# VOTE: Top 25 All Time College Players



## kansasalumn

Lets vote each posters Top 25 players of College all time. Below is the critia you need to follow

1-DO NOT let their pro career be a factor. aka Christian Laetner and Raef LaFrentz they were great college ball players average pro players

2 NO one and done players. yes Melo was one of the greatest players as a frosh to lead a championship. 

3 your list must not be only from the past 20 years (ESPN years) must be from the begiinning 110 plus years.

Then when I feel the time is right I will tally up them up and we can have our own Basketballforum.com top 25 college basketball players of all time


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## kansasalumn

*Re: VOTE your Top 25 college players*

1 Bill Russell
2 Kareem Abdul-Jabar
3 Oscar Robertson
4 Bill Walton
5 Pete Maravich
6 Wilt Chamberlain
7 David Thompson
8 Bill Bradley
9 Larry Bird
10 Elvin Hayes
11 Christian Laettner
12 Magic Johnson
13 Jerry Lucas
14 George Mikan
15 Jerry West
16 Patrick Ewing
17 Austin Carr
18 Ralph Sampson
19 Danny Manning
20 Rick Barry
21 Tom Gola
22 Isiah Tohmas
23 Elgin Baylor
24 Bob Cousey
25 Dan Issell


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## kansasalumn

*Re: VOTE your Top 25 college players*

Also you have the right to change anytime


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## kansasalumn

*Re: VOTE your Top 25 college players*

Has anyone have their list pile up?


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## TM

*Re: VOTE your Top 25 college players*

I'm working on it... this is tough


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## BlueBaron

*Re: VOTE your Top 25 college players*

I'll have one come Monday evening. This _is_ tough.


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## TM

*Re: VOTE your Top 25 college players*

I went back and re-read through out very own Top 100 College Basketball Players of All Time thread. I reconsidered and decided to take the advice of some of you all (Laettner out of my Top 10 ). Just to be clear – When I made this list, I tried to take into account both the success of the individual and their personal dominance as well as their team’s success. I’m sure it’s not flawless, so feel free to critique my list. Here goes…

*1. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (Lew Alcindor)*
3x All-American, ’69 POY, 3 NCAA titles
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1a. Tyler Hansbrough

*2. Bill Walton*
3x POY, 3x All-American, 2 NCAA titles
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*3. Bill Russell*
’56 USA POY, 2 NCAA titles, 2 undefeated seasons, 20+ppg and 20+rpg during his career
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*4. Oscar Robertson*
3x POY, 30+ppg and 15+rpg, during his career
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*5. Pete Maravich*
’70 POY, 3x All-American, 40+ppg and 6+rpg during his career
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*6. Larry Bird*
’79 POY, 2x All-American, 30+ppg and 13+rpg and 4+apg during his career 
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*7. David Thompson*
’75 POY, 3x All-American, NCAA title, 26+ppg and 8+rpg during his career
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*8. Wilt Chamberlain*
2x All-American, NCAA title, 30+ppg and 17+rpg during his career
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*9. Jerry Lucas*
2x POY, 3x All-American, NCAA title, 24+ppg and 17+rpg during his career 
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*10. Tom Gola*
4x All-American, 1 NCAA title, 1 NIT title (not the same as today’s NIT), averaged 20+ppg and 18+rpg during his career, NCAA’s all-time leading rebounder

*11. Elvin Hayes*
’68 POY, 2x All-American, 30+ppg and 17+rpg during his career

*12. Christian Laettner*
’92 POY, All-American, 2 NCAA titles, 4 Final Fours
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*13. Bill Bradley*
’65 POY, 3x All-American, 30+ppg and 12+rpg during his career
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*14. Jerry West*
2x All-American, 24+ppg and 13+rpg during his career
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*15. Magic Johnson*
2x All-American, NCAA title
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*16. Patrick Ewing*
’86 POY, 3x All-American, NCAA title
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*17. Michael Jordan*
’84 POY, 2x All-American, NCAA title
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*18. Ralph Sampson*
 3x POY, 3x All-American
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*19. George Mikan*
’46 POY, 2x All-American

