# Official Draft Marvin Williams! Thread



## DHarris34Phan

*Marvin provides us with the true franchise player that we haven't had since Ray Allen or Glenn Robinson. He also allows Desmond Mason to move to the 6th man role, where he flourished. Our fastbreads with Ford, Redd and Williams would be very exciting also. Our depth chart would look like this:

PG: TJ Ford/ Mo Williams
SG: Michael Redd/ (2nd Round Pick)
SF: Marvin Williams/ Desmond Mason (6th Man)/Toni Kukoc
PF: Joe Smith/ Zaza Pachulia 
C: Dan Gadzuric/ Calvin Booth

Our front court still lacks a true presence, but is still very serviceable. I haven't included what we will do with around 10 million dollars of caproom, so our front court could be upgraded.....

This team is very promising!*


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## DHarris34Phan

*Marvin Williams*​
Strengths: 
Elite level athlete, Very quick and agile for a player of his size... Can play any position on the floor effectively.. Never out-worked or out-hustled... Doesn’t take plays off... Excellent form on jumper... NBA range... Very effective when facing the hoop as he has a quick first step and utilizes his jabs and fakes to perfection... Court awareness is that of a vet... Finds teammates from anywhere on the court...An excellent passer from any spot on the floor who possesses great knowledge of the game.... At 6-9 he handles like a guard and has excellent touch out to 17 feet.... Great rebounder because of his size and ability to get off the ground quickly... Big game player... Plays his best in the clutch... A quick leaper who plays well above the rim. Has tremendous potential.

Weaknesses:
Here might lay the biggest question mark with Marvin. While his versatility can viewed as a strength, the fact he is still a bit of a tweener can not. Is he going to primarily play small forward or power forward in the NBA? Can he become great at one of the forward spots or will he merely be good at both? That’s the tough part about Marvin. At this point in his career it’s almost impossible to project just what kind of player he is going to be or what position he will end up playing the most.

_from draftcity.com and nbadraft.net_


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## DHarris34Phan

*On Draftcity.com, they don't have any "best case scenarios" for Marvin. I was thinking that Marvin could be a more versitile Amare Stoudemire....what do you guys think?*


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## BEEZ

DHarris34Phan said:


> *On Draftcity.com, they don't have any "best case scenarios" for Marvin. I was thinking that Marvin could be a more versitile Amare Stoudemire....what do you guys think?*


 The same things were said about Tim Thomas


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## DHarris34Phan

BEEZ said:


> The same things were said about Tim Thomas


*That is very true...Tim Thomas is eerily similar to Marvin Williams, but I from what I hear, Marvin is the anti Tim Thomas when it comes to work ethic, attitude, etc. *


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## DHarris34Phan

*Marvin will be best, Majerus says*
_from jsonline.com:_


> Rick Majerus recruited and coached 7-foot center Andrew Bogut at Utah. The former Utes coach also tried to recruit 6-9 forward Marvin Williams, who chose to attend North Carolina and play for one season before turning pro.
> 
> In Majerus' opinion, if the Milwaukee Bucks keep the No. 1 pick won Tuesday night in the draft lottery, Milwaukee will take either Bogut or Williams in the National Basketball Association draft on June 28.
> 
> That's assuming the Bucks like their young point guard, Mo Williams, and want to go forward with him and/or T.J. Ford, whose playing future has been threatened by a spine injury.
> 
> According to Majerus, it's a two-player race if Milwaukee stays at No. 1.
> 
> Three other players in Majerus' top five, 6-4 guard Deron Williams of Illinois, 6-0 guard Chris Paul of Wake Forest and 6-8 high school forward Gerald Green of Gulf Shores Academy in Houston, will be successes in the NBA but he does not think they are worthy of being chosen No. 1.
> 
> So whom should the Bucks take at No. 1?
> 
> "If it was my job, I'd know," Majerus said during a phone conversation Tuesday afternoon. "But it's not my job. I coached Bogut and recruited him. I know Williams. I think they almost got to take Bogut if they like Mo Williams. But I think five years out in this draft it will be Marvin Williams who will be the best player. Don't forget, it took a long time for Tracy McGrady and Kevin Garnett to emerge."


*LINK *


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## Nimreitz

They need to take Marv and stick him at the 4. I think best case is Shawn Marion. TJ, Redd, Mase, Marv, and Gadz is just scary plus Marv actually fits into the fast break offense that we run unlike Bogut. And also I think he could be much better than Big Dog or Ray Ray. I don't even see the debate in this situation, the pick HAS to be Marvin Williams.


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## Geaux Tigers

Uhmmm I wouldnt gamble on Marvin Williams...Why dont you guys just draft Bogut and let a team like New Orleans take the huge gamble on Marvin Williams. I mean do you guys really need allllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll that talent...:laugh::biggrin:


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## jalen5

Nimreitz said:


> They need to take Marv and stick him at the 4. I think best case is Shawn Marion. TJ, Redd, Mase, Marv, and Gadz is just scary plus Marv actually fits into the fast break offense that we run unlike Bogut. And also I think he could be much better than Big Dog or Ray Ray. I don't even see the debate in this situation, the pick HAS to be Marvin Williams.



Well I agree with you that the pick should be Marvin Williams. However, the best case scenario for how Marvin Williams will turn out is not Shawn Marion. Marvin has a chance to be special. He will be better than Shawn Marion.

But I agree with Jsimo12. I don't think Milwaukee should take Marvin, just take Bogut. And same goes for Atlanta and Portland, take Paul and Green. I say let Marvin fall out of the top 3. That would probably be the best thing to do for those 3 teams.


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## Dissonance

DHarris34Phan said:


> *Marvin provides us with the true franchise player that we haven't had since Ray Allen or Glenn Robinson. He also allows Desmond Mason to move to the 6th man role, where he flourished. Our fastbreads with Ford, Redd and Williams would be very exciting also. Our depth chart would look like this:
> 
> PG: TJ Ford/ Mo Williams
> SG: Michael Redd/ (2nd Round Pick)
> SF: Marvin Williams/ Desmond Mason (6th Man)/Toni Kukoc
> PF: Joe Smith/ Zaza Pachulia
> C: Dan Gadzuric/ Calvin Booth
> 
> Our front court still lacks a true presence, but is still very serviceable. I haven't included what we will do with around 10 million dollars of caproom, so our front court could be upgraded.....
> 
> This team is very promising!*


:jawdrop: Whoa, what happened? You wanted Bogut, not even 24 hrs ago? Why the change of mind?


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## DHarris34Phan

Nimreitz said:


> They need to take Marv and stick him at the 4. I think best case is Shawn Marion. TJ, Redd, Mase, Marv, and Gadz is just scary plus Marv actually fits into the fast break offense that we run unlike Bogut. And also I think he could be much better than Big Dog or Ray Ray. I don't even see the debate in this situation, the pick HAS to be Marvin Williams.


*You have a great point, as our fast break would be outstanding. I think Larry Harris and the Front Office will take that into account. TJ isn't strictly a fast break PG though, and he can play a half court type game. The next month of workouts and interviews will definitly give us a better indication on who we are going to pick, and why.*


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## DHarris34Phan

dissonance19 said:


> :jawdrop: Whoa, what happened? You wanted Bogut, not even 24 hrs ago? Why the change of mind?


