# How do you feel about Paul Pierce?



## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

Do you consider him a superstar? If not, was he ever a superstar? Do you have problems with his so-called "attitude"? Can he be an effective player in the '05-'06 lineup? Will he be happy? Can you see Ainge trading Pierce even if Paul states he is happy with this years' Celtics?


----------



## Richie Rich (May 23, 2003)

i heart paul pierce
i think this BS we hear is more fluff in the media than anything and Paul will stay here for a long time.


----------



## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

Pierce is now one of my favorite players (during the '03-'04 season, I was calling for his head). He, in my opinion, is an elite wing player and is the cornerstone for this franchise. I don't really mind the general opinion of Pierce having a bad attitude, but I'm confident that he will not be happy this season. While many would love to trade Pierce, if he does not demand one, I would wish that he stays here in Boston.


----------



## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

> (during the '03-'04 season, I was calling for his head).


Even though he dragged a group of scrubs into the 8 seed by some miracle?


----------



## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

What was the point of making the playoffs?

Here is a post I made back then:



Premier said:


> Here we go again...This thread might get closed..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

The funniest part of my post:



> Now, the viewing of Pierce on a daily basis is the real root of his criticism. If you don't live in the New England area or don't have League Pass, it is hard to judge Pierce because stats are a unrealiable source.


:rofl:

How things change.


----------



## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

It's simply amazing that PP got that team into the playoffs, that's all I have to say about that.

With Pierce, that team was brutal. Without, they would have been truly horrific.



> because stats are a unrealiable source.


 :laugh:


----------



## banner17 (Jun 28, 2003)

I consider him an All Star, not a Superstar. 


Superstar I reserve for players that are pretty much untradeable

Shaq - hey he wanted the trade
KG - someone who might seek a trade
Lebron
Kobe
T-Mac
Duncan
Amare
Dirk
Wade
Iverson - again, someone who might seek a trade

Do I have a problem with his attitude? yes - I think he's a stubborn player who doesn't always listen to the coaches and what might be best for the team.

Can he be effective? Sure, Paul will be an effective scorer no matter where he laces them up

Will he be happy? Probably not - having Ricky and Raef helps though

Can I see Ainge trading Pierce? Yes, I think Danny would trade anyone unless they're one of the above Superstars listed.


----------



## KingHandles (Mar 19, 2005)

I straight up LOVE PAUL PIERCE {nothing gay}.I have no problems with his attitude I'd be mad to if I changed teammates as much as I did my underwear. Is he going 2 be effective? hell yeah. I would not put it past Ainge to trade away our biggest _Superstar_ . I don't think he will be happy with the outcome of the season, but he will be happy playing on the Celtics.

I say Pierce averages around: 26ppg-10Rbs-6ast.


----------



## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

Let's hear some more opinions!

Pierce is a well-known player and everyone has an opinion on him.


----------



## LX (Oct 14, 2004)

Paul Pierce has been the only reason why we haven't been down on the level of the Atlanta Hawks since the time he came into the league. It would be a bad idea to trade him, IMO as he is a genuine superstar. He was a top 10 talent in the league, and even now is still top 20, easily, and top 5 at his position.


----------



## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

MindzEye said:


> I straight up LOVE PAUL PIERCE {nothing gay}.I have no problems with his attitude I'd be mad to if I changed teammates as much as I did my underwear. Is he going 2 be effective? hell yeah. I would not put it past Ainge to trade away our biggest _Superstar_ . I don't think he will be happy with the outcome of the season, but he will be happy playing on the Celtics.
> 
> I say Pierce averages around: 26ppg-10Rbs-6ast.


No way, there's absolutely no way that Pierce will ever get 26 points per game in this style of play.

There's also no way he'll get 10 rebounds, I think he's absolutly peaked and it may change by like .5 of a rebound.

And he won't be getting around 6 assists per game. 

If he ever did average that, he'd be considered one of the greatest basketball players ever.


I don't mind Pierce, but sometimes he just goes on my nerves. I want him to remain a Celtic for life...even when he drives me nuts.


----------



## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

I think my feelings on P-Squared are well known here.



> Paul Pierce has been the only reason why we haven't been down on the level of the Atlanta Hawks since the time he came into the league.


That's hitting on the head right there.


----------



## BackwoodsBum (Jul 2, 2003)

Premier said:


> Do you consider him a superstar? If not, was he ever a superstar? Do you have problems with his so-called "attitude"? Can he be an effective player in the '05-'06 lineup? Will he be happy? Can you see Ainge trading Pierce even if Paul states he is happy with this years' Celtics?


