# Jerry West loses Stromile Swift for absolutely nothing



## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

Nothing
Nada
Zip
Zero
Zilch

:greatjob: Jerry.


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## Drk Element (Nov 10, 2004)

Oh Jerry why do you torture the Grizz fans like this? why?


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## thaKEAF (Mar 8, 2004)

Really stupid. I don't know about you guys, but I'm starting to wonder how much longer Jerry NEEDS to stay the GM. First he signs Brian F'N Cardinal for all that money last summer, and now he lets a player with great potential like Stro go to a DIVISION RIVAL for nothing. We might be dealing with this same kinda thing in a few days, do you think we will get anything for Bonzi?


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

thaKEAF said:


> do you think we will get anything for Bonzi?


No.

The 22nd is right around the corner. Bonzi's going to be unrestricted, and the Clippers will promptly snatch him up.


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

*The Logo*


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## eddo (Jul 17, 2005)

I am not concerned with the loss of Stro - even if it was for nothing. He won't remember their plays either. He'll get a few spectacular dunks but won't be an allstar anytime soon. And it will clear up congestion and dissention on our bench. He was not the future of the Grizz so let's cut our ties (and payroll) and move on with TRADING Bonzi and someone else for a big or a fearless scorer.


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## bwell (Jul 4, 2005)

The primary purpose of this off season was to find a big man and trim the payroll. Unless the Rockets were going to include Yao in a S&T, then Jerry did right by not trying to take on more contracts.


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

bwell said:


> The primary purpose of this off season was to find a big man and trim the payroll. Unless the Rockets were going to include Yao in a S&T, then Jerry did right by not trying to take on more contracts.


Could have taken an expiring contract and a 1st round pick.


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## Zeus (Jul 1, 2002)

Rawse said:


> Nothing
> Nada
> Zip
> Zero
> ...


first of all, do you have all the facts? no.

second of all, Swift is an unrestricted free agent, he could sign for the MLE with any team that HE chooses. so IF he signed for the MLE with Houston, there would be nothing that the Grizzlies could have done.

but don't let facts get in the way of your Jerry-bashing.

same goes for Memphis X.


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## CrackerJack (Jul 2, 2005)

its great how our divisional rivals are in dis-array the upcoming roster for next season might look pretty depleted


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

Zeus said:


> first of all, do you have all the facts? no.
> 
> second of all, Swift is an unrestricted free agent, he could sign for the MLE with any team that HE chooses. so IF he signed for the MLE with Houston, there would be nothing that the Grizzlies could have done.
> 
> ...


First of all, the uppity tone in all your posts. Lose it.

Second of all, we could have locked up Stromile _last_ offseason or, knowing that he would have been an unrestricted free agent by accepting the qualifying offer, we could have traded him before this was all a possibility. We all know we could have had Erick Dampier, but we balked at taking on Evan Eschmeyer's rather paltry salary. There were likely many other offers on the table.

And before we all crack on Dampier, who has way too many haters on this board, take a look at how he protected Dirk last year. He had a career year even without Nash. Dampier wouldn't have meant a title, or maybe not even the second round, but he'd have been an upgrade, and we wouldn't have lost him for nothing.

This all could have been avoided a year ago. But tell me, what are the _real_ facts?


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

CrackerJack said:


> its great how our divisional rivals are in dis-array the upcoming roster for next season might look pretty depleted


The only thing Memphis is losing is all the locker room tumors. Most of them have already been replaced in the depth charts by guys who will become better NBA players. I'm not sad to see any of them go, and I'd help Stro pack if I could. It's just very disappointing to see us not get anything for them.


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## Zeus (Jul 1, 2002)

Rawse said:


> Second of all, we could have locked up Stromile _last_ offseason or, knowing that he would have been an unrestricted free agent by accepting the qualifying offer, we could have traded him before this was all a possibility. We all know we could have had Erick Dampier, but we balked at taking on Evan Eschmeyer's rather paltry salary. There were likely many other offers on the table.


perhaps you've forgotten that we _did_ make an offer to Stro last year - one that would've netted him more than this year's MLE - and he refused it, thinking that he would be able to get more as an unrestricted free agent. like your first post, this is another example of your refusing to acknowledge that STRO was the one making the decisions - not the Grizzlies. kind of hard to lock a guy up when he won't sign. 

yeah, i'd balk on Eschmeyer, too. of course, if we had taken him on, then we'd hear what a bad move it was.  

so you say we could've traded Swift... you don't know that one way or the other. pure speculation. "There were likely many other offers on the table." again, pure speculation.



