# Blazers/Kings thread



## mgb (Jun 26, 2004)

Don't see a thread started yet. 

Miles has to run after rebounds and not assume someone else won't work to get to them.


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## mgb (Jun 26, 2004)

Skinner is doing well. Nice to be able to see him play.


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## Utherhimo (Feb 20, 2005)

wish zbo would move like skinner attack right no million fakes


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## SheedSoNasty (Dec 31, 2002)

Brian Skinner kicks ***

And what's with Martell not starting and then having Jack in for Dixon when he gets into foul trouble? Hopefully we're not back to only seeing Martell in the last 8 minutes of blowout losses.


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## mgb (Jun 26, 2004)

Anyone catch the starting lineup? I read Dixon was going to start but didn't see who did.


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## mgb (Jun 26, 2004)

Skinners not a good FT shooter, that figures.  

Oh well he's giving us a inside presence.


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## mgb (Jun 26, 2004)

SheedSoNasty said:


> Brian Skinner kicks ***
> 
> And what's with Martell not starting and then having Jack in for Dixon when he gets into foul trouble? Hopefully we're not back to only seeing Martell in the last 8 minutes of blowout losses.


That confuses me as well. Nate must not have liked what he seen the last game.


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## mgb (Jun 26, 2004)

Come on Miles, take it to the basket.


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## hasoos (Jan 3, 2003)

Kryapa really stunk it up so far. I hope Martell isn't far from coming in, but you never know with Nate if he is going to give him any time.


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## Blazer Freak (Jul 11, 2004)

This is what I was talking about. Nate needs to keep going with Webster, he is never going to get in a groove if he can't get the time. It's not like Viktor was really doing anything but shoot airballs when he was in. Atleast start him at SF and Miles at PF..


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## hasoos (Jan 3, 2003)

Martell vs Artest looks to be pretty physical battle so far. Martell needs to start taking some shots though.


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## mgb (Jun 26, 2004)

We got to get O rebounds. They are killing us!


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## mgb (Jun 26, 2004)

That's funny, Wheels saying if he doesn't know if Miles is the answer to our rebounding woes.


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## hasoos (Jan 3, 2003)

Looks like were going to see Bassy, Martell, Miles, Randolph and Skinner lineup for a few after the timeout. It will be interesting to see how Bassy and Martell play together.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

rebounding is our achilies heel. after defense. and offense. and passing. and free throw shooting.


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## SheedSoNasty (Dec 31, 2002)

I just gave into the 76 steal of the game!


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## Utherhimo (Feb 20, 2005)

yup blake zbo miles stink lazy 

yeah lets keep miles and zbo


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## sa1177 (Feb 18, 2005)

SheedSoNasty said:


> I just gave into the 76 steal of the game!


lol...I have a Bobblehead collection I started when I worked there and haven't been able to get my hands on all of them from this year..if you want to get rid of them then PM me and I'll buy them off you.

Wanted to buy the "steal of the game" but I can't make it on 2 of the 3 nights.


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## Xericx (Oct 29, 2004)

Utherhimo said:


> yup blake zbo miles stink lazy
> 
> yeah lets keep miles and zbo


My god, Zbo and Miles are playing like CRAP. And they took Webster out?
:curse:


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## mgb (Jun 26, 2004)

Hap said:


> rebounding is our achilies heel. after defense. and offense. and passing. and free throw shooting.


Funny, but we'd be in this if not for O rebounds.


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## Utherhimo (Feb 20, 2005)

nice block viktor and miles is walking agian doing dumb stuff going one on one with arrest
just fake a move and pass the darn ball


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## wastro (Dec 19, 2004)

It'd be nice if Darius and Zach got back on defense, instead of meddling in the backcourt, arguing over a non-call.

Seriously, I haven't disliked the combination of Z-bo and Miles, but with them in the game, the Blazers just aren't any fun to watch.


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## Blazer Freak (Jul 11, 2004)

It's getting ****ing ugly to watch. I don't understand why Dixon is in there. He sucks balls now, and isn't doing anything. Webster, I have no idea why he was taken out he wasn't doing anything bad and was making good decisions. But I mean great move Nate, putting ****ing Viktor "waste of a a possession" Khryapa in there. 

Seriously..****ing go with Skinner/Outlaw/Webster/Jack/Telfair and play it the rest of the god damn game.


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## hasoos (Jan 3, 2003)

Well nice way to end the half. What an effort..... :biggrin:


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## southnc (Dec 15, 2005)

So far, Blake & Skinner are the only ones that showed up to play.


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## yakbladder (Sep 13, 2003)

I especially liked Jack's "inadvertent" elbow to the groin of Kevin Martin. I wonder if that's what Nate meant by starting a fight... :biggrin: I can't stand that guy anyways (Martin)....

At least Darius looked pissed at halftime tossing the ball to the cheap seats. Other than that, he and Zach really haven't showed much emotion. Zach in particular looks like he's just going through the motions.


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## ThatBlazerGuy (May 1, 2003)

I would love to have Kevin Martin on this team.


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## hasoos (Jan 3, 2003)

I was watching Miles the last 3 times up and down the court. He isn't doing anything. He is just standing in one spot and waiting for time to go by. Its like he is thinking "I better not go inside the key...Ron Artest is in there.".... :curse:


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Why doesn't Nate bench Darius and Zach to send them a message that lazy play is not accepted no matter what your salary is...


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## sa1177 (Feb 18, 2005)

Good lord 14-1 in offensive rebounds for the first half...just getting killed on the boards.


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## Utherhimo (Feb 20, 2005)

clank clank clank clank clank 

wow this is the worst game of the year

at least the hawks won today!


