# Freeland update - not so good



## GOD (Jun 22, 2003)

http://www.euroleague.net/ulebcup/home/on-court/players/showplayer?clubcode=can&pcode=LOO
If I am reading these stats correctly, Joel has only played 37 minutes over the course of 5 games. During that time, he has only made 2 shots in 9 attempts and he has only pulled down 4 rebounds.

Now he is very young and such a small sample size does not mean much, but not good news any way you look at it.


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## dudleysghost (Mar 24, 2006)

Gosh, I really hope he doesn't decide to come over next season. We don't need a PF who isn't ready to choke off a roster spot while puttering around Anaheim.

We already have 11 roster spots filled next season, and I'm assuming we'll also want to extend the qualifying offer to Outlaw and re-sign Udoka. Then we have our own 1st round pick and 2 second rounders in the 2007 draft. We also have the MLE to maybe get a vet free agent. Oh, and then there's that little rumor that we're adding Nene and another 1st rounder...

The boat looks full Joel, can you wait for the next one please?


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## ehizzy3 (Jun 12, 2006)

yyyyyyyikes


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Next year the Blazer D-League franchise will be Idaho (with Orem, UT getting it's own D-League franchise next year). So Freeland would be in Boise, or whoever the Blazers sent there.


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## Yega1979 (Mar 22, 2003)

So he only plays in 10 games and shoots under 28% from the field? He could certainly join the Blazers and take the worst player in the NBA award away from Dan "YMCA" Dickau. If you choke that hard in Euroleague you're chances of becoming a good NBA player are very small.


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## ThatBlazerGuy (May 1, 2003)

He was born in 1987, give him some time he is only a kid.


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## barfo (Jan 2, 2003)

ThatBlazerGuy said:


> He was born in 1987, give him some time he is only a kid.


But so are the rest of the baby blazers... should we give him more time than Martell, Sergio, Aldridge...?

barfo


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## ThatBlazerGuy (May 1, 2003)

> But so are the rest of the baby blazers... should we give him more time than Martell, Sergio, Aldridge...?


Yes. Because this time last year he was bagging groceries while those players were playing competive ball. The kid is extremley inexperienced. Much more so than even a straight from HS kis like Webster. His physical talent isnt going to do him any good until he understands the game, which will take at least another 2 years. If he still sucks balls by the time he is 24 I will give up.


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## drexlersdad (Jun 3, 2006)

Yeah he has only been playing basketball since he was 17 or so.

Freeland draft bio



> Weaknesses: Joel must add some pounds to play in NBA against other PF, but it seems as though it won't be a problem for him ... *Needs to improve his balls handling skills *which can give him versatility to play some at SF position ...


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## craigehlo (Feb 24, 2005)

http://www.nbadraft.net/2006.asp

Aside from Paul Milsap, everyone picked past Freeland is similarly unimpressive. When we drafted him I figured the chances of him actually joining the roster were about the same as Nedzad Sinanovic. That is almost zero.


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## B_&_B (Feb 19, 2004)

Yega1979 said:


> So he only plays in 10 games and shoots under 28% from the field? He could certainly join the Blazers and take the worst player in the NBA award away from Dan "YMCA" Dickau. If you choke that hard in Euroleague you're chances of becoming a good NBA player are very small.


Dickau is far from the worst player in the league. IMO, that award goes to Mark Madsen.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

B_&_B said:


> Dickau is far from the worst player in the league. IMO, that award goes to Mark Madsen.


don't feed the trolls b&b.


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## drexlersdad (Jun 3, 2006)

Cheikh Samb drafted #51 is having a decent year for a 3rd league spainish team, 10/7 and progressing nicely.

also leon powe and craig smith have been contributing.


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## mgb (Jun 26, 2004)

I guess this means our draft was a bust.


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## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

mgb said:


> I guess this means our draft was a bust.


No kidding, ESPN was right. I hope we don't promote Pritchard. He really should have used that pick on Paul Milsap. EVERYONE knew that was the guy we needed.


