# Ray Allen on Kobe



## Kodo20022001 (Sep 28, 2004)

> "He's going to be very selfish," Allen said of Bryant, who scored 15 of his team's first 20 points and had 35 points in Tuesday's loss. "And he feels like he needs to show this league and the people in this country that he is better without Shaq. He can win championships without Shaq. So offensively, he's going to jump out and say, 'I can average 30 points. I can still carry the load on this team.'







> "If Kobe doesn't see he needs two and a half good players to be a legitimate playoff contender or win a championship in about a year or two he'll be calling out to Jerry Buss that 'We need some help in here,' or 'Trade me,' " Allen said. "And we'll all be saying, 'I told you so,' when he says that."




I came across this article. It's one thing when Phil and Shaq are saying negative things about Kobe, but Ray Allen? I've never heard him say anything negative towards anybody.

Here's the entire article====http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/basketball/195189_sonx14.html


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

Remember when Bowen locked him up in a regular season game last year? He went on a personal vendetta against the guy after that. That's all Ray Ray is about, whining. Heck, he claimed he was worth over $100M this summer during contract negotiations with the Sonics. $100M? :laugh:


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## LuckyAC (Aug 12, 2004)

He is always trashing Tim Thomas, but then, everybody does that.


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## Duece Duece (Mar 28, 2003)

*Ray Allen is a Chump.*

This guy aint nothin but a whiny little *****. He talks like he's done somethin noteworthy in this league besides winning one three point shooting contest. Who the hell do he think he is? I don't think this clown has ever even made a All NBA second team. He aint never led a team anywhere, but he has the audacity to talk about what Kobe will or won't do? 


He's needs to worry about his own NBA career instead of Kobe's. He mad cause Kobe embarrassed his soft *** last night. He just can't accept the fact that he was picked higher than Kobe and kobe turned out to be the better player.


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## Johnny Mac (May 6, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>EHL</b>!
> Remember when Bowen locked him up in a regular season game last year? He went on a personal vendetta against the guy after that. That's all Ray Ray is about, whining. Heck, he claimed he was worth over $100M this summer during contract negotiations with the Sonics. $100M? :laugh:


Ray said that Bowen plays too aggressive and pushes, do you disagree with that? I kind of got the impression in the thread about the rule change that you probably thought Bowen gets away with too much. Maybe not though. 

Anyways, from what I saw, Ray may be partially right. Kobe looked to shoot first and foremost, there wasn't a lot of on court leadership going on. He was incredibly efficient as a scorer against the Sonics, so its all nice and good right now, but on off-nights that may change. I've been impressed with what I've read about Kobes off the court leadership. From welcoming guys, to becoming more vocal, to becoming less of a "loner" to providing a great example as far as work ethic. Kobes done those things. However, I still have my doubts about his mentality and/or approach *on* the court. 

Maybe he knew he could score at will (and he did) and on nights he can't score at will (Sonics have horrible defense) he will look to be more versatile and create for others? Who knows. One pre-season game is virtually meaningless, which is why Jesus Shuttlesworth looks like an *** here, but what he is saying may not be entirely wrong. I think Kobe has a ways to go as far as being a leader, but he is a quick learner, so who knows.


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Johnny Mac</b>!
> 
> 
> Ray said that Bowen plays too aggressive and pushes, do you disagree with that? I kind of got the impression in the thread about the rule change that you probably thought Bowen gets away with too much. Maybe not though.


Yes, Bowen slaps and does get away with a bit too much contact IMO. But that's not what Ray Ray said. He called Bowen "dirty", and said that's not how you're supposed to play defense, or some such nonsense. 



> Anyways, from what I saw, Ray may be partially right. Kobe looked to shoot first and foremost, there wasn't a lot of on court leadership going on. He was incredibly efficient as a scorer against the Sonics, so its all nice and good right now, but on off-nights that may change. I've been impressed with what I've read about Kobes off the court leadership. From welcoming guys, to becoming more vocal, to becoming less of a "loner" to providing a great example as far as work ethic. Kobes done those things. However, I still have my doubts about his mentality and/or approach *on* the court.


Yeah, I have my doubts about his approach to the game on the court as well, now that he's not playing with a guy like Shaq. But it's only *preseason*, you can't really conclude how Kobe is going to play the team game quite yet. That'll take several weeks/months. That said, Kobe really didn't handle the ball that much in the Sonics game, he just hoisted shots. And only 21 of them, which is just a little above his average.



> Maybe he knew he could score at will (and he did) and on nights he can't score at will (Sonics have horrible defense) he will look to be more versatile and create for others? Who knows. One pre-season game is virtually meaningless, which is why Jesus Shuttlesworth looks like an *** here, but what he is saying may not be entirely wrong. I think Kobe has a ways to go as far as being a leader, but he is a quick learner, so who knows.


Yeah, I think Kobe has a ways to go too. I expect him to transform his game this season. He needs to pick Magic's brain. He really needs to make a concerted effort to make everyone better. 

That said, Jordan couldn't lead this team to the title this season, so I don't expect much in the playoffs.


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## John (Jun 9, 2002)

oh LMAO at Ray Allen.

Vince Carter was hurted by Bowen because Bowen couldnt shut Carter down..

Please note, there were few plays Carter didnt use screens or anything to get by Bowen for layups and jumpers in the game Carter weas hurt.

lol at Allen mentioned Bowen was pushing and fuxking becaise we know that Ray Allen was just a second tier player.

EHL, dont be so harash, u dont need to bring the $100 mil thing to mock at Ray, we all know Allen is just another second tier gets to put up star numbers on a team that he has no pressure to carry and was always got to score in the flow.


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## JazzMan (Feb 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>John</b>!
> oh LMAO at Ray Allen.
> 
> Vince Carter was hurted by Bowen because Bowen couldnt shut Carter down..
> ...


LOL. Ray Allen is a true surface player.


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## Wilt_The_Stilt (Jun 7, 2002)

Ray Allen also said that he can do everything Kobe can. He even said Tim Thomas is better than Kobe.


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## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

Wow. Open your eyes people. Did you even read the article? Ray Allen isn't saying anything that anybody else isn't saying.

