# Is Jabari Parker the safest bet in this draft?



## ChrisWoj (May 17, 2005)

I would like to make immediately clear: I am in no way saying that any comparison is based on playing style. It is based on potential impact to a team's success and overall perception of his caliber as a player.

I feel like Jabari Parker is a LOCK to be at the least a Carmelo type player - a clear cut superstar, but can't seem to be the number one on a championship team. That is his floor, in my eyes: Melo level impact.

With Andrew Wiggins I feel like the general consensus is a Jordan ceiling and an Iguodala/Deng level floor. With Embiid it is an Olajuwon ceiling and Oden floor.

Does anyone agree that Parker has the highest floor of the guys we're looking at as the likely top 3? 


Note: I am excluding Exum because my knowledge of his game has far too many gaps. I have no idea what he could be. Aside from anywhere from a foreign Magic to Darko. Which is about as wide a gap as you can get.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

I could swear he's 6'10 now (maybe it's the fat, but he looks like a hoss) and I don't think he will be able to defend SF's in the NBA (at least not consistently). He might be what Carmelo looks like now, but not as great of a scorer. He's got a great future in the league though. Not tank the whole season for, but that's another story.


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

ChrisWoj said:


> I would like to make immediately clear: I am in no way saying that any comparison is based on playing style. It is based on potential impact to a team's success and overall perception of his caliber as a player.
> 
> I feel like Jabari Parker is a LOCK to be at the least a Carmelo type player - a clear cut superstar, but can't seem to be the number one on a championship team. That is his floor, in my eyes: Melo level impact.
> 
> ...


Melo is a championship caliber number one option. There is no way in hades that Melo is Jabari Parker's floor.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

MemphisX said:


> Melo is a championship caliber number one option. There is no way in hades that Melo is Jabari Parker's floor.


I'm quoting this post since I couldn't double like it.


His _floor_ is Melo? His ****ing ceiling is Melo.

The guy just got bounced by Mercer. When did Melo get bumped out of the first round by ****ing Mercer?


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

R-Star said:


> I'm quoting this post since I couldn't double like it.
> 
> 
> His _floor_ is Melo? His ****ing ceiling is Melo.
> ...


Not just bounced out, but he was getting subbed out late because of his defense.


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

It's hard to say what Parker would look like playing with good guards. He had a bad game yesterday, but Duke's real problem is that they don't have any real size and their guards can't create anything. They aren't even any good at simple entry passes either. Anyone who watched that team knew that they were really vulnerable. It's probably the worst defensive Duke team I've ever seen.

At any rate I have only seen a couple of games this year where the rest of the team did a good job of getting the ball to Parker in areas where he could score.


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## ChrisWoj (May 17, 2005)

MemphisX said:


> Melo is a championship caliber number one option. There is no way in hades that Melo is Jabari Parker's floor.


I think that the debate will center more around what people think Melo is than what one thinks Jabari is, then, because of how I phrased it. Not the intended discussion. My point was Jabari's floor is a player who can lead teams to the playoffs, but no further as the number one option. I meant more his floor is what Melo has done.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

ChrisWoj said:


> I think that the debate will center more around what people think Melo is than what one thinks Jabari is, then, because of how I phrased it. Not the intended discussion. My point was Jabari's floor is a player who can lead teams to the playoffs, but no further as the number one option. I meant more his floor is what Melo has done.


Melo's been one of the leagues best scorers since being drafted, and is one of the best rebounders at his position.

You could say Parkers floor is a pre Heat Lebron as well then. Its a bad way to make the comparison.


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## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

Teams have been on 2+ year tank plans with this draft in mind. If this kid goes #1 and isn't a superstar I'm gonna laugh.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

To answer the question, no. I think Wiggins is a surer bet. His play over the last month has been stellar and he's shown tremendous growth and aggression with Embiid out. Who the hell is Parker going to guard in the NBA? Wiggins has a higher floor than Deng/Iguodala, although that's actually a pretty good comparison for what he'll be like defensively in the NBA. Wiggins is going to be a very good two way player, Parker will score some points but get lit up.

Embiid is in the discussion for highest ceiling, but can't be in this discussion because of his back issues. Highest ceilings are Wiggins, Embiid and Exum.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Adam said:


> Teams have been on 2+ year tank plans with this draft in mind. If this kid goes #1 and isn't a superstar I'm gonna laugh.


Wiggins will go #1. I've been saying that all along.

