# I applaud Greg Anthony



## Max Payne (Mar 2, 2004)

The guy had the guts to go out there and bring up the fact about inner city African American kids who get the short end of the stick because of the age limit or being forced to go to college. Mega props to your Mr Anthony.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

They do. Go ***** to the PA, they sold out. The owners kept GMs from taking riskier and riskier picks every year in the name of "potential". And the NCAA gets taken care of.

How about the vet 12th man that gets to keep his roster spot because the kid stays in school or goes NBDL.

Wow, a whole 3-5 kids a year are put out.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Yeah I thought that was cool. Greg Anthony is clearly going to do bigger things than sit next to Stephen A.


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## The Main Man (Aug 10, 2004)

Those kids can still go to the NBDL and make a decent amount of money for a year before going to the draft.


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## grizzos (Jan 31, 2005)

I cant believe espn put stephen a on the draft show. Give me a break!! I really like jay bilas, but screamin a knows nothing about the nba much less these players!!


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## Perfection (May 10, 2004)

I like Greg as a person and a player, but I really think that he is wrong on this one. The age limit is a business decision...agreed to by the player's union. The age limit allows improvements to both the NBA and NCAA in terms of quality of play and player development. I understand that a few players get screwed due to the age thing...but if they are good enough to make it at 18 then they certainly should be good enough to make it at 19 and with another season of college/nbdl ball or img training. 

Anyways, I'm tired of seeing players get picked and then sit for a couple of years until they play...and I'm a hardcore Portland fan...perhaps the franchise most notorious for taking guys that are 18-19 years old (Jermaine O'Neal, Zach Randolph, Travis Outlaw, Sebastian Telfair). I'd rather the spot be used by someone who might be useful...while the players really develop in college and bring more prestige and money to that sport as well.

Overall, I understand the issue with the age limit, but it really is necessary, and it is used in other sports such as Football effectively (and no one complains). 

LeBron James, Dwight Howard and Amare are the abnormalities of most players who come out of high school. More of them take the Kobe/McGrady/Garnett route of needing to develop. 

I'm willing making the 18 year olds wait one year, if it is for the benefit of the game, which I believe is certainly the case. I wouldn't mind a 20 year age minimum either, although 19 is a good start.


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## PoorPoorSonics (Mar 20, 2004)

*gasp* A few kids may have to go to a year of college instead of ride the bench in the NBA...a year of college! god what a terrible thing!

you sir, are a moron.


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## Pistolballer (May 9, 2003)

Perfection said:


> I like Greg as a person and a player, but I really think that he is wrong on this one. The age limit is a business decision...agreed to by the player's union. The age limit allows improvements to both the NBA and NCAA in terms of quality of play and player development. I understand that a few players get screwed due to the age thing...but if they are good enough to make it at 18 then they certainly should be good enough to make it at 19 and with another season of college/nbdl ball or img training.
> 
> Anyways, I'm tired of seeing players get picked and then sit for a couple of years until they play...and I'm a hardcore Portland fan...perhaps the franchise most notorious for taking guys that are 18-19 years old (Jermaine O'Neal, Zach Randolph, Travis Outlaw, Sebastian Telfair). I'd rather the spot be used by someone who might be useful...while the players really develop in college and bring more prestige and money to that sport as well.
> 
> ...


great post, and i agree completely


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## Nimreitz (May 13, 2003)

Perfection said:


> LeBron James, Dwight Howard and Amare are the abnormalities of most players who come out of high school. More of them take the Kobe/McGrady/Garnett route of needing to develop.
> 
> I'm willing making the 18 year olds wait one year, if it is for the benefit of the game, which I believe is certainly the case. I wouldn't mind a 20 year age minimum either, although 19 is a good start.


I don't think it's for the benefit of the game. Just consider these points...

1) Most NBA rotations don't go past the 8th man, and certainly not past 10. A vet can sit as the last man and not play, or a kid can sit and not play, but learn the game from NBA coaches and players. And now the benches are extended to 14 players. Greg Anthony could probably come out of retirement next year and find a roster!

2) The "Kobe/McGrady/Garnett" route? Didn't Kobe win the Dunk contest his rookie year? Wasn't he pretty much solidified as a star in his second season? And Garnett wasn't a dud either comming out of high school, he was playing straight away. The Lebron/Amare/Howard rounte also seems to be more RECENT. NBA scouting has adjusted and now the high end draft picks and highly rated high schoolers CAN come in and play. You don't KNOW that Darko and Dorell Wright can't play, they could be playing 30 minutes a night and doing well if they were in New Orleans for example, you have no idea.

