# Game Thread ~ Toronto @ Detriot (01/14/2004)(7:30 pm, Sportsnet FAN 590)



## Dathomieyouhate (Jun 21, 2003)

<CENTER><FONT FACE="arial black, arial" SIZE="4"><B><IMG SRC="http://www.nba.com/raptors/images/raptors_logo.gif" ALIGN="center">Toronto Raptors At Detriot <IMG SRC="http://www.nba.com/pistons/images/pistons_logo.gif" ALIGN="center"><hr>

Detriot Starting Line Up





































Toronto Raptors Starting Line up






































</center></Font>

The pistons are one of the hottest teams in the league. i hope they can keep the win streak alive so we can try to snap it.


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## ElevatorMan (Jan 8, 2004)

Great game thread ounce again.... lol...look at ben wallace in the picture..he looks like a monkey.:laugh:


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## ElevatorMan (Jan 8, 2004)

on a more serious note... this will be the toughest game for the raptors in a long time... Detroit is a team that plays within there boundries... they have bought into Larry Brown's system and are playing great basketball.. touogh matchup for the Raptors when you look down low... Ben Wallace and Elden Cambell along with Mehmet Okur will be a huge problem for the undersized raptors... 

Hey KO maybe this is a good time to put MOISO in and give the kid a shot... with no AD down low we are going to look for Baxter to have a huge game against Big Ben... Our guard play must be steller in this game for us to win... Wen NEED at least 20+ points from Vince and Jalen and 10 from Alvin to win this one


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## AdamIllman (May 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>ElevatorMan</b>!
> 
> 
> Hey KO maybe this is a good time to put MOISO in and give the kid a shot... with no AD down low we are going to look for Baxter to have a huge game against Big Ben... Our guard play must be steller in this game for us to win... Wen NEED at least 20+ points from Vince and Jalen and 10 from Alvin to win this one


I agreed with everything from the first paragraph of your post..but i dont agree with any of this^^.

1. Moiso is not a hard nosed guy..he wouldnt be able to do anything against the likes of ben wallace or elden campbell. 

2. Detroit is not gonna score 100 points. We dont need huge offensive games from anyone we need them to keep playing solid D and for one guy to step it up in the 4th to seal the W.


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## Dathomieyouhate (Jun 21, 2003)

im not sure if bosh is going to play against detriot. people have been saying he will return to the line up against detriot. We'll have to see about that.


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## Dathomieyouhate (Jun 21, 2003)

Detriot just won their 9th in a row beating the bulls. they'll be looking for 10 against us.


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## ElevatorMan (Jan 8, 2004)

hellbots player of the game prediction- 

Vince Carter - 34 points, 4 assists and 4 boards


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## MLKG (Aug 25, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>AdamIllman</b>!
> 
> Detroit is not gonna score 100 points. We dont need huge offensive games from anyone we need them to keep playing solid D and for one guy to step it up in the 4th to seal the W.


220 points in their last two games. 

They have just been playing great basketball lately. In their last 3 games against Houston, Dallas, and Chicago they've won by a combined 48 points. They are very hot right now.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Mike luvs KG</b>!
> They are very hot right now.


Mugatu: "The Pistons are so _hot_ right now."



This is going to be a tough game. We need Vince, Jalen, and Donny to have huge games. The only way to break the Detroit defensive system is to make good passes all game long. If we do our "one and out" jobs and our lazy pull-up jumpers, we won't be able to compete. Should be a good game to watch, though. An interesting storyline should be Mike Curry's play against his former team. Wait, did I say interesting? I meant boring. But still useful.


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## TOballer (Aug 29, 2003)

prediction....Big Ben with 38 rebounds!!!


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## Yao Mania (Aug 4, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>ElevatorMan</b>!
> lol...look at ben wallace in the picture..he looks like a monkey.:laugh:


haha that is one funny pic... more like a gorilla actually, he was probably scratching his armpits after that dunk :laugh: 

but yah are u guys forgeting this is actually a pretty good game for KO? It is his former team after all... I'm sure he'll want to win this game really bad. But bottom line of the game: Vince'll either make us or break us.

btw will Big Bosh Man be back yet?


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## Mattsanity (Jun 8, 2003)

Detroit is basically New Orleans. We literally can't handle them.


