# This is the best Kobe led Laker team



## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

and arguably the best since 2001. I can't remember a Laker team that was this deep, and our starting five is not only insane, but they seem like they will compliment eachother extremely well.

This is going to be a good year.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

I'm not sure how well they compliment each other just yet, but we'll see. I like their super starting lineup better than the Heat, although I'm biased since my two favorite player types in basketball are pass first PG's and traditional bang in the paint big men.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

On paper it appears that it will translate well. Nash is a pass first guy with a deadly jumper. Kobe is a do it all swingman. Artest is a lock down defender who won't touch the ball that often on offense. Pau is a do it all big man. And Dwight is the best anchor in the league that can still put up 20 a night without a real point guard. We're going to be good.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

And I don't remember the last time we had a bench this good.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Luke said:


> On paper it appears that it will translate well. Nash is a pass first guy with a deadly jumper. Kobe is a do it all swingman. Artest is a lock down defender who won't touch the ball that often on offense. Pau is a do it all big man. And Dwight is the best anchor in the league that can still put up 20 a night without a real point guard. We're going to be good.


Oh, no arguments you're going to be good. You're going to be great. 

Kobe and Dwight are used to being "the guy" though. If it ends up that Nash runs the ball and is able to pick his poison each play with either Kobe, Dwight or Gasol, the team will be almost unstoppable. 

If when the team goes down you get Kobe trying to superman it all by himself, it won't work nearly as well as it should. I've made my argument on that when the Lakers got Nash.

Its going to be a hell of a show either way, and obviously its championship or fail by the new standard.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

R-Star said:


> Oh, no arguments you're going to be good. You're going to be great.
> 
> Kobe and Dwight are used to being "the guy" though. If it ends up that Nash runs the ball and is able to pick his poison each play with either Kobe, Dwight or Gasol, the team will be almost unstoppable.
> 
> ...


The good thing about this team is this: none of our top four guys is an asshole except for Kobe. Steve's a genuinely nice person, Pau is a vag, and Dwight is a child. No one is going to question the pecking order. Kobe will do his thing, Steve will falicitate and shoot open threes, Pau will be a complimentary guy, and Dwight will play defense, rebound, and catch lobs.

At least I hope.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

If that's the case its a 2 team league next year.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

I'd say it's a three team league. Throw OKC in there. I think they have a better chance against us than Miami does due to matchups.


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## M.V.W. (Apr 2, 2011)

Luke said:


> I'd say it's a three team league. *Throw OKC in there.* I think they have a better chance against us than Miami does due to matchups.


Yea, you can't forget them. They will be rivals for years to come.


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## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

Games played: 0.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

What about 2004? Are Dwight and Pau better than Shaq and Malone? Nash better than Payton?

Metta is better Devean George and Jamison is better than Slava though.


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## M.V.W. (Apr 2, 2011)

Jamel Irief said:


> What about 2004? Are Dwight and Pau better than Shaq and Malone? *Nash better than Payton?*
> 
> Metta is better Devean George and Jamison is better than Slava though.


I don't know if he is better than Payton but the Lakers aren't using the Triangle, which is the reason people say he didn't work out as well. Howard and Gasol definitely aren't better than O'Neal and Malone, though.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

Jamel Irief said:


> What about 2004? Are Dwight and Pau better than Shaq and Malone? Nash better than Payton?
> 
> Metta is better Devean George and Jamison is better than Slava though.


I would probably take Dwight/Pau over Shaq/Malone, but it'd be close. Shaq wasn't MDE anymore and Malone was about to retire. Nash is significantly better than Payton, especially on this team. 

And yeah, Metta > George and our current bench > 2004.


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## MojoPin (Oct 10, 2008)

Adam said:


> Games played: 0.


You're right. We shouldn't be acting like Heat fans.


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## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

MojoPin said:


> You're right. We shouldn't be acting like Heat fans.


Agreed.