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## chromekilla (Aug 21, 2005)

game's over time to bench everyone cept skinner and put in webster and younguns.


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## ThatBlazerGuy (May 1, 2003)

I miss the days when our headcases at least played hard(Wallace, Patterson)


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## sa1177 (Feb 18, 2005)

HORRID CALL..that was NOT a clear path foul!! :curse: :curse: :curse:


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## Utherhimo (Feb 20, 2005)

skinner > zbo 

plus if we draft a pf bye bye zbo


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## Xericx (Oct 29, 2004)

Is Outlaw better than Miles? I'm seeing GOOD things from Outlaw.....what elevation.....PLEASE BENCH MILES AND RANDOLPH.


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## HOWIE (Dec 30, 2002)

So if you are Nate, do you keep Miles and Randolph on the bench for the rest of the game? They don't appear to really want to play tonight. Skinner is the only player you is going after rebounds.


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## yakbladder (Sep 13, 2003)

Xericx said:


> Is Outlaw better than Miles? I'm seeing GOOD things from Outlaw.....what elevation.....PLEASE BENCH MILES AND RANDOLPH.


Outlaw is pretty good on offense. Still has a ways to go on defense. The problem is, who is better?


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Outlaw's elbow jumper is money everytime, I don't understand why he doesn't shoot it more, or take it to the rim more often for that matter...


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## yakbladder (Sep 13, 2003)

I wish the Blazers would just sign some center..ANYBODY who is bigger than 6'9" to play center for a 10-day contract (if they can). Of course, that would involve money so scratch that idea...


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## mgb (Jun 26, 2004)

SheedSoNasty said:


> I just gave into the 76 steal of the game!


I did too! :biggrin: 

I even have tickets to one of the three, the Suns, but I missed out on Friday's game because my wife wouldn't let me go straight from the hospital to the game which was probably wise. But now I can go Wednesday to make up for it and have another game I wasn't expecting to go to this season. I upgraded them for lower section so I'll give away the tickets I have the Suns game. I have to admit part of it was wanting them bobble dolls! I heard you also got a 76 card for some gas but the person I talk to said no. Did anyone else hear them say that was part of the deal?


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## MARIS61 (Apr 28, 2003)

Viktor leading rebounder in only 14 minutes with 6.

Also only big man with a block.


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## MARIS61 (Apr 28, 2003)

Skinner is making this a personal offensive attack but no D at all and no team ball is occurring with him in.

Meanwhile Ha gets older with rustier.


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## mgb (Jun 26, 2004)

MARIS61 said:


> Skinner is making this a personal offensive attack but no D at all and no team ball is occurring with him in.
> 
> Meanwhile Ha gets older with rustier.


Skinner hasn't been here long enough to judge on team ball.


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## Sambonius (May 21, 2003)

Nate is really pissing me off with his crush on the vets who don't produce. The minutes that Martell and Sebastian don't get makes me want to throw up.


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## sa1177 (Feb 18, 2005)

mgb said:


> I did too! :biggrin:
> 
> I even have tickets to one of the three, the Suns, but I missed out on Friday's game because my wife wouldn't let me go straight from the hospital to the game which was probably wise. But now I can go Wednesday to make up for it and have another game I wasn't expecting to go to this season. I upgraded them for lower section so I'll give away the tickets I have the Suns game. I have to admit part of it was wanting them bobble dolls! I heard you also got a 76 card for some gas but the person I talk to said no. Did anyone else hear them say that was part of the deal?


No the deal is sponsored by 76..free advertising for them paying for the add spot..but no free gas is included. 

As I said earlier I'll buy anyone's bobbles who wants to sell them..have a small collection of 40 or so and need to get this years Blazer ones still. Sound like you want yours though.


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## SheedSoNasty (Dec 31, 2002)

This is ugly ugly ugly ugly ugly... yuck


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## MARIS61 (Apr 28, 2003)

yakbladder said:


> At least Darius looked pissed at halftime tossing the ball to the cheap seats.


Only effort he showed tonight and he uses it like a baby throwing a tantrum.

Could just as easily tried to hit a 3 to help the team.

Him and Paul "I'm not responsible for my own bad decisions" Allen belong together.

In Seattle.


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## mgb (Jun 26, 2004)

sa1177 said:


> No the deal is sponsored by 76..free advertising for them paying for the add spot..but no free gas is included.
> 
> As I said earlier I'll buy anyone's bobbles who wants to sell them..have a small collection of 40 or so and need to get this years Blazer ones still. Sound like you want yours though.


Yea, want the bobbles. That is a big selling point to my wife for me to buy the tickets. Thanks for the info on the deal.

GO BLAZERS!!


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## sa1177 (Feb 18, 2005)

mgb said:


> Yea, want the bobbles. That is a big selling point to my wife for me to buy the tickets. Thanks for the info on the deal.
> 
> GO BLAZERS!!


Lol understandable..I am sure I can finagle someone to get them for me...my problem is most of my old friend are with Global Spectrum not the Blazers.


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## sa1177 (Feb 18, 2005)

OUCH! That is all I have to say...


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## wastro (Dec 19, 2004)

What an ugly game. I don't see this team winning another five or six games the rest of the way.

The only bright spots tonight were Blake's shooting, Skinner's game and Telfair's game. And maybe Outlaw.


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## BlayZa (Dec 31, 2002)

talking about some realised potential, kevin martin.

id LOVE to get that kid (and not just on my KVBL Team *sig*)


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## sa1177 (Feb 18, 2005)

BlayZa said:


> talking about some realised potential, kevin martin.
> 
> id LOVE to get that kid (and not just on my KVBL Team *sig*)


Career night for him...it won't last.


