# Rasheed Wallace



## crandc (Sep 15, 2004)

No, this is not OT.
I've mentioned in passing that I cover the NBA for another web site (outsports.com under the _nom de plume _ of Carol de Blazer). I am putting together a feature on Rasheed Wallace. Not just the player but the person. I won't go into all my ideas here, but basically I want to cover both the "sweet Sheed" and the "sour Sheed", and yes, they both exist. So what I am asking of Blazer fans (and also am asking Pistons fans) are:
1. your best and/or worst memories of Wallace
2. Sadly, I can't talk to him personally. I have some good resources but if you have a favorite article (illustrating either the sweet or the sour) and can post a link it'd be appreciated
3. Wallace does excite strong feelings both positive and negative. And some people feel both ways about him. I am wondering if a person's demographics relate to how he/she feels about Sheed so when you are telling your tales I'd appreciate it (although of course this is your choice) if you would also tell your age, male/female and ethnic identity.
Please feel free to PM me if you don't want to post publicly. Any cooperation is greatly appreciated.
Thanks.


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## Talkhard (May 13, 2003)

You had to love the screaming fits he threw every time a call went against him. My favorite memory is of him lying on the court with his arms flailing back and forth like Darryl Hannah about to explode in Blade Runner.


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## handclap problematic (Nov 6, 2003)

Hello crandc. You probably want to check out a transcript of the interview he did on national tv a couple of years ago while he was still a Blazer. I don't remember who did the intereview....was it John Thompson?...or something like that.....
Anyways, it was during the phase where Sheed was considered the biggest cancer in basketball and the intereview focused on Sheed's commitments to his family and friends. He also talked about his reactions to fouls and how he feels about that. I remember it being a very candid interview and could be a great source. Anyways, it was aired I do believe during the playoffs after we were eliminated by the Mavs......that at least is my memory of it.
Prunetang


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## ABM (Dec 30, 2002)

Here are a couple of my favorite Sheed pics. 

(P.S. refer to my sig  )


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## TP3 (Jan 26, 2003)

Easily the best dodgeball player in Blazer history.


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## Stevenson (Aug 23, 2003)

He's certainly talking to the press now, isn't he? What a hypocrite.

Despite his protestations to teh contrary, Sheed obviously knows that he burned way to many bridges here and is acting differently in Detroit so as to not make the same mistakes.


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## ABM (Dec 30, 2002)

Stevenson said:


> Sheed obviously knows that he burned way to many bridges here....


...among other combustibles.


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## jwhoops11 (Nov 26, 2003)

Hey Crandc, hows it going?

The one thing that will always stand out in my mind, is the interview he gave to the national media outside of the Blazers locker room after the loss to the Lakers in game 7 of the WCF's 2001. 

I'm not sure how many of you caught it, I know I was about to flip off the TV when it came on, but It was really the only time I saw Sheed step up as this teams leader. He was sincere, honest, and basically said "we blew it, no excuses".

I think the one thing to me that stood out more than anything else in that interview was the atmosphere it was done in. Literally, the interview took place right outside a closed door Blazer locker room in the hallway of the Staples Center, with Sheed on an island by himself. I'm not a big Sheed guy, in fact I probably wanted him traded as much if not more than any other fan, but it took huge balls to stand in front of a swarm of media and take the heat for a team who really did choke away a championship. It wasn't Pippen, Smitty, or Damon taking the heat, it was Sheed all alone, and I'll always respect him for that.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

The "both teams played hard" comment he used to give the media is something I remember.....

or his chucking the ball at Ruben Boumtje Boumtje's head and running off thing sticks out to me...


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## Talkhard (May 13, 2003)

> or his chucking the ball at Ruben Boumtje Boumtje's head and running off thing sticks out to me...


If I'm not mistaken, he hit Ruben in the nuts with that ball, then ran away giggling with Bonzi Wells while Ruben writhed on the court in agony.

Yeah, Wallace was one classy guy.


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## Goldmember (May 24, 2003)

I loved the animated reactions. The hollering, dancing during timeouts, the fist pumping, etc. When Sheed was clicking, he was a lot of fun to watch. From the alley-oop dunks to the three pointers he can score anywhere on the floor. His defense is also fun to watch. He relies on footwork and timing more than muscle. He's kind of a throw back player in some ways. 

I hated that he complained after every call. I hated that he seemed to have his worst displays on national TV. Flailing on the ground, the Sabonis towel incident, etc. I also didn't like that he lacked killer instinct. It's not in his nature to try to take over games (although every once in a while he does - Miami/Detroit game 1 for example). For the most part he doesn't have a strong desire to take the big shots. 

