# Dicky Is Not A Franchise Point Guard!



## Sir I Gotta Go

Dan Dickau was drafted to replace Jaque Vaughn as the backup. He won't get more than 22 minutes. Yet, chad Ford calls him Atlanta's true franchise point. 

umm, according to Peter Babcock they already have a point named Jason Terry. 

Just because Terry plays SG every once in a while he gets the label "Not A True Point" He is a damn good point guard.

Dicky was drafted last in the first round yet Atlanta needs to find people to tutor him and start building around him. 

I hate Chad Ford.

Please refrain from using phraises you used here to describe a writer. truebluefan


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## p

i agree Jason Terry is a good point guard, but i like him shooting... i read in Slam Magazine one time that he has this insane shooting regiment... like he cant leave the gym until he makes a certain amount of baskets (im sure someone on this message board knows the number)

dickau looked solid in summer league (yeah i know that means nothing) so i say, the guy works so hard, let the guy shoot...

J, T, Money!


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## Hotlantadude198

Everybody says JT shot too much.,but when your
teammates are:Hanno Mottola/Mark Strickland/
Leon Smith/Matt Maloney/Jim Jackson(played poor
the second year with us)/Cal Bowdler/Emanual
Davis/Dickey Simpkins.

The only other scorer we had this year was Shareef...
Nazr wasn't consisant and Kukoc was injuried and
inconsisant.

The year before that Wright was probably our second
best scorer.

I expect him to drop to around 16PPG and average
7.5APG.That's fine with me.If he can put up Sam
Cassell numbers I am fine.


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## k^2

> Originally posted by <b>Malakian</ Dan Dickau was drafted to replace Jaque Vaughn as the backup. He won't get more than 22 minutes. Yet, chad Ford calls him Atlanta's true franchise point.
> 
> umm, according to Peter Babcock they already have a point named Jason Terry.
> 
> Just because Terry plays SG every once in a while he gets the label "Not A True Point" He is a damn good point guard.
> 
> Dicky was drafted last in the first round yet Atlanta needs to find people to tutor him and start building around him.
> I hate Chad Ford.


 because he has an opinion. Maybe the man is right. Dikau an play, simple as that. Paul Peirce took Boston the playoffs. Carter took the raptors to the playoffs. Allen Iverson took the no talent 6ers to the finals. Where has Jason Terry taken the Hawks, nowhere. I'm not Jason Terry hater I'm just a Dan Dikau fan.

i edited his post and therefore had to edit your reply. You were right to question him on the choice of words he used. truebluefan


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## ATLien

Dan Dickau will never be a starter in this league. Doesn't have a killer crossover to get by people, and doesn't have the speed like most PGs. Can't rebound, and isn't a great defender.

To me, that isn't the description of a franchise PG! Dickau is a mediocre backup at best, IMVHO.


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## MightyReds2020

> Originally posted by <b>GeorgiaSports</b>!
> Dan Dickau will never be a starter in this league. Doesn't have a killer crossover to get by people, and doesn't have the speed like most PGs. Can't rebound, and isn't a great defender.
> 
> To me, that isn't the description of a franchise PG! Dickau is a mediocre backup at best, IMVHO.


Since when a starting PG must have a 'killer crossover'? Look at John Stockton, he was every bit of the type of player you said above in his rookie season. Suprisingly John is still playing for will play his 19th season AS A STARTER!


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## ATLien

John is a GREAT defender and a GREAT passer. Two things Dickau isn't. Stockton also played most of his career with the best PF of all time.


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## Sir I Gotta Go

Just read his article. He has obviously never seen Terry play.


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## MightyReds2020

> Originally posted by <b>GeorgiaSports</b>!
> John is a GREAT defender and a GREAT passer. Two things Dickau isn't. Stockton also played most of his career with the best PF of all time.


Check out John's rookie season stats, he wasn't that GREAT right? Obviously you can learn things like defense and passing when you actually start playing in NBA. According to scouts Dan Dickau is a better athlete then Stockton was although they aren't really similar.


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## Sir I Gotta Go

You know what? there is no comparison between Stockton and Dicky. Stockton has the most assists of all time and is the third best PG of all time, while Dicky is a backup jumpshooter.


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## jazzy1

Jason Terry is a terrible point guard and a pretty good sg. Jason Terry is looking to get stats and doesn't pass to anyone. Why do you think Atlanta got Dickau because they probably want to move Terry, no big loss there he's a streak shooter who doesn't run a team very well. Dickau is more of a Mark Price type of player with solid passing skills and natural point guard instincts ,He'll be a fine point, much better than Terry. Dickau runs the pick and roll very well either looking inside or pulling up I'd compare him to Price. Hawks will be better off with Dickau at point than Terry. Dickau will eventually start, teams don't trade for 1st round picks at the pg position if they're happy with what they have already.


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## ATLien

Uh no. They got Dickau because he's a cheaper backup than Vaughn. Lots of great PGs look to shoot, but you don't see people calling them SGs.

Edit: What makes you think JT is a bad PG? He did everything a point guard is supposed to do. Distribute, score, win. The Hawks were over .500 with JT at PG (granted, that wasn't many games).


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## jazzy1

They didn't trade for a 1st rd pick because he was cheaper hell they could sign or trade for any cheap back-up pg , Terry is being shopped and Georgia you probably watch most of their games but come on Terry had a bad year last year I'm not blaming him for all the teams woes but he's more like an Iverson, a short 2 guard , he wants to score all the time when he should be distributing the ball he's not a natural point guard and everyone identifies that as the weakness of the team, thats why that other guy was the starter early at pg before he got hurt I forgot whats his name. Starts with an e.