Well...I guess it's time for my usuall anti-Pierce rant 

Here are my answers to your questions:

1. No! Yes he's a star, but nowhere near being a superstar. I put an elite few in that group (Shaq, Duncan, LeBron, KG, and maybe one or two others) and he's nowhere close. 

2. Maybe. When he played with a fire in him he was damn good, but I think his stats were inflated in part by being one of only two options (Walker being the other one) on pathetic teams and in part by being allowed to play ridiculous minutes and shoot whenever he wanted.

3. YES! Spitting on the other teams bench in a freaking pre-season game??? Acting like a thug and nearly costing your team a playoff win??? Trying to show up the coach when he didn't get his way??? Sulking on the bench instead of trying to encourage his teamates??? If those actions don't constitute a bad attitude I don't know what does and those are just examples from last season! He's a spoiled brat who has let his celebrity status go to his head. No matter how talented he is (and he is talented) I consider him to be a disgrace to the Celtic tradition and the sooner he is out of town the better I will like it. I'd rather take my chances with the kids and lose with class than to win with guys who think they have to stroke their own ego all the time.

4. Maybe. With the talent he posesses he could flourish in any system if his ego doesn't get in the way. If the last couple of years are any indication it won't happen, but it's won't be because he couldn't if he wanted to.

5. No, unless Doc lets him be a one man show while the rest of the team stands around and watches or unless the team proves to be unstoppable and wins so many games that it would be impossible for anyone to not get excited.

6. Definitely. Ainge would trade his mother if he could con someone into giving an unprotected first rounder for her. Heck he might even do it for a protected one! I don't think that there is anyone on the team who is truly "untouchable" and if the right deal comes along Pierce (or anyone else) is gone. I don't expect Pierce to demand a trade simply because that would hurt his trade value and Ainge might just keep him to spite him, but at this point I doubt that either side would mind a trade if a decent proposition was made. The biggest problem is that I don't see a player of equal talent beig available unless we give up one of our top kids and I don't think Ainge is that eager to see Pierce go. We might have to package Pierce with one of our second level kids and possibly filler and take back a slightly lesser player and expiring contracts. The only other option I see is a blockbuster with 3 or 4 player being packaged to get a stud and either draft picks or role players. Trying to read Ainge's mind is like looking at abstract art on acid...you may go completely insane, or you may just get a serious headache, but you're sure not going to figure out the puzzle. 

Well, I've said my piece so flame away. If he comes out and plays as a team player and busts his tail like he has done in the past, I'll gladly eat my words (like I've done on the Banks issue) but for now that is my opinion.


----------



## KingHandles (Mar 19, 2005)

aquaitious said:


> No way, there's absolutely no way that Pierce will ever get 26 points per game in this style of play.
> 
> There's also no way he'll get 10 rebounds, I think he's absolutly peaked and it may change by like .5 of a rebound.
> 
> ...


I figured with the given team Pierce will get more playing time therfore his numbers will increase. I don't think those are numbers that would make him the greatist player ever. It would just show that he will be carrieng the whole team the whole year...


----------



## SamIam (Jun 1, 2004)

banner17 said:


> I consider him an All Star, not a Superstar.
> 
> 
> Superstar I reserve for players that are pretty much untradeable
> ...


I just get so sick and tired of seeing Kobe and T-Mac called "superstars" in the same sentence that downgrades Pierce. How come Kobe couldn't lead Butler and Odom into the playoffs? Pierce took Atkins and Mihm there without anybody near as good as Odom or Butler. T-Mac has yet to win a playoff series in Orlando or Houston. Yet he is a superstar? NEVER WON A SERIES! 

I mean maybe I am a homer fan but honestly if Nomar was up there with Jeter and A-Rod then why isn't Pierce up there with Kobe and T-Mac? Because he is a vanilla player who doesn't look as good on ESPN? If statistically Pierce matches Kobe and T-Mac but is still able to win playoffs without a Shaq to carry him whereas neither Kobe or T-Mac can.... what are you using to justify calling them superstars and Pierce a mere all-star? Herd mentality.... that's what!


----------



## banner17 (Jun 28, 2003)

MindzEye said:


> I say Pierce averages around: 26ppg-10Rbs-6ast.



apparently you missed the Pitino press conference a few years back cause Larry Bird's not walking through those doors


----------



## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

MindzEye said:


> I figured with the given team Pierce will get more playing time therfore his numbers will increase. I don't think those are numbers that would make him the greatist player ever. It would just show that he will be carrieng the whole team the whole year...


