# man, we're going to stink



## fuzion (Oct 13, 2005)

I'm a new poster but damn this season is basically going to be crap. we're having such a hard time in scoring. chandler still has no offense going. hinrich turning over the ball left and right. Nice job Paxson, got rid of Eddy Curry who's probably our best offensive player. I hope we get a lottery pick this year.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Remember, it's only preseason. We'll win some games, we'll lose some. the important thing to remember is that the games don't matter.

We're without Duhon, Piatkowski, Songaila, and Noce. That's 4 important parts not playing for us. So it's probably not a good time to judge. All this is showing is that the end of our bench won't be as good as it was last year, and that we don't have any consistent low post threat.


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## SoCalfan21 (Jul 19, 2004)

fuzion said:


> I'm a new poster but damn this season is basically going to be crap. we're having such a hard time in scoring. chandler still has no offense going. hinrich turning over the ball left and right. Nice job Paxson, got rid of Eddy Curry who's probably our best offensive player. I hope we get a lottery pick this year.


when the lakers had malone payton shaq and kobe they went 0-6 or something like that in the preseason. dont worry dude, i watch alot of bulls games and they dont look all that bad. They will do fine. Also sweetney is looking pretty damn good


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## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

Welcome aboard but dude you really overreacting. I mean at least wait until the season starts and we have our entire rotation set instead of playing guys like Jackson,Holcomb, and Powell. I mean we everyone is here, healthy, and ready to play we have a nice deep versatile roster. Having said that we will look differently out there. But that is not necessarily a bad thing. Duhon, Songalia, and Nocioni will all have very valuable roles and they are not out there. Plus Davis will be back and his presence on and off the court is invaluable. I do agree that a Sweetney/Chandler starting frontline will not work. Stick Songalia with Chandler(will be a nice fit) and Sweetney off bench with Davis(remember how good Curry always looked with Davis beside him) and Harrington as 5th big. I promise we will be okay. Worst case scenario for season. 42-40 and 8th seed in the East with an enormous amount of capspace coming to us next summer. Things could be a LOT worse.


Hinrich,Duhon,Pargo
Gordon,Thomas,Basden(IA)
Deng,Nocioni,Piatkowski(IA)
Songalia,Sweetney,Harrington
Chandler,Davis,Allen

I personally really like that lineup.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

look at our bench. Three guys are playing that wont make the team.


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## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

Hopefully just preseason blues. We got a bunch of guys out - Duhon, TT, Songalia, Nocioni and Pike. But this game I'm watching right now is by far the worst I've seen the Bulls play post-9 game losing streak. It doesn't even seem like we've had any practice w/ the amount of time we're taking just to get into our offense. From an execution stand point Grizzlies look galaxies ahead of us. Some blame has to go to Skiles.

Ben VERY dissappointing these first two games. He's still slipping all over the court.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

Its the preseason. Nothing can be derived from it. Be patient.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

We are missing atleast one starter (songaila) and 3 others in our top 8 (Duhon, TT, Nocioni)


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

rlucas4257 said:


> Its the preseason. Nothing can be derived from it. Be patient.


Of course I mostly agree, but after two games you can start to see some things too.

Doesn't mean we're gonna suck, but there are at least trends. I haven't seen anything to even start dispelling some of the notions I've had going in:

* Without Eddy, we' need to pick up scoring from somewhere else and without Eddy on the court our other guys won't get as many looks.

* Sweets can fill it up, but he probably shouldn't be a starter.

* Tyson is the same player he's always been

* Chris Duhon is our best distributor

* We're gonna live and die with our guard play

OK, here's one thing I'm starting to be be a bit concerned about. What little stock I put in the pre-season confirms my belief that Gordon needs to start to give us a legit scoring threat early. However I'm starting to think a lot of our success last year was due to Duhon's ability to run the team. Is it possible Kirk's going to take a seat? I dunno. We need to score, but we also need Kirk's defense.


