# ESPN: Bulls trade Hinrich and 17th overall pick to wizards.



## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

According to ESPN:


> The Chicago Bulls have a deal in place that would move Kirk Hinrich and the 17th pick to the Washington Wizards, freeing up enough cap space to pursue two maximum-salary players on this summer's free-agent market, sources with knowledge of the Bulls' plans said Thursday.
> 
> It wasn't immediately clear what Washington would send to Chicago in the trade.
> 
> ...


If the NBA's most recent cap prediction of 56.1 mil holds. (most recent that I am aware of anyways. Than this would mean we are now *33.238 mil under the cap*.

Which of course would be amazing for what we can do this offseason.

Edit:
If 56.1 is the cap, then 16.83 mil is the max contract for the wade,bosh, Lebron... etc... type free agents.

16.83 *2= 33.66 mil in cap space needed to offer 2 full max contracts. Meaning we are now only 422K off. But we might as well try and move JJ. To get that added cap space.


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## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

Dirty stupid bastards anyway!


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## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

That would make a lot of sense, sending Hinrich to the team drafting a PG 1st overall, and we're getting nothing back. Draft isn't even worth watching now, if that garbage happens...and of course we won't know for over 2 weeks. If this happens Pax and Co can eat crap and die.


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

this is a phenomenal deal for us. We freed up about 10.5 mil in that deal.


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## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

That is a worthless deal. Losing a pick, losing our starting SG and backup PG, and getting nothing but cap space. Yeah, that's a hell of a deal for the Dung fanboys, since it means his worthless butt is staying, but that's about it. And then you are forced into hoping you get 2 FAs, cuz you don't even have a draft pick to fill holes with. So you're losing your starting SG/backup PG, losing a draft pick, and you still have a sissy at SF that you can count on missing 1/5 of the games. So you have Rose, Noah and the chance at some FAs. Yeah, stellar. They should be rocket scientists!


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

DaBabyBullz said:


> That is a worthless deal. Losing a pick, losing our starting SG and backup PG, and getting nothing but cap space. Yeah, that's a hell of a deal for the Dung fanboys, since it means his worthless butt is staying, but that's about it. And then you are forced into hoping you get 2 FAs, cuz you don't even have a draft pick to fill holes with. So you're losing your starting SG/backup PG, losing a draft pick, and you still have a sissy at SF that you can count on missing 1/5 of the games. So you have Rose, Noah and the chance at some FAs. Yeah, stellar. They should be rocket scientists!


the fact that you hate the deal so much is a great sign.


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## Bulls42 (Jul 22, 2002)

I think the Heat forced our hand on this trade (Jones buy-out, Cook deal). That's fine. LBJ/Bosh would rather be part of a great starting five than a great starting 3. I'm happy to post:
PG-Rose
SG-LBJ
SF-Deng
PF-Bosh
C-Noah


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

Casey, in the future could you please provide a link when you post an article?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2010/news/story?id=5324240


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## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

Do people really think that LeBron is a SG? I see people listing him there to make it work with Dung. The trade that would've made the most sense would've been to trade Dung and play LeBron at SF where he belongs, and pick up Joe Johnson (who is rumored to want to commit early) as the SG, and let Hinrich back up both Rose and JJ, with James Johnson backing up Lebron at the 3. We could draft a guy at 8 if we had made that trade to backup the post or start at PF.


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

Bulls42 said:


> I think the Heat forced our hand on this trade (Jones buy-out, Cook deal). That's fine. LBJ/Bosh would rather be part of a great starting five than a great starting 3. I'm happy to post:
> PG-Rose
> SG-LBJ
> SF-Deng
> ...


Honestly I think that would be by far the greatest starting lineup of all time. Crazy that it's even a possibility.

I am going to do my best not to get to hyped about it though.

Odds are the lineup ends up looking more like this:

Rose
Joe J
Deng
Lee
Noah

That is my not quite so optimistic lineup. 

But can you imagine if we got Bron and Bosh??? It would almost the games boring...


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

Dornado said:


> Casey, in the future could you please provide a link when you post an article?
> 
> http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2010/news/story?id=5324240


sure my bad. As you can tell by lack of a signature/image/etc I am not the most savvy of forum users.


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## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

You all are also neglecting the fact that it can't be consumated till the 8th, which is a full week after FA starts, which means a week to get screwed over in trying to recruit a FA. That's not good, at all.


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

DaBabyBullz said:


> Do people really think that LeBron is a SG? I see people listing him there to make it work with Dung. The trade that would've made the most sense would've been to trade Dung and play LeBron at SF where he belongs, and pick up Joe Johnson (who is rumored to want to commit early) as the SG, and let Hinrich back up both Rose and JJ, with James Johnson backing up Lebron at the 3. We could draft a guy at 8 if we had made that trade to backup the post or start at PF.


Dude Lebron can play wherever he wants. But ideally the 2 or 3. As long as he can guard a 2 he can play there. And we all know Lebron can guard the 2. I mean he guarded Rose at times in the playoffs.


