# Would anyone do Jamal for Caron Butler or Camelo Anthony



## FJ_of _Rockaway (May 28, 2002)

Assuming by the trade deadline that Jamal is averaging 16ppg , 6apg and 3rpg ??


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## FJ_of _Rockaway (May 28, 2002)

Assuming too that KH proved capable and that we were able to get a hold of Kenny Andersen


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

Yes I would. But I would include E-rob in the package. However, doesn't Denver have A Miller? So our best bet would be Miami. Crawford for Butler but we would throw in E-rob for their junk. 

I doubt that Riley would do this. He needs his junk. E-robs contract and Crawford being up for one soon, makes it doubtful. 

That is assuming hinrich is a solid player and of course we could get anderson for the short haul. Draft a pg next year.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

In our make-believe scenario how good is Melo doing?

And if we assume that Hinrich is doing capable...yeah I guess I'd deal him for Butler. Maybe. I mean, if Jamal is putting up those solid of numbers, I think I'd probably want to get rid of Hinrich instead. Hinrich and Fizer for Wade and Rasual Butler, I'd do that.


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## Jim Stack (Sep 4, 2003)

nah id hold out for king james  i mean this is a a dream right. 

translation if jamal is playing good enought to warrent us getting mello or butler them maybe we should keep him being that he is a 6-6 pg and thats much more rare then a sf or sg


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

i would do a trade for melo but not butler 

pgs are valuable much moreso than swingman all things being close to equal unless they are going to be dominant at their position

carmelo could be a top 3 in the league as in top 3 one day i dont see that future for caron 

can anyone say they can see butler being up there with pierce ,kobe or t-mac?

its hard for me to see anthony there but i can at least see the possibility


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

I've heard of "taking one for the team" But I'm not going to "do" Jamal no matter who we get in return. First of all I'm straight. Second, I'm married.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

Stupid jokes aside, IF Kirk manages to come in and show he is the Bird-Apparent (kudos to DaBullz) I'd do it in a heartbeat -- Butler yes, Melo HELL yes.

But short of Kirk coming in and lighting the league on fire out of the box, I'd rather suffer a bit at 3 and keep a still-getting-better JCraw and developing a potentially exciting Hinrich.


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## Jim Ian (Aug 6, 2002)

*Re: Re: Would anyone do Jamal for Caron Butler or Camelo Anthony*



> Originally posted by <b>TomBoerwinkle#1</b>!
> I've heard of "taking one for the team" But I'm not going to "do" Jamal no matter who we get in return. First of all I'm straight. Second, I'm married.


I think that's pretty darn selfish of you.

I nominate TB#1 to be the guy to "take one for the team" from this moment forward!!!! :grinning:

C'mon... it's the least you could do... we're all... ahem... "behind" you... :woot:


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## TRUTHHURTS (Mar 1, 2003)

I Think if Crawford is averaging 16 and 6 with a similar A/t ratio that he displayed this year and gives us 46% from 2 and 41% from 3 with ability to throw up 33 and 8 when needed then I would be more inclined to keep him and try to get Utah to give us Harpring for Erob and Kirk at the trade deadline.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Would anyone do Jamal for Caron Butler or Camelo Anthony*



> Originally posted by <b>Jim Ian</b>!
> 
> :woot:


From this time forward, I'll never use the "Woot" smilie again...


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Would anyone do Jamal for Caron Butler or Camelo Anthony*



> Originally posted by <b>Jim Ian</b>!
> 
> 
> I think that's pretty darn selfish of you.
> ...


:laugh:


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## Jim Ian (Aug 6, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Would anyone do Jamal for Caron Butler or Camelo Anthony*



> Originally posted by <b>TomBoerwinkle#1</b>!
> 
> 
> From this time forward, I'll never use the "Woot" smilie again...



C'mon, the "woot" guy is just excited that your dedication to the Bulls will be netting us Caron or Melo.

Or... both?

How much of a _team_ player are you!? :woot:


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## MichaelOFAZ (Jul 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>FJ_of _Rockaway</b>!
> Assuming by the trade deadline that Jamal is averaging 16ppg , 6apg and 3rpg ??


Nope. Not in a million years.


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## NugzFan (Jul 26, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>FJ_of _Rockaway</b>!
> Assuming by the trade deadline that Jamal is averaging 16ppg , 6apg and 3rpg ??


:laugh: @ that trade!

as for jamal for melo....omg. :laugh: * 10000.


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## NugzFan (Jul 26, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>futuristxen</b>!
> In our make-believe scenario how good is Melo doing?


trust me, it. does. not. matter.


