# 2013 Pacers Offseason Thread



## Knick Killer

No need to cram all Pacers discussion into the Daily discussion thread forever. Let's use this thread to discuss all Pacers activity in the offseason for this year.


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## Pacers Fan

Who do we all want in the draft?

I honestly don't care which position we draft. Our bench could use anything and everything. The only bench players that will undoubtedly be Pacers next year are Mahinmi and OJ. I like Johnson a lot, so I do hope that we draft either a swingman who can shoot, a PF with some size, or a PG who can actually play.

I would love any of these players: Gorqui Dieng, Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, Pierre Jackson, and Brandon Paul. Otherwise, Hardaway, Jr. and Allen Crabbe might be able to crack the rotation. Any random big, such as Adams, Olynyk, Plumlee, Withey, and Muscala, might be worth a gamble as well. I hope we stay away from the foreign bigs. 

Also keep in mind that some players are bound to fall. We could wind up with McCollum, Carter-Williams, Zeller, or even Shabazz Muhammad if his stock is really that far down. Crazier things have happened.


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## clownskull

Pacers Fan said:


> Who do we all want in the draft?
> 
> I honestly don't care which position we draft. Our bench could use anything and everything. The only bench players that will undoubtedly be Pacers next year are Mahinmi and OJ. I like Johnson a lot, so I do hope that we draft either a swingman who can shoot, a PF with some size, or a PG who can actually play.
> 
> I would love any of these players: Gorqui Dieng, Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, Pierre Jackson, and Brandon Paul. Otherwise, Hardaway, Jr. and Allen Crabbe might be able to crack the rotation. Any random big, such as Adams, Olynyk, Plumlee, Withey, and Muscala, might be worth a gamble as well. I hope we stay away from the foreign bigs.
> 
> Also keep in mind that some players are bound to fall. We could wind up with McCollum, Carter-Williams, Zeller, or even Shabazz Muhammad if his stock is really that far down. Crazier things have happened.


yeah, the bench could use some serious help. although- the 2 biggest areas i'd like to see addressed would be pg and either forward spot.
augustine was pretty much awful all year. he did have some redeeming moments here and there but he was often useless or worse than. we desperately need help there as hill can't play 48 min. a game and if he gets hurt- we are screwed. i'd say the backup pg spot is the most desperate need of this offseason. oj looks like he will be a solid contributer as well. i am fine with letting tyler walk because pendy showed he could actually play and do most of what tyler could do and he will be cheaper. 
i think the best course of action should be to assume the worst about danny and that he will not be able to return. hopefully he does and makes as close to a 100% recovery as possible but you never know. 
lance made huge strides this year in showing he can really be a positive factor (and negative sometimes too) but considering i wasn't sure if he even belonged in the nba- it is a great plus. 
mahinmi- well he had moments where he looked like a solid back for roy and moments when he looked terrible. he is a bit of a wildcard as you don't know which version will show up.
hopefully plumlee will amount to something positive for us. but- i don't know. of course he will be playing summer league but i hope frank gives him some serious pt in preseason as well. we need to really see how he can do out there and this past season just wasn't much to go by.


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## PaCeRhOLiC

Would love to get Tim Jr. 

I doubt he falls that far though, but I've been high on him since he was in Palmetto.


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## RollWithEm

Nice move: http://www.basketballforum.com/indiana-pacers/503825-roy-hibbert-takes-out-full-page-ad.html


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## clownskull

PaCeRhOLiC said:


> Would love to get Tim Jr.
> 
> I doubt he falls that far though, but I've been high on him since he was in Palmetto.


as an iu fan, i didn't like him since he went to mich. however, if he became a pacer- i would be ok with it since he can play and could help.


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## Knick Killer

Take the best player available. Our bench has a lot of room for improvement so we should just take whoever falls to us.


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## UD40

What do you guys think of Granger? Is he a Pacer next year? Is he going to be traded?


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## R-Star

UD40 said:


> What do you guys think of Granger? Is he a Pacer next year? Is he going to be traded?


I like the guy, but I don't see how we keep him. George is clearly better suited at the 3 spot than he was as a 2 guard, and its not like either George or Granger is going to come off the bench.

I think at this point you have to try to trade him. Maybe make a splash at the draft.


