# Rockets benefit from referee bias, Lakers lose



## koberules24 (Nov 12, 2006)

As if Yao Ming getting over 20 foul shots wasn't enough (in a NON-FIXED GAME Centers don't get over 20 fouls shots) the referees got their wish with ridiculous foul call after call. I wonder if Tracy McGrady or Yao Ming will get suspended for their "Offensive shot defense" in knocking Kobe down (or the instances in which Kobe was smacked in the face over the last two games). Surprising, I seem to remember a play just a few minutes before in which Ronny Turiaf was called for the same hold and shove, only he didn't sandwich someone and knock them to the ground. Once again the referees are the MVP for their favorite team: whoever the Lakers opponent is.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

No sense in blaming the referees, man.


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## koberules24 (Nov 12, 2006)

Basel57 said:


> No sense in blaming the referees, man.


I'm sorry did you watch the game?


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## Eternal (Sep 7, 2005)

Ew, don't blame the refs, like Basel said. This was simply won and lost by Kobe. Lakers had it in the bag towards end of OT, and Kobe simply made some bad decisions.


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## koberules24 (Nov 12, 2006)

The referees have already proven they can single handedly win a championship for teams, just ask the Miami Heat.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

koberules24 said:


> I'm sorry did you watch the game?


As a matter of fact, yes, I did. And here it is one more time...



Basel57 said:


> No sense in blaming the referees, man.


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## Eternal (Sep 7, 2005)

koberules24 said:


> The referees have already proven they can single handedly win a championship for teams, just ask the Miami Heat.


Let's not change the subject now. This game wasn't decided by the referees. Just a bad game to lose...


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## koberules24 (Nov 12, 2006)

Eternal said:


> Ew, don't blame the refs, like Basel said. This was simply won and lost by Kobe. Lakers had it in the bag towards end of OT, and Kobe simply made some bad decisions.


What is with you guys blaming Kobe for everything? He's single handedly saved this team from a certain last place finish. What is wrong with you people? One day you guys are regret ****ting all over Kobe.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

You know, the Rockets only got 3 more foul shots than us. They had 41 to our 38.

They made 36 of their 41, which equals out to 88%.
We made 27 of our 38, which equals out to 71%.

We didn't lose because of the referees. End of story.


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## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

Refs suck they always do but the didn't cost us the game giving up a 4 pt lead with less than a minute did. 

Kobe is just doing to much for us.


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## Eternal (Sep 7, 2005)

koberules24 said:


> What is with you guys blaming Kobe for everything? He's single handedly saved this team from a certain last place finish. What is wrong with you people? One day you guys are regret ****ting all over Kobe.


Sorry, I'm not a homer. I will say when Kobe does something wrong. I'm not going to sit there and say Kobe had a terrific game, because he was off tonight. He happened to catch fire towards then end, then make costly makes at the end of overtime.

I love Kobe Bryant, but I can't sit there and lie to myself, saying nothing is his fault.


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## OneBadLT123 (Oct 4, 2005)

Ref's favoring Yao? Yeah right. When hell freezes over.

Yao by far always, his whole career, has been called with the WORST fouls ever.

As amazing as this game was, Kobe lost this game for you. The rest of the team always seemd to just stand around and wait for Kobe to do this, or that.


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## Bartholomew Hunt (Mar 4, 2003)

Eternal said:


> Sorry, I'm not a homer. I will say when Kobe does something wrong. I'm not going to sit there and say Kobe had a terrific game, because he was off tonight. He happened to catch fire towards then end, then make costly makes at the end of overtime.
> 
> I love Kobe Bryant, but I can't sit there and lie to myself, saying nothing is his fault.


Agreed.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

koberules24 said:


> What is with you guys blaming Kobe for everything? He's single handedly saved this team from a certain last place finish. What is wrong with you people? One day you guys are regret ****ting all over Kobe.


We're not. Tonight, he cost us the game at the end. It's that simple. He started off great, then played horrible, then caught fire, then finished bad. We're allowed to criticize Kobe. We're not blaming him for everything, but when you take 44 shots in a game (even if many of those shots brought us back into the game and almost won it for us) and the next closest shot attempts was 9 by Lamar Odom, then something is wrong.


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## Bartholomew Hunt (Mar 4, 2003)

Basel57 said:


> We're not. Tonight, he cost us the game at the end. It's that simple. He started off great, then played horrible, then caught fire, then finished bad. We're allowed to criticize Kobe. We're not blaming him for everything, but when you take 44 shots in a game (even if many of those shots brought us back into the game and almost won it for us) and the next closest shot attempts was 9 by Lamar Odom, then something is wrong.


Also agreed.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

By the way, the Lakers shot 88 times tonight. Kobe had 44 of those. That cannot happen.


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## BlackNRed (Feb 9, 2005)

koberules24 said:


> The referees have already proven they can single handedly win a championship for teams, just ask the Miami Heat.


