# Orlando going after Darko?



## JNice

..

Hoopshype and RealGM reporting that Orlando is apparently trying to get Carlos Arroyo and Dark for Kelvin Cato. 

I'd say if we could manage to pull that off, do it in a second. We don't have much need for Arroyo but he could probably be dealy elsewhere.

This season is almost over for Orlando anyway. I'd say start Darko and throw him to the fire next to Dwight for the rest of the season and see what happens. And trade Francis ...


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## X-Factor

I would do that trade in half a heartbeat. Darko and Dwight, with Jameer & Diener in the backcourt. That team would be sick in the future. And then when Fran Vasquez comes over to the NBA ( :laugh: ) we could move him to the three.

Diener, Nelson, Vasquez, Darko and Dwight. That would be a pretty insane lineup.


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## Duck

That deal is an obvious no-brainer. Darko would be a welcomed addition to the Magic's frontcourt and Kelvin can't seem to keep himself healthy anyway.


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## rainman

Duck34234 said:


> That deal is an obvious no-brainer. Darko would be a welcomed addition to the Magic's frontcourt and Kelvin can't seem to keep himself healthy anyway.


i'm with the majority here, i would get rid of francis also. play jameer, draft a ronnie brewer or an adam morrison if the ping pong balls go the right way and you have yourself an entertaining young team that will get better and better over time. get the moving truck ready.


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## Zuca

I've suggested in Pistons board that a move should be... Cato, the draft rights to Fran Vazquez, Travis Diener and a draft pick for Darko and Arroyo... But you can threw out Diener and put another second-rounder if Orlando want to keep him... It would be good for both teams, since Pistons don't need Vazquez now, so they can wait and just sign him when they really need him... And Orlando getting Darko now, since they just need some help now...


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## deanwoof

I would love this trade. Anything that breathes is better up front than Cato this year.


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## DTigre

I don't think Dumars is stupid enough to do this trade. (At least I hope he's not)


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## deanwoof

Why not? Cato would be a decent backup for the Wallaces. It's not like Darko nor Dale Davis has cracked the rotation. And it's always good to have an extra veteran big man in the playoffs. 

And with Ben Wallace's contract expiring and Tayshaun Prince's new deal kicking in, Dumars may want to stay $10M over the cap, tops.


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## JNice

DTigre said:


> I don't think Dumars is stupid enough to do this trade. (At least I hope he's not)



It's not really that stupid. The Pistons have a shot at being contenders for this year and probably at least another 3-4 yrs. To this point, they haven't needed Darko one bit. And once Lindsey Hunter is healthy, Arroyo probably won't be playing. Everyone has been *****ing about him. 

In Cato they possibly get a big they might be able to use a little in the playoffs but most of all they free up some money for themselves at the end of the year to help keep their current squad together.

Minutes for Darko in Pistonville aren't coming anytime soon with the guys they've got. I'm sure they know that even if they keep him around by the time he gets any real PT with them his confidence would be totally gone by then. Plus, when his rookie deal is done someone will definitely pay to get him and he certainly won't be hanging around Detroit where they never play him.

Keeping their current squad together is the most important thing for Detroit ...


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## rainman

JNice said:


> It's not really that stupid. The Pistons have a shot at being contenders for this year and probably at least another 3-4 yrs. To this point, they haven't needed Darko one bit. And once Lindsey Hunter is healthy, Arroyo probably won't be playing. Everyone has been *****ing about him.
> 
> In Cato they possibly get a big they might be able to use a little in the playoffs but most of all they free up some money for themselves at the end of the year to help keep their current squad together.
> 
> Minutes for Darko in Pistonville aren't coming anytime soon with the guys they've got. I'm sure they know that even if they keep him around by the time he gets any real PT with them his confidence would be totally gone by then. Plus, when his rookie deal is done someone will definitely pay to get him and he certainly won't be hanging around Detroit where they never play him.
> 
> Keeping their current squad together is the most important thing for Detroit ...


good read on the darko situation there, besides what do they really think of him if they wont even play him against the dregs of the league when they even admit their bigmen need a rest. i think he would be ideal for orlando. i may be in the minority but i think the kid is going to be good.


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## char_renee

check this out.
https://home.comcast.net/~hurons.blogspot/darkotnt.wmv


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## JNice

..

:laugh:

Not much of a highlight reel... the kid obviously has got skills.


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## char_renee

JNice said:


> ..
> 
> :laugh:
> 
> Not much of a highlight reel... the kid obviously has got skills.


i snatched it from someone off another magic board it's all i could fine.lol


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## JNice

char_renee said:


> i snatched it from someone off another magic board it's all i could fine.lol



It isn't much but you can see even in those small clips that he is highly skilled for a guy his size. Nice shooting stroke.

I'd love to see what he could do for a couple weeks given 30 mins a night. I think he could be a great fit next to Dwight.


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## char_renee

JNice said:


> It isn't much but you can see even in those small clips that he is highly skilled for a guy his size. Nice shooting stroke.
> 
> I'd love to see what he could do for a couple weeks given 30 mins a night. I think he could be a great fit next to Dwight.


 he would do very good on the magic squad he will be very good in the future with alot of patience,i have a feeling he's gonna be extremly brilliant.carlos on the hand tries to be too cute with the ball but he is talented though.i feel bad for darko here in detroit he gets no minutes i honestly dont care who we get as long as darko's happy he's young and deserves a chance.if he is traded my eyes are gonna be glued to his 1st game with you guys to see how good he does.lol


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## JNice

char_renee said:


> he would do very good on the magic squad he will be very good in the future with alot of patience,i have a feeling he's gonna be extremly brilliant.carlos on the hand tries to be too cute with the ball but he is talented though.i feel bad for darko here in detroit he gets no minutes i honestly dont care who we get as long as darko's happy he's young and deserves a chance.



I agree. Darko is just in a bad situation for his development right now.

I posted this elsewhere but I have a feeling that if the deal were to happen the rights to Fran Vasquez would go over to Detroit as part of the deal.


