# KOIN 6 - Strange story re: Darius Miles



## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

Darius Miles was found at the scene of a drug bust in East St. Louis? 

Details to come I guess. He wasn't arrested. He was there to pick up a friend to take to a high school graduation and cops busted some other guys. Somehow, Darius was mixed up in it, but they said they found no drugs on Miles. 

It's all on videotape. It showed a cop threatening to 'blow the top of your head off' Darius' reply: "I'm Darius Miles." The cop says: "I don't care..."

Bizarre.


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## Blazer Boy (Mar 17, 2004)

Bummer. Dude just seems to have bad luck. Just in wrong place at the wrong time sorta' thing. First the "Woods and Miles fight drunks at the nudie bar in East Portland" and now this.


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## MAS RipCity (Feb 22, 2003)

Darius did nothing wrong, no need to worry about this. He is a great guy just taking a friend to graduation. I just am glad that Dmiles is safe and that cop wasn't more of an a-hole and shot him.


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## Discovery69 (Nov 7, 2002)

East St. Louis, Illinois.. Darius' home town... 

The video starts out with two cars pulled over with police cars around them. It has a policeman in front of one of the cars kneeled down saying...

*"IF YOU DON'T GET OUT I'LL BLOW THE TOP OF YOUR HEAD OFF!.... NOW!!! 
I DON'T CARE WHO YOU ARE GET DOWN ON THE GROUND"*

The video pans from the left to the right showing Darius coming from the back side of the first car carrying a water bottle wearing black jeans and shirt with a black baseball cap [Blazer cap???]. Miles has this strange stare at the policeman and says...

*DAMN!!!*

as he lays on the ground and another policeman comes over and puts his knee on Darius' back and starts to frisk him for drugs or guns....

*Darius checks out clean* but not some of his friends. One is busted for a concealed weapon and another for possession of a baggie of pot buds.

Darius claims he was picking up some friends to go to his cousin's graduation when the police pulled him over. 

The Blazers said it is too soon to issue a statement until they have had time to talk to Darius and investigate the incident...


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## barfo (Jan 2, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Blazer Boy</b>!
> Bummer. Dude just seems to have bad luck. Just in wrong place at the wrong time sorta' thing. First the "Woods and Miles fight drunks at the nudie bar in East Portland" and now this.


 Yep. Guy's got no luck at all. It's strange how he keeps running into unsavory people. Usually you just see grandma baking cookies and children playing hopscotch down at the strip joints on Columbia Blvd at 2am... 

barfo


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## Blazerfan024 (Aug 15, 2003)

wow CANT any of the blazers just STAY out of trouble just for one summer?


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## Blazer Boy (Mar 17, 2004)

Just because dude is hanging out doesn't mean he wants to be in a fight. That's all. 

D-Miles seemed to get totally cleared of any accusations of wrong doing then and I'm sure he will get cleared this time. Seems to me like he is a good guy. (yeah he is probably my favorite current player on the team so naturally I want to defend him! )


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## MAS RipCity (Feb 22, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Blazerfan024</b>!
> wow CANT any of the blazers just STAY out of trouble just for one summer?


You're kidding right? What did Darius do wrong?


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## Blazerfan024 (Aug 15, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>MAS RipCity</b>!
> 
> 
> You're kidding right? What did Darius do wrong?


no im not kidding EVERY year one blazer is in the news for being "Involved In" or "Around" something that goes down. 

Dont you think they would learn to get new friends?

Doesnt matter if he did nuthin wrong, he was still hangin out with dudes with weed and a pistol, im sorry but I know my friends and know what they do, To say Darius HAD NO IDEA is just putting a blindfold on and looking the other way. Oh well just my 2 cents


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## cimalee (Apr 17, 2003)

do you know cops targets blacks with money they will pull them over if they are in a nice car for no reason


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## Nightfly (Sep 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>cimalee</b>!
> do you know cops targets blacks with money they will pull them over if they are in a nice car for no reason


I'm very well aware of this.

I've seen it happen first hand *way* too many times.

There's been a bunch of controversies about this type of stuff here in Portland recently.

This kind of stuff pisses me off to no end.


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## Nightfly (Sep 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>MAS RipCity</b>!
> 
> 
> You're kidding right? What did Darius do wrong?


You are familiar with being guilty via association aren't you?

That said, none of us really know what happened until a report is officially filed. We can speculate all we want, but it won't get us far.


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## cimalee (Apr 17, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>HearToTemptYou</b>!
> 
> 
> I'm very well aware of this.
> ...





i agree its ticks me off also


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## Iwatas (Aug 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>cimalee</b>!
> do you know cops targets blacks with money they will pull them over if they are in a nice car for no reason


Frankly, it doesn't help that Basketball players flash money in precisely the same way that drug dealers and pimps do.

Safe, stable, non-cop-bait drive cars without tinted windows, without excess flash, without enormous subwoofers. Crooks, pimps, and all-too-many otherwise-clean black guys act like crooks because it is cool. Have you ever seen a very rich law-abiding white man *imitate* a criminal? Yet it seems to be de rigeur for the Alan Iversons and Jason Williams of this world.

I have seen my share of racist cops, and it is a problem. But *some* of what they do is common sense: if you see someone driving a "Pimp-Mobile", check them out. 

Flame shields up!


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## Nightfly (Sep 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Iwatas</b>!
> 
> 
> Frankly, it doesn't help that Basketball players flash money in precisely the same way that drug dealers and pimps do.
> ...


I've seen a lot of racist BS from cops here in Portland.

One time I saw the cops pull over an elderly black man in a brand new Honda not a block away from the Honda dealer he had just pulled out of. It was stock; it hadn't been "gangsterized." Pulled him over, and eventually frisked the guy. They even put him in hand cuffs at one point. I wasn't close enough to hear everything that was going on, but from what I can gather, what they did was absolutely unnecessary, and downright pathetic. They were shouting pretty loudly at him to do things ("Turn the car off now!" "Step out of the vehicle!" etc...) He cooperated with everything the cops requested...

Eventually he was allowed to leave. I don't know if he got a ticket or not, but I know the cops were just giving that poor guy a hard time.

I realize that I don't know the details of this situation I've talked about, but I've seen stuff like this happen a number of times, and there's always a connection: Black man (or even women) driving a "new" or "nice" car.

One of my buddies had to deal with this **** on his friend's 18th birthday. (My friend was the driver.) I won't tell his story, but since he does browse the board, I'll ask him if he wants to share.


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## Philo (Feb 13, 2003)

[strike]While there is no question that Miles is a pothead,[/strike] he seems to have balanced his career and his off the court activities. This is just a minor blip on the radar.