> This all could have been avoided a year ago. But tell me, what are the _real_ facts?


you have no idea what sign and trade offers we made to Houston, or New Jersey, New York, or anyone else. you fail to take into consideration that we might have been on the receiving end of some crappy offers. you fail to acknowledge that maybe it works out good for us; we don't take on any bad contracts, or fill up on more role players. so what do we get? we got some cap space without taking on additional salary - which we would've had to do with a S&T. i don't consider that "nothing". but ultimately, you fail to acknowledge that Stro controlled his destiny, not the Grizzlies. if Stro decided that he wanted to play for the MLE, then there is/was nothing that the Grizzlies could do about it. 

no, let's not give the Grizzlies any benefit of the doubt...gets in the way of the Jerry bashing...


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

Zeus said:


> no, let's not give the Grizzlies any benefit of the doubt...gets in the way of the Jerry bashing...


No let's not. Instead we should use fantasy suppositions to hope Jerry West has done anything. There is only one _fact_ and that is Jerry West cannot get the job done. Now you can choose to blame all the other teams in the NBA's fear of West, but I will use common sense and say that the one common denominator in every failed deal is Jerry West.


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## Zeus (Jul 1, 2002)

what job do you mean? turning the worst NBA team into a playoff team? that's not a fantasy supposition, that's a fact. before Jerry came on board, the most games the team had won in a season was 23; after Jerry joined the Grizzlies, the team has been to the playoffs two years in a row and has won 50 and 45 games. that's not fantasy supposition.

fantasy supposition would be saying, "we could've gotten more for Swift". fantasy suppostion would be thinking that just because Jerry came to Mempihs, then Kobe and/or Shaq would surely follow. fantasy suppostion would be my thinking that you wouldn't bash Jerry if we had commenced an S&T with Swift resulting in the Grizzlies taking on more salaries for role players. i've read many of your posts both here and at the Grizzlies' board, and i would never accuse you of using common sense.


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

Zeus said:


> what job do you mean? turning the worst NBA team into a playoff team? that's not a fantasy supposition, that's a fact. before Jerry came on board, the most games the team had won in a season was 23; after Jerry joined the Grizzlies, the team has been to the playoffs two years in a row and has won 50 and 45 games. that's not fantasy supposition.
> 
> fantasy supposition would be saying, "we could've gotten more for Swift". fantasy suppostion would be thinking that just because Jerry came to Mempihs, then Kobe and/or Shaq would surely follow. fantasy suppostion would be my thinking that you wouldn't bash Jerry if we had commenced an S&T with Swift resulting in the Grizzlies taking on more salaries for role players. i've read many of your posts both here and at the Grizzlies' board, and i would never accuse you of using common sense.


So you tell me how many starters on these teams Jerry West acquired? How many All Stars Jerry West has added to the roster? How many more playoff wins we have had since he came. Heck, the Clippers have lucked up and made the playoffs a couple of times without even trying. 

And Chicago was the worse team in the NBA when Jerry West took over. They have also made the playoffs, heck the were the 3rd best team in their conference. Making the playoffs in a league where more than half the teams make the playoffs is not the glowing accomplishment you make it out to be. However, if you want to stipulate that Jerry West is at least better than Stu Jackson...I agree.

P.S. How is it fantasy supposition to think we could have gotten more for Swift, it is impossible to get less. :eek8:


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

Projected starting lineup for the Grizzlies: 4 offseason after Jerry West.

PG Jason Williams - acquired by Billy Knight
SG Mike Miller - acquired by Jerry West
SF Shane Battier - Drafted by Billy Knight
PF Pau Gasol - acquired by Billy Knight
C Lorenzen Wright - acquired by Billy Knight

Heck, I have to wonder...If Mike Dickerson doesn't get hurt would we have our entire starting 5 coming pre-Jerry West....I think so.


