contribute to a winner down the line, but not good enough to pull you out of a high lottery pick the next year or two. I could live with it just because Monroe is four years younger (seems like he'd be younger than that) and is probably going to age better, but I'd sure like to get a better return on Rondo than that.

EDIT: For what it's worth, I'm going to waver back on forth a half-dozen times on each and every possible Rondo trade. I fully expect to be both completely on board with the Jennings/Monroe package and entirely uninterested at different times at least once more.


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## Floods

Kelly Olynyk Will Compete for NBA Rookie of the Year



> COMMENTARY | When forward Kelly Olynyk was drafted as the 13th overall pick in the 2013 NBA draft, the basketball world already knew that it was likely future Hall of Famers Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett were on their way to play for the Brooklyn Nets.
> 
> So when it was announced that the 7-footer Olynyk would be traded from the Dallas Mavericks to the Boston Celtics on draft night, he must have instantly known that he would have the chance to prove himself right away and fill the void left by the departure of two of the team's most important players in recent franchise history.
> 
> With Olynyk's combination of size and skills, he has a great chance of winning the NBA's next Rookie of the Year Award.


There was an article on yahoo a few days ago that said the Celtics would win the divison. Has to be the same author.


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## Bogg

Floods said:


> Kelly Olynyk Will Compete for NBA Rookie of the Year
> 
> 
> 
> There was an article on yahoo a few days ago that said the Celtics would win the divison. Has to be the same author.


Yea......I don't think we're going to have to worry about that. I mean, what's Olynyk's best-case scenario for next year? Brandon Bass redux?


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## E.H. Munro

Given the lackluster nature of this last draft class and the "someone has to score the points" roster that Boston has, I honestly don't have a problem with this. Boston has, literally, one reliable scorer. Their "best" player struggled offensively while playing with all stars and defenses keyed to surrender wide open jumpers to him. So I think that Olynyk has a good shot at averaging 12-14 a game which would likely put him in the running for RoY. None of this should be interpreted as an endorsement of his value, I think he's basically Louis Amundson, which says everything you need to know about this last draft class.


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## Bogg

The frontcourt may not have any stars, but at the moment it's overloaded enough that I have a hard time seeing Olynyk getting 35 minutes a night and double-digit touches. Bass and Sullinger are still around, Humphries is on the roster at the moment, and Ainge wouldn't have signed Faverini unless he thought the guy could get on the court.


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## E.H. Munro

I think he can get on the court because they all suck so much. And Sullinger is coming off major surgery, so I think he's even more limited. That's before we get into the fact that I'm pretty sure I've had bowel movements quicker than Sullinger, and I'm not convinced that he can actually be a primary help defender at the NBA level (which is also true of Olynyk and every other 4/5 on the roster except for Khardashian).


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## Bogg

I'm not saying he won't play, but there are rookies that are going to get regular starters' minutes start-to-finish this coming season, and I don't see Olynyk being one of them. There's almost certainly going to be three to five rookies who put up better volume stats just by virtue of having nobody to challenge them for their spots.


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## E.H. Munro

I'm not sure how many other options Boston has at the 5 at this point. A 6'10" Euroleague backup C is his stiff competition unless Fab Melo suddenly got coordinated. I just don't see any way that Olynyk _isn't_ going to get 24-28 m/g.


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## Bogg

E.H. Munro said:


> I just don't see any way that Olynyk _isn't_ going to get 24-28 m/g.


We're actually in agreement here, but he's going to be very hard-pressed to put up ROY stats in 25ish minutes a night. Guys like Oladipo, Zeller, Burke, MCW, Mclemore, and Porter (even though he's clearly "the other guy" on the perimeter there) are all essentially locks for a regular starting job with no real competition behind them, and I'd expect the majority of those guys to play well over 30 minutes a night.


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## Floods

BLOCKBUSTER TRADE



> The Memphis Grizzlies and the Boston Celtics completed a trade on Thursday that sent Fab Melo and cash considerations to Memphis and Donte Greene to Boston, the Celtics announced. Greene, though, is likely to be waived.


I feel like I should know who Donte Greene is.


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## Bogg

Floods said:


> BLOCKBUSTER TRADE
> 
> 
> 
> I feel like I should know who Donte Greene is.


