# Official Game Thread: Bulls @ New York 6:30pm WCIU / NBALP



## BenDengGo (Feb 1, 2004)

<center>*PUTTING THE CHICAGO BACK INTO LARRY! * 








*VS*









*Chicago Bulls (7-5) (3-4 on road) @ New York Knicks (4-9) (2-2 at home) 









Madison Square Garden, New York, New York, Wednesday November 30th, 2005
Chicago Bulls @ New York 6:30pm WCIU / NBA LP*

*<blink>STARTING LINEUPS</blink>*





































*Duke-6'1-DUHON <> Kansas-6'3-HINRICH <> Tau Ceramica-6'7-NOCIONI <> Georgetown-6'8-SWEETNEY <> Dominguez-7'1-CHANDLER*

*VS* 





































*Georgia Tech-6'2-MARBURY <> DePaul-6'6-RICHARDSON <> UCLA-6'7-ARIZA <> UTEP-6'9-DAVIS <> Arizona-6'11-FRYE*


*<blink>Key Bench Players</blink>*






























*6'2-GORDON <> 6'9-DENG <> 6'8-SONGAILA <> 6'9-HARRINGTON*

*---*






























*5'9-ROBINSON <> 6'5-CRAWFORD <> 6'9-TAYLOR <> 6'11-CURRY*


*Individual Team Leaders:*

<table border="3" bordercolor="#000000" width="50%"><tbody><tr align="center"><td>*BULLS*</td><td> 
</td><td>*KNICKS*</td></tr><tr align="center"><td>HINRICH 35,3</td><td>*MPG*</td><td>MARBURY 39</td></tr><tr align="center"><td>HINRICH 14,3</td><td>*PPG*</td><td>MARBURY 17,8</td></tr><tr align="center"><td>CHANDLER 9,7</td><td>*RPG*</td><td>CURRY 6,5</td></tr><tr align="center"><td>HINRICH 7,3</td><td>*APG*</td><td>MARBURY 6,4</td></tr><tr align="center"></tr><tr align="center"><td>DUHON 1,27</td><td>*SPG*</td><td>ARIZA 1,38</td></tr><tr align="center"><td>NOCIONI .83</td><td>*BPG*</td><td>CURRY 1,3</td></tr></tr><tr align="center"><td>CHANDLER .544</td><td>*FG%*</td><td>CURRY .500</td></tr></tr><tr align="center"><td>DENG .455</td><td>*3P%*</td><td>RICHARDSON .400</td></tr></tr></tbody></table>
*BDG's Tag of the Day Competition
todays tag brought to you by*
*Bull_Market*







</center>


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## BenDengGo (Feb 1, 2004)

stupid college pcs, dont have a decent photo shop program....so i cant make a davis in a knick jersey photoshop right now.


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## El Chapu (Oct 23, 2004)

Since its Chapu's birthday (happy b-day Andres! Feliz Cumple pibe! :cheers: ).....

Chicago 93
New York 90

Nocioni 18 points / 12 rebounds
Frye 21 points / 11 rebounds


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## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

Bulls 95
Knicks 90

Ben 22 pts


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## Bull_Market (Aug 13, 2005)

hell yeah bendenggo - thank you. I know I had only one good tagline idea and 100 lame ones

:cheers:


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## madox (Jan 6, 2004)

Something tells me AD might be a little "off" tonight, almost scandalously "off."


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## josephnba (Aug 2, 2005)

Happy birthday Noc. We love U.

Bulls 89
Knicks 75

Hinrich 17pts, 9ast
Sweet 15pts, 12rbs

Marbury 3/11 10pts 5TO's
Curry 15pts, 0ast 2rbs :biggrin: 

Let's go Bulls


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## ndistops (Oct 31, 2005)

Bulls 87
Knicks 75

Sweets 15 and 15
Gordon 20 pts
Curry gets shots blocked by Chandler 3 times =D


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## fl_flash (Aug 19, 2002)

I think the benches will decide this one. Both teams have better than average depth. Alot will depend on whether Curry suits up. If he plays, I can see him scoring pretty much at will if he establishes good post position. The flip side would be that he'd have problems with either Sweetney or Chandler defensively with respect to keeping out of foul trouble. I hope Gordon show up tonight as he's playing in his building (madison square gordon). We're gonna need his scoring. If Curry doesn't play, I like Chandler on Frye to slow him down and Sweets should be able to stay out of foul trouble guarding Davis.

Should be a pretty close game. Second game of a back to back on the road and the knicks had a day off. Gotta go with the Bulls on this one though in another pretty close one...

Bulls 92
Knicks 88


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## RoRo (Aug 21, 2002)

this is going to be an epic game thread. and hopefully the rebirth of a rivalry. so many good matchups - curry vs chandler, jamal vs all the point guards  we'll see who the lankier athlete is ariza vs deng, who has the most energy lee vs noc, the more explosive little guy, robinson vs gordan. can't wait, might have to leave work early to catch it all.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

it will be close. 

Bulls should win. Gordon has good games against them, look for another one.


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## BULLS23 (Apr 13, 2003)

Should be a really exciting game . . . If Curry plays that makes it a bit closer, but I like the way the Bulls are playing, and BG won't have another 9 Point night at MSG! Happy Birthday Noce!


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## Sith (Oct 20, 2003)

i think the knicks take this one.
knicks 95
bulls 88


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## jbulls (Aug 31, 2005)

Anyone else a little concerned that this is a rested Knicks team versus a Bulls team on the back end of a back to back, on the road, immediately after another back to back?


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

Will there be any more "Happy Birthday" comments for Nocioni after this one is over?


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

Bull_Market said:


> hell yeah bendenggo - thank you. I know I had only one good tagline idea and 100 lame ones
> 
> :cheers:


I just thought of another really good one for a Knicks game....next game . So easy to make them for the Knicks games.


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## darlets (Jul 31, 2002)

jbulls said:


> Anyone else a little concerned that this is a rested Knicks team versus a Bulls team on the back end of a back to back, on the road, immediately after another back to back?


I'm a little concerned about this game because we're playing the 2nd game in a 4 games in 5 days stretch. With one of the last two games against our boggy team Boston on the road and the other against Detriot at the U.C. Both of which will be tough games


So a win tonight could would put as at 8-5 so we couldn't drop below 500 if we lose the next two.

Saying that I thought we'd lose against S.A and Houston too. So..... ummm
yeah
Goooo Bulls!!!!!!


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## narek (Jul 29, 2005)

jbulls said:


> Anyone else a little concerned that this is a rested Knicks team versus a Bulls team on the back end of a back to back, on the road, immediately after another back to back?


good ol' Jon McGlocklin, Bucks veteran broadcaster and former player in the days of commercial air travel for teams, said the whole back-to-back game disadvantage is a load of crap. He said it nicer than that but that was his point. If you're in shape, he said, it shouldn't matter.


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## jbulls (Aug 31, 2005)

narek said:


> good ol' Jon McGlocklin, Bucks veteran broadcaster and former player in the days of commercial air travel for teams, said the whole back-to-back game disadvantage is a load of crap. He said it nicer than that but that was his point. If you're in shape, he said, it shouldn't matter.


I would think that's true, but the numbers don't support it. I'm too lazy to look it up right now but I'm pretty sure that NBA teams perform far worse on the tail end of back to backs, particularly on the road. I hope somebody proves otherwise, I would feel better about tonight's game.


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## SausageKingofChicago (Feb 14, 2005)

El Chapu said:


> Since its Chapu's birthday (happy b-day Andres! Feliz Cumple pibe! :cheers: ).....
> 
> Chicago 93
> New York 90
> ...


If its Noc's birthday it just doesn't seem right that we're not playing Antawn Jamison and the Wizards


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## SausageKingofChicago (Feb 14, 2005)

jbulls said:


> Anyone else a little concerned that this is a rested Knicks team versus a Bulls team on the back end of a back to back, on the road, immediately after another back to back?


No

We're on a roll and "rested" teams often come out lethargic..particularly teams that haven't come together and actually suck arse


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## Bull_Market (Aug 13, 2005)

put it this way - on a day before a game (of which there are an abundance of,) do you think the players go lightly at each other during practice?
and you only play 25 - 35 minutes on a game day. i would say that it's ADVANTAGEOUS to play on the second game of a back to back, because you are LESS tired. then again, i'm crazy.


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

This article/interview/book review says that home teams win 64% of games played against opponents coming off the 2nd half of back-to-backs.

It also says that from a situational/betting standpoint, the Bulls have the easiest schedule in the NBA this year, measured primarily by number of back-to-backs and three-games-in-four-nights.

http://www.covers.com/articles/articles.aspx?theArt=59736&tid=25

Interesting reading . . . as an aside, I have to say that I would never bet a substantial amount of money on an NBA game, and I pretty much have to question the sanity of anyone who would.


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

let's see...keys, money, tix, bulls hat, binocs...ok kids...off to the garden. back later for the color commentary "as seen by miz at msg" tonight...have fun on the thread!


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## nanokooshball (Jan 22, 2005)

MADISON SQUARE GORDON goes off for 30pt game 2nite :biggrin:


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## Hustle (Dec 17, 2003)

Gordon is certainly due for a spetacular game. When you are playing against any LB coached team, the keys to the game are easy, win the turnover battle, and hit your open shots including FT's.

*Bulls 90 
Knicks 88*

The Knicks are one of the most baffling teams in the league. When you look at the names on the team you would think the d would be horrible and the O would be pretty good, but thus far it has been the complete opposite. Of course this is because of Larry Brown, but I'm not going to praise him as great of a defensive coach as he is ussually given credit for(not saying he isn't a good coach just overated). Look at Detriot this year, same team as years past but the offense has really picked up. The biggest reason is LB tries to make the game as slow as possible(which makes their #'s decieving). In Detriot they had terrific defense and the slow game kept the other team from getting hot on top of that, but NY doesn't have those great defenders, they have some really good shooters who because of the slow pace have a hard time getting their rythme. Also LB likes to use the clock (much more so than almost any other coach) and get good ball rotation (just like any other coach), but I beleive the biggest reason for NY's underachieving on offense is due to the fact that they are a team full of scorers and not playmakers (which is why they are looking for another point ex. Watson rumors). They are trying to play a team game with a bunch of guys who shine primarily in isolation. Although Marbury can certainly create who steps up for him on his bad nights, and who makes the extra pass on his good ones?


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## BullSoxChicagosFinest (Oct 22, 2005)

I'm a little worried about the fatigue factor, Funk says they got in at 3 am, he sounds real tired. Should be fun though


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## T.Shock (Feb 11, 2003)

The Knicks-Bulls comparison got me thinking...

They have similar but we play defense.


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## Bull_Market (Aug 13, 2005)

scottmay - the fact that home teams win 64% of games against team coming on the second day of a back to back might be misleading.

what's the percentage of home teams winning, period?

if it's about 64%, then the statement above is insignificant.


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## lister333 (May 6, 2003)

keep marbury out of the ft line and we should win...


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## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

surreal........well not really. I'm used to it now


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## greekbullsfan (Oct 26, 2003)

spongyfungy said:


> surreal........well not really. I'm used to it now


hey spongy,nice avatar but do u know sth we do not know?


