# Raptors Sign Jarrett Jack to Offer Sheet



## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

Indiana have 7 days to match... 


Thoughts?


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

Obvious move to please Chris , I remember on draft night they were calling him the "The Chris Bosh Pick" since that was his best friend in college but he is serviceable if he does sign then that means either Roko or Duby out the door can't have 4 PG's


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

Jack is more in the vein of Douby so I suspect it will be him that gets the push. Or maybe that's due to my man-love for Ukic? 

I always suspected we would end up with Jack for the sake of Bosh. I'm still not sold on having Bosh as the face of our franchise but hopefully Hedo or Bargs can step up and become the man on the team, because it's painfully obvious Bosh doesn't have the presence. 

Will the Pacers be ok with a PG rotation of TJ Ford and Tinsley? Surely they'll match or go after somebody else. 

I personally really liked Sessions but maybe he was a little out of our price range.


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## WillFlight! (Jul 11, 2009)

Terms?

Jack is a bit of a combo guard who plays the point well. He would be a great 3rd guard in the rotation as he can play with Jose or come in for him. It is a big plus to have him if Jose goes down as he is starter quality.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

I like Jack and hopes that Indiana doesn't match. He plays defense and can play the 2.


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## vinsanity77 (May 1, 2006)

please don't match Indiana....
also,
if we got JJ, can we still sign delfino?

Jose/JJ/Ukic
Delfino/DD/Wright
Turk/George
Bosh/Evans/Pops
Bargnani/POB

Possibly with Rasho signing with us again and backing up Bargs instead of POB, we would have a legit playoff team next year


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

JJ will take up most if not all the MLE. Delfino has nothing to do with MLE due to us owning his bird rights, ergo we can still sign Delf. 

We're a little weak at the 3 and 5, but I fully expect Rasho to be a Raptor come 09/10 season tip off which leaves getting rid of George for somebody who can actually play the game of basketball.

@ WillFlight! terms won't be released till either Indiana match or the time period elapses and he officially signs for the Raptors.


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## WillFlight! (Jul 11, 2009)

Doug Smith is reporting it is a 4 year deal...no news on $$$

We should ot be looking at Pops as a back-up, don't you think he would be playing summer league if he were in the plans?


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

He's proved he can play in the league and the Raptor system, no need to play summe league. I'm sure Pops will be 12/13th man on the rotation/


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Colangelo's really been active this offseason. Good draft, questionable contract extension and signings, but he's definitely been active. Bosh should be happy.


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## Junkyard Dog13 (Aug 9, 2003)

is'nt the Pacers org broke? unless they soon get new ownership it might be unlikely they shell out top dollar for Gragner.
I hope they dont match.
Full MLe we looking at 4 years between 22-24 mill


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## -James- (Apr 27, 2004)

seifer0406 said:


> I like Jack and hopes that Indiana doesn't match. He plays defense and can play the 2.


Bingo. I wanted Toney Douglas really bad last month draft but honestly, this is even better (depending on the terms of the deal, of course). I also think as an under-sized 2 guard, Jack is an ideal fit playing with Roko. We needed a guy who could come off the bench and score and if Indy doesn't match I think we've got one.


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## changv10 (Apr 25, 2005)

Here's the link:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4321678

4 years $20 million. So not using the full MLE. This is a very good contract for Jack. What's important is:

Given the Pacers financial situation, it's UNLIKELY THEY WILL MATCH the offer, a source close to the process told ESPN.com.

This is great news, BC has done it again. I've been wanting Jack in this team since he was a Blazer. Now we get him through FA. He will contend that point guard spot with Calderon ... he's great at driving down the lane and creating opportunities for others. Developing a better shot and makes others better. 

STATS:
13.1 points, 3.4 rebounds and 4.1 assists 

ps notice the similarities to Hedo:
15.8 points, 4.5 boards and 4.8 assists

We are getting awesome all-around basketball players. Time to celebrate ! : )

We need Rasho with LLE and Delfino resigned. That's all that's needed. 

