# Greece blows France at EuroBasketball



## DaBobZ (Sep 22, 2003)

And TP had zero assists shooting 5/12.

France is playing Bosnia next, if they loose this game France is almost out. That means good news for the Spurs as he'd be a little more rested than if he had to go through the playoffs of the Euro champs.
Bottom line if that happens there is a chance he won't ever play again for France, good news for the Spurs but bad news for French basketball.


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## TheRoc5 (Mar 1, 2005)

to i think of that its agood thing he will be rested but at the same time only shooting 5/12 zero assits in 28 min against greece is very discouraging. we will see how the next gm goes. anyone no what his best gm was so far


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## kisstherim (Jul 15, 2004)

TheRoc5 said:


> to i think of that its agood thing he will be rested but at the same time only shooting 5/12 zero assits in 28 min against greece is very discouraging. we will see how the next gm goes. anyone no what his best gm was so far


this is his very first gm in this euro championships, I Guess


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## KokoTheMonkey (Aug 4, 2003)

He also had 3 TO's, 0/3 from the three point line, and 0/3 from the free throw line. Let's pray that doesn't become a trend.


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## KokoTheMonkey (Aug 4, 2003)

Are we going to make this the official Tony Parker Euro-Basket thread? Why not. 


France beat Bosnia, but it was Boris Diaw who was the star for France, not Mr. Parker. As a matter of fact, Parker had a horrible game with 1/8 shooting, 2 points, 4 TO's in 26 minutes. Yikes.

http://www.hoopshype.com/eurobasket/boxscores/bos_fra.asp


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## TheRoc5 (Mar 1, 2005)

KokoTheMonkey said:


> Are we going to make this the official Tony Parker Euro-Basket thread? Why not.
> 
> 
> France beat Bosnia, but it was Boris Diaw who was the star for France, not Mr. Parker. As a matter of fact, Parker had a horrible game with 1/8 shooting, 2 points, 4 TO's in 26 minutes. Yikes.
> ...


man this isnt looking good


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## mr_tibo (May 15, 2003)

Tony played once again pretty bad against Slovenia today. He has problemes with his shot and he can't penetrate because France has no outside shooters.


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## Matiz (Jun 5, 2003)

Parker couldn't penetrate today even if he had Ray Allen, Michael Redd and John Stockton by his side...

2 points...

the best part is Boris Diaw 0/11 FT's

Rasho with 13 points and 10 rebounds


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## KokoTheMonkey (Aug 4, 2003)

I'm not even going to average out Parker's stats for three games, because I think I would puke over them. 


Rasho with 13 and 10 huh? I still think he's not as bad as everyone says, but I don't see where his minutes will come from unless Mohammed bombs this season.


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## mauzer (Jun 7, 2005)

I watched all France games and i can say-Parker is most OVERRATED player in the world. Without Duncan and Ginobilli he can do nothing. It is proven again and again. Tony-get back to Eva , all Europe is laughing at you :boohoo:


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## KokoTheMonkey (Aug 4, 2003)

mauzer said:


> I watched all France games and i can say-Parker is most OVERRATED player in the world. Without Duncan and Ginobilli he can do nothing. It is proven again and again. Tony-get back to Eva , all Europe is laughing at you :boohoo:



He had at least a few terrific games during this past regular season without Manu and Duncan, so I'll take those more into account since it was in a NBA game. I haven't seen any of these Eurobasket games so I can't defend Parker on how he's playing, but statistically at least it looks like he's doing more harm than good.


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## mr_tibo (May 15, 2003)

He was injured this summer so he couldn't prepare the Euro championship as he would have liked. And he's trying to change the way he shoot. It's a long work, he said that it will take at least 2 years to have an effective outside shoot.


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## starvydas (Jul 16, 2002)

I'm so dissapointed by Tony right now. He let his team down big time, his performance is really unforgivable for a professionnal basketball player. I knew he was a bad shooter in the first place but his attempts are not even close. Brick after brick after brick... And the guy keeps shooting... If I were the French coach I would forbid him to shoot outside the paint, he is currently that bad.
I'm so pissed right now because every media in France treats him like he's the Second Coming and thinks he'll get the title on his own. His stats after 3 games :

27.3 minutes (second in team) ; 4.7 PPG (on .259 shooting i.e. 7/34 FG and 0/3 FT) ; 1.3 APG ; 2.3 RPG; 2.7 TPG ; 0.7 SPG.


