# OT: Would Isiah Thomas harass this woman?



## Talkhard (May 13, 2003)

An ex-Knicks employee named Browne Sanders is suing Isiah Thomas for sexual harassment, but can she be believed? Take a look at the picture below. Personally, I can't see it myself, unless Isiah was absolutely desperate. What do you think, yes or no?










http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2305164


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## Blazerfan024 (Aug 15, 2003)

I say she got fired and was not happy about it and is now trying to collect money. IMO


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## Xericx (Oct 29, 2004)

She looks like a man, so yes....Isiah would harass her.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

Talkhard said:


> An ex-Knicks employee named Browne Sanders is suing Isiah Thomas for sexual harassment, but can she be believed? Take a look at the picture below. Personally, I can't see it myself, unless Isiah was absolutely desperate. What do you think, yes or no?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


you do realize that looks don't always have anything to do with sexual harassment, right? And that because you or I don't find her attractive, doesn't mean HE didn't, or other men don't. 

jeesh, that's like saying a women 'deserved' to be raped because of the type of clothes she wore.


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## Talkhard (May 13, 2003)

> you do realize that looks don't always have anything to do with sexual harassment, right? And that because you or I don't find her attractive, doesn't mean HE didn't, or other men don't.


Gee, Hap, I never even considered that! What was I thinking?!! Thank goodness we have people like you on this board who can educate us all about the more intellecutally challenging aspects of life. 



> jeesh, that's like saying a women 'deserved' to be raped because of the type of clothes she wore.


Yep, it's exactly like that. Again, thank you for your keen observations.


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## Scout226 (Sep 17, 2003)

Talkhard said:


> Gee, Hap, I never even considered that! What was I thinking?!! Thank goodness we have people like you on this board who can educate us all about the more intellecutally challenging aspects of life.
> 
> 
> Yep, it's exactly like that. Again, thank you for your keen observations.



Well, based on your original post, Haps response is fitting.


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## blue32 (Jan 13, 2006)

good lord, that's funny! 

I've been reading this board a lot longer than posting or signing up for that matter, but damnit, me thinks you're onto something!


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## Paxil (Jan 1, 2003)

"The lawsuit also alleges that Thomas told Browne Sanders he was pushing for more home games at noon on Sundays. His plan, according to Browne Sanders, was to have opposing players go to certain clubs, including strip clubs, that Thomas had connections with on Saturday nights and get them drunk so they would be sluggish for the game the next day."

Good lord if that is true... that is weak.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

Talkhard said:


> Gee, Hap, I never even considered that! What was I thinking?!! Thank goodness we have people like you on this board who can educate us all about the more intellecutally challenging aspects of life.
> 
> 
> Yep, it's exactly like that. Again, thank you for your keen observations.


considering your original post basically sounded like the following

"hm..she ugly. no man sexually harass her unless desperate! she in it for money! look at her! she ugly! she be lucky if man pay attention to her! she deserve it! Me Grimlock!"

what do you think other people thought about your post? Your post came off very ignorant to sexual harassment as a whole, and quite sexist.


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## crandc (Sep 15, 2004)

Obviously none of us know what happened, but this looks like another of a certain (ahem) poster's feeble attempts to build himself up by insulting others. We already had around 14 pages of his garbage before it faded out. 
Zidane, who admits to being 14, shows more maturity.


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## It's_GO_Time (Oct 13, 2005)

I thought it was making light of a story about sexual harassment. It was not politcally correct, but personally I don't care. It made me chuckle, but I could see how others might get upset. It certainly is easier taking the high moral road and saying how wrong that implication was . . . so TH I would bail out at this point. 

I also hope your not running for political office anytime soon. : )


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

crandc said:


> Obviously none of us know what happened, *but this looks like another of a certain (ahem) poster's feeble attempts to build himself up by insulting others*. We already had around 14 pages of his garbage before it faded out.
> Zidane, who admits to being 14, shows more maturity.


little bit of self criticism here...the bolded part has been be said of me tho.


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## MARIS61 (Apr 28, 2003)

At least 1 person who knows him well isn't leaping to his defense:

"I've known him since I tried to recruit him in high school and he's a phenomenal human being," Knicks coach Larry Brown said. "And the Knicks have always treated me well, so I guess I'll let it play itself out."

Sounds like LB thinks it's entirely possible that it's true.


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## ProudBFan (Apr 29, 2003)

The entire premise of this thread is insulting.

PBF


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## RPCity (Aug 29, 2005)

Her name isn't Browne Sanders.....Its Anucha Browne-Sanders. Just to clarify that.

And she was the Exec. VP of Marketing for the Knicks. Not exactly some money hungry groupie.


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## MARIS61 (Apr 28, 2003)

ProudBFan said:


> The entire premise of this thread is insulting.
> 
> PBF


Which premise?


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## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

MARIS61 said:


> Which premise?


Probably the one that seem to be, "If you're ugly, you can't possibly have been sexually arassed."

Sexual harassment isn't about sex. It's about power. Knowing a little about Isaih Thomas' personality, I find it fairly believable that he might have sexually harassed someone.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

MARIS61 said:


> At least 1 person who knows him well isn't leaping to his defense:
> 
> "I've known him since I tried to recruit him in high school and he's a phenomenal human being," Knicks coach Larry Brown said. "And the Knicks have always treated me well, so I guess I'll let it play itself out."
> 
> Sounds like LB thinks it's entirely possible that it's true.


maybe I missunderstood what the quote is meaning, but it does sound like Larry Brown is defending him. Calling him a "phenomenal human being" sounds like he's defending him.

Or were you being sarcastic?


