# Cavs vs. Celtics (2/9/04)



## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

<center>*Boston(23-29) at Cleveland (19-32)*
4:00 pm PT, 7:00 pm ET 
Live on TNT








vs.







</center>

Preview

The Cavaliers have lost 3 games in a row, 2 of which the Cavaliers had a chance to win and the last los to Washington which was a route. Cleveland cannot continue to let games slip away, especially because they are behind in the playoff race and that the race is going to tighten in a hurry. For superstitious Cavaliers fans, beware knowing this game will be on national television, hence the curse is in effect. Boston beat Philadelphia in a blow out and is trying to end their recent skid. I want the Cavs to come out angry, ready to punish and beat up on Boston. Not that is matters but Ricky Davis (according to Insidehoops) talked more trash since leaving Cleveland. While this game is not particularly personal because everybody has moved on, hopefully Cleveland has an extra step of urgency and motivation out there tonight.

<center>

*Major storyline*

*The Truth* vs. *The King* 

*Paul*: Coming off a monster game, Pierce looks to drop another monster game on the Cavaliers this season*!* 

*LeBron*: Known to step up to challenges with the league’s elite, James needs to bring his A game*!*

Projected starters:






































Key Reserves:






















</center>


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## tpb2 (Oct 23, 2003)

If I were in Cleveland, I would buy an endzone seat and bring a sign:

"Ricky, your hoop's at the OTHER end"


instant sportscenter.


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## Mongolmike (Jun 11, 2002)

bad thing is, this is on TNT. For some reason, we just have not played well (particularily LeBron) on National TV. And I think Boston is 3-0 vs us this year.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

These nationally televised games have been killing the Cavs.

It's time for Lebron to have a huge game in the national spotlight.

But I have a sneaking suspicion that Paul Pierce is going to be looking to validate his all-star selection out of Lebron.

Hopefully Lebron is thinking the same thing...but I somehow doubt it.

Cavs got blown out by the Celtics last time they played. That's motovation enough I would think?


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## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

End of 1st
_Cavs_ - 14
Celtics - 24

The pace of the game is going to slow down but for a second, it reached insane speeds. 

Did anybody see that windmill LeBron did on the break? He did it off a 1-footed jump. Most people do windmill dunks from a 2-footed jump. Vince Carter did a few windmills off 1 leg and that was crazy. I'm sure there won't be much talk about that dunk James just did but I'll remember it.


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## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

*Halftime*

_Cavs_ - 53

James: 13 points, 2 rebounds, 2 assists
Ilgauskas: 10 points, 7 rebounds

Celtics - 48

Pierce: 23 points, 4 rebounds, 3 assists
Blount: 10 points, 1 rebound

----

Paul Pierce is a one-man wrecking crew out there tonight. But I like what LeBron James said in the interview. He said the Cavaliers virtually cut off the rest of Pierce's teammates, thus he had no real help out there. The goal for Cleveland is to contain the other temmates, making Pierce to have expend insane amounts of energy to beat the entire Cavaliers team all by himself.

I was puzzled when Wagner, who only played for 6 minutes, yet hit 3 out of 4 shots, was taken out of the game. Those of us who watch Juanny know he is a streak shooter. If he's getting hot, don't take him out of the game. After all, he hit two 3-pointers in a row.

As I expected, the pace of the game has slowed down. Let's hope the Cavaliers stay strong in the second half.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

I still don't understand Wagner's minutes.


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## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

I don't understand it either. He had 10 points last game versus Washington in only 13 minutes. But at this rate, Dajuan will be lucky to see 10 minutes tonight, as Silas kept him out the entire 3rd quarter except the last 44 seconds.

I saw LeBron walk to the locker room at the end of the 3rd. Let's hope he's okay and able to return.

End of 3rd

_Cavs_ - 78
Celtics - 76


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## rynobot (Oct 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>remy23</b>!
> 
> 
> I saw LeBron walk to the locker room at the end of the 3rd. Let's hope he's okay and able to return.