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## greekadonis (Jul 28, 2005)

starvydas said:


> I'm so dissapointed by Tony right now. He let his team down big time, his performance is really unforgivable for a professionnal basketball player. I knew he was a bad shooter in the first place but his attempts are not even close. Brick after brick after brick... And the guy keeps shooting... If I were the French coach I would forbid him to shoot outside the paint, he is currently that bad.
> I'm so pissed right now because every media in France treats him like he's the Second Coming and thinks he'll get the title on his own. His stats after 3 games :
> 
> 27.3 minutes (second in team) ; 4.7 PPG (on .259 shooting i.e. 7/34 FG and 0/3 FT) ; 1.3 APG ; 2.3 RPG; 2.7 TPG ; 0.7 SPG.


i'm from greece and i saw the game,diamantidis outplayed parker,it looked like diamantidis being an nba player and not parker,see the match statistics and see diamantidis statistics during all the preliminary round,it's obvious,let's face it,nba is not more too far from europian basketball,if i've seen parker for the fisrst time in my life in this games i wouldn't take it for noone european team


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## starvydas (Jul 16, 2002)

greekadonis said:


> i'm from greece and i saw the game,diamantidis outplayed parker,it looked like diamantidis being an nba player and not parker,see the match statistics and see diamantidis statistics during all the preliminary round,it's obvious,let's face it,nba is not more too far from europian basketball,if i've seen parker for the fisrst time in my life in this games i wouldn't take it for noone european team


Totally agreed, and it's not only Diamantidis that outplayed him but also Damir Mrsic (the guy is 35 and does not even play for a Euroleague team) from Bosnia and Jaka Lakovic from Slovenia.


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## KokoTheMonkey (Aug 4, 2003)

Come on now, Tony Parker belongs in the NBA. He's got nearly 400 games of NBA experience (including the playoffs) that say he's a NBA player. And I haven't seen any of the guys you have mentioned above play, but I doubt they are better than Tony Parker. Maybe at international ball, but that's probably it.


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## mauzer (Jun 7, 2005)

KokoTheMonkey said:


> Come on now, Tony Parker belongs in the NBA. He's got nearly 400 games of NBA experience (including the playoffs) that say he's a NBA player. And I haven't seen any of the guys you have mentioned above play, but I doubt they are better than Tony Parker. Maybe at international ball, but that's probably it.


Thats BS. Everybody in this board was saying that Eva's toyboy is waaaaay overrated. Yes, he was promising young prospect, but everybody sees that he is not making any improvement . Put him on regular team without TD and Gino and he will dissapear. And of course Parker belongs to the NBA, but don't put him in top 10.


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## starvydas (Jul 16, 2002)

KokoTheMonkey said:


> Come on now, Tony Parker belongs in the NBA. He's got nearly 400 games of NBA experience (including the playoffs) that say he's a NBA player. And I haven't seen any of the guys you have mentioned above play, but I doubt they are better than Tony Parker. Maybe at international ball, but that's probably it.


Sure he's an NBA player and a pretty good one too, but to my mind his performance shows how unidimensional he can be, i.e. he relies on his speed and that's it. Unlike Manu, who has been sensational with Argentina in international competitions, he's really a totally different player 
when Duncan is not around to take the defensive focus.


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## KokoTheMonkey (Aug 4, 2003)

Well, I don't know about you guys but I'll take the nearly 400 games he has played in the NBA into account a lot more than 3-4 games playing in a Euro Basket league. The dude just got a 66 million dollar contract and you're telling me he's not a NBA player? Now that's BS.

Parker's not a perfect player by any stretch of the imagination, and if we learned something about him last season it's that he's not as good as Manu. There's nothing wrong with that since Manu is a terrific player himself, but Parker has more than earned his spot on not just a NBA team, but a NBA championship team. Tell me when these Euro Basket stars Diamantidis or Damir Mrsic do something meanwhile in the NBA, then I'll start listening to your arguments. The bottom line is you're making a large overview over a tiny sample. That's the main thing I'm arguing with you about here.


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## KokoTheMonkey (Aug 4, 2003)

Here's some research I did. Tim Duncan missed 16 regular season games this past season, and Tony Parker played in all 16 of them. Here are his stats from those 16 games:


19.4 PPG on 47% shooting from the field. What a scrub without Duncan. The Spurs went 9-7 in those games to FYI. So hey, I've got 16 games of evidence saying that Parker is a good player without Duncan, you have what, 4? Whatever floats your boat.


