# john wall Vs. ricky rubio ******POLL******



## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

for the sake of discussion if nothing else, let's assume that john wall somehow enters the 2009 nba draft.....

let's say that you have the #2 overall pick, and your team's most urgent need is at the pg position.....


let's assume that the team with the #1 overall pick takes blake griffin, so you have your choice of ricky rubio or john wall.....who do you take???




personally, i would take john wall....rubio will have to adjust to the athleticism of the nba.....it's just not the same as he's used to.....john wall will also have to adjust, but he's blessed with exceptional athleticism and it wouldn't take long for him to adapt.....


i think that they both need to work on shooting, so they are about equal in that category.....but as of now, wall has a higher release point, and more consistent mechanics.....


defense, i think john wall can be significantly better than rubio due to his size, speed, and hops.....


handles, i think they can both get to any spot on the foor with the ball, but wall is faster with the ball.....


they are equal on the fastbreak, but since wall is faster with the ball, i think he has the advantage.....


scoring, no contest......john wall, and it's not even close......


passing/playmaking i think they are about even in this category......i have seen both make some extraordinary passes, and they both know how to get into the lane to collapse the defense and pass it to the open man for an easy bucket......


i think that you can't go wrong with either one, but wall is superior in almost every way......


and if you think that another pg besides wall or rubio would be the best choice, please vote "other" and write in your answer




thoughts and comments are welcome......*please don't forget to vote in the poll*.....


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## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

Ricky Rubio. 


Wall is out of control sometimes on the court and he has had some maturity/attitude issues. He may be more athletic but that won't make it an easier transition for him. Rubio has been playing against Professional players since he was 14, he knows and understands the work and maturity it takes to compete at a pro level. Not to mention he is a better passer, defender, and has a higher bball IQ than Wall. Rubio has the best feel for the game I have seen in a long time.


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

bball2223 said:


> Ricky Rubio.
> 
> 
> Wall is out of control sometimes on the court and he has had some maturity/attitude issues. He may be more athletic but that won't make it an easier transition for him. Rubio has been playing against Professional players since he was 14, he knows and understands the work and maturity it takes to compete at a pro level. Not to mention he is a better passer, defender, and has a higher bball IQ than Wall. Rubio has the best feel for the game I have seen in a long time.


this is good to know, because i am hoping that the clippers draft rubio if they get the #2 pick.....


but i have some points of contention......

i'm not sure that rubio is the better passer.....i have seen wall make a lot of great passes that rival the passes that rubio makes.....

and in terms of defense, rubio might get steals, but will he be able to stay in front of nba caliber point guards???? wall has the physical tools, and the smarts.......rubio might have the smarts, but not sure about former.....


and in terms of bball IQ, this is a totally subjective category......you can't really quantify "bball IQ"......i've seen rubio make some crazy plays, but he also turns the ball over at a very high rate......the same thing you say about wall being out of control, can be said about rubio.....


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## SheriffKilla (Jan 1, 2004)

I think Wall has more potential but Rubio is more of a sure thing, and since Im generally more of a safe bet guy I would take Rubio


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## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

bootstrenf said:


> i'm not sure that rubio is the better passer.....i have seen wall make a lot of great passes that rival the passes that rubio makes.....
> 
> and in terms of defense, rubio might get steals, but will he be able to stay in front of nba caliber point guards???? wall has the physical tools, and the smarts.......rubio might have the smarts, but not sure about former.....
> 
> ...



Rubio is the better passer, I have seen quite a bit of each and it's safe to say Rubio is better at passing the rock. 


Bball IQ isn't a subjective category. I seen Rubio run a Spanish national team like a 10 year NBA vet in the past Olympics against some of the best players in the world. If you put John Wall in that same spot Spain doesn't even make the Gold medal game worth watching. He makes the best decision almost every time. I see Wall going for flash over substance quite a bit and turning the ball over. That's bball IQ. 


Rubio can't stay in front of people? Yeah CP3 really made the kid look awful on defense in the gold medal game:tumbleweed: Rubio was staying in front and keeping with CP3 for much of the time he was guarding him. 


Wall is a better athlete and has a better handle other than that he has zero major advantages over Rubio. He may have better potential down the line, but Rubio is a more polished player and more of a sure thing at this point.


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## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

Jose Calderon or Derrick Rose...

You all are nuts


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## jman23 (Aug 13, 2007)

Ricky Rubio!!!!! he's amazing,he's like a magician with the ball,he just needs to work on his shot and he'll be unstoppable.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

I would take Wall without hesitation and then ask John Stockton to work with him in the summer. A guy with that kind of raw ability learning from one of the greatest of all time (like D-Will does), and he would blow Rubio out of the building.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

HKF said:


> I would take Wall without hesitation and then ask John Stockton to work with him in the summer. A guy with that kind of raw ability learning from one of the greatest of all time (like D-Will does), and he would blow Rubio out of the building.


