# Kobe + Lamar + Kwame?



## LamarButler (Apr 16, 2005)

I see them becoming a trio that's really hard to handle. All three cause matchup problems. 

Kobe is the best one-on-one player in the league and one of the most athletic. Kobe's got a broad arsenal of moves and offensive tools. He's really hard to stop going to the hole, he can get his shot off on anyone, has great accuracy, and he can even post up. With his great leaping skills he grabs a lot of rebounds for his position. He also makes the difference on defense. He can shut down just about any wing player.

Lamar is real tall for his position, and long also. He can post up smaller SF's and boss them around with his length and height. He can use his length and long arms to make it hard for SF's to get a shot off and still stop penetration while laying off of them. He'll out-rebound them considering he's 6'10 and averages 8.3 rebounds for his career. He even averaged 10.2 rebounds against bigger PF's. His ballhandling is on par with most guards and he is really quick for his size. Those are problems for PF's since he can blow past most of them.

Kwame is extremely athletic for a PF. He's got great leaping skills and he's quick, yet he's big. He can blow past most PF's and he can use his athleticism against them. He's a pretty good rebounder, and he averaged 2.4 offensive rebounds in 2003-04. He's a great one-on-one defender when he wants to be, and I think he's gonna play his hardest with a no-nonsense coach like Phil. 

So what do you guys think?


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## Shady* (Jul 3, 2005)

I think you're overrating Kwame a little, he might not even fit in LA we haven't seen him play and lets not forget he is a bust. We're taking a chance with him.

Lamar Odom is everything you said but it has become clear that he can not play well with Kobe. When Kobe was injured Lamar put up big numbers and Lakers had some success but when Kobe is on the court Lamar cannot operate since he doesn't get the ball in his hands.


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## K.O.B.E.B.R.Y.A.N.T. (Apr 3, 2004)

If Kwame can be consistent...we will definetly be hard to handle. The depth of our bench is still a major , major issue! I still belive Lamar and Kobe can co-exist and both put up big numbers!

*REUNITED AND IT FEELS SO GOOD.... :boohoo: *


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## LamarButler (Apr 16, 2005)

Sorry, I didn't watch the Bulls since I was too young when they were on their run. How did Scottie and MJ coexist? Looking at his stats, it seems Scottie was a pretty good three point shooter. 

How did D-Wade and Lamar coexist? They were pretty good, considering they went to the ECSF and took Indiana to 6. Wade IMO needs the ball a lot more than Kobe because most of his offense is slashing while Kobe can shoot fairly well.


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## ApheLion02 (Aug 5, 2005)

LamarButler said:


> Lamar is real tall for his position, and long also. He can post up smaller SF's and boss them around with his length and height. *He can use his length and long arms to make it hard for SF's to get a shot off and still stop penetration while laying off of them*. He'll out-rebound them considering he's 6'10 and averages 8.3 rebounds for his career. He even averaged 10.2 rebounds against bigger PF's. His ballhandling is on par with most guards and he is really quick for his size. Those are problems for PF's since he can blow past most of them.
> 
> Kwame is extremely athletic for a PF. He's got great leaping skills and he's quick, yet he's big. He can blow past most PF's and he can use his athleticism against them. He's a pretty good rebounder, and he averaged 2.4 offensive rebounds in 2003-04. He's a great one-on-one defender when he wants to be, and I think he's gonna play his hardest with a no-nonsense coach like Phil.
> 
> So what do you guys think?


Your describing Prince here. Everything you said about Odom is true, but he doesn't have the quickness and footwork necessary to consistently cut off penetration. He makes up for it on the other end however, by posting up. The problem with him is his inconsistency, and the fact that he has so many skills, he doesn't quite know his role. I expect PJ to help him tremendously in that regard.

