# When Will Anthony Bennett Score His First Basket?



## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

Today @ Milwaukee?
Friday @ Philadelphia?
Saturday vs. Philadelphia?

After that?

What's going on with him. I know he hasn't had a ton of minutes, but through four games, he's 0/15. He's the #1 pick and this is the production he's been giving them so far? He needs to score a bucket or two already and boost his confidence because this is awful so far.


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## LeGoat06 (Jun 24, 2013)

He was a reach number 1 pick in one of the worst drafts on paper I can remember.


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## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

Today.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

After he breaks the Jacque Vaughn record. 


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

March

I remember when Yao Ming went scoreless in his debut and people jumped on him. This guy has gone a whole week.


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## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

He's 0-7 on 2's and 0-8 on 3's. Why is he shooting more from 3 than 2 when he's off and nervous? Seems like he doesn't understand his role.


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## roux (Jun 20, 2006)

He will get it tonight


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

RollWithEm said:


> He's 0-7 on 2's and 0-8 on 3's. Why is he shooting more from 3 than 2 when he's off and nervous? Seems like he doesn't understand his role.


Because he doesn't have to make an aggressive move to make a 3. He lost the ball just posting up against Minnesota.

I never seen him play until that game. But he doesn't look athletic or fluid at all. 


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

He's coming off of some sort of injury isn't he?

Dude was one hell of a reach. I'd have taken Oladipo or someone I knew was going to be a good pro.


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## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

And if you were going to go out on a limb on someone with upside rather than a sure thing prospect like Oldaipo, wouldn't you have just gone with Noel or Ben McLemore?


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## LeGoat06 (Jun 24, 2013)

RollWithEm said:


> And if you were going to go out on a limb on someone with upside rather than a sure thing prospect like Oldaipo, wouldn't you have just gone with Noel or Ben McLemore?


Yepppp


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## LeGoat06 (Jun 24, 2013)

I can't even begin to explain how surprised I was when they announced Bennetts name


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## ChrisWoj (May 17, 2005)

I was jaw agape "Whaaa... duh... fuh....." I couldn't finish words. I really barely expected him to wind up in the top 5 when all was said and done. Cleveland hasn't been too poor with their lottery picks, so one this potentially bad is out of the norm. Waiters and Thompson will both be rotation players, and capable of being that for serious contenders. Irving has a chance to be a superstar (though until he starts playing defense, he's tremendously overrated, but that's usually not something you see out of guys even at his level until around their third or fourth year in the league).

I mean if he performs at the best we can expect from him.. he's a three that can shoot, but isn't athletic enough to really compete at his fitness level? He's going to Oliver Miller his ass out of the league in 6-8 years.


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

Having not seen a Cavs game this season, this is _not_ a Derrick Williams situation in that he's a tweener forward who's playing at three when he's really more of an undersized four, is it? They've been playing him exclusively at power forward, correct?

And if he's playing power forward, why is he launching threes at all, much less more threes than twos?

And if he's a power forward, why would they have even drafted him in the first place when they have Tristan Thompson, who can't slide over to center to accommodate Bennett in the starting lineup, and a productive (albeit injury prone) vet like Varejao?

And then they went out and signed power forward Earl Clark so they could convert him to small forward in disastrous fashion...

The Cavs just don't make sense. With stories about Nerlens Noel's knee and inner circle coming out near the end of the draft process, Victor Oladipo was the clear pick at No. 1, and this isn't hindsight.

Bennett is averaging 1.4 points and 5.0 fouls _per 36 minutes_.


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## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

They drafted another PF despite loving Thompson because they couldn't logically take another SG (Oladipo) despite loving Waiters. Makes perfect sense to me.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

Cinco de Mayo said:


> Having not seen a Cavs game this season, this is _not_ a Derrick Williams situation in that he's a tweener forward who's playing at three when he's really more of an undersized four, is it? They've been playing him exclusively at power forward, correct?
> 
> And if he's playing power forward, why is he launching threes at all, much less more threes than twos?
> 
> ...


They're playing him at the 4 exclusively. Williams maybe a tweener but he has ball skills and is an athletic freak at least. Bennett looked unathletic for a 4 and hasn't shown the ability to do anything better than average. He reminded me of AMMO. But again I've seen the guy ten minutes. 

You mentioned Yao, you should read the posts in durant in his rookie year on here. Or worse, hkf calling Westbrook a "bad nbdl level player" on offense.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

The pick didn't make sense at the time and it doesn't make sense now. Regardless of how he progresses I bet that Tristan Thompson will always be better. 

Really, really bad pick for the cavs.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

He scored tonight.


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## scdn (Mar 31, 2011)

I can't hate. He's from my hometown Brampton. So, is Tristan.


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## roux (Jun 20, 2006)

Basel said:


> He scored tonight.


Wide open three.. still at 1-5 on the night which makes him 1-21 on the season..not good


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

he plays like Antoine Walker


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## scdn (Mar 31, 2011)

He needs to work on his own type of Shimmy.


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## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)




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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

Well he didn't break Jacque Vaughn's record. Thanks a lot Milwaukee Sucks.

BTW this wasn't his first points, Basels post made it seem like it was.


