# J.R. Smith at Rucker Park / Cold Pizza



## The MAMBA (Jan 6, 2006)

For those wondering where, and why J.R. Smith isn't playing in the Summer League... it's because he is taking part in the famed Rucker Park tournament. Where some of the best streetballers and pro's come together for the best basketball played during the summer. Apparently, the other night the new Bull had a vicious crossover and a dunk where he jumped from damn near the top of the key. I have not seen the video of it, but I heard it was played on Cold Pizza, and possibly ESPN's highlights? If anyone has a video of it, could you post it? Thanks..


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## paxman (Apr 24, 2006)

he's not playing in the summer league
because he is not a chicago bull yet.
and the best summer basketball lies wherever
jesus sefolosha happens to be


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

Yeah, I heard he's looking like a superb out there at the rucker.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

I saw this killer dunk of his on a Cold Pizza clip from ESPN.com.


SikkkkkkkkkkkkkkkKKKKKKKKKKK

Oh my.


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## The MAMBA (Jan 6, 2006)

paxman said:


> he's not playing in the summer league
> because he is not a chicago bull yet.
> and the best summer basketball lies wherever
> jesus sefolosha happens to be


No, the best summer basketball is always at the Rucker. Always.


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## The MAMBA (Jan 6, 2006)

kukoc4ever said:


> I saw this killer dunk of his on a Cold Pizza clip from ESPN.com.
> 
> 
> SikkkkkkkkkkkkkkkKKKKKKKKKKK
> ...


Can you link that bad boy?


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## The MAMBA (Jan 6, 2006)

Nevermind... saw it.. and it was SICK.


J.R. Smith: "I am your father."

Viciouslly crosses cat over, then dunks on him so hard, the kid falls to the ground. Kid has game. Hopefully, Chicago can make a star out of him.


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzCxnnaGUa4&search=jr smith

This is an absolutely AMAZING clip of J.R.'s dunking ability. From his H.S. years


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## The MAMBA (Jan 6, 2006)

Best Mix tape EVER, IMO is "Jordan - Fear". Simply astounding, and gets you mad pumped to go play and train.


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## lgtwins (May 18, 2004)

kukoc4ever said:


> I saw this killer dunk of his on a Cold Pizza clip from ESPN.com.
> 
> 
> SikkkkkkkkkkkkkkkKKKKKKKKKKK
> ...


I saw it but it wasn't that sick IMO.


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## Wynn (Jun 3, 2002)

The MAMBA said:


> For those wondering where, and why J.R. Smith isn't playing in the Summer League... it's because he is taking part in the famed Rucker Park tournament. Where some of the best streetballers and pro's come together for the best basketball played during the summer. Apparently, the other night the new Bull had a vicious crossover and a dunk where he jumped from damn near the top of the key. I have not seen the video of it, but I heard it was played on Cold Pizza, and possibly ESPN's highlights? If anyone has a video of it, could you post it? Thanks..


Excellent! Corey Benjamin part III is EXACTLY what this team needs.........

[EDIT: Put wrong Corey, post made no sense....]


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

The MAMBA said:


> No, the best summer basketball is always at the Rucker. Always.


There, and wherever the Harlem Globetrotters are playing.

I mean, those guys are the sikkkest of the sikkk.


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## The MAMBA (Jan 6, 2006)

TomBoerwinkle#1 said:


> There, and wherever the Harlem Globetrotters are playing.
> 
> I mean, those guys are the sikkkest of the sikkk.


I figured a square like you would have NO CLUE as to what I was talking about. As usual, which is pretty much par for the course with most of you middle aged white guys, who can't play actual basketball, but think you know so much about the game.


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## The MAMBA (Jan 6, 2006)

Rucker Park established legends such as Dr. J, Wilt, Jabbar, etc. So don't patronize me with "Harlem Globetrotters" and "sikkkest of the sikkk", type lines. You obviously are just ignorant to the Rucker Park tournament. Because it isn't like that at all. Yes there is flash, but does that intimidate you? Can your middle aged, over the hill, pasty white a$$ can't handle a little excitement and pizzaz? It is serious basketball, coached basketball, where players also get to show off their individual skills. This is where the stars hone their game, and become legends. Yes, this isn't a place for your John Paxson / Steve Kerr / Andres Nocioni... so that's probably why you have a problem with it. It isn't "white" enough for you, as you think the tournament is all about show boating, and you couldn't be more wrong. And notice how in the: "sikkkest of the sikkk" you spelled each sick with 3 K's. Are you trying to tell us something, Casper?

You know? For a 40 year old, you're pretty immature... Mr. TomBoerwinkle#1.


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## TripleDouble (Jul 26, 2002)

The MAMBA said:


> Rucker Park established legends such as Dr. J, Wilt, Jabbar, etc. So don't patronize me with "Harlem Globetrotters" and "sikkkest of the sikkk", type lines. You obviously are just ignorant to the Rucker Park tournament. Because it isn't like that at all. Yes there is flash, but does that intimidate you? Can your middle aged, over the hill, pasty white *** can't handle a little excitement and pizzaz? This is where the stars hone their game, and become legends. Yes, this isn't a place for your Jud Buechelors... so that's probably why you have a problem with it.
> 
> You know? For a 40 year old, you're pretty immature... Mr. TomBoerwinkle#1.


Which NBA champion has relied on playground style of play? Thanks.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

Didn't Jamal and Eddy play in it two years ago, are they playing this year?