The thread creator just picked out the "juiciest" parts. The entire article has Ray emphasizing "*if*". He's not necessarily making any judgements. He's asking rhetorical questions. He's saying that Kobe needs to incorporate his teammates for the Lakers to be successful, which is what *everybody is saying.*



> "I think the point production is not going to be so much what people are going to look at because (Tracy) McGrady did it in Orlando, Allen (Iverson) did it in Philly. Can you win a championship? *I think that's the question. Carrying guys on your back and making everybody better.*"





> Can Bryant do that?
> 
> "*He has the talent, he can do it*," Allen said. "*But is his attitude* going to allow him to take a back seat and let Lamar Odom shine and let Caron Butler have his nights and bring those big guys along with him?"





> *Allen said Bryant's ability and willingness to incorporate others will be the gauge for the Lakers' success.* Bryant was re-signed for seven years at more than $130 million this summer.
> 
> "*If* Kobe doesn't see he needs two and a half good players to be a legitimate playoff contender or win a championship in about a year or two he'll be calling out to Jerry Buss that 'We need some help in here,' or 'Trade me,' " Allen said. "And we'll all be saying, 'I told you so,' when he says that."





> Butler, who like Allen attended UConn, is in his third year in the league.
> 
> "His successes now is going to be based on *if* Kobe allows him to eat," Allen said of Butler. "*If* Kobe allows him to sit at the dinner table with him,


Good job taking quotes out of context though. Not to mention Allen was *directly asked* what he thinks of Kobe and the new-look Lakers, after a single pre-season game, so it's not like he just came out of the blue and said this. They also have a little rivalry on the court going, which is obvious to anyone who isn't Stevie Wonder, so a little bit of smacktalk isn't really a big deal. Particularly not when Kobe talks **** to everyone on the court, and especially not when he's been practically the epitomy of selfishness his entire career thus far.


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## ssmokinjoe (Jul 5, 2003)

I think Ray Allen is making his observations without any prejudice towards Kobe. He's wondering out loud what alot of other people are wondering. And you can take what he said as ****-talking on his part, or you can take it as his indirect advice to Kobe.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

:laugh: 

Anybody who says anything about Kobe is just a whiny chump around here. Ever think that maybe what they are saying might just be true?


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>JNice</b>!
> :laugh:
> 
> Anybody who says anything about Kobe is just a whiny chump around here. Ever think that maybe what they are saying might just be true?


That's really not even the point. You can say true things and still be a whiner.


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

> Allen said Bryant's ability and willingness to incorporate others will be the gauge for the Lakers' success. Bryant was re-signed for seven years at more than $130 million this summer.
> 
> "If Kobe doesn't see he needs two and a half good players to be a legitimate playoff contender or win a championship in about a year or two he'll be calling out to Jerry Buss that 'We need some help in here,' or 'Trade me,' " Allen said. "And we'll all be saying, 'I told you so,' when he says that."


The problem most have with this is it is Ray Allen. Ray who *DID* have two and half in Milwuakee and couldn't do squat. I understand people saying Kobe might need to take a backseat to Shaq, but to suggest that Kobe needs to take a backseat to Lamar Odom and Caron Butler is sheer ignorance. I never heard any other superstar being asked to take a backseat to players who are barely All Star level or worse.


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## IV (Jul 16, 2002)

All of Ray's comments are speculation. He doesn't know how Kobe will react once this or that happens, he's basically just running his mouth. Worth :twocents:


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## Pan Mengtu (Jun 18, 2004)

Ray is completely right. Kobe did not play team basketball in the sonics game. The team didn't play team basketball during the sonics game. A bunch of ad hominems against the speaker isn't going to change that.

Not one person has tried to refute a single statement made by ray allen. This means that he's either right, and thus can only be refuted by a resort to personal attacks, or there is just a lot of bad logic floating around.


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Pan Mengtu</b>!
> Ray is completely right. Kobe did not play team basketball in the sonics game. The team didn't play team basketball during the sonics game. A bunch of ad hominems against the speaker isn't going to change that.
> 
> Not one person has tried to refute a single statement made by ray allen. This means that he's either right, and thus can only be refuted by a resort to personal attacks, or there is just a lot of bad logic floating around.


Well other than the selfish comment, everything he said was based on his opinion of the future of Kobe so it will be refuted as the season progresses.


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## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

I'm still wondering how one player giving his opinion on another player and that player's team after being *directly questioned* about them by reporters can possibly be construed as "whining".

And for that matter, what did Ray even *say* that could be construed as whining? He was simply giving his opinion after being asked to do so.

I don't quite follow the logic.


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## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>MemphisX</b>!
> 
> 
> Well other than the selfish comment, everything he said was based on his opinion of the future of Kobe so it will be refuted as the season progresses.


Look carefully at what Ray Allen said in that paragraph. He elaborates on what he means by "selfish".



> "He's going to be very selfish," Allen said of Bryant, who scored 15 of his team's first 20 points and had 35 points in Tuesday's loss. "And he feels like he needs to *show this league and the people in this country that he is better without Shaq.* He can win championships without Shaq. *So offensively, he's going to jump out and say, 'I can average 30 points. I can still carry the load on this team.'*


What I bolded there. That's what Ray Allen was referring to when he said Kobe was going to be selfish. He wasn't necessarily referring to him being selfish on the court, as in not passing to teammates and being a ballhog. If he meant that, why would he go on to ask rhetorical questions and continually say "if Kobe does this and that, then blah blah" and "Kobe has to do this and that or yadda yadda"? If he actually meant that Kobe was going to be selfish (as we think of selfish), then he wouldn't have done that. He would have flat-out said something like: "Well, Kobe is going to be very selfish and not get his teammates involved." He never said anything close to that. He meant that Kobe is going to be selfish when it comes to proving himself to the world that he can carry a team without Shaq.

And I don't see any reason to doubt Ray's words. You know that Kobe is pissed at all his critics who claim that he can't do much without Shaq. You know that. Ray was referring to him scoring the majority of his team's points, ala Iverson and T-Mac, who he goes on to exemplify later. Nothing to get all worked up about.


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## 22ryno (Mar 17, 2003)

It's not that what he is saying isn't true but he needs to be more focussed on his own team. He needs to worry about making the playoffs and who is going to play point guard not Kobe. This good news for Lakers fans though because expect Kobe to hit him up for 40 possibly 50 in a Laker win over Seattle this season.


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## Ryoga (Aug 31, 2002)

It's incredible how people overeact when someone seems to somehow "diss" their favorite player...