3) The idea that college helps everyone (or anyone) more than a year in the NBA is just what we are supposed to believe because we're conditioned to think everyone should go to college, but the truth is if college was better for developing players the rate of high school players to the NBA becomming superstars would be lower and there would be more superstars comming from the college ranks. Is the level of play in the NBA helped more by a kid learning from NBA coaches and players for a year (on a bench or actually playing) or by having him learn his role in a structured system playing out of position in college for a year?

4) In truth, the veterans are not being protected. Well, at least not past the next two years. Just as many kids are going to come into the NBA in from the 2009 High School class regardless of the age limit, there are 30 guaranteed contracts every year, regardless of if there are kids who can contribute right away or not. It's just stupid to think an age limit protects veterans, it doesn't protect them any more than right now once we get to the 2007-2008 season.

Oh, and Greg Anthony is absolutely correct. Sebastien Telfair didn't go pro because he's greedy, he went pro so he could get his family out of that neighborhood. If he had to wait another year maybe his brother is shot, or his mother mugged, or sister raped.


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## LanierFan (Oct 5, 2004)

In Greg's world, 18-year-old kids are ready to compete with 400 of the most elite athletes in the world ... yet unable to complete with millions of average college students. That is a self-defeating myth. 

Black kids can do more than shoot jump shots if it is expected of them, no matter where they go to school. And Anthony's idea that the age limit discriminates against one race or another is nonsense. It only discriminates against players who are 18, period. And why does anyone owe them millions?


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

The Main Man said:


> Those kids can still go to the NBDL and make a decent amount of money for a year before going to the draft.


Not only that, but it's probably better for their development. In the long run, if the kids go to the NBDL, they'll probably be better off anyway. Besides, some of their "boys (or hangers on)" might disappear or lose interest while they're balling in Roanoke for a year. 

If it makes those HS studs go to the NBDL, I'm all for it. The NBA will not only be giving guys training, they'll be teaching life skills. College is not the real world, if anything it's just a bubble still under the umbrella of your parents. Real world is a ***** man.


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## SmithRocSSU (Jul 30, 2004)

Oh no! Those poor kids will get a FREE college education for at least a year and the whole NCAA experience instead of going to the NBA for at least a year. Whatever will they do? How dare the NBA make kids go to college. What about me? I grew up in a poor town and had PAY FOR MY WHOLE COLLEGE EDUCATION MYSELF! Those poor basketball players...I DON'T feel sorry for them.


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## sov82 (Nov 5, 2003)

If the NCAA is really about getting kids an education, they should respond to what the NBA has done and pay the kids playing ball a nominal fee ($10,000 a year?) since they can't work. Where do I get $10,000...

$20-30k a year for school paid by the school
$10k a year in Salary
-------------------
$40k a year -- these kids put in 50-60 hour weeks going to school/doing basketball so that seems like a fair wage.

The salary could also be hinged on class-room attendance and/or quality of classes taken.


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## kawika (May 7, 2003)

futuristxen said:


> Yeah I thought that was cool. Greg Anthony is clearly going to do bigger things than sit next to Stephen A.


I agree. I know nothing about him beyond sports, but that's not the first time I thought how he really comes across as being an exceptionally bright, articulate, well-spoken, etc. etc man. Seems like if he ever were to get tired of being part of ESPN's dog-and-pony show he could go into a lot of different non-basketball fields and be a big success. 

And whether people don't like his comments or whatever, it's still darn refreshing to actually hear them put so well and forcefully on the NCAA-rah-rah-Network. Oops. I mean, ESPN. 

Like Jermaine O'Neal, it takes some fortitude to stick your neck out there vs. the "party line" that exists in a lot of the media. I'm sure he will get hammered for his remarks by a lot of people, many of whom do, but won't admit to, having a strongly vested-interest in leeching off the Golden Goose of big time college hoops. More power to him.


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## DK (May 8, 2005)

sov82 said:


> If the NCAA is really about getting kids an education, they should respond to what the NBA has done and pay the kids playing ball a nominal fee ($10,000 a year?) since they can't work. Where do I get $10,000...
> 
> $20-30k a year for school paid by the school
> $10k a year in Salary
> ...


That would work if it wasn't illegal, immoral, and breaking the amateur status of the NCAA.


