# What's the Best National League?



## JGKoblenz (Jul 19, 2002)

Hey everyone,

I can't follow any European National League here in Brazil so I'm just wondering what country has the best National League?

Who has the best talents? Who has the best teams?


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## bender (Jul 15, 2002)

All leagues from South Europe are pretty good: Spain, Italy, Greece, Israel.
All other leagues are on lower level.


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## JGKoblenz (Jul 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>bender</b>!
> All leagues from South Europe are pretty good: Spain, Italy, Greece, Israel.
> All other leagues are on lower level.


Israel? I didn't hear much about this league.


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## bender (Jul 15, 2002)

I just considered Israel because the MVP of the German BBL transfered there and is now a role player.


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## JGKoblenz (Jul 19, 2002)

Who was the MVP of the German BBL?


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## suspect (Sep 10, 2002)

Marcus Goree ???


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## bender (Jul 15, 2002)

Exactly. 
Marcus Goree averaged 19.5ppg, 9.3rpg, 1.6apg, 1.3bpg, 1.0spg for the Opel Skyliners and was named MVP of the '01-'02 Season.
Now he's playing for Maccabi Tel Aviv and averages 14.7ppg, 5.6rpg, 0.7apg, 0.3bpg, 0.9 bpg.


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## MasterOfPuppets (Nov 10, 2002)

Goree went to Israel ? I haven't known that. thanks for the info, bender !!!  
To which team did he go ?


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## bender (Jul 15, 2002)

Maccabi Tel Aviv


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## MasterOfPuppets (Nov 10, 2002)

Thanks again for the info man !!!


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## starbonis (Aug 7, 2002)

Top Leagues :

Spain
Italy

Then Greece, cos they look like they are in an economic nightmare.
Then France, we don't have the big money, but this league has plenty of talents and mostly it is a real league with 14 good clubs
Then Israel, only there because after mythic Maccabi, there's a big hole
Then Croatia, lots of talents in their young age
Then Russia, only there because behind CSKA and Perm, the other teams are not in the same division: imagine Duke/N.Carolina with NCAA ll teams around

Then Germany, Yougoslavia, Belgium and Turkey


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## bender (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>starbonis</b>!
> Then Israel, only there because after mythic Maccabi, there's a big hole


So it's in Germany, too. There is Alba Berlin, champion for the 5th or 6th time (in a row), unbeaten this season in the first 8 games. And there's a big hole.


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## alister (Oct 12, 2002)

To Starbonis: I agree France is a very good and probably the most balanced league.And this year Pau and Asvel have been strengthen up a lot and especially Asvel is considered now as one
of the best Euroleague teams.I disagree about Russia,last year the situation was like that but now Perm is not even the 2nd best team after CSK and there are many really good teams.For example Uniks Kazan(Chkalkin,Kudelin,Fetisov,Dainenko,D.Mrsic,
E.Zukaukas,Samoilenko),Dynamo Moscow(Muursep,Morgunov,
Domani,Bazarevic,Ffriend,D.Hamilton,Miloserdov) also Lokomotiv and Saratov are very good teams.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

OT. Any of you guys follow the foreign leagues closely? We coulc use some writers here to write a column about those leagues and the teams, coaches and players. If not, know of anyone we could ask?


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## bender (Jul 15, 2002)

Sport1's Top Five of BBL:

Carl Brown - 5'10 PG, TBB Trier (former U of Arkansas player)
DeJuan Collins - 6'1 SG, Alba Berlin (former U of Louisiana player)
Marko Pesic - 6'6 SG/SF, Alba Berlin
John Best - 6'8 SF/PF, Bayer Leverkusen Giants (former NBA player)
Aleksandar Nadjfeji - 6'8 PF, Telekom Baskets Bonn

It's remarkable that a) all players are undersized, and b) all players except of Pesic are foreigners.


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## MasterOfPuppets (Nov 10, 2002)

I would take Obradovic over Charlie Brown every time. And I think the new center of ALBA Berlin, Stanojevic has more impact on a game than Pesic, so my choice would be:

Obradovic - PG
Collins - SG
Best - SF
Nadjfeji - PF
Stanojevic - C


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## RiSInG (Dec 15, 2002)

The best leagues are Spain and Italy so far.

And the best team is FC Barcelona,with players like JC Navarro (wizards pick in the last draft), Dejan Bodiroga (the best player in the last world championship),Roberto Dueñas (2.20 center dominant in Europe), Gregov Fu*ka (a Pau Gasol's type PF),Sarunas Jasikevicius (in the USA still dreams with him...) and a lot more.


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## bender (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>RiSInG</b>!
> ... Dejan Bodiroga (the best player in the last world championship)...


