# 1992 Dream Team vs. 2008 Olympic Team



## myst (Feb 22, 2006)

Dream Team Roster:
PG- John Stockton, Magic Johnson
SG- Michael Jordan, Clyde Drexler
SF- Larry Bird, Scottie Pippen, Chris Mullin
PF- Karl Malone, Charles Barkley, Christian Laettner
C- Patrick Ewing, David Robinson


2008 Olympic Team:
PG- Jason Kidd, Chris Paul, Deron Williams
SG- Dwyane Wade, Kobe Bryant, Michael Redd
SF- Lebron James, Carmelo Anthony, Tayshaun Prince
PF- Carlos Boozer, Chris Bosh
C- Dwight Howard

Which team is better?

PG- Edge to the Dream Team because those are two of the top 5 PG's of all time.
SG- Even though the dream team has Jordan I pick the 2008 team here.
SF- Just about even, maybe a slight edge to the 2008 team.
PF- Definitely the Dream Team, and by a wide margin
C- Howard is just as talented as Ewing or Robinson but Dream team takes the edge because of lack of depth

What do you guys think?


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## Wade County (Jun 22, 2003)

Wow, thats a tough call....but I would still take the 1992 team. Look at the depth at that roster, especially Power Forward...unbeatable (well, besides Laettner). 

Wade would be backin up Bryant also dude


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

Dream Team by double figures.. not a total blow out, but a solid win

-EDIT- imagine what Barkley and Malone would do to Boozer/Bosh, oh dear


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## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

Alls I gotta say in this thread is 

Jordan >>>>>>>>> Kobe


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## myst (Feb 22, 2006)

MB30 said:


> Wow, thats a tough call....but I would still take the 1992 team. Look at the depth at that roster, especially Power Forward...unbeatable (well, besides Laettner).
> 
> Wade would be backin up Bryant also dude


I know, and Stockton would probably be behind Magic, I didn't put it as a depth chart, just players by position.


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## magohaydz (Dec 21, 2005)

Dream Team easily. Hands down. Oh, and I dont think the SG is edged to 2008 at all. Do you know who Clyde is? Better than your boy Wade will ever be.


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## Pimped Out (May 4, 2005)

Dream Team is better at every position

edit: actually, i take that back. I'm not sure about SF because bird was on his last legs


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

would be one of those games that regardless of the score you always knew who was going to win, dream team would always be in control with the players they have IMO


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## OneBadLT123 (Oct 4, 2005)

Is this serious? Almost all of those players on the Dream Team are all time greats, and were first ballot lock HOF's. The only position that might have an advantage would be SF. But that is only because of Lebron. Even then though, Pippen/Mullin >>> Melo and Prince.


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## myst (Feb 22, 2006)

magohaydz said:


> Dream Team easily. Hands down. Oh, and I dont think the SG is edged to 2008 at all. Do you know who Clyde is? Better than your boy Wade will ever be.


Clyde? Never heard of him.


Oh you mean the Clyde that has career averages of 
20.4/6.1/5.6/2.0 on 47% ??
Career achievements: 1 ring, 5 all-nba in 15 years 

Wade career average
23.9/4.8/6.5/1.7 on 48%
Career achievements: 1 finals MVP, 1 ring, 3 all-nba in 5 years


First off, I never was comparing Wade and Drexler, I was comparing Dream Team SG's vs. 08 Team SG's.

Second, Wade has better stats and has accomplished more in 5 years, then what Drexler did in 15 years. And I don't mean to hate on Clyde because he is one of my favorite players. But get that stick out of your ***.


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## myst (Feb 22, 2006)

OneBadLT123 said:


> Is this serious? Almost all of those players on the Dream Team are all time greats, and were first ballot lock HOF's. The only position that might have an advantage would be SF. But that is only because of Lebron. Even then though, Pippen/Mullin >>> Melo and Prince.


Is this serious? You don't think this is even worthy of a discussion. 

And I said the Dream Team was better at every position except maybe SF's (which you agree with), and I personally chose SG's, that doesn't mean it's a fact.


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## Drewbs (Feb 16, 2004)

92 would probably solidly beat 08 seven or eight times out of ten.

The depth of that team is incredible, superstars two players deep at pretty much every position. The biggest advantage is that front court. Howard is nowhere near David Robinson. I don't know how Dwight has gotten so overrated lately, but comparing him to Robinson is asinine. Howard is nowhere near as refined as the Admiral offensively and isn't even comparable defensively. I don't know where people have gotten this idea that Howard is some sort of force on either defense or offense, the only reason hes considered the best center in the league is because Yao Ming can't go a season without some sort of freak injury. 

Also, Boozer? Bosh? Replace those guys with Duncan and Garnett and the team becomes significantly better.

and Drexler is overrated.


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## OneBadLT123 (Oct 4, 2005)

myst said:


> Is this serious? You don't think this is even worthy of a discussion.
> 
> And I said the Dream Team was better at every position except maybe SF's (which you agree with), and I personally chose SG's, that doesn't mean it's a fact.


No, it is fact and it isn't debatable. The only player on today's team that would make the dream team had he played in that era would have been Lebron, or maybe Kobe. Period

I am serious. A lot of people just dont understand the level of talent that team had. Not just on paper, but all the way around. Top to bottom, they had all the pieces, and completely destroyed all opposition without any problem. Granted, some could argue the international talent today is stronger than in 1992, but the way the Dream Team obliterated the competition, it was never even close. They beat teams in ways, and by margins that have yet to even been duplicated by any team since.

Team wise, coach wise, talent wise that team was superior in ever single way. Hell I would take the 96 team over this team as well. Although it would be closer than the original DT.


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## OneBadLT123 (Oct 4, 2005)

Drewbs said:


> 92 would probably solidly beat 08 seven or eight times out of ten.
> 
> The depth of that team is incredible, superstars two players deep at pretty much every position. The biggest advantage is that front court. Howard is nowhere near David Robinson. I don't know how Dwight has gotten so overrated lately, but comparing him to Robinson is asinine. Howard is nowhere near as refined as the Admiral offensively and isn't even comparable defensively. I don't know where people have gotten this idea that Howard is some sort of force on either defense or offense, the only reason hes considered the best center in the league is because Yao Ming can't go a season without some sort of freak injury.
> 
> ...




Please explain how one of the best players at his position, and best defensive players at his position was overrated? If it were not for Jordan, Drexler was the best player of that generation.


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## myst (Feb 22, 2006)

Drewbs said:


> Also, Boozer? Bosh? Replace those guys with Duncan and Garnett and the team becomes significantly better.
> 
> and Drexler is overrated.


I didn't pick the Olympic team.


And remember people, this isn't these players in their primes, it's that team in that one summer.

Edit: Here are the ages of the players on the dream team.
Patrick Ewing (30 years old, 7 years NBA)
David Robinson (27 years old, 3 years NBA)
Larry Bird (35 years old, 13 years NBA)
Scottie Pippen (age 27, 5 years NBA)
Charles Barkley (age 29, 8 years NBA)
Chris Mullin (age 29, 7 years NBA)
Karl Malone (age 29, 7 years NBA)
Magic Johnson (age 33, 12 years NBA)
Michael Jordan, (age 29, 8 years NBA)
John Stockton (age 30, 8 years NBA)
Clyde Drexler (age 30, 9 years NBA)

That's a very old team. 5 players 30 or over, and 4 are 29. That gives a bit of an edge to the '08 team. Plus, this team has been playing together for 3 years, did the Dream Team play together for a while, or were they just thrown together like the '04 team?


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## Spaceman Spiff (Aug 2, 2006)

Dream Team. Aside from Prince, nobody on the 2008 team plays much defense other than jumping in passing lanes and gambling. You don't gamble with Stockton and Magic Johnson threading needles. Jordan and Pippen will be hell bent on putting the clamps on Kobe and Wade. Dwight Howard won't get much done with his lack of a fluid post game. 

It won't be a blowout because there is no matchup for Melo or Lebron. They're either too big or too quick for anyone to handle.


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## Drewbs (Feb 16, 2004)

OneBadLT123 said:


> [/B]
> 
> Please explain how one of the best players at his position, and best defensive players at his position was overrated? If it were not for Jordan, Drexler was the best player of that generation.


Are you kidding me?

Drexler was a better player than Malone? Robinson? Olajuwon? Bird? Magic? Barkley?

Best at his position had not been for Jordan, sure, but thats like saying _player A_ would have been the best center in 2001 had it not been for O'Neal.

and to Myst:

The only players on that '92 squad past their primes were Drexler, Magic and Bird. Jordan was at his peak, Pippen was finally breaking into superstardom, Barkley was about to have an MVP season, Malone's was still in his prime (which lasted nearly a decade).


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## JFizzleRaider (Nov 1, 2004)

Drewbs said:


> Are you kidding me?
> 
> Drexler was a better player than Malone? Robinson? Olajuwon? Bird? Magic? Barkley?
> 
> ...


Drexler past his prime in 92? Are you on crack?


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## Adol (Nov 25, 2004)

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Drexler gets no respect, and it's a damn shame.


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## Fray (Dec 19, 2005)

Dream Team would blow them out like the Celtics did the Lakers in game 6.

And 08 over 92 at sg? :nonono:


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

If the '08 squad was as good as it could be (Duncan, Garnett etc) it would be much closer, the young guys simply wouldnt be able to defend Malone, Barkley etc


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## ChrisRichards (Jul 17, 2007)

we dont send our best of the best anymore

duncan, shaq, garnett, iverson etc dont go anymore


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## dwade3 (Sep 12, 2005)

Drewbs said:


> Are you kidding me?
> 
> Drexler was a better player than Malone? Robinson? Olajuwon? Bird? Magic? Barkley?
> 
> ...


you ignorant ignorant person......Clyde took his Phi Slamma Jamma team to 2 final fours, Clyde took his Blazer teams to 1 WCF on top of his 2 NBA finals runs with them, he is a champion player (as per Houton Rockets 95 team), went to the WCF again, on top the Houston finals run......an excellent defender, rebounder, passer and scorer, he is easily on Kobe Bryant/Dwyane Wade level....u cannot compare him to all those forward/centers, but in terms of team success i would say he is on par with Robinson/Olajuwan....

also whoever said Dwight Howard was on par with Robinson/Ewing must be a rolling stone........of which the stone is crack......


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## sonicFLAME6 (Dec 19, 2006)

1992


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## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

It would be close throughout the first quarter until Dwight Howard fouls out, shortly followed by Carlos Boozer which leaves Chris Bosh being the only big, good luck with that. They couldn't even beat Greece two years ago, how could they come close to beating the Dream Team ? It's really not even close. You have arguably the most talented generation in the history of basketball on one team, there is no reason to sell that short.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

matchups are pretty even until you get to the frontcourt. 

this isn't prime magic/bird. 

'92 is the more complete team. and we don't know how good wade is right now. if we had duncan from a couple years ago and oden from a couple years from now, this would be a very close matchup. 

but we're also looking at 1 team from a completely historical context. pippen was a young player at the time and had 1 all-nba season. stockton was hurt and still not fully appreciated. mullin was at his peak and about to decline. bird and magic were out of the nba. robinson was a 3rd year player. barkley had just dogged it for a 35 win team in philly. 

looking back at '08 we're going to have full context for howard, paul, williams, lebron, wade. even kobe's story might be different in 5 years.


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## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

This question is kind of a joke. 1992 wins this game easily. Not only do they have better talent, but they also had a better coach. 

As for Drexler vs Wade, this is a joke. Drexler was so much better than Wade it's not even funny. And please don't insult knowledgable basketball fans with stats. Wade can't hold a candle to Drexler on the basketball court. 

Drexler was easily the second best player behind Jordan in his prime.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

mediocre man said:


> This question is kind of a joke. 1992 wins this game easily. Not only do they have better talent, but they also had a better coach.
> 
> As for Drexler vs Wade, this is a joke. Drexler was so much better than Wade it's not even funny. And please don't insult knowledgable basketball fans with stats. Wade can't hold a candle to Drexler on the basketball court.
> 
> Drexler was easily the second best player behind Jordan in his prime.



lol. he was arguably the 2nd best player in the league for a single season ('92). and i can see how production would be insulting to throw into the discussion in comparing players from different eras. drexler vs wade is far from a joke.


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## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

myst said:


> Clyde? Never heard of him.
> 
> 
> Oh you mean the Clyde that has career averages of
> ...



You must be talking about Wade's inflated numbers when Shaq was on his team. That Shaq guy appears to make people arond him better. Shaq is the reason Wade won a championship, as Hakeem is the reason Drexler won one. As for all star games, Drexler had sooooooooooooo many more players in his conference to compete against. Wade plays in the jv conference and has virtually no one else to compete with


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## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

mediocre man said:


> You must be talking about Wade's inflated numbers when Shaq was on his team. That Shaq guy appears to make people arond him better. Shaq is the reason Wade won a championship, as Hakeem is the reason Drexler won one. As for all star games, Drexler had sooooooooooooo many more players in his conference to compete against. Wade plays in the jv conference and has virtually no one else to compete with


The JV league just won two of the last three titles. While the West is better overall, it doesn't mean that there aren't teams that can't win the championship. 

If anything, Wade carried Shaq to his fourth title, not the other way around. And do you realize that Wade was more effective when Shaq wasn't on the court or injured ? This is a legit comparison and you are kidding yourself if you think that stats are irrelevant.


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## MrJayremmie (Dec 29, 2007)

92 vs 08

PG 92 > 08
SG 92 > 08
SF 92 = 08
PF 92 >>> 08
C 92 >> 08

that is what i think. i thnk LeBron would go for like 45ish and keep the 08 team in it for 3 QTRs (within 10) and then the 92 team would end up with a 20 point win at the end.

Anyway, about Clyde. Honestly, i think he is very comparible to Wade (not this year). But we have to remember, Wade is coming off a crummy season where injuries played a huge part. This isn't the old Wade. I think that Clyde in 92 would have a little edge over Wade in 2008. And yea, Jordan >> Kobe (which is actually a compliment to Kobe, imo).

