# OT: O'Neal - 'Get Francis out of Orlando'



## The_Franchise (Mar 30, 2003)

> Former Magic center Shaquille O'Neal, who now is the center for the intrastate rival and Southeast Division-leading Miami Heat, says Dwight Howard won't develop as long as Steve Francis has the ball in his hands in Orlando. "Howard won't reach his potential quickly as long as Steve Francis is there,'' O'Neal said Sunday before the East met the West in the NBA All-Star Game. O'Neal offered the opinion unsolicited when talking about Howard. "Nothing needs to be groomed. He [Howard] needs to be fed [the ball],'' O'Neal said. "Can't do it with Francis pounding the ball.'' Francis has been the subject of trade rumors recently. Asked if Francis should be dealt, O'Neal said, "I'm not going to say that.''...[After retirement]He said he also would serve as Howard's big-man coach. "I'd love to come in and help groom Dwight Howard,'' O'Neal said. "*A big man doesn't come into his prime until he's 28, 29.*"


http://www.orlandosentinel.com/search/dispatcher.front?target=article&Query=shaq

Something every Rockets fan knew would eventually happen. 

Also... Yao is only 25, and averaging 20 and 10. It took Hakeem 8 years to get to the 26 ppg level he was at for 4 years.


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## kisstherim (Jul 15, 2004)

Mr. Roger's Cardigan said:


> http://www.orlandosentinel.com/search/dispatcher.front?target=article&Query=shaq
> 
> Something every Rockets fan knew would eventually happen.
> 
> Also... Yao is only 25, and averaging 20 and 10. It took Hakeem 8 years to get to the 26 ppg level he was at for 4 years.


hey, what's the url of this article? I want to read the whole article. The url above seems not right


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## Yao Mania (Aug 4, 2003)

Shaq's opinions on basketball ain't always great, but can't disagree with him on this one. Dwight's the future of the Magic and that's a good enough reason to shop Francis out of Orlando.


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## edyzbasketball (Nov 16, 2005)

Maybe we can get Francis back without shipping McGrady or Yao?!


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## CbobbyB (Feb 16, 2006)

edyzbasketball said:


> Maybe we can get Francis back without shipping McGrady or Yao?!


that would be great. . .


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## The_Franchise (Mar 30, 2003)

kisstherim said:


> hey, what's the url of this article? I want to read the whole article. The url above seems not right


 Hmm... it seems to have either dissapeared or relocated. I did a search for "francis shaq howard" on the site and got nothing relevant. The paragraph I pasted was a tidbit from a writer's journal, there was nothing more to it.


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## jworth (Feb 17, 2006)

Yao Mania said:


> Shaq's opinions on basketball ain't always great, but can't disagree with him on this one. Dwight's the future of the Magic and that's a good enough reason to shop Francis out of Orlando.


As talented as Francis is it's a shame that the Magic can't find a coach smart enough to fixate an offense that includes a skilled guard and a solid big man.

Too many time teams (especially Orlando) look to trade their best players when they feel chemistry isn't working. FIND A COACH!


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## edyzbasketball (Nov 16, 2005)

Well, they could hire Stan van Gundy.


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## Hakeem (Aug 12, 2004)

Mr. Roger's Cardigan said:


> http://www.orlandosentinel.com/search/dispatcher.front?target=article&Query=shaq
> 
> Something every Rockets fan knew would eventually happen.


Funny, Shaq was saying a couple of years ago how he'd love to play with Francis one day.



> Also... Yao is only 25, and averaging 20 and 10. It took Hakeem 8 years to get to the 26 ppg level he was at for 4 years.


Not sure I agree with that "big men tend to peak late" thing. It took Olajuwon 8 years to officially reach 26 ppg, but he wasn't really any better a player than he was 4 years earlier, at the age of 26. 25 ppg in 37 mpg is pretty much the same as 26 ppg in 40 mpg, and that's ignoring the fact that his supporting cast was weaker in '89. It's a similar thing with Shaq. He was as good in '94 or '95 as he was in 2000, only he became a better passer later. It seems that most big men reach their primes at around 26-27, rather than 29. But then again, Yao has played relatively little basketball in the U.S.


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## Pasha The Great (Apr 9, 2005)

Shaq is very right. Think about it, when Yao and Steve played together there wasn't a big change in his play since he came into the league and it didn't look like he was going to be as big as expected. But Houston did the right thing and traded him, bringing Yao Tracy who has been very able to make Yao a great center.