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## LuCane (Dec 9, 2002)

> This is where the stars hone their game, and become legends


Would you be willing to educate me which current stars (maybe over the last 10-15 years) that have honed their skills there? I'm genuinely curious.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

LuCane said:


> Would you be willing to educate me which current stars (maybe over the last 10-15 years) that have honed their skills there? I'm genuinely curious.


JCraw used to play there instead of working out in Chicago.


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## Babble-On (Sep 28, 2005)

LuCane said:


> Would you be willing to educate me which current stars (maybe over the last 10-15 years) that have honed their skills there? I'm genuinely curious.


Kobe Bryant. Ron Artest. Baron Davis. Jermaine O'Neal. Vince Carter. Off the top of my head all those guys have come through there and played at some point.

The Rucker is a landmark.


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## BULLHITTER (Dec 6, 2005)

> I figured a square like you would have NO CLUE as to what I was talking about. As usual, which is pretty much par for the course with most of you middle aged white guys, who can't play actual basketball, but think you know so much about the game.


THAT IS UTTER NONSENSE.......i'm not a 40ish middle aged white guy, either; i'm a 50ish middle aged BLACK guy, who for all its touted, don't think jack of the rucker league in this era.all it is is a all-star/and 1 showcase for guys who want to ENTERTAIN, not play ball. it's showtime at its best; not necessarily real ball; think "pro wrestling" only in a basketball sense. there's rarely, if any, defense ever played, the pros don't go hard cause they don't have to nor can they afford to get hurt by some wannabe; the street ballers are trying to make a name by dunking on pros, the games themselves are cariactures of pro ball. 

and while its true that BACK IN THE pros worked out there, currently it's all flash and no real ball being played. 

don't think for a second that i can't appreciate high flyers, even ol' boy j.r.; however if all he's got in his game are sikkkk handles and dunks, he'll go the way of corey benjamin, harold miner et al, who couldn't figure out how to translate that sikkkness into a pro basketball career.


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## TripleDouble (Jul 26, 2002)

TomBoerwinkle#1 said:


> JCraw used to play there instead of working out in Chicago.


You've got more restraint than I have.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

Babble-On said:


> Kobe Bryant. Ron Artest. Baron Davis. Jermaine O'Neal. Vince Carter. Off the top of my head all those guys have come through there and played at some point.
> 
> The Rucker is a landmark.


They didn't go there to "hone their skills." Those guys went there to get filmed for the NYC equivalent of an AND1 tape.

A lot of NBA guys have gone and played streetball at Rucker, since the 50's. It is probably fun for them. But they are not going there to "hone their skills" or to improve their game. Its more a one off laugh.


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## Waukee (Jul 14, 2006)

Yeah...JR Smith can dunk...we know that...the guy is still an egomaniac head case...Nobody 'hones their skills' at Rucker...Real players spend hours a day working on their game not playing garbage ball.


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## crazyfan (Dec 9, 2005)

LuCane said:


> Would you be willing to educate me which current stars (maybe over the last 10-15 years) that have honed their skills there? I'm genuinely curious.




Sebastian Telfair. Vince Carter.


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## TripleDouble (Jul 26, 2002)

crazyfan said:


> Sebastian Telfair. Vince Carter.


Telfair's a star?


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## Waukee (Jul 14, 2006)

crazyfan said:


> Sebastian Telfair. Vince Carter.


 Yeah...they played there but they didn't become better basketball players because of it.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

Waukee said:


> Yeah...JR Smith can dunk...we know that...the guy is still an egomaniac head case...Nobody 'hones their skills' at Rucker...Real players spend hours a day working on their game not playing garbage ball.


Agreed. JR Smith needs to be spending the summer lifting and learning things like how to dribble, pass, shoot and defend in a pro system. The last thing he needs to be doing is waste his summer perfecting a new 360 helicopter slam.


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## Waukee (Jul 14, 2006)

TomBoerwinkle#1 said:


> Agreed. JR Smith needs to be spending the summer lifting and learning things like how to dribble, pass, shoot and defend in a pro system. The last thing he needs to be doing is waste his summer perfecting a new 360 helicopter slam.


 Exactly. JR Smith is wasting his young career away making these bad choices. Playing garbage ball at Rucker Park all summer will get him nowhere, he should be in Chicago right now...and then he will complain about how he doesn't get minutes.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

And he still lost to a girl in the slam dunk contest.


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## DengNabbit (Feb 23, 2005)

Babble-On said:


> Kobe Bryant. Ron Artest. Baron Davis. Jermaine O'Neal. Vince Carter. Off the top of my head all those guys have come through there and played at some point.
> 
> The Rucker is a landmark.


youre not answering his exact question. and note: there are things that can be unlearned.


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## crazyfan (Dec 9, 2005)

TripleDouble said:


> Telfair's a star?




Fine, he's not a star, i was just mentioning some of the nba players that played at rucker.


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## lgtwins (May 18, 2004)

crazyfan said:


> Sebastian Telfair. Vince Carter.


Telfair is a star on NBA? When that happened?


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## Babble-On (Sep 28, 2005)

TomBoerwinkle#1 said:


> They didn't go there to "hone their skills." Those guys went there to get filmed for the NYC equivalent of an AND1 tape.
> 
> A lot of NBA guys have gone and played streetball at Rucker, since the 50's. It is probably fun for them. But they are not going there to "hone their skills" or to improve their game. Its more a one off laugh.


