# Will Bibby ever be an All-Star?



## KTLuvsMikeBibby (Jul 28, 2003)

I think he probably will..the only other West pgs that are definitely better than him at the moment IMO are Marbury, Francis, and Payton...Nash is debatable, but I think he's overrated. The only west SGs that are better than him are Kobe and Ray Allen. When Payton retires, it'll be easier for him. Who knows though, he could have a breakout year this season and make it this year. If not, I say he still will sometime in the next 3 seasons.


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## Cam*Ron (Apr 13, 2003)

He has Stephon Marbury, Gary Payton, Steve Nash and Steve Francis to beat out for sure. I definitely don't think he will be voted in, but if one of those PG's goes down then he will get called up, if they don't go down then he will just be a spectator.

All of those PG's I mentioned do everything better than him and they all played in the game last year.


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## RoddneyThaRippa (Jun 28, 2003)

Considering his backup is better than him? Hopefully not. And considering he's in the West he probably won't get there.


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## Cam*Ron (Apr 13, 2003)

And plus Baron Davis the 04-05 season, so it doesn't look good.:no:


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## RoddneyThaRippa (Jun 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Bunk 22</b>!
> And plus Baron Davis the 04-05 season, so it doesn't look good.:no:


Good point. Finally Bibby will be exposed for the fake he is.


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## MJG (Jun 29, 2003)

People are just listing PGs, but he has to beat out SGs too. All-star games only view things by G/F/C. I could see him being a possible injury sub if two guards get knocked out, but that's about it. He's not a bad player at all, but definitely not all-star caliber.


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## Ben1 (May 20, 2003)

Bibby can only be an All-star if...

1) he get called up as a replacement (when the original All-star guard(s) is/are injured).

2) he moves to Eastern Conference to play (it'll still be hard)

3) he has a break-out year.

No way can he be all-star if he remains to play at this standard (when even Bobby Jackson (his back-up) plays better than him). He will not have any chance of making it as an All-star starter (not popular enuff) so he'll need to make the all-star team based on his performance in the regular season.


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## Muffin (Feb 11, 2003)

another player that hasn't been mentioned is Nick Van Exel. With his trade to G.S., he will be a starter and put up monster numbers. His PPG and APG is and will be better than Bibby's.

Guards that are better than Bibby imo (in no particular order):
1. NVE
2. Franchise
3. Kobe
4. GP
5. Marbury
6. Ray Allen
7. Finley (will play solely at SG w/ addition of Jamison)

A case can be made for Cassell and Sprewell since coming out to the West. It's gonna be interesting to see how that team plays together :yes: 

I can't see Bibby cracking All Star status anytime soon. He's a better playoff player than regular season player and the All Star is based on the regular season.


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## beb0p (Jul 15, 2002)

For guards fans generally go for those flashy dunkers or high scorer. Players like Francis, Cassell, or Marbury are ball hogs who are too short to play SGs. They won't take their teams to the next level but they are fun to watch in an All-Star game. 

Bibby is a better shooter, clutch performer, and overall better floor general than most western PGs except maybe Nash. But how many times have you seen him dunk? I rest my case. I say at the most, he makes it one time.


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## Petey (Aug 23, 2002)

The guard position is stacked with bigger guards, and points. He would need to have a bust out year, and then some luck.

-Petey


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## MJG (Jun 29, 2003)

Unless he plays like he did in the playoffs two years ago over the course of a whole season, no.


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## Sportarium (Sep 3, 2003)

No way, unless 2 pg's get injured, but then again, it would not be an earned trip.


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## Petey (Aug 23, 2002)

It's not only about being a pg, remember guards are voted upon out of the same slot. Like in the East, if Carter and T-Mac were voted, one would have to play the point guard even if they didn't for their team (that is just an example). Besides alot of good point guards, there are excellent off guards.

-Petey


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## kb8gw32003 (Sep 10, 2003)

Maybe in the future. I don't see it happening anytime soon!


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## Peja Vu (Jun 9, 2002)

Didn't want to make a new thread so I figured I would post it here:

Bibby an All-Star? 



