# Okafor or Howard



## CAnthony15 (Jun 14, 2003)

which one will go number one? I think that if Atlanta gets the number one pick they pikc Howard b/c of the local connection. Washington will pick Okafor b/c howard is exactly the same as Brown. Orlando and Chicago could go either way.


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## Vinsanity (May 28, 2002)

Okafor


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## kcchiefs-fan (Oct 28, 2002)

If it weren't for Okafor's seemingly constant back troubles I'd take him. I don't think his ceiling is quite as high as Howard's (though it might be, he is awfully athletic), but he's about as can't miss as someone can be. Decent height (though I haven't heard a definitive answer yet on how tall he is, my guess is about 6'9'', which would suffice at the 4, especially in the East), good athleticism, great head on his shoulders, great tenacity, what's not to like?


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## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

Startin to like Okafor more after last night. That was an amazing performance, blockin that shot in OT even with the bad back.... Dayum. Can't go wrong with either one


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## Johnjo (Jun 4, 2002)

If the Bulls get the first pick they either trade it for a SF, or definately take Okafor and see if they can get something good for Chandler. No way they take Howard.


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## freakofnature (Mar 30, 2003)

Bulls - Okafor
Magic - Okafor
Hawks - Howard
Celts - Howard
Washington - Howard
Pheonix - trade back
Philly - Howard
Clipps - trade back
Golden State - trade back
Utah - Okafor/Howard
Seattle - Okafor
Blazers - trade back


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## prerak (Oct 22, 2003)

I disagree with Washington and Philly taking Howard.


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## Warriors4Life (Jan 1, 2003)

Any team that passes up on Okafor is insane. If I had the #1 pick I'd take him without even blinking.

Who knows what the NBA scouts are thinking though, but I still think Okafor goes #1.


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## MJG (Jun 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>prerak</b>!
> I disagree with Washington and Philly taking Howard.


I'm with you on the Wizards. I can't speak for the team obviously, but there's not a fan I've seen that seems to even consider Howard over Okafor at this point.


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## dmilesai (Jul 19, 2002)

For Philly, I would definitely take Okafor. Okafor and Dalembert down low.  With Okafor, Dalembert, Snow, and even Iverson (decent defender) we would be a great defensive team, like the Eastern Conference champ Sixers a couple years back.


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## FanOfAll8472 (Jun 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>prerak</b>!
> I disagree with Washington and Philly taking Howard.


I can't see WAS taking Howard over Okafor, but I can see Philly taking Howard over Okafor.


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## freakofnature (Mar 30, 2003)

Thanks for the comments, fellas.

I just decided for each team if they need offense or defense more down low. I thought both the Wizards and Sixers would benefit more with an offensive upgrade in the paint.


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## RP McMurphy (Jul 17, 2003)

I think the Sixers are one of the LEAST likely teams to pick Okafor over Howard. Howard is the potential future superstar and dominant frontcourt scorer and rebounder, but who will take time to develop and may become a bust. Okafor is almost sure to be a great role player at center, but who won't be a high scorer in the NBA. If I'm a horrible team, I take the potential superstar over the surefire great role player EVERY SINGLE TIME, UNLESS I already have someone there who will do the things that Howard does if he pans out.

Out of the teams who may be lottery teams, the Wizards have Kwame Brown, the Bulls have Eddy Curry, the Blazers have Zach Randolph, the Raptors have Chris Bosh, the Suns have Amare Stoudemire, and the Clippers have Elton Brand. So they should all either take Okafor or trade the pick.

The Sixers already have Samuel Dalembert as a shot blocker, rebounder, and post presence at center, but they really need a frontcourt player who can score. Kenny Thomas doesn't cut it. They haven't had one for years and it's killing them. Take Dwight Howard for sure.

Hawks - Howard
Magic - Howard
Celtics - Howard
Sixers - Howard
Golden State - Howard
Jazz - Howard
Sonics - Howard
Cavaliers - Howard

Wizards - Okafor
Bulls - Okafor
Blazers - Okafor
Raptors - Okafor

Suns - trade
Clippers - trade


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## prerak (Oct 22, 2003)

Artestfan, the reason why I see our management taking Okafor is threefold. One, I disagree with your assessment of Okafor as a role player. Two, he brings fan based respectability to an organization that next year is going to be dealing with some serious ticket problems. And third: Samuel Dalembert. Okafor is the perfect complement to Dalembert, who needs a more physical defender to cover the strong side. The very idea of a Okafor/Dalembert frontcourt makes me drool.


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## rebelsun (Nov 25, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>prerak</b>!
> The very idea of a Okafor/Dalembert frontcourt makes me drool.


That would be an awesome defensive post duo. :yes: 60 mins together = 5bpg.

Back to the topic, I think it would be a rare scenario for a team to keep the top pick and choose Howard over Okafor. Maybe a team that already is very deep in the post, say the Kings(?), although I don't know how they'd get the 1st pick. I think it's about a 95% chance Okafor goes #1. Seasoned, dominant post players are a rare breed.


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## Big John (Sep 11, 2002)

Everyone assumes that Howard has the "upside" since he is younger. In fact, Okafor has improved significantly every year he has been at UConn. Okafor has an incredible work ethic. Two years ago he had no offensive game. Now he's decent. In two years he will be excellent. If he has to shoot 1000 jumpers a day to become a good jump shooter, Okafor will shoot them. If the coach installs a new defensive scheme, Howard will pick up on it immediately and be in the right position.

Will Howard do those things? I don't know-- but I know Okafor will do them.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

I know you guys really like Okafor but on Saturday he was having back spasms. This is the 2nd time he has had back spasms this year (the first in a loss to Georgia Tech). 

He better be able to prove that his back will not start becoming a problem, or it will effect his position as the No. 1 pick. No one wants to pick a guy No. 1 with a bad back unless you are T-Mac.


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## Coatesvillain (Jul 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>prerak</b>!
> Artestfan, the reason why I see our management taking Okafor is threefold. One, I disagree with your assessment of Okafor as a role player. Two, he brings fan based respectability to an organization that next year is going to be dealing with some serious ticket problems. And third: Samuel Dalembert. Okafor is the perfect complement to Dalembert, who needs a more physical defender to cover the strong side. The very idea of a Okafor/Dalembert frontcourt makes me drool.


I don't think any draft pick would help solve the ticket problems in anyway, unless they turn out to be a stud presence right away. I like Okafor, but I'm not sure if he's as good as some people think he is, before I heard comparisons to Alonzo Mourning, and while Okafor is a player, I doubt he'll ever be as good as Alonzo was.

If I'm the Sixers, honestly, I probably go with the unknown. More than anything we need scoring in the low post, and the idea of Howard possibly being a dominant player sometime in the future, would lure me into taking him. Might not sound smart, but it's that current bias of "College player A hit his ceiling, High School player B has infinite potential", and I have to admit I've fallen in like the majority into thinking that.

With the Sixers at that ultimate fork in the road where they're looking to be bad, whether or not they make a move, for once they might have to make a more dynamic choice, especially since the core of this team figures to be torn apart come the offseason.


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## ucdawg12 (Jun 3, 2003)

Okafors has yet to hit his ceiling and you can only hope that the HS players develope the dominant offense and defense Okafor has already proven he has. Okafor is automatic in the inside I guess other people havent seen him play that much because if you did you would know he is the best player and his ceiling is as high as howards if not higher. Seriously people see 6'11 HS player and all the sudden he has so much potential when you have a guy that already has everything you want and more.


