# Iverson the most overrated player of my lifetime...



## ripped110

how can anyone not say this guy is overrated????? Im sick of all the BS arguments about his heart and how hard he plays. AI is overrated and that is all there is to it. His career FG% is 41%... that is just TERRIBLE! If this guy wasnt such a Thug wanna be, he would have no popularity at all. He is about to get ran out of his own town....... Anybody who says otherwise really doesnt know anything about basketball. This guy has skated along only on his rep and his rep is about dead. You know who else plays hard everytime that hes out there???? Bo Outlaw... U dont see Bo Outlaw getting all the props AI does!!! This guy has about 2 years left and i say his body breaks down and hes out of the league for good. We all know he wont come off the bench so whats he gonna do? anyway....

AI=Most overrated player in NBA history.


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## Rockstone

Either you haven't been an NBA fan very long, or you're not really 24. Or maybe both. 

However, you are entitled to your opinion no matter how silly it may seem.


> how can anyone not say this guy is overrated????? Im sick of all the BS arguments about his heart and how hard he plays. AI is overrated and that is all there is to it. His career FG% is 41%... that is just TERRIBLE! If this guy wasnt such a Thug wanna be, he would have no popularity at all. He is about to get ran out of his own town....... Anybody who says otherwise really doesnt know anything about basketball. This guy has skated along only on his rep and his rep is about dead. You know who else plays hard everytime that hes out there???? Bo Outlaw... U dont see Bo Outlaw getting all the props AI does!!! This guy has about 2 years left and i say his body breaks down and hes out of the league for good. We all know he wont come off the bench so whats he gonna do? anyway....
> 
> AI=Most overrated player in NBA history.


These types of posts make me sick.


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## lakegz

single handedly leading his team to the finals 3 years ago and hes overrated???? i think not.


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## ripped110

last time i checked he didnt play 1 on 5. thats just what everyone makes it seem to be. And even so he is in the Eastern Conference. The east is TRASH


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## Nevus

> last time i checked he didnt play 1 on 5.


Actually, he probably did.


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## Vermillion

I don't think he's overrated because he DOES deserve most of the praise he gets. RoY, has a few scoring titles, has brought his team to the NBA finals, MVP....


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## Coatesvillain

> Originally posted by <b>ripped110</b>!
> how can anyone not say this guy is overrated????? Im sick of all the BS arguments about his heart and how hard he plays. AI is overrated and that is all there is to it. His career FG% is 41%... that is just TERRIBLE! If this guy wasnt such a Thug wanna be, he would have no popularity at all. He is about to get ran out of his own town....... Anybody who says otherwise really doesnt know anything about basketball. This guy has skated along only on his rep and his rep is about dead. You know who else plays hard everytime that hes out there???? Bo Outlaw... U dont see Bo Outlaw getting all the props AI does!!! This guy has about 2 years left and i say his body breaks down and hes out of the league for good. We all know he wont come off the bench so whats he gonna do? anyway....
> 
> AI=Most overrated player in NBA history.


Now I've probably be harder on AI, more than anyone else on these forums lately, but I can't agree with this argument. Is Iverson overrated? Maybe so, but most overrated of your lifetime? Are you stepping out of Bizarro world or something my friend, there's no way he's the most overrated player in anyone's lifetime. Truthfully I think he's still one of the top 10 to 12 players in the NBA, if that's overrated we might as well take everyone and in the league and compare them to his "overratedness" and see how overrated they are. Allen Iverson is a player whom you can't take one game, or just a stat line, or a career average and say "That's what he is," because he is/was much more than that. 

Allen isn't a player who is without flaws, but what makes him such an amazing player to watch is that everyone knows his flaws yet he succeeds anyway. He's a guy who basically has every reason to be an average player, yet he's not. He plays hard, and with a lot of heart, but I agree with you those arguments are overused, and maybe people do love him because of the way he carries himself. Allen Iverson is a great player in today's game, because of the impact he has on any given game, if you can't appreciate that, I don't know what else to say.

If you want reasons to why Allen Iverson isn't the player he was three years ago, I'll run along a list with you. If you want to go on about how he's breaking down, find me I'll agree with you. If you want to find someone who thinks it's in the Sixers best interest to ship him out.. yeah, you get the point. But if you want someone to say he's the most overrated player in anyone's lifetime, count me out.



> Originally posted by <b>lakegz</b>!
> single handedly leading his team to the finals 3 years ago and hes overrated???? i think not.


This is another statement that grows old, I think. Eric Snow, Aaron McKie, George Lynch, Tyrone Hill, Dikembe Mutombo, Raja Bell, and Jumaine Jones played sizable parts in the Sixers making that trip to the Finals. It's forgotten in the end, that Aaron McKie took over game 7 against the Raptors, and Mutombo showed signs of offense he never before or again showed, that Raja Bell and Jumaine Jones stepped up big time. That's all forgotten. If the Sixers didn't have Iverson, they wouldn't have made the Finals, but Iverson surely didn't get there by himself.


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## MarioChalmers

I wouldn't say he's overrated... he's got the handle, and the speed, along with the jump shot. 

However, I wouldn't say he plays with a lot of heart... Watch Penny Hardaway or Jim Jackson playing right now, knowing that they went through career changing injuries... that's heart. Knowing that you are a former-superstar and must give way to younger players (e.g. Joe Johnson), so you agree to coming off the bench, it just shows love of the game. That's heart, and Iverson has it... but he doesn't have enough of it.


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## therealdeal

> single handedly leading his team to the finals 3 years ago and hes overrated???? i think not.


Really??? If he did it singlehandedly and the teammates had nothing to do with it, why didn't he go to the finals ( singlehandedly ) any other year? And why are they 8-3 without him since Feb.29th, and have a terrible losing record with AI?

Fact is Iverson has no heart, no brains, no handle ( carries all the time ) , no jumpshot ( as his 40% shooting proves ) and it's people who support morons like him that make me sick. You guys know nothing about basketball.

The most overrated player of all time is Shaq though.

That guy knows absolutely nothing about the game and has no skills whatsoever. Without help from those three refs on the court he's no better than Will Perdue playing with a broken leg.


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## jvanbusk

It's hard to argue with some of your logic.

I'm staying out of this thread, but I would like to say that it pretty much disgusts me. It's like some people have never even watched the game, read a newspaper, looked at a boxscore, looked at statistics, never listened to the radio, and have never had any exposure to basketball whatsoever, and then decided to comment on it.


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## hobojoe

I think Iverson is a little overrated, but most overrated of your lifetime, or anyone elses? Not a chance. Iverson does shoot a very low percentage from the floor(too low), but come on, he's still a very good player, that is capable of shooting higher percentages with a reliable second scorer on his team, which he hasn't had. For example, put him on the Celtics for the last couple of years instead of Paul Pierce, I think the Celtics make it to the Finals at least once, with Iverson and Walker leading the way, and AI shooting 43-46% from the floor. You can't overlook what he does on the defensive end of the court, despite being so undersized. Iverson overrated? Yes, I think so. But one of the most overrated ever? Not a chance.


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## chiuondis

> Originally posted by <b>therealdeal</b>!
> 
> 
> Really??? If he did it singlehandedly and the teammates had nothing to do with it, why didn't he go to the finals ( singlehandedly ) any other year? And why are they 8-3 without him since Feb.29th, and have a terrible losing record with AI?
> 
> Fact is Iverson has no heart, no brains, no handle ( carries all the time ) , no jumpshot ( as his 40% shooting proves ) and it's people who support morons like him that make me sick. You guys know nothing about basketball.
> 
> The most overrated player of all time is Shaq though.
> 
> That guy knows absolutely nothing about the game and has no skills whatsoever. Without help from those three refs on the court he's no better than Will Perdue playing with a broken leg.


how can you say ur a fan of the game if you can't appreciate one of the most exciting players in this league? Yes he might be a bit overated but your sayin Philly's better without AI.. then i guess the Kings are better without Webber too huh?

dont blame the team's loss/success on one player! ..... 

the team lost key players ... they lost Coleman, Big Dog.. and now u say they lose bc of Iverson? But now they got something goin and ur gonna start pointing fingers at one person.... 

