# Will Monta Ellis leave GS



## Kiyaman (Aug 14, 2006)

Remember, bench-player Ellis stepped right into the same shoes that Richardson left open with alot of guidance from PG-Baron Davis & Point-Foward-Steven Jackson help. 

Chris Mullin would look bad if he does not go out his way in resigning both Biedrin & Ellis. Golden State has a roster of players that sticks together just as good as any Championship team in the history of the NBA. 
Coach Don Nelson arrival and technique created a team-confidence in player to teammate that is awesome. 

Nate Robinson bully-defense and pressure on the ball out-weighs Monta Ellis entire defensive talent. 
Monta Ellis fronting-defense in defending oposition from going to their favorite side of the court out-weighs Jamal Crawford overall talent. 
Having a Backcourt roster of Nate, Ellis, Collins, and Mayo, would be awesome alongside of SF-Hustling Tazman, SF-Athletic Chandler, and switching PF-David Lee to some SF duties anytime the Knicks have two peremeter shooters on the court. 

The Knicks have to cleanup their Backcourt and their Frontcourt. 
They have some promising Keeper Players on the roster, but they also have alot of players on the roster that are holding their teammates best talents down by such little things as not playing any defense but wanting the green-light on all offensive plays. 

*I am the best PG in the NBA!* 
Which proved after that statement the Knicks could not WIN a game accept against the rookie PG-Telfair Portland Blazers (Zach team). 
It also proved that season the Knicks had the worst backcourt tandem in the NBA with Marbury & Crawford. 
The next season the Knicks added Q.Richardson who performance was so bad it made Marbury & Crawford look good. 
The season after that the Knicks added Jared Jefferies who performance was so bad it made Marbury, Crawford, and Q.Rich look good.
The season after that the Knicks added Zach Randolph who performance was so bad it made Marbury, Crawford, Q.Rich, and Jefferies look good. 
Must I say any more...


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

id be more focused on how the knicks set up and swap picks with minnesota. and a real PG.


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

nbanoitall said:


> id be more focused on how the knicks set up and swap picks with minnesota. and a real PG.


Agreed. I think there is too little a chance Ellis is available to the Knicks unless the Warriors do not want to match pay him and look to move him in a trade. Still this is a very very intriguing idea if Ellis can stay healthy. 6th pick and Jamal Crawford anyone?


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

Come to think of it, I've really taken to the idea of trying to pursue Ellis off the jump using our draft pick. I personally like OJ Mayo a lot though and would be hard passing up considering how we'd need his defensive skills badly against Derrick Rose in the future. I imagine Rose's speed and athleticism is going to be a big problem for all PG's in the future.

I'd still like to see something of a trade that includes the 6th pick, Jamal Crawford, Ronaldo Balkman and David Lee going to the Warriors for their 14th pick, Monta Ellis (sign and trade), Mikael Pietrus (sign and trade) and Brandan Wright.


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## ChosenFEW (Jun 23, 2005)

ellis comes across as soft to me....

i wouldn't necessarily care if the knicks pursue him


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## alphaorange (Jul 2, 2006)

*Monta Ellis is no PG*

Combo guard at best. Don't give up n Mayo, yet. Word is that Memphis is going to make a strong play for Ellis which would more than likely allow them to pick a big of some description.


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

ChosenFEW said:


> ellis comes across as soft to me....
> 
> i wouldn't necessarily care if the knicks pursue him


Defensively? I do not think that's valid on offense because he regularly throws it down on people at only 170 pounds. He's also pretty good at not only drawing contact but absorbing that contact and finishing.


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

*Re: Monta Ellis is no PG*



alphaorange said:


> Combo guard at best. Don't give up n Mayo, yet. Word is that Memphis is going to make a strong play for Ellis which would more than likely allow them to pick a big of some description.


