# D.George, H.Turk, A.Wright to the Raptors in 4 Team S&T Deal



## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

After sifting through everything I'm pretty sure this is how the trade has broke down for all teams involved. 

*Toronto- Turkoglu, Wright, George (and retain MLE, LLE)*
Dallas- Marion, Humphries, Buckner
Memphis- Stackhouse, Douby, cash
Orlando- $8-$10 mil Traded Player Exception, cash


ESPN Link



> The Toronto Raptors and Dallas Mavericks agreed in principle Wednesday night to a complicated four-team sign-and-trade deal including the Memphis Grizzlies and Orlando Magic that will land Shawn Marion in Dallas and Hedo Turkoglu in Toronto, sources close to the process told ESPN.com.


National Post



> The Toronto Raptors have agreed to a remarkable three-team trade, turning free-agent-to-be Shawn Marion and little-used forward Kris Humphries into two backup wing players. More importantly, Toronto has managed to regain their eligibility to use the mid-level and bi-annual exceptions to the salary cap, which the team appeared to have sacrificed by committing to sign forward Hedo Turkoglu.
> 
> The deal, according to sources, would send Marion to Dallas with a new contract along with Humphries. Toronto would receive Mavericks swingmen Devean George and Antoine Wright. Memphis, the third team in the deal, would receive Jerry Stackhouse — who will be waived — at least US$2-million from Dallas to pay the guaranteed money on Stackhouse's contract, and Raptors guard Quincy Douby. Memphis would also send guard Greg Buckner to the Mavericks


This is pretty great news. BC has essentially flipped Hump for a credible player in Antoine Wright and a serviceable backup in Devean George. With retaining the MLE and LLE we can pick up more depth, the names being discussed are Delfino, Nate Robinson, Rasho, Kleiza and a couple of others. 

My idea:

Jose/ Nate/ Roko
Delfino/ Wright/ Derozan/
Hedo/ George / Wright
Bosh/ Evans/ Hedo
Bargs/ Rasho / O'Bryant or Jawai

That looks like a playoff calibre team to me

:champagne:


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

Oh and Anthony Parker signed with the Cavs, sad to see him go as he was the perfect professional. I hope he does well at the Cavs aslong as he's misfiring those corner three's when he comes back to Raptor Town!


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## c_dog (Sep 15, 2002)

why are the raptors always the team doing the charity work? you can see why orlando would do it(cash+exception), you can see why dallas would do it(marion!), and you can even see why memphis would do it(douby is a decent backup pg with legit offense game in the nba, cash is always an incentive)... but toronto? we could have signed hedo anyway. the mle and lle would only be good if we can sign good FA's. we just took on some dead weight with wright and george.. i'd rather see a real sign and trade, not this charity nonsense for the mavericks. we can probably fetch much better for marion than this.

you really think hedo can turn the raptor's fortune around eh? delfino could help, but i wouldn't put him ahead of derozan on the depth chart.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

HAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAA... You want a ROOKIE starting SG for us? 

Toronto just got solid depth for nothing. Humps was a liability on offense and didn't bring all that much besides hustle, and we have Evans now. 

Why can't we get good free agents with the MLE and LLE? All the players I listed are good players. I do agree Delfino isn't my first option at starting SG so perhaps BC can get something done in that regard. But because we retained the bird rights to him he won't cost us either our MLE or LLE I don't think.

If we just 'signed' Hedo like you wanted we would have lost both MLE and LLE. 

And please tell me what else the Raptors could have got in return for Marion? There was no way we could sign him but somehow BC managed to flip it and get us a S&T that landed us some much needed depth. 

I'm starting to think you know very little about how an NBA Franchise actually operates.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

Other names to throw in are Matt Barnes, Gerald Green, Jamario Moon, Dooling. 

It's rumoured Rasho wants the LLE to come back, and I expect it to happen. I also expect us to sign Delfion outright. 

The real intrigue comes to the MLE, maybe Kleiza for $4mill and then Matt Barnes for $1.9mill, does that work?

I don't get what's not to be happy about BC turned Marion a player who was going to walk, and Hump who was redunant with Evans into A.Wright and D.George AND the MLE/LLE back.

We've got one of the best starting line-ups in the east and plenty of room to work on aquiring a solid bench. Today is a great day for this franchise and all credit to BC, he's really shut my moaning up with these masterful strokes.


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## billfindlay10 (Jan 24, 2003)

Not to mention Hump had 2 years left on his deal, where as Wright only has one. This can free up a little extra room for next season as well. 

I like Hump and wish him well, even if he was a bit of a chucker. Wright is an interesting pickup, he did not have great stats in Dallas, but he started 53 of his 65 games last season on a team that won 50 games. With Dirk, Terry, and Howard he was not asked to score, I wonder how his defense is?