Just because he has to "carry a team" it doesn't mean he'll be attempting twenty shots per game and collecting every defensive rebound. There is no chance that he'll average 20-10, absolutely none (well, unless we play small ball for the entire season).


----------



## whiterhino (Jun 15, 2003)

I completely agree with everything Backwards Bum stated. I will help Paul Pierce pack, I don't care how talented he is, I don't think he's HEALTHY for this team. 
He is NOT a superstar, he's an All-Star, there is a HUGE difference

Current Superstars = Shaq, Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett, LeBron James, Kobe Bryant and possibly Tracy McGrady & Allen Iverson
Former Superstars = Michael Jordan, Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, Hakeem Olaujuwon, John Stockton, Karl Malone, Wilt Chamberlain, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Jerry West, Bill Russell, Oscar Robertson, David Robinson etc...

Paul Pierce is NOT on this level and was not on this level even at his peak.


----------



## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

This is a 25 win squad without Pierce, and this is the wrong year to tank, the 2006 draft is going to be the worst since 2000. There aren't more than six players in that pool that will ever be productive starters on the NBA level. Five of them will be point guards. Next year is the year to tank as the 2007 draft will have three legit franchise players and a couple of others with four star potential.


----------



## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

ehmunro said:


> This is a 25 win squad without Pierce, and this is the wrong year to tank, the 2006 draft is going to be the worst since 2000. There aren't more than six players in that pool that will ever be productive starters on the NBA level. Five of them will be point guards. Next year is the year to tank as the 2007 draft will have three legit franchise players and a couple of others with four star potential.


Trade the lottery pick in 2006 for 2007's...


----------



## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

MindzEye said:


> I figured with the given team Pierce will get more playing time therfore his numbers will increase. I don't think those are numbers that would make him the greatist player ever. It would just show that he will be carrieng the whole team the whole year...


Paul already plays as much as possible. There are no more minutes to "get more playing time." He's an all-star, and it's not like we're giving him 20 minutes per game to develop him.


----------



## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

Nobody trades unprotected picks anymore. Especially not to acquire a mediocre player today at the expense of a much better one. The 2006 pick would likely end up being dealt for a pick in 2008, 2009, or 2010. The only upside is that they'd suck again in 2006-07, but I can't see this ownership group wanting that. Their goal is to be the Boston Bruins of the NBA, they want competitive, low priced, mediocrity. Good enough to keep ticket sales up, but not highly priced. They might tolerate one down year, but they won't take two. If you tank 2005-06 the owners are going to insist that the pick be used.


----------



## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

ehmunro said:


> Nobody trades unprotected picks anymore. Especially not to acquire a mediocre player today at the expense of a much better one. The 2006 pick would likely end up being dealt for a pick in 2008, 2009, or 2010. The only upside is that they'd suck again in 2006-07, but I can't see this ownership group wanting that. Their goal is to be the Boston Bruins of the NBA, they want competitive, low priced, mediocrity. Good enough to keep ticket sales up, but not highly priced. They might tolerate one down year, but they won't take two. If you tank 2005-06 the owners are going to insist that the pick be used.


You can always find a team that has that "panic" button, wants to get a pick and do it as soon as possible.

Next year just before the draft, we'll be talking about how deep the draft is and all we need is for someone to jump up on someone's radar.

Also, we should have a better chance of actually receiving a non-proteced pick if we give a lottery to them. The only thing that would suck is that we won't have a pick in 2006 (1st round). But 2007 we'll repeat the 2001 draft...quantity wise not quality.


----------



## KingHandles (Mar 19, 2005)

Does everyone think Pierce has completely peaked his game?


----------



## banner17 (Jun 28, 2003)

SamIam said:


> I just get so sick and tired of seeing Kobe and T-Mac called "superstars" in the same sentence that downgrades Pierce. How come Kobe couldn't lead Butler and Odom into the playoffs? Pierce took Atkins and Mihm there without anybody near as good as Odom or Butler.


There is a HUGE difference between the caliber of competition Kobe faced this year and that which Boston faced the year prior. There's really no comparison there.



SamIam said:


> T-Mac has yet to win a playoff series in Orlando or Houston. Yet he is a superstar? NEVER WON A SERIES!