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## LionOfJudah (May 27, 2003)

So let me get this straight... One of the people ridding in the car was busted for having drugs?

He did the smart thing, "hey, I'm the NBA star with money you hold the pot just incase **** happens. Don't worry I'll post your bail." Selfish but still better for everyone if they are going to risk getting busted.


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## Paxil (Jan 1, 2003)

Yeah..one busted for Pot and the other for the weapon. Smart Darius... real smart.


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## Iwatas (Aug 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>HearToTemptYou</b>!
> 
> 
> I've seen a lot of racist BS from cops here in Portland.
> ...


 <snip>

I'll accept all of that, and I agree entirely that it is unacceptable. But this is not the same situation. Does Darius Miles drive a Honda?


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## Target (Mar 17, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>HearToTemptYou</b>!
> 
> I'm very well aware of this.
> 
> ...


Ok...
if everyone had been clean and their pimpedness was just aesthetics I'd accept your comment. In fact they were packing so reality says the cops were justified in their pullover. Unless you are going to claim the cops made the plant.


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## B_&_B (Feb 19, 2004)

Here's the story from the FOX affiliate in St. Louis:

http://www.fox2ktvi.com/

NBA PLAYER CAUGHT UP IN CRIME SWEEP 

An NBA player from East St. Louis was headed to a graduation Wednesday night but not before East St. Louis Police forced him to the ground. Darius Miles was caught up in a crime sweep. Miles was not charged or arrested, but he did get to see firsthand how serious the East St. Louis Police Department is getting about getting drugs out of this community. One of Miles' friends was arrested on drug charges, and another was booked after he threw a loaded gun out of the car. The three were stopped for suspicious behavior. Miles was allowed to continue on to a high school graduation, but his buddies were two of at least eight arrests as East St. Louis continues to try and clean up its streets. Officer Rudy McIntosh said, "We started this unit under a federal grant, and within an 8-month span, we took kilos off the street, some homicide suspects off the street through these investigations, and we've got a lot of drug dealers indicted." The scat squad as they are called are a mix of local state and federal officers and have been prowling the streets of East St. Louis for nine months now with more than 2000 arrests. The NBA's Portland Trailblazers stand by Darius Miles saying he didn't do anything wrong.


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## Jockrider (Jun 25, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>HearToTemptYou</b>!
> 
> 
> I've seen a lot of racist BS from cops here in Portland.
> ...


Geez, I had this happen to me before and I am white. What is up with that. Even had the gun in my face. Must be reverse racism or something. Has to be racism in some way.


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## B_&_B (Feb 19, 2004)

Regardless if Miles didn't get arrested for anything, this is still bad publicity for the Blazers, something the Blazers are desperate to avoid... Patterson and Nash will not be happy about this... Anyone think this may have an impact on whether or not we re-sign D.Miles??? Or if it will impact the amount of $$$$ we offer him???

I'm a big D.Miles fan... he and L.Odom are my favorite players in the league... so I hope we still re-sign him.


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## Paxil (Jan 1, 2003)

<sarcasm>
Yeah... the only thing he did wrong was ride around with people who had guns and drugs. I mean... sheesh... could happen to any of us.  
</sarcasm>

Guess Miles hasn't been watching any 'smart' movies.

I hope this isn't a sign of more things to come... but honestly... if those are the kind of people he hangs with... it probably is.


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## mook (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Paxil</b>!
> <sarcasm>
> Yeah... the only thing he did wrong was ride around with people who had guns and drugs. I mean... sheesh... could happen to any of us.
> </sarcasm>


probably pretty easy to say if you weren't raised in a crime-infested inner city. 

hell, I grew up in Boise, Idaho, and I've got a friend or two from high school I wouldn't want to get pulled over by a cop with. doesn't mean I'm not going to hang out with them, though, especially if we had a mutual acquaintance graduating from high school. 

what would you recommend Darius do if he grew up in a neighborhood where some of his friends carried illegal weapons or did drugs? just completely ditch them? 

it's not like he just wandered into St Louis and made pals with some dangerous characters. it sounds like these are guys he's known a long time. it's not easy (or even necessarily the right thing) to just bail on them when your lifestyle doesn't match theirs. 

I have a friend who used to be a hard core heroin junky when I met him, although somehow I didn't know at first. (chalk that one up to my Idaho rubeness, I guess.) anyway, a couple years later after he quit he said hanging around me and some of my friends helped him see there were other ways to live life. 

I'm not saying this to brag. it just points out that in any good friendship you take the good with the bad. I probably could've been in just as bad a situation (minus the press coverage) as Darius if a cop had pulled me over.


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## Blazerfan024 (Aug 15, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>theWanker</b>!
> 
> 
> probably pretty easy to say if you weren't raised in a crime-infested inner city.
> ...


When hanging out with these people could potentially cost you your career, yea you quit hangin out with them. Its just like when you quit doing drugs you HAVE to quit hangin out with friends otherwise you will keep doing it. 

When Lifestyles change especially when you are in media spotlight you have to change, cant hang out with the dealers and guys carrying guns anymore. Time to GROW up, Im just dissapointed cause once we think the JAILBLAZERS will go away another blazer has to be "AROUND" a crime sweep. :no:


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## Paxil (Jan 1, 2003)

theWanker, I admire your committment to friends, and agree that every situation and decision isn't always clean and tidy, and personally I can't comment on Darius as a person because he is very likely a great guy, but I have some friends (if I can call them that) that I would not invite over to my house for fear they'd try to take a bong hit on the back porch in front of the neighbors. And the crazy thing is... they are so far removed from where I am that they'd have no clue that that isn't a cool thing to do in my world, nor would they care about the impact it would have on me. Is that a friend? Questionable. Am I the jerk? Maybe so. Most likely Darius hangs around those guys because he is doing the same things they are. Just a guess.


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## Talkhard (May 13, 2003)

Darius Miles is an idiot. He's on the verge of NBA stardom, he's got a big payday coming up, and yet he's riding around in a car with a guy who is carrying a loaded gun?? Somebody check this guy's I.Q., please.

As for his "innocence," well, that is still under consideration. How many people run around with drug users, but don't use it themselves? And how many people run around with guys who carry loaded guns?? Let's get real. I wouldn't even get in a car with someone who had a loaded gun. 

And while we're on this topic, isn't it about time the Blazers fired Jerome Kersey? His position on the team as some kind of advisor or counselor for the players is a total joke. He's obviously failing miserably at his job.

This stuff is so absurd. I say we dump Miles ASAP.