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

DaBabyBullz said:


> You all are also neglecting the fact that it can't be consumated till the 8th, which is a full week after FA starts, which means a week to get screwed over in trying to recruit a FA. That's not good, at all.


Free agents can start negotiating on the 1st... But can't sign until the 8th. Which means we won't lose out on anything.


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## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

caseyrh said:


> Dude Lebron can play wherever he wants. But ideally the 2 or 3. As long as he can guard a 2 he can play there. And we all know Lebron can guard the 2. I mean he guarded Rose at times in the playoffs.


That also didn't work out the best either, him guarding Rose. You play your best player where he fits best, which is SF. You don't play him out of position due to a POS like Dung.


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## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

caseyrh said:


> Free agents can start negotiating on the 1st... But can't sign until the 8th. Which means we won't lose out on anything.


Well considering they could back out at any time too, that is pretty risky. I don't like this contingency crap.


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## BigMan (Mar 18, 2003)

Bulls42 said:


> I think the Heat forced our hand on this trade (Jones buy-out, Cook deal). That's fine. LBJ/Bosh would rather be part of a great starting five than a great starting 3. I'm happy to post:
> PG-Rose
> SG-LBJ
> SF-Deng
> ...





caseyrh said:


> Honestly I think that would be by far the greatest starting lineup of all time. Crazy that it's even a possibility.
> 
> I am going to do my best not to get to hyped about it though.
> 
> ...


Well - Let the snorefest begin. :clap:


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Kirk was a tough one to let go, but at least this guarantees the Bulls get one FA this summer. Just pray its not Joe J.


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## Bulls42 (Jul 22, 2002)

Yes, they could back out but the whole league knows they have committed to a deal so if they did, I don't think a lot of GM's would look to deal with them in the future.
Supposedly Sacramento would step in.
Yes, this a high risk-high reward plan. We have been stuck in mediocrity for the last decade+. It's about time to go for it.


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## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

Another thing, is who do we draft? We drafting a guy for them, or one we'd want in case we get stuck with it? That's another part I don't like about it. My luck they'll draft a guy I really want, only to watch him AND Kirk both traded. Nothing like a kick in the nuts after a slap in the face.


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

Bulls42 said:


> Yes, they could back out but the whole league knows they have committed to a deal so if they did, I don't think a lot of GM's would look to deal with them in the future.
> Supposedly Sacramento would step in.
> Yes, this a high risk-high reward plan. We have been stuck in mediocrity for the last decade+. It's about time to go for it.


Honestly I don't see how this is high risk at all. Although i like him a lot, Hinrich is not an overly important part of the team. He really plays the same position as our best player and has been starting basically by default. I think most people would agree that Hinrich starting at the 2 next year would not be a good dign for us. Which means we would have been paying 9 mil for a bench player. To me this deal is win win.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

Wish it would have been Deng but oh well. I dont know WHY the Wizards want another guard when they know they cant trade Arenas, unless they already have a deal in place to ship Arenas somewhere else. Dont see why the wizards want Hinrich but it does create more cap space.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

Hinrich is more important than Deng IMO. Either way more cap space > deng and kirky.


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## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

thebizkit69u said:


> Hinrich is more important than Deng IMO. Either way more cap space > deng and kirky.


Only if you get someone with it. Losing a key part like Hinrich and a draft pick and not being able to use the cap space on a star = a huge loss. We can get one star for sure, regardless. Not a necessary move. The one moving Dung and 17 for 8 is win-win, since we get rid of Dung's contract AND add a better player with #8. So you're at least guaranteed two positives, regardless of if you get a stud FA with that new cap space the trade created. This way you're not guaranteed anything but losing Hinrich and the pick.


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## BenDengGo (Feb 1, 2004)

i just hope someone good is coming to town and the bulls dont have to overpay to get someone!!! bulls, heat or knicks, one of them will go home alone.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

I think the Knicks will be the big time losers! David Stern will have a hissy fit it happens but I think Miami has locked in on atleast one sure fire star and the Bulls look like they know something we dont and are making room for maybe even 2 max free agents. The Knicks when its all said and done will be signing David Lee and Joe Johnson lol.


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## BenDengGo (Feb 1, 2004)

i think amar'é will go back home and sign with the heat.


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## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

BenDengGo said:


> i just hope someone good is coming to town and the bulls dont have to overpay to get someone!!! bulls, heat or knicks, one of them will go home alone.


I don't think the Heat and Bulls are going to cost each other. The Knicks on the other hand can go home alone.

I've always felt LeBron would rather go to Chicago or Cleveland. Then you guys can add whoever else.

Amare to Miami followed by a Wade signing the same day seems practically scripted. Only team left out in the cold is likely the begging-to-be-contracted Knicks.


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## mvP to the Wee (Jul 14, 2007)

Great deal, absolutely wonderful


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## BDMcGee (May 12, 2006)

caseyrh said:


> Honestly I don't see how this is high risk at all. Although i like him a lot, Hinrich is not an overly important part of the team. He really plays the same position as our best player and has been starting basically by default. I think most people would agree that Hinrich starting at the 2 next year would not be a good dign for us. Which means we would have been paying 9 mil for a bench player. To me this deal is win win.