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## Pimped Out (May 4, 2005)

if bynum, brown, and turiaf would have stopped pushing yao, maybe he would have gone to the line less


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## Eternal (Sep 7, 2005)

Pimped Out said:


> if bynum, brown, and turiaf would have stopped pushing yao, maybe he would have gone to the line less


Yep. I really don't recall a time where he wasn't fouled, when they called a foul on the Lakers.


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## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

Basel57 said:


> We're not. Tonight, he cost us the game at the end. It's that simple. He started off great, then played horrible, then caught fire, then finished bad. We're allowed to criticize Kobe. We're not blaming him for everything, but when you take 44 shots in a game (even if many of those shots brought us back into the game and almost won it for us) and the next closest shot attempts was 9 by Lamar Odom, then something is wrong.


I'll tell you whats wrong that a team of soft *** teammates allowed him to take 44 shots. Everyone gets paid why don't they take shots is Kobe gonna beat them up, it looked to me that everyone wants just giving him the ball over and over and over again. 

Odom is the biggest joke and waste of talent, he allows himself to take 9 shots, where's his basketabll arrogance, where's the Kobe shoots to much crticism by teammates, they just fall in line like puppy dogs and thats Kobe's fault for not allowing a professional to take shots. 

Kobe's an alpha male he takes what he wants, when he played with the title winning crew them other guys told Kobe to pass, called him out, in the games they took shots and moved the ball away from him.

But this bunch of guys just falls back and allows him to just dominate everything. 

Kobe's mistakes at the end cost us the game. His cold strak in the middle didn't, when he went out of the game we weren't even catching up in the 1st half. 

More balls from some other guys would make us a better team. 

I would like the other citizens to challenge dictator Kobe. maybe he'd actually loosen up the grip on the ball. 

But if you wanna watch spread the wealth ball hold on for another 7 game losing streak remember that when Kobe was sharing.


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## Eternal (Sep 7, 2005)

jazzy1 said:


> I'll tell you whats wrong that a team of soft *** teammates allowed him to take 44 shots. Everyone gets paid why don't they take shots is Kobe gonna beat them up, it looked to me that everyone wants just giving him the ball over and over and over again.
> 
> Odom is the biggest joke and waste of talent, he allows himself to take 9 shots, where's his basketabll arrogance, where's the Kobe shoots to much crticism by teammates, they just fall in line like puppy dogs and thats Kobe's fault for not allowing a professional to take shots.
> 
> ...


Remember Odom and Walton weren't there during that 7 game losing streak until the 7th loss. I'm sure that has more to do with the Lakers winning then anything.

Also note... Odom had 16 FTA, so he really had more attempts then 9. He just had a bad free throw shooting night.


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## Pimped Out (May 4, 2005)

Eternal said:


> Yep. I really don't recall a time where he wasn't fouled, when they called a foul on the Lakers.


i think people got so used to defenders being allowed to push and grab yao while he is shooting, that when they actually call it now they see it as preferential treatment. i saw clippers fans complaining about yao getting star treatment too.

he doesnt get away with a whole lot on D either. about as much as anyone. i think dikembe gets away with a lot more grabbing and holding his man while he goes for the block


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## Eternal (Sep 7, 2005)

Pimped Out said:


> i think people got so used to defenders being allowed to push and grab yao while he is shooting, that when they actually call it now they see it as preferential treatment. i saw clippers fans complaining about yao getting star treatment too.
> 
> he doesnt get away with a whole lot on D either. about as much as anyone. i think dikembe gets away with a lot more grabbing and holding his man while he goes for the block


Agree. I also agree with the Dikembe comment.


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## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

Eternal said:


> Remember Odom and Walton weren't there during that 7 game losing streak until the 7th loss. I'm sure that has more to do with the Lakers winning then anything.
> 
> Also note... Odom had 16 FTA, so he really had more attempts then 9. He just had a bad free throw shooting night.


I'm not talking about who was there I'm speaking on the notion that Kobe passing is most beneficial. 

I liked the defense tonight but then again LVG is one of the worst coaches when it comes to designing offensive sets. 

Odom and crew just allow Kobe to do what he wants alittle backbone might tip the scales.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

I don't think it's just that they're allowing him to do it. Part of it, I'm sure, is Phil Jackson giving him the green light to shoot it. But part of it, tonight anyway, looked like it was just Kobe trying to take over the game without giving anyone else a chance. If he had the ball, he didn't even look to pass the ball, and I don't blame that on his teammates. He even went as far as taking a left handed hook shot in the lane over Yao Ming, and missing badly. He was double teamed many times but would still force a shot up, and that was just his mindset tonight. 

The Lakers tonight were either going to live or die with what Kobe did, and tonight, they "died."