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## SDBullsFan (Oct 4, 2005)

fuzion said:


> I'm a new poster but damn this season is basically going to be crap. we're having such a hard time in scoring. chandler still has no offense going. hinrich turning over the ball left and right. Nice job Paxson, got rid of Eddy Curry who's probably our best offensive player. I hope we get a lottery pick this year.


You should probably give watching basketball a shot.


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

Mikedc said:


> OK, here's one thing I'm starting to be be a bit concerned about. What little stock I put in the pre-season confirms my belief that Gordon needs to start to give us a legit scoring threat early. However I'm starting to think a lot of our success last year was due to Duhon's ability to run the team. Is it possible Kirk's going to take a seat? I dunno. We need to score, but we also need Kirk's defense.


Ben Gordon is a strong 3 to 2 favorite to become the next pariah for the "right way" gang. 

That's all I got to say.


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## Sham (Dec 2, 2002)

Just to clear up who was missing today:

Thomas
Songaila
Duhon
Nocioni
Pargo
Piatkowski


6 of our usual 12 there. That counts for a lot. We're not ever giving 60 combined minutes to Powell, Jackson and Holcomb.


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

ShamBulls said:


> Just to clear up who was missing today:
> 
> Thomas
> Songaila
> ...


yeah, i didn't even realize that...


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## darlets (Jul 31, 2002)

Pre season just a feeling out period. Skiles is just trying stuff I would think. Also we started 0-9 last year. So it's not impossible to turn form around.

I can't be stuff looking it up, but we had a decent record when curry went out last year. It hurt us offensively but we still won games.

I would hazard a guess hinrich has been told in preseason not to look for his own shot and any of our post players have a licence to shoot. Just so skiles can see where we're at.

Our team is also base on defense and Duhon and nocino (and maybe davis) aren't in there.


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## Deng101 (Jan 13, 2005)

Ill give you a little hint what pre-season means.. different sports but when they were still the expos they had the best pre-season record and ended up being dead dead last... or the Patriots have been a pretty bad pre-season team while on their superbowl runs.... and someone said already the lakers with their stars were 0-6.

Also to the person saying we were missing 4 important players... Piatkowski is only good cheering on the bench with his kung fu fist.


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## Aesop (Jun 1, 2003)

The Spurs are 0-2 too.


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## TRUTHHURTS (Mar 1, 2003)

ShamBulls said:


> Just to clear up who was missing today:
> 
> Thomas
> Songaila
> ...


But do those guys bring what were missing ? The sky isnt fallling and its only preseason but defense and effort has not been lacking .Its the ability to put the ball in the hole and be a solid consistent threat on offense thats missing.

I see teams will eventually ALLOW guys like Tyson to get the rock because they can do anything with it and it takes the ball out of the hands of the few players that can.

No one one on that list is known for their offensive consistency.Its still early but there are some things to be concerned about.


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## theyoungsrm (May 23, 2003)

miami got better
detroit is still good
indiana got better
new jersey probably will be better
cleveland got better
atlanta got better
philly will probably be better 
milwakee got better
new york got better

washington probably will be worse
boston probably will be worse

not a good look to get weaker this year


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## Simpleton (Feb 18, 2005)

TRUTHHURTS said:


> But do those guys bring what were missing ? The sky isnt fallling and its only preseason but defense and effort has not been lacking .Its the ability to put the ball in the hole and be a solid consistent threat on offense thats missing.
> 
> I see teams will eventually ALLOW guys like Tyson to get the rock because they can do anything with it and it takes the ball out of the hands of the few players that can.
> 
> No one one on that list is known for their offensive consistency.Its still early but there are some things to be concerned about.


Songaila would be a nice offensive complement to Chandler. He can pass and shoot from the high post or wings while letting Chandler occupy the post. Sweetney obviously can't do that and shouldn't play heavy minutes alongside Chandler. 

Duhon, Nocioni and especially Thomas would all be significant offensive upgrades over guys like freaking Kasib Powell, Ryan Holcombe and whatever other scrubs we were throwing out there as our 2nd team against the Grizzlies.