Im sure ur old enuff to know that MJ didn't win many games until he got Pippen...

so tell me.. where's Iverson's pippen?? I know it's a bit stretch for your lilttle brain to think this far... but please try ... Who does iverson have to help him??? McKie???? Snow??? Dalembert???? please... 

u also fail to acknowledge that iverson's only 5'11" ... so to have the success he's had.. dont tell me he's overated

and SHAQ??? overated???? i know ur joking.... cause if you think this then you dont even deserve to be a fan...


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## walkon4

ripped

why dont you support your argument with facts

you ignorant SOB. 

go back to where you came from. Arguments like this should be trashed if someone refuses to argue with crap like

"the east is trash"

you hater


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## roastedtoaster

> Originally posted by <b>therealdeal</b>!
> 
> Fact is Iverson has no heart, no brains, no handle ( carries all the time ) , no jumpshot ( as his 40% shooting proves ) and it's people who support morons like him that make me sick. You guys know nothing about basketball.


hes got pretty good handles. and hes quick. once he loses a step what will he have to fall back on? his game smarts? dont think so. his shooting ability? no. 

i really dont know what will happen to him after he loses a step. he game is based on beating his man, getting into the lane and drawing in defenders or drawing fouls.


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## Minstrel

> Originally posted by <b>therealdeal</b>!
> 
> 
> Really??? If he did it singlehandedly and the teammates had nothing to do with it, why didn't he go to the finals ( singlehandedly ) any other year?


This is a great point. Let's stop propogating the myth that Iverson "did it alone." That's showing tremendous disrespect to his teammates, who helped make the Sixers the best team in the East in 2000-2001.

Iverson was the best player on a team with other good parts.


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## RapsFan

> Originally posted by <b>roastedtoaster</b>!
> 
> 
> hes got pretty good handles. and hes quick. once he loses a step what will he have to fall back on? his game smarts? dont think so. his shooting ability? no.
> 
> i really dont know what will happen to him after he loses a step. he game is based on beating his man, getting into the lane and drawing in defenders or drawing fouls.


Yes he does have to rely on that because he is so much smaller than the other players on the floor. Do you not want him to use his speed? That is his main advantage. It is like telling Shaq to only take fadeaway jumpshots and not dunk on anyone.

For anyone who has played basketball you would know it is very hard to get a clear shot when everyone else has at least a couple inches on you. You almost never get a clear shot which affects your shooting percentage. He also does not have anyone to get him space to get open shots for him. Thus, his shooting percentages are so low. If he did not have to rush his shot so that it would not get blocked and had more time to get himself set, I'm sure he would shoot a better percentage. 

Like other people have said, Iverson is a player who you have to watch to see how he affects the game, you can not just look at boxscores.


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## mysterio

Though I hate to say it, Iverson is not nearly as overrated as Vince Carter. ASG votes prove it. I mean, when you get more votes than Garnett by by being statistically worse than almost all the other all-stars and leading your team to a sub-500 record, thats overrated.


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## mo76

> Originally posted by <b>ripped110</b>!
> how can anyone not say this guy is overrated????? Im sick of all the BS arguments about his heart and how hard he plays. AI is overrated and that is all there is to it. His career FG% is 41%... that is just TERRIBLE! If this guy wasnt such a Thug wanna be, he would have no popularity at all. He is about to get ran out of his own town....... Anybody who says otherwise really doesnt know anything about basketball. This guy has skated along only on his rep and his rep is about dead. You know who else plays hard everytime that hes out there???? Bo Outlaw... U dont see Bo Outlaw getting all the props AI does!!! This guy has about 2 years left and i say his body breaks down and hes out of the league for good. We all know he wont come off the bench so whats he gonna do? anyway....
> 
> AI=Most overrated player in NBA history.


:uhoh: 
YOU HAVE NO ****ING IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT!


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## JuniorNoboa

> Originally posted by <b>ripped110</b>!
> . Anybody who says otherwise really doesnt know anything about basketball.



You gotta love people that use this statement to show they are right. Brilliant!!


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## Nevus

> Though I hate to say it, Iverson is not nearly as overrated as Vince Carter. ASG votes prove it. I mean, when you get more votes than Garnett by by being statistically worse than almost all the other all-stars and leading your team to a sub-500 record, thats overrated.


That's probably true. Vince is a good player, a very exciting player who tries to take the responsibility of being a great player that people want to put on him, but people do take it too far.


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## futuristxen

> Originally posted by <b>Minstrel</b>!
> 
> 
> This is a great point. Let's stop propogating the myth that Iverson "did it alone." That's showing tremendous disrespect to his teammates, who helped make the Sixers the best team in the East in 2000-2001.
> 
> Iverson was the best player on a team with other good parts.


He did it as much alone as anybody else has in NBA history. Did you watch the playoffs that year? He was amazing. A couple 50 point games against Vince and the Raptors.

But for me the defining moment was game 6 against the Bucks with Philly down by 25 in the 4th quarter and AI single-handedly, yes single-handledly, almost brought them all the way back, just on sheer will power. Because of that they got the momentum to take game 7 otherwise it would have been Milwaukee vs. LA in the Finals.

And AI's performance in game 1 of the finals, the only game they won was one of the better performances in Finals history. His stepping over of Tyronn Lue in Overtime was one of the more iconic moments of the NBA finals that we've had since Jordan retired.

As far as Iverson being overrated. Yeah okay. Just because he shoots a bad field goal percentage, that means that he is overrated. Let's not take one thing and blow it out of proportion or anything. 

Iverson's poor shooting percentage is easily the most overrated statistic this side of Shaq's free throw shooting. It's not a reflection upon him being a terrible shooter, it's a reflection upon the fact that he has had to go for 40-50 for the Sixers to have a chance most games, so hot or not he takes impossible shots...usually with the shot clock going down, over defenders much taller than him...if you had the pleasure of watching him on the Olympic Qualifying team, then you would have a better apprecition, not just for him, but for all of the stars that supposedly can't shoot. These guys never miss open J's...well except for Jason Kidd... 

If Iverson was playing on the Lakers or Spurs where Shaq or Duncan could get him better quality shots I think he'd shoot a much better percentage. But then you might complain that his scoring average was only about 25...so whatever.


It's easy to kick a man when he's down. Which is what a lot of people are doing with Iverson right now. He's not at the end of his career. The olympic qualifying, like many players before him, has really hurt his durability in the season(are there any players off that team who haven't been injured this year at this point? A lot of them have had knee problems too).


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## "Matt!"

> Originally posted by <b>futuristxen</b>!
> 
> Iverson's poor shooting percentage is easily the most overrated statistic this side of Shaq's free throw shooting. It's not a reflection upon him being a terrible shooter, it's a reflection upon the fact that he has had to go for 40-50 for the Sixers to have a chance most games, so hot or not he takes impossible shots...usually with the shot clock going down, over defenders much taller than him......*if you had the pleasure of watching him on the Olympic Qualifying team, then you would have a better apprecition, not just for him, but for all of the stars that supposedly can't shoot. These guys never miss open J's* well except for Jason Kidd...


That's what I've been saying since I've posted here.

Also, please don't get me started on Shaq. The man is possibly the most underrated person on these boards.


