# Kobe or MJ?



## kobegio8 (Oct 25, 2006)

Kobe is the best but MJ......... he is flying man. excelent player. MJ MJ MJ. he is the god of basketball, but Kobe is the king


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## pac4eva5 (Dec 29, 2005)

wtf?


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## kobegio8 (Oct 25, 2006)

i;m from Georgia so i don't know english well. what does it means wtf?


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## ravor44 (Feb 26, 2005)

:spam:

....MJ....


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## ceejaynj (Oct 9, 2005)




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## madskillz1_99 (Dec 5, 2004)

kobegio8 said:


> Kobe is the best but MJ......... he is flying man. excelent player. MJ MJ MJ. he is the god of basketball, but Kobe is the king


lol. best post ever. :cheers:


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

Somehow, Isiah Thomas.


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## Cris (Jun 18, 2003)

kobegio8 said:


> i;m from Georgia so i don't know english well. what does it means wtf?


 i wouldnt worry about it...


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## DaBruins (Jul 30, 2003)

MJ is God
Kobe is King
Rodman is Queen

I believe that's how it works


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## ceejaynj (Oct 9, 2005)

MJ (Magic Johnson) is God!!! :allhail:


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## Roscoe Sheed (Jun 19, 2006)

Jordan was a far better player than Kobe. It isn't even close. Kobe has never shot above 50%. Actually, very rarely does he make it above 45%. Jordan was a superior defender, rebounder, and passer. Also, he was a more efficient scorer. In his prime, he consistently shot at, near, or above 50%. So, I don't think Kobe is better than MJ in any way.


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## Bartholomew Hunt (Mar 4, 2003)

stickied for brilliance


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## The One (Jul 10, 2005)

pac4eva5 said:


> wtf?


Exactly...


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## Bartholomew Hunt (Mar 4, 2003)

I think he meant "wtf" as in "seriously, wtf are you trying to say"


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## The One (Jul 10, 2005)

Judging by the poll results, I know this thread was not supposed to be seriouse, but I'm just tired of any thread are article that compares somebody to MJ.

I mean, Come on now. Kobe himself said that he was tired of being compared and/or his skills being measured by one past player that the world never seemed get over. So why are we still comparing him to MJ? Just to start a cliche contraversy? Just get into a discussion that *we all know* will end with a lot of loose opinions, quick assumptions, and usual member bashing with main discussion not ever being solved? It's time for us fans, analyst, and media to *stop reinventing past players* through polls and flashbacks and start looking at how we can appreciated the way players are unique and what they could leave for their *own *legecy...not how well a player can reenact a former player's legecy.

- The One.


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## nguyen_milan (Jun 28, 2005)

wtf? Is it me or Kobe won this poll 810 to 1 haha?


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## Ghiman (May 19, 2003)

Hahaha...if i could only frame a thread i would with this one! :rofl:


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## sac23kings (Mar 31, 2005)

this thread is a disgrace... even jokingly you can never compare kobe to mj...


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

sac23kings said:


> this thread is a disgrace... even jokingly you can never compare kobe to mj...


The only disgrace here is a Kings fan living in Los Angeles.


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## Unique (Apr 13, 2005)

EHL said:


> The only disgrace here is a Kings fan living in Los Angeles.


hehe. buuuuuurn.


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## Bartholomew Hunt (Mar 4, 2003)

EHL said:


> The only disgrace here is a Kings fan living in Los Angeles.


 This post delivers.


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## afobisme (Apr 29, 2006)

come on, now someone post that video of the rock playing on his guitar again.


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## ceejaynj (Oct 9, 2005)

The One said:


> Judging by the poll results, I know this thread was not supposed to be seriouse, but I'm just tired of any thread are article that compares somebody to MJ.
> 
> I mean, Come on now. Kobe himself said that he was tired of being compared and/or his skills being measured by one past player that the world never seemed get over. So why are we still comparing him to MJ? Just to start a cliche contraversy? Just get into a discussion that *we all know* will end with a lot of loose opinions, quick assumptions, and usual member bashing with main discussion not ever being solved? It's time for us fans, analyst, and media to *stop reinventing past players* through polls and flashbacks and start looking at how we can appreciated the way players are unique and what they could leave for their *own *legecy...not how well a player can reenact a former player's legecy.
> 
> - The One.