*20. Austin Carr*
 ’71 POY, 34+ppg and 7+rpg during his career

*21. Cazzie Russell*
 ’56 POY, 2x All-American, 27+ppg during his career

*22. Danny Manning*
’88 POY, 2x All-American, NCAA title

*23. Rick Barry*
All-American, 29+ppg and 16+rpg during his career

*24. Calvin Murphy*
 2x All-American, 33+ppg and 4rpg during his career

*25. Elgin Baylor*
’All-American, 30+ppg and 19+rpg during his career
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_I reserve the right to come back and change some of these. _


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## BlueBaron

*Re: VOTE your Top 25 college players*

Hell of a list TM. Nice touch with the vids also. Good stuff.


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## bball2223

*Re: VOTE your Top 25 college players*

1. Lew Alcindor
2. Pete Maravich
3. Bill Walton
4. Bill Russell
5. Oscar Robertson
6. Wilt Chamberlain
7. Christian Laettner
8. Larry Bird
9. David Thompson
10. Patrick Ewing
11. Magic Johnson
12. Ralph Sampson
13. Jerry West
14. Elvin Hayes
15. Tom Gola
16. Bill Bradley
17. Danny Manning
18. Austin Carr
19. Calvin Murphy
20. George Mikan
21. Jerry Lucas
22. Bevo Francis
23. Rick Barry
24. Bobby Hurley
25. Steve Alford


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## BlueBaron

1. Pete Maravich
(1a. Christian Laettner)
2. Lew Alcindor
3. Bill Russell
4. Oscar Robertson
5. Wilt Chamberlain
6. Bill Walton
7. Magic Johnson
8. Larry Bird
9. David Thompson
10. Patrick Ewing
11. Elvin Hayes
12. Ralph Sampson
13. Jerry West
14. Michael Jordan
15. Mark Aguire
16. Bill Bradley
17. Danny Manning
18. Dan Issel
19. Tom Gola
20. Christian Laettner (head stomper)
21. Jerry Lucas
22. George Mikan
23. Hank Gathers
24. Elgin Baylor
25. Bevo Francis


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## TM

:laugh:

you're an idiot. punk.


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## BlueBaron

TM said:


> :laugh:
> 
> you're an idiot. punk.


Why this time? :biggrin:


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## TM

nvm


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## BlueBaron

You know I actually thought I had Laettner on there. LOL... I'll fix that. Btw, I never knew you had such a fondness for Tyler...


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## kansasalumn

ok I will give voting ends this Sunday Mothers day then only us 4 will represent basketballforum.com top 25 greatest college players


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## ExplorerSteve

Here is my top 12 based on Points and Rebounds...
The 12 Players with 4,000 or More Career Points and Rebounds 
Rank Player,School Points Rebounds Total 
1st Tom Gola, La Salle 2462 2201 4663 
2nd Lionel Simmons, La Salle 3217 1429 4646 
3rd Elvin Hayes, Houston 2884 1602 4486 
4th Dickie Hemric, W. Forest 2587 1802 4389 
5th Oscar Robertson, Cinc. 2973 1338 4311 
6th Joe Holup, G. Washington 2226 2030 4256 
7th Pete Maravich, Louisiana St. 3667 528 4195 
8th Harry Kelly, Texas Southern 3066 1085 4151 
9th Danny Manning, Kansas 2951 1187 4138 
10th Larry Bird, Indiana St. 2850 1247 4097 
11th Elgin Baylor, Idaho/Seattle 2500 1559 4059 
12th Michael Brooks, La Salle 2628 1372 4000 

Gola is still the NCAA Div 1 leader in career rebounds.
Here are my remaining selections...

