# Pierce traded for Andre Miller and Nene?



## Weasel

http://www.insidehoops.com/



> InsideHoops.com editor Jeff Lenchiner reports that the Boston Celtics appear to be trading Paul Pierce to the Denver Nuggets for Andre Miller and Nene.


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## The One

interesting


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## Pejavlade

*Re: Pierce traded?*

Why would Boston do this trade. Hopefully its just a rumor.


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## ZÆ

*Paul Pierce TRADED?!?*



> A trusted source informs InsideHoops.com that the Boston Celtics are expected to trade Paul Pierce to the Denver Nuggets for Andre Miller and Nene. More players would be involved.


http://insidehoops.com/nba_rumors.shtml


*I looked for a thread about this but I did't see one, sorry if you guys already knew


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## Laker Freak

*Re: Paul Pierce TRADED?!?*

So this must be why Denver signed Earl Watson.


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## Ezmo

*Re: Paul Pierce TRADED?!?*

hmm...what other players would be involved i wonder
they already have boykins and watson at the point, so i doubt marcus or delonte would be going...maybe delonte since he's more of a 2 guard...


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## qross1fan

*Re: Paul Pierce TRADED?!?*

i dont see why the hell Boston would do this, sorry i just don't, someone explain


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## ZÆ

Witch team dose this help?

I think Denver.


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## MemphisX

Paul Pierce
6-6 SF from Kansas
21.6 ppg, 6.6 rpg, 4.2 apg in 36.1 minutes 
Mark Blount
7-0 C from Pittsburgh
9.4 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 1.6 apg in 26.0 minutes 
Incoming 
Andre Miller
6-2 PG from Utah
13.6 ppg, 4.1 rpg, 6.9 apg in 34.8 minutes 
Eduardo Najera
6-8 SF from Oklahoma
6.9 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 1.1 apg in 22.1 minutes 
Voshon Lenard
6-4 SG from Minnesota
9.7 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 2.0 apg in 18.0 minutes 
Nene Hilario
6-11 PF from Vasco De Gama (Brazil)
9.6 ppg, 5.9 rpg, 1.5 apg in 23.9 minutes 
Change in team outlook: +8.8 ppg, +5.4 rpg, and +5.7 apg. 


Denver Trade Breakdown 
Outgoing 
Andre Miller
6-2 PG from Utah
13.6 ppg, 4.1 rpg, 6.9 apg in 34.8 minutes 
Eduardo Najera
6-8 SF from Oklahoma
6.9 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 1.1 apg in 22.1 minutes 
Voshon Lenard
6-4 SG from Minnesota
9.7 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 2.0 apg in 18.0 minutes 
Nene Hilario
6-11 PF from Vasco De Gama (Brazil)
9.6 ppg, 5.9 rpg, 1.5 apg in 23.9 minutes 
Incoming 
Paul Pierce
6-6 SF from Kansas
21.6 ppg, 6.6 rpg, 4.2 apg in 36.1 minutes 
Mark Blount
7-0 C from Pittsburgh
9.4 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 1.6 apg in 26.0 minutes 
Change in team outlook: -8.8 ppg, -5.4 rpg, and -5.7 apg. 



Successful Scenario 
Due to Boston and Denver being over the cap, the 25% trade rule is invoked. Boston and Denver had to be no more than 125% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.


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## qross1fan

wont work, Boston has max roster size as is and would need to cut someone


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## Attila

Weasel said:


> InsideHoops.com editor Jeff Lenchiner reports that the Boston Celtics appear to be trading Paul Pierce to the Denver Nuggets for Andre Miller and Nene.



I hope it's not true. While I can see Denver doing this in a heartbreat, I'm not sure how Pierce and Carmello would play along together. They have a similar type of game.

It would explain why Watson was signed, and why Spree was not pursued we when seemed like a good fit for them.


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## Petey

Nene and Jefferson make for an interesting front court... WOW

-Petey


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## 23

just for those who dont read insidehoops everyday... they call everything rumors. they post all of the legit stories from around the L, and other than ESPN, you can bet if you see something here it's legit...

just check the site out from now on so you can see it for yourself. They dont play those kinds of hoopsworld type games


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## Damian Necronamous

If this goes through, Boston will have a ludicrous number of PGs.

Andre Miller
(Dan Dickau? What's the latest on him?)
Delonte West
Marcus Banks
Oriene Greene
Will Bynum


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan

so then the celtics would have 12 pgs under contract???...that would be a great move....lets have a starting 5 all 6'2 and under....see how that works...


btw inside hoops also said finley was signing with the heat....dont take anything they say seriously


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## DWest Superstar

Que?

I hate Pierce but... Que?


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## onetwo88

23 said:


> just for those who dont read insidehoops everyday... they call everything rumors. they post all of the legit stories from around the L, and other than ESPN, you can bet if you see something here it's legit...
> 
> just check the site out from now on so you can see it for yourself. They dont play those kinds of hoopsworld type games


This is correct

Literally 100% of stuff insidehoops.com THEMSELVES report has come true in the two years I've been reading the site

They seem to say this deal is "EXPECTED" which means it's like almost done or something but maybe not 100% done


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## DWest Superstar

Say hello to the 1st pick in the draft. Rudy Gay anyone?


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## DWest Superstar

We would have to throw Bynum/Greene/or Banks in there too. We already have 5 PGs


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## DHarris34Phan

This would be a GREAT deal for Boston IMO.


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## Banjoriddim

AJ Prus said:


> This would be a GREAT deal for Boston IMO.


Nice joke!


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## Rhubarb

Does this make Ricky Davis the main go-to guy?

Uh oh.