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## Like A Breath (Jun 16, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>PhillyPhanatic</b>!
> 
> If I'm the Sixers, honestly, I probably go with the unknown. More than anything we need scoring in the low post, and the idea of Howard possibly being a dominant player sometime in the future, would lure me into taking him. Might not sound smart, but it's that current bias of "College player A hit his ceiling, High School player B has infinite potential", and I have to admit I've fallen in like the majority into thinking that.


Why don't you think that Emeka can't be a dominant inside player? Do you realize that he's averaging 19 ppg as a junior in the Big East while Howard averaged 19 as a junior playing against high school kids? Just today he scored 25 points on a lot of sweet jump hooks and jumpers and almost fouled out the whole Seton Hall frontline.

I've seen Dwight play twice and he hasn't impressed me with his poor positioning and lack of focus. I was disgusted when he jacked up a three while his team was up ten, assuming that they'd win. They later went on to narrowly lose. People just assume he has more potential because he is taller and younger, but he has a lot of work ahead of him.


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## Vinsanity (May 28, 2002)

why would anyone choose Howard over Okafor.....Okafor is a sure thing


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## kcchiefs-fan (Oct 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> I know you guys really like Okafor but on Saturday he was having back spasms. This is the 2nd time he has had back spasms this year (the first in a loss to Georgia Tech).
> 
> He better be able to prove that his back will not start becoming a problem, or it will effect his position as the No. 1 pick. No one wants to pick a guy No. 1 with a bad back unless you are T-Mac.


Exactly, this is the worry. You don't want another Caron Butler situation. I love Okafor, he's a fantastic player and seems like a fantastic kid with an insatiable work ethic, but this could be a problem for him. I hope he can get them under control, see a specialist in the offseason and see if they can discover the problem and fix it. He may end up dropping a bit due to them, some team may get awfully lucky in the long wrong.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>kcchiefs-fan</b>!
> 
> 
> Exactly, this is the worry. You don't want another Caron Butler situation. I love Okafor, he's a fantastic player and seems like a fantastic kid with an insatiable work ethic, but this could be a problem for him. I hope he can get them under control, see a specialist in the offseason and see if they can discover the problem and fix it. He may end up dropping a bit due to them, some team may get awfully lucky in the long wrong.


Even tonight he was talking to the trainers saying his back stiffened up and he was noticeably limping. Everytime someone mentions it, he kind of says it's no big deal, but I bet scouts have got to notice that he seems to have back problems. 

As we know back problems can keep you out for god knows how long. :no:


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## Max Payne (Mar 2, 2004)

I watched the Seton Hall game today and all I can say is that to me, Okafor represents the next generation of post players. The kid is 6'9" and 250 pounds of pure muscle. Every time Setton Hall kicked the ball inside, there was a rejection or Okafor's very presence was enough to alter a seemingly easy shot to a total miss. For the most part, Setton Hall tried playing the perimeter game, only taking care to pass it inside when they thought they had the advantage at the post. Guess what. Okafor still ended up with 4 blocks and 15 rebounds, testament to his uncanny ability. He doesnt fall for silly head fakes and he will wait to the last moment and then jump with cat-like grace and agility to reject an opposing post player with a block that would bring tears to Ben Wallace's eyes. His athletic ability alone makes him a rebound machine and I won't even start about his knowlegde of positioning....
On the offensive end he's an economy player. You won't exactly see him pull off "a Garnett" and float to the baseline and release a fadeaway, but he will back his man down, drop a step with unbelievable speed, whirl around and land a baby hook or a soft jumper. To top it all off the kid's got all the talent in the world to boot but let's not forget that he can and will practice to death to bring a sense of perfection to his game. His work ethic is unquestionable and everyone is quick to heap praise on his great work habits. I haven't seen much of Dwight Howard, but with Okafor's credentials, you'd really be hard-pressed to find a team that would pass up an opportunity to draft this kid, who I feel is among those who will soon mold the future of the NBA. 
Lastly, there is no way on Earth that Emeka will be a role-player. Anyone who has really watched him play would know that he will be a star be it college basketball or the NBA. Nuff said.


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## azirishmusic (Feb 25, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Max Payne</b>!
> I watched the Seton Hall game today and all I can say is that to me, Okafor represents the next generation of post players. The kid is 6'9" and 250 pounds of pure muscle. Every time Setton Hall kicked the ball inside, there was a rejection or Okafor's very presence was enough to alter a seemingly easy shot to a total miss. For the most part, Setton Hall tried playing the perimeter game, only taking care to pass it inside when they thought they had the advantage at the post. Guess what. Okafor still ended up with 4 blocks and 15 rebounds, testament to his uncanny ability. He doesnt fall for silly head fakes and he will wait to the last moment and then jump with cat-like grace and agility to reject an opposing post player with a block that would bring tears to Ben Wallace's eyes. His athletic ability alone makes him a rebound machine and I won't even start about his knowlegde of positioning....
> On the offensive end he's an economy player. You won't exactly see him pull off "a Garnett" and float to the baseline and release a fadeaway, but he will back his man down, drop a step with unbelievable speed, whirl around and land a baby hook or a soft jumper. To top it all off the kid's got all the talent in the world to boot but let's not forget that he can and will practice to death to bring a sense of perfection to his game. His work ethic is unquestionable and everyone is quick to heap praise on his great work habits. I haven't seen much of Dwight Howard, but with Okafor's credentials, you'd really be hard-pressed to find a team that would pass up an opportunity to draft this kid, who I feel is among those who will soon mold the future of the NBA.
> Lastly, there is no way on Earth that Emeka will be a role-player. Anyone who has really watched him play would know that he will be a star be it college basketball or the NBA. Nuff said.


I only caught part of the game. For a guy with back problems he seemed pretty dominant to me.

It will be interesting to see how well Howard deals with the team try outs this spring. He is supposed to be a great athlete and a potentially dominant player, but he will have to be extraordinary for anyone to pass on Okafor to take him.


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

Phoenix would take Dwight Howard. Once his body fills out more he should be able to play with Amare at the 4/5.

He has more size than Okafor.

I don't think Okafor is the next Ben Wallace. They are about the same size but Wallace is stronger and more athletic.
Okafor reminds me of Malik Rose as much as Ben Wallace....


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## Coatesvillain (Jul 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Like A Breath</b>!
> Why don't you think that Emeka can't be a dominant inside player? Do you realize that he's averaging 19 ppg as a junior in the Big East while Howard averaged 19 as a junior playing against high school kids? Just today he scored 25 points on a lot of sweet jump hooks and jumpers and almost fouled out the whole Seton Hall frontline.
> 
> I've seen Dwight play twice and he hasn't impressed me with his poor positioning and lack of focus. I was disgusted when he jacked up a three while his team was up ten, assuming that they'd win. They later went on to narrowly lose. People just assume he has more potential because he is taller and younger, but he has a lot of work ahead of him.


What were Emeka's averages his junior year of HS, at that his freshman year of college? I'm not holding that against Emeka since he's a great college player, and will please whoever drafts him, but I just don't see him becoming a great player on the next level. If I remember right, this is the NBA draft we're talking about and it's not often that teams will go for the sure thing rather than the risk of something great.

It's not fair to hold Howard's progress up to what Emeka has right now, since if Howard was taken first he'd be taken on account of the unknown of what he will accomplish.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Max Payne</b>!
> Lastly, there is no way on Earth that Emeka will be a role-player. Anyone who has really watched him play would know that he will be a star be it college basketball or the NBA. Nuff said.


