# OT: Morrison an NBA star? "You have got to be kidding!"



## meru (Jul 2, 2003)

From Skip Bayless of ESPN.com:

Some sample pieces of red meat for Morrison-lovers:



> I don't know what made me cringe more: Having to watch those two geeks singing that takeoff of the "Gilligan's Island" theme in that over-and-over Applebee's commercial -- or hearing analyst upon analyst invoke the name of Larry Bird when gushing about Morrison.
> 
> Poor Adam. He'll never be able to live up to this buildup. He'll have a hard enough time becoming the Next Peja, let alone the Next Bird.


and



> Larry Bird had as pure a shooting stroke of any man who ever bounced a basketball. Morrison is a good shooter, not a great one.
> 
> Bird, at 6-foot-9, had a virtually unblockable feet-on-the-floor, behind-the-head set shot that he could create with extraordinary step-back foot-and-hand quickness. Morrison, at a long-armed 6-8, shoots a jump shot. But it can be bothered by a long-armed defender because Morrison isn't exceptionally quick off the dribble and doesn't get especially high off the floor.
> 
> Though Bird wasn't a weight lifter, he had a big-boned stature and a nose for the ball -- a hard nose -- that made him one of the greatest below-the-rim rebounders (10.0 per game in his NBA career) this side of Dennis Rodman. Morrison's veins pop from weight-room dedication, but he doesn't play particularly strong and isn't much of a rebounder (5.5 rebounds per game).


Sounds right to me. But this is the capper:



> If Redick lands in the right spot, he'll turn out to be the more valuable pro because Redick isn't as all-around good as Morrison. That's right, Redick won't be expected to carry the Bobcats or the Knicks back to the Promised Land, as Morrison might be. Redick's role will be to spot up and shoot weakside 3-pointers -- which Redick already can do as well as any NBA specialist.
> 
> Redick is a much better shooter than Morrison -- and if the Miami Heat had Redick right now, Detroit would be in trouble. Heck, if LeBron's Cleveland Cavaliers had him, Detroit would be saying, "Uh-oh."
> 
> But if Miami or Cleveland had rookie "superstar" Morrison, neither would be significantly better.


Say "no" to the 'stache. But the most damning criticism of all:



> Would he be co-player of the year if LeBron or Carmelo were still in college? Dwight Howard? *Sebastian Telfair*? I could go on. But I leave that to Mr. Vitale.


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## sa1177 (Feb 18, 2005)

Interesting for sure but there is really nothing here that we haven't hashed and re-hashed already. 

I do agree with their take on Redick though...if he lands with the right team I think he could be a deadly weapon from the outside.


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## Talkhard (May 13, 2003)

I thought this was telling . . .



> But Vitale and other college-loving analysts have gone madder than March when they go gaga over Morrison's NBA potential.


and this . . .



> But for the record, I've talked to a couple of NBA general managers who think Morrison could be better than I think.


In other words, Bayless' opinion of Morrison is not shared by most analysts.


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## Stepping Razor (Apr 24, 2004)

Skip Bayless is the Bay Area's John Canzano. That guy just constantly talks out his ***. 

I don't know whether or not Morrison will turn out to be a great pro; Skip Bayless *definitely* doesn't know whether or not Morrison will turn out to be a great pro.

Stepping Razor


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

He's right about that Applebee's ad, though... it's on WAY TOO MUCH.

Ed O.


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## Stepping Razor (Apr 24, 2004)

Ed O said:


> He's right about that Applebee's ad, though... it's on WAY TOO MUCH.
> 
> Ed O.


Word.

Although it still hasn't reached the heights of ridiculousness of the NCAA tourney about 6-8 years ago when they launched the short-lived Amigo SUV, which had a commercial that played during every single timeout of all 63 games. I still have that goddamn "Amigo, Amigo..." jingle stuck in my head...

That was also the year of the Stanford-era Madsen gorilla celebration, a precursor to the more heralded Laker-era Madsen dance. Which made it a good tourney for me.

Except for the friggin Amigo.

Stepping Razor


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## ThatBlazerGuy (May 1, 2003)

I pretty much agree with him. Morrison is not gonna be a savier, and has a good chance to burn out due to lofty expectations of him being the next "Great White Hope". Look at what happened to KVH. BTW, does anyone actually expect Morrison to surpass Keiths 19.7ppg, 6.6rpg, 1.7apg, 1spg rookie season? Personally, I dont see him being that good, especially as a rook.


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## ProudBFan (Apr 29, 2003)

Bayless isn't saying Morrison won't be a great pro. He's saying he may not be able to live up to the hype.

But in this day and age, who does?

Since we're lottery-bound anyway, I want Morrison. He is the best player (which even Skippy here does not refute).

PBF


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

Skip Bayless isn't someone who can be taken seriously. He's mostly saying things to be opposite of what other experts say. He'll often defend points of view that are illogical, and often times stupid BECAUSE it's against what he's argunig.

