# OT: This board is turning!



## sa1177 (Feb 18, 2005)

A few months ago I came to BBB.net from ESPN boards becuase I was tired of the negativity, ranting and whining. It wasn't about Basketball or the Blazers anymore but just folks pissing and moaning. Sure we are all entitiled to our oppinions and in my oppinion this whining and *****ing is getting a bit ridiculous. We are here to discuss hoops and the Blazers not to trash the team, players, gm or others. 

I am here because I am excited about this team and a fan regardless of the moves they make or how many games they win. Apparently this isn't the case for some "fair weather fans" out there. Maybe it's time for those folks to take their posts and their tears elsewhere and let the rest of us true fans discuss *OUR* team.


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## YardApe (Mar 10, 2005)

:cheers:


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## BIG Q (Jul 8, 2005)

I think it would be nice if we had an ignore button that we can utilize to skip over negative posters. The same people are posting the same rants, over and over and over again! 

When the team turns the corner they will stop complaining and start telling you they never lost faith. They will always stop by once a week to stir the pot and then leave. Just let them do their bit and when they leave things will get positive again.

We are allowed to believe in this rebuilding with youth movement if we want. Others can complain about wasted assets all they want, but we know those players really had little value.


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## YardApe (Mar 10, 2005)

There is definitely a pecking order on this board. Some of the older posters here can't admit that things should change, and have. Many of these guys would be in hog heaven if Bonzi, Sheed and Damon were still here.

Making the first round of the playoffs and out makes a handful of these posters very satisfied.


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## jwhoops11 (Nov 26, 2003)

I don't know, if you get rid of any or all posts that are an anyway negative about the team, you make this site way to vanilla. The one thing I appreciated about ESPN in it's hay day, was that we discussed and debated everything in life, not just the Blazers. We had great conversations on religion, politics, life in general, and ya, sometimes we even got our feathers ruffled a bit, but it helped pass the time during the work day. 

I'm not trying to disrespect the people who have posted here for ever, but I often think individual thinking is in no way encouraged, but more so discouraged. The posting of (most) off topic threads have been moved to a section I doubt many people ever look at, if you aren't a hardened "new regime" supporter you are looked at as not a true fan, and if you dare question the opinions the "true fans", you are dog piled by many poster questioning "why even post here?"

I guess in general, I appreciate all Blazer related material, good or bad. I don't think the posters here should take it personal if there is a person or two that likes to rain on the parade of the "half cup full" fans on this board. Overall, I'd say keeping an open mind to EVERYONES opinion is a good thing.


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## Utherhimo (Feb 20, 2005)

i am gald sheed, bonzi, da....etc are finally gone and we are moving away from the whitless jailblazers, wins are nice but only when you have a team that doesnt act like a butnch of jr high schoolers.

at elast we arent the yankees this year!


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

YardApe said:


> There is definitely a pecking order on this board. Some of the older posters here can't admit that things should change, and have. Many of these guys would be in hog heaven if Bonzi, Sheed and Damon were still here.


sort of amusing to see three posters new to the board telling those of us who've been here a while how things should be and what our opinions are... welcome btw.

I'm an _older poster_ and have been discussing hoops with this same community of posters for over 5 years now. I'm not happy with how things have evolved, but of the three you listed the only guy I'd be interested in having on the current club is Wallace because he's a better then average starter... in general the thing would put me in "hog heaven" as a Blazer fan is if the club had more talent. It does bug me that management has pissed away so many assets for so little in return. Of course I'm not privy to all the details of what was available and at what cost, but many things about the decision making over the past few years are at least pretty suspect IMO. 

It was tough for me to understand why our GM wasn't interested in Baron Davis (as relayed by emails and his actions) or why last season he signed Darius Zach and Theo to pretty much the top dollar they could possibly command, especially when he still had a year to make up his mind on Zach and Theo and choose to give them fat extentions. Watching the expiring deals walk for nothing while not planning on trading for more space clearing expiring deals so as to be able to resign Joel is baffling as well. I'm not too pyched about having 5 SFs going into this year either.

As a Blazer fan I guess I have to pin my hopes on the down the line potencial of the youngsters (including next years likely high pick). Hopefully it's crystal clear to Nash from what he's seeing in practice that he's already got the pieces and that other players would just get in the way.

STOMP


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## Foulzilla (Jan 11, 2005)

I hate it when people throw around "true fan". People have a right to be negative when the team was one of the worst teams in the league last year (regardless of the reason). They have every bit as much right as other people do when they are positive and thinking the team can make the playoffs. It does not make them any more or less of as fan. If they truly weren't a fan, they wouldn't care and thus wouldn't post at all (this does not apply to people who are obviously trolling for attention).


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## graybeard (May 10, 2003)

Oh good, now we have a thread in which we can *complain* about the people that *complain*. :eek8:


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## SheedSoNasty (Dec 31, 2002)

Don't let these mixum threads get you down, he comes out of hybernation around this time and brings the general morale of the board down. There is an ignore option in the 'user cp' section. Use it.


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## BlazerCaravan (Aug 12, 2004)

I only wish the ignore feature made the threads he starts not show on the board.


