# Preseason: Jazz @ Raptors, October 12th



## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

<center>
















*Utah Jazz* (0-0) @ *Toronto Raptors* (0-0)
October 12th, 2005, 7:00PM EST
Airs: 11:00PM EST (Raptors NBATV)

<IMG WIDTH=100 HEIGHT=150 BORDER=0 ALT="WILLIAMS, DERON" TITLE="WILLIAMS, DERON" SRC="http://www.nbadraft.net/profiles/headshots/deron-williams-hd.jpg"> <IMG WIDTH=100 HEIGHT=150 BORDER=0 ALT="BROWN, DEVIN" TITLE="BROWN, DEVIN" SRC="/img/headshots/100x150/spurs/BROWN, DEVIN.jpg"> <IMG WIDTH=100 HEIGHT=150 BORDER=0 ALT="KIRILENKO, ANDREI" TITLE="KIRILENKO, ANDREI" SRC="/img/headshots/100x150/jazz/KIRILENKO, ANDREI.jpg"> <IMG WIDTH=100 HEIGHT=150 BORDER=0 ALT="BOOZER, CARLOS" TITLE="BOOZER, CARLOS" SRC="/img/headshots/100x150/jazz/BOOZER, CARLOS.jpg"> <IMG WIDTH=100 HEIGHT=150 BORDER=0 ALT="OKUR, MEHMET" TITLE="OKUR, MEHMET" SRC="/img/headshots/100x150/jazz/OKUR, MEHMET.jpg">
*Deron Williams, Devin Brown, Andrei Kirilenko, Carlos Boozer, Mehmet Okur*

<IMG WIDTH=100 HEIGHT=150 BORDER=0 ALT="JAMES, MIKE" TITLE="JAMES, MIKE" SRC="/img/headshots/100x150/bucks/JAMES, MIKE.jpg"> <IMG WIDTH=100 HEIGHT=150 BORDER=0 ALT="PETERSON, MORRIS" TITLE="PETERSON, MORRIS" SRC="/img/headshots/100x150/raptors/PETERSON, MORRIS.jpg"> <IMG WIDTH=100 HEIGHT=150 BORDER=0 ALT="ROSE, JALEN" TITLE="ROSE, JALEN" SRC="/img/headshots/100x150/raptors/ROSE, JALEN.jpg"> <IMG WIDTH=100 HEIGHT=150 BORDER=0 ALT="BOSH, CHRIS" TITLE="BOSH, CHRIS" SRC="/img/headshots/100x150/raptors/BOSH, CHRIS.jpg"> <IMG WIDTH=100 HEIGHT=150 BORDER=0 ALT="ARAUJO, RAFAEL" TITLE="ARAUJO, RAFAEL" SRC="/img/headshots/100x150/raptors/ARAUJO, RAFAEL.jpg">
*Mike James, Morris Peterson, Jalen Rose, Chris Bosh, Rafael Araujo*</center>


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

Obviously the lineups above are speculation on my part, and partially derived from the rotation thread in the Jazz forum (some argue McLeod will start, there is some debate between starting Harpring at the 2 instead of Brown, etc.).


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## madman (Oct 20, 2003)

ahh good old game threads cant wait for the real ones to start


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## Divine Spammer (Jul 11, 2005)

madman said:


> ahh good old game threads cant wait for the real ones to start


I really can't wait. 
Remind me to find out what's Maccabi's line-up and open a thread. ;]

I'm sorry for the slight O.T, but the game against Maccabi will be 1:00 pm, right? 
This is what the offcial site says. However, the game will be televised here in Israel in 11:00 pm, and they claim it'll be broadcasted Live, which makes no sense. 11o pm in Israel=9:00 pm GMT.


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

post padders rejoice.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

Let´s Get It On!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

I think this is a great matchup to start out with. Will be interesting to see if we get to see some big lline against AK47 at the 3. I think we take this one- we don´t lose a lot by going away from our starters and the youngins are going to be playing their guts out. Sloan isn´t going to play Kirilenko or Boozer that much. 

