# POST-GAME REVIEW: Greece 101 USA 95 (All threads MERGED)



## noKIDDing

*POST-GAME REVIEW - Greece beats USA 101 - 95*

really feel bad right now.

what was coach k thinking leaving dwight in the bench for the whole 2nd half?


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## frank9007

*Re: Greece beats USA 101 - 95*

Its a ****ing joke.

They need to change that squad it's not that good.

2004>2006


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## Petrucci

*Re: Greece beats USA 101 - 95*

Coach K was absolutely hopeless... Leaving Dwight on the bench, and not have a big guy on the court when they got killed inside by that black greek monster in the fourth period. And why put Melo on the bench right after he just scored 8 straight?? Besides, they couldn´t get a stop in all of the second half. Not one. Bad coaching, they couldn´t handle the pick and rolls at all. Just not good enough. And how come freak athletes like Wade and James not be able to stay in front of their man? They surely didn´t deserve to win this one. Thought Coach K would be better than Larry Brown, but I was very dissapointed. Of course it was the players fault too, no doubt about that... And well played by the greeks.


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## theBirdman

*Re: Greece beats USA 101 - 95*

I love this game! Congratulations Greece! 

It was great watching US players faces at the end! No salute this time I guess? :biggrin:


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## obermotz

*Re: Greece beats USA 101 - 95*

Guys just could not hit free throws, that was the main problem. And Dwight not being out there did not help either. Greece also played a hell of a game, they were very disciplined on offense and played pretty good team defense. Anyway I hope Argentina will beat Spain, so there will be at least 1 Bull in the finals.


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## MemphisX

*Re: Greece beats USA 101 - 95*

It was coaching.

All they had to do is put Joe Johnson at the point, and go with Melo, Battier, Bosh and Howard/Brand and switrch on every pick and roll.


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## bizzybone

*Re: Greece beats USA 101 - 95*

Usa needs to realize that fiba bball is all about team play. There is little room for one on one isolation plays, so the great athleticism of Wade and James is diminished here. And I don't know but why does your team keep shooting bricks from three, it should be esier for them not harder, since the line is closer in fiba? Anyway no more apologies that this wasn't your best team and who should go the next time, no more of "they didn't care" stuff. You played like a great team of individuals, when you should play like a TEAM. Anyway you should have brought the Suns to the WC, they play like a team. Oh, wait Nash is Canadian bummer :biggrin:


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## jordan0386

*Re: Greece beats USA 101 - 95*

only loss this entire summer...we will be fine...tweak FT shooting, and P&R switching...we will be fine

next summer should be a treat...b/c we gotta take it to go to the olympics


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## 22ryno

*Re: Greece beats USA 101 - 95*

Next year I want to see

Chris Paul PG
Kobe Bryant SG/SF
LeBron James PG/SG/SF/PF
Carmelo Anthony SF/PF
Dwight Howard C

Elton Brand PF/C
Dwyane Wade SG/SF
Kirk Hinrich PG/SG or Gilbert Arenas or Chauncey Billups
Chris Bosh PF/C
Joe Johnson SG/SF
Shane Battier SF/PF
Lamar Odom SF/PF/C


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## arkas13

*Re: Greece beats USA 101 - 95*

Sofo Is Your Man!!!!!!!!!!! It Is Good To Be 4 In The World!! ΕΛΛΑΣ ΟΛΕ ΟΛΕ. I ALMOST FORGET IT 101-95!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## MiamiHeat03

*Re: Greece beats USA 101 - 95*

Chris Paul?
I am starting to think Hinrich is better at playing PG in the international game, he can defend unlike Paul.

Hinrich
Bryant
Melo
Brand
Howard

bench:
Wade
Billups
Redd
Joe Johnson
BattierLebron
Bosh


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## Gambino

*Re: Greece beats USA 101 - 95*

I don't understand why COach K started Brand. I would hae thought Howard would be Ideal for this type of team.


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## arkas13

*Re: Greece beats USA 101 - 95*

Sofoklis Schortsianitis
Diamantidis
Kakioyzis
Papadopoulos
Dikoydis
Papaloykas
Spanoylis
Fotsis
Chatzivretas
Vasilopoylos
Zisis
Tsartsaris


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## arkas13

*Re: Greece beats USA 101 - 95*

In Case That You Forgot Them


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## arkas13

*Re: Greece beats USA 101 - 95*

Do not hide guys! it is very natural to lose FROM THE GREATEST TEAM IN THE TOURNAMENT G R E E C E


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## bizzybone

*Re: Greece beats USA 101 - 95*

Yeah salute to the greek team for playing a great game :clap: . 

And how about that game for the Bronze medal? Do you think USA has enough mental strenght to beat SPA or ARG? I don't think so.


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## shoprite

*Re: Greece beats USA 101 - 95*

Nothing surprise. No super star calls means no gold medal for USA. What many NBA "superstars" do best is draw contact and get to the line. That only works in NBA because they get the calls even without being touched. They are only half as powerful when that doesn't happen.


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## mauzer

*Re: Greece beats USA 101 - 95*

it is pitty that NBA circus superstars didn,t play at this world champ. LeBrod, Melo or wade could own these scrubs alone. Euro teams sucks. NBA , McDonalds, Ford, G. Bush are best !!!


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## LA68

*Re: Greece beats USA 101 - 95*



Gambino said:


> I don't understand why COach K started Brand. I would hae thought Howard would be Ideal for this type of team.


Brand would be better because he can hit jumpers against the 2 3 zone. but, when you don't pass to him, what difference does it make ??

Very disappointed in this team and the bad coaching. 

It seemed K was intimidated by the players. He never told them to pick up any defense or intensity.
All I saw was:Wade, Melo, LeBron.....Shoot jumpers and drive every blue moon !! 

I saw no plays set up. no pick and roll or pick and fade. No back door actions...Never set anything up for the big men.The only time they got the ball was on a rebound and put back. The talents of the team were not utilized. Outside of Wade, who on this team has every been through a pro playoffs series ???

They had trouble with threes last game yet, when Joe Johnson starts hitting...he benches him and goes back to the cold starters. 

You can't coach when you are afraid of the players.


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## leidout

*Re: Greece beats USA 101 - 95*

I'm beginning to become convinced that the USA players are not even the best individually, the rest of the world has not only caught up, but surpassed us. 

Or maybe the NBA has turned into a glorified dunk contest w/street ballers & touch fouls...


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## Brolic

*Re: Greece beats USA 101 - 95*

tough loss i thought it would come against Spain or Argentina. It wasn't all the coaches fault our players don't play dare i say it "the right way." 

Lebron was exposed for his lack of bball IQ he's too big to slash and not a good shooter neither is Wade.
They also gamble on every play (as do others) but lack in positional defense the announcer has been saying that
-so that's inconsistent shooting from the 2guard spot and bad defense (and the offense was dominated by the guards)

Chris Paul is not a good defender so he couldn't stay in front of people and couldn't handle the pick n roll 
he couldn't shoot well from the perimeter either 

Dwight Howard and Elton Brand could have done more had they gotten the ball more

Carmelo Anthony was their most consistent player

next summer hopefully Kobe and michael Redd join the team then they would be fine. 
sg's that fit the FIBA style


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## DKaiser

*Greece trounce Team USA*

Final score 101-95...Greece on to the Gold Medal game.

I predicted a 3rd place finish for Team USA...now I'm not sure if they can even get a medal.

I thought Team USA had control of the game. They were leading 32-21 with barely six minutes left in the first half. Then Greece went on a 13-2 tear led by their big man with the nickname "Baby Shaq"...and didn't look back.

Team USA tried to get back into the game. Again, Carmelo Anthony (the savior in those oh-so-close games against Puerto Rico, Italy, & Germany) and Kirk Hinrich were steadily chipping away Greece's lead to five points, with about 2 minutes to go. However, they came up short...a case of a little too late.

Looking at the game as a whole, I thought Lebron cost them the game with his boneheaded decision-making, turnovers, poor free-throw shooting, ...oh, and that stupid jumpshot that's never improved since he came in with all that hype in the NBA. What a multi-millionaire dud! Well, at least, he's rich. But his stock as...what position did he say he's in? Guard? Ha! What a *******!

Hats off to Carmelo Anthony and Kirk Hinrich for their excellent showing!


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## futuristxen

*Re: Greece trounce Team USA*



DKaiser said:


> Looking at the game as a whole, I thought Lebron cost them the game with his boneheaded decision-making, turnovers, poor free-throw shooting, ...oh, and that stupid jumpshot that's never improved since he came in with all that hype in the NBA. What a multi-millionaire dud! Well, at least, he's rich. But his stock as...what position did he say he's in? Guard? Ha! What a *******!


Oh yeah, his jumpshot is exactly the same as when he came in. Do you only watch non-NBA basketball? Do you pay no attention to statistics? Yeah, arguably the best player in the game and only 21. What a dud.

I'm sure this tournament is going to haunt his career.



Oh well. On to '08. Glad I'm not on Team USA. I have no idea why these guys waste their summers doing this anyways. Nothing to gain, everything to lose.


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## Diable

*Re: Greece trounce Team USA*

I'm glad I didn't become the mod of this forum.I would have banned about seven guys right after I started getting really pissed and then become an ex-mod real quick for it.


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## magic_bryant

*Re: Greece beats USA 101 - 95*

What hurt was not having one individual that was unanimously respected. Coach K had to worry about pissing the 3 stars off. The role players had to worry about Coach K yanking them for no reason, "Hello Dwight". 

And for that, I think part of the reason that Coach K was so adamant that Kobe be on the team was that he would have been that guy. When things got rough, you saw Wade, Melo, and Bron play for themselves. Put Kobe on the court, and there's one guy that everyone plays 2nd fiddle to. 

Dwight/Brand
LO/Bosh
Bron/Melo/Battier
Kobe/Wade/Adam Morrison or Reddick
Billups/Hinrich

That would be my team for next year and '08. 2-way players around 2 superstars in both lineups. Kobe/Bron and Wade/Melo. 

Bron really needed an Odom in the starting lineup with him to allow him to focus more on scoring. Paul just doesn't do enough other things well to warrant being on the court with all those guys, just like Isiah in '92.


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## SignGuyDino

*Re: Greece beats USA 101 - 95*



Gambino said:


> I don't understand why COach K started Brand. I would hae thought Howard would be Ideal for this type of team.



Because he played for Duke...so he knows how to "play the right way" like Coach K has been browbeating to us.

SHOW THEM MY MOTTO!!


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## SignGuyDino

*Re: Greece beats USA 101 - 95*

Shouldn't we go ahead and fire Coach K, elevate D'antoni (who actually understands the FIBA game), or elevate somebody who understands the FIBA game?

If you're going to lecture all of us for a year about "basketball the right way," don't fail. Period.


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## JuniorNoboa

*Re: Greece beats USA 101 - 95*

LMAO at those of you who actually thought Coach K could strategize before this game (I'm not sure any of you did before, I am sure you have changed your minds now). He has always been a mental midget on game days - a choker when the game is on the line.

He is a great college basketball coach, because recruiting and keeping your players in line is what makes you a great coach in college. He only wins because he has a hell of a lot more talent on his teams. 

Coach K game day is a joke. End of story.


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## Perseas

*Re: Greece trounce Team USA*



futuristxen said:


> Stupid international basketball fans.
> 
> Oh well. On to '08. Glad I'm not on Team USA. I have no idea why these guys waste their summers doing this anyways. Nothing to gain, everything to lose.



I'll take my stupidity over your 3rd place playoff game any time, thank you very much.... And of course, a very typical reaction... Whenever we lose, blame the rest of the world and put the whole idea down... continue to live in your private little world if that suits you.... But the rest of the world is out there you know...


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## Brolic

*Re: Greece beats USA 101 - 95*

US missed 10-15 free thows they make them we're talking about the next round despite giving up 101 pts in a 40 minute game


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## Goubot

*Re: Greece trounce Team USA*

Six points is considered a trouncing now, good to know.

I'm mostly just dreading the Sheridan "I told you so" articles. I really hate that guy now.


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## itsnotagame

*Re: Greece beats USA 101 - 95*

numbers-wise, even though they haven't shot a great percentage, the offense isnt the problem. 95 points in 40 minutes is equal to 114 in 48, way above the suns average last year. their main problem (just like in athens) was the guards and wingmen getting, for lack of a better term, lit the f--k up. for whatever reason, in international play we cannot guard anybody thats any good.


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## futuristxen

*Re: Greece trounce Team USA*



Perseas said:


> I'll take my stupidity over your 3rd place playoff game any time, thank you very much....


I'll take my 82 games of the league with the best players in the world. It's not like we don't know what these players can do.

Some of you international fans are no worse than american fans who watch the world cup and are like "Ronaldinho sucks".