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

Zeus said:


> perhaps you've forgotten that we _did_ make an offer to Stro last year - one that would've netted him more than this year's MLE - and he refused it, thinking that he would be able to get more as an unrestricted free agent.


That's Stro's bad, and I'm not putting that on Jerry. But, looking at that situation and seeing that your player - who could walk for nothing in one year - is wanting to be grossly overpaid, what do you do? Trade him!



> like your first post, this is another example of your refusing to acknowledge that STRO was the one making the decisions - not the Grizzlies. kind of hard to lock a guy up when he won't sign.


We had a deal on the table with Golden State and didn't take it, because we didn't want to give money to a guy who got almost as much burn when he retired as Jake (who we wound up paying) did this year.



> yeah, i'd balk on Eschmeyer, too. of course, if we had taken him on, then we'd hear what a bad move it was.


Wrong again. I just may be the biggest non-Dallas Dampier fan on the board.

And also, even if Dampier was a drip in the playoffs against Amare for us instead of the Mavs, I wouldn't be blaming West. Because in getting Dampier, he would have addressed a need and did what he said he was going to do.

At least he'd be taking a risk instead of kicking back with what we have. This team's only better than 50-55 percent of the league - that's not something we should throw a parade over. Better to try and fail than to not try at all.



> so you say we could've traded Swift... you don't know that one way or the other. pure speculation. "There were likely many other offers on the table." again, pure speculation.


Well, we know for certain that at least one team was interested in a trade last offseason.

Do you know for sure that there _weren't_ deals we passed on? It's pretty easy to base your argument on something that only Jerry West and select people in the Memphis front office actually know. It's speculation, but it's an educated guess. I'm not just throwing this out there to bash West and get my jollies. He's been gunshy and timid on making deals of this magnitude in the recent past, and I don't think it's a stretch to think that he would have just bypassed another. If Kwame Brown can fetch Caron Butler, then you know good and well that Stromile was tradeable. It's just a matter of finding a trading partner - that's West's _job_.



> you have no idea what sign and trade offers we made to Houston, or New Jersey, New York, or anyone else. you fail to take into consideration that we might have been on the receiving end of some crappy offers.


Or maybe good offers. I don't know. You don't know. So let's not call me on the carpet for something you're guilty of, too. But just because Stro walked for nothing doesn't automatically mean that West did everything in his power to get something out of it.



> you fail to acknowledge that maybe it works out good for us; we don't take on any bad contracts, or fill up on more role players. so what do we get? we got some cap space without taking on additional salary - which we would've had to do with a S&T. i don't consider that "nothing". but ultimately, you fail to acknowledge that Stro controlled his destiny, not the Grizzlies. if Stro decided that he wanted to play for the MLE, then there is/was nothing that the Grizzlies could do about it.


Losing Stro was a year in the making. He controlled his destiny this year, but if he wanted more money than the Nets, Knicks or Rockets could pay him, then he would have had to rely on us in a major way. We could have done something about this last season. We chose not to. And as you can tell from the last 20 games of the season, being conservative, timid and slow-on-the-trigger really worked out great for us, didn't it?



> no, let's not give the Grizzlies any benefit of the doubt...gets in the way of the Jerry bashing...


Before you start crusading for the Logo, I think you might want to figure out who here actually has an agenda against him, as opposed to just looking at the track record since last June.

West did a fantastic job of getting us into the playoffs because he wasn't afraid to make moves and be the slightest bit ballsy, which isn't to say he didn't make mistakes. Judging from your posts here the last week, I think it's safe to say you think of me as someone who won't acknowledge the good things West has done for the franchise. You're wrong, and you can dig up all the good things I've had to say about the Logo on this forum.

It turns out that you're the one with a set viewpoint. One that no amount of bad decisions can budge you from.