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## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

barfo said:


> But so are the rest of the baby blazers... should we give him more time than Martell, Sergio, Aldridge...?
> 
> barfo


Have those players you mentioned been playing organized basketball for only 2-3 years?


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## mook (Dec 31, 2002)

HKF said:


> Next year the Blazer D-League franchise will be Idaho (with Orem, UT getting it's own D-League franchise next year). So Freeland would be in Boise, or whoever the Blazers sent there.


is that really true? sweeeeeet. sounds like I'll be scouting our d-leaguers.


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## decapod (Dec 11, 2006)

drexlersdad said:


> Cheikh Samb drafted #51 is having a decent year for a 3rd league spainish team, 10/7 and progressing nicely.
> 
> also leon powe and craig smith have been contributing.


Yes, but right now Cheick is recovering from a injury (tendinitis I think).

Sinanovic plays in the same league (his team is in the last spot of the league), and his is putting even less inmpressive numbers.

Freeland sucks hard right now.


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## Samuel (Jan 1, 2003)

HKF said:


> Next year the Blazer D-League franchise will be Idaho (with Orem, UT getting it's own D-League franchise next year). So Freeland would be in Boise, or whoever the Blazers sent there.


Not if the Blazers have any say in the matter.

No way is he ready to come here. He should make like Ginobili and stick around in Europe for 3 more years while he hones his game.


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## ebott (Jan 7, 2003)

dudleysghost said:


> Oh, and then there's that little rumor that we're adding Nene and another 1st rounder...


I haven't heard that one. Is it another Zach to Denver rumor?

If Freeland never plays in the NBA it won't be a big shock.


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## Samuel (Jan 1, 2003)

dudleysghost said:


> Oh, and then there's that little rumor that we're adding Nene and another 1st rounder...


Whose first rounder? I assume you're making this up, because Denver is without first rounders this year, and they can't trade away their first round draft pick next year (consecutive years rule). 

Where are you getting this from?


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## dkap (May 13, 2003)

> this time last year he was bagging groceries while those players were playing competive ball.


And this year he still isn't playing competitive ball, according to the box scores...

Dan


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## BIG Q (Jul 8, 2005)

dudleysghost said:


> *Gosh, I really hope he doesn't decide to come over next season.* We don't need a PF who isn't ready to choke off a roster spot while puttering around Anaheim.
> 
> We already have 11 roster spots filled next season, and I'm assuming we'll also want to extend the qualifying offer to Outlaw and re-sign Udoka. Then we have our own 1st round pick and 2 second rounders in the 2007 draft. We also have the MLE to maybe get a vet free agent. Oh, and then there's that little rumor that we're adding Nene and another 1st rounder...
> 
> The boat looks full Joel, can you wait for the next one please?


He is in the first year of a three year deal he signed with his Spanish team. He can come over for summer league but he is locked in over there. I understand he can easily be bought out, but why would Portland do that when he is not ready? Just because he was a draft pick does not mean he automatically gets to join the roster.


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## dudleysghost (Mar 24, 2006)

Samuel said:


> Whose first rounder? I assume you're making this up, because Denver is without first rounders this year, and they can't trade away their first round draft pick next year (consecutive years rule).
> 
> Where are you getting this from?


I didn't make it up. At the time this thread was created, there was a widespread rumor that Portland was offered Nene and a 1st round pick for Magloire, so his expiring contract could help Denver cut salary in the Iverson trade. I think Jason Quick even said it was going to happen. What really happened though is that Denver sent the pick to Philly and kept Nene, and now will have a nice lux tax bill next year unless they can cut salary some other way.


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## dudleysghost (Mar 24, 2006)

BIG Q said:


> He is in the first year of a three year deal he signed with his Spanish team. He can come over for summer league but he is locked in over there. I understand he can easily be bought out, but why would Portland do that when he is not ready? Just because he was a draft pick does not mean he automatically gets to join the roster.


Because he was picked in the first round, it does make his contract guaranteed. While he plays out his overseas contract, those guaranteed years can be deferred, but whenever Joel Freeland shows up for training camp, he's getting paid according to the salary of a #30 pick for that year and he has two or three (I can't recall) guaranteed years.