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## dirty bruce

emanuel davis


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## Hotlantadude198

Jazzy maybe you should watch him play before
opening your mouth.He averaged 20.2PPG 7APG
the second half of last year.Is that bad to you?
20/7 is bad?Get real.Do I have to bring up his
second half stats for ESPN again to show them
to you..,Does SG's get 10 assist in 4 out of 5
games?Does that happen?Show me ONE SG
that did that IN any 5 games this year.Show
me ONE SG that did that.I bet you would be
unable to find one.Go look....I dare you.

And stop comparing Dickau to Stockton.The law of
averages goes againest Dan.ONE player doesn't
pull it in Dan's favorite.Since John there has been
Bobby Hurley/Jacque Vaughn/Rumeal Robinson and
more PG busts that you can count.Sorry,IT ain't 
happening, so people might aswell get over it right
now before they become dissapointed.Stockton
came out of college TWO decades ago.TWO decades
AGO.People are trying to find the next Stockton
like they tried for years to find the next Larry
Bird.It's not gunna happen.Get over it.

"everyone identifies that as the weakness of the team,"

Yeah,the people that don't watch the games.Maybe you
should realize Hanno Mottola/Mark Strickland and what
about injuries.Go read Chad Ford some more...Afterall,
he's a scout and a GM so he knows everything....WHATEVER
you will find out this year and you bet your rear I will 
comeback and shove it down your throat.


http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/gamelog?statsId=3333

12 times in April he hit 8 assist or more.That isn't passing the
ball?What do you make of that?

Face it,you are WRONG.





> Originally posted by <b>jazzy1</b>!
> They didn't trade for a 1st rd pick because he was cheaper hell they could sign or trade for any cheap back-up pg , Terry is being shopped and Georgia you probably watch most of their games but come on Terry had a bad year last year I'm not blaming him for all the teams woes but he's more like an Iverson, a short 2 guard , he wants to score all the time when he should be distributing the ball he's not a natural point guard and everyone identifies that as the weakness of the team, thats why that other guy was the starter early at pg before he got hurt I forgot whats his name. Starts with an e.


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## Sir I Gotta Go

See the thing is, Atlanta is never on national TV, but I have League Pass and Atlanta is one of my favorite teams. I watched like 70 of their games. Terry is a point guard.


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## Hotlantadude198

Vaughn left cause his PT sliped.He averaged around
19MPG in the second half.That's not alot for a backup
PG....And there is a reason he went from 24MPG to
19MPG....It's because Terry ran this team and led us
to a winning record.

It's funny how people talk about some little dude that
hasn't even made a NBA basket and was basically a
2nd round pick.


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## ATLien

> Originally posted by <b>Malakian</b>!
> See the thing is, Atlanta is never on national TV, but I have League Pass and Atlanta is one of my favorite teams. I watched like 70 of their games. Terry is a point guard.


That's the thing, the last time the Hawks were on national TV was early last year when JT was still playing SG against Iverson (bad coach move).

I remember that too, Iverson was coming off a wrist injury and Kruger said he told JT to play loose on AI because he wouldn't be as effective. Yeah, whatever Lon. AI lit it up.


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## Hotlantadude198

He can play both.Doesn't anyone see where our team is
headed?Do you see the model off the team?

Terry-------------------Bibby
Johnson----------------Christie(both better defenders than scorers)
Big Dog------------------Peja(scorers with no defense)
SAR------------------------Webber(best all round players on team)
Theo----------------------Vlade(11/9 centers)

Obviousally we are not as good.But do you see the
model of the team?Then when the subs come in we
have:

Dickau--------------------Bibby
Terry----------------------Jackson
Big Dog-------------------Peja
SAR------------------------Webber
Theo-----------------------Vlade

Do you see what we are trying to do?Lon loves to go with the
small backcourt sometimes.

Obviousally we aren't close in talent level.But surely you can
see what is going on.That is why Dickau was drafted.




> Originally posted by <b>Malakian</b>!
> See the thing is, Atlanta is never on national TV, but I have League Pass and Atlanta is one of my favorite teams. I watched like 70 of their games. Terry is a point guard.


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## NYKRule

There is a reason why Dickau was picked that late.


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## Sir I Gotta Go

He was picked that late because he can't lead a team. He is slow and can't dribble that well.


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## Hotlantadude198

His defense appears to be the worst thing.He
can get screened off very easy.I think we are
looking for him to play a Bobby Jackson type
of role once he gets used to the NBA.


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## Wink

I would compare double D more to Bibby or Nash than I would to Stockton...I think you give Dan the Man about 3 or 4 years in the league and he will become an allstar or at least a star in the league.


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## Mr. Vin Diesel

Franchise Point Guard? Dan isn't even a starting point guard, Jesus Christ people.


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## Sir I Gotta Go

> Originally posted by <b></b>!
> I would compare double D more to Bibby or Nash than I would to Stockton...I think you give Dan the Man about 3 or 4 years in the league and he will become an allstar or at least a star in the league.


Dicky will never be an allstar.


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## MightyReds2020

> Originally posted by <b>Malakian</b>!
> You know what? there is no comparison between Stockton and Dicky. Stockton has the most assists of all time and is the third best PG of all time, while Dicky is a backup jumpshooter.


First of all I never compared Dickau and Stockton, the only thing I said between them was Dickau has better athleticsm, and that's the comments from several scouting reports.

Second of all I believe they were tons of people saying Stockton would never be a great player like he is now when he just get drafted. He certainly didn't look like until his fourth season, when he finally got a chance to start regularly. What I try to said is c'mon give this guy(Dickau) a break. Don't be so cruel to a rookie, you'll never know how far a player can go in NBA. Again I am not saying Dickau will be as great as Stockton. I just hope that people don't critize a rookie until he has actually play a season in NBA.


