# Honest thoughts about Tyrus Thomas.



## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

Anyone have any ideas on what to do with this kid? I mean honestly I think Mike North said it best when saying that Tyrus Thomas might just be the first Retarted player in basketball. I know that hes young and that people should be patient with him, but aren't we trying to win now? How could the bulls have drafted someone who has no clue on what to do when hes on the court? All Tyrus does is run all over the place and either shoot like hes aiming for the shot clock or foul somebody. Was Pax not watching this kid work out over the summer? 

I guess, my real question is why hasnt this second overall draft pick looked anything like a proffesional basketball player? He should be atleast better then half of the other draftpicks but hes not, heck hes not even a Renaldo Balkman.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

He should be down in the D league getting lots and lots of minutes.

He's not a "win now" draft pick, and the Bulls are supposedly a “win the title now” team so we really don’t have any development minutes to give him.

It is frustrating to see Balkman be the type of energy player I hoped Tyrus would be out of the gate.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

So far, I've been impressed with Tyrus' defense and energy. As I mentioned in another thread, he was especially impressive against the Lakers. He has a rare ability to gather both blocks and steals in short spurts of playing time. 

The problem was that we couldn't score with him on the floor. He's good for follow-ups and put-backs (which he does very well), but in a set offense he's pretty worthless right now. 

That's not to say he won't improve, but he's not there yet. The encouraging thing is that he obviously has the skills to expand on. He looks pretty comfortable with his ballhandling and has a soft release on his jumper. The main problem, from what I've seen, is confidence. He looks terrified of making a mistake out there. I wouldn't count on him for much this season. Still, the sky's the limit and I hope we don't lose sight of that.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

kukoc4ever said:


> He should be down in the D league getting lots and lots of minutes.
> 
> He's not a "win now" draft pick, and the Bulls are supposedly a “win the title now” team so we really don’t have any development minutes to give him.
> 
> It is frustrating to see Balkman be the type of energy player I hoped Tyrus would be out of the game.


Other than a few perimeter players like Morrison and Roy, neither of which we really needed, there weren't any "win now" players available with the #2 pick.

Many of us wanted Bargnani, and it turns out that he's fairly NBA-ready afterall. But he wasn't an option with our pick unfortunately. Aldridge hasn't done much either, from what I've seen, and he's got a much lower ceiling IMO.


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## TripleDouble (Jul 26, 2002)

thebizkit69u said:


> I mean honestly I think Mike North said it best when saying that Tyrus Thomas might just be the first Retarted player in basketball.


If North said that, he should be fired.

It's unbelievable how impatient people are.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

kukoc4ever said:


> He should be down in the D league getting lots and lots of minutes.
> 
> He's not a "win now" draft pick, and the Bulls are supposedly a “win the title now” team so we really don’t have any development minutes to give him.
> 
> It is frustrating to see Balkman be the type of energy player I hoped Tyrus would be out of the game.


The drafting of Tyrus Thomas is the NBA equivilent of when a college football team recruits a strict "Athlete", there is no set position, no idea of what he will bring to the team but his athletic ability is just to impressive to not have on your team.


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## TripleDouble (Jul 26, 2002)

kukoc4ever said:


> He should be down in the D league getting lots and lots of minutes.
> 
> He's not a "win now" draft pick, and the Bulls are supposedly a “win the title now” team so we really don’t have any development minutes to give him.
> 
> It is frustrating to see Balkman be the type of energy player I hoped Tyrus would be out of the game.


Haven't you killed Paxson for not swinging for the fences with draft picks? That's what he did this time. 

And it is still possible that Thomas will be a contributer by seasons end. He just needs to get under control and be an energy player for now.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

TripleDouble said:


> If North said that, he should be fired.
> 
> It's unbelievable how impatient people are.


There are rookie mistakes and then there are just dumb WTF is he doing that mistakes, and right now Tyrus Thomas is doing the later.


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

kukoc4ever said:


> He should be down in the D league getting lots and lots of minutes.
> 
> He's not a "win now" draft pick, and the Bulls are supposedly a “win the title now” team so we really don’t have any development minutes to give him.
> 
> It is frustrating to see Balkman be the type of energy player I hoped Tyrus would be out of the game.


I totally agree with sending Thomas to the D-League. Let him settle down, get his confidence, get a lather going, then bring him back in a month and see the difference.

I don't see any stigma or reason for TT to resent such a decision. He can't look any worse than he does now.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

TripleDouble said:


> Haven't you killed Paxson for not swinging for the fences with draft picks? That's what he did this time.
> 
> And it is still possible that Thomas will be a contributer by seasons end. He just needs to get under control and be an energy player for now.


Wouldn't drafting Morrison the NCAA leading scorer have been swinging for the fences?


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

ScottMay said:


> I don't see any stigma or reason for TT to resent such a decision. He can't look any worse than he does now.


You got to be real carefull with this kid, I believe that this is the same kid who had big time trust issues in college and did not want to work out against other top bigmen this summer because he was afraid of his stock dropping. Also, this is the same kid who would get angry with any reporter or scout who had questions about his game. Those questions still remain un answered.


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## McBulls (Apr 28, 2005)

I like the fact that Skiles is making TT earn his minutes. He could learn from watching the veterans who play in front of him right now. He needs to concentrate on his assignments for the time being instead of trying to make highlight plays. Block out, get rebounds, stay in front of your man, provide help in a timely manner, pass the ball to the open man, shoot it only if open -- he ain't Ben Gordon on offense or Ben Wallace on defense, so he doesn't have a licence to free-lance this year. 

All-in-all, he needs to worry more about where his feet should be and less about how high he needs to jump. I have no idea how long it will take for him to learn to play in the NBA, but Skiles is a good teacher and he has great veteran role models like Griffen, PJ and Ben Wallace to get advice from. Hopefully the Bulls will have a few blowouts in the next few months that will provide him with more playing time.


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## TripleDouble (Jul 26, 2002)

thebizkit69u said:


> Wouldn't drafting Morrison the NCAA leading scorer have been swinging for the fences?


There have been plenty of high scorers in college who have done nothing in the pros. Lets not act as though Morrison has been tearing it up yet either.


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

Smh


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## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

thebizkit69u said:


> I mean honestly I think Mike North said it best when saying that Tyrus Thomas might just be the first Retarted player in basketball.


First of all, Mike North has never said anything "best" in his entire life. Least of all this. 

I wonder if you and Northy thought Tyrus looked "retarded" in the Final Four, crushing it in summer league, and being the Bulls' statistical standout of the pre-season?

Plus, he looked very strong in his debut in Miami, only to have his nose busted and his season shaken as a result. Missed games, masks, and all. Now he's working his way back in.

Tyrus Thomas is legit. He's just completely out of control right now. I doubt he will be contributing much, if anything all, until after the allstar break.

Until then, Skiles is doing exactly what he should do with the rook. Throw him out there from time to time and see if he can hang. If he can't, hook him. What we need is a few good old fashioned 25 point 4th quarter leads to give this kid some run.