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## Jace (Sep 26, 2005)

Should be fun. If Miami had developed the best inside-out game in the league with LeBron/Wade post-ups/drive-'n-kicks and Battier/Chalmers/Miller & co. scorching from the perimeter, LAL are likely to now eek them out when considering the floor spacing ability of Nash to go with the need to honor Artest and Kobe around the perimeter. Pau is also almost identical to Bosh in this regard. Dwight isn't the passer out of the post LeBron is, but we all know he has a ton of experience kicking it out to shooters with the Magic. Will he pout and disappear if/when the ball doesn't come his way in crucial stretches of games as happened in ORL with frickin' Jason Richardson and Jameer Nelson on the perimeter? We'll see.

The team will be explosive, but I thought we should've learned by now you can't just say OKC has a better chance because of matchups. Wouldn't be surprised if those thoughts came from the crowd claiming Miami would've lost to SA. Bynum was taller/longer and just as much of a menace defensively and on the boards to the Heat, and even more difficult offensively, yet the Lakers haven't even fared incredibly well against the Heat since the Shaq trade (including our post-Shaq/pre-Big 3 years, other than Wade's injury year), let alone dominated. Dwight Howard is a better player than Andrew Bynum, without a doubt. I just don't see how swapping Bynum for him suddenly flips the script. (Obviously Nash adds a new dimension, but I'm assuming the belief OKC matches up better is a size thing.)

Despite what people think, the Heat have been more steadily killed by quick PGs and sharpshooting wings than star bigs. I spent all of last season defending Nash against people saying he was done (somehow), but I'd be much more scared if he were just a couple years closer to prime. Needless to say, Kobe is suddenly a huge X-factor. Will he pull in the reigns and become more efficient? How healthy will he be after possibly bypassing surgery to play in the Olympics? 

Call me a blind Heat fan, but I just don't see them losing to a team in a series because they're "too small." Other reasons...random, unpredictable reasons, as we see ever year, sure. West/Hibbert/Bass/Garnett aren't Pau/Howard, but the Heat survived those series almost entirely without Chris Bosh. LeBron weighs as much as Karl Malone. The size issue is overstated. LA won't exactly have an easy ride on defense against MIA. Dwight is there to clean up the perimeter deficiencies (yes, including Artest who's declined majorly guarding perimeters), but the Heat's attackers are great playmakers as well. Wade/LeBron have each had 50 pt games against Dwight, and many other great games.

Sorry for the long post  I know it can be misconstrued as some sort of defensive mental meltdown, but I just love having new things to discuss during the doldrums of summer, especially an old semi-rivalry that people have wanted to see return very badly possibly rekindling. It actually probably never really went away to be honest. To meet in the Finals for once would be awesome.

:cheers: to it happening. OKC will be a brutal series, but obviously there's no reason to believe at this point that LA wouldn't have a good shot to win it.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

This is why I say that we've got the best Heat fans around. Good post with some real thought.

Next season is going to be awesome.


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## Cris (Jun 18, 2003)

Luke said:


> And I don't remember the last time we had a bench this good.


Didnt we pretty much say this like two years ago too?


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

It's not even just about Nash and Howard - it's the fact that the Lakers now have a top 5 bench in the league. The last two seasons, we would regularly get ourselves into holes by going to our bench in the 2nd and 3rd quarters. Now that we've added Jodie Meeks and Antawn Jamison, the second unit has become one that perfectly complements the starters and has the talent to score 30-40ppg as a group. Is Jodie Meeks an amazing player? No, but he's good enough to spell Kobe for 15mpg and knock down open shots. When you have this team's starting lineup, that's all you need.

The Lakers are going to be very tough to stop this year.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Jamel Irief said:


> What about 2004? Are Dwight and Pau better than Shaq and Malone? Nash better than Payton?
> 
> Metta is better Devean George and Jamison is better than Slava though.