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## mook (Dec 31, 2002)

heh, I wouldn't have invited my heroin junky buddy to go and hang out with me and my 5 year old nephew either. with friends like that you have to pick your circumstances. 

I imagine with Darius it's a fine line to walk between not completely losing touch with where you came from and getting yourself in a heap of PR trouble. 

if I were in Darius's shoes, the only people I'd really trust are fellow NBA players, my family, and the people who knew me back when I wasn't rich and famous. when you are that rich that quickly, you can't help but be paranoid about new friends looking out for their own fame and fortune. 

of all the Blazer transgressions I've read about over recent years, this has got to be one of, or possibly the most mild (if it's really a transgression at all.) it wouldn't surprise me a bit if something like this has happened to a dozen non-Blazer players and the media never mentioned it.


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## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>theWanker</b>!
> of all the Blazer transgressions I've read about over recent years, this has got to be one of, or possibly the most mild (if it's really a transgression at all.) it wouldn't surprise me a bit if something like this has happened to a dozen non-Blazer players and the media never mentioned it.


True. I think a lot of it hs to do with the fact that the whole thing is caught on tape and a cop is threatening to blow Darius away. 

If it had happened off camera, it would already be forgotten.


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## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Talkhard</b>!
> Darius Miles is an idiot. He's on the verge of NBA stardom, he's got a big payday coming up, and yet he's riding around in a car with a guy who is carrying a loaded gun?? Somebody check this guy's I.Q., please.
> 
> As for his "innocence," well, that is still under consideration. How many people run around with drug users, but don't use it themselves? And how many people run around with guys who carry loaded guns?? Let's get real. I wouldn't even get in a car with someone who had a loaded gun.
> ...


This is idiotic.

If a freind picks you up at the airport, do you frisk them, looking for drugs or weapons? Otherwise, how would you KNOW that you weren't getting in a car with a guy with a loaded weapon?

If you go to a friend's house for the super bowl, do you do a room by room search of the premises to ensure there's no illegal activity going on?

If so, you live a strange and pathetic life. Real people don't live like that. Darius Miles can only take care of himself and not live other people's lives for them. 

It's an unfortunate situation, but he was simply in the wrong place at the wrong time, nothing more.


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## B_&_B (Feb 19, 2004)

Some of you dont know the facts... Here's what happened:

Darius was picking up a friend of his in East St. Louis on his way to attend his cousin's high school graduation ceremony. As he was picking up his friend, someone with a checkered past approached Miles. At that exact same time, the police came thru on a drug sweep, the person who had approached Miles had a gun in his possesion, which is what cause the police to react the way they did.

There were arrests made at the scene but did not involve Darius. He was not arrested for anything and truly was in the wrong place at the wrong time.


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## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

Things I'm tired of by Mediocre Man..............

I'm tired of people seemingly always throwing the race card out. 

I'm tired of people always using the area people were brought up as a crutch.

I'm tired of professional athletes being given the oppotunity of a lifetime and still choosing to "put themselves in bad situations"

I'm tired of the blazers continualy being in the news for the stupid actions of their players.

I'm tired of trying to embrace a player on the team only to have them be in the news for other things rather than basketball.

I'm tired of people making excuses for millionaire athletes that have the money and resources to get their acts striaght if they wanted to.

I'm tired of my best friend who will now call me and taunt me over this latest piece of news, and there is nothing I can say.

I'm tired of 25 point pledges that seemingly mean jack squat.

I'm tired of typing....honestly, but I must go on.

I'm tired of "superstar calls"

I'm tired of Dick Beveda asking the scorerstable how many fouls Shaq has.....WHY DOES IT MATTER!!!!!

I'm tired of 5'9" point guards that think they should dribble the shot clock away.

I'm tired of hearing "media darling" Rasheed Wallace talk into every microphone stuck in his face now that he's not in Portland.

I'm tired of us drafting potential instead of basketball players.

I'm tired of hearing how valuable SAR is on the trade market.

I'm tired of the Lakers....Although I hope they beat the crap out of Sheed and his Pistons

I'm tired of paying thousands for my season tickets and watching underachievers.

I'm tired of the franchise still paying for the reckless behavior of our former GM.

I'm tired of the "local media forcing me to watch the Seahawks and Mariners. I LIVE IN PORTLAND, NOT SEATTLE!

I'm tired of Fox sports NW never showing anything but Seattle sports.

I'm tired of people giving me 1 star becaus I have a different opinion than they do.

Lastly I'm tired of having to rant about stuff like this.....I really should take up reading.


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## B_&_B (Feb 19, 2004)

NICE WORK MEDIOCRE MAN!!! :laugh:


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## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>JohnnyCash</b>!
> NICE WORK MEDIOCRE MAN!!! :laugh:


LOL the sad thing is I could have went on. I do feel much better now though.


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## mook (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Talkhard</b>!
> Darius Miles is an idiot. He's on the verge of NBA stardom, he's got a big payday coming up, and yet he's riding around in a car with a guy who is carrying a loaded gun?? Somebody check this guy's I.Q., please.


I've done it. I know a couple of people with concealed weapons. I assume they have licenses, but I suppose I could be wrong. (I know I've accidentally carried loaded shotguns and rifles a few times after hunting trips, but that's really different I suppose.)

If we dump Miles, we're sending the message that we only want guys who come from non-inner city backgrounds (or are willing to completely turn their backs on old friends.) That's a huge talent pool to just decide that we're too good for.


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## mook (Dec 31, 2002)

I'm tired of people turning the Blazers into a great moral play instead of what it really is: entertainment. 

Seems to me anyone that tired of the Blazers isn't getting any entertainment out of the team, so there really isn't a point in watching them.


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## B_&_B (Feb 19, 2004)

Video:

http://www.katu.com/news/story.asp?ID=67914


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

No arrest? No charge?

No big deal to me.

If Miles had been carrying a gun, it'd be another in a long line of former Blazers who've been charged with such an offense (Jim Jackson and Scottie Pippen spring immediately to mind).

I think that if I were him, I would be more careful of my image and such, but it's Miles's life. As long as he's not breaking laws or hurting anyone else, I don't understand why people feel the need to righteously rail against him or the team (which has even LESS control over this kind of situation).

Ed O.


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## Nightfly (Sep 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Iwatas</b>!
> <snip>
> 
> I'll accept all of that, and I agree entirely that it is unacceptable. But this is not the same situation. Does Darius Miles drive a Honda?


My comments weren't really about the Miles situation at all. I kind of went off on a tangent that cimalee brought up.

I haven't attributed guilt or innocence to Darius yet. I stated that in the above post more or less. 

