# Why does everyone hate KOBE?



## kobesthegoat (Jul 14, 2005)

7 Allstar starts, 3 Nba Championships, 22.4, 5.1,4.4 career stats,....One rape accusation and a fight with shaq......does this make kobe the ulitimate bad guy. Can someone please tell me why kobe is hated so much...is it because of the shaq break up or becasue he's not social. I want to know since when is bad to be a quite guy, why does kobe have to be "selfish" or a "ballhog" kobe wants to win at all cost in my opinion and with the way our guys were playing last year he had every right to hold the ball and make the decisions, i think its time for people to stop blaming kobe and start looking at the reality that kobe cant do it himself, he didnt break the team up by himself and he cant take on all the blame by himself. right? :curse:


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## madskillz1_99 (Dec 5, 2004)

People hate you when you're on top, granted, he may have fallen off a BIT last year, but he is still the most dynamic/talented player in the NBA. MJ had tons of haters too.


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## The One (Jul 10, 2005)

Nope.


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## The One (Jul 10, 2005)

madskillz1_99 said:


> People hate you when you're on top, granted, he may have fallen off a BIT last year, but he is still the most dynamic/talented player in the NBA. MJ had tons of haters too.


Speak the Truth:cheers:


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## Unique (Apr 13, 2005)

Jealousy is a mother ****er.


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## Charlotte_______ (May 18, 2003)

IMO, Ill be honest I don't like Kobe. And its not cause hes good, I like MJ, Shaq, Duncan, McGrady, all of them. To me it seems Kobe tries too hard to be someone he isn't. He tries to hard to be the heir of Jordan when that will never happen, no one could do what Jordan did


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## madskillz1_99 (Dec 5, 2004)

Charlotte_______ said:


> IMO, Ill be honest I don't like Kobe. And its not cause hes good, I like MJ, Shaq, Duncan, McGrady, all of them. To me it seems Kobe tries too hard to be someone he isn't. He tries to hard to be the heir of Jordan when that will never happen, no one could do what Jordan did


Be gone, or at least come up with something a little more original.


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## casebeck22 (Jul 20, 2005)

The only thing I can think of is because the world has already seen Michael Jordan and don't want to see someone that keeps trying to be like him.

That is just what I think other might think, I don't mind Kobe.


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## Charlotte_______ (May 18, 2003)

madskillz1_99 said:


> Be gone, or at least come up with something a little more original.


What is your problem? The title of this thread is " Why does everyone hate Kobe?" I give my opinion, and you bash me. Thats typical. So because my reason isnt original it doesnt matter? That should reinforce the fact, if everyone says hes riding on Jordans coattails, there is probably a reason why thats being said. And ill give you a hint its not jealousy.


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## KoBe & BeN GoRdOn! (Aug 4, 2005)

Kobe is hated of his preliminary hearings(he never had a trial)


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## Pnack (Aug 23, 2005)

i think he's so hated because everyone thinks that he kicked shaq and phil out of L.A. but thats far from the truth read "The Last Season" by Phil Jackson and you will beleive me. Shaq was equally, if not more of a ***** during the season


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## kamego (Dec 29, 2003)

A lot of people hate Kobe because when an star is accused of rape, they get branded. It doesn't matter if it's true or not, they will be compared to Mike Tyson. People hate that type of guy.

I dislike Kobe because I believe he made a horrible move in forcing Shaq out. I don't hate Kobe or anything like that but your not going to catch me wearing a Kobe jersey lol


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Kobe is hated becauses hes an arrogant cocky ballhog. The whole "hated when you on top" is a weak, bull**** excuse. No one else in the league gets anywhere near as much hate, so your "reasoning" is out the window.


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## LamarButler (Apr 16, 2005)

> when that will never happen, no one could do what Jordan did


Thats a dumb statement. Don't you think people back then would say "nobody will ever do what (best player of the time) did). Players are always getting better. There are up and comers that may be as good as Jordan. Just look at Lebron James. He can score like crazy, rebound, pass really well, hes super athletic, all he needs is a better jumpshot( which he has improved dramatically) and better defense.


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## madskillz1_99 (Dec 5, 2004)

R-Star said:


> Kobe is hated becauses hes an arrogant cocky ballhog. The whole "hated when you on top" is a weak, bull**** excuse. No one else in the league gets anywhere near as much hate, so your "reasoning" is out the window.


there can only be one guy on top. :cheers:


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

madskillz1_99 said:


> there can only be one guy on top. :cheers:


That guy leads his team to the promise land, not to a lottery pick.


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## KB8SD (Oct 25, 2005)

I'm a big fan of Kobe myself and think he's the best player in the league right now.

But here is my view as to why people dislike and hate him so much:

First off before he came into the NBA and was a high school phenom people didnt like him because of the fact that he came from a above middle class family and that his father was a former NBA player.It may be unfair but since he grew up in Italy and then moved back to the US and grew up in Lower Merion PA outisde of Philly.People viewed him as a kid with a silver spoon in his mouth and that everything was handed to him.

Next when he annouced he was going straight to the NBA out of high school a lot people viewed him as being a young cocky arrogant kid.Remember the press conference when he was annoucing he was going pro he had the sunglasses on his head.

Also it no secret that after Jerry West did a private workout with him and the Lakers showed serious interest him and wanted him Kobe, his dad, and reps were telling the Hornets that they werent going to sign with them and that he'd hold out which worked out and setup the trade for Vlade Divac.

Now I cant remember what iujury Kobe suffered before his rookie season while playing in the summer pro league at the Long Beach Pyramid.I beleive it was a broken hand or a sprained ankle.

But anyways his first two years in the league Kobe was so eager to become a superstar and worked his butt off like nobody else on the team.But during his first two years he often played wreckless and out of control and was constantly making spectacular dunks, layups, and no look passes.Lets all be honest here Laker fans but like many high school phenoms Kobe, KG, TMAC, Lebron, etc... Kobe didnt have a very good jump shot or periemter game.Also during his first two years here Kobe was coming off the bench since Eddie Jones was the starting SG during the "Lake Show Era"(95 to 98) .During that time the feud with Shaq was starting to begin with Shaq calling him "Showboat" and their fight during a practice.Also during his rookie year Kobe took singer Brandy to his high school prom.Also during allstar weekend in the 97 allstar game Kobe won the slam dunk contest and in the rookie allstar game he had a game high 31 points and took the most shots, but I beleive the east rookie allstars won and Allen Iverson won MVP honors for the rookie allstar game.Also in the playoffs we all remember the series against the Utah Jazz where Kobe hoisted up 3 straight air balls before the Lakers were eliminated.The following year during the 98 allstar game when Kobe was voted in as a starter for the allstar game even though Kobe was still coming off the bench behind Eddie Jones and the Lakers.Kobe went head to head with MJ most of the game and pissed Karl Malone off when he waived him off when Malone would set picks for him during the game.Also during the 98 season Jerry West before the trade deadline sent Eddie Jones and Elden packing to the Hornets for Glen Rice and J.R. Reid.During the 98 playoffs the Lakers again were elminated again by the Jazz.The following year the 99 lockout season Del Harris was fired and Kurt Rambis took over as interim coach and the Lakers would again get swept out of playoffs by the eventual champs the Spurs.

The rest everyone remembers Phil came to LA in the summer of 99 for his 1st run with the Lakers.The Lakers moved from the fourm to Staples Center.The Lakers would start their last dynasty.Jerry West after the first champiosnship season during the 3 peat would step down and become a consultant.West saying that he could no longer deal with the stress and pressure of watching Laker games and the dynasty that he was responsible for creating.After the Lakers completed the 3 peat in 2002 the following season they would lose to the Spurs in the second round.During the off season Kobe would be charged with sexual assault in Colorado just a couple days later GP and the Mailman would sign as free agents to play for the Lakers.And the Lakers would end up making to the NBA Finals and would lose to the Detriot Pistons.


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## Bartholomew Hunt (Mar 4, 2003)

madskillz1_99 said:


> there can only be one guy on top. :cheers:


 And it definitely isn't Kobe.

People do not hate him because they are jealous. If that were the case, Tim Duncan would have hordes of haters. Kobe does rub off as cocky, which is part of what makes him such a great player. If you're not a Lakers fan, you're probably not going to like that.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

madskillz1_99 said:


> Be gone, or at least come up with something a little more original.



:laugh:

So I guess you'd prefer only Kobe fans responding? That would make for an interesting thread.

Me personally, I don't "hate" Kobe. I dislike Kobe as the person I perceive him to be. Obviously I don't know him personally. 

I respect his talents but I think Kobe is incredibly full of himself and to a fault. His arrogance and cockiness is what rubs people the wrong way.

Also, in regards to this board, I think Kobe's "fans" are catalysts for more hate ... some in particular. When you've got people constantly jocking a certain guy it will cause other people to hate on that player more just because they are getting annoyed by the jockers.

And I do think the Lakers being dominantly on top for a while also helped along some of the Kobe and Shaq hating. If the Spurs dominate for a couple more years, I wouldn't doubt it starting to happen to Timmy D as well.

:twocents:


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Bartholomew Hunt said:


> And it definitely isn't Kobe.
> 
> People do not hate him because they are jealous. If that were the case, Tim Duncan would have hordes of haters. Kobe does rub off as cocky, which is part of what makes him such a great player. If you're not a Lakers fan, you're probably not going to like that.



Good post. Thats my view as well.


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## KB8SD (Oct 25, 2005)

"People do not hate him because they are jealous".

Thats aruable because it's known fact that as great as MJ was during his time when he ruled the NBA that as much people cheered for MJ and thought that he was God there were also a lot people that hated him because he was so damn good.I myself was never a Jordan fan and hated the Bulls but at the same time I respected MJ's game.

Now with Kobe before the sexual assault charges there were a lot of people who were jealous and hated him because he was so good and recognized him as the best SG in the game.Keep in mind during the 3 peat years Lebron wasnt in the NBA yet and TMAC surely wasnt anywhere close to as Kobe was at that time and even now there is no comparison between him and TMAC.A good example of people hating Kobe because they were jealous of him and hated him because his game was so good was the 2001 Allstar game when Kobe won MVP honors and the crowd was booing him as Stern was handing him his trophy.It's true that the crowd was booing him because he doesnt recognize Philly as his hometown and because he grew up in Lower Merion but the also booed him because they also knew he was the best player.


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## DANNY (Aug 9, 2005)

Charlotte_______ said:


> IMO, Ill be honest I don't like Kobe. And its not cause hes good, I like MJ, Shaq, Duncan, McGrady, all of them. To me it seems Kobe tries too hard to be someone he isn't. He tries to hard to be the heir of Jordan when that will never happen, no one could do what Jordan did


stop TRYING to be a bobcat fan


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## DANNY (Aug 9, 2005)

if i were kobe bryant

i wouldnt give a **** if i were a cocky ballhogging mother****er

kobes got too much talent to give a **** about his other teammates

but the mans trying his best to get his team involved this year

give him props *****es

and stop hating cause you know hes too ****ing good


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## bluedawgalex (Aug 1, 2005)

dannyM said:


> if i were kobe bryant
> 
> i wouldnt give a **** if i were a cocky ballhogging mother****er
> 
> ...


couldnt have said it better myself!


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## LakerLunatic (Mar 1, 2005)

Jealous.


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## Bartholomew Hunt (Mar 4, 2003)

dannyM said:


> if i were kobe bryant
> 
> i wouldnt give a **** if i were a cocky ballhogging mother****er
> 
> ...


 You're right. He should just play 1 on 5.


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## Charlotte_______ (May 18, 2003)

dannyM said:


> stop TRYING to be a bobcat fan


Well lets see youve been here a total of what 3 maybe 4 months? Ive been with the Bobcats before they were the Bobcats. And what is seriously wrong with everyone who doesn't like my opinion? Its my opinion and your trying to prove it is wrong or something? Damn not everyone likes Kobe deal with it. Thats another reason why I don't like Kobe all of his fans thinks hes the greatest, and everyone is jealous of his talent. Hell no, people dont like him because, and please stay with me, im not saying he did any of this, but this is from the media. Raped a woman while he was married. Made Shaq want to leave. Just by that alone, makes me dislike him. If I had to choose now, Id take Duncan over Kobe in heartbeat.


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## Charlotte_______ (May 18, 2003)

Bartholomew Hunt said:


> And it definitely isn't Kobe.
> 
> People do not hate him because they are jealous. If that were the case, Tim Duncan would have hordes of haters. Kobe does rub off as cocky, which is part of what makes him such a great player. If you're not a Lakers fan, you're probably not going to like that.


Thank You. This describes me, Im not saying he isnt a great player. Just his attitude and past dont really amuse me.


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## Charlotte_______ (May 18, 2003)

LamarButler said:


> Thats a dumb statement. Don't you think people back then would say "nobody will ever do what (best player of the time) did). Players are always getting better. There are up and comers that may be as good as Jordan. Just look at Lebron James. He can score like crazy, rebound, pass really well, hes super athletic, all he needs is a better jumpshot( which he has improved dramatically) and better defense.


If by dumb you mean smart, then yes I agree. In Jordans era he was the greatest, and for that time period, he raised the NBA to another level. No one could ever do what Jordan did for the game of basketball as we know it, without him, theres no telling where the NBA might be. Dont get me wrong, LeBron is on his way to being better than Jordan, but Jordans impact on the game, was and will be far greater than any other players. Jordan will be recognized as the first.


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## Laker Superstar 34 (Aug 8, 2005)

Charlotte_______ said:


> If by dumb you mean smart, then yes I agree. In Jordans era he was the greatest, and for that time period, he raised the NBA to another level. No one could ever do what Jordan did for the game of basketball as we know it, without him, theres no telling where the NBA might be. Dont get me wrong, LeBron is on his way to being better than Jordan, but Jordans impact on the game, was and will be far greater than any other players. Jordan will be recognized as the first.


