# Now that we are out of the Playoff race, who do we draft?



## Sambonius (May 21, 2003)

We should draft a point guard with our first pick, likely to be 12 or 13. Since it is so easy to find a SG, we should go after the first available point guard with our pick. Ben Gordon will be gone by the time our number comes up, but I can see Jameer Nelson and or Sabastian Telfair falling to us. Jameer is a player that could play NOW. Telfair is a player that needs development for a couple seasons due to him coming straight out of high school. He is the shortest player coming out of high school to the pros in the history of basketball. Jameer is almost 3 and a half years older than Telfair. Telfair is Marburry's cousin. I don't know who I would draft, I haven't seen enough of each to say, but I know that Telfair is a quick mofo with a very good passing game. He is a solid defensive player as well. I know that Nelson plays like a champion, he puts his heart into the game and is also a very good passer but isn't the quickest. What do u guys think?? And dont suggest we draft Luke Jackson with our 13th pick, a SG position is so easy to fill, it's the PG position thats difficult. Also I wouldn't camble on a center, they are to succeptible to becoming busts.


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## PTB_loyalist (Apr 3, 2004)

in alot of mock drafts lately we have been projected to get Telfair, I agree with you about getting a PG because there harder to come by in this league. I checked out a mock draft site and we are expected to get this Russian SG/SF who sounds VERY talented. I will post a link later.


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## PTB_loyalist (Apr 3, 2004)

www.nbadraft.net/profiles/sergeimonya.asp 

the russian I was talking about ^


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## HOWIE (Dec 30, 2002)

Sergei Monya 

_*Strengths:* An athletic forward who is very intense. Has a well built body, solid fundamantaily and is a hard worker. Solid leadership abilities. Has a nice midrange jumper and is a solid 3pt shooter, but his best attribute is his team defense, he knows how to help teamates and he's a pretty good one on one defender too. He runs the court very well with good speed and quickness. His scoring abilities are a lot better than Khryapa and this is what puts him a notch above. Monya has improved his long-range shooting even though a bit more consistency would be helpful.

*Weaknesses:* Has to improve his rebounding and defense at times. He has suffered from bad coaching his entire life. With better coaching earlier on, he could be even further along at this point. Right now he's just a spot up shooter. He should improve his balhandling, which are ok now, but he's not comfortable on one on ones in offensive sets. His vision of the floor is suspect. He and Khryapa had no freedom in there games this year as they were both defensive role players. _

There are so many players out there it really is hard to really pinpoint who PatterNash is going to take. Portland has a lot of options with sign & trade ideas that the draft is just a place to pick up the best player on the board and worry about the rest later.


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## Sambonius (May 21, 2003)

I wouldn't pick Monya just because we have Darius and it's easy to come by a swing man. Anyways let me say this, with our first pick I'd take Nelson or Telfair, I'm confident one will be available. On NBADraft's mock draft it has the Sonics taking Telfair which is just unrealistic because they already have Ridnour. With our Memphis pick which seems to be in the 20's Id take Luck Jackson, Sasha Vujacic who looks like he has a crapload of skills, Robert Swift, or Romain Sato. I'm thinking with our Memphis pick Luke might already be gone, if so I would definetly take Sasha would is probably more skilled anyways. Robert Swift REALLY interests me, I don't like white centers, or even drafting centers because of the high chance of them becoming busts, but this guy showed a lot when I saw him, he has very good fundamentals for a guy his age. Sato is a shooter but I would take Swift over him. 

Now with our 2nd round pick I like the guy who we are projected to take on NBADraft who is Lionel Chalmers. If Sato is still available which I doubt I would take him or even Darius Rice who is a shooter and also Jerry Rice's nephew. I think if Luke Jackson or Sasha are available we take them with our Memphis pick, but I also think we should trade a future pick to a team at the bottom of the first round or beginning of second to take Robert Swift. He's only like 18 and has a lot of good skills for a big man, also he is 7-1, he just needs to gain strength and that will come.


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

We are NOT out of the playoff race. Giving up when it's this close with 6 games remaining is like giving up in Game 7 of the Finals with the score tied going into the final 5 minutes.