I don't know how you can say this with such confidence considering there is a dearth of big men in the college game and considering that Seton Hall's best big man (Kelly Whitney) is an undersized four man. It's not like Okafor is dominating against the best of the best in the college ranks. If you think he is going to come in and dominate on the defensive end right away, you got another thing coming. 

The NBA is the league where big men get dunked on. Okafor is going to struggle banging with grown men day in and day out, especially now that it is known that he does have back ailments.


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## sov82 (Nov 5, 2003)

*hi*

Okafor made Sean May look like a walk-on two straight years so I dont know how you can say that Okafor hasn't dominated the better College Players. He also had a huge game last year in the NCAA tournament against Texas's frontline when it was him vs. Texas's frontline as UCONN only had freshmen bigmen last year (White and Armstrong). 

Last year, Okafor struggled a little playing against BIG big men...when I say big, I mean weight wise. This year, he no longer has that problem. Last night, Okafor took many hits to his chest from Pitt's players down low. Okafor didn't budge...and this was even when his back was irratated. Moreover, Emeka has demonstrated he has the ability to effectively defend the four position outside on the perimeter this year. He shut down Warrick when he was defending him and less a few great shots by Gomes, he shut Gomes down as well.

Dont forget, his back problem isn't a structural problem. Its an irratation issue, not a bone issue. Thats important.


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## OZZY (Jun 14, 2002)

sov82 are you Emeka's mother? Or agent? Seriously that is all you post about, defending or hyping his game. 

True he is a very good player and somone that has that has good offense skills, rebounding skills and shot blocking skills will do well in the league. But I am not ready to say he will be a All Star PF.


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## sov82 (Nov 5, 2003)

*Ozzy*

Did I say he would be an all-star in my post? Did I say I would even take Okafor over Howard? Did Okafor NOT dominate Sean May two years in a row (Emeka: 29pts, 13Rebounds, 6blocks, 3 Steals vs May: 8pts, 11rebounds, 1block, 0 Steals, 4 Fouls)? Is Emeka's injury really a structural problem and NOT an irratation? Did Emeka NOT struggle last year against big big men? Has Emeka NOT improved in those aspects? Did Warrick NOT disappear in the 2nd half of the UCONN game this year when Emeka was guarding him.

Please Ozzy, point out something that I said in my post that was wrong. Back it up with evidence, not your X-Ray vision please? I've seen every game Emeka has played since he was a Freshmen including every single home game this year. I comment on what I know. I know Big East Basketball. I don't comment on Howard because I haven't seen him play. Maybe you should take this into consideration before you open your mouth and spew the garbage that comes out of it. 

Say hi to Rosey for me ok?


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## OZZY (Jun 14, 2002)

> I've seen every game Emeka has played since he was a Freshmen including every single home game this year.


 Yeah because you his mother and you watch every game.

If you only know Big East basketball then are you not a little bit biased? 

Sorry to say but Emeka out playing Sean May is not at all impressive. 


I am somewhat skeptical of a person that only comments on one player for the most part. For example if you had 25 marbles and you only saw one of those marbles, yet you said without question the marble you saw is the best, I don’t think that carries much merit. Sure you didn’t say he is the best but you act like he is Gods gift to basketball because he is the only player you defend. What you have made 35 posts. Were all of them about Emeka Okafor or just 2/3 of them?


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## sov82 (Nov 5, 2003)

*hi*

I said Big East Basketball...ask about another player...Ask about Gomes, Warrick, Gordon, etc and if I feel I have something to contribute, I'll post about them to. You can say all I do is post about Emeka but I have never started a thread. I have only replied to people's questions or comments.

I watch the other conferances on TV regularly but I have not seen the players in person for the most part. I don't post unless I have seen the players first hand because there is alot more to the game than instant replays.

And no, Im not his Mom. I'm his classmate and he'll be graduating with me this fall. Unlike you, he doesn't think he is God's gift to this planet. 

Here Ozzy is this what you want? I'm sorry for being privledged enough to see the best college basketball player day in and day out this year. I'm sorry for having the opportunity to take classes with one of the greatest student atheletes in our time. I'm sorry for rooting for a genuinally good kid.

There, I'm glad your happy.


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## OZZY (Jun 14, 2002)

> And no, Im not his Mom. I'm his classmate and he'll be graduating with me this fall. Unlike you, he doesn't think he is God's gift to this planet.


 Thank you for sharing that, you are very privileged to know Emeka. The truth comes out, that is all I want. And you do have a right to get mad when someone says something bad about Emeka because you personally know the guy, I will take that into consideration. Thanks again for telling the truth.


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## ucdawg12 (Jun 3, 2003)

OZZY have you even see Emeka play? sov comments, here while you may think they are biased, are spot on, there is no need to embellish it because its as good as it sounds. Emeka is not just a big man who dunks and gets some blocks, his hook shots, turn around jumpers, power and even 15 footers are outstanding. He can play he's not just an athlete that has happened to get all these points by luck! Emeka is a truly dominant offensive threat whose game improved from his Freshman to his Junior year, even as a sophmore he had a great offensive game. His only flaw, and I mean only, are freethrows but even his form on them is perfect its just a matter of time before he breaks through the mental block in his head(he hits over 80% in practice)


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## OZZY (Jun 14, 2002)

Ok I have obviously see him play many times.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ucdawg12</b>!
> OZZY have you even see Emeka play? sov comments, here while you may think they are biased, are spot on, there is no need to embellish it because its as good as it sounds. Emeka is not just a big man who dunks and gets some blocks, his hook shots, turn around jumpers, power and even 15 footers are outstanding. He can play he's not just an athlete that has happened to get all these points by luck! Emeka is a truly dominant offensive threat whose game improved from his Freshman to his Junior year, even as a sophmore he had a great offensive game. His only flaw, and I mean only, are freethrows but even his form on them is perfect its just a matter of time before he breaks through the mental block in his head(he hits over 80% in practice)


The only problem I have with this is that practice does not make a game. Tim Duncan makes 85% of his FT's in practice, but if you are shooting 60% in the games, does it really matter what happens in practice.

Oh and you said Okafor is making 15 footers, I live in Big East country and see every game the Huskies play. When has he been making 15 footers. I am not saying that he is not worthy of being a top 2 pick, but I am also not sold on him automatically becoming great, because the NBA is a whole new ballgame. 

A guy like Michael Sweetney used to take Okafor to the butter and now he is an avg. player for the Knicks. I think post players are the hardest to gauge because if they don't continue to expand their games (unless they are 7'0) they are gonna get crushed down low. The PF's in this league are no joke. They are fierce.


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## sov82 (Nov 5, 2003)

*Jumpers*

Okafor probably hasn't taken a shot outside of 12feet all year because its not part of UCONN's game plan. I'd say he makes around 50% of his 12 footers this year. Last year, Emeka probably didnt take a single jumper all year.

In warmups, he does take 18 footers and makes about 2/3s of them. Of course, this is just warmups and its hardly game conditions so who knows how well Mek would do from beyond 12 feet at this point in his career. It does show that he does have the stroke though. Emeka also has incredible foot speed and is one of the best hedging big men in college basketball. He has the footspeed to guard big east guards (see end of Villanova game where he slipped & was playing with back pain and still managed to block the game winning dunk)

Remember, Emeka is stil growing as a player. Can a scout reasonably project that Emeka will be able to make free throws better in the future and mid-ranger jumpers? At his current progression rate combined with his fundamentals, I believe the answer is yes.

As for Sweetney, he played Emeka very competitively but he hardly owned Emeka. I dont have the stats off hand but as I remember it, the two players basically canceled each other out. Emeka is much stronger this year than last year however and as I mentioned, last year he wasn't strong enough to guard the bigger big east big men effectively. This year he has the strength to guard those type of players.

