# Amare or Yao?



## Cusematt23 (Apr 15, 2004)

This thread must have been done before, but if you were an NBA GM, whom would you rather have on your team, for success over the long-run? I'd go with Yao, because I think that Amare is one major knee/ankle injury away from pure obscurity, because his game relies so much on his athleticism. I also like Yao's passing ability more and I think he has a ton of potential at playing the high post very effectively. Your thoughts?


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## Ryoga (Aug 31, 2002)

No actual GM would ever pick Amare.


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## Outkast (Jul 20, 2004)

Yao of course


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## Football Fanatic (Jun 8, 2003)

no question, Yao


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## NugzFan (Jul 26, 2002)

once again because of BigAmare, i choose yao.


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## TruCrimson (Apr 21, 2003)

Yao


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## Johnny Mac (May 6, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>NugzFan</b>!
> once again because of BigAmare, i choose yao.


Hes going to cry when he sees this thread.


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## Outkast (Jul 20, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>John The Cool Kid</b>!
> 
> 
> Hes going to cry when he sees this thread.


:laugh:


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## Ownerofpueblo (Aug 17, 2003)

From a marketing standpoint, how can you choose anyone but Yao? he fills seats.

From a roster-filling standpoint, you have to always choose size if the talent is comparable. If you are going to make a mistake, make a big mistake, the GMs say.

I'm a big phoenix fan, and while I feel they have a similar amount of impact on a team, I'd choose Yao too.


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## jokeaward (May 22, 2003)

I'm leaning towards Amare b/c of aggressiveness.

He's a few post moves and maybe a J away from being a truly dominating force. As a rookie in the playoffs he hung with TD.


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## "Matt!" (Jul 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>jokeaward</b>!
> I'm leaning towards Amare b/c of aggressiveness.
> 
> He's a few post moves and maybe a J away from being a truly dominating force. As a rookie in the playoffs he hung with TD.


Yao already has a few post moves and a J, and a better skillset in general. Yao is the biggest match-up problem in the NBA not named Dirk.


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## Outkast (Jul 20, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Ownerofpueblo</b>!
> From a marketing standpoint, how can you choose anyone but Yao? he fills seats.
> 
> From a roster-filling standpoint, you have to always choose size if the talent is comparable. If you are going to make a mistake, make a big mistake, the GMs say.
> ...


Not only from the Marketing Standpoint Yao is better player now, he will be better than Amare always


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## Arclite (Nov 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Outkast</b>!
> 
> he will be better than Amare always


Oh. 

40-2?

Well, like Sully Erna says.. "I.. stand alone.." Well, almost. Thanks BigAmare.


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## Pay Ton (Apr 18, 2003)

Yao Ming


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## osballa50 (Jun 28, 2004)

Although Amare is more fun to watch. But I have to go with Yao Ming.

if Amare was 7'6 i would prolly pick him.


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## Drewbs (Feb 16, 2004)

Yao, actual centers are actually hard to come across these days. Yao scores, rebounds, contests shots and can shoot pretty good too. He isn't all that aggressive inside but its getting better.


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## adarsh1 (May 28, 2003)

holy f'in shiznit it's 45-2 folks good god 

see below...yao is like darth vader he is taller and solid...amare is like luke skywalker....he is small and flashy but just can't beat darth vader

:starwars:


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## Captain Obvious (Jun 15, 2003)

Whoever voted for Amare I'd like to hear their argument as to why they would rather have him.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

I bet you the voting would be a lot closer if it weren't for BigAmare. His constant praising of Amare just makes everyone hate Amare.


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## Captain Obvious (Jun 15, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> I bet you the voting would be a lot closer if it weren't for BigAmare. His constant praising of Amare just makes everyone hate Amare.


No, that's not it at all. Sure, BigAmare is annoying as hell but I think everybody knows that they rather have Yao. It's not even close.


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## HeinzGuderian (Jun 29, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> I bet you the voting would be a lot closer if it weren't for BigAmare. His constant praising of Amare just makes everyone hate Amare.


I wouldnt be suprised if that did change a few votes... I would have taken Yao anyway but I almost hate Amare b/c of him.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

I'm not saying I think Amare is better, because he's not, I'd take Yao, but this is not Kobe vs. Fred Jones here, normally the polls are a lot closer than this.


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## MacDanny 6 (Jun 7, 2002)

Guys, Amare is better than Yao. What's up with the one sided voting??? Amare is straight out of high school and already averaging 20 ppg in his second season. This guy has Kevin Garnett written all over him and I don't think you guys would pick Yao over Garnett. In the 2 years they have played, Amare has had better numbers in both years, and he's not even close to his prime yet.


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## Arclite (Nov 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Captain Obvious</b>!
> Whoever voted for Amare I'd like to hear their argument as to why they would rather have him.


Upside, entertainment, personality. Plus, I'm a Suns fan. If we traded Amare for Yao (obviously Houston wouldn't, I'm speaking theoretically), I'd be disappointed. That's just the way I am.

Yao has a nice jumpshot. He plays good defense. His fundamentals are nice. He makes clever jokes in press conferences, and even had a commercial where he kept saying "Yao", that everyone liked. He's a good community guy and in general just a well-liked dude. 

Amare's jumpshot isn't there yet. Some games it looks nice, other times it looks like it could break the backboard. Sometimes, he dominates defensively. Most of the time though, he looks like he's not sure where he needs to be at, falls for most pump fakes, and has no one to mask any defensive miscues he might have because he plays with Jake Voskuhl and Maciej Lampe instead of Kelvin Cato (last year). He doesn't really have good fundamentals. He has a nice spin move and couple impressive post moves, but he also commits a ton of turnovers because he's not quite sure of his own capabilities. What is a bounce pass? In press conferences, Amare always tries to say the right things, but instead he usually ends up speaking in fragments, making sure the right words come out. He got bad grades and didn't go to college, and after hearing him spout out some phrases in a post-game interview, most people will say to themselves "omfg dude lol what a idiot". Amare is, by far, the most hated player on these boards. Some people have their own agendas, but most people let a certain someone create their opinions on Amare for them, which is why 90% about what gets said about him here isn't legit (admittedly that comes from both sides).

But Amare will dunk in your ****ing face and either laugh at you or howl at your team's fans so they know what just happened. When he messes up, he doesn't hang his head in shame and play like a boy who just lost his puppy. He gets pissed off and looks for someone's head to tear off. You don't describe Stoudemire with words like "fundamental" or "poised", you describe him with words like "man-eater" or "bad man".

If you really wanted to win a championship, you'd probably go with Yao right now. At his height and with his skill, he has a greater impact on the game, especially defensively. But this is my team, so I'll take my guy.



Oh, and I guess Yao is infinitely better than Dirk. At least Amare got some votes against that guy.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Franco 5</b>!
> Guys, Amare is better than Yao. What's up with the one sided voting??? Amare is straight out of high school and already averaging 20 ppg in his second season. This guy has Kevin Garnett written all over him and I don't think you guys would pick Yao over Garnett. In the 2 years they have played, Amare has had better numbers in both years, and he's not even close to his prime yet.


What is he better at than YAO then we can talk. Hes not a better defender, shooter, shotblocker, passer, Low post threat. Your turn


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## PoorPoorSonics (Mar 20, 2004)

Yao, without a doubt. Now and forever.


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## The_Franchise (Mar 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> I bet you the voting would be a lot closer if it weren't for BigAmare. His constant praising of Amare just makes everyone hate Amare.


Maybe by 3 or 4 votes, but that's it. Yao Ming just has all the tools to lead his team to the an NBA Championship. The only knock on him right now is that he isn't aggressive enough, but he's only been in the NBA for 2 seasons, we have to give him time to mature and grow as an athlete. When you mix the amount of skill and size he has, there is no way any GM in the NBA would pick Amare over him. 

Amare is a nice player, he'll give you 20 and 10 throughout the prime of his career, and he's very aggressive close to the basket, but it's like comparing Barry Bonds to Scott Rolen: Teams have to change their entire mindset when they play against Bonds or Ming. Yao Ming can kill you in the post, or he can hit 15 foot jumpers all day long. He can pass the ball, intimidate you on defense, and no one likes to penetrate to the basket and try to shoot over Yao Ming. Amare will put up numbers but his offensive game is limited and he doesn't have the size Yao Ming has that constantly leads to double teams.


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## The_Franchise (Mar 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> I'm not saying I think Amare is better, because he's not, I'd take Yao, but this is not Kobe vs. Fred Jones here, normally the polls are a lot closer than this.


Any SG could burst on to the scene and put up good numbers and still be compared to Kobe. But few players come along with Yao's size and smooth game, and that's why he dominates any poll against a player who isn't a superstar.


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## DontBeCows (Apr 22, 2003)

Amare does have one thing on Yao: his aggressiveness. 

I like the way that Amare plays. Everyone should play that way. His skills may be raw, but he's never intiminated by anyone. And he always plays hard. You can just see that he WANTS it. If I were an NBA coach I'd love to have players like Amare on my team. 

Yao's style of play pisses me off sometimes. He's bigger than everyone else and he's very skilled yet he is so passive at times. I don't know if he can truly be dominant one day because of his lack of killer instinct.


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## QRICH (Feb 2, 2004)

Yao Ming, and it's not even close. You'd have to be an absolute homer to pick Amare of Ming.


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## HallOfFamer (May 26, 2003)

OMFG. 

This is the most one sided poll Ive ever seen on BBB.net. This poll cant be right. I remember a poll where a Mod messed around with the results to prove a point to poster. I wonder if the a Mod did the same here.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

The only reason I'd hesitate is that Stoudemire has the mentality and aggressiveness to dominate. However, that isn't enough to overcome Yao's superior size and skills. If Yao does develop the aggressiveness, the dominance Amare could wreak pales in comparison to that which Yao could wreak.

So, I'd definitely take Yao.


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## QRICH (Feb 2, 2004)

As it should be! Would you want a very skilled 7'6" center or a 6'8" player who only has 2 post moves? 

Those 4 votes Amare has is 4 more than he should have on this poll.


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## Ghost (Jun 21, 2002)

Yao because of the money he would bring into my franchise.


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## PHXSPORTS4LIFE (May 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Cusematt23</b>!
> This thread must have been done before, but if you were an NBA GM, whom would you rather have on your team, for success over the long-run? I'd go with Yao, because I think that Amare is one major knee/ankle injury away from pure obscurity, because his game relies so much on his athleticism. I also like Yao's passing ability more and I think he has a ton of potential at playing the high post very effectively. Your thoughts?


as a suns fan i love amare. and i think he's got the better mentality to become a dominant force in the game than does yao. i just don't see the killer instinct in yao that i see in amare. the hunger.

also, as regards the injury thing, who are more often crippled by injuries, athletic power forwards or the physical freaks whose bodies grow to proportions that their knees, ankles, feet, etc cannot bear? centers. particularly the freakishly large ones (see shaq, sampson, walton, ilgauskas, smits, muresan, etc.). i think the injury possibility rests largely on yao verses amare.

all that said i STILL voted for yao. simple fact? he's 7'5 and a legit center. you just don't find those anymore. he's an automatic mismatch, even against other centers.


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## Cusematt23 (Apr 15, 2004)

Wow I was out all day and look what happened to my poll! I didn't think it would be this big a blowout.


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## HippieHair33 (Jul 16, 2004)

in this generation you always have to go with the center. yao is one of the only true centers in the L. he's got the classic hook shot, the size, the unbelievably boring dunks due to his size....yao is da ****!


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## agoo (Jun 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Franco 5</b>!
> Guys, Amare is better than Yao. What's up with the one sided voting??? Amare is straight out of high school and already averaging 20 ppg in his second season. This guy has Kevin Garnett written all over him and I don't think you guys would pick Yao over Garnett. In the 2 years they have played, Amare has had better numbers in both years, and he's not even close to his prime yet.


I'm just going to assume that this is one of those instances where sarcasm doesn't convey itself over the internet.

But if not, where do you even get the slightest idea that Amare has a third of the skill that Kevin Garnett has? Lets see here, KG dribbles, shoots, passes, defends, blocks shots, gets steals, and runs better than Amare. But Amare dunks and then yells about it, so lets give him props for that most important of skills. Self promotion.

Amare is KG? Riiiiiiight.


