# The Official "I Can Live With Scabs" thread



## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

For some reason the Scabs signing seems to get some people very upset. Personally I don't see what the big issue is. Is he over paid based on his numbers? Sure. But is he a good player to have on a team? I think so. Yes he is not the most gifted athlete or hoops player. However he has a great attitude, works hard, plays smart, is willing to take whatever role asked of him. I do not know this for fact but my bet is he's a hard practice guy and does not think about touches. 

Other players with bigger contracts over the years who barely got out of street clothes got more of a break. So why all the bad energy towards Scabs? 

One of the big things about Scabs that gets repeated as a big negative is that he takes minutes away from guys like Jefferson, Reed and Gomes. I've never understood this particular point. 

Do you want someone worse than Scalabrine? Or someone better? Because anyone better is going to take away even more of those minutes. And anyone worse and people are being even harder on Ainge for making the signing. And there is worse.

On one hand, people hate Scalabrine because he sucks. On another hand people hate the signing of Scalabrine because he is better than Ryan Gomes. Apparently Ainge was supposed to sign someone who sucked worse than Scalabrine with better talent than Scalabrine if that makes any sense. I don't get what people want. They don't want anyone better than Al to get in his way but they don't want someone who sucks either. But if a guy doesn't suck he is going to be in Ryan Gomes way. So how do you fill that roster spot with someone who can help you, who is not as good as Ryan Gomes? Who should have Brian Scalabrine's roster spot _AND _ be happy about it _AND_ be happy with the young guys getting big minutes? 

Let's start with the conventional wisdom that Ainge let Walker go because he did not want anyone around to block Al. We wanted that spot to be there when Al was ready and room/minutes for him to grow. So we were not about to go out and use our money on a Stromille Swift, Donyell Marshall type. Not the best move for the short term but it will be in the long run. So we were not going for an upgrade per se at the PF spot. We were not going to spend any cash on a C with Raef and Mark and Perk here. We do not and did not need any wing players. And at PG I think Danny wanted to give the guys we have a shot. I think he and Doc are convinced that with some time Delonte is the guy. So that left us with perhaps two needs to fill, a back-up PF and maybe a vet guard.

However the big thing with these two spots is that we don't want anyone who is going to complain if they don't get minutes because with this up and coming team no miuntes to little minutes could be reality. That alone eliminated a lot of folks. I think that made Brian attractive. Here is a guy who could play bigger minutes for you or never play at all but would not complain about either one.

Anige also has repeatedly said that Scalabrine is a intangibles type of player. the C's brass has been stressing the intangibles he brings to a very impressionable young team. Look at the play at the end of the Charlotte game where he just blocked Okafor out of the play so Paul could get the easy game winner. His numbers are his numbers. This years Celtics seems more mature and more composed than last years - including Pierce. I know #1AWFAN posts Scabs numbers daily partly as a joke. But people in here as far as #'s should have expected that.

People can insert their favorite joke here but some people are just never happy. Had Ainge gotten a much better PF with our MLE, like Stromille Swift, people would be asking, what about Al Jefferson? Why didn't we just keep Antoine, etc, etc. 

I think Scabs fit our teams particualr needs very well and for that is worth more than the league minimum. 

I can live with Scabs on the Celtics.

Signed - 

_Causeway_
*Founder and President 
I Can Live With Scabs Club*


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## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

I had a long post typed out, but then I deleted it because it was unecessary because you never once touched on the real issue. People wouldn't be nearly as choked about Scalabrine's atrocious play if he wasn't getting paid $15 million freaking dollars to do it.


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## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

P-Dub34 said:


> I had a long post typed out, but then I deleted it because it was unecessary because you never once touched on the real issue. People wouldn't be nearly as choked about Scalabrine's atrocious play if he wasn't getting paid $15 million freaking dollars to do it.


Wrong.

I touched on his salary here:



> I think Scabs fit our teams particualr needs very well and for that is *worth more than the league minimum*.


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## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

And PDUB in that case you did not touch on my question:

Who could we have gotten for less money who would be a better player AND have the intangibles of Scabs AND have the attitude that Scabs brings to the table AND be happy not getting a lot of minutes?


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## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

> Wrong.
> 
> I touched on his salary here:


I stand corrected. But why give him 5 years, $15 mill? I find it extremely hard to believe that any other club was offering that kind of cash, and if they were, DA would've been wiser to let him go. The Nets were content to let him go to their division rivals. Shows that they think (and are correct in thinking) that he has little to no positive impact on a team.



> Who could we have gotten for less money who would be a better player AND have the intangibles of Scabs AND have the attitude that Scabs brings to the table AND be happy not getting a lot of minutes?


Once we saw what he was asking, there is no way he should've been signed. He's playing, what, 10mpg? You telling me those minutes couldn't be adequately filled by Jefferson, LaF, Blount, Perkins, or Gomes? I don't agree with signing him in the first place, much less for this kind of dough.