Ronaldinho did suck in the world cup. And Zidane was awesome.

But who was the player who won his league and Champions League and is regarded as the best in the game? Versus who was thought to be washed up, whose team thought of benching him, who played for an all-star team that couldn't win anything?

Dissing Lebron or any of the top NBA players for a poor performance in the world championships is like taking shots at Ronaldinho, Wayne Rooney, and Steven Gerrard after their poor world cups.


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## IbizaXL

*Re: Greece beats USA 101 - 95*

some still havent mentioned the fact that this USA team is still new. all these guys had like 3 weeks in training camp before the tournament. Greece and many other fiba teams have been together for years. if we want team USA to play as a team, then we should let them gain some chemistry. these losses will only make team USA stronger. thats why theres a 3 year commitment going on...oh yeah, wait till Kobe comes along for the ride.

look at the Heat when they started off with a fresh new team, they were horrible but by the end of the season when everyone knew their roles and gelled up together they were winning more ballgames.

give credit to greece, they were also unbeaten and are among the best teams in the world, so im not really shocked with this outcome. Spain and Argentina are more talented than greece imo so those teams are very capable as well to beat team USA.

Team USA is a sleeping giant. it has remained dormant for too long. the only thing these international tournaments are doing is waking him up. 

2008 watch out!


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## SignGuyDino

*Re: Greece beats USA 101 - 95*

Did I forget to mention something about firing Coach K right now?

I said this two years ago, I'll say it now...play only D-League players. We won't win but at least our expectations won't be too high and frankly they'd be easier to root for. They'd at least have a few months to work together as a TEAM. They could even adopt FIBA rules for the D-League.

It's not like anyone's going to the arenas to watch the D-League now anyway.

And did I mention FIRE COACH K?


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## Perseas

*Re: Greece trounce Team USA*

I never dissed LeBron, or Dwayne, or Carmello... I think they are great players (probably the greatest of their generation) and if you put them side by side individually with any players in these positions they would rank higher of course. But I resent name calling (i.e. every international basketball fan is stupid... hmmmm), especially when it is done in the heat of the moment. Team USA has better players, but Greece is a better TEAM. I accept the former as much as I accept the latter. But I see the other teams' successes beign demised every time the US lose in international tournaments that they are supposed to be dominating and I am fed up with it. World Basketball Championships, Olympic Games, the World Baseball Classic.... need I go on?... it's always everybody else's fault: The tournament system, the officials, the other team's jerseys and I don't know what else... Why don't you admit for once, just once, that you have to adjust to the rest of the world and not expect the opposite every time just because it suits you... I'm not saying that the NBA should change, but when you go international, you have to act international...


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## synergy825

*Re: Greece beats USA 101 - 95*

Hahaha owned by the Greeks.....USA hasn't won a gold since 94. This should be a wake-up call that NBA basketball should be tweaked to be more international style. It takes more skill to shoot, then to do one-on-one isolation and try to get a call by just cramming into a group of people. Greece isn't even considered on the same level as Argentina or Spain. NBA basketball isn't really that good. Time and time again international teams are beating us. Hopefully we do better in 2008. We need more shooters and defenders.


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## synergy825

*Re: Greece beats USA 101 - 95*



Gio305 said:


> some still havent mentioned the fact that this USA team is still new. all these guys had like 3 weeks in training camp before the tournament. Greece and many other fiba teams have been together for years. if we want team USA to play as a team, then we should let them gain some chemistry. these losses will only make team USA stronger. thats why theres a 3 year commitment going on...oh yeah, wait till Kobe comes along for the ride.
> 
> look at the Heat when they started off with a fresh new team, they were horrible but by the end of the season when everyone knew their roles and gelled up together they were winning more ballgames.
> 
> give credit to greece, they were also unbeaten and are among the best teams in the world, so im not really shocked with this outcome. Spain and Argentina are more talented than greece imo so those teams are very capable as well to beat team USA.
> 
> Team USA is a sleeping giant. it has remained dormant for too long. the only thing these international tournaments are doing is waking him up.
> 
> 2008 watch out!


So a team of "supposedly the best basketball players in the world" still needs one more superstar to win? This group isn't good enough? Most of the guys you are playing are Euroleague players. Does that mean their players are better than ours? Since we haven't won squat in the past several years. I think we just overrate the players in the NBA, because they can dunk and do flashy stuff. In the end, all that counts is putting the ball through the hoop. NBA basketball is a joke with its superstar calls and isolation plays. That's not real basketball.


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## IbizaXL

*Re: Greece beats USA 101 - 95*



synergy825 said:


> Hopefully we do better in 2008. We need more shooters and defenders.


yeah, i thought Bruce Bowen wouldve been a good fit for this tournament along with shane battier, that right there wouldve been a nice 1-2 punch to defend. if keep these 2 for 2008 and add Redd with Kobe, we can make up for that.


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## magic_bryant

*Re: Greece beats USA 101 - 95*

Can you imagine being a foreign coach trying to gameplan for Team USA's talent onslaught with Kobe Bryant as it's main offensive option? Kobe's game is BUILT for the International game. Jumpers, taking advantage of mismatches, speed and deception on drives instead of bullying your way into the lane, etc. 

Melo DOMINATED the international play. Kobe's game is far more complete.


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## futuristxen

*Re: Greece beats USA 101 - 95*



synergy825 said:


> So a team of "supposedly the best basketball players in the world" still needs one more superstar to win? This group isn't good enough? Most of the guys you are playing are Euroleague players. Does that mean their players are better than ours? Since we haven't won squat in the past several years. I think we just overrate the players in the NBA, because they can dunk and do flashy stuff. In the end, all that counts is putting the ball through the hoop. NBA basketball is a joke with its superstar calls and isolation plays. That's not real basketball.


And yet many of the best players in euroleague are americans who can't make the NBA over here. Hell, there's been several cases of euro players not being as good in the NBA as they are in international ball.

Just because a country has the best league, doesn't mean it will win all of the international competitions. Otherwise Spain wouldn't suck in the world cup always.


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## SignGuyDino

*Re: Greece beats USA 101 - 95*

I certainly am not a Eurosnob, but the reality is they accomodated our rules (especially the 24 second shot clock) to some point, maybe we need to change to accomodate them.

Keep 12 minute periods and 6 fouls, but have the FIBA 3 point line, trapezoid lane, rule where you can get the ball off the rim, etc.

FEWER TIMEOUTS. It's killing the flow of the game.

Oh, and FIRE COACH K. I'll beat the horse UNTIL it's dead, then beat it some more.


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## frank_white

*Re: Greece beats USA 101 - 95*

Damn it, I wish I could have seen this game. Congrats to Greece!


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## futuristxen

*Re: Greece beats USA 101 - 95*



synergy825 said:


> Hahaha owned by the Greeks.....USA hasn't won a gold since 94. This should be a wake-up call that NBA basketball should be tweaked to be more international style. It takes more skill to shoot, then to do one-on-one isolation and try to get a call by just cramming into a group of people.


I disagree. It's a lot harder to do one on one isolation ball and dunk on a bunch of people. Have you ever tried to beat somebody off the dribble and then dunk on a crowded lane? It's a lot harder to do, hell just a layup in a crowded lane is work. It's a lot harder than taking a jumpshot. Go play some actual basketball games and you'll see what I'm talking about. Any rube can jack shots at the rim. Hell any idiot can get hot and knock down a bunch of shots--look at that kid with autism this year. Shooting is something anyone can do. But try a quick crossover dribble, a spin move, hop step, and then rising up and finishing over people half a foot taller than you trying to block your shot.

American players are the most talented in the world, but they don't try and make things easier on themselves. They always try to do the most difficult thing. It's like Brazilians in soccer. It's not good enough to just do something simple. You have to look good while doing it.


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## IbizaXL

*Re: Greece beats USA 101 - 95*



synergy825 said:


> So a team of "supposedly the best basketball players in the world" still needs one more superstar to win? This group isn't good enough? Most of the guys you are playing are Euroleague players. Does that mean their players are better than ours? Since we haven't won squat in the past several years. I think we just overrate the players in the NBA, because they can dunk and do flashy stuff. In the end, all that counts is putting the ball through the hoop. NBA basketball is a joke with its superstar calls and isolation plays. That's not real basketball.


this group is defintely good enough. you add Kobe and its obvously better. what i meant to say is that we need to let this group to build up more chemistry. what doesnt kill you makes you stronger.



> Does that mean their players are better than ours?


No. as far as team play--Yes. like i mentioned before many of these FIBA teams have been together for years. Team USA was put together and were training in 3 weeks before the tournament. you have to let them gel. give this group time. thats why i think by 2008 we'll be ok.


> Since we haven't won squat in the past several years....


we havent won squat before cuz nobody in team USA cared and usually (just like Athens in 2004) team USA was put together and trained for only a week before whatever tournaments. Only this year have we showned concern and finally accepted that the world has cought up.

so that being said, we managed to put up the best team possible for FIBA play. but in order to really compete, you have to letthese guys grow up together, like the other teams competing.


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## synergy825

*Re: Greece beats USA 101 - 95*



futuristxen said:


> And yet many of the best players in euroleague are americans who can't make the NBA over here. Hell, there's been several cases of euro players not being as good in the NBA as they are in international ball.
> 
> Just because a country has the best league, doesn't mean it will win all of the international competitions. Otherwise Spain wouldn't suck in the world cup always.


Yea they don't do well here, because the style is different. NBA is more one-on-one isolation and instead of skill, athleticism is stressed. yes, but the USA team hasn't won any international competition for several years. That should tell you something. NBA focuses more on style than substance.


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## synergy825

*Re: Greece beats USA 101 - 95*

What do you think has happened more? USA basketball has diminished or the international basketball has grown up?


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## SignGuyDino

*Re: Greece beats USA 101 - 95*

Both. NO doubt about it.

Oh, and FIRE COACH K.


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## ralaw

*Re: Greece beats USA 101 - 95*

Some of you guys amuse me, just last week some of you were saying this was a great team with great balance, D. Wade this, LeBron that, Carmello this.. Now after a loss, the world is coming to an end and international basketball players have surpassed American players. American still has the best individual players, but it no longer will be able to send the best teams due to other obligations. This loss is only an indication of how American needs to put a greater emphasis on these games. International basketball has made huge strides since 1992 and this is amazing to me.


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## futuristxen

*Re: Greece trounce Team USA*

Hey I have consistently had the rest of the world's back when it comes to their basketball acumen. I considered, rightly so, Argentina the favorites for Athens. Some of these teams are ultra talented, and they are playing smart systems very comfortably.

But everytime the US faces adversity, hell everytime period, we hear about how Americans(and it is usually implied African Americans) have no fundementals, don't know how to play the game, and are only good at it because they are naturally fast or jump high. There's a lot of racism and a lot of lack of understanding, particularly amongst europeans. Racism is terrible in europe, and many of those racist idiots come out in droves whenever something like this happens. So pardon my frustration in getting prepared for another onslaught. But now that it's over they can go back to making monkey noises at Samuel Eto'o and leave americans alone. Most americans following Team USA are following the team because they are NBA fans. But international, specifically european teams, make it an ultra-nationalistic thing.

Getting to the semi-finals of any one and done world tournament should not be considered failure.


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## BG7

*Re: Greece beats USA 101 - 95*

I feel, even though that isn't the team I'd bring over, I think as coach, I would have won, these foreign teams really aren't that good, they're over glorified. I don't think we're going to beat Argentina, the only team I thought had enough talent to truly contend with us, and were going to get 4th, and making sure that debacle that never happens at the Olympics in 04 can go to rest, since at least we got a medal then.

Here is the team I'd like to bring over in 2008.

PG-Kirk Hinrich/Dwyane Wade
SG-Kobe Bryant/Ben Gordon/Michael Redd
SF-Carmelo Anthony/Shane Battier/Joe Johnson
PF-Dwight Howard/Amare Stoudemire
C- Greg Oden/Chris Kaman

I think that team would give us our best shot at the gold. Two big weak points of Team USA, not enough shooters, so you add Gordon, and Redd while retaining Hinrich, Battier, and Johnson to also shoot. Secondly, we had too many players who strength is athleticism, Lebron is redundant, and he doesn't defend or shoot well, so he gets left home. Kobe is a no brainer, he can shoot, defend, and go inside and on the fastbreak. Third, we had a ***** frontcourt. We were getting abused by a Michael Sweetney impersonator, so add Oden, Kaman, and Amare to make a truly tough frontcourt.


