# Official McDonalds All American Game Thread. Wednesday, March 31, 2004 8pm cst. ESPN.



## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

Every Bulls fan with picture in picture out there needs to be watching the end of the lottery bowl (Bulls vs. Orlando) and the beginning of the McDonalds game at 8 central time. 

We've got Dwight Howard, Telfair, Livingston, Marvin Williams, and Josh Smith to watch. Damn!

Here's a link to all players participating:

http://mcdonaldsallamerican.theinsiders.com/3/04BoysTeam.html

It looks like between 6-8pm central time on ESPN is the skills competition, but I don't know if it's taped.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

I will be watching Marvin Williams the whole game...


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

should be entertaining. I watch these games every year. I still remember the record breaking performance Bender put on! 

Curry looked really good in the one he played in.


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## PC Load Letter (Jun 29, 2002)

I'm looking forward to this game even more than last year's with Lebron because I had already seen him play and I didn't care about anyone else. This year, I've only seen snippets of just a few of these guys and the rest I've seen none, so it should be interesting. Guys I'm looking foward to seeing the most: Josh Smith, Marvin Williams, Jr., and Telfair. 

I also want to see if Glen Davis is as fat as I think he is. 6'8", 325? Yahtzee!

I really wish Dorell Wright was playing. He's the only notable who played in the EA game and isn't playing in this one. Of course, maybe it will help him go to college if he doesn't have a chance to shine on national tv.:yes:


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## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

They are fun to watch but I hope we do not end up with a single guy that will be on that floor tonight.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>PC Load Letter</b>!
> I also want to see if Glen Davis is as fat as I think he is. 6'8", 325? Yahtzee!



Glen Davis


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## twinz2gether (May 24, 2003)

LOL that guy looks like Shaq's Twin, their face resemblance is uncanny.


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## TyGuy (Apr 19, 2003)

I'm looking forward to seeing local product Demarcus Nelson play. He is heading to Duke next year and could be a dandy for them.


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## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

Yeah Nelson is a nice young player who could have an impact for Duke next year. Especially if Livingston goes pro. Because if he does Duke will only have Sean Dockery at PG. Nelson might get some run there along with time at SG.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

My guy, Marvin Williams...










Some say Williams might be the best high-school basketball player this state has ever produced. That's a bold assessment, but there's no denying the strength of his resume. Williams, a 6-foot-9 senior, has twice been selected to the All-State first team. He has signed to play at the University of North Carolina, and has been invited to two of the most prestigious all-star games in the country — the EA Sports Roundball Classic next Wednesday in Chicago, and the McDonald's All-American Game on March 31 in Oklahoma City.

For those achievements and more, he has been chosen The Seattle Times' Boys Basketball State Player of the Year.

"He's an amazing talent," said South Kitsap coach John Callaghan. "He can do it all."

None of this success seems to have changed Williams. He still has that unassuming air and that easy-going shuffle, the same one he first strolled in with as a 15-year-old sophomore.

These days, people recognize him all over Kitsap County, where he has become something of an icon. But he still drives his mom's car and still bags groceries at Garguile's Red Apple Market.

"It didn't go to his head, and I like that about him," said Andrea Gittens, Williams' mother. "He still stayed humble. He still stayed grounded. He still knew the Lord gave him the talent. Marvin has not changed."


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

Nelson is gonna be a good one. Watch Malik Hairston tonight as well. Smooth, smooth, smooth.


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

Malik Hairston:


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

Is anyone else watching this in here? Come on Bulls fans!

So far, Howard has shown some dominance. He does have some handle, toughness, and versatility.

J.R. Smith has showns some range from outside and some mad athleticism.

Livingston has thrown some hot sauce passes and does look like he has a strong handle, but he also has a certain resemblance to Mr. Salty.

Not much from Marvin Williams or Josh Smith yet.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

Williams drilled a 3, d'd up Howard 2 times, and dove into the first row to save a ball that led to a fast break...

