# Darko's Minutes



## AdamIllman (May 12, 2003)

Do you guys not find it frustrating that Larry Brown refuses to put Darko in with 4 or 5 minutes left and a 20+ point lead? It pisses me off and I'm a Raptors fan.


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## PacersguyUSA (Sep 1, 2002)

No, because that's actually more minutes than he deserves.


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## kamego (Dec 29, 2003)

Don't mind pacer he isn't a piston fan lol. Darko did fine tonight in a few minutes out there. We didn't put our bench in until Miami did. It wasn't anything to do with Darko tonight.


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## ballocks (May 15, 2003)

i posted about it a long time ago but i guess it hasn't really been addressed: the darko-detroit saga hasn't gotten enough attention, imo. sure, there are those impatient fans who want to label him a bust, etc., and do so vocally, but there hasn't been as much darko talk as i would have expected.

first of all, i guess you can't really criticize men like joe dumars and larry brown since they haven't lost a playoff series since they selected milicic, but i can't be the only one who wonders what kind of a draft pick that really was. i mean, if they weren't going to play whoever they were going to pick, maybe they should have dealt that pick for some current assets that could help the team? i don't know, maybe they tried, but from what i remember it was darko milicic with no consideration being paid to the alternatives (trade or otherwise). i can't say i agree with that (or agreed with that then) but, hey, who am i to question the move: they haven't been eliminated since they made that "mistake". 

still, i can't help but wonder what a waste of an asset it seems to have been. i mean, they could have surely gotten some additional help to make their championship contender even _better_. i mean, darko doesn't seem to be helping them in any way- is he? if they had traded #2 for the kind of player who could have contributed to a larry brown team, would that have been an unnecessary distraction? is that how dumars justifies the move- did they have too many bodies already? i don't know. it's just so strange.

and really, regardless of how they view milicic at the moment, i can't say i would agree to develop him in the same way- championship(s) or not. have his two years on the bench helped him at all? he must view his nba experience to date as an utter waste of time. furthermore, i'm honestly sort of afraid that his talent hasn't been given sufficient room to grow- i think he may have paid a penalty (in a way) by sitting on the bench for two years and not really doing much productive "work". i think that kind of development program would be more of a hindrance than a help for the majority of professional ballplayers, and i just wonder what group darko milicic belongs to.

all things considered, it's just a strange draft pick to justify- one of the most _bizarre_ selections in recent memory, no question. and if the pistons win another title this summer, it'll be deemed even _more_ strange. the darko pick (followed by carmelo, bosh and wade) couldn't have been a good move... could it?

peace


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

kamego said:


> Don't mind pacer he isn't a piston fan lol.


So not being a Pistons fan makes your opinion worthless and you unintelligent?


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## ChrisWoj (May 17, 2005)

Pacers Fan said:


> So not being a Pistons fan makes your opinion worthless and you unintelligent?


Nah, just the ones that come on our forum only to put down one of our players every time he is mentioned. I swear thats all I've seen from PacersGuy since I started coming here... and even before I joined here, a Sixers fan that occasionally skims the Pistons board informed me of PacersGuy's attitude on Darko.

I apologize for the previous poster, he made a broad generalization, and a more directed insult would have been better.

-Chris.


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

ChrisWoj said:


> Nah, just the ones that come on our forum only to put down one of our players every time he is mentioned. I swear thats all I've seen from PacersGuy since I started coming here... and even before I joined here, a Sixers fan that occasionally skims the Pistons board informed me of PacersGuy's attitude on Darko.


Try looking through his posts. He's actually complemented the Pistons many times.


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## P33r~ (Nov 22, 2004)

Pacers Fan said:


> So not being a Pistons fan makes your opinion worthless and you unintelligent?


i think kamego said that incase pacerguys opinion would be mistakenly thought of as the general perspective of a pistons fan... if that made sense.