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## jordan0386

*Re: Greece trounce Team USA*

i really agree

also consider, nobody really likes America...or as some would say "The Americans", anyway...so anytime we lose at anything, its a big deal, since we are such a big deal otherwise with every and anything

I also dont like, when so called Americans, like Chris Sheridan, is looking for us to lose...you dont help casual fans love the game, if you as a journalist will give out such a negative vibe


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## Perseas

*Re: Greece trounce Team USA*

I cannot say that you are wron about the nationalistic point of view. I wouldn't go as far as calling anybody "racist" but I would admit that there has been some controversy regarding that matter.... And it is true that most Europeans do tend to mix sports with... well, almost every other aspect of life. The way sports is seen in the US is something I honestly admire, and should be that way everywhere...
Going back to basketball, I honestly believe that Americans do learn the fundamentals better than anyone. But as they progress and become career players, they tend to rely more on their athleticism and less on playing fundamental baskeball... And I strongly stand by the opinion that teamwork is something that the NBA teams do NOT develop as well as international sides. Individual talent alone will not win you tournaments....
As for what should be considered a failure or not, tell that to the US sportswriters....


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## jordan0386

*Re: Greece trounce Team USA*

well, in 2004...from what i was seeing on the internet...know nobody was really feeling Team USA...and a lot of folks thought it was due to racism/prejudice

that team did have players with questionable character, but you know...its in the past


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## Gilgamesh

*Re: Greece beats USA 101 - 95*



ralaw said:


> International basketball has made huge strides since 1992


Exactly.

USA will never dominate like it once did and most people already realize that. 

The team they put out this year is clearly the most talented team in the tournament but that doesn't mean it is the best team. The best teams have chemistry. This team is still building chemistry. The same goes for in the NBA. Look at the Knicks. A hell of a lot of talent and a HOF coach but they sit at the bottom of the standings. There is a reason why the Spurs are always among the best teams every year despite not being the most talented team in the NBA.

Greece is a good team. When USA loses against a nobody then I would really worry.

USA not winning gold is not the end of the world for USA basketball. I find it funny when people say the same thing about Canadian hockey.

I also don't think coaching is the primary problem even though Coach K might have made errors in judgement in this game. USA had three HOF caliber coaches and couldn't catch gold. Blaming the coach is a frequent but old excuse. Give the world credit. Greece simply outplayed USA period.


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*Re: Greece trounce Team USA*

From a skills and IQ standpoint, Greece just made Team USA look like a middle school team. USA was lost on defense, and trying to isolate every time down the court. The only reason it wasn't a total blowout is because USA is just super athletic, but in this case, skills and basketball understanding dwarfed athleticism. That's usually how it goes under the FIBA rules. 

Team USA relies too much on athleticism, and it's a reflection of the NBA's rules. The NBA has rules that reward super athletic players, even if their skills aren't half as good as someone less athletic. This type of thing does not fly in FIBA, and that has proven to be the case for several years now.


----------



## alex_021

*Re: Greece beats USA 101 - 95*

well i think Panathinaikos BC can play very easy in NBA!!!5 players of the Greek team Plays in Panathinaikos (DIAMANTIDIS,XATZIVRETAS,DIKOUDIS,TSARTSARIS & untill last month SPANOULIS)..Also FOTSIS AND PAPADOPOULOS WERE PLAYERS OF PANATHINAIKOS...So..7 from 12 players...that means homogeneity..maybe this also a reason that this team has so good performance..


----------



## jordan0386

*Re: Greece trounce Team USA*

its not about rules...its about the evolution of players and how they choose to play the game, coming up

its not about jumpers anymore...its about...first step, hop step, lay up...nobody is shooting anymore...poor form;fundamentals...blah blah blah...and even with that mindset...USA still has the best ball players in the world

i feel that the top AAU teams here, would beat the top 16-under 18-under, teams overseas

lack of focus, cost them this morning...if you dont beat your man to the spot, he should score on you...P&R after P&R, USA just couldnt get to the spot, for a stop or charge

...Lebron dribbles too much


----------



## ralaw

*Re: Greece beats USA 101 - 95*



Gilgamesh said:


> Exactly.
> 
> USA will never dominate like it once did and most people already realize that.
> 
> The team they put out this year is clearly the most talented team in the tournament but that doesn't mean it is the best team. The best teams have chemistry. This team is still building chemistry. The same goes for in the NBA. Look at the Knicks. A hell of a lot of talent and a HOF coach but they sit at the bottom of the standings. There is a reason why the Spurs are always among the best teams every year despite not being the most talented team in the NBA.
> 
> Greece is a good team. When USA loses against a nobody then I would really worry.
> 
> USA not winning gold is not the end of the world for USA basketball. I find it funny when people say the same thing about Canadian hockey.
> 
> I also don't think coaching is the primary problem even though Coach K might have made errors in judgement in this game. USA had three HOF caliber coaches and couldn't catch gold. Blaming the coach is a frequent but old excuse. Give the world credit. Greece simply outplayed USA period.


Well said, blaming Coach K is nothing more than ignorance. This team is good, but the US can no longer just put a group of guys together for a few months and expect them to win gold. Most of these international teams have been playing together for years, and simply interchange younger players into the system when the older players get too old. The Olympic game is tailor-made for the international system of developing players when their 15 years old, and this is why the gap between the US and International teams has been closed so rapidly. 

As of now, the US is in an awkward situation where developing a team who has the time to create the necessary chemistry may mean taking semi-pro players; as college and pro players have other obligations; however, those semi-pro players probably wouldn't have the best overall talent. The US needs to figure out what matters more, sending the best overall players with the best name recognition or sending the best overall team with less name recognition.


----------



## Darman

*Re: Greece trounce Team USA*



Sir Patchwork said:


> From a skills and IQ standpoint, Greece just made Team USA look like a middle school team. USA was lost on defense, and trying to isolate every time down the court. The only reason it wasn't a total blowout is because USA is just super athletic, but in this case, skills and basketball understanding dwarfed athleticism. That's usually how it goes under the FIBA rules.
> 
> Team USA relies too much on athleticism, and it's a reflection of the NBA's rules. The NBA has rules that reward super athletic players, even if their skills aren't half as good as someone less athletic. This type of thing does not fly in FIBA, and that has proven to be the case for several years now.


Great post. :clap: 

I think NBA and FIBA are too different systems... Team USA should play the next games with players from european leagues. 

Usually it was said "European players don't fit in NBA", but be sure it's the opposite too. Honestly I can 't see a player like Wade doing well in Europe like Anthony Parker did. No way.


----------



## Darman

*Re: Greece trounce Team USA*

Double post :angel:


----------



## nbanoitall

*Re: Greece beats USA 101 - 95*



22ryno said:


> Next year I want to see
> 
> Chris Paul PG
> Kobe Bryant SG/SF
> LeBron James PG/SG/SF/PF
> Carmelo Anthony SF/PF
> Dwight Howard C
> 
> Elton Brand PF/C
> Dwyane Wade SG/SF
> Kirk Hinrich PG/SG or Gilbert Arenas or Chauncey Billups
> Chris Bosh PF/C
> Joe Johnson SG/SF
> Shane Battier SF/PF
> Lamar Odom SF/PF/C


you have the starting lineup pretty to close to how it should be. however based on what ive seen Lebron might find the pine for a shooter like Michael Redd, or after Morrison wins ROY and proves leaving him off the squad this summer was retarded he might deserve a look too. Somebody that can join Melo and Kobe in hitting a higher percentage of shots


----------



## Pioneer10

*Re: Greece trounce Team USA*

My big fear about this team was the quick rotations took the key player for this team out of the game way too much. There was one player who had the biggest impact in terms of board and overall interior defense and that player was not Lebron, Wade, or Melo. The key player was Howard: if you're going to run this kind of game we need another real C not small or thin PF's trying to mask as PF's but another big shotblocking C.

I've said the same thing throughout this tournament while everyone has been focused on outside shooting which hasn't been bad, we've been smaller then against nearly every team we faced. The same thing happened in the last Olympics and the last WC.


----------



## Banjoriddim

*Re: Greece trounce Team USA*



futuristxen said:


> Hey I have consistently had the rest of the world's back when it comes to their basketball acumen. I considered, rightly so, Argentina the favorites for Athens. Some of these teams are ultra talented, and they are playing smart systems very comfortably.
> 
> But everytime the US faces adversity, hell everytime period, we hear about how Americans(and it is usually implied African Americans) have no fundementals, don't know how to play the game, and are only good at it because they are naturally fast or jump high. There's a lot of racism and a lot of lack of understanding, particularly amongst europeans. Racism is terrible in europe, and many of those racist idiots come out in droves whenever something like this happens. So pardon my frustration in getting prepared for another onslaught. But now that it's over they can go back to making monkey noises at Samuel Eto'o and leave americans alone. Most americans following Team USA are following the team because they are NBA fans. But international, specifically european teams, make it an ultra-nationalistic thing.
> 
> Getting to the semi-finals of any one and done world tournament should not be considered failure.


In Europe ther is no racism problem thoward b-ball I mean in most euro teams you have black stars it's just feeling that americans feel that basketball=NBA I mean look at your current rules Sir Patchwork is right you have showtime game and though I am big NBA fan I like FIBA fair standards more. I mean look how you sound futuristxen: "some euros can't compite in NBA" I don't like such attitude also USA players are arrogant and yes they do get more attention and hate but for god sace they desrve it and basketball isn't nationalistic thing its about pride if USA killed everbody in 1992 they started war what they are starting to lose... 
I mean some posters say that they are surprised how good players outside USA are... I sounds here like you think that it's normal that USA is better than others and generates dislike and most of all wish to prove you wrong.

Thats it. And if you like showtime basketball where individuals shine I am fine I like underdogs who play team game coz it rises individual skills and I like it... If Greece would play like team USA then they would be beaten by 40 since they just cant iso that well arent quick strong enough... end of story.

About fundamentals... I'd say its habits. guys in USA have bad habits on top level you don't see them that clearly but they are there... "me first thing" ect and it dosn't allow to have nice team inwolment and ball movement, shot selection and hurts in rotation off/defensive.


----------



## ChiBron

It's not the end of the world. The US team just needs more time than 3 weeks of training camp. Even as pitiful as our play was today and as spectacular as Greece was, we would've WON had we just made our FTs! Think about that. Yes, the international teams have greatly improved but does anyone think we wouldn't dominate if given time to gel? Heck, our victory margin coming into tonight's game was 24 ppg and that's w/ less than a month of practicing together. That's how much more talented we still are compared to most teams except for a few like Spain, Greece and Argentina, where the gap's smaller. But put those 3 teams in the US' situation where the best players from the respective countries are randomly picked and put together in a 3 week training camp prior to the tournament's beginning. How would they fare once the games start? They'll likely SUCK but I bet no one would blame them off being selfish, lacking fundamentals and only caring abt dunking the basketball. Yet when the US lose a game to a talented squad that's been together for YEARS, people put it on all the cliched reasons voiced out by ignorant idiots/writers who sound like they haven't seen an NBA game since MJ's retirement. 

Not winning gold in the WC is still very disappointing. Especially considering how we lost(clueless PnR defense and FT shooting) but I just don't get these end-of-the-world posts where people start blaming the NBA for everything that doesn't go right.


----------



## Auggie

very impressive by greece


----------



## itsnotagame

SPMJ said:


> Not winning gold in the WC is still very disappointing. Especially considering how we lost(clueless PnR defense and FT shooting) but I just don't get these end-of-the-world posts where people start blaming the NBA for everything that doesn't go right.


right.


----------



## jaja

It's a disappointing loss, especially since our Ft's could have put us ahead. othr than that im very proud of the team and expect better from them down the line. same goes for the coach.


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## neural_dream

SPMJ said:


> Even as pitiful as our play was today and as spectacular as Greece was, we would've WON had we just made our FTs! Think about that.


 :clap: 

American basketball is still way better than European and S.American. It took a spectacular performance from the European champions to beat you, and even then it was very close until Carmelo's last shot. Only please bring Kobe next time, and Skiles as at least an assistant. Hope we meet again (Greece and USA) in the next Olympics.


----------



## mook

some thoughts:

- was I the only one who enjoyed watching the tall greek center use the skyhook on three different plays? (two of the three scored) I'd love to see Kareem's shot come back into the NBA. between him and the big black guy, I couldn't help but think, "Zach Randolph." skilled big bodies with no elevation, mediocre defense, but just a real talent for getting the ball in around the basket. 

- did we run a single play throughout the entire game? yeesh. 

- was there a single post entry pass in the entire game? if so, I don't remember it. 

- why did it take the entire third quarter to figure out that we needed to start switching on pick and rolls? 
and what's up with the rotation in that third quarter? I was incredibly grateful when they finally subbed in Battier and Hinrich, but christ, why did Greece have to rattle off 20 points before we did it? the whole point of all this depth is that you can sub in guys to fit the game situation. nobody will remember that the US team pretty much won all but 10 minutes of this game, and we could've easily won all but 4 or 5 minutes with a smart coaching adjustment. 