Last I checked, the only time Paul ever won a playoff series was when Antoine was an All Star on the team and the competition in the eastern conference was pathetic. At that time it was T-Mac on five as Orlando had NO ONE else.
This season they had to play Dallas in the first round, who quite frankly was the better team and had home court advantage.



SamIam said:


> I mean maybe I am a homer fan but honestly if Nomar was up there with Jeter and A-Rod then why isn't Pierce up there with Kobe and T-Mac?


Back when they were the 'Big Three' I always considered Jeter and Nomar about equal. Nomar was obviously better offensively, Jeter slightly better defensively and both I considered to be All Stars. A-Rod I considered to be a Superstar. Mind you I'm about the biggest Red Sox fan you'll find too.



SamIam said:


> Because he is a vanilla player who doesn't look as good on ESPN?


Dirk is a rather vanilla player in the same regard to Pierce and I consider him a Superstar.



SamIam said:


> If statistically Pierce matches Kobe and T-Mac but is still able to win playoffs without a Shaq to carry him whereas neither Kobe or T-Mac can.... what are you using to justify calling them superstars and Pierce a mere all-star?


Again, since when has Pierce won a playoff series without Antoine? Even back then the East was pathetic, though I will give you that our win over Indy in 2003 was impressive.



SamIam said:


> Herd mentality.... that's what!


Fine, put me out to pasture with 99.9% of the people in this world who think that Kobe and T-Mac are better ball players. 

Look, its not blaspemy to call Pierce an All Star. I'm saying that he's one of the top 24 players in the league, which is a great compliment. I'd rank him in the top 20 and a couple of years ago when he had his head on straight a top 15 player.

I define a Superstar as a top ten player in the league. That's my own personal definition of it, others might feel differently. I consider T-Mac and Kobe to both be top ten players and I would venture to say a lot of other people do as well. I've never considered Pierce to be top ten - he was very close a couple of years ago though.


----------



## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

MindzEye said:


> Does everyone think Pierce has completely peaked his game?


Pierce has "mesaed".

He'll be at the same level for another three years before he starts declining.

Yes, I realise that I made up a word to describe Pierce.


----------



## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

Pierce is almost at McGrady's level, skill-wise.

Nobody can touch Kobe talent-wise, but his recent struggles have made him comparable to the other elite players.


----------



## agoo (Jun 1, 2003)

I feel like he is dematuring as his career has progressed, which is what bothers me. I enjoy his game and wouldn't trade his game. I'd gladly move the antics. The sulking, self-congratulating crap, and, most recently, the face bandage, which was horribly ridiculous.

I would not mind seeing him dealt if it made the team better, but I doubt that it would happen. So I guess we are graciously stuck with him.


----------



## banner17 (Jun 28, 2003)

agoo101284 said:


> I feel like he is dematuring as his career has progressed, which is what bothers me. I enjoy his game and wouldn't trade his game. I'd gladly move the antics. The sulking, self-congratulating crap, and, most recently, the face bandage, which was horribly ridiculous.
> 
> I would not mind seeing him dealt if it made the team better, but I doubt that it would happen. So I guess we are graciously stuck with him.



The 'head gear' was the nail in the coffin for me too. 

I absolutely loved his game until Walker left town and the sulking and bs antics began. 

I'm not trying to start an arguement here, but when Antoine left town, I realized that Paul bleeds Paul - he doesn't bleed green. Antoine has no where near the talent that Paul has, but at least I know what color his blood is.


----------



## LamarButler (Apr 16, 2005)

> the face bandage


Sorry if im missing something, but yea why was he wearing that? That was really unusual...

Paul Pierce is good but he's not on par with the greats or even the superstars in today's league. He has a work ethic problem and he puts himself before the team very often. 

No great players don't work hard. I mean, Kobe is a lil selfish sometimes, but has he ever slacked off?


----------



## KingHandles (Mar 19, 2005)

I don't really remember much of the bandage but if I recall correctly Pierce was hit in the face relativly soft but had good contact and should have been but wasnt a foul. So after the game at a press confrence or w/e I belive he had a bandage on his face. I thought it was funny, and made a statement that he is cheated out of alot of contact fouls because he likes to drive.


----------



## DWest Superstar (Jun 30, 2005)

Pierce is a crybaby plain and simple. I want to see Bill Lambier smack him every once in a while


----------



## KingHandles (Mar 19, 2005)

I would throw a fit too if I was treated that way by refs. Not calling a damn thing on the other team, but I breath on another dude and I get whisteld faster than ****.