*Wake up!*

Allen analysis is totally correct, he didn't say any wrong word!
He explained clearly, motivating every sentence, what are going to be Kobe's challenges in the next years and what he thinks will happen if he faila to accomplish them.

Is it that hard to understand the difference between saying "Kobe is not a team player" and "Kobe will have to be a team player"?


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

I would scoff at this as no big deal (which it is IMO), if it didn't come from Ray Allen. Make no mistake Ray Allen is jealous of Kobe Bryant. 

You see it everytime the two meet up in a game. Ray tries to prove he is better than Kobe. He'll do it again this year, but the Lakers will still be better than the Sonics and then Ray will leave them and go somewhere else and still fail.


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## 22ryno (Mar 17, 2003)

I don't think it was a diss on Kobe but something that didn't need to be said by of all people Ray Allen. He has enough to worry about in Seattle. If he was asked questions about Kobe there are professional ways to get around them.


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## Volcom (Mar 28, 2004)

*Re: Ray Allen is a Chump.*



> Originally posted by <b>Duece Duece</b>!
> This guy aint nothin but a whiny little *****. He talks like he's done somethin noteworthy in this league besides winning one three point shooting contest. Who the hell do he think he is? I don't think this clown has ever even made a All NBA second team. *He aint never led a team anywhere*, but he has the audacity to talk about what Kobe will or won't do?


Didn't he lead the Bucks to the Eastern Conference Finals with just Sam Cassell (fair enough) and Glen Robinson sour: ) for a supporting cast???


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## crimsonice (Feb 27, 2003)

John, I couldn't agree with you more.



> Originally posted by <b>John</b>!
> oh LMAO at Ray Allen.
> 
> Vince Carter was hurted by Bowen because Bowen couldnt shut Carter down..
> ...


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## jc76ers (Feb 4, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>EHL</b>!
> Remember when Bowen locked him up in a regular season game last year? He went on a personal vendetta against the guy after that. That's all Ray Ray is about, whining. Heck, he claimed he was worth over $100M this summer during contract negotiations with the Sonics. $100M? :laugh:


this shows you really do not know basketball or the nba....allen is a classic stand-up guy...ask anyone about this...

and have you forgotten that kobe wanted a $200 million contract before the lockout occurred? gee.....you've been giving shaq crap for his salary demands, and now allen for this, but for kobe....you are willling to give him garnett type money...hahahaha....talk about illogical and selective reasonings!!

i'm not saying ray necessarily deserves $100M but you are being so inconsistent and illogical with your reasonings in favor of kobe....just like the lakers did...and it gives off a extremely bad vibe to everyone....


and what the hell does bruce bowen gotta do with kobe and ray??? just because kobe came back and had a good game against bowen is reason for ray to shudder in fear??? 

didn't kobe say that he will come back and win the title the year spurs beat them and kobe cried on national TV?? gee....he didn't make true on his words did he? in fact, he completelly stunk up the joint when the team really needed him....so no....i don't think ray is losing any sleep over this....


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## John (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>crimsonice</b>!
> John, I couldn't agree with you more.


THX, why only post 166th time?

you were here more than a year!


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## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> I would scoff at this as no big deal (which it is IMO), if it didn't come from Ray Allen. Make no mistake Ray Allen is jealous of Kobe Bryant.
> 
> You see it everytime the two meet up in a game. Ray tries to prove he is better than Kobe. He'll do it again this year, but the Lakers will still be better than the Sonics and then Ray will leave them and go somewhere else and still fail.


How do you know that? because Ray always puts up big numbers against the Lakers? That constitutes Ray being "jealous" of Kobe?

Maybe he just views Kobe as a great challenge? They *both* go at each other on the court. This isn't all one-sided, like Ray tries really hard and Kobe just plays normally. Kobe tries hard against Ray, too. Ray has gotten the better of Kobe on the court several times, and vice versa.

And whoever thinks Vince Carter is better than Ray Allen needs a reality check.


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## Wilt_The_Stilt (Jun 7, 2002)

Allen 10-22 fg's
Kobe 13-21 fg's

Who's more selfish?


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## John (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Spriggan</b>!
> And whoever thinks Vince Carter is better than Ray Allen needs a reality check.


Why dont just quote on me then to say "whoever"?
What? Are you afraid of the greatest poster on basketballboard of all time?

Come on, break the game down, challenge me? Dont just say Ray Allen is better than Vince Carter! Say more, give details! Instruct the NBA coaching defensive plans for us here?


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## Ravnos (Aug 10, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Wilt_The_Stilt</b>!
> Allen 10-22 fg's
> Kobe 13-21 fg's
> 
> Who's more selfish?


Ray took 22 shots and the Sonics as a team took 77 shots.

Kobe took 21 shots and the Lakers as a team took 59 shots.

Ray took 28.5% of his team's shots.

Kobe took 35.6% of his team's shots.

Please respond, Wilt_The_Stilt. I want to hear what you have to say to this.


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## bballlife (Oct 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jc76ers</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> and have you forgotten that kobe wanted a $200 million contract before the lockout occurred?



Will you quit pushing the hearsay. The only time I ever heard anything of this was when somebody said that if KG got 126 million, Kobe would get 200 million. Kobe was not demanding anything, that is simply the way the market was heading, of course the CBA changed that.

Let me clear this Ray Allen thing up too. Allen is clearly jealous of Kobe like HKF said, he has been embarrassed by Kobe in these one on one matchups more than one time. This is two competitive guys going at each other, and Allen not recognizing he is in over his head.

Allen was right about Bowen though, Bowen is a very dirty player. In the last few years I have caught Bowen doing the dirtiest move in basketball on opposing guards, sliding his foot under jump shooters, hoping they come down on it. He has done this against Kobe, Allen and Carter to name a few. If you remember last season, he took Vince out for a little while, Vince had that air cast on. Well Allen is not the only one to complain about Bowen, Carter in an interview stated that Bowen did it on purpose, and he was right.


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## bballlife (Oct 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Ravnos</b>!
> 
> 
> Ray took 22 shots and the Sonics as a team took 77 shots.
> ...



Its this new thing the NBA is trying called a preseason game.

Seriously though, several reasons, one being the Lakers had 9 more turnovers.


