# Artest Out For Season



## StephenJackson (Oct 28, 2004)

THIS JUST IN!!!!

ARTEST OUT FOR THE SEASON!

STEPHEN JACKSON OUT FOR 30 GAMES

JERMAINE OUT FOR 25!!


COMPLETE ****ING BULL****


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## Yao Mania (Aug 4, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>StephenJackson</b>!
> THIS JUST IN!!!!
> 
> ARTEST OUT FOR THE SEASON!
> ...


 I thought it was 30, 20, and 20??


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

A link would have been good, but apparently, this is actually happening.


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## Dragnsmke1 (Jul 29, 2002)

The only suspension should have been Steven Jackson for 5 games...


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## Yao Mania (Aug 4, 2003)

StephenJackson is a very reliable poster

and go to ESPN.com right now, it's on the top right corner, BREAKING NEWS..... wow


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>StephenJackson</b>!
> THIS JUST IN!!!!
> 
> ARTEST OUT FOR THE SEASON!
> ...




that would be about right


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## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

It's true, it's on the ESPN frontpage.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Well if this is true, I just might not watch NBA basketball for the rest of the season. What a ****in disgrace, the League Office is. 

Fans are getting out of control and the worst those mofos are going to get is a slap on the wrist.

Sad day for the NBA. :nonono:


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## rock747 (Aug 3, 2004)

YEah its true anthony Johnson is out for like 5 games too ESPN just reported it News Conference at 6:30.

It's complete bull****, but i bet Stern is happy, now maybe a big market team can win the championship. Way to go Stern way to **** up the Pacers entire season

Ben Wallace reacted to a ****in soft foul, he caused all this and he got 6 games. 4 other players were suspended for leaving the bench.


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

The article was very poorly written and was obviously written by an Artest-hater. You can tell by the final statement:



> Artest also once grabbed a television camera and smashed it to the ground after a loss to the Knicks two years ago.


At least I can get to see our scrubs play A LOT this year. I have 2 hours of footage on tape, and didn't see AJ do anything wrong; did anyone see anything I didn't?


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> Well if this is true, I just might not watch NBA basketball for the rest of the season. What a ****in disgrace, the League Office is.
> 
> Fans are getting out of control and the worst those mofos are going to get is a slap on the wrist.
> ...


who's going to give us all that wonderful basketball wisdom, dont leave.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> Well if this is true, I just might not watch NBA basketball for the rest of the season. What a ****in disgrace, the League Office is.
> 
> Fans are getting out of control and the worst those mofos are going to get is a slap on the wrist.
> ...


Exactly what I was thinking.


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## Fenway (Sep 3, 2004)

At first I thought your team should tank the season. Now I am thinking that the whole Indiana organization should refuse to play any games this season and boycott for the year.


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## Gonzo (Oct 14, 2004)

Someone start a **** STERN FANCLUB!!


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## Philo (Feb 13, 2003)

Tank the season, get the #1 pick, win the title in 2006, bodyslam Stern while accepting t......sorry about that...


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## rock747 (Aug 3, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Fenway</b>!
> At first I thought your team should tank the season. Now I am thinking that the whole Indiana organization should refuse to play any games this season and boycott for the year.


Stern would love that


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

It's not that the penalties are too bad. I can see Artest getting suspended for the year. I really can. And in the back of my mind, if the Pacers were in the playoffs, I can see how people would be turned off to him playing in an NBA finals, should the Pacers advance that far.

However, what this shows me, is that Stern more than likely will not come down on the Pistons organization for their shoddy security and levy stiff penalties against them, for their fans. 

If he doesn't, I can't watch with as much renewed vigor. Fan behavior is getting worse and worse and even with Artest's suspension, this is the chance to send a message that unruly behavior by fans will not be tolerated. I don't care if Security roughs the fans up, but it's time to take a stand against that. 

The NBA also needs to darken the stands. Now you can see the people who are insulting you. If you darken the stands and illuminate the court only, you take the faces off of the insults. The arena should be lit up fully during the beginning, in between quarters, halftime and the end of the game.


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

PM me to join the Bring Back Artest Club!


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## RP McMurphy (Jul 17, 2003)

Wouldn't 30 games have been long enough to send the message that going into the stands isn't acceptable? Did David Stern really have to ruin our season just to make a point?

Well, I don't care, because for as long as David Stern is commissioner, I'm done being an NBA fan. For years, he's been looking for a way to "solve" all the NBA's PR problems by making an example of a player. This was his chance, and dammit, he took it.

Unless action is taken against the Detroit fans, he just told all the trailer trash fans of the world that there are no limits on what fans can do in an NBA stadium. Making fun of players' dead relatives, pouring beer on them, throwing chairs at them, you name it, it's all good.

To all the posters I've come across on BBB.net, you guys are awesome and I've learned a lot from you, and you've made being a basketball fan more fun for me since I found this message board, but as I don't consider myself a basketball fan now, I won't be posting here anymore.


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## Yao Mania (Aug 4, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>RP McMurphy</b>!
> Wouldn't 30 games have been long enough to send the message that going into the stands isn't acceptable? Did David Stern really have to ruin our season just to make a point?
> 
> Well, I don't care, because for as long as David Stern is commissioner, I'm done being an NBA fan. For years, he's been looking for a way to "solve" all the NBA's PR problems by making an example of a player. This was his chance, and dammit, he took it.
> ...


