# Travis' value is high...the league is noticing....any chance to make a big move



## darkhelmit54 (Jan 23, 2005)

I feel like we're just nearing the point where other fans wouldn't freak out if their team traded for him, and other managements will be looking at him. Do you think there's any chance we make a splash. I know he just started stepping it up, but in the long term picture we don't really have a ton of room for him playing a ball dominating way, and his shot will come back down to earth. Is there any chance KP cashes in on the player who's been with the team for the longest?

What do you think we could get back for Jarret (c'mon we have rudy coming over), Travis, and the pick (may not be as great now)?

We would look like this after the deal this year...

Blake/Sergio
Roy/Jones
Webster/Jones
Aldridge/Frye/Mcroberts
Pryzbilla/Lafrentz

next year...

Blake/Sergio
Roy/Fernandez
Webster
Aldridge/Frye/Mcroberts
Oden/Pryzbilla

couldn't we add something great with a package like that?


----------



## tradetheo (Feb 24, 2005)

I would rather look to dump webster and jack. Jones is still young enough that he could be here in 2-3 years, and outlaw is really young, so it's win win, we could get a really good player for those 2 and the pick.


----------



## MAS RipCity (Feb 22, 2003)

im surprised it wasn't andre miller or iggy involved in this deal for us  Man, we would be foolish to trade Travis right now.


----------



## crowTrobot (Jun 24, 2005)

darkhelmit54 said:


> and his shot will come back down to earth.


what reason do you have to think that? his shot has been gradually improving for years as he's got more playing time and experience, not suddenly. no reason to think he's going to suddenly slide back to where he was 2-3 years ago.


----------



## Public Defender (May 5, 2003)

darkhelmit54 said:


> I know he just started stepping it up, but in the long term picture we don't really have a ton of room for him playing a ball dominating way, and his shot will come back down to earth. Is there any chance KP cashes in on the player who's been with the team for the longest?


Um... "ball dominating way"? I don't see that. Sure, Travis shoots much of the time when he gets the ball - but I'm sure it's because the way he's been shooting, the coaching staff and his teammates are egging him on. However, Travis has the athleticism, length, and innate ability to be a great off-the-ball scorer on garbage plays, offensive rebounds, alley-oops, and all kinds of opportunities for when his jumper isn't falling. 

Pritchard would be a complete idiot to trade Outlaw right now - unless it was for Chris Paul or some other real top-tier player at a position the Blazers could use. As it stands, the Blazers have the makings of a great team. Nate and Kevin should know better than to screw it up just when it's starting to jell.


----------



## Boob-No-More (Apr 24, 2006)

Maybe we should trade Brandon Roy. He's playing pretty good right now, too and was just recently named Western Conference POW. Obviously, people around the league are noticing and his value is higher than ever. What do you guys think?

BNM


----------



## wastro (Dec 19, 2004)

Boob-No-More said:


> Maybe we should trade Brandon Roy. He's playing pretty good right now, too and was just recently named Western Conference POW. Obviously, people around the league are noticing and his value is higher than ever. What do you guys think?
> 
> BNM


I came in here to post this exact same thing.

Seriously, can't we enjoy success, instead of trying to trade the good players away?


----------



## alext42083 (Nov 7, 2003)

Yeah, trade a 23-year-old forward just coming into his own and in a stretch of scoring 20-plus points in five of his last six games.
Travis is becoming part of that core with Roy, Aldridge and Oden. It'd be dumb to move him... and for what?


----------



## Boob-No-More (Apr 24, 2006)

Public Defender said:


> Um... "ball dominating way"? I don't see that.


Well, he is averaging 12.5 FGA/Game over the last six games. Who does he think he is, Kobe Freaking Bryant. What a ballhog. It's not like he's had a hot hand lately or anything. Guy's a chucker, no doubt about it.

BNM


----------



## BlayZa (Dec 31, 2002)

this thread has legs


----------



## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

Freshtown said:


> *deleted*


oh the irony... 200+ posts and still can't grasp the one rule on the board

I'm open to trading any player on the club. But the offer for a 23 year old playing as well as TO with his sort of up side ought to command a pretty decent return. The three year deal he signed at 4M per looks like a bargain.



wastro said:


> Seriously, can't we enjoy success, instead of trying to trade the good players away?


I'm enjoying the roll the team is on, but I also enjoy the random banter and trade stuff. It's not like the discussions we have influence the outcome of games or player personnel moves... right?

From a selfish perspective, I sure am happy that I picked Travis up two games back for my fantasy team. Dude is killing.

STOMP


----------



## BlazerCaravan (Aug 12, 2004)

BlayZa said:


> this thread has legs


Outlaw has legs... this thread is like falling to the bottom of a well.


----------



## hasoos (Jan 3, 2003)

I was a very unsure fan about resigning Travis this season, I pretty much thought it would be a mistake. No more. I was the one who would have made a mistake. I am now a believer. This guy looks more confident, more comfortable, and more like a handful for other teams to worry about every night. I could not believe how bad he was making Kirilenko look tonight. That's right Andre Kirilenko, primo defender. He made him look like a fool. 

As for making a trade, why would you make a trade when a team is just starting to Gel? You make a trade when it isn't working. It is. Patience Grasshopper.


----------



## deanwoof (Mar 10, 2003)

i agree that jack is the most expendable player on the roster. but i'm not sure about webster and outlaw. they are both young, cheap, and go on their scoring flashes every now and then. i still think jack and miles plus 1 or 2 of our 2nd rounders could potentially net us something decent salary cap-wise.

now if only channing frye would show up so we could ship him out for a future first rounder from some foolish team.