- LeBron's my favorite player in the world. but I just don't know what the hell he was doing out there tonight. his defense was completely forgettable and you just didnt even notice him out there for most of the offense. 

- ball movement in the half court simply didn't exist most of the time. this was by far the worst display of passing they had in the tournament. I give Greece a lot of credit for that--they just played really solid defense. 

well, the US team wasn't as good as I hoped, but it is a process. I find it funny that several here are arguing that we really need to add Kobe, when the entire point is that we got beat by a team that's played together a lot longer. if you throw Kobe in this mix, you are basically chucking out a lot of what the players learned in this tournament because he's going to make the team play differently. you do add a lot of playoff experience, so maybe it is worth it. 

IMO, team USA should dump one big man (Miller), and add Oden. then they should talk to the players and if guys don't want to come back, they should target Billups, Stoudemire and Bryant. that's about it. 

the problem isn't that we don't have the right personnel. it's just that our current guys haven't been together long enough. Wade, LeBron, Anthony, Howard, Bosh--so many of these guys are still a few years away from peaking (as amazing as that seems). as they continue to grow, and grow together, we'll only do better from here.


----------



## cima

*Re: Greece beats USA 101 - 95*



sloth said:


> I feel, even though that isn't the team I'd bring over, I think as coach, I would have won, these foreign teams really aren't that good, they're over glorified. I don't think we're going to beat Argentina, the only team I thought had enough talent to truly contend with us, and were going to get 4th, and making sure that debacle that never happens at the Olympics in 04 can go to rest, since at least we got a medal then.
> 
> Here is the team I'd like to bring over in 2008.
> 
> PG-Kirk Hinrich/Dwyane Wade
> SG-Kobe Bryant/Ben Gordon/Michael Redd
> SF-Carmelo Anthony/Shane Battier/Joe Johnson
> PF-Dwight Howard/Amare Stoudemire
> C- Greg Oden/Chris Kaman
> 
> I think that team would give us our best shot at the gold. Two big weak points of Team USA, not enough shooters, so you add Gordon, and Redd while retaining Hinrich, Battier, and Johnson to also shoot. Secondly, we had too many players who strength is athleticism, *Lebron is redundant, and he doesn't defend or shoot well, so he gets left home.* Kobe is a no brainer, he can shoot, defend, and go inside and on the fastbreak. Third, we had a ***** frontcourt. We were getting abused by a Michael Sweetney impersonator, so add Oden, Kaman, and Amare to make a truly tough frontcourt.


Who guarded Dirk in the 2nd half of the USA/Germany game? And how did Dirk shoot in the 2nd half?


----------



## bball2223

*Re: Greece beats USA 101 - 95*



sloth said:


> I feel, even though that isn't the team I'd bring over, I think as coach, I would have won, these foreign teams really aren't that good, they're over glorified. I don't think we're going to beat Argentina, the only team I thought had enough talent to truly contend with us, and were going to get 4th, and making sure that debacle that never happens at the Olympics in 04 can go to rest, since at least we got a medal then.
> 
> Here is the team I'd like to bring over in 2008.
> 
> PG-Kirk Hinrich/Dwyane Wade
> SG-Kobe Bryant/Ben Gordon/Michael Redd
> SF-Carmelo Anthony/Shane Battier/Joe Johnson
> PF-Dwight Howard/Amare Stoudemire
> C- Greg Oden/Chris Kaman
> 
> I think that team would give us our best shot at the gold. Two big weak points of Team USA, not enough shooters, so you add Gordon, and Redd while retaining Hinrich, Battier, and Johnson to also shoot. Secondly, we had too many players who strength is athleticism, Lebron is redundant, and he doesn't defend or shoot well, so he gets left home. Kobe is a no brainer, he can shoot, defend, and go inside and on the fastbreak. Third, we had a ***** frontcourt. We were getting abused by a Michael Sweetney impersonator, so add Oden, Kaman, and Amare to make a truly tough frontcourt.



Add Chris Kaman for toughness are you nuts, he would get dominated in FIBA ball. But he would probably fit in better than anyone else we had. Other than that I agree with all your picks. And where the hell is LeBron? He shut down Dirk pretty much in the 2nd half of the gremany game. 


Now back to the current team, I have said it since the Germany game if we medal then we would have shot like crazy from outside. Why was Jamison never played, or Brad Miller guys who could hit the international three? Thats what we needed instead of LeBron and Wade trying to turn into jumpshooters and force stuff that isn't even there. I know it's a dead horse but we rely way too much on are athleticism. It's true we do have fundamentals and skills, but why not use that instead of athleticism which only works against weak ball-handling teams. We need to go back to the basics here in America. We should tailor our rules to the FIBA rules and the style they play. Go back to team basketball which was last seen regularly before Jordan was in the league. This is getting out of hand this is supposed to be our best sport, and yet we might not even be one of the best 3 teams in the world. If D'antoni was coach this would only destroy things worse, because teams like Spain, Argentina, and Greece will get back on defense, and we don't have a PG like Steve Nash to run the show. Larry Brown was a good coach for FIBA except for the fact he needed to open his offense up a little. The NBA also has no defense being played, absolutely none. Thats why players like LeBron and Dwayne Wade can dominate. They are two of my favorite players but FIBA ball exposed them as basketball players. The NBA should allow zones and trapping a lot more, and take out that STUPID 3 in the key defensive rule. We have the best individual players, but like someone stated we have no bball IQ. We play a 1 on 1 style of basketball not team basketball. Hopefully this is the real wake up call, but then again I can see us not doing anything about it again and accepting nothing at the '08 olympics (as in a medal.) The NBA is corrupting the minds of LeBron and Dwayne Wade saying just use your overwhelming athleticism to get into the lane, instead of saying use your overwhelming SKILLS to make your team better and help your team win. 



Also Futruxsten or however its spelled said it was racist to say players like LeBron and Dwayne Wade have no fundamentals. We do have fundamentals thats not even the point the point is we have no idea how to use them to make others around us better or in a team game. We rely too much on are athleticism thats why we cannot win these international competitions. Thats what the meant by taking a stab at LeBron and Dawynes skills. They don't know how to use them because of what the NBA has done to their games. You can't preach one on one play and then expect them to know how to play team ball, you just can't do it. I don't think the players are at fault for this but the NBA is a major fault. Thast why I try not to watch NBA games anymore because it's not real basketball. Until the NBA goes back to real basketball we are gong to to really bad in these international competitions. Thast what everyone was trying to say not that Bron and Wade don't have skills because they have more than Ginbolil and Gasol and Baby Shaq. The NBA just teaches them not to use them in a team oriented way.


----------



## kironte

neural_dream said:


> :clap:
> 
> American basketball is still way better than European and S.American. It took a spectacular performance from the European champions to beat you, and even then it was very close until Carmelo's last shot. .


Way better????
Win Argentina and we´ll discuss it.



SPMJ said:


> The US team just needs more time than 3 weeks of training camp.


you said it.
the other NT have been playing together since they were juniors, so of course their teamwork is better.
If only the US team worked together along the years they will be virtually unstopable, they sure dont lack talent


----------



## neural_dream

kironte said:


> Way better????
> Win Argentina and we´ll discuss it.


I'm afraid my team won't have the chance to meet Argentina, as we have to play against Spain .

I suppose you meant the States to beat Argentina, in order to prove they are better. I didn't say that they have to prove anything. I just said that IMO American basketball IS way better. The fact that their national team isn't equally good atm doesn't mean anything to me. They will be better next time and even if they don't win the Olympics either they will surely be a joy to watch.


----------



## Sad Mafioso

*Re: Greece trounce Team USA*



futuristxen said:


> Hey I have consistently had the rest of the world's back when it comes to their basketball acumen. I considered, rightly so, Argentina the favorites for Athens. Some of these teams are ultra talented, and they are playing smart systems very comfortably.
> 
> But everytime the US faces adversity, hell everytime period, we hear about how Americans(and it is usually implied African Americans) have no fundementals, don't know how to play the game, and are only good at it because they are naturally fast or jump high. There's a lot of racism and a lot of lack of understanding, particularly amongst europeans. Racism is terrible in europe, and many of those racist idiots come out in droves whenever something like this happens. So pardon my frustration in getting prepared for another onslaught. But now that it's over they can go back to making monkey noises at Samuel Eto'o and leave americans alone. Most americans following Team USA are following the team because they are NBA fans. But international, specifically european teams, make it an ultra-nationalistic thing.
> 
> Getting to the semi-finals of any one and done world tournament should not be considered failure.


You do realize this is an international competition right? Ofcourse everyone is going to be nationalistic about it when the pride of your country is involved in it, the name Hellas across the jersey has a MEANING to it, maybe to americans the USA tag on the front doesn't, but that's another story.

Just swallow your pride. Bow down faithfully, bow down splendedly to the Greek gods for they have swayed the US myth


----------



## kironte

neural_dream said:


> I'm afraid my team won't have the chance to meet Argentina, as we have to play against Spain .
> 
> I suppose you meant the States to beat Argentina, in order to prove they are better. I didn't say that they have to prove anything. I just said that IMO American basketball IS way better. The fact that their national team isn't equally good atm doesn't mean anything to me. They will be better next time and even if they don't win the Olympics either they will surely be a joy to watch.


I agree with the fact that de nba is the best league in the world, but not way better than the european thoughest leagues(although it is usually way more spectacular)

American basketball may be the best but european and southamerican are slowly catching up


----------



## neural_dream

*Re: Greece trounce Team USA*



Sad Mafioso said:


> You do realize this is an international competition right? Ofcourse everyone is going to be nationalistic about it when the pride of your country is involved in it, the name Hellas across the jersey has a MEANING to it, maybe to americans the USA tag on the front doesn't, but that's another story.


That's a bit too much S M. The USA tag means a lot to the Americans, no less than Hellas to the Greeks.

The thing is that Europeans usually go to sport for war, while ..... now let's not continue this and stick to the first bit of the sentence. We have old wars to reenact every time we play basketball, soccer or go to the Olympics. Greeks Vs Turks, French, Irish, Scots, Welsh Vs English. Serbs Vs Croats, Russians Vs Lithuanians. Maybe childish and immature way to view sports, and Americans don't understand this, but that's how it is and brings passionate plays and wins. That's all.


----------



## DaBruins

*Re: Greece trounce Team USA*

my team:

1 - Baron Davis
2 - Kobe Bryant
3 - Carmelo Anthony
4 - Dwight Howard
5 - Ben Wallace

bench: Lebron, Wade, Battier, Paul, Morrison, Brand, Oden, Duncan


----------



## Andrejos

America gets beaten in last 3 big tournaments, simply, because it didn't play with their best players. No big philosophy needed. America isn't that much ahead from rest of the world like it use to be, so it could play 3d option players and still win. Look at the games against European teams. Slovenians and Germans hold tight in first half, but lack of quality players and physical power cost them in second half; Italians nearly won, thanks to Melo they didn't. And now Greece. 

FIBA rules, whatever rules. Send Shaq, Duncan, KG, Kobe, Ray, Kidd, Iverson, Carter, Mcgrady and you'll win any team easily. Send those guys you did, and you'll loose. Face it.


----------



## bbasok

congrats greece you deserved it


----------



## scooter

*Re: Greece trounce Team USA*



futuristxen said:


> Nothing to gain, everything to lose.


This is the reality of it. The rules, especially the dimension of the lane and ability to play a pure zone inside the lane, change the game dramatically. Its a huge advantage for the foreign teams. Sure we still smoked them when the talent comparison amounted to Jordan and Malone playing against 13 year olds. But now the difference in rules and officiating is enough to close the gap, which still, by the way, exists. If you don't think so, maybe you'd like to explain to me how Gasol is a better player than Duncan. Or how Spanoulis is a better player than Anthony.

I don't like the FIBA rules. To me its ridiculous to have an offensive three second rule in that huge painted area when the entire defense can camp in there. That's crappy basketball. Add that to the smaller court, shorter games and short three point line, and you have a sport that neutralizes speed and athleticism. That's a lousy sport. Sports should require skills but clearly superior athletes with similar skills should win. FIBA basketball is a game where Fabricio Oberto, a third string NBA player owing largely to his lack of athleticism, can star on a championship team. That doesn't impress me much or convince me that Oberto is a great player. It just helps prove to me that the rules are stacked against the American team. If they were 30 points better than the other guys, they would still win. But when they are 20 points better, they get beat. To me that sucks.


----------



## TRON

wow what a shocker headline that I got to wake up to today, I'll have to watch the game later, but from the box score I have to wonder....

what's up up with Coach K and small ball?

Jamison DNP
Miller DNP
Brand 12 minutes
Howard 12 minutes
Bosh 5 minutes

I know that zone defences were implemented but were the bigs properly utilized in this tournement?


