# Goodbye Amare; Knicks sign Stoudemire to 5-yr/$100M deal (PHX gets 16.5M TE in S/T)



## Dissonance

> Amar’e Stoudemire(notes) and his agent met for several hours with Phoenix Suns owner Robert Sarver on Tuesday night and gathered momentum on a possible contract extension, team sources told Yahoo! Sports.
> 
> 
> Sarver and Suns coach Alvin Gentry met with Stoudemire and his agent Happy Walters in Los Angeles, and made a case for the All-Star forward to stay with the Suns.
> 
> Sources say the two sides are expected to resume talks on Wednesday, and Stoudemire is holding off opting out of the final $17.6 million season of his deal to make him a free agent. Free agency begins at midnight ET, and sources say it’s still possible Stoudemire will opt out of his contract and continue negotiations with the Suns while also meeting with other teams.
> 
> Stoudemire is considered one of the elite free agents on the market. He’s a target of several teams with salary-cap space, including the New York Knicks, New Jersey Nets, Miami Heat and several more capped-out teams that will try to engineer sign-and-trade deals with Phoenix.
> 
> 
> Stoudemire, 27, averaged 23.1 points and 8.9 rebounds for the Suns last season. Along with Steve Nash(notes), he helped lead the Suns to the Western Conference finals, where they lost in six games to the Los Angeles Lakers. Despite a history of knee and eye injuries, Stoudemire didn’t miss a game last season.
> 
> Stoudemire was drafted out of high school with the ninth overall pick in 2002, and spent eight seasons with the Suns.


http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ys-stoudemiresuns062910


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## Dissonance

*Re: Stoudemire, Suns make progress (or not)*

Basically, there's 2 conflicting reports, Suns offered 4-yrs/84M, yahoo says he was offered 5 but insurance laden 5th yr (no idea on terms). His agent says they won't sign for anything less than 5. 

So, all it takes is one of NY, Houston (via S/T - they called too), Miami or Chicago to miss out on Bosh, offer him that 5th yr. He might go to us to match, but it's probably unlikely Suns will do it.


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## Diable

*Re: Stoudemire, Suns make progress (or not)*

There's absolutely no way Mr Stoudamire can look at the stuff that's going on in the rest of the league and not think that he deserves the MAX. He should have people standing in line to offer it if all these other guys are worth it.

I used to think he didn't deserve a full max contract, but apparently I was wrong and there are at least 20 or 30 guys in the NBA who deserve the MAX.


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## Dissonance

*Re: Update: Talks broken off, Amare has MAX offer from Knicks (Y! denies offer)*

Latest. But Woj is denying he has an offer from them though. 




> It's official-Suns and Amare have broken off all talks after last proposal turned down and there is NO chance he will return to the Phx Suns
> 
> 
> I do not expect a sign and trade to happen for Amare. I also believe that he has a max contract offer on table from Knicks right now.
> 
> 
> Tonite was supposed to be date nite with Patti (movies). but too many stories to break had no time. Anyone have a couch I can sleep on?


Gambo




> WojYahooNBA Knicks haven't yet made an offer to Amar'e, sources say. Sides will talk over weekend.


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## Cris

*Re: Update: Talks broken off, Amare has MAX offer from Knicks (Y! denies offer)*

If the Knicks have a max offer on the table, Amar'e is going to take it ASAP


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## Dissonance

*Re: Update: Talks broken off, Amare has MAX offer from Knicks (Y! denies offer)*

Probably right. Woj's source might be accurate. But there are other factors. Is he going to NY alone? Will anyone else offer it? He still has meetings with possible teams that might offer it as a back up plan. A lot of money out there and potential desperate teams.


Blah. This sucks though. I went from they better bring him back, to on the fence and then to all for letting him go if he wanted too much (after that WCF series). But now that reality is setting in that he's gone, it's depressing.


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## Dissonance

*Re: Update: Amare turns down Suns 5-yr/$95M with stipulations, has MAX offer from Kni*

Well, Amare's gone. This is making me sick combined with the dumbass moves in signing Warrick/ re-signing Frye



> paulcoro Stoudemire declined Suns' 5-yr, $96M offer w/minutes played stipulations.



Details




> Stoudemire’s agent Happy Walters had a late-night conversation with Suns owner Robert Sarver, who insisted he couldn’t wait any longer on Stoudemire’s decision and would need to consider other options. Stoudemire is not ready to commit, sources said, until he sees how the rest of the free-agent market plays out.
> 
> The Suns made a last-ditch proposal to Stoudemire, offering him a maximum contract with the first three years worth about $71 million guaranteed, sources said. The fourth season of the offer contained a 50 percent guarantee that could become fully guaranteed based on the number of minutes Stoudemire played in the first three seasons. The fifth season of the contract also could become guaranteed based on a minutes incentive.
> 
> The Suns put in the incentives because of concerns over Stoudemire’s past knee and eye injuries. Insurance won’t cover Stoudemire’s salary if he can’t play because of any additional problems to either of his knees or his right eye.


http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AqBzvguDtHCpfJ64czKTAGW8vLYF?slug=ys-freeagentbuzz070210


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## Hyperion

*Re: Update: Amare turns down Suns 5-yr/$95M with stipulations, has MAX offer from Kni*

His agent is really really stupid. I can't believe his agent's name has come up this much in his negotiations.