This is almost a seal of approval.


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## BlazerCaravan (Aug 12, 2004)

I do have a hard time with him comparing Bird's NBA stats to Morrison's career college rebounding stats (with a 35-second shot clock and games rarely above 85 points). Rebounding is largely based on how many shots are chucked up per game.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

I admit I fell for this comparison at the start, but no where has anyone said he'll be the next larry bird, or that his game is exactly like larry bird or that he'll be as good as him.

It's that his game *resembles* larry bird. no where does anyone think he'll be the next bird. his shot resembles bird, and realistically thats it.

But he's a tall(ish) white guy who's pretty clutch. So obviously, the unavoidable poison the well comparisons to bird get made.

It's like how Gay is compared to Pippen. It's a little strange that no one seems to have a problem with that comparison being a little far-fetched.


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## ThatBlazerGuy (May 1, 2003)

Both comparisons are very off base. First off, Bird was one of the most versatile players ever. He got 25+ points, 10+ rebounds and 5+ assists over his entire career while shooting 50%. Adam is nothing like Larry, the only comparison is that both are white, slow, can shoot and work hard. Adam is much more of a Rip Hamilton than a Larry Legend. 

Gay is not anything like Pippen either. Yes, both are versatile, but Pippen was much further his sophmore year than Gay is. Gay is more of a Gerald Wallace with a larger pool of untapped potential.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

ThatBlazerGuy said:


> Both comparisons are very off base. First off, Bird was one of the most versatile players ever. He got 25+ points, 10+ rebounds and 5+ assists over his entire career while shooting 50%. Adam is nothing like Larry, the only comparison is that both are white, slow, can shoot and work hard. Adam is much more of a Rip Hamilton than a Larry Legend.
> 
> Gay is not anything like Pippen either. Yes, both are versatile, but Pippen was much further his sophmore year than Gay is. Gay is more of a Gerald Wallace with a larger pool of untapped potential.


bingo.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Skip Bayless is an idiot and he has been for years...

I can't stand reading through his junk...

He's a gimmick writer who's sole purpose is to stir up controversy....I'd like to find another person who doesn't think Adam's game translate's well in the NBA...


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## BlazerWookie (Mar 20, 2006)

zagsfan20 said:


> Skip Bayless is an idiot and he has been for years...
> 
> I can't stand reading through his junk...
> 
> He's a gimmick writer who's sole purpose is to stir up controversy....I'd like to find another person who doesn't think Adam's game translate's well in the NBA...


Bayless = Canzano


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## Yega1979 (Mar 22, 2003)

Ed O said:


> He's right about that Applebee's ad, though... it's on WAY TOO MUCH.
> 
> Ed O.


The commercial I hate is that one for Friday's, "that's the kung pow sauce for my shrimp". That commercial is so stupid.


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## BlazerWookie (Mar 20, 2006)

Yega1979 said:


> The commercial I hate is that one for Friday's, "that's the kung pow sauce for my shrimp". That commercial is so stupid.


It was funny the first five or six dozen times I saw it...


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## wastro (Dec 19, 2004)

Ed O said:


> He's right about that Applebee's ad, though... it's on WAY TOO MUCH.
> 
> Ed O.


We finally agree on something!


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## riehldeal (May 11, 2003)

keep it comin Skip, Ammo loves to prove doubters wrong time and time again


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

> Morrison, on the other hand, is a nearly complete offensive player. At 6-foot-8, he stands four inches taller and can create his own shot at any spot on the floor. He has a high release that is almost impossible to block, can post people up and either pivot toward the hoop or hit fall-away jumpers. At the college level, he can consistently slash to the hole and either finish with a dunk or utilize his terrific mid-range game.





> *"Adam Morrison is a 20-point-a-game scorer in the NBA for a long, long time," one Western scout said. "The son of a ***** can score on anyone."*





> "He's like (Larry) Bird. He just finds a way to get the ball in the basket," a Southwest Division scout added.





> "I've spent the last four months on the road, at least six games a week. If (Morrison) isn't the MVP, then they must be hiding the guy who is better," a Western scout said. "Morrison can do 10 things Redick couldn't dream of."





> When it comes to Redick vs. Morrison, I have never even understood the question.


link


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## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

Hap said:


> It's like how Gay is compared to Pippen. It's a little strange that no one seems to have a problem with that comparison being a little far-fetched.


i rarely hear anyone compare gay to pippen. thanks to guys like dick vitale, i hear about adam morrison being the next bird a lot more.

skip bayliss is a moron, but even he has to be right sometimes. this is one of those times even though his article didn't really say much except he didn't think morrison would end up being great. that's not really a hard prediction to make about any player.


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

rocketeer said:


> skip bayliss is a moron, but even he has to be right sometimes. this is one of those times even though his article didn't really say much except he didn't think morrison would end up being great. that's not really a hard prediction to make about any player.


I find Skip to be smarter then the average pot-stirrer, but at the end of the day he's just another media guy with a deadline. 

