# 76ers @ Raptors, Dec. 18th



## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

<center>
















*Philadelphia 76ers* (12-12) @ *Toronto Raptors* (4-19)
December 18th, 2005, 1:00 PM EST
Rogers SportsNet Ontario





































*Allen Iverson, Andre Iguodala, Kyle Korver, Chris Webber, Samuel Dalembert*

<IMG WIDTH=100 HEIGHT=150 BORDER=0 ALT="CALDERON, JOSE" TITLE="CALDERON, JOSE" SRC="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v129/speedythief/raptors/jcalderon0.jpg">







<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v129/speedythief/raptors/mpeterson0.jpg" alt="Image hosted by Photobucket.com"> <IMG WIDTH=100 HEIGHT=150 BORDER=0 ALT="BOSH, CHRIS" TITLE="BOSH, CHRIS" SRC="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v129/speedythief/raptors/cbosh0.jpg"> <img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v129/speedythief/raptors/raraujo0.jpg" alt="Image hosted by Photobucket.com"> 
*Jose Calderon, Mike James, Morris Peterson, Chris Bosh, Rafael Araujo*</center>


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## aizn (Jun 19, 2005)

another loss, 4-20!!


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## billfindlay10 (Jan 24, 2003)

C Web had a great game last time out vs. the Raps.... If we can limit him today, we have a chance. AI will get his...no stopping that...but does he want to chase Jose around...or keep James out of the lane? Mo-Pete needs to out play Korver...Joey and Charlie need to play tough off of the bench!


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## shookem (Nov 1, 2005)

Sweet an afternoon game! I luv the 1 pm starts, just roll outta bed and some ball is on.


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## AirJordan™ (Nov 21, 2005)

Yeah. I agree with ya man. 1 PM ET games are awesome. Im gonna watch this game...then im gonna head to the mall.

Lets Go Raptors.......we can win this one :clap: :clap: .......or maybe not, well..... Lets Go Raptors!


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## shapeshifter (Jun 13, 2005)

Jose has been placed on the inactive list with a bruised heel. Good news- Eric will is back in the line up.


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## adhir1 (Dec 28, 2004)

well there is no Jose today, he is out with a bruised heel, so we will really see how Jose impacts this team, how many touches bosh gets, and how the offense works without him. but however i think we are bound for a win, and i thinktoday will be the day.


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## Big Dub (Nov 20, 2005)

Joey is goin to have a big game iam lookin for 16/5


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

4-2 Toronto. 

Webber dishing it to Korver.

4-4

Go Hoff. Man I hope he can get something going and the crowd recognizes it. One weakas foul already. Two Rebounds so far I think.

Big Dunk from Bosh.


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## AirJordan™ (Nov 21, 2005)

76ers are struggling early. Raps are playing really well.
Hopefully the early start will get the Raptors a second home win.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

Good start from the Raps. 

11-4 for the Raps.

AI to the line.


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## AirJordan™ (Nov 21, 2005)

Derrick Martin is checking in for Mike James. 11-7 Toronto with 5:58 left in the 1st Quarter.
Great hustle by Hoffa to keep the ball in play.


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## AirJordan™ (Nov 21, 2005)

76ers are comming back. Turnovers are killing the Raptors, once again.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

Hoffa with 5 boards in the first. Mitch is giving him extra time.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

Hoffa back in in the second. Cool...


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## Pnack (Aug 23, 2005)

hey speedy whose that chick in your avatar?


