# Antoine Walker



## Jizzy (Aug 24, 2005)

Hello Celtic Fans!!! My name is Jizzy and I'm a Nets fan and I have a question for you guys, why is that Antwoin Walker plays well in Boston and decent every place else? The season before last when you guys won the division, you aquired Walker by the trade deadline and that pushed you over the top but in his other stops, he's often been critizised for his play and how he doesn't in any teams' systems. I didn't watch the Celts play at all basically when Walker was there but how do you guys think he perfromed in his tenure here? Would you sign him back if he was a free agent?


----------



## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

*Re: Antwoin Walker*

antoine walker plays "well" everywhere...his numbers per minutes played have been basically the same every year in his 10 year career...the reason he gets criticized alot is that he takes quite a few bad shots which makes him a "volume" shooter to most ppl...to me he is just a streak shooter which means he might go 6-8 in one half and 2-10 in the next...while people love him in that first half they are very quick, for whatever reason, to turn on him in that 2nd half because he isnt hitting his shots anymore...like they expect him to hit 80 percent of his shots the entire game...his performance speaks for itself while he was here...he was a 3 time allstar, cocaptain with paul pierce who led them to the eastern conference finals...and the reason we won the atlantic division last year with a late-year run...and im the wrong person to ask if we would sign him cuz obviously im a little biased but at the end of last year when we had a chance to sign him i was all for it because Al jefferson was not ready to be our franchise pf...and we could have won quite a few games with pierce walker and ricky or pierce walker and sczerbiak and still brought Al along slowly...but we didnt and we won 33 games...im very impatient so that doesnt make me happy but we do have a good core of young guys that if they stay together 4 or so years from now could be very good


----------



## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

"A little biased"???


----------



## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

I wouldn't sign Antoine again. Honestly, I don't care about returning to the playoffs without a legitimate chance at contending for a championship. I'm all for a rebuilding process and I wish _all_ of Ainge's transactions reflect a rebuilidng vision, however, unfortunately, this has not been the case. Antoine is one of my favourite players, however he restricts player development and our cap flexibility, while adding 7 to 10 wins and a playoff exit in the first or second round with no realistic shot at championship contention. No thanks.


----------



## AMΣRICAN GOD™ (Jun 4, 2005)

I, for one, hope he gets hit by a bus. :smile:


----------



## Jet (Jul 1, 2005)

AMΣRICAN GOD™ said:


> I, for one, hope he gets hit by a bus. :smile:


I agree 100% with you. I hate Antoine. He wasnt too bad, but then he decides to talk smack about the Mavs once he wins with the Heat. That is what makes me angry about him. Oh and the fact that he plays well just about everywhere else but in Dallas. I was watching an old game today between the Celtics and the Bullets, and he was doing very nicely, and I dont understand why he didnt do that well in Dallas. But theres nothing I can do to change this now, so.. I just try to ignore the fact that he exists.


----------



## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

Jet said:


> Oh and the fact that he plays well just about everywhere else but in Dallas. I was watching an old game today between the Celtics and the Bullets, and he was doing very nicely, and I dont understand why he didnt do that well in Dallas.




ummmmmm 14-8-5 on a team that had 3 superstars isnt "that well"...he shot 43% from the field...that isnt great but what if he shot 45 would that be THAT much better?...the only thing he had a problem with in dallas was his 3pt% which was very low...other than that he did VERY well for you guys...especially grabbing 8+ rebounds per game in what 34 minutes






Premier said:


> Honestly, I don't care about returning to the playoffs without a legitimate chance at contending for a championship.



so prem what your saying is we are going to go from winning 33 games for a couple years then all of a sudden we are going to have a "legitimate chance at a championship" out of nowhere??? not every team in the playoffs has a "legitimate shot" that doesnt mean tthey dont work to get in the playoffs..you have to be in the playoffs for a good amount of time before you have ANY shot at winning a championship...that is unless u get tim duncan in the draft and a healthy david robinson back but thats another story


----------



## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

Causeway said:


> "A little biased"???



