# 2010 Plan B?



## TwinkieFoot

I hope that Donnie Walsh has a solid plan B in place if we are unable to sign any free agents of consequence. I think LeBron is no longer realistic, Wade never was an option, and with Walsh's reluctance to offer the max otherwise, I doubt we'll be able to pursade any remaining all-star free agents to sign with us. Although these recommendations may fly in the face of everything Walsh has stated in the media, I think they are plans that we would have to consider if we strike out this offseason.

*PLAN A
Knicks Trade:*
Danilo Gallinari...F
Wilson Chandler...F
Toney Douglas...PG
Eddy Curry...C
Our Cap Space
$3 million

*Knicks Receive:*
Chris Paul...PG
Pedrag Stojackovic...SF
Emeka Okafor...C

Darren Collison is a baller and I doubt that the Hornets particularly care to maintain the 13th highest payroll in the league while no longer being a contender. This trade would effectively rid us of all the young talent left on our team and handicap the ability to acquire anymore for the next 2-3 years due to the McGrady trade. In spite of that, the opportunity to acquire the league's best PG in a system entirely contingent on PG play can't be passed up. Both teams win because the Hornets ditch horrible contracts and the Knicks acquire the engine to make this team go. Resign Tracy McGrady and bring back Al Harrington and we'd be good to go.


*PLAN B
Knicks Trade:*
Danilo Gallinari...SF
Toney Douglas...PG
Eddy Curry...C
$3 million

*Knicks Receive:*
Ricky Rubio...PG
Ramon Sessions...PG
Sasha Pavlovic...SG (sign and trade)

I doubt the Wolves would be so kind as to assume Eddy Curry's contract but it would be worth the try. The principles in this deal though should work. The Wolves lack long-range shooting and a SF both of which are Gallo's fortay. Toney Douglas is also a much better fit for the triangle than Ramon Sessions who can not shoot the ball. This deal is risky, given the fact that no one has ever seen Rubio play on a NBA level but his potential may make it all worth wild. I personally do not believe Gallo will ever become an all-star (pretty much peaking in the Hedo Turkglu stratosphere) but I think Ricky could in our system. Sessions is the stopgap while we develop Ricky.


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## TwinkieFoot

If we were to fall flat on our faces this offseason, I assume there is always other options via a trade. I would recommend acquiring only one year deals in order to maintain some flexibility for the 2011 offseason. Moves that fit that prerequiste include:

*Michael Redd*...SG, Milwaukee Bucks
Is owed $18.3 million for the 2010-2011 season. Considered to be one of the best (if not the best) shooter(s) in the league. Is only 30 years old and may still have enough left in the tank to be productive. I don't beleive the Bucks want him anymore given the fact that he is injury-prone and that they can win without him. I think we can safely acquire him without giving up anyone in return.

*TJ Ford*...PG, Indiana Pacers
Is owed $8.5 million for the 2010-2011 offseason. Also injury-prone like Redd but is a true floor general. He has a tendency to play a little out of control but is a huge upgrade over anything we have at PG. The Pacers have had him on the block all this season and I think we can assume his contract without giving up anything in return. A reunion of he and Redd (assuming they are back in form) would be interesting to watch.

*Josh Howard*....SF, Washington Wizards
Is owed $11.5 million assuming the Wizards don't excerise there team option (which they will). Has always been a headcase but is very skilled and might be the type of stop-gap we need to remain competitive and not completely botch the 2010-2011 season.


*Sebastian Telfair*...PG, Cleveland Cavaliers
Is owed $2.7 million for the 2010-2011 offseason. I was really impressed with his play off the bench with the Clippers before he got dealt. I think he'd instantly be the best PG on our team but is better suited as as a 6th man. May be a cheaper alternative to Rodriquez and Eddie House.




Thoughts?


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## Dre

2010 Plan B is 2011. As long as the New York fans see the low cap number they'll understand Walsh just doesn't want to spend yet. They just went through 10 years of hell with spending just to spend, so if they can't wait one more offseason for Carmelo forget 'em.

What I'm learning in basketball is it's rare that things happen when everyone expects them to.

I wouldn't give up on Lebron either. If the Cavs don't win the title he's gone.


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## TwinkieFoot

Dre™ said:


> 2010 Plan B is 2011. As long as the New York fans see the low cap number they'll understand Walsh just doesn't want to spend yet. They just went through 10 years of hell with spending just to spend, so if they can't wait one more offseason for Carmelo forget 'em.
> 
> What I'm learning in basketball is it's rare that things happen when everyone expects them to.
> 
> I wouldn't give up on Lebron either. If the Cavs don't win the title he's gone.


The only way I can see LeBron coming to NY is if they get upset in the playoffs and/or don't make it to the Finals. So long as he makes it to the Finals, he'll stay IMO.


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## Dre

Of course, I agree with that.


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## c_dog

cavs have a good chance of getting upset by the bulls though to be honest. so i guess there's still a slight chance lebron would leave.

not sure about the plan.. i personally think it would be wise not to bank on getting a superstar. really, it's a pipe dream that all fan bases like to dream but it's not exactly the most realistic. i'm not sure if the trades posted above are that good for the team though... if chris paul weren't always injured i think they would be getting a great deal but i'm just not liking chris paul at the moment. but then i guess you weren't giving up all that much anyway considering your best player in the trade is gallinari(a fine player mind you, but obviously not even an all-star at this point).


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## TwinkieFoot

c_dog said:


> cavs have a good chance of getting upset by the bulls though to be honest. so i guess there's still a slight chance lebron would leave.
> 
> not sure about the plan.. i personally think it would be wise not to bank on getting a superstar. really, it's a pipe dream that all fan bases like to dream but it's not exactly the most realistic. i'm not sure if the trades posted above are that good for the team though... if chris paul weren't always injured i think they would be getting a great deal but i'm just not liking chris paul at the moment. but then i guess you weren't giving up all that much anyway considering your best player in the trade is gallinari(a fine player mind you, but obviously not even an all-star at this point).