He's the guy that Demarcus Cousins punched for passing the ball to Tyreke Evans at the end of a game. His contract isn't guaranteed, so he'll be gone in short order anyway.


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## E.H. Munro

Floods said:


> I feel like I should know who Donte Greene is.


I don't see why. It's not like he's going to be here past the guarantee date of his deal. Boston essentially traded Fab Melo and the cash to pay his contract for a luxury tax bonus check.


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## E.H. Munro

Welcome the newest member of the Boston Celtics (and he may be Wyc's favourite player)...


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## Bogg

I was going to make a post about how I've been waiting for the next shoe to drop to get the roster down to a workable number, but apparently I just haven't been paying attention. After Donte Green is cut, Boston will be at 14 players and a hair under the luxury tax, so this might just be it until the first big round of injuries happen to contenders and teams start looking at Rondo and Green, or even Lee and Bass on the cheap. 

As of now, it looks like Boston will be going Rondo-Bradley-Green on the perimeter with the underwhelming grouping of Bogans/Brooks/Lee/Pressey/Wallace fighting for backup minutes and Jordan Crawford at the end of the bench. C/PF is much more murky, as Humphries/Bass/Sullinger/Faverini/Olynyk has absolutely no pre-established hierarchy. Any one of those five could wind up in the starting lineup or collecting a steady stream of DNP-CDs by January and I wouldn't be surprised. 

Some things I'd _like_ to see, regardless of how likely they may actually be:

1) Courtney Lee proves steady and reliable enough on the perimeter that an injury leads to a team actually coughing up an expiring (or at least a shorter contract) and a minor asset for him. Think the Joel Anthony/James Jones contracts plus the Philly first that's going to turn into two seconds coming from Miami for him. I originally had Bass here as well, but his contract expires at exactly the right time, so I don't have an issue with him sticking around.

2) Jordan Crawford out of the locker room. I don't care if he's released, packaged in a trade, whatever. Just go somewhere else. Brooks has the potential to wind up here as well if he doesn't wind up in the rotation and becomes a malcontent (unless you already consider him one).

3) Keith Bogans' non-guaranteed second and third years on his contract turning him into a useful trade chip. 

4) Rajon Rondo: stable leader

5) Jeff Green: Houston Rockets starting forward


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## E.H. Munro

Bogg said:


> 1) Courtney Lee proves steady and reliable enough on the perimeter that an injury leads to a team actually coughing up an expiring (or at least a shorter contract) and a minor asset for him. Think the Joel Anthony/James Jones contracts plus the Philly first that's going to turn into two seconds coming from Miami for him. I originally had Bass here as well, but his contract expires at exactly the right time, so I don't have an issue with him sticking around.
> 
> 2) Jordan Crawford out of the locker room. I don't care if he's released, packaged in a trade, whatever. Just go somewhere else. Brooks has the potential to wind up here as well if he doesn't wind up in the rotation and becomes a malcontent (unless you already consider him one).
> 
> 3) Keith Bogans' non-guaranteed second and third years on his contract turning him into a useful trade chip.
> 
> 4) Rajon Rondo: stable leader
> 
> 5) Jeff Green: Houston Rockets starting forward


1) I think it's very likely that this is the case. Boston has to play him because if Bradley's proven one thing so far it's that he's too small to play the SG spot full time. As for the the Sixers, they are going to be one of those teams that improves quickly. They have a lot of supporting cast players, and more importantly they have them at the 4/5, which is the foundation of a good defensive squad. Compare that to Boston, whose best center is the 6'8" guy and whose best PF is either the short armed seven footer with bad feet or the reality TV star. Give Philly a high first next year and they could be back in the postseason.

2) Amen. And Brooks too. Though they're both only too happy to shoot their teams out of games.

3) That's obviously the entire point of the deal, to be combined with Bass or Lee to take on someone else's max/near max deal.

4) And for Santa Claus to deliver an unprotected Phoenix #1 

5) I suppose Green for Asik closes one hole in the lineup while simultaneously turning Boston into the worst offensive team in league history and allowing them to run the table in the Wiggins sweepstakes.

To your list I'll only add Boston taking on Nash's corpse in exchange for Khardashian and the right to swap Brooklyn's first with LA's.