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## Pacers Fan

clownskull said:


> as an iu fan, i didn't like him since he went to mich. however, if he became a pacer- i would be ok with it since he can play and could help.


That's exactly how I feel about him. I disliked him all season, but he has a knack for scoring, has range, and I think he'll turn into a rotational player in the NBA. I just don't see what he gives us that OJ doesn't.

As far as Granger goes, I hope we're looking at moving him right now for a pick, guard, or just a few guys who can actually contribute off the bench. But if management isn't cool with trading him at half-price due to his injury, I'd totally be in support of him coming back next season. He seems like he's willing to defer to George, just not come off the bench.


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## clownskull

Pacers Fan said:


> That's exactly how I feel about him. I disliked him all season, but he has a knack for scoring, has range, and I think he'll turn into a rotational player in the NBA. I just don't see what he gives us that OJ doesn't.
> 
> As far as Granger goes, I hope we're looking at moving him right now for a pick, guard, or just a few guys who can actually contribute off the bench. But if management isn't cool with trading him at half-price due to his injury, I'd totally be in support of him coming back next season. He seems like he's willing to defer to George, just not come off the bench.


i don't want to trade a guy when his value is at it's worst. we won't get nearly as much as we should. as far as him starting or coming off the bench- we know he desires to start but he has to prove he is still capable of playing to that kind of level first.
so he has a bunch of work to do first.


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## R-Star

Who do you guys want to target for the bench this offseason?

I know a lot of people will probably hate it, but I wouldn't mind seeing Vince Carter take on the scorer off the bench role. Hes been pretty solid in Dallas and seems to have turned into a mature, leadership type player.


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## clownskull

R-Star said:


> Who do you guys want to target for the bench this offseason?
> 
> I know a lot of people will probably hate it, but I wouldn't mind seeing Vince Carter take on the scorer off the bench role. Hes been pretty solid in Dallas and seems to have turned into a mature, leadership type player.


frankly- i haven't much of a clue. i know you said you were ok with augustine but i am not. he had some quality moments in the playoffs but his regular season performance was among the worst i have ever seen. i haven't seen much of vince lately. perhaps he still has some gas in his tank and can still produce some because our bench production is just terrible.

the more i think about the draft though- the more i don't want hardaway or any sg that will be available. we got lance and oj already. i have heard some talk of shane larkin as a possibility but at 5-11, i fear he will get abused because of his small size the way dj was.


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## Bogg

My scenario for you guys? Flipping Granger and some mix of this years' first/future first to Washington for that Okafor/#3 package that was supposedly discussed, and then turning around and adding enough salary ballast to the pick for the Derrick Williams/#9 pairing that's available from Minny. Hopefully Burke is still sitting at #9, upgrading the bench to Burke/Young/Williams/Okafor.


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## Knick Killer

I know this class isn't great but why would the Wizards want a Danny Granger with a bad knee for the #3 pick in the draft and a respectable(yet highly paid) center? Besides Mahimi is good enough as a backup center.


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## Bogg

Knick Killer said:


> I know this class isn't great but why would the Wizards want a Danny Granger with a bad knee for the #3 pick in the draft and a respectable(yet highly paid) center? Besides Mahimi is good enough as a backup center.


Like I said, it's a dream scenario, and you'd have to throw in a first-rounder somewhere if we're even kicking the idea around. However, Washington's trying to put enough decent veterans around Wall and Beal to get them playoff reps with the idea that they have future all-stars in those two. With a few lottery teams from last year gearing up for playoff runs and Boston threatening to rebuild on the fly by essentially swapping Pierce for Josh Smith, Washington needs a "right now" upgrade to make sure they don't end up finishing tenth and in the lottery again.


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## ATLien

I have read rumors about Atlanta being interested in Granger for two middle firsts, but if Wasington is offering a top three pick, Indiana should take it.


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## Bogg

I don't like Granger for #17 and #18, but if you could take one of those picks out and stick a Jeff Teague S&T in its' place, that would probably be attractive to Indy.


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## ATLien

I like him, because he keeps the team competitive and is an expiring $14 million contract. Can Indiana afford Jeff Teague? Last I heard, he was seeking something around $10 million per season.


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## Bogg

Oh, I don't mind the deal for Atlanta, I would just want more of a return if I were Indy. If Teague's really looking for that much he can just move one, though.


