# Orlando Magic vs. Toronto Raptors Game Thread



## hobojoe

Monday November 29, 2004
Orlando Magic vs. Toronto Raptors, 7:00 p.m. ET









Orlando Magic (8-4) 
Coached by: Johnny Davis 

Projected Starting Lineup:




































S. Francis  | D. Stevenson  | Grant Hill  | D. Howard  | K. Cato 

Key Reserves:






















T. Battie  | H. Turkoglu | P. Garrity 












Toronto Raptors (7-9)
Coached by: Sam Mitchell  

Projected Starting Lineup:




































R. Alston | V. Carter | J. Rose | C. Bosh | L. Woods

Key Reserves:






















M. Peterson | M. Bonner | D. Marshall 



Key Matchup:
Battle of the 6th Men















Hedo Turkoglu vs. Donyell Marshall


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## Turkish Delight

Should be a good game, it can really go either way. Toronto are up beat after that win in Miami last night, and Orlando are at home where they have played well for the most part this season.


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## hobojoe

Garrity was placed on the injured list with a foot injury today, so he's out for at least the next 5 games including this one. Turkoglu's going to have to play well for us over that stretch as really our only legit 3-point threat(unless of course Mobley comes back).


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## hobojoe

> Originally posted by <b>jcintosun911</b>!
> Should be a good game, it can really go either way. Toronto are up beat after that win in Miami last night, and Orlando are at home where they have played well for the most part this season.


Toronto's only 2-7 on the road this year, the Magic need to win this one.


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## sKiP~2~mY~BLUTH

i think magic will win cuz toronto playin b2b game..


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## Captain Obvious

Mobley is apparently available. 26-23 Raps with 4 minutes left in the first, jeez. Raps are on fire from long range, I don't see it lasting.


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## JNice

Orlando looking pretty good. Good to have Mobley back.


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## JNice

Did Grant Hill just pull the off-hand behind the head dunk? Uh-oh .. enter him in the dunk contest.

Grant Hill dunk count: 3
Grant Hill limping after dunk count: 0


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## Captain Obvious

I love high scoring games like this.


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## JNice

Vince looks like he is on auto-pilot out there. Really just coasting through the game. Sad.


----------



## JNice

Dwight with a good first-half. 9 pts, 5 rebs, and 1 block in the first half.

Orlando shooting 63%. With a little defense, we should be up 20 at the half.


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## Samir

mobley looks good so does dwight as well as cato...francis is doing well and so is turkey man (turkoglu) hehe:grinning:


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## JNice

Ooh damn, Hill just crossed up Carter pretty bad.


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## JNice

Dwight with his 10+ boards again tonight. 11 rebounds with 20 mins left in the game.


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## JNice

Raptors really need some changes. They don't look like they really give a crap out there.


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## JNice

There's been an Aroojoe sighting.


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## HKF

You mean Araujo. Orlando looks like a machine out there. I did not see many of these kinds of ball games from teams last year. If the team is clicking offensively, they have juggernaut potential. 

It all goes back to talent in this league. When you have talent, coaching looks a lot better than it really is.


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## sKiP~2~mY~BLUTH

ok, u won...


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## Captain Obvious

Howard is looking absolutely great out there. 13 pts, 15 reb, 2 ast, 2 stl, and 2 blk at the end of the third. How can a team look so bad one game and so good the next? I guess that's what we've come to expect with this team.


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## JNice

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> You mean Araujo. Orlando looks like a machine out there. I did not see many of these kinds of ball games from teams last year. If the team is clicking offensively, they have juggernaut potential.
> 
> It all goes back to talent in this league. When you have talent, coaching looks a lot better than it really is.


I was kidding on Araujo.

Man, that guy was a terrible pick. Maybe worse than Reece Gaines.


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## JNice

> Originally posted by <b>Captain Obvious</b>!
> Howard is looking absolutely great out there. 13 pts, 15 reb, 2 ast, 2 stl, and 2 blk at the end of the third. How can a team look so bad one game and so good the next? I guess that's what we've come to expect with this team.


:laugh: 

Figure that out and we might be champs this year.

It seems like we are either all on or all off. Most of it comes down to Francis.

Avg'ing 24 ppg in wins, 14 ppg in losses.


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## Captain Obvious

Hell, even Kasun's looking great out there. Maybe I was too hard on him. 

As a type this, Kasun picks up his FIFTH foul in limited minutes.

EDIT: He just fouled out. Niiiice.


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## hobojoe

Yes! Just tuned in late to this one; I like the score and the boxscore.  

13-15-3-2-2 for Howard. 16 points for Mobley off the bench in his return on 6-10 shooting, 3-6 from downtown.


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## hobojoe

Career high 16th board for Dwight!


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## sKiP~2~mY~BLUTH

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> Career high 16th board for Dwight!


keep countin...


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## JNice

> Originally posted by <b>Captain Obvious</b>!
> Hell, even Kasun's looking great out there. Maybe I was too hard on him.
> 
> As a type this, Kasun picks up his FIFTH foul in limited minutes.
> 
> EDIT: He just fouled out. Niiiice.


6 fouls in 11 mins. :laugh: 

Toronto looks terrible. Surprised they won all those early games.


