# McDonald's Game Evaluations...



## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

I've gotta say, I was impressed with this game overall. Kids are realizing that the NBA scouts are looking for more than just dunks, and that they have to impress the scouts to get into the first round. There was more hustle and defense in this game than in any of the last 5 or so that I have watched. It could have had something to do with the talent level being down so players had to do more skill-related things to show off their strengths, but I really enjoyed watching this one. 

Gerald Green - Once again showed the insane natural tools that make him a lock lotto pick in this draft. Has more hops than any HS guy in last year's draft, and tonight he showed that he has the shot. He gets his shot off quickly, and my oh my is it pretty! Quite frankly, I don't see why Green can't go in the top 5. Nearly everybody in the lotto at the moment has some serious downside, and Green is ALL upside. He blew every other prospect out of the water, and that driving dunk that he got fouled on and still threw down on was just unreal. What a prospect! 

Andrew Bynum - Absolutely dwarfed everybody out there, so he probably looked a bit better than he actually is. Most years there would be other players out there similar to his size. Still, he's got to be 7'0 +, he runs the floor well, has good post instincts, and seems to be somewhat coordinated. He is probably the most intriguing center prospect to play college ball since David Harrison, and if he keeps improving the way that he has been, he probably won't stick around at the NCAA level very long. 

Josh McRoberts - I like him as a college player quite a bit. A legit 6'11 post player that can go inside and outside. Very smooth athleticism, nice touch on the ball, though I don't know how much he showed it tonight. One of the few prospects out there that could legitimately think about declaring. 

Julian Wright - Another player like Nate Minnoy that doesn't really fit the mold of one standard basketball position. Seemingly all arms, Wright has freakish athleticism, good vision and ballhandling ability, and defensive intensity, but little offensive game. At 6'8, he is going to be very effective for Bill Self next year, even though he might not score many points. As far as the NBA goes, it looks like he's got a decent floor game and could end up playing a Scottie Pippen-type point forward. He definitely moves like a wing and has the court vision, but his offensive game needs desperate work. A couple of years at Kansas will make him a lotto pick, if the offense improves as expected. 

Amir Johnson - One of the harder players to figure out, Johnson shows downright incredible athleticism and very intriguing potential as a shotblocker. He gets up and down the floor like a guard, and is a monster on the glass. Not only is he athletic, but he has a certain smoothness to his game. He isn't a bad ballhandler or shooter either. However, his offensive game is very, very raw. I wanted to see this guy convert a post move very badly, but every time he got the ball down low he would either bobble/lose it or get fouled. I don't think he's the 6'11 that he was listed at for the Roundball, but is probably at least in the 6'9+/6'10 range. Johnson probably needs to go to Louisville for a year and develop his scoring moves quite a bit, but depending on how much PT he gets next to Palacios and Padgett, he could be a one-and-done type talent. 

Richard Hendrix - Hendrix has talked about going straight to the league, and while I don't see that happening, there's no doubt he will be a program-changing player for Alabama. I was a bit skeptical of his listed 6'9 height, but that appears to be legit. He is very, very thick for his size, probably the 2nd biggest player overall out there tonight. Several times my first imrpession was, "who is that big guy?", thinking I was looking at a 6'10 or 6'11 C. He's not a show-stopping athlete, but more of a fundamentally strong banger type, like an Elton Brand or Wayne Simien. Eventually he moves on the NBA, and makes a decent living. 

Louis Williams - First things first, this guy should not even be considering the NBA. He's got nice athleticism and a fundamentally sound jumper, but he's still a 6'2 WG all the way. This guy is closer to Shannon Brown than Allen Iverson, and that's not a complement coming from an draft perspective. He didn't touch the ball nearly enough tonight, and didn't exactly make good decisions in ballhandling situations the few times he found himself in one. As a scorer he looked nice, but never really wowed me off the dribble. A scoring guard that small had better be able to get to the basket at will, and Williams certainly didn't show that. A nice player for Georgia to recruit, but I don't know about the NBA. 

Greg Paulus - Obviously a headsy PG, but I'm already annoyed at the way he plays. This is an all-star game. When Gerald Green is streaking down the floor for the signature play of the night, THROW THE @!&$%$! ALLEYOOP! BOOOOOOOO!!!! Other than that, I didn't see a guy who has the athleticism to make it on the next level, though Paulus is going to be a very good ACC PG. And yeah, Jay Williams, we know he's going to Dook. We know you like him. Talk about somebody else, you second coming of Dookie V. 

Martell Webster - Not impressed here at all. He has a decent body, but will clearly be stuck at the WF position. He doesn't move like a pure guard, and doesn't have the skill either. Might be able to overpower people at the HS level, but probably not in college and certainly not in the pro's. He hit a couple of shots early, but I didn't like the mechanics or the feel. Solid athlete, but not a standout. 

CJ Miles - Not what I was expecting, but not all bad either. Very skinny, solid but not spectacular athlete. Good outside shooter who probably needs to work on other aspects of his game. People who think he's going to be a first round draft pick need to lay off the pipe. Miles could be ready after a couple of years at Texas, though. 