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## dmilesai (Jul 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Franco 5</b>!
> Guys, Amare is better than Yao. What's up with the one sided voting??? Amare is straight out of high school and already averaging 20 ppg in his second season. This guy has Kevin Garnett written all over him and I don't think you guys would pick Yao over Garnett. In the 2 years they have played, Amare has had better numbers in both years, and he's not even close to his prime yet.


:laugh: Maybe because Amare was more NBA ready then Garnett? The thing he has over most PF's is athleticism and aggresiveness. He doesn't have the shot, leadership, ballhandling, courtvision, ETC. that Garnett has....

I'm surprised that Amare has more than 1 vote (I expected BigAmare to vote for him obviously).


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## rebelsun (Nov 25, 2003)

I may be biased, but I chose Amare because he has improved so rapidly, but still retained his aggressiveness - he just wants it. 

It is early to say, but I am not sold on Yao's killer instinct. I think Yao settles for jumpshots and fadeaways too often, and neglects the post too much. 

I just think right now that Yao is closer to Rik Smits than he is to Shaq.


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## DeVaZTaYTa (Jan 8, 2004)

you're right; it is certainly too early to make a definite and educated choice, but at the moment, Yao has to be chosen, simply because he's the better player, and has the most potential. 

Many of you say Yao does not have this killer instinct, agressiveness, or willingness to attack the basket and use his body. To you, I recommend a viewing of how he performs in the Asian championships. He single handedly decimates his opponents through force and skill. He bangs in there, and doesn't shy from the physical play. He's the man on the Chinese national team, and he knows it; he takes full charge each game.

Now, all you must do, is wait for him to gain that kind of confidence in the NBA, then he'll show the nay-sayers, who haven't actually seen what he is capable of, what he can truly do.


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## crimsonice (Feb 27, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>RebelSun</b>!
> I may be biased, but I chose Amare because he has improved so rapidly, but still retained his aggressiveness - he just wants it.
> 
> It is early to say, but I am not sold on Yao's killer instinct. I think Yao settles for jumpshots and fadeaways too often, and neglects the post too much.
> ...


hmmm.. I wonder if you have watched Yao play much. He barely takes jump shots. Most of his points come from the post.

As far as your comparisons, Yao in his second year is much better than Smits in his prime. And you're right, Yao is not Shaq and never will be. They are just completely different players, but it doesn't mean that he will never be as effective.


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## NugzFan (Jul 26, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> I bet you the voting would be a lot closer if it weren't for BigAmare. His constant praising of Amare just makes everyone hate Amare.


i will always vote against amare in polls on this site. always. 

yes because of BigAmare.


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## Arclite (Nov 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>crimsonice</b>!
> 
> 
> hmmm.. I wonder if you have watched Yao play much. He barely takes jump shots. Most of his points come from the post.


Yao takes a fair amount of jump shots, and while I think that often gets overstated, to say that he barely takes jump shots is not accurate. A good percentage (50%) of his shots are from outside of 10 feet. People see him take and make a fair amount of jumpers and assume he's a jump shooter, and that isn't exclusively the case.

Going back to what I said earlier, about how 90% of the things that get said on this board about Amare not being legit: 

Stoudemire - Shot selection

Shot - Att - FG%
Jump -53% -35.6

Duncan - Shot selection

Shot - Att - FG%
Jump -56% -38.4

Hi NBA geeks! LMAO guys!


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## QRICH (Feb 2, 2004)

This has got to be the most one-sided poll ever! 91% vs 9%


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## Like A Breath (Jun 16, 2003)

I find it strange that after their rookie years a lot of people(probably half) would've taken Amare but now they've all but disappeared. Amare even had a better second year than Yao statistically but a vast majority would choose Yao now. Is that because of BigAmare's alienation, Pheonix having a terrible year, or a result of people wising up? The world may never know.

BTW, I chose Yao.


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## FanOfAll8472 (Jun 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Franco 5</b>!
> Guys, Amare is better than Yao. What's up with the one sided voting??? Amare is straight out of high school and already averaging 20 ppg in his second season. This guy has Kevin Garnett written all over him and I don't think you guys would pick Yao over Garnett. In the 2 years they have played, Amare has had better numbers in both years, and he's not even close to his prime yet.


Do you have another alias called "BigAmare"? Just kidding with ya .

Easily Yao, Amare might have a bit of a mean streak and more aggression, but Yao is just so much better all around except for maybe upper body strength.


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## MacDanny 6 (Jun 7, 2002)

You people are in love with Yao. He is not better than Amare. What just cause he's a center and he's 7'5 he's better? What has he done that makes him better than Amare? He doesn't average more points or rebounds, Amare has him beat in both of those. Yao missed the playoffs in his first year and lost in 5 in his second year. Amare made it last year and hit a clutch 3 against the Spurs and took them to 6 games, and missed the playoffs this year. So what exactly has Yao done that makes him better?


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## banner17 (Jun 28, 2003)

The only reason why I would prefer Yao on my team than Amare is that he can guard Shaq to a degree, which Amare cannot. Beyond that I think its a toss up.


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## Johnny Mac (May 6, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Franco 5</b>!
> Amare made it last year and hit a clutch 3 against the Spurs and took them to 6 games, and missed the playoffs this year.


Pretty off to say he "took them" to 6 games, when he was the 3rd best player on the team at the time. Marbury and Marion were both better players. Marbury hit the game winner, and carried the team throughout that whole series. 

I'd probably take Yao, but its not as lobsided as the poll indicates.


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## #1SUNFAN (Jul 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Like A Breath</b>!
> I find it strange that after their rookie years a lot of people(probably half) would've taken Amare but now they've all but disappeared. Amare even had a better second year than Yao statistically but a vast majority would choose Yao now. Is that because of BigAmare's alienation, Pheonix having a terrible year, or a result of people wising up? The world may never know.
> 
> BTW, I chose Yao.


It's a combination of those. Before this season Marion was considered #1SF in the league, now some dont have him in their top 5's. Losing is very bad for a player's rep.


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## Yao Mania (Aug 4, 2003)

Let's end this topic right now

YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO YAO 
MING is better than Amare Stoudamire

Now let's all join together and sing the Yao Ming anthem
"Yao Ming, Yao Ming Yao Ming Yao Ming...."


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## rebelsun (Nov 25, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Like A Breath</b>!
> I find it strange that after their rookie years a lot of people(probably half) would've taken Amare but now they've all but disappeared. Amare even had a better second year than Yao statistically but a vast majority would choose Yao now. Is that because of BigAmare's alienation, Pheonix having a terrible year, or a result of people wising up? The world may never know.
> 
> BTW, I chose Yao.


I think some people are taking this opportunity to get a shot in on BigAmare.


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## The Cat (Jul 14, 2002)

> You people are in love with Yao. He is not better than Amare. What just cause he's a center and he's 7'5 he's better? What has he done that makes him better than Amare? He doesn't average more points or rebounds, Amare has him beat in both of those. Yao missed the playoffs in his first year and lost in 5 in his second year. Amare made it last year and hit a clutch 3 against the Spurs and took them to 6 games, and missed the playoffs this year. So what exactly has Yao done that makes him better?


You're right; the stats are similar, and so are the playoff resumes. The difference? Tell me how many power forwards in the league average 20 and 10. Then tell me how many centers in the league average 20 and 10. (I'm projecting both Yao and Amare to be 20/10 players.) Yes, he *is* better than Amare because he's a center. It's about position rarity. If two players have similar numbers, teams will prefer the player who plays the more rare position. It's common sense.

Also, I don't remember if you were the one to say that Amare wasn't close to his prime, but if you were, what do you think Yao is? Before two years ago, he had almost zero experience playing the American style of basketball. He came from a country that put no emphasis on upper body development. He hasn't had a break from basketball in almost three years. Yao has a whole lot of room and reasons to improve as well.

By the way, if you guys want to see Yao's killer instinct, think back to the fourth quarters of some of the Lakers-Rockets games this season. When the pressure was on and the games were on the line, he came up big. He may not scream and he may not pound his chest, but that doesn't mean he's lacking fire. Look at Tim Duncan.


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## agoo (Jun 1, 2003)

Yao is better than Amare. He's more skilled. Its that simple.

Personally...I don't buy the "He's aggressive" argument. What's aggressiveness? Mark Madsen is aggressive. Doesn't make him good. Nor do I buy the athleticism argument. Kedrick Brown is probably the best athlete in basketball and this season, he'll park is behind on the bench in Philly, collect a check, and then be out of the league never to be seen again.

Yao is a basketball player. Amare is an athlete. Thus, Yao is the better player.


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## MacDanny 6 (Jun 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>John The Cool Kid</b>!
> Marbury hit the game winner, and carried the team throughout that whole series.


Yes he hit the game winner in OT. Amare hit the game tying 3 to send it into overtime. If it weren't for Amare, Marbury wouldn't have even been in that position to hit the game winning 3. Amare plays like he is a veteran, and he is not scared. He delivers facials on anyone who wants to bring it to him. When I watch Yao play, it looks to me like he's scared and intimidated by these players. And he did a pretty half assed job in the playoffs, too.


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## Derrex (Jul 21, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Franco 5</b>!
> 
> Yes he hit the game winner in OT. Amare hit the game tying 3 to send it into overtime. If it weren't for Amare, Marbury wouldn't have even been in that position to hit the game winning 3. Amare plays like he is a veteran, and he is not scared. He delivers facials on anyone who wants to bring it to him. When I watch Yao play, it looks to me like he's scared and intimidated by these players. And he did a pretty half assed job in the playoffs, too.


First of all, a lucky toss that bounces off the backboard should not be considered as "hit the game tying 3". It should be considered as "the hail mary that was answered". Don't even bother to argue that Amare has 3 pt range and is a clutch 3 pt shooter. Thats a fluke, move on. Second, without Marbury, they probably wouldn't have even made the playoffs, so Amare couldn't have hit that 3, and so Marbury couldn't have hit the gamewinner. Thus your logic is flawed. Just because Amare "hit" a game tying 3 doesn't mean he was the centerpiece of the team. Third, Yao played Shaq in the playoffs. Have you seen Shaq and are you aware that he is by FAR the best center in the last 5 years? He makes everyone look weak and intimidated. Lastly, Amare does NOT play like a veteran. Veterans are usually wiser and rely on skills rather than physical ability. Something which is exactly the opposite of the way Amare plays.


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## Captain Obvious (Jun 15, 2003)

Put it this way: in a couple of years, Yao will be the best center in the league. I don't ever see Amare being the best power forward. He'll never be as good as Duncan or Garnett, and he'll probably never even be as good as Nowitzki or pre-injury Webber.


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

This thread is collective water pipe smoking. Yao Ming? lol

Give me Vitali Potapeko. Even he can can shut down Ming. Yao Ming is soft like a tissue.

_I don't ever see Amare being the best power forward. He'll never be as good as Duncan or Garnett, and he'll probably never even be as good as Nowitzki or pre-injury Webber._

Get ready to eat crow next season. Amare last season was already pretty close to Dirk if not better. Especially after his injury he was a lot better than any other big man not named Shaq, Garnett and Duncan and that includes Yao.

Yao doesn't even come close to the dominating games Amare had after his injury. 24.5/10... keep dreaming Yao.


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>agoo101284</b>!
> Yao is better than Amare. He's more skilled. Its that simple.
> 
> Personally...I don't buy the "He's aggressive" argument. What's aggressiveness? Mark Madsen is aggressive. Doesn't make him good. Nor do I buy the athleticism argument. Kedrick Brown is probably the best athlete in basketball and this season, he'll park is behind on the bench in Philly, collect a check, and then be out of the league never to be seen again.
> ...


Watch some basketball games please. Yeah Amare has no skills....

That argument is so lame, your entire post was totally worthless. If you can't contribute to the argument don't even post.

This made up crap is just annoying.

Well lets see. Amare is black and out of highschool and his mother is in jail and he is a great athlete. Amare is DUMB. Yeah right that is it.

And Yao is smart, cmon he must be smart. He is white or chinese and does all those commercials.

  
:laugh:


----------



## "Matt!" (Jul 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> This thread is collective water pipe smoking. Yao Ming? lol
> 
> Give me Vitali Potapeko. Even he can can shut down Ming. Yao Ming is soft like a tissue.
> ...


You know, Eddy Curry put up 25/10 for a good part of a season at one point too.


----------



## agoo (Jun 1, 2003)

Let me make the Yao argument simpler.

