# Not a good draft



## lanigan34 (Dec 27, 2002)

Very interesting picks by the Celtics, however you have to wonder which direction the team is going. As you recall last year they selected Kendrick Perkins out of high school, as well as marcus banks. Im not even close to write either of them off its just too early, but you have to wonder in the days leading up to the draft Doc Rivers was quoted as saying thier #1 need was PG. I know atkins is a compentent starter in the league and markus is the heir apparent but I really think they reached a bit with dalonte west. The Celtics brass confessed the delonte was thier #2 PG on thier board which makes no sense to me as the cuttino mobley comparisons are dead on and did he ever turn out to be a PG? The selection of allen also baffles me as the backcourt is already loaded and in allens case he is not a great shooter by any means, so im kinda wondering where exactly he fits in on this team. A euro they could stash or a trade made a lot more sense to me on the 25th pick and also the 24th pick. Which brings me back to Jefferson, who by all accounts was a great value at 15. I think most fans in general are pleased by this pick although patience will be needed, which as you all now is not exactly what Boston fans are known for. In conclusion, my grade for this draft is C-, as I dont believe they reach the goals they set going in to this draft.


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## whiterhino (Jun 15, 2003)

I grade it a D as I stated in another post. They BLEW it. I love Al, the others are wasted picks and wasted money. I'd rather have given the picks away than pick those guys. You are right too, Delonte West is NOT a PG by any means. 
The scariest thing was supposedly the Celts had Delonte West rated as the 2nd best PG in the draft after Shaun Livingston, oh I'm sure he's better than Jameer Nelson (his teamate and NCAA player of the year), Ben Gordon, Sebastien Telfair, Devin Harris, Etc...give me a freaking break, that's SCARY, that means we have TERRIBLE scouting. Also they said we had Tony Allen as the #2 SG, are you telling me he's better than Dorrel Wright, Sergei Monya, Sasha Vujacic etc...Yeah right, what are they smoking!!!!??


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## yasha (Jun 25, 2004)

> Also they said we had Tony Allen as the #2 SG, are you telling me he's better than Dorrel Wright, Sergei Monya, Sasha Vujacic etc...Yeah right, what are they smoking!!!!??


And you saw these players play a total of how many times? I'm guessing zero. I think it was a pretty good draft. Al Jefferson certainly has a lot of potential and has been compared to Elton Brand, which is just what we need. West and Allen can be good NBA players and they might be able to contribute next year. It also sounds like their second round pick, Justin Reed, has a good chance of making the team and was compared to Corliss Williamson by the Celtics. I still don't know how we did in last years draft with Perkins and Banks so it's way too early to grade this one. Lets wait and see.


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## whiterhino (Jun 15, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>yasha</b>!
> 
> 
> And you saw these players play a total of how many times? I'm guessing zero. I think it was a pretty good draft. Al Jefferson certainly has a lot of potential and has been compared to Elton Brand, which is just what we need. West and Allen can be good NBA players and they might be able to contribute next year. It also sounds like their second round pick, Justin Reed, has a good chance of making the team and was compared to Corliss Williamson by the Celtics. I still don't know how we did in last years draft with Perkins and Banks so it's way too early to grade this one. Lets wait and see.


[strike]LISTEN MR. 1 POST, don't YOU DARE tell me how many times I've seen them play. IF YOU KNEW ANYTHING ABOUT ME, which you don't, you'd know I LIVE & BREATH basketball and I've see ALL those players play MANY MANY TIMES:upset: :upset: :upset: :upset: :upset: :upset: :upset: :upset: :upset: :upset: DON'T YOU DARE PRESUME TO KNOW WHAT I KNOW AND DON'T, YOU ARE THE ONE WHO'S PROBABLY NEVER SEEN THEM PLAY SINCE YOU SO BLINDLY THINK ANYONE WE CHOOSE WILL BE GOOD!:upset: :upset:[/strike]

*Remember rhino, you were once a Mr. One Post too. Post count doesn't make you superior to anyone. It just means you've been here longer. We encourage people of all post counts to be involved here, its good for discussion.*

Also, calm down before posting. Its just a web site. Its not an affront to yourself as a person. Calm down and think before your post.