Danny Green - I don't think Green is used to the frenetic pace of the high school all star game, and his tendency to hang on to the ball hurt him a bit tonight. Not the greatest athlete in the world, but has a very nice all-around floor game. 

Byron Eaton - I wasn't as impressed with Eaton tonight. He wasn't pushing as hard, and tried forcing some things. For him to be a star at the next level, I want to see him going up and down the court full steam all the time. 

Tyler Hansborough - A guy that is going to come in and put up a double-double, but has a somewhat limited upside. Clearly likes to knock people around down low, and given his pedestrian athleticism, this clearly wasn't his platform to shine. 

Mario Chalmers - A very nice quick release on his shot. After four years of Aaron Miles, Kansas will finally have somebody that can score from the PG position. However, I really have to wonder about his handle. He palmed the ball on almost every dribble, and didn't look to be steady with the ball at all. Maybe it was just nerves, but I was very disappointed in his overall floor general skill. 

Monta Ellis - Got up really high on an attempted dunk, but there really was nothing else to see here. He's probably a better shooter than he showed tonight, but again, he has a severe case of tweeneritis. If he were to go to college and hone his PG skills under Rick Stansbury for a couple of seasons, we might have an NBA prospect on our hands. Not right now, not even close. 

Eric Boateng - Didn't do much, but showed off a very nice body. Unlike most of the taller, more athletic bigs we see in these types of games, Boateng seems to have a very developed upper body. Was able to compete in the paint as well. 

I really didn't see anything out of anybody else that really deserves mention. Once again, Tasmin Mitchell showed some skill, but looks to have a severely limited upside, even in college.


----------



## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

I scout NBA prospects, and this was written from an NBA DRAFT perspective. NBA DRAFT readers will find it interesting. If you guys don't want me to participate in your forum, I guess that is fine. I will spend an hour writing a recap and then post it over at realgm where people will actually know it exists, and then put it in my personal forum.

EDIT: since moved back. thank you.


----------



## Nimreitz (May 13, 2003)

I'll agree with that one. The NBA Draft Forum has usually been given the benefit of the doubt because everyone should be examined from an NBA Perspective. I mean, listen to the announcers last night, they were talking about NBA Potential more than anything else. And if you go back as long as the forum has been up you'll see McD's AA Game threads every year.


----------



## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

It's ridiculous. The biggest single-game event thus far for the 2005 Draft, and we can't even talk about it in the draft forum. When are people around here going to realize that facilitating good discussion is the only way to grow a message board? Moving active threads from busy (and 100% relevent) forums into dead ones is doing the exact opposite of that...


----------



## Keith Closs (May 13, 2003)

only thign i disagree with u on is martell webster, i love his game its smooth as hell, he already has a better jumper then most iin the nba, i think hes looked as nba ready as anyone aside from gerald green...


----------



## PacersguyUSA (Sep 1, 2002)

McRoberts looked better in that all-star game than he did in the two Carmel games I went to (one junior year, one senior year).


----------



## -33- (Aug 6, 2002)

to me, none of those guys stood out like guys in years past. I didn't see the kid who belongs in the NBA next fall, to me, they all needed atleast a year of college.


----------



## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

Nice analysis! It's a shame that it got moved. Agreed on most accounts, but I'll thow in my one cent.



Jonathan Watters said:


> Josh McRoberts - I like him as a college player quite a bit. A legit 6'11 post player that can go inside and outside. Very smooth athleticism, nice touch on the ball, though I don't know how much he showed it tonight. One of the few prospects out there that could legitimately think about declaring.


Agreed 100%. Could be a scary player on the collegiate level, and he has the athleticism to compete in the NBA. 



> Martell Webster - Not impressed here at all. He has a decent body, but will clearly be stuck at the WF position. He doesn't move like a pure guard, and doesn't have the skill either. Might be able to overpower people at the HS level, but probably not in college and certainly not in the pro's. He hit a couple of shots early, but I didn't like the mechanics or the feel. Solid athlete, but not a standout.


Ball-hog of the night. In the first half, McCormack compared him to Pierce because of his body...you gotta bring more than that to be compared to Pierce. In the second half, McCormack compared him to LeBron in terms of his physical build and athleticism. I nearly swallowed my ice cube. 



> Danny Green - I don't think Green is used to the frenetic pace of the high school all star game, and his tendency to hang on to the ball hurt him a bit tonight. Not the greatest athlete in the world, but has a very nice all-around floor game.


Poor man's Joe Forte. 



> Byron Eaton - I wasn't as impressed with Eaton tonight. He wasn't pushing as hard, and tried forcing some things. For him to be a star at the next level, I want to see him going up and down the court full steam all the time.


I was impressed at times, especially in the first half when he pushed the ball and forced the defense. Once he gets settled in the OSU system, I think he could be a terror in the backcourt. Might need to tone and/or slim up a bit. 



> Tyler Hansborough - A guy that is going to come in and put up a double-double, but has a somewhat limited upside. Clearly likes to knock people around down low, and given his pedestrian athleticism, this clearly wasn't his platform to shine.