I like the NBDL idea too, for what its worth.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

TripleDouble said:


> There have been plenty of high scorers in college who have done nothing in the pros. Lets not act as though Morrison has been tearing it up yet either.


Iam not saying saying that Morrison is tearing it up, but compared to Tyrus Thomas Adam Morrison is "tearing it up".


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## JonH818 (Aug 31, 2006)

TripleDouble said:


> There have been plenty of high scorers in college who have done nothing in the pros. Lets not act as though Morrison has been tearing it up yet either.


Are you kidding? Since Morrison has became a starter, he has been tearing it up. They said that he's the top candidate for rookie of the year. He has been the leading scorer for Charlotte the last 4 of 5 games.

Although, Tyrus thomas had the most "potential", I think he was a bad choice for us. Even Aldridge looks more solid. Our rookies look absolutely lost when we throw them in the mix. 

Bargnani is looking great, Aldridge is solid, Balkman is a beast, Roy is a pure scorer, Rudy Gay is amazing too. What the hell is going on with our rookies?


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

Ron Cey said:


> I wonder of you and Northy thought Tyrus looked "retarded" in the Final Four, crushing it in summer league, and being the Bulls' statistical standout of the pre-season?
> 
> Plus, he looked very strong in his debut in Miami, only to have his nose busted and his season shaken as a result. Missed games, masks, and all. Now he's working his way back in.
> 
> ...


Common everybody was "Crushing it" in the summer league, my dead Grandmother was Crushing It in the summer league. 

Tyrus has looked like an impressive athlete, but far from an impressive NBA player. Thomas is not getting the big minutes because frankly hes just brutal out there right now, the fact that he cant play in front of Malik Allen, PJ Brown and now Adrian "Bird" Griffin said alot about how much work Tyrus needs.


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## BULLHITTER (Dec 6, 2005)

> i think Mike North said it best when saying that Tyrus Thomas might just be the first Retarted player in basketball


. 

mike north is a disgrace to anybody who's ever been labeled a 'talent' in radio. he comes off as a huge retard in most of the things he refers to regarding sports and his audience are all inbred hicks who'll agree with his non-sensical rants cause they thinks he's funny. he says things for shock value, regardless of its accuracy or not. his calling was hot dog salesman, and some genius in radio thinks he's witty; i don't listen to him and anyone that does should stop watching basketball or any sports for that matter.

north is a tool, and not even a useable one at that.....

thomas will be fine, as will the bull, fans need to go make so 'instant' cocoa, 'instant' basketball doesn't work that way.....


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

JonH818 said:


> Are you kidding? Since Morrison has became a starter, he has been tearing it up. They said that he's the top candidate for rookie of the year. He has been the leading scorer for Charlotte the last 4 of 5 games.
> 
> Although, Tyrus thomas had the most "potential", I think he was a bad choice for us. Even Aldridge looks more solid. Our rookies look absolutely lost when we throw them in the mix.
> 
> Bargnani is looking great, Aldridge is solid, Balkman is a beast, Roy is a pure scorer, Rudy Gay is amazing too. What the hell is going on with our rookies?


Heres the thing, I think Gay would be alot better with the Bulls and Thomas would be much better off with the Grizz. Gay plays the Bulls style of B-Ball, hes much more athletic then Tyrus and plays all around solid defense. I think Thomas would learn alot more by playing with a similar player like Warrick who seems to have gotten a hang of how to play in the NBA.


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## TripleDouble (Jul 26, 2002)

JonH818 said:


> Are you kidding? Since Morrison has became a starter, he has been tearing it up. They said that he's the top candidate for rookie of the year. He has been the leading scorer for Charlotte the last 4 of 5 games.


Charlotte is 4-10 and Morrison is averaging 16 points on 15 shots. Hardly great. He's been exactly what people expected, a low efficiency one-dimensional scorer.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

thebizkit69u said:


> Iam not saying saying that Morrison is tearing it up, but compared to Tyrus Thomas Adam Morrison is "tearing it up".


Adam is averaging 16/3/2.1, which includes three games in which he struggled, and ended up with only single digit scoring, including a career low 2 point game. At this stage in the season, a 2 point game will really bring down an average significantly. But that is only 3 games in his career to date he has failed to score double digits.

His last 2 games he's put up 22/4/5 and 27/3/5.

In his short career, he's already scored 27 twice, 26 once and 21 twice.

I think he's doing just fine for a rook, and I think it likely some more shooting consistency will come with a little experience. For 14 games into his NBA career, I don't think anyone can complain about what he's brought to the table already. Certainly more than our draft picks have been able to muster.


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

JonH818 said:


> Are you kidding? Since Morrison has became a starter, he has been tearing it up. They said that he's the top candidate for rookie of the year. He has been the leading scorer for Charlotte the last 4 of 5 games.
> 
> Although, Tyrus thomas had the most "potential", I think he was a bad choice for us. Even Aldridge looks more solid. Our rookies look absolutely lost when we throw them in the mix.
> 
> Bargnani is looking great, Aldridge is solid, Balkman is a beast, Roy is a pure scorer, Rudy Gay is amazing too. What the hell is going on with our rookies?


Since when is 8.3PPG on 34.9% FG shooting amazing? Balkman a beast at 3.2 PPG? I digress.

I'm perfectly fine with the Thomas pick. I think he's 10-15 pounds from being a relevant NBA player and we might have to wait until the offseason to see that come to fruition (that or have Ben Wallace be his in-season training partner). But he has shown flashes.


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## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

thebizkit69u said:


> Thomas is not getting the big minutes because frankly hes just brutal out there right now


Did it appear to you as though I was disputing that?


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## JonH818 (Aug 31, 2006)

TripleDouble said:


> Charlotte is 4-10 and Morrison is averaging 16 points on 15 shots. Hardly great. He's been exactly what people expected, a low efficiency one-dimensional scorer.



????? and Tyrus and Thabo are averaging what?


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## JonH818 (Aug 31, 2006)

superdave said:


> Since when is 8.3PPG on 34.9% FG shooting amazing? Balkman a beast at 3.2 PPG? I digress.
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> ...


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## TripleDouble (Jul 26, 2002)

JonH818 said:


> ????? and Tyrus and Thabo are averaging what?


Did you really expect either to be as polished as Morrison?


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

TripleDouble said:


> Did you really expect either to be as polished as Morrison?


Thabo was a pro in Europe he should be somewhat polished. As for Thomas I dont care about the whole potential thing but if your going to draft someone number 2 overrall he should be better then half the other guys we passed up on.


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## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

I think Balkman looks like a fine player. 

What does that have to do with Tyrus Thomas? Tyrus came out as a red-shirt freshman. Balkman came out as a junior. 

And Balkman started getting his run, and confidence, due to a starter's injury. Thomas, on the other hand, is deep on the depth chart and will be all season barring injury. 

The situations aren't comparable. Thomas is going to take awhile.


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## JonH818 (Aug 31, 2006)

TripleDouble said:


> Did you really expect either to be as polished as Morrison?