He probably had to go potty.


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## shazha (Nov 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>futuristxen</b>!
> I still don't understand Wagner's minutes.


me neither man, come on its bloody jeff mcinnis. Lebron belongs at point. I swear to god, even though im a big lebron fan, but right now silas isnt utilizing him.

Whats worse is its getting in the way of our BEST scorer, wagner. Its hurting our development. Mcinnis is not a future starter for this team, nor is he in our long term plans. If anything as a scoring punch off the bench.

Silas is really starting to piss me off ey. But its not his fault, its lebrons, he shud just suck it in stop trying to be like mike (with his scoring obbsession) and play his strengths and the reason he was drafted no.1. 

Wager is our future, if it means trading lebron for someone like kidd, then do it. eek: cant belive i just said that) But thats the extent of my fustration. But im not giving up yet, and i'd hate to see lebron on another team. But one way or another, wags need to play, he needs to be our starting 2 guard, or get minutes, especially when hes got the hot hand.


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## shazha (Nov 20, 2002)

and if we wanted a player like mcinnis, why did we get rid of smush parker? 

and what a scorer mcinnis is shooting at 36.8% and 30.8% from 3 point land.  

i dont care about his 6 dimes, thats not his game. Why is mcinnis trying to be a distributor and lebron a scorer. IT should be the other way around. IF i had my way, i'd give dajuan a solid 20 minutes a game. maybe even more. But i'd bring him along slowly, not this slowly though silas!!!

pg-bron
sg-wags
sf-brown/williams
pf-boozer
c-big z

thats the starting line i would use. ALSO i think that the cavs should do anything to try get tony kukoc. He would fit in great with this team, maybe playing 3 and 4 off the bench. Teaching kapono and brown some things.


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## shazha (Nov 20, 2002)

i tell ya one thing, i SURE as hell dont miss ricky D's 4th quarter bad shots and turnovers!! hahahahah merry x-mas boston.


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## SKiP (Jan 28, 2004)

I can't believe Paul Pierce missed his backwards halfcourt shot.


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## SKiP (Jan 28, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>shazha</b>!
> Wager is our future, if it means trading lebron for someone like kidd, then do it. eek: cant belive i just said that) But thats the extent of my fustration. But im not giving up yet, and i'd hate to see lebron on another team. But one way or another, wags need to play, he needs to be our starting 2 guard, or get minutes, especially when hes got the hot hand.


I don't think you want JKidd... He'll only turn your team around 360 degrees.


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## SKiP (Jan 28, 2004)

I want the Cavs to win this game... The Heat will move closer to the playoffs with Boston losing. That playoff spot is wide open, Boston, Miami, Philadelphia, Cleveland, Washington and maybe Atlanta!


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## Mongolmike (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>shazha</b>!
> 
> 
> Wager is our future, if it means trading lebron for someone like kidd, then do it.



I really don't agree with you at all. Since Wags first season, I just have not seen the potential for him to be anything more than an important piece. He is a small SG, with decent but not great quicks. He has solid range on his jumper. He does not draw a lot of fouls because he'll do his little pull-up jumper. He won't ever average more than 4 assists a game, since he doesn't pass, and he won't average more than 2-3 rbs a game, since he is too small. He is easy to defend, that has been shown last year, with no change this year.

I'm not even gonna go into LeBron's potential.... but if you think Wagner is more of a cornerstone, building block than James...????? I think you gotta step away from Wagner's 100 pt HS game tape and look at the reality of his NBA situation. Wagner could be a valuable piece for this team... mostly coming off the bench for instant offense. I hope he can provide more, but I don't see that being the case.