--agoo


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## Big John (Sep 11, 2002)

Well Whiterhino, you"re loud, but you're wrong. Maybe the two are related.


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## SamIam (Jun 1, 2004)

I guess since all the players you mentioned as being better than Delonte West and Allen were already drafted the point is moot. Who did you want them to draft at 24,25 when they go there? Varejo, Vucacic, Harrison? There were pretty slim pickings at that point.

They definitely surprised me but I must give them credit. The draft was heavy on potential and little on substance. I think the players that could most help the Celtics in the draft are Okafur ( a Ben Wallace clone who will score 10-15 ppg ), Howard (who is touted as the next Garnett but looks more like a healthy, young Vin Baker without being head case - which isn't bad but isn't great) and Jefferson who I think could be the best of the bunch as long as he stays fit. Any guy who scores 42 points a game in high school has game. Usually those guys turn out to be too small to be a star in NBA (like Dana Barros who scored 35/game in HS). He is 6-10, huge and relentless and loves to mix it up - how did they get him at 15?

Any one drafted in the 20's is usually a stiff or someone overlooked. The Celtics actually drafted 2 of the best college players with experience. It seems like they paid attention to the Boozer, Howard and Daniels.

With Perkins on the bench the C's don't need more than 2 projects so I am not upset they didn't get Swift, Dorrell and Jefferson which the first Mock drafts projected. They need guys who can contribute right away whether it is in practice or to spell the stars or in situation where we need defensive stops. If only one of the two becomes a contributor than draft was a success.


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## SamIam (Jun 1, 2004)

I forgot to mention Swift. I think he is going to be a very good player that will remind people of Walton or Smits but probably won't be as strong as those 2. I don't think he will contribute much to his team for at least 3 years. Although I would have liked to get him I am much happier with Jefferson because his athleticism and nastiness fits better with an uptempo, attacking team. Who in the draft looks more capable of protecting Pierce's back?


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*Summer League*

Just booked my trip to Vegas to watch Summer League. I'll be at the Mandalay Bay (11 acres of beach, wavepool, even a topless area!).

Cannot wait to see Marcus, Kendrick, Al, Delonte, Tony and Justin. I hear Raef may even play. If the Celtics don't win every game in that league, I'll be shocked!

I may lose my *** at the blackjack table, but I'm going to have some fun for a week!

What a vacation! Al Jefferson and Marcus Banks are going to KICK SOME MAJOR ARSE in Vegas!


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## whiterhino (Jun 15, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>SamIam</b>!
> I guess since all the players you mentioned as being better than Delonte West and Allen were already drafted the point is moot. Who did you want them to draft at 24,25 when they go there? Varejo, Vucacic, Harrison? There were pretty slim pickings at that point.
> 
> 
> .


You obviously didn't read my post too well, NONE of the players I listed were taken when we picked at 24 & 25 so no point is MOOT!


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## whiterhino (Jun 15, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Big John</b>!
> Well Whiterhino, you"re loud, but you're wrong. Maybe the two are related.


No Big John, I'm not wrong. I KNOW what I'm talking about. I used to scout for a Div II college. I also played in college. Now it's not the NBA but I know what to look for....take a look at what the experts are saying, most agree with me. This was a TERRIBLE draft for the Celtics, with the Exception of BIG AL JEFFERSON, that one was a VERY GOOD pick, but it still doesn't give me much faith because right after they chose him they were on the phone with Seattle trying to deal him to get Robert Swift!:sour: Now I DON'T think Swift is gonna be a bust like so many do, the kid has very good talent, but I don't think he's better than Jefferson and I think he's much farther away from being a contributor.


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## lanigan34 (Dec 27, 2002)

Also think its worth mentioning that the C's still have the MLE available to them so maybe they are up to something we dont know yet


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## Jeriqaui (Jul 5, 2003)

i know a lot of people out here that are going to the summer league just to see the homie marcus play. celtics are gonna have some bigtime homecourt advantage.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>SamIam</b>!
> 
> I guess since all the players you mentioned as being better than Delonte West and Allen were already drafted the point is moot. Who did you want them to draft at 24,25 when they go there? Varejeo, Vujacic, Harrison? There were pretty slim pickings at that point.