And yeah it's nice having pacersguy give more well-rounded responses in reference to the pistons nowadays. Seeing a lot more compliments than i should be seeing from him


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## ChrisWoj (May 17, 2005)

I shall do so tomorrow morning before I disc golf... I had it pointed out to me and he had a rep beforehand, so I am biased. I will admit that, likely I am wrong... easy enough to admit. I'll check it out, and hopefully his reputation amongst myself and a select few is undeserved. Since I am willing to trust Pacers Fan, I apologize to you in advance PacersGuy.


-Chris.


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## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

Pacersguy's last 10 post or so have been complimentary to the Pistons, I have no idea what's going on with him, maybe he's sick. Anyways it's good to see.


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## Copper (Dec 9, 2004)

CJ said:


> Pacersguy's last 10 post or so have been complimentary to the Pistons, I have no idea what's going on with him, maybe he's sick. Anyways it's good to see.


 My sentiments exactly. Someone call 911 :banana: :banana:


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## hirschmanz (Jun 3, 2005)

back to darko, what gets my goat about the whole situation is that they could have selected none other than dwyane wade with that 2nd pick, the very man who is giving them such a hard time in the ECF. He wouldn't get the same playing time, nor would his skills have developed so quickly (or maybe they would), but the worst that could happen is that he's not playing for the heat right now. Any thoughts?


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## gelf123 (Jun 4, 2005)

Darko doesn't deserve any more minutes than he already gets. Theres nothing to argue about. It's the pistons fault for making him the #1 pick and watching him go down the drain and not improve year by year. Honestly, wheres the kid headed? Why don't they trade him or something to a team that might actually play him? I'm sure he has some sort of skill. You rarely see a first draft pick go and sit on the bench for a season.


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## hirschmanz (Jun 3, 2005)

gelf123 said:


> Darko doesn't deserve any more minutes than he already gets. Theres nothing to argue about. It's the pistons fault for making him the #1 pick and watching him go down the drain and not improve year by year. Honestly, wheres the kid headed? Why don't they trade him or something to a team that might actually play him? I'm sure he has some sort of skill. You rarely see a first draft pick go and sit on the bench for a season.


don't forget, gelfand the great, that Darko was indeed the number 2 pick. The pistons' choice for that pick was anyone but lebron. Darko wasn't quite what I was thinking about, but hey. For the Eastern Conference number one seed the year before to get the number 2 pick in the draft excited lots of fans, but darko?

He's got more rings than the rest of that rookie class.


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## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

hirschmanz said:


> back to darko, what gets my goat about the whole situation is that they could have selected none other than dwyane wade with that 2nd pick, the very man who is giving them such a hard time in the ECF. He wouldn't get the same playing time, nor would his skills have developed so quickly (or maybe they would), but the worst that could happen is that he's not playing for the heat right now. Any thoughts?


Hindsight is 20/20. No team back then would've picked Wade over Darko. Simply put Darko was viewed as the better prospect (long term). I doubt Wade would be as good as he is now if he played for the Pistons. His confidence is sky high right now, and for a basketball player that means a whole lot.


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## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

gelf123 said:


> Why don't they trade him or something to a team that might actually play him? I'm sure he has some sort of skill. You rarely see a first draft pick go and sit on the bench for a season.


Probaly because they think he's still going to be a good player, why would you trade a guy like that?


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## Copper (Dec 9, 2004)

I must admit, leading into the draft I was high on Wade. I was hoping Joe D was playin possum with the whole Darko idea and was actually gonna take Wade. Much to my chagrin I was mistaken. Regardless, I feel the bashing of Darko is unjust, I as much as anyone else would like to see him get some minutes and really display the talent he displayed in the predraft workouts. However he is a young fella playin behind Ben Sheed and Dyess. There arent many players, let alone unexperienced sophs out there that would crack that lineup. With the addition of Sheed last year Darkos opportunity to get any minutes really took a hit. Since ther draft Joe has said Darko was a 3-4 year project and Ill give Joe all the slack in the world with the way he has performed in the past. My biggest fear isnt that Darko would be a bust( cause he has shown signs of legit talent) my fear is that by the time he does get the minutes and proves he has game? he will depart and head to another team simply out of spite for the way he has been treated in his first few years here. I would simply ask those that are eager to label him a bust, hold off judgement til he actually gets a legitimate shot at some steady minutes and then reassess his worth accordingly. How can anyone pass judgement on a player that has seen so little playing time and the time he has seen has been few and far inbetween.