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## char_renee

JNice said:


> I agree. Darko is just in a bad situation for his development right now.
> 
> I posted this elsewhere but I have a feeling that if the deal were to happen the rights to Fran Vasquez would go over to Detroit as part of the deal.


 i just pray if pistons give arroya away they get a PG in return either from you guys or somewhere else cause we have nobody to replace billups.lindsey is a good defenseive player for off the bench but in case of a injury to billups(knocks on wood)we have someone to replace him.


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## DetroitDiesel

With darko doing nothing for the pistons, and arroyo playing erraticly and sometimes selfishly I wouldn't object to moving them. Problem is it leaves the pistons absolutely naked at the pg position. If we got jameer nelson instead of the first rnder with cato I would be ok with that. Drop some salary and get a pg with big upside.

If the deal goes down as listed it would be a winfall for orlando. You guys could then move one of your pg's for another piece.


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## JNice

DetroitDiesel said:


> With darko doing nothing for the pistons, and arroyo playing erraticly and sometimes selfishly I wouldn't object to moving them. Problem is it leaves the pistons absolutely naked at the pg position. If we got jameer nelson instead of the first rnder with cato I would be ok with that. Drop some salary and get a pg with big upside.
> 
> If the deal goes down as listed it would be a winfall for orlando. You guys could then move one of your pg's for another piece.



If you get a PG from us it will be Diener, not Nelson. With Orlando looking hard to move Francis there is no way we move Nelson at this point.

Maybe some kind of 3 team trade that sends a PG to Detroit or a prior trade by Orlando picking up some other PG and sending to Detroit.


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## Zuca

I think that Darko and Arroyo for Cato, the draft rights of Vasquez and Diener is pretty fine for both teams. Magic won't need Diener even if they move Francis, since they would have Arroyo, Dooling and Jameer playing the PG spot. For Detroit, having Diener and Hunter is fine to backup Billups... Cato is another big, and they would have Vasquez for the future... Darko may blossom in Orlando, I hope this deal becomes true...


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## JNice

..

Ric Bucher reporting on ESPN this deal is very close ... Cato and a first round pick for Darko and Arroyo. He said it is very close with the details really being the protection on the first round pick. He said expect to hear something in the next 24 hours.

Man .. if Darko turns out .. with Dwight .. this could be a real coup for Orlando.


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## SignGuyDino

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2331049


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## JNice

..

Seems rather likely at this point it is going to happen. I hope Orlando doesn't give away it's pick for this draft. It should be pretty high.


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## JNice

..

With Dwight, Darko, Vasquez, Kasun, and Battie possibly in 2-3 yrs from now ... that could be one hell of a frontcourt rotation.


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## JNice

..

A couple things I see happening if this goes down.

1. Vasquez's rights being traded in another deal sometime before next year. Orlando will have a hard time getting him to come over. 

2. I think this deal would signal even stronger that Francis is on his way out. Hopefully soon.

If this happens and Orlando keeps its pick .. I'd like to see Orlando try to draft Redick. Him and Nelson in the backcourt might be a defensive issue but with post presences of Dwight and Darko having Redick on the outside could be deadly. He is clearly one of the best shooters on the planet right now.


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## froggyvk

My scouting report on Darko:

Pros:
-Outside game - he's comfortable on the perimeter, has "long-two" range
-Quickness - given the situation I think he could play the 3, 4, or 5
-Blocking shots - lead the NBA in blocks in the preseason
-passing - by far his best asset, has great court vision

Cons:
-rebounding/hands - seems to bobble to much
-effort - the biggest problem in Detroit, probably due to no playing time/playing in garbage time
-turnovers - looks to make hard passes to often, also b/c of his hands he gets it stripped a lot of bobbles it trying to catch it

Overall, I think it's a good trade for both teams. Like I said on the Pistons board, I wouldn't want to face Howard/Darko in the future. Even if Darko proves to be a great player and people eventually question the trade for Detroit, they need to realize that what Darko could be in Orlando, he never would be in Detroit.

Pleasure doing business with you all if it goes down. You'd be getting a 20-yr. old legit 7 footer who before the season I said I would not have traded for the #1 pick in the 2005 draft (Andrew Bogut).


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## JNice

froggyvk said:


> Overall, I think it's a good trade for both teams. Like I said on the Pistons board, I wouldn't want to face Howard/Darko in the future. Even if Darko proves to be a great player and people eventually question the trade for Detroit, they need to realize that what Darko could be in Orlando, he never would be in Detroit.


I agree. As I read today even if Darko had "broken out" this year Detroit wouldn't have been able to re-sign him anyway. Cut your losses and keep a championship squad together as long as possible. Seems like a good plan.


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## arenas809

If I'm Orlando I'd give up this year's pick.

The 2007 draft is going to be an amazing draft, and you don't want to hand the Pistons another lotto pick, which it will be, in a loaded draft.


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## Damian Necronamous

If Darko pans out, he, Howard and Nelson will be nasty.

Great roll of the dice by the Magic if it goes down.


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## JNice

Damian Necronamous said:


> If Darko pans out, he, Howard and Nelson will be nasty.
> 
> Great roll of the dice by the Magic if it goes down.


Could Orlando's two-headed GM finally be competent management? Ah .. I gotta believe it to see it.


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## arenas809

JNice said:


> Could Orlando's two-headed GM finally be competent management? Ah .. I gotta believe it to see it.


I like this deal a lot more if they give up the 2006 pick.

If Darko doesn't pan out, and a lot of people don't think he will, this is an awful trade.

A decent sized expiring contract and a lotto pick in the 07 Draft for a bust and a backup PG.

If things continue to go wrong, just move to Kansas City.


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## JNice

arenas809 said:


> I like this deal a lot more if they give up the 2006 pick.
> 
> If Darko doesn't pan out, and a lot of people don't think he will, this is an awful trade.
> 
> A decent sized expiring contract and a lotto pick in the 07 Draft for a bust and a backup PG.
> 
> If things continue to go wrong, just move to Kansas City.



Well, I forgot Oden was coming out in 2007 (probably) ... if Orlando gives up a pick that turns into Oden I'd shoot myself.


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## Brian.