I could possibly make a good argument to this. There are some very talented international players that really could make the same difference. All you need is someone that is going to have better than Jordan talent and presto, you have the best in the game in your oppinion there. International talent has come a ways. Just look at Dirk, Manu, Tony, Pau, and many others and you have some serious talent. I'd say they are already there when it comes to the impact, but are getting close to the talent. They already have a mini Jordan in Manu. Manu's got the shot, defense, clutch mentality, the moves and everything but the overall skill of getting away with about anything. They are just a much better copy of Manu and a Jordan's way of getting calls going their way from having a player better than Jordan.


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## Charlotte_______ (May 18, 2003)

> All you need is someone that is going to have better than Jordan talent and presto, you have the best in the game in your oppinion there.


Its not as simple as it sounds



> I'd say they are already there when it comes to the impact, but are getting close to the talent.


I agree with the impact they have made, but not the talent.



> They already have a mini Jordan in Manu. Manu's got the shot


Comparing Manus "shot" with Jordans is like comparing Steve Nash shooting free throws compared to Bo Outlaw, there isnt one


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## NOODLESTYLE (Jan 20, 2005)

I think it's the fact that Kobe was in the media at such a young age. He caught everyone's eye since the Lakers were always on television, even now this upcoming season the Lakers are going to be on national television alot more than other teams who had better records the previous season. I don't think Kobe is hated as much as people think, Allen Iverson has recieved a lot of hate too including from the Philadelphia fans who he said himself. Kobe was just one of those guys that we all got to watch grow up.

But to say people hate him cuz he's cocky? I think Kobe level of arrogance isn't any different than any other player in the league or that of a celebrity...Do you all remember the 96 or was it 00' Olympics? when all the track stars did poses with the American flags and pissed off the whole world? Let's just face it America has a lot of egoes and the more your seen them on camera the more it enables people to criticize.

Anyways, the one player I think who probaly really didn't get the blame more than Kobe but should've and is probaly a lot more cocky than Kobe is SHAQ. He also bumped heads with former teammate/star Penny Hardaway in Orlando. SHAQ signed a huge contract in L.A. but was never a leader, he was such a dominate force but could never lead the team. Not only that all that money and u can't make free throws? and yes they count every time you take them. I know there's also been a lot of Shaq haters, but honestly I think hating Kobe is even easier now just cuz the Lakers are losing.


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## Laker Superstar 34 (Aug 8, 2005)

Manu's shot isn't as publicised as Jordan's was. That was only because of the fact of Jordan getting calls his way as well as the fact that he was much more of a clutch player than Manu. Manu is a clutch player but not when it comes to getting calls his way like Jordan or anybody like him, aka Kobe Bryant and others.

Also Charlotte, It could take a few years or maybe longer but a lot of players Internationally are finding out that it takes more than a set shot to make a better player. More of them are getting much better handles as well has hops. Manu has started the International players with pretty good hops. So in a way, it could be just that easy. All they need to think to do is copy Manu and do everything he does much better and the fact of getting the calls their way will fall into place. That's why I said it could take a few years though because you need someone that is willing to go out and idolize Manu and copy his game. With Sarunas out there, it could take a little longer.


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## Charlotte_______ (May 18, 2003)

Laker Superstar 34 said:


> Also Charlotte, It could take a few years or maybe longer but a lot of players Internationally are finding out that it takes more than a set shot to make a better player. More of them are getting much better handles as well has hops. Manu has started the International players with pretty good hops. So in a way, it could be just that easy. All they need to think to do is copy Manu and do everything he does much better and the fact of getting the calls their way will fall into place. That's why I said it could take a few years though because you need someone that is willing to go out and idolize Manu and copy his game. With Sarunas out there, it could take a little longer.


Yup, I agree 100%


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## kobesthegoat (Jul 14, 2005)

NOODLESTYLE said:


> Anyways, the one player I think who probaly really didn't get the blame more than Kobe but should've and is probaly a lot more cocky than Kobe is SHAQ. He also bumped heads with former teammate/star Penny Hardaway in Orlando. SHAQ signed a huge contract in L.A. but was never a leader, he was such a dominate force but could never lead the team. Not only that all that money and u can't make free throws? and yes they count every time you take them. I know there's also been a lot of Shaq haters, but honestly I think hating Kobe is even easier now just cuz the Lakers are losing.



i agree with that 100%


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## ChosenFEW (Jun 23, 2005)

i dont hate kobe,......he's my favorite/BEST player in the league


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## Bartholomew Hunt (Mar 4, 2003)

Laker Superstar 34 said:


> Manu's shot isn't as publicised as Jordan's was. That was only because of the fact of Jordan getting calls his way as well as the fact that he was much more of a clutch player than Manu. Manu is a clutch player but not when it comes to getting calls his way like Jordan or anybody like him, aka Kobe Bryant and others.
> 
> Also Charlotte, It could take a few years or maybe longer but a lot of players Internationally are finding out that it takes more than a set shot to make a better player. More of them are getting much better handles as well has hops. Manu has started the International players with pretty good hops. So in a way, it could be just that easy. All they need to think to do is copy Manu and do everything he does much better and the fact of getting the calls their way will fall into place. That's why I said it could take a few years though because you need someone that is willing to go out and idolize Manu and copy his game. With Sarunas out there, it could take a little longer.


 Not a bad post. But Manu gets plenty of calls. He is the flop artist in today's game.


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## DANNY (Aug 9, 2005)

Charlotte_______ said:


> Well lets see youve been here a total of what 3 maybe 4 months? Ive been with the Bobcats before they were the Bobcats. And what is seriously wrong with everyone who doesn't like my opinion? Its my opinion and your trying to prove it is wrong or something? Damn not everyone likes Kobe deal with it. Thats another reason why I don't like Kobe all of his fans thinks hes the greatest, and everyone is jealous of his talent. Hell no, people dont like him because, and please stay with me, im not saying he did any of this, but this is from the media. Raped a woman while he was married. Made Shaq want to leave. Just by that alone, makes me dislike him. If I had to choose now, Id take Duncan over Kobe in heartbeat.


ok youre a bobcat fan

but my OPINION is that youre not 

youre just trying to be one

just like kobes trying to be like mike


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## Laker Superstar 34 (Aug 8, 2005)

Bartholomew Hunt said:


> Not a bad post. But Manu gets plenty of calls. He is the flop artist in today's game.


At this point he's #2 and used to be #3. I thought Divac was #1 but now D-Fish took over that spot. The key difference to Divac and Fisher though was that Divac didn't really ever have outstanding defence, Fisher did. Oh yeah, does that mean I get a rep point? Just checking.


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## Pnack (Aug 23, 2005)

look guys kobe isnt hated because he's cocky. He's been a cocky little sob since his rookie year and the hate just came this past year. It all comes from the media. They made you think kobe kicked shaq and phil out of L.A. (which isnt true) and made you think he was a criminal. The media is just looking for a story..half this **** in there is bull


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## Charlotte_______ (May 18, 2003)

dannyM said:


> ok youre a bobcat fan
> 
> but my OPINION is that youre not
> 
> ...


I get your logic, but you would need a better argument.


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## LoyalBull (Jun 12, 2002)

I am one of the original "Kobe-haters".

And there are a variety of reasons and examples to cite when coming to that conclusion.

Oh sure it started off as simple dislike and graduated into full blown "can't standedness, hope he loses" etc.

The thing about Bryant is not so much the fakeness. While wholly evident for most people to see... a rational person realizes that VERY few people in entertainment (for thats what the NBA is) are genuine. In fact, "realness" is so rare, that it is often cherished (ala Iverson) even in the lack of many other human qualities.

More than anything about Bryant is the profound selfishness (both on and off the court) he has exhibited and the immensely unattractive sense of entitlement he seems to demand and that his apologists grant him.

Many were too busy proclaiming him the greatest player ever to notice that he wasn't even the best player on his team.

There are things that are admirable about Bryant. (willpower, talent) but those things become turnoffs in the ways that he has manifested them in the past.

There was the fiasco of his draft. Haters and apologists have different versions of his demands/threats etc. to become a Laker.

There was the voting him a starter of his first all star game (and his irreverance) when he wasn't even able to start on his own team.

There was the profound exploits of selfishness even in his acts of greatness. When he went on the 40 point scoring splurge... it became sad towards the end as it wasn't so much about good basketball, good shots or winning... but more about 'his streak'.

In the finals two years ago against the Pistons... his selfish play was so brutal to watch that one could only applaud the downfall of a HORRIFIC showing on the biggest stage as a display of "not playing the right way".

Then came the Shaq ordeal. And the skeptic in all this knows that Kobe had one foot in Clipperdom and the timing of Shaq's trade (RIGHT before the Kobe decision) had a TON to do with the horrible contracts and the nature of the deal that was returned for the big fella.

In and of it all, Kobe's personal and professional life demonstrate such a vastly disgusting display of self-focused direction that it is VERY VERY hard to cheer for it.

Kobe is talented... but how often do you hear the words "he doesn't make anyone better"? Why? Becuase (while the phrase is accurate or not) Kobe has seldom taken the responsibility that comes with greatness. 

While his words are basically the tag lines of the scripted answer, the actions are often contradictory to the verbage.

And people see through that.

Kobe is DETERMINED to win... as long as it is KOBE doing the winning.

Tex Winter himself has said that Kobe's biggest flaw is his drive to be the greatest player ever. That goal circumvents team, winning and everything else.

And in the end comes something most people have to realize...

This leauge has long been marketed on the personality of the players. Basketball (because of how few players are on the court) IS about personalities. 

And for all intents and purposes... Kobe's personality is unknown. Its a facade. And the actual actions speak so profoundly of self focus and profound selfishness... that in a leauge that worships the star and his personality... "realness" counts. 

Perception is often reality. Shaq (afterall) may be more selfish than Kobe is. But his personality is playful, his play is often giving. He empowers those lesser than him. People respect that.

All people have seen from Kobe is the statue that he has given them. And when its obvious that people can see through the BS... all they are left with are his actions. Both on and off the court.

And those actions are hardly exemplary. They are barely respectable. 

And since Kobe (until lately) hasn't allowed people in... all he had was his play (which was wonderful) and his perception of a perfect life. 

When the play faltered and the life nearly shattered... there was absolutely NOTHING left.




That said.

I hope Kobe has changed. 

I hope that he grows from what he has shown in the past becuase (if pointed in the right direction) he can become such a wonderful treat to watch and witness. 

One can sense (little by little) a changing of the cold demenor and steadfast scripted individual he once was.

Life has a way of slapping you down to earth if you are flying under your own self adoring steam... and Kobe had a LONG way to fall back down.

As much as his adoring apologists prematuring proclaimed his greatness... his haters were just as quick to decry his passing and jump the guy while he was down.



As an original hater I am happy to say I have hope for Kobe. I have long waited to see a Kobe that didn't chase the ball, have to be dribbling the ball. One that didn't think he had to be (demanded to be) mr. everything and take all of the accolades that went with it... because when you become "the man" you don't only get the accolades... but you get the knocks too.

Magic was no different, Jordan, Bird etc.

Kobe was unpropotionally hearalded for what he deserved... likewise he was unproportionally discredited for what he deserved.

The reality is... only Kobe can change that. And when you have left a 9 year history of self adoring selfish behavior in your wake... well... it takes awhile for people to warm back up to the idea of liking you again.

Kobe has the talent, the time and the ability to make those changes. To display characteristics (other than sheer ability) that will draw people to him.

Why has "everyone" hated Kobe so much? Probably becuase he has loved himself so much.

Im not talking ego... Im talking about manifested actions. 

Oh Im sure there are some that will jump on things in this post... some that will talk about his generosity and behind the scenes acts of giving... but therein lies the issue... perception is reality.

The only one that can change the perception is Kobe.


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## DANNY (Aug 9, 2005)

just admit it 

KOBE DESERVES SOME LOVE

cause hes ****in sexy


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

> but therein lies the issue... perception is reality.


No, reality is reality. Not many people know celebrities. Your list of "manifested actions" on the court that have had a negative impact are all debatable, especially considering the immense success the Lakers enjoyed during those times (the Lakers were 12-3 during the 40-pt streak). Off the court is a whole other story...which no one here (I think) knows about.


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## DANNY (Aug 9, 2005)

everyone jealous because kobes got a hot wife


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## aNgelo5 (Oct 24, 2005)

Damn I dunno, if everyone hates him but he is the reason why Shaq left the lakers :O


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## Toss2Moss (Nov 7, 2003)

aNgelo5 said:


> Damn I dunno, if everyone hates him but he is the reason why Shaq left the lakers :O


But did Kobe have control over Shaq's feelings? Shaq's a big boy and doesn't need Kobe making his decisions. Was Kobe supposed to say I'm sorry you don't like me as a team mate, I will play elsewhere? Shaq demanded a trade not Kobe. It's not Kobe's problem that Shaq didn't want to play with him anymore.

How come it's ok for Kobe to put up with Shaq but not ok for Shaq to put up with Kobe?


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## onelakerfan (Nov 11, 2004)

i hate kobe, he is the worst player in the laker history. Here is why...
*Kobe chased fat A$$, lazy shaq out of town
*Kobe chased the best coach out of town, wait his back
*Kobe is a me me me first guy, selfish who shoots the ball every time he gets it, he did that year 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004 we won 3 rings and 4 times to the finals, and he led the lakers in assists every year
*Kobe cheated on his wife, Jordan did not do that, magic did not do that, well 99.9% of the league does not do that, they are all Doug Christies.


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## King Sancho Fantastic (Jul 19, 2005)

Toss2Moss said:


> But did Kobe have control over Shaq's feelings? Shaq's a big boy and doesn't need Kobe making his decisions. Was Kobe supposed to say I'm sorry you don't like me as a team mate, I will play elsewhere? Shaq demanded a trade not Kobe. It's not Kobe's problem that Shaq didn't want to play with him anymore.
> 
> How come it's ok for Kobe to put up with Shaq but not ok for Shaq to put up with Kobe?


I never thought of it that way.