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## Captain Obvious

I'm embarrassed for the Raps. I thought they might sneak in the playoffs this year, but they're making me look bad.


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## JNice

Geez, 121 with 6 mins left. This is crazy.


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## hobojoe

20 rebounds for Howard!  

What a BEAST!


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## JNice

Looks like Dwight is done.

15 pts, 20 rebs, 2 blocks, 2 stls, 3 asts

A career night.


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## Scinos

My god, you guys are killing the Raps...And still pouring in the points with a 35 point lead...

20 boards for Dwight. Wow.


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## JNice

> Originally posted by <b>Scinos</b>!
> My god, you guys are killing the Raps...And still pouring in the points with a 35 point lead...
> 
> 20 boards for Dwight. Wow.


We can't help it. Our bench is even so much better than Toronto's bench.


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## HKF

> Originally posted by <b>JNice</b>!
> 
> 
> We can't help it. Our bench is even so much better than Toronto's bench.


Dwight Howard is so good. He's gonna be better than David Robinson. :wbanana:


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## JNice

I kind of like Mobley coming off the bench. Stevenson has been decent starting at SG. Having two 15-20 ppg type guys coming off the bench in Mobley and Turkey glue would be great. He looked good tonight just coming in and firing away.


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## hobojoe

> Originally posted by <b>JNice</b>!
> I kind of like Mobley coming off the bench. Stevenson has been decent starting at SG. Having two 15-20 ppg type guys coming off the bench in Mobley and Turkey glue would be great. He looked good tonight just coming in and firing away.


That might not be too bad of an idea. I doubt it'll happen though, who knows how Mobley would react.


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## Turkish Delight

> Originally posted by <b>JNice</b>!
> 
> 
> We can't help it. Our bench is even so much better than Toronto's bench.


I'm sure it is. 
Keep thinking that.
You guys won a game, way to go.
Do you now expect to be on the top of the world?


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## Captain Obvious

> Originally posted by <b>jcintosun911</b>!
> 
> 
> I'm sure it is.
> Keep thinking that.
> You guys won a game, way to go.
> Do you now expect to be on the top of the world?


We're clearly the better team, there's no denying that, sorry.

As for Mobley, I want him to start, and I expect him to on Friday.


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## JNice

> Originally posted by <b>jcintosun911</b>!
> 
> 
> I'm sure it is.
> Keep thinking that.
> You guys won a game, way to go.
> Do you now expect to be on the top of the world?


I don't have to think that, I know it. We had two starter caliber players in Hedo and Stevenson on the floor in garbage time and also Jameer Nelson, who are all better than anyone Toronto had on the court.

Don't be so defensive.


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## hobojoe

> Originally posted by <b>jcintosun911</b>!
> 
> 
> I'm sure it is.
> Keep thinking that.
> You guys won a game, way to go.
> Do you now expect to be on the top of the world?


 

The Magic are clearly better than the Raptors, sorry you have to take such offense to a comment simply saying that he thinks Orlando's bench is better than Toronto's. Nobody said anything bashing the Raptors or rubbing in a victory, nor did anyone say anything about expecting to on top of the world. Chill out.


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## Turkish Delight

Let's look at stats shall we?
*Orlando Bench* 
Hedo Turkoglu 15.8 PPG, 3.8 RPG, 2.3 APG, 44% FG
DeShawn Stevenson 6.3 PPG, 2.3 RPG, .8 APG, 45% FG
Jameer Nelson 4.5 PPG, 1.5 RPG, 2.0 APG, 35% FG
Tony Battie 3.8 PPG, 5.7 RPG, .7 APG, 30% FG
Mario Kasun 1.7 PPG, 2.5 RPG, .3 APG, 30% FG

*Toronto Bench* 
Morris Peterson 8.6 PPG, 3 RPG, .9 APG, 38% FG
Matt Bonner 7.8 PPG, 3.6 RPG, .3 APG, 61% FG
Donyell Marshall 9 PPG, 5 RPG, .9 APG, 44% FG
Milt Palacio 5.9 PPG, 1.4 RPG, 3.1 APG, 52% FG
Lamond Murray 6.2 PPG, 2.9 RPG, 1.4 APG, 41%

Who has the better bench? You tell me.
Orlando whooped Toronto, I'll give you that, but that doesn't mean that they have a better bench, or even a better _team _ by any means. Boston beat you guys in a similar game the other night and you guys were playing at home. Is Boston a better team than Orlando?


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## hobojoe

Boxscore


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## hobojoe

> Originally posted by <b>jcintosun911</b>!
> Let's look at stats shall we?
> *Orlando Bench*
> Hedo Turkoglu 15.8 PPG, 3.8 RPG, 2.3 APG, 44% FG
> DeShawn Stevenson 6.3 PPG, 2.3 RPG, .8 APG, 45% FG
> Jameer Nelson 4.5 PPG, 1.5 RPG, 2.0 APG, 35% FG
> Tony Battie 3.8 PPG, 5.7 RPG, .7 APG, 30% FG
> Mario Kasun 1.7 PPG, 2.5 RPG, .3 APG, 30% FG
> 
> *Toronto Bench*
> Morris Peterson 8.6 PPG, 3 RPG, .9 APG, 38% FG
> Matt Bonner 7.8 PPG, 3.6 RPG, .3 APG, 61% FG
> Donyell Marshall 9 PPG, 5 RPG, .9 APG, 44% FG
> Milt Palacio 5.9 PPG, 1.4 RPG, 3.1 APG, 52% FG
> Lamond Murray 6.2 PPG, 2.9 RPG, 1.4 APG, 41%
> 
> Who has the better bench? You tell me.