----------



## BlazerCaravan (Aug 12, 2004)

Maybe we can trade Frye to the Knicks for a trade exception and a late first round pick.


----------



## hasoos (Jan 3, 2003)

Think about this a little more. Remember how Travis was in his 3rd year? Martel is just in his 3rd year too. Has anybody stopped to think that maybe, they might both turn out to be solid players given the time needed? I have, and it gives me the shivers. That would be flat out sick.


----------



## BlazerCaravan (Aug 12, 2004)

hasoos said:


> Think about this a little more. Remember how Travis was in his 3rd year? Martel is just in his 3rd year too. Has anybody stopped to think that maybe, they might both turn out to be solid players given the time needed? I have, and it gives me the shivers. That would be flat out sick.


Yep. Most of the high schoolers need five years before they start making a major impact. Just ask Jermaine.

I have faith that Martell will come out of this for the better. I'm definitely willing to give him five years, when we have James Jones to tide us over in the meantime.


----------



## ThatBlazerGuy (May 1, 2003)

You maby trade him after the season, but only if the deal significantly upgrades the team(None of this 'Outlaw+Miles for cap space crap like people already do with Jack(although I agree with the Jack+Miles for cap space idea)'. Unless it is something like Outlaw+our mid to lower lotto pick for a pick which can net a potentially great player, I dont see him being dealt. 

He is 23 years old. I will be the first to admit how easy it is to forget how young a guy is who jumped from HS. He was born 9/18/1984. For comparison these players from the 2007 draft are older....

-Al Thornton 12/7/1983
-Alando Tucker 2/11/1984

And these players from the 2006 draft are older....

-Adam Morrison 7/19/1984
-Brandon Roy 7/23/1984
-Randy Foye 9/24/1983
-JJ Reddick 6/24/1984
-Thabo Sefolosha 5/2/1984
-Rodney Carney 4/5/1984
-Quincy Douby 5/16/1984
-Reynaldo Balkman 7/14/1984
-Mo Ager 2/9/1984
-Mardy Collins 8/4/1984

Not to mention numerous players which Outlaw is >4 months younger than. 


Man is it easy to forget how young this kid is.


----------



## Oldmangrouch (Feb 11, 2003)

:lol:

Somebody needs to bump this thread 20 games from now when Travis has regressed back to the norm.

I seriously doubt any team is going to give up meaningful value for either Travis or Webster, so the discussion is kind of a moot point.


----------



## wastro (Dec 19, 2004)

I think my original objection was that it doesn't seem like we're celebrating Travis' arrival as a legitimate NBA player, but rather we see him as a trading chip. It's like coming across a Michael Jordan rookie card and, instead of getting excited and appreciating it, thinking, "I wonder how much I could flip this for on eBay!"

But just to play along, it would be difficult to trade Travis right now, _because_ he's making $4 million/year. Stay with me here!

If KP was to call up another GM and say, "Outlaw is on the table, but we want equal value," well ... how many players are doing what he's doing AND making a comparable amount of money? If he was trading with a team under the cap, then KP might have some options. But since so many teams are either on the border or above the cap, he would have to make the salaries work.


----------



## It's_GO_Time (Oct 13, 2005)

I'm surprised more people aren't jumping on this trade thing given the threads about Travis before this run of good games.

I see where the post is coming from. It would be nice to trade a player when his value is high . . . and I'm guessing Travis' value (whatever that is) is higher now than it has ever been.

I'm not saying I would trade him, because I was never trash talking him or feeling like he should be benched. But even being neutral on him during the rought start, currently, I wonder if he is for real and can take it to the next level mentally (when teams start to focus on him).

But to those who felt Travis would not amount to much, has he turned the corner and become valuable or should you strike while the iron is hot. (Not sure what he is worth, but I'm on the side that you don't even bother looking)


----------



## PapaG (Oct 4, 2004)

Oldmangrouch said:


> :lol:
> 
> *Somebody needs to bump this thread 20 games from now when Travis has regressed back to the norm.*
> 
> I seriously doubt any team is going to give up meaningful value for either Travis or Webster, so the discussion is kind of a moot point.


What norm? Almost 10 ppg as a 23 mpg guy without a rotation spot as he was in 2006-07?

Some people (not me!) were wrong on Outlaw. They need to swallow the bitter pill and accept that he helps a team win games.


----------



## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

wastro said:


> I think my original objection was that it doesn't seem like we're celebrating Travis' arrival as a legitimate NBA player, but rather we see him as a trading chip. It's like coming across a Michael Jordan rookie card and, instead of getting excited and appreciating it, thinking, "I wonder how much I could flip this for on eBay!"
> 
> But just to play along, it would be difficult to trade Travis right now, _because_ he's making $4 million/year. Stay with me here!
> 
> If KP was to call up another GM and say, "Outlaw is on the table, but we want equal value," well ... how many players are doing what he's doing AND making a comparable amount of money? If he was trading with a team under the cap, then KP might have some options. But since so many teams are either on the border or above the cap, he would have to make the salaries work.


He wouldn't have to be traded strait up for another player. He could be moved in part of a larger deal that rid the team of DMiles's contract or one where the value came back in the form of picks. There are good options and obviously we've got the time to discuss them... glad you're open to playing along as I enjoy armchair GMing. 

