# REPORT: Spree to Raps for 4th Pick



## SWiSHer2.0 (Jun 17, 2003)

The Star-Ledger is reporting this trade as of this morning:

TO TORONTO:
-----------------
L. Sprewell
((maybe the 9th pick))

TO NEW YORK:
------------------
J. Williams
L. Murray
E. Montross 
4th Pick


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## SWiSHer2.0 (Jun 17, 2003)

Let me reply to my own post there. The Knicks really want this trade badly, so all they're waiting for is the Raps to give the go and its done.


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## SWiSHer2.0 (Jun 17, 2003)

The maybe 9th pick I wrote there will now happen if the trade goes through. The Raps would then draft Mike Sweetney.


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## Shadows (Jun 8, 2002)

To Knicks

#4
JYD
Lammond Murray
Montross (Expiring Contract)

To Raps

Spree
#9

----No way in hell does Glen pull this trade. Spree is way past his prime. I'd consider it possible if you added KT and we added MOP

Raps starting line would =

C-Kurt Thomas
PF-Antonio Davis
SF-Spree
SG-VC
PG-AW

6th Sweetney (GG's apparently really high on this guy but wont take him with the #4.)

^^Thats definetly a top 6 team in the east


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## charlz (Jun 9, 2003)

No way can you do this deal with out Kurt Thomas.
Latrell Sprewell $11,937,500 5-yr ;61.9M 2003-04 (p) 

spree wont be back after next season.
he is going to be 33

Murray is 3 years younger and 1/2 the price.



> According to a Toronto insider, the Raps would be just as eager to make such a move, for two reasons: Sprewell could be the teammate that puts a spark into Vince Carter; and the Raptors are enamored of Georgetown forward Mike Sweetney, but they feel they cannot take him from the No. 4 slot.


http://www.nj.com/knicks/ledger/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/105617585741700.xml


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## charlz (Jun 9, 2003)

WOW I really must have been sleeping in the last 1/2 of last season




> The Raptors and Knicks were involved in talks over a blockbuster deal at last February's trade deadline, a swap that would have included Antonio Davis, Morris Peterson and Sprewell. However, talks bogged down when the Knicks couldn't be persuaded to toss in Kurt Thomas.


http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Co...040&call_pageid=969907729483&col=970081562040


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## Jehuisthere (Jan 12, 2003)

dam i just dont understand why Glen cant stand pat and draft Bosh, I mean not saying Mike Sweetney or whoever we grab if we trade down wont be a good player, but we need a potential superstar, not another solid player. We got to stay pat and take a chance on Bosh.........


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## Vinsanity (May 28, 2002)

if GG does this i will kill him


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## Vinsanity (May 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Jehuisthere</b>!
> dam i just dont understand why Glen cant stand pat and draft Bosh, I mean not saying Mike Sweetney or whoever we grab if we trade down wont be a good player, but we need a potential superstar, not another solid player. We got to stay pat and take a chance on Bosh.........


thats what im sayin


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## SWiSHer2.0 (Jun 17, 2003)

omg people whats wrong with y'all. as a raps fan i love this deal!


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## ltrain99 (Apr 27, 2003)

I dont think id ever want spree, that much, but if they get sweetney, they do coem out well. They aren't giving up very much besides the 4, I tihnk it's good for both teams.


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## charlz (Jun 9, 2003)

Glen is trying to built a mentally tough Gritty team - It is all about vince guys.

Glen wants to surround him with players and coaches that have a no-nonsense attitude. And will tell him to get out there and play - stop crying on the ground pounding the floor in agoney for 10 min - like no one else has ever rolled an ankle.

don't get me wrong I love Vince - but he needs to be tough to be top 5 in the league.


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

This deal is pretty good for the raps, i mean we're only trading down 5 spots.I still think they should add someone else though, maybe if we through in mo pete theyd give us Kurt Thomas, like shadows said.
I mean, if Lampe slips, though, we have to take him.
PG-A.Williams/R.Alston
SG-V.Carter/C.Jefferies
SF-L.Sprewell/C.Jefferies
PF-A.Davis/M.Lampe
C-K.Thomas/M.Bradley


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## jj9487 (Jun 2, 2003)

why would the knicks draft ford over bosh?

they have a young pg in frank will and bosh is going to be the next KG


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## SWiSHer2.0 (Jun 17, 2003)

This deal is hot, and the Raps should grab it and do it! 

However Raps fans, lets not forget, we are getting deals thrown at us from Miami and Memphis who also want to move up.

But so far I love this deal with NY! If Memphis / Miami or any other NBA team has nothing better for us then Glen should really do this move.