*I am not changing my mind. I obviously like Bogut alot more, but I am still open to drafting Marvin Williams. There are positives with both players, and I am looking at the best possible scenarios if either is drafted.

It is a win/win situation for the Bucks IMO.*


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## Dissonance

DHarris34Phan said:


> *I am not changing my mind. I obviously like Bogut alot more, but I am still open to drafting Marvin Williams. There are positives with both players, and I am looking at the best possible scenarios if either is drafted.
> 
> It is a win/win situation for the Bucks IMO.*


Ah ok. Yeah I didn't see the Bogut one. Oops. I take back my jaw drop. :biggrin:


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## DHarris34Phan

dissonance19 said:


> Ah ok. Yeah I didn't see the Bogut one. Oops. I take back my jaw drop. :biggrin:


*Do you know much about Marvin Williams? I have seen him sparangly, but not enough to make a really accurate comparison. Based soley on scouting reports, I think he could be an Amare Stoudemire type player. Who wouldn't want that? If you can answer, would you agree?*


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## Dissonance

DHarris34Phan said:


> *Do you know much about Marvin Williams? I have seen him sparangly, but not enough to make a really accurate comparison. Based soley on scouting reports, I think he could be an Amare Stoudemire type player. Who wouldn't want that? If you can answer, would you agree?*


Well, I haven't seen him play THAT much but I know he's a pretty good shooter, he can hit mid range shots and 3 pters from what I've seen. Something Stoudemire has had to develop and is not that great in those areas. Marvin is also not as nearly as athletic, quick or as strong as Stoudemire. But I don't know, I don't like that comparison of him. They're different style of players. And I can't see him becoming that type of player. I will say Marvin may have better back to the basket moves from what I've seen. But to me I don't think he should play PF. He'd be a match up problem for SF's at 6'9 with his length. It's hard to say what type of player Marvin will turn out to be. Even comparing him. He has tremendous potential.


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## DHarris34Phan

dissonance19 said:


> Well, I haven't seen him play THAT much but I know he's a pretty good shooter, he can hit mid range shots and 3 pters from what I've seen. Something Stoudemire has had to develop and is not that great in those areas. Marvin is also not as nearly as athletic, quick or as strong as Stoudemire. But I don't know, I don't like that comparison of him. They're different style of players. And I can't see him becoming that type of player. I will say Marvin may have better back to the basket moves from what I've seen. But to me I don't think he should play PF. He'd be a match up problem for SF's at 6'9 with his length. It's hard to say what type of player Marvin will turn out to be. Even comparing him. He has tremendous potential.


*See, that is the thing. If we are getting a top tier SF, that is awesome, but what Championship teams were built around a SF?!? They are built around Centers, Point Guards, and SG's! 

Look at the Lakers, Pistons, Spurs! The Lakers were winning championships with Rick Fox at the 3, Pistons with Prince (who is great, but was picked in the 20's!) and the Spurs with Bruce Bowen! The point is, Small Forwards are fairly easy to come by, and in the Bucks case, we don't need his offense, I would rather have a Tayshaun Prince or Bruce Bowen! 

If Marvin Williams proves that he can play the 4 effectivley, then he is more valuable, but if he is going to be a SF in the NBA, which I think he will be, I will take my chances on the Free Agent market!*


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## jalen5

DHarris34Phan said:


> *See, that is the thing. If we are getting a top tier SF, that is awesome, but what Championship teams were built around a SF?!? They are built around Centers, Point Guards, and SG's!
> 
> Look at the Lakers, Pistons, Spurs! The Lakers were winning championships with Rick Fox at the 3, Pistons with Prince (who is great, but was picked in the 20's!) and the Spurs with Bruce Bowen! The point is, Small Forwards are fairly easy to come by, and in the Bucks case, we don't need his offense, I would rather have a Tayshaun Prince or Bruce Bowen!
> 
> If Marvin Williams proves that he can play the 4 effectivley, then he is more valuable, but if he is going to be a SF in the NBA, which I think he will be, I will take my chances on the Free Agent market!*


Yea, but look at the center those teams had and look at their 3 men. Tayshaun Prince and Bruce Bowen are NOT ordinary 3 men. They are defensive specialists that change the game on the defensive side of the floor, a rarity in the NBA these days. The Lakers had Shaq. Bogut is no Shaq. Not to mention they had Kobe Bryant so it doesn't really matter who else is on the team when u have Kobe and Shaq. The Spurs have Tim Duncan. Bogut is no Tim Duncan. And Bruce Bowen is a vital piece of that team. He is a SHUT DOWN DEFENDER. The Pistons have Ben Wallace, who is known for his DEFENSE, not his offense (unlike Bogut). In that regard, Bogut is no Ben Wallace. And the Pistons 3 is Tayshaun Prince (see Bruce Bowen and add a jump shot and athleticism) We can even go back to the 1990's. The Rockets had Hakeem Olajuwon. Bogut is no Hakeem Olajuwon. The Bulls had Luc Longley, Will Perdue, Brian Williams, Bill Wennington -- any no name center u can think of -- but they had MICHAEL JORDAN AND SCOTTIE PIPPEN so their team was obviously never molded around a center. My point is, the only time championship teams are molded around centers is when that center is one of a kind and very, very dominant on BOTH ends of the floor like Shaq, Duncan, and Olajuwon are/were. While I think Bogut will be a very good center, I don't think he is of that caliber.


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## DHarris34Phan

jalen5 said:


> Yea, but look at the center those teams had and look at their 3 men. Tayshaun Prince and Bruce Bowen are NOT ordinary 3 men. They are defensive specialists that change the game on the defensive side of the floor, a rarity in the NBA these days. The Lakers had Shaq. Bogut is no Shaq. Not to mention they had Kobe Bryant so it doesn't really matter who else is on the team when u have Kobe and Shaq. The Spurs have Tim Duncan. Bogut is no Tim Duncan. And Bruce Bowen is a vital piece of that team. He is a SHUT DOWN DEFENDER. The Pistons have Ben Wallace, who is known for his DEFENSE, not his offense (unlike Bogut). In that regard, Bogut is no Ben Wallace. And the Pistons 3 is Tayshaun Prince (see Bruce Bowen and add a jump shot and athleticism) We can even go back to the 1990's. The Rockets had Hakeem Olajuwon. Bogut is no Hakeem Olajuwon. The Bulls had Luc Longley, Will Perdue, Brian Williams, Bill Wennington -- any no name center u can think of -- but they had MICHAEL JORDAN AND SCOTTIE PIPPEN so their team was obviously never molded around a center. My point is, the only time championship teams are molded around centers is when that center is one of a kind and very, very dominant on BOTH ends of the floor like Shaq, Duncan, and Olajuwon are/were. While I think Bogut will be a very good center, I don't think he is of that caliber.