I agree that for the most part that they haven't really gone to hone their games. But I also think its a step up from the And1 tour. Much more competitive, actual attempts to play D are made, flashy play but not the type of theatrics you see in And1.

I think its kind of like the pick up games NBA players play in during the summer. I wouldn't say its the best summer ball though.


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## lw32 (May 24, 2003)

The Rucker with NBA players is nothing like it use to be. Nowadays most work out with their respective teams, and might play for a week or two at Rucker during the summer. Back in the day it use to be all the big NBA stars going to the Rucker and playing each other. Wilt, Dr. J, all the big names from the 60's and 70's played in the comp over there in the summers.

If you think it's the same now, you're kidding yourself. JR Smith goes over there for a week, maybe two, plays some sub-par competition (compared to the NBA, and training with the Bulls) and does what he likes. Not the same.

Connie Hawkins is the only real Rucker product. He's the only player to have honed his skills at Rucker and made a big name for himself in the NBA. Nobody else is honing their skills there.


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## crazyfan (Dec 9, 2005)

sloth said:


> And he still lost to a girl in the slam dunk contest.




Come on, so did Josh Smith and Rudy Gay.


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## danred7 (Apr 19, 2006)

BULLHITTER said:


> THAT IS UTTER NONSENSE.......i'm not a 40ish middle aged white guy, either; i'm a 50ish middle aged BLACK guy, who for all its touted, don't think jack of the rucker league in this era.all it is is a all-star/and 1 showcase for guys who want to ENTERTAIN, not play ball. it's showtime at its best; not necessarily real ball; think "pro wrestling" only in a basketball sense. there's rarely, if any, defense ever played, the pros don't go hard cause they don't have to nor can they afford to get hurt by some wannabe; the street ballers are trying to make a name by dunking on pros, the games themselves are cariactures of pro ball.
> 
> and while its true that BACK IN THE pros worked out there, currently it's all flash and no real ball being played.
> 
> don't think for a second that i can't appreciate high flyers, even ol' boy j.r.; however if all he's got in his game are sikkkk handles and dunks, he'll go the way of corey benjamin, harold miner et al, who couldn't figure out how to translate that sikkkness into a pro basketball career.


i.e. Telfair, Marbury, and Rafer Alston
The TRUE Stars of this Leauge


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## Bulls rock your socks (Jun 29, 2006)

that Kobe icon w him wearing 24 looks gay


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

Waukee said:


> Exactly. JR Smith is wasting his young career away making these bad choices. Playing garbage ball at Rucker Park all summer will get him nowhere, he should be in Chicago right now...and then he will complain about how he doesn't get minutes.


trade isn't official yet, so there's no point for him to be here YET


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## Wynn (Jun 3, 2002)

The MAMBA said:


> Rucker Park established legends such as Dr. J, Wilt, Jabbar, etc. So don't patronize me with "Harlem Globetrotters" and "sikkkest of the sikkk", type lines. You obviously are just ignorant to the Rucker Park tournament. Because it isn't like that at all. Yes there is flash, but does that intimidate you? Can your middle aged, over the hill, pasty white a$$ can't handle a little excitement and pizzaz? It is serious basketball, coached basketball, where players also get to show off their individual skills. This is where the stars hone their game, and become legends. Yes, this isn't a place for your John Paxson / Steve Kerr / Andres Nocioni... so that's probably why you have a problem with it. It isn't "white" enough for you, as you think the tournament is all about show boating, and you couldn't be more wrong. And notice how in the: "sikkkest of the sikkk" you spelled each sick with 3 K's. Are you trying to tell us something, Casper?





sloth said:


> And he still lost to a girl in the slam dunk contest.





Bulls rock your socks said:


> that Kobe icon w him wearing 24 looks gay


Excellent, now that we've covered racism, sexism, and gay-bashing, all we need is some agism. Then, even my 150 year-old grandmother's chinese girlfriend could tell you we should shut this thread down....


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## fl_flash (Aug 19, 2002)

major props to TomB for not resorting to The Mambas' level.

Rucker isn't real basketball. Token defense is played and that's about it. Guys like Wilt, Dr. J and the like hardly used rucker to "hone" their skills. That was done with countless hours in a GYM PRACTICING. Rucker is a break for those guys. A chance to play street ball because street ball simply doesn't work in the NBA. There's a very clear reason why you don't see Rucker/and1 type moves in the NBA - they don't work. Hell, I'm 41-year-old pasty-*** white guy and I can pick a streetballer clean on a regular basis and I'm woefully out of shape. I, personally, prefer going up against the streetballer type. I know I'm going to have a good game with a lot of easy layups.

Rucker has its' place and the games are pretty entertaining to watch because you get to see stuff that you won't see on a regular basis in any level of organized basketball and the guys playing there are top notch athletes. To claim that it's the best basketball of the summer and that it's a tool to hone skills is just a bit toooooo much of a strech.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

Well, lets be clear, Rucker park and the tradition of streetball definitley has some deep historical roots and is certainly one of those things that a lot of people don't understand. Guys do work on things they normally wouldn't at the Rucker and sometimes those things end up making it into games too. Of course the Rucker is now basically a pick up game for the elite stars, street, college & NBA to let down their hair and play. That doesn't mean it is a worthless experience and that everything you take from playing at the Rucker is bad...siiikkkk moves and highlight dunks. Anytime your a professional playing the game is instrumental to improving you skills, whether it is on an NBA court, a YMCA floor, a driveway...or the Rucker. Slamming guys for playing there is really uncalled for IMO. Incidentally Crawford did play there...DURING THE SUMMER...he was always a hard worker and never "skipped" working out with the Bulls to play at the Rucker. When you have guys like Kobe, Bosh, Curry, Crawford, Carter, Marbury, Mike Dunleavy, and a host of other NBA greats paying their respects playing there, maybe we should give Rucker the credit it deserves.