[strike]What a TERRIBLE fan you are to even suggest that we are out of the playoff race. Makes me sick.[/strike]


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## Nightfly (Sep 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>NathanLane</b>!
> We are NOT out of the playoff race. Giving up when it's this close with 6 games remaining is like giving up in Game 7 of the Finals with the score tied going into the final 5 minutes.
> 
> [strike]What a TERRIBLE fan you are to even suggest that we are out of the playoff race. Makes me sick.[/strike]


Why do you always call fans things like "TERRIBLE" when they don't agree with you?

Just relax man!


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

I think you are a terrible fan if you give up on your team when there are 6 games left in the season and your are still very much IN a playoff race.

Why even BE a fan if you're going to give up when the pressure's on? NOW is the exciting part. These next 6 games are what you live for as a fan. Some teams go several years without ever coming NEAR a shot at making the playoffs (talk to Washington or Clipper fans), and here we are RIGHT THERE and I hear some fans giving up. It is RIDICULOUS.

If you've given up on the Blazers at this point, I think you have zero heart and it makes me sick.


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## Sambonius (May 21, 2003)

Nathan how old are u? [strike]You sound like a coke fiend in denial lol[/strike]. We are just being realistic here, sure things can happen but I don't expect the Blazers to get in now. It's just an opinion, and I am the biggest Blazer fan, Im also a realistic person. It's likely that we won't be making the playoffs this year, all we could do now is come up with discussion about off season moves and draft picks. Simmer down child, you sound like one of those fake speakers in the churches preaching about Christianity while you are collecting 20's from all the people. It's okay to have some faith, but don't question us for our opinions and level-headedness.


 I know you were just joking, but please don't make comments like that to him, or any other fan on the board. I can only lead to a flame war between people. thanks for understanding


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## Sambonius (May 21, 2003)

Back to the topic, Sabastian Telfair and Luke Jackson in the first round would be too ill, someone call the paramedics.


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## jackiejackal (Nov 7, 2002)

I swear you could not have been a fan long ..
don't you know we fans are here year after year,wanting so
badly for our team to do well?

We start out the season with high hopes,and think this will be the year.We sweat through the games,cheer them and curse them.But they are still our Portland Trailblazers !

The final tribute for Bob is that the Portland Trailblazers will fall
out of the playoffs after all these years..
He will forever be linked to the downfall of the franchaise.


Every year they have declined a little further,it makes me sick.


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

That's B.S., Sambonius.

We are about to play OUR BIGGEST GAMES OF THE SEASON and you are talking about offseason moves????


These are the games that we have been waiting for all season. In a few games, we will be playing for our lives. You're talking about offseason moves and throwing in the towel, but call yourself a real fan?

Jackie- If you still believe in the Blazers, good for you. But some folk like ***** here have decided to desert the team during the most exciting stretch of the season. Did Laker fans give up when they fell behind by 17 points in the 4th qtr of Game 7?

Real fans get EXCITED when these situations arise.

"When the odds are saying you'll never win, that's when the grin should start."

If you live your life thinking "realistically," you will miss out on so much that life has to offer.

Since WHEN is sports realistic? Was it realistic that the 49-33 Blazers would win it all in 77? Was it realistic that the 8th seed Knicks would go to the 1999 Finals? Was it realistic that the 44-38 Bullets would win the championship? Was it realistic that the Grizzlies would win 49 games after only winning 29 the year before? Was it realistic to expect the Blazers to go 6-2 vs the Wolves and Kings? Was it realistic to expect the Blazers to come from 24 down vs the Kings?

*****- don't pretend to know what our reality will be. The future is completely unknown. In the moment of the unknown, lies FULL POTENTIAL.

What do you gain by talking about offseason moves now? Why don't you wait til the offseason? Why are you throwing in the towel when we are on the brink of doing something special?


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>jackiejackal</b>!
> 
> The final tribute for Bob is that the Portland Trailblazers will fall
> out of the playoffs after all these years..


It was Whitsitt's idea to trade Rasheed and Bonzi?

What article did I miss where this was revealed?

In fact, Bob positioned us well to make the playoffs this year (with a team full of players in their prime) and well into the future (with ZR and possibly Qyntel and Outlaw). He helped create a team that some of the fans can't relate to, which caused PatterNash to make moves that had things other to do with winning basketball games...

It can be argued that Whitsitt's moves created an inevitable fall, and that might be true... but his moves also perpetuated the playoff run and built a team that made it to two WC Finals. Without his wizardry, this team might have gone into the lottery in the mid-90's. And we might still be there.

