# Will Kobe Bryant be this generation's Clyde Drexler?



## ChrisRichards (Jul 17, 2007)

Kobe - Drexler comparison is fair

- both won NBA Championship as side-kicks to All-Time Greatest Centers

- both failed in the Finals as #1 options

- both talented scorers and high flying dunkers in their prime

- both won Gold at the olympics

- Clyde was selected with the 14th pick in the draft, Kobe with the 13th pick

- neither player made the All-NBA Rookie first team

- both were forced to play low minutes and come off the bench during their rookie year

- Drexler averaged 7.7 points per game in his rookie year, Bryant averaged 7.6 ppg

- Both players doubled their PPG in 2nd year, Drexler to 17.2 ppg, Bryant to 15.4 ppg

- Through 13 seasons, Drexler has a career 21ppg, Bryant has 25ppg but Bryant averages 3 more shot attempts per game

------------------------------------
In Drexler's best PPG season 1988-1989, he averaged 21.4 Field Goal Attempts and shot 49% FG% for a 27.2 PPG.

In Kobe's best PPG season 05-06, he averaged 27.2 Field Goal Attempts and shot 45% FG% for a 35.4 PPG.

This means that Kobe took -6- more shots per game which led to a 8 ppg difference between Kobe and Drexler.

If Drexler took 6 more shots per game in 88-89, using his 49% FG% he would have made 3 of those 6 shots, which means 33 PPG.

Drexler's 33.2 PPG to 35.4 PPG for Kobe

------------------------

In the playoffs, during Drexler and Kobe's best PPG seasons, they both averaged 27 ppg.

Drexler went from a 27.2 PPG from regular season to a playoff 27.7 PPG, an increase

Kobe went from a 35.4 PPG to a playoff 27.9, a dip of about 7 points per game.


--------------------------------

Through 13 seasons, Bryant has a lower career FG% than Drexler does and averages 3 more FGA per game than Drexler did, yet the career PPG differential is only about 4 pts.

Drexler also has a higher assist average than Kobe does.

They are very similar on the offensive end.

On the defensive end, Drexler averaged more steals than Kobe does, Drexler grabbed more rebounds than Kobe did and they are even in the block per game department.

Drexler averaged less turnovers than Kobe does.

Drexler was regarded as one of the best players in the league for a while, and the 2nd best SG behind the GOAT Michael Jordan.

Drexler played in an era of Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson, Magic Bird, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, etc... all of those players are better than both Drexler and Kobe Bryant. So the fact that Drexler was never regarded as the league's best player is irrelevant because neither of them would have been regarded as better during Drexler's era.



They are very similar players in skill and career.


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## BadBaronRudigor (Jul 27, 2006)

But . . . . Drexler played at the same time as Jordan and was never seen as the best player at his position much less as the best in the league while Kobe has at least been in the debate for best in the league (I think it went Shaq, then Duncan, then Garnett, then LeBron personally but Kobe was certainly a candidate). That's a significant difference in Kobe's favor though you make some very good points.


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## lakeshows (Mar 17, 2009)

Did Drexler win an MVP?

Kobe's ahead of him right now, but if he doesn't win one on his own the comparisons will be even closer.


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## Nightmute (Apr 12, 2007)

Kobe is far better then Drexler was.


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

Not even close and Drexler has literally said so. :laugh:


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## michelangelo (Apr 29, 2009)

No way, Kobe has three rings, and a superior all around skillset: Kobe is by far the better passer, dribbler, jump shooter, and defender. Drexler was arguably the flashier dunker and had a better vertical. And very few players can match Kobe's work ethic and desire to improve. 

But he's still no Michael. :grinning:


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## Game3525 (Aug 14, 2008)

Kobe is already better then Clyde.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

Not even a remotley close discussion, why would you even make this thread?


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

Seriously CR - you've stooped to this?


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## Nightmute (Apr 12, 2007)

Basel said:


> Seriously CR - you've stooped to this?


That's what I'm sayin'.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

If Kobe doesn't win the 'ship this year it's going to be a whole summer filled with Reggie Miller VS Kobe Bryant threads.


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## lakeshows (Mar 17, 2009)

VanillaPrice said:


> If Kobe doesn't win the 'ship this year it's going to be a whole summer filled with Reggie Miller VS Kobe Bryant threads.


:wtf:

If Kobe never ends up with a title on his own, I do think he might be lumped into a category with Drexler, but that's about it. He'd still be ahead of him based on his MVP('s), and other accolades like all defense teams.

Reggie is nowhere near anybody in the top 50 all time list. Drexler was a top 50 player and he was a dominant scorer much like Kobe.

Obviously, also if Kobe wins a title this year (or more later) he's way ahead of Drexler, and more closer to top 10.


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## Tragedy (Dec 9, 2002)

VanillaPrice said:


> If Kobe doesn't win the 'ship this year it's going to be a whole summer filled with Reggie Miller VS Kobe Bryant threads.


Which would only show us how far this place has sunk.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

lakeshows said:


> :wtf:
> 
> If Kobe never ends up with a title on his own, I do think he might be lumped into a category with Drexler, but that's about it. He'd still be ahead of him based on his MVP('s), and other accolades like all defense teams.
> 
> ...


How did you not get that I was joking?

Kobe's obviously leaps and bounds ahead of Drexler.(Who's still a top five shooting guard) 

Kobe's pretty much a lock for top twenty all time, which is signifigantly higher then where Drexler is placed.

Kobe was a FAR more dominant scorer.

He's already way ahead of Drexler, but I agree, he'll move quite a bit closer to the top ten with a 'ship and a Finals MVP this year.


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## Eternal (Sep 7, 2005)

This is a terrible thread...


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## Jakain (Sep 8, 2006)

No, he's not "this generation's Clyde Drexler". He is his own legacy (although I'd argue good old Clyde doesn't really have one...at least not in the leagues of elite company like Kobe) separate from anyone else including the one he gets praise and emulates - Michael Jordan. Kobe's Kobe.


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## ChrisRichards (Jul 17, 2007)

VanillaPrice said:


> Kobe was a FAR more dominant scorer.


says who? The difference is smaller than you think.

In Drexler's best PPG season 1988-1989, he averaged 21.4 Field Goal Attempts and shot 49% FG% for a 27.2 PPG.

In Kobe's best PPG season 05-06, he averaged *27.2 Field Goal Attempts* and shot 45% FG% for a 35.4 PPG.

*This means that Kobe took -6- more shots per game* which led to a 8 ppg difference between Kobe and Drexler.

If Drexler took 6 more shots per game in 88-89, using his 49% FG% he would have made 3 of those 6 shots, which means 33 PPG.

Drexler's 33.2 PPG to 35.4 PPG for Kobe

Barely a difference.

--------------------------------

Through 13 seasons, Bryant has a lower career FG% than Drexler does and averages 3 more FGA per game than Drexler did, yet the career PPG differential is only about 4 pts.

Drexler also has a higher assist average than Kobe does.

They are very similar on the offensive end.

On the defensive end, Drexler averaged more steals than Kobe does, Drexler grabbed more rebounds than Kobe did and they are even in the block per game department.

