# Asik also signed



## narek (Jul 29, 2005)

> The Bulls also reached agreement on a deal with big man Omer Asik of Turkey. Asik will play for Turkey in the World Championships and will not be with the team until then. The Bulls are quietly optimistic about Asik and believe he can be a high level reserve behind Joakim Noah, which reduces their concern about adding another big man.
> 
> As a result, the Bulls are in discussions with several other free agent shooters and are expected to make another offer soon.


http://www.nba.com/bulls/news/smith_korver_100709.html


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## King Joseus (May 26, 2003)

narek said:


> http://www.nba.com/bulls/news/smith_korver_100709.html


Sweet! Nice find, narek!


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

So far I'm two for two on my predictions, once the Lebron house of cards fell I said the Bulls where going to get Korver and would bring back Asik, I still think they need another big man like Brad Miller just in case Asik is Turkish for Tarlac. Maybe Ronnie Brewer will get a look to maybe compete for the starting 2 spot if we cant find a legit starter via trade.


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

I like this move a lot too. I was really hoping that we would bring him over. Not because I know much about him or anything. But just because it most likeley means that we think he has progressed well and is able to contribute. Good sign for us.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

caseyrh said:


> I like this move a lot too. I was really hoping that we would bring him over. Not because I know much about him or anything. But just because it most likeley means that we think he has progressed well and is able to contribute. Good sign for us.


Well he was injured A LOT while overseas so I dont think the Bulls feel like hes all that ready to come over. I think its a cheap option and money played a huge role in why he was not even here last year, now that there really is not much of a need to hold on to all the money they will give him a shot and see if they can get something out of him this year.


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## Bulls42 (Jul 22, 2002)

He is not good at anything from what I've read and seen. He is a much worse version of Brad Miller. He is well-below Aaron Gray, Dragan Tarlac and Dalibor Bagaric. No joke.


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## mvP to the Wee (Jul 14, 2007)

Asik reminds me of Andris Biedrins. Horrible free throw shooter, but excels at blocking shots and rebounding. Should never be relied upon offensively but can get the garbage points. Had he entered his name in the draft this year, he was expected to be a lottery pick.


Now our targets should be: 1)Ronnie Brewer 2)Eddie House


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

Bulls42 said:


> He is not good at anything from what I've read and seen. He is a much worse version of Brad Miller. He is well-below Aaron Gray, Dragan Tarlac and Dalibor Bagaric. No joke.


Come on now, lol. Asik could of course be a bust, but he is nothing like Miller/Gray/Tarlac. You are comparing Asik to some of the least athletic 7-footers the league has ever seen. Asik is a VERY good athlete and very long; had something like a 9'5 standing reach. At the very least he'll be able to block shots and run the floor. He's closer to Tyson Chandler than Brad Miller.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

P to the Wee said:


> Asik reminds me of Andris Biedrins. Horrible free throw shooter, but excels at blocking shots and rebounding. Should never be relied upon offensively but can get the garbage points. Had he entered his name in the draft this year, he was expected to be a lottery pick.


Yeah, that's another good comparison.


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

Bulls42 said:


> He is not good at anything from what I've read and seen. He is a much worse version of Brad Miller. He is well-below Aaron Gray, Dragan Tarlac and Dalibor Bagaric. No joke.


European scout?

Or did you just spend 2 minutes rummaging through youtube clips?


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

caseyrh said:


> European scout?
> 
> Or did you just spend 2 minutes rummaging through youtube clips?


How bout 14 seconds lol.


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## Bulls42 (Jul 22, 2002)

Yeah, you guys are right. I'm hating for no reason.
Other than the fact that he really does suck. I have friends in Europe that watched him play and they relayed this info.
A 6'11, 230-pound center with absolutely no upper or lower body strength, no athleticism (he is much less athletic than Brad Miller-fact), averages 6 turnovers per 48 minutes, is injury prone, has not shown any progress in the last 3 years. Great, he averaged a little over a block a game in the Euroleague. So what? WHO IS SAYING HE IS A VERY GOOD ATHLETE??!!! Having long arms does not make you a good athlete.
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Omer-Asik-5033/


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

Bulls42 said:


> Yeah, you guys are right. I'm hating for no reason.
> Other than the fact that he really does suck. I have friends in Europe that watched him play and they relayed this info.
> A 6'11, 230-pound center with absolutely no upper or lower body strength, no athleticism (he is much less athletic than Brad Miller-fact), averages 6 turnovers per 48 minutes, is injury prone, has not shown any progress in the last 3 years. Great, he averaged a little over a block a game in the Euroleague. So what? WHO IS SAYING HE IS A VERY GOOD ATHLETE??!!! Having long arms does not make you a good athlete.
> http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Omer-Asik-5033/



I love the following quote:



> I have friends in Europe that watched him play and they relayed this info.


Hilarious.


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## Bulls42 (Jul 22, 2002)

Glad you found it amusing. Unfortunately for Bulls fans, it's all true. You shall see and you will remember my words.
I'd offer Joel Anthony 2mill per which will be nore than the 700k the Heat offer.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

The only way Bulls fans will regret Asik is if the Bulls are paying him like 3 mill a year or if we have to play him big minutes. I was never sold on him, never impressed by his abilities but hes a big body and we need them right now.