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## SheedSoNasty (Dec 31, 2002)

More Martell, please!

Why can't we get some plays run for this man instead of having him waste 10 minutes a game standing in the corners waiting for some pathetic outside shot from someone who shouldn't even be taking it.


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## mook (Dec 31, 2002)

SheedSoNasty said:


> More Martell, please!
> 
> Why can't we get some plays run for this man instead of having him waste 10 minutes a game standing in the corners waiting for some pathetic outside shot from someone who shouldn't even be taking it.


it is pretty depressing that in an outright slaughter like this we can't find more than 20 minutes for Webster, or 16 minutes for Outlaw. 

if this franchise has any hope of justifying the misery it's been through lately, at least one of Outlaw, Webster or Telfair needs to emerge as a superstar.


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## TP3 (Jan 26, 2003)

Miles...0 Rebounds.


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## mgb (Jun 26, 2004)

TP3 said:


> Miles...0 Rebounds.


His effort was pretty pathetic on rebounds. One play he causally went after a rebound, probably figured he could just let it go out of bounds, meanwhile a King hustle over and got the rebound and they scored.


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## GrandpaBlaze (Jul 11, 2004)

Our two "stars":

Miles: 6 pts, 0 rebounds, 0 assists, 4 turnovers, 2 fouls (25 minutes)
Zach: 2 pts, 2 rebounds, 1 assist, 1 turnover, 2 fouls (19 minutes)

Yup, those are the kind of numbers that are going to lead this team into the future. :sour: uke: 

Gramps... :frown:


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## myELFboy (Jun 28, 2005)

MARIS61 said:


> Only effort he showed tonight and he uses it like a baby throwing a tantrum.
> 
> Could just as easily tried to hit a 3 to help the team.
> 
> ...


I'll take Paul owning the Supes, but no to Darius---we already have a whiny SF named Rashard.


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## mgb (Jun 26, 2004)

GrandpaBlaze said:


> Our two "stars":
> 
> Miles: 6 pts, 0 rebounds, 0 assists, 4 turnovers, 2 fouls (25 minutes)
> Zach: 2 pts, 2 rebounds, 1 assist, 1 turnover, 2 fouls (19 minutes)
> ...


Zach had his teeth wired together so he could breath and got it aggarvated by a elbow to the mouth so I won't judge Zach by his stats tonite, but Miles doesn't have that excuse.


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## chromekilla (Aug 21, 2005)

I didn't watch the game but i heard it on the internet and it wasn't pretty to listen too so i magine that the tv was much worse.Why won't Nate play the youngins.He's already tried his best to get the vets to listen but they wont.He should play Blake at the point he hustled at least,webster,outlaw,kryapha,skinner.Then switch out with ha-c,telfair at the point,jack at sg.I would love to watch that atleast.


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

sa1177 said:


> Career night for him...it won't last.


I don't know whether you've been catching any Kings games of late, but Kevin Martin has been more then holding his own since Bonzi went down. He's not athletic for a 2 guard, but seems like he might have some RIP in his game to me. I'm not going to compile the stats, but a quick glance at his game log...

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3843/gamelog;_ylt=Aojs5Qus.U7OgyvIyRKsmLGkvLYF

... shows that he scores, shoots a high percentage, and goes to the line a lot. I've seen him a 4-5 times now and each occasion he's impressed me. 

Between him and Francisco Garcia also playing well, It seems pretty likely that Peitre will opt for the cap relief on Bonzi's expiring deal this offseason... and he was playing really well for them. 

STOMP


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

mgb said:


> Zach had his teeth wired together so he could breath and got it aggarvated by a elbow to the mouth so I won't judge Zach by his stats tonite, but Miles doesn't have that excuse.



ok, that might be an excuse for tonite..but what about hte rest of this season where he's gotten under 5 boards?

there's no excuse for a guy who was supposed to be rebounding machine, to be averaging such pitiful #'s as he is. 

In 14 less minutes (against NO) Skinner had the same # of rebounds. It's about effort, and Zach and Darius don't give it very often.


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## Fiddy (Dec 14, 2005)

i dont kno if it was me or not, but i think the team was doing better when telfair was running the point, even the commentator mentioned it


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## mgb (Jun 26, 2004)

Zidane said:


> I didn't watch the game but i heard it on the internet and it wasn't pretty to listen too so i magine that the tv was much worse.Why won't Nate play the youngins.He's already tried his best to get the vets to listen but they wont.He should play Blake at the point he hustled at least,webster,outlaw,kryapha,skinner.Then switch out with ha-c,telfair at the point,jack at sg.I would love to watch that atleast.


Part of Nate's evaluation is to see if Zach and Miles are the players we need them to be so he has to play them a lot too, but I'm with you I'd love to see more of the youth. If we are going to lose why not play Ha a lot and let him make mistakes. So what if we lose by 40 instead of 20? But a lot of the media and many fans would be so critical they probably feel they need to be more competitive.


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## mgb (Jun 26, 2004)

Hap said:


> ok, that might be an excuse for tonite..but what about hte rest of this season where he's gotten under 5 boards?
> 
> there's no excuse for a guy who was supposed to be rebounding machine, to be averaging such pitiful #'s as he is.
> 
> In 14 less minutes (against NO) Skinner had the same # of rebounds. It's about effort, and Zach and Darius don't give it very often.


I agree effort is a big part. But is Zach blocking his man out so someone else can get the rebound and they aren't? Nate can address that better because he knows their duties better.