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## c_dog (Sep 15, 2002)

wow, what's with all the hate against Ray Ray? This guy is not a whiner, not at all. you don't see him going after refs after a bad call, you dont' see him complain about anything. he's a classy guy, and we should have more players like him. he's arguably the *most mature* player in the NBA. he's unselfish, and he doesn't trash talk, or do any of the childish things that NBA stars tend to do nowadays(demanding trades, whining about team mates, playying time, etc).

and t-mac has never gone past the 1st round of the playoffs, and he's considered a top 5 player. why is a player such as ray ray who's made appearance in the ECF, and almost made it to the finals, a *failure*? he's certainly done as much as other star players have done, if not more. Only players who have "done something"(win championship) are Shaq, Kobe, and Duncan. KG has never won a championship, i suppose he's a *failre* too huh? plz. 

there's nothing wrong with what he said, he's right, and it's not like he was trashing kobe. he was asked a question, is that so hard to understand??

seriously, some of the posters are filled with nothing but hate for certain players. and just cuz someone gave their comment about kobe(a non-positive one) all of a sudden he's a whiner/failure eh? nice.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

I should clear up this Ray Allen is jealous of Kobe issue. Ray actually believes he is just as good as Kobe (as he does with T-Mac), when as an individual player he just isn't. 

He probably feels like he could have won with Shaq too, but that's only because Ray is the good little soldier boy, but I have no doubt that the Blazers (2000) and Kings (2002), beat the Lakers with Ray Allen instead of Kobe, because Allen is soft.


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## shobe42 (Jun 21, 2002)

u know what?? as a kobe fan... i have to say that Ray Allen could be right...

I see a scary possibilty that Kobe scores 30 or 35 ppg and is the best player in the league but cant help is team win worth a damn...

and in two or three years be in the TMAC situation... 

Kobe can be better than that though and i hope he plays as a great leader and this team excells together.


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## IV (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>shobe42</b>!
> u know what?? as a kobe fan... i have to say that Ray Allen could be right...
> 
> I see a scary possibilty that Kobe scores 30 or 35 ppg and is the best player in the league but cant help is team win worth a damn...
> ...


The difference is Kobe plays for the Lakers, and the lakers win. They might have a down year, that could happen, but three years from now this team will become a perennial title contender, history says so. Plus, Kobe has something Tmac doesn't and that's championship experience, he's been there so he'll know how to motivate and lead his teammates.


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## shobe42 (Jun 21, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>IV</b>!
> 
> 
> The difference is Kobe plays for the Lakers, and the lakers win. They might have a down year, that could happen, but three years from now this team will become a perennial title contender, history says so. Plus, Kobe has something Tmac doesn't and that's championship experience, he's been there so he'll know how to motivate and lead his teammates.


i hope so and think u'll be right....

but Ray Allen didn't make some off the wall, goofy dare I say "Shaq comment"

what ray says makes some sense


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## KokoTheMonkey (Aug 4, 2003)

Here are some random thought of mine on the topic of the thread, and some of the statements made inside the thread:


- I wouldn't hold it against Ray Allen for whining about Bruce Bowen, since everyone and their grandmother has whined like *****es about Bowen's defense. For some reason, Bowen gets to bend the rules defensively, thus earning him the reputation of being dirty.


- In another thread about Cuban being fined, I called him a whiny *******, and everyone else in the thread went on to praise Cuban for speaking his mind. I guess the same concept applies here. For some reason, if you speak your mind, you are not considered whiny. 


- Ray Allen needs to worry about himself. When the Sonics are once again sitting at home during the playoffs, everyone will point to Ray Ray and say "That's why you aren't worth anything near $100 mill"


- As EHL said, it's a freakin pre-season game. If Kobe is hurling 20+ shots and leading his team to losses, then it would be legit to call out the guy for being selfish.


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## ssmokinjoe (Jul 5, 2003)

If you all could just look past your Ray-Allen-hating and read exactly what he said you'll see that what he said makes alot of sense. Kobe is in a pressure position to prove that he can win without Shaq. It's very logical to think that Kobe might feel that he would have to be a 30+ ppg scorer to make up for the absence of the big guy. If he does believe in this strategy then that could spell disaster for the Lakers as T-Mac proved with the Magic last season. (PLeaSe dont ignore all the ifs and mights in this statement!)

That's all he's saying. It's basically something that any analyst of the game could come up with without hatred, jealousy, or whining. 

"But it's Ray Allen! But it's Ray Allen!" 
"He's a whiner." "He's jealous."
"He thinks he's better than Kobe."
"He thinks he's as good as Kobe but he's not."

He disects the situation like a knowlegable pro. Then you guys disect his statements like gossipy old women.

Get over yourselves.


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## Duece Duece (Mar 28, 2003)

Ray Allen comes off to me like he done accomplished a whole lot in this league. Who is he to just come and *ASSUME* what Kobe will or won't do. Seriously, who the **** do he think he is? It's not like he's a Hall Of Famer or anything talkin. He needs to defer to Rashard Lewis, and Antonio Daniels if he wanna talk like that. He haven't led Seattle anywhere. He would be the one that will be demanding a trade before Kobe does. He'll be on his third team in nine years, while Kobe will be still with his same team like it has been for nine years. You can bet on that.


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## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>John</b>!
> 
> 
> Why dont just quote on me then to say "whoever"?
> What? Are you afraid of the greatest poster on basketballboard of all time?


LMAO!

Actually, I am.



> Come on, break the game down, challenge me? Dont just say Ray Allen is better than Vince Carter! Say more, give details! Instruct the NBA coaching defensive plans for us here?


Okay, John.

Ray Allen is superior to Vince Carter because Vince Carter is inferior to Ray Allen.

Behold.... ballscience.

What can John the BBB.Net MVP do against the ballscience?

*What can he do?*

Break it down, baby.


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## Sánchez AF (Aug 10, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Kodo20022001</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm not a big Ray fan but i'm agree with him thats what Kobe will do take 35 shots p/g and score as much as he can but not a true team anymore


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## Sánchez AF (Aug 10, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Spriggan</b>!
> 
> 
> LMAO!
> ...


What the hell this have to do with the thread.


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## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> I should clear up this Ray Allen is jealous of Kobe issue. Ray actually believes he is just as good as Kobe (as he does with T-Mac), when as an individual player he just isn't.


And? Why isn't he allowed to be self-confident? So what if he thinks he's as good as them? Why would that make him jealous? That's not logical.

If Ray Allen believes he's just as good, why be jealous? Because he doesn't get as much attention? He's only played for small-market teams, and he knows it. Besides, he's pretty much a perennial all-star, and he got some pretty good fame from He Got Game. I strongly doubt Ray Allen is the jealous type.