----------



## synergy825

*Re: Greece trounce Team USA*



scooter said:


> This is the reality of it. The rules, especially the dimension of the lane and ability to play a pure zone inside the lane, change the game dramatically. Its a huge advantage for the foreign teams. Sure we still smoked them when the talent comparison amounted to Jordan and Malone playing against 13 year olds. But now the difference in rules and officiating is enough to close the gap, which still, by the way, exists. If you don't think so, maybe you'd like to explain to me how Gasol is a better player than Duncan. Or how Spanoulis is a better player than Anthony.
> 
> I don't like the FIBA rules. To me its ridiculous to have an offensive three second rule in that huge painted area when the entire defense can camp in there. That's crappy basketball. Add that to the smaller court, shorter games and short three point line, and you have a sport that neutralizes speed and athleticism. That's a lousy sport. Sports should require skills but clearly superior athletes with similar skills should win. FIBA basketball is a game where Fabricio Oberto, a third string NBA player owing largely to his lack of athleticism, can star on a championship team. That doesn't impress me much or convince me that Oberto is a great player. It just helps prove to me that the rules are stacked against the American team. If they were 30 points better than the other guys, they would still win. But when they are 20 points better, they get beat. To me that sucks.


Crappy basketball is how Wade plays in the NBA. Superstars just drive into a group of people and expect to get a call. Now that's crappy basketball. That's why Wade is a superstar yet he doesn't know how to shoot consistently. Bad fundamentals is what exists in the NBA. That's why they haven't produced a gold medal in several years.


----------



## SirCharles34

*Team USA loses to Greece in Semis*

SAITAMA, Japan -- Fed up with its recent failures, USA Basketball assembled a new program with a new plan and a new coach in Mike Krzyzewski.
The end result was all too familiar. Greece used a sizzling stretch of shooting across the middle two quarters to turn a 12-point deficit into a 14-point lead, and beat the Americans 101-95 Friday in the semifinals of the FIBA World Championship.

"To lose any game is a shock to us," U.S. star Carmelo Anthony said. "We came in with the mentality to win the game and the gold medal." Instead, the best Anthony can do now is add another bronze to his collection.
Greece (8-0) can earn a world title to go with the European championship it won in 2005 with a victory over Spain in the gold medal game Sunday. Spain (8-0) beat Argentina 75-74 on Friday night.

"They played like a champion plays," U.S. forward Shane Battier said of Greece. The Americans will have to wait at least two more years to remember what that feels like.

Click here to read more..
Can only win the silver medal.


----------



## #1AntoineWalkerFan

*Re: Team USA loses to Greece in Semis*

usa can only win bronze now....


and people forget how good greece and argentina and spain really are...i am surprised usa was ranked number one in this tournament...i knew they would have problems with a team like greece due to the size of their big men and their amazing outside shooters...well i guess the guys just gotta fight for the bronze again and wait 2 more years for the olympics


----------



## bball2223

*Re: Greece trounce Team USA*



synergy825 said:


> Bad fundamentals is what exists in the NBA. That's why they haven't produced a gold medal in several years.


Bingo


----------



## Bartholomew Hunt

*Re: Greece beats USA 101 - 95*

This goes back to what I said in prior threads, so no big suprise. I am encouraged by the steps we are taking to get back on top. I think by the Olympics, we'll be in much better shape. Stay positive USA fans.


----------



## knickstorm

*Re: Greece beats USA 101 - 95*

i'm tired of this whining. we lost fair and square. Yea we missed ft's but so did Greece. I dont care if they were together for years that's not gonna help you hit more 3's as the US again like vs germany was horrendous shooting the long ball. PLaying together for just 3 weeks is no excuse for letting Baby SHaq beat you down the floor dor dunks and layups. Neither is it for not being able to adjust on the pick and roll when it's run for the 500th time. Greece went one on one a number of times and succeeded. "gelling" isn't going to help you keep spanoulis in front of you, my god the guy crossed over everybody and their mothers for lay ups. Now the US probably faces an even tougher team in argentina.


----------



## f22egl

*Re: Team USA loses to Greece in Semis*

Too many missed free throws, not enough 3 point shooting but the main reason is that they played terrible team defense.


----------



## f22egl

*Re: Team USA loses to Greece in Semis*

Lebron being Lebronze.



> The U.S. seemed in control after Joe Johnson's 3-pointer gave the Americans a 33-21 lead with about 6 1/2 minutes left in the second quarter. It was around then that James told his teammates on the bench: "They don't know what to do."


http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5748375


----------



## 4BiddenKnight

*Re: Team USA loses to Greece in Semis*

What? Isn't team USA supposed to stroll through this tournament like nothing can touch them?


----------



## SirCharles34

Was this game on anyone's radar before we lost. I didn't even know we were playing. Everyone already penciled us in for the GOLD. 

Does anyone know if this will be replayed on ESPN?


----------



## SirCharles34

Andrejos said:


> America gets beaten in last 3 big tournaments, simply, because it didn't play with their best players.
> FIBA rules, whatever rules. Send Shaq, Duncan, KG, Kobe, Ray, Kidd, Iverson, Carter, Mcgrady and you'll win any team easily. Send those guys you did, and you'll loose. Face it.


LeBron, Melo, and Wade sound like scrubs to me...


----------



## 4BiddenKnight

*Re: Greece trounce Team USA*



scooter said:


> I don't like the FIBA rules. To me its ridiculous to have an offensive three second rule in that huge painted area when the entire defense can camp in there. That's crappy basketball. Add that to the smaller court, shorter games and short three point line, and you have a sport that neutralizes speed and athleticism. That's a lousy sport. Sports should require skills but clearly superior athletes with similar skills should win. FIBA basketball is a game where Fabricio Oberto, a third string NBA player owing largely to his lack of athleticism, can star on a championship team. That doesn't impress me much or convince me that Oberto is a great player. It just helps prove to me that the rules are stacked against the American team. If they were 30 points better than the other guys, they would still win. But when they are 20 points better, they get beat. To me that sucks.


Lol, sounds to me like an FIBA hater. FIBA's rules benefit chemistry, team play and those along the lines of team. NBA's rule benefits showmanship, athleticism and somewhere along the lines of that.

Thanks to you detailing the FIBA rules about how there isn't a 3 in the key rule in that trapezoid paint area, I understand more on how shooting's the way to go. I understand more on why the NBA's rules benefits athleticism and individual skills (3 in the key for defense is a big difference).


----------



## Andrejos

Basketball team consist of 12 players


----------



## Dre

*Re: Team USA loses to Greece in Semis*

I guess this is an indictment on US basketball. We gotta send everyone home and come up with a whole new system or we're doomed forever.


----------



## myELFboy

*Re: Team USA loses to Greece in Semis*

Sloppy, pathetic, embarrassing. I suppose we shouldn't be too surprised though; it's like the WWF going to the Olympics to compete in wrestling...the NBA going into international play to play basketball is a similar comparison.


----------



## SirCharles34

*Re: Team USA loses to Greece in Semis*

We should just send the NCAA Champions to play... I'm sure they'll have more fire to win.


----------



## Panathinaikos13

HELLAS OLE OLEEEEEEEE















































we rule!!!


----------



## Pioneer10

Great run by the Greeks: winnign the last Euro championship and at least a silver in the worlds.


----------



## IbizaXL

*Re: Team USA loses to Greece in Semis*

wasnt there a thread about this already? oh wait it got moved...


----------



## IbizaXL

*Re: Team USA loses to Greece in Semis*



4BiddenKnight said:


> What? Isn't team USA supposed to stroll through this tournament like nothing can touch them?


who said that?


----------



## BG7

We seriously need a new coach.










Coach K is good, he tried to dress them up and make them look classy, but when it came to on the court, there was no sense of balls out hustle, no sense of a set offense, no sense of team basketall, it was more like an allstar game. There is one thing a coach like Skiles will bring over pretty much ANYONE in the pool of coaches in America, and that is keeping the players ACCOUNTABLE.


----------



## Eternal

sloth said:


> We seriously need a new coach.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coach K is good, he tried to dress them up and make them look classy, but when it came to on the court, there was no sense of balls out hustle, no sense of a set offense, no sense of team basketall, it was more like an allstar game. There is one thing a coach like Skiles will bring over pretty much ANYONE in the pool of coaches in America, and that is keeping the players ACCOUNTABLE.


No..

I love how we're getting all these new members that all of a sudden decide to register when their greek team wins.. amazing.


----------



## OneBadLT123

*Re: Team USA loses to Greece in Semis*

well, i saw it happening eventually. USA basketball style is just inferior to international ball.


----------



## Jonathan Watters

Forget the 5 minutes in 5 minutes out BS rotations. It doesn't work. You can't put an all-star team out there against a real team. This year was a step in the right direction, but not far enough. 

Go with these 5, and give them 30/35 MPG. If a player can't handle playing 5 minutes per, don't bring him along. These are the guys that can play the style we need to play to win internationally. So do the tough thing, Jerry, and get these guys on the court! 

PG - Kirk Hinrich
SG - Joe Johnson/Michael Redd
SF - Shane Battier
PF - Lebron James
C - Dwight Howard


----------



## bball2223

Jonathan Watters said:


> Forget the 5 minutes in 5 minutes out BS rotations. It doesn't work. You can't put an all-star team out there against a real team. This year was a step in the right direction, but not far enough.
> 
> Go with these 5, and give them 30/35 MPG. If a player can't handle playing 5 minutes per, don't bring him along. These are the guys that can play the style we need to play to win internationally. So do the tough thing, Jerry, and get these guys on the court!
> 
> PG - Kirk Hinrich
> SG - Joe Johnson/Michael Redd
> SF - Shane Battier
> PF - Lebron James
> C - Dwight Howard


LeBron at PF is a total waste of his ability to get his teammates involved and his slashing ability. Have Johnson/or Redd come off the bench behind LeBron, put Howard at the 4 and Oden or Brad Miller at the 5.


----------



## futuristxen

bball2223 said:


> LeBron at PF is a total waste of his ability to get his teammates involved and his slashing ability. Have Johnson/or Redd come off the bench behind LeBron, put Howard at the 4 and Oden or Brad Miller at the 5.


The idea is to have him guard the international 4, but play point guard on offense. Because he has shown he matches up really well with most international 4's, and then on the other end you just want to surround him with finishers and let him go to work.


----------



## bball2223

futuristxen said:


> The idea is to have him guard the international 4, but play point guard on offense. Because he has shown he matches up really well with most international 4's, and then on the other end you just want to surround him with finishers and let him go to work.



ok well then yes that is a good idea. by apologies mr.watters


----------



## BG7

Lebron doesn't really have a place on this team imo. He can't shoot, has played ****ty defense.

If defending Dirk is all Lebron is going to be good for in the olympics, we don't need him then, since Germany isn't too big of a concern.


----------



## bball2223

sloth said:


> Lebron doesn't really have a place on this team imo. He can't shoot, has played ****ty defense.
> 
> If defending Dirk is all Lebron is going to be good for in the olympics, we don't need him then, since Germany isn't too big of a concern.



Your right, hell lets just bring the Chicago Bulls to the Olympics no one can beat them anyway.


----------



## Panathinaikos13

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KP4eQ3aCLk0


----------



## John

*Re: Greece trounce Team USA*



futuristxen said:


> I'll take my 82 games of the league with the best players in the world. It's not like we don't know what these players can do.
> 
> Some of you international fans are no worse than american fans who watch the world cup and are like "Ronaldinho sucks".
> 
> Ronaldinho did suck in the world cup. And Zidane was awesome.
> 
> But who was the player who won his league and Champions League and is regarded as the best in the game? Versus who was thought to be washed up, whose team thought of benching him, who played for an all-star team that couldn't win anything?
> 
> Dissing Lebron or any of the top NBA players for a poor performance in the world championships is like taking shots at Ronaldinho, Wayne Rooney, and Steven Gerrard after their poor world cups.


This post is a freaking Joke. But if you only have second tier star of the world, you would have to defend like the wya this guy is doing! Jordan never have to be defended like that! hahha James was a non factor in the game!


----------



## RoddneyThaRippa

So the US lost one game, by six points, and the USA Basketball fandom is in disarray? 

Honestly, you all make me sick, as people. It just goes to show how racist America still is, which makes me wonder why these black players even participate. Yes, I said it. USA fans won't back up the team because they are racist. I don't give a **** if no one agrees with me, because it is a fact. 

They lost *one* game. *One. * 

If you don't think this team will be a helluva lot better in '08, you're wrong. They threw the team together three weeks before the tournament. Three weeks, and the USA is expected to win this tournament?

The same fans praising "team ball" conveniently forget to mention the short span the USA team has been together for. Apparently, a team thrown together for three weeks has learned all the nuances in team play. 