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

Bulls42 said:


> Glad you found it amusing. Unfortunately for Bulls fans, it's all true. You shall see and you will remember my words.
> I'd offer Joel Anthony 2mill per which will be nore than the 700k the Heat offer.


Who cares? You act like your going to be recognized as some international scout if Omer Asik doesn't pan out. 

The guy probably signed for peanuts. It's not like there is high expectations for this guy. It's easy to say he won't be any good because that is the expected outcome. We don't need your european friends who watch basketball games to tell us that. 

I'm hoping he has a ceiling that allows him to contribute 15 solid minutes a night. I realize that he likeley won't be able to do that. But to me the fact that we signed him to a deal means we probably see something of value in him. Who knows maybe we are really big on him. Regardless I still expect us to address Backup C at some point in the FA. Likeley even with B. Miller.

We are going to be a very good team in the NBA for the next 5 years.

Stop Hating.


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## Kneepad (Jun 24, 2002)

caseyrh said:


> Who cares? You act like your going to be recognized as some international scout if Omer Asik doesn't pan out.
> 
> The guy probably signed for peanuts. It's not like there is high expectations for this guy. It's easy to say he won't be any good because that is the expected outcome. We don't need your european friends who watch basketball games to tell us that.
> 
> I'm hoping he has a ceiling that allows him to contribute 15 solid minutes a night. I realize that he likeley won't be able to do that.


Let's remember that the Bulls gave up 3 second round picks to get him. I would hope the expectations are a little higher based just on that fact.

I have to agree with Bulls42, though... everything I have seen and heard of this guy-- which I admit is not much-- combined with the Bulls track record with Euro players since Kukoc, screams bust. I hope I'm wrong.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

> We are going to be a very good team in the NBA for the next 5 years.
> 
> Stop Hating.


Its not enough, not anymore. Its time to be great not just very good.


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

Kneepad said:


> Let's remember that the Bulls gave up 3 second round picks to get him. I would hope the expectations are a little higher based just on that fact.
> 
> I have to agree with Bulls42, though... everything I have seen and heard of this guy-- which I admit is not much-- combined with the Bulls track record with Euro players since Kukoc, screams bust. I hope I'm wrong.


I'm not worried about three second round picks for him. If we could use three second round picks to get a solid backup C it would be an absolute steal. So I am just looking at how much he will get paid.

If he is making 4 mil or more than he should be able to provide solid backup C minutes. If he is getting paid less than that he is simply a guy on the bench whom we think can contribute as a better then vet min backup C.

If the guy gets paid 2-3 mil and actually is able to play a solid backup C role, then it would be a phenomenal signing.

Maybe he works really hard, boxes out, plays smart, and rotates well on D. If he does those things then he could look like a stiff in a youtube clip from 3 years ago and still be a good backup Center.

Honestly though I have searched for youtube footage on him and haven't found a single recent video. (they are all like 2 or 3 years old, which would make him a teenager right?) Is there anyone here who can point to a desent clip from the past year?


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

thebizkit69u said:


> Its not enough, not anymore. Its time to be great not just very good.


We tried to put together a phenomenal team. We put ourselves in position to.

unfortunateley for us Lebron, Bosh, and Wade, pinky swore 2 years ago that they would do this. Our "terrible management" wasn't capable of breaking up their eveil little pact.

Out of our hands. We did however manage to get the inside scoring and rebounding PF that we have been missing all these years. And we are working to address all of our other laundry list of problems. Nameley shooting and depth.

We are building this team the right way, with a ton of balance. Star Pg, Great shooting 2g, Very good all around SF, Big Inside Scoring and Rebounding PF, Rebounding/hardworking/good defending/smart Center.

Now we are filling out the depth.

This team can contend for a title. It's not likeley because the Heat have probably just put together the most talented team of all time. But it's the best we can do.

And complaining about being a young 50+ win team is really lame. 

If Rose turns into a superstar and improves his D I say we give anyone in the league a run for their money. 

If we get Reddick we should still have about 7 mil to spend. Thats enough to get a good backup 1 and 5. Our team will be incredibly deep and balanced with multiple all star's in the starting lineup.

_Much_ better team, than had we committed the 30 mil to these guys:

TT, Hinrich, BG and the 17th overall pick. Which was basically the alternative that all the haters secretly stew over.


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## Bulls42 (Jul 22, 2002)

Caseyr- you're alone on this. Everyone wants to win now. That was the big summer plan (LeBron/Wade). I'm not interested in developing a 6'11 230-pound project and watching him get flattened by Dwight Howard and Kendrick Perkins. I want Brad Miller or Joel Anthony, proven centers. 
I'm not interested in gambling on Morrow that TT can develop him into a defender. I want Tony Allen who I've seen shut down 2's in the playoffs, I want Wes Matthews who I've seen handle himself well against Kobe.
I don't want two players who do the exact same thing (Korver and Reddick).
I want a team that says it wants to be built around defense to bring in people that can defend right now.