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## Diable

*Re: Update: Amare turns down Suns 5-yr/$95M with stipulations, has MAX offer from Kni*

In my opinion this isn't really a serious contract offer. Instead it's a fig leaf so the Suns fans will say that Amare turned them down. All along Sarver knows perfectly well that Amare isn't going to agree to those stipulations because he would have exactly the same concerns they do and because he's going to get an offer from the Knicks without those stipulations. Sarver is just trying to cover his ass.


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## Seuss

*Re: Update: Amare turns down Suns 5-yr/$95M with stipulations, has MAX offer from Kni*

Bye Amare, have fun becoming the next Zach Randolph in New York. 

If winning doesn't come at SOME price, than what does? You can have all the money in the world, but if you don't want to be a part of a winning team, with classy players, than good riddance.


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## MeirToTheWise

*Re: Update: Amare turns down Suns 5-yr/$95M with stipulations, has MAX offer from Kni*

To be somewhat fair, Sarver is a douche.


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## green machine

*Re: Update: Amare turns down Suns 5-yr/$95M with stipulations, has MAX offer from Kni*



MeirToTheWise said:


> To be somewhat fair, Sarver is a douche.


:glowllama:

I totally agree, I just wanted to use the glowing llama. Sweet.


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## l0st1

*Re: Update: Amare turns down Suns 5-yr/$95M with stipulations, has MAX offer from Kni*

You would , green.


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## Dissonance

*Re: Update: Goodbye Amare; Knicks sign Stoudemire to 5-yr/$100M deal*

Blah. This sucks. As much as I was pissed at him for his play end of the yr vs LA, would've liked to see them work it out. It's ridiculous after how many yrs seeing the core/some of your favorite players get stripped away the way they have. Now, to see arguably your favorite go...





> NEW YORK -- The New York Knicks have reached an agreement in principle with free agent Amare Stoudemire.
> 
> The All-Star forward is seeking a maximum contract that would reunite him with coach Mike D'Antoni.
> 
> Stoudemire's agent, Happy Walters, said last week there was a "structure of an offer on the table." Stoudemire can earn about $100 million in a five-year contract from the Knicks.
> 
> Stoudemire arrived in New York on Saturday and the free agent met with team officials Monday afternoon.
> 
> The Knicks also spoke with LeBron James, Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh last week.
> 
> The Knicks have been assured that the signing of Stoudemire will not be a deterrent to James signing in New York, sources told ESPN.com's Chris Sheridan and Chris Broussard.
> 
> Stoudemire has spent his entire career in Phoenix, where he played under D'Antoni before the coach came to New York in 2008.
> 
> Signs throughout the entrances to Madison Square Garden showed the player pictured in a Knicks uniform and read "Welcome, Amare Stoudemire."


http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/nba/news/story?id=5356502


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## Zei_Zao_LS

*Re: Update: Goodbye Amare; Knicks sign Stoudemire to 5-yr/$100M deal*

The fact that Sarver didn't even bother to get a pick or two in a sign and trade from somebody is absolutely mind boggling. Do you really need to lock up Hakim ****ing Warrick at the expense of not getting a trade exception and a pick or two.. or three? Seriously? 

Regardless of anyone's problems with Amare, he's not the kind of player you just let walk away for nothing when you damn well could get something.


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## l0st1

*Re: Update: Goodbye Amare; Knicks sign Stoudemire to 5-yr/$100M deal*

I really wish we had an owner that allowed our team to spend more than a season together. We are constantly rebuilding this team around the same 3 or so players. And it's irritating. I'd like to see a team stay together for 2,3,4 years. Not 1 and then move some players out. I understand retooling and trying to improve his part of the business but jesus. How hard is it to NOT alienate your players Sarver. 

I'm still a little confused why Amare thought it would be best to go to NY instead of staying? Our offer couldn't of been much less. So unless there is some unreleased news about his knees that is detering him from the stipulations Sarver put on the offer, I don't get why he wouldn't of stayed. He said he wanted to stay he said he wanted to play for a championship. Our team showed we have the capabilities to get to that point with some TWEAKS not this. BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH


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## green machine

*Re: Update: Goodbye Amare; Knicks sign Stoudemire to 5-yr/$100M deal*



l0st1 said:


> I really wish we had an owner that allowed our team to spend more than a season together. We are constantly rebuilding this team around the same 3 or so players. And it's irritating. I'd like to see a team stay together for 2,3,4 years. Not 1 and then move some players out. I understand retooling and trying to improve his part of the business but jesus. How hard is it to NOT alienate your players Sarver.
> 
> I'm still a little confused why Amare thought it would be best to go to NY instead of staying? Our offer couldn't of been much less. So unless there is some unreleased news about his knees that is detering him from the stipulations Sarver put on the offer, I don't get why he wouldn't of stayed. He said he wanted to stay he said he wanted to play for a championship. Our team showed we have the capabilities to get to that point with some TWEAKS not this. BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH


Lost, it's easy to see who Sarver is building around: Nash and Hill. Seems like a great idea going forward.