Trade conversations aside, I like Travis now more then ever. I love it that he seems to be gaining coordination and confidence. As opposed to early on in his career, he seems to know his role and where to be on the court.... he plays within himself, which is a huge step forward. Lost in his recent scoring outbursts is that he's defending (both individually and in team schemes) much better which is something I really value in frontcourt players. Man I wish he was able to drop that one hammer he came down the lane with.

:yay:

STOMP


----------



## BuckW4GM (Nov 2, 2005)

STOMP said:


> Man I wish he was able to drop that one hammer he came down the lane with.
> 
> :yay:
> 
> STOMP


no kidding! that would have been the dunk of the week easy. 

go travis!


----------



## c_note (Jan 30, 2007)

Oldmangrouch said:


> :lol:
> 
> Somebody needs to bump this thread 20 games from now when Travis has regressed back to the norm.
> 
> I seriously doubt any team is going to give up meaningful value for either Travis or Webster, so the discussion is kind of a moot point.


Your name is fitting.


----------



## GOD (Jun 22, 2003)

I've been pro Outlaw for a while but still have been surprised by how well he is playing lately. This year, he has improved in so many areas, and he gets tons of credit for his role on the offense, but it's his D that has wowed me the most. With his length and athleticism, I could see him one day being on the all defensive team if he keeps learning. 

But all players are up for the right trade, but at this moment, I think he is worth more then most teams would be willing to part with. Not only is he turning into a good player, but he does not complain about coming off the bench. If the right trade comes up, then out he goes, but I highly doubt that will happen during this season. Good talent, good character, good value, good health, good age, good work ethic, just plain old good.


----------



## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

Boob-No-More said:


> Maybe we should trade Brandon Roy. He's playing pretty good right now, too and was just recently named Western Conference POW. Obviously, people around the league are noticing and his value is higher than ever. What do you guys think?
> 
> BNM


LOL, Exactly. That's what I was gonna post. Outlaw is playing GREAT and I'm glad he's on our team. I don't want him playing anywhere else.


----------



## Oldmangrouch (Feb 11, 2003)

c_note said:


> Your name is fitting.


For the record: before the season started, I caught all kinds of flack for saying that Travis would be better than Frye, IF he could just be more consistent.

I could sit here, beat my chest, and crow about being a genius. OTOH, I can be honest and admit that a handfull of good games don't prove very much. Consistency is still the issue.


----------



## Zybot (Jul 22, 2004)

I have always been pro Outlaw -- but if the right trade came up I would listen. I don't think the team should be actively trying to trade Outlaw or any Blazer right now. Let's give this team a couple of months and if decisions are made -- fine -- but I think the GM is probably still in the evaluation mode of the team and players. If a deal happens, it would probably happen in the offseason.


----------



## mook (Dec 31, 2002)

STOMP said:


> He wouldn't have to be traded strait up for another player. He could be moved in part of a larger deal that rid the team of DMiles's contract or one where the value came back in the form of picks. There are good options and obviously we've got the time to discuss them... glad you're open to playing along as I enjoy armchair GMing.


it's hard to know what's more exciting--his play or his contract. even if he just levels off at his current play, he's a fantastic bargain. if down the road it looks like we just need a different piece than Outlaw to push a Roy/Aldridge/Oden team into title contention, it's going to be very, very easy to trade him. 

and it may be that he fits in perfectly. Roy, Aldridge, Oden, Outlaw. that is an insane amount of athleticism. 

btw--I loved his interview after the game. I'd just watched 30 Rock and I could've sworn I was listening to a black, 6-8, bald Kenneth. abso-freakin' hilarious.


----------



## moldorf (Jun 29, 2007)

Right now, Travis is BYC1 in contract status, meaning he only has 2 million in trade 'value'. Now isn't the time to do it.

If it was to happen, this summer would be better after the BYC status expires. That would also give portland more time to evaluate if travis is actually a 'keeper' long term for portland.

It may be the case that it will be difficult for portland to keep all three of outlaw, webster, and jones on the team. They will compete for minutes with each other and have a certain amount of redundency. Outlaw's contract doesn't really interfere with portland's short or long term plans. Jones's contract doesn't really either, although portland needs to decide if he's worth keeping. I think his ability to stretch the defense will fit really well with the twin towers of oden and Aldridge.

The player whose contract is more problematic...especially for the cap space plan is Webster. He's more likely to be traded then either outlaw or jones in my view, although portland may still try to extend his contract next summer.


----------



## MARIS61 (Apr 28, 2003)

Travis, Bob Whitsitt's sole remaining player selection on the team, is by far the best athlete to ever play on the team. He is capable of physical feats no Blazer has done before.

He is also the most clean-cut, honest and humble role model any Morally-Upright fan could wish or hope for. From his early days in Mayberry as a classmate and fishing pal of Opie Taylor, to his current unparalleled celebrity via glitzy ESPN highlight reel dunks, Travis's off-court record is unblemished.

Travis is the future of the franchise, the saviour of our city, the player we have built this team around. With Roy, Aldridge, Rodriguez and Oden riding his coattails to a title, Travis is here to stay.

Thanks Bob.


----------



## Yega1979 (Mar 22, 2003)

Travis can have a long term spot on our roster as the backup PF. Channing Frye...ugh, we just need to bench him and let his contract expire. Or include him in a deal to get Miles out of town for an expiring contract.