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## mgb (Jun 26, 2004)

Another thing is not having Joel/Theo is big. Zach is playing out of position.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

Fiddy said:


> i dont kno if it was me or not, but i think the team was doing better when telfair was running the point, even the commentator mentioned it


honestly, I think it depends on the moment you watch the game. Sometimes the team is run very well with Blake, sometimes it's not. Sometimes it's run well with Jack, sometimes it's not. Sometimes..well, you get the idea. 

A lot, imho, has to do with who that player is playnig with. I think Darius cuts into Blakes ability to be a "playmaker" (as he does with telfairs). I don't know if we've seen a lot of Jack "running" the team really. 

I do like how the team plays when Darius and/or Zach arent playing, even if the results aren't any different (and sometimes worse).


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## mgb (Jun 26, 2004)

Hap said:


> ok, that might be an excuse for tonite..but what about hte rest of this season where he's gotten under 5 boards?
> 
> there's no excuse for a guy who was supposed to be rebounding machine, to be averaging such pitiful #'s as he is.


This season he is averaging 8.6 rebounds a game, I wouldn't call that pitiful. Some games he does get less than 5 but on the average he certainly isn't.


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## BBert (Dec 30, 2004)

That was about the worst Blazers game I've ever seen. Zach and Darius were just pitiful. After Zach got hit in the mouth, he just flat quit playing. Miles plays like a guy with the flu. Whatever Nate said to them to get them to "commit", he should have said the opposite.

Nobody but Viktor and Skinner was rebounding. If one guy boxed out, there was no other Blazer even on the TV screen to go after a rebound. I thought Viktor played pretty well but he looked really nervous on his shots in the 1st, and missed badly. In garbage time he relaxed and hit a couple. 

We were in the game until two things happened about the same time. First, Jack was subbed in (inexplicably, ahead of both Telfair and Webster), and proceeded to make a ton of mistakes. He was horrible. Second, there was a string of horrible calls against the Blazers. The momentum swung permanently in the Kings favor, and that's all she wrote.

Voshon Lenard looks like an old man. They said he's out of shape from sitting on the bench, but come on, he's done. 

Telfair played very much under control. There is no doubt in my mind that of our three point guards, he is our future. Play him, Nate! And play Travis and Webster too, while your at it.

I can't believe that both Dixon and Jack play ahead of Martell at SG. Unbelievable.

Nate needs to just play the guys who want to play. If Zach and Miles would rather ride pine, let them.


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## Target (Mar 17, 2004)

It seems to me that Ha might get some of those grabs. He should know how to box out.


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## Sambonius (May 21, 2003)

We're basically trying to play 14 players and that isn't going to work. We need to simply NOT play the guys who are NOT our future. Outlaw, Telfair, Webster MUST PLAY. I am getting so frustrated with the crap minutes they are getting. Not to mention these players have been very productive in the minutes given. Throw Dixon shouldn't be getting more than 18 mins as a backup to Webster. Blake shouldn't be getting more than 20 mins backing up Telfair. Sorry but we need to hold off on Jack for the year. Let him ride the pine while Blake's value rises. Not only do these guys need minutes but they desperately need plays ran for them. It seems they run numerous plays for Dixon but when Webster is in there he's having to dedicate himself to the perimeter by just standing there. I would like to kick Nate in the groin right now.


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## mgb (Jun 26, 2004)

Blazer Bert said:


> That was about the worst Blazers game I've ever seen. Zach and Darius were just pitiful. After Zach got hit in the mouth, he just flat quit playing. Miles plays like a guy with the flu. Whatever Nate said to them to get them to "commit", he should have said the opposite.


Zach I give credit for even playing, many players wouldn't have(I know DA wouldn't have) and if not for both Joel and Theo being out I doubt he would have. Miles OTOH has no excuse at least that I know of.



> Nobody but Viktor and Skinner was rebounding. If one guy boxed out, there was no other Blazer even on the TV screen to go after a rebound. I thought Viktor played pretty well but he looked really nervous on his shots in the 1st, and missed badly. In garbage time he relaxed and hit a couple.
> 
> We were in the game until two things happened about the same time. First, Jack was subbed in (inexplicably, ahead of both Telfair and Webster), and proceeded to make a ton of mistakes. He was horrible. Second, there was a string of horrible calls against the Blazers. The momentum swung permanently in the Kings favor, and that's all she wrote.


Yes, and Miles was making his share of mistakes, I remember him throwing a uncatchable rocket which had it been caught would have led to a basket but instead it was just thrown out of bounds. 



> Voshon Lenard looks like an old man. They said he's out of shape from sitting on the bench, but come on, he's done.


I was busy getting the 76 deal and didn't even notice when he was in. Hopefully it is a matter of him getting into shape. You'd think he'd keep in shape just in case he's going to play so that's not a good sigin.



> elfair played very much under control. There is no doubt in my mind that of our three point guards, he is our future. Play him, Nate! And play Travis and Webster too, while your at it.
> 
> I can't believe that both Dixon and Jack play ahead of Martell at SG. Unbelievable.
> 
> Nate needs to just play the guys who want to play. If Zach and Miles would rather ride pine, let them.


I agree Telfair is playing better and should be given more time.

I'm not sure why Nate won't play Martell more. I read Webster wasn't spacing like he should but when he is in he plays well. He's just the opposite of some of the players passing when he should probably shoot.


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## myELFboy (Jun 28, 2005)

too bad the Supes & Blazers can't trade coaches.....Hill has a knack of playing the young guys (e.g., when he replaced Potapenko, Fortson, and Evans with more PT for Nick, and playing Johan & Robert....& now Wilcox is playing a lot more). Right now the Sonics have a group of players that actually WANT to play for the Supes, and having Nate back would be so nice.....ah, well, it's nice to dream about. Sorry to hear about the Blazer woes, but I can relate; Sonics just went 1-8 on a road trip. Yeah, barely beat Atlanta. These NW teams have had a tough year.....