*I wasn't trying to compare Bogut to these guys, and if I sounded that way, it was a mistake. I am just tryiing to get the point across on what I think makes a title contender. With Michael Redd as an All-Star calibur SG, and TJ Ford as a potential All-Star, all we need in our foundation right now is a legitimate Center. Bogut is a legitimate center. Put quality role players around these guys (Desmond Mason, Zaza Pachulia, Gadzuric) and you already have a winning team. Get an established PF (ala Rasheed Wallace for the Pistons) and in 2 seasons, you have a title contender, with a still decently young team!*


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## Nimreitz

In my opinion the center is the least important position in the modern NBA. There are so few top tier centers (and once Shaq leaves there really isn't a dominant unstoppable one left) that all you really need is a guy who will bring solid D. If your center doesn't hurt you everything's peachy. I think championship teams can be built with any combination of players as long as they play well together and there's talent and depth. The Pistons are tough to examine because they are solid pretty much everywhere, but let's look at the past few champs... 2003 Spurs - Tim Duncan playing PF not Center, Bruce Bowen at SF, and a young Tony Parker. The Center on this team was Malik Rose. 2000-2002 Lakers. Shaq and Kobe. Basically you had the most dominant Center EVER, and one of the best wings in the game. Besides that it was solid role players. 1999 Spurs - Twin Towers, did they even have a point guard? And before that it was Michael, Scottie, and Rodman, which in case you don't know recorded 72 wins and those three star players were SG, SF, and PF. Best team in NBA history without even quality Point Guards or Centers. Hmmm

Oh, and just to put it out there, there is effectively no difference between a Shooting Guard and a Small Forward. I can't understand at all how you say the Shooting Guard is really important and the Small Forward is a throw away. The most important position in today's NBA is the Poward Forward position. The Championship teams have elite Power Forwards or Shaq. All of them. Big Ben/Sheed, Duncan, Amare, Dirk, JO, K-Mart, Gasol. It's the new breed of super freaks, and it is the position that makes and breaks a team. The imbalance in poward forward talent 2-5 years ago is the reason why the West was so much better, not Shaq (although he didn't hurt).

What I'm saying is we gotta take our crack at a superstar, especially one that can be a freak PF when we have the chance and not rue the day we passed on Shawn Marion or KG for Brad Miller. It's not really positions that matter, but overall talent; a superstar in this league, regardless of position, can make any team good and we must take that superstar.


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## DHarris34Phan

> In my opinion the center is the least important position in the modern NBA. There are so few top tier centers (and once Shaq leaves there really isn't a dominant unstoppable one left) that all you really need is a guy who will bring solid D. If your center doesn't hurt you everything's peachy. I think championship teams can be built with any combination of players as long as they play well together and there's talent and depth. The Pistons are tough to examine because they are solid pretty much everywhere, but let's look at the past few champs... 2003 Spurs - Tim Duncan playing PF not Center, Bruce Bowen at SF, and a young Tony Parker. The Center on this team was Malik Rose. 2000-2002 Lakers. Shaq and Kobe. Basically you had the most dominant Center EVER, and one of the best wings in the game. Besides that it was solid role players. 1999 Spurs - Twin Towers, did they even have a point guard? And before that it was Michael, Scottie, and Rodman, which in case you don't know recorded 72 wins and those three star players were SG, SF, and PF. Best team in NBA history without even quality Point Guards or Centers. Hmmm


Good points...but I think when it comes to the 2003 Spurs, our Duncan would be Bogut, and the young point guard would be TJ Ford....That is how I see Bogut, a versitile PF/C. The 1999 Spurs did have a PG, his name was Avery Johnson. I see alot of Avery Johnson in TJ Ford. Again, Bogut would be our Duncan in this scenario. Of course the Bulls Dynasty didn't need a legitimate center, they had the best player ever! Not all teams can win championships the way the Bulls did.



> Oh, and just to put it out there, there is effectively no difference between a Shooting Guard and a Small Forward. I can't understand at all how you say the Shooting Guard is really important and the Small Forward is a throw away. The most important position in today's NBA is the Poward Forward position. The Championship teams have elite Power Forwards or Shaq. All of them. Big Ben/Sheed, Duncan, Amare, Dirk, JO, K-Mart, Gasol. It's the new breed of super freaks, and it is the position that makes and breaks a team. The imbalance in poward forward talent 2-5 years ago is the reason why the West was so much better, not Shaq (although he didn't hurt).


I am not saying Small Forward is a throwaway. I am just saying we have our franchise SG, and Small Forward is one of the easiest positions year in and year our with quality. Getting a PF/C like Andrew Bogut just doesn't happen every offseason. I don't think that Marvin can play the 4, so by drafting him, I don't think we get a player on the level of JO, Amare, Duncan, whereas we draft Bogut, we get a player that can at least compete with them! I am not asking for Bogut to dominate these guys, just to be able to compete with them. I don't think Marvin will be able to do this.



> What I'm saying is we gotta take our crack at a superstar, especially one that can be a freak PF when we have the chance and not rue the day we passed on Shawn Marion or KG for Brad Miller. It's not really positions that matter, but overall talent; a superstar in this league, regardless of position, can make any team good and we must take that superstar.


I agree....but IMO, Bogut can be that superstar. He plays with a fiery passion that very much resembles KG, and has the passing ability of Brad Miller. I also think that Bogut's athletiscm is very underrated, and he can be that freakish PF/C, especially with a good team around him. What makes Tim Duncan that much of a better athlete than Bogut?


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## jalen5

Nimreitz said:


> In my opinion the center is the least important position in the modern NBA. There are so few top tier centers (and once Shaq leaves there really isn't a dominant unstoppable one left) that all you really need is a guy who will bring solid D. If your center doesn't hurt you everything's peachy. I think championship teams can be built with any combination of players as long as they play well together and there's talent and depth. The Pistons are tough to examine because they are solid pretty much everywhere, but let's look at the past few champs... 2003 Spurs - Tim Duncan playing PF not Center, Bruce Bowen at SF, and a young Tony Parker. The Center on this team was Malik Rose. 2000-2002 Lakers. Shaq and Kobe. Basically you had the most dominant Center EVER, and one of the best wings in the game. Besides that it was solid role players. 1999 Spurs - Twin Towers, did they even have a point guard? And before that it was Michael, Scottie, and Rodman, which in case you don't know recorded 72 wins and those three star players were SG, SF, and PF. Best team in NBA history without even quality Point Guards or Centers. Hmmm
> 
> Oh, and just to put it out there, there is effectively no difference between a Shooting Guard and a Small Forward. I can't understand at all how you say the Shooting Guard is really important and the Small Forward is a throw away. The most important position in today's NBA is the Poward Forward position. The Championship teams have elite Power Forwards or Shaq. All of them. Big Ben/Sheed, Duncan, Amare, Dirk, JO, K-Mart, Gasol. It's the new breed of super freaks, and it is the position that makes and breaks a team. The imbalance in poward forward talent 2-5 years ago is the reason why the West was so much better, not Shaq (although he didn't hurt).
> 
> What I'm saying is we gotta take our crack at a superstar, especially one that can be a freak PF when we have the chance and not rue the day we passed on Shawn Marion or KG for Brad Miller. It's not really positions that matter, but overall talent; a superstar in this league, regardless of position, can make any team good and we must take that superstar.