Magic's. Not by much, but the Magic have the better bench in my opinion. Showing stats doesn't do much. Let's talk about minutes played, past history(a slow or fast start doesn't mean you're amazing or horrible) and other things.




> Orlando whooped Toronto, I'll give you that, but that doesn't mean that they have a better bench, or even a better _team _ by any means. Boston beat you guys in a similar game the other night and you guys were playing at home. Is Boston a better team than Orlando?


Who was judging anything by one game? You?

Orlando 9-5
Toronto 7-10
Boston 5-8

Face the facts. Vince doesn't give a ****, and the Raptors aren't going anywhere without him on board (they may not even be a good team even if he wanted to be in Toronto).


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## TOballer

it was quite obvious the raps were outta energy...second night of a back-to-back? after facin (and beatin) shaq and the heat? playin with no centre on the roster?

P.S. the raps bench IS better than the magic's bench...and one game doesnt mean much, dont get all hyped up


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## Turkish Delight

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> 
> 
> Who was judging anything by one game? You?
> 
> Orlando 9-5
> Toronto 7-10
> Boston 5-8



*Orlando Schedule* 
Milwakee 
@ New Orlenas
@ Charlotte
Dallas
@ Washington
LA Lakers
@ Philadelphia
Utah
@ Indiana
Portland
@ Atlanta
Philadelphia
Boston
Toronto

How many of these games were against +500 teams?

6

*Toronto Schedule* 
Houston
Detroit
Portland
@ Sacramento
@ Utah
@ Seattle
@ Portland
@ LA Clippers
@ Denver
Seattle
San Antonio
Washington
New York
@New York 
Washington
@ Miami
@ Orlando


How many of these games were against +500 teams?
15!

Big difference.


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## madman

> Originally posted by <b>jcintosun911</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> *Orlando Schedule*
> Milwakee
> @ New Orlenas
> @ Charlotte
> Dallas
> @ Washington
> LA Lakers
> Philadelphia
> Utah
> @ Indiana
> Portland
> Atlanta
> Philadelphia
> Boston
> Toronto
> 
> How many of these teams are over 500?
> 6
> 
> *Toronto Schedule*
> Houston
> Detroit
> Portland
> @ Sacramento
> @ Utah
> @ Seattle
> @ Portland
> @ LA Clippers
> @ Denver
> Seattle
> San Antonio
> Washington
> New York
> @New York
> Washington
> @ Miami
> @ Orlando
> 
> 
> How many of these teams are over 500?
> 15!
> 
> Big difference.


Exactly, and we are on our 2nd 6 game road trip


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## Turkish Delight

If your going to be an obvious bias, as would be expected, since you are defending your own team on your own board, at least provide some evidence to support your ideas, which would be hard to find I am sure, since they is none.


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## hobojoe

> Originally posted by <b>TOballer</b>!
> it was quite obvious the raps were outta energy...second night of a back-to-back? after facin (and beatin) shaq and the heat? playin with no centre on the roster?
> 
> P.S. the raps bench IS better than the magic's bench...and one game doesnt mean much, dont get all hyped up


Good lord. This is incredible. Nobody's getting all hyped up about anything, we all know how good the Magic are. Nothing was started until jcintosun911 freaked out over nothing. The Raptors aren't a good team, I said it several times over the offseason. I don't understand why all you Raptors fans went crazy when I said the Raptors would be worse this year and wouldn't make the playoffs. All I heard was, "new coach and new system", "Vince will return to his old form", "Araujo will give us a legit center", "we have the best bench in the league". Fact is, the Raptors can't win on the road, and Vince doesn't care about the Raptors at all right now.


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## Turkish Delight

If you had the schedule we did, I think you would be doing just as bad, at the moment, your road record isn't very impressive by any means either.


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## madman

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> Vince doesn't care about the Raptors at all right now.


ya which means that we are without 20-25 ppg that we should be having and are still in the hunt for our division


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## JNice

> Originally posted by <b>TOballer</b>!
> it was quite obvious the raps were outta energy...second night of a back-to-back? after facin (and beatin) shaq and the heat? playin with no centre on the roster?
> 
> P.S. the raps bench IS better than the magic's bench...and one game doesnt mean much, dont get all hyped up


:laugh: 

Like Toronto is the only team to have played the 2nd night of a back to back. There is no excuse to get blown out basically by 30-35 pts, regardless of a back to back.

Why is everyone getting so defensive? 

It is more than obvious Orlando is a better team. It has nothing to do with bias.


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## JNice

> Originally posted by <b>madman</b>!
> 
> 
> ya which means that we are without 20-25 ppg that we should be having and are still in the hunt for our division


You are also in the worst division in the NBA.