I'm not sold on Kwame. What you have described are physical tools, but he hasn't done jack**** with them in his career. I am biased against him; I think its a crime to quit on your team (alledgedly inviting a stomach illness) in the playoffs. And "playing great defense when he wants to" doesn't say much, defense is almost all effort anyways. For any decently atheletic player, thats a truism. People have made excuses for Kwame all throughout his career, I think he just doesn't care, and Phil can't work miracles.


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## clien (Jun 2, 2005)

well lamars #s are obviously gonna look better w/ out kobe playing, that makes lamar the #1 option, the only thing that may drop is his fg%


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## Shady* (Jul 3, 2005)

How much _really_ will Phil Jackson make a difference in LA?


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## Unique (Apr 13, 2005)

Shadyballa8D12 said:


> I think you're overrating Kwame a little, he might not even fit in LA we haven't seen him play and lets not forget he is a bust. We're taking a chance with him.
> 
> Lamar Odom is everything you said but it has become clear that he can not play well with Kobe. When Kobe was injured Lamar put up big numbers and Lakers had some success but when Kobe is on the court Lamar cannot operate since he doesn't get the ball in his hands.



if u've seen every wizards game like me ...and u truely watch kwame like me u can see the potential ooozing out im serious i think...i take that back ...i KNOW he will burst out............have sum faith in our lakers people


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## ApheLion02 (Aug 5, 2005)

Lakermike05 said:


> if u've seen every wizards game like me ...and u truely watch kwame like me u can see the potential ooozing out im serious i think...i take that back ...i KNOW he will burst out............have sum faith in our lakers people


You'll go on to say, "wow, if only he could do that all the time"...then go "now WHERE was Kwame looking at" as he blows the umpteenth defensive assignment or play.


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## madskillz1_99 (Dec 5, 2004)

Wow, I am shocked at the lack of support that Kwame is getting! Like he said, how the hell can you possibly call someone a bust when they still have almost 20 years left in their career!??! Give the kid a chance man, a fresh start with a new team can make a huge difference. Damn.


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## bluedawgalex (Aug 1, 2005)

YUP.. WHAT U ARE SAYING IS TRU IF THEY CAN CO-EXIST THEN THEY WILL BE TOO MUCH TO HANDLE MANY TEAMS WILL NOT KNOW WHO TO DOUBLE TEAM, KOBE WILL CROSS THEM, LAMAR WOULD PROBABLY JUST PASS THE BALL OR SHOOT OVER THEM IF POSSIBLE, AND KWAME WILL MOST LIKELY JUST OVERPOWER THE DOUBLE TEAM AND DUNK ON THEM

MOST DEFINITELY I HOPE KWAME CAN PLAY GOOD D FOR US AND GIVE US AT LEAST 15/10 AND HOPEFULLY LAMAR'S #'s WILL GO UP AS WELL


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## TucsonClip (Sep 2, 2002)

Yes, as the #1 overall pick Kwame has been a bust, but that isnt going to last long. Not every HS player can come in and perform like Amare, Lebron, or Dwight. Jermaine O'Neal spent 4 years in Portland, before exploding in Indy. Kwame spent 4 years in Washington and like Jermaine is with a new team in year 5. People forget 2 years ago Kwame averaged 10.9 and 7.4. Give the kid a break here, Phil will give him a role and you will see Kwame fulfill his potential.


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## Unique (Apr 13, 2005)

TucsonClip said:


> Yes, as the #1 overall pick Kwame has been a bust, but that isnt going to last long. Not every HS player can come in and perform like Amare, Lebron, or Dwight. Jermaine O'Neal spent 4 years in Portland, before exploding in Indy. Kwame spent 4 years in Washington and like Jermaine is with a new team in year 5. People forget 2 years ago Kwame averaged 10.9 and 7.4. Give the kid a break here, Phil will give him a role and you will see Kwame fulfill his potential.



Preach brotha Preach!


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

I think Kwame probably will turn out to be a bust, because he was a #1 overall pick, but I still think there's a good chance he's serviceable and a great chance he'll have greater overall impact than Butler. Making the trade a good one.


