# Layden Out in New York



## Stevie B (May 15, 2003)

Isiah Thomas is his replacement. I'm not sure if he can do the job but it's good to see Layden gone.

It will be 2 or 3 years before he can do very much.


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## RunTMC (May 11, 2003)

Thomas is more or less handcuffed for the next 4 years, until the majority of the salaries on the books finally come off. Until then, what you see right now is pretty much what you're gonna get.


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## bl611 (May 7, 2003)

Its about time!!!!


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## Devestata (May 29, 2002)

Here's the link--

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=1692143


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## bl611 (May 7, 2003)

Isiah welcome to purgatory:devil:


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## rebelsun (Nov 25, 2003)

I don't know if there was a whole lot that Layden could do. I think they are still paying LJ. Giving Houston $100 million was the most overpaid contract ever. He is a shooter, you don't give a shooter $100 million. I think he made good moves in his time there. I think Charley Ward is not a starting PG in this league, and probably never was. He made the steal of the draft in Lampe. Sweetney is not seeing playing time, only because they already have 17 PF on that team. Layden drafted Vujanic in the 2nd round and he might already be the best PG on the Knicks. He has succeeded in his job, but the Knicks were an absolute nightmare (at least financially) when he got there. He put together a team that will help NY win a lot of games down the road.

I like Isaiah as a motivator, and I'm sure that will be his job. I don't like him as an executive though. Joe Dumars is showing his talent as a GM, and I think NY hopes Thomas will duplicate. Now that McDyess is playing well (how long can he hold up this time), they want to win now, and I think this hiring changes the entire outlook of this team, saying forget the future right now, let's win today. I suppose that is necessary in NYC, but it is not always the correct mindset for the well-being of the franchise.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

I'm not even a knick fan, and yet this makes me happy. This is good for the game of basketball. And Thomas isn't too bad a GM. He did draft Vince and T-Mac, did he not. And he did trade Damon Stoudamire...or was that all his successor.


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## reHEATed (Jun 29, 2003)

im not sure about isiah though..anyway, bad as a heat fan to see layden gone


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## Big John (Sep 11, 2002)

IMHO Layden is (was?) the worst GM in the league and the Knicks have found the worst possible replacement. Chris Wallace (among others) would have been a better choice than Thomas.


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## rebelsun (Nov 25, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Big John</b>!
> IMHO Layden is (was?) the worst GM in the league and the Knicks have found the worst possible replacement. Chris Wallace (among others) would have been a better choice than Thomas.


You gotta remember what he had to work with in NY. Their cap situation was a nightmare.


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## bl611 (May 7, 2003)

DO NOT SHOW SYMPATHY FOR SCOTT LAYDEN!!! Moderator: that is offense language I demand that the "layden Loving" post be edited now!!!

Lampe was a good move? Anyone could have picked him, as for Sweetney here's an idea if you already have 14 PF don't draft a 15th!
Name one good move he made as the Knicks GM? Besides for giving Denver their starting line up?
Now if you excuse me I'm off to Penn station to throw rocks at Scott while he cleans out his office......


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## rebelsun (Nov 25, 2003)

I don't think he is the best, but definitely not the worst. The reason teams did not take Lampe in the 1st round is because of his contract situation back home, and teams don't want to use guaranteed money on players that may never make it to the US. He gave NY fans the chance to win now, w/ McDyess, but he also made great moves for the future. You will be thanking Layden when Vujanic puts on a Knick jersey. 

If you know value in the NBA, you know that one great big man is worth 2 great little men. Sweetney may be Elton Brand, he may be Robert Traylor, but he is young, big, and tough. He is valuable to trade if they don't play him. McDyess is gone at the end of the season, and Sweetney should get a chance to show his stuff next year.


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## MJG (Jun 29, 2003)

Layden was awful, any Knick fan will tell you that. While I think that Thomas as the replacement is a pretty weak choice, people shouldn't judge him too quickly; it'll be years before the terrible contracts start dwindling down.


