# Marion to Dallas



## croco

Like it or not ? We are basically getting him for free.


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## Ninjatune

Undecided at this point. Glad to see we are doing something to try and improve..... I think it will play out pretty well, but our measuring stick for success is severely skewed compared to most teams. What make this trade a success other than winning a championship? Winning another 50 games and making the playoffs doesn't cut it anymore.


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## LionOfJudah

I dig the move, he's a good player to fill several roles for us and continue to keep us competitive. Hopefully this will help lure a super star next summer.


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## Chan Ho Nam

i just remembered that fadeaway shot Dirk made on Marion in that overtime game two years ago, those Suns Mavs games were must watch games back then, good times good times


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## LionOfJudah

Who better to chase rebounds on a jumpshooting team?


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## Ninjatune

It's going to make me nauseous having to watch that poor excuse for a jump shot that Marion has though. I swear he shoots from his hip.....


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## t1no

We still need to make one more move if we want to compete with the Spurs and Lakers.


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## croco

t1no said:


> We still need to make one more move if we want to compete with the Spurs and Lakers.


According to Mike Fisher, we are going to:



> 17 We said there is at least one more big deal coming after Marion, Kidd and Gortat.
> 
> At this point, are you really going to question us?
> 
> http://www.dallasbasketball.com/fullColumn.php?id=1819


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## Ninjatune

Looks like it's done...

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4316885


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## Adam

He's no longer anything of a good defender and he can only score on broken plays and tipins. All I can say is wait and see. Not trying to torment you with a gloomy forecast, but you will be seriously disappointed in this one.


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## Ninjatune

So how is San Antonio getting RJ for 14 Million a great deal and us getting Marion for a little over 7 Million going to be a disaster? I understand that RJ is younger and better at this point, but worth twice as much? 

Everyone just wants every move Dallas makes to be a bad one. We could land DWade next summer and somehow that would be a bad move for us.....


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## croco

The '93 Heat said:


> He's no longer anything of a good defender and he can only score on broken plays and tipins. All I can say is wait and see. Not trying to torment you with a gloomy forecast, but you will be seriously disappointed in this one.


We aren't expecting an All-Star performance from him and I think he has also realized that while he was somewhat underappreciated during his time with the Suns, he depends on others creating for him moreso than other players with his reputation. His perception should have changed now that he has been with Miami when they weren't good, got traded to a team that didn't make the playoffs and found out that life as a star can be short and people won't remember you for forever. I'm sure - two years ago - he expected a much richer contract in the summer of 2009, which didn't happen and he had to settle for less.

Those are reasons why I believe motivation won't be an issue now that he had to opportunity to reflect on the past two years and realized that the clock is ticking. Thus, I think he will bring a much needed spark and versatility to the Mavs and bounce back from a rapid decline.


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## Adam

Ninjatune said:


> So how is San Antonio getting RJ for 14 Million a great deal and us getting Marion for a little over 7 Million going to be a disaster? I understand that RJ is younger and better at this point, but worth twice as much?
> 
> Everyone just wants every move Dallas makes to be a bad one. We could land DWade next summer and somehow that would be a bad move for us.....


Yeah, it's all bias. It couldn't possibly be specific criticism of the specific player in question.



croco said:


> We aren't expecting an All-Star performance from him and I think he has also realized that while he was somewhat underappreciated during his time with the Suns, he depends on others creating for him moreso than other players with his reputation. His perception should have changed now that he has been with Miami when they weren't good, got traded to a team that didn't make the playoffs and found out that life as a star can be short and people won't remember you for forever. I'm sure - two years ago - he expected a much richer contract in the summer of 2009, which didn't happen and he had to settle for less.
> 
> Those are reasons why I believe motivation won't be an issue now that he had to opportunity to reflect on the past two years and realized that the clock is ticking. Thus, I think he will bring a much needed spark and versatility to the Mavs and bounce back from a rapid decline.