I used to really hate Jarrett "The fastbreak general" Jack, but now I appreciate him more, because he is really aggressive and gets to the rim. He's a good fit off the bench with our "white team". I wouldn't deal him off yet before we know how good Rudy F will be.


----------



## ThatBlazerGuy (May 1, 2003)

> Travis, Bob Whitsitt's sole remaining player selection on the team, is by far the best athlete to ever play on the team. He is capable of physical feats no Blazer has done before.


Ever heard of Clyde Drexler? That guy was as athletic in his time as anyone outside of Air Jordan.


----------



## wastro (Dec 19, 2004)

I don't see Portland trading Outlaw after this season. KP has constantly referred to this as a two-year experiment. He's also said that he wants to judge players over years, not days or weeks. So just because Outlaw's been hot doesn't mean he's going to sustain this production over the long haul. But if he does, hoo boy that rocks.

Anyway, I think the Blazers hold a team option on Outlaw's third year, for what it's worth. The deal gets even more impressive when you think about that.


----------



## Baracuda (Jan 10, 2007)

Yega1979 said:


> Travis can have a long term spot on our roster as the backup PF. Channing Frye...ugh, we just need to bench him and let his contract expire. Or include him in a deal to get Miles out of town for an expiring contract.
> 
> I used to really hate Jarrett "The fastbreak general" Jack, but now I appreciate him more, because he is really aggressive and gets to the rim. He's a good fit off the bench with our "white team". I wouldn't deal him off yet before we know how good Rudy F will be.


Using Travis to dump Miles contract is way too steep a price just to gain cap space in a few years. In two years time Travis could become better than any player the team could add with that cap space. With Rudy on the way,I'd dump Jack or Webster to get some cap space, but not Travis.

Perhaps Travis could be used as a centerpiece of a trade for a star player that is about to walk away from his team for nothing? Lebron? Chris Paul?

Trout is a keeper!


----------



## BBert (Dec 30, 2004)

MARIS61 said:


> Travis, Bob Whitsitt's sole remaining player selection on the team, is by far the best athlete to ever play on the team. He is capable of physical feats no Blazer has done before.
> 
> He is also the most clean-cut, honest and humble role model any Morally-Upright fan could wish or hope for. From his early days in Mayberry as a classmate and fishing pal of Opie Taylor, to his current unparalleled celebrity via glitzy ESPN highlight reel dunks, Travis's off-court record is unblemished.
> 
> ...


That's a great post! Made me laugh. :biggrin: Love the hyperbole. 

GO TRAVIS!! :yay:


----------



## Baracuda (Jan 10, 2007)

BBert said:


> That's a great post! Made me laugh. :biggrin: Love the hyperbole.
> 
> GO TRAVIS!! :yay:


btw Who's playing in the hyperbole anyway?


----------



## BBert (Dec 30, 2004)

Oldmangrouch said:


> :lol:
> 
> Somebody needs to bump this thread 20 games from now when Travis has regressed back to the norm.
> 
> I seriously doubt any team is going to give up meaningful value for either Travis or Webster, so the discussion is kind of a moot point.


I guess I value both Travis and Webster a lot more than you do. Too bad my opinion on the matter, plus 2 pesos, leaves me with little more than my opinion. :biggrin:

I've been defending Travis for a long, long time. I was growing very weary from it, especially the part about how young he is, and that he is clearly a "late bloomer," and a bit slow on the uptake, on top of it all. This is the year I finally put expectations on him to show what kind of NBA player he will be. I'm not the least bit surprised by his play, but a little shocked he's finally arrived, if you know what I mean. Mostly I'm just really happy. :yay: Sure he may regress some or hit a slump, but I believe what we are seeing is the real Travis. And that his overall game will continue to improve.

What a bargain this guy is! Maris' little parable that Travis is "the player" we've rebuilt this franchise around is not that far from the truth. 

He may have been a Whitsitt selection, much to the chagrin of PatterNash, but I think Travis is a Pritchard player.

:cheers:


----------



## darkhelmit54 (Jan 23, 2005)

Baracuda said:


> Perhaps Travis could be used as a centerpiece of a trade for a star player that is about to walk away from his team for nothing? Lebron? Chris Paul?
> 
> Trout is a keeper!


That's why I posted this thread. It wasn't a "dump travis" kind of prerogative at all, it was more of what we could get for him you know? I doubt Lebron, Melo, Wade, or Paul but I bet Travis, Jack, and the pick (which we don't need at this point with Travis playing the way he is, Rudy and Oden coming aboard next season) could get us something potentially great. What do you guys think it could get us? Who would you want? That's all I'm asking. If not, some people need to get traded bottom line, how do you decide? Do you trade Rudy and Sergio to not mess up a good thing we have going (my last choice), do you trade Jack and Webster? Do you trade Jones to a contendor who needs a sharp-shooting vet and dump miles contract (heat)? Or do you trade Travis while his value is through the roof, we will need to consolidate at some point. Teasm are best with some in prime, some developing, some solid bench guys, and some scrubs who know they're scrubs but can do 1 task well (shooting, rebounding, blocking, whatever) we can't develop our whole team and add talent every year.

The question again, what could Outlaw, Jack, and the pick get us...use your imagination.


----------



## PapaG (Oct 4, 2004)

Outlaw's contract makes trading him now a very bad idea. There is simply no way to get equal value for him. 

He is the second most important player on the team with LMA out.