----------



## banner17 (Jun 28, 2003)

MindzEye said:


> I would throw a fit too if I was treated that way by refs. Not calling a damn thing on the other team, but I breath on another dude and I get whisteld faster than ****.



now hold on one second. Pierce on offense is the recipient of more phantom calls than just about anyone in the league. Half of his game is doing a spin move into the lane, drawing the slightest contact and throwing his arms up like he was mauled.


----------



## agoo (Jun 1, 2003)

MindzEye said:


> I would throw a fit too if I was treated that way by refs. Not calling a damn thing on the other team, but I breath on another dude and I get whisteld faster than ****.


You're also 16. Paul Pierce is a professional athlete who is getting paid millions of dollars to be the face and captain of the franchise.

For example, could you see Jason Varitek (Red Sox captain) or Richard Seymour (Patriots captain) ever attempting anything similar?


----------



## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

> Jason Varitek (Red Sox captain)


Yes, I can. He freaked out at Rodriguez and started a bench clearing brawl, much worse than Pierce shoving Tinsley off of him.


----------



## DWest Superstar (Jun 30, 2005)

P-Dub34 said:


> Yes, I can. He freaked out at Rodriguez and started a bench clearing brawl, much worse than Pierce shoving Tinsley off of him.


Notice how Varitek recieved nothing but praise for that because it stepped up the teams gameplay. Pierce almost costed his team the season for doing that


----------



## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

Pierce _was_ the season.


----------



## agoo (Jun 1, 2003)

Gerald Green said:


> Notice how Varitek recieved nothing but praise for that because it stepped up the teams gameplay. Pierce almost costed his team the season for doing that


 He got in ARods face becaus ARod was yelling at the pitcher. Tek was protecting his teammates.

Pierce was saying, "Hey, look at me."


----------



## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

VTek kicked A-Rods ***.


----------



## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

> He got in ARods face becaus ARod was yelling at the pitcher. Tek was protecting his teammates.
> 
> Pierce was saying, "Hey, look at me."


Don't even. 

Jason Varitek was provoked by Alex Rodriguez and let his emotions get the better of him. [White Goodman]End o' story[/White Goodman]. You challenged me to find some poor behavior by Varitek, now I found it, only it wasn't "bad behavior". I guess smoking a guy in the face as hard as you can is way less severe than shoving a guy off you, right? Gimme a break.  Basically, by your logic, if Paul had got thrown outta Game 6 for clocking Tinsley because Jamaal was beaking a Celtic, it woulda been okay? 



> Pierce was the season.


You rule.

Just wondering, what do y'all think the final score of Game 6 would've been had Pierce not played? Loss by 20 or so?

Yeah, that sounds about right.


----------



## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

P-Dub34 said:


> Don't even.
> 
> Jason Varitek was provoked by Alex Rodriguez and let his emotions get the better of him. [White Goodman]End o' story[/White Goodman]. You challenged me to find some poor behavior by Varitek, now I found it, only it wasn't "bad behavior". I guess smoking a guy in the face as hard as you can is way less severe than shoving a guy off you, right? Gimme a break.  Basically, by your logic, if Paul had got thrown outta Game 6 for clocking Tinsley because Jamaal was beaking a Celtic, it woulda been okay?
> 
> ...


Teks and Paul were in completely different situations.

A-Rod didn't want to take his base and started arguing with the pitcher/ump, Tek told him to "take your base" and A-Rod replied with "**** you, **** you, **** you"

Pierce in his case was like A-Rod. He got hit, didn't want to just take the foul and started fighting...got ejected.


----------



## DWest Superstar (Jun 30, 2005)

Varitek is supposed to protect his pitcher. Any catcher should do that


----------



## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

> Varitek is supposed to protect his pitcher. Any catcher should do that


Pierce had a natural reaction. Any human being should do that.

What I am saying, guys: there are parallels.

Both were provoked.
Both lost their cool.

Are you guys actually telling me that if Pierce had smoked Tinsley because Jamaal said **** you to a teammate and got ejected, that you'd be any more forgiving? No chance. 

Boston, and it's media, always needs and will have a goat. Luckily for Varitek, he is loved by Boston (and happens to be one of my favorite MLB players, as well) and the Sox started winning afterwards. If the Sox go on a losing run, Varitek wouldn't be getting the credit he did. The Celtics got bounced from their first round series, and somehow it's all Paul Pierce's fault. From what I've read on here and on Boston newspaper sites, he gets most of the blame and guys like 'Toine (helped brick it away), Ricky (nonexistant), Gary (pathetic), Raef, etc. etc. don't get blamed. Why? Because you need a fall guy. Paul Pierce has exhibited poor attitude on occasion. And it's way easier for a guy with Pierce's tude to be the goat even after a terrific series than to give a guy like Walker that kind of blame.

