# After some of the dust settled



## Crimson the Cat (Dec 30, 2002)

Summer league is over. Didn't it seem shorter than year's past? I'm a little bummed, but can't wait for the RMR to start next weekend.

*Jarrett Jack* 

Talks haven't been engaged. They've been finalized! No freaking way he's apart of this team next year. He doesn't fit any longer. Sergio is still the future, IMO. Blake is the placeholder until Sergio's time. Taureen Green showed grit playing out of position so that Kopenen could showcase his stuff. Portland knows what to expect from Green. He sticks on this club.

Jack's value is high and won't get any higher with the gluttony of guards here. Time to SELL!

*Martell Webster*

I want to like him. I don't. Is it just me or does his personality smack of elitism. I can appreciate a player trying to lead, but he seems to be coming on too strong. I saw him barking at players a few times throughout the SL. Throw in the fact that he doesn't consistently do anything other than hit the outside shot (I'm sorry but I want more out a perimeter player!), I'd be ok packaging him with another player. His value could increase if given the back up roll to Roy, but I don't believe he'll find many minutes at the forward spot. It's a risk, but I'm ready to give up on him. 

*McRoberts*

Can't believe he fell to us. Did Pritch sell his soul or something? He's got to get stronger and work on the shot, but overall his craftiness and passing abilities are going to make our second unit very fun and efficient. I've seen enough that I'd be quite comfortable moving Outlaw so that McRoberts has a solid spot in the rotation. 

*Outlaw*

See above. Stockpiling talent is wonderful, but Outlaw's value is as high as it will get IMO. Before we knew what we had with McRob and Freeland, I would be for keeping TO. For me he has become expendable.

*Freeland*

Improved every game. Needs to play. Won't in Europe. Needs the NBDL. 

*Przybilla* 

I'd be cool with keeping the big guy. If the right deal presents itself, pull the trigger though. With his contract, it's really only a matter of time anyway.

*Needs*

The way I see it Pritchard needs to turn Jack, Webster, and Outlaw (maybe even Prz) into another big guard (good shooter and handles) and a defensive-minded forward (shootings a plus but not necessary with Blake, Roy, and Adridge).

I still say flip Prz for Brent Barry (or Hedo). But ultimately, I would think there's some way to turn those four players into what this team needs. Marvin Williams or Josh Childress are the players that I keep coming back to.

Your thoughts?

GO BLAZERS


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## Spoolie Gee (Feb 3, 2005)

IMO opinions on players shouldn't change much, if at all, based on summer league. SL is rec ball and some players excel in that style while others struggle without the structure of regular season. My thoughts on our players havent changed one way or the other outside of getting to see Freeland for the first time and being impressed by his skill set.


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## majic_sean (Dec 22, 2004)

McRoberts is the one who I have been impressed by. Did anyone else see his driving behind the back pass by two Sonics tonight for an open lay-in? The youtube video of his dunks got me excited too. I wonder what the rotation will end up looking like next year. As of right now it is really hard to tell...

Sergio still plays some high risk basketball but his ball control looks really good. I don't have a problem with him being the third string pointguard on this team. He is not ready to take over and is still turn over prone.I like him a lot and think his upside is way higher than any point guard on the team but I am ready to win now and I feel Blake and Jack are better prepared to do this. I hope he proves me wrong but I don't think he will be ready to start for another year or two.

I hope Zendon Hamilton gets signed by someone. If we weren't so stacked he would make a nice powerhouse down low but there is no place for him here. Maybe he and Udoka will get picked up by someone.

Concerning Ime, I love the guy and last year his story was one of the brightest spots of the season. However I feel like he should go for the big money somewhere else since it is unlikely he will have a chance for much longer to do so. I would also like to keep him as a Blazer since his D and 3 are so nice to have which we are weak at that position. From his point of view though, he should go for the money somewhere else.


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## GOD (Jun 22, 2003)

I would love to keep Jack unless a true starting quality SF can be had for him. Yes, we will have a lot of PG's, but they each have their strengths, and I like Jack more than Blake. Sergio I just don't know about. I want Sergio to get playing time, but he is still really raw.

McRoberts showed that he has great hands for passing and moves well, but he is very raw to actually rely on for anything this year. I would love for him to hold down the end of the bench and get more time in years to come. For now, I would much rather play Outlaw.

Webster - I hear you Crimson, I have a hard time getting behind Webster or believing that he will ever put it together. I think he, more than almost any other HS to NBA players, needed to mature mentally in college for a few years before he would be ready to take advantage of his natural talents. He just seems like a little kid in an adults body, and not in a cute way, but in a "but I don't wanna go to bed yet" sort of way. But he can stroke it and he may mature if the Blazers keep him. I would not mind seeing him traded, but with how thing we are at SF and with 3pt shooters, I figure we best keep him for now.