This game means absolutely nothing...


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## Silent But Deadly (Aug 15, 2003)

For the record: Swift owns Howard. Officially.
Nice 3 pointers by J. R. Smith, sweet string music. Go East!


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## Brian34Cook (Mar 26, 2003)

This game is boring


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Brian34Cook</b>!
> This game is boring


Ditto. These kids should all go to school for a few years. No one is really standing out. Swift and Howard. Livingston looks alright.(flashy).

I'd rather just have Okafor.


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## remlover (Jan 22, 2004)

Everyone year i watch the McDonalds game but i had to turn the game off after 10mins gone in the 1st half. It was just painful to watch. 

How can anyone judge anything, good or bad from this game? The only thing that stood out to me is that JR smith has range and Swift (or whoever the redheaded kid going to USC) handled Howard on a few low post possessions.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

As far as I'm concerned they should just stop televising the game...

I went to the best McDonald's Game ever in St. Louis years ago...

Every one since hasn't even come close...


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## dsouljah9 (Jul 9, 2002)

I agree, the game <i>is</i> boring


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

Josh Smith is a stud. I have yet to even notice Marvin Williams.


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## texan (Jul 10, 2003)

umm jr smith has stood out to me. maybe not in the second half but at the beginnin of the game he looked like dynamite. and did anyone see that sick block by josh smith? that was crazyyy but other than that ther hasnt been much to boast bout for this game


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

so wait. Why isn't JR Smith considering coming out? That type of shooting range tends to play well in the NBA. And he's got the vertical...

He's looked better than a lot of the "names" in this game.

Telfair has been pretty underwhelming.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>futuristxen</b>!
> so wait. Why isn't JR Smith considering coming out? That type of shooting range tends to play well in the NBA. And he's got the vertical...
> 
> He's looked better than a lot of the "names" in this game.


I'm impressed. He's clearly hot dogging it with him hops and his 30 foot threes, but that doesn't mean I'm not impressed. He's got perfect size to be a shooting guard at 6'6". Why not?

I haven't been watching that carefully for various reasons, although I am taping this. How is his handle? Can he create his own shot? How has his D been in general?

How could a scout not be extremely impressed?


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## RetroDreams (Jun 9, 2002)

*NONE* of these kids are ready to come out and I really hope, for the wellbeing of these kids in the longterm, that their handlers have their heads on straight and steer them to college for at least a couple years.

I wouldn't take anyone on the floor in the lottery. Sure, some of these kids will be bigtime, but they are all 3-4 years away. I hope that Paxson doesn't draft anyone who is playing tonight... it will be the very last straw for me.

Nice JWill segment though.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

I think Howard will be productive right away, Retro. He looks like he's playing pretty hard on this game, with a lot of determination, at least on the offensive end.

I'm disappointed with how little impressive material from Marvin Williams I have seen.


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

Josh Smith = ready, IMO
JR Smith = WOW. Can he handle the ball though?
Howard = ready as a guaranteed 1st or 2nd pick'll ever be
Swift = impressive, great hands, good future pro
Telfair = overrated
Marvin Williams = needs a year or two in college
Farmar = should wear a leather jacket when he plays
Livingston = needs a year in college


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## RetroDreams (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Darius Miles Davis</b>!
> I think Howard will be productive right away, Retro. He looks like he's playing pretty hard on this game, with a lot of determination, at least on the offensive end.
> 
> I'm disappointed with how little impressive material from Marvin Williams I have seen.


He's too small. He needa two years of conditioning because his hard work will be worthless when he is getting beat down in the post. He cannot play the SF slot like some have said... hell, almost everyone in this game cannot shoot outside of 15 feet.

Please kids... go to college, learn and develop.