It doesn't matter though. I have no doubt that the USA will win the Olympics in '08. If they can accomplish what they did in three weeks of practice, the sky is the limit.


----------



## BG7

RoddneyThaRippa said:


> So the US lost one game, by six points, and the USA Basketball fandom is in disarray?
> 
> Honestly, you all make me sick, as people. It just goes to show how racist America still is, which makes me wonder why these black players even participate. Yes, I said it. USA fans won't back up the team because they are racist. I don't give a **** if no one agrees with me, because it is a fact.
> 
> They lost *one* game. *One. *
> 
> If you don't think this team will be a helluva lot better in '08, you're wrong. They threw the team together three weeks before the tournament. Three weeks, and the USA is expected to win this tournament?
> 
> The same fans praising "team ball" conveniently forget to mention the short span the USA team has been together for. Apparently, a team thrown together for three weeks has learned all the nuances in team play.
> 
> It doesn't matter though. I have no doubt that the USA will win the Olympics in '08. If they can accomplish what they did in three weeks of practice, the sky is the limit.


Here's a little phrase that I think describes USA basketball. "If your not number one, then your nothing".


----------



## Jonathan Watters

Heh. Yeah, the US only had three weeks to prepare for this thing. 

Did Jerry Colangelo's memo say this thing was taking place in 2007?

Last I checked, the international players are on the court most of the season for different teams just like the US players are. 

EUROPEAN BASKETBALL DOES NOT EXIST. EUROPEAN BASKETBALL DOES NOT EXIST. EUROPEAN BASKETBALL DOES NOT EXIST. 

Maybe if you say it enough, that will make it true.


----------



## RoddneyThaRippa

sloth said:


> Here's a little phrase that I think describes USA basketball. "If your not number one, then your nothing".


If that doesn't come from the team itself, it means nothing. You aren't playing the game, so your view of their expectations is meaningless. 

And what, really, does being number one mean? From what I can see, they'd like to win every tournament they enter. The important thing, however, is to win the Olympics in '08, right? If that's the case, why all the pandomonia over one loss?


----------



## futuristxen

RoddneyThaRippa said:


> So the US lost one game, by six points, and the USA Basketball fandom is in disarray?
> 
> Honestly, you all make me sick, as people. It just goes to show how racist America still is, which makes me wonder why these black players even participate. Yes, I said it. USA fans won't back up the team because they are racist. I don't give a **** if no one agrees with me, because it is a fact.
> 
> They lost *one* game. *One. *
> 
> If you don't think this team will be a helluva lot better in '08, you're wrong. They threw the team together three weeks before the tournament. Three weeks, and the USA is expected to win this tournament?
> 
> The same fans praising "team ball" conveniently forget to mention the short span the USA team has been together for. Apparently, a team thrown together for three weeks has learned all the nuances in team play.
> 
> It doesn't matter though. I have no doubt that the USA will win the Olympics in '08. If they can accomplish what they did in three weeks of practice, the sky is the limit.



I agree.

Lack of Fundementals, Run and Dunk--same old code words for 'black'. Even though neither of these terms apply to players on this team, it's the perception. Can't shoot people say. Because there's not enough stereotypical whities on the team. Think of how many people wanted Adam Morrison on the team instead of Shane Battier?

I just hope USA basketball has better leadership at the top and they stick with their plan. I don't know why it's so hard for people to view this as a process. The goal has always been 08. This team wasn't built to win the worlds. It was built to win by 08.

Excellent post Rodney. I'm glad you posted it. Because I've been thinking it, and people on other boards I post at have been saying it all tournament long.


----------



## BG7

RoddneyThaRippa said:


> If that doesn't come from the team itself, it means nothing. You aren't playing the game, so your view of their expectations is meaningless.
> 
> And what, really, does being number one mean? From what I can see, they'd like to win every tournament they enter. The important thing, however, is to win the Olympics in '08, right? If that's the case, why all the pandomonia over one loss?


Because we haven't been #1 for 6 years (2002-2008). And that assuming they win in 2008. I don't know, I'm started to get pissed that they lost the last three tournaments, its ridiculous.


----------



## futuristxen

Jonathan Watters said:


> Last I checked, the international players are on the court most of the season for different teams just like the US players are.


It's not about that. It's about having the same system and the same players over a span of time and building continuity by playing with each other. The same Spain team that is in the Finals here today is almost the exact same Spain team that finished 6th in Athens. They didn't blow their team up. They stuck with their team and style of play, and are now being rewarded. We've seen almost the exact same Argentina team and style of play for almost 8 years now. Greece has the same core that won Eurobasket and has been together for a long time.

It's not about having a team that sleeps together for an entire year. It's about having organization. Coach K is the first long term national head coach in US basketball history I believe. Which is staggering when you think about it. Most sports take that organization for granted, but in the USA we've always changed things every single time around never building any continuity. And now it's finally caught up with us.

This isn't rocket science. Give this team time. It has the pieces to get this done. We'll add Kobe, Amare, and Oden, and pick this up again in qualifying. Come the olympics in 08, we should have one of the best teams in american history, whether they win or not, because we will have combined our awesome talent within a coherent team vision.


----------



## futuristxen

sloth said:


> Because we haven't been #1 for 6 years (2002-2008). And that assuming they win in 2008. I don't know, I'm started to get pissed that they lost the last three tournaments, its ridiculous.


Do you understand why 08 will be a completely diffrent style of team than the previous six years? Why is this so hard to grasp? These guys are going to playing in international competition for 3 years by the time they get to Bejiing. You don't think that addresses many of the problems? If you don't then you don't truly understand what is going on here.


----------



## RoddneyThaRippa

sloth said:


> Because we haven't been #1 for 6 years (2002-2008). And that assuming they win in 2008. I don't know, I'm started to get pissed that they lost the last three tournaments, its ridiculous.


The expectation is for the US to win every single game. That's ridiculous. 

They've had a three week training camp and still came within one win of the gold medal game. Is it disappointing that they lost? Yes. Is it the end of the world, or indicative of an underlying "problem" with the team? No, it's not.


----------



## futuristxen

And again. In a single elimination tournament anything can happen. It's like people just forget all the crazy things that happen in college basketball in March.

You want to give yourself the best chance you can get, but at the end of the day, unless the competition is absolute crap, it's a lot of luck you'll be needing. We nearly lost to Lithuania back in Sydney, and I believe France gave us a scare innnn Atlanta? A ball bounces a diffrent way and we would be looking at ten years without the gold.


----------



## BG7

RoddneyThaRippa said:


> The expectation is for the US to win every single game. That's ridiculous.
> 
> They've had a three week training camp and still came within one win of the gold medal game. Is it disappointing that they lost? Yes. Is it the end of the world, or indicative of an underlying "problem" with the team? No, it's not.


Two wins within.


----------



## Panathinaikos13

Poso Tsouzei?peite Mou Poso?


----------



## BG7

futuristxen said:


> Do you understand why 08 will be a completely diffrent style of team than the previous six years? Why is this so hard to grasp? These guys are going to playing in international competition for 3 years by the time they get to Bejiing. You don't think that addresses many of the problems? If you don't then you don't truly understand what is going on here.


And what if we don't win in 2008? Its no garauntee, we haven't been the best nation in basketball for 6 years going into 2008, whats to say we'll win it there. 

Until Coach K can develop some form of offense, then we'll continue to struggle. The coaching is inept, look at the game today, we weren't trapping withing the last 2 minutes, it was down to like 36 seconds before we started trapping, and that was just grasping onto a straw of hope at that point, we should have been doing our full court trap earlier, but we weren't, and loss the game. This entire 3 year commitment, all about 2008 is all bullcrap. I don't think a few weeks a summer, than having these players go back to their teams who will tell them something else, coming back, having their agents tell them to try to steal the show in the olympics, is building anything. If we could just assemble a team with tougher big men, and better shooters we'd do better. We don't need players like Lebron out there that don't contribute much just because they're a big name. We need Ben Gordon, Jason Collins, guys that could fill a role than another athletic can't shoot. Nice that we are having Kobe in 2008, because with him leading the team, we won't have this bull**** mentality that we have right now of its all about 2008, he won't stand for losing at all. These players are too soft, with their its all about 2008 rationalization, no excuses for us to not win this tournament, simple as that.


----------



## Panathinaikos13

The Aftermath In Three Parts

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_lt7NrqodM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tBdHByLJdg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FSvsEUDIuw


----------



## Jonathan Watters

So where in the hell has our organization been for the past, say, 10 years?!? 

It's ridiculous to say that USA Basketball isn't in shambles. We are clearly on the way up, but at the moment, we are still a complete joke. We've had every opportunity to put together a coherent team, just like everybody else, and we simply haven't. We thought we were so much better than everybody else that we didn't have to try. How arrogant is that? Can you really blame the rest of the world for rubbing this loss in our faces? 

The answer isn't white people hating black people. 

The answer is that the team sucks because it isn't a team. It's an all-star exhibition show, nothing more coherent than the freaking Globetrotters until this season. Europe is BETTER than us! On their turf at their game, of course, but still - BETTER!!!! 

One more thing - I resent the fact that I am labelled a racist because I think Adam Morrison deserved to make the team. It is only a matter of time before everybody wakes up and realizes just how incredible this guy really is. Give him a couple of years in the NBA, and he will be the premier international-level scorer in the world. Say what you want about him being one-dimensional, but he never held onto the ball for 10 seconds on every play before making a move or forced Gonzaga's offense into stagnation the way that Carmello has in this tournament. Never mind the fact that Gonzaga needed Morrison to score 30 a game to win, and had players to do the other things, and that Gonzaga almost always won. 



futuristxen said:


> It's not about that. It's about having the same system and the same players over a span of time and building continuity by playing with each other. The same Spain team that is in the Finals here today is almost the exact same Spain team that finished 6th in Athens. They didn't blow their team up. They stuck with their team and style of play, and are now being rewarded. We've seen almost the exact same Argentina team and style of play for almost 8 years now. Greece has the same core that won Eurobasket and has been together for a long time.
> 
> It's not about having a team that sleeps together for an entire year. It's about having organization. Coach K is the first long term national head coach in US basketball history I believe. Which is staggering when you think about it. Most sports take that organization for granted, but in the USA we've always changed things every single time around never building any continuity. And now it's finally caught up with us.
> 
> This isn't rocket science. Give this team time. It has the pieces to get this done. We'll add Kobe, Amare, and Oden, and pick this up again in qualifying. Come the olympics in 08, we should have one of the best teams in american history, whether they win or not, because we will have combined our awesome talent within a coherent team vision.


----------



## bball2223

sloth said:


> And what if we don't win in 2008? Its no garauntee, we haven't been the best nation in basketball for 6 years going into 2008, whats to say we'll win it there.
> 
> Until Coach K can develop some form of offense, then we'll continue to struggle. The coaching is inept, look at the game today, we weren't trapping withing the last 2 minutes, it was down to like 36 seconds before we started trapping, and that was just grasping onto a straw of hope at that point, we should have been doing our full court trap earlier, but we weren't, and loss the game. This entire 3 year commitment, all about 2008 is all bullcrap. I don't think a few weeks a summer, than having these players go back to their teams who will tell them something else, coming back, having their agents tell them to try to steal the show in the olympics, is building anything. If we could just assemble a team with tougher big men, and better shooters we'd do better. We don't need players like Lebron out there that don't contribute much just because they're a big name. We need Ben Gordon, Jason Collins, guys that could fill a role than another athletic can't shoot. Nice that we are having Kobe in 2008, because with him leading the team, we won't have this bull**** mentality that we have right now of its all about 2008, he won't stand for losing at all. These players are too soft, with their its all about 2008 rationalization, no excuses for us to not win this tournament, simple as that.



First off we don't need Scott Skiles or Ben Gordon the only Bull we need is Kirk Hinrich. Second off why does everyone blame coach K for us losing. Sure he made a few dumb substitutions, but he doesn't shoot the ball, he doesn't pass the ball, he doesn't defend, he doesn't shoot free-throws, he doesn't do any of that the PLAYERS LOST us the game, not Coach K.We shot like **** from the free-throw line, and we didn't defend the pick and roll worth ****. It's the players fault for missing the free-throws, and the players fault for not defending the pick and roll well. You guys who sit at a computer all day and think you know something always blame the coach, well Coach K had nothing to do with are loss today, we lost because of the players. You guys are like Oh Coach K didn't teach them how to defend a pick and roll, you learn how to defend a pick and roll in High School for christ sake's it's the players fault because they didn't adjust. The USA could have fronted Baby Shaq or double down on him instead the PLAYERS left him single covered. We don't need a new offense, a new defense, or a new coach for the Beijing olympics we need some new players who are going to know what to do when a team runs a pick and roll (which is high school ****), make their free-throws, and move the ball around and play smart team basketball. Coach K didn't tell them to jack up all those threes, I don't know where some of you guys get this stuff from, they do it not Coach K. So now instead of blaming it on Coach K, blame it on the people who lost the game the LeBrons, the Melo;s the Wade's, ETC.