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## Knick Killer

Solomon who? Done a lot of reading up on him since we drafted him and apparently he was projected mid-to-late second round pick. There must be something about him we loved to reach that far for the guy.


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## Pacers Fan

I was pretty pissed when we took Hill, but upon further research, I realize that I've actually watched him play a few times and just not noticed him at all. I think he'll cover the Sam Young role for us by playing spot minutes at the 2/3/4, playing solid defense, and making open 3s (unlike Young). He seems like a fairly intelligent guy with a good work ethic. I think he'll fit in with Hibbert and Paul George.

I definitely liked some other players, but I wasn't too hyped up on anyone at that point. We weren't going to hit a home run in this draft, so I suppose it's good enough that we make Gerald Green more expendable and take a guy who might be able to stick around the end of our bench for a few years. I'd rather have a veteran FA play backup 4 and backup 1 than a rookie, anyway.


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## Knick Killer

Pacers Fan said:


> I was pretty pissed when we took Hill, but upon further research, I realize that I've actually watched him play a few times and just not noticed him at all. I think he'll cover the Sam Young role for us by playing spot minutes at the 2/3/4, playing solid defense, and making open 3s (unlike Young). He seems like a fairly intelligent guy with a good work ethic. I think he'll fit in with Hibbert and Paul George.
> 
> I definitely liked some other players, but I wasn't too hyped up on anyone at that point. We weren't going to hit a home run in this draft, so I suppose it's good enough that we make Gerald Green more expendable and take a guy who might be able to stick around the end of our bench for a few years. I'd rather have a veteran FA play backup 4 and backup 1 than a rookie, anyway.


Yeah I guess this guy will be Sam Young's replacement and a slightly better upgrade. Nothing to get overly excited about but he sounds like a nice guy to have off the bench. A "Jack of All Trades" is what I kept seeing people refer to him as which is never a bad thing I suppose.


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## Pacers Fan

Knick Killer said:


> Yeah I guess this guy will be Sam Young's replacement and a slightly better upgrade. Nothing to get overly excited about but he sounds like a nice guy to have off the bench. A "Jack of All Trades" is what I kept seeing people refer to him as which is never a bad thing I suppose.


It beats a Jack-Of-No-Trades, which is what we got last year in Miles Plumlee.


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## Gonzo

I wasn't super hyped about the draft, more interested in the guys off the court this offseason. 

Bird is back and McMillen coming in? Not bad moves.


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## UD40

Hypothetically speaking, say West signs elsewhere. What are the chances you guys build a package around Granger to send to Portland for Aldridge?


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## 29380




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## R-Star

Great pickup. He'll be a nice spark off the bench.


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## Knick Killer

We desperately needed a shooter off the bench. Great pick up. 


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## PaCeRhOLiC

Like it, I just hope Cope doesn't turn out to be another Green type of signing.


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## Knick Killer

PaCeRhOLiC said:


> Like it, I just hope Cope doesn't turn out to be another Green type of signing.


I was thinking the same thing actually. Luckily it's only 2 years.


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## Tom

Looks like the Pacers got a great draft pick. His game will translate well. He may be too awesome for the teams own good. The positions is going to be crowded.


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## Pacers Fan

PaCeRhOLiC said:


> Like it, I just hope Cope doesn't turn out to be another Green type of signing.


I fully expect him to. Outside of his 3-point shot, he has absolutely nothing that makes him belong in the NBA. I really hope we're not finished with our off season, but it looks like it.

By losing Hansbrough and replacing him with Copeland, we've negated our previous size/rebounding advantage over most teams. It's not like West can jump or is a particularly good rebounder (he is a bull, though), and now we're looking at playing SFs (Granger, Copeland, and Hill) behind him. Hibbert, to an extent Ian, and Lance (for his position) are going to be keeping us alive on the boards next season.

I really, really hope we do something with our 15th roster spot. As of now, we have 4 bigs and the 4th one is Miles Plumlee. Even if one of the guys from our summer league makes it, it's not like Justin Harper, Christian Watford (the IU fan in me really hopes we sign him), or Rasual Butler will do anything for us.

As far as CJ Watson goes, I'm glad he's at least decent. We know he's not tiny and that he can shoot, which is better than the last 2 backup PGs we've had. 