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## SmithRocSSU (Jul 30, 2004)

What are you people taking? They get a free education at a major college!!! They get living quarters, food, books, everything for free!!! And if they stay the 4 years, they have a backup if basketball doesn't work out. Look at Jay Williams and others who have gotten hurt. He finished his 4 years of college and has something to fall back on. Stop with all this crap about poor kids having to go to college. Just stop it. There are plenty of people who would love to go to college but can't afford it. It's a sweet deal and a great experience for them and good for college basketball. You all can take that "short end of the stick" and stick it! It's crap and you know it. I do like Greg Anthony, he's a great TV personality and a very smart man, but give me a break. I would have loved a free college education and the whole NCAA experience.


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## kawika (May 7, 2003)

DK said:


> That would work if it wasn't illegal, immoral, and breaking the amateur status of the NCAA.


How is it any of those things? Particularly interested in hearing how it's 'immoral' (!!!) for certain student-athletes (ie student-*employees*) to be paid a modest stipend by the multi-billion dollar corporation that is the NCAA. Immoral? Can't wait to hear this one.


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## The Mad Viking (Jun 12, 2003)

Sitting and watching and practicing are fine, but they do not develop a player nearly as well as playing, sitting, watching and practicing.

Going out for 5mpg in pressure situations and getting your *** handed to you, and then waiting 3 games for another handful of minutes is GOOD FOR YOU?

Give me a break.

T-Mac is a success story, but his first year in Toronto nearly broke his spirit. It was a terrible experience for him. 

A year in the NCAA would have been much, much better.

The NCAA environment also provides a graduated step towards independence that is very valuable for 18 year olds. You are away from home, dealing with lots of new experiences, and maybe on a small stage. But not quite the same as going suddenly from poverty to millionaire status, and from home to jet-setting across the country, on a nationally televised stage, where one lapse in judgement becomes a media story that can last for years.

This is a good step, and 20 would be better than 19, IMO.

Lebron & KG are the only two since Moses Malone who were truly ready. And really, it would have done them no harm to have had a season in the NCAA, and a chance at an NCAA Championship, like Carmelo. (Kobe competed well, but was pretty limited as a rookie. T-Mac contributed even less.)


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## Amplifier (Feb 7, 2005)

DK said:


> That would work if it wasn't illegal, immoral, and breaking the amateur status of the NCAA.


I agree but for different reasons. The money sports teams make does come back to the college and provides revenues for the educational programs. Not all of it I admit, but enough that it helps to better fund our education.

I remember another time in American History when we used black labor to help fund our education.. back in the 1850's.. we gave them free room and board and they worked 50 hours a week for us. Ah those were the days.

Why don't more young black men buy into this system?


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## DK (May 8, 2005)

kawika said:


> How is it any of those things? Particularly interested in hearing how it's 'immoral' (!!!) for certain student-athletes (ie student-*employees*) to be paid a modest stipend by the multi-billion dollar corporation that is the NCAA. Immoral? Can't wait to hear this one.


Illegal- You can't pay a person to go to college unless it is a scholarship. That's written in stone.
Immoral- A person should go to college for the learning experience and the adjustment to the real world, not for a 10K kickback.
The last one you'd have to be a dunce not to figure out.


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## kamego (Dec 29, 2003)

If a player in high school was in a horrible situation yet was a great basketball player, he could leave the country and drop out of high school. A guy like Lebron would have made millions playing overseas during high school and still would have been a top pick. If people want to make money bad enough, they will find ways to do it. I for one, like the idea of older players in the NBA.


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## kawika (May 7, 2003)

DK said:


> Illegal- You can't pay a person to go to college unless it is a scholarship. That's written in stone.
> Immoral- A person should go to college for the learning experience and the adjustment to the real world, not for a 10K kickback.
> The last one you'd have to be a dunce not to figure out.


I may be a dunce, but who are you to judge the motives for anybody to go to college? If you want to argue that eg the University of Kansas shouldn't be in the business of training basketball players to make a living at their profession, I'd actually agree to an extent, but that's not what you're saying. People have all kinds of reasons for attending college. I'm glad you're here to tell the rest us when and why it's OK to go college and when it's not. 

And please do look up immoral in the dictionary. Yes, you're right, it's the depths of depravity to pay a stipend beyond tuition to someone that generates enormous revenue for the university. If they allow this, next thing they'll start teaching classes in sleeping with your sister-in-law, defrauding old people and selling drugs to children.


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## Timmons (May 25, 2005)

futuristxen said:


> Yeah I thought that was cool. Greg Anthony is clearly going to do bigger things than sit next to Stephen A.


G.A. is the man. He should move on to some sort of GM job within 5 yrs. 