Calderon / Jack / Ukic
Derozan / Delfino / Douby
Turkoglu / Wright / George
Bosh / Evans / Pops
Bargniani / Nesterovic / O'Bryant

That's fantastic depth ... i'm really excited about the potential of this team !


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## c_dog (Sep 15, 2002)

jack would finally give us a good backup since tjford left, and this time we get a player who's less likely to be a question mark game to game. with tj you never know if his back was going to hold up that day. if we get delfino to backup the 2, then we are set for our backcourt.

i still wouldn't call the depth fantastic. wright, ukic, george, evans, pops, nesterovic, and o'bryant are pretty garbage. now ukic still has a chance if he develops some sort of offensive game but with jack here, he's not much more than a bench warmer. evans actually has nba level ball grabbing skills but he is a liability on offense and is not a good defender either. other guys are pure trash that i don't want to bother writing anything about them(though i will say nesterovic is one of the most recycled stiffs in the league). wright is pretty garbage too, i have no idea where people get the idea that he's a good role player. he's a major downgrade from anthony parker. unreliable jumpshot, and worse defender. We're about two bigman away from having "fantastic" depth.


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## WillFlight! (Jul 11, 2009)

In defense of Rasho, He is a solid back-up center, he moves the ball, makes the midrange jumper, and has a decent touch around the hoop. He has never been a huge rebounder but he will do more than fine in the 10-15 minutes he will get in a game. You can't underestimate veteran savvy, and Rasho brings that. 

Wright may not be the AP, but he did start over 50 games for Dallas last year. His shot could use some work, but his defense will be as good as Parkers was last year. He does not turn the ball over and knows how to accept a roll. Look at what Dahntay Jones did for Denver last year. Ukic is still a question mark, but he he has had some success in games last year and if he can bring a little more consistency he will be valuable. Pops and O'Bryant and bodies for sure, but as much of an offensive liability Evans is he will bring what we need him to in his limited minutes.


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## Dee-Zy (Jan 12, 2006)

This is great news for raps.

Calderon/Jack/Ukic
Fino/DeRozan
Hedo/Wright
Bosh/Evans/Pops
Gnani/Rasho

Is a great looking team. They are an offensive spark off the bench away from becoming a 2nd round team.

Who can they get as an offensive spark though?

The only FA this year I see is Juan Dixon but with the signing of Jarret Jack, that is a little redundant... unless a second unit of JJ and Dixon makes sense to the raps.

If this team fails again, it is about the management/coaching staff that can't get them to play to their potential/talent.

Bringing in Hedo, Jarret Jack, Fino and Rasho would be a huge upgrade from last year. I think Evans is a better rebounder and defender than Humphries as well.

BC has been working hard this off season. props


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

Evans is a world better than Hump. 

Smush Parker or Quincy Douby Doo can be a cheap spark for the second unit as both can put the ball in the hoop, although like I've mentioned this team should only be using a 9/10 man regular rotation with Ukic, Pops and another sitting for large amounts of time. 

People are seeing it as a cut and dry 5 man starting rotation with the second unit replacing them at every spot. How often does that actually happen? The team will rotate around and the second unit will literally always have one of our big three on the floor to play ball with and put the ball in the hoop. One of the big three (bosh, bargs and hedo) along with Jack shall be fine as Mar Mar, Rasho, Wright and Evans will contribute (the first two more than the latter two) ... 

To me with Jack we're already looking like a solid playoff team with the potential to really contend for the EC.


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

BC a clever guy lol knowing Indy has 65 million in committed salary going into this season with only 9 players signed and 70 Million the absolute limit before going into Luxury Tax he offers 5 Mill a year to Jack which puts the pacers in a no win situation, they couldn't match if they wanted to. Also I see alot of you guys have DD penciled in as our starting SG don't you think it be better to start Delfino atleast at first? I'd rather ease DD into things rather then throwing him to the wolves


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## Junkyard Dog13 (Aug 9, 2003)

both Demar and if Delfino haven't started, Fin was 2nd unit guy with us could he put up decent starting numbers might be wise let fino start 1st 15-25 games and see by how much DD's numbers 2nd unit guy increase and how his FG % is doing.