Good post. Totally agree. Kirk Hinrich has always been overrated in my view and he had a really bad contract considering his production and role on the team. He's a decent player but looks to be on the downside of his career and clearly isn't irreplaceable. To be able to get valuable cap space for him is a bargain in my view. Now the Bulls are in great position to sign two superstars in free agency. If this deal goes down it's a great move for the Bulls.


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## Ragingbull33 (Apr 10, 2005)

HB said:


> Kirk was a tough one to let go, but at least this guarantees the Bulls get one FA this summer. Just pray its not Joe J.


We already had enough cap space for one max FA.

This is a horrible deal, depending on what we get back.

The Knicks were blasted for scarficing so much for a chance at two max FA's and now we have done the same, very sad. Even if we get Bosh and Bron it's still a bad fit with Rose, we need a shooter and Joe Johnson is not the answer because whoever signs him is paying more than 25 mill more than he is worth.


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

Ragingbull33 said:


> We already had enough cap space for one max FA.
> 
> This is a horrible deal, depending on what we get back.
> 
> The Knicks were blasted for scarficing so much for a chance at two max FA's and now we have done the same, very sad. Even if we get Bosh and Bron it's still a bad fit with Rose, we need a shooter and Joe Johnson is not the answer because whoever signs him is paying more than 25 mill more than he is worth.


really?


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## giusd (Apr 17, 2003)

Basketball players win games not cap space. We are trading a starter and the 17th pick, who could be a starter for fing cap space. What if we dont get the players we want. Then we have jack. This is a stupid trade and in the long run it will hurt the talent on this team. Just like trading Brand didnt work and trading Artest and Miller didnt work.

This is just fing stupid.

d


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

Ragingbull33 said:


> We already had enough cap space for one max FA.
> 
> This is a horrible deal, depending on what we get back.
> 
> The Knicks were blasted for scarficing so much for a chance at two max FA's and now we have done the same, very sad. *Even if we get Bosh and Bron it's still a bad fit with Rose,* we need a shooter and Joe Johnson is not the answer because whoever signs him is paying more than 25 mill more than he is worth.


:funny: :funny: :funny:

IF you got them, you should and would be celebrating.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

Great move. Obviously it could backfire. But, the Bulls are going "all in," not settling for mediocrity, and taking a shot at NBA championships. Let's hope it pans out.

FWIW, I would've rather moved Deng, but I'm satisfied either way.

Fortune favors the bold. (Except the whole T-Mac thing, eh?)


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## giusd (Apr 17, 2003)

Sure i agree. The Majic traded away the whole team for cap space to sign Tmac and Grant Hill and we all know how well that worked out. Can anyone demonstrate a team that build a great team by opening up cap space????

I cant.

david


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## BullNuts (Jan 18, 2010)

You didn't have Drose and Noah when Artest and Brand were traded. Let's keep Hinrich and take no chance to get ALLSTARS both much much much better than hinrich brand and artest morphed into one.


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## BullNuts (Jan 18, 2010)

giusd said:


> Sure i agree. The Majic traded away the whole team for cap space to sign Tmac and Grant Hill and we all know how well that worked out. Can anyone demonstrate a team that build a great team by opening up cap space????
> 
> I cant.
> 
> david


Tmac and hill couldn't hold boshnbron's jockstrap.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

How is it possible to trade a player and picks for nothing in return? Technically its not even a trade, rite? Its a donation lol, or a sell off. seriously has this happened before?




giusd said:


> Sure i agree. The Majic traded away the whole team for cap space to sign Tmac and Grant Hill and we all know how well that worked out. Can anyone demonstrate a team that build a great team by opening up cap space????
> 
> I cant.
> 
> david


The Lakers made some moves to sign Shaquille Oneal to as a free agent.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

BullNuts said:


> Tmac and hill couldn't hold boshnbron's jockstrap.


Boy Grant Hill when fully healthy was a way better player than Chris Bosh, the guy would have been a HOF lock if it was not for all the injuries. Tmac when healthy was no slouch either, this is the same guy who averaged 32 points 6 and 6 before he got injured and his stats went way down.

If both players would have stayed fully healthy they would have dominated.


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## Ragingbull33 (Apr 10, 2005)

Organized Chaos said:


> :funny: :funny: :funny:
> 
> IF you got them, you should and would be celebrating.


I Will be doing backflips...For Bosh though, I hate Lebron, recognize the immense talent of the 1-2 best players in the world, but the guys annoying.

Anyway, back to my point, Lebron is a bad fit with Rose, you do all know that, right?


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## Ragingbull33 (Apr 10, 2005)

thebizkit69u said:


> How is it possible to trade a player and picks for nothing in return? Technically its not even a trade, rite? Its a donation lol, or a sell off. seriously has this happened before?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah. except the Oneal thing was tampering because LA and Oneal had a deal beforehand. The NBA is structured in a way that allows LA to get Kareem for nothing, Shaq through a secret deal, and Gasol for 25 cents on the dollar.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

Ragingbull33 said:


> Yeah. except the Oneal thing was tampering because LA and Oneal had a deal beforehand. The NBA is structured in a way that allows LA to get Kareem for nothing, Shaq through a secret deal, and Gasol for 25 cents on the dollar.