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## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

P-Dub34 said:


> I stand corrected. But why give him 5 years, $15 mill? I find it extremely hard to believe that any other club was offering that kind of cash, and if they were, DA would've been wiser to let him go. The Nets were content to let him go to their division rivals. Shows that they think (and are correct in thinking) that he has little to no positive impact on a team.


I disagree. What is the only difference player wise between the red hot Nets of April 2005 and the mediocre Nets of November 2005? Scabs. Now I am not saying he was the only reason they were red hot - but it is very possible they miss having him around. Intangibles. 



P-Dub34 said:


> Once we saw what he was asking, there is no way he should've been signed. He's playing, what, 10mpg? You telling me those minutes couldn't be adequately filled by Jefferson, LaF, Blount, Perkins, or Gomes? I don't agree with signing him in the first place, much less for this kind of dough.


Jefferson plays about as much as he can play without fouling out. He comes in and almost instantly has two fouls a lot of times. Doc is not looking for ways to not play him. He is looking for Al to keep himself on the floor. And as soon as Al figures it out he won't have his minutes restricted in any way because of Brian Scalabrine. Al is 20 years old. This goes back to a point about why Brian was brought in. He obviously is not as talented as Donyell Marshall and Stromille Swift but even if those guys had wanted to come here, we didn't want them because of Al Jefferson. Brian was brought in so Al could play when ready. 

Perk needs to learn to stay on the floor as well.

The other back-up big man is Blount at this point. Brian can have all of his minutes as far as I am concerned. 

If we could have gotten him for less money that would have been better - but you could say that about anyone one the team. The same for less $ would be better.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

Scott Padgett & Matt Bonner are making minimum salaries and provide better performance than Scabies. They even have his vaunted "intangibles" because they're white too.


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

Causeway said:


> And PDUB in that case you did not touch on my question:
> 
> Who could we have gotten for less money who would be a better player AND have the intangibles of Scabs AND have the attitude that Scabs brings to the table AND be happy not getting a lot of minutes?



Brian Scalabrine. He's not a bad player, but there was absolutly no reason to go out and give this guy three million per year for five years.

It's not the player that people hate so much, it's the money and years.

This is how I see the signing of Veal:

*At an auction*

Person A: All right, Brian Scalabrine is next. We'll start with a 800,000 dollar contract. Do I hear 800,000?

*Everyone's quiet*

Danny Ainge: 3 MILLION FOR 5 YEARS.

Person A: 3 MILLION FOR 5 YEARS, GOING ONCE, GOING TWICE, SOLD.


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

Oh crap, there were three replies while I was typing.


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## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

ehmunro said:


> Scott Padgett & Matt Bonner are making minimum salaries and provide better performance than Scabies. They even have his vaunted "intangibles" because they're white too.


Right - I forgot to add that the fact that he's white - which is not cool - also bothers people.


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## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

For the record, I would much rather have Bonner and Padgett over Scalabrine.



> Person A: All right, Brian Scalabrine is next. We'll start with a 800,000 dollar contract. Do I hear 800,000?
> 
> *Everyone's quiet*
> 
> Danny Ainge: 3 MILLION FOR 5 YEARS.


That's awesome.


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## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

> Person A: All right, Brian Scalabrine is next. We'll start with a 800,000 dollar contract. Do I hear 800,000?
> 
> *Everyone's quiet*
> 
> Danny Ainge: 3 MILLION FOR 5 YEARS.


It's possible it went down something like that. But if true that's Ainge's fault not Scabs. And again a better player for the $ Scabs is getting would not be happy with the minutes.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

A better player for Scalabrine's money would've been playing more minutes over the likes of Justin Reed and Ryan Gomes. He would've also limited the amount of minutes Ricky gets with Pierce sliding down to shooting guard.


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## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

Premier said:


> A better player for Scalabrine's money would've been playing more minutes over the likes of Justin Reed and Ryan Gomes. He would've also limited the amount of minutes Ricky gets with Pierce sliding down to shooting guard.


So we'd want someone who'd take minutes from Reed and Gomes? Or we want to give these guys a shot at playing and growing?


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

I wouldn't mind.

Reed and Gomes aren't projects and they will develop fine without a lot of minutes during their first few seasons.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

Causeway said:


> It's possible it went down something like that. But if true that's Ainge's fault not Scabs. And again a better player for the $ Scabs is getting would not be happy with the minutes.


How many more league minimum players producing more while playing fewer minutes do we have to name before you concede? Second, Scabies' _inability_ to really challenge Jefferson for minutes has probably contributed to Jefferson's lassitude this year. Pachulia (for the same money) would have been a far better signing, as he would have pushed Jefferson to perform.