Well if this trade does go down good luck to Magic fans. Darko has been very frustrating to watch these past few years. Positives are he is a great passer for a big man. Unforuntely that is the only thing he has consistently done well since he has been here. The biggest knock against him has been his work ethic. Both LB and Flip complained about his lack of hustle in practice and during the little time he did play in Detroit he never showed any heart. I think he still has the oppurtunity to be a good player in this league but he needs to change his attitude. Maybe a change of scenery will do this for him.


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## Scinos

I can see Darko being a decent fit in Orlando. Being a number 2 pick, he's probably never going to live up to the hype. But he could be a nice role player, and his skill set (shooting touch, passing, blocking) seems like it could compliment Dwight nicely. Maybe a 10/6/2 center ? That's not bad by todays standards.

It will be interesting to see the sets they run. You could spread the floor, and have Darko at the top feeding Howard in the post. If they double down on him, Darko has the open shot. Kind of like the Lakers a couple of years ago with Malone/Shaq. 

The biggest concern is how good that Orlando draft pick becomes. You have to have some kind of protection on it this season, in case you win the lottery. But then again, you don't want it rolling over to next season unprotected either.

My question is, what becomes of the 4 headed monster at the PG spot ? Francis, Nelson, Arroyo, Dooling (5 if you count Diener). I guess Francis is the one to go ?


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## MLKG

Darko doesn't rebound on defense but Howard would cover that weakness just a little bit.

Darko could stretch defenses away from Howard under the hoop.

Darko would love passing the ball to Howard under the basket.

I hope Detroit doesn't do this deal. 

It's not worth it unless that draft pick is totally unprotected.


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## JNice

Scinos said:


> I can see Darko being a decent fit in Orlando. Being a number 2 pick, he's probably never going to live up to the hype. But he could be a nice role player, and his skill set (shooting touch, passing, blocking) seems like it could compliment Dwight nicely. Maybe a 10/6/2 center ? That's not bad by todays standards.
> 
> It will be interesting to see the sets they run. You could spread the floor, and have Darko at the top feeding Howard in the post. If they double down on him, Darko has the open shot. Kind of like the Lakers a couple of years ago with Malone/Shaq.
> 
> The biggest concern is how good that Orlando draft pick becomes. You have to have some kind of protection on it this season, in case you win the lottery. But then again, you don't want it rolling over to next season unprotected either.
> 
> My question is, what becomes of the 4 headed monster at the PG spot ? Francis, Nelson, Arroyo, Dooling (5 if you count Diener). I guess Francis is the one to go ?


Francis is almost definitely on his way out. And I wouldn't expect Arroyo to necessarily be around that much longer either. *Unless* there is a bigger problem with Nelson's foot that we have been lead to believe. 

The only risk for Orlando is that draft pick. As arenas said the 2007 draft could be loaded with stud players. No way Orlando can allow that pick in 2007 without it being lottery protected.

Other than that there isn't much risk in Darko. Cato wasn't going to be back anyway. If Darko doesn't work out then they just don't re-sign him when his rookie deal is done. I think at worst he could be similar to Nenad Krstic .. which is better than what they have now.


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## cpawfan

With a front court of DHo and Darko, the biggest test will be how quickly the Magic can rid themselves of Francis and Arroyo as neither has shown any desire to feed their big men.


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## lw32

JNice said:


> Could Orlando's two-headed GM finally be competent management? Ah .. I gotta believe it to see it.


No. Don't count on it, 1 risky move that may or may not pan out does not negate the fact that management A). drafted Fran Vazquez, B). Can't get Brian Hill to make a game plan of dump the ball to Dwight, and C). let Zaza go when we desperately need some big bodies (Garrity is not big obviously).

I don't know about the deal, what has Darko shown to warrant a 1st rounder (which will probably be a high 1st)? Sure, he was the 2nd overall pick. That's his claim to fame. He's proven nothing, and can't even get on the bench. Now Detroit doesn't have a bad bench, but if he was deserving I'm sure he'd get time. He's had 2 different coaches now, and the stories the same. I'd bet my bottom dollar that if he was anywhere near worthy of minutes that Dumars would order the coach to play him to save face on a bad draft pick and raise his value.

Sure I could be wrong in the future, but Darko's shown nothing to warrant a draft pick. Crap, Cato's more productive than he is. The only thing Darko has is age on his side.

This is an extremely risky move, unless that pick has lots of protection on it I don't believe it's worth it.


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## ralaw

I think the Darko trade is a good trade for Olando. Darko has some ability (rebounding, inside scoring, a little short jumper), but has yet to display it due to his confidence being broken. I think he'll get that back with consistent playing time. Cato will be missed, but you can't pass up a talent like Darko, even if it is a top pick in a weak draft.


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## lw32

It looks like the deal will go down. Unfortunately in my opinion.

The only reason I have for everyone believing that this is a favorable deal is that we're all hungry for a trade and some more shake ups. If someone else has a legitimate reason for thinking Darko is still worth a (probable) lottery pick, which doesn't include the words potential (which Darko has shown little of in the NBA), and his age (which is the only real reason he's still in the league, as well as the fact that his 1st contract hasn't run out) please feel free to answer. We're talking about trading a probable 2007, unprotected pick for Darko. If the picks protected in 2007, then I'm slightly happier. But not much. I'd rather give up Vazquez and 2 2nd rounders.

Detroit has a fantastic front office, probably the best in the League. Remember the reason Detroit had the Darko pick in the first place? That's right, the Memphis trade for Otis (who?) Thorpe. A protected pick which eventually outlived it's protection and turned into the #2 overall. Anyone remember Detroit trading us Hill for Wallace and Atkins? Billups just so happened to pass through Orlando on his eventual way to Detroit too. I've got to hand it to Detroit, they have an impressive record of dealing.