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## ACT_THE_FOOL (Nov 2, 2005)

gordon with consecutive 3's i have a good feeling about this game for gordon


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## Dancon7 (Jan 13, 2005)

The Bulls are a better team this year than last for alot of reasons, but I think that the fact that they've been able to cut down on turnovers is probably the biggest. They're not the most consistent shooting team, so it's key that they don't give the ball up on top of the missed shots. If they can keep it up they'll be tough all year.

Gordon just hit his third 3 in his first 2 minutes in the game. The MSG thing isn't just hype.


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## Chops (May 30, 2002)

Gordon draining 3's.


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## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

greekbullsfan said:


> hey spongy,nice avatar but do u know sth we do not know?


 no i don't.

Gordon is hot. keep shooting!

Sweetney should not have to bring the ball up like that. TWICE!


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

Deng and Frye with offsetting spectacular plays


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## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

That Deng play had teriffic ball movement. Everyone in sync and sure of themselves.


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## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

BG with 15 already. Even attempted a dunk on that last possession....got fouled.


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## jbulls (Aug 31, 2005)

I'm not able to watch this one. What's the deal with the fouls? Ticky tack stuff or are we just playing stupid?


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## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

jbulls said:


> I'm not able to watch this one. What's the deal with the fouls? Ticky tack stuff or are we just playing stupid?


Ticky-tack....it's annoying. I don't see the same calls being called against NY.


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## ACT_THE_FOOL (Nov 2, 2005)

i think he should continue driving into the lane. he is a foul getter when he drives


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## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

lame foul calls...barely touching yet being called.


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## qwerty (Oct 26, 2004)

Dennis rodman appearance.


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## greekbullsfan (Oct 26, 2003)

qwerty said:


> Dennis rodman appearance.


sign him Pax!!!!!!!!!!!


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## darlets (Jul 31, 2002)

This wouldn't even be close if it wasn't for the foul count.


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## jimmy (Aug 20, 2002)

LOL @ Johnny Red


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## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

Rodman interviewed during halftime..interesting..


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## darlets (Jul 31, 2002)

9 points up at the half, but with our hot shooting I'd like to be further ahead. Can we keep it up? Can we keep the D up?
Stay tuned, some Bulls channel, sames bulls time.


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## Future (Jul 24, 2002)

Rodman is being interviewed right now.

Well that was nostalgic.


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## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

We'll be fine if we some how limit Marbury's penetration. He's just taking it in there at will. 10 FTAs for him in the half.


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## T.Shock (Feb 11, 2003)

First half observations:

Hinrich-looked good so far, really in control and playing well. He seems to have emerged from his slump

Duhon-burned Robinson a couple of times but Marbury's been toying with him, also made some bad passes

Gordon-Madison Square Gordon, hit 4 3s, got to the line a couple of times, played really well

Basden-4 pts and he looked really fluid out there, he needs to start getting more minutes

Deng-has looked ok, blocked a shot by Frye, but still appears awkward on offense, good on defense though

Nocioni-hit some Js, but rarely passes, his ability to guard different positions next to Deng made it tough for the Knicks to really matchup well

Chandler-I'm amazed what his presence on D does for the team, he just alters so many shots, needs to be more aggressive on the boards, and actually demand the ball on offense despite not being able to do a lot

Sweetney-really impressed, he can score inside and has some nice post moves, as a rebounder he's looked good but his defense is as bad as advertised, I like him out there

Songalia-uhhh he's looked the worst. Made some bad plays, looks scared at times, but makes some contribution occassionally

Othella-also played well, overmatched when guarded Frye but offensively he's got the most diverse game of our bigs


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## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

So Isiah invited Rodman to the game. Then Isiah looked at him and said to him "you look like you can still play"


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## jbulls (Aug 31, 2005)

How did Basden look?

And, more importantly, do his 4 first half points effect the chances of a potential Calvin Klein/Latrell Sprewell situation between he and ScottMay?


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

Does he/ did he speak English?


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

Wow, Channing Frye looks really good. Should he and Curry be able to keep improving, the will be a terrorizing frontcourt for the next 10 years. What a great set of complimentary skills they have.


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

This knick team conentrates on defense about as much as I did in Ms. Downings 7th grade adv algebra class.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

Nocioni has played some good ball for us the last few games. 

This Frye kid is for real eh?


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

Hard foul by Tyson as Frye hits the deck! Good foul, and it has the added bonus of looking a little worse then it actually was.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

chandler's 4th foul could hurt us.


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

In slightly related news, Duke just tipped off against Indiana.


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## darlets (Jul 31, 2002)

T.Shock said:


> his ability to guard different positions next to Deng made it tough for the Knicks to really matchup well
> 
> Chandler-I'm amazed what his presence on D does for the team, he just alters so many shots, needs to be more aggressive on the boards, and actually demand the ball on offense despite not being able to do a lot


Chandler Nocino and Deng are a nice defensive trio. Deng and Nocino can switch without creating a mismatch and even if chandler switches with one of them, it's really only creates one mismatch cause chandler can typically guard the guy his switched to.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

hmm Chandler get's his 4th foul and we increase the lead. 

I am watching IU game. Their pf is 6-5. They have a lot of people hurt


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## Future (Jul 24, 2002)

Ben Gordon is having a hell of a game, and he has only played 11 minutes. Get him in the game Skiles.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

Memphis is beating Toronto by 26 with a minute left.


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## BullSoxChicagosFinest (Oct 22, 2005)

Noc is money tonight, happy bday buddy!


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

Ben with 5 threes already. Nice work.


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## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

Noce's outside shooting .

I don't think we've fully appreciated how key his outside shooting has been in our impressive play of late.


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## Future (Jul 24, 2002)

These refs are pathetic. Let them play!!!!!!!!!!


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## ACT_THE_FOOL (Nov 2, 2005)

ben gordon enters the game gets a offensive foul and shoots a 27 yard 3 pointer. hes back


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## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

These refs 

What do we have to do to get some respect?


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

24 fouls. That's too many.


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

Kirk is just not fast enough to keep up with Nate Robinson.

I'm just repeating what everyone has said, but Isiah can draft. He's the perfect instant offense, Eddie Lee Jones-esque, 6th man combo guard.


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## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

Big jumper by BG there. Halted the Knicks' momentum.


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## darlets (Jul 31, 2002)

ACT_THE_FOOL said:


> ben gordon enters the game gets a offensive foul and shoots a 27 yard 3 pointer. hes back


maybe we just need to play our first game of the season at MSG.


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## ACT_THE_FOOL (Nov 2, 2005)

still not sure why skiles is playing gordon only 15 minutes. he has scored 20 points in 15. what in 30 minutes now many points will he score then.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

Low def WCIU is bugging me. Then again, all away games are in low def. Lame. The Duke/IU game looks snappy though.


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## Future (Jul 24, 2002)

Such [Edit], that was a bailout foul. He traveled. Larry Brown at it again with his persuasions.

Watch the language.


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

Knicks are playing aggressive and getting all the calls.


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## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

Officiating killing us.

Tie game.

Put Kirk back in. Duhon's isn't contributing much on O and that's what we need right now.


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## Future (Jul 24, 2002)

Damn, that dunk was narsty.

Should've been an offensive foul, Ariza pushed off with his off hand. 

God, I hate the Knicks and NBA refs.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

Well, this sucks. Monster dunk by Ariza to tie it up.


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## chifaninca (May 28, 2002)

This is pathetic. If we blow this game, we are weak.

This game should not be tied right now. Refs are missing everything, but the Bulls aren't doing themselves any favors.


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

You have to give it up to Noc. No one in the league gets dunked on as much as he does. . . and thats a good thing, in a twisted way. He never bails on a play.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

Tyson picks up numero cinq. Ugh.


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## Future (Jul 24, 2002)

That was not a foul on Tyson!!! OMG, this is pathetic. These refs........


:banghead:


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## SDBullsFan (Oct 4, 2005)

ACT_THE_FOOL said:


> still not sure why skiles is playing gordon only 15 minutes. he has scored 20 points in 15. what in 30 minutes now many points will he score then.



Perhaps it has something to do with Gordon averaging a shot per minute while having a personal foul total exceeding his rebounds, assists, and steals combined. He's not having a good game. I don't care how many points he has. He's shot 6/15 and has produced absolutely nothing on offense besides those points.


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

Ball don't lie.


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## Future (Jul 24, 2002)

why is pike in there!!!? Slipping away...


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

Did Tyson Chandler just beg for his sixth?


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

And now Tyson fouls out. Uh oh.


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## BullSoxChicagosFinest (Oct 22, 2005)

Pike, are you retarded?!?!?

That was all ball by Tyson, Uncle Larry slipped them some dollas at the half


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## greekbullsfan (Oct 26, 2003)

6 personal fouls in 4minutes for bulls 0 for knicks,make it 7 :curse:


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## chifaninca (May 28, 2002)

Chandler's an idiot. You know you have 5 fouls and you hack AD? LOSER.


Come on Bulls, suck it up. This is a better draft pick we are talking about!


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## SDBullsFan (Oct 4, 2005)

Well, the collapse is complete.

This is an embarassment.

Hey Tyson, on gameday, you might want to try getting out of bed.

How does it feel to get completely outplayed by a rookie in every single way imaginable?


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

Still taking jump shots. . . and missing them. . . someone has to go to the hoop.


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## Future (Jul 24, 2002)

Get Pike Out Of There Skiles!!! You Idiot!!!


How about we put Sweetney in and try to get some inside scoring!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## chifaninca (May 28, 2002)

Pike is absolutely useless as anything other than a coat holder.

Noc is killing us with bad decisions.

Songalia, wow, this guy was way overrated


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## BullSoxChicagosFinest (Oct 22, 2005)

How many fouls does Sweets have? We need some inside points

Luckily there's plenty of time left before this is deemed a "collapse"


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## BullsAttitude (Jun 11, 2002)

I'm Getting [EDIT] Tired Of The Damn Refs Killing Us. This Is What Killed Us In The New Jersey And Portland Losses!!!

They Have Shot 43 Free Throws To Our 22 Free Throws!


This is a message to everyone. Knock off the masked cursing. Now.


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

Kirk goes to the hoop and hits a reverse to end the drought.


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## The Krakken (Jul 17, 2002)

Points in the 4th quarter. 

NY 13.

Chi 0.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

Sweet reverse by Noce fed by Gordon. Good stuff.

Knicks getting bailed out with whistles at every turn. Amazing.


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## chifaninca (May 28, 2002)

Almost 5 minutes without a basket.



Damn, these refs are killing us with late whistles.


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## Future (Jul 24, 2002)

Pike is getting crossed left and right.... GET HIM OUT!!!!

Refs are killing us with [EDIT] calls.


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## SDBullsFan (Oct 4, 2005)

I have an idea...how about the Bulls make the Knicks take a field goal?


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## Future (Jul 24, 2002)

Skiles is trying to lose this game. Put Sweets in for inside scoring... take out Pike. 

Frustrating the hell out of me.


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## DaFuture (Nov 5, 2002)

wow, what a way to lose the game


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## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

30 fouls to 15. I think... what discrepency?

Andres keeping us alive....barely. Waiting for Ben to explode? I am. I think he's passing up shots until the last few minutes.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

Chill out folks. Plenty of time left.


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## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

I'm disgusted by the officiating in this game.


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## Future (Jul 24, 2002)

4th Quarter
Knicks: 18 pts
Bulls: 4 Pts


Pathetic... 

Send this game to the league.... horrible officiating.