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## jayk009 (Aug 6, 2003)

slow start should have been expected..He's coming off an injury and he's out of shape...I have a feeling his rooke year will be pretty bad, but will be alot better next year assuming his confidence doesn't get killed


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

I think he may go down as one of the biggest busts ever. Tweener 4s rarely work out. Tyrus Thomas, Michael Beasley, Derrick Williams, Ike Diogu, Marcus Fizer. For every ten 6-7/6-8 power forwards you end up with one Carlos Boozer and he's still no #1 pick. I just don't understand why Cavs drafted him.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

seifer0406 said:


> I think he may go down as one of the biggest busts ever. Tweener 4s rarely work out. Tyrus Thomas, Michael Beasley, Derrick Williams, Ike Diogu, Marcus Fizer. For every ten 6-7/6-8 power forwards you end up with one Carlos Boozer and he's still no #1 pick. I just don't understand why Cavs drafted him.


I dont understand why you drafted him and thought he was the second best rookie in fantasy basketball.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

Jamel Irief said:


> I dont understand why you drafted him and thought he was the second best rookie in fantasy basketball.


#1. I didn't think he was the 2nd best rookie, I just thought he had the 2nd best situation to perform this year. I was wrong.

#2. Great fantasy player doesn't always mean great NBA player.


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## Geaux Tigers (Apr 26, 2004)

scdn said:


> He needs to work on his own type of Shimmy.


I think thats putting the cart before the horse. He should work on his game first.


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## Geaux Tigers (Apr 26, 2004)

I was actually high on his game coming into the draft. Absolutely surprised he was picked first, and now pretty sure he might go down as one of the worst busts of all time. I mean this guy is likely to make Michael Olowokandi and Kwame Brown look like Hall of Famers. I mean, I might even rather JaMarcus Russell at this point.


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## XxIrvingxX (Apr 23, 2012)

It's pretty disappointing to see how bad he's been performing so far, especially considering the type of talent the Cavaliers have this season. They have been playing great defense as a team despite their game last night against the Bucks. A great 1st pick is exactly what could have established them as one of the top teams in the east but instead they are stuck with a huge potential bust (although I don't think it's fair to call him one of the all time biggest busts, considering how not many people had much hope for him to be the top player coming out of the draft this season, Cavaliers should have never drafted him at #1).


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

Yeah, calling him an all time bust five games in is beyond stupid. 


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Geaux Tigers said:


> I was actually high on his game coming into the draft. Absolutely surprised he was picked first, and now pretty sure he might go down as one of the worst busts of all time. I mean this guy is likely to make Michael Olowokandi and Kwame Brown look like Hall of Famers. I mean, I might even rather JaMarcus Russell at this point.


5 games man. Kandi and Kwame were so bad that they became "Well, they're tall I guess." and they kept roster spots as backup defensive bigs.

Bennett has the tools to be a decent starter. Oladipo would have been a better pick, but its not like it was an overly impressive draft.


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## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

R-Star said:


> its not like it was an overly impressive draft.


This should not be forgotten in this discussion.


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## zanshadow (Jun 26, 2013)

Thanks to the miraculous 3 pointer, now he has a field goal made finally. But 1 for 20 start is horrific indeed. I hear a lot of people saying it's his weight and conditioning. Even then it's still disappointing to hear that #1 pick is in such a horrible shape. One certainly could question motivation and wills whether it be for himself or team or his trainers.

I don't think Cavaliers are in tank mode but wanting to make the playoffs. This signals for limited minutes and roles for Bennett entire way, unless he finds a way to contribute. It might have been nicer for him if he was drafted by the team that would let him loose like a horse in mating season.


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## Geaux Tigers (Apr 26, 2004)

I said might!

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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

RollWithEm said:


> This should not be forgotten in this discussion.


Yeah, at the time I said they should deal the pick. I think Bennet will be an NBA rotation player, but as a Carl Landry type. They could have got better value by trading it for a real sidekick for Irving.


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## Geaux Tigers (Apr 26, 2004)

Saying it wasn't an overly impressive draft doesn't help. He was a reach in an unimpressive draft! If that's the draft you were handed it might make sense to go with a more known commodity. Ya know like a starter too

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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

Unimpressive draft or not, any NBA player should probably be shooting better than 1-for-21 from the field, much less the No. 1 overall pick.


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

Even in a shitty draft, he was too risky to take #1. 


I was happy he was off the board for the Suns however.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

This guy will go down as a bigger bust than Kwame Brown. Good Job Ohio!


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## jayk009 (Aug 6, 2003)

well I think he's having a historically bad start to the season..

shooting 4.8% from the field at the moment...


I still say it's way too early to judge him as a player..Let's wait to see him fully in shape in rhythm and with confidence...


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

I'd say it was probably pre-shot clock era that _anyone_ has ever made a field goal and had a number less than _.050_ as his _season_ shooting percentage.

Basketball-reference can't seem to find anyone that has ever shot higher than .000 but less than .050 for the season at any point during the season after 1985-86.


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## Geaux Tigers (Apr 26, 2004)

The thing about busts is that you can't blame the player, but you can blame the team. If Anthony Bennett turns out to be okay, it probably won't be in a Cavs uniform. This pick likely set your franchise back years...at least thats my early opinion.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

Geaux Tigers said:


> The thing about busts is that you can't blame the player, but you can blame the team. If Anthony Bennett turns out to be okay, it probably won't be in a Cavs uniform. This pick likely set your franchise back years...at least thats my early opinion.


I said at the time they should have been using it as a trade chit. Using a #1 pick on a Carl Landry level player is pretty much always destined to end in tears.