Not at all but Tyrus was a higher draft pick and is doing nothing for our team. All I am saying is that our rookies don't do anything for us but turn the ball over and look lost. 

I really do like Tyrus and Thabo but if we are not going to give them any playing time, they will never be affective for us.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

Ron Cey said:


> I think Balkman looks like a fine player.
> 
> What does that have to do with Tyrus Thomas? Tyrus came out as a red-shirt freshman. Balkman came out as a junior.
> 
> ...


The situations arent coparable because Balkman was a better value at his draft position then Thomas. Oh and hes also a better player plain and simple.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

TripleDouble said:


> Haven't you killed Paxson for not swinging for the fences with draft picks? That's what he did this time.
> 
> And it is still possible that Thomas will be a contributer by seasons end. He just needs to get under control and be an energy player for now.


I like the TT draft pick. I was hoping for TT or Gay.

I've said several times that I think the only way the Bulls make a serious title run this season is if TT can give us 25 minutes of NBA difference making play at the 4 by the end of the season.

-----

As for comparing numbers, I would expect Morrison, Aldridge, Roy and Bargnani to all have better season numbers than TT this year. They are all on rotten teams who can play them and play them and play them to see what they have and develop them.

The Bulls are supposed to be an elite team in the Eastern Conference, a true contender, so we really can't afford to sacrifice minutes for development. That's why the NBDL could be a very good idea.


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

JonH818 said:


> I really do like Tyrus and Thabo but if we are not going to give them any playing time, they will never be affective for us.


I like them too, but there's one thing I wanted to bring up somewhere, but I don't feel it warrants its own thread.

I had the misfortune of getting to MSG a little early on Saturday night and I got to watch Thabo shoot pregame jumpers. Holy crap is his jump shot all kinds of funky. That wouldn't be so bad in and of itself, but it's not Jim Furyk/Tayshaun Prince/Shawn Marion funky, which is to say funky the same way each and every time. He is all over the map.

I used to believe that you couldn't learn how to shoot after you'd gotten to the NBA. I don't believe that anymore -- the Michael Redds, Rafer Alstons, Elton Brands, and so forth have shattered that theory. But it's a tough row to hoe, and I think Thabo's got a real struggle ahead of him.


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## JeremyB0001 (Nov 17, 2003)

He's played 85 minutes. You just can't use his success in such few minutes to evaluate him at this point: 1) That's less than three games if you're playing starters minutes which isn't large enough of a sample size to evaluate a player - if Lebron came out and laid an egg in his first three games no one would say he is terrible 2) rookies tend to develop in a rapid, non-linear fashion - I seem to recall Brand struggling a lot initially before winning ROY and Deron Williams looks to have taken a huge jump all of a sudden.

All you can take out of such few minutes is scouting observations and even those can't be taken too seriously with such a small sample size. Personally, I've seen a game-changing ability to defend, block shots, and rebound as well as tendency to force things on offense. For a supposedly raw 19 year old, I'm pleased. 

I also don't think TT's lack of minutes can be considered an indictment of his ability to contribute immediately. The Bulls have great depth and as K4E mentioned, are in win now mode. By comparison most team's with lottery players are in full scale developmental mode. The fact that Skiles has still found TT minutes as a 19 year old speaks highly of his current ability and maturity. 

While I personally find it disappointing, Skiles appears to be tightening the rotation right now and favoring veterans meaning that TT will not receive much playing time. Sending him to D league for a while to get minutes could be an option. However, I think Tyrus' play is a little too advanced for him to benefit all that much from that level of competition. I think the D league works best for extremely raw players from overseas (or high school if that was still an option) and not players who have already played at a high level against advanced competition (NCAA). Tyrus is probably better off practicing with the team and getting garbage minutes.


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## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

thebizkit69u said:


> The situations arent coparable because Balkman was a better value at his draft position then Thomas. Oh and hes also a better player plain and simple.


I forgot that draft picks (and NBA careers) have a 14 game shelf-life.


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## TripleDouble (Jul 26, 2002)

kukoc4ever said:


> I've said several times that I think the only way the Bulls make a serious title run this season is if TT can give us 25 minutes of NBA difference making play at the 4 by the end of the season.


Agree, barring a trade.


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## BULLHITTER (Dec 6, 2005)

it's generally understood that fans in general *always* like the "other guy" if the guy on the home team isn't tearing it up. if memory serves me correctly, paxson didn't state that thomas was going to tear up the league, only that he had the most potential of all the players in the draft.

that stated it's funny how so many re-visit the "potential given away" (supposedly) in chandler and curry after unrealizing it over 4-5 years but thomas is a "bust" after several games.

not sure, but letting the season play out and watching to see how he progresses is my stance, not that some guy who's was questioned as worthy of a first round pick is better than the guy paxson took after several games prior to which he didn't even sniff the court. that's an easy but unfounded stance. there's a considerable faction throughout that serves to point out the minute aspects as though they have the weight of a season upon them when it's just not so. rose colored glasses aside;:lol: 

i love this game/board!!!


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## JeremyB0001 (Nov 17, 2003)

thebizkit69u said:


> The situations arent coparable because Balkman was a better value at his draft position then Thomas. Oh and hes also a better player plain and simple.


Sure you want to argue that the joke of the draft will have a better career than the player with the highest upside this early in the season?


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

Ron Cey said:


> I forgot that draft picks (and NBA careers) have a 14 game shelf-life.


In the short time he does play hes looked HORRIBLE.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

JeremyB0001 said:


> Sure you want to argue that the joke of the draft will have a better career than the player with the highest upside this early in the season?


Nobody is laughing at the Balkman pick anymore and if Tyrus keeps this up he will take his place.


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## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

thebizkit69u said:


> In the short time he does play hes looked HORRIBLE.


And?


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## BULLHITTER (Dec 6, 2005)

> Nobody is laughing at the Balkman pick anymore and if Tyrus keeps this up he will take his place.


balkman's simply a guy who* because* of his anonymity, is getting a few plays here and there; nobody knows what he can or can't do, so players are giving him whatever he wants. to his credit, he's playing hard. HOWEVER, he can't shoot, basically just runs well and hustles. basically a dime a dozen type player. see jerome williams, trevor ariza et al. once or twice around the league and his game will get figured out and he'll be what he is; a hustle guy who'll make a play now and then, and whose career will settle into journeyman status once isaiah is released.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

BULLHITTER said:


> balkman's simply a guy who* because* of his anonymity, is getting a few plays here and there; nobody knows what he can or can't do, so players are giving him whatever he wants. to his credit, he's playing hard. HOWEVER, he can't shoot, basically just runs well and hustles. basically a dime a dozen type player. see jerome williams, trevor ariza et al. once or twice around the league and his game will get figured out and he'll be what he is; a hustle guy who'll make a play now and then, and whose career will settle into journeyman status once isaiah is released.


If thats the case then Balkman is what Tyrus Thomas is supposed to be for the Bulls. Hustle, Work hard, runs well, engergy those are the same words that describe Tyrus. So lets hope that Tyrus doesnt turn into a journeyman as well.


