# ESPN.com John Hollinger Rankings of Lakers



## Brian34Cook (Mar 26, 2003)

John Hollinger Rankings

PER takes into account all of a player's statistical contributions -- points, rebounds, assists, steals, blocks, missed shots, turnovers and fouls -- and rolls them up into a score for every player in the league.

Lakers Ratings:

Kwame Brown
2004-05 pretty much cemented Brown's status as one of the colossal busts in NBA draft history.

Kobe Bryant
Bryant is a new and interesting phenomenon in the world of sports -- the athlete who tries to do and say everything right publicly, but comes across as an insincere phony as a result.

Andrew Bynum
If I had to bet on one player from the 2005 draft being a bust, it would be this guy. I say this without having seen him play. Simply put, the numbers are stacked against him.

Brian Cook
Cook's PER makes it seem like he didn't improve, but he completely revamped his game in the offseason. To everyone's amazement, Cook started drilling 3-pointers in preseason and never stopped.

Devean George
George missed most of the season after having ankle surgery in July 2004, but he could play a big part in the Lakers' plans this season.

Jumaine Jones
Jones does two things. He shoots high-arcing 3-pointers from the corner and he crashes the boards. 

Aaron McKie
McKie has been a valuable contributor for the Sixers for a long time, but he might be at the end of the line. He was arguably the worst offensive player in basketball in 2004-05.

Stanislav Medvedenko
Medvedenko came to the league with a lot of offensive potential, but he's never expanded his game beyond a fondness for taking 17-footers.

Chris Mihm
It took a while but Mihm has turned himself into a respectable center at both ends of the floor.

Lamar Odom
Odom didn't have the ball in his hands as much as he did in Miami. The cause is obvious -- with Kobe Bryant hogging the ball so much, Odom's touches almost had to go down.

Laron Profit
Apparently worried that they didn't have enough undersized players from Maryland on the team, the Wizards added Profit to the roster in training camp and he hung on as an end-of-the-bench type all season.

Ronny Turiaf
Turiaf has the requisite size and strength for the pros, but he isn't much of an athlete and struggles to finish shots around the basket. He plays with a lot of energy, however, which makes him decent.

Sasha Vujacic
The Lakers' first-round pick in 2004, Vujacic has a lot of work to do to establish a regular spot in the rotation. His 28.2 percent shooting speaks for itself.

Von Wafer
A second-round draft choice, Wafer has a good outside shot and the size and athleticism to be a decent pro shooting guard. 

Luke Walton
Walton is an absolutely fantastic passer, but he's having trouble establishing a role because it's his only marketable skill. 

:rofl: Pretty good stuff there.. Funny how Cook ranks ahead of Kwame.. Anyways Cook is the 42nd best PF in the NBA according to this.. Just found this stuff weird :laugh:


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## Harry_Minge (Oct 4, 2005)

Not too keen on hollingers rankings they are very misleading

looking at the team overall,the lakers really suck this year,they look like they will be lottery for sure,
take away kobe and odom and the rest are garbage


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## Brian34Cook (Mar 26, 2003)

That's what I expect.. And seriously.. They are garbage.. Too high of expectations in LaLa land.. Afterall that's what living in a fantasy world is like.. Hoping this pathetic roster wins a title in a rebuilding process.. Eh..


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

> If I had to bet on one player from the 2005 draft being a bust, it would be this guy. I say this without having seen him play. Simply put, the numbers are stacked against him.


What a dolt.


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## onelakerfan (Nov 11, 2004)

Brian34Cook why don’t you just. never mind, you are the person who was missing for a week because of our negative attitude, and at this point you are, well last 5 months you have been negative, is it a reverse psychology or you are becoming a laker hater.

love the team even if they suck.

just a FYI, we are not going to suck this year.

and ^&%$&^% all the people who are fans with negative attitude toward MY TEAM.

EDIT: B43C is the wrong poster to get into it with. Take your issues to PM. Thanks.


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## ralaw (Feb 24, 2005)

I hate when writers write with a bias, it is obvious this guy doesn't like Kobe Bryant or the Lakers.


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## Mrdectown (May 28, 2005)

EHL said:


> What a dolt.


Dude who is that sexy a$$ chick in your avatar? :biggrin:


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## The One (Jul 10, 2005)

John Hollinger said:


> Kwame Brown
> 2004-05 pretty much cemented Brown's status as one of the colossal busts in NBA draft history.