:wink:


----------



## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

#1AntoineWalkerFan said:


> so prem what your saying is we are going to go from winning 33 games for a couple years then all of a sudden we are going to have a "legitimate chance at a championship" out of nowhere???


No. I did not say that or imply that.



> not every team in the playoffs has a "legitimate shot" that doesnt mean tthey dont work to get in the playoffs..you have to be in the playoffs for a good amount of time before you have ANY shot at winning a championship


That does not apply in this situation. With Antoine Walker, Paul Pierce, and Wally Szczerbiak as our three best players, the Celtics would not be able to compete for a championship as these players limit our payroll, prevent player development, add meaningless wins in years in which the draft classes are very strong, and ultimately are not talented enough to win championships. Rebuilding is trading these players to teams that wish to value them (playoff or near-playoff teams) to clear cap space, acquire draft picks and young players that may see their potential, and free up the roster and playing time for developing players.

It may be "nice" [for lack of a better word] to compete in the playoffs [and it also is a method to increase fan support and team revenue], however competing in the playoffs with a team with unmanageable contracts and a lack in talent will not win championships. Hypothetically, a team can compete in the playoffs, while still improving their roster, but in the case of adding Antoine Walker to a team that already has highly paid players in Paul Pierce, Wally Szczerbiak, and Raef LaFrentz will not succeed in the playoffs. As beantown put it, "I honestly don't give two ***** about the playoffs if we don't have a legitimate shot at the title. We're the freaking Celtics, remember?"



> ..that is unless u get tim duncan in the draft and a healthy david robinson back but thats another story


Greg Oden.


----------



## Jet (Jul 1, 2005)

#1AntoineWalkerFan said:


> ummmmmm 14-8-5 on a team that had 3 superstars isnt "that well"...he shot 43% from the field...that isnt great but what if he shot 45 would that be THAT much better?...the only thing he had a problem with in dallas was his 3pt% which was very low...other than that he did VERY well for you guys...especially grabbing 8+ rebounds per game in what 34 minutes


Yeah, ok he did well.. I didnt look it up, I just said what was on my mind. But I hate the fact he was critizing the Mavs after the Heat beat them. He called the Mavs the most flopping/whining team, and well, he used to be a part of it.


----------



## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

ok prem i see your point but i still disagree...with the young players we have that are still on rookie contracts we could afford to have walker pierce lafrentz and..well...ricky if it was the situation at the end of last yr....wallys contract would not have been here...even with wally wed still be fine...we could have west pierce wally walker and lafrentz while still having al and tony and gomes and green on the bench...now we are banking on all of our young guys bringing a championship in the future and noone wants to bring up the fact that when their rookie contracts run out we are not going to be able to sign even half of them if they all become as good as we hope they can be...so what will be left us having 2 or 3 guys like al perk and delonte with a bunch of young players again on rookie contracts...the cycle never ends...


and i don t know about the rest of you but im not willing to watch the celts tank this season and win 20 games just so we can get greg oden...another damn highschooler


----------



## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

#1AntoineWalkerFan said:


> ok prem i see your point but i still disagree...with the young players we have that are still on rookie contracts we could afford to have walker pierce lafrentz and..well...ricky if it was the situation at the end of last yr....wallys contract would not have been here...even with wally wed still be fine...we could have west pierce wally walker and lafrentz while still having al and tony and gomes and green on the bench...


The rookie contracts do not last forever. They have to be extended .



> now we are banking on all of our young guys bringing a championship in the future


I'm not banking on our young guys to bring in championship. They are a decent foundation, however the team still lacks talent in the worst way.



> noone wants to bring up the fact that when their rookie contracts run out we are not going to be able to sign even half of them if they all become as good as we hope they can be...