Ed O.


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

No doubt, Ed.

We'd be 6th seed at least if we hadn't dealt Bonzi or Sheed.


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## QRICH (Feb 2, 2004)

We're talking in hypotheticals , we are not matmatically out of the playoffs just yet, but IF we do miss and hit the lotto I'd like us to package our picks to move up to the top 10 (IF needed) for a pg like Deven Harris or Ben Gorden, or maybe a bigman like Kosta Perovic.

OR, I'd love to see us move up to the top 2 (using Randolph) for Emeka or Howard. Emeka is gonna be a stud in this league. 6'10 256, if Theo can hold down the 5 like he has at 6'10 235, I seee no reason why Emeka can't.


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## RipCity9 (Jan 30, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>NathanLane</b>!
> These are the games that we have been waiting for all season. In a few games, we will be playing for our lives. You're talking about offseason moves and throwing in the towel, but call yourself a real fan?


We were playing for our lives last night, and we blew it. What gives you the confidence that a team that can't even show up for such a huge game is going to suddenly bounce back? I am an eternal optimist, but even I am having a hard time convincing myself that we're not dead.

As for this whole "we'd be in the playoffs had we kept Bonzi and Sheed" nonsense, think again. We were a below .500 club with Bonzi and Sheed, trailing the same teams we're trailing now.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

I think Luol Deng and Sebastian Telfair will be the best players to come out of this draft (assuming both enter the draft, as expected). If Telfair actually falls to Portland, I'd be ecstatic. However, when Telfair supposedly announced he'd enter the draft, the Clippers supposedly said that they'd select him.


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## ryanjend22 (Jan 23, 2004)

we arent out of the playoffs.....:no: 


this post is valid, but your jumping the gun!


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## quick (Feb 13, 2004)

> As for this whole "we'd be in the playoffs had we kept Bonzi and Sheed" nonsense, think again. We were a below .500 club with Bonzi and Sheed, trailing the same teams we're trailing now.


 The team right now is still no differen't.Remember that lineup we had when sheed was at the c spot when miles was new here? We were well back on our way to the playoffs but until nash and patterson pulled a deal out of their *** and traded sheed away.We would've been in a better pistition then we are right now had we kept him.Wait I think we could have gotten the 8th spot and not have to be in this position and worry about playoffs had the trade not happen.


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## Sambonius (May 21, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>NathanLane</b>!
> That's B.S., Sambonius.
> 
> We are about to play OUR BIGGEST GAMES OF THE SEASON and you are talking about offseason moves????


It's over KID, get it through your head. 



> These are the games that we have been waiting for all season. In a few games, we will be playing for our lives. You're talking about offseason moves and throwing in the towel, but call yourself a real fan?


I have always been a Blazers fan, never question that, in fact you are in no position to question that. [strike]You are a teeny bopper who lives in Portland and no option but to support the Blazers. Keep the mouth shut and keep on dreaming about the Blazers getting into the Playoffs, they don't care about insignificant people like you, they make millions. It hurts, but it's the truth, get off their sacks. [/strike]

Watch the language. And, if you paid attention, you'd know that Nathan does NOT live in Portland. At least get your facts straight when you try to insult someone. 



> If you live your life thinking "realistically," you will miss out on so much that life has to offer.
> 
> Since WHEN is sports realistic? Was it realistic that the 49-33 Blazers would win it all in 77? Was it realistic that the 8th seed Knicks would go to the 1999 Finals? Was it realistic that the 44-38 Bullets would win the championship? Was it realistic that the Grizzlies would win 49 games after only winning 29 the year before? Was it realistic to expect the Blazers to go 6-2 vs the Wolves and Kings? Was it realistic to expect the Blazers to come from 24 down vs the Kings?
> 
> ...


[strike]What are u Jesus or something? Don't give me a speech unless your Jesus or Allah, the latter being prefered.[/strike] Nobody said I was Miss Cleo or Nostradamus, I just said that odds were against us and realistically speaking we won't be making it. What do I gain by off season discussion? [strike]What do u gain by posting on this board u tard, it entertains you. Get off their sacks dude, you sound like a kid stuck with an obsession for Blazer nut sacks. If you still think theres a chance fine buddy, but don't try and discredit me for my beliefs, you sound like Christian/Muslim extremists.[/strike]

This is *not* appropriate. Watch yourself.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>RipCity9</b>!
> 
> As for this whole "we'd be in the playoffs had we kept Bonzi and Sheed" nonsense, think again. We were a below .500 club with Bonzi and Sheed, trailing the same teams we're trailing now.