...but a very good combo guard that is only 23 years old. I definately see him more as our 2 than the guy running our offense. I'd inquire about Kirk Hinrich and see what we'd need to do to try and acquire him. A player like Hinrich allow's for Ellis to play in a role he's familiar with as a scorer and still have someone else to set the table.

I personally have not given up on OJ Mayo but if he is not attainable, Ellis would be the next best choice. Even if OJ is attainable, Ellis may be able to give him a run for his money. Although Mayo will likely be the better defender and midrange scorer, Ellis is easily the more dynamic scorer and penetrater.


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

OJ Mayo has been getting a lot of criticism because he wont be able to dominate like taller stars... not athletic enough... a bunch of bs going around. the guy measured between 6'4 and 6'5 in shoes so theyll probably end up listing him at 6'5 in shoes. Hes got a 6'6 wingspan... he's fast as hell and to all the critics surprise he has a 41 inch verticle. The knicks savior is through the draft.... trade the farm for the third pick.
you want a point guard... call New Jersey and figure out what it takes to get Marcus Williams. 
the knicks have needed a shot blocker pretty badly too. Alexis Ajinca looks like he'd fit in real well with your new coach. hes not ready yet, but Im praying the Nuggets try and trade into the bottom of the first round to get him. hes nbdl material next year, but if youve watched the new nba draft workout videos of him on youtube... youd be drooling.


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## alphaorange (Jul 2, 2006)

*Ajinca looks very soft.*

I don't see any lift or great timing. Another jump shooting euro bigman. 

Heinrich and Ellis would be a bit smallish as a backcourt at 6'4 and 6'3


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

*Re: Ajinca looks very soft.*



alphaorange said:


> I don't see any lift or great timing. Another jump shooting euro bigman.
> 
> Heinrich and Ellis would be a bit smallish as a backcourt at 6'4 and 6'3


They'd easily be better defensively than what we currently have in the backcourt. Besides, many teams in the past have fielded backcourt players with similar height and have been successful. 

I also agree with you about Ajinca. I would like the Knicks to check out a guy like Serge Ibaka (of the Congo) who I've been impressed with from the clips I've saw of him. A couple years in a top notch European league and we might have this years Luis Scola on our hands.


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

*Re: Ajinca looks very soft.*



alphaorange said:


> I don't see any lift or great timing. Another jump shooting euro bigman.
> 
> Heinrich and Ellis would be a bit smallish as a backcourt at 6'4 and 6'3


your the first to question his shot blocking ability.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlcfmCclMtk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yj1bHmIXtBQ


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## alphaorange (Jul 2, 2006)

*That is the clip watched*

Where do you see this ability? On one drill set up for him to do just that? Soft,soft,soft, and he's playing against smallish guys. Try bringing that against Shaq, Howard, Hakeem, Ewing, Robinson, or any number of other guys at nineteen....this guy is not impressive.....sorry.


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## Kiyaman (Aug 14, 2006)

*Having a Backcourt rotation of "Nate, Ellis, Collins, and Mayo," would be awesome alongside of teammates SF-Hustling Tazman, SF-Athletic Chandler, and using husting SF/PF-David Lee talents at both his positions during each game to confuse Knick oposition scouting reports.* 

This should be the main plan and outlook of what President Donnie Walsh and Coach D'Antoni should be preparing for at the start of draft night and this offseason. 
Keeping both PG-Nate & Collins ending contract to see how well they perform with consistent playingtime at the start of next season (without Marbury & Crawford in the rotation), could pay off well whether they falter or play well they are great trade bait during the season.

*The Knicks Bigmen Frontcourt players are a different story and another chapter.*


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/52996/20080615/ajinca_wants_to_come_to_nba_next_season/
"He is going to be big-time," Turiaf said. "He has a body for a force and a defensive presence. Has a nose for blocking shots and is at the right place for his teammates as far as blocks, playing good defense, and help-side defense. And even when he's not blocking shots, he's going to bother stuff. He had a real good workout out in Boston. All I'm going to say is people are going to be very surprised. Nobody's talking about him right now.
"Next season I want to play here," Ajinca said. "I don't want to go back. I played much more stronger last [season]. I added some pounds. I feel better."


