# Deron Williams Agrees to Sign w/ Turkish Team for Duration of Lockout



## O2K (Nov 19, 2002)

> NBA star Deron Williams has agreed terms with Turkish club Besiktas in principle.
> 
> Williams will sign a contract with Besiktas that will allow him to return to NBA as soon as the lockout ends. Nevertheless it is the greatest summer transfer by a European club, so far.
> 
> ...


I wonder how this will shape the lockout and which other players do this type of thing.


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## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

Well, this is the biggest name to go to Europe/Asia in recent memory, and I wouldn't be surprised if this starts a trend of stars going overseas temporarily. I wonder if having some of their franchise players risking their bodies in another league would put a little more pressure on the owners this time around. In a related story, I really, really hope that this leads to the major sports channels carrying high-level European games during the lockout.


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## 29380 (Feb 23, 2009)

Bogg said:


> In a related story, I really, really hope that this leads to the major sports channels carrying high-level European games during the lockout.


ESPN will probably stream games on ESPN3 and NBATV will probably broadcast some since they usually do that anyway.


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## kbdullah (Jul 8, 2010)

I'm a bit surprised Deron would do this in a contract year. He could be risking injury.

If the players really wanted to do this successfully, they'd all have to decide to go to the same two or three teams so that it made it easier for the public to focus and you'd have a few marquee matchups that would catch everyone's eye. Never even heard of this Besiktas team before.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

He's getting $200 a month? I get more than that.


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## Hoodey (Jul 3, 2011)

Porn Player said:


> He's getting $200 a month? I get more than that.


I think they mean $200K per month.

This is a necessity for a lot of players, even rich ones. These guys get lines of credit before they're even drafted, and a lot of them have taken so many draws and have so many payments going out, even to their entourage, that they need a constant stream of cash. I remember before last season, I believe the $10M Eddy Curry was due to make was already accounted for by creditors. $10M!

So a lot of guys will be doing this. Don't be surprised.


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## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

Porn Player said:


> He's getting $200 a month? I get more than that.


I originally read his salary as $200 a month as well, and was very confused. They threw a period into the dollar amount instead of a comma, it should be $200,000 instead of $200.000. Took me five minutes of staring to realize that.


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## BobStackhouse42 (Oct 7, 2010)

Bogg said:


> I originally read his salary as $200 a month as well, and was very confused. They threw a period into the dollar amount instead of a comma, it should be $200,000 instead of $200.000. Took me five minutes of staring to realize that.


In Turkey (and the rest of Europe) the period is the correct punctuation in that spot, not the comma.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

BobStackhouse42 said:


> In Turkey (and the rest of Europe) the period is the correct punctuation in that spot, not the comma.


Turns out I live in Europe and have my entire life and you are wrong. 

The comma is the correct punctuation where I come from and every single place I have visited in Europe (at least 10 different countries).


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## BobStackhouse42 (Oct 7, 2010)

Porn Player said:


> Turns out I live in Europe and have my entire life and you are wrong.
> 
> The comma is the correct punctuation where I come from and every single place I have visited in Europe (at least 10 different countries).


I can't tell whether you're trolling my post or you actually think you're right. Hmmm... 

I guess I'll prove you wrong just to be safe. There's a list of countries that use the comma at the raddix point and the ones that use the period halfway down this page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decimal_mark


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## Brutus (Dec 15, 2009)

kbdullah said:


> I'm a bit surprised Deron would do this in a contract year. He could be risking injury.
> 
> If the players really wanted to do this successfully, they'd all have to decide to go to the same two or three teams so that it made it easier for the public to focus and you'd have a few marquee matchups that would catch everyone's eye. *Never even heard of this Besiktas team before*.


They have one of the best football(soccer) teams in turkey and have been for a while. Dont know how they are in basketball but they are based out of Istanbul so im guessing they are good and have a loaded owner.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

BobStackhouse42 said:


> I can't tell whether you're trolling my post or you actually think you're right. Hmmm...
> 
> I guess I'll prove you wrong just to be safe. There's a list of countries that use the comma at the raddix point and the ones that use the period halfway down this page:
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decimal_mark


These are my favourite kind of posts.

