# Starting lineups???



## Red_Bandit (Apr 20, 2003)

Can someone tell me what the starting lineups and first player off the bench will be for the following teams??

AEK
Adecco Asvel
Alba Berlin
Barcelona
Benetton
Buducnost
Cibona
CSKA
Efes Pilson
FMP Zeleznik
Idea Slask
KRKA
Lietuvos Rytas 
Maccabi
Montepaschi
Olympiakos
Opel Skylyners 
Pamesa Valencia
Panathinaikos
Partizan
Pau-Orthez
Real Madrid
Skipper
Tau Ceramica
Telekom Basket Bonn
Virtus Bologna
Ulker
Unicaja
Uniks Kazan 
Union Olimpija
Ural Great 
Zalgiris

For those that dont know, there is a patch for NBA Live 2003 (pc only) where you can use all the teams from last years euroleague plus some ULEB Cup teams and others (past/present allstars). Im trying to update my linueps and have done a good job so far creating new players but the starting lineups i dont think are accurate. any help would be nice, maybe if i can get a complete roster update i can upload the lineups so that it can be downloaded.

http://eurobasket.cjb.net/ u can get the patch there

thanks


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## brazys (Jul 17, 2002)

*Lithuanian teams:*

Zalgiris:

PG: Ed Cota
SG: Mindaugas Timinskas
SF: Saulius Stombergas (he is free agent still, but he is choosing among Zalgiris, Lietuvos Rytas and Uniks; Zalgiris themselves are negotiating with some "top level SG from former Yugoslavia"; stay tuned for this one)
PF: Tanoka Beard
C: ARVYDAS SABONIS
6th man: Dainius Salenga and Darius Lavrinovic (who will be out for half of the season, but still is good player - 18ppg 9rb and 2bl in 3rd place team Alita last year)

Lietuvos rytas:
PG: Aaron Lucas
SG: Andrius Giedraitis (although he is out indefinitely with an lymphatic nodes illness)
SF: Ramunas Siskauskas
PF: Dickey Simpkins
C: Robertas Javtokas
6th man: Simas Jasaitis (young promising SG-SF with good shot), Tomas Delininkaitis (young promising PG with good shot ).


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## Gousgounis (Jul 24, 2003)

AEK
PG Horace Jenkins
Sg Nikos Zisis
SF Christos Tapoutos
PF Quadre Lollis
C Andreas Glyniadakis

First players off the bench
SG Nikos Hatzis
PF Pero Antic

Olympiakos

PG Branko Milisaljevic
SG Giorgios Diamantopoulos
SF Boris Gorenc
PG Goran Jurak
C Dalibor Bagaric

First players off the bench
Milan Tomic PG/SG
Panayotis Liadellis SG

Panathinaikos

PG Jaka Lakovic
SG Nikos Hatzivrettas
SF Dimitris Papanikolaou
PF Mike Batiste
C Darryl Middleton

First players off the bench
Fragiskos Alvertis SF
Kenyon Jones C
Ariel McDonald PG


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## Crazy Fan From Idaho (Dec 31, 2002)

*Re: Lithuanian teams:*



> Originally posted by <b>brazys</b>!
> Zalgiris:
> 
> C: ARVYDAS SABONIS


I love the sound of that!!!! :yes: 

Do you really think he will start most games????? I figured that he would start some, but maybe not most of the games....maybe particularly not the LKL games. But on the other hand, maybe he will start those and only play a few minutes and then sit for the rest of the game. 

Of course I hope he starts and plays 40 min every game, but I occasionally have been accused of being a bit unrealistic when it comes to Sabonis....


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## J-Will2 (Aug 1, 2003)

Union Olimpija:

Rahimic (C)
Boisa (or Tucker, if they take him, they have equal chances- he is on trial) PF
Maravic SF
Bazdaric SG
Stelmahers PG

That was the best and starting team at the ZT cup in Ljubljana, and they have destroyed Tofas 29-14 in the first quarter.
Other players at Olimpija:
Petrov PG-SG
Ozbolt PG-SG
Pavic C
S.Zagorac PF-C
Hrovat SG-SF
Smigic PG
Mali SG

I don't know who the first players off the bench are gonna be- in case they take Tucker, it's gonna be either Tucker or Boisa plus Petrov and Ozbolt.