----------



## andalusian (Jun 29, 2006)

No one is going to give you a superstar for a package where Outlaw is the best player going out - so it makes no sense to trade him unless you ship him with Roy, LaMarcus or Oden. Since Portland is not going to ship these, this is a nonsense question. Simple. 

Outlaw is an amazing value with his current contract, he is a good fit for this team, he is a good locker room player and he is an young, elite athlete with good offensive game and room to improve.

Webster, IMHO, is much more likely to be shipped out for something KP really wants, especially since Jones provides what Webster brings to the table with better consistency.


----------



## darkhelmit54 (Jan 23, 2005)

andalusian said:


> No one is going to give you a superstar for a package where Outlaw is the best player going out - so it makes no sense to trade him unless you ship him with Roy, LaMarcus or Oden. Since Portland is not going to ship these, this is a nonsense question. Simple.


Garnett, Iverson, Carter, Allen, a lot of players have been traded w/o anything too great coming back. Al Jefferson is better than travis because he's a big guy, but a big player could come back with travis as the centerpiece in this league, plus many teams are scared by the big contracts they've commited. I'm not saying we need Iverson, Carter, or Garnett, or that that's realistic, but who's the next big name to be traded and for what?



andalusian said:


> Outlaw is an amazing value with his current contract, he is a good fit for this team, he is a good locker room player and he is an young, elite athlete with good offensive game and room to improve.


Which is why other teams may really really like him. That contract they might love, Travis might not hate the idea of getting back east and closer to home too. (he said that last summer during contract stuff) [/QUOTE]



andalusian said:


> Webster, IMHO, is much more likely to be shipped out for something KP really wants, especially since Jones provides what Webster brings to the table with better consistency.


However, Martell is younger than Travis, is more consistent than Travis was last year, and has an absolutely gorgeous stroke. Are you one of the people who claims they were always patient with Travis? If so you're being hypocritical here. Martell is incredibly athletic in the open court, we never get to see it because nate is the coach and blake and jack are PG's but he could be a huge asset, and Jones expires at the end of this year if he wants, which could be a large contract demand too (Kopono this summer after 1 good year). Martell is home-grown, just as cheap, younger, and more athletic. Martell's ceiling is Glen Rice (look at the stats).


----------



## andalusian (Jun 29, 2006)

darkhelmit54 said:


> Garnett, Iverson, Carter, Allen, a lot of players have been traded w/o anything too great coming back. Al Jefferson is better than travis because he's a big guy, but a big player could come back with travis as the centerpiece in this league, plus many teams are scared by the big contracts they've commited. I'm not saying we need Iverson, Carter, or Garnett, or that that's realistic, but who's the next big name to be traded and for what?


This team has no need for Allen, Carter or AI and Garnett was traded for Big Al that you yourself think is better than Outlaw.



darkhelmit54 said:


> Which is why other teams may really really like him. That contract they might love, Travis might not hate the idea of getting back east and closer to home too. (he said that last summer during contract stuff)


And this is also why Portland should not move him. Teams move superstars when they need to rebuild and they try to keep all the great contracts. With his great value for price, moving Travis is a big mistake.



darkhelmit54 said:


> However, Martell is younger than Travis, is more consistent than Travis was last year, and has an absolutely gorgeous stroke. Are you one of the people who claims they were always patient with Travis? If so you're being hypocritical here. Martell is incredibly athletic in the open court, we never get to see it because nate is the coach and blake and jack are PG's but he could be a huge asset, and Jones expires at the end of this year if he wants, which could be a large contract demand too (Kopono this summer after 1 good year). Martell is home-grown, just as cheap, younger, and more athletic. Martell's ceiling is Glen Rice (look at the stats).


Martell is a good prospect, but Travis's gift is much rarer than Webster's - he can create a shot for himself and is practically un-guardable. Was I always patient with Travis? I do not know.. I guess I never had such a high/low issue with Travis - as the 22nd (or so pick) I did not have much expectations from him - but I was absolutely impressed with the way he finished last year and proclaimed that if he put the ball to the floor and attacked the rim - he will be fantastic (I can probably try to search the forum archives to prove it, but I am too lazy to do that). It seems that this is exactly the case right now.

Am I pleased with Webster's progress this year? You bet. Is it going to be easier to replace than Travis? You bet. Outlaw has a gift of freak athletic ability, agility and reliable mid-range jumper. Martell is not garbage - but we have no idea if we can extend him as cheaply as we did Travis, and I suspect that it is a lot harder, in the NBA, to develop the ability to create one's own shot than it is to develop accurate long ball shooting. With this in mind, I am guessing that it would be easier to get Travis to be an accurate long ball bomber than for Martell to be able to create his own shot with the ease that Travis does.

So, in the end of the day, unless someone is willing to give an absolute stud that fits with the age, culture and direction of this team for Travis (I would give you less than 2% of this happening) - KP will know that he got a steal on Travis and will not ship him out.


----------



## darkhelmit54 (Jan 23, 2005)

dude you are so right, and I can't figure out why it didn't occur to me earlier. We should only trade bad players on bad contracts for good players on good contracts. It all makes so much damn sense. Now how can we get the other GM's to help us out with this? WHO WANTS DARIUS?


----------



## yuyuza1 (May 24, 2006)

Travis is showing that he can be an integral part to this team both now and in the future. However, I would definitely use him as a trading piece to move up in the draft for Rose/Mayo/Gordon.


----------



## darkhelmit54 (Jan 23, 2005)

THE award for first decent, honest, objective, unemotional post of the day goes to yuyuza1 !!!