Drexler averaged less turnovers than Kobe does.

Drexler was regarded as one of the best players in the league for a while, and the 2nd best SG behind the GOAT Michael Jordan.

Drexler played in an era of Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson, Magic Bird, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, etc... all of those players are better than both Drexler and Kobe Bryant. So the fact that Drexler was never regarded as the league's best player is irrelevant because neither of them would have been regarded as better during Drexler's era. Kobe Bryant's reign as NBA's best player was only a window of about 2 years, which was taken away by LeBron James.


The similarities are STRIKING.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

ChrisRichards said:


> says who? The difference is smaller than you think.
> 
> Through 13 seasons, Bryant has a lower career FG% than Drexler does and averages 3 more FGA per game than Drexler did, yet the career PPG differential is only about 4 pts.
> 
> ...


Looking at their highest scoring seasons, I see that Kobe averages over eight more points per game then Drexler, that doesn't sound very close to me. Drexler never scored over 30 for a season, Kobe's done it three times. Drexler's never won a scoring title, Kobe's won two. Kobe's career high is 81, Drexler never reached 60. Kobe averages four more points a game (And rising) then Drexler. Scoring isn't close.


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## ChrisRichards (Jul 17, 2007)

In the playoffs, during Drexler and Kobe's best PPG seasons, they both averaged 27 ppg.

Drexler went from a 27.2 PPG from regular season to a playoff 27.7 PPG, an increase

Kobe went from a 35.4 PPG to a playoff 27.9, a dip of about 7 points per game.


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## ChrisRichards (Jul 17, 2007)

VanillaPrice said:


> Looking at their highest scoring seasons, I see that Kobe averages over eight more points per game then Drexler, that doesn't sound very close to me. Drexler never scored over 30 for a season, Kobe's done it three times. Drexler's never won a scoring title, Kobe's won two. Kobe's career high is 81, Drexler never reached 60. Kobe averages four more points a game (And rising) then Drexler. Scoring isn't close.


In Drexler's best PPG season 1988-1989, he averaged 21.4 Field Goal Attempts and shot 49% FG% for a 27.2 PPG.

In Kobe's best PPG season 05-06, he averaged 27.2 Field Goal Attempts and shot 45% FG% for a 35.4 PPG.

This means that Kobe took -6- more shots per game which led to a 8 ppg difference between Kobe and Drexler.

If Drexler took 6 more shots per game in 88-89, using his 49% FG% he would have made 3 of those 6 shots, which means 33 PPG.

Drexler's 33.2 PPG to 35.4 PPG for Kobe

Barely a difference.

Clyde the Glide averaged at least a 50% FG% in 3 different seasons, whereas Kobe's highest FG% in his career is 46%.


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## BadBaronRudigor (Jul 27, 2006)

fg% isn't the best number to look at in terms of scoring efficiency, especially when one of the players takes a lot of 3 pointers. Look at TSP and the gap closes up. Kobe is the better scorer.


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

BadBaronRudigor said:


> fg% isn't the best number to look at in terms of scoring efficiency, especially when one of the players takes a lot of 3 pointers. Look at TSP and the gap closes up. Kobe is the better scorer.


Yeah, besides, Bryant has had 4 postseasons and 6 regular seasons, including this one, that were better statistically than Drexler's entire career (see here and here). Bryant's best 7 year stretch of accolades includes six All NBA 1st Teams, an All NBA 3rd team (when he was injured), six All Defensive First Teams, and one All Defensive 2nd team plus seven top 5 MVP finishes including an MVP. Drexler has no MVPs, two top 5 finishes, and his entire career only had one All NBA 1st team selection. And that's just Bryant's best 7 year stretch, if you include his whole career and it isn't even close.


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## afobisme (Apr 29, 2006)

stop looking at stats. kobe has a better all around game.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

7 1st team all-nbas and 2 2nd teams vs 1 1st team and 2 2nd teams, 7 top 5 mvp's vs 2, 1 mvp vs none, 3 titles vs 1, 9 all-defense teams vs 0. arguably the best player in the league for an extended period vs never. they're virtually the same player.


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## ChrisRichards (Jul 17, 2007)

kflo said:


> 7 1st team all-nbas and 2 2nd teams vs 1 1st team and 2 2nd teams, 7 top 5 mvp's vs 2, 1 mvp vs none, 3 titles vs 1, 9 all-defense teams vs 0. arguably the best player in the league for an extended period vs never. they're virtually the same player.


Kobe Bryant would not have made the All-NBA first teams either if he played in Drexler's era

You know who was ALL-NBA FIRST TEAM from 1983 to 1991? Magic Johnson, PG

You know who was ALL-NBA FIRST TEAM from 1987-1993 and 96-98? Michael Jordan, SG

Neither Kobe nor Drexler are better than 

G- Magic Johnson
G- Michael Jordan

so Kobe would not have made that many All-NBA first teams. He'd be in the same boat as Clyde Drexler, with maybe only one, Kobe's 05-06 season MAYBE.

Kobe's defense was also not better than MJ's, as MJ took All-NBA Defensive first team from 1988 onwards.

So take no stock into that NBA first all teams because Kobe wouldn't have done it either.

Clyde and Kobe are quite similar.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

ChrisRichards said:


> Kobe Bryant would not have made the All-NBA first teams either if he played in Drexler's era
> 
> You know who was ALL-NBA FIRST TEAM from 1983 to 1991? Magic Johnson, PG
> 
> ...


1 - magic retired in '91. he didn't keep drexler off any all-nba teams after '91.

2 - i put first and 2nd team. kobe has 9 combined. 11 including 3rd team. drexler has 3 1st or 2nd teams and 5 including 3rd teams.  there's simply an enormous difference. 

3 - all-defense i also included 1st and 2nd team. and jordan only took 1 of 4 spots each year. drexler got none, ever. 

so please, try a little harder.


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## Tersk (Apr 9, 2004)

_attack the argument and not the poster, please. - KJ_


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## Jakain (Sep 8, 2006)

Dwyane Wade seems like a better Clyde Drexler candidate. Hmm or even Carmelo Anthony.


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## lakeshows (Mar 17, 2009)

Jakain said:


> Dwyane Wade seems like a better Clyde Drexler candidate. Hmm or even Carmelo Anthony.


Dwayne Wade is a level ahead of Kobe. He put up one of the best Finals performances ever. He has his own ring. He also outplayed Kobe this year. Carmelo maybe, but he plays a different position.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

lakeshows said:


> Dwayne Wade is a level ahead of Kobe. He put up one of the best Finals performances ever. He has his own ring. He also outplayed Kobe this year. Carmelo maybe, but he plays a different position.


6 games against a tailor made opponent does not define a career. 

he has a way to go to pass kobe. one could argue he's on pace, but he's clearly not there yet.


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## lakeshows (Mar 17, 2009)

kflo said:


> 6 games against a tailor made opponent does not define a career.
> 
> he has a way to go to pass kobe. one could argue he's on pace, but he's clearly not there yet.