Let's examine the last year:

Stromile becomes a RFA and wants somewhere in the neighborhood of $50M-$60M. We countered with a three-year deal worth in between $25M-$30M, which he declines.
Dampier opts out of his contract.
We need a center.
Fans are clamoring for a center.
The Memphis media is clamoring for a center.
Jerry West himself says that we are pursuing a center.
A deal is proposed with Golden State that would send Swift, who isn't resigning for what we want, to the Warriors for Dampier and soon-to-retire Evan Eschmeyer, who has something like two years, $7M left on his deal.
Jerry balks at taking on Eschmeyer's contract and nixes the deal, instead paying around the same amount of money to Jake Tsakalidis, who was about as effective on the floor as Esch was on his couch.
Memphis is among the worst in the league in 2004-2005 in total rebounds and rebound margin, and we're swept for the exact same reason we got swept the year before.
Stromile leaves for Houston for about half of what he was demanding the season before.

It sucks that Stromile decided himself to ditch the team like he did, after a year of sulking, slacking off and milking injuries. But the Grizzlies had the opportunity to do something about it a year before, and they didn't. West was seemingly scared to do anything with the team in 2004-2005 after saying last offseason that moves would be made, players would be traded, needs would be filled. We just wound up running in place all year, before things came crashing down in May.

I'm not slamming West because I have an agenda against him. Nor is MemphisX. We're being realistic and looking at the moves made compared to what has been said what would be done. Jerry West isn't the worst GM of all-time. It's not like I long for the days where we'd trade the No. 2 overall pick for Otis Thorpe. But West isn't protected from blame just because he's Jerry West.

If deals _couldn't_ be made or _weren't_ on the table, then I look forward to the day we get a GM who can get us to the next level. Because Jerry - and his seeming lethargy lately - isn't showing that he's that GM.


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## sherwin (Mar 21, 2005)

lol @ you all who don't understand unrestricted free agency.


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## Zeus (Jul 1, 2002)

MemphisX said:


> So you tell me how many starters on these teams Jerry West acquired? How many All Stars Jerry West has added to the roster?


excuse me, but what do starters have to do with it? Jerry upgraded our talent and depth. that's another fact. that talent and depth were vital to the team making the playoffs both years. of course, you have to say "starters" because you believe that's another angle to bash Jerry on.



> How many more playoff wins we have had since he came.


 you're kidding, right? the worst NBA team gets to the playoffs, and you can't even appreciate that??? we didn't get to the playoffs purely on luck.



> And Chicago was the worse team in the NBA when Jerry West took over.


i'm not talking about one year; historically, the Grizzlies were the worst team in the NBA. look at their season records, win %, etc., before Jerry joined.


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## Zeus (Jul 1, 2002)

Rawse said:


> That's Stro's bad, and I'm not putting that on Jerry. But, looking at that situation and seeing that your player - who could walk for nothing in one year - is wanting to be grossly overpaid, what do you do? Trade him!


umm...once Stro signed the Grizzlies qualifying offer, *he could no longer be traded!!!!* 



> Wrong again. I just may be the biggest non-Dallas Dampier fan on the board.
> 
> And also, even if Dampier was a drip in the playoffs against Amare for us instead of the Mavs, I wouldn't be blaming West. Because in getting Dampier, he would have addressed a need and did what he said he was going to do.


 again, you're focusing on Dampier??? the sticking point was Eschmeyer, wasn't it? that would be a bad salary to be taking on, especially for a guy who Dallas immediately tried to buy his contract, and especially since we were already over the cap.



> If Kwame Brown can fetch Caron Butler, then you know good and well that Stromile was tradeable. It's just a matter of finding a trading partner - that's West's _job_.


just because Washington took Caron, doesn't mean that they would've taken Stro. the transitive property just does not work in these scenarios. as far as trading partner, you forgot to use the qualifying, "willing". if Washington wasn't willing to deal with us, then we certainly couldn't have forced them to, now could we?



> Or maybe good offers. I don't know. You don't know. So let's not call me on the carpet for something you're guilty of, too.


 the difference is that i accept that there may have been good offers; i'm not ignoring that possibility. i try to see all the possibilities and angles. however, if Stro was willing to sign for the MLE, as he apparently did, then any S&T discussion is moot.



