# My new #1



## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

I hate saying it .... but Duke. They return so much talent and add the best freshman in Deng.

I had them as at #3 in my last poll, but the more I hear about Luol Deng, the more I buy into Duke as the best team in the country

And that makes me 
:upset:

Revised Top 10

1. Duke
2.  UConn
3. Arizona
4. Florida
5. Missouri
6. Syracuse
7. Michigan St
8. St. Joseph's
9. Kentucky
10. Cincinnati


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## Natty Dreadlockz (Jul 21, 2003)

> I had them as at #3 in my last poll, but the more I hear about Luol Deng, the more I buy into Duke as the best team in the country


Your titled to your opinion... But neither UCONN nor Mizzou lost anyone and added jus as much if not more talent than Duke... You could add Mich St to that list also... I'd take all three over Duke... But that's jus my opinion... Peace


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## ltrain99 (Apr 27, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Eagle</b>!
> 
> Your titled to your opinion... But neither UCONN nor Mizzou lost anyone and added jus as much if not more talent than Duke... You could add Mich St to that list also... I'd take all three over Duke... But that's jus my opinion... Peace


I agree completely. Adding Luol was huge and that's what makes them a probable top 5, but they just don't have quite enough star power 2 beat the either elite teams in the country.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Eagle</b>!
> 
> Your titled to your opinion... But neither UCONN nor Mizzou lost anyone and added jus as much if not more talent than Duke... You could add Mich St to that list also... I'd take all three over Duke... But that's jus my opinion... Peace


Remind me again where Duke was seated?

And Mizzouri, Michigan St, Uconn?

That's a 3 seed, compared to a 6,6, and 7 seed.


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## Natty Dreadlockz (Jul 21, 2003)

I'm talkin bout right now... Mizzou is a stronger team... IMO plays in a stronger conference also... Were jus wastin time argue'n over it though... Your entitled to your opinion... I'll start debate'n when the season begins... Peace


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

I think the Big 12 is a bit down this year after its prominence in the past two years. They have not had as much incoming talent the past two years as the Big East or the ACC.


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## Natty Dreadlockz (Jul 21, 2003)

Kansas..Texas..Texas Tech..Texas A&M..Oklahoma..Colorado..Mizzou and Oklahoma St are all competitive teams... The Big 12 mighta lost a couple big names but they've been replaced by ready to contribute talent... Peace


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

They still could very well be the best, Eagle.

Last year they were just the clear cut #1 in the country, without any dispute.

Good point, they have went from more of a top-heavy too a deeper conference this year.


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## cheezdoodle (May 25, 2003)

I like Florida alot at #4. Good call.


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## kansasalumn (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>JuniorNoboa</b>!
> I think the Big 12 is a bit down this year after its prominence in the past two years. They have not had as much incoming talent the past two years as the Big East or the ACC.


The lost Hollis, Collison, Hinrich are just ezamples. If any news about the Big 12 I htink it is improved. Not the talent, but the teams. Really the only team I htink will have a down year would be Baylor, but other than that every team improved or remain just a competitive as ever.


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## CP26 (May 8, 2003)

Watch out for MD, with their powerful freshman (DJ Strawberry)


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## Natty Dreadlockz (Jul 21, 2003)

Strawberry's(DJ) will be in season on the PINE... Peace


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## DaFuture (Nov 5, 2002)

I dont know why everyone believes all the hype Duke fans give their players. Some of them still probably think Shav will jump to the NBA. I doubt he will make it let alone jump early. Luol is good no doubt but he had a foot injury for most of last year, so few people actually have seenhim play in live game situations. And dont tell me about practice reports, the 2002 Maryland Championship team looked like crap in preseason practices.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

Last year they were a deserving 3 seed, with several prominent underclassmen and basically lost Jones, who would be replaced by Deng. Given they are a year older, it is reasonable to expect improvement.


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## ltrain99 (Apr 27, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>JuniorNoboa</b>!
> Last year they were a deserving 3 seed, with several prominent underclassmen and basically lost Jones, who would be replaced by Deng. Given they are a year older, it is reasonable to expect improvement.


I just don't see how that makes them better than a team that was 5 seed in Uconn, that lost very little, has 1 of the top recruiting classes in the nation, and also has young improving players returning. They are jsut 1 example of teams such as MSU and MU, that improved a great deal, that should be better than Duke, who was slightly ahead of them, and improved only a slight amount.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

My Top Ten

1. Connecticut
2. Michigan State
3. Duke
4. Missouri
5. Syracuse
6. Kansas
7. Gonzaga
8. Arizona
9. UNC
10. Saint Joseph's


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

I am going to pick apart every line of your post.



