# What's wrong with/in Memphis ?



## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

> Today came word from the Associated Press that Hasheem Thabeet canceled his workout with the Memphis Grizzlies, citing a shoulder injury.
> 
> _"Thabeet was a combination of he's had some shoulder situations and he wanted to talk to some other teams," Grizzlies general manager Chris Wallace said of the 7-foot-3 center out of Connecticut. "It's also what goes on this time of the year with guys showing, not showing, that type of thing. The gamesmanship of the draft."_
> 
> ...


All made up, set up or are the Grizzlies simply desperately trying to trade the pick ?


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## c_dog (Sep 15, 2002)

the grizzlies just need to pick the best player available anyway. what's dan fegan going to do to embarrass this franchise? this franchise is already an embarrassment and by not picking rubio or thabeet they're setting themselves up for another. i don't see harden or curry at #2, i just don't.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Honestly, if they could get Amare for the #2 pick, I would give it up. They would be 10x better next year.


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## Dee-Zy (Jan 12, 2006)

HKF said:


> Honestly, if they could get Amare for the #2 pick, I would give it up. They would be 10x better next year.


That would a one year rental. Amare would never want to sign in 2010 unless somehow he was teh missing piece in Memphis and they get to the second round in the playoffs.


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## Dee-Zy (Jan 12, 2006)

Conley
Mayo
Gay
Amare
Gasol

Would look pretty nice. If Gay develop into a good defender and they sign a few FA for depth, that would def be a playoff team.

If Amare's contract wasn't up next year, I definately would of agreed to the #2 for STAT.


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## c_dog (Sep 15, 2002)

if they commit to amare, make amare the focal point of their offense and sell him to the fans, i'm sure amare would have no problem staying with the team. the team can be a playoff team with the addition of amare. amare is a better player than any of these guys.


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## NeoSamurai (Jan 16, 2003)

Would the Kings be willing to move either Hawes or Thompson and their 4th for the Grizzlies 2nd? If so, Memphis should be all over the deal and then hope Harden falls to 4. Shift Mayo to the 1 spot and you have yourself a hell of a youth core to go forward with. 

Mayo
Harden
Gay
Thompson/Hawes
Gasol


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

Suns would ask for Gay as well as the #2, like at the trade deadline. Or they wouldn't do it.


They should take Rubio and trade him to the highest bidder. Or just take Thabeet and keep him.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

They should pick Curry and trade him to the Knicks.


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## c_dog (Sep 15, 2002)

haha, i don't think the knicks would pursue curry that hard to give the grizz anything worthy...

just pick the best player available and you can always trade after. i think the grizzlies could always trade for tyreke evans. i'm not high on harden at all... harden looks already flabby before entering the league. he looks like someone who's going to struggle with weight issues, like baron davis, andre miller, but worse. he's got the body of an out of shape baron davis as a rookie.


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## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

c_dog said:


> haha, i don't think the knicks would pursue curry that hard to give the grizz anything worthy...
> 
> just pick the best player available and you can always trade after. i think the grizzlies could always trade for tyreke evans. i'm not high on harden at all... harden looks already flabby before entering the league. he looks like someone who's going to struggle with weight issues, like baron davis, andre miller, but worse. he's got the body of an out of shape baron davis as a rookie.


Not the Knicks have anything appealing enough since Lee is a free agent :|


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

They have Nate, Lee, Duhon, Al Harrington, Danilo Gallinari, all players that can help the Grizz.


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## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

HB said:


> They have Nate, Lee, Duhon, Al Harrington, Danilo Gallinari, all players that can help the Grizz.


And none of them are close to being stars. What the Grizzlies need is star power, not role players.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

You are better than that croco. You need guys who know how to play the game, not all stars at every position. Beggars cant be choosers, what team is going to be giving Grizzlies their stars?


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## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

Right now the Grizzlies have All-Stars at zero positions. Mayo might get there, Rudy Gay might there at some point in the future, it is not a given. There is a reason why they haven't won a lot of games in the past three years, not enough talent on the team. 

If there is no deal, then there is no deal, you don't have to trade for the sake of it. Memphis is in a position where they can either take the best offer to trade the pick or take who they feel is the best player. It just doesn't make sense to give up the #2 pick for a bunch of role players.


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## Gotham2krazy (Nov 22, 2005)

croco said:


> Right now the Grizzlies have All-Stars at zero positions. Mayo might get there, Rudy Gay might there at some point in the future, it is not a given. There is a reason why they haven't won a lot of games in the past three years, not enough talent on the team.
> 
> If there is no deal, then there is no deal, you don't have to trade for the sake of it. Memphis is in a position where they can either take the best offer to trade the pick or take who they feel is the best player. It just doesn't make sense to give up the #2 pick for a bunch of role players.