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## ProudBFan (Apr 29, 2003)

Fork said:


> Probably the one that seem to be, "If you're ugly, you can't possibly have been sexually arassed."
> 
> Sexual harassment isn't about sex. It's about power. Knowing a little about Isaih Thomas' personality, I find it fairly believable that he might have sexually harassed someone.


Especially someone not stunningly beautiful.

BTW, pictures sometimes make people appear more/less attractive than they really are in person.

PBF


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## MARIS61 (Apr 28, 2003)

Hap said:


> maybe I missunderstood what the quote is meaning, but it does sound like Larry Brown is defending him. Calling him a "phenomenal human being" sounds like he's defending him.
> 
> Or were you being sarcastic?


I felt LB completely sidestepped the issue by being evasive. "I'll let it play itself out" sounds like LB wants no part of defending Thomas. He says "The Knicks" have always treated me well.


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## SodaPopinski (Aug 10, 2004)

Posts like this set gender relations back about 50 years. Unbelievable.

[sarcasm]Maybe the bigger question is why this woman had a high-ranking job for a sports franchise. Shouldn't she have been home making sure the kids were OK and getting dinner ready for her husband?[/sarcasm]

-Pop


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

MARIS61 said:


> I felt LB completely sidestepped the issue by being evasive. "I'll let it play itself out" sounds like LB wants no part of defending Thomas. He says "The Knicks" have always treated me well.



ooh, ok. I see where you're coming from. There's probably some validity in what you said, in that he didn't go out of his way (at least from that quote) to defend him. Good point.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

ProudBFan said:


> Especially someone not stunningly beautiful.
> 
> BTW, pictures sometimes make people appear more/less attractive than they really are in person.
> 
> PBF


*ping*
Not saying Howie is attractive in Person, but thank god he doesn't look like this









ooops, that's my ugly mug.










some women don't picture well. I distinctly remember a couple from my younger days that looked a lot better in person than in pictures. If you showed people their pictures, and then them in person, you'd almost see a different person.


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## Blazer Ringbearer (Jan 28, 2003)

Talkhard said:


> An ex-Knicks employee named Browne Sanders is suing Isiah Thomas for sexual harassment, but can she be believed? Take a look at the picture below. Personally, I can't see it myself, unless Isiah was absolutely desperate. What do you think, yes or no?


You're like a moral beacon of light. I wish I could be just like you... 

And you wonder why nobody takes your self-righteous rants seriously. Gross.


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## Zybot (Jul 22, 2004)

Let me step over all of the sexist tones and add that I think that the Knicks have problems here. They fired her after they determined that her claims of sexual harassment could not be substantiated??? Sounds like retaliation to me. Secondly, I still do not see why she would make this up. I guess I take the same approach as LB and say, let's see how it all plays out.


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## It's_GO_Time (Oct 13, 2005)

Zybot said:


> Secondly, I still do not see why she would make this up. I guess I take the same approach as LB and say, let's see how it all plays out.



I obviously don't know what happened. But I can think of rea$$$$ons she would make this up.


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## crandc (Sep 15, 2004)

SodaPopinski said:


> Posts like this set gender relations back about 50 years. Unbelievable.
> 
> 
> -Pop


Thankfully, Pop, it takes more than stupid sexist posts to do that. A powerful president and a weak congress and a compliant supreme court, maybe, but a jerky post?

All the posts prove is that some people are prejudiced not out of ignorance but out of need, you know, "I'm straight, I'm male, I'm white, I'm Christian, therefore I know I'm better"


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

Talkhard said:


> Gee, Hap, I never even considered that! What was I thinking?!! Thank goodness we have people like you on this board who can educate us all about the more intellecutally challenging aspects of life.


Why are you being sarcastic? The entire point of your original post was that Thomas wasn't likely to have sexually harassed the woman because she was ugly in your opinion. So, either you hadn't considered what Hap said or you pretended you hadn't.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

Kiss_My_Darius said:


> I obviously don't know what happened. But I can think of rea$$$$ons she would make this up.


she wants to spell words with a dollar sign instead of an s?


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## Talkhard (May 13, 2003)

> Sexual harassment isn't about sex. It's about power.


That's such a cliche. Men don't sexually harass women unless they're attracted to them. What would be the point? If you just wanted to exercise your "power" over a woman, you could make her work longer hours, or move her desk to a dark corner of the office, or find fault with her job performance. But you wouldn't be putting the moves on her unless you thought she was attractive. 



> Knowing a little about Isaih Thomas' personality, I find it fairly believable that he might have sexually harassed someone.


Interesting. You're very touchy about anything slightly "sexist," but you have no problem suggesting that Thomas is guilty, even though you don't know the facts.


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

Anyone think about the fact that sexual harassment doesn't always have to do with flirting, or sexual implications. It can also relate to sewxism in the workplace.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

Talkhard said:


> That's such a cliche. Men don't sexually harass women unless they're attracted to them. What would be the point?


hm...I believe there is some truth to that, but not to the degree you think. I'm sure there are guys who sexuall harass women who they find attractive. There's also varying degree's of whats "sexual harassment". In some cases, it could be that a guy is attracted to a women, and doesn't have the social skills necessary to understand there are boundaries you don't cross (as in, don't grab her ***, or make sexually suggestive comments).

In some cases, usually younger guys, we're just idiots who don't know any better.

However, all that said, a lot of sexual harassment has nothing to do with the act of sex, but control. It's the same reason why a lot of things happen, control.

Let's be honest, a lot of guys would have relations with a couch if it was properly plumbed (thats a reference to an old jok, btw). 

But to suggest that men don't sexually harass women they're not attracted too is quite odd. As I said, it's true in some cases, but in others as I also stated, it's not about sex but control.


