# That Frank Williams sucks!!.....



## Perennial All Star (Aug 13, 2003)

I mean c'mon 7 assists,4 rebounds,1 turnover,8 points?That is terrible.Eisley's 4 pts,4 assists,2 turnover's in more minutes is much better!Dont you think,Rashidi?


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## krob (Jul 6, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>NYKFan123</b>!
> I mean c'mon 7 assists,4 rebounds,1 turnover,8 points?That is terrible.Eisley's 4 pts,4 assists,2 turnover's in more minutes is much better!Dont you think,Rashidi?


:clap: 

He's on fire...

:fire:


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## Fordy74 (May 22, 2002)

How bout that behind the back pass to spoon in the 4th quarter!!! sweeeeet.. LOL Rashidi's sarcastic posts is rubbing off on everyone:no: :laugh:


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## Perennial All Star (Aug 13, 2003)

Rashidi vanished, he will return in a few days when Frankie is benched and Eisley has 9 assists and post another sarcastic and lame topic....


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

If you cant see that Frank Williams is far and away POTENTIALLY the best point guard on the team,you are blind...rashidi makes good statistical arguments,but he misses the biggest statistic,the won/lost record.The Knicks cant win with Eisly or ward and thats all that matters..Frank may turn the ball over more,but he breaks down the D,gets easy buckets and gets the team going...Frank has to start and finish,its obvious


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## Northpole (Aug 31, 2003)

The only preoblem is that if FW starts and we are still down, who sparks the offense? Ward? Eisley? Neither one has become very reliable off the bench this season.


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## ToddMacCulloch11 (May 31, 2003)

I watch the 4th quarter yesterday, and he really showed me something. I like him much better then ward and eisley already.


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

> Rashidi vanished, he will return in a few days when Frankie is benched


Am I not allowed to spend my Saturdays doing something productive? Gee, I had no idea it was my responsibiliy to attend this board at every waking moment of my life. My bad.

That also means I missed the game.

But please, before you start with the anti-Rashidi comments, remember that Frank Williams' biggest flaw is his *utter lack of consistency.* Wait for him to actually string a game together before passing judgement on his mediocreness. Frank Williams is averaging 2 good games per month so far.

As far as the relation between "Frank Williams" and "winning" is concerned, weren't you paying attention when Allan Houston returned from injury and scored 9 points in the 4th quarter?


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## Perennial All Star (Aug 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Rashidi</b>!
> 
> 
> Am I not allowed to spend my Saturdays doing something productive? Gee, I had no idea it was my responsibiliy to attend this board at every waking moment of my life. My bad.
> ...


Hahahah please stop with your lame excuses!Frank williams doesnt even GET THE CHANCE TO SHOW CONSISTENCY when hes constantly benched and only played good minutes twice a month!


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

He doesn't get more time, because he never utilizes the few minutes he is given. When he actually does play well once every 2 weeks, that's when he gets the extra minutes.

And what do you know? Not surprisingly Frank Williams follows up his decent game with another negligable contribution by going 0-3 with 1 assist in 6 minutes against the Wiz. Don't say "he didn't get the time", because he took a shot every 2 minutes. Had he gone 2-3, then he obviously would have played more than 6 minutes. This is why he doesn't play more, much less start.

Eisley btw, had 5 assists in 15 minutes, thats an average of an assist every 3 minutes, and he also scored 2 points on 1-2 shooting. Eisley still contributes when given limited minutes, but it seems you like to make excuses for F-Will when he is a non-factor in his limited minutes.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

if your coach pulls you for going 0 for 3,the coach should be fired


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## Northpole (Aug 31, 2003)

Didn't Eisley rack up 3 fouls in 4 mintutes in the 3rd quarter or was it second?


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## Perennial All Star (Aug 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Rashidi</b>!
> He doesn't get more time, because he never utilizes the few minutes he is given. When he actually does play well once every 2 weeks, that's when he gets the extra minutes.
> 
> And what do you know? Not surprisingly Frank Williams follows up his decent game with another negligable contribution by going 0-3 with 1 assist in 6 minutes against the Wiz. Don't say "he didn't get the time", because he took a shot every 2 minutes. Had he gone 2-3, then he obviously would have played more than 6 minutes. This is why he doesn't play more, much less start.
> ...