But damn, i would LOVE to watch this game, lol. I'd shell out good money to see this.


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## hastyle (Sep 21, 2005)

shouldn't we ask this question after the '08 team wins the Olympics? (or loses)


I'll pick '92. All you have to do is pound the rock inside, and its all over.


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## bballlife (Oct 5, 2003)

I don't know. There are some things working for/against both teams. I would probably give the edge to the 1992 team, though, based on the front line. There is no reason Prince should be on the team over Chandler. Add Duncan and KG and to this team and you have a tougher question.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

MrJayremmie said:


> 92 vs 08
> 
> PG 92 >> 08
> SG 92 > 08
> ...


remember, magic was retired a full year, and stockton was hurt. you could easily argue paul is the best pg of the group.


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## MrJayremmie (Dec 29, 2007)

yea, the 08 team would be way better with something like..

PG - Paul, Williams
SG - Kobe, Wade
SF - LeBron, Anthony
PF - KG, Bosh/Stoudemire
C - Duncan, Howard

That would be way better, imo. And would probably keep it within 10 points.



> remember, magic was retired a full year, and stockton was hurt. you could easily argue paul is the best pg of the group.


hmm, didn't take that into consideration. I suppose then at most i'd put 92 > 08. Sounds about right, no?


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## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

kflo said:


> remember, magic was retired a full year, and stockton was hurt. you could easily argue paul is the best pg of the group.


Yes, but Kidd will probably be the starter and that negates what Paul and Williams bring to the table.


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## Protein Data Bank (Sep 10, 2006)

myst said:


> Second, Wade has better stats and has accomplished more in 5 years, then what Drexler did in 15 years. And I don't mean to hate on Clyde because he is one of my favorite players. But get that stick out of your ***.


oh man


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## Prolific Scorer (Dec 16, 2005)

Drewbs said:


> and Drexler is overrated.


*They used to call Clyde Drexler the "MJ of the Western Conference"...


*


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

croco said:


> Yes, but Kidd will probably be the starter and that negates what Paul and Williams bring to the table.


i wouldn't assume kidd's the starter or gets majority minutes. not with the noticably large gap in their current level of play. it'll really depend on how well they all gel together as a unit. paul is one of the legitimate stars on this team. he's going to play alot.


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## GrayFan34 (Jul 7, 2008)

myst said:


> Dream Team Roster:
> PG- John Stockton, Magic Johnson
> SG- Michael Jordan, Clyde Drexler
> SF- Larry Bird, Scottie Pippen, Chris Mullin
> ...


1992 dream team would run over them.

What about the 1992 Dream Team vs the 1994 Dream Team? That would be a matchup worth watching.


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## bballlife (Oct 5, 2003)

croco said:


> Yes, but Kidd will probably be the starter and that negates what Paul and Williams bring to the table.


Kidd may be the better fit here because of his transition game, and willingness to move the basketball.


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## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

32 year old Magic Johnson = 6'9 230lb PG who can guard ANY position and is a 20ppg and 12apg player. Yeah, I'll take that on my team any day. Then for his backup you have the ALL TIME leader in steals in Stockton who also can run an offense better than ANY PG today. 

Jordan and Drexler.... come on.... that's a nightmare for anyone. Jordan had insane stamina and when they would take him out of the game, in comes Clyde?!? As for all of you who are bagging on Clyde for not making All NBA more, he was up against Isiah Thomas, Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan, John Stockton, Mark Price, Kevin Johnson, and Joe Dumars. In the past 8 years they've struggled to find people worthy in the guard positions of All NBA honors, especially since they expanded it to 3 teams instead of 2.

Pippen, Bird, Barkley, Malone.... Let's just say no team could guard or score against this lineup. 


Ewing and Robinson are two of the best centers of all time. They both have size and athleticism so Dwight can't out muscle them nor could he out-quick them. 

This game would be a blowout rather quickly with Magic guarding Lebron, Pippen on Paul, Jordan on Kobe, Malone on Boozer, and Robinson on Howard. That would pretty much seal the deal.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

IceMan23and3 said:


> 32 year old Magic Johnson = 6'9 230lb PG who can guard ANY position and is a 20ppg and 12apg player. Yeah, I'll take that on my team any day. Then for his backup you have the ALL TIME leader in steals in Stockton who also can run an offense better than ANY PG today.
> 
> Jordan and Drexler.... come on.... that's a nightmare for anyone. Jordan had insane stamina and when they would take him out of the game, in comes Clyde?!? As for all of you who are bagging on Clyde for not making All NBA more, he was up against Isiah Thomas, Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan, John Stockton, Mark Price, Kevin Johnson, and Joe Dumars. In the past 8 years they've struggled to find people worthy in the guard positions of All NBA honors, especially since they expanded it to 3 teams instead of 2.
> 
> ...


1992 magic on lebron is an epic defensive mismatch, and pippen would have tremendous problems with paul.


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## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

kflo said:


> 1992 magic on lebron is an epic defensive mismatch, and pippen would have tremendous problems with paul.


because Pippen was one of the best defenders of all time? Fine, then put Stockton on Paul and Pippen on James.


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## nikolokolus (Jan 29, 2008)

Sweet Jesus, all these "youngins" who never actually got to see Clyde in all his glory. I'm spoiled of course since I'm in my mid thirties, so I got to watch plenty of Clyde in my teens and early twenties. Minus Jordan, arguably the best shooting guard to ever play the game (could have scored more but was more interested in getting his teammates involved and was an outstanding defender).

But hey kiddies, you're right _Wade pwns Drexler_; hard to argue with that kind of flawless logic.

As for the 1992 team vs. the 2008 squad -- 1992 dream team and it isn't even close. those guys played in the hand-check era and still put up the kinds of numbers they did, not too mention this year's version of Team USA is trying to play small ball with their lineup and are probably going to get abused by the Greeks, Russians, Spanish, and/or the Argentinians at some point in Beijing. Good times.


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## DuMa (Dec 25, 2004)

Dream Team. easily the best team assembled in the history of mankind. Hitler would cream his pants if he saw the Dream Team in his rear view mirror.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

1992 Dream Team would hammer the 08 team. The 92 team had arguably the greatest player ever in Jordan who was in his prime. Who's as athletic, has probably the best hands, and is x 10 the defender than anyone the 08 team has to offer. Than you have fundamentals from the superstars down to the guy's that execute to perfection ala Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, and John Stockton. They can make every easy pass, and every behind the back no look pass all day long. These guys had eyes behind their heads long before the Jason Kidd commercial. Than you have the trash talker, the guy that's going to punch your best players in the mouth when they think they can pop off after a nice play, that would be Charles Barkley, he's going to fight, rebound, and score in the paint. He's a force and a loose cannon. So you have your defenders in the paint, and on the wings in Pippen/Jordan/Drexler and in the paint Ewing/Robinson and Malone. All can score, are all big enough to dominate any one that the 08 team tries to throw at them. The 2008 team would be overwhelmed by the starters and dazed by the bench, and then when it came to winning time a guy Like Michael Jordan would use those hands from god to squeeze the life out of players like LeBron and Kobe at the end of the game. Enjoy the vids. Good topic by the way.

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## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

bballlife said:


> Kidd may be the better fit here because of his transition game, and willingness to move the basketball.


He passes the ball because he is unable to make shots at a high clip, that's not efficient. Paul and Williams make the proper play most of the time, that means they either pass or shoot and take what the defense gives them, Kidd can't do that anymore.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

IceMan23and3 said:


> because Pippen was one of the best defenders of all time? Fine, then put Stockton on Paul and Pippen on James.


because pippen was a sf and paul a lightning fast scoring pg.

and stockton only played half the olympic games because of injury.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

nikolokolus said:


> Sweet Jesus, all these "youngins" who never actually got to see Clyde in all his glory. I'm spoiled of course since I'm in my mid thirties, so I got to watch plenty of Clyde in my teens and early twenties. Minus Jordan, arguably the best shooting guard to ever play the game (could have scored more but was more interested in getting his teammates involved and was an outstanding defender).
> 
> But hey kiddies, you're right _Wade pwns Drexler_; hard to argue with that kind of flawless logic.


actually, there has been statistical backup in favor of wade as well. there's as much to point to to favor wade as there is clyde. 

he maybe could have scored more, but he scored less efficiently than wade anyway. and he was a pretty good defender, certainly not outstanding. it's a hard argument to put him at 2nd ever sg when he was 1st or 2nd team all-nba 3 times in his career. kobe and west pretty easily have a lock on the 2 and 3 spots (pick your order) right now.

i saw clyde alot, saw him from his college days. he was a great player. wade is a great player. both dynamic, freakishly athletic, well-rounded players. personally think wade's the more reliable half-court player, clyde more dynamic. it really is a close call.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

nikolokolus said:


> As for the 1992 team vs. the 2008 squad -- 1992 dream team and it isn't even close. those guys played in the hand-check era and still put up the kinds of numbers they did, not too mention this year's version of Team USA is trying to play small ball with their lineup and are probably going to get abused by the Greeks, Russians, Spanish, and/or the Argentinians at some point in Beijing. Good times.


the hand check era was the era where numbers were higher across the board league-wide, because they played at a faster pace.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

23AJ said:


> 1992 Dream Team would hammer the 08 team. The 92 team had arguably the greatest player ever in Jordan who was in his prime. Who's as athletic, has probably the best hands, and is x 10 the defender than anyone the 08 team has to offer. Than you have fundamentals from the superstars down to the guy's that execute to perfection ala Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, and John Stockton. They can make every easy pass, and every behind the back no look pass all day long. These guys had eyes behind their heads long before the Jason Kidd commercial. Than you have the trash talker, the guy that's going to punch your best players in the mouth when they think they can pop off after a nice play, that would be Charles Barkley, he's going to fight, rebound, and score in the paint. He's a force and a loose cannon. So you have your defenders in the paint, and on the wings in Pippen/Jordan/Drexler and in the paint Ewing/Robinson and Malone. All can score, are all big enough to dominate any one that the 08 team tries to throw at them. The 2008 team would be overwhelmed by the starters and dazed by the bench, and then when it came to winning time a guy Like Michael Jordan would use those hands from god to squeeze the life out of players like LeBron and Kobe at the end of the game. Enjoy the vids. Good topic by the way.



people forget jordan shot 45% in the olympics (by far the worst on the team not including laettner) while taking almost 4 shots a game more than anyone else. stockton played 4 of 8 games, magic 6 of 8 because of injury, and bird was almost a token player.


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## bballlife (Oct 5, 2003)

croco said:


> He passes the ball because he is unable to make shots at a high clip, that's not efficient. Paul and Williams make the proper play most of the time, that means they either pass or shoot and take what the defense gives them, Kidd can't do that anymore.


He is a pure point who is not a great scorer. He's not unselfish because he can't score. The #1 traditional skill for a PG is to get your teammates good looks.

You have the two best scorers in the world in the starting lineup, as well as an absolute ball stopper in Melo, the team needs a point guard that will promote good ball movement. Williams and Paul are better than Kidd but you have to look at the whole unit. Kidd's impact on the team last summer was quite noticeable. 

For international ball in general, some of the advantages Kidd has over Paul: Can defend 1 & 2's, better pick-and-roll defender, better closing out shooters, better rebounder, superior at starting and running a fast break. 

For these reasons, I would probably start Kidd.


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## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

kflo said:


> because pippen was a sf and paul a lightning fast scoring pg.
> 
> and stockton only played half the olympic games because of injury.


Would you have Marion guard Paul? Marion's a SF. What about Grant Hill? How about Kobe? They're all the same size. Pippen was incredibly quick and had incredibly long arms.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

IceMan23and3 said:


> Would you have Marion guard Paul? Marion's a SF. What about Grant Hill? How about Kobe? They're all the same size. Pippen was incredibly quick and had incredibly long arms.


i just wouldn't expect pippen to have tremendous success slowing down paul, who is too quick for him. pippen wasn't the best at moving his feet guarding a quicker player straight up. he rarely guarded pg's. but dream team didn't have many other players capable of slowing him either. jordan would be the better choice to guard paul actually. but that of course takes him off kobe. paul is just a matchup problem for that team. but he's also a defensive liability against them as well, although he could be disruptive and force a fair amount of turnovers.


----------



## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

bballlife said:


> He is a pure point who is not a great scorer. He's not unselfish because he can't score. The #1 traditional skill for a PG is to get your teammates good looks.
> 
> You have the two best scorers in the world in the starting lineup, as well as an absolute ball stopper in Melo, the team needs a point guard that will promote good ball movement. Williams and Paul are better than Kidd but you have to look at the whole unit. Kidd's impact on the team last summer was quite noticeable.
> 
> ...


Kidd can't defend the pick and roll at all, that was one of the main reasons why the Mavs couldn't contain Chris Paul in the playoffs. He is only a good defender against big and slow guards and you won't score on him in the low post, but most of the guys will be a lot quicker than him. 

I'm also not buying that "international basketball" thing. You send your best players, you play with a traditional lineup, you play hard, you build a good team chemistry and you win. If you don't, you don't, there is nothing magical about the difference between the FIBA and the NBA.


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## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

kflo said:


> i just wouldn't expect pippen to have tremendous success slowing down paul, who is too quick for him. pippen wasn't the best at moving his feet guarding a quicker player straight up. he rarely guarded pg's. but dream team didn't have many other players capable of slowing him either. jordan would be the better choice to guard paul actually. but that of course takes him off kobe. paul is just a matchup problem for that team. but he's also a defensive liability against them as well, although he could be disruptive and force a fair amount of turnovers.


Pippen was a 10 time All NBA Defensive team and 8 time First Team member. I do agree that Paul is a problem for anyone to guard, but in a team setting, he would have to defer to Kobe, James, and Anthony.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

IceMan23and3 said:


> Pippen was a 10 time All NBA Defensive team and 8 time First Team member. I do agree that Paul is a problem for anyone to guard, but in a team setting, he would have to defer to Kobe, James, and Anthony.


i'm aware of his defensive credentials. gary payton is equally credentialed, but that doesn't mean he'd be especially effective guarding lebron james or bernard king. they played different positions, and pippen rarely guarded pg's. he got his defensive credentials guarding mostly opposing sf's.