> If you just wanted to exercise your "power" over a woman, you could make her work longer hours, or move her desk to a dark corner of the office, or find fault with her job performance. But you wouldn't be putting the moves on her unless you thought she was attractive.


it's not all about "putting the moves on her". like when a man rapes a women (altho the two aren't of the same degree of horrible things to do) it rarely if ever, has anything to do with attractiveness or how sexual she is. Now, of course as I said earlier, attractivness does play a role in some cases of sexual harassment, but not to the finite degree you're implying.

btw, I suggest this reading. government web page


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## crandc (Sep 15, 2004)

Well, let's see. Infants are raped, 100 year old women in nursing homes are raped, comatose patients are raped, homeless dirty drug addicts are raped. Gee, why would any man want to rape someone who wasn't Miss America?
It's called woman hating. Something Talkhard knows a lot about, apparently.


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## SheedSoNasty (Dec 31, 2002)

I've heard a few times that Thomas was gay. Not sure if it's true or not... I guess not if this is true.


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## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

Talkhard said:


> That's such a cliche. Men don't sexually harass women unless they're attracted to them. What would be the point? If you just wanted to exercise your "power" over a woman, you could make her work longer hours, or move her desk to a dark corner of the office, or find fault with her job performance. But you wouldn't be putting the moves on her unless you thought she was attractive.


You need to be educated. Please bone up on some facts:

http://www.eeoc.gov/facts/fs-sex.html

Unwelcome sexual advances, requests for sexual favors, and other *verbal or physical conduct of a sexual nature constitutes sexual harassment when submission to or rejection of this conduct * explicitly or implicitly affects an individual's employment, *unreasonably interferes with an individual's work performance or creates an intimidating, hostile or offensive work environment.* 

So, basically, it doesn't matter if he's physically attracted to her. Let's say he decided to give here a 'cute' nickname. He starts calling her 'slut' one day. She tells him to stop. He doesn't. Let's say she found that to be offensive and it affected her work atmosphere negatively. That's sexual harassment. He wouldn't have to be attracted to her in the least. In fact, it seems like it'd be slightly more likely to happen if he WASN'T attracted to her.


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## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

crandc said:


> Well, let's see. Infants are raped, 100 year old women in nursing homes are raped, comatose patients are raped, homeless dirty drug addicts are raped. Gee, why would any man want to rape someone who wasn't Miss America?
> It's called woman hating. Something Talkhard knows a lot about, apparently.


Is that Chris Dudley in your avatar?


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

Talkhard said:


> That's such a cliche. Men don't sexually harass women unless they're attracted to them. What would be the point?


Humans are still affected by primal desires (if not, sexual attraction would not be such a powerful motivator). Sexual dominance is a primal way for men to assert power over women. Or even over other men, if women aren't around. Why do you think prison rape is such an issue? Men suddenly become attracted to other men when they become locked up? Some of it is sexual release, but a lot of it is asserting dominance, an enormous part of prison culture.



> If you just wanted to exercise your "power" over a woman, you could make her work longer hours, or move her desk to a dark corner of the office, or find fault with her job performance.


Those are done also. There's no either/or here. There are multiple levels and avenues of asserting power. Sexual harrassment is one. Discrimination is another.


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## Talkhard (May 13, 2003)

> Why are you being sarcastic?


Because I'm always amused by the politically correct attack dogs. I'm also amused by the folks who think they are so much wiser and hipper when it comes to "gender" issues, as if anyone so unenlighted as to make such a post would surely have not considered the larger moral and gender issues involved. God, it's enough to make you throw up. 

It's clear you can do a lot of things on this board. You can call John Nash a *deleted* idiot Not using masked cursing, you can't!, you can insult the intelligence of Maurice Cheeks, you can say hateful things about Kobe Bryant, but you can't make a joke at the expense of a woman. That's off limits! It's beyond the pale!

Someone even said that this thread has set gender relations back 50 years! BAAAWWWWWAAA!! That's one of the funniest things I've ever heard.

I'm just having fun. This whole thread is a joke, people. Get a life!!


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## SheedSoNasty (Dec 31, 2002)

Fork said:


> Is that Chris Dudley in your avatar?


I've thought the exact same thing!


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## SheedSoNasty (Dec 31, 2002)

Talkhard said:


> I'm just having fun. This whole thread is a joke, people. Get a life!!


So, you're like the guy at a wedding that tries to tell a really bad joke in poor taste and gets no laughs? I get what you're going for.


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## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

I like a good joke as much as the next guy. Maybe more even. This wasn't funny.


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## Talkhard (May 13, 2003)

Not amusing, eh, SheedSoNasty? Better check out what blue32 said:



> good lord, that's funny!


Or how 'bout Kiss_my_Darius:



> It was not politcally correct, but personally I don't care. It made me chuckle . . .


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## It's_GO_Time (Oct 13, 2005)

crandc said:


> Well, let's see. Infants are raped, 100 year old women in nursing homes are raped, comatose patients are raped, homeless dirty drug addicts are raped. Gee, why would any man want to rape someone who wasn't Miss America?
> It's called woman hating. Something Talkhard knows a lot about, apparently.



Although I know you know a lot about this topic, I think you are off point here. Boys and men are also raped, is that man hating?

I don't think harassment is about hating as much as power and/or sexual desire.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

Talkhard said:


> It's clear you can do a lot of things on this board. You can call John Nash a f------ idiot, you can insult the intelligence of Maurice Cheeks, you can say hateful things about Kobe Bryant, but you can't make a joke at the expense of a woman. That's off limits! It's beyond the pale!


Well... speaking as an outsider, this is a Blazers basketball forum... some woman suing Isaiah Thomas doesn't seem to have a hell of a lot to do with it.

That doesn't make it inappropriate per se, but people come here to talk about Blazers basketball, not to engage in debates polite behavior.