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## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

Basel57 said:


> I don't think it's just that they're allowing him to do it. Part of it, I'm sure, is Phil Jackson giving him the green light to shoot it. But part of it, tonight anyway, looked like it was just Kobe trying to take over the game without giving anyone else a chance. If he had the ball, he didn't even look to pass the ball, and I don't blame that on his teammates. He even went as far as taking a left handed hook shot in the lane over Yao Ming, and missing badly. He was double teamed many times but would still force a shot up, and that was just his mindset tonight.
> 
> The Lakers tonight were either going to live or die with what Kobe did, and tonight, they "died."


Yeah some of it is PJ but come on man how many times did walton miss when he passed or Smush miss or odom miss and kwame miss. 

They don't play agressive enough and Kobe's too competitive to just facillitate and allow the team to lose. If not for the mindlocks late we would have beaten a very good Rockets team. We should have gotten blown off the floor really but we hung in there with tough defense and Kobe making shot after shot late. 

Tough loss but the other guys have got to look for their own games more often. 

Walton was the guy who really didn't do anything tonight.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

It wasn't just miss, miss, miss for the others.

Smush was 4/7 from the field. 
Kwame was 5/8 from the field.
Turiaf was 3/6 from the field.


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## Bartholomew Hunt (Mar 4, 2003)

jazzy is right though. The other guys need to have the cojones to ignore Kobe when he is chasing down the ball every possession.


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## Eternal (Sep 7, 2005)

jazzy1 said:


> I'm not talking about who was there I'm speaking on the notion that Kobe passing is most beneficial.
> 
> I liked the defense tonight but then again LVG is one of the worst coaches when it comes to designing offensive sets.
> 
> Odom and crew just allow Kobe to do what he wants alittle backbone might tip the scales.


I agree completely with you on the part of others needing to step up, and ignore Kobe when he wants the ball everytime (like BH said). They were shooting the ball it seems pretty well.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

They need to at times, yes, but they won't.


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## Yao Mania (Aug 4, 2003)

Much respect to the Laker fans around here for seeing things with open eyes (well, aside from the thread starter...)

Kobe or not, 44 shots in a game where you're shooting under 50% is not acceptable. From this game alone you can see that T-Mac and Kobe have turned into 2 completely different players.


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## Eternal (Sep 7, 2005)

Basel57 said:


> They need to at times, yes, but they won't.


Well according to Odom (was prior to this game)... he is going to.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

Odom said he'll take more shots...but doesn't mean he won't give up the ball to Kobe more so.


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## Eternal (Sep 7, 2005)

Basel57 said:


> Odom said he'll take more shots...but doesn't mean he won't give up the ball to Kobe more so.


lol, yep.


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## maximf (May 5, 2006)

Yao Mania said:


> From this game alone you can see that T-Mac and Kobe have turned into 2 completely different players.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: 

yup... 2 completley diffrent player, T-Mac is an overated shooter who will never win a title, while kobe is a player who will take the title the second he will have normal team.

Currently T-mac is not even among the top 5 guards in the league


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## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

Yao Mania said:


> Much respect to the Laker fans around here for seeing things with open eyes (well, aside from the thread starter...)
> 
> Kobe or not, 44 shots in a game where you're shooting under 50% is not acceptable. From this game alone you can see that T-Mac and Kobe have turned into 2 completely different players.



I agree with you on the fact that the ref conspriacey thing is old and lame. Although normally they do not call that travelling in 99 percent of the games, he DID travel so it wasnt a bad call. Just not the ususal for a superstar in the final seconds of the game.

However, the 44 shots might not please you but in reality the stats dont lie. This team is pathetic when Kobe isnt shooting. Doesent even matter if heis having an off night, it seems like they cant win unless he is jacking up the majority of shots and remaining aggressive on the offense. If Kobe had a team like the Rockets, his need to jack up 44 shots wouldnt exist. Plan and simple.

The only differencebetween Kobe and T-mac, is one still plays like a young man, the other plays like an old one.


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## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

jazzy1 said:


> Odom is the biggest joke and waste of talent


I just vommited after reading your post. How someone could defend Kwame Brown so much, and then call Odom a big joke and waste of talent, just frankly disturbs me...


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## PriceIsWright (Oct 11, 2006)

maximf said:


> :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
> 
> yup... 2 completley diffrent player, T-Mac is an overated shooter who will never win a title, while kobe is a player who will take the title the second he will have normal team.
> 
> Currently T-mac is not even among the top 5 guards in the league


okay


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## hroz (Mar 4, 2006)

maximf said:


> :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
> 
> yup... 2 completley diffrent player, T-Mac is an overated shooter who will never win a title, while kobe is a player who will take the title the second he will have normal team.
> 
> Currently T-mac is not even among the top 5 guards in the league


Umm you do realise he racked up ten assists right?????????
And you do remember that 2+ month strecth when Yao was injured right? When he showed what he can do and that is average 30+ppg and keeping the Rockets in the top 6 teams in the league. Which he did in the time Yao was out. 
But with Yao out the Rockets need both players being a threat offensively and that is what is going on. So TMAC has added playmaking to his repotoire. 
PS in most MVP races he seems to appear at 5th at the moment. Behind Kobe Dirk Nash LeBron.(though Duncan always improves come April)

PS and that title comment. He might not win a *scoring* title again but a real title he is a threat for.