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## scdn (Mar 31, 2011)

I don't think many teams were lining up to trade up to get the #1 pick. Probably had negative value in a sense, as you had to pay a guy #1 money who was just as good as #21.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

scdn said:


> I don't think many teams were lining up to trade up to get the #1 pick. Probably had negative value in a sense, as you had to pay a guy #1 money who was just as good as #21.


He's only as good as #21 because he sucks. Oladipo was pretty highly regarded and I'm sure they could have got something, _anything_ for his draft rights. Christ I'm sure Boston would have given them Green for #1, and that'd look a lot better for the Cavs.


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## scdn (Mar 31, 2011)

I doubt trading the #1 for a player like Green would have been well received on draft night and during the offseason.


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## Geaux Tigers (Apr 26, 2004)

scdn said:


> I doubt trading the #1 for a player like Green would have been well received on draft night and during the offseason.


Yeah Anthony Bennett is being received so well right now...the only reason he's not being tarred and feathered is because of the mysterious "upside." The concept of potential is keeping this man alive despite showing none of it on a team that could use his "services"


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

Cinco de Mayo said:


> I'd say it was probably pre-shot clock era that _anyone_ has ever made a field goal and had a number less than _.050_ as his _season_ shooting percentage.
> 
> Basketball-reference can't seem to find anyone that has ever shot higher than .000 but less than .050 for the season at any point during the season after 1985-86.


Basketball-reference isn't as good as an archivist.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/v/vaughja01/gamelog/2002/

Started the season 0-20 and then 1-25. I only referenced it like three times in this thread.


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## scdn (Mar 31, 2011)

Geaux Tigers said:


> Yeah Anthony Bennett is being received so well right now...the only reason he's not being tarred and feathered is because of the mysterious "upside." The concept of potential is keeping this man alive despite showing none of it on a team that could use his "services"


The trade wouldn't have been viewed as Anthony Bennett for Jeff Green. It would have been Cavaliers trade 1st overall pick for Jeff Green.


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## Geaux Tigers (Apr 26, 2004)

scdn said:


> The trade wouldn't have been viewed as Anthony Bennett for Jeff Green. It would have been Cavaliers trade 1st overall pick for Jeff Green.


True dat


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

No one cares about Vaughn because he wasn't drafted number one in the NBA draft. Were talking about the number one NBA draft pick in the lottery with Bennet. This dude is going to be lucky to have a career even close to what Kwame Brown delivered. BUST!


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

77AJ said:


> No one cares about Vaughn because he wasn't drafted number one in the NBA draft. Were talking about the number one NBA draft pick in the lottery with Bennet. This dude is going to be lucky to have a career even close to what Kwame Brown delivered. BUST!


Way to not follow the conversation. 


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

scdn said:


> I doubt trading the #1 for a player like Green would have been well received on draft night and during the offseason.


Yeah, drafting Bennet has worked out so much better for them.


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## scdn (Mar 31, 2011)

Sometimes teams make mistakes. I'm not debating Bennett has not played bad, just that there would have been no trades worth making instead of drafting him.

Guess Blazers should have traded the 1st overall pick for Mehmet Okur as drafting Oden worked out so well for them.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

I bet you if Portland had put #1 on the block they would have got a king's ransom for it. And yes, if Cleveland had put #1 on the block, they would have gotten offers for Victor Oladipo. Christ alive New Orleans got Jrue Holiday for #7, so don't give me this bullshit that no one would have traded for #1.


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## scdn (Mar 31, 2011)

Would have needed more than Jeff Green to do it though.


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## XxIrvingxX (Apr 23, 2012)

Hmm...Bennett scored three times apparently. I wonder how much they will over emphasize this on the Cavaliers website.


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

Jamel Irief said:


> Basketball-reference isn't as good as an archivist.
> 
> http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/v/vaughja01/gamelog/2002/
> 
> Started the season 0-20 and then 1-25. I only referenced it like three times in this thread.


I usually skim your posts when they're not about mods.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

The decision to draft Bennett was conceptually wrong. You just don't draft 6-7/6-8 power forwards at #1. If Bennett pans out he would be the only current great 6-7/6-8 power forward in the league. If he doesn't he would join a group of tweener power forwards that failed to perform.

When the Cavs drafted Bennett they basically took 2 risks - drafting a tweener and drafting a player who most scouts considered to be not the best in the draft class.


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## michelangelo (Apr 29, 2009)

I knew this kid would be a bust. He's fat, can't breathe, and too short to play the 4. Obvious bust is obvious.


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## XxIrvingxX (Apr 23, 2012)

seifer0406 said:


> The decision to draft Bennett was conceptually wrong. You just don't draft 6-7/6-8 power forwards at #1. If Bennett pans out he would be the only current great 6-7/6-8 power forward in the league. If he doesn't he would join a group of tweener power forwards that failed to perform.
> 
> When the Cavs drafted Bennett they basically took 2 risks - drafting a tweener and drafting a player who most scouts considered to be not the best in the draft class.


I think they also blew any chance they had of being a dominant team this year with that pick. With a great defensive coach and great defensive players that compliment his system such as Bynum, Varejao and Thompson, a franchise player in Irving (and when he's back to playing a large amount of minutes for a consistent period of time, Bynum could also be a franchise player), and great offensive talents in Waiters, Jack, Miles (again, surprisingly) and Gee (well, at times anyways), the Cavaliers had a huge opportunity to make an outstanding team with so much young talent by finishing out the process with a great first pick (despite the fact that the draft wasn't stacked at all this year).