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

myst said:


> Dream Team Roster:
> PG- John Stockton, Magic Johnson
> SG- Michael Jordan, Clyde Drexler
> SF- Larry Bird, Scottie Pippen, Chris Mullin
> ...


The frontcourt positions tells it all: who is gonna score in the paint against a Karl Malone / D-Rob tandem? And who would stop a Chuck / Ewing offensive frontcourt?

It's really not much of a contest. Karl, Chuck, P-Ew and Robinson would demolish the 2008 team inside AND stop them in the other end.


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## bballlife (Oct 5, 2003)

croco said:


> Kidd can't defend the pick and roll at all, that was one of the main reasons why the Mavs couldn't contain Chris Paul in the playoffs. He is only a good defender against big and slow guards and you won't score on him in the low post, but most of the guys will be a lot quicker than him.
> 
> I'm also not buying that "international basketball" thing. You send your best players, you play with a traditional lineup, you play hard, you build a good team chemistry and you win. If you don't, you don't, there is nothing magical about the difference between the FIBA and the NBA.



??? Most teams had a lot of problems stopping New Orleans in a pick-and-roll situation. If you spread the court and run a high screen & roll, any quick PG is guaranteed to get into the paint. 

I didn't say Kidd was a great P&R defender. I said he is better than Paul in this case. Unquestionably on switches and fighting through screens because he is bigger and stronger. 2006 in Japan saw Paul get completely blanketed on most high screens. 

There is obviously room for Team USA to improve the formula after really underachieving the last few trips. The 2006 team had an overwhelming advantage in basketball talent and yet 3rd place. When you assemble all-star teams, finding the right balance is key. There is only 1 basketball. The mix has to be right.


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## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

bballlife said:


> ??? Most teams had a lot of problems stopping New Orleans in a pick-and-roll situation. If you spread the court and run a high screen & roll, any quick PG is guaranteed to get into the paint.
> 
> I didn't say Kidd was a great P&R defender. I said he is better than Paul in this case. Unquestionably on switches and fighting through screens because he is bigger and stronger. 2006 in Japan saw Paul get completely blanketed on most high screens.
> 
> There is obviously room for Team USA to improve the formula after really underachieving the last few trips. The 2006 team had an overwhelming advantage in basketball talent and yet 3rd place. When you assemble all-star teams, finding the right balance is key. There is only 1 basketball. The mix has to be right.


The 2008 edition of Chris Paul is a lot better than the 2006 edition. And I really don't know how bad Kidd needs to play to realize that he is washed up. This is the same guy who averaged 8/6/7 in 36 mpg in the playoffs this year, he struggled on both ends. You are making it more complicated than you have to, Kidd is not a better defender than Paul or Williams and even if he were it doesn't justify giving him any minutes over those two because both of them are so much better offensively. 

Part of Kidd's struggles was also the inability of the Dallas big men to defend the pick and roll, but that's not going to change on that team. Most opponents will be running the pick and roll over and over again until they figure it out. Kidd was getting Rondo type treatment in a lot of situations in the playoffs and this isn't going to change either. The only matchup where Kidd might have success is against Greece who like to play big. 

As for sharing the basketball, you make it sound like Paul or Williams aren't willing passers. That problem won't come down to either, only if someone like Kobe or Carmelo start to think that they have to take over and disrupt the offensive flow. Kidd will not be a minus against Angola or China, this is about Spain, Argentina, Lithuania, Russia and maybe Greece. You can't insert Kidd into the starting lineup just to make him a distributor who will never take a shot and please the other four guys. Everyone needs to put their ego a little bit aside for the time during the tournament or the same questions over the attitude of some will rise again.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

1992 is slightly overrated because a lot of those guys were not in their primes. But they'd still win this matchup because 2008's frontcourt is so small. Malone and Barkley, especially the Barkley of 92(who domianted the olympics I might add) would run roughshod over Boozer and Bosh. 2008 would have to put Lebron on Barkley if he was playing I think.

Lebron and point guard are the only positions there are possible advantages, since Magic was not the Magic of old, and John Stockton never really meshed with the 92 team like Kidd has with the current team.

Another thing to consider is how much time 2008 has had together. Some of these guys have been playing together for 3 years now. And that would be a factor.

People don't want to understand how much better the world has gotten.

I don't know that 92 would blow out teams on it's way to gold against current world competition. But they do have something 2008 doesn't have, which is a gold medal. If 2008 can play the beautiful basketball they did in south america last summer, against the world, and win the gold convincingly, then they are better than 92 because the competition is greater.


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## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

kflo said:


> i'm aware of his defensive credentials. gary payton is equally credentialed, but that doesn't mean he'd be especially effective guarding lebron james or bernard king. they played different positions, and pippen rarely guarded pg's. he got his defensive credentials guarding mostly opposing sf's.


Jackson put Pippen on Isiah in the playoffs.


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## Air Jordan 23 (Dec 12, 2006)

Dream Team by a least 20. With the exception of that scrub Laettner (Shaq should have been on the Dream Team), every player is a member of the 50 greatest players list (not sure about Mullin, but he's still a better shooter than anyone on the 2008 team).


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## Air Jordan 23 (Dec 12, 2006)

kflo said:


> matchups are pretty even until you get to the frontcourt.
> 
> this isn't prime magic/bird.
> 
> ...



Dude, you could put a prime Duncan, prime Oden (and who the hell knows if Oden will be any good?) and a prime Garnett on the 2008 team and they'd STILL get their asses beat.

Yeah, Bird and Magic may have been past their primes, but everyone else on the Dream Team were in their primes.

Jordan
Malone
Stockton
Drexler
Barkley
Robinson
Ewing
Pippen (just starting his prime years)
Mullin

The 2008 team gets dusted. Period.


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## bballlife (Oct 5, 2003)

croco said:


> The 2008 edition of Chris Paul is a lot better than the 2006 edition.


True, but he is still the same height and weight. 



> This is the same guy who averaged 8/6/7 in 36 mpg in the playoffs this year, he struggled on both ends.


Kidd still has value despite the drop in numbers. And in the Olympics, with this team, there will be heavy emphasis and probably plenty of opportunities for early offense. Just like last summer. Kidd still has the best transition game of the three. I already covered the P&R edge.



> You are making it more complicated than you have to, Kidd is not a better defender than Paul or Williams.


Plenty of people would call Kidd the best defender of the bunch. Still a good help defender, and he does a very good job on some of the top shooting guards in the league. It's hard to evaluate individual defense, but imo, Kidd is the better overall defender between him and Paul. He gets taken off the dribble quite a bit against quick pg's, but that won't be as much of a problem against most of these teams. 



> Part of Kidd's struggles was also the inability of the Dallas big men to defend the pick and roll, but that's not going to change on that team. Most opponents will be running the pick and roll over and over again until they figure it out. Kidd was getting Rondo type treatment in a lot of situations in the playoffs and this isn't going to change either. The only matchup where Kidd might have success is against Greece who like to play big.


I am not sure what you are saying here. Yes, the team will face a million pick and rolls in the Olympics. 
Not sure what “Rondo treatment” has to do with defending a pick & roll. I assume you mean sagging off Kidd when he is on offense? 



> As for sharing the basketball, you make it sound like Paul or Williams aren't willing passers. That problem won't come down to either, only if someone like Kobe or Carmelo start to think that they have to take over and disrupt the offensive flow. Kidd will not be a minus against Angola or China, this is about Spain, Argentina, Lithuania, Russia and maybe Greece.


I don't think so. Williams is terrific at understanding when to score, and he would be my early vote to get the most minutes at the PG spot. Paul has shown great ability in the NBA, but he has dominated the basketball the entire time. He's a great player, though, so I expect him to adjust. 



> You can't insert Kidd into the starting lineup just to make him a distributor who will never take a shot and please the other four guys.


No, but you can insert him into the starting lineup for his leadership (mentioned by several players and Coach K) and his transition game, and solid defense in most situations. He doesn't have to be a scorer in the 20 minutes or whatever a night. He can still shoot the open 20-footer or drive if his man is playing that far off him.


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## Air Jordan 23 (Dec 12, 2006)

futuristxen said:


> 1992 is slightly overrated because a lot of those guys were not in their primes. But they'd still win this matchup because 2008's frontcourt is so small. Malone and Barkley, especially the Barkley of 92(who domianted the olympics I might add) would run roughshod over Boozer and Bosh. 2008 would have to put Lebron on Barkley if he was playing I think.
> 
> Lebron and point guard are the only positions there are possible advantages, since Magic was not the Magic of old, and John Stockton never really meshed with the 92 team like Kidd has with the current team.
> 
> ...



Dude, they were "slightly overrated because a lot of those guys were not in their primes"?

Seriously, WTF? Only TWO of them were past their primes. All others, excluding college boy Laettner, were in their prime, or at least coming into it.

And yes, they'd STILL kill the international competition today. Maybe instead of beating them by, what, 44 ppg, they'd win by 40 ppg.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

if duncan/KG were there, it would be a pretty even matchup. people are underrating just how good the 2/3 combo of kobe/lebron really is. the frontcourt is definitely where the dream team has a huge advantage.


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## King George (Jun 21, 2003)

Dream Team in a slowdown game. Fast pace game '08 would kill them


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## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

bballlife said:


> No, but you can insert him into the starting lineup for his leadership (mentioned by several players and Coach K) and his transition game, and solid defense in most situations. He doesn't have to be a scorer in the 20 minutes or whatever a night. He can still shoot the open 20-footer or drive if his man is playing that far off him.


He is a very streaky shooter, sometimes he can make three threes in a row whereas he can't hit anything at times even when he is wide-open. Byron Scott told his players to leave Kidd open and sag off of him, make him beat you, that's the same strategy the Lakers tried against Rondo and it worked. Kidd doesn't want to shoot the basketball because he knows that he is not effective at it and he is also hesitant to drive to the basket.

I wouldn't use the America tournament as a good indicator last year, that was weak competition except for Argentina although they were also missing some key players. You need five players who can make shots, otherwise teams can play zone all day which they will be doing anyway.


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## hroz (Mar 4, 2006)

Apart from the SF position I think the 92 team is way better. Remember this is 92? Who lead the Trailblazers to the NBA FINALS and had a huge finals series. YOur talking about a guy who came second to MJ in MVP and many many thought he deserved to win it.


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## NewAgeBaller (Jan 8, 2007)

mediocre man said:


> You must be talking about Wade's inflated numbers when Shaq was on his team. That Shaq guy appears to make people arond him better. Shaq is the reason Wade won a championship, as Hakeem is the reason Drexler won one. As for all star games, Drexler had sooooooooooooo many more players in his conference to compete against. Wade plays in the jv conference and has virtually no one else to compete with


you're kidding right..?


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## el_Diablo (May 15, 2003)

> People don't want to understand how much better the world has gotten.


croatia was pretty good then.. petrovic, kukoc, radja, vrankovic etc. probably not as good as the best national (argentina/spain etc.) teams these days, but not total scrubs either..


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

IceMan23and3 said:


> Jackson put Pippen on Isiah in the playoffs.


adelman put ainge on jordan in the playoffs. 

jackson put pippen on some pg's in some instances in some games, with varying degrees of success.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

King George said:


> Dream Team in a slowdown game. Fast pace game '08 would kill them


that's pretty nuts. the '92 team had many of the best transition players at their position of all time. magic, jordan, drexler, barkley, malone, robinson, pippen, stockton (although injured) were all among the best transition players ever. the '08 team does NOT want to run with them all game.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

Air Jordan 23 said:


> Dude, you could put a prime Duncan, prime Oden (and who the hell knows if Oden will be any good?) and a prime Garnett on the 2008 team and they'd STILL get their asses beat.
> 
> Yeah, Bird and Magic may have been past their primes, but everyone else on the Dream Team were in their primes.
> 
> ...



duncan
garnett
lebron
kobe
oden
paul
wade
howard

that list 16 years from now will look pretty awesome on paper as well.


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## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

kflo said:


> adelman put ainge on jordan in the playoffs.
> 
> jackson put pippen on some pg's in some instances in some games, with varying degrees of success.


Pippen was the Bulls best perimeter defender after Jordan. They just didn't want to put Jordan on Isiah because that would definitely tire him out with the offensive load he'd have to carry. Hell, you could put Jordan on Paul and be done with it. He doesn't have to carry the team offensively so they can REALLY dig in defensively.


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## bballlife (Oct 5, 2003)

croco said:


> He is a very streaky shooter, sometimes he can make three threes in a row whereas he can't hit anything at times even when he is wide-open. Byron Scott told his players to leave Kidd open and sag off of him, make him beat you, that's the same strategy the Lakers tried against Rondo and it worked. Kidd doesn't want to shoot the basketball because he knows that he is not effective at it and he is also hesitant to drive to the basket.
> 
> I wouldn't use the America tournament as a good indicator last year, that was weak competition except for Argentina although they were also missing some key players. You need five players who can make shots, otherwise teams can play zone all day which they will be doing anyway.


I am well aware of Kidd's limitations offensively. That won't be as big of an issue when he is surrounded by very good to elite players. Are Kobe and Lebron not great passers, both adept at handling double teams?? This team will still have the ability to get good shots, even with Kidd's man playing way off in half-court sets.


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## da bully (Oct 17, 2006)

you 08 guys keep talking about how much more even it would be if 08 had players like duncan, garnett, etc well, what if the dream team had isiah thomas, olajuwan and shaq? the fact is, that the dream team has an edge in shooting, scoring, defense, size, coaching, and experience. and, this is the same team that lost in the world games already minus kobe.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

da bully said:


> you 08 guys keep talking about how much more even it would be if 08 had players like duncan, garnett, etc well, what if the dream team had isiah thomas, olajuwan and shaq? the fact is, that the dream team has an edge in shooting, scoring, defense, size, coaching, and experience. and, this is the same team that lost in the world games already minus kobe.


shaq was still in college, and hakeem wasn't an american citizen. and isiah was in deep decline. point is, everyone asked in '92 played. there were no not interesteds.


