# Curry traded to NY



## LuolDeng

Just reported by Chris Boden on ESPN 1000.

He said an "angry GM" (Paxson) met with reporters and announced it.


----------



## LuolDeng

Boden also said that there is no word on who is coming our way.


----------



## bullsville

I just real on another board that 670 reported it as well.


----------



## qwerty

So tim thomas, sweetney, and a throw in?


----------



## lgtwins

If this is true, although it is almost inevitable for this to happen, Curry went to possibly only franchise who will play him almost unconditionally. So it might turn out to be good for Curry if he is in fact healthy throughout his career. Zeke is just right kind of Gm for Curry situation. NOw again ball is in Paxon's hand to pull the rabbit out of his hat during the season and upcoming free agency.

Somewhat sad day for Bulls but again, probably best for both at this point. Otherwise it could get really ugly during the season. So move on.


----------



## JRose5

Well, that closes the book on that one.


Actually, no.. no it probably doesn't.
Who wants to start the Eddy Curry Update thread?


----------



## ChiBulls2315

****ing Cripes. I can't believe this ****ing bull****


----------



## Darius Miles Davis

Yup, they're talking about in on ESPN radio 1000. I'm listening to the stream. 

Wow.

Still no word on who we got back.

Wow.

Did I say wow?


----------



## YearofDaBulls

WHat a shame it had to come to this...I'm disappointed.


----------



## BG7

Well, no surprise here.

I expect the deal to be.....

Chicago Trades:

Eddy Curry, Eric Piatowski, Antonio Davis, and Jannero Pargo.

New York Trades:

Tim Thomas, Anfernee Hardaway, Trevor Ariza, Michael Sweetney, and a Conditional First Round Pick.


----------



## kukoc4ever

Nice job Pax.

Maybe he'll learn from this mistake.

A dark, dark day for "the right way."

Paxson made the trade... so its a lock we're getting less than we're giving up.


----------



## nanokooshball

wow,.... i can't believe it actually happened, i need to shed a tear.... :boohoo: 

i am really going to miss curry... sigh


----------



## Bull_Market

i love john paxson. i am gratefull for his way of shaping of this franchise.

having said that, i don't think he could have handled this situation any worse in the past month. the demand of a test whose results would have been inconclusive no matter what, and the subsequent trading away a 290 pound skilled young 55% post scorer for garbage, is the dumbest move paxson has ever made. the 2 biggest knocks on eddy were rebounding and defense. 2 areas we managed to be DOMINANT in last year, even with eddy on the court. so we didn't really need that out of eddy now did we?

can't really think of any other dumb moves he's made that had any impact. but what feels weird, is that john paxson ain't perfect by a long shot. he's just downgraded himself from a genius gm, to a good one.

sad day for the bulls indeed, but not as sad as it will be when we next face the knicks - 

AND EDDY CURRY TOTALLY DISMANTLES HIS DEFENDER, TYSON CHANDLER!!!


----------



## BG7

Isiah Thomas GM of the year???? Brings in Eddy Curry and Quentin Richardson along with Larry Brown.....genious.


----------



## Darius Miles Davis

In the end, I'm disappointed this had to happen. I guess that means that I feel Paxson went about this the wrong way, though I'm I won't ascribe as much clear blame as some on the board. If it were me, I would have known I could never expect a DNA test on Curry's end, so I would have traded him for something before ever going public. The options were either to trade him or rescind the qualifying offer if I wasn't going to play him.

I'm usually on your side, Pax, but you didn't do me right on this one. I know you were handcuffed by the situation, but I would have handled this situation differently.

Eddy Curry, though not a perfect player, was one of my favorite Bulls. I will miss watching him and rooting for him. 

Meanwhile, it looks like Jamal and Eddy get at least one year together in NY. But will Jamal even be starting?


----------



## lgtwins

kukoc4ever said:


> Nice job Pax.
> 
> Maybe he'll learn from this mistake.
> 
> A dark, dark day for "the right way."
> 
> Paxson made the trade... so its a lock we're getting less than we're giving up.


I am sure of all the trade Paxon made so far this one is one trade he really didn't want to make. I really believe when he said he wanted to keep Curry. I also believe when he said he won't let Curry play without DNA testing. Under that situation, this one is one trade he is rather forced to make under the circumstances. Paxon actually only have two choices; Change his tune and keep Curry or THIS. Being Paxon being PAxon, this one is inevitable especially Curry camp only see $$$ signs, which they have been waiting for 4 years dreaming big payday.

Again sad day but it was long coming.


----------



## mizenkay

http://www.nba.com/bulls/

they're talking about the bulls on espn radio 1000 right now.


----------



## YearofDaBulls

I'm sure we got ripped off. I just cant believe it.


----------



## lgtwins

sloth said:


> Isiah Thomas GM of the year???? Brings in Eddy Curry and Quentin Richardson along with Larry Brown.....genious.


Well not sure about that. Clearly Curry, Q and JC aren't exactly Brown kind of players, don't you think?


----------



## NYKBaller

thanks again, why draft players when you can just take them from Paxson. So how long till a thread about Eddy Curry is started here and reaches 36 pages?

Hope he can play though...


----------



## lgtwins

Funny though. With or without heart fiasco New York was the only serious taker a year ago and even now. What does it say about Curry?


----------



## LuolDeng

NYKBaller said:


> thanks again, why draft players when you can just take them from Paxson. So how long till a thread about Eddy Curry is started here and reaches 36 pages?
> 
> Hope he can play though...


Good luck winning all those rings with Jamal Crawford and Eddy Curry...hopefully you can score 130 a night.


----------



## YearofDaBulls

NYKBaller said:


> thanks again, why draft players when you can just take them from Paxson. So how long till a thread about Eddy Curry is started here and reaches 36 pages?
> 
> Hope he can play though...


OK, whatever man. When did Crawford become an all-star?


----------



## JRose5

Great quote off ESPN 1000: "Now that he's a Knick, the hell with him."

:clap:


----------



## fleetwood macbull

kukoc4ever said:


> Nice job Pax.
> 
> Maybe he'll learn from this mistake.
> 
> A dark, dark day for "the right way."
> 
> Paxson made the trade... so its a lock we're getting less than we're giving up.


quantifiable in more Ws as per usual lol


----------



## Darius Miles Davis

JRose5 said:


> Great quote off ESPN 1000: "Now that he's a Knick, the hell with him."
> 
> :clap:


Someone on realgm is saying the deal is pretty different than the deal that was being reported in the last few weeks. He says he can't say what the deal is, but we'll know in 20 minutes or so anyway.

I think he is implying we are giving up someone else of value. 

Yikes.


----------



## yodurk

Even though we sorta expected this, I'm still in major shock. I echo lgtwins' comments...I still think Pax really wanted to keep Eddy Curry, but he felt the bridges had to be burned with all that's happened. Who would've thought that an irregular heartbeat would be the end of Eddy Curry in Chicago? So many mixed feelings.

With that said, I'm still happy for Eddy in alot of ways. He reunites with his old chum JC and will get a fresh start in a new city. I think he needed to get away from Chicago; the kid's been here his whole life.

If there's one thing I'm upset about though, it's that we'll have to put up with a merged Eddy Curry/Jamal Crawford/Knicks update thread for the next 10 billion years. And you have no idea how much I hate the Knicks. I'll need to make it a goal just not to read those threads.

Hopefully we got some nice pieces back. As I said in other threads, my main concern is filling the center void for 05-06...beyond then, it'll be peaches 'n cream with our cap room and the big men we'll be able to sign, IMO. 

Wow. Still in shock.


----------



## mizenkay

JRose5 said:


> Great quote off ESPN 1000: "Now that he's a Knick, the hell with him."
> 
> :clap:



yeah. i don't know who these guys are, but they're most definitely on the side of pax. as are most of the callers.


----------



## kukoc4ever

lgtwins said:


> Clearly Curry, Q and JC aren't exactly Brown kind of players, don't you think?


They said the same thing about Iverson and Brown. Iverson became one and they went to the finals.


----------



## Lynx

What did Chicago got in return?


----------



## theanimal23

Man, once he started to show signs of being great.


I feel like crying

What are the details of the trade? 

How did everyone react?


----------



## kukoc4ever

mizenkay said:


> yeah. i don't know who these guys are, but they're most definitely on the side of pax. as are most of the callers.


The smear was effective.

Curry was "fat" and "lazy" anyway. Just another "greedy" player. And... to top it off.. he has a bum ticker! You don't mess around with the heart after all.


----------



## fleetwood macbull

this just in from da_Bull7:



> Unfortunately I'm COMPLETELY handcuffed on this one, but all the details should be out in the next 20-30 minutes anyway. All I can say is the actual deal is NOT one which was reported in any of the many articles which went to press over the last few weeks. I was shocked at this one.


----------



## BG7

lgtwins said:


> Funny though. With or without heart fiasco New York was the only serious taker a year ago and even now. What does it say about Curry?


Also.....Atlanta, Memphis and Portland.

He still garnered more interest than Tyson Chandler did this offseason, with his heart fiasco, than Tyson Chandler has in his entire career.


----------



## JRose5

Darius Miles Davis said:


> Someone on realgm is saying the deal is pretty different than the deal that was being reported in the last few weeks. He says he can't say what the deal is, but we'll know in 20 minutes or so anyway.
> 
> I think he is implying we are giving up someone else of value.
> 
> Yikes.



Not good.

When you mentioned different, I was hoping it was New York that was sending someone better then what was reported.

Hopefully its no one beyond Harrington (can he even be traded?), Pargo, or Pike.
Even AD would kind of be a negative, because of the cap relief we'll get from his contract.


----------



## bullsville

Darius Miles Davis said:


> Someone on realgm is saying the deal is pretty different than the deal that was being reported in the last few weeks. He says he can't say what the deal is, but we'll know in 20 minutes or so anyway.
> 
> I think he is implying we are giving up someone else of value.
> 
> Yikes.


He also said another deal must be in the works as we now have "gaping holes" (to quote him).


----------



## Sham

How cool would it be if it was for Crawford?


----------



## JRose5

mizenkay said:


> yeah. i don't know who these guys are, but they're most definitely on the side of pax. as are most of the callers.


Yep, there was one caller who said it was a stupid trade (and made some great points to support that), and they basically shot him down.


----------



## kukoc4ever

fleetwood macbull said:


> quantifiable in more Ws as per usual lol



Is that your prediction for the upcoming season?


----------



## theanimal23

When will we know the details?


----------



## bullsville

Why would Pax make a bad trade? He could have just released Eddy from the QO, or paid him $5 million not to play, I see no way in hell he agrees to a bad deal.

Of course, if you thought Jamal and JYD for Othella, Pike and Griff was a bad deal (as some still do), I can guarantee right now that you will hate this deal, no matter who Pax gets in return.


----------



## Darius Miles Davis

Maybe Sausage King is right and we're getting Malik Rose. Gulp, then I'd really have to eat my words.


----------



## BG7

*Stephon Marbury*


----------



## yodurk

bullsville said:


> He also said another deal must be in the works as we now have "gaping holes" (to quote him).


Then it most certainly involves AD, I would think. Gaping holes at the center position?


----------



## L.O.B

As we continue to speculate, wonder if Pax could of snagged Q?


----------



## rlucas4257

Lets give Pax the benefit of the doubt. I mean, I bashed him for Crawford last year and he clearly was right so lets give him the benefit of the doubt. Getting Trevor Ariza and one of those number one picks would be a good step in the right direction. Tim Thomas is a great guy, just a very nice person who I always would root for. Sweetney would be interesting but ultimately, IMO, wouldnt cut it here. 

Having said that, I dont hate Curry and I would laugh at anyone who does. While I 100% agree with Pax on the DNA test, anyone who blames Curry for not taking it is completely dumb. Curry took care of Curry, which is exactly what 100% of us would do in the situation. His family is taken care of and now he goes to a team that has some serious talent. And before people laugh at Thomas, the feeling in NYC is that Brown has the final say. And Brown was 100% behind this deal making me think we might see a meaner Curry next year. 

Regardless, a sad day in the franchise. One that could have been 100% handled better on both sides.


----------



## fleetwood macbull

kukoc4ever said:


> Is that your prediction for the upcoming season?


umm naw i don't think so. This should set us back for awhile. Its not good losing Curry no matter how you slice it. I don't care Why he's gone. Its a loss

this is hard to predict, since the rest of the team should improve, offset by the loss of Curry.

I would probably say a couple less wins probably.

I was just talking about Pax trades being beneficial to us, which they are...but this trade was not Paxsons idea...don't ever forget that


----------



## fleetwood macbull

rlucas4257 said:


> Lets give Pax the benefit of the doubt. I mean, I bashed him for Crawford last year and he clearly was right so lets give him the benefit of the doubt. Getting Trevor Ariza and one of those number one picks would be a good step in the right direction. Tim Thomas is a great guy, just a very nice person who I always would root for. Sweetney would be interesting but ultimately, IMO, wouldnt cut it here.
> 
> Having said that, I dont hate Curry and I would laugh at anyone who does. While I 100% agree with Pax on the DNA test, anyone who blames Curry for not taking it is completely dumb. Curry took care of Curry, which is exactly what 100% of us would do in the situation. His family is taken care of and now he goes to a team that has some serious talent. And before people laugh at Thomas, the feeling in NYC is that Brown has the final say. And Brown was 100% behind this deal making me think we might see a meaner Curry next year.
> 
> Regardless, a sad day in the franchise. One that could have been 100% handled better on both sides.


ditto 
sup rlucas


----------



## theanimal23

I heard on ESPN 1000... For TT and Sweetney, can anyone confirm what I heard?


----------



## johnston797

rlucas4257 said:


> One that could have been 100% handled better on both sides.


I really fail to see how Curry could have handled the situation better if he decided he could live with the risks and was going to play basketball.


----------



## Darius Miles Davis

theanimal23 said:


> I heard on ESPN 1000... For TT and Sweetney, can anyone confirm what I heard?


Nah, Boden just reported that's the last thing that was reported that the Knicks offered, but Pax wanted more. No confirmation on AM1000 yet.


----------



## BG7

bullsville said:


> Why would Pax make a bad trade? He could have just released Eddy from the QO, or paid him $5 million not to play, I see no way in hell he agrees to a bad deal.
> 
> Of course, if you thought Jamal and JYD for Othella, Pike and Griff was a bad deal (as some still do), I can guarantee right now that you will hate this deal, no matter who Pax gets in return.


Well basically there are 3 routes that will make me pleased with a trade with New York.

A. Stephon Marbury
B. Jamal Crawford and another marginal talent.
C. Larry Brown.

If we can get Jamal back, I wouldn't be opposed to it, from everything I read, Scott Skiles likes Jamal, its not an evil empire vs. Jamal type thing, basically the same with Eddy, niether wanted to get the QO over extended years that Paxson was offering. He fills our 2 guard hole to say the least....but still, doubtful we get him.

I still stand by this one.

Bulls: Curry, Pike, Davis, Pargo for Knicks: Thomas, Hardaway, Ariza, Sweetney, and a First Round Pick.

Larry Brown may have had some input, and the Knicks might be clearing out some players like Marbury/Crawford....etc, that he doesn't want on the team.....but in the end, we don't know....yet.....still doubt the trade favors us though.


----------



## Sham

Darius Miles Davis said:


> Nah, Boden just reported that's the last thing that was reported that the Knicks offered, but Pax wanted more. No confirmation on AM1000 yet.




That, to me, is a good sign. When Paxson draws his line in the sand, he makes the other guy meet it.


----------



## BG7

L.O.B said:


> As we continue to speculate, wonder if Pax could of snagged Q?


David Lee and Qentin Richardson will not be Bulls, I can 99.9% garauntee that.


----------



## L.O.B

sloth said:


> Well basically there are 3 routes that will make me pleased with a trade with New York.
> 
> A. Stephon Marbury
> B. Jamal Crawford and another marginal talent.
> C. Larry Brown.
> 
> If we can get Jamal back, I wouldn't be opposed to it, from everything I read, Scott Skiles likes Jamal, its not an evil empire vs. Jamal type thing, basically the same with Eddy, niether wanted to get the QO over extended years that Paxson was offering. He fills our 2 guard hole to say the least....but still, doubtful we get him.
> 
> I still stand by this one.
> 
> Bulls: Curry, Pike, Davis, Pargo for Knicks: Thomas, Hardaway, Ariza, Sweetney, and a First Round Pick.
> 
> Larry Brown may have had some input, and the Knicks might be clearing out some players like Marbury/Crawford....etc, that he doesn't want on the team.....but in the end, we don't know....yet.....still doubt the trade favors us though.



Sloth,

Maybe you just ask Mama and Papa Sloth to get NBA league pass so you could watch both your boo s


----------



## Future

Craaaaazy..... will Curry be fat and lazy in NY? or will he play like he did for us last year?


----------



## Darius Miles Davis

ShamBulls said:


> That, to me, is a good sign. When Paxson draws his line in the sand, he makes the other guy meet it.


Boden still didn't report what Pax got. Maybe it was he who backed down in the end.


----------



## Greg Ostertag!

John Paxson is a good man and a good GM.

At the end of the day, you'll be very pleased with the product he'll put on the court.


----------



## JT

curry a new yorker? i like it i like it


----------



## Sham

Darius Miles Davis said:


> Boden still didn't report what Pax got. Maybe it was he who backed down in the end.




Plausibly, less. But wow would that be out of character.


----------



## JRose5

Yea I'm not really sure who these guys on ESPN 1000 are, but I don't think they know much about what they're talking about.

Some quotes.

"He sat out some of last year didn't he? Yea at the end, and that wasn't some heart attack he had."

"I don't know what they got up in New York, but it might be a good place for him to go to Not have a heart attack, cause Skiles will work you hard."


:eek8:


----------



## Sham

Greg Ostertag! said:


> John Paxson is a good man and a good GM.
> 
> At the end of the day, you'll be very pleased with the product he'll put on the court.




Some people never have and never will be. No one can deny, though, that it has worked so far. I trust his judgement.


----------



## L.O.B

JRose5 said:


> Yea I'm not really sure who these guys on ESPN 1000 are, but I don't think they know much about what they're talking about.
> 
> Some quotes.
> 
> "He sat out some of last year didn't he? Yea at the end, and that wasn't some heart attack he had."
> 
> "I don't know what they got up in New York, but it might be a good place for him to go to Not have a heart attack, cause Skiles will work you hard."
> 
> 
> :eek8:


One of the guys is Steve Mongo McMichael


----------



## rlucas4257

Just say no to David Lee. He is going to be Mark Randall reincarnated. Wherever VV is, no offense to Kansas


----------



## JRose5

L.O.B said:


> One of the guys is Steve Mongo McMichael


I heard them say Mongo and thats what I was afraid of.
That explains alot of those quotes.


----------



## johnston797

rlucas4257 said:


> Just say no to David Lee. He is going to be Mark Randall reincarnated. Wherever VV is, no offense to Kansas


I think IT put the voodoo on Pax. "I ain't giving up David Lee" Like the ol' briar patch.


----------



## L.O.B

I am sure when MVP1000 got him to guest host, they were thinking about talking Bears ..


----------



## socco

JRose5 said:


> Yea I'm not really sure who these guys on ESPN 1000 are, but I don't think they know much about what they're talking about.
> 
> Some quotes.
> 
> "He sat out some of last year didn't he? Yea at the end, and that wasn't some heart attack he had."
> 
> "I don't know what they got up in New York, but it might be a good place for him to go to Not have a heart attack, cause Skiles will work you hard."
> 
> 
> :eek8:


Ya, I've noticed how stupid these people are as well, and I've only been listening for like 5 minutes.


----------



## yodurk

Anyone else think Eddy Curry will get eaten alive by the NY media? Will this effect his play?


----------



## danesh23

why do you guys like curry so much? he doesnt act like a center at all... he averaged 5.4 rebounds last yr... thats below average for even a starting small forward... i can think of more than 10 guards who averaged more than 5.4 rbs....u dont need him... hes the knicks problem now... and just look at their roster...much worse than the bulls.... u guys played great in the playoffs without deng and curry and they were starters....though it would be nice to get ariza back too and a pick


----------



## Sham

danesh23 said:


> why do you guys like curry so much? he doesnt act like a center at all... he averaged 5.4 rebounds last yr... thats below average for even a starting small forward... i can think of more than 10 guards who averaged more than 5.4 rbs....u dont need him... hes the knicks problem now... and just look at their roster...much worse than the bulls.... u guys played great in the playoffs without deng and curry and they were starters....though it would be nice to get ariza back too and a pick




Because he could be really, really good.

Although we have to wonder whether he ever will be.


----------



## qwerty

...



> Whether you believe me or not is not my concern at all. The fact is I know and you guys dont, and unfortunately there is no way I can disclose that information without jeopardising my career.
> 
> I will say this and only this though.. You will be SHOCKED at Chicago's side of the deal. That is where the suprise is. Good suprise or bad? You decide when the details are released.
> 
> I'm out.


----------



## rlucas4257

I have made some dumb predictions in my time (mason jr to be better then Hinrich!!!!! duh) but I did say last year that Curry would be a Knick this season. He was always Isiahs guy and while I dont care for Thomas, he does get what he wants.


----------



## lgtwins

yodurk said:


> Anyone else think Eddy Curry will get eaten alive by the NY media? Will this effect his play?


Yes, they will. And another yes, it will.


----------



## Ron Mexico

man chandler/curry broken up, not a bulls fan, but I'm wondering how yall feel about this


----------



## yodurk

What a tease. He couldn't be referring to JC, could he? :uhoh:


----------



## BG7

qwerty, that quote would lead to a Crawford back to Chicago. That would be quite ironic if it happened, Paxson truly would have taken one more stab at Eddy.


----------



## L.O.B

rlucas4257 said:


> I have made some dumb predictions in my time (mason jr to be better then Hinrich!!!!! duh) but I did say last year that Curry would be a Knick this season. He was always Isiahs guy and while I dont care for Thomas, he does get what he wants.


He does get want he wants, I wonder if he wants to win?


----------



## Sham

qwerty said:


> ...




I don't know whether to be heartened or perturbed by that.


I do know though that, to me, that reaks of Jamal undertones.



Wow that would be fun.



:banana:


----------



## narek

The print press: http://chicagosports.chicagotribune...bulls,1,5266161.story?coll=cs-bulls-headlines

There's going to be no more news until the morning, according to this.


----------



## Darius Miles Davis

DaBullz7 is saying we will be very surprised by the Bulls end of the deal. I wonder if we gave up Nocioni in this deal. Clearly not Duhon, as we just signed him. Not Gordon, Deng, or Hinrich, not Chandler. So who would be a surprise?


----------



## JRose5

They just said an official announcement from the Bulls will be tomorrow morning.

We better hear something before then though.


----------



## yodurk

Ron Mexico said:


> man chandler/curry broken up, not a bulls fan, but I'm wondering how yall feel about this


Not worried. Though Chandler/Curry compensate for each other's deficiencies on paper, I personally never thought they played all that well together. Neither one is a great passer, maybe that was it. Regardless, having Chandler defend Curry 4 times this year (potentially) should be interesting, assuming Eddy doesn't miss any action.


----------



## Sham

narek said:


> The print press: http://chicagosports.chicagotribune...bulls,1,5266161.story?coll=cs-bulls-headlines
> 
> There's going to be no more news until the morning, according to this.




Officially, no, nothing will be said. But you have to feel that right now, the appropriate heads are being bashed together, Chinese burns given, and strings pulled. It will break soon.


----------



## johnston797

Darius Miles Davis said:


> DaBullz7 is saying we will be very surprised by the Bulls end of the deal. I wonder if we gave up Nocioni in this deal. Clearly not Duhon, as we just signed him. Not Gordon, Deng, or Hinrich, not Chandler. So who would be a surprise?


This is a good guess. Especially if Ariza is coming this way.


----------



## Aesop

Darius Miles Davis said:


> I wonder if we gave up Nocioni in this deal.


That's what I was thinking. If TT and/or Ariza is involved, I can see why Chapu could go.


----------



## Sham

Darius Miles Davis said:


> DaBullz7 is saying we will be very surprised by the Bulls end of the deal. I wonder if we gave up Nocioni in this deal. Clearly not Duhon, as we just signed him. Not Gordon, Deng, or Hinrich, not Chandler. So who would be a surprise?




The way he says it implies something which is fairly crippling to our current set up. Nocioni is not integral. Especially considering it looks like we're getting a small forward or two back. I'm still pulling for the Hinrich/Crawford swap.


----------



## johnston797

What basketbally player or pro-sports players in the history of professional sports couldn't take the NY media?


----------



## L.O.B

johnston797 said:


> What basketbally player or pro-sports players in the history of professional sports couldn't take the NY media?


kenny Rodgers, Steve Sax, Knobloch


----------



## Greg Ostertag!

Meh, it's probably Antonio Davis or something.


----------



## Future

Channing Frye?


----------



## Sham

Paxson: "From a basketball viewpoint, I am unhappy with the players we are getting"

:uhoh:


----------



## rlucas4257

ariza, a number one pick and Frye and that sound you just heard, well, we dont need to get into that!


----------



## narek

The Bulls offered $400,000 a year for a number of years in case Curry couldn't play again - he also said he was happy with the players he was getting back. I think it was 50 years! But I sneezed at that point.


----------



## Charlotte_______

johnston797 said:


> What basketbally player or pro-sports players in the history of professional sports couldn't take the NY media?


Darko Milicic


----------



## L.O.B

ShamBulls said:


> Paxson: "From a basketball viewpoint, I am unhappy with the players we are getting"
> 
> :uhoh:


well that isn't a good quote :raised_ey


----------



## JRose5

ShamBulls said:


> Paxson: "From a basketball viewpoint, I am unhappy with the players we are getting"
> 
> :uhoh:



Did he say that? I missed most of his clip.


Why make a trade if you're unhappy with the players you're getting in return?
Isn't that the point of making a trade?

This is probably bad.


----------



## yodurk

L.O.B said:


> Knobloch


LOL, man, Chuck Knoblauch's career was RUINED by being in the New York spotlight. Talk about psychological problems.

Curry's a sensitive guy, that's all I"m saying. Even though I hate the Knicks, I wish Eddy the best. You've gotta think when things don't go well, the media will make him a scapegoat.


----------



## narek

ShamBulls said:


> Paxson: "From a basketball viewpoint, I am unhappy with the players we are getting"
> 
> :uhoh:


I thought he said happy? But I was sneezing. Damn allergies.


----------



## Future

ShamBulls said:


> Paxson: "From a basketball viewpoint, I am unhappy with the players we are getting"
> 
> :uhoh:


Did he really say that? 

Really stupid if he did, especially if these players are going to be on this team.


----------



## YearofDaBulls

ShamBulls said:


> Paxson: "From a basketball viewpoint, I am unhappy with the players we are getting"
> 
> :uhoh:


I think he said happy.


----------



## JRose5

YearofDaBulls said:


> I think he said happy.


This would be better.


----------



## Aesop

ShamBulls said:


> Paxson: "From a basketball viewpoint, I am unhappy with the players we are getting"
> 
> :uhoh:


He didn't say that. He said he was happy and the players would fit into what they are trying to do.


----------



## Sham

He soytinly did tsay that. His follow up sentences were "they fit in with what we are trying to do, but from a basketball standpoint........*PAUSE*...........I know what I'm doing"



:uhoh:



I tried to record it but fluffed it. Hopefulyl someone else did it.


----------



## Greg Ostertag!

Paxson wouldn't make the deal if he wasn't happy with the players from a basketball or salary relief standpoint. He is an icon.


----------



## Sham

I firml;y believe I heard him say unhappy. Maybe it was a stutter or a mumble or something, not an "un". But I think that's what I heard.

Logically, though, given what he said afterwards, I doubt it.


----------



## Darius Miles Davis

So with the deal Paxson offered Eddy which insisted on taking the genetic test, if he agreed to take the test and it came up positive, as part of agreeing to take the test, the Bulls were going to pay Curry an annuity of $400,000 a year for the next 50 years if he had to retire.

Wow. I still don't believe Paxson was in the right for insisting that Eddy take the DNA test, but this gesture softens the blow. That shows a lot of committment to his well being.


----------



## pacerfan23

So has anyone heard officially who is involved yet?


----------



## Sham

Nothing will be officially said until tomorrow. And as of righ tnow, nothing has been said unofficialyl either.


