# Artest a 71 in Live 2004?!



## Tactics (Mar 6, 2003)

What BS! Their ratings are so screwed up in that game, if I remember right Artest's quickness was in the 50's, which is no where near true considering he gets a ton of steals.


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## TMOD (Oct 12, 2002)

In 2003 his quickness was 91...which translates to an 82 in 2004.


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## Ubonics (Jul 12, 2002)

WTF is all I have to say, Artest was an 84 in 2003, now I dont own Live 2004 yet and I dont know hwo exactly they ahev changed their ratings system but to me at least that translates in alot of BS. Maybe the Stern-bot paid off EA to make Artest bad so ppl would think he wasnt good.

--Ubonics


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## MJG (Jun 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Ubonics</b>!
> WTF is all I have to say, Artest was an 84 in 2003, now I dont own Live 2004 yet and I dont know hwo exactly they ahev changed their ratings system but to me at least that translates in alot of BS. Maybe the Stern-bot paid off EA to make Artest bad so ppl would think he wasnt good.
> 
> --Ubonics


It's gone from 50-99 to 0-99 (I believe), so if all he did was drop from 84 to 71 then that's pretty good.


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## Tactics (Mar 6, 2003)

You have a good point MJG, I never really thought of the scale differences, but not like I care since I will be getting ESPN NBA Basketball instead.


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## TLR (May 28, 2003)

Artest is a guy who can dominate and take over a game without scoring. He can shut anyone down. He held T-Mac to 13 points in a game last year. Why is he rated 71?


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## MJG (Jun 29, 2003)

Assuming things were properly scaled when they moved from the 50 point rating system to the 100 point one, then he would be the equivalent of about an 85 in last year's version. That's not to bad, in my opinion.

Though if they didn't scale things exactly, well, I still think it's an approriate rating for him.


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## MLKG (Aug 25, 2003)

Rating conversions from previous games to 2004:

Take the 2004 rating, divide by 2, then add 50.

So Artest is rated 85 or 86 by the old standards, which I might add is pretty damn good.


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## TLR (May 28, 2003)

Rashard Lewis was 89 last year! :dead: And Artest is much better than him.


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## MLKG (Aug 25, 2003)

Actually Rashard is a lot better than Ron.


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## TLR (May 28, 2003)

Have you ever seen Ron Artest play? Just because he doesn't score as many points as Shard doesn't mean Shard is better. Ron Artest is better than Rashard Lewis at almost everything except shooting jumpers. And he is not as far behind in that as you think.


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## MLKG (Aug 25, 2003)

Of course I've seen him play.

Ron is a great defensive player and solid all around offensive player.

But Rashard is a capable defender, a better rebounder, has better range, and is a better inside player. Plus he has increased his scoring average every year he's been in the league.

I shouldn't say he is much better. But he IS better, and warrants a higher rating.


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## TLR (May 28, 2003)

Ron is the best 1 on 1 defender in the league. Shard is below par on defense. Despite what you said, Ron is a better rebounder. Ron is a better inside scorer. Artest is faster and can guard anybody on the floor. Shard has a more consistent jumper, but that's about it. Plus, Artest can take over the game at anytime by picking off a careless pass and taking it back for a dunk. It happens about once a game.


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## Pistolballer (May 9, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Mike luvs KG</b>!
> Of course I've seen him play.
> 
> Ron is a great defensive player and solid all around offensive player.
> ...


as much as i like Ron-Ron, im inclined to agree, as the great John Wooden once said "Shooting makes up for a multitude of sins."


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## TLR (May 28, 2003)

Artest is not that bad of a shooter. And he is much better than Lewis in all the other areas of play.


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## MillerTime (Jul 6, 2003)

Yeah you guys making Artest sound like Ben Wallace on offense. He's actually pretty decent shooter. Artest is MUCH better defensivly and much better rebounder. I bet, you guys looked at their averages and figured Lewis is much better.

Think about it.

Indiana had more scorers then Seattle which is why Artest scored 3pts less per game, although their shooting % and three point % were pretty similar. It just happened that Seattle had 3 scoring options and we had 5. Artest will score more this year then he did last year with Brad Miller gone. 

As for rebounding, sure Lewis had more rebounds per game then Artest, but that doesn't mean anything. It was nearly impossible for Artest to get boards for Pacers with O'Neal and BMiller on the court. And still, with those two on the court he still got almost 6 a game.

Lewis had to compete with......... oh wait, he's Seattle's best and only had 6 boards per game.

Like TLR said, Artest has Lewis beat in every category, except offense, although, he's not that far behind but way ahead of Lewis on defense and rebounding.


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## MLKG (Aug 25, 2003)

Nobody is saying Ron can't play. As an impartial crowd we are just saying you guys are seriously underrating Rashard Lewis.

Ron is a 15 point a game guy, and that's not going to change much as the talent around him chagnes. He was Indy's second leading scorer last year. It's not like he wasn't getting his shots.