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

His defense is meant to be really good according to other forums I've read but I'm looking up other sources now.

George also has just one year left on his contract. This is a massive win-win situation for us.


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## c_dog (Sep 15, 2002)

Porn_Player said:


> HAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAA... You want a ROOKIE starting SG for us?
> 
> Toronto just got solid depth for nothing. Humps was a liability on offense and didn't bring all that much besides hustle, and we have Evans now.
> 
> ...


i was proposing just signing hedo, used the remaining 2 mil on delfino or von wafer. after that we can still trade marion for mle, lle, or preferably DRAFT PICKS. this is a weak free agent class so mle and lle aren't that sexy to me, especially when we're picking up dead weights. chances re the free agents we pick up won't be much of an upgrade over douby(a legit nba scorer i tell you) and hump(who this board hates but is actually a decent young pf). we're in no hurry to sign and trade marion with the mavericks, that was my point. we're doing the mavericks a favor. i want to see draft picks.

and derozan needs to start. this team needs to do everything i can to develop this kid for the future. he's the guy that can possibly turn this franchise around at this point. easily the most talented player on the team.


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## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

Devean George is not a serviceable backup, he is flat-out terrible. Wright is a solid defender, not outstanding in that regard ... just don't expect any contribution from him on offense.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

c_dog said:


> i was proposing just signing hedo, used the remaining 2 mil on delfino or von wafer. after that we can still trade marion for mle, lle, or preferably DRAFT PICKS. this is a weak free agent class so mle and lle aren't that sexy to me, especially when we're picking up dead weights. chances re the free agents we pick up won't be much of an upgrade over douby(a legit nba scorer i tell you) and hump(who this board hates but is actually a decent young pf). we're in no hurry to sign and trade marion with the mavericks, that was my point. we're doing the mavericks a favor. i want to see draft picks.
> 
> and derozan needs to start. this team needs to do everything i can to develop this kid for the future. he's the guy that can possibly turn this franchise around at this point. * easily the most talented player on the team*.


WHAT?!?! You seem to be hating on Bargnani despite his obvious huge potential, but you love DD for the same reason? Bargnani has shown over the second half of last season he is a legit 20point a night scorer. DD hasn't even played a summer league game and you're making ridiculous claims. 

I don't think we could have traded Marion for the MLE, LLE and Draft Picks. If we had signed Hedo outright and then Von Wafer for 2mill we would have been at the cap limit. Forgive me if I'm wrong but you need some cap space to be allowed MLE? 

Why do you want to blow this team up and have such a young core? Bosh is a stud, maybe not a game finisher but a stud regardless. Bargnani is developing into a legit big scoring threat. Hedo is already a scoring threat and the best SF we have had here since a certain player out of North Carolina, he also closes out games. 

We have a great core and one of the best starting line-ups in the East. Our bench is also turning into something that can hold it's own. 

DD does need to be developed but being thrust into starting SG may just lead to him getting shredded night in and night out. He needs time to develop but will certainly play a big part in the 2nd rotation.

Delfino woudn't have came for 2 mill.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

croco said:


> Devean George is not a serviceable backup, he is flat-out terrible. Wright is a solid defender, not outstanding in that regard ... just don't expect any contribution from him on offense.


He doesn't need to contribute on offense we have Bosh, Bargnani, Hedo who will get all the touches. He's a solid player and was a starter on your 50win season last year.

George is terrible but meh we can still flip him as an expiring contract to somebody, hopefully bring in Dooling.


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## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

Porn_Player said:


> He doesn't need to contribute on offense we have Bosh, Bargnani, Hedo who will get all the touches. He's a solid player and was a starter on your 50win season last year.
> 
> George is terrible but meh we can still flip him as an expiring contract to somebody, hopefully bring in Dooling.


He is Bruce Bowen without the three point shot from the corner, he will have to at least knock down some shots which he routinely does not. Wright was one of the reasons why the Mavs struggled at times, during the season and in the playoffs and there are dozens of better shooting guards in the league.