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## JeremyB0001 (Nov 17, 2003)

thebizkit69u said:


> Nobody is laughing at the Balkman pick anymore and if Tyrus keeps this up he will take his place.


...I understood that this was your reasoning. If you're curious about the counter argument you can look at my post (#34) above. I just wanted to give you a chance to think it through again and perhaps take it back since your judgment comes across as quite rash. Just realize, there's a decent chance people will be laughing at your posts in this thread in a month or a few months time...


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

JeremyB0001 said:


> ...I understood that this was your reasoning. If you're curious about the counter argument you can look at my post (#34) above. I just wanted to give you a chance to think it through again and perhaps take it back since your judgment comes across as quite rash. Just realize, there's a decent chance people will be laughing at your posts in this thread in a month or a few months time...


Sir, I understand that hes played such few minutes, but there is a damn good reason for that. All you have to do it open your eyes when hes on court an evaluate him as a player and not for what he could possibly bring in the future. Hes played such short minutes because frankly when hes on the court he does alot more harm then he does good.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

thebizkit69u said:


> The situations arent coparable because Balkman was a better value at his draft position then Thomas. Oh and hes also a better player plain and simple.


Tyrus reminds me a whole lot of Crawford's first year. He barely touched the court, and when he did he was hanging on for dear life.

Like Crawford or not, it'd take a real clown to look at him at this point and not say he didn't develop into a legitimate NBA player. Maybe not one you like, but one that was legit enough for Pax to offer the MLE to. 

Looking back at his draft position, it's clearly not laughable and it's obvious that just because someone picked later hit the league "ready to play" (Khalid El-Amin) he'll always be better.

Tyrus is going to get it too. He's trying way too hard, but he's shown a few spectacular plays too.


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## RoRo (Aug 21, 2002)

thebizkit69u said:


> Sir, I understand that hes played such few minutes, but there is a damn good reason for that. All you have to do it open your eyes when hes on court an evaluate him as a player and not for what he could possibly bring in the future. Hes played such short minutes because frankly when hes on the court he does alot more harm then he does good.


so the pattern is set and he's done developing? it's true he's played terrible in general. but he has had his moments. i think he guarded odom better than anyone else did in the lakers game. his help defense vs miami was also very good. his athleticism is just as advertised, freakish indeed, and when it's channled properly he can contribute.

as for his problems, when i watch him i see someone who's forcing the issue instead of reading the situation and reacting. instead of waiting to see if a player is going to shoot or drive, he's already made his mind up to block the shot. or he's already intent on shooting a short jumper, regardless if his defender is already in his face. it's disturbing to see that lack of an iq, but i'm not too worried because he's shown that he can play smart ball (NCAA's). so to me it's natural that he's going to improve as the season passes.


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## JonH818 (Aug 31, 2006)

Trade him now while teams and the league still think he has "potential" His stock is still rather high and he would get a lot more playing time on another team. If we are in "win mode" now, let's get someone that can help us out in our "win mode". Many people still think that he could be great, just like Tyson and Eddy but why wait 3 or 4 years like Tyson and Eddy to realize that they aren't advancing that much. Imagine if we traded Tyson and Eddy when we first selected them, we probably would've gotten a lot more out of it but we didn't know either whether they would be great or not. It's all a gamble but if we really are in "win mode" this instant, trade him.


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## JeremyB0001 (Nov 17, 2003)

thebizkit69u said:


> Sir, I understand that hes played such few minutes, but there is a damn good reason for that. All you have to do it open your eyes when hes on court an evaluate him as a player and not for what he could possibly bring in the future. Hes played such short minutes because frankly when hes on the court he does alot more harm then he does good.


Hey I can't disagree with your scouting opinion. It's your opinion and you're entitled to it. I just meant to point out that it was a wild, outlandish, and shocking prediction which almost no one else has ventured to make. I can say I've watched Luke Schensher play and he will be the best center in the NBA sometime within the next two seasons. I'd just want to stop and ask myself what I know that no one else does and why everyone else's opinion is completely and utterly flawed. Being in the vast minority isn't proof that you're wrong but it's a good reason to rethink your claim and strongly consider others' point of view.


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## ballerkingn (Nov 17, 2006)

My Thought's are just as i thought he would be coming into the league,just a pure enegry player that will blk shoots,and play good D.But his offense will struggle for awhile,but he shoot's a good ball,and work's hard so in time he should be a help of a player. 1 thing i question is his hand size,something which is often overlooked,does anyone know if he can palm the ball,because if he can that will only speed up the his offensive game.Anyway give the kid some time he's on a Team set to win now and he was the best long term draft pick,because we had to the time and resources to develope him.Also i do believe that we would have taken LA if the blazer didn't offer us the deal they did.But TT will be a pf/sf or just a forward,he will bulk up and he and deng,ben,and TT will give us one of the longest most atheletic front line's in awhile,and once Big ben leave's he will be our starting pf with deng at the 3 and and some unknow player at the 5 hopefully someone we draft this year.Still TT will be what i expected him to be 1 day a STAR,u wait and see.


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## darlets (Jul 31, 2002)

The good:
His 20 years old.
Has good size/length.
Great athlete
Hard working
Seems to like playing basketball
Natural talent for blocking shots, rebounding and steals.
Can pass.

The bad:
Can't shoot jumpshoots
Lacks experience
Needs to gain weight.

I'm very confident he will gain 15 pounds in 2-3 years, he might gain more. I don't see him stacking on the pounds though.
I feel confident his experience will improve (I'm talking about learning from mistakes)
Jumpshot, well fingers crossed, but it's not without precedent.

In short, all the things on the bad list should improve, alot of things on the good list can't be taught.

Most great players in the N.B.A are guys with skills and physical gifts, I'm not prepared to give up on player that has physical gifts and the *potential* to develop the skills. 

Expectations, in two years he'll be getting
10 points / 8 rebounds/ 2 blocks / 1 steal a game as a 22 year old. I'll take that.


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## OziBull (Nov 7, 2004)

It will take some time, but Tyrus Thomas will be the most well known name on the Bulls team! He will be a player mark my words!
Just got to have patience.
I am behind ya Tyrus


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## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

MikeDC said:


> Tyrus reminds me a whole lot of Crawford's first year. He barely touched the court, and when he did he was hanging on for dear life.
> 
> Like Crawford or not, it'd take a real clown to look at him at this point and not say he didn't develop into a legitimate NBA player. Maybe not one you like, but one that was legit enough for Pax to offer the MLE to.
> 
> ...


co-sign.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Tyson Chandler, part deux. All the pro-Thomas statements are nearly identical to what we heard abot Chandler the whole time he was here. And, I don't believe Skiles is good at developing big men (PF/C).


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## theanimal23 (Mar 2, 2005)

DaBullz said:


> Tyson Chandler, part deux. All the pro-Thomas statements are nearly identical to what we heard abot Chandler the whole time he was here. And, I don't believe Skiles is good at developing big men (PF/C).


True so far. But like Chandler, I will give Tyrus a few years. After the Twin Babies, I have gone to judge a players ability for stardom based off his improvements by year 3/4. I'll give Tyrus at least 2 years before I think he is another one-dimensional player.


