# Ricky Davis should be an All-Star



## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

*Ricky Davis should be an All-Star/Pau Gasol isn't a Top 20 Player*

I'm serious, Rick Davis is one of the best players I've ever seen. He's currently 7th in the league in scoring, and was the league's leading scorer in December. The guy is averaging 23.1ppg 4.4rpg and 4.4apg. He is clearly the total package, he is a thunderous dunker and shoots a stunning 44% from behind the three-point arc.

His team may be the worst in the league, but don't ignore the fact that Ricky Davis is becoming a superstar. He is BY FAR the NBA's most improved player. I honestly think he should start at SF for the East. Carter is injured, and all the other star Forwards in the East are Power Forwards (Tracy McGrady is classified as a SG on the All-Star Ballot, and I think he deserves to start more than Grant Hill).

Thoughts on Ricky Davis?


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

Reminds me a lot of J.R. Rider. A really good explosive scorer, but not a real complete player and has somewhat of an attitude problem.

Also seems really up and down. His listed height of 6'7" seems quite generous also.

IMO he will continue to be a good 20-23 ppg scorer for his career, but never on the superstar level.


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## Chops (May 30, 2002)

He doesn't deserve to be an all-star. Part of being an all-star is leading your team. Right now, his team has the worst record in the league.


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## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>KC</b>!
> He doesn't deserve to be an all-star. Part of being an all-star is leading your team. Right now, his team has the worst record in the league.


I don't know.. if your a "star" does it matter what your team's record is??


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

So? He is still a FANTASTIC player. He's fun to watch, he scores all the time and if he had some more experienced guys...the team would be much better.


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## Chops (May 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>HAWK23</b>!
> 
> 
> I don't know.. if your a "star" does it matter what your team's record is??


Uhh...yes. You aren't a real star if your team is 6-24.


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## Chops (May 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> So? He is still a FANTASTIC player. He's fun to watch, he scores all the time and if he had some more experienced guys...the team would be much better.


So, he's not an all-star.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>HAWK23</b>!
> 
> 
> I don't know.. if your a "star" does it matter what your team's record is??


No, it doesn't.


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## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>KC</b>!
> 
> 
> Uhh...yes. You aren't a real star if your team is 6-24.


you can be a real star on a crappy team


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>KC</b>!
> 
> 
> So, he's not an all-star.


Uh, maybe you haven't noticed, but the voting isn't finished.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>HAWK23</b>!
> 
> 
> you can be a real star on a crappy team


Exactly.


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## Chops (May 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>HAWK23</b>!
> 
> 
> you can be a real star on a crappy team


Not really. Name a guy who has made the all-star team on a crappy team. And if a guy like Ricky Davis starts being called a "star" then so is Jalen Rose and so is Jason Terry, and so is Ron Artest.


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## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>HAWK23</b>!
> 
> 
> you can be a real star on a crappy team


and if you want an example then:

Ricky Davis on the 2002 Cavs


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

It matter who the fans wanna see...

But I don't get how a total package is 23.1ppg 4.4rpg and 4.4apg.

I do wanna see him in the AS game tough, he is really explosive.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>KC</b>!
> 
> 
> Uhh...yes. You aren't a real star if your team is 6-24.


LMAO at this post.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>KC</b>!
> Not really. Name a guy who has made the all-star team on a crappy team.


Elton Brand, last year the Clippers didn't make the Playoffs, and failed to win 40 games.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

But there are other guys doing just as well on teams with better records. Those guys will get the nod before Davis.


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## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>KC</b>!
> 
> 
> Not really. Name a guy who has made the all-star team on a crappy team. And if a guy like Ricky Davis starts being called a "star" then so is Jalen Rose and so is Jason Terry, and so is Ron Artest.


I think those 3 are stars... Artest is a defensive star, rose is a star, and Terry is not even the best on his team though, I would give it to glenn robinson or Shareef before I give Terry the title of Star.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>aquaitious</b>!
> But I don't get how a total package is 23.1ppg 4.4rpg and 4.4apg.


Total Package = Inside and Out


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## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> 
> 
> Total Package = Inside and Out


He shoots, drives, dunks, makes some 3's, and excites the crowd, what more do you want?


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Dee Bo</b>!
> But there are other guys doing just as well on teams with better records. Those guys will get the nod before Davis.


In the East there are SFs doing as well as Davis? 

Glenn Robinson is doing well, but I don't think he's having as good as a season as Davis.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>HAWK23</b>!
> 
> 
> I think those 3 are stars... Artest is a defensive star, rose is a star, and Terry is not even the best on his team though, I would give it to glenn robinson or Shareef before I give Terry the title of Star.


Rose and Terry are not stars. Scorers, yes. Not stars.

Artest is a "defensive" star, but not a star.


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## Chops (May 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>HAWK23</b>!
> 
> 
> I think those 3 are stars... Artest is a defensive star, rose is a star, and Terry is not even the best on his team though, I would give it to glenn robinson or Shareef before I give Terry the title of Star.


Tracy McGrady and Kobe Bryant. Those guys are stars, IMO. The guys mentioned above are good players. I don't think you can be a "specialty" star. You are one or you aren't.


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## Chops (May 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> 
> 
> Elton Brand, last year the Clippers didn't make the Playoffs, and failed to win 40 games.


They weren't the worst team in the league were they? Try again.


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## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>KC</b>!
> 
> 
> Tracy McGrady and Kobe Bryant. Those guys are stars, IMO. The guys mentioned above are good players. I don't think you can be a "specialty" star. You are one or you aren't.


put davis on a large market team LIKE the Bulls and he would be considered a star


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>KC</b>!
> but you can't ever give any supporting evidence as to why you may be right


And how can I give evidence to myself in this case? Once again, you can't give any "evidence" to prove that I'm wrong. 

This isn't a case of "evidence", I'm saying he's a great player, which he is.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> 
> 
> In the East there are SFs doing as well as Davis?
> ...


He is listed as a guard on the All-Star ballot. So SF doesnt matter. And Robinson and Jamal Mashburn both deserve a spot over Davis.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>KC</b>!
> 
> 
> They weren't the worst team in the league were they? Try again.


Then you need to define the word "crappy" better.


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## Chops (May 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>HAWK23</b>!
> 
> 
> put davis on a large market team LIKE the Bulls and he would be considered a star


Not in my eyes. And he wouldn't be getting anything from anyone else if he were on the Bulls either. No one respects the Bulls.

Davis is a good player, not a star, IMO.


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## Chops (May 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> 
> 
> And how can I give evidence to myself in this case? Once again, you can't give any "evidence" to prove that I'm wrong.
> ...


Ok, then if that is all you have to say, no problem.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Dee Bo</b>!
> 
> 
> He is listed as a guard on the All-Star ballot. So SF doesnt matter. And Robinson and Jamal Mashburn both deserve a spot over Davis.


Ok, if he's listed as SG on the ballot, the coach should choose him to be a bench player.

He's great, but not better than T-Mac, AI, or Kidd.


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## Chops (May 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> 
> 
> Then you need to define the word "crappy" better.


In the cellar, not close to .500


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> 
> 
> Ok, if he's listed as SG on the ballot, the coach should choose him to be a bench player.
> ...


Or Pierce or Stackhouse or Richard Hamilton or Baron Davis or Ray Allen or Allan Houston or Jalen Rose.

Aint gonna happen.


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## Chops (May 30, 2002)

If Ricky Davis is a star, then so are 60+ other players in the league.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

Wow, 36 posts in 24 minutes.


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>HAWK23</b>!
> 
> 
> He shoots, drives, dunks, makes some 3's, and excites the crowd, what more do you want?


To rebound, make assist and play D, would be a nice start.



> Originally posted by <b>Dee Bo</b>!
> 
> 
> Rose and Terry are not stars. Scorers, yes. Not stars.


My opinion about Davis


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>KC</b>!
> If Ricky Davis is a star, then so are 60+ other players in the league.


I agree, he is good explosive, but not a star yet. Could be one tough.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

Stackhouse...not having a better season that Davis
Hamilton...not having a better season that Davis
Pierce...well, I'll give ya that one 
Ray Allen...about even this year
Baron Davis...about even this year

But Ricky Davis is a HIGH-FLY act, THAT is what the fans want to see at an All-Star Game. Not guys like Hamilton, who rarely dunk. Allen can dunk the ball, but he isn't as flashy as Davis.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>KC</b>!
> If Ricky Davis is a star, then so are 60+ other players in the league.


Name some please. Remember, Davis is 7th in the league in scoring.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> Stackhouse...not having a better season that Davis
> Hamilton...not having a better season that Davis
> Pierce...well, I'll give ya that one
> ...


All their numbers are similiar, but all the above guys are winning. That would get them all on the team before Davis. Also, none of the above guys have been sat down by their coach during a game, another strike against him.


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## Chops (May 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> 
> 
> Name some please. Remember, Davis is 7th in the league in scoring.


Scoring, big deal. Lets see him do other things stars do. Lets see him defend someone, or grab some rebounds. Maybe while he's at it, this "star" can lead his team to more than 6 wins through 30 games.


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> 
> 
> But Ricky Davis is a HIGH-FLY act, THAT is what the fans want to see at an All-Star Game. Not guys like Hamilton, who rarely dunk. Allen can dunk the ball, but he isn't as flashy as Davis.


Yup, I agree again, but that doens't make him a star, does it? I wanna see him in the ASG as much as everyone, but he's not a star...unless you mean "All-Star Game" Star.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

He's getting 23ppg 4rpg and 4apg. He is a star on a crappy team, they do exist you know.


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> He's getting 23ppg 4rpg and 4apg. He is a star on a crappy team, they do exist you know.


Now I agree and end my disscustion.


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## Chops (May 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> He's getting 23ppg 4rpg and 4apg. He is a star on a crappy team, they do exist you know.


What makes him a star? The fact that he scores points? Other than scoring and being "flashy" he doesn't do squat.


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## spartanfan2003 (Jul 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> He's getting 23ppg 4rpg and 4apg. He is a star on a crappy team, they do exist you know.


Agreed, why not nominate Posey for all-star if you nominate Davis?


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

Because Davis shoots way better, he puts up better stats and he's an all-around better player.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> He's getting 23ppg 4rpg and 4apg. He is a star on a crappy team, they do exist you know.


This is the problem with the NBA today.. everyone wants to anoint anyone with a good stretch of games as a star...

Davis is not a star.


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## Chops (May 30, 2002)

Richard Jefferson is a star. He dunks just as much as Davis, so he is definitely up there.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Dee Bo</b>!
> 
> 
> This is the problem with the NBA today.. everyone wants to anoint anyone with a good stretch of games as a star...
> ...


