# What's an All-Star Worth?



## e_blazer1 (Feb 3, 2004)

Let's assume that the Blazers could get Vince Carter or Ray Allen for a sign-and-trade package of Shareef and Joel Przybilla. Obviously, giving up Shareef is something that we've all assumed would happen anyway, so that's the easy part of the deal. But if the other team demands Joel as a sweetener to the deal, would you do it? What if they want our first round pick this year?

Bottom line: What's it worth to you to add an All-Star shooting guard to our roster next season?


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## Sambonius (May 21, 2003)

I would do it if it came down to us not being able to get under the cap by getting rid of Miles and Ratliff for expiring contracts. It depends the kind of star we're talking about, Carter and Allen, no. They are getting up there in age and by the time this team hits its prime they will be long gone.


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## ballerchick (Feb 22, 2005)

I don't think we can or should get rid of Prizz for anybody, espscially with the way he has been preforming. I would rather see us get rid of frahm, but he wouldn't help us get anybody good either soo.. mabye trade SAR, frahm, and HA, and or a draft pick for someone like Cory Maggete or Quentin Richerdson


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## Blazer Ringbearer (Jan 28, 2003)

I would wait till after the draft.

If we can somehow get our hands on Bogut (or another top big man), Przy becomes expendable - especially if we don't think we can re-sign him after next year. We would have Bogut, Theo and the possibility of Ha and Nedzad down the line.

It would be better to trade him for someone who is really going to help the team - Joe Johnson? - than to lose him like Gilbert Arenas.


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## HOWIE (Dec 30, 2002)

I agree with waiting til the draft comes and then we will have to worry that Portland might be drafting for another team in a trade to nab a proven player. I think that unless Portland is picking in the top 3-4 of the draft they could be drafting for another team, happens all the time........doesn't it?

So does it mean that if Portland draft's a point guard or small forward it means that they are going to trade them? Maybe, maybe not. We just have to sit back and enjoy the ride, this should be a very interesting draft to say the least. :yes:


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## gambitnut (Jan 4, 2003)

As far as talent goes, Przybilla is untouchable, but with his contract, it might be better to get value for him while we can. Becuase of his contract, I would rather trade him than Ha, I would still like to keep him though. I think that we have enough young players at just about every position, but I like all of the ones we have now, so I would rather trade the pick, if any of the prospects. I'm not sure what a team might want from us, but a team that wants a high pick might be in rebuild mode, and therefore, prefer NVE's expiring contract to a sign and trade with Reef. And to answer the question of the thread, yes, I would like to trade almost anything except our newest young prospects for a top SG.


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## SheedSoNasty (Dec 31, 2002)

I'd be willing to trade Zach or Miles and fillers if it would return a solid 2 guard with some veteran leadership. If Joe Johnson isn't available, someone like Paul Pierce may do the trick in terms of leadership.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

Silly thought, but anyone think it's possible to spin some combination of non-Telfair assets into the top two picks in the draft? Assuming Marvin Williams comes out, what if the Blazers could pick up both Bogut and Williams? Even if it meant giving up Randolph, Przybilla, Outlaw...wouldn't a young core of Sebastian Telfair, Marvin Williams and Andrew Bogut be worth it?

Of course, we'd have to take back major filler, but maybe something like Przybilla, Outlaw, Randolph and Portland's pick (assuming it is not top 2) would be enough. The pick and Przybilla for the top pick and Randolph and Outlaw for the second pick.

I guess I'm really feeding into the hype of the top-rated prospects. Plus I want Portland's dip into the upper reaches (lowest depths) of the lottery to be as productive as possible.


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

ballerchick said:


> I don't think we can or should get rid of Prizz for anybody, espscially with the way he has been preforming.


the point is that given the way Joel has been performing, and given that Portland does *not* hold his Bird rights, the Blazers have little chance of retaining him once his contract runs out after next season. Would you rather keep him through next year and lose him without compensation or trade him this offseason for value to a team under the cap that can resign him? I would presume a 26 year old starting center has significant value.

STOMP


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

Q. What's an All-Star Worth?

A. Dale Davis and Speedy Claxton

Baron is on ESPN tearing up the Mavs as I type.

STOMP


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## CanJohno (Feb 11, 2005)

STOMP said:


> Q. What's an All-Star Worth?
> 
> A. Dale Davis and Speedy Claxton
> 
> ...


Good answer... :curse:


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## CanJohno (Feb 11, 2005)

Minstrel said:


> Silly thought, but anyone think it's possible to spin some combination of non-Telfair assets into the top two picks in the draft? Assuming Marvin Williams comes out, what if the Blazers could pick up both Bogut and Williams? Even if it meant giving up Randolph, Przybilla, Outlaw...wouldn't a young core of Sebastian Telfair, Marvin Williams and Andrew Bogut be worth it?
> 
> Of course, we'd have to take back major filler, but maybe something like Przybilla, Outlaw, Randolph and Portland's pick (assuming it is not top 2) would be enough. The pick and Przybilla for the top pick and Randolph and Outlaw for the second pick.
> 
> I guess I'm really feeding into the hype of the top-rated prospects. Plus I want Portland's dip into the upper reaches (lowest depths) of the lottery to be as productive as possible.


I wouldn't be opposed to that, necessarily. I like Bogut, and think he's going to be a solid player in the NBA (possibly a VERY good player in the near future), but the player I really would like to get is Marvin Williams (assuming he declares and is available when we pick). This guy has the potential to be a HUGE star in the NBA. His numbers would've been disgusting (in a good way) this year, in the ACC, if he (a) played more minutes, and (b) if he was more of a focal point on the team. And, it appears, the only reason he didn't get more minutes or become more of a focal point for the team, is because he's a freshman.

Of course, it's still unclear as to whether or not he'll actually declare, I have a feeling he will if the team reaches (at least) The Final Four. And he'd absolutely HAVE TO, IMO, if his team wins the the championship.

Not to say that I'd be upset to get Bogut, but I think if we actually have a choice between the two, you absolutely have to take Big Marv'.


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## Sambonius (May 21, 2003)

STOMP said:


> Q. What's an All-Star Worth?
> 
> A. Dale Davis and Speedy Claxton
> 
> ...



And by tearing it up you mean losing the game and shooting less than 50% then yea, he's tearing it up.


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

Sambonius said:


> And by tearing it up you mean losing the game and shooting less than 50% then yea, he's tearing it up.


ahhh the benefit of 20/20 hindsite... still as I type 19 points on 17 shots, 5 rbs, 7 assts, 4 stls. The W's are losing to one of the top teams in the West without their starting 4 and having had their starting 3 tossed... here's to you Sam :cheers: 

STOMP


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## MARIS61 (Apr 28, 2003)

2 years from now Joel will be an allstar, VC will be retired and Ray Allen will be fading into a backup role.

