# Game Thread, Magic vs Bulls, 7:30 PM, UC, CSN, Feb 26, 2007



## narek (Jul 29, 2005)

> The Chicago Bulls have been one of the better teams in the Eastern Conference this season, but coach Scott Skiles still feels they need to cut down on mistakes.
> 
> The Bulls try to get back on track after a tough loss when they open a three-game homestand against the slumping Orlando Magic on Monday.
> 
> ...


<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=475 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=subMatchUp align=middle>2006-07 Stats at a Glance</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle><TABLE border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=middle width=235></TD><TD align=middle width=5>@</TD><TD align=middle width=235></TD></TR><TR><TD noWrap align=middle width=235>News | Players | Stats | Schedule</TD><TD align=middle width=5> </TD><TD noWrap align=middle width=235>News | Players | Stats | Schedule</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle><TABLE border=0><TBODY><TR><TD noWrap align=middle width=235><TABLE cellPadding=2 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=inTxtB colSpan=2>Orlando Magic </TD></TR><TR><TD class=inTxtB>Record: </TD><TD class=inTxt>27 - 29 (.482)</TD></TR><TR><TD class=inTxtB>Standings: </TD><TD class=inTxt>Second, Southeast</TD></TR><TR><TD class=inTxtB>At Home: </TD><TD class=inTxt>18 - 11</TD></TR><TR><TD class=inTxtB>At Road: </TD><TD class=inTxt>9 - 18</TD></TR><TR><TD class=inTxtB>Streak: </TD><TD class=inTxt>L 3</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD><TD align=middle width=5> </TD><TD noWrap align=middle width=235><TABLE cellPadding=2 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=inTxtB colSpan=2>Chicago Bulls </TD></TR><TR><TD class=inTxtB>Record: </TD><TD class=inTxt>32 - 25 (.561)</TD></TR><TR><TD class=inTxtB>Standings: </TD><TD class=inTxt>Third, Central</TD></TR><TR><TD class=inTxtB>At Home: </TD><TD class=inTxt>22 - 7</TD></TR><TR><TD class=inTxtB>At Road: </TD><TD class=inTxt>10 - 18</TD></TR><TR><TD class=inTxtB>Streak: </TD><TD class=inTxt>W 3</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle><TABLE border=0><TBODY><TR><TD noWrap width=235><TABLE cellPadding=2 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=hr align=middle colSpan=4> Season </TD></TR><TR><TD class=inTxtB>PPG: </TD><TD class=inTxt>94.1</TD><TD class=inTxtB>Opp PPG: </TD><TD class=inTxt>93.8</TD></TR><TR><TD class=inTxtB>FG%: </TD><TD class=inTxt>.470</TD><TD class=inTxtB>Opp FG%: </TD><TD class=inTxt>.444</TD></TR><TR><TD class=inTxtB>RPG: </TD><TD class=inTxt>40.4</TD><TD class=inTxtB>Opp RPG: </TD><TD class=inTxt>38.1</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD><TD align=middle width=5> </TD><TD noWrap width=235><TABLE cellPadding=2 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=hr align=middle colSpan=4> Season </TD></TR><TR><TD class=inTxtB>PPG: </TD><TD class=inTxt>99.0</TD><TD class=inTxtB>Opp PPG: </TD><TD class=inTxt>94.7</TD></TR><TR><TD class=inTxtB>FG%: </TD><TD class=inTxt>.456</TD><TD class=inTxtB>Opp FG%: </TD><TD class=inTxt>.435</TD></TR><TR><TD class=inTxtB>RPG: </TD><TD class=inTxt>44.0</TD><TD class=inTxtB>Opp RPG: </TD><TD class=inTxt>41.6</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD align=left> Back to Top</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle><TABLE border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width=235><TABLE cellPadding=2 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=inTxtB width=115>Player</TD><TD class=inTxtB width=30>G</TD><TD class=inTxtB width=30>PPG</TD><TD class=inTxtB width=30>RPG</TD><TD class=inTxtB width=30>APG</TD></TR><TR><TD class=inTxt>Howard, D</TD><TD class=inTxt>56</TD><TD class=inTxt>18.0</TD><TD class=inTxt>12.0</TD><TD class=inTxt>1.7</TD></TR><TR><TD class=inTxt>Hill, G</TD><TD class=inTxt>42</TD><TD class=inTxt>14.7</TD><TD class=inTxt>4.1</TD><TD class=inTxt>2.4</TD></TR><TR><TD class=inTxt>Nelson, J</TD><TD class=inTxt>51</TD><TD class=inTxt>13.3</TD><TD class=inTxt>3.0</TD><TD class=inTxt>4.2</TD></TR><TR><TD class=inTxt>Turkoglu, H</TD><TD class=inTxt>47</TD><TD class=inTxt>12.1</TD><TD class=inTxt>3.5</TD><TD class=inTxt>3.0</TD></TR><TR><TD class=inTxt>Ariza, T</TD><TD class=inTxt>31</TD><TD class=inTxt>8.6</TD><TD class=inTxt>4.5</TD><TD class=inTxt>1.3</TD></TR><TR><TD class=inTxt>Arroyo, C</TD><TD class=inTxt>52</TD><TD class=inTxt>8.6</TD><TD class=inTxt>2.2</TD><TD class=inTxt>3.3</TD></TR><TR><TD class=inTxt>Dooling, K</TD><TD class=inTxt>41</TD><TD class=inTxt>8.5</TD><TD class=inTxt>1.5</TD><TD class=inTxt>1.5</TD></TR><TR><TD class=inTxt>Milicic, D</TD><TD class=inTxt>56</TD><TD class=inTxt>8.2</TD><TD class=inTxt>5.4</TD><TD class=inTxt>1.1</TD></TR><TR><TD class=inTxt>Redick, J</TD><TD class=inTxt>21</TD><TD class=inTxt>6.2</TD><TD class=inTxt>1.1</TD><TD class=inTxt>0.9</TD></TR><TR><TD class=inTxt>Battie, T</TD><TD class=inTxt>49</TD><TD class=inTxt>6.0</TD><TD class=inTxt>5.2</TD><TD class=inTxt>0.4</TD></TR><TR><TD class=inTxt>Bogans, K</TD><TD class=inTxt>46</TD><TD class=inTxt>5.2</TD><TD class=inTxt>1.5</TD><TD class=inTxt>1.1</TD></TR><TR><TD class=inTxt>Diener, T</TD><TD class=inTxt>24</TD><TD class=inTxt>4.0</TD><TD class=inTxt>0.7</TD><TD class=inTxt>1.4</TD></TR><TR><TD class=inTxt>Garrity, P</TD><TD class=inTxt>24</TD><TD class=inTxt>2.2</TD><TD class=inTxt>1.3</TD><TD class=inTxt>0.3</TD></TR><TR><TD class=inTxt>Outlaw, B</TD><TD class=inTxt>31</TD><TD class=inTxt>2.1</TD><TD class=inTxt>2.8</TD><TD class=inTxt>0.4</TD></TR><TR><TD class=inTxt>Augustine, J</TD><TD class=inTxt>2</TD><TD class=inTxt>1.0</TD><TD class=inTxt>1.5</TD><TD class=inTxt>1.0</TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=5><TABLE width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD class=ch width=80>Head Coach: </TD><TD>Brian Hill</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD><TD align=middle width=5> </TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap width=235><TABLE cellPadding=2 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=inTxtB width=115>Player</TD><TD class=inTxtB width=30>G</TD><TD class=inTxtB width=30>PPG</TD><TD class=inTxtB width=30>RPG</TD><TD class=inTxtB width=30>APG</TD></TR><TR><TD class=inTxt>Gordon, B</TD><TD class=inTxt>57</TD><TD class=inTxt>20.8</TD><TD class=inTxt>3.1</TD><TD class=inTxt>3.6</TD></TR><TR><TD class=inTxt>Deng, L</TD><TD class=inTxt>57</TD><TD class=inTxt>18.8</TD><TD class=inTxt>7.2</TD><TD class=inTxt>2.1</TD></TR><TR><TD class=inTxt>Hinrich, K</TD><TD class=inTxt>55</TD><TD class=inTxt>16.2</TD><TD class=inTxt>3.5</TD><TD class=inTxt>6.3</TD></TR><TR><TD class=inTxt>Nocioni, A</TD><TD class=inTxt>48</TD><TD class=inTxt>14.8</TD><TD class=inTxt>5.9</TD><TD class=inTxt>1.1</TD></TR><TR><TD class=inTxt>Duhon, C</TD><TD class=inTxt>53</TD><TD class=inTxt>7.5</TD><TD class=inTxt>2.3</TD><TD class=inTxt>4.3</TD></TR><TR><TD class=inTxt>Wallace, B</TD><TD class=inTxt>54</TD><TD class=inTxt>6.3</TD><TD class=inTxt>10.5</TD><TD class=inTxt>2.1</TD></TR><TR><TD class=inTxt>Brown, P</TD><TD class=inTxt>48</TD><TD class=inTxt>5.8</TD><TD class=inTxt>4.8</TD><TD class=inTxt>0.5</TD></TR><TR><TD class=inTxt>Allen, M</TD><TD class=inTxt>41</TD><TD class=inTxt>4.0</TD><TD class=inTxt>2.0</TD><TD class=inTxt>0.3</TD></TR><TR><TD class=inTxt>Thomas, T</TD><TD class=inTxt>48</TD><TD class=inTxt>3.6</TD><TD class=inTxt>2.9</TD><TD class=inTxt>0.4</TD></TR><TR><TD class=inTxt>Sweetney, M</TD><TD class=inTxt>34</TD><TD class=inTxt>3.6</TD><TD class=inTxt>2.6</TD><TD class=inTxt>0.7</TD></TR><TR><TD class=inTxt>Sefolosha, T</TD><TD class=inTxt>51</TD><TD class=inTxt>3.4</TD><TD class=inTxt>2.0</TD><TD class=inTxt>0.9</TD></TR><TR><TD class=inTxt>Khryapa, V</TD><TD class=inTxt>22</TD><TD class=inTxt>2.5</TD><TD class=inTxt>2.3</TD><TD class=inTxt>0.9</TD></TR><TR><TD class=inTxt>Barrett, A</TD><TD class=inTxt>3</TD><TD class=inTxt>2.0</TD><TD class=inTxt>1.3</TD><TD class=inTxt>2.0</TD></TR><TR><TD class=inTxt>Griffin, A</TD><TD class=inTxt>36</TD><TD class=inTxt>1.9</TD><TD class=inTxt>1.7</TD><TD class=inTxt>1.1</TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=5><TABLE width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD class=ch width=80>Head Coach: </TD><TD>Scott Skiles</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
http://www.nba.com/games/20070226/ORLCHI/preview.html