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## RetroDreams (Jun 9, 2002)

Guys, also keep in context the other players who played in this game who have jumped. Remember, Bender holds the record for this game and look how good he has been.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>arenas809</b>!
> As far as I'm concerned they should just stop televising the game...
> 
> I went to the best McDonald's Game ever in St. Louis years ago...
> ...


I have that game on tape. KG, VC, Starbury, Pierce and company made that game an event. There is just too much hype around the McDonald's All-American Game for it to actually mean anything.


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## sTiLLaFaN42 (Sep 1, 2002)

Josh Smith - More athletic and thicker than I though. Did anybody notice how easy he made it look when he caught a pass on a fast break then jammed it emphatically and with ease? This was the play right after his monster block. Anybody else wonder why he didn't get nearly as much playing time as the other players?

Sebastian Telfair - Definitely has some nice handles. Looked really passive, barely drove the ball. Loves to go for the flashy pass. Isn't as strong or fast as I would have hoped. Telfair should definitely go to college.

Shaun Livingston - Can you say Jalen Rose? He was also underwhelming. Sure, he has some handle, he knows how to make flashy passes, but didn't show much of anything else. He needs at least 2 years of college.

Marvin Williams - who's that?

Howard - I'm impressed with his size. The way he moves reminds of Tim Duncan in that he has a commanding prescense as opposed to someone like Tyson or Jermain O'Neal. His post moves were unimpressive, however. He seems like a legitimate future star, but definitely needs some seasoning.

JR Smith - I wouldn't mind drafting him with a late lottery pick. Too bad he's going to school.


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## DaFuture (Nov 5, 2002)

Rudy Gay has been mighty impressive only one trying to play defense actually. You can tell he is well coached.


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## ogbullzfan (Mar 9, 2004)

I was impressed by Howard who also seems to have a great head on shoulders and a Tim Duncan like humbleness. Robert Swift also has a nice foundation to work with. Overall....I wish they would all go to college.


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## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>RetroDreams</b>!
> Guys, also keep in context the other players who played in this game who have jumped. Remember, Bender holds the record for this game and look how good he has been.


Thank you. 

Unless the Euros are amazing, this will be a dismal draft class.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>VincentVega</b>!
> Josh Smith is a stud. I have yet to even notice Marvin Williams.


That's the same Marvin Williams that dunked on Josh at the Roundball Classic...

This game means absolutely nothing, you could tell who was playing for the scouts and who didn't give a damn...

I honestly believe most of the West team didn't really give a damn...

Smith was hotdogging it, but so what, go to college...


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## chifaninca (May 28, 2002)

Waste of a game. I didn't expect it to be a real game, but atleast a display of skills. .....

Only Howard looks to have a chance at contributing, and I don't think it will be a big contribution for a year or two.

next please.......

We need Okafor or trade.


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## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>chifaninca</b>!
> next please.......
> 
> We need Okafor or trade.


Unless you are trading Okafor, a high lottery pick is not going to get you much. 

Most of the guys in this draft are not going to give a team much help while they are on their rookie contract.


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## chifaninca (May 28, 2002)

I agree about Okafor having the most value, especially after the underwhelming farse of a game. Completely unwatchable....Dare I say as boring as a Bulls game????


Still, there is hope that the pick will gain value as workouts occur and guys shoot up and down the charts. I think as long as you are in the top 4 or 5 you have a tradeable asset.

If we have the Number 2 or 3, we need to move that pick, unless Deng is available. Even if he is, I agree this draft class is lighting the world on fire yet. So do we really want to trade with Atlanta or Boston for more picks in a average draft? Can we get a star quality player in return for the pick and a contract?

Rlucas - Did Marvin Williams read your posts and feel he didn't have to show up?


