# Whos better. Part #2



## Tersk (Apr 9, 2004)

Well, we've basically finished the Jamison vs Stackhouse thread so I am putting in my second question which is also my second last

Who do you want in the future? Josh Howard or Marquis Daniels, and why?


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## The Future7 (Feb 24, 2005)

I would choose Josh Howard. His defense is great and he's only going to get better. Howard also scores pretty well and hustles. Daniels is a very good scorer but I dont know how good he will be in the future.


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## CLUTCH#41 (Mar 22, 2005)

I chose Josh Howard.He hustles gets rebounds,Doesnt have to score to be effective,Hes taller so he can defend taller players like peja,even though he didnt do it last night.We havent seen Daniels true potential yet beacause of his injury.But no matter what both of these guys are important pieces to our future.


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## Mavs41 (Feb 22, 2005)

I think that Josh Howard is going to be better because he has more all around skills. Also, he seems to be more consistant on a night to night basis. He has the potential to be an all star IMO.


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## maverette04131 (Feb 5, 2005)

Man, I wasn't really paying attention to the title. I thought it said "who is better at #2" refering to the shooting guard position. So i picked Marquis...but since the question is who is better then I would pick J-HO.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

This is a very tough decision, but I think I'll have to side with Howard. Howard is going to be a shutdown defender, and is developing a solid offensive game. Even if he doesn't develop into more than a 10-12 point scorer, there's a bigger pool for "instant offense" guards out there then there is for good defensive specialists, especially on the perimeter. Good thing this isn't a real choice Cuban had to make, because it'd certainly be agonizing. Marquis reminds me a lot of Finley at a young age. I think Howard can eventually develop into a Corey Maggette with better defense.


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## aussiewill (Jan 20, 2005)

While JHo will win this poll, it isn't to say that Marquis will not make something of himself. Currently JHo is better because of his great defensive abilities and can be relied of for am open jumper. In comparison to Marquis, JHo has developed quicker, thus why he will win this as everyone is looking at what they are now, not what will become of. 

Marquis is a bit raw, he is flashy and wont bring you his 10ppg atm. He has a lot of athleticism and probably just wins the battle there against JHo. In a few years down the track he will have a far superior offensive ability than JHo as well. However I imagine that JHo will be a far better defender than Marquis. 

I think by default, Marquis will be better, as the purpose of the game is to score points that. These offensive superstarsget the media's attention, rather than good hustling defenders. Take for example the difference between Vince Carter and Ben Wallace, Vince certainly would be called better, but only because he has far superior offensive abilities in comparison to Be's far superior defensive abilities.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

aussiewill said:


> I think by default, Marquis will be better, as the purpose of the game is to score points that. These offensive superstarsget the media's attention, rather than good hustling defenders. Take for example the difference between Vince Carter and Ben Wallace, Vince certainly would be called better, but only because he has far superior offensive abilities in comparison to Be's far superior defensive abilities.


No, not by default. The purpose of the game is to score more than the other team, but, as we have learned the past few years, you cannot simply outscore. Defense is the other half of the game. 

If the decisions were up the media, we wouldn't need to play any games, and team owners would just hand in pieces of paper with their rosters on it. This isn't about who the media likes, because there are plenty of big mouth players who get media coverage when far superior players get overlooked. That shouldn't even begin to be the basis for judging talent. 

Yes, people would rather sit and watch a slam dunk rather than a blocked one, but that's because it's more entertaining. If the question was who was more exciting, chances are it'd be Daniels, because of his ability to dazzle offensively. But that's not the question here. Who's better? Howard, because his advantage over Daniels when you talk about defense is the determining factor. It's a lot easier to find a shooting guard who can flat out score than it is to find one who can flat out shut a player down. Howard is the more complete player. Daniels is the better scorer, and probably the better passer, but Howard is better in every aspect of the game, and is improving gradually on the offensive end.


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## aussiewill (Jan 20, 2005)

I'm not disagreeing with you that JHo is currently better, I actually said that in my second sentence, but the poll is who *will* be better and IMO Marquis will be. I can see him being a poor mans AI in the future and if he has half the talent of AI he will be a great starting 2. Marquis averages 1.5 spg in 26.3min which is quite good IMO, so he can put some pressure on defenders as well, just not to the level of JHo. He has upped his rebounding productivity more as well whioch gives him more value.

For JHo he has much better stats, but he will get that while being a starter. So if this poll was made today JHo will get it, but in the future Marquis will be IMO.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

aussiewill said:


> I'm not disagreeing with you that JHo is currently better, I actually said that in my second sentence, but the poll is who *will* be better and IMO Marquis will be. I can see him being a poor mans AI in the future and if he has half the talent of AI he will be a great starting 2. Marquis averages 1.5 spg in 26.3min which is quite good IMO, so he can put some pressure on defenders as well, just not to the level of JHo. He has upped his rebounding productivity more as well whioch gives him more value.
> 
> For JHo he has much better stats, but he will get that while being a starter. So if this poll was made today JHo will get it, but in the future Marquis will be IMO.


 Well, I guess we'll just agree to disagree. Daniels has the advantage on offense, but he still has a respectable defensive game, and vice versa with Howard. I'd just rather take the guy who's the defensive specialist who can still score. 

And add me to your club.