> I'm just having fun. This whole thread is a joke, people. Get a life!!


I don't think it was very funny, and judging from the responses, no one else did either. And since I don't think you're dumb, I think you knew you'd be ticking a bunch of people off by starting this thread. It seems to me you were using the opportunity to pick a fight. That's boorish in itself, never mind the content (which was also boorish).

So how about we just be cool to one another and not go picking fights about stuff that doesn't even have anything to do with the topic at hand? I don't think that's too much to ask.


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## Talkhard (May 13, 2003)

> I don't think it was very funny, and judging from the responses, no one else did either.


Uh, wrong. Check my post above.



> people come here to talk about Blazers basketball, not to engage in debates polite behavior.


Huh? Not sure what you're saying, but this thread already has over 40 posts. It's clear that people on this board enjoy talking about things other than Blazers basketball. People make posts here all the time about other things going on around the NBA, and when a woman sues the GM of the New York Knicks, I think it's something that most NBA fans (including Blazer fans) would be interested in.



> It seems to me you were using the opportunity to pick a fight.


Excuse me? Half the threads on this board are picking a fight in one way or another. Lots of people intentionally post provocative thread titles to get people to "engage" them in discussion. This is true of basketball threads as well as all other kinds.


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## It's_GO_Time (Oct 13, 2005)

Mikedc said:


> It seems to me you were using the opportunity to pick a fight. That's boorish in itself, never mind the content (which was also boorish).
> 
> So how about we just be cool to one another and not go picking fights about stuff that doesn't even have anything to do with the topic at hand? I don't think that's too much to ask.


So you blast the poster making accusations and calling him boorish, and then ask to be cool to one another and not pick fights?

If your intent was to stop the fighting, it could of been handled with a lot more discretion.


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## RPCity (Aug 29, 2005)

Kiss_My_Darius said:


> I obviously don't know what happened. But I can think of rea$$$$ons she would make this up.


The woman was the Executive Vice President of Marketing for one of the three largest NBA Franchises in the country....heck...maybe one of the 5 largest sports franchises in the world! 

Yet she's going to make up this story, cost herself her job, and then sue because she wants money????


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

Talkhard said:


> Not amusing, eh, SheedSoNasty? Better check out what blue32 said:
> 
> 
> Or how 'bout Kiss_my_Darius:


you were trying to be funny to make light of the situation (as in, "she's just an ugly girl who never got dates" ). 

Plus, I'm not sure if the two posts you quoted are exactly proof that people thought you were kidding, or that it's was infact funny. 

If you were being funny, you might've tried adding a little hint here and there (usually a smilie face will do, but in this case, actually being funny would've been a good start).

OR you might've responded to the first that took it seriously and said something along the lines of "woah, sorry man. I thought people would've seen I was trying to be a little funny".

but you didn't. you just further projected what you were saying over and over, further digging your own metaphysical grave, and then finally saying "oh hey I was kidding".

meanwhile, no one laughed. I think the wedding example is perfect. It's like the uncle who gets the mic and starts cracking about the bride, saying how she's a tramp, and how your nephew picked a good one, she has "good birthing hips" and looks like she can 'stand a long time in the kitchen, poppin out kids". And then when no one laughs, and infact, people are quite embarassed for you and mad at you, you pull out the oldest trick in the book. 

Ha! I was kidding, and you guys just are too serious to realize it!!!

HA!

yah. sure. I guess the thread about larry miller was also a joke too, huh?


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## Talkhard (May 13, 2003)

Geez, Hap, ever think about getting down off your moral high horse? Don't you ever get tired of listening to yourself?


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

Kiss_My_Darius said:


> So you blast the poster making accusations and calling him boorish, and then ask to be cool to one another and not pick fights?
> 
> If your intent was to stop the fighting, it could of been handled with a lot more discretion.


OK, I'm not trying to "blast" anyone, but I think I'm pretty accurate in my assessment of what was going on. Sorry if I handled it poorly and I didn't mean any grave insult.

What I do mean is that when we (the staff) get complaints about a thread, and we see it and it appears to be 1) off topic, and 2) intended to just pick a fight, then it appears to be disruptive. 

If people want to argue, that's cool, but there's an OT forum here, and after reading the reaction and making a decision about what I think the intent was here, I think this thread belongs in the OT forum. That way you guys can go at it (again, within the other rules!) and the guys who are not coming here to debate the causes of sexual abuse don't have it thrown in their faces.

I understand I'm not a regular here, so if one of the Blazers mods/CMs wants to move it back or handle it differently then I'm perfectly happy for them to do that.


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## It's_GO_Time (Oct 13, 2005)

RPCity said:


> The woman was the Executive Vice President of Marketing for one of the three largest NBA Franchises in the country....heck...maybe one of the 5 largest sports franchises in the world!
> 
> Yet she's going to make up this story, cost herself her job, and then sue because she wants money????



Are you kidding me? Why do CEOs of companies making seven figures defraud wall street? People, with or without money, do some crazy things for money. Did Martha Stewart risk her whole career to make a little money on the stock market and then lie to the feds about it?

I'm not saying she made this up, but I know there are plenty of motives to fabricate sexual harassment . . . I also know there is also plenty cases of sexual harassment that occurs in this country.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

Talkhard said:


> Because I'm always amused by the politically correct attack dogs. I'm also amused by the folks who think they are so much wiser and hipper when it comes to "gender" issues, as if anyone so unenlighted as to make such a post would surely have not considered the larger moral and gender issues involved.


But your initial post _didn't_ consider any larger moral or gender issues. As I said, the entire point of your post was, "She's ugly, how could she have been sexually harrassed?"

If you post something so simplistic and uneducated, shouldn't you expect responses that point that out?



