# Raptors @ Heat, Nov. 30



## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

<center>

















*Toronto Raptors* (6-9) @ *Miami Heat* (10-5)
November 30th, 2004, 7:30 PM EST
The Score






































*Rafer Alston, Vince Carter, Jalen Rose, Chris Bosh, Loren Woods*





































*Dwyane Wade, Eddie Jones, Rasual Butler, Udonis Haslem, Shaquille O'Neal*</center>


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## madman (Oct 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>speedythief</b>!
> <center>
> 
> 
> ...


are you sure that is jalen rose and rasual butler??? 
 

any way dont expect much from the raptors, if u have shaq in fantasy this is going to be a good night for you (unless he gets into foul trouble) becuae he should have no problem with our scrawny Cs

Our only hope at winning is shutting down Wade and making Shaq do everything


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

I'm expecting the Raptors to lose a close game, I think Shaq will dominate the first half, but won't do as well in the 2nd, and I also am expecting Bosh to have a solid game. 
99-94 Heat


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

*Re: Re: Raptors @ Heat, Nov. 30*



> Originally posted by <b>madman</b>!
> are you sure that is jalen rose and rasual butler???


Yeah, forecaster uses numbers instead of player names in their image tags. I did Butler's wrong (Bullard?), and when I went back to change it I changed Jalen's instead. Still, I fixed it before the post edit message marred the thread post so it's all good.


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## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

*Re: Re: Re: Raptors @ Heat, Nov. 30*



> Originally posted by <b>speedythief</b>!
> 
> 
> I did Butler's wrong (Bullard?), and when I went back to change it I changed Jalen's instead.


Actually I think that is Tsakalidis? Meh, doesn't matter  


Anyways, I might not be able to watch this one... I think Woods might be able to do a decent job on Shaq. By decent I mean not allowing Shaq to get 40 points. I hope to see what Araujo can do with Shaq, but I doubt he'll get any burn.

Hopefully we can get Shaq or Wade in foul trouble, that is our only chance.

And maybe Skip will do a real good job on Wade, since they practiced against each other all last year.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

Will Mitchell continue playing small ball against Shaq and try to pull him away from the basket? Will be interesting to see if Mitchell alters his lineup and goes with more of Aruajo or Moiso.


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>jcintosun911</b>!
> I'm expecting the Raptors to lose a close game, I think Shaq will dominate the first half, but won't do as well in the 2nd, and I also am expecting Bosh to have a solid game.
> 99-94 Heat


game won't be close at all I'am not even gonna bother to watch


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## McFurious (Mar 25, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Mr_B</b>!
> game won't be close at all I'am not even gonna bother to watch


What a great Raptor Fan:grinning:


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## McFurious (Mar 25, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>SkywalkerAC</b>!
> Will Mitchell continue playing small ball against Shaq and try to pull him away from the basket? Will be interesting to see if Mitchell alters his lineup and goes with more of Aruajo or Moiso.


I think (hope) Mitchell has to put in Aruajo to bother Shaq.. its going to be interesting to see how Aruajo fairs with the likes of Shaq. Mitchell has to give this kids some mintues how the hell is he going to develop his game from the bench?


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>McFurious</b>!
> 
> 
> What a great Raptor Fan:grinning:


come on even you know in your heart that this game is out of reach trying to keep the faith would be pointless for this one


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## McFurious (Mar 25, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Mr_B</b>!
> come on even you know in your heart that this game is out of reach trying to keep the faith would be pointless for this one


The raps beat Detroit, Indiana, Utah.. get the point?? and I'll still watch a losing cause im not a band wagon jumper... :no:


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>McFurious</b>!
> 
> The raps beat Detroit, Indiana, Utah.. get the point?? and I'll still watch a losing cause im not a band wagon jumper... :no:


none of those teams had shaq


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Mr_B</b>!
> none of those teams had shaq


So what? 
Miami doesn't have Ben Wallace, Rasheed Wallace, AK47, Carlos Boozer, Tim Duncan, Ginobili, or Tony Parker.


