# Wizards lineup???



## grizzoistight

Help me out.. 
PG LArry Hughes - Juan Dixon - Tyron Lue ( Whitney will be released even though hes better than lue)
SG Rip hamilton - rod grizzard - Hubert davis
sf Jefferies - jordan - bobby simmons
Pf Kwame brown ( he will be good next year!!! 13 points a game -Popeye Jones 
C Haywood - Etan Thomas


----------



## erickboy22

*Wizards lineup*

I assume that u are saying that Lattener and White would be traded 

PG - Hughes, Whit, Lue, Dixon
SG - Hamilton, Jordan (Hughes) (Dixon)
SF - Jefferies, Simmons, Grizzard (Jordan)
PF - Popeye, Brown, Lattener (Thomas)
C - White, Haywood, Thomas

( ) players are interchangeable and can play other positions

I think Whitney will not be on the team but i don't think he'll be released ... i think the Wiz are going to try to trade him for a draft pick


----------



## cmd34

I'll go with:

PG: Chris Whitney
SG: Rip Hamilton
C : Jahidi White
PF: Christian Laettner
SF: Michael Jordan
6th:Larry Hughes

But check out how different it will be if Jordan gets hurt again or says he is done:

PG: Juan Dixon
SG: Richard Hamilton
C : Brendan Haywood
PF: Kwame Brown
SF: Larry Hughes
6th:Jared Jefferies


----------



## MikeDC

I think it's really too early to tell. My preference would be to go with the kids as much as possible. Also, whenever matchups permit, I think I'd like to give Etan time at center. 

Something like:

PG- Hughes 32 / MJ 8 / Dixon or Lue 8
SG- Rip 36 / MJ 12
SF- Jeffries 28 / Nesby 12 / Grizzard or Simmons 8
PF- Brown 28 / Thomas 10 / Laettner 10
C- Thomas 12 / White 18 / Haywood 18

I'm not totally comfortable with the SF situation, but unless we can translate Whitney, Lue, Laettner, and/or Davis into something better than Nesby we might as well just sign the latter to steady the boat and then hope that Jeffries and Simmons prove capable.


----------



## cmd34

Shouldn't Jordan be getting some minutes at small forward?


----------



## BCH

Here is my shot.

PG: Hughes/Whitney or Lue/Dixon
SG: Hamilton/Jordan/Hughes/Dixon
SF: Jeffries/Simmons/Jordan
PF: Laettner/Brown/Thomas
C: White/Haywood/Thomas

That is a roster of 12 guys. I am assuming Whitney or Lue get traded. I am assuming Popeye Jones is not re-signed. I believe Hubert Davis may be traded as well. The Inactive List will consist of Grizzard, Davis, and Lue if there are no trades.

White is a situational starter. In some instances you will see White not play at all and Laettner will start at center, and possibly Thomas, with kwame starting at PF. 

It is difficult to see Laettner getting left out of the rotation. The guy still can play, and he is smart. He got off to a rough start last year, but when he played well, the team played well. Unless he gets dealt, he will probably play, maybe to try and move him around the trade deadline.


----------



## MikeDC

He might, but I'd really rather he not. At least, no more than a token 4-6 minutes at the start of the game. 

Reasons:

1. I wonder if "bulking up" as he did last year was part of the reason his knees went south. It's amazing just how small differences like that can throw one's body out of whack.

2. The more he plays at SF, the more he's got to bang against guys that, at this point, are bigger, stronger, and faster. That's more wear and tear on him.

But, realistically, you're probably right, he'll play some there. How about this:

PG- Hughes 32 / MJ 8 / Dixon or Lue 8
SG- Rip 36 / MJ 12
SF- MJ 6 / Jeffries 24 / Nesby 10 / Grizzard or Simmons 8
PF- Brown 28 / Thomas 10 / Laettner 10
C- Thomas 12 / White 18 / Haywood 18

At that point, though, we've got 12 guys as part of the regular rotation. That seems a bit much to me. Maybe Nesby takes away Grizzard/Simmon's minutes (probably, those guys would swap time on the IR unless someone establishes himself).