Now, on some of the things that have been posted in this thread. First let me just say that racism, sexism, yes even ageism are NOT allowed on this board. If you want to attack the post then do so but never attack the poster personally. For one thing it just isn't classy and for another thing it is against the rules. And for Mamba, he might want to think about how the game of basketball was invented before he calls anyone out for being white...just a thought.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

Wynn said:


> Excellent, now that we've covered racism, sexism, and gay-bashing, all we need is some agism. Then, even my 150 year-old grandmother's chinese girlfriend could tell you we should shut this thread down....


How does it sound if JR Smith lost to a person whose best dunk was a right handed dunk off one foot?


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## The MAMBA (Jan 6, 2006)

TripleDouble said:


> Which NBA champion has relied on playground style of play? Thanks.


When and where were we trying to connect success at Rucker to the NBA? All I was saying, and for true basketball heads who know their stuff, KNOW that Rucker is the elite summer league spot. And if you want to get into playground style that translated to NBA champion... look at: Bob Cousy, Magic Johnson, Kareem, Wilt, Oscar Robertson, Walt Frazier, Earl "The Pearl" Monroe, and I could go ON and ON These were the types of games these people played, and every single one of them is legends of the sport. So, try again, tiger.


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## The MAMBA (Jan 6, 2006)

To ace1004u~

I'm white, but it was the old fart who's original post just OOZED racism and contempt for today's generation of basketball players, and for the sacred tournament of Rucker Park. That upset me, as that's all I ever hear from the oldies. "Back in the day", etc. Or "today's generation...". Plus, it was clearly evident he knows next to nothing about Rucker Park and the tournament held there. And yes, people have gone their to hone their games. Just as Ron Artest, who said he never would've developed his offensive skill set, if it wasn't for playing at the Rucker. I'm tired of people who THINK they know ALL about basketball, and look down on the street aspects of the game. The best players, and ALL the elite talent in the league have in a way let street "skillz" mesh with their fundamentals to be the most lethal weapons on the basketball court. The Rucker was what made Julius Erving become "Dr. J", WAY before he played for the Nets. There were players at the Rucker tournament, who we better than NBA stars of that era. Pee Wee Kirkland (drafted by the Bulls) was 3x the player Walt Frazier and Nate Archibald were. He made more money on the streets, then the contract he was offered by Chicago. It's just alot of you don't know the history or caliber of player who plays there, so your write it off as a joke. When it isn't. NBA players play there the whole summer, cause it is the best competition. Hungry street players, ex-college ball players and others who are itching at a chance to go at NBA superstars allows for better competetion than complacency of normal summer league games, with JUST NBA pros. That's why it is the best. Many of the leagues elite talent, and players play there or have played there. Let's name a few:
Kobe
Iverson
Vince Carter
Ron Artest
Jermome Willaims
Marbury
J O'Neal
Baron Davis
Steve Francis
Jamal Crawford

and that's just to name a FEW.


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## The MAMBA (Jan 6, 2006)

sloth said:


> How does it sound if JR Smith lost to a person whose best dunk was a right handed dunk off one foot?


You do realize that they gave it to Candice b/c it was a quasi-publicity stunt.. Please tell me you understand this.


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## TripleDouble (Jul 26, 2002)

The MAMBA said:


> When and where were we trying to connect success at Rucker to the NBA? All I was saying, and for true basketball heads who know their stuff, KNOW that Rucker is the elite summer league spot. And if you want to get into playground style that translated to NBA champion... look at: Bob Cousy, Magic Johnson, Kareem, Wilt, Oscar Robertson, Walt Frazier, Earl "The Pearl" Monroe, and I could go ON and ON These were the types of games these people played, and every single one of them is legends of the sport. So, try again, tiger.


You keep on hanging your hat on past success, I'll keep an eye on current NBA players who play playground, no defense ball and base my conclussions on that. 

We all saw what happened when the US international teams thought they could just show up and out highlight everyone.


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## The MAMBA (Jan 6, 2006)

Dwyane Wade's game is heavily influenced by street ball. Just look at the way he dribbles, drives to the hole, etc. That's Chi-town streetball at its finest. And he lead a team all the way to the NBA championship. And I do beliebe he JUST won an NBA chip, as in about a month ago. So, is that recent enough for YOU to hang your hat on?


And what are you talking about the International game for? We lost that because a) we threw a team together at the last second b) barely practiced c) didn't have the chemistry the other national teams had developed by playing with each other for YEARS d) had an overrated coach, who didn't know how to properly utilize his talent, etc.

BET you this years outcome will be different.