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

I'm kind of surprised that some of you thought the game was boring. Sure it was lopsided, the east had far more talent than the west, but there was some defense played and some pick and rolls ran and a lot of things you don't always see in the all star games. Anyway, I came away impressed with a few prospects although most of the players really could use a year or two in college:

Dwight Howard: Ok, I admit, I was shocked. I have heard so many comparisons to Tim Duncan for this kid I was expecting a more prototypical center. Howard looked to me like he might be able to play the 3 ala KG in the League if he can work on his handles a little, he has range out to three point land and is obviously a solid player and a hard worker. I can envision a front court of Curry, Chandler, and Howard being pretty sweet. In fact, I think the Bulls may even have to consider drafting Howard OVER Okafor.

Shaun Livingston: This kid has SICK handles and a great court awareness and instincts. Whoever compared him to Jalen Rose was way off IMO. This kid will be much more of a pg at the NBA level than Jalen ever has been able to be. Livingston didn't get to play very much but the talent is clearly there. Unfortunately he doesn't have anywhere near the NBA body and really needs to work on it in college for a year or two.

Al Jefferson: WOW! What amazing atheleticism. He can really finish a break in thunderous fashion. Plus they said he AVERAGES 42ppg in HS and had 27blocks in one game! Bound to be a pretty good pro one day IMO and is probably strong enough to go to the NBA now but he won't.

J.R. Smith: Man this guy can score. He also seemed to have a pretty good all around floor game. I can see him being an NBA player one day.

Josh Smith: Again, amazing atheleticism, great length, he can really finish and is a very good dunker and a solid all around player, that block he had was off the hook for shizzle. I believe Josh even hit a three pointer showing a little range. He doesn't have an NBA ready body though he needs a year or more of adding strength IMO.


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## PC Load Letter (Jun 29, 2002)

Nobody on the floor last night showed me anything that would make me want to pick them with any lottery pick, let alone a top fiver.

JR Smith was the most impressive with his shot and his hops earlier in the dunk contest. He looked like the most talented guy out there. I'd definitely take him with a second-rounder if he was there.

Dwight Howard is smooth and fluid for a guy his size, but he doesn't have anywhere near the skills of Duncan or KG. Maybe eventually he'll be an all-star but I don't see it yet. When KG was a senior, you knew he'd be awesome. With Howard, I'm not so sure.

Josh Smith is very athletic and probably has the most potential out of any of the players, but he could definitely use at least a year in college. I also didn't see him handle the ball much so I have no idea how good his handles are.

Shaun Livingston is a very nice ball-handler but the guy is way too under-developed physically to skip college. If he goes into the draft, that has "huge mistake" written all over it.

Telfair is quick and I know he can do a lot of things with the basketball that make you get up off your seat but he's definitely not ready to contribute in the NBA right now.

Marvin Williams? I was excited to see this guy after hearing all the hype from some posters here and he showed absolutely ZERO. I was very disappointed.

I think my favorite player is Glen Davis, just because he made me laugh a couple times. He's not as fat as I thought he might be. I also enjoyed his comment that he "only has to lose another 40 pounds."

Bottom line, this game was HORRIBLE. Not only was it a badly played game, but it wasn't fun to watch at all because, outside of JR Smith, nobody played well enough to impress me. I hope all the guys who can go to college DO go to college because going to the pros right now would be career suicide for most of them.


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## sTiLLaFaN42 (Sep 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ace20004u</b>!
> Shaun Livingston: This kid has SICK handles and a great court awareness and instincts. Whoever compared him to Jalen Rose was way off IMO. This kid will be much more of a pg at the NBA level than Jalen ever has been able to be. Livingston didn't get to play very much but the talent is clearly there. Unfortunately he doesn't have anywhere near the NBA body and really needs to work on it in college for a year or two.


What's so off base about my Jalen Rose comparison? Maybe you forgot, but Jalen Rose was also a highly touted high school player, leading his high school team to state championships. He was also a playmaker, with probably better scoring abilities, but similar athleticism. I wouldn't be surprised if Shaun Livinston turned out to be a thinner and lesser scoring version of Jalen Rose.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>sTiLLaFaN42</b>!
> 
> 
> What's so off base about my Jalen Rose comparison? Maybe you forgot, but Jalen Rose was also a highly touted high school player, leading his high school team to state championships. He was also a playmaker, with probably better scoring abilities, but similar athleticism. I wouldn't be surprised if Shaun Livinston turned out to be a thinner and lesser scoring version of Jalen Rose.