Przybilla - we don't need him. He is a nice guy, but he is broken. And, he doesnt fit into the teams plans anymore. In the past I would have suggested that we keep him and showcase him till the deadline, but the last several times the Blazers did that it didn't seem to pay off. So, drop him like he's hot.

Freeland - I was really impressed with his play. I was following him throughout last year and I was sure that he was going to be a stinker since he couldn't get off the bench, but he moves real well for a big guy, has a decent set of post moves, defends pretty well and is energetic. In today's game, he grabbed a rebound on one play and then booked down court and was the first Blazer to make it to the other end. Once again, he is raw but would be a good D-league guy.

Green - he couldn't make a shot today, but in days past he shot pretty well and ran the point very consistantly, but what impressed me most was his defense. For a small guy, he is a darn good defender.

Pete Koponen - I really wish I got to see more of him at the point because he stunk it up when he played SG. But when he did get a shot at point, he played pretty well. For now, I would like him to stay in Europe since he is so young and raw. But I could see him being a good player in a couple of years.

LMA - Oh Boy I love this guy. I really think he will end up being the best player from his class and that might come sooner than later. And I love his fire. 

More thoughts will come out when I'm not so tired. night everyone.


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## LameR (Jan 4, 2004)

majic_sean said:


> Sergio still plays some high risk basketball but his ball control looks really good. I don't have a problem with him being the third string pointguard on this team. He is not ready to take over and *is still turn over prone.*


After reading this, I ignored the rest of your post. You have no idea what you're talking about. He had almost a 3:1 assist:turnover ratio last year.


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## Sambonius (May 21, 2003)

LameR said:


> After reading this, I ignored the rest of your post. You have no idea what you're talking about. He had almost a 3:1 assist:turnover ratio last year.


Ditto. The fallacy that Sergio is "turnover prone" or "out of control" or "raw" is getting pretty tiresome. The kid out did Magic, Stockton, and Nash numbers when they came into the league older. I think Sergio improved big time this summer league. The one aspect that is Sergio's weakest game is his defense which still needs a lot of improvement but he has done a good job of picking off a lot of passes and playing the passing lanes. Sergio > Jack without a doubt. Sergio is a guy who sets up others, when you stick him with guys with no experience on the offensive you won't see many results. I would like him to also be more aggressive on the offensive end. He is the reason Jack is getting traded, count on it.


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## hoojacks (Aug 12, 2004)

I disagree on outlaw, I think we need to keep him and let him and Jones battle it out for either the starting SF spot or the main bulk of the backup minutes after we aquire a starting SF.


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## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

Jack- Traded period. No way in hell he is on this team after this summer. 

Webster- See above

McBob- He is going to flourish with good players. He made several passes last night that would have been on SC if he were playing with our regulars.

Outlaw- I think he will be traded as well

Freeland- Like SNL in the 70's, not ready for prime time yet.

Przybilla- The quicker they trade him the better it will be. His value will only go down with more injuries.

Needs- A starting SF, time.


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## BlazerCaravan (Aug 12, 2004)

LameR said:


> After reading this, I ignored the rest of your post. You have no idea what you're talking about. He had almost a 3:1 assist:turnover ratio last year.


That's because he's get three assists, make a turnover, then get benched for three games. We never found out how many mistakes he could make in extended minutes. I'm much more worried that the TO's will stack up faster than the assists in extended minutes. It's not like he burned it up in Summer League this year, especially the two games he played with the two biggest targets on our team.


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## chairman (Jul 2, 2006)

Sambonius said:


> Ditto. The fallacy that Sergio is "turnover prone" or "out of control" or "raw" is getting pretty tiresome. The kid out did Magic, Stockton, and Nash numbers when they came into the league older. I think Sergio improved big time this summer league. The one aspect that is Sergio's weakest game is his defense which still needs a lot of improvement but he has done a good job of picking off a lot of passes and playing the passing lanes. Sergio > Jack without a doubt. Sergio is a guy who sets up others, when you stick him with guys with no experience on the offensive you won't see many results. I would like him to also be more aggressive on the offensive end. He is the reason Jack is getting traded, count on it.



Finally some logic regarding Sergio. His comment in this morning's Oregonian is what I have been saying all summer league. Sure he can cut down on some turnovers, but look who he was playing with,and how long he had played with them. Sergio will be a factor this year.


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## Crimson the Cat (Dec 30, 2002)

Spoolie Gee said:


> IMO opinions on players shouldn't change much, if at all, based on summer league. SL is rec ball and some players excel in that style while others struggle without the structure of regular season. My thoughts on our players havent changed one way or the other outside of getting to see Freeland for the first time and being impressed by his skill set.