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## HEATLUNATIC (May 27, 2002)

Firing Layden was a BIG step in the right direction,but the Knicks still have a long way to go!!!

Look at all the BS Zeke has to deal wit!!!

Houston
Anderson
Eisley
Spoon
KVH


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## Knicksbiggestfan (Apr 29, 2003)

Somebody pinch me. Is this really happening.


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## Burn (Feb 2, 2003)

Meh, ask Raptor fans how well Isiah works in an executive position. Or CBA fans.

This just ensures that NY will continue to be horrible.


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## Fordy74 (May 22, 2002)

Isiah has a better eye for talent than Laydumb. all us Knicks fans got an early Christmas present today!!!


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## MLKG (Aug 25, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>RebelSun</b>!
> If you know value in the NBA, you know that one great big man is worth 2 great little men. Sweetney may be Elton Brand, he may be Robert Traylor, but he is young, big, and tough. He is valuable to trade if they don't play him. McDyess is gone at the end of the season, and Sweetney should get a chance to show his stuff next year.


That would be true if Sweetney were even a big man. But the dudes 6'8" and fat. The very best the Knicks can hope for out of him is the next Corliss Williamson.... and that's only if he can drop like 40 pounds and play small forward. If the Knicks wanted a big man they should have taken Collison.

As for Isiah, I'm just wondering how long it will be until he fires Don Cheaney and makes himself the coach.


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## Big John (Sep 11, 2002)

> Sweetney may be Elton Brand, he may be Robert Traylor, but he is young, big, and tough. He is valuable to trade if they don't play him. McDyess is gone at the end of the season, and Sweetney should get a chance to show his stuff next year.


Sweetney is absolutely hopeless. Brandon Hunter, drafted by the Celtics at #56, is a better player in every aspect of the game.
Total waste of a #9 pick. Slavko Vranes was a total waste also.


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## Knicksbiggestfan (Apr 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Big John</b>!
> 
> 
> Sweetney is absolutely hopeless. Brahdon Hunter, drafted by the Celtics at #56, is a better player in every aspect of the game.
> Total waste of a #9 pick. Slavko Vranes was a total waste also.


You make a good point, after seeing Sweetney play in so many games I can now agree with you that he is totally hopeless.


Anyway, I hope Isiah doesn't do to Lampe what he did to Croshere, and ignore him.


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## Devestata (May 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Knicksbiggestfan</b>!
> 
> 
> You make a good point, after seeing Sweetney play in so many games I can now agree with you that he is totally hopeless.
> ...


I would hope for the same. IMO, he'll wind up being better than Croshere. Lampe has a good deal of potential to be good and hopefully he'll get time to grow into a good player, like you mentioned. What are your thoughts on him?


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## Springsteen (Jan 24, 2003)

Hiring Isiah is a lateral move at best. He's a horrible business man (see CBA), has accomplished nothing as a GM (see the Raps), and has proven to be a below average coach (see the underachieving Pacers) and a rival of Walton as a commentator. I was happy when I heard Layden was fired. But Isiah...he was a good player, but that's it at best.


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## Knicks Junkie (Aug 21, 2003)

This is unbelieveable! When I first saw the headline that Scott Layden was fired, I felt like the king of the world. Any Knick fan will tell you that Scott Layden does not deserve to run a Quick Stop, let alone an NBA franchise. Before this year, the only useful players he has drafted are Frank Williams and Milos Vujanic, and they are both relatively unproven. I was happy with the draft he had this year, but they are all totally unproven. Other futile things he did as general manager include:

---Giving Allan Houston $100 million dollars. Allan Houston is my favorite player, but $100 million for him is ridiculous. The next best offer was Detroit at $50 million. That single contract set our franchise back a long time.

---Trading for Howard Eisley and Shandon Anderson. Yet some more overpaid role players. In coming to the Knicks, Anderson got a six-year contract valued at approximately $42 million. In Howard Eisley, we got another bad contract and another point guard, to go along with Mark Jackson and Charlie Ward.