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## Dissonance

*Re: Update: Goodbye Amare; Knicks sign Stoudemire to 5-yr/$100M deal (possible S/T)*



> The Suns still might be able to get something out of Amar'e Stoudemire's departure after all.
> 
> Even with Stoudemire agreeing to a five-year, $99.7 million deal with the New York Knicks, the Suns are working on being able to use Stoudemire's rights in a sign-and-trade deal with the Knicks for a trade exception or perhaps even free-agent power forward David Lee.
> 
> 
> 
> The Suns would do so by also executing a sign-and-trade deal with Chicago and Hakim Warrick, who finished last season with the Bulls.
> 
> The Suns agreed to a four-year, $18 million deal with Warrick on Thursday night after Stoudemire had rejected the Suns' five-year, $96.6 million offer that included partial fourth- and fifth-year guarantees.
> 
> If the Suns do a sign-and-trade for Stoudemire first, they could receive a trade exception of up to about $17 million in return, unless a Lee contract is included. The Suns would then use part of that exception for the first $4 million year of Warrick's contract in a sign-and-trade with Chicago.
> 
> Chicago could benefit by getting a second-round draft pick from Phoenix, which might be able to get a second-round pick and a trade exception or Lee from New York. The Knicks benefit with a small bump in cap space by starting Stoudemire's contract at a lower first-year salary because the deal can have 10.5 percent raises via Phoenix rather than 8 percent raises if done by New York.
> 
> Otherwise, the Suns, after more than two years of considering trading Stoudemire, would see him leave for New York without any compensation, other than getting salary-cap relief and no longer being a luxury-tax-paying team.
> 
> "If we can do something to help Phoenix, we will," Stoudemire's agent, Happy Walters, said.
> 
> NBA free agents can't sign until Thursday.


http://www.azcentral.com/sports/sun...suns-amare-stoudemire-plan.html#ixzz0ssT47RY8


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## green machine

*Re: Update: Goodbye Amare; Knicks sign Stoudemire to 5-yr/$100M deal (possible S/T)*



Organized Chaos said:


> http://www.azcentral.com/sports/sun...suns-amare-stoudemire-plan.html#ixzz0ssT47RY8


Not a chance. Why would the Knicks, who already have an agreement with STAT, agree to give up assets just to sign him for one more year and a lot more money?

Sarver messed this one up bad, and now he's going to try to spin it in a way that makes it appear he tried his best to get something for Amare. I don't blame them for not giving Amare the guaranteed max, but to not be able to get anything for the guy just goes to show how badly this team needs a real GM, not an owner moonlighting as one.


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## Damian Necronamous

*Re: Goodbye Amare; Knicks sign Stoudemire to 5-yr/$100M deal(Update: PHX exploring S/*

Like it says in the article, they wouldn't be signing him for another year or for more money. In fact, the deal would save the Knicks a little cap room this offseason.

Read the article. It makes sense.


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## Dissonance

*Re: Goodbye Amare; Knicks sign Stoudemire to 5-yr/$100M deal(Update: PHX exploring S/*

It doesn't sound like they'd give him the 6th yr. It'd just be based off this deal. It tells you the benefit from NY's side of it in the article. It'll give em a small bump in space by starting him at a lower salary and with 10.5 percent raises instead of 8. 

Any deal can change by Thursday. I've seen this before with other teams that they work it out after agreeing with a FA. Orlando couple yrs ago. 

17 TE isn't really giving up any assets. I doubt we'd get Lee though.


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## green machine

*Re: Goodbye Amare; Knicks sign Stoudemire to 5-yr/$100M deal(Update: PHX exploring S/*



Damian Necronamous said:


> Like it says in the article, they wouldn't be signing him for another year or for more money. In fact, the deal would save the Knicks a little cap room this offseason.
> 
> Read the article. It makes sense.





Organized Chaos said:


> It doesn't sound like they'd give him the 6th yr. It'd just be based off this deal. It tells you the benefit from NY's side of it in the article. It'll give em a small bump in space by starting him at a lower salary and with 10.5 percent raises instead of 8.
> 
> Any deal can change by Thursday. I've seen this before with other teams that they work it out after agreeing with a FA. Orlando couple yrs ago.
> 
> 17 TE isn't really giving up any assets. I doubt we'd get Lee though.


Reading is fundamental, I guess.

Either way I have absolutely no confidence that Sarver can pull off getting something in return and, if he gets the trade exception, will actually spend it. I think they got a trade exception when they moved Kurt Thomas a few years back and added a whole lot of nothing with it.


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## 29380

*Re: Goodbye Amare; Knicks sign Stoudemire to 5-yr/$100M deal(Update: PHX exploring S/*

I thought the suns gave up Amare's rights.


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## Dissonance

*Re: Goodbye Amare; Knicks sign Stoudemire to 5-yr/$100M deal(Update: PHX exploring S/*

It was only rumored or thought to be that they'd renounce them. It couldn't officially be done until Thursday.


I agree though green machine. I don't have confidence either. Though part of Warrick's salary it'll be used for apparently.


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## l0st1

*Re: Update: Goodbye Amare; Knicks sign Stoudemire to 5-yr/$100M deal*



green machine said:


> Reading is fundamental, I guess.
> 
> Either way I have absolutely no confidence that Sarver can pull off getting something in return and, if he gets the trade exception, will actually spend it. I think they got a trade exception when they moved Kurt Thomas a few years back and added a whole lot of nothing with it.


I love that quote! Reading is fundamental! Not sure if you got that from the same movie but it's a great line if you did.




green machine said:


> Lost, it's easy to see who Sarver is building around: Nash and Hill. Seems like a great idea going forward.


Pfft, I see him building around nobody. He's slowly shipping players out for less and less of a return. Infact I might actually think LESS of Hill and Nash for not demanding a trade just to spite this guy.