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## c_dog (Sep 15, 2002)

Porn_Player said:


> WHAT?!?! You seem to be hating on Bargnani despite his obvious huge potential, but you love DD for the same reason? Bargnani has shown over the second half of last season he is a legit 20point a night scorer. DD hasn't even played a summer league game and you're making ridiculous claims.
> 
> I don't think we could have traded Marion for the MLE, LLE and Draft Picks. If we had signed Hedo outright and then Von Wafer for 2mill we would have been at the cap limit. Forgive me if I'm wrong but you need some cap space to be allowed MLE?
> 
> ...


huge potential? bargnani? maybe bust potential. dude's a chucker who got green light. don't be a fool. right now i can't see him become a much better offensive player than okur, an equally horrid defender but much worse rebounder.

bosh a stud? i'm surprised not more fans have been calling for his head. the guy is garbage in the clutch. no go to moves at all. all he ever does is shoot jumpshots and try to get calls while driving for ugly layups. people say dwight doesn't have an offensive game but dwight dunks the ball with authority and has a semi effective mini hook. bosh has nothing. bosh has a reputation that exceeds his production because toronto has feature him all these years and rep him along with the great players like lebron, wade, carmelo. raptors have shown every intention to sign him to a max contract and he's not shown any interest in staying. i personally think him leaving would be a blessing in disguise for the franchise since i can't take all these pseudofranchise players on the raptors anymore. some called vince carter soft but bosh has been a bigger disappointment, at least to me.

delfino's not going to cost much. i don't see teams lining up for delfino.


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

Wow...Colangelo = Genius didn't see this one coming at all so in the offseason BC has manged to 

-Upgrade our wings from both the SG and SF position
-Get tougher
-Provide a deeper bench
-Keep our MLE and LLE
-Lock Bargs to a contract thats under his value

Hes working over time I'm loving this


Edit: C-dog you can't be serious here


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## Chan Ho Nam (Jan 9, 2007)

crossing fingers for Barnes, need some young toughness


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## billfindlay10 (Jan 24, 2003)

c_dog said:


> *huge potential? bargnani? maybe bust potential. dude's a chucker who got green light. don't be a fool. right now i can't see him become a much better offensive player than okur, an equally horrid defender but much worse rebounder.*
> 
> bosh a stud? i'm surprised not more fans have been calling for his head. the guy is garbage in the clutch. no go to moves at all. all he ever does is shoot jumpshots and try to get calls while driving for ugly layups. people say dwight doesn't have an offensive game but dwight dunks the ball with authority and has a semi effective mini hook. bosh has nothing. bosh has a reputation that exceeds his production because toronto has feature him all these years and rep him along with the great players like lebron, wade, carmelo. raptors have shown every intention to sign him to a max contract and he's not shown any interest in staying. i personally think him leaving would be a blessing in disguise for the franchise since i can't take all these pseudofranchise players on the raptors anymore. some called vince carter soft but bosh has been a bigger disappointment, at least to me.
> 
> delfino's not going to cost much. i don't see teams lining up for delfino.


Andrea is still bust material in you eyes? Wow, but you are all over Derozan, a guard without a jumpshot and one year of college on an average team. I think Derozan will turn into a solid pro, and I know Andrea is already a solid pro. His positional post defense is good, his on man shot blocking is good, his defensive rotation is poor, but will improve. Bargnani added some post play into his game last season and will add a little more this year.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

c_dog said:


> huge potential? bargnani? maybe bust potential. dude's a chucker who got green light. don't be a fool. right now i can't see him become a much better offensive player than okur, an equally horrid defender but much worse rebounder.
> 
> bosh a stud? i'm surprised not more fans have been calling for his head. the guy is garbage in the clutch. no go to moves at all. all he ever does is shoot jumpshots and try to get calls while driving for ugly layups. people say dwight doesn't have an offensive game but dwight dunks the ball with authority and has a semi effective mini hook. bosh has nothing. bosh has a reputation that exceeds his production because toronto has feature him all these years and rep him along with the great players like lebron, wade, carmelo. raptors have shown every intention to sign him to a max contract and he's not shown any interest in staying. i personally think him leaving would be a blessing in disguise for the franchise since i can't take all these pseudofranchise players on the raptors anymore. some called vince carter soft but bosh has been a bigger disappointment, at least to me.
> 
> delfino's not going to cost much. i don't see teams lining up for delfino.



Again you mention Bosh being garbage in the clutch. BC just signed Hedo. 

Bosh has no go to moves? Does he start the game with 22+ points then? Do those rebounds fall into his lap every single time? 

The only thing I somewhat agree with you on is that Bosh leaving isn't such a bad idea. We'd have masses of cap to sign a leader to the max, the only problem with that is we have to make sure we're able to get somebody as equally valuable back. 

Teams in Europe are lining up for Delfino.