You would think that, but he was in a contract year last year and he couldn't produce on a playoff team (Miami). The fact is that it's not a matter of motivation, but one of skill. He can't shoot, dribble, or pass, so he will hurt your team in more ways than he will help it. Honestly, nothing separates him from a Junkyard Dog or a Reggie Evans at this point except for his fame. The guy made 10 three pointers last year and he will camp out at the three point line because he has no post skills, and it's not like he can run off screens because he can hardly catch, let alone catch and shoot.

If Mark Cuban wants to pay him $8 million and you're getting him while already over the cap, I agree you shouldn't care. As long as it's not your money, nobody should care, but I'm not arguing that he's a cancer and he should be avoided. I'm just warning you that he will help your basketball team in no way whatsoever.


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## LionOfJudah

The '93 Heat said:


> You would think that, but he was in a contract year last year and he couldn't produce on a playoff team (Miami). The fact is that it's not a matter of motivation, but one of skill. He can't shoot, dribble, or pass, so he will hurt your team in more ways than he will help it. Honestly, nothing separates him from a Junkyard Dog or a Reggie Evans at this point except for his fame. The guy made 10 three pointers last year and he will camp out at the three point line because he has no post skills, and it's not like he can run off screens because he can hardly catch, let alone catch and shoot.
> 
> If Mark Cuban wants to pay him $8 million and you're getting him while already over the cap, I agree you shouldn't care. As long as it's not your money, nobody should care, but I'm not arguing that he's a cancer and he should be avoided. I'm just warning you that he will help your basketball team in no way whatsoever.


I've said it before, with a jumpshooting team who better to go shag balls for us and get it back to the shooters?


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## LionOfJudah

Oh, and the Heat suck. They wouldn't be a playoff team in the West. Marion will be surrounded with talent similar to his situation in PHX so his experience in MIA or Toronto isn't exactly an apples to apples comparison.


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## Adam

stevemc said:


> Oh, and the Heat suck. They wouldn't be a playoff team in the West. Marion will be surrounded with talent similar to his situation in PHX so his experience in MIA or Toronto isn't exactly an apples to apples comparison.


That's amusing, considering the East won the head to head matchup with the West and had nowhere near the number of stragglers of the West.

The team play also has no relation to his individual play. The ability to pass, shoot, and dribble is universal. Unless they play basketball in Dallas without a ball.


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## LionOfJudah

The '93 Heat said:


> That's amusing, considering the East won the head to head matchup with the West and had nowhere near the number of stragglers of the West.


That's a common misconception. The **** in the east played other **** the majority of the season. Of course the records are going to look good if you get to play the Knicks 4 times a year.


> The team play also has no relation to his individual play. The ability to pass, shoot, and dribble is universal. Unless they play basketball in Dallas without a ball.


So he was a 20/10 guy in PHX not being able to do anything basketball related. This guy must be good then or you're going overboard on your critic of Marion. 

He's not going to be asked to do much outside of the things he does well.


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## Adam

stevemc said:


> That's a common misconception. The **** in the east played other **** the majority of the season. Of course the records are going to look good if you get to play the Knicks 4 times a year.


Actually, I was talking about the head to head record of the East vs. West (which the East won).

And New York won 32 games. They were the 2nd worst team in the East. The West had 6 teams win less than 30 games. Yeah, those playoff teams weren't benefited by going up against that amount of garbage...



> So he was a 20/10 guy in PHX not being able to do anything basketball related. This guy must be good then or you're going overboard on your critic of Marion.
> 
> He's not going to be asked to do much outside of the things he does well.


This isn't 2005. Shawn Marion is 31 years old and finished.


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## t1no

Only time will tell and anything is better than Stackhouse.


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## t1no

croco said:


> According to Mike Fisher, we are going to:


:champagne:


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## LionOfJudah

The '93 Heat said:


> Actually, I was talking about the head to head record of the East vs. West (which the East won).
> 
> And New York won 32 games. They were the 2nd worst team in the East. The West had 6 teams win less than 30 games. Yeah, those playoff teams weren't benefited by going up against that amount of garbage...


Link please.