I think Sheed has a very good bball IQ, but he is too content being just one of the fellas. If Sheed had a more selfish mindset he could have been one of the top players in the league. He struck gold landing in Detroit. That is a team that suits him perfectly. He plays a perfect style for what they do and he isn't in a position where they need him to be the man.


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## ABM (Dec 30, 2002)

Here's an interview (scroll down past the Cheeks' interview)

http://www.geocities.com/trailblazers2k/interviews.htm


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## ABM (Dec 30, 2002)

Here's what Charles Barkley Had To Say following Sheed's race interview:



> "The only way I'd take him is if I was going to let him go after the season and clear cap space," Barkley said. "What Rasheed said may be the stupidest thing I've ever heard in 20 years in the NBA.
> 
> "People who work for huge corporations and aren't making any money, those are the people being exploited. The companies are making millions and the employee is getting a penny. Sports are one of the only industries in the world where people can get fair market value for their services, even better than fair value.


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## ABM (Dec 30, 2002)

Here's a bit of filmography info.


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## ABM (Dec 30, 2002)

Here's some stuff from last season..



> During Rasheed Wallace's interview with Ahmad Rashad that aired last night on ABC before the San Antonio-Los Angeles Lakers playoff game, the Detroit Pistons forward from Simon Gratz High was asked how he thinks most people perceive him.
> 
> "Mean all the time," Wallace replied. "But, hey, if that's what keeps the crazy people away, then it's cool with me."
> 
> ...


 Mo?


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## ABM (Dec 30, 2002)

Lastly, something from Up North



> Doesn't Rasheed Wallace see the empty seats? Doesn't he read about the plummeting ratings? Doesn't he understand that most of those boos he hears from Portland's home crowd have nothing to do with his missed jumpers and almost everything to do with his misconduct?.......


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## CatchNRelease (Jan 2, 2003)

My favorite memories of Sheed are of him on the low block, shooting that sweet jumper, fading away....just about unstoppable.

My worst memory of him is when he came to the first practice after Bonzi Wells was traded. He wore an armband with Bonzi's number on it (maybe it was Bonzi's jersey?) to show his support of Bonzi over Mo. This was a huge slap in Mo's face, and convinced me that the inmates were running the asylum.

Go Blazers


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

I remember him as a team-oriented offensive player with a fabulous defensive game who was an enormous part of a Western Conference Finals team and an NBA Championship team.

He also had a temper with officials, the downside of his incredible passion for the game.


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## crandc (Sep 15, 2004)

Thanks to everyone for your quotes, links and memories.
Last night I was looking through a pile of old Rip City magazines for a couple of articles I wanted. Some of the headlines, I didn't know whether to laugh or cry.
As in...
Derek Anderson is All Heart
Damon Stoudamire Leads by Example
Shawn Kemp: "I'm going to revitalize my career in Portland"

Oh dear.


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## Public Defender (May 5, 2003)

While I wouldn't recommend doing a feature like you're describing without talking to Wallace himself, I think there's at least one aspect of Wallace's "sweet side" that hasn't been discussed: every winter when the Blazers played in Philadelphia, Rasheed would organize and run a coat drive. 

I think it's important to discuss his totally dysfunctional relationship with the media - especially the Portland media - that probably did as much to sour the city's view of our best player as anything. 

Oh, and who can forget his dysfunctional relationship with the referees? Wallace set an NBA record for technical fouls, was perhaps the only player ever tossed from a playoff game for glaring at an official without saying a word, and let's not forget his 8-game (was it 8 or more?) suspension for lunging at a referee in the Rose Garden garage following a game.


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

Prunetang said:


> You probably want to check out a transcript of the interview he did on national tv a couple of years ago while he was still a Blazer. I don't remember who did the intereview....was it John Thompson?...or something like that.....
> Anyways, it was during the phase where Sheed was considered the biggest cancer in basketball and the intereview focused on Sheed's commitments to his family and friends. He also talked about his reactions to fouls and how he feels about that. I remember it being a very candid interview and could be a great source. Anyways, it was aired I do believe during the playoffs after we were eliminated by the Mavs......that at least is my memory of it.
> Prunetang


I'm pretty sure that interview was done and shown during the beginning of the 2003-4 season on TNT.

My favorite memories of Sheed on the Blazers was his team oriented approach on both ends of the court coupled with his overall talent. He had a lot to do witht he excellent ball I enjoyed watching the Blazers play for years. I especially liked to watch him defend the other team's top offensive frontcourt player and seeing him turn his game up in the playoffs.

While I don't like it when any player talks back to officials and becomes animated over a percieved bad call, it's so commonplace throughout the league I've become largely immune to it. This leads to...