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## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

bballlife said:


> I am well aware of Kidd's limitations offensively. That won't be as big of an issue when he is surrounded by very good to elite players. Are Kobe and Lebron not great passers, both adept at handling double teams?? This team will still have the ability to get good shots, even with Kidd's man playing way off in half-court sets.


See, this is the problem with people's thinking in this thread. They assume that other players can pick up the offensive slack left. But look at how many players that are on Team USA 2008 are not great offensive threats. There are only about 6 elite scorers on Team USA 2008 and they all play SG and SF. How many players on the Dream Team were not elite offensive players? Laettner and that's about it. None of them had a glaring weakness where the defense could relax and let them shoot. 

Not only could they all score, but all of the big men were also elite rebounders and defenders. How many 10rpg guys are on 2008? One? Boozer and Bosh aren't great rebounders nor shot blockers. In fact, how many players on Team USA are elite individual defenders? Kobe, LeBron, Paul, Kidd, Howard and that's about it. Other than Howard, who can block a shot? This is one of the weaker teams in Team USA history just because the players aren't as good as they have been. I don't mean to knock them, but it's just fact. 

If Team USA had Duncan, Stoudemire and KG, then it would be more of a fair contest. But they don't.


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## bballlife (Oct 5, 2003)

kflo said:


> shaq was still in college, and hakeem wasn't an american citizen. and isiah was in deep decline. point is, everyone asked in '92 played. there were no not interesteds.



Shaq was considered. I read way back then that the final spot was between Shaq and Laettner and they decided to go with Laettner. 

There is a story/myth why Isiah was not asked.


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## TP3 (Jan 26, 2003)

Dream Team would make 08 look foolish. They understood how to play the game and they played it correctly...08 doesn't have a clue.

kflo and myst...thanks for the humor youngsters.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

bballlife said:


> Shaq was considered. I read way back then that the final spot was between Shaq and Laettner and they decided to go with Laettner.
> 
> There is a story/myth why Isiah was not asked.


i'm aware shaq was considered. it was a token spot, and it would have been token whether it was shaq or laettner.


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

TP3 said:


> Dream Team would make 08 look foolish. They understood how to play the game and they played it correctly...08 doesn't have a clue.
> 
> kflo and myst...thanks for the humor youngsters.


I'm willing to bet at least one of the people you're talking to is older than you.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

TP3 said:


> Dream Team would make 08 look foolish. They understood how to play the game and they played it correctly...08 doesn't have a clue.
> 
> kflo and myst...thanks for the humor youngsters.


maybe you can quote the part you find particularly funny. 

and lol at youngster.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

bballlife said:


> Shaq was considered. I read way back then that the final spot was between Shaq and Laettner and they decided to go with Laettner.
> 
> There is a story/myth why Isiah was not asked.


even if isiah was asked, it would have been for lifetime achievement, not because he was the best at the time. i thought he deserved it at the time.


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

kflo said:


> even if isiah was asked, it would have been for lifetime achievement, not because he was the best at the time. i thought he deserved it at the time.


Isiah was NOT asked. Story goes that Jordan didn't want him on the team and he vetoed Zeke's selection.
Knowing he hadn't been selected, and Stockton was, in the following Jazz-Pistons game Isiah was torching Stockton in the game, untill KArl Malone cracked upon his head and Isiah had to leave the game...

Good times...


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

PauloCatarino said:


> Isiah was NOT asked. Story goes that Jordan didn't want him on the team and he vetoed Zeke's selection.
> Knowing he hadn't been selected, and Stockton was, in the following Jazz-Pistons game Isiah was torching Stockton in the game, untill KArl Malone cracked upon his head and Isiah had to leave the game...
> 
> Good times...


i'm aware he wasn't asked - i was just saying if he did get an invite it would have been a lifetime achievement invite.

by '92 there was also an apparent falling out with magic.


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

kflo said:


> i'm aware he wasn't asked - i was just saying if he did get an invite it would have been a lifetime achievement invite.


I'm not following you, kflo... By 1991/1992, wasn't Zeke still one of the best PG around? And the idea was not only to bring out the best players, but also the most knowned (sp?) names. That is the reason Larry Bird was selected, after all... And the reason Nique and Zeke got angry about not being selected... And i hate to bring out the race card, but the fact that Mullin and Stockton (and Laettner) got picked ahead of Nique, Zeke and Shaq was a little strange... 



> by '92 there was also an apparent falling out with magic.


Yup. If i remember correctly, story goes that, after Magic announced he had contracted HIV, Zeke was hinting to people Magic was gay...


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## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

PauloCatarino said:


> Yup. If i remember correctly, story goes that, after Magic announced he had contracted HIV, Zeke was hinting to people Magic was gay...


Let's just say Isiah got tested too....


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

IceMan23and3 said:


> Let's just say Isiah got tested too....


The first on-court kiss in the history of the NBA!!!! :clap:


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## Boob-No-More (Apr 24, 2006)

kflo said:


> actually, there has been statistical backup in favor of wade as well. there's as much to point to to favor wade as there is clyde.


Where???? The ONLY comparison I've seen in this entire seven page threads lists a few "awards" and some career numbers. Remember, we are comparing Clyde in the summer of 1992 to Wade in the summer of 2008. 

Here's what their numbers looked like for the season just prior to the Olympics: 


```
PPG  RPG  APG  SPG  BPG   FG%    3FG%   FT%    TS%   PER   WS
Drexler 25.0  6.6  6.7  1.8  0.9  0.470  0.337  0.794  0.560  23.6  [B]36[/B]
Wade    24.6  4.2  6.9  1.7  0.7  0.469  0.286  0.758  0.549  21.5   [B]6[/B]
```
And most importantly Clyde had just lead his team to the NBA finals (and his numbers in the playoffs were even better - 26.3/7.4/7.0 - than in the regular season)while Wade just lead his team to 15 wins and the league's worst record.



kflo said:


> he maybe could have scored more, but he scored less efficiently than wade anyway.


Please explain how the guy who scores less and shoots a lower FG%, a lower 3FG%, a lower FT% and has a lower TS% is the more efficient scorer?

BNM


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## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

Boob-No-More said:


> Please explain how the guy who scores less and shoots a lower FG%, a lower 3FG%, a lower FT% and has a lower TS% is the more efficient scorer?
> 
> BNM


You compared stats in a year that Wade was coming off two surgeries and posted his worst stats second only to his rookie year in order to support your argument?

Compare their first 4 years in the league to each other for me.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

Boob-No-More said:


> Where???? The ONLY comparison I've seen in this entire seven page threads lists a few "awards" and some career numbers. Remember, we are comparing Clyde in the summer of 1992 to Wade in the summer of 2008.
> 
> Here's what their numbers looked like for the season just prior to the Olympics:
> 
> ...



on a PER basis, wade's best seasons were easily better than clydes, as well as scoring more efficiently. we'll see how wade does in '09 to really assess wade in this olympics. clyde's per for the '93 season was low.


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## mysterio (May 20, 2003)

Is this some kind of joke?

The two greatest pgs of all time
The greatest sg and GOAT
Arguably the greatest SF of all time
Arguably the two greatest PF of all time (at least both top 4, all-time)
Two legendary C, one of which was an eventual MVP

All 30 or under (except Magic, who didn't rely on youthful athleticism to win anyway), so still in their prime years.

vs. 

Maybe 3 players who might make top 5 all time for their respective positions, and the rest just really good multiple all-star calibre players. Also, I would count age against this group. A lot of these players are still not fully ripened.

It would be a massacre.


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## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

Has the 1996 team against 2008 been discussed?

PG: Gary Payton, John Stockton, Penny Hardaway
SG: Reggie Miller, Mitch Richmond
SF: Scottie Pippen, Grant Hill
PF: Karl Malone, Charles Barkley
C: Shaquille O'Neal, David Robinson, Hakeem Olajuwon


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## Boob-No-More (Apr 24, 2006)

adam said:


> You compared stats in a year that Wade was coming off two surgeries and posted his worst stats second only to his rookie year in order to support your argument?


No, what I compared were their stats for the season that ended immediately before their trips to the Olympics, because those stats are the most relevant as to how they were performing at the time they went to the Olympics. 



adam said:


> Compare their first 4 years in the league to each other for me.


Why? How is that relevant to this discussion? This topic is the 1992 US Olympic team vs. the 2008 US Olympic team, not Dwyane Wade's early career vs. Clyde Drexler's early career.

And, not that it's relevant to THIS discussion, but check back with me in 10 years to see how Wade's career stacks up against Drexler's. Injuries are part of the game and thanks to his injuries Wade's game is already in decline. After Drexler's first 4 years he was still improving and went on to have 11 more very productive seasons. Wade has the talent to equal Drexler's career performance. The question is does he have the durability to play another decade at a very high level. Given that he's only played more than 61 games twice in his 5 year career, it seem unlikely he will have the kind of career to match Drexler's.

Drexler was better in 1992 than Wade is in 2008. And until Wade triples his career point, assist and rebounding totals Drexler has the better career numbers, too.

BNM


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## myst (Feb 22, 2006)

Boob-No-More said:


> Where???? The ONLY comparison I've seen in this entire seven page threads lists a few "awards" and some career numbers. Remember, we are comparing Clyde in the summer of 1992 to Wade in the summer of 2008.
> 
> Here's what their numbers looked like for the season just prior to the Olympics:
> 
> ...


NO, it is SUPPOSED to be about summer of 92 vs. summer of 08, but if you read the thread, every argument about Wade vs. Clyde has been overall. So you are using a small sample size to try to make your point. But as has been said over and over in this thread, there is a great argument that Wade has been, and will have a better career overall, while there has also been good support that Clyde was better. But don't try to trick us by using his best year vs. Wade's worst year.


----------



## Boob-No-More (Apr 24, 2006)

kflo said:


> on a PER basis, wade's best seasons were easily better than clydes, as well as scoring more efficiently. we'll see how wade does in '09 to really assess wade in this olympics. clyde's per for the '93 season was low.


So? This is 1992 Dream Team vs. 2008 TeamUSA. So, I compared Drexler's stats from the 1992 season to Wade's from the 2008 season. Seems about as apples:apples as you can get for the purposes of this tread.

As for Clyde's 1993 performance, yes it was down (but VERY similar overall to Wade's 2008 performance). Like Wade, that was an injury year for Clyde. The difference was that injury happened AFTER the 1992 Olympics. So, it is totally irrelevant to any discussion of the 1992 team vs. the 2008 team. 

In fact, for Clyde's first nine seasons leading up to the Olympics he had never played less than 73 games (he averaged 79 games per season of his first 9 years in the league). By comparison, Wade has only played more than 62 games twice in his 5 year career (five year career average = 63 games). Clyde didn't suffer any significant injuries until his 10th season in the league. Wade has already had three significant injuries in his first five seasons. That doesn't bode well for his long term career prospects.

If you want to compare careers, check back in 10 years. Wade has basically had 1.5 seasons of truly outstanding play, another 1.5 seasons of very good play and a pretty good rookie year. At this point in his career he's missed the equivalent of more than an entire season due to various injuries.

BNM


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## Air Jordan 23 (Dec 12, 2006)

mysterio said:


> Is this some kind of joke?
> 
> The two greatest pgs of all time
> The greatest sg and GOAT
> ...



Summed it all up (except Bird was well into his 30s, too--he's older than Magic).


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## Air Jordan 23 (Dec 12, 2006)

TheATLien said:


> Has the 1996 team against 2008 been discussed?
> 
> PG: Gary Payton, John Stockton, Penny Hardaway
> SG: Reggie Miller, Mitch Richmond
> ...



The 2008 team would have a better chance against the 1996 team, but they'd still get their asses handed to 'em.


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## Boob-No-More (Apr 24, 2006)

myst said:


> NO, it is SUPPOSED to be about summer of 92 vs. summer of 08, but if you read the thread, every argument about Wade vs. Clyde has been overall. So you are using a small sample size to try to make your point. But as has been said over and over in this thread, there is a great argument that Wade has been, and will have a better career overall, while there has also been good support that Clyde was better. But don't try to trick us by using his best year vs. Wade's worst year.


I'm not using any "trick" to make my point. I'm just trying to stick to the topic of the thread 1992 Dream Team vs. 2008 TeamUSA. So, I used the most relevant data - both players' stats from the season immediately proceeding the Olympics.

And 1992 was NOT Clyde's best year and 2008 was NOT Wade's worst year. Now who's trying to make up things to prove a point?

As far as career performance, Wade has basically played the equivalent of less than 4 seasons - 1.5 at a truly outstanding level, another 1.5 at a very good level and a pretty good rookie year. I think it's highly premature to say he'll have a better career than Drexler - especially given Wade's injury history.

BNM


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## mysterio (May 20, 2003)

Air Jordan 23 said:


> Summed it all up (except Bird was well into his 30s, too--he's older than Magic).


oops. Can't believe I missed that. While he was past his prime, Bird, like Magic, didn't beat you with athleticism.


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## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

Air Jordan 23 said:


> The 2008 team would have a better chance against the 1996 team, but they'd still get their asses handed to 'em.


Hell no they wouldn't have a better chance! This was 1996 Shaq not 2006 Shaq we're talkin bout here! Penny and Hill were amazing at that time! Simply some of the best play of all time (injury ruined their careers worse than most). Reggie was the HARDEST player to guard in those days. Pippen, Hill, Malone, Shaq, Hakeem, and Robinson would PWN the current front line. It wouldn't even look good! I would seriously just put Payton or Stockton with Shaq, Malone, Robinson and Hill in there for the game and switch out Barkley and Hakeem as needed. That is probably THE most dominant front court ever assembled! Shaq, Hakeem, Robinson, Malone, and Pippen were all at MVP caliber. Penny, Hill, and Richmond were shredding the NBA. These are some of the best two way players of all time. Payton, Reggie, Pippen, Hill, Malone, Shaq, Hakeem, Robinson.... I can't help but shake my head in awe at that lineup. And THEY would most likely lose to Dream Team I.