I couldn't agree more about reinventing past players...especially Michael Jordan. He gets so much press, it's like he's not even retired!!!


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## CentralCaliGuy (Oct 3, 2006)

There simply isn't a comparision. Kobe Bryant is the flavor of the moment.

There will always be two sets of fans divided on this comparision. Laker/Bull fans. Bulls fan will tell you MJ.

But everyone elce, putting both Laker and Bulls fans aside will tell you MJ.

Kobe has 3 NBA tittles do to Shaq. Michael practically won all 6 of his single handedly.

Kobe never will be as good as Michael. lol, Laker fans give that one a rest already. =) :banana:


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## ceejaynj (Oct 9, 2005)

CentralCaliGuy said:


> There simply isn't a comparision. Kobe Bryant is the flavor of the moment.
> 
> There will always be two sets of fans divided on this comparision. Laker/Bull fans. Bulls fan will tell you MJ.
> 
> ...


I wouldn't say that MJ won his titles single handedly. He played for a coach named Phil Jackson...and with some other pretty good players...named Pippen, Kukoc, Cartwright, Harper, Kerr, Woolridge, Paxon, Oakley, Grant...even George Gervin...just to name a few. Other than Gervin, none were superstars...but they were the perfect role players. Please...don't give MJ more credit than he deserves. His "legend" has been reinvented so much and, as a result, he now seems to get ALL the credit for the Bulls past success.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

ceejaynj said:


> I wouldn't say that MJ won his titles single handedly. He played for a coach named Phil Jackson...and with some other pretty good players...named Pippen, Kukoc, Cartwright, Harper, Kerr, Woolridge, Paxon, Oakley, Grant...even George Gervin...just to name a few. Other than Gervin, none were superstars...but they were the perfect role players. Please...don't give MJ more credit than he deserves. His "legend" has been reinvented so much and, as a result, he now seems to get ALL the credit for the Bulls past success.


Go back, and watch all the playoffs, and finals appearances the Bulls made with MJ. You will see that MJ took 90 percent of the critical shots to help his team win the chip or advance to play in the next round. I was a huge Bulls fan in the 80s/90s. I agree with you that MJ's role players were significant in contributions they made to help win the Championships, none bigger then maybe Paxsons 3 ball that went in to beat the Suns for the first 3 peat. However the process to a championship starts long before a team ever wins the championship. It was MJ the catalyst on offense, and defense making strides for those Chicago Bulls teams during a time when most people thought of Scottie Pippen as only a decent role player, hence why he was traded to Chicago. MJ helped mold Scottie into the superstar defensive player he became, and MJ demanded simply the most, and best out of all his teammates long before the Bulls ever won a championship. The Legend of MJ isn't at all reinvented. It's just truly that powerful, and amazing. Don't hate on MJ. There will only be one MJ. Kobe Bryant is my favorite player, but he's no MJ. He will be Kobe Bryant, and he has the rest of his career to write his ending. Right now I"m rooting for the guy to win his first MVP award that he should of received last season.


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## ceejaynj (Oct 9, 2005)

23AJ said:


> Go back, and watch all the playoffs, and finals appearances the Bulls made with MJ. You will see that MJ took 90 percent of the critical shots to help his team win the chip or advance to play in the next round. I was a huge Bulls fan in the 80s/90s. I agree with you that MJ's role players were significant in contributions they made to help win the Championships, none bigger then maybe Paxsons 3 ball that went in to beat the Suns for the first 3 peat. However the process to a championship starts long before a team ever wins the championship. It was MJ the catalyst on offense, and defense making strides for those Chicago Bulls teams during a time when most people thought of Scottie Pippen as only a decent role player, hence why he was traded to Chicago. MJ helped mold Scottie into the superstar defensive player he became, and MJ demanded simply the most, and best out of all his teammates long before the Bulls ever won a championship. The Legend of MJ isn't at all reinvented. It's just truly that powerful, and amazing. Don't hate on MJ. There will only be one MJ. Kobe Bryant is my favorite player, but he's no MJ. He will be Kobe Bryant, and he has the rest of his career to write his ending. Right now I"m rooting for the guy to win his first MVP award that he should of received last season.