"I DUNK ON YOU" does not mean you're a better player.

End of discussion. Yao wins.


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## MacDanny 6 (Jun 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>agoo101284</b>!
> Let me make the Yao argument simpler.
> 
> "I DUNK ON YOU" does not mean you're a better player.
> ...


You act like that's all Amare does. Amare has better stats than Yao in both their seasons. And it's not like Yao leads his team to more wins because he's only won 1 playoff game.


----------



## MacDanny 6 (Jun 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>agoo101284</b>!
> Let me make the Yao argument simpler.
> 
> "I DUNK ON YOU" does not mean you're a better player.
> ...


And another thing, just because "I AM A CENTER" doesn't mean you're a better player.


----------



## agoo (Jun 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Franco 5</b>!
> 
> You act like that's all Amare does. Amare has better stats than Yao in both their seasons. And it's not like Yao leads his team to more wins because he's only won 1 playoff game.


There's more to a game than stats. Look at Shareef Abdur-Rahim. The guy gets crazy stats, but does nothing to help his team. I'm not saying Amare does nothing to help his team, but they weren't exactly winning games last year. Say what you want about his support, he still had Shawn Marion and Joe Johnson, even after Marbury was gone.

Yao is just a better player. Its that simple. He's got more tallent and more skills.

Its also really tough to make an argument for a guy who's getting whumped in a poll like this.


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## Captain Obvious (Jun 15, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> 
> 
> Watch some basketball games please. Yeah Amare has no skills....
> ...


I can just imagine BigAmare sitting here for a couple of days, watching his boy get killed this entire thread. I think everybody knew he would explode with some ridiculous, homeristic, bias-blinded post. Well, here it is. You can't even make an argument for Amare. Instead, you choose to insult the collective intelligence of the posters on this site by implying that race has something to do with how we evaluate players. I know you were being somewhat sarcastic, but why even bring this into the argument? Here are the facts. Yao played on a far superior team in a halfcourt, slow down offense. This explains why he scored less than Amare. Oh yeah, Yao didn't get a chance to stat pad like Amare did in meaningless games because the Rockets were actually good. Yao also makes a far greater impact on the defensive end for the simple fact that he is huge and he is a center. So for all of you who are saying Yao is just considered better because he's a center, yes that is it! It does make a difference, no matter what anybody says. Every team in the league would take Yao over Amare, even the Heat who have Shaq at center and Udonis freaking Haslem as their power forward.


----------



## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Franco 5</b>!
> 
> You act like that's all Amare does. Amare has better stats than Yao in both their seasons. And it's not like Yao leads his team to more wins because he's only won 1 playoff game.


honestly this is the most foolish response yet. I earlier in this thread as well as other people asked what skills did Amare possess that were greater than YAO's and your argument is that his stats was better. Quite ridiculous if you ask me


----------



## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Captain Obvious</b>!
> 
> 
> I can just imagine BigAmare sitting here for a couple of days, watching his boy get killed this entire thread. I think everybody knew he would explode with some ridiculous, homeristic, bias-blinded post. Well, here it is. You can't even make an argument for Amare. Instead, you choose to insult the collective intelligence of the posters on this site by implying that race has something to do with how we evaluate players. I know you were being somewhat sarcastic, but why even bring this into the argument? Here are the facts. Yao played on a far superior team in a halfcourt, slow down offense. This explains why he scored less than Amare. Oh yeah, Yao didn't get a chance to stat pad like Amare did in meaningless games because the Rockets were actually good. Yao also makes a far greater impact on the defensive end for the simple fact that he is huge and he is a center. So for all of you who are saying Yao is just considered better because he's a center, yes that is it! It does make a difference, no matter what anybody says. Every team in the league would take Yao over Amare, even the Heat who have Shaq at center and Udonis freaking Haslem as their power forward.


:clap:


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## agoo (Jun 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> 
> 
> Watch some basketball games please. Yeah Amare has no skills....
> ...


When did I bring race into it? Speaking of lame arguments that are totaly worthless. How does this contribute to the argument?

While I would go out on a limb and say that Amare isn't a brilliant human, I don't think real life intelligence makes you a good player. If it did, I'd have an actual skill or two more than he does.

What skills does Amare have? Jumping isn't a skill. I don't see him having post moves other than running around someone, which also isn't a skill.

For the third time in this thread, I say, "I DUNK ON YOU" doesn't make someone a good player.


----------



## "Matt!" (Jul 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Franco 5</b>!
> 
> You act like that's all Amare does. Amare has better stats than Yao in both their seasons. And it's not like Yao leads his team to more wins because he's only won 1 playoff game.


I don't recall Amare having an 15-foot jumper or a no-look pass in his arsenal.

Teams can run an offense through Yao. He is a far superior passer (I would love to see Yao be able to pass to a cutter that wasn't Kelvin Cato, or pass out to a shooter that wasn't Steve Francis). He is just plain bigger, and his mere presence on defense forces teams to scheme around him. Despite playing year-round for the past 3 years, Yao has played all 164 games of his career so far. 

Yao doesn't have the advantage of padding in blow-outs, JVG takes him out as soon as it gets too far of a lead, either way.

So let's see:
-- About the same age.
-- Yao is 7'5, Amare is 6'10
-- Amare is more agressive
-- Yao is more skilled
-- Amare has already missed a significant chunk of games
-- Yao has remained healthy through 2 seasons
-- Yao will now have the 2nd best offensive player in the game to feed him the ball, and play off of him, and become a bigger part of the offense without Francis. He's getting a better player, on a team that already made the playoffs. Amare had 2 other All-Star caliber players (Marion, Johnson) on his team, and won 20-something games. 
-- Amare, despite taking (for the most part) higher percentage shots, still shot a lower FG% than Yao.
-- Yao is highly reliable at the line. Amare is good, but not as good. 
-- The basic argument for Yao is that he is bigger, more talented, and a bigger defensive presence, also a rarity at his position, though he isn't agressive as he could be.
-- The basic argument for Amare is that he is more agressive, and could develop a jumpshot, and could develop handles, and could do all this stuff he doesn't have.


----------



## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Matt85163</b>!
> 
> 
> You know, Eddy Curry put up 25/10 for a good part of a season at one point too.


Eddy Curry put up like 18/8 for 10 games. sheesh. 

Amare put up 25/10 for all games after his injury and tied Barkley's 20+ streak. He also lead EVERYONE in the league in FTA after the allstar break and was 4th in scoring (#1 among big guys).


Michael Jordan = Athlete
John Stockton = Basketball Skills

-> Stockton far superior to MJ.

That exactly your stupid argument.

_What skills does Amare have? Jumping isn't a skill. I don't see him having post moves other than running around someone, which also isn't a skill._

By far the dumbest thing ever posted. He was 4th in the league in scoring and #1 in FTA because he has no skills? Get a ****ing clue this is really retarded.

Someone might still be bitter because Pierce was dumb enough to drive on him and lost his front teeth.

Amare is a FAR superior scorer to Yao, better post moves, has much more ball handling skills and knows how to draw fouls.


What basketball skills does Yao have? Shoot and be tall? LMAO. Don't say passing skills. Ever looked at his assists?

_Oh yeah, Yao didn't get a chance to stat pad like Amare did in meaningless games because the Rockets were actually good._

Another retarded argument.

Tmac isn't a top30 player anymore?

2nd of all the Suns won more games when Amare was the man than they did with Marbury. Third of all they played .500 basketball at the end of the season. 4th Amare scored also more than Yao in his rookie season when Amare was on the better team and Yao had to watch. 5th the main reason Phoenix record was bad was because Amare missed almost 30!!! games and it is not like Houston won 30 games more.

*NOPE Not allowed*

And everyone who says _ I almost hate Amare because of BigAmare _.  

Get a life and grow up kiddies.


----------



## Cusematt23 (Apr 15, 2004)

I actually think that BigAmare makes some excellent points. Who exactly cares who has the better basketball skills? All that really matters in the end is production, and Amare and Yao have been pretty similarly productive. One can even argue that Amare is simply the more productive player. Add to that the fact that Amare really hasn't developed a great shooting stroke or many other skills, and you see a guy that has a lot of room for improvement. How much room for improvement does Yao have? Fact is, Yao is a limited athlete, and doesn't have the frame to add much strength to his upper body. I am pretty shocked that the poll is this one-sided. That being said, I'd probably still take Yao....


----------



## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Matt85163</b>!
> 
> 
> I don't recall Amare having an 15-foot jumper or a no-look pass in his arsenal.
> ...


About the same age? Yao is 2 years older and had much more basketball experience.

Yao the passer? He averages 0.1apg more per game. LMAO

Because he made one over the head no look pass he is a great passer? That's just ridiculous. Zydrunas Ilgauskas made the same pass in the same season but only Yao got hype for that.

I have never seen Yao lead breaks for take it cost to cost through traffic.

On top of it Yao has no stamina. You run against them and JVG needs to take Yao out of the game.

_-- Amare, despite taking (for the most part) higher percentage shots, still shot a lower FG% than Yao._

Could you ****ing backup those ridiculous statements?

*AMARE TAKES MORE JUMPERS THAN YAO*
http://www.82games.com/03PHO13A.HTM
http://www.82games.com/03HOU17A.HTM

First of all Amare got double and triple teamed EVERY game after Marbury was traded even on the perimter for the most part. Yao doesn't. Yao draws a double team every once in a while when he gets good position.

_-- Amare has already missed a significant chunk of games
-- Yao has remained healthy through 2 seasons
-- Yao will now have the 2nd best offensive player in the game to feed him the ball, and play off of him, and become a bigger part of the offense without Francis. He's getting a better player, on a team that already made the playoffs. Amare had 2 other All-Star caliber players (Marion, Johnson) on his team, and won 20-something games. _

Good Lord... Amare was injured for 28 games and when he was healthy they had a better record obviously. They also were the youngest team in the league. Adapted a new playing system and new roles during the season.

And yeah Amare is injury prone because he landed on Pierce's foot and suffered a severe ankle sprain. Now that is injury prone. LOL

_Yao doesn't have the advantage of padding in blow-outs, JVG takes him out as soon as it gets too far of a lead, either way._

Another argument that is just lame. Yao is only benched for the last 2 minutes or so in most losses.

I could just come back at you and say that Yao simply can't play heavy minutes because he has no stamina or durability. Why has he played all games? Maybe because they need to limit his minutes so he doesn't break down...

Phoenix lost twice as many games as any other team in the league by less than 5 points.

And third of all Amare didn't even lead the team in 4th quarter scoring despite putting up 24.5ppg. If anyone scored in garbage time it would have been Joe Johnson.


----------



## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> Amare is a FAR superior scorer to Yao, better post moves, has much more ball handling skills and knows how to draw fouls.


You have said in the past his post moves need refinement but hes only 2 years removed from highschool but now he has better post moves. Im sorry but I dont know of any post moves coming from Amare outside of that drop step baby hook.



> What basketball skills does Yao have? Shoot and be tall? LMAO. Don't say passing skills. Ever looked at his assists?[/b]
> 
> What about his assits? All of his good to great passes where negated by Francis and Mobley's penchant for holding on to the ball. Do you know what an assist is? Its the pass that leads directly to a basket. If thats the case and Yao gets the ball, is doubled gets rid of the ball and francis holds on to it for the life of the shot clcok what is it. Its not an assist anymore.
> 
> ...


----------



## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Cusematt23</b>!
> I actually think that BigAmare makes some excellent points. Who exactly cares who has the better basketball skills? All that really matters in the end is production, and Amare and Yao have been pretty similarly productive. One can even argue that Amare is simply the more productive player. Add to that the fact that Amare really hasn't developed a great shooting stroke or many other skills, and you see a guy that has a lot of room for improvement. How much room for improvement does Yao have?
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Arclite (Nov 2, 2002)

This will be a fun thread to bump by about mid-season.


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## Cusematt23 (Apr 15, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>BEEZ</b>!
> 
> 
> There is a difference between cant and hasnt. and cant is the wrong word to use. The man waist down is a center, he hasnt bulked up yet up top but hes improvment. Also the fact of him being a little more than a year older have anything to do with him improving more as a player, athleticism aside.


The reason I think he has little room for improvement is because his skills are so good and developed already. Yao's skills in Amare's body = Top 3 player in league. Hell probably even #1.