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

Bulls42 said:


> Caseyr- you're alone on this. Everyone wants to win now. That was the big summer plan (LeBron/Wade). I'm not interested in developing a 6'11 230-pound project and watching him get flattened by Dwight Howard and Kendrick Perkins. I want Brad Miller or Joel Anthony, proven centers.
> I'm not interested in gambling on Morrow that TT can develop him into a defender. I want Tony Allen who I've seen shut down 2's in the playoffs, I want Wes Matthews who I've seen handle himself well against Kobe.
> I don't want two players who do the exact same thing (Korver and Reddick).
> I want a team that says it wants to be built around defense to bring in people that can defend right now.


where'd you get the idea that I don't want to win now?

Where'd you get the idea that I don't want Brad Miller backing up C? I have said multiple times that if the capspace is there then I would like to add him.


Where'd you see me saying I wanted Morrow?

And I think you will be pleasently surprised by how good our D is next year. Taj is still going to get 20 minutes a night. Our ridiculously good rebounding alone will help our D big time. And we have a great Defensive coach, I fully expect us to be one of the better defensive teams in the NBA (top 5) the best rebounding team in the NBA, and one of the most efficient offensive teams in the NBA.


And complaining about our management for not getting Lebron/Wade/Bosh. is pathetic. We tried and but they had a masterplan to pull off the triumverate. Barring major injuries it is very likeley that no one else will win a ring in the next 6 years. But outside of Miami we are right in the mix. And would never have gotten here had we not done what was neccessary (clear cap space).

Wahhhh.


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## King Joseus (May 26, 2003)

No matter how much you want Matthews and Anthony, they're not going anywhere.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

Bulls42 said:


> WHO IS SAYING HE IS A VERY GOOD ATHLETE??!!! Having long arms does not make you a good athlete.
> http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Omer-Asik-5033/


Uh, I did. And so does that link you pointed us to, LOL:



> Omer Asik clearly stood out from the pack as being the most intriguing big men in attendance, almost from the very start. He had the best frame of the four (great size at a legit 7-feet, good shoulders, a solid lower body, a nice 7-2 wingspan and 9-4 standing reach) to go along with the best motor and the most athleticism of the four. He came out with a business-like mentality, dunking everything around the rim...


So on and so forth. There are reputable scouts who say this guy has lottery talent. Of course that doesn't mean he will pan out. I'm just saying, he is a good athlete, very tall, and very long; he's bound to at least be a shotblocker at the NBA level.


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## Good Hope (Nov 27, 2002)

Bulls42 said:


> He is not good at anything from what I've read and seen. He is a much worse version of Brad Miller. He is well-below Aaron Gray, Dragan Tarlac and Dalibor Bagaric. No joke.


You know, since the Bulls are familiar with the games of all these guys, you might guess they would have some sense if someone was like them, better or worse.

I believe em when they say he's a legit back up.


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## Bulls42 (Jul 22, 2002)

He's 6'11 230 currently. His stats on the link (6 turnovers per 48 mins) and the other weak numbers are from this past season in the Euroleague. I just don't want him being our back-up center bc at best, he belongs in the D-League. 
Regarding Bulls mgmt, I never blamed them for not getting Wade/James so your comment is erroneous. I'm just saying, I have no interest in discussing project players and being good over a number of years. I want to win now and don't think we need to focus our discussions on being good over the next 5 years-the focus should be on building the most complete team for 2010-2011 as that was the aim of our plan to target Wade/James.


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## TheDarkPrince (May 13, 2006)

Please resign Brad Miller, this guys sounds like nothing but some big stiff.


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## Bulls42 (Jul 22, 2002)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Oe5rLXzJdM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcvtM8JqlnY&feature=channel

It's like watching a 7-foot high school kid from a rural, small town dominating. 
Didn't see one block above rim-level.
How can somehow have less hops than Brad Miller?
I've never been so certain of a bust in my life.
The kid needs to eat - he looks anemic. At least Dragan and Dalibor were strong. I doubt he makes it out of preseason uninjured.


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

At 230 he weighs more than both Joakim Noah and Taj Gibson did when we brought them into the league... I'm not saying I know how he'll perform, but it seems a little silly to write the kid off before we've even seen him play...

And since when did Joel Anthony become an established center? Seems to me Anthony blocks shots and does everything else poorly.... I figure Asik can probably do that, plus he's younger.


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## Bulls42 (Jul 22, 2002)

His game just doesn't look like it's going to translate to the NBA. You may be able to block shots in the Turkish league below-the-rim against much shorter players, but not in the NBA playing against taller/stronger players.
I wouldn't consider Joel Anthony a good center. He averages 2 points a game.


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## King Joseus (May 26, 2003)

I think it's silly to be dumping on this guy before he's had an opportunity to play in the league. He's not getting paid much. He's an end of the bench type guy at this point. Why all the fuss, one way or the other?


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## Bulls42 (Jul 22, 2002)

My issue is, his signing, however small his contract may be ($1.33m per), still precludes us from signing one of following players that I think could be more important contributors to the team: Shaun Livingston, Ronnie Brewer, Matt Barnes or, importantly, Brad Miller.


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## Good Hope (Nov 27, 2002)

Bulls42 said:


> My issue is, his signing, however small his contract may be ($1.33m per), still precludes us from signing one of following players that I think could be more important contributors to the team: Shaun Livingston, Ronnie Brewer, Matt Barnes or, importantly, Brad Miller.


I'm no expert, but I believe that Asik played against a number of NBA quality centers while in the Euro championships last year, and he did quite well, except for the FT %. And well meaning, offensively and defensively. The guy has some talent. Obviously, there are question marks, and we'll see. 