What are you talking about? They were missing Derek Anderson altogether (because of injury) and Dale Davis was hurt and playing even worse than he has been the last month or so. Bonzi was in a huge slump, which everyone with any sense knew wasn't going to last. In spite of all of this, Portland was 8-7 at the time of the Bonzi trade. 

They had beaten both Memphis and Houston, which are teams that are (currently) ahead of us. They'd obviously had some ugly losses, too, or else they wouldn't have been 8-7 but claiming they were a "below .500 club" seems stretching it dramatically to me.

Ed O.


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## Trader Ed (Jun 17, 2002)

NBA Draft.net website


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## hasoos (Jan 3, 2003)

*Um*

Missing the Derek Anderson that shoots 36% from the field? Boy I am sure he improved the team a lot when he came back.. :grinning: Portland has been a .500 team before, and after the trade. The trade was a lateral one, which in fact was probably only done because Sheed turned down contract extensions. 

Now back to the original topic of the thread before it was hijacked by some very inconsiderate people out there. 

Looking through the draft, and looking at Portland's needs, I would consider drafting the following players, some of whom I think are vastly under rated. I also am posting these based upon the fact that I think they will be available when Portland has picks, and will not trade up (But, with the current roster, I do not think that is the case, I believe Portland will trade up).

1. Kirk Snyder of University of Nevada. This kid has a pro game, and played at a school with not a lot of press coverage. He is THE sleeper of the draft in my opinion.

2. Sebastien Telfair- I think that he has an upside that Jameer Nelson does not, seeing how Jameer Nelson is a Damon Stoudamire clone.

3. If they trade up, get Ben Gordon. This guy is a complete PG with the ability to control the floor and step up in a big game. He also defends well.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

it is really pointless, other than to try to prove a point, to argue something that is unknown.

Saying that the team WOULD be in the playoffs with Bonzi and Rasheed is pointless. Besides the simple fact we don't know what the team's record would be, we don't know how the team would play period. Could they be better? Yah. Could they be worse? Yah. 

Maybe the fans would have left period, even with the implied winning that would've happened in your scenario. 

Bonzi's "slump" hasn't exactly been broken in Memphis. He's scoring about the same, and still shooting a Derek Anderson like %. Yes, he's playing less minutes. But for the skill that Bonzi has, he shouldn't be shooting such a crappy %. 

There are somethings more important to the franchise, than keeping the playoff streak alive with players that a larger # of fans that you want to admit to, didn't like. 


It's like a bad friendship. Sure, you like the guy, but he has his very annoying habits. he's the kind of guy who, when he see's you at a party, will do this:

tilt his head up, @ an odd angle, and in a loud "I'm important" voice, say hey to you. But instead of going "Hey Hap!"

he'll go "Shaw-ness ee! SHAAAWWW NESSS EEEEE! what is UP?"

He'll say things that are stupid, but you laugh it iff, because he's a friend. You almost feel sorry for him, so you just keep him around. His friendship has some benefits (it makes you look better to the women) and it has some drawbacks (he's an annoying git).

But in reality, if you had a choice, you'd pick a new friend. You don't hate the guy, but he's just kinda like something you need to get away from.

The same thing can be said about Bonzi and Rasheed. Obviously the people in the organization know the players better than we do. I don't mean the players, as they all support the "brotherhood of NBA players". I mean the average person in the organization. I would bet you good money, they are more than happy to see these guys gone.

A lot of fans are happy to see them gone too. I enjoyed their time here, and think that if they had their heads on straight, they could've been something good. But at the same time, I'm glad they're gone. I don't see any point in talking about what could've been with the team, since we never know.


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## Webster's Dictionary (Feb 26, 2004)

For all the people who are saying we won't make the playoffs:

I hope your wrong.
If you are, I won't let you forget.:|


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## PTB_loyalist (Apr 3, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Minstrel</b>!
> I think Luol Deng and Sebastian Telfair will be the best players to come out of this draft (assuming both enter the draft, as expected). If Telfair actually falls to Portland, I'd be ecstatic. However, when Telfair supposedly announced he'd enter the draft, the Clippers supposedly said that they'd select him.