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## Hrvoje (Jun 28, 2003)

Cibona Vip:

PG - Scoonie Penn
SG - Slaven Rimac
SF - Matej Mamic (or Josip Sesar if he signs)
PF - Andrija Zizic
C - Josko Poljak

top players off the bench: Jurica Golemac, Barisa Krasic and Davor Kus

potential surprises: Damir Omerhodzic


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## Hrvoje (Jun 28, 2003)

> Zalgiris themselves are negotiating with some "top level SG from former Yugoslavia"; stay tuned for this one)


Could it be Josip Sesar?


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## european (Jun 8, 2002)

Pamesa Valencia.

PG:Marko Popovic
SG:Antoine Rigadeau
SF:Federico Kammerichs
PF:Fabrizio Oberto
C: Dejan Tomasevic
Top Bench Players: Dikoudis,Abbio,Montecchia,Paraiso

Unicaja Malaga.
PG:Louis Bullock
SG:Moush Sonko
SF:Walter Herrman
PF:Victor Alexander
C:Chuck Kornegay
Top Bench Players:Cabezas,Weiss,Risacher

Barcelona
PG:Vlado Illievski
SG: De la Fuente
SF: Dejan Bodiroga
PF:Gregor F.ucka
C:Roberto Dueñas
Top Bench Players:Navarro,Varejao,Grimau

Tau Baskonia:
PG:Calderon
SG:Macijaukas
SF:Nocioni
PF:Scola
C:Betts
Top Bench Players:Kornel David,Priggioni


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## Zalgirinis (Feb 18, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hrvoje</b>!
> 
> 
> Could it be Josip Sesar?


Well, he fits to the decription "good player from former Yugoslavia" and was rumoured along with Scepanovic to be one of candidates 3 weeks ago, but it seems those 2 names were fake (people just thought of ex-yugos who has no contract). 

Sani Becirovic was real candidate, but he moved to Efes for try-out.


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## gantelo (May 19, 2003)

EFES PILSEN:
PG: TUNCERÝ
SG:LANGDON
SF:GRANGER
PF:KAYA PEKER
CRKACIN
Ender Arslan, Omer Onan and Asým Pars

ULKER:
PG:BOOKER
SG: KUTLUAY
SF: HALUK YILDIRIM
PF: RENTZIAS
C: BLAIR
Tutku Acýk, Kerem Gonlum


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## SEOK (Apr 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Zalgirinis</b>!
> Sani Becirovic was real candidate, but he moved to Efes for try-out.


There are things that are really unbelievable in basketball. For example, the fact the players like Mirsad Yehovic, Dejan Tomasevic and Carlton Myers find always a big contract with a big team, despite the fact they won't be able to help the team to win something... 
Another fact is that no-one has still understood that Becirovic is a former basketball player, he will never recover and his destiny is the same of Oded Katash: if Efes will sign him, congratulations to Maurizio Balducci (agent of Becirovic). He will cheat another basketball club...


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## Genjuro (Jul 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>SEOK</b>!
> 
> 
> There are things that are really unbelievable in basketball. For example, the fact the players like Mirsad Yehovic, Dejan Tomasevic and Carlton Myers find always a big contract with a big team, despite the fact they won't be able to help the team to win something...


What are you talking about? Tomasevic made TAU Vitoria ACB champions for the first time in their history. He also got the Spanish Cup being the MVP. That was during the 2001/02 season. Last year he helped Pamesa Valencia to reach the ACB finals (again for the first time in their history) against the allmighty F.C.Barcelona, and to win the ULEB Cup. Tomasevic is a top noch player in Europe, and he deserves every cent he earns.


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## SEOK (Apr 3, 2003)

I'm talking about Dejan Tomasevic, an excellent-technical player, without hearth and balls. He's perfect for a championship like the ACB, the best league in Europe (players, money, technical level) but very soft too: I don't think that any team from Spain would have been level to win the Italian or Greek championship in last decade, maybe only the aggressive Tau Vitoria of Ivanovic. 
And Tomasevic has never been so important with the NT of Serbia&Montenegro - Yugoslavia too...


