# McDonald's Game



## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

I'm surprised I haven't seen any reviews posted here yet...I hope this is in the right forum. Anyways, here are some of my thoughts:

All in all, not a great year for HS basketball. I'm sure having Padgett & Deng out there would have helped, but I don't really see any surefire future lottery picks in this class. There are some players with some nice aspects to their games, but the complete players are few and far between. The game itself was somewhat fun to watch early on, but I would have really liked to see a bit more post-oriented play and at least an attempt at making people think defense was being played. I feel sorry for guys like Perkins, Butch, and Butler who didn't get to show anything. 

King Lebron - Isn't nearly as athletic as I thought he was, and his shot was downright awful tonight. He only won MVP because everybody was giving him open dunks. Some nice passing. His best asset is his NBA-ready body. I sure hope tonight was just an off night...

The Skinny high-fliers (Travis Outlaw, Ndudi Ebi, Charlie Villaneuva) - All three impressed, since the style of play favored their strengths overwhelmingly. Villaneuva had the play of the night on Ebi, and might be the most explosive of the bunch. Outlaw showed some game other than just dunking, and Ebi handled the ball nicely. All three are immediate impact players, and potential first-rounders down the road. 

The muscle (Leon Powe and Brandon Bass) - Neither is going to excite NBA scouts right away, but both will be leading their teams before too long into their freshman seasons. Powe has that lethal combination of strength & athleticism, and seemed to be taller than some list him as (definitely 6-7/8). Bass is strong and fundamental. 

The Behemoths (Jackie Butler, Kedrick Perkins, James Lang, Brian Butch) - This year's McD's AA game was frustrating, because we didn't get to say anything out of a decent class of big men. It was so great in 01 when Curry and Brown were directly involved in the game. Ah well. Perkins looked like he was faking that injury in the first half, but didn't play in the second, so maybe something was wrong. Neither Perkins or Butler were able to show anything. Lang is way too fat, but he looks to be quite "bouncy" for somebody that obese. Lose 30 pounds, and he'll be a decent college player. Reminded me of Eric Williams from last year, more than anything. Butch is going to be good. He impacted the game while he was in there, even if his teammates wouldn't involve him. Nice touch on that bank shot...

The Leapers (Shannon Brown, Vakeaton Wafer, JR Giddens, Mike Jones) - Brown probably looked the best, with Jones coming in a close second. Both are insane atheletes, and Brown really has a nose for getting to the hole. I really didn't notice Wafer all that much after a few nice plays in the first half. JR Giddens looked amazing at times and equally awful at others. 

The short guy (Andrew Lavender) - Impressed me more than anybody. Has a feel for the flow of the game, and knows how to score, even if he is a midget. By far the best PG on the floor. I know I will be rooting for him for the next four seasons. 

The Dribblers (Aaron Brooks, Chris Paul, Brandon Cotton) - Didn't really notice anything out of these guys. None stuck out as being out of their league, but nothing exceptional here. 


The Flops (Kris Humphries, Mustafa Shakur) - Shakur didn't look like a PG at all. I completely forgot he was playing until about halfway through the game, and saw nothing special about him. Top PG in America my a$$. Humphries was a joke most of the game. How many times did he force the issue and end up losing the ball or getting stuffed? He came back late with a nice steal and a three from the corner, but the NBA audition was a flop. This guy wanted to make a statement, but really made a fool of himself. 

??? (Ivan Harris) - Did he really play?


----------



## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

thanks so much for the review. nicely done. i didn't get to see anything from the game except for a couple of highlites. 

how freaking athletic did you think lebron was? i'm not sure if he wasn't tryin in the game (i thought that reverse was awesome) but lebron can fly with the best of them. he's not quick like MJ but he can fly with MJ. seriously, as many highfliers as there are in this league, there are very few that can take off from deep and rise their heads up to the level of the rim. the best have been thompson, dr. J, MJ, drexler, kobe, (tmac and vince but they're better off 2 feet), and now lebron. those dunks in his comp the other day were some of the highest dunks i've seen- i need to see them in slow mo! 

if you don't think that level of athleticism is out of this world you're crazy!


----------



## JustinYoung (Jul 19, 2002)

Nice post on the game last night. Let's discuss, shall we?



> Originally posted by <b>blabla97</b>!
> All in all, not a great year for HS basketball. I'm sure having Padgett & Deng out there would have helped, but I don't really see any surefire future lottery picks in this class. There are some players with some nice aspects to their games, but the complete players are few and far between. The game itself was somewhat fun to watch early on, but I would have really liked to see a bit more post-oriented play and at least an attempt at making people think defense was being played. I feel sorry for guys like Perkins, Butch, and Butler who didn't get to show anything.


One thing people have to realize that the McDonald's game isn't a post players' game. It's about guard play, transition basketball, alley-oops and three point shooting. Guys like Perkins, Butch and Butler don't shine at the Golden Arches game. Remember Amare Stoudamire only scored 12 points and had five or so rebounds last year. And six of those points came off of transition. 

As far as not being a great year in High School basketball...I would have to agree it wasn't the best year for prep ball but keep in mind that everybody had to play in the shadows of James. Now they could have elevated themselves to a higher level and some players could have stepped up to the plate. They didn't. But this class has some good talent in it. Next year is amazing. 



> Originally posted by <b>blabla97</b>!King Lebron - Isn't nearly as athletic as I thought he was, and his shot was downright awful tonight. He only won MVP because everybody was giving him open dunks. Some nice passing. His best asset is his NBA-ready body. I sure hope tonight was just an off night...


LeBron could have scored two points and still gotten the MVP award. I think he's just bored playing against the same old faces. But he still showed off his vision and body control like you mentioned.



> Originally posted by <b>blabla97</b>!The Skinny high-fliers (Travis Outlaw, Ndudi Ebi, Charlie Villaneuva) - All three impressed, since the style of play favored their strengths overwhelmingly. Villaneuva had the play of the night on Ebi, and might be the most explosive of the bunch. Outlaw showed some game other than just dunking, and Ebi handled the ball nicely. All three are immediate impact players, and potential first-rounders down the road.