----------



## Ron Mexico

> Ron Mexico, sloth, Blazer Freak, Amareca, Darius Miles Davis, theanimal23, Colombian BULL Fan, bencollins, ScottMay, Greg Ostertag!, iloveu, LIBlue, MemphisX, mizenkay, jnrjr79, yodurk, mgolding, Aesop, Rhyder, YearofDaBulls, Future, bullet, Red_Bandit, forcaje, qwerty, KHinrich12, The OUTLAW, nanokooshball, ATONYTOWN, kukoc4ever, johnston797, ApheLion02, SLAM, sherako, Nobull1, TRUTHHURTS


theres more here than the NBA board


----------



## ScottMay

ShamBulls said:


> That, to me, is a good sign. When Paxson draws his line in the sand, he makes the other guy meet it.


Exactly . . . like when he wouldn't give up Donyell Marshall in the Jalen Rose dump.


----------



## yodurk

Have we ever had this kind of massive presence in one thread? 

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 86 (44 members and 42 guests)
yodurk, tone wone, ScottMay, Greg Ostertag!, Ron Mexico, yamaneko, sloth, Blazer Freak, Amareca, Darius Miles Davis, theanimal23, Colombian BULL Fan, bencollins, LIBlue, iloveu, MemphisX, mizenkay, jnrjr79, mgolding, Aesop, Rhyder, YearofDaBulls, Future, bullet, Red_Bandit, forcaje, qwerty, KHinrich12, The OUTLAW, nanokooshball, ATONYTOWN, kukoc4ever, johnston797, ApheLion02, SLAM, Nobull1, TRUTHHURTS


----------



## JRose5

yodurk said:


> Have we ever had this kind of massive presence in one thread?
> 
> Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 86 (44 members and 42 guests)
> yodurk, tone wone, ScottMay, Greg Ostertag!, Ron Mexico, yamaneko, sloth, Blazer Freak, Amareca, Darius Miles Davis, theanimal23, Colombian BULL Fan, bencollins, LIBlue, iloveu, MemphisX, mizenkay, jnrjr79, mgolding, Aesop, Rhyder, YearofDaBulls, Future, bullet, Red_Bandit, forcaje, qwerty, KHinrich12, The OUTLAW, nanokooshball, ATONYTOWN, kukoc4ever, johnston797, ApheLion02, SLAM, Nobull1, TRUTHHURTS



Yea I was in the "say goodbye to Jared and Frank" thread, and it was getting kind of lonely..
:raised_ey


----------



## fleetwood macbull

Duhon maybe


----------



## Future

20,000,000 over 50 years? It's like winnin the damn lottery.


----------



## Sham

ScottMay said:


> Exactly . . . like when he wouldn't give up Donyell Marshall in the Jalen Rose dump.




Can you quote him on that?


----------



## BG7

Darius Miles Davis said:


> So with the deal Paxson offered Eddy which insisted on taking the genetic test, if he agreed to take the test and it came up positive, as part of agreeing to take the test, the Bulls were going to pay Curry an annuity of $400,000 a year for the next 50 years if he had to retire.
> 
> Wow. I still don't believe Paxson was in the right for insisting that Eddy take the DNA test, but this gesture softens the blow. That shows a lot of committment to his well being.


Thats not the case.

Eddy had to take the DNA test, and maybe pass it...not sure about that.

But it was if Eddy had to retire, his contract of 19 million garaunteed over 3 years, that 19 million garaunteed would be paid over the next 40 years, its not the 19 million + 400k a year.


----------



## Darius Miles Davis

fleetwood macbull said:


> Duhon maybe


I don't believe we can turn around and trade Chandler or Duhon this quickly after they signed new deals. Plus, Du doesn't really make sense for NY, as they have Marbury and Crawford and are high on Nate Robinson.


----------



## BG7

fleetwood macbull said:


> Duhon maybe


No.

Reference list for players who can't be traded.

Bulls:

Malik Allen
Eddie Basden 
Tyson Chandler
Chris Duhon
Othella Harrington
Darius Songaila

Knicks:

Channing Frye
Jerome James
David Lee
Quentin Richardson
Nate Robinson


----------



## Darius Miles Davis

sloth said:


> Thats not the case.
> 
> Eddy had to take the DNA test, and maybe pass it...not sure about that.
> 
> But it was if Eddy had to retire, his contract of 19 million garaunteed over 3 years, that 19 million garaunteed would be paid over the next 40 years, its not the 19 million + 400k a year.


Well, first off, it makes 20 million total, and secondly, why are you telling me I'm wrong? I just heard this on the radio from Paxson's mouth.


----------



## Darius Miles Davis

sloth said:


> No.
> 
> Reference list for players who can't be traded.
> 
> Bulls:
> 
> Malik Allen
> Eddie Basden
> Tyson Chandler
> Chris Duhon
> Othella Harrington
> Darius Songaila
> 
> Knicks:
> 
> Channing Frye
> Jerome James
> David Lee
> Quentin Richardson
> Nate Robinson


Sloth, where are you getting your info? Word is now with the new CBA, draft picks can be traded after only a month. Do you have a link for this? Even if you do, I'm doubting it's right.


----------



## JRose5

Darius Miles Davis said:


> Sloth, where are you getting your info? Word is now with the new CBA, draft picks can be traded after only a month. Do you have a link for this? Even if you do, I'm doubting it's right.


Thats what I was going to say DMD, several people have quoted the new CBA saying draft picks can be traded, but other players that were just signed still have to wait till Dec. 15.


----------



## bullsville

Darius Miles Davis said:


> Well, first off, it makes 20 million total, and secondly, why are you telling me I'm wrong? I just heard this on the radio from Paxson's mouth.


C'mon now, who are you going to believe, Pax or sloth?


----------



## johnston797

Darius Miles Davis said:


> So with the deal Paxson offered Eddy which insisted on taking the genetic test, if he agreed to take the test and it came up positive, as part of agreeing to take the test, the Bulls were going to pay Curry an annuity of $400,000 a year for the next 50 years if he had to retire.


Glad it's confirmed that Pax wanted to dictate the terms of whether Curry would have to retire.

$400,000 a year for the next 50 years - That's like $7M bucks in today's dollars, right? Or less?


----------



## kukoc4ever

bullsville said:


> C'mon now, who are you going to believe, Pax or sloth?


Both are very angry right now.


----------



## Darius Miles Davis

JRose5 said:


> Thats what I was going to say DMD, several people have quoted the new CBA saying draft picks can be traded, but other players that were just signed still have to wait till Dec. 15.


So that would include Duhon, Chandler, Harrington, Songaila, and Allen. I'm not sure how Basden would or wouldn't fit in. I guess he would be lumped in with these free agents as opposed to draft picks.


----------



## kukoc4ever

..


----------



## johnston797

L.O.B said:


> kenny Rodgers, Steve Sax, Knobloch


That's interesting - not sure it confirms anything. Yanks and Mets sign several big-ticket FAs each year. And there have been 3 head cases? 

oK - Any basketball players that couldn't handle the pressure?


----------



## Darius Miles Davis

kukoc4ever said:


> ..


Kucoc4ever, does the news of annuity make Paxson's position any more favorable in your light?


----------



## YearofDaBulls

Darius Miles Davis said:


> So with the deal Paxson offered Eddy which insisted on taking the genetic test, if he agreed to take the test and it came up positive, as part of agreeing to take the test, the Bulls were going to pay Curry an annuity of $400,000 a year for the next 50 years if he had to retire.
> 
> Wow. I still don't believe Paxson was in the right for insisting that Eddy take the DNA test, but this gesture softens the blow. That shows a lot of committment to his well being.


I truly believe that Paxsons intentions were for Curry's health.


----------



## jnrjr79

What a week to move and not have access to the internet. However, I'm now finding some free wifi if I keep the iBook right next to the window. Okey dokey.

Anyhow, this is some kind of torture having to wait until tomorrow for the details. I hope the story breaks tonight. I am both intruigued and scared right now.


----------



## mgolding

What time is it over there now? about 9pm? What time is Pax making his announcement? 9am? When do these things happen?


----------



## ScottMay

Darius Miles Davis said:


> So with the deal Paxson offered Eddy which insisted on taking the genetic test, if he agreed to take the test and it came up positive, as part of agreeing to take the test, the Bulls were going to pay Curry an annuity of $400,000 a year for the next 50 years if he had to retire.
> 
> Wow. I still don't believe Paxson was in the right for insisting that Eddy take the DNA test, but this gesture softens the blow. That shows a lot of committment to his well being.


I guess that's a good deal, but it's still (likely) much, much, much less than what the Knicks are going to give him, presumably with far fewer strings attached and without the precedent (medically, legally, labor relations-y)-setting DNA test.

And the annuity, nice as it would be for working stiffs like us, ain't all it's cracked up to be. There's a reason all those lottery winners take the lump-sum payout as opposed to the time-released one, and it's not just instant gratification.


----------



## narek

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune...bulls,1,5266161.story?coll=cs-bulls-headlines - more information on Paxson's statements.


> The general manager started by asking reporters to "let me ramble a minute." After a long pause, he said, "This has been about as uncomfortable and unusual a situation I could ever imagine. We've attempted from Day 1 to do the right thing, and I'm absolutely confident that we have in every way we went about it. And in a lot of ways we've met resistance in trying to gather all the information we feel we need."
> 
> About three minutes later, Paxson said, "From a basketball standpoint, I understand what I'm doing. But I have an obligation to this organization and the people I work for to do the right thing. And I did the right thing. That's all I've got to say."
> 
> Then, he walked away from the table.


----------



## Greg Ostertag!

YearofDaBulls said:


> I truly believe that Paxsons intentions were for Curry's health.


Likewise. Well, at least that was 50% of the reason. Firstly, there is no way that any person could put the guy out on the court with a fatal condition. I bet the Paxson bashers would be out in force if he did that.

Secondly, do you think Reinsdorf is going to be saying "Yeah, John, throw 60 million at this guy, even if we don't know that he'll be playing past the first week of the season. Make the posters at BBB.net happy." Very easy to say when it's not your money.


----------



## mgolding

Anyone with any guesses as to what Eddy will be getting from Zeke? Im thinking around the 6yr 60 million mark.


----------



## jimmy

hey guys... i just heard about this a few minutes ago

who exactly is involved? has it been made official yet?


----------



## Darius Miles Davis

ScottMay said:


> I guess that's a good deal, but it's still (likely) much, much, much less than what the Knicks are going to give him, presumably with far fewer strings attached and without the precedent (medically, legally, labor relations-y)-setting DNA test.
> 
> And the annuity, nice as it would be for working stiffs like us, ain't all it's cracked up to be. There's a reason all those lottery winners take the lump-sum payout as opposed to the time-released one, and it's not just instant gratification.


The question is not whether you think it's as good of a deal as what he might get should he continue playing. Heck, he must have just agreed to an extension. We'll see how much it's for.

But the question is: Does the news of this annuity plan make you think of Paxson more favorably than you did before you heard of it? I would like to hear from you, DaBullz, Kukoc, MikeDC, futuristxen, any of those who have criticized Paxson pretty heavily these last few weeks. I want to know how or if this changes your feelings.


----------



## WhoDaBest23

:sigh: I can't believe Isaiah's gonna pull this off. What an off-season for the Knicks.


----------



## fleetwood macbull

sloth said:


> No.
> 
> Reference list for players who can't be traded.
> 
> Bulls:
> 
> Malik Allen
> Eddie Basden
> Tyson Chandler
> Chris Duhon
> Othella Harrington
> Darius Songaila
> 
> Knicks:
> 
> Channing Frye
> Jerome James
> David Lee
> Quentin Richardson
> Nate Robinson


sorry

well if not him then its AD after he made that unnecesary public comment about backing up Eddy against the Bulls. Who else could it be? I doubt its Nocioni, thats a core piece


----------



## El Chapu

Please, tell me Noc wasnt included. Im hearing there might be a surprise player going to the Knicks, and that might be Nocioni. That would be dumb, and Pax has shown he is smarter than that.


----------



## nybullsfan

wonder who we got, I hope it includes sweetney


----------



## The ROY

wow...

G Marbury / Robinson
G Richardson / Crawford
F 
F
C Curry / Frye / James

I'm pretty sure none of them were traded..

They have a TEAM..not a very smart one, but very talented..


----------



## ScottMay

johnston797 said:


> Glad it's confirmed that Pax wanted to dictate the terms of whether Curry would have to retire.
> 
> $400,000 a year for the next 50 years - That's like $7M bucks in today's dollars, right? Or less?


It'd probably be at least $10M since it assumes Eddy might need to draw upon it right away, but it's certainly not $20M.


----------



## JeremyB0001

I understand people have an emotional attachment to Curry and I think he could still be a very good player in this league but in light of the circumstances it's hard for me to get too upset with a decision that was a long time coming. We're talking about one of the worst rebounding post players in the NBA with very limited defensive ability on a team built around hustle and defense. We're talking about a player who while both sides gave it the good college try did not get along particularly well with his coach. I can understand being dissapointed that Eddy is no longer part of the team and if he does fulfill his potential it will not happen in a Bulls uniform but if you didn't the possibility of something like this happening and still believed the two sides were capable of gelling together I think that requires a slight bit of naivite.


----------



## kukoc4ever

johnston797 said:


> Glad it's confirmed that Pax wanted to dictate the terms of whether Curry would have to retire.
> 
> $400,000 a year for the next 50 years - That's like $7M bucks in today's dollars, right? Or less?





ScottMay said:


> It'd probably be at least $10M since it assumes Eddy might need to draw upon it right away, but it's certainly not $20M.



Assuming a 7% rate a 50 year, 400,000 per year annuity is worth 5.5 mil


----------



## mgolding

I know this is pretty out there but the only thing that is stopping the bulls from having two offseasons to use there cap space is the 2007 Hinrich extension. That seems reasonably un-paxson like, though its easier to be productive with cap space when you have more time to use it.

On another possibility. If this trade is one that "creates holes" as I believe was stated earlier, then the second player being traded would probably be a big guy. With Curry gone, the trading of another inside player would create a hole.


----------



## narek

WGN-TV just played a bit of the press conference. Pax did say he was happy with the players we're getting, but he did stumble in saying it. He also looked like he'd been up 24 hours straight.


----------



## Sham

MSG SportsDesk just reported we received Eddy Curry and Antonio Davis and Chicago got Tim Thomas, Mike Sweetney, Jermaine Jackson and 2 picks.




Apparently.


----------



## NYKBaller

Eddy Curry and Antonio Davis and Chicago got Tim Thomas, Mike Sweetney, Jermaine Jackson and 2 picks


----------



## Darius Miles Davis

kukoc4ever said:


> Assuming a 7% cost of capital a 50 year, 400,000 per year annuity is worth 5.5 mil.


I don't know what that means (hopefully you will tell me), but it's still a lot of money.

However, I'd still like you to directly answer the question I posed to you above.


----------



## kukoc4ever

ShamBulls said:


> MSG SportsDesk just reported we received Eddy Curry and Antonio Davis and Chicago got Tim Thomas, Mike Sweetney, Jermaine Jackson and 2 picks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently.



Paxson was right about one thing.

We certainly have a "gaping hole" at center now.

Does Paxson have one in his head?


----------



## theanimal23

I read the same thing. What picks did we get? Please tell me it's not SA's pick, or a 2nd rounder?


----------



## MikeDC

So much for cooler heads prevailing. I can only imagine from the tone of the announcement and the refusal to announce who was traded that we've pretty much been hosed. 

If it's so horrible you have to slink away without explaining it, why do it in the first place? 

LOL, maybe it's just a stunt, so when we find out who we got, we just think "It could have been worse" 

Man, what a cluster****. I think DMD pretty well sums up my views, although I held out maybe more hope than this that a different approach from the Bulls would have kept Eddy (who I am fairly confident is gonna be plenty healthy) here and playing.



Darius Miles Davis said:


> In the end, I'm disappointed this had to happen. I guess that means that I feel Paxson went about this the wrong way, though I'm I won't ascribe as much clear blame as some on the board. If it were me, I would have known I could never expect a DNA test on Curry's end, so I would have traded him for something before ever going public. The options were either to trade him or rescind the qualifying offer if I wasn't going to play him.
> 
> I'm usually on your side, Pax, but you didn't do me right on this one. I know you were handcuffed by the situation, but I would have handled this situation differently.
> 
> Eddy Curry, though not a perfect player, was one of my favorite Bulls. I will miss watching him and rooting for him.
> 
> Meanwhile, it looks like Jamal and Eddy get at least one year together in NY. But will Jamal even be starting?


----------



## johnston797

ScottMay said:


> It'd probably be at least $10M since it assumes Eddy might need to draw upon it right away, but it's certainly not $20M.


It depends upon what rate of return you plug in. It's $7M if you plug-in 7%. Even with immeadiate draw.

Glad to see that Paxson not only doesn't trust Eddy to make his own health decisions but he also doesn't trust Eddy to make his financial decisions.


----------



## ScottMay

Darius Miles Davis said:


> The question is not whether you think it's as good of a deal as what he might get should he continue playing. Heck, he must have just agreed to an extension. We'll see how much it's for.
> 
> But the question is: Does the news of this annuity plan make you think of Paxson more favorably than you did before you heard of it? I would like to hear from you, DaBullz, Kukoc, MikeDC, futuristxen, any of those who have criticized Paxson pretty heavily these last few weeks. I want to know how or if this changes your feelings.


It doesn't change my feelings. I guess I just assumed that the "guaranteed" money in whatever multiyear deal Paxson put on the table would be deferred.

It's sort of like the JWill buyout -- at first glance, it seems to be advantageous to the player, but it's more likely that it would have saved the Bulls a ton of money vs. the lump sum Rose wanted, the potential cost of litigation, etc.

Nor does the annuity absolve the ridiculousness of asking Eddy Curry to set legal/medical/philosophical precedent by taking the DNA test or the sort of ugly turns things took during the negotiations.


----------



## Miamiballer2k5

Rumor has it the deal is Curry, Antonio Davis for Tim Thomas, Mike Sweetney, Jermaine Jackson and some picks. So the Bulls lose two centers and get back a small forward and an undersized pf


----------



## johnston797

Darius Miles Davis said:


> I don't know what that means (hopefully you will tell me), but it's still a lot of money.


It means why don't we just call this a $7M package so we can compare it to the QO and also Jay Williams package.


----------



## Aesop

So, I guess Jermaine Jackson gets cut?


----------



## Starbury03

Jermaine Jackson is in the Raptors training camp.


----------



## The OUTLAW

If Chicago is giving up Curry and Davis and get Sweeney in return their front line has officially been nuked into the stone age. I truly hope that you guys aren't giving up all of your big men (sans Chandler) and only get Sweetney in return.


----------



## NYKBaller

Call Isiah Mike Tyson because you've just been raped!


----------



## theanimal23

God, unless those are two 1st round picks, and not SA's, I HATE HATE HATE this trade. Why trade AD for TT? We need AD after losing Eddy. He's a big body.

Man, I hate this. I don't care if anyone does not like Eddy or not, you cannot like this trade. 

By trading Eddy, we should have strictly demanded back Fyre, or Sweet, Ariza, and 2 1st rounders


----------



## mgolding

Jermaine Jackson ...... 2/28/05 1 minimum '05
Tim Thomas ........... 8/1/00 6 $67 million '06
Mike Sweetney ......... 7/7/03 4 $8,633,596 rc '07

Antonio Davis ......... 7/20/01 5 $60 million '06

I dont see how, when you add Eddy to that, that deal would work under the cap. Back to the drawing board


----------



## Starbury03

The Bulls have depth at the bigs with Songalia, Allen and Othllea Harrington who played very well last year,


----------



## Darius Miles Davis

Well, if AD has been included in the deal, maybe we have a chance to get him back sometime this season. I know there is a new rule about this in the CBA this year. The new player can't come back to his old team right away like Payton did. However, I still believe he could come back at some point in the year. Does anyone know when, assuming for a moment that AD and the Knicks agree to a buyout?


----------



## kukoc4ever

Darius Miles Davis said:


> I don't know what that means (hopefully you will tell me), but it's still a lot of money.
> 
> However, I'd still like you to directly answer the question I posed to you above.


Sorry, didn't see the other post.

A stream of $400,000 payments for 50 years discounted yearly at 7% is worth 5.5 million according to my calculator. There may be some aspects of valuing an annuity I'm missing though, since Johnston is saying 7 million. Bottom line it is not all that much in NBA starting center dollars.

I don't think Curry should take the test, and the "deal" is not for much money (NBA wise), so I don't think its that great of an offer from Paxson.


----------



## nybullsfan

everybody was saying the same thing when crawford got traded and guess what we made the playoffs, while e.curry is good (wish him well i still get to see him play on tv like everyday) he had lost of holes in his game rebounding and defense. With that said maybe we will address size either next year Free agency or next year draft you never know. also note that nobody on the knicks play defense in the starting lineup so brown has his work cut out for him.


----------



## YearofDaBulls

If that is the trade I'm disgusted!!


----------



## SecretAgentGuy

This deal ****ing sucks. We give up our only two centers, one of which was an expiring contract, in return for another disappointing PF, an expiring contract, and a couple draft picks? These draft picks better be NY's ****ing unprotected first rounders.


----------



## mgolding

THERE IS NO WAY THIS WORKS UNDER THE SALARY CAP. The bulls would be sending way larger contracts to the knicks


----------



## Sham

Starbury03 said:


> Jermaine Jackson is in the Raptors training camp.



He's not. They enquired about him but never did it.


----------



## Darius Miles Davis

kukoc4ever said:


> Sorry, didn't see the other post.
> 
> A stream of $400,000 payments for 50 years discounted at 7% is worth 5.5 million according to my calculator. There may be some aspects of valuing an annuity I'm missing though, since Johnston is saying 7 million. Bottom line it is not all that much in NBA starting center dollars.
> 
> I don't think Curry should take the test, and its not for much money (NBA wise), so I don't think its that much of an offer from Paxson.


I will ask you the same question again. Does it make you think any differently about John Paxson? 

My question is not about the substance of the offer.


----------



## SecretAgentGuy

Darius Miles Davis said:


> Well, if AD has been included in the deal, maybe we have a chance to get him back sometime this season. I know there is a new rule about this in the CBA this year. The new player can't come back to his old team right away like Payton did. However, I still believe he could come back at some point in the year. Does anyone know when, assuming for a moment that AD and the Knicks agree to a buyout?


..

nm, you said exactly what I was going to say.


----------



## Starbury03

Oh my bad then he needs to be signed


----------



## fleetwood macbull

i guess this means the guys who have been calling AD trash all this time will suddenly become angry hes been traded because hes so vital and good

typical Bulls bashers


----------



## Darius Miles Davis

mgolding said:


> THERE IS NO WAY THIS WORKS UNDER THE SALARY CAP. The bulls would be sending way larger contracts to the knicks


Your numbers as posted above are really screwwy. Go check out hoopshype.com and go to their salaries pages.


----------



## Starbury03

Jackson is a good defense player though


----------



## ScottMay

John Paxson said:


> And in a lot of ways we've met resistance in trying to gather all the information we feel we need.


:laugh:

I guess Paxson considers not taking a test that doctors don't recommend and most state legislatures have outlawed to be "resisting."

I like getting rid of the player's union president in the same bold stroke. It sort of hammers the organizational philosophy home.


----------



## lgtwins

Darius Miles Davis said:


> I will ask you the same question again. Does it make you think any differently about John Paxson?
> 
> My question is not about the substance of the offer.


You are barking at the wrong tree, Darius. None of them will change their tune no matter what. This much I can guarantee.


----------



## BG7

nybullsfan said:


> everybody was saying the same thing when crawford got traded and guess what we made the playoffs, while e.curry is good (wish him well i still get to see him play on tv like everyday) he had lost of holes in his game rebounding and defense.  With that said maybe we will address size either next year Free agency or next year draft you never know. also note that nobody on the knicks play defense in the starting lineup so brown has his work cut out for him.


Difference.

04

Bulls Lose: Jamal Crawford

Bulls Gain: Ben Gordon, Luol Deng, Chris Duhon, and Andres Nocioni.

05

Bulls Lose: Eddy Curry

Bulls Gain: Darius Songaila.


The two situations aren't comparable AT ALL.....to put some whip cream on top, Tyson Chandler stayed healthy all of last season, that may not happen this season.


----------



## futuristxen

I bet Antonio Davis is dancing in the streets. We all know how badly his wife wanted to leave Chicago(sarcasm). She might go Doug Christie's wife on John Paxson if this is true.

Seriously though. On the one hand I'm glad this is finally over, and we didn't end up doing the whole DNA test thing, so I don't have to give up my Bulls fanship. But we got hosed. It looks like we'll be really struggling to get in the playoffs next year.

On the plus side, the New York Bulls should be decent. Should have just made Isiah GM for the Bulls, it would have made his life a lot easier.


----------



## JRose5

fleetwood macbull said:


> i guess this means the guys who have been calling AD trash all this time will suddenly become angry hes been traded because hes so vital and good
> 
> typical Bulls bashers



While I haven't been one of those people, I think its more about losing a second guy who can legitimately play center for us, leaving with us very few, if any of those kind of players.


----------



## Darius Miles Davis

lgtwins said:


> You are barking at the wrong tree, Darius. None of them will change their tune no matter what. This much I can guarantee.


ScottMay gave me his answer to the question. It's really not that hard. I'm not telling them what they have to say.


----------



## theanimal23

So, what can we fetch with 3 draft picks, and TT next year?


----------



## mgolding

Darius Miles Davis said:


> Your numbers as posted above are really screwwy. Go check out hoopshype.com and go to their salaries pages.


Hoopshype:
Antonio Davis 13.9 million


Tim Thomas 14 million
Michael Sweetney 2.1 million

Correct me if Im wrong, but for this to work Eddy is going to be have to be paid approximately no more than 5 million + Jacksons salary? Does that seem possible to you. It doesnt seem right to me


----------



## The OUTLAW

Starbury03 said:


> The Bulls have depth at the bigs with Songalia, Allen and Othllea Harrington who played very well last year,


You are joking right?


----------



## The ROY

GET sweetney's fat *** in shape and start him at PF...his per 48 min average is 20 and 13...put chandler at center

G Hinrich / Duhon / Pargo
G Gordon / Basden / Pike
F Deng / Nocioni / Thomas
F Sweetney / Harrington / Songalia
C Chandler / Allen

Start Sweetney and I bet he averages more than Curry next season.


----------



## Sham

Hoopshype is wrong on AD's salary. It is about 15% more than that. He has a trade kicker that they never credited.


----------



## lgtwins

I wonder why so many people got angry now that it appears to be like AD is part of the deal. We are basically give up one expiring contract and get another one back, right?


----------



## Darius Miles Davis

mgolding said:


> Hoopshype:
> Antonio Davis 13.9 million
> 
> 
> Tim Thomas 14 million
> Michael Sweetney 2.1 million
> 
> Correct me if Im wrong, but for this to work Eddy is going to be have to be paid approximately no more than 5 million + Jacksons salary? Does that seem possible to you. It doesnt seem right to me



Hmm, does look a little strange. Perhaps they are doing something clever with Jackson's salary coming this way so they can raise Curry's salary somewhat.


----------



## MemphisX

mgolding said:


> Hoopshype:
> Antonio Davis 13.9 million
> 
> 
> Tim Thomas 14 million
> Michael Sweetney 2.1 million
> 
> Correct me if Im wrong, but for this to work Eddy is going to be hav to be paid approximately no more than 5 millions + Jacksons salary? Does that seem possible to you. It doesnt seem right to me



For this deal to work without a third team involved, the Bulls have to give up more salary then the Knicks to cover Curry's BYC status. That means that more then Curry and Pike are headed out if Tim Thomas is involved.

Also, I think that Curry's deal is closer to Michael Redd money than Chandler money.


----------



## theanimal23

I don't see the point of getting TT for AD. AD is more valuable to our team than TT would be. TT would be behind Lu and Noc.


----------



## Da Grinch

Darius Miles Davis said:


> I will ask you the same question again. Does it make you think any differently about John Paxson?
> 
> My question is not about the substance of the offer.


for me it does....he actually to me was honest about his feelings . i took the whole thing to be an attempt to lower curry's value.

the trade itself was pretty good for the bulls , much better than he should have hoped to get considering the circumstances....sweetney is very much underrated. bulls fans will be surprised with this and how good he is.


----------



## The ROY

theanimal23 said:


> I don't see the point of getting TT for AD. AD is more valuable to our team than TT would be. TT would be behind Lu and Noc.


exactly...

maybe pax got something else under his sleeve though..