We are well into the rebuilding mode now and have some great pieces who will only improve. The last thing we need now are aging super-egos to clutter it up.


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## Sambonius (May 21, 2003)

STOMP said:


> ahhh the benefit of 20/20 hindsite... still as I type 19 points on 17 shots, 5 rbs, 7 assts, 4 stls. The W's are losing to one of the top teams in the West without their starting 4 and having had their starting 3 tossed... here's to you Sam :cheers:
> 
> STOMP


Remember, Dale Davis is a former all-star too kiddo. I was actually pulling for GS, I want them to gain some wins so we can get a better lotto pick. There starting 4 is always injured so they should be accustomed to that, and Dunleavy got tossed because his backup acquired from Phoenix is out playing him, just my opinion though. Cheers.


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

Sambonius said:


> Remember, Dale Davis is a former all-star too kiddo. I was actually pulling for GS, I want them to gain some wins so we can get a better lotto pick. There starting 4 is always injured so they should be accustomed to that, and Dunleavy got tossed because his backup acquired from Phoenix is out playing him, just my opinion though. Cheers.


kiddo? Seriously... pop your head out and enjoy the fresh air.

Their starting 4 is a double double machine whose one of the leading 3 pt% shooters in the league. He hasn't missed a game in a month plus and tonight he missed a game not to injury but for "personal reasons." 

Dunleavy was tossed because he railed about a bogus charging call... he definitely lost his cool. We're all entitled to our opinion and all... but your claim  that he was tossed because his backup was outplaying him is a major stretch. 4 fouls in 11 minutes at home is probably more apprapro as to why he was frustrated, and the last foul was a plain stupid (if you were watching you'd know).

Anyhoo, Baron is a stud whose producing like the All-Star he is. According to those who report on Nash's email, John passed... I questioned that from day 1.

STOMP


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## Sambonius (May 21, 2003)

STOMP said:


> kiddo? Seriously... pop your head out and enjoy the fresh air.


Looking for an ego boost huh? Don't be so defensive kiddo. 



> Their starting 4 is a double double machine whose one of the leading 3 pt% shooters in the league. He hasn't missed a game in a month plus and tonight he missed a game not to injury but for "personal reasons."


Having your starting PF lead the league in 3 pt % really isn't something to brag about, I think staying healthy and being there for your team consistently is more important. You saying He hasn't missed a game in a month is pretty funny, as if he deserves an accolade for doing so. 



> Dunleavy was tossed because he railed about a bogus charging call... he definitely lost his cool. We're all entitled to our opinion and all... but your claim  that he was tossed because his backup was outplaying him is a major stretch. 4 fouls in 11 minutes at home is probably more apprapro as to why he was frustrated, and the last foul was a plain stupid (if you were watching you'd know).



I did watch the whole play, and it wasn't very stupid. He dropped his shoulder and went through the defender, the call could have gone either way. Get off his sack. His backup has INDEED out played him since arriving to GS. For a former #3 pick, Dunleavy looks as soft as his Dad is when coaching. He's a bust thus far.



> Anyhoo, Baron is a stud whose producing like the All-Star he is. According to those who report on Nash's email, John passed... I questioned that from day 1.
> 
> STOMP


He's a former all-star, Dale Davis has been an all-star, Penny Hardaway too, doesn't really mean much because that was in the past. Though he's only 25 years old(less than a month from being 26), he's visibly out of his prime and is the biggest example of why owners want non-guaranteed contracts. He WAS a stud, I want to see him play a full season again before anyone crowns him as a stud, he's the NBA's new Allan Houston. I'm more than glad we passed on his injury prone butt. You would think the guy is made out of popsicle sticks with the games he misses.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

26 years old is not out of your prime.....


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

zagsfan20 said:


> 26 years old is not out of your prime.....


in fact according to most, it's two years from entering it. 

I don't root for MDjr or the W's any more then Dirk and the Mavs. I'm a Blazer fan who's not happy with our lousy team. Unfortunately (IMO) Nash passed on a major talent that could have really helped the club. 

I guess we'll see who's right down the line won't we Sam?

STOMP


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## Sambonius (May 21, 2003)

zagsfan20 said:


> 26 years old is not out of your prime.....


You're looking at age as the only factor. Generally you're right, but you aren't taking into account the injuries Baron Davis has gone through. He was a better player 2 years ago as opposed to now. Get you're stuff right. His prime was before he suffered so many injuries that put him out for so many games.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Sambonius said:


> You're looking at age as the only factor. Generally you're right, but you aren't taking into account the injuries Baron Davis has gone through. He was a better player 2 years ago as opposed to now. Get you're stuff right. His prime was before he suffered so many injuries that put him out for so many games.


yes you can put injuries into account but thats not what you said, you made a generalization that 26 years old is out of your prime....


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## Sambonius (May 21, 2003)

STOMP said:


> in fact according to most, it's two years from entering it.
> 
> I don't root for MDjr or the W's any more then Dirk and the Mavs. I'm a Blazer fan who's not happy with our lousy team. Unfortunately (IMO) Nash passed on a major talent that could have really helped the club.


So age is the only factor when deciding when someone hits their prime? You're way off base. Baron Davis was in his prime in his first 3 seasons, after those 3 seasons his game has taken a huge step back. He hasn't played a full season for 3 years. And you're trying to tell me he's not even in his prime? Boy you need to get in touch with reality. 



> I guess we'll see who's right down the line won't we Sam?


Right about what? It's not like GS is a playoff team WITH Baron Davis. They have a lot of nice young talent, if I was them I would focus on getting rid of Dunleavy asap, I think the kid from Phoenix has a lot of talent and can be more productive when given time, I always thought he could do well in this league. The Warriors team is so fragile, they have a bunch of guys that are lucky to even play a full season.


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## Sambonius (May 21, 2003)

zagsfan20 said:


> yes you can put injuries into account but thats not what you said, you made a generalization that 26 years old is out of your prime....


Go read what I wrote up. I said "though he is only 25, he is visibly out of his prime." Meaning it's not regular for players to be out of their prime at the age of 25. Read more carefully next time, it may help you make stronger cases in your responses.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Sambonius said:


> Go read what I wrote up. I said "though he is only 25, he is visibly out of his prime." Meaning it's not regular for players to be out of their prime at the age of 25. Read more carefully next time, it may help you make stronger cases in your responses.


