# Zeke's Wish list?



## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

In my opinion if you are going to build around a center you need to give him a sidekick personally, one that compliments his abilities if they could send Charles oakley for a dip into the fountain of youth it would be perfect for the knicks . 

he defended the lane , he could hit a 15 fter, good passer , hit the boards like few others, he guarded his man well and he gave his team an overall sense of toughness and intensity .

If you have such a guy generally you hold onto him until ewing no longer was the focus of the team .

I think there are basically 2 such candidates currently in the nba that are available for the right price.

1. shelden williams , from nbadraft.net 


> Strengths: Burly power forward with a no nonsense approach ... Great experience, 4 years at Duke has given him a strong foundation with a great skill level and solid fundamentals ... Hard worker who has developed a reputation as a great kid ... Extremely strong body ... Deceptively quick and athletic ... Sticks to playing in the post, where he dominates on the NCAA level ... Tremendous wingspan allows him to play like a 7 footer ... A real defensive presence, a shot blocker who won national defensive player of the year as a junior ... Averages close to 4 blocks per game as a senior ... Should be able to guard centers in the NBA ... Great rebounding ability, boxes out well ... Understands how to defend, has become disciplined (blocks a ton of shots without fouling out very often) ... Range on his jumpshot has shown improvement through hard work, along with his free throw shooting ... Fairly consistent out to 12-15 feet ... Posts up well and uses his strength well to score ... His post moves have really developed well in his 4 years at Duke, including hooks and drop steps ... Touch around the basket is good and converts well after contact ... .


some of this actually translated , alot of it did not happen this year as a hawk, he basically cant score in the post , but has shown some ability to hit short jumpshots , and defensive tenacity , but not yet impactful, probably in all likelyhood will make that jump next season because actually plays like he gives a darn about defense.

he may come relatively cheap considering he was such a high draft pick (the hawks reached on him big time though).

.2 Nene , who could have been aquired for an expiring contract before the season (they wanted to be part of the PJ.Brown tyson chandler deal and wanted Brown for Nene....the bulls refused)

due to his resurgence he may not come so cheap this year but he is probably still pretty cheap considering he is a powerful post player who rebounds and scores decently around the basket been avg. about 15 and 8 on 59% in 32 min. the last 2 months, but he's still somewhat overpaid considering his contributions and the fact that their need for him still really isn't all that great with camby playing the way he is.

what do you guys think?


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## da1nonly (May 8, 2006)

Nene's not going anywhere. Shelden Williams- never saw him play. Lakers right now right?


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## ChosenFEW (Jun 23, 2005)

na.....i think whats high on Isiahs wish list is a legitimate shooter...


someone where if you leave him open they're going to knock the 3 in.......i think thats what he'll be looking for.....not more tweener forwards


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## Truknicksfan (Mar 25, 2005)

On my wish list it has zeke going away.:clap:


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

ChosenFEW said:


> na.....i think whats high on Isiahs wish list is a legitimate shooter...
> 
> 
> someone where if you leave him open they're going to knock the 3 in.......i think thats what he'll be looking for.....not more tweener forwards


i dont think shooting is as high a priorty as some make it out to be .

if so nate would play more , he is easily the best shooter on the team available ...Zeke is being true to form and is playing mardy , who has been good , but really cant shoot yet.


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## USSKittyHawk (Jul 22, 2005)

Truknicksfan said:


> On my wish list it has zeke going away.:clap:


Amen to that! :laugh:


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## ChosenFEW (Jun 23, 2005)

Da Grinch said:


> i dont think shooting is as high a priorty as some make it out to be .
> 
> if so nate would play more , he is easily the best shooter on the team available ...Zeke is being true to form and is playing mardy , who has been good , but really cant shoot yet.


Nate might be the best available shooter on the team according to you, but thats just it. ON THE TEAM. compared to other legitimate 3 point shooters nate cant hold a candle to them.

I was watching the Heat and cavs game on TNT(i think) and i see the heat guards hanging back behind the 3 point line throwing the ball into shaq. Just as they lob it in to shaq you have jason williams and james posey hanging about 2 feet away from the 3 point line waiting to jack up open three's when shaq feels like passing it. This right here held the defense in check and forced varegao to play shaq 1 on 1 in the post(shaq got the layup). This is a luxury we dont have on the team. giving the ball to curry only to have marbury and jeffries or frye hanging around the 3 point line isnt going to make opposing teams shy away from doubling or triple teaming EDDY.