It sucks seeing you go like that RP... I hope u'll change your mind.


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## StephenJackson (Oct 28, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>RP McMurphy</b>!
> 
> To all the posters I've come across on BBB.net, you guys are awesome and I've learned a lot from you, and you've made being a basketball fan more fun for me since I found this message board, but as I don't consider myself a basketball fan now, I won't be posting here anymore.


Well, I haven't really known you for that long as I've just joined, but it is a shame that it has had to come down to this. I am also greatly hurt as a basketball fan and don't know if I will ever fully recover.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>RP McMurphy</b>!
> Unless action is taken against the Detroit fans, he just told all the trailer trash fans of the world that there are no limits on what fans can do in an NBA stadium.


Can't insult fan bases...


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>RP McMurphy</b>!
> To all the posters I've come across on BBB.net, you guys are awesome and I've learned a lot from you, and you've made being a basketball fan more fun for me since I found this message board, but as I don't consider myself a basketball fan now, I won't be posting here anymore.


You'll be back.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

I totally understand what RP is saying. It's disgusting, what Stern has done to the NBA, all the while cowtowing to his God Michael Jordan and greed. 

The league is getting closer to losing me, until he is gone.


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## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>GB</b>!
> Can't insult fan bases...


he didn't. reread his post.

these suspensions really piss me off. they are complete bull****. i can accept these as legit is stern makes the pistons play the rest of their home games with no fans. if artest is out for the season, so should the pistons fans. but i know that won't happen.


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## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rocketeer</b>!
> 
> he didn't. reread his post.
> 
> these suspensions really piss me off. they are complete bull****. i can accept these as legit is stern makes the pistons play the rest of their home games with no fans. if artest is out for the season, so should the pistons fans. but i know that won't happen.


So play the rest of our home games with no fans, because of the actions of a number of fans. So discipline the whole because of a few? By that logic all the Pacers players should be out for the season. That makes little sense.


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## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>DetBNyce</b>!
> So play the rest of our home games with no fans, because of the actions of a number of fans. So discipline the whole because of a few? By that logic all the Pacers players should be out for the season. That makes little sense.


artest is out for the season. jackson is out for almost half and oneal is out for a third of what's left.

if the fans are going to be dumbasses, they shouldn't be there. and it wasn't just a few fans that were involved. with all the cups, trash, even a chair, and everything else being thrown, it was much more than just a few fans.

i'm not saying they should make them play without fans and that it would be the right thing, but if it is the correct punishment for artest to be out for the year, i think the correct punishment would be the same for the pistons and their fans having no fans for the rest of the year.


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## MLKG (Aug 25, 2003)

Whoa whoa whoa whoa.

Are we forgeting here what actually happened?

Ron Artest attacked a fan. He ATTACKED a fan. He didn't defend himself against anything, he savagely assaulted a fan.

What did you THINK was going to happen?


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## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rocketeer</b>!
> 
> artest is out for the season. jackson is out for almost half and oneal is out for a third of what's left.
> 
> ...


I don't mean a few fans were involved. I mean a few fans compared to Piston fans in Michigan as a whole. I have Piston tickets to go to a game later in the year, so you're telling me I shouldn't be able to go because of a couple jackasses. You're punishing fans that had nothing to do with the fighting, beer throwing, etc. Ban the guilty fans -- fine, but you can't ban all of us for the whole year. Like I said, using this logic the all the Pacersshould be suspended for the year because they are Pacers. Guilty by association.


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## rock747 (Aug 3, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>DetBNyce</b>!
> 
> 
> So play the rest of our home games with no fans, because of the actions of a number of fans. So discipline the whole because of a few? By that logic all the Pacers players should be out for the season. That makes little sense.


I actually wouldn't give a **** at this point. We pretty much are out of the season. Thanks to Mr. Big Market Stern.


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## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>DetBNyce</b>!
> I don't mean a few fans were involved. I mean a few fans compared to Piston fans in Michigan as a whole. I have Piston tickets to go to a game later in the year, so you're telling me I shouldn't be able to go because of a couple jackasses. You're punishing fans that had nothing to do with the fighting, beer throwing, etc. Ban the guilty fans -- fine, but you can't ban all of us for the whole year. Like I said, using this logic the all the Pacersshould be suspended for the year because they are Pacers. Guilty by association.


those fans involved definately should be gone and not allowed to ever come back. but there are plenty of more pistons fans to make up for that and still have lots of fans at games. shouldn't the nba be giving some punishment to the pistons organization for allowing a situation like that to happen? not being able to control their fans and keep them from hitting players with things on the court and being unable to keep the fans off the court. something has to happen to the pistons organization more than a 6 game suspension to ben wallace.


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## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mike luvs KG</b>!
> Whoa whoa whoa whoa.
> 
> Are we forgeting here what actually happened?
> ...


woah woah woah woah.

are you forgetting what happened?

ben wallace tried to start a fight with artest. artest stepped away from that and went to the scorer's table. he was then hit in the face with a beer. only after that did artest go into the stands and he didn't throw a punch until he was being hit with more beer and other things. fans attacked artest, artest attacked fans. 

what do you think is going to happen when fans threw beer in a player's face in a situation like that?