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## Premier

I love Nene, but seriously...


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## spongyfungy

#1AntoineWalkerFan said:


> so then the celtics would have 12 pgs under contract???...that would be a great move....lets have a starting 5 all 6'2 and under....see how that works...
> 
> 
> btw inside hoops also said finley was signing with the heat....dont take anything they say seriously


 Are you thinking hoopsworld? insidehoops has been accurate pretty much with their articles


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan

spongyfungy said:


> Are you thinking hoopsworld? insidehoops has been accurate pretty much with their articles




yes i may be mistaken...good catch...


plus the only way i do this deal is if carmelo is involved somehow...which i know is damn near impossible


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## E.H. Munro

Gerald Green said:


> We would have to throw Bynum/Greene/or Banks in there too. We already have 5 PGs


Denver'd need a combo guard, Delonte's more likely. Put me in the "Schlitz, we're getting stuck with Adam Morrisson and a decade of mediocrity" club.


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## E.H. Munro

And if they did do this it makes the Veal Scalabrine and Spotted Dickau signings even more bizarre.


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## vandyke

I would hate to see this deal, but the deal straight up does work on trade checker, and you have to wonder why would Denver go out and sign Watson who has been a backup to a 25mil dollar contract, I also wonder if this is a situation where Pierce is forcing Ainge's hand, it is pretty obvious that he is not happy here, so if that is the case we might as well move on now rather than later, but if that trade does happen there are about 5 players on this team that will have to be traded or cut really soon, probably Bynum, Woods, and Borchardt immediately and I don't see where there would be room for both La Frentz and Blount if we have Nene, and I don't see where we would have room for Greene, Banks, and Delonte 2 out of those three would have to be gone also.


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## Richie Rich

say it aint so


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## ¹²³

I think it is a good trade for Boston.

They are obviously in a rebulding mode. Let's re-shape the roster. More trades will probably follow this one.


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## vandyke

Richie Rich said:


> say it aint so


I want to say it aint so, but can't you kind of see the writing on the wall, it seems like Pierce parting ways with the Celtics was going to happen sooner or later, Pierce and Rivers probably weren't going to get along anyways, Pierce wants to play his style and Doc and Danny have another style in mind for this team so if it is going to happen it might as well be now, Pierce only has this year and next on his contract and then an option which is his option, if you try to trade him at the trading deadlines you will never get back any real value at the trading deadline, I don't want it to happen but if it does I still think in the long run it we will be a better team.


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## P-Dub34

Don't worry, ISH has reported that the rumor has been denied by a source in the Celtics organization.


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## E.H. Munro

I'll disagree here. Pierce couldn't "get out and run" last year because he was their rebounder. If he didn't stay back to grab the defensive boards not only would there be no break, but the other team would have scored a whole lot more on putbacks. He was fine in the halfcourt sets, especially in the back half of the year, when he'd adjusted to Doc's offense. And dumping a top 15 player for a run of the mill point and a guy that you hope can one day learn to play basketball does not "make the Celtics better in the long run". It sets them up to win 28-32 games next year, when there's no immediate help to be had in the draft. It looks like a seriously ugly trade, with the franchise betting everything on Jefferson being as good as Howard or Stoudamire. Here's hoping that Stern doesn't screw the Celtics out of Oden.


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## BackwoodsBum

I think this is actually a pretty good deal for the C's, although it does leave some unanswered questions. This deal adds a great deal to our front line and will take the pressure off of Jefferson by letting him come of the bench this year. Miller is much better at the point than anyone else the C's have (or probably could have gotten) so we're looking pretty good there too. I'm thinking that this also means the end of the West at PG experiment. We're going to be a little thin at the SF right now, but the C's have several swingmen who could fill that position adequetly. Assuming the Allen situation is resolved favorably and barring another trade, I'm guessing the rotations will look something like this should this deal go down:

PG - Miller/Dickau/Banks
SG - Davis/West/Allen
SF - Allen/Reed/Gomes
PF - Nene/Jefferson/Veal
C - Raef/Perkins/Blount

Developmental league - Green and Greene
Cut - Borchardt, Woods, Bynum.

That leaves one extra person to be cut and one two be put on the inactive list. Banks, Blount are the most likely to be traded or cut, and Veal, Reed, and Gomes most likely to spend some time on the IL. I'm guessing that Banks ends up being traded for future draft picks either as part of this deal or in a separate deal with another team. Should TA not be with the team on opening day, Reed and Gomes become more valuable so Veal moves to the head of the list of guys most likely to have a hangnail or something that keeps him on the IL for a while. Ricky Davis obviously becomes "The Man" for this team so he'll have to start. This lineup doesn't have the kind of star power to scare many teams, but there's a lot of talent and potential there so I'd like to see what they could do.


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## Causeway

ESPN Insider has jumped into the fray:



> Here come the Paul Pierce rumors again. With the Nuggets signing point guard Earl Watson, the team is now heavy in backcourt assets. Pro Basketball News speculates that a package of Andre Miller and Nene might be enough to pry Pierce from the Celtics.
> Kiki Vandeweghe and George Karl have repeatedly said they like their team and want to give them time to gel, however, Pierce is the outside threat they've been looking for. For the Celtics, Miller and Nene would fill the team's holes at point guard and the post.


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## vandyke

As most of the time I have to disagree with you again EH, I don't want to see Pierce go but if this trade does go through you are talking of a future nucleus of:

Miller
Green
Davis
Allen
Jefferson
Gomes
Nene
Perkins

You would be hard pressed to find such an athletic core of 8 players anywhere in this league.