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## ralaw

Lachlanwood32 said:


> It looks like the deal will go down. Unfortunately in my opinion.
> 
> The only reason I have for everyone believing that this is a favorable deal is that we're all hungry for a trade and some more shake ups. If someone else has a legitimate reason for thinking Darko is still worth a (probable) lottery pick, which doesn't include the words potential (which Darko has shown little of in the NBA), and his age (which is the only real reason he's still in the league, as well as the fact that his 1st contract hasn't run out) please feel free to answer. We're talking about trading a probable 2007, unprotected pick for Darko. If the picks protected in 2007, then I'm slightly happier. But not much. I'd rather give up Vazquez and 2 2nd rounders.
> 
> Detroit has a fantastic front office, probably the best in the League. Remember the reason Detroit had the Darko pick in the first place? That's right, the Memphis trade for Otis (who?) Thorpe. A protected pick which eventually outlived it's protection and turned into the #2 overall. Anyone remember Detroit trading us Hill for Wallace and Atkins? Billups just so happened to pass through Orlando on his eventual way to Detroit too. I've got to hand it to Detroit, they have an impressive record of dealing.


You make some good points and I must agree. However, I think the Magic are looking to build a young nucleus around D. Howard and give the team to him. I still believe in Darko, so I am more excited about the trade than you. Yes, Dumars knows how to build a team and dealing with him makes me nervous because he has yet to make a bad deal.


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## md6655321

As a Pistons fan who has seen almost every minute Darko has played I will tell you that he is easily worth a lottery pick. Maybe not a top 5, but he is definitely worth the risk. The man doesnt turn 21 until late june. 

He hasnt played well in Detroit because there was no way for him to earn minutes under Larry, and there has been no way for him to earn minutes on a team that was until recently chasing 70. Remember, this is a team where Antonio McDyess, a very competent former all star, cant crack 20 minutes a game. McDyess would surely start on most teams in this league. As a result, Darko quit working because he knew it wouldnt do him any good. Of course, that is not a good sign but there are still many good ones.

1. His passing. You simply cant teach good passing in the NBA. You either have that instinct for the game or you dont. As a teenager, he passed VERY well in the minutes he got. I have no doubt that his passing skills are similar to other euro post men like Sabonis and Divac. Really.

2. Blocking. He led the league in blocks during preseason. With a guy like Howard rebounding everything within 50 feet of the backboard, Darko will be able to go after every block. And he will get 2-4 a game. Blocks are also a horribly underrated stat because how they change the entire complexion of the game. Watching the Pistons throughout the years, it was easy to see the their defense started and ended with Ben blocking ability. 

3. Speed and agility. Another little known fact, Darko had better lane agility than Melo at the pre draft workout. That is FAST for a 7-1 big man. Howard and Darko will be able to out run EVERY other frontcourt in the league. Easily.

4. Shooting touch. Before Larry Brown went all Larry Brown on Darko, he was a very adept 3 point shooter. If he gets the chance his range will easily be in the 20 foot range. Which is an absolutely PERFECT compliment to Howards low post game. Additionally, because Howard will get all the respect at the beginning, Darko will be left open to drain those shots until he gains confidence. Once he starts draining him, defenses will have to ease off Howard in the low post, and oh what a vicious cycle that will be for opposing defenses.

When you look at Darko's history, I think you have to be excited about him. His only realy black mark is the fact that LArry Brown hated him and refused to play him. That is hardly and uncommon story in the NBA. And then you have this season, where he never had a chance.

I would be VERY excited to be an Orlando fan right now, and to be honest, the Magic will be my second favorite team as soon as Darko puts on that jersey. People ask what has he shown? Nothing. But he certainly hasnt shown that he is bad either, like Kwame Brown. Darko has simply not had an opportunity. But he is 20, 7-1, a good block,passer and shooter, and he was picked 2nd for a reason. 

So yeah, he is worth a lottery pick.


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## md6655321

ralaw said:


> You make some good points and I must agree. However, I think the Magic are looking to build a young nucleus around D. Howard and give the team to him. I still believe in Darko, so I am more excited about the trade than you. Yes, Dumars knows how to build a team and dealing with him makes me nervous because he has yet to make a bad deal.



If you want to be more nervous, most of Detroit thinks his two biggest (only?) mistakes are drafting Darko and trading for Arroyo. Haha. But really, both are good players who just dont fit the pistons. I think they fit the Magic very well.


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## char_renee

now i'm hearing knicks are targeting cato and francis
http://www.prosportsdaily.com/nba/magic/rumors.html


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## ATLien

Can Orlando's GM NOT make a bad move for once? Jeez.


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## JNice

TheATLien said:


> Can Orlando's GM NOT make a bad move for once? Jeez.


lol...

Lachlandwood ... I agree and disagree with you somewhat. If we trade Francis we are p brobably looking forward to at least lottery in 2006 and 2007. With this years draft being relatively weak and 2007s draft possibly being extremely strong, I'd much prefer that we lost that pick for this draft.

And I agree with what others have said ... Darko has proven absolutely nothing but still he really has not had much of a chance. It might not be the attitude you want but if you know almost no matter what you do you are looking at maybe 5 mpg then I would think it would be a little tough to get fired up and ready to go. He knows someone else will want him and is just waiting to get moved. He hasn't spent much time on the floor but I think his skills are fairly easy to see. All he needs to do is work a little harder and get a little tougher. That could come with a move and with aging ... considering he really is still very damned young.

For what it could be if Darko turns out, I'd say it is definitely worth the risk...


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## rainman

if they give up cato and a #1 in this draft this is a steal for the magic and thats even allowing for that pick to be the #1 pick. most likely that pick would be in the 5-7 range so ask yourself do the magic want shelden williams, jj redick, rodney carney(tell me when to stop) or do you want a 7-1 20 year old with the skill set of someone several inches shorter who will put people in the seats and combined with dwight howard could be the top 4/5 combo in the league for the next dozen years. trust me on this one this is a flat out no brainer.


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## Weasel

ESPN is reporting that the trade happened with the Magic getting Darko and Arroyo, not sure who the Magic give up though.


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## froggyvk

ESPNEWS HEADLINES
BREAKING NEWS
Darko Milicic'Dark' Magic
The Darko Milicic project in Detroit is over. The Pistons have traded the former No. 2 pick and Carlos Arroyo to the Magic, ESPN.com has learned.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/index


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## froggyvk

How many minutes do you think Darko will play for you this season? Kind of wish it wasn't the All-Star break so we could see what he can do right away. Hopefully he pans out for you, Howard and Darko is going to be great and very soon, but whatever Darko does do here I don't think he'd ever be able to do in Detroit, no matter what it is.