Love his warrior mentality. Blue-collar and has some skills. 



> Mario Chalmers - A very nice quick release on his shot. After four years of Aaron Miles, Kansas will finally have somebody that can score from the PG position. However, I really have to wonder about his handle. He palmed the ball on almost every dribble, and didn't look to be steady with the ball at all. Maybe it was just nerves, but I was very disappointed in his overall floor general skill.


I've watched a lot of Mario, and I think he has a pretty good handle. He was probably the best PG in the pre-game scrimmages, but it's his scoring that will potentially enable him to be a star at the next level. McCormack went on about how he hadn't played very much good competition until tonight because *snicker* he lived in an igloo...I guess he didn't pay attention to last year's AAU circuit. 



> Monta Ellis - Got up really high on an attempted dunk, but there really was nothing else to see here. He's probably a better shooter than he showed tonight, but again, he has a severe case of tweeneritis. If he were to go to college and hone his PG skills under Rick Stansbury for a couple of seasons, we might have an NBA prospect on our hands. Not right now, not even close.


Cocky as hell during pre-game interviews, then sucked big time. He'll declare anyway, because he's a damn good ballplayer. But I wasn't as impressed as his hype would have me believe.


----------



## knickstorm (Jun 22, 2003)

aren't you contradicting yourself?? on the one hand you're saying how glad you were that the players were taking it seriously, the whole "I've gotta say, I was impressed with this game overall. Kids are realizing that the NBA scouts are looking for more than just dunks, and that they have to impress the scouts to get into the first round."

then you go off on Paulus for not tossing it to Green for an alley-oop?? If they were up 20 i'm sure he would've, but it was a 2 pt game, and what was the %age of alley-oops that connected? 10 maybe??

Aww boo hooo and Green got all upset. That's why he needs to go to college and grow up first before hitting the NBA. Wouldn't have seen LeBron, or Dwight Howard get all pissy cause they didn't get an alley-oop pass.


----------



## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

I don't see any of the players in today's game becoming all stars


----------



## Amplifier (Feb 7, 2005)

I figured there were 10 allstars in the class of 2001.


----------



## Kmurph (May 7, 2003)

Well I though Martell Webster looked pretty good comparably. I don't see where your coming from here. He has good size, good thick body build, good shooting stoke, although he rushed a couple of shots (but who didn't at times in this game?). Had a real nice driving layup. Seemed like a real level headed kid. Not an awesome performance, but a good one. He isn't ready for the NBA, but niether is ANY other player here.

I agree on Gerald Green....WOW....Smooth shooting stroke, ability to get his shot off at will, greaty size AND athleticism to go with it, nice use of fakes, drove to the hoop well, looked to finish strong at the hoop. He was the MVP of the game IMO. He is by far the most NBA ready, but still will take a few years to adjust\excel.

I think he is a LOCK for the top 10 and more than likely a top 5 pick. IF I were POR, I would take him over Splitter\Taft\Aleksandrov\Andriuskevicius or Deron Williams.

Wouldn't everybody?


----------



## Nimreitz (May 13, 2003)

Well, I could justify taking Taft or Deron over Green and if one of the euros blew everyone away in workouts I could justify that too. Green is very good, but I don't think he's top 5. Lottery for sure, probably the best wing in the draft; I saw him top of Chad Ford's SF board a few weeks ago and couldn't believe it, but he lived up to it tonight.

I had some thoughts in the other thread that I guess I'll reiterate here.

Green = lottery lock, great prospect although his athleticism isn't as good as people are saying. I'm sorry, but he doesn't belong in the same sentence as Josh Smith and Lebron. Those are elite athletes in the NBA to be sure, so it's not a bad thing he's not up there, but if a team takes him expecting Smith/Lebron type athleticism I think they'll be disappointed.

McRoberts, just wow. I don't know if I've been more impressed by a white high school player ever. He could use two years at Duke, but he really blew me away. I think Duke is going to be scary next year and he should DEFINITELY start if Sheldon leaves (or maybe over Shavlik anyway). Great touch, good athleticism, plays aggressive.

Bynum. I think with 3-4 years at the new Big Man U (UConn) he'll be a big time NBA prospect. Legit 7 footer, runs the floor well, and takes up a lot of space. Lovin it.

Paulus. Good vision and I know he's got a good stroke even though he was throwing up bricks tonight. Really impressed and the East was just all over the West when he was in. When Devendorf replaced him there was a noticable dropoff. I don't see much pro potential right now, but after 4 years at Duke who knows?

Hansborough. I love how he plays, I saw his team beat Oden's team earlier this year, but he either needs to bulk up a LOT or get out of the post. He's not an inside presence and was just pushed around in the post. A lot of heart, but I don't see too much upside in him.

D. Green. Sorry, but this might have been the least impressive kid of the night in my opinion. Played WEAK, just completely weak. He couldn't drive at all and it looked like that was a major strength of his. Brandon Rush didn't deserve this spot on the roster? Come on guys.