Agreed. And all three have the oppurtunity to step into a starting role and become an impact player. Villaneuva, when he plays hard from start to finish, is a fine player. He'll become one of America's stars next year just like Carmelo Anthony.

Ndudi Ebi will step into Luke Walton and/or Rick Anderson's spot at Arizona. And with Frye and Fox holding down the fort in the middle, Ebi can shine on the wing. Outside of Andrew Lavender, I think Ebi had the best summer on the AAU tour. He's so versatile and so long. PAC-10 foes should be scared to guard him. Physically, he still has to add a ton of weight and muscle.

Outlaw can just fly. I hope he doesn't get the wrong people around him between now and June 25th. If he jumps ship, he'll never make it long term. But MSU will help him grow as a complete player. Especially if Austin is there for another year. 



> Originally posted by <b>blabla97</b>!The muscle (Leon Powe and Brandon Bass) - Neither is going to excite NBA scouts right away, but both will be leading their teams before too long into their freshman seasons. Powe has that lethal combination of strength & athleticism, and seemed to be taller than some list him as (definitely 6-7/8).


Agreed. I really like Powe. It was my first time to really see him in action. If he is only 80%, like they said, then watch out. True he may be a little short but he doesn't seem to worry about that. I'm salavating at the thought of him and Ike Diagu battling it out next year. 



> Originally posted by <b>blabla97</b>!The Behemoths (Jackie Butler, Kedrick Perkins, James Lang, Brian Butch) - This year's McD's AA game was frustrating, because we didn't get to say anything out of a decent class of big men. It was so great in 01 when Curry and Brown were directly involved in the game. Ah well. Perkins looked like he was faking that injury in the first half, but didn't play in the second, so maybe something was wrong. Neither Perkins or Butler were able to show anything. Lang is way too fat, but he looks to be quite "bouncy" for somebody that obese. Lose 30 pounds, and he'll be a decent college player. Reminded me of Eric Williams from last year, more than anything. Butch is going to be good. He impacted the game while he was in there, even if his teammates wouldn't involve him. Nice touch on that bank shot...


See first remarks. Perkins disappointed but then again he has disappointed for the last year. I don't know what happened to his shoulder but he is still miles away from being the player he could be. 

Butler is just terrible. He plays like that all the time. How he made the team is beyond me. 

Butch....well I simply didn't watch him enough. 



> Originally posted by <b>blabla97</b>!The Leapers (Shannon Brown, Vakeaton Wafer, JR Giddens, Mike Jones) - Brown probably looked the best, with Jones coming in a close second. Both are insane atheletes, and Brown really has a nose for getting to the hole. I really didn't notice Wafer all that much after a few nice plays in the first half. JR Giddens looked amazing at times and equally awful at others.


Again, agreed. Brown will be what Kelvin Torbert should have been at MSU. He and Cotton will be one of the funnest backcourts to watch in the next four years. Brown is similiar to McCants of UNC. I like what he brings to the table. 

It was my first time to see Mike Jones. And I like what I saw. Maryland has a knack of developing great shooting guards of late and Jones will be the most explosive one College Park has seen in a very, very long time. 

Von Wafer is still riding his success of the Kingwood Classic from last spring. I didn't like what he did. He just tried to get his and his alone. Sure he is athletic but the ACC will teach him a lesson.

Giddens didn't show what he can really do. A high flyer that moves well on the perimeter is just scary. Good to see he made the AA squad. 



> Originally posted by <b>blabla97</b>!The short guy (Andrew Lavender) - Impressed me more than anybody. Has a feel for the flow of the game, and knows how to score, even if he is a midget. By far the best PG on the floor. I know I will be rooting for him for the next four seasons.


Lavender is just amazing. He's fearless. Whether the defender is 5-8 or 7-1, he doesn't care. He knows what he can do and makes sure he gets the job done. He can take a game over. Lavender was the best player in America last summer. Oklahoma is getting spoiled. First Hollis Price and now Lavender. Lucky folks. 



> Originally posted by <b>blabla97</b>!The Dribblers (Aaron Brooks, Chris Paul, Brandon Cotton) - Didn't really notice anything out of these guys. None stuck out as being out of their league, but nothing exceptional here.


Chris Paul will shine at Wake Forest. He has all the tools. This game didn't bring them all out but he is fundamental, smart, humble, and extremely skilled. 

Brooks will be a good PG in Eugene. He'd learn a lot from another quiet unsuspecting point named Luke. Talk about a great mentor. By the way, what was up with the Anthony Mason inspired hair. 



> Originally posted by <b>blabla97</b>!The Flops (Kris Humphries, Mustafa Shakur) - Shakur didn't look like a PG at all. I completely forgot he was playing until about halfway through the game, and saw nothing special about him. Top PG in America my a$$. Humphries was a joke most of the game. How many times did he force the issue and end up losing the ball or getting stuffed? He came back late with a nice steal and a three from the corner, but the NBA audition was a flop. This guy wanted to make a statement, but really made a fool of himself.


I think Shakur is the best point guard in this class. He didn't get to show it off too much in this game but like Paul, Shakur will become a star. Arizona saw the talent and took him and forced another great guard in Will Bynum out. 

Kris Humphries is a fundamental player so it didn't surprise me that he didn't shine. Anyone catch those arms though? Wow. He'll be a great Duke player but has a log jam of players in front of him. 



> Originally posted by <b>blabla97</b>!??? (Ivan Harris) - Did he really play?


 He is from Ohio and he's an Oak Hill student = McDonald's All American. Politics my friend, politics.