Then why have SL?


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## Crimson the Cat (Dec 30, 2002)

majic_sean said:


> McRoberts is the one who I have been impressed by. Did anyone else see his driving behind the back pass by two Sonics tonight for an open lay-in? The youtube video of his dunks got me excited too. I wonder what the rotation will end up looking like next year. As of right now it is really hard to tell...


Saw it. Ballsy move. Gutsy passes = confidence or stupidity. I think he's confident. I like that. A ton of guys can shoot and rebound. Not as many, especially big men, can actually set up other players to score. Love this guy.



majic_sean said:


> Sergio still plays some high risk basketball but his ball control looks really good. I don't have a problem with him being the third string pointguard on this team. He is not ready to take over and is still turn over prone.I like him a lot and think his upside is way higher than any point guard on the team but I am ready to win now and I feel Blake and Jack are better prepared to do this. I hope he proves me wrong but I don't think he will be ready to start for another year or two.


I think Sergio is fine. In fact, I'd be really disappointed if he's not getting over 20 minutes a game next year. He hadn't played organized basketball for almost 3 months. It was his first SL experience. Each game he improved, and in the last game, I thought he was under control and really dictating the pace of the game (setting the example for Kopenen). 

Not to mention his recovery of his dribble while falling to the fall with Sonics around him was pretty cool!


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## hasoos (Jan 3, 2003)

Were you watching the same summer league I was? I remember one game in particular where Webster had not taken a 3 pointer through 3 quarters and had 16 points at the end of the 3rd. His agressiveness going to the rim has got better. 

As for Sergio, as the summer league went on he got more comfortable. He really needs to work on his upper body strength though. A lot of shorter guys with strength were able to create separation and get their shot against him at will. Once he gets back with players he is used to playing with more, he will perform better because he knows where they are comfortable receiving the ball and finishing.


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## Crimson the Cat (Dec 30, 2002)

GOD said:


> Freeland - I was really impressed with his play. I was following him throughout last year and I was sure that he was going to be a stinker since he couldn't get off the bench, but he moves real well for a big guy, has a decent set of post moves, defends pretty well and is energetic. In today's game, he grabbed a rebound on one play and then booked down court and was the first Blazer to make it to the other end. Once again, he is raw but would be a good D-league guy.


Right! He wants to do well and, in the end, he did better than well. I like his energy. His hands are always up. He's nearly around the ball everytime. I think the Blazers will bring him over.



majic_sean said:


> LMA - Oh Boy I love this guy. I really think he will end up being the best player from his class and that might come sooner than later. And I love his fire.


Agreed. Reminds me a bit of Rasheed Wallace mixed in with a little Tim Duncan. Chicago was foolish to trade for Tyrus Thomas, especially given the make up of their team. I'm not that excited about Rudy Gay either. Fun to watch that draft class develope.


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## Crimson the Cat (Dec 30, 2002)

hoojacks said:


> I disagree on outlaw, I think we need to keep him and let him and Jones battle it out for either the starting SF spot or the main bulk of the backup minutes after we aquire a starting SF.


The dude struggles at SF. The only time he was actually an asset was when Nate moved him to the 4, IMO. 

I'm 99% sure Pritchard is bringing in solid starting SF. James Jones would then be HIS back up. The only way Outlaw can get time is if he's at the 4. I wouldn't be opposed to keeping him, but only if we've traded Prz. Then Frye can play at the 5. McRoberts can get spot minutes at the 4 and 3. Maybe even send him to NBDL.

If Outlaw is at the 4 this year, his value could rise.


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## Tortimer (Jun 4, 2007)

mediocre man said:


> Jack- Traded period. No way in hell he is on this team after this summer.
> 
> Webster- See above
> 
> ...



I really doubt we are trading Webster, Outlaw. Joel and Jack. I just can't see us trading them all. We might trade a couple of them at most 3 but doubtful. I could really see Joel and Outlaw(or Webster/Jack) traded if we could get a SF. I think we might be keeping Jack or at least going to play like we are for as long as we can to see if someone bites on a decent trade.


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## Crimson the Cat (Dec 30, 2002)

hasoos said:


> Were you watching the same summer league I was? I remember one game in particular where Webster had not taken a 3 pointer through 3 quarters and had 16 points at the end of the 3rd. His agressiveness going to the rim has got better.


Dang it. I had been watching the Bakersfield Summer League. I thought you all were too. I guess you'll have to fill me. 