The age limit thing though does not harm 18 yr. olds. Go to the NBADL. Colleges would gladly bend the rules to let in kids anyway, even if it's just for a year. Revenue is too important for schools not to break rules. (hey I'm rhyming! :banana: )


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## knickstorm (Jun 22, 2003)

SmithRocSSU said:


> What are you people taking? They get a free education at a major college!!! They get living quarters, food, books, everything for free!!! And if they stay the 4 years, they have a backup if basketball doesn't work out. Look at Jay Williams and others who have gotten hurt. He finished his 4 years of college and has something to fall back on. Stop with all this crap about poor kids having to go to college. Just stop it. There are plenty of people who would love to go to college but can't afford it. It's a sweet deal and a great experience for them and good for college basketball. You all can take that "short end of the stick" and stick it! It's crap and you know it. I do like Greg Anthony, he's a great TV personality and a very smart man, but give me a break. I would have loved a free college education and the whole NCAA experience.


exactly, anthony doesnt talk about the inner city kid that gets tempted to jump to the pros, bomb out, and are never heard from again. If there was an age limit at least Korleone Young or Leon Smith would have started a college education. Now whose fault is it? Of course Anthony wont blame them he just talked about inner city kids looking to get out, but now do you blame the system for allowing them in the league at the time? 

When was the last time a top nba prospect decided to go to college or couldn't enter the draft for 1 reason or another and suffered some sort of debiliting injury? Who next year is going to suffer from this rule? Gerg Oden?? i dont think so.


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## gumpware (May 20, 2003)

We are talking about 5 to 10 kids a year who will be affected by the age limit. Granted, it might not be fair to those kids, but these kids do not represent the typical inner-city African-American kids. Greg Anthony makes it sound like thousands of kids are being screwed by this rule. Heck, half of those 5 to 10 HS players probably live in the suburbs.


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## Spittles (Jun 28, 2005)

A. This is not a race issue it is an economic issue. To inject race in this is a lose-lose situation. Greg is smarter than this.

B. One of the big reasons this was done was to establish the NBDL as a true minor league system. Stern has been wanting this for years.

C. If there is another Lebron type, he can go to NBDL for a year, sign a 30 million dollar sneaker contract and be perfectly happy. It is not like they will have any restrictions like they do in college.

D. Most kids who make themselves eligible have no desire to go to school period. College is not for everyone, it is a place to drink, smoke and have random drunked sexual experiences, and that is something some elite athletes have grown tired of by the age 18.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

No need to argue about this, because the top kids will go to the NBDL. I for one am happy with the age limit, because it gives me a chance to watch youngins' all going against each other.

I'm an NBDL fan now. Although, a modification that would have been nice, is if the kids like Lebron, Howard, Oden and Mayo, who were for sure No. 1 draft picks, were able to bypass the one year rule. They're too good and aren't going to gain jack, playing in college or the NBDL. They're pros immediately.


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## Nimreitz (May 13, 2003)

knickstorm said:


> exactly, anthony doesnt talk about the inner city kid that gets tempted to jump to the pros, bomb out, and are never heard from again. If there was an age limit at least Korleone Young or Leon Smith would have started a college education. Now whose fault is it? Of course Anthony wont blame them he just talked about inner city kids looking to get out, but now do you blame the system for allowing them in the league at the time?


Now whose fault is it? Last time I checked Korleone Young and Leon Smith were 18 year old adults when they chose to go pro and skip college. It's THEIR fault, it's not the system. Whose fault is it at the end of Fast Times at Ridgemont High when Judge Reinhold doesn't go to college and goes into the working world, it's his damn fault. Kids skip college and go to into the working world every year, millions of them! And you know what, some of them make the wrong choice! You know what Leon Smith can do now? Take the money he made on his rookie contract and GO TO COLLEGE!!! Most people who regret not going to college don't have the money and opportunity to actually go back and get a degree.

And speaking of Jay Williams graduating and falling back on his degree, yeah how's that working out? He's trying to come back to the NBA and he wasn't exactly teaching classes or making business investments when he was out, he was broadcasting games! He's NOT falling back on his education.

Here's the deal guys, the NBA drafts kids out of high school. If someone is willing to pay you a million dollars to play basketball (thinking that you are WORTH it) then what's the problem?


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## The Krakken (Jul 17, 2002)

SmithRocSSU said:


> What are you people taking? They get a free education at a major college!!! They get living quarters, food, books, everything for free!!! And if they stay the 4 years, they have a backup if basketball doesn't work out. Look at Jay Williams and others who have gotten hurt. He finished his 4 years of college and has something to fall back on. Stop with all this crap about poor kids having to go to college. Just stop it. There are plenty of people who would love to go to college but can't afford it. It's a sweet deal and a great experience for them and good for college basketball. You all can take that "short end of the stick" and stick it! It's crap and you know it. I do like Greg Anthony, he's a great TV personality and a very smart man, but give me a break. I would have loved a free college education and the whole NCAA experience.