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## mgb (Jun 26, 2004)

myELFboy said:


> too bad the Supes & Blazers can't trade coaches.....Hill has a knack of playing the young guys (e.g., when he replaced Potapenko, Fortson, and Evans with more PT for Nick, and playing Johan & Robert....& now Wilcox is playing a lot more). Right now the Sonics have a group of players that actually WANT to play for the Supes, and having Nate back would be so nice.....ah, well, it's nice to dream about. Sorry to hear about the Blazer woes, but I can relate; Sonics just went 1-8 on a road trip. Yeah, barely beat Atlanta. These NW teams have had a tough year.....


Ain't no way you are getting Nate back! :biggrin: 

At least we were suppose to be bad. heh


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## alext42083 (Nov 7, 2003)

Zach's not the problem, I don't think.
Darius Miles is not a player this franchise needs to build around. I prefer Viktor or Travis over Miles, at least they can hit free throws.
Why couldn't John Nash dupe Isiah Thomas into getting Darius?

And Nate needs to figure out if Steve Blake is the future at the PG. Sebastian needs the time out there. He played well, although in garbage minutes, but he needs to be out there on the floor.

Telfair, Webster, Outlaw and Zach are the future. Let them play together.


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## myELFboy (Jun 28, 2005)

mgb said:


> Ain't no way you are getting Nate back! :biggrin:
> 
> At least we were suppose to be bad. heh


eh, I don't think the Sonics were projected to be good in the preseason....not as atrocious as they are now of course, but more a mediocre, "hovering around .500" team. most "experts" predicted the decline in defense because of Nate & AD leaving....unfortunately the decline is historically bad. & it doesn't help when half the team (Vlad, Flip, Reggie, Vitaly, Danny after Weiss was canned) doesn't want to be there.


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## southnc (Dec 15, 2005)

alext42083 said:


> Zach's not the problem, I don't think.
> And Nate needs to figure out if Steve Blake is the future at the PG. Sebastian needs the time out there. He played well, although in garbage minutes, but he needs to be out there on the floor.
> 
> Telfair, Webster, Outlaw and Zach are the future. Let them play together.


Steve Blake is playing very good basketball, despite the dire straights this team is in right now. I believe he is the future point gaurd. He's earned it.

Most of the people on this board judge Telfair through "rose colored" glasses - he did nothing last night until garbage time (as you stated), when no one was playing defense and the game no longer mattered. Bibby "toyed" with Telfair during the competitive part of the game. Taking minues away from Blake to help Telfair is not fair to Blake and I doubt will help Telfair much, who already gets plenty of minutes.

That was an awful game to watch, with Blake & Skinner doing everything they could to win the game, while the rest of the starters seemingly just going through the motions. Very sad.


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## Storyteller (Dec 31, 2002)

Mike Tokito's game summary makes it sound like it was a tough game to watch, and I have no reason not to believe him. Still, this gave me a good laugh:



> But McMillan he is no position to abandon Randolph and Miles as his go-to players.


Is that Tarzan writing for the Oregonian now? :laugh:


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## blue32 (Jan 13, 2006)

southnc said:


> Steve Blake is playing very good basketball, despite the dire straights this team is in right now. I believe he is the future point gaurd. He's earned it.
> 
> Most of the people on this board judge Telfair through "rose colored" glasses - he did nothing last night until garbage time (as you stated), when no one was playing defense and the game no longer mattered. Bibby "toyed" with Telfair during the competitive part of the game. Taking minues away from Blake to help Telfair is not fair to Blake and I doubt will help Telfair much, who already gets plenty of minutes.
> 
> That was an awful game to watch, with Blake & Skinner doing everything they could to win the game, while the rest of the starters seemingly just going through the motions. Very sad.



whoa, i stopped watching later in the fourth quarter and Telfair had very little action, i see he got 16 points late? Wow, nice.....BUT when it's all said and done. Telfair still doesnt run the offense as well as Blake.

Blake had the bulk of his points in the "important" part of the game, not the garbage time....
I agree above.......

Blake should start, Telfair should assist.......Webster needs to start, and Dixon should assist.

Miles/Randolph.....remove them pls..... they have no fire, and no heart. they are in it for the money only....and it shows.


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## Blazer Freak (Jul 11, 2004)

southnc said:


> Steve Blake is playing very good basketball, despite the dire straights this team is in right now. I believe he is the future point gaurd. He's earned it.
> 
> Most of the people on this board judge Telfair through "rose colored" glasses - he did nothing last night until garbage time (as you stated), when no one was playing defense and the game no longer mattered. Bibby "toyed" with Telfair during the competitive part of the game. Taking minues away from Blake to help Telfair is not fair to Blake and I doubt will help Telfair much, who already gets plenty of minutes.
> 
> That was an awful game to watch, with Blake & Skinner doing everything they could to win the game, while the rest of the starters seemingly just going through the motions. Very sad.


It doesn't matter that it was garbage time, he wasn't looking to score. He would take the ball down an hit the open guy, he found Viktor 3 times, and other players. He was directing the offense very well, something that he needed to work on. And how is it not fair to Blake? Because Telfair is trying harder to get back into the starting lineup? Blake IMO, doesn't deserve to be starting anymore. He had a good night last night, scoring wise but he did nothing else, not to mention Dixon sucked donkey dick.