Go Bulls!


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

Don't underestimate the importance of interior defense. Especially when Tom Thibodeau is our coach.

Defending the paint is THE ONLY way we will ever beat Miami. And Orlando too for that matter.

Even if Asik blows offensively (and I expect him to), he will undoubtedly be a good shotblocker in this league and maybe even a pretty good rebounder. 

Guys with a 9'4 standing reach and above average athleticism are typically good shotblockers in this league, that much I know.


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## Kneepad (Jun 24, 2002)

yodurk said:


> Don't underestimate the importance of interior defense. Especially when Tom Thibodeau is our coach.
> 
> Defending the paint is THE ONLY way we will ever beat Miami. And Orlando too for that matter.
> 
> ...


Point taken about the interior defense.

Based on the (very) limited footage I've seen, the guy may have a 9'4 standing reach, but his vertical is only about another 5 inches. Guys are going to dunk right over that. I know he had some injury issues in Europe-- was he possibly playing hurt? I would feel a whole lot more comfortable if there was some footage out there that showed this guy at his best.

I'd like to have faith in Ivica Dukan the Bulls international scouting department, but when their record consists largely of guys like Dalibor Bagaric, Kornel David, and Dragan Tarlac, it's hard to.


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## Bulls42 (Jul 22, 2002)

yodurk, I vehemently challenge your assertion that he has above-average athleticism. Simply, he can't jump.... at all. Less than Brad Miller.
Also, regarding his interior defense, he does not have the upper or lower body strength to fight for position to rebound (and then he can't jump to rebound even if he is fortunate enough to be in the right place) and he will consistently be backed-down in the post. Additionally, he doesn't have the foot speed/quickness to be a good defender. 
In summary, I do not expect him to make a positive impact at either end.

Kneepad - I posted videos yesterday (post #28) of him in his prime ('07-'08) - notice all of the action is below-the-rim


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

> Kneepad - I posted videos yesterday (post #29) of him in his prime ('07-'08) - notice all of the action is below-the-rim


He was in his prime at 21?

This stuff about getting blocks over the rim is being emphasized too much... you'll notice that Joakim Noah doesn't block a ton of shots that are technically over the rim... not everyone produces the highlight reel blocks of a Tyrus Thomas or Dwight Howard... doesn't mean they can't defend.

Let's just wait and see the guy play a bit.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

Bulls42 said:


> yodurk, I vehemently challenge your assertion that he has above-average athleticism. Simply, he can't jump.... at all. Less than Brad Miller.


Unfortunately I can't offer proof at this time, other than I take the opinions of some very smart, well informed people seriously who have seen Asik play fairly extensively.

All I can tell you is to wait and see. And maybe I'll be wrong, but until then I'm giving these people the benefit of the doubt.

I do know Asik was recovering from some serious injuries that may have limited his conditioning. From all accounts I've read he is 100% recovered now.

For a paltry $1.5 million, I'm willing to give the guy a shot.

Another point worth considering: a) it's entirely possible he doesn't go balls out with his vertical jump during games, and b) there are many players who aren't explosive vertically but still show decent quickness/mobility. For big men defensively I'd argue the quickness is far more important than vertical. Far more.


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## Bulls42 (Jul 22, 2002)

yodurk, but wouldn't you have rather signed Brad Miller first? And Shaun Livingston/Ronnie Brewer/Matt Barnes? 
I'm pissed bc I think we are going to run out of cap space for some of the guys I mentioned at the expense of a project who I think will be a bust.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

Bulls42 said:


> yodurk, but wouldn't you have rather signed Brad Miller first?


I'd like to have both and think it's possible. Boozer/Noah/Gibson/Miller/Asik is a terrific rotation and mix of skills. Miller is still my fav player in the NBA and has been since his first Bulls stint in 2000.



> And Shaun Livingston/Ronnie Brewer/Matt Barnes?
> I'm pissed bc I think we are going to run out of cap space for some of the guys I mentioned at the expense of a project who I think will be a bust.


If we bag Reddick I'm not at all concerned. I happen to think Derrick Byars is one of those guys who would be a solid defender and OK shooter for peanuts. There's no shortage of athletic 6'6 guys who will play hard on defense when this is their chance to make the NBA. That's how Barnes, Raja Bell, Azibuke, etc. made it. There's also no shortage of backup point guards who can spell Rose for 10 minutes a night.


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

Bulls42 said:


> yodurk, but wouldn't you have rather signed Brad Miller first? And Shaun Livingston/Ronnie Brewer/Matt Barnes?
> I'm pissed bc I think we are going to run out of cap space for some of the guys I mentioned at the expense of a project who I think will be a bust.


This idea that Asik is holding us back from signing free agents is extremeley shaky. Basically whatever we paid Asik you remove 500 K from that amount (for releasing 1 cap hold) and then that number is the amount of cap space we lost.

So I'm not sure what he signed for I have heard everyting from 1.1 to 1.5 mile but let's just split it down the middle and call it 1.3 mil. Well 1.3-.5= *800k we are losing from our cap space*. You are going to have a difficult time telling me that 800K is keeping us from doing anything important this offseason.