In terms of career not yet, but in terms of who I'd take today it would be Dwade. Dwade just needs to continue for 7-8 (injury-free) years and he'd pass Kobe.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

lakeshows said:


> Dwayne Wade is a level ahead of Kobe. He put up one of the best Finals performances ever. He has his own ring. He also outplayed Kobe this year. Carmelo maybe, but he plays a different position.


No he's not. He may eventually be, but to say that he already is, is just showing your personal hate towards Kobe.


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## ChrisRichards (Jul 17, 2007)

VanillaPrice said:


> No he's not. He may eventually be, but to say that he already is, is just showing your personal hate towards Kobe.


It's arguable depending on what your critera is and what you value most.


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## ChrisRichards (Jul 17, 2007)

kflo said:


> 6 games against a tailor made opponent does not define a career.


All I hear is excuses.

"Wade got a tailor made opponent!!"

Let's ignore the fact Wade shot something like 60+% in the ECF vs the Pistons the prior series. The same Pistons that humiliated Kobe Bryant in the 04 Finals 2 years prior and bounced him in 5 games with a horrible shooting percentage.


"Kobe was unfortunate!! He faced D's that were too good!!"

Laugh out loud. Great players don't have that excuse. They find a way to win. 

Kobe and Clyde are strikingly similar, with a slight edge to Kobe Bryant due to an MVP and such.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

ChrisRichards said:


> It's arguable depending on what your critera is and what you value most.


Not really, Kobe's made the All NBA first team five more times than Wade, mutiple more defensive teams, far more All-Star teams, has three rings to Wade's one (Although Wade's was the most impressive) has been to the finals four more times, and has won an MVP. (Should have two, and possibly three) 

I'm not denouncing the possibility, but at this point Wade simply just hasn't played enough basketball. That could very well change in the future though.

Oh, and you copying and pasting my post is just adorable, thank you.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

ChrisRichards said:


> All I hear is excuses.
> 
> "Wade got a tailor made opponent!!"
> 
> ...


You've just made it abundantly clear that you never watched the 2004 Pistons, they were so far and away better then the '06 version it's not even funny. (And the '05 version for that matter)

And no they're not, Wade and Drexler aren't similar either. Jordan/West/Kobe/Wade are all locks for the top four right now, in that order. Now, if Kobe wins the 'ship this year with a Finals MVP, then he's the new number two. But if he doesn't and just declines like a normal player while Wade enjoys more sucsess, then he will pass Kobe. It's not a difficult concept to understand.


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## Piolo_Pascual (Sep 13, 2006)

> - both won NBA Championship as side-kicks to All-Time Greatest Centers


Drexler never became Houston's best perimeter defender, facilitator and often times its clutch player. Clyde rode Olajuwon's brilliance and Houston's tremendous chemistry.



Its not a close comparison IMO. Kobe was just huge in pivotal games against the Spurs, Kings and Blazers during the three-peat run, unmistakably the best teams in those years. Clyde did'nt had a story book performance in that one year in Houston. Hakeem was the point man for Houston right off the bat. You can't say the same for the Lakers. It was an inside-out tempo attack. A Shaq-Kobe duo from the get go.




Also, Drexler never won an MVP and was never considered as the consensus "Best Player in the League", a position Kobe held firmly for 2-3 years (depending on one's view). Drexler was known as "that second best shooting guard after Jordan" in the 90's.



A testament to Kobe's value is not too hard to find. Just look at his playoff stats against the best teams in the West. There is no room for debate that Kobe is as important as Shaq. I can't say the same for Clyde, since Houston won a championship without him. However I will say that in the Finals, Shaq was the unquestionable big dog, but people should not use that to deflate Kobe's value.


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## DNKO (Dec 23, 2008)

This was a pretty scary comparison, pretty much identical.

However, this thread was doomed from the beginning because, well, we all know that saying Clyde is better than Kobe is blasphemy

Although no one can actually tell WHY.

It just....it's like that! 

Yeah, comparing Kobe to Clyde is an insult to Kobe, Kobe is only to be compared with Jordan, Obama and maybe God?

Other than that, you're talking frivolous.

Despite the fact that you provided the comparison which shows how damn near identical their careers have been.


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## Piolo_Pascual (Sep 13, 2006)

Kobe's career is too unique for comparison. He's not a second option talent but at the same time he has'nt proven he can win as the first either.


Its still an open book for Kobe's legacy and comparing him to Drexler is incredibly stupid.


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

lakeshows said:


> In terms of career not yet, but in terms of who I'd take today it would be Dwade. Dwade just needs to continue for 7-8 (injury-free) years and he'd pass Kobe.


Wade can't stay healthy so it's kind of irrelevant. Even this year he didn't play the full 82 and was injured in the postseason with back problems.


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## Game3525 (Aug 14, 2008)

It is far too early to tell if Wade even cracks the top ten of best 2-guards. The guy is already 27 and takes more abuse then any guard in the league. Who knows if this guy last till he is 30!


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## lakeshows (Mar 17, 2009)

OMGBaselRocks! said:


> Kobe's career is too unique for comparison. He's not a second option talent but at the same time he has'nt proven he can win as the first either.
> 
> 
> Its still an open book for Kobe's legacy and comparing him to Drexler is incredibly stupid.


It's not "incredibly stupid". They were/are both incredibly gifted shooting guards. They were both considered near the top of their position.

If you look at their career per 36 min numbers it's ridiculousy close.

Kobe Bryant: FGA:18.9 FG%:.455 REB:5.2 AST:4.6 STL:1.5 BLK:0.6 TO:2.9 PTS:24.8
Clyde Drexlr: FGA:16.3 FG%:.472 REB:6.1 AST:5.6 STL:2.0 BLK:0.7 TO:2.7 PTS:20.4

Basically Clyde was a better rebounder, passed the ball more, and despite the defensive deficiency claims he averaged more steals and blocks, less turnovers, and had a better FG%. Kobe scored 4 more points per game, but he took 2.5 more shots to do it.

Basically this shows that they are almost identical, and that's without Clyde ever being on a horrible team so he was never asked to go out and try and score 100 pts.

Also this includes Clydes whole career. If Kobe starts declining his stats might take a hit.

NOW tell me that this comparison is horrible.


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## DNKO (Dec 23, 2008)

OMGBaselRocks! said:


> Kobe's career is too unique for comparison. He's not a second option talent but at the same time he has'nt proven he can win as the first either.
> 
> 
> Its still an open book for Kobe's legacy and comparing him to Drexler is incredibly stupid.



No it's *not* incredibly stupid, but what IS incredibly stupid is to disrespect Clyde as if he was some lucky bum that got to play with Hakeem while MJ was on vacation so he got his ring.

Clyde was a *GREAT* player, and I seriously have a big problem with you biased people today, totally depreciating players like Clyde.

It's sickening to see these "next Jordan, better than Jordan, next Magic, better than Magic" talks on these forsaken internets nowadays.

So, those players are the only ones we can use for comparisons? In other words, Kobe jumped over EVERYONE but MJ, and now we have to wait for that magic moment to happen, for him to "become better" than Mike?

Or James? How is he compared to MJ, is he better than Pippen, or Bird, or Big O, how so? By what standards?