I was just talking about the racism I've seen. I never meant to imply that this might be what happened to our friend in St. Louis.


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## Nightfly (Sep 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Target</b>!
> 
> 
> Ok...
> if everyone had been clean and their pimpedness was just aesthetics I'd accept your comment. In fact they were packing so reality says the cops were justified in their pullover. Unless you are going to claim the cops made the plant.


Again, like I said in a previous post, my comments weren't really about what happened to Darius. They were more of just a general observation on my part. It was more of a general rant you see.


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## Nightfly (Sep 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Jockrider</b>!
> Geez, I had this happen to me before and I am white.


Good for you. Do you want some sort of award?



> What is up with that. Even had the gun in my face. Must be reverse racism or something. Has to be racism in some way.


Don't be stupid man.

According to your location, you live in Salt Lake City, and correct me if I'm wrong, but that's a pretty damn white area.

If you indeed don't live in Portland, you really can't say anything on this matter with any real authority.

I know what I've seen, and your ignorant comments don't change that fact.


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## Nightfly (Sep 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>mediocre man</b>!
> I'm tired of people giving me 1 star becaus I have a different opinion than they do.


I gave you a 5 star vote for what ever it's worth.

That thread where you started talking to your self was absolutely hilarious.

Relive the moment here.


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## KIDBLAZE (Jul 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Jockrider</b>!
> Geez, I had this happen to me before and I am white. What is up with that. Even had the gun in my face. Must be reverse racism or something. Has to be racism in some way.


My mother always said if don't open your mouth people can't tell how ignorant you are. But I guess in this case its putting your hands on the keyboard.


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## B_&_B (Feb 19, 2004)

A friend of mine who's works for the local media forwarded me this:



The Portland Trail Blazers organization statement regarding Darius Miles:

After speaking with Darius and the East St. Louis Illinois police department, it was confirmed that Darius Miles did not commit any crime nor will he be charged with any crime. He simply was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Darius returned to the neighborhood where he grew up to pick up a friend and go to his cousin’s high school graduation. At the same time, the police conducted a neighborhood sweep and Darius and his friend were caught in the middle of it. The East St. Louis police were very clear that neither Darius nor his friend committed any crime.



Based on that info, it seems to me that the people who were arrested were NOT friends of Darius.


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## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>JohnnyCash</b>!
> A friend of mine who's works for the local media forwarded me this:
> 
> 
> ...


it's never too soon to jump to conclusions for some people.

I think Talkhard owes somebody an apology for calling Darius Miles an idiot.


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## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>HearToTemptYou</b>!
> 
> 
> I gave you a 5 star vote for what ever it's worth.
> ...



LOL I think you just did that so I'd join your fan club. Thanks for the reliving link. That must have been durring my broken arm/Vicadin days. Must have really hurt that day or something.


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## Nightfly (Sep 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>mediocre man</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> LOL I think you just did that so I'd join your fan club. Thanks for the reliving link. That must have been durring my broken arm/Vicadin days. Must have really hurt that day or something.


Oh, there's plenty of people in my fan club that I would give 1-star votes to... And there are plenty of people in the fan club that have given me 1 star votes as well!

Never the less, they are *all* fans of me, no matter what they say anywhere else!

Heh heh heh...


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## cimalee (Apr 17, 2003)

I wouldnt suprise me if qyntel Rasheed and all of those guys in Portalnd got setup by the police , police treat people of color horrible


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## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>cimalee</b>!
> I wouldnt suprise me if qyntel Rasheed and all of those guys in Portalnd got setup by the police , police treat people of color horrible


First of all, Sheed got busted for weed in Washington, not Portland. 

And second, re: Damon and Sheed, how on Earth could they possibly have been 'set up?' Dude, they were riding in a yellow hummer going 70 mph while smoking weed It's difficult to set somebody up for smoking weed when they're already smoking weed. 

There are plenty of cops I don't dig very much either and I know there are many situations where they _do_ abuse their powers. But when you cry wolf like that, saying Sheed got 'set up' in a situation where it's clearly not the case, it makes it more difficult for people to believe the _true_ cases of police misconduct.


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## blazerboy30 (Apr 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>cimalee</b>!
> I wouldnt suprise me if qyntel Rasheed and all of those guys in Portalnd got setup by the police , police treat people of color horrible


I'm sorry, but this has to be one of the most ignorant, baseless, thoughtless and worthless things I have ever read. I'm not bashing on you cimalee, but I just don't think you thought that one through before you typed it.


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## mook (Dec 31, 2002)

not to pile on, cim, but wow. that sounds like Micheal Jackson declaring the Sony corporation to be racist.


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## Nightfly (Sep 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>cimalee</b>!
> I wouldnt suprise me if qyntel Rasheed and all of those guys in Portalnd got setup by the police , police treat people of color horrible


From what I understand about what happened in these cases, I really really doubt Rasheed, Damon, or Qyntel were set up. As I understand it, they were all very cooperative with the police.


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## ABM (Dec 30, 2002)

Has anyone mentioned that the _official_ John Canzano diatribe report is due in newstands soon?


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## Oldmangrouch (Feb 11, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Fork</b>!
> 
> 
> it's never too soon to jump to conclusions for some people.
> ...





:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: 

C'mon dude! I am pushing 50. Can we talk about something likely to happen in my lifetime!


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## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Fork</b>!
> Darius Miles was found at the scene of a drug bust in East St. Louis?
> 
> Details to come I guess. He wasn't arrested. He was there to pick up a friend to take to a high school graduation and cops busted some other guys. Somehow, Darius was mixed up in it, but they said they found no drugs on Miles.
> ...


You know he was praying Ashton Kutcher came out and say "You just got Punked!"


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Oldmangrouch</b>!
> 
> :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
> 
> C'mon dude! I am pushing 50. Can we talk about something likely to happen in my lifetime!


How about this? TalkHard says something about how Miles is still a filthy criminal type for having friends in bad neighborhoods. A true law-abiding citizen would cut ties with *any* person he knew from a poor neighborhood. Therefore he, TalkHard, was still right in what he said and the police clearing him makes no difference.


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## Eagles in 2003 (Jul 18, 2002)

> do you know cops targets blacks with money they will pull them over if they are in a nice car for no reason


Often times black men with money are in possession of drugs or weapons, in defense of the cops. 

Don't call someone ignorant because they are white and claim reverse racism. It is ignorant for blacks to constantly complain they are persecuted by police cause of their color. Its ridiculous, do you realize that police officers have to pass a test before they become a cop? The test is a psychological evaluation, not many blatantly racist people would pass. Contrary to the African American society's belief, the police aren't out to get you.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Eagles in 2003</b>!
> 
> Often times black men with money are in possession of drugs or weapons, in defense of the cops.