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## onelakerfan (Nov 11, 2004)

CubanLaker said:


> I never thought of it that way.



:boohoo: kobe for shaq


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## The Legion Lakers (Oct 27, 2005)

onelakerfan said:


> i hate kobe, he is the worst player in the laker history. Here is why...
> *Kobe chased fat A$$, lazy shaq out of town
> *Kobe chased the best coach out of town, wait his back
> *Kobe is a me me me first guy, selfish who shoots the ball every time he gets it, he did that year 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004 we won 3 rings and 4 times to the finals, and he led the lakers in assists every year
> *Kobe cheated on his wife, Jordan did not do that, magic did not do that, well 99.9% of the league does not do that, they are all Doug Christies.


funny post :biggrin:


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## duncan2k5 (Feb 27, 2005)

its laker fans that make us hate kobe more. the way thay always...ALWAYS make excuses for him. his air if arrogance is enough to make some ppl hate...the same way some ppl hate a lot of other players in the league. but other players have fans that admit when their player did something wrong. in the eyes of laker fans kobe is never wrong and that is annoying. he DID cause shaq to leave because:

1. shaq said if phil left...he would leave
2. phil and kobe and kobe and shaq didn't have a good relationship
3. kobe was nearing the end of his contract and was threatening to leave.
4. the lakers fired phil with the understanding that it may give kobe a reason to stay
5. kobe still checked out other teams...namely clippers and made them agree to play home games in another arena (ego).
6. after phil was fired shaq then got mad and declared a trade. i would too if i were he. he knew they perferred kobe...so it was like since phil left it would be him against the whole organization.
7. the day after shaq was traded, kobe signed back. NOT a coincidence. 

plus he rubs too many ppl who know him the wrong way for it to be everyone else. he is more concerned about his legacy than the team concept. he seems to have an agenda at almost everything he does (like when he didn't want to shoot in the sacramento game when phil and shaq was there). even the way he plays is suspect. he is either in pass mode or shoot mode...agenda agena agenda. stop making excuses for him. he made his bed, let him sleep in it


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## DANNY (Aug 9, 2005)

onelakerfan said:


> i hate kobe, he is the worst player in the laker history. Here is why...
> *Kobe chased fat A$$, lazy shaq out of town
> *Kobe chased the best coach out of town, wait his back
> *Kobe is a me me me first guy, selfish who shoots the ball every time he gets it, he did that year 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004 we won 3 rings and 4 times to the finals, and he led the lakers in assists every year
> *Kobe cheated on his wife, Jordan did not do that, magic did not do that, well 99.9% of the league does not do that, they are all Doug Christies.


how can you put the blame everything on kobe. wasnt it shaq who started asking for that ridiculous contract extension. it was more like shaq forcing himself out from LA. if kobes words chased shaq out of LA, damn that one fatass must be one sensitive fat *******. 

plus if everything you said was true, you should blame it on Dr. Buss for giving so much power to one player. but thats not the case

that third statement confuses me. hes selfish but he leds the lakers in assists every year? 
hes a "me me me first guy" player because hes a scorer. we're fortunate to have a efficient scorer like kobe. the guy can flat out score. why criticize him for what he does best.

you hate him because he cheated on his wife dude its his life he does what he wants 
hes a basketball player you dont hate him for what he does with his personal life
unless you knew him personally 
plus i bet theres a ****load of nba players cheating on their wifes you just dont hear about em cause we dont really give a **** cause theyre not as big named as kobe

as MJ said, basketball players are not role-models they're not perfect. 
as long as kobe gives us 25 ppg i'm happy and i'll love him as a basketball player.


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## Unique (Apr 13, 2005)

dannyM said:


> how can you put the blame everything on kobe. wasnt it shaq who started asking for that ridiculous contract extension. it was more like shaq forcing himself out from LA. if kobes words chased shaq out of LA, damn that one fatass must be one sensitivity fat *******.
> 
> plus if everything you said was true, you should blame it on Dr. Buss for giving so much power to one player. but thats not the case
> 
> ...



Burrrrrrrrrrn.


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## Bartholomew Hunt (Mar 4, 2003)

duncan2k5 said:


> he DID cause shaq to leave because:
> 
> 1. shaq said if phil left...he would leave


I think your argument ends there. That was Shaq's decision, not Kobe's.


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## Toss2Moss (Nov 7, 2003)

duncan2k5 said:


> plus he rubs too many ppl who know him the wrong way for it to be everyone else. he is more concerned about his legacy than the team concept. he seems to have an agenda at almost everything he does (like when he didn't want to shoot in the sacramento game when phil and shaq was there). even the way he plays is suspect. he is either in pass mode or shoot mode...agenda agena agenda. stop making excuses for him. he made his bed, let him sleep in it



Since you seem to know Kobe on a personal level, you think you could shoot an autograph my way? Typical haters turning on ESPN or reading a magazine and believing it's true. The media is hypnotizing isn't it?


It's not agenda agenda agenda. It's image image image, with Kobe.


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## The Legion Lakers (Oct 27, 2005)

dannyM said:


> how can you put the blame everything on kobe. wasnt it shaq who started asking for that ridiculous contract extension. it was more like shaq forcing himself out from LA. if kobes words chased shaq out of LA, damn that one fatass must be one sensitive fat *******.
> 
> plus if everything you said was true, you should blame it on Dr. Buss for giving so much power to one player. but thats not the case
> 
> ...



hey, relax, dannym... :biggrin: the fella was being ironic...can't you tell? :biggrin:


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## Bartholomew Hunt (Mar 4, 2003)

The Legion Lakers said:


> hey, relax, dannym... :biggrin: the fella was being ironic...can't you tell? :biggrin:


 :rofl:


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## Charlotte_______ (May 18, 2003)

dannyM said:


> how can you put the blame everything on kobe. wasnt it shaq who started asking for that ridiculous contract extension. it was more like shaq forcing himself out from LA. if kobes words chased shaq out of LA, damn that one fatass must be one sensitive fat *******.
> 
> plus if everything you said was true, you should blame it on Dr. Buss for giving so much power to one player. but thats not the case
> 
> ...



Did you not read his name or signature, even I knew to stay away from that one


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## duncan2k5 (Feb 27, 2005)

Bartholomew Hunt said:


> I think your argument ends there. That was Shaq's decision, not Kobe's.


see numbers 2, 3, and4. 

and why do laker fans always make the annoying escuse that we are listening to the media? the media is made up of ppl like me who have opinions like me...however they are in a position to relay it to the world. if we believe the media then a lot of us would be kobe fans...they were **edited** when he came in the league. so get a sharpener...you have no point. the numbered section of my previous post is based on face...the latter is opinion...you need the two to make a strong arguement and so I did. always sticking up for kobe and making excuses. its like you all dont wanna hear nothing bad about him, so you label ppl as being influenced by the media or being shaw fans...soo immature it makes me sick. i thought this board was better than lakersground.net in keeping it real, but it seems that you all are the same. the only laker fans see keep it real are the LAKER fans, not kobe fans...and most of the LAKER fans stem back from the showtime era and before...most of the kobe fans were born in the mid-late 80s. LAKER fans admit when kobe messes up...especially when it weighs negative on the team. kobe fans try to spin everyhing he does as being positive. if he slaps a teammate...they deserve it. if he gets mad and kicks something down...its a secret plot between him and phil to motivate the rest of the team...spare me. another thing that ANNOYS me is when laker fans don't admit that he SUCKED compared to shaq in the finals vs detroit. shaq was dominating them while kobe was trying to prove to the media that he can score at will against tayshawn...thus shooting a blistering 38% from the feild. taking jumpshot after jumpshot. even ginobili played better than him vs detroit. thats because manu has a better basketball IQ than kobe. he has average basketball IQ out of the top 5 guards. there is Lebron, wade, kobe-tmac, then A.I. lebron and wade are more efficient than kobe is. kobe passes a lot in mid-shot...thats a no-no...so he gets it picked...resulting in 4.1 turnovers per game. not even t-mac averaged that ever in his career on his own team and he has had more assists than kobe. well i was just venting...bash now


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## Bartholomew Hunt (Mar 4, 2003)

duncan2k5 said:


> see numbers 2, 3, and4.
> 
> and why do laker fans always make the annoying escuse that we are listening to the media? the media is made up of ppl like me who have opinions like me...however they are in a position to relay it to the world. if we believe the media then a lot of us would be kobe fans...they were sucking his nut when he came in the league. so get a sharpener...you have no point. the numbered section of my previous post is based on face...the latter is opinion...you need the two to make a strong arguement and so I did. always sticking up for kobe and making excuses. its like you all dont wanna hear nothing bad about him, so you label ppl as being influenced by the media or being shaw fans...soo immature it makes me sick. i thought this board was better than lakersground.net in keeping it real, but it seems that you all are the same. the only laker fans see keep it real are the LAKER fans, not kobe fans...and most of the LAKER fans stem back from the showtime era and before...most of the kobe fans were born in the mid-late 80s. LAKER fans admit when kobe messes up...especially when it weighs negative on the team. kobe fans try to spin everyhing he does as being positive. if he slaps a teammate...they deserve it. if he gets mad and kicks something down...its a secret plot between him and phil to motivate the rest of the team...spare me. another thing that ANNOYS me is when laker fans don't admit that he SUCKED compared to shaq in the finals vs detroit. shaq was dominating them while kobe was trying to prove to the media that he can score at will against tayshawn...thus shooting a blistering 38% from the feild. taking jumpshot after jumpshot. even ginobili played better than him vs detroit. thats because manu has a better basketball IQ than kobe. he has average basketball IQ out of the top 5 guards. there is Lebron, wade, kobe-tmac, then A.I. lebron and wade are more efficient than kobe is. kobe passes a lot in mid-shot...thats a no-no...so he gets it picked...resulting in 4.1 turnovers per game. not even t-mac averaged that ever in his career on his own team and he has had more assists than kobe. well i was just venting...bash now


 Feel better? :laugh:

You have to cut us some slack. We are nowhere near as homerish as LG.


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## onelakerfan (Nov 11, 2004)

dannyM said:


> how can you put the blame everything on kobe. wasnt it shaq who started asking for that ridiculous contract extension. it was more like shaq forcing himself out from LA. if kobes words chased shaq out of LA, damn that one fatass must be one sensitive fat *******.
> 
> plus if everything you said was true, you should blame it on Dr. Buss for giving so much power to one player. but thats not the case
> 
> ...


 :rotf: if there was a suicidal happy face i would have it here, i like this kid


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

duncan2k5 said:


> the media is made up of ppl like me who have opinions like me


Yes, and like the opinion of the media, it's completely misinformed and ultimately worthless. But don't let me stop you.


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## DANNY (Aug 9, 2005)

The Legion Lakers said:


> hey, relax, dannym... :biggrin: the fella was being ironic...can't you tell? :biggrin:


not really i just read what was written on someones quote
i didnt read the whole thing
but you know i love kobes game too much i felt like writing that ****


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## King Sancho Fantastic (Jul 19, 2005)

duncan2k5 said:


> 1. shaq said if phil left...he would leave
> 2. phil and kobe and kobe and shaq didn't have a good relationship
> 3. kobe was nearing the end of his contract and was threatening to leave.
> 4. the lakers fired phil with the understanding that it may give kobe a reason to stay
> ...


1. What does this have to do with Kobe?
2. Stating the obvious
3. Wouldnt you if you worked hard every preseason to come ready to play, and a lazy, overweight 
egomaniac still got more respect from the organization than you did. 
4. Kobe didnt stay because *Phil* left, Kobe stayed because *Shaq* left. I dont think 
Kobe would have left if Phil stayed. It obvious now that Kobe didnt hate Phil as much as 
everyone makes it seem or vice versa, because Phil is back. 
5. Umm Last time I checked, dont most free agents do that? I.E. check out who has the best 
offer. Didnt Shaq do the same thing when hes was in Orlando? Didnt Ray Allen do that this 
year? I dont see you clownin them? So why the hate on Kobe? 
6 So sacrificing the opportunity to play with a superstar guard as part of a champoinship calibur 
tandem because the management "prefers" the other player is something you approve of? Whos 
got the bigger ego now? Please! Shaq just wanted to be "the man" and when the organization 
said no he cried about it and demanded a trade. With the exception of the Detriot series, Kobe 
carried that team through the whole season and the playoffs. It was Kobes team, Shaq just got 
all the credit for it. Shaq is disloyal. He knew damn well that if he stayed, Kobe would 
have walked, so why didnt he just stay and force Kobe to leave? Because he knew that without 
Kobe, he would have been exposed. The Lakers would not have had the money to bring in a star 
to compliment Shaq and we all know that Shaq cant do it alone. So what does he do? He forces 
a trade to Miami to play with a budding young superstar in Wade, and blames his departure on 
Kobe. 
7. Thank God he did!