My least favorite part of the Sheed years was when the bitter beer faced "fans" of the league started holding him up as all that was/is wrong with the league and sports. I think there is a section of "fans" who just generally love to roll around in their own bitterness and want/need a bad millionaire athlete designated to serve as the lightning rod for them to yell at and distract them from their problems. The late 90's-early 2000's Trailblazer teams were ratings killers for the national media sources of the league, so they fanned the flames of Sheed hating until they ultimately helped run him out of town. Unfortunately for those that like to see good ball, none of the claims being held up by media sourses and detracting fans of better days being ahead now that the supposive cancer was gone came true. Of course Wallace went on to complete a solid Pistons club that may win their 2nd championship this season... he still leads the league in techs (by a wide margin) but the media no longer points to that being a problem. The guy derided for years by journalism giants such as Jason Quick, Canzano, Dwight Jaynes, Peter Vescey, and Chad Ford, is now featured in his 2nd national Nike commercial... the commercial celebrates his firey attitude/play. The bitter beer faced fan contingent is now focused on expanding the misdeeds of Darius Miles and Zach or if they want to go national... Ricky Williams or Terrell Owens... I wish those "fans" would start taping _Days of our Lives_ and leave sports coverage for fans of the game. Unfortunately I feel this build em up to tear 'em down aspect of Sheed's Portland legacy is going to repeat itself again and again with each reworking of the Blazer roster. Boring stuff (IMO) to see every day in the headlines, but whatchagonna do, negativity sells.

STOMP


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## Blazer Ringbearer (Jan 28, 2003)

STOMP said:


> I'm pretty sure that interview was done and shown during the beginning of the 2003-4 season on TNT.
> 
> My favorite memories of Sheed on the Blazers was his team oriented approach on both ends of the court coupled with his overall talent. He had a lot to do witht he excellent ball I enjoyed watching the Blazers play for years. I especially liked to watch him defend the other team's top offensive frontcourt player and seeing him turn his game up in the playoffs.
> 
> ...


Fantastic post. I've never seen is summed up so well...


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## Brian. (Jul 11, 2002)

As a pistons fan I was excited but definitely nervous when he first got here. I obviously heard about all of his problems but knew if the pistons were to take the next step they needed someone as talented as Sheed. I couldn't be happier at this point with what we got. Defensively he is the prefect compliment to Ben down low. Offensively he is very unselfish he looks to get his teammates the ball and his teammates love him. A few negatives which probably all Blazers fans will agree with. He tends to fall in love with the 3 ball at times. He gets his share of techs while they haven't hurt the pistons in an important game yet they very well could. Sheed is a very interesting character to say the least. He doesn't fill up a stat sheet real well. His most valuable contribution to the pistons is guarding the other teams best big so Ben can do what he does best. From his days in Portland you can tell he doesn't excel as being a teams #1 option. He is the prefect compliment to the pistons though.


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## MARIS61 (Apr 28, 2003)

The most intimidating PF in the game.

The mere glint in his eyes dangerous enough to be grounds for ejection.


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## Stevenson (Aug 23, 2003)

STOMP said:


> My least favorite part of the Sheed years was when the bitter beer faced "fans" of the league started holding him up as all that was/is wrong with the league and sports. I think there is a section of "fans" who just generally love to roll around in their own bitterness and want/need a bad millionaire athlete designated to serve as the lightning rod for them to yell at and distract them from their problems. The late 90's-early 2000's Trailblazer teams were ratings killers for the national media sources of the league, so they fanned the flames of Sheed hating until they ultimately helped run him out of town.
> 
> STOMP


Blaming the messenger is not the answer. Journalists didn't make Sheed a jerk, they just reported that he was a jerk. The press didn't make him laugh after losing (remember Pippen getting so mad at that?) The press didn't make him throw towels in a teammate's face (I was at that game with my 8 year old daughter who saw it.) The press didn't make him get the T's or wait for refs after games on loading docks, etc etc etc.

How does thinking he was a jerk make me a "so-called fan"? I am likely a far bigger fan than you are, truth be told. And why does thinking that that sort of behavior is unacceptable make me "bitter" ? I grew up with Jerry West and Wilt and Magic and Kareem. I know how a great athlete should be, and Sheed was in a jerk class by himself.

And by the way, I don't drink beer, and I don't need to dislike Rasheed Wallace to distract me from my own problems (how ridiculous is that idea in reality?) So just about every one of your silly characterizations is wrong. 

Take your name calling and inane stereotyping and keep them to yourself. 

No wonder you like Rasheed.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

Stevenson said:


> Blaming the messenger is not the answer. Journalists didn't make Sheed a jerk, they just reported that he was a jerk.


Why did they report that? 

Who gives a ****?

Rasheed Wallace is a basketball player, not a nanny. There was plenty to report on the successes and failures of the Blazers as a team and Rasheed Wallace as a player, but for whatever reason (and I agree with STOMP that there is a certain segment of the Blazer fan base who takes glee in righteous anger towards some players) they deviated from reporting on that and instead focused on their perception of Rasheed as a person.