This of course makes the grossly erroneous assumption that these kids are PREPARED for the academic rigors of "said education" to begin with. Most of them are not.


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## The Krakken (Jul 17, 2002)

Amplifier said:


> I agree but for different reasons. The money sports teams make does come back to the college and provides revenues for the educational programs. Not all of it I admit, but enough that it helps to better fund our education.
> 
> I remember another time in American History when we used black labor to help fund our education.. back in the 1850's.. we gave them free room and board and they worked 50 hours a week for us. Ah those were the days.
> 
> Why don't more young black men buy into this system?


So THAT explains why tuition is rising each year at an alrming rate..and why its at all-time highs.


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## Nimreitz (May 13, 2003)

Yeah, they just reran Anthony's rant on ESPN and I completely agree. First of all we are assuming all of these kids will even score high enough on the SATs or ACTs or even have a GPA high enough to go to college! KG took the thing like 3 or 4 times and just barely scored high enough on his SATs on the last attempt. Secondly, as Anthony pointed out, there is major class discrimination in public education in this country and many of the players out of high school are not exactly rich. Suburban schools get every advantage because of property taxes going directly to the school system where as urban schools are generally far worse off. Assuming kids comming from urban public schools can stay academically eligible after going from a very poor education that they were keeping a 2.5 GPA and then go to UConn, or UNC, or Duke, or Wisconsin and maintain their academic eligibility is assuming a lot. Especially from kids who just want to play basketball and are eyeballing the NBA the entire time they are in college.


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## sov82 (Nov 5, 2003)

Illegal - Please show me the state and or federal law that says it is illegal to pay a college student money generated by their activities. It is illegel to use federal funds and/or state grants to do this but it is not illegal, to the best of my knowledge, to use funds generated at a university by the university at its disgression (state schools may have compliance agreements under this depending on the state the school is in). It is against the NCAA rules however.

Immoral - Its immoral to pay a student who is making a university millions of dollars each year? Last time I checked, the NCAA and most professional sports have monopolistic characteristics that are waived by our government. I'd would have been more than willing to pay an extra $50 a year in tuition if it meant that the student-athletes were getting compensated for the revenue generating activities they produce, the free advertising for the university, and the name recognition that comes with going to a school that has a good program. 

Breaking Amateur Status - is $10,000 really a material amount of money for a years worth of work?


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## Nimreitz (May 13, 2003)

Well personally I won't pay the University of Wisconsin $50 a year so the athletes get paid because tuition has been raised year after year and the State is totally screwing us, so it's their responsibility; but I completely agree that student athletes should be paid. The University of Wisconsin (an example I know well) makes this university a REDICulous amount of money each year in ticket sales and bowl revenue. How any millions did the football team make by going to the Outback Bowl? We have the smallest student basketball section in the Big Ten and the alumni pay hundreds (thousands!) in donations to the athletic department to keep their tickets every year. We make millions upon millions on the backs of the men's football and basketball teams, and I think it's very fair that they should get some kind of stipend for their work. I'm surprised they even have time to sleep during the season!


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## sov82 (Nov 5, 2003)

Each month, I send the equivalent to a mortgage payment to pay down student loans. Whats another $50! Yes, school is expensive. Its worth it in the end though (unless you are a lotto pick!)

Schools can pay coaches millions of dollars a year with money generated by their activities. Yet they can't pay an athelete a immaterial amount of money a year to cover clothing (that doesn't have the school name on it), non-cafe food, and trips back home? Pleeeease.


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## cgcatsfan (Jun 10, 2005)

I have a hard time stomaching the whole propaganda that the NBA is spewing about this. They say it's to promote education and staying in school, and they are making players wait exactly one year. 
It's a largely meaningless gesture that is made to say they are doing something.
Meanwhile, the kids that weren't going to college won't and the ones who thought about it have greater incentive to jump earlier. 
It's a joke. 

All they are doing is legislating a personal decision and making it even more frustrating to be a college coach.