The X-factors for Utah are Deron Williams, who´s got a lot to prove, and Kris Humphries, who was only picked a couple of spots below Hoff.

I think Charlie has yet another good game. 

Hoffa will have a reasonable performance vs Okur so I can resurrect my thread.

Man I wish I could see this game.


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## sjinto (Oct 7, 2005)

I can't believe RaptorsTV doesn't show at least 4-5 preseason games :upset:


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## sjinto (Oct 7, 2005)

Mike James is going to be a big scorer on our team (avg about 15-18pts). I think he'll prove that right off the bat tonight against Utah.

It'll be nice to see what the rooks can do.

I hope Sam gives Aaron Williams a chance to p/u some minutes at the C spot (he's better than nothing - especially vs a small lineup). Same for Eric at the SF spot - he deserves some minutes based on reputation alone. Then he can prove the deal wasn't a complete loss.

We'll see how it pans out :biggrin:


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## changv10 (Apr 25, 2005)

Just a thought ... i think we should play the first 2-3 preseason games searching for the starters for the season. We will likely end up with:

James
Peterson
Rose
Bosh
Woods

So once that's set, we should play the rest of the preseason games like this:

Jose Calderon / Corey Williams / Robert Pack (switch starter on next game)
Alvin Williams / Tierre Brown (switch starter on next game)
Joey Graham / Matt Bonner / Bryant Matthews (switch starter on next game)
Charlie Villanueva / Pape Sow (switch starter on next game)
Rafael Araujo / Aaron Williams / Toree Morris (switch starter on next game)

Giving all the people fighting for minutes for the season in preseason is key.


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

will this be on the fan?


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

changv10 said:


> Just a thought ... i think we should play the first 2-3 preseason games searching for the starters for the season. We will likely end up with:
> 
> James
> Peterson
> ...


It's true that we need to find lots of minutes for the bubble guys to see who's going to be a bigger part of the rotation (and who will make the cut or be put on the IR) but we also need to get minutes for our normal starters so they can get back into the flow of the season.


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## MonsterBosh (Feb 9, 2005)

Mitchell has three major problems with this squad:

1. Bringing all the rookies and newbies up to NBA speed since the Raps will be so dependent on these unproven players.

2. Gel the veterans and rookies into some kind of playing units .... which may take most of the season.

3. Determine if the team has a playable center, or just 4 benchwarmers.


The Raps are loaded with scrub players who have proven they are not NBA prime time candidates. Add this to the rookies and newbies you have a recipe for disaster. 

The NCAA basketball season will be very important to rabid Raptor fans.


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## wind161 (Jun 19, 2005)

This is a good thread. BUT please do everyone a favour and DO NOT respond to the forum troll (MB). I want to see this thread kept relevant. 

Many thanks.


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

This game will be replayed on Raptors TV @ 11:00 in "Raptors Game In An Hour"...


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## JS03 (Jan 5, 2005)

err.. I need to get Raptorstv.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

Will be at the game. Will post thoughts upon return.


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## southeasy (Jun 11, 2003)

vigilante said:


> This game will be replayed on Raptors TV @ 11:00 in "Raptors Game In An Hour"...


thanks i'm going to set the tv to record it.


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## BaLLiStiX17 (Mar 27, 2005)

I guess ill just have to watch the highlights after the game..


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

Where is the game being played?


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

Well Loren Woods started the game, but Rafael Araujo has 2 points and 4 rebounds in 12 minutes of action so far.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

Woods started for us at centre.

Low scoring game so far (into the third).

We're getting outrebounded but lots of minutes are going to the kids.

Araujo has 4 boards in 12 minutes.

Bosh has 8 points and 3 boards in 12 minutes along with a block and five trips to the charity stripe.

Our free throw shooting has been poor.


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

Charlie Villanueva seems to be performing well. 8 points, 3 blocks and 1 assist in 16 minutes. 
Raptors down 50-48.