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## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

The MAMBA said:


> When and where were we trying to connect success at Rucker to the NBA? All I was saying, and for true basketball heads who know their stuff, KNOW that Rucker is the elite summer league spot. And if you want to get into playground style that translated to NBA champion... look at: Bob Cousy, Magic Johnson, Kareem, Wilt, Oscar Robertson, Walt Frazier, Earl "The Pearl" Monroe, and I could go ON and ON These were the types of games these people played, and every single one of them is legends of the sport. So, try again, tiger.


Historically, I agree with you. And I agree that talented NBA players still go there to enjoy the history, the atmosphere, and the fun. 

But it is not this:



> It is serious basketball, coached basketball, where players also get to show off their individual skills. This is where the stars hone their game, and become legends.


Not anymore, anyway. Now its as much about marketing as anything else. NBA TV used to (and still might) televise the Rucker League. I've seen dozens of the games. And, while entertaining and a significant step above the choreographed nonsense that is And1 ball, it is not serious, disciplined, coached basketball and lacks any semblence of organized team defense. 

It is what it is. Good and bad.


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## The MAMBA (Jan 6, 2006)

BTW, who said "playground ball" has no defense? Tell that to Ron Artest, aka the best defender in the league. There is no doubt in my mind, that few of you have actually played basketball, let alone at a high level and at a high skill level. I can tell by reading the way you write about the game. The best players encompass both organized, developed, fundamentals and "skillz".


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## The MAMBA (Jan 6, 2006)

Ron Cey said:


> Not anymore, anyway. Now its as much about marketing as anything else. NBA TV used to (and still might) televise the Rucker League. I've seen dozens of the games. And, while entertaining and a significant step above the choreographed nonsense that is And1 ball, it is not serious, disciplined, coached basketball and lacks any semblence of organized team defense.
> 
> It is what it is. Good and bad.


Oh, I agree. I was simply having to defend the "vision" of Rucker Park, because some people who obviously knew NOTHING about it, were trashing it. It isn't And 1. Yet it isn't what it ONCE was, either. Marketing, endorsement deals, and public attention has played a factor into it. It ashame, because there was a time when there was better games going on there, then there was in the NBA.


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## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

> NBA players play there the whole summer, cause it is the best competition.


That, actually, would more likely be found in the professional summer leagues and at regional private facilities such as Hoops in Chicago. My understanding is that there are private gyms in Houston and Los Angeles that groups of NBA players workout at and scrimmage at as well. 



> Hungry street players, ex-college ball players and others who are itching at a chance to go at NBA superstars allows for better competetion than complacency of normal summer league games, with JUST NBA pros.


The vast majority of summer league rosters are comprised of hungry ex-college and international ball players who are NOT in the NBA and who are "itching at a chance" to make it in the league. Those games aren't complacent. Those guys are fighting for their careers in front of the coaches and staff that will decide their fate. 



> That's why it is the best. Many of the leagues elite talent, and players play there or have played there. Let's name a few:
> Kobe
> Iverson
> Vince Carter
> ...


There are charity games all summer long comprised solely of NBA players, but that most certainly is not the "best" basketball being played in the offseason.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

The MAMBA said:


> To ace1004u~
> 
> I'm white, but it was the old fart who's original post just OOZED racism and contempt for today's generation of basketball players, and for the sacred tournament of Rucker Park. That upset me, as that's all I ever hear from the oldies. "Back in the day", etc. Or "today's generation...". Plus, it was clearly evident he knows next to nothing about Rucker Park and the tournament held there. And yes, people have gone their to hone their games. Just as Ron Artest, who said he never would've developed his offensive skill set, if it wasn't for playing at the Rucker. I'm tired of people who THINK they know ALL about basketball, and look down on the street aspects of the game. The best players, and ALL the elite talent in the league have in a way let street "skillz" mesh with their fundamentals to be the most lethal weapons on the basketball court. The Rucker was what made Julius Erving become "Dr. J", WAY before he played for the Nets. There were players at the Rucker tournament, who we better than NBA stars of that era. Pee Wee Kirkland (drafted by the Bulls) was 3x the player Walt Frazier and Nate Archibald were. He made more money on the streets, then the contract he was offered by Chicago. It's just alot of you don't know the history or caliber of player who plays there, so your write it off as a joke. When it isn't. NBA players play there the whole summer, cause it is the best competition. Hungry street players, ex-college ball players and others who are itching at a chance to go at NBA superstars allows for better competetion than complacency of normal summer league games, with JUST NBA pros. That's why it is the best. Many of the leagues elite talent, and players play there or have played there. Let's name a few:
> Kobe
> ...



Rucker Park established legends such as Dr. J, Wilt, Jabbar, etc. So don't patronize me with "Harlem Globetrotters" and "sikkkest of the sikkk", type lines. You obviously are just ignorant to the Rucker Park tournament. Because it isn't like that at all. Yes there is flash, but does that intimidate you? Can your middle aged, over the hill, pasty white a$$ can't handle a little excitement and pizzaz? It is serious basketball, coached basketball, where players also get to show off their individual skills. This is where the stars hone their game, and become legends. Yes, this isn't a place for your John Paxson / Steve Kerr / Andres Nocioni... so that's probably why you have a problem with it. It isn't "white" enough for you, as you think the tournament is all about show boating, and you couldn't be more wrong. And notice how in the: "sikkkest of the sikkk" you spelled each sick with 3 K's. Are you trying to tell us something, Casper?