I thought i read somewhere that Luol Deng was staying an extra year at Duke, I'm not sure though.

*What do you think of Travis Outlaw, has anybody seen him play?* 

I know he can jump really high but what else can he do?


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## tlong (Jan 6, 2003)

Ed,

If we had not traded Bonzi and Sheed we would not have acquired Theo. We would definitely be a poorer team.


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

We were better with Sheed at center.


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

The Rasheed/Bonzi thing is completely irrelevant/redundant at this point.

Personally I go for Telefair if he is on the board. He is Marburry's cousin but is noted as being a far better distributor of the ball rather than the prolific scorer than Marburry was. Sebastian is 6' and 185lbs.


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## MAS RipCity (Feb 22, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Lakota_Blazer</b>!
> We're talking in hypotheticals , we are not matmatically out of the playoffs just yet, but IF we do miss and hit the lotto I'd like us to package our picks to move up to the top 10 (IF needed) for a pg like Deven Harris or Ben Gorden, or maybe a bigman like Kosta Perovic.
> 
> OR, I'd love to see us move up to the top 2 (using Randolph) for Emeka or Howard. Emeka is gonna be a stud in this league. 6'10 256, if Theo can hold down the 5 like he has at 6'10 235, I seee no reason why Emeka can't.


Nah, Okafor dominates lackluster big man competition in the NCAA,he won't do that against many in the L. Zach is proven. We need backcourt help and thats it. Our frontcourt is fine.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>tlong</b>!
> 
> If we had not traded Bonzi and Sheed we would not have acquired Theo. We would definitely be a poorer team.


Theo makes this team better than this team with Dale starting. Rasheed and Bonzi make this team better than SAR and Theo do.

Of course, if SAR (or ZR) are moved for good value, then it's still possible it will be a net gain... the reason this team is worse is not because we lost talent in Bonzi and Rasheed but because we consolidated our much of our talent into a player (SAR) who's only able to play the same position as our other best player (ZR).

Ed O.


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## Sambonius (May 21, 2003)

How surprising? Ed O and Nathan have absolutely ruined my thread by going completely off topic, Thanks guys!


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## MAS RipCity (Feb 22, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>TheoSaysNo</b>!
> For all the people who are saying we won't make the playoffs:
> 
> I hope your wrong.
> If you are, I won't let you forget.:|


Matt, hopefully that Laker game we got tickets too,still has some meaning to it when we go


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## tlong (Jan 6, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Ed O</b>!
> 
> 
> Theo makes this team better than this team with Dale starting. Rasheed and Bonzi make this team better than SAR and Theo do.
> ...


Theo makes the team better because he is a great shot blocker...something the Blazers have not had in years. He allows his teammates to gamble on defense and apply more pressure on the perimeter. Bonzi and Sheed were not interested in playing defense consistently while they were here this year. The Blazers need a reliable and consistent outside threat. Neither Bonzi nor Rasheed could be considered that. The team is in MUCH better shape now than if they had not traded Bonzi and Sheed.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>tlong</b>!
> 
> The team is in MUCH better shape now than if they had not traded Bonzi and Sheed.


Rasheed could be considered a consistent outside threat. Rasheed is also a better on-ball defender than Theo.

Theo blocks shots, and does it well, and helps make up for the mistakes of his teammates. He's a zero at the offensive end, though, and between Bonzi and Rasheed I think they made the team considerably better than Theo and (in a reduced role) SAR do.

As I mentioned, this time next year Portland might be better than they would have been had they kept Bonzi and Rasheed, so I'm not just taking this as another opportunity to whine about the trades... and it's also possible that the team is in "better shape" now because of that potential future improvement. As far as making the playoffs _this year_, though, I think the Wells and Rasheed deals (and perhaps the Miles trade, which I like more for the long run than the other two) hurt the team's playoff chances.

Ed O.