Any team in the leaguue runs the chance of being upset but let's be serious....its LeBron James the Bulls are playing against. I mean, this dude has counted to infinite...twice. When he does a push-up, he doesn't push himself up, he pushes the Earth down. Needless to say, this dude isn't going to let the Cavs lose.

I don't think we can get a superstar but I certainly think Chris Bosh can be had now that the Raptors are officially out of the playoffs. I don't like Chris Paul alone in a deal but if we're able to pair him with a Chris Bosh this offseason then it would be one hell of a summer. Granted, Paul has been injuried pretty frequently but all we'd be giving up are rookies that likely will never be all-stars albiet pretty good players.


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## TwinkieFoot

Here's another idea about a potential Chris Paul deal....

*Knicks Trade (to MIN/NOH):*
Danilo Gallinari...SF
Toney Douglas...PG
Wilson Chandler...SF
Eddy Curry...C
$3 million cash
$25 million cap space

*Knicks Receive:*
Chris Paul...PG
Pedrag Stojackovic...SF
Emeka Okafor...C
Julian Wright...SF


*Hornets Trade (MIN/NYK):*
Chris Paul...PG
Pedrag Stojackovic...SF
Emeka Okafor...C
Julian Wright...SF
Morris Peterson...SG

*Hornets Receive:*
Draft Rights to Ricky Rubio...PG
Ramon Sessions...PG
Wilson Chandler...SF
Eddy Curry...C
$23 million trade exception

*T'Wolves Trade (NYK/NOH):*
Draft rights to Ricky Rubio...PG
Ramon Sessions...PG

*T'Wolves Receive:*
Danilo Gallinari...SF
Toney Douglas...PG
Morris Peterson...SG
$3 million cash 


The deal operates on the premise that the Hornets prefer to rebuild and save money rather than pump money into a roster that can't realistically make the playoffs in the West and is meered with terrible contracts. In return, they receive a guy capable of being the lead man at PG down the road (Rubio) and solid young role players (Chandler, Sessions).

For the Wolves, the trade assumes that they finally realize that Rubio will not play in Minnesota and in turn capitalize on his trade value by exchanging him for a future quasi-all star in Danilo. Toney Douglas has also shown flashes of being a hell of a backup PG and an excellent fit in the triangle.

Knicks do the deal because they acquire a sure-fire allstar and retain the option of adding a second with nearly $17 million left in cap space.


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## c_dog

it's lebron james but remember that the cavs have never had all their guys playing together. they were struggling with shaq on the team early on, and quite frankly, shaq and jamison have never played well along side each other. shaq really hasn't played in a long time too, and the playoffs is a horrible time to bring someone back(see nelson last year for a recent example).

the cavs have chemistry issues. i'm not just talking about possibilities with any matchups here, i'm talking about how the cavs simply haven't shown they can play together, while the bulls are starting to get it together at the right time. bulls have one of the best chances to upset the cavs.


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## TwinkieFoot

c_dog said:


> it's lebron james but remember that the cavs have never had all their guys playing together. they were struggling with shaq on the team early on, and quite frankly, shaq and jamison have never played well along side each other. shaq really hasn't played in a long time too, and the playoffs is a horrible time to bring someone back(see nelson last year for a recent example).
> 
> the cavs have chemistry issues. i'm not just talking about possibilities with any matchups here, i'm talking about how the cavs simply haven't shown they can play together, while the bulls are starting to get it together at the right time. bulls have one of the best chances to upset the cavs.


The Cavs may have chemistry issues but the mere combination of experience and talent should overcome these concerns, especially against a Bulls team whose chemistry has been so bad that their coach had been reduced to being a lameduck until a replacement could be found. Since that replacement never materialized, Del ***** was able to keep his job but may still be on the first door out following this physical altercation withJohn Paxson.


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## Kiyaman

*Plan B? I'm lost.* 

Toronto not making the playoffs have me believing Bosh will leave the Raptors. But he will leave on a happy note for the Raptors organization that did show an effort to build around him. By leaving on a "sign and trade proposal" to get his 6 year max salary and the Raptors organization getting something in return for losing their Franchise star. 

*When the Knicks first came up with the idea of a 2010 FA Plan.....*
my thoughts were if any Super-Star leave the team that drafted them in 2010 FA it would be on a "sign and trade" deal. Why? 

A Super-Star player do not need the bad publicity that will come from his former team if the organization got nada at the FA departure. 
Agents and Endorsement companies (Nike) would not promote such a departure. 
Which makes Donnie Walsh 2010 Plan a Joke (my bad Walsh has David Lee Agent on the same-page, since he did'nt trade him for the 2008 5th pick LOL). 

What u think???


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## Dre

Walsh isn't going to give Bosh max money as he shouldn't, because he's not a franchise player. I'd rather keep Lee than give Bosh 18M a year.


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## TwinkieFoot

Kiyaman said:


> *Plan B? I'm lost.*
> 
> Toronto not making the playoffs have me believing Bosh will leave the Raptors. But he will leave on a happy note for the Raptors organization that did show an effort to build around him. By leaving on a "sign and trade proposal" to get his 6 year max salary and the Raptors organization getting something in return for losing their Franchise star.
> 
> *When the Knicks first came up with the idea of a 2010 FA Plan.....*
> my thoughts were if any Super-Star leave the team that drafted them in 2010 FA it would be on a "sign and trade" deal. Why?
> 
> A Super-Star player do not need the bad publicity that will come from his former team if the organization got nada at the FA departure.
> Agents and Endorsement companies (Nike) would not promote such a departure.
> Which makes Donnie Walsh 2010 Plan a Joke (my bad Walsh has David Lee Agent on the same-page, since he did'nt trade him for the 2008 5th pick LOL).
> 
> What u think???


Although I in part agree with your thinking, I don't think it necessarily applies to Bosh and his situation. First, Toronto has been completely inept in trying to put together a winner which is ridiculous when you consider that they have the best PF in the Eastern Conference and potentially the league. Second, Toronto is not much of a basketball consumer and is not a particularly big media market. As a result, I do not believe Bosh would suffer much of a backlash for simply walking away (did it hurt McGrady when he left? No). In fact, a group like Nike would encourage it since Bosh has largely been in the media backdrop because of Toronto's low profile market. I think he'll leave via a sign and trade but mostly because it offers him more money to do so than to simply sign with a team.