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## TOballer

the raps are WORSE than they were last yr? maybe u havent noticed the followin:
Chris Bosh's development?
finally a legit 15/6 pg on our roster?
a 7 2 C avrg'in 6/7?
Lamond Murray gettin pt?

and also, just to let u know, the 2 teams that were not over 500 in our sked. were Detroit and Houston.


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## TOballer

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> 
> 
> Good lord. This is incredible. Nobody's getting all hyped up about anything, we all know how good the Magic are. Nothing was started until jcintosun911 freaked out over nothing. The Raptors aren't a good team, I said it several times over the offseason. I don't understand why all you Raptors fans went crazy when I said the Raptors *would be worse* this year and wouldn't make the playoffs. All I heard was, "new coach and new system", "Vince will return to his old form", "Araujo will give us a legit center", "we have the best bench in the league". Fact is, the Raptors can't win on the road, and Vince doesn't care about the Raptors at all right now.


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## JNice

> Originally posted by <b>TOballer</b>!
> the raps are WORSE than they were last yr? maybe u havent noticed the followin:
> Chris Bosh's development?
> finally a legit 15/6 pg on our roster?
> a 7 2 C avrg'in 6/7?
> Lamond Murray gettin pt?
> 
> and also, just to let u know, the 2 teams that were not over 500 in our sked. were Detroit and Houston.


You also were very hot to start the season with guys like Alston and Woods playing far above their normal career levels. Now that those guys are leveling off, Toronto has started losing.


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## adhir

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> 
> 
> Dwight Howard is so good. He's gonna be better than David Robinson. :wbanana:


calm down there buddy....any big man does this aginst the raps...dont get to ahead of yourself.....


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## TOballer

we beat the Heat at Miami last night for ur info, so its not like were playin TERRIBLE ball...the consistency just isnt there yet. but were def. better than we were last yr and were sure as hell not the NDBL team u make us out to be. (directed to JNice)


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## JNice

> Originally posted by <b>TOballer</b>!
> we beat the Heat at Miami last night for ur info, so its not like were playin TERRIBLE ball...the consistency just isnt there yet. but were def. better than we were last yr and were sure as hell not the NDBL team u make us out to be.


I'm definitely not calling you an NBDL, I'm just saying Orlando is clearly better IMO. And it really has nothing to do with this one game either, just like I doesn't really matter that Toronto beat Miami or that a team like Charlotte beat Orlando. 

I really like Bosh and I think the Raps need to dump Vince and his bad attitude and focus everything around him. I don't see how Toronto can be a really good team with the crap attitudes of Carter and Rose hanging around.


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## HKF

> Originally posted by <b>adhir</b>!
> 
> 
> calm down there buddy....any big man does this aginst the raps...dont get to ahead of yourself.....


Excuse you. Don't address me. I can celebrate Howard if I want. I'm not an Orlando fan. Mind your business.


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## Turkish Delight

> Originally posted by <b>JNice</b>!
> 
> 
> I'm definitely not calling you an NBDL, I'm just saying Orlando is clearly better IMO. And it really has nothing to do with this one game either, just like I doesn't really matter that Toronto beat Miami or that a team like Charlotte beat Orlando.
> 
> I really like Bosh and I think the Raps need to dump Vince and his bad attitude and focus everything around him. I don't see how Toronto can be a really good team with the crap attitudes of Carter and Rose hanging around.


Meh there's no reason of trading Carter right now, we just won't get fair market value for him, which is low I understand, but it's better to be patient. Dumping Jalen Rose? I'm not so sure, he's a warrior.


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## hobojoe

> Originally posted by <b>jcintosun911</b>!
> If your going to be an obvious bias, as would be expected, since you are defending your own team on your own board, at least provide some evidence to support your ideas, which would be hard to find I am sure, since they is none.


I'm going to be a bias? :laugh: 

Sorry, but first of someone can't be bias, I think you mean bias*ed*. And even in that case, it's an adjective not a noun. Regardless, this is just getting funnier by the second. Should I even bother responding to such ridiculous posts and accusations? 

You're calling me biased for saying the Magic are a better team, and saying they have a slightly better bench than the Raptors(I wasn't even the original poster who said anything about benches). Do you actually think the Raptors are better than the Magic? 

The Raptors and Magic are two of the deepest teams in the league, I recognize that and never once said anything about the Raptors not being deep. But again, of course you're jumping to conclusions, making assumptions and calling me a homer (which is funny coming from you with the kind of things you're saying).

I love this "settle down it's only one game" talk when nobody's been making a big deal about anything except Raptors fans.

- Eight players in double-figures tonight for the Magic.
- Froncourt depth; 61-32 rebounding edge for the Magic tonight. Howard, Battie and Cato collectively are a whole lot better than Bosh, Woods, Araujo/Moiso. 



> Orlando Schedule
> Milwakee


Solid team, take into account Milwaukee's played a killer schedule too. 



> @ New Orlenas


New Orleans sucks, but a road victory is a road victory. The Raptors are 2-8 on the road.



> @ Charlotte


Here's your road back-to-back argument, it works both ways.



> Dallas


Beating Dallas is impressive. 



