# OT: The Games Are Rigged!



## Stevenson (Aug 23, 2003)

I've seen this horror show too many times for it to be simply bad refereeing. If you saw the end of game 5 tonight, you saw Dwayne Wade (incredible to be sure) get a foul call with 1.9 seconds left, hit them both, and win the game. Only 2 problems:


1. He wasn't fouled
2. They normally never call fouls at the end of games, especially championship games

Oh, except when Shaq and Kobe, oops, I mean Shaq and Wade are playing. 

The fix is in.


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## Shining Greatness (Feb 22, 2006)

I also feel the games are rigged. And because of it, I will never have a favorite player/team win a ring.


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## raptorsrule15 (Jul 4, 2003)

Not mavs nor heat fan, nor am I a Wade hater but wadey got sooooooo many dawn ghost fouls, everytime some1 breaths close to him they whistle blows, its pretty sad.


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## hasoos (Jan 3, 2003)

Been saying this for days. A few games ago in the finals I watched the refs turn against Dallas and knew it had happened again. I hadn't seen it this bad in a few years, but I was sure it had happened. In the back of my mind I know the NBA isn't a fair competitive system.


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## Shining Greatness (Feb 22, 2006)

I'm thinking about giving up on the NBA. The rigged games kill it for me. I'm sick of great teams getting beat because the media likes the other team better.


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## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

I knew I recognized that reffing crew...they did the USA/Italy World Cup game too.


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## thegza (Feb 18, 2003)

Shining Greatness said:


> I'm thinking about giving up on the NBA. The rigged games kill it for me. I'm sick of great teams getting beat because the media likes the other team better.


Co-sign. I feel your pain, but I am a ceritifed Heat HATER.


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## ProZach (Oct 13, 2005)

Shining Greatness said:


> I also feel the games are rigged.



Yeah, I'm sure. And the moon landing was fake as well...

Get a grip. 

Jesus...


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## hasoos (Jan 3, 2003)

The moon landings didn't make millions of dollars in marketing and team parphenilia. Get your own grip.


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## ProZach (Oct 13, 2005)

hasoos said:


> The moon landings didn't make millions of dollars in marketing and team parphenilia. Get your own grip.



Whining that the refs hate your team, or the team your rooting for, because a call didn't go your way is the stupidest thing I've heard. What a cop out. People that do that probably don't take any accountability in their own lives either. It's always a conspiracy. It's always someone elses fault. 

Nobody likes me, I guess I'll go eat worms.  


Pathetic.


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## LameR (Jan 4, 2004)

whine complain whine complain


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## Stevenson (Aug 23, 2003)

ProZach said:


> Whining that the refs hate your team, or the team your rooting for, because a call didn't go your way is the stupidest thing I've heard. What a cop out. People that do that probably don't take any accountability in their own lives either. It's always a conspiracy. It's always someone elses fault.
> 
> Nobody likes me, I guess I'll go eat worms.
> 
> ...


What is pathetic is what an uninfomed post yours is.

Simply because we have seen the refs turn games and series one way or another time and time again (Lakers - Kings anyone?) does not mean we are stupid or lack personal responsibility. I've written a book about the NBA for crying out loud, and I'm raising 3 pretty great kids, so I know something about both basketball and responsibility.

The fact is, too many games turn on questionable calls, or no calls, and too many people notice it for it simply to be human error time and again.

And btw, like most people on this board, I have no dogs in this fight. I like Dallas, but so what? That has noting to do with it. If the NBA wanted to dispell the rumours, it would institute some instant replay, like the NFL, but it hasn't has it?


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## ProZach (Oct 13, 2005)

Stevenson said:


> What is pathetic is what an uninfomed post yours is.
> 
> Simply because we have seen the refs turn games and series one way or another time and time again (Lakers - Kings anyone?) does not mean we are stupid or lack personal responsibility. I've written a book about the NBA for crying out loud, and I'm raising 3 pretty great kids, so I know something about both basketball and responsibility.
> 
> ...



Thanks for giving me your resume...