Look at the numbers and watch a few Cavs games.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>KC</b>!
> Richard Jefferson is a star. He dunks just as much as Davis, so he is definitely up there.


What? I NEVER said he was a star because he dunks a lot. I NEVER said that.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

Over 50 posts in 50 minutes.


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## Chops (May 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> 
> 
> What? I NEVER said he was a star because he dunks a lot. I NEVER said that.


I know, I did. Jefferson is just as much a star as Davis. He is just as flashy, he gets more rebounds, he plays much better defense, shoots a higher FG % and plays for a winning team.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

OMG, whatever...sure, ya Richardson is a star.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> 
> 
> Look at the numbers and watch a few Cavs games.


That is ridiculous. First, you can't become a star after having a good third of a season. His career scoring avg stinks before this season.

He is playing well right now, but not better than 20 other wings in the Easts. So by your determination, then about 1/6 of the 300+ NBA players are "stars" ...

He is a good scorer on a team where he can take any shot he wants and has absolutely no pressure to win whatsoever... Sorry, but as KC says, a "star" can lead his team to a better than 17% winning percentage.


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## Chops (May 30, 2002)

Allan Houston is dropping 22.8 points per game. He is a definite star.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

And if he is getting 22.8ppg, then ya...he's the star of his team.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

You need to really watch Davis play closely. Most of the time, he just seems like a man playing among boys.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> And i he is getting 22.8ppg, then ya...he's the star of his team.


Ugh.. You dont seriously think Houston is a star as well do you?

Maybe we all have a much different definition of star.


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## Chops (May 30, 2002)

Ok, I get it. The person who scores the most, is the star of the team, making them a star in the league. Eddie Jones is a star too. 17.8 PPG.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

I said Houston is the star of the Knicks.

Davis basically IS the Cleveland Cavaliers. That may not seem much, considering that they've only won 6 games, but without him...they wouldn't have 1 win. He seriously does everything for that team. A lot of the time, he just 100% carries them when no one else is doing squat. Take for instance tonight's game against the Heat. 33 of their 74 points.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>KC</b>!
> Ok, I get it. The person who scores the most, is the star of the team, making them a star in the league. Eddie Jones is a star too. 17.8 PPG.


Eddie Jones is the star of his team. He isn't a star in the league, neither is Houston.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

Maybe Davis ISN'T a star in the league YET. But for what he is doing for that team, he deserves to be an All-Star this year.


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## Chops (May 30, 2002)

What about Wagner? He's a star. 18 PPG. They also have a star in the making in Darius Miles and reliable big men in Boozer and Ilgauskus. 

2 stars and they still have just 6 wins.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> Maybe Davis ISN'T a star in the league YET. But for what he is doing for that team, he deserves to be an All-Star this year.


No he doesnt. He should he get the nod over? As far as guards, there are a dozen ahead of him. And those guys teams are actually WINNING.

He should be in the dunk contest, but that is the only All-Star love he deserves.


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## Chops (May 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Dee Bo</b>!
> 
> 
> No he doesnt. He should he get the nod over? As far as guards, there are a dozen ahead of him. And those guys teams are actually WINNING.
> ...


Agreed. A definite dunk contest candidate.


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## spartanfan2003 (Jul 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Dee Bo</b>!
> 
> 
> No he doesnt. He should he get the nod over? As far as guards, there are a dozen ahead of him. And those guys teams are actually WINNING.
> ...


Exactly! Be realistic! You have -

Kidd
Jordan
Iverson
Peirce
Houston
Stackhouse
Allen
McGrady
Cassell
B.Davis
E.Jones
Hamilton
Artest
and the list goes on! 

Does he deserve the nod over all of them?


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

First of all...Wagner and Miles are shooting under 40% from the field. 

Second...I have players players in a few different categories. Let me show you.

Scrubs (Guys that seriously give their teams NOTHING): Travis Knight, etc.
Bench Warmers (Guys that are OK players, but spend the majority of their game time cheerleading from the bench): Mark Madsen, etc.
Role Players (Guys that do what they need to do, rebound, defend, and sometimes score a few baskets): Rick Fox, Bruce Bowen, etc.
Good Players (Guys that are more than role players, but less than great players): Derek Fisher, Chucky Atkins, etc.
Great Players (Guys that are just short of being stars, can really provide for their teams): Richard Jefferson, etc.
Star Players (Guys that need a little more improvement to become superstars, but are basically among the top 25 players in the league): *Ricky Davis*, Shawn Marion, etc.
Superstar Players (Phenominal players, the best of the best, can take control of games whenever they want to): Kobe Bryant, Tracy McGrady, Allen Iverson, Shaq, Kevin Garnett, etc.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> First of all...Wagner and Miles are shooting under 40% from the field.
> 
> Second...I have players players in a few different categories. Let me show you.
> ...


Woah now.. Davis one of the top 25 in the league? Na-ah. No way.

Might not even be top 50.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Spartanfan2003</b>!
> 
> 
> Exactly! Be realistic! You have -
> ...


You'd choose Davis over Houston, Stackhouse, Cassell, Jones, Hamilton and Artest? Come on now, you may question me on Stackhouse...but he is TOTALLY inconsistent. He gets 5-6 point games about twice a month. Davis is at least consistent.

I would definitely pick Ricky over those 6 guys.


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## Chops (May 30, 2002)

Maybe in the land of Bill Walton, Richard Jefferson is a "great" player. In that same land, Derek Fisher is considered more than a role player. It seems like you have everyone one group higher than they should be. Ricky Davis is not a top 25 player.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> 
> 
> You'd choose Davis over Houston, Stackhouse, Cassell, Jones, Hamilton and Artest? Come on now, you may question me on Stackhouse...but he is TOTALLY inconsistent. He gets 5-6 point games about twice a month. Davis is at least consistent.
> ...


You might, be most of the league's GMs would probably take any of those 6 over Davis.


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## Chops (May 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> 
> 
> You'd choose Davis over Houston, Stackhouse, Cassell, Jones, Hamilton and Artest? Come on now, you may question me on Stackhouse...but he is TOTALLY inconsistent. He gets 5-6 point games about twice a month. Davis is at least consistent.
> ...


Stackhouse has been in single-digits scoring only twice this season. 3 times for good ole Ricky.


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## spartanfan2003 (Jul 12, 2002)

Ok, right here right now, in no order Damian, name who you believe are the top 25 players in the league.


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## spartanfan2003 (Jul 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Dee Bo</b>!
> 
> 
> You might, be most of the league's GMs would probably take any of those 6 over Davis.


Definently!


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Dee Bo</b>!
> 
> 
> Woah now.. Davis one of the top 25 in the league? Na-ah. No way.
> ...


My Top 25 (not in order):
C-Webb
Dirk
KG
Pierce
AI
T-Mac
Kobe
Kidd
Shaq
Duncan
Francis
B. Davis
Allen
Jordan
Stackhouse
A. Walker
Brand
Payton
Nash
Marion
Marbury
G. Robinson
Ricky Davis
Vince Carter
Jermaine O'Neal

As you can see...the list gets very arguable after about 10 guys.


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## spartanfan2003 (Jul 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> 
> 
> My Top 25 (not in order):
> ...


GASOL IS TOP 20! FINLEY!??!?!?!


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Spartanfan2003</b>!
> 
> 
> GASOL IS TOP 20!


lol, no way dude. No way.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

Gasol can't defend, is too weak, and frickin cries all the time. He very often has games where he is a complete non-factor.


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## spartanfan2003 (Jul 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> 
> 
> lol, no way dude. No way.


lmfao, yes way dude


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

I would classify Gasol as a "Great Player", but mostly everyone will probably disagree with me.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Spartanfan2003</b>!
> 
> 
> GASOL IS TOP 20! FINLEY!??!?!?!


I DID say that it gets very arguable, you are further proving my point. Thanks Spartan!


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## spartanfan2003 (Jul 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> Gasol can't defend, is too weak, and frickin cries all the time. He very often has games where he is a complete non-factor.


Gasol has been taught to defend.
Gasol has added 30 pounds.
Gasol has learned not to cry like a girl when he doesn't get the call he wants.
He has only been a non-factor in like two games out of over 150!
He has many more plusses than minusses.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Spartanfan2003</b>!
> 
> 
> Gasol has been taught to defend.
> ...


Wrong, he still cries like a little girl. You yourself made a post about him about a month ago doing it. And he continues to. 

Two games? More than that. 

And 30 pounds? He's already as skinny as a stick.

If he had sex, he could start a fire!

(Credit to that last post goes the writer of "Down to Earth" the movie)


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## spartanfan2003 (Jul 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> 
> 
> I DID say that it gets very arguable, you are further proving my point. Thanks Spartan!


But you are one of the only people who I know that would argue in Ricky Davis' favor!


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## Chops (May 30, 2002)

Jamison?
Mashburn?
Rose?
Shareef?
Andre Miller?
Gasol?
Wallace?
Finley?


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## spartanfan2003 (Jul 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> 
> 
> Wrong, he still cries like a little girl. You yourself made a post about him about a month ago doing it. And he continues to. Two games? More than that.


He has learned since Hubbie has gotten here. Tony Massenberg when asked what he saw different about Gasol said that he is stronger, smarter, and doesn't complain for calls. And I would say that two games sounds about right!


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## spartanfan2003 (Jul 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>KC</b>!
> Jamison?
> Mashburn?
> Rose?
> ...


Cassell?
^^^^^


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>KC</b>!
> Jamison?
> Mashburn?
> Rose?
> ...


Out of those guys...I'd put Jamison over Marbury. The rest of the guys are borderline. There really are no DEFINITE top 25 players. I could narrow it down to 35, but 25 is a little too hard.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Spartanfan2003</b>!
> 
> 
> He has learned since Hubbie has gotten here. Tony Massenberg when asked what he saw different about Gasol said that he is stronger, smarter, and doesn't complain for calls.


He's Tony Massenburg, it's not like he's a basketball God. LMFAO.


----------



## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Spartanfan2003</b>!
> 
> 
> Cassell?
> ^^^^^


Cassell, no. He's a ball-hog and he looks like an alien. LOL.


----------



## spartanfan2003 (Jul 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> 
> 
> Out of those guys...I'd put Jamison over Marbury. The rest of the guys are borderline. There really are no DEFINITE top 25 players. I could narrow it down to 35, but 25 is a little too hard.


I agree that it is hard to pick top 25 or 25, but Ricky Davis should not be one of the players that it is hard to chose from!


----------



## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

The numbers say he is.


----------



## spartanfan2003 (Jul 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> 
> 
> He's Tony Massenburg, it's not like he's a basketball God. LMFAO.