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## truth

vandyke said:


> As most of the time I have to disagree with you again EH, I don't want to see Pierce go but if this trade does go through you are talking of a future nucleus of:
> 
> Miller
> Green
> Davis
> Allen
> Jefferson
> Gomes
> Nene
> Perkins
> 
> You would be hard pressed to find such an athletic core of 8 players anywhere in this league.


It happens to be one of the few trade scenarios that makes sense for both teams....


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## cgcatsfan

My first reaction was OH NO!! 
But after thinking about it, Miller and Nene could work for us. 
Nene's knee is supposed to be better and Miller's been solid. 
I would hate to see Pierce go, but if that writing is on the wall, we might as well get something good
for him.


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## lolac101

Is our point guards that bad that Danny has to stockpile that position like this. This is really really crazy. Miller and Ricky had their best days together so that would be a positive if this was true but I don't wanna see Pierce go. Thought he was just coming around to liking Doc's system.


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## DHarris34Phan

Banjoriddim said:


> Nice joke!


Considering what Vince Carter got traded for, this is a GREAT deal!


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## E.H. Munro

vandyke said:


> As most of the time I have to disagree with you again EH, I don't want to see Pierce go but if this trade does go through you are talking of a future nucleus of:
> 
> Miller
> Green
> Davis
> Allen
> Jefferson
> Gomes
> Nene
> Perkins
> 
> You would be hard pressed to find such an athletic core of 8 players anywhere in this league.


Perkins is a _terrible_ athlete, which would be the reason that the Celtics would be thinking of bringing in Hilario. Incredibly strong, but incredibly awkward, lacking lateral quickness, and run & jump athleticism. Jefferson didn't look terribly athletic in the summer league games I saw. Strong & quick, but not strong enough yet. Gomes? If he were really athletic he'd have been a first round pick. He's a highly skilled college 4 that's too short to play the 4 in the pros and _not athletic enough_ to have overcome most GMs doubts about his ability to play the 3. In fact, I wouldn't be hard pressed to find a core of players that athletic at all. Did you catch any Hawks games last year? That group won what, 12, 13 games? And they were far more athletic than the group you listed above could dream of being. The biggest athletes in that core would be the guys with the absolute rawest games, and the ones that might never pan out (Allen, Green, Hilario). We've already seen what Andre Miller & Ricky Davis can do as a tandem. It isn't pretty. And it won't be pretty. Davis deferred to Pierce because P-2's his friend and he viewed the Celtics as Paul's team. With Paul gone, guess who's team it will be? That Denver trade is an Adam Morrisson selection waiting to happen.


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## agoo

This would be awful. I would love to have Nene on this team any day. Same for Miller. However, there is no point to having Andre Miller if he does not have someone like Paul Pierce to pass it to.

I am all for dealing Paul Pierce, but this is stupid.


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## Petey

AJ Prus said:


> Considering what Vince Carter got traded for, this is a GREAT deal!


Great point.

-Petey


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## vandyke

agoo101284 said:


> This would be awful. I would love to have Nene on this team any day. Same for Miller. However, there is no point to having Andre Miller if he does not have someone like Paul Pierce to pass it to.
> 
> I am all for dealing Paul Pierce, but this is stupid.


Ok, then my question is honestly and reasonably what do you think you can get for PP, don't get me wrong I don't want to trade PP, but I think some people have unrealistic expectations on what you can get in return, even Shaq was traded for Odom, Butler, and Grant and a number 1 which you knew was going to be in the high 20's, which is crap for Shaq, they have already traded Butler and cut Grant, so basically they got pennies on the dollar for the best player in the game.


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## LX

AJ Prus said:


> Considering what Vince Carter got traded for, this is a GREAT deal!


The situation is COMPLETELY different. Carter was playing like *** in Toronto (when he decided to play). The Raptors weren't going to get anyone of that good value for a cancer.


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## Causeway

It is near impossible to get "true" value for a star player. Especially one that asks for a trade or who clearly has his mind on leaving. Shaq and Vince are good examples.


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## E.H. Munro

agoo101284 said:


> However, there is no point to having Andre Miller if he does not have someone like Paul Pierce to pass it to.


Bingo.


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## Premier

Nene and Al Jefferson is a great big man combo and Andre Miller is the pure point guard you old-timers have been wanting, but to deal a top twenty player for them is plain ridiculous. 

Why would anyone want for this to happen? It doesn't help with the youth movement and just lines us up for Daniel Gibson or Jordan Farmar, two point guards that would've been in the middle of the first-round this draft.


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## E.H. Munro

Adam Morrisson, Premier. That's the goal, they're turning the Celtics into a Honky Disaster Zone.


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## Premier

Well, Morrison could be Ainge's sick and twisted version of Larry Bird (white guy who could shoot).

Not to sound xenophobic.


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## Premier

If they were smart, they would deal Pierce at the deadline to a team serious about making a final playoff run for expring contracts and un-protected 2007 picks. No need to have another point guard (a better version of Dan Dickau) and a big man who still learning how to speak English (one of Nene's biggest faults, his lack of communication).


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## Premier

> As reported by PBN's Sam Amico earlier this summer, the Boston Celtics have been shopping Paul Pierce. *A package of Miller and Nene might be enough to pry him away from the Celtics.*
> 
> Pierce would no doubt fill Denver’s need for a legitimate outside threat, and the Nuggets would presumably remain strong at the point guard position with a Watson and Boykins tandem. The move would also make sense for Boston, giving Celtics GM Danny Ainge the solid starting point guard he has long been coveting, while also providing the team with some athleticism and bulk down low




Travis Heath of Pro Basketball News thought of this trade originally.