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

Pimped Out said:


> i think people got so used to defenders being allowed to push and grab yao while he is shooting, that when they actually call it now they see it as preferential treatment. i saw clippers fans complaining about yao getting star treatment too.
> 
> he doesnt get away with a whole lot on D either. about as much as anyone. i think dikembe gets away with a lot more grabbing and holding his man while he goes for the block



kind of off topic, but i had to clear something up...it wasn't the treatment of yao that got us pissed...it was the blown call at the end of the game...you know, the call where mobley was given two free throws for a shot he was fouled on *behind* the arc...


now back on topic...i think the laker/rockets game was called fairly, kobe just shouldn't have traveled...


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## Theonee (Dec 5, 2006)

I am one of the biggest Kobe fan and usually I defend him, but I can't defend him against Houston. He singlehandedly lost the game for the lakers.
First he dug a huge jole in the team by taking every shot, then somehow, he miraculously forced OT, then towards the ends of OT, he committed two costly mistakes and sealed the deal.
The lakers free throws are terrible too, I think the Lakers might have lost atleast 10 games this season because of their bad free throws shooting. Kobe is the only guy who can hit free throws. When it comes to free throws, it is like Kobe is playing with 15 Shaqs.


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## Bartholomew Hunt (Mar 4, 2003)

Theonee said:


> The lakers free throws are terrible too, I think the Lakers might have lost atleast 10 games this season because of their bad free throws shooting. Kobe is the only guy who can hit free throws. When it comes to free throws, it is like Kobe is playing with 15 Shaqs.


No kidding. We have some serious clanksters on this team. It is unbelievably frustrating when this team bricks free throws in the clutch.


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## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

CDRacingZX6R said:


> I just vommited after reading your post. How someone could defend Kwame Brown so much, and then call Odom a big joke and waste of talent, just frankly disturbs me...


Kwame does not have Superstar talent, he's a defensive minded banger with some low post offense. Lamar could be easily as good as Dirk. He's has all the tools yet he's always mired in timid play with flashes of brillance. he's a total waste far too often. 

Its all mental with him he has to be prodded to perform, he hasn't improved an ounce in 5 years when he should have been an allstar 2-3 times already. hell Butler and jamison have been allstars and Odom has more talent than either of them. 

So vomit on that.


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## Pimped Out (May 4, 2005)

bootstrenf said:


> kind of off topic, but i had to clear something up...it wasn't the treatment of yao that got us pissed...it was the blown call at the end of the game...you know, the call where mobley was given two free throws for a shot he was fouled on *behind* the arc...
> 
> 
> now back on topic...i think the laker/rockets game was called fairly, kobe just shouldn't have traveled...


"even in the clip where he goes in for the layup against yao, he fell because yao bodied him up...if elton bodied yao, you know it would've been and-1..."


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## KDOS (Nov 29, 2005)

jazzy1 said:


> Lamar could be easily as good as Dirk. He's has all the tools yet he's always mired in timid play with flashes of brillance. he's a total waste far too often.
> 
> Its all mental with him he has to be prodded to perform, he hasn't improved an ounce in 5 years when he should have been an allstar 2-3 times already.



Funny how you explained Lamar's deficiency, but you seem to fail to notice the irony of their striking similarity, both players are fragile, with a few laps away from setting their mentality in the right path for improvement.

Kwame could be as good as Amare, for one I think Kwame with Nash could help Brown elevate his game, Brown was surrounded by scorers (MJ,RiP,Stack,Gilbert,Kobe), never had the chance to explore other options. Nevr had a guard that instictively creates for his teammates. Mind you, Kwame gives you these flashes of brilliance like dropping 15 and 9, all while having a superb defensive job only to play like Desagna Diop the next game.


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## The One (Jul 10, 2005)

Time for me to clear up the discussion as usual before posters begin killing each other for what they do or do not believe in .

*1. Kobe shot alot last night:* Bad shooting team or not, 44 shots is way too many - Kobe should never take more than 30 shots IMO.

*2. Please Think Before Venting:* If any of you are now quick to crucify Bryant, Stop! Kobe has been consistent the entire season with his mindset - being Phil Jacksons puppet. Phil told Kobe to shoot less so he did; Phil told him to shoot more and he did. Kobe will not shoot any less now unless Phil tells him so and I'm quite sure Kobe will not hesitate to listen to Phil and change his game if Phil told him to slow down now. But from Phil's reaction to the loss, I don't think he feels the problem is Kobe's shooting. So right now the team's success is at the mercy of Phils leash on Kobe.