We won't be a prolific offensive team but we'll be alot better than what tonight's game would lead you to believe. Plus, it was only preseason. Our offense should be good enough to come out with at least 42 wins with our defense.


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## windy_bull (Sep 28, 2005)

I don't know how many of you guys have ever been doing professional or semi-professional sports .... one thing is for sure ... the harder your workouts are ... the worse your performance in test_games becomes ... 

training camp will not pay dividends during training camp but during the season .....

so knowing that general scotts workouts are amongst the toughest .... I just won't worry about our regular season because of pre season games .....


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## giusd (Apr 17, 2003)

We should all keep in mind that skiles runs one of the hardest pre season camps in the entire NBA. These are not games but just practices and the team is beat. One of the ways we won soo many games last year was wearing the other team down with our defense and hustle. In the preseason that just does not happen. But i will say this. If you look at the schedule we again have a very very tough first 4 or 5 weeks of the season. Long road trip and almost every game against a playoff team. If we are near 500 at Xmasss i think that would be great.

david


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## fl_flash (Aug 19, 2002)

I'm not gonna stress too much over this preseason. I did not see the game last night, but we were down Thomas, Duhon, Noce, Songaila, Pargo (any word why he didn't play?) and Pike. That's six players that all figure to get decent minutes (some more than others). Anybody who thinks those six wouldn't make a difference over the likes of Basden, Powell, Jackson, Allen and Holcumb, well, I just don't know how to respond to that.

When the games count and we're getting our asses handed to us, then I'll stress it. Right now, I think they're really just feeling themselves out and taking a hard look at these borderline players to see what they've got. If winning was the most important thing, I'm pretty sure guys like Duhon, Noce and Songaila would have played. No sense in risking really injuring those guys for games that don't count.


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## NYKBaller (Oct 29, 2003)

http://www.nbadraft.net/profiles/andreabargnani.asp

Another dirk clone, would be a nice fit for Chi town if it happens...


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Michael Jordan would kick his gradma's behind in a game of one-on-one in the driveway. He had that much drive to win - all the time, and even if the games meant nothing.

San Antonio is favored to repeat as champs. The Bulls aren't at that level yet, so I don't see that the comparison is fair. 

The Lakers? During the pre-season, they were favored to win it all, practically a lock. So yeah, they lost in pre-season, and look how their season turned out.

The preseason isn't over, so I hope we turn things around enough to win some games toward the end and start the regular season with the confidence that winning breeds.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

ScottMay said:


> Ben Gordon is a strong 3 to 2 favorite to become the next pariah for the "right way" gang.
> 
> That's all I got to say.


Im so sick of hearing about the "right way". Its like the bible belt republicans in the south. Talking about doing things the right way but then being closed minded about the other ways of doing things.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

Preseason means zilch. Especially when we are missing our 3 top bench players and a starter (Songaila). Sure, somethings are going to need to be corrected but its way to early to write the season off. We will probably not be as good as last year and I dont like the direction the team is really going, but 500 is a good possibility and a playoff seed is in the cards.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

windy_bull said:


> I don't know how many of you guys have ever been doing professional or semi-professional sports .... one thing is for sure ... the harder your workouts are ... the worse your performance in test_games becomes ...
> 
> training camp will not pay dividends during training camp but during the season .....
> 
> so knowing that general scotts workouts are amongst the toughest .... I just won't worry about our regular season because of pre season games .....



really?


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

rlucas4257 said:


> Preseason means zilch. Especially when we are missing our 3 top bench players and a starter (Songaila). Sure, somethings are going to need to be corrected but its way to early to write the season off. We will probably not be as good as last year and I dont like the direction the team is really going, but 500 is a good possibility and a playoff seed is in the cards.


I'm not suggesting it's time to write off the season. I just don't like the attitude that it's OK to lose under any circumstance. Of course we're going to lose, and we have to accept that. 

I'd attribute our losing these pre-season games to how the offseason was handled. There's a lot of new faces and roles to figure out.