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## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

Wouldn't even be close. The original dream team would win by 20+.


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## Jordan23Forever (May 14, 2005)

IceMan23and3 said:


> Jackson put Pippen on Isiah in the playoffs.


No, he didn't. As in "it never happened." Jordan took Isiah in some games from '88-'91 (especially in the playoffs), but Pippen literally never did. Not sure where you're getting that from.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

Boob-No-More said:


> I'm not using any "trick" to make my point. I'm just trying to stick to the topic of the thread 1992 Dream Team vs. 2008 TeamUSA. So, I used the most relevant data - both players' stats from the season immediately proceeding the Olympics.
> 
> And 1992 was NOT Clyde's best year and 2008 was NOT Wade's worst year. Now who's trying to make up things to prove a point?
> 
> ...


we won't know where wade is physically until we see him play. his '09 stats will likely be a better reflection of the player we see in the olympics than his '08 stats. 

if we see a return to form wade, it's on clyde level.


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## Boob-No-More (Apr 24, 2006)

kflo said:


> we won't know where wade is physically until we see him play. his '09 stats will likely be a better reflection of the player we see in the olympics than his '08 stats.


I'm not sure I agree with that. Wade will be rusty and coming back from an injury at these Olympics. The START of the 2008-09 sesson is still 4 months away. In addition to the Olympics, Wade will have a few more months of rehab and conditioning, all of training camp and the preseason to get ready for the STARET of the 2008-09 season. His stats for the complete season won't be known for for over 9 months. Trying to base his preformance at this summer's Olympics on assumptions about things that won't even happen until months later seems like nothing more than guess work. 

Will he be healthier and play at a higher level than he did back in Dec, Jan, Feb and early Mar prior to this latest injury? No one knows until he takes the court, but that's the most recent data we have to go by and I'll take that known data over crystal ball projections about what may or may not happen AFTER the Olympics.



kflo said:


> if we see a return to form wade, it's on clyde level.


That's a very big "if". And given Wade's injury history, I'd be suprised if he can come back and play at "Clyde level" for another decade - which is what it would take for his career totals to match Clyde's.

BNM


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## Spaceman Spiff (Aug 2, 2006)

TheATLien said:


> Has the 1996 team against 2008 been discussed?
> 
> PG: Gary Payton, John Stockton, Penny Hardaway
> SG: Reggie Miller, Mitch Richmond
> ...


It won't be pretty. That's a young Shaq, being very capable of putting up 40/15, along with 2 of the absolute best centers in their primes. They would demolish our already thin front line. Dwight Howard and Boozer won't even last 15min combined. Then that backcourt. Penny and Hill were players that come once a blue moon. Hill was a guy who once came a rebound and 2 assists shy of averaging a triple double. Penny was on his way to becoming his own legend. Miller and Richmond were snipers. Pippen and Payton won't even allow players into the lane for shots to get blocked.


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## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

Spaceman Spiff said:


> It won't be pretty. That's a young Shaq, being very capable of putting up 40/15, along with 2 of the absolute best centers in their primes. They would demolish our already thin front line. Dwight Howard and Boozer won't even last 15min combined. Then that backcourt. Penny and Hill were players that come once a blue moon. Hill was a guy who once came a rebound and 2 assists shy of averaging a triple double. Penny was on his way to becoming his own legend. Miller and Richmond were snipers. Pippen and Payton won't even allow players into the lane for shots to get blocked.


That team would have given Dream Team I a run for it's money, but still would have lost.


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## The Solution (Jan 2, 2008)

It could be very easy for me to say that 92 would destroy 08 or 08's young guys would just out hustle the 92 team. But I think in the end it would go down to Lebron James. Not to say that he's the best player mind you, because I still think Kobe Bryant is the best player in the world.


But who would be able to guard Lebron? I would put Charles Barkley on Lebron James. But Lebron would blow past Barkley, the game would be great though. Kobe vs Michael, Lebron meets Magic, Wade vs Clyde, Pippen vs Melo, Stockton and Jason Kidd head to head.

The game would be great and it would come down to the last quarter in which the 92 team's veteran know how would just overtake 08's team.


92 dream team 113-Olympic Team 102


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## blazerboy30 (Apr 30, 2003)

1992 Dream Team... and it isn't even close.

When watching videos of that 1992 Dream Team, it is amazing to watch their absolute ferociousness , aggressiveness, competiveness and basketball IQ... from every single player on the team (other than Laettner). 

The 2008 team wouldn't stand a chance dealing with those attributes even if they could match up skill-wise (which they definitely can not).


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## Air Jordan 23 (Dec 12, 2006)

The Solution said:


> It could be very easy for me to say that 92 would destroy 08 or 08's young guys would just out hustle the 92 team. But I think in the end it would go down to Lebron James. Not to say that he's the best player mind you, because I still think Kobe Bryant is the best player in the world.
> 
> 
> But who would be able to guard Lebron? I would put Charles Barkley on Lebron James. But Lebron would blow past Barkley, the game would be great though. Kobe vs Michael, Lebron meets Magic, Wade vs Clyde, Pippen vs Melo, Stockton and Jason Kidd head to head.
> ...



Lord, man, you guys give Lebron too much credit.

Think about this--the Dream Team blew out the competition without anyone of their stars having real big scoring games. I think MJ averaged less than 20ppg.

You think Lebron could outscore MJ? And if you want to say Kobe could go off, well so could Barkley and Malone. Who's gonna stop either one of them two from taking it to the hole? Hell, a few time Malone was runner-up to MJ for the scoring title.

Minus Kobe and Kidd, this is a team that got it's *** worked over by Greece.

Greece!?!

Oh, I think the 2008 team will win it all this year, but they'd get murdered by the Dream Team.


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## Seed (Jun 29, 2005)

Dream team and not even close, the only position that 08 has an adv. is SF. For all the people that say that 08 could score more or keep up, better go back and watch 80's and 90's basketball, where scoring was harder, defense was more aggresive, and refs let players play. 

Wade would get eaten up, Kobe might be able to hold his own and Redd would be dismantled, the PG position would be murdered by 92 and the frontline would be destroyed. Present basketball relies a lot of stealing through passing lanes, 90's style of defense was straight mugging the guy and the steal is a reward for it.


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## The Solution (Jan 2, 2008)

Air Jordan 23 said:


> Lord, man, you guys give Lebron too much credit.
> 
> Think about this--the Dream Team blew out the competition without anyone of their stars having real big scoring games. I think MJ averaged less than 20ppg.
> 
> ...



You Guys say like its just a matter of fact, also you should know i'm very tough on Lebron, so when you say I give him to much credit...its really I hardly give him any credit, you just need to look at it in USA play. Lebron would be the better player in the USA team. MJ would be on Kobe enough said.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

The Solution said:


> You Guys say like its just a matter of fact, also you should know i'm very tough on Lebron, so when you say I give him to much credit...its really I hardly give him any credit, you just need to look at it in USA play. Lebron would be the better player in the USA team. MJ would be on Kobe enough said.


Explain the whole MJ would be on Kobe there for LeBron would be the best player. Considering LeBron would have his hands full with Pippen on him with Malone/Robinson/Barkley/Ewing waiting in the paint. Kind of like how LeBron struggled with a KG in the paint with Perkins/PJ Brown/Big Baby/Powe and Posey guarding LeBron. I believe having Pippen/Jordan/Drexler swarming the passing lanes, playing great man to man lock down defense, then running LeBron into David Robinson/Charles Barkley/Karl Malone and Patrick Ewing would be a much more difficult defense to contend with.


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## The Solution (Jan 2, 2008)

23AJ said:


> Explain the whole MJ would be on Kobe there for LeBron would be the best player. Considering LeBron would have his hands full with Pippen on him with Malone/Robinson/Barkley/Ewing waiting in the paint. Kind of like how LeBron struggled with a KG in the paint with Perkins/PJ Brown/Big Baby/Powe and Posey guarding LeBron. I believe having Pippen/Jordan/Drexler swarming the passing lanes, playing great man to man lock down defense, then running LeBron into David Robinson/Charles Barkley/Karl Malone and Patrick Ewing would be a much more difficult defense to contend with.



I recall a time in the 91 playoffs when the bulls faced the Lakers, Pippen had to guard Magic when MJ was in foul trouble. Pippen did awsome at holding Magic so instead of MJ guarding magic the next game they made pippen do it. Pippen couldn't guard Magic Johnson who was on his last legs so to speak of his NBA career.

Pippen was a great defender but he would be to skinny to guard Lebron James, James would over power him. So they would put Barkley on Lebron or at least I would. Barkley being strong enough to handle Lebron, Lebron would just blow past him.

Then again I could be wrong, really its all assumption. You did post a great reasoning by saying that those Hall of Fame Big men would be blocking the paint, so you can take one out of the equation because one big man would need to worry about the man child Dwight Howard.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

The Solution said:


> I recall a time in the 91 playoffs when the bulls faced the Lakers, Pippen had to guard Magic when MJ was in foul trouble. Pippen did awsome at holding Magic so instead of MJ guarding magic the next game they made pippen do it. Pippen couldn't guard Magic Johnson who was on his last legs so to speak of his NBA career.
> 
> Pippen was a great defender but he would be to skinny to guard Lebron James, James would over power him. So they would put Barkley on Lebron or at least I would. Barkley being strong enough to handle Lebron, Lebron would just blow past him.
> 
> Then again I could be wrong, really its all assumption. You did post a great reasoning by saying that those Hall of Fame Big men would be blocking the paint, so you can take one out of the equation because one big man would need to worry about the man child Dwight Howard.


Kind of like James Posey is to skinny to guard LeBron James.....

Also LeBron wouldn't blow by Barkley by any stretch of the imagination, Barkley was still quick as a cat at this point in his career, and as powerful as LeBron.

Also Dwight Howard is overrated.

Sir Charles don't hate appreciate. Guy is a beast, and probably will start to be underrated as years go by, because people simply forget.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/LWUVLbVJVlw&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/LWUVLbVJVlw&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>


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## The Solution (Jan 2, 2008)

23AJ said:


> Kind of like James Posey is to skinny to guard LeBron James.....
> 
> Also LeBron wouldn't blow by Barkley by any stretch of the imagination, Barkley was still quick as a cat at this point in his career, and as powerful as LeBron.
> 
> ...



your right, I should of put Pippen is just not Strong enough to guard Lebron James. Cause James Posey is simply put a beast in a SF/SG body. Also Dwight Howard is overrated but he's a big body that if open can dunk on ANYBODY.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

23AJ said:


> Kind of like James Posey is to skinny to guard LeBron James.....


He is. If the Celtics weren't shifting their entire defense at Lebron, Posey would have been lit up. You can't shift your whole defense at Lebron in a national team setting, which means Barkley would have to guard Lebron alone on an island. And I love Chuck, but that's not happening. Lebron's as quick as Jordan was in 92, and stronger than Barkley ever was, along with being 5 inches taller. Probably the worst bit of that business though is the other end. Sir Charles was the heart and soul of that dream team, and in most people's eyes the best player during that olympics. However, a guy like Lebron would have given him nightmares defensively, with his length, strength, and quickness. And when Barkley ever got by Lebron, Lebron would just roof him at the basket. 

To that end, I wonder how Kobe's length would bother Jordan.

I still think this matchup would be decided on Howard getting in foul trouble, and Team USA not having a good backup option. Bosh is the weak link on this team, it's a shame Oden wasn't ready, because they really needed a real back up center.

Also Barkley was a badass. People do forget. I think he was better than Malone. And I usually rank him as the second best PF behind Duncan.

Which incidentally, if the 08 team swapped Bosh with Duncan, then we'd really be talking here about a serious matchup.


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## NewAgeBaller (Jan 8, 2007)

futuristxen said:


> Lebron's as quick as Jordan was in 92, and stronger than Barkley ever was, along with being 5 inches taller.


Barkley seems to keep getting smaller.. Is he 6'3" now..?


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

futuristxen said:


> He is. If the Celtics weren't shifting their entire defense at Lebron, Posey would have been lit up. You can't shift your whole defense at Lebron in a national team setting, which means Barkley would have to guard Lebron alone on an island. And I love Chuck, but that's not happening. Lebron's as quick as Jordan was in 92, and stronger than Barkley ever was, along with being 5 inches taller. Probably the worst bit of that business though is the other end. Sir Charles was the heart and soul of that dream team, and in most people's eyes the best player during that olympics. However, a guy like Lebron would have given him nightmares defensively, with his length, strength, and quickness. And when Barkley ever got by Lebron, Lebron would just roof him at the basket.
> 
> To that end, I wonder how Kobe's length would bother Jordan.
> 
> ...


Right on cue, the overrating of LeBron and underrating of Charles Barkely. That didn't take long at all. And this national team isn't some kind of lights out shooting team by any means. You really are lost in your mind, when you believe that the dream team doesn't know how to play great team defense when looking at the calibers of defenders this team has and the merit of their accomplishments defensively. 

However here is your great Olympic team that you believe would give the dream team such issues. After all Greece beat team USA by six points in 2006, and Greece has nobody in the same caliber as the Dream Team.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/cpj1eMYC8kE&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/cpj1eMYC8kE&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

futuristxen said:


> He is. If the Celtics weren't shifting their entire defense at Lebron, Posey would have been lit up. You can't shift your whole defense at Lebron in a national team setting, which means Barkley would have to guard Lebron alone on an island. And I love Chuck, but that's not happening. Lebron's as quick as Jordan was in 92, and stronger than Barkley ever was, along with being 5 inches taller. Probably the worst bit of that business though is the other end. Sir Charles was the heart and soul of that dream team, and in most people's eyes the best player during that olympics. However, a guy like Lebron would have given him nightmares defensively, with his length, strength, and quickness. And when Barkley ever got by Lebron, Lebron would just roof him at the basket.