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## Premier

Original rumor (from CelticsBlog):




> A source informed InsideHoops.com editor Jeff Lenchiner Wednesday evening that the Boston Celtics are expected to trade all-star guard/forward Paul Pierce to the Denver Nuggets for guard Andre Miller and forward/center Nene.





> It’s not known if other players are involved in the completion of the deal.




WEEI shot it down immediately once it surfaced.


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## Premier

CelticsBlog:



> *
> InsideHoops Shoots Down Its Own Rumor*
> September 8th, 2005 by Jeff
> 
> From the source itself:





> But late Thursday morning a high-ranking member of the Celtics organization personally informed InsideHoops.com that the rumor is incorrect.
> 
> ​And if you need more info, I’m told by Gabe Kahn that Ainge asked about Miller a few years back but “there was something sketchy about Andre that made Ainge deem him to be a hands off type of player, a guy who Ainge didn’t want to deal with. Whether it was injury or attitude related, I don’t know. ”
> 
> *Update:* Now InsideHoops is hedging its bets. The quote now says “…a high-ranking member of the Celtics organization personally* shot down thoughts that a deal is done*.” Sounds like they are leaving the door open in case a deal happens.
> 
> *Update 2: * They updated the page AGAIN. Now “…a high-ranking member of the Celtics organization *personally shot down the rumor*.”
> 
> *Update 3:* Why not make another change? Now “…a high-ranking member of the Celtics organization told InsideHoops.com *via email that the rumor is “incorrect.”* ”
> 
> Finally we have a direct quote, even if it is just one word. This could be anything from a standard denial because the deal isn’t finished yet to a legitimate denial of a total fabrication. Or it could be something in the middle.
> 
> There seems to be more smoke, we’ll see soon enough if there is a fire down there somewhere.




*Four edits?*


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## Premier

1510 TheZone denies the rumor. CelticsBlog:



> *
> 110% Chance*
> <small>September 8th, 2005 by Jeff </small>
> 
> Ryen Russillo’s sources tells him that there is a *“110% chance Paul is wearing a Celtics jersey opening night.”* (Russillo is from 1510 TheZone’s Diehards)


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## DHarris34Phan

Lanteri said:


> The situation is COMPLETELY different. Carter was playing like *** in Toronto (when he decided to play). The Raptors weren't going to get anyone of that good value for a cancer.


So you should be happy that you got good value for Pierce before he went Vince Carter on you.


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## Premier

Why not keep him or atleast trade him for something that would help with our rebuilding like draft picks and expiring contracts. We will be bad, but not bad enough to draft Mayo and certainly not bad enought to draft Oden.


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## Premier

Lanteri, god bless Danny Ainge, _right_?


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## socco

Premier said:


> *Four edits?*


They did that with the original story too. Right away it said that other players would be involving, and then they changed it to say that other players might be involved, and then they changed it to say other players might be involved but they would be lesser players and only in the deal for salary purposes.


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## Premier

socco said:


> They did that with the original story too.


That is what I'm reffering to.



> Right away it said that other players would be involving, and then they changed it to say that other players might be involved, and then they changed it to say other players might be involved but they would be lesser players and only in the deal for salary purposes.


It is quite amazing, isn't it? ISH is trying to do some damage control if they're wrong.


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## DHarris34Phan

Premier said:


> Why not keep him or atleast trade him for something that would help with our rebuilding like draft picks and expiring contracts.


Do you think you could draft someone as good as Nene? Nene is only 23 years old, and in the Western Conference has put up double doubles for the past 3 seasons.

I can see a gripe with A. Miller's contract, as it is pretty bad.....

Why would you trade Pierce for draft picks or to clear up capspace when you don't really know what could come of it. With Nene, you have a guy that can easily put up 15 and 10 next year, and with A. Miller you have a top 10 PG....pretty good deal as you already have Gerald Green and Al Jeff to rebuild with.


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## Premier

Nene averaging ten boards per game? He's a rather poor rebounder. In fourty minutes, he doesn't even average ten per game. His rebound rate is 12.5 for his career. Let's put it this way, Raef LaFrentz is a career 13.5 and 14.7 last season. Nene's only good attribute is his defense, which is superb.

Andre Miller is a good starting point guard, something we need, but we have five other point guards for doug christie's sake. He will be 33 when his contract expires.

Could've dealed Ricky Davis straight up for Nene.


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## FanOfAll8472

agoo101284 said:


> This would be awful. I would love to have Nene on this team any day. Same for Miller. However, there is no point to having Andre Miller if he does not have someone like Paul Pierce to pass it to.
> 
> I am all for dealing Paul Pierce, but this is stupid.


I agree, but would like to note the players Andre Miller played with the season he averaged over 10 assists per game - Lamond Murray (pretty sure he was the leading scorer, if not, it was 'Dre), Ricky Davis, Wesley Person, and an unrefined Big Z. The season before that, he averaged 8-9 apg, feeding a variety of players, such as Murray, Big Z, Chris Gatling, etc.


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## KingHandles

If pierce is traded I will probably whatch about 2 Celtics games all year when I haven't missed one in 3 years. im sick of the players were getting like Borchardt, Scalabrine etc...It's completely ruining my Celtics Pride. If we trade Paul for these 2 when we could get something so much better I will be at the end... :brokenhea


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## cos

To all of you who think this is a trade that would help the celtics, I have no idea what your thinking. Why on earth would we do this. You guys act as if Jefferson and Green are all-stars in the league. While I too think jefferson can be great, and except for the highlight reel dunk on some scrubs in a summer league game, both have yet to do anything significant to justify your praise. while its nice to have, its just potential right now. Shoot, green hasn't even played an actual nba game yet. 

why is it so hard to believe that Pierce can actually help this team next year and the rest of his career. He will have a full season under Doc (jury's still out on his coaching) and will have an idea of what he wants the team to do and how to play. He is the go to scorer on our team and still demands a double team. Who else is going to do that. 