He's gone, and suddenly he's not a jerk. Suddenly he's not a cancer. Suddenly he's a champion.

And some people on this board still can't let go that they were focusing on the wrong things when they called him names and longed for his departure.

Ed O.


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## e_blazer1 (Feb 3, 2004)

Against my better judgment:



Ed O said:


> Why did they report that?
> 
> Who gives a ****?


A lot of people, actually. There appear to be two different lines of thought among fans: 

1) The game is all that matters. A player's behavior, particularly behavior away from the game, is irrelevant. Just give us a winning team.

2) The game is important, but fan pride in the team's success is inexorably tied to pride in the players. 

I suspect that people from either viewpoint will never be able to agree that the other opinion is valid...which is why we're still having these discussions long after Rasheed has moved on.



> Rasheed Wallace is a basketball player, not a nanny. There was plenty to report on the successes and failures of the Blazers as a team and Rasheed Wallace as a player, but for whatever reason (and I agree with STOMP that there is a certain segment of the Blazer fan base who takes glee in righteous anger towards some players) they deviated from reporting on that and instead focused on their perception of Rasheed as a person.


Anyone who expects athletes to be saints is going to be severely disappointed by sports. These guys are human and they're going to have times when they behave poorly...just as we all do. However, some players go beyond the occasional meltdown and exhibit behavior that can become a distraction from the ultimate goal of team success. IMO, there were too many times when Rasheed crossed that line. The towel incident, the animosity towards the refs that built into the loading dock confrontation, the continual anger displayed towards the media...all of those things took away from the game and undermined the team's chances for success.



> He's gone, and suddenly he's not a jerk. Suddenly he's not a cancer. Suddenly he's a champion.


I doubt that a change of geography has changed Rasheed. I think that the combination of coach, teammates, success, and maybe even simple maturation of Rasheed as a human being, have made for a better situation for Rasheed in Detroit. How long that combination of factors will remain positive remains to be seen. Personally, I don't have any animosity towards Rasheed. I just wish he could have had the right combination of chemistry here in Portland that would have led to success.



> And some people on this board still can't let go that they were focusing on the wrong things when they called him names and longed for his departure.


And perhaps some people on this board will never be able to see that a player's actions don't take place in a vacuum. A pattern of bad behavior will have ramifications that will impact the team and its chances for success.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Ed O said:


> Why did they report that?
> 
> Who gives a ****?
> 
> ...



Believe it or not, a large portion of the fanbase at Blazer games is little kids....Most, trying to emulate and be just like their favorite player (as I was to Drexler when i was younger)...and when they see their favorite player being an ***, throwing towels in their teammates faces, getting caught for smoking pot and constantly getting ejected from games...it sets a bad example...athletes are humans too and the occasional slip up is alright, but when it happens constantly the media deserves to exploit it and the player deserves the reputation that he has established...I'm not a Rasheed hater, but I don't think that he is the best guy to build a franchise around therefor I think it was a good thing for him to leave town and for both teams to go in seperate directions...


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## RipCity9 (Jan 30, 2004)

This notion that the only people who wanted Sheed out of town were somehow involved in some righteous movement against certain types of NBA players is laughable. On and off the court Rasheed was a series of frustrations here in Portland. I was as big a Sheed fan as any at one point but even I and my rose colored glasses was tired of him by the end.


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## MARIS61 (Apr 28, 2003)

zagsfan20 said:


> Believe it or not, a large portion of the fanbase at Blazer games is little kids....Most, trying to emulate and be just like their favorite player (as I was to Drexler when i was younger)


If I had to choose between Drexler (lazy, not too bright, and completely full of himself and insincere soundbites) or Wallace (humble, a total team player, and not afraid to speak his mind) for a role model for my children, I'd have to opt for Sheed.

But it's a weak parent who can't fill that position themselves.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

e_blazer1 said:


> A lot of people, actually.


I know that SOME people care. But some people care about the Michael Jackson, case, too, and probably let it affect how they think about music and the law.

Some people are more concerned with worshipping celebrities than I am.



> I doubt that a change of geography has changed Rasheed.


NOTHING has changed Rasheed.

He's the same player. The same person.

But without the "messengers" constantly sniping at him, and without a large chunk of the fanbase fed up with him, he's allowed to simply play basketball.



> And perhaps some people on this board will never be able to see that a player's actions don't take place in a vacuum. A pattern of bad behavior will have ramifications that will impact the team and its chances for success.


It will impact the team's chances for success, no doubt. But playing basketball well impacts the team's chances for success, as well.