Actually, I'm neither "hating" on MJ or giving any kudos to Kobe. I'm just so tired of the Kobe/MJ comparisons. I watched MJ play his entire college and pro career. He was a great player and, along with coach Phil Jackson, did manage to make his teammates better players...no arguement there. However, he was not a one-man-team, like the media and some fans portray. The arguement that Kobe could not have won championships without Shaq holds true for MJ also...who would not (and did not) have won without Scottie Pippen. However, the media holds this over Kobe's head, for unknown reasons...and it will probably continue, since Shaq's Heat won the championship last year. This is not done when discussing MJs career. Kind of a double standard, as this arguement can be made with other superstar duos also. In the eyes of the media and some fans, MJ did no wrong and was God's gift to basketball...which I do not entirely agree with. IMO...that is how the "legend" of MJ is alittle overstated/reinvented...he gets ALL the credit and should not.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

ceejaynj said:


> Actually, I'm neither "hating" on MJ or giving any kudos to Kobe. I'm just so tired of the Kobe/MJ comparisons. I watched MJ play his entire college and pro career. He was a great player and, along with coach Phil Jackson, did manage to make his teammates better players...no arguement there. However, he was not a one-man-team, like the media and some fans portray. The arguement that Kobe could not have won championships without Shaq holds true for MJ also...who would not (and did not) have won without Scottie Pippen. However, the media holds this over Kobe's head, for unknown reasons...and it will probably continue, since Shaq's Heat won the championship last year. This is not done when discussing MJs career. Kind of a double standard, as this arguement can be made with other superstar duos also. In the eyes of the media and some fans, MJ did no wrong and was God's gift to basketball...which I do not entirely agree with. IMO...that is how the "legend" of MJ is alittle overstated/reinvented...he gets ALL the credit and should not.


The main reason why the Kobe/Shaq winning/losing perception for the Lakers get's held over Kobe, and not over MJ/Pippen winning/losing perception is because Michael Jordan came to the Bulls, and did change the losing culture that was running a muck in Chicago at the time.

It was well documented that in Michael Jordans rookie season, Chicago Bulls fans would walk out of the arena if the Bulls were down by 12 or more points heading into the 4th quarter. However MJ and his competitive nature constantly pushed his teammates, and MJ, and many of those last second winning shots came from miraculous come backs in the 4th quarter. All of which was spearheaded by Michael Jordan. The fan's took heed, and starting staying for the 4th quarter to see what number 23 could do to help the Bulls come back, and win.

Kobe Bryant has that opportunity to help make his teammates better, and help mold them into a championship contender being the greatest player on their team while doing it, just like MJ did. Kobe doesn't have that distinction that MJ has when the Lakers won their respective championships because Shaq was by far the most dominate player in the NBA. Hence the 3 MVP Finals Shaq has.

I believe Kobe can do it, and this is his season to shine. MJ made what a lot of people would consider role players into great players E.G. Scottie Pippen. Scottie Pippen was less touted then that of Lamar Odom his first few seasons in the NBA. If you look at those Bulls teams that won the championship they were not grossly saturated with all star level players. They had very good role players that fed off of Michael Jordan, as it's been well documented. I believe Kobe can make the Lakers into a winning team much like Jordan did with the Bulls. Only time will tell however I do think that Kobe has a lot to prove from a team winning stand point (As the sole leader), and I do believe Kobe is making strides. but IMO Kobe has nothing to prove as an individual basketball player. As I belive Kobe's already the best in the NBA right now.


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## ceejaynj (Oct 9, 2005)

23AJ said:


> The main reason why the Kobe/Shaq winning/losing perception for the Lakers get's held over Kobe, and not over MJ/Pippen winning/losing perception is because Michael Jordan came to the Bulls, and did change the losing culture that was running a muck in Chicago at the time.
> 
> It was well documented that in Michael Jordans rookie season, Chicago Bulls fans would walk out of the arena if the Bulls were down by 12 or more points heading into the 4th quarter. However MJ and his competitive nature constantly pushed his teammates, and MJ, and many of those last second winning shots came from miraculous come backs in the 4th quarter. All of which was spearheaded by Michael Jordan. The fan's took heed, and starting staying for the 4th quarter to see what number 23 could do to help the Bulls come back, and win.
> 
> ...


Kobe just has to work harder at making his teammates better players. That is the only facet of his game that needs some polishing.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

ceejaynj said:


> Kobe just has to work harder at making his teammates better players. That is the only facet of his game that needs some polishing.