Yeah, I was going to say that if I had Doc Rivers as my coach, or Stockton on staff I'm taking Wall and waiting a couple of years for Wall to start demolishing the competition. I mean, christ, look how far Rondo's come in three years of working with Rivers.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Talent wise, you've gotta go with Wall. That package is just rare.


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## MLKG (Aug 25, 2003)

I haven't seen much of Wall because he hasn't played on any kind of meaningful stage yet, so I have a very hard time believing he's better than Rubio.

Rubio is going to be one of the defining players of the next decade. He has all the best qualities of Steve Nash and Manu Ginobili. Don't be fooled into thinking he's not an athlete. He's a strong athlete even by NBA standards. He's the European Lebron James. A once in a generation talent. All doubt was eliminated for me watching him last summer.

I don't think it's a given that he's going to be available at #2 - and I'm super high on Blake Griffin as well.

(Not saying Wall can't be just as good, just don't haven't seen him play outside of youtube clips)


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

You should have watched the Nike Hoop Summit or the Brand Jordan game. It's obvious that Wall is on Derrick Rose's physical talent level.


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## Nimreitz (May 13, 2003)

Yeah, but physical tools isn't what makes Rose so special. He's smart as hell with the ball too.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Nimreitz said:


> Yeah, but physical tools isn't what makes Rose so special. He's smart as hell with the ball too.


And sometimes he's also very passive, hence the reasons he turns it over so much. However if you think Rose's physical tools aren't important, I'll just say this. If we gave Rose, Andre Miller's physical attributes what kind of player would he be? Would he even be in the NBA?

It's physical ability first, skills second on this level. I am not selling skills short, but Brian Cardinal is a skilled player as is Zach Randolph. If you increased their athleticism to the level of a Jason Maxiell or a Josh Smith, they would be much better.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Wall is even more naturally gifted than Rose. As for Rubio, can someone tell me whats make him better than Calathes? No one's talking about Calathes being a lotto pick.


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## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

Uhh yeah Rubio almost lead his country to a gold medal against the "Redeem Team" as a freaking 17 year old. Calathes has trouble leading his team to the NCAA tournament in an awful conference. Rubio is the truth just because he isn't an upper ecehlon athlete doesn't mean he isn't a good prospect for the future. I guess him holding his own on the same floor as LeBron, Wade, CP3, Dwight Howard, etc was all a fluke :uhoh:


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Rudy Fernandez held his own and he's an NBA role player. Patty Mills held his own and he's pretty much an NBA role player. Juan Carlos Navarro held his own and he was an NBA role player. What does holding his own really mean? When Dirk was coming up, he dominated his American counterparts in the Nike Hoop Summit (1998), which included Rashard Lewis, Al Harrington and a few others. 

There is no reason why Rubio can't be a role player on this level, but if you think he's gonna be a superstar in the NBA, I think you're wrong.


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## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

None of those guys were doing what Rubio was doing at 17 years old. If he improves his jumper he is going to be a multiple time all-star in the NBA. I wouldn't say superstar but he is going to be a top 5 PG for a long time. Wall has better potential down the line but Rubio is more polished at this point. I think both are going to be good NBA players for quite a long time.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

So you think Rubio will have a better NBA career than John Wall when it's all said and done?


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## Nimreitz (May 13, 2003)

HKF said:


> And sometimes he's also very passive, hence the reasons he turns it over so much. However if you think Rose's physical tools aren't important, I'll just say this. If we gave Rose, Andre Miller's physical attributes what kind of player would he be? Would he even be in the NBA?
> 
> It's physical ability first, skills second on this level. I am not selling skills short, but Brian Cardinal is a skilled player as is Zach Randolph. If you increased their athleticism to the level of a Jason Maxiell or a Josh Smith, they would be much better.


No it's having your head on straight first, physical ability second, and skills third. From what I've read, which admittedly isn't much, there are serious questions about Wall's mentality. He just broke into a house, he's been in high school forever, and hell, I'm not even sure he has the required SAT score (which is what? 900? Difficult.) yet! What guarantee do I have that he isn't another talented moron who will never be out of trouble long enough to put it all together?


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## MLKG (Aug 25, 2003)

HKF said:


> Rudy Fernandez held his own and he's an NBA role player. Patty Mills held his own and he's pretty much an NBA role player. Juan Carlos Navarro held his own and he was an NBA role player.


Those guys were all veterans of the scene and had good games against Team USA, Rubio was 17 and looked like he could have got playing time for them.

