# Start Allan Houston?



## The True Essence (May 26, 2003)

i say yes, and im all for benching Jamal.


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## JT (Mar 1, 2004)

*easy formula for wins.*

start him over jamal, and start jyd over tnt. we'll see if lenny learned any lessons on who is a player when we play the jazz.


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

I say no right now. I'd keep Jamal in the lineup and take out T.


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## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

Eh, what's the diff? Between Jamal at the 1 and 2 (though Moochie seems to be the better 1 at this point) and Allan at the 2 and 3 they'll probably log equal minutes. Both will be in at the end as both are able big shot takers, and they can decoy for each other.

But JYD keeps earning himself time at the 3. I'd have no problems starting him.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

its totally irrelavant who starts,but it is way too early to think H20 can log serious minutes.....

Start JC,if hes hot,ride him..if hes not,bench him....


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## The True Essence (May 26, 2003)

thats another problem. Lenny wont bench Crawford anymore. early in the year, he wasnt hesitant to pull him for his shot selection, but nowadays he'll play 40 minutes shooting 4-22 (like the hawks game). this is just making jamal be as much of a chucker as ever. he calmed down with his chucking a few weeks ago, but now its gotten worse then ever.

he went from shooting 43 percent straight back down to 39 percent cause of his shot selection


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## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

Not only that, some where saying that in Chi Jamal didn't have good coaches or play with good players, but time "good mentors" like Stephon would do him a world of good.

But now we learn in that Detroit game that WIlkens had told them to call time out after that Hamilton possession, whether they converted or not, but Stephon over rided him, and signaled Jamal on.

Some say the Knicks are underachieving, and I suppose I agree to (which is to say I still believe they are capable of much more than they've shown), but lets face it, we have few good defensive players, and far too few smart players, and I'd like to see Stephon learn a few more things about winning games before he starts to pass on his "wisdom" to Jamal. One thing he needs to learn is that he doesn't know better than the HOF coach and NBA 50 greatest who was assigned to teach him.


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## knicks235 (May 20, 2003)

i say no. How many teams can say they have a guy like Allan Houston Comming off the bench as 6th man? To me, he is the ultimate weapon off the bench. On the other hand, i do love seeing teams try to figure out who to guard when Marbury,Crawford and Houston are on the court surrounding the 3 point line.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

I agree with H20 coming off the bench..How man yeams in the league have a guy like H20 to play the 2 or the 3??

Ita a great luxury and you know either TT or JC will nedd to be pulled almost every game..


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## JT (Mar 1, 2004)

*yup.*

i changed my mind, i agree too. houston is still getting his legs under him. but when hes fully healthy, he needs to be starting.


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## The True Essence (May 26, 2003)

were now 2 games over .500, and were actually 1 game behind second place. But will the knicks ever get any respect on this website.....nah.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

penny,I think zeke has done an awesome job..people have a very short term memory and forget where we were last hear at this time...


We have a great present and a good futire now.People can bash JC all they want,but should he get a bit more disiplined and stronger he is going to be an allstar...great pickup considering we gave up nothing...

The Kvh trade was a great trade and showed ZEKE knows what he is doing..He said all along NAZ was the key and we can see why....Not to mention KVH is injured again...

The marbury trade is a great trade..Vaporknick never showed up,lampe plays 3 minutes per game and the other players involved are garbage..and we have a top 3 point guard..

KT,is a double double and was signed for a reasonable amount

We are 2 games over .500 and thats without H20 and TT playing like garbage..It will only get better


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## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

It's not like the team gets ripped and no respect, it just gets the kind of criticism and praise a ~.500 team deserves. The schedule started rough but it's been easy of late and up until the last two games we really weren't picking up ground. We've got a lot of potential but also a lot of flaws, and I see no reason to hide from the good or the bad. Doesn't mean we'd prefer to have Laydump or Eisley running the show, just means we're realistic.

I like that this board isn't just a bunch or rah rah homers. Though surely one or two might not be a bad thing...


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## The True Essence (May 26, 2003)

no the knicks dont get respect anywhere but here. on the NBA page, the sixers,celtics and nets are somehow better. the only team i could see passing us in the division is Jersey.

iverson scores 50 tonight, his team loses against UTAH, who played us just yesterday.but them sixers are still better then us! the knicks and nets are the only teams that arent just give the ball to one guy and let him do everything. The raptors dont count, cause they just stink in general. i dont see how people could say we arent the best right now......

they say we have no chemistry...i dont see that. i only see bad defense. we score buckets fairly easily


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## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

So are you saying the Knicks forum gives the team no respect, or elsewhere? 