You know? For a 40 year old, you're pretty immature... Mr. TomBoerwinkle#1


Ok, THATS the post I was talking about Mamba and it is definitley racist. Believe it or not you don't have to be a different color than the person your posting about to make racist comments. I understand that you were upset because you felt that there was racial bias against Ruckers and because Ruckers often doesn't get the respect it deserves, especially with traditionalist basketball fans who would much rather watch Hoosiers for the thousandth time than Kobe playing at the Rucker. Regardless, don't make statements like you did to other posters, it just ends up making you look bad and, as I said, it is against the rules. If you want to argue that Ruckers is a time honored tradition and helps develop basketball players then do so...I would even agree with you to a point.

I've watched the EBC a couple of years. I have seen some streetball events at Rucker and I can understand where your old school basketball traditionalists will just see it as "the wrestling of basketball" as someone put it. I mean the emcees sometimes can grate on the nerves, even to someone like me who is considered "down", "Oh baby oh baby...whats he goonnna do now" can drive me nuts after the hundredth time I have heard it. As far as developing your game at the Rucker I know it happens because I know players try things on the street that they wouldn't normally try in games..at least not until they have mastered it. Of course there will still be plenty of people who will say that Rucker is detreminental to a pros game, no matter what evidence you provide. So, one important thing to remember is that everyone is entitled to their opinion...even if they are wrong.


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## The MAMBA (Jan 6, 2006)

fl_flash said:


> major props to TomB for not resorting to The Mambas' level.
> 
> Rucker isn't real basketball. Token defense is played and that's about it. Guys like Wilt, Dr. J and the like hardly used rucker to "hone" their skills. That was done with countless hours in a GYM PRACTICING. Rucker is a break for those guys. A chance to play street ball because street ball simply doesn't work in the NBA. There's a very clear reason why you don't see Rucker/and1 type moves in the NBA - they don't work. Hell, I'm 41-year-old pasty-*** white guy and I can pick a streetballer clean on a regular basis and I'm woefully out of shape. I, personally, prefer going up against the streetballer type. I know I'm going to have a good game with a lot of easy layups.
> 
> Rucker has its' place and the games are pretty entertaining to watch because you get to see stuff that you won't see on a regular basis in any level of organized basketball and the guys playing there are top notch athletes. To claim that it's the best basketball of the summer and that it's a tool to hone skills is just a bit toooooo much of a strech.


Evidently you aren't playing good street ball players. haha Mickey and Minnie don't count, pops.

It's ashame you don't actually live in Chicago, instead of just posting on their message boards...because I would sincerely like to see your old a$$ try to steal the ball from me. And eventually see you snap your back in trying to do so. I would shake the dust off your ankles. Stick to Disney World amusment park, gramps.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

The MAMBA said:


> You do realize that they gave it to Candice b/c it was a quasi-publicity stunt.. Please tell me you understand this.


Actually, I thought it was because the guys didn't make their dunk.

btw, Hoops the Gym seems to be the NBA hotspot.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

This thread is awesome.


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## The MAMBA (Jan 6, 2006)

ace20004u said:


> I've watched the EBC a couple of years. I have seen some streetball events at Rucker and I can understand where your old school basketball traditionalists will just see it as "the wrestling of basketball" as someone put it. I mean the emcees sometimes can grate on the nerves, even to someone like me who is considered "down", "Oh baby oh baby...whats he goonnna do now" can drive me nuts after the hundredth time I have heard it. As far as developing your game at the Rucker I know it happens because I know players try things on the street that they wouldn't normally try in games..at least not until they have mastered it. Of course there will still be plenty of people who will say that Rucker is detreminental to a pros game, no matter what evidence you provide. So, one important thing to remember is that everyone is entitled to their opinion...even if they are wrong.


I understand that. But you also have to understand... he baited me into an argument with his statement. He knew what he was saying would push buttons. And it was glaring he knew nothing about what he was talking about. I have no problems with opinions, it's the point of a message board. If he would have shared his in a way that didn't come off as a jab, I would've responded completely different. I'm a nice guy, but don't push me.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

The MAMBA said:


> Evidently you aren't playing good street ball players. haha Mickey and Minnie don't count, pops.
> 
> It's ashame you don't actually live in Chicago, instead of just posting on their message boards...because I would sincerely like to see you(edited for masked cursing) try to steal the ball from me. And eventually see you snap your back in trying to do so. I would shake the dust off your ankles. Stick to Disney World amusment park, gramps.



I'm gonna tell ya one more time...no attacking posters because of their age, no masked cursing, keep it civil. And it's nice to know you think you can beat older people at basketball, surely there is a nursing home somewhere nearby?


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## The MAMBA (Jan 6, 2006)

sloth said:


> Actually, I thought it was because the guys didn't make their dunk.
> 
> btw, Hoops the Gym seems to be the NBA hotspot.


Yes, I know..

I have hooped there before.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

Of course, Ben Gordon no longer plays at Hoops, the Berto Centers free .


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## The MAMBA (Jan 6, 2006)

ace20004u said:


> I'm gonna tell ya one more time...no attacking posters because of their age, no masked cursing, keep it civil. And it's nice to know you think you can beat older people at basketball, surely there is a nursing home somewhere nearby?


Naw, it isn't about nursing homes. Gramps said what he said, to get a rise out of me. He knows damn well he can't play basketball. I was just having some fun with him. He knows he couldn't guard anyone with real basketball skills. Whether they are fundamental, or "street".


