# Magic traded Don Reid to Nugz



## magicfan630 (Jul 18, 2002)

for a future 2nd round draft pick.


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## BBallFan (Jul 13, 2002)

Nuggets also get a first-rounder (Clippers pick, with protection)


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## robyg1974 (Jul 19, 2002)

*Hold on...*

So you guys are saying that the Magic traded Don Reid, who makes very little money in the last year of his contract next season, and a future first-round pick for a second-round pick?

What?


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## BBallFan (Jul 13, 2002)

Yep.

http://www.nba.com/nuggets/news/Nuggets_Acquire_Reid_1st_Roun-50377-43.html


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## Devestata (May 29, 2002)

lol..Denver's frontcourt problem becomes even worse..


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## Quasi-Quasar (Jul 18, 2002)

*The Clipps 1st*

The Nugz orcestrated this so that they can ransom the Clipps pick when they negotiate for Jaric. Kiki Vanderweghe may have just had some good luck. With the Clipps pick I see a three way trade with Denver, the Clipps, and a third team that would look like this:
Nugz trade: 2003 1st, 1st from Orlando via L.A., Posey
Nugz receive: Jaric, future 2nd via L.A.
Clipps trade: Jaric, future 2nd
Clipps receive: 2003 1st from Denver,own 1st, and 2003 1st from 3rd team
Third team trades: 2003 1st
Third team receives: Posey
The likely suspect for the 3rd team is Washington, although they would have to add in a filler. And as for those who have not seen Jaric play and don't understand his value here is a link to the Italian League Final Four Championship, Jaric is #6 on Kinder 
http://il.telebasket.com/eng/video.asp?id=31630 . By the way for a point of reference of Jaric's NBA value, Kiki Vanderweghe said that to get Jaric he would give up their 2003 1st and their 2004 1st with a filler (and they can give up both since they also have Milwaukee's 2003 1st), Jerry West said Jaric would have been picked between #3 and #5 this year, and Jerry Krause said that he could have gone #1 last year becuase he was then considered a better prospect than Jay Williams (and still is but Jay is 3 years younger and that's where he gets his edge).


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## robyg1974 (Jul 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by *BBallFan *
> Yep.
> 
> http://www.nba.com/nuggets/news/Nuggets_Acquire_Reid_1st_Roun-50377-43.html


WHAT? Can someone please explain the rationale here? I suppose the Magic are trying to dump some payroll so they can sign Keon Clark and avoid the luxury tax, right? I can't imagine what ELSE this trade could mean.

In any event, this Clippers #1 pick MIGHT end up being a GREAT PICK. It's protected next year, the only way the Nuggets get that pick NEXT year is if the Clips are one of the eight best teams in the league, which MAY or MAY NOT HAPPEN. The Andre Miller trade makes the Clips a lot better ON PAPER--but team chemistry matters in the NBA, it'll take some time for these guys to get used to each other. Right now, I have the Clips as the #6 team in the West next year, behind The Big Four and Portland (I really like the job that Mo Cheeks is doing up there). Here are the top ten teams in the league next season, according to W-L record:

1 Kings
2 Spurs
3 Lakers
4 Mavs
5 Nets
6 Hornets
7 Blazers
8 Pistons
9 Clippers
10 76ers/Magic

SO, if THAT happens, the Nuggets WON'T get that pick NEXT year. The following season, it's protected 1-15--but will the Clips even make the playoffs in 2003-04? I mean, they're NOT going to be able to re-sign more than two of the following four dudes--Andre Miller, Elton Brand, Lamar Odom, Michael Olowokandi--to longterm extensions. If you only sign two of those guys, I don't know if that team is a playoff team or not. So let's say that the Clips screw it all up AGAIN, that they make the playoffs NEXT YEAR but THAT'S IT. The Clips don't make the playoffs in 2003-04, so the Nuggets don't get the pick in 2004, either. The pick is protected 1-14 in 2005--let's say the Clips miss the playoffs again. The pick is NOT protected in 2006--and you could be looking at one of the top 4-5 picks in the draft by then, as the Clips are the WORST organization in the NBA!

Kiki Vandeweghe must be one happy camper, huh?