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## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

ehmunro said:


> How many more league minimum players producing more while playing fewer minutes do we have to name before you concede? Second, Scabies' _inability_ to really challenge Jefferson for minutes has probably contributed to Jefferson's lassitude this year. Pachulia (for the same money) would have been a far better signing, as he would have pushed Jefferson to perform.


Pachulia would have been nice. However I do not think anyone - who is being honest - could say they saw his (so far) 13 and 10 season coming. Plus he's getting 33 minutes. That would push AJ etc. further to the bench. And he's getting $4 million a year for 4 years (16 million). Not as you say "same money".


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

Pachulia? Um no thanx


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## BackwoodsBum (Jul 2, 2003)

ehmunro said:


> Scott Padgett & Matt Bonner are making minimum salaries and provide better performance than Scabies. They even have his vaunted "intangibles" because they're white too.


Is anyone else around here getting sick and tired of all this racial crap? Every time anyone mentions Scalabrine or Dickau someone jumps up and says they suck cause they are white. Hell, I'd take either one of them over Mark Blount and race hasn't got a damn thing to do with it. For years white athletes have gotten the reputation for being smart ball players but pitiful athletes and black athletes have gotten the reputation for being great athletes who have to get by on physical skills because they aren't as smart. I bet some of you would have called Bird, McHale, Walton, etc. "big white stiffs" too. Grow up guys, this is the 21st century. If you can't judge a guy based on his skills alone and ignore his race than you really need to get a life. :soapbox: 

Anyway, off my soapbox and back on topic, I would have prefered Matt Bonner too, but I don't think we would have been able to get him. He was pretty content to stay where he was so to get him we would have had to overpay him like we did Scalabrine and then he would be everyone's whipping boy. I think Causeway makes a lot of good points. Scalabrine is what he is, a marginal talent but a good guy to have on the team. Yeah he is overpaid, but you and I don't pay his salary so what does it matter to us? I don't think he is taking minutes away from any of our kids, if anyone is doing that it's Blount (and to Doc's credit his minutes are dropping). Other than his contract I think Scalabrine is doing about what he was expected to do, be a good guy in the locker room, hustle when he is on the floor, and not complain when he rides the pine. You can't have a team full of superstars so a guy like that is needed from time to time.


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

Amen, Backwoods


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

Causeway said:


> Pachulia would have been nice. However I do not think anyone - who is being honest - could say they saw his (so far) 13 and 10 season coming.


His /40s for his career were 13 and 11. It shouldn't have been _that_ much of a surprise to people that he's producing with time. His rebrate was 15.9 last year, and he's been a consistently good rebounder for his two years in the show. I guess these sorts of things are missed by casual fans.

Scalabrine's only ever played badly (as opposed to his normal performance of execrable) during his contract year. He won't begin to play that well again till the end of the decade. 



Causeway said:


> Plus he's getting 33 minutes. That would push AJ etc. further to the bench. And he's getting $4 million a year for 4 years (16 million). Not as you say "same money".


Yeah, why would you want a big man that puts up numbers like that when we can have Scabies' suckitude instead. More Pachulia= Less Blount and Less Raef. That would have been a very good thing.


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## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

BackwoodsBum said:


> Is anyone else around here getting sick and tired of all this racial crap?


yes! 



BackwoodsBum said:


> I think Causeway makes a lot of good points.


thanks. 



BackwoodsBum said:


> Scalabrine is what he is, a marginal talent but a good guy to have on the team. Yeah he is overpaid, but you and I don't pay his salary so what does it matter to us? I don't think he is taking minutes away from any of our kids, if anyone is doing that it's Blount (and to Doc's credit his minutes are dropping). Other than his contract I think Scalabrine is doing about what he was expected to do, be a good guy in the locker room, hustle when he is on the floor, and not complain when he rides the pine. You can't have a team full of superstars so a guy like that is needed from time to time.


agreed. I guess that makes two of us.


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## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

ehmunro said:


> I guess these sorts of things are missed by casual fans.


do you constantly have to bait people into crap?



> Yeah, why would you want a big man that puts up numbers like that when we can have Scabies' suckitude instead. More Pachulia= Less Blount and Less Raef. That would have been a very good thing.


that was not the point but once again - why stick to the point? The point clearly made was...
we let Walker go (fine by me but besides the point) to make room for AJ. Then we were going to sign someone else to take minutes from AJ? That was not Danny's goal. I guess this is missed by casual fans.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

BackwoodsBum said:


> Is anyone else around here getting sick and tired of all this racial crap? Every time anyone mentions Scalabrine or Dickau someone jumps up and says they suck cause they are white.


Are you seriously deluded enough to believe that people would think Scabies and Spotted Dickau were good if only they were African-American? I mean, really? Funny, I was under the impression that Dickau sucked because Alexa Flutie lit him up for 17 points in a scrimmage. I was under the impression that Scabies sucks because he provides less performance than Inflatable Elvis.