> Losing Stro was a year in the making. He controlled his destiny this year, but if he wanted more money than the Nets, Knicks or Rockets could pay him, then he would have had to rely on us in a major way.


and he controlled his destiny last year too, when he signed the qualifying offer but did not agree to a new contract with the Grizzlies.



> We could have done something about this last season. We chose not to.


that is incorrect. we offered Stro a contract and he didn't take it. as i said above, after he signed the qualifying offer, he could not be traded.





> Before you start crusading for the Logo, I think you might want to figure out who here actually has an agenda against him, as opposed to just looking at the track record since last June.


it isn't crusdaing for the Logo, it's about having an objective outlook. it's about having perspective.


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

Zeus said:


> umm...once Stro signed the Grizzlies qualifying offer, *he could no longer be traded!!!!*


Goddamn, man. I'm talking about before that. I can't type any slower for you.



> again, you're focusing on Dampier??? the sticking point was Eschmeyer, wasn't it? that would be a bad salary to be taking on, especially since we were already over the cap.


****. Do you understand any of this at all? We resigned Jake to a longer deal for an amount similar to what Eschmeyer was being paid. So much for counting pennies when we're over the cap. How valuable was Jake this season?



> just because Washington took Caron, doesn't mean that they would've taken Stro. the transitive property just does not work in these scenarios. as far as trading partner, you forgot to use the qualifying, "willing". if Washington wasn't willing to deal with us, then we certainly couldn't have forced them to, now could we?


I'm convinced that you have no reading comprehension at all. Washington had nothing to do with the point I was making. If there was a trade market out there for Brown, I have to believe there was one out there for Stromile.




> the difference is that i accept that there may have been good offers; i'm not ignoring that possibility. i try to see all the possibilities and angles. however, if Stro was willing to sign for the MLE, as he apparently did, then any S&T discussion is moot.


And we've all seen that possibility out there for a year now. Everyone here knew that coming into this offseason, there was a chance we get nothing for Swift, after not being proactive dealing him last offseason.




> and he controlled his destiny last year too, when he signed the qualifying offer but did not agree to a new contract with the Grizzlies.
> 
> 
> 
> that is incorrect. we offered Stro a contract and he didn't take it. as i said above, after he signed the qualifying offer, he could not be traded.


Apparently, the Warriors must have made him an offer he liked. The only thing that prevented the deal from going down was West not wanting Eschmeyer.

I've been over all of this.




> it isn't crusdaing for the Logo, it's about having an objective outlook. it's about having perspective.


Just like it isn't crusading against the Logo. It's about me having an objective outlook - with perspective - that led me to a different conclusion than you.

That's possible, y'know...


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

Rawse said:


> Goddamn, man. I'm talking about before that. I can't type any slower for you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Rawse, do you think they are comfortable and think that what he gave them they can get out of Hakim?


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

BEEZ said:


> Rawse, do you think they are comfortable and think that what he gave them they can get out of Hakim?


It's likely. Honestly, I think Warrick will turn out to be a better NBA player than Swift, because he has an infinitely better work ethic. And from all reports, he likes the game of basketball, which is probably where that work ethic comes from.

Stromile doesn't have any desire to be better because he and basketball just don't mix. And I base this opinion just from talking to people around Stromile. He's the type of guy who would be much more at ease laying back and playing video games all day instead of working on his post game or jump shot. Nothing really wrong with that, it just means that it's not in his blood. He's not an intense personality.

However, just because we have a more suitable backup is not a valid excuse for losing a guy who has (or had) trade value. I would have been content with just a draft pick...an expiring salary...anything, really. Any kind of sign from the front office that they're on top of things would be great.


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

So basically the cheer is "At least we aren't the worst team in the league!"

Jerry West's greatest acquisition was Hubie Brown and for that I thank him.

However, let's look at this upgraded bench:

James Posey - a wonderful acquisition that played great for exactly 1/2 season. Played much better than expected but we paid him more than any other team was offering.

Brian Cardinal - we overpaid to get him and his production didn't meet his salary

Jake Tsakalidis - Jerry West matched an offer sheet given by the worst GM in basketball for a player that didn't contribute anything to the team.

Dahntay Jones - Good player but a Josh Howard was available.

