# Demarcus Cousins trade watch



## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

So Cousins continues to be a crazy person in Sacramento and Boston's being mentioned as one of the most interested teams out there. Normally I hate chasing headcases, but I think that with Doc, Pierce, KG, and Rondo, this is actually the right locker room to turn his career around. Some mixture of Bradley, Sullinger, Melo, Jeff Green, and draft picks might be an attractive package for a Sacramento squad that needs an injection of character guys while still getting young guys who can contribute. Thoughts?


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## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

This would be an unbelievable get for Boston if Ainge can somehow pull this off. KG will straighten out his career, and he will be the perfect big man for Rondo to carry the franchise torch with after Pierce and Garnett are long gone. Boston needs him, but he needs them even more. Match made in heaven.


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

Bogg said:


> I think that with Doc, Pierce, KG, and *Rondo*, this is actually the right locker room to turn his career around.


:gay:



> Some mixture of Bradley, Sullinger, Melo, Jeff Green, and draft picks might be an attractive package for a Sacramento squad that needs an injection of character guys while still getting young guys who can contribute. Thoughts?


Bradley or Sullinger is too much to give up for a known headcase who plays no defense and has an awful FG%, especially for a big man who plays in the post.

The salaries are hard to match for these teams without blowing it up into a much bigger trade, likely involving Green going there and a couple of their contracts headed our way (like Garcia and Hayes), so a third team would probably be needed. Regardless the most I'd give up for Cousins alone is Melo, a late draft pick, and filler like Wilcox or something.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

Cousins' FG% is a function of him shooting too many shots away from the blocks. He takes 5-6 shots per game in the 10-18 foot range and if he's shooting 25% on those I'd be shocked


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## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

Floods said:


> :gay:


You don't think that a steady stream of Rondo spoon-feeding him easy dunks and layups might defuse some of the conflicts he's had over touches in Sacramento?



Floods said:


> The salaries are hard to match for these teams without blowing it up into a much bigger trade, likely involving Green going there and a couple of their contracts headed our way (like Garcia and Hayes), so a third team would probably be needed. Regardless the most I'd give up for Cousins alone is Melo, a late draft pick, and filler like Wilcox or something.


The salaries aren't particularly hard to match up. Cousins makes a little under $4 mil, so two of Sullinger, Bradley, or Melo plus a minimum filler deal (either Joseph or Varnado) works.


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

Bogg said:


> You don't think that a steady stream of Rondo spoon-feeding him easy dunks and layups might defuse some of the conflicts he's had over touches in Sacramento?


You said locker room. Rondo isn't exactly a model locker room presence.



> The salaries aren't particularly hard to match up. Cousins makes a little under $4 mil, so two of Sullinger, Bradley, or Melo plus a minimum filler deal (either Joseph or Varnado) works.


And Sullinger or Bradley is too much to give up, for reasons I already mentioned.


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

The Celtics as currently constituted are going nowhere in a big damn hurry. They are exactly the type of team which can make an actual rationale for a Cousins trade. If the worst happens you'll just have a big sullen brat on a max contract.


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## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

Floods said:


> You said locker room. Rondo isn't exactly a model locker room presence.


Rondo's actually a pretty good team guy, he just isn't too interested in being popular with stars on other teams. It came out that Ray was having problems with more than just Rondo in the locker room. 




Floods said:


> And Sullinger or Bradley is too much to give up, for reasons I already mentioned.



No, they aren't. Sullinger's a nice piece, but he's a career role-player, and Bradley's replaceable on this team (it's why they went out and added Barbosa). The team's trying to win now, and a mentally stable Cousins does more for the C's in the playoffs this year than either of those two guys.


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

Bogg said:


> Rondo's actually a pretty good team guy, he just isn't too interested in being popular with stars on other teams.


The numerous reports of Rondo being a bitch disagree.



> No, they aren't. Sullinger's a nice piece, but he's a career role-player, and Bradley's replaceable on this team (it's why they went out and added Barbosa). The team's trying to win now, and a mentally stable Cousins does more for the C's in the playoffs this year than either of those two guys.


Sullinger's rebounding and Bradley's defense can help this team now and for years to come. Gambling one or both of them on someone who plays no defense, has awful shot selection, shoots an abysmal percentage, has spent his career thus far learning bad habits, and may well turn out to be too much of a nut even for Doc, KG, and Pierce to set straight, isn't a good idea, especially when you don't _have_ to do it. If teams were lining up for Cousins, he'd already be long gone from Sacramento. But they're not, because nobody wants him. I'd imagine the most important thing for the Kings is getting him out of town, because this era has been an abject failure for them and then some, and they'd rather just start over while keeping costs minimal. The Kings aren't in a position to dictate their price for him. Lowball them with Melo, a throwaway pick, and Wilcox/Collins-caliber filler, and tell them take it or leave it. If they pass and Cousins gets away, oh well, there will be other soft big men in the future.