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## jazzy1

First off Hotlanta I Have league pass also and I know DJ he grew up in my Hood here in the DC area, so I know of which I speak, Jason Terry is no pg , thats why they need one and Secondly I never compared Dickau to Stockton so CHECK YOUR FACTS BEFORE YOU POST, I compared him to MARK PRICE how are you guys so sure before you've seen him play in a regular game that this kid can't play, He played well in the summer league which isn't really a barometer but he's done nothing to show he isn't good otherwise, now JASON TERRY does have a record, noticed how you went to the 2nd have of the season stats they were way out of it then, Look I'm not bagging on the Hawks my Boy plays for them but JT is not a good pg, I'd figure you'd want DICKAU to play well and help your team. Terry can score at the 2 but TURNOVERS kill this guy plus he doesn't get people involved, he got game but more in line of a Iverson type than a Traditional pg. Emanual Davis started at pg early in the season, that should tell you something then WHY DID THE FRANCHISE TRADE FOR DICKAU if they were so convinced TERRY was a good pg they're not thats why they made the trade. They could get anybody toplay back up you don't trade for a 1st rd pick unless you are sure he could play a need position for you. Hell Dickau may not be good but you can't tell that already unless you have a crystal ball. Now I can say for some certainty that Terry is much better at the 2 than the 1.


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## T-ro

you cant say what he will and wont be without him playing a nba game in his life....let the man play then decide


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## Sir I Gotta Go

> Originally posted by <b>jazzy1</b>!
> Emanual Davis started at pg early in the season, that should tell you something then WHY DID THE FRANCHISE TRADE FOR DICKAU if they were so convinced TERRY was a good pg they're not thats why they made the trade. They could get anybody toplay back up you don't trade for a 1st rd pick unless you are sure he could play a need position for you. Hell Dickau may not be good but you can't tell that already unless you have a crystal ball. Now I can say for some certainty that Terry is much better at the 2 than the 1.


The first round pick came originally from Detroit. Detroit gets to pick the first rounder. Sacramento owes Detroit a first rounder in 2004. That will probably be the last pick. Detroit will probably pick Sacramento's pick to give up. So Sacramento might have just traded to get their own pick back. Atlanta knew it wouldn't be a high pick because Detroit is a good team. They knew they couldn't afford to keep Vaughn. So give up a late first rounder to get a nice jump shooting backup. Why not?

Terry is a point guard! Did you watch the Hawks after the allstar break? He kept growing and getting better. And the Hawks were getting better. If he can't get people involved, then why did he get a double double 4 out of 5 games at one point.


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## "Matt!"

I love how everyone is scared to compare the white guy to a black guy.

He's gonna end up being like Derek Fisher, but with less options, and lacking a fruity headband. He'll be asked to take over the team, and kind of feed into the options they already have; unfortunately, Jason Terry and Nazr Mohammed are not Kobe Bryant and Shaq O'Neil. 

Defense can be taught, but Dickau has a certain sense for the game.


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## Hotlantadude198

First of all,I don't give a rat about what happend in the
first half ok.I care about what I saw after the allstar
break.The stats in the second half of the season(and
the fact that we had a winning record in the 2nd half)
don't backup what you are saying.Hitting 4 out of 5
games hitting double figures in assist isn't something
SG's do.You totally ignored this arguement.

2nd of all Dickau WAS FAR for impressive in the summer
league...I'm not sure he even shot 40%.That is impressive?

"I'd figure you'd want DICKAU to play well and help your team. "

Honestly?I don't want him on the team period and I will
always reject him.

As far as getting people involved goes,what would Dermarr
know about that?He is a scared puppy on offense.He is
scared to take the ball to the basket and has extremely 
POOR ball handling skills and has no control over his
body.He is alot better defender though.Right now your
boy is looking like a NBA bust for a lotto pick.

Just because you have league pass doesn't mean anything.
I've got alots of people at Hawksquawk that watched
the games and they saw Terry was a PG.These guys aren't
Johnny Come lately fans...Most have watched the team
since Eddie Johnson and John Drew.

And I watched the games.I saw 7-10 assists alot of times
the second half of the season.The first half doesn't mean
anything.ALot of your arguement seems to be based on
the first half.Well we were 14-30 something then and
19-16 with him AT PG the second half of the season.Those
are the IMPORTANT stats.THe first half is non important.

"noticed how you went to the 2nd have of the season stats 
they were way out of it then, "

So that means that his PG vision improved because we were
out of it at second half?Sorry that doesn't cut it.Basketball
doesn't work that way.This is the same agrument that
said"Terry only averaged 19.7PPG because he was the
only scorer on his team"then we get Shareef and Terry
averaged 19.4PPG proving that people were WRONG.Guess
what....next year he is going to prove people wrong AGAIN.

Also,if he is just a scorer why would he start passing more
instead of shooting more when we were out of the playoff
race?

"Now I can say for some certainty that Terry is much better 
at te 2 than the 1"

Where does your info come from?Go to the stat sheet and
show me what Terry done better at the two?Did he score
more?NOPE....Did he rebound more?NOPE.....Did he pass
more?

JT as a SG:

PPG:18.7
Shooting % 43%
steals:1.8
APG:4.8

JT as a PG:
PPG:20.2
Shooting:42%
Steals:1.8
APG:6.9

He averaged 2.1 turnovers at SG and 2.6 turnovers at
PG....They went up .5 and considering he handles the
more....Hell Francis averages near 4 turnovers a game!
Is he a natural PG?He turns the ball over almost as
much as he makes a assist.