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## DANNY (Aug 9, 2005)

lol i didnt even see your name.. i just saw what was written
would of been better if you were a laker hating clip or kings fan


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## The One (Jul 10, 2005)

Here's is the story (It's a long one)

In 1996, the Lakers signed Shaq and Kobe. The first thought was to have Kobe and Shaq start that year but after training camp they realized that Kobe still needed some help so they chose to develope him on the bench. During that time Shaq became the Big deal of the Lakers. in the 1998 Kobe finaly got a starting role and in that season impressed the Lakers organization. He impressed them soo much that they were already talking about the Lakers furture with kobe during his second starting season(99-00) Shaq did not like this. He was suppoesed to be the only talk of the town and now this kid who only started for two years is starting to get more attention from the Management than he was. That was the start of the on going fued. What kept it going was Kobe's attitude towards the offense and Shaq childness and jealousy. Ultimately Kobe was ok from 2000 through 2002 because he was winning championships but Kobe started to not feel comfortable when he thought that Shaq was purposely keeping him under Shaq be being called "Little Brother" instead of just "brother". kobe then realized Shaq's work ethic when he did not watch his weight and milked injuries. And worse, when they lost to the spurs, he did not blame himself at all. He blamed everybody else though. Right then Kobe was thinking about leaving. Kobe's creditablity took a huge hit when he got accused of rape. This affected Kobe more tha we know becuase Kobe knew that he could go to jail for 20 years. Kobe decide to shut himself out from the world(and the team) which made him errctic and emotionaly explosive. During that time Shaq was deeply angured by the fact that Kobe told his business to the police. even though Shaq had three years left on his contract, he wanted to know now if Shaq was the future of the Lakers or if Kobe was. The best way to find out to him was to ask or demand an exstension. They did not give it to him which stengthen his loath of kobe even more. During that "Last Season" Kobe's emtional problems angured Phil soo much that he told Mitch that he wants Kobe gone or he will leave. Even though Kobe and Phil worked out their problems after the allstar break. Mitch and Buss wasn't sure of there relationship and they knew they wanted Kobe to stay. So at the end of the season(A bad loss to the pistons) They did not ask Phil to come back so he left. That was the last straw for Shaq becasue then he knew absolutly that they wanted Kobe moe than Him. Shaq demanded a trade because he could not play in a place where he is not the main focul point and next to a player whom he can't trust(remeber Kobe told his business to the police). Now Shaq is in miami where he is idolized completly and his with a partner who appearently doen't care which whole he is to Shaq. Kobe is not a loser in this deal either. Kobe now has his team(*Not* exactly what he wanting) and shaq's beloved coach Phil whom Shaq is still missing.

I think that should cover it. It goes from 1996 through 2004


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## HeinzGuderian (Jun 29, 2004)

I don't like Kobe because he's a rapist.


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## Ron Mexico (Feb 14, 2004)

unorigninal message board geeks who follow the crowd and who were secretly closet Lakers fans- thats why they hate him


he wasnt convicted of rape

he broke up the lakers laugh:- why is that a reason to hate kobe, do you like the fact they were handing your teams beat downs)

still jealous he has more rings then their favorite players

also jealous come playoff time he actually steps on the court and actually plays well in big games, but their favorite player chokes


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## Toss2Moss (Nov 7, 2003)

duncan2k5 said:


> see numbers 2, 3, and4.
> so you label ppl as being influenced by the media or being shaw fans...soo immature it makes me sick.


You say this, then you continue on to label Laker fans. Are you trying to call yourself immature? Keep up with your hypocritical posts, I find them amusing....


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## Laker Superstar 34 (Aug 8, 2005)

The One's post of how it happened explained it quite clearly.

This is what I think: The media made it out to be Kobe's fault but I really think this was Shaq's doing. Shaq likes the attention of being possibly the best big man ever to play the game. As soon as the Lakers were thinking about going to a new "Showtime" era he cracked. He didn't want Kobe to be the focal point of the offense. He wanted to be the "Jordan" of the team while Kobe was the "Pippen". Shaq demaded an extension and then the orginization who wanted to go "Showtime" wanted to give Kobe the reins so Shaq demanded a trade in response. They gave him the trade and got the perfect SF to go with Bryant to help Phil bring on a combo of the Showtime and 90's Bulls eras.

Also, anyone notice something, They are really bringing in a perfect combo of the 90's Bulls and 80's Lakers. Bynum probably always idolized Kareem and wanted to learn the sky hook and the Lakers saw that and brought him in through the draft. Kobe would be the man as far as fulfilling Jordan's role. They brought in Odom in the Shaq trade because of the fact he had Pippen like qualities. Kwame might be the James Worthy or the Horace Grant or even the Bill Cartwright or maybe the Luc Longley. Aaron Mckie could be the Ron Harper or Smush could fit in as the John Paxon or Steve Kerr. The whole team is being molded into a guard's team and the 80's Lakers and 90's Bulls together is the perfect combo.


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## Laker Superstar 34 (Aug 8, 2005)

So in fact, Shaq was the whole problem because he knew that the organization was going in a different direction, even after winning 3 titles. They wanted to go back to the type of team that dominated the 80's and 90's, a guard's team. Magic in the 80's with a little of point-forward action by Larry Bird and Jordan's Bulls.


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## HeinzGuderian (Jun 29, 2004)

Ron Mexico said:


> he wasnt convicted of rape


Right, and OJ really was innocent.


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## tatahbenitez (Jun 18, 2004)

The One said:


> Here's is the story (It's a long one)
> 
> In 1996, the Lakers signed Shaq and Kobe. The first thought was to have Kobe and Shaq start that year but after training camp they realized that Kobe still needed some help so they chose to develope him on the bench. During that time Shaq became the Big deal of the Lakers. in the 1998 Kobe finaly got a starting role and in that season impressed the Lakers organization. He impressed them soo much that they were already talking about the Lakers furture with kobe during his second starting season(99-00) Shaq did not like this. He was suppoesed to be the only talk of the town and now this kid who only started for two years is starting to get more attention from the Management than he was. That was the start of the on going fued. What kept it going was Kobe's attitude towards the offense and Shaq childness and jealousy. Ultimately Kobe was ok from 2000 through 2002 because he was winning championships but Kobe started to not feel comfortable when he thought that Shaq was purposely keeping him under Shaq be being called "Little Brother" instead of just "brother". kobe then realized Shaq's work ethic when he did not watch his weight and milked injuries. And worse, when they lost to the spurs, he did not blame himself at all. He blamed everybody else though. Right then Kobe was thinking about leaving. Kobe's creditablity took a huge hit when he got accused of rape. This affected Kobe more tha we know becuase Kobe knew that he could go to jail for 20 years. Kobe decide to shut himself out from the world(and the team) which made him errctic and emotionaly explosive. During that time Shaq was deeply angured by the fact that Kobe told his business to the police. even though Shaq had three years left on his contract, he wanted to know now if Shaq was the future of the Lakers or if Kobe was. The best way to find out to him was to ask or demand an exstension. They did not give it to him which stengthen his loath of kobe even more. During that "Last Season" Kobe's emtional problems angured Phil soo much that he told Mitch that he wants Kobe gone or he will leave. Even though Kobe and Phil worked out their problems after the allstar break. Mitch and Buss wasn't sure of there relationship and they knew they wanted Kobe to stay. So at the end of the season(A bad loss to the pistons) They did not ask Phil to come back so he left. That was the last straw for Shaq becasue then he knew absolutly that they wanted Kobe moe than Him. Shaq demanded a trade because he could not play in a place where he is not the main focul point and next to a player whom he can't trust(remeber Kobe told his business to the police). Now Shaq is in miami where he is idolized completly and his with a partner who appearently doen't care which whole he is to Shaq. Kobe is not a loser in this deal either. Kobe now has his team(*Not* exactly what he wanting) and shaq's beloved coach Phil whom Shaq is still missing.
> 
> I think that should cover it. It goes from 1996 through 2004


Nice little fairy tale, The One. There are some problems with your "story".

First of all, when Kobe and Shaq were acquired in 1996 Shaq was the only one who was going to start. Kobe, though talented, was just 18 yrs old, never played a game above high school, and Eddie Jones was already the starting SG. There was no way Kobe was going to start. Everyone who followed the Lakers knew that.

Secondly, it goes without saying that Kobe would have taken over the Lakers sooner or later, but it was not during the 1999-2000 season. If you saw the Lakers regularly at that time, you would know that Kobe was still rough around the edges and was only 21 yrs old. Shaq was at his prime and was the best center (if not the best player) in the league. Kobe was showing signs of becoming one of the greats, but he was still growing playing wise as well as emotionally. There was no way the Lakers organization would give the reigns to Kobe at that time or in the near future.

Thirdly, you're assuming Shaq was jealous of Kobe from the very beginning and didn't want Kobe to take over and was already mad at the organization during the 2000 season because they wanted Kobe to be the focal point. Did you ever see The Lakers play during the 1999-2000 season? Shaq was the anchor of that team and was the anchor for that team for 4 seasons after that. Why would The Lakers do a drastic change like that at that time? That would have been disasterous. Heck, look at what happened when they did it last year!!! Kobe wasn't ready last year either and had to learn some hard lessons.

Like most Kobe fans, you try to twist what happened during the Shaq/Kobe/Phil days and make Kobe totally blameless....Kobe didn't make Shaq leave. It was Shaq's jealousy. Phil wasn't really mad a Kobe when he wrote the book because he is back coaching the Lakers. Kobe is a perfect player who doesn't make any trouble on the team.
You better lower your dosage, The One, because I don't think you're thinking straight.


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## King Sancho Fantastic (Jul 19, 2005)

HeinzGuderian said:


> Right, and OJ really was innocent.


Yeah and no person accused of rape has ever been innocent. Have you ever heard of the term Golddigger? Its not just a song by Kanye people.


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## King Sancho Fantastic (Jul 19, 2005)

tatahbenitez said:


> Nice little fairy tale, The One. There are some problems with your "story".
> 
> First of all, when Kobe and Shaq were acquired in 1996 Shaq was the only one who was going to start. Kobe, though talented, was just 18 yrs old, never played a game above high school, and Eddie Jones was already the starting SG. There was no way Kobe was going to start. Everyone who followed the Lakers knew that.
> 
> ...


Do you put any blame on Shaq?


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## tatahbenitez (Jun 18, 2004)

CubanLaker said:


> Do you put any blame on Shaq?


I put blame on Kobe, Buss, Shaq, Phil, and Mitch (though Kupchak was just a puppet of Buss and whatever opinion he had probably will never be known).


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## LoyalBull (Jun 12, 2002)

EHL said:


> No, reality is reality. Not many people know celebrities. Your list of "manifested actions" on the court that have had a negative impact are all debatable, especially considering the immense success the Lakers enjoyed during those times (the Lakers were 12-3 during the 40-pt streak). Off the court is a whole other story...which no one here (I think) knows about.


This is about the poorest retort I could have expected...

if 'reality is reality" then there are no answers to the question posed.

"why does everyone hate Kobe"?

Becuase their perception is their reality.

To suggest otherwise is blatantly stupid.

The only reason the sky is "blue" is because your perception tells you so. Somewhere else someone may know what you think is "blue" as "green"... does the sky cease to be?

The assertion that "reality is reality" and that no one should 'hate' him 'cause they don't know' means that you shoudn't also "like" him becuase you don't know.

Sorry EHL, but perception is reality when people form their opinions (hence the subject of the thread) regarding things.

My post itself gave light to that. But the reason Kobe gets so much hate... is the perception people have of his actions and play. Do they know him personally? Do we know George Bush personally? The Pope? No, but we form opinions based on our perceptions.

And that "hate" takes on a very real form in the way we cheer (or dis) said player. As such... those perceptions VERY much are reality. Because reality (as it is) would not exsist (in its current form) independent of said actions (marketability, general public opinion) based on people's perceptions.

Perception forms reality. To suggest otherwise, ESPECIALLY in a thread designed to illicit responses based on perceptions is shortsighted.

If you wanted to make a point... you would have to say that the "hating" doesn't exsist... becuase the perceptions which illicit the opinions don't exsist.

Tragically common sense would prove that (along with your point) to be false.


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## Pnack (Aug 23, 2005)

wow readin that was so intense i forgot wat the topic was :hurl:


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## King Sancho Fantastic (Jul 19, 2005)

This is why Shaq hates Kobe. :biggrin: 




Christmas here we come!


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## Laker Superstar 34 (Aug 8, 2005)

CubanLaker said:


> This is why Shaq hates Kobe. :biggrin:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


LOL....That's Funny!


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## The One (Jul 10, 2005)

tatahbenitez said:


> Nice little fairy tale, The One. There are some problems with your "story".
> 
> First of all, when Kobe and Shaq were acquired in 1996 Shaq was the only one who was going to start. Kobe, though talented, was just 18 yrs old, never played a game above high school, and Eddie Jones was already the starting SG. There was no way Kobe was going to start. Everyone who followed the Lakers knew that.
> 
> ...


I guess you read into it too much because I never said that Kobe was blameless. I just wrote the story which you can claerly see that kobe took some part of the breakup.
In the first two paragraphs of your respounse you are right, In 1996 kobe wasn't planned to start and most of the "behind the scenes" situation of the Lakers during the 99-00 season has some assumption in it. But my point of my statement was started when I got to the 2002-2003 season. The main thing that I was concerned was how people still only blame kobe for the break-up when everybody was involved, infact the blame should go in this order: Buss, Shaq, Phil and then Kobe. 

Above anything else, *Buss* wanted to keep Kobe even back in 2000 when Phil suggested trading him(which I did forget to mention in my first post). As far as I could tell, Shaq wanted to stay in L.A. , but Mitch wasn't to happy with the fact that he was demanded to exstend his contract so the "okay" answer wasn't given. *Shaq's* (most likely) motive was to find out at that moment who's side the organization was on, which was either he or Kobe. I'm pretty sure that Mitch was* not* chosing sides when he did not give Shaq's exstension right then but that's probably how Shaq felt. During that same year *Kobe* was in and out of court meetings. That stress caused a lot of mood swings that the team had to tolerate. At one point cause *Phil* to tell Mitch that he has had it and he will not come back if *Kobe* is here. Kobe and Phil worked out there problem but there was not that much proof of (_*Phil's Book*_ did not help either) coherence between them both. when the season ended again all that was on Buss's mind was to get Kobe to resign. They decide to go in another direction in playing style so they let Phil go. That made Shaq mad because he now feels that #1: The coach that he felt that he will only play for is gone and #2: he's here playing with a teamate that he can not trust (he told his business to the police) and that is the main focal point of the lakers future. So *Shaq demands* a trade (He could have choose to stay. He had two years left ).