Why would Chuck be playing SF? Or would Lebron be playing PF?
IMHO, wether it's Pippen or other guarding Lebron, you sag off him and wait for him to drive against a Karl Malone/David Dobinson frontcourt. That would be interesting to see... 



> To that end, I wonder how Kobe's length would bother Jordan.


It would be another interesting match-up to see... And although i'm one of they guys who don't think both players aren't in the same league, MJ was more savyy and the better catch-and-shoot player. We would probably see MJ beneffiting from a bunch of Karl or Chuck picks to get open shots.



> *I still think this matchup would be decided on Howard getting in foul trouble, and Team USA not having a good backup option*. Bosh is the weak link on this team, it's a shame Oden wasn't ready, because they really needed a real back up center.


Eventhough one could say that Team 2008 has the edge on the perimeter positions, you are stretching, Future... IMHO, the Original Dream Team has a BIG advantage on the frontcourt both on offense AND defense. Couple that with also having 2 of the best perimeter defenders ever and the 2 greatest passing PGs and i just don't see how Team 2008 can step up. 



> Also Barkley was a badass. People do forget. I think he was better than Malone. And I usually rank him as the second best PF behind Duncan.


Not only Chuck was a bad-***, he was a smart player and could (and did) play the team game at ease... And IMHO there's another big edge to the Original Dream Team: not only they were all great players (except for Laeetner, off course), they were also players that would mesh very well. 



> Which incidentally, if the 08 team swapped Bosh with Duncan, then we'd really be talking here about a serious matchup.


No doubt. But if we are playing that game, one should consider that the Original Dream team could have been reinforced by others replacing Bird (who was in just for popularity reasons) and Laettner (the Token College Player)...


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## P-Rez25 (Nov 24, 2006)

what??? this shouldnt even be considered unless the '08 team goes and blows everyone else out by 50+. when that happens then we can compare:

The 1992 Dream Team's Olympic Summary
Team USA cruised through its qualifying round with a 6-0 record. The team then took on Angola in the opening game of the Olympic competition. Barkley had 24 points in a team USA *116-48 *romp. *The Dream Team next took on a talented Croatia team and beat them soundly by 33 points*, led by Jordan's 21. The United States team then defeated Germany (with later NBA All Star Detlef Schrempf and Uwe Blab) behind Larry Bird's 19 points and Karl Malone's 18. In the next game, seven USA players scored in double digits and Barkley set the new single game Team USA scoring record with 30 points in a *127-83 *rout of Brazil. Team USA then closed out pool play with a resounding *122-81 *drubbing of Spain.

In the quarter finals, Mullin scored a team high 21 points as the Dream Team scored a *115-77 *victory over Puerto Rico. Team USA rolled on in the semis with a *51 point win *over Lithuania (with then-current NBA player Šarūnas Marčiulionis and later NBA player Arvydas Sabonis). Nine US players scored in double figures. Jordan led the way in the gold medal game against Croatia (with five current or future NBA players in Dražen Petrović, Toni Kukoč, Dino Radja, Stojko Vranković, and Žan Tabak), scoring 22 points. Patrick Ewing had 15. Barkley had 17. The final game was the closest of the entire Olympics, with the *Dream Team winning by 32 points in a 117-85 blowout *to take the gold. The high point for Croatia was a brief 25-23 lead.

Barkley led the star-studded squad in scoring (with an average of 18.0 points per game and a field goal percentage of 71.1%)[8] followed by Mullin, who was also the second-leading scorer for the 1984 Olympic team. *The Dream Team won the Olympic basketball tournament with an average margin of victory of 43.8 points and without coach Chuck Daly ever using a timeout*.

do that and come talk to me


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## P-Rez25 (Nov 24, 2006)

myst said:


> I didn't pick the Olympic team.
> 
> 
> And remember people, this isn't these players in their primes, it's that team in that one summer.
> ...


your right about that but the original team had Jordan and in the end age really dont matter considering that MJ was still winning rings well past 30. if you brought up age then you also gotta bring up experience which the playoff pedrigree of this years team looks lame in comparison.


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## King George (Jun 21, 2003)

P-Rez25 said:


> what??? this shouldnt even be considered unless the '08 team goes and blows everyone else out by 50+. when that happens then we can compare:
> 
> The 1992 Dream Team's Olympic Summary
> Team USA cruised through its qualifying round with a 6-0 record. The team then took on Angola in the opening game of the Olympic competition. Barkley had 24 points in a team USA *116-48 *romp. *The Dream Team next took on a talented Croatia team and beat them soundly by 33 points*, led by Jordan's 21. The United States team then defeated Germany (with later NBA All Star Detlef Schrempf and Uwe Blab) behind Larry Bird's 19 points and Karl Malone's 18. In the next game, seven USA players scored in double digits and Barkley set the new single game Team USA scoring record with 30 points in a *127-83 *rout of Brazil. Team USA then closed out pool play with a resounding *122-81 *drubbing of Spain.
> ...


other teams have gotten better and the awe factor has been removed. But none of that has anything to do with 2008 beating the Dream Team


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## King George (Jun 21, 2003)

P-Rez25 said:


> your right about that but the original team had Jordan and in the end age really dont matter considering that MJ was still winning rings well past 30. if you brought up age then you also gotta bring up experience which the playoff pedrigree of this years team looks lame in comparison.


I don't see what age has to do with anything or with the so called prime. I personally think Team USA would win because of theri low post presence, the NBA is lacking quality bigs right now. If if turned into a track meet. 2008 would run them out of the building.


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## P-Rez25 (Nov 24, 2006)

King George said:


> I don't see what age has to do with anything or with the so called prime. I personally think Team USA would win because of theri low post presence, the NBA is lacking quality bigs right now. *If if turned into a track meet. 2008 would run them out of the building*.





23AJ said:


> 1992 Dream Team would hammer the 08 team. The 92 team had arguably the greatest player ever in Jordan who was in his prime. Who's as athletic, has probably the best hands, and is x 10 the defender than anyone the 08 team has to offer. Than you have fundamentals from the superstars down to the guy's that execute to perfection ala Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, and John Stockton. They can make every easy pass, and every behind the back no look pass all day long. These guys had eyes behind their heads long before the Jason Kidd commercial. Than you have the trash talker, the guy that's going to punch your best players in the mouth when they think they can pop off after a nice play, that would be Charles Barkley, he's going to fight, rebound, and score in the paint. He's a force and a loose cannon. So you have your defenders in the paint, and on the wings in Pippen/Jordan/Drexler and in the paint Ewing/Robinson and Malone. All can score, are all big enough to dominate any one that the 08 team tries to throw at them. The 2008 team would be overwhelmed by the starters and dazed by the bench, and then when it came to winning time a guy Like Michael Jordan would use those hands from god to squeeze the life out of players like LeBron and Kobe at the end of the game. Enjoy the vids. Good topic by the way.
> 
> <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/C8-jiOcv-Vg&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/C8-jiOcv-Vg&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
> 
> <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/YT9P_OY5bpc&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/YT9P_OY5bpc&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>


in a trackmeet the 2008 team wins? better watch that these videos


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## P-Rez25 (Nov 24, 2006)

King George said:


> other teams have gotten better and the awe factor has been removed. But none of that has anything to do with 2008 beating the Dream Team


it dont, im just showing you how domiant that team was but if your gonna compare the 2 teams obviously stats would be the best measuring stick. i find it hard to believe that people actually think that the 2008 team which hasnt accomplished nothing can compare to a team that won games by beating everyone to sleep and featured 2 of the greatest PGs, the GOAT, the best SF, and an imposing frontline that had Barkely and Malone 2 of the best PFs that have ever played the game. for every person that uses the this "2008 team has played together for 3 years", they seem to forget how they close the games where in 2006. youd be better off comparing 2008 to the 1996 team.


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## King George (Jun 21, 2003)

P-Rez25 said:


> in a trackmeet the 2008 team wins? better watch that these videos


2008 would run them out the building. Believe it!


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

King George said:


> 2008 would run them out the building. Believe it!


Based on what ? After all we saw how well pretty much the same team ran Greece out the building.


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

King George said:


> 2008 would run them out the building. Believe it!


Huh? Are you forgetting that the Dream Team had guys like MJ, Drexler and Pippen, who could run all day, and probably the 2 fastest PF and C ever in Karl Malone and David Dobinson?


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## Najee (Apr 5, 2007)

King George said:


> 2008 would run them out the building. Believe it!


You can't be serious here. The '92 Olympic team had:

* arguably the two best point guards in NBA history in terms of pushing the ball upcourt and finding the open man (Magic Johnson and John Stockton).

* shooting guards (Clyde Drexler and Michael Jordan) and small forwards (Scottie Pippen) who were devastating finishers. 

* arguably the two best power forwards in terms of filling the lanes in transition (Charles Barkley and Karl Malone).

* and, IMO, the most athletic, open-floor center in NBA history (David Robinson).

That's not even counting Chris Mullin, a crafty transition player who had good court awareness and passing skills (like a mini-Larry Bird, who was still effective whenever his balky back wasn't acting up). And Patrick Ewing, who like Malone was a strong defensive rebounder who can start the break with an outlet pass to Magic, Stockton, Jordan, Pippen and Drexler.


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## Najee (Apr 5, 2007)

And as for the silly remark about the '92 team being "too old," this has to be taken with a grain of salt because you have to look at the ages of the people saying it. 

To most of these people, when you're 17 and 18 years old, 25 is considered "old." When you're 22, 30 is considered "old." In this case, you're talking about people who have never lived on their own and paid bills, of course they are going to consider them "old." IMO, that's noise (especially when you consider the bulk of the '92 team was in its prime).


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

the Olympic team would beat the hell out of them.Barkley must weigh close to 400 pounds now...Jordan was pretty mediocre when he was with the Wizards.He hasn't gotten any better at 45.Aside from Malone the rest of those guys have been retired for a decade.Those guys should probably stick to pick up games in the driveway with the kids.


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## King George (Jun 21, 2003)

PauloCatarino said:


> Huh? Are you forgetting that the Dream Team had guys like MJ, Drexler and Pippen, who could run all day, and probably the 2 fastest PF and C ever in Karl Malone and David Dobinson?


Doesn't matter. 2008 would run them out of the building. All those silly passes would be stolen and ran back before '92 could react.


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## King George (Jun 21, 2003)

23AJ said:


> Based on what ? After all we saw how well pretty much the same team ran Greece out the building.


i don't believe they were running.


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

King George said:


> Doesn't matter. 2008 would run them out of the building. All those silly passes would be stolen and ran back before '92 could react.


Oh, i see... You're just talking crap. Sorry for not realizing sooner...


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## King George (Jun 21, 2003)

PauloCatarino said:


> Oh, i see... You're just talking crap. Sorry for not realizing sooner...


I'm serious. People want to argue Jordan, Pippen, Drexler are fast, ok sure, but they never had to play against players like LeBron, Kobe, Chris Paul, Dwyane Wade, Howard, etc. They would be in trouble. I know you people love the old timers but they are just that old timers and the players of 2day are better w/the exception of C and PF


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

King George said:


> I'm serious. People want to argue Jordan, Pippen, Drexler are fast, ok sure, but they never had to play against players like LeBron, Kobe, Chris Paul, Dwyane Wade, Howard, etc. They would be in trouble. I know you people love the old timers but they are just that old timers and the players of 2day are better w/the exception of C and PF


lol.

Now i KNOW you don't know what you are talking about... What's the problem, young grasshopper, having a hard time getting games from the early 90's?


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## Najee (Apr 5, 2007)

King George said:


> I'm serious. People want to argue Jordan, Pippen, Drexler are fast, ok sure, but they never had to play against players like LeBron, Kobe, Chris Paul, Dwyane Wade, Howard, etc. They would be in trouble. I know you people love the old timers but they are just that old timers and the players of 2day are better w/the exception of C and PF


This is silly. It's not like the players in the '90s are physically inferior to the players in today's NBA. You're acting like there is a demonstrably large difference when there isn't. It's particularly laughable when today's NBA is played at a slower pace than the NBA in the early 1990s, so I'm failing to see how today's players are going to have a better transition game.


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## unluckyseventeen (Feb 5, 2006)

I've boiled down to whoever is arguing that the 2008 team is better than the '92 team just being a "live in the moment" sports fan. The '92 team is probably the best team ever assembled in any team sport, ever.

Most of the players on the 2008 team still have some major weaknesses to their game. Carmelo has always been known to give a sub-par effort and has never been a devoted defender. LeBron can't shoot worth a damn and I'd like to see him with Jordan or Pippen guarding him and then him being expected to score with Malone, Robinson and Ewing lurking in the paint. If Boston shut LeBron down and if Boston shut Kobe down, the Dream Team would no doubt do it. On top of that, Wade is a mediocre perimiter player and relies heavily on getting to the rim - someting that, again, would be extremely difficult considering the defensive prowess of the '92 team. Kidd is not even close to what he used to be and can't shoot. Howard is already dreadfully inconsistent. Boozer is one of the worst interior defenders that I've ever seen and has been proven to be shut down when put against a stronger or taller defender. Williams and Paul are young and still relatively inexperienced (and honestly two of the more complete players on the team along with Kobe)... there's so many problems I can already see with the 2008 team - I'm not even sure they'll win gold, much less being better than the best basketball team of all time.

And besides, most of the guys on team USA have already lost to international teams, and teams that key in on team strategy rather than a bunch of athletes running the floor and dunking. There's no way you can possibly believe the 2008 team is the best basketball team of all-time, unless you're - as I said - a "live in the moment" sports fan. The 2008 team is better than the 2004 and 2000 teams, for sure. But better than the 92 team? No way. I'll be surprised if the US ever fields a team as legendary and talented as the 92 team, ever again.


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## King George (Jun 21, 2003)

Najee said:


> This is silly. It's not like the players in the '90s are physically inferior to the players in today's NBA. You're acting like there is a demonstrably large difference when there isn't. It's particularly laughable when today's NBA is played at a slower pace than the NBA in the early 1990s, so I'm failing to see how today's players are going to have a better transition game.