For my own perspective I predicted the team to win 47 games and so long as they hover around .500 I consider them underachieving. But it doesn't worry me because I expected to start slow. But the truth of the matter is, for all of Jamal's nifty moves were still at or below the winning percentage of last years Marbury squad, which consisted of a lot of the maligned Shandon Anderson. So how much praise they get is relative to how good they are relative to expectations, and so far I'd say they are at or below that.

But the other side of the story is also true as far as Knicks fans go. They just expect the Atlantic to be theirs like it's a birthright. We're not exactly knocking off great teams or winning on the road. If we don't watch our tails the Celtics or Sixers could easily catch or surpass us and I'm not gonna confine all my Knicks comments to rave reviews when we are merely mediocre. 

Lets win 8 straight, or get to .500 on the road, or knock off a few elite teams, then we can party.


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## The True Essence (May 26, 2003)

well we'll see tomorrow against dallas. i meant people that arent knick fans btw


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## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

Okay, my mistake, I see I misread what you wrote. I've just been called a hater elsewhere for saying Marbury isn't a great uptempo guard. I'm all for supporting our boys and all, but I hate to feel like I'm in some sort of cult...


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

how about we teach our men to block out on the defensive end before the party..we are giving up way too many second chances


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## The True Essence (May 26, 2003)

yep when steph is on the break he goes brain dead.

were only 1 game behind second place right now though


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

Steph goes on the break?


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

> We have a great present and a good futire now.People can bash JC all they want,but should he get a bit more disiplined and stronger he is going to be an allstar...great pickup considering we gave up nothing...


Crawford has been 175 since he came into the league. I don't anticpate that changing anytime soon.

And I would hardly call 4 expiring contracts (including Mutombo and Frank Williams) nothing. Look at what the Nets gave up to get Vince Carter. I'll take a big guard like Carter over a Ronald Murray clone.

The Raptors deal Vince for 2 first rounders, Eric Williams, Aaron Williams, and Mourning, who they are about to buyout for some figure over 10 million

You think they think twice about TT or Penny with a collection of those expiring contracts?

Look at what the Nets got for Kenyon Martin. They didn't want to give K-Mart the money he got, and they STILL got THREE first round picks out of Denver.

Picks and expiring contracts are assets that are worth all-stars to many teams. The Knicks dealt all of their assets for a sixth man caliber player that might make one all-star team during his career if all the other guards in the east like Lebron/Wade/Iverson/Kidd/Baron/Marbury/Redd/Hamilton/Billups/Pierce/Francis/Carter all decide to simultaneously die. Crawford isn't even a top 10 guard in the east, and won't be for a long time. He might not even be top 15 in the east, since I didn't mention Arenas, Hughes, Tinsley, Mobley, Houston, or Hinrich.

But hey, it was worth all our assets to pick up John Starks minus the defense, right? Who cares that we don't have any tradable assets until next year, right? We'll be ready to pick up the next disgruntled big man.... oh, wait. There really aren't any more of those lying around, are there? All the stars have been traded all ready. Aside from Chris Webber, Baron Davis, and Jalen Rose of course.

The next time the Knicks make the finals, it will probably be because Lebron decided to retire in the middle of his prime after winning his 3rd championship.


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## The True Essence (May 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Rashidi</b>!
> 
> 
> Crawford has been 175 since he came into the league. I don't anticpate that changing anytime soon.


McGrady was 190 until 2001 where he gained 20 pounds of muscle. its not impossible. if it took tracy 3 years to get in the weight room, why not Jamal? And it wasnt until Tracy changed teams that he did this.

So you think we could have gotten Carter for those scrubby expiring contracts? obviously not, cause vince didnt suck as bad as he did this year last year. Jamal was the best available player to get with those expiring contracts, since the dampier deal was dying. and we cant trade our first rounder from this year, and we dont have a bunch of draft picks from other teams like the nets did.

we have no first round draft picks to give up anyway. you said it yourself, first rounders can get you good players, i think we accomplished getting a all star caliber player in marbury that way. At least we didnt trade first round picks for othella harrington and mark jackson like some other GM.

were building a team. next year jamal crawford isnt gonna be 35. the big expiring contracts of tim thomas and penny hardaway, along with a first round pick can get us something good. you dont build a contender in one year, its gonna take time.


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

McGrady was 21 in 2001. Crawford is 24 this year.
McGrady also was forced into being the main man in Orlando.
Crawford will always be second to Marbury.
Additionally, McGrady is 6'8 or 6'9, and plays some SF. He's supposed to be bigger, to take advantage of his size. Crawford has size for a PG, but not for a SG.

