# The refs,



## t1no (Jul 10, 2005)

Well since the playoffs are over and we already lost to the Heat, i want to bring this subject up. How were the refs in the finals? Yes sure people can say the refs weren't the reason we lost the finals, but with all those calls i can't imagine how frustrating it was for the players. Some say the Heat played better then us, but i don't think so because all of those games we only lost by a few points, the Heat didn't play great either it was mostly Wade getting hot and going to the FT line in the fourth quarter.
Everybody post the most bs call they saw in the finals,
Mine was when Wade did a fade away and fell on his *** in the first quarter of game 6 and they called the foul on Terry, funny thing was that Terry was nowhere close to Wade.
Not looking for arguements, just want opinions.


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## danred7 (Apr 19, 2006)

They wheren't the Reason YOU LOST the Finals. They where the Reason the HEAT WON.

The upperhand was handed on a silver platter to the Heat. (Pun Intended)


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## t1no (Jul 10, 2005)

and also when Wade elbowed Dirk in the fourth quarter of game 6, my second favorite.


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## Dragnsmke1 (Jul 29, 2002)

the Mavs didnt adjust to the refs and the Heat did...that was completely the Mavs fault...the reason the Mavs lost is becuase evrytime they got a decent lead they tried to play half court, run the clock out even though theres still 11 minutes left in the game, offense...


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## StackAttack (Mar 15, 2006)

Was there bad officiating? Sure. In fact, terrible. Worst I've ever seen. But the fact is the Mavs should've won anyway. It's kind of hard to win though when you settle for jumpshots and end up shooting under 40% in 2 of 6 games.


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## danred7 (Apr 19, 2006)

They got to the Finals jump shooting.

Aside from one of the losses, they where all close games, decided in last few minutes, BY THE REFS.


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## t1no (Jul 10, 2005)

StackAttack said:


> Was there bad officiating? Sure. In fact, terrible. Worst I've ever seen. But the fact is the Mavs should've won anyway. It's kind of hard to win though when you settle for jumpshots and end up shooting under 40% in 2 of 6 games.


Agreed, but it's also frustrating because everytime Stack or Harris tried to go in the refs never called any kind of fouls, Shaq was abusing them.


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## t1no (Jul 10, 2005)

Dragnsmke1 said:


> the Mavs didnt adjust to the refs and the Heat did...that was completely the Mavs fault...the reason the Mavs lost is becuase evrytime they got a decent lead they tried to play half court, run the clock out even though theres still 11 minutes left in the game, offense...


The Mavs didn't adjust to the refs and the Heat did? Well it was a lot easier for the Heat to adjust lol. You are right the Mavericks didn't play well in the finals, mostly Dirk but the Heat also did not play well in the finals. and about running the clock, i also agree with you but don't blame the players for that.


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## StackAttack (Mar 15, 2006)

danred7 said:


> They got to the Finals jump shooting.
> 
> Aside from one of the losses, they where all close games, decided in last few minutes, BY THE REFS.


You're talking about the Mavs of old. The second round and out Mavs. The Don Nelson Mavs. The Avery Bunch is NOT a jumpshooting team. Go ahead and watch the last play of regulation in Game 7 against the Spurs. In the past, we would've taken a three point attempt there.


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## t1no (Jul 10, 2005)

StackAttack said:


> You're talking about the Mavs of old. The second round and out Mavs. The Don Nelson Mavs. The Avery Bunch is NOT a jumpshooting team. Go ahead and watch the last play of regulation in Game 7 against the Spurs. In the past, we would've taken a three point attempt there.


That's true, the Mavericks did take a lot of jumpshots, mostly open jumpshots but they would have went in a lot more if Dirk had a good series. When Dirk is playing well, the Mavericks are a different team.


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## StackAttack (Mar 15, 2006)

t1no said:


> That's true, the Mavericks did take a lot of jumpshots, mostly open jumpshots but they would have went in a lot more if Dirk had a good series. When Dirk is *taking the rock to the hole*, the Mavericks are a different team.


Fixed.


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## Dragnsmke1 (Jul 29, 2002)

t1no said:


> The Mavs didn't adjust to the refs and the Heat did? Well it was a lot easier for the Heat to adjust lol. You are right the Mavericks didn't play well in the finals, mostly Dirk but the Heat also did not play well in the finals. and about running the clock, i also agree with you but don't blame the players for that.


