# Breaking news! Rashidi changes his mind!



## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

I'm no longer in favor of the Van Horn/TT deal. Or rather, I no longer feel the trade was even.

I said KVH > TT

and Nazr > Doleac

but I no longer believe this.

Nazr is a good rebounder yes, but that's all. Further, it just occurred to me that he is very injury prone, which won't do the team much good once Deke is gone. He's pretty much Deke minus the shot blocking anyway. Definitely overrated. I speculate whether he's even a top 25 center in the league.

Derrick Coleman
Samuel Dalembert
Theo Ratliff
Dale Davis
Eddy Curry
Zyrdunas Ilgauskas
Raef LaFrentz
Chris Kaman
Lorenzen Wright
Stromile Swift
Brian Grant
Jamaal Magloire
Greg Ostertag
Brad Miller
Vlade Divac
Dikembe Mutombo
Kurt Thomas
Shaquille O'Neal
Marcus Camby
Jeff Foster
Mehmet Okur
Yao Ming
Rasho Nesterovic
Michael Olowokandi
Erick Dampier
Adonal Foyle
Brendan Haywood

Just a couple of centers I would take over Nazr. When he's not injured.

And I made a slight miscalculation.

KVH >>> TT.

I can't believe we significantly downgraded the SF position for a miniscule upgade at C. Call me when Nazr starts outperforming Doleac by more than a point/rebound or 2 per game.


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## Petey (Aug 23, 2002)

I'm a huge fan of KVH and I don't think he has gotten a fair shake. He was drafted high, and definitely not worthy of a number 2 pick, but he is still a good player. He rebounds well, he can hit a fair share of shots. He can't create but the Knicks had a guy whom could create in Marbury. Tim Thomas is a good player but NOT as good as KVH. Funny that TT was traded for KVH so many years ago, it happens again. I think the team that got KVH in both situations won out.

-Petey


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## NYCbballFan (Jun 8, 2003)

The trade looks uneven at this point. It is still early. Tim Thomas needs to step up, but his history is worrisome in that regard.

The most disappointing aspect of the trade so far hasn't been Tim Thomas. It's Nazr Mohammed. Watching him play, I come away thinking, what does he do that Othella Harrington doesn't? Mohammed is bigger, but he's still PF-sized and undersized at C. 

The argument for the concept of Thomas for Van Horn is still defensible, if a gamble. But if Mohammed supposedly made the difference for I-Thomas to make the trade, then it makes less sense. I haven't seen anything out of Mohammed that sets him apart from K-Thomas and/or Harrington or makes him worth a Doleac. Certainly not a Van Horn.


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## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

I agree with Rashidi and nycbballfan.
So far Nazr is incredibly disappointing. I knew VH was probably better than TT but I thought NM would be considerably better than Doleac. Not so far.

But it is early. For a little perspective, we've dropped four of the last five. The sequence was loss loss win loss loss. Those first two losses were with Van Horn. The middle win was without him.

So our best game of late was without him and we lost the preceeding two with him. It just indicates to me that it may not be his loss that is tipping the scales against us. We are missing shooting, and we did lose two shooters, but we have to see what changes if/when Houston contributes again.

I just keep in mind that Marbury's first two outings with us were horrendous too, Then after three games he busted out. I dont know that TT will bust out, but if it took Mabury that many we need to expect TT to take a few too.

The team has been under a lot of trade pressure and is probably emotionally racked. Roles aren't defined, chemistry isn't formed...AND... they had started to slump those last two games with Van Horn anyway. Plus good teams go through nose dives too: Detroit, San Antonio, etc.

So I admit it's not looking pretty right now, but it's way to early to draw final conclusions yet.


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## NYCbballFan (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>son of oakley</b>!
> 
> . . . .
> 
> So I admit it's not looking pretty right now, but it's way to early to draw final conclusions yet.


Agreed. I-Thomas didn't just switch out personnel, he made a decision to radically change the team's style of play. It'll take some time before we know for sure how it'll turn out.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

Ok guys,i am taking my first swing at isiah.....I would assume that isiah knows how bad houstons knees are...I am not so sure I would have trade KVH now knowing that H20 may need surgery


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## Fordy74 (May 22, 2002)

I'm dissapointed in NAZR too, but im also dissapointed he isnt getting many minutes. only 12 yesterday. and he did grab 6 boards in those few minutes of action.


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## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

I didn't get to see yesterdays game. I guess Wilkens wanted Mutombo's height against IZ?


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## The True Essence (May 26, 2003)

mutombo got abused bad. i like him and all, but come on, its not like zydrunas is Tim Duncan. he pulled down one too many offensive boards while mutombo was on the court. we need to get dikembe some new legs. dolan has enough money to make some kind of terminator thing.

and i agree that this trade doesnt look good right now. Nazr sucks, and Tim Thomas is a crappier version of keith


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## NYCbballFan (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>truth</b>!
> Ok guys,i am taking my first swing at isiah.....I would assume that isiah knows how bad houstons knees are...I am not so sure I would have trade KVH now knowing that H20 may need surgery


Good point. The trade only works if Houston can provide the perimeter scoring balance. It's not looking good. The rumors about his knee problem are starting to approach McDyess proportions. I guess Spree would have had a place on this team as the SG after all. It's amazing how quickly the Knicks transformed from a perimeter shooter heavy team to, well, whatever the team is now.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

I am not sure what the motivation for the KVH trade was,but its kind of mind boggling that KVH was moved and they knew full well Houston Knees are much worse than initialy thought.....

