# Cavaliers summer league thread



## Nevus (Jun 3, 2003)

Well, this database rollback solved the problem of two threads on the same topic.

Pepsi Pro Summer League, Game 1: Cavs 89, Magic 73

*Recap*
http://www.nba.com/magic/news/Magic_v_Cleveland-113252-66.html

*Box Score*
http://www.proexposure.com/stories/0706c.cfm

*Players of the Game*
Dajuan Wagner - 23 points and 5 assists
Luke Jackson - 19 points, 6 assists, 4 rebounds, 4 steals

Just what I expected to see from Luke. He's the sort of player that will naturally take control of games in this setting. I hope he can continue to do so.

Kedrick Brown had a good game too.

Apparently Diop shut Dwight Howard down.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

Impressive first game from Luke, I expect him to duke it out with Okafor and Gordon for Rookie of they Year. Diop did absolutely shut Howard down, the only shot Dwight made was a jumper a step inside the 3-Point line. Diop was only 0-9 shooting and 2-6 from the line, but he grabbed 9 boards, blocked 3 shots and shut down Howard.


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## Johnny Mac (May 6, 2003)

Luke Jackson is the Kirk Hinrich of the 2004 draft


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> Impressive first game from Luke, I expect him to duke it out with Okafor and Gordon for Rookie of they Year. Diop did absolutely shut Howard down, the only shot Dwight made was a jumper a step inside the 3-Point line. Diop was only 0-9 shooting and 2-6 from the line, but he grabbed 9 boards, blocked 3 shots and shut down Howard.


And really that's all Diop has to do to be valuable for the Cavs. Especially coming off the bench. I like Diop.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>John The Cool Kid</b>!
> Luke Jackson is the Kirk Hinrich of the 2004 draft


If Jackson can turn out to be the defensive stud that Hinrich is, watch out.


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## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

This gives a real good recap.



> Especially during the second half. The Cavs trailed by six at halftime and shot a horrible 25 percent. A calmer and deadlier Wagner led the charge in the third quarter. He played an almost flawless quarter. He led fast breaks, got his team involved in its offense, and was brilliant from the outside.
> 
> During the third, Wagner was 5-of-6 from the field for 12 points, three assists and no turnovers. The Cavs outscored the Magic, 28-15, for a 61-54 lead.





> Silas, who watched the game from the stands as assistant Mark Osowski coached, gave Wagner some advice at halftime.
> 
> "I told him to shoot first because during the first half, he was trying to penetrate every time," Silas said. "I told him that by shooting his jumper, that would set up his whole game. He hit two or three in a row, and it was history because how were you going to guard him?"





> Jackson also did better in the second half, scoring 13 of his 19 points. His nine-point third quarter included a dunk, one 3-pointer and short jumpers. Jackson, the benefactor of several of Wagner's assists, said Wagner should make a smooth transition to point guard.
> 
> "That's because he's a talented basketball player and it'll take a little time," Jackson said. "It's just a matter of him getting used to it. He'll be fine."


Wagner points the way


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## sb telfair (May 12, 2004)

wow dwight howard 1 for 13 shooting


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## SamTheMan67 (Jan 4, 2004)

are these on nbatv?


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## Nevus (Jun 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>SamTheMan67</b>!
> are these on nbatv?


No, these are not. But the Cavaliers will have some games on NBA TV coming up pretty soon.

The Cavaliers defeated the Boston Celtics' summer league team today. I can't find a box score but the game was 64 - 57, and Dajuan Wagner led the Cavs in scoring again with 21. Luke Jackson had 12.

http://www.nba.com/magic/news/Boston_vs_Cleveland-113317-66.html

Looks like the Cavs won with a very large advantage in free throw attempts, 44 to 19.


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## Nevus (Jun 3, 2003)

Here's the box score.

http://www.proexposure.com/stories/0707a.cfm

Luke Jackson didn't have nearly as good of a game, but he did get to the line a lot. He made 8 of 10 FTs. He also had 2 offensive rebounds and 3 more steals. Good to see that he's hustling and working even when he's not having as good of an offensive game.

Also, Wagner had only 1 assist today.


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## The OUTLAW (Jun 13, 2002)

Doesn't really look as though the Cavs were ever allowed to get into their game. Look at those foul numbers and shooting percentages. Still, a win is a win.


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## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

It's really killing me not to be able to see this summer league and having to wait until next week and next league to see the action myself. 

I just want to see the players myself to see what shape they are in and see them in motion, which beats only having stats.