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## agoo (Jun 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> Michael Jordan = Athlete
> John Stockton = Basketball Skills
> 
> ...


Actually, that's not my argument. Jordan was the top athlete in the NBA for a while. He was also the most skilled player. See what he did when he was too old and out of shap in Washington? He still was a good player without his athleticism. Take away Amare's athleticism, and you have a just another big body.

Also, I'll be the fourth person to point this out so that you can ignore it again. YAO PLAYS IN A SYSTEM THAT DOESN'T GIVE HIM A LOT OF CHANCES TO SCORE. Also, he played fewer minutes per game than Amare.

You want to look at stats though, ok. Yao played fewer minutes and grabbed as many rebounds per game as Amare. He also shot better (52.2% to 47.5%). Amare shot 71% from the line, compared to Yao's 81%. Yao also blocked more shots per game, more assists, and fewer turnovers. He fouled less as well.

Not to mention that Yao's stats were worth a damn because he was leading the Rockets to the playoffs while the Suns weren't within sniffing distance.

But I remember, Amare dunk on you. He better. Yup. And he scores more.

:uhoh:


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## RP McMurphy (Jul 17, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BEEZ</b>!
> 
> 
> There is a difference between cant and hasnt. and cant is the wrong word to use. The man waist down is a center, he hasnt bulked up yet up top but hes improvment. Also the fact of him being a little more than a year older have anything to do with him improving more as a player, athleticism aside.


I voted for Yao, but I don't understand this post at all. Are you seriously saying that age has nothing to do with how much potential a player has to improve?


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## Arclite (Nov 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>agoo101284</b>!
> 
> Take away Amare's athleticism, and you have a just another big body.


Take away Yao's legs and he's only a little bit taller than the average pygmy.

When Amare goes Shawn Kemp, gets high daily and gains 95 pounds from the resulting munchies, or when he goes Antonio McDyess and suffers two completely debilitating injuries, then you can make that argument.

Until then, Yao still has his legs and Amare still has his athleticism and that is not a legitimate argument.


----------



## Captain Obvious (Jun 15, 2003)

BigAmare you have failed to address a central point of many arguments. Put aside who is better at different facets of the game and look at the whole picture. Who would you rather have on your team? That is really the most important question. The answer is every team in the NBA would rather have Yao. Do you honestly think that Phoenix is better off with Amare? Or any other team for that matter. By the way, those stats you posted from 82games just work against your argument. You say Yao only gets 0.1 apg more than Amare, yet Yao's passer rating is almost twice Amare's. Also, you say Amare shoots more jumpers, but you failed to point out that he shoots a crappy 35.6%. Also, the Suns' net performance at the PF position is -0.8, meaning that on average the opposing PF outperforms Amare. In contrast, the net performance of Houston's C position is a whopping +6.6.



> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> Get a life and grow up kiddies.


:laugh: Coming from you that is simply hilarious.


----------



## Arclite (Nov 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Captain Obvious</b>!
> Also, the Suns' net performance at the PF position is -0.8, meaning that on average the opposing PF outperforms Amare. In contrast, the net performance of Houston's C position is a whopping +6.6.


Since San Antonio's net performance at C is +6.6 and only +5.2 at PF, Rasho Nesterovic is undoubtedly Tim Duncan's superior. Either that, or Rasho is as good as Yao.

Bzzt. Part of why those numbers look like that is because Tim Duncan and Rasho combine to form an extremely strong inside defensive presence, which limits the opposition's production from their bigs. Cato and Yao combine to form an even stronger one. A combination of Stoudemire and Voskuhl or McDyess at center is a horrible interior defensive tandem.

Another _small_ thing that you overlooked has to do with Amare Stoudemire matching up with Kevin Garnett, Tim Duncan, Elton Brand, Dirk Nowitzki, Pau Gasol and the like night in and night out versus Yao going against Shaq, Brad Miller, and then a bunch of crap.


----------



## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> 
> 
> Eddy Curry put up like 18/8 for 10 games. sheesh.
> ...


You realize he did that when the games meant nothing, don't you? It's not a coincidence he magically started putting up huge stats in games where his team was in last place in the Western Conference and in the midst of trading away their best player for cap relief and young talent. Plain and simple, those stats are inflated.




> Michael Jordan = Athlete
> John Stockton = Basketball Skills
> 
> -> Stockton far superior to MJ.
> ...


Way to twist agoo's point, which was actually a very good point. Like he said, Jordan was a great athlete *and* the most skilled player. Actually, Stockton wasn't a very skilled basketball player if you think about, he was just extremely intelligent and knew how to play the game. Either way, your point it moot because it's twisting an argument in a totally different direction by using poor examples. You're basically saying that Michael Jordan had no basketball skills. 




> _What skills does Amare have? Jumping isn't a skill. I don't see him having post moves other than running around someone, which also isn't a skill._
> 
> By far the dumbest thing ever posted. He was 4th in the league in scoring and #1 in FTA because he has no skills? Get a ****ing clue this is really retarded.


No, actually he wasn't 4th in the league in scoring nor was he #1 in FTA, and even if he was it doesn't mean he has skills. Again, you're points are invalid, all you're doing is skewing valid arguments and insulting people. 



> Amare is a FAR superior scorer to Yao, better post moves, has much more ball handling skills and knows how to draw fouls.


1 out of 3. He definitely doesn't have better post moves, that's just laughable to suggest that, and he doesn't have the ball handling or the jump shot that Yao has. He's better at drawing fouls, again just because of his athleticism.




> What basketball skills does Yao have? Shoot and be tall? LMAO. Don't say passing skills. Ever looked at his assists?


Assists don't tell the whole story, it's not even close. Yao can pass, Yao can shoot, already has an array of post moves and he can play defense. 



> _Oh yeah, Yao didn't get a chance to stat pad like Amare did in meaningless games because the Rockets were actually good._
> 
> Another retarded argument.


How about you refute the argument rather than dismissing it? You obviously have no response to this, considering it's true and you have nothing to say other than "another retarded argument".



> Tmac isn't a top30 player anymore?


Unlike Amare, T-Mac has put up big stats on a playoff team. Unlike Amare, T-Mac has been the best player on a playoff team.
T-Mac scored 32 ppg on a playoff team, do you not recall that? Amare was the 3rd best player on a team that made the playoffs. He was merely a role player, 13 and 9. 




> 2nd of all the Suns won more games when Amare was the man than they did with Marbury. Third of all they played .500 basketball at the end of the season. 4th Amare scored also more than Yao in his rookie season when Amare was on the better team and Yao had to watch. 5th the main reason Phoenix record was bad was because Amare missed almost 30!!! games and it is not like Houston won 30 games more.


Great arguments!  What does Phoenix playing .500 ball in meaningless games mean? Nothing. Atlanta has played better than .500 ball at the end of the season for the past two seasons, it doesn't mean anything at all. I love the argument that Amare missed 30 games, so the Suns would've been better than the Rockets since they didn't have 30 more wins than the Suns. I suppose if Amare had been healthy the Suns would've gone 30-0 in those games, right? :laugh: Listen to yourself, that argument was so ridiculous it's not even funny. 



> And everyone who says _ I almost hate Amare because of BigAmare _.
> 
> Get a life and grow up kiddies.


:laugh:


----------



## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Arclite</b>!
> 
> 
> Since San Antonio's net performance at C is +6.6 and only +5.2 at PF, Rasho Nesterovic is undoubtedly Tim Duncan's superior. Either that, or Rasho is as good as Yao.


Wrong. You fail to realize that Duncan plays almost half of his minutes at center when Rasho goes out of the games. All that says is that Rasho has more of an impact at center than the Spurs backup power forwards.


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## HeinzGuderian (Jun 29, 2004)

AMARE DUNK ON YOU


----------



## Arclite (Nov 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> 
> 
> Wrong. You fail to realize that Duncan plays almost half of his minutes at center when Rasho goes out of the games. All that says is that Rasho has more of an impact at center than the Spurs backup power forwards.


Yes, I do fail to realize that . Give me SOME credit, at least. That line was dripping with sarcasm, obviously. The entire point of my post was that there are too many factors that go into that kind of a statistic for it to have any merit in a player x vs. player y argument. The fact that Duncan plays backup C in San Antoino is just another one of those factors, as is the fact that while Yao Ming had a defensive powerhouse backing him up at center, Amare Stoudemire had a meek, scrawny rookie small forward backing him up. Jeez.


----------



## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Captain Obvious</b>!
> Also, the Suns' net performance at the PF position is -0.8, meaning that on average the opposing PF outperforms Amare. In contrast, the net performance of Houston's C position is a whopping +6.6.


kiddie alarm, kiddie alarm...

:upset: :upset: :no: :uhoh: :sour: :shy: 

That statistic is so valueable because Amare didn't miss 28 games.       

Do you even think before you post? :upset: :sigh:


----------



## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ArtestFan</b>!
> 
> 
> I voted for Yao, but I don't understand this post at all. Are you seriously saying that age has nothing to do with how much potential a player has to improve?


No not at all. I was pointing out that, hes using the age excuse as a solidified point when the age gap isnt that big. 21 to a 22 about to be 23 if he hasnt already year old man isnt that big of gap.


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> 
> 
> Wrong. You fail to realize that Duncan plays almost half of his minutes at center when Rasho goes out of the games. All that says is that Rasho has more of an impact at center than the Spurs backup power forwards.


I could simply point you towards the previous post.

82games.com doesn't list Duncan at C. NBA.com doesn't list Duncan as their starting center. No matter where he really plays the statistic matches him up against other PFs since Duncan is starting at PF wether you like it or not.

:upset:


----------



## Arclite (Nov 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> 
> That statistic is so valueable because Amare didn't miss 28 games.


What, you don't think a Zarko and Marion power forward tandem is effective out west?


----------



## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BEEZ</b>!
> 
> 
> No not at all. I was pointing out that, hes using the age excuse as a solidified point when the age gap isnt that big. 21 to a 22 about to be 23 if he hasnt already year old man isnt that big of gap.


Please.

Maybe the next time you are ignorantly repeating your point all the time make sure you are even right.

Yao is 23 and soon to be 24.
(Considering the situation with Yi who even knows if Yao isn't even a couple of years older than that)

Yao also played several years of organized pro basketball and international basketball while Amare played 2 seasons of highschool ball.


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> 
> You realize he did that when the games meant nothing, don't you? It's not a coincidence he magically started putting up huge stats in games where his team was in last place in the Western Conference and in the midst of trading away their best player for cap relief and young talent. Plain and simple, those stats are inflated.


That is coming from an Orlando and TMac fan.

Hypocrites at their best in this thread.

Funny how his team suddenly had a better record than before when he took over.



And this poll is about as valueable as Penny Hardaway's contract. Carlos Boozer wins polls against Amare on this board.


----------



## rebelsun (Nov 25, 2003)

Answer =


----------



## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> 
> 
> That is coming from an Orlando and TMac fan.
> ...


What does T-Mac or the Magic have to do with anything? Like I said, in my post which you have yet to respond to(I wonder why  ) T-Mac put up 32-7-5 on a playoff team, Amare hasn't put up good numbers on a playoff team. 




> Yes, I do fail to realize that . Give me SOME credit, at least. That line was dripping with sarcasm, obviously. The entire point of my post was that there are too many factors that go into that kind of a statistic for it to have any merit in a player x vs. player y argument. The fact that Duncan plays backup C in San Antoino is just another one of those factors, as is the fact that while Yao Ming had a defensive powerhouse backing him up at center, Amare Stoudemire had a meek, scrawny rookie small forward backing him up. Jeez.


I realize it was sarcastic, but you didn't make much of a point because the Spurs have nothing to do with Amare or those stats either way. 

I will give you some credit though, because you made a great point about Yao having a defensive power house backing him up at center. That site rates Kelvin Cato as the 3rd best defensive player at any position in the entire league. 



> I could simply point you towards the previous post.
> 
> 82games.com doesn't list Duncan at C. NBA.com doesn't list Duncan as their starting center. No matter where he really plays the statistic matches him up against other PFs since Duncan is starting at PF wether you like it or not.


What? No crap he's not the starting C, he's the backup C. I thought I made that pretty clear. :shy: 



> kiddie alarm, kiddie alarm...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It doesn't matter, that's only a fraction of the season and if Amare was as great as you claim he is, the Suns would still have more production from their PF spot than their opponents considering Amare did play the majority of the season.