Does Jack have the offensive game for the 2, i remember when hew was in the draft he was ranked as a good past 1st PG his FG numbers are alright if all goes through I expect 25 MPG about 14 min as the back up PG and maybe 11 at SG 25 MPG 8.5 PPG 5 APG 3 RBD/game Fg 47% 37% from 3.


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## NorthSideHatrik (Mar 11, 2003)

I'm going to miss having Jack in Indiana. He was one of the only players who was even remotely "Clutch". I think playing in Indy really helped his game grow too. He was put in a spot where he really needed to step up a bit and he responded really well. He is absolutely outstanding at getting to the line in the closing minutes of a game. He's just an outstanding versitile character/glue type guy. I'm pissed he's gone.


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## vinsanity77 (May 1, 2006)

NorthSideHatrik said:


> I'm going to miss having Jack in Indiana. He was one of the only players who was even remotely "Clutch". I think playing in Indy really helped his game grow too. He was put in a spot where he really needed to step up a bit and he responded really well. He is absolutely outstanding at getting to the line in the closing minutes of a game. He's just an outstanding versitile character/glue type guy. I'm pissed he's gone.


hey, don't be so sure yet. the Pacers could match and trade other guys on the team. Unlikely, but not impossible


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

Porn_Player said:


> One of the big three (bosh, bargs and hedo) along with Jack shall be fine as *Mar Mar*, Rasho, Wright and Evans will contribute (the first two more than the latter two) ...


I hope DeMar DeRozan finds you and slaps you in the face for that.

Also, I don't think anyone is assuming that you have a 10 man rotation in which the bench players always play together - you just want to be at least 2 quality players deep at every spot.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

Damian Necronamous said:


> I hope DeMar DeRozan finds you and slaps you in the face for that.
> 
> Also, I don't think anyone is assuming that you have a 10 man rotation in which the bench players always play together - you just want to be at least 2 quality players deep at every spot.


I'll have you know that's what his mother calls him, and me and his mother are rather tight. 

I didn't think people were assuming that, I was sick of seeing posts where people queried the scoring potential of our second unit when really they won't be relied on to score all that much. 

Our weakest spots are at 2/3 but with JJ coming in that leaves me worried about the depth at 3, but meh I'm sure one of Wright or George will turn out ok in our system (95% likely that player is Wright)

Wouldn't be suprised to see George get cut.


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## changv10 (Apr 25, 2005)

Check this out: 
http://video.google.ca/videosearch?...=wv#q=jarrett+jack+nba+highlights&hl=en&emb=0

A good all around set of highlights from Jarrett Jack. I think his greatest asset is creating off the dribble and penetrating to the basket. Finishes great with both hands, finds the open man, can shoot the 3 ... very smart player overall. GREAT PICKUP if as expected Pacers don't match.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

Porn_Player said:


> I'll have you know that's what his mother calls him, and me and his mother are rather tight.


Ok fine. You're off the hook.

But still...that's the worst nickname ever.

And yeah, George has to be cut. He is just awful.


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## Dee-Zy (Jan 12, 2006)

Hedo, Fino, Wright, DeRozan is not that bad at the 2/3. I think JJ can play some 2 as well. He has the size to play it in spurts.

How is JJ's D?


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

Jack's d is a lot better than Calderon. He isn't the most athletic guy but has a lot of strength and plays hard nose defense. I think if the Raptors want to go small, a lineup of Ukic/Jack/DeRozan/Turk/Bosh can work in stretches.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

As for Rasho I hope we can sign him for under 3 mil a year. He is a solid backup that gives you 10-15 min a game. Oberto was recently waived by Detroit(?), he is another guy that I would take a look at.


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## Knick Killer (Jul 16, 2006)

This team is looking pretty damn good!