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

Another stab in the dark at what we can do....

*Knicks Trade (to Cleveland, Seattle):*
Zach Randolph...PF
Quentin Richardson...G/F
Jared Jefferies...F
Malik Rose...F/C
$3 Million cash

*Knicks Recieve:*
Ben Wallace...F/C
Joe Smith...PF
Wally Szerzbiak...SF
Damon Jones...PG

This would be a 3 way trade with the Cavs and Sonics where Rose and the Cavs 19th pick would go to the Sonics while Watson and the remaining Knicks go to Cleveland. I consider this trade to be paramount to improving our team this offseason. We lose a lot of talent but gain a lot of financial flexibility in return that is currently attached to battle tested veterans. Cavs do it because they desperately need a number 2 man to LeBron and role players still capable of contributing now and in the future.

*Knicks Trade (to Seattle):*
$1 million 

*Knicks Recieve:*
24th pick

The Sonics have 13 guaranteed contracts this offseason and would not have the room for 3 first round picks and multiple first round picks next year. Cash is always valuable to a rebuilding team so exchanging that for the pick seems reasonable considering they were able to move up 5 picks with the previous pick they acquired. Hopefully the Knicks could use this pick to send to Utah to get out of that pick we owe them from the Marbury trade.

*Knicks Trade (to Clippers/Grizzlies):*
Stephon Marbury...PG

*Knicks Recieve:*
Tim Thomas...F
Dan Dickau...PG (sign and trade)
Aaron Williams...F/C (sign and trade)
Brian Cardinal...F
$8 million trade exception
35th pick

The Grizzlies give up Mike Miller and Brian Cardinal and get Quinton Ross. Clippers get Marbury and Mike Miller with the ton of cap space the $30 million worth of cap space they have. The Clippers get a 2nd group of players that could help them make another run in the West Finals like they did a year ago and replace Maggette who likely won't resign and who the Clippers do not want anyway. The Grizzlies get out under Miller's and Cardinal's contract and add a very good role player in Ross to fill a big need at the 2 guard spot.

The Knicks give up immediate cap space but gain servicable role players (who could be cut) and an $8 million trade exception that allow for us to take on more salaries in other trades.


*Knicks Trade (to Phoenix):*
Wally Szerzbiak...SF
Joe Smith...PF
Nate Robinson...PG
Fred Jones...SG (sign and trade)

*Knicks Recieve:*
Leandro Barbosa...PG
Boris Diaw...F
15th pick
48th pick
future first round pick

We win out easily in the talent department and gain two first rounders from the deal. Barbosa and Diaw help our running game significantly. The Suns get the financial flexibility that they have been continually looking for but solid role players to aid their championship run next year; the here and now that they seem to be only focused on.

*Knicks Trade (Grizzlies/Warriors):*
Jamal Crawford...G (Warriors)
24th pick (Warriors)
35th pick (Warriors)
Ben Wallace...F/C (Warriors)

*Knicks Recieve:*
OJ Mayo...SG (with the 5th pick)
Brandan Wright...PF
Mikael Pietrus...G/F

This is probably the most complicated trade proposal so I'll just explain it in writing. The Knicks select Kevin Love with the 6th pick and Nicolas Batum with the 24th. The Knicks then trade Crawford, Ben Wallace, Love and Batum to the Warriors. The Warriors sign and trade Monta Ellis (who may be too expensive to keep), Brandan Wright, and sign and trade Mikael Pietrus; Ellis goes to the Grizzlies, Wright and Pietrus goes to the Knicks. The Grizzlies draft OJ Mayo with the 5th pick and send him to the Knicks.