Dude... they have plenty of talent! I don't know what you're talking about but that team is YOUNG! The problem for the Grizzlies is that they don't have a good coach! Really though, Conley, Mayo, Gay, Gasol, Warrick, and Arthur is a solid rotation of young, talented players. If anything, the problem lies with Chris Wallace and his inability to put the foot down and be decisive. He let himself get pressured to trade the older Gasol, hired a wrong coach and all-in-all has headed the wrong direction in terms of rebuilding.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Rudy Gay nor OJ Mayo are not better than Al Harrington, talk less Darrell Arthur. Why is Al at the 4 spot a bad move for the Grizz?


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

Mayo, unlike Gay, has the potential to be a top 10 player. Harrington will never be. Outside Mayo that roster is all supporting cast-type players. They have way too many of those guys and not enough guys with Mayo's upside. Dealing #2 for yet more roleplayers isn't going to change things. Really, though, they should package Gay with #2 to land Amare (if that's what it takes) and pay the man everything he asks. Then they should sign Ben Gordon over the summer. That'd be a lineup they could go to war with.


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## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

Gotham2krazy said:


> Dude... they have plenty of talent! I don't know what you're talking about but that team is YOUNG! The problem for the Grizzlies is that they don't have a good coach! Really though, Conley, Mayo, Gay, Gasol, Warrick, and Arthur is a solid rotation of young, talented players. If anything, the problem lies with Chris Wallace and his inability to put the foot down and be decisive. He let himself get pressured to trade the older Gasol, hired a wrong coach and all-in-all has headed the wrong direction in terms of rebuilding.


You are using the right word, it's a solid core. Unfortunately solid doesn't get you anywhere, not in the Western Conference where most playoff teams have at least two All-Stars on the roster. Rudy regressed last year, maybe and hopefully he will bounce back, Mayo is already a good player and should eventually be one of the best combo guards in the league. I don't see Top 10 potential though, ehmunro.

Harrington is the same exact player he was in previous years, he has always been a role player, still is and will be. He is not a reason to give up a draft choice that high.


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

Gotham2krazy said:


> He let himself get pressured to trade the older Gasol, hired a wrong coach and all-in-all has headed the wrong direction in terms of rebuilding.


Chris Wallace didn't make those decisions.


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

HB said:


> Rudy Gay nor OJ Mayo are not better than Al Harrington, talk less Darrell Arthur. Why is Al at the 4 spot a bad move for the Grizz?


Al Harrington has always been a "get mine" player and always will be. He's an upgrade from the crap the Grizzlies currently have at PF, but he shouldn't be in the team's plans in the long-term or short-term unless Memphis gets him in a no-brainer deal, like Darko straight up.

Gay and Mayo are just as good as Harrington is, and they're seven or eight years younger.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

You are not getting a superstar at that 2 spot.


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## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

HB said:


> You are not getting a superstar at that 2 spot.


Definitely not, but there are only a handful in the NBA. If you can't find a better player than Al Harrington or Nate Robinson with that second pick however, you might as well try another job.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

The teams going to trade also know there's not much value at the 2 spot also. So who's fooling who?


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

HB said:


> The teams going to trade also know there's not much value at the 2 spot also. So who's fooling who?


There's an awful lot of interest in moving up to that No. 2 spot, so to say there's no value being in that position is pretty foolish in itself.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Value enough to give up a 'star' player in return? No thanks.


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

HB said:


> Value enough to give up a 'star' player in return? No thanks.


I haven't argued that, and that wasn't Croco's point either (as he...already said). Once that registers, I'll continue this conversation.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Croco said the Knicks have nothing appealing, because none of their tradeable players are stars. Now again, what team knowing that the number 2 pick is most likely not going to yield a super star is going to trade the Grizz one of their 'star' players? Of which you jumped into the convo gung ho and all, saying there's value to the pick. Though I wonder where in my previous posts I mentioned it didnt have any value.

I guess I should be the one asking you, does that register?

P.S. if two of your better players in Gay and Mayo are supposedly as good as Al Harrington right now, wouldn't that make Al a star, I mean after all Gay and Mayo have been called stars by some. Also as far as marketability, wouldn't Nate also be called a star?


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

Here's the thing, Memphis has enough supporting cast players. The last thing they need are two or three more. They don't have enough playing time for the roleplayers they have. If the best that they can get for #2 is a couple of roleplayers, they're better off staying at #2 and drafting. There's at least a chance that whomever they draft might one day be more than a roleplayer.

As for your claims vis a vis Soft Al, the thing is that Mayo is a rookie, and already outperforming Harrington, while Gay is arguably as good. They both have room for growth, Harrington is already as good as he's ever going to get. So, no, he's not a star.


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

HB said:


> Croco said the Knicks have nothing appealing, because none of their tradeable players are stars. Now again, what team knowing that the number 2 pick is most likely not going to yield a super star is going to trade the Grizz one of their 'star' players?