----------



## Starbury03

I'm not joking about the Bulls depth inside. Songalia started for awhile on the kings, Othlea played well last year and started in the playoffs. Chandler need to step up cuz of contract and should get more minutes. Sweentey is pretty decent and Allen is tough and can knock down jumper. Plus Tim Thomas can play some 4. But the do need another 7 footer.


----------



## Future

We have no one who can play C now.... Chandler? um... no. AD could at least play the C position. What do we need Tim Thomas for if we have Noc and Deng... is he supposed to be that big guard we always wanted?


----------



## Greg Ostertag!

Prediction: Chandler, Songaila and Sweetney revel in their new positions, the perimeter force of Hinrich, Gordon, Deng, Duhon and Nocioni continue their upward swing and the Bulls do about as well as they would have done with Curry this year anyway. That is still a brilliant young nucleus no matter which way you cut it... and significantly more jib.


----------



## The ROY

Greg Ostertag! said:


> Prediction: Chandler, Songaila and Sweetney revel in their new positions, the perimeter force of Hinrich, Gordon, Deng, Duhon and Nocioni continue their upward swing and the Bulls do about as well as they would have done with Curry this year anyway. That is still a brilliant young nucleus no matter which way you cut it... and significantly more jib.


Sweetney might excel in chicago..just like Curry may in NY

I think it might be a good deal...seeing as how we really just traded SWEETNEY for CURRY

We did lose one of the BEST low post scorer's in basketball so I'm really not that happy...

Pax definintely knows something we DON'T to trade him for nothing..


----------



## mgolding

This trade doesnt seem right to me. I dont think AD is going anywhere. It makes no sense having AD and TT. They cancel each other out. TTs contract will be there to cover Eddys pay day not ADs salary.


----------



## Sham

Greg Ostertag! said:


> Prediction: Chandler, Songaila and Sweetney revel in their new positions, the perimeter force of Hinrich, Gordon, Deng, Duhon and Nocioni continue their upward swing and the Bulls do about as well as they would have done with Curry this year anyway. That is still a brilliant young nucleus no matter which way you cut it... and significantly more jib.




Plus 25 million in cap room, all our own future picks, and 2 of someone elses.


But hey! Pax sucks!

:boohoo:


----------



## johnston797

Darius Miles Davis said:


> I will ask you the same question again. Does it make you think any differently about John Paxson?


DMD, my feelings towards Paxson per the Curry debacle are not changed. The earlier published stories indicated that Pax was going to guarentee $19M dollars in case he needed to retire. I speculated that it was going to be paid out over 20 years. So no new information IMHO.

Now that I anwsered this questions, please return the favor. Are you comfortable about Pax basically asking\telling Curry to retire if the DNA test come back with bad results?


----------



## MemphisX

Greg Ostertag! said:


> Prediction: Chandler, Songaila and Sweetney revel in their new positions, the perimeter force of Hinrich, Gordon, Deng, Duhon and Nocioni continue their upward swing and the Bulls do about as well as they would have done with Curry this year anyway. That is still a brilliant young nucleus no matter which way you cut it... and significantly more jib.



:whofarted


----------



## Greg Ostertag!

MemphisX said:


> :whofarted


Looks like the same face that would've been given to those who said the Bulls would've finished 4th in the East last year.

There is still way too much talent on this roster to take any backward steps.


----------



## mgolding

What was the show that reported this specific trade to the public. Were any sources named? Is there any credibility attached to this report at all?


----------



## Darius Miles Davis

johnston797 said:


> DMD, my feelings towards Paxson per the Curry debacle are not changed. The earlier published stories indicated that Pax was going to guarentee $19M dollars in case he needed to retire. I speculated that it was going to be paid out over 20 years. So no new information IMHO.
> 
> Now that I anwsered this questions, please return the favor. Are you comfortable about Pax basically asking\telling Curry to retire if the DNA test come back with bad results?


BTW, I wasn't aware that we knew before today that the money was guaranteed even if he failed the test. Perhaps I failed to read!

No, I'm not comfortable with Paxson asking Curry to take the DNA test. It's not just Paxson that would have asked/told Curry to retire had he failed the test. I don't think any NBA team would have taken him on at that point. 

So, IMO, after thinking abou this one for a while, I think Paxson was wrong to request a DNA test. I see why he felt the need to request it, but I wouldn't have required it. Instead, I wouldn't have discussed DNA testing in the press. I would have traded him or released him before getting to that point.

I think the annuity softens the blow for me somewhat. I think it shows compassion and committment on behalf of the Bulls organization to potentially pay him for the next 50 years. But it doesn't make the initial demand for the DNA test right.


----------



## MikeDC

Darius Miles Davis said:


> The question is not whether you think it's as good of a deal as what he might get should he continue playing. Heck, he must have just agreed to an extension. We'll see how much it's for.
> 
> But the question is: Does the news of this annuity plan make you think of Paxson more favorably than you did before you heard of it? I would like to hear from you, DaBullz, Kukoc, MikeDC, futuristxen, any of those who have criticized Paxson pretty heavily these last few weeks. I want to know how or if this changes your feelings.


Well, I'd have to know something about the details. A few points to consider.

* Typically NBA buyouts are structured as lump sums or a series of near term payments. Stretching anything out over 50 years is a significant plus for the Bulls.

* Annuities - did Pax actually specify that? - have all kinds of rules attached to them that cash doesn't. Especially regarding who gets them, how taxes are paid, and what sort of strings are attached after death. For a guy that would be at a higher risk of dying young, those things become significant issues. Annuities, perhaps typically for the Bulls, represent a very risk averse portfolio. Typically your investment gains are capped pretty severely vs. what you could do if it was your own money, to thus insure a guaranteed return.

* Again, it seems perhaps this was conditional on Curry retiring if he tested positive, meaning he was predisposed to, not suffering from HCM. Even if he were predisposed, it's by far not clear Curry should retire. This contract may well make the decision for him.

* Having to go from $5M a year to $500k a year all at once would quite probably pose a nearly immediate and crippling liquidity constraint on Eddy. He doesn't even have to be in big time debt for this. Just imagine if you were, say, making $50k a year, and then suddenly had to get by on 25k. It's easy to say for someone rich that they can just sell off their extra homes and downsizing their lifestyle or whatever, but it's still a tough thing to do, and in the short-run it can be very expensive. Couple that with having to do it not because you're sick but because you took a test that says you might get sick someday, and it's tough pill to swallow, and potentially a very costly one. In contrast, with some money up front, you can do quite a bit more things- sell off assets over a longer period, ease into your changed lifestyle, invest differently.

* Perhaps not coincidentally to some of these facts, I remember an extraordinarily long deferred payment scheme in a buyout was one of the issues that Skiles objected to in his contract negotiation.

----------

So no, I don't give the Bulls (again, it's not Pax) a huge amount of credit for this. As with the Jay situation, doing nothing at all would have been extremely poor form, so the Bulls, to their credit, did something. The something they did was good, but it also had lots of sophisticated stuff that worked in their favor whereas the typical NBA buyout seems to be a bit more favorable to the player. That doesn't mean the Bulls are bad, just a simple recognition that the Bulls set things up in a way that's, from a player's perspective, not as good. To me, all that that means I don't have a lot bad to say about it, but I don't have a lot good to say about it either. It's kind of like tipping. You don't get props for giving 15% for decent service. It's a tacit obligation. You only get props if you reward good service, and you're a real ******* if you don't do anything at all. Just doing what you're supposed to do don't make you special.

To me, the more important factor seemed to be that from the reports I saw, they were never offering him a deal, even if he proved healthy, that seemed to match what I think he'd get next year as a UFA. Obviously they were incomplete, but given the odious DNA/retirement conditions and the probably he would make more or at least not lose much by waiting until next year, I didn't see a contract from the Bulls I would sign if I were Curry.


----------



## lgtwins

johnston797 said:


> DMD, my feelings towards Paxson per the Curry debacle are not changed. The earlier published stories indicated that Pax was going to guarentee $19M dollars in case he needed to retire. I speculated that it was going to be paid out over 20 years. So no new information IMHO.
> 
> Now that I anwsered this questions, please return the favor. <b>Are you comfortable about Pax basically asking\telling Curry to retire if the DNA test come back with bad results?</b>


Are you this really is the condition for annuinity to kick in? Not like "In case he has to retire for health reason"

Do you really think Paxon can force Curry solely based on DNA testing and nothing else? Especially when DNA testing only say predisposition not the disease itself?

I have my doubt that the condition on the annuinity is anything like "one positive DNA testing and you are out of the NBA" Someone care to enlighten me on this matter.


----------



## Ron Mexico

knicks vs. bulls games will be even more fun now


----------



## The ROY

Ron Mexico said:


> knicks vs. bulls games will be even more fun now


yea, it was alot of fun when we were beating them..but looking at their roster, um..they probably got us now...


----------



## bullet

We traded AD for TT not because it makes sense , but because it was the only way to make the deal work under cba.

I also think thats the reason Pax was reported 'frustrated' - he had a phonecall to make to AD , the good ol' Pax/Skiles typo leader. I think he stated last season that in case he's traded he'll retire.

2 picks??? - which ones. one can be SA's 2006. The Knicks pick is owned by Jazz (lottery protected till 2010). I still hope Ariza is included.


----------



## Hustle

Fow news adn WGN will announce trade in ten minutes. I want a source not just here say.


----------



## YearofDaBulls

Ariza woudl have been a nice addition but I doubt we get him now.


----------



## The ROY

bullet said:


> I still hope Ariza is included.


AS DO I!!

Jermaine Jackson, Tim Thomas & Sweetney is an absolutely FRUSTRATING core to look at in a trade. I think Pax may have been frustrated cuz he couldn't pull off Lee or Ariza. WE SHALL SEE!


----------



## FreeSpeech101

I like it...

Our defense is going to be amazing come fall, and Gordon/Deng/Chandler/Songalia/Sweetney should pick up the scoring slack. Hopefully Chandler has developed his baby hook, because we are going to need him to hit that shot.


----------



## johnston797

...


----------



## lgtwins

Where is NY Post when we need them? They are rather quick on matter like this although whether what they said was correct one is another matter.


----------



## mgolding

bullet said:


> *We traded AD for TT not because it makes sense , but because it was the only way to make the deal work under cba.*
> 
> I also think thats the reason Pax was reported 'frustrated' - he had a phonecall to make to AD , the good ol' Pax/Skiles typo leader. I think he stated last season that in case he's traded he'll retire.
> 
> 2 picks??? - which ones. one can be SA's 2006. The Knicks pick is owned by Jazz (lottery protected till 2010). I still hope Ariza is included.


How does a trade that is centered around Eddy Curry get done by adding players from both sides that have near on the same salary payments this year? As far as I can tell adding AD makes this trade harder to get done.


----------



## Hustle

The ROY said:


> AS DO I!!
> 
> Jermaine Jackson, Tim Thomas & Sweetney is an absolutely FRUSTRATING core to look at in a trade. I think Pax may have been frustrated cuz he couldn't pull off Lee or Ariza. WE SHALL SEE!


 If we don't at least get Lee I will be sick

AD won't play in NY he will only play for Chicago. I hope he comes back if this trade includes him.


----------



## Machinehead

I still don't believe Antonio Davis is part of the trade


----------



## JRose5

How does Davis have to be included to make it work if his and Thomas' contract are basically even (14 to 13.9 is what I believe I read)?


Edit: That is, assuming we weren't after Thomas primarily, which I doubt we were because we have Deng and Noch.


----------



## ScottMay

The AP story on the Trib site is quoting the Daily News as reporting Curry will get a six-year, $35 million dollar deal.

Can I have some fries with my **** sandwich?

We just gave away a major contributor, all of 22 years old, for a 47-win team for (the very unlikely to be realized) fear of losing 30-40 million dollars -- an amount the Bulls can easily recoup in a single year of operation. 

Appalling.


----------



## johnston797

lgtwins said:


> Johnston797 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ]*Now that I anwsered this questions, please return the favor. Are you comfortable about Pax basically asking\telling Curry to retire if the DNA test come back with bad results?*
> 
> 
> 
> Are you this really is the condition for annuinity to kick in? Not like "In case he has to retire for health reason"
> 
> Do you really think Paxon can force Curry solely based on DNA testing and nothing else? Especially when DNA testing only say predisposition not the disease itself?
Click to expand...


This is what I don't understand from die-hard "Blood on the Horn" Paxson supporters. Curry has taken every non-DNA heart test known to man. Famous docters have cleared him. Zero doctors are willing to say he should stop playing based on the non-DNA test results. Some, but not all, doctors would like him to the DNA test.

If there is no DNA test result that would stop him from playing, why is the DNA test important? And if the DNA results indicate that he should retire, doesn't that mean that a test that only shows pre-disposion in effect caused him to retire?


----------



## nybullsfan

i hope pax has his eye on nene next year asap size is underatted though.


----------



## Sham

As I said before, AD's contract is actually over 15 million in value. Hoopshype, which people regard as gospel even though they are often wrong, didn't factor in his trade kicker.


----------



## MikeDC

Darius Miles Davis said:


> I don't know what that means (hopefully you will tell me), but it's still a lot of money.
> 
> However, I'd still like you to directly answer the question I posed to you above.


K4E assigned the present value at $5.5M or so, which is basically the QO.

What this means is that in financial terms, the $20M figure is a fiction. If I call up a broker tomorrow, and say "hey, I've got the QO to invest, or I've got $400k a year for 50 years, which is better?", he'd say they're about the same thing. If he's your typical arrogant "I can beat the market" type broker, he'll tell you to take the $5M.


Yet if you asked him the same thing, but replaced the QO with "20M", he'd unambiguously tell you you're better off with the $20M.

Why? Because in non-financial terms, a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. It's easy to confuse lay people with throwing around the term $20M, but *a dollar today is worth a lot more than a dollar in 50 years.*


----------



## mgolding

ScottMay said:


> The AP story on the Trib site is quoting the Daily News as reporting Curry will get a six-year, $35 million dollar deal.
> 
> Can I have some fries with my **** sandwich?
> 
> We just gave away a major contributor, all of 22 years old, for a 47-win team for (the very unlikely to be realized) fear of losing 30-40 million dollars -- an amount the Bulls can easily recoup in a single year of operation.
> 
> Appalling.


If that is true the trade works but it would seem a bit out there. If all Curry wanted was the mid-level then why did he need the sign and trade. Im pretty sure there are some other teams out there that didnt use theres


----------



## Sham

ScottMay said:


> The AP story on the Trib site is quoting the Daily News as reporting Curry will get a six-year, $35 million dollar deal.
> 
> Can I have some fries with my **** sandwich?
> 
> We just gave away a major contributor, all of 22 years old, for a 47-win team for (the very unlikely to be realized) fear of losing 30-40 million dollars -- an amount the Bulls can easily recoup in a single year of operation.
> 
> Appalling.





You went from future to present tense damn quickly there. Stay in the future until we have some facts.


----------



## Hustle

> "The Bulls dealt center Eddy Curry to the New York Knicks on Monday, ending a contentious negotiation in which Chicago insisted the restricted free agent take a DNA test over a heart problem. In making the announcement, an obviously frustrated Bulls general manager John Paxson did not specify what Chicago got in return and he did not field questions." MSNBC.com
> 
> "We will have an announcement tomorrow morning,” Bulls public relations director Sebrina Brewster said Monday night. “All we can say right now is we traded Eddy to the Knicks." MSNBC.com


WE HAVE TO WAIT UNTIL TOMMOROW.


----------



## Sham

Hustle said:



> WE HAVE TO WAIT UNTIL TOMMOROW.



WE KNEW THAT 15 PAGES AGO.


----------



## theanimal23

ScottMay said:


> The AP story on the Trib site is quoting the Daily News as reporting Curry will get a six-year, $35 million dollar deal.
> 
> Can I have some fries with my **** sandwich?
> 
> We just gave away a major contributor, all of 22 years old, for a 47-win team for (the very unlikely to be realized) fear of losing 30-40 million dollars -- an amount the Bulls can easily recoup in a single year of operation.
> 
> Appalling.


Eddy makes half of Dampier, slightly less than half of Sammy D, less than Derek Fisher, around the same as Hedo, like 15 mil less than Foyle....

Eddy left, b/c he would not sign the QO or was on very bad terms with the Bulls b/c of the DNA test.

That contract is so cheap. I wonder if there are incentives involved? But how you could not sign any young 7 footer with at least an average game for that much?


----------



## bullet

mgolding said:


> How does a trade that is centered around Eddy Curry get done by adding players from both sides that have near on the same salary payments this year? As far as I can tell adding AD makes this trade harder to get done.



Because when you add 13 mil to the trade from each side , the 125% rule gets much bigger.

Eddy counts for 1/2 of his salary (BYC) so if it starts at 8 he'll count as 4 mil. Sweets is 2 mil and a min contract is 600-700k more. 

2.7X1.25= 3.375 +100k don't reach 4 mil.

But if you add 13 mil a side:

13+eddy's 4= 17 mil

13+2.7 = 15.7 mil X 1.25 =19.625 - within trade limmits!


----------



## rlucas4257

The picks coming back better be NYs picks, with no lottery protection if we dont get Frye AND Ariza as part of this deal. TT is a great guy but doesnt fit into what the Bulls want. Sweetney, oh my, dont get me started. But give Pax the benefit of the doubt, he has earned it. But its a tough night to be a Bulls fan. Quite frankly, I think he could have done a better deal with atleast 2 other teams, Denver and GS, who were rumored to be interesting. Give Isiah credit. He pursued it and for the second year in a row, was able to force Pax to make a deal, that atleast on paper, that wasnt favorable. Last year however, it helped team morale. But offensively, this deal makes it much harder on Ben Gordon, Kirk Hinrich and Luol Deng.


----------



## Slasher

Anyone know the final deal yet or do we really have to wait till morning. I bet something will be leaked soon..


----------



## Miamiballer2k5

this is a great thread to read, many of you Chicago fans know what you are talking about, we could use this more at the Heat board.


----------



## MikeDC

By the way, if AD is going, he's not coming back quick via the Knicks waiving him!

http://danrosenbaum.blogspot.com/2005/08/update-how-will-new-nba-collective.htmlhttp://proxy.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=stein_marc&id=2121672 
Gary Payton Rule: Players will have to wait 30 days in the regular season (20 days in the offseason) before being allowed to sign with the team that traded them away.


----------



## kamego

Nothing leaked as of yet.


----------



## Hustle

ShamBulls said:


> WE KNEW THAT 15 PAGES AGO.


 Sorry I only read 7 pages


----------



## FanOfAll8472

rlucas4257 said:


> The picks coming back better be NYs picks, with no lottery protection if we dont get Frye AND Ariza as part of this deal. TT is a great guy but doesnt fit into what the Bulls want. Sweetney, oh my, dont get me started. But give Pax the benefit of the doubt, he has earned it. But its a tough night to be a Bulls fan. Quite frankly, I think he could have done a better deal with atleast 2 other teams, Denver and GS, who were rumored to be interesting. Give Isiah credit. He pursued it and for the second year in a row, was able to force Pax to make a deal, that atleast on paper, that wasnt favorable. Last year however, it helped team morale. But offensively, this deal makes it much harder on Ben Gordon, Kirk Hinrich and Luol Deng.


Why not Sweetney? Honestly, I don't really like the guy, but he is a low post scorer that can help fill Curry's void. Without him, Harrington is the only post scorer.


----------



## Hustle

Mikedc said:


> By the way, if AD is going, he's not coming back quick via the Knicks waiving him!
> 
> http://danrosenbaum.blogspot.com/2005/08/update-how-will-new-nba-collective.htmlhttp://proxy.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=stein_marc&id=2121672
> Gary Payton Rule: Players will have to wait 30 days in the regular season (20 days in the offseason) before being allowed to sign with the team that traded them away.


 It' s not like AD needs preseason any way.


----------



## BG7

35 over 6 years doesn't sound right. I doubt its true. Why would Eddy take a deal that would be the QO over 6 years. Can the Knicks even get him for 6 years, or does it have to be 5....? They were reporting that IT was willing to give nearly 12 million a year a few days ago in various papers, but 35 over 6, Paxson is a fool if that is indeed the contract.


----------



## bullsville

ScottMay said:


> *The AP story on the Trib site is quoting the Daily News as reporting Curry will get a six-year, $35 million dollar deal.*
> 
> Can I have some fries with my **** sandwich?
> 
> We just gave away a major contributor, all of 22 years old, for a 47-win team for (the very unlikely to be realized) fear of losing 30-40 million dollars -- an amount the Bulls can easily recoup in a single year of operation.
> 
> Appalling.


*Complete bulldoodoo. The MLE would be $37.875 million over 6 years, do you honestly think that Eddy signed a 6 year deal for LESS than the MLE?*

That may be all that is guaranteed as the rest may be incentives, but they would have to be "likely to be achieved" incentives that will count against the cap- otherwise, why would AD be involved? If Eddy signed that deal, we wouldn't need AD or Thomas to make the salary works.

Come on man, I know you don't believe that.


----------



## Machinehead

Mikedc said:


> By the way, if AD is going, he's not coming back quick via the Knicks waiving him!
> 
> http://danrosenbaum.blogspot.com/2005/08/update-how-will-new-nba-collective.htmlhttp://proxy.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=stein_marc&id=2121672
> Gary Payton Rule: Players will have to wait 30 days in the regular season (20 days in the offseason) before being allowed to sign with the team that traded them away.


He probably would have started the season on the IL anyway


----------



## LoyalBull

Sorry... but if we dealt a large ending deal like AD's (which is a pretty valuable trade asset) for what amounts to ANOTHER player we would have to go through hell in bargaining with to resign...

Sorry Pax... this was handled poorly.


----------



## JeremyB0001

ScottMay said:


> The AP story on the Trib site is quoting the Daily News as reporting Curry will get a six-year, $35 million dollar deal.
> 
> Can I have some fries with my **** sandwich?
> 
> We just gave away a major contributor, all of 22 years old, for a 47-win team for (the very unlikely to be realized) fear of losing 30-40 million dollars -- an amount the Bulls can easily recoup in a single year of operation.
> 
> Appalling.


Well I guess Pax is a terrible GM along with every single club that had cap space or a midlevel this offseason. The fact that the Knicks were one of the only and perhaps the only team willing to sign Curry to even a mid sized deal has to count for something, right?


----------



## Sham

> Sorry... but if we dealt a large ending deal like AD's (which is a pretty valuable trade asset) for what amounts to ANOTHER player we would have to go through hell in bargaining with to resign...




Tim Thomas's 14 million contract expires this year. He's also a far better player. I failt o see how we lost said asset.


----------



## Machinehead

With regard to the reported annuity and the dollar today versus dollar for tomorrow argument 

How do any of you know that this money was not indexed to a CPI (Consumer Price Index ?)

Can any of you confidently say that Eddy's $400K in 10 years doesn't buy him the same basket of goods that it can buy him today ?


----------



## mgolding

bullet said:


> Because when you add 13 mil to the trade from each side , the 125% rule gets much bigger.
> 
> *Eddy counts for 1/2 of his salary * (BYC) so if it starts at 8 he'll count as 4 mil. Sweets is 2 mil and a min contract is 600-700k more.
> 
> 2.7X1.25= 3.375 +100k don't reach 4 mil.
> 
> But if you add 13 mil a side:
> 
> 13+eddy's 4= 17 mil
> 
> 13+2.7 = 15.7 mil X 1.25 =19.625 - within trade limmits!


Thanks for that, I didnt realise Eddys salary only counts for only half. In that case the deal works fine. 

Now Im walking away from this because I really dont want to think that this is the deal. This trade basically means that we're getting SAs pick (25-30) and maybe even a second rounder for Eddy Curry as NYs 1st round pick will be going to Utah. I would have let him walk to spare myself insult.


----------



## ScottMay

nybullsfan said:


> i hope pax has his eye on nene next year asap size is underatted though.


Nene's going to be sporting an ear-to-ear smile for the next 10 months. He knows the Bulls are going to have to wildly overpay for a big man. He or Pryzbilla will probably get something close to the max.


----------



## Greg Ostertag!

Machinehead said:


> With regard to the reported annuity and the dollar today versus dollar for tomorrow argument
> 
> How do any of you know that this money was not indexed to a CPI (Consumer Price Index ?)
> 
> Can any of you confidently say that Eddy's $400K in 10 years doesn't buy him the same basket of goods that it can buy him today ?


Exactly. Surely the payments would take inflation etc. into account. Neither side is that dumb.


----------



## MikeDC

ScottMay said:


> The AP story on the Trib site is quoting the Daily News as reporting Curry will get a six-year, $35 million dollar deal.
> 
> Can I have some fries with my **** sandwich?
> 
> We just gave away a major contributor, all of 22 years old, for a 47-win team for (the very unlikely to be realized) fear of losing 30-40 million dollars -- an amount the Bulls can easily recoup in a single year of operation.
> 
> Appalling.


dear lord.

Two things. First, if that's it (and since the Trib is reporting it, I think that's a safe assumption), the Bulls are unequivocally idiots who boxed themselves into a horrible situation. They could have just signed the kid for that and bought him out if it turned out he couldn't play. It's not much different than their $20M guaranteed. Oh wait, that was really less than $6M guaranteed. But I digress. They could have easily just stuck with him for that and still had a zillion dollars to work with next year, Curry as a potentially tradeable and effective piece, and the piece of mind of being able to be conservative with his health if they felt it truly necessary.

Second, with that contract, I don't think Curry would be BYC- his salary vs. last year won't be much different. That means AD and TT or whomever probably wouldn't need to be included to make this deal work.


----------



## Machinehead

And I think Isiah goes hard after Wally Sczcerbiak now too


----------



## Machinehead

Curry was BYC at anything over $4.8M I believe ( 120% of his previous year's salary ) 

What counts for trade is 120% of prior year's salary or 50% of new salary whichever is the greater


----------



## johnston797

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/04/sports/basketball/04knicks.html?oref=login



> Precise details of the trade were still being worked, and as of 9:30 p.m. Eastern, the teams had not conducted the required conference call with league officials to have the deal approved. It was expected that it could be completed by Tuesday morning.
> ...
> 
> Curry will sign a five-year deal, believed to be worth about $10 million in the first season, and join the Knicks.


----------



## MichaelOFAZ

I haven't read all of the previous posts on this topic, so if I repeat something that has already been said, please forgive me. I can't for the life of me figure out what Paxson is thinking. Ok, so Curry and his agent refused to get a DNA test. You can't tell me that there wasn't an alternative solution. Couldn't they have taken a Lloyds of London catrostrophic insurance policy out on Eddy and then factored it into the terms of Eddy's contract? After all, he was giving a clean bill of health by several reknown cardiologists, wasn't he? And suppose an agreement wasn't reachable between the two parties ... you can't tell me that he couldn't get more than what he got for the one of the top four true centers in the East than what the Knicks have to offer. The upside for Curry is phenomonal and well worth taking a risk. 

He's just made the Knicks respectable by giving him our two best players (Crawford and Curry)


----------



## Miamiballer2k5

OMG they gave him almost max money?


----------



## MikeDC

bullsville said:


> *Complete bulldoodoo. The MLE would be $37.875 million over 6 years, do you honestly think that Eddy signed a 6 year deal for LESS than the MLE?*
> 
> That may be all that is guaranteed as the rest may be incentives, but they would have to be "likely to be achieved" incentives that will count against the cap- otherwise, why would AD be involved? If Eddy signed that deal, we wouldn't need AD or Thomas to make the salary works.
> 
> Come on man, I know you don't believe that.


Well, it's not like it's pulled out of thin air - it's right there in the Trib.

And perhaps AD and TT aren't involved?

Just can't say at this point.


----------



## Machinehead

Mikedc said:


> Well, it's not like it's pulled out of thin air - it's right there in the Trib.
> 
> And perhaps AD and TT aren't involved?
> 
> Just can't say at this point.