Yep, and this season I believe he has all the tools he needs to do it. More importantly as Kobe helps his teammates continue to improve after last years playoffs. It will in turn free up Kobe to have an even more spectacular season then he had last year.

My prediction for Kobe is to the be 06/07 NBA MVP, and to put up 32PPG, 6RPG, and 7APG. While making the Lakers into one of the best teams out west.


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

if it wasnt for scottie pippen... people would be trying to make the argument as to why jordan was as good as kobe is now.

you cant compare anyone to jordan because none of these modern day stars have scottie pippen. I'm sorry but I dont think in a team game Kobe will ever have a decent shot a being compared to Michael. Scoring 100 in a game wont even do it.... unless kirk hinrich takes the mle and the wolves trade garnett. seriously... then theyd win 4 championships in a row... and kobe would be the best ever.

or suns coulda drafted pippen and then traded for barkley.... and then those two would have a load of rings.

seriously its not how great you are, but who you play with. Kobe's talent is up there with anyone


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## Cris (Jun 18, 2003)

810-1....


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## pac4eva5 (Dec 29, 2005)

nbanoitall said:


> if it wasnt for scottie pippen... people would be trying to make the argument as to why jordan was as good as kobe is now.
> 
> you cant compare anyone to jordan because none of these modern day stars have scottie pippen. I'm sorry but I dont think in a team game Kobe will ever have a decent shot a being compared to Michael. Scoring 100 in a game wont even do it.... unless kirk hinrich takes the mle and the wolves trade garnett. seriously... then theyd win 4 championships in a row... and kobe would be the best ever.
> 
> ...


come on mayne. in a league where bigs win championships, its fair to say MJ was in a whole nother league. players like hakeem wouldnt be as great if mj never retired. malone would have a ring. barkley would have one. so on and so on. id bet my life bigs like duncan and ben wallace and shaq would be not as great as they are now if they played in mjs era. kobe is lucky to be so young. put him in mjs era and he is a great player...but no legend.

imagine mj with a decent big, let alone shaq! seriously, taking away pippen isnt as big as taking away shaq. kobe will NEVER win a ring again...


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

pac4eva5 said:


> come on mayne. in a league where bigs win championships, its fair to say MJ was in a whole nother league. players like hakeem wouldnt be as great if mj never retired. malone would have a ring. barkley would have one. so on and so on. id bet my life bigs like duncan and ben wallace and shaq would be not as great as they are now if they played in mjs era. kobe is lucky to be so young. put him in mjs era and he is a great player...but no legend.
> 
> imagine mj with a decent big, let alone shaq! seriously, taking away pippen isnt as big as taking away shaq. kobe will NEVER win a ring again...


thats my point dude, pippen is the most underrated player of all time. this is what people dont get i'm not taking anything away from jordan... i'm just saying Pippen is way underrated. 

all i am saying is we are judging how good of player everyone is without fully realizing that jordon would have never been imortalized without a deferring hall of famer by his side. The thing is you give all these other stars a chance to play with pippen where its kobe or barkley or whoever..... and then these stars would be glorified. 

Now i'm not trying to say Kobe is better than Jordan... thats just not the point i'm trying to make, before anyone says that he has to win some championships without Shaq.

But Kobe will be a legend.... even if he never wins another ring. As for Shaq, I look at it backwards compared to a lot of people... because I remember how much talent hes had around him... and still not winning championships (before Wade and Bryant came along of course). The missed free throws and being out of shape that has plagued his career (that and I believe he also used roids) really means I probably shouldnt say much more than that.... besides then somebody would just tell me to get off chamberlains jock (best center of all time!)


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## Drk Element (Nov 10, 2004)

EHL said:


> The only disgrace here is a Kings fan living in Los Angeles.


hahaha, pwned. :biggrin:


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## GuYoM (Jun 2, 2005)

Kobe 810 MJ 1 ??????????????


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## ColinBeehler (Oct 14, 2003)

GuYoM said:


> Kobe 810 MJ 1 ??????????????


That should be:

Kobe 810 MJ 2.... my vote should count too.

MJ was just as fast, strong and had as good of hops. He could shoot just as well, pass just as well, and drive just as well. He could play great defence, rebound, get out on the break. Dunk that ball... The man could do it all... So can Kobe... so why did I vote MJ?...