Every single time there's a super hyped guy, analysts almost seem _required_ to pull the "this other dude, he could go #1 instead."

No ones taking shit back Embiid first, that's for sure. Greg Oden and others made sure of that. 

And the only thing Parker has on Wiggins is being the safer bet. 

This is like when people were trying to hype Melo and the Darko in 03.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

R-Star said:


> Wiggins will go #1. I've been saying that all along.
> 
> Every single time there's a super hyped guy, analysts almost seem _required_ to pull the "this other dude, he could go #1 instead."
> 
> ...


I'm a big Embiid fan, but I agree. Wiggins is going #1 with Embiid's back issues. I think you'd be out of your mind to consider Parker over Wiggins.


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## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

Look, Parker's probably going to be very good, but even saying that his floor is Glenn Robinson might be underselling Big Dog a little bit. He'll absolutely be able to score the ball, but cranking out 20-point seasons year after year is a tall order, and he's not a lock to be able to guard either forward position at a high level. He's a fantastic prospect, but he's not an immediate franchise savior.


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## Nimreitz (May 13, 2003)

Can't believe I've come full circle on this because I don't really even like him as a prospect, but the safest bet and the only possible #1 pick you can make right now is Wiggins. If Deng is his floor, then that makes it even more imperative that you draft him because that's not bad, especially when the ceiling is Paul George. There are so many question marks around Randle, Parker, and Embiid that you can't justify drafting them ahead of Wiggins right now unless something drastically changes (Randle rises to the occasion and leads UK to the Final Four, Embiid comes back and his back issue was very minor).

Parker, as far as I see it, is the biggest risk because you know he can't play defense, and he's also very streaky. I don't see him as a sure fire Carmelo in the league, although certainly that's what he could end up being.


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## BlakeJesus (Feb 1, 2006)

Wiggins seems the safest to me.


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## roux (Jun 20, 2006)

I want Wiggins


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## EpicFailGuy (Mar 5, 2010)

I like how Wiggins plays off the ball a lot. I think he can do so much for whoever's lucky enough to call his name.


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## ChrisWoj (May 17, 2005)

I don't think I've ever made a thread while drunk and had it come off well. Haha.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

I don't think either Wiggins or Parker has any bust potential, as far as I can see they're the two safest picks on the board. Embiid's back injuries are definitely a red flag, and where Exum's concerned I've only seen highlight reels and that game against Spain in the U19s. So while I can see the potential I'm the first to admit I have no idea how it plays out at the next level. I don't see a lot of bust potential in Smart or Randle, either, but they don't have nearly the upside of Wiggins and Parker.


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## Ball (Mar 23, 2014)

Diable said:


> It's hard to say what Parker would look like playing with good guards. He had a bad game yesterday, but Duke's real problem is that they don't have any real size and their guards can't create anything. They aren't even any good at simple entry passes either. Anyone who watched that team knew that they were really vulnerable. It's probably the worst defensive Duke team I've ever seen.
> 
> At any rate I have only seen a couple of games this year where the rest of the team did a good job of getting the ball to Parker in areas where he could score.


One thing about "superstars" is that they don't have bad games. They might not be playing well, but they find a way to still contribute and be a role player. Lebron may have a bad night in terms of scoring 20, but he will make up for it with 8 rebounds or 7 assists. You see what I'm saying?



hobojoe said:


> To answer the question, no. I think Wiggins is a surer bet. His play over the last month has been stellar and he's shown tremendous growth and aggression with Embiid out. Who the hell is Parker going to guard in the NBA? Wiggins has a higher floor than Deng/Iguodala, although that's actually a pretty good comparison for what he'll be like defensively in the NBA. Wiggins is going to be a very good two way player, Parker will score some points but get lit up.
> 
> Embiid is in the discussion for highest ceiling, but can't be in this discussion because of his back issues. Highest ceilings are Wiggins, Embiid and Exum.


I haeve to agree. I think Wiggins should go number 1. The first time I saw the guy play I could have sworn he was playing just like a Lebron/KD/Kobe/Melo. A superstar. The kid has true talent, and I think he has potential to be one of the next greats. 

Nothing against Parker, he is a da-- good player, and I think he deserves a high pick. I just don't think he is the clear cut "Best" in the draft.


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## Najee (Apr 5, 2007)

Ball said:


> One thing about "superstars" is that they don't have bad games. They might not be playing well, but they find a way to still contribute and be a role player. Lebron may have a bad night in terms of scoring 20, but he will make up for it with 8 rebounds or 7 assists. You see what I'm saying?