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## TwinkieFoot

Dre™ said:


> Walsh isn't going to give Bosh max money as he shouldn't, because he's not a franchise player. I'd rather keep Lee than give Bosh 18M a year.


I would think that Bosh would be amendable to taking less than the $18 million he'd be eligible to earn per year. The reason being that he does not have to pay nearly as many taxes as he once did in Toronto (province tax + Canadian tax + U.S. federal taxes vs. NY state tx + U.S. federal taxes). Add to the fact that New York is an infinitely larger media market than Toronto and serves as our country's stepping stone to the international market and I can see Bosh taking a cut if it meant acquiring other players to help him win.


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## Dre

Do not make Bosh your best player, it's not going to work out.


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## TwinkieFoot

Dre™ said:


> Do not make Bosh your best player, it's not going to work out.


I mean, David Lee is our best player right now.......lol. Yeah, I think we should go after Bosh at all costs.


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## Dre

See my thing is don't spend it to spend, because once that money is spent you're going to have to run with that roster for the next 4 years. Don't just get better, if you really wanna compete hold the money until the opportunity arises to really become a championship contender.


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## TwinkieFoot

Dre™ said:


> See my thing is don't spend it to spend, because once that money is spent you're going to have to run with that roster for the next 4 years. Don't just get better, if you really wanna compete hold the money until the opportunity arises to really become a championship contender.


How can you really become a championship contender if you never position yourself (with regards to personnel) to do so? Do you believe that Bosh can not be a critical part to winning a championship?


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## c_dog

TwinkieFoot said:


> The Cavs may have chemistry issues but the mere combination of experience and talent should overcome these concerns, especially against a Bulls team whose chemistry has been so bad that their coach had been reduced to being a lameduck until a replacement could be found. Since that replacement never materialized, Del ***** was able to keep his job but may still be on the first door out following this physical altercation withJohn Paxson.


there is some playoff experience there but nobody outside of shaq has truly had that much playoff success. antwan jamison certainly ain't no winner, and mo disappeared last year. anthony parker certainly hasn't shown he has anything left in his tank... the bulls have some playoff experience too with several players who have been to the playoffs several times(hinrich, deng, brad miller), while rose&noah were battle tested against the celtics last year. i'm not sure if cavs have significantly more experience at all, and their most experienced veteran(shaq) is simply too old.

bulls are very hungry, and as with all young athletic hungry teams, they are very dangerous.

don't forget that shaq is too old to take advantage of whatever talent he was gifted with. i think you're underestimating the severity of shaq's decline in recent years. shaq is at this point more of a distraction/dead weight for the cavs than a contributor.


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## TwinkieFoot

c_dog said:


> there is some playoff experience there but nobody outside of shaq has truly had that much playoff success. antwan jamison certainly ain't no winner, and mo disappeared last year. anthony parker certainly hasn't shown he has anything left in his tank... the bulls have some playoff experience too with several players who have been to the playoffs several times(hinrich, deng, brad miller), while rose&noah were battle tested against the celtics last year. i'm not sure if cavs have significantly more experience at all, and their most experienced veteran(shaq) is simply too old.
> 
> bulls are very hungry, and as with all young athletic hungry teams, they are very dangerous.
> 
> don't forget that shaq is too old to take advantage of whatever talent he was gifted with. i think you're underestimating the severity of shaq's decline in recent years. shaq is at this point more of a distraction/dead weight for the cavs than a contributor.


Again, the Cavs have not even been playing there best basketball and are up 2-0. The series is going to Chicago but I doubt it'll make much of a difference. The simple fact is that Cleveland is vastly more talented and experienced, which is reflected in the course of these games.


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## ChosenFEW

the best plan B would be to save some $ for 2011's free agents. at least enough for 1 max in 2011


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## TwinkieFoot

Here's another suggestion along the same lines of thinking...

The Knicks will have 4 contracts on our payroll guaranteed for the 2010-2011 season in Eddy Curry, Danilo Gallinari, Wilson Chandler and Toney Douglas. They should expand the list to 5 and pick up Bill Walker's $800,000 salary, which would total $19 million in commited salaries. David Lee's cap hold of $8 million (which we should not renounce), will bring that total up to about $28 million; leaving us $28 million in cap space. I believe the best course of action is to combine both these committed salaries and cap space into trades that can bring us the players we need to be contenders. As mentioned earlier, I think Chris Paul is the guy we should look to trade for and may be able to do so by assuming all of the Hornets bad contracts. Despite how drastic an undertaking that may be, the Knicks would still have enough money to maintain David Lee's cap hold and later utilize him in a sign and trade for Chris Bosh (A'mare Stoudamire if not possible). Here's how we could do it...

A sign and trade between the Hornets, T'Wolves and Knicks....

*Knicks trade: *Eddy Curry, Danilo Gallinari, Wilson Chandler, Toney Douglas and $3 million
*Knicks receive:* Chris Paul, Pedrag Stojackovic, Emeka Okafor, and James Posey

*T'Wolves trade:* Draft rights to Ricky Rubio, Ramon Sessions and Sasha Pavlovic (sign and trade)
*T'Wolves receive:* Danilo Gallinari, Toney Douglas, Morris Peterson and $3 million

*Hornets trade:* Chris Paul, Pedrag Stojackvoic, Emeka Okafor, James Posey and Morris Peterson
*Hornets receive:* Draft rights to Ricky Rubio, Ramon Sessions, Wilson Chandler, Sasha Pavlovic and Eddy Curry

I think the deal would be a lot more realistic if the Knicks were able to include picks in the deal but is a mute point being that we have none available. I don't think they are necessarily a deal breaker for the Hornets because we'd be making the playoffs with Paul and therefore would not be getting the higher caliber picks in the draft. All in all though, I believe the deal satisfies the needs of all teams involved.