> He *probably* feels like he could have won with Shaq too, but that's only because Ray is the good little soldier boy, but I have no doubt that the Blazers (2000) and Kings (2002), beat the Lakers with Ray Allen instead of Kobe, because Allen is soft.


"Probably"? And Kobe probably knits stockings in his spare time. Why make such blind assumptions? And even if that were true, do you really believe Ray is the only star SG who believes he could have won with Shaq?

Ray is the "good little soldier boy"? Why? Because he's a team player? Because he isn't selfish? What a ridiculous thing to say, really. Good little soldier boy. wtf?

And what exactly makes Allen soft? The fact that, until these last couple years, he's barely missed any games? I don't even think he missed a *single* game his first 5 seasons or so, if memory serves. Maybe six seasons.

Wait... is it that he doesn't tend to slash as much as Kobe and T-Mac, or a couple other star 2 guards? First of all, he's not in the same class as Kobe/T-Mac are when it comes to slashing. Secondly, he's a superior shooter to both, so why not shoot lights out? 

Or is it because you read it on his player profile on hoopshype.net?

Learn to love Jesus, newmessiah. Learn to love him.


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## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

My question is why is he even speculating on Kobe in the 1st place he seems to have alot to worry about with the Sorry Sonics. 

Kobe took lots of shots because the team had alot of players out. Is he saying that because of that game. 

Kobe will probably lead the league in scoring, and Kobe has titles the thinking by some people that Kobe somehow has no concept of what winning means is ridiculous. 

Kobe's not a fool, he's not stupid enough to think he can be people by himself hell he lost with Shaq he knows it takes alot to win a title. 

Funny that a player who's never won a title would tell Kobe what it takes to win and Kobe has 3 rings. 

Kobe understands how hard things are gonna be and he's up for the challenge.


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## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>SpeakerBoxxX</b>!
> 
> 
> What the hell this have to do with the thread.


You may want to read back and look at where the name "Vince Carter" first pops up.

That post was my attempt not to derail this thread into Ray Allen vs Vince Carter.

Thanks.


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## BallBiologist (Mar 29, 2003)

the thing you have to realize is that 1 player can't win games.. ITs a team effort.


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## IV (Jul 16, 2002)

*yeah son!*



> Originally posted by <b>courtside</b>!
> the thing you have to realize is that 1 player can't win games.. ITs a team effort.


Basketball science 101?


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jazzy1</b>!
> My question is why is he even speculating on Kobe in the 1st place he seems to have alot to worry about with the Sorry Sonics.


The Sorry Sonics beat Kobe's Lakers. 

The Sonics are on the same tier of teams as the Lakers this year. They're going to be in that bottom block of teams trying to make the playoffs.

One major injury either way and either team could be looking up at the other.

Who knew so many people had a grudge against Ray Allen?
Or maybe Kobe fans are redirecting their pent up rage about Phil and Shaq dissing Kobe?:uhoh:


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## IV (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>futuristxen</b>!
> 
> 
> The Sorry Sonics beat Kobe's Lakers.


pre...... well you know the rest.



> Who knew so many people had a grudge against Ray Allen?
> Or maybe Kobe fans are redirecting their pent up rage about Phil and Shaq dissing Kobe?:uhoh:


Kobe's taken the high road, the pent up rage seems to be coming from those who have nothing better to do than write books about Kobe, or speak about him to the media everytime he gets a chance.


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## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

I'm with futur. Why all the hate against Ray Ray all of a sudden?

This board has always seemed to love Ray. Majority voted him the 3rd best SG, and most seem to think he's a top 15 overall player.

He gives his opinion on Kobe to the media after being directly questioned, and now he's Jerry Freaking Stackhouse?

Give it a rest.


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## Scinos (Jun 10, 2003)

Wow, never realised there was so much hate for Ray Allen here. He makes some comments on Kobe and the Lakers, and everyone has to try and drag him through the mud with this Bowen, $100 mill, he can't win games, jealous of Kobe crap. 

There is definitely a rivalry between the two. I'm not sure how it started, but it's been there ever since Ray came to Seattle. But, no one can say with any proof that it's Ray being jealous of Kobe. Also, to say that Kobe gets the better of the match up every time they play is wrong, and we can drag up boxscores if you don't believe it.

As for his coments, there's a pretty good track record of all-star guards without a very good bigman on their teams not going anywhere. Carter, McGrady, Allen, Redd...etc. They might make the playoffs with a good season, but they are not even close to title teams without a good supporting cast and a bigman. What makes people think that Kobe can lead the Lakers anywhere with an average-at-best frontcourt ?


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>IV</b>!
> 
> 
> pre...... well you know the rest.
> ...


Haha. Kobe taking the high road? Was Kobe taking the High Road when he dropped Shaq's name to the police for no reason? Was Kobe taking the high road when he got Phil fired and Shaq traded? Kobe has no ground to stand on, high or low. That's why he doesn't say anything. He just has to wait for this to blow over. Anything he says is only going to make it worse for him.

And when you look at the two teams, the Sonics have a very similiar level team to the Lakers. If Collison produces they might even be better. The Sonics are a team that people are really underrating right now. They are capable of being a pretty high powered team.

Suns
Lakers
Blazers
Jazz
Sonics
Clippers

Are all going to be battling with each other for the lower seeds.


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## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

Damn, futuristxen just opened a can of worms with that last post. At least this thread may hopefully move away from Ray Allen bashing now.

I ain't gettin involved in the Kobe stuff. Been there done that.


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## IV (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>futuristxen</b>!
> 
> 
> Haha. Kobe taking the high road? Was Kobe taking the High Road when he dropped Shaq's name to the police for no reason? Was Kobe taking the high road when he got Phil fired and Shaq traded? Kobe has no ground to stand on, high or low. That's why he doesn't say anything. He just has to wait for this to blow over. Anything he says is only going to make it worse for him.


Everything you just mentioned is speculation. All of it. :laugh:
Kobe never said he told the cops those things. The cops said that.
It is Shaq's opinion that Kobe got him traded, when we all know that Shaq publically demanded to be traded.
It is also Phil's opinion that Kobe got him fired when we all know that Phil demanded a contract extension that would have made the lakers go broke for years, not to mention his on admissions in his new book, about him not wanting to coach Kobe any longer.