I don't know the details of his Spanish contract. If he has a three year deal, then he can just play out the remaining two years if he chooses. Or, if the contract has a buyout clause, then either he or the team can pay the buyout, and he can come over sooner. Obviously the team wouldn't want to now, but he can pay it himself if it is small enough and override the team's wishes. If there is no buyout figure, then he can just drop that Spanish contract whenever he wants, but it probably does have a buyout number.

As for his poor Euroleague play; it is disappointing. It can't be seen as a good sign, but I wouldn't give up on him just because of that. Euroleague teams are notorious for cutting young guys out of the rotation and cutting guys with NBA contracts out of the rotation. That could be why Freeland has only played 37 minutes. Whatever the case, we drafted Joel both because his foreign contract meant he could be brought over later, and because he reportedly played great in the European pre-draft combine. I doubt that was a fluke, although it remains to be seen.


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## #10 (Jul 23, 2004)

dudleysghost said:


> As for his poor Euroleague play; it is disappointing. It can't be seen as a good sign, but I wouldn't give up on him just because of that. *Euroleague teams are notorious for cutting young guys out of the rotation and cutting guys with NBA contracts out of the rotation.* That could be why Freeland has only played 37 minutes. Whatever the case, we drafted Joel both because his foreign contract meant he could be brought over later, and because he reportedly played great in the European pre-draft combine. I doubt that was a fluke, although it remains to be seen.


Can you give any other examples? From my memory, it always turns out to be the case that those guys just suck (eg Monia).


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## It's_GO_Time (Oct 13, 2005)

dudleysghost said:


> Because he was picked in the first round, it does make his contract guaranteed. While he plays out his overseas contract, those guaranteed years can be deferred, but whenever Joel Freeland shows up for training camp, he's getting paid according to the salary of a #30 pick for that year and he has two or three (I can't recall) guaranteed years.
> 
> I don't know the details of his Spanish contract. If he has a three year deal, then he can just play out the remaining two years if he chooses. Or, if the contract has a buyout clause, then either he or the team can pay the buyout, and he can come over sooner. Obviously the team wouldn't want to now, but he can pay it himself if it is small enough and override the team's wishes. If there is no buyout figure, then he can just drop that Spanish contract whenever he wants, but it probably does have a buyout number.



Wow, a wealth of information in this post . . . thanks.


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## dudleysghost (Mar 24, 2006)

#10 said:


> Can you give any other examples? From my memory, it always turns out to be the case that those guys just suck (eg Monia).


IIRC Bargnani and Viktor Khryapa were only 20mpg players, even though both were basically NBA ready right when they came over. I've heard some Nets fans say Mile Ilic will be pretty good, and he only plays 14 mpg in Europe. Honestly though, I don't know much about Euroleague. I just have read from multiple sources that Euroteams cut out the young and the NBA-bound when reading about draft prospects in the past, but I don't know that it's really true. That's why I said they were "notorious" for it rather than saying they actually do it. :biggrin:


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## dudleysghost (Mar 24, 2006)

Kiss_My_Darius said:


> Wow, a wealth of information in this post . . . thanks.


I want to be an NBA contract lawyer and CBA expert when I grow up. Larry **** is my hero.


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## andalusian (Jun 29, 2006)

I think that under the current CBA 1st round rookies have 2 years guaranteed and 2 extra years as a team option.


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## Samuel (Jan 1, 2003)

dudleysghost said:


> I didn't make it up. At the time this thread was created, there was a widespread rumor that Portland was offered Nene and a 1st round pick for Magloire, so his expiring contract could help Denver cut salary in the Iverson trade. I think Jason Quick even said it was going to happen. What really happened though is that Denver sent the pick to Philly and kept Nene, and now will have a nice lux tax bill next year unless they can cut salary some other way.


Ahh, I didn't check the date, sorry about that. I remember that trade involving Magloire, but I thought you were talking about Zach being involved.


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## Tim Lehrbach (Sep 17, 2003)

I believe NBA teams are limited to contributing $1 million towards buying out contracts with Euro teams. Of course, that probably covers the entirety of Freeland's contract.