> Originally posted by <b>ltrain99</b>!
> I just don't see how that makes them better than a team that was 5 seed in Uconn


Just my opinion, but a 3 seed is better then a 5 seed



> that lost very little


Neither did Duke. 



> has 1 of the top recruiting classes in the nation


When you are at the national elite typically only impact freshmen can mae a difference. UConn has one in Villeneuva, Duke has one in Deng. General consensus is that Deng is better. Deng is more of an all around player too that should be a better fit on a deep team, and has no immediate NBA inspirations. Charlie wants to go the NBA right away and expect some "I want to get my shots" problems in the locker room, as UConn might be too deep. (Remember Tim Thomas at Villanova)



> , and also has young improving players returning.


I suppose only the young players in UConn improve :rolleyes

If your going to credit UConn youngsters for improving, why not give credit to Duke's freshmen from last year - Reddick, Dockery, Williams, Randolph. 



> They are jsut 1 example of teams such as MSU and MU, that improved a great deal,


Once again Duke should have improved just as much. MSU has one impact newcomer in Brown, Missouri does have Kleiza and Conley. 




> that should be better than Duke, who was slightly ahead of them, and improved only a slight amount.


Umm. Duke was significantly better in 2003then all of UConn, Missouri, and Michigan St. Don't only look at the tournament but the performance over the entire season.

Only improved a "slight amount". Nope, theoretically they should have improved just as much as your boys at UConn, as they have as many young returnees.

Of course once the season plays itself out we can not be sure who will improve more then expected. But to say in the preseason that UConn has improved alot while Duke has not is faulty indeed.

Unless you have been scouting and attending summer practices of all these programs this summer. :laugh:


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

People are expecting a Carmelo Anthony-type season from Luol Deng because both players were #2 in their class, and both are SF's. These are people that have never seen Deng play a minute of basketball. Let's wait until he plays a game before we start comparing him to the most successful freshman in modern college basketball history. 

The reality of the situation is that Duke lost their leading scorer and top defender in Dahntay Jones. 

Luol Deng replaces him, but Duke fans that are trying to convince people that Deng is going to be better than Jones from day one aren't being realistic. It could happen, but does it make sense to expect it? 

Villanueva may not be as highly regarded, but he's still one of the top 3 or 4 immediate impact freshman in the country. Where Deng is likely to replace Jones at best, Villanueva fills a hole from last year's team. If there was a weakness in UConn's lineup, it was at PF.

Both teams have numerous talented underclassmen that should be improved in 2003-2004. (UConn has Anderson, Brown, Armstrong, White - Duke has Randolph, Dockery, and Thompson). I don't see either team gaining an advantage there. 

For me, the bottom line is that Ben Gordon and Emeka Okafor are both better than any indiviual player that Duke can put on the floor. Jim Calhoun is stocked with roleplayers that can complement his stars just as well as anybody else. 

UConn is the clear-cut #1 heading into the 2003-2004 season.


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## ltrain99 (Apr 27, 2003)

[No message]


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## ltrain99 (Apr 27, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>JuniorNoboa</b>!
> I am going to pick apart every line of your post.
> 
> 
> ...


:laugh: All I really cans ay is that you;d have to be an absolute moron to think a tema that lost 1 of the top players in the nation lost very little. All I was basically saying is that if the very unlikely happens and Deng as a freshman palys as well as jones as a senior, and improvement form all their young guys, doesnot make them a much better team period. Unless you expec t deng to get 30 12 and 8 or something impossible liek that, I don't get how he can make an impact that makes them much better than a team led by jones. I said your guys woudl improve, I jsut siad the difference is you lost Jones and we lsot almsot nothing, so obviously Uconn improved a good deal, more, it's jsut common sense.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

First off, just to show I have no bias:

1. I hate Duke with a passion.
2. I like UConn, as they are a Big East Team.
3. I always feel Duke is vastly overrated - heck last year they were preseason top 5, totally undeservedly. I think this year they are for the first time ever being underrated.


UConn is definetely a glamour team with alot of showcase talent. But I just can't bring myself to say that a team that was 23-10 last year, including a 20 point loss versus Virginia Tech, is a CLEAR CUT #1. They might be #1, but Duke and others are not far away.

Duke and UConn are neck and neck IMO. I am saying Duke because I knew it will generate good discussion. If you can only respond to arguements by calling people morons it is sad.