With Rasheed it was a clear case of his positives outweighing his negatives _when it comes to basketball_. People can complain about the person that they think he is all they want, but they can't with a straight face look at how the Pistons and Blazers have done since the time Rasheed was traded and say that he hasn't positively impacted Detroit since arriving and that the Blazers haven't gone in the tank since he departed.

Ed O.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

zagsfan20 said:


> Believe it or not, a large portion of the fanbase at Blazer games is little kids....Most, trying to emulate and be just like their favorite player (as I was to Drexler when i was younger)...and when they see their favorite player being an ***, throwing towels in their teammates faces, getting caught for smoking pot and constantly getting ejected from games...it sets a bad example...


That's weak. Even ignoring that he rarely got ejected from games and that he threw a single towel in the face of a teammate (after said teammate hit him in the face during a flop), I don't think that Rasheed Wallace as a Blazer adversely impacted many Portland-area youths.

I loved watching Billy Ray play for the Blazers, and I turned out OK. I didn't let the massive NBA drug problems of the 1970's and 1980's mess me up.

When I pretended to be players when I was a kid, I tried to mimic their jump shot or their dribbling style or even they way they jumped. I find it hard to believe that many kids would pretend to get into an off-court altercation with a ref or pretend to get pulled over with Damon Stoudamire on I-5.

Ed O.


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## RipCity9 (Jan 30, 2004)

MARIS61 said:


> If I had to choose between Drexler (lazy, not too bright, and completely full of himself and insincere soundbites) or Wallace (humble, a total team player, and not afraid to speak his mind) for a role model for my children, I'd have to opt for Sheed.


And this thread has now completely lost touch with reality. Good lord man, you can't seriously be comparing Sheed to Drexler and choosing Sheed?! Even Sheed's mother would have trouble swallowing that one.


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## e_blazer1 (Feb 3, 2004)

Ed O said:


> Some people are more concerned with worshipping celebrities than I am.


I'm not into worshipping celebrities either, Ed. When it comes to being a fan of a team, though, I do prefer to root for players that I can respect. 



> NOTHING has changed Rasheed.
> 
> He's the same player. The same person.


Yup. I agree 100%. Same very talented player with the same anger issues.



> But without the "messengers" constantly sniping at him, and without a large chunk of the fanbase fed up with him, he's allowed to simply play basketball.


Everybody loves a winner and Sheed's been basking in the glow of fan and media love associated with the Pistons winning. Let the winning stop, especially let it stop due to the reemergence of "Evil Sheed", and we'll see just how long it takes for the Detroit media and fans to start sniping at Sheed again. Today Sheed had a little tantrum that resulted in a T at a critical juncture in the game. If the Heat win due to a few more of those types of incidents, the Detroit media will start to turn up the heat. I remember reading posts from Memphis fans last season about how great Bonzi was and how wonderful it was that Portland dumped him. Our loss, their gain. I doubt that they feel the same today.




> With Rasheed it was a clear case of his positives outweighing his negatives _when it comes to basketball_. People can complain about the person that they think he is all they want, but they can't with a straight face look at how the Pistons and Blazers have done since the time Rasheed was traded and say that he hasn't positively impacted Detroit since arriving and that the Blazers haven't gone in the tank since he departed.


As I said in my original post, I don't believe you can divorce the effects associated with the behavioral issues from basketball performance. That said, yes, Rasheed was the final piece of the puzzle that Detroit needed to become an elite team. Rasheed is a very gifted athlete. He's also a guy who can fail to control his emotions at critical junctures. So far he's gotten by without any major incidents in Detroit. I wonder how long it will last.


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## e_blazer1 (Feb 3, 2004)

RipCity9 said:


> And this thread has now completely lost touch with reality. Good lord man, you can't seriously be comparing Sheed to Drexler and choosing Sheed?! Even Sheed's mother would have trouble swallowing that one.


Roger's been dead for a long time now. The gray matter begins to decay after 4 minutes without oxygen.


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## Utherhimo (Feb 20, 2005)

its only a matter of time


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

> That's weak. Even ignoring that he rarely got ejected from games and that he threw a single towel in the face of a teammate (after said teammate hit him in the face during a flop), I don't think that Rasheed Wallace as a Blazer adversely impacted many Portland-area youths.


He didn't get ejected that often, but his technical fouls and attitude towards the game could easily be rubbed off on some kids...and when he was in Portland, he was by far the favorite Blazer for most younger kids around town...The towel and the technicals were minor compared to some of his other incidents....and its not like Sabonis isn't the only teammate that he disrespected, ask Ruben Boumtje Boumtje all about that....



> I loved watching Billy Ray play for the Blazers, and I turned out OK. I didn't let the massive NBA drug problems of the 1970's and 1980's mess me up.


thats you, thats not every other kid and I actually agree with you that kids shouldn't look up to athletes as role models but they do. The amount of money they make they should be able to atleast stay out of trouble...