Basically we lost 800k for a defensive 7 footer, that may or may not be able to contribute. If he can give us anything he is a steal.


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## Bulls42 (Jul 22, 2002)

For me, it's the principal of the matter. Even if it's $1, I wouldn't give it to a project (Asik) before first securing (in this particularly order): 1) Brad Miller, 2) Ronnie Brewer, 3) Matt Barnes and 4) Shaun Livingston. These four I know would more meaningfully contribute to the 2010-2011 Chicago Bulls.


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## TwinkieTowers (Jul 16, 2002)

> Also, regarding his interior defense, he does not have the upper or lower body strength to fight for position to rebound (and then he can't jump to rebound even if he is fortunate enough to be in the right place)...


Dennis Rodman wouldn't have wanted you to scout him back in the day.


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

Well Livingston signed:


> WojYahooNBA Shaun Livingston has agreed in principle to a two-year, $7 million deal with Charlotte, league sources tell Y! Also non-guaranteed 3rd year.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

TwinkieTowers said:


> Dennis Rodman wouldn't have wanted you to scout him back in the day.


Ditto with Kevin Garnett, Taj Gibson, Shawn Marion, to name a few.


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## Firefight (Jul 2, 2010)

Bulls42 said:


> For me, it's the principal of the matter. Even if it's $1, I wouldn't give it to a project (Asik) before first securing (in this particularly order): 1) Brad Miller, 2) Ronnie Brewer, 3) Matt Barnes and 4) Shaun Livingston. These four I know would more meaningfully contribute to the 2010-2011 Chicago Bulls.



I'm not a salary cap expert, but according to an interview on the Score today, IF the Bulls get Redick, they will still have 7mil in cap space... That's more than enough to get Brad Miller + (Barnes or Brewer.) 

Brewer is pretty much holding out to see if Redick comes here.. if he does I'm assuming we pass on Brewer, otherwise, why haven't they signed him already? I know Korver said "Brewer" by name at his press conference yesterday as someone that could "fit in" with the Bulls and has "shown interest in coming here." I guess Korver has been in constant contact with Brewer via text about the situation and Brewer expressing his want to come here.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

Firefight said:


> I'm not a salary cap expert, but according to an interview on the Score today, IF the Bulls get Redick, they will still have 7mil in cap space... That's more than enough to get Brad Miller + (Barnes or Brewer.)
> 
> Brewer is pretty much holding out to see if Redick comes here.. if he does I'm assuming we pass on Brewer, otherwise, why haven't they signed him already? I know Korver said "Brewer" by name at his press conference yesterday as someone that could "fit in" with the Bulls and has "shown interest in coming here." I guess Korver has been in constant contact with Brewer via text about the situation and Brewer expressing his want to come here.


You may be right. We'll know more on Friday I suppose.

Random question (in perhaps the wrong thread): I remember Ronnie Brewer was once considered a big PG. Maybe those days are long gone, but is it possible he can play some backup PG and/or "spot point" for us? Since Rose is expected to play a solid 35-38 min/game, we only need 10-12 minutes from a backup PG. Maybe Brewer can play the role of defensive stopper and backup PG.


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## Bulls42 (Jul 22, 2002)

yodurk, really?
Kevin Garnett and Shawn Marion could both put their chins on the rim when they were young.


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## TwinkieTowers (Jul 16, 2002)

Bulls42 said:


> yodurk, really?
> Kevin Garnett and Shawn Marion could both put their chins on the rim when they were young.


They were also being paid $12+ million for putting their chins on the rim. Garnett was still being paid $16 mil for putting his hand on the rim last season.

Chase Budinger can put his chin on the rim. Where are his rebounding and blocking numbers?


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

Bulls42 said:


> yodurk, really?
> Kevin Garnett and Shawn Marion could both put their chins on the rim when they were young.


Your point was that skinny players aren't likely to become good rebounders, or so I thought. 

My point is that quite a few skinny players become great rebounders. This isn't necessarily something that will hold Asik back unless the NBA suddenly becomes the NFL.

I agree you need some athleticism to be a good rebounder, but not at a freakish level. Which brings us to the magic question -- how athletic is Asik? As I said before, I am giving the benefit of the doubt to the smart opinions of people I trust (many of which post of message boards and I've been reading for nearly 10 years now). I haven't gotten a good chance to evaluate Asik myself, but soon enough I guess.


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## Bulls42 (Jul 22, 2002)

Better hope we sign Miller because the only other front-court name I hear we're interested in is Kurt Thomas. He is definitely not a center nor a good interior presence (offensively or defensively).


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## King Joseus (May 26, 2003)

Bulls42 said:


> Better hope we sign Miller because the only other front-court name I hear we're interested in is Kurt Thomas. He is definitely not a center nor a good interior presence (offensively or defensively).


Since when is Kurt Thomas not a good defensive presence? As a backup big, he's solid in that capacity...unless age finally caught up with him last season. Can't say I watched the Bucks much.


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

Kurt Thomas is a nearly unparalleled hack, but he can play a little interior D.


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

Like I posted in another thread, Kwame Brown is apparently looking for a contract in the 2-3 mil range. I think that price is right. Dude can't do much offensiveley but he really is a good man defender and one of the very few players in the league (at that price) that is strong and athletic enough to match up with big strong centers.