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## chifaninca (May 28, 2002)

The refs and the Bulls are just way off tonight. Pike is useless..............."Vet Presence" my arse. Pike is only good for holding the door open.

Why Sweetney is not in is rediculous. Chandler fouled out because his basketball mind is weak. If Skiles says he was holding back on Sweetney to have a post presence, again, I will puke.

Nights like tonight are why the Fire Skiles club still has members. Gordon hot and on fire, sits way too mong. Sweetney wanting the kind of revenge that Crawford is getting, but no.he's on the bench too.


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## The Krakken (Jul 17, 2002)

I've maintained from the beginning that Skiles is a bad personel manager


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## chifaninca (May 28, 2002)

I Officially Hate Songalia as a Bulls player. He is so out of sync, it's killing the team. Someone else inhabited his body this season.


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## BullSoxChicagosFinest (Oct 22, 2005)

Here comes Ben

Now put in Sweets for the 2 headed monster that takes this game back


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## chifaninca (May 28, 2002)

From 12 up to 7 down...........great coaching and execution


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

chifaninca said:


> I Officially Hate Songalia as a Bulls player. He is so out of sync, it's killing the team. Someone else inhabited his body this season.



Preferably somebody good at basketball.


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## Future (Jul 24, 2002)

Everytime the Knicks go to the basket and a red shirt is there.... refs call a foul.


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## greekbullsfan (Oct 26, 2003)

35 fouls by bulls!!!!!!!!!oh myyy


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## chifaninca (May 28, 2002)

Frye is gonna be a stud! Pax should've been holding out for him..........not Lee


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## Future (Jul 24, 2002)

Sweetney comes in gets an offensive rebound... where the hell he has been all quarter? Skiles is a damn moron.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

Wooooooooo Sweets!!! Muscles a big offensive rebound and draws a foul on the putback. Big play.


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## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

1/2 FT's for us 13/16 FT's for them this quarter


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

Hey everyone, could you please knock off the swearing (and masked swearing)? I have much better time watching the game than sitting here cleaning up posts playing potty mouth police.


----------



## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

Down 6 with abt 4 mins. left.

We've a small chance as long as breathing on the opposition is allowed by the refs.


----------



## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

When did Sweetney decide to put "Will split every pair of free throws" on his business card?


----------



## Future (Jul 24, 2002)

spongyfungy said:


> 1/2 FT's for us 13/16 FT's for them this quarter


Proof that refs can change games.... 

35 fouls for us.... 25 for them......


----------



## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

Anyone else have that feeling htat the only way we win this game is if Gofdon goes off. Ug. Kirk throws it away.


----------



## NYKBaller (Oct 29, 2003)

dont blame the refs cause look at us versus the heat, they had 34fts to our 12


----------



## Future (Jul 24, 2002)

Frye is automatic. Wow.

Songaila is horrible.


----------



## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

That long Frye jumper might be a dagger. We need some Gordon heroics.


----------



## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

Ok, Knicks up 10. Stop chilling out. Be mad. What a ridiculous choke job. Ugh. This doesn't feel good.


----------



## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

Kirk's turnover was the dagger.

Game over.

Thank You, refs.


----------



## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

NYKBaller said:


> dont blame the refs cause look at us versus the heat, they had 34fts to our 12


WTF does that have to do with this game? :curse:


----------



## Future (Jul 24, 2002)

Bulls blow the game just like the Bobcats did against us the 1st game of the series. 

I hate the Knicks.


----------



## The True Essence (May 26, 2003)

the refs didnt pass the ball out of bounds.

jamal crawwwwforddd!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

Its kinda hard to win when the refs are giving the other team 20 FTs.


----------



## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

Gordon!


----------



## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

Thats the only way we win. Go Gordon Go!


----------



## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

And Crawford right back. Lame. And then Duhon. It's a threefest.


----------



## KVIP112 (Oct 31, 2005)

Overrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr


----------



## BullsAttitude (Jun 11, 2002)

NYKBaller said:


> dont blame the refs cause look at us versus the heat, they had 34fts to our 12



Just like Marbury charges into Duhon and they call the trip on him! Yeah, don't blame the refs for that.


----------



## Future (Jul 24, 2002)

Technical foul.... wow, this game is so blatantly for the Knicks.


----------



## Future (Jul 24, 2002)

PennyHardaway said:


> the refs didnt pass the ball out of bounds.
> 
> jamal crawwwwforddd!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Yea, but they did give the Knicks double the free throw attempts. 

5 against 8 my friend.


----------



## The True Essence (May 26, 2003)

if u attack the rim you get free throws. the bulls have been a perimiter team ALL GAME. you dont get to the line that way.


----------



## chifaninca (May 28, 2002)

Rediculously Referee'd game tonight.

Still, poorly coached game by Skiles. His rotations were horrendous


----------



## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

OMG Duhon has looked like Crap on defense tonite. No excuses here the Bulls should have won this game, even dough the Refs tottally helped out the Knicks, the Bulls are at fault for not bringing in a quicker lineup when the Knicks brought in all their speed.


----------



## chifaninca (May 28, 2002)

Rediculously Referee'd game tonight.

Still, poorly coached game by Skiles. His rotations were horrendous.

Fry makes a sound and ref blows his whistle, classic.


----------



## Future (Jul 24, 2002)

PennyHardaway said:


> if u attack the rim you get free throws. the bulls have been a perimiter team ALL GAME. you dont get to the line that way.


YOU HAVE HAD OVER 50 FREE THROW ATTEMPTS!!!

Give me a damn break....stick to the Knick board if you are going to bring that crap here.


----------



## DaFuture (Nov 5, 2002)

this loss hurts


----------



## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

Knicks fans justifying the FTAs kindly GET THE HELL OUT OF HERE.


----------



## greekbullsfan (Oct 26, 2003)

PennyHardaway said:


> if u attack the rim you get free throws. the bulls have been a perimiter team ALL GAME. you dont get to the line that way.


[Strike]get the **** out of here u miserable knick[/strike]


----------



## The Krakken (Jul 17, 2002)

greekbullsfan said:


> get the **** out of here u miserable knick


:laugh:


----------



## Future (Jul 24, 2002)

chifaninca said:


> Rediculously Referee'd game tonight.
> 
> Still, poorly coached game by Skiles. His rotations were horrendous.
> 
> Fry makes a sound and ref blows his whistle, classic.


I think the game changed when Pike came in. Crawford abused him.... that was the worst coaching move (of many) by Skiles all day.


----------



## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

Future said:


> YOU HAVE HAD OVER 50 FREE THROW ATTEMPTS!!! Give me a damn break....stick to the Knick board if you are going to bring that crap here.


The point is still valid. Marbury is having a terrible shooting game, so he's getting to the hoop. Consequently, he's 12-14 on fts, and he deserved those trips to the line. We don't have anyone who can drive like that. But we also don't even really try.


----------



## Chops (May 30, 2002)

ticky tACK fouls all game long against the Bulls. horribly officiated game tonight. knicks are a team they have to beat, period. beat the Spurs, lose to the Knicks. ouch.


----------



## BullsAttitude (Jun 11, 2002)

PennyHardaway said:


> if u attack the rim you get free throws. the bulls have been a perimiter team ALL GAME. you dont get to the line that way.



I'm sorry, even the announcers our talking about how crazy it is. You take away of 1/4th of the Knicks free throws and they lose this game!

Don't give me this if u attack the rim, the Bulls do the same but yet crap isn't called. This is the 3rd time the refs have done this to the Bulls, check the stats from our losses to New Jersey and Portland.


----------



## The True Essence (May 26, 2003)

you guys gotta be kidding me. ben gordon, nocioni,hinrich were the only guys who shot the ball. and they all shot perimiter shots. sweetney was the only inside presence besides one nocioni lay in... seriously.

the knicks attacked the rim all night. the other day, they did not, and didnt get free throws...

everytime the bulls lose its the refs. when they win, its them, cause they are the best team the nba has to offer


----------



## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

PennyHardaway said:


> if u attack the rim you get free throws. the bulls have been a perimiter team ALL GAME. you dont get to the line that way.


 i hate you. but, you're right. knicks are making a run to end runs and no one on the bulls goes to the hoop? all songaila missing 15 footers. . . but, i still hate you.


----------



## Future (Jul 24, 2002)

If you wanted proof of bias officiating... watch that last play. Robinson drives to the lane and gets a foul call. 

my god....


----------



## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

why on earth didn't we go small or bring deng in the game when this was getting out of hand? Skiles waited until it was lost.


----------



## Future (Jul 24, 2002)

PennyHardaway said:


> you guys gotta be kidding me. ben gordon, nocioni,hinrich were the only guys who shot the ball. and they all shot perimiter shots. sweetney was the only inside presence besides one nocioni lay in... seriously.
> 
> the knicks attacked the rim all night. the other day, they did not, and didnt get free throws...
> 
> everytime the bulls lose its the refs. when they win, its them, cause they are the best team the nba has to offer


Yes, you attacked the rim. Do you understand how many ticky tack fouls you got. YOU HAD OVER 50 FREE THROW ATTEMPTS!!!!!!!!!!!!! Proof is in the god damn pudding.


----------



## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

PennyHardaway said:


> you guys gotta be kidding me. ben gordon, nocioni,hinrich were the only guys who shot the ball. and they all shot perimiter shots. sweetney was the only inside presence besides one nocioni lay in... seriously.
> 
> the knicks attacked the rim all night. the other day, they did not, and didnt get free throws...
> 
> everytime the bulls lose its the refs. when they win, its them, cause they are the best team the nba has to offer


U're one weird moron. We're not complaining abt OUR lack of attempts. We're complaining abt the OBVIOUS BS calls u guys got all game along and that was the clear difference in this game.


----------



## The True Essence (May 26, 2003)

if the refs were calling it that way, your team should have attacked the basket to get the same treatment... but they settled for jump shots the entire game. the shots were falling early on, but just didnt fall the second half, at all


btw, thanks for calling me all types of names guys. you guys prove how mature you are everytime you post. im just saying what i saw.


----------



## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

I'm not worried about tonight. The foul calls were unbalanced but did not score enough in the fourth as well.

Too little too late for Ben, when he hit that three. The gameplan, "save us Ben" probably would have worked better.


----------



## Future (Jul 24, 2002)

Skiles's horrible coaching in the 4th....and the refs gave us this loss tonight. 

I still don't understand why he brought in Pike for Duhon. Did he think Pike could stop Crawford? Bonehead move of the day.....


----------



## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

Ugh. 

I hate the Knicks and really wanted this one. We practically handed them the win. I'm not blaming the refs, I'm blaming the Bulls for committing too many stupid fouls and turnovers. A good shooting game went completely to waste for us. Bottom line, we need to rotate better than this defensively; like we did against the Spurs. I hate the Knicks. We better get them next time. ****!


----------



## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

lol Wayne Larivee forgot what network he was on.


----------



## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

Future said:


> Skiles's horrible coaching in the 4th....and the refs gave us this loss tonight.
> 
> I still don't understand why he brought in Pike for Duhon. Did he think Pike could stop Crawford? Bonehead move of the day.....


 Is it just me or did Skiles try to put Pike on Crawford last year as well and Crawford went off. Fool me once, shame on you, Fool me. . . wait this saying really doesn't apply here.