Ohhhhh...I know what standards. The standards "I only watch the NBA of today and I actually don't care about the past of the league because I'm too superficial to learn about the game I so allegedly "love", but that won't keep me from sharing my opinion and ranking other players, based on some YouTube videos I've glanced at quickly and daily visit to Basketball Reference.com"

So you get compared to a NBA champ, 10 time All-Star, original Dream Team member, and that's almost like an insult to Kobe?

That's sickening.


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

lakeshows said:


> It's not "incredibly stupid". They were/are both incredibly gifted shooting guards. They were both considered near the top of their position.
> 
> If you look at their career per 36 min numbers it's ridiculousy close.
> 
> ...


The argument is stupid, even Clyde Drexler has literally said Bryant is hands down better. Bryant has already had 6 superior regular seasons and 4 superior postseasons statistically (PERs of 24.2, 24.3, 24.5, 26.1, 26.2, 28.1 in the regular season and 24.2 25.0, 25.0, and 25.2 in the postseason, numbers Drexler never had and several of them he never sniffed). Bringing up their per36 is irrelevant, that includes Clyde's declining years and Bryant's teenage years. Look at their primes, roughly 7-10 year stretches. It isn't even close in the accolades department and Clyde still gets abused in the statistical department (based on PER, TS%, whatever reasonable metric you use). Steals or blocks mean jack otherwise you could use them to claim Drexler was a better defender than a 25 and 26 year Jordan simply because Drexer once had a superior 2.7spg/0.7bpg season to Jordan's 1989 and 1990 totals of 2.6spg/0.7bpg and 2.6spg/0.6bpg. Makes no sense, Jordan was so far superior to Drexler as a defender it just isn't debatable. 

The argument is stupid if you're a non-retard (but I do not believe you are retarded).


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

DNKO said:


> No it's *not* incredibly stupid, but what IS incredibly stupid is to disrespect Clyde as if he was some lucky bum that got to play with Hakeem while MJ was on vacation so he got his ring.
> 
> Clyde was a *GREAT* player, and I seriously have a big problem with you biased people today, totally depreciating players like Clyde.
> 
> ...


It's not close based on stats or accolades. "Insulting" is mean perhaps, because Clyde obviously isn't Reggie Miller or something. But it really isn't close, it's why the OP wimped out of this debate like he does all the other ones he gets engaged in.


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## Nightmute (Apr 12, 2007)

DNKO said:


> This was a pretty scary comparison, pretty much identical.
> 
> However, this thread was doomed from the beginning because, well, we all know that saying Clyde is better than Kobe is blasphemy
> 
> ...


Plenty of people have explained why. You're either pretending to be ignorant or you can't help yourself. It's not an insult to Kobe it just isn't a very good comparison.


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## DNKO (Dec 23, 2008)

Nightmute said:


> Plenty of people have explained why. You're either pretending to be ignorant or you can't help yourself. It's not an insult to Kobe it just isn't a very good comparison.


Umm, yeah, no, nobody actually *explained* why it's not a good argument, it's basically just the case of "nope, it's Kobe, can't compare him to some nobody like Clyde, it's either Kobe vs MJ or nothing".

But I'm not phased, I'm fully aware that even if Kobe doesn't ever win a ring anymore, he'll still be on par with MJ for many many crazed Kobe homers / MJ haters (Cavs fans?) of today.


He's not even in my Top 10. That's shooting guards. Not until he wins it without Shaq.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

DNKO said:


> This was a pretty scary comparison, pretty much identical.
> 
> However, this thread was doomed from the beginning because, well, we all know that saying Clyde is better than Kobe is blasphemy
> 
> ...


No one on this board is saying that Kobe should be compared to Jordan. Get the hell over yourself, you're making things up.

Next time you go on a cute little rant how about you post something actually constructive instead of your biased opinions and talking down to everyone.


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## Piolo_Pascual (Sep 13, 2006)

DNKO said:


> This was a pretty scary comparison, pretty much identical.
> Although no one can actually tell WHY


Yeah. Pretty identical.


MVP

Kobe=1
Clyde=0

NBA titles

Kobe=3
Clyde=1


All time Career PER Ranking 

Kobe=23rd
Cylde=40th

Top 5 finish in PER Ranking

Kobe=4
Clyde=1

Scoring Champion

Kobe=2
Clyde=0


30+ PPG season Average

Kobe=3
Cylde=0


Season leader in total points scored

Kobe=4
Clyde=0

All NBA 1st team selections
Kobe=7
Clyde=1

All Nba defense selections

Kobe= too many
Clyde=0

Top 3 Finish in MVP award shares

Kobe=4
Clyde=1

Career points scored (regular season)

Clyde= 22,195
Kobe= 23,820 (counting)

Career points scored (Playoffs)

Kobe= 4,015 (6th All time)
Clyde 2,963 (23rd All time)

Career offensive win shares (rank)

Kobe=11th all time
Clyde=22nd All time


Top 5 finish in Win shares%

Kobe=4
Clyde=1


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

DNKO said:


> Umm, yeah, no, nobody actually *explained* why it's not a good argument, it's basically just the case of "nope, it's Kobe, can't compare him to some nobody like Clyde, it's either Kobe vs MJ or nothing".
> 
> But I'm not phased, I'm fully aware that even if Kobe doesn't ever win a ring anymore, he'll still be on par with MJ for many many crazed Kobe homers / MJ haters (Cavs fans?) of today.
> 
> ...


Did you just say that Kobe Bryant isn't a top ten shooting guard of all time or top ten player of all time? Because the former would mean that you're an idiot, and the latter would be the consuess on this board.


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## Game3525 (Aug 14, 2008)

DNKO said:


> Umm, yeah, no, nobody actually *explained* why it's not a good argument, it's basically just the case of "nope, it's Kobe, can't compare him to some nobody like Clyde, it's either Kobe vs MJ or nothing".
> 
> But I'm not phased, I'm fully aware that even if Kobe doesn't ever win a ring anymore, he'll still be on par with MJ for many many crazed Kobe homers / MJ haters (Cavs fans?) of today.
> 
> ...


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

I don't want to copy the whole thing and make this page ridiculously long, but that was probobly the first time that I've ever agreed with OMGBASELROCKS or Anznzn or whatever the hell his name is.


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## Piolo_Pascual (Sep 13, 2006)

lakeshows said:


> NOW tell me that this comparison is horrible.


Its horrible if you're going by PER 36 minutes to compare their careers and accomplishments.


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## lakeshows (Mar 17, 2009)

OMGBaselRocks! said:


> Its horrible if you're going by PER 36 minutes to compare their careers and accomplishments.


Yeah ok. Those are pure career stats. Those stats show that the players are similar which is what this thread is about. Kobe is a better scorer, but he has had to be. Kobe does have more "accolades", and I would put Kobe ahead of Drexler as I've said before. But to say that this comparison is horrible is erroneous.


Kobe can put himself in another category though if he wins another ring (or two or three), but if he doesn't I do believe 20 years from now people will put these two in the same category.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

lakeshows said:


> Yeah ok. Those are pure career stats. Those stats show that the players are similar which is what this thread is about. Kobe is a better scorer, but he has had to be. Kobe does have more "accolades", and I would put Kobe ahead of Drexler as I've said before. But to say that this comparison is horrible is erroneous.
> 
> 
> Kobe can put himself in another category though if he wins another ring (or two or three), but if he doesn't I do believe 20 years from now people will put these two in the same category.