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

seifer0406 said:


> The decision to draft Bennett was conceptually wrong. You just don't draft 6-7/6-8 power forwards at #1. If Bennett pans out he would be the only current great 6-7/6-8 power forward in the league. If he doesn't he would join a group of tweener power forwards that failed to perform.
> 
> When the Cavs drafted Bennett they basically took 2 risks - drafting a tweener and drafting a player who most scouts considered to be not the best in the draft class.


Just curious, but do you not consider Boozer or Faried to be great players?




Cinco de Mayo said:


> I usually skim your posts when they're not about mods.


I think you meant to say ignore, considering I had a 6 word post in this thread and two of the words were "Jacque Vaughn."


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## Knick Killer (Jul 16, 2006)

The kid has looked like shit but it's not even 10 games into the season give the guy a break. The Cavs knew he was raw when they took him so give the guy a couple years before using the B word.


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## XxIrvingxX (Apr 23, 2012)

Knick Killer said:


> The kid has looked like shit but it's not even 10 games into the season give the guy a break. The Cavs knew he was raw when they took him so give the guy a couple years before using the B word.
> 
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


I'm not saying he's necessarily going to be a bust, yet, but I think the Cavaliers blew their chance of being a great playoff team this year by drafting him. Who knows, he might turn out to be the player they need next year and Lebron could join back as well, but if the Cavaliers don't go far this season I imagine part of the reason for that is what they could have gained but instead lost due to who they picked at number 1. Idk, he scored three times last night, so we'll have to wait and see where he goes.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

Your only a bust relative to your draft position AND who was drafted after. Bogust is a bust, Kenyon Martin is not.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

scdn said:


> Would have needed more than Jeff Green to do it though.


I'm not sure what that has to do with your claim that it was impossible to trade a lottery pick last June when, in fact, someone did trade one for a borderline all star.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

E.H. Munro said:


> I'm not sure what that has to do with your claim that it was impossible to trade a lottery pick last June when, in fact, someone did trade one for a borderline all star.


Holiday is not a borderline all star, he is an all star. On top of that it was the 6th pick, not the first.


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## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

Jamel Irief said:


> Holiday is not a borderline all star, he is an all star. On top of that it was the 6th pick, not the first.


I have a hard time seeing Holiday as a shoo-in for any more all-star games. He might play in some more, but he might never appear in another one. Is that not what a borderline all-star is?


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## scdn (Mar 31, 2011)

Well Cavaliers already had Irving at PG, trading for Jrue would not have made sense, regardless of value.

And your claims are just conjecture, as the pick was not traded.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

Jamel Irief said:


> Holiday is not a borderline all star, he is an all star. On top of that it was the 6th pick, not the first.


Who cares? The claim was that it was impossible to trade a lottery pick last year for value, everyone has excuses for why the Holiday trade shouldn't count, but the reality is that it's just people making excuses for mismanagement. Yes, the Cavs would have been able to trade #1 because Oladipo was pretty highly regarded by draft time. Cleveland wouldn't have had a problem dealing #1 to get some help for Irving.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

E.H. Munro said:


> Who cares? The claim was that it was impossible to trade a lottery pick last year for value, everyone has excuses for why the Holiday trade shouldn't count, but the reality is that it's just people making excuses for mismanagement. Yes, the Cavs would have been able to trade #1 because Oladipo was pretty highly regarded by draft time. Cleveland wouldn't have had a problem dealing #1 to get some help for Irving.


In that case if I'm the Lakers and I end up with the 11th pick or so I'm calling the Hornets and trying to get Holliday. Granted the last two times they were in the lottery the got all-stars, but still.


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## scdn (Mar 31, 2011)

Was just reading some articles post 2013 draft and the Cavs tried to trade the pick to get all stars. They offered it to the Blazers for LMA, and the Timberwolves for Kevin Love. So obviously it wasn't that highly coveted for those teams to trade their all-stars for it.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

Jamel Irief said:


> In that case if I'm the Lakers and I end up with the 11th pick or so I'm calling the Hornets and trying to get Holliday. Granted the last two times they were in the lottery the got all-stars, but still.


I'm not even sure what that has to do with anything. And since the Hornets won't be returning until 2015, and there's no player of that name on Charlotte's roster, who are we discussing? Gerald Jr? Michael Kidd-Gilchrist?


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

scdn said:


> Was just reading some articles post 2013 draft and the Cavs tried to trade the pick to get all stars. They offered it to the Blazers for LMA, and the Timberwolves for Kevin Love. So obviously it wasn't that highly coveted for those teams to trade their all-stars for it.


Yeah, so they offered the pick for superstars and got rejected, so therefore it was impossible to trade the pick even though someone traded one five spots later for a borderline all-star? Was there some magic about a mid-lottery pick?


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## scdn (Mar 31, 2011)

E.H. Munro said:


> Yeah, so they offered the pick for superstars and got rejected, so therefore it was impossible to trade the pick even though someone traded one five spots later for a borderline all-star? Was there some magic about a mid-lottery pick?


Well if the #6 gets a borderline all-star, shouldn't the #1 be able to get a better than borderline all-star such as LMA.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

scdn said:


> Well if the #6 gets a borderline all-star, shouldn't the #1 be able to get a better than borderline all-star such as LMA.


This is what he's not understanding. To him lotto pick is all one in the same. 