I agree the GAME of basketball has a degree of human error, because it relies on three refs to make every correct call. Of course there are going to be bad calls. 

There is a HUGE difference in a bad call vs. a conspiracy to sell merchandise. That's all I'm saying.

I'd love a replay in the last two minutes a game.


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## TP3 (Jan 26, 2003)

So you believe the officials "choreograph" the games. Well they did a heck of a job tonight because that game was UNBELIEVABLE! How many big plays can guys keep making?!? Awesome.


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## Utherhimo (Feb 20, 2005)

stern wants 7 game series it makes more money thats why they went to this lame 2 3 2 system now what watch the mavs win and be protected


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## Stevenson (Aug 23, 2003)

You don't find it even the least bit suspicious that going back to Dalls for Games 6 and 7, the Heat are suddenly up a game, thereby making the liklihood of a dramatic Game 7 much higher?

And isn't it just a bit suspicious for a league that "lets players decide games", especially championship games, calls a foul with 1.9 left?

When there was NO foul?

Comeon.


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## FeloniusThunk (Jan 1, 2003)

No conspiracy against Dallas or for Miami needed, I think. The NBA has clearly ordained Wade as the next heir, that's all. He's great and I like watching him, but the ridiculous calls going his way all game long, at both ends, made it kind of clear who's supposed to look good now. I remember Nate Mcmillan after a finals game of trying to guard Jordan, saying "pretty tough to guard him when you're not allowed to breathe on him". The NBA needs an untainted star, and here we are.

I think I should just stop watching in the playoffs. This year has had some great games, but the actual winners are pretty meaningless, especially in close games or series. The score is within the margin error and margin of star treatment differential.

Naturally, I won't feel that way if the Blazers win one like that. I'd take my ill-gotten trophy with a smile, thank you.


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## Public Defender (May 5, 2003)

FT nailed it - "a star is born".... and his name isn't Jason Terry.


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## Stevenson (Aug 23, 2003)

Public Defender said:


> FT nailed it - "a star is born".... and his name isn't Jason Terry.


Agreed.

I remember reading a book by the great ref Earl Strom. He admitted to reffing stars differently, because that is who peole pay to watch, he said.


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## ProZach (Oct 13, 2005)

Stevenson said:


> You don't find it even the least bit suspicious that going back to Dalls for Games 6 and 7, the Heat are suddenly up a game, thereby making the liklihood of a dramatic Game 7 much higher?



You simply have to be joking. 

I'm sure you think that Gary Payton hitting that big shot in game three was a conspiracy as well. Wouldn't want them down 3-0. I wonder what trick they pulled to make Dallas squander a huge fourth quarter lead in that game. In fact, that was pretty risky on the part of the NBA in giving them that lead in the first place! Same for this game as well. 

Watching the last play in real time, it really looked like Wade got fouled by two guys. Refs don't have the luxury of seeing it on replay like you did. And there was contact, I saw Dirks arm on Wades side in slow-motion. That doesn't mean it had to be called, but it was close. If it hadn't been called, the other half would be claiming a conspiracy on the "no-call". 

Just accept that it was a great game and Miami won. Why is that so hard?

THERE IS NO CONSPIRACY! But if you've chosen to spend your life writing books that suggest otherwise, more power to you. If you've gone to that extent I'll never change your mind anyways.


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## G-Force (Jan 4, 2005)

I missed today's game and I just now took a look at the final score and the box score. What sttod out to me? How about 25 free throw attempts for d-wade. Oh, and Shaq going 2-12 from the line.

Then I do a quick scan of posts today and see that there is allot of complaining about the reffing. Sounds like I missed a bs game. And it probably is good that I missed the game, because I am pulling for Dallas and I have high blood pressure.

G-Force


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## Utherhimo (Feb 20, 2005)

the set up is for game seven series stern doesnt want anymore sweeps of teams so the went to the 2 - 3- 2 system which is crap now watch dirk and terry get protected in game 6. this finals series is taking too darn long and the draft needs to come!


