# OT: I love Abramovich



## curry_52 (Jul 22, 2002)

This guy is offering between 115 and 120M dollars for Ronaldinho (IMO the best soccer player). All from his pocket. And he is also going after Morientes, the UCL top scorer. 

I would love to have this guy owning my favorite team. Maybe the anti-Reinsdorf? 

Maybe the next Premier League wont be so boring --> Arsenal


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## Bulls_Bulls_Bulls! (Jun 10, 2003)

What this guy's doing to the "Tinkerman"s a disgrace. Truth be told, I thought Chelsea played better last year than they did this year as Chelski, at least in terms of the fluidity and crispness of the passing and general offensive game.

I find it interesting that the core of their players in the CL semi-final was composed of pre-Roman players: Lampard, Terry, Gallas, Gudjonsen (sp?), Hasselbaink, et al. 

Interesting blurb about Ranieri being possibly being linked with...Los Merengues!!! That would be weird..

I presume though, that he'll wind up at Spurs--Pleat's on his way out, after all..

Which means what?? $$$ can't buy a championship and is a poor subsitute for actually buiding a squad (in Ranieri's pidgeon english: "I build squad of players that make up team.."


Next year??? It's probably be the usual: one-nil to the Arsenal!!!

or is that now five-nil/??? Words of wisdom from a "Chicago Gooner..."


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## curry_52 (Jul 22, 2002)

Word is that Deschamps (Monaco's coach) will be coaching Chelsea next season.


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## Bulls_Bulls_Bulls! (Jun 10, 2003)

What happened to Jose Mourino?? I thought he was all signed, sealed and practically delivered. 

I thought i read that Dider just reupped with Monaco???

There must be like a 1,000 rumors on Chelski floating around in cyberspace...


As an Arsenal fan, I must admit that Claudio Ranieri has earned my respect this year: I hope he sticks around.


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## Volcom (Mar 28, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> 
> Maybe the next Premier League wont be so boring --> Arsenal


As an Arsenal fan I dont think this years premiership was boring at all.. 

Watching the world's best player (Thierry Henry) leading his team to an (so far - they should slaughter Leicester tomorrow) unbeaten season has been awesome


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> Word is that Deschamps (Monaco's coach) will be coaching Chelsea next season.


I live in London. And I have yet to hear this one. Its all Mourinho with Van Gaal working in the front office. in fact, Deschamps is rumored to be headed to Juventus

Your right, the premiership was boring, Arsenal was so much better then everyone else that there was real no comparison

I wish Roman was a basketball fan cause he could buy the Bulls. Your right, he is the anti-JR. Arguably the greatest owner in the world


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## BCH (Jun 25, 2002)

Roman is not going to win this way. When you look at the Premeirship it is the a team like Arsenal that have been together that won. ManU have fresh blood and it hasn't always worked out. Of course as soon as Arsenal gets a new stadium, they will be buying players like everyone else (except Abramovich).

Is Ranieri gone yet? I loved how he tried to lower expectations all year. I am sure RA loved that.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BCH</b>!
> Roman is not going to win this way. When you look at the Premeirship it is the a team like Arsenal that have been together that won. ManU have fresh blood and it hasn't always worked out. Of course as soon as Arsenal gets a new stadium, they will be buying players like everyone else (except Abramovich).
> 
> Is Ranieri gone yet? I loved how he tried to lower expectations all year. I am sure RA loved that.


Yeah, a team of stars isnt going to win. just see Real Madrid. But you do have to love his enthusiasm and ambition. a Ronaldinho will close the gap some, but not all the way probably.


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## curry_52 (Jul 22, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> Yeah, a team of stars isnt going to win. just see Real Madrid. But you do have to love his enthusiasm and ambition. a Ronaldinho will close the gap some, but not all the way probably.


Problem is that Real Madrid went for Beckham when they didnt need him. They let Makelele walk when they didnt have a guy to replace him. 
And also Madrid thinks that they will run away with everthing by outscoring (Doh!) the other team instead of trying to avoid getting spanked by lousy teams. DEFENSE! DEFENSE! It seems they recognized this, and Samuel will be their first addition. Great move IMO. When you are preparing your team, it starts with a good GK, then defense and so on. Real did it the other way around. 
Real, unlike that fantastic Brazil from some decades ago, cant afford to receive 3-4-5 goals per contest. It all starts with a good defence. Samuel is a start.


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## curry_52 (Jul 22, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Bulls_Bulls_Bulls!</b>!
> What happened to Jose Mourino?? I thought he was all signed, sealed and practically delivered.
> 
> I thought i read that Dider just reupped with Monaco???
> ...


True, true. José Mourinho had a verbal agreement with Chelsea, but they are also going after Deschamps  
Problem is Deschamps is also linked with Juve, and if he leaves Monaco he will go there IMO (Juve > Chelsea). Didier contracts with Monaco runs through 2005, they didnt extend him...yet.


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## bullet (Jul 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> Word is that Deschamps (Monaco's coach) will be coaching Chelsea next season.


I hear he's going to Juventus to replace Lippi , but I guess Roman can get him if he wants him.

Not the cleanest buisness man in Russia , but a very rich one Indeed.


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## bullet (Jul 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> 
> 
> Problem is that Real Madrid went for Beckham when they didnt need him. They let Makelele walk when they didnt have a guy to replace him.



So very true - Makalele held their slow defense by making sure the ball hardly gets to their side of court.

they should have put their money on Kivo!


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## curry_52 (Jul 22, 2002)

And now Real is also targeting Van Nistelrooy--->ManU then will replace him with Fernando Torres (Great striker from Atletico Madrid).


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## Bulls_Bulls_Bulls! (Jun 10, 2003)

ok, this I don't get: why does Real need "Horse Face" when they already have Ronaldo, Raul, Morientes (announced to be returning from loan), Guiti, Portillo, et al.?????

Samuel I can see, but "Horse Face"??? I heard a rumor that the fee was 40 million pounds, which I guess Man. Ure will gladly take to get that Spanish striker.


This is the problem with Chelski: too many excellent players at each position, not enough comradery, cohesiveness, and team spirit. Too many mercanaries (Veron has been with, what 7 clubs in the span of 8 years???). In the midst of this spending spree, now they're dicking Lampard (their best midfielder) over because he wants a raise??? 

Why don't they take all that money and develop a first class training ground and academy??? Makes much more sense.

In contrast, look at the stability, cohesiveness and team spirit of the Gunners. First class all the way, from Wenger on down.


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## curry_52 (Jul 22, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Bulls_Bulls_Bulls!</b>!
> ok, this I don't get: why does Real need "Horse Face" when they already have Ronaldo, Raul, Morientes (announced to be returning from loan), Guiti, Portillo, et al.?????
> 
> Samuel I can see, but "Horse Face"??? I heard a rumor that the fee was 40 million pounds, which I guess Man. Ure will gladly take to get that Spanish striker.
> ...


I understand your point and this is what generates the wrong atmosphere in the clubhouse. Do you think Ruud will go to Real to play only 30 minutes per game? Or do you think Ronaldo will accept getting benched? Or that Raul, a fan favorite, will gladly take a seat? No. Everyone wants to play and when you have so many stars....its not good. 
Same goes for Totti. Beckham, Zidane, Figo and now Totti? Why dont give Solari a chance? Im tired of this so called stars that dont put what they have to put on the field. 
If you go league by league you will see that the champions are those teams that have a solid defense and have been playing together for a long time. Chemistry is underrated.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> 
> 
> I understand your point and this is what generates the wrong atmosphere in the clubhouse. Do you think Ruud will go to Real to play only 30 minutes per game? Or do you think Ronaldo will accept getting benched? Or that Raul, a fan favorite, will gladly take a seat? No. Everyone wants to play and when you have so many stars....its not good.
> ...