True, but no proof so its still a signing.


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## giusd (Apr 17, 2003)

And to really make my point it is one thing to trade KH for cap space but why the fu&$$$ do we have to give up the 17 pick that we could have used for someone like Anderson or other SG. This team now has zero SG and no one things that is a problem?????

d


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

giusd said:


> And to really make my point it is one thing to trade KH for cap space but why the fu&$$$ do we have to give up the 17 pick that we could have used for someone like Anderson or other SG. This team now has zero SG and no one things that is a problem?????
> 
> d


There was probably no one at 17 that they liked or they felt that the 1.5-2 million cap hold is not worth it.


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## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

giusd said:


> Basketball players win games not cap space. We are trading a starter and the 17th pick, who could be a starter for fing cap space. What if we dont get the players we want. Then we have jack. This is a stupid trade and in the long run it will hurt the talent on this team. Just like trading Brand didnt work and trading Artest and Miller didnt work.
> 
> This is just fing stupid.
> 
> d


Exactly. It's retarded. If we don't get Lebron and another stud, I'm going to write Pax & Gar a really nasty letter telling them to burn in hell basically.


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## DengNabbit (Feb 23, 2005)

Cap space is opportunity. You have to act quickly to improve your fortunes in the NBA. It is so hard.

Think about how star-driven and dynasty-driven the NBA has been. You have to strike big or else you are in NBA hell. For years on end. Free agency and the draft are the two ways of doing it.

Kirk's great but Kirk is replaceable.


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

that pretty much sums it up


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

DaBabyBullz said:


> Exactly. It's retarded. If we don't get Lebron and another stud, I'm going to write Pax & Gar a really nasty letter telling them to burn in hell basically.



I'm sure they won't be able to sleep at night.


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## Wynn (Jun 3, 2002)

thebizkit69u said:


> Boy Grant Hill when fully healthy was a way better player than Chris Bosh, the guy would have been a HOF lock if it was not for all the injuries. Tmac when healthy was no slouch either, this is the same guy who averaged 32 points 6 and 6 before he got injured and his stats went way down.
> 
> If both players would have stayed fully healthy they would have dominated.


I agree... though not as wholeheartedly.


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## TheDarkPrince (May 13, 2006)

The pick botherd me more then losing Kirk. I mean Kirk has hardly been good the past 2 years. IMO he is one of the easiest players to replace on our team. Hell Flip Murray can do a lot of what Kirk did, and do it much cheaper.


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## JPTurbo (Jan 8, 2006)

Exactly how does this deal help us? We have to wait a week after FA opens to make the deal. What if guys want to sign elsewhere sooner?

Also we HAVE to sign LeBron now. After trading a good player and a first round pick just for cap space, Joe Johnson just isn't going to cut it.


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## King Joseus (May 26, 2003)

JPTurbo said:


> Exactly how does this deal help us? We have to wait a week after FA opens to make the deal. What if guys want to sign elsewhere sooner?
> 
> Also we HAVE to sign LeBron now. After trading a good player and a first round pick just for cap space, Joe Johnson just isn't going to cut it.


We can negotiate with free agents knowing our new cap situation rather than the old - the deal not being able to be done until the 8th has no impact on anything, as no deals can be done until the 8th.


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

JPTurbo said:


> Exactly how does this deal help us? We have to wait a week after FA opens to make the deal. What if guys want to sign elsewhere sooner?
> .


Like I said earlier July 1st is the date FA's can _negotiate_ with new teams. Not sign. They can't sign until the 8th so this will not impact that at all.




> Also we HAVE to sign LeBron now. After trading a good player and a first round pick just for cap space, Joe Johnson just isn't going to cut it


Really? So giving up Hinrich means it is Lebron or bust? Really? 
So say what we end up doing is add Joe Johnson and David Lee. Then what we have been doing hasn't been worth it?
Seriously guys. Lets look at this realistically. There are a bunch of different ways that the Bulls could come out of this Free agency being a much better team than we have seen since Jordan left.And there was no possible way we have gotten there if not for the moves we have made to clear cap space. I look at it like this: as long as the players we add via FA are better than this collection-BG, Hinrich, and Tyrus. Then it was at least a moderate success. And I don't think that will be very hard to do at all.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

I'm surprised that so many people are down on this trade.

Lebron James, Chris Bosh, Amare Stoudemire, Carlos Boozer, Rudy Gay, Dwyane Wade, Dirk Nowitzki, Joe Johnson, David Lee, Ray Allen.

I don't really see how we don't end up with at least two of these guys. Worst case scenario we do a trade for a guy like Al Jefferson. All are going to be more productive options than Kirk Hinrich.


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## JPTurbo (Jan 8, 2006)

Yeah that was kind of a knee jerk reaction. I dunno, I mean adding Johnson and Lee would for sure make us a lot better team and probably a top 3 eastern team, but I just don't see that team winning a ring. I just gotta convince myself that Lebron isn't happening though.