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

True Fans rant because it slays them to see the team they love so much doing as poorly as teh Blazers figure to do.

True Fans also back their team regardless, love them when their down look forward to a brighter time in the franchise..

Guess we're all true fans, but we all have different criteria as to what pleases us about the team, some are able to adjust and be pleased by the prospect while others simply wnat wins.

That being sais we deffinately have a poster or 2 that seemingly find disaster in every aspect of everything..


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## SheedSoNasty (Dec 31, 2002)

I think you hit it right on the head, Schilly.


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## BlayZa (Dec 31, 2002)

some fans are optomistic , some are realistic , some are pessimistic . doesnt make any of them less of a fan as the real situation we are in is a mixture of the above positions. i know everyone bags mixum but i think he is good for the board , who wants a board of Yes-men? and a lot of what he says is accurate and i think peoples opinions of him personally cloud the responses he gets to his points.


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## Nightfly (Sep 24, 2002)

Guys, if you want to ignore mixum's posts, or anyone's for that matter, you can do a number of things.

Click into the user's profile, and choose "Ignore user."

You can also type in a user's name into your Ignore list found in your user control panel.

http://www.basketballboards.net/forum/profile.php?do=editlist

If you are having trouble with this, please PM me and I'll help you.


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## RedHot&Rolling (Jun 26, 2004)

sa1177 said:


> ....It wasn't about Basketball or the Blazers anymore but just folks pissing and moaning. ......Maybe it's time for those folks to take their posts and their tears elsewhere and let the rest of us true fans discuss *OUR* team.


No, this board isn't turning. It is simply going through its normal, every-6-months adjustment. This has happened many-a-time before, as there is little *news* to discuss.

*Everyone *- needs to think twice before responding (except to mXXXX's posts - then don't respond at all) and choose to ignore thoughts/ideas you don't enjoy, rather than trying to fight through words.

BBB.net would be a boring place if everyone agreed on everything!

Trail Blazers fans have an opportunity to re-commit to the fanaticism of the team - as we aren't a contender worth bragging about. This is a no-bandwagon year!!


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## Nightfly (Sep 24, 2002)

RedHot&Rolling said:


> No, this board isn't turning. It is simply going through its normal, every-6-months adjustment. This has happened many-a-time before, as there is little *news* to discuss.
> 
> *Everyone *- needs to think twice before responding (except to mXXXX's posts - then don't respond at all) and choose to ignore thoughts/ideas you don't enjoy, rather than trying to fight through words.
> 
> ...


Well put!


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## Paxil (Jan 1, 2003)

In general this tends to be the time of year for rants... it is a pattern I have noticed while lurking for a few years. =) Once camp starts it will start to get better... just Blazer addicts getting jittery because they aren't getting a puff of their Blazer cig.


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## BlazerFanFoLife (Jul 17, 2003)

yah we usualy get a this board is changing for the worse topics during late offseason or late basketball season when the blazers are going no where and most of the published stuff is about the future


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

BlayZa said:


> some fans are optomistic , some are realistic , some are pessimistic . doesnt make any of them less of a fan as the real situation we are in is a mixture of the above positions. i know everyone bags mixum but i think he is good for the board , who wants a board of Yes-men? and a lot of what he says is accurate and i think peoples opinions of him personally cloud the responses he gets to his points.


Unfortunately all who are Pessimistic and all who are optomistic think they are realistic.


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## kaydow (Apr 6, 2004)

Utherhimo said:


> i am gald sheed, bonzi, da....etc are finally gone and we are moving away from the whitless jailblazers, wins are nice but only when you have a team that doesnt act like a butnch of jr high schoolers.
> 
> at elast we arent the yankees this year!



First of all, the Yankees win. 5 world series titles since '96, 7 world series appearances, and I think there's only been 1 time in the last 10 years they haven't won their devision . . . and that year they won the wild card and went on to win the world series. Don't get me wrong, I'm a Yankee hater, but if the Blazers could trade places--wouldn't you do it? They spend a lot of money, go way over the cap, and STILL MAKE MORE money than any other franchise in baseball.


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## sa1177 (Feb 18, 2005)

Folks this was simply something I wanted to point out and i think I have had some very insightful and excellent responses. Please understand this has nothing to with a rift between those of you who have posted here a for a long time and those like me who haven't. Remember I came here to BBB.net because I liked what you oldtimers posted and I respected your knowledge and passion about the team. 

To put it blunt, I just see no reason for those who continue to post negative posts constantly to be here. Thanks for all the advice and I hope this board stays on top as the #1 Blazer board around.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

I like the Blazers enough to criticize them when they stray from the correct path.


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## Backboard Cam (Apr 29, 2003)

I have mixum on "Ignore," but the threads still show up. Hard to ignore a thread with 4 pages of replies. 

[strike]I've said it before, mixum is an internet troll by every definition. Most other forums would have banned him a long time ago. The mods are allowing him to troll, so he keeps doing it.