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## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

If Cousins does wind up landing on the Celtics, he will prove you wrong Floods... and it won't take very long.


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## Ron (May 8, 2002)

I personally saw the Celtics get hammered at Golden State (as I knew they would, after the Clipper debacle), but thought they would fare better in Sacto.

This team is going nowhere, it has to do something to shake up its lineup. Sacto keeps saying its keeping Cousins, but I think a good package would loosen things up a bit.


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

Not too late to clean house, Danny.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

I think a housecleaning is 3-5 weeks into the future. Their re-signed free agents can't be traded until January 15th anyway, so all deals will be on hold until then.


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## Mattsanity (Jun 8, 2003)

I'm glad Ainge is making up for that epic Perkins trade.


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## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

Floods said:


> The numerous reports of Rondo being a bitch disagree.



Except he has a good relationship with Doc, and a few teammates have come out this past year basically saying Rondo's stepped up and become team leader, as well as saying that Ray was having problems with a few people in the locker room (it's why you heard Pierce say how important it was to retain KG last year, but wasn't as strong on Ray). I mean, if you want to pretend it's still 2010 and the vets are mad about Rondo wanting to be treated as an all-star, that's cool, but it isn't what's happening anymore. 




Floods said:


> Sullinger's rebounding and Bradley's defense can help this team now and for years to come. Gambling one or both of them on someone who plays no defense, has awful shot selection, shoots an abysmal percentage, has spent his career thus far learning bad habits, and may well turn out to be too much of a nut even for Doc, KG, and Pierce to set straight, isn't a good idea, especially when you don't _have_ to do it.


Obviously everything depends on Cousins being able to turn things around in Boston, it's why he's available and essentially the whole point of a potential trade. I'm also not going to turn this into me saying that Bradley and Sullinger don't have value, because they're both nice supporting players. However, the facts are that Bradley's a defensive role-player with a history of getting banged up and having to miss time, and Sullinger's a PF-C who's under 6'8" with a bad back. Neither one's a guy you can build a team around, and neither are going to take over a playoff series. This is a veteran, win-now squad that's under .500 with no chance of beating Miami as constructed. Cousins, if his head is screwed on straight, is one of the only guys who's both available at a discount and able to give Boston a punchers' chance this spring.


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

I'm not honestly convinced that Cousins is really going to be a good player at this point, but it's obvious that the Celtics are not going to succeed with their current roster. Bradley'll make them a bit better, but that doesn't change much. A Cousins trade is a pretty good gamble, but it's not like you have much to lose in the grand scheme. It's about the only move available which doesn't involve trading away your entire core.


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## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

Diable said:


> I'm not honestly convinced that Cousins is really going to be a good player at this point, but it's obvious that the Celtics are not going to succeed with their current roster. Bradley'll make them a bit better, but that doesn't change much. A Cousins trade is a pretty good gamble, but it's not like you have much to lose in the grand scheme. It's about the only move available which doesn't involve trading away your entire core.


I think the obvious comparison is Zach Randolph, right down to being shipped out of town on a discount, but that basically sums up how I feel about it. Regardless of how it works out, preserving the status quo isn't going to end up accomplishing anything and there's no other trade out there with as much upside.


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## doctordrizzay (May 10, 2011)

Lol Rondo and Cousins. They arnt going to work.


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

Bogg said:


> Except he has a good relationship with Doc, and a few teammates have come out this past year basically saying Rondo's stepped up and become team leader, as well as saying that Ray was having problems with a few people in the locker room (it's why you heard Pierce say how important it was to retain KG last year, but wasn't as strong on Ray). I mean, if you want to pretend it's still 2010 and the vets are mad about Rondo wanting to be treated as an all-star, that's cool, but it isn't what's happening anymore.


2010? Try last season for Rondo drama in the locker room. He needs more than three months of keeping his head screwed on tight for me to be convinced. 