Seriously, from my perspective Webster disappears too much on offense. Guys d-up on him so tight knowing that he won't try to create off the dribble. His only choice is to pass it on. He is active on the boards though. I'll give him that. 

His personality rubs me the wrong way. In interviews and the way he communicates to players on the court. It's like he's stopped yelling at himself and is directing his anger towards his teammates (although he atleast congratulated Freeland for the monster dunk).


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## e_blazer1 (Feb 3, 2004)

I really don't think Jack or Webster will be traded this summer. I think we'll see Webster and Jack each getting minutes at back-up 2G, with Webster also pulling minutes at the 3 spot and Jack getting time at the point. Sergio will be relegated to filler minutes for one more season. Joel might get traded, but I doubt it. It looks to me like our other spots are pretty full and that having an experienced big guy to pull off the bench for those nights that Oden gets 3 fouls in 3 minutes is going to be a good thing. Freeland only gets signed if Pritchard wants to place in in the D-league. McRoberts probably gets signed, but the roster's getting pretty full. Travis is more a matter of do we re-sign him or let him walk. Trading him isn't really an option because of BYC status. My guess is we match just to keep him around and see how camp works out. If he doesn't play well enough to beat out Webster & Jones then maybe he gets traded at the deadline after his BYC status runs out.


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## mook (Dec 31, 2002)

Crimson the Cat said:


> His personality rubs me the wrong way. In interviews and the way he communicates to players on the court. It's like he's stopped yelling at himself and is directing his anger towards his teammates (although he atleast congratulated Freeland for the monster dunk).


I wonder if he learned the wrong things in practices against Kobe Bryant....

Anyway, Seattle was the only game I watched of SL, and I was pretty happy with the way Sergio looked. Durant and Green put up ridiculous numbers, and yet our guys won. Partly because the rest of that Seattle squad stunk, but I think a huge factor was Sergio. He was really keeping the ball moving while in the game. When he saw the defense loading up too much on one side of the court he'd get it to the opposite side. Didn't always lead to an assist for him, but it led to someone getting a great scoring opportunity. 

The handles he showed while digging out that ball in the open court with the dribble was amazing. If he wasn't fouled on the reach in, he would've had an easy basket. 

I realize I missed several games of him stinking, but I can only go by what I saw. Maybe it really was just a case of him getting used to his teammates. 

Funny that our most depleted roster had the most convincing win of the summer.


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## andalusian (Jun 29, 2006)

Sergio has 2 gifts - amazing handles and fantastic court vision. It will take time to develop defense and his shot - but it is worth the investment. If he becomes average in both defense and shooting - he will be a fantastic point. If he can get one of them reasonably good (shooting, I would guess would be the one) - he will be a Nash-lite.

If it were up to me - Jack and Blake will both be on the roster this year and will get most of the minutes, and Sergio could use some time in the D-League - but if we look at Sergio as a 2-3 year project - he will be fantastic.

This was a fun game to watch - as explosive as Durant looks and as smooth Green is (fantastic pick by Seattle, he is going to be their version of Brandon Roy at a forward position) - it showed just how important it was to go with Oden vs. Durant when Hamilton abused Seattle. A healthy Oden or LaMarcus would have put Portland at 20 points up and in 2 - 3 years when Oden/LaMarcus are real beasts Portland would be a very scary team for just any team in the league.


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## hasoos (Jan 3, 2003)

Crimson the Cat said:


> Dang it. I had been watching the Bakersfield Summer League. I thought you all were too. I guess you'll have to fill me.
> 
> Seriously, from my perspective Webster disappears too much on offense. Guys d-up on him so tight knowing that he won't try to create off the dribble. His only choice is to pass it on. He is active on the boards though. I'll give him that.
> 
> His personality rubs me the wrong way. In interviews and the way he communicates to players on the court. It's like he's stopped yelling at himself and is directing his anger towards his teammates (although he atleast congratulated Freeland for the monster dunk).



Yea, but I think I know where it all comes back to, and I believe a lot of people will agree with me. There is nothing worse then a shooter that doesn't hit shots, especially when the rest of their game is struggling. If Webster starts hitting a good clip on his shots, a lot of the rest will fall into place, including fan support. The fact he has been pretty relentless on his rebounding is a good start to the "rest" of the game. His shooting is up to around 45% which is a good clip above where he was shooting last year, and generally, what I consider in the range of "Good" shooting. I also noted in the Oregonian, that he dropped 15 pounds from last year. I had no idea he was up to 240. He is now 225, which is really solid. He should be learning how to post guards and forwards up carrying that type of mass around. 

Now think about this. We waited a real long time for Outlaw to develope to the "questionable" level he is today, and to be honest, he wasn't as good as Webster his first couple of years, and will never have the NBA ready body Webster has.