If it IS true that we can somehow work out a S&T then I'll be fine with letting Amare walk. Assuming we get and/or USE what we get in the trade. Meaning either get Lee on a decent contract or get a TPE and actually use it on someone. 

I'm not 100% on the rules of TPE's. Can we use it on multiple players? I thought I read somewhere that in order to use a Trace Exception you can only use it on one player


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## Hyperion

*Re: Goodbye Amare; Knicks sign Stoudemire to 5-yr/$100M deal(Update: PHX exploring S/*

You can only use it for one trade, but for multiple players. However, Amare wants the money. If the Suns are willing to sign him to the max, he'll stay. If the Suns are willing to do a sign and trade for the max, he'll agree. Money talks and $30million talks like a girl on a phone (very very loudly). If the Suns don't feel that Amare is worth max, but see a player who is, they may be able to work out a S&T like maybe with Toronto. That would be the best case scenario.


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## green machine

*Re: Goodbye Amare; Knicks sign Stoudemire to 5-yr/$100M deal(Update: PHX exploring S/*



Hyperion said:


> You can only use it for one trade, but for multiple players. However, Amare wants the money. If the Suns are willing to sign him to the max, he'll stay. If the Suns are willing to do a sign and trade for the max, he'll agree. Money talks and $30million talks like a girl on a phone (very very loudly). If the Suns don't feel that Amare is worth max, but see a player who is, they may be able to work out a S&T like maybe with Toronto. That would be the best case scenario.


Amare is going to New York. Any idea that he will come back to the Suns or maybe end up in Toronto is purely false.


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## Hyperion

*Re: Goodbye Amare; Knicks sign Stoudemire to 5-yr/$100M deal(Update: PHX exploring S/*



green machine said:


> Amare is going to New York. Any idea that he will come back to the Suns or maybe end up in Toronto is purely false.


I can give you about 30 million reasons why he could end up in a Suns jersey or Raps jersey.


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## green machine

*Re: Goodbye Amare; Knicks sign Stoudemire to 5-yr/$100M deal(Update: PHX exploring S/*



Hyperion said:


> I can give you about 30 million reasons why he could end up in a Suns jersey or Raps jersey.


I'll give you one to show he can't: He already agreed to go to the Knicks for 5 years and 100 million. Sure, they may be able to work in an extra year and 30 million or so, but he's going to be a Knick. Not sure why you can't accept that fact, but guys don't come out, wear the team's hat, say "the Knicks are back" and start recruiting for that team only to change their minds.


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## Dissonance

*Re: Goodbye Amare; Knicks sign Stoudemire to 5-yr/$100M deal(Update: PHX exploring S/*



Hyperion said:


> I can give you about 30 million reasons why he could end up in a Suns jersey or Raps jersey.


It's way beyond late for that.


And neither would be willing to give that up for him. Hell, NY was only one to want to give 100M - that's why he's going there really. Others weren't unless James was attached somehow.


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## Diable

*Re: Goodbye Amare; Knicks sign Stoudemire to 5-yr/$100M deal(Update: PHX exploring S/*

You can talk about that 30 million all you want. Robert Sarver is only talking about a far inferior offer to what the Knicks have offered. What you say about 30 million dollars don't give Amare that 30 million and neither will Sarver.


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## l0st1

*Re: Goodbye Amare; Knicks sign Stoudemire to 5-yr/$100M deal(Update: PHX exploring S/*

There is ZERO chance Amare resigns with us. So might as well not even bring that up. If Amare's Agent is sincere in his claims that they will do whatever they can to help the Suns franchise as they walk out the door then hopefully by some miracle we can get a S&T done.


I mean it's pretty obvious that with that TPE we would be able to land Lebron ..... Ok maybe not but Bosh wouldn't be out of the question.


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## Dissonance

*Re: Goodbye Amare; Knicks sign Stoudemire to 5-yr/$100M deal(Update: PHX exploring S/*

Furthest guaranteed he was willing to go was 4-yrs/84M or so. 

Final offer was 5 yr/97M (70-80M guranteed). He had to play at least 30 mins those final 2 yrs for it to become guaranteed. He wasn't taking that.


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## Hyperion

*Re: Goodbye Amare; Knicks sign Stoudemire to 5-yr/$100M deal(Update: PHX exploring S/*



green machine said:


> I'll give you one to show he can't: He already agreed to go to the Knicks for 5 years and 100 million. Sure, they may be able to work in an extra year and 30 million or so, but he's going to be a Knick. Not sure why you can't accept that fact, but guys don't come out, wear the team's hat, say "the Knicks are back" and start recruiting for that team only to change their minds.


We have to sit and see. A lot can happen in two days. No one has signed with anyone yet. The Suns can make that ludicrous offer or get a panicked Colangelo to make a trade that saves both franchises.



l0st1 said:


> There is ZERO chance Amare resigns with us. So might as well not even bring that up. If Amare's Agent is sincere in his claims that they will do whatever they can to help the Suns franchise as they walk out the door then hopefully by some miracle we can get a S&T done.
> 
> 
> I mean it's pretty obvious that with that TPE we would be able to land Lebron ..... Ok maybe not but Bosh wouldn't be out of the question.


Sign and trade should happen.


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## Knick Killer

*Re: Goodbye Amare; Knicks sign Stoudemire to 5-yr/$100M deal(Update: PHX exploring S/*

With Amare probably leaving, I don't see Nash wanting to stick around til the end of his career in Phoenix anymore.