> This isn't 2005. Shawn Marion is 31 years old and finished.


I'll wait until the season starts before I start taking your word on it since you've sounded more bitter and hateful about Marion than anything.


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## Sleepepro

Very excited, I don't think Marion's done. He doesn't have to average great numbers, even if he averages 14ppg and 8 rpg it's fine. Here he's not asked to carry a scoring load like when he was in Miami, here he can just play off others. Marion will be our 4th option on offense behind Dirk, Jho, Terry respectively and that's really good for both him and the Mavs. I see him as a glue guy much like Odom don't be a main guy be that guy that can ignite a team to do better, he can also bring the team to another level defensively. The length of the team is crazy when you have Jho with a 7'2 wingspan and Marion with also a 7'2 wingspan.

Also I don't by that this team is old, the main core outside of Kidd and Dampier(who will most likely be traded next offseason and is most likely a backup now)is still around 29-31 the prime years for a player 

Finally this team isn't done this offseason, Carlisle said to "stay tuned" when he was asked if the mavs are done.


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## VeN

stevemc said:


> Link please.
> 
> 
> I'll wait until the season starts before I start taking your word on it since you've sounded more bitter and hateful about Marion than anything.


huh? i think deep down we all feel the same way but just staying optimistic. how many has beens have we brought in, only for them not to produce... I too am hoping that he can still produce, but if he ends up another bust i doubt anyone here will be surprised.


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## VeN

Sleepepro said:


> Also I don't by that this team is old, the main core outside of Kidd and Dampier(who will most likely be traded next offseason and is most likely a backup now)is still around 29-31 the prime years for a player
> 
> Finally this team isn't done this offseason, Carlisle said to "stay tuned" when he was asked if the mavs are done.


really? youve really been missing the playoffs the last few years havent you.


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## LionOfJudah

VeN said:


> huh? i think deep down we all feel the same way but just staying optimistic. how many has beens have we brought in, only for them not to produce... I too am hoping that he can still produce, but if he ends up another bust i doubt anyone here will be surprised.


I keep having to go back to the point that he's not going to be asked to produce this go around. He's going to fall into the familiar role he played in with the Suns picking up the pieces to our stars. Kind of how I feel Sheed would have been great as our starting 5, he wouldn't be asked to do much outside his comfort level where he's his best. Not a knock on these guys, I play similar ball myself. Just a glue guy. We fit well on most teams being able to defend multiple positions, run the floor and knock down open shots. Guys like us flourish with offensive superstars but struggle when asked to be the focal point of the offense.


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## Sleepepro

VeN said:


> really? youve really been missing the playoffs the last few years havent you.


if you think that the mavs are old then how bout the spurs, they are even older than the mavs yet they are still contenders. Or the Utah in the late 90's and early 2000's they were still kicking for the playoffs even though they were led by relatively old men.

05-06 went to finals (defense was great until the finals)
06-07 Lost to GS First round (best year until the playoffs big upset which should have set off alarms that something is wrong but everyone saw it as a fluke)
07-08 Lost to NO First round (reason we lost is because we had crappy team defense and no one stepped up)
08-09 Lost to Denver is 2nd Round (reason we lost athleticism and defense were still sub par)

The reason we've been losing in the playoffs is our bad team defense and our lack athleticism, age is just an excuse that people are willing to accept. We haven't had a good defensive team since Del Harris was ignored and let go. Defense is gonna win you championships most of the time, ask detroit, spurs, lakers, celtics. Offense only get you so far ask PHX, early 2000's Sac, GS


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## VeN

Sleepepro said:


> if you think that the mavs are old then how bout the spurs, they are even older than the mavs yet they are still contenders. Or the Utah in the late 90's and early 2000's they were still kicking for the playoffs even though they were led by relatively old men.


see, this is why im so sick of the comparison with the spurs. why?