----------



## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

*Re: Re: McDonald's Game*

Where was Loul Deng. I was looking forward to watching him play


----------



## Tactics (Mar 6, 2003)

*Re: Re: Re: McDonald's Game*



> Originally posted by <b>BEEZ</b>!
> Where was Loul Deng. I was looking forward to watching him play


He was injured and blabla97 how can you say Shakur and Humpries were flops? Sure they didn't put up a spectular game, but they didn't really show any weakness. Shakur put up 28ppg, 10rpg, and 10apg during the season so obviously he has skills and Humpries was in really good shape and had skills, he just looks like a punk to me


----------



## h-e-a-t-h-e-r (Mar 27, 2003)

I know I am probably quite biased as a fan of a certain player, but I think you all need to realize that although these kids are unbelieavbley talented basketball players, they are still just that...KIDS. Some of them aren't even 18 years old yet. They still live at home, still ride the bus to school (unless somehow they manage to own a Hummer), and they still go to the movies with their friends. To say that their skills are just average or to point out each & every flaw in their game is just wrong. Just because some of these boys aren't "King James" does not mean they don't deserve the praise & recognition as opposed to the criticizing remarks I see here. 

Also, while I'm on my soapbox :uhoh: to say that a player possibly faked an injury?? You should be ashamed of yourself! These kids didn't make it to this level or get into this game by faking injuries or not giving their all.

.....stepping down from my soapbox....


----------



## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

> One thing people have to realize that the McDonald's game isn't a post players' game. It's about guard play, transition basketball, alley-oops and three point shooting. Guys like Perkins, Butch and Butler don't shine at the Golden Arches game. Remember Amare Stoudamire only scored 12 points and had five or so rebounds last year. And six of those points came off of transition.


Yeah, I understand that the McD's game is always like this, but this year it felt extreme. I still felt like Amare was a more active part of last year's game. Even though Lang got 15 points and 10 boards, he made much less of an impact than Amare did last season. Maybe it reflects on the big men on the court, but I was still disappointed with the guards in this respect...



> As far as not being a great year in High School basketball...I would have to agree it wasn't the best year for prep ball but keep in mind that everybody had to play in the shadows of James. Now they could have elevated themselves to a higher level and some players could have stepped up to the plate. They didn't. But this class has some good talent in it. Next year is amazing.


I agre there is plenty of talent there. Villeneuva is probably a better athelete than anybody from last year. But overall it seems like the number of complete players is really down. No shooters in the game AT ALL. 

I can't wait for next year's class. They are going to be great! 



> Agreed. I really like Powe. It was my first time to really see him in action. If he is only 80%, like they said, then watch out. True he may be a little short but he doesn't seem to worry about that. I'm salavating at the thought of him and Ike Diagu battling it out next year.


There should be some great post battles in the Pac-10 next year. Diogu at Az State is clearly the best playe in the league, but Arizona is going to be darn fun to watch with Ebi playing next to Frye. That combo has to already be making opponents turn pale! Powe will also look nice next to Tamir. 



> See first remarks. Perkins disappointed but then again he has disappointed for the last year. I don't know what happened to his shoulder but he is still miles away from being the player he could be.


I really didn't think he got the chance to show much. He was also at a natural disadvantage with all those 6-10 Darius Miles clones out there. How often is he going to have two of those guys coming from the weakside, with James Lang on his back? 




> Again, agreed. Brown will be what Kelvin Torbert should have been at MSU. He and Cotton will be one of the funnest backcourts to watch in the next four years. Brown is similiar to McCants of UNC. I like what he brings to the table.


Brown is going to be awesome. He seems to have a fairly complete offensive game. 

He's undersized like McCants, but other than that I don't see much of a comparison. Brown plays above the rim and seems like he is developing a nice midrange game. McCants is athletic, but not in Brown's leauge. Rashad doesn't have much of a midrange game, and does some things down low that no other 6-3 player would even attempt. McCants is truly a unique player, IMO. 



> It was my first time to see Mike Jones. And I like what I saw. Maryland has a knack of developing great shooting guards of late and Jones will be the most explosive one College Park has seen in a very, very long time.


Agreed. Maybe a little less developed than Brown, but taller. I was shocked by his athleticism. 



> Giddens didn't show what he can really do. A high flyer that moves well on the perimeter is just scary. Good to see he made the AA squad.


I didn't know what to make of Giddens. He has a really unorthodox shot, but he was making it last night. He obviously can jump, but he seemed to be a little clunky on the perimeter. 



> Chris Paul will shine at Wake Forest. He has all the tools. This game didn't bring them all out but he is fundamental, smart, humble, and extremely skilled.


I wish I would have paid more attention to this guy...



> Brooks will be a good PG in Eugene. He'd learn a lot from another quiet unsuspecting point named Luke. Talk about a great mentor. By the way, what was up with the Anthony Mason inspired hair.


A lot of these PG's really don't get a chance to shine. Guys like Aaron Miles, Sean Dockery, Mo Williams and Carlos Hurt were pretty much in the same boat. 

I guess it's probably tough for a PG to come in a instantly prove that you're the best on the floor, like Felton did last year. 



> I think Shakur is the best point guard in this class. He didn't get to show it off too much in this game but like Paul, Shakur will become a star. Arizona saw the talent and took him and forced another great guard in Will Bynum out.


I'm sure you're right. Players don't get ranked as high as Shakur is for nothing. I just didn't see much last night at all. 



> Kris Humphries is a fundamental player so it didn't surprise me that he didn't shine. Anyone catch those arms though? Wow. He'll be a great Duke player but has a log jam of players in front of him.


It was more than just not shining. It was forcing something every time he touched the ball. Brian Butch didn't shine, because nobody would pass it to him. Humphries got touches, but attempted to score on three guys every time he got the ball. That mindset is going to get him nowhere at Duke, especially considering he's going to be sitting on the bench for a season or two. He was clearly the most selfish player on the court last night.


----------



## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

> I know I am probably quite biased as a fan of a certain player, but I think you all need to realize that although these kids are unbelieavbley talented basketball players, they are still just that...KIDS. Some of them aren't even 18 years old yet. They still live at home, still ride the bus to school (unless somehow they manage to own a Hummer), and they still go to the movies with their friends. To say that their skills are just average or to point out each & every flaw in their game is just wrong. Just because some of these boys aren't "King James" does not mean they don't deserve the praise & recognition as opposed to the criticizing remarks I see here.