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## Phoenix32 (Nov 1, 2006)

It won't be easy game for Magic, but how long they could loose game after game??? One day it must be finished and I wish this day gonna be todinght  

to narek:

Correct some mistakes, Magic record is 27-30, Bulls 32-26


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## step (Sep 19, 2005)

The Bulls will never lose another game!


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## narek (Jul 29, 2005)

Phoenix32 said:


> It won't be easy game for Magic, but how long they could loose game after game??? One day it must be finished and I wish this day gonna be todinght
> 
> to narek:
> 
> Correct some mistakes, Magic record is 27-30, Bulls 32-26


Hey, I just stole this from nba.com. They're slow updating records after a night of games.


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## Phoenix32 (Nov 1, 2006)

Chill out  Everything is ok, I just saw a mistake and replied, no offense :cheers:


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## King Joseus (May 26, 2003)

Ben Gordon's jersey will earn the first win of the moderator era.

Bulls 95
Magic 90


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## rosenthall (Aug 1, 2002)

The Magic have been playing like a bottom five team for the past 5-6 weeks. I think the Bulls will win this one pretty easily.

Bulls 102
Magic 90


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## nitric (Dec 14, 2006)

Gordon going for 40


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## bre9 (Jan 8, 2006)

nitric said:


> Gordon going for 40


At least 30


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## Flash is the Future (May 12, 2006)

Go Bulls!!!!!!


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## Krimzon (Feb 26, 2007)

I think the Bulls are going to win.