Again, I've said nothing about Memphis trading the pick for a star player or suggested that teams should trade a star player for the pick. 

Here's the point though. Getting a superstar with the No. 2 pick, that's not a necessity. It's ideal, but not necessary. What is a necessity is making your team better both in the present and down the road. Al Harrington and Nate Robinson don't make the Grizzlies relevant or significantly improved now, and they don't in the future. Robinson in particular adds nothing to the team that it doesn't already have.

And in this vacuum argument that you've concocted, if the choices are getting Thabeet/Rubio/Evans/Curry/whoever or trading for Al Harrington, you roll the dice and take Thabeet/whoever. There's a higher chance of that player developing into a superstar because the chances that Al Harrington does are nil.



> Of which you jumped into the convo gung ho and all, saying there's value to the pick. Though I wonder where in my previous posts I mentioned it didnt have any value.


You said it has "not much" value. Mah bad. I guess my augmenting your viewpoint is just as bad as you inventing mine.



> P.S. if two of your better players in Gay and Mayo are supposedly as good as Al Harrington right now, wouldn't that make Al a star, I mean after all Gay and Mayo have been called stars by some.


Gay and Mayo are potential rising stars. Big difference. Guys like Al Harrington, Corey Maggette, Jamal Crawford...those guys are what they are, and they're certainly not stars. They're guys who've spent their careers putting up points on bum squads even to the detriment of their own teams. Rudy and O.J. could turn out to be the next Harrington and Crawford, but for now, they're young enough that there's at least some reason to believe their ceiling will be higher than that.



> Also as far as marketability, wouldn't Nate also be called a star?


:laugh:

Nate Robinson isn't putting butts in seats at FedExForum. Maybe if you lived in the city and followed the team, you'd understand why. But you don't, so you don't.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

The Atlanta Hawks and the Chicago Bulls have built teams comprising mostly of 'role players' . Arthur is most likely never going to be as good as 'soft Al'. Besides, this is a one or two year rental, wont Al's contract expire sometime soon?


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

HB said:


> The Atlanta Hawks and the Chicago Bulls have built teams comprising mostly of 'role players' . Arthur is most likely never going to be as good as 'soft Al'. Besides, this is a one or two year rental, wont Al's contract expire sometime soon?


Exactly. It's a one- or two-year rental until Al either falls off or goes somewhere else. That's worth the No. 2 pick?

If Al Harrington is your only trade option (he isn't), then take whoever you think is the best prospect at No. 2 overall and roll the dice that he has a better career.


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## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

HB said:


> The Atlanta Hawks and the Chicago Bulls have built teams comprising mostly of 'role players' . Arthur is most likely never going to be as good as 'soft Al'. Besides, this is a one or two year rental, wont Al's contract expire sometime soon?


Why would you want to emulate the current Hawks or Bulls ?


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Why not? Its not that easy to build championship squads in the NBA, especially if you dont get that one stud player.


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## o.iatlhawksfan (Mar 3, 2006)

croco said:


> And none of them are close to being stars. What the Grizzlies need is star power, not role players.



That what Mayo is, imo pick a player who compliments him.


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## sMaK (Jun 13, 2002)

I don't think any GM would trade a 1st round pick for Al Harrington at this point, let alone the #2 pick in the draft.


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## Zuca (Dec 4, 2003)

What about trading #2, Marko Jaric and Darko for #8, Al Harrington and QRich?


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## Wade County (Jun 22, 2003)

If im Memphis, id probably take it. Adds depth - and they can still get a quality player at #8.

PG - Conley
SG - Mayo
SF - Gay
PF - Harrington
C - Gasol

Then add 1 of Hill, Flynn, Curry, DeRozan...theyre probably better off. Im not sold on Thabeet and Rubio being superstars at all.


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

sMaK said:


> I don't think any GM would trade a 1st round pick for Al Harrington at this point, let alone the #2 pick in the draft.


Harrington got traded straight up for Jamal Crawford last year. That's his value.

Whoever thinks he (or anyone else on the Knicks) is worth the second pick in the draft, I'll have what they're smoking.


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## Smithian (Apr 3, 2006)

Haha, if Harrington for the #2 was even remotely possible, then Pat Riley needs to get in there... I'd like some Thabeet...


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Its not like the Grizz dont get a lottery pick out of it.


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

To the original question...perception.

I mean the Grizzlies were paying the luxury tax in 2006. There are some teams that have never paid the tax and have not won jack in the NBA.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

If they could package the #2 and Gay for Ama're they should jump on it right away. Mayo and Ama're is a good tandom, and with an ever improving Conley and solid contributions from Arthur/Gasol they should be a playoff team.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Honestly, that's not a good deal for Memphis. Trading Gay to get Amare doesn't help. If anything the deal should be the #2 pick, Arthur and a 2011 pick for Amare. Giving up Gay and #2, puts is not giving you drastic changes. If you keep Gay, Mayo and Gasol and get Amare by giving the Suns picks and cap relief (heck they do not have a 2010 pick), then that should be enough.