I agree with most of what you said. I take a chance on a player that can be a superstar over a player like Bogut anyday. However, if you think Bogut has a chance to be a superstar, that changes the whole decision making process. But since I don't think Bogut has a chance of being a superstar, it makes it easy for me to go with Marvin Williams.


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## jalen5

DHarris34Phan said:


> Good points...but I think when it comes to the 2003 Spurs, our Duncan would be Bogut, and the young point guard would be TJ Ford....That is how I see Bogut, a versitile PF/C. The 1999 Spurs did have a PG, his name was Avery Johnson. I see alot of Avery Johnson in TJ Ford. Again, Bogut would be our Duncan in this scenario. Of course the Bulls Dynasty didn't need a legitimate center, they had the best player ever! Not all teams can win championships the way the Bulls did.
> 
> 
> I am not saying Small Forward is a throwaway. I am just saying we have our franchise SG, and Small Forward is one of the easiest positions year in and year our with quality. Getting a PF/C like Andrew Bogut just doesn't happen every offseason. I don't think that Marvin can play the 4, so by drafting him, I don't think we get a player on the level of JO, Amare, Duncan, whereas we draft Bogut, we get a player that can at least compete with them! I am not asking for Bogut to dominate these guys, just to be able to compete with them. I don't think Marvin will be able to do this.
> 
> 
> I agree....but IMO, Bogut can be that superstar. He plays with a fiery passion that very much resembles KG, and has the passing ability of Brad Miller. I also think that Bogut's athletiscm is very underrated, and he can be that freakish PF/C, especially with a good team around him. What makes Tim Duncan that much of a better athlete than Bogut?



I don't think T.J. Ford, Michael Redd, and Bogut as your best (core) players will ever be enough to win a championship. That's just my opinion, so that helps me choose Marvin as well. Also, in regards to Marvin playing the 4, I think could give u time at the 4 as well. He's still young, he could still grow as well. And just b/c Bogut might have the passion of KG doesn't mean he has the ability. I just don't see how you think he will be as good as Duncan.


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## Limca

I don't think he meant Bogut is as good as Duncan. What he's saying is that Bogut can COMPETE with Duncan. For proof take a look at the boxscore from the world games a few years back. Duncan had like 17/10, but Bogut had 11/11. Bogut was age 19 at the time and his game has dramatically improved since then. 

I do agree with you about the need to get a superstar in the NBA. Without a superstar you have no hope of contending for a title. (Unless you are the Pistons and have really good players at all 5 positions, have great chemistry, and play unbelievable D) 

The consensus seems to be that Marvin Williams will be the best player in the draft 5 years from now. He has "superstar" written all over him. However his "scouting report" is eerily similar to Tim Thomas. Kind of scary eh? Also I read a comparison of M.Williams to TMac. TMac sure did a lot of good for the team that developed and drafted him. Or what about Jermaine O'Neal? Portland reaped ZERO benefits from him. Raw, talented superstar players take time to develop. 

With Marvin Williams, who's going to teach him to be a 4? There is not a single coach on the Buck's that is capable of molding this guy into a PF. Perhaps if the Bucks hired Silas, they'd be able to teach him to be a 4. TP's strength is developing PG's, not big men. 

Now the thought of Bogut being a "Brad Miller" player at best is scary. With the #1/#1 pick in the draft you **need** to get a superstar. This opportunity only comes along once in a lifetime. Some teams have NEVER won the lottery. 

It is clear that Bogut is ready to play tomorrow. He is one of the C's in the league that actually has post moves. Also he can rebound. The opportunity cost for the Bucks of NOT drafting Bogut is too great. If Bogut's potential ceiling is to be one of the top-5 C's in the league, the Buck's can't take a chance on missing out on him. Sure he could be a bust, but by the time Marvin Williams develops into a "superstar", he might be on another team. 

FYI the Bucks will DEFINITELY take Bogut. There really isn't much of a debate. Bogut is the most ready to play, and our lame-duck coach and GM need instant impact. They can't wait for Williams to develop, they may not have a job by then.


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## DHarris34Phan

Great post....That is a great point when it comes to regarding on developing the talent and then him bolting. I definitly could see that happeing in Marvin's case. Losing basketball in Milwaukee isn't the most exciting place to be.


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## jalen5

Limca said:


> I don't think he meant Bogut is as good as Duncan. What he's saying is that Bogut can COMPETE with Duncan. For proof take a look at the boxscore from the world games a few years back. Duncan had like 17/10, but Bogut had 11/11. Bogut was age 19 at the time and his game has dramatically improved since then.
> 
> I do agree with you about the need to get a superstar in the NBA. Without a superstar you have no hope of contending for a title. (Unless you are the Pistons and have really good players at all 5 positions, have great chemistry, and play unbelievable D)
> 
> The consensus seems to be that Marvin Williams will be the best player in the draft 5 years from now. He has "superstar" written all over him. However his "scouting report" is eerily similar to Tim Thomas. Kind of scary eh? Also I read a comparison of M.Williams to TMac. TMac sure did a lot of good for the team that developed and drafted him. Or what about Jermaine O'Neal? Portland reaped ZERO benefits from him. Raw, talented superstar players take time to develop.
> 
> With Marvin Williams, who's going to teach him to be a 4? There is not a single coach on the Buck's that is capable of molding this guy into a PF.  Perhaps if the Bucks hired Silas, they'd be able to teach him to be a 4. TP's strength is developing PG's, not big men.
> 
> Now the thought of Bogut being a "Brad Miller" player at best is scary. With the #1/#1 pick in the draft you **need** to get a superstar. This opportunity only comes along once in a lifetime. Some teams have NEVER won the lottery.
> 
> It is clear that Bogut is ready to play tomorrow. He is one of the C's in the league that actually has post moves. Also he can rebound. The opportunity cost for the Bucks of NOT drafting Bogut is too great. If Bogut's potential ceiling is to be one of the top-5 C's in the league, the Buck's can't take a chance on missing out on him. Sure he could be a bust, but by the time Marvin Williams develops into a "superstar", he might be on another team.
> 
> FYI the Bucks will DEFINITELY take Bogut. There really isn't much of a debate. Bogut is the most ready to play, and our lame-duck coach and GM need instant impact. They can't wait for Williams to develop, they may not have a job by then.


I'll tell ya what man, I liked the way you put all of that. You mentioned that Marvin might not be with the Bucks when he realizes his potential and becomes the superstar he can be. That is true. I think the thought of that happening is more of a risk or concern than Marvin actually fulfilling his potential. Here's my question though: Is Bogut that good where he is going to lead them the Bucks to a championship alongside T.J. Ford and Michael Redd?? I don't think he is. That's why I take the gamble on Marvin. When I look at the Bucks picking Bogut, I see many, many seasons of mediocrity. I just dont like mediocrity, and I'd rather take a chance on a superstar.