Bulls 98
Magic 90


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## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

Why the hell do we pass the ball to Wallace so much? You'd think he was Sabonis/Divac or something.


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## nitric (Dec 14, 2006)

GORDON is on FIRE!


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## Orange Julius Irving (Jun 28, 2004)

Who is Darko Millicic, an All-Star? 5-6 with 7 boards already.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

Orange Julius Irving said:


> Who is Darko Millicic, an All-Star? 5-6 with 7 boards already.


No, he's a post player. They're useful.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

Stacey King makes a good point. Why do we have such terrible spacing on our fast breaks? The wing players need to run a little further away from the center of the court. Then, when they get the ball, they have to attack.

We're so horrible on breaks. Even Deng, our best finisher, is a below average finisher for a small forward.


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## Orange Julius Irving (Jun 28, 2004)

Darius Miles Davis said:


> No, he's a post player. They're useful.


It was a joke. 

I knew the Bulls would get blown out in this game because it's their strength against The Bull's utter weakness.

That is why we lost so miserably to a horrid Charlotte team. Whenever the Bulls play against superior Big men they get beat, bad.

The Bulls are shooting horribly and can't get any rebounds. Is Ben Wallace playing?

BTW, I see what you were saying about the Fast Break, probably one the worst teams at it.


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## sov82 (Nov 5, 2003)

nice lineup


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## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

Yep, we can definitely win it all this year.


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## RSP83 (Nov 24, 2002)

Sweets just got called for offensive foul because he's fat.


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## rwj333 (Aug 10, 2002)

Duhon-Griffin-Sefolosha-Allen-Sweetney. UGHGHGHGHG.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

rwj333 said:


> Duhon-Griffin-Sefolosha-Allen-Sweetney. UGHGHGHGHG.


Skiles seems unhappy with the starting crew.


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## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

YAYYY we finished a layup!!!


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## DengNabbit (Feb 23, 2005)

Stacey King has a lot of love for Sweets

wow i didnt realize how funny that sentence is


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## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

UGH Skiles can't wait to put Duhon on the floor. BG picks up his 2nd foul and gets benched


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

Ben Gordon has a big butt, bigger than my girl's over there <----. Maybe Skiles just likes to put Gordon's big butt to use? Why isn't he playing, and got benched? 12 pts 3 ast seems solid enough to me.


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## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

Gotta get Deng some post up opportunities. Orlando's pretty much taken away his open 18 footers and are making him put it on the floor. Deng's been a nonfactor because of it.


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## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

Mebarak said:


> Ben Gordon has a big butt, bigger than my girl's over there <----. Maybe Skiles just likes to put Gordon's big butt to use? Why isn't he playing, and got benched? 12 pts 3 ast seems solid enough to me.



I know. Since when does 2 fouls mid-way through the 2nd qtr land a player on the bench?? Especially when our offense looks dreadful w/o Gordon on the floor.


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## giusd (Apr 17, 2003)

Is there some serious fing reason that when are PF are playing like total dog ****tt Thomas does nothing but sit on the bench. He is our most athletic big man and skiles will not play him.

I like skiles but he is just be stupid about playing thomas and Thabo. He has a line up of total stiffs out there.

PJ is what 0 for 3 and Allan is 2 for 7. I mean how bad to are weak asss PF have to play before TT plays. He has looked super lately and the team can really use some energy and skiles plays a bunch of weak PF and they getting killed. MAYBE we could play are best fing PF???????

david


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## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

Running pick n roll w/ the incompetent Wallace when you can take the last shot is just dumb decision making from Gordon. He's gotta know the opponent will trap him and make him give up the ball.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

This is why Skiles can't be our coach for much longer.

He just isn't built to win a championship. Duhon is that guy you put in when nothing is working and he comes up big in one game in the NBA finals, not the guy you play like 24-30 minutes every night.

Come on. We have Ben Gordon, one of the best scorers in the league (18th in ppg...and that is with his limited touches/playing time). Kirk Hinrich, he ain't Ben Gordon, but he has a pretty sweet three point shot as well, and can pass. Both Gordon and Hinrich play great defense. We are beyond the point of Gordon's defense being bad, he has improved it to the level where its good. We have Luol Deng who is almost an automatic like 18 points. We got Tyrus, who is a defensive demon, who changes the games with his athleticism. We got Thabo who gives us height and defense and the best passing on the team from the two spot off the bench (under utilized just like TT). We got Ben Wallace who is a damn good anchor to our defense, and controls the boards (especially the last few games). Skiles isn't coaching these guys right. He had his personal problems with Eddy Curry, a guy who brings big skills that we could use. He forced Tyson Chandler to the point of depression....sorry, but WTF! What kind of coach does that. 

We need a new coach. My choices for coach would be in this order.

1. Phil Jackson
2. Larry Brown (We aren't the New York Knicks...it won't be a disaster here imo)
3. Greg Popovich
4. Randy Livingston
5. Scottie Pippen


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## ballerkingn (Nov 17, 2006)

Mebarak said:


> This is why Skiles can't be our coach for much longer.
> 
> He just isn't built to win a championship. Duhon is that guy you put in when nothing is working and he comes up big in one game in the NBA finals, not the guy you play like 24-30 minutes every night.
> 
> ...


Can we just get a better list,those people are unrealistic,but i do see your point though.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

I keep waiting for a big run, but it hasn't come.


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## T.Shock (Feb 11, 2003)

I'm watching GameCast. Why has Tyrus played one minute and Malik played 16 minutes especially when Malik is 3-9. Damnit Skiles get Tyrus on the court.


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## Orange Julius Irving (Jun 28, 2004)

T.Shock said:


> I'm watching GameCast. Why has Tyrus played one minute and Malik played 16 minutes especially when Malik is 3-9. Damnit Skiles get Tyrus on the court.


How about PJ, 0-7?????? 2 rebounds


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## darlets (Jul 31, 2002)

Darko and Dwight, quite the handful.

Must be Gordon time 7 to go all tied up.


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## Flash is the Future (May 12, 2006)

Mebarak said:


> This is why Skiles can't be our coach for much longer.
> 
> He just isn't built to win a championship. Duhon is that guy you put in when nothing is working and he comes up big in one game in the NBA finals, not the guy you play like 24-30 minutes every night.
> 
> ...