I live in Europe and have done my entire life and I have never seen a period used to seperate numbers unless they're denoting the raddix. By posting a wiki page you won't change what I have seen and encountered my entire life, it just shows me you'll believe any **** on the internet. In theory, you could be correct, in practice I am telling you that you're wrong.


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## Ben (Nov 7, 2006)

Yeah lol, I've lived in England all my life, and been to a couple other European countries too, never seen a period instead of a comma.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

Porn Player said:


> Turns out I live in Europe and have my entire life and you are wrong.
> 
> The comma is the correct punctuation where I come from and every single place I have visited in Europe (at least 10 different countries).


Traditionally the period was an English thing and its former colonies took up the habit. Turkey, Eastern and central Europe, and even France so far as I know (because Evil Quebecois do it) use the comma rather than the decimal point.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

ßen said:


> Yeah lol, I've lived in England all my life, and been to a couple other European countries too, never seen a period instead of a comma.


STFU, wiki has spoken.


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## O2K (Nov 19, 2002)

This period thing sounds great and all but don't hijack my thread please. I don't make many and when I do I get really excited. Thanks.


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## VCHighFly (May 7, 2004)

Porn Player said:


> These are my favourite kind of posts.
> 
> I live in Europe and have done my entire life and I have never seen a period used to seperate numbers unless they're denoting the raddix. By posting a wiki page you won't change what I have seen and encountered my entire life, it just shows me you'll believe any **** on the internet. In theory, you could be correct, in practice I am telling you that you're wrong.


I lived in Belgium for almost a year, Switzerland for almost 4 months, and in the south of France for about 6 weeks. All three places use the period and comma interchangeably depending on the situation. I've noticed the comma in place of a decimal point in many markets and on many dinner receipts. At the auto-dealership I bought my car from in Ste Etienne, the paperwork showed periods exclusively as thousands separators and commas where decimals would be in the U.S.

EDIT: For clarification, some stores do choose to use the English system even in francophone countries. The practice is not incorporated 100% across the board in any country I've been in thusfar.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

When I visited Italy (which I freely admit was more than 20 years ago) I had to get used to staring at receipts and seeing the period and comma inverted.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

I guess I only stumbled across those places (and I've been to all 3 numerous times) when the interchange was occuring and the comma was reigning supreme. 

I could see it maybe happening with legal paperwork (which would explain the car thing) but I never onced noticed a receipt or a market store that operated with a period instead of a comma.

EDIT- Been to Italy too, and within the last 5 years. Normal procedure there was the comma too. But like I said, I might have just missed it all or didn't go to exclusive enough places.


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## BobStackhouse42 (Oct 7, 2010)

Porn Player said:


> These are my favourite kind of posts.
> 
> I live in Europe and have done my entire life and I have never seen a period used to seperate numbers unless they're denoting the raddix. By posting a wiki page you won't change what I have seen and encountered my entire life, it just shows me you'll believe any **** on the internet. In theory, you could be correct, in practice I am telling you that you're wrong.


Why do you automatically assume that since I posted a webstie as proof since I can't walk into a store and show you because I'm not with you right now that I only know this from the internet? 

I dated a girl for two years who worked for the damned berliner sparkasse. I guarantee you that you are wrong... or at the very least uninformed.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

Porn Player said:


> I guess I only stumbled across those places (and I've been to all 3 numerous times) when the interchange was occuring and the comma was reigning supreme.
> 
> I could see it maybe happening with legal paperwork (which would explain the car thing) but I never onced noticed a receipt or a market store that operated with a period instead of a comma.
> 
> EDIT- Been to Italy too, and within the last 5 years. Normal procedure there was the comma too. But like I said, I might have just missed it all or didn't go to exclusive enough places.


As far as I know the official guidelines are that the comma and period are deprecated (because everyone has different habits, in Spain they used to use apostrophes as separators) and you're supposed to use a space as a thousands separator. 