Is Emeka a can't miss super-star? No. Is Emeka the best big man coming out of college since Duncan...probably. (When I say best, I mean ready to contribute out of the gate)


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

*Re: Jumpers*



> Originally posted by <b>sov82</b>!
> 
> Is Emeka a can't miss super-star? No. Is Emeka the best big man coming out of college since Duncan...probably. (When I say best, I mean ready to contribute out of the gate)


Cough cough, Elton Brand.


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## sov82 (Nov 5, 2003)

*hi*

I honestly dont remeber exactly what type of face up game Elton had when he left school...If I remember right, it was more advance than Emeka's at this stage though....So yes, Elton's offensive game was slightly more advanced than Emeka's at this stage..

Brand's States in 98-99
98-99 Duke 29.3 62.0%FG 9.8RBS 17.7PTS


Defensively, Emeka is far superior.

Defintely debatable though and thanks for bringing his name up.


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## Kezersoze (Mar 3, 2004)

By the way how good is ben gordon? i havent got a chance to see him play. also cant wait to see duke play tonight on espn, i want to see why some ppl call leol the next grant hill! personally i would take okafor in a second over howard, howard is just too much of an unknown too me. the last thing the nba needs is another 6-10 perimeter player that cant play the post. Orlando/washington/bulls need a beast downlow to send stuff back!


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> By the way how good is ben gordon? i havent got a chance to see him play. also cant wait to see duke play tonight on espn, i want to see why some ppl call leol the next grant hill! personally i would take okafor in a second over howard, howard is just too much of an unknown too me. the last thing the nba needs is another 6-10 perimeter player that cant play the post. Orlando/washington/bulls need a beast downlow to send stuff back!


Gordon is really good but he is suffering IMO because Taliek Brown has been horrible this year (man he has been a bust out of HS). It would have been better for the Huskies if Marcus Williams didn't have academic problems and Gordon wouldn't be moving on the ball and off the ball so much. He will be fine as a PG prospect.

Luol Deng is not the next Grant Hill. Just because he plays for Duke doesn't mean that is what his game is like. First he rarely passes the ball. If he is near the basket or alone with a defender 9 out of 10 times he is shooting. I was screaming during the Duke-FSU game on Sunday for Deng to pass the ball to Duhon because he kept turning it over and forcing shots (even though some went in). He still plays like a freshman and needs to incorporate more team in his game. 



> I honestly dont remeber exactly what type of face up game Elton had when he left school...If I remember right, it was more advance than Emeka's at this stage though....So yes, Elton's offensive game was slightly more advanced than Emeka's at this stage..


Brand played on the deepest Duke team in a decade w/ Battier, Avery, Langdon, Maggette, Carrawell & Nate James (based off of sheer talent). It just so happens that Calhoun outcoached Coach K by denying Brand the ball the entire game and fouling him (even though some of them were not called, I have the tape). 

I was only saying Brand because you say that Emeka is the best big man to come out since Duncan and that is just not true. Elton Brand was a 20-10 guy from the start. In your mind do you really believe that Emeka Okafor will be a 20-10 guy from the start and Brand left after his sophomore year. He also gets over 2 blocks a game in the NBA.


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## sov82 (Nov 5, 2003)

*ya*

Ya you're defintely right offensively. I'm not sure anyone had Elton projected out of college as 20/10. I think people thought he could do that in time but not in his first year. He's defintely a player. No, I dont think Emeka will do 20/10 either. I think if Emeka averages 16/11 in this first year, teams will be extremely happy with that production considering his defense. 14/10 would make teams happy. Anything less than that, I think Emeka would disappoint in his first year. 

As far as Ben Gordon, I really wouldn't put the blame on Taliek. Yes, Gordon's had trouble getting open for 3s this year because teams play so far back off Brown due to his lack of outside shooting. Ben Gordon has disappointed Ben Gordon this year. He has admitted to being distracted by the NBA. He says he is over that now...and he has played extremely well in the last two games. He also suffered from having a wear a mask and that took away his driving game.

Remember, Ben was UCONNs best player last year. Emeka's game has advanced on the court faster than Ben's. Ben is defintely physically ready. He has unlimited potential according to Calhoun. If Ben gets his mental aspect of his game under control, he is defintely a top ten pick.


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## rynobot (Oct 10, 2002)

*Re: Re: Jumpers*



> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> 
> 
> Cough cough, Elton Brand.


I was thinking Elton Brand too. Emeaka is a taller version of Elton Brand!


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

Emeka isn't taller than Brand and offensively he isn't as good.

Emeka isn't shooting jumpers because it is not in their gameplan? Ever thought why it isn't part of their gameplan?

Emeka is a very good team defender in college but defense changes like night and day from college to NBA. No more short undersized players that let Okafor block some weak soft attempts.

Emeka will definately go top 3 but future allstar? Not sold. In the West, never.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> Emeka isn't taller than Brand and offensively he isn't as good.
> 
> Emeka isn't shooting jumpers because it is not in their gameplan? Ever thought why it isn't part of their gameplan?
> ...


I'm not saying this either. You are taking the extreme opposite side of things. In the West, I also don't think he will be an all-star but what are we talking about here, immediately or 5-7 years down the line. In either conference he is going to have competition for the All-Star game. 

West (forwards) - Gasol, Randolph, KG, Amare, Duncan, Melo, Matrix, Peja, AK-47, Maggette, Brand, Webber, Nene, Lewis, Dirk

East (forwards) - Martin, J O'Neal, Artest, Odom, Jefferson, Boozer, Bosh

The East is much easier for him, but there are also a lot of young guys in the East that are still itching to bust out like Al Harrington, Tyson Chandler, Kwame Brown, Darko Millicic. I think it is more than likely he gets drafted by an Eastern Conference team. However, if someone puts him at Center they run the risk of ruining his career. He needs to be a PF at the next level. Just remember that Kenyon Martin was a tremendous shot-blocker in college too.


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## rynobot (Oct 10, 2002)

Elton Brand is 6'8" or shorter depending on who you ask in the NBA. Emeka is atleast 6'9" but we will find out for shore when he is measured at the Chicago Pre-Draft camp.


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## sov82 (Nov 5, 2003)

*hi*

Why would he take an 18foot jump shot when UCONN has the ability to get him the ball low where he makes over 60% of his shots. Why would Emeka stand at the three point line when he is the best rebounder in college basketball?

About Emeka's shot blocking, far and away the majority of Emeka's blocks come from men he is guarding one on one. UCONN almost never double teams and the team trusts their post players to guard the opponents players one on one.

As far as height goes, I don't believe you have to be the tallest person on the court to block shots. Its about timing and speed getting off the floor.

I have a poster of Emeka with a "ruler to measure your height". He is right around the 6'10" line. He has shoes on.


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## rynobot (Oct 10, 2002)

*Re: hi*



> Originally posted by <b>sov82</b>!
> 
> 
> I have a poster of Emeka with a "ruler to measure your height". He is right around the 6'10" line. He has shoes on.


I would not consider that the most accurate way of measuring his height. We really will have to wait untill the Chicago Pre-Draft camp to see his official height.


