# We are all dwitnesses



## Greg Ostertag! (May 1, 2003)

Just sayin', yo.

The NBA has a new ruler and/or overlord.

Right now he is the answer to the questions "Who will be the 2008 NBA MVP?" and "Who would you turn for?"


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Because the guy who has been averaging 40/10/10 is suddenly old news? Good grief.


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## Hairy Midget (Nov 28, 2005)

futuristxen said:


> Because the guy who has been averaging 40/10/10 is suddenly old news? Good grief.


Think you mean 30/7.6/8


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## Ras (Jul 25, 2005)

Hairy Midget said:


> Think you mean 30/7.6/8


No, I think you mean 37.6 ppg/9.3 rpg/10.0 apg. That's what he averaged for the 7 games he play before he got injured, and I'm sure that's what she was referring to. Now, I may be jumping the gun, but I feel I shouldn't be surprised that you posted that considering how much of a Dwight fan you are.


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## Hairy Midget (Nov 28, 2005)

Ras said:


> No, I think you mean 37.6 ppg/9.3 rpg/10.0 apg. That's what he averaged for the 7 games he play before he got injured, and I'm sure that's what she was referring to. Now, I may be jumping the gun, but I feel I shouldn't be surprised that you posted that considering how much of a Dwight fan you are.


Sorry, didn't know we were skewing numbers to make them look better.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

31/8/8/2/2 vs 24/15/1/1/3

Would you rather have the extra 7 rebounds and 1 blocked shot per night, or the extra 7 points, 7 assists, 1 steal? Statistically and realistically, Howard is playing really great, but he's not on Lebron's level. Lebron is playing on a level with Chamberlain, Jordan, and the Big O this year.

DHowards statistics this year are almost identical to Shaq's rookie year numbers. I just noticed that. Very cool. Shaq actually blocked more shots, if you can believe that. He blocked 3.5 per game.

God I miss Shaq. I didn't think I ever would. But I do. Watching him play last night, I just wished he would have started smashing dunks on people. So sad.


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## Duck (Jan 30, 2006)

> 31/8/8/2/2 vs 24/15/1/1/3
> 
> Would you rather have the extra 7 rebounds and 1 blocked shot per night, or the extra 7 points, 7 assists, 1 steal? Statistically and realistically, Howard is playing really great, but he's not on Lebron's level. *Lebron is playing on a level with Chamberlain, Jordan, and the Big O this year.*
> 
> ...


I could have sworn Jordan, Chamberlain and Oscar Robertson played on teams that played .500+ ball. 

And please don't give me that **** about it being early in the year and the Cavs are going to win like 20 games in a row when 'Bron gets healthy and the Magic are going to magically suck. Also, before you do, I don't care that the Cavs are reigning Eastern Conference champs. You're talking about this year, so let's talk about this year.


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## Jizzy (Aug 24, 2005)

now ur going overboard.


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## Duck (Jan 30, 2006)

Jizzy said:


> now ur going overboard.


this comparison bull**** is so pointless and tedious.They play two different roles on two very different teams.


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## Pimped Out (May 4, 2005)

Duck34234 said:


> I could have sworn Jordan, Chamberlain and Oscar Robertson played on teams that played .500+ ball.
> 
> And please don't give me that **** about it being early in the year and the Cavs are going to win like 20 games in a row when 'Bron gets healthy and the Magic are going to magically suck. Also, before you do, I don't care that the Cavs are reigning Eastern Conference champs. You're talking about this year, so let's talk about this year.


http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CHI/1987.html


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Duck34234 said:


> I could have sworn *Lebron James,* Jordan, Chamberlain and Oscar Robertson played on teams that played .500+ ball.
> 
> And please don't give me that **** about it being early in the year and the Cavs are going to win like 20 games in a row when 'Bron gets healthy and the Magic are going to magically suck. Also, before you do, I don't care that the Cavs are reigning Eastern Conference champs. You're talking about this year, so let's talk about this year.


Fixed.


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## arhie (Jul 4, 2006)

Pimped out it would have better if you showed Mike when he got 30 8 8 instead. 
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CHI/1989.html
Now those wins and losses are prolly going to be somehwat like the Cavs.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Duck34234 said:


> I could have sworn Jordan, Chamberlain and Oscar Robertson played on teams that played .500+ ball.