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## ElevatorMan (Jan 8, 2004)

I just meant that Detroit being such a great defensive team our "good" players like Vince and Jalen need to produce because it will be difficult for others to get invoved if they aren;t on there game


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## Dathomieyouhate (Jun 21, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Mattsanity</b>!
> Detroit is basically New Orleans. We literally can't handle them.


ya but new orleans front line causes way more problems then detriots because they're bigger and have a better post up game then detriot. i think the raptors are going to wake up for this game seeing detriot is red hot and all.. the raptors need to make a statement and this is the game to do it.


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## Slasher (Jul 11, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Dathomieyouhate</b>!
> <CENTER><FONT FACE="arial black, arial" SIZE="4"><B><IMG SRC="http://www.nba.com/raptors/images/raptors_logo.gif" ALIGN="center">Toronto Raptors At Detriot <IMG SRC="http://www.nba.com/pistons/images/pistons_logo.gif" ALIGN="center"><hr>
> 
> Detriot Starting Line Up
> ...


<font face="Trebuchet MS">There is no way that Bosh is playing, and if he somehow does then he probably will not start. Lonny Baxter will most likely start again.


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## g_prince_4_lyfe (Sep 10, 2003)

Well, if Toronto wants to have ANY chance against this team, they better play with 100% passion and energy like they did on Sunday against Portland! 

Do we have a chance to beat them? Yeah! I don't care if the "Bad Boys 2" Pistons are on a 9 game winning streak! Streaks can come to an end just like that! Don't be surprised if the Raps come up with one tonight!

Look on the bright side: at least this isn't the SECOND game on the back 2 back! Oh boy...tomorrow? :dead:


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## g_prince_4_lyfe (Sep 10, 2003)

Oh yeah I just wanna add something else to what I said earlier!

Does anyone else but me feel that Toronto has a slight advantage since Kevin O'Neill was the assistant coach for the Pistons last season? I mean, he knows the Pistons like the back of his hand! He had a part in making Ben Wallace a defensive threat in the east! He helped the team make the eastern conference finals! Don't you people think that maybe O'Neill knows all the strengths and weaknesses of this team? Sure, there's a new coach, but they're still playing the same way they did last season! Nothing's really changed with this team!


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## ElevatorMan (Jan 8, 2004)

it is reported that Bosh will sit out his thrird straight game.

come on moiso!!!! Bosh said he wants to be able to produce for the rest of the season... therefore he doesn't want to rush back


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>g_prince_4_lyfe</b>!
> Oh yeah I just wanna add something else to what I said earlier!
> 
> Does anyone else but me feel that Toronto has a slight advantage since Kevin O'Neill was the assistant coach for the Pistons last season? I mean, he knows the Pistons like the back of his hand! He had a part in making Ben Wallace a defensive threat in the east! He helped the team make the eastern conference finals! Don't you people think that maybe O'Neill knows all the strengths and weaknesses of this team? Sure, there's a new coach, but they're still playing the same way they did last season! Nothing's really changed with this team!


that could give us a slight advantage, but the Pistons got a whole bunch of players compared to last season plus a new head coach.

still, they did keep their core guys minus Uncle Cliff. 

i don't really like to look at things like that.


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## Dathomieyouhate (Jun 21, 2003)

*Re: Re: Game Thread ~ Toronto @ Detriot (01/14/2004)(7:30 pm, Sportsnet FAN 590)*



> Originally posted by <b>Slasher</b>!
> 
> 
> <font face="Trebuchet MS">There is no way that Bosh is playing, and if he somehow does then he probably will not start. Lonny Baxter will most likely start again.


alright it's been fixed.


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## Dathomieyouhate (Jun 21, 2003)

21-16 raptors..

we're owning the glass.

playing great ball. ben wallace has no offensive game he should just stop shooting.


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## Dathomieyouhate (Jun 21, 2003)

24-21 at the end of the first Q vince with 7 points.


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## Dathomieyouhate (Jun 21, 2003)

36-29 in the 2nd Q raps are playing well

marsh hits a 3 39-29


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## Dathomieyouhate (Jun 21, 2003)

ben wallace gets ejected raptors are in good shape 44-36


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

Wow, Detroit is playing like garbage.

Mike Curry frustrates Ben Wallace, Ben gets t-d up, Ben argues some more, Ben is ejected. If Curry isn't on the floor, that never happens. Where are all the Curry haters now?

I still fear this team. They have all the reasons to come out in the second half like monsters.

Toronto has to keep the offensive pressure on and continue to hit the glass.

Donny is having a big game so far, nice on him.


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## MLKG (Aug 25, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>speedythief</b>!
> 
> I still fear this team. They have all the reasons to come out in the second half like monsters.


They have the reasons, but I don't know about the legs. Damn these back to backs.