The Hornets are pretty much in a cap bind as a result of their accumulation of terrible contracts (much like the Knicks of yesteryear). This in turn leaves them with few options to improve their team, which is a serious issue given how difficult the Western Conference is. They likely won't be making the playoffs the next few seasons, so might as well start over on a clean slate. Ricky Rubio, Wilson Chandler, Ramon Sessions and more than $30 million in freed money paired with Darren Collison, Marcus Thorton, Julian Wright and David West provides the team with building blocks for the future. I think they can at least be competitive and with the acquistion of a few first round picks and better cap management may be right back in the thick of things.

I think T'Wolve nation is starting to realize that Ricky Rubio hasn't really changed his stance on playing in Minnesota. Given their desperate situation, they need players that can help the team now and whose progress/impact in the game can actually be guaged and not speculated. Danilo is a player that should be of equal compensation and provides the Wolves with two needs: (1) A talented starting small-forward and (2)A 3-point shooter/perimeter scorer. Toney Douglas also is a key piece in that his game is much better suited to the triangle than either Sessions, Flynn and Rubio. Although he'd be a bench player, he has the potential of being one of the best in the league down the road and may even be able to start depending on the team around him. While Morris Peterson would be a one-year rental, he also fills a huge need for the team at the 2 guard position and continues to add to their 3 point shooting abilities.

The benefits of the trade are clear for the Knicks. They get one of the best, if not the best PG in the league and still will maintain enough cap space to acquire one of the best PF's in the league via a sign and trade (Chris Bosh, Amare Stoudamire and to a much lesser extent, David Lee). Our cap figure would stand at approximately $9 million but would pursue another trade in an attempt to offer more wiggle room to sign a role player. I suggest a 3 way trade with the Pistons and Warriors involving Okafor.

*Knicks trade:* Emeka Okafor, $3 million cash
*Knicks receive: *Andris Biedrins and $3 million cap space (via Detriot)

*Pistons trade:* Chris Wilcox, Kwame Brown, and $4 million cap space
*Pistons receieve:* Emeka Okafor, $3 million cash

*Warriors trade:* Andris Biedrins
*Warriors receive:* Chris Wilcox, Kwame Brown (non-guaranteed) and $5 million financial flexibility 

Once again, I think this deal satisfies the needs of all the teams involved. Although Okafor is quite a financial commitment, the Pistons have not been reluctant in committing dollars to players (evident in the Ben Gordon, Richard Hamilton and Charlie Villaneuva deals). Okafor actually is still relatively young and can add to that foundation of players that they have brought in. Emeka also helps to solidify the center position, which was the achilles heal of the Pistons this season who completely fell apart after Ben Wallace went down. Emeka is still one of the best centers in the league and fits the bill of the half-court, grind it out player that they like.

The Warriors make this deal because it provides them with tons of financial flexibility, which is a huge asset when teams are being sold (which the Warriors are). Given how terrible Biedrins season was last year and the fact that the team did better with Turiaf manning the middle, I think they'd be more than willing to let him go. Like DaGrinch, I also think that they will look to revisit the OJ Mayo/Thabeet deal for Monta Ellis, in which case Biedrins would be especially despensible.

Although Biedrins is a huge risk for us given the number of years on his contract, the fact he's overpaid and is terribly injury-prone, he is one of only a handful of players that can fit our system at the 5. When healthy, he reminds me of a shot-blocking David Lee pre jump-shot but a much better defender and longer. He is also alot cheaper than keeping Emeka, so I'd roll the dice.

From here, I'd look to do the sign and trade with the Raptors for Chris Bosh. Our cap space figure would stand at approximately $13 million but given the fact that we only need to keep $9 million available to retain Lee's rights, I'd use that $3 million to bring in a mid-tier role player i.e. Marco Belinelli. I loved this guys game for a long time and think that his style of play would excel in our system.

*Knicks Trade: *$1.5 million cash and a future 2nd round pick
*Knicks Receive:* Marco Belinelli

The Raptors don't need him with DeMarcus Derozan and Sonnie Weems emerging as players, so why not just save money? Our cap figure would then stand at about $11 million. Using the $1 of the $3 million left, I'd look to resign Earl Barron although I think his asking price might be significantly higher. We'd have to convince him that we'd sign him more for the following season but given his recent play, I think he'd want to stay in our system. With the remaining $2 million left before we infringe on Lee's cap hold, I'd make a sign and trade deal for Louis Amundson of the Phoenix Suns.

*Knicks Trade:* JR Giddens (non-guaranteed, sign and trade), the 38th pick and 39th pick
*Knicks Receive: *Louis Amundson

Although I'm sure a lot of you guys don't know who he is, he is exactly what we need off our bench because of the energy, hustle and skill he brings to the court at the 4 position. I've been continually impressed with his play behind Amare Stoudamire and I'm convinced he could start on certain teams (important considering that Bosh misses 10-15 games every year). Because of his low profile behind a near superstar, in addition to the frugality of the Suns and their desire to develop of Earl Clark, I think he could be had. And here would come the move that would make it all worth it....

*Knicks trade:* David Lee (sign and trade), $3 million cash
*Knicks receive:* Chris Bosh (sign and trade)

Chris Bosh is leaving Toronto and I think David Lee is the best they can fetch for him on the open market because the Bulls won't give up Joakim Noah for him reportedly. Although Bosh would cost significantly more than the $9 million hold we had available for Lee, I believe the deal is permissible because we could exceed the cap to resign our own players whose Bird Rights we own; which is the case with Lee. The Raptors obviously would not pay Lee and equivalent salary to Bosh, whose a better player, so I would imagine Lee's deal would be front-loaded (ala Paul Millsap/ Kirk Hinrich) whereas Bosh's would gradually increase. I believe the starting point for both players would be able $15 million per. *If this deal isn't an option, then we pursue Amare albiet at a cheaper price than Bosh.*

At this point, the Knicks would only be able to sign players to the minimum; making the ability to fill out the roster particularly difficult. Tracy McGrady said that he would sign for the minimum if the Knicks acquired two all-star players. I could only hope that he is true to his word and does so. If he does and returns to his all-star form (which I believe he will), then the Knicks really don't need much more to win. The PG position though is especially weak. Considering that Paul is injury-prone, it would be ideal to bring in a quality backup but as I mentioned before, can not use anything more than the minimum. I think with the way Chris Duhon has played this past season, his love for the big city and comfort knowing our system that he would take the minimum. If not, Antonio Daniels definitely would and I could only hope that Acie Law IV would. I definitely could see a Michael Finley who still has something left in the tank signing for the minimum with us as well. Here's what I imagine the roster would look like.