I am fairly sure they would not be


----------



## MikeDC

johnston797 said:


> http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/04/sports/basketball/04knicks.html?oref=login


Well, there's our conflicting report Bullsville


----------



## mizenkay

also in the NY Times article:

_The Knicks will send forwards Tim Thomas and Mike Sweetney, and next year's first-round pick, to the Bulls, according to an Eastern Conference team executive who had knowledge of the deal. In exchange, the Knicks will receive Curry, veteran forward Antonio Davis and possibly draft picks. For salary-cap purposes, the Knicks will also sign and immediately trade guard Jermaine Jackson to Chicago._


----------



## lgtwins

Mikedc said:


> K4E assigned the present value at $5.5M or so, which is basically the QO.
> 
> What this means is that in financial terms, the $20M figure is a fiction. If I call up a broker tomorrow, and say "hey, I've got the QO to invest, or I've got $400k a year for 50 years, which is better?", he'd say they're about the same thing. If he's your typical arrogant "I can beat the market" type broker, he'll tell you to take the $5M.
> 
> 
> Yet if you asked him the same thing, but replaced the QO with "20M", he'd unambiguously tell you you're better off with the $20M.
> 
> Why? Because in non-financial terms, a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. It's easy to confuse lay people with throwing around the term $20M, but *a dollar today is worth a lot more than a dollar in 50 years.*


But another look at thsi issue is that $20M today you don't know how long it will last? $400,000 a year for 50 years means 50 years of financial security. Of course, nothing compared to what NBA center would earn. But if you think the annuinity is effective only when he really has to retire due to health reason, meaning he won't be able to play not just for Bulls but any team at all, then it is in fact 50 years of financial security. Considering how Curry reportedly wasted away his rookie contract money so far, I recomment this long term deal for his own sake. After tax, lumpsum $20M will bem ore like $10M and how long it will last. After all he reportdely spent away his rookie contract only after 4 years, sum of about $16 (is it $12M?) . Not that this is any of my business, the way how Curry spend his money.


----------



## YearofDaBulls

When did Crawford become our best player before we traded him? Seriously, some of you guys need ot get over him. He's not that great.


----------



## mgolding

Chandler
Sweetney
Deng
Gordon
Hinrich

Harrington
Songalia
Noc/Thomas
Basden/Pike
Duhon

41 wins


----------



## johnston797

Re: $20M over 20 years vs. lump sum.



lgtwins said:


> Not that this is any of my business, the way how Curry spend his money.


Yea, but Paxson wanted to make it his business. Not sure if it was a PR move or b/c he doesn't consider Curry to be an intelligent, mature adult. Neither motivation would make Curry feel too warm and fuzzy.


----------



## bullet

> The Bulls agreed to trade center Eddy Curry to the New York Knicks on Monday, ending a contentious negotiation in which Chicago insisted the restricted free agent take a DNA test over a heart problem.
> Chicago also sent veteran center Antonio Davis to the Knicks, who *traded away forwards Tim Thomas, Michael Sweetney and Jermaine Jackson. Several draft choices also changed hands in the deal* , according to an executive in the Eastern Conference who spoke on condition of anonymity.


http://www.sportsline.com/nba/story/8924218


----------



## JeremyB0001

ScottMay said:


> Nene's going to be sporting an ear-to-ear smile for the next 10 months. He knows the Bulls are going to have to wildly overpay for a big man. He or Pryzbilla will probably get something close to the max.


Because paying 10 million a season for a 22 year old who averages 16 and 5.4 in 29 mpg on .538 shooting (16.28 PER) and plays no defense is a great signing and paying the same for a 23 year old who averages 9.6 and 5.9 in 24 mpg on .503 shooting (15.60) and plays above average defense is wildly overpaying? I fail to see a huge difference there.


----------



## MikeDC

Machinehead said:


> With regard to the reported annuity and the dollar today versus dollar for tomorrow argument
> 
> How do any of you know that this money was not indexed to a CPI (Consumer Price Index ?)
> 
> Can any of you confidently say that Eddy's $400K in 10 years doesn't buy him the same basket of goods that it can buy him today ?


Well, that's typically not how annuities are done, but it could be. Still, indexing to CPI wouldn't make a good showing against the market. CPI typically gives you between 1.5-3% annual increases. When you calculate the NPV of a stream of income, you're doing it against a present value that you can invest in the stock market (say at 7% on average), not just inflation.


----------



## JRose5

Mikedc said:


> Well, that's typically not how annuities are done, but it could be. Still, indexing to CPI wouldn't make a good showing against the market. CPI typically gives you between 1.5-3% annual increases. When you calculate the NPV of a stream of income, you're doing it against a present value that you can invest in the stock market (say at 7% on average), not just inflation.



You and your fancy abbreviations don't impress me Mike.



...Ok, yea they do.


----------



## bullsville

Mikedc said:


> Well, there's our conflicting report Bullsville


Damn, that was quick! 

Even though we are on different sides of the Curry "saga", I know that you don't believe he signed for less than the MLE any more than I do.

Because if he did, and Pax wouldn't pay him that, I'd already be on the way to Deerfield to have an unpleasant word or 100 with Pax tomorrow morning.

Well, I'd probably wait until the morning to drive up there, even in rush hour it's not more than a 1 1/2 hour trip...


----------



## SDBullsFan

Hey guys, long-time reader, first timed responding, lifetime Bulls fan. LoyalBulls can vouch for me, we go back.

But anyways, a couple of posts irked me a bit, so please don't get too angry with me:



> Two things. First, if that's it (and since the Trib is reporting it, I think that's a safe assumption), the Bulls are unequivocally idiots who boxed themselves into a horrible situation. They could have just signed the kid for that and bought him out if it turned out he couldn't play. It's not much different than their $20M guaranteed. Oh wait, that was really less than $6M guaranteed. But I digress.


The Bulls had no choice but to be boxed into a horrible situation. What would have even been more horrible for the Bulls would be guaranteeing 11 million a year to a HEALTHY Eddy Curry. Also, it's not that easy to just buy him out. The money isn't so much the problem, the salary cap is. Just because you buy a player out doesn't mean he doesn't count under the cap. Hell, Eddie Robinson was taking up cap space this season.



> He's just made the Knicks respectable by giving him our two best players (Crawford and Curry)


Eddy Curry and Jamal Crawford have embodied EVERYTHING horrible about the post-Jordan era. We should all be rejoicing their leaving and hope we never EVER see them wearing Red and Black again.

On to my thoughts on the trade (posted on another MB):

It's finally over, thank goodness.

This was really the only course of action to take. No teams wanted anything to do with Eddy except the Knicks (big surprise there), and the fact that he would turn down 400,000 a year for 50 years just makes him a greedy *****. What good is 6/35 if you won't be alive to collect it?

In response to Tim Thomas and Antonio Davis being involved in the trade:

I really don't think that's true. This deal would essentially be Michael Sweetney and Jermaine Jackson for Eddy followed by Antonio Davis for Tim Thomas. 

Tim Thomas makes approximately 75,000 more than Antonio Davis next season, meaning the two essentially nullify any financial contributions made by one another to the deal. Also, if Pax was to do a salary-dump for salary-dump trade, he wouldn't do it at a position where the Bulls are strong, SF, and it wouldn't involve the team-leader and captain.

I do hope Micahel Sweetney is part of the deal, they received at least one first round draft pick, and I'm still holding out hope Trevor Ariza is involved as well.

Eddy's career is officially over. The New York media is going to absolutely SWALLOW him whole, and if he thought Scott Skiles was bad, he AIN'T SEEN NOTHIN YET. 

Larry Brown is going to go nuts with him. His lack of rebounding, defense, and decent physical shape is going to drive him up the wall. Brown isn't going to have the time to massage many more egos than Marbury's and Crawford's, so I'd bet my bottom dollar Curry immediately becomes his whipping boy.

We all know how thin Curry's skin is. I'm guessing he'll probably turn to his twinkies and doughnuts and wind up this generation's Shawn Kemp without the spectacular career prior to the weight gain, alcohol abuse, and 88 illegitimate children.

I've never been one to bite my tongue about Eddy, and I'm not going to here. He didn't fit the team concept or style of play. I honestly believe the Bulls will be a better team without him. Curry supporters LOVE pointing out his "dominating" 16 points per game last season, but what they fail to mention is the ridiculous amount of points he gives up by turning the ball over so much, failing to rebound, failing to pass, failing to play defense, and having to come out of the game after running the floor six times.

The benefits of someone new starting may not be evident when comparing season-long statistics between Eddy and his replacement, but they will be evident on the scoreboards.

Good riddance Eddy. You're now the enemy, and I know you're going to fail miserably. The fact that it's going to happen in New York makes it that much sweeter.


----------



## Miamiballer2k5

mizenkay said:


> also in the NY Times article:
> 
> _The Knicks will send forwards Tim Thomas and Mike Sweetney, and next year's first-round pick, to the Bulls, according to an Eastern Conference team executive who had knowledge of the deal. In exchange, the Knicks will receive Curry, veteran forward Antonio Davis and possibly draft picks. For salary-cap purposes, the Knicks will also sign and immediately trade guard Jermaine Jackson to Chicago._


*I CALLED IT* :clap:


----------



## futuristxen

ScottMay said:


> The AP story on the Trib site is quoting the Daily News as reporting Curry will get a six-year, $35 million dollar deal.
> 
> Can I have some fries with my **** sandwich?
> 
> We just gave away a major contributor, all of 22 years old, for a 47-win team for (the very unlikely to be realized) fear of losing 30-40 million dollars -- an amount the Bulls can easily recoup in a single year of operation.
> 
> Appalling.


That makes me want to vomit in my own mouth. 6 years 35 mill? That's it? Pax couldn't swallow that?


----------



## Machinehead

If Curry starts at $10M then his salary out for the Bulls is $5M 

New York needs to send out between $7.5M and $13.33M 

Let's say two of Ariza, Sweetney and Lee are principals 

That's $3M 

The only contract that they can send with their principals to make work is Malik Rose 

Bulls receive $9M 

But for the fact we only count Eddy going out at $5M we need to send say another $4M to match it up 

That's where Pike and Pargo come into play .. who together equal around $4M ..to a cap friendly team like the Hawks with cash considerations

But if I'm wrong about Rose and it is TT ..then we would need to saddle Pike with Eddy to New York who would have $13M coming in 

TT , Ariza and Sweetney go out at $16.5M .. so it works 

Then there are the draft picks as without them we could lose all players to free agency next year and we would have given Eddy away for no compensation


----------



## Miamiballer2k5

SDBullsFan said:


> Hey guys, long-time reader, first timed responding, lifetime Bulls fan. LoyalBulls can vouch for me, we go back.
> 
> But anyways, a couple of posts irked me a bit, so please don't get too angry with me:
> 
> 
> 
> The Bulls had no choice but to be boxed into a horrible situation. What would have even been more horrible for the Bulls would be guaranteeing 11 million a year to a HEALTHY Eddy Curry. Also, it's not that easy to just buy him out. The money isn't so much the problem, the salary cap is. Just because you buy a player out doesn't mean he doesn't count under the cap. Hell, Eddie Robinson was taking up cap space this season.
> 
> 
> 
> Eddy Curry and Jamal Crawford have embodied EVERYTHING horrible about the post-Jordan era. We should all be rejoicing their leaving and hope we never EVER see them wearing Red and Black again.
> 
> On to my thoughts on the trade (posted on another MB):
> 
> It's finally over, thank goodness.
> 
> This was really the only course of action to take. No teams wanted anything to do with Eddy except the Knicks (big surprise there), and the fact that he would turn down 400,000 a year for 50 years just makes him a greedy *****. What good is 6/35 if you won't be alive to collect it?
> 
> In response to Tim Thomas and Antonio Davis being involved in the trade:
> 
> I really don't think that's true. This deal would essentially be Michael Sweetney and Jermaine Jackson for Eddy followed by Antonio Davis for Tim Thomas.
> 
> Tim Thomas makes approximately 75,000 more than Antonio Davis next season, meaning the two essentially nullify any financial contributions made by one another to the deal. Also, if Pax was to do a salary-dump for salary-dump trade, he wouldn't do it at a position where the Bulls are strong, SF, and it wouldn't involve the team-leader and captain.
> 
> I do hope Micahel Sweetney is part of the deal, they received at least one first round draft pick, and I'm still holding out hope Trevor Ariza is involved as well.
> 
> Eddy's career is officially over. The New York media is going to absolutely SWALLOW him whole, and if he thought Scott Skiles was bad, he AIN'T SEEN NOTHIN YET.
> 
> Larry Brown is going to go nuts with him. His lack of rebounding, defense, and decent physical shape is going to drive him up the wall. Brown isn't going to have the time to massage many more egos than Marbury's and Crawford's, so I'd bet my bottom dollar Curry immediately becomes his whipping boy.
> 
> *We all know how thin Curry's skin is. I'm guessing he'll probably turn to his twinkies and doughnuts and wind up this generation's Shawn Kemp without the spectacular career prior to the weight gain, alcohol abuse, and 88 illegitimate children.*
> 
> I've never been one to bite my tongue about Eddy, and I'm not going to here. He didn't fit the team concept or style of play. I honestly believe the Bulls will be a better team without him. Curry supporters LOVE pointing out his "dominating" 16 points per game last season, but what they fail to mention is the ridiculous amount of points he gives up by turning the ball over so much, failing to rebound, failing to pass, failing to play defense, and having to come out of the game after running the floor six times.
> 
> The benefits of someone new starting may not be evident when comparing season-long statistics between Eddy and his replacement, but they will be evident on the scoreboards.
> 
> Good riddance Eddy. You're now the enemy, and I know you're going to fail miserably. The fact that it's going to happen in New York makes it that much sweeter.


they are totaly different players and I find it in bad taste to make that comparison.


----------



## kukoc4ever

Mikedc said:


> Why? Because in non-financial terms, a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. It's easy to confuse lay people with throwing around the term $20M, but *a dollar today is worth a lot more than a dollar in 50 years.*



Yup, yup, yup.

Just more of the smear, IMO. 

Nice thing to report in the papers... that Curry turned down 400K per over 50 years... most will not realize its only worth 5.5 mil.


----------



## mgolding

SDBullsFan said:


> Good riddance Eddy. You're now the enemy, and I know you're going to fail miserably. The fact that it's going to happen in New York makes it that much sweeter.


I love the vengeful attitude. 

Not playing for chicago, then i hate you.


----------



## TripleDouble

Miamiballer2k5 said:


> they are totaly different players and I find it in bad taste to make that comparison.


More importantly, they are different people.


----------



## LoyalBull

mgolding said:


> I love the vengeful attitude.
> 
> Not playing for chicago, then i hate you.


Thing is... this is common for most teams/fans.

The chicago fan... (this board in particular) seems to be more split on the issue.

Many here seem relegated to cheering for all the ex-bulls.


----------



## mgolding

*Associated Press


DEERFIELD, Ill. -- The Bulls dealt center Eddy Curry to the New York Knicks on Monday, ending a contentious negotiation in which Chicago insisted the restricted free agent take a DNA test over a heart problem.

Chicago also sent veteran center Antonio Davis to the Knicks, who traded away forwards Tim Thomas, Michael Sweetney and Jermaine Jackson. Several draft choices also changed hands in the deal, according to an executive in the Eastern Conference who spoke on condition of anonymity.*


----------



## bullet

How can the Knicks send their pick???

according to this link  Jazz own NY's 1st rounder. Can NY trade it inside lottery only (since they have the SA pick)??

The only possibility is the SA pick.


----------



## kukoc4ever

Machinehead said:


> With regard to the reported annuity and the dollar today versus dollar for tomorrow argument
> 
> How do any of you know that this money was not indexed to a CPI (Consumer Price Index ?)
> 
> Can any of you confidently say that Eddy's $400K in 10 years doesn't buy him the same basket of goods that it can buy him today ?



Could be king. That's why I added the caveat to my number.

Assuming 3% inflation and a 7% rate (low, IMO) its 8.5M

Change the rate to 8 or 9 and its 7.2M and 6.3M.


----------



## DaBullz

Here's my take on it.

Pax absolutely painted himself into a corner.

BUT

It was by design. He knows he can't pay $10M contracts to Curry and Chandler, with teacher's pet Hinrich going to demand similar money. And Deng and Gordon, too. Teacher's pet? Wanna bet Hinrich gets a big deal faster than Chandler and faster than Skiles, too?

I think he said all the right things, and he probably meant some of them. He'd surely want Curry back, BUT for a long-term MLE sized deal.

Where this was botched is that he couldn't turn Curry into something that any of us can be really and truly excited about.

Yep, it does kinda suck getting rid of AD, too. I actually liked the guy, though he was massively overpaid, and surely not going to be a big contributor for long.

In the end, given a choice of Chandler and Curry, it had to be Chandler, all things considered. And I consider that Chandler's best games are MONSTER games that bury Curry's best efforts. We can only hope for more of them and more consistently.


----------



## ScottMay

SDBullsFan said:


> The New York media is going to absolutely SWALLOW him whole, and if he thought Scott Skiles was bad, he AIN'T SEEN NOTHIN YET.


I'm not sure about the whole "Eddy won't be able to hack NY" argument.

For starters, Chicago fans have proven to be vicious and unsupportive at the first sign of trouble. The way people jumped off Scott Skiles's bandwagon during his contract negotiations was a vivid example of this. New York fans can be demanding, but it rarely gets as personal as it's gotten with Eddy in Chicago (he seems to push the buttons of the lunch-bucket call-in show crowd for some reason).

The New York media is also much more even-handed than the Chicago media. There's a lot more competition here, and writers tend to develop their own stories rather than rely on being spoonfed by the team they cover. Again, it's hard for me to imagine the press here treating Eddy more shabbily than he was treated by the Chicago media.


----------



## TheLastTruePG

I'm sad to see Eddy leaving the bulls.. But we all seen it coming.. Eddy shouldn't be the enemy here.. If anyone of you were in his shoes, you'd probably not give into taking a DNA test.. 

I wish Eddy and his new team much success.. But when they play the Bulls.. I hope he doesn't come back to haunt us..


----------



## Ron Cey

SDBullsFan said:


> Hey guys, long-time reader, first timed responding, lifetime Bulls fan. LoyalBulls can vouch for me, we go back.
> 
> But anyways, a couple of posts irked me a bit, so please don't get too angry with me:
> 
> 
> 
> The Bulls had no choice but to be boxed into a horrible situation. What would have even been more horrible for the Bulls would be guaranteeing 11 million a year to a HEALTHY Eddy Curry. Also, it's not that easy to just buy him out. The money isn't so much the problem, the salary cap is. Just because you buy a player out doesn't mean he doesn't count under the cap. Hell, Eddie Robinson was taking up cap space this season.
> 
> 
> 
> Eddy Curry and Jamal Crawford have embodied EVERYTHING horrible about the post-Jordan era. We should all be rejoicing their leaving and hope we never EVER see them wearing Red and Black again.
> 
> On to my thoughts on the trade (posted on another MB):
> 
> It's finally over, thank goodness.
> 
> This was really the only course of action to take. No teams wanted anything to do with Eddy except the Knicks (big surprise there), and the fact that he would turn down 400,000 a year for 50 years just makes him a greedy *****. What good is 6/35 if you won't be alive to collect it?
> 
> In response to Tim Thomas and Antonio Davis being involved in the trade:
> 
> I really don't think that's true. This deal would essentially be Michael Sweetney and Jermaine Jackson for Eddy followed by Antonio Davis for Tim Thomas.
> 
> Tim Thomas makes approximately 75,000 more than Antonio Davis next season, meaning the two essentially nullify any financial contributions made by one another to the deal. Also, if Pax was to do a salary-dump for salary-dump trade, he wouldn't do it at a position where the Bulls are strong, SF, and it wouldn't involve the team-leader and captain.
> 
> I do hope Micahel Sweetney is part of the deal, they received at least one first round draft pick, and I'm still holding out hope Trevor Ariza is involved as well.
> 
> Eddy's career is officially over. The New York media is going to absolutely SWALLOW him whole, and if he thought Scott Skiles was bad, he AIN'T SEEN NOTHIN YET.
> 
> Larry Brown is going to go nuts with him. His lack of rebounding, defense, and decent physical shape is going to drive him up the wall. Brown isn't going to have the time to massage many more egos than Marbury's and Crawford's, so I'd bet my bottom dollar Curry immediately becomes his whipping boy.
> 
> We all know how thin Curry's skin is. I'm guessing he'll probably turn to his twinkies and doughnuts and wind up this generation's Shawn Kemp without the spectacular career prior to the weight gain, alcohol abuse, and 88 illegitimate children.
> 
> I've never been one to bite my tongue about Eddy, and I'm not going to here. He didn't fit the team concept or style of play. I honestly believe the Bulls will be a better team without him. Curry supporters LOVE pointing out his "dominating" 16 points per game last season, but what they fail to mention is the ridiculous amount of points he gives up by turning the ball over so much, failing to rebound, failing to pass, failing to play defense, and having to come out of the game after running the floor six times.
> 
> The benefits of someone new starting may not be evident when comparing season-long statistics between Eddy and his replacement, but they will be evident on the scoreboards.
> 
> Good riddance Eddy. You're now the enemy, and I know you're going to fail miserably. The fact that it's going to happen in New York makes it that much sweeter.


I agree with a lot of that. Not all of it (the Shawn Kemp stuff in particular as Eddy seems like a nice guy), but a lot of it. Nice debut. Stick around.


----------



## MitchMatch

What sh1tty trade. Couldn't even get Nate Robinson, Q Rich, JC, or anyone of that caliber...hell I would have taken Ariza. What a sh1tty trade.


----------



## mgolding

DaBullz said:


> It was by design. He knows he can't pay $10M contracts to Curry and Chandler, with teacher's pet Hinrich going to demand similar money. And Deng and Gordon, too. Teacher's pet? *Wanna bet Hinrich gets a big deal faster than Chandler and faster than Skiles, too?*


Wanna bet he deserves it more too. Instead of underachieving and not even taking the time to always be in shape or even learn the game of basketball like Eddy, Hinrich works hard at everything to do with the game.


----------



## Miamiballer2k5

The Knicks will be scary.


----------



## Machinehead

Hey I know its the venerable NY Times and all but on one hand they report Curry will sign a contract starting at $10M and then throw AD into the deal which would send the Knicks $25M 

TT and Sweets make $16M 

Gee maybe my math is a bit fuzzy but the deal with these players is 11% in nominal salary value out of the strike range

Knicks need to add a further $2.75M in salary which they don't have unless you also throw Channing Frye into the deal ( yeah right ) although Ariza, Lee and Jackie Butler could all be cobbled together to make it fit ( yeah right again ) 

Or the Knicks could have added Penny to TT and Sweets which will see us with a net payroll addition of $12M over what we were contemplating paying AD and Eddy this season ( yeah right ..again ) 

In short... none of what is mentioned fits and is not doable 

And this from the Times no less

Shame on them


----------



## The ROY

Why EXACTLY would pax or skiles want JC back? That makes no sense..

Now, not getting ARIZA pisses me off though..

I do like Chandler/Harrington/Songalia/Sweets in the front court though...

Sweets is gonna have to make up for Eddy's offensive input though...


----------



## katman17

NBC Chicago just reported that we will find all the details out tomorrow but the stated that Lee is the big name that has been rumored to be headed to Chicago


----------



## bullet

BTW - 1st rounders are have proved to become a 'nice convincer' for teams not to match offers for RFA (KMart , JJ). and it's nice to have them along cap space. someone like Nene comes to mind. again.


----------



## jnrjr79

DaBullz said:


> Here's my take on it.
> 
> Pax absolutely painted himself into a corner.
> 
> BUT
> 
> It was by design. He knows he can't pay $10M contracts to Curry and Chandler, with teacher's pet Hinrich going to demand similar money. And Deng and Gordon, too. Teacher's pet? Wanna bet Hinrich gets a big deal faster than Chandler and faster than Skiles, too?
> 
> I think he said all the right things, and he probably meant some of them. He'd surely want Curry back, BUT for a long-term MLE sized deal.
> 
> Where this was botched is that he couldn't turn Curry into something that any of us can be really and truly excited about.
> 
> Yep, it does kinda suck getting rid of AD, too. I actually liked the guy, though he was massively overpaid, and surely not going to be a big contributor for long.
> 
> In the end, given a choice of Chandler and Curry, it had to be Chandler, all things considered. And I consider that Chandler's best games are MONSTER games that bury Curry's best efforts. We can only hope for more of them and more consistently.



This is about how I'd feel as well. As much as I'd like to see it, it's inevitable we're going to lose some of what we would consider "core" pieces over the coming years. Knowing the types of players that Pax seems to like, Curry seemed more likely to go than others.

Also, the Krause fingerprint on this club is almost totally gone now. We're down to Chandler alone, who seems more like a Pax type of player.


----------



## SDBullsFan

> New York fans can be demanding, but it rarely gets as personal as it's gotten with Eddy in Chicago (he seems to push the buttons of the lunch-bucket call-in show crowd for some reason).


Tell Scott Layden that.

I agree with a lot about what you when comparing the media in the two markets, but you also have to keep in mind the enormous microscope Curry is going to be under that he wasn't over here in Chicago where he still had a large support group of family and friends to fall back on.

He's going to have to answer questions about every posession of every game while being pressured from Isaiah Thomas to produce when the media asks him the same questions 18 times a week about why he gave up so much (in their opinions and hindsight) for Eddy.

He's going to crack when he realizes he can't go to the bathroom without a mic and camera in his stall.


----------



## The ROY

katman17 said:


> NBC Chicago just reported that we will find all the details out tomorrow but the stated that Lee is the big name that has been rumored to be headed to Chicago


Since WHEN is Lee a big name?

We already know who got sent here, and it's not lee


----------



## mgolding

katman17 said:


> NBC Chicago just reported that we will find all the details out tomorrow but the stated that Lee is the big name that has been rumored to be headed to Chicago


Thats it for me, there are more conflicting reports coming out of media outlets than there are michael jackson pubic hairs between the teeth of children.

Ill find out tonight, you'll find out tomorrow morning. Lets just hope we did ok out of this whole mess.


----------



## Machinehead

If the times are reporting that Eddy is starting at $10M then AD is not going anywhere if Thomas and Sweetney are the main principals 

It would be Curry and Pike if Thomas and Sweetney are the main principals

If Eddy is starting at $5M ..in the rumoured $6 year $35K deal ( doubt it ) then AD is heading with him if Thomas and Sweetney are the main principals


----------



## kukoc4ever

jnrjr79 said:


> Also, the Krause fingerprint on this club is almost totally gone now. We're down to Chandler alone, who seems more like a Pax type of player.


There is no way in hell that Paxson would have traded Brand for Chandler, IMO.


----------



## SDBullsFan

MitchMatch said:


> What sh1tty trade. Couldn't even get Nate Robinson, Q Rich, JC, or anyone of that caliber...hell I would have taken Ariza. What a sh1tty trade.


Quentin Richardson and Jamal Crawford are GROSSLY UNDERPAID, and HORRIBLY underperform. They would immediately take this team out of any sort of contention if acquired in the trade while simultaneously ruining the salary cap space Pax worked so hard to clear. Nate Robinson is a 5'9" point guard on a team where the combined height of the 3-guard rotation is about 18'5". NOT ONLY THAT, but the complete factual terms of the deal have not been disclosed.


----------



## DaBullz

jnrjr79 said:


> This is about how I'd feel as well. As much as I'd like to see it, it's inevitable we're going to lose some of what we would consider "core" pieces over the coming years. Knowing the types of players that Pax seems to like, Curry seemed more likely to go than others.
> 
> Also, the Krause fingerprint on this club is almost totally gone now. We're down to Chandler alone, who seems more like a Pax type of player.


I should have added this to my post:

I _seriously_ doubt that it's pax's intention to use cap space to sign any big name free agents. His intent all along was to have the flexibility to sign THE GUYS HE DRAFTED to whatever deals it takes to keep them.

So it's not about 2006 at all. It's about 2007.


----------



## katman17

NBC Chicago said BIg Name was Lee - i didnt'. I didnt want to see Curry go and this is very tough to swallow. And there is nothing reported anywhere legit that says who we are getting back so I'd wait til tomorrow to say that we know who we got.


----------



## Machinehead

mgolding said:


> *Associated Press
> 
> 
> DEERFIELD, Ill. -- The Bulls dealt center Eddy Curry to the New York Knicks on Monday, ending a contentious negotiation in which Chicago insisted the restricted free agent take a DNA test over a heart problem.
> 
> Chicago also sent veteran center Antonio Davis to the Knicks, who traded away forwards Tim Thomas, Michael Sweetney and Jermaine Jackson. Several draft choices also changed hands in the deal, according to an executive in the Eastern Conference who spoke on condition of anonymity.*


Erroneous deal . Doesn't work . Therefore False... unless Eddy has agreed to a rogering up the blurt in a 6 year $35M deal


----------



## johnston797

SDBullsFan said:


> I agree with a lot about what you when comparing the media in the two markets, but you also have to keep in mind the enormous microscope Curry is going to be under that he wasn't over here in Chicago where he still had a large support group of family and friends to fall back on.


Curry got made out to be the absolute savior as an 18 year old for a franchise that had just gone 18-63 or something god-aweful like that.

After years of critisim, just when he was a lock to get paid, this life-threating ailment puts his whole career in risk.