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## madskillz1_99 (Dec 5, 2004)

TucsonClip said:


> Yes, as the #1 overall pick Kwame has been a bust, but that isnt going to last long. Not every HS player can come in and perform like Amare, Lebron, or Dwight. Jermaine O'Neal spent 4 years in Portland, before exploding in Indy. Kwame spent 4 years in Washington and like Jermaine is with a new team in year 5. People forget 2 years ago Kwame averaged 10.9 and 7.4. Give the kid a break here, Phil will give him a role and you will see Kwame fulfill his potential.



:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:


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## BBB (Jan 19, 2005)

Lakermike05 said:


> if u've seen every wizards game like me ...and u truely watch kwame like me u can see the potential ooozing out im serious i think...i take that back ...i KNOW he will burst out............have sum faith in our lakers people


While I hadn't watch too many Wizards games, from the games I watched it was quite clear to me that Kwame has a ton of talent, has the potential to be pretty damn good in the league. 

Right now, we can only hope that the change of scenery will insert a sense of urgency and inspiration in him to work hard and become the player that he can and should be.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

How many times in Phil Jackson's career has he won less than 50 games? I have confidence that he can do a quality job with this team. He's worth 10 victories alone in my opinion, simply because of the swagger he gives the Lakers.


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## Unique (Apr 13, 2005)

HKF said:


> How many times in Phil Jackson's career has he won less than 50 games? I have confidence that he can do a quality job with this team. He's worth 10 victories alone in my opinion, simply because of the swagger he gives the Lakers.


and plus last years lakers know sum1 of the triangle cuz of rudys step down........and it takes a whole training camp to learn it so there kind of ahead of schedule...... :banana:


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## NOODLESTYLE (Jan 20, 2005)

so if Kwame Brown is such a bust, who would u rather have...Michael Olowakandi, Joe Smith, or Kwame Brown on your team? :banana:


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## The One (Jul 10, 2005)

NOODLESTYLE said:


> so if Kwame Brown is such a bust, who would u rather have...Michael Olowakandi, Joe Smith, or Kwame Brown on your team? :banana:


Brown because about time we find out that Kwame is a bust than Kandi will be too old.


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## Mrdectown (May 28, 2005)

ApheLion02 said:


> You'll go on to say, "wow, if only he could do that all the time"...then go "now WHERE was Kwame looking at" as he blows the umpteenth defensive assignment or play.


Hey i know you. WHo do you even like in the NBA?(team)


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## clien (Jun 2, 2005)

Mrdectown...i love that kobe qoute in your sig--when did he say that?


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## ApheLion02 (Aug 5, 2005)

Mrdectown said:


> Hey i know you. WHo do you even like in the NBA?(team)


Well I'm a Houston fan, and I kinda like Chicago too because I am living in Illinois now...I like pretty much all players / teams I see as up and coming.


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## ApheLion02 (Aug 5, 2005)

Ok I may be rather harsh on Kwame, but I like players that overachieve and give it their all, so Kwame's antics last postseason really turned me against him. I just feel that many much less talented scrubs playing big men have contributed more to their team just by hustling and taking up space. Take Tony Battie when he was on the Celtics. Guys like this, they know their role, the teams know their limitations, and they fit in with the team's game plan without ruining chemistry.

Talented busts like Kwame, they may produce as much individually, but they add a negative element to the team which I would hate on my own team. You never know what side of them is gonna show up, and when they don't feel they get the treatment their talent entitles them to, they disrupt the workings of the team. Guys like that are the hardest to fit into a role and team concept. That, of course though, is one of Phil Jackson's strengths, so you have that working for you. But I just personally hate the idea of someone who has put in little effort for 4 years suddenly turning their game around, and everyone will blame the franchise that traded them. Everything that transpired till now, Kwame is control of. He is a man, and he made choices to get to where he is at this point. That said, Kwame won't be a total bust; I see him continuing his current numbers of about 10 and 6-7, and Phil Jackson will some how integrate him into the Lakers system. He's just that good at it. But with Kwame's attitude, he'll never be the world-beater (or close) that he should be.