Drexler's career simply doesn't match up with Kobe's, deal with it. If your having trouble believing this, then just look at OMGBaselRocks post, it'll become pretty clear after reading that.


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## DNKO (Dec 23, 2008)

Game3525 said:


> Who is your top ten, if you have players who don't have rings. Then your point is invalid.



It's not exclusively about rings, because then I should put Horry or Kerr on my list.

I can't put Kobe on MY PERSONAL top 10 list, after his debacles in 2 NBA Finals.

I just can't do it.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

DNKO said:


> It's not exclusively about rings, because then I should put Horry or Kerr on my list.
> 
> I can't put Kobe on MY PERSONAL top 10 list, after his debacles in 2 NBA Finals.
> 
> I just can't do it.


Read the 50th post in this thread and answer it please. I have a feeling it will clear a lot of things up.


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## Game3525 (Aug 14, 2008)

DNKO said:


> It's not exclusively about rings, because then I should put Horry or Kerr on my list.
> 
> I can't put Kobe on MY PERSONAL top 10 list, after his debacles in 2 NBA Finals.
> 
> I just can't do it.



Who is in your top ten then?


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## lakeshows (Mar 17, 2009)

VanillaPrice said:


> Drexler's career simply doesn't match up with Kobe's, deal with it. If your having trouble believing this, then just look at OMGBaselRocks post, it'll become pretty clear after reading that.


Almost all of those stats are kobe scoring more points. Everyone has said that Kobe is a better scorer. Yeah there's 20 different ways to say it like (most points scored, playoff points scored, 30ppg seasons, led the league in scoring, etc.....). Did you even look at the stats he posted? 

The biggest thing Kobe has in his favor is his MVP. Drexler never won one. The 3 rings Kobe won aren't impressive since they all say SHAQ on them, and Kobe never had to play against the GOAT in his prime. It does put Kobe ahead, but not by as much as Kobe fans would like to believe.


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## King Joseus (May 26, 2003)

Hmm. Why is it that Kobe's titles get completely discounted? Shaq wouldn't have done it without him.


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## Game3525 (Aug 14, 2008)

lakeshows said:


> Almost all of those stats are kobe scoring more points. Everyone has said that Kobe is a better scorer. Yeah there's 20 different ways to say it like (most points scored, playoff points scored, 30ppg seasons, led the league in scoring, etc.....). Did you even look at the stats he posted?
> 
> The biggest thing Kobe has in his favor is his MVP. Drexler never won one. * The 3 rings Kobe won aren't impressive since they all say SHAQ on them, and Kobe never had to play against the GOAT in his prime.*



That is BS, Kobe was huge reason they won those championships. Shaq wouldn't have won without Bryant, and Bryant wouldn't have won three without Shaq. With that way of thinking, Clyde's ring is not impressive as well.


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## lakeshows (Mar 17, 2009)

Game3525 said:


> That is BS, Kobe was huge reason they won those championship. Shaq wouldn't have won without Bryant, and Bryant wouldn't have won three without Shaq. With that way of thinking, Clyde's ring is not impressive as well.


You are right Clyde's ring was not impressive. Although, Shaq would have won those rings with any all-star level sg/sf/pg in his prime.

When debating someone's greatness having rings where you are a clear sidekick does nothing for the argument. It's that simple.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

^ Exactly.

And besides being a far supirior scorer, Kobe's also been the FAR better defender. He's got ten All D teams to Drexler's zero. He blows him away in win shares, PER, EFF, and personal accolades. He had a bigger role in each of his three championship then Drexler did in his. He's been nominated to SEVEN All NBA first teams to Drexler's ONE, He's been to the finals three more times. His playoff numbers blow Drexler's out of the water.

Anyone that watched these two players play knows that it isn't a legitament discussion. And the only three people arguing it are - 

A Kobe hater.

Another Kobe hater

And, a poster that seemingly hates every single player in NBA history that didn't play in his favorite version of the NBA, the 90's. (Which he calls the oldschool, while being seemingly unaware that there were four decades of professional basketball played before that.)

Edit: The "Exactly" in my post was directed at King Joseus, just thought I'd clear that up.


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## Game3525 (Aug 14, 2008)

lakeshows said:


> You are right Clyde's ring was not impressive. Although, *Shaq would have won those rings with any all-star level sg/sf/pg in his prime.*
> 
> When debating someone's greatness having rings where you are a clear sidekick does nothing for the argument. It's that simple.



Who? The top perimeter players during 2000-2002 were Bryant, McGrady, Carter, Iverson, Pierce and Kidd. Lets breakdown the field, shall we? 

McGrady-lacked the defensive intensity that Kobe brought to the game, they were about even on the offensive side in those years though.

Carter-Lacked shot, often injured, played with no heart or desire etc.

Iverson-Dominated the ball far too much, would be a ball stopper in the triangle offense

Pierce-not as good a defender as Bryant, Bryant had more ability to create a decent shot

Kidd-Couldn't hit the right side of the rim, great defensive player but an offensive liability.


Bryant may have been the 2nd option to the team, but he brought alot to the table and was one of the main reasons they won those championship.


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## lakeshows (Mar 17, 2009)

Game3525 said:


> Who? The top perimeter players during 2000-2002 were Bryant, McGrady, Carter, Iverson, Pierce and Kidd. Lets breakdown the field, shall we?
> 
> McGrady-lacked the defensive intensity that Kobe brought to the game, they were about even on the offensive side in those years though.
> 
> ...



I do believe a prime Shaq would have won rings with pretty much any of those players in that span. I think most people would agree. Feel free to poll it.


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## Piolo_Pascual (Sep 13, 2006)

lakeshows said:


> Yeah there's 20 different ways to say it like (most points scored, playoff points scored, 30ppg seasons, led the league in scoring, etc.....). Did you even look at the stats he posted


All NBA Defensive team was'nt there? Im 100% sure its posted above.

Clyde has the advantage in steals, but steals does not mean much if we're bringing the whole defensive capabilities in the equation. 



Kobe earned the highest praise from Jackson. He said Kobe has been his best facilitator and defensive player on his floor. Yes, this was in the same book were Kobe got major criticisms from Phil. So no bias there.


Edge? Kobe.


All NBA Teams, MVP wins and finishes are NOT just offensive related measurements. If it is, Dominique Wilkins would probably have some.




> The biggest thing Kobe has in his favor is his MVP. Drexler never won one. The 3 rings Kobe won aren't impressive since they all say SHAQ on them, and Kobe never had to play against the GOAT in his prime. It does put Kobe ahead, but not by as much as Kobe fans would like to believe.


The Blazers, Kings and the Spurs would disagree with you. Kobe absolutely did as much damage like Shaq.


I can post jaw dropping stats. But does it really matter? To some people,(not you directly) Kobe and proven statistical numbers does not exist.


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## Game3525 (Aug 14, 2008)

lakeshows said:


> I do believe a prime Shaq would have won rings with pretty much any of those players in that span. I think most people would agree. Feel free to poll it.