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## mauzer (Jun 7, 2005)

66 mil contract doesn't mean that player is very good ( Foyle, Okur, Turkoglu, Webber). Euro ball is about one game batles, each game is live or die, and Parker is failing in like 4 champ in the row to show something when it matters. So what that he avereged 19 points a game with TD out in almost meaningless strech in 82 game marathon? Game were not important , defence was pathetic, he made open layups and open threes. When in matters -he simply dissapears. ( Look at your signature, how long are you waiting for Parker unleashing? )


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## KokoTheMonkey (Aug 4, 2003)

mauzer said:


> 66 mil contract doesn't mean that player is very good ( Foyle, Okur, Turkoglu, Webber). Euro ball is about one game batles, each game is live or die, and Parker is failing in like 4 champ in the row to show something when it matters. So what that he avereged 19 points a game with TD out in almost meaningless strech in 82 game marathon? Game were not important , defence was pathetic, he made open layups and open threes. When in matters -he simply dissapears. ( Look at your signature, how long are you waiting for Parker unleashing? )


We obviously have a different interpretation of "when it matters." I personally don't consider Euro Basket games to be "When it matters". 


Meaningless games? Tim Duncan wasn't in the lineup in those games, and just a few losses here and there would have been the difference between the Spurs being the NBA champs and having to be the #4 seed playing the Houston Rockets in a slug fest. Those were huge games actually, and he faired pretty damn well playing against much, much, much better competition. 


As for my sig, all I will say is that you better hope he doesn't get unleashed, because I will gloat and boast unmercifullly.


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## starvydas (Jul 16, 2002)

KokoTheMonkey said:


> We obviously have a different interpretation of "when it matters." I personally don't consider Euro Basket games to be "When it matters".


Maybe you don't, but it does matter for Tony and he said it numerous times. It's like saying you don't care how the US fare in the Olympics.


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## KokoTheMonkey (Aug 4, 2003)

starvydas said:


> Maybe you don't, but it does matter for Tony and he said it numerous times. It's like saying you don't care how the US fare in the Olympics.



No it's not. Are you criticizing France or are you criticizing Tony Parker? You are criticizing a player and are saying he's not good all of the sudden because he has a few bad games playing in Euro Basket. Of course I care about how the USA fares in the Olympics, but I wasn't flipping out and calling Tim Duncan an overrated bum when they came up short.


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## starvydas (Jul 16, 2002)

KokoTheMonkey said:


> No it's not. Are you criticizing France or are you criticizing Tony Parker? You are criticizing a player and are saying he's not good all of the sudden because he has a few bad games playing in Euro Basket. Of course I care about how the USA fares in the Olympics, but I wasn't flipping out and calling Tim Duncan an overrated bum when they came up short.


Lol please find the post where I said Tony Parker is not good or an overrated bum. Actually I wrote the contrary, allow me to quote myself 



starvydas said:


> Sure he's an NBA player and a pretty good one too


What I said is that he is somewhat unidimensional, and as a Spurs fan I'm sure you can see the point I'm trying to make (and by the way I'm not flipping out, I'm just dissapointed because I know Tony is a good player that should lead his team.)
Anyway I don't believe what I just saw, France has just ousted Serbia on their home court. The real Tony showed up, he had only 13 points but came up with two key steals in the 4th and showed great composure under pressure. He also shot 5/6 from the FT line


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## DaBobZ (Sep 22, 2003)

At least TP did it ... I saw the game and somehow he carried this French team in crunch time. Only scored 13 pts but still had a huge impact taking care of the business in the clutch.
I don't know how many assists but I'll say at least 5.
Don't get me wrong Serbia is one of the best teams in Europe presently and certainly the best ever European team, they hosted this tournament so this is a huge win for France.
I'm glad TP behaved the way he did ... great win ...74 / 71.

Next level vs Lithuanina (w/o Jasikevicius/Big Z)


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## mauzer (Jun 7, 2005)

TP had huuuge game today. Very smart play, nice passes, steals, no stupid shots. Bravo. If he continues to play this way , i'll change my opinion about him :clap: ( But sam ehappened in Spurs, 1 great game and 5 dissapinting game after that, top pg's of the world don't dissapear)


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## DaBobZ (Sep 22, 2003)

mauzer said:


> TP had huuuge game today. Very smart play, nice passes, steals, no stupid shots. Bravo. If he continues to play this way , i'll change my opinion about him :clap: ( But sam ehappened in Spurs, 1 great game and 5 dissapinting game after that, top pg's of the world don't dissapear)


Gotta agree with that one

That beeing said he always played great for France in big games, he was great in the playoffs of Eurochamps in 03 and sucked in qualifying stage, a bit like this year.


