# O'Neal to Toronto actually happening?



## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

> NEW YORK – After on-and-off again negotiations, the Indiana Pacers have agreed in principle to send six-time All-Star Jermaine O’Neal to the Toronto Raptors for point guard T.J. Ford and the 17th pick in Thursday’s NBA draft, a league executive said Wednesday.


http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_y...jermaineonealtraded062508&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

**** yeh!

This would go in the other thread, but as of now that's dedicated to my dumb argument.


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## Redeemed (Feb 2, 2008)

Omg!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Awesome!!!


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## PaCeRhOLiC (May 22, 2005)

This is another step backward for our already depleted organization. I'll miss Jermaine and I'm sad to see him go, and sadder to see Tinsley Jr. here.


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## Redeemed (Feb 2, 2008)

Hey Pacerholic you'll feel better when Toronto gets only about 20 games out of JO.


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## Knick Killer (Jul 16, 2006)

I haven't seen anything on T.V. yet to prove that this deal is actually official so I get all my hopes up. I'm sure this deal is done but the words "in principal" scare me. They scare me a lot actually.


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## PaCeRhOLiC (May 22, 2005)

DienerTime said:


> Hey Pacerholic you'll feel better when Toronto gets only about 20 games out of JO.




With our luck though DT, I bet he'll end up averaging 20+ pts. and 10+ rebounds, and will stay healthy the entire season.


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## DannyGranger33 (May 12, 2005)

Well according to Yahoo last year KG was a Sun and that deal fell apart

If this actually goes through, I have the fear we will take some scrub at 11 now.. I just hope Bird hits his head on his desk or something and becomes a great GM for a day tomorrow because we could make some noise with 2 firsts


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

PaCeRhOLiC said:


> This is another step backward for our already depleted organization. I'll miss Jermaine and I'm sad to see him go, and sadder to see Tinsley Jr. here.


Well, to be fair, it's more like Tinsley Sr. Ford is a better player.

I just want to stay as far away as possible from DeAndre Jordan. If Eric Gordon slips to 11, he'd be great, or Darrell Arthur, then maybe Kosta Koufos at 17.


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## Pacersthebest (Aug 6, 2005)

Ford an number 17? Pfffffffffffffffffffffffffff

Another NO for Bird.


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## Redeemed (Feb 2, 2008)

I think that getting Gordon at 11 and Arthur at 17 would be nice and i'd love this rotation.

Ford/Diener
Dunleavy/Gordon
Granger/ J. Graham/ Williams
Arthur/Williams/Diogu
Murphy/Foster/Nesterovic


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## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

if the pacers are getting ford and the 17th pick, it's a good deal for them. i'm a little surprised toronto would want to do that.


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## Redeemed (Feb 2, 2008)

Guys who do you hope the unnanounced player is? I would prefer Delfino to Graham but I think Graham is going to be who it is.


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## BlakeJesus (Feb 1, 2006)

Graham is nice bench player to have, very athletic.


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## PaCeRhOLiC (May 22, 2005)

rocketeer said:


> if the pacers are getting ford and the 17th pick, it's a good deal for them.



It wouldn't be so bad if we actually had a competent GM who knew what the draft was about, but since we don't that extra pick means absolutely nothing.


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## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

Great trade for you guys if at actually happens

Good luck this coming season


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

DienerTime said:


> Guys who do you hope the unnanounced player is? I would prefer Delfino to Graham but I think Graham is going to be who it is.


**** Delfino. We need both Grahams. That'd be insane.


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## PaCeRhOLiC (May 22, 2005)

Yeah I hope it's Graham also.


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## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

joey graham sucks so you shouldn't get too excited if he's involved.


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## crimedog (Jun 3, 2003)

joey graham REALLY sucks. it's not delfino...he's a RFA. 

you guys got a good deal I think. you all seem to be discounting rasho...he's never missed the playoffs, he's tough and he's the consummate pro. you'll like him...and he will not be that deep on the depth chart as the earlier post suggested. 

IF j'oneal is healthy, good deal for both, since we had to get rid of TJ.


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## billfindlay10 (Jan 24, 2003)

As a Raptor fan I will be pissed if we give up our first round pick. We got rid of Garbajosa, Primos will not be back, then we give up 2-3 for one in a trade....we may bring in Roko Ukic, but after that our team is looking pretty thin.