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

Calderon with 7 points, 2 assists and 2 rebounds in 14 minutes of action.


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

From what I hear, Alvin Williams would be lucky to play even one pre-season game. Any updates on his condition?


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

Turkish Delight said:


> Charlie Villanueva seems to be performing well. 8 points, 3 blocks and 1 assist in 16 minutes.
> Raptors down 50-48.


Yeah, 3 blocks. He's making someone have a long night.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

James Lang sighting. Didn't know that guy was signed for preseason. I thought he'd faded into obscurity already.


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## SteveHartfiel (Jun 8, 2003)

speedythief said:


> James Lang sighting. Didn't know that guy was signed for preseason. I thought he'd faded into obscurity already.



I remember really wanting the raptors to pick lang, however he was picked a couple picks ahead of us in the 2nd round I believe, by the hornets.


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## frank_white (Apr 20, 2005)

who's this tiere brown cat lighting it up? I've never heard of him


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

frank_white said:


> who's this tiere brown cat lighting it up? I've never heard of him


He's floated around the league. He played in Lakerland last year.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

Is there overtime in preseason?


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## spinz (Aug 19, 2005)

speedythief said:


> Is there overtime in preseason?



yes


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## JL2002 (Nov 30, 2003)

arrghhh....someone said there's a new Raps page look...i went in and saw the score!... so wat the hell, but looks like Tierre Brown got the Raps 3rd PG job as of now....


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## BaLLiStiX17 (Mar 27, 2005)

They lost 102-101?NOt sure


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## VTRapsfan (Dec 5, 2004)

Lost 102-101 in OT according to NBA.com.


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## adhir1 (Dec 28, 2004)

what im waiting for is MonsterBosh coming in and saying... see the raptors lost this game..its all over for you guys...you will not win one game in the season and Bosh will go to the states..and it will be the end of basketball in Canada, becuase we are not a big market..blah blah blah blah blah blah.....


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## MjM2xtreMe (Sep 1, 2005)

*Raptors lose 1st Preseason game*

The Raps lost their 1st preseason game 102-101 (OT). Tierre Brown suprised me and Villanueva played alot of minutes. Joey had a quite preseason debut only 14 mins.


here is the boxscore:

http://www.nba.com/games/20051012/UTATOR/boxscore.html


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## Thievery Corporation (Jul 2, 2005)

Glad CV did great. 

Some questions though. Was Tierre Brown any good in the previous NBA seasons? What the hell was up with Graham and Araujo?


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## [email protected] (Sep 27, 2005)

*Re: Raptors lose 1st Preseason game*

i dont think ive ever seen a game with such spread out minutes, way to get a feel :clap:


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## skip2 (Aug 4, 2005)

Saw the highlights:- 

Bosh with a verry nice dunk early as he blows by a defender and then dunks it with his left. 

CV showing off some footwork (although it was a questionable travel, but the refs didn't call it). 

Mike James to Graham To CV for the jam. 

Tierre has an ackward jumper IMO. It went in though so I'll take it. 

And then there was an alley-ooop from someone to Aa. 

Also, on that last play for CV, he kinda got away with just a wie push-off IMO. It's ok, as the refs gave him the benefit of the doubt (a rookie from toronto getting that ). 

That's all I remember. Enjoy .

And from a guy who watched the game (jim):-

just back from game and will do detailed notes.... 

but, here's some for now 

1) all due respect to LLJ, i thought CV3 looked great. i thought our starters and main lineup got killed on boards and then got killed late but that was with 3 PG's and a SG (SF??) out there 

2) calderon looked like a great leader. can't believe that he only had a few assists as he was tossing the ball all around... getting teammates involved and really leading out there. his shot wasn't dropping at all though. 

3) brown had great #'s and looks to be a good 3rd string PG, especially if he can pass a bit more. he did have good assist #'s but he was definitely looking for his own shot first alot. 

4) some BIG, BIG mop girl news but i'll leave that for later.... did she change her hair color?? ... OR something much bigger???