> Given the Kings' league-best record and Mike Bibby's steadiness throughout the season, he might have a chance to make his first All-Star team. Bibby's competition dwindled this week when Phoenix traded point guard Stephon Marbury to New York.
> 
> But Bibby said the All-Star team is not one of his goals.
> 
> ...


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## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

> Considering his backup is better than him? Hopefully not. And considering he's in the West he probably won't get there.


Thats just ridiculous, we all see how Ginobli plays when he starts, same with Bobby, number two, Bobby is instant offense, for himself, however he doesnt make the other people around him better, which is why Bibby has double the assists Jackson does even tho they have almost the same minutes, Bibby is calm, great in the stretch, and plays the pick and roll with C Webb better than anyone in the NBA



> Good point. Finally Bibby will be exposed for the fake he is.


Fake? Fake? Whats fake about him? 17 points and 5 assists a game isnt fake in my view, he doesnt shoot nearly as much as the other pg's, he does what he needs to do to win, we all see how Payton is doing with the Lakers when they have missing players, same for Baron Davis, and Francis? Hes just a name this year, !Hes averaging 17 points a game and 5 assists hmm those are Bibbys numbers, but wait Franices shoots 39% averages way more shots than Bibby and shoots 29% from three land , hmm Bibby shoots 45% and 39% from three land...whos numbers are better, plus Francis gets more minutes which = more points, but its Francis you see with the dunks, its Francis you see with the steal and the flashy plays, so before you say Francis is better take a look at the numbers...

And who is NVE?


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## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

And he is third in the league in turnovers...


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## ElevatorMan (Jan 8, 2004)

i think bibby is overraterd... did anyone care about him when he was in Vancouver... hell no... he is an above average point guard. everyone thinks that he is better then he is because of bill walton's constant praise of him..don't get me wrong he is good he is just not that good


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## Dragnsmke1 (Jul 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>SacKings384</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



NVE is the last PLAYER in the league you want to see with the ball when your team is up by 20 and hes trying to make a come back.

The Flip side of the coin is NVE is the last player on your team that you want to have the ball when your team is wining with seconds on the clock.

Hell shoot you back into a game but then hell shoot you right out of a game.


I will admit I fell for the Bibby hype when he destroyed the Lakers backcourt a couple of years ago. Hes not a bad PG but he doesnt really stand out either.


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## maKINGSofgreatness (Aug 17, 2003)

can bibby get some credit for running the most high powered offence in basketball? people will say that the big men do the passing but bibby averages more assists. he will never get voted in as a starter, but the coaches may apprieciate that. with the league's scoring down because of vone defense and shooters in high demand, you would think a sharpshooter at such an important position would be valued more...He doesnt shoot as much as other point guards, doesnt have to, and his whole team can pass, unlike others where no one else can (payton discluded here) Few TOs...I dont think he make it, but hes got a chance now that Stephon is gone. Im not even saying he should be, but it would be nice, maby people wouldnt call him the most overrated player ever so much, even though there are few better, and hes perfect for this team


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## bballer27 (Aug 21, 2003)

ya probably he will


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

Nope, even with Marbury gone he won't make it this year. 

Payton, Nash, Cassell, Francis and NVE are all better PGs than Bibby. Francis, I suppose, is the only one you could argue that isn't better than Bibby, but even then it's debateable knowing how much Bibby's on the ball and team defense has sucked this year compared to how well Francis locks up his player.


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## venturalakersfan (Jun 10, 2003)

Regarding the playoffs a couple of years ago, if Bibby had Derek Fisher guarding him for 82 games, he would not only be an all-star, but league MVP as well.


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## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

Fine whatever dont give Bibby his credit, but hes stepped up when a players out (Webber) because his sc oring has gone up his field goal percentage is up, his assists are up, his game is up, and Payton has gone down, hes only averaging 14 points a game, he doesnt play good defense anymore, he hasnt stepped up his game with Shaq and Malone out, and his team aint winning. So that knocks Marbury, Payton, and Francis off the list...


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>SacKings384</b>!
> Fine whatever dont give Bibby his credit, but hes stepped up when a players out (Webber) because his sc oring has gone up his field goal percentage is up, his assists are up, his game is up, and Payton has gone down, hes only averaging 14 points a game, he doesnt play good defense anymore, he hasnt stepped up his game with Shaq and Malone out, and his team aint winning. So that knocks Marbury, Payton, and Francis off the list...