Like I said, I am severely prejudiced against Kwame, but that's my two cents, and I think my arguments are pretty sound.


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## Lakerman33 (Oct 16, 2004)

Kwame can be a real force 

OR

Kwame can be a real bust


He will be a major part of our team this year. We really need him to step up. We know odom and kobe are gonna put up good #'s but that 3rd scorer is so vitale in the NBA


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## Unique (Apr 13, 2005)

Lakerman33 said:


> Kwame can be a real force
> 
> OR
> 
> ...



very true...that is y wizards were so successful last year ....hopefully KB L0 and Kwame can be like that only better ....IMO we have a pretty good line up and this team play with heart then who knows how far they can go


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## Shady* (Jul 3, 2005)

HKF said:


> How many times in Phil Jackson's career has he won less than 50 games? I have confidence that he can do a quality job with this team. He's worth 10 victories alone in my opinion, simply because of the swagger he gives the Lakers.


How many times has he not had the best player in the NBA?



Lakerman33 said:


> Kwame can be a real force
> 
> OR
> 
> ...


Like the Spurs!

Where is the + Phil on the title of this thread? :curse:


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## luckylakers (Aug 10, 2005)

the lakers will do great with them on the court :banana: they will probly be the best in a long time.


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## ApheLion02 (Aug 5, 2005)

luckylakers said:


> the lakers will do great with them on the court :banana: they will probly be the best in a long time.


Not yet, Houston stands in the way :smilewink.

btw, welcome to the boards. These are definitely the best BB boards online.


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## King Sancho Fantastic (Jul 19, 2005)

Kwame interview. click the link scroll down and click on "Kwame goes one on one" in the Free videos section. 


Link


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## clien (Jun 2, 2005)

CubanLaker said:



> Kwame interview. click the link scroll down and click on "Kwame goes one on one" in the Free videos section.
> 
> 
> Link


thats a good interview...kwame gives me alot of hope w/ that interview....He says he is gonna be out there giving it his all, leaving everything on the court...and he's gonna be out there diving for balls.....doesnt sound like Kwame, but its from his mouth -- do u believe him?


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## Drewbs (Feb 16, 2004)

I hope Kwame really does what he says hes going to do. I think that he wants to start fresh again, and put himself back on the map, something that he didn't have a chance to do in Washington.


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## hazzardrock (Aug 9, 2005)

Lamar Odom may be the best on the team. But he will never be allowed to show it. While he was with the Clippers he battled for ROY with Elton Brand (while Brand was with the Bulls). Both were putting up great #'s. Elton Brand became a Clipper. Personally I was very excited about those 2 playing together. Both of them disappointed me. Odom went to the heat. He put up some good #'s. Went to the Lakers in a trade that should have made the lakers a lot better without Shaq. Unfortunately, injuries and egos happened. I was personally happy with that trade. I have been a Laker hater since Bird vs Magic. For the first time in my life I was excited about the lakers. I wanted to see the Lakers with out Shaq and with out Phil Jackson do well. Too bad that never happened due to injury.

This is a new season.
Kobe + Lamar + Kwame? Lets add something to that. How about Kobe + Lamar + Kwame + Vlade? Vlade came from the run and gun of the Kings. How many centers are out there that can play with that much running? Not any that are 7-1. If the Lakers can play run and gun offense they will be a serious threat. But that won't happen. Phil Jackson will make sure it's slowed down to ensure Kobe always gets the ball. Which eliminates the abilities of any 4 guys on the court with Kobe. Kobe is good, but so are a lot of the other guys on the team.

Kwame is basically a side show in this circus. If MJ couldn't get him to perform well then I don't think Kobe will be of any help to him.

If you noticed from above I always become disappointed with trades that i become excited about. So the lakers will again disappoint me.