I apologize if I ripped a player that you know personally, but this is an NBA Draft board. It's a given that all these players have incredible skills, but even as HS seniors, these guys are thinking about the NBA. They deserve to be evaluated on their NBA potential. That's all I'm doing. 

These kids need to hear about their strengths and weaknesses. As history has proven, being a McD's All-American can mean nothing on the next level. Personally, I think honest evaluation is what most of those players need. 



> Also, while I'm on my soapbox to say that a player possibly faked an injury?? You should be ashamed of yourself! These kids didn't make it to this level or get into this game by faking injuries or not giving their all.


I'm just telling it like I saw it...


----------



## jsm27 (Jan 9, 2003)

I do not think Perkins faked that injury. He needed this to be a showcase for him in case he decides to make the jump. To bail on that would be bad. The fact that he did get hurt may hurt him if he declares.

Besides, the way he was wincing, I believe he was honestly hurt. Some things you just can't fake.


----------



## JustinYoung (Jul 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>h-e-a-t-h-e-r</b>!
> I know I am probably quite biased as a fan of a certain player, but I think you all need to realize that although these kids are unbelieavbley talented basketball players, they are still just that...KIDS. Some of them aren't even 18 years old yet. They still live at home, still ride the bus to school (unless somehow they manage to own a Hummer), and they still go to the movies with their friends. To say that their skills are just average or to point out each & every flaw in their game is just wrong. Just because some of these boys aren't "King James" does not mean they don't deserve the praise & recognition as opposed to the criticizing remarks I see here.


While I agree that these are just kids and their youth shouldn't be tainted, you also have to realize that this is the All American game featuring the best of the best across the country. They will all be playing at the national level for the next four years (or shorter). Plus there are seven legitimate straight-to-the-NBA prospects in the league. This is the forum for that type of discussion.


----------



## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

Just saw bits and pieces (was watching Hawks-Pistons) but that long guy that committed to Zona looked AWESOME. He was making plays left and right and Paul (Wake Forest) has moves...... ACC is gonna be the best conference reeeeeeeall shortly


----------



## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

1st note: Shakur wasn't running the point when he was in the game.

2nd: I think Brian Butch will have the best pro career out of all the post players in this game. Lang doesn't have a chance. Perkins looks decent.

3rd: Villanueva looks worse every time I see him. His athleticism is not NBA out of this world (like Darius Miles, and Outlaw) and he doesn't have the handle or heart of Ebi.

4th: Speaking of Ebi, the only other HS player I would spend a first round pick on. I think he is going to be a lock down defender in the NBA. If he can develop some offense in college....oh my!

Oh and this HS class is subpar. Other than Lebron *NONE* of these guys have the kind of game displayed by Bender at the HS level. Bender was closer to lebron than the rest were to him...and Bender ain't close to Lebron! My guess is the best pro prospects to come out of this class were not in Cleveland.


----------



## Mongolmike (Jun 11, 2002)

*the tall and the short of it*

there were two players that made an impression on me (not including James - he's a local, so I've seen a lot of him... ok, I will comment on him. I think he had an agenda. He wanted to make an impression that he is unselfish and a great passer... which he did in the first half. AND, he wanted to be the game's MVP and set the scoring record, which he tried to do in the second half. He was clearly forcing his shots... especially his 3 pointers. Like was repeated over and over, he does need to work on his 3. Certain games this year he was on fire from the 3, but that was not his "go-to" shot during the season. His team had 2 others- Corey Jones, and Dru Joyce as the main 3 pters.... anyway, he was forcing his outside shot in the second half.... and that hurt his overall game review)

The player who really impressed, was Lavendar. He will be an impact player (at Okla?), but I've got to make a comparison: T.J. Ford. Explosive, can dish, can create, can shoot. BUT, but, but.... height is ALWAYS gonna be an issue, AND a hinderance to both these players in the NBA. I am not saying it is fair, but the powers that be in the pros RARELY give a short guy a fair chance. Mugsey Boges, Spud Webb, Earl Boykins can all play.... but the coach and GM are always looking for a taller PG, and these guys are the "sparkplug off the bench". It isn't fair, because theses guys can run a team and pass and score... but it is just a reality of life in the NBA. Ford and Lavendar are going to be lumped in the same mold... Great H.S. players, Exciting college players, but back-up roles in the pros. That being said, Lavendar impressed me most last night.

The player a lot of people are impressed with is Villaneuva. I was not. Yes, the kid has great hops... but other than throw some impressive slams down, that is all he did. Yes, he can jump, but he didn't create any shots, he wasn't a force on the boards, he didn't do any shut-down defense (yes, there were some kids playing defense:Ebi and Jones for two), he hardly passed the ball.... since I'm a Cavs fan, he reminds me of Darius Miles. Open court - he is a terror. Skying for an alley-opp - awesome. Half-court set, or defense - nada. He is another kid that has gotten by on great athletic talent, but has not learned the game or fundamentals. He can dominate in H.S., and will be a force in the Big Ten, but will probably not progress well in the NBA. Guys like OZZY drool all over this kind of kid, but to me, they end up like D Miles, or Swift, or Qyntel Woods.... highlight film on ESPN, but they don't play in the flow of the game, or greatly contribute to the success of the TEAM. He (Villaneuva) will certainly improve his game, but he has a lot to learn. Compared to the impact on the game by Lavendar.... Lavendar took control of the offense when he was in... Villaneuva was the recipient of some good passes.

On the other hand, Ebi also impressed me. He didn't force the offense, and put out alot of energy on defense. He ahd some blocks, and some tough rebounds. I would take this kid in a second! He is the kind of kid that can really, really help a program because he brings what Villaneuva lacks AND provides the hops and shooting besides.