What are your reasons then? None of these guys I listed brought the whole package to the table like Bryant did. P.S public perception doesn't mean that it will happen.


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## JT (Mar 1, 2004)

clyde only has five all-nba? very surprising.


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

ChrisRichards said:


> Kobe - Drexler comparison is fair
> 
> - both won NBA Championship as side-kicks to All-Time Greatest Centers
> 
> ...


Drexlerwas the better rebounder and passer. Hobe, the vest scorer and defender.
And Kobe is miles ahead of Drexler in individual and colective accolades.

So, to your question, the answer is no.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

The only two players I could see Shaq winning with (Though none of them would 3-peat) would be T-Mac and Ray Allen. Iverson wouldn't deal with being a number two, Cater was a headcase, and the triangle is just a terrible offense for a point guard that can't shoot.


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## Piolo_Pascual (Sep 13, 2006)

lakeshows said:


> I do believe a prime Shaq would have won rings with pretty much any of those players in that span. I think most people would agree. Feel free to poll it.


Shaq did'nt win anything with one of the premiere perimeter player in the 90's on his side. I mean its a small example, but its better than hypotheticals.


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## Game3525 (Aug 14, 2008)

VanillaPrice said:


> The only two players I could see Shaq winning with (Though none of them would 3-peat) would be T-Mac and Ray Allen. Iverson wouldn't deal with being a number two, Cater was a headcase, and the triangle is just a terrible offense for a point guard that can't shoot.



Yeah, McGrady is the only one I can give a chance to winning a championship with Shaq, since he and Bryant's skill sets were similar, the only problem with McGrady was his defense and that he took games off. Iverson might of too, but he was/is far too ball dominent to work with the Shaq.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

Game3525 said:


> Yeah, McGrady is the only one I can give a chance to winning a championship with Shaq, since he and Bryant's skill sets were similar, the only problem with McGrady was his defense and that he took games off.


And thats the reason why I didn't expect them to three-peat.


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## Game3525 (Aug 14, 2008)

VanillaPrice said:


> And thats the reason why I didn't expect them to three-peat.


McGrady is a big disappointment, all that talent wasted due to injury and effort. If he had actually tried and showed more williness to improve he would be in the discussion of best perimeter player in the game alongside Bryant, and James.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

Again, kobe has 9 1st or 2nd team all-nba's to drexler's 3. Its really not that close a comparison. As players the gap wasn't a big one, but it is a clear one. Kobe has drexler beat any way you want to measure it. Most notably in there relative standing in their league. But also any way you choose to look at it. Really. Both great players, one ahead of the other. No disrespect to clyde.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

The lakers won 2 of their titles by the narrowest of margins. Why people think its a given that they would have won all 3 with a lesser player than kobe is beyond me.


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## JT (Mar 1, 2004)

well kflo, kobe was accused of heinous sexual crimes. and, he snitched on shaq. that's a big no-no you see.


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## Game3525 (Aug 14, 2008)

JT said:


> well kflo, kobe was accused of heinous sexual crimes. and, he snitched on shaq. that's a big no-no you see.



I don't know if you are being sarcastic, but how does this affect Kobe's play on the court with Shaq?


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

Game3525 said:


> I don't know if you are being sarcastic, but how does this affect Kobe's play on the court with Shaq?


He was joking.


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## Game3525 (Aug 14, 2008)

VanillaPrice said:


> He was joking.



You can never tell, I have heard some strange stuff before.


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

Lots of e-wimps in this thread. :laugh:


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## ChrisRichards (Jul 17, 2007)

VanillaPrice said:


> Kobe's also been the FAR better defender. He's got ten All D teams to Drexler's zero.


I've already answered this point.

Michael Jordan was a much better defender than both Kobe and Drexler, and MJ won the All-NBA Defensive first team every year he played after 1988.

so Bryant would be in the same boat as Drexler, with 0 all-nba defensive first teams.

Again, you are penalizing Drexler for having played in an amazing basketball era.


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## ChrisRichards (Jul 17, 2007)

kflo said:


> The lakers won 2 of their titles by the narrowest of margins. Why people think its a given that they would have won all 3 with a lesser player than kobe is beyond me.


Shaq reached the Finals with Penny AND Wade.

He won it with Wade, too.

Prime Shaq was BOUND to win rings, Kobe was just the guy fortunate to have him.

Let's say Kobe was drafted by Charlotte and never traded to LA. He has 0 rings right about now.

Give Shaq a team and they are contending. Shaq is THAT good during his prime. We all saw it. Pre and after Laker years.

So please, please stop using "3 rings" as a support for your argument.


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## Game3525 (Aug 14, 2008)

ChrisRichards said:


> Shaq reached the Finals with Penny AND Wade.
> 
> He won it with Wade, too.
> 
> ...



Shaq was great, but he wouldn't have won 3 titles by himself. And who knows if Kobe went to Charlotte they could have made it to the finals with a core of Davis, Bryant, and Mashburn.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

ChrisRichards said:


> Shaq reached the Finals with Penny AND Wade.
> 
> He won it with Wade, too.
> 
> ...


Are you a fortune teller? How the hell do you know what would happen if Kobe was drafted to Charlotte?

And if you honestly believe that any of those players would have won three in a row, then damn. I really don't even have an intelligent response to that, except that you should probobly avoid Laker topics from now on.


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## Game3525 (Aug 14, 2008)

ChrisRichards said:


> I've already answered this point.
> 
> Michael Jordan was a much better defender than both Kobe and Drexler, and MJ won the All-NBA Defensive first team every year he played after 1988.
> 
> ...




Doesn't change the fact that Bryant is still a better defender then Clyde, with or without the accolades.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

ChrisRichards said:


> I've already answered this point.
> 
> Michael Jordan was a much better defender than both Kobe and Drexler, and MJ won the All-NBA Defensive first team every year he played after 1988.
> 
> ...


As far as I know, there's two guard spots.

And you're overrating the 90's big guy.


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## ChrisRichards (Jul 17, 2007)

kflo said:


> Again, kobe has 9 1st or 2nd team all-nba's to drexler's 3. Its really not that close a comparison. As players the gap wasn't a big one, but it is a clear one. Kobe has drexler beat any way you want to measure it. Most notably in there relative standing in their league. But also any way you choose to look at it. Really. Both great players, one ahead of the other. No disrespect to clyde.


Drexler played in an era of Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson, Magic Bird, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, etc... all of those players are better than both Drexler and Kobe Bryant. So the fact that Drexler was never regarded as the league's best player is irrelevant because neither of them would have been regarded as better during Drexler's era.

Kobe would NOT make All-NBA First team when the following guys are playing :

G - Magic Johnson
G - Michael Jordan

the end.

It won't be until 1991 that Magic leaves, and by then, Kobe would have been in the league 8 years and flew under the radar like Drexler did.

Kobe would have been a Drexler type "great player" but drowned out in the Magic/Bird/Kareem/Jordan era.

Really, look at the players stats and history, they are similar.