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## JL2002 (Nov 30, 2003)

There's no way anyone in the Raps' roster that can stop Shaq, but we can stop Dwayne Wade for sure.... that is IF they are willing to play defense this game all of a sudden.


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## HEATLUNATIC (May 27, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>jcintosun911</b>!
> 
> 
> So what?
> Miami doesn't have Ben Wallace, Rasheed Wallace, AK47, Carlos Boozer, Tim Duncan, Ginobili, or Tony Parker.


We do have Dwyane Wade!!!

Maybe you've heard of him???


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

Vince to guard D-Wade? :uhoh:


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

The Score's camera angle sucks.


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>jcintosun911</b>!
> 
> 
> So what?
> Miami doesn't have Ben Wallace, Rasheed Wallace, AK47, Carlos Boozer, Tim Duncan, Ginobili, or Tony Parker.


your talking like you've never seen shaq play ball before ..if the avg PF can come up againt us and have a career night then image shaq


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mr_B</b>!
> your talking like you've never seen shaq play ball before ..if the avg PF can come up againt us and have a career night then image shaq


Well it's too bad you're not watching the game either way... because we're up by 4 right now.


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Budweiser_Boy</b>!
> 
> 
> Well it's too bad you're not watching the game either way... because we're up by 4 right now.


games are not won in the 1st quater


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mr_B</b>!
> games are not won in the 1st quater


The game's in the 2nd...


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## sKiP~2~mY~BLUTH (Aug 11, 2004)

we cant stop the diezel! :no: 

he's goin for 30+, 20 +/-

GO RAPTORS! ! !


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

Mr.B since your not watching the game I'll give you some updates on what's going on.
Half Time:
Raptors 48
Heat 42
Rose 11 Points
Shaq 21 Points


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

As expected, Shaq came out strong in the first half, but he will regress in the second half, especially in the 4th quarter, where his team will be reluctant to give him the ball, because of his poor free throw shooting. However I should point out so far he has been 5/7 from the line, which is pretty good for him so far. 
Will he be able to keep it up?
We'll see


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

Miami outrebounded us 27 to 15 in the first half, yet we are winning?
Why? Maybe part of the reason is because we have turned the ball over 6 times, while the Heat have turned it over 12.


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## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

Yes Hoffa! This is exactly how he should be used and how he should be playing. Good stuff.

I hope you're watching, Hoffa haters.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Wow Vince doing a good job on locking wade out in the first half


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Numbed One</b>!
> Yes Hoffa! This is exactly how he should be used and how he should be playing. Good stuff.
> 
> I hope you're watching, Hoffa haters.


I like his free-throw shooting mechanics.


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Hbwoy</b>!
> Wow Vince doing a good job on locking wade out in the first half


Vince also did a good job of locking himself out, 3 points....


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

We played well in the first half, but I still think that Miami can explode any second.


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

Since your not watching the game Mr.B, second half started, Toronto winning 51-50 with 8:07 left.
Eddie Jones has 5 TO's already, and Wade has 4..


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

This sucks fouls killing us


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

Yeah we got a few calls against us like that blocking foul on Bonner.
Then again, they made up for it when Jalen went to the line the next trip down the floor.


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

Good to see the Raps hold on to the lead..
68-65 after 3 quarters.
Now that Vince will return to the game, hopefully he can help out down the stretch so we can keep the lead.


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

Jalen Rose with 19 points with one quarter to go. 
He's been playing great, driving to the bucket, drawing the contact.
Keep it up. 


Something even more surprising, Jalen missed two free throws in 1 game.


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

Raptors lead 80-77... Shaq on the bench with 32/16... damn


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

Wow Vince is sucking it up... even missing open shots!


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

RAFER!!!!!!


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

_Vintage_ Donyell Marshall!


16 Points 8 Rebounds(5 Offensive)
Raptors Lead 92-87 with 1:18 left.


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

BULL****!!! HOW IS THAT NOT A FOUL!!!! ****IN AMERICAN REFS!!!!


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

We NEED TO stop Dwyane!


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

RAPTORS WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## laydee-bawla22 (Jul 15, 2003)

Vince invisible for the whole game...but that was a BIG stop.
Ya missed a good game B.