Andrew Wiggins: 1-for-6 from the field, 4 points in Kansas' loss to Stanford in the second round of the NCAA tournament.


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## King Sancho Fantastic (Jul 19, 2005)

Parker reminds me more of Paul Pierce than Melo.


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## letsgoceltics (Aug 19, 2012)

Andrew Wiggins just had 4 points against Stanford. This class doesn't look as sexy as it did in the beginning of the year.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

King Sancho Fantastic said:


> Parker reminds me more of Paul Pierce than Melo.


I've been making this comparison for a while. He's like a 6'8" Pierce. Though he really needs to work on his conditioning.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

letsgoceltics said:


> Andrew Wiggins just had 4 points against Stanford. This class doesn't look as sexy as it did in the beginning of the year.


There are still multiple guys you'd be happy with at #1 in any given year. Which was always this draft's strength.


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## Nimreitz (May 13, 2003)

Ball said:


> One thing about "superstars" is that they don't have bad games. They might not be playing well, but they find a way to still contribute and be a role player. Lebron may have a bad night in terms of scoring 20, but he will make up for it with 8 rebounds or 7 assists. You see what I'm saying?


Didn't Paul George have like a 2 point game against the Bobcats this year?


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## Pyrex (Jan 14, 2014)

ChrisWoj said:


> I would like to make immediately clear: I am in no way saying that any comparison is based on playing style. It is based on potential impact to a team's success and overall perception of his caliber as a player.
> 
> I feel like Jabari Parker is a LOCK to be at the least a Carmelo type player - a clear cut superstar, but can't seem to be the number one on a championship team. That is his floor, in my eyes: Melo level impact.
> 
> ...


You're giving these draft picks WAAAAAAAY to much credit.


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## King Sancho Fantastic (Jul 19, 2005)

Jordan was held to 13 pts in his final college game and he fouled out.


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## Najee (Apr 5, 2007)

King Sancho Fantastic said:


> Jordan was held to 13 pts in his final college game and he fouled out.


Michael Jordan had foul trouble and sat out a good portion of the first half, then came back in the second and tried to do too much. 

Andrew Wiggins, on the other hand, was very passive. Three shots in the second half, none in the final six minutes. The game just reinforced some of the questions about him during a fairly inconsistent freshman season.


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## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

Najee said:


> Michael Jordan had foul trouble and sat out a good portion of the first half, then came back in the second and tried to do too much.
> 
> Andrew Wiggins, on the other hand, was very passive. Three shots in the second half, none in the final six minutes. The game just reinforced some of the questions about him during a fairly inconsistent freshman season.


MJ had just turned 21 at that time. Wiggins just turned 19. With two more years of college experience (the advantage MJ had on him), Wiggins would have been more aggressive.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Nimreitz said:


> Didn't Paul George have like a 2 point game against the Bobcats this year?


He had a game where he had 0 last year as well.


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## Flowsnakes (Apr 16, 2014)

I like Wiggins still, because the college game tends to hurt great athletic wings. I think more spacing, and obviously more development, Wiggins will be really good.


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## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

MemphisX said:


> Melo is a championship caliber number one option.


:raised_ey

It'd be interesting to see a poll on that.

Melo is an elite scorer. I'm not sure Parker will ever become that - to that level.


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## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

TM said:


> :raised_ey
> 
> It'd be interesting to see a poll on that.
> 
> Melo is an elite scorer. I'm not sure Parker will ever become that - to that level.


I think it's interesting that you would suggest, in the same post, that Melo may not be a real first option on offense but is also an elite offensive player.


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## Geaux Tigers (Apr 26, 2004)

You can compare Parker and Melo's games and see the similarities, but I think the real crux of the issue is the attitude. Parker doesn't seem to have the same attitude as Melo. I believe Parker to be a much better team player. So while they have similar games, the development and what they can mean to a team is entirely different.


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## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

Bogg said:


> I think it's interesting that you would suggest, in the same post, that Melo may not be a real first option on offense but is also an elite offensive player.


My fault. I thought we were talking about #1 player as in guy that could lead a team to a championship.

Forget elite offensive player. He and Durant are the best offensive players in world, IMO.


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## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

TM said:


> My fault. I thought we were talking about #1 player as in guy that could lead a team to a championship.
> 
> Forget elite offensive player. He and Durant are the best offensive players in world, IMO.