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## nwt (Apr 24, 2005)

The mop girl of course 
(I think)


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## AirJordan™ (Nov 21, 2005)

*-Halftime Stats-*

Philadelphia 76ers - 52
Toronto Raptors - 48

FG%:
Raptors: .395
76ers: .435

*Raptors:*
J. Graham - 12 mins, 3 rebs, 1 assist
C. Bosh - 18 mins, 2 rebs, 1 block, 15 pts
R. Araujo - 15 mins, 6 rebs, 1 steal
M. Peterson - 24 mins, 5 rebs, 3 assists, 2 steals, 11 pts
M. James - 9 mins, 3 rebs, 2 assists, 3 pts
J. Rose - 10 mins, 1 reb, 1 block, 2 pts
D. Martin - 14 mins, 1 assist, 1 steal, 4 pts
C. Villanueva - 14 mins, 5 rebs, 1 assist, 3 blocks, 13 pts

*76ers:*
K. Korver - 17 mins, 6 rebs, 4 assists, 17 pts
C. Webber - 19 mins, 5 rebs, 3 assists, 2 steals, 6 pts
S. Dalembert - 11 mins, 5 rebs, 1 assist, 1 block
A. Iguodala - 20 mins, 3 rebs, 3 assists, 3 steals, 11 pts
A. Iverson - 24 mins, 1 block, 14 pts
J. Salmons - 8 mins, 1 assist
S. Randolph - 9 mins, 2 rebs, 1 assist, 1 block
M. Barnes - 4 mins, 3 rebs, 1 assist, 4 pts


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

we get the ball stole of us alot dont we lol


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## nwt (Apr 24, 2005)

Iguodala is killing us


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## AirJordan™ (Nov 21, 2005)

Raptors lose again at home, book it.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

Iggy have a great game against us of course.

Boys have dug themselves a hole.


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## TRON (Feb 29, 2004)

Just tuned in

Eric Williams getting some showcase burn??

Philly Defense lookng great, Toronto Defense looking poor and confused as always

teams seem to be giving Bosh less and less opportunity to work on offense, I'd like to see if he can get used to all the extra attention


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## kindred (Dec 26, 2004)

only 9 assists throughout almost 3 quarters, and shooting at .321.......guess we really miss calderon........


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## TRON (Feb 29, 2004)

Have we even scored this quarter ???

yep, 4 points on 1/16 in 10 mins

Worst thing is, did Sam even call a timeout yet to talk about it, so something?????


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## TRON (Feb 29, 2004)

Bosh will need to be have good games against good defenders like Dalambert and Chandler before he becomes that great player we all know he can be.


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## Divine Spammer (Jul 11, 2005)

Too many home games. 
Home games have become a definite L. 
I scarcely check out the Box Score.


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## TRON (Feb 29, 2004)

This is embarrassing

I've thought about going to a game this year, but I don't know how much enjoyment I can get out of this. I'd have to be completely drunk out of my mind to watch a whole game of this :biggrin:


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## TRON (Feb 29, 2004)

oh man, can we get this season over any sooner

and we have like another 4+ months of this !!!!!!!!!

I'd love to critique this game, but all I could think of is complete and total domination


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## TRON (Feb 29, 2004)

I didn't watch the close first half, but what caused the masacre that was the second half

1. Was it just a good team stepping up and putting the Raptors in thier place?

2. was Sam yet again outcoached by a more experienced, brighter coach?

3. Defensive execution for Philly vs. Defensive deficiencies for Toronto?

I'd say all little bit of each


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## shookem (Nov 1, 2005)

"Worst game ever!"











Korver, Igoudala and Dalembert ran over the Raps today, it was pathetic.

As usual the rookies looked ok, Chris looked good and everyone else sucked. This team is sooo bad.


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## Thievery Corporation (Jul 2, 2005)

Chris got killed in the 2nd half just like the rest of the team.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

Crunch.

Too bad. We had a good first half. A few guys on the Sixers had a hot hand and if it wasn't for that we might've had the lead going into the third.

Atrocious offensive effort in the third lead to an unenthusiastic defensive effort for the rest of the game. Ballhandling, passing, and turnovers a major factor.

Araujo with a nice game in limited minutes. Blew an alley-oop, mostly due to the fact he can't jump over a book of matches, but otherwise played good defense, got rebounds, and tried to make himself useful on the offensive end. Fans were patient with him--I think if he doesn't shoot, nobody cares enough to boo him, but that's not really something we want to pursue. He has to be a part of our offense no matter how small.