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## KokoTheMonkey (Aug 4, 2003)

starvydas said:


> Lol please find the post where I said Tony Parker is not good or an overrated bum. Actually I wrote the contrary, allow me to quote myself
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Well, my point was pretty much proven after the reaction from Parker's game today. Look at the different tone you're talking about him now. In my opinion, you guys were going overboard about Parker just because of 3 games, and now the "real" Parker has shown up and what not. That's why it's best not to start judging a player after a few games.


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## mauzer (Jun 7, 2005)

KokoTheMonkey said:


> Well, my point was pretty much proven after the reaction from Parker's game today. Look at the different tone you're talking about him now. In my opinion, you guys were going overboard about Parker just because of 3 games, and now the "real" Parker has shown up and what not. That's why it's best not to start judging a player after a few games.


The point we all made is that Parker can play very good one game but heh will dissapear in long stretch after that. If he'd play 5 good games and 1 bad games would be great, but it is opposite. Parker is most overrated PG unless he proves different.


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## KokoTheMonkey (Aug 4, 2003)

mauzer said:


> The point we all made is that Parker can play very good one game but heh will dissapear in long stretch after that. If he'd play 5 good games and 1 bad games would be great, but it is opposite. Parker is most overrated PG unless he proves different.


Well, if that was your point then we were in agreement all along. (Except that last statement, I'm surely not in agreement with that.) 

For such an inconsistent player like Parker, it's best off to wait and just let the guy play before you jump to conclusions after 2-3 games. That's all. I'm not sure how he's the most overrated PG in the league, but if you want to believe that because of a few Euro Basket games by all means go ahead.


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## KokoTheMonkey (Aug 4, 2003)

http://www.woai.com/spurs/story.aspx?content_id=7C37196C-6614-41A9-9256-384A462C1B00




> NESHA STARCEVIC
> Associated Press
> 
> BELGRADE, Serbia-Montenegro - France beat defending champion Lithuania 63-47 Thursday to reach the European Championship semifinals behind Boris Diaw's 18 points and 11 rebounds and a strong game from Tony Parker.
> ...



11 points and 5 assists is nothing to get excited about, but it sounds as if Parker is performing a lot better now.


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## DaBobZ (Sep 22, 2003)

TP played a so so game but was huge once again in the clutch. He had a nice three and layup just when to finish off the Lithuanians. That said the mechanic of his shoot has somehow gotten worse IMHO. I don't know what he fixed with Chip so far but it seems like he simply throws it in the air sometimes. Hopefully it is just a visual illusion...


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## KokoTheMonkey (Aug 4, 2003)

DaBobZ said:


> TP played a so so game but was huge once again in the clutch. He had a nice three and layup just when to finish off the Lithuanians. That said the mechanic of his shoot has somehow gotten worse IMHO. I don't know what he fixed with Chip so far but it seems like he simply throws it in the air sometimes. Hopefully it is just a visual illusion...



Damn, I can't imagine it actually getting worse.


The thing I've always wondered about Parker's jumper is why he doesn't get more air under his shot. He has great hops, so why doesn't he get off the ground more? When he shoots it's all upper body, so I wonder if that's one of the things he's being taught.


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## DaBobZ (Sep 22, 2003)

It is strange Koko, I mean I imagined Chip would make his shot more classical, a pure follow through ala Grant Hill. Well it is nowhere near that at the moment.
And for you Spurs fan that didn't realize the consequences of the wins vs Serbia and Lithuania TP will play at the World championships next summer...


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## DaBobZ (Sep 22, 2003)

France looses again vs Greece but this time it wasn't a blowout... 67 / 66
TP & co will face the looser of the Germany Spain semi for the 3rd place game.


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## flip-flop (May 17, 2005)

Something is wrong with Parker. He should play a lot of better. I'm dissapointed.


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## DaBobZ (Sep 22, 2003)

He was the best player on the floor tonight... scored a key 3 in the last minute and two clutch FTs.
And TP wasn't given the ball at all later in the last minute, and RigauDON'T missed the late FTs not TP (no offense to Rigaudeau).


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## flip-flop (May 17, 2005)

Parker also missed 2 FTs in last minute. His FT % and tree point shot % are absolutely bad if you look at his statistic in whole tournment.
Tonight he showed better performance but the image stay the same for me. 
But I think the main reason is that he's just too tired and exhausted.


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## DaBobZ (Sep 22, 2003)

Agreed.


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## big_buff (Sep 25, 2005)

at least rasho is keeping in game shape


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## Matiz (Jun 5, 2003)

big_buff said:


> at least rasho is keeping in game shape


he is playing brilliant few minutes and than he turns into a brick-throwing-machine... unconsistant as hell...