Adding Antoine Walker at eight [plus] million dollars per year over four to six years helps how exactly [well, you could subtract Scalabrine's contract as he is Antoine's replacement]?



> so what will be left us having 2 or 3 guys like al perk and delonte with a bunch of young players again on rookie contracts...the cycle never ends...


It's simple. You add talent. Some of the players will see the potential; some will not. You do everything you can to keep the players that do. Rinse. Repeat.



> and i don t know about the rest of you but im not willing to watch the celts tank this season and win 20 games just so we can get greg oden...another damn highschooler


I'll remember to bump this thread in two years when Greg Oden is the third best center in the league. I'm sure that you'll want David Robinsion [part two] then.


----------



## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

sure i like greg oden but please stop with the david robinson part 2...


hows kwame brown turned out...how bout desagana diop??? tyson chandler??? eddy curry??? theres much more of a chance that oden is not much better than these guys than there is a chance of him being david robinson...


but lets say he is a david robinson clone...i STILL wont tank the season to try to get him...hey how did that work out in 97???...this isnt the NFL...you are not guaranteed the top pick if you lose every game so we cant be the texans...even if we go 1-81 we still may not get the top pick...sorry but i dont want to bet a whole year against a 35% chance of landing greg oden


----------



## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

Chucker-Man Walker and his huge head is not walking through that door! Move on #1AW. You can keep the posters on the wall and still wear your #8 jersey to bed...but he's gone man. Gone.

:biggrin:


----------



## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

#1AntoineWalkerFan said:


> sure i like greg oden but please stop with the david robinson part 2...


Tremendous interior defense [with good shot-blocking instincts], superb rebounding ability, complete with the understanding of how to effectively box out, dominant inside presence, developing mid-range game, great athleticism. I'd say David Robinson is an accurate comparison.



> hows kwame brown turned out...how bout desagana diop??? tyson chandler??? eddy curry??? theres much more of a chance that oden is not much better than these guys than there is a chance of him being david robinson...


He's nothing like any of those players and he is definitely the "safest" big man prospect since Tim Duncan. Kwame Brown, DeSagana Diop, Tyson Chandler, and Eddy Curry did not have the amazing skill-set that Oden possesses, coming out of high school.



> but lets say he is a david robinson clone...i STILL wont tank the season to try to get him...hey how did that work out in 97???...this isnt the NFL...you are not guaranteed the top pick if you lose every game so we cant be the texans...even if we go 1-81 we still may not get the top pick...


Kevin Durant, Thaddeus Young, Joakim Noah, Al Horford, Brandan Wright, Brandon Rush, etc.

'07 Draft is the strongest since '96.



> sorry but i dont want to bet a whole year against a 35% chance of landing greg oden


Actually, it's a 25% chance.

I never stated the Celtics should tank, by the way. You assumed that I implied that. I did not. Also, your argument has been reduced to calling out Greg Oden.


----------



## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

The Celtics could always end up with three/four picks next year...and they've got quite some young talent to trade away (add value at least) to try to get a better chacne at Oden.


----------



## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

aquaitious said:


> The Celtics could always end up with three/four picks next year...and they've got quite some young talent to trade away (add value at least) to try to get a better chacne at Oden.


easy aqua - you might be acused of being optimistic of the current state of the Celtics!


----------



## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

aquaitious said:


> The Celtics could always end up with three/four picks next year...and they've got quite some young talent to trade away (add value at least) to try to get a better chacne at Oden.


If the Celtics do not win the lottery, they will not draft Greg Oden. No team would be willing to trade the first overall selection in the '07 draft. The '07 draft is not just the "Oden-draft," as there are multiple potential franchise players throughout the first ten selections.


----------



## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

Causeway said:


> Chucker-Man Walker and his huge head is not walking through that door! Move on #1AW. You can keep the posters on the wall and still wear your #8 jersey to bed...but he's gone man. Gone.
> 
> :biggrin:



hey...ya never know...he came back once...theres always a chance :gopray:


----------



## Jizzy (Aug 24, 2005)

So most of you don't miss him as much as 1AntwoinWalkerfan? Is that the major consesus?