With the team Cleveland has in this league, I'm not too shocked they're winning games. For summer league standards, this team is alright.


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## SamTheMan67 (Jan 4, 2004)

Im going to all the games over the summer here in vegas and some of them will be on tv so ill keep yall posted


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## KokoTheMonkey (Aug 4, 2003)

I'm cheering for Dajuan Wagner to get himself together after two years, because what I've seen from this guy in college, and from the brief spectacular moments he's shown in the NBA, he looks like he can be a star in this league. However, Dajuan will be out of there the first chance he gets, because he seems like the type of guy who wants to be in the spotlight.


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## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

Jackson shows array of talents in Cleveland victory



> Jackson, the 10th overall pick in the draft, was almost unnoticeable during the first three quarters. But he made his presence known when it counted the most.
> 
> "The great thing about Luke is that his game is not all based on points for his production and impact on a game because he can do so many things with the basketball," said Cavs assistant coach Mark Osowski. "He can make plays off the dribble, create his own shots and find an open teammate. He never gets frustrated out there."


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## kamego (Dec 29, 2003)

Glad to see Andre Brown is playing like himself. My man from DePaul has always been able to rebound like crazy. He really reminds me of a poor mans ben wallace. I hope the Cav's keep him past the summer league because he could be a solid defender off the bench.


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## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

Cleveland vs. Washington

The Wizards won 81-72.



> There is no official MVP award given out at the Pepsi Pro Summer League in Orlando. But if there was, a leading candidate to this point would be Washington’s man at the point, Steve Blake.
> 
> Blake, who poured in 20 points and hit the game-winner with 1.8 seconds left against Orlando yesterday, led the Wizards with 27 points and five assists, as Washington defeated Cleveland, 81-72, in Game #7 at the RDV Sportsplex.
> 
> Jarvis Hayes added 22 points for Washington, which improved to 3-0 in PPSL action. Dajuan Wagner led the way for the Cavaliers (2-1) with 22 points.


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## Nevus (Jun 3, 2003)

Dajuan Wagner is as good as gone, in my opinion. The point guard experiment is failing. They've been winning until today, but he's not getting assists and his teammates are not getting good shots, apparently.


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## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

I don't agree with that at all, Nevus. It appears he is the best player on the team, so it's not his fault. At least, I'm hearing from a few guys who saw the games that Wagner is doing his part and it's not his fault.

The other game, the team shot 25% and only made 15 total field goals. If that's going on, not only are you missing shots, your teammates are too, so trying to get assists is impossible.

And from the game today, Luke only had 2 points. In this summer league, most of Wagner's assists have come from hitting Jackson. After all, he's the best man for Wagner to pass to on this summer squad. Langi made 9 of his 15 points from the foul line and the second unit did their stuff when the starters (including Wagner) were out of the game.

Boxscore


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## Nevus (Jun 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>remy23</b>!
> I don't agree with that at all, Nevus. It appears he is the best player on the team, so it's not his fault. At least, I'm hearing from a few guys who saw the games that Wagner is doing his part and it's not his fault.
> 
> The other game, the team shot 25% and only made 15 total field goals. If that's going on, not only are you missing shots, your teammates are too, so trying to get assists is impossible.
> ...


Well, we'll see when they're on TV soon, but I don't think Wagner will be a Cavalier next season. Just scoring is not enough and I don't see any evidence yet that he's doing anything else.


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## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Nevus</b>!
> 
> 
> Well, we'll see when they're on TV soon, but I don't think Wagner will be a Cavalier next season. Just scoring is not enough and I don't see any evidence yet that he's doing anything else.


If the Cavaliers are trading him, then what for? And not a trade just to trade him, but what trade that makes this Cleveland squad a better team?

Wags is mostly scoring and grabbing a few boards here and there. So far, Jackson is getting more assists than Wagner, despite not being the point guard. Yet despite playing the PG position and being 7 inches smaller, Wagner is outrebounding Jackson. So it makes me think, summer league stats aren't the key, as much as how the players general feel for the game appears to be. Some eye-witness fans have said guys scoring 30 points in these games looked terrible yet guys with bad shooting days looked alright. So yeah, we'll see the team when the games are on next week. But the people at the games are saying it's not Juanny's fault. So until I can see it myself, I'll take their word on it.


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## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

Here are a few pictures from the 1st game in the Summer League (against Orlando).