Yes, there were slim pickings at this point, but those possible selections still were rated higher than the selections the Celtics front office made, which is probably the reason why many NBA fans are puzzled at the selection the Boston Celtics made. Varejeo was once rated Top 10 last year in the strong, top-heavy 2003 NBA draft. Now, after playing in Europe, he is a better player and he is drafted much, much later. Can anybody give me an explanation for this event? Same goes with Vujacic. These players became better players, but were drafted later. Harrison, Varejeo, Ramos, and Vujacic were all rated first rounders by many credible sources and they all fell. This shows the uncertainty of the draft. The point is, Ainge selected two projected second rounders (one of them, who I am in favor of if he was on another team -- Tony Allen). Also, I will mention that I am not criticizing Ainge just for the purpose of criticizing him. I believe he could’ve done much better than he did. Unless, there is a trade I rate this draft a C+. 



> Any guy who scores 42 points a game in high school has game. Usually those guys turn out to be too small to be a star in NBA (like Dana Barros who scored 35/game in HS).
> 
> 
> > He is 6-10, huge and relentless and loves to mix it up - how did they get him at 15?
> ...


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## Coatesvillain (Jul 17, 2002)

The problem I have with the Celtics draft, is that they decided to draft two undersized tweeners back to back. Either Delonte or Tony would've been a solid pickup, but together it's a little head scratching. Both guys bring different things to the game, but together they bring question marks.

Now a question I have is, when the time comes who's more likely to play Center, Perkins or Jefferson?


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>PhillyPhanatic</b>!
> 
> Now a question I have is, when the time comes who's more likely to play Center, Perkins or Jefferson?


Yeah, Philly you saw my response to the 24-25 picks on the chat.  

Our future lineup will look something along the lines of:

PG: Banks
SG: Davis/Welsch
SF: Pierce
PF: Jefferson
C: Perkins

OT: Truth34, Texas Hold 'Em is where the money is at.


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## lanigan34 (Dec 27, 2002)

I know it was his rookie year and all but I didnt see much improvement in the play of marcus banks. Remember he was a four year college player and wasnt some inexperienced high school phenom or early draft entry. His adjustment process i figured would be much easier and before last season I projected him being the starter after the all star break. The starter at that time was mike james! Although a year from now we'll have a better idea of where hes going to end up being in the NBA, for now I see him as a backup for the near future. Also Doc Rivers comments before the draft seemed to reinforce this. BUt as you all know you cannot write him off just yet, we all know what happened with chauncey billups.


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## Richie Rich (May 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Big John</b>!
> Well Whiterhino, you"re loud, but you're wrong.








Agreed Big John.


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## Richie Rich (May 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>lanigan34</b>!
> I know it was his rookie year and all but I didnt see much improvement in the play of marcus banks. Remember he was a four year college player and wasnt some inexperienced high school phenom or early draft entry. His adjustment process i figured would be much easier and before last season I projected him being the starter after the all star break. The starter at that time was mike james! Although a year from now we'll have a better idea of where hes going to end up being in the NBA, for now I see him as a backup for the near future. Also Doc Rivers comments before the draft seemed to reinforce this. BUt as you all know you cannot write him off just yet, we all know what happened with chauncey billups.








Banks got no or inconsistent playing tyme last year so you cannot judge him as a PG during the tyme he played for a rook not named LeBron.


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## SamIam (Jun 1, 2004)

Whiterhino, I am a little late in replying. But Sergei Monya, Dorell Wright and Jameer Nelson were all taken before 24th pick. Sorry to ruin your argument with facts.


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>SamIam</b>!
> Whiterhino, I am a little late in replying. But Sergei Monya, Dorell Wright and Jameer Nelson were all taken before 24th pick. Sorry to ruin your argument with facts.


Uh, I don't see your point.

He said that Danny had West and Allen as the 2nd best at their position (PG and SG respectively) and you argue that Monya, Wright and Nelson were taken ahead of West and Allen.