Rashard Lewis will be at least a 20 point guy this year as a second option. He's got 3 inches on Ron and IS a better rebounder, expecially on the offensive end. Ron is a better passer and defender. But their assists to turnover and steals to turnover ratios are about the same. 

Right now there is not a huge difference, but Artest is pretty much already developed and Lewis is still getting better.


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## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

Basicaly it's hard on Live to analyze overall ratings on Live because if you are a better well rounded player, you have a better overall. Take K.G. being a 97, while Tim Duncan is a 92. It doesn't necessarily mean K.G. is better, but it means he does more things than Duncan which he does, but Duncan still is dominating down low. Just like Ron is still has dominating D on the game.


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## TLR (May 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Mike luvs KG</b>!
> Nobody is saying Ron can't play. As an impartial crowd we are just saying you guys are seriously underrating Rashard Lewis.
> 
> Ron is a 15 point a game guy, and that's not going to change much as the talent around him chagnes. He was Indy's second leading scorer last year. It's not like he wasn't getting his shots.
> ...


I wouldn't be shocked if Artest averaged 18 points a game this year. Artest is a better rebounder. We had Jermaine O'Neal and Brad Miller down low. Sonics had Vladimir Radmanovich and Peja Drobjnak. Whoever the hell that is.  And Artest and Lewis had almost the same rbounding numbers. If they switched teams last year Artest would probably average 8 rebounds a game and Lewis would average probably 4. They had similar shooting numbers. and Artest is a whole hell of a lot quicker and can guard anyone on the court. He has a rare combination of strength and quickness that Lewis does not. He can shut down anyone. I believe he held Kobe to 20 points last year when the guy took like 30 shots. You'll never see Lewis do that.


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## MillerTime (Jul 6, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Mike luvs KG</b>!
> Ron is a 15 point a game guy, and that's not going to change much as the talent around him chagnes. He was Indy's second leading scorer last year. It's not like he wasn't getting his shots.


Dude, once again i will say it. Artest scored 15per game last year, but we had 5 scorers on the team. Lewis scored like 16 and had only 3 scorers on that team. I suggest Lewis will be a 19-20/per scorer in the NBA while Artest is a 17-19/per scorer in his career, and that's pretty even. Then add Artest as the better defender and the better rebounder you get Artest being the better player.

And Artest is a better passer.


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## MLKG (Aug 25, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Mike luvs KG</b>!
> Actually Rashard is a lot better than Ron.


How about Rashard dropping 50 last night. 

Like I said, Ron is a great player but Lewis has a great shot that he has improved every year he's been in the league.

Anyone still think Ron is better?


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## FanOfAll8472 (Jun 28, 2003)

Mike luvs KG, why argue? I mean, it's a Pacers board. No offense to anyone, but it's obvious that they're biased in they're opinions. Maybe take this to the NBA Boards?  I think that Lewis is on par with Artest in terms of the all-around game. Defense and offense are obvious answers (say what you want about the stats, but Lewis, imho, has better skills).

Yeah the 2004 ratings are from 0-99 and a 71 is pretty good.



> Take K.G. being a 97, while Tim Duncan is a 92. It doesn't necessarily mean K.G. is better, but it means he does more things than Duncan which he does, but Duncan still is dominating down low. Just like Ron is still has dominating D on the game.


That's a good example, though I still think that TD should be higher.


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## Scott (Jan 15, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Mike luvs KG</b>!
> 
> 
> Right now there is not a huge difference, but Artest is pretty much already developed and Lewis is still getting better.


Artest is 3 months younger than Lewis. How is he done developing at the age of 23 (24 in a few days) while Lewis is still developing? 23 years old and already one of if not the best defender in the league. 

Rashard scored 50 this does not make him better than Artest with this one game. Artest has held many players below thier average or to a very bad shooting night, night in and night out while still scoring 15 points a game last season. He has improved his shot and don't be surprised if he averaged 18 this season.


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## MLKG (Aug 25, 2003)

I wouldn't be surprsied if Ron averaged 20 this year. But that doesn't mean I think he's better than Lewis. Ron is a great player. I'm not trying to argue that, but I think Rashard Lewis is one of the most promising young players in the league, he could be a REAL superstar. He has taken large steps of improvement every year and looking at his start this year he could make the all-star team in the talent stacked west.


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## MillerTime (Jul 6, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Mike luvs KG</b>!
> 
> 
> How about Rashard dropping 50 last night.
> ...


Maybe Rashard is better, but no way you can tell because of one game. Like i said, Lewis is a scorer on a weak team. If Lewis won't score then who will?? Esspicially now that Allen is out. He is the go-to guy each time down the court, unlike with Artest, we look for O'Neal, Harrington and Miller just as much.


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## IosimCash (Aug 6, 2003)

i rather have artest on my team then Rashard any dyay. Who broke that kobe scorin streak last year...thatsright it was Indiana.