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## CbobbyB (Feb 16, 2006)

yea, steve is better on the recieving end


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## jworth (Feb 17, 2006)

McGrady has definitely been good in getting the ball to Yao, but I don't think Francis should get all of the blame in not getting Yao the ball those first two years. Yao wasn't ready for many looks at that point. He just wasn't in the physical condition yet, and Francis was just trying to play the fast pace game with a lineup of athletes. Lets not forget that when Francis was in Houston the team's biggest strength was to get out and run--slowing things down and giving the ball to Yao wasn't the team's biggest strength at that time.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Wonder how steve feels about this


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## Demiloy (Nov 4, 2005)

Hbwoy said:


> Wonder how steve feels about this


 He deserves it, the shameless ballhog.


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## The_Franchise (Mar 30, 2003)

Hakeem said:


> Not sure I agree with that "big men tend to peak late" thing. It took Olajuwon 8 years to officially reach 26 ppg, but he wasn't really any better a player than he was 4 years earlier, at the age of 26. 25 ppg in 37 mpg is pretty much the same as 26 ppg in 40 mpg, and that's ignoring the fact that his supporting cast was weaker in '89. It's a similar thing with Shaq. He was as good in '94 or '95 as he was in 2000, only he became a better passer later. It seems that most big men reach their primes at around 26-27, rather than 29. But then again, Yao has played relatively little basketball in the U.S.


IMO Hakeem became a much more fundamentally sound player later in his career, developing consistent go-to moves and finally passing the ball. Even if the statistical difference isn't that great, it was the array of offensive moves Hakeem kept adding to his arsenal each summer that made him so much better. 

Every big man's jumper improves over time and the high post game is what can make Yao a 24+ ppg scorer. I can't see him going past 21 or 22 ppg if he can't score within the flow of the offense and is slow to get his shot off... once he develops that deep mid-range jumper and starts holding on to the ball (which he has done a very good job of this year), Yao automatically gains the trusts of his coach and teammates which leads to an increase in touches. And since Yao isn't really a player that relies on athleticism, I can see him peaking deep into his 20's and early 30's.


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## Demiloy (Nov 4, 2005)

Mr. Roger's Cardigan said:


> IMO Hakeem became a much more fundamentally sound player later in his career, developing consistent go-to moves and finally passing the ball. Even if the statistical difference isn't that great, it was the array of offensive moves Hakeem kept adding to his arsenal each summer that made him so much better.
> 
> Every big man's jumper improves over time and the high post game is what can make Yao a 24+ ppg scorer. I can't see him going past 21 or 22 ppg if he can't score within the flow of the offense and is slow to get his shot off... once he develops that deep mid-range jumper and starts holding on to the ball (which he has done a very good job of this year), Yao automatically gains the trusts of his coach and teammates which leads to an increase in touches. And since Yao isn't really a player that relies on athleticism, I can see him peaking deep into his 20's and early 30's.


 Developing his mid-range jumper...I think Yao has a jumper already. Maybe not as great 2 or 3 years ago due to lack of use, but it's definitely a weapon for him.

At this point, I think it's a matter of Yao adjusting to the fact that, as a 20/10 player, his team needs him every night, and that he needs to bring out his best stuff every game, for 48 minutes. Once he can consistenly lead his team, I think he has it made.


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## Hakeem (Aug 12, 2004)

Mr. Roger's Cardigan said:


> IMO Hakeem became a much more fundamentally sound player later in his career, developing consistent go-to moves and finally passing the ball. Even if the statistical difference isn't that great, it was the array of offensive moves Hakeem kept adding to his arsenal each summer that made him so much better.


He was definitely more fundamentally sound later, and he had more moves and his jumper got better and he bulked up, but he could no longer just dunk on everyone's heads. He wasn't as quick. He couldn't score as well on the break. So, overall, I think he was roughly the same in terms of offensive impact. He was a better passer later, but he wouldn't be able to get all those easy baskets on the break and off offensive rebounds. Also, as we are seeing with Yao this season, a big man's play is dependent on the quality of his teammates. That's magnified now with the zone, but it was always the case. Surround a center with shooters, and defenses can't collapse on him as much. Give him a penetrator or two, and he's on his way to an MVP season.

You're right about Yao not relying on his athleticism, but I'm worried about how long he can remain healthy. Guys his size can't be expected to have very long careers. A lot of pressure on the knees. 
He has a surprisingly well-developed low post game, but he needs to react to the double more quickly, improve his passing to the perimeter, refine that turnaround jumper, and, like you said, improve his high post game. That's very achievable. So, even if my own prospects aren't great, I'm looking forward to the future.


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