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## ozzzymandius (Jun 9, 2003)

*Which one of you guys PAID OFF the Refs !!!*

Whoever did it ... count me in for a twixie ... (that's a tewnty !! hahahahaaa) 

I can't believe it .. we're getting some good calls, Big Ben's been ejected, Mo Pete does his flop routine and gets away with it .. (again), Curry is a defensive monster, Vince finally woke up and started taking it to the basket...

Ok ... so we like these guys .. they're winning !!!
but where is our regular lackluster team ?? (kidding)

OHHH and don't forget the Scot !!!

Excellant D !! Good passing and good presence ... even getting a stop on Big Ben .. 

WOW !!! 
This is what I call a GAME !!!!


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## Vinsanity (May 28, 2002)

toronto off to a great start....:yes:, hope they finish it off

did you see carter sayin hush to the crowd....lmfao....i hope he finishes with atleast 25


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

This is exactly how we wanted Detroit to play.

There shooting jumpshots, and now with Ben Wallace out, we'll dominate the boards even _more_.

Michael Curry, I love you man. He wasn't necessarly playing great defense on Big Ben early on, but was being physical and frustrated him which leaded to Ben being ejected. Bud, you know you really love Curry deep down.

Arch having another solid outing, playing solid defense. Him and Baxter are in a bit of foul trouble though, so the Pistons will more than likely try to exploit that.

Donyell having a great game so far, very solid on the boards, he really needed this after that slump he was in. Also, good first half for Vince, was settling for jumpers early on, but in the 2nd quarter, started realizing he can torch tayshaun, and started driving to the basket.

Losing Big Ben will obviously hurt the Pistons a lot, I expect them to close the lead a bit, and maybe come out of the half with a run, but I think we'll win it.


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## MLKG (Aug 25, 2003)

How was Curry being physical with Ben? Ben was frustrated because Mike was flopping.

Interesting though considering the two are best friends.


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## ozzzymandius (Jun 9, 2003)

*Serious Foul Trouble !!!!*

So lets see ....

Baxter with 5
Curry with 4
Archie with 4
Donyell with 4


I wonder if the DNP's will finally see some floor time ???

Could we possibly see Moiso ?? (still somehow doubt it)

And Curry was the player who caused Ben that last foul which he got so mad over and led to the ejection..... Yes that was Curry on the floor as Ben was walking away Mike ... luv of KG not withstanding ...


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## MLKG (Aug 25, 2003)

Yeah it was Curry on the floor, but he didn't frustrate Ben with physical play, he frustrated him with flopping.


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## Dathomieyouhate (Jun 21, 2003)

72-66 raptors are starting to slip

vince is playing terrible.


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## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

Refs just missed a call on Memo... The Raptors keep hitting threes everytime we get it close.


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## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

Stupid T on Rip, we had the momentum and he gets a T...


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## macro6 (Jul 23, 2002)

vince misses 10 straight jumpers. 15 pts in first half, 2 pts in second.


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## macro6 (Jul 23, 2002)

why is M.Curry still in there?


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## charlz (Jun 9, 2003)

This GAME is everything that is wrong with the NBA.

The whole 2nd 1/2 of the game had the disgusting aroma of <b>make up calls</b>.

Wallace should never have been thrown out of the game and the Raps should not have had to pay the rest of the game for the call by a gutless ref who was concerned about his job security.

Raps likely win this game if Wallace is not thrown out and and the Refs had the courage to call the game even partially fair.

I know there are home town calls but this was light years beyond that. Every time a Rap came near a Piston in the 2nd half it was a <b>foul on the Raps</b>.

Mean while on the other end of the floor when the Raptors were getting hammered nothing was called except a few on Vince.


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## Mattsanity (Jun 8, 2003)

Vince Carter made the Raptors lose. If he atleast made a couple of shots from those long consecutive JUMP SHOT misses, we would of still had hope.


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## AdamIllman (May 12, 2003)

UN-****ING-BELIEVABLE. This is possibly the worst Raptors loss in history. I have never been this angry over a loss...vince should have been sitting his *** on the ****in bench for the last 2 minutes at least. he was pathetic


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## Mattsanity (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>charlz</b>!
> This GAME is everything that is wrong with the NBA.
> 
> The whole 2nd 1/2 of the game had the disgusting aroma of <b>make up calls</b>.
> ...


Can you please put aside the stupid calls in favour of the Pistons and blame Vince for this game?