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

The MAMBA said:


> I understand that. But you also have to understand... he baited me into an argument with his statement. He knew what he was saying would push buttons. And it was glaring he knew nothing about what he was talking about. I have no problems with opinions, it's the point of a message board. If he would have shared his in a way that didn't come off as a jab, I would've responded completely different. I'm a nice guy, but don't push me.



Well, I don't think it was baiting, razzing maybe and thats alright as long as it isn't done in the form of a personal attack. TomB is one of the coolest posters on the Bulls forum and I'd like it if you guys would shake hands and get a long and lets end the drama, alright?


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## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

The MAMBA said:


> I'm a nice guy, but don't push me.


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## The MAMBA (Jan 6, 2006)

sloth said:


> Of course, Ben Gordon no longer plays at Hoops, the Berto Centers free .


Yeah, but they have better players than Ben Gordon who go to play there. So, it all works out in the end.


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## The MAMBA (Jan 6, 2006)

ace20004u said:


> Well, I don't think it was baiting, razzing maybe and thats alright as long as it isn't done in the form of a personal attack. TomB is one of the coolest posters on the Bulls forum and I'd like it if you guys would shake hands and get a long and lets end the drama, alright?


You mean melodrama? Sure... I got no problems. But as a moderator, you can't be so one sided, homie. I see you want to defend posters you are familar with, cause they post on the same board as you... but you can't do it at the expense of me, and not acknowledge the addittional fuel thrown on the fires by the other posters in this thread. Hell, I remember some clown, who couldn't put a sentence together saying something along the lines of "That Kobe in 24 jersey picture is 'gay'"... come on now. If you're going to address me, you got to address the others in this thread. You don't know me, so naturally you side with the people you see post in this forum on a regular basis. Which isn't exactly the definition of a moderator, now is it?


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

The MAMBA said:


> Naw, it isn't about nursing homes. Gramps said what he said, to get a rise out of me. He knows damn well he can't play basketball. I was just having some fun with him. He knows he couldn't guard anyone with real basketball skills. Whether they are fundamental, or "street".



Thats cool but you never know, sometimes peopel surprise you. I know I used to coach a Y team, being 6'1" and 280 I was never built for basketball but I love it anyway and have taken a long time learning the intricacies of the game and techniques etc, it's never gonna turn me into a great baller but I've surprised people at times. Like when I was coaching that YMCA team and I came into the scrimmage to guard the 6'3" atheletic know it all point guard. He had mad talent and crazy skills...he also had a lack of respect for me because I was an unatheletic white guy. Well, when he tried to cross me over and I came up with the ball and sprinted to the other end of the gym for a layup while all of the rest of the players laughed at him I would say he had a newfound respect.


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## The MAMBA (Jan 6, 2006)

ace20004u said:


> Thats cool but you never know, sometimes peopel surprise you. I know I used to coach a Y team, being 6'1" and 280 I was never built for basketball but I love it anyway and have taken a long time learning the intricacies of the game and techniques etc, it's never gonna turn me into a great baller but I've surprised people at times. Like when I was coaching that YMCA team and I came into the scrimmage to guard the 6'3" atheletic know it all point guard. He had mad talent and crazy skills...he also had a lack of respect for me because I was an unatheletic white guy. Well, when he tried to cross me over and I came up with the ball and sprinted to the other end of the gym for a layup while all of the rest of the players laughed at him I would say he had a newfound respect.


Err, that's nice. Want a cookie? (j/k) I think I get the metaphor you're trying to project on me, but respect is a two way street. Or supposed to be. Is it not?


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

The MAMBA said:


> You mean melodrama? Sure... I got no problems. But as a moderator, you can't be so one sided, homie. I see you want to defend posters you are familar with, cause they post on the same board as you... but you can't do it at the expense of me, and not acknowledge the addittional fuel thrown on the fires by the other posters in this thread. Hell, I remember some clown, who couldn't put a sentence together saying something along the lines of "That Kobe in 24 jersey picture is 'gay'"... come on now. If you're going to address me, you got to address the others in this thread. You don't know me, so naturally you side with the people you see post in this forum on a regular basis. Which isn't exactly the definition of a moderator, now is it?



I'm not one sided at all. I didn't see Tom B say anything that should be considered baiting by anyone. I saw that he pretty much shared his opinion of the Rucker using sarcasm, something he is allowed to do, he didn't address anything to you specifically though you seemed to take it personal. I don't really care who started it or who threw fuel on the fire, all I am saying is it is done...period. I will look back in the thread and see if there are any homophobic comments that need to be edited. I've been a mod here for many years and I don't take sides except in the who's right and who's wrong department. Your comments were way out of line of what anyone else had to say and instead of lecturing me on how to moderate maybe you should consider apologizing for offending whomever you did. Now, like I said, it is done...over with or this thread is locked.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

The MAMBA said:


> Err, that's nice. Want a cookie? (j/k) I think I get the metaphor you're trying to project on me, but respect is a two way street. Or supposed to be. Is it not?



It is a two way street but just remember, someone not sharing your opinion doesn't mean they are disrespecting you either. If Tom B wants to think the Rucker is weak then he can go on believing that and it shouldn't mean that you attack each other about it, right?

*chuckles* Really I just wanted to brag on how I managed to coach something into that guy he will probably never forget.


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## transplant (Jul 31, 2002)

kukoc4ever said:


> This thread is awesome.


 :yes: 

And from outta nowhere! An oasis in an otherwise desolate Bulls/NBA discussion landscape.

