# Official bulls vs cavs game 02/18/2003



## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

I cannot believe that no one had started this yet.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

GAWD, its hard to get excited for the Bulls/Cavs game...



I'll predict a win. Can't be bothered to try and estimate a score.



The only excitement I can generate for myself here is that I'm looking forward to seeing who dresses for tonight's game...

Will there be a sudden outbreak of 48-hour viruses? Jamal and E-Rob in matching sweaters? (BAH! Picture that...Do Not Adjust Your Sets. There Is Nothing Wrong With Your Transmission). Trenton flipping through the real estate section of the Miami Herald? D-Bags...well, I guess there's not much he could do to tip off something happening.


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## TwinkieTowers (Jul 16, 2002)

Bulls win, and Chandler gets the Bulls' second triple double of the season.

14 points, 20 rebounds, and 10 blocks


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## BamaBull (Jun 24, 2002)

*I feel your pain....*



> Originally posted by <b>TomBoerwinkle#1</b>!
> GAWD, its hard to get excited for the Bulls/Cavs game...
> 
> 
> ...



SO MUCH of it I feel that I copied your signature...hope you do not mind....Bulls 100, Cavs 90


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

OT: Like the quote in your sig, Twinkie.

I've always been a huge MJ fan, but really, what he should have said is "There is no 'I' in Team...but there is a 'ME' in team." That about sums it up.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

Bama, at last you know freedom.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

stats for tonights game are below. 

Cleveland. 10-43 3-14 in div. 7-18 at home. Have lost 3 in a row. 

Bulls, 18-35. 7-12 in div. 2-27 on the road. Won 1 in a row. Both teams are 2-8 last 10 games.

Chandler in the last three games:

17.3 ppg 15.3 reb. 5.33 blocks in 33 min a game. 

bulls are 88-63 all time. (35-39)@ Cleveland

Cavs shoot 41% give up.454%! Shoot .335% inthrees, give up . .359% They out rebound their opp, by 1. 90.5 to 100.8!! Give up over 10 pts more a game!! 


They won the first game 111-101. Rose 37 pts. Marshall 20. Chandler, 19 min, 9 pts 3 reb. Curry, 14 min. 7 pts 4 rebounds. Williams, 8 pts 9 assists. Crawford, 2 pts 6 minutes!!! Fizer DNP. 

Miles DNP Wagner 29 pts. Davis 26, Boozer 26 and 8 boards. 

They out rebounded us by *18 rebounds* and made 7 more fts than we did. 


Game #2. next night. 

We won 112-104. We let a team that averages 90 pts a game score over 100 twice. 

We out reounded them by 4. Chandle and curry about the same as the last game. Williams 14 hassell 15. Rose and Marshall 27 and 20. Williams 1 t/o. Crawford 7 pts in 16 minutes. 

Wagner 18, davis, 27, illgaus. 28, boozer, 1. 

Both teams shot over 50% bulls almost 57%.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

Does anyone know for a fact who is gonna start tonite? I do think Tyson will have another good game, and slowly but surely iam seeing Jay Williams improving so he might have a pretty good game.


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## Future (Jul 24, 2002)

As long as Jay Will has to play with Crawford backing him up, we will never see the potential. Once Jay Will gets on a roll (If it happens), it'll be time for Crawford to come in, which is one reason why I would like to see a trade of Crawford if the Bulls are committed to Jay Will.

Anyways, I predict a Bulls win. Chandler will have a good game against the Cavs lineup. He'll do a good job on Z defensively.

Bulls: 83
Cavs: 74


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## ChiBullsFan (May 30, 2002)

For the record, if Chandler produces another double double, I think he has cemented major minutes (30+) for the rest of the season.

This means he's about to BLOW UP.

I'm getting excited and expecting big things from him next year...


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ChiBullsFan</b>!
> I'm getting excited and expecting big things from him next year...


Easy now, son. Sounds to me like you may have something you need to get off your chest on the Bullsaholics support thread!


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## THE'clip'SHOW (Sep 24, 2002)

Is it gonna be on WGN, my stupid Directv is in storage and the NBA league pass money is non-refundable. :upset:


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

Dont look for cleveland to get a big time coach anytime soon. In pregame they said, Whitman, Lucas and fretello is still being paid.


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## airety (Oct 29, 2002)

Bulls will win---no 48 hour bugs today if anyones gonna be traded... that happens tommorow night.


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## ryzmah (Aug 3, 2002)

Bulls looking good early - going to the glass, cutting off passing lanes, hurrying down court.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

nice start by bulls. 10-4.


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## Future (Jul 24, 2002)

Bulls up 10-4 right now. They are playin well. Jay Will is really playing well right now. He's doing great dishing on fast breaks.... I like it.

Chandler is boxing out and rebounding. E-Rob is dunking on fast breaks and hitting jumpers. 

Hope they keep it up.


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## Future (Jul 24, 2002)

Jalen is pulling a Jalen. He just got us a technical with his complaining. 

EJECT EM!! I wanna see how we do without his ***.....


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## THE'clip'SHOW (Sep 24, 2002)

Im not watching the game, but why did they sub miles already?


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>THE'clip'SHOW</b>!
> Im not watching the game, but why did they sub miles already?


Yes.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

Chandler in foul trouble.


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## THE'clip'SHOW (Sep 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>truebluefan</b>!
> 
> 
> Yes.


Why? thats what I meant, was he playing horribly to be pulled 3 minutes in?


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## unBULLievable (Dec 13, 2002)

*Chandler*

6 minutes

4 points
3 rebounds

2 fouls:upset:


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>THE'clip'SHOW</b>!
> 
> 
> Why? thats what I meant, was he playing horribly to be pulled 3 minutes in?


He went to locker room. Just now came back out.


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## Future (Jul 24, 2002)

This is what I want Jay Williams to do more. I want to see him penetrate and pull up for a mid-jumper. The best way to get out of a shooting funk is to shoot closer. It's all moot anyways, Jamal will be back in in around 4 or 5 minutes.


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## ryzmah (Aug 3, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>THE'clip'SHOW</b>!
> 
> 
> Why? thats what I meant, was he playing horribly to be pulled 3 minutes in?


I think he was supposed to be defending E-Rob, if so he was getting beat down court each time.


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## ryzmah (Aug 3, 2002)

Jay is really having a nice quarter now, taking advantage of his speed.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

Curry scores so easily!! 

Nice shot by Jay


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## Future (Jul 24, 2002)

Oh my God. This is just beautiful. Jay Williams hitting shots, penetrating and dishing. Chandler was playing well. Curry comes in and scores quick points. He's getting rebounds too. 

E-Rob playing great. Hitting shots and keeping Ricky Davis in tact. Oh man!!

Oh man, oh man, this is beautiful to watch.

Its against the Cavs, but oh is it beautiful.


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## unBULLievable (Dec 13, 2002)

*Rose has only taken*

4 shots...Hope he passes more&more to Eddy,Tyson&Jay


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## unBULLievable (Dec 13, 2002)

aaaah....those rebounds


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

not much defense.


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## Future (Jul 24, 2002)

I really hope Jay Will doesn't have to come out because he is playing a phenomenal game right now.


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## TwinkieTowers (Jul 16, 2002)

39 points?!?!?!?

They gotta be kiddin' me!


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## ryzmah (Aug 3, 2002)

39-27 Bulls at the end of the first quarter. Just doing a great job on offense and pushing the tempo. Defense has been pretty good at stopping penetration, but Z and Boozer have been left open on the offensive boards because of the help. Still a great way to start the game.


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## Lizzy (May 28, 2002)

Go E-Rob!!!


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## TwinkieTowers (Jul 16, 2002)

Bulls on pace to score 156 points tonight


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## TwinkieTowers (Jul 16, 2002)

Go J-Will!