> When I pretended to be players when I was a kid, I tried to mimic their jump shot or their dribbling style or even they way they jumped. I find it hard to believe that many kids would pretend to get into an off-court altercation with a ref or pretend to get pulled over with Damon Stoudamire on I-5.


Same here, but if a kid hears that their favorite NBA player smokes weed that could make a kid probably want to try it, because Rasheed did it...


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

zagsfan20 said:


> He didn't get ejected that often, but his technical fouls and attitude towards the game could easily be rubbed off on some kids...and when he was in Portland, he was by far the favorite Blazer for most younger kids around town...The towel and the technicals were minor compared to some of his other incidents....and its not like Sabonis isn't the only teammate that he disrespected, ask Ruben Boumtje Boumtje all about that....


Even ASSUMING that the RBB incident would be considered a negative (I think that it's far more likely merely a case of horseplay): why did kids hear about it?

Because of the Oregonian.

If the Oregonian is worried (as you are) about the negative impact that Rasheed hitting RBB in the gonads with a full-court toss is going to have on the children of Portland: why report it?

It certainly wasn't going to help heal any physical or emotional damage done to RBB. All it can do (in addition to adversely affecting young people) was give fuel to the fire of people that already had it in their mind that Rasheed was a bad guy.

This gets back to the original "don't shoot the messenger" point I disagree with.

Ed O.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

That's part of being in the spotlight and making millions of dollars, when you slip up its going to be reported.....and if you slip up on occasion, like Rasheed did he is going to get portrayed by the media as a troublemaker and a bad guy....I don't feel that anything that happened to Rasheed in Portland was unfair....He's a jerk and he deserved to be treated like a jerk...


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

zagsfan20 said:


> That's part of being in the spotlight and making millions of dollars, when you slip up its going to be reported.....and if you slip up on occasion, like Rasheed did he is going to get portrayed by the media as a troublemaker and a bad guy....I don't feel that anything that happened to Rasheed in Portland was unfair....He's a jerk and he deserved to be treated like a jerk...


Is he paid millions of dollars to play basketball or to be a nice guy?

Do teams win with players who can play basketball or that are nice guys?

Do fans root for teams that win or for teams full of players who are nice guys?

Rasheed very well might be a jerk... I don't know and don't care. He also almost certainly could have been (and could be today) a better basketball player if he did things differently (lifting weights, etc.)... but I don't really care abou that, either, because he IS a good basketball player and if fans and teams are willing to give up on players because they could be nicer guys or because they could be better players, then those teams and fans better accept losing as the almost invariable outcome.

And while the prospect of kids looking up to players that are jerks might be a bit scary to some, is it better for them to look up to a team that's constantly losing? Or to give up interest in looking up to local NBA players altogether?

Ed O.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

> Is he paid millions of dollars to play basketball or to be a nice guy?


With the size of an NBA players contract they should be able to do both...you think playing basketball alone is worth $13 mil a year?...If your making that much, you should earn it and be a good citizen at the same time.....I don't think that is too much to ask and a lot of other players understand that and Rasheed has finally started to understand that in Detroit...



> Do teams win with players who can play basketball or that are nice guys?


Rasheed hasn't got into any trouble the past two years and he has won...if you prefer a good team with thugs and criminals over a good team with good classy players thats your prerogative....



> Do fans root for teams that win or for teams full of players who are nice guys?


Considering that Bonzi, Rasheed and Qyntel were basically ran out of town by the fans who were fed up with them and the early 90's Blazers left lasting memories of what good guys they were while still playing at a near championship level. I would say that fans root for teams full of players with good guys than a team with punks and potheads....



> if fans and teams are willing to give up on players because they could be nicer guys or because they could be better players, then those teams and fans better accept losing as the almost invariable outcome.


look at San Antonio and tell me who is a law breaker on that team or Phoenix or Miami......teams can actually win with classy players who aren't troublemakers.....

and I'm pretty sure that the fans aren't proud of the stigma that the rest of the league has towards the Blazer franchise due to players like Rasheed, Bonzi and all the other knuckleheads that we had...



> And while the prospect of kids looking up to players that are jerks might be a bit scary to some, is it better for them to look up to a team that's constantly losing? Or to give up interest in looking up to local NBA players altogether?


Sebastian Telfair is the most young Blazers fans favorite Blazers...He was on a losing team and the young fans kept interest...I'm getting the impression that you think that teams can only win with players that get into trouble...IMO that is far from the truth...


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

zagsfan20 said:


> With the size of an NBA players contract they should be able to do both...you think playing basketball alone is worth $13 mil a year?


Yes. Absolutely. The owners are willing to pay that much, so it's worth that much.