I agree with BCH that Laettner is hard to get rid of... he's too good to not play, but he's too old to be in the long term plans. I'd prefer to trade him instead of White though, because White's young and can do certain things very well.

The question is, can we get anyone who's a better fit than Nesby by trading Laettner (maybe packaged with Davis, Lue, and/or Whitney)?


----------



## cmd34

i really think the wiz could contend in the east(hell..me and four mark madsens could contend in the east) if they make a deal for a better point guard or a rebounding power forward. i think there are teams out there trying to dump salary so they could do it without giving up kwame or rip. if they are going to play for the futute then the best thing jordan could do is auction himself off to a contender who would give up a prospect and a pick. hypothetical trades...to the rockets for eddie griffin and a future #1, to the kings (god forbid)for turkoglu and a #1, to the pacers for jonatahan bender and a #1. he just decides what his true objective is...???


----------



## BCH

Unless that better PG is a young almost all-star type of guy then expect the Wizards not to do anything that increases their cap room.

ALso, you can shelve the MJ trading himself talk. I can't think of a reason why it would ever happen.


----------



## cmd34

if his true goal was to improve the wizz it would be a legitimate option. i am not saying it will happen but do you think "the valuable learning experience" rip hamilton and kwame brown are getting from him playing with them for 2 seasons would outweigh how a prospect and extra draft pick would improve them(in the longrun). Jordan would get 1 last run in the playoffs and retire and reclaim his Wizards ownership just as he plans to do anyway.


----------



## MikeDC

With Hughes on board, is it feasible to consider a trade that would involve Rip?

I'd trade damn near anyone to get Baron Davis


----------



## cmd34

for the right guy...yes.


----------



## MikeDC

In my mind, Baron would be the right guy. He's the kind of leader I think we need.

Right now, it really seems like, short of MJ, we don't have much identity. Although Rip is a good player, and Kwame has the potential to be a very good player, I don't know that either of them has the kind of leadership and star power that I see in Baron


----------



## ThatGuy

Errr.. you guys are weird. We just traded Alexander to the Hornets, chiefly because he and Rip were getting in each other's way. Now, you expect to send Hamilton to the Hornets as part of a package to get Baron Davis? Makes a lot of sense..... not.

And if a trade goes down, it will be to get a starting small forward, and hopefully get rid of some dead weight (cap and playerwise). With the emergence of Etan Thomas as a physical presence, I find it quite likely that Jahidi gets moved. At the time of the draft, there were rumors that Jahidi might go to the Magic. We'll see. 

If it were up to me, I'd trade Jahidi to the Kings for Turkoglu.


----------



## MikeDC

> Originally posted by *ThatGuy *
> Errr.. you guys are weird. We just traded Alexander to the Hornets, chiefly because he and Rip were getting in each other's way. Now, you expect to send Hamilton to the Hornets as part of a package to get Baron Davis? Makes a lot of sense..... not.
> 
> And if a trade goes down, it will be to get a starting small forward, and hopefully get rid of some dead weight (cap and playerwise). With the emergence of Etan Thomas as a physical presence, I find it quite likely that Jahidi gets moved. At the time of the draft, there were rumors that Jahidi might go to the Magic. We'll see.
> 
> If it were up to me, I'd trade Jahidi to the Kings for Turkoglu.


First, I don't need the attitude. Why not keep it a little respectful. 

Second, I don't think anyone actually said "hey, let's trade Rip for Baron Davis".

Third, I in particular would be more than willing to trade Rip for Baron Davis. From the Wizards' perspective, its a great trade. Yeah, the hornets wouldn't do it, but that doesn't mean it's any worse for us.


----------



## ThatGuy

I suppose I don't really care if you "need the attitude". Maybe you are simply too sensitive.

As for the other bit, you can feel free to pretend that 



> With Hughes on board, is it feasible to consider a trade that would involve Rip?
> 
> I'd trade damn near anyone to get Baron Davis


doesn't mean what it obviously does, but that's cool. Just for you, buddy, I'll be nicer, but realize that you are the one being antagonistic at this point, and are in no position to dictate tone.