Keep on doing what you're doing, because I can't see or listen to what is going on.


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## Bulls4Life (Nov 13, 2002)

Well, this is where Jalen throws up 10 in a row.


if he's hitting this will be a blowout, if not we may have another overtime loss!


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## Future (Jul 24, 2002)

JC in. This is exactly why Crawford needs to be traded. Jay Will is on the verge of a breakout game that everyone has been crying for, and he will be out for a quarter.

Sad.... :sigh:


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## TwinkieTowers (Jul 16, 2002)

According to the box score he seems to be passing now that he sees his shot isn't exactly falling much.


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## airety (Oct 29, 2002)

Don't bash Crawford--- if he wasn't here, Brunson would be in. I think Cartwright is just givin JWill a breather, he was playing excellent.

Offensively, we just saw a championship quarter. Too bad we can't get that effort every quarter, every game!!


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## TwinkieTowers (Jul 16, 2002)

I just hope the Bulls don't let up like that one game against the Cavs.


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## Bulls4Life (Nov 13, 2002)

Eddy is starting to play like he has a clue!


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## TwinkieTowers (Jul 16, 2002)

Bulls will settle down eventually; they're 63.3% from the field


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## Lizzy (May 28, 2002)

Even on espn gamecast - Trenton Hassell pisses me off


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## TwinkieTowers (Jul 16, 2002)

Looks like Hassell doesn't know he has the ball, or at least used to have the ball.


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## ryzmah (Aug 3, 2002)

Bulls need to change something defensively - Crawford is not going to be able to stick with Wagner.


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## TwinkieTowers (Jul 16, 2002)

Ricky "Oh shucks!" Davis seems to have a lot of steal -- four to be exact.


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## unBULLievable (Dec 13, 2002)

*There goes our....*

lead

Bulls up 45-38


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## TwinkieTowers (Jul 16, 2002)

Bye bye Crawford. Looks like you can't hit a shot tonight.


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## unBULLievable (Dec 13, 2002)

*Look at it now....*

why didn't they give the ball to Eddy in the 2nd quarter..WHY????


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## TwinkieTowers (Jul 16, 2002)

Now Bulls on pace to score 110.


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## Chops (May 30, 2002)

Hassell strikes again...


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## ryzmah (Aug 3, 2002)

Need to get E-Rob back in there. He makes things happen on the defensive end, and is more useful than Hassell on the offensive end too.


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## THE'clip'SHOW (Sep 24, 2002)

who is gaurding Darius, and who is he gaurding?


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## TwinkieTowers (Jul 16, 2002)

How does a center steal the ball from a shooting guard?!?!?!

Oh yeah, it's Trenton Hassell.


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## Lizzy (May 28, 2002)

Yet - Hassell will play the whole quarter. :devil:


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## ryzmah (Aug 3, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>THE'clip'SHOW</b>!
> who is gaurding Darius, and who is he gaurding?


I think they've had Jalen on him (E-Rob/Hassell on Davis), but I'm not sure if he's been covering E-Rob/Hassell or Jalen.


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## Lizzy (May 28, 2002)

Come back with Williams and E-Rob, Bill. Prove me wrong!


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## TwinkieTowers (Jul 16, 2002)

Cartwright needs to pull off a Capital One and get NO HASSELL.


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## unBULLievable (Dec 13, 2002)

Hassell had his ball stolen 3 times already..WHEN IS THIS BUM COAgoing to realise it...Give ERob the majority of minutes...


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## ryzmah (Aug 3, 2002)

The team just pushes the ball up court much better with Jay and Robinson in the game, even when Jay isn't the one with the ball. Right now we really have to try to outrun them - Cavs are playing Mihm and Z at the same time.


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## TwinkieTowers (Jul 16, 2002)

Just when I was about to complement J-Will's free throw shooting...


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## Future (Jul 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>airety</b>!
> Don't bash Crawford--- if he wasn't here, Brunson would be in. I think Cartwright is just givin JWill a breather, he was playing excellent.
> 
> Offensively, we just saw a championship quarter. Too bad we can't get that effort every quarter, every game!!


I'm not bashing Crawford. I'm just saying how are we supposed to get out the best of Jay Williams when he has to sit most of the quarter after playing very well. True, Brunson would be in, but he woudn't mandate minutes Crawford gets.


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## TwinkieTowers (Jul 16, 2002)

From what I'm seeing on Yahoo! Sports boxscore, J-Will is doing the right thing: shooting the midrange shot, and not roaming the three area, where he's been struggling.


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## unBULLievable (Dec 13, 2002)

*Rose...*

3-10 FG :no:


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## Lizzy (May 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Future</b>!
> 
> 
> I'm not bashing Crawford. I'm just saying how are we supposed to get out the best of Jay Williams when he has to sit most of the quarter after playing very well. True, Brunson would be in, but he woudn't mandate minutes Crawford gets.



I agree. Brunson knows his role where Crawford wants big minutes.


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## TwinkieTowers (Jul 16, 2002)

Chandler having foul trouble, but Curry seems to picking up the slack.


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## Lizzy (May 28, 2002)

Did he put in Baxter for Tyson and not Eddy???

I hate BC.


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## TwinkieTowers (Jul 16, 2002)

Now that the Bulls actually have a lead on the road, the one issue Cartwright needs to address the team is defensive rebounding. The Cavs are shooting much worse than the Bulls, but are only eight points behind because they've been able to get the offensive rebound.


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## unBULLievable (Dec 13, 2002)

ERob having a great game tonight after a long long time


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

the bulls have given up 15 def. rebounds! If it wasnt for that it could be a route.


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## TwinkieTowers (Jul 16, 2002)

Chandler seems to be on his way to a big game, just stay out of foul trouble.


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## Sangha (Jul 24, 2002)

Chandler scored 6 points in about a minute


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## Future (Jul 24, 2002)

Wooooooo!!!!! Did you see that double pump dunk by E-Rob!!!?

Forget Eddie Jones, give E-Rob some time and he can be a player. All you gotta do is stop splitting his minutes with Hassell!!!


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## DaFuture (Nov 5, 2002)

*Could this be the turning point*

with our kids, probably not it is still the Cavs.


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## DaFuture (Nov 5, 2002)

*Is anyone playing D*

Boozer should never get an alley-oop dunk he cant jump.


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## The Truth (Jul 22, 2002)

Boozer jumps a lot better than you may remember. 

He lost a ton of weight in the offseason, and although he isn't a great leaper, he's much better than he used to be.


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## TwinkieTowers (Jul 16, 2002)

Turning points can happen anytime. J-Rich's turning point last year was the Rookie Challenge and the Slam Dunk contest.

A game against Cleveland may just help.


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## unBULLievable (Dec 13, 2002)

Boozer is killing us again...the game is not over cause it looks like some Bulls players and Miles think it's done....


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## TwinkieTowers (Jul 16, 2002)

Well, Chandler's turning point was not waking up on time for practice.


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## unBULLievable (Dec 13, 2002)

*We've been outrebounded...*

so far 39-25


UNACCEPTABLE:upset: :upset:


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## TwinkieTowers (Jul 16, 2002)

Unacceptable, but the Bulls are winning. I'd rather win in points than in rebounds, but give credit for the whole team hitting shots.


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## ryzmah (Aug 3, 2002)

Not a strong quarter, but Bulls still up by 10.


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## TwinkieTowers (Jul 16, 2002)

The Bulls have 86 after three quarters. With the pace I mentioned, they should have scored that many by the beginning of the third.


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## unBULLievable (Dec 13, 2002)

Bulls up 86-76 at the end of the 3rd quarter!!!!

GO BULLS!!!!!
GO get that 3rd road win and 19th overall!!!!!