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## sov82 (Nov 5, 2003)

*hi*

I know...just saying he is around 6'9-6'10


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## ucdawg12 (Jun 3, 2003)

Hong Kong, you are not in Big East country any more and as a BC fan you should know this, dont act like you honestly care enough to watch big east games cause you know exactly what your schools agenda is, and all of BCs fans hate the BE and have a bias against it even though they are still in it. The fact that you say Taliek has been having a horrible year shows you have no idea what you are talking about, he has played great this year it has been Ben Gordon who has been having the subpar year, the past 2 games though he has picked it up and played better. Please dont throw me some stats that say BG is scoring more and shooting well because if you WATCHED the games you would know he has been in a rather long slump and its NOT because of Taliek. Ben has at times been too unaggressive and takes illadvised shots when he feels he needs to do more. 

Okafor has hit 15 jumpers(where did it all the sudden become 15 become 18?) of course he is not going to take them the majority of the time because most of the time hes in the post but I have seen on more than a few occassions he has been open at 15 feet and drilled the shot. I seriously dont see any argument for Howard in why hes a better player. Okafor has it ALL, his offensive game, which some people who dont even watch the games(OZZY) yet claim they do, say is not good. Dont even try to tell me you watch him because anyone that does knows how dominant he is inside. I wish he would touch the ball in the post everytime down the floor because he is unstoppable. He is not smaller than brand he is taller. He is 6'9 1/2 in socks and brand is 6'8 in shoes. His defense is better than Brand. Howard is just a kid right now and a team can only hope that he gains the arsenal Okafor has. Man, people dont even see Howard play often yet they make the assumption that since he is 6'11 and ranked the best HS player that he is automatically better then a player who they claim to see so much more of who has shown he is better than Howard


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## ucdawg12 (Jun 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>
> A guy like Michael Sweetney used to take Okafor to the butter and now he is an avg. player for the Knicks.


Okay, wow Okafor was a freshman when they played and Sweeney had an outstanding 16 points. Oh and even better he was 3-12 from the field! Against a freshman. Wow! I guess its impossible to a player to improve from a freshman to junior? Or was that more like a blind statement that you hoped would catch on in your ill-fated argument?


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## ucdawg12 (Jun 3, 2003)

> Emeka is a very good team defender in college but defense changes like night and day from college to NBA. No more short undersized players that let Okafor block some weak soft attempts.


Okafor does not just manage to block weak shots, his blocking is a science, a skill, not luck. He is certainly not make those blocks because those 4'11 centers are throwing balls into his hand.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ucdawg12</b>!
> Hong Kong, you are not in Big East country any more and as a BC fan you should know this, dont act like you honestly care enough to watch big east games cause you know exactly what your schools agenda is, and all of BCs fans hate the BE and have a bias against it even though they are still in it. The fact that you say Taliek has been having a horrible year shows you have no idea what you are talking about, he has played great this year it has been Ben Gordon who has been having the subpar year, the past 2 games though he has picked it up and played better. Please dont throw me some stats that say BG is scoring more and shooting well because if you WATCHED the games you would know he has been in a rather long slump and its NOT because of Taliek. Ben has at times been too unaggressive and takes illadvised shots when he feels he needs to do more.
> 
> Okafor has hit 15 jumpers(where did it all the sudden become 15 become 18?) of course he is not going to take them the majority of the time because most of the time hes in the post but I have seen on more than a few occassions he has been open at 15 feet and drilled the shot. I seriously dont see any argument for Howard in why hes a better player. Okafor has it ALL, his offensive game, which some people who dont even watch the games(OZZY) yet claim they do, say is not good. Dont even try to tell me you watch him because anyone that does knows how dominant he is inside. I wish he would touch the ball in the post everytime down the floor because he is unstoppable. He is not smaller than brand he is taller. He is 6'9 1/2 in socks and brand is 6'8 in shoes. His defense is better than Brand. Howard is just a kid right now and a team can only hope that he gains the arsenal Okafor has. Man, people dont even see Howard play often yet they make the assumption that since he is 6'11 and ranked the best HS player that he is automatically better then a player who they claim to see so much more of who has shown he is better than Howard


First of all, I am not a Boston College fan. Second I live in New York City, not Boston. So last I checked quite a few NYers play on Big East teams. You think Taliek Brown has played well, I don't. He really has regressed from his St. John's Prep days and I still wonder how he became a McDonald's All-American. He has not played well in years.

I am also a Michigan fan, as most people on this board know, just because I have a BC avatar doesn't mean anything. I personally know Uka Agbai and he got hurt last year with a serious neck injury so I sport the avatar because I am rooting for him and the Eagles to do well. 

Listen I am glad that you are a rabid UConn fan, but please don't try to explain Big East basketball to me or what I can see or don't see about these players, I don't need to weigh my opinion on basketball against yours because I don't know many people who know more about college basketball than I do. 

Please ucdawg, take your 11 posts and go home, because you aren't going to convince me. I have watched Okafor for 3 years and I think he is a good player, I have said as much but I am not going to ride his nuts to the Hall of Fame. I'll say that for you.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ucdawg12</b>!
> 
> 
> Okay, wow Okafor was a freshman when they played and Sweeney had an outstanding 16 points. Oh and even better he was 3-12 from the field! Against a freshman. Wow! I guess its impossible to a player to improve from a freshman to junior? Or was that more like a blind statement that you hoped would catch on in your ill-fated argument?


Please learn how to spell. The name is Sweetney. I was using Sweetney as an example because Okafor in his college career has had trouble with very physical players. Rob Little of Stanford, Lonny Baxter of Maryland, Ontario Lett, Chevy Troutman and now Chris Taft of Pitt. Those guys are nothing like the guys he is going to face on the next level. He is going to have to up his game considerably is what I am saying. 

Since you came in here seeing rage, trying to defend your precious Emeka Okafor, I am just calling it like I see it. Why don't you post on the Big East board sometime and read thru the posts to see how anti-Big East I am. I used to be the mod over there, but I sure hate the Big East.  

Get a clue man, I just like college basketball, who cares about your petty rivalries.


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## Kezersoze (Mar 3, 2004)

Can someone tell me what makes Dwight Howard so good? what has he done? there isnt exactly lebron level hype on him.


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## ucdawg12 (Jun 3, 2003)

Sorry, I missed a letter, is that your defense for why you totally threw out a fact that was, in actuality, blatantly wrong? I am sorry, I guess I assumed you were a Boston College fan by your Boston College avatar, I see no plausible reason to make such a mistake! Okay, lets talk about Lonny Baxter, the 6-6 300 pound center that had double digit FT attempts in the elite 8, it cant be possible that the senior was getting the benefit of the doubt over the freshman? Okay, lets say that wasnt the case, lets look at the ages of the two players, Emeka was a raw freshman who did not have an offseason to get in the weight room, against a senior who made his game by being overpowering. Okafor has had 2 seasons to work on it and especially this year he has shown that he has the power to handle power centers. Its amazing how people act like Okafor is a mediocore player to be taken #1 and has all these false shortcomings while this unknown Howard is so much better because of his physical attributes which are not all that better(an in some cases if at all) than Okafor's.

edit: BTW Rob Little, also had a staggering statline against Okafor 12 points! Wow I can only hope that is considered big trouble in the NBA where he will face all these Shaqish players.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Kezersoze</b>!
> Can someone tell me what makes Dwight Howard so good? what has he done? there isnt exactly lebron level hype on him.


Well he is 6'10 (legit) 250 lbs and he is looking to on another 20 lbs of muscle this spring/summer (there is a good article at CNNSI.com about him). 

He has two things working for him. He is very adept in the paint, with very good post moves, make no mistake he would be an impact player on the college level. The other thing helping him is that this HS class is the deepest class in 20 years, and he has proven to be head and shoulders above it (though admittedly guys are closing on him). This class could literally have well over a hundred guys make NBA rosters at some point in time. A lot of high caliber athletes and improving big men. Good PG's also. 