> Obviously everything depends on Cousins being able to turn things around in Boston, it's why he's available and essentially the whole point of a potential trade. I'm also not going to turn this into me saying that Bradley and Sullinger don't have value, because they're both nice supporting players. However, the facts are that Bradley's a defensive role-player with a history of getting banged up and having to miss time, and Sullinger's a PF-C who's under 6'8" with a bad back. Neither one's a guy you can build a team around, and neither are going to take over a playoff series. This is a veteran, win-now squad that's under .500 with no chance of beating Miami as constructed. Cousins, if his head is screwed on straight, is one of the only guys who's both available at a discount and able to give Boston a punchers' chance this spring.


Why does it matter if they aren't franchise players? Even if the behavioral problems straighten out, Cousins has a ways to go before he could be considered a decent building block, considering he doesn't play any defense and has gawdawful shot selection, and 3 years in Sacramento all but cemented those bad habits. I'd much rather have the two guys who know how to play.

And yeah, Sullinger and Bradley could get injured, while Cousins _very well_ could continue to be a dumbshit and amount to a waste of assets. I'd bet money on the latter.

This team isn't winning with Cousins, unless he turns into 2000 Shaq overnight.


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## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

Floods said:


> 2010? Try last season for Rondo drama in the locker room. He needs more than three months of keeping his head screwed on tight for me to be convinced.



The problems were with Ray, and as other guys who were in the locker room have said, Ray was having problems with more than just Rondo. Beyond Ray, he got along very well with the majority of the team. 





Floods said:


> Why does it matter if they aren't franchise players? Even if the behavioral problems straighten out, Cousins has a ways to go before he could be considered a decent building block, considering he doesn't play any defense and has gawdawful shot selection, and 3 years in Sacramento all but cemented those bad habits. I'd much rather have the two guys who know how to play.


It matters that they aren't all-stars because the team isn't going anywhere with the guys that know how to play. Unless they unload Pierce and KG for a complete tear-down, this is the Celtics for the next year or two beyond this season, and they don't have what it takes. Long term, a Rondo-Bradley-Lee-Green-Sullinger core is good for 36-40 wins and an eight-seed. It's absolutely a situation that might not work out, but regardless of whether or not the organization can handle him (and I think they have a good shot at it), you aren't gambling much in the trade. 





Floods said:


> And yeah, Sullinger and Bradley could get injured, while Cousins _very well_ could continue to be a dumbshit and amount to a waste of assets. I'd bet money on the latter.
> 
> This team isn't winning with Cousins, unless he turns into 2000 Shaq overnight.


The exact same things were all said about Zach Randolph, and he went from being literally given away by multiple teams to a borderline franchise guy just by getting his head screwed on straight. He doesn't have to be a good defender - Brandon Bass wasn't last year when the team almost made the Finals with him. All Cousins needs to do is park himself in the low post on offense and grab rebounds on both sides of the floor for the team to win.


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## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

Guys, Cousins is 22 years old. He's 5 full years away from his prime (physically and emotionally). It simply makes no sense to let this opportunity pass them by. This guy has franchise-player-level talent.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

Floods said:


> Why does it matter if they aren't franchise players? Even if the behavioral problems straighten out, Cousins has a ways to go before he could be considered a decent building block, considering he doesn't play any defense and has gawdawful shot selection, and 3 years in Sacramento all but cemented those bad habits. I'd much rather have the two guys who know how to play.


I'm not going to argue with you about Rondo given his recent pouty "Don't you know who I am‽" performance against the Clippers. However, where Cousins is concerned the shot selection problem has two parts. First, no one on that squad can make a decent post entry pass, which leads to him stepping out to the perimeter to get the ball. Two, his determination to shoot it no matter where he gets it. Boston can alleviate that first problem.


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## Attila (Jul 23, 2003)

Trade for Perkins!


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

I'd rather trade for Westbrook, who is actually the guy Boston needs.


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## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

E.H. Munro said:


> I'd rather trade for Westbrook, who is actually the guy Boston needs.


Too late, unless he melts down. OKC made their decision this summer when they traded Harden.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

Oh, I know. I was more commenting on the silliness of trading for an offensively challenged player to help cure the team's offensive woes. They need a primary scorer.


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## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

I'd take a flier on Tyreke if he became available for spare parts and a draft pick.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

On another board we were having the DMC discussion, and someone posited that the Kings would demand Rondo in any scenario, which led to the question whether anyone would consider Rondo for DMC/DriveBy.


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## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

To be clear, it's if the Kings agreed to trade both of them (Cousins/Evans) for Rondo and only Rondo?


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

Yeah, that was the theoretical.