If I was a college team, and was able to take 5 kids as my recruits, I would take:

C- Perkins. I thought he outplayed, out muscled Lang.
PF- Ebi
SF- LeBron
SG- Jones (played a good game on both ends)
PG- Lavendar

Depending upon what conference they were in, they could make the 64 as freshman, and by the end of their sophmore year they would be a solid contender for NCAA championship. Anyway, that's what I saw last night. Also, I really wanted to see Deng too.... ah well, it was fun to watch.... although Coach Wooden wasn't overly impressed!


----------



## Mongolmike (Jun 11, 2002)

*RIGHT*



> Originally posted by <b>MemphisX</b>!
> 1st note: Shakur wasn't running the point when he was in the game.
> 
> 2nd: I think Brian Butch will have the best pro career out of all the post players in this game. Lang doesn't have a chance. Perkins looks decent.
> ...


MemphisX, you posted this while I was writing mine.... we both agree. I'm not sure about Butch tho.... he didn't play that much.... looked a little like the "deer in the headlights" out there, but he hustled hard, ran hard, had a nice touch. I see him as a tweener in the pros.

Glad to see someone else was not impressed with Villaneuva, but overly impressed with Ebi. Maybe you and I watch for different things during a game then most. I too would QUICKLY pick this kid in the first round. I would take him between 5-10 even. Stacey Augman comes to mind..... a lock-down defender, decent offense, good team player.

About Lang, they said he'd lost 70 lbs., and wanted to lose 30 more. I was not impressed, but losing 30 more might help him a lot. Reminds me of Robert Tractor Traylor. Decent hands, quick feet, weight will always be a problem, and can be over-matched by a taller or stronger center.


----------



## OZZY (Jun 14, 2002)

MemphisX:

Brain Butch will be the best out of all of the Bigs in the game?:laugh: 

*Ok just look back to the Kaman threads, skinny centers don't always do that well in the NBA. And Butch is rail thin, he has nice shooting ability but so what, so does Stepania on the Miami Heat and you don't see him ripping it up! He can't play defense and there was a reason why no one passed him the ball. And how can you say James Lang will not be better. Lang played great in that game, sure he is over-weight but so what, he showed great athletic ability for a man 300 lbs! He is agile, strong down low and can rebound, James Lang will be a solid NBA center in the future. True Perkins did not play great but to base a prospects future off of one meaningless High school All Star game is pretty dumb!

blabal97:

*What is with ripping on local product Kris Humphries? He played fine in that game, if you said to me before it started that Kris would get 16 points and 5 rebounds I would think that is great! Sure he looked out of control but look at the freaking frame he has to build around. And in high school he was not experience in playing in a open run and shoot game, but I think he did pretty well. He never has played that pace before, but he kept up with the best players in the country and showed a nice jump shot and the ability to drive the lane. Mark this down, Kris Humphries will not be a bad player at Duke, and if he is it is only because he never gets to play, just like Shelden Williams in the begining of the year. That is the only think that will keep him form being a future pro, and is one reason why I wish he went to another school.

*How can you say Shakur was a flop? It is one freaking game, and if anyone can pick out great PG's it is Lute! Shakur will be a great PG in the near future under coach Olsen!


*And why do you say LeBron is not athletic? Come'on! He was the fastest player on the court and he is 6-7 230! He penetrated any time he wanted to. And believe me he made Villanueva look way better than he is. LeBron penetrated and game Villanueva almost 4 high light dunks, sure they were awesome but remember who passed it to him! Villanueva showed no outside game, but he can get wide open dunks though...from LeBron...


*Man LeBron already has haters, I would hate to be in his shoes, the only way people will give him his props is if he is the best player in the NBA. And if he isn't he will get this **** all the time. That would be annoying as hell...*

Remember this is one basketball game, I don't think that many scouts take it that seriously, because come'on no one plays defense.


----------



## Mongolmike (Jun 11, 2002)

*OZZY????*



> Originally posted by <b>OZZY</b>!
> MemphisX:
> 
> 
> Mark this down, Kris Humphries will not be a bad player at Duke,


OZZY? Are you not feeling well? I can't believe I read one of your posts giving the Duke program a little respect! (I am not a Dukie, but I've read your feelings about the program!) So, you're saying that maybe Humphries might be able to turn that program around a little?!?


----------



## Springsteen (Jan 24, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>OZZY</b>!
> *Man LeBron already has haters, I would hate to be in his shoes, the only way people will give him his props is if he is the best player in the NBA. And if he isn't he will get this **** all the time. That would be annoying as hell...*


You'd give your left nut, your right arm, and your mom to be in Lebron's shoes.


----------



## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

> *What is with ripping on local product Kris Humphries? He played fine in that game, if you said to me before it started that Kris would get 16 points and 5 rebounds I would think that is great! Sure he looked out of control but look at the freaking frame he has to build around. And in high school he was not experience in playing in a open run and shoot game, but I think he did pretty well. He never has played that pace before, but he kept up with the best players in the country and showed a nice jump shot and the ability to drive the lane. Mark this down, Kris Humphries will not be a bad player at Duke, and if he is it is only because he never gets to play, just like Shelden Williams in the begining of the year. That is the only think that will keep him form being a future pro, and is one reason why I wish he went to another school.


I don't even think you read what I said. He has the make of a decent player, but he embarrased himself out there last night. I'm guessing he attempted to make a move and ended up turning it over or temporarily losing the ball 7-10 times. His entire approach was so selfish that it stood out amongst a crowd of selfish players. I don't care how many points he scored, he played like crap. If he doesn't fix the attitude, he won't last at Duke. The only argument you have is that he's from Minnesota, and that automatically makes him an NBA prospect. Well, you've got me there! 



> *How can you say Shakur was a flop? It is one freaking game, and if anyone can pick out great PG's it is Lute! Shakur will be a great PG in the near future under coach Olsen!


So your response for me calling Shakur a flop in the McDonald's game is that it was just one game? Come on now...




> *And why do you say LeBron is not athletic? Come'on! He was the fastest player on the court and he is 6-7 230!