In any event, since we're talking lineups, and can in fact agree that there is a PG deficiency. I'd find it far more likely, but not probably, that we could in fact pry Andre Miller, he of 16.5 points, 11 assists, and 5 boards a game from the el-cheapo Cavaliers.

While I love Kwame, and think in time he will develop to be an all-star 4, the emergence of Etan tells me that for the next year or so, at least, we could start him at the 4 and not lose much, once you balance out Kwame's potential on offense and fast-breakability with Etan's muscle and defense on the low post. Soo... a trade involving Kwame, the Wizards #1 next year, and Andre Miller (with other components filling in the blanks in terms of backup PGs such as Lue, and someone from the Cavs with an expiring conctract (mebbe Nick Anderson) to balance out the salaries. It's hard to say you'd give up Kwame, but your starting backcourt of Rip and Andre would consist of a young proven 20 point scorer, and the league's assist leaders who puts up plenty of points on his own.

Assuming we would then be able to resign Popeye, I think we'd still be ok in the frontcourt, what with Jahidi (of course assuming we dont trade him for a SF), Brendan, Etan, Popeye, and the semi-useless Christian Laettner.

It's a team that based on inside muscle and outside shooting alone would easily be a playoff team in the talent-starved East.


----------



## BCH

Ok. Everyone knows how nice we can all be. 

Would I give up Rip to grab Baron Davis? Yes.

Would I give up Rip to grab Andre Miller? Yes.

Would it take more than Rip to grab either player? Yes.

Would I give up Rip and Kwame to get either player? No.

MikeDC made it pretty evident that we would have that flair and a better player if we could do a Rip for Davis deal. He admitted it wasn't going to happen. It doesn't make sense to try and blast him for stating what is a fact, on both accounts. If he said he expected it to happen then I would lead the charge in questioning why. He didn't.

MJ tried to grab Miller in a deal last year before the draft that involved Rip for Andre. The Cavs didn't bite then, and as much as you might think they would do it now, they aren't unless we overpay in terms of talent.

I like Rip a lot. However, I also know the value of a SG in this league and the value of a top PG. If moving Rip and a few spare parts nets us Baron or Andre then go for it. BUt like MikeDC said, it isn't going to happen.


----------



## ThatGuy

> MJ tried to grab Miller in a deal last year before the draft that involved Rip for MJ. The Cavs didn't bite then, and as much as you might think they would do it now, they aren't unless we overpay in terms of talent.
> 
> I like Rip a lot. However, I also know the value of a SG in this league and the value of a top PG. If moving Rip and a few spare parts nets us Baron or Andre then go for it. BUt like MikeDC said, it isn't going to happen.


I assume you meant "involved Rip for Andre" in the first line. In any event, I never suggested involving Rip in any trade for a point guard, and wouldnt be quick to do so. The team has enough young talent that I dont think it needs to overreach for other pieces of the puzzle, what with the salary room available in 2k3 for a premier free agent. In one way or another, however, its somewhat obvious that some of the pieces that have been hoarded and are currently on the roster will be moved. Unseld has admitted that trade options are still being vigorously pursued. Now, whether thats just a trade involving Jahidi and Mike Miller (put him next to Popeye, and what a handsome pair you have!  ) or something more ambitious, I don't know. It's a shame that we werent able to pull off the Bibby trade last year, but whats done is done.


----------



## BCH

I don't believe the options Wes is pursuing has to do with players we hoarded. We have guys that don't fit with the direction the team is trying to take. 

I also wouldn't hold your breath on the FA market for next year unless a lot of the guys that are restricted this year sign a one year deal.


----------



## ThatGuy

Plenty of the restricted players will in fact sign one year deals, and even beyond that, there are plenty of UFAs coming up in 2k3. No need to hold my breath. Thanks for your concern though.