WTF is Nate's obsession with Blake and Dixon, it doesn't ****ing work anymore NATE. Try something new.


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## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

Blazer Freak said:


> It doesn't matter that it was garbage time, he wasn't looking to score. He would take the ball down an hit the open guy, he found Viktor 3 times, and other players. He was directing the offense very well, something that he needed to work on. And how is it not fair to Blake? Because Telfair is trying harder to get back into the starting lineup? Blake IMO, doesn't deserve to be starting anymore. He had a good night last night, scoring wise but he did nothing else, not to mention Dixon sucked donkey dick.
> 
> WTF is Nate's obsession with Blake and Dixon, it doesn't ****ing work anymore NATE. Try something new.



I couldn't agree with this post more...well maybe I could I guess. Dixon has no business in our starting lineup period. Martell is a better defender if for no other reason than his height, he is a better shooter, and needs the experience. Blake IMO is a decent player, but we have 2 young guards that given the chance and experience will both be better than Blake is. Nate needs to really get on board with the rebuilding process. Bring them off the bench fine, but don't take valuable minutes away from the young guys.


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## blue32 (Jan 13, 2006)

mediocre man said:


> I couldn't agree with this post more...well maybe I could I guess. Dixon has no business in our starting lineup period. Martell is a better defender if for no other reason than his height, he is a better shooter, and needs the experience. Blake IMO is a decent player, but we have 2 young guards that given the chance and experience will both be better than Blake is. Nate needs to really get on board with the rebuilding process. Bring them off the bench fine, but don't take valuable minutes away from the young guys.



Blake is 25 years old, how is that not 'young' and part of 'rebuilding' this team. LOL. you guys are crazy if you think Telfair runs the offense better. He can't finish layups period AND his jump shot is a little flakey, but getting better. The whole flow of the offense just runs better through Blake. I've noticed that ever since he got Telfair's job. Btw anyone can do great in garbage time.....come on, that's why its called 'garbage' time to begin with, nobody is REALLY trying except the losing team.....


I agree with you guys about Dixon more and more......I like the idea of starting Webster more. But you can't really come down on the guards of this team, they are not the problem.... The problem is with Zach and Miles....period. (Zach can't dribble, and either can Miles for that matter) I saw Zbo and Miles commit back to back turn-overs last night because they try to "juke" to the basket from 18 feet out


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

blue32 said:


> Blake is 25 years old, how is that not 'young' and part of 'rebuilding' this team.


Actually, he's 26. But whether he's 25 or 26, that's not young for the NBA.

Ed O.


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## Blazer Freak (Jul 11, 2004)

blue32 said:


> Blake is 25 years old, how is that not 'young' and part of 'rebuilding' this team. LOL. you guys are crazy if you think Telfair runs the offense better. He can't finish layups period AND his jump shot is a little flakey, but getting better. The whole flow of the offense just runs better through Blake. I've noticed that ever since he got Telfair's job. Btw anyone can do great in garbage time.....come on, that's why its called 'garbage' time to begin with, nobody is REALLY trying except the losing team.....
> 
> 
> I agree with you guys about Dixon more and more......I like the idea of starting Webster more. But you can't really come down on the guards of this team, they are not the problem.... The problem is with Zach and Miles....period. (Zach can't dribble, and either can Miles for that matter) I saw Zbo and Miles commit back to back turn-overs last night because they try to "juke" to the basket from 18 feet out


Telfair sure isn't running the team bad. He's doing almost-just as good as Blake is, and is 6 years younger. Why not play him and develop him more, with more starting experience with this offense, in a year or two at the age of *21* or *22* he will be a better point guard then Blake. 

It's not that I don't like Blake, just when a barely better player who is 26 years old, which is not young for the NBA, is starting over a 20 year old who is just as good, it's not smart to not develop Telfair. Blake would be a fine backup PG, which is what he would be on any other team right now. A BACKUP PG. He isn't a future All-Star, now maybe if Zach/Miles/Webster were stars then we wouldn't need a real good PG, but right now we need to make sure all of our young guys can develop because unless we get lucky and get Oden or one of our young guys becomes a star, we will be stuck in this rut for quite some time.

It's time to get off the Blake/Dixon bandwagon.


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## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

blue32 said:


> Blake is 25 years old, how is that not 'young' and part of 'rebuilding' this team. LOL. you guys are crazy if you think Telfair runs the offense better. He can't finish layups period AND his jump shot is a little flakey, but getting better. The whole flow of the offense just runs better through Blake. I've noticed that ever since he got Telfair's job. Btw anyone can do great in garbage time.....come on, that's why its called 'garbage' time to begin with, nobody is REALLY trying except the losing team.....
> 
> 
> I agree with you guys about Dixon more and more......I like the idea of starting Webster more. But you can't really come down on the guards of this team, they are not the problem.... The problem is with Zach and Miles....period. (Zach can't dribble, and either can Miles for that matter) I saw Zbo and Miles commit back to back turn-overs last night because they try to "juke" to the basket from 18 feet out



What Blake is, is an average NBA point guard. That's all he'll ever be. Just like the love for Joel in this forum. Joel is also and average NBA center and that's all he'll ever be. It's time to build this team from the ground up, and IMO that means starting Telfair or Jack. I'd love for Blake to be on this team as a quality back up, but that's all he'll ever be on a contending team. Is he the best right now....probably, but right now doesn't or shouldn't matter to the Blazers. I'm also not sure I don't like Jack better than Telfair, but that's another thread.


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## blue32 (Jan 13, 2006)

it's not that i am on a bandwagon of anyone. I love the blazers period. Blake performs now and can only get better as well. They both can be much better if they had the supporting cast.