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## macro6 (Jul 23, 2002)

its partly vinces's fault, but he did went to the line 16 times.

nothin hurt us more than detriot's pick and roll in the 4th. it basically took donyell out of the game in the defensive end. that would leave m.curry, as our only big man in the middle to stop the drive.


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## MrTasty (Jul 5, 2003)

I disagree, Charlz. The refs were making calls whenever anybody went near anybody. They just didn't make any calls on stupid jump shots. Everytime we went inside we got the call. The refs made me angry....but the Raptors made me furious. I'm not even gonna bother watching tomorrow night.


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## KeonBackinTO (May 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Mattsanity</b>!
> 
> 
> Can you please put aside the stupid calls in favour of the Pistons and blame Vince for this game?


I don't blame this game at Vince at all, sure he made lots of stupid shots but the D sucked at the end. Especially in the paint. Okur dominated. If we played good D the Raps would of held on.

The fault I think goes to KO and his refusal to play Moiso, all 4 frontcourt players were in serious foul trouble. And were afraid to play aggressive D, put Moiso to take some fouls and be a shot blocking presence. 
Also Arch gets some boards but his no game on the offensive end.

KO needs to play more players, I feel for Mason Jr. plays great but doesn't see the court again since that game.

If we could of contained them on D we would of won no matter how bad our O and especially VC played.


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## froggyvk (Sep 12, 2002)

MEMMMOOOOO


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## Dathomieyouhate (Jun 21, 2003)

i can't wait till bosh is our franchise player because vince is half the man he used to be. i'm beggining to lose all hope in him.. when guys like rip hamilton are tearing you apart you know you're falling off.


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## charlz (Jun 9, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>AdamIllman</b>!
> UN-****ING-BELIEVABLE. This is possibly the worst Raptors loss in history. I have never been this angry over a loss...vince should have been sitting his *** on the ****in bench for the last 2 minutes at least. he was pathetic


KO's is stubborn why?

1. why go to Vince when he is 0-8 and the reason you relinquished a 12 point lead - esp. when Rose is consistantly getting inside?

2. Play Moiso when your bench is short- sorry but Micheal Curry coming over in the paint to help was obvoisly not stopping Rip or Okur.

I am also angry as **** a 12 point lead with their best player out of the game? It's a joke.

P.S. Great game for Marshall.


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## macro6 (Jul 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Dathomieyouhate</b>!
> i can't wait till bosh is our franchise player because vince is half the man he used to be. i'm beggining to lose all hope in him.. when guys like rip hamilton are tearing you apart you know you're falling off.



alvin williams and m.curry were the ones that covered rip.


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## ElevatorMan (Jan 8, 2004)

OK... i know alot of ppl are gonna get mad at this comment but... Vince Carter and Alvin Williams lost this game for us... Vince in the third quarter shot 0-7 with 2 points.... he was taking jump shots and bad shots when detroit started to climb back into the game. He made a great effort in the fourth but you can't play 3 quarters if you are a superstar... you must play all 4... and Alvin Williams probably played some of the worst defence i have seen in a long time... he jumped at every pump fake Rip made he let Rip blow by him he fouled him and sent him to the line for 2 consecutive 3 point plays.... sorry guys but it's true


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## macro6 (Jul 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>charlz</b>!
> 
> 
> KO's is stubborn why?
> ...


obviously m.curry couldnt stop rip or okur. give moiso a chance.


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## Mattsanity (Jun 8, 2003)

Vince needs to watch some Rip Hamilton Basketball.


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## charlz (Jun 9, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>ElevatorMan</b>!
> OK... i know alot of ppl are gonna get mad at this comment but... Vince Carter and Alvin Williams lost this game for us...


I don't think any one would argue - Alvin is some kinda streaky.

Vince - I just don't get it - he decided to start drawing fouls and driving 12 points too late...


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## macro6 (Jul 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mattsanity</b>!
> Vince needs to watch some Rip Hamilton Basketball.



both are completely different type of players. Rip is one of the best mid range shooters and exels off screens, like reggie miller.


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## KeonBackinTO (May 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Mattsanity</b>!
> Vince needs to watch some Rip Hamilton Basketball.


and KO needs to learn to play more than 8 guys for a change.


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## Mattsanity (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>macro6</b>!
> 
> 
> give moiso a chance.


You seriously think after 1000 games(exaggerating) of DNP's, you think he would of been in top form tonight and make a difference? Maybe after 10 games in a row of court time, he can shake that rust off.


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## NeoSamurai (Jan 16, 2003)

We had them on the ropes and didnt put them away.....Marshall had an outstanding game but thats pretty much all the good news we can come away with....Its definitely demoralizing that we cant beat a team we potentially will meet in the playoffs when they dont have their best player playing for the majority of the game and they played a game the day before....