And considering that the bulk of the "moveable" players on the team outside of Jahidi were acquired in the past year and a half, it's hard to say that they dont fit the "direction" of the team. I think its safer to say that the Wizards went on a talent hunt, because they were sorely lacking youthful talent at practically every single position 1 1/2 years ago outside of Rip.


----------



## BCH

Actually I think it is safe to say that Hubert Davis was part of the deal to remove Juwan Howard. I think that Whitney was a legacy player from before MJs remodeling. Laettner was resigned last year but we needed to have a big man. You may feel different and you are entitled to do so.

So out of what I consider players we are considering moving

Laettner
Jahidi
Hubert
Whitney
Lue

I think Lue is the only guy that even fits with where this team is headed, and he was signed on a 2 year deal as a stop gap.

Get back to me in 2k3 when we sign that big mysterious FA. I seriously doubt it is going to happen.

Let me just say that the history of the past 20 years carries a lot of momentum. Even if we do sign someone I would be mighty suspicious about it.

Ideally, I would love to see Andre, Baron, and Bibby all go this route. I would spend the max on the first two and a pretty penny on Bibby. I haven't really checked out the SFs becoming available next year, but I do know I would prefer one of the guys that is young and talented to one of the absolute stars. We just aren't ready for the star and I feel that if we acquired one, we would start a buildup and tradeoff of young guys to go for the immediate gratification. THe franchise just isn't ready.


----------



## MikeDC

OK, the most obvious point that needs to be made is that just because a three way trade is totally feasible, in which we were to part with Rip (and other guys) to get Baron or Miller.

At this point, I don't expect any deals to happen; they seemed to indicate Hughes was their "answer" at point, and have given no hint of a move of Rip (or anyone else of consequence). I agree of BCH's list of people who might be on their way out, the problem is that I don't see us getting much in return for any of those guys.

And additionally, I don't see us getting one of those tops FAs next year.

Personally, I'm not all that happy with the way things look in the long run. I think we *need* someone like Davis... someone that's going to bring star power, identity, and leadership to the team. Maybe I'm just judging things wrong, but I don't see Rip or Kwame really filling that kind of role. I'd quietly inquire around to see if we could deal Kwame (and Rip if anyone's interested) to get one of those PGs.

Yeah, we might be a season away from the best time to make a deal like that, but I see it coming.


----------



## TerpSam

The Wizards lineup depends on a lot of factors, especially Jordan. Personally, I think the lineup will change form time to time depending on the Wizard's executions of the triangle or a similar offense. Obviously Collins has showed interest in having Jeffries play as a point forward. This starting lineup seems quite interesting.....

PG - Jeffries (guards SF)
SG - Dixon (guards PG) or Hughes
SF - Rip (guards SG)
PF - Kwame/Laettner (depending on Kwame's development)
C - Haywood

This lineup would create some serious matchup problems for the Wizards' opposition. If Jeffries can succesfully run the point it would give the Wizards size, which is something they haven't had for a long time. Jeffries, Dixon, Rip, and Hughes are all 2's or 3's that can run the point periodically. I like what MJ and Doug are trying to do with this squad, and I'm glad Unseld isn't participating too much anymore. The onlyt thing I wouldn't want to happen is Hughes to be running th epoint regularly. This would be a mistake because Hughes could be an all-star caliber two-guard, whereas he doesn't have nearly as much of an upside at the point.


----------



## BCH

The Wizards have a lot of length.

I almost expect them to run some more zone this year with decent effect, especially when MJ is in the game. The weakness of the zone, rebounding, is a Wizards strength.


----------



## NorthEast Wiz

I want to move Hidi in the worst way. I think he has topped out and will not improve much and, even if Haywood were to go down with an injury there are few centers in the league that could really hurt us bad with a combination of Thomas and L8.

I don't care who we get in return as long as they don't have a contract that hurts us more than Hidi's.

With that, the line-up would be (without MJ):

PG - Hughes, Lue, Dixon
SG - Rip, Davis
SF - JJ, Simmons, Grizzard
PF - L8, Brown
C - Haywood, Thomas

I have us moving C. Whit and Hidi. I don't know who we get in return. 