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## Frankensteiner (Dec 29, 2004)

Ben Gordon needs to show us that supposed improvement he had over the summer. We're not going anywhere if he plays like he did the last month and a half of last season.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Frankensteiner said:


> Ben Gordon needs to show us that supposed improvement he had over the summer. We're not going anywhere if he plays like he did the last month and a half of last season.


And, ScottMay, it begins.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

NYKBaller said:


> http://www.nbadraft.net/profiles/andreabargnani.asp
> 
> Another dirk clone, would be a nice fit for Chi town if it happens...


He is a real interesting prospect or so I have been told. I am still impartial to a healthy and motivated Nemanja Aleksandrov but it remains to be seen if he will refind his form.


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## windy_bull (Sep 28, 2005)

rlucas4257 said:


> really?


what do you mean ? whether I don't worry about the regular season or whether hard workouts translate into success during test games ?

from my own experience I know for sure that hard physical workouts have a negative effect on your performance .... after a day of sprints for example I am slower the next day than I have been before .. the positive impact of those drills becomes visible, measureable and feelable about 4 weeks later ...

if your question is asking whether I am really not scared concerning our success in the regular season I have to say that I am a little scared concerning the performance of tyson chandler ... I am still not convinced whether he will be able to play at the same level for 20 games in a row ... 

as I said before : if tyson fails to perform on a regular base we are in trouble .... if he manages to have averages of 10points /12 rebounds .....we will be fine !


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

I know one thing, Skiles if giving the scrubs a hard look. All three played a lot of minutes in the first two games.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

windy_bull said:


> what do you mean ? whether I don't worry about the regular season or whether hard workouts translate into success during test games ?
> 
> from my own experience I know for sure that hard physical workouts have a negative effect on your performance .... after a day of sprints for example I am slower the next day than I have been before .. the positive impact of those drills becomes visible, measureable and feelable about 4 weeks later ...
> 
> ...



A question regarding whether hard workouts translate to bad preseason performances. That also has to assume ofcourse that our opponents are not working hard as well, which I think is short sighted. We might work harder then average but probably not the hardest. Having said that, 0-2 in preseason doesnt mean much to me considering who isnt playing and that its preseason.


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## bullsville (Jan 23, 2005)

I may still be a little sleepy, so maybe I read this wrong, but are there actually people who have a problem with a team that does things "the right way"?

Michael Jordan is rolling over in his grave...


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

windy_bull said:


> what do you mean ? whether I don't worry about the regular season or whether hard workouts translate into success during test games ?
> 
> from my own experience I know for sure that hard physical workouts have a negative effect on your performance .... after a day of sprints for example I am slower the next day than I have been before .. the positive impact of those drills becomes visible, measureable and feelable about 4 weeks later ...
> 
> ...


That's odd, because there's an axiom in sports that goes like this: "How you practice is how you play."


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

bullsville said:


> I may still be a little sleepy, so maybe I read this wrong, but are there actually people who have a problem with a team that does things "the right way"?
> 
> Michael Jordan is rolling over in his grave...



Michael Jordan is not dead. Get your facts straight


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## windy_bull (Sep 28, 2005)

rlucas4257 said:


> ..... Having said that, 0-2 in preseason doesnt mean much to me considering who isnt playing and that its preseason.


+ new players + lots of playing time for powell etc. ....

no reason to worry .........






........ yet ;-)


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

windy_bull said:


> + new players + lots of playing time for powell etc. ....
> 
> no reason to worry .........
> 
> ...


After last years preseason and start to the season itll be mid Feb before I write them off.


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## windy_bull (Sep 28, 2005)

rlucas4257 said:


> After last years preseason and start to the season itll be mid Feb before I write them off.


same with me .... 

but I have to admit that I am not 100% sure how much of my positive attitude is nothing but hope .....

:cheers: :angel:


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

windy_bull said:


> + new players + lots of playing time for powell etc. ....
> 
> no reason to worry .........
> 
> ...



I don't see any reason for a yet, if you believe in "the right way" and Paxson.

We were the "#3 team in the East" last year.

The only player we lost was Curry, who many here seemingly don't consider to be much of an asset, if one at all.