Boy are you clueless.


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## DaUnbreakableKinG (Jun 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>EHL</b>!
> 
> 
> Boy are you clueless.


I guess I am clueless too EHL.  I also think Bibby is better than Glove.


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## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

> Boy are you clueless.


Prove me wrong, give me some hard stats that show that Bibby isnt as good as i say he is... Gimme some proof, im waiting, show me one hard fact that shows that he sucks, or hes not good enough to be an All-Star, prove it with the numbers, i did, why cant u...


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>SacKings384</b>!
> 
> 
> Prove me wrong, give me some hard stats that show that Bibby isnt as good as i say he is... Gimme some proof, im waiting, show me one hard fact that shows that he sucks, or hes not good enough to be an All-Star, prove it with the numbers, i did, why cant u...


It's kind of hard to prove something with numbers when different players have different roles on their teams. Using an argument such as "Payton only scores 14 ppg" doesn't even deserve a response, it's a totally ridiculous argument given Payton's reduced role in a stacked starting lineup where he simply can't score 20 ppg like he used to do in his sleep last season, when he didn't have Shaq, Malone and Kobe on the same team.

But go on, continue believing that Bibby is a better defender than Payton. :laugh:


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## solo (Nov 29, 2002)

Payton has done probably the most important thing to the laker this year....A FAST BREAK.


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## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

> It's kind of hard to prove something with numbers when different players have different roles on their teams. Using an argument such as "Payton only scores 14 ppg" doesn't even deserve a response, it's a totally ridiculous argument given Payton's reduced role in a stacked starting lineup where he simply can't score 20 ppg like he used to do in his sleep last season, when he didn't have Shaq, Malone and Kobe on the same team.





> But go on, continue believing that Bibby is a better defender than Payton.


O you mean the Cape? He aint the glove anymore... 
Lets look at the scores:
Francis:22 JASON HART:14
Cassel:26 Quentin:20
Boykins:22 Nash:30
Miller:20 Marbury:26
Marbury:31 Billups:24
Billups:29 Stoudamire:25
Davis:23 Van Exel+Speedy:32
Shannon Anderson:26 Eisley:26
Crawford:23 

Wow he shutting them down, i mean WOW, hes dominating, the only decent pg's in the NBA only average of 26 PPG, DOMINATION


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## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

> It's kind of hard to prove something with numbers when different players have different roles on their teams. Using an argument such as "Payton only scores 14 ppg" doesn't even deserve a response, it's a totally ridiculous argument given Payton's reduced role in a stacked starting lineup where he simply can't score 20 ppg like he used to do in his sleep last season, when he didn't have Shaq, Malone and Kobe on the same team.


O and Bibby doesnt have to give up PT to Jackson, and he doesnt have to PASS the ball? Considering that the Kings offense doesnt run through the PG... so let me get this straight, he lets the decent pg's score 26 ppg, so there goes the defense argument, he only scores 14ppg, so, what is his role? Apparently Bibby gets to jack up ALL the shots he wants to, he can just fire away, but no Payton Payton has to pass all the time, but funny, Bibby averages 1 more shots per game, hmm, so wheres your point excuse now? O and wait, Sacramento DEFINITELY doesnt have any offensive weapons, hes the best on the team, how in what way does Bibby have a different role than Payton, Bibby kicks it to big man, big man kicks it out to open man to make the shot... Hmm what offense does that sound like???


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>SacKings384</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You're not seriously this clueless, are you? How many players in the league can keep guys like Marbury, Cassell, or Billips in check? There's no shame in being done up by some of the best PGs in the L. Besides, Payton is barely guarding those guys half the time, Derek Fisher and/or Kobe are. Derek Fisher is probably the worst defending PG in the L, a lot of those points are gained when he's in the game. Phil likes to put Kobe on quicker point guards too because Kobe is quicker than Payton (duh), but the problem is Kobe's lateral movement isn't what it used to be last year because he's still trying to gain that movement back after knee surgery, hence even more of those points for those PGs. Payton is also getting no help defense whatsoever, he can't guard those guys by himself every minute of the game.  