----------



## bball2223

Jonathan Watters said:


> So where in the hell has our organization been for the past, say, 10 years?!?
> 
> It's ridiculous to say that USA Basketball isn't in shambles. We are clearly on the way up, but at the moment, we are still a complete joke. We've had every opportunity to put together a coherent team, just like everybody else, and we simply haven't. We thought we were so much better than everybody else that we didn't have to try. How arrogant is that? Can you really blame the rest of the world for rubbing this loss in our faces?
> 
> The answer isn't white people hating black people.
> 
> The answer is that the team sucks because it isn't a team. It's an all-star exhibition show, nothing more coherent than the freaking Globetrotters until this season. Europe is BETTER than us! On their turf at their game, of course, but still - BETTER!!!!
> 
> One more thing - I resent the fact that I am labelled a racist because I think Adam Morrison deserved to make the team. It is only a matter of time before everybody wakes up and realizes just how incredible this guy really is. Give him a couple of years in the NBA, and he will be the premier international-level scorer in the world. Say what you want about him being one-dimensional, but he never held onto the ball for 10 seconds on every play before making a move or forced Gonzaga's offense into stagnation the way that Carmello has in this tournament. Never mind the fact that Gonzaga needed Morrison to score 30 a game to win, and had players to do the other things, and that Gonzaga almost always won.


Now your saying Morrison is better than Carmelo? Did you watch any of the games, he saved our asses in almost every game.


----------



## Jonathan Watters

And if you folks think Kobe Bryant is the answer for this team, you have absolutely no concept of what winning basketball games is about. We have Kobe Bryant x10 on the current roster. If Carmello, LeBron, and Wade are still around we will be worse in 2008 because of his presence, mark my words.


----------



## Jonathan Watters

bball2223 said:


> Now your saying Morrison is better than Carmelo? Did you watch any of the games, he saved our asses in almost every game.


Morrison fits better in a system that will lead to wins on the international level.

Obviously Carmello is a better NBA player right now than Adam. He is a better international player than Adam right now. But in two years? Adam's skillset will be better suited for international competition. Book that. 

In the end, the ball needs to be in LeBron James' hands in the halfcourt. He creates everything. We need a Morrison type that can draw defenders, create offense, and spot up, and a second ballhandler/shooter like Hinrich. A defensive specialist, such as Battier, would be nice as well. I would throw Dwight Howard in at center. He doesn't require shots, can dominate physically, and rebounds the living hell out of the ball. 

The only place Carmello really fits here is in James' spot. And to me, there's no comparison.


----------



## Sir Patchwork

This racism talk is ridiculous. 

When people say that teams like Greece and Argentina aren't as athletic as Team USA, is that racist towards them? No. It's just reality.


----------



## Panathinaikos13

lmao


----------



## MarioChalmers

Sir Patchwork said:


> This racism talk is ridiculous.
> 
> When people say that teams like Greece and Argentina aren't as athletic as Team USA, is that racist towards them? No. It's just reality.


Yeah, and the Greeks have Sofoklis Schortsianitis anyway. :clap:


----------



## gdonchow

I haven't got the time to read all the previous posts, but I think we all have a general idea as to why the US failed again: 
- *lack of pure shooters* (only one that comes to mind in the NBA, Ray Allen)
- *too much individual play* (watching carmelo at work was just ridiciulous. it was almost as if he wanted to prove he's just as good as wade and lebron, which he definitely isn't)
- *abysmal free throw shooting* 
- *inability to defend the high pick and role* (among many other defensive shortcomings)

While it may be a tad optimistic, I'd like to think USA will be back to its dominating ways by 2008 because quite simply by then they'll have had more time. And that's all they really need. More time to practice and get a feel for one another. Because, seriously there's no denying, the talent is there. Just add a couple shooters, and we'l be good to go. There's no need for an overhaul of the lineup. Any lineup of Americans are capable, and should beat any other team on the planet. It's really just a matter of executing.


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## BG7

gian said:


> Yeah, and the Greeks have Sofoklis Schortsianitis anyway. :clap:


And he's really weighing them down in the athleticism department if you know what I mean


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## King Sancho Fantastic

Dude! We had 3 FRIGGIN WEEKS! Give it some time. Were are still such a young squad and none of these guys play together. 


Oh and Kobe will completely dominate in international ball. His game is tailor made for it!


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## rpginferno

dwight howard should have been in at least 30 minutes, the greeks had no answer for him on the boards. Shane Battier should not have played 1 minute. Its totally crazy that a greek team not known for their offense scores 101 points against the US. Lebron and Dwayne were exposed in this tournament bc it's real basketball, not that nba one on one clear out junk thats geared to make these guys better than they really are, crazy rules like defensive 3 seconds. Ive always thought melo was the best of the 3, hes just so tough going to the bucket, unlike the other 2. And by the way 2 words would have caused this game to be a blowout : KOBE BRYANT-aka the best player on the planet


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## 77AJ

Team USA needs Kobe Bryant - enough said.


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## CJPhillips

Having covered the NBA and Canadian hoops in print and television for nearly 30 years - check my website at www.frozenhoops.com - I have stated as far back as perhaps 10 to 15 years ago that if you took a European national team and placed them in the NBA they would end up as NBA champions? How would Dallas or the Heat do against the national teams from Argentina, Spain, Italy, Brazil, France etc cetera and yes Greece? 
The NBA is ShowTime Baby with highlight reels and marketing while the sport of basketball is real and played on the hardwood five on five. 
It took a while for the Euros and the rest of the world to finally realize that the NBA was just Hollywood and nothin’ in Hollywood is real? 
Bring out Shaq, Kobe, Duncan, McGrady, Iverson, King James, Brand, Wallace, Wade, Garnett, Marion and whom ever else and the result would and may be the same. 
In a 1980 edition of Basketball Weekly I wrote that the NBA should think about changing the NBA All-Star Game to the USA vs. the World. Maybe its time to do just that and change the 2007 NBA All Star match as USA vs. the World. Just imagine the world team? 
Nash, Nowitzki, Yao, Kirilenko, Manu, Gasol, Parker, Nocioni, Stojakovic and the list goes on and on. 
I’d put my last Wilt Chamberlain rookie card on the line that the World team would win. 
Now bring back Chamberlain from the grave and rejuvenate Michael Jordan and then the ball will spin a different way.


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## RoddneyThaRippa

sloth said:


> Two wins within.


What exactly are you reading? I said that they came within a win of the gold medal *game*, not the gold medal. You're wrong.


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## RoddneyThaRippa

First you say this: 



> The answer isn't white people hating black people.


And then you say this: 



> The answer is that the team sucks because it isn't a team. It's an all-star exhibition show, nothing more coherent *than the freaking Globetrotters* until this season.


If that's not racist, I don't know what is. 



> One more thing - I resent the fact that I am labelled a racist because I think Adam Morrison deserved to make the team. It is only a matter of time before everybody wakes up and realizes just how incredible this guy really is. Give him a couple of years in the NBA, and he will be the premier international-level scorer in the world. Say what you want about him being one-dimensional, but he never held onto the ball for 10 seconds on every play before making a move or forced Gonzaga's offense into stagnation the way that Carmello has in this tournament. Never mind the fact that Gonzaga needed Morrison to score 30 a game to win, and had players to do the other things, and that Gonzaga almost always won.


I don't think you're racist because you wanted Morrison on the team. You're racist because of all the other bull**** you said. 

Honestly, I wanted Morrison on the team.


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## RoddneyThaRippa

Sir Patchwork said:


> This racism talk is ridiculous.
> 
> When people say that teams like Greece and Argentina aren't as athletic as Team USA, is that racist towards them? No. It's just reality.


Uh, it's a helluva lot more than that. If you can't at least understand why racism is being claimed, you need to reread the whole thread. 

Picking out a silly example and using it to dispute claims of racism is the easy way out. Honestly, I'm not surprised.


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## RoddneyThaRippa

Oh...

It's a team game, but the solution is Kobe Bryant. :whatever: 

I'm done arguing about this. The racist NBA and international fandom showed once again why it is the most incompetent and scrutinizing group in all of sports. 

Half of you don't even play pickup basketball on a regular basis, yet you understand the ins and outs of NBA and international basketball. 

I don't have a patriotic bone in my body, yet even I am embarrassed to live in America after reading this crap. I have no idea why I continue arguing about things like this - I just expected more.


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## o.iatlhawksfan

what are yall whining about, they lost to a very worthy opponent. Remember the team was blowing everybody away, until this game. i say keep the team the way it is, except add maybe Kobe, and greg Oden if he's ready and try to develop some chemistry.


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## futuristxen

terrier21 said:


> dwight howard should have been in at least 30 minutes, the greeks had no answer for him on the boards. Shane Battier should not have played 1 minute. Its totally crazy that a greek team not known for their offense scores 101 points against the US. Lebron and Dwayne were exposed in this tournament bc it's real basketball, not that nba one on one clear out junk thats geared to make these guys better than they really are, crazy rules like defensive 3 seconds. Ive always thought melo was the best of the 3, hes just so tough going to the bucket, unlike the other 2. And by the way 2 words would have caused this game to be a blowout : KOBE BRYANT-aka the best player on the planet



uh...Wade and Bron weren't exposed. Neither had an especially rough go of it in the tournament. Both played pretty well.

And you obviously don't watch the nba because with the new rules you can't clear a side. When the Cavs play Lebron is usually going against the entire defense. In the detroit series, you could watch the entire Detroit defense just watching James, and cheating over to him.

Dude still got to the rim.

People talked about how the US travels all the time too. But neither Bron nor Wade got called for traveling much this tournament. Or carrying. They both were able to do what they needed to do. Anyone that thinks we lost becaues of those guys, is wrong.


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## BG7

Rodney, just shut it. Your all white people are racist shickt got old last year, no need to go on with this. Globetrotters doesn't represent "black basketball", it represents basketball for entertainment, not winning basketball (although the globetrotters do have a good record  ).


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## gdonchow

CubanLaker said:


> Dude! We had 3 FRIGGIN WEEKS! Give it some time. Were are still such a young squad and none of these guys play together.
> 
> 
> *Oh and Kobe will completely dominate in international ball. His game is tailor made for it*!


Um, I seriously hope I am just missing the sarcasm in the bolded text above because if there was anyone whose game is the perfect example of the selfish, me-first attitude (which is in part, a reason for the recent demise of the US team), it's _Mr. Kobe Bryant_.

_ETA_: Word to the person who pointed out the stupidity of the guy who said Wade was exposed. He averaged 17+ppg (2nd on team), while shooting at 54% (2nd on team, excluding those who avg less than 8ppg)................ Yes, clearly Wade has been exposed as the horrible horrible player he really is.


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## Jonathan Watters

I just don't see the Globetrotters/racism bit at all. Maybe you are trying to say that the Globetrotters actually do play as a team, and would be competitive on the international circuit? That I shouldn't label them as being a source of entertainment, instead of an undefeated basketball powerhouse? 

And seriously, ripping a predominantly black team because they aren't playing as a team makes me a racist? I have to hold back what I believe to be the truth because I am white and saying something derogatory about a black man in any context is racist? 

If this is the case, it is you that is the racist. 

I will once more attempt to turn the argument away from what appears to be your fall-back argument anytime something happens to you that you don't like - The USA needs to build a real team, not just a group of superstars. It has nothing to do with their skin color, nothing to do with how hard they are trying, and nothing to do with how selfish or unselfish they are. It is obvious to anyone with half a brain that these guys are giving it their best. 

It has absolutely everything to do with the fact that a group of superstars is never going to find much success against a real basketball team. You can't put 5 white or black scorers on the court and expect to win games at this level. Carmello needs his shots to be effective. So do Wade and Kobe. So did all those Yugoslavians in Indianapolis a couple of years ago. 

Or, maybe you could just ignore my arguments and set up a skin color designation under people's avatars, so it is very clear who has the right to bash black players, and who doesn't. 




RoddneyThaRippa said:


> First you say this:
> 
> 
> 
> And then you say this:
> 
> 
> 
> If that's not racist, I don't know what is.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think you're racist because you wanted Morrison on the team. You're racist because of all the other bull**** you said.
> 
> Honestly, I wanted Morrison on the team.


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## Diable

Curly Neal could probably shoot from the outside better than this team still.I saw him around town about three months ago he looks pretty good to be as old as he is.


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## Sir Patchwork

RoddneyThaRippa said:


> Picking out a silly example and using it to dispute claims of racism is the easy way out. Honestly, I'm not surprised.