BackwoodsBum said:


> For years white athletes have gotten the reputation for being smart ball players but pitiful athletes and black athletes have gotten the reputation for being great athletes who have to get by on physical skills because they aren't as smart. I bet some of you would have called Bird, McHale, Walton, etc. "big white stiffs" too.


OK, I see you've answered my question above.



BackwoodsBum said:


> Anyway, off my soapbox and back on topic, I would have prefered Matt Bonner too, but I don't think we would have been able to get him. He was pretty content to stay where he was so to get him we would have had to overpay him like we did Scalabrine and then he would be everyone's whipping boy.


Matt Bonner grew up an hour north of me. This is home for him. He makes vet's minimum money playing in one of the highest taxed jurisdictions in the NBA. It wouldn't have been that hard to get him to come home to play someplace where he could get a large raise just based on the tax reduction.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

Causeway said:


> do you constantly have to bait people into crap?


You spout it continuously without need for baiting.



Causeway said:


> that was not the point but once again - why stick to the point? The point clearly made was...we let Walker go (fine by me but besides the point) to make room for AJ. Then we were going to sign someone else to take minutes from AJ? That was not Danny's goal. I guess this is missed by casual fans.


And this year, with zero competition for minutes, Jefferson's been coasting. Let's not even start on Blount's coasting and Lafrentz's rapidly declining game. Have you forgot that the $69 million dollar man has worse knees than Antoine Walker? A player that could relegate both of those guys (Creampuff & the Marshmallow Man) to less than 20 minutes a game would have made the team competitive. Instead they went out and overpaid someone _even worse_.


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## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

ehmunro said:


> Are you seriously deluded enough to believe that people would think Scabies and Spotted Dickau were good if only they were African-American? I mean, really? Funny, I was under the impression that Dickau sucked because Alexa Flutie lit him up for 17 points in a scrimmage. I was under the impression that Scabies sucks because he provides less performance than Inflatable Elvis.


his point obviously was not that if Scabs was African-American he'd be better. It's that pretty much every time Scabs comes up you have to mention that he's white. Or a honky.


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## BackwoodsBum (Jul 2, 2003)

ehmunro said:


> Are you seriously deluded enough to believe that people would think Scabies and Spotted Dickau were good if only they were African-American? I mean, really? Funny, I was under the impression that Dickau sucked because Alexa Flutie lit him up for 17 points in a scrimmage. I was under the impression that Scabies sucks because he provides less performance than Inflatable Elvis.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm not deluded, I'm disgusted. It's sad that some people are so shallow minded that they can't see past the color of a person's skin. Dickau and Scalabrine would be the same players they are now regardless of their race, but I doubt their race would be pointed out every time their name is mentioned. Can you imagine the outcry if every time Blount's name was mentioned everyone called him a "black stiff". I can promise you that the mod's would delete that response immedietly and rightly so IMHO. A stiff is a stiff regardless of his race and people that can't understand that need join the real world. Believe me, living in the south I see racisim on a daily basis and I don't care if it's directed towards, blacks, whites, hispanics, etc. there's no rational excuse for it. A good friend of mine has a plaque on the wall of his office that I think is very appropriate. It says "Racial prejudice is the crutch that props up one's own insecurities". Makes you think doesn't it?


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## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

> You spout it continuously without need for baiting.


according to you. whose opinion I hold no value.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

Causeway said:


> his point obviously was not that if Scabs was African-American he'd be better. It's that pretty much every time Scabs comes up you have to mention that he's white. Or a honky.


ummm, no, what I mention every time the subject comes up is that he sucks like Greenwich Village drag queen. And that his signing ended up costing Boston the traded player exception that they got in the Walker deal. The only time I mention his skin colour is when you get up to whine like a spoiled child, "Name me one player that could provide Scalabrine's production in the same time he plays. Just one, I dare you, just one!!!" This invariably produces a list about 100 players long, and I even note that many of the replicate Scabies' only "skill". The funniest part of this exchange is BB bemoaning racial stereotypes while you list _every stereotype imaginable_ about white players as his virtues. Truly high comedy. Am I a white racist for continuously posting the Inflatable Elvis picture? Maybe I hate Asians because I think Yao Ming is overrated? Maybe I hate Latinos because I think Manu Ginobli way overrated? Or maybe, unlike some people in this thread, I don't see ethnicity as a virtue. I just call a keg of Schlitz a keg of Schlitz. And Brian Scalabrine is a whole tanker truck full of Schlitz.


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## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

ehmunro said:


> The only time I mention his skin colour is when you get up to whine like a spoiled child, "Name me one player that could provide Scalabrine's production in the same time he plays. Just one, I dare you, just one!!!"