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## KokoTheMonkey (Aug 4, 2003)

I saw on NBATV that Parker scored 25 points and lead France to a 3rd place finish over Spain. 


Where did those two fellas go who came in here talking mess about Parker after the first two games? If you know he's inconsistent, why fly off the handle after two games?


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## starvydas (Jul 16, 2002)

KokoTheMonkey said:


> I saw on NBATV that Parker scored 25 points and lead France to a 3rd place finish over Spain.
> 
> 
> Where did those two fellas go who came in here talking mess about Parker after the first two games? If you know he's inconsistent, why fly off the handle after two games?


Sorry, I don't spend my life on the Internet. And as a French fan, even though my country won a medal for the first time in 50 years, I haven't changed my position about TP. Like it or not it is blatant that Tony has one of the worst shooting form among all NBA guards, he simply doesn't finish his move (the poster that said he threw the ball in the air is spot on, it really looks this way). So he sent a prayer with each three he fired in this tournament (5/24 with the closer Euro line). During the second week it looked like he switched gears on offense and used his quickness better, which enabled him to get more assists and to draw more fouls. But you just don't waste so many free throws (16/28) unless your shot is not good or you crack under pressure. But to be fair, FT failure concerns the French team as a whole.
Also Tony was the true leader of that team in Sweden in 2003 whereas France had to turn to Boris Diaw to make plays in this tournament and he responded better to the task than Parker. You would expect someone who has played a major part in winning two NBA titles to take over things when they turn bad for you (à la Nowitzki for Germany) but Tony never showed he could do that. Actually he did it once when he made a three to give a 7 points lead to France in the semis with 1 minute. In the same minute he missed two FT (also made two) fouled a Greek with basket counting and threw an inbound pass in out of bounds... Then again I don't blame this defeat solely on Parker. Rigaudeau who's supposed to be the more experienced player along with Tony, and a pure shooter also choked big in the semis and in the tournament as a whole (6/26 3FG).

Tony stats in 7 games :

11.9ppg on 34.4% shooting, 57.1% FT, 2.3rpg, 2.8apg, 2.6 TOpg, 1.0 spg

P.S. If revealing a player's weakness or pointing out facts about a player you like is talking mess for you, you must have a lot of ennemies on this board.


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## DaBobZ (Sep 22, 2003)

starvydas I'll tell you that : Greece is a nice champion (of Europe) but as you did in soccer last year you were one of the worst winners of all time. Were is the beauty of the game? Tell me ? Even the Pistons play basketball with more offensive brilliance than you guys do. I'm sorry but that's truth... and its a fan of defensive basketball speaking. As for your comments on Parker they are meaningless. He's a great player like it or not, and certainly one of the 5 best driving PGs in this league. So please don't come in here and throw some sort of bull$hit up in the air like you did :naughty: 
Oh sorry I forgot there are no Greek players in nba right... well I'll give you that eventough not playing a nice game Greece is a very nice champion, a bit like last year in soccer.
But please don't come in here and criticize a nba player you have aabsolutely no clue about his game that is flat out bull****. All I know about Greek players is that half of them are named ...oulos something, then again that's about all the knowledge I have on your soccer team. Not my fault if your players do not play in nba or Juventus and Real Madrid... just a fact.


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## DaBobZ (Sep 22, 2003)

Last thing about TP we all agree on this board (regular not casual fans) what TP's weaknesses are today and we've never pretended his FT/ 3PT shooting hasn't decreased in the past years. Wouldn't be a problem to bring the threads back. Also Koko's topic about TP's perfomances prediction for next year has had no success at all, no replies still? Dunno but if you minded to check this board you would have understood we do not jump at you coz you criticize TP but coz you do it the wrong way. You sound too much as a hater IMHO.

P.S: Koko sorry for the late reaction of mine on this topic, I've just realized (and read) all the stuff that was said on TP, then again I agree with you at 99% on your reactions.


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## KokoTheMonkey (Aug 4, 2003)

Spend life on the internet? Sorry, I don't either. 

Parker isn't a perfect player, and he's not a great player either. He's got tons of flaws, and I don't really need someone to explain them to me. I've honestly probably have seen a lot more of him playing than you have in the last calendar year, so I know all about his game. I've never hyped him up as an elite player who is flawless, but I will defend him after every time he plays a few bad games here and there and people want to jump on him for being overrated. I'll go back and pull some comments that you made about Parker in this thread:



> Sure he's an NBA player and a pretty good one too, but to my mind his performance shows how unidimensional he can be, i.e. he relies on his speed and that's it.