I agree with you though that his main point _he doesn't feel Adam will be great_ is no big reach. Few players are great, and Adam has obvious deficiencies in his game that make greatness a long shot. Heck even Zagfan's link notes that Adam is not much of a defender, and last time I checked that was half of the game. 

STOMP


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Can anyone name an NBA star who's only known for his defense?.....anybody?


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## SLAM (Jan 1, 2003)

zagsfan20 said:


> Can anyone name an NBA star who's only known for his defense?.....anybody?



Ben Wallace.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

SLAM said:


> Ben Wallace.


his rebounding abilities have a little bit to do with his stardom...


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## cpt.napalm (Feb 23, 2005)

zagsfan20 said:


> Can anyone name an NBA star who's only known for his defense?.....anybody?


Bruce Bowen


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## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

The Gay-Pippen comparision is as stupid as the Morrison-Bird comparison. I think Gay will end up being the better player IF he has the work ethic. Morrison will be a nice complimentary player for some lucky team, but I wouldn't expect him to be a savior. Put him with a team that has defensive pieces in place, an offensive system that will allow him to run off screens and shoot and he'll flourish


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## crandc (Sep 15, 2004)

But the Sporting News compared Reddick & Morrison. They were critical of both, especially on defense, but said that Morrison would probably be a regular 15 ppg scorer while they saw Reddick as essentially a bench player. And that a top pick should not be a 6th man.
Unfortunately there does not seem to be a Bird, or a Jordan, O'Neal, Duncan, James or even Iverson in this year's draft. But we could be surprised. Doesn't every draft class seem to have someone who was not hyped but turns out to be very good?


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

crandc said:


> But the Sporting News compared Reddick & Morrison. They were critical of both, especially on defense, but said that Morrison would probably be a regular 15 ppg scorer while they saw Reddick as essentially a bench player. And that a top pick should not be a 6th man.
> Unfortunately there does not seem to be a Bird, or a Jordan, O'Neal, Duncan, James or even Iverson in this year's draft. But we could be surprised. Doesn't every draft class seem to have someone who was not hyped but turns out to be very good?


Every draft has someone who's hyped to be good and isn't, isn't hyped to be good and is, and an unknown who turned out to be a lot better than previously thought.

Throw into that mix the typical european/foreign love fest that certain players get (how many years are we going to hear about Splitter?) and this is wrapping up to be your average draft.


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## Utherhimo (Feb 20, 2005)

yup there are always gems


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

zagsfan20 said:


> Can anyone name an NBA star who's only known for his defense?.....anybody?


Only? Thats a strange filter to throw on, but Kirilenko and Big Ben spring to mind as star players who are known primarily for their *D*. Andrei was magnificent last night vs the Suns. An up and comer IMO is Iguodala.

The league's best players are guys known for excelling on both ends of the floor. 

STOMP


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## riehldeal (May 11, 2003)

watching Cold Pizza right now and Skip was just arguing about how much HELP morrison gets from his teammates

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! has this guy seen any GU game besides the last one.....i am guessing not


he was citing Mallon and Erroll as big time guys .... i mean zagsfan, as much as i love our 6'9 account in Seany boy, he aint nutin......unbelievable how he had the game of his life against Indiana


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

riehldeal said:


> watching Cold Pizza right now and Skip was just arguing about how much HELP morrison gets from his teammates
> 
> HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! has this guy seen any GU game besides the last one.....i am guessing not
> 
> ...


was bayless still trumpetting that Morrison isn't in the 'same league' as JJ when it comes to three point shooting? They showed a clip of him on SP one night, where he was saying that Morrison isn't as good a shooter as JJ is, despite (at the time) Morrison actually shooting better. Doing a quick look at their stats this year, the same is true now. 

JJ over his college "career" has been a better 3 point shooter, but not this year. Has JJ had double teams to the degree Morrison has (I ask because I don't know, not to prove some point)?


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## riehldeal (May 11, 2003)

no question that morrison has faced more double teams and the degree of those doubles is off the charts as well

if you watched the games you would see Adam being constantly held and bumped as he works to get open

in the ACC where JJ is God no one can touch him without being called for a foul

it is no wonder why Adam has resorted to craftly tricks to get calls because he saw he wasnt getting them without them....the number and severity of double teams that morrison faced were ridiculous


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## Kmurph (May 7, 2003)

> Look at what happened to KVH. BTW, does anyone actually expect Morrison to surpass Keiths 19.7ppg, 6.6rpg, 1.7apg, 1spg rookie season?


I don't think Morrison is anything like Van Horn. Van Horn was soft in college, and got softer in the NBA IMO. Morrrison has more mobility, is more of a versatile scorer, and has more drive\passion than Van Horn EVER has, heck he has more drive than any player I have seen in a long long time, and I don't think that should be underestimated. Also, Morrison has a knack\gift for hitting clutch shots\making clutch plays, I don't remember Van Horn as nearly that type of player..