SVG would probably work too. And he's available. Unless he really did retire just for his family.


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## lgtwins (May 18, 2004)

Kirk, this guy simply doesn't have a grasp that he is cold today. He simply has take up his quota, it seems?


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## lgtwins (May 18, 2004)

Thank you, Kirk.


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## lgtwins (May 18, 2004)

Thank you, Ben.


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## rwj333 (Aug 10, 2002)

Bulls can't score when needed. Game over.


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## TripleDouble (Jul 26, 2002)

This team has no stones in the clutch.


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## BullsAttitude (Jun 11, 2002)

Boy, the refs aren't helping the Magic on this one are they?


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## ballerkingn (Nov 17, 2006)

Remember its all skiles and the players fault not john pax's he did his job.


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## BeZerker2008 (Jun 29, 2006)

Can anyone say *choke*.


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## lgtwins (May 18, 2004)

Wow, that was the play coming off the timeout. Kirk, COLD, Kirk 3 pointer?


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## ballerkingn (Nov 17, 2006)

BullsAttitude said:


> Boy, the refs aren't helping the Magic on this one are they?


No i think the person who didn't do anything during the trading deadline is as fault that you didn't hear that from me alright i don't want to get in trouble.


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## rwj333 (Aug 10, 2002)

Nelson took a stupid shot with 14 seconds on the shot clock, but made it. Should have milked the clock.

Orlando has lost 15 of their last 21 and their last 6 road games according to the broadcast crew.


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## rwj333 (Aug 10, 2002)

Can't believe Gordon hit that 3. Probably won't matter though.


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## lgtwins (May 18, 2004)

ballerkingn said:


> Remember its all skiles and the players fault not john pax's he did his job.


So now you are using spacebar after all thse posts only not to use "period?"


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## lgtwins (May 18, 2004)

Thank you, Kirk. You are useless.


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## ballerkingn (Nov 17, 2006)

lgtwins said:


> So now you are using spacebar after all thse posts only not to use "period?"



learn to type english english english i tell you damit.


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## rwj333 (Aug 10, 2002)

Bulls down by 4, Kirk goes for 2.


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## BullsAttitude (Jun 11, 2002)

I'm not trying to make excuses but this was our 4th game in 5 nights. We should have won and the part that made me mad was when Orlando took an 88-82 lead, it was all on free throws. Rebounding and bad shooting killed us tonight! 

I just get pissed that teams like Orlando play great against us but suck against the Knicks, Raptors, etc.


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## rwj333 (Aug 10, 2002)

BullsAttitude said:


> I'm not trying to make excuses but this was our 4th game in 5 nights. We should have won and the part that made me mad was when Orlando took an 88-82 lead, it was all on free throws. Rebounding and bad shooting killed us tonight!
> 
> I just get pissed that teams like Orlando play great against us but suck against the Knicks, Raptors, etc.


Rebounding and bad shooting is what happens when the other team has great big men.


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## BullsAttitude (Jun 11, 2002)

lgtwins said:


> Thank you, Kirk. You are useless.


It's not like Gordon was tearing it up tonight, he got it stolen by Hedo in the final minutes! The whole team tonight was worthless!


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## theanimal23 (Mar 2, 2005)

Caught the last few minutes of the game on SopCast. Kirk Hinrich lost it for us. I didn't see any of the game prior to the last few minutes, but to the point where he fouled Nelson before the inbounds and afterward, he lost us the game.

The guy seriously plays like an idiot with his D. He has the rep for D still, and it's good some nights, EDIT - no avoiding the filter, please


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## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

We just could not secure a rebound. If there ever was a game where super Ben Wallace was needed, it was this one.


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## BeZerker2008 (Jun 29, 2006)

BullsAttitude said:


> I'm not trying to make excuses but this was our 4th game in 5 nights. We should have won and the part that made me mad was when Orlando took an 88-82 lead, it was all on free throws. Rebounding and bad shooting killed us tonight!
> 
> I just get pissed that teams like Orlando play great against us but suck against the Knicks, Raptors, etc.


Yeah you are making excuses for them. This team had a chance to win this game & last night for that matter but what did they do the times they were tied, relied on the jump shot. Yes, they had open looks but set up something, that's where a low post scorer would be greatly needed. I hate the fact that this team has to do that, it happened in Detroit with Duhon taking that ill advised 3 point attempt (tied no less) with nobody surrounding the rim & it happened tonight with several jump shot attempts as well.


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## theanimal23 (Mar 2, 2005)

This team knows one thing for sure.... how to collapse

Our inconsistancies may be the reason why we won't win out of the first round this year.

You figure these guys are in the league for 3-4 years, and can show their 'maturity'. 

Kirk, you are quite solid with knowing how to conduct some [email protected]$$ fouls especially in the clutch.


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## bre9 (Jan 8, 2006)

BullsAttitude said:


> It's not like Gordon was tearing it up tonight, he got it stolen by Hedo in the final minutes! The whole team tonight was worthless!


Gordon was tearing it up, when he lost the ball it really didn't matter we were going to lose anyway.


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## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

Dwight Howard gave us a couple chances to win it at the end but the Bulls just blew their opportunities.


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## BullsAttitude (Jun 11, 2002)

BeZerker2008 said:


> Yeah you are making excuses for them. This team had a chance to win this game & last night for that matter but what did they do the times they were tied, relied on the jump shot. Yes, they had open looks but set up something, that's where a low post scorer would be greatly needed. I hate the fact that this team has to do that, it happened in Detroit with Duhon taking that ill advised 3 point attempt (tied no less) with nobody surrounding the rim & it happened tonight with several jump shot attempts as well.



I'll agree they took too many 3 pointers tonight, that goes for Kirk, Duhon and Gordon. Especially when it was tied at 80, Gordon missed one then Kirk missed one. Get a little closer, you don't have to go for the homerun ball.

What's disappointing about this loss is we played well against the Cavs, Wizards and Pistons, and then to lose to the Magic after they had lost 16 of 21, that's pathetic.