I admit I don't know how well Jalen ran the point in HS, before my time. But I do know how he runs it now and IMO Livingston has much better instincts with the ball and general pg skill.


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## sTiLLaFaN42 (Sep 1, 2002)

I'll admit that I never saw Jalen play in high school either, only college footage. I also haven't seen Livingston besides highlights and last night's game. What have you seen from Livingston that makes you believe he has good instincts with the ball and general point guard skills? All I saw last night was a skinny kid that loved doing unecessarily flashy passes and didn't like driving. He also seemed to have a lot of trouble just to get off a decent shot while near the paint.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

This game is a joke...

I will never watch it again...

You guys are reading way too much into it.

Marvin Williams didn't have a JR Smith type game so he sucks?

Please.

I'll watch all these guys play if they decide to go to a park and play for some money, then you'd actually see some basketball.


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## Wild Wild West (Jun 30, 2003)

I wanted to talk a little about the three players in this game that the bulls could consider with the early lottery pick, namely Howard, Smith, and maybe Livingston.

Howard- A very interesting point in his interviews was that he considers himself to possibly be a 3, instead of a 4, and he compares himself somewhat to KG. I doubt it, but compared to 4's he has very good passing, pretty good ball handling, and some perimeter shot. That at least makes playing the 3 a possibility. For the Bull's I had preferred OKafor to Howard if we took the best 4 of the two acknowledged best players because I didn't wan't to wait as long for Howard, and Okafor appeared more ready to contribute right away.

If Howard could play the 3 for us that changes things. What do you guys think? I believe his game is very well rounded and developed, for a high school big guy. Even if he could be a swing 3/4 it might give him an edge at least for us over Okafor, but if pax views him strickly as a 4, then I would still prefer Okafor if we had the choice, or Deng over either if he comes out. I notice there seems to be a fair amount of variance in Howard's listed size, from 6-10 and 225 to 6-11 and 250. If the smaller size is accurate it is not that different from Smith's 6-9 and 215, and the SF possibilities seem more interesting.

Smith- Obviously he has highlight film plays, but I was a little disappointed in his failure to bang or box out on rebounds. He seemed to just drift to the hoop and rely on his leaping for rebounds and the same on defense. He appeared to have little interest in denying a players progress, just following him and then waiting to go up for the block. He won't be able to get away with that against NBA players. I saw tremendous talent but very raw undeveloped skills, and someone who does not yet know how to play the game in a number of areas. Deng for example might not have as much upside, but is a polished more refined all around player who does not just rely on physical gifts. If we had a choice between these two I would take Deng, if not Smith is a possibility and he might be a star, but I suspect Skiles would be all over him in his rookie year, having to teach him how to play and develope his skills.

Livingston- Normally I would not consider him with the early pick if he was projected just as a big PG to back up Hinrich. Because of his height (he needs to put on some weight badly) he becomes interesting if he could be a swing 1/2 backup in a three guard rotation with Hinrich and Crawford. As a 15 minute a game backup I have no interest in him. If he could back up both positions and get maybe 25 minutes a night and solidify a solid three guard rotation he might be worth considering. With those three any of them could play point, two of the three are 6-5 or more to guard a SG and Hinrich is tough enough to guard some SG's, and at least two of the three are three point threats, maybe Livingston could develope there too.

Overall of these three, Howard, Smith, Livingston would be my pecking order. I want a 3 very badly, I would take Deng over Howard or Okafor but not Smith, and I think Howard has moved ahead of Okafor in my book just because he might be able to play the 3. I find it interesting he is talking like a 3 but the NBA people never seem to consider him there. Maybe they should and we should. 