Morrison should clearly be POR #1 guy on the board IMO, I just don't think you can overlook his intangibles....


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## riehldeal (May 11, 2003)

hit it right on the head Kmurph


Adam will refuse to fail....the kid has supremem competitiveness.....also i am not sure if you guys saw his Chris Meyers interview on FSN, but it was refreshing to see Adam as a guy that admits his faults and says he is constantly working to improve those areas......

he knows his defense and rebounding needs to improve for the NBA game, its not like he is getting big headed and close minded to any weaknesses in his game


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## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

riehldeal said:


> Adam will refuse to fail....the kid has supremem competitiveness.....also i am not sure if you guys saw his Chris Meyers interview on FSN, but it was refreshing to see Adam as a guy that admits his faults and says he is constantly working to improve those areas......


yeah he will "refuse to fail", but really, how many people want to fail?


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

rocketeer said:


> yeah he will "refuse to fail", but really, how many people want to fail?


it's not about "wanting" to fail, but refusing to fail.

Some people are content with being what they are. Jordan, for example, could've probably been content with being a flashy dunker, and a volume scorer, but he had a knack in him to become one of, if not the best player to lace his boots up in the last 30 years. 

Darius seems to be (and a lot of NBA players) happy with just being there, getting paid. I believe the implication is that Morrison isn't one of those guys. He won't be happy just making in the NBA, and will work to improve his game and has shown he has improved his game each year. 

I don't think the opposite of refusing to fail is wanting to fail. Just like the opposite of love isn't hate, it's apathy.


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## Kmurph (May 7, 2003)

I don't think Morrison will ever be accused of apathy....and that is half...scratch that 3/4 of the battle, is it not?


After being an avid NBA fan for 20+ years, it certainly is IMO.


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## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

His refuse to fail attitude is wonderful, and if he's any kind of talent at all he will probably do well at the next level. My hope is that if the Blazers draft him he doesn't turn out to be an extremely hard working never say die player who just isn't fast, quick or good enough to have it matter.


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## sa1177 (Feb 18, 2005)

zagsfan20 said:


> Can anyone name an NBA star who's only known for his defense?.....anybody?


Well Bruce Bowen would be about as close as you can get I would think...some will say he isn't a star but IMO he is. The guy was just selected to the U.S. National team training camp for good reason...Defense.


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## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

A better question would be: has there ever been a star in the NBA who was as unathletic and one dimensional as Adam Morrison?


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## ThatBlazerGuy (May 1, 2003)

Answer: Nope.


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## Talkhard (May 13, 2003)

> Heck even Zagfan's link notes that Adam is not much of a defender, and last time I checked that was half of the game.


Charles Barkley was named one of the 50 greatest NBA players of all time, yet the guys he played against rated him the worst defensive player in the league.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

Fork said:


> A better question would be: has there ever been a star in the NBA who was as unathletic and one dimensional as Adam Morrison?


if you think he's terribly unatheltic or "one dimensional", you really haven't paid close attention to him.

Is he a super atheletic freak? nope. But Rip Hamilton, CHris mullin, Reggie Miller, Dale Ellis, Eddie Johnson, Adrian Dantley or Alex English didn't make their names on being super athletic freaks.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

Talkhard said:


> Charles Barkley was named one of the 50 greatest NBA players of all time, yet the guys he played against rated him the worst defensive player in the league.


Good point. Defense is being made waaaaay too important in this argument. yes, he needs to improve but so does Gay, Bargano and Aldrige. 

Drexler wasn't exactly a defensive star, nor is Ray Allen.


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## riehldeal (May 11, 2003)

he is far from one dimensional......if you mean he is one dimensional in that he is an offensive player then yes but

on the offensive end he is multi-dimensional


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## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

Hap said:


> it's not about "wanting" to fail, but refusing to fail.


but "refusing to fail" means nothing. it isn't necessarily up to morrison whether he succeeds or fails in the nba(and what succeeding or failing even means).


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## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

Hap said:


> Good point. Defense is being made waaaaay too important in this argument. yes, he needs to improve but so does Gay, Bargano and Aldrige.


that is ridiculous. i know you like morrison, but why pretend defense isn't very important? if he is a bad defensive player in the nba, that is bad for his team. barkley may not have been much of a defender, but he was a dominating rebounder which helped him make up for that. morrison isn't much of a defender or rebounder.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

rocketeer said:


> but "refusing to fail" means nothing. it isn't necessarily up to morrison whether he succeeds or fails in the nba(and what succeeding or failing even means).


it's not up to him? who is it up to?

btw, saying one refuses to fail, means that they don't give up, or don't want to stand pat.



rocketeer said:


> that is ridiculous. i know you like morrison, but why pretend defense isn't very important?


didn't say it wasn't important, just that it's being way over emphasized in the argument against Morrison. Considering he runs through screens to get open on offense, and constantly moving on offense seems to show that he has the ability to chase people, or at least out-smart them. I think thats a big sign that defense isn't too much to expect from him.