And yet, I can still name games where the opposing PG didn't do so hot with Payton guarding them barely half the time: 

1. Nash: 8 points
2. Speedy: 3 points, Cheaney: 17 points
3. TJ Ford: 5 points
4. Jason Hart: 14 points
5. Wesley: 17 points
6. Jason Williams: 10 points
7. Wade: 10 points
8. Eisley: 13 points
9. Jason Willams: 3 points, Earl Watson: 4 points
10. Chris Witney: 11 points
11. Tony Parker: 12 points, Hart: 8 points
12. Kenny Anderson: 8 points
13. Tony Parker: 18 points, Hary: 2 points
14. Andre Miller: 11 points
15. Van Exel: 13 points
16. Jason Terry: 6 points

But what does it prove? Not much considering you clearly haven't closely watched enough Laker games to see just how much Payton is being done up, just how much he is playing good defense, and just how much he's not even in the game or guarding those PGs to begin with. Good job trying to use stats to prove your point though. :laugh:


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

Oh, and in case you're wondering, here's how well Bibby has guarded some of the best opposing PGs in the L so far this season:

1. LeBron: 25 points
2. Cassell: 26 points
3. Billips: 17 points
4. Stody: 17 points
5. Arroyo: 25 points
6. Kidd: 13 points, 10 assists, 3 steals, 
7. Cassell again: 26 points
8. Marbury: 22 points
9. Baron: 23 points
10. Jason Terry: 25 points
11. Steve Nash: 14 points, 11 assists

Stats prove everything, don't they? :laugh:


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## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

> Stats prove everything, don't they?


When did i ever use the Bibby being a good defender argument?


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>SacKings384</b>!
> 
> 
> When did i ever use the Bibby being a good defender argument?


You didn't. My point has been from the beginning that stats don't tell nearly enough of the story. For example, Bowen is a great perimeter defender, but it rarely shows up in many conventional stats such as steals per game, blocks per game, etc.


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## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

> You didn't. My point has been from the beginning that stats don't tell nearly enough of the story. For example, Bowen is a great perimeter defender, but it rarely shows up in many conventional stats such as steals per game, blocks per game, etc.


If your a good defender, it shows up, take for instance, Doug Christie, last year, every player he was matched up averaged less points than their normal PPG, or Ron Artest, the SF's that go against him average 7 PPG this year, so yes, it does show up in the stats...


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>SacKings384</b>!
> 
> 
> If your a good defender, it shows up, take for instance, Doug Christie, last year, every player he was matched up averaged less points than their normal PPG, or Ron Artest, the SF's that go against him average 7 PPG this year, so yes, it does show up in the stats...


In that case Spreewell dropped 23 in his face in the 1st Twolves-Kings meeting of the year and 37 in the next meeting, and Spreewell is averaging just over 18 ppg this season. Jason Richardson dropped 25 and then 31 on him (averaging just under 19 ppg for the season), Joe Johnson dropped 23 on him (averaging just over 13 ppg for the season), Quentin Richardson dropped 21 on him (averaging just under 18 ppg this season), and even freaking Deshawn Stevenson dropped 21 on him (averaging just over 12 ppg on the season). I didn't want to waste my time finding more. 

Honestly, what in bloody hell are you talking about, how can you not fathom the fact that the defensive prowess of a guard rarely shows in stats (even steals per game)?


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## Nevus (Jun 3, 2003)

I don't think Bibby is the type of player that is featured well in the All-Star game. He's more than anything a team player and the All-Star Team is not much of a team. 

His strengths, shooting, leadership, running an offense, are not what the All-Star Game is about. But I'm very happy that he's on the Olympic team and I wouldn't take anyone else over him. He provides the things that the team needs in their point guard as well as anybody can. And that's a much greater honor.


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## beb0p (Jul 15, 2002)

Very well said. I think guys like Francis and Cassell are more in tune with what the All-Star game is about -- showboating. But Bibby deserves to be on the team at some point. Many of the usual suspects like Francis, Nash, and Payton are having a sub-par year (by their standard of course).