I figure we are going to do our best to get as many minutes out of Taj as possible. Meaning we probably will have Booz playing Center a few minutes a game. I figure we only really are looking for 10 minutes a game (max) out of our backup Center. Between Asik and Brown, we should be able to get that covered.

Just wanted to throw a name out there. Still rather have B Miller.


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## King Joseus (May 26, 2003)

caseyrh said:


> Like I posted in another thread, Kwame Brown is apparently looking for a contract in the 2-3 mil range. I think that price is right. Dude can't do much offensiveley but he really is a good man defender and one of the very few players in the league (at that price) that is strong and athletic enough to match up with big strong centers.
> 
> I figure we are going to do our best to get as many minutes out of Taj as possible. Meaning we probably will have Booz playing Center a few minutes a game. I figure we only really are looking for 10 minutes a game (max) out of our backup Center. Between Asik and Brown, we should be able to get that covered.
> 
> Just wanted to throw a name out there. Still rather have B Miller.


I wouldn't be opposed to Kwame in that role. Agreed on Miller, as well.


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## Bulls42 (Jul 22, 2002)

Let me clarify. My comments on Kurt Thomas were in regard to him playing the center position. We already have Boozer and Taj at the 4 (we are set)- we need Miller.


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## King Joseus (May 26, 2003)

Saw this, thought it might interest some of of you:



> The Bulls pulled off one of the shrewder moves of summer by enticing Turkish center Omer Asik to accept a 3-year deal totaling $4 million.





> After getting to view most of Asik games this season, I came away more impressed with his defense play. Asik is the all-around package on defense, not just a shot-blocker. Splitter might have been the only finer defensive center in Europe.
> 
> Excellent post defender. Like how he uses his chest and lower body to defend on the block. Moves feet very well. Stout in pick/roll situations and recovers well to consistently contest.
> 
> Deceptive defensively--initially seems languid (but not bittersweet) at the start of defensive possessions but reacts very quickly. The Bulls should not lose much defensively when they sub Asik in for Noah.


http://thepaintedarea.blogspot.com/2010/07/bulls-sign-omer-asik-at-cut-rate-price.html


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## BullsBaller (Oct 6, 2002)

This guy was picked last year in the 2nd round, so I am trying to figure out why he is getting paid mid 1st round money????

I do like the reports I have heard about him and think he will surprise the doubters on here. Hopefully he can deal with the change in culture at his age. That is one of my concerns as to his success this season.


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

BullsBaller said:


> This guy was picked last year in the 2nd round, so I am trying to figure out why he is getting paid mid 1st round money????
> 
> I do like the reports I have heard about him and think he will surprise the doubters on here. Hopefully he can deal with the change in culture at his age. That is one of my concerns as to his success this season.


He was picked a few years ago. Not last year. And this happens all the time with euro's that are under a long term contract with a euro club. they get picked 2nd round with the NBA team realizing they wont get to use them for a couple years, but will maintain their rights.

Anyways 4 mil over 3 years is hardly something to worry about...


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## TwinkieTowers (Jul 16, 2002)

> This guy was picked last year in the 2nd round, so I am trying to figure out why he is getting paid mid 1st round money????


1. Second round draft picks are not under the CBA for guaranteed rookie scale contracts, so the Bulls could've paid him $10 million a year if they wanted to.

2. The Bulls would've run the risk of competing against Euro teams vying for his services had he stayed one more year and improved substantially, which would've driven his price much higher than his current paltry contract.

3. Teams only have draft rights to second round picks for three years. So, had #2 happened, the Bulls would have been competing against Euro teams and NBA teams to sign him in 2011.


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## Bulls42 (Jul 22, 2002)

As I said repeatedly, Asik is a project. To all the doubters, please remove his impact (ie 5+ minutes a game) from your forecasts until 2012-2013.
Dude can't secure a rebound from guards in the Turkish league. 
Conclusion from this report is that he will have the least near-term impact of any Euro player coming over. HE IS NOT READY. He doesn't have the frame for the NBA right now, and no-one knows if he will.

http://bullsbythehorns.com/?p=2182


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## Firefight (Jul 2, 2010)

Bulls42 said:


> As I said repeatedly, Asik is a project. To all the doubters, please remove his impact (ie 5+ minutes a game) from your forecasts until 2012-2013.
> Dude can't secure a rebound from guards in the Turkish league.
> Conclusion from this report is that he will have the least near-term impact of any Euro player coming over. HE IS NOT READY. He doesn't have the frame for the NBA right now, and no-one knows if he will.
> 
> http://bullsbythehorns.com/?p=2182


Not sure anyone said he is going to be the reason we win a championship... He's the 5th of a 5 man big rotation. Being the 3rd center on a team usually doesn't come with a lot of pressure or expectations. If he finds his way into a game it won't be for many minutes if any at all... 

Not sure point of this post.


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

I'm not sure why you are on a mission to discredit our 5th big man... Especcially when Asik has never even played one game in the NBA. It just seems like you are desperate to hate on the dude. Pretty lame if you ask me.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

No kidding, I don't recall anyone saying he will come in right away and make an impact. 

The thing about those videos is, you can pick and choose random moments when a big man fails to grab a rebound or might have poor balance and get knocked to the ground. 