I could have sworn the Cavs were +.500. They'd be even farther above .500 but Lebron has missed the last two games against the Pistons and Raptors respectively. At least Lebron can get out of the first round of the playoffs.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Duck34234 said:


> this comparison bull**** is so pointless and tedious.They play two different roles on two very different teams.


Right. But we're talking about MVP. And Lebron is more valuable to the Cavs than Howard is to the Magic. Which is saying a lot because Howard is way valuable to the Magic. Howard is probably the clear cut number 2 in the MVP race. And if the Magic keep it up and Howard keeps playing this way, and Lebron continues to not play games, then the waters could get murky in that respect. But Lebron's only missed a game and a half, and somehow he went from clear cut MVP on monday, to not even being in the arguement against Howard on Saturday.


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## Chad (Jul 3, 2004)

Duck34234 said:


> I could have sworn Jordan, Chamberlain and Oscar Robertson played on teams that played .500+ ball.
> 
> And please don't give me that **** about it being early in the year and the Cavs are going to win like 20 games in a row when 'Bron gets healthy and the Magic are going to magically suck. Also, before you do, I don't care that the Cavs are reigning Eastern Conference champs. You're talking about this year, so let's talk about this year.


lol...The cavs, as has already been stated, are .500+


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## Pimped Out (May 4, 2005)

arhie said:


> Pimped out it would have better if you showed Mike when he got 30 8 8 instead.
> http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CHI/1989.html
> Now those wins and losses are prolly going to be somehwat like the Cavs.


Might as well throw in a few of oscars seasons too
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CIN/1961.html 30.5/10.1/9.7 on a sub .500 team
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CIN/1962.html 30.8/12.4/11.5 on a 43-37 team
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CIN/1962.html 30.5/6.2/10.7 on a sub .500 team


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

I really love Howard,but when you start trying to compare him to Lebron you're on very shaky ground.And by the way neither of them is more valuable than Mr Tim Duncan.The fact that his team is coasting to the best record in the league notwithstandign.


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Diable said:


> I really love Howard,but when you start trying to compare him to Lebron you're on very shaky ground.And by the way neither of them is more valuable than Mr Tim Duncan.The fact that his team is coasting to the best record in the league notwithstandign.


I think that was true up to last year, but watching the Cavs this year, it's clear nobody is more vital to his team's success than Lebron.


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## SamTheMan67 (Jan 4, 2004)

Lol this thread is funny how the **** oscar robertson averaged so much is beyond me


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## unluckyseventeen (Feb 5, 2006)

Wow, this is one of the worst comparisons I've ever seen.


Hey everyone, let's argue about numbers! That's all basketball is, right!?


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

Dwight Howard was more valueable to the Magic when they beat Lebron James Cavs this season. Hmm....


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## ChrisWoj (May 17, 2005)

I'm so used to the LeBron v. Wade debates that I thought somebody on crack was posting that "We are all D.Witnesses" and then I got really confused because people started talking about Dwight Howard. Man the end of this semester is really making me retarded.

... Well, more retarded anyway.


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## Piolo_Pascual (Sep 13, 2006)

Pimped Out said:


> Might as well throw in a few of oscars seasons too
> http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CIN/1961.html 30.5/10.1/9.7 on a sub .500 team
> http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CIN/1962.html 30.8/12.4/11.5 on a 43-37 team
> http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CIN/1962.html 30.5/6.2/10.7 on a sub .500 team


considering the nba only has 2 significant teams at that time. i would say that those some of records are pretty good.= in that era.


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## Pimped Out (May 4, 2005)

aznzen said:


> considering the nba only has 2 significant teams at that time. i would say that those some of records are pretty good.= in that era.


in 1961, 6 teams had a better record. 1 team had a worse record.

Also, i posted the wrong link in my post for the last season. it was suppose to be 1967


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## Piolo_Pascual (Sep 13, 2006)

Pimped Out said:


> Also, i posted the wrong link in my post for the last season. it was suppose to be 1967


well that was your error. i was like wth is he talking about? finsishing 2nd in the west is bad?


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

23AJ said:


> Dwight Howard was more valueable to the Magic when they beat Lebron James Cavs this season. Hmm....


Lebron outplayed him in that game, which could have gone either way.