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## TP3 (Jan 26, 2003)

Nope, you're wrong, you missed a GREAT basketball game. Funny none of these people noticed the touch foul on Shaq w/ 2 min. to go or the out of bounds call that was missed in favor of the Mavs that was also in overtime. 

I can't believe that "stars" getting calls in the NBA is news. How long has the NBA been around?


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## LameR (Jan 4, 2004)

Stevenson said:


> What is pathetic is what an uninfomed post yours is.
> 
> Simply because we have seen the refs turn games and series one way or another time and time again (Lakers - Kings anyone?) does not mean we are stupid or lack personal responsibility. I've written a book about the NBA for crying out loud, and I'm raising 3 pretty great kids, so I know something about both basketball and responsibility.


But what if your book sucks and your kids aren't actually that great. You'd never know.

EDIT: Not implying that you're a poor parent (or writer I guess, but more of a parent), but just bringing up a stupid point.


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## RomaVictor (Feb 16, 2004)

Riiiiiiiight, Stevenson.

The fact that Wade WAS fouled on the vast majority of calls and that he is the best penetrator in the game, probably and that he's putting his team on his back isn't what has to do with his free throw numbers. Plus, the Mavs hack-a-shaq when it wasn't even necessary and in OT to start. What the ??? That puts you in the penalty quicker (more FTs) and gives Shaq FTs that are artificially inflated. ANd you whine about this?


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

TP3 said:


> I can't believe that "stars" getting calls in the NBA is news. How long has the NBA been around?


every day is one day too long. 

A foul should be a foul regardless of who is involved. The star system compromises the integrity of the results of the sport and basically is complete bleep. Not one other major sport (college or pro) has a similar tainting element to their results.

STOMP


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## Utherhimo (Feb 20, 2005)

can this thread go to the OT? how does have anything to do with the blazers?


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## LameR (Jan 4, 2004)

(duplicate post)


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## LameR (Jan 4, 2004)

RomaVictor said:


> ANd you whine about this?


Well from that angle it happens to appear as a foul.



STOMP said:


> every day is one day too long.
> 
> A foul should be a foul regardless of who is involved. The star system compromises the integrity of the results of the sport and basically is complete bleep. Not one other major sport (college or pro) has a similar tainting element to their result.


True story.



Utherhimo said:


> can this thread go to the OT? how does have anything to do with the blazers?


It's got an OT label on it.

What's the rule for thread labeled "OT" compared to ones in the OT section? Are ones with the label still at least slightly basketball related or do people just label it OT and shove it in this forum because not many people go to the OT forum?


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## Verro (Jul 4, 2005)

Felonius Thunk said:


> No conspiracy against Dallas or for Miami needed, I think. The NBA has clearly ordained Wade as the next heir, that's all. He's great and I like watching him, but the ridiculous calls going his way all game long, at both ends, made it kind of clear who's supposed to look good now. I remember Nate Mcmillan after a finals game of trying to guard Jordan, saying "pretty tough to guard him when you're not allowed to breathe on him". The NBA needs an untainted star, and here we are.



Superb post, I was about to say something similar but you summed it up so nicely. :clap:


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## t1no (Jul 10, 2005)

MJ all over again.


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## meru (Jul 2, 2003)

Re: Jason Terry v. Wade: Terry isn't a penetrator. He's a jump shooter. Hence far fewer FTs.

I watched the game, and admittedly, I want the Heat to win (mainly because I hate Kobe Bryant, so it's a bit circuitous) but I didn't see too many touch fouls on Wade. Wade is like Iverson: he drives into a pack of people and always gets bumped, so it's easy to give him the foul. You have to give SOMEBODY the foul. Incidentally, last game Devin Harris got some charges on Wade that looked pretty dubious to me. And certainly the refs aren't obviously pro-Miami-as-a-team, because there were some obviously bad calls that went against them (there was a sequence when Devin Harris was moving his feet on defence but still got the call (charge), then James Posey was rock solid but he got called for blocking.

Besides: if Nowitzki and Howard hit their FTs near the end, it's a moot point. Did David Stern fix that?