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## robyg1974 (Jul 19, 2002)

*Dude...*



> Originally posted by *TheGoods *
> The Nugz orcestrated this so that they can ransom the Clipps pick when they negotiate for Jaric. Kiki Vanderweghe may have just had some good luck. With the Clipps pick I see a three way trade with Denver, the Clipps, and a third team that would look like this:
> Nugz trade: 2003 1st, 1st from Orlando via L.A., Posey
> Nugz receive: Jaric, future 2nd via L.A.
> ...


I gotta say, I have NO IDEA what you're talking about. And you sound like you DO know what you're talking about--I'm just not following your argument at ALL.

I don't understand the whole "ransom" argument. And that doesn't answer the question, "Why did the Magic trade a first-round pick for a second-round pick?" I believe the Magic made the trade because they want to shave a little payroll--$1.4 mil, that sure isn't a lot--in order to be able to sign Keon Clark to their full midcap exception and avoid the luxury tax. If they didn't shave a LITTLE payroll, they would've been hit with the luxury tax. Of course, they're shaving $1.4 mil here--I think that giving up what SHOULD be no worse than a #1 pick in the teens in 2004 (and what COULD be a top five pick in 2006) in order to save themselves no more than $2-$3 mil is pretty retarded!

Again, could you explain your "ransom" argument a little better? I have an awfully hard time believing that Marko Jaric would've been one of the top 3-5 picks in the 2002 draft, by the way. If Jaric is THAT good, I don't think the Clips would've just traded for Andre Miller, you know? Don't you think? AND, if Jaric is THAT good, well, why would the Clips trade him? Isn't he going to sign a totally reasonable contract with the Clips? Something like $2-$3 mil/year or something? If you can sign a guy who is Jay Williams' equal (as you say he is) to a cheap contract like that, well, why would you trade him? Why wouldn't you just keep him for yourself?

I'm totally interested in your argument, like I said, you seem to be onto something here, but it just doesn't make much sense to me.


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## Quasi-Quasar (Jul 18, 2002)

*Clipps pick*

Kiki is using the pick to barter, not to use since he already has Milwaukee's 2003 1st and has a core with the exception of PG and SG. So I see Jaric being aquired in the trade I posted above. That would give the Nugz this lineup:
SF/PF/C (they ar all combo F's) Hilario,Tskitishvilli, Anderson
PG Jaric
SG Savovic (although the Milwaukee pick could be used for Dwayne Wade or Carlos Delfino)

that would be pretty nice future lineup that I'd take over every rebuilding lineup in the WC (Clipps aren't rebuilding any more),
even the Warriors "talented" group doesn't top that.


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## BBallFan (Jul 13, 2002)

I'd be flatout shocked out of my seat if the Nuggets trade their number 1 pick next year.

It won't happen.


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## Quasi-Quasar (Jul 18, 2002)

I don't think Kiki was crap talking, I mean when he said he was somehow going to have Tskitishvilli and Hilario nobody took him seriously, now they should. Although I think that trade could use the Nugz 2004 1st instead of their 2003 1st, I think Kiki is already drooling over Milcic and wants an international empire with a lineup of
SF/PF/C (combos) Hilario,Tskitishvilli,Milicic
PG Jaric
SG Savovic or Carlos Delfino (Milwaukee 2003 1st)

that's more densely international than the Mavs and that would be a great lineup.


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## robyg1974 (Jul 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by *BBallFan *
> I'd be flatout shocked out of my seat if the Nuggets trade their number 1 pick next year.
> 
> It won't happen.


I agree.

The Goods--I think you're getting a little carried away with Marko Jaric here. Maybe the Nuggets trade the Clips their #1 pick back in return for Jaric. After all, the Clips have their PG (Miller) along with a backup (Dooling). Again, if Marko Jaric was the player that you're saying he is, the Clips wouldn't have made the Miles-Miller deal with Cleveland, you know?

The Nuggets' #1 next year is going to be NO WORSE than #5 overall. They're not going to trade that pick for Marko Jaric.

Anyway, way to go, Kiki--I'm still pretty baffled by the deal, not sure what the Magic are thinking here. Is "Magic" plural or singular? Is it "the Magic is" or "the Magic are"?