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## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

Eesh.......I mean, it's a huge gamble, but there's a really big potential payoff with the added benefit of giving you two guys young enough to rebuild around. I need to let this one stew for a little bit.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

That was my exact reaction. On the one hand I think 70% of what's wrong in Sacramento is those two on the same roster. On the other hand, Evans does handle and penetrate as well as any pornstar and you have Bradley to defend the 1 while being the de facto SG. And if Doc can teach Evans how to properly run an offense, and Boston can get Cousins the ball on the blocks, well, there's huge amount of upside there.


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## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

I don't know.......if it turns out that those two are just unreachable morons it becomes ruinous. At least with a more minor deal that doesn't include Evans or Rondo you haven't risked much to begin with. This would be one of those trades that either vaults the C's back into contention or makes an absolute mess of the next 5-10 years.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

I think we can probably put this one to sleep as DMC has been doing his Shaq impression since returning.


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

Bogg said:


> It matters that they aren't all-stars because the team isn't going anywhere with the guys that know how to play. Unless they unload Pierce and KG for a complete tear-down, this is the Celtics for the next year or two beyond this season, and they don't have what it takes. Long term, a Rondo-Bradley-Lee-Green-Sullinger core is good for 36-40 wins and an eight-seed. It's absolutely a situation that might not work out, but regardless of whether or not the organization can handle him (and I think they have a good shot at it), you aren't gambling much in the trade.


The Celtics' title winning days are over regardless, unless they pull off a blockbuster. Something on the caliber of the Chris Paul rumors from last year.

And I agree, that core sucks. But Bradley and Sullinger aren't supposed to be 'core' guys. Doesn't mean they aren't useful players that should be cast aside for a mentally weak big man with several basketball-related bad habits. Hell, Jeff Green as a 'core' guy is a funny thought.



> The exact same things were all said about Zach Randolph, and he went from being literally given away by multiple teams to a borderline franchise guy just by getting his head screwed on straight. He doesn't have to be a good defender - Brandon Bass wasn't last year when the team almost made the Finals with him. All Cousins needs to do is park himself in the low post on offense and grab rebounds on both sides of the floor for the team to win.


Randolph's just one guy, and where he was merely inept on defense, Cousins is also a dummy on that end of the floor. And I don't know why you'd be happy with a rich man's Brandon Bass, considering the one thing he explicitly lacks is what kept us out of the finals.



E.H. Munro said:


> Boston can alleviate that first problem.


But not the second, which is pretty glaring.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

Floods said:


> But not the second, which is pretty glaring.


If they're getting him the ball on the blocks the second problem takes care of itself. You don't mind DMC shooting from within 5'.


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## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

Floods said:


> The Celtics' title winning days are over regardless, unless they pull off a blockbuster. Something on the caliber of the Chris Paul rumors from last year.
> 
> And I agree, that core sucks. But Bradley and Sullinger aren't supposed to be 'core' guys. Doesn't mean they aren't useful players that should be cast aside for a mentally weak big man with several basketball-related bad habits. Hell, Jeff Green as a 'core' guy is a funny thought.
> 
> ...


It's looking like the Kings have taken Cousins off the table in response to his recent strong play, but unless the plan is just to make the playoffs and struggle to advance, Boston's going to have to take a risk on someone. Whether it's a good player who makes way too much money (Rudy Gay), a very talented headcase (Cousins), or a high-upside guy with injury concerns (say, Eric Gordon), they're going to have to go after a guy who's less than ideal and hope for some luck. Yes, it's going to involve shipping out some solid rotation guys who are good citizens, and it very well could end up backfiring on Ainge. There's no other way to get star-level talent at a discount in the current trade market.


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

The Celtics should probably blow it up. Smart thing would have been to do it in the offseason, perhaps. Of course the problem is that they can't really get a ton for what they have


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## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

They can't really blow it up because they're locked into so many contracts for guys who either don't have huge trade value (Bass, Lee, Green) or only have a couple of years left (Pierce, KG, Terry). Letting everyone walk this past summer and trading Pierce still doesn't get you much in the way of building blocks and just has Rondo playing with a D-league team. They were destined to start out slow and disinterested, but they also need to swing a trade for one more piece, as well.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

Diable said:


> The Celtics should probably blow it up. Smart thing would have been to do it in the offseason, perhaps. Of course the problem is that they can't really get a ton for what they have


The owner's note comes due in the near future. They've been openly preparing to cash out (witness the recent cable deal where Xfinity Sports got a ginormous discount on their Celtics cable franchise with a 25 year commitment all for a nine figure up front payment), so dumpster diving in the lotto wasn't an option for them.


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