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

JPTurbo said:


> Yeah that was kind of a knee jerk reaction. I dunno, I mean adding Johnson and Lee would for sure make us a lot better team and probably a top 3 eastern team, but I just don't see that team winning a ring. I just gotta convince myself that Lebron isn't happening though.


You very well could be right. That JJ and Lee plus our core (Rose,Deng,Noah) might not get us a ring. But it could. 

And it would of been a much better team then we ever could have assembled otherwise.


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## Merk (May 24, 2006)

I dont a problem with the move

To me this means they know they have one of these top guys already locked up because this is not a move you make without already knowing that

With the one locked up i bet they set there sights on another that said if they can come up with a max deal he'll sign


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## SWIFTSLICK (Aug 22, 2009)

Ah, the day i've been waiting for has finally arrived. No more Capt Kirk. No more Harry Potter comparisons. No more Klank Hinrich. Wait...who's going to be the whipping boy now (Mental note: find new spirit to crush, pronto)???

To Kirk:

You were never supposed to be here. You were the first pick taken by a greenhorn GM that was suddenly missing a PG of the future after a horrific tragedy. That being said you performed adequately. Despite having several awful coaches (Cartwright, VDN) and a mediocre one (the Nazi formerly known as Scott Skiles). You were a strong defender and you alway spouted the company line well, no matter how ridiculous it seemed. Skiles came and went. Then you crumbled in the wake of his departure. Injuries didn't help but aren't an excuse. So I bid thee farewell. 

You weren't my favorite player nor the worst. And after the ridiculous debates of Jamal or Kirk, Are you overpaid (yes)?, Why can't you be more consistent, Should you start over D.Rose & blah blah blah...frankly i'm tired. 

You wore me out these past seven years. I argued against you till I was blue in the face. And now i'm too exhausted to dance a jig. 

Good Luck in DC, KLANK.

~SWIFTSLICK


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## Wishbone (Jun 10, 2002)

At the moment, I'm not too happy with this trade.
I don't see how giving away a useful veteran (even if he is overpaid) and a middle round draft pick for literally nothing is helpful for any franchise.

Yes, this opens the door to the possibility of free agent signings, which is fine and well... but it's just a crap shoot. Perhaps even more of a crap shoot than draft itself.

I'm upset that this team now has some very huge needs to fill, and is going to end up overpaying some other shmuck in the same way they overpaid Heinrich in the first place. Unless we get LeBron or Wade AND Bosh or Amare, we're not going to be legitimate title contenders. And that was the whole point of freeing the cap space - to get the top players available and turn this team in an actual powerhouse.

I'll be very happy and excited if the team does manage to lure in two of the top 4 talents that are available this FA period. Deliriously happy. But the Bulls track record for these kinds of moves is dubious at best.
I'm scared out of my mind that the Bulls are going to end up with some combination of Joe Johnson (among the most overrated players in the game today), David Lee (nice role player, nothing more) and Carlos Boozer (legitimate post scoring option, but not a championship team cornerstone)

and we'll be stuck with this "star" players - clearly not "super stars" for far too long at far too great a cost, to only turn this team into one capable of reaching the 2nd round of the playoffs but not much more.


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

Wishbone said:


> I'm scared out of my mind that the Bulls are going to end up with some combination of Joe Johnson (among the most overrated players in the game today), David Lee (nice role player, nothing more) and Carlos Boozer (legitimate post scoring option, but not a championship team cornerstone)
> 
> and we'll be stuck with this "star" players - clearly not "super stars" for far too long at far too great a cost, to only turn this team into one capable of reaching the 2nd round of the playoffs but not much more.


Really? scared out of your mind that we would _add_ to all stars? come on dude. How can you be scared out of your mind that we would add _two_ all stars. Ridiculous.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

To be honest I'm more scared about Lebron James.

I feel more comfortable with a Chris Bosh, Joe Johnson and Derrick Rose team for some odd reason.


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## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

thebizkit69u said:


> To be honest I'm more scared about Lebron James.
> 
> I feel more comfortable with a Chris Bosh, Joe Johnson and Derrick Rose team for some odd reason.


As I've said all along, I have mixed feelings about him. I really don't like him and his ego and attitude and dancing by the bench DURING games. My take on him as a person, is he can drop dead, honestly. But, it would be nice to win and he's the best there is, so gives the best chance of that.


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

DaBabyBullz said:


> As I've said all along, I have mixed feelings about him. I really don't like him and his ego and attitude and dancing by the bench DURING games. My take on him as a person, is he can drop dead, honestly. But, it would be nice to win and he's the best there is, so gives the best chance of that.


Yeah, I was openly against the Kobe thing because I was pretty sure he had raped a girl and I wasn't looking forward to having to root for him... with Lebron the offenses are less egregious.. I didn't like the dancing around thing, and he definitely has the ego you'd expect someone with his celebrity to have. Lebron is such a transcendent talent though... if he were by some miracle to sign with the Bulls I would be absolutely thrilled, and would forget all of the nonsense. Hell, I forgave Dennis Rodman after a myriad of cheap shots directed at the Bulls... I can forgive Lebron for doing a jig or two.