I will say this, though: Miami is trying REALLY HARD to give this series away with missed FTs and stupid TOs. Dallas just seems to get a case of the shakes at the wrong time.


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## crandc (Sep 15, 2004)

I agree with Felonious. I don't see a grand conspiracy to make the Heat win. I do think that Wade has been ordained the new superstar and will get touch calls. When one player shoots as many free throws as the entire other team, it is out of whack. I think that refs don't conspire but they do know that someone is supposed to be showcased and that, as has been said, a 7 game series is wanted. Had Dallas won last night, it ends in 6. The refs are human. They want to please the ones who sign their checks. No, they did not make Gary Payton's shot go in or Jason Terry's shot miss. But you can call or not call an "iffy" foul. When it's Wade (or Kobe Bryant, or Michael Jordan), it's going to be called.


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## Sheed30 (Apr 3, 2003)

I saw the game and I did not think they were an conspiracy going on. Just the Heat being more aggressive. And for one quarter, I think it was the 3rd or 4th quarter, that Dallas was in the penalty early in that quarter. 

How many times did Dallas do the hack-a-Shaq? must have been 4-5 times. of course your gonna have a FT difference if your hacking Shaq like that. 

Plus Josh Howard calling that timeout was the game right there.

But the NBA has always given the superstar the benefit of the doubt, but tonight i didn't see any of that. Every game, there will be a few missed calls on both ends. The only thing i have with the ref's is the B.S. superstar calls. But for people to think that David Stern or the NBA purposely try to rig games, i don't think they do that. The NFL ref's on the other hand do.


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## SodaPopinski (Aug 10, 2004)

-Pop


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## Peaceman (Jan 15, 2003)

I don't beleive there are fixed games. The problem many of you are seeing is because there are different unwritten rules for superstars. If the NBA wants to get rid of the fix theories, they need to make call the same for all players. Even vets say rookies won't get those calls. Why should time in the league have anything to do with whether you get a call or your skill level? The NBA has gone to far in protecting the stars and this kind of conversation will happen every year until they quit doing that. They have appointed Wade in the Jordan, Magic, Bird kind of superstar, so he can't be touched. Dirk isn't there yet, but his game is more outside, so he won't ever get that many calls.


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## L (Sep 20, 2005)

RomaVictor said:


> Riiiiiiiight, Stevenson.
> 
> The fact that Wade WAS fouled on the vast majority of calls and that he is the best penetrator in the game, probably and that he's putting his team on his back isn't what has to do with his free throw numbers. Plus, the Mavs hack-a-shaq when it wasn't even necessary and in OT to start. What the ??? That puts you in the penalty quicker (more FTs) and gives Shaq FTs that are artificially inflated. ANd you whine about this?


I believe one the case that Stevenson is trying to make is that they actually called a foul with 1:9 seconds left. In the last 5 seconds of a game. they usually dont call a foul and let the players try to win it themselves. I dont believe there is a conspiracy, but i dont like that the NBA gives so many phantom calls to WAde.


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## ProudBFan (Apr 29, 2003)

The refs called the Heat for offensive fouls, travels, 3-second violations, moving picks like 9-10 times in a row at the end of the 3rd quarter / beginning of the 4th quarter of Game 4. I don't see how that equates to a conspiracy to give the championship to the Heat.

Wade is now a superstar. As such he is going to get superstar calls. But superstar calls is nothing new to the NBA. May not be right, but that's the way it is. But it is a stretch, IMO, to think giving one player superstar calls equates to a conspiracy to give that player and his team a game, let alone a championship.

Dallas has a superstar, too. Maybe he should be taking it to the rack like Wade does. I bet if he did, he'd be getting superstar calls as well.

PBF


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## mook (Dec 31, 2002)

I'm already missing those Pistons and Spurs championship teams. say what you want about boring basketball, but neither team rode the obnoxious superstar treatment gravy train to their rings. they simply out-played everyone else. (yeah, Duncan's received some superstar calls in his time, but I really don't think they were nearly as prevalent as it has been for others.) 

