# Is Greg Oden a bust yet?



## gi0rdun (May 31, 2007)

He's been getting minutes but his minutes are limited to his fouls. Can we call bust yet?


----------



## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

No.


----------



## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

Standard waiting period is 9 years.


----------



## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

feel free to call him whatever you want. but expect to look dumb in the near future.


----------



## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

No.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

No. No one can say hes living up to his potential at the moment though either.


----------



## ucatchtrout (Feb 11, 2004)

R-Star said:


> No. No one can say hes living up to his potential at the moment though either.


I can. 

I will.

He is living up to his potential.

He is doing about what I expected. Inexperienced youngster coming off a year away from basketball due to a serious injury that some players never recover from. Plus, you have to remember that during Amare Stoudamires first season back from microfracture some were questioning if he would ever be the same player, and that it took a whole nother year for him to get all of his lift and explosiveness back.

Youth
Inexperience
Major injury
assorted injuries throughout the season
a year away from basketball
adjusting to the pro game
big men often take longer to develop in the pros

Factor all those things together and you come up with what we have in Greg Oden.
Given time he will be a good player for this team.

Those expecting him to be an overnight success were not looking at the reality of the situation.


----------



## Knick Killer (Jul 16, 2006)

ucatchtrout said:


> I can.
> 
> I will.
> 
> ...


Great post. He has definitely been a little disappointing so far but I wouldn't count him out yet.


----------



## BlakeJesus (Feb 1, 2006)

Absolutely not.


----------



## ucatchtrout (Feb 11, 2004)

gi0rdun said:


> He's been getting minutes but his minutes are limited to his fouls. Can we call bust yet?


No. Of course not. You think Shaq never had trouble with fouls early in his career?

You are distracted by the foul thing and Gregs injury problems, or you are intentionally trying to be negative.

Look at the facts.

Quote is from another post....facts com from BBR....



> His fouls are still a problem, but his PER is very good for a rookie at 17.8 (average player is roughly 15, though it's obviously a limited rating).
> 
> Oden's offensive rating is very, very good for a big man and especially a rookie. A rating of 115 is actually better than Olajuwon or Ewing ever managed. This was partially due to their usage rate being so high, but Oden's usage rate is pretty fair. If Oden can sustain his ORTG of 115 or greater with a usage in the low-mid 20's, he'll be quite an offensive force.
> 
> His rebounding is still out of this world. His offensive rebounding percent is the best in the league and I fully expect Oden and Dwight Howard to be the top two rebounders in the league for quite some time. Oden's exceptional offensive rebounding with Roy at the helm will allow us continue to elite when it comes to offensive efficiency.


If you look at BBR you will see that he is averaging less than four fouls per game.

To average six fouls per game he would have had to average more than thirty minutes per game.

If you prorate his stats to over thirty minutes per game he would be averaging a double double. Better than most players and better than most centers in the league.

He is just getting started and we have only seen a glimpse of his potential. If all he ever is, is what he is now, he will still have a successful NBA career.

WIth all he has had to contend with he is still averaging more minutes and has better stats than LaMarcus Aldridge did in his rookie season. Look at how his game has improved...especially over the last month. Its more likely than not we will see the same type of improvement in Gregs game as he gains more experience.

Did you see him play tonight?

12 points 8 rebounds and 2 blocks in 11 minutes

and no....he didn't foul out. He had 4 fouls. 

There is potential there. He changes the game when he plays. If you are paying attention, you'll see that teams do not challenge the middle when Greg is in there the way they do when even Joel plays. And its because they know Greg will challenge virtually every shot.

If you want to talk about players not living up to their potential, maybe we should be talking about Andrew Bynum. Not only does he have a history of injuries.....instead of working on rehabbing his knee or traveling with his team who lost tonight....he is partying at the playboy mansion, dancing, jumping over ropes and carrying playmates around on his shoulders and posing for pictures. Sheesh, if he can do all that, you'd think he ought to be able to play ball.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

ucatchtrout said:


> I can.
> 
> I will.
> 
> ...


Hey, you're ucatchtrout aren't you? Nice to meet you. Oh.... wait, I saw you posting in the Blazers forum back in the day didn't I? Oh. Uh oh. So that means if I wanted to, I could go back through your post history and see you hyping up Greg like he was the second coming like all other Blazers fans did?

So no. Sorry. You didn't think Greg would be an injury prone backup. Try again.


----------



## ucatchtrout (Feb 11, 2004)

R-Star said:


> Hey, you're ucatchtrout aren't you? Nice to meet you. Oh.... wait, I saw you posting in the Blazers forum back in the day didn't I? Oh. Uh oh. So that means if I wanted to, I could go back through your post history and see you hyping up Greg like he was the second coming like all other Blazers fans did?
> 
> So no. Sorry. You didn't think Greg would be an injury prone backup. Try again.