Ban that guy now, please.[/strike]


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

sa1177 said:


> To put it blunt, I just see no reason for those who continue to post negative posts constantly to be here.


to put it bluntly, I see no reason for you to be here either... but you are, and you have an opprotunity to weigh in like everyone else. I like that everyone can give their two cents here be it overboard negative, positive, thoughtful, deranged, off the wall funny or whatever... the more input the better IMO. But I don't respect that you (and others) are trying to bully those who you disagree with off the board... not at all.. especially as a johnny come lately. If you don't like it here please feel free to take your own advice.

STOMP


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## barfo (Jan 2, 2003)

Why is there so much complaining about other people's opinions here? 

This board is a fairly diverse group of people, lots of variation in age, ethnicity, education, gender, political leanings, wealth, marital status, sexual orientation, location, body hair, facial tics, hemmoroids, gaping flesh wounds, etc. etc.

Why would anyone expect us all to agree on anything? 

Why would anyone want that? 

barfo


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## BlayZa (Dec 31, 2002)

variety is the spice of life

for every mixum thread saying the team is crap there is at least one other saying telfair / webster / outlaw whoever is the greatest thing since sliced bread and a starplayer... really who is futher from reality? 

its a message board guys, nobody is making anyone respond to any post - if you dont wanna read a poster's threads you KNOW is going to start you off, why bother?


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## MARIS61 (Apr 28, 2003)

The Blazers have been Pash Natterson's team for 2 years now.

They have been my team, win or lose, since the early 70's, which is also the last time they had anything close to the pathetic record they posted last year, so if I get a little concerned about some of the moves or non-moves made by management lately there's no reason to assume I am any less a "true fan" than those who happily rubber-stamp everything the front office does or says.

I believe I finished last or 2nd to last in the prediction game this year because I simply can't bring myself to publicly say my team will lose the next game, even if I'm pretty sure they will.

They are my team and I have to believe they have a chance to win, each time they play, no matter who they face, no matter what the oddsmakers say. I will always cheer them on.

I see no benefit in hiding my head in the sand and pretending that everything management does is right. I see no benefit in pretending everything management does is wrong. It's usually about 50/50, and a wise man once told me "if you've got 50%, then you've got about half".

It's up to Nate and the boys to supply the other half, and I believe they will, sooner than many fans think.

BTW, why is everyone so afraid of Mixum's posts? He's obviously a passionate fan who cares about his team, so why not give him a little slack?

BO BLAZERS! :banana:


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

STOMP said:


> to put it bluntly, I see no reason for you to be here either... but you are, and you have an opprotunity to weigh in like everyone else.
> STOMP


And one could say the same about you as well...


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## NBAGOD (Aug 26, 2004)

> I hate it when people throw around "true fan". People have a right to be negative when the team was one of the worst teams in the league last year (regardless of the reason). They have every bit as much right as other people do when they are positive and thinking the team can make the playoffs. It does not make them any more or less of as fan. If they truly weren't a fan, they wouldn't care and thus wouldn't post at all (this does not apply to people who are obviously trolling for attention).


Agree 100%. IMO, everyone has a right to their opinion, positive or negative....as long as they back it up with facts. The reality is that this is a team bottoming out after over 30 years of being competitive. Saying that negative posters shouldn't be here is like saying that critics of the Iraq situation are unpatriotic. 

Personally, I find the reality challenged "homers" to be more irritating than those who tell it like it is.....to each his own.


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

zagsfan20 said:


> And one could say the same about you as well...


yup, thats my point... not sure how you missed it. I (and everyone else) choose to post on this site. I do this dispite there being some posters who I almost always disagree with. I don't throw a tantrum/tell them to go away every time they post something that doesn't sit well with me though... I either disagree in a post or ignore their nonsense. 

If things on the board truly turned to the point that I was uncomfortable here then I would not post/read anymore... I certainly wouldn't personally attack another poster in response to every new post they make like some of the new guys here have been doing. (IMO) Thats very boring reading for everyone, and it certainly isn't talking hoops.

Btw, the board hasn't turned one bit IMO. In the offseason it's always been filled with those who go overboard in one manner or another. Come the regular season things tend to balance out.

STOMP


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## sa1177 (Feb 18, 2005)

> especially as a johnny come lately


I can't understand why it matters if someone started posting here yesterday or the day the board opened. It's comical that you think since you have 3227 post or whatever number that you command more respect then anyone else here. 

I came here because I respected those of you who started this board and I value your insight and input. I apologize if people think I am trying to drive others from this board. Negative and positive oppinions are certainly what keeps this board balanced and interesting. It seems to me that certain folks are just here to BASH BASH BASH which seems unproductive and pointless to me. 

In the future I will just choose to ignore those folks and let them wallow in there own negativity.


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## Foulzilla (Jan 11, 2005)

sa1177 said:


> It seems to me that certain folks are just here to BASH BASH BASH which seems unproductive and pointless to me.


This is true on most message boards. There are always some people who troll for attention. They enjoy seeing people get upset (no, I don't understand why). 

Just be careful not to classify all negativity as a troll. Some people think the Blazers are making poor decisions, yet care about the team. They are not just here to "bash bash bash", but to present an alternate opinion. 

This is a board for debate, I'm glad some people don't share my views personally or else I'd get real bored real fast.


