# Bulls still after SG



## bullsger (Jan 14, 2003)

ESPN Insider



> It's been reported for a while now that the Bulls are looking for an upgrade a shooting guard. And Chris Mannix of Sports Illustrated tweeted Saturday that team executives are saying the Bulls, along with the Magic (who are looking for size), are the two most active teams now.
> 
> [...]
> 
> ...


So, what do you think? I don't see a chance for JR Smith with the Bulls. And Redick? Can the Bulls trade for him after the Magic matched the Bulls offer sheet this summer?
Best chances for the Bulls are for Gibson and Parker.


----------



## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

I would love to upgrade 2g. Out of that list smith Reddick and Mayo are the only ones I would trade for. And mostly Mayo. But I am guessing we would have to trade Korver in any move we make. Is K Thomas making Taj expendable? Korver and Gibson for Mayo and Arthur?


----------



## Merk (May 24, 2006)

OJ Mayo please


----------



## TwinkieTowers (Jul 16, 2002)

Stephen Jackson is already available. As long as Jordan isn't asking for their pick back I'd get him over anyone on that list.


----------



## PD (Sep 10, 2004)

Do we have the personality to calm down Jackson? If so, I am all for it. Outside of the box: Billups? He can handle, shoot, defend, provide leadership and experience, and again DEFEND. Billups for JJ, Brewer, Watson, and a 2nd round pick.


----------



## Deep Sound Channel (Apr 28, 2010)

PD said:


> Do we have the personality to calm down Jackson? If so, I am all for it. Outside of the box: Billups? He can handle, shoot, defend, provide leadership and experience, and again DEFEND. Billups for JJ, Brewer, Watson, and a 2nd round pick.


Yes! I want that! 

Well, if we can't get OJ Mayo.:baseldance:


----------



## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

Bobcat's pick + filler for Mayo. 

Memphis will cave eventually, IMO. Just hope it's before the trading deadline.


----------



## BullsBaller (Oct 6, 2002)

I say we make a deal with Orlando acquiring Duhon. They no longer need him and I think they would be willing to take back Bogans. He has a low salary, so it is ok if he just sits on the bench and he has been known as a pretty good defender. He's guarded Wade pretty well in the past, so 15 minutes of that each game in the playoffs is all they need out of him.

We would move Watson to the 2 for the 2nd unit with Duhon at point and Brewer would start.

I do not want to give up that Charlotte pick people. It looks 2 good. For Mayo, then maybe.

Also, it would be nice if we could pry away Ryan Anderson from Orlando as well.


----------



## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

BullsBaller said:


> I say we make a deal with Orlando acquiring Duhon. They no longer need him and I think they would be willing to take back Bogans. He has a low salary, so it is ok if he just sits on the bench and he has been known as a pretty good defender. He's guarded Wade pretty well in the past, so 15 minutes of that each game in the playoffs is all they need out of him.
> 
> We would move Watson to the 2 for the 2nd unit with Duhon at point and Brewer would start.
> 
> ...


I like Duhon as a backup PG, but I don't think he solves the main need now of someone at the 2 with a reasonable jump shot. If you move Brewer to starting 2 guard, he doesn't really provide that.


----------



## mvP to the Wee (Jul 14, 2007)

Grizzlies want Asik, Charlotte pick, Gibson, Johnson for Mayo. If I'm the Bulls I'd just ask them to add Arthur and call it a deal or ask for Asik to be removed from the deal and just do it.

PG-Rose/Watson
SG-Mayo/Brewer
SF-Deng/Korver/Brewer
PF-Boozer/Arthur(or Noah)/Deng
C-Noah/Asik


----------



## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

P to the Wee said:


> Grizzlies want Asik, Charlotte pick, Gibson, Johnson for Mayo. If I'm the Bulls I'd just ask them to add Arthur and call it a deal or ask for Asik to be removed from the deal and just do it.
> 
> PG-Rose/Watson
> SG-Mayo/Brewer
> ...


On pure talent Its a reasonable request. I just think we _have_ to include Bogans and remove Asik. They also have to give us a big that can play some minutes.

But if it were me I would like to see Brewer in that starting role before we shook up the team. If Brewer can do the job then I would keep this team intact. 

I also don't think you can pull the trigger on this trade unless you are willing to give Mayo an extension when the time comes. Because if we pull the trigger on this trade we still need to sign an MLE big in the offseason. And if Mayo is the good starting 2g that we would have to believe him to be are we going to pay him the 10 mil per he will likeley require?

Would JR be willing to long term add a MLE big + Mayo's big extension? Otherwise I'd rather just keep this team together. 

But if all of my issues with it are addressed, then it certainly is an intriguing deal. Mayo could potentially be our long term solution at the 2. But it's a gamble.