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## Chef (Nov 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>SEOK</b>!
> I don't think that any team from Spain would have been level to win the Italian or Greek championship in last decade, maybe only the aggressive Tau Vitoria of Ivanovic.


:laugh:


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## Ingrida (Sep 16, 2003)

Rytas

C: R. Javtokas, Ciukinas, Kuzminskas
PF: Simpkins
SF: Siskauskas, Jasaitis, Lukauskis, Babrauskas
SG: Giedraitis
PG: Lucas, Delininkaitis

It is reported today, that Stombergas signed with Unics (Kazan).
Then 

Unics:
C: E. Zukauskas
F: Stombergas, Mursepp
G: Koubrakov, Samoilenko, Miloserdov

As Russian sport-express writes, CSKA has almost completed the forming of their team:
C: Tarlac, Bashminov, Savrasenko
PF: Turkcan, Panov
SF: Chriapa, Monia
SG: Brown, Judin
PG: Holden, Papaloukas, Vialcev

Ural-Great
C: K. Lavrinovic, Johns
PF: Avleev, Daineko
SF: Nadfej
SG: Z. Pashutin, Chikalkin, Vaikulis
PG: Johns, Poltavskij, Belov


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## Genjuro (Jul 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>SEOK</b>!
> I don't think that any team from Spain would have been level to win the Italian or Greek championship in last decade, maybe only the aggressive Tau Vitoria of Ivanovic.


What about Sabonis's Real Madrid or Gasol's F.C.Barcelona?


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## SEOK (Apr 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Genjuro</b>!
> 
> What about Sabonis's Real Madrid or Gasol's F.C.Barcelona?


Gasol's FC Barcelona has not been so brilliant, and couldn't pass the first round of the EL playoffs 2001 (vs Benetton Treviso). Ok, Gasol was out (appendicitis) but that team would have not been able to reach the final. 
Sabonis' Real Madrid and Villacampa's Joventut have been the best Spanish team of last decade (and they got the Champions' Cup in a clear manner, not like FCB this year (everyone watched Barcelona - CSKA...). But, you see, who was the coach of those team? Pure Balcanian school... 

ACB is a great teather, it's a very rich league, there are team with more than 10.000 supporters, the best (???) players, but... it's soft. Absolutely. The two top teams recently have been Barcelona and Gasteiz, Real Madrid after the EL disappeared, the other teams have never been a problem for the Greek-Italian basketball: Unicaja Malaga, Estudianted Madrid and Pamesa Valencia... 

Pamesa is the joke of the whole Europe: how many times they started the former Cups Winners' Cup as favorite, losing it? The best has been in 2001, when they have lost a trophy against Chalon (...). And at the end, Marousi got the Saporta. 
To win this Cup Pamesa had to wait a competition without Greeks and with Roseto and Varese rapresenting Italy... 

The Greek league is a continue battle, every game is decisive: you lose once against a little team, and you've lost the home-court advantage too in the playoff. There are no doubts (or maybe are there?) that the 10th team in Spain is better than the 10th team of Greece (or Italy), but you can be sure that Panathinaikos or Olympiakos, have much more problems to make a 5 km. trip to go to play against Panionios or Ionikos at Nea Smyrna or Nea Philadelphia, than a Euroleague travel to play in Madrid against Estudiantes, the 15000 supporters of Estudiantes, the "Demencia" of Estudiantes... 
And I really would like to see Navarro -"Mister I can't beat my opponent without a scream"- or Estudiantes, Joventut, Real Madrid playing in Kaisariani, for example, where the capacity is 1500, against Near East in "that" atmosphere. A team like Estudiantes in this hell, a game you can't lose? 

The same happens in Italy, that's in the middle between Hellas and Spain: but what I can see are the Italian teams always on top (Virtus Bologna, Benetton Treviso, Skipper Bologna, Montepaschi Siena played the F4 in the last 5 years...), I can see two Italian teams practically always playing the F4 (1999, 2001. 2002, 2003). And I can see an Italian NT -a team without talent- at the Olympic Games, with a bronze medal at the neck. 