*KNICKS 2010-2011 ROSTER*
*Starters*
Chris Paul...PG
Tracy McGrady...SG
Pedrag Stojackovic...SF
Chris Bosh/Amare Stoudamire/David Lee...PF
Andris Biedrins...C
*Rotation Players*
Chris Duhon...PG
Marco Belinelli...SG
James Posey...SF
Louis Amundson...PF
Earl Barron...C
*Bench Fodder*
Acie Law IV...PG
Antonio Daniels...G
Michael Finley...G
Bill Walker...SF
Rafael Araujo....C


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## Dre

TwinkieFoot said:


> How can you really become a championship contender if you never position yourself (with regards to personnel) to do so? Do you believe that Bosh can not be a critical part to winning a championship?


As the second best player, but once you sign him you're not going to get a player better than him. I'd start out with Carmelo before Bosh, honestly.


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## TwinkieFoot

I don't think the aforementioned team would be able to legitimately be able to beat the Lakers but would be able to give any team a run for their money. Aside from McGrady, Duhon, Walker and Barron there would be no returning Knicks and aside from McGrady, no returning starters. It's a hell of a chemistry bridge the Knicks would have to gap that I don't think could be accomplished in a season. In either case, I think we would be in a much better position having made these moves in the immediate future and down the road. Our estimated cap figure would be at just $67-$68 million, which offers us enough wiggle room to get below the cap with Stojackovic's $15 million expiring contract. Certainly not enough to add Carmelo (whose my favorite player and would love on this team) but enough to bring in quality role players to bolster areas of weakness (ie backup PG's).


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## TwinkieFoot

Dre™ said:


> As the second best player, but once you sign him you're not going to get a player better than him. I'd start out with Carmelo before Bosh, honestly.


Unfortunately for us, Bosh is a free gaent before Carmelo so that isn't an option. We could realistically bring Melo in AFTER Bosh, so why not just sign Bosh outright?


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## Dre

Is that really realistic under the cap? I'm not being sarcastic, I really don't know. Regardless, Walsh isn't going to sign Bosh unless it's for less than the Max, which I'm sure another team will give him.

And why is the situation "unfortunate"? You're operating under the impression that the Knicks _have_ to spend the money, just because they have it, which has proved over time to be an ineffective strategy.


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## urwhatueati8god

The Knicks have room for two maximum free agents.

Also, the Heat better win at least one of these next two games, because if the Heat get swept than we along with everyone else will be looking at Dwyane Wade as a free agent.


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## Dre

They have to renounce Lee first. At the end of the day, we won't know anything until we see what happens with the Cavs. 

If they lose bad he's gone, and the dominoes fall. 

If he stays you end up with Joe Johnson and hopefully get Lee back, if you just insist on spending money. Walsh will resign Lee before he signs Bosh, book it.


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## TwinkieFoot

Dre™ said:


> Is that really realistic under the cap? I'm not being sarcastic, I really don't know. Regardless, Walsh isn't going to sign Bosh unless it's for less than the Max, which I'm sure another team will give him.
> 
> And why is the situation "unfortunate"? You're operating under the impression that the Knicks _have_ to spend the money, just because they have it, which has proved over time to be an ineffective strategy.


It is. We have anywhere between $32-$37 million in cap this offseason. Next year, we'll have Eddy Curry's expiring $11 million contract and therefore enough to sign both Bosh and then Melo. I'd sign Bosh for the max not because we have money and should spend it but because it is his market value. Needless to say, the guy would be the best person on our team so the move is strictly basketball-related for me. Given the exorbitant amount of money we have available, I think we'll make his salary every bit worthwild since it is possible to actually surround him with talent.


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## TwinkieFoot

urwhatueati8god said:


> The Knicks have room for two maximum free agents.
> 
> Also, the Heat better win at least one of these next two games, because if the Heat get swept than we along with everyone else will be looking at Dwyane Wade as a free agent.


I doubt it. Wade loves Miami and I think people forget that the Heat have approximately $17 million in cap space this summer as well. The city is not a hard sell (hell I'm trying to go to med school there for everything but the academics) and I'd imagine that there are enough disgruntled stars that would love the opportunity to play with Wade (i.e. Bosh and A'mare; maybe Boozer). Wade and an all-star would certainly guarantee a few trips to the 2nd round at least.


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## TwinkieFoot

Dre™ said:


> They have to renounce Lee first. At the end of the day, we won't know anything until we see what happens with the Cavs.
> 
> If they lose bad he's gone, and the dominoes fall.
> 
> If he stays you end up with Joe Johnson and hopefully get Lee back, if you just insist on spending money. Walsh will resign Lee before he signs Bosh, book it.


The Knicks could still sign Lee, Bosh and Melo (the following season), without having to first renounce Lee. Again, we may have as much as $37 million in cap space if the cap is in fact set at $56 million as was speculated today.

I also disagree with presumption that all we are doing is spending money. These are some very talented players that these max contracts are attached to. Beyond that, the Knicks no longer have the option of building through the draft so why should we just sit on this money if we can use it to improve this team?


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## Dre

I'll be back once the Cavaliers season is over, one way or another and we might have a different perspective on it all.


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## Damian Necronamous

The Knicks do not need to and should not renounce Lee's rights unless they have deals set up with two max free agents. I'm sure they'll go after Amare immediately, but Joe Johnson has to be their target if LeBron goes back to Cleveland (which he probably will).


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## TwinkieFoot

Damian Necronamous said:


> The Knicks do not need to and should not renounce Lee's rights unless they have deals set up with two max free agents. I'm sure they'll go after Amare immediately, but Joe Johnson has to be their target if LeBron goes back to Cleveland (which he probably will).