Antonio Burks, Hakim Warrick, Andre Emmett, Lawrence Roberts - Unproven 

Our great bench consists of three overpaid role players, a little used SG and 4 unproven players (three of which are 2nd round picks). I fail to see some grondbreaking player that every other team in the league does not get for what they give...


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## Zeus (Jul 1, 2002)

MemphisX said:


> So basically the cheer is "At least we aren't the worst team in the league!"
> 
> Jerry West's greatest acquisition was Hubie Brown and for that I thank him.
> 
> ...


you also forgot Wesley Person, Earl Watson, Bonzi Wells, and Bo Outlaw. look, i'm not going to deny that we've topped out with our talent. we absolutely have. regardless of what today's talent is compared to the rest of the league, it is infinitely better than what it was the day West was hired. Hubie may have been West's greatest acquisition (and I'd agree with that), but it was Jerry that gave Hubie depth. as for Jake, while he may not have gotten the minutes he was there for depth. we missed out on our big men last year, and it would've been fatal if we had just let him go to the Cavs. we had to match their offer.

yes, we payed Posey more than what other teams were offering. how do you think we landed him? we're the smallest market in the league; our city doesn't have the lure of New York, L.A., or Miami. offering a little more pay makes us competitive in landing free agents; it's one of the few advantages we can use. besides, at the time, Heisley didn't mind being penalized with the luxury tax. regardless, Posey was an upgrade in talent and depth, and he was vital in getting us to the playoffs. 

you have no perspective on where this team was before Jerry, and as a result, can't appreciate the accomplishments.


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## TracywtFacy (Mar 29, 2005)

Sounds like your GM turned out to be a bit of a loser, but it's a tough game, and there's alot of luck involved, as no-one can predict the future. All the Rox fans are loving our Carroll Dawson at the moment, most notably over the blockbuster TMac trade, but who knew it could have turned out so good for us? Getting Stro is another gamble for us, as he seems almost as much maligned there in Memphis as TMac was when he was in Orlando. If we're lucky he'll do what TMac did and make the team better. If not, then we're screwed.

It's all a gamble...


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## tenkev (Jun 12, 2002)

Hows the weed in Houston? If its as good as my friend says the Stro Show will gain 25 pounds off of Funions and Twinkies.


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## Zeus (Jul 1, 2002)

TracywtFacy said:


> Sounds like your GM turned out to be a bit of a loser, but it's a tough game, and there's alot of luck involved, as no-one can predict the future. All the Rox fans are loving our Carroll Dawson at the moment, most notably over the blockbuster TMac trade, but who knew it could have turned out so good for us? Getting Stro is another gamble for us, as he seems almost as much maligned there in Memphis as TMac was when he was in Orlando. If we're lucky he'll do what TMac did and make the team better. If not, then we're screwed.
> 
> It's all a gamble...


not even comparable. TMac may have phoned in his last season in Orlando, but the guy can produce when he wants to. Stro, on the other hand... well, the most common word you hear about Stro is "potential"; at some point, the guy has to deliver results to back up that potential or the word gets dropped altogether. he's had numerous opportunities with Grizzlies - almost too many to mention - and he's wasted them every.single.time. 

believe me, you're screwed. for crying out loud, Sidney Lowe ran very few plays, and Stro was _still_ lost on both ends of the court. the guy has zero dedication. just wait 'til the defense breaks down because of Stro and TMac starts looking daggers at him across the court.


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## TracywtFacy (Mar 29, 2005)

Zeus said:


> not even comparable. TMac may have phoned in his last season in Orlando, but the guy can produce when he wants to. Stro, on the other hand... well, the most common word you hear about Stro is "potential"; at some point, the guy has to deliver results to back up that potential or the word gets dropped altogether. he's had numerous opportunities with Grizzlies - almost too many to mention - and he's wasted them every.single.time.
> 
> believe me, you're screwed. for crying out loud, Sidney Lowe ran very few plays, and Stro was _still_ lost on both ends of the court. the guy has zero dedication. just wait 'til the defense breaks down because of Stro and TMac starts looking daggers at him across the court.