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## changv10 (Apr 25, 2005)

seifer0406 said:


> As for Rasho I hope we can sign him for under 3 mil a year. He is a solid backup that gives you 10-15 min a game. Oberto was recently waived by Detroit(?), he is another guy that I would take a look at.


Good point, Fabricio Oberto is a good player. I wonder why they wave him after losing Wallace.


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## c_dog (Sep 15, 2002)

WillFlight! said:


> In defense of Rasho, He is a solid back-up center, he moves the ball, makes the midrange jumper, and has a decent touch around the hoop. He has never been a huge rebounder but he will do more than fine in the 10-15 minutes he will get in a game. You can't underestimate veteran savvy, and Rasho brings that.
> 
> Wright may not be the AP, but he did start over 50 games for Dallas last year. His shot could use some work, but his defense will be as good as Parkers was last year. He does not turn the ball over and knows how to accept a roll. Look at what Dahntay Jones did for Denver last year. Ukic is still a question mark, but he he has had some success in games last year and if he can bring a little more consistency he will be valuable. Pops and O'Bryant and bodies for sure, but as much of an offensive liability Evans is he will bring what we need him to in his limited minutes.


all those things you said about rasho is exactly what makes him one of the most recycled garbage stiffs in the league. veteran savvy? fine for 10-15 minutes? i'd like to think the raptors have better scouts to bring in some quality players than this guy. his touch around the rim is actually very bad. i'm not a 7footer but even i find hooks/layups around the rim rather easy especially when you have size over your opponents. i can't count the number of times where rasho has great looks and never finish. he doesn't rebound the ball despite his size, and he's a sieve on defense. he gets owned by mediocre centers with half decent offense. and you make him sound like he's mark blount with his jumpshot. mark blount in a terrible player also but he's lightyears ahead of rasho when we're talking about bigman who can knock down the open shot. i still haven't forgotten how terrible he was for us nor how terrible he was with the wolves.

wright did start but he was also the weakest link of the mavs. i just don't think he's nba level talent. now jones is actually pretty good.. dahntay jones was always a really good defender, and he's finally learned to shoot(only thing keeping him back) and is possibly one of the best dunkers in the nba. he's a nice player to have at 3mil(good job indy). wright is not dahntay jones.. there are plenty of players like wright and they play in the nbdl.


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## WillFlight! (Jul 11, 2009)

c_dog said:


> all those things you said about rasho is exactly what makes him one of the most recycled garbage stiffs in the league. veteran savvy? fine for 10-15 minutes? i'd like to think the raptors have better scouts to bring in some quality players than this guy. his touch around the rim is actually very bad. i'm not a 7footer but even i find hooks/layups around the rim rather easy especially when you have size over your opponents. i can't count the number of times where rasho has great looks and never finish. he doesn't rebound the ball despite his size, and he's a sieve on defense. he gets owned by mediocre centers with half decent offense. and you make him sound like he's mark blount with his jumpshot. mark blount in a terrible player also but he's lightyears ahead of rasho when we're talking about bigman who can knock down the open shot. i still haven't forgotten how terrible he was for us nor how terrible he was with the wolves.
> 
> wright did start but he was also the weakest link of the mavs. i just don't think he's nba level talent. now jones is actually pretty good.. dahntay jones was always a really good defender, and he's finally learned to shoot(only thing keeping him back) and is possibly one of the best dunkers in the nba. he's a nice player to have at 3mil(good job indy). wright is not dahntay jones.. there are plenty of players like wright and they play in the nbdl.


So you would rather some young bigman with upside that turns the ball over and plays wild? Take a look out there of the 7 footers available for the same money and tell me who you would rather have. Mikki Moore, Magloire? By no means am I saying Rasho is the be all and end all of back-ups, but for the money and chemistry he is a very good fit. Rasho also has shot over 50% from the field for his career, so his touch is not as bad as you make it out to be. 

As for Wright he is a player we have, are there better out there, yes, can he be an asset though, yes. It took Jones till this past season to make a name for himself. He is 28 years old and has one good season in his first 6.....what makes him so much better. Can Wright not build on a decent year from last season as a younger player?