How often do you see defenders running through players/screens? thats not much different than what he does on offense



> if he is a bad defensive player in the nba, that is bad for his team. barkley may not have been much of a defender, but he was a dominating rebounder which helped him make up for that. morrison isn't much of a defender or rebounder.


I think he'll be a sufficient enough rebounder, and his defense isn't nearly as bad as people make it out to be, that he'll never improve. His biggest issue is help defense. One of Barkleys biggest positives was his fire. He would take over games when necessary, and dominated it when he did. 

Barkleys offensive game wasn't as wide-spread as morrisons was (and no, thats not saying morrison is a better "player"). 

To act tho, that he'll never improve is kind of silly. He hasn't show any reason to believe he can't improve.

just as Gay, Bargani and Aldridge haven't show any reason to believe they can't and won't improve their games too.

One of morrisons biggest positives is his scoring ability, and ability to make shots when they're needed. Whether or not it will translate to the NBA is unknow, but the same is true of all rookies. We don't know how they'll translate into NBA games.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

rocketeer said:


> but "refusing to fail" means nothing. it isn't necessarily up to morrison whether he succeeds or fails in the nba(and what succeeding or failing even means).


Totally agreed.

In spite of what many posters here seem to think, the majority of NBA players work very hard. Most aren't apathetic about how they do.

I totally, 100% believe that Morrison doesn't want to fail. I believe with certainty that he wants to succeed. But he's not different from the vast majority of the rest of the NBA in that respect.

Where is IS different, of course, is in the ability he's demonstrated in college to score the basketball. That difference is critical, and it's much more fruitful to discuss whether that ability (and his weaknesses) will port to the NBA game. Of course, we've done that ad nauseum. But it's still more helpful than discussions of intangibles and "refusing to fail" IMO.

Ed O.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

Hap said:


> it's not up to him? who is it up to?


The rest of the NBA. His coaches, teammates and opponents.

The odds of him simply being able to impose his will on the rest of the individuals in the game are ridiculously low.

Ed O.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

Ed O said:


> The rest of the NBA. His coaches, teammates and opponents.
> 
> The odds of him simply being able to impose his will on the rest of the individuals in the game are ridiculously low.
> 
> Ed O.


but if HE'S not good enough, than it's on who's shoulders?


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

Hap said:


> but if HE'S not good enough, than it's on who's shoulders?


Nobody's. Sometimes people just aren't good enough no matter how hard they try.

Of course, the people who have built him up in their minds to be the next Larry Bird will be looking around to blame _someone_ and he'll be the easiest and most natural target.

Ed O.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

Ed O said:


> Nobody's. Sometimes people just aren't good enough no matter how hard they try.


so if Adam isn't good enough to play in the NBA, it's not his fault?

good to know that he has others to blame for him not being good enough.



> Of course, the people who have built him up in their minds to be the next Larry Bird will be looking around to blame _someone_ and he'll be the easiest and most natural target.
> 
> Ed O.


if HE'S not good enough, it'll be because of HIM. If HE'S good enough, it'll be because HE's good enuogh.

I see a patter HEre.


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## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

Hap said:


> so if Adam isn't good enough to play in the NBA, it's not his fault?


if he's not good enough, he just isn't good enough. how is that his fault? is it my fault that i'm not good enough to play in the nba? maybe he just isn't athletic enough to get good shots off against nba defenders and he is too much of a liability on defense to really get many minutes. if he just isn't good enough, it's not his fault.

now a guy like jerome james or someone that can play good for a couple weeks to get a new contract and then suddenly sucks again, it's his fault that he sucks. but if a guy like morrison is trying hard and "refusing to fail" or whatever and he still just isn't good enough, i don't see how that is his fault.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Fork said:


> A better question would be: has there ever been a star in the NBA who was as unathletic and one dimensional as Adam Morrison?


HAHAHAHA!!!.....One dimensional.... :laugh: 

Your a comedian...

A one dimensional player is a J.J. Redick whose only thing he does is role off of screens for outside jumpshots...

I've shown again and again that he is underrated athletically, you just want to use that same excuse as a cop out....

Morrison can score in a plethora of different ways, inside, outside, off the dribble, catch and shoot, can drive to the rack....he can rebound just fine for his position (he averages 1 rebound less per game then Gay and 1 rebound more than Rodney Carney)....He's also a good passer too...

I'm not sure which Adam Morrison you're watching or if you just don't understand a lick about the game of basketball...

Now keep on spouting off uninformed opinions...


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## Kmurph (May 7, 2003)

> In spite of what many posters here seem to think, the majority of NBA players work very hard. Most aren't apathetic about how they do.


I don't believe that is a true statement Ed...

I think you can look at far as the POR roster to see examples quite to the contrary...

I think there is a difference b\t a guy who shows up to practice (b\c he has to) and a guy who shows up early and\or stays late, when he cleary does not have to...