Not that I pay any attention, I'm American and the rest of you have to adjust to us. It's why we laugh at you pantywaist English for abandoning your own measurements. We kept them, so you guys could have too, because ultimately we're all that matters. :bsmile:


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## Ben (Nov 7, 2006)

E.H. Munro said:


> Not that I pay any attention, I'm American and the rest of you have to adjust to us. It's why we laugh at you pantywaist English for abandoning your own measurements. We kept them, so you guys could have too, because ultimately we're all that matters. :bsmile:


Is that why you speak English


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

BobStackhouse42 said:


> Why do you automatically assume that since I posted a webstie as proof since I can't walk into a store and show you because I'm not with you right now that I only know this from the internet?
> 
> I dated a girl for two years who worked for the damned berliner sparkasse. I guarantee you that you are wrong... or at the very least uninformed.


I had a bank account with Sparkasse when I lived in Germany. They used commas. Keep guarenteeing me whatever you like, I'll take personal experience over your knowledge (of something you have clearly never experienced).


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## VCHighFly (May 7, 2004)

Getting back to the original point of the thread, I don't know if Prokhorov has any interest in this Turkish club, but this smells like some sort of business move on his part to me.


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## BobStackhouse42 (Oct 7, 2010)

Porn Player said:


> I had a bank account with Sparkasse when I lived in Germany. They used commas. Keep guarenteeing me whatever you like, I'll take personal experience over your knowledge (of something you have clearly never experienced).


Seems to silly to belabor this point. You have firsthand experience. I have firsthand experience to the contrary. The argument will never be settled.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

I win.


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## kbdullah (Jul 8, 2010)

We should also point out that Deron is playing for 200k per month or roughly 2.5 M per year so he's not exactly achieving a high bargaining position. He still has a lot to gain monetarily if the NBA resumes.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

Porn Player said:


> I lose.


Good of you to admit it.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

kbdullah said:


> We should also point out that Deron is playing for 200k per month or roughly 2.5 M per year so he's not exactly achieving a high bargaining position. He still has a lot to gain monetarily if the NBA resumes.


Right, but the NBA has a lot more to lose if their star players are in Europe risking injury. Because ultimately they're the product.


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## BobStackhouse42 (Oct 7, 2010)

E.H. Munro said:


> Right, but *the NBA *has a lot more to lose if their star players are in Europe risking injury. Because ultimately they're the product.


READ: The Owners


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

This isn't going to be a trend because there's not enough money for everyone to run over there

That's why you see it happening early


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## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

Dre said:


> This isn't going to be a trend because there's not enough money for everyone to run over there
> 
> That's why you see it happening early


No, but if the going rate for Deron Williams is 200K a month there's enough money to draw over enough players to make the owners nervous. It's not going to end the lockout, but it's a little more incentive to get it over with.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

If just the superstars go over there, then so will the TV rights. You don't think ESPN would break it's neck to show the superstars of the NBA playing in a league somewhere?

Is Deron Williams the Brandon Jennings of the NBA? Speaking of which, I'm suprised Brandon Jennings isn't doing this.

Anyways. I think this is really interesting.

This is the same league AI is playing in, right?


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## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

Wow, I never thought a big name player would head overseas like that.


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

The money seems pretty slender for the risk. I am seeing it as in the 'low seven figures' in other sources. Essentially this is pocket change for a Max player. Kobe is making 2 million per month over the entire year, and four million a month if you only mean what he gets paid during the season. We're talking about money that Brian Scalabrine lost in his couch really. Hell I would guess that this is the sort of money that Chris Paul makes makes from the Jordan Brand or stuff like that.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

The Nets are the biggest losers in this, though Deron should also worry about getting injured. Good for Turkey, I guess Deron gets to play with Iverson no?



> The money seems pretty slender for the risk. I am seeing it as in the 'low seven figures' in other sources. Essentially this is pocket change for a Max player. Kobe is making 2 million per month over the entire year, and four million a month if you only mean what he gets paid during the season. We're talking about money that Brian Scalabrine lost in his couch really. Hell I would guess that this is the sort of money that Chris Paul makes makes from the Jordan Brand or stuff like that.