No, but he did replace Larry Bird when he got injured. And he did play with Gasol ALL of last year. So, who knows Gasol best? None other than T-Mass, his training partner.


----------



## spartanfan2003 (Jul 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> The numbers say he is.


Look at everyone else's #'s!


----------



## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

Gasol is still weak, and has no chance guarding a bigger player in the post.


----------



## Chops (May 30, 2002)

Jamison
Miller
Finley
Shareef

They all need to be in your top 25.


----------



## spartanfan2003 (Jul 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> 
> 
> Cassell, no. He's a ball-hog and he looks like an alien. LOL.


Haha, Ricky Davis is just as big of a ball hog! Oh, and how could Sam put up those assist numbers if he is a ball hog?


----------



## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Spartanfan2003</b>!
> 
> Look at everyone else's #'s!


The numbers say he's just as good (honestly I think he's MUCH better) as Gasol.


----------



## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>KC</b>!
> Jamison
> Miller
> Finley
> ...


As I said, very arguable. Finley, no...he has off nights every 4th game.


----------



## Chops (May 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> 
> 
> As I said, very arguable. Finley, no...he has off nights every 4th game.


Imagine if he had his own team. On the Mavs he can afford to have off-nights. There is no way in hell Ricky Davis would be scoring 20 points on a winning team.


----------



## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

If you look at the numbers, Davis is better than Finley.


----------



## Chops (May 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> If you look at the numbers, Davis is better than Finley.


Yeah, but people aren't blind. Numbers lie. Especially in favor of Davis.


----------



## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

The Cavs have had a lot of close games, they could easily be a good team (roaming around .500).


----------



## spartanfan2003 (Jul 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> Gasol is still weak, and has no chance guarding a bigger player in the post.


Gasol has STUFFED KG! DUNKED ON KG! EMBARASSED KG!!!!!!

well, that was last year.

You have no idea how in the last few games, Gasol has gotten stronger. He POWER DUNKED over A.Mason and Thomas in the Bucks game and two minutes later, he alley-ooped on Gadzuric! And as far as dunks go, he can windmill. Anyway, strength is not everything anyway! Is Iverson the world's strongest man?


----------



## spartanfan2003 (Jul 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> The Cavs have had a lot of close games, they could easily be a good team (roaming around .500).


Memphis lost to SA and LAL in OT! Not to mention 1,000,000 other close games!


----------



## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

The Cavs have 11 losses of 8 points or less.


----------



## Chops (May 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> The Cavs have had a lot of close games, they could easily be a good team (roaming around .500).


That is ridiculous. They are 6-24. I don't want to hear about close games, they are what they are. A horrible team. Davis isn't a top 25 player, you are probably the only one on earth who believes he is. Good night.


----------



## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Spartanfan2003</b>!
> 
> 
> Gasol has STUFFED KG! DUNKED ON KG! EMBARASSED KG!!!!!!
> ...


So just because he has dunked over people, he is a star? 

Darius Miles has dunked over hundreds of people, he isn't a star.


----------



## Chops (May 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> The Cavs have 11 losses of 8 points or less.


8 points or less? C'mon, 8 points isn't that close. Try something like 3 points or less. It doesn't even matter.


----------



## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>KC</b>!
> 
> 
> That is ridiculous. They are 6-24. I don't want to hear about close games, they are what they are. A horrible team. Davis isn't a top 25 player, you are probably the only one on earth who believes he is. Good night.


Look at the post above. They could be 17-13. They aren't but they've had close games against good teams, and they give all they've got every game.


----------



## spartanfan2003 (Jul 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> The Cavs have 11 losses of 8 points or less.


I don't have the time to calculate the Grizz's losses that are 8 points or less, but I am sure there are a tonne!!!!!!!!!! besides, 8 pts is a lot! thats a blowout! and what teams have the cavs beat?


----------



## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

3 of those games were OT games. 1 against the Bucks, and 2 against Detroit. 2 of those games were included in the 5-8 point range.


----------



## Chops (May 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Spartanfan2003</b>!
> 
> 
> I don't have the time to calculate the Grizz's losses that are 8 points or less, but I am sure there are a tonne!!!!!!!!!! besides, 8 pts is a lot! thats a blowout! and what teams have the cavs beat?


Agreed. 8 points is hardly a close game.


----------



## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Spartanfan2003</b>!
> 
> 
> I don't have the time to calculate the Grizz's losses that are 8 points or less, but I am sure there are a tonne!!!!!!!!!! besides, 8 pts is a lot! thats a blowout! and what teams have the cavs beat?


Just look at the schedule, it takes like 40 seconds.


----------



## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>KC</b>!
> 
> 
> Agreed. 8 points is hardly a close game.


Wrong. You can be in a close game, but be outscored by 6 or 7 points in the last 2 minutes. I've seen a lot of close games that are in the double-digit range. Take for instance last night's Washington vs. San Antonio game. The Spurs outscored Washington by something like 11 in the final 2 minutes and won by 11.


----------



## spartanfan2003 (Jul 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> 
> 
> Just look at the schedule, it takes like 40 seconds.


My computer is not working on NBA.com!


----------



## Chops (May 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> 
> 
> Wrong. You can be in a close game, but be outscored by 6 or 7 points in the last 2 minutes. I've seen a lot of close games that are in the double-digit range. Take for instance last night's Washington vs. San Antonio game. The Spurs outscored Washington by something like 11 in the final 2 minutes and won by 11.


And it works the opposite way. Maybe the Cavs were getting blown out and got some garbage points at the end to bring it into your 8-point range.


----------



## spartanfan2003 (Jul 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> 
> 
> Wrong. You can be in a close game, but be outscored by 6 or 7 points in the last 2 minutes. I've seen a lot of close games that are in the double-digit range. Take for instance last night's Washington vs. San Antonio game. The Spurs outscored Washington by something like 11 in the final 2 minutes and won by 11.


That is what we call a run.


----------



## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

Then it becomes a close game at the end. The Lakers were kicking the Blazers' azz last year in a Playoff game, and in the last 4 minutes the Blazers went on a furious run and they lost by about 6 or 7. The game was close.


----------



## spartanfan2003 (Jul 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>KC</b>!
> 
> 
> And it works the opposite way. Maybe the Cavs were getting blown out and got some garbage points at the end to bring it into your 8-point range.


Exactly! I can not tell you how many times that happens, when a team is up by 20 so they put in their bench guys and win by 8!


----------



## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Spartanfan2003</b>!
> 
> 
> That is what we call a run.


Huh? The game was close, that's what I'm talking about.

The Cavs aren't as bad as their record shows.


----------



## Chops (May 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> Then it becomes a close game at the end. The Lakers were kicking the Blazers' azz last year in a Playoff game, and in the last 4 minutes the Blazers went on a furious run and they lost by about 6 or 7. The game was close.


Then the way you explained, it becomes a blow out.


----------



## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>KC</b>!
> 
> 
> And it works the opposite way. Maybe the Cavs were getting blown out and got some garbage points at the end to bring it into your 8-point range.


Do you have any evidence to prove this?


----------



## spartanfan2003 (Jul 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> Then it becomes a close game at the end. The Lakers were kicking the Blazers' azz last year in a Playoff game, and in the last 4 minutes the Blazers went on a furious run and they lost by about 6 or 7. The game was close.


So you just proved an untyped point of mine, NUMBERS LIE! Who knows if those games were close? I am just saying, if you pick up the paper and see that the Cavs lost 93 to 101, I am gonna think - BLOWOUT!


----------



## spartanfan2003 (Jul 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> 
> 
> Do you have any evidence to prove this?


Do you have any evidence not to prove this?


----------



## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

Listen, bottomline...the Cavs don't get blown out too often in their losses. 

If you have actually watched Cavs games and can give me a recap of a game where the Cavs have gotten garbage points at the end of the 4th, I'll give the "sometimes close games are blowouts" argument to you, because I don't think that situation has come upon Cleveland this year.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Spartanfan2003</b>!
> 
> 
> Do you have any evidence not to prove this?


THANK YOU for saying that!!!!!

That's exactly what I say to KC, and he throws it in my face. THANK YOU!


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## spartanfan2003 (Jul 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> Listen, bottomline...the Cavs don't get blown out too often in their losses.
> 
> If you have actually watched Cavs games and can give me a recap of a game where the Cavs have gotten garbage points at the end of the 4th, I'll give the "sometimes close games are blowouts" argument to you, because I don't think that situation has come upon Cleveland this year.


I have seen one Grizzlies blowout, last Sunday. And that is the ONLY one since they have been in Memphis!


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

Why are you talking about the Grizzlies?

This thread is about Ricky Davis and the Cavs.


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## spartanfan2003 (Jul 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> Why are you talking about the Grizzlies?
> 
> This thread is about Ricky Davis and the Cavs.


Just friendly comparison!  HAHA!


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## Chops (May 30, 2002)

Damian, give it up. The Cavs have lost 13 of their 24 games by 10 points or more.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

Yet they lost 11 games by 8 points or less.


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## spartanfan2003 (Jul 12, 2002)

Goodnight, if this continues tomorrow, I will post more. I hope this arguement ends, because it is 2:05 here and I am going to bed!

Closing point - 
Ricky Davis All-Star = :naughty: 
Grizzlies = better than Cavs


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

Remember, there are just as many games that look close that are actually blowouts, as there are games that look like blowouts but are actually close.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

Goodnight, I'm tired. 12:02 (yawn).


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## Chops (May 30, 2002)

You just said that they don't get blown out often. Well 13 times they have been beat by 10 points or more. Most of the time they get blown out. 11 times they hung within 10.

to recap:

13 times they got blown out.
11 times they hung within 10.

_Listen, bottomline...the Cavs don't get blown out too often in their losses._--- Damian Necronamous


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

*No All-star*

Look I will agree that Ricky's numbers are great, but I was reading a couple of articles on him and the fact that he doesn't play much defense, if at all and the fact that he is the leading scorer on a team that loses and loses doesn't help. But what will keep him from getting recognition is the fact that he is not liked by his teammates and he has been suspended TWICE by John Lucas. That doesn't happen to all-stars, the coach can't be suspending you. 

And scoring is not the only thing that makes an all-star.


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## JOHNNY_BRAVisimO (Jun 11, 2002)

if the cavs can start winning games then davis has a shot at the all star game, until then he's just one guy in a long list of 'great' players on bad teams. because the point in basketball is to actually WIN games, not stuff the stat sheet.

but i DO agree that davis has all star talent, but he still has to prove that he can contribute to a winning team while putting up those numbers.


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## pharcyde (Jun 22, 2002)

You guys post too fast and too much. I had to give up after page four.