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## jalen5 (Nov 19, 2004)

My comments and feelings:

I feel exactly as Stephen A. Smith said. I UNDERSTAND why the NBA made this rule. I just DON'T AGREE with it. 1st of all, I think the 18 year old kids who are deemed good enough already to play in the pros should have the choice to go pro or to go to college. There are tons of kids that graduate high school and decide not to go to college and start working right away. They have the CHOICE. Why shouldn't a player like Greg Oden, LeBron James, Dwight Howard, and many more have the choice to go pro and make millions of dollars right out of high school just b/c some guys like Korleone Young and James Lang and others made the wrong decision???

In addition to my feelings that having an age limit is just flat out wrong, I also don't agree with many of the points made by some in favor of this age limit ruling. Kids are not going to get an education b/c of this ruling. Guys that have the talent to go pro out of high school will stay 1, maybe 2 years in college and then go pro anyway. The classes they are going to take that 1st year and even 2nd year in college are not going to be very high on a learning importance scale. They are going to take general education classes like biology, U.S. history, Western Civ, a basic math and english, etc. They are never going to take those main, important classes that are related to their major. I'm heading into my junior year at LSU and I have learned VERY LITTLE so far that will help me with my career when I graduate. The next few years I will learn and study the important stuff. However, those kids are never going to take these classes b/c they'll be gone after 1 or 2 years of college. 

I think the only reason Stern wants this is to help the NBA's image and to try to get NBA scouts out of high school gyms. This ruling does not help get kids a degree. It also does not improve the level of play in the NBA or help veterans. There are 30 1st round contracts to give out every year, regardless of whether or not the guy was in college for 1-4 years or the guy is coming out of high school. 

The only positive from this ruling is that it creates the NBDL as a "minor league" for the NBA. I like that idea. One question: If a kid coming out of high school decides to go straight to the NBDL, how is it decided what NBA teams he is playing for at the NBDL level? 

I think that, if you are going to make an age limit, you might as well make it one that will actually make a significant difference. I don't think a 19 year old and one year out of high school will make a significant difference. If there is going to be an age limit, I think they should make it 20 or 21. That would have a much more significant impact on everthing and everybody, as far as kids getting a GOOD education, NBA scouts out of high school gyms, players better developed etc. If you are going to do something wrong, you might as well do it wrong the right way.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

The age limit isn't about getting guys education. Guys like JR Rider stayed for 4 years and are still dickheads. You can't change a person's personality, just because they go to college.


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## Biggestfanoftheknicks (Apr 14, 2005)

The Main Man said:


> Those kids can still go to the NBDL and make a decent amount of money for a year before going to the draft.



It's almost like you're saying they're greedy. Btw this hurts young europeans who have to buy themselves out of their contract far worse than inner city kids who can make money in college, and the NBDL.


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## djtoneblaze (Nov 22, 2004)

PoorPoorSonics said:


> *gasp* A few kids may have to go to a year of college instead of ride the bench in the NBA...a year of college! god what a terrible thing!
> 
> you sir, are a moron.


It is a terrible thing.

That's wasting away a year of your life that you'll never get back.

Going to college is pointless if you don't get a degree, which these guys aren't getting and the colleges don't really care if they get anyway.


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## djtoneblaze (Nov 22, 2004)

Biggestfanoftheknicks said:


> It's almost like you're saying they're greedy. Btw this hurts young europeans who have to buy themselves out of their contract far worse than inner city kids who can make money in college, and the NBDL.


It doesn't hurt the Euros more.

If they don't want to buy out their contract, DON'T; they can just stay in Europe.


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## Amplifier (Feb 7, 2005)

So much self rightous ignorance in this thread.


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## Tragedy (Dec 9, 2002)

SmithRocSSU said:


> Oh no! Those poor kids will get a FREE college education for at least a year and the whole NCAA experience instead of going to the NBA for at least a year. Whatever will they do? How dare the NBA make kids go to college. What about me? I grew up in a poor town and had PAY FOR MY WHOLE COLLEGE EDUCATION MYSELF! Those poor basketball players...I DON'T feel sorry for them.


 How much money did they make for the school, compared to how much money YOU made for the school. Get back to me on that, thanks.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

the funny thing is, the ones who are "held back" by this rule, are the same kids who wouldn't get scholarships and wouldn't be the ones drafted anyways.

All this does is make kids wait for a year by going to college for a year. And like I said, those who wouldn't make it to college, in most cases wouldn't make it in the NBA anyways, or could try for the NBDL. Or hell, Europe, or the CBA. 

If you're good enough to go at 18, you're good enough that you'll make it somewhere. Be it college for *FREE*, or NBDL.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

Tragedy said:


> How much money did they make for the school, compared to how much money YOU made for the school. Get back to me on that, thanks.



if someone is giving me a free education, and potentially the avenue for millions, they can make all the money in the world off of me.