CHEMISTRY IS UNDERRATED. GOOD POINT. Solari should be given a chance. Samuel makes more sense then Totti or Ruud does. But they dont seem to care. And that is why they are underachieving. But interestingly, can Real afford a bidding match with Chelsea? Prob not. And its possible that Chelsea will add Samuel, AND Ronaldo AND Beckham to thier team this offseason while unloading the Petits, Desaillies, Forsells and Mutus of the world


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## curry_52 (Jul 22, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> CHEMISTRY IS UNDERRATED. GOOD POINT. Solari should be given a chance. Samuel makes more sense then Totti or Ruud does. But they dont seem to care. And that is why they are underachieving. But interestingly, can Real afford a bidding match with Chelsea? Prob not. And its possible that Chelsea will add Samuel, AND Ronaldo AND Beckham to thier team this offseason while unloading the Petits, Desaillies, Forsells and Mutus of the world


I read Samuel is going to sign with Real next monday. After going 0-3 (No UCL, Copa del Rey nor Liga) they will reload starting with defense. They wanted Nesta, Milan said no. Samuel is better than Nesta, so I can see Chelsea also going after him. But the real problem isnt defense in the sense of the 4 DB (Say, Roberto Carlos, Pavon, Helguera and Salgado), R-Madrid should adress some concerns regarging their midfield. You need Makeleles, Gattusos, Vieiras, etc. Guys that do the dirty work. Or should we expect Zidane, Figo and Beckham to recover the ball? The answer is yes, but they wont do it and they arent specialists. 

Regarding Chelsea, I dont know if I want them to get Ronaldinho. I love what he has done in Barcelona and I rather watch him play at Nou Camp than in London. But how you say no to 110+M dollars?


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> 
> 
> I read Samuel is going to sign with Real next monday. After going 0-3 (No UCL, Copa del Rey nor Liga) they will reload starting with defense. They wanted Nesta, Milan said no. Samuel is better than Nesta, so I can see Chelsea also going after him. But the real problem isnt defense in the sense of the 4 DB (Say, Roberto Carlos, Pavon, Helguera and Salgado), R-Madrid should adress some concerns regarging their midfield. You need Makeleles, Gattusos, Vieiras, etc. Guys that do the dirty work. Or should we expect Zidane, Figo and Beckham to recover the ball? The answer is yes, but they wont do it and they arent specialists.
> ...


interesting and I 100% agree with you. Interesting news on Samuel to Real.


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

Abramovic is a disgrace.

First of all he is some russian guy who made billions with some suspicious oil buisness.

Second of all he is totally ruining what could be a good balance in soccer by spending stupid amount of money not on the best players but on the biggest names like Ronaldinho.

He will never win like that.

He won't even get all the players he wants because not every player wants to play for such a team when they can play for big clubs with a long and glory tradition.

Abramovic is almost as bad as all those italian and spanish clubs spending money they don't have and creating huge depth.

Real Madrid already had to sell their training facility a year or 2 ago for 400M$ to cover their depth and the rest of money is already flushed down the toilet.

If the FIFA wasn't the biggest joke and most corrupt of any sports association maybe they could finally get something done instead of making utter jokes of decisions under that dictator idiot Sepp Blatter.

Abramovic and Real Madrid are cancers to soccer.


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## curry_52 (Jul 22, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> interesting and I 100% agree with you. Interesting news on Samuel to Real.


What i find odd is that reports indicate that Samuel will take less to play for Real (When we know that for 99% of them all it matters is money). 
This link below (spanish) says Samuel would rather play for Real than Chelsea. Abramovich offered 25M euros and Real 15M Euros, a big difference....and there should be a huge gap contract wise. 
Interesting. I wouldnt say done deal (Samuel to Real), after all...money talks.

http://www.marca.com/edicion/noticia/0,2458,483468,00.html


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> Abramovic is a disgrace.
> 
> First of all he is some russian guy who made billions with some suspicious oil buisness.
> ...


I agree for the most part. However Id like to add that Roman made his money mostly in aluminum and then in oil It wasnt particularly suspicious. The country was in utter chaos and he bought, along with the other oligarchs, mines and oil wells on the cheap. He is a brilliant businessman with ambition to make chelsea the best football team in the world. Though I do agree that how he is going about it at the end of the day probably doesnt win. Real tried it and like Curry said, went 0-3 and might get their manager fired and president ousted


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

Deco is most likely signing with Bayern btw.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> 
> 
> What i find odd is that reports indicate that Samuel will take less to play for Real (When we know that for 99% of them all it matters is money).
> ...


It has to be a cultural preference on his part. I think its a nice addition for Real. However, they do need to find some utility players along the way to round out their team. They are in serious need of about 3 or 4 role players


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## curry_52 (Jul 22, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> Abramovic is a disgrace.
> 
> First of all he is some russian guy who made billions with some suspicious oil buisness.
> ...


I dont know how Abramovich made all his money, and Im not interested in finding out  

Ronaldinho is more than a name, he is terrific. He is one of few soccer players that I would pay my ticket to watch em play. What he did in Barcelona cant be descredited. I mean, Barca made a spectacular run and almost won La Liga....and thats thanks to Ronaldinho. 

And as I said in one of my previous posts, money talks nowadays. Who cares about tradition, history, titles other than fans? Samuel, for example, could care less about how many titles Chelsea has won thus far. And BTW, Rome wasnt built in one day. What tells you that we wont be talking about another great european powerhouse (Chelsea) down the road? It is a start. 

And reagarding young players, theres one reason why Milan, Real Madrid and co are spending $$$$ trying to sign young Africans, or setting some academies in those latitudes. 

I agree with you: FIFA is a joke.


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## curry_52 (Jul 22, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> It has to be a cultural preference on his part. I think its a nice addition for Real. However, they do need to find some utility players along the way to round out their team. They are in serious need of about 3 or 4 role players


Maybe (Cultural preference). I think Samuel isnt a role player, he is one of the best defenders in the world. I would label Makelele, for example, as a role player. Im having a hard time finding very good defenders. :sigh: 
Another problem reagarding Madrid signings is that they rather go after a guy that sells 10000 jerseys per day than the one that will prevent 10 goals per match. Thats a key point. There were better options than Beckham, but who better than Becks to sell Real and its products to Asia? Money, Money, Money.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> 
> 
> Maybe (Cultural preference). I think Samuel isnt a role player, he is one of the best defenders in the world. I would label Makelele, for example, as a role player. Im having a hard time finding very good defenders. :sigh:
> Another problem reagarding Madrid signings is that they rather go after a guy that sells 10000 jerseys per day than the one that will prevent 10 goals per match. Thats a key point. There were better options than Beckham, but who better than Becks to sell Real and its products to Asia? Money, Money, Money.


again I agree with you. 

One interesting on tidbit on Beckham however. They essentially got him for free. Within a weekend of his signing, they sold so many Real Beckham jerseys in Asia and locally that they recouped the transfer. So for them, he wasnt the worst signing per se since they got a world class player for free who might be heading back to England for a little more then they paid for.


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

That is what Real Madrid says officially to justify that Beckham move. Nobody can say for sure if they sold enough jersey to finance that signing.

Also Real probably gets the smallest part of the jersey sales. Beckham certainly gets some money out of it as well and Adidas of course.


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## numlock (Feb 8, 2003)

totally agree with bigamare here. 
Real have been making these marketing noizes since they signed beckham but utd knew exactly his impact and just to add the first 6 months after beckham left there was little to no drop off in these commercial sales.

Its not good for the sport that a team could outbid for every player and so many of the players are only there for the money its sad. I dont like idea of filthy rich guys (dosent help if they made it in a suspect way) buy these teams it just becomes a game to them and that thailand joke who dosent know a thing about liverpool is a joke.