Well its not like the guy is hurting financially, think of the experience, getting to see another culture. His family probably wants it too, and he stays in shape.


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## M.V.W. (Apr 2, 2011)

Bogg said:


> No, but if the going rate for Deron Williams is 200K a month there's enough money to draw over enough players to make the owners nervous. *It's not going to end the lockout, but it's a little more incentive to get it over with.*


This. Especially if more big names do likewise.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

> Besiktas of Turkey coach Ergin Ataman tells Y! Sports he wants to set up a meeting with Kobe Bryant and his agent next week in the States.


 - Woj


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## O2K (Nov 19, 2002)

It was be pretty funny if there were super teams forming in europe and how it would affect the free agency in the future.


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

E.H. Munro said:


> Not that I pay any attention, I'm American and the rest of you have to adjust to us. It's why we laugh at you pantywaist English for abandoning your own measurements. We kept them, so you guys could have too, because ultimately we're all that matters. :bsmile:


I'll have to bump this the next time you talk about your "favourite" something or other...


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

Sorry, mate, born to a Scottish mother and taught to read from books written in the Queen's English. I've been spelling them as I read them from childhood. Drove my teachers bonkers.


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## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

Diable said:


> The money seems pretty slender for the risk. I am seeing it as in the 'low seven figures' in other sources. Essentially this is pocket change for a Max player.


i think one reason the money is so small is because of the temporary nature of it. he's getting 200k a month and is gone as soon as the lockout is over. in some sort of legitimate longterm deal, i have to think he'd be making a lot more.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

He also gets a driver, a guard and I think accommodation. Guy's basically taking a glorified vacation.


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## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

This is basically a summer league for the players. The Nets should be happy that he'll be working on his game and staying in shape.


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## Vuchato (Jan 14, 2006)

VCHighFly said:


> Getting back to the original point of the thread, I don't know if Prokhorov has any interest in this Turkish club, but this smells like some sort of business move on his part to me.


I was thinking Prokhorov could've been involved in this, but for a different reason. I remember reading that he promised Deron that he'd make him the first international NBA superstar or something, and thought this could be part of it.

I don't know much about European basketball, but from what I do know this seems like a weird choice of a team to go to. Though I don't know the roster or coach


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Heh Prokhorov's interests are in Brooklyn, how is he going to support a move to a club in Turkey where his franchise player could get injured? Makes no damn sense.


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## Vuchato (Jan 14, 2006)

Marketing mainly. Though I just read that the Nets didn't know about the offer, so that theory's gone. Wish he would've signed with the same team Bojan is on though, its in the same league.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

If some super teams start getting formed over there, wonder if we'll get the games on ESPN?

Should be good for the game to be honest to have these stars experiencing basketball in another country, in a different system, with different rules.

Would love to see more stars set up this kind of deal. Who knows--if you end up liking it enough, it gives you an option at the end of your career for some extra money.


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## MarionBarberThe4th (Jul 7, 2005)

support this and hope Kobe and others join him. Give the owners something to think about

I hope lebron signs a 1 year deal w/ the cowboys


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

MarionBarberThe4th said:


> support this and hope Kobe and others join him. Give the owners something to think about
> 
> *I hope lebron signs a 1 year deal w/ the cowboys*


Lol that won't happen. The NFL is no joke.


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## MarionBarberThe4th (Jul 7, 2005)

He could catch jump balls in the end Zone and still be beastly. Judging by his reaction to getting fouled I don't think he wants any part of getting tackled


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

Bogg said:


> No, but if the going rate for Deron Williams is 200K a month there's enough money to draw over enough players to make the owners nervous. It's not going to end the lockout, but it's a little more incentive to get it over with.


Not really. I mean it doesn't help but the Owners are too deadset this time around to let that European money matter.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Supposedly Zaza is also signing with Besiktas


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## MarionBarberThe4th (Jul 7, 2005)

This would be a nice whetting of the Europeans appetite for their own NBA team and stars. A taste of great NBA talent to hold them over for a few years


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

I just can not make sense of the money aspect of this. At most this could be interpreted as 2.4 million per year or for the entire season. That is a little bit more than Iverson got from the same team last year. If they only mean 200K while he is actually over there then it is around a million bucks. Either way it seems like Deron should be getting a great deal more before he would do something like this with the potential risks involved.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

It's also possible he's doing this as a way to trap the owners into legal problems with the lockout itself. Like if they think that Stern would somehow stop this from going down...