----------



## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

Premier said:


> If the Celtics do not win the lottery, they will not draft Greg Oden. No team would be willing to trade the first overall selection in the '07 draft. The '07 draft is not just the "Oden-draft," as there are multiple potential franchise players throughout the first ten selections.


Worded it badly, but what I meant was the Celtics should have enough young guys to trade to get more picks in that draft. And as you said, even without Oden, we'll have plenty of fish in the sea.


----------



## Pain5155 (May 28, 2006)

toine' has his ring, thats all that matters to him.


----------



## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

Jizzy said:


> So most of you don't miss him as much as 1AntwoinWalkerfan? Is that the major consesus?


Some people miss him more than others obviously. I would not trade a jock-strap to have him back in green. But NOBODY misses Walker as much as #1AW.


----------



## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

Jizzy said:


> So most of you don't miss him as much as 1AntwoinWalkerfan? Is that the major consesus?


I miss him. I like Antoine. I just don't feel it is necessary to have him as a Celtic considering the current state of the team.


----------



## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

Jizzy said:


> So most of you don't miss him as much as 1AntwoinWalkerfan? Is that the major consesus?


I'd love to have Antoine back, but this team wouldn't be winning a championship with or without him. This team needs a lot of all around help, from PG, to backup SG, to a healthy SF, a non-sprained-ankled-PF and a Center that can bang down low and score. Of course having a non-NBDL coach would also help.


----------



## P2TheTruth34 (May 25, 2003)

I would like to have Toine back if we can give Raef away or something, but I wouldn't give up a lot for him at this point. Having Antoine as a role player would be awesome, but as a #1 or #2 option, I'd be disappointed (although I'm disappointed that we have Wally as that guy).


----------



## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

Antoine Walker is the reason the Heat lost the NBA Finals....oh wait.


----------



## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

P2TheTruth34 said:


> I would like to have Toine back if we can give Raef away or something, but I wouldn't give up a lot for him at this point. Having Antoine as a role player would be awesome, but as a #1 or #2 option, I'd be disappointed (although I'm disappointed that we have Wally as that guy).


Ok, let's say we trade Raef for Antoine, just for kicks, and we don't want Antoine to be "a #1 or #2 option" and just be a "role player," where in the world would any of the scoring come from? Who would be the number 2 option? Why would your second best offensive player be a "role player" while some young guys no one's heard of are going to take all the shots?

Just asking...


----------



## AMΣRICAN GOD™ (Jun 4, 2005)

sloth said:


> Antoine Walker is the reason the Heat lost the NBA Finals....oh wait.


No, but he is the reason for cancer, AIDS, and the Yankees winning 26 World Series.


----------



## Pain5155 (May 28, 2006)

aquaitious said:


> Ok, let's say we trade Raef for Antoine, just for kicks, and we don't want Antoine to be "a #1 or #2 option" and just be a "role player," where in the world would any of the scoring come from? Who would be the number 2 option? Why would your second best offensive player be a "role player" while some young guys no one's heard of are going to take all the shots?
> 
> Just asking...


toin' coming back to boston, i dont think so. he had 2 runs with the celtics, a third is high unlikely, unless they give up Gerald Green.


----------



## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

Pain5155 said:


> toin' coming back to boston, i dont think so. he had 2 runs with the celtics, a third is high unlikely, unless they give up Gerald Green.


Walker is not coming back to Boston, Allah be praised.


----------



## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

Pain5155 said:


> toin' coming back to boston, i dont think so. he had 2 runs with the celtics, a third is high unlikely, unless they give up Gerald Green.


..