I thought the hilarious videos were where the guys says "poor help defense" when the guy shooting the ball made a few crazy acrobatic layups. The ball went in? Yes, let's call that poor help defense.

I've been saying this whole time, Asik is a productive Euro center who we really have no idea what he will do. However, he certainly has the physical tools to do something in the NBA eventually. Patience, young padawan.


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## Bulls42 (Jul 22, 2002)

On the contrary, the scout seems to think he doesn't have the body to make an impact in the NBA at least for the next two years (can't back down, can't hold his position, isn't strong enough to secure position for rebounds and then hold onto rebounds).
He is not ready for a back-up role. I would expect him to get DNP's most of the season.

caseyrh, I'm not hating on the dude - that's what you do on me every time I post. My point is, many people have pencilled him in as our back-up center this year. I'm alerting people that this likely won't be the case.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

The league is loaded with skinny guys who are 6'10+, many of which are damn fine players.

Strength can help, but IMO is way overstated in scouting reports. Basketball is supposed to be a non-contact sport, after all. 

Tyson Chandler was nearly named an all-star and Olympian a few years ago just by being a 7-foot skinny guy who could rebound, block some shots, and run the floor. If he can do that, I don't see why Asik doesn't have a chance to be a decent backup center. Nothing is guaranteed of course but he has a shot. It's been done plenty of times.


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## Wynn (Jun 3, 2002)

Bulls42 said:


> As I said repeatedly, Asik is a project. To all the doubters, please remove his impact (ie 5+ minutes a game) from your forecasts until 2012-2013.
> Dude can't secure a rebound from guards in the Turkish league.
> Conclusion from this report is that he will have the least near-term impact of any Euro player coming over. HE IS NOT READY. He doesn't have the frame for the NBA right now, and no-one knows if he will.
> 
> http://bullsbythehorns.com/?p=2182


After watching those videos, I come away more impressed with Asik than I was before. He's clearly NOT the big body in the paint to push other players around, but his positioning in those clips was correct and he seems to have a very natural touch around the rim. The two clips used as an example of late help defense were actually very well played by him... those guards got nowhere near the rim, made off-balance circus shots, and were not fouled. Each of those could just as easily have been blocks. The couple of clips where he got puushed around, those were clearly fouls.

I'm impressed with his knowledge of floor spacing and his touch around the rim. Clearly he had GREAT rebound and shot-blocking statistics in the EuroLeague, so these clips are not showing his whole game. Asik will have to fight Gibson for minutes... if we earns them, we'll be in great shape!


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## S.jR. (May 18, 2010)

I guess more PT for KT, hopefully he can hold up for the long run if Asik can't give good mins. this season.


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## Bulls96 (Jun 25, 2003)

It is so hilarious …dedicate 68 posts to discuss an impact that we may get from 
player that never played in NBA and was rated so low in European league.

Please stop this brain masturbation! 

IMO, JR and Pax/Forman did screw up this season again. Instead of just signing the best available center (Miller) now we need to gamble on how many minutes we will get from inexperienced Asik or senior citizen Kurt (before we call an ambulance) or questionable drugatic Noah (not to mention that his ego probably went above the roof by knowing that he is a single decent center we have)…and all that happen because we tried to safe $1.5M…it is so sick and disgusting!


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## bullsger (Jan 14, 2003)

*Overseas Scouting Report: Omer Asik*

By Sebastian Pruiti (nbaplaybook.com)



> In my opinion, Asik isn’t as NBA-ready as Pekovic, Mozgov, or Splitter but he does have some skills that could help in year one, and if he is developed properly he could become a productive member of the Bulls in year two.
> 
> [...]
> 
> ...


Very much more to read at the article and videos from Asik to watch, too.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

Bulls96 said:


> It is so hilarious …dedicate 68 posts to discuss an impact that we may get from
> player that never played in NBA and was rated so low in European league.
> 
> Please stop this brain masturbation!
> ...



Yeah, the plan to go with a stud young starting center, backed up by a solid veteran, and then additionally backed up by a promising foreign prospect is probably what costs the Bulls an NBA championship this year. Spot-on.


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## Bulls96 (Jun 25, 2003)

jnrjr79 said:


> Yeah, the plan to go with a stud young starting center, backed up by a solid veteran, and then additionally backed up by a promising foreign prospect is probably what costs the Bulls an NBA championship this year. Spot-on.


I will respond to your priceless statement with a simple comparison:

*Kurt + Asik < Miller *

BTW, Kurt (6-9" 230 lbs) is not a solid veteran center – he is an old washed out veteran PF (half step away from retirement home) and Asik is not a promising foreign prospect – he is nothing at this point, NOTHING. And any conversation about his potentials is laughable. Who gives a *** , if he turns into a five minutes bench player, after staying in this league for two or three years ?! IMO, we had enough of that garbage .


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

I forgot that Brad Miller was in the middle of his prime.


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## TheDarkPrince (May 13, 2006)

Asik will never even see the court this year. Noah will play 35 minutes a game give or take 2-3 minutes. Thomas and Gibson will spell Noah when he sits. Expect to see Boozer and Taj on the court as well against smaller teams.


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## AnaMayShun (Jun 22, 2002)

It's good to know that we have posters on here that are smarter than the Front Office.