In Conclusion...
The person that should be blamed the most is* Buss* because his love for *kobe* caused him to get rid of *Phil* prematurely which caused *shaq* to demand a trade. The reason why Shaq is part of the blame because he still had a choice to stay with the Lakers for the last two years. HE WAS NOT FORCED OUT. and because he never made a commitment to keep in shape. If he was the Shaq of old they would have worked something out because he would still be valuable to the Lakers championships (remeber, the lakers did not win one for two years with him). Phil is part of the blame because he put in the organization's mind that he and kobe can't work together(even though he and kobe worked out their differences) and since Kobe is the future to *Buss*, they went in another direction with the coach.* Kobe* takes part of the blame because most of the times the Shaq and Kobe fights were just feuds. Now Shaq has no respect and trust for *kobe* becasue he told Shaq's business to the police. Also kobe's moods (which was caused be the whole rape conflict) at one point angured Phil and we know what happend next.


I hope this helps with people trying to understand the breakup.


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## LoyalBull (Jun 12, 2002)

The One,

I aggree with your sentiment that ultimately the "blame" (if any exsists) resides ultimately with Buss.

That said, the problem Kobe finds himself facing with his perception is not that he had issues (which are inevitable it seems) but that he was the common denominator in MOST of the laker's issues over the last couple years.

Be it Shaq. Or Phil. Or Karl. Or the triangle. Or the rape case. OR...

There was one thing in the issues of the team that kept rearing its head. 

That was Kobe and his actions.

One would hardly fault a man for defending his wife's honor... that said... when you have enough issues with people... another issue looks like more of the same.

Im sure we could all explain that 'others' were involved in each case and mutiple parties hold responsiblity... however, the common factor in each equation was 8.


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## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

Bartholomew Hunt said:


> You're right. He should just play 1 on 5.



He did... Last season. :biggrin:


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## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

LoyalBull said:


> I am one of the original "Kobe-haters".
> 
> And there are a variety of reasons and examples to cite when coming to that conclusion.
> 
> ...



Good post. I don't agree with all the flaws that you percieve, but I do like it. I believe Kobe is guilty of trying to be to much. I think he really believed that entering last season he could bring the Lakers to the playoffs, and maybe more all by himself as long as others worked around him like he wanted them to do. 

The loss I think was the ultimate slap and showed Kobe that he mortal in the NBA world and that all the greats needed a team. Jordon was amazing.. But he needed his team. Everyone needs a team. Magic subtract Kareem and you'd probably not have any titles. They all needed each other.

Kobe I really believe knows this now and will do what it takes to win. He has seemingly so far (I know its only preseason) followed everything Phil has asked him to do. Phil requested him go in a cruise control for many of the games to allow his team to get more of a feel for the game and what not. I think it's already showing that Kobe is trying to change not just for the media percetion of himself, but because he really has seen the light.

I might just be a Kobe jocker, but I really believe that.


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## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

aNgelo5 said:


> Damn I dunno, if everyone hates him but he is the reason why Shaq left the lakers :O



Not true. If Buss would have given Shaq the contract Shaq wanted, he would have stayed. However, Buss said recently he wasn't going to sign Shaq for more than three years because of how out of Shape Shaq was durning the last season.

If that would have Happened, Kobe probably would have become a Clipper.


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

LoyalBull said:


> The One,
> 
> I aggree with your sentiment that ultimately the "blame" (if any exsists) resides ultimately with Buss.
> 
> ...


I don't agree. In fact, this is just one more of the "Kobe broke the Lakers" bandwaggoner posts around.

Yeah, blame it on Kobe. Blame it on the guy who worked his butt off every year to improve his game. Who had furious work-outs on the offseason so he could help his team... The guy who DID save the Lakers in close game stuations over and over again...

"Common denominator" to what? To being alienated by Shaq's "it's my team" diatribes, when he quit on the team for a month or so so he could have surgery "on company time"? to not being able to understand how Shaq justwouldn't work in his game and seemed to balloon uo every off-season?

Phil had troubles with Jordan. Phil had troubles with Kobe. and for the same reasons: two hungry, perfection-seeking players who felt that Phil's system was cramping their possibilities...

Exactly what is Kobe to blame for? Sure, he is egotistical. Sure, he is moody and introverted. Sure, he is not a leader.
But blaming Kobe for getting fed up with Shaq and his antics? Who wouldn't be?


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## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

duncan2k5 said:


> 1. shaq said if phil left...he would leave
> 2. phil and kobe and kobe and shaq didn't have a good relationship
> 3. kobe was nearing the end of his contract and was threatening to leave.
> 4. the lakers fired phil with the understanding that it may give kobe a reason to stay
> ...



What I love about this is some people are pissed off that Kobe threatened to go to a different team, when Shaq actually DID go to a different team. After he scremed into the Television Camera "Give me my money", durning contract negoitions. No one cares though, because the guy is funny when he talks to reporters. As long as your funny, your ok.. Kobe is evil because he doesn't make people laugh in interviews. Your a sheep if you think Shaq left because of Phil. Although it might have helped his decision, he said numours times they were not willing to pay him what he was worth so he was going to go to a team that "would". Ironically, that team didnt even pay him what he was worth by his standards, probably because Shaq is no longer worth that kind of contract.

Phil WROTE A BOOK about the internal affairs of the locker room of the last season. That is a NO-NO by most sports fans, because we all believe that what stays in the locker room remains in the locker room.. Then you and the rest get made because Kobe wants Phil gone? If some dickhead spewed all my dirty laundry in a book and made money off of it, I'd want the sucker gone to reguardless if its true or not, because theres supposed to be a trust issue when talking about Coach and player. And no im not saying Kobe hasn't done similar no-no's when discussing personal information IE pay off people like Shaq, or Malone-gate. 

Kobe Didn't want to play with Shaq by his own admission? Thats his choice. If the Lakers felt that investing less money in a player that had a good 10 years left in him vs a player than in three years might not even be able to play half a quater, thats the choice management made. Basketball is a business, and Buss thought a better investment in the long run would be Bryant.


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## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

HeinzGuderian said:


> I don't like Kobe because he's a rapist.



Yeah, thats why the trial ended so fast after the Kobe's lawyers got the judge to agree on introducing evidence of her past. Such as the other two times she claimed to be raped. Or when she spent a few different vacations in a mental instituion....

Or why there were two and some reported three different mens seamen in her pantys all within a 12 hour peroid.

Or why she was so tramatized after the rape she finished her shift and bragged to friends that night about having sex with Bryant.

She sounds creadible, i'd even put her up for surpreme court justice.


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

LoyalBull said:


> This is about the poorest retort I could have expected...
> 
> if 'reality is reality" then there are no answers to the question posed.
> 
> ...


Now you're getting it. If you can't accept that people's perceptions of reality can be inaccurate or distorted, there's no point in discussing any of this further. Talk to an anthropologist and discuss the various ways people look at the world, specifically contrasting emic and etic viewpoints. It's pretty clear to anyone who knows anything about how humans view reality that perception=reality doesn't mean anything other than stating the blatantly obvious. Unless you were simply saying that perception=reality no matter how misinformed that perception is. Which I would certainly agree with, as it applies to all subject matters in life. 



> To suggest otherwise is blatantly stupid.


Haha, the mod who decries insults making the insults. Shocking. :laugh:



> The only reason the sky is "blue" is because your perception tells you so. Somewhere else someone may know what you think is "blue" as "green"... does the sky cease to be?


This isn't provable science we're talking about, we're talking about human behavior. So unless you want a lecture in why the sky is blue, stick to the topic. 



> The assertion that "reality is reality" and that no one should 'hate' him 'cause they don't know' means that you shoudn't also "like" him becuase you don't know.


You don't HAVE to have any opinion of him or any other players. You can choose to like him for his game, no matter how misinformed you may be. You can choose to like him for his personality, no matter how misinformed you may be. In the end, the *reason* people may like or dislike Kobe may be because perception=reality, but it doesn't really answer the underlying question of whether it's justified. 



> Sorry EHL, but perception is reality when people form their opinions (hence the subject of the thread) regarding things.
> 
> My post itself gave light to that. But the reason Kobe gets so much hate... is the perception people have of his actions and play. Do they know him personally? Do we know George Bush personally? The Pope? No, but we form opinions based on our perceptions.
> 
> ...


You're missing the point. We're talking about human behavior, which as of 2005 is not a predictable, exact science the way matematics are or certain sciences are. Bush went to war, there is absolutely no way you can prove that he did not take this country to war because he in fact did it. That's undeniably true. What's not cold, hard solid fact is that Kobe is good person, or a bad person, or a smart person. I couldn't honestly tell you those things, about any player in the NBA, in terms of their off-court intelligence at least. I've formed some opinion about their basketball skills though. 



> If you wanted to make a point... you would have to say that the "hating" doesn't exsist... becuase the perceptions which illicit the opinions don't exsist.


Eh, no. 



> Tragically common sense would prove that (along with your point) to be false.


Difference is, you missed the point.


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

LoyalBull said:


> Im sure we could all explain that 'others' were involved in each case and mutiple parties hold responsiblity... however, the common factor in each equation was 8.


It's just unfortunate to read posts like these. 

Jerry Buss said in several interviews last year and right after the Shaq trade that the main reason Shaq wasn't brought back was because of his weight and conditioning, combined with the contract he was asking for. This is what got him traded according to Jerry Buss. Was Kobe the "common factor" in Shaq's eating habits? Conditioning routines? Did Kobe tell Shaq to ask Buss for more money? No. So was Kobe the common factor in all the events that led to the breakup? Clearly not, that is if you are informed.

It's just sad that you tell the story like you actually know it, when all this information has been available for months now and you _still_ can't get it right. Oh well.

EDIT: Oh, and it's not just Jerry Buss' word about why he got traded. Phil Jackson said in his book that Shaq's consistent weight and conditioning problems were problems throughout his tenure with the Lakers. Many other independent sources have verified this. Oh, and of course, anyone who watched him in 2002-2003 could see with their own two eyes that he was extremely overweight for an NBA player.


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## KillWill (Jul 1, 2003)

the only person who can really settle this is kobe himself. it cant be denied, that no matter how great jordan was, he still has his detractors. he too had off the court issues. he too at times had on court problems with teamates and coaches. it was competeing and winning at the highest level that trumped these issues, however. and what shouldn't be overlooked is that *success breeds contempt*. kobe has had, and is in a great position to have, great personal and team accomplishments. its almost as bad as bonds. *being an anti-fan is still being a fan*. hating kobe is on par with loving him because youre all still watchin. youre all still following his every move so you can rip him for it later. and if you arent, than what leg do you have to stand on? are you relying on what someone else saw? what sombody else said? what people hate is that kobe is a killer on the court, b/c if he was playing in your town for your squad i bet it would be a different story.


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## DANNY (Aug 9, 2005)

lets end this with

KOBES THE GREATEST BASKETBALL PLAYER IN THE NBA TODAY


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## madskillz1_99 (Dec 5, 2004)

dannyM said:


> lets end this with
> 
> KOBES THE GREATEST BASKETBALL PLAYER IN THE NBA TODAY


Correct.


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## duncan2k5 (Feb 27, 2005)

CDRacingZX6R said:


> What I love about this is some people are pissed off that Kobe threatened to go to a different team, when Shaq actually DID go to a different team. After he scremed into the Television Camera "Give me my money", durning contract negoitions. No one cares though, because the guy is funny when he talks to reporters. As long as your funny, your ok.. Kobe is evil because he doesn't make people laugh in interviews. Your a sheep if you think Shaq left because of Phil. Although it might have helped his decision, he said numours times they were not willing to pay him what he was worth so he was going to go to a team that "would". Ironically, that team didnt even pay him what he was worth by his standards, probably because Shaq is no longer worth that kind of contract.
> 
> *Phil WROTE A BOOK about the internal affairs of the locker room of the last season. That is a NO-NO by most sports fans, because we all believe that what stays in the locker room remains in the locker room.. Then you and the rest get made because Kobe wants Phil gone? If some dickhead spewed all my dirty laundry in a book and made money off of it, I'd want the sucker gone to reguardless if its true or not, because theres supposed to be a trust issue when talking about Coach and player. * And no im not saying Kobe hasn't done similar no-no's when discussing personal information IE pay off people like Shaq, or Malone-gate.
> 
> Kobe Didn't want to play with Shaq by his own admission? Thats his choice. If the Lakers felt that investing less money in a player that had a good 10 years left in him vs a player than in three years might not even be able to play half a quater, thats the choice management made. Basketball is a business, and Buss thought a better investment in the long run would be Bryant.



he wrote the book AFTER he got fired...nice try tho...kobe is the main person to blame because if he didn't pressure management to let Phil go by threatening to sign with the clippers...all peices would still be in place. phil would still be there, so shaq would have been there. kobe has some serious ego issues. making the clippers agree to play in an arena closer to his home...who does he think he is? even in phil's book he talks about instances where kobe's attitude and ego gets a bit crazy. but go ahead and deny it though...because doint that changes the reality.


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## King Sancho Fantastic (Jul 19, 2005)

duncan2k5 said:


> he wrote the book AFTER he got fired...nice try tho...


.

Wrong.. he wrote the book during his tenure as coach because hes been quoted as saying that it was kind of a "diary" of sorts about his tenure as the coach. It was only _published_ after he got fired. Nice try though...


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

^ Yup. Plus Phil himself has said, in interviews AND in his book, that he doesn't believe Kobe tried to get him fired. Get it right duncan't2k5.


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## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

duncan2k5 said:


> he wrote the book AFTER he got fired...nice try tho...kobe is the main person to blame because if he didn't pressure management to let Phil go by threatening to sign with the clippers...all peices would still be in place. phil would still be there, so shaq would have been there. kobe has some serious ego issues. making the clippers agree to play in an arena closer to his home...who does he think he is? even in phil's book he talks about instances where kobe's attitude and ego gets a bit crazy. but go ahead and deny it though...because doint that changes the reality.



Actually you are wrong.. He wrote the book as a diary throughout the entire season. He also said he had intentions of trying to get it published no matter what happened in the offseason. Although he thought it was more than likely he might take a year off or even retire.

The rest of the post is pretty funny though.


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## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

EHL said:


> ^ Yup. Plus Phil himself has said, in interviews AND in his book, that he doesn't believe Kobe tried to get him fired. Get it right duncan't2k5.