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## agoo (Jun 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>lanigan34</b>!
> I know it was his rookie year and all but I didnt see much improvement in the play of marcus banks. Remember he was a four year college player and wasnt some inexperienced high school phenom or early draft entry. His adjustment process i figured would be much easier and before last season I projected him being the starter after the all star break. The starter at that time was mike james! Although a year from now we'll have a better idea of where hes going to end up being in the NBA, for now I see him as a backup for the near future. Also Doc Rivers comments before the draft seemed to reinforce this. BUt as you all know you cannot write him off just yet, we all know what happened with chauncey billups.


Point guards generally have a tough time as rookies in the league. Particularly guys like Banks who had free reign over the offense and could do whatever they wanted to do with the ball. Before he can start to lead the Celtics, the Celtics have to get him under control in the offense. Once that happens, watch out.


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## SamIam (Jun 1, 2004)

Aquatacious, the following is what Whiterhino said:

"You obviously didn't read my post too well, NONE of the players I listed were taken when we picked at 24 & 25 so no point is MOOT!"

But the players he listed were picked before 24 and 25... what else can I say.

Anyway, the draft was a weak one. The point guards taken ahead of West were Telfair, Nelson, Harris , Livingston and Gordon. Ainge had West ranked second. Telfair and Livingston have potential but right now aren't ready to play. Nelson looked very poor last year when he worked out for teams before the Draft and Rivers said publicly he may be too small. Ben Gordon is the one who is definitely better. Ainge said point blank that they think West is better than Harris. Are you so sure he is wrong? 

As far as shooting guards go who was drafted ahead of Allen? Kirk Snyder is probably the one they rated higher. After that there were Monya and JR Smith. The rest the wing players in draft are SG/PF types.

So you Ainge bashers want to fire him because a bunch of middle first rounders in a weak draft weren't rated higher than the two they picked. You guys probably agreed with Mel Kiper for bashing the Pats when they drafted Richard Seymour because they could have had David Terrell.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>whiterhino</b>!
> 
> 
> No Big John, I'm not wrong. I KNOW what I'm talking about. I used to scout for a Div II college. I also played in college. Now it's not the NBA but I know what to look for....take a look at what the experts are saying, most agree with me.


Scouting for a Division II college and playing in college qualifies you so much more over everyone else on this board, why? Dickie V has a hell of a lot more qualifications than you, and he has no ****in clue what he's talking about. He would've taken Chris Duhon over Shaun Livingston.


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## Richie Rich (May 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> 
> 
> Scouting for a Division II college and playing in college qualifies you so much more over everyone else on this board, why? Dickie V has a hell of a lot more qualifications than you, and he has no ****in clue what he's talking about. He would've taken Chris Duhon over Shaun Livingston.



Good call.


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## lesanecrooks7 (Jun 5, 2003)

Don't reply to edits please. ---agoo


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## Richie Rich (May 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>lesanecrooks7</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> PWNED!!!!



*OWNED?


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Richie Rich</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> *OWNED?


Or PWNED, it's commonly used...mostly because many people used to misspell owned...so it became pwned too.


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## whiterhino (Jun 15, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>SamIam</b>!
> Whiterhino, I am a little late in replying. But Sergei Monya, Dorell Wright and Jameer Nelson were all taken before 24th pick. Sorry to ruin your argument with facts.


No Sam, sorry to ruin YOUR ARGUMENT WITH THE FACTS, I NEVER mentioned those players, go back and READ...I NEVER SAID anything about us drafting them at 24 & 25...if you don't know how to READ, don't bug me!!!!:upset: :upset: :upset: :upset: :upset:


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## whiterhino (Jun 15, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>SamIam</b>!
> Aquatacious, the following is what Whiterhino said:
> 
> "You obviously didn't read my post too well, NONE of the players I listed were taken when we picked at 24 & 25 so no point is MOOT!"
> ...