He is a great athlete and he has a stable head on his shoulders, meaning he will be very coachable. He has very good hands, maybe not Duncan, Brand or Webber hands but pretty darn close to. He has developed a good face up game but he can also put the ball on the floor and go to the rac if necessary. He wants to keep improving and I don't know if he should be picked ahead of Emeka Okafor but if it is the Hawks who get the No.1 pick he will almost certainly be picked ahead of him.

Like I said about Josh Smith, workouts and drills will determine if this kid goes No.1. He did flat out dominate the summer circuit and Evaluation Camps last July. Howard is a stud for sure.


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## sov82 (Nov 5, 2003)

*hi*

Okafor has took away both Troutman's and Taft's offense game completely in both games. Okafor didn't score big time in either of those games due to constant double and triple teams on him. UCONN won the first game because they shot the ball decently from the outside. They lost the second game because they did not.

These games weren't Emeka's absolute best games of the season, but they were hardly a struggle.

You are right though about most of the other players. He didn't play his best games against those big guys but he didn't play badly either.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ucdawg12</b>!
> Sorry, I missed a letter, is that your defense for why you totally threw out a fact that was, in actuality, blatantly wrong? I am sorry, I guess I assumed you were a Boston College fan by your Boston College avatar, I see no plausible reason to make such a mistake! Okay, lets talk about Lonny Baxter, the 6-6 300 pound center that had double digit FT attempts in the elite 8, it cant be possible that the senior was getting the benefit of the doubt over the freshman? Okay, lets say that wasnt the case, lets look at the ages of the two players, Emeka was a raw freshman who did not have an offseason to get in the weight room, against a senior who made his game by being overpowering. Okafor has had 2 seasons to work on it and especially this year he has shown that he has the power to handle power centers. Its amazing how people act like Okafor is a mediocore player to be taken #1 and has all these false shortcomings while this unknown Howard is so much better because of his physical attributes which are not all that better(an in some cases if at all) than Okafor's.
> 
> edit: BTW Rob Little, also had a stagger statline against Okafor 12 points! Wow I can only hope that is considered big trouble in the NBA where he will face all these Shaqish players.


Doesn't mean that bigger players don't get Okafor in foul trouble. You are going clearly by stats but if someone gets Okafor in foul trouble that is just as effective as scoring on him because it hurts Connecticut. How come you didn't talk about the Pitt teams that made it very difficult on him? Lonny Baxter is 265 lbs. 300 where did that come from? 

I don't know why are you so angry that Emeka might not be the No. 1 pick. He is guaranteed to be taken within the top 2 picks in the draft. Is that not good enough? 

Let me just ask you this question, do you see Emeka Okafor being better than Amare Stoudemire?


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

*Re: hi*



> Originally posted by <b>sov82</b>!
> Okafor has took away both Troutman's and Taft's offense game completely in both games. Okafor didn't score big time in either of those games due to constant double and triple teams on him. UCONN won the first game because they shot the ball decently from the outside. They lost the second game because they did not.
> 
> These games weren't Emeka's absolute best games of the season, but they were hardly a struggle.
> ...


That's what I am saying. I said he struggles, not that he *sux*. Struggling doesn't mean that he didn't have good moments in the game, it just means that everything didn't go right. And we know that simply saying the team didn't shoot well doesn't fly against Pitt because no one shoots well against them. Just saying that here is where a weakness of his might be found, and all the Big Men in the NBA are better than what he has had to face on a night in and night out basis in the college. 

It's more a fact that Okafor can be neutralized than him flat out not producing. I just don't see him as a future star right off the bat. I think it is going to take some time.


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## ucdawg12 (Jun 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> 
> 
> Doesn't mean that bigger players don't get Okafor in foul trouble. You are going clearly by stats but if someone gets Okafor in foul trouble that is just as effective as scoring on him because it hurts Connecticut. How come you didn't talk about the Pitt teams that made it very difficult on him? Lonny Baxter is 265 lbs. 300 where did that come from?
> ...


Okay I know I will take some heat for this, but Pitt gets calls, they are a scrappy team that fouls so often they have gotten good at making it look subtle and force other teams to play physical, but those teams are not as well adapted to doing it while making it look subtle. When I said 300 lbs I purposely used a large number because he is a large guy, but not as skillful. But lets conviently forget the age difference when we make our points ok? it makes it so much easier to argue blindly. Pitt is a rather old team, Krauser the rs sophmore PG is older then our senior point guard. They take their time getting to Pitt.

I am not as upset at the possibility of him being passed over at #1(if the 76ers get the #2 pick I am all for someone passing over him) as much as the ignorance that thinks his offensive game is still primative. People make such wrong comments about his offensive game that I feel the need to defend him. Hmm as for Amare vs Oak... I dont know I know Okafor will be good but honestly how can you compare them right now? I think they will be really close though and I know Okafor will become the best player he can be because he is extremely smart and knows exactly what he needs to work on to make himself better and will do it. Some players will not, and some that do dont necessarily do the right workouts.

Also you mentioned practice earlier and how it doesnt translate to the game often. Well I am telling you that he hit 80%+ in practice while shooting 50ish% in game time, and if you notice his form doesnt have a flaw in it. The practice will rub off, it may slowly rub off or he may just break through it. I know when he is confident in it, he hits them (10-13 against St Johns)


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## ucdawg12 (Jun 3, 2003)

*Re: Re: hi*



> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> 
> 
> That's what I am saying. I said he struggles, not that he *sux*. Struggling doesn't mean that he didn't have good moments in the game, it just means that everything didn't go right. And we know that simply saying the team didn't shoot well doesn't fly against Pitt because no one shoots well against them. Just saying that here is where a weakness of his might be found, and all the Big Men in the NBA are better than what he has had to face on a night in and night out basis in the college.
> ...


But do you think Howard will be a star right off the bat or not? Not many players will be stars right off the bat, I do think Okafor will be one though, but they still can become stars a few years down. Again, I do think he will be a star right off the bat.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: hi*



> Originally posted by <b>ucdawg12</b>!
> But do you think Howard will be a star right off the bat or not? Not many players will be stars right off the bat, I do think Okafor will be one though, but they still can become stars a few years down. Again, I do think he will be a star right off the bat.


No I don't think Howard will be a star off the bat, but he doesn't have to, not the way the NBA drafts. Okafor is going to have to produce immediately for all the college basketball pundits who talk about the game to still have credibility. You think Okafor will be a star off the bat, and I don't. I don't think he will be any better than Elton Brand was and Brand was getting 20 and 10 a game as a 20 year old rookie. If Okafor gets 14-8 or better he has had a successful season. If Okafor has a Boozer type rookie year, I will say his year has been a success. 

I do think Howard has much better upside than him because of his age and the fact that he is the best player in a loaded HS class. Plus some believe that he is not finished growing. If he tops out at 7'0 you always take a potential franchise center over a Power Forward because you can get a PF anywhere in this league. 

And believe it or not, when you are picking first, you are hoping to hit a homerun with a guy to take you to the promised land and be an-All Star caliber player. I am just not convinced that Emeka will be that, I believe he will be a solid 2nd-3rd option on a winning team. 

And even thought Okafor has gotten better since he got to UConn, there is no guarantee that he will continue to improve. He *might* max out on his talent. We don't know. If I had the chance to take Chris Webber or Kenyon Martin, I take Webber, but then again it all depends on what your team needs are. 

Note: I am not saying that Howard/Okafor will become those guys but for comparison sake.