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## Hyperion

*Re: Goodbye Amare; Knicks sign Stoudemire to 5-yr/$100M deal(Update: PHX exploring S/*



Knick_Killer31 said:


> With Amare probably leaving, I don't see Nash wanting to stick around til the end of his career in Phoenix anymore.


Both years?


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## Zei_Zao_LS

*Re: Goodbye Amare; Knicks sign Stoudemire to 5-yr/$100M deal(Update: PHX exploring S/*

There's some talk of the Suns looking into getting David Lee in the S&T if they can. I'd definitely be pro-actually getting a player for Amare.


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## Diable

*Re: Goodbye Amare; Knicks sign Stoudemire to 5-yr/$100M deal(Update: PHX exploring S/*

I'm guessing that Sarver wouldn't pay Luxury tax for Lee...I don't believe I would either, but I'm not sure what the Suns tax situation is. I guess unless you get something else like cash Lee's deal would have to start out at three quarters of what Amare's deal does...Ouch


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## Zei_Zao_LS

*Re: Goodbye Amare; Knicks sign Stoudemire to 5-yr/$100M deal(Update: PHX exploring S/*



Diable said:


> I'm guessing that Sarver wouldn't pay Luxury tax for Lee...I don't believe I would either, but I'm not sure what the Suns tax situation is. I guess unless you get something else like cash Lee's deal would have to start out at three quarters of what Amare's deal does...Ouch


Well, without Amare our cap figure sits at $43M. Adding Channing Frye (About $5.7 first year) and Hakim Warrick (about $3.7 first year), that's $52M in salaries. If you add Lee at $12M or $13M that doesn't put the Suns into luxury tax land.

Also worth noting, the Suns appear to be looking to move Leandro's $7.1M for cap relief, which would move the Suns even further from luxury tax land.


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## Dissonance

*Re: Goodbye Amare; Knicks sign Stoudemire to 5-yr/$100M deal(Update: PHX exploring S/*

Weird how we went from no interest to tracking for awhile.



> Phoenix Suns tracking David Lee 'for a while'
> 
> by Paul Coro - Jul. 6, 2010 08:28 PM
> The Arizona Republic
> 
> 
> There might not be one power forward who could fill the void Amar'e Stoudemire will leave in Phoenix.
> 
> To that end, the Suns are exploring the possibility of acquiring free-agent power forward David Lee.That would come after last week's free-agent agreement with power forward Hakim Warrick and last month's drafting of power forwards Gani Lawal and Dwayne Collins.
> 
> 
> We've talked to them for a quite awhile," Lee's agent, Mark Bartelstein, said of the Suns. "There are so many things going on with David that it's hard to tell what will happen."
> 
> The Lee possibility gained momentum this week when the Suns discovered a way to get a return on the Stoudemire loss by executing sign-and-trade deals with New York and Chicago. First, the Suns would have New York sign Lee and trade him with a $4 million trade exception, and possibly a second-round pick, to the Suns, who would sign Stoudemire's contract for New York to make the swap.
> 
> A Lee contract would figure to be worth eight figures annually. The Suns would use the trade exception for Warrick, whom Chicago would sign for the Suns and get a second-round pick for its trouble.
> 
> Because of how many teams are interested in signing Lee as a free agent, a trade involving him is not as likely. A sign-and-trade deal with the Knicks then would net the Suns a $17 million trade exception.
> 
> A trade exception could be used in the next year to deal for a high-salary player rather than having to send back a Suns player - or package of players - of similar salary in a deal.


http://www.azcentral.com/sports/sun...0706phoenix-suns-david-lee.html#ixzz0syMSJgsB


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## Hyperion

*Re: Goodbye Amare; Knicks sign Stoudemire to 5-yr/$100M deal(Update: PHX exploring S/*



Zei_Zao_LS said:


> Well, without Amare our cap figure sits at $43M. Adding Channing Frye (About $5.7 first year) and Hakim Warrick (about $3.7 first year), that's $52M in salaries. If you add Lee at $12M or $13M that doesn't put the Suns into luxury tax land.
> 
> Also worth noting, the Suns appear to be looking to move Leandro's $7.1M for cap relief, which would move the Suns even further from luxury tax land.


Yeah, I'll be sorry to see Leandro go, but he just hasn't turned that corner and I don't think he will. He's kinda topped out as a streaky bench player that plays boneheaded defense sometimes and ballhogs it on offense.

I think the Suns would be very nicely reloaded for next year since Lee at least puts his hands over his head for rebounds and defense. He just played defense for NY. He's a 20-10 guy who will give us average defense. Hell, it may even be above average with Lopez there.

EDIT: If we get Lee, there's really no point in getting Warrick unless we're going to groom him to play SF.


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## green machine

*Re: Goodbye Amare; Knicks sign Stoudemire to 5-yr/$100M deal(Update: PHX exploring S/*



Hyperion said:


> We have to sit and see. A lot can happen in two days. No one has signed with anyone yet. The Suns can make that ludicrous offer or get a panicked Colangelo to make a trade that saves both franchises.
> 
> 
> Sign and trade should happen.


Without sounding like a total douche, I can't believe you just don't get the fact that Amare agreed to join the Knicks. Other teams are out of it, and the Suns have no control over where Stoudemire is playing next year. As a free agent he could choose his spot, and he agreed to a deal with the Knicks. That's where he's going, and any different idea is just plain ludicrous. 