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## billfindlay10 (Jan 24, 2003)

rocketeer said:


> joey graham sucks so you shouldn't get too excited if he's involved.


Joey showed flashes, but his flashes are few and far between. He stopped jacking 3's and to me that helped his game. He can hit the mid range to 20 feet very well, he also makes free throws and will hustle.....he may be a 1oth man, but he is a good team player and great in the locker room.


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## Ruff Draft (Nov 21, 2004)

Awesome move for Indiana.


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## roux (Jun 20, 2006)

Aside from getting out of Oneals absurd contract i dont really see the benefit in this deal, everyone on here is so quick to point out JO inability to stay on the court when TJ Ford has suffered to career threatening spinal injuries. In my opinion you just swapped injury prone players, and Oneal is by far the better player of the 2. I hope getting Robin Lopez or whatever stiff thats going to replace jermaine at 17 makes it up for you. Toronto got you on this one in my opinion.


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## Redeemed (Feb 2, 2008)

TJ is only 25, O'Neal is 29. We are trying to get younger and Ford is a good starting point guard who averages over 16assists per 48 minutes, along with 12.1 ppg in 23 minutes. Those are awesome numbers. Now you add the 17th pick, which is important since Bird has been looking for one to pick one of his "guys" and its a good deal for us, especially if Joey Graham can finally become a decent player. Rasho is a nice expiring that could get us something in the middle of the year next year from a contender (phoenix is persuing him right now).


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## Knick Killer (Jul 16, 2006)

I saw Bryan Colangelo's (raptors gm) press conference just a few minutes ago. He didn't give up much information. He was very careful with his questions. He talked a lot about Ford and what they might possibly do with the 17th pick. He did admit he wouldn't be surprised if they traded it but he also mentioned 10-12 names of players he is interested in. It looks like we are going to have to wait until we really know anything. 



> However, Raptors GM Bryan Colangelo spoke to the media Wednesday afternoon and noted that the Raptors are involved in "four or five" conversations regarding Ford.
> 
> "We're talking about a player in T.J. that's an asset, a starting point guard in the NBA," Colangelo said. "There's been a lot of interest, and teams that have called and inquired have not put deals on the table that have been insulting in any regard. In fact, it's pretty apparent that T.J.'s value is very high."
> 
> "We are holding our cards close to the vest right now as we need to. Some of the deals could make us significantly better."


http://www.tsn.ca/nba/story/?id=241657&lid=headline&lpos=secStory_main#


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## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

billfindlay10 said:


> Joey showed flashes, but his flashes are few and far between. He stopped jacking 3's and to me that helped his game. He can hit the mid range to 20 feet very well, he also makes free throws and will hustle.....he may be a 1oth man, but he is a good team player and great in the locker room.


honestly i'm still trying to figure out what anyone saw in graham. he is athletic but is by no means a special athlete at the nba level. he played pf in college and was a bad defender that didn't play a lot of the perimeter, but just because he played at oklahoma state everyone hyped him up as some kind of star defensive prospect coming into the draft. but he was never a good defender even in college and was not really a good perimeter player either.


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## southeasy (Jun 11, 2003)

weird, from T.O. perspective i think you just robbed us.

i have little faith JO will return to his old form, maybe he could put all focus on defensive end and we could see a 24 & 8 Chris Bosh with a 14 & 12 + 2 block O'Neal. best case scenario for the big smoke.

Ford(potential top 10 PG, he's actually big in the clutch) Rasho(played his best ball, in his Entire career this past season, Check his final 15 games Pacer fans) + the 17th, pissed off many T.O. fans, not to mention the Graham/Humphries that could be included, still young, very physical guys that juust make this a steal for Indiana, could breakout there.

i hope T.O. also gets back Indy's 2nd rounder? ...or we just got duped.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

This is a great deal for IND if goes as reported.

To make the cash work, you'll get most likely Kapono or AP unless you get every bit player we have.

I'm not pleased as a Toronto Fan. JO is on the downswing, injury prone and has the salary of 1 max player and a solid contributor. One of the WORST salaries in the league for what he currently gives.