Still to early to lable him an complete bust



John Hollinger said:


> Kobe Bryant
> Bryant is a new and interesting phenomenon in the world of sports -- the athlete who tries to do and say everything right publicly, but comes across as an insincere phony as a result.


How did he prove to be a phony? And becides, what does that have to do with basketball? Bryant scored 24 points in one half in a preseason game! (nuff said)



John Hollinger said:


> Andrew Bynum
> If I had to bet on one player from the 2005 draft being a bust, it would be this guy. I say this without having seen him play. Simply put, the numbers are stacked against him.


Very bias.





John Hollinger said:


> Aaron McKie
> McKie has been a valuable contributor for the Sixers for a long time, but he might be at the end of the line. He was arguably the worst offensive player in basketball in 2004-05.


the dude was injured.



John Hollinger said:


> Stanislav Medvedenko
> Medvedenko came to the league with a lot of offensive potential, but he's never expanded his game beyond a fondness for taking 17-footers.


Here I can say that you understated. Slava SUCKS.



John Hollinger said:


> Lamar Odom
> Odom didn't have the ball in his hands as much as he did in Miami. The cause is obvious -- with Kobe Bryant hogging the ball so much, Odom's touches almost had to go down.


True...last year. This year he will be the main ball handler.



John Hollinger said:


> Luke Walton
> Walton is an absolutely fantastic passer, but he's having trouble establishing a role because it's his only marketable skill.


I hate to admit it but he's right.


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## madskillz1_99 (Dec 5, 2004)

Brian34Cook said:


> That's what I expect.. And seriously.. They are garbage.. Too high of expectations in LaLa land.. Afterall that's what living in a fantasy world is like.. Hoping this pathetic roster wins a title in a rebuilding process.. Eh..


Dude, you really need to chill with the negative attitude all the time. have a little faith, just a little bit.


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## clien (Jun 2, 2005)

most of his comments about individual players have nothing to do w/ bball and how good or bad they will be this season- its just stupid opinions most of the time


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## Tyrellaphonte (Feb 21, 2004)

what a ****in *******


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## Bartholomew Hunt (Mar 4, 2003)

BCook is not being a hater or down on the team, he is just being realistic. I'm right there with him. The ridiculous expectations is going to really hurt the Lakers if we do not make the playoffs, which is very likely. When he starts bashing the players and Phil when they fail, I will be upset.


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

Bartholomew Hunt said:


> BCook is not being a hater or down on the team, he is just being realistic. I'm right there with him. The ridiculous expectations is going to really hurt the Lakers if we do not make the playoffs


Exactly what "ridiculous expectations" are you talking about? Is there any laker poster who thinks that this year's Lakers are gonna make a playoff run?


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## ceejaynj (Oct 9, 2005)

Let me start by saying that, I may be be a rookie on this board, but I have been a Laker/sports fan longer than many of you have been alive (34th season)...but I would not go as far in the 'negative direction' as Brian34Cook has. Not that he is wrong or unrealistic...but I do not detect a sense of "hope" from him. Nor do I agree with him calling this year's team "garbage". Compared to the Showtime or Shaq-Kobe teams, this team doesn't come close...but "garbage" they are not.

Look...with PJ back and a revamped roster...there is nothing wrong with entering the season with curiousity, hope and a few realistic expectations. Maybe some are confusing the word "expectations" with the word "hope". Let's face it...many of our opinions are based on reading the opinions of sports writers...like John Hollinger...since none of us are real "insiders". 

You never know what could happen to change things in our favor...a key injury to a competitor (Amare?), a Lakers trade etc. Look at Lakers history...Jerry West's first year as coach (1976-77)...a rookie coach and no expections, but we made it to the WCF, losing to Portland. Even PJ said during his first tour of duty that he did not expect to win a title right away...and look what happened! Remember the 1980 finals...Magic subbing for Kareem? The media said that game was a freebie for the Sixers. You know the rest. Sure, that was only one game...but it goes to show you that you never really know what could happen. 

If you are a die-hard Lakers fan, or any sports team for that matter, you stick with your team through the good and bad years...and every season is approached with a degree of excitement and the "hope" of winning it all.