The Warriors appear to be a team very focused on the here and now which is why guys like Wright did not get much playing time last season. The package they recieve allows them to accomplish improving the team with ready to win players in a cost effective manner. Monta Ellis is likely to demand the max and likely won't be worth it but the Grizzlies are willing to assume that financial burden because he is a native of the state. We wind up with the player we want AND tons of freed up cash. 

*Knicks Trade (to Chicago): *
Damon Jones...PG
Randolph Morris...C
15th pick
Future First Round Pick (Suns)
48th pick
$1.5 million

*Knicks Recieve:*
Kirk Hinrich...PG
Demetris Nichols...SF (sign and trade)


*Knicks Trade (to Sacramento):*
Wilson Chandler...SF
trade exception

*Knicks Recieve:*
Mikki Moore...C
44th pick
45th pick

*Knicks Trade (Utah):*
Mardy Collins
44th pick
45th pick

*Knicks Recieve:*
2010 first round pick (Knicks)


*
KNICKS MOCK ROSTER*
PG: Kirk Hinrich/Leandro Barbosa/ Dan Dickau
SG: OJ Mayo/ Mikael Pietrus/ Demetris Nichols
SF: Boris Diaw/Tim Thomas/ Brian Cardinal
PF: Brandan Wright/ David Lee/ Aaron Williams
C: Eddy Curry/ Mikki Moore/ Rafael Araujo

...just year everyday fire-sale; every Knick besides Eddy Curry.


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

i like barbosa and diaw... but i just see a lot of trading. let marbury expire. damn look at your payroll and how crappy the team is. if you want to trade for other expiring deals like wally for example... id give it a shot. send off as many bad contracts as you can. but dump salary... get picks and youth... not any more long fat contracts.


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## alphaorange (Jul 2, 2006)

*If the end result is to get...*

Diaw and Barbosa, I'll pass. You get certain guys and really fixate on them. Both are way overpriced role players. Good players, but role players. I really think a little patience is in order. Work on getting Randolph out of town (Sixers are a real possibility).....See what Curry can do in this new system.....get Chandler and Lee some time as starters..get Nate some meaningful time at PG...get a good player from the draft this year (or playerS if a deal can be made)...get another good player next year (Rubio,other, or work on Heinrich this year)...don't sink the cap, and whatever we do....don't lose patience and fall into the quick fix trap. There will be lots of quality FAs available and the chances are good that we can nab one or two, if we don't get one of the top 3 or 4. Target 2010 as a year to make some real noise.


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

if you have the kind of team that can take advantage of their exploits, then I say roll the dice especially if a draft pick that high is included. If the players develop accordingly to their potential then I think they would be role players on this team....very good fits as well.

The more I've watched clips of Eddy Curry with the Bulls (when his game still relied equally on finesse and power), the more I believe he can actually fit into D'Antoni's offense; meaning we could use a Diaw/Barbosa at this point as role players. Check out this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhxmDdilOJo

At 1 minute 36 seconds you have Eddy Curry receiving a tap pass at the free throw line of the opposite court, bringing the ball down on a break (with head up and good ballhandling), hesistating right, crossing over to his left decisively before pulling jump for a jimmy while moving parallel to the basket. He's a NBA player so I'm not terribly impressed with any of the individual moves but moreso impressed with the combination of quickness, mobility and agility that he once possessed not so long ago. It is definately a contrast to the slower and lumbering Curry we've seen more recently. He works back into that physique with Grover this offseason, then he could definately be the building block we thought he was.


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## alphaorange (Jul 2, 2006)

*Their salaries are crippling, Twink....*

absolutely crippling as far as any hope of cap relief.


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

*Re: Their salaries are crippling, Twink....*



alphaorange said:


> absolutely crippling as far as any hope of cap relief.


suppose it doesn't really matter but we actually would hypothetically drop our payroll to $64 million through the trades I proposed. It actually works out because we spread around some of that financial burden to different teams (especially those below the cap). You make enough trades where your losing about $3 million from each and you might get an interesting strategy for us in the future.


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