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

e_blazer1 said:


> I really don't think Jack or Webster will be traded this summer. I think we'll see Webster and Jack each getting minutes at back-up 2G, with Webster also pulling minutes at the 3 spot and Jack getting time at the point. Sergio will be relegated to filler minutes for one more season. Joel might get traded, but I doubt it. It looks to me like our other spots are pretty full and that having an experienced big guy to pull off the bench for those nights that Oden gets 3 fouls in 3 minutes is going to be a good thing. Freeland only gets signed if Pritchard wants to place in in the D-league. McRoberts probably gets signed, but the roster's getting pretty full. Travis is more a matter of do we re-sign him or let him walk. Trading him isn't really an option because of BYC status. My guess is we match just to keep him around and see how camp works out. If he doesn't play well enough to beat out Webster & Jones then maybe he gets traded at the deadline after his BYC status runs out.


Barring a truly great offer that Pritchard can't pass on, I doubt any big deals are going down. Joel will be showing Greg the big man tricks of the trade and obviously GO's foul rate is a concern. Jack is still cheap and a decent all around option at either guard spot... here's guessing he averages 25 MPG or so. I doubt the league is falling over themselves trying to acquire either of those guys let alone Martell or Outlaw. 

I think KP likes how the club is made up/finacially positioned for the long term. I'm guessing this season is about the developement (or lack there of) of the guys already on the club. They've a lot of youth/dust that has yet to be settled. 

STOMP


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## Bwatcher (Dec 31, 2002)

My thinking is basically similar to Stomp's. At this point, there is still much uncertainty about our players. There is no real point in rushing a trade when it is not critical to team development. After this group plays a year or two together, it will be clearer what type player(s) this team will need for a brighter future.


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## Crimson the Cat (Dec 30, 2002)

hasoos said:


> Yea, but I think I know where it all comes back to, and I believe a lot of people will agree with me. There is nothing worse then a shooter that doesn't hit shots, especially when the rest of their game is struggling. If Webster starts hitting a good clip on his shots, a lot of the rest will fall into place, including fan support. The fact he has been pretty relentless on his rebounding is a good start to the "rest" of the game. His shooting is up to around 45% which is a good clip above where he was shooting last year, and generally, what I consider in the range of "Good" shooting. I also noted in the Oregonian, that he dropped 15 pounds from last year. I had no idea he was up to 240. He is now 225, which is really solid. He should be learning how to post guards and forwards up carrying that type of mass around.
> 
> Now think about this. We waited a real long time for Outlaw to develope to the "questionable" level he is today, and to be honest, he wasn't as good as Webster his first couple of years, and will never have the NBA ready body Webster has.


Through out the SL Webster's shot was falling. 45% FG and 43% 3-pt FG if I remember right. He'll always be a fantastic long-range shooter when his feet are set and open.

Pritchard wants a more well rounded perimeter player in our rotation. All-around skills are a must. One dimensional is not. Jeff Green is EXACTLY the forward I bet he was going after in the draft. Throw in the fact that his attitude rubs people the wrong way (IMO) and he wasn't Pritchard's pick, he's as good as gone.


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## hasoos (Jan 3, 2003)

Crimson the Cat said:


> Through out the SL Webster's shot was falling. 45% FG and 43% 3-pt FG if I remember right. He'll always be a fantastic long-range shooter when his feet are set and open.
> 
> Pritchard wants a more well rounded perimeter player in our rotation. All-around skills are a must. One dimensional is not. Jeff Green is EXACTLY the forward I bet he was going after in the draft. Throw in the fact that his attitude rubs people the wrong way (IMO) and he wasn't Pritchard's pick, he's as good as gone.


That last part seems to be the interesting bit doesn't it? The only 3 non Pritchard generation players left are Martell, Outlaw and Miles.


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## blue32 (Jan 13, 2006)

If you read KP's quote, he says Martell isn't going anywhere.

peace.


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## Crimson the Cat (Dec 30, 2002)

Yep. He has really cleaned house. Pritchard wants proven winners. Turkoglu makes some sense I suppose as a target.


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## Bob Whitsitt (Jul 12, 2007)

Martell is still really young and his smooth stroke and the fact he's actually working hard now make me want to wait on him. His rookie year he was seriously my favorite player in the NBA. I love big SF/SG guys with perfect strokes, and he's the guy. I just pray he pulls it together.

Outlaw won't leave, he's still got intense potential and no one seems to acknowledge that this is the eve of his breakout season.

I'm growing impatient with Sergio for some reason, but he's young and has bigtime potential.


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## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

hasoos said:


> That last part seems to be the interesting bit doesn't it? The only 3 non Pritchard generation players left are Martell, Outlaw and Miles.