Spree will push Vince in practice just like Tmac did when he was in TO. The new coach loves Spree. And we will have the 1-2 punch with Vice and Spree, and then down low AD. Do it GG!


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## nyksju (Feb 11, 2003)

from the knicks point of view, no way wee'd want to add in thomas.
i don't know whythe article says the Knicks would pick Ford I'd much rather they pick Bosh if they get the 4th pick


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## ltrain99 (Apr 27, 2003)

I say no way they throw in thomas for mo pete, yeah they would need a 3 but, thomas is so much better than him, it shouldn't even come up. I think theyd be better off puttign bosh at the 3. The line up Thomas Harrinmgton Bosh Houston Eisley (or whoever they want 2 be pg) is much more appealing than a bad C, maybe Doleac, Bosh Peterson Houston and Eisley.


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## Shadows (Jun 8, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>nyksju</b>!
> from the knicks point of view, no way wee'd want to add in thomas.
> i don't know whythe article says the Knicks would pick Ford I'd much rather they pick Bosh if they get the 4th pick


From the Raptors point theres no way we consider this deal over the Sheed/Swift/Raheim deals unless KT is involved. The deal would look like

To Knicks

#4 Chris Bosh
JYD
Moris Peterson
Lammond Murray
Eric Montross

To Toronto

Latrell Sprewell
Kurt Thomas
#9

I'd still take the Sheed/Swift rumor over this one.


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## NeoSamurai (Jan 16, 2003)

The deal to me seems alright...We become a more grittier team and with Spree we get a guy who will play very hard defense every night...As one poster has said before, I too think that GG wants this team to become grittier and more mentally tough, sorta of like how they were when they took Philly to Game 7 a couple years back...

Even though I'd like the Raps to draft Bosh and try to build for a possible championship contender in 3 years, seems that GG wants to win now and I wouldnt really mind this at all if we get Spree, Thomas and the 9th pick...


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## icehawk (May 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Shadows</b>!
> To Knicks
> 
> #4 Chris Bosh
> ...


I love that deal. Finally gives us a decent frontcourt with KT, AD, and Bradley. Our backcourt depth would hurt a bit, but with the 9th we could draft someone to help out Spree and Vince. Hopefully Wade if he's available. A starting line-up of Davis, Thomas, Carter, Sprewell, and Alvin would be really nice. Maybe the best line-up we've ever had.

HOWEVER,
1. The salaries don't match up.
2. NYK will not give up Thomas only to recieve a SF/PF in JYD and two swingmen.


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

I'd really just want to keep the 4th pick , unless a waay better deal comes our way.
Like 4, AD for 5, Grant.. thats my kind of deal :yes:


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## KeonBackinTO (May 26, 2003)

> Like 4, AD for 5, Grant.. thats my kind of deal


Any deal that gets rid of AD would be a good one.


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## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

I wouldn't be totally opposed to the deal if NY threw in Kurt Thomas, like everyone else has said.


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## Dirtybirds81 (Sep 1, 2002)

Your Raps would look good next year. Sweetney most likely would be available at #9. He is one of a few players in this year's draft that can come in and contribute right away. Yes he is 6'8" but he plays much bigger and with a lot of heart. Your team intensity will definitely pick up with Spree and Sweetney. Spree is an awesome defender, and good defense is contaigous on a basketball court. Defense does lead to fats breaks(Nets), and that will lead to a lot of new VC posters. That team will be a 6-8 seed in the East next year.

As for the Knicks, if they get the 4th pick why would they take Ford? They have about 9 PG's on their team. Take Bosh fools.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

No way... I've made up my mind... what you guys want to do it draft Lampe. Everything I've read about him suggests he's going to be very good. Pau Gasol with another 20 lbs of beef. Take him and don't look back!


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## SWiSHer2.0 (Jun 17, 2003)

IF there are no other better deals from Miami or Memphis or Dallas GG should pull the trigger and let the Spre-Vince show to start.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

*good trade but*

i agree with some of you...i think its a very fair trade and Toronto is making the smarter move....What in the world is NY thinking drafting a 5'10" point guard when they have Frank Williams and Vujanic....I think the Knicks are bluffing and want Bosh


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>SWiSHer2.0</b>!
> The Star-Ledger is reporting this trade as of this morning:
> 
> TO TORONTO:
> ...


i think we'd need some future first rounders. spree provides some cap relief but he's an overpaid player that we might not be able to keep. with pavel out of the draft i'm not nearly as intrigued by the 9th pick (not because i thought pavel would be there but because of the players his selection makes available. 

a future first rounder might be nice but im not so sure we'll see it for a while if it's lottery protected...