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## froggyvk

From RealGM:

ESPN - The Detroit Pistons traded forward Darko Milicic and point guard Carlos Arroyo to the Orlando Magic for Kelvin Cato and a *2007 first round pick,* ESPN.com has learned Wednesday. 

No protection I'm assuming, or Maybe Top 1/2.


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## JNice

..

I really hope that 2007 pick is protected somehow. There are too many potential studs for 2007.

This should make the rest of the season a little more interesting...

Francis, your next ... cya.


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## NR 1

This is good..I think Darko can show so much more in Orlando.


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## rainman

JNice said:


> ..
> 
> I really hope that 2007 pick is protected somehow. There are too many potential studs for 2007.
> 
> This should make the rest of the season a little more interesting...
> 
> Francis, your next ... cya.


the only stud you need to worry about in 07 is oden, others like mcroberts and durant arent in the same class as darko.


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## JNice

rainman said:


> the only stud you need to worry about in 07 is oden, others like mcroberts and durant arent in the same class as darko.



Well, I guess we'll see. Time to start proving something.

He should be getting probably at least 20 mpg this year.

I'd **** myself if Detroit ended up with Oden.


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## Duck

JNice said:


> ..
> 
> I really hope that 2007 pick is protected somehow. There are too many potential studs for 2007.
> 
> This should make the rest of the season a little more interesting...
> 
> *Francis, your next* ... cya.



My thoughts exactly.


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## JNice

Duck34234 said:


> My thoughts exactly.



His play lately has been pitiful. Comparable to Vince tanking in Toronto if you ask me. He's just running up and down the court.


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## froggyvk

Brian on the Pistons board says he heard pick is 1-5 protected in 07.


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## char_renee

this is a good trade i hope darko and Carlos A do good i'm pulling for them.


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## rainman

JNice said:


> Well, I guess we'll see. Time to start proving something.
> 
> He should be getting probably at least 20 mpg this year.
> 
> I'd **** myself if Detroit ended up with Oden.


i'm not trying to come across as being arrogant dont take it that way i just see this as a tremendous oppurtunity for darko and orlando, you have a big man who can face the basket and one who can play with his back to the basket, i doubt the pick would not be protected at least for the top pick so it isnt going to cost them a player like oden. heck what do the magic have to lose.


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## kawika

I do hope this works out for you guys, because the Magic have been, in many ways, a snakebit franchise. But...according to the link it is a 2007 first-rounder (no other details, so I assume it's Orlando's pick, full-stop. No protection, etc.) in which case I'm a little fearful and agree with the points Lachlanwood32 made. I'd add that other than Prince, Dumars' drafting record has been kinda spotty (Rodney White, Mateen Cleaves) whereas his trading acumen (Rip for Stackhouse and the deals that netted both Wallace's) seems pretty darn good. From the Magic's POV, in general I'm just not in favor of teams with poor records trading future, likely high picks, unless they're getting a real, proven star in return. I hated Atlanta's S & T for Joe Johnson not because I could foresee Diaw would be good, or because of the salary, but because of the picks involved. Same with the Knicks and Curry. 

Lastly, while I do respect the views of people who have seen him play and think Darko just needs the right circumstances for him to emerge, (though, md6655321, I think you're a little over the top in some your analysis, eg there are not 16 NBA teams on which Antonio McDyess would be a starter) there are very, very few guys, even ones that came into the league at age 18, who do nothing for 2 1/2 years and go on to become stars. I appreciate why people say he's going to an exception, and I really do hope, both for his sake and the Magic's that he will be, but I don't see this as being anywhere near the slam-dunk (or even low-risk) a lot of folks appear to be treating this as.


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## JNice

rainman said:


> i'm not trying to come across as being arrogant dont take it that way i just see this as a tremendous oppurtunity for darko and orlando, you have a big man who can face the basket and one who can play with his back to the basket, i doubt the pick would not be protected at least for the top pick so it isnt going to cost them a player like oden. heck what do the magic have to lose.



I love the deal ... and with Orlando's drafting history they'd pretty much have to get number 1 to make the right pick. Still ... if it is unprotected and by some out of space aberration the Pistons ended up with Oden .. I'd still **** myself.


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## kawika

I type very slowly, and now see where (apparently?) there is some 2007 protection involved, which is definitely better, if true. But even then, assuming you're not dealing away a super-high future pick is well, just that, an assumption. And I'm not yet sold enough on a positive future (other than Howard) for Orlando over the next 2-3 years to make that assumption. We shall see.


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## froggyvk

Great avatar JNice!


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## Odomiles

So... what will become of froggyvk's Official Darko fan club?


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## Enigma

JNice said:


> I love the deal ... and with Orlando's drafting history they'd pretty much have to get number 1 to make the right pick. Still ... if it is unprotected and by some out of space aberration the Pistons ended up with Oden .. I'd still **** myself.


So if the deal is a 2007 with top 5 protection, then unprotected in 2008, we wouldn't lose any shot at Oden, unless he stayed in college an extra year.


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## froggyvk

Odomiles said:


> So... what will become of froggyvk's Official Darko fan club?


Not accepting any new members.


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## bruno34115

Enigma said:


> So if the deal is a 2007 with top 5 protection, then unprotected in 2008, we wouldn't lose any shot at Oden, unless he stayed in college an extra year.


But you could potentially lose out on O.J. Mayo, though im certain this team will be a force by 08.


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## rainman

bruno34115 said:


> But you could potentially lose out on O.J. Mayo, though im certain this team will be a force by 08.


i'm going to go out on a limb and say darko milicic is better than o.j. mayo. what's next you're going to miss out on jj redick.


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## JNice

..

If Orlando can squeek into the playoffs for the 2007 season then this deal seems to be a real steal with little risk. Depending on what is done with Francis we've got a shot. Dwight will definitely be a major force by then.


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## JNice

..