I actually think it is a very important to get some shooters in here A.S.A.P


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

ChosenFEW said:


> Nate might be the best available shooter on the team according to you, but thats just it. ON THE TEAM. compared to other legitimate 3 point shooters nate cant hold a candle to them.
> 
> I was watching the Heat and cavs game on TNT(i think) and i see the heat guards hanging back behind the 3 point line throwing the ball into shaq. Just as they lob it in to shaq you have jason williams and james posey hanging about 2 feet away from the 3 point line waiting to jack up open three's when shaq feels like passing it. This right here held the defense in check and forced varegao to play shaq 1 on 1 in the post(shaq got the layup). This is a luxury we dont have on the team. giving the ball to curry only to have marbury and jeffries or frye hanging around the 3 point line isnt going to make opposing teams shy away from doubling or triple teaming EDDY.
> 
> I actually think it is a very important to get some shooters in here A.S.A.P


outside of jason kapono , the heat shooter really are not that much better than nate , if at all.

jason williams is shooting .406 from the field .335 from 3 with a career 3 point % of .322
eddie jones .423 and .350, career in 3's.375
james posey .423 .356 career in 3's.344
gary payton .395 .267 career in 3's.317
dorrell wright .441 .121 career in 3's.163
dwayne wade.494 .267 career in 3's.250

nate is shooting .426 .354 career in 3's.374

i agree the knicks need more shooters but they have outside of kapono of course basically what the heat have in the category of outside shooting in francis , marbury , JC and Q ...the problem is of course that 3 of those 4 are hurt , and in their place are balkman , collins and jeffries, guys who really cant shoot .

i stand by my original point if zeke wanted more shooting nate would just be playing more , but thomas wants others things more right now , like ball control , heady play , consistent defensive effort and size.


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## ChosenFEW (Jun 23, 2005)

as soon as i hit submit i knew you were going to turn it into a statfest but maybe i shouldve said something else.


statistically the heat team could be the worst shooters in the world. THE POINT IS the defense respected them enough to not double team shaq. Obviously by watching i dont know, ummmmmmm, like ALMOST ALL the games this season you can see nobody respects our outside shooting with all the doubles and triple teams curry gets



but i agree zeke is also looking for other things as well......the knicks need a lot of work everyone knows that


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

ChosenFEW said:


> as soon as i hit submit i knew you were going to turn it into a statfest but maybe i shouldve said something else.
> 
> 
> statistically the heat team could be the worst shooters in the world. THE POINT IS the defense respected them enough to not double team shaq. Obviously by watching i dont know, ummmmmmm, like ALMOST ALL the games this season you can see nobody respects our outside shooting with all the doubles and triple teams curry gets
> ...


i put up the stats because the heat really aren't good shooters outside of kapono , its pretty much a known fact .

all i said was if Zeke thought shooting was so important he could have simply played the team's best shooter more (which happens to be Nate),

he does not do that obviously , you are the one who made it about the Heat's shooters , even though I think Shaq's passing ability is far more deadly to opposing teams , he is as a good a decision maker as basically any point guard in the league...he can literally dissect the opposing team by constanly getting open shots for teammates...also the heat run a very complex offense built on misdirection helping making the players even more open for jumpshots and cuts.

and i think its been rather obvious that Curry has been getting swarmed ever since Lee , crawford and qrich went down , the other teams doubled before but it was not nearly what it could have been because the knicks had credible threats out there even if Curry is a pretty atrocious passer (although improving lately) but getting a bad pass to lee is better than a good one to jeffries because of what the player does once he gets it.


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## Truknicksfan (Mar 25, 2005)

> all i said was if Zeke thought shooting was so important he could have simply played the team's best shooter more (which happens to be Nate)


I could see zeke thinking shooting was important and not playing Nate. Nates a turnover or bone head play waiting to happen. So no matter how good his shot is, if he stays a dummy he will never see minutes from any coach in the league.

He’s a very good shooter, but it gets negated because he will find a way to hand the game over to the other team somehow.


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## Phoenix32 (Nov 1, 2006)

I have read that Isiah wants KG, Carter, Gerald Wallace... 

Williams??? Isah gonna crazy, maybe he didin't saw how he played fo Barca... He is unpredictable, like Francis, Marbury, Knicks needen't playaz like Williams...


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## Kiyaman (Aug 14, 2006)

*Zeke had a great chance untill he traded with the Bulls for Curry & Davis!!! *


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## step (Sep 19, 2005)

> Zeke had a great chance untill he traded with the Bulls for Curry & Davis!!!


There is no use complaining about it now, nothing can or will be done. Plus the trade wasn't that terrible as you make it out to be.

The jumper lesson for Curry really should be put on hold for another season, play hot potato with the guy and get his passing up to par. Then get him to be able to read the double and triple teams and be able to get it out without throwing it away. If he could do that, he'd be a force to be reckoned with.

Curry and Lee make such a good pair imo that it would be worthwhile looking at trading him, for what I don't know.