Not to mention that Pierce is obviously our best player, and we are going to dump him for Nene and Miller. I was actually hoping that we drafted miller back in the day but those 2 do not equal 1 Paul Pierce. Also, do not forget that in the World Championships that Karl coached, Pierce was the scap goat (maybe deserved, maybe not) but its hard to believe that Karl would welcome him back with open arms when he was quoted as not liking his game. 

And then they have Mello who has a very similiar game as pierce. 

Yes, we are rebuilding, but I really believe the right way to rebuild is what Ainge has done already...build through the draft, cut cap space, and minor, small time free agents. And you DO NOT trade your best, all-star player until your REALLY ready to go after it. And at that point you only trade him for someone of equal value.

no matter how you cut it, Paul Pierce does not equal Miller and Nene. 

If this trade goes down it will be one of the worst trades I have ever seen and i really think celtics fans will be really pissed at the outcome. 

my 2 cents.


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## Premier

Great post cos.

I agree with pretty much everything you said.


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## Causeway

Me too. Bottom line is the trade really does not make sense at all.


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## DWest Superstar

Causeway said:


> Me too. Bottom line is the trade really does not make sense at all.


Bottom line is the trade never happened


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## Premier

Let's hope it _never_ does happen.


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## BackwoodsBum

cos said:


> To all of you who think this is a trade that would help the celtics, I have no idea what your thinking. Why on earth would we do this. You guys act as if Jefferson and Green are all-stars in the league. While I too think jefferson can be great, and except for the highlight reel dunk on some scrubs in a summer league game, both have yet to do anything significant to justify your praise. while its nice to have, its just potential right now. Shoot, green hasn't even played an actual nba game yet.
> 
> why is it so hard to believe that Pierce can actually help this team next year and the rest of his career. He will have a full season under Doc (jury's still out on his coaching) and will have an idea of what he wants the team to do and how to play. He is the go to scorer on our team and still demands a double team. Who else is going to do that.
> 
> Not to mention that Pierce is obviously our best player, and we are going to dump him for Nene and Miller. I was actually hoping that we drafted miller back in the day but those 2 do not equal 1 Paul Pierce. Also, do not forget that in the World Championships that Karl coached, Pierce was the scap goat (maybe deserved, maybe not) but its hard to believe that Karl would welcome him back with open arms when he was quoted as not liking his game.
> 
> And then they have Mello who has a very similiar game as pierce.
> 
> Yes, we are rebuilding, but I really believe the right way to rebuild is what Ainge has done already...build through the draft, cut cap space, and minor, small time free agents. And you DO NOT trade your best, all-star player until your REALLY ready to go after it. And at that point you only trade him for someone of equal value.
> 
> no matter how you cut it, Paul Pierce does not equal Miller and Nene.
> 
> If this trade goes down it will be one of the worst trades I have ever seen and i really think celtics fans will be really pissed at the outcome.
> 
> my 2 cents.



I don't think that Jefferson and Green are all stars...yet. I think that both could be in a couple of years though. The reason I think this would be a good trade is that I don't think you could get much better for Pierce right now, and I think his trade value is only going to get worse. I'm a firm beliver in the idea of addition by subtraction and I've said many times that I would trade Pierce for a warm cup of spit just to get him off the team. In my opinion he is a a self centered *** who will hamper the development of the young guys by undercutting Doc if he tries to force Pierce to play a team role and not be the one-man show he seems to believe he is. Pierce's reputation around the league has been getting worse in recent years and while there is no denying that he is extremely talented his trade value isn't nearly as high as it used to be. Think about it. You say Pierce was a scapegoat for the US team looking as bad as they did but Karl wasn't the only one who was obviously displeased with Pierce. A number of the players spoke out about his selfishness. His constant sulking the last couple of years, his obvious lack of understanding of the term "good sportsmanship", and his general "me first" attitude has made a number of fans (such as me) completely sick of seeing him disgrace the Celtic tradition. 

My personal feelings towards Pierce aside, it's obvious that he is not going to bring a championship to this team without a LOT of help and it's going to be at least a couple of years before the young guys reach the point where they could conceivably be considered parts of a championship caliber team. Do you honestly think that Pierce will suddenly have a change of heart and decide to be a team player and help the current roster win as many games as they can and develop for the future or do you thin khe will continue to sulk and whine and eventually pull a Vince Carter? I'm betting on the latter. If he hasn't already told Ainge he wants out of Boston it's just a matter of time before he does. Once the other teams in the league know he's trying to force Ainge's hand, his trade value will drop even further as the teams try to get something for nothing. Considering some of the trade scenarios that have been rumored over the summer were pretty ridiculous, I feel that this isn't a bad deal for either team. Personally I would like it better if we could throw Blount in and pick up an expiring contract too, but Pierce for Nene and Miller suits me fine if that's the best we can get out of them. ,


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## ¹²³

Premier said:


> Let's hope it _never_ does happen.


Never say never.