Because they have RINGS to prove their team works. The mavs are JUST old. The Mavs also have a legacy of having no interior (or hardly any) defence. The Spurs are highly touted as a defensive team. Other than relative comparisons in age, the spurs and mavs are night and day teamwise. Tim Duncan gets a team to the finals and gets rings. A team with Dirk at the helm has a history of choking in the finals, first round exits and 50+ win seasons. The Spurs have real leaders and a fantastic coach, while the leader on this team is questionable and weve been rotating coaches in and out the last few years. Despite their age, the Spurs are considered real contenders, while our hometown radio station routinely calls the mavs soft, marshmellow, finesse, coward, weak and even the P word (or close to it). Stop the comparison to the Spurs because we are NOT the spurs.



Sleepepro said:


> The reason we've been losing in the playoffs is our bad team defense and our lack athleticism, age is just an excuse that people are willing to accept.


So getting older and slower is supposed to make that bad defence and lack of athleticism... better? How is stating the obvious truth an excuse. Who here honestly thinks we have a chance at getting to the WCF let alone the finals. 




Sleepepro said:


> We haven't had a good defensive team since Del Harris was ignored and let go. Defense is gonna win you championships most of the time, ask detroit, spurs, lakers, celtics. Offense only get you so far ask PHX, early 2000's Sac, GS


Yes, but do you think that any of the pickups we just signed are the answer?


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## VeN

stevemc said:


> I keep having to go back to the point that he's not going to be asked to produce this go around. He's going to fall into the familiar role he played in with the Suns picking up the pieces to our stars. Kind of how I feel Sheed would have been great as our starting 5, he wouldn't be asked to do much outside his comfort level where he's his best. Not a knock on these guys, I play similar ball myself. Just a glue guy. We fit well on most teams being able to defend multiple positions, run the floor and knock down open shots. Guys like us flourish with offensive superstars but struggle when asked to be the focal point of the offense.


god help them if we have injuries next season.


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## Sleepepro

I wasn't comparing us to the Spurs in terms of we can be just like them, I'm using them as an example of a team that doesn't let age factor in as an excuse for a loss. The Mavs need a new dedication to team defense, and these last few pieces have been just that, Marion a known defender, Gortat a solid man to man player, Ross a defensive specialist, Roddy a PG with some defensive potential. These guys show that the mavs are taking defense seriously. Denver was the better defensive team and that's how they beat us, we were a better defensive team against Spurs and that's how we beat them

Team defense, defensive transitions, and lockdown D in the last 6-8 mins of a game will propel us to contenders. This is what we need badly, our offense is great but our defense is in need of major changes


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## LionOfJudah

VeN said:


> god help them if we have injuries next season.


Injuries will always derail a teams championship hopes more often than not.

The real victory here to me is Devon George is f'in gone. I don't think I have a least favorite player in the league than Devon George.


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## VeN

stevemc said:


> Injuries will always derail a teams championship hopes more often than not.
> 
> The real victory here to me is Devon George is f'in gone. I don't think I have a least favorite player in the league than Devon George.


lol i think we can all agree that d george being gone along with stack are a success.


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## VeN

Sleepepro said:


> I wasn't comparing us to the Spurs in terms of we can be just like them, I'm using them as an example of a team that doesn't let age factor in as an excuse for a loss. The Mavs need a new dedication to team defense, and these last few pieces have been just that, Marion a known defender, Gortat a solid man to man player, Ross a defensive specialist, Roddy a PG with some defensive potential. These guys show that the mavs are taking defense seriously. Denver was the better defensive team and that's how they beat us, we were a better defensive team against Spurs and that's how we beat them
> 
> Team defense, defensive transitions, and lockdown D in the last 6-8 mins of a game will propel us to contenders. This is what we need badly, our offense is great but our defense is in need of major changes


Well all i was trying to say is that an aging defender is just that, an aging defender. Dedication to D wont = great D. How many times do we gotta be doug christie'd. Btw, the Nuggets beat us cause they are more athletic, quicker, had better defence and had better players. They were just all around a deeper team.


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## Zuca

Article on Marion (from NBA.com):
http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/art_garcia/08/14/marion.feature/index.html


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