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## artestinsley (Nov 16, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Pacers Fan</b>!
> The article was very poorly written and was obviously written by an Artest-hater. You can tell by the final statement:
> 
> 
> ...


Be4 JO KO that fatty, AJ hitted him. What a team player, I'll back him! AJ was in yellow clothes I guess. I never regret for what our heros had done! Proud for them!!!


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mike luvs KG</b>!
> Ron Artest attacked a fan. He ATTACKED a fan. He didn't defend himself against anything, he savagely assaulted a fan.


Savagely assaulting a fan is pushing his head on the floor?


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## nmuman (Nov 26, 2003)

Excellent news, to bad Artest didn't get banned forever.


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## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rocketeer</b>!
> 
> those fans involved definately should be gone and not allowed to ever come back. but there are plenty of more pistons fans to make up for that and still have lots of fans at games. shouldn't the nba be giving some punishment to the pistons organization for allowing a situation like that to happen? not being able to control their fans and keep them from hitting players with things on the court and being unable to keep the fans off the court. something has to happen to the pistons organization more than a 6 game suspension to ben wallace.


Ok, so fine the Pistons. But making them play in empty stadiums for the rest of the year is ridiculous. The only thing I've heard worse is taking away draft picks.


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## nmuman (Nov 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>rocketeer</b>!
> 
> woah woah woah woah.
> 
> ...


Fixed your post.


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## StephenJackson (Oct 28, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>nmuman</b>!
> Excellent news, to bad Artest didn't get banned forever.


Shut the F up, stop trolling and stop wasting our time.


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## MLKG (Aug 25, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>rocketeer</b>!
> 
> woah woah woah woah.
> 
> ...


It doesn't matter what the fans did first. Ron attacked a fan. It's cut and dry for David Stern.

If you want to thank someone for your season being done thank Ron Artest, Jermaine O'Neal, and Stephen Jackson.

I'm very dissapointed that not a single Pacers fan has stepped up and said what their players did was wrong and they are dissapointed in them. It's just been excuse after excuse after excuse.


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## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>nmuman</b>!
> Fixed your post.


oh so he is a coward for not fighting, but when he does fight he is a thug?

i understand now. no matter what artest does it's the wrong thing.


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## Midnight_Marauder (Dec 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Mike luvs KG</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Apparently you havent read a single one of my posts.....whatever....I dont care.....


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## StephenJackson (Oct 28, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>rocketeer</b>!
> 
> oh so he is a coward for not fighting, but when he does fight he is a thug?
> 
> i understand now. no matter what artest does it's the wrong thing.


Seems to be the case. I mean he was actually trying to STAY OUT of the trouble.


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## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mike luvs KG</b>!
> It doesn't matter what the fans did first. Ron attacked a fan. It's cut and dry for David Stern.
> 
> If you want to thank someone for your season being done thank Ron Artest, Jermaine O'Neal, and Stephen Jackson.
> ...


my season? i'm not a pacers fan. i'm a rockets fan. this isn't about the pacers. this is about bull**** suspensions.

yes it does matter what the fans did first. if artest just attacked fans for no reason, he should be in jail. but it wasn't some unprovocated attack. he went into the fans after something the fans did. he didn't start trying to swing until after things the fans did. everything artest did was a reaction to something the fans did first.


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## StephenJackson (Oct 28, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>rocketeer</b>!
> 
> my season? i'm not a pacers fan. i'm a rockets fan. this isn't about the pacers. this is about bull**** suspensions.
> 
> yes it does matter what the fans did first. if artest just attacked fans for no reason, he should be in jail. but it wasn't some unprovocated attack. he went into the fans after something the fans did. he didn't start trying to swing until after things the fans did. everything artest did was a reaction to something the fans did first.



Yes, being a Criminal Justice Major....I know for a fact that everything that Ron Artest did was justified. He was minding his business, and he was assaulted. Regardless of what the cause of the assault(the cup of beer), he was assaulted, and therefore his actions were justified. I kind of wish Stern wasn't looking at this whole incident through his one-dimensioned tube.


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## MillerTime (Jul 6, 2003)

I feel exactly like RP. 

What is posted was something i was going to post.

Only difference is, i'm still debating if i will be watching the NBA again this season.


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## MLKG (Aug 25, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>StephenJackson</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, being a Criminal Justice Major....I know for a fact that everything that Ron Artest did was justified. He was minding his business, and he was assaulted. Regardless of what the cause of the assault(the cup of beer), he was assaulted, and therefore his actions were justified. I kind of wish Stern wasn't looking at this whole incident through his one-dimensioned tube.


Well I'm a criminal justice guy too and obviously you don't go to class enough because to claim self defense you have to presently be in danger.

The fan who threw the cup presented no clear and present danger to Ron. 

And the guy Ron attacked wasn't even the same guy who threw the cup so the self defense thing isn't even applicable.

And Reisse, I didn't see you post that so I apologize.


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## Midnight_Marauder (Dec 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Mike luvs KG</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> And Reisse, I didn't see you post that so I apologize.