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## sa1177 (Feb 18, 2005)

> Just be careful not to classify all negativity as a troll. Some people think the Blazers are making poor decisions, yet care about the team. They are not just here to "bash bash bash", but to present an alternate opinion.


Excellent point I think this is where I made a mistake, yet I can't point out the consistent Bashers by name either since this is not allowed, so it's frustrating.


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

sa1177 said:


> Excellent point I think this is where I made a mistake, yet I can't point out the consistent Bashers by name either since this is not allowed, so it's frustrating.


Trust me on this...it's frustrating for everyone


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

sa1177 said:


> I can't understand why it matters if someone started posting here yesterday or the day the board opened. It's comical that you think since you have 3227 post or whatever number that you command more respect then anyone else here.


Where have I ever said anything like that? I said _"I don't respect that you (and others) are trying to bully those who you disagree with off the board... not at all.. especially as a johnny come lately. If you don't like it here please feel free to take your own advice."_ 



> I apologize if people think I am trying to drive others from this board.


guess why I thought that...



> Maybe it's time for those folks to take their posts and their tears elsewhere and let the rest of us true fans discuss OUR team.


It's their team too, and they care enough to trash it when they feel that the club is making bad moves. Even if I disagree with a post I respect a poster's right to feel that way and am glad that they are here.



> In the future I will just choose to ignore those folks and let them wallow in there own negativity.


Or feel free to respond to them and point out why you feel differently. Try not to take it as a personal afront if someone holds a different view about a team that we all care about.

STOMP


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## sa1177 (Feb 18, 2005)

> Where have I ever said anything like that?





> especially as a johnny come lately


If I understand the above quote then I am "Johnny," so I guess I am confused as to what you meant by this.


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## BIG Q (Jul 8, 2005)

STOMP said:


> sort of amusing to see three posters new to the board telling those of us who've been here a while how things should be and what our opinions are... welcome btw.
> 
> I'm an _older poster_ and have been discussing hoops with this same community of posters for over 5 years now. I'm not happy with how things have evolved, but of the three you listed the only guy I'd be interested in having on the current club is Wallace because he's a better then average starter... in general the thing would put me in "hog heaven" as a Blazer fan is if the club had more talent. It does bug me that management has pissed away so many assets for so little in return. Of course I'm not privy to all the details of what was available and at what cost, but many things about the decision making over the past few years are at least pretty suspect IMO.
> 
> ...


I guess you should know that while my post count is no where near yours, I would venture to say I am every bit as knowledgeable regarding the Blazers as the next poster. I was a season ticket holder when I lived in Portland. Now that I am in Arizona I see the Blazers live twice a year here, and I get league pass. I have cought games while on trips back to Portland.

I did not have a need for a message board prior to living in Arizona. All of my friends back home are Blazer fans and we discussed all things Blazers frequently. That is not the case while living in Arizona. 

Do not think that us new posters are here taking over and upsetting the cart. But there is nothing funny about it either. We have been through it all. I was at the Garden when we melted down against the Lakers in game 7. I know that we were 37-45 in 75-76, the season prior to winning the title. I also know that we were a ridiculously young team that had never played one playoff game. We lost 3 of 4 to the Lakers that season. I know the following season we were 50-10 when Walton went down and we ended the season on a 8-14 skid. I remember listening to Schonely on the radio from Boston that season. We had just blown Boston out at the Garden by 40+ and the Celtics fans gave Walton and gang a standing O for playing such an incredible game. I remember listening to Schonz calling the "great train robbery" that extended our home court win streak that we lost shortly after. I know the year the Celtics won 40 of 41 at home, the lone loss was to the Blazers.

I also know that on Mar 2, 1962 Wilt scored 100 points in Hershey, Pa. against the Knicks. He made 36 field goals and 28 of 32 FT's. I can go on and on. This is just useless stuff I have stored up in my brain over the years. It is the fruits of my NBA fandom. I am 40, when I was in grade school I did my book reports on NBA players autobiographies that I had been reading. I know the history of the game. I have seen it at its lowest, the 86 draft.

I may know a thing or two so just because I am amusing you with my being new to this board does not make me want to yield one bit. If there is a "good ole boy" thing going on here then I missed it prior to joining. I am not good at falling into a pecking order.

I am not trying to convince you one way or the other. But I sure do like my stance, and the direction of the team. I do not think for one second that PA will allow his team to be mired in mediocrity. We are not there now. We have a roster full of young, promising players, just like he wanted. They may not be projected to win a lot of games, but they will improve. The cream will rise to the top. How could you conclude otherwise? Then you fill in the holes through the draft, trades and free agency and you are back at the top. This will not be a Clippers situation. Sterling just does not want to spend money ,PERIOD! Paul Allen will spend his money, but not overspend anymore. Just my observations and facts I have culled from listening to Blazers management. 

I look forward to 3000+ posts. That will mean my business will continue to thrive down here and I can not go home so I will have to stay with you on this board. :cheers:


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## sa1177 (Feb 18, 2005)

> I guess you should know that while my post count is no where near yours, I would venture to say I am every bit as knowledgeable regarding the Blazers as the next poster. I was a season ticket holder when I lived in Portland. Now that I am in Arizona I see the Blazers live twice a year here, and I get league pass. I have cought games while on trips back to Portland.
> 
> I did not have a need for a message board prior to living in Arizona. All of my friends back home are Blazer fans and we discussed all things Blazers frequently. That is not the case while living in Arizona.
> 
> ...