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## c_dog (Sep 15, 2002)

billfindlay10 said:


> Andrea is still bust material in you eyes? Wow, but you are all over Derozan, a guard without a jumpshot and one year of college on an average team. I think Derozan will turn into a solid pro, and I know Andrea is already a solid pro. His positional post defense is good, his on man shot blocking is good, his defensive rotation is poor, but will improve. Bargnani added some post play into his game last season and will add a little more this year.


derozan not having a jumpshot is a myth. he has a very nice mid range game and shot 60% from the field the second half of his college season. besides, i rather have an athlete who attacks the basket for a change. this team has 5 jumpshooters in their lineup for the last couple of years, it's time we strike a little fear in our opponents for a change. it'll be nice to see people getting out of derozan's way to prevent being posterized/smell his groin.

andrea was a number one pick. right now all i see is a chucker who can't do anything but chuck up shots, and isn't even automatic. basically any half decent shooter can do what he does. we might as well rade for radmanovich to play center? he's about 2 inches shorter but does the same thing. it's not even about what kind of numbers he has but what he is as a player(hence why i think bosh is garbage despite pretty stats), which is my assessment of him by watching him play. you guys seriously see a star player in him? even a borderline all-star? i don't.

@porn player: bosh not being clutch is okay if he weren't our "franchise player". so we sign him to the max for what? so he can rely on role players on doing the work for him? and just how far do you see this team go by relying on hedo as the main closer in games?

i'm just not understanding the complacency with the raptors fan base. do you guys seriously want to remain mediocre? bc's moves simply havent been good enough. every move he's done since he's come abroad has fallen short of my expectations. every single one.


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## billfindlay10 (Jan 24, 2003)

c_dog said:


> derozan not having a jumpshot is a myth. he has a very nice mid range game and shot 60% from the field the second half of his college season. besides, i rather have an athlete who attacks the basket for a change. this team has 5 jumpshooters in their lineup for the last couple of years, it's time we strike a little fear in our opponents for a change. it'll be nice to see people getting out of derozan's way to prevent being posterized/smell his groin.
> 
> *andrea was a number one pick. right now all i see is a chucker who can't do anything but chuck up shots, and isn't even automatic. basically any half decent shooter can do what he does. we might as well rade for radmanovich to play center? he's about 2 inches shorter but does the same thing.* it's not even about what kind of numbers he has but what he is as a player(hence why i think bosh is garbage despite pretty stats), which is my assessment of him by watching him play. you guys seriously see a star player in him? even a borderline all-star? i don't.
> 
> ...


You don't pay enough attention to the entire game if you feel that way. Bargnani is our best positional post defender, he may not be that exciting of a post defender with flashy blocks, but he does a very good job. Radmanovich could not even come close to playing the post defense that Andrea does. Is Bargs a finished product yet, no, but is he a top 10 center in the league for 2009/10, yes!

I agree that Bosh does not deserve a full max contract, I feel he is best suited as being a second option, but after a hand full of #1 guys in the NBA he is as good as anyone....as soft as his game looks.


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## c_dog (Sep 15, 2002)

billfindlay10 said:


> You don't pay enough attention to the entire game if you feel that way. Bargnani is our best positional post defender, he may not be that exciting of a post defender with flashy blocks, but he does a very good job. Radmanovich could not even come close to playing the post defense that Andrea does. Is Bargs a finished product yet, no, but is he a top 10 center in the league for 2009/10, yes!
> 
> I agree that Bosh does not deserve a full max contract, I feel he is best suited as being a second option, but after a hand full of #1 guys in the NBA he is as good as anyone....as soft as his game looks.


top 10 center? you just made my point.

i don't see how raps fans can be so overly optimistic about this team. perspective is looking at all the other teams in the league and then look at this team, and realize that this team is not even close to being competitive. Hedo might make them a borderline playoff team, that's it. anything else is foolish thinking.


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## -James- (Apr 27, 2004)

This is a good trade, I don't see how you can say otherwise... I mean the contracts of George and Wright are pretty much a wash since they're expiring anyways; we actually get some kind of value back for Marion in Wright who will probably start opening night at the 2-guard. 
We get Humphries' contract off the books for next season and all this cost us what, a tweener guard who probably wasn't going to play anyways? I mean don't get me wrong, I like Douby as a player at the end of our bench and he might end up being a decent player, but if we can trade him for someone who will probably be a contributor I don't see the problem.
And has been mentioned, by trading Marion, this let's us use our MLE which can land us a wing scorer (not really excited about Kleiza, though).


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## -James- (Apr 27, 2004)

Sorry to double post, but Marion would not yield a first-round draft pick as has been suggested.


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## billfindlay10 (Jan 24, 2003)

c_dog said:


> top 10 center? you just made my point.
> 
> i don't see how raps fans can be so overly optimistic about this team. perspective is looking at all the other teams in the league and then look at this team, and realize that this team is not even close to being competitive. Hedo might make them a borderline playoff team, that's it. anything else is foolish thinking.


What is your point? Every player we have on the team needs to be the #1 player at their position? 

I say top 10 conservatively, For 2009/2010 who are better? 