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## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

His fundamentals are shockingly bad. The guy can't even do the most basic stuff. The TC comparison is good but I think a homeless man's Stromile Swift is more accurate at this point. And that's as bad as it gets as a player.

Barring some miracle he's as good as useless to the team this season. So Tyrus better work his butt off during the offseason. This franchise can't afford another TC.


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

JeremyB0001 said:


> I'd just want to stop and ask myself what I know that no one else does and why everyone else's opinion is completely and utterly flawed. Being in the vast minority isn't proof that you're wrong but it's a good reason to rethink your claim and strongly consider others' point of view.


Does "JeremyB" stand for Jeremy Bentham?


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

ScottMay said:


> Does "JeremyB" stand for Jeremy Bentham?


Easily the best use of a 19th Century philosopher in a Bulls board post today! :lol:


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## Salvaged Ship (Jul 10, 2002)

I think he could bring something to the table we desperately need IF GIVEN A CHANCE TO PLAY THROUGH SOME MISTAKES. Of course he is going to make mistakes. But are his mistakes that much worse than Gordons mistakes, Duhons, Dengs? All these guys make mistakes. The guy showed something in preseason. He has athletic ability off the charts. He was a very positive influence in the Miami game. He can block shots. His weakside shot blocking ability could be a great asset for us. He has the ability to make a spectacular play on a team of unspectacular players. May bring life to the club with one of those plays. Wouldn't eveyone agree his development is key to our success? And whos minutes would he take? Some of Malik Allen's? Geez, this kids development is worth the sacrifice of some of Malik Allen and PJ Brown's minutes. 

Imagine being a 20 year old with expectations who if he makes one mistake is out of the game. Don't you people think he needs more than 2 minutes a night to develop? Can you be labeled "retarded" if you have only played 85 minutes in your career? Maybe let him get 12-15 minutes a night and play through some mistakes? It's not like those 15 minutes he would play is being taken by some mistake free stud. Skiles is absolutely horrible at times with CERTAIN players. This kid needs a few minutes, and to be honest the mistakes he makes in his 2 minutes a night are no worse than the constant errors of some of our other players. Realize the guy has the ability to make plays no one else can on this team(remember the block on Shaq, the tip dunk in the Miami game, several jaw dropping moments in preseason), realize if we are to be a good team this kid HAS TO DEVELOP AND CONTIBUTE. He showed a bit of offense in the preseason. Again, what can a 20 yr old kid do with only a few minutes a game, knowing if he passes gas on the court he is yanked for the rest of the night! I want to see Thomas get 15 minutes a night, some with the first unit. WE NEED HIM TO DEVELOP OR WE WILL NOT SUCCEED, AND LOOKING AT THE KID I DO THINK HE HAS A REAL CHANCE IF GIVEN A BIT OF LEEWAY. 

I am beginning to grow tired of Skiles and his handling of certain players. It seemed like Skiles used the kid's face mask as an excuse to get him off the court, and now he won't put him out there for more than a few minutes. Skiles can absolutely destroy a young player if he doesn't like him. Let him foul out in 5 minutes. Who cares!! The kid needs to play.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

SPMJ said:


> His fundamentals are shockingly bad. The guy can't even do the most basic stuff. The TC comparison is good but I think a homeless man's Stromile Swift is more accurate at this point. And that's as bad as it gets as a player.
> 
> Barring some miracle he's as good as useless to the team this season. So Tyrus better work his butt off during the offseason. This franchise can't afford another TC.


Thats what drives me crazy about the drafting of this guy, if its obvious to guys like you and me that Tyrus Thomas has awfull basketball fundamentals then would it not be obvious to John Paxon? Alot of the negative stuff we say about Tyrus is taken as hatred in this board, but its not.

Just look at him play, look at how he moves on offense the kid does not know what to do on the court. The fact that he was a freshman out of college should not be an excuse because you know what, Tyler Hansborough as a freshman was not only 10 times better then Tyrus Thomas right now but he had a much higher basketball IQ and the same goes for other young guys in college. This kid has zero basketball IQ and no matter how gifted athletically you are (Quintel Woods, Eddie Robinson, etc?) if you dont show that you have the mental capacity to evolve as a profesional basketball player on and off the court then you are not going to make it. Tyrus has shown that even though hes a great athlete, his problems with even the slightest bit of criticism can do him in.


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## Showtyme (Jun 24, 2002)

The thing about zero basketball IQ... if we're going STRICTLY off of observation...

I think I'd say the same thing about Ben Wallace's minutes for the Bulls thus far.


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## lgtwins (May 18, 2004)

thebizkit69u said:


> Thats what drives me crazy about the drafting of this guy, if its obvious to guys like you and me that Tyrus Thomas has awfull basketball fundamentals then would it not be obvious to John Paxon? Alot of the negative stuff we say about Tyrus is taken as hatred in this board, but its not.
> 
> Just look at him play, look at how he moves on offense the kid does not know what to do on the court. The fact that he was a freshman out of college should not be an excuse because you know what, Tyler Hansborough as a freshman was not only 10 times better then Tyrus Thomas right now but he had a much higher basketball IQ and the same goes for other young guys in college. This kid has zero basketball IQ and no matter how gifted athletically you are (Quintel Woods, Eddie Robinson, etc?) if you dont show that you have the mental capacity to evolve as a profesional basketball player on and off the court then you are not going to make it. Tyrus has shown that even though hes a great athlete, his problems with even the slightest bit of criticism can do him in.


I survived 5 years of Tyson. I can certainly survive a few more year of TT before I call him a bust. 

Yes, it's frustrating to watch him play and yes, it does show early sign of Tyson. But he also showed something Tyson didn't too. It's just early and we all (INcluding Paxon) knew it would take a year or two with TT. 

So what is the freaking rush?


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

lgtwins said:


> I survived 5 years of Tyson. I can certainly survive a few more year of TT before I call him a burst.
> 
> Yes, it's frustrating to watch him play and yes, it does show early sign of Tyson. But he also showed something Tyson didn't too. It's just early and we all (INcluding Paxon) knew it would take a year or two with TT.
> 
> So what is the freaking rush?


The freaking rush is he is a part of the squad we came into the season expecting to rise to at least the second round of the playoffs. This year.

While his 2010 potential may through the roof, a more NBA ready pick may have furthered the Win Now goal a little better.


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## lgtwins (May 18, 2004)

TomBoerwinkle#1 said:


> The freaking rush is he is a part of the squad we came into the season expecting to rise to at least the second round of the playoffs. This year.
> 
> While his 2010 potential may through the roof, a more NBA ready pick may have furthered the Win Now goal a little better.


I totally agree with this sentiment but very few expected that TT would make an impact this first year in the first place. Clearly TT pick over Adridge was a project. I just don't understand that this rush to call a project a bust after 14 games.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

lgtwins said:


> I totally agree with this sentiment but very few expected that TT would make an impact this first year in the first place. Clearly TT pick over Adridge was a project. I just don't understand that this rush to call a project a bust after 14 games.