I would like you to point out exactly where I said LeBron isn't athletic. 

IMO, Ebi, Outlaw, and Villenueva are all significantly more athletic. I'm not ripping James - I just expected a little more, especially in his ability to create scoring opportunities for himself. 

Like I DID say, I hope it was just an off night.


----------



## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

> Sure he looked out of control but look at the freaking frame he has to build around. And in high school he was not experience in playing in a open run and shoot game, but I think he did pretty well. He never has played that pace before, but he kept up with the best players in the country and showed a nice jump shot and the ability to drive the lane.


Ability to drive the lane? Are you kidding me? Every time he put the ball on the floor he lost it. He had one nice steal and a three from the corner, but that was it. The rest were essentially garbage points. 

You, like most MN natives, have a real problem seeing through your hometown blinders when it comes to local sports. Kirby Puckett is a sexual predator, Randy Moss tried to kill somebody last winter, Rick Rickert is a tweener. Get over it.


----------



## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>OZZY</b>!
> MemphisX:
> 
> Brain Butch will be the best out of all of the Bigs in the game?:laugh:
> ...


Butch is rail thin at 17-18, in 3-4 years when he goes to the League he will be big enough. He has already developed a decent jump shot.

Lang needs to do more than lose 30 pounds, he needs to grom at least 3 inches. Villanueva is at least 2 inches taller than he is. He does not have the height to play the 5 in the league. he is not Tractor Traylor because Tractor was much more athletic.

My list on future pro potential goes:
1. King James
2. Ebi
3. Butch
4. Shakur
5. Brandon Bender (I think he and Powe were the most skilled power players)


----------



## BigChris (Jul 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>MemphisX</b>!
> My list on future pro potential goes:
> 1. King James
> 2. Ebi
> ...


Nice top 5.

For me it'd be:

1. James
2. Deng
3. Shakur
4. Ebi
5. Villanueva

Brown and Cotton are gonna make MSU a pretty scary team next year.


----------



## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

> 5. Brandon Bender (I think he and Powe were the most skilled power players)


I think you mean Brandon Bass, going to LSU. Wasn't Bender one of Pitino's first highly touted Louisville recruits that flamed out during his freshman year?


----------



## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Springsteen</b>!
> 
> 
> You'd give your left nut, your right arm, and your mom to be in Lebron's shoes.


i probably would give a nut.


----------



## 22ryno (Mar 17, 2003)

Why is every one dissing Charlie. Ask some anyone who was at ABCD Camp about him and they will tell you this kid is a pro. He didn't get to show all his skills because he didn't dominate the ball. He can pass, shoot, dribble, and yes dunk. All of this at 6'10". He reminds everyone of Lamar Odom. I hope goes to college and does a Carmello Anthony to prove you haters wrong.


----------



## dr-dru (Feb 9, 2003)

i don't think anyone is dissin charles. hes got the freak athelthic ability to get into the NBA. i think not everyone's giving him enough credit because they are just rating what they saw from the all star game, and he was mostly feeding off of lebron.


----------



## Tragedy (Dec 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>OZZY</b>!
> MemphisX:
> 
> 
> *And why do you say LeBron is not athletic? Come'on! He was the fastest player on the court and he is 6-7 230! He penetrated any time he wanted to. And believe me he made Villanueva look way better than he is. LeBron penetrated and game Villanueva almost 4 high light dunks, sure they were awesome but remember who passed it to him! Villanueva showed no outside game, but he can get wide open dunks though...from LeBron...


i thought i was the only one who saw that... that what... 8 of Villanueva's points came directly from Lebron? 

i guess yall are not seeing the same Lebron that i am... because the only player who even resembled the way lebron moved was Lavendar, the short kid on the east squad.

LeBron moved very well with, and without the ball.. choosing to defer to teammates before he scored... even going up for the dunks it seemed that it wasnt trying to over exert himself.... why risk a freak accident?

i will admit his jumped needs ALOT of work... along with his defense... but his jumper is just... UGLY...lol 

but his court vision (the no look passes, needle passes c'mon... you cant teach that) is tops... he knows where everyone on the court is...


----------



## Siouxperior (Jan 15, 2003)

James Lang = 6'10 version of Tractor Trailor!


----------



## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>blabla97</b>!
> 
> 
> I think you mean Brandon Bass, going to LSU. Wasn't Bender one of Pitino's first highly touted Louisville recruits that flamed out during his freshman year?


Yep, you are correct.

Also, I haven't seen much of Deng so I have no opinion on him. Ditto on Olu (supposedly the 2nd best SG before the ACL).

Lang might be better served to go pro this year because this is as high as his value will ever be.:laugh:


----------



## OZZY (Jun 14, 2002)

Well blabla97 maybe the part where you say "he isn't nearly as athletic as I thought" To me that statement says you don't think he is athletic.

What he didn't dunk it on the break away and now your pissed off... He was the fastest player on the court against the best high school players in the country. And to say he is not athletic is just plain dumb.

And I think Kris will make a good prospect because this kid is build like a brick! And phyisical ability is very important at the next level. And did you read my post? I said he had trouble with his handle because he plays the 4 and 5 in high school. So obviously he is not experienced handling the basketball. But he did take the "best of the best" to the hoop a few times. And yeah he shot to much but it is a All Star game, no one will pass you the ball so you have to shoot the damn ball when you can!

And your little great prospect Butch, will be a either a ok player like or just a plan flop in the Association. The kid is skinny and will always be skinny, and shooting ability at center is good but so is size!


_And about your thoughts on Minnesota athletes, well I see a little anger there, what are your one of those fans that gets depressed when a athlete gets in trouble. "noooooooo Kirby is a human being and makes mistakes....nooooo!!!!" How dare they act like human beings right! What are they some mystical idol that do nothing morally wrong!!! Why aren't they perfect like yourself huh? How about you just move to Wisconsin, oh yeah, then you will just hate their athletes when they start to fail or do something wrong in the public eye...:no:GIVE IT UP!_

I'm not sitting on this board saying Longar Longar, Lawerence McKenzie, Steven Neal, and James Davis are great pro prospects. Why? Well because they aren't at this time, they still need to prove themselves. But I think Humphries has proven alot alrady.