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Mr_B</b>!
> game won't be close at all I'am not even gonna bother to watch


You missed a good game Mr.B


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

*claps* I'am impressed I caught the last 15.3sec good team defense in the strech proved me wrong tonight





*pulls out knife & fork prepares to eat own words*


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## sKiP~2~mY~BLUTH (Aug 11, 2004)

yea baby!!
we won!!! :yes: :yes: 
can som1 tell me what happened in the last 16 secs...???
cuz the PBP went from 16 secs to final score....

GO RAPTORS!!!!!!!!
we won on the road...nice!


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## MonkeyBallZJr (May 7, 2004)

Its definitely great that we won a close game after losing a lot of them, it should really boost the players confidence on this road trip.


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

Vince altered Dwayne's first attempt so he ended up passing it, and Vince got a peice on that shot and then there was a scramble, Wade got the ball took a three at the buzzer and missed.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Vince with a block in the final seconds, great D


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## MangoMangoMango (Jan 23, 2004)

if you didn't watch the game you may think "WoaH?!?! Vince Sux"

but if u did watch the game...you can't deny that carter played an important role in this game....

his Defence is Magnificent....I was really suprised to see Vince defend this well....there were many occasions where I thought Wade could have easily went pass vince....but again and again Vince surprises me with his defence....

Also a Good Job from Donyell...we really need him to win games.


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

> Also a Good Job from Donyell...we really need him to win games.


Yes tonight Donyell reminded me about how well he played last year, when given the chance, this guy is going to perform.

Some crucial rebounds and buckets down the stretch to keep us in the lead.
Did we even give up the lead in the 2nd half?
Good overall performance for the Raptors, now they'll have their heads up high going into Orlando tomorrow.


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## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

Awesome offensive rebounding by Marshall, won us the game IMO. He showed a lot of onions fighting with Shaq a lot of the night and being on the wrong end of countless no calls and stupid fouls against Shaq in the paint. But such is life guarding the big man, the refs love the guy or seem incapable of reffing him correctly.

I notice in general the Raptors get a lot of shady calls against and no calls for, but tonight Rose especially did a good job of getting to the line. Good work by Lamond and Bosh getting Diesel to 5 fouls in the 4th.

And Vince once again showed how he can turn on his defense in the final minutes of games... if only he brought half that amount of intensity to the rest of the game it would make a world of difference. He refuses to fight through screens.

I would have like to see Hoffa get in there in the second half and use up the rest of his fouls, but Mitchell didn't think so. Marshall made up for his size disadvantage on defense by hitting the o-glass hard, so it was the right call by Sam.

Rose is the man. Hope he keeps this up.


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

Vince played nice defense on Wade all game, giving him the room to take the outside shot, which we know is a weakness, and preventing him from really penetrating. But Vince was just terrible on offense and just wasn't aggressive at all.

Shaq killed us, but I think everyone expected that.. we managed to keep everyone else under control though Wade did end getting his as well. 

Hoffa looked impressive out there, giving us a couple fouls, holding his own against Shaq, and being agressive on offense. 

Rafer Alston played pretty good, pushed the ball up the court and hit some key baskets. He is still struggling with that three ball, but its just a little slump and he should get over that soon.

Bosh wasn't aggressive in the first half, but he was hitting those open jumpers Haslem was giving him. In the second half he focused more on going to the basket and attacking Shaq & Haslem. Bosh really hasn't done a good job on protecting the ball this season.. too many turnovers.

Donny scored a pretty quiet 16 off the bench. But he did hit some big shots, and got some important rebounds to keep us in the game. Didn't shoot well from three, but hit those inside shots which I'd like to see more of.

And then there was Rose, who was great again tonight. He is hitting his jumpers.. off screens, on the break. But most importantly he has looked to take it into the post alot and is really looking for contact. He is the man right now.

Also, a lot of real questionable calls tonight.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

That was fun! Big road win to begin our Eastern swing.

The officiating tonight was horrible. They dominated the game. It was impossible to determine which way calls were going to go. Charging is the hardest call to make and they seemed to get it wrong every time tonight.