I thought Nowitzki won the MVP trophy


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## RiSInG (Dec 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>bender</b>!
> 
> I thought Nowitzki won the MVP trophy


Yes he did,but who was the most decisive player in all the Yugoslavia's games? And who was the leader in the champions? I think that Bodiroga dominates the WC


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## spartanfan2003 (Jul 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>suspect</b>!
> Marcus Goree ???


He was on the Grizzlie's summer league team last season!


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## Zelena Hracka (Dec 16, 2002)

For the years between 1995 and 2000 the best european league was definately the greek. However now it seems that the Italian and Spanish Leagues (especially the Spanish) have taken over. The greeks will be back strong, but not before the Olympics.

As for the best talents? There is only one place you should look for talents (or I should say two places). Lithuania, and Serbia with Montenegro. They'll never stop producing talents.


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## RiSInG (Dec 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Zelena Hracka</b>!
> 
> 
> As for the best talents? There is only one place you should look for talents (or I should say two places). Lithuania, and Serbia with Montenegro. They'll never stop producing talents.


Ok,but there are a lot of young talents emerging in Spain in this years.Italy don't produce talents,and Greece,not at all...Spanish young men are becoming important in Europe too


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## bender (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>RiSInG</b>!
> Italy don't produce talents


Yeah, you're likely right.



> Originally posted by <b>RiSInG</b>!
> and Greece,not at all...


Hell no, did you forgot who won the AST this year? Or who was finalist at the European Junior Championship? I thought it was Greece. Didn't you see players like Schortsianitis, Vasiliadis and Perperoglou?


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## Zelena Hracka (Dec 16, 2002)

Greece not at all?

I think you are wrong in this. If you check the greek junior teams you will see that they always reach the medals in European competitions and sometimes even World ones. I think Greece produces right now more talents than Italy. Definately. 

As for Spain, yeah, of course they procduce lots of talented players but not in the same frequency as the Lithuanians or the Serbs do. So, that's why I refered only to the latter in my previous post.


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## RiSInG (Dec 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>bender</b>!
> 
> 
> Hell no, did you forgot who won the AST this year? Or who was finalist at the European Junior Championship? I thought it was Greece. Didn't you see players like Schortsianitis, Vasiliadis and Perperoglou?


I'm not talking about under-18 guys,I'm talking about 20 yeras old around players.Guys like Pau Gasol,Raul Lopez,Felipe Reyes...that's what I'm talking about


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## bender (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>RiSInG</b>!
> I'm not talking about under-18 guys,I'm talking about 20 yeras old around players.


Here we go: Andreas Glyniadakis, Vassilis Spanoulis, Christos Tapoutos, Nikos Zisis, ...


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## Zelena Hracka (Dec 16, 2002)

Glyniadakis? No way! The other three guys are really good. Especailly the two AEK guys (even though Tapoutos hasn't show what he's capable of yet).

Glyniadakis? Apart from his height he has no apparent relationship with basketball. Even now that he plays for B.C. Peristeri Athens, which means that he plays amongst other guys of his age, he hasn't been showing anything special. 

Can you tell me more about Spanoulis? I know he's really good. He was one of the sterting 5 of the greek team that won the gold in Lithuania, right? He's the guy that "killed" Panathinaikos last year in the regular season's game in Maroussi. Has anything been said about him moving to a bigger club yet? 

Cheers.


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## suspect (Sep 10, 2002)

To Zelena Hracka. About Spanoulis go to:
http://www.nbadraft.net/profiles/vassilisspanoulis.htm


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## Zelena Hracka (Dec 16, 2002)

To RiSInG:

Duenas is a dominant center in Europe? You must be joking. Come on, you have to confess that the only games in which he plays well are the ones against weak teams that lack good players in the Center position. Whenever he plays against strong teams or teams that have a good Center figure he suddenly dissapears. He's a big fellow and therefore he takes advantage of his size, whenever he can, to score and rebound against smaller guys. I wouldn't call him a good center. That's why the Bulls weren't so crazy to take him to the States. He certainly wouldn't make it against the big NBA centers. He's good and useful when Barca plays CSF or Alicante but not when the opposing team has a good and skilfull center. You can check, if you want, in which games his coaches use him and in which they don't. It depends who they play against and who's the center of the other team.


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## RiSInG (Dec 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>bender</b>!
> 
> 
> Here we go: Andreas Glyniadakis, Vassilis Spanoulis, Christos Tapoutos, Nikos Zisis, ...


This guys are comparable with Gasol,Lopez,Navarro,etc etc etc?