Allow them to have a job? Sure. Pay them because the school makes money off of them? Not likely.


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## MarvinWilliams#1in05 (Feb 13, 2005)

Max Payne said:


> The guy had the guts to go out there and bring up the fact about inner city African American kids who get the short end of the stick because of the age limit or being forced to go to college. Mega props to your Mr Anthony.


Mega props for playing the race card? OK??????


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## Tragedy (Dec 9, 2002)

Hap said:


> if someone is giving me a free education, and potentially the avenue for millions, they can make all the money in the world off of me.
> 
> Allow them to have a job? Sure. Pay them because the school makes money off of them? Not likely.


 I didnt say they should get paid, but its pointless in comparing these players to regular students, the circumstances are too different.

Same thing with what you say. Its easy to say that not being an athlete. Would you feel that same exact way if you are an elite college basketball player?


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

Tragedy said:


> I didnt say they should get paid, but its pointless in comparing these players to regular students, the circumstances are too different.
> 
> Same thing with what you say. Its easy to say that not being an athlete. Would you feel that same exact way if you are an elite college basketball player?


if someone was paying my education? Yah. If someone wasn't and I had to bust my *** to pay for college? Nope.


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## JerryWest (Jun 24, 2002)

HKF said:


> The age limit isn't about getting guys education. Guys like JR Rider stayed for 4 years and are still dickheads. You can't change a person's personality, just because they go to college.


LOL, great post


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## Tragedy (Dec 9, 2002)

Hap said:


> if someone was paying my education? Yah. If someone wasn't and I had to bust my *** to pay for college? Nope.


You'll simply never be able to differentiate yourself (going to college for an education) from athletes (going to college to PLAY BALL). It's ok, a lot of people can't do that either, you're actually in the majority.


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## knickstorm (Jun 22, 2003)

Nimreitz said:


> Now whose fault is it? Last time I checked Korleone Young and Leon Smith were 18 year old adults when they chose to go pro and skip college. It's THEIR fault, it's not the system. Whose fault is it at the end of Fast Times at Ridgemont High when Judge Reinhold doesn't go to college and goes into the working world, it's his damn fault. Kids skip college and go to into the working world every year, millions of them! And you know what, some of them make the wrong choice! You know what Leon Smith can do now? Take the money he made on his rookie contract and GO TO COLLEGE!!! Most people who regret not going to college don't have the money and opportunity to actually go back and get a degree.
> 
> And speaking of Jay Williams graduating and falling back on his degree, yeah how's that working out? He's trying to come back to the NBA and he wasn't exactly teaching classes or making business investments when he was out, he was broadcasting games! He's NOT falling back on his education.
> 
> Here's the deal guys, the NBA drafts kids out of high school. If someone is willing to pay you a million dollars to play basketball (thinking that you are WORTH it) then what's the problem?


right because 18 year olds who dont even care enough to decide who their president should be are smart enough to decide what to do with their lives. WHen you're 18 and you have everyone up the wazoo telling you to go pro, how are you not going to believe it. Is Chris Taft (18+) that stupid or was he mislead?? Yea you bring up Jay Williams but this guy was the #2 overall pick, and he's only what? 25-26??? So of course he's going to try to get back on the court, and he can do basketball games on tv because he speaks and carries himself well and that *has to do with getting a college education*. YOu think Kwame Brown if he got paralyzed tomorrow can go out and get a job doing games on TNT or something?? Course not, but i bet if kwame went to duke and got a degree, he'd be more capable of handling such a job because he'd be educated.

You're propping up the fact that Leon SMith can go to college with the money he got when he first entered?? First all, the dude probably blew through all of it as fast as it came in, and he could've gone to college for free.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

Tragedy said:


> You'll simply never be able to differentiate yourself (going to college for an education) from athletes (going to college to PLAY BALL). It's ok, a lot of people can't do that either, you're actually in the majority.


you're making this into an issue it's not. For starters, this was about inner city kids getting screwed over. When infact, it's not that many kids who DO go into the NBA out of high school and therefore putting an age limit on them doesn't really do much "holding back" of inner city kids.

And the ones that do get 'screwed' are the ones who wouldn't be making it in the NBA in the first place. And that's not the NBA's fault. It's not the NBA's fault that Lenny Cooke is a dumb ****. 

Besides, if these guys are actually good, they can just go into the NBDL (iirc) or Europe in the first place.

Now, back to your post here. The issue got highjacked into whether or not someone should get paid, because of how much money the athletes make for the school. It's a faulty argument, and really had nothing to do with the age limits. 