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## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

Boxscore

_Cavs_ - 97
James: 24 points, 6 rebounds, 3 assists
Ilgauskas: 19 points, 16 rebounds

Celtics - 87

Pierce: 32 points, 7 rebounds, 6 assists
Blount: 13 points, 5 rebounds, 2 assists

The Cavaliers regain the lead and hold on to win a victory. The announcers were right in saying Cleveland could have really stuck it to Boston in the beginning of the 2nd quarter, failed to do so and had a back and forth battle from then on.


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## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mongolmike</b>!
> He is easy to defend, that has been shown last year, with no change this year.


I love Wagner but I think shazha might have gone a little too far in his post.

I don't think Wagner is easy to defend. I know it's half way into the season but his jump shot is more consistent. If he can become more of a regular shooter than a streak shooter, defenders would have to respect his jumper more, which would open the drive up even more. But you have to ask yourself, "What can a man do in 10 minutes of action?"

Last game out he only had 13 minutes against the Wizards and produced 10 points. Tonight, in only 10 minutes Wagner had 8 points. I love the idea of instant offense, yet if Wagner continues to get such little playing time, he will probably continue jacking up shots in fear of being taken out and never getting back off the bench. With more playing time, he'd probably relax more and play a more well-rounded game.

And we agree about James. He is the team. He's the piece to build around. But let's hope Wagner can stay around too and contribute to that goal.


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## tpb2 (Oct 23, 2003)

Silas needs a way to involve LeBron's passing. We aren't even using it. Maybe this is part of the next stage. Perhaps, LeBron can play some point foward more often. 

"LeBron James is slow"
whatever, SLAM

"LeBron James is not a good dunker" - 
another SLAM
(has LeBron retired the tomahawk?)

I think LeBron should only take threes (for right now) when he can sit and look over the ball. If he stops shooting so many threes, his FG% is way up. 

I hope Mcginnis is not in the long term plan. 

Z is getting MUCH better on the defensive end, he needs to be more consistent game to game though.

I think we may need to re-sign Eric Williams


I love how Davis actully admitted the crowd got to him. Sure he's sorry, he's sorry for being on the Celtics, what a punk.


Moondawg beats Paul Pierce, it just wasnt their night.


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## TyGuy (Apr 19, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>tpb2</b>!
> Silas needs a way to involve LeBron's passing. We aren't even using it. Maybe this is part of the next stage. Perhaps, LeBron can play some point foward more often.
> 
> "LeBron James is slow"
> ...


Slam was dissing bron after he wrote for them for about a year in the monthly journal? They also use to praisehim, man they are looking stupid.


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## tpb2 (Oct 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>TyGuy</b>!
> Slam was dissing bron after he wrote for them for about a year in the monthly journal? They also use to praisehim, man they are looking stupid.


the quotes were some people I was arguing with

SLAM meant his slam dunks on the break tonight. One he blew by the entire team out of a crowd and the other was a one-footed windmil


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

How about Lebron's dunks tonight...wowza.

Hope that calf muscle isn't going to keep him out of the rookie game on friday. That would be a major letdown.

But at the same time. I hope he doesn't make it worse by playing in that game.

I'm torn.


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## tpb2 (Oct 23, 2003)

LeBron needs to learn to consistently dunk on people (like he did vs. Odom, Ostertag, Dunleavy with the left!). But I dont blame him now for all the crappy charges he gets called for. 

LeBron can really push people around in the post. However, he needs to learn some more moves.


I think that saying that LeBron's strength will limit his ceiling is bad logic. I see so many times where more experience could help him much more. Plus, LeBron doesnt consistently use his strength to gain contact. Does anyone else see this? Then why would people argue that he's close to his limit?


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## tpb2 (Oct 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>shazha</b>!
> Wager is our future, if it means trading lebron for someone like kidd, then do it. eek: cant belive i just said that) But thats the extent of my fustration. But im not giving up yet, and i'd hate to see lebron on another team. But one way or another, wags need to play, he needs to be our starting 2 guard, or get minutes, especially when hes got the hot hand.


Trade LeBron?

Wagner is our future?