If Martell Webster is a Nash era player, then so is Jarrett Jack.


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## Rip City Reign (Jul 1, 2007)

Crimson the Cat said:


> Summer league is over. Didn't it seem shorter than year's past? I'm a little bummed, but can't wait for the RMR to start next weekend.
> 
> *Jarrett Jack*
> 
> ...


Sergio may be the future, but he STRUGGLED in SL and needs time to mature and may be due for the NBDL to work on his defense and his turnovers. His lack of development is THE REASON Blake was signed.

Blake and Jack will battle it out for the starting job this season. Sergio is 3 years away at present.

Martell is not going anywhere. He is starting to turn it around and is only 20. Considering the time they gave to Outlaw to develop, there is NO WAY that Martell is traded unless we get a top tier PG or SF in return. Martell should have gone to UW, graduated from Romar's school of guards and developed his complete game.

Joel should be traded for Hedo. A great fit for both teams.


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## majic_sean (Dec 22, 2004)

Martell's shot is too good to give up on right now. Besides the fact that KP said he wasn't going to be traded I still would be very surprised to see him moved. I would rather see that fire to win and arrogance than the opposite side of the spectrum were Outlaw sits unaffected by much emotionally.

He hustles on offense and defense and when he is hot he can get multiple points in very limited minutes. We need a sparkplug offenseively like Martell. Even if it takes him a few more years to develope other parts of his game more he is definetly worth the wait and not bad in the meantime. 

The only people I see as expendable are Joel and Darius. I don't see Darius moving anytime soon so with the exception of Pryz I'd say hello to next years team.


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## Crimson the Cat (Dec 30, 2002)

blue32 said:


> If you read KP's quote, he says Martell isn't going anywhere.
> 
> peace.


If he was wanting to move Martell, would he really say anything different? 

If he let's slip that a player is not valuable to Portland, then KP can't get back as much value.

Everyone of Portland's players are untradeable.


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## majic_sean (Dec 22, 2004)

Crimson the Cat said:


> Everyone of Portland's players are untradeable.


Good point:clap:


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## Samuel (Jan 1, 2003)

Rip City Reign said:


> Sergio may be the future, but he STRUGGLED in SL and needs time to mature and may be due for the NBDL to work on his defense and his turnovers. His lack of development is THE REASON Blake was signed.


First of all, summer league (performance-wise) means more to you than it does to the coaching staff, it would seem.

Second, the latter statement you made is complete hogwash. Sure Sergio has had some growing pains, but that's to be expected for a European point that plays like he does and at his age. No one was even expecting him to come over to the US until this year anyway. That he came over and did as well as he did last season was a pleasant surprise. He's farther along in his progress than any of us could have hoped. 



> Blake and Jack will battle it out for the starting job this season.


Unless Jack is traded, and the odds of that happening are much higher than remote.



> Sergio is 3 years away at present.


What?



> Martell is not going anywhere. He is starting to turn it around and is only 20. Considering the time they gave to Outlaw to develop, there is NO WAY that Martell is traded unless we get a top tier PG or SF in return.


You make it seem like Martell is somewhat untouchable.


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## Crimson the Cat (Dec 30, 2002)

Generally outside shots can be improved on with practice. Ball handling not so much. I realize he's only 20, but he's a 20-year old with three Summer Leagues, two training camps, two years of practices and regular season games, under his belt. At this point I would expect him to not just be a role player, but to more dominate the ball and create offensively, especially with Aldridge not playing. Maybe that's just not the player he is, but unfortunately, it's the player we need. Otherwise, defense will just play him tight.


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## Crimson the Cat (Dec 30, 2002)

And it's not like if we don't trade him, I'll be bummed. I'm just saying that eventually Pritchard would want to replace him for a more capable 2/3.


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## barfo (Jan 2, 2003)

Fork said:


> If Martell Webster is a Nash era player, then so is Jarrett Jack.


And Joel.

barfo


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## It's_GO_Time (Oct 13, 2005)

blue32 said:


> If you read KP's quote, he says Martell isn't going anywhere.
> 
> peace.



So that means he will be traded to NJ for Jason Collins. :biggrin:


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## ProudBFan (Apr 29, 2003)

Simple (and probably silly) questions:

1. Is Outlaw currently a Restricted Free Agent?

2. (Assuming the answer to #1, above, is "Yes") If the Blazers were planning to sign-and-trade Outlaw and someone were to submit a qualifying offer for him, would it force the Blazers' hand on the sign-and-trade deal?

Just trying to figure how Outlaw might fit onto the block (apparently with Jack, Przybilla, and Webster as of right now).

Also...