That was a very bad defense of the cops. Policy by stereotype is exactly the kind of ignorance that undermines the justice and law enforcement system.


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## MAS RipCity (Feb 22, 2003)

I knew my boy Darius did nothing wrong, and the statement released today just confirmed that. C'mon fellahs(those who questioned miles) have some more faith in our guys!


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

Note for this thread: can we please steer away from whether a particular poster should or should not apologize, and how they would or would not go about doing that? Let's focus on Darius Miles and the situation surrounding the Blazers, and not on particular posters' perceived 'pologizing postures.

Sorry. Had to see how many 'p' words I could go there and had to cheat a bit 

Thanks, all. PM me if you need clarity on what I mean here. 

Ed O.


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## Eagles in 2003 (Jul 18, 2002)

Its still often true.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Eagles in 2003</b>!
> Its still often true.


Lots of things are "often" true. I've found that many white males are racist and/or sexist. Should I assume any white male I encounter is a racist/sexist until they prove to me otherwise?

I think that that would be inappropriate, as is racial profiling of black people in nice cars.


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## B_&_B (Feb 19, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Fork</b>!
> First of all, Sheed got busted for weed in Washington, not Portland.
> And second, re: Damon and Sheed, how on Earth could they possibly have been 'set up?' Dude, they were riding in a yellow hummer going 70 mph while smoking weed It's difficult to set somebody up for smoking weed when they're already smoking weed.


Whats funny about that incident is that when the cop asked Rasheed if they had any weed in the car, Rasheed responded with, "Nope, we already smoked it all".


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>MAS RipCity</b>!
> Darius did nothing wrong, no need to worry about this. He is a great guy just taking a friend to graduation. I just am glad that Dmiles is safe and that cop wasn't more of an a-hole and shot him.


More of an a-hole? How the hell was the cop an a-hole?

What do you think he'll say?

"Oh sorry, sir. I didn't know you were Darius Miles. Even though this is a drug bust, you're a professional athlete, so you can't have been involved in anything." 

Yeah right. The cop did what he had to do. Miles did nothing wrong, and the cop did his job.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> 
> 
> More of an a-hole? How the hell was the cop an a-hole?


For throwing him to the ground, pulling a gun and threatening him with blowing his head off.

I've read no account that claims Miles resisted or did anything threatening.

There's an old saying, "Take all the bullies and thugs in a school and put them together; half will become criminals and half will become police officers."

Obviously, there are plenty of perfectly fine cops. But far too many officers are ego-tripping bullies, who decided to get their aggression out by being law enforcement rather than being criminals.


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## cimalee (Apr 17, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>blazerboy30</b>!
> 
> 
> I'm sorry, but this has to be one of the most ignorant, baseless, thoughtless and worthless things I have ever read. I'm not bashing on you cimalee, but I just don't think you thought that one through before you typed it.





you take it how u want its possible


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## Paxil (Jan 1, 2003)

Dang now... I saw the video... Darius looked non-threatening, but still, someone was threatening to blow the top of his head off. Seems a bit excessive to me for a pot bust. Well, the officers at this point actually didn't even know it was a pot bust. (Unless the gun was thrown out of the window by this point, which is DANG stupid if it is loaded)


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## Kmurph (May 7, 2003)

After seeing and reading about what really happened, this is such a non issue.


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## stupendous (Feb 17, 2003)

*...*

on another note... has anybody else seen the new Murphy Lee music video?? For those who don't know, he is a rapper from Saint Louis... anyways, Darius makes a cameo in the video. I hope he isn't so busy getting caught up in drama and partying with Murphy Lee that he hasn't gotten a chance to work on his game!! Good thing he's got some god given athletic ability i suppose!!


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## Oldmangrouch (Feb 11, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Ed O</b>!
> Note for this thread: can we please steer away from whether a particular poster should or should not apologize, and how they would or would not go about doing that? Let's focus on Darius Miles and the situation surrounding the Blazers, and not on particular posters' perceived 'pologizing postures.
> 
> Sorry. Had to see how many 'p' words I could go there and had to cheat a bit
> ...


Sorry Ed. Some days I just can't pass up a chance at a wise-crack. There can be a fine line between "funny" and "insulting" and I will try to keep further away from it.


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## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

I would like to pose a couple of questions to all of you that think what the police did was excessive.

1. Have you ever been on a drug bust?

2. Have you ever faced a situation where you could easily die in less than a minute. It's you or the other guy. It's hard being a police officer. People do stupid things all the time because of one reason or another. You have to be overly cautious. 

I'm not asking these questions lightheartedly, I'd really like to know what your experiences are, and if they differ from mine when I was a police officer.


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## Blazer Boy (Mar 17, 2004)

Anyone think D-Miles should sue the cops for like abuse or something??


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## B_&_B (Feb 19, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Blazer Boy</b>!
> Anyone think D-Miles should sue the cops for like abuse or something??


totally, like for sure.  

I agree with ya Mediocre Man - being a cop is a thankless job. There are too many crazy nutjobs in this world who are completely unpredictable.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

*Re: ...*



> Originally posted by <b>stupendous</b>!
> on another note... has anybody else seen the new Murphy Lee music video?? For those who don't know, he is a rapper from Saint Louis... anyways, Darius makes a cameo in the video. I hope he isn't so busy getting caught up in drama and partying with Murphy Lee that he hasn't gotten a chance to work on his game!! Good thing he's got some god given athletic ability i suppose!!



hm...I saw a video (don't remember the name of the song, but one of the women looked like beyonce, but wasn't) that looked like it had a women wearing a Blazers jacket. 

But I only saw it for a split second.


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## Paxil (Jan 1, 2003)

1. Have you ever been on a drug bust?

No... but I watch Cops all the time. :laugh: 

2. Have you ever faced a situation where you could easily die in less than a minute. It's you or the other guy. It's hard being a police offiser. People do stupid things all the time because of one reason or the other. You have to be overly cautious. 

Yes, but it was very different for me because I don't go through that routinely. I don't have a problem with them being overly cautious, no problem at all, but after seeing that video, I don't know... the 'I'm going to blow the top of your head off' thing just seemed a bit much. 

I talked a friend who read an article in the Columbian about this... and it seems like a non-issue to me now. I'm not sure Darius was doing anything wrong, just an unfortunate situation.