In the East especially Artest is better...where he has to guard Rip, Stack, AI, Tmac, Vince, Houston, etc. He was a close second to wallace in Defensive player of the year last year, and methinks the only reason why Wallace got it...is becaue his defense can be seen through stats while Artest's cant.

Rashard wont dominate like he did when he played the clipps...for gods sake it was he clipps without their best player, and Seattles first option injured as well.


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## MLKG (Aug 25, 2003)

A close second in DPOY voting?

Wallace received 531 of a possible 585 points. Including 100 out of 117 first place votes.

More like a distant second.


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## TLR (May 28, 2003)

Shows you that media members just look at stats. Ben Wallace is the best help defender in the league. But, at 1 on 1 defense in the post he is sometimes exploited because of lack of height. I think Jermaine has always had his way with Ben last year and in the game this year. Whereas Artest is the best 1 on 1 defender in the league. He's second in steals behind Iverson who really shouldn't count because he doesn't try to do anything on defense except get steals.


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## MLKG (Aug 25, 2003)

Artest may be a better 1 on 1 defender, but basketball is not a 1 on 1 game. Ben is far and away the best team defender in the league. Sometimes people try to generalize his game by saying he is a great rebounder and helpside shot blocker and an average man up defender- but that really doesn't even begin to describe what he does.

He intimidates and changes sooooo many shots that can't be expressed through stats and he hustles after everything and gets rebounds that nobody should ever get. He's also mastered the underappreciated art of the back tap, when he can't get a rebound he is great at tapping it out to a guy who can- which has made the Pistons the best offensive rebounding team in the league this year.

He's 2nd in rebounds, 3rd in blocks, and 5th in steals right now- and showing no signs of slowing down.

He's not the best 1 on 1 defender in the game, but he's not bad either.

I think barring injury he is a shoe in for DPOY again this year.


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## TLR (May 28, 2003)

No argument that he is a great player, but since when is rebounds a defensive stat?


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*Artest is a great player*

And he scares the crap out of me. His offense is improving by the day. He can shoot, defend, rebound and provides energy. His basketball IQ is remarkably high. He has even calmed down and cut out the technicals and flagrants. But I think Bruce Bowen is a better defender. Sorry.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Artest and Wallace are very different defensive players.

Artests defence shows up as a low scoring game to the person hes defending.

Wallace shows up as a whole bunch of blocks and rebounds.

Whos the better defender? Probably better left to the experts to decide. I dont know how to accuratly judge between the two.


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## TLR (May 28, 2003)

*Re: Artest is a great player*



> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> And he scares the crap out of me. His offense is improving by the day. He can shoot, defend, rebound and provides energy. His basketball IQ is remarkably high. He has even calmed down and cut out the technicals and flagrants. But I think Bruce Bowen is a better defender. Sorry.


Bruce Bowen?:whofarted Seriously, everytime I watch him play I wonder what all of the defensive hype is about. He's not intimidating at all. He's like a life-sized teddy bear with a good 3 pt stroke.


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## Scott (Jan 15, 2003)

Defensive rebounding is definetly a defensive stat: you rebound the ball on defense it is the end of the other teams posession.
Ron outplayed Rashard tonight.
Bruce Bowen is a good defender but he is not as good as Artest.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Scott</b>!
> Defensive rebounding is definetly a defensive stat: you rebound the ball on defense it is the end of the other teams posession.
> Ron outplayed Rashard tonight.
> Bruce Bowen is a good defender but he is not as good as Artest.


I like that answer. 5 staR in my books.


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## shazha (Nov 20, 2002)

Ok firstly i really dont wanna hear all this about IF Artest was with the sonics he'd average 8 rebounds and 20 ppg. Can u pacer fans just imagine what rashard would be like in the pacers system? CAn u imagine JO down low, and how many double teams he draws? My god Rashard would be averaging something crazy like 25ppg, with all those open 3 pointers he would get.

IF IF IF, if we are going to argue the situation and team as to the reason for a players success, then the same could be said about artests inflated stats. 

Rashard, plays in a much harder western conference, in that they have much stronger interior and team defenses. He plays on a team that has no one who can draw a double team. They rebound the ball as a team, but the sonics play an uptempo run and gun. To play this well with the sonics rashard must be something special.

Artest is a great defender, and very strong for a guard. But individual lock down defenders in my books are very over rated. TEAM defense in my oppinion can stop superstar players. You cant accredit it all to one defensive stopper. 

I'd much rather have rashard on my team (and im not a rashard fan) , and let the team play good team defence, switching, stopping cutters, boxing out, playing the passing lanes. IF your team does that u dont need an artest type player. I'd much rather a guy who can put the ball in the hoop, and create his own shot, on a regular basis.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Lock down defenders are overrated? Its guys like Artest who hold the Kobes and TMacs to 15, not team defence. It helps, but the main reason is lock down defenders.


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