I read that roman and other of his kind bought the oil on the cheap due to their connection to yeltsin. Are there any news on that 1 billion tax fraud (or whatever it was) that came out?


Davids role in barca´s success has to be mentioned

Dont know if over the whole the premiership season was boring. Utd were on top a few months ago and the loss of many players for way too long and the stupidity of one certainly didnt help their cause


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

I heard that Abramovic made his money by selling oil barrels. And it is not known how he acquired those barrels but what I heard was that it was probably missing or stolen property.

Abramovic definately isn't a guy to look up to in my opinion.

With the money he invested I could have acquired an entire team better than that Chelsea team.


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## curry_52 (Jul 22, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>numlock</b>!
> Its not good for the sport that a team could outbid for every player and so many of the players are only there for the money its sad. I dont like idea of filthy rich guys (dosent help if they made it in a suspect way) buy these teams it just becomes a game to them and that thailand joke who dosent know a thing about liverpool is a joke.


There are no New York Yankees in soccer.


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## numlock (Feb 8, 2003)

i dont know enough about the yankees or baseball to fully comment but i do know that the yankess had a history and as far as i know werent just any club on the brink of bankruptcy. I cant see how someone could say he loves abramovich as an owner when the guy had no love for that particular club before he bought it and probably hadnt even heard of it. We dont even know how he sees the whole situation and its future in his head



> With the money he invested I could have acquired an entire team better than that Chelsea team.


hes obviously never gonna get a fair deal since hell pay almost anything. Its also my personal opinion that when the players are there really only for the money they will never give a real constant maximum effort


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## curry_52 (Jul 22, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>numlock</b>!
> i dont know enough about the yankees or baseball to fully comment but i do know that the yankess had a history and as far as i know werent just any club on the brink of bankruptcy. I cant see how someone could say he loves abramovich as an owner when the guy had no love for that particular club before he bought it and probably hadnt even heard of it. We dont even know how he sees the whole situation and its future in his head
> 
> 
> ...


That apllies for almost every owner. Its just business, love has nothing to do with this issue.


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

There are a lot of NY Yankees in soccer.

Bayern in Germany
Juventus in Italy
Real in Spain


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## curry_52 (Jul 22, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> There are a lot of NY Yankees in soccer.
> 
> Bayern in Germany
> ...


Real and Barcelona can battle each other in every sense of the word. 
Milan and Juventus the same.
There isnt one team in soccer that will outbid the rest teams for the best players (As the Yankees do every offseason).


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

Look at their history.

Milan and Barca aren't nearly as succesful as Juventus and Real.


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## numlock (Feb 8, 2003)

> That apllies for almost every owner. Its just business, love has nothing to do with this issue.


I was anwering whether how great an owner he was. I would say love or some little lesser emotion does play a part. Does he care about the club and its history does he even know anything about their history? I think most would want the owner of their team to be a genuine fan



> There isnt one team in soccer that will outbid the rest teams for the best players (As the Yankees do every offseason).


It hasnt happened yet with the best players as ronaldinho left for barca before the russian revolution gathered pace but nobody can outbid them. They have spent like 120m pounds (thinking it over quickly its probably more than most of the big teams spent combined last season) in 12 months and probably have the highest wages (close to 100m a year). They may get beat to the occasional player but if the future zidane, ronaldinho etc is available and the player has no favourite destination its hard to see chelsea not getting him.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> I heard that Abramovic made his money by selling oil barrels. And it is not known how he acquired those barrels but what I heard was that it was probably missing or stolen property.
> 
> Abramovic definately isn't a guy to look up to in my opinion.
> ...


Just a coupe of things. Just a response to this and some other things I have said. In the late 80s, early 90s Russia was chaos. A couple of very smart businessmen stepped up, the oligarchs are what they are called, and bought oil refinieries, Khardovosky, and mines, abrmamovich. Abramovic is no crook. He saw a situation, paid fair market value for it and saw his value appreciate. Roman has some oil holdings, but he make his money in aluminum, not oil. Khardokovsky is who you are thinking of

The reason beckham left ManU is cause he and Fergusons relationship were through. They didnt want to see him but had too. Who would you rather sell him too? Real who is in Spain and you might have to play in the Champs league or Chelsea, who you def have to deal with? They had no choice

As for Beckham selling jerseys, part of his deal was the waving of his image rights. Real made all the profits on those jerseys. They soldan estimates 30 million jerseys in Asia alone. If they made 1 pound per jersey (10 pounds is more like it) then they paid the transfer fee and his salary). Frankly, its conservative to say that they paid the salary. When its all said and done, it might be closer to 3x time what they paid did they take in. and with Abrmamovic (i cant spell his name), they might get their money back anyway. heck arsenal is thinking about going after him as well with a cash and player deal. It was good business for them. And their problems this year arent due to beckham so much as their lack of D. There have been times this year when Beckham has been their best player. Though I agree he wasnt the guy to buy for them,


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## numlock (Feb 8, 2003)

rlucas a few things are wrong in your post

1st beckham was sold before roman´s revolution at chelsea and i dont think he had much intention on staying at utd forever. He only signed a 3 deal (not long for a 27 year old) may 02.

2nd shirt sales. A utd director came out and said that they (utd) had sold close to 2 million shirts one season or one year and they are the most popular team. There is no way that real have sold anything over 3-4-5 million shirts this season. Also asia ,where beckham is most popular, is full of counterfeit stuff and that takes a good chunk of sales



> their problems this year arent due to beckham so much as their lack of D


He is partly. They didnt want to give makelele a new contract and didnt want to buy a new defender instead sign a player that didnt improve them and brough a media circus with him. Every big and important game ive seen real play hes been nothing special

this is what forbes.com says on roman



> Abramovich lost his parents as a child, dropped out of college and then made a fortune in a series of controversial oil export deals in the early 1990s. His fortunes took off in 1995, when he teamed up with Russia's most powerful crony capitalist, Boris Berezovsky, to take over oil giant Sibneft at a fraction of its market value. When Berezovsky fled Russia in 2000 to escape fraud charges, he sold out to Abramovich. Now besides Sibneft, Abramovich has interests in aluminum, TV and automobiles—all held by British-registered Millhouse Capital. Recently blocked merger of Sibneft with rival Yukos (controlled by imprisoned oligarch Mikhail Khodorkovsky); sold part of his auto and aluminum business to partner Oleg Deripaska. These days spending his fortune conspicuously—including paying $400 million for London's Chelsea football club and some of the world's best players.


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## curry_52 (Jul 22, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> Look at their history.
> 
> Milan and Barca aren't nearly as succesful as Juventus and Real.


And then look at the Yankees titles and the rest. 

And then go to search for history outside Italy (Ex how many European cups Milan won, and how many Juventus won).

Point is soccer isnt a 1 team competition or 1 team controlling the market.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>numlock</b>!
> rlucas a few things are wrong in your post
> 
> 1st beckham was sold before roman´s revolution at chelsea and i dont think he had much intention on staying at utd forever. He only signed a 3 deal (not long for a 27 year old) may 02.
> ...


maybe the millions came from oil, but the BILLIONS CAME FROM ALUMINUM. He bought the mines in the southern part of Russia on the cheap. People need to remember, the country was a lawless place for about 5 years. 

I have seen plenty of Real games this year as well. Beckham has been their best supplier of the ball. Raul and Figo havent been particularly special and Zidane hasnt been in this bad of form in 5 years. His words, not mine. You cant blame beckham for their lack of D. They should have bought a defender. beckham has done his job

I hadnt thought of the counterfeit jerseys. But the Real President has said numerous times that Beckham paid his own transfer wages. As for what Man U said, remember they had Beckham for a number of years. They arent going to be replacing jerseys often. So if they sold 2 milllion Becks jerseys, just think how many Real sold being a new team for him.