All our young players had another year to develop. We brought in Sweetney, Songolia, Thomas and another potential Paxson stroke of genius in Basden.

Certainly there is nothing to worry about. We're going to be great! We're the #3 team in the East dammit!


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

windy_bull said:


> same with me ....
> 
> but I have to admit that I am not 100% sure how much of my positive attitude is nothing but hope .....
> 
> :cheers: :angel:


I am sure its more then hope. Its a team that won 47 games last year, has good guard play and a history of starting slow. Its obvious that the Bulls, at worst, are a good team. However, whats scary is that some of the moves management made were questionable, at best, and that the east has gotten better. But having said that, its just impossible to know how much organic growth (Deng, Gordon, Noc, Duhon) have had without seeing them play a half season. Deng, in particular, looks ready.


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## windy_bull (Sep 28, 2005)

kukoc4ever said:


> I don't see any reason for a yet, if you believe in "the right way" and Paxson.
> 
> We were the "#3 team in the East" last year.
> 
> ...


if you read my few posts you will see that I am nothing but positive ... :banana: :banana: 

but please leave me after all those painful years the freedom to use the terms " yet" and "hope" ..
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.... but on the other hand : Yeah .... U R right !!!!!! We're the #3 team in the East dammit! :clap: :clap: .


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## BULLS23 (Apr 13, 2003)

I really think it's too early to tell how the season will turn out based on a couple of warm up games. With Mr. GrittyGutty giving so much time to guys who probably won't be here when the regular season comes around, I think we will be fine. I do think that record-wise we might not be as good but it won't be a huge difference. Once we get the new guys acclimated and such things will be fine with this team. We've got a good coach and some guys who can play (c'mon now; you all know we haven't had that in some previous years.)


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## Frankensteiner (Dec 29, 2004)

DaBullz said:


> And, ScottMay, it begins.


I don't know what to tell you. He's the guy that has to pick up more of the scoring load in Eddy's absence, so therefore he has to avoid fouls, play good defense, and stay on the court. We know what the other guys (Kirk, Tyson, Duhon, etc.) will bring to the table, but Ben's been touted as the only potential superstar on the team. He has to play up to his potential if we're thinking about having a playoff season.


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## windy_bull (Sep 28, 2005)

DaBullz said:


> That's odd, because there's an axiom in sports that goes like this: "How you practice is how you play."


yes ... thats fine and very true ... but if I may be free to read MY truth into this I have to reply that in this axiom there is no reference "when" this game takes place ... ;-)

as every axiom it might be a little too general .... 

but anyway it is great for me to exchange my thoughts with guys like you or rlucas ... i have been reading your posts plenty of times during the last couple of years ... and it was always an important input for me because - as I wrote in a different thread - : it is very hard to cover the bulls if you live in germany .... so this board has always been my FIRST source to collect information ....


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

windy_bull said:


> yes ... thats fine and very true ... but if I may be free to read MY truth into this I have to reply that in this axiom there is no reference "when" this game takes place ... ;-)
> 
> as every axiom it might be a little too general ....
> 
> but anyway it is great for me to exchange my thoughts with guys like you or rlucas ... i have been reading your posts plenty of times during the last couple of years ... and it was always an important input for me because - as I wrote in a different thread - : it is very hard to cover the bulls if you live in germany .... so this board has always been my FIRST source to collect information ....


Windy Bull, on a far more important topic, can me and my friends and family crash at your home next summer for 2006 World Cup since I cant find a hotel in Berlin?


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Frankensteiner said:


> I don't know what to tell you. He's the guy that has to pick up more of the scoring load in Eddy's absence, so therefore he has to avoid fouls, play good defense, and stay on the court. We know what the other guys (Kirk, Tyson, Duhon, etc.) will bring to the table, but Ben's been touted as the only potential superstar on the team. He has to play up to his potential if we're thinking about having a playoff season.


I don't know that we _should_ expect better from the guy than what he did last season. He won about 20 games for us with his clutch 4th quarter play. That's a huge burden to put on a rookie or 2nd year player who isn't Michael Jordan. 