Of college players I think only Deng if he comes out and Iguodala should be on our radar in my opinion for the first pick. Iguodala vs. Smith would be a close call for me. Smith has the advantage of being a 3, while Iguodala might be more of a swing player. Smith also probably has more offensive scoring upside. Iguodala on the other hand is a terrific rebounder for his size, a great passer and very good defender, with somewhat limited scoring ability. I am pretty sure he will be a good player in this league and get minutes because he is versatile enough to play 3 positions, 1,2 and 3, and yet he doesn't project as a full time 3 because of his size. I would think in a decision between Iguodala and Livingston, Iguodala would have the edge since his toughness allows him to play the 3 at least against some people.

Okafor is a solid pick but the value of that pick is dependent on what we can package to get a 3 some other way.


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## ViciousFlogging (Sep 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>arenas809</b>!
> 
> Marvin Williams didn't have a JR Smith type game so he sucks?
> 
> Please.


so touchy. this is the first time most of us had a chance to see him play and he did nothing to distinguish himself. What do you expect people to say? "He played like crap but obviously he's this year's draft steal?" Based on what? No one is saying he sucks, just that he didn't do anything special in this game. Unfortunately that is all that most of us can base our opinions on until draft workouts start happening.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

My point is people are taking the game too far....

Livingston had 1 point, so he sucks?

I wasn't impressed with Howard or Telfair at all...


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## ViciousFlogging (Sep 3, 2003)

that's true. it's too bad that this is the only exposure most of us get to the high school prospects. That's why people try to write up full scouting reports based on one all-star game.


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>arenas809</b>!
> This game is a joke...
> 
> I will never watch it again...
> ...


Okay...but why did you talk up Marvin Williams, on this very thread, before the game started?


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>VincentVega</b>!
> 
> 
> Okay...but why did you talk up Marvin Williams, on this very thread, before the game started?


Why are you hell bent for Leather? :bsmile:


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>VincentVega</b>!
> 
> 
> Okay...but why did you talk up Marvin Williams, on this very thread, before the game started?


Because I've seen him play, because I know he's good...

Shaun Livingston didn't have a highlight game but does that mean he sucks too?


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## RetroDreams (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>arenas809</b>!
> 
> 
> Because I've seen him play, because I know he's good...
> ...


It depends really... or can it mean that he is just average when playing against a higher talent level?


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>RetroDreams</b>!
> 
> 
> It depends really... or can it mean that he is just average when playing against a higher talent level?


If it were a real game, then I would agree with that, it clearly wasn't a real game...

You could tell who was trying to show off for the scouts and who wasn't...

That game last night didn't hurt Livingston's draft stock at all...


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## RetroDreams (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>arenas809</b>!
> 
> 
> If it were a real game, then I would agree with that, it clearly wasn't a real game...
> ...


That is a load of crap. Every kid should have been out there trying to show what they were made of... if they weren't, I don't want someone like that on my squad anyway.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>RetroDreams</b>!
> 
> 
> That is a load of crap. Every kid should have been out there trying to show what they were made of... if they weren't, I don't want someone like that on my squad anyway.


Retro come on man...

It's a dunk and 3 contest, it's not a real basketball game...

There was no defense, the biggest guy on the floor was the only guy who took a charge, and he and Marvin Williams are the only ones who dove on the floor for a loose ball.

Most of the kids out there were trying to show off for the scouts.

Like I said, put those kids in a park and let's put some money on the game and then you'll see a real game between those guys.


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## fl_flash (Aug 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>arenas809</b>!
> This game is a joke...
> 
> I will never watch it again...
> ...


These guys weren't playing for money? What kind of a comment is that? Did the fact escape you that every single NBA franchise was represented? Many of these kids were playing for potential draft spots or to at least see where they fit in the pecking order. If playing to impress someone enough to give you a multi-million dollar contract isn't playing for money, I guess I don't know what is. I forget. The real money is at the park. Playing for $50 bucks carries soooo much more weight than a multi-million dollar NBA contract.