EHL your right on that as well. But your probably wasting your time. People believe whatever they want to believe as long as it benifits themselves.


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## DANNY (Aug 9, 2005)

:curse: 

lets end this with

KOBES THE GREATEST BASKETBALL PLAYER IN THE NBA TODAY


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## KillWill (Jul 1, 2003)

:cheers:


dannyM said:


> :curse:
> 
> lets end this with
> 
> KOBES THE GREATEST BASKETBALL PLAYER IN THE NBA TODAY


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## The One (Jul 10, 2005)

CDRacingZX6R said:


> EHL your right on that as well. But your probably wasting your time. People believe whatever they want to believe as long as it benifits themselves.


yep.


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## tatahbenitez (Jun 18, 2004)

The One said:


> I guess you read into it too much because I never said that Kobe was blameless. I just wrote the story which you can claerly see that kobe took some part of the breakup.
> In the first two paragraphs of your respounse you are right, In 1996 kobe wasn't planned to start and most of the "behind the scenes" situation of the Lakers during the 99-00 season has some assumption in it. But my point of my statement was started when I got to the 2002-2003 season. The main thing that I was concerned was how people still only blame kobe for the break-up when everybody was involved, infact the blame should go in this order: Buss, Shaq, Phil and then Kobe.
> 
> Above anything else, *Buss* wanted to keep Kobe even back in 2000 when Phil suggested trading him(which I did forget to mention in my first post). As far as I could tell, Shaq wanted to stay in L.A. , but Mitch wasn't to happy with the fact that he was demanded to exstend his contract so the "okay" answer wasn't given. *Shaq's* (most likely) motive was to find out at that moment who's side the organization was on, which was either he or Kobe. I'm pretty sure that Mitch was* not* chosing sides when he did not give Shaq's exstension right then but that's probably how Shaq felt. During that same year *Kobe* was in and out of court meetings. That stress caused a lot of mood swings that the team had to tolerate. At one point cause *Phil* to tell Mitch that he has had it and he will not come back if *Kobe* is here. Kobe and Phil worked out there problem but there was not that much proof of (_*Phil's Book*_ did not help either) coherence between them both. when the season ended again all that was on Buss's mind was to get Kobe to resign. They decide to go in another direction in playing style so they let Phil go. That made Shaq mad because he now feels that #1: The coach that he felt that he will only play for is gone and #2: he's here playing with a teamate that he can not trust (he told his business to the police) and that is the main focal point of the lakers future. So *Shaq demands* a trade (He could have choose to stay. He had two years left ).
> ...


Thanks for clarifying on your original statement. I still may not agree on some of your opinions and conclusions, especially on the level of blame (or lack of blame) you put on Kobe and how "HE (Shaq) WAS NOT FORCED OUT", but I respect what you are trying to accomplish.

As a longtime Laker fan, I hope Kobe will have matured enough to grow as a player as well as a person.


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## KB8SD (Oct 25, 2005)

I think LA Times Columnist JA Adande said it best about Kobe's current Image:

"People in the city of Los Angeles and Lakers fans are willing to forgive him for what happened in Colorado but he's blamed and they wont forgive him in the role he played in the dismantling of the previous dynasty".


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## duncan2k5 (Feb 27, 2005)

you guys are wrong wrong wong. he told reporters that he was keeping accounts to publish after the season...but no one knew DURING the season that he was writing it...and surely no one knew the details...so that could not have possibly been a factor in kobe's decision to allow the lakers to let phil go....nice try though...i like the spirit...stick up for my man no matter what bad traits he may have...no matter how much i would hate him if he was just a regular kid on campus with the same attitude...nice...im so glad the spur fans i know don't ride duncan's jock like that...i would hate him too.


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## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

duncan2k5 said:


> you guys are wrong wrong wong. he told reporters that he was keeping accounts to publish after the season...but no one knew DURING the season that he was writing it...and surely no one knew the details...so that could not have possibly been a factor in kobe's decision to allow the lakers to let phil go....nice try though...i like the spirit...stick up for my man no matter what bad traits he may have...no matter how much i would hate him if he was just a regular kid on campus with the same attitude...nice...im so glad the spur fans i know don't ride duncan's jock like that...i would hate him too.



:rofl:


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## King Sancho Fantastic (Jul 19, 2005)

duncan2k5 said:


> you guys are wrong wrong wong. he told reporters that he was keeping accounts to publish after the season...but no one knew DURING the season that he was writing it...and surely no one knew the details...so that could not have possibly been a factor in kobe's decision to allow the lakers to let phil go....nice try though...i like the spirit...stick up for my man no matter what bad traits he may have...no matter how much i would hate him if he was just a regular kid on campus with the same attitude...nice...im so glad the spur fans i know don't ride duncan's jock like that...i would hate him too.


 1st of all, it wasnt Kobe's decision to make, it was Buss'. A lot of posters on these boards claim that Kobe wants to be like MJ SOoo bad, so why would he want a to get rid of a coach that got MJ all of his rings and got Kobe 3? The only coach other, than Coach K, that he really respects. Also, why would he accept him back? Im sure your gonna say that Kobe and Phil reunited because Kobe figured out that he couldnt carry a team all by himself and that he needed help and a coach to lead him, but I will bet you a million dollars that if you gave Kobe the option to keep Phil in LA and get rid of Shaq, he would have taken it in a heartbeat. It wasnt Phil that Kobe disliked, it was Shaq.

Link 


Gray: How much of the malignment of Kobe was due to you and what you said in the book and people felt it can become open season because his former coach felt that way?



Jackson: I don't know, because if you really read the book you saw the last 40 games -- 35 games -- of the season we really connected and the playoffs we really had a great working relationship. And basically I say that in the book a number of times. 

But just the one comment where he's "uncoachable" ... I think was the outstanding thing that jumped out of that book. 

It was a diary. People forget that it was a day-to-day diary, a journal -- that's what I call it. I think girls keep diaries. Men keep journals. Anyway, in this journal when you make daily impressions and you're feeling the frustration of what was going on, and granted I think we were working against each other at the time.

And working towards a goal really freed us up and we were working very well together ... so we do know that aspect of our lives very well.



Gray: So are you saying it was just a momentary feeling that you felt Kobe was uncoachable, or was that something that became pervasive as the course of time went on that led you to that and that's how you basically felt when you left? 



Jackson: No. In fact, when I left, Kobe and I had quite an exit meeting together which we very much talked about the season, how we had this aspect of a month or so going through this conflict where a lot of things were problematic -- coachability, my feelings, how we resolved it, how happy I was were able to resolve it, the fact that we got to the championship and didn't win it, how disappointing that was. 

But under all the duress he was under that year, I wanted to let him know how remarkable I thought he had played and we had a hug and a goodbye. 



And you telling me that KOBE got rid of Phil? Please.


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## KillWill (Jul 1, 2003)

cant beat a direct quote. unless you want to call phil a liar too.


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## el_Diablo (May 15, 2003)

dannyM said:


> :curse:
> 
> lets end this with
> 
> KOBES THE GREATEST BASKETBALL PLAYER IN THE NBA TODAY


one reason for the level of hatred that kobe gets is posts like this. and that is a fact.


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## KillWill (Jul 1, 2003)

el_Diablo said:


> one reason for the level of hatred that kobe gets is posts like this. and that is a fact.


why does this bother you so much? the slight chance that it's true? i mean everyone has "their guy". take it with a grain of salt. say something positive about your guy. ppg. turnover to assist ratio, whatever floats your boat. i worry for the health of people like you in the likely event that kobe continues his *historic* assent in the mythos of the nba.


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

duncan2k5 said:


> you guys are wrong wrong wong. he told reporters that he was keeping accounts to publish after the season...but no one knew DURING the season that he was writing it...and surely no one knew the details...so that could not have possibly been a factor in kobe's decision to allow the lakers to let phil go....nice try though...i like the spirit...stick up for my man no matter what bad traits he may have...no matter how much i would hate him if he was just a regular kid on campus with the same attitude...nice...im so glad the spur fans i know don't ride duncan's jock like that...i would hate him too.


LMAO!


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

^ Did I mention how misinformed that post was? LMAO.


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## DANNY (Aug 9, 2005)

el_Diablo said:


> one reason for the level of hatred that kobe gets is posts like this. and that is a fact.


hate me


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## duncan2k5 (Feb 27, 2005)

phil said in his book that kobe went up to him and said he would not resign if shaq was still on the lakers...and laker fans insist that he didn't chase shaq out...whether directly or indirectly...kobe WAS the reason for shaq's departure


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

duncan2k5 said:


> phil said in his book that kobe went up to him and said he would not resign if shaq was still on the lakers...


Nope, that's not what was said. And you never read the book.



> and laker fans insist that he didn't chase shaq out...whether directly or indirectly...kobe WAS the reason for shaq's departure


Wrong again. Also, your non-response regarding your misinformed baloney about people not knowing Phil was writing the book during the season is understandable. We all know what's up.


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## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

EHL said:


> Nope, that's not what was said. And you never read the book.
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong again. Also, your non-response regarding your misinformed baloney about people not knowing Phil was writing the book during the season is understandable. We all know what's up.



Yeah, it so happens I've read it.. Duncan mind telling us what page it's on because for the life of me I can't seem to find it. 

I love when trolls make up crap to support their points, just like Dynasty Raider used to do. Now that Dynasty dont post in this forum anymore I gotta change my qoute.


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## duncan2k5 (Feb 27, 2005)

even ESPN magazine says it in the article about phil and Kobe. "When Jackson revealed in his book 'The Last Season', that kobe told him he would not re-sign with the Lakers unless they moved Shaquille O'neal..." Phil and Kobe did the photoshoot for the article...so that adds to its credibility. Plus it doesn's take a Genius to know that. if you are telling me kobe would still be a laker of Shaq remained you would be lying to yourself in an attempt to "prove" me wrong. and whats wrong with those quotes? can a loser dominate? i've never seen a dominant loser. and Amare is NOT dominant. just because he can score 26 points per game doesn't spell dominance. he grabs 8 rebounds per game and doesn't play defense...thats sad. know your game son


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## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

duncan2k5 said:


> even ESPN magazine says it in the article about phil and Kobe. "When Jackson revealed in his book 'The Last Season', that kobe told him he would not re-sign with the Lakers unless they moved Shaquille O'neal..." Phil and Kobe did the photoshoot for the article...so that adds to its credibility. Plus it doesn's take a Genius to know that. if you are telling me kobe would still be a laker of Shaq remained you would be lying to yourself in an attempt to "prove" me wrong. and whats wrong with those quotes? can a loser dominate? i've never seen a dominant loser. and Amare is NOT dominant. just because he can score 26 points per game doesn't spell dominance. he grabs 8 rebounds per game and doesn't play defense...thats sad. know your game son



:laugh:


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## KillWill (Jul 1, 2003)

duncan2k5 said:


> phil said in his book that kobe went up to him and said he would not resign if shaq was still on the lakers...and laker fans insist that he didn't chase shaq out...whether directly or indirectly...kobe WAS the reason for shaq's departure



its being reported on hoopsboardshype.com that i've insisted on your departure


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## Toss2Moss (Nov 7, 2003)

duncan2k5 said:


> even ESPN magazine says it in the article about phil and Kobe. "When Jackson revealed in his book 'The Last Season', that kobe told him he would not re-sign with the Lakers unless they moved Shaquille O'neal..." Phil and Kobe did the photoshoot for the article...so that adds to its credibility. Plus it doesn's take a Genius to know that. if you are telling me kobe would still be a laker of Shaq remained you would be lying to yourself in an attempt to "prove" me wrong. and whats wrong with those quotes? can a loser dominate? i've never seen a dominant loser. and Amare is NOT dominant. just because he can score 26 points per game doesn't spell dominance. he grabs 8 rebounds per game and doesn't play defense...thats sad. know your game son


LOL WTF.....

I try to look away and skip this guy's posts. But it's like watching a trainwreck, I can't look away. :eek8:


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## Unique (Apr 13, 2005)

duncan2k5 said:


> even ESPN magazine says it in the article about phil and Kobe. "When Jackson revealed in his book 'The Last Season', that kobe told him he would not re-sign with the Lakers unless they moved Shaquille O'neal..." Phil and Kobe did the photoshoot for the article...so that adds to its credibility. Plus it doesn's take a Genius to know that. if you are telling me kobe would still be a laker of Shaq remained you would be lying to yourself in an attempt to "prove" me wrong. and whats wrong with those quotes? can a loser dominate? i've never seen a dominant loser. and Amare is NOT dominant. just because he can score 26 points per game doesn't spell dominance. he grabs 8 rebounds per game and doesn't play defense...thats sad. know your game son


Why are you doing this to yourself man...


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## DANNY (Aug 9, 2005)

i think duncan2k is an entertainer

he cant possibly be serious right?

:eek8: 

youre a funny man duncan2k so heres a toast :cheers: 

you beat me, your post are more whack than mine


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

duncan2k5 said:


> even ESPN magazine says it in the article about phil and Kobe. "When Jackson revealed in his book 'The Last Season', that kobe told him he would not re-sign with the Lakers unless they moved Shaquille O'neal..." Phil and Kobe did the photoshoot for the article...so that adds to its credibility. Plus it doesn's take a Genius to know that. if you are telling me kobe would still be a laker of Shaq remained you would be lying to yourself in an attempt to "prove" me wrong. and whats wrong with those quotes? can a loser dominate? i've never seen a dominant loser. and Amare is NOT dominant. just because he can score 26 points per game doesn't spell dominance. he grabs 8 rebounds per game and doesn't play defense...thats sad. know your game son


You've been beaten kid, take it like a man.


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## chromekilla (Aug 21, 2005)

Why do people hate kobe hmmm i don't know he's alright in my book.If he did rape that girl then he should be punished.As if kg,shaq,tim duncan,ai,lbj did any crimes they should be punished.Anyone that does a crime should be punished regardles of social status.