Players today are just faster and more athletic. Thats translate well in a fast paced offense. You say pace is slowed down, yet players still get their numbers.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

King George said:


> i don't believe they were running.


Nope, they were running, even pushed a nice lead out early in the game, however they went cold, because there isn't any consistent shooters on team USA. Still a major weakness on the Mens olympic basketball team. Also there is no really good defenders, so Greece were able to walk their way to the hoop and shoot uncontested jump shots over team USA going on to handily beating them. Not a lot has changed since that team lost. Kobe and Kidd definitely helps, but were talking about the greatest basketball team ever assembled not some team like Greece who is inferior every position to the Dream Team. But yeah dude your right on point, when you make claim that team 08 would run the dream team out the building and beat them in a game, wink wink nod nod.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

King George said:


> *Players today are just faster and more athletic*. Thats translate well in a fast paced offense. You say pace is slowed down, yet players still get their numbers.


They just are. That's all the merit to your opinion ?...this is getting comical.


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## unluckyseventeen (Feb 5, 2006)

King George said:


> Players today are just faster and more athletic. Thats translate well in a fast paced offense. You say pace is slowed down, yet players still get their numbers.


So, is this how Phoenix won their NBA titles?


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

unluckyseventeen said:


> So, is this how Phoenix won their NBA titles?


... And the reason James White is an NBA superstar!


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

King George said:


> Players today are just faster and more athletic. Thats translate well in a fast paced offense. You say pace is slowed down, yet players still get their numbers.


Also keep in mind, were not comparing eras here as a whole league, were comparing eras of the very best against the very best. There for the whole athlete is stronger/faster argument can get thrown out the window. Because since the 60s mind you, the very elite NBA athletes from the 60s on up to today are all very comparable and there is not a large gap between the athletes in speed and strength. Unfortunately the one thing that has been lost through out the years is tough defense, fundamentals, and over all understanding of the game.


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## King George (Jun 21, 2003)

23AJ said:


> Also keep in mind, were not comparing eras here as a whole league, were comparing eras of the very best against the very best. There for the whole athlete is stronger/faster argument can get thrown out the window. Because since the 60s mind you, the very elite NBA athletes from the 60s on up to today are all very comparable and there is not a large gap between the athletes in speed and strength. Unfortunately the one thing that has been lost through out the years is tough defense, fundamentals, and over all understanding of the game.


You have to compare eras, even at the best of teh best you are only the best of teh best because of the era you play in. Honestly there is not a single player with a more impressive statistical resume than Wilt Chamberlain. oscar Robertson is another great stat guy, yet all we hear about is players of the 80's/90's being the best ever. It's like no one gives those players any respect. Players of teh 80's and 90's are greatly overarted while players of other eras including players of today are greatly underrated


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## Najee (Apr 5, 2007)

Please tell us how Michael Jordan, Charles Barkley, Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Karl Malone, John Stockton, Patrick Ewing, David Robinson and Clyde Drexler are overrated.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Najee said:


> Please tell us how Michael Jordan, Charles Barkley, Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Karl Malone, John Stockton, Patrick Ewing, David Robinson and Clyde Drexler are overrated.


Larry Bird and Magic were not in their primes during the Olympics. Bird had his bad back, and Magic was out of shape from the lay off. They were more or less cheerleaders for a lot of games. I would say the core of that team was Barkley, Jordan, and Pippen. I don't remember Stockton doing incredible. Drexler had a few good moments for the team.

But some respect should also be due to Chuck Daly, who may have been the greatest Dream Team coach of all-time. Has there been a better manager of egos and talent for the USA men's team? I don't think so. I don't believe he called a single timeout the entire time.


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## Najee (Apr 5, 2007)

The question was pertaining to King George's statement that the '80s and '90s players are overrated by people. He wasn't talking about Larry Bird and Magic Johnson in terms of the '92 Olympics; he was talking about all of them for their careers.


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## King George (Jun 21, 2003)

Najee said:


> Please tell us how Michael Jordan, Charles Barkley, Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Karl Malone, John Stockton, Patrick Ewing, David Robinson and Clyde Drexler are overrated.


They are overrated in the sense you people make them seem unbeatable. Nobody is saying they aren't great, but to sit here and pretend a team of todays players couldn't hang with them is ridiculous and even more ridiculous when you use the olympics as your guage.


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## King George (Jun 21, 2003)

Najee said:


> The question was pertaining to King George's statement that the '80s and '90s players are overrated by people. He wasn't talking about Larry Bird and Magic Johnson in terms of the '92 Olympics; he was talking about all of them for their careers.


They are overrated, it's not a knock on their greatness at all, but when you try to discredit every player before them and after them you are being ridiculous.


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## Najee (Apr 5, 2007)

King George said:


> They are overrated in the sense you people make them seem unbeatable. Nobody is saying they aren't great, but to sit here and pretend a team of todays players couldn't hang with them is ridiculous and even more ridiculous when you use the olympics as your guage.


1.) We haven't seen how the 2008 Olympic will play together, so it's a little silly to presume they would play well together at all.

2.) We have seen the '92 Olympic play together.

3.) You're the one with the unfounded notion that players today are supposedly so physically and athletically superior when in reality there is no difference between players now and players in the '90s.

Individually, we've seen the members of the '08 team play and the team has weaknesses (lack of size, a team with few strong individual defenders).



King George said:


> They are overrated, it's not a knock on their greatness at all, but when you try to discredit every player before them and after them you are being ridiculous.


No one is trying to discredit any other players. This is a pick-'em thread comparing two teams, so one team is going to be chosen. That doesn't mean people are saying the '08 team is garbage (in fact, we haven't even seen them play together). But it's silly for you to call the '92 Olympic team overrated -- especially if you saw them play.


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## King George (Jun 21, 2003)

Najee said:


> 1.) We haven't seen how the 2008 Olympic will play together, so it's a little silly to presume they would play well together at all.
> 
> 2.) We have seen the '92 Olympic play together.
> 
> ...


1. It's silly to assume that team 2008 can play well together, but it's not silly to assume The Dream Team would stomp on Team USA '08? 

2. Yeah, but not against top notch opponents. The world has gotten better whether you choose to admit it or not and they aren't star struck anymore either. 

3. Most certainly is. Jordan was unique in the 80's and 90's. Today everybody can do what he did.


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## King George (Jun 21, 2003)

Yeah, it's silly to call a bunch of All-Stars playing against a CBA team overrated. That's pretty much what '92 was like.


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## Najee (Apr 5, 2007)

King George said:


> 1. It's silly to assume that team 2008 can play well together, but it's not silly to assume The Dream Team would stomp on Team USA '08?
> 
> 2. Yeah, but not against top notch opponents. The world has gotten better whether you choose to admit it or not and they aren't star struck anymore either.
> 
> 3. Most certainly is. Jordan was unique in the 80's and 90's. Today everybody can do what he did.


1.) The hypotheticals are based on the known, and what we do know is the '08 Olympic team has only limited size, is not a particularly strong defensive team and even its top players have certain weaknesses. Unless all of sudden a raw Dwight Howard and a defensive-poor Carlos Boozer is better than having Charles Barkley, Karl Malone, Patrick Ewing and David Robinson, I would say that is a sizable mismatch.

2.) The world has gotten better, but the vast majority of the world's players still couldn't cut it in the NBA.

3.) No, the average NBA player today sure as hell isn't a better player than Michael Jordan or any other Dream Team member. There is no difference physically between players today and players in the '90s. Unless you have a time machine and/or can actually PROVE your unfounded statements then you're making yourself look silly.


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## King George (Jun 21, 2003)

Najee said:


> 1.) The hypotheticals are based on the known, and what we do know is the '08 Olympic team has only limited size, is not a particularly strong defensive team and even its top players have certain weaknesses. Unless all of sudden a raw Dwight Howard and a defensive-poor Carlos Boozer is better than having Charles Barkley, Karl Malone, Patrick Ewing and David Robinson, I would say that is a sizable mismatch.
> 
> 2.) The world has gotten better, but the vast majority of the world's players still couldn't cut it in the NBA.
> 
> 3.) No, the average NBA player today sure as hell isn't a better player than Michael Jordan or any other Dream Team member. There is no difference physically between players today and players in the '90s. Unless you have a time machine and/or can actually PROVE your unfounded statements then you're making yourself look silly.


1. The knowns are useless though. When did Charles Barkley and Karl Malone become defensive wizards? 

2. Doesn't matter. The world has gotten better and that makes the margin of defeat smaller and the chances of losing greater.

3. I didn't say anything about teh average player. i just said Jordan's uniqueness isn't so unique anymore. Players are bigger and stronger just look at the videos u love to look at all thos players looke like string beans.


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## Najee (Apr 5, 2007)

King George said:


> 1. The knowns are useless though. When did Charles Barkley and Karl Malone become defensive wizards?
> 
> 2. Doesn't matter. The world has gotten better and that makes the margin of defeat smaller and the chances of losing greater.
> 
> 3. I didn't say anything about teh average player. i just said Jordan's uniqueness isn't so unique anymore. Players are bigger and stronger just look at the videos u love to look at all thos players looke like string beans.


1.) You evidently didn't follow Karl Malone's career; he was regarded as a good defender for the majority of his career. Charles Barkley was a physical interior player who was stronger and would bully around a player like Carlos Boozer (a reputed soft player). David Robinson was an elite defender and Patrick Ewing was a very good shot-blocker and interior defender.

The '08 team simply doesn't have the size or the offensive firepower in the interior to match up with the '92 team. No one in their right mind is going to take Boozer and Howard over those four. The biggest problem for the '08 team is the best U.S. big men (Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett, Amare Stoudemire) are sitting at home and the NBA's best center (Yao Ming) is playing for his home country.

2.) Actually, it's irrelevant to this comparison.

3.) Michael Jordan weighed more than 200 lbs. Clyde Drexler was 6-foot-7, about 230 lbs. Barkley was towing about 260 lbs. on a 6-5 frame. Malone was massive. Not to mention their athletic ability was comparable to today's NBA players.

I'm sure the next thing you will be saying that Jordan would have been shut down had he been guarded by James Posey.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

George your just not making any sense. You use one set of facts to argue one point, but than use another set of facts that contradicts your earlier points in this debate.

For example you said... That team USA 08 is stronger faster etc and better than the overrated dream team.

Yet you then elude to how the world has gotten better there for Team USA 08 isn't going to be dominate, and win by a huge scores like the original dream team. Do you see my point here George ? If the 08 Mens basketball players are really better than the original dream team, are stronger, and faster, shouldn't all of that still put them heads and shoulders over the rest of the world in terms of dominating the world in basketball ?

Because you did say earlier, you have to compare eras to eras , and if that's the case going by your own measure, the Dream Team is not only better than the previous Mens olympic teams and most likely the 08 team, but are 10x better since they ripped apart their peers around the world. And of course did all this while being weaker/slower/and not as good as the 08 team.


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## Najee (Apr 5, 2007)

The biggest issues for the '08 team -- in the Olympics and this hypothetical match-up -- are the lack of firepower and depth along its interior, team and individual defense and outside shooting. Michael Redd was added to the squad because he's the only consistent long-range shooter; while he's a good player, Redd is not considered to be one of the very best players in the NBA.

The '92 team theoretically could play a zone defense all game and dare the '08 team to beat them from the perimeter. Packing it in also would allow them to funnel Kobe Bryant and LeBron James into the lane where Charles Barkley, Karl Malone, David Robinson and Patrick Ewing could lay some lumber on them. Dwight Howard and Carlos Boozer would be negated and they certainly can't stop that group on the inside.

I'm not going to say the '92 would beat this team by 100 points or anything, but this would be a 15-point victory. Bryant and James are great players and no one is refuting that, but the '08 badly would miss Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett and Amare Stoudemire in this matchup (and possibly the Olympics). if the '08 team had them and possibly convince Yao Ming to become a U.S. citizen, it would be very close.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

Najee said:


> The biggest issues for the '08 team -- in the Olympics and this hypothetical match-up -- are the lack of firepower and depth along its interior, team and individual defense and outside shooting. Michael Redd was added to the squad because he's the only consistent long-range shooter; while he's a good player, Redd is not considered to be one of the very best players in the NBA.
> 
> The '92 team theoretically could play a zone defense all game and dare the '08 team to beat them from the perimeter. Packing it in also would allow them to funnel Kobe Bryant and LeBron James into the lane where Charles Barkley, Karl Malone, David Robinson and Patrick Ewing could lay some lumber on them. Dwight Howard and Carlos Boozer would be negated and they certainly can't stop that group on the inside.
> 
> I'm not going to say the '92 would beat this team by 100 points or anything, but this would be a 15-point victory. Bryant and James are great players and no one is refuting that, but the '08 badly would miss Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett and Amare Stoudemire in this matchup (and possibly the Olympics). if the '08 team had them and possibly convince Yao Ming to become a U.S. citizen, it would be very close.


the '92 had similar issues from the outside. with the exception of mullin and bird. and bird didn't play big minutes, and mullin was never a bulk 3 point shooter (and frankly wasn't that consistent with it until later in his career). 

the '92 team's top 4 interior players were probably the 4 top interior players between the 2 teams. but (primarily) only 2 play at a time, and the way the '92 team played wasn't that much of an inside out game. they got a ton of transition points. 

it would be interesting to see how the '92 team responds to a team they can't run out of the building. a team that can pressure them (with stockton hurt and magic somewhat limited), and a team with a pg who protects the ball (paul). the frontcourt advantage is a big one, but it would be interesting to see the commitment to exploit it in a slower paced real game. 

'92 has a clear advantage overall. stack the current team with the bigs not playing and it's a good matchup.

and again, we're looking back at one team, the other still has memories to make. some of the current guys win some titles and we look back at their careers differently and look back at this matchup differently. '92 was pretty unique in how alot of those guys were at their peaks at the same time. that '84/'85 draft bonanaza. chuck was one of the last cuts on the '84 olympic team.