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## Dee-Zy (Jan 12, 2006)

Rasho is a bigman that can push around some players in the paint or atleast, won't get pushed over by other big men ie Dwight. I have no problem with him in TO.

If Oberto is available, Raps have to go after him. Afteral, SA dropped Rasho for Oberto. He is more athletic than Rasho and will work better beside Bosh/Bargs.


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## c_dog (Sep 15, 2002)

WillFlight! said:


> So you would rather some young bigman with upside that turns the ball over and plays wild? Take a look out there of the 7 footers available for the same money and tell me who you would rather have. Mikki Moore, Magloire? By no means am I saying Rasho is the be all and end all of back-ups, but for the money and chemistry he is a very good fit. Rasho also has shot over 50% from the field for his career, so his touch is not as bad as you make it out to be.
> 
> As for Wright he is a player we have, are there better out there, yes, can he be an asset though, yes. It took Jones till this past season to make a name for himself. He is 28 years old and has one good season in his first 6.....what makes him so much better. Can Wright not build on a decent year from last season as a younger player?


patrick o'bryant isn't great but i rather give him all of rasho's minutes. at least o'bryant is athletic and has room to grow. rasho is just going to be underwhelmingly bad. rasho's fg% isn't bad but have you seen what kind of shots he takes/passes up to get that fg%? guy passes up shots you expect high school players to make because he's so bad on offense and he knows it. rasho's slightly better than o'bryant at the moment, but give o'bryant a season and he can become better than rasho(which may not be saying much).

jones was always a good player. it's one of those mysteries as to why grizzlies never made him part of their core. obviously teams believed in his talents and it paid off dividends for denver. there are old threads in these forums talking about what a great defender he was(i'm not kidding, there were threads about him touted as kobe stopper when he was a sophmore) and how some grizz fans were expecting him to "break out"(never got the minutes to do it). you could tell from day one that jones could be an nba role player at the very least, just from his great defense and ability to finish. it's a shame because i believe he was even on the raptors' summer league team 2-3 years ago and i really wanted us to sign him.


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## Junkyard Dog13 (Aug 9, 2003)

if all indications are correct indy cant match then its just gonna be down to 1 last signing rasho or oberto/mags

then heading into camp our depth chart will be

PG Calderon Jack Ukic
SG Derozan Wright Douby
SF Turkoglu George
PF Bosh Evans Pop
C Bargnani rasho(*best guess as is his name by the raps has come up)* O Bryant

With most likely Douby Pop and O Bryant not making the final roster.


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## changv10 (Apr 25, 2005)

News:
- Oberto has signed an offer sheet, he's gone. 
- Magic unexpectedly match the offer from Dallas for Gortat 

I hope the Pacers don't do the same for Jack, I hope he comes play for the raps. I think that would make leaps and bounds of a difference for Bosh to stay here long term.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

Blah I wouldn't mind Bosh leaving. 

Rumours of Iverson going to the Clips for the MLE. Now that starting line up 

PG - Jose
SG - Iverson
SF - Hedo
PF - Bosh
C - Bargnani

The starting core could average 95points a game and would be the most entertaining team in the league to watch for sure.


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## Dee-Zy (Jan 12, 2006)

Pacers are in a different situation than Magic.

Otis sure did a low blow on that one.


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## WillFlight! (Jul 11, 2009)

Word is the Pacers are going ti sign Earl Watson after he clears waivers from being released by the Thunder. No way Indiana matches if they have Ford, Watson, Diener, and Tinsley under contract at the point guard spot. I fully expect Tinsley to be moved somehow this year, but that still leaves 3 points on the roster.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

WillFlight! said:


> Word is the Pacers are going ti sign Earl Watson after he clears waivers from being released by the Thunder. No way Indiana matches if they have Ford, Watson, Diener, and Tinsley under contract at the point guard spot. I fully expect Tinsley to be moved somehow this year, but that still leaves 3 points on the roster.