Anyway, my take on the whole "Is Ricky Davis a star?" deal is that right now he's not, but he's playing like one over the past couple of weeks, especially recently(what was it, three 40 point games in five days? DAMN!), and he looks like he very well could become one. If he continues to improve and works on his all around game(not just scoring), and Wagner does the same, and Diop shows why he was a lottery pick and they land James, watch out NBA.


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## The OUTLAW (Jun 13, 2002)

*Davis is not a star, but he is a very good player*

It takes years to be a star. Frankly I don't think VC is a star, he has the talent but he hasn't done it long enough and with all the injuries I'm not sure he ever will. 




> Originally posted by <b>newmessiah10</b>!
> Look I will agree that Ricky's numbers are great, but I was reading a couple of articles on him and the fact that he doesn't play much defense, if at all and the fact that he is the leading scorer on a team that loses and loses doesn't help. But what will keep him from getting recognition is the fact that he is not liked by his teammates and he has been suspended TWICE by John Lucas. That doesn't happen to all-stars, the coach can't be suspending you.
> 
> And scoring is not the only thing that makes an all-star.


Davis is really a shooting guard, he does however often play at sf especially when Wagner is also on the floor.

I don't think Davis is one dimensional but there are plenty of other players who are considered stars that are one dimensional. 

C'mon guys watch some games. Davis is not a bad defender and he actually is pretty good at finding the open man. 

Davis gets along very well with his teammates. He doesn't however like to lose and then he gets upset. The only ones he's even argued with are Bimbo and Tyrone. 

He was suspended once by the coach because of his on court dispute with Tyrone Hill. Cleveland has a very young team and the coach really just wanted to let them and specifically Davis know that this was his team.




> Originally posted by <b>KC</b>!
> 
> 
> Not really. Name a guy who has made the all-star team on a crappy team. And if a guy like Ricky Davis starts being called a "star" then so is Jalen Rose and so is Jason Terry, and so is Ron Artest.


Jordan was a star on some very crappy Bulls teams

They weren't called the Jordanaires for nothing


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## Chops (May 30, 2002)

*Re: Davis is not a star, but he is a very good player*



> Originally posted by <b>The OUTLAW</b>!
> 
> 
> Jordan was a star on some very crappy Bulls teams
> ...


Yeah, and Jordan was putting up huge numbers. They dwarfed the numbers of Ricky Davis. I can't even believe you brought that up.


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## The OUTLAW (Jun 13, 2002)

yes he was putting up big number but the question was if a star ever played on a bad team. I am not actually comparing Jordan and Davis.


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## Chops (May 30, 2002)

Look at Jordan's first 3 years, not counting his injury plaqued season.

28.2 points, 6.50 rebounds, 5.9 assists, 51.5% FG
37.1 points, 5.20 rebounds, 4.6 assists, 48.2% FG
35.0 points, 5.50 rebounds, 5.9 assists, 53.5% FG

Jordan was puting up numbers that were just incredible. He was a star from the moment he stepped into the league. Ricky Davis isn't putting up stats far and away better than anyone that is worthy of going to the all-star game. He is in a mix of a bunch of other guys who score and rebound just as much as him and he is doing it on a losing team.


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## The OUTLAW (Jun 13, 2002)

If you read my other post I said that I didnt' consider Davis a star. I think that he is a good player who is finally getting a chance. He may become a star but right now he is still learning.

And yes you are right Jordan was a star from jump. But he also played on a bad team therefore there have been stars that deserved to be All stars on bad teams.


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## Chops (May 30, 2002)

Year before Jordan- 27-55
Jordan's 1st year- 38-44
Jordan's 2nd year- 30-52 (Injured most of the season)
Jordan's 3rd year- 40-42

None of those teams were close to being as bad as this years Cleveland squad. The question wasn't if a star could be on a losing team, it was if they could be on a crappy team. Crappy team, meaning not even close to .500

In any event, Jordan was putting up huge numbers from the moment he came into the league.


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## Chops (May 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>The OUTLAW</b>!
> And yes you are right Jordan was a star from jump. But he also played on a bad team therefore there have been stars that deserved to be All stars on bad teams.


I am not talking about bad teams, as in just under .500

I am talking about crap teams that will struggle to win 20-25 games. I defined what I was talking about earlier in the thread.


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## The OUTLAW (Jun 13, 2002)

Okay, well I know I wasn't going to read everything you all were saying last night so I missed that. My only point behind posting in this thread is that I believe that Davis is a better player than most people give him credit for. I think he is a very productive player, maybe not an allstar but definitely near that caliber player.


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## Chops (May 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>The OUTLAW</b>!
> Okay, well I know I wasn't going to read everything you all were saying last night so I missed that. My only point behind posting in this thread is that I believe that Davis is a better player than most people give him credit for. I think he is a very productive player, maybe not an allstar but definitely near that caliber player.


I agree with that.


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## Coatesvillain (Jul 17, 2002)

I actually read this whole post, I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing.

What I came here to say last season, Andre Miller put up numbers that many said deserved to be AllStar game material. He lead the league in assists, on an awful Cavalier team. Last season, it was known at that point that Miller was a star player, but he didn't get the nod, when he deserved it.. so this year, I don't believe that Davis should get the nod for that same reason.

-Tim


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## THE'clip'SHOW (Sep 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>KC</b>!
> 
> 
> Uhh...yes. You aren't a real star if your team is 6-24.


I'm sure you've heard the phrase "you can't make chicken salad out of chicken 'expletive' " So kobe and shaq are no longer stars cause there teams are losing?


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## Chops (May 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>THE'clip'SHOW</b>!
> 
> 
> I'm sure you've heard the phrase "you can't make chicken salad out of chicken ****" So kobe and shaq are no longer stars cause there teams are losing?


Yeah, that's it.  Please read the thread before posting.

We've seen Shaq and Kobe put up great numbers on a championship team. When is the last time Ricky Davis put up these kind of numbers on a team other than 6-24.


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## THE'clip'SHOW (Sep 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>KC</b>!
> Allan Houston is dropping 22.8 points per game. He is a definite star.


 Ricky Davis would chew up and spit out Houston.


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## THE'clip'SHOW (Sep 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>KC</b>!
> 
> 
> Yeah, that's it.  Please read the thread before posting.
> ...


I read the entire thread, were talking about all-stars THIS YEAR. So if an all-star cant have a horrible record, than Kobe and Shaq aren't all stars this year.
Everyone whines about how Kobe can't do it by himself (and their right), but that doesn't detract from his talent. So why should Ricky's chances be hindered by the fact that his team is young, immature and most of the talent is not developed?

I've watched alot of cavs games this season and Ricky is not a one-dimensional player or scorer. I've watched as teams will double him at the 3 line and he still manages to score or find a cutter, and he does play D. And more than anything like Outlaw said earlier, he can't stand losing. If all the players on the team had the same attitude Ricky does they would win some of there closer games. ..... and they have had ALOT of close games that they lost.


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## Chops (May 30, 2002)

The Lakers are 11-18. That is better than 6-24. 6-24 is just dreadful, wheras 11-18 is just bad. Kobe is averaging near 30 points, 8 rebounds and 6 assists. Those are all-star numbers, no matter how you slice. If Ricky Davis was doing that, then it would be a different story. Hell, if Ricky Davis had done anything prior to this season, like Kobe has, then he may get a pass as a "star". The fact is, this is his best year so far, and his team is the worst in the league.


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## THE'clip'SHOW (Sep 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>KC</b>!
> The Lakers are 11-18. That is better than 6-24. 6-24 is just dreadful, wheras 11-18 is just bad. Kobe is averaging near 30 points, 8 rebounds and 6 assists. Those are all-star numbers, no matter how you slice. If Ricky Davis was doing that, then it would be a different story. Hell, if Ricky Davis had done anything prior to this season, like Kobe has, then he may get a pass as a "star". The fact is, this is his best year so far, and his team is the worst in the league.


I agree with you there, I do think a track record of performing is required to be an "all-star" calibur player.


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## Arclite (Nov 2, 2002)

Guards in the East that deserve to go to the All-star game ahead of Ricky Davis (not only statistically but record-wise):

Kidd
McGrady
Pierce
Iverson
B. Davis
Jason Terry
Sam Cassell

And on top of that, when 3 million people tune in to the all-star game, what % of those do you think are actually going to know who Ricky Davis is?

McGrady, Pierce, Kidd, B. Davis, Iverson, and Allen would all be picked ahead of Ricky Davis.


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## Absynth (Oct 1, 2002)

davis over cassel and terry


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>The OUTLAW</b>!
> yes he was putting up big number but the question was if a star ever played on a bad team. I am not actually comparing Jordan and Davis.


Just wondering...would you consider Peja Stojakovic or Jalen Rose stars?


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## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Spartanfan2003</b>!
> 
> 
> GASOL IS TOP 20! FINLEY!??!?!?!


lol damn I went to bed about 20 min too early


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

My Top 35 (not in order):
C-Webb
Dirk
KG
Pierce
AI
T-Mac
Kobe
Kidd
Shaq
Duncan
Francis
B. Davis
Allen
Jordan
Stackhouse
A. Walker
Brand
Payton
Nash
Marion
Marbury
G. Robinson
Ricky Davis
Vince Carter
Jermaine O'Neal
Sam Cassell
Antawn Jamison
Michael Finley
Rasheed Wallace
Andre Miller
Michael Finley
Shareef Abdur-Rahim
Jamal Mashburn
Karl Malone
Jason Terry

I think you guys will agree on that.


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## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

I still think that Rose is better than Antwain Jamison


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## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

or he should at least be in the top 35


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## spartanfan2003 (Jul 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> My Top 35 (not in order):
> C-Webb
> Dirk
> ...


GASOL IS TOP 20! DIDN'T I TEACH YO ANYTHING!?!?!??! GASOL!:upset: :upset: :upset:


----------



## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

Blah blah blah, Gasol isn't top 20, NOT EVEN close!

You're going to rank him among guys like Marion and Baron Davis? LMAO.

He is getting 16.7ppg, he continues to have nights where he is a complete NON-FACTOR.


----------



## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Spartanfan2003</b>!
> 
> 
> GASOL IS TOP 20! DIDN'T I TEACH YO ANYTHING!?!?!??! GASOL!:upset: :upset: :upset:


And let's see your top 20 players Spartan.


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## Devestata (May 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> 
> 
> And let's see your top 20 players Spartan.


Come to think of it, I think your list is pretty accurate. I would definitely consider taking off Stackhouse or MJ to put on Gasol...or maybe even Jason Terry?


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

MJ is old, but I would take him over Gasol ANY DAY.


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## Devestata (May 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> MJ is old, but I would take him over Gasol ANY DAY.