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## Unique (Apr 13, 2005)

hazzardrock said:


> Lamar Odom may be the best on the team. But he will never be allowed to show it. While he was with the Clippers he battled for ROY with Elton Brand (while Brand was with the Bulls). Both were putting up great #'s. Elton Brand became a Clipper. Personally I was very excited about those 2 playing together. Both of them disappointed me. Odom went to the heat. He put up some good #'s. Went to the Lakers in a trade that should have made the lakers a lot better without Shaq. Unfortunately, injuries and egos happened. I was personally happy with that trade. I have been a Laker hater since Bird vs Magic. For the first time in my life I was excited about the lakers. I wanted to see the Lakers with out Shaq and with out Phil Jackson do well. Too bad that never happened due to injury.
> 
> This is a new season.
> Kobe + Lamar + Kwame? Lets add something to that. How about Kobe + Lamar + Kwame + Vlade? Vlade came from the run and gun of the Kings. How many centers are out there that can play with that much running? Not any that are 7-1. If the Lakers can play run and gun offense they will be a serious threat. But that won't happen. Phil Jackson will make sure it's slowed down to ensure Kobe always gets the ball. Which eliminates the abilities of any 4 guys on the court with Kobe. Kobe is good, but so are a lot of the other guys on the team.
> ...



1st of all welcome to bbb.net and as i doubt that the lakers will dissapoint u............this years triangle will be differnt then when shaq was here and will be a bit differnt then the bulls ...kobe will be a scorer but will also be a playmaker...phil had said that he will include the whole starting 5 in the trianle but of course kobe will be the star but that dosent mean that the other 4 wont be a big part cuz they will......its ok u can be off the bandwagon right now but then ill see u on there when they start winning :cheers:


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## Backpackin (Aug 11, 2005)

Word up Kwame is too gifted he just needs to lay off the Popeye's, but why in the world are they paying him so much?


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## hazzardrock (Aug 9, 2005)

MC AK said:


> How much _really_ will Phil Jackson make a difference in LA?



I am not the only one on this earth that thinks Phil Jackson is overrated? To be honest my question is not will Phil make a difference. My question is why did he take the job? Ok he took the job and i figured the lakers will pick up the best in the league (i.e. basketball's version of the Yankees). At this point they lost Turiaff and let go of Grant. Sure Grant is not great but he has not been replaced either.


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## John (Jun 9, 2002)

LamarButler said:


> Sorry, I didn't watch the Bulls since I was too young when they were on their run. How did Scottie and MJ coexist? Looking at his stats, it seems Scottie was a pretty good three point shooter.
> 
> How did D-Wade and Lamar coexist? They were pretty good, considering they went to the ECSF and took Indiana to 6. Wade IMO needs the ball a lot more than Kobe because most of his offense is slashing while Kobe can shoot fairly well.


lmao kid, I think When Jordan won his 3rd ring against the Suns, your parents hadnt have sex yet.


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

John said:


> lmao kid, I think When Jordan won his 3rd ring against the Suns, your parents hadnt have sex yet.


He´s baaaack! :eek8: 


About Kobe + Lamar + Kwame: this is a very interesting trio put together. Yes, individually, they are awesome, good-to-great and promising, repectively. But it ain't their idividual capacities i'm most interested at, but how weel they can play together.

And, sadly, Kawame is the key, here, IMHO.
Scoring is an issue: playing alongside Kobe, Odom won´t have the chance to put up big numbers in the perimeter (that is, if he is playing SF only), because his jumper is not so good, and he will probably play in the post very little (with Kwame and Mihm there).
Kobe, of course, will provide all the scoring from the perimeter and more.
But it is Kwame that must keep defenders honest about doubling Kobe and Odom (for expecting the same from Mihm and/or McKie is laughable). Kwame, IMHO, and if he fulfills his potencial, should be the Lakers second scoring option, and for 2 reasons:
- If he doesn't get his touches (not many needed, but a few), he will probably start being desinterested again;
- He is capable of being a dangerous scorer in the post. He is quick and athletic enough to power his way to the rim.