About the Spanish NT, I've seen a team that has been so lucky to meet Israel in the quarters (suffering 35 minutes... we are talking about Israel, not the Boston Celtics), Italy in the semifinal (suffering 39 minutes and 59 seconds, till the missed shot of Bulleri)... and then what? Spain met a team, a true team, without NBA stars, with players coming from Zalgiris, Ulker and Rytas, with only a European star, and Spain has been destroyed. Against Lithuania after one minute it was clear who would have won the gold medal. _Any other result than a lost, would have been a very disappointment_... maybe the Spanish basketball has been able to overcome the shock of Stockolm: it seems the Spanish basketball is used to lose... 

I've nothing against the Spaniards, against the Spanish basketball (I'm personally a Real Madrid lover, for its history and meaning) but I'm a little bit tired to listen that the Spanish basketball is the best, "we are the best" and other blabbering. 
15000 spectators, a "NBA rookie of the year" and a fantastic site like www.acb.com aren't enough to say this is a winning basketball...


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## Chef (Nov 24, 2002)

Maybe Greek League is hard because every team has little talent, so it makes it difficult for a team to win easily


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## SEOK (Apr 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Chef</b>!
> Maybe Greek League is hard because every team has little talent, so it makes it difficult for a team to win easily


Where was the little talent of Panathinaikos 2000 or 2002? 
Where was the little talent of Marousi 2001 or AEK 2000? (probably it was laughing at the big talent of Pamesa...)

We are talking of heart, Chef. I've seen with my eyes Dejan Bodiroga coming of from a court, after a game of his Panathinaikos against a little team of Greece (maybe Dafni), and he couldn't even walk. He played 45 minutes, and Panathinaikos won by 2. Maybe the opponents missed talent, but that season Panathinaikos simply won a Euroleague... I don't think Panathinaikos too was a so awful team. 
This is something that happens every match-day, you see a top-team suffering a lot a game that normally, if basketball would be a mathematical science, the top-team would win 100-60. 

Can't you remember how strong was the work for Barcelona to beat twice Olympiakos (the worst Olympiakos ever, with Mpountouris, Giannouzakos, De Marco Johnson and De Miguel in the starting five...) last year? Imagine that Olympiakos was only 4th in Greece, and wasn't so far from the F4... 
No talent (at all), but a big heart, a big pride, a big attitude. 
You can be the best basketball player, the basketball team of the world, but without heart, pride and attitude your road will always be short.


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## Genjuro (Jul 17, 2002)

Some thoughts:

We are talking about an age, the last decade, when top Greek and Italian teams had much bigger budgets than Spanish teams. At least that was true until a couple of years ago.

But despite that fact, Spanish teams, those we have already mentioned, have eventually dominated Europe.



> Originally posted by *SEOK!*
> Gasol's FC Barcelona has not been so brilliant, and couldn't pass the first round of the EL playoffs 2001 (vs Benetton Treviso). Ok, Gasol was out (appendicitis) but that team would have not been able to reach the final.


That's your opinion. I can't agree here. That team was really dominant, and their progression through the season was unbelieveable. By the time they played Benetton they were already great (with Gasol, of course) and they just kept getting better and better (ask any Real Madrid fan). I think the only team that could had competed against them would have been Virtus with Ginobili, Jaric, Abbio, Rigaudeau, Smodis, Griffith, Andersen and co. And I wouldn't bet my money on the Italians. By the way, Virtus budget was far bigger than Barcelona's (not to mention TAU Vitoria's).

Besides, F.C.Barcelona lost an Euroleague in the late 90s against PAO with some odd plays and odder referees decisions (Economou's block over Montero). I mean, this team has been at the European elite for almost the entire decade. Again, any possible comparation of budgets with Greek top teams is ridiculous.



> Originally posted by *SEOK!*
> and they got the Champions' Cup in a clear manner, not like FCB this year (everyone watched Barcelona - CSKA...).


Did I miss something? I watched that game and I didn't see anything strange.

About the coaches, what's wrong with having Balcanian ones?. Look at the Greek league and tell me who have been the top coaches lately.