If you valued the facts instead of speculation you'd see Kobe is taking the high road.



> And when you look at the two teams, the Sonics have a very similiar level team to the Lakers. If Collison produces they might even be better. The Sonics are a team that people are really underrating right now. They are capable of being a pretty high powered team.
> 
> Suns
> Lakers
> ...


More opinions? No facts.


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## jc76ers (Feb 4, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Spriggan</b>!
> I'm with futur. Why all the hate against Ray Ray all of a sudden?
> 
> This board has always seemed to love Ray. Majority voted him the 3rd best SG, and most seem to think he's a top 15 overall player.
> ...



theres hate against ray allen because he said something that COULD BE NEGATIVE against kobe. anytime a player/poster/commentator says anything negative about boy kobe, kobe-lovers chastise, ridicule, or discredit the comments. They are the most SENSITIVE people in the world when it comes to their hero kobe. any critique of kobe and they go ballistic. its clearly evident on this board, and in particular in this thread in the past, present, and undoubtedly the future as well.


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## jc76ers (Feb 4, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>IV</b>!
> 
> 
> Everything you just mentioned is speculation. All of it. :laugh:
> ...


kobe did tell the cops. its recorded in the documents isn't it?

there's no denying that shaq wanted to be traded, BUT ONLY AFTER lakers committed to kobe. we'll see how wise that decision is this year. i bet they will regret it.

phils contract situation has nothing to do with lakers not signing him. for crying out loud, they were basically gonna give coach K an open blank check as the alternative. anyone with the right set of mind would take phil and his 9 tiitles over coach K anyday.
its evident that phil and kobe disagreed on a lot of issues and couldn't co-exist anymore. laker management still decided to stick with kobe. they will regret this as well.

kobe, being a team player, could have said 'okay shaq and phil, i will listen to you guys'. but he would rather have this current situation that he is in - where he is the single focal point of the offense and no one can dispute his authority.

by taking that stance, kobe in essence drove shaq and phil out.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>IV</b>!
> 
> 
> Everything you just mentioned is speculation. All of it. :laugh:
> ...


:laugh: Just because you refuse to acknowledge reality doesn't make it not a fact.:laugh: 

Kobe never said he told the cops those things. OF COURSE! Why would he come out and be like, "yeah by the way, in case you don't know..."...NO, we found out through the leaked COURT Documents, and Shaq actually knew about it last summer.

And then we have Phil's book about Kobe's behaviour. Which corroborates what Shaq has said about Kobe.

If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, ****s like a duck, chances are decent that Kobe is a rat. 

I just think it's kind of messed up that Kobe fans are attacking Ray Allen's character at all. But it's entirely understandable.


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## RP McMurphy (Jul 17, 2003)

Mack Ten, is that you?


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

Clearly some people don't remember the history behind Allen and Kobe. Ray Allen once said that Tim Thomas was about as good or better than Kobe. Yes, it's true. He once used the fact that him being picked higher in the 96 draft was proof enough that he's on Kobe's level. The guy has something against Kobe, I don't know why nor is it a big deal.

Yes, some of the things he said were very true. I never refuted that. But it's classic Ray Ray; always opening his mouth about something, you could consider it whining. His whole Bowen vendetta really turned me off; first he mentioned it after the game Bowen locked him down in and then again at the All Star game, and then I believe again after that.

If almost anyone else had said these things about Kobe, I would take it more seriously as constructive criticism, but coming from Ray Ray I'm not so sure. 



> Originally posted by <b>jc76ers</b>!
> 
> 
> this shows you really do not know basketball or the nba....allen is a classic stand-up guy...ask anyone about this...


You started watching the NBA last year, remember?



> and have you forgotten that kobe wanted a $200 million contract before the lockout occurred?


No. Again, you started watching basketball last year, remember?



> gee.....you've been giving shaq crap for his salary demands, and now allen for this, but for kobe....you are willling to give him garnett type money...hahahaha....talk about illogical and selective reasonings!!


Link me anything credible that says Kobe demanded $200M. Remember, a credible article, not The Enquirer. 



> i'm not saying ray necessarily deserves $100M but you are being so inconsistent and illogical with your reasonings in favor of kobe....just like the lakers did...and it gives off a extremely bad vibe to everyone....
> 
> and what the hell does bruce bowen gotta do with kobe and ray??? just because kobe came back and had a good game against bowen is reason for ray to shudder in fear???


Do _you_ even understand anything you write?



> didn't kobe say that he will come back and win the title the year spurs beat them and kobe cried on national TV?? gee....he didn't make true on his words did he? in fact, he completelly stunk up the joint when the team really needed him....so no....i don't think ray is losing any sleep over this....


Again, I fail to see why you're commenting on things you never witnessed, you didn't watch basketball until last season. 



> Mack Ten, is that you?


Yup, the rapper version.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>RP McMurphy</b>!
> Mack Ten, is that you?


Please. I was hating on Kobe LONNNNNNGGGGG before Mack Ten even came to the boards. Don't belittle my accomplishments as a Kobe/Laker hater.

The fact that I'm a sonics fan AND this thread has to do with Kobe...well, what'd you expect me to do?


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>EHL</b>!
> 
> Yup, the rapper version.


Rap music sucks.
Everyone on these boards know I only listen to two things: Vincent Gallo and Serge Gainsbourg. Everything else is dumb and ignorant.


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## jc76ers (Feb 4, 2004)

ehl,



> Clearly some people don't remember the history behind Allen and Kobe. Ray Allen once said that Tim Thomas was about as good or better than Kobe. Yes, it's true. He once used the fact that him being picked higher in the 96 draft was proof enough that he's on Kobe's level. The guy has something against Kobe, I don't know why nor is it a big deal.


link? proof? oh yeah, i forgot...you don't have any....



> If almost anyone else had said these things about Kobe, I would take it more seriously as constructive criticism, but coming from Ray Ray I'm not so sure.




too bad your the minority here.



> You started watching the NBA last year, remember?


is that all you have? strike one...



> No. Again, you started watching basketball last year, remember?


typical condescending behavior from kobe-lovers when theres criticism of their hero......your really running out of things to say aren't you? getting pathetic....strike two!



> Again, I fail to see why you're commenting on things you never witnessed, you didn't watch basketball until last season.


three strikes!! your out!
seriously....just suck up the criticism about your hero....rational laker fans do it....but then again...your thought process history is not very rational...