I certainly am not in a rush to call him a bust. I've grown to like him since the draft.

But I never expected an instant impact, and instant impact is needed at the moment.


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## lgtwins (May 18, 2004)

TomBoerwinkle#1 said:


> I certainly am not in a rush to call him a bust. I've grown to like him since the draft.
> 
> But I never expected an instant impact, <b>and instant impact is needed at the moment.</b>


This much we all agree.


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## DengNabbit (Feb 23, 2005)

Luol Deng came into the NBA after one year of college...and he got a lot better from the onset of his rookie year to the end of it

I'm not saying Tyrus had the same level of preparation at LSU that perhaps Deng had at Duke... but I think he's going to get opportunities to get on the floor all year--- if for no other reason because he has abilities no one else on the roster gives us. we've seen him take the ball strong to the hole...problem is we've seen too many dunderheaded plays in between those instances.

he'll get opportunites to get better, even within this year.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

DengNabbit said:


> Luol Deng came into the NBA after one year of college...and he got a lot better from the onset of his rookie year to the end of it
> 
> I'm not saying Tyrus had the same level of preparation at LSU that perhaps Deng had at Duke... but I think he's going to get opportunities to get on the floor all year--- if for no other reason because he has abilities no one else on the roster gives us. we've seen him take the ball strong to the hole...problem is we've seen too many dunderheaded plays in between those instances.
> 
> he'll get opportunites to get better, even within this year.


Deng clearly demonstrated he had actual basketball skills.

That's the big difference in the two.


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## JonH818 (Aug 31, 2006)

AMAZING ATHLETE WITH NO BASKETBALL IQ OR SKILLS 

















Does any recall Harold Miner? They called him Baby Jordon. He won the slam dunk contest. AMAZING ATHLETE with huge "POTENTIAL".

Where is he now?


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

JonH818 said:


> AMAZING ATHLETE WITH NO BASKETBALL IQ OR SKILLS
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There was a rumor going around that he was going to buy a ballpark.

(If you don't get the reference, I can explain it)


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## JeremyB0001 (Nov 17, 2003)

TomBoerwinkle#1 said:


> The freaking rush is he is a part of the squad we came into the season expecting to rise to at least the second round of the playoffs. This year.
> 
> While his 2010 potential may through the roof, a more NBA ready pick may have furthered the Win Now goal a little better.


Sometimes I find the belief that the Bulls are in win now mode to be a little bit misguided. I think to actually be in win now mode, you must have limited potential for the future on your roster and/or sacrifice your chances of winning in the future to win in the present. While the Bulls certainly want to win right now and they hoped siging Wallace would further that goal, they have as much young talent as just about any team in the league and I can only think of a few minimal ways in which they've sacrified their ability to win down the line to do better right now: 1) denying players like Tyrus developmental minutes to play veterans like Brown 2) signing Wallace at the expense of signing younger vets like Drew Gooden or Pryzbilla 3) signing Wallace even though the luxury tax ramifications of his deal meant trading Chandler and could (but most likely won't) affect the team's ability to sign or retain young players in the future.

I think you can make an argument that the Bulls are built for the future as much as just about any team in the league, they just had a chunk of money lying around and an impact veteran available and said "hey why not try to have our cake and eat it too." If that's the case it makes little sense to prioritize drafting a player who will play 15 or 20 average MPG this season over one who plays less and not quite as well but projects better in the long term.


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## JonH818 (Aug 31, 2006)

DaBullz said:


> There was a rumor going around that he was going to buy a ballpark.
> 
> (If you don't get the reference, I can explain it)


Please explain. I heard something about him traveling to every ball park in America but I don't remember why.


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## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

Showtyme said:


> The thing about zero basketball IQ... if we're going STRICTLY off of observation...
> .


I'd say TT has a high defensive BB IQ.


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## JonH818 (Aug 31, 2006)

johnston797 said:


> I'd say TT has a high defensive BB IQ.


TT has the ability to jump out of the gym. That doesn't require that much of an IQ. He has amazing athletic ability and he just swats the ball when it's in the air. If you notice on defense, he gets beat a lot off the dribble and has trouble switching and covering pick and rolls. He fouls a lot on the perimeter. I don't think he has a high defensive BB IQ at all. Just look at Skiles reaction after all his fouls on defense.

Anyone agree or disagree?


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## Showtyme (Jun 24, 2002)

JonH818 said:


> TT has the ability to jump out of the gym. That doesn't require that much of an IQ. He has amazing athletic ability and he just swats the ball when it's in the air. If you notice on defense, he gets beat a lot off the dribble and has trouble switching and covering pick and rolls. He fouls a lot on the perimeter. I don't think he has a high defensive BB IQ at all. Just look at Skiles reaction after all his fouls on defense.
> 
> Anyone agree or disagree?


He needs to beef up into an interior defender. He's got the quickness, but not the instincts to keep up with perimeter guys.

If he plays as an off-the-ball help defender that can defend his guy in the post and come over on the weak side to block shots, I think Tyrus Thomas can do an excellent job defensively. Swatting the ball while it's in the air is how some people have decided to employ a shot-blocking methodology.

Maybe I haven't watched him in recent games, but I've seen him actually make some serious basketball plays. Because of the disunity on the team, and because he doesn't really know what anyone else is supposed to be doing, and because they haven't grown comfortable with what he's capable of, I've seen his Bulls teammates not be looking for entry passes, to not be cutting when he gets the ball in the post, and to be unsure of when he's going to take a jump shot and when he's going to just drop the ball off to someone else.

When a team's not playing together that well, it's nearly impossible to measure basketball IQ, no? I think Jermaine O'Neal has excellent basketball IQ, and I suspect he always has had it. But with his time on the Blazers, although definitely talented, he wasn't able to find a place or way to contribute on that team effectively. Why? Because they were sort of a mess, first of all, and second of all, he just didn't fit in with what they were doing.


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## JeremyB0001 (Nov 17, 2003)

JonH818 said:


> Does any recall Harold Miner? They called him Baby Jordon. He won the slam dunk contest. AMAZING ATHLETE with huge "POTENTIAL".
> 
> Where is he now?


You could come up with examples of failed draft picks on both sides all day long but the reality is that athleticism and "upside" have proven at least as important as polish and a high level of previous success. With perhaps one or two exceptions, every high school player that entered the league in the last decade was extremely raw and unable to make any substantial contribution as a rookie but many have turned into stars: McGrady, Jermaine O'Neal, Garnett, Howard, Kobe, and Rashard Lewis to name a few. There's also a laundry list of smart, skilled, successful college players who have lacked the size and athleticism to excel in the NBA: Mateen Cleaves, Scoonie Penn, Khalid El Amin, Trajon Langdon, Tractor Trailor, the O'Bannon brothers, Fizer, Joseph Forte, etc. 