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## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

I wanted Carmelo at first. In fact I wanted Melo after I saw him play his first game at Syracuse. I was content with us taking Darko when everyone was saying how great he was, combine that with the fact that he was a 7 footer and I was sold.

If we could do it over again I'd take Wade and the safer pick of Bosh over Darko.


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## hirschmanz (Jun 3, 2005)

Copper said:


> How can anyone pass judgement on a player that has seen so little playing time and the time he has seen has been few and far inbetween.


I agree with giving Joe all the slack he needs, but there's gotta be a reason Darko isn't seeing more minutes. It's not as if the pistons frontcourt is 5 players deep. Instead of being a bench contributor, however, darko is a novelty, an insult to the other team. Why? If he has the potential to come in the game and play well, why isn't he?


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## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

hirschmanz said:


> I agree with giving Joe all the slack he needs, but there's gotta be a reason Darko isn't seeing more minutes. It's not as if the pistons frontcourt is 5 players deep. Instead of being a bench contributor, however, darko is a novelty, an insult to the other team. Why? If he has the potential to come in the game and play well, why isn't he?



A combination of things. For one Larry Brown. It's no secret he either doesn't like or doesn't trust rookies. And the other reason is the players in front of him. I guess there could've been a way to find time to get him 10 minutes a game here and there, but what price do you play for giving him those minutes. At times he's looked like he could be a contributing player and at other times he looks completely lost.


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## Copper (Dec 9, 2004)

I still believe that a 7 footer with mobility is a valueable commodity in this league. Even if Darko never becomes a 20 -10 center He will always be a mobile 7 footer and 260+. With the plethora of sf/sg/g in the league, any time you can pick up a Big with potential? I say you cant pass it up. Remember he is still growing physically and maturity wise. Bangin with Sheed Dyess Ben and EC every day in practice will do nothing but make him better. He has shown nice footwork in the post and I have seen him shoot the rock from all over the floor( and Im not talkin pregame warmups) he can shoot. Im not sure why he looks so out of place when he does get in and my only explaination would be his nerves. I am steadfast in my belief that he will surprise alot of folks if and when he does see regular minutes and is able to get rid of the nervous anxiety he apparently has when he does get his spot minutes. Once he can get used to the idea of playin regular minutes and not try to do things so fast when Larry puts him in in garbage minutes? he will begin to show what he has.


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## hirschmanz (Jun 3, 2005)

Copper said:


> I still believe that a 7 footer with mobility is a valueable commodity in this league. Even if Darko never becomes a 20 -10 center He will always be a mobile 7 footer and 260+. With the plethora of sf/sg/g in the league, any time you can pick up a Big with potential? I say you cant pass it up. Remember he is still growing physically and maturity wise. Bangin with Sheed Dyess Ben and EC every day in practice will do nothing but make him better. He has shown nice footwork in the post and I have seen him shoot the rock from all over the floor( and Im not talkin pregame warmups) he can shoot. Im not sure why he looks so out of place when he does get in and my only explaination would be his nerves. I am steadfast in my belief that he will surprise alot of folks if and when he does see regular minutes and is able to get rid of the nervous anxiety he apparently has when he does get his spot minutes. Once he can get used to the idea of playin regular minutes and not try to do things so fast when Larry puts him in in garbage minutes? he will begin to show what he has.


After reading this I wonder if it would have been healthier for him to not be on the pistons? Just the fact that this is a thread shows that the discussion swirling him is bound to have an affect on his psyche. He is still growing maturity wise, an excellent point Copper, but could his maturity growth be stunted by playing for such a high quality team and seeing more criticism than minutes?