> It's enough to make you forget that Darko is just 20 years old. That he's grown an inch and now stands at 7-1. That he's added 20 pounds of muscle and spent the last three years practicing against Ben Wallace on a daily basis.
> 
> Darko's story in Detroit might be over. But if all the scouts and GMs that loved Darko before the draft were right about him, then his career might be far from over.


Very long article by Chad Ford ... someone who actually did see Darko play but it is Insider.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&id=2332068 




> "That's a freak of nature right there," Dumars told me just minutes after the workout was over. "And he's just 17. Seventeen."
> 
> "We could really use him," Richard Hamilton said. "That kid can play. Too bad he can't suit up tonight."
> 
> Jon Barry agreed: "He'd be perfect for us. Perfect. The thing I like about kids like this is they only have one agenda, and that's to play. They take this job seriously. It's their way out of a bad situation, and they're not going to squander it."






> Meanwhile, right until the draft, Nuggets GM Kiki Vandeweghe was actively trying to swap picks with Detroit so that he could select Darko ahead of Carmelo.
> 
> All in all, about half of the GMs I talked to in the days leading up to the 2003 draft had Darko ranked No. 2 on their draft boards, behind LeBron. Everyone else I talked to had him third or fourth. No one I talked to had him ranked behind Wade.
> 
> USA Today's David Dupree wrote weeks before the 2003 draft that some NBA GMs told him they'd take Darko ahead of LeBron.


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## DTigre

Congrats on your new human victory cigar :biggrin:


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## UD40

I think Darko will come around in Orlando. Him and Dwight will be dominant down-low in the next few years. Now their point spot is deep(Francis, Carlos, Jameer, Travis), even though Franchise will probably be gone soon.

But I'm saying it right now, Darko will be a double-double player along with Dwight.


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## YoYoYoWasup

Considering the Magic have Dwight, I could care less if the pick ended up being Oden or not. Howard and Oden have similar games, so I fail to see how he would help us.


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## JNice

YoYoYoWasup said:


> Considering the Magic have Dwight, I could care less if the pick ended up being Oden or not. Howard and Oden have similar games, so I fail to see how he would help us.



Even if you don't want to keep him ... which it would be possible Orlando wouldn't, he'd still be a tremendous trading piece. I'd say a poor or middle of the road team would give up a star player in a heartbeat to pickup Oden.


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## froggyvk

JNice said:


> ..
> 
> 
> 
> Very long article by Chad Ford ... someone who actually did see Darko play but it is Insider.
> 
> http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&id=2332068


I had made a huge file with a whole bunch of Darko articles pre-draft...but I think I deleted it. Let me do a quick search though.

Yeah...it's gone. Too bad, you would have enjoyed it, tons of quality stuff in there.


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## YoYoYoWasup

JNice said:


> Even if you don't want to keep him ... which it would be possible Orlando wouldn't, he'd still be a tremendous trading piece. I'd say a poor or middle of the road team would give up a star player in a heartbeat to pickup Oden.


Sure, and if the Magic didn't have Dwight, I'd kill to get him, but they do have Dwight, so... Oden will be a tremendous player, but Howard is going to be phenomenal in before long. I like the Darko trade because they compliment each others games well. Since Francis will be gone before long, I hope Darko knows this is Dwight and Jameer's team, and plays accordingly.


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## JNice

..

I'd really like to see Orlando draft Redick. With Jameer's shooting he showed this year, Redick's shot, and Darko popping mid-range jumpers ... nobody will be able to double Dwight in the future. And Orlando needs a leader. Redick could be a leader. I wouldn't mind Morrison either. He's got a fire to him that we need on this team.


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## X-Factor

I'm excited by the recent youth movement we've made. I think we have something to look forward to, that will be exciting to watch develop through the years.


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## YoYoYoWasup

JNice said:


> ..
> 
> I'd really like to see Orlando draft Redick. With Jameer's shooting he showed this year, Redick's shot, and Darko popping mid-range jumpers ... nobody will be able to double Dwight in the future. And Orlando needs a leader. Redick could be a leader. I wouldn't mind Morrison either. He's got a fire to him that we need on this team.


I'm a little worried that Redick might be Trajon Langdon part deaux, but if he does pan out, he's a hell of a shooter. I think this could be a lot like the Kings situation in the late 90s or 2000s when they had Webber and Divac. If Darko actually plays well for Orlando and proves he isn't a bust, he could really help out. With his passing, Dwight could see his numbers go even higher than they are now.


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## X-Factor

JNice said:


> ..
> 
> I'd really like to see Orlando draft Redick. With Jameer's shooting he showed this year, Redick's shot, and Darko popping mid-range jumpers ... nobody will be able to double Dwight in the future. And Orlando needs a leader. Redick could be a leader. I wouldn't mind Morrison either. He's got a fire to him that we need on this team.



Dwight Darko Jameer Morrison and DeShawn (or whoever).

:allhail:


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## JNice

YoYoYoWasup said:


> I'm a little worried that Redick might be Trajon Langdon part deaux, but if he does pan out, he's a hell of a shooter. I think this could be a lot like the Kings situation in the late 90s or 2000s when they had Webber and Divac. If Darko actually plays well for Orlando and proves he isn't a bust, he could really help out. With his passing, Dwight could see his numbers go even higher than they are now.



I don't think Redick will be great ... but he'd have a field day from outside with Dwight inside and Darko if he develops into anything. Langdon was a good shooter but Redick might be the best shooter on the planet. I mean the guy just broke the record for 3s in a season and is probably going to end up being the best free throw shooter in the history of the NCAA. Obviously he's a world class shooter and his range extends pretty much out to halfcourt.

Redick has his pitfalls but he is playing against the best the NCAA has to offer and defenses focused to try to stop him and he's still scoring 30+ on a nightly basis. I'm no Duke fan but we could use some attitude like that Redick and Morrison have on this team. And good attitude, not the bad attitude like Francis.


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## ATLien

This makes me feel good. Now my team isn't the only team in the Southeastern Conference who traded away their weakly protected first rounder in the strongest draft in years. Whew.


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## WhoRocks

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_y...?slug=ap-pistons-magictrade&prov=ap&type=lgns



> If Orlando's first-round pick next year is No. 5 or better, the Magic will keep it. If it's not, the Pistons will acquire the Magic's 2008 first-round slot.