No hard feelings dude....I know what Artest did was out of line......it upsets me that he did it and it upsets me even more that this season is ruined....I enjoy having a good relationship with the Piston posters.....well all besides one


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## StephenJackson (Oct 28, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Mike luvs KG</b>!
> 
> 
> Well I'm a criminal justice guy too and obviously you don't go to class enough because to claim self defense you have to presently be in danger.
> ...


It doesn't matter. He was assaulted, how is one to know when danger is present? The only rationale for it is if the person truly believes he is in danger. If someone throws a rock at me from 10 feet away, I see that man as a threat. It doesn't matter the source of the assault. If Artest felt that his safety was at stake while unruley fans were throwing things at him and shouting at him, then he has the right to defend himself. And let me also remind you that it wasn't just a 'cup', it was an almost FULL cup of beer that hit him square in the face from point blank range. Once that initial assault happens, how is Ron to know that it is going to stop and that he was no longer in danger? He felt that he had to defend himself, and therefore he did. Completely acceptable.


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## rock747 (Aug 3, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>nmuman</b>!
> Terrible news, to bad Artest got banned, he didn't deserves it. I am a huge fan and hope the best for him.





> Originally posted by <b>nmuman</b>!Fixed your post.



and i fixed yours you crazy troll. 
:upset:


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## PacersguyUSA (Sep 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rock747</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


:laugh:


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## adomis82 (Aug 30, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>StephenJackson</b>!
> 
> 
> It doesn't matter. He was assaulted, how is one to know when danger is present? The only rationale for it is if the person truly believes he is in danger. If someone throws a rock at me from 10 feet away, I see that man as a threat. It doesn't matter the source of the assault. If Artest felt that his safety was at stake while unruley fans were throwing things at him and shouting at him, then he has the right to defend himself. And let me also remind you that it wasn't just a 'cup', it was an almost FULL cup of beer that hit him square in the face from point blank range. Once that initial assault happens, how is Ron to know that it is going to stop and that he was no longer in danger? He felt that he had to defend himself, and therefore he did. Completely acceptable.



Why do you equate getting hit with a plastic cup the same as being hit with a ROCK?

Why doesn't anyone realize that he he attacked the wrong guy?

Why doesn't anyone realize that Stephen Jackson was walking around clinching his fists waiting to fight anyone? and he ended up attacking someone who throw a beer at Artets attacking the wrong guy


BOTTOM LINE

Artest was in DETROIT............DETROIT...........Ben Wallace is such a important ICON in Detroit. And whatever you guys keep telling yourselves.....realize this....

Hitting Ben Wallace with that unintentional foul and then Ben reacting the way he did raised the level of intensity of the whole Palace and when Artest layed down on the scorers table it was taken as being very offensive and disrespectful to the fans in the palace (totally regardless of what his intentions were), you guys don't think it was and keep telling yourself that he was trying to cool everthing down but that was not what it was doing and Artest should have known better. Getting hit with that cup was bound to happen. Of course it was wrong to throw a cup but after what just happen and disrespecting the fans in the Palace is ASKING for it. 

The guy throwing the cup is wrong, Artest reacting the way he did after starting what he did was wrong. 

Seriously you guys must be making quite an attempt not realize the things i've just told you. Because it's true and it's very important to the interperation of all of this.



About the entire year suspension I couldn't see it any other way. The way Artest saw nothing wrong with taking a month off illustrates huge disrespect in the NBA. Totally neglecting the fact that you play an 82 game season which dictates your playoff position. And then after the last incident which should have been handled better by all the Pacers. There was no other option for David Stern.


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## adomis82 (Aug 30, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>StephenJackson</b>!
> 
> 1.) And let me also remind you that it wasn't just a 'cup', it was an almost FULL cup of beer that hit him square in the face from point blank range.
> 
> ...



1) WOW did you just say that

You're a professional who got hit with "an almost FULL cup of beer that hit him square in the face from point blank range:laugh: " which was actually not a FULL cup of beer and wasen't and POINT blank range and didn't hit him in the face (chin/neck).


2) He's a professional, I think he should make an attempt at analyizing the situation that he was adding too.


Throwing the cup was wrong and that guy deserves to be thrown out of games from the NBA or whatever. But Artest's reaction was serious overreaction and David Stern letting that go unpunished is madness


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## StephenJackson (Oct 28, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>adomis82</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you equate getting hit with a plastic cup the same as being hit with a ROCK?


I was saying that to underline that under the definition of assault, it doesn't matter if it is a rock, a cup of beer, or a fist. Any form of assault justifies self-defense, and that is that.