Carter had a wierd night. He proved that he cannot provide consistent effort on both ends of the floor. After a dismal defensive effort against the Wizards in a loss, he had a good defensive effort in a win against the Heat. But he had a bunch of points and was a weapon against Washington, whereas he was passive and unimpressive against Miami. Vince looked to pass all night long when we really needed someone to take over the game down the stretch. Frustrating. I thought Vince was starting to come-around in these last few games. I guess it will take more time.

Jalen had another big game. You don't expect him to play defence, and he didn't do much of that, but he shouldered the scoring burden and made a big impact in the second half. He didn't shoot or pass particularly well, but he scored a lot of points and had an important offensive rebound late in the game. Jalen didn't spend the whole game jawing at the refs, either, which was strange because they really deserved it tonight. I guess sending Jalen to the line twelve times keeps his mouth shut.

CB4 had a good game tonight. He baited Udonis Haslem into taking 16 shots, which was a big factor in preventing D-Wade and Shaq from getting excessive shot attempts. Bosh hit some shots, ripped down some boards, stayed in front of Shaq and drew some fouls. Chris was instrumental in getting Shaq into foul trouble, which was the deciding factor in the game. Great effort tonight.

Woods started strong and then faded away. Luckily D-Marsh was hot tonight. I hated his last three-point attempt, as it was an unnecessary and low-percentage shot when we needed two points as much as we needed three... but otherwise he played a big game on the offensive glass and did his best against Shaq Daddy. Marshall had key put-backs in the fourth that helped put us over the edge.

Hoffa did well for himself, too. He went into the game, played tough against Shaq, used his fouls, went to the stripe four times, and did it all with a swagger that brought a smile to my face. He looked relaxed tonight for some reason and it paid off. Four points in three minutes is pretty damn good efficiency!

Moiso stayed on the pine, again. I'm starting to think the writing is on the wall with that cat.

Person and the Jones's played like garbage tonight, thankfully. Had any one of them been hot, this game could've been very different.


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

Just wanted to point out that for the FG % race, Bonner went 2/5 while Shaq went 12/15
Bonner still has the slight advantage, currently shooting 61%, while Shaq is shooting 60%.
Keep it up!


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## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>speedythief</b>!
> 
> 
> CB4 had a good game tonight. He baited Udonis Haslem into taking 16 shots, which was a big factor in preventing D-Wade and Shaq from getting excessive shot attempts.


Yup, that was absolutely crucial. Haslem hits a couple more of those shots, he draws the double team off Shaq, we lose.



> Originally posted by <b>speedythief</b>!
> 
> Hoffa did well for himself, too. He went into the game, played tough against Shaq, used his fouls, went to the stripe four times, and did it all with a swagger that brought a smile to my face. He looked relaxed tonight for some reason and it paid off. Four points in three minutes is pretty damn good efficiency!


Yup, I love this kid and love seeing him start to make everyone eat their words about him.

I don't think he is held out of games because Mitchell doesn't like him, I just think Sam is being very cautious with him. I would like to see more of Hoffa on a consistent basis, I am loving the kid (or should I say man, he's 24). He is the polar opposite of the rest of our bigs. He is everything our other bigs are not and can change the complexion of games when he sees even spot minutes like he did tonight. I liked seeing Hoffa and Bonner laying the wood all over Shaq tonight. I especially liked when Bonner sent Shaq to the foul in the second quarter.

Hoffa is the real deal.


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Numbed One</b>!
> 
> Yup, I love this kid and love seeing him start to make everyone eat their words about him.
> 
> ...


I mean Hoffa played good, but he didn't drop 20 & 10 or anything. I don't think any of the Hoffa haters are eating there words now. 

They will soon enough though, as soon as Araujo gets some more confidence from more playing time.. and should be starting by the end of this year.


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## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>hellbot</b>!
> 
> 
> I mean Hoffa played good, but he didn't drop 20 & 10 or anything. I don't think any of the Hoffa haters are eating there words now.
> ...