> ...If your making that much, you should earn it and be a good citizen at the same time.....I don't think that is too much to ask and a lot of other players understand that and Rasheed has finally started to understand that in Detroit...


You seem to think Rasheed has changed. I reject that. I think he's just the same, but many people perceive him differently (a) because the team won the title, and (b) because the press and fans in Detroit have different expectations of players than in Portland.



> Rasheed hasn't got into any trouble the past two years and he has won...if you prefer a good team with thugs and criminals over a good team with good classy players thats your prerogative....


I prefer a good team. Period.

Rasheed is still racking up a lot of technical fouls, and he didn't get into trouble all that often in Portland (that the RBB/groin shot incident gets mentioned at all is a great bit of evidence of that). That he's been able to avoid "trouble" in Detroit is not a surprise. He doesn't have Quick and Canzano taking as many shots on him now.



> Considering that Bonzi, Rasheed and Qyntel were basically ran out of town by the fans who were fed up with them and the early 90's Blazers left lasting memories of what good guys they were while still playing at a near championship level. I would say that fans root for teams full of players with good guys than a team with punks and potheads....


People in Germany also helped bring Hitler into power. Does that mean that they preferred anti-Semite fascism to hyperinflation?

The evidence, in Portland and elsewhere, is clear: fans pay attention to winning teams. Whether those players use pot or not, if a team's winning the fans will show up and pay their money.



> look at San Antonio and tell me who is a law breaker on that team or Phoenix or Miami......teams can actually win with classy players who aren't troublemakers.....


Your logic is terrible. Nobody's saying that winning happens BECAUSE of lack of good guys. Winning happens because of good players, and often in spite of the presence of "bad" guys.



> I'm getting the impression that you think that teams can only win with players that get into trouble...IMO that is far from the truth...


You're all mixed up if that's what you think I'm saying.

Ed O.


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## pumpkinheadgiant (Jan 8, 2004)

...meanwhile, back on topic...

I remember that my respect for Rasheed increased immensely (not that I was in any way a "hater", but I wasn't necessarily a big "fan" either) when I read about how he adopted the child of an ex-girlfriend. Apparently she wasn't able to provide for him, and had stability issues, and so Rasheed extended his conception of family to embrace this kid.

Talking about family values is one thing. Seeing an opportunity and a need and putting your foot forward is entirely another.

Go Sheed!


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## e_blazer1 (Feb 3, 2004)

pumpkinheadgiant said:


> ...meanwhile, back on topic...
> 
> I remember that my respect for Rasheed increased immensely (not that I was in any way a "hater", but I wasn't necessarily a big "fan" either) when I read about how he adopted the child of an ex-girlfriend. Apparently she wasn't able to provide for him, and had stability issues, and so Rasheed extended his conception of family to embrace this kid.
> 
> ...


Good post. Whatever flaws Sheed may have, I always respected the way he seemed to be devoted to his family.


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

Stevenson said:


> Blaming the messenger is not the answer.


sort of funny that you're telling me about whats the answer when you didn't understand the thread starters question. Crandc asked us to share our positive and negative reflections of Rasheed's career in Portland. There is no right or wrong here, only reflections and opinions. That you may hold different opinion(s) then I do doesn't make mine any less valid.

I do happen to think that the O is a gossipy rag with a clear agenda to trash the Blazers. Just yesterday I was thumbing through the sports letters to the editor. All 8 (or so) of the letters they ran were in response to Canzano's latest article blasting management for rooting out/firing his sources within the organization... all 8 were in full support of JC and took further shots at the team. Do you think thats an accurate reflection of the letters they recieved? I don't. I think it's the O adopting JC's oft repeated mantra... "I'm not a reporter, I'm a collumnist" to justify their spinning. They're not a news source, they're just pushing the reader's buttons. 



> How does thinking he was a jerk make me a "so-called fan"? I am likely a far bigger fan than you are, truth be told. And why does thinking that that sort of behavior is unacceptable make me "bitter" ?
> 
> And by the way, I don't drink beer, and I don't need to dislike Rasheed Wallace to distract me from my own problems (how ridiculous is that idea in reality?) So just about every one of your silly characterizations is wrong.
> 
> ...


Maybe you were really tired or something when you misread my post and became offended. I didn't call you a "so called fan," nor did I say everyone who doesn't like Wallace is a bitter beer face. I said I believe there is a faction of fans who seem to live to be disgruntled. I think it's pretty obvious that that faction doesn't include every sports fan who doesn't like Rasheed. Try another read through and I bet you'll find I wasn't painting with as broad a brush as you first thought.

STOMP


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

> Yes. Absolutely. The owners are willing to pay that much, so it's worth that much.