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## ScottVdub (Jul 9, 2002)

we shoulda assumed that once something nuggets related was posted nugzfan would come in. i could make a post about my love for mcdonalds chicken nuggets and im sure hed have some say in the matter.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

Yeah, I'm sure Nugzfan is just excited because the Nugs got Arenas :grinning: 

Anyways, this would be a tough tough trade to think about doing. I think Butler and Anthony will both be pretty good...and of course Crawford will be pretty decent himself. Still, I think I would hold onto Crawford because I don't think we need a rookie pg leading this team. Now maybe if the deal involved a vet pg and unloading -Rob's contract it would bear some serious consideration. In any case, this is definitley a deal that the Bulls brass would have to look at.


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## RP McMurphy (Jul 17, 2003)

Sorry guys, but NugzFan is right. The Nuggets would never do this trade for the same reason that the Bulls would be absolute morons not to do this trade. Forget about whether you need a PG or a SF at this point, you're a rebuilding team anyway. If you can get your hands on a potential superstar like Anthony, you take him, and then sign next year's Speedy Claxton or Kevin Ollie to be your point guard, or else draft another one.


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## ScottVdub (Jul 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ArtestFan</b>!
> Sorry guys, but NugzFan is right. The Nuggets would never do this trade for the same reason that the Bulls would be absolute morons not to do this trade. Forget about whether you need a PG or a SF at this point, you're a rebuilding team anyway. If you can get your hands on a potential superstar like Anthony, you take him, and then sign next year's Speedy Claxton or Kevin Ollie to be your point guard, or else draft another one.


nobody was making up trade rumors, the thread was made to see if bulls fans would trade for a caron butler or a carmello anthony.


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## RP McMurphy (Jul 17, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>ScottVdub</b>!
> 
> 
> nobody was making up trade rumors, the thread was made to see if bulls fans would trade for a caron butler or a carmello anthony.




I know. And I said that they would be absolute morons not to.


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## ScottVdub (Jul 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ArtestFan</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


my bad i got the impression that u thought there was some trade rumour goin cuz you said "the nuggets would never do this trade for the same reason they bulls would" so i was wondering why the nuggets were even being brought up. But yeah Id trade jamal for carmello or caron, im not gonna overvalue my boy jamal that much.


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

I would strongly consider a trade for Caron. I'm high on that guy. His MO coming out was his defense (as a rook he struggled) but I imagine that'll improve in year 2 just at it did for Ron-Ron. Caron is going to be a stud and the kid is tough.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

I don't think Melo is an option... after getting Miller, the Nugs won't want Jamal.

The Heat believe Wade is a PG. I don't, but ok, with a combination of him, Jones, Odom, and CB, they could make that work in a couple years when they've gotten some experience. Much like the Bulls teams, they'll have a lot of guys who can handle the rock, if not true PGs.

For us, what does this trade do?

1. Right now, we have a good young PG and an unknown but potentially good one behind him. We've got a good old SF and nothing behind him.
- Star young PG, potential star rookie PG
- Star old SF, no one

If we make the trade, we get rid of our good young PG and get a good young SF, and move our good old SF to PG.
- Star old PG, potential star rookie PG
- Star young SF, no one

Well, this works out pretty well, actually. All that's contingent is what you think of Hinrich. After a half a season, it won't be apparent on the court, I think, but a *savvy coach and GM* should be able to tell if they think he's gonna be a star, ok, or not much. At least, they should have an inkling about it.

2. A second thing this trade does is it VASTLY improves our cap position for next year. We no longer have to worry about re-signing a big money player when we still have ERob under contract... Butler won't be eligeable for big money for two more seasons, so we'd be in much better shape.

3. OK, so what's the downside? 
* Well, for one, Jamal might be more than just good... and Caron might just be good. If Jamal shows he's a "difference-making" player, you don't trade him for a guy who's just good and fills a need.
* For two, Hinrich might not be all that. I don't mind moving Jamal if Pip is ready to go and we're relatively sure that Hinrich will be as good or close to as good a player a couple years down the road, but those are big ifs.
* For three, it'll screw up team chemistry and experience in the midst of a playoff run. If we're in the playoff hunt and then pull this trade, we damn well better step it up a notch afterwards or heads will certainly roll.


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## Bullhawk (Sep 8, 2003)

I mentioned this in another thread that if Hinrich shows that he can be the guy then next offseason trade Crawford,Erob,Fizer(?) for Lewis,Potapenko. 


Pippen,Hinrich
Rose,Gill
Lewis,(Rose)
Chandler,Marshall
Curry,Potapenko


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## Showtyme (Jun 24, 2002)

Crawford + Blount

for

Alston + Samaki Walker + Butler

Chicago trades: PG Jamal Crawford (10.7 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 4.2 apg in 24.9 minutes) 
PF Corie Blount (3.0 ppg, 4.1 rpg, 1.0 apg in 16.7 minutes) 
Chicago receives: PG Rafer Alston (7.8 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 4.1 apg in 20.8 minutes) 
SF Caron Butler (15.4 ppg, 5.1 rpg, 2.7 apg in 36.6 minutes) 
PF Samaki Walker (4.4 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 1.0 apg in 18.6 minutes) 
Change in team outlook: +13.9 ppg, +6.5 rpg, and +2.6 apg. 