But there is no benefit to keep Freeland over here unless he is brought over for summer league and gives an improbably great performance.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

dudleysghost said:


> Because he was picked in the first round, it does make his contract guaranteed. While he plays out his overseas contract, those guaranteed years can be deferred, but whenever Joel Freeland shows up for training camp, he's getting paid according to the salary of a #30 pick for that year and he has two or three (I can't recall) guaranteed years.


That's not quite true. 

Portland doesn't HAVE to sign him. If they sign him, it's on the rookie scale (including guaranteed money). The Bulls decided not to sign Travis Knight some years ago, and he went on to sign with the Lakers.

If Freeland comes over before he's ready, he might find himself a free agent... which might be a good thing if he totally blows up (in a good way) later in his career, but it seems like it is probably wiser to stay overseas until the Blazers want him, so he can get the guaranteed money.

Ed O.


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## dudleysghost (Mar 24, 2006)

Ed O said:


> That's not quite true.
> 
> Portland doesn't HAVE to sign him. If they sign him, it's on the rookie scale (including guaranteed money). The Bulls decided not to sign Travis Knight some years ago, and he went on to sign with the Lakers.
> 
> ...



Ok, that's true. The team could just renounce him and make him a free agent. But it's my understanding that the salary still counts against the team. So there is some incentive for him not to come over if he's not ready, because if the team renounces him he'd be left without a contract. But, there is also incentive for teams not to renounce 1st round picks. Although, in the Blazers' present salary state, we could probably accept the extra ~$1 mil added to the salary number without any real penalty, if our salary number the next couple years continues to be in the window between the salary cap - the MLE and the lux tax, which it probably will.


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## ebott (Jan 7, 2003)

Samuel said:


> Ahh, I didn't check the date, sorry about that. I remember that trade involving Magloire, but I thought you were talking about Zach being involved.


+1

I've gotta make sure and check dates before I respond to stuff.


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## dudleysghost (Mar 24, 2006)

ebott said:


> +1
> 
> I've gotta make sure and check dates before I respond to stuff.


+2. I did a double-take when I saw myself quoted talking about a trade for Nene. It took me a minute to figure out why on Earth I would've said that.


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## #10 (Jul 23, 2004)

dudleysghost said:


> IIRC Bargnani and Viktor Khryapa were only 20mpg players, even though both were basically NBA ready right when they came over. I've heard some Nets fans say Mile Ilic will be pretty good, and he only plays 14 mpg in Europe. Honestly though, I don't know much about Euroleague. I just have read from multiple sources that Euroteams cut out the young and the NBA-bound when reading about draft prospects in the past, but I don't know that it's really true. That's why I said they were "notorious" for it rather than saying they actually do it. :biggrin:


Good point about Bargnani, I'm not sure Viktor fits though. He's not really much more than a tall guy that hustles.
Though it makes sense that NBA bound players won't get as much playing time, it almost always seems that they were overhyped and drafted on nothing but upside (which fits Freeland perfectly).
I'm not sure why any top division team would want to give Freeland the minutes to develop. He'd probably be better off back with his fourth division side, where he gets minutes because he's tall. So while the idea of leaving him in Europe to develop sounds nice, it doesn't look like it will work out that way.


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## dudleysghost (Mar 24, 2006)

#10 said:


> Good point about Bargnani, I'm not sure Viktor fits though. He's not really much more than a tall guy that hustles.
> Though it makes sense that NBA bound players won't get as much playing time, it almost always seems that they were overhyped and drafted on nothing but upside (which fits Freeland perfectly).
> I'm not sure why any top division team would want to give Freeland the minutes to develop. He'd probably be better off back with his fourth division side, where he gets minutes because he's tall. So while the idea of leaving him in Europe to develop sounds nice, it doesn't look like it will work out that way.


Viktor is a pretty good player. He's not going to be an NBA star, but I'd think that most Euroleague teams could use him as a major rotation player with his skill set. He hustles, is fairly quick and strong, plays good defense, is a very good passer for his position and has an ok jump shot.