Now, Solomon Hill has looked pretty good in the summer league. I think he'll get Orlando Johnson-type minutes next season, while OJ might not see any minutes.

And finally, Plumlee looks like he's improved enough to play garbage minutes. I still don't want to see him anywhere near the rotation. Get us another big, Larry.


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## Knick Killer

Yeah I'm hoping we bring in another big. Copeland will stretch the floor but we still really need a rebounding/defensive big. 


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## Jamel Irief

R-Star said:


> Great pickup. He'll be a nice spark off the bench.


Championship signing 


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## Bogg

Jamel Irief said:


> Championship signing


To be fair, Copeland played well for a playoff team last year, while Wes Johnson has failed to produce every time he's been given a shot in the NBA. Teams are still taking shots on Johnson because of what he did in college.


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## Tom

Who are the pacers best shooters?


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## Pacers Fan

Granger, George, Copeland, Hill, and Watson, probably in that order. Johnson, Stephenson, and Solomon Hill can knock down shots at a decent clip as well.


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## Knick Killer

Love the Luis Scola addition. Call me crazy but I think this current roster has what it takes to win it all. We haven't made any drastic moves this off season, but the moves we have made have all been good in my eyes. 

CJ Watson, Chris Copeland, Solomon Hill, Luis Scola and now a healthy Danny Granger makes our team very very dangerous. 


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## R-Star

Knick Killer said:


> Love the Luis Scola addition. Call me crazy but I think this current roster has what it takes to win it all. We haven't made any drastic moves this off season, but the moves we have made have all been good in my eyes.
> 
> CJ Watson, Chris Copeland, Solomon Hill, Luis Scola and now a healthy Danny Granger makes our team very very dangerous.
> 
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


Yep. If things go our way I could see us really having a shot at taking it all next year.


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## Knick Killer

Does anyone still see Danny Granger being traded this off-season? Personally I think we're set and I don't want to see us make any more moves(other than maybe sign another big man for cheap).


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## Pacers Fan

Since we brought in Scola, I really like our bench now. I feel like we're going to run a 9-man rotation with Mahinmi/Scola/Lance (Granger)/Watson off the bench, with Copeland seeing spot minutes at the 3/4. Unfortunately, OJ and Solomon Hill won't get any burn, and hopefully Sloan won't have to.

That leaves us with 13 players, and really only 4 bigs. I'm more than fine with Copeland, Hill, and Granger seeing some time at the 4 due to foul trouble or injury, but I am not fine with Scola or West seeing time at the 5 due to foul trouble or injury to Mahinmi/Hibbert. Without Pendy/Plumlee, we have almost zero insurance now at the 5. I have to think we'll be targeting a semi-legitimate 5 with our 14th (and likely final) roster spot. Any ideas? Plumlee actually would've been perfect as a guy with size and mobility to throw out there for a few minutes a game and not complain. Looking at available free agents, we can shoot for Cole Aldrich, Gustavo Ayon, Chris Wilcox, Anthony Tolliver, Aaron Gray or Earl Barron. Eh?


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## Knick Killer

I wouldn't mind Aaron Gray at all. He'd be an ideal 3rd string center. 


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## R-Star

Knick Killer said:


> Does anyone still see Danny Granger being traded this off-season? Personally I think we're set and I don't want to see us make any more moves(other than maybe sign another big man for cheap).


Only way I see trading Granger is if we can swing him for an allstar caliber 2 guard so that George can stay at the 3. Otherwise we may as well just keep him.

I don't see George thriving if he moves back to the 2 though, and I also don't see Danny being ok coming off the bench, so I really don't see how this will work.


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## Knick Killer

Hopefully Danny back doesn't **** up our chemistry. Honestly though after so many frustrating/shitty seasons with this team, you'd think Danny could suck it up and come off the bench for a chance to win the NBA Title. He will still play huge minutes and who knows could even win sixth man of the year.


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## R-Star

It would be nice. I'm just a little scared. Danny being our 6th man is just took good to expect.