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## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

Toss2Moss said:


> LOL WTF.....
> 
> I try to look away and skip this guy's posts. But it's like watching a trainwreck, I can't look away. :eek8:



:rotf:


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## MitchMatch (Jul 20, 2004)

For Numerous Reasons:

1) Is extremely cocky.
2) Doesn't have his own personality.
3) Tries to be like Jordan..and has virtually admitted to it before. And I don't mean just basing your game off Mike's..I mean literally trying to be like Mike. He studied the guys interviews for christ sakes.
4) He was forced down people's throats since he came into the league.
5) He's extremely selfish, and rarely plays team ball.
6) Drove off one of the greatest coaches ever, and the best center to ever play the game.
7) He is a (no masked cursing)
8) Taddle taled on a teammate while being question for a rap case.
9) Potentially raping a underage girl.
10) Cheated on his wife.
11) Had some ugly adidas kicks back in the day.
12) Represents the bandwagoning suburban kids, who constantly ride his jock.
13) All the crazy lunatic Kobe homers who have the gaul to say he is as good as Jordan, or any other truly great player.
14) Peers and fellow players think he is "Uncle Tom" like..


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## MitchMatch (Jul 20, 2004)

Oh and for the record, I kind of like Kobe...


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## Unique (Apr 13, 2005)

MitchMatch said:


> Oh and for the record, I kind of like Kobe...


So wouldnt that make you a "Homer"?


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## luckylakers (Aug 10, 2005)

really ppeps do


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## Bartholomew Hunt (Mar 4, 2003)

MitchMatch said:


> For Numerous Reasons:
> 
> 1) Is extremely cocky.
> 2) Doesn't have his own personality.
> ...


 1) Yes he is.
2) How do you know this? Did you grow up with Kobe? Why should have to demonstrate his real personality to the world?
3) Not a bad role model.
4) He wasn't forced. People wanted to see him.
5) Yet he coexisted with Shaq and won three rings.
6) This has been debated and proven wrong countless times.
7) .......
8) Hard to judge the context of his comment...
9) Was not proven guilty.. Had zero evidence.. He didnt rape anyone.
10) You should hate the majority of NBA players. Kobe got caught.
11) Those things were ugly. I agree.
12) If they continue to constantly ride his jock, even when he doesn't make the playoffs, how exactly are they bandwagon fans?
13) I agree, but any great swingman nowadays gets that.
14) Dumb...


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## Unique (Apr 13, 2005)

Bartholomew Hunt said:


> 1) Yes he is.
> 2) How do you know this? Did you grow up with Kobe? Why should have to demonstrate his real personality to the world?
> 3) Not a bad role model.
> 4) He wasn't forced. People wanted to see him.
> ...


Burrrrrrrrrrrrrn............Repped BH


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## DaFranchise (Jun 29, 2005)

Kobe did kick Shaq out cuz he wanted to prove to everyone that he could win a ring without him. Kobe wanted a new challenge and I can understand that. He is an ego maniac but he has the talents to back it up. Honestly, I hate the Lakers but Ive seen a change in Kobe. He has taken over as being the leader and is finally showing it. He is playing team ball and helping out his teammates learn the triangle. He seems more patient and is not shrugging his shoulders or rolling his eyes when his teammates screw up. All you Laker fans know in the past Kobe would ignore his teammates and coaches and just do his own thing. He seems more patient and I expect big things from Kobe in the the next few years. Too bad the CLips are the best team in LA!( Had to throw that in since I just gave props to Kobe)


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

DaFranchise said:


> Kobe did kick Shaq out cuz he wanted to prove to everyone that he could win a ring without him. Kobe wanted a new challenge and I can understand that. He is an ego maniac but he has the talents to back it up. Honestly, I hate the Lakers but Ive seen a change in Kobe. He has taken over as being the leader and is finally showing it. He is playing team ball and helping out his teammates learn the triangle. He seems more patient and is not shrugging his shoulders or rolling his eyes when his teammates screw up. All you Laker fans know in the past Kobe would ignore his teammates and coaches and just do his own thing. He seems more patient and I expect big things from Kobe in the the next few years. Too bad the CLips are the best team in LA!( Had to throw that in since I just gave props to Kobe)


Bah, freaking Clippers!


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## DaFranchise (Jun 29, 2005)

EHL said:


> Bah, freaking Clippers!


You gotta admit. We are gonna surpise a lot of people this year.


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## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

MitchMatch said:


> For Numerous Reasons:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## tone wone (Jan 30, 2003)

MitchMatch said:


> 11) Had some ugly adidas kicks back in the day.


I disagree with everything else....but you're on point with this.


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

DaFranchise said:


> You gotta admit. We are gonna surpise a lot of people this year.


I have no idea, who knows right?


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

Yeah, don't know what Adidas was thinking with that product line. :laugh:


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## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

DaFranchise said:


> You gotta admit. We are gonna surpise a lot of people this year.



I think the Clippers look strong this season. I believe the Lakers should be more worried about them, than the Kings or suns for the pacific. Well... Honestly they should be worried about all the teams in the pacific and western confernce, but thats besides the point...

Ok, follow the stupid Laker fans that say "The Clippers will always be the Clippers" crap, just to make the thread complete.


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## AIFan (Oct 23, 2005)

kobesthegoat said:


> 7 Allstar starts, 3 Nba Championships, 22.4, 5.1,4.4 career stats,....One rape accusation and a fight with shaq......does this make kobe the ulitimate bad guy. Can someone please tell me why kobe is hated so much...is it because of the shaq break up or becasue he's not social. I want to know since when is bad to be a quite guy, why does kobe have to be "selfish" or a "ballhog" kobe wants to win at all cost in my opinion and with the way our guys were playing last year he had every right to hold the ball and make the decisions, i think its time for people to stop blaming kobe and start looking at the reality that kobe cant do it himself, he didnt break the team up by himself and he cant take on all the blame by himself. right? :curse:


Wow! I feel your pain, Allen Iverson is my favorite player so I empathize with you. 

My dislike of Kobe came long before the rape,the fight with Shaq. It began his rookie season and was cemented in the playoff series against the Jazz that year. I tend to be wary of players who garner all the hype, he was one of them. I became a fan of Iverson during his first year at Georgetown only because the guys I worked with all loved college basketball, and since we all took our breaks and lunch together, I'd be left out of the conversations cause I knew nothing about it. So I began watching, seen AI play one day, and the rest is history. Anyways, Kobe is a very gifted player, no doubt about it, but it was all the hype that turned me off, as well as his futile attempts to live up to the hype that soured me on him. The fight with Shaq and the incident with the hotel chic didn't help.


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## Pnack (Aug 23, 2005)

is kobe gonna have a signature shoe with nike this year??


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## AIFan (Oct 23, 2005)

KobeBryant08 said:


> is kobe gonna have a signature shoe with nike this year??


Yep, it's the Nike Air praythatgirldonttell Max

Nah, in all seriousness, his signature shoe is this one
http://www.pickyourshoes.com/collectible/nike_huarache_2k5_nvy_mze_wht.htm


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## Unique (Apr 13, 2005)

AIFan said:


> Yep, it's the Nike Air praythatgirldonttell Max
> 
> Nah, in all seriousness, his signature shoe is this one
> http://www.pickyourshoes.com/collectible/nike_huarache_2k5_nvy_mze_wht.htm


Ummm no.

His sig shoe is coming out in Feb of next year.


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## duncan2k5 (Feb 27, 2005)

another thing is how hypocritical laker fans are. they don't like Lebron because he is seen as a challege to Kobe's "greatness". they claim the media is hyping lebron...when they did the SMAE thing with Kobe and everyone is laughin at my post but never said i was wrong with anything i said. look in that kid's sig who has some of my quotes...which of those aren't true?


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## madskillz1_99 (Dec 5, 2004)

duncan2k5 said:


> another thing is how hypocritical laker fans are. they don't like Lebron because he is seen as a challege to Kobe's "greatness". they claim the media is hyping lebron...when they did the SMAE thing with Kobe and everyone is laughin at my post but never said i was wrong with anything i said. look in that kid's sig who has some of my quotes...which of those aren't true?


Huh? Kobe fans don't like Lebron? That's news to me. I love Bron Bron.


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## Bartholomew Hunt (Mar 4, 2003)

duncan2k5 said:


> another thing is how hypocritical laker fans are. they don't like Lebron because he is seen as a challege to Kobe's "greatness". they claim the media is hyping lebron...when they did the SMAE thing with Kobe and everyone is laughin at my post but never said i was wrong with anything i said. look in that kid's sig who has some of my quotes...which of those aren't true?


 Ummm.. Plenty of Lebron fans around here..


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## AIFan (Oct 23, 2005)

Lakermike05 said:


> Ummm no.
> 
> His sig shoe is coming out in Feb of next year.


Um, yes. Everybody who knows what's up, knows the huarache 2k4's were Kobe's signature shoe, Nike just didn't use him for obvious reasons. This model year is no different, except that Nike has given him his own logo on this years model.


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## MitchMatch (Jul 20, 2004)

Lakermike05 said:


> So wouldnt that make you a "Homer"?


A "homer"? lol no.. because I kind of like him. I'm not head over heels for him, but at times he is fun to watch. Key words "at times".


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## MitchMatch (Jul 20, 2004)

The new Kobe kicks are nice though. Oh and for those who are sneaker heads here like me, the Hurrache 2k5's that came out in all black this summer was one of his signature shoes. Kobe has a nickname amongst his friends how he is called the "black mamba" in reference to the snake. And the logo on the back of the all black hurrache's is the shape of the mamba, and was also the shape used in Kill Bill. A little FYI for yall, hehe.


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## MitchMatch (Jul 20, 2004)

Bartholomew Hunt said:


> 1) Yes he is.


Yes, he really is. hehe



Bartholomew Hunt said:


> 2) How do you know this? Did you grow up with Kobe? Why should have to demonstrate his real personality to the world?


Because it is a known fact that the dude adapts his personality, and is rarely real with people. Former people that were co-workers with him will tell you. There is even an article about it in espn in the current issue. He's a phonie, a kniving backstaber. He's a sneaky weasel type of guy. It's just evident. He is always looking to get his. And he has never shown his true personality, he is always putting on a facade. There have been countless articles about it in SLAM magazine, SI, ESPN and other sports media. Get your knowledge up.


Bartholomew Hunt said:


> 3) Not a bad role model.


Role model, yes. But trying to adapt and make his personality your own = fake/phonie/fugazy etc.


Bartholomew Hunt said:


> 4) He wasn't forced. People wanted to see him.


Really? I thought is was definetely more of the League and sponsors pushing him down our throats.


Bartholomew Hunt said:


> 5) Yet he coexisted with Shaq and won three rings.


Co-existed? Have you been living under a rock for the past 5-6 years? Kobe created nothing but trouble behind the scenes. And had he been a truly un-selfish and smart basketball player..he would have MORE than just 3 rings.


Bartholomew Hunt said:


> 6) This has been debated and proven wrong countless times.


Really? I have yet to see it.


Bartholomew Hunt said:


> 7) .......


Reference for this post stems to him getting his *** kicked by Chris Childs, Reggie Miller, and D. Wade squashed the bully while he was talking trash during the christmas day game.


Bartholomew Hunt said:


> 8) Hard to judge the context of his comment...


Uhhh, yeah... he still ratted out a teammate, in which it had no bearing on HIS situation. Face it, it was a sleezy move.


Bartholomew Hunt said:


> 9) Was not proven guilty.. Had zero evidence.. He didnt rape anyone.


Zero evidence? fraid not. This is a whole nother argument all together though. There was plenty of evidence to justify a case against Kobe. She just didn't want to go through with it. Possibly because of the emberassment of it all and the threats she was receiving from Kobe stans.


Bartholomew Hunt said:


> 10) You should hate the majority of NBA players. Kobe got caught.


Yeah, a good majority of NBA players may cheat on their wives. But most of them aren't stupid enough to get caught, with an underage girl no less, and then rat out a teammate or friend on top of it. Kobe is a gutless character.


Bartholomew Hunt said:


> 11) Those things were ugly. I agree.


Yupperz.


Bartholomew Hunt said:


> 12) If they continue to constantly ride his jock, even when he doesn't make the playoffs, how exactly are they bandwagon fans?


Because he still appeals to them. And in their twisted little minds, they think he is Jordan-esque.


Bartholomew Hunt said:


> 13) I agree, but any great swingman nowadays gets that.


But they all hate that attention of being compared to Mike, and most level headed superstars would back away from that. Kobe relished in it, and you could see it whenever they were braught up together.


Bartholomew Hunt said:


> 14) Dumb...


Well it's kind of true.


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## Unique (Apr 13, 2005)

MitchMatch said:


> Yes, he really is. hehe
> 
> Because it is a known fact that the dude adapts his personality, and is rarely real with people. Former people that were co-workers with him will tell you. There is even an article about it in espn in the current issue. He's a phonie, a kniving backstaber. He's a sneaky weasel type of guy. It's just evident. He is always looking to get his. And he has never shown his true personality, he is always putting on a facade. There have been countless articles about it in SLAM magazine, SI, ESPN and other sports media. Get your knowledge up.
> Role model, yes. But trying to adapt and make his personality your own = fake/phonie/fugazy etc.
> ...


Hmmm dont i recall Wade gettin punked by cookie? Yea im pretty sure that was wade....KK now take of him BH


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## DANNY (Aug 9, 2005)

mitchmatch you like that word phony, use this quote

"youre a PHONY A GREAT BIG PHONY!!!" - from one of the episode on family guy :eek8:


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## DANNY (Aug 9, 2005)

almost everyones fake in the NBA

why pick on kobe

you think players do those "help the community" "promote readings to children" ads for the NBA and NFL because its coming out from the goodness of their heart

they look ****in retarded and fake 
but they do it cause its their ****in job

so pretty much everyone in the nbas fake so you cant make that argument just on kobe


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## MitchMatch (Jul 20, 2004)

dannyM said:


> almost everyones fake in the NBA
> 
> why pick on kobe
> 
> ...