----------



## Future (Jul 24, 2002)

such sweet thunder said:


> Is it just me or did Skiles try to put Pike on Crawford last year as well and Crawford went off. Fool me once, shame on you, Fool me. . . wait this saying really doesn't apply here.


I think he did. I think Skiles thinks Pike's height makes up for his horrible lateral speed.


----------



## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

Future said:


> Skiles's horrible coaching in the 4th....and the refs gave us this loss tonight.
> 
> I still don't understand why he brought in Pike for Duhon. Did he think Pike could stop Crawford? Bonehead move of the day.....


The thought was that Pike could shoot us back into the game, while bringing some fresh legs to throw at Crawfish. It didn't really do much unfortunately. 

My biggest gripe (besides the Bulls' horrible defensive strategy to hack-a-Knick all game long) was sitting Deng for so long. He's been our hottest scorer the past 5 games, but he only plays 17 minutes. What's up with that? He wasn't in foul trouble...he didn't do anything boneheaded from what I saw. He could've made the difference in this game.


----------



## BullsAttitude (Jun 11, 2002)

PennyHardaway said:


> if the refs were calling it that way, your team should have attacked the basket to get the same treatment... but they settled for jump shots the entire game. the shots were falling early on, but just didnt fall the second half, at all
> 
> 
> btw, thanks for calling me all types of names guys. you guys prove how mature you are everytime you post. im just saying what i saw.



I'm not calling you names but it was the ticky tack fouls they called that Knicks did just as much of tonight yet was not called on them. Take those fouls away and the Knicks don't go to the line 57 times. Read that again, 57 times. 

You take 10 Free throws away, you lose the game and you still shoot 47 Free Throws to our 25. 

No Discrepency there huh. If you had only shot 10-15 more free throws, I can take a loss like this, but when a lot of the calls our ticky tack, sorry that's terrible NBA reffing.


----------



## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

Future said:


> I think he did. I think Skiles thinks Pike's height makes up for his horrible lateral speed.


 Maybe Rosen can explain how Pike's height also makes him a better shooter and more valuable off the bench.


----------



## UMfan83 (Jan 15, 2003)

This is the first time in awhile that I've been disapointed in the Bulls. Losing to the Knicks sucks, its like losing to the Cardinals.


----------



## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

guys, guys. Did we play well enough to win most games? Will this inordinate amount of fouls be called against us like this? Most likely not. Foul factor was compounded by the fact that we are playing back-to-back games.. The loss hurts because it's the Knicks... 

Knicks attacked the basket much like the Nets did earlier this year. I think we will be fine and we should not worry.

If anything, Skiles better watch his mouth and not criticize the refs. George Karl was suspended a couple games for doing the same.


----------



## Jesus Shuttlesworth (Aug 3, 2005)

Just because you attack the rim that doesn't mean the other team have to be automatically called for fouls. And that was pretty much what happened tonight. 

In the last quarter we were on the penalty since the 8:30 mark...That 5th foul on Chandler was pretty much ridiculous, as were a lot of other ones... A knick jumped, a foul was called, a knick screamed, a foul was called...

But of course, Bulls have their own share of guilty in this loss, like Piatkowski being in the game in those crucial minutes, some fatigue, and Gordon not getting enough shots in 4th when he was obviously hot... 

Overall this game reminded me of the one against Seattle last year...very poor refereeing

P.S - Frye is going to be a *hell* of a player!


----------



## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

spongyfungy said:


> If anything, Skiles better watch his mouth and not criticize the refs. George Karl was suspended a couple games for doing the same.


I disagree. It's abt DAMN time Skiles did do something abt the pathetic officiating against us on almost every night. For some reason he's always taken the high road but I hope that isn't the case tonight.


----------



## Future (Jul 24, 2002)

Chandler had a horrible game. I wish teams could decide not to pay a player when they don't earn their money. 

Chandler....Tim Thomas


----------



## BIGsHOTBOY12345 (Aug 24, 2005)

hey guys, thanks for a great game, i guess you should have kept crawford...lol.. juss playin.. by the way ukmm, is their a chance you guys might trade ben gordon? would you do this?

you get;
Lee
Malik

We get:
Ben Gordon

Eh? :biggrin:


----------



## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

SPMJ said:


> I disagree. It's abt DAMN time Skiles did do something abt the pathetic officiating against us on almost every night. For some reason he's always taken the high road but I hope that isn't the case tonight.


:biggrin: "for some reason"......

"SKiles! don't be classy!"

but he's more the passive aggressive type. He'll make some underhanded or sarcastic comment.


----------



## BIGsHOTBOY12345 (Aug 24, 2005)

Jesus Shuttlesworth said:


> Just because you attack the rim that doesn't mean the other team have to be automatically called for fouls. And that was pretty much what happened tonight.
> 
> In the last quarter we were on the penalty since the 8:30 mark...That 5th foul on Chandler was pretty much ridiculous, as were a lot of other ones... A knick jumped, a foul was called, a knick screamed, a foul was called...
> 
> ...


Hey dont blame us.. i agree on one thing, it was the ref's fault. you saw the rookie ref? you got alot of breathers too, considering the foul called on Malik, the travels you had, and the techalled on LB... we've had both our shares of bad ref calls...


----------



## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

SPMJ said:


> I disagree. It's abt DAMN time Skiles did do something abt the pathetic officiating against us on almost every night. For some reason he's always taken the high road but I hope that isn't the case tonight.


 Exactly. They're are so many ways to end a run. As Penny was commenting, any of guards driving to the hoop would have done it. This would have been a perfect game for Skiles to get himself tossed. He does that, Bulls win.


----------



## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

Would Tim Thomas have helped tonight? I think anyone else would have helped, especially a well-rested ANYONE. We ran out of gas and they took advantage in the fourth.


----------



## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

BIGsHOTBOY12345 said:


> you saw the rookie ref? you got alot of breathers too, considering the foul called on Malik, the travels you had, and the techalled on LB... we've had both our shares of bad ref calls...


What part of KNICKS ATTEMPTED 57 FREE THROWS are u having a hard time understanding?


----------



## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

spongyfungy said:


> Would Tim Thomas have helped tonight? I think anyone else would have helped, especially a well-rested ANYONE. We ran out of gas and they took advantage in the fourth.


Well, he probably wouldn't have fouled anybody. Wouldn't have done much of anything defensively, actually. You can't foul someone if you just stand there.


----------



## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

Highlights of all 40 fouls + 2 techs coming up.

:biggrin:


----------



## BIGsHOTBOY12345 (Aug 24, 2005)

SPMJ said:


> What part of KNICKS ATTEMPTED 57 FREE THROWS are u having a hard time understanding?
> 
> "You got breaks too". WTF is wrong with you?
> 
> Please leave.


your complaining about one loss?! did you watch the game with your eyes closed? sorry if we get fols.. thats why they have the replay for that.. DUH... wow knicks fans are rite.. you are pretty sensitive about one loss..


----------



## jimmy (Aug 20, 2002)

What a terrible game. The refs were awful, but Jamal played really well. His first win against the Bulls in two years.


----------



## BIGsHOTBOY12345 (Aug 24, 2005)

SPMJ said:


> What part of KNICKS ATTEMPTED 57 FREE THROWS are u having a hard time understanding?
> 
> "You got breaks too". WTF is wrong with you?
> 
> Please leave.


your complaining about one loss?! did you watch the game with your eyes closed? sorry if we get fols.. thats why they have the replay for that.. DUH... wow knicks fans are rite.. you are pretty sensitive about one loss..

LET ME GET ONE THING CLEAR..... WE EARNED OUR WINS JUST LIKE YOU EARN YOURS.... IF YOU HAVE REASONS OF COMPLAINING FOR JUST ONE LOSS< THEN WHY DONT YOU STOP WATCHING THE GAME??


----------



## jimmy (Aug 20, 2002)

Also,

Darius Songalia and Tyson Chandler


----------



## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

BIGsHOTBOY12345 said:


> your complaining about one loss?! did you watch the game with your eyes closed? sorry if we get fols.. thats why they have the replay for that.. DUH... wow knicks fans are rite.. you are pretty sensitive about one loss..


It's because it's the Knicks. Not only does the Knick-Bulls rivalry go back to the Jordan days, when many of us were growing up idolizing these guys, but the Knicks have several of our ex-players and there's a constant bickering here about whether Paxson did the right thing trading them. Anything Knicks-related here is just a sensitive topic.


----------



## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

SPMJ said:


> What part of KNICKS ATTEMPTED 57 FREE THROWS are u having a hard time understanding?
> 
> "You got breaks too". WTF is wrong with you?
> 
> Please leave.


No doubt the Knicks got the benefit of the calls,but Steph was taking it to the hole every time he touched the ball and the Bulls game is 100% perimeter except for Sweets...I am not busting on you guys,but WTF is up with Chandler??? 

No need to point the finger at the refs...Just point it at him..hes non existent on offense,and could barely contain AD...

And just out of curiousity what was running thru Skiles brain when he put P-ski on Jamal...That was cruel and unusual punishment...


----------



## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

SPMJ said:


> What part of KNICKS ATTEMPTED 57 FREE THROWS are u having a hard time understanding?
> 
> "You got breaks too". WTF is wrong with you?
> 
> Please leave.


I'm not mod, but chill out man. Let's not be unnecessarily rude to visiting Knicks fans.


----------



## BIGsHOTBOY12345 (Aug 24, 2005)

yodurk said:


> It's because it's the Knicks. Not only does the Knick-Bulls rivalry go back to the Jordan days, when many of us were growing up idolizing these guys, but the Knicks have several of our ex-players and there's a constant bickering here about whether Paxson did the right thing trading them. Anything Knicks-related here is just a sensitive topic.


i agree with you... but its one loss.. its not our fault paxson makes stupid trades for you guys... we just try to get good players like you... like eddy curry. you dont even use yor assets such as tim thomas, and hes a pretty good player....


----------



## ndistops (Oct 31, 2005)

3rd time this season the refs have decided that the other team gets to shoot double the FTs we do.

I don't care if we don't drive to the hoop. That might explain a 5-8 or so FT differential but not THIRTY-TWO MORE friggin free throws.

We won 47 games last year and we have a winning record against a pretty tough schedule so far this year, what is it going to take to get some respect from the officials?


----------



## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

Darius Miles Davis said:


> I'm not mod, but chill out man. Let's not be unnecessarily rude to visiting Knicks fans.


Thanks for the support,but we are NYkers....GTFO is how we say good morning in the big apple..we dont have midwest sensibilities


----------



## BIGsHOTBOY12345 (Aug 24, 2005)

Darius Miles Davis said:


> I'm not mod, but chill out man. Let's not be unnecessarily rude to visiting Knicks fans.


THANK YOU!!!! i just said good game and said we had our share of bad ref calls.. sorry about the disses though.... im just mad about some posters getting mad about ref calls. We got bad calls 2!!.. n e wayz... we mean good...


----------



## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

All I can say is wow.

I leave work, Bulls up near half by like 10.

Come home, game's over, and we lose? Crawdaddy went off on someone. Who guarded him?


----------



## ndistops (Oct 31, 2005)

DaBullz said:


> All I can say is wow.
> 
> I leave work, Bulls up near half by like 10.
> 
> Come home, game's over, and we lose? Crawdaddy went off on someone. Who guarded him?


Whoever wasn't being run out of the game by the refs calling a bazillion fouls on us.