I always felt we needed a slasher to compliment Houston...Or a post up guy to compliment van Horn....

If Houston is out,I would have much rather gambled on Vin Baker than traded away Keith


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

Further ammunition.

I just discovered that *Nazr Mohammed isn't even a center.*

Nazr is 6'10, 250 lbs.

Doleac is 6'11, 262 lbs.

In unrelated news, Doleac scored 6 points in 14 minutes in his Denver debut.

Nazr looks more and more like Kelvin Cato minus the shot blocking.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

> I just discovered that Nazr Mohammed isn't even a center.


LOL...what do you mean???thats pretty funny...The scary part is naz was the key to the trade....:laugh: 

This H20 news is really starting to get under my skin....

let me try and rationalise how our best shooter may now have to have sugery,we then trade away our second best shooter in Van horn and then trade away the only center who can shoot from beyond 3 feet...

I tried,its NOT rational....


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## Knicksbiggestfan (Apr 29, 2003)

In related news I had rice and meat for dinner.


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## dcrono3 (Jan 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Rashidi</b>!
> Further ammunition.
> 
> I just discovered that *Nazr Mohammed isn't even a center.*
> ...


I dunno if you can say Nazr isn't a center just because of his height and size. Nikoloz Tskitishvili is 7'0 and 245, but isn't a center. Mourning was 6'10, Wallace is 6'9 (and even that is debateable). Sure Nazr is going to be undersized, but that doesn't mean he isn't a center. Dolec may be bigger, but he doesn't crash the boards and is less physical than Nazr. Nazr is more of a center than Dolec IMO. 

I am slightly disappointed in Nazr so far, but I still think he can contribute later on. He's only been playing with the Knicks for a week or so, maybe he needs longer to get used to his new teammates.


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## Knicksbiggestfan (Apr 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>dcrono3</b>!
> 
> 
> I dunno if you can say Nazr isn't a center just because of his height and size. Nikoloz Tskitishvili is 7'0 and 245, but isn't a center. Mourning was 6'10, Wallace is 6'9 (and even that is debateable). Sure Nazr is going to be undersized, but that doesn't mean he isn't a center. Dolec may be bigger, but he doesn't crash the boards and is less physical than Nazr. Nazr is more of a center than Dolec IMO.
> ...



He'll contribute and will eventually work his way into larger minutes.

With Doleac we had a guy who could help spread the defense and knock down the occasional 15 footer.


With Nazr we lose that but we gain a guy who can rebound better than anyone on this team. Except KT


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

> Dolec may be bigger, but he doesn't crash the boards and is less physical than Nazr. Nazr is more of a center than Dolec IMO.


Kurt Thomas crashes the boards. Brian Grant crashes the boards. Dale Davis crashes the boards. I think we can agree that Knicks fans wanted more than another undersized PF at center.


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## dcrono3 (Jan 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Rashidi</b>!
> 
> 
> Kurt Thomas crashes the boards. Brian Grant crashes the boards. Dale Davis crashes the boards. I think we can agree that Knicks fans wanted more than another undersized PF at center.


Maybe you think differently, but I personally don't think that undersized centers are that bad. As I said, Wallace and Mourning were both undersized, and you can't argue that both aren't good centers. Also, you can't really call Kurt Thomas, Brian Grant, and Dale Davis undersized PF's, they are players with PF size but are unsized CENTERS. A undersized PF would be more like Elton Brand, who is a hella good player anyway. So, I don't really see people that are undersized as a problem, unless you have a 6'4 player playing center. 

BTW, how tall was Barkley anyway when he played? He was listed as 6'8 i think, but I remember that everyone was saying he was only 6'4 and a half or something.


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

> Also, you can't really call Kurt Thomas, Brian Grant, and Dale Davis undersized PF's, they are players with PF size but are unsized CENTERS


Right, they are "undersized PFs" at Center.

I obviously wasn't comparing them to Larry Johnson.


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## dcrono3 (Jan 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Rashidi</b>!
> 
> 
> Right, they are "undersized PFs" at Center.
> ...


I don't really understand this. "Undersized PFs" implies that they are undersized for the PF position. I think "undersized centers" would be a better term.


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## Knicksbiggestfan (Apr 29, 2003)

With teams using the zone now-a-days I think that true position play matters a lot less. Especially in the front court. I mean how often do you see no collapsing on the penetrator?


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## knickstorm (Jun 22, 2003)

didnt rashidid say somethng about the knicks shouldve drafted perkins instead of sweetney with their 1st pick


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## Knicksbiggestfan (Apr 29, 2003)

I don't recall that, I thought he was on the Luke or Jarvis Bandwagon, like I was.


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

> didnt rashidid say somethng about the knicks shouldve drafted perkins instead of sweetney with their 1st pick


PERKINS? As in Kendrick Perkins?


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