It's also basically a paid vacation


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

Diable said:


> I just can not make sense of the money aspect of this. At most this could be interpreted as 2.4 million per year or for the entire season. That is a little bit more than Iverson got from the same team last year. If they only mean 200K while he is actually over there then it is around a million bucks. Either way it seems like Deron should be getting a great deal more before he would do something like this with the potential risks involved.


Maybe he actually likes playing basketball

And there's not a lot of money over there, as I've said like 5 times in the past week.

A lot of agents are skeptical of this though, and one laughed when they heard the owner of Pestikas talking about "oh, we'll call Kobe too" like he's just Steinbrenner all over again.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

Diable said:


> The money seems pretty slender for the risk. I am seeing it as in the 'low seven figures' in other sources. Essentially this is pocket change for a Max player. Kobe is making 2 million per month over the entire year, and four million a month if you only mean what he gets paid during the season. We're talking about money that Brian Scalabrine lost in his couch really. Hell I would guess that this is the sort of money that Chris Paul makes makes from the Jordan Brand or stuff like that.


Lol, how come no one discusses injury risk when these guys are playing at the Rucker? All these guys will hoop regardless.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

Diable said:


> I just can not make sense of the money aspect of this. At most this could be interpreted as 2.4 million per year or for the entire season. That is a little bit more than Iverson got from the same team last year. If they only mean 200K while he is actually over there then it is around a million bucks. Either way it seems like Deron should be getting a great deal more before he would do something like this with the potential risks involved.


What are the risks involved that he wouldn't experience in a private gym with 9 other guys playing unorganized ball? I would say you're the illogical one.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Jamel Irief said:


> What are the risks involved that he wouldn't experience in a private gym with 9 other guys playing unorganized ball? I would say you're the illogical one.


In fact it's probably safer for him to be playing with other professionals. Than just nine random guys going half speed.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

I think all the rookies need to do this. Kandi did it in 98.


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

The best players in Europe make around 4 or 5 million dollars. If I was Deron Williams there is no chance I would do this for half what Sarunas Jasikevicius makes.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

But then we hate on guys who don't live and breath basketball because it's all about the business

Which one is it


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Diable said:


> The best players in Europe make around 4 or 5 million dollars. If I was Deron Williams there is no chance I would do this for half what Sarunas Jasikevicius makes.


Yeah but no one is going to sign a Deron Williams for that amount without the guarantee that he'll play the full season. He's getting money with the contingency that as soon as the NBA starts up he's out of there.

Will be interesting to see if Kobe goes and for how much. 

I'm surprised there's not one of those Quatar bastard shieks out there willing to pay for a season of NBA basketball on some man made island in the middle of an ocean of diamonds.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Dre said:


> But then we hate on guys who don't live and breath basketball because it's all about the business
> 
> Which one is it


Oh. And we lock them out from playing basketball because we say they are overpaid. While out of the same mouth criticizing them when they sign for less than market value.


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## ChosenFEW (Jun 23, 2005)

ßen said:


> Is that why you speak English


actually no one in america speaks old english. we speak American over here buddy


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

Diable said:


> The best players in Europe make around 4 or 5 million dollars. If I was Deron Williams there is no chance I would do this for half what Sarunas Jasikevicius makes.


Are you backing off the injury risk stuff? I don't get what your beef is here, that deron Williams will make 200k a month more than most NBA stars while getting a better workout? Is it because he has to travel?

No team is signing him for 5 mil without a buyout clause. That's bad business.


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## Dee-Zy (Jan 12, 2006)

E.H. Munro said:


> Traditionally the period was an English thing and its former colonies took up the habit. Turkey, Eastern and central Europe, and even France so far as I know (because Evil Quebecois do it) use the comma rather than the decimal point.