Bottom line, I think you really have a problem with Spanish basketball or something like that. We were talking about Tomasevic and the soft Spanish basketball and you have just got mad talking about winning basketball and what the Spaniards say about its basketball.

Anyway, ACB is the best league right now in Europe, even if you like it or not, and Tomasevic influence came just when our league became the best.


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## Chef (Nov 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Genjuro</b>!
> 
> Bottom line, I think you really have a problem with Spanish basketball or something like that. We were talking about Tomasevic and the soft Spanish basketball and you have just got mad talking about winning basketball and what the Spaniards say about its basketball.


Maybe he is obsessed with Greek Basketball


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## qwertyu (Dec 29, 2002)

I am watching my team Olympiakos for the first time this season and it looks like we have a pretty good team.

To answer Red Bandit's question we started with Tomic, Gorenc, Giannouzakos, Jurak and Bagaric and Sklavos was the 6th man.

I don't know if anyone cares but the team looked very good. With players like Diamantopoulos (it looks like he will be the team's leading scorer), Liadelis and Milisavlievic the team has a very deep bench. Bagaric is a real presence inside, something we lacked last year and if we sign Wolkowyski we will have more depth. It was also good to see Tomic return to his natural position. I don't want to see him play at the 2 again.


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## SEOK (Apr 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>qwertyu</b>!
> I am watching my team Olympiakos for the first time this season and it looks like we have a pretty good team.
> 
> To answer Red Bandit's question we started with Tomic, Gorenc, Giannouzakos, Jurak and Bagaric and Sklavos was the 6th man.
> ...


Olympiakos is a candidate to be the best European team this year. A deep and talented team, without holes in the roster (maybe in 4?). The problems can come only for the presence of Diamantopoulos, Liadelis and Gorenc -three who love to have the ball in the hands and some particular "natures"- in the roles of sf and sf. 
The roster is impressive, the coach is good and the club is hungry: in Europe other teams didn't improve during the summer (only Pamesa and Maccabi). The other candidates to the victory in Euroleague aren't "dream teams". Barcelona without Jasikevicus and with Iliewski will lose a part of his potential (but Bodiroga won with Kutluay and Middleton in the starting five...), Treviso is still interesting but the team has not a pure shooter and isn't so dangerous in guard (Evans is so... beautiful but he doesn't seem oto be not so productive), CSKA lost Songaila and instead of the Lithuanian has Yehovic... 

I don't think there will be many doubts in Greece, Olympiakos will probably win his 10th championship, and in Europe _everything than a Final Four should be a big disappointment for you "gavros"... _.


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## Zelena Hracka (Dec 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>SEOK</b>!
> 
> 
> Olympiakos is a candidate to be the best European team this year. A deep and talented team, without holes in the roster (maybe in 4?). The problems can come only for the presence of Diamantopoulos, Liadelis and Gorenc -three who love to have the ball in the hands and some particular "natures"- in the roles of sf and sf.
> ...


Wow! That's a very optimistic view on this year's OSFP. I haven't even seen a "gavros" being so optimistic about the reds! I don't know if you are right or wrong (I would personally lilke to see a strong Olympiakos again in Europe) but it might not be so straightforward.

OT: I really can't wait for the championship to start. I believe that it is going to be very strong and competitive. A strong OSFP, a classical PAO, strong Aris, strong Makedonikos, strong Ionikos, a PAOK with a very good roster (in terms of names), an Iraklis with very good chamistry and without any major gaps, a Peristeri with a similar profile as last year, when they almost reached the final. I'm not sure about AEK though. They have the prospective but they are young and that might cost them. Maroussi has very good roster but they are almost a completely new team and this is goung to cost them too, at least in the beggining of the season. Appollon regardless of how good or bad they are, they have a strong home. Panionios, Irakleio, and Ilisiakos, I do not think thay can do anything good.


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## SEOK (Apr 3, 2003)

I've to admit I really like this Olympiakos, and despite my hate for the club, Kokkalis, the supporters of the "gate 7", the speaker of the team, I hope they could have a good international season. 