But Joe Johnson is also 29 years old and is only going to be playing this caliber of basketball for a few more years. I recommend avoiding him unless he comes to us on the cheap and/or we're able to bring in roster capable of winning a title.


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## c_dog

TwinkieFoot said:


> Again, the Cavs have not even been playing there best basketball and are up 2-0. The series is going to Chicago but I doubt it'll make much of a difference. The simple fact is that Cleveland is vastly more talented and experienced, which is reflected in the course of these games.


no, the cavs are playing the way i expected them to. you can't say "they're not playing their best basketball" when they really can not play any better than this. they simply aren't that good. lebron is great, but that team is flawed.

and they're not even using shaq that much this series, which is probably a wise decision.

2-1 cavs and they are still the favorite to win. but like i was saying earlier, the bulls can put up a pretty good fight. if anybody is going to upset the cavs in the first round, it's them.


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## TwinkieFoot

c_dog said:


> no, the cavs are playing the way i expected them to. you can't say "they're not playing their best basketball" when they really can not play any better than this. they simply aren't that good. lebron is great, but that team is flawed.
> 
> and they're not even using shaq that much this series, which is probably a wise decision.
> 
> 2-1 cavs and they are still the favorite to win. but like i was saying earlier, the bulls can put up a pretty good fight. if anybody is going to upset the cavs in the first round, it's them.


Even if "they really can not play any better than this," they were the best team in the league this season and don't really need to in order to dispose of everyone not named the Lakers. Let's be reasonable for a second. Even with the so called "chemistry" issues they have, they can easily bench Jamison and play the lineup they've had all season since they ended up getting "Z" back. Now that would be stupid because Jamison is a huge upgrade and is really only one player they have to integrate into their system. They've integrated Ben Wallace, Delonte West, Wally Szerzbiak and a 4th dud in the past and still made the Conference Finals. Somehow I think Jamison won't be an issue.

I really don't understand what your arguing because any team can upset another. This is the NBA and your playing against professionals that make their living from balling the **** out on a consistent basis. You and I both know that although a 1-8 upset is possible, it ain't likely by a long shot and the Bulls never really had a chance. They may upset but there not going to so what are you arguing?


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## Tragedy

I can't call it with Lebron and the Cavs - that'll be more known after the finals or if they get eliminated earlier.

One thing is certain with the Cavs - they have no real leverage outside of winning a title THIS SEASON. 

Shaq comes off the books this offseason, but Cleveland is still on the hook for 65 million for 2010/2011. Already over the cap they'll have only the MLE to offer to re-up their team. If they win a title they'll be able to attract a FA at a bargain, but only slightly (at a bargain that is).

in 2011/2012 they'll have 38 million in contracts....but wait, that would be the first year of Bron's contract, which should be at 20 million to start I believe, and unless the NBA makes serious money the next few seasons they may end up being around the cap also and they won't have any real tradable pieces to build. They'll have to rely on Jamison's expiring contract for the next season to get more playersbut that won't happen until Jan 2012. I don't think that team would be good enough to win that season anyway.

I think PLAN A is to offer Lebron his contract.

Plan B is to go after Bosh and Wade

Plan Ba Boozer and Wade

Plan Bc Stoudemire and Wade

Plan C is to offer sign and trade to New Orleans if they would trade Paul.

Plan D is to try to sign one now who you can convince that you'll get a top 2011 free agent.

I believe plan B is the most likely scenario with Toronto not making the playoffs and Miami not winning a series since 2006.

I'd offer both players the max, earl barron and bill walker the minimum. Trade Curry's expiring contract to bolster the bench.

I think a lineup of


Barron
Bosh/Boozer
Gallinari
Wade
Douglas

Chandler
Walker
BACKUP POINT, CENTER, and/or SF from Curry trade
FREE AGENT signings to round out the bench.


is going to be a better team than what Miami can put together even if they did sign one of those bigs because I think Gallinari >>>> Beasley.

With Wade douglas can be a starter for a season or two because Wade handles the ball alot, Gallinari provides shooting, Bosh front court scoring and Barron gives NY size.

Non NY fans don't want to hear it, but Bosh and Wade will receive more money from endorsements. It's a fact. Wade's jersey will be a top 3 seller and Bosh will be a top 7. The addition of the NY market ALONE would add at least a few million to their salaries. Add to the fact that the lineup I propose will win the atlantic and be a top 4 seed next season (i'm probably undercutting them) and they'll make even more money as winners.


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## TwinkieFoot

Tragedy said:


> I can't call it with Lebron and the Cavs - that'll be more known after the finals or if they get eliminated earlier.
> 
> One thing is certain with the Cavs - they have no real leverage outside of winning a title THIS SEASON.
> 
> Shaq comes off the books this offseason, but Cleveland is still on the hook for 65 million for 2010/2011. Already over the cap they'll have only the MLE to offer to re-up their team. If they win a title they'll be able to attract a FA at a bargain, but only slightly (at a bargain that is).
> 
> in 2011/2012 they'll have 38 million in contracts....but wait, that would be the first year of Bron's contract, which should be at 20 million to start I believe, and unless the NBA makes serious money the next few seasons they may end up being around the cap also and they won't have any real tradable pieces to build. They'll have to rely on Jamison's expiring contract for the next season to get more playersbut that won't happen until Jan 2012. I don't think that team would be good enough to win that season anyway.
> 
> I think PLAN A is to offer Lebron his contract.
> 
> Plan B is to go after Bosh and Wade
> 
> Plan Ba Boozer and Wade
> 
> Plan Bc Stoudemire and Wade
> 
> Plan C is to offer sign and trade to New Orleans if they would trade Paul.
> 
> Plan D is to try to sign one now who you can convince that you'll get a top 2011 free agent.
> 
> I believe plan B is the most likely scenario with Toronto not making the playoffs and Miami not winning a series since 2006.
> 
> I'd offer both players the max, earl barron and bill walker the minimum. Trade Curry's expiring contract to bolster the bench.
> 
> I think a lineup of
> 
> 
> Barron
> Bosh/Boozer
> Gallinari
> Wade
> Douglas
> 
> Chandler
> Walker
> BACKUP POINT, CENTER, and/or SF from Curry trade
> FREE AGENT signings to round out the bench.
> 
> 
> is going to be a better team than what Miami can put together even if they did sign one of those bigs because I think Gallinari >>>> Beasley.
> 
> With Wade douglas can be a starter for a season or two because Wade handles the ball alot, Gallinari provides shooting, Bosh front court scoring and Barron gives NY size.
> 
> Non NY fans don't want to hear it, but Bosh and Wade will receive more money from endorsements. It's a fact. Wade's jersey will be a top 3 seller and Bosh will be a top 7. The addition of the NY market ALONE would add at least a few million to their salaries. Add to the fact that the lineup I propose will win the atlantic and be a top 4 seed next season (i'm probably undercutting them) and they'll make even more money as winners.