Another lie. Never said it. But I am used to this from you. 



ehmunro said:


> The funniest part of this exchange is BB bemoaning racial stereotypes while you list _every stereotype imaginable_ about white players as his virtues.


really? like what? I have said that Scabs hustles. This is a white stereotype? News to me. I have said that he does not complain about what is asked of him. This is a white stereotype? Again news to me. I have said he does little things that don't show up on stat sheets like the play that helped PP get an open shot. This is a white stereotype? Interesting. I have said that I think he practices hard. This is a white stereotype??? ok.


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

Causeway said:


> really? like what? I have said that Scabs hustles. This is a white stereotype? News to me. I have said that he does not complain about what is asked of him. This is a white stereotype? Again news to me. I have said he does little things that don't show up on stat sheets like the play that helped PP get an open shot. This is a white stereotype? Interesting. I have said that I think he practices hard. This is a white stereotype??? ok.



actually...yes these are for the most part white stereotypes in sport...ive taken a sociology of sport class and they teach the fact that black athletes are always described as "natural, athletic, and gifted" whereas white athletes are always described as "hard working, hustling, he does the little things"...im not making this up just tryin got shed some knowledge that i have acquired through college


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

BackwoodsBum said:


> Yeah he is overpaid, but you and I don't pay his salary so what does it matter to us?



do u ever buy a ridiculously overpriced ticket to the game???...or a 12 dollar plate of nachos??? if you do you are paying his salary...fyi


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## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

So when I commented that during the game where Perks got one rebound (after his 19 rebound performance) that he still hustled after every ball and tipped many - even though he did not grab as many - I was saying he was white? Give me a break. 

I'd say calling someone a "honky" at every opportunity is pretty clear cut. What you are talking about is a stretch at best. 

I earlier was going to compare Scabs to ML Carr from back in the day. A great attitude guy that teams need. Does that mean I am calling ML White?


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

Is there a game tonight or are we really into this thread that 20 people are online?


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

Unlike Scabies M.L. could actually play basketball.


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

Causeway said:


> So when I commented that during the game where Perks got one rebound (after his 19 rebound performance) that he still hustled after every ball and tipped many - even though he did not grab as many - I was saying he was white? Give me a break.
> 
> I'd say calling someone a "honky" at every opportunity is pretty clear cut. What you are talking about is a stretch at best.
> 
> I earlier was going to compare Scabs to ML Carr from back in the day. A great attitude guy that teams need. Does that mean I am calling ML White?



pay attention to broadcasts ull realize it...i didnt believe it at first either butt listen to what announcers say about african american players and about white players...they will almost never say a white player is athletic or the game comes natural to them, the white player has always "worked hard" to get where he is...on the other hand for a black player the game comes easy to them, they have instincts for the ball, they are naturally talented, they were born to play the game...as i said im not making this up its been documented and studied for years


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## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

what did you learn in this class about calling a white guy a honky at every opportunity?


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

Causeway said:


> what did you learn in this class about calling a white guy a honky at every opportunity?




lol...in general it would be racist...but if the guy whos calling him a honky is white then its just...umm...strange? haha


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## LX (Oct 14, 2004)

#1AntoineWalkerFan said:


> lol...in general it would be racist...but if the guy whos calling him a honky is white then its just...umm...strange? haha


I call him a ****** and I'm white.


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## cgcatsfan (Jun 10, 2005)

Causeway said:


> For some reason the Scabs signing seems to get some people very upset. Personally I don't see what the big issue is. Is he over paid based on his numbers? Sure. But is he a good player to have on a team? I think so. Yes he is not the most gifted athlete or hoops player. However he has a great attitude, works hard, plays smart, is willing to take whatever role asked of him. I do not know this for fact but my bet is he's a hard practice guy and does not think about touches.
> 
> Other players with bigger contracts over the years who barely got out of street clothes got more of a break. So why all the bad energy towards Scabs?
> 
> ...


1. Yes, he is grossly overpaid. He's a great blogger and a nice guy, but he's taking up cap room for little return. 
2. I don't think he's better than Gomes. At all. 
3. We want someone better. We could live with fewer minutes while the rookies develop if the trade off was a significant contribution to the team. 
Having said that, I have previously stated that I truly believe that Scalabrine has come to represent all the bad moves that Boston has ever made.


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## vandyke (Jan 8, 2004)

I can live with Scabs, Scabs is not the problem with this team, the problem with this team is we have two bigs (LaFrentz and Blount) who turn the ball over too damn much, can't seem to grab a rebound to save their lives, I have never seen two players who lose more balls off their hands than those two. If there was any way possible we could get rid of one or both of them for any big that can grab a rebound, (Olowakandi, Foyle anybody) I would take that in a second and I would actually play Scabs more at the 4.


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## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

vandyke said:


> I can live with Scabs, Scabs is not the problem with this team, the problem with this team is we have two bigs (LaFrentz and Blount) who turn the ball over too damn much, can't seem to grab a rebound to save their lives, I have never seen two players who lose more balls off their hands than those two. If there was any way possible we could get rid of one or both of them for any big that can grab a rebound, (Olowakandi, Foyle anybody) I would take that in a second and I would actually play Scabs more at the 4.