Tomorrow nights game against New Orleans will be over by halftime I predict.....


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## charlz (Jun 9, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>MrTasty</b>!
> The refs made me angry....but the Raptors made me furious.


both were deplorable - the Raps could have over come either one after some excellent play by Marshall/Rose <b>but not both</b>.

I think alot of the Rap play was due to the Refs - if Vince is not getting calls he relents and starts J'ing it - not that that is an excuse - when he gets like that I think you need to call Marshalls number he is a tougher player.


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## KeonBackinTO (May 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Mattsanity</b>!
> 
> 
> You seriously think after 1000 games(exaggerating) of DNP's, you think he would of been in top form tonight and make a difference? Maybe after 10 games in a row of court time, he can shake that rust off.


couldnt be any worse then the guys that were playing in there. he can jump and block shots he would of screwed up detroits offense, its not hard to score over Curry in the post. We needed a shot blocker. And unlike Arch this guy has some O.


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## Mattsanity (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>KeonBackinTO</b>!
> 
> 
> couldnt be any worse then the guys that were playing in there. he can jump and block shots he would of screwed up detroits offense, its not hard to score over Curry in the post. We needed a shot blocker. And unlike Arch this guy has some O.


Whoa whoa whoa. You've went too far on Moiso. You know what, you can only wish Moiso would have some offense, partially block a shot, and screw the Piston's offense LOL


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## KeonBackinTO (May 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Mattsanity</b>!
> 
> 
> Whoa whoa whoa. You've went too far on Moiso. You know what, you can only wish Moiso would have some offense, partially block a shot, and screw the Piston's offense LOL


Youre right. Curry installs fear in other teams when the see him downlow, as well teams need to triple team Arch to keep him from scoring. And the one thing that teams hate most is when a teams 4 post players have 5 fouls and dont want to play aggressive because of it. 
Detroit dominated downlow and Moiso might of helped. But we arent ever going to find out because KO refuses to play him.


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## macro6 (Jul 23, 2002)

ph33r the curry


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## MLKG (Aug 25, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>charlz</b>!
> 
> 
> both were deplorable - the Raps could have over come either one after some excellent play by Marshall/Rose <b>but not both</b>.
> ...


What are you talking about? Vince got tons of calls. Every time he drove he went to the line, and got the benefit on every close block/charge call. Tayshaun Prince did a great job of preventing him from driving though and Vince was too content to just shoot.

Just because there were a lot of fouls doesn't mean it was the refs fault, Toronto is very undersized up front and were hacking like crazy trying to stop Memo.

All games have bad calls, and this game had bad calls go both ways. The offensive goal tend they called on Memo was possibly the worst call of the game.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

Ok, well, we lost, so I guess the whole population of the board will rush the ACC like the storming of the Bastille. I'm glad our fans are so hardcore, but we really need to look at the game objectively.


Did the Raptors play very well in the first half? Not really. It's not like we dominated the game for the first 24 minutes. We were just benefitting from the poor Pistons play, and some three-point shots. I'm not saying we played badly, but the game was ours to take in the first half and we could only manage a ten-point gap, which we all know isn't enough for our team.


Sometimes it seems like Vince... I mean, he went to the line like fifteen times this game. Every time he went inside, he got the call. So what does he do? He takes about eleven consecutive 16-22' jumpshots from the start of the third into the fourth quarter. So instead of getting guaranteed points, he jack's-up garbage over and over, early shot attempts with no second-chance opportunities, and it costs us. What was he thinking? If Vince can't get past Bobby Sura and Tayshaun Prince, who can he get past? He played alright on the defensive end tonight, but why in the world he chooses to take a dozen jump shots in a row with lots of time on the shot clock befuddles me.


Jalen played great, IMO. He did everything in his power. We should've tried to get the ball into his hands late more often. But he is also turnover-prone, so I guess it's a trade-off. He'll give you two points on one possession, then have the ball stolen on the next. At least when the ball is in Alvin's hands, most of the time he can protect it. But Jalen still played well.


I know KO is going to get blamed for this game. But there is no way he is asking the guys to take quick jumpshots. KO can't go out on the floor and play--he needs the players to follow his directions and trust his advice. I didn't see that in the second-half tonight.


Why didn't Moiso play? Moiso hasn't played at all in several games. To force him into this game in the dying minutes wouldn't have been beneficial. You can't ask a guy to sit for more than a dozen games, then come into one as tight and badly-officiated as this one ice-cold and make a difference. Moiso wouldn't have changed anything.