How about we trade Wagner/Z/Ollie for JWill/Gasol?


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

case in point. First play of the game Lebron was above the rim and should have dunked it, and instead hit the bank iron trying to lay it up.

He's like a good foot or two above the rim with the ball he needs to finish those plays strong. He also had a play where I thought he was going to throw down a two handed reverse dunk, but he got pushed in midair and got no whistle.

He needs experience on how to use his body(he hasn't been this strong for that long) and he needs the refs to start giving him the calls a Paul Pierce gets.


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## Mongolmike (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>remy23</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think Wagner is easy to defend. I know it's half way into the season but his jump shot is more consistent. If he can become more of a regular shooter than a streak shooter, defenders would have to respect his jumper more, which would open the drive up even more.


The difference is, you say IF he developed a more consistent jumper.... in that, I totally agree. That is why I think he isn't that tough to defend. Being short (for a 2 guard) doesn't help either, and he isn't that great at breaking down a guy outside to get space for his jumper. He can occasionally take a guy to the hole, but he only gets open looks from the outside when he is poaching.... we had Jumaine Jones who did the same thing, but better.

Now I'm not saying Jumaine is better than Wags, he's not... I just don't see DaJaun ever (yes, I say ever) being the main cog for any team.... including and especially the Cavs with LeBron. Off the bench like Vinnie Johnson - yes. Down the stretch when we need a 3 pt gunner - yes. Occasionally lighting things up one night, and getting minimum minutes the next because of defensive liabilities - yes.


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## tpb2 (Oct 23, 2003)

> (he hasn't been this strong for that long)


During his sophomore year, I went to his games, and we used to say "he needs to get some muscle". :laugh: 

LeBron has been working out at a local fitness complex that trains players to exercise in areas that will SPECIFICALLY help their game. Some people think everything just appeared. 

Watching a small freshman LeBron was so much different. He wasn't that tall, like 6'4'' or so. It is pretty weird thinking back on it. He still led the team to a state championship.


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## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mongolmike</b>!
> 
> The difference is, you say IF he developed a more consistent jumper.... in that, I totally agree. That is why I think he isn't that tough to defend. Being short (for a 2 guard) doesn't help either, and he isn't that great at breaking down a guy outside to get space for his jumper. He can occasionally take a guy to the hole, but he only gets open looks from the outside when he is poaching.... we had Jumaine Jones who did the same thing, but better.


When Wags is covered man-to-man, he does well. I've noticed people collapse on Juanny. Even Silas said in one-on-one drills, Wagner was the hardest person to guard all by yourself. His shooting percentages are already better than last years and they should continue to get better. Right now, Wags is probably like a shorter, better driving JJ. But I notice Wags is scouted heavily. They tell teams to help once he puts the ball on the floor. Teams make him go left and even put special defenses in to stop his progress. I think the league learned last year, after those strings of 20 point games, not to let him run wild.


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## tpb2 (Oct 23, 2003)

> James hinted he could still take part in the Slam Dunk contest during NBA All-Star weekend. "A lot of people want me to do it, but I don't know," he said. Could he win it? "I think so, if I got in it."


James, what are you waiting for???


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## Nevus (Jun 3, 2003)

I couldn't believe my eyes when he did that windmill... at first I thought it would be all over the news, shops would shut down for a day and the White House would have a press conference to address the unbelievable quality of that dunk.

That dunk made Vince Carter look like he's got cement shoes on.

I don't understand people who say they're glad he's not in the dunk contest. You wouldn't rather see dunks like that than Chris Andersen?


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

To say nothing of that alley oop he caught that Mcginnis just kind of halfhazardly tossed from half court. Lebron just kind of glided to it.

On another note. Has Lebron grown? He looks bigger out there. Maybe it was just the boston frontline. But I swear he looks more and more like a power forward every night. I love the way he rebounds when he does. He just rips rebounds down. And I think he could be a good shot blocker at some juncture.