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## ColinBeehler (Oct 14, 2003)

> 4) some BIG, BIG mop girl news but i'll leave that for later.... did she change her hair color?? ... OR something much bigger???


boob job??? common... please say yes!


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## spinz (Aug 19, 2005)

adhir1 said:


> what im waiting for is MonsterBosh coming in and saying... see the raptors lost this game..its all over for you guys...you will not win one game in the season and Bosh will go to the states..and it will be the end of basketball in Canada, becuase we are not a big market..blah blah blah blah blah blah.....



same here :biggrin:


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## superdude211 (Apr 3, 2004)

*Re: Raptors lose 1st Preseason game*

Even though its still pre season the Raptors wekness is still thier defence


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

*Re: Raptors lose 1st Preseason game*

and so it begins


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## foul_balls (Jun 25, 2004)

*Re: Raptors lose 1st Preseason game*



MjM2xtreMe said:


> The Raps lost their 1st preseason game 102-101 (OT). Tierre Brown suprised me and Villanueva played alot of minutes. Joey had a quite preseason debut only 14 mins.


Joey is battling knee tendinitis apparently.


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## ansoncarter (Dec 22, 2004)

it's on Raps TV right now 

Charlie looks damn, damn good. His moves are SWEET! he missed a couple shots but he's been attacking and he's smooooth as hell. His offence is gonna be nice

Joey looks smaller than people were saying (Lemon Murray was bigger than him. Maggette is way more ripped. Joey's hardly the incredible hulk out there. And he looks kinda slow too. Oh well...)

Kirilenko's mohawk looks more ridiculous than ever. And he's wearing a Rip Hamilton mask to boot lol


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

Was at the game.

Tierre Brown WILL be our 3rd point based on his performance. He shot the ball well, penetrated and finished also.

Calderon looked solid. He can and will shoot the ball better than he did. He would have had quite a few more assists had the finishes sunk. Very vocal. D was also solid, moved very well.

Joey looked OK for the time I saw him. He had a nice drive from the left wing where the ref said he pushed off. It looked fine and Sam was pissed.

CV was very active. Did not get a ton of boards. Had a great block at the close as well as a big put back that temporarily gave the Raps the lead at the end.

Deron Williams is a player. He and Calderon were going at it there for a couple of minutes. And Calderon beat him off the dribble twice in a row. Very impressive. DW shot it very well and showed his handles.

Hoffa was bad. I watched him real close. He just does not have great rebounding or general positional instincts. He had a shot blocked easily and you knew it was coming V. ostertag. He turned it over awkwardly. He also failed to finish some very easy chances. This young man needs to get his confidence up. Right now he is just not there.


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## ansoncarter (Dec 22, 2004)

haha. Palacio just missed a layup


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## MonsterBosh (Feb 9, 2005)

Wow!!!.... 24 pts from Tierre Brown, a 6'2", 189#, 26 year old guard ... quick sign him up to a $10 Mil, 4 year contract ... !!!!!!

Saw the tail end of Sam Mitchell's tv post game news conference and he said that in searching for a starting center, all he wanted was rebounding and defence ... if somebody wanted the position badly enough .... now he sounds beyond desperate ... verging on pathetic .... :laugh:


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## ansoncarter (Dec 22, 2004)

yeah our rebounding is going to be atrocious again


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## adhir1 (Dec 28, 2004)

the new court caught me by surprise...i was watching the game and it hit me..wtf???? is that the ACC...after all those years of the black and purple it just looks different to me...but as long as we have the purple on the unis...it doesnt make sense....


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## [email protected] (Sep 27, 2005)

loren woods is a unconfident twit. 
he's perfect for the job, if he gets pissed.

i saw him in a restaurant once last season.
i asked him for his autograph.
he was like ..uh? *blushes* sure *blushes even more* *scribbles*
im like...wtf is w/ this guy, if he's shy around me, wtf is he gonna do when he runs into Adonal Foyle lol?