His scoring was up at PG aswell as his assist...How do
you explain that?IF he was better at SG wouldn't some
stats atleast suggest that?His scoring was better at the
1...his assist were better.....his steals stayed the same...

Wins
assist
Points

All went UP with him at PG.So what if he isn't a TRUE
pg...Would you trade Terry for Brevin Knight?Because
that is who Dan Dickau is.Afterall,BK is a true PG and
has great PG vision....and you know what?We were
alot better at PG when Terry played the position than
when Brevin Knight did.maybe that shouldn't happen
since BK is the true PG?This fad for a true PG is just
that....a Fad.

Sam Cassell/Steve Francis/Chuncy Billups/Stoudamire/
aren't true PG's either.Would you trade Francis for
Knight because Knight is a true PG?

Like Knight,Dickau may make a few nice passes...but
that don't mean you give up a possible allstar for
him.Jt is a good leader and a good clutch player.Trading
his is trouble because Big Dog and Shareef couldn't
carry a bag of potatoes mustless a team in a tight
game in the 4th period.Terry has that ability.Just
like he schooled Andre Miller your natural PG to the
tune of 43 points and 11assist....SO much for the
true PG.Terry destroyed him so bad they took Miller
off of him in the overtime and put Ricky Davis on
Terry.

It gets pretty bad when Terry is schooling your natural
PG so badly they even try and guard him with a SF.Terry
also done the same thing to Steve Nash.They put Johnny
Newman and Finley on Terry.

Dickau might make nice passes,but he can be shut down
ALOT easier than Terry can.

The only reason I even bothered with such a long post is
because I have no car and am stuck home all day(totally
sucks)

As far as the future goes?When Pete babcock mentioned
our future team he said JT/DJ/Big Dog/Theo/SAR.I'd love
to see what Terry does to Dickau in practice.He says that
is our future.Not only that,the coach said Terry IS the starting
PG without question.

Of and for your info,today at the press conference The GM
was asked if Terry would be traded...and Pete made it clear
that he isn't gunna be traded.

Unless you come up with a stat or a real reason as to how
Terry is better at the two you are wrong.Our defense also
improved by 5PPG in the second half with Terry AT THE POINT
GUARD.
















> Originally posted by <b>jazzy1</b>!
> First off Hotlanta I Have league pass also and I know DJ he grew up in my Hood here in the DC area, so I know of which I speak, Jason Terry is no pg , thats why they need one and Secondly I never compared Dickau to Stockton so CHECK YOUR FACTS BEFORE YOU POST, I compared him to MARK PRICE how are you guys so sure before you've seen him play in a regular game that this kid can't play, He played well in the summer league which isn't really a barometer but he's done nothing to show he isn't good otherwise, now JASON TERRY does have a record, noticed how you went to the 2nd have of the season stats they were way out of it then, Look I'm not bagging on the Hawks my Boy plays for them but JT is not a good pg, I'd figure you'd want DICKAU to play well and help your team. Terry can score at the 2 but TURNOVERS kill this guy plus he doesn't get people involved, he got game but more in line of a Iverson type than a Traditional pg. Emanual Davis started at pg early in the season, that should tell you something then WHY DID THE FRANCHISE TRADE FOR DICKAU if they were so convinced TERRY was a good pg they're not thats why they made the trade. They could get anybody toplay back up you don't trade for a 1st rd pick unless you are sure he could play a need position for you. Hell Dickau may not be good but you can't tell that already unless you have a crystal ball. Now I can say for some certainty that Terry is much better at the 2 than the 1.


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## Hotlantadude198

*I'm not scared*

To compare Dickau to a black guy...Vaughn or 
Brevin Knight.BK may have GREAT court vision,
but he gets shutdown easy on offense.

Dickau may have good court vision...But when
he gets 46 points and 12assist againest Steve
Nash then we will talk.Call me if Dickau ever
hits 46 points in his career....or even 35 points.


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## Hotlantadude198

I loved hearing that dude in the insider mention
that Terry is the Hawks corner stone.No big loss
(according to Jazzy)I think not.


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## Coatesvillain

I bet a few years ago, people would tell you that Steve Nash wouldn't be a franchise pg, because he lacked speed, he lacked defense, blah.. blah.

I guess Tony Parker, and Jamaal Tinsley are no good, because they were pretty much second round picks. I guess you have to be a high draft pick to be a good player.. 

Whoever said Bobby Hurley was a bust, was a jerk, it wasn't his fault his career was cut short.

But back to the point, you can't weigh what a guy will do until he gets out there. Sometimes the expectations placed on a player's shoulders is more than he can take, sometimes the expectations are so low that the player can leap over them without any problems.

To be really good in the league, isn't all about athletic abilities (no matter what people try to say), it's how you play the game mentally. You can be the fastest person in the world, and not know how to run the offense. Thing is, Dickau can run an offense, and he does shoot a whole lot, and he uses his brain a ton.

For all the praise you guys are giving Terry, it didn't sound like the Hawks organization were too pleased with him. More likely than not, this is his last season in Atlanta.

You guys say Dickau isn't a franchise point, and he won't be in the Allstar game but I'll put it like this: Jason Terry isn't a franchise point, and he won't be in the allstar game.

There's a Jason Terry in every draft, just your average run of the mill player of this day and age.