Prospects fail because they're too raw and never develop skills. Prospects sometimes deveop skills despite entering the NBA with mostly raw athleticism. Prospects fail because they were successful college players but lack the necessary size and athleticism. Players sometimes succeed despite athleticism because they have a high basketball IQ and great skills despite mediocre athleticism. Tyrus was arguably the best player on a Final Four team in one of the top 3 or 5 leagues in the world. If a player as raw and inexperienced as Jermaine O'Neal or Rashard Lewis can become a star, he's far from hopeless.


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## SPIN DOCTOR (Oct 31, 2002)

TomBoerwinkle#1 said:


> The freaking rush is he is a part of the squad we came into the season expecting to rise to at least the second round of the playoffs. This year.
> 
> While his 2010 potential may through the roof, a more NBA ready pick may have furthered the Win Now goal a little better.


Most pre-draft talk seemed to be nervous chatter about Pax's propensity to only draft finished product type winners that had very limited upside potential. The crescendo was reached on the "Bring on the freaks" post that had over 100 responses. It seemed at that time we collectively were tired of the teams limited athleticism.

I thought Skiles was right this morning, TT just needs to calm down. I think he is going to a great ballplayer, you can learn the game, but you cannot teach what that kid has.


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

SPIN DOCTOR said:


> Most pre-draft talk seemed to be nervous chatter about Pax's propensity to only draft finished product type winners that had very limited upside potential. The crescendo was reached on the "Bring on the freaks" post that had over 100 responses. It seemed at that time we collectively were tired of the teams limited athleticism.
> 
> I thought Skiles was right this morning, TT just needs to calm down. I think he is going to a great ballplayer, you can learn the game, but you cannot teach what that kid has.


I think the thing young Tyrus hasn't realized yet is, the NBA game is alot slower than the college game so he HAS to slow down. He could get away with some of those cheap fouls in college, but not in the big league. When he calms down and realizes those things, he'll be a MAJOR player in this league.


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

Showtyme said:


> He needs to beef up into an interior defender. He's got the quickness, but not the instincts to keep up with perimeter guys.


I'd have to disagree...

He's a much better perimeter defender than he is interior....when those long arms come into play, he steals passes quite easily and always seems to start fast breaks...hell even playing the defender man-to-man on the perimeter, he still forces them into bad decisions, thus more steals and fast break points...BEST perimeter defender on this team...


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## darlets (Jul 31, 2002)

I in no way shape or form believe the bulls are in win now mode. 

Paxson drafted projects over more contribute now guys.
He drafted the best free agent he could.
He got rid of Chandler for cap space next year or a asset to trade (P.J contract) or because the bulls are tight with money.

This entire win now myth seems to be based around signing Ben Wallace who happens to be 32. 

Paxson has done a reasonable job of mixing Veterns that can contribute with our young core. Though I happen to think our young core is Kirk and Deng and maybe Noc as a sixth man and that's it. The jury is still out on the two new rookies.


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## Showtyme (Jun 24, 2002)

The ROY said:


> I'd have to disagree...
> 
> He's a much better perimeter defender than he is interior....when those long arms come into play, he steals passes quite easily and always seems to start fast breaks...hell even playing the defender man-to-man on the perimeter, he still forces them into bad decisions, thus more steals and fast break points...BEST perimeter defender on this team...


Best perimeter defender on big men PF's that like to play on the perimeter, but I don't think he's like a KG or someone that can STICK a good SF. I would never feel comfortable with Tyrus Thomas on Paul Pierce, and I'd feel much more comfortable with Deng or Hinrich on Pierce.

And I think that while Tyrus has long arms and can create some mismatches, he'd be better used as an interior defender that happens to be really quick. I hate drawing so many similarities to a player that hasn't had the greatest career, but K-Mart was very much that kind of player... a shot-blocking type or a help defender near the hoop more than a perimeter defender.


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## jbulls (Aug 31, 2005)

Showtyme said:


> Best perimeter defender on big men PF's that like to play on the perimeter, but I don't think he's like a KG or someone that can STICK a good SF. I would never feel comfortable with Tyrus Thomas on Paul Pierce, and I'd feel much more comfortable with Deng or Hinrich on Pierce.
> 
> And I think that while Tyrus has long arms and can create some mismatches, he'd be better used as an interior defender that happens to be really quick. I hate drawing so many similarities to a player that hasn't had the greatest career, but K-Mart was very much that kind of player... a shot-blocking type or a help defender near the hoop more than a perimeter defender.


As a defender, I don't think Chandler is a terrible comp. Both Thomas and Chandler have the ability to stay in front of guys on the perimeter and alter shots inside. I'm not sure that either guy will ever be a good post defender, but given that Tyrus is a 3/4 and Tyson is a 4/5 I think that's less of an issue for Tyrus.

I think Thomas' detractors need to take a deep breath. At this point in the season the highest scoring rookie is Adam Morrison, with a whopping 16 a game for a bad team in the Bobcats, and he does little else. The leading rebounder is Shelden Williams with 7.1 for Atlanta, not exactly Dennis Rodman and the Hawks aren't all that fantastic. No rookie is averaging 4 assists a game. Rudy Gay, the "more polished Tyrus", is shooting something like 34 percent for Memphis. We're 13 games in, there's no point in freaking out.


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## LoyalBull (Jun 12, 2002)

Anyone remember the (pre drugs) shawn Kemp when he came in the leauge?

No Skills. 

100 MPH.

Crazy skinny athlete.

By year 3 the kid was a double double.

By year 6 he was All NBA.

No real jump shot at first, no skills.

Just athleticism.

Comparitively, Tyrus is already a better shot blocker and rebounder than Kemp was at this point their first years.


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## DengNabbit (Feb 23, 2005)

i think if Tyrus just agrees to stop shooting, stop creating his own offense... he'll play more per game and be able to help as a bench player this year.


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## BULLHITTER (Dec 6, 2005)

> Anyone remember the (pre drugs) shawn Kemp when he came in the leauge?
> 
> No Skills.
> 
> ...


exactly what my impressions of tyrus were; i'd surmise its what pax did as well; it's a good thing he's a better talent evaluator than those labeling him bust after 14 games.


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## McBulls (Apr 28, 2005)

Who was the last Bulls rookie 1st rounder who didn't cause anxiety with a poor start in the first quarter of a season?

MJ was certainly a hit right off the bat. So was Elton Brand. 

But Pippen, Grant, Purdue, King, BJ Armstrong, et al., up to Curry, Chandler, Jay Williams, Hinrich, Gordon and now Thomas got off to poor starts. A lot of the picks ended up to be pretty good NBA players, some were just decent contributors and some were not so good.

Thomas seems to have the talent to end up on the pretty good end of this list if he avoids serious injury -- which is something to be seriously concerned about. 

I was an Aldridge advocate before the draft, because he filled a need in the frontline, and Thomas seemed like too much of a risk who didn't fill an obvious need. Aldridge would have fit in well with Chandler and whatever FA big the Bulls picked up. He was, and is, the safe pick. Nothing has happened since the draft that has changed my mind. 

So don't include me in the list of folks who begged Paxson for a "freak" last summer. It will be a long, long time before I have to admit I was wrong to want the obvious choice. Usually it's better to keep the Brand in hand rather than letting him go for the wish in the bush.