Again you have 0 knowledge of NBA basketball.If your gonna pull a guy for going 0-3 you might as well pull Houston,Van Horn,Thomas,and Deke out of the game.How stupider can this argument here,defending Eisley was a bad mistake,trying to follow it up with countless excuses is worse.


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

When your coach is trying to find a consistent PG, going 0-3 in 6 minutes is not the way to keep yourself in the lineup.

Excuses? I have so far backed up all my reasoning with facts or statistics. It is YOU who is consistently making excuses for Frank Williams. You try to say that Eisley plays horrible games, when he clearly doesn't. Frank Williams was marginally better than Howard Eisley in one game, and you try to make it seem like he's the messiah. All I'm doing is trying to prevent the same old ignorant witch hunts and bring a sense of reality to the situation.

I don't particularly care for Howard Eisley, but I don't particularly care for inconsistent 3rd strings that don't produce either. If Williams were getting results, he'd be getting more minutes, plain and simple. If you can't ever play well in 6 minutes, why do you deserve 12? Frank Williams, his few good games included, is shooting 31% from the field, and 18% from 3pt range. Take away his good games, and these numbers are even worse. Guess what? These numbers support taking Williams out when he's 0-3. He's a complete non-factor in most of his games. Chaney doesn't make him a non-factor, Williams' own shoddy play makes him a non-factor.

Lee Nailon and John Wallace would occasionally have a big game too, that didn't mean they were good players.

In the meantime, I'll be waiting for Milos Vujanic.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

6 minutes????0 for 3??cmon rashidi,thats insane considering what the guy did the night before...How can he humanly develop without playing time and a longer leash???..How can you build up any confidence??

cant agree with you on this one,but the knicks won..

as for your statistical research,it is very good but nothing you come up with is valid,since the Knicks are losers..Thus there is no correlation between your stats and Knick success..Thats is a fact...

You could argue with a healthy Mcdyss we would be a better team,but until he is healthy and the Knicks win it is merely opinion and inconclusive.The Knicks have to win for your stats to be meaningful...As an example,with Spree in the lineup the knicks won more games than they lost..There is then a correlation between spree playing and the knicks winning

sorry for the lesson


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## krob (Jul 6, 2002)

all i have to say is that statistics dont tell the whole story.... Joe Namath was a Super Bowl winning QB, but he had more 220 ints to 173 tds, not only that, he only had 2 seasons in his career when he had more td's than int's.... but..... he won the big one..... statistics are not the end all be all....:no:


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

krob, i totally agree with you....the only thing that matters is if the player is a winner..stats tell a very small part of the story

and there is only one stat that matters,and thats the number of games won


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## chapi (Apr 4, 2003)

i think that f.w. is the worst pg the knicks have had in the last 15 years..


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

here is my point,pardon the pun....We sukk with eisly..thats a fact

we sort of sukk with word...its proven

give williams a chance..hes the only one that doesnt sukk for sure...i am not saying he does or doesnt,but let play him and find out

the team completely stinks,so what are we risking?


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

And my contention is, if he's bad in 10 minutes, what makes you think he'll be good in 30?


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## NYK4LIFE30 (Dec 7, 2003)

WHY THE HELL ISN'T FRANK WILLIAMS STARTING?

I MEAN THE HELL WITH HAVING A HEART. IT'S ABOUT WINNING RIGHT?

SO DON CHANEY SHOULD GET HIS HEAD OUT OF HIS A$$ AND BENCH WARD OR EISLEY, I DON'T CARE WHICH 1, AS LONG AS FRANK STARTS.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

your contention is exactly my point regarding sweetney being a "decent NBA starter" and Williams being able to run the show...

You have to give these guys some PT to see what they have..Its not like we are Detroit and are battling for the number one seed..This team is just awful.....

Frank shows flashes of brilliance and does things the other two cant..find out now if he has game and if not,hes history and lets get Vujanic over here....

And i dont think it would kill us to have lampe play for 5 minutes a game either..I hate to be the first one to tell you,but this team is one of the worst in the league with the highest payroll and no relief in sight..Play the young guys!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

> Frank shows flashes of brilliance


He also shows a heckuva lot more flashes of unbrilliance. 6 turnovers in 16 minutes? Aren't you one of the guys who rags on Van Horn for averaging 3 per 30 minutes?



> I hate to be the first one to tell you,


Fortunately, you aren't the first one to tell me, so don't beat yourself up.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

i dont really rag on van horn..I was a big proponent of the trade..

of course that was before we got Deke..