----------



## Resume (Jul 17, 2007)

We gotta leave our team how it is now and not trade anyone. Maybe trade Jack and the pick for a higher pick, but we can't do that till we figure out the pick order.

So I say we shouldn't trade anyone. Especially with how good our chemistry is right now.


----------



## Hector (Nov 15, 2004)

When McMillan coached the Sonics in this same hot shooting style, Brent Barry looked like a great shooter. When he went to the Spurs, it took him years to blend into that system. Outlaw and Jones may be hot shooters in McMillan's system, but that doesn't necessarily transfer to if they play for a different coach.


----------



## BlayZa (Dec 31, 2002)

BlazerCaravan said:


> Outlaw has legs... this thread is like falling to the bottom of a well.


4 pages in , its got legs... im tellin ya


----------



## ThatBlazerGuy (May 1, 2003)

I dont see any sort of logjam at SF so I dont think we need to trade any of our contributers. This rotation should be set for years...

SG- Brandon Roy/Rudy Fernandez/James Jones
SF- Martell Webster/James Jones/Travis Outlaw
PF- LaMarcus Aldridge/Travis Outlaw/???Blue Collar Rebounder???

That leaves out Jarrett Jack, who I still dont see as a future contributer on this team. I would have no problem trading Jack/Frye/2008 1st to move up 2-5 spots in the draft depending on who is avaliable.


----------



## BBert (Dec 30, 2004)

yuyuza1 said:


> Travis is showing that he can be an integral part to this team both now and in the future. However, I would definitely use him as a trading piece to move up in the draft for Rose/Mayo/Gordon.


I was skimming through the thread getting ready to post that, then, BAM, there it was! Because of his small contract, and our still glaring need for an elite PG, he may be useful in moving up in the lottery to get said elite PG, if Pritchard thinks there is one available that is worth giving up Travis. We'll see how it shakes out in 6 months or so.


----------



## mook (Dec 31, 2002)

ok, this could make me the most hated poster on this board, but I'll come out and say it: 

Kobe Bryant. 

why the Lakers do it:
are the Lakers going to get a better package for a complete rebuild than Outlaw, Jack, our coming pick, Miles and filler? it's probably better than what Seattle got for Ray Allen, and Allen didn't have a no-trade clause like Kobe does. it's also more than they got for Shaq. they'd be going into full "tank" mode. 

why Kobe does it: 
you think Kobe might crap his pants to play with Oden, Aldridge and Roy? he's already said he doesn't want to go to a team that will be decimated after trading for him. 

why Portland does it: 
Kobe Bryant is the fiercest competitor on the planet. he's also maybe the best basketball player on the planet. he's proven he knows how to play with a dominant big man. and he's got more NBA finals experience than anybody this side of Shaq. 

I'll admit it's pretty unlikely. the Lakers have actually been playing pretty well this season, and a large number of Blazer fans would riot in the streets if we traded Mr. Sherrif's Son from the Sticks for one of the most hated athletes in all of pro sports. 

but it is fun to think about an insanely good lineup of Brand Roy, Kobe Bryant, James Jones, LaMarcus Aldridge and Greg Oden. that squad could give our Olympic team a run for its money in a few years.


----------



## BBert (Dec 30, 2004)

mook, as much as I hate Kome, and I hate him a lot, that lineup, with the other players we'd have left (Martell, Sergio, Joel, et al), would rule the planet. That's all I'm gonna say.


----------



## Draco (Jun 28, 2003)

It is kind of interesting in that when our own players start to play a bit better, as first Martell and now Outlaw have done this year, it then increases the value of said players to our team while also increasing the trade value to other teams.

When making a trade it all comes down to "does it improve the team?" Outlaw has had his best stretch ever as a professional, that doesn't mean we should necessarily look to trade him, but it doesn't mean we should avoid discussion of moving him either.

If we can put together some sort of package of Outlaw plus other assets to acquire Andre Miller, Kirk Hinrick, Ben Gordon (who would pair great with Roy), or a high draft pick than I'm all for it. I think one of those trades would greatly improve our team. If nothing is available that makes our team better, than I'll be happy rooting for who we got.


----------



## darkhelmit54 (Jan 23, 2005)

here are a couple of far fetched things I came up with in a couple of minutes...

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=2386~557~1823~933~2423~2768~2009~550~2015~1718~2772~739&teams=22~18~22~20~18~14~14~14~20~22~20~22&te=&cash=
way too big to happen but it was fun making and I like the look of it... we'd throw in our draft pick to new york.
we trade: Outlaw, Jones, Jack, Miles, pick
take back: Iguodala (make fun of me all you want), Fred Jones

this year:
Blake/Sergio
Roy/Jones
Iguodala/Webster
Aldridge/Frye
Pryzbilla/Raef

next year:
Roy/Sergio
Iguodala/Fernandez
Webster/(Roy, Iggy)
Aldridge/Mcroberts/Frye
Oden/Pryzbilla

Another fun one...
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=2768~2009~2015~2429~2377&teams=4~4~4~22~22&te=&cash=

We trade: Jack, Outlaw, Jones
We get: Deng, Duhon

Chicago gets a kick for the playoffs they need terribly, don't have to deal with contract negotiations for Deng, Deng is a very valued player with tons of potential and a good passer.

Hinrich/Jack
Gordon/Thabo
Jones/Outlaw
Smith/Thomas
Wallace/Noah/Gray

This thread should be fun, who could we go after, what would make sense for us (and other teams)?