It was easier for the Heat to adjust becuase when we had them against the ropes they just gave the ball to Wade and let him do whatever he wanted...since he drove everytime he got a lot of iffy calls...the Mavs would try to run the clock for 22 seconds then jack up any shot, besides it being a bad shot, we didnt gain the refs respevt for our drive to the hoop becuase we did it only once out of evey 4 plays as oppossed to the Heat driving 3 out of 4...I said before the playoffs started we have to gain the respect of the refs, and the way you do that is no matter how bad the calls or noncalls are...thats why its the mavs players fault, they didnt force the issue...


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## edwardcyh (Dec 13, 2005)

I found this from one of Cuban's blog articles.

Interesting read:

http://www.82games.com/game5refs.htm


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## danred7 (Apr 19, 2006)

Dragnsmke1 said:


> It was easier for the Heat to adjust becuase when we had them against the ropes they just gave the ball to Wade and let him do whatever he wanted...since he drove everytime he got a lot of iffy calls...the Mavs would try to run the clock for 22 seconds then jack up any shot, besides it being a bad shot, we didnt gain the refs respevt for our drive to the hoop becuase we did it only once out of evey 4 plays as oppossed to the Heat driving 3 out of 4...I said before the playoffs started we have to gain the respect of the refs, and the way you do that is no matter how bad the calls or noncalls are...thats why its the mavs players fault, they didnt force the issue...


So because Wade drove to the Hoop a bunch of times, he earned enough respect to Elbow Dirk in the F'n Chest and get Two Free Throws out of it?????


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## t1no (Jul 10, 2005)

Harris and Stack went in the hole MANY times but the refs never called anything, so why would they keep going in the hole if the refs are not going to blow their whistles.?


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## t1no (Jul 10, 2005)

edwardcyh said:


> I found this from one of Cuban's blog articles.
> 
> Interesting read:
> 
> http://www.82games.com/game5refs.htm


Nice,


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## StackAttack (Mar 15, 2006)

What's better is this:

http://www.82games.com/gamerefs.htm

I'm not saying there wasn't lopsided officiating. Even Heat fans should be man enough to admit that. Just...the Mavs should have won anyway.


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## Dragnsmke1 (Jul 29, 2002)

danred7 said:


> So because Wade drove to the Hoop a bunch of times, he earned enough respect to Elbow Dirk in the F'n Chest and get Two Free Throws out of it?????


I didnt say its right or fair, thats just how the NBA is reffed...


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## danred7 (Apr 19, 2006)

Dragnsmke1 said:


> I didnt say its right or fair, thats just how the NBA is reffed...


Last I Checked if an Offensive player pushes off its an offensive foul. The Games were reffed in favor of Miami. Period End of Story.


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## Jet (Jul 1, 2005)

...Those are really good article/stat thingys... but, I cant say that the Heat got favored, because I would love to watch the series again, but its not gonna happen unless I get the Championship DVD for the Heat and Im not doing that. It looks like Devin got a lot of calls not favoring him, but I guess thats whats going to happen when you have Wade gaurding you. I've said this a lot, and I agree with it, but its not the refs who lose the game/or turn it around for you, its how you respond to the calls that did/did not go your way. *I said I cant say that the Heat were favored by the refs, but I clearly think that.. lol*


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## Dragnsmke1 (Jul 29, 2002)

danred7 said:


> Last I Checked if an Offensive player pushes off its an offensive foul. The Games were reffed in favor of Miami. Period End of Story.


I see your point but if it was so badly reffed why did the mavs have 2 blowout victories and were working on the 3rd when the whole demenor of the team change? This was the 1st series(besides Memphis) where we werent the "underdogs" . The Mavs went up by 2 games, were up by 14 with 8 minutes left in the 3rd game and got this air about them that the Chip was gonna be handed to them, Miami kept the attitude of they have to go snatch it...


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## t1no (Jul 10, 2005)

Dragnsmke1 said:


> I see your point but if it was so badly reffed why did the mavs have 2 blowout victories and were working on the 3rd when the whole demenor of the team change? This was the 1st series(besides Memphis) where we werent the "underdogs" . The Mavs went up by 2 games, were up by 14 with 8 minutes left in the 3rd game and got this air about them that the Chip was gonna be handed to them, Miami kept the attitude of they have to go snatch it...