Louis Williams is not ever going to be a legit starter in the NBA. He's 6'1'' without an impressive jumpshot (although he did hit a few), but his decision making and passing were just horrendous. I remember he lead a 2 on 1 break at one point and instead of taking it to the hoop and drawing the guy to him, he just threw the ball into the defender's foot (or was it his teammate's foot) and turned it over. Just terrible. Oh, and his boy Monta didn't play enough for me to make any decision on him.

Boateng definitely needs to redshirt at Duke next year. You could really tell he just learned the game 5 years ago, I mean when he had the ball in his hands unless someone came and took it from him he was sure to make a terrible pass or poor decision. Good force in the paint though.

All in all I was only impressed by Green from an NBA standpoint, although I CAN see how McRoberts is catching the eye of NBA scouts. I don't say this many players because I think the NBA is the best place to be for legit NBA Level talent, but he needs to go to school.


----------



## Spoolie Gee (Feb 3, 2005)

> Well, I could justify taking Taft or Deron over Green and if one of the euros blew everyone away in workouts I could justify that too. Green is very good, but I don't think he's top 5. Lottery for sure, probably the best wing in the draft; I saw him top of Chad Ford's SF board a few weeks ago and couldn't believe it, but he lived up to it tonight.


In general I agree with you but from a team need point of view I cant see the Trailblazers passing on Green for Chris Taft or Deron Williams since they need a SG badly and the upside comparison between those guys is close enough that Portland would reach for a SG like Green over a PG or PF/C.


----------



## Chapstick437 (Mar 22, 2005)

I was pretty impressed with Green's athleticism and overall game. I do think that his athleticism is comparable to Lebron's and Smith's, he jumps just as high if not higher and always seemed under control. I could see him going top 10 as well. I was also pretty upset when Paulus pulled up and didn't give the alley-oop. Don't give me that crap that he was trying to win the game, its a freakin all-star game! Everyone was out there tryin to showcase themselves, no one was there for the good of the team. I do think Paulus will be a good college point though, he had exellent vision and seemed to give 100% effort.


----------



## RickyBlaze (Apr 25, 2003)

Gerald Green really impressed me in this game, I see now why they compare him to McGrady. He has a stroke like McGrady, and non-chalantly runs down the floor like McGrady. Another Kid I liked was Mario Chalmers, he single handedly brought the West back into the game... and he looks like a young Jay-Z!


----------



## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

I'm kinda worried about the team your scouting for. The way i look at it, Denver will be drafting outside the lotto. Green said he isnt going pro this summer but i will say this anyways. If Green or Webster are on the board then, I have to assume you take them no question. Green and Webster are the only two players that should consider going pro. 

You think McRoberts should consider or could consider the jump. That kid has skills but he isnt strong enough to play in the NBA. He would get pushed around and be ineffective until he puts on muscle.

Between Green and Webster personally I'd select Webster. Because Webster can handle himself on offense and defense. Webster will be a better defensive guard in the NBA than Green. Webster will play the two in the NBA. If he didnt look to score at the beginning of the game, the west would have had a nightmare game. He got off to a good start. If it was a game that meant something I doubt webster would have seen much pine.

Webster may turn out to be the better all around pro than green. I think webster will be able to hit the NBA three pointer. I dont like the Paul Pierce comparison because pierce is a one on one guy (iso) guy that slows down the offense. I dont think just because Webster is a big strong guard he should be compared to him.


----------



## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

nbanoitall said:


> Between Green and Webster personally I'd select Webster. Because Webster can handle himself on offense and defense. Webster will be a better defensive guard in the NBA than Green. Webster will play the two in the NBA.


Webster has one position and one position only in the NBA: small forward. He has nowhere near the explosivness or creativity off the dribble/screen to play SG in the NBA. Nor does have have the lateral movement required to defend NBA SGs night in, night out. Webster's major SG skills like ballhandling, passing, moving on the fast break, creation of his own shot, playing off screens and moving without the ball are not the caliber requisite of an NBA SG.



> If he didnt look to score at the beginning of the game, the west would have had a nightmare game.


Dude, Webster shooting the ball so much in the first half _was_ the reason they were in such a big hole at halftime. Once Webster quit shooting and more efficient scorers (Mario Chalmers) and passers (Julian Wright) started making plays in lieu of his incessant chucks, the West (voila!) made its big comeback. Rewind the tape and see what the lineup was when the West came back and played its best ball. Webster was one of two things: A) in the game but not getting the opportunity to shoot the ball every time he caught it, and B) not in the game.

Webster = Caron Butler. Maybe.


----------



## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

I gave a quick analysis in the ACC forum, but I'm sure none of you go there so...

Frasor was a bit disappointing. He played the SG spot on his HS team. They said he'd be takin over for Felton. Hmmm.... Hansbrough just dunks a lot. But I'm sure he can do more. He'll be good, especially once he gets in the weight room.... As for the Dukies.... WOW! Paulus is Wojo only better. Love his hustle. Love his passing. Never saw him shoot. Wait, I saw him shoot once. Not so hot, but he was like 9-10 from the line. McRoberts is just the man. Sorry, I don't feel like breaking down his game. He's just good.