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

AnaMayShun said:


> It's good to know that we have posters on here that are smarter than the Front Office.


not only smarter. But also believe that they have more thoroughly scouted a eurpoean big. Because they have seen a combined 5 minutes of video on him.


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## someone (Jul 17, 2007)

Didn't Brad Miller cost 15 million? For that... no thank you.


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## Bulls96 (Jun 25, 2003)

Casey, I respect the fact that many of us still want to be positive about this offseason moves .

But that does not change the fact that Kurt belongs to a bump category , not a solid veteran center. 

We were screwed up with Bosh-JL-Mr.Snake fiasco and it was natural to think that management will compensate losses by going after the remaining cream of the crop (two available Millers , Shaq and retain Kurk should be our main objectives, beside getting Boozer). 

And we failed to do that...but at least I thought we should be able to keep Brad. IMO , it was not worth it to gamble on a legit 7 ft 265 lbs solid back up Center in NBA because of $2M of savings (particular if that extra money , means not a lot)


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

Bulls96 said:


> I will respond to your priceless statement with a simple comparison:
> 
> *Kurt + Asik < Miller *
> 
> BTW, Kurt (6-9" 230 lbs) is not a solid veteran center – he is an old washed out veteran PF (half step away from retirement home) and Asik is not a promising foreign prospect – he is nothing at this point, NOTHING. And any conversation about his potentials is laughable. Who gives a *** , if he turns into a five minutes bench player, after staying in this league for two or three years ?! IMO, we had enough of that garbage .



I don't disagree, necessarily, that Kurt and Asik may end up being less productive than Miller. But it's not going to be by leaps and bounds. To somehow pretend that this is particularly significant is really overblowing the situation. You make the point that Kurt is old. Miller isn't? He might be younger, but he's certainly slower and less athletic. The difference between these players is not so major as to be concerned for the season.

It seems to me that we're all making a hell of a lot out of roster spots 10-12. I suppose we just have nothing else to do until the season starts, but let's keep it in perspective.


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

Just to re-cap Brad Miller's greatness last year:

PPG: 8.8 (his lowest since 2000-2001)

FG%: 43% (Career low... and just terrible for a Center)

3pt%: 28% (Yet he took a career high 2.4 threes per 36 minutes)

Rebounds: 4.9 per game... an Eddy Curry-esque career low.

Assists: 1.9 per game (his lowest in 9 years... that compared to 1.3 turnovers per game)

Blocks: 0.4 (another career low)


I just don't know how we'll survive losing a guy who didn't score well, didn't defend well, didn't rebound well and didn't shoot well... 

(I actually really like rooting for Brad Miller... but it isn't like we let George Mikan escape us)


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## Wynn (Jun 3, 2002)

Dornado said:


> Just to re-cap Brad Miller's greatness last year:
> 
> MPG: *23.8*
> 
> ...


But you forget to see that we've replaced him with Sucky McSuckerty who only has these stats:

MPG: 15.0

PPG: 3

FG%: *47%* 

3pt%: 0%

Rebounds: *4.2*

Assists: .7 per game (that compared to .69 turnovers per game)

Blocks: *0.66*

Let's hope that useless bag of crap from Turkey can give us SOMETHING to make up for the fact that Thomas is a better shooter, better rebounder, and better blocker than Miller! After all, you hate those qualities in your 4th or 5th big man in your rotation... rather have more 3 pointers from that position! This off-season is HORRIBLE!

The Bull will never win another game.


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## Bulls96 (Jun 25, 2003)

I hope I am wrong in my assumptions and I am glad to see a positive reactions from other members .


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

kurt thomas can still do it in a limited role ...if noah gets hurt , he is not really capable of doing the fulltime work if noah gets hurt for an extended time, they probably will have to go small with a boozer , deng gibson frontline, so in that respect he is a rather weak 2nd string center at this point in his career.

asik might be something , but not yet , it will take time but if he becomes something he was well worth it , so its good to take a chance on him ...i mean really how often are 2nd round centers any good ? if you can get one its like free money.


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## Wynn (Jun 3, 2002)

Da Grinch said:


> kurt thomas can still do it in a limited role ...if noah gets hurt , he is not really capable of doing the fulltime work if noah gets hurt for an extended time, they probably will have to go small with a boozer , deng gibson frontline, so in that respect he is a rather weak 2nd string center at this point in his career.
> 
> asik might be something , but not yet , it will take time but if he becomes something he was well worth it , so its good to take a chance on him ...i mean really how often are 2nd round centers any good ? if you can get one its like free money.


How many teams have a starting quality second string center, though... I imagine just about every team dreads any of their 5 starters going down to injury. Thomas is a more than acceptable fourth guy in our PF/C line-up. My guess is that if Noah goes down, Asik begins to see as many minutes as possible and KT will be HIS back-up.

Frankly, I'm glad to have Watson, Korver, Gibson, and KT -- all former starters -- on the bench in a back-up roll. Last season, Miller was the ONLY guy on the bench who could give quality minutes.


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## Bulls96 (Jun 25, 2003)

I don’t mean to offend anyone particular you, but when 



Wynn said:


> ...Asik begins to see as many minutes as possible and KT will be HIS back-up...


...we will be doomed, brother. 

So please stop even thinking on what we will do without mr.drugatic


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