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## jvanbusk

> Originally posted by <b>futuristxen</b>!
> 
> 
> He did it as much alone as anybody else has in NBA history. Did you watch the playoffs that year? He was amazing. A couple 50 point games against Vince and the Raptors.
> 
> But for me the defining moment was game 6 against the Bucks with Philly down by 25 in the 4th quarter and AI single-handedly, yes single-handledly, almost brought them all the way back, just on sheer will power. Because of that they got the momentum to take game 7 otherwise it would have been Milwaukee vs. LA in the Finals.
> 
> And AI's performance in game 1 of the finals, the only game they won was one of the better performances in Finals history. His stepping over of Tyronn Lue in Overtime was one of the more iconic moments of the NBA finals that we've had since Jordan retired.
> 
> As far as Iverson being overrated. Yeah okay. Just because he shoots a bad field goal percentage, that means that he is overrated. Let's not take one thing and blow it out of proportion or anything.
> 
> Iverson's poor shooting percentage is easily the most overrated statistic this side of Shaq's free throw shooting. It's not a reflection upon him being a terrible shooter, it's a reflection upon the fact that he has had to go for 40-50 for the Sixers to have a chance most games, so hot or not he takes impossible shots...usually with the shot clock going down, over defenders much taller than him...if you had the pleasure of watching him on the Olympic Qualifying team, then you would have a better apprecition, not just for him, but for all of the stars that supposedly can't shoot. These guys never miss open J's...well except for Jason Kidd...
> 
> If Iverson was playing on the Lakers or Spurs where Shaq or Duncan could get him better quality shots I think he'd shoot a much better percentage. But then you might complain that his scoring average was only about 25...so whatever.
> 
> 
> It's easy to kick a man when he's down. Which is what a lot of people are doing with Iverson right now. He's not at the end of his career. The olympic qualifying, like many players before him, has really hurt his durability in the season(are there any players off that team who haven't been injured this year at this point? A lot of them have had knee problems too).


[sarcasm]That's fine and dandy, but he didn't carry a team of junior high players to the playoffs.[/sarcasm]

If you had a rating system turned on, that would be a 5-star post. Kudos.


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## Minstrel

> Originally posted by <b>futuristxen</b>!
> 
> He did it as much alone as anybody else has in NBA history. Did you watch the playoffs that year? He was amazing. A couple 50 point games against Vince and the Raptors.


Yup, he was quite excellent in the playoffs. As I said, the best player on a team of good pieces.

But if he could even *remotely* do it by himself, the Sixers would be at least a playoff team in the East.

Just like McGrady or any great player, he can't do it alone, and his not even sniffing the Finals ever since proves that conclusively.

Not even Jordan, a player many, many times better than Iverson, ever got near a Finals by himself. There's no question at all that Iverson didn't take the Sixers to the Finals by himself, or even come close to doing so. McKie, Snow, Mutombo...they were all very large parts.


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## Max Payne

People like therealdeal and ripped110 should be banned from the forum. If you guys ever made those comments here in Philadelphia, you would first be lynched, then flogged and then stoned to death. That's how much Iverson means to this city. The possibility of a man barefully 6 feet tall winning three scoring titles seemed ludicrous unless the guy was a three shooting demon.....Allen Iverson changed all that. I don't think there has EVER been a player like AI and there will probably never be another like him. 
Iverson carries the team every night, playing through one injury after the other. Pound for pound in terms of pure endurance he is the MOST athletic player in the league because of the terrible pounding his body takes every year and yet he plays through those injuries and puts up stellar displays. Though age is catching up with him and that's why he's had problems this season, he is still among the most exciting, the most atheletic, the most clutch and the most jaw-dropping players this league has to offer. Because he is so unconventional, Iverson will never make the All-NBA First team with guys like Kobe and TMAC being the more orthodox backcourt players. Yet if you gauge making the First Team as your scale for judging a player, then think about this : KG has only made that team twice, whilst Tim Duncan has made it apparently every season of his career. Does that necessarilly make Duncan 3 times better than KG ? Of course not !
Iverson brings to the game a sense of excitement that perhaps has been unseen since Isaiah Thomas's glory days. Iverson for years has put the fear of God into 7 foot centers looking around and watching a comet like Iverson sprinting down the court and unleashing a killer move, making the basket and drawing the foul and getting to the line. For all the haters who think Iverson just jacks up too many shots, I say , this is true, his shot selection at times has been very sketchy, but here's an interesting fact. Kobe in a game once attempted 47 field goals...Iverson's highest is 42. The fact of the matter is that Iverson's very presence on either end of the court is just invaluable to any side's cause. He's a defensive stalwart with his hustle earning him almost 2.5 steals a game and no one can ever place enough accolades on his offensive prowess. He may take significantly more shots than the other elite guards but he's also head and shoulders above the rest in terms of career scoring averages. He's had some great support over the years in and especially when Philly went on their playoff run, but when the clock was winding down and his team was down, everyone always looked to Iverson and more often than not he answered the call.
So I leave the doubters with this. Before making such comments, take a minute and say the words "Allen Iverson" out loud and think about everything that the man represents on the court. I doubt you will feel like making such comments in the future if you truly allow yourself to see from an unbiased viewpoint what the man has brought to the game. If you're still not convinced, go out and get his book "Only the Strong Survive" . You might just gain the insight necessary to make you turn to the light and see the truth..the man is a legend and will always be so in the hearts of true basketball lovers....a legend cannot be overrated.


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## Spriggan

iverson strengths:

1) best ball handling ability in the league, bar none. he's been the best in this category since he came into the league.

2) a TERRIFIC finisher at the rim, one of the best in the L.

3) terrific at playing passing lanes. has always been either the league leader in steals, or top 5 (iirc).

4) very good on the ball defender. he is quick and can keep up with any PG in the league, and can guard most SG's as well, if need be.

5) one of, if not the fastest player with the ball in the league. tied with jason kidd in this category, i'd say. iverson just may be the fastest player in the league, period.

6) durability. the kid would play with a missing limb if he had to.

7) heart. you can count on iverson to bring his all EVERY SINGLE GAME, no matter how meaningful or meaningless that game might be. 

8) leadership. ok, this part is debatable. iverson has definitely not shown great leadership in the past couple years off the court with his tirades against the coach and management. but on the court, iverson is still one of the best leaders in terms of getting teammates involved (call him selfish all you want, iverson DOES dish it off a good deal) and being vocal and very into the game. you can't tell me watching iverson constantly hustling on the court, grabbing loose balls and playing with his heart doesn't affect his teammates.


iverson weaknesses:

1) above-average shooter, but not great. i know he's had to take most of the shots for his team every year he's been in the league, but even taking that into account, iverson is not a great shooter by any stretch. he's a great penetrator and finisher, but shooting is not one of his strengths. he tends to get on hot streaks in games where starts sinking jumpers, but he is far too inconsistent in that area to be considered nearly as great a shooter as kobe or t-mac. or even vince carter, for that matter.

2) ego. normally, i'd never bring this up. i'm a huge kobe fan, and it always annoys me when someone brings up his "ego". every superstar has an ego, that's a fact. whether they choose to exhibit it or not, and how, is the difference. but when iverson famously listed off all his career accomplishments after he refused to come off the bench, i couldn't help but think: "damn, that was pretty cocky." i mean it doesn't really bother me all that much personally, i thought his tirade was great. i just thought i'd bring it up because i know a lot of people now consider iverson an egomaniac.

3) off-the-court issues. iverson simply does not get along with authority. he drove larry brown out of philly, and now he and chris ford are at each other's throats. iverson may never play another game for philly again. iverson's also managed to lose some of his fanbase, too. 


as you can see, the strengths outweigh the weaknesses. at least for me. iverson's issues with his coach and management is a big deal, but the fact of the matter is, iverson isn't the only one in the wrong here. chris ford is, for lack of a better word, an idiot. philly management also doesn't seem to appreciate what iverson's meant to their organization over the years.


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## sportsfan

> Originally posted by <b>ripped110</b>!
> And even so he is in the Eastern Conference. The east is TRASH


Um, you do realize that Philly plays 28 games every year against the West?


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## "Matt!"

> Originally posted by <b>Max Payne</b>!
> Because he is so unconventional, Iverson will never make the All-NBA First team with guys like Kobe and TMAC being the more orthodox backcourt players.


No, Kobe and T-Mac don't make All-NBA Teams because they're conventional, they're better players.


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## therealdeal

> I don't think there has EVER been a player like AI and there will probably never be another like him.


Tiny Archibald at 5' 10" led the league in scoring and assists in the same season. 35 ppg on almost 50% shooting and 11.5 assists. Now that is something.