Also, if Crawford were to gain weight, it will probably hinder his game. I have a similar body type to Crawford (albeit about 6 inches and 60 pounds less). Andre Barrett is my height (5'10) and 173, so it's fair to say that Crawford is as undersized as me weightwise by NBA standards. I am very reluctant to add weight because it would change a lot of the things I do (more than just basketball). I like being much quicker than other guys my height, and I've always preferred speed over strength. Since Jamal's game is based more on quickness than anything, he probably feels the same way. Those crossovers won't be as effective. They're not even that good or fancy, it's just the speed advantage he has on his man. I'm the same way. I have a terribly predictable crossover, and I can still blow past people just on speed alone.

Asking him to gain more weight is asking him to play like Marbury. Looking at his offensive moves, it could be a disaster. You might as well ask Earl Boykins to bulk up.


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

> the big expiring contracts of tim thomas and penny hardaway, along with a first round pick can get us something good.


What will be available in a year? Other than Webber, Baron, and whoever the other guy I mentioned was.

Unless the Blazers put Zach Randolph up for sale.

I can see it now, the Knicks aim to have the worst defensive team of all-time.

PG Marbury
SG Crawford
SF Thomas or Penny
PF Randolph
C Nazr or Curry

We could be like the opposite of the Suns, score 100 ppg and give up 110.


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## The True Essence (May 26, 2003)

im thinking about teams that will suck next year and want to trade their star to rebuild, like how we got Marbury.

so i see Randolph, Pierce, Brand, magloire. all those guys are on teams that probably will suck next year. i really see the hornets giving up on the team even though its just a injury plagued team. the suns gave up on steph even though Amare was injured the first 10-15 games of the season.

randolph cause the blazers might not see him as a franchise guy to build around, and want to move his contract.and cause they cant be .500 forever in the west, thats a lottery team..

Pierce cause i like pierce. what else can i say, thats a dream and a half.

and the clippers always suck so they might wanna cut costs again.


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

It's funny, the Knicks are 7-7 vs the east, while the Clippers are 7-3 vs the east. Knicks are 5-8 on road, Clippers are 4-5. Life just isn't fair.

Other interesting west vs east records...

Spurs: 11-1
Suns: 10-1
Nuggets: 9-5
Kings: 8-0
Blazers: 8-5
Sonics: 7-2
Mavericks: 6-2

The Heat are 15-2 vs the east, and 4-5 vs the west.
The Pacers are 10-8 vs the east, and 2-6 vs the west.
The Sixers are 9-6 vs the east, and 1-8 vs the west.
The Nets are 5-7 vs the east, and 2-9 vs the west.
The Bucks are 5-8 vs the east, and 1-7 vs the west.

Another record tidbit? There are only two teams in the east with a .500 road record, the Heat, and the Wizards. Because the Wizards (14-9) play in the same division as the Heat (whom they were swept by), they are the 4th seed, while the Cavs (14-10, same record as the 5th seed Magic) and Knicks (13-11, one of the few east teams that hasn't faced shaq yet) get to enjoy "division leads".


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

good article on Zeke and the Knicks

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/21/sports/basketball/21knicks.html

Rashidi,are you 5'11 and 130 pounds???????????????????

i looked at a post and you said 6 inches shorter than JC and 60 pounds less????

And JC can easily put on 20-30 pounds of muscle and keep his quickness and explosiveness...Fast twitch fiber wont get "slower" with increased size...

Look at any sprinter or wide reciever.....Even Jerry Rice put on 20 pounds of additional muscle this year and hes close to 40...


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## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Rashidi</b>!
> It's funny, the Knicks are 7-7 vs the east, while the Clippers are 7-3 vs the east. Knicks are 5-8 on road, Clippers are 4-5. Life just isn't fair.
> 
> Other interesting west vs east records...
> ...


But what's interesting in all this is that it's the Knicks who are 6-4 against the west. Go figure.


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

According to you, I'm on your block list. I guess it's only when you want to play pretend.


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## The True Essence (May 26, 2003)

http://www.basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=131795&forumid=2

oak, thats what im talking about........


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

According to you, I'm on your block list. I guess it's only when you want to play pretend.


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## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>PennyHardaway</b>!
> http://www.basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=131795&forumid=2
> 
> oak, thats what im talking about........


Yeah, the General Board :nonono:


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

no,you are on my IGNORE list..it lets you view,should you want to...

was that a typo??60 pounds less than JC??

that would make you in between 125 and 130 pounds at 5'11"...

or half an alfadog:yes:


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

> no,you are on my IGNORE list..it lets you view,should you want to...


So in other words, I'm on your block list in name only, because you're reading everything I write anyway. Shucks.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

yes,you are on my list in spirit only..and i must commend you on the new you...


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