I think Olympiakos will win the league, the other finalist should be Panathinaikos, than the outsiders: Peristeri (I-like-this-team-this-year!), AEK, Marousi and Apollon. 
I wouldn't be so surprised to see Apollon, playing the playoff and the ULEB Cup next year (Varda could be the best center of the season with Bagaric). 
I don't think Thessaloniki will be a protagonist this year, but who knows, no-one could imagine that Aris would have played a very good season like the last one. 
Ionikos and Iraklis should be around the 10th th position, while the battle between Ilisiakos, Panionios, Irakleio to remain in A1 won't have prisoners... 

I bet 10 euros... 
finalists: Olympiakos, Panathinaikos 
semifinalists: Peristeri, Apollon or AEK
in the quarters: AEK or Apollon, PAOK, Makedonikos, Marousi 
9th, 10th, 11th, 12th: Irakleio, Aris, Iraklis, Ionikos (not in this order) 
in A2: Panionios, Ilisiakos


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## SEOK (Apr 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>SEOK</b>!
> I wouldn't be so surprised to see Apollon, playing the playoff and the ULEB Cup next year (Varda could be the best center of the season with Bagaric).


Hellenic National Cup, eights of final: Apollon Patra - Panathinaikos 90-82, Dontae' Jones 40...


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## Red_Bandit (Apr 20, 2003)

thanks everyone for your replies.

if you have nba 2003 for PC, then download the patch, its amazing. Its a total conversion so that you can use all the teams i mentioned with their home and away jerseys and 90% of the teams have their home courts. about 200 players have actual faces and player ratings are very realistic.

gantelo wouldnt Goran Nikolic be the starting centre for Efes Pilsen??

and wouldnt Rentzias (212cm) be the centre while Blair (208cm) shifts over to PF for Ulker?


and SEOK, as much as i like Olympiakos, do you really think they willl be one of the top teams?? Here are some teams that i think improved greatly this offseason

Unicaja Malaga signed two of the best players in european basketball (walter herrmann and victor alexandar), 

CSKA got Marcus Brown from EFES, Turkan from last years final 4 team Montepaschi and Dragan Tarlac, who should be healthy this season. Plus Monya is becoming a very good player and will probably enter the NBA draft this year

Pamesa signed Dikoudis who is a good backup for Oberto/Tomasevic at PF, Rigadeau (old but still very reliable) and one of the top PG's in popovic 

Tau signed Macijaukas from Lietuvos Rytas who was one of the top shooters in all of europe last year, plus they signed andrew betts from AEK to go along with their already talented front court of Scola and Nocioni.

Maccabi, the host team, signed the second best PG in europe Jasikevicius from Barcelona. They got Maceo Baston who was playing for the Raptors last season and should still be in the NBA (as a backup of course) and guard anthony parker who led his team Roma to the Euroleague for the first time in a while.

Skipper signed Milos Vujanic, europes top PG away from Partizan. They signed Smodis, Lorbek and Mottolla, 3 very talented PFs who add size and talent to the team.

Benetton lost Trajon Langdon to EFES but Markoishvili is suppose to have the potential to be one of the top 20 players in Europe. He might not be a superstar this year, but if he plays i believe he will do well. And as you said, they also signed Maurice Evans who will be an offense machine for Treviso. And with Edny as PG, Benetton will always be dangerous, he is an amazing player who should still be in the NBA.

And if Real Madrid are allowed to take Virtus Bologna's spot in Euroleague, then watch out for them. they signed Kaspars Kambala from EFES, one of the top centres/pf in europe. Point Guard Elmer Bennett from Tau and Fotsis from Panathinaikos, this will be a lot better team this year then they were last year.

All in all, a lot of top teams have improved greatly this year. Unicaja, CSKA, Barcelona and Skipper, if these teams dont meet earlier, then i think they will be in the final 4 with Maccabi, Benetton and Tau very close to making it.


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## Matiz (Jun 5, 2003)

Nice post.


> and wouldnt Rentzias (212cm) be the centre while Blair (208cm) shifts over to PF for Ulker?


mostlikely.
I agree that all these clubs improved except Unicaja Malaga, last years team consisted from top-euro stars like Gurovic, Okulaja... so imo they didn't improve that much that they became finalfour candidate.