If Marvin Williams had lit this game up, you'd be all over him proclaiming him the next T-Mac or whatever. Since he was underwhelming, to say the least, you claim the game as meaningless. Good stuff!


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## RetroDreams (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>arenas809</b>!
> 
> 
> Retro come on man...
> ...


This was the ultimate center stage for these kids. 

Considering some of these kids won't ever go to college, this was the largest audience that you'll play in front off trying to improve your draft status. Every NBA team was in attendance... what else has to be done to hype you to show the world?

There were kids out there hustling and playing defense, and those were the kids who were impressive. If they didn't take it seriously, they could have cost themselves millions of dollars and there were kids out there who were damn serious... see Mr. Swift.

I just don't buy it... sorry.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

I agree with you to an extent, but no argument can convince me that the McDonald's game makes or breaks someone's career.

I will say it can help you, but hurt you?

These scouts have known who a lot of these guys are since maybe jr. high, so let's say Marvin Williams, Shaun Livingston, 2 headline players didn't have huge games didn't cost them a thing.

We obviously saw different games, I saw once when the East and a 4-0 breakaway, ya lots of defense there.

There were some defensive plays ya but these guys weren't out there playing like it was the state championship, final four, etc.

Does Livingston, Marvin, Telfair need to be MVP of this game to help their draft status? Hell no....

Swift?

Hell yes he does, he's a projected 2nd rd pick right now...

The 3 guys mentioned above our all lotto picks right now...

Josh Smith had a couple nice plays, but did he have a blockbuster game? No...

JR Smith showed his *** off, good for him, I'm sure he caught the attention of some scouts last night...

Dwight Howard had a nice game, but I wasn't impressed...

Anyway some of you are missing the point, this isn't the end all be all game like you're trying to make it...

A lot of those guys will be in front of scouts at the Nike Hoop Summit next week, plus these guys got to seem the practice this week at the Mcdonalds, and that's probably when they really got to see them compete.

Last night however? 

Yes meaningless.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>RetroDreams</b>!
> 
> 
> This was the ultimate center stage for these kids.
> ...


I agree with you Retro, but to play devil's advocate, Marvin played well at the EA Roundball Classic last week. Also, I remember watching the McDonalds game two years ago and being extremely unimpressed with Amare Stoudamire. I remember downtalking him around draft time because that was the only sample I had to look at. So I can see what Arenas is saying being true about another player. Still, if I'm the Bulls, I'd be more happy if the HS kid I'm considering drafting dominated in this game. But then again, Curry was the MVP his year.


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

I dunno about you guys but... Dwight Howard looked so much like Amare Stoudamire last night. Probably with more polish but slightly less explosiveness. Man, they even move the same way on the court. Watching Dwight catch it on the left block, pivot, and take that first step towards the basket was Amare-esque. Man.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Darius Miles Davis</b>!
> 
> 
> I agree with you Retro, but to play devil's advocate, Marvin played well at the EA Roundball Classic last week. Also, I remember watching the McDonalds game two years ago and being extremely unimpressed with Amare Stoudamire. I remember downtalking him around draft time because that was the only sample I had to look at. So I can see what Arenas is saying being true about another player. Still, if I'm the Bulls, I'd be more happy if the HS kid I'm considering drafting dominated in this game. But then again, Curry was the MVP his year.


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

Haven't watched the game yet, I'm sure I'll catch a replay soon.

Just wanted to agree with DMD, the truth lies somewhere in between Retro's and Arenas' stance.

The one thing we can tell from this game is that there is not going to be a Lebron James/Carmelo coming in to the league from this high school draft class. None of these players will be top 15 talent next season. This isn't to say that they can't develop into all-stars, but as far as players ready to contribute... a Lebron James, Carmelo Anthony, or Michael Jordan type talent could not help but shine on this stage. They would have dominated their teams, and willed there presence on the court. But, we already knew this. Tsk, tsk, the Bulls could have had this record last season.