> It's clear you can do a lot of things on this board. You can call John Nash a f------ idiot, you can insult the intelligence of Maurice Cheeks, you can say hateful things about Kobe Bryant, but you can't make a joke at the expense of a woman. That's off limits! It's beyond the pale!


You didn't merely make a "joke at the expense of a woman." You trivialized a fairly prevalant social problem, sexual harrassment, as something that can only be linked to beauty. You imply that any person you deem ugly must be faking if she alleges sexual harrassment. There's also something distasteful about making a joke about a possible victim...something Nash, Cheeks or Bryant generally aren't when they're made fun of.


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## Talkhard (May 13, 2003)

> I understand I'm not a regular here, so if one of the Blazers mods/CMs wants to move it back or handle it differently then I'm perfectly happy for them to do that.


If you're not a Blazer moderator, why are you touching this thread at all? Shouldn't the moderators who run the board and know us all be making these kinds of decisions?


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

Talkhard said:


> Geez, Hap, ever think about getting down off your moral high horse? Don't you ever get tired of listening to yourself?


wow...who's the one who's brought up the bible in reference to their opinion of gays? If that's not the biggest pile of...

ooh, you were joking again. I see. good one.


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## Talkhard (May 13, 2003)

> You didn't merely make a "joke at the expense of a woman." You trivialized a fairly prevalant social problem, sexual harrassment, as something that can only be linked to beauty. You imply that any person you deem ugly must be faking if she alleges sexual harrassment. There's also something distasteful about making a joke about a possible victim...something Nash, Cheeks or Bryant generally aren't when they're made fun of.


Holy crap. I "trivialized a fairly prevalant social problem"!! God forgive me. And I violated a "possible victim's" rights! Yikes, what could I have been thinking?! You ever watch Saturday Night Live? Almost all they do is make fun of "victims" and other sacred cows. You really have to lighten up.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Talkhard said:


> If you're not a Blazer moderator, why are you touching this thread at all? Shouldn't the moderators who run the board and know us all be making these kinds of decisions?



Because he has the power to do so and this whole board is well within his jurisdiction...


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## SodaPopinski (Aug 10, 2004)

Talkhard said:


> Holy crap. I "trivialized a fairly prevalant social problem"!! God forgive me. And I violated a "possible victim's" rights! Yikes, what could I have been thinking?! You ever watch Saturday Night Live? Almost all they do is make fun of "victims" and other sacred cows. You really have to lighten up.


Your problem is that you've established a reputation for this sort of right-wing reactionary, baiting posts, so was it completely off-base for members of this board to think you actually believe that "ugly women cannot be sexually harassed"? Furthermore, your subsequent posts in this thread reveal you were arguing your point even after your first post. I think it's much more reasonable to think you truly believe "ugly women can't be sexually harassed," but backtracked and threw out the ol' "I was just joking and poking fun at political correctness" to cover for yourself once your opinion was lambasted for being archaic and ignorant.

And when I said "posts like this set gender relations back 50 years" I was referring to the fact that so many people have worked hard to establish a more equal footing for men and women, and when neanderthals make comments like yours, it seems like we're back in the '40s and '50s (i.e. 50 years ago).

-Pop


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

Talkhard said:


> Holy crap. I "trivialized a fairly prevalant social problem"!! God forgive me. And I violated a "possible victim's" rights! Yikes, what could I have been thinking?!


Your maturity continues to be a source of inspiration. I guess as long as you invoke the name of the Bible several times a day, you can skip all that "trying to be a better person" nonsense that religion generally aims for.

Also, I never said you violated her rights.


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## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

Talkhard said:


> Geez, Hap, ever think about getting down off your moral high horse?


Pot - meet kettle.

You're the biggest moralizer on this board.


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## RipCity9 (Jan 30, 2004)

> what do you think other people thought about your post? Your post came off very ignorant to sexual harassment as a whole, and quite sexist.


I agree. Without wading through the entire thread, I would have posted the same thing had I gotten to it first. Embarassing really.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Minstrel said:


> Your maturity continues to be a source of inspiration. *I guess as long as you invoke the name of the Bible several times a day, you can skip all that "trying to be a better person" nonsense that religion generally aims for.*
> 
> Also, I never said you violated her rights.



Good stuff...


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## endora60 (Jan 5, 2006)

Talkhard said:


> An ex-Knicks employee named Browne Sanders is suing Isiah Thomas for sexual harassment, but can she be believed? Take a look at the picture below. Personally, I can't see it myself, unless Isiah was absolutely desperate. What do you think, yes or no?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Honestly, I'm trying to picture Isaiah Thomas sexually harrassing any woman, and I can't do it. Maybe he was so drunk he didn't know what he did last night.

If he did do this, Thomas should lose his job.

Laurie


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## Talkhard (May 13, 2003)

> was it completely off-base for members of this board to think you actually believe that "ugly women cannot be sexually harassed"?


Who the heck cares?! I happen to think that it IS less likely for ugly women to be harassed, although I didn't say that the woman accusing Thomas is ugly. I also think that a guy as good looking, rich, powerful, and famous as Isiah Thomas doesn't have to resort to sexually harassing a slighly overweight married woman and mother of 3 from New Jersey. That's all. The guy could be dating a boatload of beautiful women if he wanted to, so why would he be making passes at this woman? It just doesn't make a whole lot of sense. What amazes me is the way people get so worked up when you touch a sacred cow like "sexual harassment."



> So many people have worked hard to establish a more equal footing for men and women, and when neanderthals make comments like yours, it seems like we're back in the '40s and '50s (i.e. 50 years ago).