But Bibby will get squeezed out by his own teammates. Brad Miller and Peja are going to play in LA. And you know coaches don't like to select three guys from the same team. They'll probably choose someone like Jason Richardson or Andre Miller just to have more team diversity.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Ben</b>!
> Bibby can only be an All-star if...
> 
> 2) he moves to Eastern Conference to play (it'll still be hard)


Negative. IF he cant beat out anybody out west hes surely not beating out anyone in the East where it is guard heavy


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## Peja Vu (Jun 9, 2002)

Bump

Jerry Reynolds jokes that if Bibby doesn't make the team, their should be an investigation into why he didn't make it. 

Many people on the NBA board are saying he should be an all-star, so what do you all think. Is he an All-Star this year?

Stats


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Peja Vu</b>!
> Bump
> 
> Jerry Reynolds jokes that if Bibby doesn't make the team, their should be an investigation into why he didn't make it.
> ...


No, he shouldn't. However, the reason why is, his game isn't measured in stats (especially in Adelman's system). Come playoff time, he gets way more responsibility and always steps up, but during the regular season it's the whole is greater than the sum of it's parts scenario going on here. Bibby defers to Peja, Webber and Miller, when he is the 2nd best player on the team, but he plays PG terrific for the Kings. He does what's asked of him.

I don't see him being an all-star is Adelman is his head coach, but like Terry Porter, he will play 15 years in the league and when his career is over, Kings fans will lament that they wish they had a PG like Bibby, when some no-name bum is his playing his position 10-15 years from now. 

Bibby is the man.


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## RSP83 (Nov 24, 2002)

I hope so. He's one player that I think doesn't need to be in an All-Star team to prove that he's an All-Star. With all respect to Chauncey Billups, but finding Bibby has never played in an All-Star game is like finding out Billups was once an NBA final MVP. It's just weird. (C'mon ... Magic, Bird, Thomas, Jordan, Hakeem, Shaq, Duncan, Billups? great accomplishment though)


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## Peja Vu (Jun 9, 2002)

One more bump:shy: 

If Kobe does in fact miss the all-star game, Bibby's chances of making the team are greatly improved.

He has been tearing things up the past few week...

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/mike_bibby/game_by_game_stats.html


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## SacTown16 (Feb 2, 2004)

Well I can certainly make a great argument as to why he should make the team in comparison to other western conference PG's:

1st in PPG: 18.4
2nd in APG: 6.3 (Only behind Nash)
4th best record in the West

Really, need i say more. It would be a crime if he wasn't on the all-star team.

But then again, my comparison is against western conference Pg's only. And I don't think the committee really gives a rats *** whether or not there is 1 Pg on a team, or 4 Pg's on a team. The reality is, the best players(for the most part by stats) will make the reserves for the western conference.

Hopefully this won't affect Bibby, and the Western conference all-star team has more than just Nash as a true point guard. Because if there is a 2nd point, IT WOULD HAVE TO BE BIBBY.


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## Tersk (Apr 9, 2004)

I think some people need to realize they choose 3 positions. Guards, Forwards and Center. They do not do PG, SG, SF, PF, C

So you need to factor in:

Ray Allen
Kobe Bryant
Tracy McGrady
Manu Ginobli


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## SacTown16 (Feb 2, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Theo!</b>!
> I think some people need to realize they choose 3 positions. Guards, Forwards and Center. They do not do PG, SG, SF, PF, C
> 
> So you need to factor in:
> ...


I think that is part of the problem. Technically the game could have 5 SG's on one team. Ridiculous!!!


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## Petey (Aug 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Theo!</b>!
> *I think some people need to realize they choose 3 positions. Guards, Forwards and Center.* They do not do PG, SG, SF, PF, C
> 
> So you need to factor in:
> ...


They don't choice those numbers evenly. Like the past few years, the Eastern Centers have been 2 per team. They just bring whom they think deserve it the most / will draw the most viewers.

-Petey


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## Peja Vu (Jun 9, 2002)

Making his point: Kings guard Mike Bibby deserves to make his first All-Star appearance


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## Tersk (Apr 9, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Petey</b>!
> 
> 
> They don't choice those numbers evenly. Like the past few years, the Eastern Centers have been 2 per team. They just bring whom they think deserve it the most / will draw the most viewers.
> ...


Are you sure, I think they have the same amount of guards and forwards and 2 centers. They've had that for ages haven't they

On to the topic, I definately think Bibby deserves to be there


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