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## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

"Get out of the car or I'll blow the top of your head off" 


That statement got Miles out of the car and on the ground in a matter that was non threatening to both the police officer and to Darius Miles. Once the subject is on the ground there is no danger for either the parties involved. Certainly not the language I might have used, but it was effective.


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## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>mediocre man</b>!
> "Get out of the car or I'll blow the top of your head off"
> 
> 
> That statement got Miles out of the car and on the ground in a matter that was non threatening to both the police officer and to Darius Miles. Once the subject is on the ground there is no danger for either the parties involved. Certainly not the language I might have used, but it was effective.


He was already out of the car, clearly he was not a threat. 

Once ON the ground, Darius, was such a 'non threat' that a cop decided to plant a knee in the back of his neck, despite the fact that another cop had already said 'This isn't about you Darius.'

The cops involved continue to treat black neighborhoods as an enemy territory, and they continue to act as an occupying force. It's no wonder there is a cycle of violence either directed at the police or at innocent civilians.


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## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Fork</b>!
> 
> 
> He was already out of the car, clearly he was not a threat.
> ...




The funny thing is that you make a blanket statement about cops treating black neighborhoods like enemy territories. where in one of the vehicles they randomly stopped they found weed and an illegal firearm. When will the day come when people from "black neighborhoods" as you call them will stop blaming other people for their problems. It's not the cops, or the innocent people that live there. It's the people in the neighborhoods that use every excuse they can to stay where they are and not try to better their lives. How is it you can take two different households on the same block. They both go to the same schools, have the same opportunities, but one household speaks litterate, and the other speaks illiterate. Explain that. Actually you don't have to. It's because one household cares and has pride, and the other gave up and is useing every excuse they can find to stay in the situation they are in. I have children, and understand how tough peer pressure can be, but you have to have enough pride in yourself to better yourself.


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## Blazer Ringbearer (Jan 28, 2003)

This is a crazy tangent to get off on, but...

If someone is raised in a middle class background and ends up themselves among the middle class in their adult life - do they lack pride? Did they give up?

Why do we expect poor people to automatically be able to better their lot when on average, people don't - rich, poor, or otherwise...


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Blazer Ringbearer</b>!
> This is a crazy tangent to get off on, but...
> 
> If someone is raised in a middle class background and ends up themselves among the middle class in their adult life - do they lack pride? Did they give up?
> ...


That's a good point.

Eventually it comes down to some people wanting to simplify life down to "everyone gets what they deserve, so I don't have to have a bit of compassion or understanding for anyone worse off than me." Poor people are poor because they didn't raise themselves up. Therefore, they deserve their lot and we don't have to feel at all uncomfortable that some people are living in violent neighborhoods with few opportunities and often serious health hazards like raw sewage running into homes.


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## mook (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Blazer Ringbearer</b>!
> This is a crazy tangent to get off on, but...
> 
> If someone is raised in a middle class background and ends up themselves among the middle class in their adult life - do they lack pride? Did they give up?
> ...



my nomination for the most interesting post I've read since at least the last time I posted. 

the post reminds me of a class in college I had on climatology (the study of climates). my professor said that if you have any doubt about what the weather will be tomorrow, predict that it will be just about the same as today. 80% of the time you will be right. 

if you want to predict the future economic class of an infant, predict he's in the same class as mom and dad. I'll bet you'd be right 80% of the time.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>theWanker</b>!
> 
> 
> the post reminds me of a class in college I had on climatology (the study of climates). my professor said that if you have any doubt about what the weather will be tomorrow, predict that it will be just about the same as today. 80% of the time you will be right.
> ...


Your post reminds me of a cannon of forecasting a baseball player's stats: Take the averages of his last three seasons and raise the resulting numbers slightly if he's under 27 or lower them slightly if he's over 32 and you have a 90% chance of being 90% correct. 

Things tend to stay as they always have been. Things sometimes change gradually, but it's outliers who make rapid changes.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Blazer Ringbearer</b>!
> This is a crazy tangent to get off on, but...
> 
> If someone is raised in a middle class background and ends up themselves among the middle class in their adult life - do they lack pride? Did they give up?
> ...


Quality of life. Many people are middle class and relatively content to be that. Crime is relatively light, education is decent and taxes aren't onerous. Compare that to the downside of being poor in the US (and if there IS no downside, then this whole conversation doesn't matter at all) and it's easy for me to see why middle class people would be more content with their position than poor people would be with theirs.

I reject that poor people are poor merely because they WANT to be, or because they don't work hard enough, or because they're less intelligent. I think there are legitimate institutional barriers (some of which have been put in place by the government in the name of helping them) to social and economic progress for the poor.

However, there's just an essential difference in looking at middle class people who don't improve their lot and poor people who don't. 

If someone chooses not to earn a postgraduate degree, including going well into debt to do so, I'm not going to blink twice... even though that's the choice that I've made and I think that it's helped me.

If I had raw sewage running through my house (either as a child or an adult) I guarantee you my middle class parents or my middle class self would do something about it. If I know someone who has that situation and chooses not to do something about it, I think it's reasonable for me to think that's a bit strange.

Ed O.


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## Blazer Ringbearer (Jan 28, 2003)

Ed,

I agree with you, but I think that's because I'm coming from a middle class background.

If you're raised in a certain environment, that is what becomes normal to you. So if you're living in a terrible neighborhood, you look around and you see that most of your neighbors have the same crappy lot as you - you probably don't know many people who are much better off...

It's possible that someone from a very well-to-do background would look down on a middle class kid like myself and think - how could he live like that? Why doesn't he do something about it?


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## BLAZER PROPHET (Jan 3, 2003)

I might add that many people don't care if they have money or not as it does not define their lives. To me, there are no "classes", just people.


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## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Blazer Ringbearer</b>!
> This is a crazy tangent to get off on, but...
> 
> If someone is raised in a middle class background and ends up themselves among the middle class in their adult life - do they lack pride? Did they give up?
> ...



I'm not saying being rich is good, or being poor is good. I'm saying that if people are going to complain about where they live they should do something about it. I was raised in a lower class environment. If I wasn't happy with that it was up to me to better myself, and I feel I did. That's all I'm saying. I just get tired of people complaining about their lot in life when they could do something about it instead. That's it. If you're happy living in an area then great, but if you don't loke it leave, and stop blaming everyone else for your situation.


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## Paxil (Jan 1, 2003)

Ding ding... you hit it right on the head mediocre man...



> if people are going to complain about where they live they should do something about it


Exactly.


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## Draco (Jun 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>mediocre man</b>!
> 
> I'm saying that if people are going to complain about where they live they should do something about it.


Whats worse, poor people complaining about where they live or us complaining about their complaining?