My sentiment exactly, well put.__________________


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

sa1177 said:


> If I understand the above quote then I am "Johnny," so I guess I am confused as to what you meant by this.


It's like if some guy has wandered into your party. You hand him a beer and say _welcome!_... but then he starts complaining about your brand of beer and politely asks you to leave. Thats when you show Johnny the...

http://www.aquamarinasxm.com/Images/Entrance door details.jpg

I hope you like it here (warts and all) and are a regular contributer... in general the more the merrier... but I'm sure that this isn't the Blazer chatsite for everyone. 

STOMP


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## sa1177 (Feb 18, 2005)

> It's like if some guy has wandered into your party. You hand him a beer and say welcome!... but then he starts complaining about your brand of beer and politely asks you to leave. Thats when you show Johnny the...


Ok I get what your saying and don't disagree with the idea of it but frankly I don't think it's your right to show anyone "the door" here. If a MOD or founder had said this I might feel differently. 

Thanks for the clarification, and I never meant to ask anyone like you to leave, I value your insight and knowledge, it's why I came to this "party."


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

BIG Q said:


> If there is a "good ole boy" thing going on here then I missed it prior to joining. I am not good at falling into a pecking order.


I don't recognize any sort of "pecking order" here and would rather not have a post count appear next to my name as I take no pride in my postcount... in fact, it's sort of a bad reminder of how much time I've spent composing thoughts on a team I only get to see live a few times a year to posters I've never met. 

A couple of my favorite posters have been here only a short while, and some of my least favorite posters are some of the "good ole boys." The thing I've been taking issue with in this and other recent threads is you and some others telling other posters that they aren't welcome here. Thats not OK at all. 

Anyways, I hope this isn't misconstrued in any way. Growing up in NC as a kid and moving to Portland in '76, I've been a Bball junkie for all my life. I post here more days then not because of this Jones and I appreciate having this board filled with other addicts. So welcome! but please don't try to drive off the others.

STOMP


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## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

Whatever. The more the merrier. Who cares when you started posting here? I sure as hell don't. 

The only problem I have is people who basically post the same dumb *** thing EVERY time they post.


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## BIG Q (Jul 8, 2005)

STOMP said:


> It's like if some guy has wandered into your party. You hand him a beer and say _welcome!_... but then he starts complaining about your brand of beer and politely asks you to leave. Thats when you show Johnny the...
> 
> http://www.aquamarinasxm.com/Images/Entrance door details.jpg
> 
> ...


I love your analogy as I am a beer drinker. I think the dispute here is that you have not proposed what you consider your returning value for SAR, DA, Damon and NVE is. What trade(s) would you propose? We have no starting point to agree/disagree or argue with you. You just say they (Blazers) should have gotten something, and since they didn't you dislike the direction/management, and then we have these discussions where I defend the youth movement but have no idea what you want, other than "something."


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

sa1177 said:


> Ok I get what your saying and don't disagree with the idea of it but frankly I don't think it's your right to show anyone "the door" here.


It's not my right at all... I was just trying to express the same thing I said before without being redundant. I originally said _"If you don't like it here please feel free to take your own advice"_... which was...


> Maybe it's time for those folks to take their posts and their tears elsewhere and let the rest of us true fans discuss OUR team.


The Blazers are Mixim's favorite team too and I hope that he stays at bbb.net continuing to weigh in with his 2 cents. If you don't like what he or others have to say, then please activate your ignore function in the user CP... or counter his assertions with your views. Just don't make it personal. 

STOMP


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

STOMP said:


> The Blazers are Mixim's favorite team too and I hope that he stays at bbb.net continuing to weigh in with his 2 cents. If you don't like what he or others have to say, then please activate your ignore function in the user CP... or counter his assertions with your views. Just don't make it personal.
> 
> STOMP


Interesting thing is that mixums opinions don't really differ all that much from several other posters on the board. The difference is presentation. Personally I like haveing differing opinions on the board, but I don't like people suggesting that everyone who disagrees with them is an idiot or gulllable. SO I read mixums posts and ignor the ionferred insults or jabs and really try to focus on what he is saying. 

Personally I think if people would respond to his opinions about the team insted of taking the time to make jabs at him, beg him to leave, beg him to be banned etc etc, he actually may find a way to exist here if he realizes that we don't take his "bait" by responding with inflamatory responses.


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## Scout226 (Sep 17, 2003)

STOMP said:


> The Blazers are Mixim's favorite team too and I hope that he stays at bbb.net continuing to weigh in with his 2 cents. If you don't like what he or others have to say, then please activate your ignore function in the user CP... or counter his assertions with your views. Just don't make it personal.