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

i'm not very intrigued by sweetney; he's not the super-prospect i think this team needs to develop for the future but we should be fairly formidable for next season.


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## Answerivdmxlow (May 27, 2003)

That deal is horrible. Why would you trade for a player who is going to be on the decline of their career and will give the raptors 4 years at best, who also has a large salary, no not Antonio Davis but latrell Sprewell. I say take your chances on the player who would be a #1 pick in the draft if he stayed in college another year(Bosh).


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## tinygiant (Sep 10, 2002)

I'm not quite sure how VC and Spree work together. They are very similar players, much more similar than Sprewell and Houston, and NY has always had issues with that.
The Raps have always prefered Vince as a 2 not a 3. And Sprewell sometimes had problems because he has had to play the SF in NY. Which one of them plays it here?
Even though it might be exciting to have a couple of guys like that on one team, I think it works better to have complementary players, not two of the same sort of player.


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## -inVINCEible- (Jul 22, 2002)

i think we should draft Kaman with the 9th pick if we do this trade

C - Kaman/ N'Diaye/ McCoy
PF - Davis/ Bradley/ Baston
SF - Sprewell/ Peterson
SG - Carter/ Jeffries
PG - Williams/ Alston

bradley could start if necessary


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

Very true about the conflict in NY about Sprewell playing SF, but I know Toronto will be offered a better deal than this one, and lets hope Glen pulls the trigger, on the best trade for this team possible.


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## SWiSHer2.0 (Jun 17, 2003)

Here is another article about this trade between the Raps and Knicks:

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/story/94517p-85698c.html


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## Ballishere (May 24, 2003)

Does Davis, Lamond murray and JYD match Spee, Thomas, and Esiley? Salarywise?


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## RaptorDynasty (May 30, 2003)

RealGM says so. Not that it will happen just like this, but in response to your question, the pay does line up.

Toronto trades: Lamond Murray ( ppg, rpg, apg in minutes) 
PF Jerome Williams (9.7 ppg, 9.2 rpg, 1.3 apg in 33.0 minutes) 
PF Antonio Davis (13.9 ppg, 8.3 rpg, 2.5 apg in 35.7 minutes) 
Toronto receives: C Kurt Thomas (14.0 ppg, 7.9 rpg, 2.0 apg in 31.8 minutes) 
SF Latrell Sprewell (16.4 ppg, 3.9 rpg, 4.5 apg in 38.6 minutes) 
PG Howard Eisley (9.1 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 5.4 apg in 27.3 minutes) 
Change in team outlook: +15.9 ppg, -3.4 rpg, and +8.1 apg. 

New York trades: C Kurt Thomas (14.0 ppg, 7.9 rpg, 2.0 apg in 31.8 minutes) 
SF Latrell Sprewell (16.4 ppg, 3.9 rpg, 4.5 apg in 38.6 minutes) 
PG Howard Eisley (9.1 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 5.4 apg in 27.3 minutes) 
New York receives: Lamond Murray ( ppg, rpg, apg in games) 
PF Jerome Williams (9.7 ppg, 9.2 rpg, 1.3 apg in 71 games) 
PF Antonio Davis (13.9 ppg, 8.3 rpg, 2.5 apg in 53 games) 
Change in team outlook: -15.9 ppg, +3.4 rpg, and -8.1 apg. 

TRADE ACCEPTED

Due to Toronto and New York being over the cap, the 15% trade rule is invoked. Toronto and New York had to be no more than 115% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

Kurt Thomas is good. Much better than MoPete. That's why the Knicks would be opposed to adding those two players to the deal.

However, I wouldn't do any deal with the Knicks unless AD is involved. If we throw in AD then them throwing in Thomas wouldn't be out of the question at all. I don't remember the exact proposal but the trade Bballfan put out there in another thread looked pretty good to me.


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## BBallFan (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>tinygiant</b>!
> I'm not quite sure how VC and Spree work together. They are very similar players, much more similar than Sprewell and Houston, and NY has always had issues with that.
> The Raps have always prefered Vince as a 2 not a 3. And Sprewell sometimes had problems because he has had to play the SF in NY. Which one of them plays it here?
> Even though it might be exciting to have a couple of guys like that on one team, I think it works better to have complementary players, not two of the same sort of player.


I seemingly have to defend Spreewell in every thread. You guys certainly aren't giving him the credit he deserves.

Everyone understands how terrible the Knicks roster is right? They're 1-7 without Spreewell, and 36-38 with him. If anyone has the time to do an extensive analysis of the Knicks, or has access to one online... I'd be willing to bet the +/- with Spree on the floor vs. when he's not is staggering.

If you want to argue that he's going to decline going into next season, fine. But as of last year, he was still a very good all around player.