> @ Washington


Washington is 8-5 overall, and this was a road game. Understandable loss.



> LA Lakers


Another decent Western Conference opponent.



> @ Philadelphia


Philly's a tough team, they've played a hard schedule so far.



> Utah


Utah was playing great up to this point in their season, now they've struggled.



> @ Indiana


Road victory regardless of who it was against. Taking care of business.



> Portland


Solid Western conference team.



> Atlanta


Taking care of business on the road.



> Philadelphia


Impressive victory.



> Boston


Poor loss, it happens.



> Toronto


Dominating performence against a "good" team (can't have it both ways now). 




> How many of these teams are over 500?
> 6


The season is young, you realize a lot of those teams have hard schedules. Another factor I'm sure you didn't think of is that since the Magic have actually been winning, naturally their opponents will have lower records because of the losses they're receiving from Orlando. It's so early in the season that makes a big difference. The Raptors on the other hand have given teams 10 wins now total, of course their schedule will look harder. 


The Magic are one of, if not the best rebounding teams in the league. Just ask the Raptors. The Magic were leading the league in rebounding as a team coming into the game, just look and see what a 61-32 massacre on the boards will do to their stats. 

You want evidence to support my ideas(although prior to this post I personally hadn't even input many ideas at all, you're just once again looking for something to complain about), now you have it.


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## JNice

> Originally posted by <b>jcintosun911</b>!
> I'm not so sure, he's a warrior.


:laugh: 

Now that I don't agree with. He's a bad seed. Always has been, always will be. There is a reason a guy as talented as Jalen continually gets shipped all over the league.


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## hobojoe

> Originally posted by <b>TOballer</b>!
> the raps are WORSE than they were last yr? maybe u havent noticed the followin:
> Chris Bosh's development?
> finally a legit 15/6 pg on our roster?
> a 7 2 C avrg'in 6/7?
> Lamond Murray gettin pt?
> 
> and also, just to let u know, the 2 teams that were not over 500 in our sked. were Detroit and Houston.


That's wonderful, come back to me when they win more games than they did last season.


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## hobojoe

> Originally posted by <b>madman</b>!
> 
> 
> ya which means that we are without 20-25 ppg that we should be having and are still in the hunt for our division


Well guess what...you don't have it. And you're not going to have it any time soon. Anyone could've told you that before the season too when Vince started whining, that's no excuse. Being in the hunt for your division when you're in the worst division in the NBA and a month into the season is really no accomplishment at all.


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## Turkish Delight

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> 
> You want evidence to support my ideas(although prior to this post I personally hadn't even input many ideas at all, you're just once again looking for something to complain about), now you have it.


Thanks for that Orlando "Season in Review"
Very insightful.
My point is that Toronto's bench is better than people think, if not better than Orlando's, and that Orlando's record is only better than Toronto's because of their easy schedule so far. We'll see how well Orlando does against the Spurs, the Heat, the Pistons, the Sonics, teams that the Raptors have all played already this year.


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## JNice

> Originally posted by <b>jcintosun911</b>!
> 
> 
> Thanks for that Orlando "Season in Review"
> Very insightful.
> My point is that Toronto's bench is better than people think, if not better than Orlando's, and that Orlando's record is only better than Toronto's because of their easy schedule so far. We'll see how well Orlando does against the Spurs, the Heat, the Pistons, the Sonics, teams that the Raptors have all played already this year.


And your team's record is only better because you started the year on a hot streak that probably won't be duplicated for the rest of the season.


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## firstrounder

To the Magic fans who are talking smack:

Lick my sweaty bag.


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## JNice

> Originally posted by <b>firstrounder</b>!
> To the Magic fans who are talking smack:
> 
> Lick my sweaty bag.


:laugh: 

Good one!


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## TOballer

> Originally posted by <b>JNice</b>!
> 
> 
> And your team's record is only better because you started the year on a hot streak that probably won't be duplicated for the rest of the season.


our record is better??


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## JNice

> Originally posted by <b>TOballer</b>!
> 
> 
> our record is better??


Meant better than it should be. I guess I should have made that more clear.


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## hobojoe

> Originally posted by <b>jcintosun911</b>!
> 
> 
> Thanks for that Orlando "Season in Review"
> Very insightful.
> My point is that Toronto's bench is better than people think, if not better than Orlando's, and that Orlando's record is only better than Toronto's because of their easy schedule so far. We'll see how well Orlando does against the Spurs, the Heat, the Pistons, the Sonics, teams that the Raptors have all played already this year.



You ask for support and facts, I give it to you and I get a wise *** crack for doing so. Unbelievable. :laugh: 

Whine all you want about the Raptors getting no respect. I said they're one of the deepest teams in the league if you actually read what I wrote. Whine all you want about the schedule. Toronto's played San Antonio, Miami, Seattle. Orlando's played Dallas, @ Washington, Lakers, Utah, etc. So Toronto's schedule has been a little harder so far, so what? Orlando's played some tough games and have actually _won_ some game against difficult teams. Having a tough schedule doesn't automatically make you a good team, which is pretty much the argument you're using. Is Phoenix not good either? Their schedule's been easy.