As for not being "allowed" to talk about this stuff here. JW, I suggested a recruiting forum. They said they'd need a moderator. How bout you? You have my support. And, Il'l post in there all the time, even if it is just you and I.


----------



## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

Yeah, I too, was impressed by all the Duke guys. 

I thought Louis Williams looked okay, actually. If Paulus wasn't such a ball whore, Lou would have killed it.


----------



## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

I have seen Gerald Green play a few times before last night so I'm familiar with his game. He's better than JR Smith is from last year. More athletic, better handles , longer more explosive. He has more skills than Josh Smith. 

He's gonna be a helluva pro. Julian Wright kid is gonna be good in a few years also. 

I liked the activity of McRoberts. Got alittle David Lee in him to me athletically. Duke will do him well. A poor man's Laetner. Paulus over controls the bal. He doesn't move it ahead all that well. Like to dribble from point a to b. 

Lou Williams needs to go to school and learn the game.


----------



## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

Amplifier said:


> I figured there were 10 allstars in the class of 2001.


that would be the eddy curry/kwame brown class. we're still waiting for one.


----------



## adarsh1 (May 28, 2003)

isn't paulus a top quarterback in this year's class?


----------



## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

adarsh1 said:


> isn't paulus a top quarterback in this year's class?


Was. He got alot of hype because how bad New York State is in HS Football (looked awful at the Army game), but he's only going to play basketball at Duke. That's last I heard, at least.


----------



## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

ya heard right... like the dude said last night - good choice. not too many 6-2 NFL quarterbacks. although, how tall are those guys? i watch the game, but don't pay attention to height. not like paulus is gonna have a NBA future either, but whatever.


----------



## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

jazzy1 said:


> Lou Williams needs to go to school and learn the game.



Very much agree, but I have a feeling he is not going to.


----------



## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

Are you basing that just on last night's game or have you seen him several times? Just wondering because last night was the first time I've seen him play. Other than that, I've seen like 5min of recruiting video and that's it. He looked pretty good in the video, although who wouldn't - shoot, make you're own highlight clip. What are ya gonna do - put bad clips in


----------



## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

TonyM said:


> Are you basing that just on last night's game or have you seen him several times? Just wondering because last night was the first time I've seen him play. Other than that, I've seen like 5min of recruiting video and that's it. He looked pretty good in the video, although who wouldn't - shoot, make you're own highlight clip. What are ya gonna do - put bad clips in



Last night was the only time I have seen him play. But in general, from everything I've read, everyone says he is absolutely not a PG. But regardless of how he played, you can count on one hand the number of 6'1" - 6'2" SGs in the NBA that have been successful .. maybe Iverson and now Ben Gordon and only Iverson has really proven anything. Let alone coming out of HS. 

I have a feeling if Williams declares - a few years from now we won't ever hear from him again. He really needs to go to college and learn how to play PG.


----------



## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

Lou Williams is too good to completely drop out of the league.

I have seen him more than 5 times in person, most when he was a Junior, and he looked amazing. The problem is he needs the ball in his hands to make plays, and that rarely happened in this game. I think for his first year or two in the league, Lou can be a fantastic scoring punch coming off the bench, and by his 3rd year he will have developed some remote PG skills. He'll never be a true PG, but he'll definately be better than a guy like Jason Terry.


----------



## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

Agreed 100% about Williams. He's just not a PG, and hasn't shown me enough off the dribble and shot creating skill in the two games I've watched to make up for being 6'1. After a year of sharing ballhandling duties with Mike Mercer at Georgia, we could be singing a completely different tune...


----------



## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

Jonathan Watters said:


> After a year of sharing ballhandling duties with Mike Mercer at Georgia, we could be singing a completely different tune...


Why is that?

They shared the ball together when they played in the same backcourt in high school.

Sounds to me like a year at Georgia, and you people would still be drinking the same ol haterade.

JMO. 1 year isn't going to change his height.


----------



## Nimreitz (May 13, 2003)

Exactly. I don't see him ever being a top 40 player at his position no matter when he comes out.


----------



## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

Not top 40? Wow, it's getting ridiculous.


----------



## Nimreitz (May 13, 2003)

That's fine. You call it hating I'll call it my realistic opinion. A guy without a jumpshot and without the ability to create a shot who's 6'1'' and can't handle the ball? Oh yeah, he's a real gem.


----------



## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

Nimreitz said:


> That's fine. You call it hating I'll call it my realistic opinion. A guy without a jumpshot and without the ability to create a shot who's 6'1'' and can't handle the ball? Oh yeah, he's a real gem.


Says who? He can do every one of those things, and very well.


----------



## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

VincentVega said:


> Webster has one position and one position only in the NBA: small forward. He has nowhere near the explosivness or creativity off the dribble/screen to play SG in the NBA. Nor does have have the lateral movement required to defend NBA SGs night in, night out.
> 
> 
> Dude, Webster shooting the ball so much in the first half _was_ the reason they were in such a big hole at halftime. Once Webster quit shooting and more efficient scorers (Mario Chalmers) and passers (Julian Wright) started making plays in lieu of his incessant chucks, the West (voila!) made its big comeback. Webster = Caron Butler. Maybe.