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## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

Dornado said:


> Yeah, I was openly against the Kobe thing because I was pretty sure he had raped a girl and I wasn't looking forward to having to root for him... with Lebron the offenses are less egregious.. I didn't like the dancing around thing, and he definitely has the ego you'd expect someone with his celebrity to have. Lebron is such a transcendent talent though... if he were by some miracle to sign with the Bulls I would be absolutely thrilled, and would forget all of the nonsense. Hell, I forgave Dennis Rodman after a myriad of cheap shots directed at the Bulls... I can forgive Lebron for doing a jig or two.


I was the same way with Kobe, and it's still stuck on my avatar since I can't figure out how to get rid of it lol. But with LeBron, he has never had any appeal to me whatsoever. He has never done anything "bad" except act like a buffoon with zero class, so yes he's nowhere near the Kobe level. Rodzilla, I was never a fan, till I saw them live in Chicago, in person. His effort and how he played it up for the crowd was unreal. I was a fan from that day on. On a team with Jordan, Pippen, etc, Rodzilla was the guy that stood out in that game. 

Even though it'd be a lesser team, I'd gladly take Rudy Gay over LeBron, just because I actually like Gay and would be a "fan". Right now, there is exactly one guy on this team that I would tune in to watch, and that's Rose. They traded away the only other 2 recently (Tyrus when he played, and Kirk).


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

Yeah... I was a Hinrich fan... and a Tyrus fan... and a Tyson Chandler fan... and a Thabo Sefolosha fan... the list goes on and on at this point. I'm a bit in the same camp in terms of wanting guys that I can root for. I never did care for Ben Wallace, for example. Lebron is just that good... he's incredible to watch... I think he'd win you over.


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

I was definateley a fan of Hinrich as well. He played the game the right way. In some ways Ill miss the dude and I definateley wish him well. BG and Tyrus were different for me, (although BG always seemed like a good guy) both of those guys never felt like "winners" to me. They were very good at a few specicific things and awful at the rest of the game. 

Lebron has certainly been annoying at times. No question. But it has never really come across as malicious just kind of like he is having fun out there. Albeit fun with an enormous ego. But I could get on board with it. If he's on our squad and we are pooping on the rest of the league. 

I just want this team to get as good as possible and the guys we lost are just part of the process, hopefully we can add some of these stars and get back to our championship days.


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## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

Dornado said:


> Yeah... I was a Hinrich fan... and a Tyrus fan... and a Tyson Chandler fan... and a Thabo Sefolosha fan... the list goes on and on at this point. I'm a bit in the same camp in terms of wanting guys that I can root for. I never did care for Ben Wallace, for example. Lebron is just that good... he's incredible to watch... I think he'd win you over.


LOL yeah, was never a Thabo fan although he did show flashes. Tyson as well. I always hated Benedict Wallace. This whole Hinrich thing is pretty close to the straw that broke the camel's back for me. So sick of the cheap bastards dumping guys every other year. If not for Rose, I'd be done with them, seriously. Enough is enough. Gotta have SOMEONE worth cheering for on the team. If every other year they keep dumping off your favorite players just to save money, then to hell with em (them being Reinsdorff, and the FO).

LeBron is a talent, and that's the only reason I wouldn't be pissed if we got him. I can see no way I'll ever be a fan. It'll be a necessary evil to me, and I'll always cheer for every other guy on the roster to do well and make the big play instead of him (IF we get him).


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

I have no problem cheering for Rose, Noah, Gibson, Deng, and James Johnson... and that's pretty much our whole roster right now.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

Lebron is not a bad guy, in reality Jordan was a HORRIBLE person in real life but the difference is there was never no doubt in my mind that Jordan wanted to win at all cost and he delivered. I just dont get that same feeling with Lebron, I feel like when the chips are down and his fade away 3 point shot is not going down, Lebron kind of just goes through the motions.


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

thebizkit69u said:


> Lebron is not a bad guy, in reality Jordan was a HORRIBLE person in real life but the difference is there was never no doubt in my mind that Jordan wanted to win at all cost and he delivered. I just dont get that same feeling with Lebron, I feel like when the chips are down and his fade away 3 point shot is not going down, Lebron kind of just goes through the motions.


I think you are pretty far off here. There is a site and I can't find it right now, that tracks a players"clutch stats". Basically their per 48 minute stats in the final 5 minutes of a game when the game is within 5 points. I have only seen the last 2 years of that stat and Lebron completeley dominated in those situations, like by far the best in the NBA. The dude just doesn't have a good team around him, that's all. Look at Kobe, he such a rep for being a "winner and clutch" But he shot 40% from the field in that finals series and his team picked him up at the end of almost every game. And the lakers won, if Lebron had done that in a series the Cavs would have gotten smoked.


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## Wynn (Jun 3, 2002)

DaBabyBullz said:


> I was the same way with Kobe, and it's still stuck on my avatar since I can't figure out how to get rid of it lol.