-Tim


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## jazzy1

THANKS PHILLY PHANATIC I AGREE as for the shot at DJ what does he know HE"S ON THE DAMN TEAM ARE YOU HOTLANTA that would be NOT the scared Puppy is in the game while you pay to watch him oops. 
Now please tell me of all the points on this list who is TERRY BETTER THAN

BIBBY 
JAMAL TINSLEY
BARON DAVIS
STEVE FRANCIS
TONY PARKER
STEPHON MARBURY
STEVE NASH
NICK THE QUICK
SAM CASSEL
PAYTON
KIDD
STOCKTON
ANDRE MILLER

Who did I miss anyone, Now who would you say Terry is better than on that list NO ONE thats why is terrible at the point and better at the two THEY TRIED SHOPPING TERRY BUT NO ONE wants him I'm a Wizard and Laker fan so I know full well about that late season stat surge RIP HAMILTON IS THE EXPERT AT FINISHING A USELESS SEASON STRONG WHEN NOBODY CARES about playing against a non playoff team. 

NOTHING WRONG with being a HOMER but if DICKAU can help the team you pull for why not think that a positive thing, How are you so sure that Dickau won't help I saw a summer League game they played against the Celtic and He PLAYED WELL, saw it with my own 2 eyes. I HOPE YOU"RE not against Dickau because he's white and Terry's black, Trust me I argue for the brothers when it's WARRANTED but not when it's not,


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## Sir I Gotta Go

> Originally posted by <b>jazzy1</b>!
> THANKS PHILLY PHANATIC I AGREE as for the shot at DJ what does he know HE"S ON THE DAMN TEAM ARE YOU HOTLANTA that would be NOT the scared Puppy is in the game while you pay to watch him oops.
> Now please tell me of all the points on this list who is TERRY BETTER THAN
> 
> BIBBY
> JAMAL TINSLEY
> BARON DAVIS
> STEVE FRANCIS
> TONY PARKER
> STEPHON MARBURY
> STEVE NASH
> NICK THE QUICK
> SAM CASSEL
> PAYTON
> KIDD
> STOCKTON
> ANDRE MILLER
> 
> Who did I miss anyone, Now who would you say Terry is better than on that list NO ONE thats why is terrible at the point and better at the two THEY TRIED SHOPPING TERRY BUT NO ONE wants him I'm a Wizard and Laker fan so I know full well about that late season stat surge RIP HAMILTON IS THE EXPERT AT FINISHING A USELESS SEASON STRONG WHEN NOBODY CARES about playing against a non playoff team.


 Tinsley, Bibby, Parker, Marbury, Nash, and Van Exel. Did you even read his post? He made some good points you chose to ignore.





> Originally posted by <b>jazzy1</b>!NOTHING WRONG with being a HOMER but if DICKAU can help the team you pull for why not think that a positive thing, How are you so sure that Dickau won't help I saw a summer League game they played against the Celtic and He PLAYED WELL, saw it with my own 2 eyes. I HOPE YOU"RE not against Dickau because he's white and Terry's black, Trust me I argue for the brothers when it's WARRANTED but not when it's not,


Dickau will get Juaque Vaughns' minutes. They couldn't afford Vaughn, so they gave up a late first rounder for Dicky. 

Please don't make this a racial thing. Nobody else has brought this up and I don't want to argue about if Dickau would be better if he was black because that is a load of crap. 

Dickau might be a good player, he might not. But, he will not be starting and i do not see him as a franchise point. Terry is the franchise player. If Dickau develops into a nice point, then Atlanta will have a nice problem on their hands. One of them could then be moved to bring in talent. But, right now Tery is the starter and Dicky is the backup.


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## SikHandlez24

Dan Dickau = Steve Nash


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## Hotlantadude198

I'd say he IS better than Cassell...Parker?Tinsley?
Wasn't the Pacers trying to get Rod Strickland
because they aren't comfortable with Tinsley?Did
Tinsley shoot 40% this year?Tinsley is a good 
passer,but after the first few months he fell off.He
might be a true PG,but Terry is better right now
overall.

Like Malakian said,you chose to ignore my points
AND stats.Miller was never in the playoff race either...
Does that mean he can't play PG?That alone kills
your aguement.Andre Miller was never in the race,
Bucks got worse in the second half(We got better)
so that kills your whole"Out of the playoff race"
theory.IT is weak.

You still failed to show me what Terry done better
at SG...He didn't even score more at SG.I backed
up my points with stats and the fact that not only
I feel he is the starting PG,but so does everyone
at Hawkswquawk.

I backed up my point with the stats and you are
giving your opinion.That's fine.But I think I agree
more with everyone of us at Hawksquawk(Most of
them go to the games)and Jay Walker the guy that
writes the articles at Realgm.And I agree more from
what i have seen and I saw 76 games this year.

As of right now Dickau is a nobody.He had a good 
college career,but that doesn't mean anything once
you get to the next level.

I predict he is the next Brevin Knight.Good passing
skills,but limited in so many other ways like shooting/
rebounding and scoring.He is going to be a limited
jump shooter.




> Originally posted by <b>Malakian</b>!
> 
> Tinsley, Bibby, Parker, Marbury, Nash, and Van Exel. Did you even read his post? He made some good points you chose to ignore.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dickau will get Juaque Vaughns' minutes. They couldn't afford Vaughn, so they gave up a late first rounder for Dicky.
> 
> Please don't make this a racial thing. Nobody else has brought this up and I don't want to argue about if Dickau would be better if he was black because that is a load of crap.
> 
> Dickau might be a good player, he might not. But, he will not be starting and i do not see him as a franchise point. Terry is the franchise player. If Dickau develops into a nice point, then Atlanta will have a nice problem on their hands. One of them could then be moved to bring in talent. But, right now Tery is the starter and Dicky is the backup.


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## Hotlantadude198

Btw,Terry's scoring was also more consisant the 2nd half...Only
twice did he go below 10 points.7 times he failed to reach
double figures as a SG i nthe first half.