----------



## OZZY (Jun 14, 2002)

mongolmike:

Dude I have said before I like some Duke players, just not all of the. I like Duhon, I really like Shelden Williams and I liked Carlos Boozer last year, heck I'm the only supported of Casey Sanders on this board, and he did get 5 blocks last night.... I even thought Boozer would be good in the pros, if you don't believe me just ask truth. 

But the players I did not like last year AKA Jay Williams and Mike Dunleavy, and well how are they doing this year......


----------



## Tom (Jul 15, 2002)

i think EBI is great...huge fan to be, and Kris Humphries is HUGELY talented...i'm amazed so many missed this.


----------



## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

> Well blabla97 maybe the part where you say "he isn't nearly as athletic as I thought" To me that statement says you don't think he is athletic.


That's your mistake, not mine...

It's perfectly acceptable for people to talk about a player not meeting expectations, especially when they are Lebron James-type expectations. There really isn't any other way I could have indicated what I was trying to say. This is 100% you jumping to conclusions, and getting called on it. 




> nd I think Kris will make a good prospect because this kid is build like a brick! And phyisical ability is very important at the next level. And did you read my post? I said he had trouble with his handle because he plays the 4 and 5 in high school. So obviously he is not experienced handling the basketball.


So why the heck was he trying to handle the basketball? He was CLEARLY trying to be something he CLEARLY isn't. That was my point, and you've done nothing to refute it. I've admitted from the beginning that he showed some potential, but that he played like crap. 




> But he did take the "best of the best" to the hoop a few times. And yeah he shot to much but it is a All Star game, no one will pass you the ball so you have to shoot the damn ball when you can!


When did he take the "best of the best" to the hoop? I remember him consistently trying, and consistently being denied. Maybe he was able to a couple of times, but then you are forgetting about the 5-10 times he ended up getting smoked. 



> And your little great prospect Butch, will be a either a ok player like or just a plan flop in the Association. The kid is skinny and will always be skinny, and shooting ability at center is good but so is size!


You need to slow down and think a bit before you post. I never said anything about Butch's chances in "the Association" 



> And about your thoughts on Minnesota athletes, well I see a little anger there, what are your one of those fans that gets depressed when a athlete gets in trouble. "noooooooo Kirby is a human being and makes mistakes....nooooo!!!!" How dare they act like human beings right! What are they some mystical idol that do nothing morally wrong!!! Why aren't they perfect like yourself huh? How about you just move to Wisconsin, oh yeah, then you will just hate their athletes when they start to fail or do something wrong in the public eye...GIVE IT UP!


I don't have one bit of bias against Minnesota sports. The current Twins team is probably my favorite in all of professional sports. I've really enjoyed watching the Timberwovles this season as well, as KG is really progressing as a leader. 

What I DO have a bias against is MN sports fans who have this undending desire to prove that their home state is the best in everything. They treat their atheletes like Gods, and most make it their personal agenda to inform the world how good Minnesota actually is. 

When Randy Moss ran over a uniformed officer last spring, die-hard Vikings fans tried to blame it on the lady who got ran over. 

After the Vikes got smoked by the Giants in the playoffs a couple of years ago, the top story on the local news that night was about how the Giants were stealing radio signals. It turns out, the report was written by a canadian journalist who had absolutely no backing for what was said. 

This kind of crap happens on a daily basis. There is no doubt in my mind that if this had come out about Puckett during his playing days, the entire state would be proclaiming his innocence. 

Ozzy, you are no different. You see what you want to see when it comes to MN sports, and I am going to call you out whenever you post your Minnesota propaganda. So if you want to call Rick Rickert a future lottery pick, go right ahead. But don't get defensive when I tell you that you're full of it!


----------



## Springsteen (Jan 24, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>OZZY</b>!
> 
> But the players I did not like last year AKA Jay Williams and Mike Dunleavy, and well how are they doing this year......


10 years down the road, there is no chance Boozer's career will been as productive and successful as either of these two guys.

I wouldn't be claiming myself a genius right away if I was you! I mean, it's only their rookie years. I've seen Mike play 8 times this year, and each game I see him play he looks more comfortable in the offense and guarding his man. He does little things really well, such as rebound and pass. Granted, he still has a ways to go yet.

As for Jay Will. I believe he had a triple double earlier in the year, or at least close to one. And I remember the other night, you were claiming Rodney White was now a success in the league (or something along that line - it's in the Nuggets form anyway) when he threw one down. (I'd also like to point out earlier in this thread you said that someone shouldn't be judged on one game...so you have to find some sort of consistency there). So, by no means is Jay Will a failure. Sure, he's been slightly disapointing, because he was the best college player last year, and he was expected to contend for the ROY, but like Mike, he's had some team chemistry problems, meaning, unlike the other guys who are doing well, he isn't getting as much time as he may have on a different team.

But really...wait and see before you pass judgement on any of the players from this year. A rookie year is often not a solid reflection of how a player is going to pan out. 

I also think, everytime you remind us of a correct prediction you have made, you should be obliged to mention how just as many times you have been wrong. It's only fair. Don't want any newcomers to think you are a god!


----------



## OZZY (Jun 14, 2002)

blabla97:

You think I'm just a biased fan right. How long have you posted on this board, not for very long if you think I only look at Minnesota prospects. 

And for you to say Kris Humphries is not a good player or prospect, well I feel sorry you are that uneducated to actually believe that, same goes for Rick Rickert.


Sorry if I'm jumping to conclusions but I do not know you as a poster. I do not know if you actually know basketball, or if your just shooting off your mouth. 

Eventually I will find out if you know anything about the game and have anything close to a good opinion on it. But until then I will just think you a poster that is just starting crap.