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## Copper (Dec 9, 2004)

hirschmanz said:


> I agree with giving Joe all the slack he needs, but there's gotta be a reason Darko isn't seeing more minutes. It's not as if the pistons frontcourt is 5 players deep. Instead of being a bench contributor, however, darko is a novelty, an insult to the other team. Why? If he has the potential to come in the game and play well, why isn't he?


 Larry is a firm believer in doing things HIS way, Larry keeps the rotation very tight and at times over plays the starters. Darko is very inexperienced and young. 2 things Larry does not like. During the season there is little time to teach and mold a youngster in practice, Darko was setback by breaking his hand last year in the finals and was unable to participate in the summer league or play for his olympic team. so he came back to the Pistons preseason training camp the same as he left the finals. I believe if he stays healthy this summer he will grow and be able to contribute next year in a supporting role.


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## Copper (Dec 9, 2004)

hirschmanz said:


> After reading this I wonder if it would have been healthier for him to not be on the pistons? Just the fact that this is a thread shows that the discussion swirling him is bound to have an affect on his psyche. He is still growing maturity wise, an excellent point Copper, but could his maturity growth be stunted by playing for such a high quality team and seeing more criticism than minutes?


 A very good point, but a double edged sword. At what point does playing for LB and alongside such a high quality starting 5 stop being an asset as far as learning how to win and seeing what it takes on a daily basis to remain at or near the top? Or would it hinder his learning curve more to be on a losing team such as Atlanta and not get a glimpse at what it takes to win and what a cohesive team looks like. Sure if he went to a losing team he would get alot more minutes and would undoubtedly be thrust into the fire, but he was so young that if he didnt perform right away? what would the media say? what would the fans say?


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## hirschmanz (Jun 3, 2005)

Copper said:


> A very good point, but a double edged sword. At what point does playing for LB and alongside such a high quality starting 5 stop being an asset as far as learning how to win and seeing what it takes on a daily basis to remain at or near the top? Or would it hinder his learning curve more to be on a losing team such as Atlanta and not get a glimpse at what it takes to win and what a cohesive team looks like. Sure if he went to a losing team he would get alot more minutes and would undoubtedly be thrust into the fire, but he was so young that if he didnt perform right away? what would the media say? what would the fans say?


excellent, excellent point :clap: :clap: :clap:

but it would be nice to see him play with the attitude it takes to win, if that is what he is learning. Right now it seems he plays with the attitude that he is just excited to be playing, which is good for now, but not the long run.


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## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

Copper said:


> I believe if he stays healthy this summer he will grow and be able to contribute next year in a supporting role.



This will be critical. I think Joe D. is elated that he may finally be able to get Darko to work out and play the way they want him to when they want him to. Good point.


I don't know how I feel about Darko's offense. I know he's not that bad offensively, but as I said about Wade, he just needs confidence. Once he gets that those 15 footers will start to drop no problem (ala the Hawks game). I don't think he'll ever be a dominat scorer, maybe in the 17 ppg range even though it's too early to even try to call that, but I do see him being a great to dominat defender. And as you pointed out, when he gets it all together maturity wise and growing into his body his already good defense will get even better with the intangibles he has.


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## Copper (Dec 9, 2004)

hirschmanz said:


> excellent, excellent point :clap: :clap: :clap:
> 
> but it would be nice to see him play with the attitude it takes to win, if that is what he is learning. Right now it seems he plays with the attitude that he is just excited to be playing, which is good for now, but not the long run.


 I think he does get excited just to be out there. Not so long ago he looked unhappy to be getting the same garbage minutes and he played uninspired. Recently he seems to be happy with those minutes and his energy level shows it, this is a sign that he is maturing and that bodes well for his and the teams future.
As far as his scoring? who knows? He has the footwork and height to be a dominant low post threat. Given time to perfect the hook shot and his touch off glass? he could be a 15-20 pt scorer, but that is purely optimistic speculation. He needs playing time to increase his confidence and the only realistic playing time is summer league and training camp. I suggest we all hold off judgement( good or bad ) until he is actually able to participate in these and base our judgement at that point.