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## ChiBullsFan (May 30, 2002)

Hmmm, interesting that Jay only has 3 assists thus far. I can count at least 4 instances where he's made a good look, but his man got fouled around the basket and shot FTs. There should be a stat for assists like that...

Oh and BTW, how 'bout them Dukies tonight????

JWill and Boozer are dominating tonight. C'mon, let's hear it Dukie haters!!!!


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## TwinkieTowers (Jul 16, 2002)

Yeah if there was stat for that, Kidd would probably have 20 assists.


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## The Truth (Jul 22, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ChiBullsFan</b>!
> Hmmm, interesting that Jay only has 3 assists thus far. I can count at least 4 instances where he's made a good look, but his man got fouled around the basket and shot FTs. There should be a stat for assists like that...



Yeah, I've definitely noticed that tonight. Sadly, that's the way its been most of the year for Jay, especially when he was getting most of his pt with Hassell.


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## Chops (May 30, 2002)

Who cares about Duke? This is the NBA.


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## ryzmah (Aug 3, 2002)

Hoiberg, Hassell, Crawford all in to start the quarter. I would like Hoiberg to take Hassell's minutes (or the ones E-Rob doesn't take) - even if he doesn't step up the offense will still run smoothly.


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## TwinkieTowers (Jul 16, 2002)

Is smoke a Blount in the game now?


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## DaFuture (Nov 5, 2002)

*Maryland goes for 3/4*



> Originally posted by <b>ChiBullsFan</b>!
> Hmmm, interesting that Jay only has 3 assists thus far. I can count at least 4 instances where he's made a good look, but his man got fouled around the basket and shot FTs. There should be a stat for assists like that...
> 
> Oh and BTW, how 'bout them Dukies tonight????
> ...


against Duke this week prepare to weep Dukies, bow to your masters.HAHAHAHAHAHA:gbanana: :wbanana: :cbanana: :vbanana: :banana: :devil2: :rocket:


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## Chops (May 30, 2002)

Crawford
Hassell
Hoiberg
Baxter
Curry


:no:


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## TwinkieTowers (Jul 16, 2002)

With every little mistake Crawford makes, it makes me want to cringe and have Williams back in the game.


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## DaFuture (Nov 5, 2002)

*Its a Duke Disease.*



> Originally posted by <b>KC</b>!
> Who cares about Duke? This is the NBA.


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## TwinkieTowers (Jul 16, 2002)

With so many people wearing wife-beaters, does Jalen Rose wear world-beaters, since that seems to be his favorite word when it comes to basketball?


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## unBULLievable (Dec 13, 2002)

They should feed the ball to Curry more&more....
What's up with Jamal????He looks to be distracted...Is it the rumors?/


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## ryzmah (Aug 3, 2002)

Really don't like seeing the whole bench in at once. Baxter and Hoiberg can fill in a spot and help out a lot if everyone else on the court is a starter, but they can't be counted on to score at all unless it's a putback. Crawford might be able to do more usually, but he certainly can't tonight. The way they are playing tonight the bulls really need two or three of Jay, Rose, Eddy, Marshall, and Tyson on the court at all times.


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## TwinkieTowers (Jul 16, 2002)

Bye bye Hassell. Time to go back to Pop-a-Shot


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## unBULLievable (Dec 13, 2002)

Speaking of feeding....Curry will drink Gatorade now cause Bill took him out..


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## ChiBullsFan (May 30, 2002)

Jamal? Distracted? Where are the critics who whined about Jay "letting the pressure get to him"? Guess it doesn't apply to Jamal for some reason...

But to answer the question, no I don't think Jamal's distracted. I do believe it's that he just sucks...:no:


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## TwinkieTowers (Jul 16, 2002)

Marshall is having an oddly disappointing game. I think it's time to put Chandler and Curry together.


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## unBULLievable (Dec 13, 2002)

Donyell has been having foul trouble latley....How about putting Curry&Chandler together Bill?


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## unBULLievable (Dec 13, 2002)

No kidding Bulls might lose this one


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## TwinkieTowers (Jul 16, 2002)

This is where the Bulls collapse!!!! Bwahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## DaFuture (Nov 5, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>unBULLievable</b>!
> Donyell has been having foul trouble latley....How about putting Curry&Chandler together Bill?



So they can give up alley oops to Boozer


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## TwinkieTowers (Jul 16, 2002)

Finally, J-Will's back in!


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## ChiBullsFan (May 30, 2002)

On a side note: I think Wennington popped a few extra pain killers for his back today, cuz man is he acting loopy!

"AMARR STOOODEMEER"


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## Bullsmaniac (Jun 17, 2002)

Here we go again, same ole story.
5 point lead, Jalen is hogging the ball, trying to be the savior and shooting bricks. No more inside game! We lose!


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## DaFuture (Nov 5, 2002)

*Why do the Cavs suck*

they have more talent than our 99 team.


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## TwinkieTowers (Jul 16, 2002)

because they have Davis and Wagner. incompatible


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## ChiBullsFan (May 30, 2002)

bad coaching and too much youth.


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## TwinkieTowers (Jul 16, 2002)

If Chandler fouls out, I hope BC doesn't put in Blount!:uhoh:


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## DaFuture (Nov 5, 2002)

*Is it really?*

Wagner is a scorer but not an elite one like Davis is, is that not the same thing people are screamig for with the Jones trade?


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## Future (Jul 24, 2002)

You gotta be kidding me Rose... why don't you take another fadeaway jumper over a double team.

God Damn, the life of a Bulls fan... always getting your hopes up.


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## unBULLievable (Dec 13, 2002)

We are going to lose ..I can't believe this


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## DaFuture (Nov 5, 2002)

*Why are Marshall and Chandler being schooled*

buy a marginal basketball player in Boozer. Is it possible a succesful Dukie in the NBA????No it cant be....


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## TwinkieTowers (Jul 16, 2002)

YEA!!!!!!!!!!! We're going to lose!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(Trying to not let the potential letdown get to me.)


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## ryzmah (Aug 3, 2002)

Is there any reason that Hassell is still in the game .... never mind.


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## Future (Jul 24, 2002)

and why the hell has hassell been in so long... bring back Eddie...

:nonono:


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## TwinkieTowers (Jul 16, 2002)

Why is Hassell still in there?


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

97-92 bulls


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## TwinkieTowers (Jul 16, 2002)

Whew E-Rob in!


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## ryzmah (Aug 3, 2002)

Great pass by Jay. 99 - 93 bulls with about 3 minutes left.


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## The Krakken (Jul 17, 2002)

20 Rebound advantage on the glass...R U KIDDING ME????


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## TwinkieTowers (Jul 16, 2002)

Looks like Yahoo! is going no-show near the end of the game again!


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## DaFuture (Nov 5, 2002)

*Jay hita ft*

oh myy god we just might win:grinning:


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## unBULLievable (Dec 13, 2002)

Bulls -Cavs the classic derby!!!!


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## TwinkieTowers (Jul 16, 2002)

But no MJ or Craig Ehlo!


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## The 6ft Hurdle (Jan 25, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>ChiBullsFan</b>!
> Jamal? Distracted? Where are the critics who whined about Jay "letting the pressure get to him"? Guess it doesn't apply to Jamal for some reason...
> 
> But to answer the question, no I don't think Jamal's distracted. I do believe it's that he just sucks...:no: [/QUOTE
> ...


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## ryzmah (Aug 3, 2002)

Donyell just can't handle boozer - can't stop him from getting to the offensive boards and isn't strong enough to defend him.


*Great follow by Tyson!!*


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## Future (Jul 24, 2002)

:nonono:


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## TwinkieTowers (Jul 16, 2002)

I don't bite nails.