----------



## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

Also
Amare =

















Amare 6 playoff games and 2 wins against the champion plus a historical moment.
Yao 5 playoff games 1 win against the runner up.


----------



## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> 
> 
> That is coming from an Orlando and TMac fan.
> ...


I'm still laughing at this. How is it hypocritical to say that Amare put up big numbers in meaningless games last season? It's the truth isn't it? Orlando and T-Mac have nothing to do with anything, and that's besides the point because McGrady put up _better_ stats the year before last season when the Magic were a playoff team. Yet again, a ridiculous argument by BigAmare.


----------



## "Matt!" (Jul 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> Also
> Amare =
> 
> ...


Well, excuse us for forgetting his epic battle in the Rookie-Sophmore Game, and somehow emerging from this hard-fought war as the MVP.

RotY I'll give credit where it's due, he earned it. But R/S Game, uh-uh.


----------



## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> 
> 
> What does T-Mac or the Magic have to do with anything? Like I said, in my post which you have yet to respond to(I wonder why  ) T-Mac put up 32-7-5 on a playoff team, Amare hasn't put up good numbers on a playoff team.
> ...


You really don't understand ANYTHING.

1. If you miss 28 games in the West and you have Googs, Harvey or whatever left at PF of course your opponents will have a huge advantage especially in the West.

Phoenix production at PF is no argument against Amare. Only an idiot would try to make that point or someone who is desperately grasping to find some "arguments".

And wether you said Tim Duncan is C or backup C doesn't make a difference. 82 games calculates all his stats at PF and against PFs because he is starting at PF.

And Amare held his own against Tim Duncan as a rookie out of highschool in the playoffs.


----------



## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Matt85163</b>!
> 
> 
> Well, excuse us for forgetting his epic battle in the Rookie-Sophmore Game, and somehow emerging from this hard-fought war as the MVP.
> ...


Agreed. I suppose Jamaal Magloire was the best player in the Eastern Conference last season, after all he scored the most points for the East in the All-Star game. :laugh:


----------



## Arclite (Nov 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> 
> 
> I realize it was sarcastic, but you didn't make much of a point because the Spurs have nothing to do with Amare or those stats either way.


I made the points I wanted to about the stat itself in regards to what it's worth is in an Amare vs. Yao argument, I was simply using the Spurs as an example to further display the fact that that each team has so many variables going into a stat so broad, and that is why it's pointless to bring that up in Yao's favor.


----------



## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> 
> 
> You really don't understand ANYTHING.
> ...


How about responding to my post? Don't respond to anything except this: Explain the correlation between Amare being a stat padder last season because his team sucked, and T-Mac being a stat padder because his team sucked last season, despite putting up better numbers on a playoff team the year before.


----------



## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> 
> 
> I'm still laughing at this. How is it hypocritical to say that Amare put up big numbers in meaningless games last season? It's the truth isn't it? Orlando and T-Mac have nothing to do with anything, and that's besides the point because McGrady put up _better_ stats the year before last season when the Magic were a playoff team. Yet again, a ridiculous argument by BigAmare.


TMac sucks because he lead the WORST team in the entire league despite an Eastern Conference schedule. Even when healthy he lost 20+ games in a row.

That's what you are saying.

You are a hypocrite. 

A team record has nothing to say about one players qualities or his statistics.

Besides that Amare played and won more playoff games than Yao.


And you are talking about a player who played only 2 seasons and missed a bunch of the 2nd season and criticize him for not putting up ridiculous stats on a better team? Are you kidding me?

With his stats he lead the Suns to a better record than what they had WITH Marbury and that is despite a coaching change, despite changing the system during the season with no preparation time and everyone having to find his new role.


----------



## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Arclite</b>!
> 
> 
> I made the points I wanted to about the stat itself in regards to what it's worth is in an Amare vs. Yao argument, I was simply using the Spurs as an example to further display the fact that that each team has so many variables going into a stat so broad, and that is why it's pointless to bring that up in Yao's favor.


Point taken, but you do realize who even brought up that stat, don't you? BigAmare. He provided the libk to that site with that stat.


----------



## Arclite (Nov 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> 
> 
> Point taken, but you do realize who even brought up that stat, don't you? BigAmare. He provided the libk to that site with that stat.


CaptainObvious did.


----------



## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> 
> 
> Agreed. I suppose Jamaal Magloire was the best player in the Eastern Conference last season, after all he scored the most points for the East in the All-Star game. :laugh:


Just that the East lost while Amare dominated the game and broke the scoring record.

Fact... Amare can still win every award available. Yao can't. Yao will never win ROY, Yao will never win that Schick MVP or break the Rookie-Soph scoring record.


----------



## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> 
> 
> TMac sucks because he lead the WORST team in the entire league despite an Eastern Conference schedule. Even when healthy he lost 20+ games in a row.
> ...


Again, McGrady proved himself in past seasons on winning ball clubs.



> A team record has nothing to say about one players qualities or his statistics.
> 
> Besides that Amare played and won more playoff games than Yao.


As the 3rd best player on his team. Who cares?


----------



## The_Franchise (Mar 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Matt85163</b>!
> Well, excuse us for forgetting his epic battle in the Rookie-Sophmore Game, and somehow emerging from this hard-fought war as the MVP.


:laugh: 

And BigAmare, you really shouldn't be talking about valuable statistics. You'll use any number as long as Amare has more of it than Yao, like number of playoffs games won with Marbury and Marion as the #1 and #2 options, or the number of Rookie-Sophomore MVP's that Amare has won. While Amare was throwing down alley-oops and padding his stats, Yao was on the bench. Getting ready for his second All Star game.

How low will you go, stereotyping Yao as being older than he really is because a countrymen was involved in a scandal. Pathetic.


----------



## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> 
> 
> How about responding to my post? Don't respond to anything except this: Explain the correlation between Amare being a stat padder last season because his team sucked, and T-Mac being a stat padder because his team sucked last season, despite putting up better numbers on a playoff team the year before.


His team was better than before, they actually won .500 at the end of the season when he shredded the entire Kings team basically and beat several other contenders.

Who still cares about the year before last year? What matters is the present. And Tmac played on by far the worst team in the league.

You also didn't adress that Amare didn't even lead his own team in 4th quarter scoring. 

Well that's weird huh? I thought he was stat-padding in blowouts all the time. LMAO

If you lose many games it doesn't mean every game is a blowout. Phoenix lost TWICE as many game as any other team in the league by less than 5 points.


----------



## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> 
> As the 3rd best player on his team. Who cares?



Even Stephon Marbury gave all the credit to Amare for their run.

And so did many other "experts".


----------



## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> 
> 
> Just that the East lost while Amare dominated the game and broke the scoring record.
> ...


Let me get this straight...You're using awards gathered in an exhibition game as proof that Amare is a better player? I think that's a sign that you've lost the argument and it's time to give up. 



> CaptainObvious did.


No he didn't, BigAmare provided the link.

http://basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?postid=1398939#post1398939


----------



## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> 
> 
> His team was better than before, they actually won .500 at the end of the season when he shredded the entire Kings team basically and beat several other contenders.


Again, so have the Hawks the past two seasons, that doesn't mean anything.



> Who still cares about the year before last year? What matters is the present. And Tmac played on by far the worst team in the league.


OK, then stop talking about Amare's performences in the playoffs, or his ROY award because they don't mean anything.



> You also didn't adress that Amare didn't even lead his own team in 4th quarter scoring.
> 
> Well that's weird huh? I thought he was stat-padding in blowouts all the time. LMAO


The point is that they played in meaningless games. It doesn't matter what quarter he was doing it in, because the 4th quarter means just as much as the 1st, 2nd and 3rd, especially for a team playing for nothing.


----------



## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>The Franchise</b>!
> 
> 
> :laugh:
> ...


I didn't even bring up the age factor.  

So Amare was padding his stats in the rookie-sophomore game as well? :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: 

Man every time Shaq destroys a team he is "just padding his stats" throwing down alley oops.

And Yao got to his 2nd allstar game? Great accomplishment when you have several billions potential voters and media hype around you. 

Steve Francis also was an allstar. Grant Hill, Alonzo Mourning...lol


----------



## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> 
> 
> No he didn't, BigAmare provided the link.
> ...



Are you really that stupid? Because I provided the link doesn't mean I made that point.

I CORRECTED that point which was WRONG.


----------



## Arclite (Nov 2, 2002)

He linked to Amare's 82games profile, but Captain Obvious was the one who cited the team position by position net stat being so much in Yao's favor, and he was who I was responding to.


----------



## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Why can't you argue civily? Don't take everything so personal, and just dispute my arguments, as well as anyone else who posts against your view without attacking and insulting. It's really not necessary, and it just makes you look childish.


----------



## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> The point is that they played in meaningless games. It doesn't matter what quarter he was doing it in, because the 4th quarter means just as much as the 1st, 2nd and 3rd, especially for a team playing for nothing.


That makes absolutely no sense.

Teams play for pride. Not every team is a lame *** tanker ball club like Orlando who needs 3 #1 picks in the last 12 years or so and still can't do a damn thing.

That's a losers attitude, Phoenix didn't go that low. And if you knew a damn thing about Amare you would know that he takes no game as meaningless.

Besides that basketball is played by 2 teams and Memphis and Sacramento both needed wins badly at the end of the season and lost. Meaningless games... yeah right.


----------



## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> 
> So Amare was padding his stats in the rookie-sophomore game as well? :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:


Yes, he sure as hell was. It's not a bad thing, it's just the truth. Stats in all-star games mean nothing.



> Man every time Shaq destroys a team he is "just padding his stats" throwing down alley oops.


Not even close to the same, I know you can see that.



> And Yao got to his 2nd allstar game? Great accomplishment when you have several billions potential voters and media hype around you.


Yao was a very deserving all-star this season, period. He's the 2nd best center in the league, there's no disputing that. Again, don't bring the whole race thing into this, being Chinese may have helped him start the game, but he was a more than deserving backup.


----------



## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> 
> 
> Why can't you argue civily? Don't take everything so personal, and just dispute my arguments, as well as anyone else who posts against your view without attacking and insulting. It's really not necessary, and it just makes you look childish.


It is one thing to argue civily. 

It is another when guys like you, beez, captain obvious etc make simply stupid, made up or false arguments.


----------



## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> 
> Yao was a very deserving all-star this season, period. He's the 2nd best center in the league, there's no disputing that. Again, don't bring the whole race thing into this, being Chinese may have helped him start the game, but he was a more than deserving backup.


Even if. The only reason he would have made it as a backup is that he is classified as a center and competes with average players for the spot.


----------



## The_Franchise (Mar 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> I didn't even bring up the age factor.





> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> Yao is 23 and soon to be 24.
> (Considering the situation with Yi *who even knows if Yao isn't even a couple of years older than that*)





> So Amare was padding his stats in the rookie-sophomore game as well? :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
> 
> Man every time Shaq destroys a team he is "just padding his stats" throwing down alley oops.


All I was trying to say was that Yao had bigger things on his mind than going all out and winning the coveted prize of Rookie-Sophomore game MVP.



> And Yao got to his 2nd allstar game? Great accomplishment when you have several billions potential voters and media hype around you.
> 
> Steve Francis also was an allstar. Grant Hill, Alonzo Mourning...lol


Give credit where it's due. Yao won in the ballots given around the NBA team stadiums as well, so the billion voter argument doesn't work.


----------



## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> 
> 
> That makes absolutely no sense.
> ...


It makes perfect sense. Phoenix was playing for a better pick in the draft, that's it. Phoenix didn't need to tank anything, they were bad enough already. Again, why do you keep bringing the Magic and T-Mac into this argument, neither has anything to do with the topic. You just keep proving why you should stop arguing because all of your points are insulting me or another poster that doesn't love Amare, or bringing up a subject completely unrelated to the one we're debating.


----------



## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> 
> 
> It is one thing to argue civily.
> ...


My arguments have not attacked you, nor have they brought something completely unrelated to the topic into the discussion. I've argued the topic by stating my opinions and backing them up with facts. I don't know what else you'd like me to do, but just because I make an argument you don't agree with doesn't make it false.


----------



## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>The Franchise</b>!
> Give credit where it's due. Yao won in the ballots given around the NBA team stadiums as well, so the billion voter argument doesn't work.