But after watching him i am very very dissapointed..

And I equally dissapointed with eisly and ward 

I just want frank to get the same minutes as the other 3 stooges


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## NYK4LIFE30 (Dec 7, 2003)

Rashidi don't u think Frank Williams deserves just as much of an opportunity as Ward and Eisley?
I mean he can't be any worst, and in all honesty u seem a little biased towards Eisley for the fact that he had 26 vs the Lakers, which happens to be only 1 of of the 25 games the Knicks have played so far this year. Yea he has shown flashes of brilliance and unbrilliance your right, but I would like to see what he rweally can do if he gets the playing time, because you know what you are getting from Ward and Eisley. Frank is a pg that can Break down the D and thats exactly the type of player this team needs, because no1 has handle like Frank Williams on this team.


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## shazha (Nov 20, 2002)

i tend to stay out of new york disscussions, as nyc fans are very loyal to their team and players and tent to not take critisism of their team very lightly but heres my two cents.

*Eisley* 
He was a great as a backup to stockton but thats all he will ever be, his mind is a step to slow for a starting point guard. He can slow down and control an offence for a short period of time. But over the duration of a game, he just isnt productive. Best played off the bench. 

*Ward* 
Great speed, great defence, and awareness. Extreamly good hands, and foot work and speed. Strong passer. Sounds like a quarderback? Damn straight, he should have stuck to playing football.

Ward is probably right now the best point the knicks have. He isnt much in terms of a guy that can run offensive sets, which is what the knicks really need. None of the knicks can create their own shots consistantly. Allan Houston works best off screens and pull up mid range Jumpers. Without good offensive sets to free him up defenders tend to get up in ny's shooters, the result, inconsistancy. 

Even though Ward could start for many teams in the nba, for ny, he just doesnt fit. So once again, best as a backup pg.

*Williams* 
Very fast, Very athletic. seems like the guy just wants to play the game at hyper speed all night long. Seems like he can find the open man, and push the ball. He can drive. Not too sure about his shot, as i havent seem him play that often (lack of minutes). But, one thing is for sure, if the knicks can slow him down a little he should start to be a bit more efficient.

At times it seems his body is too fast for his mind, ala darious miles. If he can get some experience, maybe log some decent minutes and show signs of improvement, then maybe start him.

*Conclusion* 
Ward doesnt fit into the system. I was going to say start williams, because of his potential. But the position the knicks are in, with McDyess they could actually get some wins. If they can get some good defense out of their point guard and control the ball without turnovers and run their offensive sets they could get some wins. 

I hate to say it, but right now i agree with Rashidi. For the knicks given position, Eisley, is probably their best option. If it gets to all-star break and they have little chance of making the playoffs then give williams 30 mpg. 

See the thing is they are still in the playoff race. If the knicks get another lottery season, Layden is probably out the door and he knows it. They wont play williams. Especially if he makes costly mistakes with the ball. Its all eisley for now. Untill Williams improves his game.

I'd love for Williams to start, and improve his game. But its probably not in the knicks best interest atm.


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## shazha (Nov 20, 2002)

hmm ended up bein a long post, to sum up, ward is their best pg. But he doesnt fit with their system. Eisley sux, but he can control offense. Frank needs time to improve, but is their best bet.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

great posts,and you hit the nail on the head...Williams has the most potential,and he can be a little reckless..As someone said the Knicks are still in the playoff hunt and Laydens and cheneys heads will be severed if they dont make the playoffs...


So,it comes down to rebuilding or not..The Knicks and the Dolans will never rebuild so we are stuck with mediocrity


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

> mean he can't be any worst, and in all honesty u seem a little biased towards Eisley for the fact that he had 26 vs the Lakers, which happens to be only 1 of of the 25 games the Knicks have played so far this year.


I don't care for Eisley, I'm just willing to admit that he's the Knicks' 2nd best PG.

Nor am I saying Williams should be buried behind Eisley his whole career. But right now, with the team trying to win, I'm agreeing with him not starting. The Knicks making the playoffs is very important.

1. It shuts up all the critics.

2. Regardless of the playoff result, it defeats the losing culture they've developed.

3. Maybe it actually makes NY an attractive place for players to play in again. 

I get the feeling that Milos Vujanic isn't interested in playing for a team that is worse than his own.


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