Let's face it, the big question in NY will be if the kid is healthy. He is going to get a ton of leeway by the NYK fans.

This whole media thing is being blown way out of proportion. Curry has been in much tougher situations.

p.s. I think it's going to be good for Curry to get out of his hometown.


----------



## kukoc4ever

SDBullsFan said:


> I agree with a lot about what you when comparing the media in the two markets, but you also have to keep in mind the enormous microscope Curry is going to be under that he wasn't over here in Chicago where he still had a large support group of family and friends to fall back on.
> 
> He's going to have to answer questions about every posession of every game while being pressured from Isaiah Thomas to produce when the media asks him the same questions 18 times a week about why he gave up so much (in their opinions and hindsight) for Eddy.
> 
> He's going to crack when he realizes he can't go to the bathroom without a mic and camera in his stall.


Perhaps, but the expectations are much lower as well.

Here he was supposed to be the savior along with Chandler. He was the focal point.

In NYC he's a center that they got for a bundle of average players.

People said the same when Jamal left. It was not true... the media/fans seemed to focus more on STARbury than anyone.


----------



## jnrjr79

kukoc4ever said:


> There is no way in hell that Paxson would have traded Brand for Chandler, IMO.



Agreed.


----------



## bullet

Machinehead said:


> Hey I know its the venerable NY Times and all but on one hand they report Curry will sign a contract starting at $10M and then throw AD into the deal which would send the Knicks $25M
> 
> TT and Sweets make $16M
> 
> Gee maybe my math is a bit fuzzy but the deal with these players is 11% in nominal salary value out of the strike range
> 
> Knicks need to add a further $2.75M in salary which they don't have unless you also throw Channing Frye into the deal ( yeah right ) although Ariza, Lee and Jackie Butler could all be cobbled together to make it fit ( yeah right again )
> 
> Or the Knicks could have added Penny to TT and Sweets which will see us with a net payroll addition of $12M over what we were contemplating paying AD and Eddy this season ( yeah right ..again )
> 
> In short... none of what is mentioned fits and is not doable
> 
> And this from the Times no less
> 
> Shame on them


If Eddy's starting salary is 10 he only counts as 5 as a byc status player (50% of starting salary or his salary the year before - whatever is higher)


----------



## SDBullsFan

Ron Cey said:


> I agree with a lot of that. Not all of it (the Shawn Kemp stuff in particular as Eddy seems like a nice guy), but a lot of it. Nice debut. Stick around.


Appreciate it man, thanks a lot.



> they are totaly different players and I find it in bad taste to make that comparison.


Shawn Kemp and Eddy Curry are COMPLETELY different players, but are similar in their approaches to the game. Actually, I'd probably prefer Shawn Kemp's approach to it. He stayed in remarkable shape for a lot of years prior to letting himself go. Eddy, on the other hand, has been in decent (if you want to call his complete lack of game shape decent) condition for ONE season.


----------



## SDBullsFan

kukoc4ever said:


> Perhaps, but the expectations are much lower as well.
> 
> Here he was supposed to be the savior along with Chandler. He was the focal point.
> 
> In NYC he's a center that they got for a bundle of average players.
> 
> People said the same when Jamal left. It was not true... the media/fans seemed to focus more on STARbury than anyone.


No argument there.


----------



## jnrjr79

DaBullz said:


> I should have added this to my post:
> 
> I _seriously_ doubt that it's pax's intention to use cap space to sign any big name free agents. His intent all along was to have the flexibility to sign THE GUYS HE DRAFTED to whatever deals it takes to keep them.
> 
> So it's not about 2006 at all. It's about 2007.


I agree with this. It's upsetting because I want to win now. On the other hand, this is probably the better plan for long-term success. After so many losing seasons, however, it is hard to be patient. I do expect Pax to maybe pick up one semi-big name last year, but considering the players available, I doubt he's looking to totally transform the franchise next summer. IMO it would be a mistake to max out a player like Peja next summer.


----------



## DengNabbit

these two posts seem to fit together quite nicely....




ScottMay said:


> ...the Chicago media. There's a lot more competition here, and writers tend to develop their own stories rather than rely on being spoonfed by the team they cover.





katman17 said:


> NBC Chicago just reported that we will find all the details out tomorrow but the stated that Lee is the big name that has been rumored to be headed to Chicago


----------



## theanimal23

A question I posted earlier, what do you think TT, and the 2 future picks (1st rounders) could fetch us at the deadline?


----------



## SDBullsFan

theanimal23 said:


> A question I posted earlier, what do you think TT, and the 2 future picks (1st rounders) could fetch us at the deadline?


An extra peanut vender or Luvabull?


----------



## JRose5

DengNabbit said:


> these two posts seem to fit together quite nicely....


:laugh:


----------



## mizenkay

wnbc4 in nyc said "the knicks get their first true center since patrick ewing"

so at least one local newcaster in ny is setting the bar. pretty high too.

i wish eddy the best of luck and good health. i really do. but sorry i cannot cheer for him, he is a knick now. he's in for a wake-up call with larry brown, imo.

at the end of the day what won out was the team and not one player. pax did what he had to do to salvage the situation for the good of the team. it would only have gotten uglier and uglier. i heard the interview on the radio. he sounded more disappointed than angry to me. 


:sigh:


----------



## Machinehead

bullet said:


> If Eddy's starting salary is 10 he only counts as 5 as a byc status player (50% of starting salary or his salary the year before - whatever is higher)


That's to us not to them 

What the Knicks give us is still 64% of the nominal value of what we give them 

Deal still doesn't work on the reported facts


----------



## DengNabbit

mizenkay said:


> i heard the interview on the radio. he sounded more disappointed than angry to me.


Pax really shouldntve addressed media tonight ... at least with tapes rolling. No better way to say "we like our Tim Thomas and Michael Sweetney" as when you are frowning/crying


----------



## kukoc4ever

mizenkay said:


> wnbc4 in nyc said "the knicks get their first true center since patrick ewing"
> 
> so at least one local newcaster in ny is setting the bar. pretty high too.


What? That he's a true center? He is.




> i wish eddy the best of luck and good health. i really do. but sorry i cannot cheer for him, he is a knick now. he's in for a wake-up call with larry brown, imo.
> 
> at the end of the day what won out was the team and not one player. pax did what he had to do to salvage the situation for the good of the team. it would only have gotten uglier and uglier. i heard the interview on the radio. he sounded more disappointed than angry to me.
> 
> 
> :sigh:


I wonder what a diehard Bulls fan like you would write if it was Hinrich. 

I'd bet much it would be a different tune.


----------



## FanOfAll8472

I'm hoping the Bulls can receive both Sweetney and Ariza in this deal. Tim Thomas is actually very tempting to come off the bench and create mismatches (post-up smaller players) or spot up in the corner and stretch the defense.


----------



## yodurk

Assuming the deal is Curry/AD for Tim Thomas/Sweetney/2 draft picks, let me just say some of you are being WAY too harsh in calling it a bad trade. 

Let me remind you that last December, when it appeared Eddy was to be traded, I recall quite the cult following behind Mike Sweetney. Personally, I'm doubtful of his potential due to his Tractor Traylor like body, but he's at least the player Othella Harrington is, probably better. A very low-risk guy to have with an expiring rookie contract.

Tim Thomas gives us the exact same expiring max contract that AD had, only he's a 6'10 SF/PF who can spread the floor with his 3-point shooting. Remember how we so recently needed a big man who can shoot from deep? Well, he's just arrived. He'll be a serviceable 1-year fill in before we sign someone better next summer.

And don't tell me you're crying about AD leaving. I had him slated in for a whopping 10-12 min/game this season tops. Not to mention the fact that he'll probably get waived and re-sign with us for the vet minimum; even with the 30 day waiting period, he can still sign before opening day.

And as *bullet!* mentioned, the Bulls now have THREE draft picks going into next season. That could prove to be really valuable if we attempt a big-time trade. Or we could season some young talent in a winning environment. Time will tell, but it leaves us with options.

So if all of this comes to pass, all we lost was this big 6'11 center who's given us so many headaches through the years. And we still look mighty fine moving forward. This really does remind me of the JC trade, because much of what people are calling "garbage" could very well turn into solid acquisitions. And I for one am grateful that this DNA debate will be off the team's back once and for all, and considering Eddy's risks I think this was a pretty equal trade (I just hope that the draft picks we as favorable as I have in mind).


----------



## bullet

Machinehead said:


> That's to us not to them
> 
> What the Knicks give us is still 64% of the nominal value of what we give them
> 
> Deal still doesn't work on the reported facts


from what I understand - because we sign Eddy and then trade him , we sign him for 10 , but only get 5 back. That means Eddy(10)+AD(15)=20 mil.


----------



## johnston797

yodurk said:


> So if all of this comes to pass, all we lost was this big 6'11 center who's given us so many headaches through the years.


If people didn't expect some growing pains drafting Curry as an 18 year old, they were delustional.


----------



## Ron Cey

kukoc4ever said:


> I wonder what a diehard Bulls fan like you would write if it was Hinrich.
> 
> I'd bet much it would be a different tune.


Its all about the laundry, K4E. You know that. :yes:


----------



## narek

mizenkay said:


> at the end of the day what won out was the team and not one player. pax did what he had to do to salvage the situation for the good of the team. it would only have gotten uglier and uglier. i heard the interview on the radio. he sounded more disappointed than angry to me.
> 
> 
> :sigh:


On film, there was anger. And disappointment and a few other things.

I'm curious to read all the Chicago columnists on the deal, and every thing else involved. Except
for Mariotti.


----------



## kukoc4ever

Ron Cey said:


> Its all about the laundry, K4E. You know that. :yes:


I'm gonna need to do some laundry after crapping my pants from looking at this trade. 



---------------------------------------



I find it funny that the main guy we acquired is probably much fatter BMI wise than Curry.


----------



## DaBullz

Unfortunately, when you say "laundry" it makes me think of whether a guy wears his shirt tucked in or not.


----------



## Rashidi

Sweetney right now is a lot better than Harrington. He's a great rebounder, something Traylor is not, and he's a good scorer, something Traylor is not.

The only thing Curry has on him is 2 inches. He's better in the post offensively because of it, and he's a better shot blocker. He's half the rebounder Sweetney is though.

What some of you Bulls fans might not realize is that *Sweetney played mostly center for the Knicks last year.* Sweetney won't be anymore of a defensive liability than Curry was.

Chandler/Sweetney/Allen at Center
Harrington/Songaila/Thomas or Nocioni at Power Forward

Is that really any worse than Curry/Davis?


----------



## SecretAgentGuy

kukoc4ever said:


> I'm gonna need to do some laundry after crapping my pants from looking at this trade.
> 
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> 
> 
> 
> <b>I find it funny that the main guy we acquired is probably much fatter BMI wise than Curry.</b>


Probably is a bit of an understatement.


----------



## johnston797

narek said:


> On film, there was anger. And disappointment and a few other things.


To be visuabilly angry, Pax must really feel that he got the ol' one-two punch from Curry and IT. I can't think of another reason. He already said he understands why Curry feels the way he does about not needing the test.


----------



## johnston797

sp00k said:


> Probably is a bit of an understatement.


That guy has a lot of junk in his trunk. I hope it's jib.


----------



## DaBullz

johnston797 said:


> That guy has a lot of junk in his trunk. I hope it's jib.


His jersey can be used as an actual jib.


----------



## Rashidi

> What the Knicks give us is still 64% of the nominal value of what we give them


Draft picks have a nominal value in trades.


----------



## Ron Cey

DaBullz said:


> Unfortunately, when you say "laundry" it makes me think of whether a guy wears his shirt tucked in or not.


  Or can keep his shorts up? 

Nah, I just root team. The players are tools of the team. Once they leave, they're gone. And thats the end of it as far as I'm concerned. They don't carry any more significance to me than any other player I might like or dislike on another team.

Even if it were (shudder to think) my boy Luol.

I hope Eddy fails, but not because I don't like Eddy Curry as a person. I hope he fails because he's a Knick.


----------



## kukoc4ever

I also find it funny that the two guys I'm glad the Bulls didn't sign to MAX deals in hindsight were AD and Tim Thomas.

And we just traded AD for Tim Thomas.


----------



## yodurk

johnston797 said:


> If people didn't expect some growing pains drafting Curry as an 18 year old, they were delustional.


I did, as did many others I'm sure. But in the 4 years he spent on this team, I'd say he had a combined 4 good months. I expected more than that by this point; the headaches still haven't stopped. And finally when we think he's coming around, turns out he's been taking diet pills; which may (or may not) have been at the root of this whole mess. We may not know for a very long time.

Bottomline here, we got a decent enough package to salvage the situation, IMO. Not a groundbreaking trade. I don't think Pax believes this to be the case. But we filled some needs and should maintain our hold on a playoff spot next season. And a huge amount of space under the cap next summer to further strengthen the team (Sorry, I know you're all sick of hearing that, but $25M is 2-3 GOOD players).


----------



## futuristxen

So after it was all said and done, the Krause, post-jordan era netted us the New York Knicks.

I'm so glad we broke up Jordan, Pippen, PJax, and Rodman, so we could get a chance at Brand, Artest, Curry, Crawford, Fizer, JayWill and Chandler. YES!!!!


----------



## kukoc4ever

*Sam Smith just said that the Knicks are going to cut Antonio Davis right away and the Bulls will get him back (ESPN Radio)*

Claimed that the wire reports are not correct.


----------



## Machinehead

bullet said:


> from what I understand - because we sign Eddy and then trade him , we sign him for 10 , but only get 5 back. That means Eddy(10)+AD(15)=20 mil.



no ..we cop it back at full value 

its the other way around ..he only counts at $5M for what we receive back in and what we need to match up for


----------



## Jesus Shuttlesworth

kukoc4ever said:


> *Sam Smith just said that the Knicks are going to cut Davis right away and the Bulls will get him back (ESPN Radio)*



There's a period of time we have to respect right?
And if this is some sort of pre-arrangement, isn't it illegal?


----------



## bullet

Without taking a side here is Sweets stats per Eddy's minutes:

Eddy ---------- Sweets
28.7 mpg-------- 19.6
16.1 ppg-------- 12.3 ppem (points per eddy's 28.7 minutes)
0.538 fg%-------- 0.531
0.72 ft%--------- 0.749
5.4 rpg--------- 7.9 rpem
0.6 apg--------- 0.9 apem
0.33 spg-------- 0.51 spem
0.92 bpg-------- 0.53 bpem
2.59 topg------- 2.05 topem
*13.94 Eff-------- 15.04 eff' pem*

Sweets is higher on the basic eff nba ranking.


+/- comparison from 82games:

*Sweets is *+2.8* (net points per 100 possessions) on a losing team - Link! 

*Eddy is *-7* on a winning team - link! 

They both like to eat!

Just the plain stats , I wonder what Dans rating system would say???


----------



## bullsville

kukoc4ever said:


> *Sam Smith just said that the Knicks are going to cut Antonio Davis right away and the Bulls will get him back (ESPN Radio)*
> 
> Claimed that the wire reports are not correct.


I claimed that about an hour ago, and I'm not a respected writer for one of the nation's largest newspapers.

Oh wait...


----------



## Aesop

kukoc4ever said:


> *Sam Smith just said that the Knicks are going to cut Antonio Davis right away and the Bulls will get him back (ESPN Radio)*
> 
> Claimed that the wire reports are not correct.


At PF and C the Knicks have Curry, Taylor, Rose, James, Frye, and Lee. Certainly they have no use in a 7th big man.


----------



## narek

Ron Cey said:


> Or can keep his shorts up?
> 
> Nah, I just root team. The players are tools of the team. Once they leave, they're gone. And thats the end of it as far as I'm concerned. They don't carry any more significance to me than any other player I might like or dislike on another team.
> 
> Even if it were (shudder to think) my boy Luol.


Luol is the budding superstar of this team! He'll never leave.


----------



## ScottMay

yodurk said:


> But we filled some needs and should maintain our hold on a playoff spot next season.


"Should" is a bit of a reach, imo. That underestimates the impact Curry had for us and overestimates how smoothly the team is going to handle all this (not to mention the arrival of a malcontent like Thomas, who has been Jalen Rose-like in his disruptiveness at times in his career).



> And a huge amount of space under the cap next summer to further strengthen the team (Sorry, I know you're all sick of hearing that, but $25M is 2-3 GOOD players).


I disagree on two fronts -- one, that there are even 2-3 players worth having next year, or at least ATTAINABLE players who don't play positions we've already got well covered. Second, someone said tonight (hell, it may have been you) that we weren't clearing space for 06. We're clearing space for Hinrich, Deng, and Gordon, and we aren't going to add appreciable outside salary unless comparable salary is shipped elsewhere or comes off the books.

Reinsdorf has said he will pay for a winner. But there's a catch: what he really meant was "I'll pay for a winner as long as we can still clear 30-40 million in operating profit."


----------



## yodurk

kukoc4ever said:


> *Sam Smith just said that the Knicks are going to cut Antonio Davis right away and the Bulls will get him back (ESPN Radio)*
> 
> Claimed that the wire reports are not correct.


Rock on, which means we only lost 1 piece of the team, while adding a 6'10 three-point shooter and a decent 6'8 post man, along with 2 draft picks. All for a guy with an uninsured contract and a questionable ticker. Fair enough trade for my liking.


----------



## bullet

Machinehead said:


> no ..we cop it back at full value
> 
> its the other way around ..*he only counts at $5M for what we receive back * in and what we need to match up for


so we only get back 20 mil , thats what I meant , or am I still on the wrong page here???


----------



## DengNabbit

futuristxen said:


> So after it was all said and done, the Krause, post-jordan era netted us the New York Knicks.
> 
> I'm so glad we broke up Jordan, Pippen, PJax, and Rodman, so we could get a chance at Brand, Artest, Curry, Crawford, Fizer, JayWill and Chandler. YES!!!!


 i'm feeling that yearly frustration of incoming Knick rejects too. but it'll wear off in a few months when you remember what kind of D this team plays.

a lot of teams would switch with us, even considering the missteps you've pointed out. we're not the only ones making some wrong moves.



also: Pip, his health, and our dynasty was over that next year. Pip has said he wishes he had taken time off instead of playing weakly for Houston.


----------



## bullsville

I've been saying for months that I thought Eddy would be this summer's Jamal.

I was even more correct that I thought, since they both wound up traded to the Knicks for "garbage".

I can't wait to see how good this year's Bulls are- the Jamalites were way off about last season, I wonder how many Eddyites will be around next summer to admit they were wrong when the Bulls win 50 games this season?


----------



## ScottMay

bullet said:


> Without taking a side here is Sweets stats per Eddy's minutes:
> 
> Eddy ---------- Sweets
> 28.7 mpg-------- 19.6
> 16.1 ppg-------- 12.3 ppem (points per eddy's 28.7 minutes)
> 0.538 fg%-------- 0.531
> 0.72 ft%--------- 0.749
> 5.4 rpg--------- 7.9 rpem
> 0.6 apg--------- 0.9 apem
> 0.33 spg-------- 0.51 spem
> 0.92 bpg-------- 0.53 bpem
> 2.59 topg------- 2.05 topem
> *13.94 Eff-------- 15.04 eff' pem*
> 
> Sweets is higher on the basic eff nba ranking.
> 
> 
> +/- comparison from 82games:
> 
> *Sweets is *+2.8* (net points per 100 possessions) on a losing team - Link!
> 
> *Eddy is *-7* on a winning team - link!
> 
> They both like to eat!
> 
> Just the plain stats , I wonder what Dans rating system would say???


I thought you might want to add this to your plain stats -- Sweetney averaged 4.2 fouls per 28.7 minutes, playing against second stringers in a lot of meaningless games.

Maybe Skiles is the one getting an Excedrin headache right now, not Larry Brown.


----------



## kukoc4ever

bullsville said:


> Eddyites will be around next summer to admit they were wrong when the Bulls win 50 games this season?


So, you just predicted a 50 win season this year?


----------



## johnston797

yodurk said:


> (Sorry, I know you're all sick of hearing that, but $25M is 2-3 GOOD players).


Sorry, but I would prefer Curry on the QO which leaves us with $25M and Bird rights on ESPN's #3 FA next summer.


----------



## Machinehead

Rashidi said:


> Draft picks have a nominal value in trades.


Only when their drafted

The rights to those picks don't


----------



## Machinehead

bullet said:


> so we only get back 20 mil , thats what I meant , or am I still on the wrong page here???



One more time ..

New York receives $25M of value in ( Curry is $10M to them and AD $15M with his trade kicker ) 

New York gives out $16M in Thomas and Sweets 

Chicago sends out $20M ( Curry at $5M and AD at $15M ) 

Chicago receives $16M 

The deal is not compliant from New York's in and out perpective unless Eddy got bollocked on a 6 year $35M deal starting at $5M 

The issue is is that the AP are reporting EC at $35M for 6 which starts him at $5M whilst the Times reports him starting at $10M 

Capiche ?


----------



## bullsville

kukoc4ever said:


> So, you just predicted a 50 win season this year?


Actually, I'm only "predicting" 47, the same as last season.

But 50 wouldn't surprise me.


----------



## Babble-On

I'm sad to see Eddy go, hoped he'd somehow stay, and I fear(and for Eddy's sake hope) that Pax erred on the side of caution. That said, I can also see how the Bulls would want to have all the information possible about Eddy's heart. I think that in the short term, this will hurt the Bulls, but in the long term, what Eddy provided is more than replaceable. I'm not of the opinion that Eddy was the key to the team's eventual goal of contending for a title, or that he'd be a main option on a contending team(I think maybe a 3rd or 4th option is more realistic).


----------



## thebizkit69u

I just found out about this on the Chicago Cubs Board. OMFG i cannot believe this happened. I feel like my puppy just got run over. This is a reall Dissapointment as a bulls fan and it also makes me sick. Curry dint get the multi million dollar deal he wanted so he cry's to his best friend and goes to NY. This is the kid who loved chicago who has the freaking Chicago Skyline tattoed on his arm!! How could Pax have let this happen.!!!! Iam just babling right now but its just such a shock and its so damn dissapointing. I canot imagine this trade going down without the Bulls getting something good in return, Tim Thomas is not a Skiles guy and will obviously play a small role. 

OMG if Curry lives up to his potential then NY will kick our butts for the next 10 years.


----------



## YearofDaBulls

ABC news just reported the same deal which was mentioned earlier so I think that might be it. Oh well.


----------



## ScottMay

bullsville said:


> Actually, I'm only "predicting" 47, the same as last season.
> 
> But 50 wouldn't surprise me.


Only 50?

I mean, based on the dozens of hours you've spent enumerating the ways in which Eddy was flawed as a basketball player and a human being and harmful to the Bulls as a team, I'd think his absence alone would be worth, I don't know, ten wins at a minimum? 

And that's not even accounting for the quality players we're getting in return for Eddy. Tim Thomas? Mike Sweetney? I mean, sure, they didn't get the job done for a horrible lottery squad, but we all know that if Isiah thinks it's wrong, it must be right.

50 wins? Don't hold back. I'm putting you down for 60.


----------



## SecretAgentGuy

Just curious, and I'm sure it's probably going to happen, but this whole deal is dependant on Eddy passing NY's physical, isn't it? Given this strange sequence of events, Curry failing his physical wouldn't seem that out of place.


----------



## Frankensteiner

sp00k said:


> Just curious, and I'm sure it's probably going to happen, but this whole deal is dependant on Eddy passing NY's physical, isn't it? Given this strange sequence of events, Curry failing his physical wouldn't seem that out of place.


ScottMay, DaBullz, and johnston already passed him. He's good to go.


----------



## Showtyme

As a busy student and as I've been moving around the country, I haven't been in a steady relationship for years.

Yet somehow, I feel like I've been dumped.


----------



## lgtwins

sp00k said:


> Just curious, and I'm sure it's probably going to happen, but this whole deal is dependant on Eddy passing NY's physical, isn't it? Given this strange sequence of events, Curry failing his physical wouldn't seem that out of place.


According to Scottmay, the chance of what you mention happening is nill. Nadah.


----------



## johnston797

Well, the Chicago Trib articles are up.

Sam Smith uses the term "morally reprehensible".

Adj.	1.	vile - morally reprehensible; "would do something as despicable as murder"; "ugly crimes"; "the vile development of slavery appalled them"

It will be fun to watch how the NY media and the Chicago media spin this differentely.


----------



## ScottMay

Frankensteiner said:


> ScottMay, DaBullz, and johnston already passed him. He's good to go.


Dr. David Cannom, Dr. Mark Estes, the Bulls' team doctors, the Hawks' team doctors, and the medical community at large (in relation to how Eddy's condition is normally diagnosed and treated) have given Eddy a clean bill of health.


----------



## DaBullz

Frankensteiner said:


> ScottMay, DaBullz, and johnston already passed him. He's good to go.


I didn't pass curry. I've posted several times that I think his career is over.


----------



## johnston797

The Knicks doctors have defintely read Cannom and Maron's reports and have cleared Curry. To the tune of $60M.

Or maybe they are just part of the conspiracy against PaxDorf.


----------



## ScottMay

lgtwins said:


> According to Scottmay, the chance of what you mention happening is nill. Nadah.


According to Dr. David Cannom, Dr. Mark Estes, the Bulls' team doctors, the Hawks' team doctors, and the medical community at large (in relation to how Eddy's condition is normally diagnosed and treated), Eddy will pass his physical so long as the Knicks don't insist on an unprecedented request that is is illegal in most states and will be illegal nationwide in the near future.


----------



## Frankensteiner

From the newest Sam Smith article:



> The Bulls are likely to be the main player in free agency next summer with more than $20 million in available salary-cap room. This should enable them to recoup quickly from the loss of Curry, if it turns out to be costly.
> 
> Though it seems likely Ben Wallace and Peja Stojakovic will re-sign with their teams, they will be free agents. Other free agents after this season include Denver's Nene, whom the Bulls have liked, Vladimir Radmanovic, Al Harrington, James Posey, Matt Harpring, Lorenzen Wright, Bobby Jackson, Mike Dunleavy, Nazr Mohammed and Caron Butler.


So I was thinking, can we just carry over our cap space for 2007? I probably wouldn't spend good money on any of these players (MAYBE Al Harrington). 

We should really just focus on building a team in the Detroit Pistons mold. Bulls roster is already very similar, the only need is to find that 4/5 player in the Rasheed Wallace mode.


----------



## DaBullz

Frankensteiner said:


> From the newest Sam Smith article:
> 
> 
> 
> So I was thinking, can we just carry over our cap space for 2007? I probably wouldn't spend good money on any of these players (MAYBE Al Harrington).
> 
> We should really just focus on building a team in the Detroit Pistons mold. Bulls roster is already very similar, the only need is to find that 4/5 player in the Rasheed Wallace mode.


The bulls would have been over the cap in 2007, but they just gained about $10M in cap space by trading Curry for expiring contracts.


----------



## johnston797

> From the newest Sam Smith article:
> 
> Curry probably *will have a good season for the Knicks*, who apparently are not ordering much further heart or any DNA testing.


So I guess Sam Smith thinks Curry is healthy, too.


----------



## bullsville

ScottMay said:


> Only 50?
> 
> I mean, based on the dozens of hours you've spent enumerating the ways in which Eddy was flawed as a basketball player and a human being and harmful to the Bulls as a team, I'd think his absence alone would be worth, I don't know, ten wins at a minimum?
> 
> And that's not even accounting for the quality players we're getting in return for Eddy. Tim Thomas? Mike Sweetney? I mean, sure, they didn't get the job done for a horrible lottery squad, but we all know that if Isiah thinks it's wrong, it must be right.
> 
> 50 wins? Don't hold back. I'm putting you down for 60.


While I appreciate some good sarcasm as much as the next guy, what's your prediction? I'm on the record at 47-50, care to go on the record and then let the chips fall where they may?

Othella didn't get the job done for a horrible lottery squad either, but he sure helped the Bulls in his role. I expect Sweetney and Thomas may do the same.

Like I said since before the summer even arrived, the Eddy situation would wind up just like the Jamal situation. In the end, they wound up being even more similar than I had imagined.

And major props on the "we all know that if Isiah thinks it's wrong, it must be right" statement. Truer words have never been spoken.


----------



## johnston797

Frankensteiner said:


> So I was thinking, can we just carry over our cap space for 2007?


Sure, but Hinrich is going to need a raise. As is Nocioni (maybe). Plus that's 2 more raises for Chandler, Gordon, Deng and Duhon. Plus our 2007 draft pick.