But definitely, most guys who are sitting on Euroleague benches are probably doing so because they aren't very good. Freeland not playing can't be a good sign, but I guess I just have so much confidence in Pritchard's judgment that I still expect JF to eventually break out. For a player with his degree of inexperience, playing time at a lower level could definitely help, but he probably has a lot of fundamentals to work on. He should be in a place where he gets a lot of coaching attention to that kind of stuff. Is he in that kind of place? No idea. All I know is that he's done nothing in Euroleague, but he impressed at the Euro pre-draft camp and Pritchard saw something in him, so I'm still hopeful. I do also hope he stays in Europe another year or two though.


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

As long as he is playing in another pro league we retain his rights. Once he is not under a pro contract we continue to hold his rights for 1 year. If we don't sign him in that time period he would be eligible for the draft once again.


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## For Three! Rip City! (Nov 11, 2003)

I really don't have any faith in the European league serving as a developmental league for the NBA. I think they have been very consistent in not playing players that are NBA bound. It's a waste of time to have them develop their skills over there. That's why it's such a shame that the NBA doesn't have a better minor league. If they would just embrace the idea I'm sure they would have a paying fan base. I'm guessing the NBA's bigger concern is taking away dollars from the pros.


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## MARIS61 (Apr 28, 2003)

He's British for Dog's sake!

What were you expecting, the next Mark Eaton?


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## drexlersdad (Jun 3, 2006)

If he is not getting any playing time, maybe he would be better off next year playing in the NBDL, where we could get him substantial minutes.

Am I right about that? Can the NBA teams dictate such things as playing time to the NBDL teams? In a true minor league, that would be the case.

I was thinking that maybe NBA teams should buy an entire European league, and actually use them as farm teams. They could probably field competitive teams, and sell ticketts, while also having a say in minutes and assignments. I mean what good is it if he is staying overseas if he is not playing AT ALL? He needs minutes to develop his game.


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## CocaineisaHelluvaDrug (Aug 24, 2006)

freeland will never play a single minute in the nba


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## drexlersdad (Jun 3, 2006)




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## Samuel (Jan 1, 2003)

For Three! Rip City! said:


> That's why it's such a shame that the NBA doesn't have a better minor league. If they would just embrace the idea I'm sure they would have a paying fan base. I'm guessing the NBA's bigger concern is taking away dollars from the pros.


I think it's getting better, though. Considering that it started only 6 years ago, and it only attained farm-league status last year, it's already on the right track. Every time a new team is added (and they're adding them at 1-2 per year... not a bad clip), the franchise-per-DLeagueTeam ratio gets a little better. 

Once the number of teams goes up, I'm guessing Stern will start changing the rules as far as 2nd round draft picks are concerned. A team might have a little more contact with their 2nd round draftees (more than they do now).


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## dudleysghost (Mar 24, 2006)

drexlersdad said:


> If he is not getting any playing time, maybe he would be better off next year playing in the NBDL, where we could get him substantial minutes.
> 
> Am I right about that? Can the NBA teams dictate such things as playing time to the NBDL teams? In a true minor league, that would be the case.
> 
> I was thinking that maybe NBA teams should buy an entire European league, and actually use them as farm teams. They could probably field competitive teams, and sell ticketts, while also having a say in minutes and assignments. I mean what good is it if he is staying overseas if he is not playing AT ALL? He needs minutes to develop his game.


I agree that a farm system would be great for the NBA. There's a couple things standing in the way though. One is the CBA (collective bargaining agreement). It would have to be renegotiated to allow teams to "send down" their rookies while retaining their rights, and paying them some good amount of money.

The second problem is economics. Running the D-league is probably a money losing venture. Teams could hypothetically recoup some of that value by using the team to develop their young guys. So far, that just means having an affiliation system. The NBA teams though can't dictate to the D-league affiliate who to play though. However, the Lakers IIRC bought their own D-league team, so presumably they can dictate playing rotations to them. I think more pro teams will go this route eventually, and would have already if not for the cost. Supposedly the Blazers will have a team in Boise next year, and I wonder if they will be an affiliate or a subsidiary of the franchise.


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