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## Piolo_Pascual (Sep 13, 2006)

futuristxen said:


> Lebron outplayed him in that game, which could have gone either way.


yeah and whose team won the game?


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

Duck34234 said:


> I could have sworn Jordan, Chamberlain and Oscar Robertson played on teams that played .500+ ball.


So the Cavs made the finals with a losing record last year? They do have a winning record when he's healthy this year. But without him the Celtics were able to (largely) give Garnett and Pierce the day off and still win handily.


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## Like A Breath (Jun 16, 2003)

aznzen said:


> yeah and whose team won the game?


Are you really going to compare the greatness of two players based off of one game that was decided by a few points? Really? Are you?


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

I would say LeBron if I thought the Cavs would win 50-55 games, but I have my doubts they will. Plus I think LeBron will come down to earth just enough to justify giving KG the MVP. Dirk has a very good shot as usual, as does Nash, but both don't have the "newness" factor that KG has with the Celtics. Same logic goes for Duncan, plus his play has "dropped" relatively speaking in recent seasons. 

Then there's Wade, who is out simply because of his team and nothing more (and he's injured), and Kobe for the same reason. 

So KG.


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

Oh, and then there's Dwight Howard....I dunno, Magic would have to be really good. And even then, I don't think he'd get it cause he's too "young", which is stupid reasoning but almost assuredly will be used when Dwight probably misses out on it. He is certainly putting up the numbers to be in the conversation.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

SamTheMan67 said:


> Lol this thread is funny how the **** oscar robertson averaged so much is beyond me


Pretty much the same way that James has, Oscar was simply too big (for his position) and too athletic for defenders to effectively take him on. It took the wear and tear of several NBA seasons and an injury to significantly slow him down. At his size (6'5" 210) he was as big as many forwards, so he was a nightmare for opposing guards.


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## Piolo_Pascual (Sep 13, 2006)

Like A Breath said:


> Are you really going to compare the greatness of two players based off of one game that was decided by a few points? Really? Are you?


no but making an assumption that one is better over the other based on ONE game where both players impacted their respected teams is equally a moot and academic point.


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

aznzen said:


> yeah and whose team won the game?


:nonono:


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

aznzen said:


> no but making an assumption that one is better over the other based on ONE game where both players impacted their respected teams is equally a moot and academic point.


Oh. That sounds kinda like the opposite of what you were trying to imply in your first post.


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## Piolo_Pascual (Sep 13, 2006)

Brandname said:


> Oh. That sounds kinda like the opposite of what you were trying to imply in your first post.


wow look the moderator who likes to bait.

surprise surprise.


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

aznzen said:


> wow look the moderator who likes to bait.
> 
> surprise surprise.


lol, what?


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## Greg Ostertag! (May 1, 2003)

Bump.










There are two kinds of NBA fans, those that acknowledge Dwight Howard as the greatest force in sports entertainment... and futuristxen.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

Greg Ostertag! said:


> Bump.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


:lol:


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## Hairy Midget (Nov 28, 2005)

Dwight with 18 points, 23 rebounds, 7 blocks in an OT win on a back to back against the Warriors who had won 6 in a row before this.

Magic now 11-2 on the road, playing more road games than any team in the NBA.


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## Idunkonyou (Feb 23, 2003)

Well like I said, if Howard continues to put up the numbers he has, he will win MVP if the Magic are #1 or #2 in the east at the end of the season. People can shout Lebron all they want, but they give out MVP awards based on stats *AND* team record. Howard would have both and arguably better than every one else in the league overall. It is still a long season, but boy do the Magic have a favorable schedule coming up in the next 5 games. Could very well be 21-4 before going to Texas.


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## NewAgeBaller (Jan 8, 2007)

Hairy Midget said:


> Magic now 11-2 on the road, playing more road games than any team in the NBA.


my god how many times hav u mentioned this..?


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## King Joseus (May 26, 2003)

Greg Ostertag! said:


> Bump.
> 
> 
> 
> ...












Ha. As for the topic at hand - Dwight's playing out of his mind.


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## Idunkonyou (Feb 23, 2003)

NewAgeBaller said:


> my god how many times hav u mentioned this..?


As many times as I want.

Magic are 11-2 on the road. Whoops! Said it again.