LMOFWAO (laughing my old, fat, white *** off).


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## The MAMBA (Jan 6, 2006)

ace20004u said:


> I'm not one sided at all. I didn't see Tom B say anything that should be considered baiting by anyone. I saw that he pretty much shared his opinion of the Rucker using sarcasm, something he is allowed to do, he didn't address anything to you specifically though you seemed to take it personal. I don't really care who started it or who threw fuel on the fire, all I am saying is it is done...period. I will look back in the thread and see if there are any homophobic comments that need to be edited. I've been a mod here for many years and I don't take sides except in the who's right and who's wrong department. Your comments were way out of line of what anyone else had to say and instead of lecturing me on how to moderate maybe you should consider apologizing for offending whomever you did. Now, like I said, it is done...over with or this thread is locked.


Right and wrong is COMPLETELY subjective in this case. This isn't murder, there is no clear cut "right and "wrong". A moderator doesn't side, regardless. He is the split in the middle. The fork in the road. There was multiple people attacking me. I think there was maybe one other person who stood up next to me with my idea and opinion, and defended it. Your thoughts or ideals may allign with Tom B. who was CLEARLY baiting, and looking to antagonize, so you don't view it as baiting or him and the rest of the people who posted in a similar fashion as the ones being in the "wrong".


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## TripleDouble (Jul 26, 2002)

The MAMBA said:


> you're pretty immature...





The MAMBA said:


> I'm a nice guy, but don't push me.


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## jbulls (Aug 31, 2005)

This is the kind of keen insight so many of us frequent bbb.net for.


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## The MAMBA (Jan 6, 2006)

ace20004u said:


> It is a two way street but just remember, someone not sharing your opinion doesn't mean they are disrespecting you either. If Tom B wants to think the Rucker is weak then he can go on believing that and it shouldn't mean that you attack each other about it, right?
> 
> *chuckles* Really I just wanted to brag on how I managed to coach something into that guy he will probably never forget.


It was probably shrugged off as a fluke after the next few plays, where he proceeded to score basket after basket. lol...

Anyway, he can say the Rucker is weak. And he can convey it in adult, coherent like terms. Not in a way that is baiting, where he tried to mimick hip-hop / black culture language as a means to discredit the Rucker Park and its tournament. You have your "buddy goggles" on, and are refusing to see this from an objective p.o.v. Which is what a moderator is supposed to be doing. I was not in the wrong. I was being attacked, and it is only natural for people to defend themselves when attacked.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

ok, I am locking it up, I can see reasoning and intelligent debate got us nowhere!


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

The MAMBA said:


> . And notice how in the: "sikkkest of the sikkk" you spelled each sick with 3 K's. Are you trying to tell us something, Casper?
> 
> You know? For a 40 year old, you're pretty immature... Mr. TomBoerwinkle#1.


You are free to disagree with me, and I can let the "middle aged white guy" stuff slide -- its a typical attack from Generation X-Box, but I highly resent the implication of racism.

That pisses me off.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

The MAMBA said:


> To ace1004u~
> 
> I'm white, but it was the old fart who's original post just OOZED racism and contempt for today's generation of basketball players, and for the sacred tournament of Rucker Park. That upset me, as that's all I ever hear from the oldies. "Back in the day", etc. Or "today's generation...". Plus, it was clearly evident he knows next to nothing about Rucker Park and the tournament held there. And yes, people have gone their to hone their games. Just as Ron Artest, who said he never would've developed his offensive skill set, if it wasn't for playing at the Rucker. I'm tired of people who THINK they know ALL about basketball, and look down on the street aspects of the game. The best players, and ALL the elite talent in the league have in a way let street "skillz" mesh with their fundamentals to be the most lethal weapons on the basketball court. The Rucker was what made Julius Erving become "Dr. J", WAY before he played for the Nets. There were players at the Rucker tournament, who we better than NBA stars of that era. Pee Wee Kirkland (drafted by the Bulls) was 3x the player Walt Frazier and Nate Archibald were. He made more money on the streets, then the contract he was offered by Chicago. It's just alot of you don't know the history or caliber of player who plays there, so your write it off as a joke. When it isn't. NBA players play there the whole summer, cause it is the best competition. Hungry street players, ex-college ball players and others who are itching at a chance to go at NBA superstars allows for better competetion than complacency of normal summer league games, with JUST NBA pros. That's why it is the best. Many of the leagues elite talent, and players play there or have played there. Let's name a few:
> Kobe
> ...


Look, pee-wee. You don't know me or anything about what I know about basketball. I've never been to Rucker, but I've watched enough highlights to understand it. Check my posts, ask around. I know a thing or two. I'm not some loudmouth fat*** on a barstool cursing cornrows and long shorts. Check facts before you mouth off, son.

There is nothing racist about not enjoying the AND1 style of basketball. I consider it on par with the Globetrotter analogy I alluded to before -- fun to watch, but having little to do with the actual game.

You cite examples of street hustlers who "made more money than they would have in the NBA."

Fine.

But the fact remains, the game of basketball is played by rules -- not street rules, but the "official" rules.

and that is why the so-called street legends remain on the street.


You like what you like about basketball, and I'll like what I like.


But if you've called me racist twice.

Don't do it again.

You can think of me as an "old fart" all you want.

EDIT: based on our PM exchanges, The Mamba is no longer welcome on bbb.net


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