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## TOballer

> Originally posted by <b>JNice</b>!
> 
> 
> Meant better than it should be. I guess I should have made that more clear.


well, couldnt the same thing be said about the magic? who's to say Francis and Mobely wont get back to their selfish ways? or Howard hittin the rookie wall? or Grant Hill goin out (hopefully wont happen)? Hedo is performin over his standards too...it works both ways, man


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## Turkish Delight

:uhoh: 
Now your comparing Orlando to Phoenix?


This thread has become pointless. 
Hey I can't blame any of these Magic fans for being so bias, they already have half the wins they had all of last season.
Heck last season they didn't know whether they were watching the NBA or the NBDL.


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## hobojoe

> Originally posted by <b>firstrounder</b>!
> To the Magic fans who are talking smack:
> 
> Lick my sweaty bag.


For the 1431365236th time: 

A Raptors fan starting this whole thing by overreacting and bashing us after a comment was made about the benches of the two teams, and escalated this into a "huge argument" even though none of are getting all emotional and worked up, only you guys are. No Magic fan is "talking smack", those would be the fans of the 7-10 Raptors who just got demolished by the 9-5 Magic talking smack to their fans.


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## JNice

> Originally posted by <b>TOballer</b>!
> 
> 
> well, couldnt the same thing be said about the magic? who's to say Francis and Mobely wont get back to their selfish ways? or Howard hittin the rookie wall? or Grant Hill goin out (hopefully wont happen)? Hedo is performin over his standards too...it works both ways, man



What selfish ways? BS. Francis and Mobley are pretty much playing as expected. Howard has been just about as consistent as can be. And Hill as long is he is healthy, there is no reason to believe what he is doing now isn't what he'll be doing all year.

On the other hand, the numbers that Alston and Woods started the season putting up, I don't think anyone but Toronto fans expected those numbers to continue. And they haven't.


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## JNice

> Originally posted by <b>jcintosun911</b>!
> :uhoh:
> Now your comparing Orlando to Phoenix?
> 
> 
> This thread has become pointless.
> Hey I can't blame any of these Magic fans for being so bias, they already have half the wins they had all of last season.
> Heck last season they didn't know whether they were watching the NBA or the NBDL.


It isn't bias thinking Orlando is clearly a better team than Toronto. Go start a poll on the NBA board and see what the results are. I guarantee Orlando wins that vote.

I don't see how saying that classifies as "talking smack" ...


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## TOballer

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> You ask for support and facts, I give it to you and I get a wise *** crack for doing so. Unbelievable. :laugh:
> 
> Whine all you want about the Raptors getting no respect. I said they're one of the deepest teams in the league if you actually read what I wrote. Whine all you want about the schedule. Toronto's played San Antonio, Miami, Seattle. Orlando's played Dallas, @ Washington, Lakers, Utah, etc. So Toronto's schedule has been a little harder so far, so what? Orlando's played some tough games and have actually *won* some game against difficult teams. Having a tough schedule doesn't automatically make you a good team, which is pretty much the argument you're using. Is Phoenix not good either? Their schedule's been easy.


Houston W 95 - 88 
Detroit W 101 - 89 
Portland W 101 - 97 
@ Utah W 104 - 95 
San Antonio W 96 - 91 
@ Miami W 94 - 92 
New York W 114 - 91


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## hobojoe

> Originally posted by <b>jcintosun911</b>!
> :uhoh:
> Now your comparing Orlando to Phoenix?


They're two NBA teams, aren't they? Is their a problem? Oh no, you're just implying things again to make me look bad. Oops, you failed again. Who said Orlando was better than Phoenix, or even close to as good. Uh, nobody. 




> This thread has become pointless.
> Hey I can't blame any of these Magic fans for being so bias, they already have half the wins they had all of last season.
> Heck last season they didn't know whether they were watching the NBA or the NBDL.


Good one! Sorry, but no Magic fan is being very biased right now, you all are obviously worked up after a loss and are taking it out on us for no particular reason.


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## JNice

> Originally posted by <b>TOballer</b>!
> 
> 
> well, couldnt the same thing be said about the magic? who's to say Francis and Mobely wont get back to their selfish ways? or Howard hittin the rookie wall? or Grant Hill goin out (hopefully wont happen)? Hedo is performin over his standards too...it works both ways, man


In addition, Orlando was missing Mobley for 9 games and two key role players, Garrity and Tony Battie, have shot the ball terribly.


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## hobojoe

> Originally posted by <b>TOballer</b>!
> 
> 
> well, couldnt the same thing be said about the magic? who's to say Francis and Mobely wont get back to their selfish ways? or Howard hittin the rookie wall? or Grant Hill goin out (hopefully wont happen)? Hedo is performin over his standards too...it works both ways, man


Francis has been non-existant on the road, he's turned the ball over more than 4 times a game, Mobley's been injured for most of the year, Garrity just went on the IL, Howard very well could hit the rookie wall, but he'll still be an effective rebounder, Hedo isn't performing over his standards, his shooting is way down from what you'd expect, he just has a bigger role on the Magic. They lost to the Bobcats. Things could be a hell of a lot better for the Magic, it's not like things are going great for them and there's no way they could keep it up.