No need to be an *no masked cursing*.

First of all you can read any of my posts and you will never see me hyping up Greg like he was the second coming. 

Secondly, calling Greg an injury prone backup is shortsighted at best, at worst.....ignorant.

He had microfracture. He recovered and is now playing.

All big men have injuries and miss games. Its a fact. And its also a fact that Greg will likely be the starter next season.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

ucatchtrout said:


> No need to be an *no masked cursing*.
> 
> First of all you can read any of my posts and you will never see me hyping up Greg like he was the second coming.
> 
> ...


So you never once talked up Greg Oden like he would be a top 10 center his first year in previous posts?


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Thanks for the laugh youcatchtrout.

Guess you shouldn't come in here acting like this is what you expected out of GO. Its an internet forum, your old posts don't vanish once your star young player doesn't perform to overhyped expectations.
If they did, I could act like I never said Jon Bender was the next KG.


----------



## ucatchtrout (Feb 11, 2004)

Greg already is a top ten player in blocks

Dwight Howard	Orl	2.96 
Chris Andersen	Den	2.30 
Marcus Camby	LAC	2.17
Ronny Turiaf	GS	2.13 
Jermaine O'Neal Mia  2.06
Greg Oden PDX 1.98

You can't show me any post I made where I "hyped him like he was the second coming"....because there aren't any.


----------



## ucatchtrout (Feb 11, 2004)

R-Star said:


> Thanks for the laugh youcatchtrout.
> 
> Guess you shouldn't come in here acting like this is what you expected out of GO. Its an internet forum, your old posts don't vanish once your star young player doesn't perform to overhyped expectations.
> If they did, I could act like I never said Jon Bender was the next KG.


Show me where I did this.

You can't.

Because I didn't.

Nice try on the baiting though. No wonder Blazer fans don't post here anymore with *no personal attacks* posting in here.

And don't try to tell me what to post, or how to post. You aren't a moderator. *No personal attacks.*


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

ucatchtrout said:


> Show me where I did this.
> 
> You can't.
> 
> ...


You honestly are going to sit here and tell me you never said Greg Oden was going to be better than hes playing now? Honestly? You know damn well you did. You may not have said he was the next Shaq (many did though), but you didnt say "I fully expect him to get injured a few more times, and play backup to Joel."

And the Blazers fans left because they thought they were bigger than the board. Thats what I always loved about you guys though "No wonder Blazers fans don't post here anymore with jerks like you posting in here" you *no personal attacks* always thought you were somehow more important than the rest of us. Newsflash *no personal attacks*, we're still here, you guys aren't. We're still at one of the biggest basketball forums on the internet, you guys are off in obscurity.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

ucatchtrout said:


> Greg already is a top ten player in blocks
> 
> Dwight Howard	Orl	2.96
> Chris Andersen	Den	2.30
> ...


I can find one where you acted like he was a top 10 center. Top 10 in blocks isnt a top 10 center.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

ucatchtrout said:


> If you are the Sonics you make the trade.
> 
> Jury is out on how good Durant really is.
> 
> ...


Well, that was in your first 15 or so posts I searched. Sure as hell doesn't sound like you thought he'd be an injury prone backup to me. 

Thanks for coming out champ.


----------



## gi0rdun (May 31, 2007)

ucatchtrout said:


> Greg already is a top ten player in blocks
> 
> Dwight Howard	Orl	2.96
> Chris Andersen	Den	2.30
> ...


Greg Oden averages 1.1 blocks a game and no you're not allowed to per 36 minute that or whatever. Greg Oden could be playing around 30 minutes a game but if you look at his game log most of the games where he's playing minutes around the 10 minute mark he's having 4-6 fouls in those games. Greg Oden was hyped to be the next great big man. Shaq averaged like 23-14 and 3.5 blocks in his rookie year. If Greg Oden had as much hype as Andrew Bogut he would be a solid big man but this guy had crazy hype and he is not living up to his potential.


----------



## ucatchtrout (Feb 11, 2004)

What is it you are trying to do here?

Bait?

Flame?

Be as hostile and nasty and sarcastic and rude as possible?

That is how it appears. Greg is not an injury prone backup, nor is he destined to be one.


----------



## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

Let's not resort to personal attacks. Thanks. Carry on.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

ucatchtrout said:


> I can.
> 
> I will.
> 
> ...


Sorry. But that post and your last post I quoted don't really seem to coincide that well. One says hes a once every 10 years center who will win you a championship, the other says you fully expected him to be a backup at this point in time. 

All I'm saying is, don't come back and act like you had a fully different opinion. You didn't.

I don't think Oden is a bust at this point in time. But is he living up to his hype that you and others gave him? No. Not even close. Neither you, or any other Oden advocate penciled him in as a backup at this point in time in his career.

Flame? Bait? No. Fact.