My expectations for the guy is he does 90% as good (maybe worse), which is still awesome.


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## windy_bull (Sep 28, 2005)

rlucas4257 said:


> Windy Bull, on a far more important topic, can me and my friends and family crash at your home next summer for 2006 World Cup since I cant find a hotel in Berlin?



:biggrin: 

yes of course ... if you don't mind that I live approximately 600 km away from berlin ... I guess thats about 400 miles .....


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

windy_bull said:


> :biggrin:
> 
> yes of course ... if you don't mind that I live approximately 600 km away from berlin ... I guess thats about 400 miles .....



Thats about as close as you can get to Berlin that weekend. Dont stay up for us, we will be late!


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## windy_bull (Sep 28, 2005)

rlucas4257 said:


> Thats about as close as you can get to Berlin that weekend. Dont stay up for us, we will be late!


just knock at my door ... how many people will come ... I need to know this in order to have enough beer for all of you ... :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

windy_bull said:


> just knock at my door ... how many people will come ... I need to know this in order to have enough beer for all of you ... :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:


My father, wife, friend and his fiance. So 5 of us. Beer and Weiner Schnitzel.


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## windy_bull (Sep 28, 2005)

rlucas4257 said:


> My father, wife, friend and his fiance. So 5 of us. Beer and Weiner Schnitzel.


fine ... just drop me note about 2 weeks before your arrival .... 

and btw when I was in chicago in june I saw that they are selling " Weiner Schnitzel " there but it is called "Wiener Schnitzel" in germany ....


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

windy_bull said:


> fine ... just drop me note about 2 weeks before your arrival ....
> 
> and btw when I was in chicago in june I saw that they are selling " Weiner Schnitzel " there but it is called "Wiener Schnitzel" in germany ....


Germany will put on a very good show next year. Its going to be very exciting. I dont know how well their squad will do but it would be nice if they can stick around for awhile. Final 8 sounds about right. This is clearly Brazils tournament to lose but only once as a South American team won on European soil, back in 56.


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## windy_bull (Sep 28, 2005)

rlucas4257 said:


> Germany will put on a very good show next year. Its going to be very exciting. I dont know how well their squad will do but it would be nice if they can stick around for awhile. Final 8 sounds about right. This is clearly Brazils tournament to lose but only once as a South American team won on European soil, back in 56.


well concerning the german squad all I can say is that there is not too much talent ... there are too many holes in their game ... but then again: they have been in the finals with even worse players ...

in the end it all balls down to the fact:

" if they are playing the "RIGHT WAY" :biggrin: - everything is possible .... !!!


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## Frankensteiner (Dec 29, 2004)

DaBullz said:


> I don't know that we _should_ expect better from the guy than what he did last season.


18-20 ppg/32 min pg/less turnovers/less fouls/better defense. I know, crazy expectations.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Frankensteiner said:


> 18-20 ppg/32 min pg/less turnovers/less fouls/better defense. I know, crazy expectations.


Sounds like Crawford.

The BIG thing that Ben did was consistently hit the clutch shot/game winner. 

I just can't assume based on just one season that anyone, Ben included, is going to be clutch like that forever.

Clutch in the Reggie Miller sense.


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## Deke (Jul 27, 2005)

watch some football and u'll see how important preseason is. colts 0-4 in preseason and one of the worst defenses of preseason, and look at them now. still undefeated and the #1 defense in the NFL. this is why i hate preseason in all sports.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

BenGordon said:


> watch some football and u'll see how important preseason is. colts 0-4 in preseason and one of the worst defenses of preseason, and look at them now. still undefeated and the #1 defense in the NFL. this is why i hate preseason in all sports.



Ben, you from Baltimore as well? Thats my birthplace and brought up in Chicago after I was 9


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## Vintage (Nov 8, 2002)

Good.

I was wondering what it felt like to be in the lottery again.

Guess we'll get some more practice with it.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

<--- born in baltimore



rlucas4257 said:


> Ben, you from Baltimore as well? Thats my birthplace and brought up in Chicago after I was 9


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