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## Pimped Out (May 4, 2005)

Which makes the magic a not quite as impressive 5-2 at home


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## Idunkonyou (Feb 23, 2003)

Pimped Out said:


> Which makes the magic a not quite as impressive 5-2 at home


I believe they will be just fine.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

Greg Ostertag! said:


> Bump.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


lolololololololololololololololololololololololo


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## TyGuy (Apr 19, 2003)

Hairy Midget said:


> Dwight with 18 points, 23 rebounds, 7 blocks in an OT win on a back to back against the Warriors who had won 6 in a row before this.
> 
> Magic now 11-2 on the road, playing more road games than any team in the NBA.


No mention of his almost first career triple double with the 9 turnovers


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## Idunkonyou (Feb 23, 2003)

TyGuy said:


> No mention of his almost first career triple double with the 9 turnovers


Yes he needed 3 blocks for that.  

He was 3 blocks and 1 turnover away from a quadruple double. Howard is so sneaky.


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## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

Idunkonyou said:


> As many times as I want.
> 
> Magic are 11-2 on the road. Whoops! Said it again.


Had they not played the Suns twice, they'd be 11-1 on the road and 5-1 at home.... pretty impressive.


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## Hairy Midget (Nov 28, 2005)

Not to mention they easily could have beat Phoenix on the road if they woulda called the foul when Marion hit Rashard's arm on the game tying three pointer.


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## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

Hairy Midget said:


> Not to mention they easily could have beat Phoenix on the road if they woulda called the foul when Marion hit Rashard's arm on the game tying three pointer.


LOL in what world is a 1pt victory after being down double digits an easy victory?!? Had Nash made his free throw, had marion made his free throw, had Bell made any shots in the second half.... blah blah blah. The way the world works is that you can only report the facts, the woulda coulda maybes of your world are only good for making you feel better.


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Saying something could have easily gone the other way is different from saying it would be an easy victory. 

As another example, the Cavs-Magic game could have easily been won by the Cavs if they had called the foul that Hedo put on Lebron in the closing moments instead of calling a jump ball.


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## Hairy Midget (Nov 28, 2005)

IceMan23and3 said:


> LOL in what world is a 1pt victory after being down double digits an easy victory?!? Had Nash made his free throw, had marion made his free throw, had Bell made any shots in the second half.... blah blah blah. The way the world works is that you can only report the facts, the woulda coulda maybes of your world are only good for making you feel better.


The players do what the players do, that doesn't matter. What matters is that Shard was fouled on the game tying shot - Marion even admitted to fouling right after it happened - but nothing was called.


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## Hairy Midget (Nov 28, 2005)

Brandname said:


> Saying something could have easily gone the other way is different from saying it would be an easy victory.
> 
> As another example, the Cavs-Magic game could have easily been won by the Cavs if they can called the foul that Hedo put on Lebron in the closing moments instead of calling a jump ball.


No, because that was a judgement call. It could have gone either way.

The Shard foul was just a black and white foul that wasn't called.


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Hairy Midget said:


> No, because that was a judgement call. It could have gone either way.
> 
> The Shard foul was just a black and white foul that wasn't called.


I don't particularly want to go into whether it was a foul or not because the game is over.

My point is that those calls tend to balance out over the course of the season. If both calls go the Magic's way, they could be 17-3 right now. If both calls go against the Magic, they could be 15-5. 

As is happened one went in favor of the Magic and the other went against the Magic. They ended up balancing out.


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## Idunkonyou (Feb 23, 2003)

Just stop complaining about the foul that didn't happen in the Suns game. It is over and done. That was a game the Magic should have won, but pretty much lost in the 1st quarter because of their bad play. If they would have started the game against the Suns great or just simply kept up with them, they would have won easily. Instead it came down to calls that the Magic shouldn't have needed to begin with and of course didn't get.


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## Ras (Jul 25, 2005)

What I find funny is that mostly all of the posters that are trying to diminish what LeBron is doing are Magic/Dwight Howard fans.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

Ras said:


> What I find funny is that mostly all of the posters that are trying to diminish what LeBron is doing are Magic/Dwight Howard fans.


What? Who diminishing what Bron is doing.......? If anything it's the Bron fans trying to diminish Dwight. The only thing that was brought into question about LBJ was his teams record........