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## aquaitious

BackwoodsBum said:


> I don't think that Jefferson and Green are all stars...yet. I think that both could be in a couple of years though. The reason I think this would be a good trade is that I don't think you could get much better for Pierce right now, and I think his trade value is only going to get worse. I'm a firm beliver in the idea of addition by subtraction and I've said many times that I would trade Pierce for a warm cup of spit just to get him off the team. In my opinion he is a a self centered *** who will hamper the development of the young guys by undercutting Doc if he tries to force Pierce to play a team role and not be the one-man show he seems to believe he is. Pierce's reputation around the league has been getting worse in recent years and while there is no denying that he is extremely talented his trade value isn't nearly as high as it used to be. Think about it. You say Pierce was a scapegoat for the US team looking as bad as they did but Karl wasn't the only one who was obviously displeased with Pierce. A number of the players spoke out about his selfishness. His constant sulking the last couple of years, his obvious lack of understanding of the term "good sportsmanship", and his general "me first" attitude has made a number of fans (such as me) completely sick of seeing him disgrace the Celtic tradition.
> 
> My personal feelings towards Pierce aside, it's obvious that he is not going to bring a championship to this team without a LOT of help and it's going to be at least a couple of years before the young guys reach the point where they could conceivably be considered parts of a championship caliber team. Do you honestly think that Pierce will suddenly have a change of heart and decide to be a team player and help the current roster win as many games as they can and develop for the future or do you thin khe will continue to sulk and whine and eventually pull a Vince Carter? I'm betting on the latter. If he hasn't already told Ainge he wants out of Boston it's just a matter of time before he does. Once the other teams in the league know he's trying to force Ainge's hand, his trade value will drop even further as the teams try to get something for nothing. Considering some of the trade scenarios that have been rumored over the summer were pretty ridiculous, I feel that this isn't a bad deal for either team. Personally I would like it better if we could throw Blount in and pick up an expiring contract too, but Pierce for Nene and Miller suits me fine if that's the best we can get out of them. ,


I see Pierce turning into a Micheal Finley kind of guy, who in his late early 30's will be surounded by a great team (Dallas 3 years ago, when they were dominating). I just don' tthink that he'll accept his role, as Finely did, to Jefferson and (maybe) Green. But let's say that we do keep Pierce for a few more years, I really wouldn't mind trading him for 2 roll players. If Al and Green reach 70% of their potential in the next few years, adding a bunch of roll players to go along with them, would really be great for this team.


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## cpt.napalm

Yes Pierce is good, but you have to ask in the short term can he carry the team to any meaningful destination by himself? He is a case of diminishing returns. He is at or very near his prime. Finding a deal that builds for 2 years down the road as your other players such as Green come into their own and create a more rounded team is hard. I think that this deal is a damn fine offer that covers 2 of your needs. Miller may not have longevity but Nene sure does. Plus whatever filler you recieve be it draft picks or not. Like others have said deal the ticking carter-bomb you have waiting to blow up in your face leaving you with nothing and most likely leaving you with bloated contracts and expired players. 

But it doesn't even sound like it will happen now so who knows. I wouldn't look at trading Pierce as a bad thing.


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## whiterhino

Premeir mentioned draft picks and cap space for Pierce, I DON'T want draft picks and cap space. We've had enough draft picks over the last 3 years and will have another this year and another in 2007 bc we don't have any year we gave them all way in. At some point you need to balance the youth with vets you can't just keep going younger and younger. Anyway, I agree with everything that BackwardsBum stated. I'm all done with Pierce.
On the note of this in particular trade, one of if not 2 of the young PG's must go in a trade like this, we can't have 6 of them on guaranteed deals. Blount too must go. Whatever makes it work, fine. As for loving the deal, no I don't. I think Nene is intriguing and Andre is slightly above average at the point but it's not exciting to me. I liked the Clippers deal much better that most of you hated. BUT I agree that Pierce's value is diminishing and he's not happy to be here. I would not be surprised if he has demanded a trade but agreed to keep it quiet. If this is what we get, it could be a lot worse, it could be like Toronto's fleecing in the VC deal. It could also be like the Walker deal which I think was much worse than this one.


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## cgcatsfan

I'd have to agree, whiter rhino.
We don't need more draft picks, especially when you take into account the age limit kicking in. 
We only have three players with 5 or more years of experience. 
Pierce (unhappy), Davis and Blount :raised_ey .....
Next is Scalabrine with 4 and Qyntel Woods with 3 :eek8: 

I am not liking a lot of our options right now, but at least Allen has played more than 2 years in the NBA.


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## Premier

How do you rebuild with veterans that prevent you from tanking for the big three of Durant, Mayo, and especially Oden?

Andre Miller is more than slightly above average. If this trade is true, he will be the best point guard we've had in a while.

The Clipper deal just gets back Pierce-lite and a marginal prospect in Wilcox. Nene is better, but it doesn't make sense as a rebuilding trade and if it isn't a rebuilding trade, we just traded Pierce for half of his value.


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## Premier

Why do you guys want to be competitive if Pierce is gone? If he is, I wouldn't mind losing every game. Sure, it will kill fan support, but if Pierce is traded at the right time, we will be rewarded in the '07 draft.


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## Starbury03

Maybe the Celtics can get the next Bill Russell in Greg Oden in 07' then Green and Jefferson might be ready to go after getting valuable experience with big roles with Pierce gone.


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## Premier

Even if we don't get Oden, the '07 draft is good. Likely the best in years.


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan

i dont get the love affair with greg oden and oj mayo on this board....sure they look like great high schoolers...but so did kwame brown and desagana diop...i dont want to trade pierce even if it is to get one of these high schoolers...if the clippers couldnt construct a good team getting top 5 picks every year then we are not gonna have a good team with a bunch of mid first round picks that are already on our roster and oden or mayo...i dont know about u guys but i dont want to watch a bunch of players who are 19 20 and 21 running our basketball team for the next 3 yrs


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## Starbury03

Greg Oden is a much better prospect than Diop or Brown. Some think he is the best prep center since Kareem. I dont like Mayo I think he will have an average NBA career and maybe put some nice numbers up on a crappy team. But Oden is gonna be a moster when he enters the NBA.