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## unluckyseventeen (Feb 5, 2006)

George, I think it's pretty nonsensical of you to claim how overrated players from the '92 team are, and yet you haven't acknowledged the plethora of weaknesses in individual players on the 2008 team. Malone, Barkley and Robinson would abuse Boozer, Howard and whoever else they threw at them.


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## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

King George said:


> They are overrated in the sense you people make them seem unbeatable. Nobody is saying they aren't great, but to sit here and pretend a team of todays players couldn't hang with them is ridiculous and even more ridiculous when you use the olympics as your guage.


They partied until 6am the night before a 12pm game and STILL won by 60points. For them it was non-stop partying. They didn't know anything about the dudes they were playing, they didn't practice, they just showed up and beat them down. This team isn't anywhere near as badass as the Dream Team. We have to go to extremes and say that there is no chance in hell because there are people who say 2008 WOULD have beaten them! The truth is that 1992 was the better team and would beat 2008 as it is currently constructed because 2008 doesn't have ALL of the best players in the league on it like 1992 did. If 2008 had KG, Duncan, and STAT, then yeah, they could give them a run and may even win. However, not as it is constructed.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

2008 team is incredibly weak upfront
Boozer, Bosh and Howard upfront?? vs Barkley, Malone, Robinson, and Ewing. Only Howard would have had a shot to make that 1992 team


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## Air Jordan 23 (Dec 12, 2006)

IceMan23and3 said:


> They partied until 6am the night before a 12pm game and STILL won by 60points. For them it was non-stop partying. They didn't know anything about the dudes they were playing, they didn't practice, they just showed up and beat them down. This team isn't anywhere near as badass as the Dream Team. We have to go to extremes and say that there is no chance in hell because there are people who say 2008 WOULD have beaten them! The truth is that 1992 was the better team and would beat 2008 as it is currently constructed because 2008 doesn't have ALL of the best players in the league on it like 1992 did. If 2008 had KG, Duncan, and STAT, then yeah, they could give them a run and may even win. However, not as it is constructed.



Man, you're more optimistic than me, because even if all the best players today were on the 2008 team, they'd still have no shot at the Dream Team. Garnett and Duncan will only make the defeat slightly less embarrassing.


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## King George (Jun 21, 2003)

23AJ said:


> George your just not making any sense. You use one set of facts to argue one point, but than use another set of facts that contradicts your earlier points in this debate.
> 
> For example you said... That team USA 08 is stronger faster etc and better than the overrated dream team.
> 
> ...


All my points stand. You people are just ****riders. The World has gotten better. What happened in the '92 Olympics has absolutely nothing to do with what happened in any other Olympics. And it's totally disrespectful to try and compare Team 2008 to any of those crappy '92 teams Team USA faced. Team 2008 would beat the Original Dream Team.


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## Najee (Apr 5, 2007)

kflo said:


> the '92 had similar issues from the outside. with the exception of mullin and bird. and bird didn't play big minutes, and mullin was never a bulk 3 point shooter (and frankly wasn't that consistent with it until later in his career).


True, I remember that being somewhat of a pointed-out weakness when the '92 team was assembled. But in this matchup, I can see it being more problematic for the '08 team because arguably its four best players (Carmelo Anthony, Kobe Bryant, LeBron James and Dwyane Wade) play a similar, pound-it, drive-in-the-lane game. Along with a clearly inferior frontline, the '92 team really can pack it in and nearly force Michael Redd to win it by himself.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Najee said:


> True, I remember that being somewhat of a pointed-out weakness when the '92 team was assembled. But in this matchup, I can see it being more problematic for the '08 team because arguably its four best players (Carmelo Anthony, Kobe Bryant, LeBron James and Dwyane Wade) play a similar, pound-it, drive-in-the-lane game. Along with a clearly inferior frontline, the '92 team really can pack it in and nearly force Michael Redd to win it by himself.


Who knows if this logic applies with international rules. Anthony for example who is a so so 3 point shooter with the NBA 3 point line becomes quite accurate fromt he shorter international line.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

I think the 4/5 combo of Bosh and Howard is also being underrated here. Bosh is one of the best power forwards in the world and Howard is the most dominant big man in the world right now.


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## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

SkywalkerAC said:


> I think the 4/5 combo of Bosh and Howard is also being underrated here. Bosh is one of the best power forwards in the world and Howard is the most dominant big man in the world right now.


Howard isn't the most dominant big man in the world. In international play he is the most physically imposing. He always is in foul trouble though. hardly what I would call dominant.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

SkywalkerAC said:


> I think the 4/5 combo of Bosh and Howard is also being underrated here. Bosh is one of the best power forwards in the world and Howard is the most dominant big man in the world right now.


Huh??
If you had to rank the players based on there ability in there respective Olympic year it would go something like this:
1) Barkley
2) Malone
3) Robinson
4) Howard
5) Ewing
6) Bosh
7) Boozer

You could quibble with a player ranking but pretty much the top half is filled with players from 92

Now instead of Howard, Bosh, and Boozer one went with Howard, KG, and Duncan the 2008 team vs 1992 then would become very interesting.


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## Jordan23Forever (May 14, 2005)

futuristxen said:


> To that end, I wonder how Kobe's length would bother Jordan.


:lol:

How did Kobe's length bother Pierce and Ray Allen?


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## Jordan23Forever (May 14, 2005)

King George said:


> Jordan was unique in the 80's and 90's. Today everybody can do what he did.


:lol:

Wow...grab a clue, kid.


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## P-Rez25 (Nov 24, 2006)

Najee said:


> Please tell us how Michael Jordan, Charles Barkley, Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Karl Malone, John Stockton, Patrick Ewing, David Robinson and Clyde Drexler are overrated.


and thats just the original Dream Team, lets not forget about Isaiah Thomas, James Worthy, Kevin McHale, Hakeem Olajuwon, Dominique Wilkins.....


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## Sunsfan81 (Apr 17, 2006)

Wow this isn't even debatable. The 1992 team would mop the floor with the 08 team. Jordan, Magic, and Bird - those are three of the top seven players of all time on the same team, plus seven more Hall of Famers. That team was the best ever assembled. It totally destroyed its competition unlike the recent Olympic teams of NBA All-Stars which have been getting embarrassed by less talented teams from around the world.


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## Sunsfan81 (Apr 17, 2006)

King George said:


> 3. Most certainly is. Jordan was unique in the 80's and 90's. Today everybody can do what he did.


That has to be the dumbest statement ever written on this site.


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Najee said:


> True, I remember that being somewhat of a pointed-out weakness when the '92 team was assembled. But in this matchup, I can see it being more problematic for the '08 team because arguably its four best players (Carmelo Anthony, Kobe Bryant, LeBron James and Dwyane Wade) play a similar, pound-it, drive-in-the-lane game. Along with a clearly inferior frontline, the '92 team really can pack it in and nearly force Michael Redd to win it by himself.


Of course that never really became a problem for '92 because they lived in transition nearly every single possession. None of the other teams could dribble, pass, or stand up to the defensive pressure, so the shooting ability of the Dream Team was never really tested. In fact, it's not like the Dream Team really played strong fundamental basketball in the tournament. Their talent level was so far exceeding any of the other teams they played against that they were just ball-hawking and having fun most of the time. And it was marvelously successful.

EDIT - Oh, and regards to the question. The Dream Team would win. Look at their frontline (as many others have said)! The only position the US has a clear advantage at is SF, and putting Pippen on Lebron would really mitigate that advantage. PG is hard to say because I can't tell how well the 2008 point guards are going to play yet.


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## Seed (Jun 29, 2005)

Being athletically gifted can make you a great player but being athletically gifted and having good-great fundamentals will make you a legend, that's the one huge thing about the 92' team as well, everyone there looked for the open man and made the right decision. 08' team is good but they don't have the fundamentals that the 92' team had, maybe in the next Olympics we can gauge where these players are and then compare them to the 92 team but to say that the 08' team would beat them is just unbelievable.


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## Air Jordan 23 (Dec 12, 2006)

Seed said:


> Being athletically gifted can make you a great player but being athletically gifted and having good-great fundamentals will make you a legend, that's the one huge thing about the 92' team as well, everyone there looked for the open man and made the right decision. 08' team is good but they don't have the fundamentals that the 92' team had, *maybe in the next Olympics we can gauge where these players are and then compare them to the 92 team but to say that the 08' team would beat them is just unbelievable*.



Why, it's damn near...


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## King George (Jun 21, 2003)

Seed said:


> Being athletically gifted can make you a great player but being athletically gifted and having good-great fundamentals will make you a legend, that's the one huge thing about the 92' team as well, everyone there looked for the open man and made the right decision. 08' team is good but they don't have the fundamentals that the 92' team had, maybe in the next Olympics we can gauge where these players are and then compare them to the 92 team but to say that the 08' team would beat them is just unbelievable.


WTF?! '08 Team has just as much fundamentals as '92. And people thought it would eb impossible for the USA to lose a game when they started sending pros and well they lost and lost a lot. Thats why games are played on the court, not in your mind.


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## OneBadLT123 (Oct 4, 2005)

Hell, I would take the 96 team over the 08 team as well. But only by a very small margin. 

The 94 championship team would have been an intersting matchup as well.


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## OneBadLT123 (Oct 4, 2005)

here is an interesting fact about the 92 team



> The Dream Team won the Olympic basketball tournament with an average margin of victory of 43.8 points and without coach Chuck Daly ever using a timeout.


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## unluckyseventeen (Feb 5, 2006)

King George said:


> WTF?! '08 Team has just as much fundamentals as '92. And people thought it would eb impossible for the USA to lose a game when they started sending pros and well they lost and lost a lot. *Thats why games are played on the court, not in your mind.*


And yet, you're criticizing everybody else for something you're doing, too. It's not like a time warp is going to send the '92 team in and we'll all see it happen on the hardwood. You're no exception to speculation, it's just that your speculation is so incredibly unbalanced in comparison to everybody else's. You claiming "oh, they're more athletic" or "well, these guys run fast" doesn't offset the huge advantages the '92 team has defensively, in the frontcourt and in maturity. But yet, you refuse to acknowledge any of this and throw a tidbit out that doesn't have anything to do with any in-game situation.

You're also saying LeBron has sound fundamentals? Wade has complete fundamentals? Two guys that can't knock down an outside jumpshot reliably, several players that either can't or refuse to play defense, and the same guys that rely on athleticism and speed for a large majority of their points have just as many fundamentals as guys like Bird, Jordan, Malone, Robinson, Barkley, etc? Ha. Not to be an insult to James, Wade, Howard, Kidd or anybody else on the team, but this team has many players that are as far from fundamentals as anybody else in the league... not to mention plenty of players that aren't even near having a complete game. The HUGE flaws of just a couple 2008 players in comparison to the '92 players is already enough to say the 2008 would get their asses cooked and handed to them.

Just give it up. The 2008 team being inferior to the best team ever assembled is something that's okay to admit. *And yet again, I think this is my fourth post asking you to acknowledge the major flaws of many of the players on the 2008 team, and try to find those same flaws from players on the '92 team*, which is something I think you're dodging because you know you're wrong. Although, this is the same person saying what Jordan did is something that happens every time you turn around.

If you're not going to address parts of the argument other people ask you to, then just give up and say you have nothing to really prove.


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## Air Jordan 23 (Dec 12, 2006)

Dare I say "Pwned"?

:clap:


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

unluckyseventeen said:


> You're also saying LeBron has sound fundamentals? Wade has complete fundamentals? Two guys that can't knock down an outside jumpshot reliably, several players that either can't or refuse to play defense, and the same guys that rely on athleticism and speed for a large majority of their points have just as many fundamentals as guys like Bird, Jordan, Malone, Robinson, Barkley, etc?


An important thing to remember is that these guys are going to shoot better in international competition than NBA competition. Facing single coverage at all times rather than being the one guy the defense is focused in on really changes everything, and we saw these guys' shooting percentages go up significantly in international play in 2006. I'm not arguing your point, but rather that the NBA tends to expose even very small flaws in a player's game if they are the only great player on the team.


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## unluckyseventeen (Feb 5, 2006)

Brandname said:


> An important thing to remember is that these guys are going to shoot better in international competition than NBA competition. Facing single coverage at all times rather than being the one guy the defense is focused in on really changes everything, and we saw these guys' shooting percentages go up significantly in international play in 2006. I'm not arguing your point, but rather that the NBA tends to expose even very small flaws in a player's game if they are the only great player on the team.


I suppose that is correct, but that doesn't mean it helps one team out and not the other. The guys from the 92 team were superior players even in the NBA, much less when they're facing international competition.


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## Najee (Apr 5, 2007)

Brandname said:


> An important thing to remember is that these guys are going to shoot better in international competition than NBA competition. Facing single coverage at all times rather than being the one guy the defense is focused in on really changes everything, and we saw these guys' shooting percentages go up significantly in international play in 2006. I'm not arguing your point, but rather that the NBA tends to expose even very small flaws in a player's game if they are the only great player on the team.


That's true, but that's going to apply for both the '92 and '08 teams. If players like Carmelo Anthony, LeBron James and Kobe Bryant are going to shoot higher percentages from that range, then so are people like Michael Jordan, Clyde Drexler and John Stockton (who are similar such long-range shooters in terms of range and accuracy).


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## 1 Penny (Jul 11, 2003)

1992 wins in every position + synergy, since all of them NOT just great players.. but some of the smartest and best leaders of all time.

And yes, Dwight Howard cannot hold Patrick Ewing's jocks, yet alone David Robinson.


Dwight is a monster, since he is so massive and athletic... the centers of back then are as athletic, as big... but with talent and brains.



Doesnt matter if 2008 has Kobe and Wade at SG... both cant stop Jordan... they can both put them at the same time and still wouldnt stop MJ.... in the other hand... MJ would put the clamps on them... BOTH.

The zone would probably slow James, a yes, the forward position for 1992 is "smaller" than 2008, but making LeBron a shooter would be the dream team's goal.... David, Patrick, Karl, Charles... thats a HUGE front court.... all smart too...


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