# Will he Magically reappear?



## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

Will he Magically reappear?
By Peter May, Globe Staff | September 26, 2004

http://www.boston.com/sports/articles/2004/09/26/will_he_magically_reappear/

Small article on Hill's possible return.

Things are "sounding" much better this time than the other 3.

What woud be great is if Hill comes back, in any capacity, then uses his player option after this season and becomes a free agent and then re-signs with Orlando (assuming he is still healthy) very cheaply. Seems unlikely, but Hill just might be the type of guy that would do that.

This is the best part -



> Weisbrod went to Duke six weeks ago to watch Hill. He came away impressed.
> 
> "It was a full-court, full-blown workout," he said. "And afterwards there was no pain, no ice bags. He's been in the gym for three hours a day, and there's none of the things we used to see. He'd feel pain the next day. Or he'd feel stiffness the next day. There's none of that. There are no special needs whatsoever."


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

Man it would be great to see Hill back to 100%. He'd be good for at least 15-5-5 even if he was still a bit crippled, so you have to believe he'll be good for 20-6-5 or better if he really is 100%. Of course, there's always the question of rustiness after taking an entire season off, timidness after being injured for so long, and his defense (lateral mobility and quickness might be gone). 

Let's hope for the best.


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## RP McMurphy (Jul 17, 2003)

I'm excited about Grant Hill too, but not for anything he'll do on the basketball court. Anyone who expects him to come back and be a factor this season needs to get in touch with reality.

The Magic don't even want Hill to come back, they want to sit him out until November or December, and then they want an NBA-appointed doctor to declare him medically unfit to play (which the doctor will probably do). At that point, he instantly comes off the payroll, so he becomes a way for a team trying to get under the luxury tax to dump 15 million dollars in payroll.

Grant Hill will be a great trade asset this year, just like Terrell Brandon was last summer.


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## Captain Obvious (Jun 15, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>RP McMurphy</b>!
> I'm excited about Grant Hill too, but not for anything he'll do on the basketball court. Anyone who expects him to come back and be a factor this season needs to get in touch with reality.
> 
> The Magic don't even want Hill to come back, they want to sit him out until November or December, and then they want an NBA-appointed doctor to declare him medically unfit to play (which the doctor will probably do). At that point, he instantly comes off the payroll, so he becomes a way for a team trying to get under the luxury tax to dump 15 million dollars in payroll.
> ...


You're way off base here. Hill has full clearance from the doctors to do whatever he wants. Weisbrod has already said that after full-out workouts he hasn't had any pain and he hasn't even iced his ankle. The doctors didn't declare him unfit to play last year (even though he didn't), so how the heck is it going to happen this year?


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

RP, I'd agree with you if the signs were pointing to Hill not returning to health. But right now, reports are more positive than they ever have been for Hill. 

Now it's all on the Magic's judgement, since they'd know better after having seen Hill play pain-free this summer. 

And I'd still pay $15M per for 20-5-5 or slightly better. Hill's 32, 33 next year. He'd still be capable of those stats if everything fell into place this season, including his lateral mobility.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>RP McMurphy</b>!
> I'm excited about Grant Hill too, but not for anything he'll do on the basketball court. Anyone who expects him to come back and be a factor this season needs to get in touch with reality.
> 
> The Magic don't even want Hill to come back, they want to sit him out until November or December, and then they want an NBA-appointed doctor to declare him medically unfit to play (which the doctor will probably do). At that point, he instantly comes off the payroll, so he becomes a way for a team trying to get under the luxury tax to dump 15 million dollars in payroll.
> ...


I'll agree with Captain Obvious and EHL here, I think you are off base. I don't think Orlando is hoping any longer that Hill just stays injured and they get capspace from him. With the better overall team Orlando has now, if Hill can return 100% and put up numbers like EHL suggests, something like 15-5-5, Orlando could be a real competitor in the East right now. What Hill brings to the court is nearly invaluable. 