Well, if you put the right supporting cast around him, it stands to reason that he could be the top scorer on a title team. I think there's just a big sliding scale in regards to how "best" the best player on a title team is relative to his teammates. Lebron last year or Dirk in '11 is entirely different to the Celtics in '08 or some of the years the Spurs won it (to say nothing of Detroit, because they didn't have a traditional best player).


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## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

Bogg said:


> Well, if you put the right supporting cast around him, it stands to reason that he could be the top scorer on a title team. I think there's just a big sliding scale in regards to how "best" the best player on a title team is relative to his teammates. Lebron last year or Dirk in '11 is entirely different to the Celtics in '08 or some of the years the Spurs won it (to say nothing of Detroit, because they didn't have a traditional best player).


Haha yes, you're essentially right. There is a statistical chance Carmelo Anthony could win a championship as the top scorer on his team. At this point though, I'd take the field if that bet came up. Theoretically, I can't disagree with you. :cheers:


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## XxIrvingxX (Apr 23, 2012)

So apparently Wiggins is now the favorite to be drafted by Cleveland. 

Although this could just be the plain dealer being the plain dealer.


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## Chosen1 (Jun 9, 2014)

R-Star said:


> I'm quoting this post since I couldn't double like it.
> 
> 
> His _floor_ is Melo? His ****ing ceiling is Melo.
> ...


#FactsOnly


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

XxIrvingxX said:


> So apparently Wiggins is now the favorite to be drafted by Cleveland.
> 
> Although this could just be the plain dealer being the plain dealer.


It sort of makes sense if they think they can land James, as Wiggins would slide down to the SG spot and not have to worry about being the primary option. The real question would be could they land someone like Monroe to be the C to help with the LBJ sales pitch.

EDIT: I guess the _real_ question though is, with Philly reported to be all over Wiggins, would this be an indication of a #3 /#10 for #1 deal? Which, by implication, would seem to mean that the Cavs were going to chase after Love as a means of luring LBJ back.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

E.H. Munro said:


> It sort of makes sense if they think they can land James, as Wiggins would slide down to the SG spot and not have to worry about being the primary option. The real question would be could they land someone like Monroe to be the C to help with the LBJ sales pitch.
> 
> EDIT: I guess the _real_ question though is, with Philly reported to be all over Wiggins, would this be an indication of a [URL=http://www.basketballforum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=3]#3 [/URL] /#10 for #1 deal? Which, by implication, would seem to mean that the Cavs were going to chase after Love as a means of luring LBJ back.


Kyrie
Waiters
LBJ
Love
Embiid?

That would be a pretty sexy team. Would the #3 pick then be packaged with Waiters and/or Thompson for Love in that scenario?


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

I'm assuming the deal would be something along the lines of Waiters/Bennet/#3 for Love with the tenth pick going to use on someone like Harris or another 3 & D candidate while they chased after James in free agency and someone like Asik via AV's non-guaranteed deal.


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## XxIrvingxX (Apr 23, 2012)

XxIrvingxX said:


> So apparently Wiggins is now the favorite to be drafted by Cleveland.
> 
> Although this could just be the plain dealer being the plain dealer.


So I guess this really was the Plain Dealer being the Plain Dealer or their minds have changed, because now Parker is apparently the favorite to be drafted. 

Can someone please explain to me how Parker being drafted would be a good idea? Because I'm having a hard time seeing it.


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## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

XxIrvingxX said:


> So I guess this really was the Plain Dealer being the Plain Dealer or their minds have changed, because now Parker is apparently the favorite to be drafted.
> 
> Can someone please explain to me how Parker being drafted would be a good idea? Because I'm having a hard time seeing it.


Probably because they see Parker as the most NBA ready at this exact moment, which I don't think many people would argue. I don't like his fit for you guys, as I'm sure most don't, but were also not the ones making the selection.


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## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

bball2223 said:


> Probably because they see Parker as the most NBA ready at this exact moment, which I don't think many people would argue. I don't like his fit for you guys, as I'm sure most don't, but were also not the ones making the selection.


It's the Cavs. Watch them draft T.J. Warren.

:hibbert:


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## XxIrvingxX (Apr 23, 2012)

bball2223 said:


> Probably because they see Parker as the most NBA ready at this exact moment, which I don't think many people would argue. I don't like his fit for you guys, as I'm sure most don't, but were also not the ones making the selection.