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## tpb2 (Oct 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>futuristxen</b>!
> To say nothing of that alley oop he caught that Mcginnis just kind of halfhazardly tossed from half court. Lebron just kind of glided to it.
> 
> On another note. Has Lebron grown? He looks bigger out there. Maybe it was just the boston frontline. But I swear he looks more and more like a power forward every night. I love the way he rebounds when he does. He just rips rebounds down. And I think he could be a good shot blocker at some juncture.


I know what you're talking about. It's sort of an illusion. He looks much smaller in his road uniform. Im pretty sure he's still the same size.


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## shazha (Nov 20, 2002)

how come everyone missed out he part after the trade lebron bit which read "eek: i cant believe i said that. 

ofcourse we'd never trade lebron. And wags isnt better than than lebron. Lebron is a phenominal all round player everyone knows lebron game. my point??

wags will be a better scorer, if he isnt already. And nothing should get in the way of him the cavs to victories and making the other team pay. 

as ive always said, bron is the glue but wags is the guy who'll put us over the top and win games for us down the stretch. im geting tired of lebron and everyone else trying to mold him into a scorer. its a waste of brons talent.

wags can score, give him the opportunity, let lebron play to his strengths, which is, his passing and running game.


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## tpb2 (Oct 23, 2003)

Wags will never be a better scorer than LeBron. LeBron has many things he can improve on and he's already at 21ppg. He will be able to post, hit more jumpers, develop better awareness around the hoop, learn to throw it down more often in traffic, etc.

Sorry to let you down, but I think you can give this one up.


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## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

I agree with the post above. Wags will not be a better scorer than LeBron. Despite Bron Bron being unselfish and rarely pushing the issue, he scores over 20 ppg.

But that is not an insult to Wagner. If he got starting minutes, Juanny could be a 20 ppg player. Even coach Silas himself said that. Juanny could be a good #2 option but LeBron will always be the main scoring option (unless he is playing very bad on a certain night).


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## Mongolmike (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>tpb2</b>!
> Wags will never be a better scorer than LeBron. LeBron has many things he can improve on and he's already at 21ppg. He will be able to post, hit more jumpers, develop better awareness around the hoop, learn to throw it down more often in traffic, etc.
> 
> Sorry to let you down, but I think you can give this one up.


100% agree. Add to your list, he will draw more fouls since he already knows how to draw contact, AND he will make more baskets AS he is getting fouled in the act of shooting (for the traditional 3 pt play). Wagner usually pulls up before he draws contact.


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## The OUTLAW (Jun 13, 2002)

I just wish they would start calling the fouls on LeBron now. Even when he does draw contact they rarely call the foul, but they are quick to blow the whistle if they think he's charging. 

By the way, when did the rule for charging change. I remember you had to establish position and not be moving, now all you really have to do is be in the path of the player?


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## AngryPete (Jan 22, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>remy23</b>!
> I agree with the post above. Wags will not be a better scorer than LeBron. Despite Bron Bron being unselfish and rarely pushing the issue, he scores over 20 ppg.
> 
> But that is not an insult to Wagner. If he got starting minutes, Juanny could be a 20 ppg player. Even coach Silas himself said that. Juanny could be a good #2 option but LeBron will always be the main scoring option (unless he is playing very bad on a certain night).


Remember too, Wagner's really just NOW starting to come into his game. he was hurt alot of last season, and was hurt at the beginning of this season. Once he gets his shot together, he's going to juke guys out of their shoes. A starting 5 of MacInnis, Wags, James, Boozer and Z, with Battie, Williams, Newble, Diop and Ollie is going to be HUGE in the coming years, once the team gels together even more than they are now.

Wagner's got a fantastic stroke from 16+feet, and can hit just about anything from 25 feet in. It's just a question of getting himself conditioned, and staying injury free. If he can do that, he's going to be the #3 scorer on this team behind James and Boozer.


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