So let me get this straight, we keep our 2007 pick regardless of what happens?


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## Bron_Melo_ROY

I think its a good move, Darko couldn't buy minutes in Detroit and at least he'll be able to show what he can do in Orlando...Good trade so far, depends on where the pick falls


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## JNice

WhoRocks said:


> http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_y...?slug=ap-pistons-magictrade&prov=ap&type=lgns
> 
> 
> 
> So let me get this straight, we keep our 2007 pick regardless of what happens?


Otis Smith said our pick for the upcoming draft is ours... the next one is top 5 protected. After that, in 2008, no protection.


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## JNice

..

Terrence Morris has now been waived.


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## WhoRocks

JNice said:


> Otis Smith said our pick for the upcoming draft is ours... the next one is top 5 protected. After that, in 2008, no protection.


Oh ok, understood. Damn, yahoo confuses me more than an attractive transvestite; from the quote I posted above, it sounds like if our pick is outside the top 5 in 2007, Detroit would automatically inherit our 2008 pick, although that makes no sense. But in reality, if we're gonna suck in 2006-07, we better suck really _really_ badly.


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## JNice

WhoRocks said:


> Oh ok, understood. Damn, yahoo confuses me more than an attractive transvestite; from the quote I posted above, it sounds like if our pick is outside the top 5 in 2007, Detroit would automatically inherit our 2008 pick, although that makes no sense. But in reality, if we're gonna suck in 2006-07, we better suck really _really_ badly.



Yes ... sucking in 2006-2007 = good. Playoffs in 2007-2008 would be great.

So now we've traded Tmac, company, and a pick for Francis, Darko, and Arroyo. We'll see what Francis nets us.


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## Misfit

X-Factor said:


> I'm excited by the recent youth movement we've made. I think we have something to look forward to, that will be exciting to watch develop through the years.



Yeah...and one could only wonder if Orlando drafted Gerald Green instead of Vazquez :nonono: ohh well.


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## Babir

If only could have traded Steve now...


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## Steez

Man, if this trade goes through for you guys... Francis to NY for Trevor Ariza, then you guys are in VERY good condition. It all dependws on if Darko reaches all that potential put on him...

Imagine a line up looking like this in 5 years or so...

C - Dwight Howard
PF - Darko Milicic
SF - Trevor Ariza
SG - JJ Reddick
PG - Carlos Arroyo (or whoever)

Wow!
Good Luck Guys!


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## Avalanche

Steez said:


> Man, if this trade goes through for you guys... Francis to NY for Trevor Ariza, then you guys are in VERY good condition. It all dependws on if Darko reaches all that potential put on him...
> 
> Imagine a line up looking like this in 5 years or so...
> 
> C - Dwight Howard
> PF - Darko Milicic
> SF - Trevor Ariza
> SG - JJ Reddick
> PG - Carlos Arroyo (or whoever)
> 
> Wow!
> Good Luck Guys!


replace arroyo with nelson and you got a hell of a team


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## endora60

Babir said:


> If only could have traded Steve now...


I'm betting Francis finds a way--some way--to end up with the Clippers, especially if the Clips don't pick up Sam Cassell's extension. LA would be stupid not to give Sam what he wants, but they've been stupid forever, and you don't just stop being stupid in the space of one season.

Betcha the Clips refuse Cassell his extension, and he walks. That leaves only teenage sophomore Shawn Livingston at the point--which means they need a veteran point guard...like Steve Francis, whose attitude and effort would increase 100% if he's back in the same city with his friend Cuttino Mobley.

The Clips are pretty well-stocked at almost every position, so there's lots of trade bait there. I'm sure they'd be willing to take on a rejuvenated Francis. Two birds with one stone: They pick up an excellent point guard and they make Cat (who's important to them) happy. Meanwhile, the Magic undoubtedly pick up somebody or soembodies from LA who can fill some of the holes.

Laurie


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## lw32

bruno34115 said:


> But you could potentially lose out on O.J. Mayo, though im certain this team will be a force by 08.


Wouldn't count on it, with this franchises history we'll probably see Dwight leave in the future for the Lakers and the spotlight of Hollywood and the Lakers.

The only way I'm in favor of this trade is if A.) Darko actually works out (I'm skeptical) or B.) that draft pick is 16 or later in a weak draft.


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## lw32

Steez said:


> Man, if this trade goes through for you guys... Francis to NY for Trevor Ariza, then you guys are in VERY good condition. It all dependws on if Darko reaches all that potential put on him...
> 
> Imagine a line up looking like this in 5 years or so...
> 
> C - Dwight Howard
> PF - Darko Milicic
> SF - Trevor Ariza
> SG - JJ Reddick
> PG - Carlos Arroyo (or whoever)
> 
> Wow!
> Good Luck Guys!


Sorry to be blunt, but you were being sarcastic, right?

Right now that team sounds down right dreadful. Ariza has shown glimpses, nothing more. He's no Pippen. Milicic has shown little, Arroyo can't start for a quality team. Reddic is unproven. Howard's a beast. Sounds like perennial lottery team (aka Atlanta & the former Clippers)?


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## lw32

X-Factor said:


> I'm excited by the recent youth movement we've made. I think we have something to look forward to, that will be exciting to watch develop through the years.


It seems as though as Magic fans, we're in a constant state of excitement over the future talent. I'm pretty much use to scouting and talking about the next years draft in December nowadays. I'm also pretty much immune to poor draft selections, bad coaching, shocking trades and all the other pitfalls of the Magic Organization. You could say I'm ready to catch the next bandwagon out of here.


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## lw32

YoYoYoWasup said:


> Considering the Magic have Dwight, I could care less if the pick ended up being Oden or not. Howard and Oden have similar games, so I fail to see how he would help us.


A player of Oden's caliber would do little other than help. He's going to be a great player, and I'd love to see him and Dwight in the frontcourt together. Oden and Howard together would be similar to Robinson and Duncan, but younger and together for far longer most likely, and I never saw the Spurs complaining. I'd take it in a heart beat and never turn back. If the pick was to turn out to be Oden (which it definitely will not be with the protection), I don't know how the Magic could ever redeem themselves in my book.