---Giving Clarence Weatherspoon the midlevel exception. Another mediocre, undersized power forward. 'Nuff said.

I am not even including the Mcdyess and Van Horn trade, which are still open to question. In conclusion, I hope Scott Layden never works in the NBA ever again.


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## Jockrider (Jun 25, 2003)

I am glad for the Knicks for 2 reasons. First for taking Layden off the Jazz hands because they would have never fired him. Second nevermind their is no second. Layden has always been brutal at running a team.


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## Knicksbiggestfan (Apr 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Devestata</b>!
> 
> 
> I would hope for the same. IMO, he'll wind up being better than Croshere. Lampe has a good deal of potential to be good and hopefully he'll get time to grow into a good player, like you mentioned. What are your thoughts on him?


I too think Lampe will be better than Croshere. What prompted my concern was that in seeing Isiah in both toronto and Indiana I noticed he tended to fixate on certain players and ignore the rest of the roster. 

I don't know what prompted him to do this, I have my sucpicions but I am too elated to bring any negativity into this thread.

I think Lampe has a lot of talent. He is in my mind far to young to put a label on who he will be and what he is. What I do know is that without the right coaching, training and if he is given no playing time whatsoever, he will never come close to his potential.


While in toronto does anyone have a record of Thomas track record in trades and drafts? I'd like to analyze them.


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## Knicksbiggestfan (Apr 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Jockrider</b>!
> I am glad for the Knicks for 2 reasons. First for taking Layden off the Jazz hands because they would have never fired him. Second nevermind their is no second. Layden has always been brutal at running a team.



Quite a few of us have noted how much better the jazz got in both their drafts and the way your organization was run after he left. Even though I'll never understand how he was able to pick Kirilenko.


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## PetroToZoran (Jul 2, 2003)

The Knicks fired the 2nd worst GM for the worst GM. Great move:greatjob:


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## Jockrider (Jun 25, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Knicksbiggestfan</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> Quite a few of us have noted how much better the jazz got in both their drafts and the way your organization was run after he left. Even though I'll never understand how he was able to pick Kirilenko.


Get enough tries and you are bound to hit something.


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## NYKBaller (Oct 29, 2003)

I. Thomas's drafts have been exceptional, can't wait till june...


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## jbs (May 4, 2003)

Isiah made some good moves as the GM of the Raptors, f.ex. D. Stoudamire (7th), Camby (2nd), McGrady (8th?)). If he stays away from coaching he should be o.k.


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## rebelsun (Nov 25, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>NYKBaller</b>!
> I. Thomas's drafts have been exceptional, can't wait till june...


This is the guy that took Fred Jones in the 1st half of the 1st round. That was almost as bad as Jordan taking Juan Dixon a few spots later.


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## NYKBaller (Oct 29, 2003)

But he also did D. Stoudamire (7th), Camby (2nd), McGrady (9th).

Forgot about those guys, huh?


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Knicksbiggestfan</b>!
> Somebody pinch me. Is this really happening.


Expect Sweetney to start playing more and Lampe to come off the IL


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## Burn (Feb 2, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>NYKBaller</b>!
> But he also did D. Stoudamire (7th), Camby (2nd), McGrady (9th).
> 
> Forgot about those guys, huh?


Taking Camby at #2 shouldn't be considered a good move.

3. Vancouver Shareef Abdur-Rahim
4. Milwaukee Stephon Marbury
5. Minnesota Ray Allen
6. Boston Antoine Walker
13. Charlotte Kobe Bryant 
14. Sacramento Predrag Stojakovic 
15. Phoenix Steve Nash
17. Portland Jermaine O'Neal
20. Cleveland Zydrunas Ilgauskas

I'll give you Stoudamire because he won ROY and looked good for a while but he wasn't exactly a steal either.