Okay...no more lecturing...going to have lunch!!!


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## Blink4 (Jan 17, 2005)

ceejaynj said:


> Let me start by saying that, I may be be a rookie on this board, but I have been a Laker/sports fan longer than many of you have been alive (34th season)...but I would not go as far in the 'negative direction' as Brian34Cook has. Not that he is wrong or unrealistic...but I do not detect a sense of "hope" from him. Nor do I agree with him calling this year's team "garbage". Compared to the Showtime or Shaq-Kobe teams, this team doesn't come close...but "garbage" they are not.
> 
> Look...with PJ back and a revamped roster...there is nothing wrong with entering the season with curiousity, hope and a few realistic expectations. Maybe some are confusing the word "expectations" with the word "hope". Let's face it...many of our opinions are based on reading the opinions of sports writers...like John Hollinger...since none of us are real "insiders".
> 
> ...


good points, but i wouldnt say that bcook isnt sticking with our team. hell, he makes game threads for the preseason games, which take some time and effort. just because he doesnt have unrealistic expectations dont mean that he isnt a lakers fan. payce


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## madskillz1_99 (Dec 5, 2004)

Bartholomew Hunt said:


> BCook is not being a hater or down on the team, he is just being realistic. I'm right there with him. The ridiculous expectations is going to really hurt the Lakers if we do not make the playoffs, which is very likely. When he starts bashing the players and Phil when they fail, I will be upset.


So, simply making the playoffs is a "ridiculous expectation"? Someone better tell that to Phil and Kobe.


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## ceejaynj (Oct 9, 2005)

Blink4 said:


> good points, but i wouldnt say that bcook isnt sticking with our team. hell, he makes game threads for the preseason games, which take some time and effort. just because he doesnt have unrealistic expectations dont mean that he isnt a lakers fan. payce


I didn't say that Brian34Cook wasn't a Lakers fan. Heck, if he is a moderator here he better be...or he would be run out of town! The fact that he IS a Lakers fan is a given. I just said that, IMO, he is being much too negative.


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## thekid (Apr 3, 2003)

Insane. These analysis are to be pretty objective, not full of blind hate.


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## onelakerfan (Nov 11, 2004)

onelakerfan said:


> Brian34Cook why don’t you just. never mind, you are the person who was missing for a week because of our negative attitude, and at this point you are, well last 5 months you have been negative, is it a reverse psychology or you are becoming a laker hater.
> 
> love the team even if they suck.
> 
> ...


EHL. 
I just saw that I got edited by you, just wondering why? I was not in any means attacking B34C, I was just attacking his recent Laker hating tactics. Does this mean I can't voice my opinion toward MODS?
I was just clearly mentioning what happened in the past when B34C attacked every single Laker fan with negative attitude, and rightfully so (can’t find the thread). We all know the we are not going to win a ring this year, (well we might), and we all know the every single non laker fan out there by default hates the Lakers, we don't need someone who is a MOD and clearly a huge laker fan to be so negative, every chance he gets.
That is all


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## onelakerfan (Nov 11, 2004)

o sorry, what is a PM and I definitely don't want to argue with B34C. It takes me 20 minues to put one picture in this site, i know it is hard as hell to create those game threads.

I thank him for that


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## Bartholomew Hunt (Mar 4, 2003)

madskillz1_99 said:


> So, simply making the playoffs is a "ridiculous expectation"? Someone better tell that to Phil and Kobe.


 Saying we are a LOCK for the playoffs is ridiculous. Phil and Kobe are going to get absolute hell from the media if we miss the playoffs. With the current roster, they would not deserve it! Insert expectations as the cause of that. You understand?


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## Unique (Apr 13, 2005)

onelakerfan said:


> EHL.
> I just saw that I got edited by you, just wondering why? I was not in any means attacking B34C, I was just attacking his recent Laker hating tactics. Does this mean I can't voice my opinion toward MODS?
> I was just clearly mentioning what happened in the past when B34C attacked every single Laker fan with negative attitude, and rightfully so (can’t find the thread). We all know the we are not going to win a ring this year, (well we might), and we all know the every single non laker fan out there by default hates the Lakers, we don't need someone who is a MOD and clearly a huge laker fan to be so negative, every chance he gets.
> That is all





> o sorry, what is a PM and I definitely don't want to argue with B34C. It takes me 20 minues to put one picture in this site, i know it is hard as hell to create those game threads.


