# miller or miller?



## Absynth (Oct 1, 2002)

if it came down to loosing brad miller, or loosing reggie miller, who would u choose?

an aside...guys lets get this forum up again...ill try posting more here...everyone else try to do the same.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>heatfan</b>!
> if it came down to loosing brad miller, or loosing reggie miller, who would u choose?
> 
> an aside...guys lets get this forum up again...ill try posting more here...everyone else try to do the same.


I think they could stand losing Reggie more. Jermaine Oneal is becoming their clutch man anyway and besides losing Brad Miller would make Jermaine Oneal have to slide over to Center. It wouldnt be as big a problem as others think it might be but it wouldnt be as bad either. Miller playing Center frees JO to do alot of other things that he couldnt playing Center and JO would get pounded 10x's more playing the Center spot. Also Indiana has plenty up and coming SG's


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## RetroDreams (Jun 9, 2002)

They won't lose either... the Pacers will end up going over the cap to keep Reggie happy and in the Pacer family, unless he requests a chance to pursue championship options.

I look for him to become a member of the Pacer front office or coaching staff upon his retirement.


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## Ron Artest (Jan 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>RetroDreams</b>!
> unless he requests a chance to pursue championship options.


Dude are you alive at the moment? Where the hell is he going to go that has a better shot than Indiana? There ain't many places my man.

If Reggie wants to come back it will be for next to nothing and off the bench next year.

To answer the original question, I would choose Brad Miller but both will be back.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

I think they have to go with Brad if it comes down to it. That sucks given all Reggie has been for the team, but I think they'd have to consider trading him if it meant somehow freeing up even more cap room.


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

I think Reggie would sign for the vet's minimum if he wanted to still play. I think he's smart enough to understand this team needs to re-sign JO, Brad, and Artest in order to win a championship, and if Reggie wants it that bad, he'll stick with the team for the minimum, and if he doesn't, he'll probably just retire and take a coaching job with the team. Why go to another team for the minimum when he can stick with the team that's been loyal to him, and that he's been loyal to, all his career?

Besides, like Ron said, not many teams haver a better chance at winning the championship than the Pacers right now. In a couple years, they'll definately be one of the top 3 championship contenders.


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## Ron Artest (Jan 1, 2003)

3 years??? They are one of the top 2 championship contenders right now. 

Artest just signed for 7 years at the beginning of the season.


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

I said in a couple years, they'll <b>definately</b> be a <b>top-3</b> championship contender.

Right now I'd have to say the top contenders are:
Sacramento (one game away last year, plenty of playoff exp.)
Dallas (best record in the league, 2 straight 2nd rounds, experienced guys on the team)
LA Lakers (even though they suck now, 3 straight championships)
New Jersey (just went to Finals last season)

After that I'd probably put the Pacers. Sure we have the best record in the east right now, but we haven't gotten out of the 1st round since we went to the finals, and the only player we have left from that championship team (that actually did something) is Reggie.

Next year if the Spurs sign a good free agent with the huge amount of cap space they'll have they should be a contender, but even if they do I'd put them in the position either Dallas or Indiana is at right now.

In two years, Indiana will be top-3 for sure if we keep the core we have now. But right now, no.


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## Ron Artest (Jan 1, 2003)

You're crazy. The Lakers suck. The Pacers took New Jersey to double OT game in 5 last year and that team was nothing compared to this one. Sac owns Dallas and Indiana owns Sac. It's a nice formula.


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## billfindlay10 (Jan 24, 2003)

Indiana looks good but is Artest going to turn into a cancer and kill the team in critical moments. I am a Raptors fan and I know this is the team to beat in the future of the east but I sleep easier knowing you guys have Artest on the club.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>billfindlay10</b>!
> Indiana looks good but is Artest going to turn into a cancer and kill the team in critical moments. I am a Raptors fan and I know this is the team to beat in the future of the east but I sleep easier knowing you guys have Artest on the club.


That's the way Isiah likes it though. Artest was always a bit of a nut, but Isiah has been goading him to new levels. We'll see whether he knows what he's doing or just playing with fire.


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Ron Artest</b>!
> You're crazy. The Lakers suck. The Pacers took New Jersey to double OT game in 5 last year and that team was nothing compared to this one. Sac owns Dallas and Indiana owns Sac. It's a nice formula.


OK I'm crazy. But so was Rudy T when he said "Never underestimate the heart of a champion"... gay line I know but hey, didn't htey win the championship as the 6 seed?

The Lakers are 3 time champions, they've won 3 in a row. Now I'm not saying they'll win forever, and I don't even think they'll win this year, but as winners of the PAST THREE NBA FINALS, don't you think they should still be considered as a contender, as long as they make the playoffs?

If the Rockets make the playoffs as the 8 seed, no, they won't be considered a contender. If the Lakers do, I'm pretty sure they will.

And that formula never works. EVER. It's like a wheel, more than what you think of it as. Sac owns Dallas, and Indy owns Sac, but what about, LAL OWNS SAC? What if the Lakers and Kings meet in the first round (Sacramento 2, Lakers 7 for example) and the Lakers win? Then it'll be all easy for the Mavs, and just because the Kings own the Mavs and the Pacers own the Kings, DOESNT mean the Pacers own the Mavs!!!


And what the HELL did that have to do with being a contender anyway?

Face it, if you finish the previous season 42-40, you WONT be ranked higher than the team that just went to the FINALS the previous season, as a contender!