I watched a game on the dish (not the Cleveland game) and I got the impression the games are like pick-up games. Usually a lot of turnovers, streaky shooting and little play-making. Either guys are going one-on-one or running a little 2-man game. But that's almost the extent of the teamwork I saw in that game I saw.









Juanny in route of hitting a circus shot.

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And here is Diop. Those who saw the game in person say his listed weight for the Summer League, which is around 270, must be false because he looks 300+. I hope that's not the case. I really hope Diop is in better shape than that.









Diop blocking a shot.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Nevus</b>!
> 
> 
> Well, we'll see when they're on TV soon, but I don't think Wagner will be a Cavalier next season. Just scoring is not enough and I don't see any evidence yet that he's doing anything else.


I agree. There's little doubt in my mind that Wagner will blossom into a very good scorer in this league, but it won't be with the Cavaliers. If the Clippers don't get Kobe, they'd need a SG/Scorer with Richardson on his way to Phoenix. Wagner straight up for Chris Wilcox, to replace Carlos Boozer. 

Jeff McInnis
LeBron James
Luke Jackson
Chris Wilcox 
Zyrdunas Ilgauskus

That's a playoff team in my opinion, somewhere from the 6-8 seed assuming everyone stays healthy, and Luke Jackson proves to be the stud we all think he's going to be. Wilcox has shown the ability to score and rebound in this league, so I don't see why he can't be every bit as good as Boozer was last season playing in the East alongside LeBron James.


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## Nevus (Jun 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> 
> 
> I agree. There's little doubt in my mind that Wagner will blossom into a very good scorer in this league, but it won't be with the Cavaliers. If the Clippers don't get Kobe, they'd need a SG/Scorer with Richardson on his way to Phoenix. Wagner straight up for Chris Wilcox, to replace Carlos Boozer.
> ...


Yeah, something like that would make sense. If they can get a capable big man for Wagner, I wouldn't think twice about it.


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## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> I agree. There's little doubt in my mind that Wagner will blossom into a very good scorer in this league, but it won't be with the Cavaliers. If the Clippers don't get Kobe, they'd need a SG/Scorer with Richardson on his way to Phoenix. Wagner straight up for Chris Wilcox, to replace Carlos Boozer.


I don't know if the Clippers would do the deal. Wilcox has higher trade value right now than Wagner and most still believe in Wilcox's potential. And to be honest, I don't know if Wagner would get much more time in LA than in Cleveland (unless Juanny starts, which would not be a given).


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## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Nevus</b>!
> 
> 
> Yeah, something like that would make sense. If they can get a capable big man for Wagner, I wouldn't think twice about it.


Since you rarely trade bigs for smalls, unless the Clippers truly believe Wagner could be like AI, I don't see how the deal would happen.


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## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

Cleveland vs. New Jersey

The Nets won 83-72.

This was another bad shooting game for the Cavaliers; shooting 25% from the field in the 1st quarter. Ouch. If you can't buy a shot and you're struggling that bad (the entire team), then it's hard to win.

Boxscore

Wagner struggled from the field, Jackson played well but almost fouled out, and Kedrick Brown played pretty good.

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Here are some pictures of action from the Cavaliers-Wizards game and the Cavaliers-Celtics game. The first picture is the Cavaliers' leading scorer, Dajuan Wagner.









Wagner splits 3 defenders and finishes the lay-up.

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Kedrick has had 2 nice games in the Summer League and I'm glad they had a picture of him so I could post one. I hope they get a Jackson picture from the last game and if they do, he'll be up in this thread too.









Kedrick Brown finishes with a two-handed slam.


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## GuyClinch (Jul 10, 2004)

*Wagner + Kedrick*

What is up with Wags? 4 for 12? 6 for 17? This guy is not a point guard - he is a shooter/scorer. Of course when you take most of your teams shots your going to score.

I thought he intended to show the world he could play the point guard position. At best he is a combo guard - but personally I don't think his ball-handling is up to par from what I saw last season.

Kedrick - now I am one of the few that likes the guy. But they need to move him as well. With Wags, Newble, Jackson, Lebron, that jazz scrub, all on the same team.. I mean come on. 

It obvious that the Cav's have WAY too many suspect swingman. Kedrick needs to get some burn - they should have left the guy unprotected that would have helped his career alot more. Maybe they can trade him to the bobcats for a second round pick.

Also what is the deal with Kedrick and his two handed dunks - it wastes his athletic ability. Someone seriously needs to teach him to palm the ball. Sure he might be only 6'7" but I am sure he can strengthen his hands enough to palm the ball. Your slashing game is going to suck if the only slashing type move is a two handed dunk!