Gee, I'm sorry. By the way, have you ever noticed that men get made fun of all the time in TV commercials and sitcoms? It's either the guy who refuses to read a map when he's lost, or the guy who just sits around and watches TV all the time, or the guy who has no fashion sense, etc., etc. Why aren't you upset about these negative sterotypes of men that are constantyly being reinforced in the culture? When I see them, it seems like we're back in the 40's and 50's.


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## handclap problematic (Nov 6, 2003)

So, um HOW BOUT THEM BLAZERS?


And, this is a serious allegation for someone like Isiah. If proven to be true, he could end up losing his job in all actuality.... I know that is what would happen in most working environments. There is usually a ZERO tolerance policy when it comes to things like this.

Prunetang


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## endora60 (Jan 5, 2006)

Hap said:


> considering your original post basically sounded like the following
> 
> "hm..she ugly. no man sexually harass her unless desperate! she in it for money! look at her! she ugly! she be lucky if man pay attention to her! she deserve it! Me Grimlock!"


Grimlock's actually a very sensitive soul. Anybody who can become Computron wouldn't say something like that.

Laurie


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Sexual harrasment isn't really a "sacred crow", but when you approach it the way you did its going to turn heads..


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## The Sebastian Express (Mar 3, 2005)

You tried to make fun of a person at the expense of them feeling humiliated and harassed.

Sexual harassment is a very serious matter. Rape is a very serious matter. What you did was in bad taste. 

Then, you attempted to suggest that only women who men are attracted to are raped/assaulted. That a woman that men may not find attractive has no basis to their claims.

When I was in eighth grade, my Bible teacher told a classroom full of thirty girls that fifty percent of the time it is a woman's fault she is raped. Do you understand how insane that is?

It is never, ever anyone's fault they are raped. No means no, get off me means get off me. Rape and harassment are about a few things:

Intimidation.
Power.
Control.


This is why women who are sweaty, dirty and in jogging clothes get raped. This is why old people get raped. This is why children get raped. Why patients in mental hospitals get raped.

Your attempt to make light of a very serious situation is disturbing, and shows a lack of respect for people who have encountered these situations. Additionally, your attempt to try to justify it by saying people on comedy shows such as SNL do it, is sad.

Rape, harassment, murder, abuse, or any other similiar circumstance is not a laughing matter. You should not belittle it by joking that the victim is obviously lying to get money, simply because she is not attractive as the women you like to put in your avatars.


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## SheedSoNasty (Dec 31, 2002)

Talkhard said:


> Geez, Hap, ever think about getting down off your moral high horse? Don't you ever get tired of listening to yourself?


I listened to Hap... or read the words that he typed... and I agree with him.


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## SheedSoNasty (Dec 31, 2002)

Talkhard said:


> Gee, I'm sorry. By the way, have you ever noticed that men get made fun of all the time in TV commercials and sitcoms? It's either the guy who refuses to read a map when he's lost, or the guy who just sits around and watches TV all the time, or the guy who has no fashion sense, etc., etc. Why aren't you upset about these negative sterotypes of men that are constantyly being reinforced in the culture? When I see them, it seems like we're back in the 40's and 50's.


Comparing sexual harassment to these things is ridiculous. Maybe you don't see the seriousness in such a subject, but at the very least you need to take a step back and evaluate what your definition of comedy is.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

endora60 said:


> Grimlock's actually a very sensitive soul. Anybody who can become Computron wouldn't say something like that.
> 
> Laurie


true, but they've ruined grimlock now and changed him into a car.


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## RPCity (Aug 29, 2005)

Kiss_My_Darius said:


> Are you kidding me? Why do CEOs of companies making seven figures defraud wall street? People, with or without money, do some crazy things for money. Did Martha Stewart risk her whole career to make a little money on the stock market and then lie to the feds about it?
> 
> I'm not saying she made this up, but I know there are plenty of motives to fabricate sexual harassment . . . I also know there is also plenty cases of sexual harassment that occurs in this country.


But this isn't some kind of a backroom deal that those CEOs never expect to be caught for. Nor is this some kind of an ongoing thing where she could gain large amounts of money from all sorts of sources over long periods of time, which was the case in most of the recent wall street scandals. 

This is a one time instance. If she's lying, she's going public and ruining her entire career. I'll bet dollars to donuts that for a person of her stature, she's not going to take that lightly. 

Let me be frank for a minute. Anucha Browne-Sanders is a middle aged African-American woman. With the extremely low level of female executives in the sports industry, and the suprisingly low amount of African-American executives in the sports industry, I'd be willing to guarantee you that she had to work darn hard and sacrifice to be able to make it to her position. I'd also guarantee that she's darn proud of it. Yet she'd throw all of that away for the chance to make a couple million bucks? It just doesn't seem to fit.


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## RPCity (Aug 29, 2005)

Talkhard said:


> Gee, I'm sorry. By the way, have you ever noticed that men get made fun of all the time in TV commercials and sitcoms? It's either the guy who refuses to read a map when he's lost, or the guy who just sits around and watches TV all the time, or the guy who has no fashion sense, etc., etc. Why aren't you upset about these negative sterotypes of men that are constantyly being reinforced in the culture? When I see them, it seems like we're back in the 40's and 50's.



Are you seriously making that comparison?


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

Talkhard said:


> Who the heck cares?! I happen to think that it IS less likely for ugly women to be harassed, although I didn't say that the woman accusing Thomas is ugly. I also think that a guy as good looking, rich, powerful, and famous as Isiah Thomas doesn't have to resort to sexually harassing a slighly overweight married woman and mother of 3 from New Jersey. That's all. The guy could be dating a boatload of beautiful women if he wanted to, so why would he be making passes at this woman? It just doesn't make a whole lot of sense. What amazes me is the way people get so worked up when you touch a sacred cow like "sexual harassment."


you're going too far to explain the humor in your original post.