One shooter that can be had for cheap, Adam Morrison. Putting him in a spot up shooter role (no idea why he believes he can put the ball on the floor) he would be quite successful. Together with Balkman as your wing players, team needs are covered, just play them whenever required.


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

Da Grinch said:


> In my opinion if you are going to build around a center you need to give him a sidekick personally, one that compliments his abilities if they could send Charles oakley for a dip into the fountain of youth it would be perfect for the knicks .
> 
> he defended the lane , he could hit a 15 fter, good passer , hit the boards like few others, he guarded his man well and he gave his team an overall sense of toughness and intensity .
> 
> ...



I haven't been able to really check up on most of the other stuff that has been going on, on the board but I feel compelled to respond to this post in brief. A few days earlier, I recall that a Kevin Garnett rumor was published in the post which shed light on the fact that the Wolves are considering trading him this summer. Probably the guy that should stop Isiah's wish list, would be Kevin Garnett because he's really the only individual that would make any kind of significant difference on this team. I think it's safe to say that we have a collection of excellent players but none have the ability at this point to carry a team, whereas Garnett can. If you pawn off our young players aside from Curry and Marbury, we very well might have enough left to be put into championship contention. *A package that essentially features Channing Frye, Nate Robinson, Randolph Morris, our 1st round pick (after the selection is made), either Ronaldo Balkman or David Lee and Steve Francis for Garnett and a horrible Wolves contract, might get the deal done.* The only thing that could stop us might be the fact that the Bulls could enter the picture if they choose to give up either Deng, Hinrich or Gordon along with the rest of their young players in exchange for Garnett. The fact that they no longer will have PJ Brown under contract though hurts their chances significantly considering that they'd have no large contracts to match Garnett's.

The talent coming out of the draft the next couple of years make it very hard to imagine bringing in Garnett. While he would make us instant contenders, there are no gaurantees that we'll win a title; and many of the players leaving college now are good enough to build us into a very strong team (given Isiah's eye for talent). Knowing and understanding that, I might consider just acquiring Drew Gooden and Gerald Wallace and rebuild the "right right (and I stress the quotation marks)."


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

twinkie , 

i agree with you KG is of course at the top of any wish list , but until the wolves actually want to let him go he's just not available and its really a shame , because he deserves better than the teams he's been forced to play with in minny ,its not even that important he goes to NY , that he goes anywhere that he can be important on the nba landscape again.


basically any package the knicks offer will improve them...he's just that good....all he really needs is a guard who can take big shots in the 4th quarter.

the guy is basically going to go through his career apparently without being on a team that he can realistically challenge for a title...unless of course they trade him , I have zero faith that Mchale can make a team thats strong enough.


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## step (Sep 19, 2005)

> I have zero faith that Mchale can make a team thats strong enough.


No need to worry there, he's stepping aside and Hoiberg will inherit the mess. Even if the poor guy trades KG, they're far from a rebuilding process.

One has to wonder is if you do put all your eggs into the KG basket, will it be enough to convince him to stay? He can easily opt out and walk away leaving the team with nothing in return.

Also there is no need to worry about the Bulls, their chance to trade for KG has gone. Paxson wasn't willing to part with Deng and company for Gasol, he won't part with more to land KG.



> I might consider just acquiring Drew Gooden and Gerald Wallace


Good luck. Even if Wallace opts to leave Charlotte, chances are he'll go to a contender or another team that has money, which Milwaukee and Orlando have plenty of and the playing time to boot.

Drew Gooden would be perfect, put him next to Curry and you can spend the whole game working out which was is more clueless on the defensive end.


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

step said:


> No need to worry there, he's stepping aside and Hoiberg will inherit the mess. Even if the poor guy trades KG, they're far from a rebuilding process.
> 
> One has to wonder is if you do put all your eggs into the KG basket, will it be enough to convince him to stay? He can easily opt out and walk away leaving the team with nothing in return.
> 
> ...


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## step (Sep 19, 2005)

> The presence of an excellent defender like Gerald Wallace might help matters even more.


So he'll be covering not only his man, but Gooden's and Curry's?


> As for Gerald Wallace, the premise behind bringing him to New York would be to do so in a sign and trade. The fact that we can do that and offer the Bobcats assets in return should mean that we'd be ahead of Orlando and Milwaukee in those sweepstakes.


Then what separates the Knicks from all the other teams who can take this route? Milwaukee may not have much of an edge compared to the Knicks, but Orlando sure does.


> KG is emmensely a better player than Gasol. Honestly speaking, their is not one category that I believe Gasol best KG at this point. The fact that KG plays another end of the floor that Gasol has not seemed to realize should also mean that the Bulls would realize that they'd have to pony up more.