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

Why the hell was Martin taking all those crazy shots? Does he not realize that he is the number 5 option on our team? As the third quarter came to an end, we had 15 seconds to setup and get a play going. Instead, Martin decided to just dribble it out until there were two seconds left then take an off-balance runner with a guy in his face. 
Jalen Rose, again didn't play in the 2nd half. I would much rather see him playing the point instead of Martin. And that says a lot.


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

"Can I borrow a feeling?"


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## MonsterBosh (Feb 9, 2005)

shookem said:


> "Worst game ever!
> 
> Korver, Igoudala and Dalembert ran over the Raps today, it was pathetic.
> 
> As usual the rookies looked ok, Chris looked good and everyone else sucked. This team is sooo bad.


Nothing unexpected is it ...???

Did you think that a team in the NBA that puts 3 rookies on the floor at the same time will win anything? We are not even half through the season and the Raptors have collapsed as a team ... most likely because they know they are not good enough to be on the floor with most of the other teams.

The current state of the Raptors is not the fault of the players or the coach .. because they only have a limited amount of time to plan and practice. The failure rests with the owners and executive management (excluding Babcock) who allowed the Raptors to deteriorate to this abysmal level.

You just can't expect a team of rookies, new players and washed up veterans to somehow magically start winning games ... let alone improve because they will collapse before they can jell into anything resembling a basketball team in the toughest league in the world.

There is no easy solution to resolving the Raptor's problems ... and understand that all of the other teams are jelling and getting better while the Raptors deteriorate ... as expected. Bosh must be very troubled by his situation on this team because he cannot improve and may in fact get worse as the season progresses. This will affect his earning potential playing on a team where he cannot show his abilities to the max .. and earn the max.

So those faithful Raptor fans on this fine forum should just realize that the Raptors are a team in dire straits and headed to a disasterous season with not many more wins ... because any NBA team that loses to the demoralized Raptors would not only be shamed but also be castigated by their own fans.

As for why the Raptors cannot seem to be able to win at home .... well that could be because the players have given up on Toronto and are playing their best in other cities to look good if they are traded off. Wouldn't you play your butt off in Boston or Chicago or LA if you thought you could be traded there???

Don't forget that the NBA is a business where players make million$$$$$$$ .... and players will do anything to survive.


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## AirJordan™ (Nov 21, 2005)

I watched this game till the 3rd Quarter. It seems like every game the Raptors play, they start strong, but then they start to collapse in the late 3rd/early 4th quarters.
The Raps are bound for a win, I think they can pull it off against Orlando tomorrow.

Lets Go Raptors.


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

MonsterBosh said:


> Nothing unexpected is it ...???
> 
> As for why the Raptors cannot seem to be able to win at home .... well that could be because the players have given up on Toronto and are playing their best in other cities to look good if they are traded off. Wouldn't you play your butt off in Boston or Chicago or LA if you thought you could be traded there???
> 
> Don't forget that the NBA is a business where players make million$$$$$$$ .... and players will do anything to survive.


Ever think that maybe it's because there is more pressure playing at home, infront of their own fans? No? I didn't think so. 

What do you expect the Raptors to do? Play Loren Woods, Chris Bosh, Eric Williams, Jalen Rose, and Mike James all game? How many more wins will they get that way? In the long run, giving all these rookies playing time will benefit those players and the Raptors in a huge way.

No one is expecting this team to win a lot of ball games, but we at least want to see them battle out there. Unfortunately tonight's second half was very ugly, and the Raptors constantly gave up the ball too easily on the offensive end, and didn't run back for their defensive assignments. That's one of the main reasons why people are angry, not only because they didn't win the game, but because of their lack of effort during that long period of time.


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## undefined_playa (Oct 23, 2005)

Is anyone else fed up with Sam keeping Derrick Martin on? THE GUY CAN'T PLAY!!!!! He takes the worst shots i've ever seen on a raptor squad...honestly most of us here could help the raps out more than he does. No joke.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

undefined_playa said:


> Is anyone else fed up with Sam keeping Derrick Martin on? THE GUY CAN'T PLAY!!!!! He takes the worst shots i've ever seen on a raptor squad...honestly most of us here could help the raps out more than he does. No joke.