Cuz he wasn't a *****... He didn't ask for his 3 time NBA Championship coach and his HOF partner in crime to be removed from HIS team. There is a good chance that Kobe could still be winning rings right now had he learned to get along with Shaq. You can say ya, the only reason MJ is considered better then Kobe is because of the great player he played with... but... Kobe played with Shaq. Got three rings... MJ got six... your poll is a joke.


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## The One (Jul 10, 2005)

ColinBeehler said:


> *1. Cuz he wasn't a *****...* *2. He didn't ask for his 3 time NBA Championship coach and his HOF partner in crime to be removed from HIS team.* *3. There is a good chance that Kobe could still be winning rings right now had he learned to get along with Shaq.* *4. You can say ya, the only reason MJ is(n't?) considered better then Kobe is because of the great player he played with... but... Kobe played with Shaq.*_ *5*_*. Got three rings... MJ got six... 6. your poll is a joke*.


1. And who says MJ was never a *****?

2. This is clearly speculation and should not be included in your argument.

3. Very true. Same for Shaq of course(Even though he did win one in Miami): remember that there is no prove right now that the fued in L.A was a onesided affair.

4. I don't think anybody has left out the Shaq factor. Kobe has been compared to MJ for years. The member who made this thread brought it up because he felt that Kobe 05-06 performance warrant anothing look at the comparison.

5. this is really the only argument right now that anybody can present: Their is a hand full of accomplishments that Jordan has done that either Kobe has not done or has not done enough (5 time League MVP, 6 Time Chamionship, 6 Time Finals MVP, I believe about 7 scoring league, Second Alltime Leading Points ect.) And it is reasonable to say that Kobe may never accomplish as much as Jordan did in stats....and for the League in general.

6. True and it would have been best if the adgenda of this thread was not a joke; then we can have a better discussion about the comparison.


UnStick This Thread.


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## DaBruins (Jul 30, 2003)

Nah, keep it stickied. Classic.


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## ColinBeehler (Oct 14, 2003)

The One said:


> 1. And who says MJ was never a *****?
> 
> 2. This is clearly speculation and should not be included in your argument.
> 
> ...


I geuss 1 and 2 should be the same point in my opinion. Actually, by his words etc. he really was a dick as I have heard. I mean, most superduperstars are, it's a winning trait. You can't be afraid to step on toes. Word has it he hated Toni Kukoc. As for the speculation. Yes, I suppose you are right... I did read Phil Jackson's book, and according to him, Kobe, Jerry I believe, and Phil were present in the meeting that Phil was fired in. Sure, could be a lie, could just be in the book to add to the story line. But I choose to believe it.

3. You're definately right. No feud can really be onesided. Shaq and Kobe obviously didn't like each other, but the greatest player ever to play the game of basketball, should be able to control the feud and win three more championships.... Actually... Four.

6. Whoops... didn't realize it was a joke thread. I looked at the votes display last, and that is what prompted me to post.

Really, I just don't like Kobe. In a SLAM article back after the Lakers first or second championship. Kobe made the point that the Raptor's could be in the Eastern Conference finals at the time had Tracy McGrady not been selfish and taken his place as the second star of the Raptors. Then he pulls the exact same **** like three years later. I mean he may not have been the cause of all the feuding between them, but in the end. For some reason. The Laker's were forced to choose between Kobe and Shaq. Obviously they made the right decision. But, what if they never had to make that decision at all?

Thank you.

-Beehls


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

pac4eva5 said:


> come on mayne. in a league where bigs win championships, its fair to say MJ was in a whole nother league.


No, it's not fair. In fact, it's crazy.



> players like hakeem wouldnt be as great if mj never retired.


Jordan never played Hakeem in the playoffs.



> malone would have a ring. barkley would have one. so on and so on. id bet my life bigs like duncan and ben wallace and shaq would be not as great as they are now if they played in mjs era. kobe is lucky to be so young. put him in mjs era and he is a great player...but no legend.


Hmmm... I wonder if Jordan would have any ring had he played in Bird's and Magic's era... Oh, Oops! He did!



> imagine mj with a decent big, let alone shaq! seriously, taking away pippen isnt as big as taking away shaq.


Imagine Kobe playing with a All-Time top-20 talent. And arguably the best defender and rebounder the games has ever seen...



> kobe will NEVER win a ring again...


Why?


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