Anyways, we're back to where we began: Agoo wanted an example of Varitek doing something Pierce-like, and I gave it to him. It is not different. Tek wouldn't need to protect his pitchers if they didn't drill guys on purpose. Both attacks were provoked and Pierce's was measurably less savage than Varitek's. The double standard here mystifies me. If you don't like Pierce, just say so. It'll save me the time of actually trying to make a point when I know it won't be taken.

Which brings me to my final point: Pierce was a stud all game. In fact, an argument can be made that he kept them in there despite Antoine "The Human Catapult" Walker, Gary "Let's Jack Up Another Three For Kicks" Payton, and Raef "I Can't Believe I'm Still On The Floor" LaFrentz. But Walker drains a trey and it's forgive and forget, baby! It's too bad Pierce's years of carrying the franchise and a great series can't do the same for him as Antoine's overtime three-pointer.

EDIT: If you read just one part of this rant, let this be it:

Tell me: If Pierce had decked Tinsley because he was beaking a Celtic, would it be okay? Just answer yes or no, in your opinion.


----------



## DWest Superstar (Jun 30, 2005)

> Pierce had a natural reaction. Any human being should do that.


 guess we disagree but I don't think Tinsley meant to hit him in the face. If he did hit him tough luck then buddy cry about it to the refs don't take the action out on the player and get ejected.

Also you got to from situations, the Red Sox were about 8.5 games out of the division lead and at that point slipping from the Wild Card. If there was nothing that would pump up the fans maybe some entertainment could have helped. The Red Sox were also down by 3 at that point and it looked like the game was getting out of reach (A-Rod is still a little ***** for trying to start that). 

Then you look at Pierce. You are on the verge of being eliminated up by 1 and need to sink the free throws to survive for another night. You get a little roughly fouled and instead of sucking it up because you already have 1 technical foul, but instead of sucking it up you decide that it is more importent to get someone off your back instead of have your season end. I think of Paul Pierce exactly like I thought of A-Rod when he was beamed. Walk to first you got hit suck it up. Pierce shoot the free throws gives you a chance to win suck it up. But instead of sucking it up they both make ***** moves and pay for it.

You go off and get yourself the best player on the team ejected that honestly was not a smart move and I doubt your boy Antoine would have done something like that. It is instances like that, that make me and I'm sure others question Pierce's desire to win. It seems he would rather get back at someone for a hard foul then to put the game away. That just disgustes me.You almost cost the team the game let alone the season.


----------



## agoo (Jun 1, 2003)

Both were provoked and both lost their cool. Varitek lost his cool protecting his pitcher and started a fight that really brought his team together. He got ejected, but he did not miss any portion of a playoff game (an elimination game at that) because of it. Pierce lost his cool and got ejected from a playoff game that, fortunately, the Celtics won.

Yes, it is a human reaction. However, these are professional athletes and they, particularly team captains like Pierce and Varitek (though he was not at the time), need to stay on the floor and cannot afford to have those reactions.


----------



## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

> However, these are professional athletes and they, particularly team captains like Pierce and Varitek (though he was not at the time), need to stay on the floor and cannot afford to have those reactions.


I completely agree with you. 



> Varitek lost his cool protecting his pitcher and started a fight that really brought his team together.


How did he know that it would bring his team together? It just as easily could've had a negative impact. But it didn't, so Varitek is the hero.



> You go off and get yourself the best player on the team ejected that honestly was not a smart move and I doubt your boy Antoine would have done something like that


"My boy" Antoine did it, but instead of just getting ejected, he got suspended for a game too. And even had Walker been in the same situation as Paul, he would've bricked the FT's anyways.



(Sorry, couldn't resist)


----------



## DWest Superstar (Jun 30, 2005)

> How did he know that it would bring his team together? It just as easily could've had a negative impact. But it didn't, so Varitek is the hero.


What Varitek did was last resort. We see what A-Rod said to his face. Pierce was just a Soft L and could not take a foul



> "My boy" Antoine did it, but instead of just getting ejected, he got suspended for a game too. And even had Walker been in the same situation as Paul, he would've bricked the FT's anyways.