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## Utherhimo (Feb 20, 2005)

i dont know blake played pretty bad last game i think there is more flow with telfair if nate would open the O up just a little it would free Tfair up. 

but zbo was playing bad before he got popped and miles well he needs to rest his knee more.


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## yakbladder (Sep 13, 2003)

Blazer Freak said:


> Telfair sure isn't running the team bad. He's doing almost-just as good as Blake is, and is 6 years younger. Why not play him and develop him more, with more starting experience with this offense, in a year or two at the age of *21* or *22* he will be a better point guard then Blake.
> 
> It's not that I don't like Blake, just when a barely better player who is 26 years old, which is not young for the NBA, is starting over a 20 year old who is just as good, it's not smart to not develop Telfair. Blake would be a fine backup PG, which is what he would be on any other team right now. A BACKUP PG. He isn't a future All-Star, now maybe if Zach/Miles/Webster were stars then we wouldn't need a real good PG, but right now we need to make sure all of our young guys can develop because unless we get lucky and get Oden or one of our young guys becomes a star, we will be stuck in this rut for quite some time.
> 
> It's time to get off the Blake/Dixon bandwagon.


He'll be a better point guard in a year or two? You're guaranteeing that? Would you like me to go compile a list of players with "potential" who are still in "potential" mode or better yet out of the NBA? Why is it such an imperative for the pro-Telfair crowd that he start? Exactly what does that gain him as long as he gets his minutes during a game. Does Telfair need to start in order to play hard? 

Telfair is not as good right now. It's time for you to get off the Telfair bandwagon and look at things a little more realistically. I realize you think you are a better coach than Nate, but I'm guessing you've been to a few less practices than Nate.


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## yakbladder (Sep 13, 2003)

mediocre man said:


> What Blake is, is an average NBA point guard. That's all he'll ever be. Just like the love for Joel in this forum. Joel is also and average NBA center and that's all he'll ever be. It's time to build this team from the ground up, and IMO that means starting Telfair or Jack. I'd love for Blake to be on this team as a quality back up, but that's all he'll ever be on a contending team. Is he the best right now....probably, but right now doesn't or shouldn't matter to the Blazers. I'm also not sure I don't like Jack better than Telfair, but that's another thread.



Joel does what he's told to do. When they run the pick and roll and look for Joel to score (as they've done in the past), he has. The problem is everyone thinks that if some guy isn't pulling down 25 points and 20 boards, dishing out 10 assists and has 5 steals that they're just average. Sometimes you just need some good role players and Joel does an INCREDIBLE job on defense helping out his less-skilled teammates. I think that's been shown ever since he's been out. He also moves fairly well for a 7' guy - a rarity in the NBA.

As for Telfair, he may get better, but I'm not looking for him to be a scorer. People ******* and moaned about Damon for years because he was score-first, pass-second and now they get all excited if Telfair goes on a scoring binge. How about if he goes on an assist and assist-to-turnover binge? And how about if he grabs more than ZERO rebounds in a game where we're getting mauled on the boards.


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## blue32 (Jan 13, 2006)

yakbladder said:


> As for Telfair, he may get better, but I'm not looking for him to be a scorer. People bi***** and moaned about Damon for years because he was score-first, pass-second and now they get all excited if Telfair goes on a scoring binge. How about if he goes on an assist and assist-to-turnover binge? And how about if he grabs more than ZERO rebounds in a game where we're getting mauled on the boards.



THAT is why I love blake, the guy is a "dish" machine.....unless of course, the guys down low arent getting it taken care of......


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## BBert (Dec 30, 2004)

Blake and Dixon will be perfect second unit guards on a good team. Blake plays smart. They both play hard. If they didn't, they wouldn't even be in the league. Neither are great defensively, but Dixon especially is too much of a liability against bigger stronger starting SGs. And he takes too many tough shots (although he's one of the few Blazers who can get a shot off when he needs too).

Of our three PGs I vote Telfair. He is settling down, learning to be in control, learning how to run the offense and involve his teammates, and shooting much better than last year. If Nate wants to continue to start Blake for the rest of the season and force Telfair to refine his game (and play like he did last night), I'm mostly OK with that. With the understanding that he is being developed to be the starter next year. Jack has his good points, and he can guard stronger guards, but he makes a lot of mistakes. Maybe he'll pass Blake on the depth chart next year, who knows. But this year, I'd firm up the minutes and play Blake and Telfair, and Jack only for defensive purposes.

Is there anyone other than Nate who doesn't think Webster should start ahead of Dixon every game for the rest of the year? OK, some Terps fans maybe. Those two can easily handle ALL the SG minutes. 

The hardest part about the way we lost to the Kings is that I think with Joel and Theo healthy, we should beat them. And with those two playing, Zach and Miles probably come to play too. It seems like they have been playing 'defeated.' The fact that they don't suck it up in the face of imminent defeat and play like stars shows that they are not (yet). Maybe they can still learn to be stars/leaders. They are each what, 24? I'd give them another year under Nate to see if Nate can help them learn that. If they aren't developing that attitude by next year's trade deadline, they should be offered up.

Thank god we finally have a tough backup PF. Skinner is no star, but he's just what we needed behind Zach.

SF has gone from a glut to a delimna. I hope Miles starts rounding into shape soon, because Miles at 50% is still as good or better than Viktor and Travis doing what they do. 

I tend to give the players a little more slack than most people do when they aren't healthy. Zach is obviously hurting and Darius is coming back from surgery. I hope this is temporary and they can play with some passion soon.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

southnc said:


> Steve Blake is playing very good basketball, despite the dire straights this team is in right now. I believe he is the future point gaurd. He's earned it.



he's earned it for this season, at most. He hasn't earned being the future PG, as his play isn't really all that good.