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## MAS RipCity (Feb 22, 2003)

Theo + SAR(and waht he can bring for us in trade value + picks) >>>>>>>>>> Sheed + Bonzi

Bonzi gave us crap this year,noting. Sheed was a solid one on on defender that I sorely miss,but I love Theo's blocks more, they spark the team and the crowd and more then not lead to someone throwing a lob to Dmiles on the break.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>MAS RipCity</b>!
> Theo + SAR(and waht he can bring for us in trade value + picks) >>>>>>>>>> Sheed + Bonzi


How are the picks or whatever SAR is going to bring help get us into the playoffs _this year_? They obviously won't. And since they won't, your point doesn't address my assertion that the trades hurt our playoff chances this year.

And you don't think that Bonzi would be doing a better job at the 2 guard than Derek Anderson has been? Bonzi was totally blowing chunks to start the season, and was shooting 38.9% from the floor. DA? He's shooting 36.6%.

Bonzi's shooting 33.9% from 3's in Memphis. DA? He's shooting 29.5%.

Bonzi hasn't exactly been an all-star this season, and he would not have been had he stayed in PDX, but he's been better this year than DA and I think he would have been better in Portland than DA's been.

Ed O.


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## MAS RipCity (Feb 22, 2003)

I'd still take Theo and SAr over Bonzi and Sheed THIS YEAR.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>MAS RipCity</b>!
> I'd still take Theo and SAr over Bonzi and Sheed THIS YEAR.


Why? SAR is barely playing. Rasheed's better than Theo. Bonzi is better than DA.

Other than pure stubborness, I don't see a reason that the team has been better off in terms of making the playoffs than they would have been had they not made those two deals.

Ed O.


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## MAS RipCity (Feb 22, 2003)

Bonzi is better then DA,but in reality who isn't? Sheed is better then Theo but THeo makes the team overall better...and SAR is a nice person to bring off of the bench,instant offense,much better then Bonzi. I love the future we have,even if you dont think it helped us this year,you have to admit we are almost set for the future with what we have got going.


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## kaydow (Apr 6, 2004)

No way would Portland be the #6 seed by keeping Sheed and Bonzi. Right now Dallas is #6 at 48-28. Portland started off 16-23 with Sheed. That means they would needed to go 32-5 to be where Dallas is!! Both trades were good trades. The Sheed to Atlanta deal definately made the Blazers better if only for what Ratliff has done for their defense. And the Bonzi deal, well who knew at the time Memphis was gonna play like they have? It looked like we were getting a lottery pick for Bonzi. The fact that we didn't is okay--it's still addition by subtraction with that guy. If Portland keeps Wells & Wallance instead of trading them, they finish with less than 40 wins or less, EASY!!


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## Blazerfan024 (Aug 15, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>MAS RipCity</b>!
> Bonzi is better then DA,but in reality who isn't? Sheed is better then Theo but THeo makes the team overall better...and SAR is a nice person to bring off of the bench,instant offense,much better then Bonzi. I love the future we have,even if you dont think it helped us this year,you have to admit we are almost set for the future with what we have got going.


Im sorry but Theo does not make the team better OVERALL , he clogs the middle and gets blocks thats IT, Sheed gave us much more, from the outside inside and his D was MUCH BETTER also he opened up the middle for zach and gave us more scoring oppurtunitys. 

Dont get me wrong I love theo and wish we could have had him with sheed but THEO is a Shot blocker thats it !


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## hasoos (Jan 3, 2003)

*I'm sure glad*

That people can post the same opinions over and over. At a certain point you need to agree to disagree. All of the above are conjecture and opinions, and none of them are absolutely provable, because they are theories. Now, how about maybe talking about who you would draft, with the theory being that we are out of the playoffs (we are not yet, but theorize the situation)...


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

*Re: I'm sure glad*



> Originally posted by <b>hasoos</b>!
> Now, how about maybe talking about who you would draft, with the theory being that we are out of the playoffs (we are not yet, but theorize the situation)...


We're already talking about that in another thread.

If we're going to limit ourselves (a) to non-conjecture/spectulation, and (b) only original ideas, emotions, or opinions, then this is going to be one sparsely populated board.

The fact is that trades and deals can ALWAYS be reevaluated based on how teams and players have done since the trade was last discussed. Bonzi's playing worse now than he was earlier for the Grizzlies; Portland's playing better since they got Theo... for us to simply stop talking about stuff because we've already gone over it before seems a strange way to approach life.

Ed O.