And what problem is there with Spree at SF besides criticism in the papers for having an undersized 3, and the very occasional matchup problems against the big-3s? Spree would guard anyone his coach puts him on.


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## SWiSHer2.0 (Jun 17, 2003)

This is the deal that I would really love to see the Raptors make:

TO TORONTO RAPTORS:
-----------------------------
Latrell Sprewell
Kurt Thomas
Howard Eisley
#9th draft pick

TO NEW YORK KNICKS:
-----------------------------
Antonio Davis
Jerome Williams
Morris Peterson
Lamond Murray
#4th draft pick

This trade works out.

Then with the 9th pick we pick a centre, NOT Sweetney.

So, our lineup for next year would look like this:

PG: Alvin Williams
SG: Vince Carter
SF: Latrell Sprewell
PF: Kurt Thomas
CC: ((centre we draft with 9th pick))


Tell me what you think guys.


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## SWiSHer2.0 (Jun 17, 2003)

I know that we give up alot, then we could have NY add in a 2nd round pick this year, or a first rounder next year.


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## icehawk (May 30, 2003)

I agree with BBallFan that Sprewell is an under-rated player, but I still would be hesitant to pull the trigger on the 'rumoured' trade.

While Sprewell would be Raptors' 2nd option (he'll probably put up between 15-17 ppg for us) and would probably be our best defender, I'd rather keep the 4th overall pick.

This is our chance to finally get another young, big name player which seems to be on everybody else's roster except ours. I just have a feeling that a year or two down the road when Bosh is putting up 15 and 8 as a 21-year-old, and Sprewell has become 35-years-old and another inconvience (a la Antonio Davis) or decides to test the free-agent waters, we'll be kicking ourselves.

The ninth overall pick is somewhat of a cushioning, but there's a talent drop-off. The first is obvious; it's the Big Three. Then there's Bosh, Lampe, Wade, and Ford. Then there's the third wave of players who aren't even close to the last guys. I'm talking about Sweetney, Kaman, Hayes, Hinrich, etc.; they might all develop into good role-players in the league (other than the odd steal or bust), but won't be a highly-valued asset to our team.

Right now, I want to keep the 4th. Maybe trade down to Miami or the Clippers if we can get a good deal.


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## SWiSHer2.0 (Jun 17, 2003)

Some very good points there on the previous post, but its just too damn tempting to finally see Vince have another sidekick. Remember the Tmac days? Well here comes Spree.


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## tinygiant (Sep 10, 2002)

BBallFan, there was no need to, as you said, "defend Sprewell" against my post. I have never said that he isn't a great player. I've always enjoyed the way he plays the game. I just think that he and Vince are not complementary players.


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## BBallFan (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>tinygiant</b>!
> BBallFan, there was no need to, as you said, "defend Sprewell" against my post. I have never said that he isn't a great player. I've always enjoyed the way he plays the game. I just think that he and Vince are not complementary players.


How so? Spreewell doesn't demand a lot of shots, and is the type of player that will adjust to the type of offense he is. He'll have no problem being 2nd-fiddle to Vince offensively, is capable of carrying a larger scoring load if VC gets injured again, and he'll be willing to guard the harder defensive matchup, which should let Carter focus more on scoring.

The Raptors would be a much better team with Spreewell then without him... but obviously this trade is contingent with the Raptors not viewing a drop from #4 to #9 as that bad, and that Sweetney, longterm, is going to be as good as Bosh.


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## SWiSHer2.0 (Jun 17, 2003)

I quite disagree in fact. I think that Spree would enjoy playing with Vince, and vice versa. They will both push each other in practice to the max, which will make them both better players. Vince will get some load off his sholders when Spree helps him with the scoring, and Spree (with no need to score so much) can contentrate more on defence. Thats my opinion. Gimme ur feedback.


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## SWiSHer2.0 (Jun 17, 2003)

I heard alot of your opinions as to whether you'd like to see this trade go down or not, but now I'd like to ask you something different. Do you think the Raptors and GG will actually go down with this deal?


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## Dathomieyouhate (Jun 21, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>SWiSHer2.0</b>!
> I heard alot of your opinions as to whether you'd like to see this trade go down or not, but now I'd like to ask you something different. Do you think the Raptors and GG will actually go down with this deal?


most likely not.. but knowing gg you never know..


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## EBP2K2 (Jun 23, 2003)

*hm*

With KO in town, Spree deal sounds much more feasible. However, I can't see why Toronto will regress from the deal proposed back in Feb. and consummate this trade without KT.

it would be great for Toronto if picks werent involved, and with knicks being knicks with Layden, who knows, although higly unlikely.


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