13th Bill Russell - SF - his team beat LaSalle in 1955 NCAA championship game.
14th Wilt Chamberlain - Kansas
15th Bill Walton - UCLA
16th Lew Alcindor - UCLA
17th Christian Laettner - Duke
18th George Mikan - DePaul
19th Ralph Sampson - Virginia
20th Jerry West - West Virginia
21st Patrick Ewing - Georgetown
22nd Bill Bradley - Princeton
23rd Tim Ducan - Wake Forest
24th Isiah Thomas - Indiana
25th Michael Jordan - NC


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## kansasalumn

ExplorerSteve said:


> Here is my top 12 based on Points and Rebounds...
> The 12 Players with 4,000 or More Career Points and Rebounds
> Rank Player,School Points Rebounds Total
> 1st Tom Gola, La Salle 2462 2201 4663
> 2nd Lionel Simmons, La Salle 3217 1429 4646
> 3rd Elvin Hayes, Houston 2884 1602 4486
> 4th Dickie Hemric, W. Forest 2587 1802 4389
> 5th Oscar Robertson, Cinc. 2973 1338 4311
> 6th Joe Holup, G. Washington 2226 2030 4256
> 7th Pete Maravich, Louisiana St. 3667 528 4195
> 8th Harry Kelly, Texas Southern 3066 1085 4151
> 9th Danny Manning, Kansas 2951 1187 4138
> 10th Larry Bird, Indiana St. 2850 1247 4097
> 11th Elgin Baylor, Idaho/Seattle 2500 1559 4059
> 12th Michael Brooks, La Salle 2628 1372 4000
> 
> Gola is still the NCAA Div 1 leader in career rebounds.
> 
> Others I'd include are the obvious ones - the guys who led there teams to championships including Laettner, Lew Alcindor, Bill Walton.


thank you, but if you would like your voting count I need your 13 to 25 teams,


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## southhampton

Im trying to put my list together but I have a question, are current players allowed in? Hansbrough isnt done yet but to me he needs to be in this discussion, is he allowed in the list?


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## kflo

if you combined maravich and laettner's careers you get a top 5 player. otherwise, you get top 30 for each, imo. laettner had great moments, but there were many better, more impactful overall players in college. and maravich simply was a lone gunner on some bad/mediocre teams. look what larry bird did at indy state, and compare that to maravich at lsu.


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## TM

kflo said:


> laettner had great moments, but there were many better, more impactful overall players in college.


I'd like to hear more behind that statement.


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## TM

bonatool said:


> Hansbrough isnt done yet but to me he needs to be in this discussion, is he allowed in the list?


Sure you can! But... he shouldn't bo on the list at this point in his career. :biggrin:


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## Ninerballin

ExplorerSteve said:


> Here is my top 12 based on Points and Rebounds...
> The 12 Players with 4,000 or More Career Points and Rebounds
> Rank Player,School Points Rebounds Total
> 1st Tom Gola, La Salle 2462 2201 4663
> 2nd Lionel Simmons, La Salle 3217 1429 4646
> 3rd Elvin Hayes, Houston 2884 1602 4486
> 4th Dickie Hemric, W. Forest 2587 1802 4389
> 5th Oscar Robertson, Cinc. 2973 1338 4311
> 6th Joe Holup, G. Washington 2226 2030 4256
> 7th Pete Maravich, Louisiana St. 3667 528 4195
> 8th Harry Kelly, Texas Southern 3066 1085 4151
> 9th Danny Manning, Kansas 2951 1187 4138
> 10th Larry Bird, Indiana St. 2850 1247 4097
> 11th Elgin Baylor, Idaho/Seattle 2500 1559 4059
> 12th Michael Brooks, La Salle 2628 1372 4000
> 
> Gola is still the NCAA Div 1 leader in career rebounds.
> 
> Others I'd include are the obvious ones - the guys who led there teams to championships including Laettner, Lew Alcindor, Bill Walton.



Thanks for the La Salle bias Steve, Brooks, lol? BTW, Linoel wouldn't even sniff the top 25.