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## MLKG (Aug 25, 2003)

You can't fault him for taking Camby, a lot of people (including me) thought he should go over Iverson. Some guys turn out to be busts or relative busts, but that doesn't always mean they are bad picks. I don't think there was a team in the league that wouldn't have taken Camby with the second pick.


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## Knicksbiggestfan (Apr 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Mike luvs KG</b>!
> You can't fault him for taking Camby, a lot of people (including me) thought he should go over Iverson. Some guys turn out to be busts or relative busts, but that doesn't always mean they are bad picks. I don't think there was a team in the league that wouldn't have taken Camby with the second pick.



No one had any clue camby would be so injury prone. Another case of Joe Smith Syndrome.


I don't know why they took him over SAR though.


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## Knicksbiggestfan (Apr 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BEEZ</b>!
> 
> 
> Expect Sweetney to start playing more and Lampe to come off the IL



****Does a Happy Dance**********



Finally we can light the Lampe, and see what the deal is with this Sweetney kid.


Anyone wanna finish the list JBS started of Thomas's moves as GM.

So far I don't blame him for the Camby thing.

Regarding Fred Jones, well, since he refused to play Croshere, he needed a 2 to fill the void ( I know Cros wasn't a 2) I guess he could have gotten Jiri or ......


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## NYKBaller (Oct 29, 2003)

> As the top exec for the Toronto expansion team from 1994-97, Thomas had hits and misses in the draft. While he is responsible for drafting Tracy McGrady, he also passed up future All-Stars in Ray Allen, Stephon Marbury and Antoine Walker by taking Marcus Camby with the second overall pick in 1996.
> 
> "You can't kill Isiah for taking Camby," a GM said. "Camby was supposed to be a lot better player than he turned out to be. Nobody thought he'd be this brittle."


Link


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## Big John (Sep 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BEEZ</b>!
> 
> 
> Expect Sweetney to start playing more and Lampe to come off the IL


Well if Sweetney starts playing more don't expect the Knicks to start winning more.

The nice thing about the Knicks is that there will always be two people to laugh at: Dolan and whichever guy he hires.


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## Bad Bartons (Aug 23, 2002)

*Isiah is in trouble*

Isiah Thomas is not a good front office kind of guy. 

He was a miserable failure in running the CBA.

He was a success in coaching the Pacers but he walked into a great situation with a team that Bird built for him. Even with them he failed to beat the Celtics with a much more talented team of players.

Isiah is a basketball player. A winner. A tough competittor. Why should this translate into a successful management career? Thomas has charisma but charisma does not go very far in managing a basketball team.

He is walking into a bad situation and setting himself up for failure. The NY fans and media are brutal. Thomas better grow some thicker skin because he will need it.


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## Big John (Sep 11, 2002)

What's really hilarious is that Thomas is going tp replace Cheney, who is a pretty good coach, with himself. Then the Knicks will really be bad. But Isaiah will blame it all on the bad roster he inherited fro Layden. That will get him through the first two years of his contract and Dolan, who never watches the team anyway, will be none the wiser.


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## walkon4 (Mar 28, 2003)

*hey*

I think it is too early to tell how Isiah will fit in New York. I mean really, give the man a chance.

Layden was downright horrible. NY Hates Layden. He brought the team down. I think the Knicks lack talent in some ways, but I think it just comes down to desire.


I dont know about you guys, but being from NJ, and being in NYC often I dont get that hardcore Knick feeling of the mid 90s. I love to have a strong Knick team, because the city needs that. Its horrible watching a team representing such a great city, and playing so bad and without desire.

Hopefully this will all change!


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## Burn (Feb 2, 2003)

Whether or not Camby looked like he might be a superstar isn't relevant. The fact is that taking him at #2 was not a good move by any stretch, and its being mentioned in this thread as evidence that Isiah did good things as an exec.


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## Big John (Sep 11, 2002)

I would have taken Camby too, but I would not have attempted to turn him into a small forward. I have no idea who made that decision.


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