I just don't think we have a legitimate shot at Dwayne Wade. Although he and Pat Riley are at odds for the moment, they ultimately have the same goal at hand- to build a competitive team for the immediate future. It just so happens that both parties disagreed as to the best method of achieving this end; whereas Wade seemed more inclined to do so via trades , Riley felt cap space was the better alternative. In the end, Riley's method will likely be better as it yields more options (trade and free agency). I also think that the Heat are a sure-shot for Chris Bosh this free agency (assuming they pay him what he wants), so Wade is staying where he is. Miami is the 4th largest market in the U.S. and offers a high quality of life that New York doesn't.

I also don't understand why trading for Chris Paul would not be atop your agenda as "1a" to LeBron. He, IMO, is the best option we'd have when considering that the success of our SSOL offense is directly tied to the quality of PG play. I think that we may have a legitimate shot at acquiring him due to the fact that we can assume ALL of their bad contracts via trade, in exchange for the few young players we have left on this team (Gallinari, Douglas and Chandler). At the moment, that Hornets franchise has little hope of making the playoffs and no serious options for upgrading the team; likely making them amendable to blowing things up and rebuilding around Darren Collison.


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## TwinkieFoot

TwinkieFoot said:


> Here's another idea about a potential Chris Paul deal....
> 
> *Knicks Trade (to MIN/NOH):*
> Danilo Gallinari...SF
> Toney Douglas...PG
> Wilson Chandler...SF
> Eddy Curry...C
> $3 million cash
> $25 million cap space
> 
> *Knicks Receive:*
> Chris Paul...PG
> Pedrag Stojackovic...SF
> Emeka Okafor...C
> Julian Wright...SF
> 
> 
> *Hornets Trade (MIN/NYK):*
> Chris Paul...PG
> Pedrag Stojackovic...SF
> Emeka Okafor...C
> Julian Wright...SF
> Morris Peterson...SG
> 
> *Hornets Receive:*
> Draft Rights to Ricky Rubio...PG
> Ramon Sessions...PG
> Wilson Chandler...SF
> Eddy Curry...C
> $23 million trade exception
> 
> *T'Wolves Trade (NYK/NOH):*
> Draft rights to Ricky Rubio...PG
> Ramon Sessions...PG
> 
> *T'Wolves Receive:*
> Danilo Gallinari...SF
> Toney Douglas...PG
> Morris Peterson...SG
> $3 million cash
> 
> 
> The deal operates on the premise that the Hornets prefer to rebuild and save money rather than pump money into a roster that can't realistically make the playoffs in the West and is meered with terrible contracts. In return, they receive a guy capable of being the lead man at PG down the road (Rubio) and solid young role players (Chandler, Sessions).
> 
> For the Wolves, the trade assumes that they finally realize that Rubio will not play in Minnesota and in turn capitalize on his trade value by exchanging him for a future quasi-all star in Danilo. Toney Douglas has also shown flashes of being a hell of a backup PG and an excellent fit in the triangle.
> 
> Knicks do the deal because they acquire a sure-fire allstar and retain the option of adding a second with nearly $17 million left in cap space.


According to recent sources, the Raptors are not opposed to moving Chris Bosh via sign and trade if Hedo Turkoglu is included in exchange for an expiring. Should all these aforementioned deals occur, we could move Peja Stojackovic and David Lee (sign and trade) in exchange for Chris Bosh, Marco Belinelli and Hedo. Imagine Hedo coming off the bench on a team like this. We'd be Lakeresque.

*STARTERS*
Chris Paul...PG
Tracy McGrady...SG
James Posey...SF
Chris Bosh...PF
Andris Biedrins...C
*ROTATION*
Chris Duhon...PG
Marco Bellineli...SG
Hedo Turkuglo...F
Louis Amundson...PF
Earl Barron...C
*BENCH*
Antonio Daniels...G
Michael Finley...G/F
Joe Smith...F/C


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## bball2223

Plan B is postpone our spending until next summer, like Dre said.


There is 4 guys we should be targeting if we want to hit a home run during the free agency period this summer. LeBron, Wade, Amare, and Bosh. Any combination of those 4 sans an Amare/Bosh combo would be a successful summer. Those two would still leave us with no guards and our defense would still be atrocious as neither is anywhere close to a defensive anchor.


If we cannot pair 2 of those 4 together we really should postpone our spending until 2011. Bosh, Amare and Joe Johnson are not players you can build a franchise around. Bosh is a Gasol type player. As the leader of a team he may get us to the playoffs, but we won't be going anywhere in the postseason. Amare is a dominant offensive player, but he is atrocious on defense. Like Bosh he would get us to the playoffs, but our success in the postseason would not be there. If we end up with only Johnson I think it's likely we miss the postseason again. He is a borderline all-star, but he is a no show in big games/series and all the stuff coming out about him "not caring about the fans" isn't a positive either. If we pair Amare/Bosh with Johnson I could accept that offseason. With either combo we would be a playoff team and would probably jump into the top 4-5 teams in the East. Not necessarily a title contender, but a team who could possibly push for a conference finals appearance in the East depending on the role players. 


So an acceptable offseason would consist of the following signings:

-LeBron with Amare/Bosh/Wade
-Wade with LeBron/Amare/Bosh
-Bosh with LeBron/Wade
-Amare with LeBron/Wade
-Johnson with Amare/Bosh

If it is not any of those I say we either attempt to do a sign and trade with New Orleans (if CP3 is available) or wait until 2011 and go for Melo.