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## Future (Jul 24, 2002)

Tyson just got Freakin huge on that play. Surprised they didn't go to Jalen for a miss.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

Big shot by tyson!!!!!!!!!!!


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## TwinkieTowers (Jul 16, 2002)

One more board for Tyson for a double double. C'mon, Cleveland! Miss!


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## DaFuture (Nov 5, 2002)

*Chandler for MVP*

what a dunk!!!


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## Bullsmaniac (Jun 17, 2002)

Don't even tell me this is going to overtime!


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## unBULLievable (Dec 13, 2002)

*Tyson!!!!!!*

20 points 9 rebounds.....though his rebounds should've been 19 

Bulls up 105-101

PS:Marshall is stinking it up offensivley&defensivley
Hope he plays tomorrow against Philly....BETTER!!!!


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## ryzmah (Aug 3, 2002)

Bulls win on the road!


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## DaFuture (Nov 5, 2002)

*If Jalen didnt hit his ft*

we would have gotten an L.


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## Future (Jul 24, 2002)

It's a win!! A road win!!! Make it a 3 game winning streak and beat philly.

Chandler was huge...


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## TwinkieTowers (Jul 16, 2002)

Yea!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No double double for Chandler, though. HE SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## ryzmah (Aug 3, 2002)

Tyson and Jay both had great games, and Eddy was very good off the bench. Good game by E-Rob too, and Rose was good for most of the game although there were some frustration moments. Marshall was just off tonight - he may have had double digit rebounds but he needed to get a lot more, as Tyson/Eddy were often stuck out near the free throw line covering Z or going for help defense.


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## The Krakken (Jul 17, 2002)

Eddy Curry--12pts 5 rebs, in 14 minutes.

Was his D horrible tonight or something? That is awefully productive for only 14 minutes.....


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## unBULLievable (Dec 13, 2002)

Great game by JWILL TYSON ROSE

Bring it on to Philly boys....Show them that Chicago kicks Azzzzzz


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## TwinkieTowers (Jul 16, 2002)

The Bulls won despite "off" games by our two goto guys. It may only be Cleveland, but hey, it was on the road!


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

Jay Williams O finally showed up.

And Tyson's closing dunk was HUGE. Finally getting the meaningful minutes to close!!!

A win's a win. We'll take it


VD


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## The Krakken (Jul 17, 2002)

Is it just me, or was Jay NOTICABLY better than Dejuan tonight. I distinctly remember a certain poster a few months agon ribbin on Jay, and stabbing at this board for supporting him vs Dejaun.

Wonder whatever happened to him???


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## ryzmah (Aug 3, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>The Krakken</b>!
> Eddy Curry--12pts 5 rebs, in 14 minutes.
> 
> Was his D horrible tonight or something? That is awefully productive for only 14 minutes.....


Tyson had a fantastic game and Bill has some aversion to playing the two together, so Eddy was sitting when Tyson was on the court. Hopefully we'll see them playing together more, although I'm not complaining too much because we've moved from seeing Eddy sitting so Blount can be on the court and I think we might see a move to the kids getting ten minutes or so a game together on the court.


----------



## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

OK, I'm getting cautiously optimistic that Tyson has taken a permanent step forward.

Curry needs at least a few more minutes.


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## ryzmah (Aug 3, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>The Krakken</b>!
> Is it just me, or was Jay NOTICABLY better than Dejuan tonight. I distinctly remember a certain poster a few months agon ribbin on Jay, and stabbing at this board for supporting him vs Dejaun.
> 
> Wonder whatever happened to him???


Definitely at the end of the game, but Dejuan had a nice night too - his play really got the cavs back into the game after the first quarter. Jay's best play was when he was facing Palacio (much as Wagner's was against Jamal).


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## Future (Jul 24, 2002)

I don't know, Curry has played well the last couple games he's been in. All he needs is minutes to show more of his stuff. Things have vastly improved in Curry's game... at points we saw him sky for a rebound over Z. Things are coming along.... but this was against the Nuggets and Cavs.....

If the productivity continues manana, then this can be a start to something big.


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## ChiBullsFan (May 30, 2002)

At the risk of hearing it from the Jay-hatin folk, I thought more impressive than his scoring was the tough DEFENSE he played all night on Dajuan.

With one exception -- leaving Dajuan a little too open for that late three -- he did a great job. He moved his feet and cut off all of Dajuan's attempted drives, forced some turnovers, and stayed active all night.

I'd like to see this type of effort against a veteran guard in the future.


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## TwinkieTowers (Jul 16, 2002)

It looks like Chandler is turning into a clutch player. Not exactly a goto guy, but someone who is capable of getting the big rebound. I think teams rules should make him the exception, because tardiness seems to help him big time.


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## DickieHurtz (May 28, 2002)

Solid effort by our guys. But hoo-boy, is Cleveland a bad team or what? That's the worst defensive effort I think I've ever seen by an NBA team.

Only 11 turnovers by the Bulls...that was a big key. And they forced 19 Cav TO's which the Bulls converted into 27 points according to our announcers.

I feel very bad for Crawford. It appears that the results of the competition orchestrated by Cartwright between JC and Williams has broken his spirit. He needs to be traded more than the Bulls need to trade him. I hope he gets a chance at a fresh start somewhere else.


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## unBULLievable (Dec 13, 2002)

*It's OFFICIAL....*

We won our first game series of the year!!!!!:yes: 

Bulls 3-Cavs 1


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## TwinkieTowers (Jul 16, 2002)

The Bulls need to do addition by subtraction and trade Crawford away for a capable role player.

It doesn't matter if Crawford may become a great player. Chemistry is the key. A reason why the Bulls traded Artest.


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## DickieHurtz (May 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mikedc</b>!
> OK, I'm getting cautiously optimistic that Tyson has taken a permanent step forward.
> 
> Curry needs at least a few more minutes.


And if he has, and Curry eventually works his way back into the starting lineup, what's to become of either Marshall or Fizer? From what I've seen, Curry is getting closer and closer to becoming the kind of player the Bulls want him to be. I wonder what his numbers would look like now if he was getting 30 or more minutes per game.

You know that eventually Chandler and Curry will end up back in the starting lineup together. If Fizer recovers and regains the form that made him so effective this year, he and Donyell may find themselves fghting for scraps next season...and that won't be fair to either player.


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## Half-Life (Jan 1, 2003)

I also agree that Crawford seems not interested in a Bulls uniform anymore...regardless of how many games we win. The past couple of games he doesn't seem to have the energy. It's like he's playing just for minutes sake, not to impress BC or anything.

For those who watched the game..did BC actually had a decent roatation tonight?? Because Blount and Brunson both didn't play.


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## TwinkieTowers (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>DickieHurtz</b>!
> 
> 
> And if he has, and Curry eventually works his way back into the starting lineup, what's to become of either Marshall or Fizer? From what I've seen, Curry is getting closer and closer to becoming the kind of player the Bulls want him to be. I wonder what his numbers would look like now if he was getting 30 or more minutes per game.
> ...


The thing about Fizer and Marshall is that they accept their roles, no matter what the role is, so I don't see too much of a problem with that.


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## ChiBullsFan (May 30, 2002)

YES! It was BC's best rotation all season. He didn't play Blount, the minutes he gave Hoiberg were perfect (and at the perfect juncture), and he played Williams and Chandler the big minutes they deserved. Curry could have gotten more minutes I suppose, but with the way Chandler was playing it is easy to see why he didn't.