Shaq and Howard in the east.....but who else for sure. Dalembert, Perkins, Eddy Curry, Bogut, Jermaine O'Neal, Okafor, Lopez, Horford, Haywood, Noah, Hibbert?????? Yes we could make arguments for some, but clear cut better, none.

Out west, Al Jefferson coming back from injury after that no Yao, he is out, Dampier, Bynum, Biedrins, Chandler, Oden, Okur, Marc Gasol????? Andrea is a top starting center in the NBA, does he need to improve, yes, will he yes, will Toronto be better for him, yes.


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## c_dog (Sep 15, 2002)

-James- said:


> This is a good trade, I don't see how you can say otherwise... I mean the contracts of George and Wright are pretty much a wash since they're expiring anyways; we actually get some kind of value back for Marion in Wright who will probably start opening night at the 2-guard.
> We get Humphries' contract off the books for next season and all this cost us what, a tweener guard who probably wasn't going to play anyways? I mean don't get me wrong, I like Douby as a player at the end of our bench and he might end up being a decent player, but if we can trade him for someone who will probably be a contributor I don't see the problem.
> And has been mentioned, by trading Marion, this let's us use our MLE which can land us a wing scorer (not really excited about Kleiza, though).


i still think it's underwhelming. getting rid for hump and douby for expirings doesn't necessarily make a good trade and the raps are unlike to sign much better free agents than those two with the mle and ile. should have signed and traded marion for a better deal. we held all the chips, there was no rush. hedo was going to sign anyway, we have marion's rights, we had power.

and why can't we get picks for marion? am i missing something here? i think marion had decent trade value and would have fetched some low 1st rounders.


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## Junkyard Dog13 (Aug 9, 2003)

Matt Barnes would be a very good addition and then u get rid of George Dooling would nice but with the wings adressed try to move George and bring Rasho back.

Depth Chart baed on we add Rasho and Barnes

PG Calderon Ukic 
SG Derozan Wright Ukic
SF Hedu Barnes George
PF Bosh Evans Bargnani
C Bargnani Rasho O Bryant

capable 50 win team.


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## Zuca (Dec 4, 2003)

It's official:

http://www.nba.com/raptors/news/turkoglu_acquired_070909.html

But Quincy Douby is staying with the Raptors, while Nathan Jawai is going to Dallas and we're sending a 2016 second rounder to Grizzlies. Seems that Patrick O'Bryant will get another chance, now that Jawai is gone.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

Apparently Barnes is very close to signing with the Magic, and will as soon as they can lock up Brandon Bass (who's looking for a bit more money but can't seem to find it).

The best part of this trade for the Raptors is that they get to use the MLE. They still need quite a few things, really. I'd try to get Rasho Nesterovic with the veteran's exception, and then split the MLE between Delfino and Royal Ivey. He's always been a good defender but has been steadily improving and has managed to develop a decent outside shot.

PG: Jose Calderon...Royal Ivey...Roko Ukic...Marcus Banks
SG: DeMar DeRozan...Carlos Delfino...Quincy Douby
SF: Hedo Turkoglu...Antoine Wright...Devean George
PF: Chris Bosh...Reggie Evans
C: Andrea Bargnani...Rasho Nesterovic...Patrick O'Bryant


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## narrator (Feb 11, 2006)

At least Jawai is gone. What a waste of time, money, and space.

I actually don't mind this deal, so long as the Raptors get rid of George and turn part of the MLE into Carlos Delfino. I like Wright's defense; he knows he's on thin ice and he'll give the max effort for his 12-17 mins per game. I'm still not sold on what Turkoglu brings to the Raptors, though, esp. at $12 million per year.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

narrator said:


> At least Jawai is gone. What a waste of time, money, and space.
> 
> I actually don't mind this deal, so long as the Raptors get rid of George and turn part of the MLE into Carlos Delfino. I like Wright's defense; he knows he's on thin ice and he'll give the max effort for his 12-17 mins per game. I'm still not sold on what Turkoglu brings to the Raptors, though, esp. at $12 million per year.


That's the brilliant thing, we can sign Delfino without even using the MLE as he was our free agent so we own his bird rights. 

I'm actually a little sad to see Jawai go, I had a soft spot for the Australian fatty.

We keep Douby though, C-Dog should be a little happier 'cos we all know Douby can score!


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## narrator (Feb 11, 2006)

Porn_Player said:


> We keep Douby though, C-Dog should be a little happier 'cos we all know Douby can score!


The Raptors have never had a problem scoring. They have, however, had a problem preventing other teams from scoring.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

narrator said:


> The Raptors have never had a problem scoring. They have, however, had a problem preventing other teams from scoring.