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## curry_52 (Jul 22, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>numlock</b>!
> 
> 
> I was anwering whether how great an owner he was. I would say love or some little lesser emotion does play a part. Does he care about the club and its history does he even know anything about their history? I think most would want the owner of their team to be a genuine fan


As I said earlier, you wont find many "genuine" fans owning their team. Its somewhat hard to mix feelings and business, and as long as Abramovich tries to improve his team, I dont have a problem with that. 
I rather have Abramovich than (RIP) Jesus Gil, that was a genuine fan, but left his team in ruins.


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## numlock (Feb 8, 2003)

well you certainly wont find as many genuine fans owning a team that are as rich as roman. But given the choice of two billionaires one fan and the other hadnt heard of the team the day before youd pick the fan right?



> I have seen plenty of Real games this year as well. Beckham has been their best supplier of the ball. Raul and Figo havent been particularly special and Zidane hasnt been in this bad of form in 5 years. His words, not mine. You cant blame beckham for their lack of D. They should have bought a defender. beckham has done his job
> 
> I hadnt thought of the counterfeit jerseys. But the Real President has said numerous times that Beckham paid his own transfer wages. As for what Man U said, remember they had Beckham for a number of years. They arent going to be replacing jerseys often. So if they sold 2 milllion Becks jerseys, just think how many Real sold being a new team for him.



Perez says alot of things. If beckham paid for his own transfer then real wouldnt suddenly (after they sold makelele) offered to pay utd a lump sum instead of installments for beckham. The 2 million number was utd with beckham, with ruud, with keane with all those guys and there was/is a huge gap to the next team. Utd change main kits (uniform) every 2 years and beckhams last season was a new kit year and also the start of the partnership with nike.


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## patta09 (Jul 2, 2003)

> They wanted Nesta, Milan said no. Samuel is better than Nesta, so I can see Chelsea also going after him.


samuel is a great defender but to say that he is better than nesta is just not true. nesta is by far the best defender in the world rite now. there is no doubt as i watch serie a almost every week and i see nesta and samuel both perform. nesta is the one player that wood turn real's joke a defense to one of the best in the world. same with chelsea. i have only ever seen him play one bad game for milan and that was when we lost 4-0 against depor and he just came bak from injury. i mite sound bias coz i go for milan, but nesta is clearly the best defender in the world. 

the difference between milan and other big clubs is they know how to build a winning team withouht spending millions of dollars like real and chelsea.


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## curry_52 (Jul 22, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>patta09</b>!
> 
> 
> samuel is a great defender but to say that he is better than nesta is just not true. nesta is by far the best defender in the world rite now. there is no doubt as i watch serie a almost every week and i see nesta and samuel both perform. nesta is the one player that wood turn real's joke a defense to one of the best in the world. same with chelsea. i have only ever seen him play one bad game for milan and that was when we lost 4-0 against depor and he just came bak from injury. i mite sound bias coz i go for milan, but nesta is clearly the best defender in the world.
> ...


I also support AC Milan but I would rather have Samuel than Nesta. Samuel is a much better overall defender. 
And I think Nesta weaknesses are a little bit hidden because he plays alongside Maldini (He is like 40 and still one of the best), and has Gattuso and Pirlo in front of him. He isnt that much exposed. 

Nevertheless, we are talking about 2 great defenders.


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## curry_52 (Jul 22, 2002)

Talking about defenders, Jaap Stam is now property of AC Milan. Another good move IMO. 

And if Totti doesnt end wearing Real's white, theres a chance he will end up being Rossonero.  

Kaka + Totti + Shevchenko + Inzaghi + Milan's D = Unfair


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## numlock (Feb 8, 2003)

totti has said hell only leave for real and if he were to leave roma and not join real cashrich teams from england would come with offers.

I saw crespo was also linked with milan



> Kaka + Totti + Shevchenko + Inzaghi + Milan's D = Unfair


or maybe they would only lose 3-0 to depor


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

Crespo would never play for Milan. he is done at that high a level IMO. So is Veron


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## numlock (Feb 8, 2003)

I dont think they are really looking to leave either. They are around 30 years old and get close to 150.000 dolllars a week why leave?

heres a link to the story

http://www.skysports.com/skysports/article/0,,46-1135433,00.html


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>numlock</b>!
> I dont think they are really looking to leave either. They are around 30 years old and get close to 150.000 dolllars a week why leave?
> 
> heres a link to the story
> ...


I dont know. Veron seems like he wants to play. at Chelsea, he has no chance. I think he is done. Crespo, and Mutu for that matter, have been massive disappointments. I think Chelsea will try to cut and run from both of those strikers and Hasselbaink and try to rebuild their strike force. They have a champs league defense and midfield and a pop warner strike team. Somehow I see Ronaldo and possibly Owen (thats my speculation), possibly Totti, in Chelsea blue next year


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## curry_52 (Jul 22, 2002)

Crespo to Milan? No way. Galliani, Milan's vice-president, already turned that down. Theres no place for him.

Veron is going to play for Inter next season (loan).

And that Depor comment was way off. It was a one in life game, Depor showed they are mediocre at best. 

And Totti wants to win and get his money, so Milan could be a possibility (Although I too read that he said he wont play for another team in Italy not named Roma).

If Im not mistaken, Liverpool is playing the UCL next season, right? So I think theres a slim chance they will let him (Owen) walk. And what about Cisse? I read 100 times that he was joining Liverpool but....


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## curry_52 (Jul 22, 2002)

BTW, Milan was targetting Luis Fabiano from Sao Paulo, but I hope he doesnt get signed. 

:sour:


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## numlock (Feb 8, 2003)

> And that Depor comment was way off. It was a one in life game, Depor showed they are mediocre at best.


it was a little joke. Saying something is way off and then calling depor mediocre at best is a bit of a contradiction in my eyes. But still a team like milan should not lose 4-0 in the biggest game of their season



> Veron is going to play for Inter next season (loan).


Looking back at the last few years im seriously questioning his health. Hes had serious injury problems in all of his 3 years at england



> If Im not mistaken, Liverpool is playing the UCL next season, right? So I think theres a slim chance they will let him (Owen) walk. And what about Cisse? I read 100 times that he was joining Liverpool but....


they will go in the qualifying round. I dont get your owen point. Are you linking him with some team? Cisse whenever i see his name is said to be joining pool for 14m but nothing has been made official yet


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## curry_52 (Jul 22, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>numlock</b>!
> 
> they will go in the qualifying round. I dont get your owen point. Are you linking him with some team? Cisse whenever i see his name is said to be joining pool for 14m but nothing has been made official yet


My Owen point is that since Liverpool will get a shot at qualifying to the main draw (UCL), why would they give up on Owen or sell him to the highest bidder (Chelsea?)?


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## numlock (Feb 8, 2003)

I get it now. Id even doubt if chelsea would seriously be after him. Theres another guy whos out for a few months every season. I can see owen leaving and more because he wants out than they want him out. Gerrard is their main player now


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> Crespo to Milan? No way. Galliani, Milan's vice-president, already turned that down. Theres no place for him.
> 
> Veron is going to play for Inter next season (loan).
> ...


They are. But they are getting Cisse and they have a kid from Czeck republic who is good. Plus Owen is in the last year of his deal and they are worried about a Bosman type offer. Plus the kid said he wants to play abroad. Liverpool do have some cash issues, but they are apparently in the process of having the Thai PM be an investor in the team which will provide cash. if that happens, then my prediction wont happen. But I still think the prospect of losing Owen for nothing is unsettling.