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## Orange Julius Irving (Jun 28, 2004)

For all the talk about how Pax wants and drafts guys with high BBall IQ, this team in general doesn't seem to show it when the game is close in the final minutes.

How many games has this team lost making rookie type mistakes in the clutch, while the other team makes the smart moves? 

Bulls once again giving hope to the hopeless. This was a team going down for count and needed a knock-out punch, and the Bulls give them a boost.


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## ballerkingn (Nov 17, 2006)

No we needed to score in the paint all game and couldn't,reb too was an issue,but thats what happens in basketball when people are bigger and can jump as high or higher then you.We have no 1 on our team that can match what the magic have exp for maybe TT,and he played well,but no enough,still though the magic don't match up well with us.Thier our poler opposites.


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## lgtwins (May 18, 2004)

ballerkingn said:


> learn to type english english english i tell you damit.


Like your English is that much better than mine. At least I have my excuse, what's yours?:yay:


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## TripleDouble (Jul 26, 2002)

This team is tough to root for sometimes.


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## rwj333 (Aug 10, 2002)

spongyfungy said:


> Dwight Howard gave us a couple chances to win it at the end but the Bulls just blew their opportunities.


How so? He was the reason we couldn't secure a rebound, in my opinion.


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## McBulls (Apr 28, 2005)

rwj333 said:


> Rebounding and bad shooting is what happens when the other team has great big men.


Wallace & PJ - 10 rebounds, Howard & Milicek - 32 rebounds. Overall Orlando outrebounded the Bulls 49-31. You won't win many games that way. 

Bulls really needed Nocioni tonight in the 4th game in 5 nights. Our old front line just collapsed against the younger bigs.

Skiles kept Sweetney & Allen fresh for this game, but they just didn't get the job done.


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## bre9 (Jan 8, 2006)

This game was plain to see that Orlando out rebounded the bulls.


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## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

I do have to say I enjoyed that mugging Chris Duhon did on Dwight Howard. 11 TO's by Dwight. 

outrebounded 49 to 31 

PJ Brown 0-7. That's just awful.

16 boards and 5 blocks. We got Darko'd


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## lgtwins (May 18, 2004)

TripleDouble said:


> This team is tough to root for sometimes.


Well, not really.

Frustrating to watch? Most definitely.
Tough to root for? Never! After all I have survived 6 years from the hell doing just that. Rooting for them.
And still doing it.
It's just so frustrating for them to waste chance after chance.


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## Salvaged Ship (Jul 10, 2002)

It still comes down to not having the right pieces. When we play a team with good aggressive big men we struggle. We needed a big like Gasol and should have given up Deng or Gordon. We are too small, and we have too many pieces which are exactly alike.

I have to agree with one of the other thread titles. We may in fact be doomed to being a mediocre team. All tiny guards and a tiny front line with two aging dinosaurs isn't going to cut it. Also factor in our coach, and we can expect 45 wins a first round exits yearly.


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## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

rwj333 said:


> How so? He was the reason we couldn't secure a rebound, in my opinion.


the guards were straight up robbing him. He couldn't hang on to the ball a few times. I know he made the tap after the Hedo jumper which was big but the Bulls had their chances. We chose to go small so we used the quickness of the guards to slap and steal the ball away which is fine if we can convert on the other end instead of dribbling off feet, making dumb passes etc.


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## ballerkingn (Nov 17, 2006)

lgtwins said:


> Like your English is that much better than mine. At least I have my excuse, what's yours?:yay:



Where your excuse,mine is that i just don't care what's urs and don't say the same thing.Only when i'm getting on some of you dummys i care other wise i really don't as long as i'm getting out what i want to say.If u cann't read it o well as long as I can thats all that matter to me.Still though really what's ur excuse because you said you had 1 and i really want to know?


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## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

This was an embarassing loss. Even the UC crowd was booing, I think sensing another lost season where we'll be lucky to get past the 1st round with the roster that we have.

I'm disgusted by how soft this team is. Everybody outside of Gordon [and Noce] looks visibly shaken late in 4th qtrs. No wonder we can't win a close game to save our lives.


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## BullsAttitude (Jun 11, 2002)

bre9 said:


> Gordon was tearing it up, when he lost the ball it really didn't matter we were going to lose anyway.


Gordon didn't heat up until the 4th, but he still had 3 turnovers, just like Kirk and he had silly fouls at the beginning of the game. That's why he wasn't playing towards the end of the 2nd like he should have. 

Gordon played well, but he didn't have a great game. When Kirk or Duhon both have terrible games, the blame is placed all on them, but when Gordon has a bad game, not much is said.

The recent Sacramento game comes to mind, he played terrible but nothing was said. He kept shooting when he didn't have it.

I'm going to say it again, the team all around was worthless tonight. They let Orlando shoot 60% in the 1st quarter. I followed the game on cbssportsline and every Orlando score was pretty much a layup. Terrible way to play after playing inspired for 3 games.

Side note: I hate the United Center crowd, they never seem to really get into the games. You go to other arenas and the fans are into it even if their team is down 10 or more. They become the 6th man sometimes. 

The Stadium was always that way, I bet the Bulls won an extra 10 games in the 93-94 season due to the fans. I just believe the ticket prices are too high for the true fans in Chicago. The ones that would actually get off their butts to cheer! Didn't get the see the game, but that's how I've felt the whole season. Damn, the loudest cheer usually comes when the Bulls get their 100th point in a win.


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## ballerkingn (Nov 17, 2006)

TripleDouble said:


> This team is tough to root for sometimes.




Sense the trading deadline debacle i'm moved on this bulls team is a re-run of umm the last 2 year's 1 and done is what i like to call it.


Anyway cann't wait for Baseball(love the LA dodgers) season to start,and how about NBC "Hero's" that was on during the game was def watching that more then the bulls game yes sr.


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## RagingBulls316 (Feb 15, 2004)

Gordon didn't heat up until the 4th?

What game were you watching?


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## rwj333 (Aug 10, 2002)

theanimal23 said:


> Caught the last few minutes of the game on SopCast. Kirk Hinrich lost it for us. I didn't see any of the game prior to the last few minutes, but to the point where he fouled Nelson before the inbounds and afterward, he lost us the game.
> 
> The guy seriously plays like an idiot with his D. He has the rep for D still, and it's good some nights, EDIT - no avoiding the filter, please


I thought his D was excellent. He forced two key turnovers in the 4th that helped keep us in the game. 