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## HOWIE (Dec 30, 2002)

*Re: Re: I'm sure glad*



> Originally posted by <b>Ed O</b>!
> 
> 
> We're already talking about that in another thread.
> ...


Your right Ed, I still think that Jerry Stackhouse would have been better with Rasheed Wallace than that Bonzi Wells :grinning:


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

I must have clicked on a different thread than I thought....I was pretty sure this thread was about who we should draft.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Schilly</b>!
> I must have clicked on a different thread than I thought....I was pretty sure this thread was about who we should draft.


This thread has as part of its title, and its reason for being, the Blazers being out of the playoff race. Discussion about whether we're out, and WHY we're out, seems entirely reasonable.

Ed O.


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Ed O</b>!
> 
> 
> This thread has as part of its title, and its reason for being, the Blazers being out of the playoff race. Discussion about whether we're out, and WHY we're out, seems entirely reasonable.
> ...


Ok.

We may not be out, but odds are severely against us.

Why? Because we have a worse record than 9 other teams in the Western Conference.


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## Kmurph (May 7, 2003)

> No way would Portland be the #6 seed by keeping Sheed and Bonzi. Right now Dallas is #6 at 48-28. Portland started off 16-23 with Sheed. That means they would needed to go 32-5 to be where Dallas is!




Did everyone else MISS this point? If his numbers are accurate their is absolutely NO way we could have made #6. IF we had kept Bonzi & Sheed we would be right about where we are now, #8 or out of the playoffs :sour: Big deal, certainly nothing to get excited about, and Sheed would be walking for nothing. Unless you thought he would somehow cooperate with mgmt and work a S & T to NY, for whom, I have no idea. Oh yeah, and the fan\media bashing would be still be going full tilt. What a great atmosphere. :uhoh:


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Kmurph</b>!
> 
> Did everyone else MISS this point? If his numbers are accurate their is absolutely NO way we could have made #6.


At the time of the Bonzi trade, Portland was 8-7 and Memphis was 8-8. Portland had beaten Memphis rather soundly in their only head-to-head matchup.

Who's had more injuries since then than Portland, and who's currently the 5th seed? 

Memphis and Memphis.

It's not _likely_ that Portland would be sitting at the 6th seed right now if they hadn't made the moves they did, but it's certainly more likely than "absolutely NO way". 

Ed O.


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## TP3 (Jan 26, 2003)

OK...OK...EdO...YOU'RE RIGHT! YOU WIN! WE ALL AGREE WITH YOU! Dude, you don't have to keep selling it. We all know the trades were horrible for the Blazers, we all were much happier before the trades, the team was much more fun to watch and definitely much more consistent.

WE AGREE WITH YOU, YOU'RE THE WINNER!


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>TP3</b>!
> OK...OK...EdO...YOU'RE RIGHT! YOU WIN! WE ALL AGREE WITH YOU! Dude, you don't have to keep selling it. We all know the trades were horrible for the Blazers, we all were much happier before the trades, the team was much more fun to watch and definitely much more consistent.
> 
> WE AGREE WITH YOU, YOU'RE THE WINNER!


Nice post. What it lacks in content and value it ALMOST makes up for in sarcasm. Since you seem to disagree with me, rather that stating why you're right, which might *gasp* include facts, you have some sort of pseudo belly-exposure in an effort to have to avoid more posts from me on the subject.

Unfortunately, you're misrepresenting what I'm arguing. Please re-read my statements in this thread if you want to comment on them.

Ed O.


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## ProudBFan (Apr 29, 2003)

Draft and trade talk makes my head hurt.

PBF


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## tlong (Jan 6, 2003)

Ed,

I believe you must consider intangilbles when evaluating the trades of Bonzi and Sheed. Unfortunately these are difficult, if not impossible, to measure. In my opinion the team was not playing with much focus prior to the trades...especially the Bonzi trade. While both players are certainly talented I believe their attitudes negatively impacted the team. Virtually everyone agrees that Theo and SAR are great team guys with great attitudes. Darius seems to be a pretty good guy as well. I believe the trades have positively affected the chemistry of the team. I also don't think the Blazers would have anywhere near the record they do had they not made the trades. They would be far below .500.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>tlong</b>!
> 
> I also don't think the Blazers would have anywhere near the record they do had they not made the trades. They would be far below .500.