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## ralaw

JNice said:


> ..
> 
> I'd really like to see Orlando draft Redick. With Jameer's shooting he showed this year, Redick's shot, and Darko popping mid-range jumpers ... nobody will be able to double Dwight in the future. And Orlando needs a leader. Redick could be a leader. I wouldn't mind Morrison either. He's got a fire to him that we need on this team.


Redick would compliment Howard to a "T", but my major concern is where he is drafted. I can see picking him outside of the top 8, but anywhere before that may be a reach for a player of Redick's calibur. On the other hand, Morrison has proven his ability to score from anywhere and his intensity would only wear off on the team as whole, and in my opinion a weak draft he may be the best pickup.


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## MLKG

Hey. Just so you guys are prepared for this. You are getting Darko, but not his Eddy Munster hair.










I've actually been lobbying for this for awhile. Now he just needs to throw on a headband.


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## lw32

Mike luvs KG said:


> Hey. Just so you guys are prepared for this. You are getting Darko, but not his Eddy Munster hair.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've actually been lobbying for this for awhile. Now he just needs to throw on a headband.


Darko gets so little playing time that I hadn't even realized he'd had a haircut to begin with. Guess I need to pay better attention now that he's with the Magic.


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## Benis007

I think that the Magic took a big gamble on trading the pick and Cato's expiring contract.

Do you see the Magic being active in the FA market this offseason?


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## ATLien

Misfit said:


> Yeah...and one could only wonder if Orlando drafted Gerald Green instead of Vazquez :nonono: ohh well.


Serious? Gerald Green looks like a huge bust to me..


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## Steez

Lachlanwood32 said:


> Sorry to be blunt, but you were being sarcastic, right?
> 
> Right now that team sounds down right dreadful. Ariza has shown glimpses, nothing more. He's no Pippen. Milicic has shown little, Arroyo can't start for a quality team. Reddic is unproven. Howard's a beast. Sounds like perennial lottery team (aka Atlanta & the former Clippers)?


Thats why I said in 5 years or when darko reaches his potential...

Howard is already a beast, Ariza in 5 years is gonna be very good... and when Darko reaches his potential... JJ Reddick will always have that shot, cuz he does have the confidence and Jameer Nelson or Arroyo running the point... you wont have any problems


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## Greg Ostertag!

Orlando probably have the best young nucleus in the league now with Howard, Nelson and Milicic, at least as far as ceiling is concerned. All you need to is some solid wings to complement those three, and you'll have a very successful future. JJ Redick, even as a 6th man, with a top 10 pick would be perfect.

Milicic
Howard
Hill
Stevenson
Nelson

Reddick
Arroyo
Turkoglu
Miscellaneous big men

I like it.


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## Scott

Misfit said:


> Yeah...and one could only wonder if Orlando drafted Gerald Green instead of Vazquez :nonono: ohh well.


I think Orlando should of drafted Danny Granger over Vazquez or Green as you say.
Granger would of been real nice as the future small forward. But as a Pacer fan I'm sure glad Orlando didn't draft him.


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## ralaw

Scott said:


> I think Orlando should of drafted Danny Granger over Vazquez or Green as you say.
> Granger would of been real nice as the future small forward. But as a Pacer fan I'm sure glad Orlando didn't draft him.


Don't even bring that up, I knew for sure he was going to Orlando....Oh well.


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## arenas809

YoYoYoWasup said:


> I'm a little worried that Redick might be Trajon Langdon part deaux.


Give this man a prize.

Look up Casey Jacobsen's college stats, that's why you don't go nuts over these system college players who put up numbers.

Redick's been in school 4 years because he hasn't been good enough to come out...


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## arenas809

YoYoYoWasup said:


> Considering the Magic have Dwight, I could care less if the pick ended up being Oden or not. Howard and Oden have similar games, so I fail to see how he would help us.


Well I agreed with you on Redick at least...

You've obviously never seen Oden play to make a statement like that.

Odom's a franchise savior, he could go to the Hawks and make them a playoff team instantly.

A Dwight Howard-Oden tandem would destroy the league for years, there isn't another team out there that could **** with that frontcourt.

Ultimately, I like this trade depending on what happens with that pick, and I think by this time next year the name on the back of Darko's jersey will read, "Beast".


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## alexander

I'm a big fan of the Serbian national team, and I can tell you that Milicić is way too better player than Krstić, you'll see that!

Don't be sceptic!


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## whiterhino

The Magic have a nice future core now they can add to. Darko will turn it around now that he's out of pergatory in Detroit.


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## JNice

arenas809 said:


> Ultimately, I like this trade depending on what happens with that pick, and I think by this time next year the name on the back of Darko's jersey will read, "Beast".



Well if you are right the pick probably won't matter. If Darko even comes close to reaching the potential everyone thought he had him and Dwight should be dominating the Eastern Conf in no time.


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## Mr. Hobbes

Mike luvs KG said:


> Hey. Just so you guys are prepared for this. You are getting Darko, but not his Eddy Munster hair.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've actually been lobbying for this for awhile. Now he just needs to throw on a headband.


Whoa.


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## Mr. Hobbes

TheATLien said:


> Serious? Gerald Green looks like a huge bust to me..


That's just speculation.


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## JT3000

arenas809 said:


> Odom's a franchise savior, he could go to the Hawks and make them a playoff team instantly.


 :raised_ey


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## Bron_Melo_ROY

In all seriousness, I hope Darko can turn it around and live up to at least 1/2 of the hype. Could you imagine the hi-lo they could run with Darko and Dwight...Please Darko, please come around.


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## Misfit

TheATLien said:


> Serious? Gerald Green looks like a huge bust to me..


Yeah I know...the guy is averaging 3 minutes a game.How the hell is he not putting up 20 a game, :no: what a waste of talent.

But back to the subject.I think the Magic would be better off sending out Francis for expiring contracts instead of trying to pick up equal talent.Take your chances in the FA market, I mean who wouldn't want to play on a team that has Howard,Nelson and a lottery pick in this years draft.


----------