Regardless..........The fact is, comparing what Bron is doing to what Dwight is doing is comparing apples to oranges. It just can't be done. They play completely different positions and serve different roles for there team. The only thing comparable with what the two are doing is the fact that they're both dominating their roles like legends who preceded them. Dwight is putting up Shaq esque numbers and Bron is putting up Oscar/MJ type numbers. We can argue in circles about who has a bigger impact on their team but at the end of the day only thing to go by is their record and thats were D12 seperates himself. hate on it


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## Ras (Jul 25, 2005)

Power_Ballin said:


> What? Who diminishing what Bron is doing.......? If anything it's the Bron fans trying to diminish Dwight. The only thing that was brought into question about LBJ was his teams record........


I was mainly talking about Hairy Midget and Duck34234 on the first page. Hairy Midget didn't seem to care to acknowledge that LeBron was on a hell of a tear before he got injured. Duck, on the other hand, somewhat diminished what LeBron is doing by implying that LeBron isn't helping his team win so much, or at least that's what I gathered. He claimed that Oscar and the rest always played on .500+ teams (which wasn't true) and that LeBron doesn't (which also isn't true), but it seemed to be in an effort to knock down what James is doing.



> Regardless..........The fact is, comparing what Bron is doing to what Dwight is doing is comparing apples to oranges. It just can't be done. They play completely different positions and serve different roles for there team. The only thing comparable with what the two are doing is the fact that they're both dominating their roles like legends who preceded them. Dwight is putting up Shaq esque numbers and Bron is putting up Oscar/MJ type numbers. *We can argue in circles about who has a bigger impact on their team but at the end of the day only thing to go by is their record and thats were D12 seperates himself. hate on it*


You mean that's where the Magic separate themselves. It's not as if it's Dwight and no one else, and because it's not, there's no reasonable way you can use that as leverage against LeBron. I also find it a tad funny that you're from Orlando, considering what you quoted me saying, and with how you replied.


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## Hairy Midget (Nov 28, 2005)

Oh no, I do think what Lebron is doing is amazing. Those are absurd numbers he's putting up. Only problem is that I think people underrate his supporting cast. Gooden and Z can rebound like crazy, and Z is a pretty good defender usually. Any team with a totally dominant wing and two good rebounding/defending big men is going to go far as long as the wing can pass like a PG.

It's just that whereas they both are amazing offensively - albeit in different ways - Dwight has carried a team of Hedo and Rashard manning the 4 and 3 spots and 5'10'' Jameer Nelson at the point to the second best defensive team in the NBA.


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## Tragedy (Dec 9, 2002)

I hate when people downplay their favorite team's players to pump someone up. Hedo and Rashard have been more consistent than Ilgauskas and Drew Gooden, who has probably the lowest bball IQ in the whole nba.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Hairy Midget said:


> Oh no, I do think what Lebron is doing is amazing. Those are absurd numbers he's putting up. Only problem is that I think people underrate his supporting cast. Gooden and Z can rebound like crazy, and Z is a pretty good defender usually. Any team with a totally dominant wing and two good rebounding/defending big men is going to go far as long as the wing can pass like a PG.


Looking at them without Lebron for the last handful of games it looks like people OVERRATE his supporting cast. Blown out by the Pistons, Celtics, Raptors and Nets. They went from beating the Celtics in overtime last week. To without Lebron getting toasted by the Nets.

I think if the Magic without Howard played the Cavs without Lebron, the Magic would win by 15.


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## Like A Breath (Jun 16, 2003)

Hairy Midget said:


> Oh no, I do think what Lebron is doing is amazing. Those are absurd numbers he's putting up. Only problem is that I think people underrate his supporting cast. Gooden and Z can rebound like crazy, and Z is a pretty good defender usually. Any team with a totally dominant wing and two good rebounding/defending big men is going to go far as long as the wing can pass like a PG.
> 
> It's just that whereas they both are amazing offensively - albeit in different ways - Dwight has carried a team of Hedo and Rashard manning the 4 and 3 spots and 5'10'' Jameer Nelson at the point to the second best defensive team in the NBA.


The Cavs have been blown out in every game since LeBron has been out. Z and Gooden are decent role players, but not even close to being supporting semi-stars, let alone all-stars.


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## Hairy Midget (Nov 28, 2005)

Like A Breath said:


> The Cavs have been blown out in every game since LeBron has been out. Z and Gooden are decent role players, but not even close to being supporting semi-stars, let alone all-stars.