Nobody else was making anything, at least he was. Guys got comfortable and more relaxed as the game went on. If it wasn't an all star game no way he sits for more than a quick breather.

Why do you have to create off the dribble to be an NBA shooting guard. I've gone online watched and researched webster. Which is why he was so high in my mock months ago. 

Webster will have a better stroke and be more of an outside shooter than butler in the NBA. maybe not his first year out, but certainly by the time he is 20 or 22.

Webster was the most capable defender on the court. He wasn't the amazing athete we saw in green, but he was still a good athlete. He will be able to say with the 2 guards.

id like to see him get the opportunity to play in the post, like a bonzi wells, and how houston played etc. Even MJ did a lot of that. 

If green goes pro this summer he will have a similar season to josh smith minus the shot blocking only if he plays for a team like atlanta.

If Webster went to a team like say Denver, i'll bet he'd earn minutes right away. He is the only guy in that game I will say that about.


----------



## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

nbanoitall said:


> Nobody else was making anything, at least he was.


Webster shot 6-15 from the field (40%). When the West made their big run, it was Chalmers (8-16 FG) and Wright (7-9 FG) who were making the smart plays and really helping their team out. Webster didn't shoot much during the big run.



> Guys got comfortable and more relaxed as the game went on. If it wasn't an all star game no way he sits for more than a quick breather.


If anything, the game got more competitive and heated as the score tightened up.



> Why do you have to create off the dribble to be an NBA shooting guard.


Because that's generally a requirement for an NBA SG -- especially one without great athleticism and without a Peja-like shot from deep.



> I've gone online watched and researched webster. Which is why he was so high in my mock months ago.


I've watched him in person. 



> Webster will have a better stroke and be more of an outside shooter than butler in the NBA. maybe not his first year out, but certainly by the time he is 20 or 22.


Sure, but Butler did/does other things with the ball that Webster just doesn't have a feel for.



> Webster was the most capable defender on the court.


No, that was Julian Wright.



> He wasn't the amazing athete we saw in green, but he was still a good athlete. He will be able to say with the 2 guards.


He's got a nice solid body and good athleticism for the college game, but underwhelming athleticism in regards to the NBA and especially for NBA guards.



> id like to see him get the opportunity to play in the post, like a bonzi wells, and how houston played etc. Even MJ did a lot of that.


That's how I'd play him as well, without negating his shooting ability, of course. 

From nbadraft.net:



> *STOCK FALLING*
> 
> *Martell Webster* -- PPG 27.1 - RPG 10.0 - APG 2.0 -- Webster is a tremendous kid and will be a nice pro someday, but the comparisons to Ray Allen, and the notion that he was a potential missing piece to the Dream Team winning the gold medal are way overstating his ability.
> 
> ...


----------



## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

nbanoitall said:


> If green goes pro this summer he will have a similar season to josh smith minus the shot blocking only if he plays for a team like atlanta.


Don't be ridiculous. As of a couple of weeks ago, I don't think Josh Smith had made one three pointer all year. He's an incredible athlete, but he's not a guard. Green moves like a guard, has a guard's release, and has the same physical attributes as Smith. A very poor comparison.

Ironically , it will be Webster that won't be able to create his own shot and will end up playing WF because he doesn't have the agility to play WG. Somewhat like Smith.


----------



## TWolvesGG2144 (Apr 2, 2005)

I've seen Green play many times, and he's legit. I was suprised with the dunks he did in the contest, because he has about 5 or 6 better ones that he didn't use. I agree that Josh Smith is a terrible comparison, Green is much more skilled. 

As far as Louis Williams goes, he needs to rework his shooting form. He has an akward sideways motion, and it's an inefficient shot, and very inconsistant. I think he could develop good pg skills in the right system, but if he declares and ends up without the right coach, he will have a mediocre career at best. The draft is deep, and picks in the 15-40 range will have similar potential, so there is no guarentee that Williams is a first if he comes out.


----------



## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

Jonathan Watters said:


> Don't be ridiculous. As of a couple of weeks ago, I don't think Josh Smith had made one three pointer all year. He's an incredible athlete, but he's not a guard. Green moves like a guard, has a guard's release, and has the same physical attributes as Smith. A very poor comparison.
> 
> Ironically , it will be Webster that won't be able to create his own shot and will end up playing WF because he doesn't have the agility to play WG. Somewhat like Smith.


josh smith was scouted as having a good stroke. he could hit the 3's from college and high school range. But in the NBA its not the same. JR who torched the nets in the game last year might barely be shooting .300 from out there for instance. 

to be a shooting guard in the league you dont need to be a creator off the dribble. come off screens, make your shots, work in the posts play good d, let the point handle the ball. many good nba players have done some or all of that. I see big things from Green, however the pasture is greener for webster in my opinion. And I wouldnt let an all star game change anyone's opinion about who they think is a good player. Its possible all the two guards everyone was raving about before the game might turn out to be good players. They just need to go to school first. Nobody but Green and Webster should enter the draft.