I know we've all heard it before, but there are a lot of things different this time around. You can tell by the language being used surrounding Hill's last comeback attempt that things are much more positive than in the past. The first three surgeries Hill had were surgeries to repair a crack in his ankle. This last surgery, they apparently believed they found the cause of the cracks and attempted to not only fix the crack again, but they cracked apart his heal and re-structured his ankle in order to hopefully avoid the cause of the problems. A more extensive surgery, hence a longer recovery time this time around.

Hill was playing at probably no better than 80% at the beginning of the season 2 years ago and still put up pretty impressive numbers. I think a healthy Hill would be quite capable of putting up somewhere around 15/16 ppg, 6/7 rpg, 4/5 apg which would certainly be making an impact.

And even if Hill comes back and plays more than the 10 or 15 games he can play before Orlando can no longer get him off the cap and he gets injured again, Hill I believe has a player option after this season ... and the stand up guy that Hill is, i'd be willing to bet if he goes down again he uses the option and takes himself off Orlando's payroll this summer and then retires. It might seem crazy, but I think Hill would do it. He knows Orlando has already paid him probably over 40 million dollars for about 40 something games of work.

I still wont believe it until I see it, but Hill believes he can come back. I'm not going to argue against that.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

I just dont see any way of it happening.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>R-Star</b>!
> I just dont see any way of it happening.


I wouldn't blame anyone for being skeptical. But some people act like it is an impossibility, which is far from the truth.


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## Pan Mengtu (Jun 18, 2004)

I call b.s. This is almost verbatim of what happens everytime he tries to come back. Those other three times did he admit that there were still cracks? Did he say that he wasn't really 100%? I don't remember that. I remember the same b.s. cheery talk, and then he played and was limping around.

*He's finished*. Let it go.


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## RP McMurphy (Jul 17, 2003)

A few comments:

1. It's hilarious that *anyone* thinks Grant Hill's chance of coming back and having a healthy season is greater than zero percent. It's not going to happen, give it up.

2. The only evidence we have that he's going to come back is a couple of articles we just read in the paper, and you shouldn't believe everything you read in the paper. Would you believe Peter Vecsey if he wrote in the New York Post that the Spurs are considering trading Tim Duncan for Tim Thomas? No? Then why would you believe Peter May when he starts getting all worked up over a guy who is obviously finished?

3. The reason I didn't respond to this thread again yesterday was because I was trying to figure out *why* we're suddenly reading all these rumors about how Grant Hill is healthy again, I was trying to figure out whose interest it's in to get this stuff in the papers. Well, I read a post on RealGM today by my main man robyg, and I figured it all out: This is the doing of Grant Hill and his agent, duh!

Here's his post:



> Let me tell you guys what I think is REALLY going on with this sudden Grant Hill comeback talk.
> 
> Orlando does not want Hill to play this year, or ever again. They could've played him last year, but they didn't. If they sit him out for the first few weeks, keep him stashed on the injured list, guess what? Two years will have passed since he last played, and at that point, the Magic can request a league-appointed physician to determine that Hill is "physically unable to resume playing." And, if the physician makes that determination, WHICH ORLANDO OWNERSHIP/MANAGEMENT VERY MUCH WANTS TO HAPPEN, Hill's contract no longer counts for luxury tax/salary cap purposes. At that point, Orlando can do with his contract what Minnesota did with Terrell Brandon's contract a while back: trade it to a team with luxury tax concerns for something worthwhile.
> 
> ...


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

That's all well and good RP, but how the hell does roby have any clue what Hill's ankle looks like? Honestly, who's to say Hill isn't healthy just because roby put a theory together (a solid theory, but a theory nonetheless)?

Who knows, maybe Hill's healthy. It wouldn't shock me. Of course, I'd be even less shocked if Hill came back for 20 games and then went right back on the injured list and into retirement. 