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## Machinehead (Jun 12, 2002)

Interesting the minutes that ERob played tonight - about what I expected him to to give the Cavs a nice long look 

Don't expect ERob to play big minutes tomorrow night 

Crawford didnt't play huge minutes as Cleveland will take him if he is available - although his apathetic azz doesn't help him here or anywhere else right now with the way he is sooking n skulking 

Don't expect big minutes from Jamal tomorrow night either - Brunson may get Jay's minutes or they may activate Roger 

Not saying that ERob and Jamal are necessarily getting traded - but to keep the options open and keep them injury free - I would say they may be sitting some tomorrow night if the 11th hour hatchet comes 

I could not give a rats azz about losing Jamal personally but it would suck to see ERob go - I think he has shown over the last month he has something to offer us and if possible I would like to keep him . His length and athleticism seems to be disrupting his wing opponents


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>F.Jerzy</b>!
> Interesting the minutes that ERob played tonight - about what I expected him to to give the Cavs a nice long look
> 
> Don't expect ERob to play big minutes tomorrow night
> ...


Whats your speculation on where they might go?


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

I missed the game. What did I miss? The recap isn't up on nba.com yet. The box score is though...

Who are Jamal and E-Rob being traded to Cleveland for?


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## unBULLievable (Dec 13, 2002)

Financially the deal that makes sense is Crawford+Dalibor/blount/Hoibs for Daniels and a pick..
In Hoopsworld the Blazers report says that theis deal has the most legs to go through..Daniels is a FA this summer so if he is a good fit for us we cankeep him or else get 3$$ million and so in cap space...

Hope ERob stays...
C-Tyson/Eddy
PF-Donyell/Lonny
SF-ERob/Hassell
SG-Jalen/DANIELS/?
PG-JWILL/DANIELS/?

Better rotation...


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>unBULLievable</b>!
> Financially the deal that makes sense is Crawford+Dalibor/blount/Hoibs for Daniels and a pick..
> In Hoopsworld the Blazers report says that theis deal has the most legs to go through..Daniels is a FA this summer so if he is a good fit for us we cankeep him or else get 3$$ million and so in cap space...
> 
> ...


I would play Daniels at the sg and see what mason has at the point for the rest of the year.


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## Showtyme (Jun 24, 2002)

Sad to read all these trade speculations... I was hoping just to bask in a win.

That's a mighty nice box score. Chandler, Jay, Curry all having pretty strong outings, Marshall getting his double double, Robinson showing up.

My question is, if players can contribute during their "showcasing", then why the heck would we want to trade them? If they can go out and have great games like that, what is the motivation behind a trade? Wouldn't that motivate us to GIVE THEM MORE MINUTES???

Sometimes the world doesn't make any sense.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

_Notes Cleveland GM Jim Paxson said not to look for the Cavs to make a deal by Thursday's trading deadline. ``We're not trading our good young players or taking on somebody else's high-priced veterans,'' he said. ... _


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Showtyme</b>!
> Sad to read all these trade speculations... I was hoping just to bask in a win.
> 
> That's a mighty nice box score. Chandler, Jay, Curry all having pretty strong outings, Marshall getting his double double, Robinson showing up.
> ...


I hear you!! Dont get discouraged with all the trade talk. I enjoy it myself. Truth is, we might not see anything happen. But i really love talking about what might happen.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>DickieHurtz</b>!
> 
> 
> And if he has, and Curry eventually works his way back into the starting lineup, what's to become of either Marshall or Fizer? From what I've seen, Curry is getting closer and closer to becoming the kind of player the Bulls want him to be. I wonder what his numbers would look like now if he was getting 30 or more minutes per game.
> ...


Yup, I agree. 

If we pick up Jones or someone similar, then I think we try to move one of them by the deadline for a future pick or two. That way, we can replace them with a couple of cheaper guys precisely as money is becoming more scarce and our current younger guys have been around enough to get rid of the worst of their green.

As to which is moved, I have no idea. I think Fizer can't be moved, at the earliest, until the deadline. It'll take that long for him to get back up to speed (if he does get back). If he does come back healthy, he'll have more value than Marshall, I think. On the other hand, if he doesn't come back healthy, maybe we can keep him at a discount and move Marshall for a future pick.

In either case, they'd both present an opportunity to convert their relatively large salaries to smaller ones, which would be very useful if we pulled of a certain, much discussed trade. Even if there is no trade, I tend to think the same logic applies. They both can't get major minutes so we either convert their present talent to future talent or combine them to get a better present talent (if we still have a major hole somewhere a year down the pike).


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## local_sportsfan (Jul 24, 2002)

How about Crawford for Jumaine Jones?

Seems like a win-win trade for both teams (even though after tonight, I doubt the Cavs would want another "me first" player).


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## Machinehead (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>gettinbranded</b>!
> _Notes Cleveland GM Jim Paxson said not to look for the Cavs to make a deal by Thursday's trading deadline. ``We're not trading our good young players or taking on somebody else's high-priced veterans,'' he said. ... _


Well when you are the Cavs who own the worst record in the league .. you got to bust some moves and the biggest asset they have right now believe it or not is Tyrone Hill and his expiring $6.6M contract

If they don't cash in on that . ... then , well , they are the Cavs afterall with crap unimaginative management 

* Truebluefan *

My deal tip is ( and has been forever ) 

Crawford and ERob to Cleveland 

Hill, Jumaine Jones (renounceable RFA ) Blount , Hassell and Bagaric to Miami - Bags the only contract on foot 

Eddie Jones to Chicago 

Why in the world Cleveland would not do this deal is beyond me 

They basically get a big point guard ( that they have said they have coveted ) for free 

ERob is hardly an old vet although he may be pricey - but only for 2 more years after this . He is a replacement for Miles and the net cost is around $3M over 2 years 

Miles is dangled on draft day for a pick or swapped for someone like Wilcox if Brand stays and Odom/Maggette go .


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## Machinehead (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Showtyme</b>!
> Sad to read all these trade speculations... I was hoping just to bask in a win.


Tis the season 

Tra la la la 

La la la la


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>F.Jerzy</b>!
> 
> 
> Well when you are the Cavs who own the worst record in the league .. you got to bust some moves and the biggest asset they have right now believe it or not is Tyrone Hill and his expiring $6.6M contract
> ...


Is the Miami deal a salary move for them?

Otherwise it makes no sense.


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## ChiBullsFan (May 30, 2002)

FJerzy,



> Notes Cleveland GM Jim Paxson said not to look for the Cavs to make a deal by Thursday's trading deadline. ``We're not trading our good young players or taking on somebody else's high-priced veterans,'' he said. ...


Sounds like a pretty rational argument to me. Perhaps it's some advice the Bulls should heed before considering a deal for the aging, declining, overpaid Eddie Jones.


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## local_sportsfan (Jul 24, 2002)

Miami wouldn't do that deal, unless they were desperate to get Jones off the cap.


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## Machinehead (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>gettinbranded</b>!
> 
> 
> Is the Miami deal a salary move for them?
> ...


Obviously 

Its a lay down mesare for Miami 

They have $7M to spend if they sign a top 3 pick this summer

Doing this deal adds another $11M to the pot

They have $18M to go to the mall with


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## DaFuture (Nov 5, 2002)

*and you are somehow*



> Originally posted by <b>DickieHurtz</b>!
> Solid effort by our guys. But hoo-boy, is Cleveland a bad team or what? That's the worst defensive effort I think I've ever seen by an NBA team.
> 
> Only 11 turnovers by the Bulls...that was a big key. And they forced 19 Cav TO's which the Bulls converted into 27 points according to our announcers.
> ...



privy to Jamal's mental state???:uhoh:


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

Well, if Jamal's mental state is at all reflected in his game lately I don't think this is such a wild assumption


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## Machinehead (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ChiBullsFan</b>!
> FJerzy,
> 
> 
> ...