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## RiSInG (Dec 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Zelena Hracka</b>!
> To RiSInG:
> 
> Duenas is a dominant center in Europe? You must be joking. Come on, you have to confess that the only games in which he plays well are the ones against weak teams that lack good players in the Center position. Whenever he plays against strong teams or teams that have a good Center figure he suddenly dissapears. He's a big fellow and therefore he takes advantage of his size, whenever he can, to score and rebound against smaller guys. I wouldn't call him a good center. That's why the Bulls weren't so crazy to take him to the States. He certainly wouldn't make it against the big NBA centers. He's good and useful when Barca plays CSF or Alicante but not when the opposing team has a good and skilfull center. You can check, if you want, in which games his coaches use him and in which they don't. It depends who they play against and who's the center of the other team.


Dueñas has been drafted,Dueñas has won a MVP award in the ACB finals,the National Team coach in the las World Championship said that the spanish team wasn't as dangerous with Dueñas than without him...but ok,you are right,Dueñas is a bluff :dead: :devil:


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## suspect (Sep 10, 2002)

> This guys are comparable with Gasol,Lopez,Navarro,etc etc etc?


No they are not comparable they are better. Fotsis is a much bigger talent than Navarro and Lopez, and he is proving it this year...
Spanoulis is overall better than Lopez (Spanish Junior National Team has still nightmares from him in the Euro Under 20 Championship), Spanoulis has better ball distribution, is a way better defender, taller and has a better body structure. I don't get this Raul Lopez phenom, in order to survive in the NBA a player has to have a great bodystructure and play at least decent D........Lopez doesn't have any of these.....besides Lopez is seriously injured right now....I think you spanish fans are a bit to optimistic about him... I mean, in another forum some spanish fans were hyping him up calling him the best PG in the history of European bball.... that is bull****.

Diamantopoulos might have a really bad attitude but afterall he is one of the 2-3 best European scorers (31 ppg in Champions Cup, 28 ppg in the Greek League), he is better than Navarro IMO (besides unlike Navarro he is not an undersized 2). The only one that is better than the Greek players i mentioned is Gasol, the rest of the Spanish players are not better than ours..


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## WonderPelekanos (Dec 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>RiSInG</b>!
> 
> 
> I'm not talking about under-18 guys,I'm talking about 20 yeras old around players.Guys like Pau Gasol,Raul Lopez,Felipe Reyes...that's what I'm talking about


Yes, you're definitely kidding. 
These are some "about 20 years old" Greek players: 
-Dimitris Diamantidis, pg, Iraklis Thessaloniki (1980) 
-Nikos Zisis, pg-sg, AEK Athens (1983) 
-Giorgos Diamantopoulos, sg, Panionos Smyrni (1980) 
-Kostas Vasiliadis, sg, PAOK Thessaloniki (1984) 
-Hristos Tapoutos, sf, AEK Athens (1982) 
-Antonis Fotsis, pf, Panathinaikos (1981) 
-Lazaros Papadopoulos, c, Panathinaikos (1980) --> Maybe someone who has been decisive in a Euroleague final could have been mentioned... 
-Sofoklis Shortsianitis, c, Iraklis Thessaloniki (1985) --> and each game there are scouts from NBA for him, last Sunday against Panathinaikos it has been the turn of an assistant-coach from Los Angeles. 

Excluding Tapoutos, these players are starters in their teams, or stay many minutes on court. 

regards


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## RiSInG (Dec 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>suspect</b>!
> 
> No they are not comparable they are better. Fotsis is a much bigger talent than Navarro and Lopez, and he is proving it this year...
> Spanoulis is overall better than Lopez (Spanish Junior National Team has still nightmares from him in the Euro Under 20 Championship), Spanoulis has better ball distribution, is a way better defender, taller and has a better body structure. I don't get this Raul Lopez phenom, in order to survive in the NBA a player has to have a great bodystructure and play at least decent D........Lopez doesn't have any of these.....besides Lopez is seriously injured right now....I think you spanish fans are a bit to optimistic about him... I mean, in another forum some spanish fans were hyping him up calling him the best PG in the history of European bball.... that is bull****.
> ...


Rau Lopez isn't the best european PG,sure.

Another thing,when Gasol;lopez,Navarro,Felipe Reyes and all this guys were at the Junior World Championship;they won it beating USA in the finals.


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## AMR (Oct 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>suspect</b>!
> 
> No they are not comparable they are better. Fotsis is a much bigger talent than Navarro and Lopez, and he is proving it this year...
> Spanoulis is overall better than Lopez (Spanish Junior National Team has still nightmares from him in the Euro Under 20 Championship), Spanoulis has better ball distribution, is a way better defender, taller and has a better body structure. I don't get this Raul Lopez phenom, in order to survive in the NBA a player has to have a great bodystructure and play at least decent D........Lopez doesn't have any of these.....besides Lopez is seriously injured right now.
> Diamantopoulos might have a really bad attitude but afterall he is one of the 2-3 best European scorers (31 ppg in Champions Cup, 28 ppg in the Greek League), he is better than Navarro IMO (besides unlike Navarro he is not an undersized 2).


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA 

:laugh: 

going retro...


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