Or a guy who plays pick-up games at select areas around the country with fellow NBA'ers, and a guy who works out with trainers and coaches for weeks at a time to improve his skillset....

Technically, yeah they all "work" at their profession, but IMO there is CLEARLY a difference b\t those who work and those who work hard...

Morrison may not have the athletic ability of a Darius Miles or Travis Outlaw, but he holds (IMO) a lot of other intagible qualities over them (qualitites that, IMO are highly undervalued) that more than make up for it.

Like you said, he has more than (IMO) demonstrated the ability to score, I think he will be able to do the same in the NBA...If Wally Sczerbiak or Kieth Van Horn can effectively score in the NBA, so to can Adam Morrison, and I think he is better than either of those guys.

As for the Bird comparisons, yeah they are totally unfair, but I am not the one throwing them out, so I for one won't be upset if he fails to live up to such unrealisitc expectations. I don't know if he is going to be a great NBA player or an average one, but I do think he is no more a risk (I would say less so) than the other players bantered about as possible POR picks...and I think he , more than any of the others 
has demonstrated the "capability" to be a "go-to-guy" at least on the college level...which when your trying to project a guy for the NBA is a major component IMO...


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

rocketeer said:


> if he's not good enough, he just isn't good enough. how is that his fault? is it my fault that i'm not good enough to play in the nba? maybe he just isn't athletic enough to get good shots off against nba defenders and he is too much of a liability on defense to really get many minutes. if he just isn't good enough, it's not his fault.
> 
> now a guy like jerome james or someone that can play good for a couple weeks to get a new contract and then suddenly sucks again, it's his fault that he sucks. but if a guy like morrison is trying hard and "refusing to fail" or whatever and he still just isn't good enough, i don't see how that is his fault.


100% correct. I don't think that anyone's under the illusion that all players work hard, and if a player doesn't work hard and doesn't succeed in the NBA, then one could blame that player, I suppose. But a guy who (in our hypothetical) works hard and doesn't succeed? I don't see blaming him.

Further, I don't think that Morrison won't be good enough to be an NBA player. I think that he can "refuse to fail" as a top-3 pick and just be a journeyman... and still fail.

If he's working hard and he just isn't as good as his competitors, there's no one to blame. Even the GM that drafts him, though, will probably be making a reasonable selection.

I guess some people just have to blame people for things. I'm not one of those people.

Ed O.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

John Stockton and Steve Nash are both byproducts of what happens if you have the drive to succeed and competiveness of Adam Morrison....The difference between Morrison and those guys is that Morrison is 6'8"....


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

To quote my statement Kmurph questions: "In spite of what many posters here seem to think, the majority of NBA players work very hard. Most aren't apathetic about how they do."



Kmurph said:


> I don't believe that is a true statement Ed...
> 
> I think you can look at far as the POR roster to see examples quite to the contrary...


Actually, the Portland roster is a clear example of hard work that is overlooked by many on this board.

Does Steve Blake work hard? Does Jarret Jack? Does Joel Przybilla? Does Viktor Khryapa? Does Brian Skinner?

I think that the answer to those questions are all clearly "yes".

I think that Telfair works hard. I think that Martell Webster works hard. I think that Travis Outlaw works hard. 

That's 8 Blazers. Of 14 on the roster. Already at a majority, and I think it'd be hard to argue with many of those.

Zach has worked very hard to come back from a knee injury. Theo has worked to stay in shape in spite of a (predictable) myriad of injuries. Juan Dixon, Voshon Lenard, and Ha Seung-Ja all are less clearly hard workers, but does anyone think that they actually don't care, and don't work to succeed?

So the only person left is Miles, who is the latest whipping boy. People look at Darius and think that he is representative of the team and the NBA, and even if you assume the worst about him (lack of motivation, lack of work ethic, etc.) it simply doesn't logically follow that the rest of his teammates would have the same attitude. And it's not fair to paint the rest of the guys with the same brush.

And yet you seemed to do that, Kmurph. Making my point perfectly.

I see a bad basketball team, and several below-average NBA players, but I also see a team that's for the most part worked pretty hard in spite of being in a hopeless situation in terms of wins and losses.

Maybe I, for once, am simply the wide-eyed optimist. I dunno.

Ed O.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

zagsfan20 said:


> John Stockton and Steve Nash are both byproducts of what happens if you have the drive to succeed and competiveness of Adam Morrison....The difference between Morrison and those guys is that Morrison is 6'8"....


Yep. That's the difference.

I knew there was something, but I couldn't put my finger on it.

Ed O.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Ed O said:


> Yep. That's the difference.
> 
> I knew there was something, but I couldn't put my finger on it.
> 
> Ed O.


Morrison's physically gifted, those others are not...He is also much versatile and better than those guys at the same age...

Morrison is considered a dirty player, just like Stockton...

Morrison has more tools with the same attitude as those guys, that is going to be deadly....