Just so you know .. Jalen is basically the same vintage as Jones , earns the same amount of money and would have the same types of issues at Miami as to what Eddie Jones does and that he does on this team ( who incidentally have parallel win/loss records with them not having our spread of young "talent" but having a roster filled with scrubs cept for Jones and Butler.)

I don't think Eddie is going to save us and I don't think Jalen will either - my view is quite simple - I believe off the ball Eddie is a better fit to how I think our team will emerge - in terms of its chemistry and the summation of the individual talents and what they have to offer 

If Eddie with Jalen can get us to the playoffs sooner next year with Jalen whilst our young guys develop ... great . If we make it there again the following year on contributions from Eddie .. great again . Against this fear factor of him being a cap eating bum for the last two years of his contract ... who cares , because by them ( in my theory ) we have given reasons and hope for our young guys to remain for a team that is truly on the upswing and not merely a team of promise ( The Clips ) that never went anywhere. By then they will have had two playoff campaigns under their belt and ( hopefully ) they should be starting to hit their stride

If we do nothing and allow more of an organic type of model to define who we are and who we will never be as a team because of our imbalances being what they are that distracts and inhibits the mature development of players - as players and men - then by the time we click , if in fact we ever do , we will be a crap side still climbing over the top of each other in the me first crap that predominates and that is the very thing that is sinking the Clippers and what will do us in 

We have players with their own agendas right now playing for themselves - all with altruism to break through and help the team - but for the younger players - also to get theirs . You have miscast money man Jalen that is falling./has fallen for the Ron Mercer sucker punch and is not the guy we traded for the reasons in bringing him in . So as much as what everyone is playing for themself and if this is allowed to continue with our flawed structure and management philsopohy - it will only get more pronounced as everyone moves closer to their contract expiry 

You already have ERob saying that if he gets a rebound he's sending it straight back up instead of looking for a better option because its the only shot opportunity he gets ( complaining that no plays are run for him to score ) 

So if this is who we become with sufficient enough time passing that such culture and malfunction as a team becomes ingrained .. then like the Clippers that promise so much we are not going to be a winning team and The Jerry's will not be ponying up for our young guns anyway , and just like the Clips look like losing at least two maybe three of four out of Kandi,Miller, Maggette, Brand and Odom ( hell maybe all of them ) what incentive will there to be for Chandler, Curry and Jay to stay in town if someone else wants to pony up and outbid what we are prepared to pay (diminished ) which will largely be predicated upon how quickly we start winning ( or not ) 

That's why if there is real courage and commitment to winning with our undeniable core - Tyson, Eddy and Jay ( and I put Marcus on the periphery here now too ) then we must consolidate and orchestrate chemistry rather than hoping the mismatch we have put together can sought it out. By the time that happens ( if it ever does ) it will be a case of ( just like the Clippers ) last one out turn out the lights. 

So Jones is a fit in the aspirations of winning sooner rather than later without compromising our young core and as they develop further over the next season or two , with Jay running the offense ( and not Jalen ) then in order to address salary issues, Rose is actively shopped at that time for a better piece that fits in deferrance as to where the nerve centre is . EJ does not brush up against the nerve centre - he complements it better than Rose ( n the dynamic of growth and control ) in personality and in game ( off the ball rather than ball centric to be happy ) 

Whilst of course you are entitled to your opinion on Jones , I find your issues superficial and bleating repetition of popular press / internet board wisdom - without being grounded in current fact and analysis of actuality 

The scare police are out there kicking butt and taking names of ignorant and cowardly GM's and their internet wannabes - against a background of financial rationalism which diminishes courage that is required in a decision making process now for fear of something that cannot be properly clarified or known in 3 or 4 years hence

Talk about scare mongering and the herd mentality


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## ChiBullsFan (May 30, 2002)

FJerzy,

Jones has two years on Rose, and I think that Rose virtually worthless with respect to our future.

We need guys who will be useful when our young core is ready to compete. Jalen is already on the cusp, anybody older is going to have little value.

Maybe if Jones was getting $5 million I'd be all for it, but he's making $10+ million a season. It will TOTALLY handcuff our financial flexibility in the future. And I'm not talking about re-signing our young guys -- I'm talking about going out and getting a needed FA.

I just don't see Jones as being an exception to the rule. Second tier stars around age 32/33 start to see major declines in talent. I've listed them before and I'll do it again. Kenny Anderson, Glen Rice, Mitch Richmond, Kendall Gill, Shawn Kemp. And I'm sorry if you think this is "superficial and bleating repetition of popular press", but I'm pretty sure I came up with this argument on this board orginally. I have never read it elsewhere as a reason not to get Jones, but if that's what you believe then fine.

I've just seen older guys with big contracts handcuff teams' futures time and time again. Frankly I don't see enough of an upside with Jones to warrant taking on his contract.

Jerzy, do you honestly see him as a major contributor to a Bulls chmapionship? If you do, I will back off... but I just find that a tough pill to swallow.


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## Vintage (Nov 8, 2002)

Can someone do a start recap on Chandler, Williams, Rose, and Robinson for me?

It'd be appreciated.


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## Dan Rosenbaum (Jun 3, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>F.Jerzy</b>!Just so you know .. Jalen is basically the same vintage as Jones , earns the same amount of money and would have the same types of issues at Miami as to what Eddie Jones does and that he does on this team ( who incidentally have parallel win/loss records with them not having our spread of young "talent" but having a roster filled with scrubs cept for Jones and Butler.
> 
> Whilst of course you are entitled to your opinion on Jones , I find your issues superficial and bleating repetition of popular press / internet board wisdom - without being grounded in current fact and analysis of actuality
> 
> ...


FJ, does every significant difference of opinion with you have to become evidence of a character flaw or some dreaded disease, such as "financial rationalism?" Isn't it just possible that some us just don't think that Eddie Jones brings enough to the table to justify the significant financial and non-financial costs in bringing him here? I personally have made many arguments against trading for Jones, some financial and some not, but you repeatedly have insisted on pigeonholing me as a "financial rationalist," a term that I am sure nobody understands, including me. I think that this pigeonholing argument form of yours tends to distract me from the significant content in your arguments. And that is a shame, because you make great arguments.

And mods, please leave this be. I am not attacking FJ (nobody is more effective in changing my mind than FJ), and I think this discussion belongs here rather than in a PM. But if you really want this in a PM, I will live with that decision.


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## Vintage (Nov 8, 2002)

I could care less about EJ and his money.


Its that he is the type of player that will be deteriorating in 2-3 years. Players like Stockton, Malone, and Jordan are a rare breed of athletes. EJ isn't. He wont be able to maintain his game as long as the abov listed. We aren't ready to contend next year, or even the year after. Its going to be 3-4 years before we are challenging for a run at a ring. EJ will be diminishing at that point. Guys like Fizer will be huge for us when we make a run. 

EJ makes us more competative now. But does it in the future? We are gambling on our future. Everything is riding on our future. Why take such a chance to ruin it(if indeed it does)?


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## Potatoe (Jun 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>NCBullsFan</b>!
> 
> 
> FJ, does every significant difference of opinion with you have to become evidence of a character flaw or some dreaded disease, such as "financial rationalism?" Isn't it just possible that some us just don't think that Eddie Jones brings enough to the table to justify the significant financial and non-financial costs in bringing him here? I personally have made many arguments against trading for Jones, some financial and some not, but you repeatedly have insisted on pigeonholing me as a "financial rationalist," a term that I am sure nobody understands, including me. I think that this pigeonholing argument form of yours tends to distract me from the significant content in your arguments. And that is a shame, because you make great arguments.
> ...




"financial rationalism" LOL

That is an "F.J-ism" if I have ever seen one (smile)....

"financial rationalism" LAMOF you are too much man....