And IMO he is not out of his prime......I have seen players get injuries early in their careers and still have great careers....


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## Sambonius (May 21, 2003)

zagsfan20 said:


> And IMO he is not out of his prime......I have seen players get injuries early in their careers and still have great careers....


How exactly is he not out of his prime? He hasn't played a full season for 3 years, his field goal percentage has dropped significantly EVERY year since his rookie year, his 3 point percentage has dropped every year since his 2nd year, his 2nd year he averaged 3 3-pointers a game, his 3rd and 4th he averaged 6, since then he has averaged from 8 to 9 3 pointers a game, that alone shows his injuries are so serious that he doesn't think he can consistently take the ball to the rim, he has to shoot 3 pointers at a much higher rate than before he got injured. His assists per game has gone down considerably since his 2nd season, his points have fluctuated up and down since his major injuries but at the expense of shooting worse and worse every year after his first. 

So again, how the hell is he IN his prime? He's defintly out. Not saying he can't contribute, but if one thing is apparent it is that Baron Davis isn't the same Baron Davis of 3 years ago. He's washed up when compared to his former self.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Sambonius said:


> How exactly is he not out of his prime? He hasn't played a full season for 3 years, his field goal percentage has dropped significantly EVERY year since his rookie year, his 3 point percentage has dropped every year since his 2nd year, his 2nd year he averaged 3 3-pointers a game, his 3rd and 4th he averaged 6, since then he has averaged from 8 to 9 3 pointers a game, that alone shows his injuries are so serious that he doesn't think he can consistently take the ball to the rim, he has to shoot 3 pointers at a much higher rate than before he got injured. His assists per game has gone down considerably since his 2nd season, his points have fluctuated up and down since his major injuries but at the expense of shooting worse and worse every year after his first.
> 
> So again, how the hell is he IN his prime? He's defintly out. Not saying he can't contribute, but if one thing is apparent it is that Baron Davis isn't the same Baron Davis of 3 years ago. He's washed up when compared to his former self.


Look at Grant Hill....He was an all star player and missed like 3 seasons due to injury and then he comes back this year and was a starter for the East all-star team at the age of 33


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## Sambonius (May 21, 2003)

zagsfan20 said:


> Look at Grant Hill....He was an all star player and missed like 3 seasons due to injury and then he comes back this year and was a starter for the East all-star team at the age of 33


But the fact is he is out of his prime. Is he a very good player? Yes. Is he the player he was 5 years ago? Absolutely not. It has more to do with injuries than age. I never said Baron can't be a good player, I said that he was out of his prime, which is true.


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## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

You guys are worse than the Bulls fans, jeez.

Pryz is untouchable!? What?! WHY would Seattle or New Jersey trade Ray/VC for Pryz and SAR. That is one of th worst trades I have ever seen.


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## white360 (Apr 24, 2004)

I don't see that happening, no way I would have traded VC for Reef


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## e_blazer1 (Feb 3, 2004)

TheATLien said:


> You guys are worse than the Bulls fans, jeez.
> 
> Pryz is untouchable!? What?! WHY would Seattle or New Jersey trade Ray/VC for Pryz and SAR. That is one of th worst trades I have ever seen.


Your comment reveals at least three problems:

A. You didn't read my original post very carefully. This whole thread is intended to be a discussion for Blazer fans of just how much they'd be willing to give up in order to acquire an All-Star player. No specific trade proposal was made. I only used Allen and Carter as examples of the kinds of players that I was talking about.

B. IMHO, you're totally out of touch with the NBA if you think that Seattle and New Jersey aren't going to be open to listening to offers for Allen and Carter. The primary reason: money. Seattle just isn't caving in to Allen's demands for a max contract because of the number of years he wants and his age. New Jersey now finds themselves with two longterm maximum contracts in Carter and Jefferson for players with very similar skills. They've got another max contract in the backcourt in Kidd. Meanwhile, they've got not much in the frontcourt while all of their major competition in the East has been adding frontcourt players. Something's got to give because I just don't see the Nets tying up most of their team salary for the next several years for players 6'6" or less in height.

C. While you accuse us of being homers who are overvaluing our players, I suspect the reality is that you haven't been paying attention to what Przybilla has been doing the second half of the season. Last game he put up 13 points, 21 boards, and 8 blocked shots. Show me another young center who can come close to a triple double like that. Now that he's back at his natural PF spot, Shareef has shown that he's still a guy who can average close to 20-10, and he's still fairly young at the age of 28. So, if you think Seattle or the Nets wouldn't at least be open to discussions about a trade of an aging All-Star for a talented pair of young front court players, I think you are off base. If you think they wouldn't consider it pretty strongly if the Blazers added a draft pick-potentially the number 5 or better-(which was also included in my original post), I think you're nuts. But then, now that I've written it out again, you may be right. That just could be one of the worst trades in NBA history---for the Blazers.


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## hasoos (Jan 3, 2003)

I would give up half the team for a player worth a damn. :banana:


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## Blazer Ringbearer (Jan 28, 2003)

Not to pile on Nash even more, but...

Signing Przybilla is one of the few things we've really given Nash credit for this year and even that he screwed up pretty big. 

Why sign a young, developing big man to a 2 year contract? Why didn't he do a 3 year deal - especially at that price?

My guess is that he didn't see this coming at all and didn't think Przybilla would make this kind of an impact on the team with Randolph, Rahim, and Ratliff all on board. He probably picked him up with the thought that he would be a stopgap backup center and wouldn't really break out of that role.

I guess it's hard to imagine that Ratliff would have been gimpy all year and Rahim, Randolph and Miles would all sit for huge stretches of the season. Nevertheless, I really wish he would have inked up a 3 year deal...


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## Petey (Aug 23, 2002)

e_blazer1 said:


> B. IMHO, you're totally out of touch with the NBA if you think that Seattle and New Jersey aren't going to be open to listening to offers for Allen and Carter. The primary reason: money. Seattle just isn't caving in to Allen's demands for a max contract because of the number of years he wants and his age. New Jersey now finds themselves with two longterm maximum contracts in Carter and Jefferson for players with very similar skills. They've got another max contract in the backcourt in Kidd. Meanwhile, they've got not much in the frontcourt while all of their major competition in the East has been adding frontcourt players. Something's got to give because I just don't see the Nets tying up most of their team salary for the next several years for players 6'6" or less in height.