Wade gets hot and refs gives him a few bad calls, they are back in the game. Sorry but you can't defend someone if the refs won't let you touch him. It's frustrating, they didn't try their hardest because they know that the refs would call a foul on them.


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## Roscoe Sheed (Jun 19, 2006)

Obviously the series tilted on that horrible call at the end of game 5. Should have definitely been a no call. If it were called correctly, Wade's miss means Dallas wins game 5 and would have won the series. Simple as that.

The Wade push-off in game 6 was horrible too. Then, they refuse to call GP's jersey pull on the other side of the court. It was the worst officiated finals in nba history.


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## Flash is the Future (May 12, 2006)

I've complained about the way refs officiate Shaq and have realized over time that when things are going bad, you never get the calls. Refs decide a lot of questionable calls based on momentum. Ever since the Heat came back to win game 3, they had the momentum and Dallas was on the retreat and weren't getting the calls. Oh and by the way at the end of game 5 Dirk's little hand check on Wade shouldn't have been called a foul, which it was. However after that Harris grabbed Wade's shoulder to prevent him from getting the and 1 which was a definate foul, so basically the refs just called the foul on the wrong person. The one bad call I saw was GP's grab of Terry's jersey that resulted in no call, but I'm not quite sure the refs were in a place to see it because Terry was coming off a screen. Bottom line is officiating evens out eventually. In the 1st and 2nd round the Heat got tons of BS offensive fouls called on Shaq. The refs may give the benefit of the doubt to Wade, but they certainly don't to Shaq, so their bad calls on Shaq and good calls on Wade (for us) even out.


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## Saint Baller (May 3, 2006)

Flash is the Future said:


> I've complained about the way refs officiate Shaq and have realized over time that when things are going bad, you never get the calls. Refs decide a lot of questionable calls based on momentum. Ever since the Heat came back to win game 3, they had the momentum and Dallas was on the retreat and weren't getting the calls. Oh and by the way at the end of game 5 Dirk's little hand check on Wade shouldn't have been called a foul, which it was. However after that Harris grabbed Wade's shoulder to prevent him from getting the and 1 which was a definate foul, so basically the refs just called the foul on the wrong person. The one bad call I saw was GP's grab of Terry's jersey that resulted in no call, but I'm not quite sure the refs were in a place to see it because Terry was coming off a screen. Bottom line is officiating evens out eventually. In the 1st and 2nd round the Heat got tons of BS offensive fouls called on Shaq. The refs may give the benefit of the doubt to Wade, but they certainly don't to Shaq, so their bad calls on Shaq and good calls on Wade (for us) even out.


 Dirk was 2 feet away from him yes he could have extended but his hands were there in case Wade missed the layup and no call was made to rebound it, if your going to mkae a call, call it on the right guy.


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## t1no (Jul 10, 2005)

Flash is the Future said:


> I've complained about the way refs officiate Shaq and have realized over time that when things are going bad, you never get the calls. Refs decide a lot of questionable calls based on momentum. Ever since the Heat came back to win game 3, they had the momentum and Dallas was on the retreat and weren't getting the calls. Oh and by the way at the end of game 5 Dirk's little hand check on Wade shouldn't have been called a foul, which it was. However after that Harris grabbed Wade's shoulder to prevent him from getting the and 1 which was a definate foul, so basically the refs just called the foul on the wrong person. The one bad call I saw was GP's grab of Terry's jersey that resulted in no call, but I'm not quite sure the refs were in a place to see it because Terry was coming off a screen. Bottom line is officiating evens out eventually. In the 1st and 2nd round the Heat got tons of BS offensive fouls called on Shaq. The refs may give the benefit of the doubt to Wade, but they certainly don't to Shaq, so their bad calls on Shaq and good calls on Wade (for us) even out.


It had nothing to do with momentum, Wade is a superstar and that is why the refs favored him. Wade is the most loved NBA player and that is why the refs favored him. "hand check" and i wonder how many times Haslem did that to Dirk (and no Dirk did not hand check Wade on that last play, besides the refs didn't call a foul because of a hand check), and "Bottom line is officiating evens out eventually"?? Sorry but i did not see many offensive fouls by Shaq and nothing can make up for the calls on Wade (for the Heat). and plz Flash do not reply (pm me if you want) because i don't want this thread to be full of arguements, i just want to know what the Mavericks fans think, not the Heat fans.


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