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## ucdawg12 (Jun 3, 2003)

Please tell me what you think of his game, people that watch him regularly know he is absolutely dominant on both sides of the court. If I am a NBA GM I can only hope Howard reaches Okafors level now and if he does, which is a big risk, and then assuming Okafor has maxed out, well then he has a 2 inch advantage any maybe a few years, but I dont think he will develope as quickly as Okafor did. What do you think he needs to improve on to be a star? I am not trying to insult you here but how often do you see him play? I dont see any flaw, besides FTs and I will take that, in his game. Are you still going off his freshman year when he had no offense, maybe it is hard to believe that he could develope such an arsenal in really one year, he did have a great offensive game last year too. I really want to know what you think about his flaws cause I think you are off base if you honestly would take an unproven HS player over a college player who has already shown he has all the offense and defense you can ask for, and he has great physical attributes so its not like hes lacking there.


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## sov82 (Nov 5, 2003)

*One Point*

Just one point about comparing what Brand did in his rookie year compared to Emeka next year.

In 1999-2000, there were 20 players over 20pts a game....14 players over 22pts

This year, 18 players over 20pts....9 over 22pts
There are also only 9 players with over 10rbs a game


So whats the equivalent stat line for Emeka next year compared to Brand's stats in 1999-2000? Looking at the changes in the league, I would say averaging 17.5pts a game would be just as good as Brand's stats in his rookie year.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

I have seen him all 3 years as I have ESPN Full Court and UConn games come on here all the time in NYC. 

His strengths: (Not in order of necessity)
1. Strength - He is a physical speciman and has an incredible physique. That will help him in the pros because they guys are really strong.
2. Defense - He plays very good defense and is a good strongside defender/shotblocker. 
3. Work Ethic - He is a coachable guy and has shown the desire to improve his game, which is very important.
4. Athleticism - He is a top notch athlete, whom I noticed has an impressive vertical leap. 

His weaknesses: (Not in order of necessity)
1. Offense - Even though he has improved in this area, he still does not put the ball on the floor and show much of a face up game. Note he is playing with Armstrong, Villanueva & Boone, so showing his face up game from time to time would be nice, but not against teams like Sacred Heart or Army, which are no comp. Unless he is strictly a back to the basket guy in the NBA, he is going to have to improve this area of his game much faster than any other.
2. Injuries - Now this really pertains to his back. I know people say that his back is not nerve orientated and not structural but in three games this year, Georgia Tech, Villanova & Seton Hall it bothered him. He's gonna have to prove it is not a problem. Tyson Chandler of the Bulls seems to have a bad back also and it keeps him out for long stretches of games.


Overall he grades out as a top pick, but with the way the draft is set up he would not be picked over a guy who has more potential and similiar talents. 

They are both going to be good players but the fact that Okafor is not the consensus No. 1 pick, has more to do with the way the draft set up, then if he is good enough to receive it. I don't care how many times the ESPN talking heads talk up the college players, the stars in this league are coming from HS & Europe now and it will continue to be that way w/ some exceptions like Carmelo.

I'm done talking about this, because nothing can be proven until the pre-draft camps, workouts and the draft itself. Team needs matter more, but I still think Howard goes first if the Hawks are picking. If it is Orlando or Chicago, then expect Okafor because they need help immediately. So Okafor better be ready to produce.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

*Re: One Point*



> Originally posted by <b>sov82</b>!
> 
> So whats the equivalent stat line for Emeka next year compared to Brand's stats in 1999-2000? Looking at the changes in the league, I would say averaging 17.5pts a game would be just as good as Brand's stats in his rookie year.


Just for perspective, If he got those kind of numbers he would have a similiar year to Pau Gasol and an even better year than Amare Stoudemire. It is going to be tough. Post players have it rough in the NBA.


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## ucdawg12 (Jun 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>
> His weaknesses: (Not in order of necessity)
> 1. Offense - Even though he has improved in this area, he still does not put the ball on the floor and show much of a face up game. Note he is playing with Armstrong, Villanueva & Boone, so showing his face up game from time to time would be nice, but not against teams like Sacred Heart or Army, which are no comp. Unless he is strictly a back to the basket guy in the NBA, he is going to have to improve this area of his game much faster than any other.
> 2. Injuries - Now this really pertains to his back. I know people say that his back is not nerve orientated and not structural but in three games this year, Georgia Tech, Villanova & Seton Hall it bothered him.


Okay, I will give you the back, but I dont think its that serious as it is just nagging right now, I think it will heal during the offseason. His offense I will disagree with you about, I think its outstanding, I have seen him face up, I have seen him do everything you want a big man to do and do it well, I know Im not going to convince you over a message board. Oak will have to show you on the floor. You will see plenty of him during the tourney, hopefully all the way to the NC and he'll prove himself infront of America like Carmelo did last year.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ucdawg12</b>!
> 
> 
> Okay, I will give you the back, but I dont think its that serious as it is just nagging right now, I think it will heal during the offseason. His offense I will disagree with you about, I think its outstanding, I have seen him face up, I have seen him do everything you want a big man to do and do it well, I know Im not going to convince you over a message board. Oak will have to show you on the floor. You will see plenty of him during the tourney, hopefully all the way to the NC and he'll prove himself infront of America like Carmelo did last year.


He rarely puts the ball on the floor and goes to the hoop. He is going to have to do that on the next level. Once Zach Randolph adequately proved he could do it, he became a 20-10 guy because he has excellent footwork and post moves. PF's can't just play close to the hoop because they bog down the offense. He is going to have to make 15-18 footers consistently because even guys like P.J. Brown & Horace Grant do it. These are facets of his game that I have yet to see in his repetoire. I have the 3 tourney games he played last year on tape, so I will go back and look at them. 

I will be recording the tourney again this year and I will specifically look for it, but then again I don't expect him to be doing this because around this time you do what has gotten you so far and now UConn is trying to win a National Title.


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## SheriffKilla (Jan 1, 2004)

i pick okafor

if he gets enough playing time
he will lead the league in blocks next season


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## ucdawg12 (Jun 3, 2003)

Put the ball on the floor as in a backing down, spin around for the dunk? Or taking it from the top of the key to the basket on the floor? I havent seen him to do the latter but I have seen him put the ball on the floor often enough to know that he can


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ucdawg12</b>!
> Put the ball on the floor as in a backing down, spin around for the dunk? Or taking it from the top of the key to the basket on the floor? I havent seen him to do the latter but I have seen him put the ball on the floor often enough to know that he can


You understand the term facing up correct? He has to face the basket and then make a move with the dribble towards the goal or hit a mid-range jumper. Power Forwards can not just get away with backing their man down and scoring. They are not going to score enough, and will get their shot blocked more often than not. 

Even great back to the basket players like Brand, Randolph and Duncan have had to face up to score consistently. Double teams are easier against a guy who plays back to the basket.


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## ucdawg12 (Jun 3, 2003)

And you think Okafor wont be able to do this, but Howard will?


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ucdawg12</b>!
> And you think Okafor wont be able to do this, but Howard will?


Who is saying Okafor won't be able to do it? I am saying he has to prove it. Howard did just that all last summer during the camps and AAU circuit. So scouts already know he can do it. I don't see Okafor doing that during the Big East season. 

I watch the Big East tournament with a critical eye and see if he does that, but I haven't seen it in game action.


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## ucdawg12 (Jun 3, 2003)

Okay, I'll look so I can give some examples if I see him making a move, but I have seen him hit the midrange jumper in games, and not off a backdown.