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## MilBucksFan2TheCore

jalen5 said:


> I'll tell ya what man, I liked the way you put all of that. You mentioned that Marvin might not be with the Bucks when he realizes his potential and becomes the superstar he can be. That is true. I think the thought of that happening is more of a risk or concern than Marvin actually fulfilling his potential. Here's my question though: Is Bogut that good where he is going to lead them the Bucks to a championship alongside T.J. Ford and Michael Redd?? I don't think he is. That's why I take the gamble on Marvin. When I look at the Bucks picking Bogut, I see many, many seasons of mediocrity. I just dont like mediocrity, and I'd rather take a chance on a superstar.



Dont go on that Tim Thomas stuff! Stop repeating what you hear! No way in hell Marvin is Tim Thomas. Fans should do thier homework. Stop labeling this kid. This kid is a once in a generatation and once in a franchise type player now and not down the road.

STOP SAYIN DOWN THE ROAD AS IF BOGUT IS MORE READY FOR THE NBA! The NBA is not International Basketball i dont care what he did against Tim Duncan in the World Games!

Marvin Williams could have come out last year and been a high lottery pick! He was ready last year before Bogut out of High School! So if anything he is more ready to compete in the athletic star driven up and down NBA then Bogut is.

Many Bucks fans want another great hope player instead of taken an off the charts Hall of Fame conversation type player we have never had in a long time.

Marvin is 'old school' in his approach and his discipline and in his dedication and basketball IQ if you ask Roy Williams or Dean Smith or the top scouts. He is not your stereo typical urban black streetball player and may be a smarter driven and studious player then Bogut is!

Plus he has off the chart type 'take over the League' type talent! Bogut does not and never will at that position. Marvin can play 4 positions...and Bogut one. Marvin will increase interest on TV and on the road and in season tickets and promo's...That fact alone...you pick him if for no other reason.

Milwaukee need to be progressive to survive. This is not forming a YMCA team this is building to win an NBA title the NBA way not like this is College.

You NEED STARS. That is the bottom line.


----------



## MilBucksFan2TheCore

It is by fans who dont know what they are talking about that say Marvin is not ready now! Only reason he did not start in North Carolina is that he was a freshman not because he was not good enough!

He could have been a lottery pick without even going to college people! Stop being bias and bigoted. He may be more ready then Lebron James! He may be a Dwyane Wade. He is not a Tim Thomas. Tim Thomas was not a 'cant miss' first team all NBA Now!

People say that to minimize him and elevate Bogut. This is a once in a franchise type pick if you know the history of any player that goes to North Carolina. How many do you see are busts in the NBA?

Almost none...that are over 6'5. None! How many overratted stiffs come out of Utah? We hear the same things from Keith Van Horn on Bogut!

The NBA is about Star Power and athleticsim. To compete with a Lebron, a Wade and some other young guns like a Luol Deng is you need a versatile combo forward and guy who can play...4 positions and has the work habits of a white guy!

International players are not the only ones who are fundamental and work on their games you know and are clean cut and coachable with multiple skills and off the chart talents...

Many want Bogut because he is 7 foot and they shorten Marvin to 6'9 to make it seem you go for th bigger player. No you go for the best player now and the best player down the road!

So what you are saying is Bogut is this teams White Knight and "savior"? Give me a break he is not coming in here and running over Shaq or Duncan or Ben Wallace! 
He is 7'0 and 245 pounds...and he is going blind!

Bogut is going blind with a eye ailment and has migraines. With taking Ford with a spinal injury in two drafts ago...you cant take this man.


----------



## Greg Ostertag!

Give us a break man. You are comparing Marvin Williams, a guy who put up 10 and 6 in his freshmen year, to LeBron James who put up 20/6/6 at the equivalent age in the NBA. There is no comparison between the two.

Brad Miller is to Shaq as Marvin Williams will be to LBJ. This decision is not a be all and end all on whether the Bucks win a championship in the future, but it presents the best opportunity to add a key building block. It doesn't take a genius to figure out which block is the most difficult to ascertain in basketball today.


----------



## DomJamesToTheBasket

*Marvin Williams - Chris Bosh*

I've seen and agree with Tim Thomas as on the low end, but what about high end? Would Chris Bosh be accurate? Both left after 1 year, play both forward spots, have inside-out games, same size, athletic freaks, etc. Anyways, I'd like to see TJ running his uptempo game with a Bosh-type player......not slowing it down with a Miller-type. Williams and Gadzuric would be among the most athletic frontcourts in the NBA, allowing TJ to utilize his speed and Redd to find openings as the big guys speed past him in transition. Williams CAN shoot the 3 and the mid-range. He also gives the Bucks tremendous versatility at 2 positions. They can go really BIG:
SF: WILLIAMS 6'9 230
PF: J. Smith 6'10 225
C: Gadzuric 6'11 240
And they can go really ATHLETIC:
SF: Mason
PF: WILLIAMS
C: Gadzuric

With Bogut they can't get a lineup even close to as big as with Williams or as athletic.
SF: Mason
PF: J. Smith
C: Bogut


----------



## MarvinWilliams#1in05

DHarris34Phan said:


> *Do you know much about Marvin Williams? I have seen him sparangly, but not enough to make a really accurate comparison. Based soley on scouting reports, I think he could be an Amare Stoudemire type player. Who wouldn't want that? If you can answer, would you agree?*


And the truth comes out FINALLY! You speak about Williams on the draftboard like you're an expert on his overall game. When in all reality you dont know jackcrap about the guy. Don't ever post on the draft board again, because obviously you are full of it.


----------



## DHarris34Phan

MarvinWilliams#1in05 said:


> And the truth comes out FINALLY! You speak about Williams on the draftboard like you're an expert on his overall game. When in all reality you dont know jackcrap about the guy. Don't ever post on the draft board again, because obviously you are full of it.


I NEVER claimed on the draft board that I was an expert on Williams' game, or that I have seen more than 10 games the guy played. In the thread that I am discussing him I am ASKING what is so great about him. From what I get from people, and what I have seen, he is no more than Tim Thomas coming out of college, which I really don't think the Bucks should take a chance on.


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## MarvinWilliams#1in05

DHarris34Phan said:


> I NEVER claimed on the draft board that I was an expert on Williams' game, or that I have seen more than 10 games the guy played. In the thread that I am discussing him I am ASKING what is so great about him. From what I get from people, and what I have seen, he is no more than Tim Thomas coming out of college, which I really don't think the Bucks should take a chance on.


So all your intelligence is based on what others tell you? Congrats on knowing absolutely nothing! Do your own scouting form an opinion, then speak on the matter, what you're doing is ascinine.


----------



## DHarris34Phan

MarvinWilliams#1in05 said:


> So all your intelligence is based on what others tell you? Congrats on knowing absolutely nothing! Do your own scouting form an opinion, then speak on the matter, what you're doing is ascinine.


LMFAO! If I could see every Marvin Williams game, it would be much easier for me to do. But, living in Milwaukee, I really don't have that luxury. Also, neither Marvin Williams or Andrew Bogut were on the Bucks radar before last week, so now that we are in the position to draft one of them, I have to gather information from outside sources.

So....99% of NBA fans can't have opinions about Gerald Green, Tiago Splitter, or Fran Vazquez, all lotto picks, because they haven't seen them play?