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## CaronOwnsU (Sep 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>heatfan</b>!
> if it came down to loosing brad miller, or loosing reggie miller, who would u choose?
> 
> an aside...guys lets get this forum up again...ill try posting more here...everyone else try to do the same.


Personally, I would rather let Reggie walk simply because Jermaine and Brad are just amazing at the 4 and 5 spots.

Your GM, Donnie Walsh, though has publically stated many times that he will do anything in his power to keep Reggie Miller a Pacer for the remainder of his career.

The problem, however, is that your owner is luxary tax shy and Jermaine O'Neil will command the MAX next summer. Factor in a nice contract for Brad Miller right below the MAX and not much is left to resign Reggie.

I suspect this is why Austin Croshere is again on the trading block and getting more playing time. Donnie Walsh said that getting rid of his contract is priority #1 right now in order to free up more Cap Space for next summer. But, no team will take on his contract in this luxary tax era.

Donnie Walsh is a great GM and I am sure he will not let this scenario happen. But, you do stand a chance of losing Brad Miller if a team like Denver decides to ridiculously over pay for him and offers him some MAX dollars instead of going after Kandi as they are currently planning.


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## Absynth (Oct 1, 2002)

According to Walsh, he can resign every one. I don't see how its possible, he said we dont even need to move any one (chroshere) so i will just wait and watch the magic.

As for Brad, he might even sign with our right below max then the denvers max, cuz he...

loves playing with J.O.
doesn't spend his money (he drives a ford truck on the weekends)
We got him outta chicago, which he hated
and he went to purdue, so hes a hometown hero

That being said i still worry bout loosing him.


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## CaronOwnsU (Sep 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>heatfan</b>!
> According to Walsh, he can resign every one. I don't see how its possible, he said we dont even need to move any one (chroshere) so i will just wait and watch the magic.
> 
> As for Brad, he might even sign with our right below max then the denvers max, cuz he...
> ...


Actually, that is not true because of your owner's reluctance to enter into the salary and tax areas of teams such as Portland and New York.

But, Donnie is an outstanding GM and I really believe he will find a way to get it done. He has, however, stated on numerous occasions that moving Croshere's contract is a must.

Personally, I think the Pacers are in for one of the more interesting offseasons with alot boiling down to playoff performance.

IMO, Jermaine and Reggie are guaranteed to return. Brad Miller may be alittle more difficult to sign. Just my guess though.


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

I don't think JO would COMMAND the MAX.

I think he's extremely loyal to the team, and especially because they got him out of Portland and turned him into an all star.

I think Donnie will offer him the MAX, but I also don't think that the MAX will be needed to keep him. I think he would sign for something a bit less than the MAX ($10 mil. a year for example), BUT I don't think Walsh will take any chances and just give him the MAX.

I think Reggie would sign for $2 million, maybe even the vet's minumum... again, because of loyalty to the organization.

I also think Miller will re-sign for the same reason, but because of his all star season he'll probably want something like $8 million, which isn't bad, but it's not that good either.


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## jvanbusk (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Ron Artest</b>!
> You're crazy. The Lakers suck. The Pacers took New Jersey to double OT game in 5 last year and that team was nothing compared to this one. Sac owns Dallas and Indiana owns Sac. It's a nice formula.


And the Pistons own the Pacers, so your point being?


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## CaronOwnsU (Sep 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Budweiser_Boy</b>!
> I don't think JO would COMMAND the MAX.
> 
> I think he's extremely loyal to the team, and especially because they got him out of Portland and turned him into an all star.
> ...


Great points. I agree with you about Jermaine's loyalty to the Pacers. He and the organization are perfect together and I really believe that he will retire in a Pacer uniform when all is said and done.

But, even if Jermaine O'Neil wants to be loyal to the organization and help Walsh out due to cap restrictions, this will never happen. This is where agents and the Players Union comes into play in order to make sure that a player of Jermaine O'Neil's caliber reaps every cent that he is worth. Hence, Walsh will offer him the MAX.

And, unless the Pacers really prove during the coming playoffs that they are championship contenders, I really do not see Reggie Miller signing for the veteran's minimum. Just my opinion, but I couldn't even imagine Donnie Walsh offering the minimum to Reggie after all that he has meant to your franchise.

So, the problem IMO will be Brad Miller. His agent will ask for $9-10M per and Walsh's hands are going to be tied. Unless Walsh can convince Brad to accept a lower figure, I think that it is very possible he leaves via free agency.

Hopefully, Walsh can move Croshere or Mercer for expiring deals to free up more cap space so that this scenario never happens. Or, maybe, your owner will become less worried about paying such a huge luxary tax penalty and not be as restrictive on Walsh. IMO, if your team comes out of the East, I bet that luxary tax concerns will probably be less relevant.

Good luck this season.


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## Potatoe (Jun 17, 2002)

I can't see JO NOT demanding the max, Loyalty is one thing but he is one of the best players in the league and is well deserving of a "mega-deal".

Come on guys he's a solid citizen but there are very few "kirby Puckets" out there.


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## Absynth (Oct 1, 2002)

he'll command, deserve, and get the max.


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## CaronOwnsU (Sep 15, 2002)

Definately.... He will command the MAX.

Hell, with a player of Jermaine O'Neil's caliber, you guys may have to throw in an "under the table" Joe Smith type deal in addittion to the MAX. LOL!


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