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## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Draco</b>!
> 
> 
> Whats worse, poor people complaining about where they live or us complaining about their complaining?


Wow Draco I'm not sure I'm deep enough to ponder that one. I'll try though cause I'm bored. I am going to have to go with opor people complaining is worse......here are my reasons. 

When poor people complain about that kind of stuff it's usually directed towards people that aren't poor, so we have no control over whether we hear it or not. We as non poor, or middle to upper class people are humans, and it is human nature to complain about something that you have no control over. Thus in review, poor people have control over whether they are always poor, but the people they complain to have no control over whether they hear the complaining.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Blazer Ringbearer</b>!
> 
> It's possible that someone from a very well-to-do background would look down on a middle class kid like myself and think - how could he live like that? Why doesn't he do something about it?


You're right that placing oneself outside the paradigm you're raised in is difficult, and with subjective stuff it seems impossible to verify whether those kinds of opinions are well-formed or not.

The thing is there's a pretty significant difference between the ascension from lower-tomiddle- and middle-to-upper- classes: American priorities as articulated in the tax code.

People who make too little don't get taxed at all. People who make "too much" (quotes for a variety of reasons; not all cynical) get taxed at a higher rate.

The middle class, who buy homes and raise children, consistently get tax breaks that are marginally more effective than other groups (a child tax credit does no good to a person who pays no taxes, and a child tax credit (even credited at the full rate; it might phase out for higher incomes I'm not sure) for massive tax-payers might just be a drop in the bucket... the "sweet spot" (middle class) gets the most utility out of most of the tax code.

That's not a criticism, but a round-about way of saying that Americans seem to think that the middle class is an OK spot to be. Wealthier people almost certainly want to keep their wealth, and that's understandable, but a lack of upward mobility aspirations from a poor person is confusing to me and, I'm sure, a lot of other people.

Ed O.


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## Draco (Jun 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Ed O</b>!
> 
> People who make too little don't get taxed at all. People who make "too much" (quotes for a variety of reasons; not all cynical) get taxed at a higher rate.


This is one of the most widely believed misleading assumptions regarding taxes and income in the US.

The US basically has a flat tax. According to the federal Bureau of Labor Statistics, the best 1/5 off, or top 20% of income distrubution, with an average salary of $116,666 paid 19% of their income in taxes. This reflects ALL income (including many wealthy earners non-taxed income) and ALL taxes (include excise, local, state, SS). The bottom fifth paid 18% on an average income of $7,946.

The federal income tax is more of a progressive tax compared to most taxes in the US. This is offset by regressive taxes such as social security tax. Once you hit $88,000 you effectively get a 14% tax cut as you don't pay ANY social security. Some would argue that this is a personal investment, the problem is the federal goverment uses this fund to pay for ALL facets of the government, such as defense, education, enviornmental protection, law enforcement, with Bush 43rd taking about $1 trillion from the SS fund to pay for general government expenditures.

So Ed you are correct in that people of higher incomes pay more taxes, 19% vs. 18%.


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Ed O</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I hope you are not saying it is easier to go from poverty to middle class than to go from middle class to upper middle class?

You say that people should make a choice to go into debt to get an advanced degree but already you are assuming everyone started at your position. I think a Phd. or college in general becomes less of a priority when you are forced to worry about what you are going to eat tonight.

I think the 'sewage' running in your house might take a back seat to feeding your children. It is different when the choice is remodeling your house or going to Disneyland for a week.

Also it is sad that in America most Americans think it is justified for the police to pull somebody (has to be another person because nobody likes it when it is them) over at random at gunpoint and not charge them with a crime. I wonder how some of the posters would feel if it was them or their family being pulled over and threatned because they decided to clean up your block. 

Also, if your community was so dangerous that police officers though these tactics were needed, wouldn't you carry a gun also? I know I would...


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Ed O</b>!
> 
> The thing is there's a pretty significant difference between the ascension from lower-tomiddle- and middle-to-upper- classes: American priorities as articulated in the tax code.
> 
> People who make too little don't get taxed at all. People who make "too much" (quotes for a variety of reasons; not all cynical) get taxed at a higher rate.


That's one difference. But there's another difference, which makes ascension from lower-to-middle- tougher than middle-to-upper-classes.

That, most simply stated, is that it takes money to make money. Which is easier, earning a second million dollars when you have a million dollars or making the first million when you have nothing? Either way, it's a one million dollar increase but obviously the first will be *far* easier than the second.

With money comes options and opportunities. Middle class people have more opportunity to earn even more money and ascend a class than someone with nearly nothing has to ascend to middle class.

This is a way in which the Capitalist system limits upward mobility of those on the bottom: You need money to make money. If you have no money, you're somewhat out of luck.

(That's not be taken totally literally. Obviously, you can earn money by investing time and work...but rarely is that enough to move upwards. Generally, that's enough to keep you where you are.)


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Draco</b>!
> 
> So Ed you are correct in that people of higher incomes pay more taxes, 19% vs. 18%.


I don't find the case for your conclusion very compelling, sorry.

Ed O.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>MemphisX</b>!
> 
> I hope you are not saying it is easier to go from poverty to middle class than to go from middle class to upper middle class?


No... is it easier to go from upper lower class to lower middle class?

I don't think that drawing fine distinctions is very valuable here, and I don't think that comparing ease of ascention is relevant unless there's a big gap... and considering there are far more people in the middle class than there are in the upper class, I would argue that it's at least as easy to go from lower class to middle class as it is middle to upper. 



> You say that people should make a choice to go into debt to get an advanced degree but already you are assuming everyone started at your position. I think a Phd. or college in general becomes less of a priority when you are forced to worry about what you are going to eat tonight.


What's "my position"? That my grandfather didn't speak a word of English when he arrived in the US? That my uncle was the first person to graduate from high school, and I was the first person to graduate from college?

If I were in the position my grandfather were in, I'd hope that I would aspire for my daughters and sons to have better chances than I do... and, in fact, I still DO hope my daughters and sons have those kinds of chances.



> I think the 'sewage' running in your house might take a back seat to feeding your children. It is different when the choice is remodeling your house or going to Disneyland for a week.


Getting the sewage cleaned up would come BEFORE my children. Temporally.



> Also, if your community was so dangerous that police officers though these tactics were needed, wouldn't you carry a gun also? I know I would...


There's no way in heck I would. At least without doing so legally.

Ed O.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Minstrel</b>!
> 
> That, most simply stated, is that it takes money to make money. Which is easier, earning a second million dollars when you have a million dollars or making the first million when you have nothing? Either way, it's a one million dollar increase but obviously the first will be *far* easier than the second.
> 
> ...