Yeah lol.

Because there are no chinese living in the USA and Yao has so many guys to battle for their votes.

If Yao wasn't chinese he would not have started over Shaq it is as simple as that. If you don't believe that you are just naive.

And your quote is so funny. Considering that I said I didn't bring up the age argument. Thanks for proving my point since I was only replying to beez who kept making Yao a year younger than he is to prove his point that Yao is almost as young as Amare.


----------



## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> 
> 
> It is one thing to argue civily.
> ...


Thats the last insult I am going to allow you to hand out towards our poster base and myself see you in 3 days.


PS By the way off all of the obvious arguments you choose to point out a MISTAKE in age. Big deal. I was wrong whereas you have never to this point in any of your threads backed up when asked about Amare's skill set.

Bye bye now


----------



## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> 
> 
> My arguments have not attacked you, nor have they brought something completely unrelated to the topic into the discussion. I've argued the topic by stating my opinions and backing them up with facts. I don't know what else you'd like me to do, but just because I make an argument you don't agree with doesn't make it false.


Where are those facts about stat padding? Where?

That's just lame and not backed up. It is nothing more than bashing.

You think I am not argueing civily? No surprise. You aren't even arguing you are bashing and nothing else.


----------



## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> 
> 
> Yeah lol.
> ...


you just dont give up and obviously you havent really paid much attention. I mentioned it twice. I dont now what over and over again you were talking about. It was an honest mistake.


----------



## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BEEZ</b>!
> 
> Bye bye now


Yeah come on now. Please ban me. Take the easy way out. :laugh:


----------



## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> 
> 
> It makes perfect sense. Phoenix was playing for a better pick in the draft, that's it. Phoenix didn't need to tank anything, they were bad enough already. Again, why do you keep bringing the Magic and T-Mac into this argument, neither has anything to do with the topic. You just keep proving why you should stop arguing because all of your points are insulting me or another poster that doesn't love Amare, or bringing up a subject completely unrelated to the one we're debating.


Phoenix didn't tank games. They played for a better pick? They played for a better record. If they had tanked they would have picked higer than what they did. Had they tanked they would not beat Memphis and Sacramento and Utah in the last week. They could have had the Clips odds for the top3 but they decided to beat the hell out of Utah.

There are some people who still have pride unlike here.


----------



## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> 
> 
> Where are those facts about stat padding? Where?
> ...


That is my opinion, and I backed it up by saying he put those stats up on a terrible team, whereas he put up mediocre stats on a playoff team. Those are the facts, period.


----------



## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> 
> 
> Yeah come on now. Please ban me. Take the easy way out. :laugh:


easy way out. I find it quite funny that you told a poster to argue civilly yet 3 times in this one thread I have had to edit you for calling a poster an idiot, stupid and so on and so forth. There is no place for it here.

Besides there are more than enough threads where I have Checkmated your arguments. See ya


----------



## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> 
> 
> That is my opinion, and I backed it up by saying he put those stats up on a terrible team, whereas he put up mediocre stats on a playoff team. Those are the facts, period.


Terrible team doesn't translate to stat padding. What else can you say other than that is a stupid argument? It makes ZERO sense.

And he put up mediocre stats on a playoff team? LOL

At that point NO highschool to NBA rookie has ever put up stats like that as a rookie and the only one who did, didn't even make the playoffs in the East.


----------



## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> 
> 
> Phoenix didn't tank games. They played for a better pick? They played for a better record. If they had tanked they would have picked higer than what they did. Had they tanked they would not beat Memphis and Sacramento and Utah in the last week. They could have had the Clips odds for the top3 but they decided to beat the hell out of Utah.
> ...


Please, don't put words into my mouth. I didn't say they tanked games, obviously they didn't, they just weren't a good team. What I said was at that point in the season they weren't playing for anything but pride and a higher pick.


----------



## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> 
> 
> Terrible team doesn't translate to stat padding. What else can you say other than that is a stupid argument? It makes ZERO sense.


It makes perfect sense, if you can't see that you're beyond my help.



> And he put up mediocre stats on a playoff team? LOL
> 
> At that point NO highschool to NBA rookie has ever put up stats like that as a rookie and the only one who did, didn't even make the playoffs in the East.


I have a feeling if LeBron had Marbury and Shawn Marion on his team they would've made the playoffs. :laugh:


----------



## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BEEZ</b>!
> 
> 
> easy way out. I find it quite funny that you told a poster to argue civilly yet 3 times in this one thread I have had to edit you for calling a poster an idiot, stupid and so on and so forth. There is no place for it here.
> ...


Wrong. I only said stupid. Wow that's harsh. The truth is the truth what else am I supposed to say? Stupid is stupid.

What about freemdom of speech?

If you are going to edit stupid or anything like that why don't you write all posts by yourself and argue with yourself? Don't crap your pants I just might call you stupid again.

Please ban me so I can comeback again to see all those celebration posts about me being gone so you can all make up again and continue to live in your made up dreamland.


----------



## The_Franchise (Mar 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> Because there are no chinese living in the USA and Yao has so many guys to battle for their votes.
> 
> If Yao wasn't chinese he would not have started over Shaq it is as simple as that. If you don't believe that you are just naive.


Are you in denial? NBA arenas are not dominated by Chinese folk waiting to cast their votes for Yao. 



> And your quote is so funny. Considering that I said I didn't bring up the age argument. Thanks for proving my point since I was only replying to beez who kept making Yao a year younger than he is to prove his point that Yao is almost as young as Amare.


My quote is downright hilarious. You took a low blow at Yao, and I pointed it out. Yao Ming is 23 years old and that is a fact. The fact that he's Chinese doesn't mean he lied about his age like Yi did.


----------



## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>The Franchise</b>!
> My quote is downright hilarious. You took a low blow at Yao, and I pointed it out. Yao Ming is 23 years old and that is a fact. The fact that he's Chinese doesn't mean he lied about his age like Yi did.


The fact that is born and raised in China means that there is a much better chance his passport and personal documents are not correct.

Fact.


----------



## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> 
> 
> Wrong. I only said stupid. Wow that's harsh. The truth is the truth what else am I supposed to say? Stupid is stupid.
> ...


Maybe if you concentrated on refuting arguments as much as you do insulting other posters you could engage in a civil discussion, rather than ruining a perfectly good thread like this with your denial to the fact that negative things can be said about Amare Stoudemire and the Phoenix Suns.


----------



## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

Please the editing policy on this board is about as correct as the SS, Mafia and Stasi combined.

If I got one cent for everytime someone tries to bait me, insults me or attacks me I would have made a lot of money off of this board. 

Of course nobody bothers to edit that.


----------



## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

BigAmare no one is taking away your freedom of speech, this board has rules and if you like go back in this thread and see my replies to your statements and you will see I have edited you at 3 times. NO it wasnt that once. Nobody is going to ban you, you need to know what is and what is not allowed. You can call me names all day. Fine with me but you will not keep attacking the posters.


----------



## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> rather than ruining a perfectly good thread like this.


If you are considering one-sided good...lol
There are also several things in this thread before that I could see as an attack towards myself.

This thread was not good, this thread was a butt kissing festival of Yao fans, Anti-Amare fans and Anti-BigAmare posters.


----------



## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

Just because a thread does not praise Amare does not make it a bad thread. There was legitimate discussion from both sides going on. Rebel Sun and Arclite were providing good arguments from the Amare side of things WITHOUT insulting other posters. Look at the difference in their posts and yours, and try to figure out whats wrong with how you're debating things.


----------



## Captain Obvious (Jun 15, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> 
> 
> kiddie alarm, kiddie alarm...
> ...


Yes I do think, unlike you. As was pointed out in the last few pages of this thread it was YOU who posted the link to all those stats I used. It's easy to say the stats are twisted because Amare missed time but you know that Amare played the majority of the minutes at the 4 for the Suns. 

Don't you notice that nobody is defending your irrational line of logic? All you do is attack other people and make ridiculous arguments. The only reason more posters aren't responding to your idiocy is they already know you are the biggest homer on the face of the planet. Your latest arguments have included bashing the Magic and pointing out Amare's "historic" Rookie-Sophomore game. First off, I'm not sure what the Magic have to do with this. Oh wait, that happens to be hobojoe and I's favorite team. Since you know you're wrong you choose to attack our crappy team instead, which has nothing to do with anything. As for Amare's Rookie game MVP, well that was nice. Too bad Yao was busy playing in the real thing. Don't tell me he shouldn't have been the starter because I agree with you. However, he was the best choice for backup center both years so he would have been on the team anyway, unlike Amare.

[STRIKE]Please don't respond to this unless you have a halfway intelligent argument. Actually, I know you don't so do this whole site a favor and stop posting :grinning: .[/STRIKE]

Please don't tell other posters not to post, thanks- hobojoe


----------



## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> Just because a thread does not praise Amare does not make it a bad thread. There was legitimate discussion from both sides going on. Rebel Sun and Arclite were providing good arguments from the Amare side of things WITHOUT insulting other posters. Look at the difference in their posts and yours, and try to figure out whats wrong with how you're debating things.



Umm what do you consider all that?

All of those posts are just on 3 pages and all of them are stupid and/or not on topic and/or offensive towards me and/or trying to bait me.



> Originally posted by <b>NugzFan</b>!
> once again because of BigAmare, i choose yao.





> Originally posted by <b>John The Cool Kid</b>!
> 
> 
> Hes going to cry when he sees this thread.





> Originally posted by <b>Outkast</b>!
> 
> Not only from the Marketing Standpoint Yao is better player now, he will be better than Amare *always*





> Originally posted by <b>Captain Obvious</b>!
> 
> 
> No, that's not it at all. Sure, BigAmare is annoying as hell but I think everybody knows that they rather have Yao. It's not even close.





> Originally posted by <b>PoorPoorSonics</b>!
> Yao, without a doubt. Now and *forever*.





> Originally posted by <b>Lakota_Blazer</b>!
> Yao Ming, and it's not even close. You'd have to be an absolute homer to pick Amare of Ming.





> Originally posted by <b>Lakota_Blazer</b>!
> As it should be! Would you want a very skilled 7'6" center or a 6'8" player who only has 2 post moves?
> 
> Those 4 votes Amare has is 4 more than he should have on this poll.





> Originally posted by <b>NugzFan</b>!
> 
> 
> i will always vote against amare in polls on this site. always.
> ...





> Originally posted by <b>Lakota_Blazer</b>!
> This has got to be the most one-sided poll ever! 91% vs 9%


----------



## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Captain Obvious</b>!
> 
> **Edited**


**Edited: You do your job, I'll do mine.**

And I am speechless. You are still thinking your argument holds water althoug Amare missed 28 games and came off of the bench shortly after his recovery.

That is simply called bashing or stupid, sorry it is as simple as that.

If you don't agree that a statistic is worthless that compares PF minutes against each other when Amare missed more than 1/3 of the season you might not believe than 1+1=2.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well, you certainly haven't disappointed all those posters anticipating your reaction to this thread. You've put on quite a show of immaturity and bias. You just keep feeding the fire.


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## Captain Obvious (Jun 15, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> 
> 
> If you are considering one-sided good...lol
> ...


Actually I think most people are just anti-BigAmare. I like watching both Yao and Amare play. But like most intelligent basketball fans I think Yao is the better player so in your mind I'm the mortal enemy.


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## The_Franchise (Mar 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> The fact that is born and raised in China means that there is a much better chance his passport and personal documents are not correct.
> 
> Fact.


A Child that is brought up by a single parent who serves time in prison, as well as a brother serving time in prison has a better chance of becoming a criminal than those that don't.

And that is how relevant your facts are.


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## Torim (Jun 22, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> 
> 
> The fact that is born and raised in China means that there is a much better chance his passport and personal documents are not correct.
> ...


And Amare was almost 20 when he graduated *High School*, that means there is a much chance that he is....I dunno, about as skilled in the english language as Yao.


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>The Franchise</b>!
> 
> 
> A Child that is brought up by a single parent who serves time in prison, as well as a brother serving time in prison has a better chance of becoming a criminal than those that don't.
> ...


Sure it is but...first of all Amare was 13 or 14 when his father died.

Second of all it is a FACT that Amare didn't become a criminal.


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## Captain Obvious (Jun 15, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> 
> 
> **Edited**
> ...