I agree that it's silly, which is what I hoped you would pick up on, because your claim is equally silly. You're crying over spilt milk here.


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## Darman

sloth said:


> Rodney, just shut it. Your all white people are racist shickt got old last year, no need to go on with this. Globetrotters doesn't represent "black basketball", it represents basketball for entertainment, not winning basketball (although the globetrotters do have a good record  ).


Damned Globetrotters!!!

Once I bet 50$ against them but they won... :curse:


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## Perseas

I read the whole thread really carefully and I think that the term 'Harlem Globetrotters' was used in "basketball for entartainment" terms, and not as a racist remark. This was totally misuderstood. Anyway, the thing is, and this is my opinion, that the best TEAM on the day won... and I also truly believe that it is more a Greek win than a USA loss... Before the game, everybody expected Greece to aim for a low-scoring, tight game (me included). But what do they do? They beat the US in their own game in my opinion, they simply outscored them. When was the last time ANY USA team has had 101 points scored against them??? I think you might have to look way back... I admire the Greek team's versatility and ability to adapt its style of play according to the opponent. This team is a "chameleon", and I hope they show it against Spain...


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## Wade2Bosh

Perseas said:


> When was the last time ANY USA team has had 101 points scored against them???...


Puerto Rico scored 100 in the opening game of the tournament.


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## Perseas

Good point... did they outscore the US though? oh, and when was it before that?


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## King Sancho Fantastic

gdonchow said:


> Um, I seriously hope I am just missing the sarcasm in the bolded text above because if there was anyone whose game is the perfect example of the selfish, me-first attitude (which is in part, a reason for the recent demise of the US team), it's _Mr. Kobe Bryant_.


Wrong. Maybe you didnt see the Suns series.... Kobe can play in a team concept *when he has the players around him. * And i wouldnt call finishing third a demise.. seeing as they have only been playing together for *3 WEEKS*

The US lost because they couldnt hit a three point shot to save their life and because they kept going at the Greeks through isos. IMO the US didnt have the go to guy that could bail them out of the tough situation they were put in because they had Lebron, Wade and Melo all trying to be the man. With Kobe there they wont have that problem. He can score and he can draw the defense to him to create for his teamates. He has the veteran savvy to to know when to take the game over and he commands the respect of the other three. Its that simple.


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## jaja

sloth said:


> Rodney, just shut it. Your all white people are racist shickt got old last year, no need to go on with this. Globetrotters doesn't represent "black basketball", it represents basketball for entertainment, not winning basketball (although the globetrotters do have a good record  ).


it may be old but its very true. white people didnt stop being racist in the last century. seems they work in perfecting it every generation


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## knicksfan

*Re: Greece beats USA 101 - 95*



Gilgamesh said:


> Exactly.
> 
> USA will never dominate like it once did and most people already realize that.
> 
> The team they put out this year is clearly the most talented team in the tournament but that doesn't mean it is the best team. The best teams have chemistry. This team is still building chemistry. The same goes for in the NBA. Look at the Knicks. A hell of a lot of talent and a HOF coach but they sit at the bottom of the standings. There is a reason why the Spurs are always among the best teams every year despite not being the most talented team in the NBA.
> 
> Greece is a good team. When USA loses against a nobody then I would really worry.
> 
> USA not winning gold is not the end of the world for USA basketball. I find it funny when people say the same thing about Canadian hockey.
> 
> I also don't think coaching is the primary problem even though Coach K might have made errors in judgement in this game. USA had three HOF caliber coaches and couldn't catch gold. Blaming the coach is a frequent but old excuse. Give the world credit. Greece simply outplayed USA period.


With all due respect, LOL @ Greece is good. Sofokolis is an overweight bum. Didn't the Greeks lose every game except one when they were hosting the Summer Olympics?


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## bball2223

*Re: Greece beats USA 101 - 95*



knicksfan said:


> With all due respect, LOL @ Greece is good. Sofokolis is an overweight bum. Didn't the Greeks lose every game except one when they were hosting the Summer Olympics?


LOL @ your post. Greece is very good and thats why they beat the USA.


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## neural_dream

*Re: Greece beats USA 101 - 95*



knicksfan said:


> Didn't the Greeks lose every game except one when they were hosting the Summer Olympics?


Urm, they were 5-2 and finished 5th.


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## IbizaXL

2008 USA should be good. its not like Greece dominated USA so theres nothing to worry about. the lack of chemistry and missed FT killed team USA.

in the finals i would go for Spain, they def. seemed like the better team, but with Gasol out, im not so sure anymore. its still going to be a good game though


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## 77AJ

CJPhillips said:


> Having covered the NBA and Canadian hoops in print and television for nearly 30 years - check my website at www.frozenhoops.com - I have stated as far back as perhaps 10 to 15 years ago that if you took a European national team and placed them in the NBA they would end up as NBA champions? How would Dallas or the Heat do against the national teams from Argentina, Spain, Italy, Brazil, France etc cetera and yes Greece?
> The NBA is ShowTime Baby with highlight reels and marketing while the sport of basketball is real and played on the hardwood five on five.
> It took a while for the Euros and the rest of the world to finally realize that the NBA was just Hollywood and nothin’ in Hollywood is real?
> Bring out Shaq, Kobe, Duncan, McGrady, Iverson, King James, Brand, Wallace, Wade, Garnett, Marion and whom ever else and the result would and may be the same.
> In a 1980 edition of Basketball Weekly I wrote that the NBA should think about changing the NBA All-Star Game to the USA vs. the World. Maybe its time to do just that and change the 2007 NBA All Star match as USA vs. the World. Just imagine the world team?
> Nash, Nowitzki, Yao, Kirilenko, Manu, Gasol, Parker, Nocioni, Stojakovic and the list goes on and on.
> I’d put my last Wilt Chamberlain rookie card on the line that the World team would win.
> Now bring back Chamberlain from the grave and rejuvenate Michael Jordan and then the ball will spin a different way.


Jordan and Wilt on the same team with 3 nobodys could win the gold.


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## hotsportslinks

they had defensive problem, which I saw coming

Bruce Bowen could of came in handy as he could of shot the 3 and played D, USA had problem in both of these field.

the man choosen over him. Shane Battier had 1 point


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## IbizaXL

hotsportslinks said:


> they had defensive problem, which I saw coming
> 
> Bruce Bowen could of came in handy as he could of shot the 3 and played D, USA had problem in both of these field.
> 
> the man choosen over him. Shane Battier had 1 point


Battier is actually considered an upgrade from Bowen. but what i really wanted to se was both of them out there playing.

USAs defense was good in the 1st qt, but it went downhill from there


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## tdizzle

Fantastic article by the AP's Tim Dahlberg detailing the U.S.' recent struggles on the international circuit.



> It's painfully evident we don't own basketball anymore. Even more painful, we never will.
> 
> You didn't have to watch the game against Greece to figure that out. The pregame warmups told the tale.
> 
> On one side of the court, NBA superstars were acting like the Harlem Globetrotters, banking balls off the backboard for slams and throwing down tomahawk dunks to fire up the crowd at Saitama Super Arena in Japan.
> 
> On the other side, a bunch of Greeks with long names were calmly practicing free throws.
> 
> Flamboyance sells lots of shoes and replica jerseys. It gets you on the highlight clips on ESPN.
> 
> Unfortunately, it's the fundamentals that win games in international basketball.


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## Babir

USA Teams always had dominant centers when they were winning gold easily...Ewing, Robinson, Olajowon, Shaq...and now there is no pure center and no gold medals...


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## gdonchow

CubanLaker said:


> Wrong. Maybe you didnt see the Suns series.... Kobe can play in a team concept *when he has the players around him. * And i wouldnt call finishing third a demise.. seeing as they have only been playing together for *3 WEEKS*
> 
> The US lost because they couldnt hit a three point shot to save their life and because they kept going at the Greeks through isos. IMO the US didnt have the go to guy that could bail them out of the tough situation they were put in because they had Lebron, Wade and Melo all trying to be the man. With Kobe there they wont have that problem. He can score and he can draw the defense to him to create for his teamates. He has the veteran savvy to to know when to take the game over and he commands the respect of the other three. Its that simple.


The Laker roster more or less did not change from the start of the season to the Suns series. So it's really not a matter of who was around Kobe since his teammates have proven although they're not superstars, they're very much capable of contributing. That being sad, it was a real shame Kobe wouldn't trust his teammates until the playoffs. At times when he was criticized for hogging the ball, he'd shut himself down in games and refuse to shoot as if to say "Y'all need me!! Without ME, you're nothing! snif snif, nothing i say...." What a damn baby. Here, lemme pad your much deserved ego as I try to get a point through your immensely thick skull: Yes, they need you. You're a great player. Top 3 even. But if you'd shared the rock a little more throughout the regular season, perhaps your team would have benefited and made it through the first round. 

rofl... "kobe's game tailor made for team basketball"... lmao still can't get past such insanity.


----------



## Bartholomew Hunt

gdonchow said:


> The Laker roster more or less did not change from the start of the season to the Suns series. So it's really not a matter of who was around Kobe since his teammates have proven although they're not superstars, they're very much capable of contributing. That being sad, it was a real shame Kobe wouldn't trust his teammates until the playoffs. At times when he was criticized for hogging the ball, he'd shut himself down in games and refuse to shoot as if to say "Y'all need me!! Without ME, you're nothing! snif snif, nothing i say...." What a damn baby. Here, lemme pad your much deserved ego as I try to get a point through your immensely thick skull: Yes, they need you. You're a great player. Top 3 even. But if you'd shared the rock a little more throughout the regular season, perhaps your team would have benefited and made it through the first round.
> 
> rofl... "kobe's game tailor made for team basketball"... lmao still can't get past such insanity.


 Ignorant. Those of us who watched Lakers games know the real deal. If Kobe plays like KG the entire season, we don't make the playoffs plain and simple. Sharing the ball to the degree that Kobe did in the Suns series was completely necessary, because of how young and inexperienced the Lakers were. If Smush Parker doesn't get a certain amount of shots, he doesn't play defense. Same with every other young player. In order to slow the tempo, we had to work the ball around, even though the youngsters still had an urge to fire up jumpers and play at the Suns pace.

Despite making two huge plays, Smush had an awful shooting performace. Kwame started 3-13 in game 7. Do you realize how awful that is for a player that plays exclusively in the paint offensively? Luke Walton went 8-21 one game. That's not that bad, but I'd rather have my best scorer taking 21 shots, not Luke Walton. Lamar Odom had an obvious height advantage over Shawn Marion and exploited it well. Do you know how many times during the season that we were begging him to take advantage of mismatches given to him? If you look at his stats, he finally started to do that, AFTER THE ALLSTAR break. Sasha decided to make shots in the Suns series. Now take a look at his regular season percentage. The truth is that for a few games, the supporting cast played out of their minds, then slowly came back down to reality.

The Lakers will be improved this season, thus Kobe will be more inclined to work the ball around. If he's taking close to thirty shots per game after the All-Star break, then I would be miffed. And this is completely off-topic, soooooo....


----------



## gdonchow

Bartholomew Hunt said:


> If he's taking close to thirty shots per game after the All-Star break, then I would be miffed. And this is completely off-topic, soooooo....


Prepare to be miffed then, good sir. And yes it is off topic, but seeing Kobe Bryant being described as TAILOR MADE FOR TEAM BASKETBALL was just too distracting to avoid.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

gdonchow said:


> Prepare to be miffed then, good sir. And yes it is off topic, but seeing Kobe Bryant being described as TAILOR MADE FOR TEAM BASKETBALL was just too distracting to avoid.


Hes tailor made to the point of three championships. That cannot be argued. 

Like ive said before. If Kobe is given the right amount of talent around him he EASILY becomes the team player everyone wants him to be. Its just a matter of surrounding him with the proper players. When his teammates stepped up after the Allstar break the Lakers looked excellent.
And talent is not lacking on Team USA.


----------



## gdonchow

Make no mistake, Shaq won those championships for the Lakers. Kobe helped to some degree, but no shaq no ring. No Kobe, no problem.


----------



## bball2223

CubanLaker said:


> Hes tailor made to the point of three championships. That cannot be argued.
> 
> Like ive said before. If Kobe is given the right amount of talent around him he EASILY becomes the team player everyone wants him to be. Its just a matter of surrounding him with the proper players. When his teammates stepped up after the Allstar break the Lakers looked excellent.
> And talent is not lacking on Team USA.



Okay if Kobe passed the ball in the 2004 finals against the Pistons, then the Lakers would have won the 2004 title and probably would still have both Kobe and Shaq. Boy, what a great team player.


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## Matej

CubanLaker said:


> Hes tailor made to the point of three championships. That cannot be argued.


He was an assistant tailor


----------