For me, I haven't seen one thing that shows me the Blazers are "his" favorite team. [strike]I also believe he only weighs in with about 1 cent.[/strike] IMO, wanting "him" to stick around and "weigh in" on things, makes be believe a few people love to see disruption and hate (THIS IS JUST MY OPINION  ). Like someone else mentioned, many have "his" same views sort of, but they can say something similar but in a lot nicer way. People seem to get sensored when they respond personally at said poster, but about 99% of his posts toe the line doing the same thing to all the people who dissagree with him.


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

BIG Q said:


> What trade(s) would you propose? We have no starting point to agree/disagree or argue with you. You just say they (Blazers) should have gotten something, and since they didn't you dislike the direction/management, and then we have these discussions where I defend the youth movement but have no idea what you want, other than "something."


Geez there are so many different good things they could have done with the various assets. Basically I've felt (and posted) that when the new management took over they should have committed either to slashing salaries and getting below the cap to add the right FA's to compliment their youngins, or to operating above the line and retooling on the fly well above the cap... but as it stands they've pretty much half bleeped it (IMO) and left themselves in purgatory going with the youth movement but over the cap and very unlikely to be able to resign their young stud center.

I called the Sheed trade a disaster from the get go... I wanted a Detroit-esk deal of picks and expiring deals to go below the cap and rebuild from the ground up. After the ridiculous contracts extended to Theo, Zach, and Darius, I thought OK they've decided to operate above the line, so I called all last year for them to acquire Baron Davis who was obviously on the block. Of course the W's got him for Dale freaking Davis (I am slamming the keys on my keyboard as I write that). 

With Joel's emergence, I felt that they needed to either package him with NVX to a team near the cap line who'd be able to clear Nicks $ and be able to resign JP in exchange for quality player(s) under contract and/or picks or move out some of their own future picks/prospects combined with some of their bad contracts for expiring deals to be able to resign him themselves. Well NVX's deal is gone so the first option is out. With the waiving of DA and signing of Dixon the second option is even less likely. Nash's own words (relayed in emails to this board) point to him keeping Joel as a Blazer through this season and that he doesn't think they'll be able to attain the expiring deals necessary to resign him. For me thats a maddening deer in the headlights stategy guarenteed to lose him for nada. Man I hope that doesn't happen... I'd looooove to have my concerns here proved to have been misheld.

I would have supported moving Damon and/or SAR midseason to teams in want of salary cap relief for the 2005 offseason in exchange for picks and overpriced players with contracts expiring 2008 or before. DA, Rube, and Theo would be cleared by that point, and the team would presumably have even better young talent to add the right FA('s) to.

Basically I would have supported the club taking the high or the low road but they've choosen to try to blaze their own path through the brush instead. I've advocated bold moves, instead they've half bleeped it and ended up with a poor short term outlook and a future outlook that could have been much much brighter.

Anyways... thats my rant... well part of it.

STOMP


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## BIG Q (Jul 8, 2005)

STOMP said:


> Geez there are so many different good things they could have done with the various assets. Basically I've felt (and posted) that when the new management took over they should have committed either to slashing salaries and getting below the cap to add the right FA's to compliment their youngins, or to operating above the line and retooling on the fly well above the cap... but as it stands they've pretty much half bleeped it (IMO) and left themselves in purgatory going with the youth movement but over the cap and very unlikely to be able to resign their young stud center.
> 
> I called the Sheed trade a disaster from the get go... I wanted a Detroit-esk deal of picks and expiring deals to go below the cap and rebuild from the ground up. After the ridiculous contracts extended to Theo, Zach, and Darius, I thought OK they've decided to operate above the line, so I called all last year for them to acquire Baron Davis who was obviously on the block. Of course the W's got him for Dale freaking Davis (I am slamming the keys on my keyboard as I write that).
> 
> ...


Good stuff. I agree with the Sheed deal. I also would have prefferred expirings and picks also. Unfortunately the Blazers changed course after this deal. They did not see that big contracts were now becoming albatroses and cap flexibility was what is now needed.

While I agree with you about the W's stealing Baron, what should Portland have sent? Would they have taken Damon? You know they would be insisting on Telfair, only natural. Should Nash have offered Telfair? Was Baron worth that much given his injury history?

I think the Blazers have taken the low road. That being clearing out overpaid players that fein injury and over dribble the ball. What they would have gotten in trade was more overpriced players that were being dealt for a reason, they had most likely burned all of their bridges with their current teams, such as Baron. 

I do not see much to gain from doing this. Sure, some more wins, but the West is so deep that they would have been mired in the eighth spot or end of the lottery. Why not get some value for your house cleaning, like high lottery for a couple years? Sounds like a good business decision to me, plus they save some money while re-tooling. No difference to me in where you end up missing the playoffs at, unless you can get a better pick. I have always loved this team and can root for a team full of young up and comers much easier than a bunch of mediocre players just trying to earn a paycheck. At least the young guys are playing with passion and you can see them develop right before your eyes.