Nash is without question better right now than 2004 Payton.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Damian Necronamous said:


> It's not even just about Nash and Howard - it's the fact that the Lakers now have a top 5 bench in the league. The last two seasons, we would regularly get ourselves into holes by going to our bench in the 2nd and 3rd quarters. Now that we've added Jodie Meeks and Antawn Jamison, the second unit has become one that perfectly complements the starters and has the talent to score 30-40ppg as a group. Is Jodie Meeks an amazing player? No, but he's good enough to spell Kobe for 15mpg and knock down open shots. When you have this team's starting lineup, that's all you need.
> 
> The Lakers are going to be very tough to stop this year.


I wouldn't be calling it a top 5 bench. Vastly improved, but top 5? Nah. I don't think so.


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## Cris (Jun 18, 2003)

R-Star said:


> I wouldn't be calling it a top 5 bench. Vastly improved, but top 5? Nah. I don't think so.


There are defineately some nice pieces however. Duhon, Meeks, Jamison, Jordan Hill. I mean compared to last year that's already night and day.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

Our bench is certainly in the top ten.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Cris said:


> There are defineately some nice pieces however. Duhon, Meeks, Jamison, Jordan Hill. I mean compared to last year that's already night and day.


Agreed. You guys went from one of the weakest benches and arguably the weakest PG rotation to both being strong suits now.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

This is the strongest team Dwight Howard has lead. He won 60 games and went to the finals with Rashard Lewis instead of Gasol, Wince Harder instead of Kobe, and Jameer Nelson instead of Steve Nash.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Jamel Irief said:


> This is the strongest team Dwight Howard has lead. He won 60 games and went to the finals with Rashard Lewis instead of Gasol, Wince Harder instead of Kobe, and Jameer Nelson instead of Steve Nash.


Its arguably the strongest teams Nash and Gasol have played on as well.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

Jamel Irief said:


> This is the strongest team Dwight Howard has lead. He won 60 games and went to the finals with Rashard Lewis instead of Gasol, Wince Harder instead of Kobe, and Jameer Nelson instead of Steve Nash.


Wince wasn't on the 2009 squad archivist. And Rafer Alston was starting due to 'Meer's injury.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

But I still get your point.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

Luke said:


> Wince wasn't on the 2009 squad archivist. And Rafer Alston was starting due to 'Meer's injury.


Yeah I was thinking of the 2010 team. They won 60 games but didn't make the finals.


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## Jace (Sep 26, 2005)

Anyone know if Jamison still plays any (decent) minutes at SF?


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## Wilt_The_Stilt (Jun 7, 2002)

I don't think he plays there much anymore.

I'm guessing we will see Kobe slide to the 3 with Meeks at the 2 at times.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

I'm not sold the ebanks doesn't pass Meeks on the depth chart either


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

I think that Meeks fills a better role than Ebanks does though. His shooting is going to be awesome off the bench.

I do hope that Ebanks continues to improve though, he showed major flashes last year of being a contributor down the road.


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

This is definitely the best Dwight Howard led team


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## MojoPin (Oct 10, 2008)

Meeks is definitely ahead of Ebanks on the depth chart. I don't expect Ebanks to be playing much. Odom and Morris will probably be on the d league team. 

I wonder who is going to get more minutes, Blake or Duhon?


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

By the end of the season, Duhon.


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## elcap15 (Aug 8, 2006)

I would not be surprised to see a small ball reserve unit of Duhon,Blake, and Meeks all on the floor together. All those guys are shooters that can really spread the floor.


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## doctordrizzay (May 10, 2011)

Funny how people talk without 1 game played. I can't see this team getting by the Thunder (who just tasted the Finals) or maybe even the Spurs and Clips. Thing about this team is it just got alot slower and older, when was already a concern when Lakers played the Nuggets, the Nug's literally ran to victory. 

On paper this look's amazing but the average age of the starting 5 is 33 years old and a center who just came off back surgery. Jamison who is 36 anchors the bench as well. 

the Thunder starting 5 is 23, with the 6th man of the year anchoring the bench. Speed beats Size.

I like the trade mostly because it makes the season so much more compelling. But Laker fans, please stop guaranteeing a ring or even a finals appearance. Chemistry is everything, and so is Father time which Lakers both don't have on there side.