----------



## ucatchtrout (Feb 11, 2004)

Greg Oden is going to be a very good NBA player. Maybe the kind who comes along once every ten years type player, was the projection scouts, pundits, and our team had when he was selected with the number one pick. 

He is still that person.

He is still that player.

We've seen nothing to indicate that assessment was incorrect.

He has not been the overnight success many had hoped he would be but there have been a lot of obstacles to that success, a number of which I listed. Given the difficulties he has encountered, the type of season he has had should not be surprising, nor should it be seen as an indication that he will be injury prone and a backup his entire career. Have a little patience for heavens sake. Rome wasn't built in a day.

Flame, bait....yes.

Is the Blazer forum here a place for civil and thoughtful discussion of Portland Trailblazer basketball? 

Apparently not.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

ucatchtrout said:


> Greg Oden is going to be a very good NBA player. Maybe the kind who comes along once every ten years type player, was the projection scouts, pundits, and our team had when he was selected with the number one pick.
> 
> He is still that person.
> 
> ...


I already won this debate. There were 8 pages left of Oden and 9-11 posts for me to look through, so lets not act like you did't hyped Oden up to be more than he is right now.
Could he turn out to be a superstar in the future? Sure he could. From your old posts were you expecting his current play? Not a chance in hell.

Try to throw out words like flame, bait and whatever to try to backstep, or hell, even cry about the old Blazers forum (Im glad its gone), but its not going to change facts. Your opinion in the past did not paint Oden to be a injury prone backup like he is now.


----------



## ucatchtrout (Feb 11, 2004)

Either you didn't read my last post, you ARE deliberately flaming, or you have trouble with reading and comprehension.


*

Is the Blazer forum here a place for civil and thoughtful discussion of Portland Trailblazer basketball?

Apparently not.*








.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

ucatchtrout said:


> Either you didn't read my last post, or you have trouble with comprehension.
> 
> Flame, bait....yes.
> 
> ...


And as I said, terrible attempt at a sidestep. You said you fully expected his current play, I showed previous posts of you saying hes a once every 10 year championship bringing center. Then you tried to sidestep with a feeble post. 

Its pretty simple. You've lost.

Continue your Oden discussion, but quit acting like you expected this from Oden. You didn't, I called you out on it. Not a big deal, as long as you deal with it and quit trying to fumble your way through some sort of excuse to your previous posts.


----------



## ucatchtrout (Feb 11, 2004)

R-Star said:


> And as I said, terrible attempt at a sidestep. You said you fully expected his current play, I showed previous posts of you saying hes a once every 10 year championship bringing center. Then you tried to sidestep with a feeble post.
> 
> Its pretty simple. You've lost.
> 
> Continue your Oden discussion, but quit acting like you expected this from Oden. You didn't, I called you out on it. Not a big deal, as long as you deal with it and quit trying to fumble your way through some sort of excuse to your previous posts.



Either you didn't read my last post, you ARE deliberately flaming, or you have trouble with reading and comprehension.


*

Is the Blazer forum here a place for civil and thoughtful discussion of Portland Trailblazer basketball?

Apparently not.*




,


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

ucatchtrout said:


> Either you didn't read my last post, you ARE deliberately flaming, or you have trouble with reading and comprehension.
> 
> 
> *
> ...


:lol:


----------



## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

Way to keep things civilized, fellas.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Basel said:


> Way to keep things civilized, fellas.


I am being civilized. I don't think Oden is a bust. But for a guy to come in here and say "I fully expected this kind of play out of him" when in the past he hyped him up as a savior is ridiculous. What is more ridiculous is getting mad, refusing to admit it (even after proof) and then just sitting there and repeating yourself with copy and pasted posts.

I'd like the discussion to continue. Oden is not a bust as of yet, its way too early to say. I think he has not even come close to the hype, but its way to early to call him a bust. Hell, people last year were saying it was too soon to call Darko a bust, and Oden is a hell of a lot better than Darko.


----------



## ucatchtrout (Feb 11, 2004)

R-Star said:


> I'd like the discussion to continue.


Then you will be having it with yourself.

And you will be having it with yourself because you have an agenda, because you have been less than civil, and you haven't paid attention to what I have had to say to you. Bring those ingrediants to the table and you have no discussion.

Adios, and good luck to you in the future.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

ucatchtrout said:


> Then you will be having it with yourself.
> 
> And you will be having it with yourself because you have an agenda, because you have been less than civil, and you haven't paid attention to what I have had to say to you. Bring those ingrediants to the table and you have no discussion.
> 
> Adios, and good luck to you in the future.


Please explain to me your points you were trying to get across to me then.

If not, good luck to you as well.


----------



## Najee (Apr 5, 2007)

ucatchtrout said:


> Greg already is a top ten player in blocks
> 
> Dwight Howard	Orl	2.96
> Chris Andersen	Den	2.30
> ...