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## HippieHair33 (Jul 16, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Mike luvs KG</b>!
> 
> 
> It doesn't matter what the fans did first. Ron attacked a fan. It's cut and dry for David Stern.
> ...


you want one pacer fan to step out and say that what the pacer players did was wrong? well here i am, i'll admit it, morally, what they did was wrong, the bible says that an eye for an eye leaves everyone blind or whatever...i'm a ****ing hippie for christ's sake, i know it wasnt right. WHAT JO, JAX, AND ARTEST DID WAS WRONG, BUT, and there IS a but. the but is that in a little place called REALITY sometimes what is right isnt what is going to happen. honestly, anybody in that situation would have done the same thing as artest and any loyal teammate would have jumped in and defended him.

the fans are the ones to blame.

big market stern knows indiana is a threat and hates ron artest. he loves that he can make an example out of artest AND end the pacers chances of winning this year ALL AT THE SAME TIME! he HAS to be the worst commisioner in the history of this league.

i will continue to support our team, however, NOT DAVID STERN! 

i hope that the nba players, coaches, staff, and all non biased fans will see what stern is doing to this league and put an end to it! 

GO PACERS!


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## adomis82 (Aug 30, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>HippieHair33</b>!
> the but is that in a little place called REALITY sometimes what is right isnt what is going to happen. honestly, anybody in that situation would have done the same thing as artest and any loyal teammate would have jumped in and defended him.
> 
> 
> GO PACERS!



That's why we have rules Hippie and that's why those things don't get out of control because people exercise restraint


Thought you knew?


Detroit was not the place to cheapshot on ICON and lay on a table clowning it......


:fightmusic:


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## HippieHair33 (Jul 16, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>adomis82</b>!
> 
> 
> Detroit was not the place to cheapshot on ICON and lay on a table clowning it......
> ...


funny, the only cheapshot i saw was a bunch of rish, drunken ******** throwing random objects at respectable people who actually made something of themselves.


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## StraylightRunner (Aug 14, 2003)

All I have to say is:

Vote Artest and JO onto the All-Star team.


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## adomis82 (Aug 30, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>HippieHair33</b>!
> 
> 
> funny, the only cheapshot i saw was a bunch of rish, drunken ******** throwing random objects at respectable people who actually made something of themselves.




what is rish?

Drunken ******** huh? Remember Ron Artest attacked someone who was HOLDING A BEER IN HIS ****ING HANDS

I'm amazing you can tell who has made something of themselves and who has not by looking.....remember NBA tickets aren't cheap..


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## whiterhino (Jun 15, 2003)

*Dissapointed In Pacers Fans*

I've seen the footage, it's a disgrace. I came on here because I wanted to see how horrified the Pacers faithful was with the guys on their team and instead I'm HORRIFIED to see most of you defending them.
I'll tell you what, I love the Celts but if guys on the Celts acted like the Pacers did Friday night I'd want them out of the league for good, never mind a season or 30 or 25 games. It's a disgrace, their is no excuse for it. Fans get unruly, it's not right but it happens. Tell security and have them removed, they are professionals, getting paid millions to be professionals and that was NOT professional, it was damn right scary.
The saddest thing I saw out of the whole thing was a little boy about 10 or 11 years old who was about 2 rows below the fighting, he was holding onto his Dad and crying his eyes out because he was terrified. The players on the Pacers scared him. That just wrong and sick. Artest should be banned for life and Jackson was just as bad, he should have been out for the season. If these were guys on the Celts I'd say the same because that is the RIGHT thing to say. :no:


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## ian (Jun 4, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>StephenJackson</b>!
> 
> 
> I was saying that to underline that under the definition of assault, it doesn't matter if it is a rock, a cup of beer, or a fist. Any form of assault justifies self-defense, and that is that.


Right, if Artest was hit with a pebble he could go into the stands and rip the guys head off.

Start attending class.


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## StephenJackson (Oct 28, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>ian</b>!
> 
> 
> Right, if Artest was hit with a pebble he could go into the stands and rip the guys head off.
> ...


Well a pebble is taking it to the extreme. And would you people stop telling me to attend class? Did you not see the *cop* that was interviewed directly after the incident on ESPN? He said the exact thing that I am saying right now, that Ron Artest was assualted when the cup of beer was thrown at him, and that he was justified by going into the stands and defending himself. Nobody said anything about Artest 'ripping guys heads off' if I recall he only really went after that one guy and just wrestled him down. He also threw that punch at the guy on the court, but at that point, the guy was in a place that he clearly wasn't supposed to be, and he was approaching Artest, and Artest had a very sensible reason to believe that the guy posed a threat to him, as any one of those guys could've been armed.


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## adomis82 (Aug 30, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>StephenJackson</b>!
> 
> 
> Well a pebble is taking it to the extreme. And would you people stop telling me to attend class? Did you not see the *cop* that was interviewed directly after the incident on ESPN? He said the exact thing that I am saying right now, that Ron Artest was assualted when the cup of beer was thrown at him, and that he was justified by going into the stands and defending himself. Nobody said anything about Artest 'ripping guys heads off' if I recall he only really went after that one guy and just wrestled him down. He also threw that punch at the guy on the court, but at that point, the guy was in a place that he clearly wasn't supposed to be, and he was approaching Artest, and for Artest had a very sensible reason to believe that the guy posed a threat to him, as any one of those guys could've been armed.



A pebble extreme?


pebble=plastic cup



The guy posed a threat??? He had his drink in his hands?? Sensible reason to believe he posed a threat??


I find it hard to believe that you really believe that?? Which you might.....but I hope you can see reason to believe otherwise


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## StephenJackson (Oct 28, 2004)

Look, you can keep minimizing the plastic cup. But the truth is that it wasn't just a plastic cup. There was beer, there was ice. It was thrown in close proximity. It was also the action that the beer was thrown on him.