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## elcap15 (Aug 8, 2006)

Well, assuming youre not just a troll, I will respond to you. 

Last year, the lakers had a pretty good regular season record and lost in the 2nd round of the playoffs to the team that went to the NBA finals. While we only won 1 game that series, there were 2 losses that basically could have been wins. It was closer than the record showed.

This offseason, we essential swapped Ramon Sessions for Steve Nash, and Bynum for Dwight Howard, while adding a few valuable pieces to the bench, all without having to give up other assets.

So let me ask you this, how should we be talking after having added 2 HOF'ers in the offseason?


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## Wilt_The_Stilt (Jun 7, 2002)

What's funny is a Heat fan telling someone else not to guarantee wins.

But drizzay is just worried that Kobe will get too many rings for LeBron to catch him.


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

elcap15 said:


> Well, assuming youre not just a troll, I will respond to you.
> 
> Last year, the lakers had a pretty good regular season record and lost in the 2nd round of the playoffs to the team that went to the NBA finals. While we only won 1 game that series, there were 2 losses that basically could have been wins. It was closer than the record showed.
> 
> ...


I would really, really apreciate people not saying those things. It seems like when the Lakers got Malone and Payton.

The CURRENT Steve Nash IS NOT an HOF and WILL NOT play at HOF level. 
D-Ho is coming from a back injury (and surgery) and who knows the level of play he will get back to.

IN PAPER, the Lakers upgraded.
But if it works well, it's still to be seen...


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

doctordrizzay said:


> Funny how people talk without 1 game played. I can't see this team getting by the Thunder (who just tasted the Finals) or maybe even the Spurs and Clips. Thing about this team is it just got alot slower and older, when was already a concern when Lakers played the Nuggets, the Nug's literally ran to victory.
> 
> On paper this look's amazing but the average age of the starting 5 is 33 years old and a center who just came off back surgery. Jamison who is 36 anchors the bench as well.
> 
> ...


Lol.


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## King Sancho Fantastic (Jul 19, 2005)

I'm not worried about Dwight's back. Dude was putting up 20-20 games with the hurt back. I think he'll be fine.


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## Jace (Sep 26, 2005)

Just so everyone knows, we Heat fans take no ownership of the doctor. Let him represent us not. His forehead is adhered to the area just below LeBron's belly button.

Nobody, not Heat fans, Laker fans, OKC fans, should be talking guaranteed titles or finals trips. Its silly and you're setting yourself up for major disappointment if you are (any team). The field always has the advantage, especially when you consider the random possibilities. In spite of my tentativeness to fall into the doc's trap again, I'll ask this: How in the world did LA get significantly older? Howard may be 2 years older than Bynum, but he plays with more spring and generally more durably. Nash still doesn't play his age, even if there may be some decline. LA at the moment doesn't have the young collection of role players SA has, but their collection of talent will make up for the age of their perimeter. 

One reality some of my Heat brethren will need to face is accepting we aren't the clear-cut, money-equal free agent destination of the league anymore. I don't think we ever were quite to the extent some of the maniacs calling guys like Joel Pryzbilla and Troy Murphy sad losers because they chose other teams thought we were. My point is, LA will have just as much efficacy to sign a bought out veteran to bolster their depth as the Heat will. Fortunately, the teams are looking for opposite things. We're wing city, and your big rotation is locked in. Doesn't change the fact that there's a strong chance the Lakers will sign someone during or even just before the season that makes fans around the league groan even more than they already are.

Anyway, Duhon is turrrrible. I'm really quite sure he's worse than Blake. I'd tolerate Blake on the Heat (we have a history of awful PGs. We gave Smush a go after y'all), last I knew Duhon couldn't shoot anymore, and he's now fat. Wouldn't pay him with dead skin flakes.

And yeah, Dwight's surgery was out-patient, pretty simple. He's a horse, this seems like the first time he's ever been hurt. I wouldn't be too worried about his back.


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## King Sancho Fantastic (Jul 19, 2005)

Dwight was playing WITH his injured back in March & posted 23.1 ppg, 13.1 rpg, 1.8 bpg and 1.6 stls.