I was mocking C-Dog and his man love for Douby, guess you must have missed it.


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## Junkyard Dog13 (Aug 9, 2003)

Delfino so then it looks like if Barnes is off the market, Marquis Daniels is out there without the mle could we sign Delfino for 2.5 mill a year.


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## -James- (Apr 27, 2004)

c_dog said:


> i still think it's underwhelming. getting rid for hump and douby for expirings doesn't necessarily make a good trade and the raps are unlike to sign much better free agents than those two with the mle and ile. should have signed and traded marion for a better deal. we held all the chips, there was no rush. hedo was going to sign anyway, we have marion's rights, we had power.
> 
> and why can't we get picks for marion? am i missing something here? i think marion had decent trade value and would have fetched some low 1st rounders.


To have signed Hedo we would have had to _waive Marion's rights_ which would have put us under the point where we get an MLE (at least this is to my understanding). This trade not only nets us something in return for Marion, but by getting Orlando to take part in this trade our MLE is saved and we get another 6 mil or so to play with (though I doubt BC uses it all). If we can use some of that money to sign a Kleiza or Wafer or Rasho (or someone on that level), we immediately have players who are more ready to contribute than Humphries or Douby, or I guess I should say now, Jawai. 

So again, Marion's cap hold was keeping us from signing Hedo on the 8th; if Marion was to hit the open market he likely would not have gotten more than the MLE and as a favour to Marion, it looks like BC wanted to help him out in that regard.

Finally, about trading Marion for a 1st, what team under the cap would be willing to absorb the contract that Marion commands AND give up a 1st? Teams over the cap would have had to send contracts back which would prevent the Turkoglu signing. And we hold zero leverage in trying to get a pick out of anyone cause they know we have to renounce Marion to sign Turkoglu anyways. That's just how I see it...


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## -James- (Apr 27, 2004)

Junkyard Dog13 said:


> Delfino so then it looks like if Barnes is off the market, Marquis Daniels is out there without the mle could we sign Delfino for 2.5 mill a year.


I believe we can sign him for 175% of his previous salary so 2.5 mil should be well within that range... but knowing how stingy MLSE has been I doubt we bring back Delfino AND use our entire MLE.


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## Dee-Zy (Jan 12, 2006)

Didn't Wright play a lot for Dallas as their defensive specialist?

I'm not sure he is dead weight.

BC has been pretty active this last season. There might be hope in TO afteral.

The defense on the wing will be upgraded if Fino comes back. Fino/Wright is nice defense on the wing.


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## Junkyard Dog13 (Aug 9, 2003)

I tought back in 05 that at we would take Wright and at 16 Gragner.
Wright is a good defensvfe player and can be explosive on the wings.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

Rumor Central on ESPN says that Nesterovic wants to come back to the Raps. If they could give Rasho $1.8m of the mid-level, Jarret Jack $4m per year, and sign Delfino, the team would be looking really solid.

Calderon/Jack
DeRozan/Delfino
Hedo/Wright
Bosh/Evans
Bargnani/Rasho


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## Junkyard Dog13 (Aug 9, 2003)

Damian Necronamous said:


> Rumor Central on ESPN says that Nesterovic wants to come back to the Raps. If they could give Rasho $1.8m of the mid-level, Jarret Jack $4m per year, and sign Delfino, the team would be looking really solid.
> 
> Calderon/Jack
> DeRozan/Delfino
> ...


where does ukic go?


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## billfindlay10 (Jan 24, 2003)

Junkyard Dog13 said:


> where does ukic go?


I think he was just using the top2 at each position. No Douby, Ukic, O'Bryant...ect.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

But we're not going to use a 14 man rotation so some players would be sat down a whole bunch. I like what I've seem from Ukic. I'm not sure why most people aren't thinking he's a reasonable backup.

A Mar Mar/Delfino SG rotation looks ugly to me.


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## billfindlay10 (Jan 24, 2003)

Porn_Player said:


> But we're not going to use a 14 man rotation so some players would be sat down a whole bunch. I like what I've seem from Ukic. I'm not sure why most people aren't thinking he's a reasonable backup.
> 
> A Mar Mar/Delfino SG rotation looks ugly to me.


The big thing with Ukic was his lack of a consistent jump shot last year and his habit of dribbling out the end of the shot clock. I know he can improve his shooting and his floater is great, if he can be a better facilitator in the half court he will be fine. A better defender to put in for a few minutes a game would be nice, although Ukic's length does cause some trouble. 

Delfino/Derozan is not that bad a shooting guard lineup. Delfino is streaky but good and is a decent defender and rebounder at the 2 spot, he will step in the Parkers spot easily. Hedo will be the big scoring threat from the wing so not much will be asked from the 2 spot. AS long as Derozan keeps his turnovers down and plays with energy we will be fine.