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## TRON (Feb 29, 2004)

I went to game as well...



> Originally posted by *blowuptheraptors !*
> 
> Tierre Brown WILL be our 3rd point based on his performance. He shot the ball well, penetrated and finished also.


We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. He is absolute black hole on offense, and kinda reminds me of Skip in that he loves to shoot the ball, and while he put up good numbers, he kills the team style basket-ball that I started to see in the first half. Homocide and Pack were even less impressive so this guy might just get it by default.


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## ansoncarter (Dec 22, 2004)

he even moved like skip. Same armband too lol 

I think he looked terrific for a third stringer. He's gotta be the frontrunner (unless they want Pack for the dressing room. Or if his marketing campaign of praising BOsh works)


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## TRON (Feb 29, 2004)

*Jose Calderon*
looked great, ran the offense well, guarded well. He doesn't have the jump shot, but he is exactly what we are looking for in a PG. also he's strong and he is big for a point, easily finishing at the rim on a few nice drives. I was most impressed with his composure and court vision when running the offense. 

*Aaron Williams*
even though he fouled out, I thought he was the most competent version of a center we put out there. he played tough and looked like he is actually interested in playin this year. If he keeps this up, he will definetely crack the rotation. With the ineptness of Loren Woods and Hoffa, I would give this guy the start the way he came to play today


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## ansoncarter (Dec 22, 2004)

what did you think of Charlie?

I thought people would be raving about him. He looked fantastic. Only one game and all, but I'm absolutely psyched about him after seeing that lol 

(interior d and rebounding will kill us again, and Bosh/CV still doesn't seem like a good fit, but damn. Charlie can play)


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## TRON (Feb 29, 2004)

Best lineup tonight IMO...

PG-Calderon
SG-MoPete
SF-Graham 
PF-CV
C-Bosh

^this could be some entertaining basketball when they get used to eachother


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## TRON (Feb 29, 2004)

> Originally posted by *ansoncarter !*
> 
> what did you think of Charlie?
> I thought people would be raving about him. He looked fantastic. Only one game and all, but I'm absolutely psyched about him after seeing that lol


he looked really good as well, I think people are now expecting that from him that is why nobody is raving about his good play today. he is smooth, can run the floor like few bigs can and has range out to 3 point land while being able to play in the post  
I am very excited about this kid, every bit of doubt that I had in Babcock for picking him 7th is absolutely, completely gone!!!!!

him and Chris together will be prove to be a nightmare for opposing Defenses, I think they will form a great tandem once CV improves his defensive rebounding positioning


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## Q8i (Oct 23, 2004)

Players That I Think Shud Leave, After Watchin The Game..
Aaron Williams *(Too Slow, Gettin Old)*
Corey Williams *(Hes One Of Those Streetballers, Who Played Good On The Street, But They're Nervous When They Play In The League, Also The Way He Was Playin Today Was Not The Way He Was Playin In EBC)*


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## essaywhuman (Aug 10, 2005)

If I were you guys I wouldn't be sold on Tierre just yet.

He played extremely well in preseason for us last year but in the regular season he was terrible.
But then again, you guys have much more depth at PG than we did last year, so I guess he wouldn't be that bad.


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## Raptorsfan2 (Jul 16, 2005)

*Re: Raptors lose 1st Preseason game*



foul_balls said:


> Joey is battling knee tendinitis apparently.


Look for Joey Graham to sit out some games if not all pre-season with knee tendinitis.The best way to avoid knee tendinitis is good pre-season training.However once it occurs as it looks to be the case with Graham the treatment would be rest.I hope this is NOT severe and that there is no tear of the ligament, i.e that it is just inflammation.

The other name for it "Jumper's knee"!!!!
Does this remind you of an ex-raptor....................
I hope is NOT the same case.


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## Rhubarb (Mar 19, 2005)

Rather pleased that Charlie's gotten off on the right foot. Promising signs, even if it is just a pre-season game.