----------



## Jesus Shuttlesworth (Aug 3, 2005)

Darius Miles Davis said:


> I'm not mod, but chill out man. Let's not be unnecessarily rude to visiting Knicks fans.


There's never enough rudeness towards visiting Knicks fans...

Just kiddin' :biggrin:


----------



## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

ndistops said:


> 3rd time this season the refs have decided that the other team gets to shoot double the FTs we do.
> 
> I don't care if we don't drive to the hoop. That might explain a 5-8 or so FT differential but not THIRTY-TWO MORE friggin free throws.
> 
> We won 47 games last year and we have a winning record against a pretty tough schedule so far this year, what is it going to take to get some respect from the officials?


You want respect??Try taking the ball to the hoop....Look at a breakdown and see where your shots were coming from.....And stop playing 4 on 5..Chandler is a ghost on offense


----------



## Jesus Shuttlesworth (Aug 3, 2005)

DaBullz said:


> All I can say is wow.
> 
> I leave work, Bulls up near half by like 10.
> 
> Come home, game's over, and we lose? Crawdaddy went off on someone. Who guarded him?


When it mattered the most, Piatkowski guarded him...


----------



## BIGsHOTBOY12345 (Aug 24, 2005)

Can All Of You Stop Complaining About Free Throws?! The Bottom Line Is>>> Even With The Fouls We Got>>> There Was A 50% Chance We Would Even Get Half Of Them in... Its Good Play!!! Thank You for Playing Welll!!! We'll See U Later...


----------



## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

Alrighty be kind all..

Knicks fans, you have to understand we need our grieving space because this loss was tough to swallow. It's hard to be humble when bulls fans feel they were gipped. Enjoy the win. Don't let the Bulls fans sulking get in the way.


----------



## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

truth said:


> No doubt the Knicks got the benefit of the calls,but Steph was taking it to the hole every time he touched the ball and the Bulls game is 100% perimeter except for Sweets...I am not busting on you guys,but WTF is up with Chandler???
> 
> No need to point the finger at the refs...Just point it at him..hes non existent on offense,and could barely contain AD...
> 
> And just out of curiousity what was running thru Skiles brain when he put P-ski on Jamal...That was cruel and unusual punishment...


He was probably thinking about how happy he was that Pax decided to save money by not signing up Adrian Griffin.

-------------------

I'm glad I had booz for this game. It sucked. Sweetney's played like garbage for several games in a row now that teams adjusted to him being out there. Duhon's shot has looked dangerous (to us) the last two games. Chandler... lets just not talk about Chandler and pretend we didn't see what we saw tonight.

Still, this was the second game of a back to back. A couple more guys off the bench, another big body, and we maybe could have sqeaked this one out. Those problems are fixable (of course, I'd argue that if we'd done things right, we wouldn't have those problems now, but lets not go there).


----------



## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Jesus Shuttlesworth said:


> When it mattered the most, Piatkowski guarded him...


Hey, we traded Crawford for Pike. Got the nasty end of the stick on that one. Call it anlke breaking crossover vs. the Polish crossover.

But seriously, this was the back end of two nights in a row with travel to the east coast in between. We benefitted against Orlando yesterday for the same reasons - they looked tired, out of gas. Tonight, sounds like we were, too.


----------



## ndistops (Oct 31, 2005)

truth said:


> You want respect??Try taking the ball to the hoop....Look at a breakdown and see where your shots were coming from.....And stop playing 4 on 5..Chandler is a ghost on offense


Didn't I JUST SAY that no amount of not driving to the hoop can justify a THIRTY-TWO free throw differential? Read my entire posts before commenting on them please.


----------



## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

ugh.

well that sucked.

guys, the refs didn't lose this game for the bulls. the bulls lost it, completely in the 4th. it was all them. just ran out of gas. couldn't make stops. got embarrassingly outscored. 

yeah there were some late whistles and outrageous calls (like the marbury tripping up duhon one or the no contact ticky tack on kirk in the first half) but the bulls lost their legs and poise in the 4th. when skiles put the polish rifle in to try and guard jamal, scottmay turned to me and said "well that's it". game over. 

one or two thoughts, back later with more:

everytime nocioni hit i yelled "happy birthday". did you hear me? :laugh: he had a nice game. including the special birthday spa service facial courtesy of frye. microdermabrasion! 

and let me just say this: frye = stud. really impressive. 

nate robinson = midget. there were some kiddies playing this exhibition thing at the half that were taller than him. but they love him at the garden. 

kirk played ok. gordon wasn't really a factor. duhon either. you can tell he's now skittish with the shot confidence after sucking so much air the last game. it was very frustrating watching deng sit in the 4th. chandler had a few nice blocks. but the biggest block is his blockhead. songaila? he was pretty bad. 

so we had fun until the 4th. but the knicks wanted it more. 

scottmay only had one ranch one sandwich. it was that kind of night.

oh, and our seats were AWESOME!


----------



## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

How much better is Frye right now, then Chandler will ever be?


----------



## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

mizenkay said:


> ugh.
> 
> gordon wasn't really a factor.


28 points in 27 minutes are you CRAZY??!
If it wasnt for Ben we would have been blown out by 20+.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

ndistops said:


> Didn't I JUST SAY that no amount of not driving to the hoop can justify a THIRTY-TWO free throw differential? Read my entire posts before commenting on them please.


I read exactly what you wrote..I dont thinki a 32 free throw disparity is that big when you played us 4 on 5 and neber took the ball to the hoop....

Chandler?? 0 points and 5 boards??against AD???

Your guards dont attack..what do you expect???


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

0 points 5 rebounds is pathethic for Tyson, this guy is a tottall bust if your going to just look at what hes making in terms of money and his production on the court.


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## Qwst25 (Apr 24, 2004)

It's games like this that make me think whats the point of even following basketball. The NBA shouldn't be allowing stuff like this. 57 free throw attempts vs. 25. This has to be some sort of joke. Hopefully this doesn't happen again this season, to any team. The game should be won on the court; not by refs who like the sound of their whistles.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

truth said:


> I read exactly what you wrote..I dont thinki a 32 free throw disparity is that big when you played us 4 on 5 and neber took the ball to the hoop....
> 
> Chandler?? 0 points and 5 boards??against AD???
> 
> Your guards dont attack..what do you expect???


Whenever Gordon went to the basket he would get creamed and no foul, whenever Marbury or Crawford went to the basket it was an instant fould on ticky tack calls.


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## El Chapu (Oct 23, 2004)

Well, I left and decided to run nba.com's play-by-play for some kind of excitement (huh?). And when I got to the 4th quarter it was pathetic. PF here, PF there, and If Im not mistaken, we were already without fouls to give with around 8 minutes remaining. Ugly. But since I didnt watch the game, I cant give my opinion about the refs. 

This loss completly *****, obviously because we drop a game and the Knicks get better (lottery purposes). 

Well, hopefully we get some rest and hand it to the Celts at their very own yard.


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## ndistops (Oct 31, 2005)

Qwst25 said:


> It's games like this that make me think whats the point of even following basketball. The NBA shouldn't be allowing stuff like this. 57 free throw attempts vs. 25. This has to be some sort of joke. Hopefully this doesn't happen again this season, to any team. The game should be won on the court; not by refs who like the sound of their whistles.


And same refs apparently also like hearing the cheers of the crowd because they didn't seem to like blowing the whistle as much the other way.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

thebizkit69u said:


> Whenever Gordon went to the basket he would get creamed and no foul, whenever Marbury or Crawford went to the basket it was an instant fould on ticky tack calls.


Just be thankful the Big fella didnt play....


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

thebizkit69u said:


> 28 points in 27 minutes are you CRAZY??!
> If it wasnt for Ben we would have been blown out by 20+.



yeah i am. but from my seat he wasn't the factor when we needed it. sorry. 

he needs to "sell the foul". he drives to the basket and pulls back. and doesn't get the contact and doesn't get to the line.


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## TRUTHHURTS (Mar 1, 2003)

Tough loss ......

We were making our shots the first half and then in the second half we missed a few and Crawford hit a couple of shots but when he blocked bens three in the corner it took the wind right out of our sails and gave him a boost.

I really think Skiles put Pike on Crawford in hopes the old jamal would show up and start throwing up fadeaway three point shots but he doesnt do that anymore. 

Tyson needed more incentives in his contract that kid shouldve been offered the Mle with incentives taking it up 9 million.He made out like a bandit.

Bulls looked tired and settled for jumpshots the knicks started driving to the basket and never stopped even after a few offensive fouls .

No Eddy kinda took the luster out of this game .


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## Jesus Shuttlesworth (Aug 3, 2005)

such sweet thunder said:


> How much better is Frye right now, then Chandler will ever be?


Well Frye sure looked like a 60 million dollar contract player and Chandler looked like a rookie...


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## El Chapu (Oct 23, 2004)

Miz, since you are a mod and had great seats at MSG, you own us an extensive report about the game and our players. Analysis. :biggrin: 

Gracias!

:banana:


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

truth said:


> Just be thankful the Big fella didnt play....


Are you talking about Curry?
I wish he was playing instead of Fry.


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

El Chapu said:


> Miz, since you are a mod and had great seats at MSG, you own us an extensive report about the game and our players. Analysis. :biggrin:
> 
> Gracias!
> 
> :banana:


just wait till scottmay gets on. he'll give a much better breakdown than i ever could.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

thebizkit69u said:


> Are you talking about Curry?
> I wish he was playing instead of Fry.


LOl..yes, i was talking about senor Curry...not the big wopper,Jerome James

Speaking of Frye,i have never ever seen worse scouting /draft analysis on a player in my life...Everything they said about him was dead wrong.....


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

truth said:


> LOl..yes, i was talking about senor Curry...not the big wopper,Jerome James
> 
> Speaking of Frye,i have never ever seen worse scouting /draft analysis on a player in my life...Everything they said about him was dead wrong.....


If you or anyone else ever seen him college they would not be saying that stuff about him. He was a beast against Illinois and he was such a great player in College. I dont listen to what all these so called experts have to say about guys like that, for one scouts where calling Tyson Chandler the next KG and Dwight Howard was supposed to be to soft and privilaged to make in impact in the NBA.


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## jimmy (Aug 20, 2002)

BIGsHOTBOY12345 said:


> i agree with you... but its one loss.. its not our fault paxson makes stupid trades for you guysQUOTE]
> 
> 
> The Knicks were terrible last year and terrible this year. What are you talking about?


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## El Chapu (Oct 23, 2004)

truth said:


> Speaking of Frye,i have never ever seen worse scouting /draft analysis on a player in my life...Everything they said about him was dead wrong.....


Conspiracy :groucho:


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## jimmy (Aug 20, 2002)

jimmy said:


> BIGsHOTBOY12345 said:
> 
> 
> > i agree with you... but its one loss.. its not our fault paxson makes stupid trades for you guys
> ...


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## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

jimmy said:


> The Knicks were terrible last year and terrible this year. What are you talking about?


Then what does that make us?


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

spongyfungy said:


> Then what does that make us?


Poopie Heads.


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## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

Skiles has some harsh words : 

"We had terrible trouble keeping their guards from penetrating and our bigs were pretty much no-shows as far as coming over to help or doing anything," Bulls coach Scott Skiles said. "They were all slow reacting. We were constantly a step slow."