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## Kezersoze (Mar 3, 2004)

But aren't the most dominate players in the league from college? Duncan,Shaq,Webber,Kidd. I know there alot of all stars coming from high school but there not exactly going any where(Excluding Kobe cause he has shaq), look at McGrady he is awesome but in last place. People hate on Kenyon despite the fact that he has been to the Nba finals twice(playing a big role) and has been an allstar this year, so I would not call him a bust on the draft end. People forget that most of the last mvp's have been college players Shaq/Iverson/Duncan. KG is the only highschool player in a long time to be even considered mvp material. 

By the way KG is one of my favorite players.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ucdawg12</b>!
> Okay, I'll look so I can give some examples if I see him making a move, but I have seen him hit the midrange jumper in games, and not off a backdown.


Unless you have video that you can post on the board, I won't be able to see it. There are reasons why he may not have been able to show that particular part of his game. 

1. UConn needs him in the paint no matter what and this is the most effective way for him to score.
2. He can't do it.
3. He is more confident in scoring closer to the hoop.

College success is no guarantee for NBA stardom. Eddie Griffin had similiar numbers as a freshman that Okafor had for his junior year. Shane Battier, is a role player. Michael Olowokandi and Joe Smith are role players. There are no guarantees. Just like Dwight Howard is a question mark, so is Okafor. 

This is the last time I will be responding because I don't know what else I can say. I am not saying he is not a great player, just that I would draft Howard before him depending on my needs. If I'm the Hawks I draft Howard. Orlando or Chicago and I draft Okafor.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Kezersoze</b>!
> But aren't the most dominate players in the league from college? Duncan,Shaq,Webber,Kidd. I know there alot of all stars coming from high school but there not exactly going any where(Excluding Kobe cause he has shaq), look at McGrady he is awesome but in last place. People hate on Kenyon despite the fact that he has been to the Nba finals twice(playing a big role) and has been an allstar this year, so I would not call him a bust on the draft end. People forget that most of the last mvp's have been college players Shaq/Iverson/Duncan. KG is the only highschool player in a long time to be even considered mvp material.
> 
> By the way KG is one of my favorite players.


Now how many of those players came after the HS to the NBA invasion. Only Duncan and Iverson. The next set of big time NBA superstars will be from HS and Europe, with a small few being college players like Hinrich, Arenas & Wade. Most small guards need college anyway, because running a pro offense can be difficult. Do you really think if KG was in the East he wouldn't get out of the first round?

Edit to add: Kobe finished 3rd in MVP voting last year. He had an MVP type year, just KG and Duncan were better.


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## Kezersoze (Mar 3, 2004)

I understand why atlanta would draft howard first though. mainly cause howard would or could be a potential franchise player for Atlanta much like lebron here in Cleveland. All Dwight has to do is but up some decent 14/7 numbers and he would become a huge cash cow in the ATL! but u know I sort disagree with what dwight howard's father said about howards stock might fall if he went to college, if he is really as good as they say he is then he would own college and take his team to the final four and win. It seems like his parents are just trying to cash in on him cause they dont want him to get hurt.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Kezersoze</b>!
> I kinda agree with you hong kong after reading the s1.com article. mainly cause howard would or could be a potential franchise player for Atlanta much like lebron here in Cleveland. All Dwight has to do is but up some decent 14/7 numbers and he would become a huge cash cow in the ATL! but u know I sort disagree with what dwight howard's father said about howards stock might fall if he went to college, if he is really as good as they say he is then he would own college and take his team to the final four and win. It seems like his parents are just trying to cash in on him cause they dont want him to get hurt.


Well IMO Howard would almost assuredly drop by staying college. The next Lebron is coming in 2006 and he is 6'11 Greg Oden (He is a man-child out of Indianapolis). See these kids are getting better and better. If you are a top 1-3 pick, you come out no matter what, because you have no where to go but down. Why would you go to college if you are a top 1-3 pick?


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## Kezersoze (Mar 3, 2004)

Can you give me some more info on this Gred Oden Cat? 6'11? lbs? what can he do? also i heard Josh Smith in this draft is supposed to be the second coming as well. its like there is a second coming every year. Can you tell me who is the next moses malone? the east and nba in general seriously need big men, since diop/brown seem to be failures. although curry is trying to have a break through season. eddy is starting to get fearless did u see the cavs game? but hinrich is the real star on that team did u see that dunk he had? lol Z should be ashamed!


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Oden is 6'11 225 sophomore right now. He is listed as one of the top 3 players in the class of 2006 right now, but he hasn't begun to tap out on his tremendous potential. He is a super athlete with very good skills around the basket and he might still be growing. Some have said he is the first in the line of soon to be KG athletes, but I don't think he is. I was going to go to the Peach Jam this summer while visiting Atlanta, but I decided not to, only to find out that he was dominating any and all comers. College coaches recruiting him are wasting their time. 

Be on the lookout for him at the Nike Camp this summer. He should be pretty dominant. I haven't been following his HS season too closely but last I saw, he was avg. almost a triple double in points, rebounds and blocks as a sophomore. Pretty impressive to me.


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## whiterhino (Jun 15, 2003)

Okafor vs. Howard basically comes down to the sure thing versus possible Superstar and it also comes down to can your team wait or does it need immediate help. This is how I think it shakes out for the teams that will probably be in the lottery
Atlanta - They take Howard because he's from Georgia and wants to play for them very badly (and no one else does), also they cleared their roster so they are going to suck for a few more years anyway so why not wait on the potential superstar while he develops, Okafor couldn't save them anyway.
Orlando - They take Okafor, they do this because T-MAC will leave if that team does not make SIGNIFICANT progress next season, Okafor can help them do this, Howard will not be ready and by the time he would be T-MAC would be long gone.
Washington - Okafor, they could not risk another Kwame situation, although he's playing better now. Also Kwame is the same as Howard so Okafor would be a better compliment for him.
Phoenix - I think they take Okafor. They have so many young studs now, with Okafor they solidify themselves and become a contender again.
Boston - Ainge wants another superstar and he loves the high school guys, it would be Howard without a doubt in my mind, he's willing to wait on him.
Philadelphia - I think that team needs to inject some excitement in a very stale product.....for this reason, I think they choose Howard.
Chicago - Okafor, obviously....they already have Curry and Chandler and it hasn't worked out as they hoped so there is no way they add a 3rd HS project.
Toronto - Okafor, they need immediate help and they have Bosh who is similar to Howard
Miami - Howard, I think they can wait for him

I don't see any of the other teams getting high enough to even warrant discussing who they would take.


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## Kezersoze (Mar 3, 2004)

I agree


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## ucdawg12 (Jun 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> 
> 
> Unless you have video that you can post on the board, I won't be able to see it. There are reasons why he may not have been able to show that particular part of his game.
> ...


I do save the games to my computer so if I see one I'll try to get it up if I can find a host


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

CBS reported that Okafor was suffering from lower back problems again before his game today with Syracuse. This is what would scare me, because back problems don't get better.


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> CBS reported that Okafor was suffering from lower back problems again before his game today with Syracuse. This is what would scare me, because back problems don't get better.


his size would scare me, he is almost in the alonzo mourning category where he was good but couldnt match up with the big centers. this draft isnt loaded with the talent that last years had so its kind of hard to see any team doing any big turnaround one year from now.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rainman</b>!
> 
> 
> his size would scare me, he is almost in the alonzo mourning category where he was good but couldnt match up with the big centers. this draft isnt loaded with the talent that last years had so its kind of hard to see any team doing any big turnaround one year from now.


With his back as bad as it is, he can barely jump or run. Craig Forth has three baskets already. To me his back would be a real concern if I was a GM.


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