Labor alone is enough to get people enough money to get "seed capital" to invest in themselves. If someone dedicates themselves in school (which is free, even where it's not as efficient and effective as elsewhere) and graduates with a high school degree, there's a lot of options for them: work and go to school, go into the military and then go to school, or work and save and try to succeed in your career.

I don't think that people with nothing can realistically be expected to, through sheer force of will, become rich in their lifetime (perhaps some brilliant and/or lucky people do that, but obviously it's the exception). What CAN be expected (or, perhaps to soften it up, can be HOPED FOR) is to be responsible and take advantage of opportunities presented.

Ed O.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Ed O</b>!
> 
> 
> Labor alone is enough to get people enough money to get "seed capital" to invest in themselves.


Not when working the jobs people below the poverty line tend to work, unskilled labour. In fact, that's often not even enough to fully support their families, let alone allow them to put away for later investment.



> If someone dedicates themselves in school (which is free, even where it's not as efficient and effective as elsewhere) and graduates with a high school degree, there's a lot of options for them: work and go to school, go into the military and then go to school, or work and save and try to succeed in your career.


This isn't 1950s America anymore. Today, a high school education won't get you very much more than a minimum wage job. Today, a college degree isn't a mark of distinction, it's a necessity for many industries. Working after high school leads to you what I mentioned above: often, jobs that barely keep you afloat, if that.

If working will barely keep you afloat, you can imagine also paying for college on that salary. For someone of that financial wherewithal, a scholarship is pretty much necessary on top of working through school.

Last point here is that it's harder to dedicate yourself to school, at any level, when it's dangerous and crime-ridden, and you're so poor that you need to be a source of monetary income as soon as possible.



> What CAN be expected (or, perhaps to soften it up, can be HOPED FOR) is to be responsible and take advantage of opportunities presented.


Yes, that can be hoped for and maybe even expected for people of any economic class. But I'd say opportunities are extremely rare for some classes of people. And it's much easier to learn responsibility and discipline in a nice, suburban lifestyle than it is in a hard-scrabble fight for survival.

I don't think we differ all that much in opinion, I just believe there's a little less opportunity to move up and that the traditional avenues are tougher than for most people.


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## ryanjend22 (Jan 23, 2004)

Darius had nothing to do with what the cops were after...


HOWEVER...saying that Darius simply has bad luck is rediculous. He associates himself with trouble.


Im not trying to hate the player here, but man, he shouldnt have been at the strip club, and he should know his buddies have guns and weed on them.


Dude rules, i love him, but he needs to stay away from the hood.

People like Qyntel (remember a similar incident last year..??) and darius have this problem. They get rich, but still associate themselves with thug Deleted. No masked profanity. .

So, basically, im just saying hes not innocent here even though hes not gonna get arrested. I hope this wakes him up, cause he is a good dude, and one day he could get caught up in some serious Deleted. No masked profanity. because of who he associates himself with.


my thoughts as a darius fan who doesnt want him to leave :|


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## Draco (Jun 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Ed O</b>!
> 
> I don't find the case for your conclusion very compelling, sorry.
> 
> Ed O.



Well all I wanted to point out was rich people don't really pay more in taxes as a % of income as one would believe by looking at the tax rate schedules. There are special cases at every income level of course. There are people earning over $370k and paying zero federal income tax. But there are people earning $370 and paying at the 33% bracket as well. Then there are sales taxes where a poor person spends a 100% of their income and thus pays 8% whereas a more well off individual only spends 10% of their income, paying .8% of income as sales tax. Plus rich people have people like me working for them, which I sure hope lowers their taxes.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Draco</b>!
> 
> 
> Then there are sales taxes where a poor person spends a 100% of their income and thus pays 8% whereas a more well off individual only spends 10% of their income, paying .8% of income as sales tax.


That's an interesting point.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

While there are no doubt less progressive taxes than the income tax, I'm not convinced that the flatter tax burdens even things out at the end game to the extent Drago claims. 

Ed O.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Ed O</b>!
> 
> While there are no doubt less progressive taxes than the income tax, I'm not convinced that the flatter tax burdens even things out at the end game to the extent Drago claims.


Oh, I wasn't necessarily agreeing with the actual premise. I just thought the fact that sales tax is a disproportionate burden on those forced to spend a greater percentage of their income was an interesting point, one I hadn't really considered before.


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## Blazer Ringbearer (Jan 28, 2003)

This is an interesting discussion...

Obviously, this is a very complicated issue but I think the point that one could take away from it is that it's not just a simple case of:

"Hey, I don't have to give a crap about poor people - they could be rich like me if they weren't so lazy".

I think you hear that sort of basic thinking a lot, but it's very simplistic and closed-minded IMO.


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## ZBoFanatic (Feb 10, 2003)

How I see it is that yes it makes sense that poor people would want to move up in class, however, fact is that for the most part people and their offspring tend to stay in their respective classes for whatever reason. I think it is natural for people to strive for more than they have, and I am 99.999% sure that a lot of poor people do, but for whatever reason, for the most part, poor people stay poor, the middle class stays middle, and high society stays up there. Either in sociology or economics, I learned that when people are raised in a certain environment, their everyday settings determines how they are brought up. Surviving in certain environments requires different behaviors and different lifestyles, and perhaps the way poorer people are raised simply would not work in for an aspired middle-class setting the same way that you can't just expect to move to different country and expect to excel. You may in time develop the local language, however it will never be as verbose as it would be if you had been learning it all of your life. You know what I mean?

Going off subject... I was wondering if there was a cutoff in monetary figures that seperates high class from middle and middle from low? Anyone?


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## MAS RipCity (Feb 22, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>ryanjend22</b>!
> he shouldnt have been at the strip club,


eh..I am finding it difficult to see why going to the strip club is a bad thing


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## hasoos (Jan 3, 2003)

*Its simple*

Some people obviously can't accept the fact that other people don't like to live their lives and they would. Darius Miles at a strip club looking at NAKED WOMEN! I am sure they are condemning him to hell right now as I post this. People smoking weed? The world is going to end, people are smoking some weed, drugs will destroy the world you know! (Note sarcasm for those of you who think this is serious). 

The most absolutely horrifying thing of this whole episode is that a cop is threatening to end somebodies life over marijuana. Weed. Over somebody having a good time and probably making a DORITO run because they have the munchies. 

Sad indeed. While I agree that cops live perilous life and need to be able to be in charge of a situation, why in the hell are they having to put their lives on the line to bust somebody over a dime bag of weed? Its completely insane.


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