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## Ninerballin

1. Lew Alcindor - UCLA
2. Bill Russell - SF
3. Pete Maravich - LSU
4. Bill Walton - UCLA
5. David Thompson - NC St.
6. Oscar Robertson - Cinci
7. Larry Bird - Indiana St.
8. Magic Johnson - Michigan St.
9. Christian Laettner - Duke
10. George Mikan - Depaul
11. Tom Gola - La Salle
12. Jerry Lucas - Ohio St.
13. Elvin Hayes - Houston
14. Bill Bradley - Princeton
15. Wilt Chamberlain - Kansas
16. Patrick Ewing - Georgetown
17. Jerry West - West Virginia
18. Michael Jordan - UNC @ Chapel Hill
19. Elgin Baylor - Seattle
20. Ralph Sampson - Virginia
21. Isiah Thomas - Indiana
22. Danny Manning - Kansas
23. Bob Lanier - Saint Bonaventure
24. Hank Gathers - Loyola Maramount
25. Tim Ducan - Wake Forest

Tough to leave out guys like Cousy, Mullin, Olajuwon, Robinson, and Shihugo Green, but that's the nature of the list, guys must be left out.


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## kflo

TM said:


> I'd like to hear more behind that statement.


laettner played 4 years, and was a 1x 1st team all-american. contemporary players like shaq, jimmy jackson, larry johnson were all comparable and arguably superior in terms of on-court impact.


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## TM

at the college level?


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## kflo

TM said:


> at the college level?


yes, obviously i'm talking about the college level. all 3 were 2x 1st teamers. all 3 statistically at least as good, at least as good defensively. lj was simply a beast, as was shaq of course.


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## TM

but did they have the TOTAL college careers that Laettner did? same caliber of players around them that Laettner did (you could argue that that's why he won the titles, so I won't compare the # of titles Laettner has vs. the other guys, but wouldn't you expect a player with better teammates around him to have "worse" statistics?)? And how did Shaq fair in his college matchup against Laettner?


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## bball2223

Laettner was the best player on one of the best teams in the country during his stay at Duke. He hit the most memorable shots in NCAA history, and won a title. He was a bust in the NBA but he is one of the top 25 college players to ever play the game.


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## MANGHAM

I like Ninerballin's list. Btw no way was Laettner one of the top 25 players of all time.


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## TM

^:lol:


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## kflo

TM said:


> but did they have the TOTAL college careers that Laettner did? same caliber of players around them that Laettner did (you could argue that that's why he won the titles, so I won't compare the # of titles Laettner has vs. the other guys, but wouldn't you expect a player with better teammates around him to have "worse" statistics?)? And how did Shaq fair in his college matchup against Laettner?


do you think if laettner played on lsu he would have put up shaq numbers? 

i'm not arguing that shaq or lj deserve to be ahead of laettner. just some context of his career, so that we can measure him against guys like bird, ewing, sampson, jordan, manning, wilt, thompson, hayes, we have a good idea of their relative stature in their days.


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## ExplorerSteve

Ninerballin said:


> Thanks for the La Salle bias Steve, Brooks, lol? BTW, Linoel wouldn't even sniff the top 25.


Michael Brooks was chosen as the captain for the Olympic team in 1980... when only amateurs could play... but the games got boycotted due to politics. Brooks was the 1980 College Player of the Year.

Lionel Simmons scored 3,217 points and over 1400 rebounds. He is the ONLY player with over 3,000 points and 1,100 rebounds. He led the Explorers to 4 post-season berths (3 NCAAs) and a 30-2 record in 89-90. He was the unanimous College Player of the Year for 1990.

Name one Charlotte 49ers player that is even close to those 2.


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## TM

kflo said:


> do you think if laettner played on lsu he would have put up shaq numbers?


Aside from rebounding, yes.

I guess I'm taking the guy's entire careers into account as well as how they were as individual players.


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## kflo

TM said:


> Aside from rebounding, yes.
> 
> I guess I'm taking the guy's entire careers into account as well as how they were as individual players.


and blocks, of course. and it's pretty unlikely he scores 27.6 ppg on 63% fg%.

he had a 4 year career that got better each year. as a junior he emerged as one of the 5-10 best players in the country, as a senior arguably the best. contrast that with guys like ewing and sampson who were forces from day 1, and continued for 4 years.