Sorry buddy, you're totally out of touch with the NBA if you think the Nets will trade Carter. After Ratner decided to cut payroll, our attendance dropped 7% from an already horrible number, since adding Carter there has been more than a 6% increase. This is with our horrible start and only starting to get into the playoff race. Imagine the impact of Carter in Brooklyn. Remember what Carter did for the Raptors? He brought basketball to the attention of Canada. With the Nets in Knicks' territory, Ratner will never part with Carter unless it leads to us to a sure fire championship... IE Shaq.

Nor are Kidd and RJ going anywhere. The Nets just can't afford to upset fans, fans are upset enough they are moving.

-Petey


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## Blazer Ringbearer (Jan 28, 2003)

I would think they would take a long look at trading Jefferson for a big man... otherwise I think you make good points here.


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## Petey (Aug 23, 2002)

Blazer Ringbearer said:


> I would think they would take a long look at trading Jefferson for a big man... otherwise I think you make good points here.


Jefferson signed an extension like Zach did. With our lack of filler to make a BYC trade work, it'll be a long way to trading Jefferson. Most likely after the Nets move. Like I said, upset the fans and Ratner screws himself having to pay payroll out of pocket. He is more business man than looking to win. Why he let KMart go in the 1st place.

-Petey


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## Blazer Ringbearer (Jan 28, 2003)

I'm not saying it would have to happen right away. I just don't see them holding onto two talented players with such similar skill sets long term, if one could be used to address a serious need. They have so much money locked into positions 1-3 when having a solid post is very important to a team's success.

But perhaps they are adapting to each other and will mesh well long term. I don't watch the Nets enough to really weigh in on that. Maybe they'll pick up a solid big man in the draft too.


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

Sambonius said:


> Looking for an ego boost huh? Don't be so defensive kiddo.


condescending names are a crutch of the weak IMO...it's neither witty or appreciated here... of course we've been through this before, and you've been nicely asked to knock it off by posters and mods. Please do.



> Having your starting PF lead the league in 3 pt % really isn't something to brag about, I think staying healthy and being there for your team consistently is more important. You saying He hasn't missed a game in a month is pretty funny, as if he deserves an accolade for doing so.


Troy has been healthy... appearing in 55 of 67 games this season before missing last nights game to attend his grandmother's funeral. This fact makes your statement that _"There starting 4 is always injured so they should be used to that"_ to be typically inaccurate/par for your course. I'm not sure what your problem is with recognising someone who averages a double double and provides a quality threat along the perimeter... though it occurs to me you might yet again be arguing just for the sake of it. 



> I did watch the whole play, and it wasn't very stupid. He dropped his shoulder and went through the defender, the call could have gone either way. Get off his sack. His backup has INDEED out played him since arriving to GS. For a former #3 pick, Dunleavy looks as soft as his Dad is when coaching. He's a bust thus far.


The defender in this case (Dirk) was running with his back turned to him as Dunleavy filled the lane... there was no attempt to even pretend that his feet were set. It was an atrocious call. I'm no fan of MDjr, and I called him a reach when he went #3, but he has been playing his best ball of late. Over the past month he's averaging 14.5 pts on 47% from the field, making 1.6 3's, pulling 5.6 RBs, 2 Assts, 1 Stl... he's way too soft on D IMO, and if I were them I'd be looking to add another athlete at 3, but he has been decently productive. Anyways since they were already down one starting forward, I don't know how you can legitamately discount losing their other one as inconsequencial to the W's ability to compete... but then again you rarely seem to let logic get in your way. 



> He's a former all-star, Dale Davis has been an all-star, Penny Hardaway too, doesn't really mean much because that was in the past. Though he's only 25 years old(less than a month from being 26), he's visibly out of his prime and is the biggest example of why owners want non-guaranteed contracts. He WAS a stud, I want to see him play a full season again before anyone crowns him as a stud, he's the NBA's new Allan Houston. I'm more than glad we passed on his injury prone butt. You would think the guy is made out of popsicle sticks with the games he misses.


funny stuff... dude played 41 minutes last night on those popsicle sticks and put up All-Star numbers 22 points on 20 shots, 5 RBs, 8 Assts, 4 Stls... I could live with that. I don't think it's been a coincidense that the W's have been playing much better and winning more games since he arrived... but thats JMO.

STOMP


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## Sambonius (May 21, 2003)

STOMP said:


> condescending names are a crutch of the weak IMO...it's neither witty or appreciated here... of course we've been through this before, and you've been nicely asked to knock it off by posters and mods. Please do.


If you're offended than I can only imagine how high school was like for you. 



> Troy has been healthy... appearing in 55 of 67 games this season before missing last nights game to attend his grandmother's funeral. This fact makes your statement that _"There starting 4 is always injured so they should be used to that"_ to be typically inaccurate/par for your course. I'm not sure what your problem is with recognising someone who averages a double double and provides a quality threat along the perimeter... though it occurs to me you might yet again be arguing just for the sake of it.


How is it inaccurate when he missed 54 games last season? You're ignoring the past and in this type of response, you can't do that. I never said he's a bad player, in fact he's a good player but he's not reliable and he only shows up whenever he wants. I'd rather have my PF show up every game rather than lead the league in 3pt %. Rasheed shot 3s and people whined, Antoine Walker did it and people whined, I don't see why it needs to be any different this time around. 




> The defender in this case (Dirk) was running with his back turned to him as Dunleavy filled the lane... there was no attempt to even pretend that his feet were set. It was an atrocious call. I'm no fan of MDjr, and I called him a reach when he went #3, but he has been playing his best ball of late. Over the past month he's averaging 14.5 pts on 47% from the field, making 1.6 3's, pulling 5.6 RBs, 2 Assts, 1 Stl... he's way too soft on D IMO, and if I were them I'd be looking to add another athlete at 3, but he has been decently productive. Anyways since they were already down one starting forward, I don't know how you can legitamately discount losing their other one as inconsequencial to the W's ability to compete... but then again you rarely seem to let logic get in your way.


Many times the defense's feet isn't set, but you can't drop your shoulder and ram your way into the player and not be called for an offensive call. Either way he had no reason to flip out the way he did, other than his backup acquired from the Suns is playing better than he is in a year which makes him eligible for a contract extension. 




> funny stuff... dude played 41 minutes last night on those popsicle sticks and put up All-Star numbers 22 points on 20 shots, 5 RBs, 8 Assts, 4 Stls... I could live with that. I don't think it's been a coincidense that the W's have been playing much better and winning more games since he arrived... but thats JMO.