With Jose injured and Jalen playing horrible I don't know what other options we have. What other options do we have?


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

undefined_playa said:


> Is anyone else fed up with Sam keeping Derrick Martin on? THE GUY CAN'T PLAY!!!!! He takes the worst shots i've ever seen on a raptor squad...honestly most of us here could help the raps out more than he does. No joke.


Yes, I made a post about it not too long ago. I'd much rather see Jalen Rose on the floor instead of him. The only reason I can think of why Sam would opt for Martin instead of Rose is probably because he believes that Martin would be more reluctant to give the ball up to Bosh. Either way, Rose doesn't deserve this. He needs to be getting some more playing time. You can't just minimize his role on the team this significantly, and expect him to produce out there. Today would have been a great day to see Jalen bounce back, since Jose was ruled out with an injury. Sam needs to stick Martin at the end of the bench, and start giving those minutes to Jalen.


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## TRON (Feb 29, 2004)

"Worst game ever"
"Can I borrow a feeling"

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: 

post game comments should from now on be limited to Simpsons quotes!


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## MonsterBosh (Feb 9, 2005)

Turkish Delight said:


> Ever think that maybe it's because there is more pressure playing at home, infront of their own fans? No? I didn't think so.
> 
> What do you expect the Raptors to do? Play Loren Woods, Chris Bosh, Eric Williams, Jalen Rose, and Mike James all game? How many more wins will they get that way? In the long run, giving all these rookies playing time will benefit those players and the Raptors in a huge way.
> 
> No one is expecting this team to win a lot of ball games, but we at least want to see them battle out there. Unfortunately tonight's second half was very ugly, and the Raptors constantly gave up the ball too easily on the offensive end, and didn't run back for their defensive assignments. That's one of the main reasons why people are angry, not only because they didn't win the game, but because of their lack of effort during that long period of time.


You could be right with your observation that the Raptors may be collapsing because the pressure is too great playing in front of their own fans. It could be a mental thing that gets into each player's head and they are trying to over-achieve causing them to blow up as the game progresses.

As for the long run, it may benefit the rookies but will it be acceptable to the paying fans asking them to watch a work in progress while the rookies get their on the job training ... and messing up like high school players do???

Of course another reason for the Raptor's collapsing in games is because the opposition are so much better and they stop the Raptor players with their defence. Good defence breeds good offence. If your defence breaks down and you try to play catchup on offence you place great stress on yourself .. and it usually doesn't work. Playing good defence requires good teamwork ... while anybody can take shots on offence playing as an individual ... ask Martin.

In today's game, the Sixers probably came out with a better game plan for the second half ... while the Raptor's just gave up on defence because they are not a team and don't have the smarts to play team defence. I think you have to question the player's commitment to each other and the team after today's debacle.

But realistically, the Raptors are not a NBA quality team ... and they would have trouble winning against the second string of any other NBA team ... after looking at today's performance or lack thereof....

What to do ??? ... I have no answers other than continuing on and looking for international talent that will see the Toronto Raptors as a good entry point into the NBA. I don't really want to watch rookies learning on the job and then fantacizing in hope that they will magically evolve into superstars .... won't happen because they will be destroyed by all the other teams who will feast off them ..... !


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## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

thats rough


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

Painful, demoralizing, frustrating beat down at home in front of a big crowd. Had a chance to open up a big lead in the first quarter, but didn't, and it was all downhill from there.

How important is Jose Calderon? Without him our bench had nothing to offer after Charlie. No energy, no firepower, nothing. That pick up this summer was critical. Still would have been nice to keep Omar Cook around as our third PG.

Joey was big in garbage time. Where were the plays for him earlier? Villy invisible other than the 2nd Q. And why can't he finish over Korver and Randolph inside? Very weak inside.