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## Baron Davis (Apr 14, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>EHL</b>!
> Clearly some people don't remember the history behind Allen and Kobe. Ray Allen once said that Tim Thomas was about as good or better than Kobe. Yes, it's true. He once used the fact that him being picked higher in the 96 draft was proof enough that he's on Kobe's level. The guy has something against Kobe, I don't know why nor is it a big deal.
> 
> Yes, some of the things he said were very true. I never refuted that. But it's classic Ray Ray; always opening his mouth about something, you could consider it whining. His whole Bowen vendetta really turned me off; first he mentioned it after the game Bowen locked him down in and then again at the All Star game, and then I believe again after that.
> ...


 wned


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## Hov (Aug 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>futuristxen</b>!
> Who knew so many people had a grudge against Ray Allen?
> Or maybe Kobe fans are redirecting their pent up rage about Phil and Shaq dissing Kobe?:uhoh:


Please.. So we, as Kobe fans, have no right to talk for Kobe's defense?

I'm pretty sure you'd be defending Lebron if someone said this about him.


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## adhir (Apr 13, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>John</b>!
> oh LMAO at Ray Allen.
> 
> Vince Carter was hurted by Bowen because Bowen couldnt shut Carter down..
> ...


100% true.....


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hov</b>!
> 
> Please.. So we, as Kobe fans, have no right to talk for Kobe's defense?
> 
> I'm pretty sure you'd be defending Lebron if someone said this about him.


I always assumed there was some sort of mutual understanding that I'd say my piece and the kobe fans would just sit there and take it.

Am I wrong here?


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>futuristxen</b>!
> 
> 
> I always assumed there was some sort of mutual understanding that I'd say my piece and the kobe fans would just sit there and take it.
> ...


Only if you promise to take the "LeBron isn't a creative dunker" posts in stride.


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## arcade_rida (Jun 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Spriggan</b>!
> Damn, futuristxen just opened a can of worms with that last post. At least this thread may hopefully move away from Ray Allen bashing now.
> 
> I ain't gettin involved in the Kobe stuff. Been there done that.


Well I agree in what you have to say that Ray Allen wasn't bashing kobe, but in my opinion I think Vince Carter is better then Ray Allen... Now Vince maybe more softer but I think his game is still better then Ray Allen's game....Vince can do some many things and they are both injury prone so for once we cannot use that in our discussions... I wouldn't mind Ray Allen on my team but I would rather Vince Carter over him anyday.


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## sweet_constipation (Jul 3, 2004)

Speaking of Mack Ten..........where is he?
 


Anyway, I agree with EHL.
There seems to be something between Kobe and Allen.
More along of the lines of Allen constantly having Kobe in his head.

Though, he wasn't the only one that claimed Tim Thomas was a better player coming out of the draft.
I remember that draft, and there were several analysts claiming TT would be a better player than Kobe because he could do pretty much the same things, but he was taller.

hindsight's a futha-mucker ain't it.........
:laugh:


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## Hov (Aug 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>sweet_constipation</b>!
> 
> Though, he wasn't the only one that claimed Tim Thomas was a better player coming out of the draft.
> I remember that draft, and there were several analysts claiming TT would be a better player than Kobe because he could do pretty much the same things, but he was taller.
> ...


If I remember correctly, Allen said Thomas was better around the 2000 season. I believe he was trying to get management to re-sign him for more money.


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>sweet_constipation</b>!
> Speaking of Mack Ten..........where is he?
> 
> 
> ...


Actually, Allen's comment about Tim Thomas being a better player was separate from the 96 draft comment. Allen claimed he was on Kobe's level because Allen himself was drafted higher in 96.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

I don't think this is "whining" and I think Allen's comments are probably true but also not all that insightful. A lot of people think Bryant will struggle to be the best team player when he's been yearning to prove that he can carry a team himself.

Whether he rises above that somewhat self-involved motive and plays team ball (much as Pippen did when Jordan retired the first time), we'll all get to see.

As far as Ray Allen considering himself on Bryant's or McGrady's level...he's as much on their level as Drexler was on Jordan's. Many nights he can be as brilliant as either of them, but in the long run he simply doesn't approximate that kind of value.

But I don't hold it against him if he claims to be. That sort of pride and competition is what you need to excel. It's not necessarily jealousy.


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## Pejavlade (Jul 10, 2004)

even Phil Jackson said a psychological war going on between us. 

kobe will not lead the lakers anywhere they need shaq, if shaq stayed a laker and kobe went to miami lakers would have been a better team. It clear to see kobe is pretty selfish player but thats not always bad if ure team isnt so good, but with the lakers they have a solid team, if there stats where realtivly close which i dont expect them 2 be then kobe would be the best player in the L and the lakers would contend for the title. 

when ray said taht hes up to par with kobe i wouldnt bet my money on that but ray allen is a better team player. and i belive that ray could have won the title with shaq becaues there chemistry would be higher and shaq wouldnt get as frustrated. and for the most part the players bashing ray are all laker fans not that its not expect just that i think he still has a clean image on the boards expect for the laker fan base.


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## sweet_constipation (Jul 3, 2004)

EHL, I worded by words incorrectly...........I often do.
I just wanted to point out that there were many analysts saying TT would be the better player back then.

Though.....was Mack 10 banned?


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## Pan Mengtu (Jun 18, 2004)

Ray Allen has the better record without Shaq on their teams.


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## bballlife (Oct 5, 2003)

Im not even going to touch that last post by Peja, not worth it. 

Otherwise, a lot of people are overreacting in this thread. I'm not doubting Ray is a good guy, I know he is. I think a lot of people are tired of hearing everyone rip on Kobe, all while Kobe says nothing. Lots of speculation and hearsay, lots of bs. 

And for those of you who don’t know the book on Bruce Bowen let me say this. 

He is absolutely the dirtiest player in the league. He gets away with A LOT, and has more than a few tricks. One being the snakebite. (tapping or softly touching a guys forearm as he shoots) 2nd being the ridiculous slide under, a move designed to make the jump shooter roll his ankle when he comes down.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>bballlife</b>!
> Im not even going to touch that last post by Peja, not worth it.
> 
> Otherwise, a lot of people are overreacting in this thread. I'm not doubting Ray is a good guy, I know he is. I think a lot of people are tired of hearing everyone rip on Kobe, all while Kobe says nothing. Lots of speculation and hearsay, lots of bs.
> ...