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## WillFlight! (Jul 11, 2009)

It will be interesting to see how BC fills out the last 3 spots on the roster.


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

WillFlight! said:


> It will be interesting to see how BC fills out the last 3 spots on the roster.


 Delfino and Rasho are already locks to me a 3rd PG coming from summer league or FA


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

billfindlay10 said:


> I think he was just using the top2 at each position. No Douby, Ukic, O'Bryant...ect.


Yep. Let's be honest, Ukic, O'Bryant, Douby and Banks are really not worth mentioning at the moment.

BTW, with Jack close to signing an offer sheet, it really does look like the Raps may fill out their roster with him, Delfino and Nesterovic.


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## c_dog (Sep 15, 2002)

Porn_Player said:


> I was mocking C-Dog and his man love for Douby, guess you must have missed it.


it's not so much that i love douby but that this team lacks quality players. douby is not perfect but at least he has nba-level scoring ability. which is more than what you can say about half the players on this team who do absolutely nothing at the nba level.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

c_dog said:


> it's not so much that i love douby but that this team lacks quality players. douby is not perfect but at least he has nba-level scoring ability. which is more than what you can say about half the players on this team who do absolutely nothing at the nba level.


The rotation isn't going to be 15 man deep. The second unit will struggle for offense but how often is it a straight swap 5 for 5? The second unit will rarely all be on the floor at the same time and if we sign Jack him along with one of our big 3 scorers should carry us through while our bench can chip in points. It may not be a scary looking bench but it's certainly solid enough and infinately better than what we had last year.

Douby can score but he's rail thin and the point looks stacked with Jose/Jack/Ukic right now. I actually prefer Smush over Douby aswell.


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## Dee-Zy (Jan 12, 2006)

How good is JJ at creating his own shot?


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## Dee-Zy (Jan 12, 2006)

Raps still need a spark off the bench though. Maybe Jarrett Jack can provide that. I remember watching the raptors second unit with Delfino 2 years ago and that was brutal to watch. They couldn't score a bucket to save their lives, their offense was stagnant and awkward. Perhaps with JJ, that will change.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

Dee-Zy said:


> Raps still need a spark off the bench though. Maybe Jarrett Jack can provide that. I remember watching the raptors second unit with Delfino 2 years ago and that was brutal to watch. They couldn't score a bucket to save their lives, their offense was stagnant and awkward. Perhaps with JJ, that will change.


JJ is a bit of a combo guard. He can definately create his own shot but doesn't look for it as much as let's say Mike James. 

Delfino is an all or nothing player. He's either money or he's pretty dreadful. I'm not stoked about getting him as the starting 2 but doesn't look like BC sees it the same way as me.


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## Dee-Zy (Jan 12, 2006)

With Bargnani, Hedo and Bosh on the floor, raps dont need firepower at the starting 2. They need firepower off the bench so the Offense doesn't stale when Bosh and Hedo or Bosh and Gnani goes to the bench.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

Dee-Zy said:


> With Bargnani, Hedo and Bosh on the floor, raps dont need firepower at the starting 2. They need firepower off the bench so the Offense doesn't stale when Bosh and Hedo or Bosh and Gnani goes to the bench.


But one of those three will always be on the floor so we don't that much more firepower. If we get Jack which looks likely the rotation looks fine to me in pretty much every way except when all the bench are on the floor at the same time, but the only time that will happen will be at the end of blow out wins or if we get hit by injuries to the big players. I don't even want firepower at the 2, I want solid defense that can pressure the opposite teams 'star man' as it always seem _that_ player goes and drops 40+ with the utmost ease.

I'm pretty happy with the team as it is minus Delfino at starting 2 and the depth at 3. But you can't have everything.


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## c_dog (Sep 15, 2002)

Porn_Player said:


> The rotation isn't going to be 15 man deep. The second unit will struggle for offense but how often is it a straight swap 5 for 5? The second unit will rarely all be on the floor at the same time and if we sign Jack him along with one of our big 3 scorers should carry us through while our bench can chip in points. It may not be a scary looking bench but it's certainly solid enough and infinately better than what we had last year.
> 
> Douby can score but he's rail thin and the point looks stacked with Jose/Jack/Ukic right now. I actually prefer Smush over Douby aswell.


the rotation isn't going to be 15 man deep but it's always nice to have at least 10 good players so that you can still have a nice 8 man rotation if one or two players go down with injury(and it's not like our players have been iron man these recent years). the starting lineup is average, maybe above average at best. jarret jack would be a tremendous luxury to bring off the bench but delfino is again, about average as a backup wing. and there isn't a quality bigman unless you want to count evans to back up bosh/bargnani. i'm not asking for a 15 man deep team but this team is about 7.5 deep.

douby is way better offensive player than smush. again, few players on this team have nba talent and douby is an nba scorer. i like him as a third string sg/spot minute sg. no every player can play well with inconsistent minutes and provide instant offense to his team whenever he's called upon.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

Smush has proved he is a legit NBA second tier scorer. Remember his LA days? What has Douby really proved? 