Kevin Johnson at 6' 1" averaged 23 ppg on 50+% shooting and 13 assists per game, was quicker than Iverson even when injured and he played through real injuries, not made up crap like your lazy ******* in Philly.

What Iverson does is simple. Anybody can hog the ball and shoot 30 times per game to score 30 points. If you fans in Philly think it's exciting watching guy shoot 30 times and miss 18 of those, you deserve a crap team you got. They are 8 - 3 without AI, so that should tell you something about how much he really means to them.

You may be right though, there may never be a guy so selfish, clueless and in other words basically the littlest biggest ******* to ever play the game. That is all he will ever be. He couldn't get tha ball across the mid court line if they continued to call him for carrying like they tried 4 years ago before David Stern stepped in and said: "just let it go, it's slowing down the game, and this guy will never learn anyway " ( One game I watched they called carrying on him him 6 times just in the first quarter ).

If the NBA put the actual game before the entertainment and money and forced players to play by the rules instead of giving in to them so they can artificially create superstars needed to sell merchandise most of your favorite players' stats would be halved.

*edited: Don't mask inappropriate language*


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## Max Payne

therealdeal, I'm being very very generous when I say that you ARE A *edited: No personal attacks*

I really dont see much comparison between AI and Kevin Johnson. Sure Johnson was a little man who was speedy in his heyday, but he's nowhere near the scorer that AI is and you should get your head checked for making that assertion.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. You CANNOT compare players of today with the players of yesteryear. The league today is a lot bigger, a lot stronger and alot more athletic. The only league that could compare to today's is that of the 80's and early 90's. Nate Archibald , awesome as he was, did not play in a league like this generation's so once again you make faulty comparisons. 

Lastly, please please make your *edited* and *edited* assertions about how you think AI can't even hold a basketball in Philly. I think for once the West and the East side would stand united in trying to stamp out your *edited: Several lines of attacks deleted*

*If you can't argue your point civilly, please don't post. Whether you liked therealdeal's contentions or not, he didn't attack you and your attacks were totally uncalled for. Post another one with that level of personal attacks and you'll be running a strong risk of suspension.*


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## therealdeal

Both Nate Archibald and KJ played in a much stronger leagues than Iverson. 

Look at your post all edited out by moderators. Now if Iverson got called for carrying his game would look all broken up and even worse than your post. Guy sucks, can't do anything within the rules of the game.

KJ, for your info was a much better scorer than AI, he shot 50+%, but he also knew how to get his teammates invloved. When he had to score he did. Against Houston series I believe he had 3 games in a row where he scored 40 points or more. And he didn't need 40 shots like AI.

AI ( even when they went to the finals ) was %wise the worst shooting guard in league's history ( that's the fact, you can check it ). This year again he's only shooting 38% and leads the league in turnovers. Team is 8 - 3 without him since Feb 29th. With him they are the worst team in the league.

Those are all facts. A. Iverson is one of the most overrated guys that ever played the game. If this was 1980s when we had good guards in the league, he'd be playing either somewhere in Turkey or if lucky in the CBA.

Britney Spears and Jessica Simpson are two of the most popular singers in the world, but everybody knows they suck. Same with AI. It's the clueless masses who fall for the hype and keep these talentless individuals in the money. AI is nothing more than a fake star created for marketing purposes. You've been had. All the macho crap AI puts out has been created by some fat white balding manager pulling the strings behind the scenes. He's a basketball Back street boy, on and off the court. The only two guys more fake than AI in the game today are Shaq and Lebron.


----------



## nikeflightz

wtf??? why are people on this board here so damn angry all the time. geez. let the guy have his opinion. all these people say is something like "you are an idiot. someone should ban you." why can't people just CHILL. 

i can tell that a lot of you guys have feelings that are easily hurt. like if someone said something like "i think <insert player here> sux and is overated," a bunch of fanboys and jockriders ride in and say crap like "im gonna kill you idiot &$#*#&$" or "you must have never watched an nba game in your life so i'm not even gonna talk to you"

p.s. 
iverson sux. if ANY other star in this league took the 25 or so fg attempts that he takes a game, philly would have a better record.


----------



## lastlaugh

Iverson has been hurt all year. It is hardly fair to hate on him for the injury ridden season that he has been having .


Before he refused to play in that game I would have said the kid plays with heart but I just don't feel that way about him anymore.

I would never called him overrated tho. He has too much talent for a guy his size to be called that.


----------



## Max Payne

He's still a talent amongst talents and still brings an unparalleled level of excitement to the NBA. Comparing players of different eras is impossible because of the "what ifs" and all the intangibles involved. Iverson may not be the most efficient guard in the league but he's still a great, great player with an enormous fan base because of his intensity and talent level. 
Speaking of him being overrated, he deserved his MVP award and his scoring titles. No one is screaming that he should be in the ALL-NBA First Team or that he should be inducted into the Hall of Fame straight away. He is also nowhere near contention for MVP of the league currently and TMAC is already the scoring champion. I really dont see where this notion of him being overrated comes from. If being popular and being loved by millions of fans all over the world is being overrated, then would you say that Michael Jordan, Magic, Larry Bird, TMAC, Kobe, KG, Shaq and many many more are also overrated ?


----------



## mo76

> Both Nate Archibald and KJ played in a much stronger leagues than Iverson.


This is probably the dumbest statement that I have ever heard.
:sour:


----------



## mo76

Iverson is not the kind of player that you call "overrated." 
AI shoots a below average field goal percentage so he is "overrated" Futuristxen already said on this thread, some people are just kicking him when he is down. Does anyone remember when the sixers beat the LAKERS in game one of the NBA finals??? I think that was the single greatest game I have ever seen. Or has anyone seen him just take over a game, and you just know he aint gonna be missing much that night  . I can't wait for Iverson to come back next year and proove all his doubter's wrong, cause that's what he has always done. He is the ANSWER!


----------



## rainman

i've had some real problems with him over the years and then marveled at what he can do, especially at his size. maybe we can all agree that he has worn out his welcome in philly. i dont know what the market is for a guy who makes the money he does and then has a problem with practicing and getting along with coaches. to me an iverson/mcgrady deal(+others) would be a perfect fit but who knows.


----------



## "Matt!"

> Originally posted by <b>nikeflightz</b>!
> wtf??? why are people on this board here so damn angry all the time. geez. let the guy have his opinion. all these people say is something like "you are an idiot. someone should ban you." why can't people just CHILL.
> 
> i can tell that a lot of you guys have feelings that are easily hurt. like if someone said something like "i think <insert player here> sux and is overated," a bunch of fanboys and jockriders ride in and say crap like "im gonna kill you idiot &$#*#&$" or "you must have never watched an nba game in your life so i'm not even gonna talk to you"
> 
> p.s.
> iverson sux. if ANY other star in this league took the 25 or so fg attempts that he takes a game, philly would have a better record.


Dude, you're straight wrong. Try and get this. Any person who takes 25 shots in a game wouldn't score as much as AI, or else they would be taking the 25 shots and scoring more. The league isn't holding back anyone that isn't thug. 

If you don't like the atmosphere, leave, but unless you're going to contribute something valuable to a discussion it's best to not hit the post button.


----------



## ripped110

I am not sure who said this. but whoever said that Iverson is a good on the ball defender is nuts. Ill give you the fact that he is good in passing lanes, but that is only because he is never playing D on his man and always gambling. Iverson has no heart. The man wouldnt even come off the bench when his coach told him to. AI is a disgrace.


----------



## Ice Nine

A.I. is definitely overrated. His FGP is a dismal 38% and his assist to turnover ratio is 6.8/4.4. His thug persona has propelled him to superstardom in a lackluster eastern conference. If Kobe signs with the Knicks this offseason, I doubt Iverson will make the all-star squad.



> Any person who takes 25 shots in a game wouldn't score as much as AI, or else they would be taking the 25 shots and scoring more. The league isn't holding back anyone that isn't thug.