Miami trades: PG Rafer Alston (7.8 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 4.1 apg in 20.8 minutes) 
SF Caron Butler (15.4 ppg, 5.1 rpg, 2.7 apg in 36.6 minutes) 
PF Samaki Walker (4.4 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 1.0 apg in 18.6 minutes) 
Miami receives: PG Jamal Crawford (10.7 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 4.2 apg in 80 games) 
PF Corie Blount (3.0 ppg, 4.1 rpg, 1.0 apg in 50 games) 
Change in team outlook: -13.9 ppg, -6.5 rpg, and -2.6 apg. 

TRADE ACCEPTED

The swingman positions are in control with Jones, Wade, and Odom. Caron can be let go fairly expendably.

Getting a true point guard with size, of the caliber of Jamal Crawford... that makes this deal go.

Blount and Walker and Rafer (although he's a fan favorite, he probably STILL won't get THAT much time on the court) are all kind of the junks of the trade, but Blount gives them a defensive presence up front, which Walker (foul prone and stupid) doesn't do.

If we could, it would be cool to send them Fizer and actually benefit their team, and then take Rasual and Jerome Beasley off of their hands. But Miami's not really suffering that badly in the frontcourt, esp. at PF... they really do need a center, though.


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## Petey (Aug 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ScottVdub</b>!
> we shoulda assumed that once something nuggets related was posted nugzfan would come in. i could make a post about my love for mcdonalds chicken nuggets and im sure hed have some say in the matter.


Do it up man, it would be worth the laughs.

-Petey


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## HEATLUNATIC (May 27, 2002)

1. U ARENT gettin CB4 for Crawford!!!:devil: 

2. Why would we trade for Crawford when we have Wade who is damn near the same player,but with way more potential?!?!

3. Would the Bulls trade Chandler/E-Rob and Blount for B.G. and a 03/#1 thats Top 5 protected???It worked on RealGM!!!


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## Showtyme (Jun 24, 2002)

You seriously think Wade and Crawford are alike?

Have you SEEN Wade play? Their styles are totally different. Wade goes crazy, pushing hard, explosive, aggressive, high energy in every facet. Crawford can be explosive, but is much more the smooth player. He has And1-style handles, maybe, but the one thing that all Bulls fans readily admit is that he needs to continue to get a lot stronger.

Wade is going to be a monster. But he's anything but a Crawford replica.

A lineup of:

Crawford
Jones
Odom
Grant
Allen

with Wade providing spark off the bench and Blount as the next primary big man

is a lot more natural than

Wade
Jones
Odom
Grant
Allen

with Butler providing spark off the bench and Samaki Walker as the next primary big man

It makes SENSE to have Wade be the spark off the bench. In a few years, if the Heat end up in the lottery around 8 or so and got a hold of Ha Seung-Jin (7-3 smoother than Yao), the lineup (post-trade) might be:

Crawford
Wade
Odom
Grant
Ha

Look at the youth, yet the maturity of the lineup. All near their primes. A Crawford-Wade backcourt makes more sense than a Wade-Butler one (Wade is naturally a SG and Butler is naturally an SF, and Odom doesn't play PG full-time at all).

I'm not really pro-trading Crawford... I think actually the Bulls might lose out more on this deal in the short run than the Heat will, and I think that we might be able to hold on to Craw and draft a SF as good as Butler this year. Hopefully we won't end up in the lottery, but packaging Hinrich and our 04 pick (hopefully between 11-15) to a team like Cleveland for their pick (probably around 6) and some filler (Chris Mihm? Kevin Ollie?) would land us a guy like Luol Deng, who will be as good or better than Caron. Or we might even take an Antoine Wright, without requiring an upgrade in the draft.

But I don't think Crawford for Caron is a ridiculous trade whatsoever, especially for a team like the Heat that lacks a really solid starting talent at PG. There will be fun experiments this year, with Odom, Wade, and Rafer all looking to be really interesting splitting time at PG, but the bottom line is that the Miami Heat would be an improved team with Crawford at the point.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Chicago trades: SF Eddie Robinson (5.7 ppg, 3.1 rpg, 1.0 apg in 21.2 minutes) 
C Tyson Chandler (9.2 ppg, 6.8 rpg, 1.0 apg in 24.4 minutes) 
PG Jamal Crawford (10.7 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 4.2 apg in 24.9 minutes) 
Chicago receives: SF Caron Butler (15.4 ppg, 5.1 rpg, 2.7 apg in 36.6 minutes) 
SG Eddie Jones (18.5 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 3.7 apg in 38.1 minutes) 
Change in team outlook: +8.3 ppg, -2.3 rpg, and +0.2 apg. 