Let me take a guess...because of the clutch factor? MJ hasn't particulary been accurate this season..but I guess in the clutch he always pulls it off.


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## spartanfan2003 (Jul 12, 2002)

My 20 (no order) - 


Dirk
KG
Kobe
Kidd
Duncan
TMac
AI
Nash
Webber
Franchise
Peirce
Payton
B.Davis
Brand
Shaq
the other 5 spots are too close to tell, but I would definintly put Gasol in one of them!


----------



## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

so you think Gasol is a top 16 player then?? Last night you said top 25 player- I think that is where he fits around spot 20-25... he isn't top 16.


----------



## spartanfan2003 (Jul 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>HAWK23</b>!
> so you think Gasol is a top 16 player then?? Last night you said top 25 player- I think that is where he fits around spot 20-25... he isn't top 16.


Well, I would say he would be one of the ones that are very close. I just put him in my list because he was the main reason of me even doing a list. C?


----------



## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

yea, but atleast finish off the list so people don't get the impression you think that he is top 16. Because then you won't have ANY credability at all.


----------



## spartanfan2003 (Jul 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> MJ is old, but I would take him over Gasol ANY DAY.


Ok, lets say that you are hired as the new Charlotte GM. You can take Jordan or Gasol. You take Jordan. Oops, sorry, you just lost your job! Noone would take Jordan over Gasol in their right mind!


----------



## spartanfan2003 (Jul 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>HAWK23</b>!
> yea, but atleast finish off the list so people don't get the impression you think that he is top 16. Because then you won't have ANY credability at all.


Ok, I will edit it.


- dOnE -


----------



## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Spartanfan2003</b>!
> My 20 (no order) -
> 
> 1.Pau
> ...


You rank Gasol over Rasheed Wallace, Jermaine O'Neal, Antoine Walker, Antawn Jamison, Vince Carter, and Shawn Marion?!?!?!?!

C'mon Spartan, you're clearly biased here.


----------



## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

well, in a 1 VS 1 game I would take MJ... in a game I needed a MUST win you take Jordan, but if your going to start a franchise you take the 22 year old rather than the 40 year old OBVIOUSLY


----------



## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Spartanfan2003</b>!
> 
> 
> Ok, lets say that you are hired as the new Charlotte GM. You can take Jordan or Gasol. You take Jordan. Oops, sorry, you just lost your job! Noone would take Jordan over Gasol in their right mind!


I would, and I would bet my team would win more games than the person who took Gasol. Gasol isn't even close to a leader. MJ knows the game, he hits clutch shots, and he is still better than Gasol.


----------



## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>HAWK23</b>!
> well, in a 1 VS 1 game I would take MJ... in a game I needed a MUST win you take Jordan, but if your going to start a franchise you take the 22 year old rather than the 40 year old OBVIOUSLY


Exactly, but if I wanted to win some games right away...it's definitely MJ.


----------



## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> 
> 
> I would, and I would bet my team would win more games than the person who took Gasol. Gasol isn't even close to a leader. MJ knows the game, he hits clutch shots, and he is still better than Gasol.


well in a long term franchise I think you have to admit Gasol is the better choice because he will be with the team much longer than Jordan... Jordan would only be on the team 1 year then what? You lose your top player and have none to replace him with.


----------



## spartanfan2003 (Jul 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> 
> 
> You rank Gasol over Rasheed Wallace, Jermaine O'Neal, Antoine Walker, Antawn Jamison, Vince Carter, and Shawn Marion?!?!?!?!
> ...


No, that was a typo, I just edited, but I do think he is just as good as most of them.


----------



## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> 
> 
> Exactly, but if I wanted to win some games right away...it's definitely MJ.


right-exactly


----------



## Arclite (Nov 2, 2002)

It's not fair to rank the top 25 players based solely on stats, unless you say the top 25 statistical players.

Look at Big Ben and Richard Hamilton. Wallace averages 6.4 ppg and Hamilton's season high in rebounds is 6. I would take either one of those guys before I took Ricky Davis.

Stats are nice and its fun to compare, but that's not what it's all about. Look at guys like Doug Christie, Andrei Kirilenko, Ron Artest, etc.. Compared to a guy like Ricky Davis who's putting up 23ppg, their stats are very unimpressive, but their presence in games is huge and a key component to their team winning - which is more than I can say about anything Ricky Davis does. With the emergence of Boozer, Wagner, and Ilgauskas his team is still 6-24.

Aside from all that, he is a very exciting player and will soon be a star in this league, no doubt - but right now you can't take a relative unknown to the public from a 6-24 team and put him in the all-star game.


----------



## spartanfan2003 (Jul 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Sovereignz</b>!
> It's not fair to rank the top 25 players based solely on stats, unless you say the top 25 statistical players.
> 
> Look at Big Ben and Richard Hamilton. Wallace averages 6.4 ppg and Hamilton's season high in rebounds is 6. I would take either one of those guys before I took Ricky Davis.
> ...


I agree, Gasol maybe does not put up SUPERSTAR stats, but he IS A LEADER! No matter what you say, he is a floor general who plays with desire and heart. He also does the things that noone talks about, charges, etc. .


----------



## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Sovereignz</b>!
> Look at Big Ben and Richard Hamilton. Wallace averages 6.4 ppg and Hamilton's season high in rebounds is 6. I would take either one of those guys before I took Ricky Davis.


Taking Hamilton over Davis would be an AWFUL decision. All Hamilton does is shoot mid-range jumpers. Davis can shoot the three, hit mid-range shots, and take it to the rack with AUTHORITY!


----------



## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Sovereignz</b>!
> 
> 
> Aside from all that, he is a very exciting player and will soon be a star in this league, no doubt - but right now you can't take a relative unknown to the public from a 6-24 team and put him in the all-star game.


This is why the public should not be involved in the voting... the media could vote him in and he could show his stuff and would become VERY WELL-KNOWN to the public... but this is another subject for another day.


----------



## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Spartanfan2003</b>!
> 
> 
> I agree, Gasol maybe does not put up SUPERSTAR stats, but he IS A LEADER! No matter what you say, he is a floor general who plays with desire and heart. He also does the things that noone talks about, charges, etc. .


If he is a leader, why did the Grizzlies start out something like 0-13? Clearly Hubie Brown is the reason they are winning.


----------



## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> 
> 
> Clearly Hubie Brown is the reason they are winning.


:laugh: :laugh:


----------



## spartanfan2003 (Jul 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> 
> 
> If he is a leader, why did the Grizzlies start out something like 0-13? Clearly Hubie Brown is the reason they are winning.


Gasol was playing injured for about half of those games and the ones that he wasn't Sidney gave Gooden more pt!:upset: :upset: :upset: See the pattern? Gasol plays - they are a winning team. Gasol does not play - they suck.


----------



## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Spartanfan2003</b>!
> 
> 
> Gasol was playing injured for about half of those games and the ones that he wasn't Sidney gave Gooden more pt!:upset: :upset: :upset:


Sure.


----------



## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>HAWK23</b>!
> 
> 
> :laugh: :laugh:


They didn't win any games until he got there. What's so funny? It's quite obvious actually. He makes the right decisions.


----------



## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

Top 25 players play injured


----------



## spartanfan2003 (Jul 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> 
> 
> Sure.


Hey the Lakers suck! Why do you consider Kobe any good if he can't win? Yeah that's what I thought. Don't be a hipocrit.


----------



## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> 
> 
> They didn't win any games until he got there. What's so funny? It's quite obvious actually. He makes the right decisions.


I think it is just a coincidence that Brown got there and they started winning... It's just funny to think that Hubie can have an affect on the Grizzlies winning their games.


----------



## spartanfan2003 (Jul 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> 
> 
> They didn't win any games until he got there. What's so funny? It's quite obvious actually. He makes the right decisions.


right decision - playing Gasol

it is no mystery why Gooden dropped off the ROY radar, it is because he is not getting pt anymore. Hubie is doing it right!


----------



## spartanfan2003 (Jul 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>HAWK23</b>!
> 
> 
> I think it is just a coincidence that Brown got there and they started winning... It's just funny to think that Hubie can have an affect on the Grizzlies winning their games.


More like Gasol playing.


----------



## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Spartanfan2003</b>!
> 
> 
> More like Gasol playing.



All this Gasol talk is putting me to  

lol- catch ya guys later


----------



## spartanfan2003 (Jul 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>HAWK23</b>!
> Top 25 players play injured


He played injured, that was my point. But he obviously wasn't as good as a healthy Gasol. Shaq and Carter didn't play hurt.


----------



## spartanfan2003 (Jul 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>HAWK23</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Would you rather that we talk about the great Eddie Curry? LOL! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:


----------



## Arclite (Nov 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>HAWK23</b>!
> 
> 
> This is why the public should not be involved in the voting... the media could vote him in and he could show his stuff and would become VERY WELL-KNOWN to the public... but this is another subject for another day.


You are being pretty naive if you think people are going to watch the all-star games if it's Ricky Davis vs. Gerald Wallace just because they're young and exciting. Look at what's happened to the dunk contest the last couple of years.



> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> 
> 
> Taking Hamilton over Davis would be an AWFUL decision. All Hamilton does is shoot mid-range jumpers. Davis can shoot the three, hit mid-range shots, and take it to the rack with AUTHORITY!


Do you even watch Hamilton play? Hamilton takes it to the rack all the time. Players constantly complain about having to guard Hamilton because he is ALWAYS running off screens and if you give him half an inch he's going to hit a jumper in your face.

But I guess the player who's #1 in the _entire NBA_ in free throw attempts per 48 minutes just sits around and shoots open jumpers.


----------



## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Spartanfan2003</b>!
> 
> 
> Hey the Lakers suck! Why do you consider Kobe any good if he can't win? Yeah that's what I thought. Don't be a hipocrit.


Spelling error...hypocrit 

Lakers suck?


----------



## spartanfan2003 (Jul 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> 
> 
> Spelling error...hypocrit


HAHA!


----------



## rynobot (Oct 10, 2002)

Ricky Davis won't be on the All-Star team. Very rarley do players on losing teams ever make it. Elton Brand made it last year only because Shaq didn't play.


----------



## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

Vince Carter probably won't play.


----------



## Chops (May 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> 
> 
> Spelling error...hypocrit


LOL, you spelled it wrong too. :laugh:


----------



## spartanfan2003 (Jul 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rynobot</b>!
> Ricky Davis won't be on the All-Star team. Very rarley do players on losing teams ever make it. Elton Brand made it last year only because Shaq didn't play.


And if Shaq doesn't this year, who do you have as the next best C's? 

Ming
Gasol
Kandi
Bradley

pick two


----------



## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>KC</b>!
> 
> 
> LOL, you spelled it wrong too. :laugh:


I know, that's the joke.