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

E.H. Munro said:


> I'm not even sure what that has to do with anything. And since the Hornets won't be returning until 2015, and there's no player of that name on Charlotte's roster, who are we discussing? Gerald Jr? Michael Kidd-Gilchrist?


I'm sure everyone reading it must of assumed I got the player name wrong and not the team name, just like you. You're not special. 


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

Jamel Irief said:


> Just curious, but do you not consider Boozer or Faried to be great players?


If I remember correctly Boozer is 6-9 with shoes. Even if he is undersized he is only slightly under, not nearly to the extent that Bennett is. 

Kenneth Faried is not a great player. He is a very good player but not worth a top 5 pick in most drafts, not even in a draft as weak as this year's.


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## michelangelo (Apr 29, 2009)

Bennett is 6'7" WITH shoes.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Anthony-Bennett-5866/



seifer0406 said:


> If I remember correctly Boozer is 6-9 with shoes. Even if he is undersized he is only slightly under, not nearly to the extent that Bennett is.
> 
> Kenneth Faried is not a great player. He is a very good player but not worth a top 5 pick in most drafts, not even in a draft as weak as this year's.


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## michelangelo (Apr 29, 2009)

No. 1 picks don't get a break. He's getting paid $5.3 million this season to perform, not score 1 pt a game. 




Knick Killer said:


> The kid has looked like shit but it's not even 10 games into the season give the guy a break. The Cavs knew he was raw when they took him so give the guy a couple years before using the B word.
> 
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

Jamel Irief said:


> This is what he's not understanding. To him lotto pick is all one in the same.


No, I think what you guys are missing is that value isn't objective. It's always relative to the players available to be drafted. So two GMs said "Thank you no" to an offer of the draft rights to a guy that projects as a top 50 player for veterans that are already top 20 ones. That doesn't mean the pick was untradeable.

The claim _you_ guys made is that it was impossible to trade the pick, yet someone else traded a later one for a pretty good player. So the Cavs could very clearly have traded the pick to get Irving some help. Keep trying to tell us all that Jrue doesn't count. But the Pelicans turned #6 into a top 50 player. I don't think it would have been excessively difficult for the Cavs to do the same.


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## scdn (Mar 31, 2011)

E.H. Munro said:


> No, I think what you guys are missing is that value isn't objective. It's always relative to the players available to be drafted. So two GMs said "Thank you no" to an offer of the draft rights to a guy that projects as a top 50 player for veterans that are already top 20 ones. That doesn't mean the pick was untradeable.
> 
> The claim _you_ guys made is that it was impossible to trade the pick, yet someone else traded a later one for a pretty good player. So the Cavs could very clearly have traded the pick to get Irving some help. Keep trying to tell us all that Jrue doesn't count. But the Pelicans turned #6 into a top 50 player. I don't think it would have been excessively difficult for the Cavs to do the same.


Aren't top 20 guys in the top 50? So they could not trade a HIGHER pick for those top 50 players. List your top 50 then and see which player they could have got for that pick.

Also you claimed at first they should have traded it for a non top 50 player in Jeff Green. So pick 6 gets a top 50 player, but #1 should settle for a top 200 player? Top 250?


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

I think you left off the "if nothing else" in your lame attempt to outjamel Jamel.


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## kbdullah (Jul 8, 2010)

DNP-Coach's Decision tonight vs the Pelicans...


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## Geaux Tigers (Apr 26, 2004)

I dont know why I take such delight in how bad this pick was. I didn't think it was going to be this bad when he was picked, but I find myself rooting for him to never score. I dont even know why because I don't dislike him or the Cavs...I have no connection to this at all, but bring on the chaos.


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## c_dog (Sep 15, 2002)

I honestly think the cavs drafted bennett by mistake. a drunken scout(or maybe he was simply an idiot) couldn't remember that they were still in 2013 and not 2014 suggested drafting that "canadian" whose name starts An-something... Anton, Andy, Anthony, Andrew, whatever it was. They were obviously thinking of Andrew Wiggins but made the mistake that Anthony Bennett was him. It wasn't until the media made a big deal that Bennett was the first Canadian to ever be drafted #1 overall before Andrew Wiggins that they realized their mistake.

(this is all my speculation but this is the only feasible explanation)


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

I haven't watched much of the Cavs so someone explain to me why he's so bad so far. Does he have zero inside game? I know he's been shooting triples (and missing them). What does he do well, if anything?


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## Geaux Tigers (Apr 26, 2004)

Basel said:


> I haven't watched much of the Cavs so someone explain to me why he's so bad so far. Does he have zero inside game? I know he's been shooting triples (and missing them). What does he do well, if anything?


His form while tossing Anderson Varejao the towel is flawless.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

Basel said:


> I haven't watched much of the Cavs so someone explain to me why he's so bad so far. Does he have zero inside game? I know he's been shooting triples (and missing them). What does he do well, if anything?


If he had waited until 2014 he would have been a low first and probably playing better because there'd be no pressure from his team to live up to the #1 billing and not be pressuring himself to play better than he's actually capable of. 

His upside is backup PF and offense guy off the bench. But the Cavs can't really say to their fans "We blew it, we should have traded the pick instead of drafting the poor man's Carl Landry". So they'll continue to push him and he'll continue to try to be more than a roleplayer. At this point I'll be shocked if he makes it through his rookie deal in Cleveland. (And to forestall the pitjamel from attacking I expect the Cavs to insist on him being included in a trade at some point so that they can justify the selection that way.)