Jordan, Shaq, Kobe, Wade, Nowitzki. These guys are/were such brilliant players that it's a damned shame that the league chose to tarnish their legacies with "superstar treatment," which is just a glorified term for cheating.


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## L (Sep 20, 2005)

ill post this pic just for fun.(taken from mavs forum) (note: i dont believe there is a conspiracy)( and i dont know if this pic has been editted in anyway.)

Can u name the 2 things one might argue that there is a conspiracy in this pic?


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## myELFboy (Jun 28, 2005)

These Finals have made me ill too. Last nights game was just ****ing ridiculous. I couldn't stand Miami before these games, & these past couple of games have made me want Cuban and the Mavs to win these next two games even more. I'll be vomiting if I see that ate-up Miami team celebrating on the Mavs homefloor.


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## deanwoof (Mar 10, 2003)

FullMetalAlchemist said:


> ill post this pic just for fun.(taken from mavs forum) (note: i dont believe there is a conspiracy)( and i dont know if this pic has been editted in anyway.)
> 
> Can u name the 2 things one might argue that there is a conspiracy in this pic?


From what I see as a ref (yes I am a ref):

The ref in the background has called the foul already. It's obvoiusly not Devin Harris. It's on Dirk Nowitski. Now I don't know exactly from this angle where Dirk's right hand is. But what I'm assuming is that his right hand is on th back/side of DWade. His left hand is reaching. He may or not have made contact with the left but from the angle where the referee is standing, all he sees is a reach. (And if these European players are supposed to be all fundamentally sound, why is Dirk reaching for the ball? Fundamentals say you should never reach over the top for the ball, cuz you could slap someone's hand, but rather from underneath so the refs don't see it.)

All in all, looks like it was a judgement call by that ref.

And as far as the refs rigging the game to go to OT so the Heat win. I dont think so. Who really wants to work overtime? And not get paid extra for it?


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## mook (Dec 31, 2002)

good call, deanwoof. 

it was a foul, but on the other hand it was a touch foul that rarely gets called at the end of a tight game unless you are a superstar. that's what I find objectionable. 

honestly, just call it consistently for all the players. if a "superstar" is in danger of fouling out, well, he's not a superstar then. great players are smart enough to adjust their play to how the refs are calling the game.


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## Paxil (Jan 1, 2003)

The reason Dirk hasn't been taking it to the hole in the last 3 games is because Dallas is on the road. You don't get to the line like at home and the players all know it. Can someone dig up stats on FTA at home vs road? I looked a few times and couldn't find it broken down for home and road games. Also... yeah Wade gets the benefit of the doubt. I could score 150 points if he ducked his head and ran straight for the hoop each time. The don't let anyone get in the way... you can't breath on him, the only thing you can do is somehow hope you distract him while staying 5 feet away... and even then if he trips the closest player will STILL get called for a foul. Wade is a great amazing player. He doesn't need the help but it seems fairly obvious there is superstar treatment. Phantom calls are something I have always had a hard time accepting. I can understand missing a call… that is going to happen, but seeing something that didn’t… that should get you a trip to a mental hospital. 

I used to ref… I didn’t call anything I didn’t see… sometimes it put me in awkward situations… especially with 1 ref… and at times there’d be a scramble for the ball tipped out of bounds and someone would jump in front of me I couldn’t see it and I’d call a jump ball… and everyone would go crazy! WHAT! It wasn’t even close! I just responded that I can’t call something I don’t see. LOL once I even cancelled a game and told the coach I was forfeiting the game for their team because I heard her tell her players to purposely try to foul and hurt the other team’s players. (They were down by like 50… playing a girls team from Oregon City… yeah… and you know what they ended up doing later. =) They flipped, some parents yelled bad things at me, but other parents that also overheard what they coach said thanked me after the game… saying it was the right thing to do. Anyway… woah… off topic… breaking 2 paragraph rule. =) 

As someone in this thread already said… superstars do get calls. They also seem to get more calls at home. Nothing new here… move along.