So we will lose a ton of it if we try and carry it over.

p.s. You're welcome. BTW, I consider myself more of a cap docter than a medical docter, truth be told.


----------



## bullsville

ScottMay said:


> Dr. David Cannom, Dr. Mark Estes, the Bulls' team doctors, *the Hawks' team doctors*, and the medical community at large (in relation to how Eddy's condition is normally diagnosed and treated) have given Eddy a clean bill of health.


Come on now, you have been a rock of solid medical information throughout the summer, don't start making stuff up now.

Eddy never even took a physical in ATL, how could the Hawks' doctors have possibly given Eddy a clean bill of health?

They couldn't have done it, and they didn't do it.

You have made your points all summer and done a great job of it, don't blow your credibility making false statements, please.


----------



## spongyfungy

Well I just got back. Sorry I'm late for the party. What will Sam Smith write about now?


----------



## SecretAgentGuy

Frankensteiner said:


> From the newest Sam Smith article:
> 
> 
> 
> So I was thinking, can we just carry over our cap space for 2007? I probably wouldn't spend good money on any of these players (MAYBE Al Harrington).
> 
> We should really just focus on building a team in the Detroit Pistons mold. Bulls roster is already very similar, the only need is to find that 4/5 player in the Rasheed Wallace mode.


I had the same question but I think it's highly unlikely that we keep that money until 2007. For one, Kirk will need to be re-upped and we will likely have several draft picks that we will ink next summer. If we can turn that $20 million into Nene and Harrington I'd be content. A big man rotation that consists of Tyson/Nene/Harrington/Songaila/Sweets isn't too bad. 

I'm also looking to see if Pax turns a deal involving Ben, Noc and draft picks into an All Star level guard. Something on the Corey Maggette level maybe?


----------



## ScottMay

bullsville said:


> Come on now, you have been a rock of solid medical information throughout the summer, don't start making stuff up now.
> 
> Eddy never even took a physical in ATL, how could the Hawks' doctors have possibly given Eddy a clean bill of health?
> 
> They couldn't have done it, and they didn't do it.
> 
> You have made your points all summer and done a great job of it, don't blow your credibility making false statements, please.





> When the Hawks looked into signing Curry in July, they were given dire warnings by the Bulls. But the doctor the Hawks asked to look at Curry's records gave him a clean bill of health.


http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=fatchancecurrywillgetthe&prov=tsn&type=lgns


----------



## truebluefan

SDBullsFan said:


> Hey guys, long-time reader, first timed responding, lifetime Bulls fan. LoyalBulls can vouch for me, we go back.
> 
> But anyways, a couple of posts irked me a bit, so please don't get too angry with me:
> 
> 
> 
> The Bulls had no choice but to be boxed into a horrible situation. What would have even been more horrible for the Bulls would be guaranteeing 11 million a year to a HEALTHY Eddy Curry. Also, it's not that easy to just buy him out. The money isn't so much the problem, the salary cap is. Just because you buy a player out doesn't mean he doesn't count under the cap. Hell, Eddie Robinson was taking up cap space this season.
> 
> 
> 
> Eddy Curry and Jamal Crawford have embodied EVERYTHING horrible about the post-Jordan era. We should all be rejoicing their leaving and hope we never EVER see them wearing Red and Black again.
> 
> On to my thoughts on the trade (posted on another MB):
> 
> It's finally over, thank goodness.
> 
> This was really the only course of action to take. No teams wanted anything to do with Eddy except the Knicks (big surprise there), and the fact that he would turn down 400,000 a year for 50 years just makes him a greedy *****. What good is 6/35 if you won't be alive to collect it?
> 
> In response to Tim Thomas and Antonio Davis being involved in the trade:
> 
> I really don't think that's true. This deal would essentially be Michael Sweetney and Jermaine Jackson for Eddy followed by Antonio Davis for Tim Thomas.
> 
> Tim Thomas makes approximately 75,000 more than Antonio Davis next season, meaning the two essentially nullify any financial contributions made by one another to the deal. Also, if Pax was to do a salary-dump for salary-dump trade, he wouldn't do it at a position where the Bulls are strong, SF, and it wouldn't involve the team-leader and captain.
> 
> I do hope Micahel Sweetney is part of the deal, they received at least one first round draft pick, and I'm still holding out hope Trevor Ariza is involved as well.
> 
> Eddy's career is officially over. The New York media is going to absolutely SWALLOW him whole, and if he thought Scott Skiles was bad, he AIN'T SEEN NOTHIN YET.
> 
> Larry Brown is going to go nuts with him. His lack of rebounding, defense, and decent physical shape is going to drive him up the wall. Brown isn't going to have the time to massage many more egos than Marbury's and Crawford's, so I'd bet my bottom dollar Curry immediately becomes his whipping boy.
> 
> We all know how thin Curry's skin is. I'm guessing he'll probably turn to his twinkies and doughnuts and wind up this generation's Shawn Kemp without the spectacular career prior to the weight gain, alcohol abuse, and 88 illegitimate children.
> 
> I've never been one to bite my tongue about Eddy, and I'm not going to here. He didn't fit the team concept or style of play. I honestly believe the Bulls will be a better team without him. Curry supporters LOVE pointing out his "dominating" 16 points per game last season, but what they fail to mention is the ridiculous amount of points he gives up by turning the ball over so much, failing to rebound, failing to pass, failing to play defense, and having to come out of the game after running the floor six times.
> 
> The benefits of someone new starting may not be evident when comparing season-long statistics between Eddy and his replacement, but they will be evident on the scoreboards.
> 
> Good riddance Eddy. You're now the enemy, and I know you're going to fail miserably. The fact that it's going to happen in New York makes it that much sweeter.



Welcome to the site. Always good to have alumn from Scout.


----------



## bullsville

"But *the doctor the Hawks asked to look at Curry's records* gave him a clean bill of health."

Sorry but I don't see anything there about the "Hawks' team doctors".

That kind of stretch would lead me to say that Maron is the "Bulls' team doctor", when we all know he isn't.


----------



## SecretAgentGuy

DaBullz said:


> The bulls would have been over the cap in 2007, but they just gained about $10M in cap space by trading Curry for expiring contracts.


DaBullz, does this number also take into account Kirk's probable deal and signing our draft picks (at least 2 first rounders)?


----------



## DaBullz

sp00k said:


> DaBullz, does this number also take into account Kirk's probable deal and signing our draft picks (at least 2 first rounders)?


Yes.

The 1st rounders make max ~$3M, depending on how close to 1st in the draft they are picked.

We're $24M under the cap in 2006. Kirk and the 2 1st picks would leave us $10M.


----------



## ScottMay

bullsville said:


> "But *the doctor the Hawks asked to look at Curry's records* gave him a clean bill of health."
> 
> Sorry but I don't see anything there about the "Hawks' team doctors".
> 
> That kind of stretch would lead me to say that Maron is the "Bulls' team doctor", when we all know he isn't.


You're right . . . the Hawks would have given this job to a cardiologist with far more knowledge of the situation than the orthopedists and internists who invariably comprise their medical staff.

So just replace "Hawks' team doctors" with "a cardiologist hired by the Hawks' medical staff to interpret and explain Eddy's results to them".

Good catch.


----------



## jbulls

I'm going to need time to process this whole thing. But it certainly doesn't feel too good right now.

It seems to me that Sweetney is to the basketball stat guys what Kevin Youkilis is to the Moneyball/Beane crowd in baseball. I'll be curious to see how he pans out w/ some more minutes. If Tyson really steps up at the 5 we can have some pretty fun match up options offensively with Sweetney inside and Songaila outside at the 4.

I have no clue what to expect from Tim Thomas. Everyone loved him a few years ago, he's generally regarded as a bum now. Rich man's Eddie Robinson with a little more range on the j? Can he defend at all?

As for the other parts...I hope the first rounder isn't lottery protected. The two second rounders are nice and can give us a little more leverage in trades I suppose. Would've been nice to get Ariza, but I don't see the value in David Lee, he seems very redundant on this team. Anyone think we'll actually hold onto Jackson?

All in all, a fairly sad day. I've always liked Curry as a person and if he stays healthy I think he'll be an all star. We're goint to need a big, big year from Deng or Gordon to be in the 45-50 win bracket.

j

(btw, if larry brown can get that knicks team to play even passable defense i'll believe all the hype about his coaching genius)


----------



## Chris Bosh #4

Well you guys did get a very good young player in Trevor Ariza who is similiar to Andre Igoudala/Tayshaun Prince(Igoudala dunking, Tayshaun defense).


----------



## SecretAgentGuy

Chris Bosh #4 said:


> Well you guys did get a very good young player in Trevor Ariza who is similiar to Andre Igoudala/Tayshaun Prince(Igoudala dunking, Tayshaun defense).


huh?


----------



## truebluefan

Nice thread as usual guys. 

I had school this evening and I missed all of the excitment. Didnt we go through this just last summer? 

AD coming back to the Bulls is a plus and as someone brought out earlier, he should be here not long after the season starts. 

Last November many of us were talking about trading Curry for Sweetney and now that its done the board is split. 

I will miss Eddy, but I am a Bulls fan first. I will continue to follow his career. 

Also I agree with Dabullz(I think he said this) that this trade was to clear camp space for 2007. I had thought all along it was for next summer. We could still add a piece but thats about it. We need the money to sign our own young players.


----------



## bullsville

ScottMay said:


> You're right . . . the Hawks would have given this job to a cardiologist with far more knowledge of the situation than the orthopedists and internists who invariably comprise their medical staff.
> 
> So just replace "Hawks' team doctors" with "a cardiologist hired by the Hawks' medical staff to interpret and explain Eddy's results to them".
> 
> Good catch.


Cool, I can live with that.

And why don't NBA teams have a cardiologist on staff nowadays? The Bulls' staff is like 15 doctors, what does one more cost? And I'm sure they have at least one or two decent cardiologists at Rush?


----------



## Chicago N VA

Wow..... I guess I never really thought it would come down to this....!!!!!!!

I really liked Eddy and I wish him well.

I guess this goes along with being from and a fan of Chicago teams... where I am left with just scratching my head and wondering what the heck just happened?


----------



## BealeFarange

Wow. Two straight summers of having my favorite player traded...I'm not going to bother arguing or bickering or anything. I'm just sad because I'm a fan and because I'm allowed to like sports and teams and players for whatever reason I damn well please...and Eddy Curry no longer being a Bull saddens me. Agree or disagree, that's fine. On the flipside, I'm happy to see Eddy and Jamal united again...maybe the promise of the 2002/3 season's end can finally come to pass? I sure as hell hope so. New York or not. 

I don't envy John Paxson's position (though the annuity doesn't impress me at all given that we've known for weeks about millions in guaranteed money...we didn't know until today that it was an annuity) and I wish he agreed with me that Eddy was worth more of a risk. Even allowing him to play for the QO seems like a worthwhile investment given that Eddy certainly had the potential to turn into a very good player and nothin was written in stone about our not being able to resign him after the season. 

I have faith that the Bulls and Skiles and Pax will be a good team and, most importantly, a fun team to watch. I would be much happier, though, sharing the success with Eddy Curry. Because I'm a fan. And that's my choice. 

Oh, and a big "screw you" to anyone who seriously believes that hoping Eddy "fails" is admirable in any way. For any reason. Seriously. I hope you stub your toe on the way to bed or something tonight. 

And I now retire to my cave of 90 hour work weeks. I miss this board. And I'll miss Eddy Curry. Let's hope we make the playoffs...go Bulls!


----------



## chifaninca

BealeFarange said:


> Wow. Two straight summers of having my favorite player traded...I'm not going to bother arguing or bickering or anything. I'm just sad because I'm a fan and because I'm allowed to like sports and teams and players for whatever reason I damn well please...and Eddy Curry no longer being a Bull saddens me. Agree or disagree, that's fine. On the flipside, I'm happy to see Eddy and Jamal united again...maybe the promise of the 2002/3 season's end can finally come to pass? I sure as hell hope so. New York or not.
> 
> I don't envy John Paxson's position (though the annuity doesn't impress me at all given that we've known for weeks about millions in guaranteed money...we didn't know until today that it was an annuity) and I wish he agreed with me that Eddy was worth more of a risk. Even allowing him to play for the QO seems like a worthwhile investment given that Eddy certainly had the potential to turn into a very good player and nothin was written in stone about our not being able to resign him after the season.
> 
> I have faith that the Bulls and Skiles and Pax will be a good team and, most importantly, a fun team to watch. I would be much happier, though, sharing the success with Eddy Curry. Because I'm a fan. And that's my choice.
> 
> Oh, and a big "screw you" to anyone who seriously believes that hoping Eddy "fails" is admirable in any way. For any reason. Seriously. I hope you stub your toe on the way to bed or something tonight.
> 
> And I now retire to my cave of 90 hour work weeks. I miss this board. And I'll miss Eddy Curry. Let's hope we make the playoffs...go Bulls!



Thanks Beale,

I have reading in stunned disbelief, frustration, sadness and trying to remain calm as I try to write how I feel wihtout letting emotions overtake me.

Great post and you wrote exactly what I was trying to.

Go Bulls!


----------



## cima

Wow I work all day and this is the kind of bull**** I come home to? **** you Pax.


----------



## DaFuture

this is Bullcrap. I hate Jon paxson. I havent posted as much as I used to lately, but this bites, we will fail to win 40 games this season.


----------



## cima

Ugh this is going to be just like trading Brand, Miller, and Artest away...a HUGE REGRET!


----------



## Squirrel

yuck. 

I wonder if a team made up of the players the Bulls have traded away could beat the current one.


----------



## cima

PG- Crawford
SG- Rose
SF- Artest
PF- Brand
C- Miller
6th- Marshall
7th- Curry

Damn straight they could.


----------



## Salvaged Ship

If AD is coming back to the Bulls I think this is an awful trade......for the Knicks.

The Knicks just gave up quite a bit of cap space, Thomas, Sweetney, and picks to have the opportunity to pay big guaranteed bucks to a one dimensional player who cannot get insurance and possibly could drop dead or have to retire because heart issues which have yet to be resolved. This will hang over Curry's entire career, if he does in fact play for a long time. Isiah is a moron in my opinion.

People constanlty overrate Curry's contributions to the team just because he is 7 feet and can score in the post. This isn't the NBA Live video game where Curry domintates and dunks over everyone. The rest of his game is lousy, his effort, energy, and heart (not his actual heart) are almost always a problem. Skiles wasn't putting him on the court at the end of games because when he needed defense, rebounds, basketball IQ then Curry was a huge liability. 

If Curry is having a tough time in NY, not producing, in Brown's doghouse, what if he just says he is having chest pains and needs to sit? The Knicks are stuck.

So we gave up a one dimensional player who played lousy D, couldn't rebound, couldn't pass ,was on the bench most 4th quarters, couldn't get insurance, struggled to stay fit, for a few pretty serviceable players, draft picks, and loads of cap space in the near future. We also don't have that cloud over our heads of if this might be the game Curry drops to the court from heart failure. Or the soap opera of him sitting on the bench becuase he wouldn't take the DNA test.

Look at it for what it is people. Stop looking at Curry's "potential" just because he has a center's body and is young. His game and his heart do not match his body even in perfect health, and I don't believe they ever will.

I wish Curry the best of luck. In my opinion, Paxson is a genius and Isiah is a moron. Pax just pulled of a miracle of a trade if you look at the circumstances and what Curry really is as a player.


----------



## SALO

Salvaged Ship said:


> If AD is coming back to the Bulls I think this is an awful trade......for the Knicks.


I think the trade works out well for both teams. The Knicks got exactly what they wanted. Eddy will do well there.

On the Bulls side, I hated the trade at first, but only because I was expecting to get one of Ariza / Lee in the deal. But if you analyze what we got for Curry compared to previous "big trades" you could make the argument Paxson made a GREAT trade considering the circumstances. Consider this...

* Baron Davis = Speedy Claxton and Dale Davis

* Vince Carter = Aaron Williams, Eric Williams, disgruntled ZO, two protected 1st rounders

* Joe Johnson = Boris Diaw & two protected 1st rounders

Compare those deals to what we got for Eddy... 

*Tim Thomas - I didn't really want to trade for him considering we already have Deng and Noce, but there is no denying his talent. The guy is 6'10, can hit the long ball, and very athletic. The fact he has a huge expiring deal is an added bonus. 

*Sweetney - I think this kid is a bargain for around $2M per year. Remember the game last year against the Knicks where Gordon hit the game winning floater over Sweetney at MSG? Well if you've watched that game over and over again like me (thank goodness I taped it!) you'll recall Sweetney owning Tyson Chandler whenever they were matched one on one. For all his length, Tyson got bullied around by Sweets in the paint. This guy is like a mini-Curry in the low post. 

* 3 draft choices (one 1st rounder in 2006 protected 25-30, two second rounders). Pax has an eye for talent, giving him 3 additional chances at picking up a quality player or two, come on, this has been Pax's biggest strength so far. 

Again, getting someone like Ariza or Lee thrown in would have been better, but when you look at what we actually got out of this deal (especially if we get AD back) I think Pax pulled off a pretty good trade considering the circumstances.


----------



## bulls

SALO said:


> I think the trade works out well for both teams. The Knicks got exactly what they wanted. Eddy will do well there.
> 
> On the Bulls side, I hated the trade at first, but only because I was expecting to get one of Ariza / Lee in the deal. But if you analyze what we got for Curry compared to previous "big trades" you could make the argument Paxson made a GREAT trade considering the circumstances. Consider this...
> 
> * Baron Davis = Speedy Claxton and Dale Davis
> 
> * Vince Carter = Aaron Williams, Eric Williams, disgruntled ZO, two protected 1st rounders
> 
> * Joe Johnson = Boris Diaw & two protected 1st rounders
> 
> Compare those deals to what we got for Eddy...
> 
> *Tim Thomas - I didn't really want to trade for him considering we already have Deng and Noce, but there is no denying his talent. The guy is 6'10, can hit the long ball, and very athletic. The fact he has a huge expiring deal is an added bonus.
> 
> *Sweetney - I think this kid is a bargain for around $2M per year. Remember the game last year against the Knicks where Gordon hit the game winning floater over Sweetney at MSG? Well if you've watched that game over and over again like me (thank goodness I taped it!) you'll recall Sweetney owning Tyson Chandler whenever they were matched one on one. For all his length, Tyson got bullied around by Sweets in the paint. This guy is like a mini-Curry in the low post.
> 
> * 3 draft choices (one 1st rounder in 2006 protected 25-30, two second rounders). Pax has an eye for talent, giving him 3 additional chances at picking up a quality player or two, come on, this has been Pax's biggest strength so far.
> 
> Again, getting someone like Ariza or Lee thrown in would have been better, but when you look at what we actually got out of this deal (especially if we get AD back) I think Pax pulled off a pretty good trade considering the circumstances.


Curry,AD for TT sweets F'in Jermaine Jackson a 1st and 2 2nd's? where is the dam gravy?you cant give away curry without getting some gravy.

baring a nice TT trade at the deadline,at the end of the day you gave away curry for sweets,1yr rental of TT and a 1st?

*take away all the BS circumstances* and youll find that this year pax is IT's *****...


----------



## theBirdman

So, how much is curry going to get per year? Cosidering the trade it can`t be that much...


----------



## Salvaged Ship

SALO said:


> I think the trade works out well for both teams. The Knicks got exactly what they wanted. Eddy will do well there.
> 
> On the Bulls side, I hated the trade at first, but only because I was expecting to get one of Ariza / Lee in the deal. But if you analyze what we got for Curry compared to previous "big trades" you could make the argument Paxson made a GREAT trade considering the circumstances. Consider this...
> 
> * Baron Davis = Speedy Claxton and Dale Davis
> 
> * Vince Carter = Aaron Williams, Eric Williams, disgruntled ZO, two protected 1st rounders
> 
> * Joe Johnson = Boris Diaw & two protected 1st rounders
> 
> Compare those deals to what we got for Eddy...
> 
> *Tim Thomas - I didn't really want to trade for him considering we already have Deng and Noce, but there is no denying his talent. The guy is 6'10, can hit the long ball, and very athletic. The fact he has a huge expiring deal is an added bonus.
> 
> *Sweetney - I think this kid is a bargain for around $2M per year. Remember the game last year against the Knicks where Gordon hit the game winning floater over Sweetney at MSG? Well if you've watched that game over and over again like me (thank goodness I taped it!) you'll recall Sweetney owning Tyson Chandler whenever they were matched one on one. For all his length, Tyson got bullied around by Sweets in the paint. This guy is like a mini-Curry in the low post.
> 
> * 3 draft choices (one 1st rounder in 2006 protected 25-30, two second rounders). Pax has an eye for talent, giving him 3 additional chances at picking up a quality player or two, come on, this has been Pax's biggest strength so far.
> 
> Again, getting someone like Ariza or Lee thrown in would have been better, but when you look at what we actually got out of this deal (especially if we get AD back) I think Pax pulled off a pretty good trade considering the circumstances.


As you say, considering the extreme circumstances. This is a huge gamble for the Knicks. Even if Curry proves to have a healthy heart, you still have large deficiancies in his game, lack of effort, difficulty in keeping fit.

I wonder what Curry's effort will be now. He has struggled with effort throughout his career. Even if he is confident of his doctor's opinion, it must linger in the back of his mind. What happens when he really pushes himself and his heart starts pumping hard or starts to race. What if he gets some minor chest pain. This stuff may be normal, but because of what has happened he surely would get thoughts in his head he could drop dead. Wouldn't you? I know I would. I can't believe he could keep pushing himself if this happens, and it will. It happens to every athelete. When it does, do you think he wil ignore it and push harder? Will he dog it a bit? Or will he just pack it in and collect his 50 mil or whatever it is. I would chose living and taking the 50 mil.

That Isiah takes the gamble should come as no surprise due to his idiotic deals in the past. Didn't see anyone else breaking down the door with an offer. Didn't even see another team even offering Curry QO type money. Only one GM will take that kind of idiotic gamble with no insurance. And not on Shaq. On a player who in perfect health does not contribute enough to warrant 10 mil a year. The only idiot bigger than Isiah is the owner of the Knicks. If you fire Isiah you still have pay his salary, and Curry's, and Crawfords. Wish I had millions to burn.

Maybe Pax could of handled it better regarding things put out in the media. Otherwise, he pulled off a miracle under the circumstances. I believe his interests were primarily for Curry's health, but he also needed to do his job. Pax is a man of high integrity and intelligence and we are lucky to have him.


----------



## Squirrel

Salvaged Ship said:


> I wonder what Curry's effort will be now. He has struggled with effort throughout his career. Even if he is confident of his doctor's opinion, it must linger in the back of his mind. What happens when he really pushes himself and his heart starts pumping hard or starts to race. What if he gets some minor chest pain. This stuff may be normal, but because of what has happened he surely would get thoughts in his head he could drop dead. Wouldn't you? I know I would. I can't believe he could keep pushing himself if this happens, and it will. It happens to every athelete. When it does, do you think he wil ignore it and push harder? Will he dog it a bit? Or will he just pack it in and collect his 50 mil or whatever it is. I would chose living and taking the 50 mil.


I also wonder, now that he's getting paid, if Eddy will take the test-at least for his own peace of mind-if he hasn't secretly taken it already.


----------



## SALO

bulls said:


> Curry,AD for TT sweets F'in Jermaine Jackson a 1st and 2 2nd's? where is the dam gravy?you cant give away curry without getting some gravy.
> 
> baring a nice TT trade at the deadline,at the end of the day you gave away curry for sweets,1yr rental of TT and a 1st?
> 
> *take away all the BS circumstances* and youll find that this year pax is IT's *****...


I've heard many arguments around here that you can't expect to get good value in sign-and-trades...well this was a sign-and-trade...and IMO it's a better deal (or at the very least comparable) to the trades for Baron Davis and Vince Carter, which weren't sign-and-trades. I also believe it's better than what Phoenix got for Joe Johnson.


----------



## calabreseboy

Ok, now I don't normally post on here often but I read a lot of your threads and post. After reader all of this thread, and understanding the trade, I think it's in the best interest of the Bulls. Not only that, but, you can quote me, I think the Bulls will be a better team because of it. Curry was so highly rated, overrated in fact, and to add, he has underachieved and has a damn heart condition. I can see players like Chandler and deng really rising to the occassion now and improving beyond sight, and with hinrich, gordon and duhon leading the floor, all of whom are already great players who have proven themselves (with more proving to do), this bulls team looks great imo. There is a gap, but I think the presence of Curry himself was a gap in the team and was slowing the improvement of other players, such as chandler. Now, Chandler improved immensley last season, and with Curry gone, the gap is still there, but it's not as large.


----------



## lorgg

Great job Pax!!!!


Curry has been nothing short of ?????'s since day 1. The Bulls are in good shape. All you doomsayers will see.


----------



## fenominon

make that 3 picks, 2 2nd rounders and a 1st rounder. I would have liked ariza over sweetney but oh well. I hope we do get antoino back. all I have to say is curry is going to play with a vengence against us when we see him this year.

Question: how many draft picks do we have for next year? are the picks that we recieved from nY for next year or 2009 or something like that?


----------



## The ROY

fenominon said:


> all I have to say is curry is going to play with a vengence against us when we see him this year.
> 
> \


And we have absolutely NOBODY that can stop him either..


----------



## NYKBaller

*Tim Thomas - I didn't really want to trade for him considering we already have Deng and Noce, but there is no denying his talent. The guy is 6'10, can hit the long ball, and very athletic. The fact he has a huge expiring deal is an added bonus. 

*Sweetney - I think this kid is a bargain for around $2M per year. Remember the game last year against the Knicks where Gordon hit the game winning floater over Sweetney at MSG? Well if you've watched that game over and over again like me (thank goodness I taped it!) you'll recall Sweetney owning Tyson Chandler whenever they were matched one on one. For all his length, Tyson got bullied around by Sweets in the paint. This guy is like a mini-Curry in the low post. 

* 3 draft choices (one 1st rounder in 2006 protected 25-30, two second rounders). Pax has an eye for talent, giving him 3 additional chances at picking up a quality player or two, come on, this has been Pax's biggest strength so far. 


The way I see it you get Tim Thomas as an expiring contract since we took Antonio Davis, Sweetney for Curry and the picks to help out. Curry isn't taking a DNA test but he is taking every other test imaginable here in New York for a couple of days


----------



## rlucas4257

Pax backed himself into a corner and wasnt flexible enough to get himself out of it. And while I 100% agree with his desire for the DNA test and that he had no ulterior motives what can not be denied is that the situation that he publicly put out there wasnt good for the Chicago Bulls NOW or POSSIBLY NEXT YEAR IN FA. Regardless, Pax deserves the benefit of the doubt and will get it from me. But right now, my hunch, is that I think the Bulls will be far worse off this year, and possibly down the road, because of the way they handled this. To deal a young 5 who actually has a post game (how many of those are out there? 2? 3?) and not get back atleast 2 out of the following 3 (an unprotected #1, Channing Frye, Trevor Ariza) is terrible. The point is, the Bulls drew a line in the sand (though I am in agreeance with what they wanted), threatened to not play Curry and then set an artificial deadline and then get pushed into a corner by a far inferior GM in Thomas. Pax is a good GM but this was not a deal he wanted or should have or been forced to make and frankly still reeks of a rookie mistake. One of the reasons the Bulls offense looked so good last year at times was because of the open looks the wings and perimeter players got. Why did they get those looks? Because teams have been collapsing on Curry for years. Who is going to do that now? Michael Sweetney? Something tells me as a bit player for a terrible team in the Knicks that he wont show much in Chicago. Songailia is ahead of him in the order. But our inside O is going to be brutal. Its not Tysons game. Our guards cant finish around the bucket. Othella is ok but not great. Malik Allen? No. Sweetney? Maybe in stretches. Songailia is better on the J. The best hope is actually Luol Deng to develop a post game that can attract double teams to get our guys some looks. Our only double team threat just got traded to NYC. And it was mishandled in a big way.