Miami trades: SF Caron Butler (15.4 ppg, 5.1 rpg, 2.7 apg in 36.6 minutes) 
SG Eddie Jones (18.5 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 3.7 apg in 38.1 minutes) 
Miami receives: SF Eddie Robinson (5.7 ppg, 3.1 rpg, 1.0 apg in 64 games) 
C Tyson Chandler (9.2 ppg, 6.8 rpg, 1.0 apg in 75 games) 
PG Jamal Crawford (10.7 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 4.2 apg in 80 games) 
Change in team outlook: -8.3 ppg, +2.3 rpg, and -0.2 apg. 

TRADE ACCEPTED

Due to Chicago and Miami being over the cap, the 15% trade rule is invoked. Chicago and Miami had to be no more than 115% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

I don't particularly like that trade. It sure fills out Miami's lineup VERY nicely, and it might be the only kind of trade they'd consider for Butler:

Crawford
Wade
Chandler
Odom
Grant

We'd be weak at backup center, but we'd have a real strong rotation of 5 guys for 3 positions (PG/SG/SF) in Rose, Pippen, Jones, Butler, and Gill. We'd have Curry, Marshall, Fizer, Baxter, and Blount, basically, to play PF and C.

Our future would reside in Fizer, Butler, Curry, Hinrich, and Baxter.

Our front line would be set for a decade or more (Fizer, Curry, Butler).


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## Showtyme (Jun 24, 2002)

I started out liking this trade, simply because Caron is a huge talent. But I think we benefit Miami too much, and here are the problems:

1. The most prominent problem with the trade is Jones' effectiveness. Eddie Jones of two years ago, I'd be pretty HAPPY with the trade. Jones was good at everything a SG should be good at: range shooting, penetrating, and defending at his position. He's also a decent rebounder and an okay passer. But that's not the same EJ of today. He's aging much quicker than other players his age, and becoming less and less effective. He's injury prone, and with the emphasis of his offense stepping up (which he hasn't really done a lot), his defense has begun to falter (2.67 stls per game in 99-00 compared to 1.36 in 02-03). 

2. Chandler is going to be the best defensive center in the East if he goes to the Heat. Riley is going to make him into the second coming of Zo, and that's a very sensible direction for him to head. He'll certainly get the playing time, and Riley is going to drool over his natural defensive ability.

3. We lose our best defender, Chandler, in the form of a big, and we get a very decent defender, Butler. Fizer and Baxter give us good options at PF, but not like Chandler.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

I wasn't proposing the trade. I was looking at what I thought was a realistic scenario where we could get Butler.

I would point out that if the trade were made, I don't think Rose would be a starter. That's how good we'd be ;-)

Pippen
Jones
Curry
Butler
Marshall

In many respects, Jones was better last season than two seasons ago. He was hurt, though, and maybe he's fragile. That'd be a gamble.

We could substitute Grant for Jones, but I don't think Miami would go for it. It would make our backup C a lot stronger, and he'd probably start at PF for us.

I think you are real close on your point #3. I don't think we want to make Miami into a tough team for us to beat in the playoffs ;-)


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## Bullhawk (Sep 8, 2003)

Chandler is not going anywhere. This team is being built around Chandler and Curry at PF/C with role players/veterans complimenting them at the other positions. No star players at SG/SF just players to play good defense, feed the post, and hit open jumpers. I believe these 5 are mainstays and everyone else will be fill ins that may change from year to year.


Crawford,Hinrich
???
???
Chandler,Fizer
Curry


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## Bob_Saget (Aug 29, 2003)

heres a better question.... If Tyson is averaging 12 and 8, would you trade him for AlHarrington or Ron Artest?


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## Bob_Saget (Aug 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Bob_Saget</b>!
> heres a better question.... If Tyson is averaging 12 and 8, would you trade him for AlHarrington or Ron Artest?


and if your answer is "no, why would you trade him when he's finally breaking out", then thats your answer to Jc trades.


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## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Bob_Saget</b>!
> heres a better question.... If Tyson is averaging 12 and 8, would you trade him for AlHarrington or Ron Artest?


I would not trade Chandler now for both of those guys.


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## Bob_Saget (Aug 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>johnston797</b>!
> 
> 
> I would not trade Chandler now for both of those guys.


me too, why trade him when he's finally putting it all together on the court?


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## HEATLUNATIC (May 27, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Showtyme</b>!
> You seriously think Wade and Crawford are alike?
> 
> Have you SEEN Wade play? Their styles are totally different. Wade goes crazy, pushing hard, explosive, aggressive, high energy in every facet. Crawford can be explosive, but is much more the smooth player. He has And1-style handles, maybe, but the one thing that all Bulls fans readily admit is that he needs to continue to get a lot stronger.
> ...