I was reffering to the fact that Antoine would not cost his team the game. 

Also one more thing Varitek was protecting his pitcher. Which is what you are susposed (sp?) to do. Pierce did not think about anyone but himself when he did that remark.


----------



## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

> I was reffering to the fact that Antoine would not cost his team the game.


By being the team's 2nd best player and getting himself suspended, he indeed put himself in a position to cost the C's the game. Luckily Pierce saves our butts.



> What Varitek did was last resort. We see what A-Rod said to his face. Pierce was just a Soft L and could not take a foul


If Tinsley says "**** you" to Pierce's face, then he can knock his *** out? You can stop using the "A-Rod was beaking him excuse" because it wouldn't fly w/ Pierce.

Once again, if you don't like Pierce, just say so. Find a different reason why Tek's actions were so much more acceptable than Pierce's. The big game/little game argument had some merit, although that game was huge for the Sox as their season was rapidly slipping through their fingers. But don't even try and make "A-Rod was beaking him" an excuse for it.


----------



## DWest Superstar (Jun 30, 2005)

> By being the team's 2nd best player and getting himself suspended, he indeed put himself in a position to cost the C's the game. Luckily Pierce saves our butts.


You can say the exact reverse about game 6



> If Tinsley says "**** you" to Pierce's face, then he can knock his *** out? You can stop using the "A-Rod was beaking him excuse" because it wouldn't fly w/ Pierce.


I will say this again. V-Tek did not almost cost his team the season. These are two completly different situations. If V-Tek had done that in game 6 of the ALCS and gotten ejected I would of been infuriated. Also whe V-Tek hit A-Rod I don't think there was no Bostonian without a smile on there face. But when Pierce did that me and all the people that I know were all infuriated because he almost blew it for us.


----------



## SamIam (Jun 1, 2004)

banner17 said:


> There is a HUGE difference between the caliber of competition Kobe faced this year and that which Boston faced the year prior. There's really no comparison there.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You make excuses for Kobe despite the fact that with Butler and Odom his team was worse than Boston's last year. Why was it worse? Maybe it was worse because he isn't as good as Paul. Clearly Caron = Ricky and Odom > Walker and Mihm >Blount and Atkins > Payton. So what gives? Head to head Paul always outplays Kobe. Now that Shaq isn't around to command triple teams and shoot 15-18 against the Celtics Kobe looks pretty average actually.

McGrady is a ***** and always will be one. The guy has the most talent for a wing in the NBA and should be Jordan. But he isn't. He is a loser and will always be a loser. You want him? You can have him. I'll take Pierce any day. But since you insist he is great and Paul isn't.... what are you basing it on? Statistically he only beats Pierce due to the number of shots he takes (which are usually in the first 3 quarters because he usually gets a little tight when the game is on the line).


----------



## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

SamIam, you could perform much deeper statistical analysis to prove that statement is wrong and unjustified although I must admit that Pierce and McGrady are very close once it comes to statistics which Tracy edging Pierce out.


----------



## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

P-Dub34 said:


> Are you guys actually telling me that if Pierce had smoked Tinsley because Jamaal said **** you to a teammate and got ejected, that you'd be any more forgiving?


They are specifically not saying that. In fact, look at the Walker hate. The incident that led to Walker's suspension began with Walker getting in between Jermaine O'Neal and Delonte West, and as a result the Celtics rallied and played their best game of the series. So apparently the praise for that sort of thing is doled out selectively.


----------



## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

> You can say the exact reverse about game 6


Perhaps, but your reply is a poor rebuttal to me proving your statement, "I was reffering to the fact that Antoine would not cost his team the game" totally false. In fact, Antoine did that even moreso when he rendered himself unable to play completely. What did Pierce have when he was booted? 20/11/6 or something? As for Antoine, who knows what the score would've been had he (and Payton) not been in full catapult mode all game. 

Why does Paul get more blame for his actions than Antoine's, when Walker got suspended for another game? I'll say it again: It's a shame all Walker's sins are forgiven for an overtime three when Pierce gets held to his mistakes despite years of contributions to this team. Lant said it best: Pierce is what has kept this team from being the Atlanta Hawks of the league since he was drafted.

ehmunro, good point. That game just goes to show how devastating Paul can be.


----------



## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

Shaq kept the Lakers from being a lottery team.[/fallacy]


----------



## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

> Shaq kept the Lakers from being a lottery team.[/fallacy]


What is the point you're trying to make, exactly?