A Conley, Mayo, Gay, Amare and Gasol starting lineup is what they should be looking for.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

HKF said:


> Honestly, that's not a good deal for Memphis. Trading Gay to get Amare doesn't help. If anything the deal should be the #2 pick, Arthur and a 2011 pick for Amare. Giving up Gay and #2, puts is not giving you drastic changes. If you keep Gay, Mayo and Gasol and get Amare by giving the Suns picks and cap relief (heck they do not have a 2010 pick), then that should be enough.
> 
> A Conley, Mayo, Gay, Amare and Gasol starting lineup is what they should be looking for.


Rudy Gay is a black hole on offense; all that he would do is take shots and opprotunities away from Mayo/Ama're. He's regressed since the 2008 season, and watching him "try to be the man" and outplay Mayo (Which failed pretty badly) was painful to watch. Memphis doesn't need Gay to be sucsessful.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

You are the first person I have seen every refer to Rudy Gay as a blackhole. In fact he is criticized constantly for not being the man.


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## sMaK (Jun 13, 2002)

He's the same guy who said Beasley is like Melo with more of a post up game. I think he makes things up.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Well to be fair, Beasley did play in the post a lot more in college than he does in the NBA, and there have been quite a few comparisons between him and Melo in the media.


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## Nimreitz (May 13, 2003)

Alright, so let's assume that Memphis trades the #2 pick to Minnesota for #5 and #6. What then?

1. Griffin
2. Rubio
3. Probably either Thabeet or Harden. This really gets complicated.
4. I think the Kings are taking Flynn
5. Hill?
6. Harden?

Harden can play alongside both Mayo and Conley, and Hill would add athleticism to their front court. Might allow them to not resign Warrick. If OKC goes with Harden at #3, then Memphis is probably looking at Thabeet and???? I guess probably Tyreke Evans?


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

HKF said:


> You are the first person I have seen every refer to Rudy Gay as a blackhole. In fact he is criticized constantly for not being the man.


Why would Memphis want Gay to be the man if Mayo is already better than him? Gay is an inefficient chucker that can't pass, and is an average rebounder. He's regressed.

And SMak, what the hell does Beasley have to do with what we're talking about? I've already said that i've had very limited viewing time watching Beasley this year, and he played a bunch more in the post during his time at Kansas State.


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## Nimreitz (May 13, 2003)

VanillaPrice said:


> Why would Memphis want Gay to be the man if Mayo is already better than him? Gay is an inefficient chucker that can't pass, and is an average rebounder. He's regressed.
> 
> And SMak, what the hell does Beasley have to do with what we're talking about? I've already said that i've had very limited viewing time watching Beasley this year, *and he played a bunch more in the post during his time at Kansas State.*


Not really.


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## Wade County (Jun 22, 2003)

Beas probably played slightly more post oriented, but thats because he was playing against shorter opposition. He still was mainly a face up guy though, and will continue to be in the pros.

Not sure why Memphis is being viewed so poorly, if anything, they play their young guys - agents should want them to go there.


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## Mr. Hobbes (Jul 1, 2005)

Beasley looked bigger on the court when he was in college. He took advantage of that in the post.


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

It's pretty risky,but Rubio is the correct move unless someone makes an offer you can't refuse.He looks to me like someone who could go either way,he could be really good or really mediocre.Still it's worth the chance.If he comes and pans out he would fit in well with the rest of their talent and make those other players more effective.Even if he isn't great he's going to be entertaining and that's something Memphis could really,really use.


Of course his contract situation is troubling.I wonder how they convinced him to sign a contract that pays him 200K per year and has a six million dollar buyout.Did they bribe his agent to tell him to sign that or did he get a big signing bonus.He'll have to basically play a year and a half for free if he can't get out of that.Plus his spanish club is apparently using the buyout as collateral for a tax debt or something.I don't see how you can do that.


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## hroz (Mar 4, 2006)

I would try package Gay away for defensive stopper and a draft pick.
He is just a black hole defenesively.

If they go Thabeet its not a bad thing

Thabeet
Gasol/Arthur/Milicic/Warrick/Haddadi
Gay/Ross
Mayo/Jaric
Conley/Wilks

Decent lineup.
If they go for the T-Wolves trade.
I would be asking for Love-(Conley or Gay) trade as well.

Gasol
Love/Hill
Gay/Arthur
Mayo/Ross
Curry/Wilks

OR
Gasol
Love/Hill
Arthur/Ross
Mayo
Conley/Curry

Not bad either way.


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