MoP. I said trade him after that few game hot streak and sure enough he is back to the old MoP again.

We need a trade badly.

Strange to hear Iggy say that he never worked out for the Raps. Only the top 7 teams. And he had the guarantee from Philly at 9. He didn't want to come here I guess. How come nobody picked up on that story? Another ******* move by Raptors PR letting the whole Iggy draft be such a sore spot when they could have made this public.


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

On the plus side, we're 4-20 now. hehehe

I didn't watch the game, but from the looks of it, it was pretty sorry. We BETTER win tomolo though.


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## aizn (Jun 19, 2005)

yea, i didnt watch the game either. thank goodness


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## foul_balls (Jun 25, 2004)

Saw bits of the game today. How is it our defense it this much worse than last year? (yeah, we sucked last year, but there is still a big difference comparatively)

Mike James is an upgrade over Rafer defensively, and we lost Donyell for Charlie. It doesn't make sense that we are THAT much more horrible. 

Watching Darrick Martin play today made me long for Milt as our 3rd PG.


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## adhir1 (Dec 28, 2004)

did i read the box score properly???? did hoffa actually get 27 minutes???????


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

adhir1 said:


> did i read the box score properly???? did hoffa actually get 27 minutes???????


 You know you lost by 27 points when...


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## shookem (Nov 1, 2005)

27 mins and he only got three fouls, I think it's safe to say the hoff era is here.


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

Technically 28 actually.


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## shookem (Nov 1, 2005)

Budweiser_Boy said:


> Technically 28 actually.


the stat that I love is hoff getting two offensive boards, yet no points and no assists.


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

shookem said:


> the stat that I love is hoff getting two offensive boards, yet no points and no assists.


 What happened with those? Sorry I didn't see the game.


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## shookem (Nov 1, 2005)

Budweiser_Boy said:


> What happened with those? Sorry I didn't see the game.


someone just took the ball outta his hands.


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## AirBonner (May 28, 2005)

I went to the game and it was horrendous. Hoffa actually played pretty well ... was doing well blocking out and getting rebounds. He even was throwing picks inside to give bosh easy baskets. He did miss a couple easy looks but so did everyone else on the team.

The worst part of this game was the realization that the raptors are much more than just a top lottery pick away from even being decent. Bosh was being consistently doubled and tripled and they couldn' come up with a solution for it but the raptors lost that game as soon as mike james got 2 fouls in the first qtr. 

They really could have used Calderone yesterday ... their passing and ball movement was just terrible .. their entire offensive sets where off.


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## MonsterBosh (Feb 9, 2005)

When a basketball team knows it's going to lose big, they seem to slow down and dumb down ... ever notice that ...??!!!


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

Dalembert blocked his shot on one. Not sure about the other. Probably just passed it out. It may have been the play when he saved the ball going out of bounds to MoP who was lying on the ground. Not sure if that was a rebound.

Bosh got blocked by Dally as well, he's one of the best in the league.


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## MonsterBosh (Feb 9, 2005)

lucky777s said:


> Dalembert blocked his shot on one. Not sure about the other. Probably just passed it out. It may have been the play when he saved the ball going out of bounds to MoP who was lying on the ground. Not sure if that was a rebound.
> 
> Bosh got blocked by Dally as well, he's one of the best in the league.


Bosh does get blocked when he tries to elevate after driving to the basket. He gets very low for a big man to make his drives .. which lowers his body Center of Gravity, but he has to really flex his knees and hip joints to get so low. From this position he sometimes has difficulty elevating and just stretches towards the basket with the ball .... allowing for blocked shots. He has bulked up his upper body, and now he has to work on his explosive leg strength which is a multi-year project if it is not stopped by knee injury.

Bosh can be blocked when he pivots quickly and tries to jump shoot. Normally he seems to fade away on his jump shot without need for extra elevation. He is sneaky fast in his arms to launch a shot and has coordinated his foot and hand actions. Bosh has a lot of potential for improvement and that is attractive to other teams who may be better at developing him than the Raptors.


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