If anyone gets into the SL games ask him about it - seriously. Either way Paxson and Silas are a woeful combination. Do you guys see this? I mean Silas just coaches that team awfully. I sometimes have trouble watching Silas botch his rotations.


Pete


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## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

Miami 94, Cleveland 89

Miami won its first game of the league and Cleveland lost again. The Cavs' star of the game was Dan Langhi, who dropped 25.

Boxscore

The Bad:

Wagner's shooting, Kedrick's shooting, Jackson being hurt and not playing.

The Good:

Diop has his best offensive game by far, Langi goes nuts, Lonnie Jones chips in off the bench for double-figures, and Wagner gets 5 assists to only 1 turnover.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

Looks like Luke didn't play because of a strained calf. I'd imagine that's not serious, but damn.


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## GuyClinch (Jul 10, 2004)

*Kedrick FAT!*

Holy cow I saw Kedrick play for the first time this year. He is like a very bad version of Rodney Rogers. This guy needs to wake up. The Cavs should just cut him so he can go play in the NBDL. He needs a reality check.

He must be 40 pounds overweight!

Pete


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## Nevus (Jun 3, 2003)

I think this Cavs summer league team is better than the regular Cavs.

They're actually a good defensive team, and their ball movement has been good too when Wagner isn't dominating the ball.


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## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

YMCA ball.

Now having watched a few games (caught the game before the Cavs game), this is just pick up ball but with pro players. 

The Suns, nor the Cavs really ran plays or moved the ball well. Most of the turnovers from both teams came from bad spacing. Super-clogged. 

The Cavs whole strategy was to post the Suns up. That worked well. The big men were blocking shots and scoring inside. Once they got in foul trouble, it hit the fan.

I'm scractching my head asking "Is Wagner the only guy that can score off the dribble?"

I understand Luke wasn't playing tonight and that probably made a difference in breaking down the Suns defense and providing more scoring. Really, it seeemed Barbosa and Wagner were the only guys who could drive (on both teams).

Side note:

Silas was interviewed and he seemed calm. Basically said he would sign a big man from the summer team, that he liked Juanny, and that he wished Boozer the best.

And McInnis was there too and was interviewed. When asked about Boozer, he said "We just need to move on."

Boxscore


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

Who the hell is Lonnie Jones? 17 points, 20 rebounds and 6 blocks!


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## Nevus (Jun 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> Who the hell is Lonnie Jones? 17 points, 20 rebounds and 6 blocks!


Yeah... I saw the game and he was incredible, especially in the first half. His shotblocking was the main reason why the Cavaliers started the game on a 15-0 run. He was rejecting everything around the basket. He looked under control on offense too which is more than you can say for DeSagana Diop.

I like him, I think he's going to make the team. He looks like a player to me. Maybe this year's Haslem if they're lucky. He looks like a legit 6'11-7'0 and very long.


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## Coatesvillain (Jul 17, 2002)

In case you guys didn't see this, here's some stuff from Draftcity on the Orlando Summer League:



> Cleveland Cavs
> 
> Dajuan Wagner: I am not sure if there has ever been a more frustrating player to watch than this guy. The term “point guard” should never be placed anywhere near his name, he has to be one of the most selfish players I have seen in a long time. It takes him about 12 seconds to even get the offense started as he dribbles and dribbles and dribbles the ball until he absolutely has to give up, and then demands to get it right back. From there he will either pull up for an impossible fadeaway shot off the dribble with a hand in his face (which he sometimes makes) or he’ll take the ball with a head full of steam all the way to the basket. His teammates may as well start walking back up the court at that point because everyone in the gym knows he’s not going to pass it. Any assists he made in this summer league were purely incidental, I assure you. No defense, terrible shooting, he’ll dribble the air out of the ball if you let him. That’s Dajuan Wagner for you right there, a homeless Allen Iverson.
> 
> ...


LINK


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## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

I think that guy is overly harsh. Those at the games said Brown has looked very decent and while he has a few dunks, his hops haven't been the main display to behold. He was trying to post up, shooting the 3-pointer off screens and wanting to play an all-around game. But rather than type a super long post (about every player), I'll stop and say it's overly harsh.