Same thing would happen if Dwight missed games.

If most teams lose their best player they're going to get blown out. Both Lebron and Howard have shown so far that you don't need all stars around you if you're dominant enough at your position to make them better. Hedo and Rashard are basically spot up shooters on the Magic, but because of all the space Dwight creates for them, they go off, along with the other role players.

When Lebron plays, all Z and Gooden have to do is rebound and play defense while Lebron creates for them by pick and rolls and driving through the lane. Trying to make role players the focal point of an offense is suicide, but that's what happens when the stars get injured. Injury in no way shows a player's value to a team if they're already being discussed for MVP considerations. Anyone with half a brain knows that a team missing an MVP type of player is not going to do well.


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## NewAgeBaller (Jan 8, 2007)

Hairy Midget said:


> It's just that whereas they both are amazing offensively - albeit in different ways - Dwight has carried a team of Hedo and Rashard manning the 4 and 3 spots and 5'10'' Jameer Nelson at the point to the second best defensive team in the NBA.


and yet if we were to question the magic's defensive players, they suddenly get 10x better..
nelson is still short but suddenly becomes a tough and strong defender. quick on his feet.
hedo is an above average defender, and rashard is very long and can alter shots with his reach on the perimeter..

but regardless, lebron with the magic unit (minus dwight) as his team would be a lot stronger than lebron with the cavs unit as his team, and i dont kno how u can talk about dwight fixing the magic's weaknesses wen lebron does the same if not more for the cavs.


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## WhoDaBest23 (Apr 16, 2003)

I don't think you can argue the importance of LeBron against Howard's. Dwight is looking like the reincarnation of Orlando Shaq, but when you talk about LeBron and how he's playing right now, you can't compare. Same said about the supporting casts. It's just pretty amazing to see what LeBron has to work with and the load that he carries.


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## Hairy Midget (Nov 28, 2005)

NewAgeBaller said:


> and yet if we were to question the magic's defensive players, they suddenly get 10x better..
> nelson is still short but suddenly becomes a tough and strong defender. quick on his feet.
> hedo is an above average defender, and rashard is very long and can alter shots with his reach on the perimeter..
> 
> but regardless, lebron with the magic unit (minus dwight) as his team would be a lot stronger than lebron with the cavs unit as his team, and i dont kno how u can talk about dwight fixing the magic's weaknesses wen lebron does the same if not more for the cavs.


Nelson has never been a bad defender, but he's never been that good at all either. Hedo is an average defender, and Rashard is about average as well. The whole thing is brought together by the fact that they can play aggressive defense up on their men because if they get run by, Dwight is behind them to play help defense.

I think the Magic squad without Dwight would be beaten by the Cavs squad without Lebron. Mainly because the Magic squad without Dwight has no playmakers except for occasionally Hedo and Jameer. They'd be forced to make contested shot after contested shot. The same thing would happen to the Cavs squad except they'd be way better at defense and rebounding.

It pretty much comes down to Lebron covering up all of the Cav's offensive weaknesses and Dwight covering up all of the Magic's defensive weaknesses.


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## NewAgeBaller (Jan 8, 2007)

Hairy Midget said:


> It pretty much comes down to Lebron covering up all of the Cav's offensive weaknesses and Dwight covering up all of the Magic's defensive weaknesses.


agreed, xcept i still rekon the dwight-less magic are a better team than the lebron-less cavs, and would beat them in a game.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

Ras said:


> I was mainly talking about Hairy Midget and Duck34234 on the first page. Hairy Midget didn't seem to care to acknowledge that LeBron was on a hell of a tear before he got injured. Duck, on the other hand, somewhat diminished what LeBron is doing by implying that LeBron isn't helping his team win so much, or at least that's what I gathered. He claimed that Oscar and the rest always played on .500+ teams (which wasn't true) and that LeBron doesn't (which also isn't true), but it seemed to be in an effort to knock down what James is doing.


Didn't acknowledge LeBron....are u kidding me? Everybody already knows what he brings to the table. We pretty much see him on commercials and on sportscenter everyday and we know what he's all about. I dont think anybody really questions his talent or skill level. You need to get your facts straight tho......what started all this talk from the get go was when futurisxen, or whatever their name is, starting inflating all of LBJ's stats. I respect 'Bron, I just look at this situation more as u guys inflating Brons stats then others actually trying to diminish what he ACTUALLY does do. 