Like I said,you are allowed to have your own opinion and
you obviousally feel different.But we will see what happens
when the season starts.That is what really matters.We will
see.


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## "Matt!"

I was only kidding about being scared to compare him to a black guy. It stemmed from an earlier post in which someone posted a very valid point; white guys get compared to white guys, and black guys get compared to black guys, 99% of the time.


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## Hotlantadude198

It's cool.

I'm just not going to change my opinions because
of a few nice summer league passes and the fact
that I saw Brevin Knight do the same things as
the starting PG there last season but those nice
passes were obviousally all he could do.

I hear all about the college..But as a Hawk fan
I have seen PLENTY of drafted disapointments.
Rumeal Robinson/Alan Henderson/Stacy Augmon/
Dion Glover/Ed Gray and right now Dermarr Johnson
is only playing good defense while not being that
good at anything else.Most of all he is scared of
the basketball.

I know Pete Babcocks drafting history.Other than
Terry he has yet to draft a player that has had any
ammount of sucess.

Btw,we also drafted Cal Bowdler with the 17th pick...
yuck!


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## jazzy1

Malakian PLEASE IGNORE HIS POINTS READ THE WHOLE POST SHOT DOWN HALF HIS POINTS ALREADY WHATS TO IGNORE WHY WOULD I WANT TO KEEP GOING AROUND IN CIRCLES THATS ALL HE'S DOING AND SO ARE YOU , wHY GO BACK AND KEEP SAYING THE SAME THINGS i COULD SAY THE SAME THINGS TO HIM WHY IS HE IGNORING MY POINTS , I OFFERED SOMETHING FRESH TO THE DISCUSSION NOT ARGUE IN CIRCLES ABOUT HIS 2ND HALF OF THE SEASON STATS MALAKIAN YOU NEED TO COME STRONGER THAN THAT why are you arguing for him don't you have anything to say thats original, Since he has a crystal ball and already knows what DICKAU is going to do than what's there to discuss,HOW CAN YOU FORTEL A ROOKIES PRODUCTION BEFORE WE EVEN SEE IT , HOW DOES HE KNOW, HOW DO YOU KNOW, but we do know JASON TERRY"S track record which is pretty lame thats why he was involved in trade RUMORS because the HAWKS want his ball hoggin too short for the 2 no instincts for the 1 turnover prone game outta there. 

AND ANOTHER THING SOMEONE ELSE BROUGHT UP the RACISM THING EARLIER IN THIS THREAD IF YOU CAN READ SO CHECK YOUR FACTS BEFORE YOU STEP TO ME WITH A SPEECH, I JUST EXTENDED THE POSSIBILITY, He never dealt with my point which is if anyone could help the team I pulled for actually improve I would embrace it rather than whine about the non playing guys that can't make the playoffs already on the team. 

Stats HOTLANTA man please how do they back up what argument YOUR WHOLE ARGUMENT IS OPINION THE WHOLE THING NOT SOME BUT THE WHOLE ARGUMENT AS WELL AS MY ARGUMENT IS OPINION All you're doing is commenting on how good TERRY IS and all I saying is HOW GOOD HE ISN"T nothing factual there nothing scientific, IDGIVE YOU YOUR PROPS IF HE WAS AN ALLSTAR HAD GAINEDSOME MEASURE OF RECOGNITION BUT HE HASN'T BECAUSE he plays the 2 spot most of the time to keep an actual pg on the floor to distribute the ball Emanual Davis got Hurt, Jaque Vaughn couldn't shoot , thats why he went back to pg spot, 

And another point I didn't say that about having meaningless stats at the end meant nothing because they were out of the playoffs , Andre Miller was good all year not just the end so I guess that kills your point, You keep saying 2nd half as if the part when he was out of contention was the most important part , I THOUGHT THE MOST IMPORTANT PART WAS THE PART WHEN PLAYOFF SPOTS AND POSITIONING MATTER MOST NOT WHEN YOUR PLAYING FOR LOTTO POSITION, 

and lastly I noticed that you said only 3 pgs he was better than off that list, only 3 men Sam and Tinsley are better points than Terry . And you know Parker is better than Terry. 

Man it feels good to KILL 2 BIRDS WITH 1 STONE. 

I have league pass I told you watched alot of the Hawks games with DJ"S people back here in DC I haven't watched 76 games but seen far more than half of their games DJ's my boy thats why I watched their games. So them being on national TV got nothing to do with it.


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## Hotlantadude198

IT doesn't matter what you say...You have no legit
arguement againest 20.2PPG 6.9APG.The stats
backup me(and so will the fans at Hawksquawk)
up because the numbers are there.And he had those
7 assist with a near talentless team.Guys like Hanno
Mottola and Cal Bowdlerv

"MATTER MOST NOT WHEN YOUR PLAYING FOR LOTTO
POSITION, "

We were playing for a lotto position?Then why did
our record improve instead of tanking the season?
If we were playing for a lotto position we would
have had a losing record in the 2nd half.Doesn't
that make more sense than having a winning
record which of course would hurt your draft
position?It doesn't make sense dude.We played
the 2nd half as if we were trying to make the
playoffs.It wasn't some take it easy and play
the games cause we aren't going to the playoffs
type of deal.A guy who watched the games would
have seen this.I think at one point we were only
like 4 or 5 games out so at times we were not
all the way out of the playoff picture anyway.

You watched half the games?To be honest,I don't
believe you.Why don't I believe you?Because it
was made clear that our objective was to go out
and play as hard as we could the 2nd half to build
momentum for next season....Not play for a lotto
position.

"Jaque Vaughn couldn't shoot , thats why he went back
to pg spot,"

Actually Vaughn shot 47%

And no,Terry was moved back to the PG spot to build
for this season.Now Vaughns the reason Terry was 
moved back to PG.This is so funny.