----------



## DWest Superstar (Jun 30, 2005)

> Why does Paul get more blame for his actions than Antoine's, when Walker got suspended for another game?


Because Antoine Walker is not the team captain. The captain should lead his team to victory not get ejected in one of the biggest games of his life


----------



## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

The point I'm trying to make that it is illogical to just make blind statements like "Pierce is what has kept this team from being the Atlanta Hawks of the league since he was drafted." because the same can be said for most NBA stars.


----------



## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

> The point I'm trying to make that it is illogical to just make blind statements like "Pierce is what has kept this team from being the Atlanta Hawks of the league since he was drafted." because the same can be said for most NBA stars.


Ehh...

It's not illogical at all. Because Pierce _is_ what kept the C's from being the Hawks. Just because it can be said about many stars doesn't mean it isn't applicable or true. The Lakers wouldn't be the Hawks without Shaq. They were bad, but they also lost key roleplayers. The '03-'04 team w/o Pierce? Waay worse than this years Lakeshow. In fact, this year's Lakers team doesn't seem a whole lot worse than the Celtic one. The Heat aren't the Hawks w/o Shaq. The Spurs aren't the Hawks w/o Duncan. Jerey aren't the Hawks w/o Kidd. Detroit aren't the Hawks w/o Ben Wallace. Chicago aren't the Hawks w/o Kirk Hinrich. Indy aren't the Hawks w/o JO. Washington aren't the Hawks w/o Arenas.

By contrast, the Celtics WOULD have been the Hawks without Pierce last year. And they'll be damn close to it this year without Paul.


----------



## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

I fail to see how Paul is getting more blame than Antoine. As far as I know, everyone wanted Antoine out of town, and got their wish.


----------



## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

> I fail to see how Paul is getting more blame than Antoine. As far as I know, everyone wanted Antoine out of town, and got their wish.


There's a large number who wouldn't mind seeing Paul's *** gone. And his incident gets more press than 'Toine's, and is used as a reason why people want him gone. Even though we lose in 5 without him.


----------



## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

His incident got more press than Antoine because Pierce is the bigger star.


----------



## KingHandles (Mar 19, 2005)

If I could have my way Walker would have never been traded his whole carrer and Pierce will never be traded.But I can't.

As far as Pierce or Walker being wrong for getting ejected....Thats bull**** if your team isn't strong enough to stand ounce a leg is kicked out...**** better start going in a new direction.Neither one deserves more blame both players did what a normal passionate player would.

For the recored I completely agree with anything SamIam has said through this theread


----------



## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

I don't think Pierce is a superstar. A bonafide star? Most certainly. A franchise star? Depends on what you're after, but I think so.

I group stars in four tiers -- the 1st tier being the elite (only a handful of players), the 2nd tier being just a notch below elite, the 3rd tier being the all-stars, the 4th tier being the occasional all-stars whose play and effect on a game often far exceed their stats. I put Pierce in that 2nd tier, along with guys like Wade, Allen (both borderline 1st tier), Carter, Arenas and Nash.


----------



## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

> Allen


If Paul Pierce isn't borderline top tier, Ray Allen isn't.


----------



## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

P-Dub34 said:


> If Paul Pierce isn't borderline top tier, Ray Allen isn't.


Good call -- you're correct. Move Allen to 2nd tier.


----------



## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

bump


----------



## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

Digging up old threads... 

Pierce is playing not just like a top tier star - but like an NBA MVP.


----------



## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

Premier said:


> The funniest part of my post:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


things do change


----------



## P2TheTruth34 (May 25, 2003)

funny to see how mad some people were at paul for gettin kicked out of that indiana game.


----------



## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

i wasn't mad at him really for getting booted (we won the game, who gives a ****), just that ridiculous bandage thing bugged me.


----------



## P2TheTruth34 (May 25, 2003)

TheBigDonut said:


> i wasn't mad at him really for getting booted (we won the game, who gives a ****), just that ridiculous bandage thing bugged me.


yea i have to say that was amazingly ridiculous, but at the same point im so glad paul did it. one of the most entertaining off court things hes ever done, and IMO it was pretty hilarious, despite the immaturity he showed.


----------



## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

i didn't think it was funny at all. Just stupid.


----------



## KingHandles (Mar 19, 2005)

I LOVE Paul Pierce...I never want him to leave.


----------



## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

KingHandles said:


> I LOVE Paul Pierce...I never want him to leave.


He loves you too man. He loves you too.


----------