----------



## theanimal23

Very well put RLucas


----------



## JRose5

rlucas4257 said:


> Pax backed himself into a corner and wasnt flexible enough to get himself out of it. And while I 100% agree with his desire for the DNA test and that he had no ulterior motives what can not be denied is that the situation that he publicly put out there wasnt good for the Chicago Bulls NOW or POSSIBLY NEXT YEAR IN FA. Regardless, Pax deserves the benefit of the doubt and will get it from me. But right now, my hunch, is that I think the Bulls will be far worse off this year, and possibly down the road, because of the way they handled this. To deal a young 5 who actually has a post game (how many of those are out there? 2? 3?) and not get back atleast 2 out of the following 3 (an unprotected #1, Channing Frye, Trevor Ariza) is terrible. The point is, the Bulls drew a line in the sand (though I am in agreeance with what they wanted), threatened to not play Curry and then set an artificial deadline and then get pushed into a corner by a far inferior GM in Thomas. Pax is a good GM but this was not a deal he wanted or should have or been forced to make and frankly still reeks of a rookie mistake. One of the reasons the Bulls offense looked so good last year at times was because of the open looks the wings and perimeter players got. Why did they get those looks? Because teams have been collapsing on Curry for years. Who is going to do that now? Michael Sweetney? Something tells me as a bit player for a terrible team in the Knicks that he wont show much in Chicago. Songailia is ahead of him in the order. But our inside O is going to be brutal. Its not Tysons game. Our guards cant finish around the bucket. Othella is ok but not great. Malik Allen? No. Sweetney? Maybe in stretches. Songailia is better on the J. The best hope is actually Luol Deng to develop a post game that can attract double teams to get our guys some looks. Our only double team threat just got traded to NYC. And it was mishandled in a big way.



Great post rlucas.


----------



## SPIN DOCTOR

The ROY said:


> And we have absolutely NOBODY that can stop him either..


That is simply not true. Eddy has always had problems matching up against taller more athletic centers, mark my words, "Tyson will take him out of his game".

Eddy is not all that YET, he may get there, but today he is not close.

I wanted to keep him badly also, but he is, what he is, a kid with alot of potential and still one-dimensional in value.


----------



## kukoc4ever

Great post by rlucas!

Curry did help open up the floor for us. Look at the shooting %s for Gordon, Hinrich and Duhon with this open floor. 

Now that we don't a real post player, its going to have to be tougher for our already undersized guards to get the looks they want and convert them efficiently.


----------



## lgtwins

kukoc4ever said:


> Great post by rlucas!
> 
> Curry did help open up the floor for us. Look at the shooting %s for Gordon, Hinrich and Duhon with this open floor.
> 
> Now that we don't a real post player, its going to have to be tougher for our already undersized guards to get the looks they want and convert them efficiently.


But much of points from three guards you mentioned were from the 4th Q when Curry wasn't on the floor. It seems like somehow we had found a way to open up the floor anyway.

Sure losing Currry is a minus however you look at it. It is degree of negative impact on our overall offense that I don't agree with doomsayers.

Although Curry was our only true post scorer, he never seemed to dictate the outcome of the game in 4 years he played here. That kind of points on the stat sheet can be replaced by chips here and there. More than points total we are going to miss, the fact that Curry was never a game dictating offensive force doesn't put me into the same mindset as doomsayers.


----------



## Frankensteiner

kukoc4ever said:


> Great post by rlucas!
> 
> Curry did help open up the floor for us. Look at the shooting %s for Gordon, Hinrich and Duhon with this open floor.
> 
> Now that we don't a real post player, its going to have to be tougher for our already undersized guards to get the looks they want and convert them efficiently.


Hinrich and Duhon had by far their best shooting months of the season in April, where Curry didn't play a single game. So there goes that theory.


----------



## truebluefan

lgtwins said:


> Not so much of points from threee guard you mentioned were from the 4th Q when Curry wasn't on the floor. It seems like somehow we had found a way to open up the floor anyway.
> 
> Sure losing Currry is a minus however you look at it. It is degree of negative impact on our overall offense that I don't agree with doomsayers.
> 
> Although Curry was our only true post scorer, he never seemed to dictate the outcome of the game in 4 years he played here. That kind of points on the stat sheet can be replaced by chips here and there. More than points total we are going to miss, the fact that Curry was never a game dictating offensive force doesn't put me into the same mindset as doomsayers.


Very nice post! 

Rlucas made a nice post as well and yes he was right to a point. But Eddy DNP in the 4th quarter of many games we won. Our offense worked fine. 

Sweetney has some post up game. 

What if Chandler shows us something this season in the post?


----------



## yodurk

kukoc4ever said:


> Great post by rlucas!
> 
> Curry did help open up the floor for us. Look at the shooting %s for Gordon, Hinrich and Duhon with this open floor.
> 
> Now that we don't a real post player, its going to have to be tougher for our already undersized guards to get the looks they want and convert them efficiently.


What I expect we'll see is a slight change of style that Skiles implements. The team's offense will be based more around ball movement & slashing, much like the Sonics of last year. The Bulls have a MUCH better shooting team than last year. Adding Tim Thomas, Darius Songaila, AD, and Allen all have nice shooting ability from the 4/5 spots. This should translate into fewer team turnovers, but less of a low-post game. Hopefully this team gets out and runs!


----------



## kukoc4ever

Frankensteiner said:


> Hinrich and Duhon had by far their best shooting months of the season in April, where Curry didn't play a single game. So there goes that theory.


We'll see how it plays out. That was an impressive shooting run of 11 games for both Hinrich and Duhon.

Perhaps this move will be what propels the Bulls to the elite of the NBA. Pax may be a genius after all.


----------



## Chicago N VA

yodurk said:


> What I expect we'll see is a slight change of style that Skiles implements. The team's offense will be based more around ball movement & slashing, much like the Sonics of last year. The Bulls have a MUCH better shooting team than last year. Adding Tim Thomas, Darius Songaila, AD, and Allen all have nice shooting ability from the 4/5 spots. This should translate into fewer team turnovers, but less of a low-post game. Hopefully this team gets out and runs!


I would hope that they get out and run.. that is the only way I see them compensating for the loss of our only real post presence.

I DON'T want to relive games 3 - 6 of Washington Wizards playoff series.. all season when the Wizards bigs were made too look unstoppable and we didn't have an answer.. 

I just hope this works out in the end! I am dissappointed, but I am willing to reserve judgement on this until the season gets underway!!


----------



## theanimal23

Very few teams win it all without a legit post presence. I'm not saying Eddy would have done, but I felt he could have developed into that. I think our team will be slightly worse than last year (due to improvement of other teams), but we will need to find a mid-season trade or add someone next year in FA.


----------



## ace20004u

Ok, on this trade. My thoughts. First, Paxson's insistence that Curry take the DNA test despite the fact that Curry was cleared by three highly respected physicians in the field is just asinine. It's pretty clear from everything I have read that the test is less than conclusive and only determines a predisposition anyway. The timing of revisiting the DNA test was extremely poor. "Uhhh..you just rejected that contract we offered you so we are worried about your health again and uhhh..we need you to uhh..take that DNA test thingy the one doctor out of 4 you visited suggested, yeah thats the ticket!" I don't blame Curry one iota for refusing to take it, even with Pax's disengenious offer of $400k a year if he failed. A whole lot of people would fail that test and it wouldn't mean a damn thing about their NBA career so I truly fail to see the point. One article seemed to suggest that Curry would have signed a liability waiver so that wasn't the issue. What was the issue? The Bulls didn't want to pay Curry the money he wanted...plain & simple. The same way they didn't want to pay Crawford (who has a very reasonable contract no matter what any of you say and IS a talented player). Paxson decided that dealing Eddy was better than paying him. This isn't about caring about anything other than your bottome line IMHO. 

From a basketball standpoint it will be interesting to hear how this all fleshs out. I have heard several different permutations of this trade. My guess is that it is AD/Curry for Sweetney, Thomas, Jermain Jackson, maybe his brother Tito, and 2 picks, I am guessing a first rounder and a second rounder. Will NY release Davis so the Bulls can resign him? Is that part of the plan? If so it makes the deal a little better. Of course the real prize in this whole deal is Eddy Curry and Thomas did a masterful job of getting him from Pax. Of course, Pax didn't want to pay him so that makes Thomas job a whole lot easier. Sweetney will be a nice player for us. I think a lot of people will be surprised at just how good Sweetney is. He is a bull in the post, very powerful, knows how to use his body, rebounds well, needs to work on his defense but he will help the Bulls. Tim Thomas is a cancer...I don't know what the Bulls will do with him. He has one of those players that teases...he can play really well one game and then have 3 or 4 crappy games. I know very little about Jackson and assume he will be waived. So, the Bulls get smaller, younger, less effective on the interior, but a chance to get a pick in next years draft. My best guess is that the Knicks pick is somewhere at the end of the lottery...12-17 or so. Still, so much hasn't been said about the picks, who knows what the real deal is? New York got exactly what they needed and they got to hold onto Ariza and Lee. Ny should be a force to be reckoned with next season. Crawford and Curry are gonna bring back that chemistry they share and show us why we should have kept both of them. The Bulls..it's tough to say...there are too many variables right now. Will AD be back? Will Thomas buy in and behave? Is there another trade or FA signing waiting to happen? What picks and who will be available with them? 

All in all, this sucks if your a Bulls fan. When ESPN comes on and says the Bulls have traded Curry but Paxson "declines to comment on what we got in return", you know the Bulls got screwed royally. The only Bulls fans that should be happy today are the player haters that hate Eddy Curry for some strange reason. In any case, it is a sad day for Bulls fans and it definitley does not bode well for the Bulls short and probably long term success. 

I'm disgusted but I really have to hand it to Thomas. He has stolen two really good players from Paxson. I will definitley be following the Bulls AND the Knicks closely this season.

(edit Just found out the pick is the Spurs 28-30 pick? and 2 second rounders...that certainly sucks a lot more than having the Knicks lotto pick as I originally assumed.)

BTW, nice post by Rlucas...and I agree with Bealefeargle, my favorite Bulls traded 2 years straight...I just hope we aren't trading Chandler next season!


----------



## TomBoerwinkle#1

rlucas4257 said:


> Pax backed himself into a corner and wasnt flexible enough to get himself out of it. And while I 100% agree with his desire for the DNA test and that he had no ulterior motives what can not be denied is that the situation that he publicly put out there wasnt good for the Chicago Bulls NOW or POSSIBLY NEXT YEAR IN FA. Regardless, Pax deserves the benefit of the doubt and will get it from me. But right now, my hunch, is that I think the Bulls will be far worse off this year, and possibly down the road, because of the way they handled this. To deal a young 5 who actually has a post game (how many of those are out there? 2? 3?) and not get back atleast 2 out of the following 3 (an unprotected #1, Channing Frye, Trevor Ariza) is terrible. The point is, the Bulls drew a line in the sand (though I am in agreeance with what they wanted), threatened to not play Curry and then set an artificial deadline and then get pushed into a corner by a far inferior GM in Thomas. Pax is a good GM but this was not a deal he wanted or should have or been forced to make and frankly still reeks of a rookie mistake. One of the reasons the Bulls offense looked so good last year at times was because of the open looks the wings and perimeter players got. Why did they get those looks? Because teams have been collapsing on Curry for years. Who is going to do that now? Michael Sweetney? Something tells me as a bit player for a terrible team in the Knicks that he wont show much in Chicago. Songailia is ahead of him in the order. But our inside O is going to be brutal. Its not Tysons game. Our guards cant finish around the bucket. Othella is ok but not great. Malik Allen? No. Sweetney? Maybe in stretches. Songailia is better on the J. The best hope is actually Luol Deng to develop a post game that can attract double teams to get our guys some looks. Our only double team threat just got traded to NYC. And it was mishandled in a big way.



"ditto"


----------



## Da Grinch

I'm of the belief this deal doesn't mean as much to the bulls as people think.

the only real blow in my opinion to the bulls is that they have no one to defend centers well.

sweetney is a good post up player , he is too strong for virtually every power forward in the league on the block and he is skilled enough to score on centers as well. he just has excellent footwork he's been schooled well at georgetown and by mark aquirre he has a smooth array of moves he can go to.

tim thomas is indefensible to the avg. small forward on the block he is 6 '10 250 all muscle , he just backs them down and shoots over them, he is also so accurate a shooter and skilled enough on the drive that 4's have a real hard time with him.

the bulls will be alright when it comes to offense ...its defense that i worry , no AD possibly (supposedly larry brown is fighting to keep him reffering to it as the antonio davis trade) and no curry means its tyson and a brigade of undersized power forwards defending centers and that spells disaster. the job may ultimately fall to sweetney who does a decent job but it gets him in foul trouble. but that not nearly the job AD and curry do.

no one is talking about it , but jermaine jackson could be key in this trade , he is a 6'5 210 lbs. pg who can defend very well at both guard spots and is a pass 1st pg, he could be a great player to team with kirk and ben because he frees them both defensively and can ease their burden.


----------



## ViciousFlogging

I've been, and continue to be, a Paxson fan. However I said I'd call him out if he let one of the big kids get away for what I consider to be less than suitable compensation.

That's what he did. Thomas doesn't fit here in my first estimation. I'd rather give the 3/swing minutes to Deng and Nocioni exclusively, and we already have a glut of 4s who aren't big enough to play the pivot. TT has never come close to what people thought he could do, and won't here either. At least it's only for 1 year. Sweetney could still become a decent player, but if he couldn't become a regular player on that Knicks team with all those mediocre 6'5" PFs, I'm not holding my breath that he's on the brink of stardom.

I understand that this was a somewhat extraordinary circumstance, but I just don't know about this. I almost would prefer to have just rolled the dice with Curry on the QO, continue trying to figure out a suitable solution to the health issues, and see if another strong season with the Bulls making the playoffs and hopefully getting past round 1, and some serious fence-mending could have given us a shot to re-up Curry after next season. For all his worts, Curry was an offensive force who was getting better at picking his spots and passing. He was even figuring out how to rotate on defense and provide help. I don't think the Bulls are doomed without him, but seeing what we got in return, I think we're worse off now, at least temporarily. Kirk and Ben are going to have some more hands in their faces this season. I hope Deng improves as much as I think he could.

I'm going to see how the team meshes with the new pieces. We still have a ton of young talent, Skiles, and the prospect of heaps of cap room in the near future. We also have TT's expiring deal, which could net something decent at the deadline. 

So, to those who think that the pro-Paxson people would try to defend him no matter what, here's ONE example where that's not the case. I'm very apprehensive about this deal and my initial reaction is disappointment. The Bulls could come out of this just fine, but as of now I think we've moved backwards, even if it's a small and temporary move. However, Paxson has earned some leverage with me and I'm willing to see how the team does from here on out.

edit: I should also note that it's still not entirely clear what the situation is with draft picks changing hands. If we end up with a first rounder, that would tilt it a little more in Pax's favor.


----------



## NYKBaller

ya'll lost a lot of scoring, deng or someone has to pick up the slack


----------



## rlucas4257

ViciousFlogging said:


> I've been, and continue to be, a Paxson fan. However I said I'd call him out if he let one of the big kids get away for what I consider to be less than suitable compensation.
> 
> That's what he did. Thomas doesn't fit here in my first estimation. I'd rather give the 3/swing minutes to Deng and Nocioni exclusively, and we already have a glut of 4s who aren't big enough to play the pivot. TT has never come close to what people thought he could do, and won't here either. At least it's only for 1 year. Sweetney could still become a decent player, but if he couldn't become a regular player on that Knicks team with all those mediocre 6'5" PFs, I'm not holding my breath that he's on the brink of stardom.
> 
> I understand that this was a somewhat extraordinary circumstance, but I just don't know about this. I almost would prefer to have just rolled the dice with Curry on the QO, continue trying to figure out a suitable solution to the health issues, and see if another strong season with the Bulls making the playoffs and hopefully getting past round 1, and some serious fence-mending could have given us a shot to re-up Curry after next season. For all his worts, Curry was an offensive force who was getting better at picking his spots and passing. He was even figuring out how to rotate on defense and provide help. I don't think the Bulls are doomed without him, but seeing what we got in return, I think we're worse off now, at least temporarily. Kirk and Ben are going to have some more hands in their faces this season. I hope Deng improves as much as I think he could.
> 
> I'm going to see how the team meshes with the new pieces. We still have a ton of young talent, Skiles, and the prospect of heaps of cap room in the near future. We also have TT's expiring deal, which could net something decent at the deadline.
> 
> So, to those who think that the pro-Paxson people would try to defend him no matter what, here's ONE example where that's not the case. I'm very apprehensive about this deal and my initial reaction is disappointment. The Bulls could come out of this just fine, but as of now I think we've moved backwards, even if it's a small and temporary move. However, Paxson has earned some leverage with me and I'm willing to see how the team does from here on out.



what flogging said. 

Well done. I feel about the same.


----------



## spongyfungy

Curry re-upping was a near impossibility. Curry has told friends he didn't want to be a bull anymore. Paxson said last night he was not stepping on the court without the test so unless he took it, he was getting no PT. He would just be sitting on the bench getting angrier and anxious to play by the day. If anyone thinks a game of chicken would work, you're saddly mistaken. There was no way the two sides would budge. The damage was done and actions were irreversible. If he did privately take the test, all the more reason to not comply with the Bulls. If he signed the QO, the Bulls would not be able to trade him, making him an uFA, free to sign with any team without the Bulls getting anything in return. Can you imagine the year-long distraction an untradeable, unplayable Curry would bring to a team??

Paxson did the correct thing by getting something from the Knicks. I am going to miss Curry but Pax had no choice. This was the last resort Paxson had in line at the 11th hour and he broke the emergency glass. I'm not 100% pro Pax but he did what he had to do.


----------



## lorgg

I am extremely critical of this deal. It had to be done, though. Time to move on from the Eddy era. Let's be glad we have a GM of high character, who places LIFE before a sport. 

Many of you believe Curry is an adult and should be given the choice to decide. This isn't just about what Curry wants. John Paxson has been given the trust of the Bulls organization. It is his obligation to protect their interests. He did. He chose not to gamble with ownership's assets.

There has been so much talk of Eddy's work ethic and drive. I'm of the opinion that Curry plays hoops to get paid, not for the love of the game. In 4 years as a Bull, Eddy reached his ceiling. With his physical characterstics and God given ability he would've shown more by now. Eddy may have a stellar year here or there, but will never achieve KG, TD, Shaq heights.

Eddy Curry has one major problem keeping him for reaching super-star status.

Eddy Curry has one flaw: his HEART!

Good move Pax...way to take the high road. Go Bulls!


----------



## lorgg

NYKBaller said:


> ya'll lost a lot of scoring, deng or someone has to pick up the slack


Whoa...16 pts per game...Thats 3 points per starter...oh yeah 4 for Gordon. Also only one rebound per starter. Should be easy enough.


----------



## ace20004u

I don't understand this "there was no other choice" mentality. Of course there was, Paxson could have acted reasonably and backed off of his asinine demands that Curry take a DNA test and then signed him to a deal or let him play on the QO and work out a deal next offseason. It certainly didn't HAVE to end this way, Pax is the one who started playing chicken IMO.


----------



## fl_flash

On the trade of players - eh. I think it's mostly a wash. I'm hoping AD does, in fact, get waived and come back. I think the group of guys on the team is a pretty resiliant bunch. Sweetney can add some scoring and rebounding. Hopefully he'll work on his conditioning which will effect his defense and help him stay out of foul trouble. One of the things that worry's me is both Sweetney and Songaila are pretty adept at picking up quick/cheap fouls. Overall, I think the transaction does little to change my feelings on the club and their ability to perform and win games.

What I do find interesting is the potential situation with the picks... If I understand this correctly, NY owes Utah a conditional first round pick. Top 25 protected this year. NY also holds SA's pick. If the Knicks happen to finish with a top-5 record, that pick (NY) goes to Utah. If not, that pick is the property of the Bulls - free and clear (no restrictions?). The Knicks would use SA's pick as their own in either instance. Now, I've also read about a supposed option to swap picks in 2007. Don't know about that one. I'm just not sold on the Knicks as they are constructed this year. I have very little doubt that they'll be a top-5 team in the league. I'm not even sure they're better than the fourth team in their division (only better than the Raps). It's a potential lottery pick, or at worst somewhere in the late teens to early twenties. The pick swap is also kinda curious - especially if it's at the Bulls discretion. Could end up being a VERY sweet deal when all is said and done. Have to wait two years to find this out tho. I have no idea if this really is the case with the picks, but over at RealGM this seems to be the gist of what the pick situation is...


----------



## ViciousFlogging

spongyfungy said:


> Curry re-upping was a near impossibility. Curry has told friends he didn't want to be a bull anymore. Paxson said last night he was not stepping on the court without the test so unless he took it, he was getting no PT. He would just be sitting on the bench getting angrier and anxious to play by the day. If anyone thinks a game of chicken would work, you're saddly mistaken. There was no way the two sides would budge. The damage was done and actions were irreversible. If he did privately take the test, all the more reason to not comply with the Bulls. If he signed the QO, the Bulls would not be able to trade him, making him an uFA, free to sign with any team without the Bulls getting anything in return. Can you imagine the year-long distraction an untradeable, unplayable Curry would bring to a team??
> 
> Paxson did the correct thing by getting something from the Knicks. I am going to miss Curry but Pax had no choice. This was the last resort Paxson had in line at the 11th hour and he broke the emergency glass. I'm not 100% pro Pax but he did what he had to do.


Yeah you're probably right. My thought of keeping Curry around for the QO and then healing the open wounds in time for next summer was almost certainly pie-in-the-sky. I'm just so underwhelmed with what we got for him right now that I'd almost rather take a risk on Curry and find a way to get a good year out of him, somehow. Maybe when the dust settles I'll see this as a pragmatic move that had to be made, despite the lack of return.


----------



## ScottMay

spongyfungy said:


> Paxson did the correct thing by getting something from the Knicks. I am going to miss Curry but Pax had no choice. This was the last resort Paxson had in line at the 11th hour and he broke the emergency glass. I'm not 100% pro Pax but he did what he had to do.


I totally agree that given the circumstances, this was about the best deal the Bulls could muster.

But that doesn't absolve the Bulls for letting things degenerate to this point. It seems now that the master plan was to get Eddy's name on a screaming lowball of a contract, then hope to get him to take a DNA test. If he passed, great: you've got a talented young player on a long-term non-renegotiable rock-bottom contract. If he failed, fine: he can't play anywhere else and you've gotten him out of your hair for dirt cheap.

That was not a sound plan, especially in that pursuing it the way they did made Eddy even less of an appealing target for other teams than he already was due to his status as a restricted FA, and especially in that there seem to be serious fundamental doubts about the medical reasoning behind the DNA test in the first place.

All in all, things played out about as badly as I'd feared back in March/April when this all came to light. I find the assumption that Eddy's play and his attitude were the final impediments to the ascendancy of the Bulls to be absolutely, absurdly without merit. Last season proved as much -- we struggled mightily as an offensive unit while playing an almost perfect season on the defensive end. 

In the long term, I remain skeptical that A. An approximate Curry replacement can be obtained, and B. The Bulls will actually use the much-ballyhooed $25 million in Cap Space. Reinsdorf isn't willing to run the team at break-even.

In the short term, despite the happy faces and upbeat attitudes, I think this year will be a step backward for the team that will eventually lead to even more sweeping personnel changes. I also wonder who the next whipping boy will be (all signs point to Ben Gordon).


----------



## rwj333

Da Grinch said:


> I'm of the belief this deal doesn't mean as much to the bulls as people think.
> 
> the only real blow in my opinion to the bulls is that they have no one to defend centers well.
> 
> the bulls will be alright when it comes to offense ...its defense that i worry , no AD possibly (supposedly larry brown is fighting to keep him reffering to it as the antonio davis trade) and no curry means its tyson and a brigade of undersized power forwards defending centers and that spells disaster. the job may ultimately fall to sweetney who does a decent job but it gets him in foul trouble. but that not nearly the job AD and curry do.


I agree a lot with this. Curry may have been a horrible team defender, but his man defense was pretty good. Perhaps that evens out, perhaps not.


----------



## SALO

fl_flash said:


> On the trade of players - eh. I think it's mostly a wash. I'm hoping AD does, in fact, get waived and come back. I think the group of guys on the team is a pretty resiliant bunch. Sweetney can add some scoring and rebounding. Hopefully he'll work on his conditioning which will effect his defense and help him stay out of foul trouble. One of the things that worry's me is both Sweetney and Songaila are pretty adept at picking up quick/cheap fouls. Overall, I think the transaction does little to change my feelings on the club and their ability to perform and win games.
> 
> What I do find interesting is the potential situation with the picks... If I understand this correctly, *NY owes Utah a conditional first round pick. Top 25 protected this year. NY also holds SA's pick. If the Knicks happen to finish with a top-5 record, that pick (NY) goes to Utah. If not, that pick is the property of the Bulls - free and clear (no restrictions?)*. The Knicks would use SA's pick as their own in either instance. Now, I've also read about a supposed option to swap picks in 2007. Don't know about that one. I'm just not sold on the Knicks as they are constructed this year. I have very little doubt that they'll be a top-5 team in the league. I'm not even sure they're better than the fourth team in their division (only better than the Raps). It's a potential lottery pick, or at worst somewhere in the late teens to early twenties. The pick swap is also kinda curious - especially if it's at the Bulls discretion. Could end up being a VERY sweet deal when all is said and done. Have to wait two years to find this out tho. I have no idea if this really is the case with the picks, but over at RealGM this seems to be the gist of what the pick situation is...


The bolded part is how Sam Smith describes the situation. If the Knicks pick in 2006 is anywhere from 1st overall to 25th, it goes to US. If the pick falls between 26-30 it goes to Utah. There's absolutely no way that pick goes to Utah... it will belong to us...and it looks like there is *zero protection *if it's in the *lottery*. This could turn out huge for us if the Knicks suffer an injury or two and end up in the lottery. 

If we also get the right to swap picks in 2007 that's even better than 2 2nd rounders IMO.


----------



## bullet

fl_flash said:


> On the trade of players - eh. I think it's mostly a wash. I'm hoping AD does, in fact, get waived and come back. I think the group of guys on the team is a pretty resiliant bunch. Sweetney can add some scoring and rebounding. Hopefully he'll work on his conditioning which will effect his defense and help him stay out of foul trouble. One of the things that worry's me is both Sweetney and Songaila are pretty adept at picking up quick/cheap fouls. Overall, I think the transaction does little to change my feelings on the club and their ability to perform and win games.
> 
> What I do find interesting is the potential situation with the picks... If I understand this correctly, NY owes Utah a conditional first round pick. Top 25 protected this year. NY also holds SA's pick. If the Knicks happen to finish with a top-5 record, that pick (NY) goes to Utah. If not, that pick is the property of the Bulls - free and clear (no restrictions?). The Knicks would use SA's pick as their own in either instance. Now, I've also read about a supposed option to swap picks in 2007. Don't know about that one. I'm just not sold on the Knicks as they are constructed this year. I have very little doubt that they'll be a top-5 team in the league. I'm not even sure they're better than the fourth team in their division (only better than the Raps). It's a potential lottery pick, or at worst somewhere in the late teens to early twenties. The pick swap is also kinda curious - especially if it's at the Bulls discretion. Could end up being a VERY sweet deal when all is said and done. Have to wait two years to find this out tho. I have no idea if this really is the case with the picks, but over at RealGM this seems to be the gist of what the pick situation is...


fl - I think it's lottery protected and not top 25th - link! 

Thats why I'm not sure , I think we get the lower of the SA pick and NY's pick. so it's basically SA's 1st , which is close to a 2nd rounder with longer rookie contract . so if the Knicks fall out of lottery they lose their pick to Jazz and the SA pick to us. Thats what I understand anyway.

I agree the rumored swap is interesting. I posted before that a swap by itself might be worth more than 1 first rounder , all depending on whats the difference in picks allowed for swap (I'd say no more than 10) and for how long we have that right (gotta take it in a good situation).
Just a completely hypothetical situation:
Bulls finish the league with the 17th - 18th 1st rounder while NY gets the 8th-10th. this kind of swaps have great value in some situations. in 2001 the 7th pick was traded for 13th , 18th and 23rd (NJ/Rockets).
I read at 1 paper possible swap at 2007 and another without timing on swap.

so if it were SA pick + swap appliable for 2006 as well (lets say Bulls 18th and NY 11th) we can turn a one pick (18th) draft into a 12th and 27-30th 1st rounder. Usually a good position to move higher in draft , or use in trade , or trade for futures to get stronger in 2007 Oden draft.

Picks are always strong cards in trades , good convincers , nice extras.

Personally - if we wind up having like the 18th (ours) and 27th , I'd prefer trading 1 or even both to get stronger in 2007 draft (Oden/Durant/Brandan Wright).


----------



## Philomath

I think this:

- I think Paxson extracted as much as he was going to get, and was still dissatisfied. He was in rough shape in his conference last night. But it's hard to wrangle a terrific trade when everyone knows you're trading away a "damaged" Eddy Curry, and NY is receiving a "healthy" Eddy who will be paid as if he's healthy on the other end, due to the difference of opinion. From where we were two weeks ago, this is among the better practical outcomes we could have.