As most have mentioned already, hopefully Joey's knee injury isn't too bad. A few good days rest should suffice; no point rushing him in for minutes now.

Can't do much but catch the many updates I expect this board to provide  Thanks in advance.


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## billfindlay10 (Jan 24, 2003)

How did Mathews look...the line in the box score semed good. I know we are not looking for another wing player, but 4 steals and a good shot pecentage...can this kid play?


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## JL2002 (Nov 30, 2003)

CharlieV kinda remind me of Dirk.....maybe its just me....and of course Charlie's shot is not as accurate as Dirk.


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## GuelphRaptorsFan (Apr 9, 2003)

Sometimes a box score really does say it all:

Rafael Araujo: 1 for 4 shooting, 4 turnovers, 4 fouls in 15 minutes
Corey Williams: 1 for 3 shooting, 1 for 5 from the line, 5 turnovers, 4 fouls in 15 minutes

Obviously nobody's ever had high expectations for Corey Williams, but if Araujo can't do better than that against a preseason Utah lineup after a whole season's preparation, its now time for me to officially join the bandwagon and come right out and voice my opinion that we should end the Araujo experiment and just let him rot on the bench until his contract expires.


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## ansoncarter (Dec 22, 2004)

billfindlay10 said:


> How did Mathews look...the line in the box score semed good. I know we are not looking for another wing player, but 4 steals and a good shot pecentage...can this kid play?


for me, he didn't really leave an impression, other than he played hard on D (he was hounding Kirilenko around pretty good in the first. Did all right from whatI remember). Didn't notice him much on offence, other than a putback dunk that made Swirsky go bonkers, but wasn't anything special

he looked pretty good on D I guess. Not sure what he's all about really. His athleticism was a little underwhelming after reading his scouting report, and some of the comments about him on the net


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

How did Charlie get his blocks? Were they from good defensive position or what?


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## ansoncarter (Dec 22, 2004)

I must not have watched close because I only remember seeing one lol

it was dramatic though, even if it came off help. Near the end of the game too, when it was close. His timing was perfect, just came out of nowhere. Had that crazy look in his eye too lol. (Charlie's 'crazy' look is seriously disturbing. Like he wants to kill people)

they're showing the game again at 9:30 if people are at home like me and my cat who I hate and am going to kick if he doesn't get out of my room


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## sjinto (Oct 7, 2005)

*the good:*

the one move and dunk finish by Bosh tells me he's going to have a monster year... i think we'll be seeing a lot of that this year :banana:

Calderon seems like he can run the offence - looks confident

*the bad:*

Hoffa is still unsure of himself... still seems lost on the court

CV wasn't hitting the boards like he could - seemed to be looking to score instead

*the ugly:*

corey williams and robert pack - fortunately TB will be a decent 3rd option

our starting C (LW)

we got outrebounded big time - this is defintely not good


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## Junkyard Dog13 (Aug 9, 2003)

start hoffa as the C but mid 1st tr bring on Charlie and move Bosh to C.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

TRON said:


> I went to game as well...
> 
> 
> 
> We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. He is absolute black hole on offense, and kinda reminds me of Skip in that he loves to shoot the ball, and while he put up good numbers, he kills the team style basket-ball that I started to see in the first half. Homocide and Pack were even less impressive so this guy might just get it by default.


I did see him give it up down in the second half. It is preseason and he certainly was the best of a bad bunch so my proclamation is not really going out on a limb.

I only remember one CV block which was spectacular towards the end. From help.


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## wind161 (Jun 19, 2005)

Hi guys, I went to the game and also watched a bit of RapTV. I'll just quickly lay out some key observations I believe are of interest.

- I'm not sold on Tier Brown. He needs the ball to be effective and that might not be the best thing for Toronto. I like the fact that he loves to penetrate, but his passes are wild and weren't easy to catch.

- I agree with what ppl said about Calderon and DW.

- I didn't even notice Corey Williams....