----------



## narek (Jul 29, 2005)

An update on the trade talk from John Jackson:



> But despite a slew of names circulating on the Internet *— Stephen Jackson and O.J. Mayo being the most prominent — it appears the trio of Keith Bogans, Ronnie Brewer and Kyle Korver will continue to log most of the minutes for the time being.
> 
> According to an NBA source, no deal is imminent or even likely — even though the Bulls have had recent talks with a few teams.
> 
> Although professional sports is a business in which teams standing pat often are passed by, making no move makes the most sense for the Bulls because none of the scenarios being thrown out would make them championship contenders.


http://www.suntimes.com/sports/basketball/bulls/3073794-419/bulls-guard-jackson-deal-cap.html


----------



## TwinkieTowers (Jul 16, 2002)

That Charlotte pick could be extremely valuable once it gets to unprotected status and if the Bobcats remain in the lottery. The next LeBron James, Tim Duncan, or Shaq could very well come along in 2014, and if the Grizzlies end up getting him because the Bulls essentially traded him for OJ Mayo, the Bulls would never hear the end of it (at least, if no championship has been won).

However, all this backlash could be negated if the Bulls don't extend Mayo and are able to land Dwight Howard in 2012.


----------



## PD (Sep 10, 2004)

We definitely are not trading the pick for any average player. It is not easy to build an NBA team even if the owner is MJ (Wizards). If we can't find a SG through the FA, wait till the summer to use the MLE for a guy like Shannon Brown.


----------



## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

P to the Wee said:


> Grizzlies want Asik, Charlotte pick, Gibson, Johnson for Mayo. If I'm the Bulls I'd just ask them to add Arthur and call it a deal or ask for Asik to be removed from the deal and just do it.
> 
> PG-Rose/Watson
> SG-Mayo/Brewer
> ...


its completely fair what the grizzlies are asking for ....but it would likely hurt the bulls to give up asik and gibson than it would help to get mayo until noah gets back .

the idea of heavy minutes for thomas to me is an impending disaster , as is playing extended smallball with boozer at the 5 and deng at the 4. defensive scheming even with Thibs can only expected to do so much.

at this time as much as it hurts me to say it ...i would pass unless the bulls either gave up less bigs or could attain at least 1 capable of giving decent minutes some other way.


----------



## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

TwinkieTowers said:


> That Charlotte pick could be extremely valuable once it gets to unprotected status and if the Bobcats remain in the lottery. The next LeBron James, Tim Duncan, or Shaq could very well come along in 2014, and if the Grizzlies end up getting him because the Bulls essentially traded him for OJ Mayo, the Bulls would never hear the end of it (at least, if no championship has been won).
> 
> However, all this backlash could be negated if the Bulls don't extend Mayo and are able to land Dwight Howard in 2012.


The chances of the Cats' pick turning into the next big superstar is pretty unlikely if you look at the protection rules attached to us getting the pick. 

Chances are good that it turns into a top 10 pick, but expecting a top 5 or better seems pretty far fetched. For that reason I could swallow the small risk of losing a potential star.

The more important thing would be getting a top caliber TEAM, and I believe Mayo allows that to happen.


----------



## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

One more random thought...

I keep telling myself that we just need a Raja Bell or Doug Christie type player to be real contenders -- a big guard who plays good D, passes the ball well, and can hit the 3-ball. Doesn't sound like much, you would think players like that come a dime a dozen from the college ranks. Why are they such a rarity, and why are we having a hard time finding one?


----------



## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

yodurk said:


> One more random thought...
> 
> I keep telling myself that we just need a Raja Bell or Doug Christie type player to be real contenders -- a big guard who plays good D, passes the ball well, and can hit the 3-ball. Doesn't sound like much, you would think players like that come a dime a dozen from the college ranks. Why are they such a rarity, and why are we having a hard time finding one?



I don't feel like they used to be a rarity, but for whatever reason, the market does seem really thin for available talent at that position at the moment. This is why I haven't really been thinking trading for a 2 must happen. All the major targets (Mayo, Smith, Jackson) seem to have fairly significant drawbacks. I do think the issue needs to be addressed, but I'm ok waiting for the moment to see of something better doesn't develop closer to the deadline. I'm a bit underwhelmed at the various deals that have been discussed so far.


----------



## BullsBaller (Oct 6, 2002)

TwinkieTowers said:


> That Charlotte pick could be extremely valuable once it gets to unprotected status and if the Bobcats remain in the lottery. The next LeBron James, Tim Duncan, or Shaq could very well come along in 2014, and if the Grizzlies end up getting him because the Bulls essentially traded him for OJ Mayo, the Bulls would never hear the end of it (at least, if no championship has been won).
> 
> However, all this backlash could be negated if the Bulls don't extend Mayo and are able to land Dwight Howard in 2012.


That is exactly how I feel. I really like Taj as our backup PF, but to me, that pick is actually worth more because of what it could yield. I would much rather trade Taj than that pick now.

Once again, it might be MJ that helps us win another championship!


----------



## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

yodurk said:


> One more random thought...
> 
> I keep telling myself that we just need a Raja Bell or Doug Christie type player to be real contenders -- a big guard who plays good D, passes the ball well, and can hit the 3-ball. Doesn't sound like much, you would think players like that come a dime a dozen from the college ranks. Why are they such a rarity, and why are we having a hard time finding one?


for the same reason finding a decent sized big who can hit a jumpshot , rebound and block shots are ...you wouldn't think that hitting a 3 being able to handle the ball and playing defense is more likely to be found in star players than role players but it is.

reason 152 why trading kirk was a bad idea, he really was a rather rare commodity even if the sum of his parts added up to an avg. starter.