----------



## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

nbanoitall said:


> josh smith was scouted as having a good stroke. he could hit the 3's from college and high school range. But in the NBA its not the same. JR who torched the nets in the game last year might barely be shooting .300 from out there for instance.
> 
> to be a shooting guard in the league you dont need to be a creator off the dribble. come off screens, make your shots, work in the posts play good d, let the point handle the ball. many good nba players have done some or all of that. I see big things from Green, however the pasture is greener for webster in my opinion. And I wouldnt let an all star game change anyone's opinion about who they think is a good player. Its possible all the two guards everyone was raving about before the game might turn out to be good players. They just need to go to school first. Nobody but Green and Webster should enter the draft.


Josh Smith was scouted has having a decent stroke, no one raved about it or anything, and it was thought to still be extremely inconsistent. As for JR Smith, he shoots .300 from 3, because 90% of the time, he is just parked out behind the 3 point line, the guy has terrible shot selection. Gerald Green on the other hand has a great, smooth stroke, and can not only hit the three with consistency, but can hit mid range jumpers coming off screens, ect.. which neither JR or Josh can do. 

I agree that an all-star game shouldn't change anyones stock more than one or two picks, because it's definetly not the best time to judge a players skills, especially on the defensive end of the ball.


----------



## bballlife (Oct 5, 2003)

Green does not have the frame or strength in his body to do much of anything in his first year in the NBA, imo.


----------



## Tooeasy (Nov 4, 2003)

bballlife said:


> Green does not have the frame or strength in his body to do much of anything in his first year in the NBA, imo.


i feel the same way, however its entirely possible for him to put on 30 pounds by the start of next season, and i think if he could get around the 230 mark he'd be in pretty good shape. All depends on what kinda work ethic he has though, because that would mean some serious time in the weightroom.


----------



## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

nbanoitall said:


> to be a shooting guard in the league you dont need to be a creator off the dribble. come off screens, make your shots, work in the posts play good d, let the point handle the ball. many good nba players have done some or all of that. .


You ABSOLUTELY need to be able to score off the dribble if you want to be a star wing guard. I could make a list of the star wings in the league, and how many of them create off the dribble, but since you already know who they are and that they all create off the dribble, I'm not going to waste my time. If Martell Webster wants to be a roleplayer and come off screens his entire life, he can go ahead. But that's not a first round pick out of high school, not even close.


----------



## Kmurph (May 7, 2003)

I seem to recall JR Smith having the same deficiencies in his "in between game" as Martell Webster.

I think Webster will be able to play SG in the NBA, given time. His body type reminds me of Kirk Snyder or JR Rider.

Powerfully built guard, who will be a decent outside shooter, but has the ability to take the ball and score down low. He won't be a great defender in all likelyhood, but I think he will be a decent defender. He can play SG, if Luke Jackson or 
Wally Sczerbiak, Marquis Daniels or Travis Outlaw can, then so can Webster. He just will need some time to develop. He certainly is a 1st round pick.

My question to those of you who have seen him
is...What sort of impact do you see Gerald Green having in his 1st few NBA years?

I know that POR is considering him, and boy could they ever use a SG. Is he several years out? What sort of impact will he have. He looked impressive at the McD's game. POR needs an impact player, a guy who can step in and somewhat help hewlp right away, and I wonder if Green could do that. Maybe split time with last year's pick Sergei Monia, and possibly DA if they can't jettison him anywhere.

If Green can come in and have an effect similiar to JR or Josh Smith, then POR would be slightly better short term (another lotto year probable) but look very good long term (with guys like, Telfair, Zach, Krhyapa, Outlaw, Monia, & Pryzbilla). Any thoughts appreciated.


----------



## BigMac (Jan 14, 2005)

Green will have a JR Smith rookie type season.


----------



## thekid (Apr 3, 2003)

Green> JR Smith

Never been a JR fan..


----------



## CelticPagan (Aug 23, 2004)

So what if Green isn't fast as AI, and can't jump as high as Lebron? His main strength is his nice shooting touch! A quality those super-athletes wish they had.


----------



## CelticPagan (Aug 23, 2004)

Tooeasy said:


> i feel the same way, however its entirely possible for him to put on 30 pounds by the start of next season, and i think if he could get around the 230 mark he'd be in pretty good shape. All depends on what kinda work ethic he has though, because that would mean some serious time in the weightroom.



Maybe if he sits on his butt all day, injects steriods and eats pizza.
You can't put on 30 pounds of muscle in a couple of months unless you have extremly rare genetics.


----------



## KiNgJaMeZ (Jun 6, 2005)

*YOUR RIGHT! HE DOESNT have a very good work ethic tho!**Weaknesses: Effort seems suspect at times, can often be seen walking or resting on the court... Kind of has that I'll do what I want domineer when on the court, and sometimes appears to put style over substance... Also, he'll be spectacular one game, but then he'll forget to dominate...where is he? Needs to put up the monster performances that brought him where he is on a more consistent basis... Needs to bulk up, right now gets pushed around easily. Will have to improve his leg and upperbody strength to finish his drives... He has broad shoulders and a great frame, just needs to put in the work...* Still dominating high schoolers, needs to bring his game to a point where he can do it at the next level as well.