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## curry_52 (Jul 22, 2002)

Well, it looks like Beckham playd his last game for Real. He saw the red card and wont play in the season finale. My guess is he goes back to England, Chelsea or ManU? As long as Ferguson is coaching Utd he wont return there. So: advantage Chelsea?

Samuel saga: Now Juve is said to be going after him. Milan and Inter also want him (Milan?). We know about Chelsea and Real. Great teams pursuing a great player.

And Real lost again :laugh: 
Against Murcia :laugh: 

I say the pull a Stalin over there.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> Well, it looks like Beckham playd his last game for Real. He saw the red card and wont play in the season finale. My guess is he goes back to England, Chelsea or ManU? As long as Ferguson is coaching Utd he wont return there. So: advantage Chelsea?
> 
> Samuel saga: Now Juve is said to be going after him. Milan and Inter also want him (Milan?). We know about Chelsea and Real. Great teams pursuing a great player.
> ...


a rumor in london says that arsenal might be offering a player + cash deal for Becks. I dont see how it works really but thats the rumor. Apparently Beckham, if you believe the press, wants to play for Arsenal and Real would rather sell him to Arsenal because they see Chelsea and their money as their biggest threat to competitive european football. It will be interesting nevertheless. I also happen to think Ronaldo will be gone and probably Figo this summer as well.


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## curry_52 (Jul 22, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> a rumor in london says that arsenal might be offering a player + cash deal for Becks. I dont see how it works really but thats the rumor. Apparently Beckham, if you believe the press, wants to play for Arsenal and Real would rather sell him to Arsenal because they see Chelsea and their money as their biggest threat to competitive european football. It will be interesting nevertheless. I also happen to think Ronaldo will be gone and probably Figo this summer as well.


If thats true, I could see Real being interested in only 3 players from Arsenal: Henry, Vieira (Especially him) and maybe Campbell. 
Do you like Beckham for your team?

Going back to the Owen case, dont forget that Emile Heskey is also gone (going to play for Birmingham).


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## minero (Jun 21, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> BTW, Milan was targetting Luis Fabiano from Sao Paulo, but I hope he doesnt get signed.
> 
> :sour:


why? r u a sao paulo fan too?luis fabiano rox,kaka was the one booed here


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> 
> 
> If thats true, I could see Real being interested in only 3 players from Arsenal: Henry, Vieira (Especially him) and maybe Campbell.
> ...


Heskey is gone as of this morning I read. I still think the Reds could have problems if they cant agree to a contract with Owen. They dont want to lose him on a Bosman for nothing. And with Houlliers status up in the air, they could be forced to consider it. I havent read it anywhere, just my speculation

Id like it if Beckham would play for Arsenal but its not pressing. He has a very good relationship with Wenger and he is one of the best dead ball players in the world, if not the best. However, Arsenal isnt giving up Henry or Viera or Campbell for him. The story had Llungberg and or Silva plus cash going for him. Silva makes some sense for them since he is a defensive midfielder. llungberg, i cant see how he would fit.


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## Benny the Bull (Jul 25, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> Heskey is gone as of this morning I read. I still think the Reds could have problems if they cant agree to a contract with Owen. They dont want to lose him on a Bosman for nothing. And with Houlliers status up in the air, they could be forced to consider it. I havent read it anywhere, just my speculation
> ...


If Beckham is back in England next season, I can't see him being anywhere but Chelsea, and that's where they need help, as well as up front.

If Owen goes anywhere, Liverpool would have to sell him to a non-English team. They would be no way they'd sell him to Chelsea, even if they offered a huge transfer fee. I think he'll stay at Liverpool seeing as they're in the CL, well the qualifiers for next season.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Benny the Bull</b>!
> 
> 
> If Beckham is back in England next season, I can't see him being anywhere but Chelsea, and that's where they need help, as well as up front.
> ...


They cant afford to lose him for nothing. They just cant. If the guy doesnt sign soon, Liverpool have to atleast consider selling him. Chelsea, Barcelona would have to be the 2 most likely teams to look at him IMO


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## Benny the Bull (Jul 25, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> They cant afford to lose him for nothing. They just cant. If the guy doesnt sign soon, Liverpool have to atleast consider selling him. Chelsea, Barcelona would have to be the 2 most likely teams to look at him IMO


I agree, but Liverpool are too proud a club to sell him to an English team. Rumors are Ferguson is considering a bid for Gerrard. The chances of that happening are zero. I think it's the same if Chelsea made a bid for Owen.

If Owen is with another team, it'll be in Italy or Spain.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Benny the Bull</b>!
> 
> 
> I agree, but Liverpool are too proud a club to sell him to an English team. Rumors are Ferguson is considering a bid for Gerrard. The chances of that happening are zero. I think it's the same if Chelsea made a bid for Owen.
> ...


he is rumored to want to give the continent a shot so maybe. But can anyone really say no to Romans money? Particularly if things fall apart with the Thai PM who is looking to buy 30% of the club


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## Benny the Bull (Jul 25, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> he is rumored to want to give the continent a shot so maybe. But can anyone really say no to Romans money? Particularly if things fall apart with the Thai PM who is looking to buy 30% of the club


I actually think they would. Call me crazy, but I think they might. I'm not a Liverpool supporter, my best mate is so he knows more than me, but he not sure that Owen would even want to play with Chelsea. Born and raised in Liverpool, he wouldn't want to play for another English club.

It's similar to Man Utd and Beckham last year. There was no way Beckham would've been sold to Chelsea.


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## Bulls_Bulls_Bulls! (Jun 10, 2003)

With regard to Owen, I believe he is not as highly regarded by Spanish and Italian sides (e.g., Barca, Madrid)--certainly not nearly as much as Henry or Horseface. 

The impression Madrid or Barca had, from what I could gather in an article that I read awhile back is that Owen is at best a poacher, an opportunist, a sort of "Fox in the Box", if you will. Skillwise, he has been found lacking. Certainly, he is no "target" man.

Therefore, I don't see one of the major European sides to go after him.

Frank Lampard, on the other hand, is another question alltogether. His agent declared in the Daily Mail (don't know how reputable that is..) that he's getting screwed by Kenyon in his salary negotiations, and a side like Juve is definitely interested in him. 

The guy 'Pool most have to worry about losing is most likely Gerrard, whom Fergie wants as the replacement for Keane at Man. Ure. That guy is an absolute monster--he can do it all in the middle of the park, a high work rate, great skills, and a gritty determination.

By the way, Owen declared that he would never sign with another English side, basically pledging his future to the Kop about a week back.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Bulls_Bulls_Bulls!</b>!
> With regard to Owen, I believe he is not as highly regarded by Spanish and Italian sides (e.g., Barca, Madrid)--certainly not nearly as much as Henry or Horseface.
> 
> The impression Madrid or Barca had, from what I could gather in an article that I read awhile back is that Owen is at best a poacher, an opportunist, a sort of "Fox in the Box", if you will. Skillwise, he has been found lacking. Certainly, he is no "target" man.
> ...


i think Lampard could be an effective player playing in any league in the world. That guy is a very nice player.


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## Bulls_Bulls_Bulls! (Jun 10, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> i think Lampard could be an effective player playing in any league in the world. That guy is a very nice player.


Absolutely! If Ericksson is smart, he'd partner Lampard and Gerrard in central midfield for Euro 2004, with Beckham and Joe Cole on the flanks...that's a group that can battle with Zidane, Viera, and Pires and still offer some creativity and provide some service to the forwards.


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## numlock (Feb 8, 2003)

joe cole are you having a laugh?

If sven should do anything its stop building the team around owen and beckham and focus on their best players (offensively) which are gerrard, scholes and rooney




> Therefore, I don't see one of the major European sides to go after him.


not that i rate owen that higly but crespo and inzaghi have been pursued and owen on top form isnt much worse


Arsenal cant afford beckham and especially if chelsea want him. Thats looking past that beckham is the opposite of an arsenal type player and sees himself as a cm where he is no better than their current players. The ljungberg real stories came about after his deals with calvin klein which shows where real priorities are. 