----------



## jalen5

MilBucksFan2TheCore said:


> Dont go on that Tim Thomas stuff! Stop repeating what you hear! No way in hell Marvin is Tim Thomas. Fans should do thier homework. Stop labeling this kid. This kid is a once in a generatation and once in a franchise type player now and not down the road.
> 
> STOP SAYIN DOWN THE ROAD AS IF BOGUT IS MORE READY FOR THE NBA! The NBA is not International Basketball i dont care what he did against Tim Duncan in the World Games!
> 
> Marvin Williams could have come out last year and been a high lottery pick! He was ready last year before Bogut out of High School! So if anything he is more ready to compete in the athletic star driven up and down NBA then Bogut is.
> 
> Many Bucks fans want another great hope player instead of taken an off the charts Hall of Fame conversation type player we have never had in a long time.
> 
> Marvin is 'old school' in his approach and his discipline and in his dedication and basketball IQ if you ask Roy Williams or Dean Smith or the top scouts. He is not your stereo typical urban black streetball player and may be a smarter driven and studious player then Bogut is!
> 
> Plus he has off the chart type 'take over the League' type talent! Bogut does not and never will at that position. Marvin can play 4 positions...and Bogut one. Marvin will increase interest on TV and on the road and in season tickets and promo's...That fact alone...you pick him if for no other reason.
> 
> Milwaukee need to be progressive to survive. This is not forming a YMCA team this is building to win an NBA title the NBA way not like this is College.
> 
> You NEED STARS. That is the bottom line.



Dude, I don't know if u have been paying attention or not, but that's what I've been saying all along. I'm FOR taking Marvin Williams. He will be a star and you need stars in the NBA. While I would NEVER say he may be more ready than LeBron, I will say I think he is every bit as ready as Bogut. AND will be a better NBA player than Bogut as well.


----------



## MarvinWilliams#1in05

DHarris34Phan said:


> LMFAO! If I could see every Marvin Williams game, it would be much easier for me to do. But, living in Milwaukee, I really don't have that luxury. Also, neither Marvin Williams or Andrew Bogut were on the Bucks radar before last week, so now that we are in the position to draft one of them, I have to gather information from outside sources.
> 
> So....99% of NBA fans can't have opinions about Gerald Green, Tiago Splitter, or Fran Vazquez, all lotto picks, because they haven't seen them play?


YES! That is my point! If you haven't seen a guy play at least 10 times, you don't have a right to have an opinion on him because your opinion is uninformed and has no substance. If all you do is take other people's scouting reports as the "final say" on a player then you aren't entitled to an opinion.


----------



## DHarris34Phan

MarvinWilliams#1in05 said:


> YES! That is my point! If you haven't seen a guy play at least 10 times, you don't have a right to have an opinion on him because your opinion is uninformed and has no substance. If all you do is take other people's scouting reports as the "final say" on a player then you aren't entitled to an opinion.


If my team is in the mid lotto, I definitly would form an opnion on Green, Splittler or Vasquz. No one on these boards from the US have seen these guys play more than 2 or 3 games, but they are going to be on someone's favorite team, and they are going to have an opinion on them.

If I am getting information from what I percieve as a credible source, then my opinion isn't uninformed. Scouting reports are not my final say on a player, but they do have a big effect on me when forming an opinion, especially when I have only seen the player on a limited basis


----------



## MarvinWilliams#1in05

DHarris34Phan said:


> If my team is in the mid lotto, I definitly would form an opnion on Green, Splittler or Vasquz. No one on these boards from the US have seen these guys play more than 2 or 3 games, but they are going to be on someone's favorite team, and they are going to have an opinion on them.
> 
> If I am getting information from what I percieve as a credible source, then my opinion isn't uninformed. Scouting reports are not my final say on a player, but they do have a big effect on me when forming an opinion, especially when I have only seen the player on a limited basis


If scouting reports are all you have, then please don't come on to boards and speak like you are the authority on a player, or that what you READ in a scouting report makes a player weaker (ala your Tim Thomas vs. Marvin comparison). You keep asking for everyone to explain why he is better than Tim Thomas, Right? Well it's not our job to explain these obvious things to you and they can't be explained through scouting reports or reading articles. It's something you see with your own eyes. Nobody can explain why he is better, but if you watched 20+ UNC games this year you would understand the hype. It is not our fault you are completely uninformed. So please stop making it our problem.


----------



## MilBucksFan2TheCore

Why he is better then Tim Thomas?? Work habits! Coachability. Teachability. Hard Work. Great teamate...what kind of question is that for a 18 year old? He is no Tim Thomas...

You go by looking at his size. It is Marvin's basketball IQ...which Thomas did not possess. It is his willingness to learn and get better and his unselfishness. And his NCAA Championship Ring!

It is Marvin's willingness to sacrifice and let the upperclassmen get the glory and not take over the team ...when he could have! There is so many intangibles I cant even begin to say.

Marvin is versatile and well rounded. Fundamentally sound says Roy Williams and a smart 'old school' players says Larry Harris. He will hit the boards and will mix it up down low as well as go out on the perimeter and knock down 3's with regularity which Thomas never did both. All he spent his time doing was shooting 3's, and not mixing up his game...

Every year you can expect this kid to elevate his game and make his teamates better.


----------



## MilBucksFan2TheCore

i've seen Bogut play and I have seen Marvin play BrewerPhan and I have an informed opinion on my own. I almost never ever care or value what anyone else says except the coaches of these kids...

I put high stakes in what Roy Williams and Rick Majerus and herb Sendek say about a player they coached our went up against over some so called expert journalist or a bias fan...

Now there so great sources out there too now. Like ESPN Insider, RealGM and some others like our Journal Sentinel staff...But what one expert thinks of a player is not what I may think...

I dont put much value on experience anymore nor international experience. I look at the talent level of a kid...nowadays. What Bogut has done internationally to me is irrelevant at his position.

It is one thing for guys to come in and play well at the guard positions after a year or two...like Ginobili and what not. But Center is a different adjustment. Nowitzki is the exception but even he can't defend...or is not a great passer. But he can shoot.

Marvin's physicality is the total package, and talent wise is more ready then Bogut. Basketball wise Bogut gets the edge...but this is about impact. You are not win over an 82 game schedule with Bogut's style.

But you will with Marvin's, right away. Fundamentals is great...but it comes down to stars in the NBA! Not hype's.

I dont agree with that or like it either, but it is what it is.


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## MarvinWilliams#1in05

MilBucksFan2TheCore said:


> Why he is better then Tim Thomas?? Work habits! Coachability. Teachability. Hard Work. Great teamate...what kind of question is that for a 18 year old? He is no Tim Thomas...
> 
> You go by looking at his size. It is Marvin's basketball IQ...which Thomas did not possess. It is his willingness to learn and get better and his unselfishness. And his NCAA Championship Ring!
> 
> It is Marvin's willingness to sacrifice and let the upperclassmen get the glory and not take over the team ...when he could have! There is so many intangibles I cant even begin to say.
> 
> Marvin is versatile and well rounded. Fundamentally sound says Roy Williams and a smart 'old school' players says Larry Harris. He will hit the boards and will mix it up down low as well as go out on the perimeter and knock down 3's with regularity which Thomas never did both. All he spent his time doing was shooting 3's, and not mixing up his game...
> 
> Every year you can expect this kid to elevate his game and make his teamates better.