Compare this deal to the Gasol deal. I don't know what BC is thinking. They gave up fodder + picks for a durable player.

We gave up a solid chip, cap fodder that could actually play our pick for a player of lesser ability based on recent past.

IND>TOR unless the deal is somehow different than assumed.

I also find it funny in other posts that IND's second is the threshold for being duped. 2nds are essentially worthless, especially in a deal of this size. If BC was adamant about getting a 2nd or dead deal, he gets it. We're talking about 45 mill over 2 years gone. Think a 2nd will stand in the way?


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

Pacers Fan said:


> **** Delfino. We need both Grahams. That'd be insane.


It's got to be either Graham or Baston. There's no way that Toronto throws in Anthony Parker or Kapono. I doubt Indy would even want either of them, anyway.


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## PacersguyUSA (Sep 1, 2002)

DienerTime said:


> I think that getting Gordon at 11 and Arthur at 17 would be nice and i'd love this rotation.
> 
> Ford/Diener
> Gordon/Dunleavy
> ...



Fixed


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## pacerfan23 (Jun 14, 2005)

I liked the move, and it provide some relief financially. Plus a chance to develop to young talents from this draft.


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## Redeemed (Feb 2, 2008)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzopKcPYV54


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## rock747 (Aug 3, 2004)

We are going to be a young and up and coming team again. I'm excited for tommorrow.


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## Knick Killer (Jul 16, 2006)

Pacers Fan said:


> **** Delfino. We need both Grahams. That'd be insane.


That's nothing to get excited about. Yeah Joey Graham could turn out okay but neither of them are anything close to special. But I guess it would be kinda neat to have brothers on the team.


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

Knick_Killer31 said:


> That's nothing to get excited about. Yeah Joey Graham could turn out okay but neither of them are anything close to special. But I guess it would be kinda neat to have brothers on the team.


That's basically it. You know, scrub time when Philadelphia's beating us by 37 points with 3 minutes and 52 seconds left in the fourth quarter. Enter both Grahams. It'd be cool and a reason to watch.


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

This is great for the Pacers. O'Neal's an injury prone ghost who might give you half the offensive production he was capable of 4 years ago, he has one of the very worst contracts in the league, and somehow the Pacers managed to squeeze a quality starting PG, an expiring contract, and a draft pick out of Toronto for him. Yes Larry Bird's had a questionable tenure as Indy's GM, but this is a good trade.


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## Knick Killer (Jul 16, 2006)

Pacers Fan said:


> That's basically it. You know, scrub time when Philadelphia's beating us by 37 points with 3 minutes and 52 seconds left in the fourth quarter. Enter both Grahams. It'd be cool and a reason to watch.


And im sure we'll have many opportunities to watch the Grahams shine in their "Scrub time".


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## ATCQ (Jun 16, 2005)

i don't mean to rain on your parade guys, but the word out of toronto right now is that the throw-in is likely going to be maceo baston, not joey graham... not that i would have any problem parting with joey...


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## Wade County (Jun 22, 2003)

Not a bad trade for Pacers. Jermaine's value is at an all time low - so its about as good as you could get.

Tinsley is firmly on the trade market now.


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## gi0rdun (May 31, 2007)

Joey Graham and Stephen Graham in Toronto? YES!


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## B_&_B (Feb 19, 2004)

Even though Ford comes with some injury baggage and a minor fall could end his career... I think you guys came out great in this deal. J.O'neal's a good player, but when was the last time he played even 80% of the games in a season?


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## StephenJackson (Oct 28, 2004)

Well, I'm back. I had to come back for this one.

And, ugh. Of course I am torn to see my favorite player go. And nothing against Ford...but I'm assuming the whole purpose of this trade is to 1. get rid of JO's contract, and 2. get rid of his injury proneness...so why trade for another injury prone player who could have a career ending fall during any game...or even practice for that matter.

My only prayer is that Bird has another big trade in mind that will make this all make sense in the long run, otherwise we are looking at a big rebuilding process here, which is always harder to do with a small market team.

Hopefully we can package something like Tinsley and Murphy somewhere for a decent big man. I gained confidence in Dunleavy last year, and assuming Ford can stay healthy, a Ford, Dunleavy, Granger trio could be nice if we can get a solid big man with a strong interior offensive presence. Otherwise, this is going to be a rough year.