3. Ime is currently an Unrestricted Free Agent, right?

If the answer to this one is "Yes", then Ime no longer has any trade value whatsoever for the Blazers (if they sign him, they have to keep him - no sign-and-trade possible for UFAs).

Advance thanks,

PBF


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## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

ProudBFan said:


> Simple (and probably silly) questions:
> 
> 1. Is Outlaw currently a Restricted Free Agent?
> 
> ...





Yes to both. I think there is a reason KP has gone out of his way this entire summer to let teams know that will match any offer to Travis. My guess is that he wants to scare off potential suitors.


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## Kmurph (May 7, 2003)

> If he was wanting to move Martell, would he really say anything different?


If asked that question? No

Most likely though, he just wouldn't say anything at all....


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## ProudBFan (Apr 29, 2003)

mediocre man said:


> Yes to both.


That's what I thought, but needed some confirmation on it. Thanks, MM.



> I think there is a reason KP has gone out of his way this entire summer to let teams know that will match any offer to Travis. My guess is that he wants to scare off potential suitors.


So, do you see the Blazers' dragging their feet on re-signing Outlaw as an indicator of their intent to A) keep him or B) sign-and-trade him? IMO, all it really does is keep their options open longer (until someone submits a qualifying offer).

To me, the Blazers' trade block looks like this:

Jarrett Jack
Joel Przybilla
Martell Webster
Travis Outlaw

That is assuming, of course, that no one in their right mind would be interested in taking Raef's contract off our hands at this point in time. Am I missing anyone there?

Also it looks like the key events for us Blazers fans to keep an eye open for as predecessors to a trade would be:

1. Joel's BYC status going away (when is that again?), and/or...
2. Someone submitting a qualifying offer for Travis.

Looks to me a "big" trade becomes most likely as soon as Joel loses his BYC status - assuming Joel loses his BYC status before someone submits a qualifying offer for Outlaw. If the timeline gets reversed - if someone submits a qualifying offer for Outlaw before Joel loses his BYC status - the probability of a "big" trade shrinks and the probability that the Blazers simply match and keep Outlaw increases, IMO.

PBF


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## Crimson the Cat (Dec 30, 2002)

PBF - I think Joel's BYC status is over now. (30JUN)


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## ProudBFan (Apr 29, 2003)

Crimson the Cat said:


> PBF - I think Joel's BYC status is over now. (30JUN)


And no qualifying offers for Outlaw yet (that I've heard).

So... assuming some big trade has been / is in the works, what exactly is preventing it from happening at this point in time? Are there any other CBA-related dates/events that would make any of the players we have under contract right now - OR our Restricted Free Agents - any more or less attractive as trade pieces?

Looks to me like the writing is on the wall for a multi-player trade. Just trying to understand why it hasn't happened yet (or when it might).

PBF


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## HOWIE (Dec 30, 2002)

ProudBFan said:


> And no qualifying offers for Outlaw yet (that I've heard).
> 
> So... assuming some big trade has been / is in the works, what exactly is preventing it from happening at this point in time? Are there any other CBA-related dates/events that would make any of the players we have under contract right now - OR our Restricted Free Agents - any more or less attractive as trade pieces?
> 
> ...


I think that our trade pieces are very attractive and I find it funny that Outlaw hasn't been offered an offer yet, my hunch is that his salary is going to be part of a sign&trade deal coming down the pike. While Travis is athletic enough, I don't feel he has the IQ to play the style of basketball Portland is putting together. I'd look to see Travis moved.


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## Samuel (Jan 1, 2003)

If the trade involves draftees, they cannot be moved until 30 days after the draft. And if they've signed, they count against the cap, not as $0 'rights held' players.

I'm wondering if Rudy Fernandez and Petteri Koponen, since they were technically traded to Portland, cannot be packaged along with other players...


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## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

What if those draftees aren't signed yet?


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## Samuel (Jan 1, 2003)

mediocre man said:


> What if those draftees aren't signed yet?


I don't think there's a trade restriction in that case.


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## Samuel (Jan 1, 2003)

For instance, if we wanted to do Green + Przybilla for Turkoglu, we'd have to wait until on or around the 29th or 30th or 31st of July.


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## Samuel (Jan 1, 2003)

Ah, I correct myself: The trade restriction lasts until 30 days after *the date of the signing.* Anyone know the official date of the Green/McRoberts signings?


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## fer (Dec 6, 2006)

I only want to remark sergio had 3.3 as/to before his injury, so I'm expecting at least those numbers this year with more playing time, despite of his irregular SL.


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## ProudBFan (Apr 29, 2003)

Samuel said:


> Ah, I correct myself: The trade restriction lasts until 30 days after *the date of the signing.* Anyone know the official date of the Green/McRoberts signings?