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## Gousgounis (Jul 24, 2003)

> and wouldnt Rentzias (212cm) be the centre while Blair (208cm) shifts over to PF for Ulker?


Well Rentzias plays like a SG so I doubt he will be playing C....


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## SEOK (Apr 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Red_Bandit</b>!
> and wouldnt Rentzias (212cm) be the centre while Blair (208cm) shifts over to PF for Ulker?


Probably Rentzias will play "4", and Blair "5" 



> and SEOK, as much as i like Olympiakos, do you really think they willl be one of the top teams?? Here are some teams that i think improved greatly this offseason


Yes, on the paper, Olympiakos worths the F4 



> CSKA got Marcus Brown from EFES, Turkan from last years final 4 team Montepaschi and Dragan Tarlac, who should be healthy this season. Plus Monya is becoming a very good player and will probably enter the NBA draft this year


Monia and Khryapa will be the key for CSKA: now it's time for them to become dominants in Europe (before flying on the other side of the Lake). Songaila and Alexander are much better than Yehovic-Turkcan ("Mr. 2 points and 3 rebounds" when he's playing a crucial game) and Tarlac... Personally I don't like Brown. 



> Pamesa signed Dikoudis who is a good backup for Oberto/Tomasevic at PF, Rigadeau (old but still very reliable) and one of the top PG's in popovic


Rigaudeau if healty is still one of the best European players... and the minutes of Tomasevic with Ntikoudis in the team will decrease very much. 



> Maccabi, the host team, signed the second best PG in europe Jasikevicius from Barcelona. They got Maceo Baston who was playing for the Raptors last season and should still be in the NBA (as a backup of course) and guard anthony parker who led his team Roma to the Euroleague for the first time in a while.


...and Maccabi organizes the F4 too... how can they miss the finals? 



> Skipper signed Milos Vujanic, europes top PG away from Partizan. They signed Smodis, Lorbek and Mottolla, 3 very talented PFs who add size and talent to the team.


They still have not a center. Savic is looking for a center. Actually the team is not "so" equilibrated. Let's wait to judge them. 



> Benetton lost Trajon Langdon to EFES but Markoishvili is suppose to have the potential to be one of the top 20 players in Europe. He might not be a superstar this year, but if he plays i believe he will do well. And as you said, they also signed Maurice Evans who will be an offense machine for Treviso. And with Edny as PG, Benetton will always be dangerous, he is an amazing player who should still be in the NBA.


Benetton is not dangerous on the perimeter. Evans is not a shooter while Markoishvili and Giovannoni still have to... eat a lot of basketball. But "Marko" is amazing. I've the impression that Maurice Evans won't finish the season with the "casuals"... 



> And if Real Madrid are allowed to take Virtus Bologna's spot in Euroleague, then watch out for them. they signed Kaspars Kambala from EFES, one of the top centres/pf in europe. Point Guard Elmer Bennett from Tau and Fotsis from Panathinaikos, this will be a lot better team this year then they were last year.


Let's hope that Euroleague won't invite Real Madrid. The 4th spot is for an Italian team, Italy had two teams in the last five editions of the F4 (Virtus Bologna 4 times, Benetton Treviso 3 times, Skipper Bologna 2 times, Montepaschi one presence) so the missing spot must go to Cantu' or Siena. 



> All in all, a lot of top teams have improved greatly this year. Unicaja, CSKA, Barcelona and Skipper, if these teams dont meet earlier, then i think they will be in the final 4 with Maccabi, Benetton and Tau very close to making it.


Barcelona lost Jasikevicius and added Iliewski... blaugrana didn't improve so much... I think the finalists will be Olympiakos, Pamesa, Benetton and Maccabi.


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## qwertyu (Dec 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>SEOK</b>!
> 
> 
> Olympiakos is a candidate to be the best European team this year. A deep and talented team, without holes in the roster (maybe in 4?). The problems can come only for the presence of Diamantopoulos, Liadelis and Gorenc -three who love to have the ball in the hands and some particular "natures"- in the roles of sf and sf.
> ...