WRONG SAM, READ THE POST! :upset: :upset: :upset: Do you have comprehension issues!!!??? In ONE post I said we could have drafted Vujacic, Verejo, Ramos, Harrison, Udrih instead of stupid West & Allen. In another post I said that the Celts had West and Allen ranked above guys like Monia, Wright, Nelson, Harris, etc.....Until you learn how to read and understand what you read, don't reply to my posts!!!!:sour:


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## whiterhino (Jun 15, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> 
> 
> Scouting for a Division II college and playing in college qualifies you so much more over everyone else on this board, why? Dickie V has a hell of a lot more qualifications than you, and he has no ****in clue what he's talking about. He would've taken Chris Duhon over Shaun Livingston.


Did I say that it made me an expert, no, I didn't, I said I know what I'm talking about, yes, because I have scouting experience unlike most on this board. I stated RIGHT IN MY POST that it was not the same as the NBA. If you want to live in fantasy land and think that Delonte West is going to be a good NBA player go right ahead....he won't be and I'll be laughing at you later but go ahead and think whatever you want. You were probably one of the people that was mad last year that Troy Bell & Dahntey Jones weren't really our picks:uhoh:


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## SamIam (Jun 1, 2004)

Whiterhino I know how to read. You criticized the Celtics because they say that West and Allen were rated high on their board. I said the point was moot because nearly all the players you had rated higher were already drafted. Whatever spin they use after the draft is irrelevant. Who would you have wanted them to draft? All the players you say were better than Allen and West were drafted. So, after the draft what do you want them to say - oh West and Allen stink but that was all that was left.

Then you replied that they were not taken at 24 or 25 in a reply to my post.

The bottom line is that the Celtics decided to draft older more experienced players at a point in the draft where the majority of players already drafted were "potential players". That strategy worked for Cleveland 2 years ago with Boozer and for Dallas last year with Josh Howard.

Let's face it. In the past 30 years there have probably been 7-8 players drafted at those spots who actually eked out a career in the NBA. If West and Allen never play you can't even call them "busts". For every Tony Parker there have been a dozen Joe Fortes taken there. This year it actually made for sense to take a flyer on a college Junior or Senior than on a foriegner/high school kid at 24-5 because of how the previous 23 picks played out.

And please, don't take yourself so seriously.


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## whiterhino (Jun 15, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>SamIam</b>!
> Whiterhino I know how to read. You criticized the Celtics because they say that West and Allen were rated high on their board. I said the point was moot because nearly all the players you had rated higher were already drafted. Whatever spin they use after the draft is irrelevant. Who would you have wanted them to draft? All the players you say were better than Allen and West were drafted. So, after the draft what do you want them to say - oh West and Allen stink but that was all that was left.
> 
> Then you replied that they were not taken at 24 or 25 in a reply to my post.
> ...


You are the one taking yourself so seriously because you are so busy making your point you don't READ what I said. I've already told you about 10 times I would have MUCH RATHER seen them take Udrih, Verejo, Vujacic, Ramos, Harrison etc...yet you continuosly post "who would you have rather them have taken".  Hmmmm, lets see, our needs are PG and Big Men so lets take to tweener SG's when PG's and Big Men with higher rankings are still on the board. Give me a break. If you don't get it, I'm done trying to get you to see....the Celtics are going to be GOD AWFUL this year now barring a major trade coup....Maybe you are ok with that but I'm not, I bleed green and I want them to be great again.......they wasted another 2 first round picks, that puts them farther behind any of the guys I listed above would have fit better and Vujacic and Verejo may have contributed right away.:upset:


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## SamIam (Jun 1, 2004)

You may be right but I don't think so. I think Varejo is a limited talent. I know Allen took Oklahoma state to final 4 and I think West was the best player on his team that nearly went to final 4. I would rather have 2 guys who can play than big men who cannot or will not in case of Harrison.


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## lanigan34 (Dec 27, 2002)

Think a trade with the Knicks, who wanted one of the C's first rounders for a first next year wouldve been a better idea than Tony Allen. If that didnt happen, going Euro ( Udrih, Verejo, orVujacic) would have been the next best available option. Obviously, without any major trades (Seattle?) were looking at another long bball season in Boston.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

bump


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## whiterhino (Jun 15, 2003)

My opinion hasn't changed on West or even Allen at this point, I still would have rather had Beno Udrih than either of them


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