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## LA68 (Apr 3, 2004)

How about the kid get in shape first ? At least do that ! When a guy is so young and already out of shape, that's a red flag right there. Get in shape and hustle, be a Faried. That's the least he could do. Then he would get court time.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

He isn't as athletic as Faried. Like I said, he could be a decent backup PF. But that's his upside.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Way, and I mean waaaaay to early to write this kid off as a poor mans Landry EH.

Even if he ends up being a complete failure, that's more on luck, not some prediction from anyone. 15 games of a rookie doesn't make their whole career.


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## LeGoat06 (Jun 24, 2013)

I'm rooting for him now because all of you guys aren't


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

I'm rooting against him because he's Canadian. 


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

Jamel Irief said:


> I'm rooting against him because he's Canadian.


Well, who isn't? I mean aside from those crazy Canuckians. But everyone knows they're lazy and like to steal.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

He will go down as the biggest bust in NBA History. Cleveland full of suck as usual!


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

This guy stinks. Forget living up to No. 1 status -- is he good enough to make an NBA roster?

How was someone this bad, with such mediocre credentials _before_ the draft, drafted this high?


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## XxIrvingxX (Apr 23, 2012)

GNG said:


> This guy stinks. Forget living up to No. 1 status -- is he good enough to make an NBA roster?
> 
> How was someone this bad, with such mediocre credentials _before_ the draft, drafted this high?


The Cavs have always seemed to do the wrong thing unless it's painfully obvious who they should draft (LeBron, Irving). Didn't they give away the draft pick that would end up being James Worthy?


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## ChrisWoj (May 17, 2005)

XxIrvingxX said:


> The Cavs have always seemed to do the wrong thing unless it's painfully obvious who they should draft (LeBron, Irving). Didn't they give away the draft pick that would end up being James Worthy?


Gotta give them some credit on Irving. I mean, look back at Derrick Williams' scouting reports and it is obvious that there truly was a debate at the time over the number one pick. 

Williams was athletic, was perceived as having "worked" to develop his game to where it was, was 6'9 with a 7'1 wingspan, shot 57% from the college arc, got to the line with regularity... I feel like if he'd fallen somehow to Golden State we'd be talking about him in the same tones we do Klay Thompson. Alas he wound up in the doghouse in Minnesota. What is it keeping that guy from developing? The Cavs made a huge right decision going with Irving, and his very limited though very impressive collegiate experience, and it wasn't an easy one at the time.


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## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

GNG said:


> This guy stinks. Forget living up to No. 1 status -- is he good enough to make an NBA roster?
> 
> How was someone this bad, with such mediocre credentials _before_ the draft, drafted this high?


Well, he was bad enough for Minnesota to hand over a first round pick to Atlanta for Adreain Payne.


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## ChrisWoj (May 17, 2005)

ATLien said:


> Well, he was bad enough for Minnesota to hand over a first round pick to Atlanta for Adreain Payne.


I'll go even further than GNG.... Are we talking serious challenger to the Kandiman's throne?


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## cima (Nov 6, 2003)

ChrisWoj said:


> I'll go even further than GNG.... Are we talking serious challenger to the Kandiman's throne?


I think you mean Kwame Brown. Olowokandi > Brown


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## ChrisWoj (May 17, 2005)

cima said:


> I think you mean Kwame Brown. Olowokandi > Brown


Uh no. Not a chance. I'll give you this though - Kandi's best month was better than Brown's best month.


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

ChrisWoj said:


> I'll go even further than GNG.... Are we talking serious challenger to the Kandiman's throne?


Oh, I would take Kandi over Anthony Bennett 10 times out of 10. Kwame, too. Those were talented (or at least somewhat talented) guys who didn't care. Bennett flat out can't play.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

R-Star said:


> Way, and I mean waaaaay to early to write this kid off as a poor mans Landry EH.


As it turns out I was wrong. I was way too optimistic.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

ChrisWoj said:


> I'll go even further than GNG.... Are we talking serious challenger to the Kandiman's throne?





cima said:


> I think you mean Kwame Brown. Olowokandi > Brown





ChrisWoj said:


> Uh no. Not a chance. I'll give you this though - Kandi's best month was better than Brown's best month.


LaRue martin is his competition. Kandi and kwame were both starters, double digit scorers for entire seasons and played a decade. LaRue was out of the league in four years.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

GNG said:


> Oh, I would take Kandi over Anthony Bennett 10 times out of 10. Kwame, too. Those were talented (or at least somewhat talented) guys who didn't care. Bennett flat out can't play.


sorry meant to quote this


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## cima (Nov 6, 2003)

ChrisWoj said:


> Uh no. Not a chance. I'll give you this though - Kandi's best month was better than Brown's best month.


Come on now.

Kandi: 8.3 PPG, 6.8 RPG, 1.4 BPG
Brown: 6.6 PPG, 5.5 RPG, 0.6 BPG

Kandi's best year: 12.3 PPG, 9.1 RPG, 2.2 BPG
Kwame's best year: 10.9 PPG, 7.4 RPG, 0.7 BPG

Kandi PER: 10.7
Kwame PER: 12.5

I found this hilarious though not gonna lie:

Kandi OWS: -11.3 as in NEGATIVE ELEVEN POINT THREE. ROFL
Kwame OWS: 6.7

Kandi DWS: 13.8
Kwame DWS: 14.1

I didn't realize how bad Kandi's advanced stats were. Seriously, -11.3 Offensive Win Shares is fucking hilarious.