I think there are a lot of people who couldn't get enough of hearing people rip on Kobe. 

Kobe is saying nothing because, well, there really isn't much response for the stuff he is getting ripped about.


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## bballlife (Oct 5, 2003)

> Though.....was Mack 10 banned?



Uh whats with all the, "wheres mack 10?"

Thats like beating brain cancer then asking when its coming back.


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Pan Mengtu</b>!
> Ray Allen has the better record without Shaq on their teams.


Ray Allen also had the better teammates. Point = moot.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>EHL</b>!
> 
> 
> Ray Allen also had the better teammates. Point = moot.



Oooh, seriously resisting urge to make Tmac comment ...


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>JNice</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> Oooh, seriously resisting urge to make Tmac comment ...


Go ahead.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>EHL</b>!
> 
> 
> Go ahead.


Not gonna do it. Wouldn't be prudent.


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## Hoopla (Jun 1, 2004)

Can't disagree with anything Allen says here...


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>JNice</b>!
> 
> 
> Not gonna do it. Wouldn't be prudent.


OK George.


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## sweet_constipation (Jul 3, 2004)

bballlife is correct.
Bowen is dirty.
Dirtiest player since Malone in his prime.


As far as Mack Ten, it's just weird not having arguably the greatest basher not posting in a thread about his "favorite" player.
:uhoh:


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## IV (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>sweet_constipation</b>!
> Bowen is dirty.
> Dirtiest player since Malone in his prime.


Worse than Artest?


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>EHL</b>!
> 
> 
> Ray Allen also had the better teammates. Point = moot.



What are you talking about? The Sonics have a horrible supporting cast outside of maybe 3 guys. Your point is not valid.


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>R-Star</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> What are you talking about? The Sonics have a horrible supporting cast outside of maybe 3 guys. Your point is not valid.


Really? So the Lakers supporting cast outside of Kobe (without Shaq) was better than the Sonics or Bucks supporting cast outside of Allen? During what years?


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## Half-aMAziNg (Oct 16, 2004)

Just a couple of days before Allen commented on Kobe, he commented about how all of the players that demanded trades this season are selfish, so this isnt the first time he called someone selfish this year. Maybe Allen only said it because Kobe tried to embarrass him, but you have to admit that everything Ray said was true, so I have no problem at all with what he said

But I do think we have found a new nickname for Ray Allen...."Captain Obvious" :dead:


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## sweet_constipation (Jul 3, 2004)

IV, Bowen makes Artest look like David Robinson when it comes to cheap tactics.
:yes:


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## Ryoga (Aug 31, 2002)

Artest is not dirty, he's just insane.


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## kaniffmn (Jul 29, 2003)

Ray's speaking the truth, and it's about time an actual player that isn't named Shaq said that. Ray is a straight-shooter, he calls it like he sees it. I can't believe all the hatin' on Ray's game on this thread: second-tier player, hasn't accomplished anything, he's not worth 100 mill, he's just a big whiner. Forget all that. His game more than speaks for itself so the man is speaking what's on his mind, and it's the truth.


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## runbmg (May 25, 2002)

Ray Ray Rules!


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## radronOmega (Aug 1, 2004)

*re*

Kobe BRyant


23 points, 6 rebounds, 8 assist in 31 minutes. Who's the selfish one now Ray Ray?????? And to all of you haters on this thread


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

Me on Ray Allen: Shut up and go home!!!!:yes:


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

*Re: re*



> Originally posted by <b>radronOmega</b>!
> Kobe BRyant
> 
> 
> 23 points, 6 rebounds, 8 assist in 31 minutes. Who's the selfish one now Ray Ray?????? And to all of you haters on this thread


:laugh:


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## kaniffmn (Jul 29, 2003)

*Re: re*



> Originally posted by <b>radronOmega</b>!
> Kobe BRyant
> 
> 
> 23 points, 6 rebounds, 8 assist in 31 minutes. Who's the selfish one now Ray Ray?????? And to all of you haters on this thread


Wow, one game. Ya'll act like kobe's been doin this for years. Ray allen has put up similar stats throughout his career.


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## sweet_constipation (Jul 3, 2004)

Well, if you're one of those _glass is half full_ type of people, at least Kobe has a new rival on these boards, and there may be more than just Kobe vs. (you know who  ) threads this season.


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## SheriffKilla (Jan 1, 2004)

WHATS GOING ON HERE???


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## IV (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: Re: re*



> Originally posted by <b>kaniffmn</b>!
> 
> 
> Wow, one game. *Ya'll act like kobe's been doin this for years.* Ray allen has put up similar stats throughout his career.


he has! :laugh:


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## kaniffmn (Jul 29, 2003)

kobe has not been averaging 8 assists in any season of his career. his best is about 6. and his rebounds are at 4-5 a game. just because he has one good game in the preseason doesn't mean he's going to be doin this all season, count on that. irregardless, ray's been putting up similar stats as kobe in pts. reb. and ast. i would think ray knows what he's talking about and his game ain't weak. as to kobe having a good game, that's great...but let's be real, he hasn't and won't do that day-in-day-out once the real season starts. but this thread isn't about kobe playing a good game, it's about ray allen speaking the truth. mad props to ray.


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## IV (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>kaniffmn</b>!
> kobe has not been averaging 8 assists in any season of his career. his best is about 6. and his rebounds are at 4-5 a game. just because he has one good game in the preseason doesn't mean he's going to be doin this all season, count on that. irregardless, ray's been putting up similar stats as kobe in pts. reb. and ast. i would think ray knows what he's talking about and his game ain't weak. as to kobe having a good game, that's great...but let's be real, he hasn't and won't do that day-in-day-out once the real season starts. but this thread isn't about kobe playing a good game, it's about ray allen speaking the truth. mad props to ray.


You can believe that Ray Allen is as good as Kobe all you like, but that's simply not true. There is a reason why Ray at best, in only one season, was a third team all nba teamers, as opposed to the guy who's first team every year. 

You're point about the numbers isn't true either, it's not uncommon for Kobe to post numbers like 23-8-6. He may not average 23-8-6, but he has been posting numbers like that for years. In his best season he averaged 30-7-6, so how many times that season do you think he tallied at least 23 points, 8 assist, and 6 rebounds? 

Speaking the truth? No that's just Ray speculating... not the same thing.


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