Well again it's a gamble for us... I don't know much about the guy but looking at his stats he's had limited opportunities in Memphis, not getting many minutes, playing off the bench. As was the case with TMac, I'm hoping it's a mental issue, and the coaching staff and the other players can get his head into gear, play team defense and realise his true POTENTIAL as a no.2 pick.


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## eddo (Jul 17, 2005)

He has what we in Memphis call 'Strotential', hopefully it's not contagious. We have all been waiting for him to have a blow-up year, I hope it's not this year.


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## Zeus (Jul 1, 2002)

TracywtFacy said:


> Well again it's a gamble for us... I don't know much about the guy but looking at his stats he's had limited opportunities in Memphis, not getting many minutes, playing off the bench. As was the case with TMac, I'm hoping it's a mental issue, and the coaching staff and the other players can get his head into gear, play team defense and realise his true POTENTIAL as a no.2 pick.


it's fallacious to conclude that he's had limited opportunities based on his stats. maybe he's had limited minutes because he's absolutely cluess on the court? don't even begin to assume the guy has had limited opportunities. he's had opportunity after opportunity and he's wasted every one of them. 

good luck getting his head into gear. Jerry West and other Grizzlies' brass were at their wits' end a couple of years ago and payed a visit to Stro's mother, trying to press upon her and get her to press upon her son, that he was about to lose his job if he didn't get it together.

the only thing Stro is good for is an "ooohhh!!! ahhh!!!!" type of dunk that comes around every now and then. the guy doesn't have potential as a number 2 pick; he has expectations. he has failed to live up to those expectations and has not shown any desire or dedication to do so. besides, look at how bad the franchise was then. i wouldn't say the organziation was well-run then, would you?


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

If you think Stro was given an opportunity and simply wasted it, you are wrong. The guy produced when given the minutes. Only die hard Jerry West fAns want to act like this is a good move. He should have been traded two years ago. To lose him for nothing is borderline incompetent.


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## Zeus (Jul 1, 2002)

MemphisX said:


> If you think Stro was given an opportunity and simply wasted it, you are wrong. The guy produced when given the minutes. Only die hard Jerry West fAns want to act like this is a good move. He should have been traded two years ago. To lose him for nothing is borderline incompetent.


let's see: Stro had an opportunity when SAR was traded, becoming the starter when the team moved to Memphis. he had an opportunity when Gooden was traded (of course, we tried to trade Swift in that deal, but Orlando wanted Gooden), he certainly had an opportunity last year when Pau was injured and he was supposedly playing to get some big dough when he became an unrestricted free agent. he's had three different coaches to perform for and hasn't. he's had countless opportunities; Stro is responsible for Stro. either you haven't been following the Grizzlies that long, or you really have no clue.


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

Zeus said:


> let's see: Stro had an opportunity when SAR was traded, becoming the starter when the team moved to Memphis. he had an opportunity when Gooden was traded (of course, we tried to trade Swift in that deal, but Orlando wanted Gooden), he certainly had an opportunity last year when Pau was injured and he was supposedly playing to get some big dough when he became an unrestricted free agent. he's had three different coaches to perform for and hasn't. he's had countless opportunities; Stro is responsible for Stro. either you haven't been following the Grizzlies that long, or you really have no clue.



So you think Stro is better than Pau but just hasn't lived up to that potential?


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## pacerfan23 (Jun 14, 2005)

eddo said:


> He has what we in Memphis call 'Strotential', hopefully it's not contagious. We have all been waiting for him to have a blow-up year, I hope it's not this year.


that is what we in Indy call the Bender affect. I feel your pain.


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## Zeus (Jul 1, 2002)

MemphisX said:


> So you think Stro is better than Pau but just hasn't lived up to that potential?


i neither said that nor implied it. don't try to change the subject.


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## grizzhoops (Apr 16, 2003)

Rawse said:


> we could have locked up Stromile _last_ offseason or, knowing that he would have been an unrestricted free agent by accepting the qualifying offer, we could have traded him before this was all a possibility.