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## Bogg

E.H. Munro said:


> 1) I think it's very likely that this is the case. Boston has to play him because if Bradley's proven one thing so far it's that he's too small to play the SG spot full time. As for the the Sixers, they are going to be one of those teams that improves quickly. They have a lot of supporting cast players, and more importantly they have them at the 4/5, which is the foundation of a good defensive squad. Compare that to Boston, whose best center is the 6'8" guy and whose best PF is either the short armed seven footer with bad feet or the reality TV star. Give Philly a high first next year and they could be back in the postseason.


I still think it's highly, highly likely that the Philly pick becomes two seconds, but the very slight chance that it's a 2015 first in the 15-20 range is part of the reason you'd give away a decent two-way player for dead contracts. Although, if MCW and Noel wind up better than expected and the Sixers are making two top-ten selections in this coming draft that both pan out, I guess they could go from worst-to-....well, eighth. 




E.H. Munro said:


> 3) That's obviously the entire point of the deal, to be combined with Bass or Lee to take on someone else's max/near max deal.


I'm nearly positive that what Bogans is making was the bare minimum they had to give him in order for the Nets trade to work. Keith was only too happy to get three times as much money this year as he would have otherwise, and the usefulness as a trade chip was just a happy, and very obvious, coincidence. 




E.H. Munro said:


> 5) I suppose Green for Asik closes one hole in the lineup while simultaneously turning Boston into the worst offensive team in league history and allowing them to run the table in the Wiggins sweepstakes.


Not only that, but if Rondo was shipped out in a deal that brought in a promising young swingman (say, Kidd-Gilchrist), I'd at least listen to Jeremy Lin packaged with some combination of picks and Euro players.


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## E.H. Munro

Bogg said:


> I still think it's highly, highly likely that the Philly pick becomes two seconds, but the very slight chance that it's a 2015 first in the 15-20 range is part of the reason you'd give away a decent two-way player for dead contracts. Although, if MCW and Noel wind up better than expected and the Sixers are making two top-ten selections in this coming draft that both pan out, I guess they could go from worst-to-....well, eighth.


Well, that's what I'm thinking. I don't think that Noel will be any good offensively, but as the help defender in front of Spencer Hawes? That's a pretty good 4/5 start. Thad Young is still there as a swing forward. Let them land a primary scorer at the 2/3 and I think they're ready to go. Boston? They've got a long way to go anywhere.



Bogg said:


> Not only that, but if Rondo was shipped out in a deal that brought in a promising young swingman (say, Kidd-Gilchrist), I'd at least listen to Jeremy Lin packaged with some combination of picks and Euro players.


Gilchrist hasn't really improved since he was 17, but he still has the potential to be a better version of Gerald Wallace, so I wouldn't be opposed to that as the starting point of a deal for Rondo.


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## Bogg

E.H. Munro said:


> Gilchrist hasn't really improved since he was 17, but he still has the potential to be a better version of Gerald Wallace, so I wouldn't be opposed to that as the starting point of a deal for Rondo.


Now I'm wondering if Cho could be talked into cashing in a bunch of his chips for Rondo and Green together.


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## E.H. Munro

It would need to come with a pretty lightly protected #1.


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## Bogg

E.H. Munro said:


> It would need to come with a pretty lightly protected #1.


They _do_ have Detroit and Portland picks that both have very good shots at being in 2014. Couple those two with Ben Gordon's expiring deal and some mixture of Kemba/MKG/Zeller(I know, I know, every rookie this year is awful)/future Charlotte firsts and the package might not be so bad, considering the limited market for Rondo.


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## Zuca

*Ex-Celtic Walter McCarty joins Stevens' staff*

http://www.nba.com/2013/news/08/21/celtics-coaching-staff-addition.ap/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpts


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## Bogg

Haha, a Walter comeback. Phenomenal.


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## Bogg

In what will likely be the last decision of this offseason, it looks like Ainge is going to wait until next summer to work out an extension with Avery Bradley. The move makes a world of sense, because sticking a poison pill provision on his deal would take him from being a legitimately attractive trade chip to a chore to include in any deal, and I expect Ainge will be on the phones quite a bit this coming season.


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