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## Premier

Greg Oden has been heralded as the top high school basketball prospect ever since he was a Freshman.

OJ Mayo has a similar skill-set to LeBron James.

I don't know much on these prospects (ask cheezdoodle or HKF), but they certainly are franchise players.


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## Starbury03

I have seen Mayo and he isnt anywhere near the prospect that Lebron was you cant really compare them. Green is a better prospect to me. Also his teammates Billy Walker is a better than Mayo and will be better, he is the best dunker I have ever seen. And he has a nasty crossover this guy once he gets a jumper and away from Mayo and with a good point guard he will be a great player.


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## Zuca

Work a move...

Denver send Andre Miller and Marcus Camby to Boston; send Mark Blount to Minnesota; Send Marcus Banks to Miami;
Boston send Paul Pierce to Denver; send Qyntel Woods and Curtis Borchardt to Orlando;
Orlando send Pat Garrity to Denver;
Minnesota send Michael Olowokandi (and maybe a 2nd rounder if needed) to Boston;
Miami send Dorrell Wright to Boston;

Boston: Get rid of Blount big contract with Kandi, which has an expiring contract; He is fine to backup Camby/Raef... Andre is a good player to start at PG; Dorrell is another young prospect, which can play SF/SG...

Denver: Paul Pierce... and move Nene to C, while add Garrity to play as a backup PF.

Orlando: Get rid of Garrity contract, adding another young C and a swingman in Qyntel Woods, which was said (Before he gets drafted) he could've turned as another T-Mac... Who knows?! (LOL)

Minnesota: Definitely an upgrade at C position with Blount...

Miami: Add Banks as their backup PG... A defensive-minded PG to play when Jason Williams plays bad defense...


Thoughts?


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## Premier

Why would Boston do that? If they are rebuilding, they don't need two veterans like Camby and Miller. I love Wright, but at the expense of Pierce and Banks? Nope.

I would deal Ricky Davis to Denver for Nene, though.


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## thetruth556

Zuca said:


> Work a move...
> 
> Denver send Andre Miller and Marcus Camby to Boston; send Mark Blount to Minnesota; Send Marcus Banks to Miami;
> Boston send Paul Pierce to Denver; send Qyntel Woods and Curtis Borchardt to Orlando;
> Orlando send Pat Garrity to Denver;
> Minnesota send Michael Olowokandi (and maybe a 2nd rounder if needed) to Boston;
> Miami send Dorrell Wright to Boston;


That would mean that Miami gets rid of one of their top prospects in Dorell Wright and all they get back is marcus banks. The Celtics would get Andre Miller, Marcus Camby, Michael Olowokandi and Dorell Wright? It just doesnt seem to be realistic.


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## E.H. Munro

Starbury03 said:


> I have seen Mayo and he isnt anywhere near the prospect that Lebron was you cant really compare them. Green is a better prospect to me. Also his teammates Billy Walker is a better than Mayo and will be better, he is the best dunker I have ever seen. And he has a nasty crossover this guy once he gets a jumper and away from Mayo and with a good point guard he will be a great player.


Green better than Mayo? Only in G-2's dreams. Green's a Rip Hamilton level prospect (NOTE: This STRICTLY a production comp, not a style comparison, G-2 is a poor man's T-Mac, but in the long term probably not as good as Dorrell Wright). Mayo will be a one in the NBA, and will do a great job there. He should be better than Starbury, and that ain't bad. Walker will be a much better scorer, but he's going to be a 2 in the show, and he _should_ be a better scorer. But Boston's loaded on the wing, their glaring weaknesses are at the 1 and 5, so Oden & Mayo are better fits for the Celtics than Walker (though I'd give up Green for him in a heartbeat).


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## Starbury03

Mayo is a trigger happy guard who shoots way too many 3's and shoots a very low percentage. As of now he should be picked in the 20's and he doesnt look to be getting better. I have seen both players in person and have a firend who has seen both play multiple times and person and we agree on this. Mayo is way to over hyped this guy is gonna be a bust.


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## The One

Who's the starting point guard for the Nuggets now?


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## Premier

Andre Miller because this trade is not going to happen.

If it is, then Earl Watson.


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## BostonBasketball

I really see OJ Mayo as becoming the next Dajuan Wagner/Homeless Guy's Steve Francis. He is a very good scorer with above average passing ability, but a bad shooter and one who dribbles far too much. Granted I have not seen him play so I can not fairly judge him, but from everything I have read about him, this is the impression I get of him. On the other hand Greg Oden to me is the ultimate center. He blocks shots and is a good defensive player, he can rebound, he can score and hes got a nasty streak that works well for him. I think that Oden will be a fantasic player in the NBA and would be thrilled is the Celtics got him. Can you imagine a lineup featuring Oden, Jefferson and Green (if their potentials had been reached). Can you imagaine having three players with the ability to average 20-25 ppg and two with the ability to average 9-15 rbg.


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## Zuca

thetruth556 said:


> That would mean that Miami gets rid of one of their top prospects in Dorell Wright and all they get back is marcus banks. The Celtics would get Andre Miller, Marcus Camby, Michael Olowokandi and Dorell Wright? It just doesnt seem to be realistic.


Miami will use Banks (which was a lottery pick and isn't a bad player) as a backup PG a lot more than Dorell in their roster, since they have now Walker, Haslem and Posey to play forward... And the fact they're looking for another cheap SF mean they won't use Dorell so much... Oh, and they're looking to sign Casey Jacobsen to play as a backup SG...