If Stro hadn't insisted on $10M instead of the $8M that he was offered for three years, Jerry would have signed him. Jerry would have gladly signed him for the MLE equivent. That's his proven value. Just because you can jump at 6'9" doesn't mean you deserve big money in the NBA. Stro should be in track and field. He had five years to develop himself into a small forward but never did. God gave him what he has and he hasn't done much to develop it further. That's my opinion. $6M in wasted salary off the payroll.


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

Zeus said:


> i neither said that nor implied it. don't try to change the subject.



I am not changing the subject. It is your contention that Stro had many opportunities but wasted them. IMO that must mean you think he is better than Pau and SAR, but simply failed to live up to that 'Strotential'.

If you in fact think Pau (and SAR ) are better players then I fail to see how you think ever had a decent chance to be a starting PF since he came into the league and just blew it.


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## philipm27 (Sep 26, 2002)

Zeus said:


> what job do you mean? turning the worst NBA team into a playoff team? that's not a fantasy supposition, that's a fact. before Jerry came on board, the most games the team had won in a season was 23; after Jerry joined the Grizzlies, the team has been to the playoffs two years in a row and has won 50 and 45 games. that's not fantasy supposition.
> 
> fantasy supposition would be saying, "we could've gotten more for Swift". fantasy suppostion would be thinking that just because Jerry came to Mempihs, then Kobe and/or Shaq would surely follow. fantasy suppostion would be my thinking that you wouldn't bash Jerry if we had commenced an S&T with Swift resulting in the Grizzlies taking on more salaries for role players. i've read many of your posts both here and at the Grizzlies' board, and i would never accuse you of using common sense.



BINGO....!!


All you have to do is look at the Lakers and see what disarray they are into see the effect that Jerry had on that franchise, and look at the fact that Grizzlies instantly became a playoff team when he arrived. Of course, it is not just players he is in charge of getting either. Coaches like Hubie and Fratello were out there, and nobody else picked them up, but Jerry did and the Grizzlies--who started off both years poorly still ended up in the playoffs AGAIN.

Jerry West may not have quite the leverage as the GM of the Grizzlies that he did in LA, so that may make it seem like he cannot get it done. But seriously, it's the Memphis Grizzlies!!

And I am FROM Memphis. I am just living in Poland right now. Jerry West is a helluva GM, period.


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

philipm27 said:


> But seriously, it's the Memphis Grizzlies!!


What does this mean? I don't have this attitude. I think Memphis can be every bit as good as San Antonio. We have just had horrible luck as a franchise from day 1.


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## Zeus (Jul 1, 2002)

MemphisX said:


> I am not changing the subject. It is your contention that Stro had many opportunities but wasted them. IMO that must mean you think he is better than Pau and SAR, but simply failed to live up to that 'Strotential'.


that's some poor reasoning. we'll never know if he is or can be better than Pau and SAR if you're going to just go on potential. what we can go on is his ability and talents, his performance, and how he's reacted to challenges. he has backed down from every one. in other words, he's wasted opportunities. we all believe that Stro can play better than he is/does, but he hasn't applied himself. that's a waste.

so no, it doesn't mean that i think he's better than Pau or SAR; it means that i think he's wasted opportunities. and yes, it is changing the subject because it isn't about SAR or Pau or measuring Stro against either one of them.


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

Zeus said:


> that's some poor reasoning. we'll never know if he is or can be better than Pau and SAR if you're going to just go on potential. what we can go on is his ability and talents, his performance, and how he's reacted to challenges. he has backed down from every one. in other words, he's wasted opportunities. we all believe that Stro can play better than he is/does, but he hasn't applied himself. that's a waste.
> 
> so no, it doesn't mean that i think he's better than Pau or SAR; it means that i think he's wasted opportunities. and yes, it is changing the subject because it isn't about SAR or Pau or measuring Stro against either one of them.


Actually it is. He put up good numbers for a backup PF and that is all he could be in Memphis. Unfortunately, Memphis drafted a better player at his position. He had no chance to beat out Pau or even to hold Pau off if he wouldn't have gotten injured and he is not a 5 in the NBA at 230#


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## Geaux Tigers (Apr 26, 2004)

I think Stromile finally wanted to see if he could prove that he was worth where he was picked in the draft. I think that rotation in Memphis was just to big to get every drop of potential out of someone.


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