I think that Portland can get under the cap enough to keep Joel. In Schilly's thread talking about Theo+Ruben for KVH is doable. And there have been reports that Minny is interested in Miles. get kandi's expiring + filler for Miles and you then have room for Joel + more. :cheers:


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## dkap (May 13, 2003)

Reading through this thread, I can't help but wonder if I'm one of the overly negative people y'all are referring to... Aside from Nash's draft moves and bringing in Joel, I've cried bloody murder over what he's done the other 11 months of the year. I saw the Sheed trade as a disaster from a mile away, and argued till I was blue in the face with those rosey folk who saw nothing but 20/9. Miles was the one positive move, but even that we'd probably have been better just letting McInnis walk then having an unhappy, logjammed swingman that no one is quite sure if we want to keep around.



> While I agree with you about the W's stealing Baron, what should Portland have sent?


Tough question, but the painful part is we gave up NVE for Dale Davis -- effectively the same contracts being swapped, under the assumption we could move Nick easier. Dale then nets Baron and Nick walks for nothing... Seems a bit reminiscent of trading Rasheed and Person (both expiring deals) for SAR and Theo -- we had to get something -- and SAR ends up walking for nothing and Theo becomes a contract we're hoping someone will take off our hands. That couldn't have possibly turned out any worse, and the outcome couldn't have been any more obvious (to me and several others) at the time.

Dan


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## BIG Q (Jul 8, 2005)

dkap said:


> Reading through this thread, I can't help but wonder if I'm one of the overly negative people y'all are referring to... Aside from Nash's draft moves and bringing in Joel, I've cried bloody murder over what he's done the other 11 months of the year. I saw the Sheed trade as a disaster from a mile away, and argued till I was blue in the face with those rosey folk who saw nothing but 20/9. Miles was the one positive move, but even that we'd probably have been better just letting McInnis walk then having an unhappy, logjammed swingman that no one is quite sure if we want to keep around.
> 
> 
> Tough question, but the painful part is we gave up NVE for Dale Davis -- effectively the same contracts being swapped, under the assumption we could move Nick easier. Dale then nets Baron and Nick walks for nothing... Seems a bit reminiscent of trading Rasheed and Person (both expiring deals) for SAR and Theo -- we had to get something -- and SAR ends up walking for nothing and Theo becomes a contract we're hoping someone will take off our hands. That couldn't have possibly turned out any worse, and the outcome couldn't have been any more obvious (to me and several others) at the time.
> ...


I agree with you on the Rasheed deal. I would rather have gotten expiring contracts and draft picks. I just am not sure about acquiring Baron just for the sake of getting a return on an expiring. At least management knew that they were committed to Telfair and did not want to bring in a disgruntled player to tutor him if Telfair wasn't the primary target in the deal.


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## Talkhard (May 13, 2003)

> I certainly wouldn't personally attack another poster in response to every new post they make like some of the new guys here have been doing. (IMO)


Oh yeah? You have a pretty regular habit of attacking my posts. Sometimes you make personal remarks about me (yesterday you called me "confused") and other times you attack the content of my posts--but the whole thing seems rather personal with you.


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

Talkhard said:


> Oh yeah? You have a pretty regular habit of attacking my posts. Sometimes you make personal remarks about me (yesterday you called me "confused") and other times you attack the content of my posts--but the whole thing seems rather personal with you.


Good god TH get a grip, we've been through this before... I've responded to around 10 of your posts in the last year and linked those threads the last time you made this offbase claim to show how most every response I made was simply discussing hoops. In those responses I agree with you or add to your thoughts more often then take issue.

Yesterday I said... _"I think you're pretty confused in this matter"_ as an intro to my response on how you were comparing Finley's recent release by the Mavs to Nash's inability/unwillingness to trade SAR, DA, or NVX this past year. Certainly everyone (myself included) has been confused in a matter or two in their lifetime... I actually appreciate it if someone sets me strait when I'm wrong and don't take it as a personal attack when they do. I went on to explain why your comparison was a poor one... several other posters pointed to the same exact things... but as usual for some reason(s) you seem to want to make things personal with me. Thats exactly why I so rarely respond to your offbase bleep.

If you'd like I could link many threads where you are edited for calling me names and assign me ascinine positions that I'd never expressed. I know that I've never been edited for doing the same towards you and I always make an effort to accurately characterize everyones positions if I disagree with them.

STOMP


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## Talkhard (May 13, 2003)

> most every response I made was simply discussing hoops.


Ah, so that's what you were doing. How foolish of me to think otherwise.


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## sa1177 (Feb 18, 2005)

As creator of this thread I ask a MOD to please close it, it's run it's course and has now become a forum for personal arguements and bickering. These can be handled using PM's. Thanks.


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## ProudBFan (Apr 29, 2003)

I'm with you too sa1177.

What I see happening here is divisionism. Now I know everyone has their own perspective & opinions on the Blazers right now, and that each is unique - either subtly or radically, but what I see on this forum is three groups of fans:

1. The group that puts competing & winning above all else. In general, these fans are more supportive of Whitsitt, the moves he made, and the players he brought in. These fans are generally more critical of Nash, the moves he has made, and the players he has brought in (or failed to bring in, as the case may be). These fans generally feel that the Blazers weren't "broken" to begin with - since they were still making it to the playoffs season after season - and therefore don't agree that the team needed to be "fixed". For these fans, either there is no light at the end of the tunnel OR the tunnel is so long and so dark that there may as well not be. These fans aren't overly thrilled about watching a young core of relatively inexperienced players struggle to become an NBA basketball team.