> Ok, let's say we trade Raef for Antoine,* just for kicks*, and we don't want Antoine to be "a #1 or #2 option" and just be a "role player," where in the world would any of the scoring come from? Who would be the number 2 option? Why would your second best offensive player be a "role player" while some young guys no one's heard of are going to take all the shots?
> 
> Just asking...


----------



## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

aquaitious said:


> Ok, let's say we trade Raef for Antoine, just for kicks, and we don't want Antoine to be "a #1 or #2 option" and just be a "role player," where in the world would any of the scoring come from? Who would be the number 2 option? Why would your second best offensive player be a "role player" while some young guys no one's heard of are going to take all the shots?
> 
> Just asking...


Just because people have "heard of" Walker does not mean he'd be good for the Celtics. And plenty of people have heard of Green, Perkins, Jefferson, West etc. But to answer your question you give young guys with potential minutes so they grow and learn. It's pretty simple.


----------



## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

Causeway said:


> Just because people have "heard of" Walker does not mean he'd be good for the Celtics.


I don't mean to sound like a *****, but what does that have to do with the topic that you quoted? I just stated that if Walker did return to this team, hypothetically, why would he return here to be a "role player" instead of a #2 option when he's obviously going to be the 2nd best scoring option.



Causeway said:


> And plenty of people have heard of Green, Perkins, Jefferson, West etc. But to answer your question you give young guys with potential minutes so they grow and learn. It's pretty simple.


Plenty of hardcore fans have heard of Perkins, Jefferson, West and Green. The average fan sees the Celtics and thinks "what's Boston doing with a NBDL squad?" 

And yes, you give "guys with potential minutes so they grow and learn," because so far the Al-Project has worked wonders for the Celtics.


----------



## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

aqua, seriously, it's been two years. Wait until his first team option year before deciding anything.


----------



## Jizzy (Aug 24, 2005)

Cmon Aquatious, relax dude. It's just a question that will never happen in reality.


----------



## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

I'm sorry but this is the time of the year where we usually start saying how the Celtics will win 70 games next year and how Jefferson, Green, Perkins, Gomes will have 20 ppg 10 rpg each.


I just can't read this Al crap.

Throughout each of his three seasons, I've seen Perkins develop tremendously.

Throughout their first year, I've seen Green and Gomes in _just_ a couple of months time improve so much that they give me a lot of hope for the future.

IN the second year I've seen Delonte West improve in every single area (but being a real PG  ) and he gives me hope.

Al Jefferson? Well, I've said it so many times that I don't feel like repeating myself, but he's been *disappointing*


----------



## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

aquaitious said:


> I'm sorry but this is the time of the year where we usually start saying how the Celtics will win 70 games next year and how Jefferson, Green, Perkins, Gomes will have 20 ppg 10 rpg each.




amen


----------



## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

aquaitious said:


> I'm sorry but this is the time of the year where we usually start saying how the Celtics will win 70 games next year and how Jefferson, Green, Perkins, Gomes will have 20 ppg 10 rpg each.
> 
> 
> I just can't read this Al crap.
> ...


But you greatly exagerate what people are saying about Al. No one but you (I know it was sarcastic) is saying he's the next coming of Tim Duncan. He has been disappointing no question. But it'd be foolish to give up at this point on a 20 year old kid with the size and raw talent he has. All reports - and pictures - are that he's busting his *** this offseason. I am more than willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and see what happens this season. At this point what do we have to lose? Antwan Jamison? I can live with that.

And of course there's optimism at this point of the year. It's a clean slate. But I don't think the optimism is blind. At least for the Celtics. We DO have some great young talent. We do still have Paul Pierce. We do have the #7 pick.

It's not perfect and if as a fan if it's more fun for you to focus on the Scabs and Dickaus of the team or AJ's performance last season go ahead. But I think we are set up pretty nicely. Without some crazy moves we are not close to an elite team this year. But if managed right and with some luck we should be in the next couple years.