Hedo
Bosh
Bargnani
Jose
Jarrett Jack
Delfino (scoring, defense, abit sketchy in patches though)
Rasho (solid pro, defense, consistent, allround game)
Evans (rebounding, defense and hustle)
Anotine Wright (kid started 50+ games for a 50 win team in Dallas, has defense and I'm not to sure what else he will bring but he must have something)
DeMar DeRozan (rookie, consistent mid-range game, potential to be very good indeed)
Smush or Douby (scoring)
Ukic (impressive passing game, looks to have improved his shot quite alot)
George (Meh)
Pops (Hustle)


Which players out of there do you not think count towards depth? Ukic/Smush/Douby/George/Pops are the only ones for me. Annnd maybe DeMar as we can't say for sure how effective he will be. That leaves 9 solid players with maybe 10 again depending on DD.


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## c_dog (Sep 15, 2002)

Porn_Player said:


> Smush has proved he is a legit NBA second tier scorer. Remember his LA days? What has Douby really proved?
> 
> Hedo
> Bosh
> ...


smush loves to go for steals on defense(if you can count that as a positive), and is pretty athletic. that's where the positives end. his game is flawed(inconsistent jumpshot) and is a head case. i don't want to see him on this team.

i've already stated that the only legit contributors on this team are jose, hedo, bosh, bargs, DD, jack, and delfino. rest are recycled nba scrubs that really have no business seeing court time. there was no way wright would have started for the mavs if they had any other wing player at the 2. he started by default due to lack of talent. rasho is not a "pro".. people use these terms to describe him because there's nothing that he does on the court that makes him a good center, not even a good backup center. evans is a rebounder, that's it. he's not a good defender, i have no idea where you got that from. maybe you just assumed he's a good defender because he's a good rebounder ala ben wallace? he's a very dumb player and that's why he's never been a rotational player on a team despite his rebounding prowess.

jarret jack is a great player to have as your backup pg, but really, that's about where it ends for this team in terms of depth. the starting lineup is blowing anyone away and the bench is composed for recycled scrubs. recycled scrubs =/= good bench players. i would hate to see all these raptors fans be disappointed when the season starts and this supposedly "deep"/"great" roster have another mediocre season. maybe it's time fans put things in perspective and save themselves from heartbreaks. i don't think even colangelo believes this team can make it past the 1st round at this point.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree and see how the season pans out. I think you're unfair in your judgement of certain players but you could more than likely turn out to be right, but for now I'll stick with my optimism. This team was garbage last year and had no direction, now the team is atleast built to contend in the East (and in my eyes compete further than the 1st round) ... 

I would like a few more changes to occur but they'd only occur in a perfect world where the Raptors had first choice and no salary cap to worry about.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

If we get Jack I don't see how Smush will end up with the team since we already have 3 point guards with Ukic. Smush can play the 2 but I'm sure there are much better options.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

seifer0406 said:


> If we get Jack I don't see how Smush will end up with the team since we already have 3 point guards with Ukic. Smush can play the 2 but I'm sure there are much better options.


What better options?


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

> What better options?


I don't know, but there are better players than Smush Parker out there that BC can either sign or obtain in a minor trade. I would rather carry another forward than having Smush on the team. With Ukic/Jack/DeRozan/Wright we already have 4 guards on the bench, the last roster spot doesn't have to be a guard.

And if we do get Rasho/Jack/Delfino and keep guys like Wright and Pops around, that would give us 12 players already. I wouldn't risk having a time bomb like Smush on the team just to fill out the roster.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

I fully agree, I was just arguing Smush was better than Douby and then you jumped in so I wanted to know who left was actually a more serviceable NBA player. 

I'm pretty happy with the roster as it is, although would like another 3 to replace George.


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## Dee-Zy (Jan 12, 2006)

Juan Dixon? He's a FA.

Although I agree that a 3 that can score off the bench would of been perfect. Somebody a la Jamal Crawford or even Matt Barnes would of been nice.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

Say no to Juan Dixon. 

Matt Barnes was my guy but didn't he just sign somewhere else?

BC won't start the season with George as the backup 3 so I'm just gonna sit back, enjoy summer league and let him do the work.


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