Ive seen Wade play many times,and when I said Wade and Crawford are damn near the same player I meant that they are both combo guards!The only thing Crawford has on Wade is 3pt range,but Wade has been workin out with Tim Hardaway this summer to improve his PG and shooting skillz!Dont give me that crap about Crawford having And-1 type handle,cuz thats all flash and is pretty much frowned upon in the NBA!Wade has good handle and court vision,and when it comes to D he blows Crawford out of the water!Wade is the superior athlete and defender,not to mention the fact that at 6'4-6'5 hes got the wingspan of someone thats 6'9 which allows him to guard PG,SG and at times SF!The bottom line is that as a rook Wade will be just as good if not better then Crawford,and hes got a higher ceiling!


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## MightyReds2020 (Jul 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>HEATLUNATIC</b>!
> 
> 
> Ive seen Wade play many times,and when I said Wade and Crawford are damn near the same player I meant that they are both combo guards!The only thing Crawford has on Wade is 3pt range,but Wade has been workin out with Tim Hardaway this summer to improve his PG and shooting skillz!Dont give me that crap about Crawford having And-1 type handle,cuz thats all flash and is pretty much frowned upon in the NBA!Wade has good handle and court vision,and when it comes to D he blows Crawford out of the water!Wade is the superior athlete and defender,not to mention the fact that at 6'4-6'5 hes got the wingspan of someone thats 6'9 which allows him to guard PG,SG and at times SF!The bottom line is that as a rook Wade will be just as good if not better then Crawford,and hes got a higher ceiling!


I do not agree. Crawford is a pure PG. He may not have Kidd's vision but he's a PG nonetheless. Wade, on the other hand, hasn't proved he can handle the point and that's what the Heat expect to get from him this season and maybe in the future. IMO Wade is more closer to Larry Hughes than Gilbert Arenas at this moment. Those two are best examples of why you should/shouldn't turn a smalish SG into PG. Remember, Hughes is touted as a very explosive SG with very good passing skills along with huge potentials in his first year in the league. Until Wade plays some games with some success, I won't consider him a 'true' PGs.


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## HEATLUNATIC (May 27, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>MightyReds2020</b>!
> 
> 
> I do not agree. Crawford is a pure PG. He may not have Kidd's vision but he's a PG nonetheless. Wade, on the other hand, hasn't proved he can handle the point and that's what the Heat expect to get from him this season and maybe in the future. IMO Wade is more closer to Larry Hughes than Gilbert Arenas at this moment. Those two are best examples of why you should/shouldn't turn a smalish SG into PG. Remember, Hughes is touted as a very explosive SG with very good passing skills along with huge potentials in his first year in the league. Until Wade plays some games with some success, I won't consider him a 'true' PGs.


Wade isnt a true PG and we arent tryn to turn him into one!With Odom and CB4 we have 2 point forwards that have good court vision and handle!In other words Wade will be playing PG,but he wont be handling the PG duties!He will guard the opposing teams PG on D,but Odom and Caron will bring the ball up the court and set up the O!

If u read my post youll see that I said Wade is a combo guard,not a true PG!Hughes was a great combo guard until the Warriors tried to turn him into a true PG!By turning him into a true PG and making him bring the rock up the court and set up the O on every play they took away his biggest strength which was slashing!The Heat arent gonna do that to Wade,so dont compare him to Hughes!


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## NugzFan (Jul 26, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ScottVdub</b>!
> we shoulda assumed that once something nuggets related was posted nugzfan would come in. i could make a post about my love for mcdonalds chicken nuggets and im sure hed have some say in the matter.


recap...

step 1: bulls board proposes a horribly unfair deal (in this case jamal crawford for carmelo anthony)

step 2: i tell them its horrible

step 3: they complain and whine about me calling their horrible trade, horrible. they are confused. they wish i wouldnt. 

step 4: i laugh


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## NugzFan (Jul 26, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ace20004u</b>!
> Yeah, I'm sure Nugzfan is just excited because the Nugs got Arenas :grinning:
> 
> Anyways, this would be a tough tough trade to think about doing. I think Butler and Anthony will both be pretty good...and of course Crawford will be pretty decent himself. Still, I think I would hold onto Crawford because I don't think we need a rookie pg leading this team. Now maybe if the deal involved a vet pg and unloading -Rob's contract it would bear some serious consideration. In any case, this is definitley a deal that the Bulls brass would have to look at.


we didnt get arenas! we got andre miller! 

lol @ "trade the bulls would have to LOOK AT"

(after looking at such trade, the bulls 'brass' would jump and scream in delight then gleefully accept such trade)


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## NugzFan (Jul 26, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ArtestFan</b>!
> Sorry guys, but NugzFan is right. The Nuggets would never do this trade for the same reason that the Bulls would be absolute morons not to do this trade. Forget about whether you need a PG or a SF at this point, you're a rebuilding team anyway. If you can get your hands on a potential superstar like Anthony, you take him, and then sign next year's Speedy Claxton or Kevin Ollie to be your point guard, or else draft another one.