Go to "User CP" and choose "Edit Profile" from the list on the left of the screen... This is the "Custom User Title".


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## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

Wynn said:


> Go to "User CP" and choose "Edit Profile" from the list on the left of the screen... This is the "Custom User Title".


I don't see the custom user title in there. I've been in the user cp and edit profile part many times tryin to figure it out, but they changed the format of all this stuff since I put that on there, so idk anymore lol. (I just went and checked again, and I don't see "Custom User Title" anywhere.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

caseyrh said:


> I think you are pretty far off here. There is a site and I can't find it right now, that tracks a players"clutch stats". Basically their per 48 minute stats in the final 5 minutes of a game when the game is within 5 points. I have only seen the last 2 years of that stat and Lebron completeley dominated in those situations, like by far the best in the NBA. The dude just doesn't have a good team around him, that's all. Look at Kobe, he such a rep for being a "winner and clutch" But he shot 40% from the field in that finals series and his team picked him up at the end of almost every game. And the lakers won, if Lebron had done that in a series the Cavs would have gotten smoked.


I never said Lebron was not clutch, what I said is when his shot is not going in or when it looks like the game is over he kind of just disappears, but I might be a bit unfair because I'm just going off the Boston series where he just completely stopped caring

But you are flat out wrong about Lebron playing on a bad team, Bad teams do not win 60+ games, it just does not happen. If you want to say that his team was not very clutch in the playoff's I will agree 100%, but those Cavalier teams where built to compliment Lebron's strengths.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

Dornado said:


> Yeah, I was openly against the Kobe thing because I was pretty sure he had raped a girl and I wasn't looking forward to having to root for him... with Lebron the offenses are less egregious.. I didn't like the dancing around thing, and he definitely has the ego you'd expect someone with his celebrity to have. Lebron is such a transcendent talent though... if he were by some miracle to sign with the Bulls I would be absolutely thrilled, and would forget all of the nonsense. Hell, I forgave Dennis Rodman after a myriad of cheap shots directed at the Bulls... I can forgive Lebron for doing a jig or two.



People seem to forget Michael Jordan was a pretty big jerk, too. It's funny what some winning will do.


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

thebizkit69u said:


> I never said Lebron was not clutch, what I said is when his shot is not going in or when it looks like the game is over he kind of just disappears, but I might be a bit unfair because I'm just going off the Boston series where he just completely stopped caring
> 
> But you are flat out wrong about Lebron playing on a bad team, Bad teams do not win 60+ games, it just does not happen. If you want to say that his team was not very clutch in the playoff's I will agree 100%, but those Cavalier teams where built to compliment Lebron's strengths.


Lebron also took a starting lineup of:

Sasha Pavlovic
Larry Hughes
Lebron James
Drew Gooden
Zydrunas Ilgauskus

to the finals... we've seen how good some of those guys are without him (not very). Lebron carries that team... he has no Pippen, no Ho Grant/Rodman... just a bunch of role players and Antwan Jamison who baffles me at this point.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

DaBabyBullz said:


> LOL yeah, was never a Thabo fan although he did show flashes. Tyson as well. I always hated Benedict Wallace. This whole Hinrich thing is pretty close to the straw that broke the camel's back for me. So sick of the cheap bastards dumping guys every other year. If not for Rose, I'd be done with them, seriously. Enough is enough. Gotta have SOMEONE worth cheering for on the team. If every other year they keep dumping off your favorite players just to save money, then to hell with em (them being Reinsdorff, and the FO).
> 
> LeBron is a talent, and that's the only reason I wouldn't be pissed if we got him. I can see no way I'll ever be a fan. It'll be a necessary evil to me, and I'll always cheer for every other guy on the roster to do well and make the big play instead of him (IF we get him).




They didn't dump Hinrich to save money. They dumped him to spend money.


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

Dornado said:


> Lebron also took a starting lineup of:
> 
> Sasha Pavlovic
> Larry Hughes
> ...


Good lord that team is ugly. I kinda forgot about that. Lebron is a beast.


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## BenDengGo (Feb 1, 2004)

i used to hate lebron, because i was afraid that he could end upp being better than mj. but i've been following him for the last two years and this guy ist just an incredible talent.

that clevland roster he took to the finals sucked incredibly!!!


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

Dornado said:


> Lebron also took a starting lineup of:
> 
> Sasha Pavlovic
> Larry Hughes
> ...


Yet hes had better individual years and better teammates since that team and hes still failed to make it to the finals. That team was a fluke, I honestly have to chuck it up to getting hot at the right time and not playing against great teams in the playoff's.

Heck the Knicks made the finals led by Latrell Spreewell lol. Ugh I hate thinking about terrible finals teams.


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

thebizkit69u said:


> Yet hes had better individual years and better teammates since that team and hes still failed to make it to the finals. That team was a fluke, I honestly have to chuck it up to getting hot at the right time and not playing against great teams in the playoff's.
> 
> Heck the Knicks made the finals led by Latrell Spreewell lol. Ugh I hate thinking about terrible finals teams.