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## Machinehead (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ChiBullsFan</b>!
> FJerzy,
> 
> Jones has two years on Rose, and I think that Rose virtually worthless with respect to our future.


Not entirely correct. There is a difference of 1 year and 3 months - so call it 1 year 

To call them the same vintage is accurate 

1 year difference for a non banging wing player is F'all.





> We need guys who will be useful when our young core is ready to compete. Jalen is already on the cusp, anybody older is going to have little value.


No . We need roleplayers when our young guys mature and are ready to compete. A defined deferrential pecking order . We need Jalen now but I don't see him handing the keys over y'know.



> Maybe if Jones was getting $5 million I'd be all for it, but he's making $10+ million a season. It will TOTALLY handcuff our financial flexibility in the future. And I'm not talking about re-signing our young guys -- I'm talking about going out and getting a needed FA.


I just don't see the merit in this if you sub his cost for one we are already committed for in Rose 

And a much needed FA ? Well if we need the big swinging dick du jour free agent to save the day then we are really stuffed. Any free agent we need byt then within the current plan is more than likely just going to be a role playing MLE tweaker.

I just don't see Jones as being an exception to the rule. Second tier stars around age 32/33 start to see major declines in talent. I've listed them before and I'll do it again. Kenny Anderson, Glen Rice, Mitch Richmond, Kendall Gill, Shawn Kemp. [/quote]

These are all more heavily framed guys as well whereas I think Eddie and Jalen for that matter have better longevity prospects because of their lithe frames and they know how to look after themselves. Their games aren't based on huge amounts of contact. And Mitch was fine up to age 35 . He was still productive its just that his situation sucked in Washington and there were bigger issues in play with the team that needed tidying up . From memory he was still giving 16ppg per . If I really wanted to think there are plenty of examples of productive players 33 - 36 . Sure the incidence of injury is higher and more riskier but you can't just make a blanket assumption that that is how it is going to be .

Besides if his production does slip after say 2 years and he morphs more into a role player , I would hope this to be the case which would mean that Jay, Eddy and Tyson are the dominant 3 prong we hope they can be.




> I've just seen older guys with big contracts handcuff teams' futures time and time again. Frankly I don't see enough of an upside with Jones to warrant taking on his contract.


As I say Jones and Rose cancel each other out in a lot of ways even though they are different types of players . Jones is waaay more complementary to Jay than what Jalen is 

This is why I am so pro Jones because I think you have to look at it ( for balance ) as Jay and Eddie or Jamal and Jalen

And I vote for Jay and Eddie 



> Jerzy, do you honestly see him as a major contributor to a Bulls chmapionship? If you do, I will back off... but I just find that a tough pill to swallow.


Yes I do .. but not in the way you think I may think of him in this respect 

He is a piece as a part of the journey toward a championship - not someone that is going to win you one - but neither is Jalen

Together, he and Jalen will help us on the journey faster - but I think once we are well under way , EJ almost acts like the circuit breaker between Jay and Jalen and he ( EJ ) dovetails better into Jay Tyson and Eddy's game than what Rose does


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## Machinehead (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Vintage</b>!
> I could care less about EJ and his money.
> 
> 
> ...


To contend you have to be competitive first and _ that _ takes 3 - 4 years 

The point of EJ doing it for us then is not the point - its too make the road there less risky in terms of the issues that plague us now 

In case you haven't heard.. our chemistry sucks . Things like physical altercations and constant sniping between the young guards , vets wanting to kill assistant coaches , accusations of silver spoons in mouths , selfishness , players getting rebounds and taking any shot they can because they don't get the plays run for them 

Yeah - organic growth is a beaut . Coming along fine I say and in 3 - 4 years from now with nothing done and this situation left unchecked .. wave your stunted studs goodbye


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## Machinehead (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>NCBullsFan</b>!
> 
> 
> FJ, does every significant difference of opinion with you have to become evidence of a character flaw or some dreaded disease, such as "financial rationalism?"


I never said anything about character flaw



> Isn't it just possible that some us just don't think that Eddie Jones brings enough to the table to justify the significant financial and non-financial costs in bringing him here?


Yes. And fair enough . 



> I personally have made many arguments against trading for Jones, some financial and some not, but you repeatedly have insisted on pigeonholing me as a "financial rationalist," a term that I am sure nobody understands, including me. I think that this pigeonholing argument form of yours tends to distract me from the significant content in your arguments. And that is a shame, because you make great arguments.


Apologies. It just read you as someone that prefaces and preferences their opinion wrapped around such 

What's the mystery with a financial rationalist anyway . Its not a bad thing - I thought it was self explanatory.



> And mods, please leave this be. I am not attacking FJ (nobody is more effective in changing my mind than FJ), and I think this discussion belongs here rather than in a PM. But if you really want this in a PM, I will live with that decision.


Tis the class I have got to know and what is evident in what you contribute,NC.

Props and Peace!


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## ChiBullsFan (May 30, 2002)

FJerzy,

I am seeing your POV better, but I still have some major reservations. First off, you should know that I am and have always been a big fan of Ejones' game.

BUT, with Jalen already making the big bucks, why do we want to commit another $10 mill to an aging wing player?

I don't doubt the value of veterans and do think Ejones can have some legitimate value at age 33, but certainly not as a go to scorer at that point.

And I'm not very infatuated with having Rose and Jones starting on the wings for us two years down the road. We would have very little athleticism, size or speed. One of these guys is enough.

Now if we are talking trading Rose for Jones, then I'm all ears. But both of them? No way.

It's financially impractical to commit $20-25 million to have two aging wing players whose contributions will be relatively limited by that point in their careers.

And you can't just take Jalen out of the equation when factoring in the impact of getting Jones.

I think their is a much bigger risk of hurting the team in the long run than really, truly helping the team. I'd rather keep some money freed up, and maybe take a run at a guy like Maggette or Richardson in the next two offseasons.


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## DickieHurtz (May 28, 2002)

*Re: and you are somehow*



> Originally posted by <b>DaFuture</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> privy to Jamal's mental state???:uhoh:


I'm not trying to be a mind reader...just expressing one reason (not necessarily _the_ reason) why I think it's in Crawford's best interests to move on.

Apparently the Sun-Times' Modrowski feels that a change of address for Crawford would be good for all concerned as well:

http://www.suntimes.com/output/bulls/cst-spt-roman19.html


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## BamaBull (Jun 24, 2002)

*Aren't there any YOUNG Steve Kerrs' out there?*

These comments below are based on our team play so far this season.

We do need to trade crawford, however, what we DO need in his place are some "Role" players who BELIEVE they are BEST as ROLE Players....ron harper, steve kerr, Travis Best.....where are these guys??? Not the actual guys,but younger versions of em....

also, I surely am one of our biggest backers of JayWill, HOWEVER, this was against the worst team in the league...sure, could be a confidence builder, but lets not crown him the next coming yet.

EROB, man, this guy has definite great upsides.....the ONLY thing is... hadn't we just better trade him while his big toe is not sticking up our butts???

Crawford needs to go...I have NEVER liked his jerky jumper and his floater to the basket from 15 feet away! That shot once in awhile keeps everyone honest in the lane, but when he depends on it all the time, he sucks. 

Donyell does NOT have the stamina or "Gift" to be a starter. I am convinced of it. This guy is slap worn out....I would keep Fizer and start him with Marshall off the bench as 6th man.

Chandler has shown spurts of why maybe krause gave brand away. A few pounds of muscle and more jumpers from this kid and he WILL be a force. 

Curry,....I just think this kid needs another year to reach NBA abilities. 

Our attention needs to be to rid ourselves of Crawford, EROB, Hoiberg, Bagaric, Blount, Hassell(what a fizzler!) and work on getting Mike Miller from Orlando here....