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## Tersk (Apr 9, 2004)

Let's take a small look at the comparing players stats

_Marquis Daniels vs Josh Howard_ 
10.7 - *Points Per Game* - 12.4
4.3 - *Rebounds Per Game* - 6.5
2.2 - *Assists Per Game* - 1.4
1.50 - *Steals Per Game* - 1.55
.24 - *Blocks Per Game* - .66
.437 - *Field Goal Percentage* - .466
.732 - *Free Throw Percentage* - .717
.194 - *3 Point Percentage* - .292
26.3 - *Minutes Per Game* - 32.6

*DEFENSE* 

Josh Howard takes this one fairly easily, he's put a body on various players around the league
- Richard Jefferson (who had come off succesive 30+ point nights)
- Dwyane Wade
- Tracy McGrady (Marquis marked him the 48 point night, Josh marked him the 15 point night on poor shooting)
- Kobe Bryant*, and last but certainly not least
- A new and reformed Vince Carter
* indicates that Kobe went for 40 points against us, Erick Dampier was injured (having a low post prescense really heaps a perimter defender, think about how much Tayshaun Prince benefits from how the Wallace and Wallace co. down low) and Kobe Bryant was having a freakish night (damn crazy acrobatic layups, shots were just dropping).

Josh has all the right tools to become a great defensive player in this league, if you watch his feet you'll realize he has a good defensive IQ, not afraid of big names, long arms whic help when: Trying to reach in to pick pocket, Block Shots, Interfer in the passing lane, Stop the inbounds pass & get a hand in his mans face. I will go out on a limb and say Josh will be a future All-NBA defensive team player, and he has a good chance this year depending on where he's listed. 

With all that in mind, Marquis still is an above average defender. I can't count how many times I wanted him in the clutch defending somebody this season. Unfortunately injuries have taken a toll on his ankle, and has had some illness. His absence was dealthy for this team, we had to get Michael Finley on the oppostions second best offensive player...see that? We need Marquis here to guard the opponets *second* best offensive player, Josh was too busy guarding the *best* offensive player

Josh Howard also has a good two inches on Marquis, meaning he has a better _chance_ at guarding the post. Marquis basically is non-existant if your looking for a post defender, but Josh can do it, and has done it. Whilst he's not going to be marking Amare Stoudemire or Shaquille O'Neal, Josh has already done a good job on BBB.net most loved Kevin Garnett

*OFFENSE*

Offense will include playmaking ability, for the record. People will look at this and say "Oh Marquis definately, he can play PG with ease". Yes, Marquis is a more adept ball handler but the situation goes far beyond that. Marquis does not work at the PG position for over a few minutes, I've seen too much of Quis bringing the ball upcourt only to settle for a questionable jumper or drive it in for a suspect layup. He brings the teams offense down, something that he should work on (pin point passes). When Quis heads to the bench, our offensive input increases by 7.2 points per 100 possesions -- surely a sign that he slows down our run'n'gun offense too much

Marquis Daniels is better at putting the ball in the basket, but Josh Howard is one of the most underrated offensive players in the league. Josh has showed time and time again that he can step up if needed (30 against the Suns, 25 against Bucks, 26 against Knicks & the list goes on). In the 3 games Nowitzki has missed this season, Howard stepped up to become our 2nd leading scorer on one of the top FG%, including a massive rise in his 3 point percentage. Yes, it's a small sample size but he produced in those matches -- and considering they were all basically from a different time in the season you get a fairly decent idea. Still on Dirk's missed games, Marquis obviously tried to do too much. He _did_ lead Dallas in scoring (+2 on Josh), but his FG% was horrific: 36%

Their Points Per 48 number equate out to be almost identical (Quis infront half a point), the higher percentage shot that Josh has puts his offensive game above Marquis' IMO. In a game were every basket counts, Josh' 4% better shot can make the world of difference. With Dirk downlow in the paint, an established shooter will be needed for kickoffs, Josh shoots a massive 10% better from the 3 land -- making his surprisingly weak shot seem great compared to Marquis

*OVERALL* 

Boy, am I glad that Don Nelson found not one, but two diamonds in the rough in the 2003 draft. I love having them both here, but if I was forced to choose -- I would most definately keep Josh Howard now and for the future. This kid is a leader, as shown at Wake Forest and his inspirational defense here. The future is brighter than Albert Einstein for these kids, but Josh is just simply amazing. He fit's in much better in this *D*allas Mavericks team, in our top 15 5 man units on the court (on 82games, it shows every teams top 20 5 man units), Josh appears 11 out of the first 15 ranked lineups, Marquis appears a petty 3 times.


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## Mavs Dude (Jul 20, 2003)

JHow easily. He is a top 5 defender in the league right now. He hustles every game and just is an all round great player. I just wish that he could start shooting like he did at Wake.


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## Kunlun (Jun 22, 2003)

I like Josh Howard better, he's a good defender and he plays within the offense. I really enjoy watching players like that and I think Josh would be good on any team.


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## KokoTheMonkey (Aug 4, 2003)

Had Marquis Daniels stayed healthy this season and played 25-30 MPG, he would have had a much better shot at getting votes in this poll. However, from what I've seen, Howard is the better player. Howard has great basketball instincts and always seems to be in the right spot.


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## fuzzrhythm (Feb 22, 2005)

I chose Josh Howard. He hustles more than Pete Rose, is a lock down defender, and offensively he scores in the flow of things. He rarely gets a play called for him, he just takes a jumper if he's open or drives if there's a hole in the defense. And his instincts for rebounding are uncanny for a skinny 6-7 small forward.


Daniels is coming back from being out nearly half the season with various ailments. At the present, I don't really like the way he plays on offense. I have the impression he's somewhat of a ball hog. Tonight's game against the Cavs is the first time I EVER recall him passing to anyone else on a fast break, and I've seen him on many fast breaks where I was yelling at the TV "gah! pass it to the wing! he's got a wide open layup!" and Daniels takes it to the rack and blows the layup. If he can improve on these weaknesses then I call it a tie :cheers:


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## Amir (Mar 2, 2005)

I will not vote, cause I want both of them playing and contributing in a long run!


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