Ah, basketball's version of the chicken & the egg. Does shooting volume result from talent, or vice versa? I suspect it's a combination of both.


----------



## LA68

One of my definitions of a great player is one who improves his game year after year. he is the same player he was at G'town. Never learned to run the point, so quick but plays no D.,and now he is proving to be a cancer. It's just killing him that he made that crack about being a franchise player and the team is better without him.

He refused to bulk up and now his body is taking a toll. By the end of this contract, he will be a bench player whether he likes it or not.


----------



## John

Does any Philly fans think they need my help to defend Iverson? I can destroy any single part of the hater's posts, bu tthe question is I am not an Ivy fan so I dont want to waste my time to post here.


----------



## BallBiologist

> Originally posted by <b>John</b>!
> Does any Philly fans think they need my help to defend Iverson? I can destroy any single part of the hater's posts, bu tthe question is I am not an Ivy fan so I dont want to waste my time to post here.


If your going to post something, post it..Otherwise, quit post count spamming..

Your basically saying, "I can beat Michael Jordan 1 on 1 in basketball...but the question is weather I want to 'waste my time' playing against him because I'm too good for him" 


Back to the topic. Iverson isn't overrated...he is 6 foot tall and won scoring title twice...lead his team into the 2nd round of the playoffs or if I remember correctly even into the semifinals....anyways... A.I. is slowly declining but he still has game as of now.


----------



## Max Payne

> Originally posted by <b>John</b>!
> Does any Philly fans think they need my help to defend Iverson? I can destroy any single part of the hater's posts, bu tthe question is I am not an Ivy fan so I dont want to waste my time to post here.


 Please do...Iverson fans on this thread are few and far between it seems.


----------



## BEEZ

> Originally posted by <b>LA68</b>!
> It's just killing him that he made that crack about being a franchise player and the team is better without him.
> 
> He refused to bulk up and now his body is taking a toll. By the end of this contract, he will be a bench player whether he likes it or not.


Now there are quite the inconsitences in this post. Anybody who could clearly say the Sixers are a better team without him is ridiculous. Fine they won without him, but teams should do such. Is Toronto better with out Vince or the Lakers better without Shaq? I mean lets stop with all this ridiculousness. Every players job in this league is to do his best job to help his team win. Not neccessarily everyone does it, but that is what they are supposed to do. Plain and simple just because they have one without him doesnt mean they are a better team without him. I wonder where some come up with this stuff from.

To answer your second part. Its one thing to lift and to take better care of your body and be better conditioned and its another to keep on making this ridiculous statement *"he refused to bulk up"* THat is the dumbest and most ludacris thing to say. Its one thing to not put in the effort to make your body more durable which is pretty evident that he has NOT done but its another to keep saying that when some individuals dont have the frame or type of body that can put on and or keep weight. Please learn these things before ridiculous statement after ridiculous statements are made


----------



## John

> Originally posted by <b>Max Payne</b>!
> 
> 
> Please do...Iverson fans on this thread are few and far between it seems.


Will do my friend...


----------



## TheRifleman

> Originally posted by <b>ripped110</b>!
> how can anyone not say this guy is overrated????? Im sick of all the BS arguments about his heart and how hard he plays. AI is overrated and that is all there is to it. His career FG% is 41%... that is just TERRIBLE! If this guy wasnt such a Thug wanna be, he would have no popularity at all. <b>He is about to get ran out of his own town....... Anybody who says otherwise really doesnt know anything about basketball.</b> This guy has skated along only on his rep and his rep is about dead. You know who else plays hard everytime that hes out there???? Bo Outlaw... U dont see Bo Outlaw getting all the props AI does!!! This guy has about 2 years left and i say his body breaks down and hes out of the league for good. We all know he wont come off the bench so whats he gonna do? anyway....
> 
> AI=Most overrated player in NBA history.


So - if we disagree with your "OPINION", we then automatically know nothing about basketball? Hmmmmm, sad debate technique.  

BTW, I love Iverson's game. IMHO, he is the greatest little guy ever in the NBA. BTW, I went to my first PRO basketball game when I was 7 years old.... am about to turn 50 - you do the math.


----------



## Max Payne

*Re: Re: Iverson the most overrated player of my lifetime...*



> BTW, I love Iverson's game. IMHO, he is the greatest little guy ever in the NBA. BTW, I went to my first PRO basketball game when I was 7 years old.... am about to turn 50 - you do the math.


 Thank you and wow ! 43 years of documenting some of the greatest players to ever play the game ! Glad that we have such experience at the forefront of the forums !


----------



## ripped110

iverson couldnt hold isiah thomas' jock. If u want to start the little man argument...


----------



## mo76

Thomas was a great player. Iverson is a great player. Iverson has 3 scoring titles and 2 MVP's. I think he could "hold anyone's jock" :sigh:


----------



## spongyfungy

I'm gonna explode.

People who say anyone can take that many shots would score that many points are full of it.

With that same logic, "Steve Kerr should have shot more than Jordan during the championship years because he shot a better percentage" Or "America should print more money, then we'd be rich!"

put Iverson with any player that can get him the ball and Iverson will torch any team. He does rely on his quickness to get his shots off though but he'll wear down any defender that's not as quick as him. Iverson's knack for moving without the ball and the volume of shots he takes, 28 a game, add to the difficulty in guarding him. 

Most teams zone him up than double team him, but when he penetrates he usually scores. When he doesn't, he usually gets clobbered in the lane but he gets the foul calls.

Only way to defend him is to force him to get the ball from the outside the 3 point line or make him go left. I can understand people call him a punk or a cancer but not overrated.


----------



## spongyfungy

*therealdeal*

How can you question Iverson's heart? He's anything but heartless. The only reason I can think of as to why you said this is to get a rise out of people


----------



## ripped110

AI is not even in the same conversation as Isiah thomas. Isiah has 2 championships when the Eastern Conference was actually legit. That ends any argument right there.


----------



## Spriggan

> Originally posted by <b>ripped110</b>!
> AI is not even in the same conversation as Isiah thomas. Isiah has 2 championships when the Eastern Conference was actually legit. That ends any argument right there.


wait a second... you're comparing the late 80's early 90's pistons to today's sixers?

i think i've just entered the twilight zone.


----------



## spongyfungy

> Originally posted by <b>ripped110</b>!
> AI is not even in the same conversation as Isiah thomas. Isiah has 2 championships when the Eastern Conference was actually legit. That ends any argument right there.


Well, this proves you just wanted a shouting match with the closing word and not a enlightning discussion 



> Originally posted by <b>spriggan9</b>!
> wait a second... you're comparing the late 80's early 90's pistons to today's sixers?


Word.


----------



## ripped110

no im not comparing them. because there is no comparison. just like there is no comparion between Isiah and AI. Isiah is the better player. If he shot as much as AI does he would have averaged over 30 ppg.


----------



## John

> Originally posted by <b>ripped110</b>!
> no im not comparing them. because there is no comparison. just like there is no comparion between Isiah and AI. Isiah is the better player. If he shot as much as AI does he would have averaged over 30 ppg.


Not racist here, but you are you true American? or Just some immgriant to US some years ago?


----------



## ripped110

> Originally posted by <b>John</b>!
> 
> 
> Not racist here, but you are you true American? or Just some immgriant to US some years ago?




uh yes im a true american. born and raised. Isiah 2 rings... AI none.... like i said. no comparison


----------



## mo76

How many rings does mark madson have???

MY PRECIOUS


----------



## futuristxen

> Originally posted by <b>ripped110</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> uh yes im a true american. born and raised. Isiah 2 rings... AI none.... like i said. no comparison


And Robert Horry has more rings than both of them combined. So therefore he is twice the player of Iverson and Thomas. And he is better than Patrick Ewing, Charles Barkley, Kevin Garnett, Shaq O'Neal, and Karl Malone...COMBINED!!!!:yes: 

Steve Kerr is also pretty good.:grinning:

ps. End of discussion.:laugh:


----------



## John

Sorry Philly fans, that poster who is 24 years ago is truly a hater, when he can post hating stuff on Iverson on a message reply for "Are you an American?", John just needs to shut up. But 24 years old, go seek some professional help....