----------



## MAS RipCity (Feb 22, 2003)

i think we need to keep this team together, outside of maybe a channing or jack deal..like Duck said last night, they just need to keep this team together for a while and let them gel and it will be Drexler Days all over again!


----------



## ProZach (Oct 13, 2005)

BBert said:


> I was skimming through the thread getting ready to post that, then, BAM, there it was! Because of his small contract, and our still glaring need for an elite PG, he may be useful in moving up in the lottery to get said elite PG, if Pritchard thinks there is one available that is worth giving up Travis. We'll see how it shakes out in 6 months or so.


I'm not saying Travis is suddenly our savior and I'm not saying don't trade him at all costs, but I don't understand the way some of you think. When a guy plays poorly, he gets insulted and hated. When he plays well, he should be traded for someone else. When a guy, who is still very young, finally starts to fulfill some of his potential, we should suddenly get rid of him for another rookie prospect... What are we, just developing players for other teams? As soon as they get good enough, ship them off for another unproven guy? When does it end? 

Roy is our elite PG of the future, if worse comes to worse. He needs to control the ball a lot anyways to be most effective. But we don't need a superstar at every position. Nobody has that. We need a _team_ of guys who know their roles and do them well. Travis never complains, is a good teammate, and really makes our bench solid. Look at our team, we have the most young talent in the league. We're the youngest team in the league and your wishlist is comprised of more incoming rookies... I'm tired of this tinker tinker tinker mentality. Maybe time, not change, is what's most important.


----------



## darkhelmit54 (Jan 23, 2005)

not sure if I would do this as a Blazer fan, or if Chicago would like it at all, but what do you guys think of...

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=2429~885~2768~550~2015~682&teams=22~22~4~4~4~4&te=&cash=

Jack, Outlaw, Miles, Pryzbilla for Wallace, Deng

Chicago gets a little more firepower you might say, and Deng and them aren't exactly in love with each other right now, and the fans of chicago are about ready to assasinate Wallace. They had interest in Joel before.

sentimentally I hate the thought of getting rid of pryz, and I really don't like wallace too much, but if Deng returned to his old self and Wallace could give us 20 minutes of Big Ben from Detroit a night it wouldn't be a bad deal assuming Roy moved over to PG.

Roy/Sergio
Webster/Fernandez
Deng/Jones
Aldridge/Mcroberts/Frye/Freeland
Oden/Wallace


----------



## MAS RipCity (Feb 22, 2003)

JMO, but I think Luol is grossly overrated, and Joel is much more effective than Big Ben is right now...nope.


----------



## PapaG (Oct 4, 2004)

ProZach said:


> When a guy, who is still very young, finally starts to fulfill some of his potential, we should suddenly get rid of him for another rookie prospect... What are we, just developing players for other teams? As soon as they get good enough, ship them off for another unproven guy? When does it end?


This is known as the Clipper model of franchise management, or at least it was for most of the '80s, '90s, and early '00s.

I just don't see what is wrong with keeping Outlaw on the team. He has the rare ability to get off a shot any time he wants. If he shoots 46% and gets to the line 4-6 times a game, he is an incredible asset off of the bench.


----------



## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

MARIS61 said:


> Travis, Bob Whitsitt's sole remaining player selection on the team, is by far the best athlete to ever play on the team. He is capable of physical feats no Blazer has done before.


Billy Ray Bates ring a bell? Or Clyde Drexler? 

On another note, maybe this is the year TO gets into the dunk contest

STOMP


----------



## BBert (Dec 30, 2004)

ProZach said:


> I'm not saying Travis is suddenly our savior and I'm not saying don't trade him at all costs, but I don't understand the way some of you think. When a guy plays poorly, he gets insulted and hated. When he plays well, he should be traded for someone else. When a guy, who is still very young, finally starts to fulfill some of his potential, we should suddenly get rid of him for another rookie prospect... What are we, just developing players for other teams? As soon as they get good enough, ship them off for another unproven guy? When does it end?


Well, I for one have NEVER ragged on Travis. And I don't want to trade him. I'd love for him to be an integral part of our future. I believe we absolutely need a guy who can do the things he can, and I've been saying so for years. However, if Pritchard decides that trading Travis for an elite PG will improve the team overall, I'll be sad to see him go, I'll root for him forever, but that's the way the game is played. Hopefully, we already have an elite point guard in our pipeline (El Mago/Playboy Pete), or we can get one other ways, so Travis can stay in Portland and get 9 rings with the Blazers! :biggrin:


----------



## ProZach (Oct 13, 2005)

BBert said:


> Well, I for one have NEVER ragged on Travis. And I don't want to trade him. I'd love for him to be an integral part of our future. I believe we absolutely need a guy who can do the things he can, and I've been saying so for years. However, if Pritchard decides that trading Travis for an elite PG will improve the team overall, I'll be sad to see him go, I'll root for him forever, but that's the way the game is played. Hopefully, we already have an elite point guard in our pipeline (El Mago/Playboy Pete), or we can get one other ways, so Travis can stay in Portland and get 9 rings with the Blazers! :biggrin:



I didn't mean for it to sound like you were the one ragging on Travis, and for the most part I guess I agree with you. But I'm actually under the opinion that _the need_ for an elite PG in order to be a contender is overrated. Michael Jordan never had an elite PG. The Houston Rockets didn't have an elite PG in the mid 90's. Kenny Smith was good, but not elite. And I don't think the Lakers have had an elite PG this century either, not to mention Miami last year. What they all had were playmakers who could create for themselves and others, and leaders.