We are still moving in the right direction, with young talent and cap room but we don't improve in last years win total.


----------



## local_sportsfan

IMO a trade involving Kwame for Dre would be along the lines of Webber 4 Richmond and Sheed 4 Strickland. Dre is what, 6 or 7 yrs older than Kwame? Big for small, young for old (or older)...Cleveland would have to throw in picks for me to even consider it. At this point, Kwame and Haywood are untouchable, unless the Wiz are come across an offer they cant refuse.

However, I would trade a package of Rip, Jeffries, or Etan for the right price. If the right price included Davis or Dre (Davis being my first choice), I would definitely consider that deal. In addition, if we were to get an all-star calibre small forward like a Shawn Marion or Rashard Lewis, I would consider that even more. I would be mroe inclined to trade for a sf because the Wiz do not need a natural pg in the pinch post offense...


----------



## amay130789

if the wizards could get these players, is this a good starting lineup?

PG - Andre Miller
SG - Larry Hughes
SF - Mike Miller
PF - Kwame Brown
C - Brendan Haywood


some guy told me this in some chatroom and since i am not a wizards fan i was wonderin if this would be a good lineup?


----------



## BCH

Its a pipe dream and it is not going to happen.


----------



## MikeDC

Well, it seems the Cavs were willing to give up Miller for Darius Miles.

Personally, I would have traded Kwame for him, and I think Kwame's got more to offer than Miles.


----------



## BCH

Miles is has more to offer commercially. People want to see him play, especially with Nike hyping him. Kwame hasn't played better or been promoted at all yet. The Cavs got someone that can fill the seats. Kwame wasn't going to do that yet.


----------



## local_sportsfan

> Originally posted by *BCH *
> Miles is has more to offer commercially. People want to see him play, especially with Nike hyping him. Kwame hasn't played better or been promoted at all yet. The Cavs got someone that can fill the seats. Kwame wasn't going to do that yet.


Exactly. Kwame wouldn't fill seats like Miles, even though Miles and Kwame are for the most part on the same level.


----------



## MikeDC

Do you guys really think people will come to see Miles? I personally don't think so. Honestly, I don't see him being hyped a lot... if you asked the average Joe on the street who's not a big sports fan, I don't think they'd know who Darius Miles is.

If I was Cleveland, I'd be marketing the hell out of DaJuan, but that's just me.


----------



## BCH

At the Phonebooth last year for the Clippers games there were a significant amount of fans wearing a Darius Miles Clipper's jersey.

I think like iverson a certain segment of the population will come see him play.


----------



## MikeDC

This is an interesting conversation in itself (and one that's relavent to the Wiz). Even if the the player himself, or his team wasn't that great in total, what players, as individuals are "draws" to you?

I would consider going to a game just to see AI play. Off the court, he's got some issues, but he's all blood, guts, and lightning quickness on the court.

Other players I'd pay to see: MJ, Garnett, Dirk and Nash, Baron Davis, Shaq and Kobe, TMac, Steve Francis, Jason Kidd, a young Scottie Pippen, Ron Artest (mostly because of his defensive intensity, but also to see if he freaks out). Reggie Miller (in the playoffs).

Guys I might pay to see in the future: Tyson Chandler, DaJuan Wagner, Jay Williams, Jason Richardson.


----------



## BCH

I am personally rarely ever drawn to an event based on the individual involved unless it is MJ.

Other than that I might pay to see Shaq once for the novelty. I am more interested in the team vs team aspect.


----------



## jazzy1

I like the team on team aspect also but there are only a few exciting players I'd pay to watch, MJ,Kobe,Vince Carter,Steve Francis, TMac and Baron Davis. That's all.


----------



## local_sportsfan

There's only three guys I would pay to see. 

1) MJ

2) Vince Carter

3) Jahidi White

OK..maybe not Jahidi.

I saw Vince play at an indoor court at Ruckers, where he caught the legendary windmill alleyoop. After he did it, the game was over...literally. The crowd ran onto the floor, cheering and hollering like madmen. After that, the refs called the game.


----------