----------



## ripped110

you all are naming fill in scrubs with rings. Isiah was the main cog in that championship team. So quit with that weak lame argument. AI couldnt get it done. Isiah did. There are plenty of role players with rings , that is irrelevant. Were talking serious contributors here not the 9th man off the bench... get real.


----------



## futuristxen

> Originally posted by <b>ripped110</b>!
> you all are naming fill in scrubs with rings. Isiah was the main cog in that championship team. So quit with that weak lame argument. AI couldnt get it done. Isiah did. There are plenty of role players with rings , that is irrelevant. Were talking serious contributors here not the 9th man off the bench... get real.


Ever heard of Charles Barkley? He was pretty good, but he never got a Championship. And only got to the finals once. In a year he won the MVP.

Karl Malone didn't get any championships in the prime of his career.

Championships are nice but they are a team achievement.


----------



## ripped110

man get real... AI is nowhere near in the same stratoshpere as Barkley or Malone....... Not even close


----------



## futuristxen

> Originally posted by <b>ripped110</b>!
> man get real... AI is nowhere near in the same stratoshpere as Barkley or Malone....... Not even close


----------



## mo76

> Originally posted by <b>ripped110</b>!
> man get real... AI is nowhere near in the same stratoshpere as Barkley or Malone....... Not even close


Are you ****ing *edited: No personal attacks*


----------



## Max Payne

Seriously ripped110, you must be threaldeal's best friend....<strike>I'm so sick and tired of your laughable arguments....you claim</strike>(Too personal-) :nonono:
solely on the basis of championships that Isaiah is better than AI ? Do you have any idea of the fact that comparing such different players from different eras makes your claims invalid in the first place ? Words fail me...how sad...the next thing we know you'll be comparing Earl Boykins to Shaq...


----------



## ripped110

ok karl malone is the greatest PF ever arguably... AI isnt even the top 2 guard in the league and never has been.... Somone explain to me how AI is better than Malone? And why cant we compare era's? if anything Isiah's era was better than Iversons Era today. and AI still has only gotten one finals appearance....


----------



## mo76

I'll admit I havent seen much of malone in his prime. Right now he pretty much sucks. I do think he is the greatest PF at making ill advised passes and the owner of the ugliest, least effective fadaway jumper in the league. 
Thomas was a good small guard. So is AI. Saying that Thomas is waaaay biased. /
That's all I can say. AI is a future hall of famer. He will be remembered as a better player than Thomas. Thomas is a great PG. AI is the man on his team (ala MJ). There's the difference. 
PS
AI isn't done yet and he'll have a "ring" by the time he is done.


----------



## Max Payne

You and your best friend therealdeal just aren't worth my time or anyone else's time for that matter. We must have made these points a hundred times by now. Please stop wasting our time.


----------



## Yyzlin

I've done this whole Iverson argument before, so I'm not going to try to get too argumentative here. Simply put, Iverson takes some shots he really shouldn't. Whether that's simply because of the poor quality of other scoring options on the team is debatable, but I don't think it is. A FG% of .387 simply isn't going to jump 4 of 5 whole percentage points because he gets a better team and a few more better shots. And here's an interesting comparison to chew on. Larry Hughes has a .396 FG% while taking only 2.87 less FGA per 48 minutes while on a worse team as well. Doing some basic math here, lets adjust Iverson's numbers to see what he might have accomplished had he took the less shots that Hughes did. Iverson has played 2040 minutes this year, so divide that by 48 to get the number of whole 48 minute blocks. Then multiply by 2.87 to get the total number of shots Iverson would have taken more than Hughes under the same time. You end up with 122 shots. Now, I'm going to give Iverson a generous cushion here and say that the extra shots hampered Iverson enough to allow him to shot only 30% on those shots. 30% of 122 is 36.6. Subtracting both those figures from his actual season total, and you come to a FG% of 39.7%, only 0.1% higher than Hughes. Now, I'm not saying Hughes is a better player, because he is not, but as a shooter and scorer, I think the comparison this season is very fair.


----------



## ripped110

OK. now nobody can argue this. and if they are do then they need mental help. AI is absolutely nowhere near Michael Jordan. Saying AI is the man a la Jordan is a disgrace. This is disrespecting the greatest player to ever live. Please dont tell me you think AI is anywhere near comprable to MJ.


----------



## mo76

> Originally posted by <b>ripped110</b>!
> OK. now nobody can argue this. and if they are do then they need mental help. AI is absolutely nowhere near Michael Jordan. Saying AI is the man a la Jordan is a disgrace. This is disrespecting the greatest player to ever live. Please dont tell me you think AI is anywhere near comprable to MJ.



http://www.nba.com/playerfile/allen_iverson/index.html 

:banghead: 
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:


----------



## RapsFan

> Originally posted by <b>Yyzlin</b>!
> I've done this whole Iverson argument before, so I'm not going to try to get too argumentative here. Simply put, Iverson takes some shots he really shouldn't. Whether that's simply because of the poor quality of other scoring options on the team is debatable, but I don't think it is. A FG% of .387 simply isn't going to jump 4 of 5 whole percentage points because he gets a better team and a few more better shots. And here's an interesting comparison to chew on. Larry Hughes has a .396 FG% while taking only 2.87 less FGA per 48 minutes while on a worse team as well. Doing some basic math here, lets adjust Iverson's numbers to see what he might have accomplished had he took the less shots that Hughes did. Iverson has played 2040 minutes this year, so divide that by 48 to get the number of whole 48 minute blocks. Then multiply by 2.87 to get the total number of shots Iverson would have taken more than Hughes under the same time. You end up with 122 shots. Now, I'm going to give Iverson a generous cushion here and say that the extra shots hampered Iverson enough to allow him to shot only 30% on those shots. 30% of 122 is 36.6. Subtracting both those figures from his actual season total, and you come to a FG% of 39.7%, only 0.1% higher than Hughes. Now, I'm not saying Hughes is a better player, because he is not, but as a shooter and scorer, I think the comparison this season is very fair.


But isn't it better to copare Iverson to players around the same size and build to show how hard it is for a player that small to shoot a good percentage.

Career Shooting Percentage (via NBA.com)

Iverson- .417
Stoudamire- .412
Brevin Knight- .419
Darrell Armstrong- .417
Travis Best- .433

So as you can see all players this size have trouble shooting high percentages. They do not have the advantage of being able to shoot over people, and have to hurry to get their shot off because of their height. Iverson is fearless though and will take the shots even when he has guys in his face. Iverson realizes that he can not shoot a high percentage and thus gets a lot of his points from penetrating and scoring or getting fouled and thus it being recorded as a missed shot. That's why he is a premier scorer, because he is able to use what he has to his advantage to score. 

People say well look at the 76ers they are winning without Iverson. Maybe he was not as important to the team as everyone said he was. Well, do you think they could do this over a whole season? Do you think they could do this through the playoffs to win a championship? I do not think so. In today's NBA you need to have a superstar to win a championship. Spurs had Duncan. Lakers had Shaq and Kobe. At some point, a team will come up short due to lack of talent.

I'll admit that this generation lacks in the fundamentals of the game. However, the athleticism in the league has improved drastically. Guys can run faster and longer, jump quicker and higher, and there is a higher percentage of these players in the NBA then there were in the previous generation. So that hinders short players even more, because they have less time to shoot, their shots can be blocked more often, and their quickness advantage is not as great. However, Iverson still gets it done. He is getting battered by these bigger players every time he goes in the paint, yet he continues to do it often. Unfortuantely that starts to take a toll which decreases what advantage he does have even more. Yet AI continues to be a league leader in scoring every year.