It's a fair trade... Boston will have some good play in Camby (with Raef playing as a PF) and Andre starting at PG... Dorell can shine... and I think that Wolves would do a Kandi for Blount move too.


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## Premier

You don't trade your top prospect for a lesser one. Miami wouldn't do that.

The Celtics, if they trade Paul Pierce, aren't interested in veterans. We're rebuilding if Pierce is traded.


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## E.H. Munro

BostonBasketball said:


> I really see OJ Mayo as becoming the next Dajuan Wagner/Homeless Guy's Steve Francis. He is a very good scorer with above average passing ability, but a bad shooter and one who dribbles far too much. Granted I have not seen him play so I can not fairly judge him, but from everything I have read about him, this is the impression I get of him


He's 6'4", legitimately (unlike Delonte), and weighs in at 195 at the moment, nothing at all like Wagner. A good portion of Wagner's problem was that he was 6' 165 and far too injury prone as a result. The other part of Wagner's problem was the fact that his off hand was worthless (kind of like West) and that he didn't have a really great handle. None of these are problems in Mayo's game. Stevie Franchise developed his game under Gary Williams, who's ruined more guards than any coach in NCAA history. That also won't happen with Mayo. Mayo will go straight to the NBA, and odds are will be as receptive to coaching as most high schoolers are (it's the college stars that resist changing their games to suit their coaches needs). He'll be fine in the show so long as he lands in the right spot.


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## whiterhino

Premier said:


> You don't trade your top prospect for a lesser one. Miami wouldn't do that.
> 
> The Celtics, if they trade Paul Pierce, aren't interested in veterans. We're rebuilding if Pierce is traded.


When you rebuild it does not mean everyone on your team is 21 or younger, this is a business, they owners need to make money, they will not stand for that and that does NOT work. The Clippers and for years the Bulls proved that. The Bulls may still be young but they have experienced role players like Antonio Davis, Eric Piatowski, Othella Harrington, and Adrienne Griffen to give experience to the young guys and even guys like Curry & Chandler, although young are entering their 5th seasons in the NBA....that is the ONLY reason the Bulls have finally started winning. You don't win with a roster of teenagers and I don't care what their names are. You also don't tank hopeing to get a certain guy, you do remember the Tim Duncan fiasco don't you. That is not what this team needs and thank God not what the owners will put up with.


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## Premier

The Golden State Warriors proved half-assed rebuilding doesn't work for ten odd years.

The Chicago Bulls are looking like a great team with a tremendous future starting five in Chandler, Curry, Deng, Gordon, and Hinrich.

The Clippers waste their draft picks and never resign anyone. If they had a better owner, they would easily be in the playoff.

Role players can be on the IR for all I care as long as they are making the minimum.

To rebuild, you must first destroy.


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## Premier

ISH with their fifth edit:



> *PAUL PIERCE UPDATE*
> 
> *By InsideHoops.com*
> Sept. 13, 2005
> 
> It looks like The Truth can keep his bags unpacked.
> 
> Late last Wednesday night, a proven source informed InsideHoops.com that word was Boston Celtics star Paul Pierce is expected to be sent to the Denver Nuggets, with Andre Miller and Nene to Boston in return. But Thursday morning, a high-ranking member of the Boston Celtics contacted InsideHoops.com to shoot down the rumor. Calls on Thursday to the agents of both Paul Pierce and Andre Miller were not returned.
> 
> Yesterday, a source familiar with Celtics thinking said that Boston probably won't do anything with Pierce anytime soon. He's been around for years, they want him to stay, he wants to stay, fans love him, and chances are he'll be there for a long time. The source said Denver would be happy to grab Pierce, as would lots of teams, but no trade is close to happening right now.
> 
> Is a Pierce deal possible? Anything is possible. Everyone is tradeable. And there's always lots of Pierce chatter. But unless the Celtics are totally in the tank a few months into the season and a major change is needed, the source says chances are Pierce isn't going anywhere in the near future.


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## DWest Superstar

> The Clippers waste their draft picks and never resign anyone. If they had a better owner, they would easily be in the playoff.


Elgin Baylor


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## Premier

Baylor and a cheap owner like Donald Sterling.


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## KJay

trade him to the bulls for some of their players so the bulls can have more KU playerts.


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## DWest Superstar

KJay said:


> trade him to the bulls for some of their players so the bulls can have more KU playerts.


We have more KU players than they do, they have more Duke players than KU


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## Premier

I agree. Let's sign Jay Williams and trade him on December 15th for Kirk Hinrich.

Any objections?


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## KJay

hehe I'd do that.


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## whiterhino

Premier said:


> The Golden State Warriors proved half-assed rebuilding doesn't work for ten odd years.
> 
> The Chicago Bulls are looking like a great team with a tremendous future starting five in Chandler, Curry, Deng, Gordon, and Hinrich.
> 
> The Clippers waste their draft picks and never resign anyone. If they had a better owner, they would easily be in the playoff.
> 
> Role players can be on the IR for all I care as long as they are making the minimum.
> 
> To rebuild, you must first destroy.


THE BULLS SUCKED FOR 8 YEARS until they got some vets on the freaking team. You don't win with a bunch of kids as your only players. You don't value the influence of vets on the team, you have to understand what they contribute in the locker room. Why do think a team like Utah wanted a player like Ostertag back, certainly not because he's a star on the floor. LOCKER-ROOM presense.


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## Premier

The Bulls sucked because they made bad trades. Why trade Elton Brand? Why trade Brad Miller and Ron Artest? Their veterans are terrible and the only reason why they are good is because they have six good young players.


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## Nets0701

What every happened to this 'rumor'


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## Premier

It's fake.


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