 :clap: nice post.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

vandyke said:


> I can live with Scabs, Scabs is not the problem with this team, the problem with this team is we have two bigs (LaFrentz and Blount) who turn the ball over too damn much, can't seem to grab a rebound to save their lives, I have never seen two players who lose more balls off their hands than those two. If there was any way possible we could get rid of one or both of them for any big that can grab a rebound, (Olowakandi, Foyle anybody) I would take that in a second and I would actually play Scabs more at the 4.


But isn't that the point? If they'd signed someone like Pachulia would Blount & Lafrentz still be logging all those minutes? Instead, because they signed Scabies, Jefferson coasted and we're getting way too many minutes from übersoft post players. I mean, jaysus, Blount's the new spokesman for Charmin and Sta-Puff Marshmallow has licensed Raef as their new logo. Thanks to Ainge getting the Scabies the Celtics really can't even trade for a decent big man because the Walker TPE had to be squandered on Spotted Dickau (the worst dessert treat this side of malted liver balls).


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## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

...


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## vandyke (Jan 8, 2004)

ehmunro said:


> But isn't that the point? If they'd signed someone like Pachulia would Blount & Lafrentz still be logging all those minutes? Instead, because they signed Scabies, Jefferson coasted and we're getting way too many minutes from übersoft post players. I mean, jaysus, Blount's the new spokesman for Charmin and Sta-Puff Marshmallow has licensed Raef as their new logo. Thanks to Ainge getting the Scabies the Celtics really can't even trade for a decent big man because the Walker TPE had to be squandered on Spotted Dickau (the worst dessert treat this side of malted liver balls).


That's pretty funny and you are right, but I just couldn't see this team with Blount,LaFrentz,Jefferson,Perkins, and Pachulia you would have had to get rid of either Blount or LaFrentz before signing a Pachulia, and I think they were more in the market for a 3 that could move to a four when you want to go to a smaller line-up. I also thought and I still do, and I don't know if anyone agrees with me but don't you think Scalabrine was more of an addition by subtraction, don't you think that us adding Scalabrine was more of an effort to subtract from NJ's depth than anything else.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

Scalabrine would've made New Jersey worse. There is a reason why they didn't pursue him as a free agent opting for Marc Jackson, a power forward/center who can actually shoot, instead.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

vandyke said:


> I also thought and I still do, and I don't know if anyone agrees with me but don't you think Scalabrine was more of an addition by subtraction, don't you think that us adding Scalabrine was more of an effort to subtract from NJ's depth than anything else.


New Jersey had no interest in Scalabrine. They signed Scott Padgett to a league minimum deal to _upgrade_ the position. After that they acquired Marc Jackson because he isn't a liability on offense.


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## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

NJ is struggling.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

Not because of Scalabrine.

To even suggest this is simply unreasonable.


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## P2TheTruth34 (May 25, 2003)

I dont think this issue is too complex. If you can deal with what Scalabs brings to the table, for the next 5 years than god bless. But i personally just feel that we could have used the 3 million annually wiser. I admit its not like we were going to get a great player with the money, but scalabrine is not even a decent player IMO, or at least hasn't been at all in his Celtics games. the thing that i hope whenever we sign someone, no matter how one dimensional they are, is that they have one trait which the team can benefit. whether we sign a guy or not immediately in the offseason isn't a big deal if the guy we are pursuing is forcing an inadequate contract.
Also, I know he known as a team guy, but if he is not performing players will not be happy with him. When he comes in I've noticed Pierce always looks pissed. Not sure if its been coincidence or not.
5 years is what kills me, one year as a bench filler if noones available, maybe..


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## banner17 (Jun 28, 2003)

All I have to say to the author of this thread - 

Optimism is Overated


it was a bad signing. You can spin this however you want. Talk about minutes lost or gained for the young players or Walker (whom I really don't view has anything at all do with the Veal signing) Throw stats at me that I've never heard of, like the nights that Veal does volunteer to pick Doc's nose results in better defense than the nights he doesn't. 

It was a worthless signing - both in terms of the player and most importantly the contract. The only GM in the league who would give Veal such a contract is Ainge. I wonder if Brian wear's number 44 as a living billboard to Danny Ainge to remind Danny what a sucker he is for giving him that contract.


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## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

banner17 said:


> All I have to say to the author of this thread -
> 
> Optimism is Overated
> 
> ...


All I have to say to the author of the above post is:

Pessimism is Contagious  

The signing made sense. I still have not heard of a better player out there _for the Celtics _ than Scabs who also would _not complain about little to no minutes_ or step up if asked to play more.

Teams need players like that. Granted he'll have more value when and if we actually get over the hump to become an elite team. 



> or Walker


shhh.