Come on... The knicks in addition to Sprewell had: Ewing, Camby, Allan Houston, Kurt Thomas, Larry Johnson.

That is a far cry from the bums Lebron played with. And Sprewell really wan't even the best player on the knicks.


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## fuzznuts (May 23, 2006)

i cant believe people are even thinking twice about LBJ.

also cannot get over the fact that I read somewhere on this post that somone would rather have Rudy Gay over LBJ?
YIKES


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

caseyrh said:


> Come on... The knicks in addition to Sprewell had: Ewing, Camby, Allan Houston, Kurt Thomas, Larry Johnson.
> 
> That is a far cry from the bums Lebron played with. And Sprewell really wan't even the best player on the knicks.


Dont you remember how bad Ewing was that year, he was almost as bad as this years Cav's version of Shaq.

Playoffs
Spree 20 4 4 on 41% ugh
Houston 18 2 2 on 44%
Johnson 11 5 1 on 42% 
Ewing dint play in the Finals
Camby was on with 10 and 7 on 56%

Either way I guess the Knicks and Cav's are just anomalies, teams that bad should never be in the finals.


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## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

fuzznuts said:


> i cant believe people are even thinking twice about LBJ.
> 
> also cannot get over the fact that I read somewhere on this post that somone would rather have Rudy Gay over LBJ?
> YIKES


Yes, it's called liking someone, and disliking someone. There's more to it than just winning, believe it or not. I prefer to actually enjoy watching my team. I would enjoy watching Rudy Gay. I do NOT enjoy watching LeBron and his antics, and I've thought from day 1 that he just had an UGLY game. He's improved, but he still has zero appeal to me. If not for Rose, I'd be outta here and cheering for the Thunder & Magic (which I will do anyway, but if not for Rose, I'd also say F U to the Bulls, after 22 years. Quite frankly, I'm sick of their BS since the dynasty years. So since I like Rose a lot, that's the only redeeming quality/entity left in the team. I have zero allegiance or affinity towards any other players currently on the team, and I don't even know the coach.)


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

I'm late to the game here...

Basically I think this is a great trade for both teams.

Bulls don't really need Hinrich anymore (apparently Joe Johnson is a lock to sign here), nor does Hinrich deserve to be relegated to a permanent bench role.

In Washington, the Wizards get a proven insurance policy for their prized #1 pick to bring him along slowly (very much like Rose in Chicago), a great mentor, and a productive partner in the backcourt. Hinrich will also bring them some MUCH needed defense, which they haven't had in forever.

People criticize Washington for settling too much, but I think they are making a great move. Their cap space wasn't gonna land them anyone big and that team is all about John Wall now. Hinrich is someone who will make John Wall better.


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## Wynn (Jun 3, 2002)

DaBabyBullz said:


> Yes, it's called liking someone, and disliking someone. There's more to it than just winning, believe it or not. I prefer to actually enjoy watching my team. I would enjoy watching Rudy Gay. I do NOT enjoy watching LeBron and his antics, and I've thought from day 1 that he just had an UGLY game. He's improved, but he still has zero appeal to me. *If not for Rose, I'd be outta here* and cheering for the Thunder & Magic (which I will do anyway, but if not for Rose, I'd also say F U to the Bulls, after 22 years. Quite frankly, I'm sick of their BS since the dynasty years. So since I like Rose a lot, that's the only redeeming quality/entity left in the team. I have zero allegiance or affinity towards any other players currently on the team, and I don't even know the coach.)


So what do we have to do to trade Rose, guys? Come on, let's get creative!


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## fuzznuts (May 23, 2006)

DaBabyBullz said:


> There's more to it than just winning, believe it or not.


Winning is everything. (winning = money. and unfortunately my friend, the NBA is a business, and liking someone over winning is just not going to cut it.)


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## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

fuzznuts said:


> Winning is everything. (winning = money. and unfortunately my friend, the NBA is a business, and liking someone over winning is just not going to cut it.)


I'm talking about how it is with me personally. Like that POS Kobe, if they had signed him, I wouldn't have watched another Bulls game till he's gone. I refuse to watch him play for even a second. If I am switching channels and he's on, I change the channel as soon as I see him. I do the same thing with Obama. Some people the mere sight of them just makes me sick and gets my blood boiling, like those 2.

Sure Reinsdorff is all about the money. Doesn't mean I am.


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## BullsBaller (Oct 6, 2002)

Although it would have been nice to keep Kirk b/c I think Rose and him would have continued to make each other better and his contract was going down, all in all this was a good trade. Its all about flexibility. Other players in the league who aren't FAs and are upset w/ their present teams can force a trade as well. With all the xtra cash and assets, the Bulls are now quite intriguing. The main thing it did was allow the Bulls to keep Noah by now being able to sign 2 max FAs outright, as opposed to signing 1 FA outright and then doing a s&t. If they did a s&t with Bosh, Noah would've had to of been the bate b/c Toronto would not go for Deng. If Bosh gave his former team an ultimatum, they would have said, "Ok go to Chicago, were not doing a s&t with them unless we get Noah. Good luck!"


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