" I told you watched alot of the Hawks games with DJ"S
people back here in DC I haven't watched 76 games but
seen far more than half of their games DJ's my boy "

If you really know him ask him why he can't shoot 40% in
a season.Why can't he take the ball to the basket,why is
he scared of contact and most of all....why is he a bust
for a 6th pick.Dermarr Johnson lacks basketball knowledge
and that is part of the reason for his lack of improvement
because he has improved almost none on offense in two
years.

"lame thats why he was involved in trade RUMORS because
the HAWKS "

Oh please.Do you actually believe the NY media?I don't
like New Yorkers and crap like that is part of the reason
why.Those trade rumors came from the NY media so
they have no merit because what they say almost
never happens.Again,remember how we was gunna
ship Mutombo to NY for Camby/Rice?Remember how
the NY media was so sure of it?Guess what....it didn't
happen.

I told everyone we would be going for a 10 million SF
while everyone was saying our trade was gunna be
a PG.Why did what I say happen?That's right, cause
I know about the team instead of listening to offseason
rumors from the NY media that never happen.

I wished these media rumor god would have warned
us about the previous three trades ahead of time since
they are so gret backing up their rumors.

Do I think Terry is a better PG than Sam Cassell?heck
yeah I do.How did Cassell not get that team to the 
playoffs?Don't hand me the injury stuff cause we lead
the league in that department.Cassell is the REAL ball
hog.IF Terry had been on that Bucks team instead of
SC the Bucks would have made the playoffs.

It doesn't matter.I showed you the stats.I watch 76
games and NOT only that,I follow the team and keep
up with it alot more.You don't even know the reasons
Terry was moved back to PG.You going to tell me that
DJ said this and that?Well he also said he wanted to
dunk on MJ...but when we played the Wizs DJ nearly
took a dump in his pants when he was one on one
with MJ last season.DJ was like a scared puppy...but
then again,he has always been that way.

Your reasons changed anyway.First,you say JT's
stats are overrated,but then you make a case
for Miller despite the fact his team had a worse
record.It's not saying JT is as good as Miller because
he is not...It seems like the rules change abit.

Now I understand we had Shareef and Miller didn't.But
beyond that the Cavs had a better roster.

Hill would have lead us in rebounds,Murrey was a better
perimeter shooter than we had.Big Z is alot bigger and
is a better player than Nazr Mohammad is....Ricky Davis
got alot better and Person was one of the top 3pt shooters
in the league.

After JT/Reef our roster diped to:

Mohammad
Mottola
Vaughn
Bowdler
Strickland
Email
Leon Smith
Toni Kukoc-only averaged 8PPG in second half of season.

Mottola/Bowdler/Strick/Smith probably will not even be
in the league this season.

It just seems as if the rules change to fit your arguement.
The Cavs still sucked this season and so did we.We had
a better second half than the Cavs did with Terry at PG
and Miller at PG.The rules shouldn't change.But teams
had bad seasons.So in order to take away Terry's numbers
as a PG in the second half the same should be done to
Miller.

Terry will play PG for the full season next year and we will
be sucessful with him there and if we are not I will come
back and say you are right.How that be?Sound good to
you?

We aren't going to agree so I might aswell do this.I've
made my arguements.And the fact that Terry averaged
6.9apg with a medicore coach like Lon Kruger and backups
like Vaughn/Hanno/Newble playing major roles I think
my case is pretty good.He didn't have two of the better
perimeter shooters to pass the ball to for shots.

Until Terry actually fails at the PG spot next year he is
the starting PG.Vaughns mins declined as the season
wore on because he was not needed.

http://www.hawksquawk.net/forums/ubbthreads.php?Cat=&C=1

Now,you can come argue the point with us at Hawksquawk
if you would like.However,we probably should end the thread
here because it is starting to get alittle out of hand.It seems
you are growing frustrated and so am I.

Come argue about it over there is probably the better place as
as the mods don't want things to get out of hand here.

Good day Jazzy.


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## Hotlantadude198

http://mfile.akamai.com/3310/rm/sportnws.download.akamai.com/3310/i/media/audio/2/20020802/9919.ram

In there is were Kruger says that Terry is our starting
PG.It talks about the Robinson trade and it he makes
it clear who the starting PG is.

About 3 and a half minutes Lon says that Terry is starting
at the Point and Davis/DJ/Glover will be battling at the
two.Lon sounds pretty convinced to me.


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## jazzy1

HOTLANTA dude stop misleading the stats TERRY avg 19.3 ppg and 5.7 asst stop trying to support your argument with BOGUS STATS You're the 2nd person to use Bogus stats, Thats why I don't hardly ever use stats to support my argument because they're too easy to manipulate, Stop telling me about the 2nd half of the season stats they're irrelevant when the HAWKS were out of it. When I said they were fighting for LOTTO POSITION I WAS BEING SARCASTIC I FIGURED YOU WOULD HAVE KNOWN THAT,figuring that you'd know it's not possible to ACTUALLY FIGHT FOR LOTTO POSITION oh well I guess it went over your head like most of my argument has, You're a classicEdit . You can't defend yoyur point with out being concilliatory about some points especially when it comes to teams and players that are not very good, EXAMPLE I LOVE THE WIZARDS I can argue how good those players are but I have to keep in mind they were in the LOTTERY and none of the players except Jordan are among the Elite or allstar caliber players that's reality can't argue it as if they're HALL OF FAMERS just because they are ONE OF MY FAVORITE TEAMS. 