"I was disappointed in our fouling more than anything else," Skiles said. "We just continue to foul and foul and let them parade to the line. And when that happens it has an effect on your offense, too, because then it is a disjointed game."

"We came apart there a little bit," said Chicago head coach Scott Skiles. You can't let a team shoot 57 free throws and turn the ball over 19 times and expect to win the game...They really took advantage of it in the fourth quarter." 

http://www.msgnetwork.com/content_news.jsp?articleID=v0000msgn20051201T032152137&newsgroup=ap.sportsml.columnist.article&sports=basketball&team=Knicks&league=nba

"I don't think they really went to the hole a lot in the second half," Frye said.

All the fouling certainly didn't help the Bulls' offense. They committed 40 and had three players foul out.


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## El Chapu (Oct 23, 2004)

spongyfungy said:


> Then what does that make us?


I dont understand your logic. :biggrin: 

When people come out saying the Knicks are terrible, this and that, you know its frustration. They won, I guess they were the better team tonight but they are by no means terrible. And we still have to see that team at full strength....and give LB some more time to do his thing. Terrible are the Hawks, not the Knicks.


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

just want to clarify my comments about gordon not really being a factor. i mean, cause obviously he was. it was just one of those games where, with all the calls, and the weird rotations by skiles at the end, that made his great shooting night kinda disappear for me virtually as i was watching it. it was like yeah, he scored 28, but he really didn't do too much else. if that makes sense. i mean he got burned badly at one point by crawford - i watched that play thru the binocs and upclose it wasn't pretty. i offered the binocs to scottmay, but he declined, saying it would give him motion sickness. and he was right! dizzy!

it's like when he drives into the paint and doesn't go for the contact and just pulls up. like he's there, but he doesn't want contact. it's just an odd part of his game that seemed more evident to me in person, than on television for some reason. and yeah he was money from downtown. and was an effective crowd silencer. 

i got more of a sense that with gordon it really is all about his offense and that he doesn't seem to involve his teammates much. i mean he's better at it this year than last and overall his defense has improved. but for some really strange reason tonight while he was really good, in a strange way, he just seemed like he wasn't all there. that's just the impression i was left with. 

none of our guys really played an outstanding game on both ends tonight for any real stretches.
i guess the main impression i was left with tonight was the fourth quarter meltdown. that trumped everything. 

but i did spot several gordon jerseys in the crowd. ztect, was that you??


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

mizenkay said:


> just want to clarify my comments about gordon not really being a factor. i mean, cause obviously he was. it was just one of those games where, with all the calls, and the weird rotations by skiles at the end, that made his great shooting night kinda disappear for me virtually as i was watching it. it was like yeah, he scored 28, but he really didn't do too much else. if that makes sense. i mean he got burned badly at one point by crawford - i watched that play thru the binocs and upclose it wasn't pretty. i offered the binocs to scottmay, but he declined, saying it would give him motion sickness. and he was right! dizzy!
> 
> it's like when he drives into the paint and doesn't go for the contact and just pulls up. like he's there, but he doesn't want contact. it's just an odd part of his game that seemed more evident to me in person, than on television for some reason. and yeah he was money from downtown. and was an effective crowd silencer.
> 
> ...


Between 2000 and 2004 I went to several Bulls/Knicks games alone in my Jay Williams jersey. I wasn't rude, but I was loud. It was fun. LOL. One of them was the game where Isaiah fell in love with Jamal when he just torched the Knicks.

Whoops, I don't want to talk about Jamal anymore.


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

mizenkay said:


> it's like when he drives into the paint and doesn't go for the contact and just pulls up. like he's there, but he doesn't want contact. it's just an odd part of his game that seemed more evident to me in person, than on television for some reason. and yeah he was money from downtown. and was an effective crowd silencer.












When I read your comments, I was reminded of Dwayne Wade's first couple months in the league. Do you folks remember his game before he started putting everything together? He wasn't comfortable shooting the ball and the game was moving a little to fast to thread passes to his teammates, so he would just take the ball to the hoop -- time after time; seeking contact so he could go to the line. Reckless abandon.

Then I'm reminded of Skiles' comments about working hard on the court, and how it's not effort as much as a skill. And some player's just don't have the ability to bring the requisite intensity.

Depressing, as it may be. . . the ability to draw contact may be something Duhon, Hinrich, or Gordon are simply incapable of. If any one of our guards were able to create a foul tonight we would be celebrating a win. 

Ug, maybe Deng; I still believe he has a chance to learn the mentality.


Edit: no more what-ifs, but Ron Artest. . .


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

FWIW

Cleveland shot 47 FTs tonight:

LeBron 14-17
Hughes 12-14
Z 11-11


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

mizenkay said:


> just want to clarify my comments about gordon not really being a factor. i mean, cause obviously he was. it was just one of those games where, with all the calls, and the weird rotations by skiles at the end, that made his great shooting night kinda disappear for me virtually as i was watching it. it was like yeah, he scored 28, but he really didn't do too much else. if that makes sense. i mean he got burned badly at one point by crawford - i watched that play thru the binocs and upclose it wasn't pretty. i offered the binocs to scottmay, but he declined, saying it would give him motion sickness. and he was right! dizzy!
> 
> it's like when he drives into the paint and doesn't go for the contact and just pulls up. like he's there, but he doesn't want contact. it's just an odd part of his game that seemed more evident to me in person, than on television for some reason. and yeah he was money from downtown. and was an effective crowd silencer.
> 
> ...


LOL

Gordon certainly disappeared tonight. For about 20 minutes (he played just 28).


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

Before I post a few thoughts on the game, an idea.

How about every year, on, say, July 27, a randomly selected American city gets to host a fireworks/Thanksgiving parade/Christmas tree/New Year's celebration exclusively for residents of New York City. You know, we'll come and piss on your lawns, vomit in your streets, clog your sidewalks, ruin your transportation systems, and just generally make a godawful mess of things, then go home without cleaning up.

Fair deal?

(It took me a rid-goddamn-diculous amount of time to get home because a few hundred thousand hayseeds came to see Al Roker flip a switch and turn on some Christmas lights. ARRRRgh!)


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

Translation for Chicagoans, to follow: 



ScottMay said:


> Before I post a few thoughts on the game, an idea.


I'm so excited, before I recap the game, I must tell you all about the wonderful people I met on the way home. 


> How about every year, on, say, July 27, a randomly selected American city gets to host a fireworks/Thanksgiving parade/Christmas tree/New Year's celebration exclusively for residents of New York City. You know, we'll come and piss on your lawns, vomit in your streets, clog your sidewalks, ruin your transportation systems, and just generally make a godawful mess of things, then go home without cleaning up.


I propose a cultural exchange, where we New Yorkers can meet our many visitors in their home cities, and share in the spirit of peace and unity. 



> Fair deal?


Is this acceptable, good people?



> (It took me a rid-goddamn-diculous amount of time to get home because a few hundred thousand hayseeds came to see Al Roker flip a switch and turn on some Christmas lights. ARRRRgh!)


I came as quickly as I could to share my many perceptions on basketball, but was temporarily detained. There were many citizens peacefully assembled to share in the holiday spirit of peace and joy. Our true National leader illuminated the great symbol of our cities warmth and love. Godspeed fellow citizen, Godspeed.


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## jimmy (Aug 20, 2002)

spongyfungy said:


> Then what does that make us?



Well, let's see....

After the Crawford deal, we went on to win 47 games and secured home court in the playoffs. The Knicks were one of the worst teams in the league.


After the Curry trade, we're .500 (better than what we were last season), better than the Knicks (record wise), and would be in the playoffs if they started today.



Judging by that, IT was the one making stupid trades, not Pax.


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

Random observations:

-- Thank you to the lovely, witty, very pleasant-to-be-with miz for procuring some GREAT seats to the game. We basically had the camera's-eye view of the game -- pretty much right at the half-court stripe, nice elevation. 

-- The officiating crew was young, impressionable, and disturbingly flexible in the case of one of the refs, but we can't pin this loss on them. Yeah, there were a couple of botched calls and one hilariously late whistle, but the Bulls settled for jumpers in the second half and didn't attack the basket. 

-- Skiles was badly outcoached by Brown tonight. That's not necessarily a compliment to Brown; I think a trained monkey could have done a better job with rotations, fouls or no fouls. I love to watch the team's benches during timeouts, and we had a good view of the benches from these seats. Eric Piatkowski had no reason at all to think he'd play tonight, especially after the (very successful) Basden cameo in the first half. Putting him in at the juncture Skiles did, and having him guard Crawford to boot, was just a headscratcher to me.

-- Even though it doesn't jump out at you in the box score, the Bulls did a terrible job of defensive rebounding. Noce and Deng have somehow become our best defensive rebounders, which is scary. We desperately need Pax to beat the bushes for a legit seven-footer, the empty roster spot that's being reserved to facilitate a blockbuster be damned.

-- As miz can well attest, I wouldn't jump on the Darius Songalia bandwagon right now even if it was full of hot strippers and geysers of Grey Goose. Just an awful floor game, terrible decision-making, and lousy defense/defensive rebounding. 

-- I am on the verge of going into a full-fledged panic over how Luol Deng is being handled by Skiles. Our best long-term prospect? Check. Probably our most versatile defender? Check. A good defensive rebounder / fast-break player? Check. What am I missing? Are there restrictions on his minutes in relation to his wrist rehab? He didn't look great tonight, but 18 minutes just isn't going to cut the mustard, and if the trend continues, we're going to have another unhappy camper on our hands.

-- I fully understand the point miz is trying to make about Gordon. The tools are all there. In warmups (miz and I took our seats at about 4:45), he did a dunk that would have scored him a fifty if it was in the contest: elevated, between the legs, tomahawk. The guy's physical gifts are unreal, and he's strong as an ox. But he falls in love with/relies on the jumper way too much. He should be getting to the line and setting up others far more often than he does.

-- Hinrich and Duhon are insane, rabid dogs on the defensive end. On one of Crawford's rare second-half misses, Hinrich was totally wiped out by a screen (don't remember who) and Crawford got the ball at the three-point stripe. Somehow Kirk recovered and got out to effectively challenge the shot almost instantly. It was the second-most impressive play of the game in my eyes.

-- The most impressive play of the game was Ariza's dunk. I am going to have to think about it for a day, but it may have been the best dunk I've ever seen in an NBA game in person. Elevation + hang time. Yikes.

-- I am sticking firm on my preseason opinion that the Knicks are going to be pretty close to .500 when the season's over. I don't like a lot of their players -- indeed, even as he was having such a good game, Crawford made a couple of just unforgiveable lapses, the worst being when he shot way too soon when the Knicks were trying to run out the third quarter. But there is a pretty huge critical mass of talent there. Frye is really, really good. Ariza and Robinson are inconsistent, but they have plenty of promise. Marbury, Curry, and Crawford may not be your cup of tea, but they can play. Add a core of vets in Taylor and Rose and AD and a coach like Brown and I don't think our draft picks from the Curry deal are going to amount to anything earth-shattering.

-- The last few years of losing have pussified the Garden crowd. miz and I were very vocal when the going was good. In years' past, we would have been subject to much abuse as the Knicks made their comeback and stole the win. Tonight? Not a peep. In fact, the guy next to me who spent ten minutes describing Ariza's dunk to someone on his cell phone wished us a meek "good night" as he left the game. Losers.