Clyde was a better rebounder and passer, he also shot better FG%, about even 3pt%, Clyde has more steals and blocks....

but Kobe scores more points but also takes more shots than Clyde.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

ChrisRichards said:


> Drexler played in an era of Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson, Magic Bird, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, etc... all of those players are better than both Drexler and Kobe Bryant. So the fact that Drexler was never regarded as the league's best player is irrelevant because neither of them would have been regarded as better during Drexler's era.
> 
> Kobe would NOT make All-NBA First team when the following guys are playing :
> 
> ...


Then why didn't he make the first team more often after '91? How come he only had two second teams? You're picking and choosing your information, it's annoying.

And no, it's not similar. Drexler was the better passer and rebounder. Kobe was the far better scorer, far better defender, and has had FAR more sucsess with more indevidual accolades.

It's not close, get over it. Start arguing that Wade will pass Kobe or something, because I know that you're dying to try and take another shot at him.


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## ChrisRichards (Jul 17, 2007)

VanillaPrice said:


> As far as I know, there's two guard spots.
> 
> And you're overrating the 90's big guy.


All-NBA Defensive first teams ?

Kobe is not better than the following :

G- Joe Dumars
G- Michael Jordan


and then from 1993-1998 it was :

G - Gary Payton
G - Michael Jordan

so yeah, all those awards go down the drain. Kobe would be in the SAME SITUATION that Drexler got caught up in.

AND most posters here will agree Kobe Bryant DID NOT DESERVE to be on the team this year.


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## Game3525 (Aug 14, 2008)

VanillaPrice said:


> *Then why didn't he make the first team more often after '91? How come he only had two second teams? You're picking and choosing your information, it's annoying.*
> 
> And no, it's not similar. Drexler was the better passer and rebounder. Kobe was the far better scorer, far better defender, and has had FAR more sucsess with more indevidual accolades.
> 
> It's not close, get over it. Start arguing that Wade will pass Kobe or something, because I know that you're dying to try and take another shot at him.



Good point, he forgets that Clyde was seen as the second best player in the game next to MJ, he sould have been on first team more then once.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

ChrisRichards said:


> All-NBA Defensive first teams ?
> 
> Kobe is not better than the following :
> 
> ...



Michael retied for two years, he had that window. Also the All D second team. Quit making excuses, you hate Kobe, we get it. Stop posting about him then. It's a constant thing with you, honestly, why don't you talk about players you like more often?


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## Full Effect (Dec 12, 2004)

Good stuff love the comparison. However i just think we will all remember Kobe as a far better player than Drexler. Remember the ring Clyde won was late in his career, on a different team that he started his career for. Kobe has 3 rings and is going to get his 4th this year. Great stats but Kobe is far from Drexler, no disrespect.


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## ChrisRichards (Jul 17, 2007)

Game3525 said:


> Good point, he forgets that Clyde was seen as the second best player in the game next to MJ, he sould have been on first team more then once.


Most of Clyde's first 8 years in the NBA were dominated by Magic Johnson and Michael Jordan.

By the time MJ left the NBA for 2 years, Clyde was 32-33 years old.

Past his prime. That's why.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

ChrisRichards said:


> Most of Clyde's first 8 years in the NBA were dominated by Magic Johnson and Michael Jordan.
> 
> By the time MJ left the NBA for 2 years, Clyde was 32-33 years old.
> 
> Past his prime. That's why.


You've yet to adress this (Among numerous others) point, how come Drexler only has two second team's then? And Jordan was injured for a year, and retired for two more. Every single knowladgable fan knows that Kobe is better than Drexler, I'm not seeing why you can't grasp this.


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## Nightmute (Apr 12, 2007)

DNKO said:


> Umm, yeah, no, nobody actually *explained* why it's not a good argument, it's basically just the case of "nope, it's Kobe, can't compare him to some nobody like Clyde, it's either Kobe vs MJ or nothing".
> 
> But I'm not phased, I'm fully aware that even if Kobe doesn't ever win a ring anymore, he'll still be on par with MJ for many many crazed Kobe homers / MJ haters (Cavs fans?) of today.
> 
> ...


Then you haven't been paying attention and really can't help your ignorance.


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## ChrisRichards (Jul 17, 2007)

VanillaPrice said:


> You've yet to adress this (Among numerous others) point, how come Drexler only has two second team's then? And Jordan was injured for a year, and retired for two more. Every single knowladgable fan knows that Kobe is better than Drexler, I'm not seeing why you can't grasp this.


Whoa there, don't dodge my response. I just answered yours and now you want to talk about something else.

By the time MJ retired in 93, Clyde was 31-32 years old. 

Past his prime.


and I already said I give the edge to Kobe, but not by much. Kobe is very similar to Clyde.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

ChrisRichards said:


> Whoa there, don't dodge my response. I just answered yours and now you want to talk about something else.
> 
> By the time MJ retired in 93, Clyde was 31-32 years old.
> 
> ...


No you didn't. You never answered why Drexler couldn't muster more then two all NBA second teams, and why he couldn't get on the first team the year that Jordan broke his leg.

The fact is, if Drexler had made 10+ second teams, you might have had an argument. But considering that he only made a very pedesterian two, your argument holds absolutley no water.


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## DNKO (Dec 23, 2008)

OMGBaselRocks! said:


> Shaq did'nt win anything with one of the premiere perimeter player in the 90's on his side. I mean its a small example, but its better than hypotheticals.


- he played in the same conference with Jordan
- when MJ left and then came back for last 20 games, he got to the Finals (very coincidental)
- then next year, he had the third best record in the league, but, well, Jordan
- then Penny got injured, and that was the end of that
- and then in LA, he encountered Malone


Of course, a lot of smartasses on this forum will probably address to that Utah Jazz team as "undersized white guards, semi-decent power forward who only played _________ (insert a coaching phrase to come off smart like a true basketball _expert_ who analyses every player to a point where he can sum his game up in 2-3 words), in a weak league hurt by huge expansions" or some similar "I hate MJ and I hate him hard" type of bullcrap

But the fact is - Utah was a great great team at the time and no way he could pass them. Even if he dunked 20 times a game.

So Utah, Utah, Utah, lockout, and then - voila, the year 2000.

Spurs got kicked out by Suns, Lakers fought off Portlands "Dream Team" lol, and the rest we all know.


And what's further coincidental is that the end of Lakers reign came after a disputes Kobe and Shaq had. 

What a dreamy teammate. So then Shaq went to Miami and won a ring over there.

Where as Kobe got to play against Boston last year. And not to discredit Kobe, he put up some Jordan-type numbers.

In his 35 Finals appearances, MJ led the Bulls in scoring 32 times (91.4%). By comparison, Bryant has led the Lakers in scoring 7 times in 24 Finals games (29.2%). 

So many comparisons between the two are very close. For instance, Jordan's career NBA Finals scoring average of 33.6 PPG is only two points above Bryant’s 2008 Game 4 shooting percentage of 31.6%.

O'Neal earned three consecutive NBA Finals MVPs in 2000, 2001 and 2002, averaging 38.0, 33.0, and 36.3 points a game respectively, while dominating the boards. 