I said start to eat their words. This alone won't change their minds, but tonight he started... he planted the seeds for future success. A night like this banging with Shaq will do wonders for his confidence. And that is the only thing he is lacking to perform on a consistent basis IMO.

It may seem like I'm gushing, but I like the guy and can't see why almost everyone is on the Hoffa bashing train so early in the season. He hasn't really been given a chance to show much. Until tonight.


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## charlz (Jun 9, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>hellbot</b>!
> 
> 
> I mean Hoffa played good, but he didn't drop 20 & 10 or anything. I don't think any of the Hoffa haters are eating there words now.
> ...


*cough* - gulp *choke* - you may be right - I hope he does pan out I wish he does... but I doubt it.

anyhow I have to think the raps would be like 9-7 if donny did not go down. Also I have even more respect for D Wade - Onions on that kid - can't wait to see the guys tomorrow night in my stomping ground!


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

If you look at the FG's, the Heat made 34/80 with 3 threes for a total of 71points. The Raps made 32/80 with 7 threes for a total of 71 points. Exactly equal.

So the real difference in the game was the foul shooting and the horrible 3 point shooting for the Heat who shot 20% on 15 attempts. Eddie Jones, Wes Person, and DJones couldn't throw it in the ocean last night. And these were wide open looks as the Raps packed the paint.

DWade was not himself last night. Great stat line but he was not very aggressive until the end. Vince was playing 5 feet off of him for most of the game and Wade still blew by him 2 of the 3 times he bothered to drive in the first half. He stood around the perimeter a lot until he picked up his game in the second half.

Nice D by Vince at the very end. Lots of energy, which shouldn't have been a problem given he did nothing for the first 46 minutes of the game. But he just can't handle screens. Wade hits the 3ball when Vince starts to go under the screen and then gets the open 2 to tie the game when VC can't get over the screen. Its just about effort and determination. Same problem on D all year.

Another great game by Rose. 12 FTA's win the game for the Raps. Very efficient night.

Donny got pretty lucky with that O rebound at the end. Weird bounce caught the Heat player napping as it bounced out to Donny for the score. That bucket may have also saved the game from slipping away. And Rose saved Donny by being in the right place for that long rebound off his miss in the final seconds. Heat would have had a lot of time to win it or go to OT.

HUGE win for the Raps. Great way to start this roadtrip.

If Vince can rebound tonight against Orlando and put up a good game we could go 2-0 on the trip.

By the way, what was up with Mitchell not putting Hoffa back in the game. Why pull him in the second Q if he wasn't going to play the second half. As soon as he went out the heat get a dunk and an uncontested layup on the next two possessions.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

great win go raps and go marshall his play kept us this win great effort! good to see hoffa get minutes if only limited he did very well and i hope he keeps it up and makes mitchell have to play him! great way to start the road trip!!!!


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## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>lucky777s</b>!
> 
> By the way, what was up with Mitchell not putting Hoffa back in the game. Why pull him in the second Q if he wasn't going to play the second half. As soon as he went out the heat get a dunk and an uncontested layup on the next two possessions.


I wondered too... he had 4 more fouls to chop Shaq with, I would have loved to see it. 4 points in 3 mintutes, you can't say he wasn't getting the job done.


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## ABC (Nov 4, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Numbed One</b>!
> 
> 
> Yup, that was absolutely crucial. Haslem hits a couple more of those shots, he draws the double team off Shaq, we lose.
> ...


I can't stop myself from laughing so hard. Hoffa played 4mins and had 4 pts, so now he's the real deal :laugh: 

man, if Hoffa payed for 40 mins he have 40 pts! he be the hightest point getter in the League !


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## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>ABC</b>!
> 
> 
> I can't stop myself from laughing so hard. Hoffa played 4mins and had 4 pts, so now he's the real deal :laugh:
> ...


 

I'm not basing my judgement off last night alone, I have thought and said this for a while.

I don't expect anyone to believe or agree with me about Hoffa being the real deal, but he has shown he isn't the worthless scrub many make him out to be.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Hows about the post game huddle called by Vince, thought they said the man had no leadership


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