That's why I'm glad this current league in on television. Instead of getting vastly different eye-witness stories to choose from, I can just watch this league and form my own opinion. Maybe that guy was right. But the 1st game in Vegas, it seems as if Brown is doing more than jumping over people (which is a good thing to see) and Diop is altering/blocking a little, so it's always nice to see something positive in him.


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## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

My thoughts:

*Celtics*

West: star in 1st half, quick, long and hits shots over taller people with great ball protection

Jefferson: the real deal, aggressive, had strong dunks, plays big, like his game and convinced on his talent and maturity to let the game come to him

Perkins: appears to be in real good shape from appearance, had a nasty sweeping hook shot in the 1st half, seems to have potential and should be good down the line

Allen: mad hops, energetic bunny, good defense, impressed by him

Banks: started out slow in the 1st half, came alive in the 2nd, good defense, quick first step

Mobley: ultra productive in short time, good defense, dunked and hit jumpers, hard to stop, is worth a 2nd look by the Celtics organization from this game

General: Celtics seem athletic, quick, good future for them, Paul Pierce was at the game and yelled from the bench in the 3rd to distract Cavaliers' players

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*Cavs*

Jones: aggressive, long, will get a look from the team

Langhi: nice dunk down the lane, face-up player, nice jumpshot, not a post player, tried to post the shorter West to no avail, not comfortable there, came alive in the 2nd quarter

Brown: better in the 1st half, struggled in the 2nd, picked up many fouls, had a few jumpers and a real nice left-handed dunk over Perkins

Diop: good until ejection for kicking a ball into the stands, should have been T'd up but ejection right away may have been harsh, was fouled by a Celtics player and appeared to be given the short end of the stick when shown the replay, once he was gone the Celtics drove the lane much better without resistance

Wagner: nice 3-stroke going, sometimes out of control, had several nice passes and bright moments, seemed calm and played better than yesterday's game

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*Closing*

That's my take on things. Both teams missed several foul shots (badly, at that) and turned the ball over a lot.

After Diop was ejected, a Cavs coach picked up a tech for talking to one ref, only to be T'd up by a ref who wasn't even part of the conversation.

The Cavs bench picked up a tech too. Not happy with the way the game was called. 

The Cavs second unit got rattled and lost leads. They could not hang with the Celtics' second unit. 

Celtics won 103-95.

Boxscore


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## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

*1st half*

Nuggets: great passing, big men finishing hard inside, nice shooting

Cavs: shooting under 30%, clearly rattled

*2nd half*

Lead grows. Cavs fight late in 3rd to reduce lead, to no avail. In the mid part of the 4th, Cleveland finally starts to hit shots but it’s too little, too late.

*General notes:*

Nugs ->

Nielsen: nice tips, energetic

Skita: all-around threat, picked up a good deal of fouls (6), looks nice

Cavs ->

Diop: posting up a lot, struggling at foul line (Silas was trying to show Diop proper form from the stands), nice right hand hook

Langhi: hurt, left game

Giovannoni: played very well, got hurt late in 4th (ankle), hopefully he is not seriously hurt or he will miss the final games

*Closing*

- Nuggets played at a fast pace, too quick for Cavs, strong double teams baffled Cleveland and led to steals

- Announcer said this was the least competitive summer league game (despite what the final score indicates)

- Cleveland needs to simply forget about this game, it’s too bad a game to dwell on, just move on (Wagner struggled, Brown struggled, they almost all struggled)

Boxscore (ouch)

Nuggets won 85-75.

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Recap

Ouch. One last game. Let's hope it doesn't end tis way too.


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## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

Boxscore

The Cavs shot the ball a lot better but still lost. The Magic had good games from Howard, Nelson, Bogans, Kasun and Davis. Cleveland had good games from Wagner, Brown, Langhi and Jacobsen.

A guy who saw the game said Nelson looked very good. But despite Bogan's nice boxscore, he cursed at times and even asked to be taken out of the game (which makes me wonder what's going on). Wagner apparently started off struggling. But late in the 4th, he went beserk and his scoring, along with Jacobsen's punch late in the 4th nearly brought the Cavs back.

At least Cleveland was in this game and made a run late. 

Howard continued his trend of good rebounding, Wagner continued scoring (but more impressive with 7 assists to 2 turnovers which is 2 more assists than Nelson had), Langhi still had the stroke on his jumper, and so forth. 

Too bad the last 2 games weren't on NBA Tv.


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## Larry Hughes for Retirement (Jul 5, 2004)

We dump ollie but pick up a bigger contract.....please tell me paxson knows what he is doing.....


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