- Matthews: didn't play as bad as his stat suggested. He was very active on the defensive end, had some good defensive boards and I think he had 4 steals. On the offence end though, he forced up 2 long jumpers and attempted a baseline dunk going right into the defender (blocked...)

- REBOUNDING: I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that the Raps are doomed in this department. For the last quarter and in OT, Mitchell played Calderon/Pack/Tier Brown/CV/AWill then Matthews (that's 3 PGs). I have to admit that I was disappointed at CV's rebounding, considering the minutes and the position he was playing... only 3 rebounds in the second half. And when was AWill a good rebounder? Our other "rebounders" barely played the second half. Somehow, I think Sam deliberately went small in the 2nd half to exaggerate the rebounding gap. I think he was disappointed with his rebounders in the 1st and wants to deliver a message to his team... but that's just a guess. 

- Araujo, agreed with what ppl said about him.

Let's not conclude anything so early, it's just the first PREseason game.


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## wind161 (Jun 19, 2005)

blowuptheraptors said:


> I did see him give it up down in the second half. It is preseason and he certainly was the best of a bad bunch so my proclamation is not really going out on a limb.
> 
> I only remember one CV block which was spectacular towards the end. From help.


 I will have to side with TRON. I don't see how he will fit with the team considering his style of play. He may be a good player off the bench to provide some offensive sparks... but that sorta duplicates what Mike James does... Right now.. its Pack's veteran experience versus Brown's penetration and ability to get to the line.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

*Re: Raptors lose 1st Preseason game*



Mr_B said:


> and so it begins


Thanks for the contribution.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

wind161 said:


> I will have to side with TRON. I don't see how he will fit with the team considering his style of play. He may be a good player off the bench to provide some offensive sparks... but that sorta duplicates what Mike James does... Right now.. its Pack's veteran experience versus Brown's penetration and ability to get to the line.


Who knows what they will decide. On pure skills, Tierre showed way more than the others. Remember this guy whoever he is will play behind James and Calderon and probably will not see the floor most nights. That vet experience missed 2 crucial FTs down the stretch so, I don't give Pack much there.

Also, Tierre was not exactly playing with people you could justify him feeding every turn. Even still he got 7 asts. If he were to step in on the floor with Bosh, Mo and Jalen, Sam would chew his arse out for taking some if not all of those 3s.


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## sjinto (Oct 7, 2005)

wind161 said:


> He may be a good player off the bench to provide some offensive sparks... but that sorta duplicates what Mike James does... Right now..


Mike James might have done that for Houston last year but this year his role will be different... we'll need him to be a solid starter / veteran leader

TB will be to the Raptors what MJ was to Houston last year.... our boost of the bench


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

Sorry I'm late. Had a meeting this morning and couldn't post.

A few quick notes.

This game was all about player evaluation. Virtually no units that we will see during the year. Sam played 3 PGs for large chunks of the second half.

The tradition continues as the Raps make Robert Whaley look like a lottery pick and all-star. All our post defenders were abused by the average front line of the Jazz.

Bosh was GREAT on O and HORRIBLE on D. Okur schooled him on the low block 1 on 1 for an easy spin and dunk.

Villy was backed down easily in the post by Whaley and pushed around by Lang. 

Rotations were horrible, just like last year

Corey Williams looked as bad as a player can possibly look. Maybe it was nerves but he stunk up the joint big time. Robert Pack looked almost as bad. Could have been worse but they didn't show as many minutes of him. He was so badly abused by Andre Owens it was embarassing. Looked like a total rookie out there. Both had better look much better next game or its a quick cut for both.

And Tierre Brown? I knew some people would be all over his jock with his scoring, but he had total tunnel vision for the basket and showed zero ability to run an offense and almost never looked to pass. Not impressed, and I bet he hurt himself with the coaches with a selfish effort. At least he showed something, which is more than the other two guys.

Didn't see enough of Graham to comment. Very smooth J on one pull up shot off the break.