I lived in Quebec for 27 years and I can tell you that you are wrong. None of us have used the period to separate the zeros.

We do use the comma at times for indicating the decimals but that is very rare.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

I lived in Compton for 17,8 years and I can you're wrong and everyone in Quebec and Europe uses a comma. Because I said so.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

Dee-Zy said:


> I lived in Quebec for 27 years and I can tell you that you are wrong. None of us have used the period to separate the zeros.
> 
> We do use the comma at times for indicating the decimals but that is very rare.


When I was in Quebec City 30 years ago all the receipts used the comma as the decimal marker. Which was the first time I'd ever seen it (being a sheltered American and all who'd never been further into Canuckia than New Brunswick or Montreal).


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## kbdullah (Jul 8, 2010)

Diable said:


> The best players in Europe make around 4 or 5 million dollars. If I was Deron Williams there is no chance I would do this for half what Sarunas Jasikevicius makes.


So I'm reading that the overall deal is worth $~5 Million. He gets a car and housing provide and some personal assistants.



> Reports have pegged Williams’s salary between $200,000 and $350,000 a month, or $2 million to $3.5 million for the 10-month Turkish league season. Raznatovic said that Williams, 27, would get between $1 million and $5 million, plus a car, housing and the tax breaks associated with playing overseas. He will also be provided with a security guard, driver and personal assistant, all of them available 24 hours a day. Ataman later told SI.com that Williams’s deal would be paid for by a sponsor.


http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/08/sports/basketball/deron-williams-reaches-deal-to-play-in-turkey.html?_r=1


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## eddymac (Jun 23, 2005)

i dont want him going overseas too much risk in my opinion we have him invested to the nets.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Darius Songalia just signed a 1.5mill/1yr deal with Galatasray. Turkey is where's it at now.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

Deron also thinks players might stay over there long-term anyways if the owners get their way. This could get crazy.


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## Pump Bacon (Dec 11, 2010)

Players are going to play basketball some way or another whether its pickup games at a gym, TEAM USA, or overseas. Especially PG's since they really need to sustain their rhythm and feel of the game. Might as well get paid while doing it.

However there's not enough roster spots or money in international basketball to make this a serious concern for the future of NBA stars especially considering the culture shock as well.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

This type of things helps those leagues a ton though. If they get enough superstars so that ESPN starts televising their games over here, they're going to get a ton of advertising bucks from companies.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Jamel Irief said:


> What are the risks involved that he wouldn't experience in a private gym with 9 other guys playing unorganized ball? I would say you're the illogical one.


I don't know Jamal. Why does he have a personal body guard?


And maybe you've never played basketball before (lets be honest, you've never even kissed a girl), but pick up ball isn't the same level of intensity as pro ball.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Sir Patchwork said:


> Deron also thinks players might stay over there long-term anyways if the owners get their way. This could get crazy.


****ty fringe players may. Deron himself is full of **** and would never stay over there and leave 11 mil on the table every year just to spite the owners.


Much adoo about nothing.


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## goodfoot (Feb 28, 2009)

R-Star said:


> ****ty fringe players may. Deron himself is full of **** and would never stay over there and leave 11 mil on the table every year just to spite the owners.
> 
> 
> Much adoo about nothing.


Not if they cut max contracts way down. The owners said if they wound up locking out they would try for a $45 mil hard cap. Max contracts would have to be 10-12 million.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

goodfoot said:


> Not if they cut max contracts way down. The owners said if they wound up locking out they would try for a $45 mil hard cap. Max contracts would have to be 10-12 million.


Where did owners say this? Because I'll guarantee it is not the open statement of the owners. They would drop it lower than the NHL hard cap? There is 0 chance of that happening.


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## MarionBarberThe4th (Jul 7, 2005)

Perhaps it was in their actual offers...?


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

MarionBarberThe4th said:


> Perhaps it was in their actual offers **** head?


Want to show me? No? 

Nice attempt at a tough guy act.


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## MarionBarberThe4th (Jul 7, 2005)

$340M reported in losses. 30 teams would need at least $10M back to break even. Cap max brought down from $58M to $48M.