Props on the quote from Family Guy...awesome show. And no, I'm not talking about players enjoying community projects (even though some do), I am talking about their character and the way they act and the way they deal with people etc. Look at all the players that think negatively of Kobe around the league... Doesn't that say something? He is a dark person. A selfish kid, who no matter what is always looking to get his. And as for his personality, you can never really know when Kobe is truly genuine. He just looks like one of those guys that puts on a face or personality for whoever he is dealing with. He's fake.


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## MitchMatch (Jul 20, 2004)

A.I. is A.I. with whoever he is dealing with. Same goes for KG, Ducan, Wade, VC, T-Mac. etc. Kobe is the only ones who puts up facades and things of that nature.


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## MitchMatch (Jul 20, 2004)

dannyM said:


> so pretty much everyone in the nbas fake so you cant make that argument just on kobe


No, their not. And I can make that argument. It has been backed by countless sports journalists, NBA players and teammates. Are you saying all these people are wrong? This is also another reason why people don't like Kobe. He has un-intelligent fans like yourself, that make no logical argument in which you can defend him. Look at the title of this thread. If you didn't want to hear the reasons, or you wanted to debate them..what's the point? The topic of this thread was to subjectively ask, "Why is Kobe, hated?". If you don't want to hear it, stay out of the thread.


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## KillWill (Jul 1, 2003)

duncan2k5 said:


> another thing is how hypocritical laker fans are. they don't like Lebron because he is seen as a challege to Kobe's "greatness". they claim the media is hyping lebron...when they did the SMAE thing with Kobe and everyone is laughin at my post but never said i was wrong with anything i said. look in that kid's sig who has some of my quotes...which of those aren't true?


any true fan of the game loves good competition. good teams and great players. whether its lebron, tmac, ai, dwade, amare, nash, dirk, paul pierce, duncan, kg, hell, deep down i still love shaq. the more great players that continue to enter the league the better the experience for fans and players alike. i mean seriously, did you come here to debate topics or picka fight. trust me there is a difference. i mean i guess i could stroll over to the spurs board and yap about how slow and boring td is or how much bruce bowen fouls, or how manu flops, or that horry still only plays hard the last five mins of a game or how i dont like pops hair and think he looks like a vulture. if anything it is the play of guys like those mentioned and countless others omitted that will help propel this generation of players to greatness.


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## Laker Superstar 34 (Aug 8, 2005)

This has gone on long enough. I know it was funny and all at first but seriously, this thread needs to be closed, ok Bartholomew Hunt, EHL, Chris, Ghiman and Weasel. One of you has got to close this thread.


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## KillWill (Jul 1, 2003)

MitchMatch said:


> Because it is a known fact that the dude adapts his personality, and is rarely real with people. Former people that were co-workers with him will tell you. There is even an article about it in espn in the current issue. He's a phonie, a kniving backstaber. He's a sneaky weasel type of guy. It's just evident. He is always looking to get his. And he has never shown his true personality, he is always putting on a facade. There have been countless articles about it in SLAM magazine, SI, ESPN and other sports media. Get your knowledge up.


you seem versed well enough in journalistic writing to realize that just b/c it's in writing, even in a major peridodical, dosent make it fact. most of the writings in the mags you mentioned are opinion pieces anyway. sports facts come in the paper the next day. box scores. everything else is hearsay, interpretation, speculation, not "knowledge" or "fact". i know that if i had cameras in my face day after day, i might start to throw up a wall too. especially when most things published about me were negative and potentially false.


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## MitchMatch (Jul 20, 2004)

KillWill said:


> you seem versed well enough in journalistic writing to realize that just b/c it's in writing, even in a major peridodical, dosent make it fact. most of the writings in the mags you mentioned are opinion pieces anyway. sports facts come in the paper the next day. box scores. everything else is hearsay, interpretation, speculation, not "knowledge" or "fact". i know that if i had cameras in my face day after day, i might start to throw up a wall too. especially when most things published about me were negative and potentially false.


True, and some of the articles and writers may in addittion be biased. But first hand accounts aren't just "hearsay"..


----------



## tone wone (Jan 30, 2003)

MitchMatch said:


> No, their not. And I can make that argument. It has been backed by countless sports journalists, NBA players and teammates. Are you saying all these people are wrong? This is also another reason why people don't like Kobe. He has un-intelligent fans like yourself, that make no logical argument in which you can defend him. Look at the title of this thread. If you didn't want to hear the reasons, or you wanted to debate them..what's the point? The topic of this thread was to subjectively ask, "Why is Kobe, hated?". If you don't want to hear it, stay out of the thread.


 Kobe being "fake" hasn't been backed by anybody who didn't gain anything from speaking about Kobe negatively(ie Shaq)

There's like 2 eras of hate....pre rape charge (99-03) & post-rape charge (03-present) but then if you think about it it's pre-laker breakup & post-laker breakup...cause as soon as Shaq said he wanted out all eyes were on #8

Pre-laker breakup hate was mainly due to the Lakers winning titles and Kobe being "better than Jordan at 21" and "better than Jordan at 22" and "better than Jordan at 23". Being compared to Jordan brings about a little hate but when people say you're "better" at anything yet alone being a better overal player its a wrap...you're gonna catch hea!

Post-laker breakup hate is due to just that. Shaq aint in LA anymore and "they" say its Kobe's fault. Is it? of course not, but its been written in articles and said on television thus it must be true

you can hate the kobester for cheating on his wife....hell, you can hate him for cheating with a white girl but other than that the other stuff is petty


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## cgcatsfan (Jun 10, 2005)

Kobe has mad skilz
Also mad attitude. But you'll have that when you're one of the few players to successfully transition 
from high school to the NBA. Bound to go to your head. 

However, as for the "Hotel girl" The BEST POSSIBLE thing you can say about him is he cheated on his wife while she was pregnant with their child. Worst case he raped a woman while his wife was pregnant. 

Some people might consider that socially unacceptable. :dead:


----------



## duncan2k5 (Feb 27, 2005)

well why are laker fans so quick to believe positive press about kobe and disregard and bash the negative? ppl don't hate him because he is compared to jordan at a similar age...lebron is compared to jordan also...but he doesn't get the hate Kobe does. Kobe is hated by me because of perceived personality issues. and i didnt use the right words...some laker fans hate lebron and wade...but almost all discredit them in anything to do with kobe...and thats annoying. for example lebron and wade are more efficient offensively...somehow laker fans try to deny it. lebron and wade gel better with their teammates...laker fans would deny that too. and dont mention how lebron had a better season than kobe, because that would raise hell


----------



## Unique (Apr 13, 2005)

duncan2k5 said:


> well why are laker fans so quick to believe positive press about kobe and disregard and bash the negative? ppl don't hate him because he is compared to jordan at a similar age...lebron is compared to jordan also...but he doesn't get the hate Kobe does. Kobe is hated by me because of perceived personality issues. and i didnt use the right words...some laker fans hate lebron and wade...but almost all discredit them in anything to do with kobe...and thats annoying. for example lebron and wade are more efficient offensively...somehow laker fans try to deny it. lebron and wade gel better with their teammates...laker fans would deny that too. and dont mention how lebron had a better season than kobe, because that would raise hell


I wasnt going to get in this but damn someneeds to teach you a lesson.

Because we are Laker fans , we all belive postive press about Kobe? Some people here belive the Kobe is a bad person OFF THE COURT .....But we dont care about that , we care about how he does ON the court....People cheat on their wives all the time especially in sports due to all that money and fame. Kobe is the closest thing to Jordan so far so thats why people compare him to him. Wade and Lebron have something Kobe dosent on his team....A low post thread...Big Z is an huge upgrade on Mihm and Shaq is shaq ...Which makes LJ and Wade's job much easiar which will make there game easiar and not be the 1st and 2nd option. Point is what Kobe does outside of the court is his personal stuff....LJ had a better season? In which way...To the "Great" players its either playoffs or bust so unless he made the playoffs then they both had a bad season. And another thing is that last season we had no offense!! A structed offense is the key to sucess .......If your going to try to burn someone think it out...Your lucky i took this one and not EHL.


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## The One (Jul 10, 2005)

MitchMatch said:


> No, their not. And I can make that argument. *It has been backed by countless sports journalists, NBA players and teammates*. Are you saying all these people are wrong? This is also another reason why people don't like Kobe. He has un-intelligent fans like yourself, that make no logical argument in which you can defend him. Look at the title of this thread. If you didn't want to hear the reasons, or you wanted to debate them..what's the point? The topic of this thread was to subjectively ask, "Why is Kobe, hated?". If you don't want to hear it, stay out of the thread.


I hope you understand this. Yes about 70% of sports analyst do right negitively about Kobe and usually if the majority is on one idea then that idea or comment should be true, but understand you are taking on the word of people who are paid to start controversy and write *their truth* that will appeal to the general reader. Kobe raped a white women - _that's news_. Kobe forced Shaq and Phil to leave - _that's news_. It may not be completely true but it is what poeple want to read about. That is why you here soo many sports writters write the same thing as if they don't have their own oppinion. Bad news, especially to a player that has been idolized for a long time, is always what most will want to believe. So far there is only two players that have spoke bad about Kobe and that was Shaq and Bogut, who out of rookie impulse decided to take the majority suck-up approch by dissing Kobe and saying good things about Shaq and Duncan ect... Ray Allen said somethings but he and Kobe go way back. Teamates? Shaq. that is about it. So your countless reliabilities are mostly _professional_ _manipulators_ which you have been a victom to<-(All right I was going to far right there )


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## DANNY (Aug 9, 2005)

tone wone said:


> Kobe being "fake" hasn't been backed by anybody who didn't gain anything from speaking about Kobe negatively(ie Shaq)
> 
> There's like 2 eras of hate....pre rape charge (99-03) & post-rape charge (03-present) but then if you think about it it's pre-laker breakup & post-laker breakup...cause as soon as Shaq said he wanted out all eyes were on #8
> 
> ...


i think you got a point there. but why would people hate him for what he does with his personal life.. :raised_ey its just basketball... 
unless you think adultery is a crime.. you hate kobe cause hes a criminal..
plus it seems like all the kobe haters assume that kobe did rape the girl but just got away wid it cause hes rich or something... :no:


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## el_Diablo (May 15, 2003)

> why does this bother you so much? the slight chance that it's true? i mean everyone has "their guy". take it with a grain of salt.


I don't know... but to me it seems kobe's fans are the biggest homers there are (although his haters are pretty high on the other end of the spectrum too...). but this probably has a lot to do with him playing for the lakers (as the same is true with laker homers and haters). if you compare the number of ridiculous kobe fans to the number of same kind of fans tmac (who imho is just as good) has, the difference is staggering. at least on bbb.net. 

I just think neither is as good as duncan.



> say something positive about your guy. ppg. turnover to assist ratio, whatever floats your boat. i worry for the health of people like you in the likely event that kobe continues his historic assent in the mythos of the nba.


people like me? I don't like kobe, but come on now, it's not like care that much... in case you guys didn't notice, this thread is about why kobe is hated, and the post I quoted is a prime example of one of the biggest reasons.

all in all, I totally agree with LoyalBull's post from a few days ago.

and shaq is an idiot.


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## Laker Superstar 34 (Aug 8, 2005)

Any of those mods listening? We should just close this thread, there's just way too much argueing.


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## tatahbenitez (Jun 18, 2004)

Laker Superstar 34 said:


> Any of those mods listening? We should just close this thread, there's just way too much argueing.


It just goes to show you the kinds of response you get when people talk about Kobe. Most people either love him or hate him. It's going to be tough for Kobe to change his image because of everything that has happened to him.

Rightly or wrongly, Kobe has made his bed and now has to lie in it. Luckily, the bum still has time to change on how people see him.


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

tatahbenitez said:


> It just goes to show you the kinds of response you get when people talk about Kobe. Most people either love him or hate him. It's going to be tough for Kobe to change his image because of everything that has happened to him.
> 
> Rightly or wrongly, Kobe has made his bed and now has to lie in it. Luckily, the bum still has time to change on how people see him.


Pff!

People keep thinking that the NBA is some kind of popularity contest... The way a player is "liked" or "disliked" only matters for 2 things: selling jerseys and all-star game votes.

Many of the great players were ***-holes: Wilt, Bird, Jordan, Kareem, you name it. Did it matter? No. So why should he matter now?


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## Laker Superstar 34 (Aug 8, 2005)

tatahbenitez said:


> It just goes to show you the kinds of response you get when people talk about Kobe. Most people either love him or hate him. It's going to be tough for Kobe to change his image because of everything that has happened to him.
> 
> Rightly or wrongly, Kobe has made his bed and now has to lie in it. Luckily, the bum still has time to change on how people see him.


I wasn't saying that they should close this because of the bad things said about Kobe. I know about his bad traits as well as the good ones. I just wanted this closed because of all the argueing and I'd say this even if we were argueing about anyone, Kobe, Shaq, Jordan, T-Mac, KG, JO, TD, etc. Again I would want this thread closed if we were argueing no matter who it was or what it was that we were argueing about.


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## tatahbenitez (Jun 18, 2004)

PauloCatarino said:


> Pff!
> 
> People keep thinking that the NBA is some kind of popularity contest... The way a player is "liked" or "disliked" only matters for 2 things: selling jerseys and all-star game votes.


Okay, just keep thinking like that. Kobe is not the usual basketball star who had some bad publicity. Kobe evokes something more than just what the casual basketball fan thinks of a player.





> Many of the great players were ***-holes: Wilt, Bird, Jordan, Kareem, you name it. Did it matter? No. So why should he matter now?


Sorry, but these players didn't have the massive negative publicity as Kobe. Why do you think this topic came up in a Laker fan site? Kobe is an unusual enigma. He is the only player that I know of who can make fans either act like he is the greatest player ever or he is lowest scum on earth.


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## Ghiman (May 19, 2003)

Thanks for everyones input....


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