Nah, there's just no way they can deal Tinsley with 2yrs/$15m on his contract. They won't be able to trade him until he's an expiring next year. I don't understand why they're torturing the poor guy. Just cut him and let him sign with another team.


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## junkyarddawgg (Mar 24, 2005)

Larry Bird doesn't want to be paying Tinsley to play for another team, even if he only has to pay him a dollar. He'd rather Tinsley rot at home.


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## changv10 (Apr 25, 2005)

I think this seals it:

http://www.indystar.com/article/200...ays Pacers won t match his offer from Raptors

Welcome to TO Jarrett Jack! It will be awesome to have him in the team. : )


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## Junkyard Dog13 (Aug 9, 2003)

when is the pres conference?


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

I'm guessing Tuesday/Wednesday time, remember it isn't actually official till Monday. JJ is a stand up guy and it sound like he didn't actually want to leave Indiana, I hope he feels the same way when his contract is up with our Raptors.


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## changv10 (Apr 25, 2005)

I really respect how Jack has treated himself in the midst of this. He felt thankful and loyal towards the Pacer organization for giving him a chance to showcase his talents which was the reason for him to get this contract. 

He is not like other FA's that are upset with their teams for not giving them more money. He understands the situation, and is greatful of the outcome. 

Its nice we are getting not only good basketball quality player, but also a stand-up guy with good values.

ps - i've read that the post conference is going to be tuesday. He is going on a plane from Indiana to Toronto today.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

Picture from today, notice the cap :champagne:


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## southeasy (Jun 11, 2003)

Porn_Player said:


> Picture from today, notice the cap :champagne:


that's so sick. i'm feelin it for sure


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## Dee-Zy (Jan 12, 2006)

I remember watching him play against the raps when he was with the Blazers and thought, damn. That's a PG Toronto needs. That was at the time Jose and Ford was still in TO.

I'm glad you guys landed him. He provides amazing depth.

Now all Toronto needs is a legit NBA starting 2 and a big man back up that plays tough, has size, rebounds and plays D.


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## c_dog (Sep 15, 2002)

i think this may be the best pg rotation in franchise history. yes, better than ford-calderone because ford was always a question mark in terms of health. jack is not quite as good as ford but he's close, and he's shown durability so far in his career. great pickup.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

Now it's Jose with the durability question mark. Nothing is ever perfect in the Raptors PG land.... But I do love this rotation. 

C-dog and Porn agreeing, somebody take a picture.


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## WillFlight! (Jul 11, 2009)

Porn_Player said:


> Now it's Jose with the durability question mark. Nothing is ever perfect in the Raptors PG land.... But I do love this rotation.
> 
> C-dog and Porn agreeing, somebody take a picture.


Actually this Jose will be coming into this season at 100%. Jose has declined to play with the Spanish national team this summer and is concentrating on fixing all the little nagging injuries he has had in the past. His finger and hamstring will be better and so will Jose. He is on record saying that he played last season at 50%, I am looking forward to seeing a healthy Jose on the floor, maybe people will stop bashing his defense as he will do a better job keeping his man in front of him. Jack will be the better defender, but Jose will do a good job. 

I say there are no question marks for the pg rotation.


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## Dee-Zy (Jan 12, 2006)

c_dog said:


> i think this may be the best pg rotation in franchise history. yes, better than ford-calderone because ford was always a question mark in terms of health. jack is not quite as good as ford but he's close, and he's shown durability so far in his career. great pickup.


I believe this is a better PG rotation than Jose-Ford just because Ford's ego and style of play.

Ford is undoubtly talented. Even more than Jose but I don't think he is a PG that is as good as Jose in terms of PG play. Ford was horrible on defense always gambling the lane which would lead to an open lane which would **** up the defense rotation for nothing.

On offense, the guy was trigger happy and would disrupt the offense.

Jack is not better than Ford in terms of skills/player but is a better PG and a better fit IMO especially because he can defend and knows how to use his size to his advantage and molest smaller PGs.