----------



## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Spartanfan2003</b>!
> 
> 
> And if Shaq doesn't this year, who do you have as the next best C's?
> ...


Gasol is really a PF. He's too weak to play C.


----------



## Chops (May 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> 
> 
> I know, that's the joke.


Suuuuuuuuuuuure.


----------



## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>KC</b>!
> 
> 
> Suuuuuuuuuuuure.


Correct spelling...hypocrite.

I put a wink next to it...maybe you didn't notice.:yes:


----------



## spartanfan2003 (Jul 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> 
> 
> Gasol is really a PF. He's too weak to play C.


Is that why he starts at C over a 7-3 guy and a 6-11 banger?


----------



## Chops (May 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> 
> 
> Correct spelling...hypocrite.
> ...


Yeah, I noticed that you put it after my last post.  

I see you ran to a dictionary.


----------



## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Spartanfan2003</b>!
> 
> 
> Is that why he starts at C over a 7-3 guy and a 6-11 banger?


He's still a true PF, I don't care if he starts at C...he's playing out of position.


----------



## spartanfan2003 (Jul 12, 2002)

So far on the Grizz board, 3 out of 3 posters think that Gasol is a top 20 player.


----------



## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>KC</b>!
> 
> 
> Yeah, I noticed that you put it after my last post.
> ...


What's a dikshonary?

WHAT?! After your last post?! HAHAHAHAHA! It was there all the time. LMAO.


----------



## spartanfan2003 (Jul 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> 
> 
> He's still a true PF, I don't care if he starts at C...he's playing out of position.


West said that he would not play any players out of position. This is where he will play for the rest of his career, so get used to it!


----------



## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Spartanfan2003</b>!
> So far on the Grizz board, 3 out of 3 posters think that Gasol is a top 20 player.


You're point? It's not like they are basketball analysts.


----------



## rynobot (Oct 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Spartanfan2003</b>!
> 
> 
> And if Shaq doesn't this year, who do you have as the next best C's?
> ...


Ming and Gasol, even though I don't consider Gasol a true Center.


----------



## spartanfan2003 (Jul 12, 2002)

People, Gasol will be a C for the rest of his career, so you should all get used to it.


----------



## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Spartanfan2003</b>!
> 
> 
> West said that he would not play any players out of position. This is where he will play for the rest of his career, so get used to it!


He is a PF, where did West say that? DO you seriously think Gasol wants to play C to guard Ming, Kandi, Ilgauskas or Shaq? He is a PF, he has the size of a PF.

I DON'T CARE IF HE PLAYS CENTER, HE IS A PF!


----------



## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rynobot</b>!
> 
> Ming and Gasol, even though I don't consider Gasol a true Center.


Exactly. If we consider Gasol a C, we can consider Duncan a C.


----------



## rynobot (Oct 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Spartanfan2003</b>!
> People, Gasol will be a C for the rest of his career, so you should all get used to it.


If you want a 220lbs center then that is you, In my opinion he is not a true center. So stop trying to convert me!


----------



## spartanfan2003 (Jul 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> 
> 
> He is a PF, where did West say that? DO you seriously think Gasol wants to play C to guard Ming, Kandi, Ilgauskas or Shaq? He is a PF, he has the size of a PF.
> ...


He has gained over 30 pounds, I don't feel like searching all over for a JWest quote, and he has gaurded all of them and in press conferences he has said that he likes playing C. GET USED TO IT.


----------



## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

I'm going to change the name of this thread


----------



## rynobot (Oct 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> 
> 
> Exactly. If we consider Gasol a C, we can consider Duncan a C.


Duncan is a center that is playing PF.


----------



## Devestata (May 29, 2002)

My gosh, I thought Gasol was a SF!


----------



## spartanfan2003 (Jul 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rynobot</b>!
> 
> 
> If you want a 220lbs center then that is you, In my opinion he is not a true center. So stop trying to convert me!


He is gaining weight by the day. When he came in, he was even smaller. They have him on serious weight training! And I could careless if I can "convert" you.


----------



## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

LOL, exactly. He is a PF, SF.


----------



## Arclite (Nov 2, 2002)

Spartanfan, two things:

a) Can we PLEASE go one damn thread without hearing about the Pau Gasol or the Grizzlies? I know you like them a lot, but talk about someone else please.

b) If you ARE going to talk about the Grizzlies, at least know that for a while now Wright has been starting at Center for Memphis.


----------



## rynobot (Oct 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Spartanfan2003</b>!
> 
> 
> He has gained over 30 pounds, I don't feel like searching all over for a JWest quote, and he has gaurded all of them and in press conferences he has said that he likes playing C. GET USED TO IT.


Ok, when I see Gasolm power down any 250 lb center in the post then I'll consider him a true center, untill then I'm gonna call him a Foward.


----------



## spartanfan2003 (Jul 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> LOL, exactly. He is a PF, SF.


WTH!!!!!!!! HE HAS NEVER PLAYED SF IN HIS NBA CAREER!


----------



## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Spartanfan2003</b>!
> He is gaining weight by the day. When he came in, he was even smaller. They have him on serious weight training!


Gaining weight every day?! Wow, he should get that checked out! That isn't healthy at all!


----------



## Devestata (May 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Spartanfan2003</b>!
> 
> 
> He is gaining weight by the day. When he came in, he was even smaller. They have him on serious weight training! And I could careless if I can "convert" you.


By the day? Literally?


----------



## spartanfan2003 (Jul 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Devestata</b>!
> My gosh, I thought Gasol was a SF!


NO WAY! HE HAS NEVER PLAYED SF! WHEN MING CAME TO MEMPHIS, DO YOU KNOW WHAT THE HEADLINES WERE? 

PAU VS. YAO!


----------



## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Sovereignz</b>!
> Spartanfan, two things:
> 
> a) Can we PLEASE go one damn thread without hearing about the Pau Gasol or the Grizzlies? I know you like them a lot, but talk about someone else please.
> ...


I know, Spartan, we're friends and all...but you include Gasol and the Grizzlies in every damn thread. LOL


----------



## spartanfan2003 (Jul 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Devestata</b>!
> 
> 
> By the day? Literally?


You know what I mean.


----------



## Devestata (May 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> 
> 
> Gaining weight every day?! Wow, he should get that checked out! That isn't healthy at all!


:laugh: :laugh:


----------



## rynobot (Oct 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Spartanfan2003</b>!
> 
> 
> He is gaining weight by the day. When he came in, he was even smaller. They have him on serious weight training! And I could careless if I can "convert" you.


You say you care less yet all you're doing is preaching about how he is gaining weight and West says he is a Center for the rest of his career. If you don't care about convincing us then why are you still talking about Gasol being a center, just move on!


----------



## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Spartanfan2003</b>!
> 
> 
> NO WAY! HE HAS NEVER PLAYED SF! WHEN MING CAME TO MEMPHIS, DO YOU KNOW WHAT THE HEADLINES WERE?
> ...


That's because Pau is the best player on the Grizzlies, Yao was the first pick in the draft, and their names rhyme!


----------



## Devestata (May 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Spartanfan2003</b>!
> 
> 
> You know what I mean.


Yeah, I'm just joking around. No matter what spot Gasol plays in the NBA, can we all agree he will be good? Jeesh.


----------



## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

Ok, but he definitely isn't a Top 25 Player, like Ricky Davis.


----------



## rynobot (Oct 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Spartanfan2003</b>!
> 
> 
> WTH!!!!!!!! HE HAS NEVER PLAYED SF IN HIS NBA CAREER!


This is bull[strike]flop[/strike], he played SF last year when Wright was at center and Swift was a PF.

*Please do not mask!*

Devestata.


----------



## spartanfan2003 (Jul 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Sovereignz</b>!
> Spartanfan, two things:
> 
> a) Can we PLEASE go one damn thread without hearing about the Pau Gasol or the Grizzlies? I know you like them a lot, but talk about someone else please.
> ...


:naughty:


----------



## spartanfan2003 (Jul 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rynobot</b>!
> 
> 
> This is bullflop, he played SF last year when Wright was at center and Swift was a PF.


Untrue.


----------



## Devestata (May 29, 2002)

Ok, seriously guys, watch it. I don't wanna have to start editing this thread.:sigh:


----------



## spartanfan2003 (Jul 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Devestata</b>!
> Ok, seriously guys, watch it. I don't wanna have to start editing this thread.:sigh:


Gotcha, but people should seriously know what they are talking about before they speak. I have held office season tickets for the last two years and Gasol has never played SF, and he has played more C than PF.


----------



## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

All I'm saying is...Ricky Davis is Top 25, Gasol isn't.


----------



## rynobot (Oct 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Spartanfan2003</b>!
> 
> 
> HE HAS NEVER DONE SUCH! :upset:


I've seen him play SF, and every Basketball website lists him as a Foward, meaning he plays both foward positions.


----------



## spartanfan2003 (Jul 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rynobot</b>!
> 
> 
> I've seen him play SF, and every Basketball website lists him as a Foward, meaning he plays both foward positions.


Buddy, when going into his R season, everyone listed him at SF, he never played it. [strike]Get your eyes checked.[/strike]

*Please no insulting! Thanks, Devestata.*


----------



## rynobot (Oct 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Spartanfan2003</b>!
> 
> 
> Gotcha, but people should seriously know what they are talking about before they speak. I have held office season tickets for the last two years and Gasol has never played SF, and he has played more C than PF.


[strike]Office season tickets? You're what 16 years old what office is that teh Principal's OFfice?[/strike]

*Do not insult others please! Thanks, Devestata.*


----------



## Arclite (Nov 2, 2002)

Start another thread if you must continue to debate about Pau, PLEASE.


----------



## spartanfan2003 (Jul 12, 2002)

to Ryno -
If you want, I could get Don Poyer to E-mail you on how he is not a SF.


----------



## rynobot (Oct 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Spartanfan2003</b>!
> 
> 
> Buddy, when going into his R season, everyone listed him at SF, he never played it. Get your eyes checked.


he has the skills of a Foward not a Center. So the Grizz are playing a 3 Foward lineup, just because Gasol is the tallest foward of the three doesn't make him a Center.


----------



## spartanfan2003 (Jul 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rynobot</b>!
> 
> 
> [strike]Office season tickets? You're what 16 years old what office is that teh Principal's OFfice?[/strike]
> ...


Haha, very funny. I work, but that is not where I got em. My dad's company gave him some before he retied, and I got em from him.


----------



## spartanfan2003 (Jul 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rynobot</b>!
> 
> 
> he has the skills of a Foward not a Center. So the Grizz are playing a 3 Foward lineup, just because Gasol is the tallest foward of the three doesn't make him a Center.