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## Quasi-Quasar (Jul 18, 2002)

*Jaric*

Jaric would have gone #3 probably, in this draft, and the reason LA got Dre is because Jaric is more a scoring PG and Dre is a distributer and the Clipps need Dre. Kiki on draft day while he was in Italy he said that if Jaric was in this draft he would have taken him at five if he was still there, and then he went on to say that he would trade the Clipps his 2003 1st and a future 1st for Jaric, so a Denver future 1st translates to a Clippers 1st (which will be like #20) and Wiz 1st (which should be about #10) so it seems fair enough, especially considering that at the moment aside from Lebron the 2003 Draft looks to be weak while the 2004 Draft is loaded (and I think Kiki would take Milcic over Lebron if he could get Delfino with the Milwaukee pick). You can say it's too much for Jaric but some trade will happen because Q,Maggette, and Dooling are Clippers fan favs and with Miles gone Baylor doesn't want to mess with ticket sales. Jaric, if on Denver, would start and probably be ROY over Ginobili with averages of 16 points, 4 rebounds, 6 assists, 1.5 steals, 2.8 to plus he has a competitive edge like GP that drives the team....also it gives baby Skita a familiar person to mature with. Imagine Nene,Skeeta,Jaric,Delfino,and Milicic in the same lineup...I think Kiki has that lineup in his head, but we'll see.


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## NugzFan (Jul 26, 2002)

> Originally posted by *devestata *
> lol..Denver's frontcourt problem becomes even worse..


please dont even try to put a negative spin on this...we got a FREE first rounder. 

thank you orlando.


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## NugzFan (Jul 26, 2002)

*Re: The Clipps 1st*



> Originally posted by *TheGoods *
> The Nugz orcestrated this so that they can ransom the Clipps pick when they negotiate for Jaric. Kiki Vanderweghe may have just had some good luck. With the Clipps pick I see a three way trade with Denver, the Clipps, and a third team that would look like this:
> Nugz trade: 2003 1st, 1st from Orlando via L.A., Posey
> Nugz receive: Jaric, future 2nd via L.A.
> ...


wrong - no way we trade our pick for jaric. they can have their pick back and thats it. dont be stupid.


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## NugzFan (Jul 26, 2002)

> Originally posted by *robyg1974 *
> 
> 
> WHAT? Can someone please explain the rationale here? I suppose the Magic are trying to dump some payroll so they can sign Keon Clark and avoid the luxury tax, right? I can't imagine what ELSE this trade could mean.
> ...


exactly! I HOPE the clips pick is top 21 next year so we dont get it. i want to wait and get a higher pick later.

does anyone know who has the choice on the pick- den or orl?

KIKI IS THE MAN!!! the anti-issel.


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## Quasi-Quasar (Jul 18, 2002)

Denver actually has a strong frontcourt, their backcourt sucks....again I stress that's why I think they are just ploying to get Jaric.


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## NugzFan (Jul 26, 2002)

> Originally posted by *BBallFan *
> I'd be flatout shocked out of my seat if the Nuggets trade their number 1 pick next year.
> 
> It won't happen.


100% correct.


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## NugzFan (Jul 26, 2002)

> Originally posted by *TheGoods *
> Denver actually has a strong frontcourt, their backcourt sucks....again I stress that's why I think they are just ploying to get Jaric.


i could see them going after jaric - a pg whos also european - but not for our 2003 pick. for the clips pick? sure. maybe even posey too.

but at least remember that our new rebuilding plan has been going on for what? 1/2 a season? no rush.

we will add to our backcourt inthe next year - draft picks and free agency.


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## NugzFan (Jul 26, 2002)

> Originally posted by *TheGoods *
> I don't think Kiki was crap talking, I mean when he said he was somehow going to have Tskitishvilli and Hilario nobody took him seriously, now they should. Although I think that trade could use the Nugz 2004 1st instead of their 2003 1st, I think Kiki is already drooling over Milcic and wants an international empire with a lineup of
> SF/PF/C (combos) Hilario,Tskitishvilli,Milicic
> PG Jaric
> ...


ok now i think your full of crap. you just listing every euro kid you can think of and saying kiki wants them. 

show me ONE quote please.