1st of all ..No seriously B34C as well as EHL are really not the people you want to argue with, PM is private messages up in the left corner you will see the pull down menu "Quick Links" and theres PM what EHL ment was if you have a problem with some 1 instead of taking it public just PM them and handle it like men.


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## Brian34Cook (Mar 26, 2003)

Just drop it.. I'm not gonna post on the Lakers forum anymore. Sorry for sharing my negative thoughts on the team. See ya around.


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## Unique (Apr 13, 2005)

Brian34Cook said:


> Just drop it.. I'm not gonna post on the Lakers forum anymore. Sorry for sharing my negative thoughts on the team. See ya around.



I really don't think thats neccassary man your a part of this forum and we want it to stay like that , Please re-consider.


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## Cris (Jun 18, 2003)

fantastic...


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## madskillz1_99 (Dec 5, 2004)

Brian34Cook said:


> Just drop it.. I'm not gonna post on the Lakers forum anymore. Sorry for sharing my negative thoughts on the team. See ya around.


You're taking your ball and going home?  A little dramatic no?


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## onelakerfan (Nov 11, 2004)

Lakermike05 said:


> 1st of all ..No seriously B34C as well as EHL are really not the people you want to argue with, PM is private messages up in the left corner you will see the pull down menu "Quick Links" and theres PM what EHL ment was if you have a problem with some 1 instead of taking it public just PM them and handle it like men.


1st of all I am not trying to argue with anyone, second of all B34C, you better not leave this form because of this, we need you man, third of all, I was just voicing my opinion after noticing a trend of negativity. Fourth of all, thanks for the PM info.
Fifth of all, I started this, and i wish i was a MOD could close this.
Gentleman, I will not continue talking about this

And sixth of all Tony Mejia from CBS could kiss my Laker Loving A$$
http://www.sportsline.com/nba/story/8911045


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

Normally I tell posters to take their moderating questions to PM, but I want the board to see this one publicly. 



onelakerfan said:


> EHL.
> I just saw that I got edited by you, just wondering why?


I didn't edit your post, I added the red bolded part. Your post is in tact. 



> I was not in any means attacking B34C, I was just attacking his recent Laker hating tactics. Does this mean I can't voice my opinion toward MODS?
> I was just clearly mentioning what happened in the past when B34C attacked every single Laker fan with negative attitude, and rightfully so (can’t find the thread). We all know the we are not going to win a ring this year, (well we might), and we all know the every single non laker fan out there by default hates the Lakers, we don't need someone who is a MOD and clearly a huge laker fan to be so negative, every chance he gets.
> That is all


OK, I understand what you're saying. We'll just leave it at that.


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

And B34C isn't going anyone. He's just being a punk right now.


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## onelakerfan (Nov 11, 2004)

EHL said:


> And B34C isn't going anyone. He's just being a punk right now.


 :cheers: B34C we could always drink and think about the good old days, in the laker land

:cheers: cheers dude, 

don't leave. it is all good times


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## ceejaynj (Oct 9, 2005)

Brian34Cook said:


> Just drop it.. I'm not gonna post on the Lakers forum anymore. Sorry for sharing my negative thoughts on the team. See ya around.


Come on man...that's unnecessary...you know each of our opinions are open to the same scrutiny as yours...sleep on it...


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## BBB (Jan 19, 2005)

Brian34Cook said:


> Just drop it.. I'm not gonna post on the Lakers forum anymore. Sorry for sharing my negative thoughts on the team. See ya around.


Good for you.


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## Pnack (Aug 23, 2005)

Brian34Cook said:


> Just drop it.. I'm not gonna post on the Lakers forum anymore. Sorry for sharing my negative thoughts on the team. See ya around.


 :naughty: ur not goin ne where :sigh:


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## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

onelakerfan said:


> Brian34Cook why don’t you just. never mind, you are the person who was missing for a week because of our negative attitude, and at this point you are, well last 5 months you have been negative, is it a reverse psychology or you are becoming a laker hater.
> 
> love the team even if they suck.
> 
> ...


Sometimes the truth hurts. I'm positive that this season will be better than last. But not by much. B Cook knows what he is talking about. Our roster is like a pile of crap.. You might be able to pour perfume all over it, but that doesn't change the fact that it still stinks. 