> Most of the people on this board judge Telfair through "rose colored" glasses


is that any different than the bias that you're showing towards Blake?


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## yakbladder (Sep 13, 2003)

Blazer Bert said:


> Blake and Dixon will be perfect second unit guards on a good team. Blake plays smart. They both play hard. If they didn't, they wouldn't even be in the league. Neither are great defensively, but Dixon especially is too much of a liability against bigger stronger starting SGs. And he takes too many tough shots (although he's one of the few Blazers who can get a shot off when he needs too).
> 
> Of our three PGs I vote Telfair. He is settling down, learning to be in control, learning how to run the offense and involve his teammates, and shooting much better than last year. If Nate wants to continue to start Blake for the rest of the season and force Telfair to refine his game (and play like he did last night), I'm mostly OK with that. With the understanding that he is being developed to be the starter next year. Jack has his good points, and he can guard stronger guards, but he makes a lot of mistakes. Maybe he'll pass Blake on the depth chart next year, who knows. But this year, I'd firm up the minutes and play Blake and Telfair, and Jack only for defensive purposes.
> 
> Is there anyone other than Nate who doesn't think Webster should start ahead of Dixon every game for the rest of the year? OK, some Terps fans maybe. Those two can easily handle ALL the SG minutes.


I'd actually like to see Jack play more point guard. Not sure why he's at SG at all except maybe to get more minutes. Not necessarily because Jack is better, just because I'd like to see him try and learn one spot rather than two.

As for the Webster / Dixon debacle...I'm sure there has to be some reason, I just can't even imagine what it is that keeps Dixon in the starting lineup...


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

yakbladder said:


> As for Telfair, he may get better, but I'm not looking for him to be a scorer. People ******* and moaned about Damon for years because he was score-first, pass-second and now they get all excited if Telfair goes on a scoring binge. How about if he goes on an assist and assist-to-turnover binge? And how about if he grabs more than ZERO rebounds in a game where we're getting mauled on the boards.


for starters, I think people were tired of Damon's game because he wasn't going to change. Telfair has shown he can change, and HAS changed. Secondly, I don't want a pass first PG. The best PG's in the game also look for their points (parker, nash, billups, payton in his prime). Assist to turnover ratio is grossly overrated. 

It's also funny how in the games where Blake has scored more, the "scoring first" pg isn't mentioned like last night. He scored 14 points and had the same # of assists (and Blake actually played more minutes). He took a whole 1 less shot than Telfair did and got to the line 0 times. 

Also, I'm not too worried about my PG getting 0 rebounds. It's not bas bad as how our starting PF got 2, our starting SF got 0 (both of which are MUCH taller than Telfair). Or 0 assists, 0 steals and 4 turnovers by Darius.

Usually the games where Telfair shoots a lot (or scores a lot) they're either done for the same reason why Blake does. There's no one else doing anything, and they're in the flow of offense.


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## yakbladder (Sep 13, 2003)

Hap said:


> for starters, I think people were tired of Damon's game because he wasn't going to change. Telfair has shown he can change, and HAS changed. Secondly, I don't want a pass first PG. The best PG's in the game also look for their points (parker, nash, billups, payton in his prime). Assist to turnover ratio is grossly overrated.
> 
> It's also funny how in the games where Blake has scored more, the "scoring first" pg isn't mentioned like last night. He scored 14 points and had the same # of assists (and Blake actually played more minutes). He took a whole 1 less shot than Telfair did and got to the line 0 times.
> 
> ...


Agreed on the PF/SF.

The problem is that who is to judge if the points scored are in the flow of the offense. Many people will simply look at the box score, point to Telfair's point total and go "Look, he's a great PG!". Points are not what I would consider the prime factor to judge a PG upon.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

yakbladder said:


> Agreed on the PF/SF.
> 
> The problem is that who is to judge if the points scored are in the flow of the offense. Many people will simply look at the box score, point to Telfair's point total and go "Look, he's a great PG!". Points are not what I would consider the prime factor to judge a PG upon.



I think the team ran better with blake, more so because Darius was gone, Ruben was playing better and Juan was performing above his stratosphere. So it wasn't as much Blake, as a bi-product of a lot of things.

Now that Darius is back, I'd say the PG is powerless on this team. Doesn't matter who's playing (as long as Darius is out there). Darius seems to think he's a "point forward" and that limits the productivity of Blake, Jack and Telfair.


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## blue32 (Jan 13, 2006)

Point Forward! lol....


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## southnc (Dec 15, 2005)

Hap said:


> he's [Blake] earned it for this season, at most. He hasn't earned being the future PG, as his play isn't really all that good.


 Well I'm not quite sure of what your definition of "good" is, which is purely subjective. But, compared to the rest of the team, his play certainly isn't bad. He has outplayed the other PGs so far this season and he has shown substantial improvement this year as well. Whether that is enough to be the "future" PG, I really don't know. But, I do not see any evidence that he cannot continue to improve.



> Is that any different than the bias that you're showing towards Blake?


 I like Telfair's work ethic and agree he will improve. But, I do not see any "allstar" quality in his game so far. I admit I am not a fan of the NBA being used as a "development" league - that is for college or the new NBDL. So, perhaps, my "bias" is there.

I do agree with your comments (elsewhere) about the PGs (Blake included) not getting to the foul line enough. They all need to attack more. That was a good point.


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## Utherhimo (Feb 20, 2005)

we have no allstars on the team now but being an allstar is about popularity not actually skill


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