I can't see how someone who plays the style of Parker could be the most NBA ready at this moment. What the **** happened to the days when defense was more valuable than offense?


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

Defense has never been more important for perimeter players.


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## XxIrvingxX (Apr 23, 2012)

Luke said:


> Defense has never been more important for perimeter players.


So you're saying you'd rather have an offensive player than a player who's great defensively and is good offensively? 

Yes, I know, not a very accurate comparison in this situation, but curious.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

XxIrvingxX said:


> So you're saying you'd rather have an offensive player than a player who's great defensively and is good offensively?
> 
> Yes, I know, not a very accurate comparison in this situation, but curious.


Huh


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## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

Parker > Wiggins.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Luke said:


> Defense has never been more important for perimeter players.


Please, by all means, back that up with a fact.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

R-Star said:


> Please, by all means, back that up with a fact.


Would you rather have George Gervin or Bruce Bowen?


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## Stanley Yelnats (Jun 19, 2014)

Luke said:


> Would you rather have George Gervin or Bruce Bowen?


Gervin was better defensively than Bowen offensively, bad analogy.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Luke said:


> Would you rather have George Gervin or Bruce Bowen?


Oh, well, with that analogy the point has been proven. 

I apologize.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

Stanley Yelnats said:


> Gervin was better defensively than Bowen offensively, bad analogy.


Would you rather have James Harden or Bruce Bowen?


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

R-Star said:


> Oh, well, with that analogy the point has been proven.
> 
> I apologize.


It's all good


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## Stanley Yelnats (Jun 19, 2014)

Luke said:


> Would you rather have James Harden or Bruce Bowen?


Lol better.


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

Parker showed up at the Bucks workout at 254lbs. No way I draft that dude #1 or #2 .


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## Stanley Yelnats (Jun 19, 2014)

MemphisX said:


> Parker showed up at the Bucks workout at 254lbs. No way I draft that dude #1 or #2 .


Was it a sloppy 250 or did he add some muscle? The dude is 6'8 I'd imagine you could still be pretty fit at 254.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

MemphisX said:


> Parker showed up at the Bucks workout at 254lbs. No way I draft that dude #1 or #2 .


Who do you replace him with though? Exum? Embiid?

With the Embiid injury I find it hard passing on Parker. I'd rather have to whip a fat ass into shape then hope a broken toy like Embiid somehow fixes himself.


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

R-Star said:


> Who do you replace him with though? Exum? Embiid?
> 
> With the Embiid injury I find it hard passing on Parker. I'd rather have to whip a fat ass into shape then hope a broken toy like Embiid somehow fixes himself.



I don't think Parker has a position. No way I want to try and have a SF the size of Kevin Love.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

MemphisX said:


> I don't think Parker has a position. No way I want to try and have a SF the size of Kevin Love.


I think he'll work as a 3/4. There's been plenty of tweeners who ended up finding a place. 

As much as I hate it, in today's NBA traditional positions are more malleable.


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## XxIrvingxX (Apr 23, 2012)

R-Star said:


> *Who do you replace him with though? Exum? Embiid?*
> 
> With the Embiid injury I find it hard passing on Parker. I'd rather have to whip a fat ass into shape then hope a broken toy like Embiid somehow fixes himself.


Um...Wiggins obviously. The fact I needed to point that out is...I don't know, but it's something.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

XxIrvingxX said:


> Um...Wiggins obviously. The fact I needed to point that out is...I don't know, but it's something.


Oh? Wiggins? I completely forgot about him. Hes supposed to be pretty good I think. I agree, he'll probably crack top 5. Maybe he'll even go first overall, which is why I didn't mention him in a scenario regarding the #2 pick.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

The rumour is that the Chicago kid wants to play close to home and prefers Milwaukee. If the Jazz want him they have to deal with the Cavs, and (maybe not so) coincidentally the Cavs have been leaking the story that he tanked the workout with them because he wants to play for the Bucks. I'm beginning to suspect that they really want Embiid but don't want him at #1 .


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## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

E.H. Munro said:


> The rumour is that the Chicago kid wants to play close to home and prefers Milwaukee. If the Jazz want him they have to deal with the Cavs, and (maybe not so) coincidentally the Cavs have been leaking the story that he tanked the workout with them because he wants to play for the Bucks. I'm beginning to suspect that they really want Embiid but don't want him at #1 .


For the sake of argument, assuming Embiid was still there, how much would you package with the sixth pick to move up with Cleveland?


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