-- Henceforth, whenever I am participating in game threads or watching a game in person with one of you, I will be handing out "Jib Points" to Bulls players when they make a particularly hard-nosed non-scoring sort of play. For example, Hinrich got a Jib Point for the aforementioned challenge of a Crawford shot attempt. Noce got a standard-setting TWO Jib Points on a single play, his taking a charge on Jackie Butler (Noce's parents must have felt that one). I am aware that it is shamelessly ripped off from Tommy Heinsohn, but I don't care.


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## TRUTHHURTS (Mar 1, 2003)

ScottMay said:


> Random observations:
> 
> -- Thank you to the lovely, witty, very pleasant-to-be-with miz for procuring some GREAT seats to the game. We basically had the camera's-eye view of the game -- pretty much right at the half-court stripe, nice elevation.
> 
> ...



Great analysis scottmay !

What are your impressions of Chandler when compared to Frye in person ? also did both Skiles and Browns rotations look as bad in person as they seemed on tv ?


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

TRUTHHURTS said:


> Great analysis scottmay !
> 
> What are your impressions of Chandler when compared to Frye in person ? also did both Skiles and Browns rotations look as bad in person as they seemed on tv ?


Frye's not on Chandler's level as a run-jump athlete, and Tyson's got a legitimate 2-3 inches on him. But Frye's advantage in terms of basketball skills is pronounced. I mean, he shoots the ball like a guard, and more importantly, he knows where to get his shots and he's really smart in going about it. He has a lot of jib.

If I were a GM picking between the two of them, though, I'd pick Chandler. The defensive impact he has is enormous. Frye is great -- and my appreciation of him is magnified by our team's need for someone like him right now -- but I don't see him ever having a similar impact. Having Frye play *alongside* Chandler would be amazing (sort of Bosh-lite).

I don't know what Skiles and Brown were thinking tonight, but Skiles one-upped or one-downed Brown, depending on how you look at it. I was shocked, though, that Brown pulled Ariza when Skiles went to the three-guard lineup. That didn't make any sense to me. 

I forgot one other thing I wanted to mention -- Quentin Richardson was a DNP-CD tonight. I know he's got some nagging injuries, but he went through a full warm-up and was suited and could have played. But he is all kinds of messed up right now -- I watched him shoot for a while and he was throwing up airballs and bricking shots left and right.


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

I have a question for someone who watched the game on TV!

There was a big brouhaha with Hinrich and one of the officials in the fourth on a Knicks' free-throw attempt. The ref was gesticulating wildly at Hinrich and making him move from one side of the lane to the other, and Hinrich ended up getting a delay-of-game warning. Can anyone explain what that was about?


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## Bull_Market (Aug 13, 2005)

> Thank you to the lovely, witty, very pleasant-to-be-with miz


:raised_ey :drool:  :makeout: :kiss: :buddies: :groucho: :gossip: :cheers:


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## RoRo (Aug 21, 2002)

ScottMay said:


> I don't know what Skiles and Brown were thinking tonight, but Skiles one-upped or one-downed Brown, depending on how you look at it. I was shocked, though, that Brown pulled Ariza when Skiles went to the three-guard lineup. That didn't make any sense to me.
> 
> I forgot one other thing I wanted to mention -- Quentin Richardson was a DNP-CD tonight. I know he's got some nagging injuries, but he went through a full warm-up and was suited and could have played. But he is all kinds of messed up right now -- I watched him shoot for a while and he was throwing up airballs and bricking shots left and right.


who did brown sub for ariza? maybe he wanted more ball handlers out there vs the three guard lineup? not sure since I missed the game :/

and it doesn't sound like Q is any different from earlier this season. he's been a pretty bad chucker from the handful of games i've seen this year.

and thanks for the observations, helps get a better picture of the game.


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## ztect (Jun 12, 2002)

Went to the game tonight....

A few observations--

Chandler must have the IQ of a peanut. It's great to give a hard foul and make another player earn his points from the stripe, BUT NOT when you have 4 fouls in the third quarter, or five fouls early in the fourth quarter.
Geeze was his play stupid, and w/o Chandler Bulls have absolutely no one who can alter a shot or be the slightest bit intimidating in the paint.

Songalia was awful. Seems completely lost in the Bulls system, plus he probably misses the urinal and sprays the wall if the way he finishes around the basket is any indication of how he uses a public bathroom.

Songalia simply can't finish a basket. He kept missing from right in front of the rim on easy looks. 

Badsen is considerably bigger than the other Bulls guards. he doesn't look that much bigger on TV.


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## ztect (Jun 12, 2002)

RoRo said:


> who did brown sub for ariza? maybe he wanted more ball handlers out there vs the three guard lineup? not sure since I missed the game :/
> 
> and it doesn't sound like Q is any different from earlier this season. he's been a pretty bad chucker from the handful of games i've seen this year.
> 
> and thanks for the observations, helps get a better picture of the game.


He subbed Crawford for Ariza, when Skiles went small with Duhon, Gordon & Kirk. With Crawford in, Brown had Marbury, Crawford & Nate Robinson. Robinson looks like he's really more like 5'7 than 5'9. He's really tiny in height and physique.


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## RoRo (Aug 21, 2002)

ztect said:


> He subbed Crawford for Ariza, when Skiles went small with Duhon, Gordon & Kirk. With Crawford in, Brown had Marbury, Crawford & Nate Robinson. Robinson looks like he's really more like 5'7 than 5'9. He's really tiny in height and physique.


thanks, man i wish i could've seen this game. 

nate robinson is a physical freak and tough as nails. enjoyed watching him at UW because he was just so damn explosive. he was originally there to play football.


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## narek (Jul 29, 2005)

ScottMay said:


> I have a question for someone who watched the game on TV!
> 
> There was a big brouhaha with Hinrich and one of the officials in the fourth on a Knicks' free-throw attempt. The ref was gesticulating wildly at Hinrich and making him move from one side of the lane to the other, and Hinrich ended up getting a delay-of-game warning. Can anyone explain what that was about?


Didn't watch (well, listen) to the game and there's no mention of the incident in the papers this am that I can find, but there is this from the Daily Herald:



> In the fourth quarter, the Bulls were whistled for 9 fouls before the Knicks received any. There were questionable calls along the way. At one point, Skiles could be heard yelling from the bench, “I’d like to see Hinrich get that call just once,” after Knicks guard Nate Robinson was sent to the line.



Maybe Hinrich was just stating his case the the refs got mad?


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

ScottMay said:


> I have a question for someone who watched the game on TV!
> 
> There was a big brouhaha with Hinrich and one of the officials in the fourth on a Knicks' free-throw attempt. The ref was gesticulating wildly at Hinrich and making him move from one side of the lane to the other, and Hinrich ended up getting a delay-of-game warning. Can anyone explain what that was about?


I was watching the Knicks feed on LP, and they said Kirk was trying to switch sides on the lane after the official was set to give the ball to the shooter and they wouldn't let him switch. Kirk bugged out, and instead of T'ing him up, they gave a delay of game.


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

ztect said:


> Went to the game tonight....
> 
> A few observations--
> 
> ...


The fifth Chandler foul was dumb, I agree, but not as dumb as the lackadaisical, "I had absolutely no idea I was going to play tonight, let alone be inserted into the game at a key moment in the fourth quarter" pass by Piatkowski that led to it. I guess you can argue that Chandler should have just run off the court and stayed away from the play, but that approach isn't in the Bulls DNA (sorry). Hinrich got a very similar key foul on a breakway by NateRob.

Overall, though, you're right -- it's tough to imagine the Bulls winning a close game without Chandler on the floor. So they need to continue to teach him to not waste his fouls.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

If you start a jib points thread, I'll sticky it. In the first post, put the team roster and 0 points each (1 for Hinrich). You can edit that post as you give out points. The rest of the thread you can use to describe the plays that earned them, and folks can make nominations, etc.


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

thank you for those kind words, scottmay. right back at ya. and thanks for humoring me by getting there so darned early. :smilewink 

oh and i mixed up ariza and frye on that dunk. my bad. but yeah. that was crazy.


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## Hustle (Dec 17, 2003)

TomBoerwinkle#1 said:


> I was watching the Knicks feed on LP, and they said Kirk was trying to switch sides on the lane after the official was set to give the ball to the shooter and they wouldn't let him switch. Kirk bugged out, and instead of T'ing him up, they gave a delay of game.


The officials finally drew a line in the sand for how much they are willing to screw us. Not to say we don't foul a lot, but we get a lot more horrible calls than we are given.


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

:|


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## narek (Jul 29, 2005)

mizenkay said:


> :|


I thinking of getting tickets to the January 18th game even though I'd have to take vacation to come down and see the game. I want to see Hinrich scoring over Crawford.


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## lgtwins (May 18, 2004)

mizenkay said:


> :|


For once. Sure when you play each other often enough, even JC can do what he did once in a while. No big deal.

I am more pissed by poor Q4 and those ridiculous refrees.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

Emotional though it might be, this loss (and win for the NYK), is just another NBA game.

Regroup and move on. I still believe we're a better team, and so does most everyone here, so theres really no reason to go off into paranoia.

Or does anyone believe that we'd lose if we'd start a seven game series with them tomorrow...homecourt belonging to either side?


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## Frankensteiner (Dec 29, 2004)

As far as Deng only getting 18 minutes, I'm not really too concerned. Noc was having a pretty good game shooting the ball and Skiles didn't seem interested in going to a small lineup (i.e. 2 guards, Deng, Noc, C) untill going with the 3 guards in the 4th quarter.


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

DaBullz said:


> If you start a jib points thread, I'll sticky it. In the first post, put the team roster and 0 points each (1 for Hinrich). You can edit that post as you give out points. The rest of the thread you can use to describe the plays that earned them, and folks can make nominations, etc.


I like the idea.


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## anorexorcist (Aug 3, 2005)

Tyson Chandler is the most frustrating player to watch sometimes cuz he can be so dominating sometimes and so ineffective at others, and in person it IS even worse.

Last year I went to the Bulls-Pistons (2nd game) that went to OT. Chandler was a freaking hero during regulation, and then he disappared in the extra period, getting too emotional and wrapped up in it. I didn't think about this then, as I was being swayed by Tyson's hyping up the crowd and shouting at the top of my lungs, but after the game when I threw up on the way home in disgust at how the Bulls could allow 8 points in 2 minutes (TRUE STORY, I AM NOT JOKING) I realized that the overexcitement primarily by him was the reason for the loss.

ScottMay/Miz thats awesome, a bulls fan and fan-ette  from ny met up and watched the game. Forgive me cuz i'm a n00b to this site but is this kind of common? members of the boards meeting up and watching games? i dunno if its the area of chicago i live in or the people i know but i almost always end up going to games with my dad and then always the pistons at that (he grew up in motown), because no one else seems to want to go 

im getting 3 sets of season tix next year so if anyone wants to pay me for some games (for a healthy, affordable price) and watch with, lemme know.

-Z-


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

Anyone else want to pull that Crawford trade back or is it just me? He is really starting to understand what he has to do to be successful IMO. Impressive block he had on Gordon. Shame the Bulls lost, it cost me moneY!


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

ace20004u said:


> Anyone else want to pull that Crawford trade back or is it just me? He is really starting to understand what he has to do to be successful IMO. Impressive block he had on Gordon. Shame the Bulls lost, it cost me moneY!




Yes, I would. 