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## RetroDreams (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>C.C.C.P</b>!
> Haven't watched the game yet, I'm sure I'll catch a replay soon.
> 
> Just wanted to agree with DMD, the truth lies somewhere in between Retro's and Arenas' stance.
> ...


I agree and this is what I was trying to get at... the simple fact that there isn't a LeBron or Carmelo in this group like everyone keeps hyping.

The bottom line is if someone drafts Livingston high in the lottery, the draft class will be looked at like the Crawford/Fizer class is. Because I don't think Livingston will ever be as good as Jamal Crawford is personally.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

I think there are overall MORE talented players than we have seen in years past. But, I don't think there is a superstar guy like Lebron or Amare this year unless perhaps it is Dwight Howard.


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## ViciousFlogging (Sep 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>RetroDreams</b>!
> 
> 
> I agree and this is what I was trying to get at... the simple fact that there isn't a LeBron or Carmelo in this group like everyone keeps hyping.
> ...


pretty much. of course, like DMD said, Amare didn't set the world on fire at this game, and then he went on to have arguably the best HS-to-pro season of anyone until Lebron. So it's conceivable that there is an Amare in this group, but aside from maybe Howard I don't think any of them are ready for the NBA's physicality in year 1, and even Howard I wouldn't bet on at this point.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>ace20004u</b>!
> I think there are overall MORE talented players than we have seen in years past. But, I don't think there is a superstar guy like Lebron or Amare this year unless perhaps it is Dwight Howard.


Dwight Howard doesn't impress me at all...

It's nice he's a church going kid and likes Finding Nemo, but he'd be lucky to do 1/4 of what Lebron or Melo has done this year...

Atlanta will draft him, it will help them sell tickets, but they better bring in some players around him if they want to do anything, because I don't see him leading them anywhere.


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## krob (Jul 6, 2002)

box score anyone?


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## sTiLLaFaN42 (Sep 1, 2002)

Come to think of it, not only was Amare unimpressive at the Micky D's game, but so was Carmelo. I remember watching Melo in the dunk contest and thinking that Hassan Adams was a better (am I thinking about the right year?) dunker and Melo was just an above average, Paul Pierce, type of dunker. I also remember not being too impressed with Carmelo in the McD's game itself. 

So what's the conclusion here? Unless his name is LeBron James, it's VERY difficult to decide who will develop into an NBA star.

By the way, nobody has mentioned Rondo from Oak Hill. He was the most impressive point guard last night. Then again, it means nothing.


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>sTiLLaFaN42</b>!
> Come to think of it, not only was Amare unimpressive at the Micky D's game, but so was Carmelo. I remember watching Melo in the dunk contest and thinking that Hassan Adams was a better (am I thinking about the right year?) dunker and Melo was just an above average, Paul Pierce, type of dunker. I also remember not being too impressed with Carmelo in the McD's game itself.


Not true, Carmelo wasn't so hot in the dunk contest, but I remember a number of posters going ape-**** over his pro potential after the game. Ahh, back in the day when we had so much hope...

Oh, I wouldn't mind an Amare type draft selection ... All I'm narrowly claiming is that if there was a high school player that was capable of carrying the Bulls to the playoffs next season, we would be speaking of them on a first name basis by now. [of course, as soon as I make a statement like that, I'm proven wrong. Here's hoping I'm wrong.]


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>C.C.C.P</b>!
> 
> 
> Not true, Carmelo wasn't so hot in the dunk contest, but I remember a number of posters going ape-**** over his pro potential after the game. Ahh, back in the day when we had so much hope...


I remember Melo made one of the most amazing bounce passes I have ever seen in that game. I remember him not scoring a bunch but easily proving he was the best guy out there. He's the one I was talking about after the game anyhow.


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