> I'm so dissapointed by Tony right now. He let his team down big time, his performance is really unforgivable for a professionnal basketball player. I knew he was a bad shooter in the first place but his attempts are not even close. Brick after brick after brick... And the guy keeps shooting... If I were the French coach I would forbid him to shoot outside the paint, he is currently that bad.




Here's the bottom line. "Pointing out facts" doesn't equate to giving your opinion. Your opinion isn't a fact. The stats above are facts, but I've also given you stats that suggest that Parker is a pretty damn good player, and they happen to be of a larger sample size. Again, you can't point out any flaws in Parker's game that I haven't already seen. I'm not saying I'm superior to you, what I am saying is that I know enough about basketball and I've seen about 80% of all of Parker's NBA games these past two seasons, and I have seen enough of him to know the profile on his game. You can't point out flaws in his game that I'm already aware of, so you can take that "must have a lot of enemies" BS elsewhere. If you go through and offer your opinion and state it's a fact, then you'll encounter a lot of enemies too. For an undimensional guard who is one of the worst shooting PG's ever, I think he's faired pretty nicely in the NBA, no? So, when you watch 90-100 Spurs games this season, come by these boards afterwards and let's breakdown Parker's game, not after 6-7 games in a Eurobasket league. Why? Because 90-100 games is a much much much much larger sample size than 7 games.


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## KokoTheMonkey (Aug 4, 2003)

DaBobZ said:


> Last thing about TP we all agree on this board (regular not casual fans) what TP's weaknesses are today and we've never pretended his FT/ 3PT shooting hasn't decreased in the past years. Wouldn't be a problem to bring the threads back. Also Koko's topic about TP's perfomances prediction for next year has had no success at all, no replies still? *Dunno but if you minded to check this board you would have understood we do not jump at you coz you criticize TP but coz you do it the wrong way. You sound too much as a hater IMHO.*
> 
> P.S: Koko sorry for the late reaction of mine on this topic, I've just realized (and read) all the stuff that was said on TP, then again I agree with you at 99% on your reactions.



The bolded statement sums it up pretty nicely. If you want to criticize intelligently, go ahead, that's welcome, but coming in here and making broad generalizations about his game over 2-3 Eurobasket games is absurd in my opinion. I don't get offended when someone says Parker needs to work on his jumper and decision making, but I do get bothered when people claim he's undimensional and that he's a product of the Spurs' system.


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## DaBobZ (Sep 22, 2003)

Great post Koko :clap: -> the one before the one before but the last one was nice also 

Now starvydas enjoy the great win you just had !!! Greece won't win it all like presently all the time, so enjoy it while it's hot... Go in the bars for two days or something lol... is there a river down by your place ? lol.
And criticize TP as much as you want if he was Greek you might wet your pants watching him play in the nba (I became a Spurs fan when TP was 5... and he frustrates me more than anything at times) still it's good to have a French player with two nba titles (as I'm half French).


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## DaBobZ (Sep 22, 2003)

KokoTheMonkey said:


> I saw on NBATV that Parker scored 25 points and lead France to a 3rd place finish over Spain.


First medal in Euro championships for France since... 1959 or something (and probably in World Champs as well). Won the silver medal in the Olympics though (2000).


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## starvydas (Jul 16, 2002)

DaBobZ said:


> starvydas I'll tell you that : Greece is a nice champion (of Europe) but as you did in soccer last year you were one of the worst winners of all time. Were is the beauty of the game? Tell me ? Even the Pistons play basketball with more offensive brilliance than you guys do. I'm sorry but that's truth... and its a fan of defensive basketball speaking. As for your comments on Parker they are meaningless. He's a great player like it or not, and certainly one of the 5 best driving PGs in this league. So please don't come in here and throw some sort of bull**** up in the air like you did :naughty:
> Oh sorry I forgot there are no Greek players in nba right... well I'll give you that eventough not playing a nice game Greece is a very nice champion, a bit like last year in soccer.
> But please don't come in here and criticize a nba player you have aabsolutely no clue about his game that is flat out bull$hit. All I know about Greek players is that half of them are named ...oulos something, then again that's about all the knowledge I have on your soccer team. Not my fault if your players do not play in nba or Juventus and Real Madrid... just a fact.





I'm not Greek dude, check my location. I've never ever written something on Greek basketball on these boards, never ever supported their team. To put it simply, I don't give a rat's *** about Greek basketball and probably never will until they get a good Euro in the NBA. So what exactly is the point this post?