So, Phil must find a way to keep the offense flowing through this guys. I hope Odom can be the set-up man we all believed he would last season, so Kobe can be relieved of the ball-handling/creating duties that left him out-winded in the 4th quarter of many games.
If all goes well, i fully expect Kwame to be in the 15-16ppg area.

Kwame will also be the key to interior defense and rebounding. Nor Mihm nor any other Laker player have the potential (again this word) to put big performances in the post. And remember Odom will play furder away from the basket, at SF (so, no more 10rpg seasons for him).

Damn, the more i think ot if, the more Kwame Brown seems to be the most important (not best) player in this years roster. If he fails, i don't see the Lakers improving much..


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

PauloCatarino said:


> He´s baaaack! :eek8:
> Damn, the more i think ot if, the more Kwame Brown seems to be the most important (not best) player in this years roster. If he fails, i don't see the Lakers improving much..


Hes the most important because you have no idea what to expect or what he will deliver.You know Kobe is going to deliver as well as Lamar..With Brown,you have an All Star caliber talent who cant seem to get out of his own way...The Lakers season hinges upon Brown..


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## madskillz1_99 (Dec 5, 2004)

truth said:


> Hes the most important because you have no idea what to expect or what he will deliver.You know Kobe is going to deliver as well as Lamar..With Brown,you have an All Star caliber talent who cant seem to get out of his own way...The Lakers season hinges upon Brown..


Check my sig, Kwame will do just fine.......... :clap:


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

truth said:


> Hes the most important because you have no idea what to expect or what he will deliver.You know Kobe is going to deliver as well as Lamar..With Brown,you have an All Star caliber talent who cant seem to get out of his own way...The Lakers season hinges upon Brown..


Rats!

When Truth agrees with me, i know i must be saying something wrong...


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## THE'clip'SHOW (Sep 24, 2002)

LamarButler said:


> I see them becoming a trio that's really hard to handle. All three cause matchup problems.
> 
> 
> So what do you guys think?


LOL you didnt point out that all three are going to be hard to handle.... FOR THE COACH. 
And your right they all cause problems.... FOR THEIR TEAMMATES.

You guys need a trade in the worst way.


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## LoyalBull (Jun 12, 2002)

TucsonClip said:


> Yes, as the #1 overall pick Kwame has been a bust, but that isnt going to last long. Not every HS player can come in and perform like Amare, Lebron, or Dwight. Jermaine O'Neal spent 4 years in Portland, before exploding in Indy. Kwame spent 4 years in Washington and like Jermaine is with a new team in year 5. People forget 2 years ago Kwame averaged 10.9 and 7.4. Give the kid a break here, Phil will give him a role and you will see Kwame fulfill his potential.



Jermaine Oneal is a bad example.

He played behind VERY solid pros.

He didn't get PT as a result.

Kwame played behind no one but his lack of ability to be productive.


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## RSP83 (Nov 24, 2002)

I don't want to make this as a comparison, but Kobe + Lamar + Kwame is damn similar to Jordan + Pippen + Ho. Grant.

I'm not going to talk much about Kobe and Lamar, both of them can play. It just depends on whether they can stay off from offcourt problems and commit to trust each other or not. Both have the talent to form one of the most lethal SG-SF duo since Jordan and Pippen.

We know Kwame has tons of potential waiting to be realized. He's a better talent than Ho. Grant. But, if Kwame can at least be a Ho. Grant level talent and able to play the triangle, I think he'll help the Lakers significantly. Kwame already showed people that he has the skills to grab a lot of rebounds and score from under the basket. However, I doubt that he'll be that third guy in his first year with the Lakers. He has to understand the triangle, he has to learn how to play defense, and still has some maturing to do. The biggest problem with him is all mental. Once he takes care of that, he's going to be good. Right now he doesn't have the aggressiveness that Ho. Grant had back then.


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