*3. Lay off Lamar Odom:* Odoms is scoring less right now because Kobe is shooting more(duh). Before Phil gave Kobe the green light, Odom was scoring close to 22 points per game. Now, since his scoring is down, Odom has become a rebounding beast which is very usefull for he team. How do the think the Lakers will do missing 16 rebounds a game that Odom is bringing?

That is all.

Let's just wiat for the next Lakers game and watch it religiously like we all do

GO LAKERS!!!!


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## koberules24 (Nov 12, 2006)

Eternal said:


> Sorry, I'm not a homer. I will say when Kobe does something wrong. I'm not going to sit there and say Kobe had a terrific game, because he was off tonight. He happened to catch fire towards then end, then make costly makes at the end of overtime.
> 
> I love Kobe Bryant, but I can't sit there and lie to myself, saying nothing is his fault.


You call 53 points an off night? There's a difference between knowing when to be critical and just being ungrateful.


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## koberules24 (Nov 12, 2006)

Basel57 said:


> We're not. Tonight, he cost us the game at the end. It's that simple. He started off great, then played horrible, then caught fire, then finished bad. We're allowed to criticize Kobe. We're not blaming him for everything, but when you take 44 shots in a game (even if many of those shots brought us back into the game and almost won it for us) and the next closest shot attempts was 9 by Lamar Odom, then something is wrong.


You guys need to lay off the Koolade and stop being ungrateful idiots. You guys are crazy. Enough said.


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## KDOS (Nov 29, 2005)

koberules24 said:


> You call 53 points an off night? There's a difference between knowing when to be critical and just being ungrateful.


Dont be surprised or upset brother, people were down and disappointed when Kobe only had 43 pts on a win after torching the previous 4 teams with 50+ pt games.


Kobe set the bar way too high, to the point where he's not allowed to be human once in a while


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## koberules24 (Nov 12, 2006)

Yao Mania said:


> Much respect to the Laker fans around here for seeing things with open eyes (well, aside from the thread starter...)
> 
> Kobe or not, 44 shots in a game where you're shooting under 50% is not acceptable. From this game alone you can see that T-Mac and Kobe have turned into 2 completely different players.


_How dare that ******* Kobe steal the ball from his "Oh so talented teammates"?_ And you're right they have turned into two completely different players: One's the best player in the league and one's an overrated injury prone player. Great observation.


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## KDOS (Nov 29, 2005)

Yeah 2 different players, Kobe turning up the notch when the team needs him, while TMac can escape the horrendoues fact of shooting 7/24 because he has a big man that can make people forget his performance.

Two different players indeed.


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## koberules24 (Nov 12, 2006)

Heated said:


>


Or I can cry like Dwhine Wade when he gets hurt.


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## koberules24 (Nov 12, 2006)

Basel57 said:


> It wasn't just miss, miss, miss for the others.
> 
> Smush was 4/7 from the field.
> Kwame was 5/8 from the field.
> Turiaf was 3/6 from the field.


Yeah, you're right it was: Don't try, Don't try, Don't try we'll just throw Kobe under the bus for the other players.


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## KDOS (Nov 29, 2005)

Britney's hot, id hit it still even when shes bald.


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## koberules24 (Nov 12, 2006)

KOBEDUNKEDONSHAQ said:


> Britney's hot, id hit it still even when shes bald.


Yeah, only problem is that trailer trash whores rarely use birth control.


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## KDOS (Nov 29, 2005)

koberules24 said:


> Yeah, only problem is that trailer trash whores rarely use birth control.


:lol: 

Dude you'd be set fo life like K-Fed. Imagine being able to finally afford courtside season tickets and chat with Jack Nicholson and tell him how good his performance was as Joker. Imagine being close enough for Kwame to hear you, when you yell " hey cakeboy, catch the bleeping ball. Imagine being close enough to hear Bynum cursing at Vujacic for not giving the effing ball. Man, that would be awesome.


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## hroz (Mar 4, 2006)

*One's the best player in the league and one's an overrated injury prone player. Great observation.*

Ummm TMAC has done the whole I have to do everything thing at the Magic he seems to prefer the one two punch he has with Yao. 
Definately since Yao has come back the cohesion has not been perfect but its like nobody remembers the TMAC of just a month ago????? Anyone????


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## BlackNRed (Feb 9, 2005)

koberules24 said:


> Or I can cry like Dwhine Wade when he gets hurt.


:lol: 

Considering your thread, that's what you are doing. Except you're not hurt.. unless maybe you broke a nail typing that homer-otic mess.

Don't you find it strange none of your fellow Laker fans support your claim of "ref bias?" and for good reason.


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## koberules24 (Nov 12, 2006)

Heated said:


> :lol:
> 
> Considering your thread, that's what you are doing. Except you're not hurt.. unless maybe you broke a nail typing that homer-otic mess.
> 
> Don't you find it strange none of your fellow Laker fans support your claim of "ref bias?" and for good reason.