It is funny isn't it? Again, you're ignoring his past injuries and you're ignoring that at any moment he can fall apart like he usually does. How long do you really expect him to putting up those numbers before he hits the side lines with a new suit on? The same thinking would have loved to acquire the likes of Allan Houston, Penny Hardaway, and so on. The W's are indeed playing better, nobody can doubt that but at what price and for how long? You really do a wonderful job at ignoring the historical facts. Congrats.


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

Sambonius said:


> If you're offended than I can only imagine how high school was like for you.


I'm not offended, I just find namecalling to be lame/boring and generally detracting from discussing hoops. That it's not tolerated here is one of the reasons I post at bbb.net. Hey if namecalling is your thing check out Olive or any number of other boards... I'd be happy to link you them if you like. Either way, feel free to imagine away as to what HS was like for me... if thats how you want to live your life, glad to help.



> How is it inaccurate when he missed 54 games last season? You're ignoring the past and in this type of response, you can't do that. I never said he's a bad player, in fact he's a good player but he's not reliable and he only shows up whenever he wants. I'd rather have my PF show up every game rather than lead the league in 3pt %. Rasheed shot 3s and people whined, Antoine Walker did it and people whined, I don't see why it needs to be any different this time around.


Because this is this season we're talking about??? Heck only two of the W's starters from last year that (according to you) who should be used to playing without him are still in GS, and one of them was tossed after 11 minutes... and since when does he only show up when he wants? Dude's grandmother died. 

Even for you the statement that _"There starting 4 is always injured so they should be used to that"_ is unbelievable. The guys who were there last year while he was injured are almost all gone... only Dunleavy, Richardson, Foyal, Pietrus and Cheaney remain... and the last three I listed were their 9-12 men glued to the bench. On top of that they have a new coach/system... do you think it might help Montgomery to have one of the few guys who went through camp play? 

I've never read anyone else whining about him shooting 3s. In fact according to multiple reports, thats the skill the Warriors trainers have worked extensively developing the past two seasons. Deep threats along the perimeter are a good thing, just like it was a good thing with Wallace (oh god, here we go). Did you happen to catch Phil Jackson's comments during last year's championship series? When asked why he didn't try zoning the Pistons, he said (loosely quoting) _"Because they have guys like Rasheed who will kill us with the three pointer if I do that"_. Fans will whine about everything under the sun from length of players shorts to quality of wins... so what... coach's play their best and Troy averages 34 minutes per.



> It is funny isn't it? Again, you're ignoring his past injuries and you're ignoring that at any moment he can fall apart like he usually does. How long do you really expect him to putting up those numbers before he hits the side lines with a new suit on? The same thinking would have loved to acquire the likes of Allan Houston, Penny Hardaway, and so on. The W's are indeed playing better, nobody can doubt that but at what price and for how long? You really do a wonderful job at ignoring the historical facts.


If you mean ignoring the historical facts that have zero to do with anything, then thank you. For the sake of a sane conversation, I'm sure we all wish you were a lot better at that. Thankfully not everything you brought up is completely absurd. Baron does have a history of injuries. I would assume that anyone looking to trade for him would have to thoroughly look into them before assuming his huge contract... that would make a lot more sense then blindly assuming he's damaged goods and peaked at 25 IMO. Given the amazing advances of medical science and not being a doctor (let alone a doc who has checked him out), I really don't know what his prospects are. Maybe the wheels will fall off tomorrow, I really don't know. Warrior docs supposively checked him out before the trade though. Montgomery is so concerned about the fragile state of his new PG that he limited him to 41 minutes last night.

I happen to think a healthy Baron Davis is the best PG in the league. He clearly wanted out of George Shinns pathetic organization. He was there for the picking. Nash passed.

STOMP


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

Sambonius said:


> But the fact is he is out of his prime. Is he a very good player? Yes. Is he the player he was 5 years ago? Absolutely not. It has more to do with injuries than age. I never said Baron can't be a good player, I said that he was out of his prime, which is true.





> Right about what? It's not like GS is a playoff team WITH Baron Davis.


Bump... in the five games since this thread was last active, Baron Davis has been moving his walker around pretty well. In the 38 minutes Montgomery is limiting his fragile PG to...  ... BD has averaged 24 points on 49% from the field, 2.6 3's on 40%, 5.2 RBs, 10.4 Assts, 1.6 Stls. The Warriors won all 5 of those games, and 8 of their last 10. 

Basically your emphatically stated truisms look to be anything but in the short term. I guess that we'll just have to continue to watch how things play out down the road... feel free to bump this thread as necessary. While health is not guaranteed to any player, true talent is only bestowed on a select few. I for one wish the Blazer front office hadn't passed on Davis.

STOMP


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

But he's past his prime...... :raised_ey 

This is almost silly as the person who said that McInnis was a mistake to get rid of and he was the reason that the Cavs were leading their division.....

Oh what a couple of weeks will do.


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## Storyteller (Dec 31, 2002)

I'm reluctantly happy that the Blazers did not get B Davis.

Reluctantly because I recognize that Davis has talent and can take over a game at times.

But taking into consideration his health problems, his low shooting % (like Iverson, he scores a lot by shooting a lot), his monster contract, and the fact that him playing would take time away from Telfair....

Add it all together, and I'm glad the Blazers passed.

BTW, I think that GS had less to lose by going after Davis. They have certainly benefitted in the short term, and if he stays healthy, he will certainly continue to help them. And in time, I might very well change my mind on this issue. But today, I'm glad they passed.


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## Sambonius (May 21, 2003)

STOMP said:


> Bump... in the five games since this thread was last active, Baron Davis has been moving his walker around pretty well. In the 38 minutes Montgomery is limiting his fragile PG to...  ... BD has averaged 24 points on 49% from the field, 2.6 3's on 40%, 5.2 RBs, 10.4 Assts, 1.6 Stls. The Warriors won all 5 of those games, and 8 of their last 10.


Oh, I didn't know the last 5 games made up for the last 3 years. Oh. Yea the Warriors have won their last 5 games, but were any of those teams good? Seattle is the only exception and they were missing their 2nd best player and an All-Star. I never said Baron Davis couldn't play, I just said he is out of his prime, and he is. Until he plays a full season like he did 3 years ago, he'll continue to be out of his prime. Not to mention the last win against Seattle, he had 9 assists, but 8 turnovers. 



> Basically your emphatically stated truisms look to be anything but in the short term. I guess that we'll just have to continue to watch how things play out down the road... feel free to bump this thread as necessary. While health is not guaranteed to any player, true talent is only bestowed on a select few. I for one wish the Blazer front office hadn't passed on Davis.