Point is, it's sort of ridiculous to claim you *know* Hill's condition. You don't, very few people in the world do.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

Robyg is exactly right, they could have played him last year, but they didn't. What the hell would be the point of bringing a guy in who has had major ankle problems and a history of trying to rush back for the last 20 games of a 19 win lost season?

Robyg is/was a great poster, but he is doing nothing but posting a bunch of his strong opinions as if they are some kind of fact. How does he know what Orlando management really intends to act or what they want? He doesn't.

You wanna know why we are hearing all these rumors again? I don't think it is that hard to figure out. For one, the season is about to start. Second, Hill has been playing for months already. In all the previous attempts, he was only cleared to play as training camp began. This time, he was cleared to play before last season even ended. 

I don't know if Hill will make it back or not, but saying there is a zero percent chance of him coming back is ignorant.

I just hope there are going to be a lot of people eating crow this year.


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## RP McMurphy (Jul 17, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>JNice</b>!
> Robyg is/was a great poster, but he is doing nothing but posting a bunch of his strong opinions as if they are some kind of fact. How does he know what Orlando management really intends to act or what they want? He doesn't.


Because even if Grant Hill comes back, he still has no chance of being worth a max contract (or at least, the likelihood of him coming back and being worth a max contract is so low that the Magic would gladly dump his salary if they could).

Yeah, I guess I don't *know* that Hill is not coming back, I'm just exaggerating when I say there's a zero percent chance of him coming back. Coming back after a four-year-long injury is the kind of thing that just doesn't happen, but I guess it could in theory.

But I do *know* that the Magic are trying to get Hill's contract to come off the books, because there's no way a team wants to pay 15 million dollars to a guy who probably won't be healthy and who even if he is, probably wouldn't be worth a max contract.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>RP McMurphy</b>!
> 
> 
> Because even if Grant Hill comes back, he still has no chance of being worth a max contract (or at least, the likelihood of him coming back and being worth a max contract is so low that the Magic would gladly dump his salary if they could).
> ...



Well, at least you've backed down from the zero percent thing.  Like I said, in theory, if they were actually able to not only fix the crack but the cause of the crack, then this time it could be for real.

Also, i'm not so sure Orlando would want to get rid of Hill if he is actually healthy. If he could go 15-5-5 he probably still isn't worth 15 mil a year, but there might not be better places to spend the money. Even minus Hill's contract, even if that does put them under the cap it probably wouldn't be by a whole lot.

Plus, like I said, if Hill goes down again I would bet he takes his option and lets Orlando free from his contract anyway. At worst they still only have the contract on their books for two years no matter what.


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## Shanghai Kid (Mar 7, 2003)

To me at least, a Hill/Francis team would be very similar to the Hill/Stackhouse team in Detroit. 

I think 15/5/5 for Hill is realistic if Hill is healthy. But cmon, 20/6/5? I doubt he'll ever get back to that stage.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Shanghai Kid</b>!
> To me at least, a Hill/Francis team would be very similar to the Hill/Stackhouse team in Detroit.
> 
> I think 15/5/5 for Hill is realistic if Hill is healthy. But cmon, 20/6/5? I doubt he'll ever get back to that stage.


I agree. 15-5-5 would be amazing. Personally, I'd expect less scoring out of him and more rebounding/passing. 13-6-5 or something like that would ideal for me. Grant Hill is never going to be a superstar again, he's never going to prove he's worth the max contract he's on, but I still think he's going to be a serviceable player in this league. He's going to be a great veteran leader for the Magic and a great 6th man who can bring the ball up and create plays for other players.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> 
> 
> I agree. 15-5-5 would be amazing. Personally, I'd expect less scoring out of him and more rebounding/passing. 13-6-5 or something like that would ideal for me. Grant Hill is never going to be a superstar again, he's never going to prove he's worth the max contract he's on, but I still think he's going to be a serviceable player in this league. He's going to be a great veteran leader for the Magic and a great 6th man who can bring the ball up and create plays for other players.