If someone was going to college to "play ball", and if they're good enough to play ball (and in their warped mind, play in the NBA), they'd be good enough to get a scholarship. And if they're not "smart" enough to go to college, there are colleges to go to where you can play still (junior colleges, community colleges, lower level colleges, etc). 

Also, if they're good enough period, as others have said, they'd probably get to play in the NBDL or the CBA or Europe. People are making this into a bigger issue (and bringing in race, which trivializes it) than it need to be. If anything, the age limit might actually save some of the guys from throwing away their amateur status, and any real shot at making the NBA.

Look at lenny cooke as I said earlier. if he got at least a year or 2 in some kind of college, he might have polished his game a bit more. Instead, he was stupid and tried to go straight into the NBA.


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## Nimreitz (May 13, 2003)

It's a farce to think these guys are getting an education. It's been brought up before, but what does 1 or 2 years do? It means nothing, it doesn't pay to go to college if you aren't going for a degree.

Leon Smith probably blew threw all of his money, ok so I still don't see why Greg Oden needs to suffer. You know what Leon Smith or Lenny Cooke or DeAngelo Collins are going to do? The same thing they would be doing if they weren't good at basketball, whether that means going to college, going to community college, or pumping my gas. So just because they are good at basketball someone has to protect them from the real world when they're 18, but millions of kids who choose unwisely to not go to college every year are not important? There's this garbage out there that assumes the NBA is at fault because kids come in and don't get drafted or just plain suck, no that's not true! It's the fault of the kids who make a bad life decision, just like the millions of 18 year olds who make poor life choices every single year.


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## christopher20 (Jun 24, 2005)

Justifying the discriminatory policy of the NBA's "age limit" as "a business decision"; or as "agreed upon by both sides, the players and management";or as not being unfair because it affects so few; or that other sports have it (the NFL but not baseball, golf or tennis); or that it is only for a short period that the player is being denied the right to enter the work force and be fairly paid for his extremely rare talent; misses the major point of the argument against it: the policy is unfair and descriminatory to those who are affected by it and it benefits all those who were instrumental in its enactment (NBA management, NBA players already in the league, all the major broadcast outlets, and major universities).

ESPN has a vested interest in ensuring that young talent is not taken away from the college ranks; they make a literal fortune each and every year from NCAA football and basketball telecasts. Moreover, all the other major media outlets share in the profits as do the profit driven institutions of higher learning. That is why the distortion of the relevant facts is so widespread; for example, Korleone Young is often cited as the poster-boy for high school draftee failures. According to most people in the media (including more than one New York Times reporter), Korleone was a total failure. However, that statement is an outright and multilayered deception. The overwhelming majority of players, particularly guards, drafted in the mid second round ( as Korleone was) never play in the league and get no contract. So was it unexpected that this mid second round pick did not make the league? No. Moreover, shortly after not making "the league," Korleone went on to play overseas where his income has been in the $450,000 per year range.This is not an abject failure by any stretch of the imagination.
When people say that fans are impatient because the players (Kobe, K.G., and Tracey) were bench warming for years before they contributed to the their teams, they should check the contributions of other "average" rookie draftees.


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## christopher20 (Jun 24, 2005)

SmithRocSSU said:


> Oh no! Those poor kids will get a FREE college education for at least a year and the whole NCAA experience instead of going to the NBA for at least a year. Whatever will they do? How dare the NBA make kids go to college. What about me? I grew up in a poor town and had PAY FOR MY WHOLE COLLEGE EDUCATION MYSELF! Those poor basketball players...I DON'T feel sorry for them.



Whether you feel sorry for them or withstood more abuses than these select few high school athletes is immaterial to the argument. Moreover, you were obliged to pay for your education because you did not possess or demonstrate any extremely rare and marketable/exploitable talent as these high school kids do. While being "given" $30,000 worth of education and expenses may seem like a terriffic bargain to you, the free market has already clearly established (repeatedly) that these young athletes' playing time is worth between one and four million dollars per year. Proportionately, this would be similar to the average worker, who is earning 40 thousand dollars per year, being forced to work as hard and long and then being paid only forty to one hundred and fifty dollars for their entire year's work: this would certainly produce a great deal of anger and frustration on the workers' part.
The behavior is discriminatory and unfair; whether you can empathise with the athletes' predicament is wholly immaterial. Moreover, the discriminatory behavior benefits all those involved in its implementation and formulation of the public's (anti-athlete)sentiments/beliefs: the NBA management, major broadcasters/media outlets, and universities.


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