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## TP3 (Jan 26, 2003)

Tarnished???? That's silly. You'd have to include a whole lot more guys than that if you go down that road....Duncan, Bird, Magic, Isaiah...etc.


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## LameR (Jan 4, 2004)

deanwoof said:


> From what I see as a ref (yes I am a ref):
> 
> The ref in the background has called the foul already. It's obvoiusly not Devin Harris. It's on Dirk Nowitski. Now I don't know exactly from this angle where Dirk's right hand is. But what I'm assuming is that his right hand is on th back/side of DWade. His left hand is reaching. He may or not have made contact with the left but from the angle where the referee is standing, all he sees is a reach. (And if these European players are supposed to be all fundamentally sound, why is Dirk reaching for the ball? Fundamentals say you should never reach over the top for the ball, cuz you could slap someone's hand, but rather from underneath so the refs don't see it.)
> 
> ...


Also, the pic posted by RomaVictor showed Harris reaching, and what appeared to be grabbing Wade's right arm.

http://www.basketballboards.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=8806


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## Paxil (Jan 1, 2003)

Yes TP3... and remember Moses Malone? He might have started it all... pump fake... lean into them... throw up shot. Lather rinse repeat to 20+ points per game.


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## wizmentor (Nov 10, 2005)

Heat home court advantage is worth about 9 pts.
Mavs HCA is worth about 5-6 pts.

If you consider that rigged, then yes, it is rigged.
If you don't, then, then it's not. Simple as that. :biggrin: 

However, the refs definitely gave the Heat their 9pts worth
in Miami. What most of us want to know is, will they
stay consistent and give the Mavs their 6 pts in :cheers: 
Dallas?


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## meru (Jul 2, 2003)

Henry Abbott (an actual sportswriter by profession, as well as a Blazers fan, so two big points to him) at TrueHoop has this to say about game 5:



> Tracking Fouls
> I spent a lot of today watching video and tracking the fouls from yesterday's game. Now I am having technical difficulties finishing the job. It'll happen soon enough.
> 
> But suffice it to say: the vast majority of the fouls on both teams that I have seen so far were blatantly good calls. Just really obvious. There are a handful that you can't see well from the camera angles, but from the first few quarters--what I have logged so far--the questionable calls don't break hard for one team.
> ...


I also have just re-watched the end of the 4th and OT on tape. One thing I noticed: when Dwyane Wade tied the score to send the game into OT, Griffin could easily have been called for blocking (he flopped) which would've given Wade a chance to win the game right there. If the game really was rigged, there's no way the refs would've given the Mavs a chance to win clearly in OT.


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## hasoos (Jan 3, 2003)

The more I think about it, the more all you people up above who talk about Wade getting the star treatment are probably right. Its just been a few years since anybody in the league really has had that star treatment, and it had been long enough for me, that I had forgot it existed. Star treatment or not, I still believe the refs should have let the players decide that game in OT. You don't make the call at the end unless it is a no brainer.


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## blue32 (Jan 13, 2006)

Dude, um hello? The refs *DID* let the players decide the game in OT. The player, D.Harris decided to GRAB Wade on the way to shoot the ball.

I dont know how blatant that is, holy hell. 

All this talk about not calling fouls in the last seconds of a game is rediculous. That's just as rediculous as the conspiracy talk. See the pictures and the tape, he was fouled.


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## hasoos (Jan 3, 2003)

Blah blah blah we disagree, and I still exist. Hey you don't rule the universe.


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## blue32 (Jan 13, 2006)

I dont see how you can disagree with the photo's and the replay tape where D.Harris grabbed Wade's arm in the final drive.

But hell, who am I to say you can't live in Wunderland.... Maybe you'll meet Mark Cuban there


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## Paxil (Jan 1, 2003)

I say call the game as it happens. A foul is a foul. Stop making the phantom calls and they won't have to worry about ruining the game. This stuff about let the players decide stems from 1/4 of the fouls they call where it is clearly NOT a foul. One of those calls at the end of the game would really really suck.


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