I hear what you're saying, but the worst stretch of basketball Portland played ALL SEASON was right after trading Bonzi. They went 8-16. They had a tough stretch of schedule, for sure, but they've had other tough stretches throughout the course of the season and have had nowhere near that type of difficulty the rest of the year.

That seems to say to me that the intangibles actually got worse after the Wells trade. It's certainly possible that it was part of a healing process or whatever, and the intanglibes started to get better... in fact, before the Rasheed trade the team went 7-2 and were poised to continue winning.

Of course, after the Rasheed Wallace trade the team started struggling again, going 6-8 in the next 14 games before rebounding to 9-4 so far to end the year.

Whether someone thinks the team is better in the long run after the two deals (I am not convinced of that yet, but think it's very possible) or even better now than it was at the beginning of the season (I do not, but I accept others might disagree), I find it hard to believe that people can ignore the combined 14-24 the team went immediately following the Bonzi and Rasheed trades when they look at the team and think the team has a better record because of the trades.

Ed O.


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## PTB_loyalist (Apr 3, 2004)

Just throwing some interesting information out there.

*When the Houston Rockets got the 1st overral pick ( who turned out to be Yao) almost three years ago they finshed 10th in the western conference, the Blazers are almost in the same position maybe we can get the frist overral pick? it's happend before* 

would'nt that be nice ^


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## dkap (May 13, 2003)

Different lottery rules back then.

Dan


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>dkap</b>!
> Different lottery rules back then.
> 
> Dan


didnt they change the rules partially based on that fluke draft?


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## dkap (May 13, 2003)

Possibly, but it might have also been partially due to S.A. and Orlando. I'm not sure I ever saw an official explanation as to the changes.

Dan


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

We were not 16-23 with Bonzi. And we were 23-23 with Sheed this year.

We could have EASILY won 50 if Bonzi and Sheed were never traded.


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## Nightfly (Sep 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>NathanLane</b>!
> We were not 16-23 with Bonzi. And we were 23-23 with Sheed this year.
> 
> We could have EASILY won 50 if Bonzi and Sheed were never traded.


I doubt it for some reason.


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## Kmurph (May 7, 2003)

> And we were 23-23 with Sheed this year.We could have EASILY won 50 if Bonzi and Sheed were never traded.


That would have meant going 27 & 9 the rest of the way out...um :uhoh: not likely. Talk about wishful thinking.

Regardless it was a great win tonight, quite unexpected. However it is only ONE of several tough games (2 against @\vs San Antonio, @ Denver, vs Lakers (revenge game) at home, and @ GS tomorrow on a back to back, that we must win most of to have a chance to make it into playoffs.


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## Webster's Dictionary (Feb 26, 2004)

Something no one talks about when we discuss the trades is chemestry. Pretty much everyone on the team liked Sheed, but he was a distraction with his Blazer future up in the air. No body really liked Bonzi all that well.

Bottom line, now this team is gelling, totally contrary to what was going on before. If they did have chemistry before, they never talked about it. Except maybe the fact the Damon and Sheed got caught smoking weed together. (there's some love)

Now you hear people like D Miles saying I've fallen in love with my team mates and the city. Damon saying there's a closeness in the locker room he hasn't felt in a long time. SAR saying guys accepted us with open arms and there is deffinately a strong bond now.

And now these bonds and more familiarity are translating into wins. We beat Minny twice, Sac once, LA once. It could be argued whether we would be in a better spot this year if we had kept Bonzi and Sheed. I, personally don't believe that we would be any better off with Bonzi and Sheed, but this is a team built for the future, and I think next year we will again be over 50 wins in a season and be one of the top three seeds for the playoffs.


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

wrong KMurph. we were 23-23 in the games Sheed played. But there were other games in there. PLUS, Bonzi only played about 17 games. We were 9-8 before Bonzi trade, right? So we would have had to go 41-24 the rest of the way- NOT IMPOSSIBLE AT ALL.


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## Kmurph (May 7, 2003)

I see, so if we had only kept Bonzi we would have won 50 games.... :uhoh: um...yeah...sure. 

BTW, never said impossible, just pretty damm unlikely.


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

we won 50 last year. this year, we lost Pip and Sabonis, but Pip missed a lot of last year anyway, and this year we had a much improved Zach


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