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## TM

kflo said:


> and blocks, of course. and it's pretty unlikely he scores 27.6 ppg on 63% fg%


Laettner with nearly 3x more steals so that block number really doesn't affect much in my thinking. Shaq scored 24 his senior year, 3 less than the 27 his junior year (what you gave). Oh, and Laettner shot 58% and scored 22 his senior season, two less than Shaq's final collegiate season. He finished with 4 more Final Fours, won two more national championships, blah blah blah. I just keep saying the same things over and over. 

Ranking college careers - how dominant they were as individuals, what they accomplished individually / award-wise (new word  ), what their teams accomplished, what they brought to their teams... all that stuff. I can't argue with you about how good they proved to be as individual players. Maybe I'm just making excuses so that I can put him in on the list. But when other major groups include him in any discussion when it comes to the Top 10-15 collegiate players of all time, I feel be pretty good about including him in mine.


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## kflo

TM said:


> Laettner with nearly 3x more steals so that block number really doesn't affect much in my thinking. Shaq scored 24 his senior year, 3 less than the 27 his junior year (what you gave). Oh, and Laettner shot 58% and scored 22 his senior season, two less than Shaq's final collegiate season. He finished with 4 more Final Fours, won two more national championships, blah blah blah. I just keep saying the same things over and over.
> 
> Ranking college careers - how dominant they were as individuals, what they accomplished individually / award-wise (new word  ), what their teams accomplished, what they brought to their teams... all that stuff. I can't argue with you about how good they proved to be as individual players. Maybe I'm just making excuses so that I can put him in on the list. But when other major groups include him in any discussion when it comes to the Top 10-15 collegiate players of all time, I feel be pretty good about including him in mine.


you're not seriously going to equate laettner's steals (2 spg) with shaq having 2 consecutive seasons with 5+ bpg, are you? 

and what is the point regarding shaq's scoring in his soph and junior seasons? does it mean we don't count shaq's 27.6 because he did it as a soph?


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## kflo

and again, individually, laettner was a 1x 1st teammer.


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## TM

kflo said:


> you're not seriously going to equate laettner's steals (2 spg) with shaq having 2 consecutive seasons with 5+ bpg, are you?
> 
> and what is the point regarding shaq's scoring in his soph and junior seasons? does it mean we don't count shaq's 27.6 because he did it as a soph?


You're giving me "inflated" stats of a great basketball player who played on a team that,_ I don't think_, was anywhere near as good as the other individual's team. Now before I start giving inaccurate information / statistics about an LSU player / team, I'll let our resident LSU expert (Geaux Tigers) tell us how good those LSU teams actually where. Did you by any chance see any of those LSU teams or are you just going by stats? I have not. You may have so you may know better than I.

Who had the better college career - as an individual player (statistically, awards, etc.) and as a team player (team's success)? Shaq or Laettner?

Oh, and I mentioned the senior season's PPG b/c Shaq's weren't really much higher than Laettner's, and Laettner's team was probably better.

I still think it's funny that you're still so adamant about it when basically every other sports group made up of multiple individuals / "experts" that does a list like this has him in the Top 15.

Again, it's your opinion, so that's totally fine. I'm really not making fun of you or anything.


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## kflo

i don't see how "experts" can be adamant about a 1x 1st teamer being a clear top 15 all-time. i can understand the argument, because he was a big player on great teams and had some of the great individual moments in ncaa history, but those individual moments overly influence perception around him. 

lsu was a 9/10 loss team each of shaq's 3 years. and a tourney bust.


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## TM

Because legends are made in March. 

Aside from a school's own fans and college basketball fanatics, people don't watch except in March.