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## TwinkieFoot

bball2223 said:


> Plan B is postpone our spending until next summer, like Dre said.
> 
> 
> There is 4 guys we should be targeting if we want to hit a home run during the free agency period this summer. LeBron, Wade, Amare, and Bosh. Any combination of those 4 sans an Amare/Bosh combo would be a successful summer. Those two would still leave us with no guards and our defense would still be atrocious as neither is anywhere close to a defensive anchor.
> 
> 
> If we cannot pair 2 of those 4 together we really should postpone our spending until 2011. Bosh, Amare and Joe Johnson are not players you can build a franchise around. Bosh is a Gasol type player. As the leader of a team he may get us to the playoffs, but we won't be going anywhere in the postseason. Amare is a dominant offensive player, but he is atrocious on defense. Like Bosh he would get us to the playoffs, but our success in the postseason would not be there. If we end up with only Johnson I think it's likely we miss the postseason again. He is a borderline all-star, but he is a no show in big games/series and all the stuff coming out about him "not caring about the fans" isn't a positive either. If we pair Amare/Bosh with Johnson I could accept that offseason. With either combo we would be a playoff team and would probably jump into the top 4-5 teams in the East. Not necessarily a title contender, but a team who could possibly push for a conference finals appearance in the East depending on the role players.
> 
> 
> So an acceptable offseason would consist of the following signings:
> 
> -LeBron with Amare/Bosh/Wade
> -Wade with LeBron/Amare/Bosh
> -Bosh with LeBron/Wade
> -Amare with LeBron/Wade
> -Johnson with Amare/Bosh
> 
> If it is not any of those I say we either attempt to do a sign and trade with New Orleans (if CP3 is available) or wait until 2011 and go for Melo.


I feel we need to have a more dynamic Plan B than simply waiting around to spend next year. This is the season we sacrificed two first round picks and Jordan Hill for and we better make it worth the deal. I feel that we have not discussed trades as a possible method of improving this team along with free agent signings. We have approximately $19 million in salary committed to Eddy Curry, Danilo Gallinari, Wilson Chandler, Toney Douglas and Bill Walker with an additional $10 million cap hold on Lee's contract. There is ample enough talent among those aforementioned names to facilitate a type of trade to either: (1)a sign and trade for one of our free agents targets, (2) acquire a disgruntled all-star from another team e.g. Chris Paul, Dirk Nowitizki or (3)clear more cap space for a 3rd all-star free agent. Flexibility is the name of the game and we've got plenty, so why not actively use it to our full advantage?


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## Da Grinch

in light of george hill's emergence ...tony parker seems available or he should be .

to me if the knicks did all this and wound up with bosh and johnson i wouldn't find it worth it at all...but if you add parker(lets say for chandler and curry) ...that team at least competes in the east if a half decent big man is added to the mix.

parker 
joe johnson
gallo
bosh
half decent big like kurt thomas
with walker 
barron
douglas
2 2nd rounders
giddens


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## TwinkieFoot

Da Grinch said:


> in light of george hill's emergence ...tony parker seems available or he should be .
> 
> to me if the knicks did all this and wound up with bosh and johnson i wouldn't find it worth it at all...but if you add parker(lets say for chandler and curry) ...that team at least competes in the east if a half decent big man is added to the mix.
> 
> parker
> joe johnson
> gallo
> bosh
> half decent big like kurt thomas
> with walker
> barron
> douglas
> 2 2nd rounders
> giddens


I believe the Spurs asking price is a young and talented big man in exchange for Parker. We have none of our own, so I doubt a deal for him gets done. I think Raymond Felton would be an option for us at PG via free agency.

P.S., I noticed you didn't include T-Mac on your roster? Have you soured on him? He did say he'd be willing to sign for the minimum should we sign two all-star free agents. Although he was a shadow of himself this past season, a healthy McGrady is a fit and presents a number of mismatches against other teams.


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## Da Grinch

TwinkieFoot said:


> I believe the Spurs asking price is a young and talented big man in exchange for Parker. We have none of our own, so I doubt a deal for him gets done. I think Raymond Felton would be an option for us at PG via free agency.
> 
> P.S., I noticed you didn't include T-Mac on your roster? Have you soured on him? He did say he'd be willing to sign for the minimum should we sign two all-star free agents. Although he was a shadow of himself this past season, a healthy McGrady is a fit and presents a number of mismatches against other teams.


i dont think they get a talented big for parker(that old saying about trading big for small) ...nor do i think that should be their target...there is no way they get a big good enough to replace or take touches from Duncan....and they have some bigs anyway in blair, mahinmi and one overseas in tiago splitter

they really need either jefferson to play better or to replace him...thats something they can trade parker for.

as for t-mac i want to have faith in him but i dont ...if he comes back as a knick it means they failed badly this summer ...so in the spirit of hope i dont include him anymore.


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## TwinkieFoot

Da Grinch said:


> i dont think they get a talented big for parker(that old saying about trading big for small) ...nor do i think that should be their target...there is no way they get a big good enough to replace or take touches from Duncan....and they have some bigs anyway in blair, mahinmi and one overseas in tiago splitter
> 
> they really need either jefferson to play better or to replace him...thats something they can trade parker for.
> 
> *as for t-mac i want to have faith in him but i dont ...if he comes back as a knick it means they failed badly this summer ...so in the spirit of hope i dont include him anymore*.


Even if he is not back to his 25ppg, 6rpg and 6apg self, T-Mac at the minimum is still a bargain. His old instincts are still there as well as all the skill. The only thing that is really holding him back is that knee. Although players from his surgery have gone either way, the most recent all have recovered albiet over a lengthy period of time (Kidd, Amare, Martin). T-Mac as we know him might be back as a player at the beginning of next season which is basically 5 months away. For the minimum, I think the guy is a MUST and is the perfect compliment to LeBron James at the 2 spot. I'd want a capable backup (Mike Miller)-that can play both swingman positions- but I think we need to resign T-Mac regardless.


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