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

zagsfan20 said:


> Morrison's physically gifted, those others are not...He is also much versatile and better than those guys at the same age...
> 
> Morrison is considered a dirty player, just like Stockton...
> 
> Morrison has more tools with the same attitude as those guys, that is going to be deadly....


John Stockton wasn't physically gifted? Did you ever see the size of his hands? Steve Nash, at 6'3", has a size advantage over many people at his position, something Morrison will almost never have. 

Something they won't have that he will is diabetes, of course. I know almost nothing about the condition, but I know that it's serious and not something that should be ignored.

Your assertion that they had "the drive to succeed and competiveness of Adam Morrison" is just circular reasoning and doesn't hold water.

Ed O.


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## yakbladder (Sep 13, 2003)

zagsfan20 said:


> Morrison's physically gifted, those others are not...He is also much versatile and better than those guys at the same age...
> 
> Morrison is considered a dirty player, just like Stockton...
> 
> Morrison has more tools with the same attitude as those guys, that is going to be deadly....


Steve Nash isn't physically gifted? His speed isn't considered a gift? So only size now is considered a gift? Odd...

The really great thing (sarcasm here) about this is no one will know for probably ten years what to make of Adam Morrison. He could really suck it up the first five years and people would make excuses for why that is... or he could be an All Star in year one, not that that is really any measure of ability, and all the people who didn't proclaim Morrison as the second coming would have to eat crow.

I think what's kind of disappointing is the fact that anybody who disagrees with the statement that Morrison will be an incredible player is framed as anti-Morrison. When in reality most people are just trying to assess his skills and aren't drinking the kool-aid from the hype machine... I, for one, think Duke gets a lot more hype and TV time than they deserve. But I also think Gonzaga gets a good deal of that on the West Coast....Oh for the days of Loyola-Marymount...


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## yakbladder (Sep 13, 2003)

Ed O said:


> John Stockton wasn't physically gifted? Did you ever see the size of his hands? Steve Nash, at 6'3", has a size advantage over many people at his position, something Morrison will almost never have.
> 
> Something they won't have that he will is diabetes, of course. I know almost nothing about the condition, but I know that it's serious and not something that should be ignored.
> 
> ...


With proper treatment and attention, his diabetes shouldn't be an issue. There have been other players, some in other sports come to mind, who have been quite successful and had diabetes. Ron Santo off the top of my head (of course that's baseball...sooooo.....)


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Ed O said:


> John Stockton wasn't physically gifted? Did you ever see the size of his hands? Steve Nash, at 6'3", has a size advantage over many people at his position, something Morrison will almost never have.
> 
> Something they won't have that he will is diabetes, of course. I know almost nothing about the condition, but I know that it's serious and not something that should be ignored.
> 
> ...


The size of his hands didn't make him a great college player...He was pretty good, but by no means was he great....Rasheed Wallace has extremely small hands and he does just fine...Size of your hands isn't going to make you a star, if thats the case, I'm sure there's plenty of people out their with big hands who have never done squat in basketball, albeit future hall of famers...

and Steve Nash is not that inflated 6'3" that they say he is....He's far from it, I have worked many Suns and Mavericks games when Nash was in town and stood by him and he is no 6'3" i guarantee that....

btw, the only way that diabetes is going to effect an athlete (or a person in general) is if they don't take care of it by maintaining there glucose levels by eating healthy and excercising, both of which Morrison does...the diabetes thing is just kind of grasping at straws....

Jackie Robinson was diabetic, Bobby Clarke was diabetic, Ty Cobb was diabetic, Catfish Hunter was diabetic, Billie Jean King was diabetic, Sugar Ray Robinson was diabetic, Art Shell was diabetic....Diabetes won't be an issue...


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

yakbladder said:


> *Steve Nash isn't physically gifted? His speed isn't considered a gift? So only size now is considered a gift? Odd...*



Funny you say that....I was just reading in depth Sports Illustrated article about Nash....and he isn't very fast as people would like to think, he actually is deceptively fast because of the way that uses angles and has good start and stop time speed (in that he can get going off the dribble quick and then stop and pop before a player can react) but he's not very fast at all and even he'll admit it....It also discussed how Santa Clara was the only school that recruited him because he wasn't gifted athletically and couldn't defend a lick....


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## BlazerCaravan (Aug 12, 2004)

Steve Nash seems faster because of the Canada/US exchange rate... but really, 15 Canadian MPH is like only 9 US MPH.


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## Talkhard (May 13, 2003)

> John Stockton and Steve Nash are both byproducts of what happens if you have the drive to succeed and competiveness of Adam Morrison....


Excellent point! Those players are great examples because neither is exceptionally gifted athletically, but their drive to succeed has elevated them above the crowd. I believe the same will be true of Morrison, and I think the team that drafts him is going to strike gold.