Calderon brought great energy on both ends in the first half. He is the only guy that looked like a PG on our team. Had some trouble with strong on the ball pressure.

Charlie ended the game with 2 nice plays but I was disappointed with his footwork and strength. He got backed down way too easy on D, giving up easy little shots in the paint. And on O he is definitely a perimeter guy and is not strong with the ball. He gets knocked off balance easily, like Bosh did in his rookie year. Needs to learn to absorb the contact and fight through it. 
Looked awkward at times.

Hoff's body showed huge improvement, as advertised, but his game looked pretty much the same. Didn't see anybody attack him in the low blocks. To me that's his big benefit. Guys can't back him down 1 on 1. And he looked to be rebounding better.

Aaron Williams actually looked pretty good at times.

Won't make any big judgements on just this one sloppy game.


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## MonsterBosh (Feb 9, 2005)

lucky777s said:


> Won't make any big judgements on just this one sloppy game.


So do you think a couple of good practices will help ... or what you see is what you get ..???!!!!

Rebuilding can be brutal and things may get a lot worse before they get better ...


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

Preseason is too long. Holy cow, we have 7 more games to play.

Bonner back in New Hampshire tomorrow. Should be a fun time for him.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

lucky777s said:


> And Tierre Brown? I knew some people would be all over his jock with his scoring, but he had total tunnel vision for the basket and showed zero ability to run an offense and almost never looked to pass. Not impressed, and I bet he hurt himself with the coaches with a selfish effort. At least he showed something, which is more than the other two guys.


A) how is he getting this flak with 7 asts?

B) if he did not pass enough, who should he have passed to? He was playing with the all-NBDL team for most of the game.


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## TRON (Feb 29, 2004)

^
B) That is where I blame Sam, what the h*** was he thinking...how do you actually evaluate your point guard when you have a lineup he had out there, it wasn't giving him much of a chance to succeed. 

I would have loved to see Pack, Williams and Brown *individually * get a chance to run the offense with something close to our regular season team lineup, instead they got an unbalanced lineup of unknowns. Late in the game when he put out Brown, Pack and Calderon(at the 3???) at the same time, it reminded me of the of a move the great Lenny Wilkens would do.


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

speedythief said:


> Preseason is too long. Holy cow, we have 7 more games to play.
> 
> Bonner back in New Hampshire tomorrow. Should be a fun time for him.


Are you serious? I didn't even notice that. I want the regular season to start already!


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

TRON said:


> ^
> B) That is where I blame Sam, what the h*** was he thinking...how do you actually evaluate your point guard when you have a lineup he had out there, it wasn't giving him much of a chance to succeed.
> 
> I would have loved to see Pack, Williams and Brown *individually * get a chance to run the offense with something close to our regular season team lineup, instead they got an unbalanced lineup of unknowns. Late in the game when he put out Brown, Pack and Calderon(at the 3???) at the same time, it reminded me of the of a move the great Lenny Wilkens would do.


Exactly, I can't blame him for penetrating himself. He did get some serious FTs.


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## ati (Aug 10, 2003)

I know this is not a too important question, but...

What was the introduction music? Still the Kid Rock song?


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## ballocks (May 15, 2003)

this game's getting a lot of coverage- not just cuz it's the preseason either. this would be a lot of coverage for a reg season game, i think, and i'm enjoying it (some of it). i didn't see it for myself, but i think the reason it's getting so much play (at least part of the reason) is because this team sports a ton of uncertainty heading in. it's not bad uncertainty from my point of view but it's uncertainty nonetheless. 

there are a lot of new players, and even our returning players have a lot of attention on them (like bosh, hoffa, sow, ewill, etc.). it might have to do with all the attention that was normally booked for carter not having anywhere to go this year. i dunno.

i wouldn't mind reading a little more about calderon and hoffa, if someone wouldn't mind. we have some conflicting views in this thread and i'm just trying to get my head around it. i find those two to be really interesting (important?) pieces this year. 

(thanks for all the other posts, too.)

peace


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