Its science


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

MarionBarberThe4th said:


> $340M reported in losses. 30 teams would need at least $10M back to break even. Cap max brought down from $58M to $48M.
> 
> Its science


You're ****ing kidding me right?


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## MarionBarberThe4th (Jul 7, 2005)

Um, good rebuttal. Im going to go stand over here


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

MarionBarberThe4th said:


> Um, good rebuttal. Im going to go stand over here


A reported 340 million? Reported or confirmed? Each team lost equally right? Because cutting 10 mil from each team would only make sense if everyone lost equally. And that's just the start on how someone could tear apart you ridiculous "facts" you posted.

Next time maybe learn not to come back with a smartass reply so you don't get torn apart in the future.


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## MarionBarberThe4th (Jul 7, 2005)

Torn apart? lol.

Have you been paying any attention at all to this stuff b/c right now you are just poorly trolling



> Forbes' data is inaccurate; Forbes does not have the financial data for our teams and the magazine's estimates are wrong and unreliable. Our losses for 2009-10 were -$340 million.


http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/2011-07-06-NBA-on-defensive-early-in-lockout_n.htm


Damn dude, this is common knowledge


Sources said the owners' latest proposal, however, does still call for immediate rollbacks of 15 percent, 20 percent or 25 percent to current contracts depending on salary levels, as part of the league's oft-stated desire to reduce payroll by roughly $800 million leaguewide on an annual basis.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=6530352



Just pay attention is all we ask.


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## MarionBarberThe4th (Jul 7, 2005)

Someone put me back together.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Just like Exxon Mobil and their peers were losing billions and we had to sky rocket the price of oil. At least thats what they told everyone, until they had record earning in the billions. But hey, they said it, so it must be true right?

Forbes is wrong, but the owner friendly source who said before a lockout that they were losing millions is right? 

Weird they'd leak that information right before lockout negotiations fell apart. I can't see why anyone would want to do that.....

But hey, a team like the Lakers or Heat would love to hear "Cut the salaries of your superstars, the Bobcats are losing money." You do understand that putting a quality product on the floor is what makes the Lakers profitable correct? But cutting the most profitable teams off at the knees makes sense so that the Pacers can lose less.


Pretty strange that the NBA is losing record amounts of money (reportedly according to a source who works for the owners....) even though TV ratings are the highest they've been in a long time.



You want me to pay attention? I'd like you to use common sense.


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## MarionBarberThe4th (Jul 7, 2005)

goodfoot said:


> Not if they cut max contracts way down. The owners said if they wound up locking out they would try for a $45 mil hard cap. Max contracts would have to be 10-12 million.





R-Star said:


> Where did owners say this? Because I'll guarantee it is not the open statement of the owners. They would drop it lower than the NHL hard cap? There is 0 chance of that happening.


You are all over the place.

The owners are claiming losses of $340M. Thus giving them justification to ask for the moon in negotiations. Will they get all of it, probably not. And that is why this thing is going to be so messy.


I have already stated my belief that a season could be saved w/ increasing revenue sharing, a fair drop in the cap lets say $10M, ads on the jerseys, dropping the WNBA, and the Euro division which takes over the lame franchises holding everything back.

But Im not a owner, Im a fan. They dont think like us. To them its easiest to starve the players out and just lower their salaries as much as possible. Without the owners making any of the sacrifices. They were prepared to do that b/c the money lost on the season they would make on the back end by getting the players to cave and on a 10 year deal to boot. Keeping them out of the next lucrative TV deal. 

A dozen more Deron Williams' playing over seas could help the players credibility when they say that they wont fold


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## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

R-Star said:


> ****ty fringe players may. Deron himself is full of **** and would never stay over there and leave 11 mil on the table every year just to spite the owners.
> 
> 
> Much adoo about nothing.