The stat is skewed but it still carries value. The stat is only a very, very small part of my argument anyway. And yes, the last part of my post was bashing. Unfortunately for you, it's also true.


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Torim</b>!
> 
> 
> And Amare was almost 20 when he graduated *High School*, that means there is a much chance that he is....I dunno, about as skilled in the english language as Yao.


  

Things like that...

Maybe you read up on Amare before arguing? One of his highschools doctored his grades to make him ineligible and he got blackmail from a coach.

Not to mention that he had to change highschool 6 times over 2 years or something like that because of his family.


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## The_Franchise (Mar 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> Sure it is but...first of all Amare was 13 or 14 when his father died.


He was 12.



> Second of all it is a FACT that Amare didn't become a criminal.


It is NOT a fact, just because he's a millionaire doesn't prohibit him from becoming a criminal.

And how is saying "Forever" or "Always" baiting?


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## Like A Breath (Jun 16, 2003)

Yao's parents were both on the Chinese National Team, I highly doubt that they could change his age. A lot of people knew when he was born.


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## Torim (Jun 22, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh right, the fact that he finished High School at that age is an outrageous display of rampant hate.
Yet a totally unsupported claim of someone's age being "doctored" (hoho) is the epitome of fairness.

Do you actually read what you write every now and then or are you having a spectral-out-of-body-experience everytime you post?


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## YaoEatDog (Mar 16, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>The Franchise</b>!
> It is NOT a fact, just because he's a millionaire doesn't prohibit him from becoming a criminal.
> 
> And how is saying "Forever" or "Always" baiting?


He has no criminal history at all while growing up in that neighborhood.

And forever and always isn't baiting. It falls in the category called stupid.


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## YaoEatDog (Mar 16, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Torim</b>!
> 
> 
> Oh right, the fact that he finished High School at that age is an outrageous display of rampant hate.
> ...


Unsupported claim?

It was a life story about Amare's growing up on HBO.

http://www.basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=89990&highlight=amare+doctored


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## Torim (Jun 22, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>YaoEatDog</b>!
> 
> 
> Unsupported claim?
> ...


Talking about BigAmare accusing Yao of having his age "doctored"....
EDIT: And that just because he is Chinese and one semi-famous guy out of 1.3 billion happened to lie about his age.


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## YaoEatDog (Mar 16, 2004)

lol

I said there might even be the possibility of his age being wrong. I didn't say it was definately. The main point was that Yao is considerably older than Amare and has received a lot more basketball teaching so far.


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## Captain Obvious (Jun 15, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>YaoEatDog</b>!
> lol
> 
> I said there might even be the possibility of his age being wrong. I didn't say it was definately. The main point was that Yao is considerably older than Amare and has received a lot more basketball teaching so far.


LOL this guy is definitely BigAmare under another name.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>YaoEatDog</b>!
> lol
> 
> I said there might even be the possibility of his age being wrong. I didn't say it was definately. The main point was that Yao is considerably older than Amare and has received a lot more basketball teaching so far.


Welcome back BigAmare. What part of "suspended" did you not understand?


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## Torim (Jun 22, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>YaoEatDog</b>!
> lol
> 
> I said there might even be the possibility of his age being wrong. I didn't say it was definately. The main point was that Yao is considerably older than Amare and has received a lot more basketball teaching so far.


Two years hardly qualifies as considerably. I should probably sign up a 2nd account to agree with myself aswell though.


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## KeiranHalcyon (Nov 27, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>YaoEatDog</b>!
> 
> And forever and always isn't baiting. It falls in the category called stupid.


No, it means that all other things being equal, Yao simply has more upside than Amare.

No matter how many 20-10 seasons Amare puts up, if Yao puts up a 17-9 season, GMs will take him. Why? He's seven-foot-six. That's BIG. That means he alters shots just by being near the basket. It means that the only thing holding him back is the "killer instinct" he hasn't quite gotten in two years in the NBA. And the GMs will always, ALWAYS think that maybe this year, he can explode.

Even if he never reaches Amare's stat level, he is still more highly prized than Amare.

Fact is, there are so few true centers in the league that a 7-6 guy with a great skill set when the last dominant center is on the decline is too good to pass up.

No matter how many times Amare has better stats, Yao would be a higher prized commodity.

And, for the record, Amare has one more playoff game experience and victory than Yao. They EACH have four playoff losses. Let's not use that as an argument anymore.


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## QRICH (Feb 2, 2004)

The tribe has spoken......Yao Ming wins w/o a challenge


99 votes vs 13 votes, but i want an inestigation! lol, You know "BigAmare" has more than one screen name just in case a poll like this pops up.


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## FanOfAll8472 (Jun 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> Wrong. I only said stupid. Wow that's harsh. The truth is the truth what else am I supposed to say? Stupid is stupid.
> 
> What about freemdom of speech?
> ...


Wrong.


> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b> on Page 4
> Watch some basketball games please. Yeah Amare has no skills....
> 
> *That argument is so lame, your entire post was totally worthless. If you can't contribute to the argument don't even post.*
> ...





> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b> on Page 5
> By far the dumbest thing ever posted. He was 4th in the league in scoring and #1 in FTA because he has no skills? Get a ****ing clue this is really retarded.





> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b> on Page 5
> Get a life and grow up kiddies.


Anyways, like a lot of the posters, how exactly does it matter if Amare won MVP of the rookie-sophomore game or if Amare can still win all the possible awards in the game and Yao can't?


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## PoorPoorSonics (Mar 20, 2004)

Wow I didnt know adding in a, "forever and always" would upset you BigAmare  . I truly am sorry. I just put it to point out I would take Yao now, and I never see Amare becoming better than Yao.
Considering he cant do anything but dunk and yell.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:


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## Eamer (Jul 15, 2004)

Yao


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## The Cat (Jul 14, 2002)

Anyone notice the irony in some of BigAmare's posts?

He dismisses Yao's All Star Game starts because he was "voted in", and praises Amare for winning ROY. Oddly, he leaves out the fact that Amare also won his award because of *voting*! :laugh:


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## QRICH (Feb 2, 2004)

It's fun watching "BigAmare" get all emotional :laugh: Callin people names, sayin Yao sucks ect... Yao has almost 100 more votes than Amare!!


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## Yao Mania (Aug 4, 2003)

I think someone started this poll just to piss bigamare off, I saw all this coming once I saw this thread a few days ago :laugh:


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## texan (Jul 10, 2003)

Yao. 


Why was this post madE?


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## John (Jun 9, 2002)

Guys, let Bigamare back.

The guy's homerism level is at another level. Can you find other homers like him?

Let him post, I can shut him off easily. Mentioned freaking every single moves/weakness that he possess!


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## John (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Yao Mania</b>!
> I think someone started this poll just to piss bigamare off, I saw all this coming once I saw this thread a few days ago :laugh:


ANd you? With Yao Avatar thinking he could be the next dominating centre. The guy is hardly even Ewing in his prime, let alone that he can be the Shaq in the nba losers!


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## Yao Mania (Aug 4, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>John</b>!
> 
> 
> ANd you? With Yao Avatar thinking he could be the next dominating centre. The guy is hardly even Ewing in his prime, let alone that he can be the Shaq in the nba losers!


Didn't I have a Yao argument with you awhile back already? :|

by the way I've grown fond of bigamare as a poster. Aside from his obvious bias from everything relating to Amare I think he does make good posts on this board. So yah hope he comes back soon!


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## John (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Yao Mania</b>!
> 
> 
> Didn't I have a Yao argument with you awhile back already? :|


Well, I am a true chinese, so when I mentioned Chinese cant play A,erican sport, I am no racist. But Chinese just dont have the stamina, the athleticism to play in the NBA at a high level for 48 minutes!


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## agoo (Jun 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>John</b>!
> 
> 
> Well, I am a true chinese, so when I mentioned Chinese cant play A,erican sport, I am no racist. But Chinese just dont have the stamina, the athleticism to play in the NBA at a high level for 48 minutes!


Uh...Americans don't have the stamina or the athleticism to play in the NBA for a high level for 48 minutes. When was the last time, if there ever was a time, that someone played 48 minutes a game?


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>agoo101284</b>!
> 
> When was the last time, if there ever was a time, that someone played 48 minutes a game?


Wilt Chamberlain averaged *over* 48 minutes per game one season.

And Yao can't even play just 48 minutes per game? For shame, Yao. For shame.


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## 33 (Nov 18, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Yao Mania</b>!
> 
> 
> Didn't I have a Yao argument with you awhile back already? :|
> ...


BigAmare is *edited: Don't attack other users*. He made me have a disliking for Amare........I used to like him but BigAmare has made me wish that he has the worst season of all time coming up.


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## Flamesta (Jul 12, 2004)

Why ban BigAmare, its characteristics similar to his that bring life to this board.
(well not life, but interest)


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Flamesta</b>!
> Why ban BigAmare, its characteristics similar to his that bring life to this board.
> (well not life, but interest)


He wasnt banned he was suspended because of his constant name calling and belittiling of poster he will be back on Sunday @ 12


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## John (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BEEZ</b>!
> 
> 
> He wasnt banned he was suspended because of his constant name calling and belittiling of poster he will be back on Sunday @ 12


Okay, so before he comes, I better tkae advantage here.

lol, so if BigAmare doesnt come up and comment in 5 hours time, he will admit that Amare is not better than Yao.

But I hate Yao personally. So you guys can check my unbiasnesses here.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>John</b>!
> 
> 
> Okay, so before he comes, I better tkae advantage here.
> ...


John who is your favorite player not named Penny Hardaway


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## "Matt!" (Jul 24, 2002)

Question: Amare Stoudemire, or God?

Answer: Trick question, Amare Stoudemire IS God.

Da....Suns.


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## jokeaward (May 22, 2003)

Teams that played Phoenix wanted to win games. They didn't just let Amare score unless they were up by a lot and it was late, but Phoenix was a team that lost a ton of CLOSE games this year.

And Amare's injury certainly didn't help put them in playoff contention early on. It's not his fault all he could do was come back to a poor team and just put up stats. Duncan got to return to Rasho, Turkoglu, etc. from injury and go for the 1 seed.


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## LA68 (Apr 3, 2004)

Why don't you just make polls comparing each player to Amare. 

Yao can learn to be aggressive but, Amare cannot learn to be 7'6"

Anyway, Yao is a better shooterand better post up player.


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## John (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BEEZ</b>!
> 
> 
> John who is your favorite player not named Penny Hardaway


Vince carter

My fav poster is not Beex for sure!


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>John</b>!
> 
> 
> Vince carter
> ...


Thats cool, I wouldnt like a poster named Beex either


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## PHXSPORTS4LIFE (May 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Cusematt23</b>!
> 
> 
> The reason I think he has little room for improvement is because his skills are so good and developed already. Yao's skills in Amare's body = Top 3 player in league. Hell probably even #1.


hmm, that's an excellent point. if you reverse it and say amare's athleticism in yao's 7'5 body he'd be the best in the league would also be correct. problem with the reversing it is that it isn't possible, whereas it IS possible for amare to acquire the skills that yao possesses . . . hence, more upside for amare than yao. wow.


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## PHXSPORTS4LIFE (May 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> Please the editing policy on this board is about as correct as the SS, Mafia and Stasi combined.
> 
> If I got one cent for everytime someone tries to bait me, insults me or attacks me I would have made a lot of money off of this board.
> ...


eh, i don't agree with the manner in which bigamare debates, but i gotta agree, he does get baited and attacked a lot. just see how many times his username was even mentioned prior to his posting on this thread...


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## PHXSPORTS4LIFE (May 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>33</b>!
> 
> 
> BigAmare is *edited: Don't attack other users*. He made me have a disliking for Amare........I used to like him but BigAmare has made me wish that he has the worst season of all time coming up.


i think it's sad that most of you have been so colored by bigamare's posts. think for yourselves people.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>PHXSPORTS4LIFE</b>!
> 
> 
> hmm, that's an excellent point. if you reverse it and say amare's athleticism in yao's 7'5 body he'd be the best in the league would also be correct. problem with the reversing it is that it isn't possible, whereas it IS possible for amare to acquire the skills that yao possesses . . . hence, more upside for amare than yao. wow.


I don't think so. Unless one of the skills Amare acquires is the ability to be 7'5'', than I don't see him having more upside than Yao.