As for a sign and trade, we'll see. Zero faith in Sarver to make it happen, especially since he has no leverage here.


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## Hyperion

*Re: Goodbye Amare; Knicks sign Stoudemire to 5-yr/$100M deal(Update: PHX exploring S/*



green machine said:


> Without sounding like a total douche, I can't believe you just don't get the fact that Amare agreed to join the Knicks.


..... AMARE WANTS MAX MONEY. HE WOULD PLAY FOR MEMPHIS FOR MAX MONEY. THE SUNS CAN OFFER MORE MONEY THAN ANY TEAM AND IF ANY TEAM OFFERS A S&T TO THE SUNS BETWEEN NOW AND WHEN AMARE SIGNS ON THE DOTTED LINE FOR NY, HE WILL GO FOR THE EXTRA CASH AND FORCE NY TO MATCH OR LEAVE EMPTY HANDED.

I really don't see what's so hard to grasp about that concept. Nothing is set in stone yet. Once they sign the papers then it's set in stone. Until then, there is no deal.


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## green machine

*Re: Goodbye Amare; Knicks sign Stoudemire to 5-yr/$100M deal(Update: PHX exploring S/*



Hyperion said:


> ..... AMARE WANTS MAX MONEY. HE WOULD PLAY FOR MEMPHIS FOR MAX MONEY. THE SUNS CAN OFFER MORE MONEY THAN ANY TEAM AND IF ANY TEAM OFFERS A S&T TO THE SUNS BETWEEN NOW AND WHEN AMARE SIGNS ON THE DOTTED LINE FOR NY, HE WILL GO FOR THE EXTRA CASH AND FORCE NY TO MATCH OR LEAVE EMPTY HANDED.
> 
> I really don't see what's so hard to grasp about that concept. Nothing is set in stone yet. Once they sign the papers then it's set in stone. Until then, there is no deal.


:beheader: Ugh.


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## Dissonance

*Re: Goodbye Amare; Knicks sign Stoudemire to 5-yr/$100M deal(Update: PHX exploring S/*



Hyperion said:


> ..... AMARE WANTS MAX MONEY. HE WOULD PLAY FOR MEMPHIS FOR MAX MONEY. THE SUNS CAN OFFER MORE MONEY THAN ANY TEAM AND IF ANY TEAM OFFERS A S&T TO THE SUNS BETWEEN NOW AND WHEN AMARE SIGNS ON THE DOTTED LINE FOR NY, HE WILL GO FOR THE EXTRA CASH AND FORCE NY TO MATCH OR LEAVE EMPTY HANDED.
> 
> I really don't see what's so hard to grasp about that concept. Nothing is set in stone yet. Once they sign the papers then it's set in stone. Until then, there is no deal.


Dude. It doesn't have to be signed to be set in stone.

Minute he agreed, he was already on marquee and they have billboards in a Knicks jersey. Hell, they're already selling his jersey first day.

IT'S DONE. Get over it. Too late for him back out and go elsewhere.


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## Hyperion

*Re: Goodbye Amare; Knicks sign Stoudemire to 5-yr/$100M deal(Update: PHX exploring S/*



Organized Chaos said:


> Dude. It doesn't have to be signed to be set in stone.
> 
> Minute he agreed, he was already on marquee and they have billboards in a Knicks jersey. Hell, they're already selling his jersey first day.
> 
> IT'S DONE. Get over it. Too late for him back out and go elsewhere.


A sign and trade with the Knicks may occur, but what I'm most interested in is Colangelo's panic to see if he can get a Bosh/Amare max for max switcharoo. It seems highly unlikely, but things aren't done until they're done. That's all my point is. Amare shouldn't have put on the NY hat until he signs the dotted line.


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## green machine

*Re: Goodbye Amare; Knicks sign Stoudemire to 5-yr/$100M deal(Update: PHX exploring S/*



Hyperion said:


> A sign and trade with the Knicks may occur, but what I'm most interested in is Colangelo's panic to see if he can get a Bosh/Amare max for max switcharoo. It seems highly unlikely, but things aren't done until they're done. That's all my point is. *Amare shouldn't have put on the NY hat until he signs the dotted line.*


But he did, which should be enough for you to understand that's where he's going. 

Colangelo can panic all he wants, but Amare gets to choose where he's playing, and that is New York.

Oh, and if you're still not convinced Amare will 100 percent be a Knick next year, check out his web site.

http://amarestoudemire.com/


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## Zei_Zao_LS

*Re: Goodbye Amare; Knicks sign Stoudemire to 5-yr/$100M deal(Update: PHX exploring S/*

Amare is gone, it's really about what we might be able to get for him. Very best case scenario remains David Lee.


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## green machine

*Re: Goodbye Amare; Knicks sign Stoudemire to 5-yr/$100M deal(Update: PHX exploring S/*



Zei_Zao_LS said:


> Amare is gone, it's really about what we might be able to get for him. Very best case scenario remains David Lee.


Disagree. All Lee would do is ensure the team isn't awful, but in no way is he enough of an impact player to make a difference in leading this team to a title. The Suns need to rebuild, not try to maintain mediocrity.