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## ian (Jun 4, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>StephenJackson</b>!
> 
> 
> Well a pebble is taking it to the extreme. And would you people stop telling me to attend class? Did you not see the *cop* that was interviewed directly after the incident on ESPN? He said the exact thing that I am saying right now, that Ron Artest was assualted when the cup of beer was thrown at him, and that he was justified by going into the stands and defending himself. Nobody said anything about Artest 'ripping guys heads off' if I recall he only really went after that one guy and just wrestled him down. He also threw that punch at the guy on the court, but at that point, the guy was in a place that he clearly wasn't supposed to be, and he was approaching Artest, and Artest had a very sensible reason to believe that the guy posed a threat to him, as any one of those guys could've been armed.


I've asked lawyers and they've said it isn't justified by Artest, in a court of law. Michael Wilbon's latest column in the Washington Post quoted a lawyer saying the same thing.


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## StephenJackson (Oct 28, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>ian</b>!
> 
> 
> I've asked lawyers and they've said it isn't justified by Artest, in a court of law. Michael Wilbon's latest column in the Washington Post quoted a lawyer saying the same thing.


Just out of curiosity...these lawyers that you've talked to, are they prosecutors or defense attorneys? Because I will put money down that any partially compitent Defense Attorney could get Ron Artest out of this jam.


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## rellim (Nov 12, 2002)

Reality is, if you don't want to deal with an aggressive reation. Don't throw S**t at people, period.

You can't thow a drink and a man's face and then want to dictate how THAT MAN reacts to it. 

The Detroit fans in this melee were a bunch of cowards. Chuck and duck.


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## StephenJackson (Oct 28, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>rellim</b>!
> Reality is, if you don't want to deal with an aggressive reation. Don't throw S**t at people, period.
> 
> You can't thow a drink and a man's face and then want to dictate how THAT MAN reacts to it.
> ...


Seriously, they were treating it as if Artest was a tiget in a cage at the zoo and they were just poking him with a stick. I would love to see any of them do something like that to Artest in the street...they wouldn't. A big pack of cowards.


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## jcs83md (Jun 9, 2003)

Artest and Jackson may be basketball players, but they are also criminals.

I'm interested to hear some argumentation on Stephen Jackson's behalf. Since he definitely was not assaulted, how do you defend him not receiving a season-long ban or a permanent one?

Oh.. and to chip into the argument of whether or not Artest exercised self-defense? He didn't. You can't use arithmetic and say well Fan's Assault Minus Artest's Assault = 0 therefore self defense. Doesn't work that way.

Artest's force was nowhere close to justifiable. He got struck with a little cup by a person that was nowhere near his size and the incident was done with by the time he got into the stands and attacked THE WRONG PERSON.

Stop trying to defend oversized thugs that had no right to do what they did. They are players on your favorite team, I understand that but there's no excuse for what they did.


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## Doggpound (Nov 1, 2002)

jcs83md----It's hard not to be defensive when your players are the only ones getting punished for something that a lot of people were responsible for. I think it's the timing more than anything. I'm hoping there is severe punishment forthcoming for the other involved, but until then the Pacers players are the scapegoats for a bad situation. Yes, they were out of line and deserve to get punished, but not only them which is how it appears now. And no, Wallace's six game suspension isn't enough from the Palace/Pistons side .


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## jcs83md (Jun 9, 2003)

Wallace did over-react, but he didnt even hit Artest with a closed fist. Yeah, he continued to throw things and mouth off but no real physicality. I think you have to break this altercation apart from what happened after Artest was hit with the cup. If you do that, does he even deserve the punishment he got? Other than that, I'm not sure how much the other Pistons did... As for Ben especially, you can't jump back in time, blame him for the huge melee and say its justifiable to increase his punishment.

I mean... If I borrowed your car and returned it to you without gas, you took a bus the next morning to goto work and the bus wrecks, should I be charged with manslaughter?

I believe the punishment for Artest may be on the severe side, but definitely reasonable. Pacers fans should be thankful that O'Neal didn't receive the same and Stephen Jackson is even allowed to be in the league. What he did was simply ridiculous and as far as I'm concerned should be banished permanently.


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## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>jcs83md</b>!
> Artest and Jackson may be basketball players, but they are also criminals.
> 
> I'm interested to hear some argumentation on Stephen Jackson's behalf. Since he definitely was not assaulted, how do you defend him not receiving a season-long ban or a permanent one?
> ...


stephen jackson went into the stands. artest was being restrained and a fan that wasn't involved threw a full beer into artest's face from a couple of feet away. then jackson hit the guy. it's not that hard to defend the action. artest was being held back, and the guy does more stuff to him. is it really that hard to understand?

no they aren't just a bunch of oversized thugs. and a lot of the people defending them or that are against the suspensions aren't pacers fans. they deserve to be punished but there are reasons for what they did and they are pretty easy to see.


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## jcs83md (Jun 9, 2003)

> stephen jackson went into the stands. artest was being restrained and a fan that wasn't involved threw a full beer into artest's face from a couple of feet away. then jackson hit the guy. it's not that hard to defend the action. artest was being held back, and the guy does more stuff to him. is it really that hard to understand?