Ok, like said before, lets start another thread. This is strictly Ricky talk.


----------



## Devestata (May 29, 2002)

Guys we're getting off topic now! :sigh:


----------



## spartanfan2003 (Jul 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Devestata</b>!
> Guys we're getting off topic now! :sigh:


Sorry for making you stress Devestata, won't happen ever again. I promise.


----------



## Devestata (May 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Spartanfan2003</b>!
> 
> Sorry for making you stress Devestata, won't happen ever again. I promise.


It's ok Spartfan...let's get back on topic. No worries, let's hear some more opinions on Ricky Davis!


----------



## Chops (May 30, 2002)

Ricky Davis is not a star.


----------



## Devestata (May 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>KC</b>!
> Ricky Davis is not a star.


OK, I agree KC. Still, do you think he has the chance to become a star, and do you think he's being forced to take too many shots in Cleveland?


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## Chops (May 30, 2002)

He has a chance, but he has to remain on this level for a few more years, and lead his team out of the abyss.


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## JOHNNY_BRAVisimO (Jun 11, 2002)

rickey davis isnt a star YET. but id rather have him then jalen rose.

give the cavs this year to build their on-court chemistry and next year they are a 38 win team. davis should make the all star team next year.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

Hell, Ricky Davis may not be a star, but for what he is doing for the Cavs, he deserves to be on the team. 

It doesn't matter how the Cavs are doing, it should be individual play that earns you a spot on the All-Star Team. And Davis has been one hell of a player this year.


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## Wiggum (Jul 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>KC</b>!
> Ricky Davis is not a star.


Now, that we're not talking about Pau Gasol....

I agree.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

But he should be an All-Star.


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## rynobot (Oct 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> But he should be an All-Star.


You keep saying this but you never say why. Players on losing teams never get an all-star spot over a player on a winning team even if there stats are a little bit better.


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## jvanbusk (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> 
> 
> Taking Hamilton over Davis would be an AWFUL decision. All Hamilton does is shoot mid-range jumpers. Davis can shoot the three, hit mid-range shots, and take it to the rack with AUTHORITY!


Clevelands record: 6-24

Detroits record: 18-8

Ricky Davis and Richard Hamilton put up very similar stats per 48 minutes. In fact, Rip is one of the league leaders in points per 48 minutes. So whereas Ricky Davis has been able to lead his team to a 6-24 record, Richard Hamilton has been able to lead his team to near the top of the Eastern Conference. This is why it would not be an awful decision to take Rip over Ricky Davis. I'm not sure of too many GM's in the league that would trade Richard Hamilton for Ricky Davis straight up. I know Joe Dumars wouldn't. 

With that said, I don't think either of these players is a top 25 player in the NBA right now. Both have the potential to be, though. However, I do think Ben Wallace is a top 25 player.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rynobot</b>!
> 
> 
> You keep saying this but you never say why. Players on losing teams never get an all-star spot over a player on a winning team even if there stats are a little bit better.


I have said why about a hundred times in this thread. People just don't listen to my arguments.


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## p (Jul 17, 2002)

i agree... Ricky Davis should be an all-star based on individual performance... should he start in the all star game, prolly not...

peace


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

Exactly, I never said he should be a starter, but he deserves to be on the bench, based on individual performance.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

*Ricky Davis (2002-2003 Season)* 
MPG: 39.5
PPG: 23.5
RPG: 4.4
APG: 4.4
SPG: 1.64
BPG: 0.39
FG%: .435
3P%: .440
FT%: .757

Those are All-Star numbers.


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## spartanfan2003 (Jul 12, 2002)

MAN! ARE WE STILL TALKIN BOUT THIS!?!??!


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## JOHNNY_BRAVisimO (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>jvanbusk</b>!
> 
> 
> Clevelands record: 6-24
> ...



now that i think about it, RIP is an inferrior player to stackhouse yet is leading the pistons in scoring while they are way up there in the eastern conference, what influence has RIP had with winning in detroit that Rickey Davis couldnt?

remember how in the begining of the season we were all laughing at how stupid a trade it was to get RIP for stackhouse? look whos laughing now, i have no doubt that rickey davis could be doing the same thing if he was traded for RIP right now.

so to blame rickey davis for the Cavs record isnt accurate, the coach probably has more to do with it. the cavs and pistons are real close talent-wise but coach carlisle is the reason for the pistons success. so why penalize rickey davis for playing on such a bad team?


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

In reply to KC's earlier post. I do feel Ricky Davis is an all-star this season. As far as his earlier post of name a Star that was on a losing team *STEVE FRANCIS* last season and the season before that. There are not 12 Shooting guards playing better than him in the east. Just because he has a bad attitude doesnt disqualify his game and with him avg close th 5 assts and 5rbs. solidifies that. It is not his fault Cleavleand(sp?) is as bad as they are. The whole league knows that they are not trying to win so that there is a terrible excuse. I honestly do feel he is trying to win because a few of the incidents earlier in the season were because he didnt feel the team was trying to win. If you like KC I have names of quite a few STARS who teams were not good!!!!!!!


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## jvanbusk (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>JOHNNY_BRAVisimO</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Fact: Rip has led his team to a great record in the same division as Rickey Davis while putting up very similar numbers. 

Fact: Rip scores at a higher rate than Rickey Davis. Check points per 48 minutes.

Speculation: Rickey Davis could do the same thing with the Pistons that Rip does.

I'm not out to penalize Rickey Davis for playing on a bad team. In fact, he's a very good player in my book. But, if I had to choose for the All-star game I would choose Richard Hamilton over him. And I don't think that would be an "awful decision".


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

Why the hell are you people continuing this argument on Christmas Day?!

Don't you have something to do?

At least watch the basketball on ABC.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

*ricky davis should not be an all star*

at shooting guard in the east there is iverson pierce t-mac,and ray allen 

plus stackhouse, hamilton, houston ,eddie jones,artest, and oh yeah davis

the 1st group are locks at the shooting guard spot and the 2nd would be at least considered in the west 

but this is the east and none of that 2nd group is on par with the 1st and none of them are so earth shattering in game that the east should feel obligated to put in a 5th shooting guard in fact its really debatable that allen should even be considered for a 4th spot 

so unless people here think that davis is in the class of iverson t-mac and pierce 

the answer is of couse no he shouldn't be on the all-star team


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## JOHNNY_BRAVisimO (Jun 11, 2002)

*Re: ricky davis should not be an all star*



> Originally posted by <b>happygrinch</b>!
> at shooting guard in the east there is iverson pierce t-mac,and ray allen
> 
> plus stackhouse, hamilton, houston ,eddie jones,artest, and oh yeah davis
> ...


actually i think by next season the cavs should have a _decent _ record, and rickey davis will start to be compared to a young spreewell. but until then its all moot.


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## JOHNNY_BRAVisimO (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> Why the hell are you people continuing this argument on Christmas Day?!
> 
> Don't you have something to do?
> ...


i have a PC and a TV in the same room .


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## Mongolmike (Jun 11, 2002)

*Christmas? Christmas!?!*



> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> Why the hell are you people continuing this argument on Christmas Day?!
> 
> Don't you have something to do?


OH MAN! It's Christmas TODAY????? Gotta run, I gotta get my shopping started!!!!!!!!!!

Oh, by the way.... as a Cavs fan, I DO NOT think Ricky should be on this years's ALL Star team. I do however think Z should tho.... but that's off topic.


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## Chops (May 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BEEZ</b>!
> In reply to KC's earlier post. I do feel Ricky Davis is an all-star this season. As far as his earlier post of name a Star that was on a losing team *STEVE FRANCIS* last season and the season before that. There are not 12 Shooting guards playing better than him in the east. Just because he has a bad attitude doesnt disqualify his game and with him avg close th 5 assts and 5rbs. solidifies that. It is not his fault Cleavleand(sp?) is as bad as they are. The whole league knows that they are not trying to win so that there is a terrible excuse. I honestly do feel he is trying to win because a few of the incidents earlier in the season were because he didnt feel the team was trying to win. If you like KC I have names of quite a few STARS who teams were not good!!!!!!!




Read again. I didn't say just on a losing team. I said on a dreadful team. IE, worst in the league.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>jvanbusk</b>!
> Fact: Rip has led his team to a great record in the same division as Rickey Davis while putting up very similar numbers.
> Fact: Rip scores at a higher rate than Rickey Davis. Check points per 48 minutes.


That points per 48 minutes is very overrated. By the way Rip Hamilton only plays 1.6 mins less than Ricky Davis


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## jvanbusk (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BEEZ</b>!
> 
> 
> That points per 48 minutes is very overrated. By the way Rip Hamilton only plays 1.6 mins less than Ricky Davis


You need to check that again. 

Rip Hamilton: 31.7 minutes per game
Ricky Davis: 39.5 minutes per game

I don't see how Rip would have any problem scoring 3 more points in almost 8 more minutes. That's 3/4 of a quarter! Also, I think points per 48 minutes is a pretty good gauge of how scorers stack up against each other, when they don't play equal minutes.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> Why the hell are you people continuing this argument on Christmas Day?!
> 
> Don't you have something to do?
> ...


This was a joke by the way, I should've put a smiley.


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## Wink (May 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> Hell, Ricky Davis may not be a star...but he deserves to be on the (allstar) team.


could you have contradicted yourself anymore in that post? You say that he is not a star and then say that he deserves a spot on the allstar team. there are many good players who will not make the team. I personally like Ricky Davis great player, but I don't see him having the ability to lead his team to the play-off's. Not because he isn't a good player but because he might not get the opportunity. If the Cav's get Lebron in the draft, and then next year or the year after they make the play-offs you know who is going to get the credit for that. Also in his market(Cleveland) it's not necessarily a market where stars are born. Look at the players who are considered the elite in the NBA Kobe(LA), Vince(Toronto), T-MAC(Orlando). What do all of these players have in common they all play in major markets. Great players who play in small markets such as Allen(Milwaukee), Gasol(Memphis), Terry/Rahim/Robbinson(Atlanta) are all great players but do not get the exposure because of the market they play in I think that Davis will end up in the same category as the 2nd group I mentioned, not because he doesn't have the skill, but because, he won't be given the opportunity or exposure to shine.


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## p (Jul 17, 2002)

wow, this is a pretty big topic... how about one of the MODS make a poll on the main page... oh, something like...

Should Ricky Davis make the all-star team?

Yes

No

i suppose you can make more like "No, but blahblahblah" but i think the essential question is stated above...

sound like a good idea?


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>jvanbusk</b>!
> 
> 
> You need to check that again.
> ...