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## Zei_Zao_LS

*Re: Goodbye Amare; Knicks sign Stoudemire to 5-yr/$100M deal(Update: PHX exploring S/*

I'd rather have a team that can be a 4-6 seed for the last couple years of Nash's career than go into rebuilding mode. It makes literally no sense to rebuild around a 36 year old point guard.


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## green machine

*Re: Goodbye Amare; Knicks sign Stoudemire to 5-yr/$100M deal(Update: PHX exploring S/*



Zei_Zao_LS said:


> I'd rather have a team that can be a 4-6 seed for the last couple years of Nash's career than go into rebuilding mode. It makes literally no sense to rebuild around a 36 year old point guard.


With Lee the Suns are not a 4-6 seed, try 6-8 at best. He's a major step down from Amare, believe me.

As for rebuilding around a 36 year old PG, I agree. The Suns need to tear it all down and start over, not try to hang on with a core that hasn't won a title just for the sake of selling tickets.


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## Hyperion

*Re: Goodbye Amare; Knicks sign Stoudemire to 5-yr/$100M deal(Update: PHX exploring S/*

I still think the Suns can win it all even without Amare. I think his defense negates any good he does on offense and his postseason performance that he turned in this year was underwhelming to say the least. No Lee isn't Dwight, but he is better than Amare in the defense department and we'll see how he develops a jump shot. I honestly don't care if he is just a garbage man around the hoop, the Suns have enough offense to carry the night. Lopez will add more range to his game and he'll probably become the focus of the pick n roll with Nash. Either way, I don't see this team taking a step back with so many young players developing so quickly. Dragic, Lee, Richardson, Lopez, Dudley, Frye, hopefully Amundson, with Nash and Hill will be a contending team. Regardless, he's a good addition to the team for the future.


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## green machine

*Re: Goodbye Amare; Knicks sign Stoudemire to 5-yr/$100M deal(Update: PHX exploring S/*



Hyperion said:


> I still think the Suns can win it all even without Amare. I think his defense negates any good he does on offense and his postseason performance that he turned in this year was underwhelming to say the least. No Lee isn't Dwight, but he is better than Amare in the defense department and we'll see how he develops a jump shot. I honestly don't care if he is just a garbage man around the hoop, the Suns have enough offense to carry the night. Lopez will add more range to his game and he'll probably become the focus of the pick n roll with Nash. Either way, I don't see this team taking a step back with so many young players developing so quickly. Dragic, Lee, Richardson, Lopez, Dudley, Frye, hopefully Amundson, with Nash and Hill will be a contending team. Regardless, he's a good addition to the team for the future.


Lee is a better rebounder than Amare.
Amare is a much better scorer than Lee.
Both aren't good defenders.

The biggest loss from Amare will be open looks on the outside from teams having to double STAT, as well as getting to the free throw line. Nobody on the Suns right now will get to the line with any consistency, which will really hurt the Suns.


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## Hyperion

*Re: Goodbye Amare; Knicks sign Stoudemire to 5-yr/$100M deal(Update: PHX exploring S/*

No one ever doubled STAT, he never had a back to the basket game. He would hang out 15 feet from the hoop and get the ball and either pull up for a jumper and slash to the hoop. Regardless he never got doubled unless he dribbled into trouble.

Nash's dribble penetration would collapse the defense or pull them away from the defender.


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## green machine

*Re: Goodbye Amare; Knicks sign Stoudemire to 5-yr/$100M deal(Update: PHX exploring S/*



Hyperion said:


> *No one ever doubled STAT, he never had a back to the basket game. He would hang out 15 feet from the hoop and get the ball and either pull up for a jumper and slash to the hoop. Regardless he never got doubled unless he dribbled into trouble.*
> 
> Nash's dribble penetration would collapse the defense or pull them away from the defender.


I'm sorry to hear you had no access to a TV during the entire playoffs and were unable to watch the Suns. It was a hell of a run.


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## Damian Necronamous

*Re: Goodbye Amare; Knicks sign Stoudemire to 5-yr/$100M deal(Update: PHX exploring S/*

The Suns should be pouncing on this right now. Offer Lee the same deal Boozer got.

Nash/Dragic
Richardson/Barbosa
Hill/Dudley
Warrick/Frye/Clark
Lee/Lopez

Hell, that might even be a better team than what they had last year. David Lee is just too perfect for the Suns' offense for them NOT to do everything they can to sign him.

They'd even finally have some depth up front. It wouldn't be a big front line, but it would be deep.


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## l0st1

*Re: Goodbye Amare; Knicks sign Stoudemire to 5-yr/$100M deal(Update: PHX exploring S/*

Wait are you seriously suggesting starting Warrick at PF and Lee at C? So basically the only guy that will even think about defense in our starting lineup is a 36(37?) year old Grant Hill? HORRIBLE starting lineup. 

I had this discussion with green the other night. I like Lee and wouldn't mind us getting him in return. But then we need to move Nash. Let him go to another team that can help him atleast reach the final. I'm not sure why you think we would still be a contending team. Lee is NOT better defensively than Amare. They are both bad, but Amare atleast has size and quickness to attempt to do something. Lee not so much. That team you posted is not as good as last years.


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## green machine

*Re: Goodbye Amare; Knicks sign Stoudemire to 5-yr/$100M deal(Update: PHX exploring S/*

Looks like it will be a sign and trade with a trade exception coming to Phoenix. From Happy Walters' Twitter to Paul Coro:

@paulcoro there will be a sign and trade with NY. Will give youall more cap space. courtesy of Amar'e.