We could have used better offense, though.


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## BullsAttitude (Jun 11, 2002)

RagingBulls316 said:


> Gordon didn't heat up until the 4th?
> 
> What game were you watching?


As I stated in my post, I didn't get to watch the game, I had to follow it on www.cbssportsline.com. I actually sit at the computer following play by play of the game, that's how devoted of a fan I am.

He started off great but did cool off when he got into foul trouble. He was 10 of 19, 8 for 8 from the line, and 4 of 8 from downtown. If he would have been tearing it up like it was stated, we probably wouldn't have lost this game.


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## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

The bad Kirk showed up tonight. Missing jumpers, committing bad fouls and freezing Gordon in the 4th with his overdribbling and blatant ignoring.


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## rwj333 (Aug 10, 2002)

SPMJ said:


> This was an embarassing loss. Even the UC crowd was booing, I think sensing another lost season where we'll be lucky to get past the 1st round with the roster that we have.
> 
> I'm disgusted by how soft this team is. Everybody outside of Gordon [and Noce] looks visibly shaken late in 4th qtrs. No wonder we can't win a close game to save our lives.


How does that phrase go? The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak. 

I don't think they look shaken. They are trying, but they don't have the talent to get it done. 

If it was an issue of effort or lack of focus, then they wouldn't be in the game.


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## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

Gordon was the only positive thing abt the team for the 2nd night in a row. This team is heading backwards I'm telling you. The more we play, the more our flaws get exposed.


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## bre9 (Jan 8, 2006)

BullsAttitude said:


> Gordon didn't heat up until the 4th, but he still had 3 turnovers, just like Kirk and he had silly fouls at the beginning of the game. That's why he wasn't playing towards the end of the 2nd like he should have.
> 
> Gordon played well, but he didn't have a great game. When Kirk or Duhon both have terrible games, the blame is placed all on them, but when Gordon has a bad game, not much is said.
> 
> ...


Ben did a way better job on D on Nelson than Hinrich, Gordon was hot the whole game 32 points 3 reb and 5 assists sounds good to me. Without Gordon in this game they would have been way down.


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## bre9 (Jan 8, 2006)

Also Deng played well too


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

bre9 said:


> Ben did a way better job on D on Nelson than Hinrich, Gordon was hot the whole game 32 points 3 reb and 5 assists sounds good to me. Without Gordon in this game they would have been way down.


FWIW

Gordon went 5-7 with 12 points in Q1
He barely played in Q2 maybe 2 minutes, no shots - none of the starters played, in fact.
Gordon went 3-8 for 9 points in Q3
he went 2-4 for 12 points in Q4

This is one game the bulls didn't blow a big lead, but were beaten for most of the game and still made it close. They simply do not match up well against Orlando.


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## rwj333 (Aug 10, 2002)

BullsAttitude said:


> Gordon didn't heat up until the 4th, but he still had 3 turnovers, just like Kirk and he had silly fouls at the beginning of the game. That's why he wasn't playing towards the end of the 2nd like he should have.
> 
> Gordon played well, but he didn't have a great game. When Kirk or Duhon both have terrible games, the blame is placed all on them, but when Gordon has a bad game, not much is said.
> 
> ...


Yeah. 

I didn't think Gordon's D was too good, but I tend to scrutinize his play. Nelson was faking him out and driving past him pretty effortlessly. His offense was tremendous though.


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## rwj333 (Aug 10, 2002)

I think the pendulum has swung the other way with Gordon. Posters used to be very critical of him. Now he gets more of a pass when he's not playing well. Skiles doesn't have a noticeable agenda against him... Hinrich was benched for a long stretch tonight because another lineup was playing well.


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## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

Wallace put together a solid 3 game stretch recently like the one he did in December and I commented on hoping this would last more than a week. Well, it didn't. He's back to his old self and our frontline is back to being a sad joke. 

Things are looking hopeless again. I just don't see how we'll ever win anything significant with the roster Paxson has put together. No low post presence, an offense strictly genetrated through streaky jump shooting, undersized all the way through, no go-to-guy and mentally SOFT.


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## theanimal23 (Mar 2, 2005)

SPMJ said:


> Wallace put together a solid 3 game stretch recently like the one he did in December and I commented on hoping this would last more than a week. Well, it didn't. He's back to his old self and our frontline is back to being a sad joke.
> 
> Things are looking hopeless again. I just don't see how we'll ever win anything significant with the roster Paxson has put together. No low post presence, an offense strictly genetrated through streaky jump shooting, undersized all the way through, no go-to-guy and mentally SOFT.


Short yet sweet. Repped.


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## BullsAttitude (Jun 11, 2002)

All HAIL KING GORDON, lord knows where we would be without him. 

He single handily won the game for us against the Suns here in Chicago, oh wait, he lost his man on the screen that led to the winning 3 for Phoenix and then he couldn't get a shot off.

I loved his game winner in Golden State, oh wait, he missed that one too. He was wide open on that one.

How bout the game winner against Toronto (where he was actually fouled) that fell short.

I jumped for joy with his game winner against Detroit on Sunday, where he was wide open again. I also loved how Chauncey lost him and hit a shot to put Detroit up 4.

How bout the Sacramento game where he couldn't hit the broad side of a barn, but kept shooting.

I love how he got himself open in the 2nd half of our loss to New Jersey. Remember Kidd not letting him get anything.

It's amazing, when this team loses it's Kirk, Duhon, PJ, or Wallace faults but never Ben Gordon's. 

I love every member of this team, I cheer all of them on but I'm getting sick of everybody on here stating Gordon gets freezed out or he never does anything wrong. Wake up, there has been times when Gordon has shot us out of a game, fouled too early to take himself out of the game, or made bad passes, or just turned the ball over. Yet, it is never his fault.

This is a team game, and yes Gordon played well tonight but I've seen him do better. The lost ball, turnover, or whatever it was in the last 2 minutes didn't help. 