That's because they find it easier to blame Kobe. That's been the course of action for all disgruntled Laker fans for the past three years. The Lakers lose in the playoffs-- it must be Kobe's fault. All the other players on the team suck-- it's Kobe again. "That evil man is conspiring to hog the ball". Kobe saves the Lakers time after time in the Houston game and every other game this season but god forbid finally misses a shot while being guarded by all the other players on the court---it's Kobe's fault alright. It's one thing to play a game like that and lose by a couple points knowing you played your heart out but to lose off of two RIDICULOUS calls (Yes, like the one's you guys repeatedly enjoyed with Dwyane Wade in the Finals) then NATURALLY you're a little pissed off. Don't you find it strange that the majority of the sports fans in this country think the Miami Heat didn't win their championship fairly?


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## Eternal (Sep 7, 2005)

koberules24 said:


> That's because they find it easier to blame Kobe. That's been the course of action for all disgruntled Laker fans for the past three years. The Lakers lose in the playoffs-- it must be Kobe's fault. All the other players on the team suck-- it's Kobe again. "That evil man is conspiring to hog the ball". Kobe saves the Lakers time after time in the Houston game and every other game this season but god forbid finally misses a shot while being guarded by all the other players on the court---it's Kobe's fault alright. It's one thing to play a game like that and lose by a couple points knowing you played your heart out but to lose off of two RIDICULOUS calls (Yes, like the one's you guys repeatedly enjoyed with Dwyane Wade in the Finals) then NATURALLY you're a little pissed off. Don't you find it strange that the majority of the sports fans in this country think the Miami Heat didn't win their championship fairly?


Which Laker fans are blaming Kobe for all the Lakers misery?.... We said he had a bad game, and now we blame him for everything?... Come on now. It's unrealistic if you think Kobe is perfect at everything... he's human. Is there some rule now where we can't criticize Kobe, or we get flamed for it?

Where did you come up with this information, that the majority of the country didn't think the Heat won it fair and square? 

Please list facts, and proof to back it up, before you say something so crazy.


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## Eternal (Sep 7, 2005)

koberules24 said:


> You call 53 points an off night? There's a difference between knowing when to be critical and just being ungrateful.


Yes.. he scored 53, but look at how many shots he took in order to get that 53. Wasn't a very efficient game by no means. He almost took as many shots as he had points. The worst part is... the other Lakers seemed to be shooting fairly well.

It was a off night for Kobe, plain and simple.


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## BlackNRed (Feb 9, 2005)

koberules24 said:


> That's because they find it easier to blame Kobe. That's been the course of action for all disgruntled Laker fans for the past three years. The Lakers lose in the playoffs-- it must be Kobe's fault. All the other players on the team suck-- it's Kobe again. "That evil man is conspiring to hog the ball". Kobe saves the Lakers time after time in the Houston game and every other game this season but god forbid finally misses a shot while being guarded by all the other players on the court---it's Kobe's fault alright. It's one thing to play a game like that and lose by a couple points knowing you played your heart out but to lose off of two RIDICULOUS calls (Yes, like the one's you guys repeatedly enjoyed with Dwyane Wade in the Finals) then NATURALLY you're a little pissed off.


I've noticed the exact opposite. I don't see many Lakers fans that aren't obsessed with Kobe. Just because Kobe is a great player doesn't mean he can do no wrong. You're oblivous to that fact, and suspect that anyone who criticizes Kobe for mistakes is just being "ungrateful." He makes mistakes, just like every other player. You'd rather cry "conspiracy" rather than admit that Kobe turned the ball over and commited a stupid foul on a 3 point shot? That's logical. Take your yellow and purple glasses off and realize that (most) Laker fans don't use Kobe as a scape goat, they just realize he's human. I'd also be willing to bet that a lot of Laker fans are concerned with the lack of an involvement for the rest of the squad. I don't care how good of player Kobe is, he's not going to shoot his way to a championship on his own. 



> Don't you find it strange that the majority of the sports fans in this country think the Miami Heat didn't win their championship fairly


Did you take a poll or something? Where'd you get that information. I don't think a handful of people on bbf consist of the majority of sports fans in this country, let alone basketball fans. But boy do I love you conspiracy theorists!


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## Yao Mania (Aug 4, 2003)

uhm, guys, let me clarify my "2 completely different players" comment:

Kobe is THE option for the Lakers. The team now lives and dies on his scoring production. He's clearly the best in the league right now individually, and I give him all the credit in the world for that (posters around here should know I've become a big supporter of the Mamba).

T-Mac CAN still rise up when the occassion calls for (as seen during Yao's absence), but he's taken on the role of the distributor, try setting up teammates instead of taking over games himself. The result is that Houston is better off as a team, and our role guys are involved with the team execution.

Result? Kobe's now a scoring machine, and T-Mac's averaging a career high in assists. So you guys can stop attacking T-Mac now to defend your beloved Kobe.










Look at 'em lovebirds.