LOL you right about the minutes, but to go against your statement about pts per 48 mins. that's like saying Mateen Cleaves plays 6 minutes and scores 4.5 pts a game. Over 48 minutes its gonna come out to big numbers but in reality everyone knows hes not gonna put those kind of numbers up. So its not a good gauge of a players worth. Rip will never be a big time scorer in this league. Its a reason he doesnt play in the 4th quarter much


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## Chops (May 30, 2002)

I think it is useful when measuring players who are nearly equal. Of course you can't compare Davis and Cleaves, but Hamilton and Davis make for a good, valuable comparison.


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## jvanbusk (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BEEZ</b>!
> 
> 
> LOL you right about the minutes, but to go against your statement about pts per 48 mins. that's like saying Mateen Cleaves plays 6 minutes and scores 4.5 pts a game. Over 48 minutes its gonna come out to big numbers but in reality everyone knows hes not gonna put those kind of numbers up. So its not a good gauge of a players worth. Rip will never be a big time scorer in this league. Its a reason he doesnt play in the 4th quarter much


While that may be true about Mateen's situation, it is not the question at hand. I think most people would agree that with 8 more minutes, Richard Hamilton could score 3 more points. Therefore he scores at a higher rate than Ricky Davis. Personally, I think Rip should play more in the 4th, but that's Rick Carlisles decision. He'll light it up for 3 quarters and sit the entire 4th which I think hurts Detroit, but we're winning so I'm not going to go against that. But the fact remains that with equal minutes Richard Hamilton would score more points than Ricky Davis. In fact, Rip is third in the league for points per 48 minutes. And it's not because he's playing 8 minutes per game and scoring 5. He's playing 30+ and dropping 20+ a night. That's a pretty good ratio, and better than Ricky Davis who needs almost 40 a night to score 23.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b></b>!
> 
> 
> could you have contradicted yourself anymore in that post? You say that he is not a star and then say that he deserves a spot on the allstar team. there are many good players who will not make the team. I personally like Ricky Davis great player, but I don't see him having the ability to lead his team to the play-off's. Not because he isn't a good player but because he might not get the opportunity. If the Cav's get Lebron in the draft, and then next year or the year after they make the play-offs you know who is going to get the credit for that. Also in his market(Cleveland) it's not necessarily a market where stars are born. Look at the players who are considered the elite in the NBA Kobe(LA), Vince(Toronto), T-MAC(Orlando). What do all of these players have in common they all play in major markets. Great players who play in small markets such as Allen(Milwaukee), Gasol(Memphis), Terry/Rahim/Robbinson(Atlanta) are all great players but do not get the exposure because of the market they play in I think that Davis will end up in the same category as the 2nd group I mentioned, not because he doesn't have the skill, but because, he won't be given the opportunity or exposure to shine.


Peja Stojakovic isn't a star, he made the All-Star Team, same with Szczerbiak, and a lot of other guys.

These guys have persuaded me to think that he isn't a star (he's an upcoming star), but I still think he deserves to be on the All-Star team.


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## Chops (May 30, 2002)

Those guys were on winning teams at least.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

But they didn't do nearly as much as Ricky Davis, and they don't have close to as much talent as Davis has.


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## Chops (May 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> But they didn't do nearly as much as Ricky Davis, and they don't have close to as much talent as Davis has.


As far as doing as much, one could argue that 20+ points on a contender is much more than Davis has ever done. As far as talent, that is debatable.


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## Chops (May 30, 2002)

Peja- 21.2 points, 5.30 rebounds, 4.20 assists (on a contending team)

*I have no clue how Ricky Davis is doing more that what Peja did last season.

Wally- 18.7 points, 4.80 rebounds, 3.30 assists, 50.8 FG %

*Not bad for being second fiddle to KG. Still a valuable contributor to a contending team


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

Peja was one of SEVERAL great players on that Sac-Town team. They made it easier for him by drawing defenders away from the basket.

Being on a winning team doesn't mean you'll be an All-Star. The Kings could easily win without Peja as they are so deep. Of course it helps your chances, but you can't rule out someone because they're on a losing team.

All-Stars are great players, Davis is a great player. Davis IS the Cavaliers, he is doing a lot more for the Cavs than what Peja did for the Kings.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>KC</b>!
> 
> 
> As far as doing as much, one could argue that 20+ points on a contender is much more than Davis has ever done. As far as talent, that is debatable.


Has Ricky Davis ever gotten PT on a winning team? No.


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## Chops (May 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> Peja was one of SEVERAL great players on that Sac-Town team. They made it easier for him by drawing defenders away from the basket.
> 
> Being on a winning team doesn't mean you'll be an All-Star. The Kings could easily win without Peja as they are so deep. Of course it helps your chances, but you can't rule out someone because they're on a losing team.
> ...


Again, that is completely debatable. What is he doing for the Cavs? Scoring points? Getting stats? He isn't winning games, that's for sure. He does have some good talent around him with Wagner, Ilgauskus, Miles, Boozer. Saying that "he is the Cavs" is a real stretch.

I never said that being on a winning team makes you an all-star. Don't know where you got that from. I think that if you are such a great player, you should be able to lead your team to more than 6 wins through 30 games.

For the record, I'm not saying that Peja is a great player. I'm saying that he put up numbers, much like Davis, but he did it for a contending team. Davis is doing it for a losing team, so it isn't hard to figure out why Peja got the nod and Davis most likely won't.


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## Chops (May 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> 
> 
> Has Ricky Davis ever gotten PT on a winning team? No.


 It isn't about what players would do if they were in different situations. It is about what you are doing with the cards that you have been dealt.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

Why is it a stretch?

Wagner is getting points, but he's shooting poorly and he's pretty on and off. Z is a good player, but he is on and off. And ever since Miles sat down, he hasn't done too much at all.

Davis is consistent. He is the Cavs. Without him, they wouldn't have won any games.

And of course they're a bad team, besides those guys there aren't many good players on the Cavs. You also have to consider Wagner, Parker and Boozer being Rookies and just getting used to the NBA game. Who do they have on their bench? Tyrone Hill is the best player on their bench for crying out loud!


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>KC</b>!
> 
> It isn't about what players would do if they were in different situations. It is about what you are doing with the cards that you have been dealt.


Peja just got lucky he is on a winning team. We'd be talking about him being in the same situation if he was on Cleveland. If you put Stojakovic on the Cavs, I guarantee you that they wouldn't win as many games as they would with Davis.


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## Chops (May 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> Why is it a stretch?
> 
> Wagner is getting points, but he's shooting poorly and he's pretty on and off. Z is a good player, but he is on and off. And ever since Miles sat down, he hasn't done too much at all.
> ...


It is a stretch because it isn't true. When Kobe doesn't have Shaq, he is the Lakers. Davis has several talented players around him, he isn't the Cavs. He is a good player on the team, perhaps the best, but he isn't their whole team.


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## Chops (May 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> 
> 
> Peja just got lucky he is on a winning team. We'd be talking about him being in the same situation if he was on Cleveland. If you put Stojakovic on the Cavs, I guarantee you that they wouldn't win as many games as they would with Davis.


How are you going to guarantee that? You aren't. Lets stick with reality. Reality is that Davis is putting up good numbers on a losing team. If roles were reversed, we don't know what would happen. There are no guarantees when you make assumptions.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>KC</b>!
> It is a stretch because it isn't true.


Oh, if you say it then you must be right.


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## jsa (Jul 16, 2002)

Dee Bo- Brilliant response. He'll be traded, suspended ,waived,and more before his "career" is over unless he grows up. He is EXACTLY what is going wrong in the NBA today. Wasted, immature talent. Spreewell is Einstein compared to this kid. What a shame.


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## Chops (May 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> 
> 
> Yeah, ok....you always make it sound like what you say is right.


I never said I was right. You said that Peja hasn't done as much as Davis. I brought in stats to disprove that. You brought opinion.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

I meant Peja hasn't had to CARRY a team like Davis has. Peja has put up SIMILAR numbers. But he has never been the best player on a team, or has had to be the guy that everyone depends on.

Yes, the Cavs are the worst team around him, but besides Davis and Z...who are the EXPERIENCED, fairly-consistent players on the Cavs? There aren't any.


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## Chops (May 30, 2002)

What is it worth, being "the guy," when you aren't even leading your team to a decent record? If they are depending on him to carry the team, it looks like they are depending on the wrong guy.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>KC</b>!
> What is it worth, being "the guy," when you aren't even leading your team to a decent record? If they are depending on him to carry the team, it looks like they are depending on the wrong guy.


I just explained why they are losing in my latest threads.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

Plus, it doesn't help when they trade Andre Miller and Lamond Murray for Darius Miles and Michael Stewart.


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## rynobot (Oct 10, 2002)

The only thing Ricky Davis is leading the Cavs to is LeBron James.


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## Chops (May 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rynobot</b>!
> The only thing Ricky Davis is leading the Cavs to is LeBron James.


LOL, agreed. :laugh:


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## rynobot (Oct 10, 2002)

And once they get LeBron James Ricky Davis will be traded to some stupid team who thinks that he can score 22 points for them and lead them to the playoffs. He'll be that "missing" peice of the puzzle and some sorry team will be robbed of a good young player, probably Krause.


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## Chops (May 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rynobot</b>!
> And once they get LeBron James Ricky Davis will be traded to some stupid team who thinks that he can score 22 points for them and lead them to the playoffs. He'll be that "missing" peice of the puzzle and some sorry team will be robbed of a good young player, probably Krause.


LMAO.  

Krause is a dunce.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rynobot</b>!
> The only thing Ricky Davis is leading the Cavs to is LeBron James.


Not like he's getting any help from Jim Paxson.

You aren't blaming Davis are you? He's one of the very few decent players they've got. *C'mon, you know better than that*


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rynobot</b>!
> And once they get LeBron James Ricky Davis will be traded to some stupid team who thinks that he can score 22 points for them and lead them to the playoffs. He'll be that "missing" peice of the puzzle and some sorry team will be robbed of a good young player, probably Krause.


Have you been asleep this year? Davis has proven that he's a good player.

If anyone will be traded it will probably be Miles.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>jsa</b>!
> Dee Bo- Brilliant response. He'll be traded, suspended ,waived,and more before his "career" is over unless he grows up. He is EXACTLY what is going wrong in the NBA today. Wasted, immature talent. Spreewell is Einstein compared to this kid. What a shame.



Thanks

Cant believe this is still being argued. 

Davis really reminds me of Isaih Rider 2nd Edition. Good scorer with a bad attitude.

Davis doesnt excel at anything besides scoring and he does not deserve to be on the All-Star team.

Besides, there arent enough people he could possibly be picked over at either guard or forward, so it is a moot point.


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