How about you search under "prospects" user name "OZZY" and look at some of the prospect lists I created for football and basketball. If I was bias I would only have Minnesota players and I would rank them at the top of everything, but in those lists I don't.

_And since when was it a crime to follow local products that were raised in the same state you were? And you really need to look at more of my posts if you think I only look at MN products..._


----------



## OZZY (Jun 14, 2002)

> Don't want any newcomers to think your a god!


Well I'am... 

But back to the posters, I do not respect anything new posters say until they prove the know something about the game. Like you Springsteen I did not respect you one bit, but after awhile I got to know that you have a pretty good handle on the game. 

But blabla97 just from this thread, I don't think your that smart when it comes to prospects..


----------



## OZZY (Jun 14, 2002)

I'm tired of defending my views on Dunleavy and Williams, so if you want to get my response look in a search because I have given it about a freaking million times!

I never though they would be great, and by their play they are not great. And since when did the time they have been in the league matter, they were "experienced" college players... I give them one more year, but I don't see Jay taking Crawfords spot on the Bulls at PG and I don't see Dunleavy dominating the West at SF.


----------



## Springsteen (Jan 24, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>OZZY</b>!
> And since when did the time they have been in the league matter, they were "experienced" college players...


Good point. Because everyone knows, if you play 3 years in college, you come into the league as a finished problem. 

You even point out that the term experienced is subjective. Not your best work.


----------



## OZZY (Jun 14, 2002)

You might be right, I will give him one more year to show he is a great player. But he will never, never be as good as people thought he woudl be!


----------



## Springsteen (Jan 24, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>OZZY</b>!
> You might be right, I will give him one more year to show he is a great player. But he will never, never be as good as people thought he woudl be!


Who are these people?

And if you come back with Mike being the next Larry Bird, then you've misunderstood what was said. He was said to have "larry bird-like game". In that he was able to do a lot with limited athletic ability. That he was a solid shooter, passer and rebounder. I mean, wouldn't the next-Larry Bird have been drafted first?


----------



## Bball_Doctor (Dec 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>blabla97</b>!
> 
> 
> King Lebron - Isn't nearly as athletic as I thought he was, and his shot was downright awful tonight. He only won MVP because everybody was giving him open dunks. Some nice passing. His best asset is his NBA-ready body. I sure hope tonight was just an off night...


Everything else I agree with but WHAT!?! Not nearly as athletic...that kid showed his 40+ inch vertical. He got so high on some dunks it's crazy. Just think about it, Kobe in the slam dunk contest just got to the rim when he did the inbetween the legs. Lebron can do it wayyyy over the rim and in a GAME! Kid is as athletic as they come coming out of HS. Lebron also has crazy passing...his passing ability reminds me of Magic...oh if he only had Magic's dribble too. Lebron will be a stud and I have been saying this since he was 17. He IS the real deal and HS players like Luol Deng and Outlaw (who I am very high of - read my past posts) don't come close to this kid's league. Heck even Kobe doesn't and I followed Kobe through HS. Scoring they are the same (Kobe scored 32 ppg in his last year) but Lebron has just about everything else...it's scarry really! I am not saying he will be better than Kobe, his desire to become that will dictate that. I am simply saying that Lebron has all the skill, talent, and more importantly INTANGIBLES to do so. The only question is his DESIRE.


----------



## brandinboggs (Jan 12, 2003)

*brian butch*

butch is really good i watched him during state here in wi and he was unbeleiveable he had 45 against milw. custer he has amzing touch around the basket and all the way out to 3 point land defensivly kinda timid but still gonna block shots for being 7 foot tall


----------



## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

> And for you to say Kris Humphries is not a good player or prospect, well I feel sorry you are that uneducated to actually believe that, same goes for Rick Rickert.


There you go again, attributing things to me that I NEVER SAID. I have even admitted that Humphries showed some potential late in the game. However, watching him play in the state tourney, seeing him in interviews, and hearing things from people who have come into contact with the guy, I have serious doubts about his attitutude and mental approach. 

My main point is that he played like crap in the McDonald's game, which he most certainly did. There really isn't any argument against it. You aren't even responding to this. You are responding in a "how dare you!" manner to my saying a negative thing about a player you obviously like. And I think we all know why that is...

As for Rickert, he's not a lotto pick like you seem to think. I NEVER SAID Rickert wasn't a great player or even that he's not a great prospect. Just that he has some work to do before he becomes lottery material. You tweaked. 

So excuse me for thinking that you are a biased MN sports fan, but your recent behavior speaks for itself. 



> Sorry if I'm jumping to conclusions but I do not know you as a poster. I do not know if you actually know basketball, or if your just shooting off your mouth.
> 
> Eventually I will find out if you know anything about the game and have anything close to a good opinion on it. But until then I will just think you a poster that is just starting crap.


You need to get off your high horse. You attack everybody the minute they disagree with you, and hold your own opinion absolutely way too highly. 

I hate to say it, but nobody is ever going to pay you to tell them that Kris Humphries has a good basketball body. It's a given to anybody who follows basketball and has seen the guy play. 

I've seen your self-promoting posts about your track record as a "scout", and it didn't do anything to impress me. You deserve no more respect on this board than anybody else, but seem to demand it because you are trying to become a pro scout. 

I will call BS BS, whether it's out of your mouth or anybody else's. I will also give props when somebody makes a good point. 

Don't get defensive and agitated when somebody says something that you disagree with! It's going to happen your entire life, so you might as well get used to it now...


----------



## MAS RipCity (Feb 22, 2003)

ozzy love the quote in your sig. south park rules! aaron brooks for frosh of the year!:yes:


----------



## Balla123456789 (Jul 15, 2002)

*The Big Men*

James Lang- Fat boy can play is a bigger version of the Tractor a big guy with some bounce he had some emphatic Dunks. a great offensive rebounder

Kendrick Perkins- OK is somewhat of a groundhog bu has good footwork and good running the floor

Jackie Butler- Preety athletic no offensive game but probally the best shot-blocker in the class he has nice hops too. but a big project


----------