They are both terrible though and you can make a case for either being the worst IMO.


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## cima (Nov 6, 2003)

Jamel Irief said:


> LaRue martin is his competition. Kandi and kwame were both starters, double digit scorers for entire seasons and played a decade. LaRue was out of the league in four years.


Was he injury prone?


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

Jamel Irief said:


> LaRue martin is his competition. Kandi and kwame were both starters, double digit scorers for entire seasons and played a decade. LaRue was out of the league in four years.


Exactly.

You almost never hear LaRue Martin's name when it comes to bad draft picks, probably because it was 40 years ago, but he's the all-time champion for No. 1 pick busts since the NBA has been firmly established and mattered.


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

cima said:


> Was he injury prone?


No, he just stunk and didn't seem to care about the sport. 

I believe he retired, actually, but would have washed out of the league regardless.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

cima said:


> Was he injury prone?


I honestly don't know anything about him other than he's the worst number 1 pick ever, unless Bennett changes that.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

The hilarious part is that he quit basketball to go to work for Portland's public transit system.

EDIT: Back on topic...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/613714616833720320
This seems to fit with the Boston rumours about the Celtics wanting to trade up from #28 and the ones about Portland wanting a pair of picks in the 30s for #23 .


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## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

E.H. Munro said:


> The hilarious part is that he quit basketball to go to work for Portland's public transit system.
> 
> EDIT: Back on topic...
> 
> ...


Boston would still also have 33 in that scenario, right? So they'd probably trade 31+33 to Portland?


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

I would think they would send 33/36 for #23 and keep #31 . That still beats a Philly offer.


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## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

E.H. Munro said:


> I would think they would send 33/36 for #23 and keep #31 . That still beats a Philly offer.


Either works, I suppose. If nothing else, CSNNE's coverage of Bennett and Sullinger attacking the postgame catering spread will be must-see TV.


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## ChrisWoj (May 17, 2005)

E.H. Munro said:


> The hilarious part is that he quit basketball to go to work for Portland's public transit system.
> 
> EDIT: Back on topic...
> 
> ...


Huh his Wiki says he went to work for the NBA for a time and then went to UPS where he still works.


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## ChrisWoj (May 17, 2005)

cima said:


> Come on now.
> 
> Kandi: 8.3 PPG, 6.8 RPG, 1.4 BPG
> Brown: 6.6 PPG, 5.5 RPG, 0.6 BPG
> ...


I'm actually surprised that Kandi is that close to Kwame defensively - that was the big reason I was thinking Kwame over Kandi, he's a far superior defensive player by the eye test, but its actually close by the numbers. The fact that Kwame dwarfs him so astronomically on offense... well, I didn't think Kwame would dwarf me offensively. And I'm a 5'10 white guy that didn't play past junior high.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

E.H. Munro said:


> The hilarious part is that he quit basketball to go to work for Portland's public transit system.
> 
> EDIT: Back on topic...
> 
> ...


This officially puts Bennet way ahead of Kwame and Kandi. In Kandi's fifth year Gentry made him a feature player offensively with his stupid one handed jumpers. Clipper fans going into that season were still arguing amongst each other whether or not he's been given a fair shot to thrive. The Lakers traded for Kwame after his fourth season for Caron Butler and I was basically alone in the Lakers board for saying it was a asinine trade ("Jamel has a weird Kwame hate fixtation").

Bennett meanwhile is rumored to be traded WITH two picks to move up three spots in the last first round and nobody will even blink if it happens... all after only his second season.

If you read my posts earlier in this thread I never saw anything overly appealing about the guy. Short for his position, not a stellar athlete, average touch... I mean what happened? Kandi at least played basketball late and was a shredded 7 footer that dominated his final season at UOP. Kwame also was a big athletic 18 year old with extremely quick feet. WTF did anyone see in Bennet? I never saw him play at UNLV.


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## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

Jamel Irief said:


> This officially puts Bennet way ahead of Kwame and Kandi. In Kandi's fifth year Gentry made him a feature player offensively with his stupid one handed jumpers. Clipper fans going into that season were still arguing amongst each other whether or not he's been given a fair shot to thrive. The Lakers traded for Kwame after his fourth season for Caron Butler and I was basically alone in the Lakers board for saying it was a asinine trade ("Jamel has a weird Kwame hate fixtation").
> 
> Bennett meanwhile is rumored to be traded WITH two picks to move up three spots in the last first round and nobody will even blink if it happens... all after only his second season.
> 
> If you read my posts earlier in this thread I never saw anything overly appealing about the guy. Short for his position, not a stellar athlete, average touch... I mean what happened? Kandi at least played basketball late and was a shredded 7 footer that dominated his final season at UOP. Kwame also was a big athletic 18 year old with extremely quick feet. WTF did anyone see in Bennet? I never saw him play at UNLV.


Yea, if anything Boston would be getting paid slightly for taking Bennett's contract off Minnesota's hands. Not a good sign for a #1 pick to be used as salary filler in a trade immediately after his rookie year and then wind up salary-dumped after his second. Maybe Brad Stevens can turn him into the second coming of Brandon Bass. If not.....I mean, nothing lost by taking him for free, I suppose.


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

Jamel Irief said:


> *Bennett meanwhile is rumored to be traded WITH two picks to move up three spots in the last first round* and nobody will even blink if it happens... all after only his second season.