And what about Koponen & Fernandez? I have to admit I don't understand if/how they might play into the trade picture. RealGM.com shows that - as of right now - McRoberts, Koponen, Fernandez, and Green are all still unsigned (but that might just be because RealGM.com hasn't updated their info yet).

OK, so...

1. It seems Joel's BYC status is gone (according to RealGM.com), but he does have a trade kicker of some kind. Anyone have any info on that?

2. No qualifying offers have been submitted for Outlaw (that we've heard about).

3. Draftees can't be traded until 30 days after they sign. The guys we drafted were Oden (and yes, I feel silly listing him here), Fernandez, Koponen, Green, and McRoberts. Of those, which have signed, and when did they sign? (And is that 30 calendar days or 30 _business_ days???)

PBF


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## Samuel (Jan 1, 2003)

McRoberts signed a 2 year deal guaranteed, per his mother (not sure if there's an option on that second year).

Green signed a 1 year deal guaranteed.

Oden signed a 5 year deal.

Koponen and Fernandez we hold the rights to but have yet to sign (same with Freeland).

I'm not sure of the date of that signing, however.

http://www.hoopshype.com/salaries/portland.htm


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## ProudBFan (Apr 29, 2003)

Samuel said:


> McRoberts signed a 2 year deal guaranteed, per his mother (not sure if there's an option on that second year).
> 
> Green signed a 1 year deal guaranteed.
> 
> ...


Thanks, Sam. From the press releases I was able to find on Blazers.com, it does indeed look like both Koponen and Fernandez are still unsigned. As such, is there any restriction on us trading their NBA rights?

The NBA.com Transactions page shows the Blazers signing McRoberts and Green (and Oden, and Koponen's Summer League Waiver) on Monday, July 2nd. If McRoberts and/or Green were to be involved in a trade it wouldn't be able to happen until Wednesday, August 1st - if 30 days means 30 _calendar_ days - Tuesday, August 14th if 30 days means 30 _business_ days.

PBF


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## Samuel (Jan 1, 2003)

We reached deals on Green, Oden and McRoberts on July 3rd. So 30 days after that point is when we can trade them.

I'm not sure about us trading draftee rights, as Rudy and Petteri were traded to us and might fall under that 'cannot package' designation.


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## ProudBFan (Apr 29, 2003)

Still would be helpful to know:

1. Whether the 30 day restriction on trading McRoberts and/or Green is 30 days from the day of signing or the day of the signings being made official.
2. Whether the 30 day restriction on trading McRoberts and/or Green is 30 calendar days or 30 business days.
3. Whether or not there is any kind of restriction on trading Fernandez or Koponen, neither of which have signed with us yet.
4. Details of Przybilla's trade kicker.

PBF


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## Samuel (Jan 1, 2003)

ProudBFan said:


> Still would be helpful to know:
> 
> 1. Whether the 30 day restriction on trading McRoberts and/or Green is 30 days from the day of signing or the day of the signings being made official.


It probably happened the day before. McRoberts' mom commented on her son's signing in time for the pressing of the July 3rd paper. 



> 2. Whether the 30 day restriction on trading McRoberts and/or Green is 30 calendar days or 30 business days.


My guess is 30 calendar days, although it shouldn't really matter with regard to the announcement. KP could announce the deal in principle tomorrow and it might not officially go through until August 2nd or so.



> 3. Whether or not there is any kind of restriction on trading Fernandez or Koponen, neither of which have signed with us yet.


I think we can trade their rights whenever we want. I doubt there's a package specification with non-signees.




> 4. Details of Przybilla's trade kicker.


Where did you read about a trade kicker?

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#83


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## ProudBFan (Apr 29, 2003)

Samuel said:


> Where did you read about a trade kicker?
> 
> http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#83


RealGM.com

PBF


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## BenDavis503 (Apr 11, 2007)

Go Joel Freeland!!! I love that guy! Where can I get a new jersey of his?


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## Utherhimo (Feb 20, 2005)

Mancinelli did very good too


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## craigehlo (Feb 24, 2005)

BenDavis503 said:


> Go Joel Freeland!!! I love that guy! Where can I get a new jersey of his?


Freeland made two bad plays for each good thing he did on the court. Mancinelli was more of of a 1-to-1 ratio of good to bad. Considering the talent level in the Summer League, you need to much better than that to make an NBA roster.

While I like that we pulled out a couple wins this weekend, I thought McRoberts was the really nice surprise of the Summer League. He's crazy athletic and shows a knack for passing that can't be taught easily to a big man. He could be this year's "David Lee" of the draft.


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