----------



## Yyzlin

> Originally posted by <b>RapsFan</b>!
> 
> 
> But isn't it better to copare Iverson to players around the same size and build to show how hard it is for a player that small to shoot a good percentage.
> 
> Career Shooting Percentage (via NBA.com)
> 
> Iverson- .417
> Stoudamire- .412
> Brevin Knight- .419
> Darrell Armstrong- .417
> Travis Best- .433
> 
> So as you can see all players this size have trouble shooting high percentages. They do not have the advantage of being able to shoot over people, and have to hurry to get their shot off because of their height. Iverson is fearless though and will take the shots even when he has guys in his face. Iverson realizes that he can not shoot a high percentage and thus gets a lot of his points from penetrating and scoring or getting fouled and thus it being recorded as a missed shot. That's why he is a premier scorer, because he is able to use what he has to his advantage to score.
> 
> People say well look at the 76ers they are winning without Iverson. Maybe he was not as important to the team as everyone said he was. Well, do you think they could do this over a whole season? Do you think they could do this through the playoffs to win a championship? I do not think so. In today's NBA you need to have a superstar to win a championship. Spurs had Duncan. Lakers had Shaq and Kobe. At some point, a team will come up short due to lack of talent.
> 
> I'll admit that this generation lacks in the fundamentals of the game. However, the athleticism in the league has improved drastically. Guys can run faster and longer, jump quicker and higher, and there is a higher percentage of these players in the NBA then there were in the previous generation. So that hinders short players even more, because they have less time to shoot, their shots can be blocked more often, and their quickness advantage is not as great. However, Iverson still gets it done. He is getting battered by these bigger players every time he goes in the paint, yet he continues to do it often. Unfortuantely that starts to take a toll which decreases what advantage he does have even more. Yet AI continues to be a league leader in scoring every year.


While it's wonderful that Iverson is doing all this at a smaller size, it's not logical to use it as an excuse. Size is a factor in basketball, just as talent is, and when you comparing players across the league, you can't make a fair comparison when you adjust for size. Just like you can't say, well, oh, if Garnett was the size that Shaq is, he would the most dominant player ever, it's not reasonable to say that Iverson would be a better shooter if he was Hughes size. But, for what it's worth, yes, Iverson is the best player at 6'1''.


----------



## ripped110

LMAO!!! look who you compared AI with.... some player AI stacked up witht he likes of brevin knight. AI should be a PG anyway he is just to SELFISH to play that position.


----------



## Minstrel

> Originally posted by <b>RapsFan</b>!
> 
> 
> But isn't it better to copare Iverson to players around the same size and build to show how hard it is for a player that small to shoot a good percentage.
> 
> ...
> 
> So as you can see all players this size have trouble shooting high percentages. They do not have the advantage of being able to shoot over people, and have to hurry to get their shot off because of their height.


So you're saying that his size makes him a less-effective scorer. I agree with you, but that's not an artificial circumstance. His size is an intrinsic part of him, like someone else being a poor shooter or bad rebounder.

Some people argue that Iverson would be Jordan-like if he were 6'6''. Maybe, maybe not (I doubt he'd have his current quickness at that size)...but the fact is, he is the size he is. And, at his size, he has some issues that make him less valuable.


----------



## RapsFan

> Originally posted by <b>ripped110</b>!
> LMAO!!! look who you compared AI with.... some player AI stacked up witht he likes of brevin knight. AI should be a PG anyway he is just to SELFISH to play that position.


I wasn't comparing them talent wise, but size wise. People that size have a disadvantage when it comes to shooting. Hence their shooting percentages being low no matter how many shots a player takes.


----------



## ripped110

well iverson's size makes him shoot a lower %. i would say that makes him overrated would it not? can anyone honestly say that iverson is that good to where people deal with his BS? I mean hes a total malcontent, but he cant back it up. For all his arrogance you would think he is the best player in the NBA and he is nowhere near that. Not even the best at his own position. Not to mention his own team is going to trade him for next to nothing this offseason. I say he ends up in the worst sports town in america... none other than<strike> ATLANTA!!! </strike>(do NOT bash a city or a country) :nonono: hows that for purgatory.......


----------



## RapsFan

> Originally posted by <b>Minstrel</b>!
> 
> 
> So you're saying that his size makes him a less-effective scorer. I agree with you, but that's not an artificial circumstance. His size is an intrinsic part of him, like someone else being a poor shooter or bad rebounder.
> 
> Some people argue that Iverson would be Jordan-like if he were 6'6''. Maybe, maybe not (I doubt he'd have his current quickness at that size)...but the fact is, he is the size he is. And, at his size, he has some issues that make him less valuable.


I'm saying that his size makes him a less effective shooter hence the low shooting percentage. I realize his size is a part of him that can not be changed. So is his quickness, which is why he uses that advantage to try to make up for his height disadvantage. He is still an effective scorer, yet not the most efficient. 

I was not implying (or did not mean to imply) that if he were taller he would be the best player in the elague or in league history, I was just saying that his height is a reason for his low shooting percentage, which is the thing most knocked on him when judging his value as a player. Of course he would be a different player if he were taller, and we would not know if he would be better or worse. However, this thread was saying he is the most overrated player in our generation, which I was debating that the excuse most people use to claim his "overratedness" (his shooting percentage), is due to his size and showed people the same stature and their shooting percentages. Thus, he should not be that overrated, and definitely not the most overrrated.


----------



## RapsFan

> Originally posted by <b>ripped110</b>!
> well iverson's size makes him shoot a lower %. i would say that makes him overrated would it not? can anyone honestly say that iverson is that good to where people deal with his BS? I mean hes a total malcontent, but he cant back it up. For all his arrogance you would think he is the best player in the NBA and he is nowhere near that. Not even the best at his own position. Not to mention his own team is going to trade him for next to nothing this offseason. I say he ends up in the worst sports town in america... none other than ATLANTA!!! hows that for purgatory.......


Okay, he is extremely overrated when people say he is the best player in the league. And maybe a bit overrated when people say he is in the top 10. However, he is not the most overrated player of our generation. That is what I am arguing.

Wouldn't people saying that Bill Russell was the best player in NBA History because he has the most NBA Championships (11 I think) more of an exaggeration than people saying that Iverson is one of the best players in the league today despite him having no championships and a low shooting percentage?


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## ripped110

yes saying that about bill russell is no doubt out of the question, although all those rings are impressive. I dont hear to many people say that Bill Russell is the greatest ever tho... I hear all the time that AI is either the best player in the league or top 10 tho... maybe its just the time we live in or whatever, but that to me is insane. Bill Russell is the greatest winner ever tho, something to be said for that


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## Max Payne

I've yet to meet someone who proclaims AI is the best player in the league and I live in Philadelphia so think about that.


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## ripped110

ok i want to know who everyone would say is the most overrated player of the last 20 years..... and be real dont even say shaq... yes shaq might have no real dribbling skills or shooting from far out. but the man flat out dominates. and he does have some decent low post back to the basket moves. way more then when he came in the league...... so who is the most overrated over the last 20 years? Derrick Coleman is up there for me espcially in his younger days.... the man had talent but never really put it together..... Billy Owens was another if any of you all remember him.


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## JT

Maybe if you'd look at more than the box score while judging Iverson, you'd see he's a real talent, someone who will just not quit no matter the cost. How else you think he got a bunch of role players with only himself as the legitimate superstar to the NBA Finals?

He shoots 41% for a little guy but so what? Most analysts would say that is extremely good considering he is barely 6 feet and the AVERAGE height in the league is around 6'7". Now deal with these facts.


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## ripped110

you want to know the real measure of heart? the real measure of heart is playing defense. Iverson plays no D whatsover. HE just hangs around in the passing lanes. He only plays with heart on offense. And even if he does play hard were talking about stats here.... not a feel good story about an undersized nba player.


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## futuristxen

> Originally posted by <b>ripped110</b>!
> you want to know the real measure of heart? the real measure of heart is playing defense. Iverson plays no D whatsover. HE just hangs around in the passing lanes. He only plays with heart on offense. And even if he does play hard were talking about stats here.... not a feel good story about an undersized nba player.