You have an illogical thought pattern if thats the case, I don't know how anyone can justify the amount of money athletes make and think that they should have free reign to act however they want...Paul Allen realized that Rasheed and Bonzi were having a negative effect on the team and let them go elsewhere. Allowing a player to have free reign to act like an *** is pretty silly...



> You seem to think Rasheed has changed. I reject that. I think he's just the same, but many people perceive him differently (a) because the team won the title, and (b) because the press and fans in Detroit have different expectations of players than in Portland.


I'm sure if he got caught smoking pot on one of Detroit's highways after a game or if he chased down referees in the loading dock Detroit fans would feel the same way(but then again Detroit fans are a different breed)...Rasheed brought his relationship with the press and fans in Portland upon himself, I don't have any symapthy for that, you act like a jerk you get treated like a jerk...



> Rasheed is still racking up a lot of technical fouls, and he didn't get into trouble all that often in Portland (that the RBB/groin shot incident gets mentioned at all is a great bit of evidence of that). That he's been able to avoid "trouble" in Detroit is not a surprise. He doesn't have Quick and Canzano taking as many shots on him now.


He's not breaking the league record for technicals in Detroit...

Yep Quick and Canzano are the ones who smoked the weed, broke the league record in technicals and threw towels and balls at his own teammates...They reported what happened thats their job...



> The evidence, in Portland and elsewhere, is clear: fans pay attention to winning teams. Whether those players use pot or not, if a team's winning the fans will show up and pay their money.


yes, but they also expect to see quality people playing for their city and when people get into trouble like they did it looks bad on the city....My family in other parts of the U.S. now have this stigma that the Blazers are troublemakers even though they're not and part of that has to do with Rasheed....

Do you think everyone here just picked on Rasheed?



> Your logic is terrible. Nobody's saying that winning happens BECAUSE of lack of good guys. Winning happens because of good players, and often in spite of the presence of "bad" guys


You're right championships are won by good players, but when myself and other fans are watching our hometeam play I think we expect the players to act with some kind of dignity...


here is a good example of the classy Rasheed.....LINK


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## DrewFix (Feb 9, 2004)

zagsfan20 said:


> You have an illogical thought pattern if thats the case, I don't know how anyone can justify the amount of money athletes make and think that they should have free reign to act however they want...Paul Allen realized that Rasheed and Bonzi were having a negative effect on the team and let them go elsewhere. Allowing a player to have free reign to act like an *** is pretty silly...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


great example!


> The brawl started seconds after Rasheed Wallace made a buzzer-beating jump shot to give Portland a 113-111 road victory.





> Later, as the Blazers' bus tried to leave the arena, Mills parked his car in front of it, got out with several friends and challenged the Blazers. The bus wasn't able to leave until Oakland police arrived to provide an escort.





> The situation was made worse by fans throwing wads of gum and plastic beer bottles at the Blazers as they headed for the locker room. One man was handcuffed and subdued by four security officers. He threw gum at Wallace, sparking another confrontation with several Blazers.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

zagsfan20 said:


> You have an illogical thought pattern if thats the case, I don't know how anyone can justify the amount of money athletes make and think that they should have free reign to act however they want.


Why should I or anyone else have to justify it?

Rasheed Wallace and Damon Stoudamire were paid lots of money to _play basketball_. They were punished when they broke rules, as well they should have been, but whether they were "worth" the money they were paid doesn't really matter.

Each of us value what we and others do differently, so it's not about an "illogical thought pattern".

Ed O.


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## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

Zagsfan please don't take this as a slam, but you'll learn this as you get older. You are worth what someone will pay you. It's really that simple. If your boss thinks you are worth a certain amount, then you are. if you think Pro Athletes are overpaid then don't pay to watch them, or buy the products they endorse, or watch them on tv. 


it's like hockey. the players thought they were worth more than they really were. The owners said no and they lost a season. When they return their salaries will be lower. Why???? Because ratings aren't good, owners make more money when they don't play.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

> if you think Pro Athletes are overpaid then don't pay to watch them, or buy the products they endorse, or watch them on tv.


I don't think professional athletes are overpaid....A lot of them deserve the money they make and also stay out of trouble like they should....Portland fans are smart enough to realize that and a lot of them have throw a big stink when their hometown teams players get into trouble...I'm one of them, I think if a player is playing in the NBA they better be acting like civilized people and not getting into trouble...


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## crandc (Sep 15, 2004)

Well, after all that....
the Web site I wrote the article for said they liked the writing but it is not suitable for their site. They suggested I pitch it elsewhere but I have no idea who accepts unsolicited manuscripts.
I'm rather annoyed because I frankly worked pretty damn hard on it and could have spent the time doing other things. Any ideas who may want an in-depth article on Sheed?
If anyone wants to take a look at it, PM with your email and I'll send it.


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