We still need another big man. Lonny doesn't have much gas in his tank and after about 25 minutes he starts to drag. We can't rely on Donyell to play 40 minutes and take-on all the hard guarding responsibilities himself. Especially when Archibald is a non-factor on offence. We really need Bosh back, but we also really need some size and experience in the frontcourt. This game is one of many examples of this.


I'm not surprised we lost. Detroit is a very good team, and if you let them back into the game by taking rushed j's, you are driving the nails into your own coffin.


But it's just one game. Learn your lesson and move on.


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## charlz (Jun 9, 2003)

ok I got to ask - is that a picture of you? if not who?


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## John (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>charlz</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Usually, great analysist is some geek, sorry mod just have a feeling you are one of the type.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

*LOL*

Doesn't anybody watch Canadian television?!


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## Dathomieyouhate (Jun 21, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>speedythief</b>!
> *LOL*
> 
> Doesn't anybody watch Canadian television?!


trailer park boys - the best show on earth


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## Dathomieyouhate (Jun 21, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>macro6</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> alvin williams and m.curry were the ones that covered rip.


duh you know what i mean. he played better then carter


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## MrTasty (Jul 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>speedythief</b>!
> *LOL*
> 
> Doesn't anybody watch Canadian television?!


Haha, actually, no. Not many people do.

But the Trailer Park Boys are being picked up by an American network, I heard.


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

I have to say that I was more encouraged by this Loss than I have been by many of our Wins.

The Raps played with intensity and desire for an entire game with only a few short lapses. Finally!

I can really see this team coming together with over 40 regular season games left.

VC essentially lost this game single-handedly with horrible shooting that often led to quick Detroit points. And on a night when he finally got the calls he has been wanting on his drives. Vince is clutch. This won't happen very often.

KO made the situation worse by force feeding VC on a night when the offense was flowing well with Jalen and Marshall and ball movement.

Wallace got tossed, but we had no Bosh for the whole game. Pistons rebounded better without Wallace.

Alvin was cold from outside but has been on fire lately. Can't shoot over 50% the entire season from outside.

Only big negative was our help D. Disappeared late in the game. Guards would force baseline drives and no one to cut them off.

Rip Hamilton is a star player. Look at the contract extension the Pistons just gave him. Don't underestimate him.

41 free throws for Detroit will beat any team on any night.


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## ElevatorMan (Jan 8, 2004)

i guess i'm not the only one that blames vc for the loss


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## g_prince_4_lyfe (Sep 10, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>ElevatorMan</b>!
> i guess i'm not the only one that blames vc for the loss


Vince missed 11 shots in the second half! Damn right it's his fault! Why the hell didn't he drive the ball! There was NO Ben Wallace there! NOTHING was there to stop VC! He and the Raps were doing everything right the first half! WHY change strategy in hte second half? Ugh...

Well, this is one of those losses that obviously shouldn't have happened! The other ones were to the Magic, Heat, Mavericks, and Clippers! Ugh...talk about an unpredictable team!


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## Dathomieyouhate (Jun 21, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>MrTasty</b>!
> 
> 
> Haha, actually, no. Not many people do.
> ...



what network? damn that's major.


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## MrTasty (Jul 5, 2003)

This is the ultimate switch of topics, but Trailer Park Boys was picked up by BBC America.


so not a major network or anything, but still a big deal.


http://www.cbc.ca/arts/stories/quickhits2212


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

That's cool. Maybe they can finally afford to film some episodes in the winter, now.


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

We shoulda won this game. We so shoulda won this game. I don't know why Vince just doesn't get it through his head - STOP SHOOTING and take it inside... I highly doubt we would have lost if he took it inside more. I agree - all his fault we lost this game. And I might be alone but I'd say that Donyell Marshall has been outplaying him since the trade.


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## ozzzymandius (Jun 9, 2003)

*One more thing about this whole mess...*

Did you guys notice (of course you did.. what am I saying) that every time VC took it inside ...something good happened ? 
Either he made an easy play ...which usually happens because teams just can't stop him all the time .. or he ran into a wall, got the foul or dished it out to someone else who got the points.

Is this such a complicated issue for this boy to understand? The coach has been telling him this for months ... commentators have been screaming the same thing .... we see it night in and night out.... I know they review past games to find out what's effective and what isn't... Can't he tell whn to call it quits on the jumper ???