The asking price for Gasol was Gordon and Deng, since Garnett is immensely better (don't disagree with you on this)I would hate to see how much it would of taken to do such a trade.


> Them not trading for Gasol might have been a sign that they felt they could get a better player for essentially the same asking price who would put them closer to a title.


Who would that be? No other all-star calibre big was available.


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

step said:


> So he'll be covering not only his man, but Gooden's and Curry's?
> Then what separates the Knicks from all the other teams who can take this route? Milwaukee may not have much of an edge compared to the Knicks, but Orlando sure does.
> The asking price for Gasol was Gordon and Deng, since Garnett is immensely better (don't disagree with you on this)I would hate to see how much it would of taken to do such a trade.
> Who would that be? No other all-star calibre big was available.



Gooden is a capable defender. If you also know any aspect of help defense, you'll know that pressure may very well help both Curry and Gooden in the post once Wallace collapses. This concept worked pretty well with the Jazz defense that featured two mediocre defenders at the 4 and 5 spot with Boozer and Okur, covered by Andrei Kirilenko at the 3. No, Wallace is not Kirilenko but he can certainly play the part in this sense.

As for the Knicks in a sign and trade, we possess more assets than a team like the Magic. They don't necessarily have the contracts to send back to the Bobcats to take on a contract like what Wallace's will be.

The asking price for Gasol may have been Gordon and Deng but that does not mean it was realistic. By the time the deal was narrowed down, the Grizzlies were willing to do a deal that did not include any of the big Chicago 3 but backed down at the last moment. Needless to say, one of the big 3 will have to be included in a deal for Garnett considering his talent level.

P.S., in response to your last comment, I was referring to Garnett.


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## step (Sep 19, 2005)

> the Grizzlies were willing to do a deal that did not include any of the big Chicago 3 but backed down at the last moment.


If only that was remotely accurate.



> As for the Knicks in a sign and trade, we possess more assets than a team like the Magic. They don't necessarily have the contracts to send back to the Bobcats to take on a contract like what Wallace's will be.


They won't need to send anything back, they have a boat load of cap space to sign him outright. 



> P.S., in response to your last comment, I was referring to Garnett.


That's the thing, he wasn't available and they knew that. They'd also know that it was the last possible chance they could trade for him.


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

step said:


> If only that was remotely accurate.
> 
> They won't need to send anything back, they have a boat load of cap space to sign him outright.
> 
> That's the thing, he wasn't available and they knew that. They'd also know that it was the last possible chance they could trade for him.


In response to your first statement, I'm in the kind of guy that would actually back that kind of statement up with some sort of evidence or fact. That might just be me. I distinctly remember the reports being published right before the deadline that support what I said earlier.

Garnett was not available at the deadline but that does not mean the Bulls did not take into what his status might be in the near future. It's likely they passed on Gasol because the Wolves were not doing too hot and predicted having the opportunity to make a decision in the future about trading for KG. Worse case scenario, they just revisit the Gasol trade tis summer and make it if Garnett isn't available. Seems to me that it behooved them to wait to the offseason.


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## step (Sep 19, 2005)

> Garnett was not available at the deadline but that does not mean the Bulls did not take into what his status might be in the near future. It's likely they passed on Gasol because the Wolves were not doing too hot and predicted having the opportunity to make a decision in the future about trading for KG. Worse case scenario, they just revisit the Gasol trade tis summer and make it if Garnett isn't available. Seems to me that it behooved them to wait to the offseason.


They can no longer go after him unless they ship off about half the team or include their only other sizable salary in Ben Wallace. Everyone else on the team is on a rookie contract, earning roughly around the same as a rookie or lastly, BYC.



> I distinctly remember the reports being published right before the deadline that support what I said earlier.


The rumours weren't even close to it, it's way off the requirements set out by Heisley in his interview aswell. If that is all it would take, you'd think Boston's offer of anyone not named Pierce would of been more enticing.
If you really need clarification on this, paste it on the Bulls board and see what you get.


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

step said:


> They can no longer go after him unless they ship off about half the team or include their only other sizable salary in Ben Wallace. Everyone else on the team is on a rookie contract, earning roughly around the same as a rookie or lastly, BYC.
> 
> The rumours weren't even close to it, it's way off the requirements set out by Heisley in his interview aswell. If that is all it would take, you'd think Boston's offer of anyone not named Pierce would of been more enticing.
> If you really need clarification on this, paste it on the Bulls board and see what you get.



The Bulls payroll will stand at $43 million next year so it would be likely that they could take on more money than they trade, $10 million I believe. They wouldn't have to match dollar to dollar so a trade for KG might still be possible if they can muster up $10 million or so contracts.


As for the rumors, you might be right...


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