> So please don't come in here and throw some sort of bull$hit up in the air like you did :naughty: ; that is flat out bull****


Thank you for being so civil about what I write. Do you mind explaining yourself or are you going to respond each of my post by "it's bull****" ? Or is it because you haven't seen the games and can't counter what I wrote?


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## starvydas (Jul 16, 2002)

DaBobZ said:


> Great post Koko :clap: -> the one before the one before but the last one was nice also
> 
> Now starvydas enjoy the great win you just had !!! Greece won't win it all like presently all the time, so enjoy it while it's hot... Go in the bars for two days or something lol... is there a river down by your place ? lol.
> And criticize TP as much as you want if he was Greek you might wet your pants watching him play in the nba (I became a Spurs fan when TP was 5... and he frustrates me more than anything at times) still it's good to have a French player with two nba titles (as I'm half French).



WTF man? 

I AM NOT GREEK 
JE NE SUIS PAS GREC 
I AM FRENCH 
JE SUIS FRANCAIS

Is this some kind of joke?? I'm confused.


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## DaBobZ (Sep 22, 2003)

même pas...dsl gars :eek8:


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## starvydas (Jul 16, 2002)

KokoTheMonkey said:


> Parker isn't a perfect player, and he's not a great player either. He's got tons of flaws, and I don't really need someone to explain them to me. I've honestly probably have seen a lot more of him playing than you have in the last calendar year, so I know all about his game"


You are also a die-hard Spurs fan, which can bias your opinion about him.







"The stats above are facts, but I've also given you stats that suggest that Parker is a pretty damn good player, and they happen to be of a larger sample size. [/QUOTE]

They happen to be in different contexts: when Tony is not supposed to lead his team and make plays, when Tony has better players around him.


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## DaBobZ (Sep 22, 2003)

And what team do you support ? Lakers fan ? :krazy:


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## KokoTheMonkey (Aug 4, 2003)

starvydas said:


> You are also a die-hard Spurs fan, which can bias your opinion about him.


It can bias my opinion about him, but I don't let it. Parker is not an elite PG, but he's not a mediocre one either. I think that's a fair assessment of him. 







> They happen to be in different contexts: when Tony is not supposed to lead his team and make plays, when Tony has better players around him.


Okay, agreed. However, whether or not he's the first option, he's still a good player on his own.


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## starvydas (Jul 16, 2002)

KokoTheMonkey said:


> The bolded statement sums it up pretty nicely. If you want to criticize intelligently, go ahead, that's welcome, but coming in here and making broad generalizations about his game over 2-3 Eurobasket games is absurd in my opinion. I don't get offended when someone says Parker needs to work on his jumper and decision making, but I do get bothered when people claim he's undimensional and that he's a product of the Spurs' system.



Just wanted to make things straight

I have been registered on this site for 3 years and although I don't post as often as the majority, I have never had any problem with flaming, was never being labeled a player hater, never broken the board rules either. I try my best to make elaborate posts and so far I have never been blamed for trying to impose my point of view so I am worried about your comment about me not criticizing intelligently.

Yes, the first post I made in this thread was also my first post in the Spurs forum. Maybe I should have introduced myself first? I don't do that generally I think it is useless. I'm sort of an anarchist poster, I browse through forums and whenever I see a thread worth of my interest I post into. My first intention was actually to report how Tony was doing in the Euros as I had the opportunity to watch France games. In my first post I admit I probably did not choose the right words to describe Tony's performance and I can understand that some people have thought I made fun of him. I regret it, please believe that it was not my intention. However, to me, there is only thin line between saying "Tony shoots brick after brick" and "Tony has a bad jumper" and "Tony needs to work on his jumper" (I guess the latter is what you meant by intelligent criticism). To me, and I may be wrong, this is basically saying the same thing.

You blame me for making broad a generalization, when I say he is unidimensional. I am far from being a basketball expert but that's honestly what I saw in Tony's performance. A player whose offensive game relies almost exclusively on his capacity to go all the way to the basket (which is sadly what Tony did in the first week, ask anyone who has seen France's first three games) is unidimensional in my book. However, as I can't refute that you have seen him play a lot more than me lately and that you seem to be a knowledgeable guy, I will review my position about that. 
Part of the problem is also that IMHO you don't realize that the Euro champs is a major event in the basketball season. Winning a medal has a major impact on your country's basketball federation and on your prestige as a basketball country. On a personal level, it can draw attention from big clubs in Europe or the NBA if you do good. These are not just random games played in the summer.