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## yakbladder (Sep 13, 2003)

zagsfan20 said:


> Funny you say that....I was just reading in depth Sports Illustrated article about Nash....and he isn't very fast as people would like to think, he actually is deceptively fast because of the way that uses angles and has good start and stop time speed (in that he can get going off the dribble quick and then stop and pop before a player can react) but he's not very fast at all and even he'll admit it....It also discussed how Santa Clara was the only school that recruited him because he wasn't gifted athletically and couldn't defend a lick....


Ok, if you want to be technical..his acceleration isn't a gift?

I think all NBA players are gifted to some extent....


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)




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## barfo (Jan 2, 2003)

barfo


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## crandc (Sep 15, 2004)

Today's SF _Chronicle_ had a front page story on Morrison's diabetes management. I'll see if I can find a link to the on line version. The article quoted extensively from Chris Dudley, who was inspired by hockey hall of famer Bobby Clarke. It also mentions Santo and Gary Hall, Jr., who won 10 Olympic medals.

Duds pointed out that managing diabetes can make a person more disciplined.


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## riehldeal (May 11, 2003)

its a healthy obsession though......if you aint a gonzaga fan you wouldnt understand.....GU fans eat, sleep, and breathe basketball and GU hoops


hey zagsfan......just curious, what is your connection to GU????


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## yakbladder (Sep 13, 2003)

riehldeal said:


> its a healthy obsession though......if you aint a gonzaga fan you wouldnt understand.....GU fans eat, sleep, and breathe basketball and GU hoops
> 
> 
> hey zagsfan......just curious, what is your connection to GU????


Ah, and delusional too, I see. For no fan of any other team could understand a fan of a different team, regardless of whether they ate, slept, and breathed that team.... :biggrin:


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## meru (Jul 2, 2003)

It's sad that Morrison will never be the player his father was if his feeble attempts to match his dad's tonsorial glory are any indication:


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

meru said:


> It's sad that Morrison will never be the player his father was if his feeble attempts to match his dad's tonsorial glory are any indication:


hey, it's mister kotter.


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## tlong (Jan 6, 2003)

riehldeal said:


> its a healthy obsession though......if you aint a gonzaga fan you wouldnt understand.....GU fans eat, sleep, and breathe basketball and GU hoops
> 
> 
> hey zagsfan......just curious, what is your connection to GU????


I believe zagsfan's connection is that he flunked out of Gonzaga in '03.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

tlong said:


> I believe zagsfan's connection is that he flunked out of Gonzaga in '03.


I don't know too many hgh school seniors (or juniors) who would be able to not flunk out of Gonzaga, while living in the Portland Metro area and going to high school at the time.


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## tlong (Jan 6, 2003)

I keed. I keed.


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## ThatBlazerGuy (May 1, 2003)

Zagsfan, if for some reason Oden was in this draft, would you take him ahead of Adam?

I just dont believe that he is a superstar caliber player. He has drive, but their are some physical limitations and some huge, gaping holes in this game that will prevent him from superstardom.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

ThatBlazerGuy said:


> Zagsfan, if for some reason Oden was in this draft, would you take him ahead of Adam?
> 
> I just dont believe that he is a superstar caliber player. He has drive, but their are some physical limitations and some huge, gaping holes in this game that will prevent him from superstardom.


there are gaping holes in odens game too. people are excited about him on what he'll become, not what he is.


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## Kmurph (May 7, 2003)

Re-read my post Ed....

They all work, they all go to this guy or that guy's hometown\area to run a little 5 on 5 in the offseason, they all for the most part work at practice, but clearly some players work harder than others, I don't understand why this is such a difficult concept to grasp....

I guarantee you that there are probably 2-3 players on POR roster who are CONSISTENTLY either\both the 1st to arrive and\or last to leave, or come in on an off-practice day to work on their game...I see a difference there, apparently you do not.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

Kmurph said:


> I guarantee you that there are probably 2-3 players on POR roster who are CONSISTENTLY either\both the 1st to arrive and\or last to leave, or come in on an off-practice day to work on their game...I see a difference there, apparently you do not.


How can more than one person be the first to arrive?

You and I are just speculating about which players might outwork the others. My point was that the vast majority of the NBA works much, much harder than many posters here are willing to acknowledge. That some work even harder isn't much of a shock or a revalation... just like some players are taller than others, some are faster than others, and some shoot better than others, there will always be some players that work harder than their peers. I'm not sure how much hard work can overcome other limitations at the NBA level.

Ed O.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

riehldeal said:


> its a healthy obsession though......if you aint a gonzaga fan you wouldnt understand.....GU fans eat, sleep, and breathe basketball and GU hoops
> 
> 
> *hey zagsfan......just curious, what is your connection to GU????*


both parents are alums and a family friend I've known since birth is on the basketball team...


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## Kmurph (May 7, 2003)

> How can more than one person be the first to arrive?


Among the 1st ones to arrive...but you knew that already....



> I'm not sure how much hard work can overcome other limitations at the NBA level.


If you don't think hard work and effort can overcome limitiations in athleticism in the NBA then there is nothing more to say...


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