I also found this hilarious.

People were absolutely still clinging to hidden potential in Kandi and Kwame as late as their fifth seasons. At least they were seven feet tall and weren't total stiffs among the other reasons you mentioned. 

Bennett is like if Ike Diogu wanted to be Rodney Rogers. Completely worthless. 

And it's not as if he had a bunch of college accolades like Hasheem Thabeet. An indefensible draft pick all around.


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## ThaTrigga (Jun 24, 2015)

Hi guys! 

Who do you think should have been #1 then? My gues is Oladipo, but the Cavs already had Irving. Did they envision a trade down at the time?


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## Mrs. Thang (Apr 14, 2011)

Please, please lets stop talking about offensive and defensive win shares like they represent anything measurable about reality.

Here is a site that does a better job of measuring offense and defense:
Improved Win Shares


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## ChrisWoj (May 17, 2005)

ThaTrigga said:


> Hi guys!
> 
> Who do you think should have been [URL=http://www.basketballforum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=1]#1 [/URL] then? My gues is Oladipo, but the Cavs already had Irving. Did they envision a trade down at the time?


I mean, Porter and Giannis are both clear "should have been #1 " guys in that group... especially with Porter showing something once he finally got some burn in the playoffs. Noel could have a legit argument. Oladipo had the hype at the time and the flash of being an off-guard (though some kinda thought he could be a point at the time)....

Tough call in such a horrible draft. But Anthony Bennett was both at the time AND now a complete and total shock. I can't imagine anyone arguing for him as the number one going into that draft. I never heard it. I remember stopping in at a bar just to watch that particular draft after my disc golf league and seeing it happen. In my head all I could think was "Holy shit, this is great, I wonder if another potential all star will fall to Detroit!" (this following the Monroe and Drummond drafts, and keep in mind I'm using the word POTENTIAL all star)

Right now... I think the number one pick, based on both hindsight AND what we thought at the time Oladipo probably is the most apt "should have been number one" but the other guys I mentioned all would have been more acceptable as a number. I'm not even going to mention any of the guys in the second half of the first round. Even mentioning Giannis is stretching it, nobody would have put his raw ass up there at the time. That's one reason I didn't mention Gobert, who may wind up the best player out of this draft besides Giannis.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

E.H. Munro said:


> As it turns out I was wrong. I was way too optimistic.


I was wrong.


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## ChrisWoj (May 17, 2005)

Somehow, a double post. Like an hour apart.


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## ThaTrigga (Jun 24, 2015)

Alright ChrisWoj, all in all, this Draft just sucked and was certainly a nightmare to many GMs. Bad bad bad...


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

ThaTrigga said:


> Hi guys!
> 
> Who do you think should have been #1 then? My gues is Oladipo, but the Cavs already had Irving. Did they envision a trade down at the time?


I think that most would have taken Oladipo, who quietly put up 18/4/4 and was one of the league leaders in steals at 22 years old last season.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

Noel and Oladipo were the only obvious talents on the board. The draft was atrocious.


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## ThaTrigga (Jun 24, 2015)

Oladipo is rather underrated, and so is his progression.

Anthony Bennett, I feel bad for that guy, but once in a while the number 1 pick is a bust. Somebody has to do it, no luck AB :/


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

ThaTrigga said:


> Oladipo is rather underrated, and so is his progression.
> 
> Anthony Bennett, I feel bad for that guy, but once in a while the number 1 pick is a bust. Somebody has to do it, no luck AB :/


Don't feel bad for Bennett. He'll make near $15M-$20M in his life. Feel bad for White Castle employees in Minneapolis when Bennett pulls up to the drive-thru.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

GNG said:


> Don't feel bad for Bennett. He'll make near $15M-$20M in his life. Feel bad for White Castle employees in Minneapolis when Bennett pulls up to the drive-thru.


Yeah, because having loyal customers is a bad thing. :|


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## ThaTrigga (Jun 24, 2015)

But he looks fit now, so I guess he does _drive through_ when he pays White Castle a visit!


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

Porn Player said:


> Yeah, because having loyal customers is a bad thing. :|


Yeah, I'd feel bad for them after he gets traded and their profits go down, leading to pay cuts...


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

E.H. Munro said:


> Yeah, I'd feel bad for them after he gets traded and their profits go down, leading to pay cuts...


Pay cuts, then the entire store has to close leading to the collapse of the entire chain. Unemployment goes through the roof and Obama is ousted.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

Jamel Irief said:


> If you read my posts earlier in this thread I never saw anything overly appealing about the guy. Short for his position, not a stellar athlete, average touch... I mean what happened? Kandi at least played basketball late and was a shredded 7 footer that dominated his final season at UOP. Kwame also was a big athletic 18 year old with extremely quick feet. WTF did anyone see in Bennet? I never saw him play at UNLV.


I agreed with you. I got torched for saying they would have been better off dealing the pick for Jeff Green than taking him. I liked him at UNLV, but he was the classic "guy built to succeed at the college level that has no NBA future". 

You can be a starting 6'7" PF in a second tier college conference. It's a lot harder in the NBA if you don't have fantastic length, or athleticism, or a relentless motor. And Bennett clearly has none of that. At the time I said his upside was Brandon Bass, and it probably still is if he starts busting ass. But jesus could they have got a lot more than that by putting Oladipo up for bids (or, in retrospect, promisng Smart #1 , and thank christ they didn't).


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