Notes: College could launch his game to a whole n'other level. Early this year, he Began making some noise in Texas, but was relatively unknown until his breakout performance at the 2004 Reebok's ABCD camp, where he averaged about 20 ppg, was named to the all-star team, and won the MVP of the all star game.

from NBADRAFT.net


----------



## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

KiNgJaMeZ said:


> *YOUR RIGHT! HE DOESNT have a very good work ethic tho!**Weaknesses: Effort seems suspect at times, can often be seen walking or resting on the court... Kind of has that I'll do what I want domineer when on the court, and sometimes appears to put style over substance... Also, he'll be spectacular one game, but then he'll forget to dominate...where is he? Needs to put up the monster performances that brought him where he is on a more consistent basis... Needs to bulk up, right now gets pushed around easily. Will have to improve his leg and upperbody strength to finish his drives... He has broad shoulders and a great frame, just needs to put in the work...* Still dominating high schoolers, needs to bring his game to a point where he can do it at the next level as well.
> 
> Notes: College could launch his game to a whole n'other level. Early this year, he Began making some noise in Texas, but was relatively unknown until his breakout performance at the 2004 Reebok's ABCD camp, where he averaged about 20 ppg, was named to the all-star team, and won the MVP of the all star game.
> 
> from NBADRAFT.net


Just because nbadraft.net says his effort might be suspect at times because of the level of competition he plays with, that does not mean he doesn't have a good work ethic. Everything else I have heard about Green from his coaches have said that he has terrific work ethic.


----------



## Tooeasy (Nov 4, 2003)

CelticPagan said:


> Maybe if he sits on his butt all day, injects steriods and eats pizza.
> You can't put on 30 pounds of muscle in a couple of months unless you have extremly rare genetics.


at the age of 19, I put on 21 pounds in a span of 3 months. Granted, I was undersized already and was more or less filling out my body, and I took alot of protein shakes that increased my bf%, buts theres absolutely no reason to think that at his age he couldn't put on some serious weight before the season starts. Its all about devotion, however, as its MUCH more difficult for someone to put on weight when they need to stay in great shape by doing insane amounts of cardio. We will just have to see, I for one would be surprised if he didn't weight 220 by the time next season tips off.


----------



## Tooeasy (Nov 4, 2003)

And for the record, Carmelo said he put on i believe 15 pounds of muscle in the offseason last year, imagine what a kid whos already skinny and has an extra 3 months to lift can do.


----------



## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

Tooeasy said:


> at the age of 19, I put on 21 pounds in a span of 3 months. Granted, I was undersized already and was more or less filling out my body, and I took alot of protein shakes that increased my bf%, buts theres absolutely no reason to think that at his age he couldn't put on some serious weight before the season starts. Its all about devotion, however, as its MUCH more difficult for someone to put on weight when they need to stay in great shape by doing insane amounts of cardio. We will just have to see, I for one would be surprised if he didn't weight 220 by the time next season tips off.


Some guys can't put on weight that easily, you know. It's not so much about weight as it is strength.


----------



## STING (May 29, 2002)

Jonathan Watters said:


> Julian Wright - Another player like Nate Minnoy that doesn't really fit the mold of one standard basketball position. Seemingly all arms, Wright has freakish athleticism, good vision and ballhandling ability, and defensive intensity, but little offensive game. At 6'8, he is going to be very effective for Bill Self next year, even though he might not score many points. As far as the NBA goes, it looks like he's got a decent floor game and could end up playing a Scottie Pippen-type point forward. He definitely moves like a wing and has the court vision, but his offensive game needs desperate work. A couple of years at Kansas will make him a lotto pick, if the offense improves as expected.


Julian Wright may not have a very developed shot, but most of his lack of offense in the game came from his mentality of being a distributer. Him and Paulus were the shining examples of what a team player should be in a game that routinely turns into an And-1 exhibition. He actually has alot of potential for becoming a prolific scorer. He's got a good handle for his size, as well as good vision (as you mentioned) and has the speed to blow by most big guys and the size and skill to effectively post up on the smaller ones. His mid-range jumper is actually pretty solid right now, and he has the potential to be an early entry lottery pick if he can stretch his effective range out to at least the college trey. He's also a very bright kid, who really isn't seeking the fame or glory that alot of prep stars bask in. When he was overwhelmingly voted Mr. Basketball of Illinois, he was quoted saying 

"If I'm Mr. Basketball—then Jon (scheyer) is Mr. Basketball Jr. It's a great honor and I feel I deserve it—but I didn't expect it. I am a little surprised. Jon had such a great season and led his team (Glenbrook North) to the state title. If Jon had won, I wouldn't have been surprised."

Not to mention Wright's all around game makes up for his meer 16ppg. He also averaged 7 boards, 4 assists, and 3 blocks per game. 

Otherwise I'd say you have an incredible knack for scouting, i didn't even notice Chalmer's tendency to palm the ball until i donwloaded some clips of his highschool games and found the same thing. I hope he fixes that soon, being a ku fan


----------