----------



## PapaG (Oct 4, 2004)

ProZach said:


> I didn't mean for it to sound like you were the one ragging on Travis, and for the most part I guess I agree with you. But I'm actually under the opinion that _the need_ for an elite PG in order to be a contender is overrated. Michael Jordan never had an elite PG. The Houston Rockets didn't have an elite PG in the mid 90's. Kenny Smith was good, but not elite. And I don't think the Lakers have had an elite PG this century either, not to mention Miami last year. What they all had were playmakers who could create for themselves and others, and leaders.


I am trying to think of top-tier statistical PGs who have led teams to titles.

Tony Parker did last year, yet he still has Duncan. There is no denying, however, that Parker is a top-tier PG.

Magic of course, but that was years ago.

Stockton? Nope

Nash? Nope

After those, I am at a loss as to why a franchise statistical PG is necessary.


----------



## BBert (Dec 30, 2004)

ProZach said:


> I didn't mean for it to sound like you were the one ragging on Travis, and for the most part I guess I agree with you. But I'm actually under the opinion that _the need_ for an elite PG in order to be a contender is overrated. Michael Jordan never had an elite PG. The Houston Rockets didn't have an elite PG in the mid 90's. Kenny Smith was good, but not elite. And I don't think the Lakers have had an elite PG this century either, not to mention Miami last year. What they all had were playmakers who could create for themselves and others, and leaders.


You make a good point. We will have the twin towers, Oden and Aldridge, who will be feared throughout the land. We will have Roy, the second coming of 'the logo.' :biggrin: We will have at a minimum a solid point guard to assist them, and possibly two or three deadly outside shooters (Webster, Jones, Rudy). And Travis, our own microwave, human highlight real, and defensive dynamo. :biggrin: Add in a tough backup Center like Joel, the Magic of Sergio, and any decent backup PF and I'm thinking dynasty. :biggrin: Of course, I'm very greedy too, and dream of a star at every position. But as you say, history shows it isn't needed. Two or three stars and the right supporting cast should do it.

:cheers:


----------



## Xericx (Oct 29, 2004)

STOMP said:


> Billy Ray Bates ring a bell? Or Clyde Drexler?
> 
> On another note, maybe this is the year TO gets into the dunk contest
> 
> STOMP


I believe he is ineligable for the Dunk Contest as it only has players that have been in the league X amount of years. not sure but I think that's how it works. 

We would be stupid as hell to trade Outlaw. He has a GOOD contract and he will provide a spark off the bench....he may be in the running for 6th man AND MIP if he keeps this up.


----------



## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

Xericx said:


> I believe he is ineligable for the Dunk Contest as it only has players that have been in the league X amount of years. not sure but I think that's how it works.


the last 3 Slam Dunk champs came into the league after Travis did so...



> We would be stupid as hell to trade Outlaw. He has a GOOD contract and he will provide a spark off the bench....he may be in the running for 6th man AND MIP if he keeps this up.


again it depends on what he's being traded for. All the things that you said about him are true, but that only means that there is a market for his services. What is stupid as hell is shouting down our harmless trade banter as thats one of the main staples of conversation here.

STOMP


----------



## crowTrobot (Jun 24, 2005)

i'm just shaking my head that someone would suggest trading outlaw for andre miller. ouch. there's a reason philly is trying to dump him you know.

also i don't think any of the top PG's in this draft necessarily have any more proven potential than sergio, and i don't think any bigs in the draft necessarily have more impact potential than outlaw has shown. in other words i think some here are underestimating just how special what outlaw has done is compared to the value of the upside of anyone in the draft. trading him to move up in the draft for an unproven player would be -EV (in poker terms).


----------



## Xericx (Oct 29, 2004)

STOMP said:


> the last 3 Slam Dunk champs came into the league after Travis did so...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I believe players in the league 3 years or less are eligablie for the dunk contest. 

What are your trade proposals for Outlaw? As of late, he has been a very valuable asset for this team....if someone is extremely useful then why would we trade him? Do you trade a potential 6th man of the year?


----------



## ehizzy3 (Jun 12, 2006)

Xericx said:


> I believe players in the league 3 years or less are eligablie for the dunk contest.
> 
> What are your trade proposals for Outlaw? As of late, he has been a very valuable asset for this team....if someone is extremely useful then why would we trade him? Do you trade a potential 6th man of the year?


i think its 4..im not postivie, i would like to see martell in it tho


----------



## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

ehizzy3 said:


> i think its 4..im not postivie, i would like to see martell in it tho


I've never heard of any restriction of amount of years in the league and have bumped around google with a few searches. I also recall the hype two years back trying to get Kobe and LaBron to go head to head, and KB was well past his 4th season.

STOMP


----------



## ehizzy3 (Jun 12, 2006)

STOMP said:


> I've never heard of any restriction of amount of years in the league and have bumped around google with a few searches. I also recall the hype two years back trying to get Kobe and LaBron to go head to head, and KB was well past his 4th season.
> 
> STOMP


its either 3 or 4 years, hence the name of the contest, Sprite Rising Stars


----------



## Xericx (Oct 29, 2004)

Yeah, NBA did it as a marketing move to highlight some younger players. 

It was recent...maybe in the last 5 years but they don't talk about it.


----------