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## PacersguyUSA (Sep 1, 2002)

Wouldn't it be great if someday a marquee matchup would be Darko vs. Bender?


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

PacersguyUSA said:


> Wouldn't it be great if someday a marquee matchup would be Darko vs. Bender?


Even if Darko would play er could play, Bender would be sitting on the bench with a cast on.


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## PacersguyUSA (Sep 1, 2002)

Pacers Fan said:


> Even if Darko would play er could play, Bender would be sitting on the bench with a cast on.


I bet Bender with a cast would still OWN a healthy Darko.


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## kamego (Dec 29, 2003)

Your just jealous we have a human victory cigar and you don't


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## PacersguyUSA (Sep 1, 2002)

kamego said:


> Your just jealous we have a human victory cigar and you don't


Our historic human victory cigar, Primoz Brezec, is actually good.


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## kamego (Dec 29, 2003)

Brezec hasn't broken his hand in a NBA finals clincher game  Thats a proving ground for any good human victory cigar


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## LanierFan (Oct 5, 2004)

We might actually be able to use Darko against San Antonio. Not saying we will, but he could actually play an Elden Campbell role with occasional minutes against Nesterovic or a little extra length against Duncan.


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## MacDanny 6 (Jun 7, 2002)

LanierFan said:


> We might actually be able to use Darko against San Antonio.


And the winner of the "What was I thinking when I said that" award goes to...


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## Timmons (May 25, 2005)

CJ said:


> I wanted Carmelo at first. In fact I wanted Melo after I saw him play his first game at Syracuse. I was content with us taking Darko when everyone was saying how great he was, combine that with the fact that he was a 7 footer and I was sold.
> 
> If we could do it over again I'd take Wade and the safer pick of Bosh over Darko.


I don't think you all can judge Darko so quickly. I mean look at Jermaine O'Neal! Four years.
The Pistons drafted a guy they knew would take years to develop. What an asset to have on the bench if he pans out. You win a ring maybe two then you have insurance in what hopefully will turn out to be a solid guy. 
I know his skills seem lacking in the garbage minutes he gets, but what does he accomplish in practice? I know what Iverson said about practice, but maybe Darko will keep the Pistons in business in the next few years. :curse: 

Don't give up all hope yet. Hard for me to say because Skita who my Nugs drafted is kinda like Darko, but Skita has no clue what Basketball is. The Nugs passed Amare twice (Skita and Nene) the Pistons passed Melo, Wade and Bosh. Time will tell, but time is not up.


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## Timmons (May 25, 2005)

PacersguyUSA said:


> I bet Bender with a cast would still OWN a healthy Darko.


That is some funny S%^&. I'd pay to see that game, it's already being played out in my head. Hahahaha


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## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

thetobin73 said:


> I don't think you all can judge Darko so quickly. I mean look at Jermaine O'Neal! Four years.
> The Pistons drafted a guy they knew would take years to develop. What an asset to have on the bench if he pans out. You win a ring maybe two then you have insurance in what hopefully will turn out to be a solid guy.
> I know his skills seem lacking in the garbage minutes he gets, but what does he accomplish in practice? I know what Iverson said about practice, but maybe Darko will keep the Pistons in business in the next few years. :curse:
> 
> Don't give up all hope yet. Hard for me to say because Skita who my Nugs drafted is kinda like Darko, but Skita has no clue what Basketball is. The Nugs passed Amare twice (Skita and Nene) the Pistons passed Melo, Wade and Bosh. Time will tell, but time is not up.


I agree with most of that and I've said it all in the past... yet I'd still take Wade and Bosh over Darko if we could do it again.


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## Timmons (May 25, 2005)

CJ said:


> I agree with most of that and I've said it all in the past... yet I'd still take Wade and Bosh over Darko if we could do it again.