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## PHXSPORTS4LIFE (May 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>LA68</b>!
> Why don't you just make polls comparing each player to Amare.
> 
> Yao can learn to be aggressive but, Amare cannot learn to be 7'6"
> ...


see, right here the argument is partially right, partially wrong, and seemingly deliberately misses a serious point.

partially right - amare cannot learn to be 7'6

but yao also cannot learn to be more athletic

amare CAN, however, learn the skills that yao possesses. so he can improve.

finally, partially wrong - yao cannot learn to be more aggressive. that is something that you either have innately (sp?) (i.e, you're born with it), or you learn it as a youth through experience. yao has been playing basketball, and at a high level (international competition may not be the nba, but jeez, it's still international competition! tell me that's not competitive!!!), for a long time and hasn't really shown (at least not in the nba) the aggressiveness that i look for in a championship LEADING player.

again, i said earlier i'd take ming 'cuz you just can't get 7'5 of skilled center anywhere else, but i don't think he's ever going to match amare's intensity, and he certainly will never match his athleticism, whereas if amare continues to improve, and all indications are that he strives to improve, he can someday acquire yao's vaunted skills.

put bigamare aside for a second and i think most of you will admit that while you probably still would select yao, amare is not far back on your list of desired players.


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## PHXSPORTS4LIFE (May 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> 
> 
> I don't think so. Unless one of the skills Amare acquires is the ability to be 7'5'', than I don't see him having more upside than Yao.


maybe it's playing semantics, but what i meant by saying "more upside" was "more potential for growth in their respective games."


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## Derrex (Jul 21, 2002)

Lets put it this way, Amare, a 6'9, Aggressive and Atheletic PF is was easier to find than Yao, a 7'6 Skilled Center. Aggressiveness can be learned to a degree. He might never get close to Amare's level, but with confidence and more years in the league, he'll start believing that hes the next big thing and start pushing people. Anyways, he'll become far more aggressive than Amare will become tall. Yao might also not have Amare's athleticism, but athleticism is certainly overrated when you're talking a 9 inch height difference. Amare is at avg PF height at best, while Yao towers above other centers. Also, athleticism declines as players age. Unless Amare improves his jumpshot and skill set, I can't see him having a good career once he starts downhill. Yao, on the otherhand, will always have that jumpshot he can shoot and he'll always have the superior height to pull it off.


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## John (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BEEZ</b>!
> 
> 
> Thats cool, I wouldnt like a poster named Beex either


Playing with words? I dont!

People knew who I was saying there, but if a comm mod dont, that's fine.

<strike>because F that beex guy anyway! F!kers!</strike>(JOHN! You know better.) :nonono:


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## farhan007 (Jun 6, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


you brought it upon youself with your unusual fasination with Amare.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>John</b>!
> 
> 
> Playing with words? I dont!
> ...


:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:


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## Baron Davis (Apr 14, 2004)

Amare has good hops, has strength and agressiveness but he averages under 10 RPG.  He has no post moves and no jump shot, and just like others have said, all he does is dunk and yell.


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## ljt (May 24, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>RebelSun</b>!
> Answer =


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## Takeit2dahouse00 (Jun 12, 2002)

Yao


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## Anima (Jun 3, 2003)

Yao, there have been alot of good athletic PF's in NBA history but a player like Yao is rare. He has a combination of size and skills that are unmatched into days game so if you get the opportunity to obtain a player like him then you must take it.


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## QRICH (Feb 2, 2004)

120 vs 16?! 

**Edited: Please don't try to bait other user, thanks.**


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## Azamad Bagatov (Jul 15, 2004)

What does "to bait somebody" mean ? I do not get it...


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## Tersk (Apr 9, 2004)

Umm like annoying someone really badly, ie if i said in one of your threads that Azamad Bagatov was a stupid name and your probably stupid aswell - thats baiting


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## QRICH (Feb 2, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Azamad Bagatov</b>!
> What does "to bait somebody" mean ? I do not get it...


Making fun of a certain poster


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## HeinzGuderian (Jun 29, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Azamad Bagatov</b>!
> What does "to bait somebody" mean ? I do not get it...


I take it as throwing something out there that you know will provoke a certain someone, that something would be the "bait". Then they bite, get pissed off and say something back, and it turns into a petty flame war. Happens alot here.


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## PHXSPORTS4LIFE (May 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Baron Davis</b>!
> Amare has good hops, has strength and agressiveness but he averages under 10 RPG.  He has no post moves and no jump shot, and just like others have said, all he does is dunk and yell.


see, i think posts like this are more maddening than bigamare's. obviously bigamare is fixated, but at least he knows what he's typing about.

"all he does is dunk and yell."???? for 20+ points a game? c'mon. ridiculous.


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## QRICH (Feb 2, 2004)

This has to be the biggest landslide in all of the BBB.net polls. I think NBA Gm's would agree. It would be very very hard to find a GM who'd rather have Amare over Yao...Imo, you wont find any GM who (in their right mind) would do that.


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## knickstorm (Jun 22, 2003)

potential amare's come all the time, this year it's al jefferson. Next year it'll be someone else, whose the next Yao? pavel??!?!? HAHAHHA


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## Bad Bartons (Aug 23, 2002)

*Yao*

I would take Yao by a wide margin.

He is big and fundamentally sound. Great team player too.

Amare is strong but no where near the impact player that Yao Ming is.


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## Baron Davis (Apr 14, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>PHXSPORTS4LIFE</b>!
> 
> 
> see, i think posts like this are more maddening than bigamare's. obviously bigamare is fixated, but at least he knows what he's typing about.
> ...


Dunk and yell, put backs, 2 feet hooks, etc.


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## PHXSPORTS4LIFE (May 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Baron Davis</b>!
> 
> 
> Dunk and yell, put backs, 2 feet hooks, etc.


well, i guess the suns will just have to be content with all that dunking and yelling. **Edited: Please don't bait other users**


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## PHXSPORTS4LIFE (May 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>PHXSPORTS4LIFE</b>!
> 
> 
> well, i guess the suns will just have to be content with all that dunking and yelling. **Edited: Please don't bait other users**


i don't understand why my response was considered baiting while the post i was responding to was not. especially when you consider that that post responded to a prior post of mine. was it the smiley face? is that all you need to include to avoid the "baiting" warning? i think all the baiting talk has gone too far. yeah, i think peeps on the board bait bigamare too much, but it's b/c they know they'll get a rise outta him. little jabs here and there aren't really baiting. or at least, they shouldn't be slammed. just MHO.


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## Pan Mengtu (Jun 18, 2004)

Any changed minds?


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## YoYoYoWasup (Nov 14, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Pan Mengtu</b>!
> Any changed minds?


Get back to me in say, 3 years.


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## The_Franchise (Mar 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Ming Bling</b>!
> Right now I can comfortably say Amare is the most overrated player in the league. No doubt in my mind he is already a top 5 PF in the game, but playing with Steve Nash in a fast and furious game gets him alot of easy baskets. He is the perfect fit for this Phoenix offense, a quick, aggressive PF who can clean up around the basket offensively. The fact that they have so many perimeter threats opens up the interior for Amare during the break and gives him plenty of space to work with.


What would Amare's averages be under a JVG offense? Tracy McGrady, a player who has averaged 30 ppg in his last 2 seasons, is averaging 22 ppg under JVG. (Why JVG is a bad fit for this team)

Here's another thread I made on Yao a week ago:

http://www.basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?threadid=128405&forumid=20

Traditionally centers have never been able to create from themselves when given the ball 15-20 ft away from the basket. Yao has shown he can do that at times but not consistently. Realistically he needs to be given the ball when he's close to the post and room to work with. Everytime he touches the ball in the 2nd half he gets doubled because there is no movement and no one is hitting their shots. Taylor and Howard may not be effective on the boards or defensively, but they aren't providing any offense either right now which makes the situation even worse. Keep in mind no player has ever averaged more than 20 ppg in a JVG system except for McGrady. 

But I will say... Amare is playing much better right now.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Amare recognized as one of the most overrated players in the league? Laughable. He's not in Houston, so that is moot. He's in Phoenix destroying. What he did to Okafor the other night was disgusting.


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## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

I'm having a difficult time understanding how a player can average 26.5 ppg on 57% shooting, 9.3 boards, and nearly 2 blocks a game..... and still be overrated.


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

Amare > Yao


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## snowmt (Jan 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Spriggan</b>!
> I'm having a difficult time understanding how a player can average 26.5 ppg on 57% shooting, 9.3 boards, and nearly 2 blocks a game..... and still be overrated.


Right now Amare plays much better than Yao, but he's still a bit
overrated on this board. His performance (27 pts 9 rbs) actually 
is only slightly better than last season after all-star break
(25 pts 10 rbs). Do you think a borderline top 5 player + Marion 
+ Joe Johnson + Barbosa would have a hard time to reach 0.5? 
Nash is more of a difference maker on this Suns team than Amare.


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

To reach 0.5 what?

He is playing 3 minutes less per game than he did after the allstar break last year and is shooting about 7-9% better.


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## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>snowmt</b>!
> 
> 
> Right now Amare plays much better than Yao, but he's still a bit
> ...


He wasn't shooting 57%. 



> Do you think a borderline top 5 player + Marion
> + Joe Johnson + Barbosa would have a hard time to reach 0.5?
> Nash is more of a difference maker on this Suns team than Amare.


When that "borderling top 5 player" is out for half the season and returns when his team has already dug itself a big hole, then sure.

And I don't see why Nash being more of the difference maker (I think it's both he and Amare equally, they need each other) makes Amare overrated. No one is saying the Suns are dominating solely because of Amare.


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## snowmt (Jan 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Spriggan</b>!
> 
> 
> He wasn't shooting 57%.
> ...



Guess you don't follow Amare until this season. He's my top 5
favorite player so I have followed him since his rookie season.
Fact is they had already dug a big hole before Amare got injured.
To make it even worse their schedule at the start of the last 
season was extremely soft.


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

I didn't know that 8-10 (something like that) qualifies as a big hole already.

The season was over as soon as Amare injured his ankle not before.


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## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>snowmt</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wasn't that big. I remember them being around .500. And Amare got injured quite early into the season.

And I've been following Amare for years. I sat almost alone on the "Amare for ROY" pedestal during pre-season that year, when everyone and their mother had Yao easily taking it.


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## The_Franchise (Mar 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Spriggan</b>!
> I'm having a difficult time understanding how a player can average 26.5 ppg on 57% shooting, 9.3 boards, and nearly 2 blocks a game..... and still be overrated.


Because those stats are inflated, and it does overrate him when you compare him to Yao who plays in a totally different system. A great finisher, but the pairing of Steve Nash and Phoenix's system inflates those stats.


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## The_Franchise (Mar 30, 2003)

Bump. Spriggan can hate on Yao all he wants but let's see him explain how Amare isn't overrated.


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## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Mr. Roger's Cardigan</b>!
> Bump. Spriggan can hate on Yao all he wants but let's see him explain how Amare isn't overrated.


Why is Amare overrated? Is he not allowed to have a bad stretch of games? Is it because it coincides with Nash's injury?

I never said Nash doesn't make him better. Nash makes everyone on the Suns better, and his absence is very noticeable. The Suns as a unit don't function nearly as well. But I don't see why that makes Amare overrated. Great point guards make players better. Nash makes Amare better, but he doesn't make him.


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## The_Franchise (Mar 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Spriggan</b>!
> Why is Amare overrated? Is he not allowed to have a bad stretch of games? Is it because it _coincides_ with Nash's injury?


Well, that is an optimistic way to look at it.



> I never said Nash doesn't make him better. Nash makes everyone on the Suns better, and his absence is very noticeable. The Suns as a unit don't function nearly as well. But I don't see why that makes Amare overrated. Great point guards make players better. Nash makes Amare better, but he doesn't make him.





> Originally posted by <b>Mr. Roger's Cardigan</b>!
> Because those stats are inflated, and it does overrate him when you compare him to Yao who plays in a totally different system. A great finisher, but the pairing of Steve Nash and Phoenix's system inflates those stats.


No one is saying Nash makes Amare. But for a while we had Marc Stein calling Amare the MVP and posters saying Stoudemire was the best PF in the league based on stats alone. These stats are inflated because of Nash and the system he plays in, that's all I'm trying to say here. The top 4 PF's in the league (KG, Duncan, Dirk, JO) are a tier above him right now.


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