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## JeremyB0001 (Nov 17, 2003)

McBulls said:


> Who was the last Bulls rookie 1st rounder who didn't cause anxiety with a poor start in the first quarter of a season?
> 
> MJ was certainly a hit right off the bat. So was Elton Brand.
> 
> ...


I went back and checked Brand's splits from his rookie year. Somewhat to my surprise, his November stats are quite strong. Nevertheless, I have a vivid memory of people calling him a bust very early in the season and talking about him struggling to get his shot off over NBA defenders. ESPN.com doesn't have game logs going back that far, but it wouldn't shock me if he struggled in his first 5 or 7 games and people jumped to conclusions as they have this season (and pretty much every season for that matter).

I felt the same way you do about Aldridge up until a few weeks before the draft. What changed my mind was that the scouting reports seemed to consistently say that he had more of a face the basket, jump shooting offensive game as opposed to a pure post game. It's extremely early and the sample sizes are still extremely small but so far the numbers are bearing that out. According to 82games.com, 52% of Aldridge's attempts are jumpers which is comperable to 54% for Deng and 55% for Brown. By comparision, Dwight Howard is at 17%, Yao is at 42%, Curry is 28%, and Amare is at 39%. There are a number of guys known as low post scorers though who are closer to Aldridge's range so there could be some big problems with sample size and/or the way 82 games classifies jump shots. Either way, the point remains that I'm not yet convinced that Aldridge is the type of player who can draw a double team in the post and create spacing on offense. Assuming that he's more of a pick and pop guy right now we already have Allen and Brown to do that.


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## Goubot (Aug 16, 2006)

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/brandel01_2000.html

Foul trouble seemed to limit his minutes in some games, and he did have a problem with turnovers. However, for the most part, he did quite well for a 20 year old rookie. He was able to get to the line, had some fairly good rebounding games (although he didn't turn into a double double machine until later in the year), and shot well from the field. His progression as the season went on is fairly clear, though. I remember seeing that Chicago/Laker game where he had 29/17 and I remember being pretty impressed. 

His first 5-7 games weren't so hot, outside of one. I don't remember the reactions of those, though.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

TomBoerwinkle#1 said:


> The freaking rush is he is a part of the squad we came into the season expecting to rise to at least the second round of the playoffs. This year.
> 
> While his 2010 potential may through the roof, a more NBA ready pick may have furthered the Win Now goal a little better.


I think the thinking on the part of Pax was that Ben Wallace and PJ Brown's superiority vis-a-vis their departing counterparts would be enough to lift the Bulls into the second round.

---------------------------



JeremyB0001 said:


> ccording to 82games.com, 52% of Aldridge's attempts are jumpers which is comperable to 54% for Deng and 55% for Brown. By comparision, Dwight Howard is at 17%, Yao is at 42%, Curry is 28%, and Amare is at 39%. There are a number of guys known as low post scorers though who are closer to Aldridge's range so there could be some big problems with sample size and/or the way 82 games classifies jump shots. Either way, the point remains that I'm not yet convinced that Aldridge is the type of player who can draw a double team in the post and create spacing on offense. Assuming that he's more of a pick and pop guy right now we already have Allen and Brown to do that.


That probably wouldn't have been bad though, because I tend to think a real low-post guy will have difficulty working with Wallace because he can't step out and do much of anything.

I'm still on-board with Thomas though. Aldridge would have been a good fit with Wallace or Tyson for that matter, for the same reasons), but he still doesn't look like he'll be a star to me. I still think Tyrus will be.


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## JeremyB0001 (Nov 17, 2003)

Goubot said:


> http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/brandel01_2000.html
> 
> Foul trouble seemed to limit his minutes in some games, and he did have a problem with turnovers. However, for the most part, he did quite well for a 20 year old rookie. He was able to get to the line, had some fairly good rebounding games (although he didn't turn into a double double machine until later in the year), and shot well from the field. His progression as the season went on is fairly clear, though. I remember seeing that Chicago/Laker game where he had 29/17 and I remember being pretty impressed.
> 
> His first 5-7 games weren't so hot, outside of one. I don't remember the reactions of those, though.


Thanks for the link. I think it must've been after those first 7 or 8 games. You're right that even then he didn't play that badly, people just like to overreact especially when dealing with their own rookies.


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## TripleDouble (Jul 26, 2002)

I'll take this kind of production from Tyrus for the rest of the season.


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## DengNabbit (Feb 23, 2005)

darlets said:


> I in no way shape or form believe the bulls are in win now mode.
> 
> Paxson drafted projects over more contribute now guys.


which recent draftees are going to contribute big minutes to a solid playoff team? none of em. 

at his best, Tyrus can contribute some bench minutes to a good team. just like any of the other rooks. the supposed polished rookies right now arent doing much anyway.


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## theanimal23 (Mar 2, 2005)

LoyalBull said:


> Anyone remember the (pre drugs) shawn Kemp when he came in the leauge?
> 
> No Skills.
> 
> ...


I have my fingers crossed for T2 to be the All-Pro Kemp. The similarities are there. If T2 becomes another Kemp, we will be going places.


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## step (Sep 19, 2005)

> I have my fingers crossed for T2 to be the All-Pro Kemp. The similarities are there. If T2 becomes another Kemp, we will be going places.


Lets just hope he doesn't require the drugs to get to that level.


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## DengNabbit (Feb 23, 2005)

it's not too hard to figure what messages Skiles is sending his players. with Tyrus, he seems to be saying: "play hard, don't shoot much. you will get minutes"


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## SausageKingofChicago (Feb 14, 2005)

I liked the way Skiles seemed to use Tyrus last night

Bring him in on teams on the road on the back end of back to backs in the 2nd Qtr /3rd quarter whenever they're back has been broken

Not pressure cooker situations but where he can use his energy to stamp on them and get some confidence up

And bring him back to beat up some more in GT 

Tyrus will see quality minutes through December /January and I expect to be a steady contributing member of the rotation in the back end of the season 

Kids a quick learner and I think he'll surprise in the 2nd half of the season


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## Hustle (Dec 17, 2003)

DengNabbit said:


> it's not too hard to figure what messages Skiles is sending his players. with Tyrus, he seems to be saying: "play hard, don't shoot much. you will get minutes"


And stay away from the chippy fouls. The refs are just waiting to blow the whistle on this kid.

Nice for Tyrus to have his first good game as a pro. He didn't do much against the Hornets but the team played well while he was in for that game as well. Seems like almost every small chunk of minutes he got before that was a negative for the team. We need his rebounding skills and ability to finish around the basket.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

Random thought on Tyrus Thomas, which is why I'm bumping this thread...

Did anyone watch much of Shawn Marion his rookie year? I seem to remember Marion posting 10 pts & 6 rebounds his rookie year. But I would think most of that came late in the year after adjusting to the league. Marion had to be fairly raw, I would imagine. That is, until he began to break out in his 2nd and 3rd seasons. It'll be interesting to see how much better Tyrus might be in March and April.


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