> Gee, I'm sorry. By the way, have you ever noticed that men get made fun of all the time in TV commercials and sitcoms? It's either the guy who refuses to read a map when he's lost, or the guy who just sits around and watches TV all the time, or the guy who has no fashion sense, etc., etc. Why aren't you upset about these negative sterotypes of men that are constantyly being reinforced in the culture? When I see them, it seems like we're back in the 40's and 50's.


hm..which is worse...being called a gold digger, fat, ugly, and the only way a guy would hit on you is if he's desperate...or a guy who has no fashion sense, or can't/refuses to read a map?

hm...I wonder...


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## GrandpaBlaze (Jul 11, 2004)

Talkhard said:


> I didn't say that the woman accusing Thomas is ugly.


Hmmm, not in so many words, but you sure as heck implied it.



Talkhard said:


> can she be believed? Take a look at the picture below. Personally, I can't see it myself, unless Isiah was absolutely desperate.


It would seem you are trying to speak out of both sides of your mouth. Implying someone is ugly and then denying you said it brings to mind a situation I'm sure you seek to emulate; former president Clinton's "I never had sexual relations with that woman". Your "I didn't say she was ugly" rings about as true.

So what IS your political party? Taliban? You seem to grant women about the same credit and rights as they did.

Gramps...


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

Talkhard said:


> Gee, I'm sorry. By the way, have you ever noticed that men get made fun of all the time in TV commercials and sitcoms? It's either the guy who refuses to read a map when he's lost, or the guy who just sits around and watches TV all the time, or the guy who has no fashion sense, etc., etc. Why aren't you upset about these negative sterotypes of men that are constantyly being reinforced in the culture? When I see them, it seems like we're back in the 40's and 50's.


Except that those stereotypes of men don't actually limit what men can do, nor do they tacitly approve of men being limited in society or the workplace. Negative stereotypes of women, racial minorities, etc, _do_ reinforce/legitimize the discrimination those groups often find in society and the workplace.

Also, even if those stereotypes are unfair (and I agree that they are), it doesn't legitimize you being sexist (or racist, or homophobic).


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## RPCity (Aug 29, 2005)

Wow....and with that note....

Anyone else think that its about time we pile off of Talkhard on this one?


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## Target (Mar 17, 2004)

Paxil said:


> "The lawsuit also alleges that Thomas told Browne Sanders he was pushing for more home games at noon on Sundays. His plan, according to Browne Sanders, was to have opposing players go to certain clubs, including strip clubs, that Thomas had connections with on Saturday nights and get them drunk so they would be sluggish for the game the next day."
> 
> Good lord if that is true... that is weak.


Lakeridge was the school that played against Medford in the State football semi's in 81 and stayed at a hotel next to a resturant named Stanleys on Riverside in downtown Medford They discovered that chocolate laxative mixeswith chocolate pudding and ice cream well. This was according to a gf of mine who's sister was employed there at the time. Medford beat the favored Lakeridge 28-7.


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## Foulzilla (Jan 11, 2005)

Hap said:


> true, but they've ruined grimlock now and changed him into a car.


........ are you serious? :eek8: 

Heads will roll! :upset:


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

Foulzilla said:


> ........ are you serious? :eek8:
> 
> Heads will roll! :upset:


sadly, it's true


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## It's_GO_Time (Oct 13, 2005)

RPCity said:


> But this isn't some kind of a backroom deal that those CEOs never expect to be caught for. Nor is this some kind of an ongoing thing where she could gain large amounts of money from all sorts of sources over long periods of time, which was the case in most of the recent wall street scandals.
> 
> This is a one time instance. If she's lying, she's going public and ruining her entire career. I'll bet dollars to donuts that for a person of her stature, she's not going to take that lightly.
> 
> Let me be frank for a minute. Anucha Browne-Sanders is a middle aged African-American woman. With the extremely low level of female executives in the sports industry, and the suprisingly low amount of African-American executives in the sports industry, I'd be willing to guarantee you that she had to work darn hard and sacrifice to be able to make it to her position. I'd also guarantee that she's darn proud of it. Yet she'd throw all of that away for the chance to make a couple million bucks? It just doesn't seem to fit.


You're point is given who she is, she would not make this up. I think that is perfectly fair. These cases are often determined on credibility, and the factors you point out are relevant to determine credibility. (And, if she was sexually harassed, then by all means she should not let it rest and I suspect will be compensated in the millions for it.)

But couldn't you make that exact same argument on the other side. List all of Thomas' accomplishment and ask why he would partake in this conduct and risk everything he has achieved.

Also, I'm guessing Ms. Brown-Sanders is an aggressive business woman. She has achieved a lot. So when things don't go her way, and she gets despatate, she may be willing to play whatever card she needs to play to better her life. 

Knick's mangement sidde of the story is "These fabricated and outrageous charges come from an individual whom MSG fired because of an inability to fulfill professional responsibilities and who is now seeking a financial windfall," attorney Ron Green. 

But in the famous Blazer war cry, it's too early to really know what this is all about.


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## Talkhard (May 13, 2003)

> When I was in eighth grade, my Bible teacher told a classroom full of thirty girls that fifty percent of the time it is a woman's fault she is raped. Do you understand how insane that is?


Yes, but it has nothing to do with my argument. I never said the woman deserved to be harassed, I said it seemed unlikely that she had been.


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## Talkhard (May 13, 2003)

> Anyone else think that its about time we pile off of Talkhard on this one?


Nah, I'm having too much fun!


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## It's_GO_Time (Oct 13, 2005)

And let me just say how sorry I am I got wrapped up in all this. I knew from the get go this was going to be a loser argument with many emotions coming out. I'll stand by my original comment that the post didn't bother me and embarassly admit I chuckled at the post.