Despite the Warriors' improvement since the Baron Davis acquisition I wouldn't want Davis to be acquired by the Blazers. Sure it's all good now, but that was the same attitude Bob Whitsitt had, he put everything on now and jeapordized the future. Allan Houston looks great too whenever he gets healthy and plays, but for how long does it last? We have to wait and see next year to see if Baron can really last a full season, its been a long long time since he has. Plus, we have a very capable up and coming PG as it is, I would in no way want to acquire Davis to delay the development of him.


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## Sambonius (May 21, 2003)

zagsfan20 said:


> This is almost silly as the person who said that McInnis was a mistake to get rid of and he was the reason that the Cavs were leading their division.....


Or when that "one guy" thought Adam Morrison is comparable to Larry Bird. Silly indeed.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Sambonius said:


> Or when that "one guy" thought Adam Morrison is comparable to Larry Bird. Silly indeed.


I said *resembles*.....

get your facts straight....


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## Sambonius (May 21, 2003)

zagsfan20 said:


> I said *resembles*.....
> 
> get your facts straight....



Yea, he might resemble Larry Bird if the one [STRIKE]watching him is on acid[/STRIKE].

Implying that a person is high is a personal attack, and not allowed here - gambitnut


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Sambonius said:


> Yea, he might resemble Larry Bird if the one watching him is on acid.


And he might not resemble Bird if the person doesnt watch him play as often as I do.....


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## Sambonius (May 21, 2003)

zagsfan20 said:


> And he might not resemble Bird if the person doesnt watch him play as often as I do.....


Frankly, [STRIKE]your Adam Morrison threads and posts are becoming a little to ****-erotic for my taste[/STRIKE], I must leave.

So is implying that a person is homosexual - gambitnut


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Sambonius said:


> Frankly, your Adam Morrison threads and posts are becoming a little to ****-erotic for my taste, I must leave.


I never bring him up.......I actually dont ever think that I have brought up a subject on this Blazer board about Morrison, with the exception of the time I made a post that he was staying in school....


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

first of all...http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=nbaplayersoftheweek&prov=st&type=lgns



Sambonius said:


> Oh, I didn't know the last 5 games made up for the last 3 years.


??? 2 of those years he was an All Star leading one of the most pathetic franchises in all of sports to respectability/playoffs. Seriously, IMO George Shinn and the Hornets are the worst owner and franchise going... the guy managed to make hoops unpopular in North Carolina. Now in New Orleans, Shinn has managed to bungle his way to the lowest attendance average and a roster that makes the Bobcats looked stocked. I'm sure that it was a less then ideal environment for Baron to be in, and I don't really blame him for doing all that he could to force his way out. I'm also not surprised that now somewhat healthy, he's playing so well now that he's surrounded by better players and on a franchise that is spending what it takes to win... I remember what that was like btw...



> I never said Baron Davis couldn't play, I just said he is out of his prime, and he is.
> 
> Despite the Warriors' improvement since the Baron Davis acquisition I wouldn't want Davis to be acquired by the Blazers. Sure it's all good now, but that was the same attitude Bob Whitsitt had, he put everything on now and jeapordized the future.


You know I could tell you the sky is green till I'm blue in the face, repeating this a 10,000th time doesn't make it any more or less true. I'm pretty sure though that if Baron keeps posting stats and wins at nearly the rate he's been, that some All-Star crow will be yours in the very near future... heck Baron may even start.

Every player is at risk of injury. One of the great thing about sports these days is that modern science/medicine has advanced so much. Not only can guys be repaired surgically, but they can do therapy to strengthen at risk body parts... thats why you see the careers of so many top athletes lasting so much longer. Medical science has also become much more advanced at diagnosing things before they happen. I give the facts that Warrior doctors reportedly did check him out and advised management to proceed with the trade much more weight then your pessimistic guesses about the future. 

Given all this and how well he's been playing, I think it's pretty odd that apparently you're going to stick to your guns about a 25 year old risking the future of this franchise, especially since Nash has already committed the club to operating over the cap for a while. Since it cost GS only two expiring deals that equate to about the same dollars as Van Exel's deal, I'm pretty sure Baron could have been Portland bound with a future pick included to better the Warrior offer. I think his presence would have benefitted all of their other guards, even precious Telfair as BD is big enough to guard many 2s. 

I'm sure I won't be the only one keeping an eye on this.

STOMP


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## Sambonius (May 21, 2003)

STOMP said:


> first of all...http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=nbaplayersoftheweek&prov=st&type=lgns


Wow. I'm sure Damon Stoudamire and Antoine Walker has gotten some of those before too. That doesn't insure the acquisition any more or less. 


??? 2 of those years he was an All Star leading one of the most pathetic franchises in all of sports to respectability/playoffs. [/QUOTE]

Are you sure you would say lead? You don't think Mashburn, PJ Brown, David Wesley, and Magloire had anything to do with that? You noticed how since Mashburn has been injured, Davis hasn't been able to win? 



> Seriously, IMO George Shinn and the Hornets are the worst owner and franchise going... the guy managed to make hoops unpopular in North Carolina. Now in New Orleans, Shinn has managed to bungle his way to the lowest attendance average and a roster that makes the Bobcats looked stocked. I'm sure that it was a less then ideal environment for Baron to be in, and I don't really blame him for doing all that he could to force his way out. I'm also not surprised that now somewhat healthy, he's playing so well now that he's surrounded by better players and on a franchise that is spending what it takes to win... I remember what that was like btw...


Agreed, but it happens too often where a player whines so much about the team he's on and that they have to trade him. Tough it out. If you're being paid like a superstar then you should start playing like one and win. 




> You know I could tell you the sky is green till I'm blue in the face, repeating this a 10,000th time doesn't make it any more or less true. I'm pretty sure though that if Baron keeps posting stats and wins at nearly the rate he's been, that some All-Star crow will be yours in the very near future... heck Baron may even start.


You really think Baron Davis is in his prime? You really think he is the player he was 3 years ago? I don't think anyone can say Baron is the player he was 3 years ago. It IS a fact that he is out of his prime, don't try and say otherwise. It doesn't mean he's terrible, he's just not the player he was before, same can be said about Shaq, he is also out of his prime. Get over it. 



> Every player is at risk of injury. One of the great thing about sports these days is that modern science/medicine has advanced so much. Not only can guys be repaired surgically, but they can do therapy to strengthen at risk body parts... thats why you see the careers of so many top athletes lasting so much longer. Medical science has also become much more advanced at diagnosing things before they happen. I give the facts that Warrior doctors reportedly did check him out and advised management to proceed with the trade much more weight then your pessimistic guesses about the future.