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## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

Premier said:


> Not because of Scalabrine.
> 
> To even suggest this is simply unreasonable.


going off facts - he's the only player that's different from the red-hot end of the season Nets and the average current Nets. It's a possibility. Not totally unreasonable. Unless all you think that matters are a guys numbers.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

Wait, is Causeway actually suggesting that the loss of Scalabrine is responsible for the Nets slow start? :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

I mean, really, you guys are getting on my case for referring to him by his proper title? I mean, sure it has nothing to with that slacker, Wince Carter, posting 28/6/5 numbers for the Nets last year before getting bored and checking out this year. :laugh:

Yeah, Scalabrine carried that Nets team on his back.


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## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

All I am saying is that people keep saying how the Nets didn't want Scabs so they could get new better guys and improve. Scabs left and they got worse. Fact. Is it all because of Scabs? Did anywhere I say that "Scalabrine carried that Nets team on his back"? No.


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## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

I'm compelled to agree that the Nets' struggles are much more due to Vince Carter deciding he doesn't feel like playing basketball anymore (part deux). Maybe Scalabrine's depature in some miniscule way, but I doubt it.


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## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

I have never been a big fan of Carters and the Nets as they are now will live and die by his performance. He lacks heart. Having said that attitude is contagious and the Nets appear to be a team playing with their heads down. If people want to say that NJ was happy to run Scabs out of town to get "better" - the fact is that it has not happened.


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## banner17 (Jun 28, 2003)

Causeway said:


> All I have to say to the author of the above post is:
> 
> Pessimism is Contagious
> 
> ...


All I have to say is that if Pessimism is contagious, I hope Danny becomes pessimistic and quick and does whatever possible to trade the guy.

The only reason why he isn't *****ing about lack of minutes is because he's too busy laughing all the way to the bank.

Look, I can live with the guy, but I'd much rather see Reed or Gomes on the floor. In saying that I can live with the guy there is no way in helena that you can convince me that this was a good signing for Boston. The contract is absurd. There isn't a gm in the league foolish enough to pay a stiff like Veal 3 mil per year for five years.

I and I'm sure I speak for the majority of the board here, wouldn't be upset at all if it were a one year deal at 3 million, but Five Years?!? That's just retarded for a bench player.


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## P2TheTruth34 (May 25, 2003)

what exactly does scabs bring onto the team that others cant bring? i cant see anything seperating his skills from some random fat idiot we could sign for the league minimum. who? i dont know, i dont care... as you say he shouldnt play anyways. why pay a guy 3 million a year when hes worse than walter? walter was a good teammate, they both suck.


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## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

Walter wanted more PT.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

Just sign Grant Long or someone rather than giving Scalabrine three million dollars per year for the next five seasons. It would put better players on the floor (Long wouldn't play) and would've given the team more leadership.


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

I've said it before, I'll say it again: Who could the Celtics have signed that's as good as Veal, cheaper and for less years? 

Well, Veal himself! There was no need for a five year deal.


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## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

I've said it before and I'll say it again: I can live with the Scabs signing.

I can understand not loving the contract but not to the level of the backlash towards Scabs. Especially when if what you are upset about is the $ and length of contract. If that's the issue then good for Scabs and bad on the guy who signed him.


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

Causeway said:


> I've said it before and I'll say it again: I can live with the Scabs signing.
> 
> I can understand not loving the contract but not to the level of the backlash towards Scabs. Especially when if what you are upset about is the $ and length of contract. If that's the issue then good for Scabs and bad on the guy who signed him.



We do, but then again, why were people complaining about Vin Baker? Complain about the guy who gave him the money.


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## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

Not really, There's a massive thread on Scabs being a "bum". Not an Ainge thread (who I think has done a nice job by the way).

And Vin is different. He had the talent. He just lacked the heart and had a booze problem. He deserved backlash IMO. He also is getting 5 million this year from the Celtics by the way.


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

Causeway said:


> Not really, There's a massive thread on Scabs being a "bum". Not an Ainge thread (who I think has done a nice job by the way).
> 
> And Vin is different. He had the talent. He just lacked the heart and had a booze problem. He deserved backlash IMO. He also is getting 5 million this year from the Celtics by the way.


So if you don't have talent it's ok to get a big contract?

There's nobody who was going to offer Veal five years and/or 15 million.


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## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

> So if you don't have talent it's ok to get a big contract?
> 
> There's nobody who was going to offer Veal five years and/or 15 million.


recap:

contract issues? blame Ainge and start an Ainge is a bum thread.

talent issues? Baker had higher expectations and did not come close. In fact we now pay him $5 million to do nothing. That's frustrating. Scabs on the other hand is doing exactly what he has done his whole career and what we should have expected. Regardless if he got a $2 dollar contract or a $50 million contract. The contract was not going to change his ability. It is what it is.