I'll give you your point about KRUGER but I also know how much things can change before the season starts ,it still doesn't disprove the fact that they aren't happy with Terry and are shopping him they traded for a 1st rd pg that is a FACT NOT OPINION so they can't be all that overjoyed about TERRY

Man save me all the homer talk about building momentum for next season talk that's crap ,REMEMBER I"M A WIZARD FAN I know about that old building for next year hype it's always said and never done, I belive players play for stats ,Pride, and money when they can't win so all that not tanking talk means very little point is still the same when it counted he didn't play that well, and PLEAS DON'T MAKE ME BRING UP THE TURNOVERS, 

Last paragraph totally edited by Shadows. No need to attack an entire fan base because you dissagree with someone. Please try to keep your negative opinions about the Hawks to yourself. Thank you


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## Hotlantadude198

with Terry and are shopping him they traded "

Who said we was shopping him?That's right...The
NY media....they don't count.Go ask Kevin McHale
what he thinks of the NY media...Our gm said at
the Big Dog press conference he had NO INTENTION
OF TRADING Terry.Sorry I don't have a link this
time but even if I did you would try and come up
with something to deny it.

I know 10 assist 4 out of 5 games is the type of
(no meaning.lol)stat every PG wants to have.Once
again,you have no legit arguement.

"REMEMBER I"M A WIZARD FAN I know about that old 
building for next year hype it's always said and never
done,"

Don't take this personal but it is not the same.We have
a history of getting to the playoffs the last 17 years and
from 1985-1998 we had a losing record only once.We
don't like having losing record and we tolorate it alot 
less than the Wiz team has over the last 13 years.ANd
the fact that the Hawks players are doing the extra
work to be ready for the seasons SHOWS how bad they
want to make the playoffs.The 3 day workouts as a team
per month is more than any other team is doing at the
present time.These type of things show players want to
win.Shareef promising the playoffs at the last home game
last year shows he wants to win.Sadly most teams have
to rebuild and that has been what has been going on
the last 3 seasons.

"PLEAS DON'T MAKE ME BRING UP THE TURNOVERS"

The TO's.JT's?Did you read what I said before?JT's
TO's were under 3 per game.Francis averages near
4 turnovers a game.Why don't you talk about his?
You seem to find flaws that aren't there.I gave you
the link to listen to what Kruger said.Notice he almost
acted like Dan didn't exsist.

Like I said,attacking our fan base is rather sad.The
fans over at Hawksquawk are smart people.As I said
before,most of them have been watch since Tree
Rollins/John Drew/Don Roundfield/Doc Rivers/John
Battle and others.These guys know basketball.Jay
Walker is allowed even at the press conference.He
has ALOT of inside info about the team.He is basically
the only real writer we have.

"I guess it went over your head like most of my argument
has, You're a classicEdit ."

The point is you are clearly losing the arguements.Those stats
mean nothing?Go talk to Boston about the momentum they
built prior to last season finishing the season before with a
winning record after O'Brien took over as a head coach.Ask
Boston Celtic fans about that.I doubt they will tell you that
2nd half was meaningless to their sucess last year.I also
believe the Mavs(Who had been losing for 11 seasons)
put momentum together and finished the season at .500
prior to their playoff run.

"they traded for a 1st rd pg that is a FACT NOT OPINION so 
they can't be all that overjoyed about TERRY"

You are assuming things.Where is your inside info as to why
we traded for Dan?Lon likes small ball and will use Dickau/
Terry in the manner that the Kings use Bibby/Jackson.If you
look real hard at our roster I think it's clear to see that we
are going to make a attempt to have offensive ball club
and run our team sorta like the Kings.Who knows?If it works
it might even get the EC out of this drag out the games
type of thing.I expect us to get about 6-7 in the east
playing a good offensive game.

You can continue to assume if you want to do that.However,
I'll listen to what comes out of the coaches and GM's mouth
and what I have seen this season.Everytime a fan assumes
things like as to why we traded for Dan it is often the exact
opposite of what people think.When you have a guy like
Terry that plays 2 positions well why not play him in both
roles?AT TIMES a Dickau/Terry backcourt can be very
effective.It's simple,we bring in Dan/JT/Dermarr/SAR/Theo
at times so that we can play a faster tempo.That team can
run the floor as good or better than any team in the east.

I'm backing up my points.I'm not trying to turn this into a
deeply heated arguement and honestly....I'm rather tired
of this suject.Lon Kruger said JT is the starting PG and gave NO
hint that Dickau even has a legit chance at the spot.He barely
even even mentioned him.He made it pretty clear who the
starting PG is.

I have nothing futher to say here.I gave proof,you want to
blow it off and assume things.Nobody is changing their
mind here and this is just going to continue for way to
long.If proof isn't enough to convince you I am wasting
my time.If Dickau is as good as people believe then a
DIckau/Terry temporary backcourt can do lots of damage.

There is no opinion here.Terry is the starting PG.It was made
clear by our own coach.Dickau is a change of pace PG.He
will be brought in to push the ball up the floor more.Terry
plays the PG in a more halfcourt manner while we expect
to bring in Dan to push the ball in a uptempo game just
like we did with Jacque Vaughn(although his minutes decreased
due to Terry improving even more)

I've made my points and have gave proof to support me.Your
mind isn't going to change and neither is mine.But I will be
correct once the season starts and Terry is running the show
and Dickau is coming in as a Bobby Jackson type of backup.

I'm not going to bother reading this thread again because I've
proved all I need to prove and I know I am right because it
came from the own coaching staff.You will see about Jan
when we are hitting our stride(I expect us to get off to
a medicore start due to all the new players)


Good Day Jazzy.Good luck on your Wizards this year and I
hope you guys get the team headed in the right direction.


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