I am not trying to sound like an *** either. Trust me it's been a frustrating 20 years or so for me as a Celtics fan. But I see plenty of good things going on now.


----------



## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

Causeway said:


> But you greatly exagerate what people are saying about Al. No one but you (I know it was sarcastic) is saying he's the next coming of Tim Duncan. He has been disappointing no question. But it'd be foolish to give up at this point on a 20 year old kid with the size and raw talent he has. All reports - and pictures - are that he's busting his *** this offseason. I am more than willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and see what happens this season. At this point what do we have to lose? Antwan Jamison? I can live with that.


People were saying even last year that Al could be averaging 20/10 or _at least_ 16/10. How is that not a Duncan? Name one big guy that was 20 years old and averaged 20 (or 16) and 10 in his second season.

Trust me, I'm in no point giving up on Al but its ridiculous to think he'll be some sort of savior after last season. He was busting his *** off last offseason too, but I didn't see much of an improvement.



Causeway said:


> And of course there's optimism at this point of the year. It's a clean slate. But I don't think the optimism is blind. At least for the Celtics. We DO have some great young talent. We do still have Paul Pierce. We do have the #7 pick.


There are at least 10 other teams who have equal, if not greater talent than we do, and who have a better pick. There are about another 10 teams who are better than the Celtics and will be for at least another couple of years.



Causeway said:


> It's not perfect and if as a fan if it's more fun for you to focus on the Scabs and Dickaus of the team or AJ's performance last season go ahead. But I think we are set up pretty nicely. Without some crazy moves we are not close to an elite team this year. But if managed right and with some luck we should be in the next couple years.


Once again, we don't know if we'll be a great team in a couple of years. We're counting on Green and Al becoming superstars with Perk, West, Gomes and Pierce doing their thing. May I remind you that we still have four guys on this roster making over 1/2 the salary cap?


----------



## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

aquaitious said:


> People were saying even last year that Al could be averaging 20/10 or _at least_ 16/10. How is that not a Duncan? Name one big guy that was 20 years old and averaged 20 (or 16) and 10 in his second season.


This was based on his rookie season, in which this type of expectations were accepted. _No one_ expected Jefferson to gain weight, lose intensity, and generally play bad basketball as he did this year.



> Trust me, I'm in no point giving up on Al but its ridiculous to think he'll be some sort of savior after last season. He was busting his *** off last offseason too, but I didn't see much of an improvement.


I don't think anyone stated that he will be a saviour.


----------



## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

Premier said:


> This was based on his rookie season, in which this type of expectations were accepted. _No one_ expected Jefferson to gain weight, lose intensity, and generally play bad basketball as he did this year.


So why are people's expectations for next year even greater than they were after his rookie season, after he actually played like a pro NBA player?



Premier said:


> I don't think anyone stated that he will be a saviour.


So how are the Celtics going to be an elite team in three to four years?

If they play like they've played last year, the chances of _every_ team worse than us are pretty slim.

Al will need to become a dominant inside presence, and he's far from a lock.


----------



## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

Premier said:


> This was based on his rookie season, *in which this type of expectations were accepted.*




no...no...nonononono...i distinctly remember the predictions that everyone made last year with people saying oo if he gets so and so minutes he'll average this...and i calculated it out to be better point and rebound per minute averages than tim duncan...BETTER...those predictions were ABSURD...everyone was like oo if he can average 7 and 4.5 in 15 min per game than his 2nd year he can average 14 and 9 in 30 pluss he'll get better so 16-9 sounds right if he gets 30 min...thats not how it works...its much easier to put up numbers against 2nd string guys in limited minutes...put him up against the starting pfs in this league and he gets eaten for dinner...and he proceeded to do that this year


----------



## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

I cannot speak for anyone else.


----------



## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

Premier said:


> _No one_ expected Jefferson to gain weight, lose intensity, and generally play bad basketball as he did this year.