And all that wouldn't be so bad .... if he didn't make it look SO FLIPPIN EASY whenever he takes it into the paint... His talent dominates so much that he makes it look simple ... like anyone could have done it. 

That's how you spot true talent ... when its effortless enough that everyone thinks they can do it too ... that's talent !!!


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## CrookedJ (May 8, 2003)

The problem is think of how many games he's won for us with the crossover/ 18 ft jumper. I can think of several 4th quarters where Vince simply didn't miss those ( or went 4 for 5 or something). He gets into that "inVinceable" mindset and thinks every shot is gonna drop.I don't know what kind of tape they review, but the should show Vince that he misses some of those too!!

Even last night they did a good job of getting Vince the ball in Iso, he just made poor decisions with it.


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## ballocks (May 15, 2003)

maybe i'm one of the only ones defending vince today, but i thought he had a decent game against the pistons on wednesday. people are making a big deal about him missing eight straight to start the second half but if he'd made them, i bet people would be singing his praises.

lots of those shots were launched in response to something that occurred at the other end. i'm not saying that that’s sufficient reason to take them, but i think it's plausible. now, maybe if vince were playing a more dedicated brand of _defensive_ basketball, those cases would have never come to be in the first place. it was often vince's check who nailed a twenty-two footer for the pistons, that would ultimately lead to vince getting irked and trying to match him in the first five seconds of toronto's rebuttal possession. he missed those shots- and rarely did we have a rebounder in position under the hoop- but people/fans/players seem to enjoy that back-and-forth-edness when the players are hitting the shots. it's too bad vince didn't come through yesterday but he was playing in the flow of the game (in my opinion). i don't mind those shots because vince normally hits them at a better clip.

for those fans criticizing vince for not taking it to the hoop more often, i think that argument falls on deaf ears today. i think chuck swirsky and leo rautins have just been around the team for too long and don't really see things the way that your typical, third-party analyst would see them. they were again on vince to take the ball to the hole, take the ball to the hole, there's no ben wallace down there, take the ball to the hole, etc., etc., etc..

i don't believe that anyone was actually _watching_ vince drive to the hole yesterday? he was driving more than i've seen him do in a very long time- it's just that the pistons defense was collapsing around him and shooting the gap to eliminate passing lanes (the other raptors on the court weren't doing vince any favors by standing and waiting for him to "do something"). i remember a series in the third quarter when vince went HARD around tayshaun twice in a row and simply had nowhere to go. he had to kick it out to a perimeter teammate both times and it led to nothing. but he didn't get credit for it- not then, and not now.

by leo and chuck saying that vince can draw a foul EVERY time he goes inside, they're making this issue far more public than it needs to be- simply because i think they're "wrong". it's never that simple. moreover, if vince ever chose to do that for an entire game- for each possession- every defense in the nba would learn to counterpoint that ridiculous strategy in no time. vince had nowhere to go yesterday (especially in the second half). don't let those missed jump shots distract you from seeing what he was actually doing when he WASN'T shooting them. 16 foul shots (although 4 of them were for technicals) in a game are pretty good- and it was not even easy for vince to get them. he was going up and drawing fouls for *that* expressed purpose- there was no way he was going to “and one” the pistons on any of those drives. there was just no room. (every piston seemed to also be playing fantastic defense to make up for the loss of ben; in the end, they were probably playing better defensively (as a collective group) than they have in a long, long time- with or without wallace. when you have team-wide commitment to accomplish a goal, it makes things far easier.)

in terms of make-up calls, i would also disagree there. i think the referees were doing a great job calling yesterday's game. both the raptors and the pistons seemed to come out of their respective locker rooms as if the league _owed them_ a game for showing up in a snowstorm. they were prima donnas yesterday. if anyone thinks ben wallace didn't deserve to get thrown out of yesterday's game, tell me something: was it not a charge? of course it was. if you were a referee (of 20+ years experience), and the player who you had rightfully just called for a foul came right out to you, in his frustration and anger for being so impotent offensively (as well as being well-checked on the offensive/defensive glass), and suggested you _*fornicate yourself*_ (there's a euphemism for you) repeatedly, would you not serve him with a technical? of course you would. you might even throw him out of the game for THAT ALONE.

what if he then decided to boot the basketball downcourt in response to the tech? would you let it slide since you already nailed him once? no, of course not. this guy was being a prima donna of the most definitive variety, acting like a bitter child- again, as if something were OWED to him- and he rightly deserved the second technical foul (which was called by another ref, the only one who actually saw him boot the ball downcourt). 