I'm not sure that was the guy who threw the beer... but if you say so. So you're really 18 and think thats Ok? I fear all of our futures if its ok to physically harm someone because you got hit with a little liquid. Oh, and wouldnt you do "more stuff" to someone if they are a foot taller than you ready to rip your head off for something you didn't even do in the first place?




> no they aren't just a bunch of oversized thugs. and a lot of the people defending them or that are against the suspensions aren't pacers fans. they deserve to be punished but there are reasons for what they did and they are pretty easy to see.


Well thats opinion but I think actions speak for themselves and they are rather large men so the term "oversized thug" does seem to apply here.

Whatever the case may be they are millionaires and are expected to act like it. They didn't, so they got punished. I guess some people forget its a privilege they earn exorbitant amounts of money TO PLAY A GAME for a living.


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## StephenJackson (Oct 28, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>rocketeer</b>!
> 
> stephen jackson went into the stands. artest was being restrained and a fan that wasn't involved threw a full beer into artest's face from a couple of feet away. then jackson hit the guy. it's not that hard to defend the action. artest was being held back, and the guy does more stuff to him. is it really that hard to understand?
> 
> no they aren't just a bunch of oversized thugs. and a lot of the people defending them or that are against the suspensions aren't pacers fans. they deserve to be punished but there are reasons for what they did and they are pretty easy to see.


Well said my man, well said.


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## ChristopherJ (Aug 10, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>rocketeer</b>!
> 
> he didn't. reread his post.
> 
> these suspensions really piss me off. they are complete bull****. i can accept these as legit is stern makes the pistons play the rest of their home games with no fans. if artest is out for the season, so should the pistons fans. but i know that won't happen.


u cant generalize a small minority of detroit fans being idiots into what u just said. thats a disgrace to logic.


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## whiterhino (Jun 15, 2003)

It's a disgrace, and defending them, an even bigger disgrace:no:


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## adomis82 (Aug 30, 2004)

I can't believe you people still don't accept these suspensions. You guys act as if Artest wasen't provoking the fans the entire way. You guys act as if you can just disrespect Detroit fans and they don't get upset. 

Where the heck are you guys from???

Don't you realize there are ways to act??


AND WHEN ARE YOU GUYS GOING TO REALIZE THAT ARTEST ATTACKED A GUY WITH A BEER IN HIS HANDS!!!! OF COURSE HE DIDN'T THROW ****!!!


AND THE GUY JACKSON ATTACKED WAS NEXT TO THE GUY ARTEST ATTACKED.....THAT COULD'VE BEEN HIS BOY

AND IF MY FRIEND WAS THE GUY ARTEST WAS ATTACKING I WOULD'VE AT LEAST THROWN A BEER....Arest was attaccking someone who didn't do anything



You guys who don't believe THAT derserves the suspension that they got are firggin nutz.....you're acting crazy.......you are not making sense.......and I'm tired trying to set you guys straight


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## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>jcs83md</b>!
> I'm not sure that was the guy who threw the beer... but if you say so. So you're really 18 and think thats Ok? I fear all of our futures if its ok to physically harm someone because you got hit with a little liquid. Oh, and wouldnt you do "more stuff" to someone if they are a foot taller than you ready to rip your head off for something you didn't even do in the first place?


no, that was the guy that threw the beer. i'm not talking about the first beer. the guy jackson hit clearly threw a beer in artest's face from a couple of feet away. directly after that jackson hit him. did you even read my post? when did i say it was ok. i said it wasn't ok and they deserve to be punished but that there are reasons for what they did and the punishment is way too harsh.



> Whatever the case may be they are millionaires and are expected to act like it. They didn't, so they got punished. I guess some people forget its a privilege they earn exorbitant amounts of money TO PLAY A GAME for a living.


right. and because they make millions of dollars playing a game, fans are allowed to throw things at them and come onto the court to fight them.


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## adomis82 (Aug 30, 2004)

Rocketeer,


Artest was attacking a guy with a drink in his hands.......if that was my boy I might throw a drink at him for attack my friend who didn't do ****......does that give jackson reason to throw a haymaker at me??

Listent to the ESPN guys.....at first they were upset about the situation but since then they have came to their senses and realize what the Pacers players did was wrong and deserves suspensions??


when can I expect the same from you Artest supporters?


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## mavsman (Jun 11, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>StephenJackson</b>!
> 
> 
> It doesn't matter. He was assaulted, how is one to know when danger is present? The only rationale for it is if the person truly believes he is in danger. If someone throws a rock at me from 10 feet away, I see that man as a threat. It doesn't matter the source of the assault. If Artest felt that his safety was at stake while unruley fans were throwing things at him and shouting at him, then he has the right to defend himself. And let me also remind you that it wasn't just a 'cup', it was an almost FULL cup of beer that hit him square in the face from point blank range. Once that initial assault happens, how is Ron to know that it is going to stop and that he was no longer in danger? He felt that he had to defend himself, and therefore he did. Completely acceptable.