Yea science has advanced so much, but we still don't know 1% of it, and we likely never will. I'm anxious to see what modern science/medicine does for TJ Ford and Jay Williams. 



> Given all this and how well he's been playing, I think it's pretty odd that apparently you're going to stick to your guns about a 25 year old risking the future of this franchise, especially since Nash has already committed the club to operating over the cap for a while.


Because you think Nash has made some dumb decisions, you think he should continue to make them? I like Baron Davis and always loved him when he was healthy but he IS out of his prime. He can definitly help a team I think, but for how long is the question, and at what price? 



> Since it cost GS only two expiring deals that equate to about the same dollars as Van Exel's deal, I'm pretty sure Baron could have been Portland bound with a future pick included to better the Warrior offer.
> 
> Probably.
> 
> ...


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

> You really think Baron Davis is in his prime? You really think he is the player he was 3 years ago? I don't think anyone can say Baron is the player he was 3 years ago. It IS a fact that he is out of his prime, don't try and say otherwise. It doesn't mean he's terrible, he's just not the player he was before, same can be said about Shaq, he is also out of his prime. Get over it.


Sure he's out of his prime a little bit, but he is 10X better than any SG on this roster....He would have been a good fit, too match up with Telfair in the backcourt for the future.....


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

Sam, I could respond to nearly every sentence...but why? Obviously you live in a really different world then I do, and thats fine by me. Unfortunately that doesnt seem to go the other way with comments that your silly opinions are somehow facts and your _"don't try and say otherwise"_ comedy routine. 

Davis is an explosive, difference making, yet to enter his prime All NBA stud talent IMO. He's washed up, too small and slow, scattershot, whiney, injury waiting to happen loser according to you. 

Not that we'd hope to agree on what the results mean, but we'll see what happens.

STOMP


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## Sambonius (May 21, 2003)

STOMP said:


> Sam, I could respond to nearly every sentence...but why? Obviously you live in a really different world then I do, and thats fine by me. Unfortunately that doesnt seem to go the other way with comments that your silly opinions are somehow facts and your _"don't try and say otherwise"_ comedy routine.


Is Baron Davis a better player than he was 3 years ago? If the answer is yes, then that would mean he IS in his prime, or yet to enter it. If the answer is no, then that would mean he is OUT of his prime. The obvious answer to this is no, he is not the player he was 3 years ago. He was one of the best players 3 or 4 years ago, now he is just a good player. Even your only supporter in this thread acknowledges that Baron is out of his prime. 



> Davis is an explosive, difference making, yet to enter his prime All NBA stud talent IMO.


Explosive? Maybe the 8 or 9 three pointers a game from 4 or 5 proves he is explosive, shoot. I don't even think HE would say he is explosive, or else he wouldn't be shooting so many threes. Difference making? Yes, he is when healthy. He is out of his prime unfortunately, though the good news is that he is still only 25. Golden State fans should thank the lord every night Baron Davis gets through a full game. 



> He's washed up, too small and slow, scattershot, whiney, injury waiting to happen loser according to you.


"They mostly come out at night......mostly." - Eric Cartman



> Not that we'd hope to agree on what the results mean, but we'll see what happens.


It will be quite a long field study, 3 or 4 years should be sufficient.


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

Sambonius said:


> Is Baron Davis a better player than he was 3 years ago? If the answer is yes, then that would mean he IS in his prime, or yet to enter it. If the answer is no, then that would mean he is OUT of his prime. The obvious answer to this is no, he is not the player he was 3 years ago. He was one of the best players 3 or 4 years ago, now he is just a good player. Even your only supporter in this thread acknowledges that Baron is out of his prime.


Great logic Sam. You know instead of just speculating over why things might be why they are and then assuming your guesses hold water, why not do some research?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=1998925

Baron Davis has missed games this year to minor injuries to his ankle and heel. His knees and back checked out fine. Is he 100% today? Nope. According to reports, he's also playing through a strained hammy. While those sorts of injuries do effect a players abilities, they have little effect on their longterm prospects and hardly condemn a player to the downside of their career.

It's suprising to see you pointing to my few supporters in this thread, as you're pretty much always at it alone. I'd guess that others are avoiding chiming in mostly because of whose involved and how typically random your points are. 



> It will be quite a long field study, 3 or 4 years should be sufficient.


His contract goes on another 4 years after this one (when he's 30), but I think things will be crystal clear as to whether this was a good move for the W's much sooner then that... well clear to most anyways.

STOMP


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## Sambonius (May 21, 2003)

STOMP said:


> Great logic Sam. You know instead of just speculating over why things might be why they are and then assuming your guesses hold water, why not do some research?


Way to NOT respond to my response! Because you know Davis is indeed out of his prime. Next. 



> Baron Davis has missed games this year to minor injuries to his ankle and heel. His knees and back checked out fine.


These wouldn't happen to be Terry Shaivo's doctors would they? It takes more than this year to determine if he is going to be healthy for the rest of his career, don't be so short sighted. 



> Is he 100% today? Nope. According to reports, he's also playing through a strained hammy. While those sorts of injuries do effect a players abilities, they have little effect on their longterm prospects and hardly condemn a player to the downside of their career.


You don't even need to bring up the minor injuries showing or not showing he's on the downside of his career, you can just look at his stats and you'd have your answer. 



> It's suprising to see you pointing to my few supporters in this thread, as you're pretty much always at it alone. I'd guess that others are avoiding chiming in mostly because of whose involved and how typically random your points are.


I didn't know I had an admirer in here. I don't rely on others to support my cause, I do that myself. The only other person who has chimed this far into the thread which was supporting you even thought Baron was out of his prime, get a clue dude. 




> His contract goes on another 4 years after this one (when he's 30), but I think things will be crystal clear as to whether this was a good move for the W's much sooner then that... well clear to most anyways.


Giddy up.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Sambonius here is a little food for thought on your theory that Baron is washed up.....

Last night in their win vs. Houston
Baron went:
11-20 fg, 3-6 from 3's, 15-16 Ft, 13 asts, 5 stls and 5 rebs in 39 mins.

That is one of the better stat lines I have seen all year, especially for a guy who is "washed up".....Not to mention scoring 29, 33 and 25 in consecutive games....

Now I know you are going to counter with that it was just one game......But since he has joined the Warriors the team has made a vast improvement (13-6 since his arrival) and have beaten playoff teams to boot (Washington, Phoenix, Sacramento twice, Seattle and Philly)......Doesn't sound like someone washed up to me....

Giddy up.