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## TOballer

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> 
> 
> Francis has been non-existant on the road, he's turned the ball over more than 4 times a game, Mobley's been injured for most of the year, Garrity just went on the IL, Howard very well could hit the rookie wall, but he'll still be an effective rebounder, Hedo isn't performing over his standards, his shooting is way down from what you'd expect, he just has a bigger role on the Magic. They lost to the Bobcats. Things could be a hell of a lot better for the Magic, it's not like things are going great for them and there's no way they could keep it up.


see all the variables that take a part of it? dont u think its too early to come out and say the Magic are CLEARLY the better team? u might not see it, but that classifies as "talkin smack" in my books...so dont try to play the innocent part here, it looks sad.


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## JNice

> Originally posted by <b>TOballer</b>!
> 
> 
> see all the variables that take a part of it? dont u think its too early to come out and say the Magic are CLEARLY the better team? u might not see it, but that classifies as "talkin smack" in my books...so dont try to play the innocent part here, it looks sad.


:laugh: 

So if I say Miami is clearly a better team than Charlotte, is that talking smack?

Gimme a break. It isn't talking smack, its you guys getting defensive after getting whooped.


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## TOballer

> Originally posted by <b>JNice</b>!
> 
> 
> In addition, Orlando was missing Mobley for 9 games and two key role players, Garrity and Tony Battie, have shot the ball terribly.


D. Marshall has missed more than half the games this season due to an injury as well. and Vince Carter and Rose have played like garbage for more than most of the season as well. all teams have their issues, whats ur point?


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## TOballer

> Originally posted by <b>JNice</b>!
> 
> 
> :laugh:
> 
> So if I say Miami is clearly a better team than Charlotte, is that talking smack?
> 
> Gimme a break. It isn't talking smack, its you guys getting defensive after getting whooped.


on one hand ur comparing one team who made the playoffs last yr and added the most dominating player in the league with an expansion team.

on the other hand ur comparin 2 lottery teams from last yr, one being prob the worst team in the league, who look pretty close on paper. are the magic better? maybe...the raps better? maybe...it can go either way. but when u come out and say the Magic are *CLEARLY* better than the raps, ur startin ****..dont try to be a smart ***


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## JNice

> Originally posted by <b>TOballer</b>!
> 
> 
> on one hand ur comparing one team who made the playoffs last yr and added the most dominating player in the league with an expansion team.
> 
> on the other hand ur comparin 2 lottery teams from last yr, one being prob the worst team in the league, who look pretty close on paper. are the magic better? maybe...the raps better? maybe...it can go either way. but when u come out and say the Magic are *CLEARLY* better than the raps, ur startin ****..dont try to be a smart ***


There is no comparison between Orlando last year and this year so there is no use even mentioning it. Nobody who is playing for Orlando this year outside of DeShawn Stevenson even played for Orlando last year.

Saying that Orlando is clearly better than Toronto isn't starting anything. It is an observation and one that I think the majority of people would agree with. Sorry.


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## TOballer

speakin of observations...how come theres only 2 ppl postin on this forum? u guys just blew out a good team, what gives? theres more raps fans postin here than magic fans, lol.


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## JNice

> Originally posted by <b>TOballer</b>!
> speakin of observations...how come theres only 2 ppl postin on this forum? u guys just blew out a good team, what gives? theres more raps fans postin here than magic fans, lol.


Point being? Better question would be why are there so many Raptors fans getting defensive and feeling the need to express that here and take a lot of pot shots at Orlando.


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## JL2002

back to back are no excuse, but still it clearly meant a lot to this Raptors team whos' been stuggling with back to back games all along....and coming off a game against Shaq where everyone in the Raps team has to double team Shaq and running the pick up the man again all game long, it clearly affected the Raps running game today...

Magic were on fire for 5mins, practically everyone was hitting shots everywhere on the court ....and u have to say that there was a little luck on the Magic side there....We did that once to the Knicks and we blew them out also by 30pts and won by 20pts at the end....

But what happen after? Knicks beat us at their home court...and can you say that the Magic will definitely beat the us on our home court?


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## Captain Obvious

Wow this is hilarious. Raptor fans hijack our board with whining about how their team's so great. How can you say we're not clearly better right now? We have a much better record and we were winning by almost *FORTY* points before the scrubs came in. You guys whine when we get T-Mac from you, now you whine after getting whooped. Get over it. We got smacked on Monday by Boston but we didn't start any crap, we took the loss in stride like rational people do.


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## JL2002

actually....some guy in our board posted the link to this thing.... 

anyway...my pt is lets wait until the next game @ Toronto to judge which team is better.....


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## JT3000

Raptors fans make me ashamed to be an NBA fan. Is there a way of disowning that entire franchise? It's not like they ever win anyway, just fold them already.