Personally, I am torn. Not being from Indiana, I was always a die hard Pacers fan because of Reggie Miller. When he left, he left behind JO who was my next favorite player, so there we had it...I stayed on board. I definitely have grown to love this franchise, and I had a lot of fun watching our guys last year, especially at the end of the season. But to see JO go hurts a lot, and I will definitely be routing for him. Nothing against Canadians, but I can't believe I'm going to be a fan of the Canadian team. The biggest question that I will face is where my loyalty lies...with the Pacers...or with JO. Right now, I really have no clue. If Bird can make something happen today that makes me say "Ohhhhh....okay," then I will likely stay a strong Pacers fan...but a boneheaded day by Bird today and....


I just don't know.

One thing is for sure...I will miss you JO. You got ragged on so much by fans here because of your injuries. I think you have a heck of a lot of heart, and I know Reggie will always agree with that. The Raptors have already become at least my second favorite team, so I guess I will see you in Toronto.


-Jax


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## DannyGranger33 (May 12, 2005)

Updated trade:

Pacers get:
TJ Ford
Rasho Nesterovic
Maceo Baston
17th overall pick

Raptors get:
Jermaine O'Neal
41st overall pick


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## Hail Yinka (Jul 3, 2006)

PaCeRhOLiC said:


> This is another step backward for our already depleted organization. I'll miss Jermaine and I'm sad to see him go, and sadder to see Tinsley Jr. here.


i knew you wouldnt like it, but this is a move that has to be made for both parties. even if JO were to get healthy again indiana was not winning a title.....its best for them to part ways. the pacers can now rebuild and get rid of his contract which is one of the worst in the league. ford is definitely a risk but i think he will work out fine and this was the best move they could make as far as dumping salary, getting a need at PG, gettin an expiring contract, and gettin younger. JO goes to a situation where he could be playin for a contender in the east provided he's healthy. its a win-win situation and JO deserves better than the pacers at this point.


jermaine will definitely be missed, and i consider him a pacer always. even when he was injured and fans wanted him gone i never wanted to see him traded. he is a stand up individual and showed a lot of heart stayin on the court when he really shouldnt have.


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## PaCeRhOLiC (May 22, 2005)

Hail Yinka said:


> i knew you wouldnt like it, but this is a move that has to be made for both parties. even if JO were to get healthy again indiana was not winning a title.....its best for them to part ways. the pacers can now rebuild and get rid of his contract which is one of the worst in the league. ford is definitely a risk but i think he will work out fine and this was the best move they could make as far as dumping salary, getting a need at PG, gettin an expiring contract, and gettin younger. JO goes to a situation where he could be playin for a contender in the east provided he's healthy. its a win-win situation and JO deserves better than the pacers at this point.
> 
> 
> jermaine will definitely be missed, and i consider him a pacer always. even when he was injured and fans wanted him gone i never wanted to see him traded. he is a stand up individual and showed a lot of heart stayin on the court when he really shouldnt have.








Very good post as usual Yinka, and you're definetly right about him deserving better, and him always being a Pacer. He was nothing but class while he was here, and I have nothing but love, and respect for my man JO...:cheers:


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## Pacersthebest (Aug 6, 2005)

PaCeRhOLiC said:


> Very good post as usual Yinka, and you're definetly right about him deserving better, and him always being a Pacer. He was nothing but class while he was here, and I have nothing but love, and respect for my man JO...:cheers:


I agree with you also my friend.

But, it's better for O'neal and the Pacers to do this trade.


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## PaCeRhOLiC (May 22, 2005)

Pacersthebest said:


> I agree with you also my friend.



Nice to have you back, and great to see you as always brother!...:buddies:


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## Knick Killer (Jul 16, 2006)

At times I've made it seem like I hate Jermaine O'neal. That's not true. I like Jermaine O'neal, I really do. I appreciate what he did for us but the longer he was a Pacer, the farther he was dragging us down. I'm glad to see him go to my second favorite team where I will get to see him play all the time along side a young star Chris Bosh. I can't wait. Hopefully the Raptors can do some serious damage in the East with JO on their side. It should be a fun and exciting season next year. Our team will be totally different and hopefully more entertaining than the squad we had last season.


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