----------



## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

Da Grinch said:


> for the same reason finding a decent sized big who can hit a jumpshot , rebound and block shots are ...you wouldn't think that hitting a 3 being able to handle the ball and playing defense is more likely to be found in star players than role players but it is.


IMO, big men are different though. There are far fewer guys who are 6'10 to 7-feet who have anything resembling NBA athleticism.

The NCAA must have 100+ guys who are 6'4-6'6 with decent athleticism. Take the top 20% skill-wise from that pool, and surely you'll find some good shooters/scorers who have some bball IQ.

JNR just said it, the NBA is just having a lull at the SG spot these days. We're witnessing a PG-dominated era. I guess the SG spot is what's suffering as a result.



> reason 152 why trading kirk was a bad idea, he really was a rather rare commodity even if the sum of his parts added up to an avg. starter.


I would love to have Kirk at SG. While he's average overall, he fills every gap at the position for us: defense, 3-ball, secondary ballhandler/passer. The problem though is his salary. I'm unsure if we could've signed Korver, and we definitely couldn't have signed both Korver & Brewer. Let alone filling out the bench w/ Watson (although I guess we wouldn't need Watson in that scenario).


----------



## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

yodurk said:


> IMO, big men are different though. There are far fewer guys who are 6'10 to 7-feet who have anything resembling NBA athleticism.
> 
> The NCAA must have 100+ guys who are 6'4-6'6 with decent athleticism. Take the top 20% skill-wise from that pool, and surely you'll find some good shooters/scorers who have some bball IQ.
> 
> ...


true complete players are rare , even if they have the ability , players tend to specialize anyway.

there are maybe 2 starting caliber 2's in the conference who can legitimately play good defense , shoot well enough from the outside to provide spacing and handle the ball well enough to play pg decently...the other i can think is joe johnson....maybe you stretch in landry fields

even top 2's like wade fall short in 1 way or another 

that paxson overpaid then has cost the team in various ways since then, for one all the players who considered themselves better than kirk used his salary as a starting point in negotiations.

for salary purposes korver, 5 mil. brewer 4.79 mil. watson 3.1 mil. thats almost 13 mil for what kirk does for 9, and truthfully the holes in their games are often as problematic as positives they bring...it really is oftem more a matter of coaching and situations than their individual talents that tell the tale on how effective they are.

the simple truth is they changed the rules to make pg's more relevant , if more talented bigs emerge they will change the rules to capitalize on that to make the game more viewable.


----------



## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

Da Grinch said:


> for salary purposes korver, 5 mil. brewer 4.79 mil. watson 3.1 mil. thats almost 13 mil for what kirk does for 9,



Crazy talk. Korver + Brewer + Watson does not = Kirk


----------



## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

jnrjr79 said:


> Crazy talk. Korver + Brewer + Watson does not = Kirk


no , its actually worse than kirk.

kirk= starting guard in the nba

korver , brewer and watson = 3 bench players of varying degrees of effectiveness.

if kirk was magically transplanted on the bulls roster , he would play ahead of all of them and none of them would see minutes in the 4th, and watson might never leave the bench.

play play pg so when defenses would have a harder time at times focuses too much on rose , thibs would have the option of playing rose off the ball.

he's good defender

he can hit a 3 

and all at the same time, no need to switch offense, defense.

and i say this knowing korver, is a better shooter and brewer might be a better defender, but the trio's lack of versatility makes kirk better than them.


----------



## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

Da Grinch said:


> no , its actually worse than kirk.
> 
> kirk= starting guard in the nba
> 
> ...


I like Kirk as much as the next guy. But it's almost like you ignore what Kirk really was doing for us when he was here last year...

Dude played 34 mpg and scored 11 ppg. He shot 41% from the field and 37% from the 3pt line, he almost never got to the ft line because every shot he took was a long jumper. He posted an 11.6 PER. He was most valuable as a defensive guard and yet was undersized for his position and not a natural 2 at all (which hurt his defense).

He was a nice player that was better than his stats and on a team that had no other options at the 2 he was a reasonable solution. But let's not pretend that he was a legit starting 2g in the NBA. I don't even think he is a better 2 then Brewer. 

I think you are remembering him for more than what he was.


----------



## BullsBaller (Oct 6, 2002)

If we don't have our backup PG spot solved in 2 years, there is a pretty good chance that Kirk would be willing to sign for the MLE and come back to the team that drafted him. That is unless he still wants to start at that stage in his career.


----------



## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

caseyrh said:


> I like Kirk as much as the next guy. But it's almost like you ignore what Kirk really was doing for us when he was here last year...
> 
> Dude played 34 mpg and scored 11 ppg. He shot 41% from the field and 37% from the 3pt line, he almost never got to the ft line because every shot he took was a long jumper. He posted an 11.6 PER. He was most valuable as a defensive guard and yet was undersized for his position and not a natural 2 at all (which hurt his defense).
> 
> ...



This.


----------