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## rapsfan4life

> Raptors fans make me ashamed to be an NBA fan


What is shameful is that horrible attendance record you posess, what are there 40 people in the stands. Raptor fans top 10 in the league in attendance for the past 5 years to my recolection. Don't know about the majic attendance records but i know this year they are in the 20's among nba teams. Quite shameful for the amazing hall of fame team you claim to have:sour:


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## rapsfan4life

by the way my point is... dont start bashing a fan base because you are pissed off at 5 raps fans for out arguing you in a few posts over the internet. Bashing a fan base is talking smack in my book, so fine us raps fans will talk smack with the best of you, you know we will at least win on this board, what are there 3 of you here??:grinning:


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## firstrounder

Edited -- hobojoe


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## jskudera

> Originally posted by <b>jcintosun911</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> *Orlando Schedule*
> Milwakee
> @ New Orlenas
> @ Charlotte
> Dallas
> @ Washington
> LA Lakers
> @ Philadelphia
> Utah
> @ Indiana
> Portland
> @ Atlanta
> Philadelphia
> Boston
> Toronto
> 
> How many of these games were against +500 teams?
> 
> 6
> 
> *Toronto Schedule*
> Houston
> Detroit
> Portland
> @ Sacramento
> @ Utah
> @ Seattle
> @ Portland
> @ LA Clippers
> @ Denver
> Seattle
> San Antonio
> Washington
> New York
> @New York
> Washington
> @ Miami
> @ Orlando
> 
> 
> How many of these games were against +500 teams?
> 15!
> 
> Big difference.


Um, well, if you can't beat teams over .500, maybe that means you are not a competitor. Win some games on the west, then pleaseeeeee come say something.


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## jskudera

> Originally posted by <b>rapsfan4life</b>!
> 
> 
> What is shameful is that horrible attendance record you posess, what are there 40 people in the stands. Raptor fans top 10 in the league in attendance for the past 5 years to my recolection. Don't know about the majic attendance records but i know this year they are in the 20's among nba teams. Quite shameful for the amazing hall of fame team you claim to have:sour:


Would you want to go to a game where the team has 21 total wins? And what else do people do in Toronto, eh?


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## Sánchez AF

Hey Magic fans just remember this.

Not all the Raptors fan are like jcintosun911 so dont talk about the ALL raptors fan


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## lw32

> Edited


Honestly, you're really 24? Try 14. Most 24 year olds wouldn't be basing their predictions on the fact that the "Magic can eat a dick." I really question some peoples supposed age on this site.

As for the Raptors-Magic comparisons I'm glad you backed up your prediction with some reasons why Toronto will have the better record. I wouldn't be surprised if Toronto had a higher position in the playoffs than the Magic (considering that the Atlantic is extremely weak), but I would be surprised if the difference in the win column was in Toronto's favor. Of course, things can change drastically but with Carter being the unhappy camper he is, it'll be hard on the team.

Good win by us, we were really hitting our shots. Why is there a sudden influx of Toronto fans in here? They have their own thread on the exact same topic to vent on.


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## hobojoe

> Originally posted by <b>SpeakerBoxxX</b>!
> Hey Magic fans just remember this.
> 
> Not all the Raptors fan are like jcintosun911 so dont talk about the ALL raptors fan


Agreed. Everyone please avoid making remarks referring to an entire fan base. Realize who came in here and started the argument, and remember not to treat all Raptors fans like they're all the same person.


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## TOballer

> Originally posted by <b>SpeakerBoxxX</b>!
> Hey Magic fans just remember this.
> 
> Not all the Raptors fan are like jcintosun911 so dont talk about the ALL raptors fan


what exactly did he do that was so wrong and deserved all this bashing? as a fellow raptor fan u disappoint me...


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## Sánchez AF

> Originally posted by <b>TOballer</b>!
> 
> 
> what exactly did he do that was so wrong and deserved all this bashing? as a fellow raptor fan u disappoint me...


Just because we are Raptors fan that dont mean i should be agree with all he said specially when he come to other forum to attack other poster. And of course after a blowout lose.

We should congrat the Magic and thats it move to the next game.


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## rapsfan4life

> Would you want to go to a game where the team has 21 total wins?


Actually we were top 5 in attendance 2 years ago when we had a 13 win season i believe. And i was refering to this year.


As for raps fans, i agree with a poster asking what exactly did the first raptor fan poster do that was so bad. Don't insult an entire fan base period because fan bashing can go back and forth.


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## rapsfan4life

sorry thats 23 win season, we weren't that bad. LOL


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## JNice

> Originally posted by <b>Captain Obvious</b>!
> We got smacked on Monday by Boston but we didn't start any crap, we took the loss in stride like rational people do.


Best point here. 

If you don't want too see someone say that one team is better than another, then don't go to the other team's forum after they just whooped you.

I can't beleive this is still going.


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## hobojoe

> Originally posted by <b>JNice</b>!
> 
> 
> Best point here.
> 
> If you don't want too see someone say that one team is better than another, then don't go to the other team's forum after they just whooped you.
> 
> I can't beleive this is still going.


:yes: Amen.


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## bigbabyjesus

I'm a huge Raptor fan, but I don't think I could really argue in the fact that Raptors would be better than the Magic.

I think Orlando will beat out the Heat in there division and be the 2nd seed actually.. while the Raptors will come in about 7th-8th (depending on what happens with Vince, that could go up or down).. 

It seems like a lot of great things are happening to the Magic right now, and a lot of bad things are happening to the Raptors.


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## Dathomieyouhate

*waits till next game and marks this on calender.*


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