After reading all these posts I probably shouldn't have admitted I chuckled it and join the how wrong that post was movement. I'll go take a shower now.

Advise to TH out there: may day . . . may day . . . abort . . . abort . . .


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## RedHot&Rolling (Jun 26, 2004)

How did mixum start this trolling-affected thread anyhow????

Its all his fault.


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## Zybot (Jul 22, 2004)

Talkhard said:


> Nah, I'm having too much fun!


You enjoy having a bunch of men jumping on top of you???? Did you just watch Brokeback Mountain?


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## Talkhard (May 13, 2003)

> You enjoy having a bunch of men jumping on top of you????


Nah, I enjoy ruffling the feathers of the PC types.


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## The Sebastian Express (Mar 3, 2005)

So you admit you started this thread to cause chaos and grate people's nerves.


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## Target (Mar 17, 2004)

Talkhard you damned anarchist!!


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

Talkhard said:


> Nah, I enjoy ruffling the feathers of the PC types.


that's pretty sad if thats tue. also, I doubt thats actually your stance, because what good would it get out it? I could understand making statements that would be irking to the "PC types" (say, global warming, pollution, war in iraq, etc) but these kinds of comments are more offensive to people who are sensible, and practical. Nothing about what you said was feather ruffling to "PC" people. That's just a lame Rush Limbaughian type response when it become painfully obvious you stuck your foot firmly in your mouth, and now want an easy out.

And if it actually true that you did this just to pissed people off, you do realize that's considered baiting, and a suspendable offense, right?


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## It's_GO_Time (Oct 13, 2005)

Hap said:


> you do realize that's considered baiting, and a suspendable offense, right?



But what would this board have been today without TH's post? All Artest and Morrison talk . . .

There is a game tonight. After the game I'm guessing this thread moves it way to the bottom of the page and forgotten.


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## RPCity (Aug 29, 2005)

RedHot&Rolling said:


> How did mixum start this trolling-affected thread anyhow????
> 
> Its all his fault.


I blame John Nash.


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## RPCity (Aug 29, 2005)

Target said:


> Talkhard you damned anarchist!!



DAMN IT KING! THAT'S TALKHARD'S MUSIC!! THAT DAMN'D ANARCHIST! DAMN IT...IT JUST AIN'T RIGHT!


(Now this thread has wrestling and transformers references in it....I dont know what to make of that)


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

Kiss_My_Darius said:


> But what would this board have been today without TH's post? All Artest and Morrison talk . . .
> 
> There is a game tonight. After the game I'm guessing this thread moves it way to the bottom of the page and forgotten.


Ah yes, but without these threads, would we have ever learned that Adam Morrison is a gay homosexual cowboy who sexually harassed Isaiah Rider?


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

RPCity said:


> DAMN IT KING! THAT'S TALKHARD'S MUSIC!! THAT DAMN'D ANARCHIST! DAMN IT...IT JUST AIN'T RIGHT!
> 
> 
> (Now this thread has wrestling and transformers references in it....I dont know what to make of that)


TalkHARD
TalkHARD
TalkHARD!!

Talkhard 3:16 says I just whipped your ***!


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## SolidGuy3 (Apr 23, 2005)

I've always viewed Thomas as being a slick guy, his voice is so smooth. The woman probably didn't get hit on alot and misunderstood Thomas' words. He was just being nice.

Some things that he might have said that she took in a wrong way.

"Wow, your looking so beautiful today, is that a new perfume I smell?"

"Is it just me or have you lost some weight?"

"Hey want to get something to eat during lunch, I'll pay?"

"Here, let me help you with that."

"Your dress is so pretty, you have excellent taste."

Thomas always smiles when he talks and the woman took this the wrong way. I also think Thomas said these things to her while staring at her boobs sometimes because every guy does it. If I see a girl walking past me with a great rack and I would stare.

:banana:


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## RPCity (Aug 29, 2005)

Hap said:


> Ah yes, but without these threads, would we have ever learned that Adam Morrison is a gay homosexual cowboy who sexually harassed Isaiah Rider?


ZagsFan appearence in 3....2.....


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## It's_GO_Time (Oct 13, 2005)

SolidGuy3 said:


> I've always viewed Thomas as being a slick guy, his voice is so smooth. The woman probably didn't get hit on alot and misunderstood Thomas' words. He was just being nice.
> 
> Some things that he might have said that she took in a wrong way.
> 
> ...


"Is that a dancing banana on your screen or are you just happy to see me?"


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## Blazer Ringbearer (Jan 28, 2003)

Talkhard said:


> Nah, I enjoy ruffling the feathers of the PC types.


How old are you?


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## NBAGOD (Aug 26, 2004)

Of couse he did.....I have seen so called "character" players with wives and children hit on interns on the court before a game.....hit on employees behind the scenes....Mo Cheeks blatently hit on several Blazers employees in public in his first month on the job.....so called class acts like steve smith and scottie pippen (both married) chased everything with a skirt.....the only mystery is how Isiah somehow remains employed in the NBA...he is the single WORST executive in recent memory...even worse than steve patterson (and that's saying something)


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## Talkhard (May 13, 2003)

> I also think Thomas said these things to her while staring at her boobs sometimes because every guy does it. If I see a girl walking past me with a great rack and I would stare.


Watch it! That'll get you branded a "sexist" around here! Also, it's "breasts," not "rack." Please try to be more sensitive, because folks around here are easily upset by this kind of talk.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

Talkhard said:


> Watch it! That'll get you branded a "sexist" around here! Also, it's "breasts," not "rack." Please try to be more sensitive, because folks around here are easily upset by this kind of talk.


give it a rest, will you?


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