Last thing is Tony being a product of the Spurs' system. From what I have seen, Tony plays better with the Spurs than in the national team. You mentionned his stats with both teams, I think they corroborate this point. There is an obvious contradiction there, since the level of an NBA game is much higher than that of an international game. Many guys that are role players in the NBA put up great stats with their country (perfect example of this is Boris Diaw, other examples are Gordan Giricek, Slava Medvedenko etc...). I tried to come up with an explanation of this contradiction, so I said that he missed Ginobili and Duncan because it was the most plausible cause to me. But I admit it can be something really different, mental or physical problems, adaptation, refs etc... that caused Tony to struggle so much during the first week.

So there you go, hope I have made myself clear.






P.S. I am not Greek


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## KokoTheMonkey (Aug 4, 2003)

Let me make myself clear: I'm not trying to hate on you or anything. I hope to see you post more around here, because you seem to be a knowledgeable poster. Hopefully we've got that clear, because I wasn't trying to flame you off this board or anything like that. I will admit that I let some fire off on you because of some of the things that mauzer said, so I apologize for that, but I was just annoyed by seeing so many people call out Parker after a few Eurobasket games. It wasn't just you or mauzer, it was several different places, so I saw a few posts about it in here and I kind of flipped out. 

Afterall, if we are all cheering/rooting for Parker to suceed, then what are we arguing about? He's not free of criticism either, but let's at least judge him by his entire career performance, not just what took place in Eurobasket.


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## Zalgirinis (Feb 18, 2003)

DaBobZ said:


> starvydas I'll tell you that : Greece is a nice champion (of Europe) but as you did in soccer last year you were one of the worst winners of all time. Were is the beauty of the game? Tell me ? Even the Pistons play basketball with more offensive brilliance than you guys do. I'm sorry but that's truth... and its a fan of defensive basketball speaking. As for your comments on Parker they are meaningless. He's a great player like it or not, and certainly one of the 5 best driving PGs in this league. So please don't come in here and throw some sort of bull$hit up in the air like you did :naughty:
> Oh sorry I forgot there are no Greek players in nba right... well I'll give you that eventough not playing a nice game Greece is a very nice champion, a bit like last year in soccer.
> But please don't come in here and criticize a nba player you have aabsolutely no clue about his game that is flat out bull****. All I know about Greek players is that half of them are named ...oulos something, then again that's about all the knowledge I have on your soccer team. Not my fault if your players do not play in nba or Juventus and Real Madrid... just a fact.


Im probably a bit late to this thread, but I was all last 2 weeks in Serbia watching Eurobasket live and just now saw this. Also I dont want to get edited, but DaBobZ you do understand that you look like an idiot attacking French poster with anti-greek BS. That was even funny in some way... 



DaBobZ said:


> France looses again vs Greece but this time it wasn't a blowout... 67 / 66
> TP & co will face the looser of the Germany Spain semi for the 3rd place game.


It wasnt blowout, but it was even worser for France to lose in such way in semifinal game. France led with 7 with 47 seconds to go, but managed to lose with making whole row of incredibly stupid decisions. Like fouling a guy shooting 3pt or fouling in the same second greeks made inbound pass when your goal is to kill time, etc etc. Parker's bad inbound pass didnt help either. So saying that not getting blowed out in semifinal is something good is very ignorant...


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## DaBobZ (Sep 22, 2003)

Zalgirinis said:


> Im probably a bit late to this thread, but I was all last 2 weeks in Serbia watching Eurobasket live and just now saw this. Also I dont want to get edited, but DaBobZ you do understand that you look like an idiot attacking French poster with anti-greek BS. That was even funny in some way...


Nevermind... I'm least I'm not bashing a Greek player on a Greek boards.
I'll jump at anyone bashing TP or any Spur player on a Spurs board, so basicly you guys were the offenders. But it's just a talk and I didn't go as far as saying someone was an idiot.
We don' need TP bashers in here but I reckon I pushed it a little too far.


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## DaBobZ (Sep 22, 2003)

Zalgirinis said:


> So saying that not getting blowed out in semifinal is something good is very ignorant...


You have a bad habbit of interpreting what I wrote... where did I say it was something good? I wrote :
"At least it wasn't a blowout"

If you wanna have a discussion with me please don't get into my shoes and make the sentences for me. 

please no mask cursing


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## TheRoc5 (Mar 1, 2005)

im glad to see parker back. he finaly started playing like an allstar but was a little to late. 25pts and 5assits in the final gm to get the bronze. im not sure if he didnt play well because he was rusty, coach, teamates ect but the last couple of gms he played great so im eager to see how hes gonna do this yr. congrats parker on qualifying for the world champion ship next yr


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