Ras said:


> You mean that's where the Magic separate themselves. It's not as if it's Dwight and no one else, and because it's not, there's no reasonable way you can use that as leverage against LeBron. I also find it a tad funny that you're from Orlando, considering what you quoted me saying, and with how you replied.


You know, just because you posts a bunch fake, hypothetical, and severely over representative stats that have no basis what so ever, and people call it out, does not mean that people are knocking LeBron, it just means that they're keeping it real. They give him his due props but we could just as easily take a select amount of D12's games and inflate his stats too. Many people will also agree that kobe is the better overall player then nash, but nash still won two mvp's in a row over him, even the year when kobe put up 81 and was arguably the most skilled "all-around" player in the league. It is the overall record that set the two apart and what gave steve the edge. basically, Nash led his team to "win" more games playing his role. 

If you haven't been living under a rock you would probably understand that concept......That's what im talking about when i say Dwight sets himself apart from Bron here. They are both the Superstars on their teams, so all of the glory goes to them as well as all of the blame. Sure there are others on their team, but when the Cavs made the finals it was pretty much all about 'Bron......so when they struggle people will also put that on the stars shoulders too. 

And no i actually find it funny that you accuse others of trying to diminish LBJ but refuse to look at how you and xen severely inflated his stats to begin with. You guys just need to learn how to keep it real.


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Power_Ballin said:


> Didn't acknowledge LeBron....are u kidding me? Everybody already knows what he brings to the table. We pretty much see him on commercials and on sportscenter everyday and we know what he's all about. I dont think anybody really questions his talent or skill level. You need to get your facts straight tho......what started all this talk from the get go was when futurisxen, or whatever their name is, starting inflating all of LBJ's stats. I respect 'Bron, I just look at this situation more as u guys inflating Brons stats then others actually trying to diminish what he ACTUALLY does do.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


But the reason they're getting blown out by 20 every game is because Lebron *isn't* playing. How can you blame him for that?


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## JPSeraph (Dec 17, 2005)

How did this turn into Dwight vs. LeBron? Dwight's played 20 games at "rookie Shaq" level; give him some time to mature and prove all his detractors wrong. Until then, LeBron (who was putting up something like 33/8/9 before the injury game) easily wins this argument. Neither one of their teams would be any good without them of course.


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## JT3000 (Nov 3, 2004)

NewAgeBaller said:


> agreed, xcept i still rekon the dwight-less magic are a better team than the lebron-less cavs, and would beat them in a game.


Because everyone knows Adonal Foyle would make for a great one-man center rotation. Ilgauzguzyezuguae would eat his *** for breakfast.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

Brandname said:


> But the reason they're getting blown out by 20 every game is because Lebron *isn't* playing. How can you blame him for that?


Before he got hurt tho they were still 9-7 as opposed to the magic who were 14-3....


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Power_Ballin said:


> Before he got hurt tho they were still 9-7 as opposed to the magic who were 14-3....


9-6 actually.

But have you watched this team SINCE he got injured? They are seriously an NBDL team.

They are getting blown out by 20 *in the first half* against an *Arenas-less Wizards* team. It's frankly a miracle that he dragged this team to 4 wins, let alone 9.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

yeah lol i dont even think they're trying at this point. I thought i read LeBron was coming back tonight but i guess not. lol I admit tho they do look horrendous without LBJ.


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## KDOS (Nov 29, 2005)

Brandname said:


> 9-6 actually.
> 
> But have you watched this team SINCE he got injured? They are seriously an NBDL team.
> 
> They are getting blown out by 20 *in the first half* against an *Arenas-less Wizards* team. It's frankly a miracle that he dragged this team to 4 wins, let alone 9.


Arenas-less Wizards are not as bad as people make it out to be.


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## Jizzy (Aug 24, 2005)

D12 is playing like a ****in beast, literally.


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

KOBEDUNKEDONSHAQ said:


> Arenas-less Wizards are not as bad as people make it out to be.


They're not bad, but they shouldn't be absolutely toying with us like we're their little brothers.


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## KDOS (Nov 29, 2005)

Brandname said:


> They're not bad, but they shouldn't be absolutely toying with us like we're their little brothers.


Haha, thats so true. 


I hope he comes back ASAP.


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