- I think Paxson felt an enormous obligation to Curry and to his employers and to his team. He was SO focused on doing the "correct" and dutiful thing that he might have missed out on doing the right thing. His principles locked him into a corner. Pax tripped over his jib. 

- I think that if we get a 25-30 protected first, and AD comes back, AND we get Thomas and Sweetney, with a chance of resigning either or both next year if we want them, with a year of Right Way under their belt, plus two second rounders Jerry Krause would be drooling over - that's much better than an Eddy with certain talent but an uncertain chance of fulfilling his potential, the only bad defender out of the starting 5, an uncertain work ethic - other than being a good guy, he's largely un-Right Way - who also has health concerns (of whatever degree), was extremely unlikely to re-sign and would have been playing (or not playing) on a 1-year QO. We would have been renting a distraction.

- I think we've paid our post-Jordan karmic debt. JWill was a number two pick that turned into nothing due to a freak injury. Marcus Fizer was a number four pick that turned in to nothing due to knee injuries (among other things). Eddy Curry was a number four pick who left town because of a heart ailment - the situation was directed by the various reactions to it, but if it wasn't for the out-of-nowhere arrhythmia, none of this happens. These are the kind of picks that are supposed to turn franchises around. There aren't many players you couldn't get with a #2 and two #4's in the first round. Hopefully our comeuppance is over.

- I think we are in good shape. Not in the shape we'd be in with a healthy, happy, potential-fulfilling Curry - but the chances of that weren't great anyway.

- I think I'm going to like Mike Sweetney. And I hope Curry does well in NY, is healthy, and doesn't hate the Bulls. I notice Leon Rose's words were at least a little conciliatory. Nobody wanted the QO.

- I think Chandler is our center and I think he'll be a bigger defensive force there than at PF - IF he can stay on the court.

I'm glad it's over.


----------



## Wat

Obviously Paxson liked Curry and wanted to keep him on the Bulls. However, he wasn't calling the shots in this situation (he does have a boss) and criticizing him for getting all he could (and he did get plenty) is a joke. The Bulls will be fine, and they still have the best young talent in the league, along with a great coach.


----------



## rlucas4257

While Pax has done a good job, doesnt anyone kind of wish that he would keep things a little more in house like Krause used too? I think Krause might have felt the same way as Pax did, but he sure wouldnt be talking to the Suntimes or Daily Herald about it. By airing out all the dirty laundry, which is what Pax did, he created a situation where he would never get fair value for Eddy. Sometimes its better to keep your mouth shut, your intentions to yourself and quit allowing the press to know whats going on. In this case, any leverage that Pax had was lost the second he opened his pie hole to the press. And its a rookie mistake on his part that he needs to fix.


----------



## lgtwins

ace20004u said:


> I don't understand this "there was no other choice" mentality. Of course there was, Paxson could have acted reasonably and backed off of his asinine demands that Curry take a DNA test and then signed him to a deal or let him play on the QO and work out a deal next offseason. It certainly didn't HAVE to end this way, Pax is the one who started playing chicken IMO.


I firmly believed both side contributed creating this eventual no-win messy situation and hence tend to blame both sides. Some people made it sound like only Paxon could have backed off and made thing better and Curry camp has equal opportunity but didn't follow through because of their own greed.

They only think that while negative results will give them slight advantages, they have too much to lose in case of positive results at least at the negotiation table with Paxon. So they took the safe road where they would no possibility of positive result whatsoever cause they wouldn’t have taken it. If anyone thought that Curry camp refused to take the test based on the right of privacy or anything he is too naive IMO. With their own doctor's claim for Curry clean health, they only saw $$$ too.

Although this is reaching, I am actually agree with those who thought that Curry took the test privately and hiding the result and took a gamble his life based on the fact that "predisposition is just that". 

So many people are quick to blame Paxon for putting himself into corner by his own fault. Enough of people pointed out that fact so I am here to say that Curry camp should be blamed equally.


----------



## DaBullz

It doesn't matter if both sides are to blame. Organizations may not win championships, but they are the business face of the team. If they are perceived to be hostile to players, you aren't going to get players to come here and sign FA deals - unless they're end of the bench types who nobody else wants.

If there _ever_ was a lesson to be learned from watching Krause destroy the championship teams, this is it.


----------



## NYKBaller

Paxson doesn't know how to treat players, the knicks organization is like a family to our players, thats why they want to come here...


----------



## rlucas4257

NYKBaller said:


> Paxson doesn't know how to treat players, the knicks organization is like a family to our players, thats why they want to come here...



Thats not exactly true. The glitz and glamour of NYC is by far the biggest reason players want to go there, and also the fact that they overpay for everyone.


----------



## lgtwins

DaBullz said:


> It doesn't matter if both sides are to blame. Organizations may not win championships, but they are the business face of the team. <b>If they are perceived to be hostile to players, you aren't going to get players to come here and sign FA deals - unless they're end of the bench types who nobody else wants.</b>
> 
> If there _ever_ was a lesson to be learned from watching Krause destroy the championship teams, this is it.


I don't believe this for a second. By the time they choose a team they want to play for, only two things seems matter. RING or MONEY. If Bulls are in the position to offer either one of them, players will come. This organization is an evil empire thing just doesn't work for me.


----------



## rlucas4257

lgtwins said:


> I don't believe this for a second. By the time they choose a team they want to play for, only two things seems matter. RING or MONEY. If Bulls are in the position to offer either one of them, players will come. This organization is an evil empire thing just doesn't work for me.



lgt

I am not sure the Bulls are being looked at favorably because of this. There is more to it then rings and money. Players want to know they are taken care of and that the organization has their backs. While I think Paxs intention was admirable, I know the way he looks to the outside world is really not so good. Its just a fact. Players would like to win rings, but can we really offer that right now? Money, we can offer, but not anymore to the max types out there since they would get the max from their own teams and then some. But there is weather as a consideration (chicago doesnt offer that), state income taxes (chicago doesnt offer that) etc. It seems that we are putting all of our eggs into the FA basket and last time we did that it set us back 5 years. I dont think Pax should be making that same mistake.


----------



## yodurk

rlucas4257 said:


> lgt
> 
> I am not sure the Bulls are being looked at favorably because of this. There is more to it then rings and money. Players want to know they are taken care of and that the organization has their backs. While I think Paxs intention was admirable, I know the way he looks to the outside world is really not so good. Its just a fact. Players would like to win rings, but can we really offer that right now? Money, we can offer, but not anymore to the max types out there since they would get the max from their own teams and then some. But there is weather as a consideration (chicago doesnt offer that), state income taxes (chicago doesnt offer that) etc. *It seems that we are putting all of our eggs into the FA basket and last time we did that it set us back 5 years.* I dont think Pax should be making that same mistake.


I respectfully disagree with the bolded part. Pax is merely putting a few eggs in the FA basket. We already have a very talented core, even without Curry here, and next summer could very well provide his replacement. Pax relied on smart drafting/trading to get where we are now, which is a good (but not yet great) playoff worthy team. The FA money we have next summer is not the sole hope of the organization as it was back in 2000. It's just 1 means of improving the team and moving forward even more. If it doesn't work out, we still have a large handful of draft picks and the current core to fall back on, until the next opportunity arises to make an improvement (e.g. trade for a proven star, for instance). The most important thing is that we maintain the flexibility to take advantage of potential opportunities.


----------



## lgtwins

rlucas4257 said:


> lgt
> 
> I am not sure the Bulls are being looked at favorably because of this. <b>There is more to it then rings and money. Players want to know they are taken care of and that the organization has their backs.</b> While I think Paxs intention was admirable, I know the way he looks to the outside world is really not so good. Its just a fact. Players would like to win rings, but can we really offer that right now? Money, we can offer, but not anymore to the max types out there since they would get the max from their own teams and then some. But there is weather as a consideration (chicago doesnt offer that), state income taxes (chicago doesnt offer that) etc. It seems that we are putting all of our eggs into the FA basket and last time we did that it set us back 5 years. I dont think Pax should be making that same mistake.


I am not disagreeing with you on bolded portion. I just think even though that is certainly something they consider when they pick and choose a team, it just doesn't seems like that much of priority. There probably a lot of example when player choose a team solely based on RING or MONEY regardless of how organization treat their player or something like that. On the extreme note, I don't see anybody want to play for us because of the reason you cited despite less money or no chance at the ring. Plus, I am also in the different boat about the assumption that this all Curry episode will have only negative impact on PR part because I never believe for a second what Paxon did is what some posters implied all summer long (intentionally lowering Curry value to keep him cheap). But that's just me of course. As you stated in your post, some players will see that Paxon's intention was good and that would be end of it.


----------



## rlucas4257

lgtwins said:


> I am not disagreeing with you on bolded portion. I just think even though that is certainly something they consider when they pick and choose a team, it just doesn't seems like that much of priority. There probably a lot of example when player choose a team solely based on RING or MONEY regardless of how organization treat their player or something like that. On the extreme note, I don't see anybody want to play for us because of the reason you cited despite less money or no chance at the ring. Plus, I am also in the different boat about the assumption that this all Curry episode will have only negative impact on PR part because I never believe for a second what Paxon did is what some posters implied all summer long (intentionally lowering Curry value to keep him cheap). But that's just me of course. As you stated in your post, some players will see that Paxon's intention was good and that would be end of it.


fair enough mate. But the press today has been brutal on Pax nationwide. This issue even came up on CNBC today, of all places, and they basically said the Bulls had no right to invade the kids privacy. I think Paxs intentions were admirable to be honest but players black-balled the Bulls once and could do it again.


----------



## ChiBulls2315

Excuse me for not reading through everything here, but does anyone know which 1st rounder we got back? I assumed it was NY's, but I was reading a thread on the Knicks board and they said it was S.A.'s pick.


----------



## DaBullz

rlucas4257 said:


> fair enough mate. But the press today has been brutal on Pax nationwide. This issue even came up on CNBC today, of all places, and they basically said the Bulls had no right to invade the kids privacy. I think Paxs intentions were admirable to be honest but players black-balled the Bulls once and could do it again.


If it goes around that Curry was taking diet pills because of the bad lip he was getting from the coach and GM, it's doom on the FA front. That's whether it's reported in the press, or just gossip around the NBA water coolers.


----------



## lgtwins

DaBullz said:


> If it goes around that Curry was taking diet pills because of the bad lip he was getting from the coach and GM, it's doom on the FA front. That's whether it's reported in the press, or just gossip around the NBA water coolers.


How in the world is this Bulls' fault? They wanted Curry to be in shape once in his life. So they asked him to meet certain weight. Instead of working out to meet the weight, this kid took a diet pill reportedly (although he did work out but not enough to meet the weight). Now possibly (possibly remember?) due to that, he had an irregular heart beat and some scare. And all of sudden you twisted that into something like because Bulls pushed him to meet the weight unfairly he took the pill. And now even his taking the pill is Bulls ' fault. What a baloney!

If you want to blame Bulls for asking to meet certain weight, then blame them all you want. But blame Bulls for his taking the pill? What kind of twisted logic is that?


----------



## SkywalkerAC

Not many people mentioning your cap room next summer. How much is it estimated to be after this trade? I think Joel Przybilla might be a nice Curry replacement, giving you perhaps the best defensive frontcourt in the league. Just a thought. Still, I did want to see Curry and the baby bulls continue to develop together. Looked like he was making some good strides last season.


----------



## ViciousFlogging

DaBullz said:


> If it goes around that Curry was taking diet pills because of the bad lip he was getting from the coach and GM, it's doom on the FA front. That's whether it's reported in the press, or just gossip around the NBA water coolers.


This is one of your biggest reaches of all time in trying to pin any and all blame on the organization. I find it hard to fathom that even you believe this one. 

For one, even trying to blame the Bulls for wanting Curry to get in shape and actually setting a benchmark for him to reach is silly. What "bad lip" did he get? Public comments that they want him to get in better shape? Perish the thought! 

For another, this "the Big Bad Bulls org. forced diet pills down poor naive Eddy Curry's throat by demanding that he hit a playing weight of 285 for traning camp" storyline will never get picked up by anyone, ever. Because it's laughable. And on top of that, playing at a slimmer weight all season, Eddy had his most consistent season of his pro career. So yeah, wanting him to play at that weight was a really malicious idea, huh? 

You're a libertarian, right? Personal responsibility? If Eddy Curry thought the only way he could get to the desired weight was to take diet pills, that's on HIM, not Paxson and Skiles. That said, I haven't seen any definitive evidence that this is the case.


This whole episode very well might have negative blowback on the organization. Time will tell. But I'm pretty damn confident that the issue at hand won't be how the Bulls' org was so mean to Eddy Curry about getting in shape that he resorted to diet pills.


----------



## rlucas4257

ViciousFlogging said:


> This is one of your biggest reaches of all time in trying to pin any and all blame on the organization. I find it hard to fathom that even you believe this one.
> 
> For one, even trying to blame the Bulls for wanting Curry to get in shape and actually setting a benchmark for him to reach is silly. What "bad lip" did he get? Public comments that they want him to get in better shape? Perish the thought!
> 
> For another, this "the Big Bad Bulls org. forced diet pills down poor naive Eddy Curry's throat by demanding that he hit a playing weight of 285 for traning camp" storyline will never get picked up by anyone, ever. Because it's laughable. And on top of that, playing at a slimmer weight all season, Eddy had his most consistent season of his pro career. So yeah, wanting him to play at that weight was a really malicious idea, huh?
> 
> You're a libertarian, right? Personal responsibility? If Eddy Curry thought the only way he could get to the desired weight was to take diet pills, that's on HIM, not Paxson and Skiles. That said, I haven't seen any definitive evidence that this is the case.
> 
> 
> This whole episode very well might have negative blowback on the organization. Time will tell. But I'm pretty damn confident that the issue at hand won't be how the Bulls' org was so mean to Eddy Curry about getting in shape that he resorted to diet pills.



I dont know where the diet pills thing came from and nor do I want to explore that even as a possibility. But what I will say is the issue of privacy and talking to the press so openly about it could have serious implications for this franchise. If there is any lesson for Pax to learn is to keep his mouth shut. He tends to speak openly with the press and in this case something got out that really hurt the club, a player, and put them in a situation with little leverage or alternative. I think Pax was absolutely right with the DNA test and I think his motives were kind, honest and caring. But thats not how the nationwide press and players are perceiving it. Paxs best course of action is to keep those things private and to stop talking so much to the press. He ought to call Krause and ask him about press management. Just about everything Pax does is telegraphed. He has been very fortunate up to this point (though telegraphing the Wade pick might have cost us, we will never know) but needs to shut his pie hole going forward. He seems like he likes to hear himself talk sometimes. Id rather him stop talking to the radio and tv and to get his dealings and intentions private. Just surprise us with the good, the bad or the ugly. But never leak things to the press and never lose leverage, ever again.


----------



## ViciousFlogging

rlucas4257 said:


> *I dont know where the diet pills thing came from and nor do I want to explore that even as a possibility. *But what I will say is the issue of privacy and talking to the press so openly about it could have serious implications for this franchise. If there is any lesson for Pax to learn is to keep his mouth shut. He tends to speak openly with the press and in this case something got out that really hurt the club, a player, and put them in a situation with little leverage or alternative. I think Pax was absolutely right with the DNA test and I think his motives were kind, honest and caring. But thats not how the nationwide press and players are perceiving it. Paxs best course of action is to keep those things private and to stop talking so much to the press. He ought to call Krause and ask him about press management. Just about everything Pax does is telegraphed. He has been very fortunate up to this point (though telegraphing the Wade pick might have cost us, we will never know) but needs to shut his pie hole going forward. He seems like he likes to hear himself talk sometimes. Id rather him stop talking to the radio and tv and to get his dealings and intentions private. Just surprise us with the good, the bad or the ugly. But never leak things to the press and never lose leverage, ever again.


This is mostly what I was responding to. The rest of your post, I agree with, but not to the same extent. I think there is a definite chance that the Bulls will suffer some negative effects from this drama, but I don't think it'll be some sort of permanent hindrance to getting FAs to consider us. Unlike Krause's summer of 2000, we have both the money AND a competitive team with a bright future to offer - with better ambassadors in Pax and Skiles. I don't think the whole privacy issue will linger for the long-term because Eddy was a special circumstance, but we'll see. I DO agree with you that Pax needs to be more judicious about what he tells the media. His honesty is nice and all, but there has to be a filter in place.


----------



## NYKBaller

well rookies cant refuse to go to your team


----------



## rlucas4257

ViciousFlogging said:


> This is mostly what I was responding to. The rest of your post, I agree with, but not to the same extent. I think there is a definite chance that the Bulls will suffer some negative effects from this drama, but I don't think it'll be some sort of permanent hindrance to getting FAs to consider us. Unlike Krause's summer of 2000, we have both the money AND a competitive team with a bright future to offer - with better ambassadors in Pax and Skiles. I don't think the whole privacy issue will linger for the long-term because Eddy was a special circumstance, but we'll see. I DO agree with you that Pax needs to be more judicious about what he tells the media. His honesty is nice and all, but there has to be a filter in place.



I think as an ambassador, Pax comes across as a likeable sort to players. Bryant, for instance, was impressed. But Skiles? I mean, he really is still disliked league wide. Sure he got some respect for the way the Bulls turned it around but I dont see people beating down the door to get to play for him. I hate bringing race into it, but I always felt that Orlando had 3 big edges in 2000. Weather, no state income tax, and a black coach. As a black man I can understand that. However, there are coaches who anyone would play for, Jackson and Brown, maybe Pops. But if its close and it comes down to Skiles vs Coach X, I am fairly certain Coach X will get the upperhand, unless we are talking about Googs or Penny or someone like that.


----------



## FanOfAll8472

rlucas4257 said:


> Pax backed himself into a corner and wasnt flexible enough to get himself out of it. And while I 100% agree with his desire for the DNA test and that he had no ulterior motives what can not be denied is that the situation that he publicly put out there wasnt good for the Chicago Bulls NOW or POSSIBLY NEXT YEAR IN FA. Regardless, Pax deserves the benefit of the doubt and will get it from me. But right now, my hunch, is that I think the Bulls will be far worse off this year, and possibly down the road, because of the way they handled this. To deal a young 5 who actually has a post game (how many of those are out there? 2? 3?) and not get back atleast 2 out of the following 3 (an unprotected #1, Channing Frye, Trevor Ariza) is terrible. The point is, the Bulls drew a line in the sand (though I am in agreeance with what they wanted), threatened to not play Curry and then set an artificial deadline and then get pushed into a corner by a far inferior GM in Thomas. Pax is a good GM but this was not a deal he wanted or should have or been forced to make and frankly still reeks of a rookie mistake. One of the reasons the Bulls offense looked so good last year at times was because of the open looks the wings and perimeter players got. Why did they get those looks? Because teams have been collapsing on Curry for years. Who is going to do that now? Michael Sweetney? Something tells me as a bit player for a terrible team in the Knicks that he wont show much in Chicago. Songailia is ahead of him in the order. But our inside O is going to be brutal. Its not Tysons game. Our guards cant finish around the bucket. Othella is ok but not great. Malik Allen? No. Sweetney? Maybe in stretches. Songailia is better on the J. The best hope is actually Luol Deng to develop a post game that can attract double teams to get our guys some looks. Our only double team threat just got traded to NYC. And it was mishandled in a big way.


While I agree with much of your post, I wonder, how does getting Frye or Ariza help the inside O? I would've really liked to acquire either or both, but if your concern is filling the low-post scoring void, Sweetney and Thomas are the best bets from the Knicks roster. Sweetney needs refinement on the aspects of his game other than scoring down low, but he definitely can put the ball in the basket down there. And I'm very intrigued by the different mismatches TT can create, plus he can stretch the defense.


----------



## Bolts

> well rookies cant refuse to go to your team


Really? Go ask little Stevie Francis.


----------



## spongyfungy

*Rebounds were part of the Curry's incentive-laden contract*

I just saw on the news that Eddy's contract offer included that if he bumped up his rebounding numbers, his contract could have been worth upwards to 70 million dollars. So his contract wasn't entirely based on his health and games played.

No new topic since all this is moot but someone from the front office was leaking the several offers Eddy Curry was given.


----------



## lgtwins

*Re: Rebounds were part of the Curry's incentive-laden contract*



spongyfungy said:


> I just saw on the news that Eddy's contract offer included that if he bumped up his rebounding numbers, his contract could have been worth upwards to 70 million dollars. So his contract wasn't entirely based on his health and games played.
> 
> No new topic since all this is moot but someone from the front office was leaking the several offers Eddy Curry was given.


It doesn't matter anyway. The anit-Paxon camp will simply say all these are smear job on Curry from Bulls camp. One will interpret any information based on his own stand on Paxon, not based on the factual matter.


----------



## Da Grinch

ViciousFlogging said:


> This is one of your biggest reaches of all time in trying to pin any and all blame on the organization. I find it hard to fathom that even you believe this one.
> 
> For one, even trying to blame the Bulls for wanting Curry to get in shape and actually setting a benchmark for him to reach is silly. What "bad lip" did he get? Public comments that they want him to get in better shape? Perish the thought!
> 
> For another, this "the Big Bad Bulls org. forced diet pills down poor naive Eddy Curry's throat by demanding that he hit a playing weight of 285 for traning camp" storyline will never get picked up by anyone, ever. Because it's laughable. And on top of that, playing at a slimmer weight all season, Eddy had his most consistent season of his pro career. So yeah, wanting him to play at that weight was a really malicious idea, huh?
> 
> You're a libertarian, right? Personal responsibility? If Eddy Curry thought the only way he could get to the desired weight was to take diet pills, that's on HIM, not Paxson and Skiles. That said, I haven't seen any definitive evidence that this is the case.
> 
> 
> This whole episode very well might have negative blowback on the organization. Time will tell. But I'm pretty damn confident that the issue at hand won't be how the Bulls' org was so mean to Eddy Curry about getting in shape that he resorted to diet pills.


VF i'm not so sure i'd easily dismiss this.

Curry may love chicago but one would have to assume his feelings about the bulls org. are significantly different.

do you think he is going to blame himself for this mess? i have my doubts ...and quite honestly i cant say i would think he's wrong , what franchise gets a 285 lbs manchild at 18 and then keeps him in the same state they got him.

i cant think of one highschooler to pro who didn't get significantly bigger after a few years ....except curry , he's growing into adulthood his body should be maturing , yet he gets no bigger and the bulls had him come in last season at 285 the same weight he started his career as and apparently he to take some extreme measures to get there . maybe its due to eddy's laziness but i'm thinking that genetics may have also had its hand in it too , in a good way.

he was billed as the next shaq but he's skinny at 285 , he looks more like luol deng than shaq oneal at that weight, i dont understand why a team would take a guy at a position where size and weight are important but keep him as small as possible, i cant think of a post player straight from the preps who after 4 years didn't gain at least 20 lbs ...except eddy.

i'm not saying it should be the end all, be all reason players stay away , because i dont think so , but i think it will haunt us at least a bit.


----------



## bullsville

rlucas4257 said:


> *I dont know where the diet pills thing came from and nor do I want to explore that even as a possibility*. But what I will say is the issue of privacy and talking to the press so openly about it could have serious implications for this franchise. If there is any lesson for Pax to learn is to keep his mouth shut. He tends to speak openly with the press and in this case something got out that really hurt the club, a player, and put them in a situation with little leverage or alternative. I think Pax was absolutely right with the DNA test and I think his motives were kind, honest and caring. But thats not how the nationwide press and players are perceiving it. Paxs best course of action is to keep those things private and to stop talking so much to the press. He ought to call Krause and ask him about press management. Just about everything Pax does is telegraphed. He has been very fortunate up to this point (though telegraphing the Wade pick might have cost us, we will never know) but needs to shut his pie hole going forward. He seems like he likes to hear himself talk sometimes. Id rather him stop talking to the radio and tv and to get his dealings and intentions private. Just surprise us with the good, the bad or the ugly. But never leak things to the press and never lose leverage, ever again.


The "diet pills thing" came from Dr Cannom, the doctor who cleared Eddy to play. He came right out and said that Eddy's irregular heartbeat was caused by a "magnesium deficiency and supplements containing caffeine".

The Bulls didn't make that up, that was straight from one of the doctors who cleared Eddy to play.


----------



## Philomath

Somebody was leaking SOMETHING from the front office. It seems that nearly every rumor in this mess was eventually borne out, including a trade that from all appearances went down exactly the way it was portrayed online and in the paper, down to Pax's crush on the infamous David Lee. After all the ludicrous trades that Pax was alleged to have entertained in the past couple of years by various people and media outlets, causing uproar and gnashing of teeth hereabouts, that all ended up to be complete fantasy - why is the front office suddenly leakier than the 17th Street levee?


----------



## Salvaged Ship

Boy, if Curry does drop dead or have heart issues and retires, all those Pax critics will end up changing their tune.

Obviously Isiah is willing to take a gamble with someone else's money that Curry is not only going to be OK but somehow fill this potential he has not come close to yet. I do believe Paxson's biggest worry was Curry's long term health, and he didn't want to authorize him returning to the court. Also didn't want to risk all that cap space and team future on a guy who with no health issues is still not worth 10 mil a year for what he contributes to the win/loss column. 

Why should we just give the kid the money? Because we should take care of him financially no matter what? That 400,000 a year for life deal was pretty good. Yeah, just give the kid 50 mil and screw the future of the franchise if he has to retire. Don't worry he can't get insured. Don't worry that he isn't that good anyway. 400,000 a year for life isn't enough if he can't play. You should just give the poor kid 50 mil because he is nice. 

Pax did the right thing, everyone will see in time. In a few years Isiah will be bagging groceries, Curry will either be retired or endlessly booed because NY thinks he should be Shaq, and their future is down the tubes because they have no cap space due to Isiah signing all these individual athletes who can'y seem to win despite their individual talent.

So people really see a team with Crawford and Curry in the starting 5 eventually reaching the promised land? 

Get your Pepto Bismol ready, Larry Brown.


----------



## transplant

Bump.

So much of what I read here deals with decisions made a while ago. Trading Curry (early October 2005) may be the biggest in the past few years. I had some time to kill and decided to do some archival work. I may do some more. If nothing else, it will give newer posters a clear idea of what our more long-standing and prolific posters thought about things at the time. I have to admit that most of the posters have remained true to their character...critics now were critics then...defenders now were defenders then.

It's a VERY long thread. The best stuff starts at about page 25.


----------



## eymang

Gotta love bbb.net, no thread is ever dead.

I remember that night, not registered here, but it was bizarre. Pax all angry in the press conference, making me worry he got ripped off big time. Then hearing we gave up AD too, we just lost our frontcourt! Still waiting for that jackpot from that last pick. KG? College stud? Funny to go back and read the people salivate over the Knicks roster and Isiah.


----------



## DaBullz

c p 9 said:


> PG- Crawford
> SG- Rose
> SF- Artest
> PF- Brand
> C- Miller
> 6th- Marshall
> 7th- Curry
> 
> Damn straight they could.


Wow. Just wow.


----------



## T.Shock

DaBullz said:


> Wow. Just wow.


How bad do Jerry Krause's last two years look? Dealing away Artest and Miller for what Jalen Rose and Travis Best. Jesus that looks horrible. Brand for Chandler looks equally as horrible.


----------



## kukoc4ever

T.Shock said:


> How bad do Jerry Krause's last two years look? Dealing away Artest and Miller


You would have rather Artest remained a Bull?


----------



## BG7

They teach about Eddy Curry in biology classes now. There are 2 situations given for the negatives of genetic screening.

1. They look at the genetic code, and will raise your insurance rates depending on what they dig up.

2. Employment discrimination.

Only the first example didn't have an actual example for it, but #2, did have an example for it, exactly 1, and it was the Eddy Curry situation.

Isn't it sad that are organization is in the example for the negative of genetic screening? I found it pretty sad.


----------



## eymang

Well yeah, but proffesional athlete is a little different than your average job


----------



## BG7

eymang said:


> Well yeah, but proffesional athlete is a little different than your average job


No. Because say the employer finds out you have say a heart problem. They are going to have to pay more in health insurance down the road for the person with the heart problem.

Paxson treaded in bad water, he is pretty much the first jerk employer in the world to pull out the DNA test. He really is a scummy person for that. He is the scum of the world. He set the precedent for everyone else. He was the first, he was the idiot that tried to pull that crap.


----------