Still, it wasn't all Shaq. While playing alongside Shaq, Bryant reached the 30-point plateau in the Finals four times, giving him three more 30-point Finals performances than Toni Kukoc. Who also has three NBA Championship rings. 

Bryant has however topped the 30-point plateau six times in the NBA Finals. Which becomes even more impressive considering Jordan topped the 40-point plateau in the Finals seven times.

Kobe in his first Finals;
Game 1: 14
Game 2: 2
Game 3: DNP
Game 4: 28
Game 5: 8
Game 6: 26

15.1 PPG.

Toni Kukoc's stat line from the 1998 Finals:

Game 1: 9
Game 2: 13
Game 3: 16
Game 4: 8
Game 5: 30
Game 6: 15

Kukoc's average for the series? 15.2 PPG.


It's cool to maul Toronto Wraptors, but on the BIG STAGE, things get a bit different for the GOAT Kobe.


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## Bon]{eRz (Feb 23, 2005)

If you're going to compare Kobe to anyone from the 80's/90's generation of players, the only valid comparison is with Jordan. For the similarities in their play, their individual accolades, team success, and clearly being the elite 2-guard of the league for several years. 

A more meaningful comparison to Drexler from the current generation of players would be someone like Ray Allen.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

DNKO said:


> - he played in the same conference with Jordan
> - when MJ left and then came back for last 20 games, he got to the Finals (very coincidental)
> - then next year, he had the third best record in the league, but, well, Jordan
> - then Penny got injured, and that was the end of that
> ...


it's not that relevant, but the lakers toughest opponents during their 3peat were always within the conference. focusing only on the finals is a silly way to measure how well kobe played during their title runs. he played great in the '01 playoffs, and not as great in the finals. he played very well in the '02 finals, not as well the rest of the playoffs. shaq's best series were almost all in the finals, but not as good against some of the tougher in conference matchups. the big stage for the lakers wasn't just against the nets or pacers or sixers. that was the easy part.

and penny got hurt after shaq already left orlando.

this of course is almost irrelevant in the discussion of kobe vs drexler.


----------



## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

ChrisRichards said:


> Whoa there, don't dodge my response. I just answered yours and now you want to talk about something else.
> 
> By the time MJ retired in 93, Clyde was 31-32 years old.
> 
> ...


jordan took 1 of 4 spots on the 1st and 2nd all-nba teams, 1 of 4 spots on the all-defense teams. i don't know why you continue to point to jordan standing in the way. fat lever was in his way. alvin robertson was in his way. kj was in his way. richmond was in his way. stockton was in his way. it's easy to explain jordan. harder to explain fat lever. 

drexler's peak was shorter. and it wasn't as high. it's pretty simple. unless you have no interest in reality.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

Why the hell are you arguing that Jordan is better then Kobe, DNKO? We all know this, Jordan isn't relavent in this thread. I reiterate from another thread, if you want to talk about Kobe and Jordan then make a seperate thread, no one cares how much better Jordan is than Kobe.


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

ChrisRichards said:


> Kobe - Drexler comparison is fair
> 
> - both won NBA Championship as side-kicks to All-Time Greatest Centers
> 
> ...


lmao bump.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

:laugh:


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## OneBadLT123 (Oct 4, 2005)

Well we all due respect to CR, at the time he did have a legit point.
Now though, umm yeah no.... Not anymore


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

OneBadLT123 said:


> Well we all due respect to CR, at the time he did have a legit point.
> Now though, umm yeah no.... Not anymore


he really never had a legit point. kobe was at that point clearly well established ahead of drexler by any reasonable measure. guys like cr kept going to the next excuse, down the line, as to why kobe wasn't as good as he obviously was/is.


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

I miss ChrisRichards...


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

So has anyone found his dead body after the Lakers repeated?


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

^ He's trolling over at SpursReport. Dude is a full-on stalker, pretty scary stuff. Guess he pussied out of posting here since he knows no one's got his back here.


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## BeeGee (Jul 9, 2010)

This topic is pretty laughable, unless you like to jerk off to statistical comparisons. Clyde Drexler was a very solid player. Kobe Bryant is one of the greatest players to ever play. It's not even worth going into. Kobe just led the Lakers to their 3rd straight Finals appearance and their 2nd straight title, as the team leader and #1 option. The title of this thread had me wondering if this was some sort of prank. "This Generation's Clyde Drexler" has spent half of his career in the NBA Finals. He's spent more than half his career on the leagues 1st team and defensive 1st team. Um nevermind. It's just not a good comparison at all.


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## ChrisRichards (Jul 17, 2007)

Ok, so I see someone bumped this thread in June 2010, most likely after the Lakers two peat.

Kobe sucked. Shoots 6-24 and wins? yeah, real argument for being better than Clyde. great job!

also, guess who leads the Lakers in win shares? Pau Gasol. Not Kobe. 

oh, and I guess after Kobe getting swept in the playoffs, I can 

"lmao bump"



Anyway, I'm over Kobe Bryant. I no longer have to drop basketball knowledge on the Church of Kobe members anymore. It's pretty obvious now to most people I encounter, so good thing that's over with. I remember how I used to post on this forum and get laughed at by Laker fans in denial. Wonder if those Laker fans remembered ChrisRichards when they saw Kobe jacking Jordan's celebrations after the championship? I mean, I called that on these forums many times. 

Nowadays, my problems, as a fan of basketball and upholder of NBA integrity, is that Derrick Rose is now overrated and now LBJ is getting overrated. I love LBJ and he's on my team, but he's got a -lot- of work to do to be near Jordan. Yeah, LBJ is the one player since MJ that I see has a legitimate shot to equal MJ....I've been saying that for years.... but he's not the GOAT. Pippen is high.


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

You could do all of us a favor by keeping these thoughts to yourself.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

I don't think there's a credible person on this site that doesn't have Kobe clearly ahead of Drexler, hell, there isn't a credible person on this site that doesn't have Kobe in their top ten. It's simply not debate anymore. Yeah, he's never going to get to the top three or five or whatever, but he's absolutely top eight or so.

And LeBron doesn't really have *that* much to go to be considered as comparable to a prime Jordan. MJ was the more dangerous scorer and better man defender, but LeBron's a better passer and rebounder. I still give Jordan the clear edge but it's abundantly clear that through these next couple of years LeBron will work up a resume that is atleast in the conversation.


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## ChrisRichards (Jul 17, 2007)

I was watching some bball vids recently and thought of this thread when watching that video.

1) If Rookie Clyde Drexler had Shaq on his team, Clyde would have multiple rings as well instead of only 1

2) Clyde Drexler doesn't break up the Shaq-Drexler dynasty. The man was all class, on and off the court.

Clyde had better skills, better fundamentals than Bryant. The stats all point to Clyde the Glide being a more efficient scorer, a better passer, better most everything. Kobe puts up more shot attempts, less assists, and plays for the Lakers, got mega hype coming out of high school. Look at the situations individually.

I would take Clyde's basketball game over Kobe's any day of the week. Put Clyde on the Lakers organization, a front office that brings in the best players and isn't afraid to spend money AND knows how to build a team....

This sort of discussion can't be had on this type of basketball forum though. 

The biggest counter-argument I will get is : "5 rings"


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