Tonight, the whole team was worthless. That's the way I look at, I don't blame any loss on any one player, it takes a team to lose the game. 

Has any been following how poor our bench has been since Gordon became a starter? How him being in the starting lineup has hurt us now? We've gone from averaging nearly 40 points off the bench down to 20 something now. With Gordon a starter and Nocioni hurt, that hasn't helped us. I never saw the importance of starting, it was who finishes the game that matters.

Once again, our main problem is consistency. Once we become consistent, we will be one of the top 3 teams in the East, until then, we will stay at the middle of the pack.


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## bre9 (Jan 8, 2006)

Skiles is a retarded coach for one why would he bench Kirk with 1.9 secs to go. Also Skiles lineups have become way to inconsistent.


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## BullsAttitude (Jun 11, 2002)

bre9 said:


> Skiles is a retarded coach for one why would he bench Kirk with 1.9 secs to go. Also Skiles lineups have become way to inconsistent.



Cause he fouled out. At least in box score I saw he had 6 fouls.


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## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

We miss Noce's shooting, rebounding, toughness and energy so bad it's depressing to even think abt the time he's going to miss. Until he comes back I expect us to continue sucking like we have thus far w/o him. 3-7 in the 10 games that he's missed.


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## bre9 (Jan 8, 2006)

BullsAttitude said:


> All HAIL KING GORDON, lord knows where we would be without him.
> 
> He single handily won the game for us against the Suns here in Chicago, oh wait, he lost his man on the screen that led to the winning 3 for Phoenix and then he couldn't get a shot off.
> 
> ...


I love the first sentence of this message, Ben gordon is ben gordon and the bench is the bench. Ben Gordon is a starter why u think he was scoring forty of the bench because it was too easy playing against other scrubs. Scoring twenty plus as a starter is great and he is fantasy starting guard. It's up too Skiles and his coaching staff to find out what to do with the bench play.


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## BullsAttitude (Jun 11, 2002)

bre9 said:


> I love the first sentence of this message, Ben gordon is ben gordon and the bench is the bench. Ben Gordon is a starter why u think he was scoring forty of the bench because it was too easy playing against other scrubs. Scoring twenty plus as a starter is great and he is fantasy starting guard. It's up too Skiles and his coaching staff to find out what to do with the bench play.



So Gordon got all his points against the other teams scrubs? Usually the 6th man is the first off the bench and is playing against the other teams starters. 

I'm glad Gordon is starting, but I hate how that has hurt our bench. You take your best scorer from the bench, that weakens it. Then your replacement 6th man goes down with an injury, weakens it even more. That has been a factor in our losses.

Hey, I love watching Gordon shoot, his shot is a thing of beauty, but he has not single handily won us games. This team still has no true superstar, in time I think Deng and Gordon will be those, but right now we don't. My point is, Gordon has cost as many games as he has helped us win. Just like every other player on this team.


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## BeZerker2008 (Jun 29, 2006)

Another thing that tormented me tonight was another thing the Bulls do with other teams. Which would be letting scrubs get the better of them, watching Darko who averages 8 points a game (got them all in the first quarter or half) & not to mention Bo Frickin' Outlaw getting easy layups! Those and the back to back walks from PJ.

I think this team gets down on themselves too easy, starting the first two games after the break the Bulls seemed energized & in sync (at times). They lose to Detroit, then play ugly basketball against Orlando. Who knows how they'll play against Golden state but I think they're reverting back to their old ways again. One other thing, it seems as though if a player doesn't show intensity (TT, Nocioni or Wallace) the bulls don't seem to show any.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

Well, there's not a lot from this performance to go into the positives thread. Yuck.


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## RagingBulls316 (Feb 15, 2004)

BullsAttitude, I get the feeling you dislike Ben Gordon.

You keep saying he never gets any blame when he plays bad. Do you remember the past 3 years, everytime he has gotten off to a slow start and all the "Trade Ben Gordon" topics that appeared after his bad games. Or do you conviently forget that?


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## bre9 (Jan 8, 2006)

The bulls got four all-star caliber players in Gordon, Deng, Hinrich, and Nocioni but skiles can not take this team to the next level he has reached his coaching peek.


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## chibul (Oct 14, 2006)

BullsAttitude said:


> I just get pissed that teams like Orlando play great against us but suck against the Knicks, Raptors, etc.


Sounds like a certain favorite team of ours...


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## Orange Julius Irving (Jun 28, 2004)

BullsAttitude said:


> So Gordon got all his points against the other teams scrubs? Usually the 6th man is the first off the bench and is playing against the other teams starters.
> 
> I'm glad Gordon is starting, but I hate how that has hurt our bench. You take your best scorer from the bench, that weakens it. Then your replacement 6th man goes down with an injury, weakens it even more. That has been a factor in our losses.
> 
> Hey, I love watching Gordon shoot, his shot is a thing of beauty, but he has not single handily won us games. This team still has no true superstar, in time I think Deng and Gordon will be those, but right now we don't. My point is, Gordon has cost as many games as he has helped us win. Just like every other player on this team.


It does seem like the Team played better down the stretch with Gordon coming off the bench.


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## bre9 (Jan 8, 2006)

Orange Julius Irving said:


> It does seem like the Team played better down the stretch with Gordon coming off the bench.


Not really the bulls went on a losing streak that's why they put Gordon back in the starting lineup.


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## BullsAttitude (Jun 11, 2002)

RagingBulls316 said:


> BullsAttitude, I get the feeling you dislike Ben Gordon.
> 
> You keep saying he never gets any blame when he plays bad. Do you remember the past 3 years, everytime he has gotten off to a slow start and all the "Trade Ben Gordon" topics that appeared after his bad games. Or do you conviently forget that?



No, I love Ben Gordon and I do remember those threads and I was never a part of them. I don't dislike any Bulls player, never have, never will. I just get tired of seeing "it was Kirk's fault", "or way to go and mess it up Duhon" or something negative about everyone else besides Ben Gordon. 

Gordon gets a break from a lot of posters on here because of his scoring ability, because of his late game heroics. He is the best shooter on this team, he comes through at the end of games, but yet he does make stupid mistakes that hurt us, just like everyone else on this team.