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## clownskull

Pacers Fan said:


> Since we brought in Scola, I really like our bench now. I feel like we're going to run a 9-man rotation with Mahinmi/Scola/Lance (Granger)/Watson off the bench, with Copeland seeing spot minutes at the 3/4. Unfortunately, OJ and Solomon Hill won't get any burn, and hopefully Sloan won't have to.
> 
> That leaves us with 13 players, and really only 4 bigs. I'm more than fine with Copeland, Hill, and Granger seeing some time at the 4 due to foul trouble or injury, but I am not fine with Scola or West seeing time at the 5 due to foul trouble or injury to Mahinmi/Hibbert. Without Pendy/Plumlee, we have almost zero insurance now at the 5. I have to think we'll be targeting a semi-legitimate 5 with our 14th (and likely final) roster spot. Any ideas? Plumlee actually would've been perfect as a guy with size and mobility to throw out there for a few minutes a game and not complain. Looking at available free agents, we can shoot for Cole Aldrich, Gustavo Ayon, Chris Wilcox, Anthony Tolliver, Aaron Gray or Earl Barron. Eh?


if we need to, we can put scola at the 5 for spot minutes.
he isn't ideal at that spot but he can do it. 
this team is looking pretty damned stocked now. very pleased with the scola pickup. if granger is healthy and good enough to start, that means we got lance and louis off the bench to give us some actual production as compared to these last 2 years where we weren't getting squat.
i am actually excited about our bench rather than bummed out. i think scola is better than either pendy (who is no bigger than scola) or plumlee (granted he hasn't really played but i will just go on a hunch)


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## R-Star

So, we're the team finally. The team everyone finally takes notice of and then jumps on the bandwagon and overrates the shit out of them in the pre season. 

We're the new contender. The one people are saying they're picking to to upset the Heat. Louis Scola is all of the sudden the championship signing of the summer and the rich just got richer.

And to balance our new "fans" there's guys picking the Nets, Bulls and Knicks over us.


So obviously none of these people represent us. Where do you guys see us next year? Actually that's a dumb question. Posting with you guys I know where we all see us next year. Taking one more step forward or its not a successful season, and making it to game 7 last year means its Finals or bust. I guess a better question would be, how do all these new fans rub you? I don't like it personally. I don't like all these guys running around saying how great we are and how they always liked our team. They laughed at us going into last season, then slowly came on board come playoffs. I don't consider people like that real fans.


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## clownskull

R-Star said:


> So, we're the team finally. The team everyone finally takes notice of and then jumps on the bandwagon and overrates the shit out of them in the pre season.
> 
> We're the new contender. The one people are saying they're picking to to upset the Heat. Louis Scola is all of the sudden the championship signing of the summer and the rich just got richer.
> 
> And to balance our new "fans" there's guys picking the Nets, Bulls and Knicks over us.
> 
> 
> So obviously none of these people represent us. Where do you guys see us next year? Actually that's a dumb question. Posting with you guys I know where we all see us next year. Taking one more step forward or its not a successful season, and making it to game 7 last year means its Finals or bust. I guess a better question would be, how do all these new fans rub you? I don't like it personally. I don't like all these guys running around saying how great we are and how they always liked our team. They laughed at us going into last season, then slowly came on board come playoffs. I don't consider people like that real fans.


yeh, it's a funny thing how when someone/some team gets successful, all of a sudden people start becoming fans etc. kind of like when someone wins the lottery and all these relatives and 'friends' you have not seen in ages - if ever, start wanting to get in touch with you.
bandwagoners exist in all major sports unfortunately. they hop on board with any program that they think can win it all and claim they have been fans for a long time which of course is total bullshit.
i have been a fan way before it started to be cool- through crappy times, through some good times and then crappy times all over again.
it was a long and even depressing time after the brawl- to have a team capable of winning it all but loaded with selfish divas who chose personal agendas over team goals and then the murphleavey/obrien years.
there were times when i even asked myself why i bother caring about the team but, it does feel nice to see the squad coming together.


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## Gonzo

Where are these fans you guys are speaking about?


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## R-Star

Gonzo said:


> Where are these fans you guys are speaking about?


Look around the main board. Or just check out all the people in sports media jumping on. We're the new _it_ team in the East.


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## RollWithEm

Frank Vogel said:


> “It’s really exciting. Danny is on schedule, looks really good, he’s making progress each week and we’re hoping that were going to be having a full-strength Danny Granger this year to add to this team that made a lot of noise last year.”


*Pacers.com*

So there's that.


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