Top-level players like Deron won't start staying overseas unless a billionaire owner starts throwing around money because he can, but even then you're looking one or two guys, max. However, if the owners get significant concessions from the players on mid-level salaries(not the exception, just that middle 50% of salaries) then some top-level Euro clubs could become players for a select few good journeymen every year. Nothing that's going to hamstring the league, but it may hurt a team or two every summer.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Bogg said:


> Top-level players like Deron won't start staying overseas unless a billionaire owner starts throwing around money because he can, but even then you're looking one or two guys, max. However, if the owners get significant concessions from the players on mid-level salaries(not the exception, just that middle 50% of salaries) then some top-level Euro clubs could become players for a select few good journeymen every year. Nothing that's going to hamstring the league, but it may hurt a team or two every summer.


Exactly how I see it.


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## goodfoot (Feb 28, 2009)

R-Star said:


> Where did owners say this? Because I'll guarantee it is not the open statement of the owners. They would drop it lower than the NHL hard cap? There is 0 chance of that happening.


http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursn...onroe-it-only-gets-harder-for-owners-players/


This appears to be the source of what I was quoting, but I first heard of it on ESPN.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

goodfoot said:


> http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursn...onroe-it-only-gets-harder-for-owners-players/
> 
> 
> This appears to be the source of what I was quoting, but I first heard of it on ESPN.


All it says is "according to guys who know whats in the know" 

Sorry. I don't take that as a credible source.


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## Pump Bacon (Dec 11, 2010)

If that source is legit then I think its just the typical lowball offer that negotiations start off with. However there are several more NHL players on a team compared to the NBA so it'd makes some sense why the cap would be lower.


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## goodfoot (Feb 28, 2009)

R-Star said:


> All it says is "according to guys who know whats in the know"
> 
> Sorry. I don't take that as a credible source.


I don't think you are going to see players or owners going on record giving specific numbers anyway. Didn't someone get fined for that earlier? Anyway, it's probably a lowball offer like Bacon said.


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## Tragedy (Dec 9, 2002)

MarionBarberThe4th said:


> $340M reported in losses. 30 teams would need at least $10M back to break even. Cap max brought down from $58M to $48M.
> 
> Its science


No, it really isn't

Not when there's accounting tricks to make it look like 340 million in losses.

That's some projected loss crap when you count the interest when you purchase a team across the life of ownership or something tricky like that.

They cook their books as much as they can without it being illegal and getting into hot water with capitol hill, then cry broke.

It's SOME teams losing money, but the reality is, some areas just can't support professional teams. I don't care how big a fan you are of the Kings or the Grizzlies, Bobcats or whoever else. You're area can't support the team - they should leave or contract.

Revenue sharing is big. Show me that the billionaires are willing to help each other, and that will go a long way towards showing they're serious about "fixing" the system.

I think slight tweaks here and there to help owners get out of bad contracts are alright. But you give them that, and they'll abuse it: see the NFL.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

R-Star said:


> I don't know Jamal. Why does he have a personal body guard?
> 
> 
> And maybe you've never played basketball before (lets be honest, you've never even kissed a girl), but pick up ball isn't the same level of intensity as pro ball.


I ****ing suck.

We should rename this site rstar.net, he's the only one with posts worth reading.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Jamel Irief said:


> I ****ing suck.
> 
> We should rename this site rstar.net, he's the only one with posts worth reading.


Your opinions are often asinine, yes.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

R-Star said:


> Your opinions are often asinine, yes.


Whose aren't compared to yours?


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

> According to NTV Spor, Besiktas was initially prepared to offer Bryant a monthly salary of $500,000. But Bryant, according to the report, is seeking a monthly salary of $1 million to join Williams. Sources told ESPN The Magazine's Chris Broussard earlier this month that Williams' overall deal with Besiktas is worth $5 million.
> 
> Via Marc Stein/ESPN.com


...


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

> Burke says players such as Williams are in for eye-opening experiences.
> 
> "You have to live it to understand it," he said.
> 
> ...


http://www.orlandosentinel.com/spor...-pat-burke-0718-20110717,0,770132,full.column


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## 29380 (Feb 23, 2009)

They retired his number.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Nice gesture


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

Definitely a cool gesture.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

He must have played awesome for them. I didn't follow one game.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Didn't he score 50 points in one of the games?


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