Just when I thought all Bucks fans were idiots this guy comes outa the woodwork. Nice post.


----------



## hirschmanz

One problem down the road that the Bucks may encounter with either Bogut or Williams is that they will leave before bringing glory to the team. It would be great if we could keep Williams, but I'd almost rather pick the player who will ask for less money three years down the road.

It might mean a bit less talent to pick Bogut, but it would be a complete waste of a pick if Williams bolts as soon as he finishes developing.


----------



## Ownerofpueblo

totally agree with the previous post.'

I think the Marvin Gaye Williams homers need to understand the difficulties of the small market team. If this guy is T-mac or Vince, he's not going to stay in there when the contract expires ala T-Mac or Shaq. I think Bogut is exactly the kind of player who will love Milwalkee over time, and reward them with loyalty, like Duncan or JO. Personally, If I was to seperate myself from fandom, that's what I'd rather have. It makes the league more competitive. Toronto's high picks on superstars and potential have not been too kind to them.


----------



## hirschmanz

Ownerofpueblo said:


> totally agree with the previous post.'
> 
> I think the Marvin Gaye Williams homers need to understand the difficulties of the small market team. If this guy is T-mac or Vince, he's not going to stay in there when the contract expires ala T-Mac or Shaq. I think Bogut is exactly the kind of player who will love Milwalkee over time, and reward them with loyalty, like Duncan or JO. Personally, If I was to seperate myself from fandom, that's what I'd rather have. It makes the league more competitive. Toronto's high picks on superstars and potential have not been too kind to them.


I appreciate the support, but JO is who I compare to Marvin Williams. In Portland, he learned from sheed, then left to a perennially good team and made them a perenial eastern conference champion... Bogut can do that with us BEFORE his contract expires


----------



## DHarris34Phan

*Williams keeping life simple before Draft*
_from Atlanta Journal-Constitution_



> CHAPEL HILL, N.C. — Marvin Williams isn't living the NBA high life these days — not yet, at least.
> 
> For the time being, he's content with the relatively Spartan lifestyle of a college freshman on summer vacation.
> 
> 
> He decided a long time ago that the weeks leading up to the NBA draft would not be spent in Los Angeles or New York, spending lavishly and enjoying the fruits of labor not yet completed.
> 
> Instead of acting like the soon-to-be-minted multi-millionaire that he is, Williams is here, on campus at North Carolina doing his best to be inconspicuous, as best a 6-foot-9, 235-pound man-child can.
> 
> Williams is a world away from the intense spotlight that will accompany him top the podium at Madison Square Garden on June 28, when he won't have to wait long to hear his name called by NBA commissioner David Stern. He's expected to be a top five pick, with the Hawks selecting at No. 2.
> 
> "Honestly, there's no reason to go crazy," Williams said. "No one has done anything yet. June 28 is a long way away. I certainly haven't done anything yet."
> 
> Williams is working, though.
> 
> Part of his day is spent on the floor at the Dean Smith Center working out, in his college practice gear, under the watchful eye of Tar Heels assistant C.B. McGrath. If he's not on the floor he's probably in the weight room with Tar Heels strength and conditioning coach Jonas Sahratian, dancing to whatever song blares from the stereo speakers in between sets. His down time, and there's plenty of it, is spent sleeping and hanging out with friends.
> 
> But there's nothing extravagant, nothing to suggest that Williams is eager to embrace his newfound material riches.
> 
> He sleeps on a futon in a former teammate's apartment — rent free, of course.
> 
> "I told him if he needed a bed I'd help him out free of charge," McGrath joked. "Really, I think he just wanted an environment where there weren't many distractions."


*LINK*


----------



## MilBucksFan2TheCore

That is a weak and wack almost racist comment from a typical Bucks fans. You dont know that!You dont know if Williams will stay or not? 

You cant say Bogut will! That is a loser mentality that stars wont stay here!

When in reality they will the Bucks just trade them and keep scrubs like Randy Breuer!!!

Ray wanted to stay. Glenn wanted to stay. Vin Baker wanted to stay and the Bucks moved all of them and all of them were shocked and hurt by it!! 

That is BS post with a lot of speculations and assumptions that are really unfounded! Marvin may indeed like it here...he is not high and mighty and is from Washington State.

I just think some fans dont want him to and are looking for any excuse to justify not taking him. You cant think like that if you are Larry Harris. That is defeatism and fear. And he might love it here. 

You just have to wait to see how things shake out on the 19th when he comes into town and answers that himself...


----------



## hirschmanz

MilBucksFan2TheCore said:


> That is a weak and wack almost racist comment from a typical Bucks fans. You dont know that!You dont know if Williams will stay or not?
> 
> You cant say Bogut will! That is a loser mentality that stars wont stay here!
> 
> When in reality they will the Bucks just trade them and keep scrubs like Randy Breuer!!!
> 
> Ray wanted to stay. Glenn wanted to stay. Vin Baker wanted to stay and the Bucks moved all of them and all of them were shocked and hurt by it!!
> 
> That is BS post with a lot of speculations and assumptions that are really unfounded! Marvin may indeed like it here...he is not high and mighty and is from Washington State.
> 
> I just think some fans dont want him to and are looking for any excuse to justify not taking him. You cant think like that if you are Larry Harris. That is defeatism and fear. And he might love it here.
> 
> You just have to wait to see how things shake out on the 19th when he comes into town and answers that himself...


I don't see how race has anything to do with it. A player who can contribute immediately is more likely to stick around because he will be getting touches and recognition.

Also, the Bucks have been bad about keeping stars, which is why I think they need solid players more than superstars. The pistons do it with a bunch of above average players, the bucks have michael redd, mason, and bogut, they have 3 good players who can score. With redd, mason, and williams they have 2 good players and a project. And, with the bucks reputation of dealing superstars once they want to stay, why should marvin want to stay at all? Bogut has already said he would love to play for milwaukee, there's no risk involved in whether he will want to stay.

RECENT history, since jordan, shows that north carolina players go where the winning is.


----------



## DomJamesToTheBasket

*Marvin's #'s extrapolated to Bogut's mpg*

Marvin Williams 22.2 mpg
Andrew Bogut 35.0 mpg

Williams 17.8 on 51% fg
10.4 rpg
1.1 apg
.8 bpg
.8 3pg on 43%

That is what I call some serious production per minute, especially for a Freshman. That is of course the mathematical expression of his mpg extrapolated. In reality, he probably would have improved on those numbers. 22 minutes is not a lot of time to really get in the flow.... A player that has virtually no limitations on the college level, like Williams, would have improved play with more time. After all, he was described by even Sean May(only 27 mpg!) as the best player on the team; a team that had 3 starters as 1st round talented players (including the aforementioned May who was a beast), as well as 2 of the other starters considered 2nd round possiblities. Marvin was the 6th man, but his minutes weren't far from the starters of this uber talented championship team.