Go back to the Cleveland game here in Chicago. Bulls were trying to protect a lead against Cleveland, Gordon on the right wing going against Larry Hughes. Gordon tries to get fancy and Hughes steals the ball from him cleanly. Now, we go on to the win the game and nothing is said about the turnover. That was a stupid mistake by Gordon that could have helped Cleveland win the game, thank god it didn't happen though.

How bout all the last second shots that Skiles drew up before the past 4. The Nocioni miss that people blasted cause Gordon didn't get the ball. The last second 3 that Hinrich took against New Jersey when he didn't hand it off to Gordon, yet Carter was all over Gordon. All those shots were criticised cause Gordon wasn't taken them.

Gordon has missed the his last 4 last second shots yet nothing is stated of, let's go to Deng on a cut to the basket, or let's go somewhere else. Some people on this board put Gordon on a pedastal that he doesn't belong. He makes mistakes like every other player on this team. 

I was one of the few who doesn't want to see any of our young core traded away for someone who has never won a playoff game. This team is being built for the future, it is not a win now team. I never believed that when we got Wallace we would automatically become Championship contenders. We are contenders in the East, not in the NBA. Hell, I'll state this right now, Detroit should win the East and be ready to take a beating from the Dallas Mavericks.

I know people are going to say that Detroit was expecting the same thing from the Lakers in '04. This Dallas team is not that Lakers team, this Dallas team is hungry, on a mission and they want that NBA title. More so than the Pistons, they already have one.

Ok, side track there, back to the Bulls. We should get a decent pick out of the draft or that might be a piece to a deal that will be made. I think Paxson decided to ride out this season and possibly make a deal in the offseason. Yes, the East is there to be taken and then what, be slaughtered by the Western Conference Champion. I know we have beaten Dallas, Phoenix, and San Antonio but the best team wins in a 7 game series and those teams are all better than us.

Dallas has learned from their mistakes through the years and they are right there. That is something I feel this team is still going through. Do I hate Ben Gordon, no I don't. I hate how sometimes he gets careless with the ball or commits a stupid foul. Do I hate Kirk Hinrich, no I don't. I do get tired of him trying to shoot himself back into a game, he needs to drive and try to get the contact. Do I hate Duhon, no I don't. I get tired of his ill-advised 3s when a 2 will do just as good. Do I hate Deng, no I don't. I wish we would start slashing more to the basket again. 

I don't dislike any Bull, I do get frustrated with them like everyone else does. I cheer them on and when they lose, it's THEIR fault, not one players.


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## ballerkingn (Nov 17, 2006)

Heres something that's overlooked by many.Remember we don't have any post player and no refief on either side of the ball.I really think that many of our guys are tired and where tired after yesterday lost,and i think why we lose so much focus most of the time is because we expand so much enegry on D and O and never have any relief.Ben isn't superman,and isn't young either at 32,i'm in my 20's and i feel it after 20 mins fo basketball the next day.


I could only imagine what these guys must feel like after 40 or so min's of b-ball on a back to back with no rest at all on either side of the ball every game,and very little time off the last few games against tough grind it out team's with touch super star's who put pressure on you a lot.I could blame the whoever made the nba scdule the way it was the last 4 or 5 game's because when u look at it,it really isn't fare to the player's,and thier body's.


All season it seemed that way,but to me by now the coach with the depth he has should find a way to get through it.We have 1 key injury and ton's on talent in a way,why not type Victor or T-bo more he tired sweets some,but not in the 2nd half,and the opposite for Ty and they both where effective when they played.So Skiles got to do something.


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## JeremyB0001 (Nov 17, 2003)

Stat of the night: Brown and Allen combined to shoot 3 of 16 with four boards and just two free throw attempts in 30 minutes. Everyone realizes the front court needs to be upgraded but the reason I find the idea that we need a star like Gasol to succeed to be somewhat misguided is that no one seems to appreciate exactly how terrible we've been at the four. 

Also, I have to question exactly how valuable Ben Wallace has ever been if he can't match up against a good frontcourt without a good 7 footer playing alongside him. Personally, I never doubted that a guy with multiple DPOYs could handle any center in the league on defense and the boards. In retrospect though, expecting this team to go places with a 37 year old, a 6'7 player, a raw rookie, and a one dimensional jump shooter (who doesn't have that great of a jump shot) manning the 4 seems like a glaring oversight at times. 

We win these last two games if Noc is healthy but injuries are a big part of pro sports. I really thought we'd get more production from Victor, Tyrus, and even Sweets; their lack of minutes sure aren't helping right now.


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## RoRo (Aug 21, 2002)

JeremyB0001 said:


> Stat of the night: Brown and Allen combined to shoot 3 of 16 with four boards and just two free throw attempts in 30 minutes. Everyone realizes the front court needs to be upgraded but the reason I find the idea that we need a star like Gasol to succeed to be somewhat misguided is that no one seems to appreciate exactly how terrible we've been at the four.
> 
> Also, I have to question exactly how valuable Ben Wallace has ever been if he can't match up against a good frontcourt without a good 7 footer playing alongside him. Personally, I never doubted that a guy with multiple DPOYs could handle any center in the league on defense and the boards. In retrospect though, expecting this team to go places with a 37 year old, a 6'7 player, a raw rookie, and a one dimensional jump shooter (who doesn't have that great of a jump shot) manning the 4 seems like a glaring oversight at times.
> 
> We win these last two games if Noc is healthy but injuries are a big part of pro sports. I really thought we'd get more production from Victor, Tyrus, and even Sweets; their lack of minutes sure aren't helping right now.


sweetney and allen have been terrible this year. lack of speed is killing them on defense and transition and there's no point in getting them on track imo. any offense they generate is given right back. let victor and tyrus play more, i was surprised tyrus didn't see any pt in the first half of a back to back game. 

more importantly we need noc back, his shooting range and rebounding was sorely missed.


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## Phoenix32 (Nov 1, 2006)

it was really big game for Magic and it was really important match, cause now they are fighting for spot in playoffs... I am happy that they ended their loosing streak... And again Hill came back and Redick sits down... Does Bob Hill thinks normally what he do??? D12 playing good, but he made too much TO...


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