Greg Oden finished 41st in the league in blocked shots per game and 46th in total blocks. You purposely are misrepresenting a statistic, using a projection with the air that is the actual statistical number of what Oden did.

Evidently, this is the sort of desperate reaching some of Oden's overzealous fans do to rationalize an obviously disappointing rookie season.


----------



## mgb (Jun 26, 2004)

Najee said:


> Greg Oden finished 41st in the league in blocked shots per game and 46th in total blocks. You purposely are misrepresenting a statistic, using a projection with the air that is the actual statistical number of what Oden did.
> 
> Evidently, this is the sort of desperate reaching some of Oden's overzealous fans do to rationalize an obviously disappointing rookie season.


He probably meant per 48 mins, which doesn't mean a player would get that of course, but for you not to acknowledge the amount of mins he played is kind of going to the opposite extreme unless you were quoting per 48 too.

At any rate, both are misleading. Time will tell and I for one is quite comfortable with that.


----------



## Mr. Hobbes (Jul 1, 2005)

Player A: 

PPG 8.9
RPG	7.0
APG	0.5
SPG	0.4
BPG	1.1
FG%	0.564
FT%	0.637
3P%	0.000
MPG	21.5

Player B:

PPG 5.7
RPG	7.1
APG	1.0
SPG	0.3
BPG	1.2
FG%	0.650
FT%	0.638
3P%	0.000
MPG	23.0

Player C:

PPG 11.9
RPG	7.4
APG	1.7
SPG	0.8
BPG	1.1
FG%	0.530
FT%	0.733
3P%	0.000
MPG	30.7

Match these players to their stat lines: Greg Oden, Erick Dampier, Marc Gasol. Who's more effective?


----------



## It's_GO_Time (Oct 13, 2005)

"The Bust" . . . I could live with that. The way he busted up Chris Anderson's nose in that last game with a backhand slap . . . bird man had to have tissue shoved up his nostril just to stop the blood from flowing onto the court.

Keep busting em up big guy . . . team improved by 13 games in your first year . . . can't wait for the second year "bust"


----------



## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

What about Rudy and Batum? I mean, even Rudy played a bigger role in that win than GO did last night. Try again.


----------



## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

Chan said:


> Match these players to their stat lines: Greg Oden, Erick Dampier, Marc Gasol. Who's more effective?


just look at the stat lines chan. that answer seems pretty obvious to me.


----------



## Mr. Hobbes (Jul 1, 2005)

Depends of your definition of obvious.


----------



## mgb (Jun 26, 2004)

Blue Magic said:


> What about Rudy and Batum? I mean, even Rudy played a bigger role in that win than GO did last night. Try again.


I certainly won't take anything from Rudy and Batum, but Oden deserves credit. When the Nuggets made a run in the second half to get within 5 Oden came in and didn't leave until it was a blow out again. Sure he got help, but he was a big part of it. 

Playoffs are going to be interesting! Can't wait!


----------



## mgb (Jun 26, 2004)

Btw, I posted my thoughts about Oden here:

http://www.basketballforum.com/5934976-post26.html

If anyone is interested. This was the thread I meant in the edit part.

GO BLAZERS!!


----------



## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

You can have Damp, I'll take Oden


----------



## It's_GO_Time (Oct 13, 2005)

Blue Magic said:


> What about Rudy and Batum? I mean, even Rudy played a bigger role in that win than GO did last night. Try again.


Try again on what? That GO busted up birdman's nose or that I look forward to seeing what the bust does in his second year.

Rudy played a huge role in that game against Denver. Rudy is the bomb . . . Oden is the bust em up . . . someone has to be the muscle for the Blazers . . . and it's not Rudy.

Try again?


----------



## Najee (Apr 5, 2007)

mgb said:


> He probably meant per 48 mins, which doesn't mean a player would get that of course, but for you not to acknowledge the amount of mins he played is kind of going to the opposite extreme unless you were quoting per 48 too.


It still doesn't change the fact that Greg Oden is out of the top 40 in blocked shots and blocked shots per game, so I'm failing to see how what I did was egregious. He doesn't get more than 24 minutes per game because he's not good enough to play more than that, which includes his constant foul problems.


----------



## ucatchtrout (Feb 11, 2004)

According to Hollinger, the Blazer playing the best in the playoffs is Brandon Roy at 29.93 PER, 8th best in the NBA. 

Greg Oden has been the second best Blazer at 29.23 PER, 9th best.

Not too far behind. Not too shabby.


----------



## mgb (Jun 26, 2004)

While Roy scored the most points in the first game, Oden was second being the only other Blazers in double figures. It took Roy 21 shots to score 23 points, but it only took Oden 7 to score 15. Oden was 6-7 from the field and 3-4 from the FT line. 

Now the second game I'll give to Roy.


----------