Had Marvin Williams minutes been over 30, he would have rivaled Carmelo Anthony's(SF) stats and bested Chis Bosh's(F)

Since I brought up 2 among the perceived most talented young forwards, I'll provide their numbers at the combine vs. Williams, as a showing that he is as good of a prospect as they were....

Vertical Jump: Williams 35", Anthony 33.5", Bosh 33"
Lane Agility: Williams 11.11, Anthony 11.4, Bosh 11.8
3/4 court sprint: Anthony 3.15, Williams 3.17, Bosh 3.3
Bench: Williams 12, Bosh 9, Anthony 7
NOTE: Williams tested faster and more agile than TJ Ford(11.45, 3.2)


It appears he is quite a bit more athletic than those 2 coming out. He already has NBA size and strength at 228, 12 repetions was 1 shy of Bogut and Darko's mark of 13, whom were never questioned about stength at the 5. So, why can't Williams come in and play the 4 right away. His ability to play both forward spots is a great asset.


Marvin would also surely have improved as a Sophomore. The large majority of real good Freshman players improve as Sophomores for obvious reasons(mature-physically, mentally, etc.) Bogut isn't the first good player to improve from Frosh to Soph. Put Marvin Williams in the Mountain West as a Sophomore and how does he do? Do Bogut's numbers go down if he was in the ACC? There is a MAJOR gap here.....

ACC STANDINGS 
. CONF. OVERALL 
TEAM W L W L 
North Carolina 14 2 33 4 
Wake Forest 13 3 27 6 
Duke 11 5 27 6 
Georgia Tech 8 8 20 12 
Virginia Tech 8 8 16 14 
N.C. State 7 9 21 14 
Maryland 7 9 19 13 
Miami 7 9 16 13 
Clemson 5 11 16 16 
Virginia 4 12 14 15 
Florida State 4 12 12 19 


MWC STANDINGS 
. CONF. OVERALL 
TEAM W L W L 
Utah 13 1 29 6 
New Mexico 10 4 26 7 
Air Force 9 5 18 12 
UNLV 7 7 17 14 
Wyoming 7 7 15 13 
San Diego State 4 10 11 18 
Colorado State 3 11 11 17 
BYU 3 11 9 21 

I think you can see that he has the production ability and athleticism to come in and have a HIGH impact right away. This has been confirmed by GM's and scouts. His size and athleticism are through the roof, a big guy that has a shooting stroke described as flawless with 3 range. All the while having no preference over jump shots and posting up. Yes, the Bucks need scoring down low. This can be done at PF too you know. Ben Wallace doesn't score...that's Gadzuric's role and Marvin can play Rasheed Wallace's role. That formula has been proven successful and the Bucks could go this direction. (Gadzuric could be among the leaders in blocks and rebounds given 30+ minutes and Williams has the potential to be better than Rasheed.)

What's best about Marvin Williams, is that he has been described as having an incredible work ethic and attitude to go with a VERY high basketball IQ. Aren't these the major qualities you look at to determine if potential will be realized. 

All that size, athleticism and skill WILL develop. Just how good could he get? A guy that scored 11.3 points and grabbed 6.6 rebounds is being considered over Bogut's 20.4 and 12.2.

Williams will be a superstar in the NBA


----------



## DHarris34Phan

*Marvin Works out for the Bucks*
_June 20th, 2005_


> *St. Francis -* Marvin Williams spent his 19th birthday doing drills on a basketball court while offering the Milwaukee Bucks a possible glimpse of their future.
> 
> The 6-foot-9½ forward showed his versatility in his first workout with a National Basketball Association team Sunday, and he also displayed some nervousness in the 45-minute session at the Cousins Center.
> 
> If the Bucks truly believe the North Carolina freshman can play the power forward position, he could be their choice in the June 28 NBA draft.
> 
> The Bucks must decide between Williams and 7-foot, 255-pound Utah center Andrew Bogut, who will work out with the team this morning.
> 
> "Early on, I see him more as a power forward and a guy who can play some three (small forward) as well," Bucks general manager Larry Harris said, referring to Williams. "His post-up game is a lot further along than people have seen."
> 
> The Bucks could use the 230-pound Williams to complement veteran Joe Smith at the power forward spot, and he could share time with Desmond Mason at small forward. Although he came off the bench for the national champion Tar Heels, it's conceivable he could be a starter for the Bucks.
> 
> "Eventually he's going to grow some more, so he's going to get bigger," Bucks coach Terry Porter said. "He has the bulk to him to play the four, and it's going to be a very easy transition for him.
> 
> "He's definitely strong and solid in the post."
> 
> Williams' game has been compared to several past and current NBA stars, including James Worthy, Kevin Garnett and Antawn Jamison. He struggled from beyond the three-point line in the workout but showed fine form on his perimeter shot to a range of about 20 feet.
> 
> "I can shoot the ball a little bit, and I feel I create matchup problems sometimes," Williams said. "My jumper definitely has to get better, and I can try to extend my range a little bit more."












*LINK *


----------



## DHarris34Phan

*Williams auditions to be #1 pick*
_from ESPN.com:_


> *ST. FRANCIS, Wis. –* Marvin Williams says he had never tried out for a basketball team, at least not that he could remember.
> 
> But here he was Sunday, on his 19th birthday, auditioning for the Milwaukee Bucks, hoping to be the first pick in the NBA draft.
> 
> "I'm pretty excited," Williams said as he walked out onto the Cousins Center court in suburban Milwaukee. "I have to show them what I can do, my moves and see what they like."
> 
> And off he went, to show them that he is a specimen, an athletic 6-foot-8 forward who should be selected over Utah seven-footer Andrew Bogut.
> 
> The Bucks entertained Williams and his attorney, Jim Tanner of Washington D.C.-based Williams and Connolly, Saturday night, including giving Williams a cake.
> 
> On Sunday, though, Williams' day was all about basketball.
> 
> Bucks owner and team president U.S. Senator Herb Kohl was one of the first to greet him – right before he was measured, weighed, poked and prodded to gather his body fat count.
> 
> As he worked through the drills on the court – mostly facing the basket with some post-moves sprinkled in – most of the Bucks' hierarchy sat at a press table watching every move.
> 
> Williams essentially was working 1-on-0, with Bucks assistant coach Mike Sanders bumping him with a green pad on the way to the basket.
> 
> "There could be a little bit of pressure," Williams said afterward of the workout that could decide the No. 1 pick. "I'm just blessed to have the opportunity that somebody is willing to pay me to do this. How could it be better than that?"
> 
> Williams did show some jitters at times, not consistently knocking down jumpers and failing to finish at the free throw line after extensive work. A sign of fatigue? Perhaps, since he had to have his legs stretched a few times in between drills by Bucks strength and conditioning coach Tim Wilson.
> 
> There was at least one point when Williams slapped his hands in disgust after missing a shot.
> 
> "I felt like it went OK, to finally work out for a team," Williams, who has his second – and final – team workout with the Hawks on Wednesday, said. "I always want to be the best and on the court I try not to get frustrated but I do get emotional on the court."


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