:yes: 

artestfan=pretty darn smart


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## NugzFan (Jul 26, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ScottVdub</b>!
> 
> 
> nobody was making up trade rumors, the thread was made to see if bulls fans would trade for a caron butler or a carmello anthony.


shhhh...if you listen you can hear scottvdub slowly trying to backout of a hole he has dug himself into. listen...


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## NugzFan (Jul 26, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Petey</b>!
> 
> 
> Do it up man, it would be worth the laughs.
> ...


hey im game...some PM me if you decide to do it.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Bob_Saget</b>!
> heres a better question.... If Tyson is averaging 12 and 8, would you trade him for AlHarrington or Ron Artest?


no. Not in the same division. And if he is averaging 12-8 this year, we keep him for sure. You might throw in about two blocks a game with that.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>NugzFan</b>!
> 
> 
> recap...
> ...



*step 1: bulls board proposes a horribly unfair deal (in this case jamal crawford for carmelo anthony)*

Doesn't every board? 

*step 3: they complain and whine about me calling their horrible trade, horrible. they are confused. they wish i wouldnt.*

Not everyone is confused.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>NugzFan</b>!
> 
> 
> we didnt get arenas! we got andre miller!
> ...



Oh yeah, that IS right, you guys DID get Miller and not Arenas. Dang, I coulda swore that you had told me Arenas was in the bag for Denver. Well Miller is definitley a solid pick up....I just hope he fits in your system better than he fit in in Clipperland (as if THATS hard to do). 

I think the Bulls brass has a better eye for talent than you give them credit for. And I doubt they would JUMP at any trade involving Crawford unless it was involving about a dozen names, none of which happen to be Anthony or Butler. Like I said, they would definitley give it some consideration. Personally, I think in the end JC will actually prove to be better than Butler...Anthony MAY end up being as good or better than JC, but a bird in the bush is worth two in the hand, or so proverbs tell us.


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## NugzFan (Jul 26, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>truebluefan</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


1. i dont know. i dont care.

2. most people seem to be


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## NugzFan (Jul 26, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ace20004u</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


arenas was in the bag...if we wanted to pay. kiki didnt want to. 

and yes miller will fit better in our system than he did in LA. he would fit better in ANY system compared to LA.

and yes the bulls would trade crawford for melo. you can deny it because the offer will not be made so technically you cant be proven wrong, and its easy to hide behind that, but they would do it. but im glad you think melo has a chance to be as good as JC. :laugh:


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>NugzFan</b>!
> 
> 
> arenas was in the bag...if we wanted to pay. kiki didnt want to.
> ...


you believe arenas was in the bag if you want, but arenas got 6 years 60 mil.to millers' 6 yr.55 mil.

most people will agree arenas is a better player and that the margin of difference in their value as players was bigger the difference in their contracts 

if $ was even between the nuggets clips and wizards why would arenas choose the nuggets ...both the clippers and wizards play in places more desirable than denver and the wizards and clips have better talent 

its obvious the nuggets lost out and choose to overpay miller instead

you know it, i could pull out a # of thread of how you yourself were claiming arenas was the catch of the off-season and that the nuggets were a lock for him ,even though it was painfully obvious that if the nuggets wanted him they were going to have to seriously overpay and even then it was sketchy

you showed no such love for miller and claim he will fit the nuggets system better ....how so ? miller is a drive and kick pg and only lenard and barry has proven the ability to hit a J consistently on your whole team (miller included) and they play the same position

pass 1st pgs are only as good as the people they pass to and the nuggets are a little short on offensive firepower


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## jollyoscars (Jul 5, 2003)

i don't wanna trade jc :yes:


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## NugzFan (Jul 26, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>happygrinch</b>!
> 
> 
> you believe arenas was in the bag if you want, but arenas got 6 years 60 mil.to millers' 6 yr.55 mil.


i dont believe. i know. if we offered him that 60 mill or whatever he got from day one, he was ours. period.



> most people will agree arenas is a better player and that the margin of difference in their value as players was bigger the difference in their contracts


ok? congrats to washington? yippee for them? party at 8? ill bring beer. 



> if $ was even between the nuggets clips and wizards why would arenas choose the nuggets ...both the clippers and wizards play in places more desirable than denver and the wizards and clips have better talent


define more desirable places? in terms of city? in terms of team? we have just as nice of city as washington (better even), FAR BETTER facilities than either and a better future. more talent? lol. 



> its obvious the nuggets lost out and choose to overpay miller instead


100% wrong. no wait...150% wrong. 



> you know it, i could pull out a # of thread of how you yourself were claiming arenas was the catch of the off-season and that the nuggets were a lock for him ,even though it was painfully obvious that if the nuggets wanted him they were going to have to seriously overpay and even then it was sketchy


thats two issues.