Chelsea will try to get him as they think they will be big and global and try to cut corners. Same with arsenal he isnt better than their cm´s and his last season on the right wing wasnt that promising. Beckham is far from being the best in set pieces now.


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## curry_52 (Jul 22, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>minero</b>!
> 
> 
> why? r u a sao paulo fan too?luis fabiano rox,kaka was the one booed here


No, but Im not a big fan of his game. And I dont like his attitude at all. 
He isnt a bad player, Id rather see Milan going after someone else.


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## curry_52 (Jul 22, 2002)

I think Owen's game fits better within La Liga than Calcio. Barcelona has a very good striker named Saviola that has a similar game to that of Owen. I think Barca may be going after a #9, in the mold of Ruud or Vieri (Not that names, but with their style of game).
Owen to Real? No. 

I know Inter wanted him some years ago when Owen was arguably one of the Top-5 players in the world, or close to that level.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

Just out of info. Beckham traveled up to Highbury today to take part in the martin keown testimonial. Word is that he played for like 3 minutes and then they took him out. He spent the rest of the day sitting next to Wenger. Probably nothing but I thought I would pass it along


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## BCH (Jun 25, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> Just out of info. Beckham traveled up to Highbury today to take part in the martin keown testimonial. Word is that he played for like 3 minutes and then they took him out. He spent the rest of the day sitting next to Wenger. Probably nothing but I thought I would pass it along


ha. That would be awesome.


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## curry_52 (Jul 22, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> Just out of info. Beckham traveled up to Highbury today to take part in the martin keown testimonial. Word is that he played for like 3 minutes and then they took him out. He spent the rest of the day sitting next to Wenger. Probably nothing but I thought I would pass it along


I read Beckham name linked to Chelsea. :|


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> 
> 
> I read Beckham name linked to Chelsea. :|


I think ultimately it will be chelsea. But I think in his heart of hearts he would like to be with arsenal. but money talks.


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## curry_52 (Jul 22, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> I think ultimately it will be chelsea. But I think in his heart of hearts he would like to be with arsenal. but money talks.


At this point for Beckham, is there any difference? If he truly wants to play for Arsenal, he will end @ Highbury. 
The problem may be his transfer fee, if what you said is true, Real will ask for Henry or Vieira (Or Campbell, forget about Silva or Llungberg).


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> 
> 
> At this point for Beckham, is there any difference? If he truly wants to play for Arsenal, he will end @ Highbury.
> The problem may be his transfer fee, if what you said is true, Real will ask for Henry or Vieira (Or Campbell, forget about Silva or Llungberg).


realistically what could Arsenal get for Henry or Viera in terms of a cash settlement? Henry is prob in the 60s, and Viera in the 40s. They probably could get Ronaldo and Beckham for Henry if they so choosed. Llungberg i believe he is in the ourts. They might get 10-15 for him. And they are rumored to have another 8-10 in their transfer budget. Still, that is probably going to come up short


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## curry_52 (Jul 22, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> realistically what could Arsenal get for Henry or Viera in terms of a cash settlement? Henry is prob in the 60s, and Viera in the 40s. They probably could get Ronaldo and Beckham for Henry if they so choosed. Llungberg i believe he is in the ourts. They might get 10-15 for him. And they are rumored to have another 8-10 in their transfer budget. Still, that is probably going to come up short


IF this is true, then Beckham will definitely play for Chelsea next season. And if I were an Arsenal fan, that wouldnt be bad news. Not at all.


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## el_Diablo (May 15, 2003)

talking about club owners, it's funny that abramovich is almost automatically thought of as a crook, whose money is somehow illegally obtained, while guys like silvio berlusconi and jesus gil (RIP) have been doing their business for years.

about chelsea's forwards, crespo haven't actually been that bad statistically, he has bagged 10 goals in only 13 starts (19 games total) in the premiership. anyway, chelsea's best forward played in birmingham this season. it's amazing anyone can score 17 goals with a team like birmingham. they have like one football player in addition to forssell (david dunn). too bad forssell isn't famous enough for abramovich.

beckham to arsenal, no thanks, if it means vieira/henry/campbell leaving. sol could be sold, if a replacement could be found. it's hard, but replacing henry or vieira would be impossible. I could see ljungberg leaving, he probably doesn't want to spend his whole career at highbury/AG, and he hasn't been in top form since spring 2002.

gerrard to manU, this is as unlikely as osama becoming the president of the united states... the world surely ends if this happens. even in an extremely unlikely scenario where liverpool were forced to sell him to avoid bankrupcy, he would never choose manU. owen to chelsea is bit more plausible, since liverpool and chelsea don't have a traditional rivalry. funny how liverpool could have gotten £40M had they sold owen a couple years ago, no he is worth about £10M.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

this is funny. why would Juventus have any interest in Alan Smith? I dont get it

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/headlinenews?id=300910&cc=5739


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## BCH (Jun 25, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> this is funny. why would Juventus have any interest in Alan Smith? I dont get it
> 
> http://soccernet.espn.go.com/headlinenews?id=300910&cc=5739


I wish I could come up with an NBA player Alan Smith is like. Too bad there is no NBA relegation.


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## guilherme.rcf (Mar 4, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> I think Owen's game fits better within La Liga than Calcio. Barcelona has a very good striker named Saviola that has a similar game to that of Owen. I think Barca may be going after a #9, in the mold of Ruud or Vieri (Not that names, but with their style of game).
> Owen to Real? No.
> 
> I know Inter wanted him some years ago when Owen was arguably one of the Top-5 players in the world, or close to that level.


The future #9 of Barcelona is called Luis Fabiano. He is the reserve of Ronaldo in our national team. You can believe me. In some weeks Luis Fabiano will be wearing a barça jersey. He will cust 20 million to barcelona, maybe a bit less.

The president of barça has called the president of Sao Paulo to say that they will cover any offer of any team for Luis Fabiano.


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## numlock (Feb 8, 2003)

> They probably could get Ronaldo and Beckham for Henry if they so choosed


thats very generous of you but probably correct when looking at the prices you give vieira and henry



> But I think in his heart of hearts he would like to be with arsenal. but money talks


Take note you are talking about a guy who said utd was the only club he would play for and before that he was at tottenham.

And regarding fabiano. wont barca have to offload atleast 1 non eu player to get him?


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## curry_52 (Jul 22, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>numlock</b>!
> 
> And regarding fabiano. wont barca have to offload atleast 1 non eu player to get him?


Saviola is getting the EU passport.


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## curry_52 (Jul 22, 2002)

Real first 3 moves, apparently, will be:
Coach: Camacho
Defender: Samuel
Defender: Luisao


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## curry_52 (Jul 22, 2002)

rlucas and Arsenal fans, Do you like Morientes? Word is that Arsenal might be going after him, and I think it would be a nice addition.


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## Bulls_Bulls_Bulls! (Jun 10, 2003)

Morientes, if he came to Arsenal, would most likely get "Kanu-Wiltord" minutes, i.e., a part-time starter beyind Henry and the emerging Reyes, vying for time with Bergkamp. 

Not woth the 17 million pounds, the number being floated. That's a lot of money. He's 28, which is his prime in terms of football years, but for that price, people usually pay to get a teenager or someone in their early 20s (Reyes). Same scenario with Beckham, who's 29. 

I guess Chelski could afford him, but then he'd be stuck in their squad system behind Guidyonsen (sp?), Hasselbaink, Crespo, Mutu, et al.