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## Dissonance

*Re: Goodbye Amare; Knicks sign Stoudemire to 5-yr/$100M deal(Update: PHX exploring S/*

Probably getting a TE, yeah.

But yeah, no way Lee would unseat Lopez as the starter. Lee would start at PF. Even though, it's unlikely to happen, I don't think we contend with him but I don't think you move Nash if you're gonna spend the money to get him. We should move Nash now that we didn't keep Amare but to Sarver, he is the money maker. Wait until he finds out allowing Amare to walk will do. We couldn't sell out last yr as a top team.


I still wish we could somehow get Anthony Randolph. Get him away from Nelson and POS org. He'd flourish here.


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## Zei_Zao_LS

*Re: Goodbye Amare; Knicks sign Stoudemire to 5-yr/$100M deal(Update: PHX exploring S/*

Lee isn't as bad statistically as his stats would indicate. He's not a center, and he was the closest thing to a shotblocker the Knicks had. The Knicks had right next to zero defensive rotation scheme, terrible help defense, and basically none of their players were committed to defense.

You put David Lee in a good defensive system where he's held accountable, which the Suns are starting to qualify as even without defensive personnel, and he will at least make the proper rotations, be in the right spot. Nobody who hustles like he does has no desire to play defense, he's just been stuck in New York for long enough that people think he's incapable of playing defense. He'd never be a shotblocker, and he's never going to be a 90th percentile isolation defender... but he's more than capable of being an above average team defender, and he's definitely a player who puts in work on his game.


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## 29380

*Re: Goodbye Amare; Knicks sign Stoudemire to 5-yr/$100M deal(Update: PHX exploring S/*

It's a S&T.


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## Dissonance

*Re: Goodbye Amare; Knicks sign Stoudemire to 5-yr/$100M deal(Update: PHX/NY to do S/T*



> The Suns will use Amar'e Stoudemire's official departure today to make a pair of sign-and-trade deals with New York and Chicago, netting the Suns a $16.5 million trade exception from the Knicks and using part of that for Hakim Warrick's acquisition, according to Stoudemire's agent, Happy Walters.
> 
> Walters said the trade exception the Suns are receiving in return for first signing Stoudemire to his five-year, $99.7 million contract with New York is for $16.5 million, equivalent to Stoudemire's first-year salary. That means the Suns would not be getting a player, like free agent David Lee in return.
> 
> However, if LeBron James picks New York today, the Suns could still have a chance at Lee. The Suns would have to do a sign-and-trade with New York before the Knicks signed James. Even then, they would have to outdo other suitors, who might be offering Lee more money or be offering New York a better package. Golden State was close to an agreement that would send Anthony Randolph, Ronny Turiaf and Kelenna Azubuike to New York but Lee would have to agree to going to the Warriors. Also, Phoenix is debating whether it would give Lee a contract averaging about $13 million annually like he wants. By comparison, Steve Nash will make $10.3 million this season.
> 
> The Suns could use a trade exception over the next year to acquire a player of less than or close to the exception's value (about $13.5 million after the Warrick deal is done) without having to send any Suns players in a deal.
> 
> It was expected that New York would receive a second-round pick in such an arrangement, as well as about $800,000 in extra salary cap space this year by being able to start Stoudemire's contract at a lower first-year salary. By Phoenix signing Stoudemire before trading him, the contract can have 10.5 percent raises to get to the same $99.7 million total as he would have by signing with New York with eight percent raises.
> 
> "We really did care about Robert (Sarver) and Alvin (Gentry) and the team and how we could help any way we could," Walters said. "It doesn't give Amar'e any more money. He actually takes a pay cut in the first year of $800,000. It gives them flexibility and hopefully it helps them in the future."
> 
> By doing the Stoudemire sign-and-trade first, the Suns then need to use $4 million of that trade exception to acquire Warrick by having Chicago, where he finished last season, sign him to the contract offer he accepted from the Suns last week. Phoenix would be expected to receive a second-round pick from Chicago and would not be willing to take Luol Deng's contract with the exception too.
> 
> If the Suns get a full exception from New York and do the Warrick sign-and-trade, the would have a $13.5 million trade exception for the next year.
> 
> If they don't acquire Lee, the Suns also will have about $4 million in salary cap space this summer for a free agent.


http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blog/PaulCoro/88449


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## l0st1

*Re: Goodbye Amare; Knicks sign Stoudemire to 5-yr/$100M deal(Update: PHX/NY to do S/T*

Interesting. Let's see if our tight ass owner will actually use it.


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## King Joseus

*Re: Goodbye Amare; Knicks sign Stoudemire to 5-yr/$100M deal(Update: PHX/NY to do S/T*



Organized Chaos said:


> http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blog/PaulCoro/88449


Wait, so the Bulls get a trade exception from that Warrick deal?


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## Dissonance

*Re: Goodbye Amare; Knicks sign Stoudemire to 5-yr/$100M deal (PHX gets 16.5M TE in S/*

I think it was mistake. Bulls should and would be getting a future 2nd from PHX.


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## King Joseus

*Re: Goodbye Amare; Knicks sign Stoudemire to 5-yr/$100M deal (PHX gets 16.5M TE in S/*



Organized Chaos said:


> I think it was mistake. Bulls should and would be getting a future 2nd from PHX.


Not all that important in the long run, but hey, anything to distract me from LeBron news...


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