1) who did I want this summer

vs

2) who did kiki want

im talking #2. you are talking #1. if you want to discuss #1, i will...but dont flip flop. 

but kiki wanted miller over arenas. if he wanted arenas, he could have had him. we had the cap space and cash. he said no thanks and signed miller instead...learn your facts please. 



> you showed no such love for miller and claim he will fit the nuggets system better ....how so ? miller is a drive and kick pg and only lenard and barry has proven the ability to hit a J consistently on your whole team (miller included) and they play the same position


arenas is a good player...miller is a good player. i got no probs with either but miller will improve our team. but so will other players. miller will at least get the ball in the hands of guys who should have the ball.



> pass 1st pgs are only as good as the people they pass to and the nuggets are a little short on offensive firepower


we were last year. we will be better this year and even better the year after.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

i dont think kiki had a chioce in the matter 

arenas wouldn't have gone point blank if there was a decent offer from a better team or at least a good offer from a mediocre one ,though you hate to admit it the nuggets are the worst place to go for a free agent they are as bad as cleve. but cleve. has lebron who is universally seen as a superstar in the making

he chose to go after some one he could get and got him in miller


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## Showtyme (Jun 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>HEATLUNATIC</b>!
> 
> 
> Wade isnt a true PG and we arent tryn to turn him into one!With Odom and CB4 we have 2 point forwards that have good court vision and handle!In other words Wade will be playing PG,but he wont be handling the PG duties!He will guard the opposing teams PG on D,but Odom and Caron will bring the ball up the court and set up the O!
> ...


Errrm.

If Wade is playing PG but not handling PG duties, that makes him not at all like Jamal Crawford. If you read HIS post, he never claimed that you said Wade is a true PG. He was simply differentiating between Craw and Wade in that Craw is a real PG, whereas with Wade it remains to be seen.

In addition, Hughes' success in GS wasn't because they let him play the position of true "combo guard"... it's because they let him to whatever the heck he wanted to.

To me, Larry Hughes is simply a true shooting guard. He's not a combo guard. He's a shooting guard with a career average of 3.2 apg. He's a good defensive force with his athleticism, and a good rebounder considering he's almost undersized as a SG.

Both Wade and Crawford are almost none of those things.

Anyway. The only statement we analyze here is the one that you made:

First...



> Why would we trade for Crawford when *we have Wade who is damn near the same player*,but with way more potential?!?!


By damn near the same player, you meant...



> when I said Wade and Crawford are damn near the same player I meant that they are both combo guards!


You ranted on about how Wade is taking lessons from a 3-pt specialist in Tim Hardaway (career 35.5% arc, never had a season close to 40... nothing spectacular), how I was "giving you crap about And-1 handles" (it's just a nice skill set, not a dominant feature in the league, obviously), and how Wade is COMPLETELY dissimilar to Crawford in his defensive ability, which while unproven, may end up being very true and the very reason why the Bulls wanted him so much.



> The bottom line is that as a rook Wade will be just as good if not better then Crawford,and hes got a higher ceiling!


Being "as good if not better" and being "damn near the same player" are extremely different statements.

Chicken con broccoli at the Olive Garden is as good if not better than linguine alla marinara, but they certainly aren't "damn near the same dish".

The analogy is, in fact, appropriate.


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

Sometimes I wonder if HeatLunatic and NugzFan are the same person...


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## Joker (Aug 7, 2002)

trust me bulls will never get butler in any trade.....

true that the trade fo butler and jones for crawford chandler anf robinson fit our lineup nicely, but we are NOT trading CB. maybe wade and EJ, ok, but caron is our 1st rebuilding block.


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## NugzFan (Jul 26, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>happygrinch</b>!
> i dont think kiki had a chioce in the matter


lol. hes only the GM! (dude, why do you bother making such ridiculous statements...seriously?)



> arenas wouldn't have gone point blank if there was a decent offer from a better team or at least a good offer from a mediocre one ,though you hate to admit it the nuggets are the worst place to go for a free agent they are as bad as cleve. but cleve. has lebron who is universally seen as a superstar in the making


obviously the only real offer that came up was from washington. and that was long after the FA market started. if we gave him that offer from day 1, hes in denver. even he would admit that.

denver the worst place to go as a FA? dude...you lose again! you keep making the most inaccurate statements. youve lost all credibility. seriously. you are killing yourself. i dont even have to try!