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## numlock (Feb 8, 2003)

its just london based arsenal pro press going overboard (been linked with gerrard, terry and morientes in the sun). Arsenal arent going to spend close to 17m on morientes and it dosent even fit in their other buys in getting van persie and reyes.


since alan smith was mentioned. Leeds have rejected 2 bids from utd (dont know why they are after him)


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## curry_52 (Jul 22, 2002)

And what about David Trezeguet? Is this rumour more legit?


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## numlock (Feb 8, 2003)

One thing to consider about morientes is although hes done fantastic in the cl his goalscoring record in the french league havent been as great.

trez to arsenal?

I doubt it. I cant see arsenal having much more than 10m pounds after signing reyes and van persie this season. Thats almost 15m and outside of chelsea not many teams did spend more than they sold for last season and with the exception of a few it will probably be the same again

It was supposed to be certain trez would join barca but i havent seen that for some time. Then theres of course chelsea to consider.


But arsene and arsenal are very very good at keeping things quite until its done and dusted.


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## curry_52 (Jul 22, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>numlock</b>!
> 
> 
> It was supposed to be certain trez would join barca but i havent seen that for some time. Then theres of course chelsea to consider.


I read Chelsea or Arsenal.


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## numlock (Feb 8, 2003)

From watching chelsea do things and having watched kenyon over the years id say that for him to go there he would have to have a super tournament in the summer. 

Arsene has said that the a target striker isnt the kind he wants and imo trez falls into that category. I dont see it happening 1: money, 2: style of play and 3: playing time with reyes 2nd season, van persie and a new contract bergkamp


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

curry

2 quick answers. I am of the opinion that Morientes might just be enough to get this team over the hurdle in Europe. I still see Van Persie and Reyes more as wingers.  Morientes has been phenomenal. And might complement Henry very well

The Trezeguet thing has been there forever. I have zero idea if there is any legitimacy to the rumors. How much would he go for?

If someone held a gun to my head and said, Morientes or Trezeguet for equal money, pick one. id pick Morientes. I dont know why but just see him as more of a star and winner. Not that trezeguet hasnt one, cause he has. But what Morientes did for Monaco is just unreal. 

Arsenal are rumored to be looking at the finnish goalkeeper, and his name is skipping me. I think there might be some legitimacy in that. And dont be surprised if they get some cover for Sol and Toure. If either of those guys go down, it could be very ugly.


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## guilherme.rcf (Mar 4, 2003)

Why there are so much soccer talk in the bulls forum while the soccer forum is pretty slow? Post in there guys.


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## numlock (Feb 8, 2003)

anti niemi is the guy you are thinking of lucas. You are correct that they would be in bad shape if toure or sol got injured but they do have the swiss youngster senderos (they rate him higly) but hes had back injuries all season and thats not good to have that bad habit while you arent even 20.



> I still see Van Persie and Reyes more as wingers.


arsenal dont really play with orthodox wingers. van persie is left footed as is reyes and then they have bentley (who they also rate). If they had somebody like morientes or trez they would have to drop one of reyes, ljungberg, gilberto and put reyes or pires on the right


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>numlock</b>!
> anti niemi is the guy you are thinking of lucas. You are correct that they would be in bad shape if toure or sol got injured but they do have the swiss youngster senderos (they rate him higly) but hes had back injuries all season and thats not good to have that bad habit while you arent even 20.
> 
> 
> ...


one rumor has Gilberto headed to Atletico Madrid.


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## epic (Mar 16, 2004)

i'm disappointed that the richest club in the world (talking mamn u) doesn't seem to be involved in many big name speculations, beyond alan smith who's so so. i'm still pissed they screwed up the ronaldihnio transfer from last year. 

they should be spending more money on improving their squad.


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## Benny the Bull (Jul 25, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>epic</b>!
> i'm disappointed that the richest club in the world (talking mamn u) doesn't seem to be involved in many big name speculations, beyond alan smith who's so so. i'm still pissed they screwed up the ronaldihnio transfer from last year.
> 
> they should be spending more money on improving their squad.


They haven't finished their season yet.

Don't worry, the rumors will start. They know they need to spend. Arsenal murdered everyone this season so they have to get better.


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## numlock (Feb 8, 2003)

if thats all their is epic then its pretty bad. But leeds just went down and utd do need a striker (why smith though?). There have been constant rumors of rooney or der vaart i dont know if you consider them big enough

Ronaldinho though preferred barca but utds dealmakers are far from great


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## Benny the Bull (Jul 25, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>numlock</b>!
> if thats all their is epic then its pretty bad. But leeds just went down and utd do need a striker (why smith though?). There have been constant rumors of rooney or der vaart i dont know if you consider them big enough
> 
> Ronaldinho though preferred barca but utds dealmakers are far from great


Ferguson said that Peter Kenyon stuffed up the Ronaldinho transfer, now he is at Chelsea (Kenyon), so maybe that helps.

United will spend, but they aren't going to spend for the sake of it.


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## curry_52 (Jul 22, 2002)

Its official: Samuel will play for Real Madrid next season.


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## epic (Mar 16, 2004)

united could do with some better supply for the forwards. i wish fergie retired and they somehow got beckham back, but that ain't gonna happen. hopefully ronaldo continues to improve, but ruud (hopefully he stays) really needs better service, especially from the wings. another striker would be nice. i'm not completely sold on rooney, but gerrard would be very nice (not gonna happen, though).


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## numlock (Feb 8, 2003)

> Arsenal murdered everyone this season so they have to get better.


i would say thats a bit of an overstatement. They certainly didnt murder utd themselves. utds problem was pretty bad teams like wolves, city, leeds that kind. If solskjaer, brown and rio wouldnt have had their serious and lengthy problems it would have been a fight til the end for the title.

beckhams supply these last seaon has gone straight downhill


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## Benny the Bull (Jul 25, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>epic</b>!
> united could do with some better supply for the forwards. i wish fergie retired and they somehow got beckham back, but that ain't gonna happen. hopefully ronaldo continues to improve, but ruud (hopefully he stays) really needs better service, especially from the wings. another striker would be nice. i'm not completely sold on rooney, but gerrard would be very nice (not gonna happen, though).


And Fergie isn't going to retire.

Once they lost Rio Ferdinard, they crashed. If they had Rio, would they have won? Remember they were ahead of Arsenal in January just before Rio's ban started. Utd would've have been better with Rio, but I don't think they would've won.

A solid left back could be nice. O'Shea wasn't as good as last season and is best suited to central defence. Allowing Scholes to play central midfield is better as well, since he plays better there than in the hole behind Ruud. Also adds more creativity to central midfield, which is lacking when playing two defensive midfielders such as Keane and Phil Neville/Butt/Djemba-Djemba etc. I'm surprised Kleberson didn't play more.

So they do need some help up front, either a striker or a guy who can play in the hole (with Ruud as the lone striker which Fergie seems to prefer).


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## Benny the Bull (Jul 25, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>numlock</b>!
> 
> 
> i would say thats a bit of an overstatement. They certainly didnt murder utd themselves. utds problem was pretty bad teams like wolves, city, leeds that kind. If solskjaer, brown and rio wouldnt have had their serious and lengthy problems it would have been a fight til the end for the title.
> ...


My comment was more in relation to how far ahead they were in the end. Arsenal officially won with 4 or 5 games left, but the season was really over with 8 or 9 games left. No one was catching Arsenal.

Man Utd didn't beat the bad teams, but you need consistency, and they didn't have it this season. That's why they lost.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>numlock</b>!
> 
> 
> i would say thats a bit of an overstatement. They certainly didnt murder utd themselves. utds problem was pretty bad teams like wolves, city, leeds that kind. If solskjaer, brown and rio wouldnt have had their serious and lengthy problems it would have been a fight til the end for the title.
> ...