Wow, try taking your Pacer's glasses off for a moment. Nobody rational believes that Artest thought he was in danger. He was pissed because he felt disrespected. He was going to pummel the guy that disrespected him. He was not worried about his personal safety. I am sorry your season is ruined because of this but to even suggest that this was "Completely acceptable" shows you have absolutely no perspective.


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## HippieHair33 (Jul 16, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Doggpound</b>!
> jcs83md----It's hard not to be defensive when your players are the only ones getting punished for something that a lot of people were responsible for. I think it's the timing more than anything. I'm hoping there is severe punishment forthcoming for the other involved, but until then the Pacers players are the scapegoats for a bad situation. Yes, they were out of line and deserve to get punished, but not only them which is how it appears now. And no, Wallace's six game suspension isn't enough from the Palace/Pistons side .


nicely said.

another belief of mine (i dont care if you dont wanna hear it, i'm gonna say it) is that atleast imho, the league, possibly, should not intervene(sp?) at all in this situation. 

we seem to glorify nba players (not to mention every other celebrity in the last 100 years) and hold them to much higher standards than the rest of the people in the world. I think sometimes we forget that *they too are only human!* And in this case the indiana players and the detroit fans should be treated as humans, not as PLAYERS and FANS.

If 2 guys were walking down the street, both noticeably aggrivated, and 1 guy threw a cup of beer on the other guy, he has the right to go beat the **** out of that guy. nobody would say that guy number 2 was wrong. but since in this case it's an "average joe" versus an nba star, suddenly the nba star has done something very wrong. that is really really ****ed up imo.

this situation should have been left to the police and the police only. i only hope and pray that the players association can get something done and that big market stern will be forced to lower the suspensions. but until then i will remain one pissed off nba fan that is not to be ****ed with.


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## HippieHair33 (Jul 16, 2004)

mavsman is right, he didnt feel like he was in danger, he was just extremely pissed which is totally understandable.

now, once that guy came onto the court it was a fight between 2 guys and artest just happened to get the first hit in and win. in that case, if he didnt hit the guy, the guy would have hit him.

jackson is just a straight up thug lol. he wanted to kick someones *** and used the brawl as an excuse lol. but still...the league should not have anything to do with this.

they dont own the players!!


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## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>adomis82</b>!
> Rocketeer,
> Artest was attacking a guy with a drink in his hands.......if that was my boy I might throw a drink at him for attack my friend who didn't do ****......does that give jackson reason to throw a haymaker at me??


i could understand the drink if it was thrown while artest was "attacking" the guy. artest went into the stands, grabbed the guy, and pulled him to the ground. he didn't even throw a punch. he then has 5-6+ guys holding him back. artest wasn't attacking the guy's "friend" who may or may not have really been his friend. he was there being restrained by several guys. that is when the guy threw the drink in his face. i think that gives jackson reason enough to throw the punch. artest was defenseless with guys holding back each arm, and then a guy decides to throw a drink in his face. jackson should still have to face punishment for the hit(though 30 games seems like a lot when maxwell only got 10 and rodman got 11 but kicking a random camera man), but he had a reason to throw the punch.


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## jcs83md (Jun 9, 2003)

> could understand the drink if it was thrown while artest was "attacking" the guy. artest went into the stands, grabbed the guy, and pulled him to the ground. he didn't even throw a punch. he then has 5-6+ guys holding him back. artest wasn't attacking the guy's "friend" who may or may not have really been his friend. he was there being restrained by several guys. that is when the guy threw the drink in his face. i think that gives jackson reason enough to throw the punch. artest was defenseless with guys holding back each arm, and then a guy decides to throw a drink in his face. jackson should still have to face punishment for the hit(though 30 games seems like a lot when maxwell only got 10 and rodman got 11 but kicking a random camera man), but he had a reason to throw the punch.




Artest shouldnt have been in the crowd to begin with.


Stands = fans
Court = players


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>adomis82</b>!
> Why do you equate getting hit with a plastic cup the same as being hit with a ROCK?


The cup had ice in it and ice hurts as much or even more than a rock.


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## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>jcs83md</b>!
> Artest shouldnt have been in the crowd to begin with.
> 
> 
> ...


right. but once artest was there, is it wrong for stephen jackson to try to protect him?

artest shouldn't have been in the crowd and he should be suspended for going into the crowd after a fan. but no way should that suspension be for an entire season especially since he went into the stands after he was actually hit with something in the face. it's not like someone was talking trash and he went after them. he was actually hit with something first. a full season suspension is just way too much compared to othe penalties that have been given out in similar cases in the past.


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## Johnny Mac (May 6, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>RP McMurphy</b>!
> Wouldn't 30 games have been long enough to send the message that going into the stands isn't acceptable? Did David Stern really have to ruin our season just to make a point?
> 
> Well, I don't care, because for as long as David Stern is commissioner, I'm done being an NBA fan. For years, he's been looking for a way to "solve" all the NBA's PR problems by making an example of a player. This was his chance, and dammit, he took it.
> ...


I just caught this. This is as real as it gets, and if my team was in the running for a title and David Stern pulled this nonsense, I'd do the same thing as RP here. I really hope you'll be back, but if not, its understandable. Peace.


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## jcs83md (Jun 9, 2003)

He sounds like a drama queen to me.


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