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## Jace (Sep 26, 2005)

During a season where he was oft-criticized for being disinterested, with a coach he, well...










Though I know some of the concern there is with durability rather than performance. I've heard a lot of people say "once you have back problems, you always have back problems," but every situation is different.


Just like people were so intrigued and excited to see the shot distribution and how things would wind up looking in Miami in 2010, the same questions and intrigue are in play here. Dwight will be able to give everything he's given in the past, the question are all schematic and on approach. The Heat's problem wasn't really a willingness to accept new roles, but the difficulty of actually finding and merging the roles. LA's four have a more clearcut paradigm for how to fit well, assuming Kobe accepts a slasher role and Dwight understands he's not the center of attention. 

I think some question if all that will happen, but as a fan, that makes things fun. I loved hearing people say Wade/LeBron couldn't co-exist, it sure as hell beat hearing people say we'd be gift-wrapped the trophy every year.


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## MojoPin (Oct 10, 2008)

With Dwight I've gotten the impression that he will buy into the system. I think the Lakers framed the situation like this to him: Kobe and Steve will Put you through boot camp, then you will lead.


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## doctordrizzay (May 10, 2011)

King Sancho Fantastic said:


> Dwight was playing WITH his injured back in March & posted 23.1 ppg, 13.1 rpg, 1.8 bpg and 1.6 stls.


Bynum in march was

22.2

10.9

1.8

0.4

1.9

Not a whole hell of a difference.


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## King Sancho Fantastic (Jul 19, 2005)

doctordrizzay said:


> Bynum in march was
> 
> 22.2
> 
> ...


Was Bynum playing with a herniated disc in March too??


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## elcap15 (Aug 8, 2006)

Bynum is good. I dont think anyone is going to argue that. He seems to have reached the consensus "2nd best center in the NBA" title.

Dwight is better. And he's better at the things we really need from our big, rebounding and shot blocking. I think that is the biggest difference.


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## Wilt_The_Stilt (Jun 7, 2002)

elcap15 said:


> Bynum is good. I dont think anyone is going to argue that. He seems to have reached the consensus "2nd best center in the NBA" title.
> 
> Dwight is better. And he's better at the things we really need from our big, rebounding and shot blocking. I think that is the biggest difference.


I agree and I would expand shot blocking to defense in general. Dwight is much more mobile and it makes a difference on things like pick and roll defense for example.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

It's funny because Bynum will probably put up better numbers than Dwight next year. Certainly he will score more points.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

But 'Drew isn't close to Howard. I loved Bynum and defended him around here for years, and will continue to support him in Philly. But he's nowhere near the difference make that Howard is. Dwight is literally a once in a generation defensive talent that can put up 20 points a night with Jameer Nelson passing him the ball. He's like a better Alonzo.


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## elcap15 (Aug 8, 2006)

Luke said:


> It's funny because Bynum will probably put up better numbers than Dwight next year. Certainly he will score more points.


I think it is quite possible he scores more points. He will definately have a better FT%. Their rebounding numbers might stay close, only because Pau will be taking some of Dwight's boards, and Drew doesnt have much competition there in philly. I would predict that Dwight is better in all other categories including FG%.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

I wouldn't be surprised if Bynum out rebounded Howard. Bynum is a special rebounder and like you said he won't have Pau there to gobble 10 a game up.


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## MojoPin (Oct 10, 2008)

Bynum's FG% is going to drop and his TO are going to increase. He's going to be getting doubled like crazy.


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

Luke said:


> But 'Drew isn't close to Howard. I loved Bynum and defended him around here for years, and will continue to support him in Philly. But he's nowhere near the difference make that Howard is. Dwight is literally a once in a generation defensive talent that can put up 20 points a night with Jameer Nelson passing him the ball. He's like a better Alonzo.


Probably more importantly, Dwight should be a better fit to Gasol.


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## Jace (Sep 26, 2005)

Yup, and both will be able to switch assignments on the fly on D. Basically two huge PFs up front.


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