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## NugzFan (Jul 26, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>C.C.C.P</b>!
> Sometimes I wonder if HeatLunatic and NugzFan are the same person...


oh man i hope not! that would suck. unless HL is really cool and good looking then i hope im him but i dont think he is. so i hope im not him.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

*i'll make it really simple nugz fan*

you claimed that kiki was interested in arenas , 

you claimed it for months and on the chi. board alone probably in 50 posts

i along with many people pointed out that inside of an espn article kiki has expressed that he would not pursue arenas 

and even if he were gilbert wouldn't care because he is a prime FA he really did have his pick of the litter so why would he go to the team with the worst record in the nba , a team that wont be even an 8th seed for at least 2-3 years thats in the mountains where it is cold thats not exactly a diverse city in regards to its population and isn't known for its nightlife.(there are your reasons he would choose other cities in case you were wondering) 

to which you said what does ric bucher know about the nba compared to what you do because supposedly kiki was very interested in gilbert according to whom ....you never gave an answer even though you were asked.

gilbert has said this offseason he only wanted to go to the clips and the wizards he never mentioned the nuggets , why ? because he never cared about them .

just like brand and odom and olawakandi were supposedly so interested to go to denver 

none of them just like gilbert expressed this desire once the FA period started because they accomplished what they wanted to raise their price up for a better team to bid


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## NugzFan (Jul 26, 2002)

*Re: i'll make it really simple nugz fan*



> Originally posted by <b>happygrinch</b>!
> you claimed that kiki was interested in arenas ,
> 
> you claimed it for months and on the chi. board alone probably in 50 posts


and unfortunately i was wrong. he fooled me like he fooled most others.



> i along with many people pointed out that inside of an espn article kiki has expressed that he would not pursue arenas


oooh.



> and even if he were gilbert wouldn't care because he is a prime FA he really did have his pick of the litter so why would he go to the team with the worst record in the nba , a team that wont be even an 8th seed for at least 2-3 years thats in the mountains where it is cold thats not exactly a diverse city in regards to its population and isn't known for its nightlife.(there are your reasons he would choose other cities in case you were wondering)


he would have if we made him a decent offer. your description of our team is pathetic and lacks merit. i will refer to that as "blah blah blah". (consider that a complement)



> to which you said what does ric bucher know about the nba compared to what you do because supposedly kiki was very interested in gilbert according to whom ....you never gave an answer even though you were asked.


if i didnt answer its because i didnt see the question. ive never hid or ignored a question. (look at how many replies ive made)



> gilbert has said this offseason he only wanted to go to the clips and the wizards he never mentioned the nuggets , why ? because he never cared about them .


wrong. sooo sooo wrong. i give you 4 laughs for that: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: 



> just like brand and odom and olawakandi were supposedly so interested to go to denver


they were. its a fact. you cannot distinguish between interest and signing. too bad. its really killing you right now.



> none of them just like gilbert expressed this desire once the FA period started because they accomplished what they wanted to raise their price up for a better team to bid


wrong, wrong, wrong. 

you are 100% undeniably wrong on soo many points. so sad 

you have my pity. :heart: 

try harder next time. thanks.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

*Re: Re: i'll make it really simple nugz fan*



> Originally posted by <b>NugzFan</b>!
> 
> 
> and unfortunately i was wrong. he fooled me like he fooled most others.
> ...


I think he is absolutely right! We all know who is wrong here and thats the guy that said unequivocally that Denver would be signing Gilbert Arenas. So any attempt to make OTHERS look wrong to try to make yourself look LESS wrong is the thing that is pitiable and sad.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ace20004u</b>!
> Anyways, this would be a tough tough trade to think about doing. I think Butler and Anthony will both be pretty good...and of course Crawford will be pretty decent himself. Still, I think I would hold onto Crawford


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

I wouldn't trade Crawford for TWO Caron Butlers. Carmelo, sure -- but there's not too many guys that wouldn't be traded in order to get him.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Caron Butler is damaged goods.

Melo. Is obviously the truth. I can't wait till tomorrow night. I will be very interested to see how Kirk meshes with Lebron and Melo on the floor. I think he's gonna suprise people. He doesn't get to fast break a lot in Chicago, but I thought that was his forte at Kansas. So he should dominate. And his defense is going to lead to a lot of Lebron steals and highlight real dunks.

Just one of the reasons that the Rooks are going to win by 35.

I just wish Hinrich making it didn't come at the expense of TJ Ford who I also think was deserving. They could have played Hinrich and Ford together in the backcourt with Melo and James in the front court with Bosh and just run all day. The passing on that unit...mythical.


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## airety (Oct 29, 2002)

If Kirk is playing real defense, he won't be out there long. This is an exhibition match, remember, defense is unnecessary 

Caron... he was going to be the next Paul Pierce. But he's just a mess health wise... hopefully over the offseason things will improve and he'll come back really strong next year. 

It's sad cause he's a player I always wanted us to get, but you can't trade for him in the condition he's in now. He's lost everything to these injuries for this season.


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## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

I agree Ford should have made it. As it is though A Hinrich/Wade/Lebron/Melo/Bosh lineup will absolutely reek havoc.


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