Ltrain, can you make an arguement without calling someone a moron? Perhaps focusing the fact that you beleive I was underrating the value of Jones (as you validly suggested) as an opening point would have added credibility to your post. But please do not respond to counterpoints by calling people absolute morons. Heck, I might be wrong, I may well be overlooking Dahntay, but then just say that.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

If UConn were to lose Gordon for any stretch of games this year, they would be in trouble. He is their most important player on the team. They have depth for Okafor, but Gordon is the one guy they can't afford to lose. 

The championship will be won on his shoulders if they do win it.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

> People are expecting a Carmelo Anthony-type season from Luol Deng because both players were #2 in their class, and both are SF's. These are people that have never seen Deng play a minute of basketball. Let's wait until he plays a game before we start comparing him to the most successful freshman in modern college basketball history.


I believe you are referring to the Carmelo Anthony Syndrome, a phrase I coined here a few months ago. As an SU fan, I take great exception to people saying that there freshman will have a Carmelo like impact, or will be the 2004 version of Carmelo and carry his team to the title. It lacks appreciation to the sensational season that Carmelo had - to say that it will be duplicated is actually insulting.

That being said, I think Deng will be an impact freshman. He can be the piece that takes Duke to the title, but he will not be nearly as dominant as Melo, and will not carry Duke there.

True I have never seen Deng play. I have my sources that I trust, such as Justin Young, who I have had good conversations in past years on other fan boards. He knows his stuff, even though he is a Duke fan. 



> Villanueva may not be as highly regarded, but he's still one of the top 3 or 4 immediate impact freshman in the country. Where Deng is likely to replace Jones at best, Villanueva fills a hole from last year's team. If there was a weakness in UConn's lineup, it was at PF.


A few thoughts come to my mind:
1. Is Villaneuva more of a 3 then a 4? I know he has the requisite size but does he take it inside.

2. Does it matter? With Emeka inside, do they need two inside forces.

3. Villaneuva wants to go to the NBA ASAP, IMO. I think he will struggle to get 10 a game with UConn, just due to a lack of looks. UConn has so much offensive talent that they will be fighting over the ball - that is not necessarily a good thing. Let's not forget Denham Brown - what a talent he is, he might be the best of the bunch at the next level. (A little Toronto bias there)


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>JuniorNoboa</b>!
> First off, just to show I have no bias:
> 
> 1. I hate Duke with a passion.
> ...


Aren't you a Syracuse fan? 

That might explain a bit...


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>JuniorNoboa</b>!
> 2. Does it matter? With Emeka inside, do they need two inside forces.


At least defensively, Okafor/Villanueva are going to be an absolutely disgusting shotblocking combo. 

I think it's ridiculous to say that UConn doesn't need two inside forces. Since Duke already had Daniel Ewing, did they really need JJ Reddick? 

Villanueva is a perimeter oriented 3/4, and will use his speed to get around people. This is a very different look compared to what Emeka brings...



> 3. Villaneuva wants to go to the NBA ASAP, IMO. I think he will struggle to get 10 a game with UConn, just due to a lack of looks. UConn has so much offensive talent that they will be fighting over the ball - that is not necessarily a good thing.


Again, you can say the same thing about Duke this season. Reddick is the returning leading scorer, Williams is getting press as the top big man in the conference (not true, btw), Deng is the top freshman in the country, Ewing and Randolph both will demand the ball a certain amount this season...


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

> I think it's ridiculous to say that UConn doesn't need two inside forces.


I raised a question, did not state it as fact.

My point is that even if Villaneuva is a little soft as a "4" (which doesn't make him a bad defender because of his enormous talent) this softness is more then compensated by the beast that is Okafor.

There are many good shot blockers that are still "soft". 




> Again, you can say the same thing about Duke this season. Reddick is the returning leading scorer, Williams is getting press as the top big man in the conference (not true, btw), Deng is the top freshman in the country, Ewing and Randolph both will demand the ball a certain amount this season..


Good point, Duke can be vulnerable to the same thing, any loaded college team with new freshman can. But there is definetely a potentail UConn vulnerability - that's all I was stating. From what I understand Villaneuva is much more antsy to go to the NBA then Deng. (Now that is hardly a fact) Remember the last two big men who came to the Big East for one year - Tim Thomas and Eddie Griffin - both strayed away from inside and wanted to show off their perimeter game a liitle much, which cause unhappy dressing rooms.


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## Priest (Jun 24, 2003)

i want to come back to this thread in march


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

Guess I was wrong, and I am damn happy about it.

:cheers:


The talent is still there to be a top level team, but is the coaching?


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Too bad soph. Center Michael Thompson is officially transferring. 

:wave: Bye Mike, we hardly knew ya, because you hardly played.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

When was that decision made? And where?


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