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

zagsfan20 said:


> Sambonius here is a little food for thought on your theory that Baron is washed up.....
> 
> Last night in their win vs. Houston
> Baron went:
> ...


You left off that he scored 40 points, which is a new career high. The W's have now won 7 strait and 9 of 10. I wonder how he'll do tonight...

STOMP


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## Sambonius (May 21, 2003)

zagsfan20 said:


> Sambonius here is a little food for thought on your theory that Baron is washed up.....
> 
> Last night in their win vs. Houston
> Baron went:
> ...


He had a fantastic night last night, that can't be denied. He probably had a bigger night than Tracy McGrady did last night too, and was the reason his team won. Again, this argument goes past last night and certainly past this season to judge. I'm happy for him and I hope he stays healthy, but Allan Houston has those nights too when he actually plays and is healthy. We'll see.


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

Sambonius said:


> Way to NOT respond to my response! Because you know Davis is indeed out of his prime. Next.


I answered your silly ponderings about Baron supposively being out of his prime several times... but one more time just for you... *IMO his best years are ahead of him*.



> I didn't know I had an admirer in here. I don't rely on others to support my cause, I do that myself. The only other person who has chimed this far into the thread which was supporting you even thought Baron was out of his prime, get a clue dude.


I'm not sure how you gathered that impression (you having an admirer). Read and comprehend what is written, and then respond.

STOMP


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## Sambonius (May 21, 2003)

Update. Baron Davis shoots more than half his field goals from beyond the 3 point line, again this proves he isn't confident about himself attacking the rim. Not to mention his horrendous field goal % tonight.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Sambonius said:


> Update. Baron Davis shoots more than half his field goals from beyond the 3 point line, again this proves he isn't confident about himself attacking the rim. Not to mention his horrendous field goal % tonight.


Did you not watch last nights game?......

Baron had a bad game, whoopdie doo.....He still got 22 and 11 on a bad night, which is better than our guards performances on their best games of the season....


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

Sambonius said:


> Update. Baron Davis shoots more than half his field goals from beyond the 3 point line, again this proves he isn't confident about himself attacking the rim. Not to mention his horrendous field goal % tonight.


you're too funny Sam... who was the best player of the game? Lets ask our friends at the AP... http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/recap?gid=2005040622

For a guy who doesn't attack the rim, he sure gets to the line a lot... he's made 25 FTs in the last two games.

Update... Warriors have now won 10 of their last 11. The night before in the Oakland, fans were chanting MVP through stretches of the 2nd half. The topic of the day on local Bay Area sports talk was is Baron the best Warrior since Thurman and Barry. Their attendance has taken off. Good thing BD's not a Blazer.

Thanks for your timely updates that prove my points... keep them coming.

STOMP


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## Sambonius (May 21, 2003)

STOMP said:


> you're too funny Sam... who was the best player of the game? Lets ask our friends at the AP... http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/recap?gid=2005040622


That's not saying much since we are one of the worst teams in the league. I'd probably make a vote for Ruben Patterson or Shareef, but Baron is legit. 



> For a guy who doesn't attack the rim, he sure gets to the line a lot... he's made 25 FTs in the last two games.


He also shoots an unexceptionally high amount of 3 pointers. When you shoot more 3 pointers than 2 pointers on a regular basis, something is wrong. I don't want another Damon Stoudamire on our hands. 



> Update... Warriors have now won 10 of their last 11. The night before in the Oakland, fans were chanting MVP through stretches of the 2nd half. The topic of the day on local Bay Area sports talk was is Baron the best Warrior since Thurman and Barry. Their attendance has taken off. Good thing BD's not a Blazer.


They said the same thing about a lot of players. Penny Hardaway, Grant Hill, Vince Cater, etc. Doesn't mean a thing. Baron is doing great for them for the time being but I STILL wouldn't take the gamble on him, why? Because it was clear he wasn't even trying to play for his last team because they weren't winning. I wonder after how long he would have pulled the same stunt with the Blazers? Same with Vince Cater, and I love Vince but I don't want players to pick and choose when they are going to play. Similar to Van Excel, but it would be even worse if it was someone of star status such as Vince or Baron. Let's see how long it goes before the Warriors start losing and Baron mysteriously gets injured again. 



> Thanks for your timely updates that prove my points... keep them coming.


You proved your point? That Baron Davis is STILL out of his prime? Just look at the stats, they don't lie. You can think what you want, but his stats indicate that he isn't the player he was 3 years ago, and he simply isn't. Is he still a good player when healthy? Yes. But I still shut your whole discussion down about how he is in his prime, he clearly isn't and nobody even himself can't deny that.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

> You proved your point? That Baron Davis is STILL out of his prime? Just look at the stats, they don't lie. You can think what you want, but his stats indicate that he isn't the player he was 3 years ago, and he simply isn't.


How can you just pick and choose whatever stats ...You disregard his performance last night 40 point 13 assist....and then today you degrade his subpar performance....Be consistent....


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## Sambonius (May 21, 2003)

zagsfan20 said:


> How can you just pick and choose whatever stats ...You disregard his performance last night 40 point 13 assist....and then today you degrade his subpar performance....Be consistent....


When did I disregard? Didn't you see my post stating that he indeed had a fantastic game? He had a great game last night and I hope he continues it throughout next season but it is too early to say just like all those times everyone said Shawn Kemp was making a comeback, Grant Hill, or Penny Hardaway.


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## e_blazer1 (Feb 3, 2004)

On the main topic of this thread, "What's an All-Star worth?", I noticed this quote from Kevin Pritchard in this morning's Jason Quick column in the Oregonian:

_"You bring in one (superstar) and everyone else gets more confident," Blazers interim coach Kevin Pritchard said. "A superstar has the ability to raise everyone else's level." _ 

He was talking about the impact that adding Baron Davis has had on the Warriors. Kind of interesting to see the guy that we all seem to think will be the next Blazers GM talking that way. I absolutely agree with him. This franchise hasn't had a true All-Star since Clyde left. More than adding one or two hot young prospects, this team needs a proven All-Star veteran to help turn things around. The confidence that such a player can give to other guys on the team can really raise the level of play overall. I'm sure that the impact of an All-Star on ticket sales hasn't gone unnoticed by the Blazers' marketing department either. Whether or not it's Vince Carter is irrelevant. I think the Blazers are going to make a major push this summer to land an All-Star.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Another big game for Baron, 38 points, 9 assists and 6 rebounds....He's making a habit of it....

Baron is truly out of his prime...HAHAHA :laugh: 

I think it was more of a case of Baron being fed up with New Orleans then an aching knee....


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