the bottom line is that he deserved both calls. don't think the referees were spending the second half "making up" for their first half blunders because, in all honesty, i’m sure they'd do it all again in a heartbeat. ben should've been booted. pistons' fans should consider themselves lucky that larry brown wasn't ALSO tech'ed up for calling the fouls "B.S." (non-acronymed). maybe he should have also been booted. 

peace

p.s. where are all the morris peterson haters now? where are all the fans who we'd seen cite inconsistency as the primary weakness in his game? honestly, i never thought much of that opinion in the first place- i think every player in the league is inconsistent. the ones who have to carry that description around with them (like mopete) as baggage are really unfortunate souls. it’s very rarely their fault; fans are just looking for excuses to simplify the poor results of various teams.

this year, i would submit to you that mo pete is probably the most consistent raptor (least inconsistent?). what’s more, i’d certainly say that he’s the hardest-working raptor- almost every game. he comes off the bench fired up, he plays harder defensively than he does offensively (which is a blessing for us) and is never caught moping upcourt while the play develops around him. he’s always involved. i wish he’d get some respect already, because i would probably rank him at the top of our team’s rankings in terms of effort, hustle, focus, commitment and, absolutely, consistency. good on ya, mo’. 

(sorry for the long post. i'm just happy with yesterday's performance. i think the raptors played well and got beaten by a better team. maybe it would've helped us if ben had stayed _in_ the game since we certainly looked prepared against a pistons contingent that INCLUDED him; we didn't seem as prepared to play them WITHOUT him.)


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

Vince is so frustrating to watch, I mean if he only drove at least half of those horrible jumpers, we would have won. He wouldn't stop jacking those up in the 3rd, I mean you'd think after he'd miss 2-3 in a row he'd get mad at himself and start driving..what does he do? Takes more jumpers.

If I'm Kevin O'Neill at that point, I sit Vince's *** down, and yell at him to drive it to the basket everytime he takes one of those outside shots. But I guess O'Neill did tell him something that encouraged him in the 4th, but it was too late. Those jumpshots weren't neccesarly the worst shots to take as we know Vince is totally capable of making them, but they were early in the shot clock, and he had to have noticed he was cold from outside.

BTW-- Alvin Williams looked really, really bad tonight. His defense was _horrible_ on Rip, almost every possession in the 4th the Pistons were running plays for Rip on Alvin. It's got to be all those ankle injuries really slowing him down.


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## Mattsanity (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>ballocks</b>!
> 
> 
> i don't believe that anyone was actually _watching_ vince drive to the hole yesterday? he was driving more than i've seen him do in a very long time- it's just that the pistons defense was collapsing around him and shooting the gap to eliminate passing lanes (the other raptors on the court weren't doing vince any favors by standing and waiting for him to "do something"). i remember a series in the third quarter when vince went HARD around tayshaun twice in a row and simply had nowhere to go. he had to kick it out to a perimeter teammate both times and it led to nothing. but he didn't get credit for it- not then, and not now.


I think allstars with the superb all-around ability should have an unstoppable offense.


> by leo and chuck saying that vince can draw a foul EVERY time he goes inside, they're making this issue far more public than it needs to be- simply because i think they're "wrong". it's never that simple. moreover, if vince ever chose to do that for an entire game- for each possession- every defense in the nba would learn to counterpoint that ridiculous strategy in no time. vince had nowhere to go yesterday (especially in the second half). don't let those missed jump shots distract you from seeing what he was actually doing when he WASN'T shooting them. 16 foul shots (although 4 of them were for technicals) in a game are pretty good- and it was not even easy for vince to get them. he was going up and drawing fouls for *that* expressed purpose- there was no way he was going to “and one” the pistons on any of those drives. there was just no room. (every piston seemed to also be playing fantastic defense to make up for the loss of ben; in the end, they were probably playing better defensively (as a collective group) than they have in a long, long time- with or without wallace. when you have team-wide commitment to accomplish a goal, it makes things far easier.)


If driving inside shouldn't be the primary factor for Vince, then he should settle for shots like the _current_ McGrady is doing to waste possessions and ultimately be the most important contributor to the opposition's win. I guess Vince is broken if he can't accelerate any offensive weapons anymore 




> i think the raptors played well and got beaten by a better team. maybe it would've helped us if ben had stayed _in_ the game since we certainly looked prepared against a pistons contingent that INCLUDED him; we didn't seem as prepared to play them WITHOUT him.)


:whofarted: I think the fact that you can beat any team was certainly valid amongst the Raptors yesterday despite the Pistons being the "better team".


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