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## The Lake Show (Jun 29, 2006)

lol, nice picture. 

i agree, tmac has definitely changed his game and let the ball run through the middle now. if you have a legit big man, that is the way to go.


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## koberules24 (Nov 12, 2006)

*edit* _"Oh my god look how many shots he took to get 53 points, lord knows we'd be much better if he left all the shooting to Kwame Brown and Smush Parker_. All you guys have done during this thread is blame for the Lakers loss (look at your posts).* Would you rather Smush Parker took that game ending shot--yeah, we all saw how active they were in trying to get open (they practically stood there). And we all remember how efficient Smush was the other night when the game was put in his hands. So who else could of taken these shots? Kwame Brown? Lamar Odom--who can't shoot right now and wouldn't even if he could?* These team including the players are completely reliant on Kobe. If you even read his interviews you would hear what he complains about when his teammates say: "Come on Kobe get us 100". He in turn says "You know I've been carrying you guys all game, why don't you join the party?". His teammates get countless open looks, only to miss them. Blaming your franchise player for all of the Lakers woes (OR WHENEVER IT'S CONVENIENT) when he does everything he can to help is not smart at all, ESPECIALLY IF YOU WANT THAT FRANCHISE PLAYER TO STAY WITH THE TEAM LONG ENOUGH TO WIN A CHAMPIONSHIP---ANY OTHER PLAYER WOULD HAVE DEMANDED TO BE TRADED BY NOW!

<font color="purple">*No name calling.*</font>


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## koberules24 (Nov 12, 2006)

And yeah, in case you haven't noticed (or you refuse to notice) NOBODY THINKS THE HEAT WON THE CHAMPIONSHIP FAIR AND SQUARE! Here's what I'll have you do you can go around to every blog or city (Miami Heat fans are not a reliable source) and ask them whether they thought the ridiculous calls that were made in that series had a profound impact on those final games (considering Dallas completely dominated the first half of the series). Nobody in their right mind in the media or at a news outlet would actually ask if they thought the Miami Heat won fairly because they are too marketable of a team. Why **** on their parade when you can make money off them? You think the NBA would be able to successfully launch advertising campaigns with Erik Dampier or even Dirk Nowitzki. This league is all about about perceived image--that has been the *****ing point of David Stern for the past five years (Why do think he was so happy to see LeBron enter the league?). You can denounce it as conspiracy talk all you want but the mere fact that anybody is able to have this discussion or debate proves my point. I am not a Dallas Mavericks fan and as a Laker fan I had virtually no reason to root against the Heat.
Here's a list of some of the former Lakers who are affiliated with the Heat
Pat Riley
Shaquille O'Neal
Gary Payton
Randy Pfund (their General Manager)


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

Man, you're looking like a fool right now. Stop being so angry, and understand that it's okay for us to criticize Kobe. He is not a perfect basketball player.


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## Eternal (Sep 7, 2005)

Basel57 said:


> Man, you're looking like a fool right now. Stop being so angry, and understand that it's okay for us to criticize Kobe. He is not a perfect basketball player.


Agreed.


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## BlackNRed (Feb 9, 2005)

koberulez are you hijacking your own thread to debate whether or not the heat won the title fairly? Or are you changing the subject after realizing how foolish your thread is?

Let me explain this for you, and i'll keep it real simple. As far as the series in its entirety, the Mavs got plenty of calls. But nobody remembers the entire game(s), they focus on the closing moments of the games (where they're decided) and see that Miami got the majority of the calls there. Again, real simple. Miami's entire offense is built on paint dominance, thus they're always going hard to the rack, specifically Wade. On the flip side, you have a team that loves their jump shot. And a jump shooting team isn't going to get very many calls. It's really pretty simple stuff.

So I say, find me a video, an article, anything that supports you claim that Miami didn't win a fair series, Otherwise it's just sour grapes. You don't have to be a Mavs fan to have sour grapes. Nobody likes a champion, except the champion, it's nothing new.

If you'd like to continue with this feel free to PM me, we're on the LA board and your Miami conspiracy theory has nothing to do with the Lakers.


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## koberules24 (Nov 12, 2006)

Heated said:


> koberulez are you hijacking your own thread to debate whether or not the heat won the title fairly? Or are you changing the subject after realizing how foolish your thread is?
> 
> Let me explain this for you, and i'll keep it real simple. As far as the series in its entirety, the Mavs got plenty of calls. But nobody remembers the entire game(s), they focus on the closing moments of the games (where they're decided) and see that Miami got the majority of the calls there. Again, real simple. Miami's entire offense is built on paint dominance, thus they're always going hard to the rack, specifically Wade. On the flip side, you have a team that loves their jump shot. And a jump shooting team isn't going to get very many calls. It's really pretty simple stuff.
> 
> ...