2. The group that puts "fixing" Blazers brand basketball above all else. In general, these fans are more supportive of Nash, the moves he has made, and the players he has brought in (or not brought in, as the case may be). These fans are generally more critical of Whitsitt, the moves he made, and the players he brought in. These fans generally feel that the PR problems caused by Whitsitt's players have tarnished or "broken" the franchise, and put a high priority on "fixing" it, even at the cost of competitiveness (which they hope / believe will be temporary). These fans also recognize "the tunnel", but they see a light at the end of it and generally feel the franchise is moving toward it. These fans are generally excited about watching the young and relatively inexperienced roster work its way back up the pecking order here in the Western Conference.

3. The group that wants the team to be competitive, wants the franchise to be successful, wants to cheer for the team, but doesn't want to get wrapped up in endless debate over who was the better Blazers GM, who did what to the reputation of the franchise, or how long it's going to take for the team to become competitive again. In general, these fans find things to both like AND dislike about both Whitsitt AND Nash, the moves they made, and the players they brought in (or didn't bring in, as the case may be). These fans generally don't see much point in dwelling on the past, see and accept the current state of the franchise, and are hoping the tunnel will be short-lived. These fans are generally more curious than excited about the young, relatively inexperienced roster and wish them the best - but aren't averse to more changes if they think it will help the team get from point A to point B faster.

I'd have to say that I've been a "Type 2" fan since Nash took the reigns, but recently I've started leaning toward "Type 3". When I said, "I'm with you too sa1177", that is what I meant.

I also think it's important to note that, when all is said and done, we're all still Blazers fans here (visitors excluded).

PBF


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

ProudBFan said:


> 3. The group that wants the team to be competitive, wants the franchise to be successful, wants to cheer for the team, but doesn't want to get wrapped up in endless debate over who was the better Blazers GM, who did what to the reputation of the franchise, or how long it's going to take for the team to become competitive again. In general, these fans find things to both like AND dislike about both Whitsitt AND Nash, the moves they made, and the players they brought in (or didn't bring in, as the case may be). These fans generally don't see much point in dwelling on the past, see and accept the current state of the franchise, and are hoping the tunnel will be short-lived. These fans are generally more curious than excited about the young, relatively inexperienced roster and wish them the best - but aren't averse to more changes if they think it will help the team get from point A to point B faster.


Garrrrr...taht be me!!!


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

BIG Q said:


> While I agree with you about the W's stealing Baron, what should Portland have sent? Would they have taken Damon? You know they would be insisting on Telfair, only natural. Should Nash have offered Telfair? Was Baron worth that much given his injury history?


As the recent SAR NJ stuff reminded us, a team gets to have their doctors check out a player they are trading for before the deal goes through. Reportedly the W's docs found nothing wrong with him other then the pulled hamstring that had caused him to miss a bunch of games earlier in the year, and even that was clearly on the mend.

The Hornets could have requested the moon in exchange for Baron from Portland, but look at what they settled for... Dale Davis and Speedy Claxton. That they immediately waived Dale and they haven't resigned Speedy (they did draft Chris Paul though) seems to point to them only being interested in the capspace relief, which Portland could have easily provided. With the lowest attendance in the league and piss poor overall talent, I can understand why the fans weren't showing up and Baron didn't want to spend the rest of his career there... I also happen to believe that Shinn has eclipsed Sterling and Cohan as the worst owner in the league. Anyways, I think an offer of Damon or NVX + either a future pick or one of the two Russians would have easily trumped the GS offer they went with... I think they're planning to go with either Casey Jacobson or David West as their 3 this year. 

How would Baron have effected Telfair? Even moreso then Jack, Baron is a big bull of a point guard. I've seen him guard lots of elite 2's over the years. While Telfair would undoubtably rather be the starter, I see no reason he couldn't have had all the backup PG minutes (15 per game or so), and have been able to team up with Davis for stretches. 

While hindsight is 20/20, I wrote almost the same thoughts several times last year. I've come down with a cold, so I'm probably going to be absent for a bit but I hope you enjoy my fodder.

STOMP


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## sa1177 (Feb 18, 2005)

> I'm with you too sa1177.
> 
> What I see happening here is divisionism. Now I know everyone has their own perspective & opinions on the Blazers right now, and that each is unique - either subtly or radically, but what I see on this forum is three groups of fans:
> 
> ...


PBF, very very insightful, I wish I would have started this thread with something along these lines. Admitedly I was angry, pissy and a bit rash in my original post although I still believe I had the best of intentions.


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## Talkhard (May 13, 2003)

That about sums it up, ProudBFan. I'd say that I also fall somewhere between 2 and 3. I'm "cautiously excited" about our young team, if that makes sense.


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## Nightfly (Sep 24, 2002)

I got a PM from sa1177 asking me to close this thread, and I don't think it's an unreasonable request.

This discussion has pretty much run it's course anyway.

If anyone would like this to be reopened, please just send me a PM and let me know why, and I'll listen.

Until then though, this one is done for the time being.


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