He is perenially leading the NBA in steals. Pretty good for defense. With his size at the 2, and hell, even the 1, he's prone to being posted up. But his quick hands even the score and get the Sixers easy transition buckets. He's also a good rebounder for his size.


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## ripped110

jesus. You dont play defense by stealing passes in the passing lanes. Ron artest plays Defense. AI is one of the worst on ball defenders in the league. They match up snow on the best guard on the opposing team. so whats that say for Iverson?


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## LA68

It's interesting to compare Iverson to Isiah because early in his career ,Isiah was Iverson. He and Tripucka had to put up shots because that's all the Pistons had. Once they aquired talent and put together a team, Isiah developed into the leader we all remember.

O.K. the sixers have not exactly build a powerhouse of any sort. But, my problem is that Iverson has never made anyone better including himself. He has not improved point skills or spot up shooting skills which any six foot guard should have.

Iverson still has enough gas in the tank for a short series. The east is so weak that the sixers could shock someone. But, he is pouting and sitting out when they need him now! He should be more focused at this part of the season. They could squeak into the playoffs. And he turned into a cancer. I can't excuse that.


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## John

Okay, it's enough. Let me settle the whole thing down right now. Unknowledgables are all saying Iverson doesnt play the point well, but let me ask for a question from all of you here.

If yourself, as a player can create your shot at will and can get to the line at will, would u consider passing the ball in your mind?

So there are the Stockons, Kidds and even Old time great Magic Johnsons who are limited in offense so the way they play is to look to pass and create plays but could have finished those plays if they do have the scoring ability like carter, Iverson, Kobe, and Jordan.

Iverson is far apart from the other small scoring guards like Francis, Marbury, Kevin Johnson and etc back then.

Steve Francis, Stephon Marbury, Kevin Johnson cannot PLAY WITHOUT THE BALL. That's what seperate Iverson apart from those good scoring point guards.

I didnt get to watch K. Johnson that much and since he is not playing in the NBA anymore so I will just talk about the current players.

A) Stepehon Marbury, he is probably the most overrated point guard in the game right now.

He cant play without the ball, it's not like Suns coaching staffs and Knicks are stupid but Marbury just cant play off screens. He runs pick and roll plays okay, but when was the last time you see a team which is pick and roll oriented won a championship, the KING of pick and roll plays, John Stockon and Karl Malone were close, but what will marbuy do then? And besides, Marbury is a second tier scorer in the game today, a guy can put up barely 20 points ON A MEDICORE TEAM. If Iverson is overrated since he doesnt get the coverage like the James, the T-macs, the Kobes, Marbury who basically gets the same coverage has to be considered an even more overrated player in the NBA.

B) Steve Francis, A even more worst version than Marbury, a basically one step lower player than Marbury plus the jumping only.

Steve Francis is a great rebounder, but will a championship team needs his rebounding in the game? Shaq's YES, Rodman's Yes. But as a guard, if u want to contribute on a championship, you either be the focal offense like Jordan, or be a sidekick, learned to play without the ball, finish plays when you have to. No freaking selfish mind here. Iverson was the focal point of the offense in Sixers, and at least he made it through to the NBA finals. But can Marbury, Franics won with the shots Iverson has to shoot every game? They couldnt even create that amount of shots for them to shoot. It's not like nba players get open shots, THEY DO HAVE TO CREATE SHOTS FOR THEMSELVES. If Iverson's shot attempts were totally ill-advised and air balls, I see a case we hate on him. But first, since we are talking about overrated, similiar size players who get the same TV exposure but are even worse obivously than Iverson arent even "MORE" overrated???

I dont like to type too long for now, thanks... More will be coming if it needs to be done.


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## GPS

> If yourself, as a player can create your shot at will and can get to the line at will, would u consider passing the ball in your mind?


Well, if that was the case then yes, I'd look for my shot first. But 40% shooting isn't "creating at will"  . If you wanna jack up 30 shots a game it's fine, but you better hit at least half of them, otherwise it is not eficient. Think about it man, every shot you miss is a fast break opportunity for the opposing team. Lets say I score 30 points on 12/30. 30 points is great, but when you check the fg % you can see that I'm giving up more points than I'm scoring. I'm not saying guards should be 50% shooters, but 40% is horrable. 



> So there are the Stockons, Kidds and even Old time great Magic Johnsons who are limited in offense


Hey, Magic wasn't a limited scorer, he just didn't have to shoot that much. I mean, he was no MJ scoringwise, but he'd score around 25 ppg if he had to.


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## John

> Originally posted by <b>GPS</b>!
> 
> 
> Well, if that was the case then yes, I'd look for my shot first. But 40% shooting isn't "creating at will"  . If you wanna jack up 30 shots a game it's fine, but you better hit at least half of them, otherwise it is not eficient. Think about it man, every shot you miss is a fast break opportunity for the opposing team. Lets say I score 30 points on 12/30. 30 points is great, but when you check the fg % you can see that I'm giving up more points than I'm scoring. I'm not saying guards should be 50% shooters, but 40% is horrable.
> 
> 
> 
> Hey, Magic wasn't a limited scorer, he just didn't have to shoot that much. I mean, he was no MJ scoringwise, but he'd score around 25 ppg if he had to.



Tell that to T-mac, I rarely see a sudden stop and pop three pointer in fast freak situation, nor a quick pick from his teammate then hoist some long range jumper when his team isnt in any sort of settled situation. Iverson always will attack closer to the rim before he shoots the ball. He created tons of open putbacks for scrubs to finish in games. 

Besides, you are 18 years ago, and I assume you werent even born when Maic Johndon was in his prime in the mid 80s. If you think Magic could have scored 25 points as the focal point of an offense instead of "score points when it is there" created by other great scoring options for LA unlikr Allen Iverson is their offense for an Eastern Conference Championship team, then you better watch more Iverson games.

PS: I am not talking about Magic has to play like Iverson nor Magic couldnt contribute to win games there, but he couldnt win a thing if he has to play the Iverson role.


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## mo76

> Originally posted by <b>ripped110</b>!
> you want to know the real measure of heart? the real measure of heart is playing defense. Iverson plays no D whatsover. HE just hangs around in the passing lanes. He only plays with heart on offense. And even if he does play hard were talking about stats here.... not a feel good story about an undersized nba player.


He was defensive player of the year in college.


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## Max Payne

Moderators, please shut this thread down. I think the point about Iverson NOT BEING OVERRATED, being a GREAT SCORER and a GREAT DEFENSIVE PLAYER has been made and proven by many of us. Furthur discussion on this subject with certain members of the board who have laughable arguments seems meaningless.


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## ripped110

anybody who says iverson is a great defensive player needs to get their eyes checked cause they cant see


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## Max Payne

Anybody who says a guy who averages 2.38 steals per game for his career is not a defensive stalwart should get his head checked because they can't THINK.   :laugh: :laugh:


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## ripped110

man u know nothing about basketball. On ball defense and getting steals is not the same thing whatsoever... learn the game son.


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## Spriggan

> Originally posted by <b>ripped110</b>!
> man u know nothing about basketball. On ball defense and getting steals is not the same thing whatsoever... learn the game son.


who do you think is the best guard in the league, defense-wise?


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## Max Payne

Dude, fix your grammar and learn to spell properly. I get the feeling that you're one of those guys who's team has been torched again and again by AI and that you're just so sick of him that you have to come out with scathing, meaningless attacks. You should go home and actually WATCH AI on defense before asking people to "learn the game". Don't call me "son" by the way.


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## ripped110

when this becomes english class instead of a message board then i will worry about that. why dont u worry about getting ur head out of AI's ***?


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## Max Payne

Dude your opinions are worthless and your arguments are laughable. You don't have to prove it any longer by making personal attacks on people who happen to admire the fact that there's a 6 foot guy who's 5th on the all-time career scoring averages and who IS IN FACT A DEFENSIVE FORCE. If you don't like it then just go away and become a hermit for a few years until AI retires.


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## TheRifleman

Personal attacks are against the rules. Lockdown.


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