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

Causeway said:


> recap:
> 
> contract issues? blame Ainge and start an Ainge is a bum thread.
> 
> talent issues? Baker had higher expectations and did not come close. In fact we now pay him $5 million to do nothing. That's frustrating. * Scabs on the other hand is doing exactly what he has done his whole career* and what we should have expected. Regardless if he got a $2 dollar contract or a $50 million contract. The contract was not going to change his ability. It is what it is.




i still cannot agree with you on this causeway...saying that he is doing what hes done his whole career is like saying hes reached his peak and will never get better than he already is...if that is what you are saying, we shouldnt have signed a guy who has reached his peak at 2ppg to a 5 year contract...i expected him to improve...we all expect big Al to improve...whats so different with scalabrine???


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

Causeway said:


> recap:
> 
> contract issues? blame Ainge and start an Ainge is a bum thread.
> 
> talent issues? Baker had higher expectations and did not come close. In fact we now pay him $5 million to do nothing. That's frustrating. Scabs on the other hand is doing exactly what he has done his whole career and what we should have expected. Regardless if he got a $2 dollar contract or a $50 million contract. The contract was not going to change his ability. It is what it is.


A bum does not get 50 million dollars...well at least not from the other 29 teams in the league.

I've said it enough times that Danny's obsession with big contracts will kill us.


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## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

aquaitious said:


> A bum does not get 50 million dollars...well at least not from the other 29 teams in the league.
> 
> I've said it enough times that Danny's obsession with big contracts will kill us.


Fine. But once again that's Danny's doing not Scabs.


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## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

#1AntoineWalkerFan said:


> i still cannot agree with you on this causeway...saying that he is doing what hes done his whole career is like saying hes reached his peak and will never get better than he already is...if that is what you are saying, we shouldnt have signed a guy who has reached his peak at 2ppg to a 5 year contract...i expected him to improve...we all expect big Al to improve...whats so different with scalabrine???


What's the difference between Scabs and AJ? Do I really have to answer that? AJ was a monster coming out of HS. He has shown flashes of brilliance. There is allstar potential in AJ with the right coaching and the right workouts and him having the brain that it seems he has to go with the talent.

Did you honestly think you'd get more out of Scabs then what he's done in the past 4 seasons? If you did you saw something in him that I (and I'd say most people in here but who knows) never saw. I am not saying he "peeked" per say but he was not going up too much more. 

There's untapped and unrealized talent and potential - Al Jefferson. 

And there's you are what you are - Scabs. It does not take too much to see at tleast that difference.


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## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

Come to think of it #1AWFan maybe that's what this is all about. If you ("you" in general) thought that Scabs had this up-tapped potential and talent and the $3 million a year was proof of it - and now see that he's doing what he's been doing the past 4 seasons and not any better - I could see that being a disappoinment.

I honestly got with Scabs what I expected. Maybe that's why I can live with it and you are upset about his performance.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

I just don't like Scalabrine the player. I don't like that Ainge signed him (for any amount of money) and Rivers plays him (for any amount of minutes).

That is all.


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## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

Premier said:


> I just don't like Scalabrine the player. I don't like that Ainge signed him (for any amount of money) and Rivers plays him (for any amount of minutes).
> 
> That is all.


Maybe that is all for you but clearly he has touched a nerve in here or there would not be 15 pages or whatever on "Scabs is a bum".


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## banner17 (Jun 28, 2003)

More than the money, its the length of the contract that irks me. I don't think any non-rookie in the NBA deserves more than a three year contract, unless they are starter material, which Scabs clearly isn't. A rookie signing for 3 years with a team option for the fourth makes sense. A role player being signed for more than 3 years doesn't make sense to me at all. 

I will agree with you Causeway that Danny deserves the blame. I can't be angry at Veal for taking advantage of a stupid offer from a GM. That being said, just because he's getting paid, doesn't mean I think Scabs should play.


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

Causeway said:


> Come to think of it #1AWFan maybe that's what this is all about. If you ("you" in general) thought that Scabs had this up-tapped potential and talent and the $3 million a year was proof of it - and now see that he's doing what he's been doing the past 4 seasons and not any better - I could see that being a disappoinment.
> 
> I honestly got with Scabs what I expected. Maybe that's why I can live with it and you are upset about his performance.



yea maybe you are right...but this is one of the reasons why i was dissapointed...do you rememebr when the celtics first signed brian??...did you go to their website??...if you did it had a big picture of his mug and said CELTICS SIGN SCALABRINE! in big letters...i just didnt think stuff like that happened with players in the nba that cant score 2ppg...i thought ainge and the c's saw something that we did not...guess not...


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

Ah what the hell, deleting both your posts is just so much easier. -aqua


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## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

ehmunro said:


> Ah what the hell, deleting both your posts is just so much easier. -aqua


Ah what the hell, deleting both your posts is just so much easier. -aqua


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