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## changv10 (Apr 25, 2005)

I actually think that Jack is better than Ford. Indiana was thinking likewise and wanted to start Jack and have Ford backup. This got Ford pissed, as it is happening to him a 2nd time. 

1. Jack > Ford on defense. Jack is a bigger body and can defend both guards. If Ford gets switched on defense to a bigger player, the player gets an open jumper. 

2. Jack > Ford on penetration AND finishing.  Jack is good at finishing strong. Ford would get blocked, so he would pass it out. But teams were ready for that pass. 

3. Jack > Ford on 3pt shooting. I actually don't know the percentages ... but Ford was a liability at the 3 point line. Jack can knock down open 3's. 

4. Jack > Ford on character. Jack is the consumate team player. Ford (if not starting) was a cancer to the team. 

Having said that, Ford is faster than Jack and had a lethal turnaround jumper from the free throw line. But I still think Jack is better overall.


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## c_dog (Sep 15, 2002)

Porn_Player said:


> Now it's Jose with the durability question mark. Nothing is ever perfect in the Raptors PG land.... But I do love this rotation.
> 
> C-dog and Porn agreeing, somebody take a picture.


i would say our main differences are in our opinions of andrea bargnani(as is the case with 99% of this board). differences on scrubs like rasho, o'bryant, douby are insignificant.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

I am thrilled that the Raptors have landed Jack. I remember last year when we played Detroit Rodney Stuckey killed us with his penetration. Other teams likewise exploited our lack of lateral quickness at the PG position. With Jack on the team we at least have someone that can counter that type of players. He also has the ability to play the 2 which leads me to believe that we might see a Jack and Ukic back court some time this year. It will be interesting to see how Ukic have developed over the summer and how he performs next year with a year of experience behind him. I thought Ukic played well especially late last season and have shown signs that he can play the 2.


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## ballocks (May 15, 2003)

in defense of tj, the one thing he could do when he played was create. this team needed that then and, imo, they still need that. last year was abysmal, especially when calderon was super-passive. by the end of the year, that's all he was and, as a result, nobody else was all that effective. 

but i don't think that was the main problem. i think the worst thing about it was that it'd would put everyone to sleep (fans included!), which would cause the defense to suffer, then the rebounding, and then the team wouldn't be having any fun, and then they'd suffer mental lapses... which would lead to injuries, etc. just running the system over and over... i mean, i don't have to remind you, it was bad entertainment, to say nothing of the bad basketball. from that standpoint tj was always better- he was far more electric and could go 1v5 when the team deferred to him (for better or worse).

jack can't do that. he's just more of the same. but if another raptor can become the creator they need (turkoglu, bargnani... derozan?), it may not be a bad thing; jack would then be a better fit than tj ever was.

peace


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## Dee-Zy (Jan 12, 2006)

TJ created as much as Mike James did. Run into the trees and just pass it to anybody, then go back up at the top of the key and get the ball back.

Either that or attacking the rim 1 on 4 uncontrolled and turn the ball over.

Sure, that did create at times, but I'd rather not have that at all time.


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## c_dog (Sep 15, 2002)

ballocks said:


> in defense of tj, the one thing he could do when he played was create. this team needed that then and, imo, they still need that. last year was abysmal, especially when calderon was super-passive. by the end of the year, that's all he was and, as a result, nobody else was all that effective.
> 
> but i don't think that was the main problem. i think the worst thing about it was that it'd would put everyone to sleep (fans included!), which would cause the defense to suffer, then the rebounding, and then the team wouldn't be having any fun, and then they'd suffer mental lapses... which would lead to injuries, etc. just running the system over and over... i mean, i don't have to remind you, it was bad entertainment, to say nothing of the bad basketball. from that standpoint tj was always better- he was far more electric and could go 1v5 when the team deferred to him (for better or worse).
> 
> ...


that's true of jack 2-3 seasons ago, but he really improved his game last year. he can definitely create as well as tj ford. i've stated that he's pretty much as good as ford at everything and i did not forget his ability to create. i think you'll be pleasantly surprised next year with jack.


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