# Reason why the Knicks suck.



## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

Heat	Pass Rate
D Wade	12.1
D Jones	10.1
K Dooling	7.0
S O’Neal	4.7
E Jones	4.1
C Laettner	3.8
U Haslem	2.8
S Anderson	2.6
R Butler	2.3
M Doleac	1.3

Knicks	Pass Rate
S Marbury	10.1
M Norris	4.2
T Ariza	4.0
J Crawford	3.9
A Houston	3.6
A Hardaway	2.1
K Thomas	2.1
J Williams	2.0
T Thomas	0.5
M Sweetney	0.5
N Mohammed	0.4

Credit to 82games.

Is there really any reason why 5 players on the Heat are better passers than our 2nd best passers (Norris notwithstanding, Ariza/Crawford). Their entire team is better passing than everyone under Houston.

Bulls	Pass Rate
C Duhon	12.5
K Hinrich	12.1
A Griffin	7.5
L Deng	3.9
O Harrington	2.1
A Nocioni	2.0
A Davis	2.0
E Piatkowski	1.2
T Chandler	1.0
B Gordon	0.5
E Curry	0.4

T’Wolves	Pass Rate
S Cassell	10.4
K Garnett	7.4
T Hudson	7.4
A Carter	7.1
T Hassell	3.2
F Hoiberg	3.0
W Szczerbiak	2.8
L Sprewell	2.7
E Griffin	1.4
M Madsen	1.0
M Olowokandi	0.2
E Johnson	-0.3

Jazz	Pass Rate
R Lopez	14.9
K McLeod	11.9
H Eisley	7.4
G Giricek	4.0
J Collins	3.9
A Kirilenko	3.8
M Okur	3.2
C Boozer	3.0
C Borchardt	2.8
M Harpring	2.0
R Bell	1.8
K Humphries	0.8
K Snyder	-0.1


WTF is Crawford doing? Wasn't he supposed to be a combo guard or something? How the hell did he have ZERO assists in a game against the defenseless Suns? Was Marbury really hogging the ball that much? Well ok, stupid question, but it doesn't stop Kurt Thomas or Trevor Ariza from getting an assist or even two. 

Why is it these teams all have at least three players over 7 pass rate, while the Knicks have only 1 over 5? It's not like Marbury is Steve Nash, even though he has the ball in his hands a lot more than Nash.

Suns	Pass Rate
S Nash	22.9
J Johnson	5.8
L Barbosa	4.1
Q Richardson	3.1
S Marion	2.4
J Voskuhl	2.0
A Stoudemire	1.9
B Outlaw	1.3
S Hunter	0.2


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## John (Jun 9, 2002)

[strike]I like this fan, never go to NBA forum to post but stay with the losing team and post something half of the fans here might not understand.[/strike]


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## Petey (Aug 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>John</b>!
> [strike]I like this fan, never go to NBA forum to post but stay with the losing team and post something half of the fans here might not understand.[/strike]


John... no-no.

-Petey


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## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

Not sure if it's relevant or not but here's my post from another board. 

Rashidi, do you think it's Marbury's style of play or a coincidence of similarly poor passers at every stop?

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He's been called many things in the past, selfish, ball hog, etc. But then you look at his 8 APG, always near the top of the league, you wonder, how can so many assists be bad for an offense? 

I'm not sure I've cracked the code yet, if there is such a thing, but I've suspected it's, A) that his high MPG pad his personal stats, and more importantly, B) so much of the offense runs through him that it stifles ball movement. 

We see an offensive set that looks like this (ball follows arrow): Marbury>KT>Marbury>Craw>Marbury (all on the perimeter) Marbury penetrates, kicks out > Crawford shoots, scores. 

As such Marbury gets the assist but ball movement is generally lateral (east/west) and we don't see other teammates in motion and setting each other up. 

I finally looked up stats that I think bear this theory out: TEAM assists per game. 

Lets look at his history on his various teams. He enters the league in 96-97 with Minnesota. I will show each of his stops beginning the year before he got there and the year after he departs. Primary point guard(s) in parenthesis: 

Minny: 
96 22.8 (Porter) 
97 22.9 (Marbury/Garnett) 
98 25.2 (Marbury) 
99 24.4 (Marbury/Brandon) 
00 26.9 (Brandon) 

Nets: 
98 20.5 (Cassell) 
99 18.4 (Cassell/Marbury) 
00 20.6 (Marbury) 
01 19.5 (Marbury) 
02 24.3 (Kidd) 

Suns: 
01 23.2 (Kidd) 
02 22.4 (Marbury) 
03 21.0 (Marbury) 
04 19.3 (Marbury/Eisley/Barbosa) 
05 23.1 (Nash) 

Knicks: 
03 22.7 (Ward/Eisley) 
04 20.7 (Marbury/Ward/Eisley) 
05 19.6 (Marbury) 

So far his history shows him to struggle initially to keep pace with his predecessor, and then get exceeded by his successor. So yes, he's an orchestrator who can get you 8 APG, but it's quite possible that his style of play comes at the expense of the sort of good ball movement that results in higher team assists.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

I'm of the mind its the system more than crawford. Its basically a pick and roll offense where the guards take the shots by design 

he had an 8.4 passing rating last year and 10.7 the year before that.

he also is playing very little point guard this year. his role on the knicks is to shoot the ball, i think they should move him to point guard or at least play him more there , but thats hard with allan houston out so much.


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