Au contraire, mon amí. Some of us sounded the alarm right after watching Jefferson's lackadaisical play during the Vegas Summer League. And were immediately hooted down as trolls by some of our more tumid members, who unctuously informed us that we had Moobs Scalabrine to serve as Al's "role model". Alas for us, they were right, Moobs did help convince Al that he was on the right path by hitting the Waffle House. Unfortunately they were wrong about Al. But no doubt their peremptory prose has fallen down the memory hole.


----------



## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

Who said Scabs would be Al's role bmodel? ehmunro you bring up Scabs -- or Moobs or whatever you like to call him - at every chance. I for one thought that having a guy like him in the right situation could be helpful. As the Heat just showed it's not just about who has the best talent. 

And let's not forget it was ehmunro who after the Francis trade posted in here that the Knicks were in better shape than the Celtics because they had a big spending owner and a great GM. How's that looking? Did that fall down your memory hole?


----------



## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

*Another instance of baiting/personal attacks will result in the deletion/edit of posts and/or the locking of this thread.

- Premier*


----------



## P2TheTruth34 (May 25, 2003)

aquaitious said:


> Ok, let's say we trade Raef for Antoine, just for kicks, and we don't want Antoine to be "a #1 or #2 option" and just be a "role player," where in the world would any of the scoring come from? Who would be the number 2 option? Why would your second best offensive player be a "role player" while some young guys no one's heard of are going to take all the shots?
> Just asking...


Well, I would definitely accept a Raef for Antoine deal, because Toine is simply a much better player than Raef is. I was not implying that if we had 'Toine I would make him our 6th man or anything like that, I just meant that everyone is in a better situation if you have the abilities to make Antoine a role player like the Heat are able to do. I like Antoine's game, but in doses. If you have to rely on him to carry your team and shoot 20 times a game, I don't think he is necessarily effective (as you would expect from an All-Star caliber player). I definitely didn't suggest we have "some young guys no one's heard of" taking all the shots, I'd just rather have other players in the NBA. What is this constant fascination that fans seem to have in wanting Walker back. I was not in favor trading Walker in the first place considering what we got in return, but If we can get other talent I can move on and accept the Celtics for what they are (a young team+Pierce). If Antoine is on the Cs you wouldn't want to hold him back from what he does well, I just don't feel Antoine is necessary for the Celtics to succeed (and I'm not saying we have what it takes right now, just that Antoine wouldn't necessarily put us over the top).


----------



## pokpok (Jul 26, 2005)

i love antoine... been a fan of him since day one... this guy is a true celtic in my book :biggrin:


----------



## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

P2TheTruth34 said:


> Well, I would definitely accept a Raef for Antoine deal, because Toine is simply a much better player than Raef is. I was not implying that if we had 'Toine I would make him our 6th man or anything like that, I just meant that everyone is in a better situation if you have the abilities to make Antoine a role player like the Heat are able to do. I like Antoine's game, but in doses. If you have to rely on him to carry your team and shoot 20 times a game, I don't think he is necessarily effective (as you would expect from an All-Star caliber player). I definitely didn't suggest we have "some young guys no one's heard of" taking all the shots, I'd just rather have other players in the NBA. What is this constant fascination that fans seem to have in wanting Walker back. I was not in favor trading Walker in the first place considering what we got in return, but If we can get other talent I can move on and accept the Celtics for what they are (a young team+Pierce). If Antoine is on the Cs you wouldn't want to hold him back from what he does well, I just don't feel Antoine is necessary for the Celtics to succeed (and I'm not saying we have what it takes right now, just that Antoine wouldn't necessarily put us over the top).


You, just like Causeway, misunderstood me.

I don't want Antoine back. I love the guy but never as a Celtic again. 

What I was arguing about though, is if we did get Walker back why would he be a role player on this current Celtic team?

That is my point, not "we should give up everything for Antoine because he's the best player in the wrold."


----------