Jamal would be great as an instant offense off the bench role. We'd have 4 good guards on the roster, which would make it a lot less painful to pull off a consolidation trade for Paul Pierce. 

Stretches of a small lineup of Hinrich, Crawford and Gordon would be a lot of fun to watch, and a potentially overwhelming offensive trio.

Oh well, what's done is done. I also realize that Jamal is not many people’s cup of tea. He’s not really my cup of tea to tell ya the truth, but I can appreciate what he can bring to the table. He can win games for you…. Ala Ben Gordon in some ways.

I didn't see all of the game last nite  due to card playing but it looks like Jamal really stuck it to the Bulls. He almost did the same last season, except he choked on two FTs at the end. That crawsover someone posted on Gordon is sikkkkkkkkk. 

Its just one regular season game, so its not that big a deal. 

Bulls will shut down the engines, recharge the batteries and be back strong for Friday.


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## jbulls (Aug 31, 2005)

ace20004u said:


> Anyone else want to pull that Crawford trade back or is it just me? He is really starting to understand what he has to do to be successful IMO. Impressive block he had on Gordon. Shame the Bulls lost, it cost me moneY!


Not me. I like Jamal but that deal was just too big, IMO. Crawford would've added a bit of size to our backcourt, but he's not a plus defender and it seems to me that our backcourt size is a bigger issue on defense than it is on offense. Nice game for him last night though.

I agree w/ what k4e says about Crawford being a great 6th man instant offense type, I'm just not sure you pay 56 million dollars for that kind of player.


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

From Chris Sheridan's "Daily Dime":



> 9:50 p.m. Eric Piatkowski checks in for the first time in the game, and on his first touch his pass is intercepted by Antonio Davis for a breakaway. Davis makes two foul shots to complete a 13-0 run to open the quarter.
> 
> 9:52 p.m. Crawford is isolated on Piatkowski and loses him with a crossover.
> 
> ...


http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailydime?page=dailydime-051201

I don't want lay too much blame at the feet of the Polish Rifle, but his stint in the game was painfully costly and ill-advised.


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

such sweet thunder said:


> Translation for Chicagoans, to follow:
> 
> 
> I'm so excited, before I recap the game, I must tell you all about the wonderful people I met on the way home.
> ...


:laugh:

I missed this last night. 

Damn you all.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

Can I wish for a time machine and a Hinrich, Iggy, Deng lineup with Duhon and Crawford coming off the bench?

1- Kirk 26, Duhon 22
2- Iggy 14, Kirk 10, Jamal 24
3- Deng 32, Iggy 16
4- Davis 18, Noc 18, Chandler 12
5- Curry 30, _Chandler 18_

_(Playing Deng a bit at the 4 as he fills out and Davis gets phased out, thus opening up more minutes for Iggy at the 3, which opens up more minutes for Kirk and Jamal at the 2 and Duhon at the 1)_.

At least, that's my idea of a damn good basketball team.


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## jbulls (Aug 31, 2005)

ScottMay said:


> From Chris Sheridan's "Daily Dime":
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I wasn't watching the game but time and again Skiles puts in the end of the bench guys to prove a point when he should stick with his best players and ride out a rough patch. "GORDON! One more pull-up crossover and I'm putting in Piatkowski!"

The ironic thing is that some Skiles favorites (Noc, Pike in particular) produce some ridiculously comic (perhaps for Bulls fans tragicomic would be the better term) turnovers, they just do so in a less flashy manner.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

jbulls said:


> I agree w/ what k4e says about Crawford being a great 6th man instant offense type, I'm just not sure you pay 56 million dollars for that kind of player.


Crawford is making 6.48 million this year. I think if you take a look around the NBA and look at the players that make between 6-8 mil a year you'll find that Crawfrod is fairly paid.

Next season he makes 7.2... 7.9 after that... he'll be a fairly valued player for his whole career, barring injury.

Even though he's not starting all the time for the Knicks, Brown still feels the need to play him the 2nd most minutes on the team... he's getting 30 a night.


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## jbulls (Aug 31, 2005)

kukoc4ever said:


> Crawford is making 6.48 million this year. I think if you take a look around the NBA and look at the players that make between 6-8 mil a year you'll find that Crawfrod is fairly paid.
> 
> Next season he makes 7.2... 7.9 after that... he'll be a fairly valued for his whole career, barring injury.
> 
> Even though he's not starting all the time for the Knicks, Brown still feels the need to play him the 2nd most minutes on the team... he's getting 30 a night.


Perhaps. Again, I like Jamal - but I think there are better and cheaper options for instant offense off the bench...Earl Boykins, Bonzi Wells, Bobby Jackson, Ricky Davis etc. Jamal seems like an MLE type player to me - and that's not meant as a criticism.


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## McBulls (Apr 28, 2005)

This is my first post after reading this site for the last couple of years. I'm no expert on basketball, but it is the only sport I follow regularly. 

I'm prompted to put my two cents in at the end of this thread because I'm really disturbed by the officiating in the NBA -- not just this game against New York, but many other games as well. It appears to me that :
1) established stars receive preferential treatment from officials (e.g., O'Neal's constant offensive fouls, phantom fouls on Nowitski)
2) Rookies are usually, but not always, treated unfairly.
3) The home team (this includes the Bulls) invariably seems to get the benefit of the doubt in close calls.
4) Sometimes it seems that officials deliberately change the flow of a game by picking on one team or one teams player (e.g. the persecution of Nocioni at the end of last season after complaints by Miami).

I think most people who have observed the games over time would reach the same conclusions.

The problem is that as fans begin to accept arbitrary unfairness by officials the sport will become discredited. Statistics are devalued. The entire sport becomes more like professional wrestling -- with outcomes pre-programmed to appeal to the audience. 

In conclusion, I may not be much of an expert on basketball, but I am not entertained by competitive sporting events (like ice scating) whose outcomes are stongly influenced by factors that are not part of the game rules. The NBA came close to losing a fan last night.


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## Qwst25 (Apr 24, 2004)

McBulls said:


> This is my first post after reading this site for the last couple of years. I'm no expert on basketball, but it is the only sport I follow regularly.
> 
> I'm prompted to put my two cents in at the end of this thread because I'm really disturbed by the officiating in the NBA -- not just this game against New York, but many other games as well. It appears to me that :
> 1) established stars receive preferential treatment from officials (e.g., O'Neal's constant offensive fouls, phantom fouls on Nowitski)
> ...


This is very much how I feel right now. I think it's going to take a couple more games for me to get this taste out of my mouth.


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

McBulls said:


> This is my first post after reading this site for the last couple of years. I'm no expert on basketball, but it is the only sport I follow regularly.
> 
> I'm prompted to put my two cents in at the end of this thread because I'm really disturbed by the officiating in the NBA -- not just this game against New York, but many other games as well. It appears to me that :
> 1) established stars receive preferential treatment from officials (e.g., O'Neal's constant offensive fouls, phantom fouls on Nowitski)
> ...


First, welcome to the board! This is a thought-provoking post, and I hope it gets the views it deserves despite being buried in a game thread.

I've observed games over time, and while I agree with some of your conclusions, I pretty strongly disagree with your overall premise. I don't see how officials are influencing the outcomes of games outside the parameters of the NBA rulebook. They may not be consistently impartial in applying the rules, and they may not interpret the letter of the rulebook flawlessly, but I sure don't see any refs just making things up as they go along.

I agree that at first glance the apparent caste system in the league is pretty off-putting. But I've come to the conclusion that the stars get the lion's share of the calls precisely because they're better than the guy who's covering them. Same with rookies -- yes, there are "hazing" style calls from time to time, but ready-to-play rooks like Elton Brand or LeBron James or Dwyane Wade sure seem to fare okay with the officials.

And when I look at how other major sports are officiated, like pro football and baseball, or (shudder) FIBA games, I feel even better about how NBA games are called. There is just as much star treatment, politicking, and blown calls in baseball and football. But errors of commission or omission are much more meaningful there than they are in basketball due to the smaller number of chances for a team to score. If an officiating error directly or indirectly leads to a touchdown or run being added or taken off the board, there's a good chance it's going to affect the outcome of the game. In basketball, though, there are many more scoring opportunities and much better odds the error comes out in the wash.

No officials anywhere in the world are as well-trained and frequently monitored as NBA refs. I wish I could remember the links, but there have been two lengthy "day in the life" profiles of refs in the past year or so. I think Insider did one, and maybe SI.com the other. The amount of scrutiny and prep these guys go through is staggering. They're all connected to the league office with laptops, with lots of exchanges of digital video and directives. After each game, the refs immediately review the tape and grade themselves on each individual call as well as calls they feel they miss. They file a report with the league, and these reports are reviewed by other refs in preparation for upcoming games they'll officiate involving one or both teams. Then the officiating office grades the tapes and keeps an updated rating of each official. Throw in an unobtrusive but effective replay rule regarding shots at the ends of quarters and shot clocks, and they're doing just about everything they can, in my book.

I would probably stop following the NBA if they went to what seems to be the FIBA mindset regarding officiating, which is to level the playing field and lessen the gap between the game's best and worst players. Watching Tim Duncan get slapped, hacked, kicked, beaten, keelhauled, and flayed at the Olympics without the refs doing a thing to stop it was an embarrassment. The NBA would definitely lose my fanship if it went that route.

But where my thoughts most significantly diverge from yours is last night's game. There is no way the refs cost the Bulls the game -- not even close. When you take nothing but jumpshots for an entire quarter (which is exactly what the Bulls did in the third), when you turn it over a lot, and when you play a very intense, hacking and slapping style of defense, foul disparities like last night's are going to happen from time-to-time. The Knicks were totally the aggressors, and we gave them lots of long rebounds and turnovers to run down our throats. 

Again, welcome to the board.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

there is something to remember when regarding the crew working that game , they were a young crew , and with young crews you get .

1. bad reffing .
2. unneeded techs.

it has been likened to prison when a newbie needs respect so he shows he's tough , i think young refs T up people for that reason at least on occasion , with the exception of steve javie you dont really see too much acrimony among the older refs towards anyone , they are willing to talk to anyone who acts respectful in their questioning of calls .

young refs dont seem to do that as much and it generally gets players and coaches to go after them more and cry about calls in a manner that really isn't smart ...which of course leads to more unneeded techs and a bad flow to the game in general.

we saw that in the knicks-bulls game , there was alot of whinning, moreso than you would expect from basically a 2 teams of guys who rarely whine and moan too much, the players generally leave it to the coaches.

i remember some time ago when i read the jordan rules phil jackson would sometimes base his decisions on the ref crew , his motto the higher the #s on the refs back(the young refs get the higher numbers usually) the more you foul, unless they call in a way that changes that plan, basically young ref= bad ref and it was something you can exploit.

i dont think skiles did a good job with the refs and larry brown did , the plan to shade marbury to the left was a diaster , he kept taking what they gave him and went straight to the hole with the same move drawing fouls on everyone, something i believe led tyson to foul out indirectly and keeping the knicks in the game because the bulls were playing much better , i thought they had a real chance to walk away with the game in the 1st half, but the knicks shooting free throws kept them in it, and eventually the bulls lost because the knicks went on a spurt which will any home team gets if they are in the game long enough...not helped by the fact that tyson fouled out midway thru the 4th and the bulls seemed to wear out in a high paced game playing on back to back nites.


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