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## Geaux Tigers

TM said:


> You're giving me "inflated" stats of a great basketball player who played on a team that,_ I don't think_, was anywhere near as good as the other individual's team. Now before I start giving inaccurate information / statistics about an LSU player / team, I'll let our resident LSU expert (Geaux Tigers) tell us how good those LSU teams actually where. Did you by any chance see any of those LSU teams or are you just going by stats? I have not. You may have so you may know better than I.
> 
> Who had the better college career - as an individual player (statistically, awards, etc.) and as a team player (team's success)? Shaq or Laettner?
> 
> Oh, and I mentioned the senior season's PPG b/c Shaq's weren't really much higher than Laettner's, and Laettner's team was probably better.
> 
> I still think it's funny that you're still so adamant about it when basically every other sports group made up of multiple individuals / "experts" that does a list like this has him in the Top 15.
> 
> Again, it's your opinion, so that's totally fine. I'm really not making fun of you or anything.


Early 90's LSU is probably one of the areas I dont know much about. I was only 5 years old. However I have a Dale Brown book on my summer reading list that I'll have to read and get back to you. :biggrin:

There will always be a debate over greatest players. So many different levels of competition and so many different time period and conferences. IMO team accomplishments have to come into play but you cant fault a guy for not having the talent around him to win a championship. A guy like Larry Bird becomes legendary because of what he did leading a team that was unheard of the the title game. However we are probably judging it by how we view Indiana State today. That team was probably a lot more even to its competition than it would be today.

I think you have to find that balance between individual and team accomplishments. You also have to try and not judge a guy by his pro career.


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## kansasalumn

To those who made comments, do you have a Top 25 rankings of all time players and please post


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## survivor

1. Pete Maravich - LSU 
2. Lew Alcindor - UCLA
3. David Gibbs - UMass
4. Bill Russell - SF
5. Wilt Chamberlain - Kansas
6. Oscar Robertson - Cincinnati
7. Bill Walton - UCLA
8. Larry Bird - Indiana St.
9. Bill Bradley - Princeton
10. Tom Gola - La Salle
11. David Thompson - NC State
12. Magic Johnson - Michigan State
13. Patrick Ewing - Georgetown
14. Christian Laettner - Duke
15. Ralph Sampson - Virginia
16. Elvin Hayes - Houston
17. George Mikan - DePaul
18. Jerry Lucas - Ohio State
19. Jerry West - WVU
20. Bob Lanier - SBU
21. Danny Manning - Kansas
22. Elgin Baylor - Seattle
23. Michael Jordan - UNC-Chapel Hill
24. Isiah Thomas - Indiana
25. Rick Barry - Miami


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## kansasalumn

Ok there is still time to vote. Voting ends at end of month. So far the offical rankings are this. Vote count is not in post as I am needign to get back to work. If you do not like it it, change your votes or to those who has not post, post your top 25 to be counted

1 maravich
2 AbbdulJabar (Alicender)
3 Russell
4 Robertson
5 Walton
6 Bird
7 Wilt
8 David thompson
9 Elvin Hayes
10 Magic
11 Gola
12 Laettner
13 Bill bradley
14 Patrick Ewing
15 Ralph sampson
16 Jerry West
17 Jerry Lucas
---George Mikan
19 Danny Manning
20 MJ
21 Elgin baylor
22 Lionel Simmons
23 David Gibbs
---Austin Carr
25 Dickie Hemric

o


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## TM

yo ka, you can't rank a kid (david gibbs) who hasn't even played a college game yet


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## Ninerballin

ExplorerSteve said:


> Michael Brooks was chosen as the captain for the Olympic team in 1980... when only amateurs could play... but the games got boycotted due to politics. Brooks was the 1980 College Player of the Year.
> 
> Lionel Simmons scored 3,217 points and over 1400 rebounds. He is the ONLY player with over 3,000 points and 1,100 rebounds. He led the Explorers to 4 post-season berths (3 NCAAs) and a 30-2 record in 89-90. He was the unanimous College Player of the Year for 1990.
> 
> Name one Charlotte 49ers player that is even close to those 2.


see Henry Williams and Cedric Maxwell.


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## kansasalumn

TM said:


> yo ka, you can't rank a kid (david gibbs) who hasn't even played a college game yet


well some poster put that name on their list


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## kansasalumn

kansasalumn said:


> well some poster put that name on their list


but in this case I may have to alter that because player never played a game


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## kansasalumn

Final Rankings Right here, comment there on what you think.


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