PG - Jay Williams/Mason/Brunson
SG - Mike Miller/Mason/Rose
SF - Jalen Rose/Donyell Marshall
PF - Eddie Curry/Marcus Fizer/Baxter
C - Tyson Chandler/ Eddie Curry

next summer add either LeBron James or Darko...eh?

:grinning:


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## THE'clip'SHOW (Sep 24, 2002)

Did D-Miles have a monster block? Who was it on? I thought I saw a highlight on sportscenter.


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## Bigjad66 (Aug 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>THE'clip'SHOW</b>!
> Did D-Miles have a monster block? Who was it on? I thought I saw a highlight on sportscenter.


It was on the great lonny baxter.


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## THE'clip'SHOW (Sep 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Bigjad66</b>!
> 
> 
> It was on the great lonny baxter.


Thanks, it looked crazy on the highlight. Lonny isn't that bad, he usually uses his body well to prevent that from happening.


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## Bigjad66 (Aug 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>THE'clip'SHOW</b>!
> 
> 
> Thanks, it looked crazy on the highlight. Lonny isn't that bad, he usually uses his body well to prevent that from happening.



Yeah, as I remeber lonny was being guarded baseline on the low block, spun around his man toward the basket, but i didnt see Miles creeping with help defense on the other side. It was a great block. He would look real nice in a bulls jersey.


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## Kneepad (Jun 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Bigjad66</b>!
> Yeah, as I remeber lonny was being guarded baseline on the low block, spun around his man toward the basket, but i didnt see Miles creeping with help defense on the other side. It was a great block. He would look real nice in a bulls jersey.


Actually, a great block would have retained possession of the ball for his team.

Wennington pointed this out when Tyson trying to swat a block attempt into the 18th row, and missed it completely. He said if he would have simply put his hand in the path of the ball instead of swatting at it, he would have had it.

He also made a hilarious comment about the fact that if Tyson [[]had[/i] managed to swat the ball into the 18th row, he wouldn't have hurt anybody because there wasn't anybody sitting there.


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## Bigjad66 (Aug 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Kneepad</b>!
> 
> Actually, a great block would have retained possession of the ball for his team.
> 
> ...


True I guess. If you wanna be all nit picky lol :grinning: I guess I should have said it was a very crowd pleasing block because most people dont pay attenting to the subtle nuances such as blocking the ball to a teammate or blocking to start a fast break. I enjoy Winningtons more as a color guy than as a sideline guy  but it just seems weird with out Johny's drunken screams of Yeahhhhhhhhh when ever something good happens. I hope he gets well soon.


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## THE'clip'SHOW (Sep 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Kneepad</b>!
> 
> Actually, a great block would have retained possession of the ball for his team.
> 
> ...


lol
Its always nice to save the block, but in order to block the shot sometimes thats not possible. AND a MONSTER block like that can have a huge effect on the team and momentum.


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## Kneepad (Jun 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>THE'clip'SHOW</b>!
> Its always nice to save the block, but in order to block the shot sometimes thats not possible.


It certainly was in the case we're discussing.



> AND a MONSTER block like that can have a huge effect on the team and momentum.


More than a subsequent fast break and basket for your team?

So I'm an old white fart. Sue me.


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## Tenshi25 (Nov 27, 2002)

Ahem...can you guys please explain something to me that I don't understand...mmm....how, in the name of God, can you have 200(!!) replies in a Bulls vs. Cavs thread????!!!!!! oh my God, I can hardly have a reply to my posts in the Rockets forum, you guys amaze me...


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Tenshi25</b>!
> Ahem...can you guys please explain something to me that I don't understand...mmm....how, in the name of God, can you have 200(!!) replies in a Bulls vs. Cavs thread????!!!!!! oh my God, I can hardly have a reply to my posts in the Rockets forum, you guys amaze me...


We have had larger game threads than this!! This is a little over average but not that much over!


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## Tenshi25 (Nov 27, 2002)

Maybe I should start considering changing my team...Go Bulls


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Tenshi25</b>!
> Maybe I should start considering changing my team...Go Bulls


You whats even more shocking about this forum? There is another forum with just about the same amount of bulls fans. Post counts anyway are close to being even. So this is not all of us.


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## Tenshi25 (Nov 27, 2002)

Yeah, it's pretty amazing...I'd say the Bulls are probably the team with the biggest fan base in the league (probably with the Lakers), would you agree?


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Tenshi25</b>!
> Yeah, it's pretty amazing...I'd say the Bulls are probably the team with the biggest fan base in the league (probably with the Lakers), would you agree?


Yes. And add to the fact that some of the laker fans are not true fans of the lakers. Some are bandwagon fans. Go from team to team each year that wins it all! some of them used to be bulls fans.


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## Tenshi25 (Nov 27, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>truebluefan</b>!
> 
> 
> Yes. And add to the fact that some of the laker fans are not true fans of the lakers. Some are bandwagon fans. Go from team to team each year that wins it all! some of them used to be bulls fans.


Yeah, that's pretty sad in my opinion, me for example, I am a Rockets fan, I loved when we were a powerhouse during lots of years, and when we won two championships; lately the team kinda sucks, like last year winning 27 games, but I am still a Rockets fan no matter what, it's my team.
With the Bulls having been a poor team in the last 3-4 years, the fact that you have this amount of posts and interest in the team really proves the the base is awesome and they're really for the team.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Tenshi25</b>!
> 
> 
> Yeah, that's pretty sad in my opinion, me for example, I am a Rockets fan, I loved when we were a powerhouse during lots of years, and when we won two championships; lately the team kinda sucks, like last year winning 27 games, but I am still a Rockets fan no matter what, it's my team.
> With the Bulls having been a poor team in the last 3-4 years, the fact that you have this amount of posts and interest in the team really proves the the base is awesome and they're really for the team.


Good for you! Thats the way you should be!


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## Tenshi25 (Nov 27, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>truebluefan</b>!
> 
> 
> Good for you! Thats the way you should be!


Yup, Rockets fan and proud of it!  

Hey, since our teams are rebuilding and hopefully will be pretty good in the next years, how about a Rockets vs. Bulls Finals for the next season? deal? :


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Tenshi25</b>!
> 
> 
> Yup, Rockets fan and proud of it!
> ...


Thats possible. You have a nice young team and a good coach. I used to think that LAC would be our adversary but not anymore. Phoenix and the Rockets could give us a run in the future thats for sure!


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## Tenshi25 (Nov 27, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>truebluefan</b>!
> 
> 
> Thats possible. You have a nice young team and a good coach. I used to think that LAC would be our adversary but not anymore. Phoenix and the Rockets could give us a run in the future thats for sure!


Yeah, the Suns have improved dramatically this season, most of people thought they would be at the bottom of the West in the beggining of the season. The Clippers, well this year they a have a very nice team IMO, but...they're the Clippers after all, I guess it explains it all.
As for the Rockets, I really hope we'll be a great team again soon, specially after having seen Yao playing like yesterday, but still there a few things to improve, otherwise we'll remain as the team that can beat anybody in the league but keep losing games stupidly.


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## Kneepad (Jun 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>truebluefan</b>!
> Thats possible. You have a nice young team and a good coach.


Well, the first part, anyways.

Tenshi, how come RudyT doesn't tell those knuckleheads to get the ball into Yao?


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## Tenshi25 (Nov 27, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Kneepad</b>!
> 
> Well, the first part, anyways.
> 
> Tenshi, how come RudyT doesn't tell those knuckleheads to get the ball into Yao?


:sigh: I think I can speak in every Rockets fan and say: I wish I knew...


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## Lizzy (May 28, 2002)

Did y'all notice Rose talking to Miles for a long time after the game? Probably just being nice but...damn! I wish it was b/c he knew something.


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