I don't think we have a hole at the 4. Jurak looks really good and Sklavos has always been an under-rated player. They're both good scorers and I couldn't ask for more from a player who plays at that position.

The distribution of playing time might be a problem but Liadelis didn't look bothered that he had to be a back-up against Iraklio. I don't know if that will change in the future because both Liadelis and Gorenc want minutes at the position and they both will want to play at the end of the game. There might be a problem with Milisavlievic too being Tomic's back-up. He was trying hard against Iraklio to prove what he can do and he seemed nervous and made some mistakes, but if he gets used to his role he will be very helpful.
Diamantopoulos against Iraklio was the SF and since Giannouzakos doesn't complain for minutes he will get to play a lot. It looks like he will be the team's leading scorer and he will probably play the most minutes along with Bagaric.


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## qwertyu (Dec 29, 2002)

I really hope Olympiakos will be one of the top teams this year. Last year we didn't go to the F4 because we didn't have a 5 to stop ****a and Duenas this year we're much stronger inside with Bagaric. We also signed the leading scorers of the greek and the italian league (Diamantopoulos and Gorenc). It's still too early to tell though which teams will be good. I guess we'll just have to wait.

As for Rentzias he might be tall but he's not a C and he will never be. He's much more effective when he plays at the 4.


> Originally posted by <b>Red_Bandit</b>!
> thanks everyone for your replies.
> 
> if you have nba 2003 for PC, then download the patch, its amazing. Its a total conversion so that you can use all the teams i mentioned with their home and away jerseys and 90% of the teams have their home courts. about 200 players have actual faces and player ratings are very realistic.
> ...


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## qwertyu (Dec 29, 2002)

Maurice Evans is a good shooter but I don't think he will last long with Benetton either.


> Originally posted by <b>SEOK</b>!
> 
> Probably Rentzias will play "4", and Blair "5"
> 
> ...


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## SEOK (Apr 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>qwertyu</b>!
> I don't think we have a hole at the 4. Jurak looks really good and Sklavos has always been an under-rated player. They're both good scorers and I couldn't ask for more from a player who plays at that position.


Sklavos was really impressive last year, he has now to show to stay at the same level in a very competitive team. For example, he has not to follow the steps of Papaioakeim from Iraklis to Makedonikos.
Sincerely I don't know Jurak and I've practically never heard about him... anyway, Olympiakos with or without a pf (but I could bet now that both Jurak and Sklavos will be more important than DeMarco Johnson...) has just one problem, the one you mentioned. 
Ah, my opinion: I've seen Gorenc playing the crunch-time many times: well Qwertyu, hope that Liadellis will be on court in those moments. 

Question for you Qwe: with Milisavlijevic and Tomic, do you think Hristos Harisis will leave the team before the end of the season or not? I wouldn't like to see him in some "Alicante" or "Livorno" after Christmas just to play basketball and earn money...


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## Gousgounis (Jul 24, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>qwertyu</b>!
> Maurice Evans is a good shooter but I don't think he will last long with Benetton either.


I think Evans is more of an athletic freak than a shooter....


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## qwertyu (Dec 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>SEOK</b>!
> 
> 
> Sklavos was really impressive last year, he has now to show to stay at the same level in a very competitive team. For example, he has not to follow the steps of Papaioakeim from Iraklis to Makedonikos.
> ...


I've only seen the team once SEOK and I really don't know what the coach'es plans are for Harisis. It's too early to tell but it doesn't look like he has a role on this team. Last year he had a bad year but it was his first year on the team and I expected him to improve. When we signed Milisavlievic and released Boudouris I thought Harisis would be Milisavlievic's back-up but I had forgotten about Tomic. I guess we'll see what happens with Harisis.


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## qwertyu (Dec 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Gousgounis</b>!
> 
> I think Evans is more of an athletic freak than a shooter....


Yeah he is really athletic, but last year he shot really well with Olympiakos. He played well in most of the games but when we needed him the most against Barcelona he couldn't handle the pressure. And when Markovic started to outplay him he didn't fight to earn his minutes back but decided to leave the team instead.

So if Benetton has some other SG (like Markoishvili) who steals minutes from Evans I don't really know how he will react.


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