I simply made a point about the terrible refereeing in the Finals in relation to how bad it continues to be. If you're a Heat fan then what the hell are you doing on the Lakers forum? Eternal and all these other guys are just pissed about the Lakers poor season so instead of blaming the people that have screwed up-- Vlad, and all the other players-- they expect Kobe to do everything. That's foolish--period.


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## Eternal (Sep 7, 2005)

koberules24 said:


> I simply made a point about the terrible refereeing in the Finals in relation to how bad it continues to be. If you're a Heat fan then what the hell are you doing on the Lakers forum? Eternal and all these other guys are just pissed about the Lakers poor season so instead of blaming the people that have screwed up-- Vlad, and all the other players-- they expect Kobe to do everything. That's foolish--period.


Again... none of us have said we expect Kobe to do everything... we're actually implying he should do less, not more, by letting his teammates shoot more, and not try to do too much. I know for one I'm not pissed... because he made a few bad decisions and that's that. I can't overlook what he does overall for this team. 

What's foolish is... your trying to make us look like we hate Kobe and blaming him for all our problems, which in reality all we did was criticize Kobe on his shot selection... which people are allowed to do. 

You need to calm down like Basel said. You could've taken the approach to our comments by something like... "you know guys I really think this... or that..." instead of coming across, "OMG YOU GUYS ARE KOBE HATERS AND ARE FOOLISH, BECAUSE YOUR CRITICIZING HIM".


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## Theonee (Dec 5, 2006)

If you think we are Kobe haters, try browsing Kobe threads in the main forum, no one defends Kobe like us, but when he commits a mistake, we can't turn a blind eye to it.


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## Sifin (Mar 25, 2007)

The lack of calls didn't lose this game, it was everyone outside of Kobe being unable to create anything off the dribble against the Rockets' stellar defense. I'm worried this team can't hack it against elite defensive teams.


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## koberules24 (Nov 12, 2006)

Sifin said:


> The lack of calls didn't lose this game, it was everyone outside of Kobe being unable to create anything off the dribble against the Rockets' stellar defense. I'm worried this team can't hack it against elite defensive teams.


Again, I specifically referred to the *TWO CALLS* at the end of the game. The three shot foul where Kobe got sandwiched and hit in the face and where they called a travel (where they never would for another team---referrees generally try not to make questionable calls at the end of games). I could of easily gone on longer about the lack of fouls on Yao Ming--I don't remember Shaq or any other superstar center lasting until overtime--but that became an after thought because those two fouls cost them the game. Obviously his TEAMMATES SUCK! He tries to involve teammates ONLY THEY NEVER MAKE THEIR SHOTS! Shooting 3 or 4 for 7 (which would probably be considered a career day for most of them) is hardly what you would call unstoppable, especially when paired with their lack of aggression on the court.


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## Drewbs (Feb 16, 2004)

koberules24 said:


> Again, I specifically referred to the *TWO CALLS* at the end of the game. The three shot foul where Kobe got sandwiched and hit in the face and where they called a travel (where they never would for another team---referrees generally try not to make questionable calls at the end of games). I could of easily gone on longer about the lack of fouls on Yao Ming--I don't remember Shaq or any other superstar center lasting until overtime--but that became an after thought because those two fouls cost them the game. Obviously his TEAMMATES SUCK! He tries to involve teammates ONLY THEY NEVER MAKE THEIR SHOTS! Shooting 3 or 4 for 7 (which would probably be considered a career day for most of them) is hardly what you would call unstoppable, especially when paired with their lack of aggression on the court.


*Edit: Don't attack other posters* This is exactly why so many people hate Kobe, because sometimes homers become so delusional that even Laker fans can't put up with it. Its hard to be unstoppable when you only get 8 shots. Look at the box score, Kobe shot 44 times and went to the line 14 times. He almost put the ball up 50 times a game, and single handedly put up half total team's fg attempts. It doesn't take a genius to realize that a game of 5 on 5 is more effective than 1 on 5. Do you honestly think that in the stretch Kobe went something dreadful like 4-18, the Lakers would have collectively shot worse? This wasn't one of the cases where Kobe needed to take every other shot down the court, which he literally did. His teammates weren't shooting THAT poorly. When you have an entire defense crowding you, you generally pass it to the open player. I think most reasonable basketball fans would rather see Kobe pass it off to an open player rather than chuck up a wild fadeaway with multiple defenders on him. 

Kobe screwed up this time. Generally I don't have a problem with his play, especially when its what his team needs. But there is no other way to describe his game on Friday other than selfish.

You don't remember Shaq or any other superstar center lasting until OT? What are you? 13 years old?


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## koberules24 (Nov 12, 2006)

_*Stop baiting and attacking other posters*_

- Eternal


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

<font color="red">Watch the name calling.</font>


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## koberules24 (Nov 12, 2006)

<font color="red">Please read up on the poster guidelines. We like passionate posters, but you can be one without insulting other people. That goes for everyone.</font>


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## Bartholomew Hunt (Mar 4, 2003)

Locked.


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