The season really comes down to three players working extremely well together to make the playoffs. Obviously, this is has been said before. Kobe needs to be Kobe, but with a better shooting percentage and no injury. Odom needs to play like we all think he can, and Brown needs to actually show people that he really isn't a bust.

I think two of those three are very possible, but one of them hasn't shown me in three years anything, and this year until I see otherwise I'd agree our team is crap. 

That being said, it’s a rebuilding year for a reason. It was bound to happen eventually.


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## Unique (Apr 13, 2005)

2 years ago if sum1 told me lakers will be the underdog next year and not make the playoffs i probably laugh.....but now i cry.


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## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

Blink4 said:


> good points, but i wouldnt say that bcook isnt sticking with our team. hell, he makes game threads for the preseason games, which take some time and effort. just because he doesnt have unrealistic expectations dont mean that he isnt a lakers fan. payce



What is so wrong with being honest? I hate that people have to lie to themselves when they know in there hearts there team either sucks, or has no chance at winning a title. Not to mention if you expect the worst, and get more than you thought it ends up being more satisfying in the end. 

I have a feeling B Cook would LOVE to have the Lakers prove him wrong. But in reality we all know that Cooks posts are accurate, and the Lakers really aren't going to do much this season. Although lately with Amare going down, kings looking a little worse, and Sonics being changed, we might have a chance at the playoffs because the competition in same ways has gone done a little.

In reality, it's still a crap shoot, and we have more odds stacked against us than for us.


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## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

madskillz1_99 said:


> So, simply making the playoffs is a "ridiculous expectation"? Someone better tell that to Phil and Kobe.


For a team that didnt even get 35 wins last season, and who has changed most of it's players to those with potiential, not proven talent. It might just be ridiculous. We will have to wait and find out and see just how fast the Lakers can take to the triangle.. And if Odom and Brown can prove the doubters wrong. I think it could go either way.


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## Bartholomew Hunt (Mar 4, 2003)

Nice to have another word of reason


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## The One (Jul 10, 2005)

CDRacingZX6R said:



> *For a team that didnt even get 35 wins last season*, and who has changed most of it's players to those with potiential, not proven talent. It might just be ridiculous. We will have to wait and find out and see just how fast the Lakers can take to the triangle.. And if Odom and Brown can prove the doubters wrong. I think it could go either way.


Please don't start that 34 wins crap. We had a coach change and three of our starters injured. That *will* ruin a team effectiveness. The rest you are right, we just have to wait and see if the triangle can work with these guys which I think is a small chance(not too small) of working.


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## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

The One said:


> Please don't start that 34 wins crap. We had a coach change and three of our starters injured. That *will* ruin a team effectiveness. The rest you are right, we just have to wait and see if the triangle can work with these guys which I think is a small chance(not too small) of working.


So what? Yeah it's true we go burned last season. But in reality the way the Lakers were not playing defense in the first half of the season was going to raped in the second half no matter who the coach was. We had a softer first half, a LOT softer of a first half. The second half was going to be extremely tough because as noted Rudy didn't instruct the players on defense at all in the off-season. 

When Rudy bailed, everyone knew this season was shot to hell anyways so instead of trying to continue doing what Rudy's offense was, they switched it to the triangle, something the Lakers hoped Frank could get them proficient enough in incase Phil happened to return the following season. 

We were in the 6th seed, falling before Rudy left and the schedule we had couldn't have been anymore plush, the hard second half was going to destroy us regardless. Having Rudy would have been good for maybe 37 wins, but we were not a playoff team last season. We might have been able to shoot the ball but when teams are averaging over 100 points on us, it really was futile.


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## Pnack (Aug 23, 2005)

yea welll i think its obvious the lakers arent gonna win 60 games or anything like that...id be happy with anything over .500


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## madskillz1_99 (Dec 5, 2004)

So BCook is gone for real? That's a bit of a ***** move, just saying.....


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## Shaolin (Aug 6, 2004)

....actually, *yeah the team is at this point garbage. * Sorry. I'm optimistic and hoping that they play defense, hoping to be surprised, hoping someone emerges. But at this point in time, Aside from Kobe, we've got a bunch of unknowns and "potential". 


Either way, the Laker Faithful will thrill and/or suffer together.


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