From what I read, if he is healthy, he will be starting right off the bat. I think Orlando wants to push him and give him a run right off the bat so if he gets injured again, they get it over quickly.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>JNice</b>!
> 
> 
> From what I read, if he is healthy, he will be starting right off the bat. I think Orlando wants to push him and give him a run right off the bat so if he gets injured again, they get it over quickly.


I think I remember reading something where Weisbrod said Turkoglu is going to start unless Hill looks unbelievable in training camp. I could be wrong though...


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## Captain Obvious (Jun 15, 2003)

If Hill is healthy he is obviously a better player than Turkoglu. However, I think Turkoglu will be our starter opening night regardless of Hill's health.


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## JerryWest (Jun 24, 2002)

I think he can put up 18/6/6 still


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## dominikan_balla1 (Aug 4, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>KennethTo</b>!
> I think he can put up 18/6/6 still


if he's 95% healthy i think he's capable of that...and if he's 100% healthy i think he can go as high as 20/7/5


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

With Hill, Orlando Magic has 11 fresh looks 

By KEN HORNACK 
Staff writer 

http://www.news-journalonline.com/NewsJournalOnline/Sports/NBA/03SportsNBA070100304.htm



> "I'm at a point now where I've been doing the same thing for the last eight to 20 months," said Hill, who turns 32 on Tuesday. "And I'm excited about guys coming in for the preseason training camp and, instead of doing stuff against nobody, doing stuff against competition."


With all the big stories this year - Kobe w/out Shaq, Shaq in Miami, Tmac and Yao, Arenas vs Wade, Vince and Peja wanting out .... if Hill can successfully come back from injury, it could be the feel good story of the year.


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>JNice</b>!
> With Hill, Orlando Magic has 11 fresh looks
> 
> By KEN HORNACK
> ...


I'll say. I pray Hill breaks through this year. If he does, I know I'll be watching a lot more of Orlando than I was originally going to watch this season after learning that Tmac was traded.


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## shazha (Nov 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>EHL</b>!
> RP, I'd agree with you if the signs were pointing to Hill not returning to health. But right now, reports are more positive than they ever have been for Hill.
> 
> Now it's all on the Magic's judgement, since they'd know better after having seen Hill play pain-free this summer.
> ...


come on guys as much as i like grant hill, 20-5-5 are vince carter and kobe like numbers.

Grant's shooting has always been average even at his best, with his quickness sure to be lacking, theres no way he'd be able to create space for himself like he used to.

His real strengths are his playmaking and rebounding. Both of which could really help the magic.

I look to see hill log major minutes at point letting steve play the 2 and mobley come off the bench.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

For the record, here is what John Denton said regarding Hill when he answered our questions:



> DENTON: Well, Grant says that he feels great and he's reporting no pain whatsoever. But we have been down this road before. Until he pounds on the ankle for back-to-back and plays four games in five nights we won't know if his ankle will hold up. Personally, I thought he could come back until I saw his X-rays about 2 months ago. The five screws in his ankle are 4 inches long. He's still a longshot at best.
> 
> If Hill's ankle breaks down in fewer than 15 games, the Magic will receive cap relief from hi scontract starting in January. If it happens after 15 games of playing, the clock restarts and it will be 2 years until the Magic would get relief. But another injury would almost certainly mean retirement -- and that could lead to cap relief for Magic.


LINK


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>shazha</b>!
> 
> 
> come on guys as much as i like grant hill, 20-5-5 are vince carter and kobe like numbers.
> ...


The 5 and 5 would be relatively easy for Hill if he is playing a decent number of minutes. Assists and rebound have always come relatively easy to him.

20 ppg might be a bit much, but if he is really healthy, I don't see why he could average 20 or more, but I doubt he does it for the season. He's going to have a lot of rust to start off the year. If he can remain healthy, I don't think it would be out of the question for him to average 20 or more the second half of the season. But that is only if he can make it that far.


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