Arsenal won the Premiership by 9 pts over chelsea and 15 pts over ManU. And that is without even trying the last 4 matches. I think its safe to say that they murdered everyone. And Rio et al wouldnt have made the much of a difference. ManU is a good team, but one that is aging and in desperate need of a new approach. Read that anyway you want


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## Benny the Bull (Jul 25, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> Arsenal won the Premiership by 9 pts over chelsea and 15 pts over ManU. And that is without even trying the last 4 matches. I think its safe to say that they murdered everyone. And Rio et al wouldnt have made the much of a difference. ManU is a good team, but one that is aging and in desperate need of a new approach. Read that anyway you want


Rio would've helped, but Arsenal still would've won. Man Utd had the best defensive record in the premiership until Ferdinard started his suspension. That meant they brought back Brown too quickly from an ACL injury, and really unsettled the team. Brown, eventually found form, but it was way too late.

United is basically trying to rebuild on the fly, which is extremely difficult. I'm sure the majority of players they buy will be guys under 25, because their core group is getting older, and won't be around much longer. They will be trying to replace a crop of players (Giggs, Nevilles, Beckham, Butt, Scholes, Keane etc.) that were absolutely outstanding, and will be extremely difficult to better.

I hope Man Utd sell Forlan. He is useless. Makes way to many mistakes.


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## epic (Mar 16, 2004)

i still can't believe the extent of that rio suspension. ridiculous.


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## numlock (Feb 8, 2003)

> And that is without even trying the last 4 matches.


not judging by who they played in these games. If you are going by effort utd have "tried" like twice in a few months (aston villa and arsenal fa cup).


It was nobodys fault but his own (rio) but take somebody like sol out from january, kolo out and out of form until feb-march (brown) and a pires or ljungberg out the entire season (solskjaer). Thats not even taking into account the unbelievable drop in oshea´s form. On the flipside there are longterm positives in ronaldo and fletcher who have played much more than was expected in august and improved alot over the season

Arsenal were the better team but the points difference is inflated

utd arent aging more than arsenal. Its very comparable. Most of the main players with the exception of keane are born in the 74-77 years


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## Bulls_Bulls_Bulls! (Jun 10, 2003)

It's been reported today by various sources (yahoo, etc.) that Chelski have pretty much wrapped up the Morientes signing and are also going after Andrei Schvenko (sp?), the Ukranian striker who plays at Milan. 

Also: Frank Lampard to Real Madrid, anyone?? Apparently, his girlfriend is Spanish, and he prefers Madrid over anything remotely resembling Calcio Intaliano...I think he's much better than Beckham.


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## el_Diablo (May 15, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>numlock</b>!
> a pires or ljungberg out the entire season (solskjaer)


are you seriously comparing robert pires to ole-gunnar solksjär?



> Giggs, Nevilles, Beckham, Butt, Scholes, Keane etc.


nevilles and butt are hard to replace?


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## numlock (Feb 8, 2003)

> are you seriously comparing robert pires to ole-gunnar solksjär?


no im comparing his impact and importance to utd when he played there last season to that of ljungberg-pires to arsenal. He would probably fall in between pires and ljungberg so thats why i wrote both names. Is it a totally perfect comparison? no



> nevilles and butt are hard to replace?


not the butt that has been collecting pay this season but the brothers have done very well. Not many right backs in england better than gary and phil fills in fine at alot of positions no world beater certainly


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## curry_52 (Jul 22, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Bulls_Bulls_Bulls!</b>!
> It's been reported today by various sources (yahoo, etc.) that Chelski have pretty much wrapped up the Morientes signing and are also going after Andrei Schvenko (sp?), the Ukranian striker who plays at Milan.


I cant see Milan doing this. They have said time after time that Sheva is untouchable.


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## el_Diablo (May 15, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
> 
> 
> I cant see Milan doing this. They have said time after time that Sheva is untouchable.


me neither. only way milan would sell is if they had financial problems, and that isn't going to happen with il duce berlusconi as club owner...


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## numlock (Feb 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>el_Diablo</b>!
> 
> 
> me neither. only way milan would sell is if they had financial problems, and that isn't going to happen with il duce berlusconi as club owner...



what happened to all those stories a few years ago that berlusconi might even be put in jail?


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## el_Diablo (May 15, 2003)

he is their prime minister at the moment, and about the first thing he did after winning the election was pushing through immunity for "sitting" prime minister. so he can't be tried at the moment. 

I'm not too certain about the facts but I think he was suspected of some kinds of frauds and embezzlements.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

I had a friend one time claim that he slept with Berlusconis daughter. Probably not true but funniest enough to mention


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## Bulls_Bulls_Bulls! (Jun 10, 2003)

Here's the link to the Cheski - Milan story:

http://uk.sports.yahoo.com/040520/3/3xpm.html


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

Lampard is a good player and can play anywhere in the world as far as I am concerned. He is Chelseas backbone. He isnt irreplacable but close. If he moves on, i have got to believe Davids would end up at Chelsea. There was some talk about Davids to Arsenal as well since he is a Bosman


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## curry_52 (Jul 22, 2002)

After all, Beckham is staying put.


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## curry_52 (Jul 22, 2002)

Samuel signed a 5-year contract with Real (Transfer fee = 25M Euros)


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## el_Diablo (May 15, 2003)

hopefully the sale of samuel means that roma doesn't have to sell totti, it would be sad. he is as roma at the moment...


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

i would strongly agree with Curry that this is a good signing by Real. Is Chivu next?

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/headlinenews?id=301258&cc=5739


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## Benny the Bull (Jul 25, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>el_Diablo</b>!
> 
> nevilles and butt are hard to replace?


I was making the comment of replacing these players collectively, not as individuals.

Signing Samuel was a great move for Madrid.


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## numlock (Feb 8, 2003)

south american or those who watch alot of french football can you give some info on heinze. Hes been linked with utd atleast in the british press


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## curry_52 (Jul 22, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>numlock</b>!
> south american or those who watch alot of french football can you give some info on heinze. Hes been linked with utd atleast in the british press


Gabriel Heinze is a very good defender, but second tier (Behind the Nestas, Samuels, etc). 
He is a tough player, with personality and unlike many DB, he knows how to control the ball. He is a lefty, and can play either in the middle or as #3. 
He is 26 years old right now. Good signing for any team out there.


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## curry_52 (Jul 22, 2002)

Barcelona contacted Michael Ballack, so keep an eye on him.


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

Bayern says Barcelona didn't make an offer and they plan to keep Ballack unless a big offer comes in and I would really really doubt that Barcelona has the cash to offer.

Last I heard Lucio and Deco transfers to Bayern are almost perfect.


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## curry_52 (Jul 22, 2002)

Big Amare, are you from Germany?


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## guilherme.rcf (Mar 4, 2003)

Did you know that Guarani(ex deco team) sent he away without get any money because he was "short" to be a good player? And now he worths 20 million euros.

I think that Lucio is the most over rated defender in the world. His teammate Juan is 10x better than him.


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## curry_52 (Jul 22, 2002)

Real inching closer to Van Nistelrooy. This guys will never learn


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## curry_52 (Jul 22, 2002)

And Roberto Carlos might play his last game with Real today, then make London his new home (Chelsea).


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## numlock (Feb 8, 2003)

watching ruud celebrate yesterday and plus the facts hes denied these stories quite often,signed a new contract few months ago and said no to real before he sure as hell didnt look like he was leaving. 
Its funny when the press talk about ruud going to real they mention it many times how bad utds season has been and some players are near the end of their career but nothing is said about reals "massive" achievements this season and that carlos, figo and zidane are all what 32?

good news for chelsea. I thought they were short on mercenaries


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## curry_52 (Jul 22, 2002)

Finally: Djibril Cisse to Liverpool!


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