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## NugzFan (Jul 26, 2002)

*Re: Jaric*



> Originally posted by *TheGoods *
> Jaric would have gone #3 probably, in this draft, and the reason LA got Dre is because Jaric is more a scoring PG and Dre is a distributer and the Clipps need Dre. Kiki on draft day while he was in Italy he said that if Jaric was in this draft he would have taken him at five if he was still there, and then he went on to say that he would trade the Clipps his 2003 1st and a future 1st for Jaric, so a Denver future 1st translates to a Clippers 1st (which will be like #20) and Wiz 1st (which should be about #10) so it seems fair enough, especially considering that at the moment aside from Lebron the 2003 Draft looks to be weak while the 2004 Draft is loaded (and I think Kiki would take Milcic over Lebron if he could get Delfino with the Milwaukee pick). You can say it's too much for Jaric but some trade will happen because Q,Maggette, and Dooling are Clippers fan favs and with Miles gone Baylor doesn't want to mess with ticket sales. Jaric, if on Denver, would start and probably be ROY over Ginobili with averages of 16 points, 4 rebounds, 6 assists, 1.5 steals, 2.8 to plus he has a competitive edge like GP that drives the team....also it gives baby Skita a familiar person to mature with. Imagine Nene,Skeeta,Jaric,Delfino,and Milicic in the same lineup...I think Kiki has that lineup in his head, but we'll see.


try using paragraphs. 

no kiki would not pick milcic over james. this is incorrect.

ginobili? by any chance do you live in europe? or an insane assylum?


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## Quasi-Quasar (Jul 18, 2002)

, nope I don't live in Europe or an assylum, however if Jaric gets the minutes, Jaric and Ginobili should be neck to neck for the ROY. Also, this is directed mainly to Nugzfan, do you think Posey+the Clipps pick+a future 1st pick is too much for Jaric and a future 2nd? I'm sure that's do-able. Denver's 2003 1st wasn't essential to the trade, the point was a near-future 1st from Denver, it could be 2003,2004,2005,2006 or 2007 for all Kiki or anyone else cares....so what is your offer for Jaric and a future 2nd?


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## robyg1974 (Jul 19, 2002)

*The bottom line is...*

... the Nuggets just traded a second-round pick for Don Reid, who makes just $1.4 mil (barely above the veteran minimum) next year and then he's off the books FOREVER (i.e., the Nuggets' cap space for next offseason is UNAFFECTED), and a first-rounder.

Regardless of what they do with that first-rounder, that's a totally ridiculous trade. And, like I said, I think that it means that the Magic are going to sign Keon Clark. They made the trade to avoid the luxury tax?

But STILL! Let's say that the trade prevents the Magic from being hit with the luxury tax. The MOST amount of money that the team saves here is $2.8 mil (Don Reid's contract x 2). So the Magic has traded what COULD VERY WELL be a lottery pick in 2006 in order to save themselves $2.8 mil? Is the team having financial problems that we don't know about?

AGAIN, the bottom line is, great trade for Denver.


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## RD (Jun 10, 2002)

Marko Jaric can't be dealt until December so it's all moot.


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## Quasi-Quasar (Jul 18, 2002)

Yo RD, you sure? I thought only 1st picks can't be traded until December once they've been signed. In any case since them terms of the contract have not been released, I think Jaric is technically still not signed.....But I'm pretty sure 2nd picks don't have trade restrictions.


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## RD (Jun 10, 2002)

Jaric is definitely signed, and is official. Terms may not be disclosed, but it's official.

As for him not being able to be dealt until December - That is not a rookie stipulation. It's for anyone signed or drafted and then signed. You have I believe a timeframe of like 48-72 hours to deal them once signing them, but after that, you can't move them until December.


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## NugzFan (Jul 26, 2002)

> Originally posted by *TheGoods *
> Also, this is directed mainly to Nugzfan, do you think Posey+the Clipps pick+a future 1st pick is too much for Jaric and a future 2nd? I'm sure that's do-able. Denver's 2003 1st wasn't essential to the trade, the point was a near-future 1st from Denver, it could be 2003,2004,2005,2006 or 2007 for all Kiki or anyone else cares....so what is your offer for Jaric and a future 2nd?


it depends on what the 'future pick' is? is that our 2003 pick? thats insane. if they want 2007 - ok. 

i would give them posey and the clips pick back for jaric. thats it.


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## NugzFan (Jul 26, 2002)

*Re: The bottom line is...*



> Originally posted by *robyg1974 *
> ... the Nuggets just traded a second-round pick for Don Reid, who makes just $1.4 mil (barely above the veteran minimum) next year and then he's off the books FOREVER (i.e., the Nuggets' cap space for next offseason is UNAFFECTED), and a first-rounder.
> 
> Regardless of what they do with that first-rounder, that's a totally ridiculous trade. And, like I said, I think that it means that the Magic are going to sign Keon Clark. They made the trade to avoid the luxury tax?
> ...


nice.


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