Hey I'm becoming the minority of folks stickin' by the Nugs for drafting Melo over Wade. Guys taken later in the draft always blow up and there are always the Sam Bowies.


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## LanierFan (Oct 5, 2004)

Franco 5 said:


> And the winner of the "What was I thinking when I said that" award goes to...


...your mama, for saying "Why not?" to your father.


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## Biggestfanoftheknicks (Apr 14, 2005)

I'm quite happy with the way the Pistons have treated Darko. We have a lot of cap space soon and I am sure we will take a look his way. New york has a large serbian/russian community he will love it here, maybe we can even find a coach to help him shake of those mental cobwebs. 

If you're a pistons fan I empathize with your frustration. Darko is a talented kid. Is he 20 yet? Anyway, the kid can ball, however it's readily apparent that he has no confidence and is one of those types of players who can't make the transition from what's done in pratice to what's done in games. It's glaringly obvious that for better or worse he needs to be stuck into games and get the experience necessary to become the player he can be. There are so many tools he has that he doesn't use in his game it's stupid. I mean the guy is probably the most laterally quick 7 footer in the league or close to it, and I've never seen him slash to the hoop once in the NBA. What the hell is up with that?


Also this year he seemed to have some serious motivation issues where even in garbage time, if he didn't get the ball he would mop around. Also, his positioning for boards sucked, but I am imagine both his positioning and attitude are easily cured.


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## kamego (Dec 29, 2003)

He turns 20 in a few weeks. His attitue will be a problem for any team because of his excessive partying on off days. He is sticking to his roots by drinking in excess as of now. I am sure the Pistons will keep him along for many more years though. I wouldn't expect him to hit the free agent market because his agent is a strong supporter of the rout the Pistons are taking with him.


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## AZwildcats4 (Feb 9, 2004)

kamego said:


> He turns 20 in a few weeks. His attitue will be a problem for any team because of his excessive partying on off days. He is sticking to his roots by drinking in excess as of now. I am sure the Pistons will keep him along for many more years though. I wouldn't expect him to hit the free agent market because his agent is a strong supporter of the rout the Pistons are taking with him.


uh...come again


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## kamego (Dec 29, 2003)

Darko has a drinking problem that will be fixed as he grows up. He's only 19 for now and he is still adjusting to American life. His agent is very happy with the Pistons currently and don't expect him to leave as a free agent because of it.


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## Lope31 (Jun 11, 2002)

Uh, we have one picture of Darko drunk and a European stereotype to work with. How does that necessarily mean Darko has a drinking problem? Unless there is something I haven't read or seen yet.


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## MagnusPinus (Aug 27, 2003)

I wouldn't judge Darko until he plays for another caoch..Larry in the Plympics has not played young guys like Amare,Bron... Darko was definitely unlicky... and is pretty obvious that getting frustrated he is also having a lazy attitude


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## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

> "We want Dar-ko!"
> 
> 
> Detroit's fans chant those three words tirelessly whenever the Pistons have a big lead in the fourth quarter, hoping coach Larry Brown will give them a rare glimpse of Darko Milicic.
> ...



Same ole. Same ole and that's not a bash on Darko. It's good that he wants to play and I hope that next season that can become a reality for him. Playing in the summer should help.


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## Lope31 (Jun 11, 2002)

If the league locks out I am going to go on a cross country road trip egging the houses of every NBA owner. No CBA means no summer leage and one angry Lope31. :curse:

Anybody in?


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## LanierFan (Oct 5, 2004)

Just a little perspective, driven home by last night's garbage time ...

Think back to his rookie year, when all Darko had was that weak finger roll/scoop shot. Now he's got a genuine go-to move, with that banker from the left block. It's tough for righties to handle and gives him the option of passing back to the left wing or corner, which are favorite spots for our guards. So even though it's been frustrating, he's starting to develop tools that will be valuable to the team next year.


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