If people are worrying about Rubio as an athlete, I think they're going to be pretty surprised. He has legit point guard size (6'4") and a Rondo-like wingspan (6'9").


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

MLKG said:


> Those guys were all veterans of the scene and had good games against Team USA, Rubio was 17 and looked like he could have got playing time for them.
> 
> If people are worrying about Rubio as an athlete, I think they're going to be pretty surprised. He has legit point guard size (6'4") and a Rondo-like wingspan (6'9").


Patty Mills is a veteran now? hehe

I dont think you can judge one guy against team USA and say hes arguably a number 1 pick, then a guy like Pat is going to go in the late twenties after doing just as well..

really on the topic though it depends who my coach is, if you have a guy who has a history of developing point guards, or players with possible attitude issues you definitely take Wall with his potential, if you have an in-experienced coach id take Rubio as more of a sure thing


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## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

I'm not sure what Rubio's ceiling is which is why I'm still a little skeptical about him. He has many impressive skills, outstanding poise on the basketball court and is mature as a player beyond his years, but he is not a dynamic scorer which is the most important attribute, even for a point guard. If he develops into a legit scoring threat, superstardom or close to that status isn't out of question, I just don't know if he can.


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

croco said:


> I'm not sure what Rubio's ceiling is which is why I'm still a little skeptical about him. He has many impressive skills, outstanding poise on the basketball court and is mature as a player beyond his years, but he is not a dynamic scorer which is the most important attribute, even for a point guard. If he develops into a legit scoring threat, superstardom or close to that status isn't out of question, I just don't know if he can.


I watch Rondo and it makes me more of a believer in Rubio. Very similar IMO with Rondo being the better athlete and Rubio being longer.


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

HKF said:


> You should have watched the Nike Hoop Summit or the Brand Jordan game. It's obvious that Wall is on Derrick Rose's physical talent level.


+1.....watching those games is what got me on the wall wagon.....although the US kids lost to the euro kids in the hoop summit, it's safe to say that wall was the best player on the court any time he was on the court.....he was just all over the court that game contesting shots, making steals, running the break, penetrating and dishing at will, etc.....he showed me almost everything you can ask for in a player.....he was just a step ahead of everyone else.....


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

People are always looking for that next great Euro player or is it white player. They said it with Barganini, they said it with Gallinari. "Oh these guys are doing great in Euro league, they'll be stars in the NBA". Granted neither are busts, but still they arent exactly lighting up the league. I have said it before, Rubio's a fine passer but he looks like an average athlete, and the point position nowadays is full of guys who are quite athletic for their position and if you pay attention to those players coming down the line, in the John Wall mold, thats where the league is headed. 



> No it's having your head on straight first, physical ability second, and skills third. From what I've read, which admittedly isn't much, there are serious questions about Wall's mentality. He just broke into a house, he's been in high school forever, and hell, I'm not even sure he has the required SAT score (which is what? 900? Difficult.) yet! What guarantee do I have that he isn't another talented moron who will never be out of trouble long enough to put it all together?
> _


He's a kid, heavens forbid he acts like one.


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## BlakeJesus (Feb 1, 2006)

If you have the time to let Wall develop, he's worth the risk. If you're a coach that needs to save his job you're taking Rubio.


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

HB said:


> People are always looking for that next great Euro player or is it white player. They said it with Barganini, they said it with Gallinari. "Oh these guys are doing great in Euro league, they'll be stars in the NBA". Granted neither are busts, but still they arent exactly lighting up the league. I have said it before, Rubio's a fine passer but he looks like an average athlete, and the point position nowadays is full of guys who are quite athletic for their position and if you pay attention to those players coming down the line, in the John Wall mold, thats where the league is headed.
> 
> 
> 
> He's a kid, heavens forbid he acts like one.



exactly.....


you can't teach athleticism.....


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

So is it the consensus that Rubio is going to have a seamless transition to NBA basketball? Do you expect him to come into the NBA and start next year? I mean DJ Augustin didn't start off the bat, neither did Deron Williams, neither did Devin Harris, neither did Rajon Rondo, neither did Tony Parker, neither did Chauncey Billups. 

Is the expectation that Rubio will be starting like Rose, Marbury, Francis did and be that good off the bat? Because if he isn't, then why would you take the lower potential player in him? If he's not ready to start off the jump (and I am not saying he isn't), I am not sure why you take him over Wall. Seems to me they would both need time to catch up to speed on the NBA game.


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

also, i see many people saying that wall is the one who needs to develop, and that rubio is more polished.....


i don't buy it......they are both going to need to adjust to nba speed......it's not as if wall will come into league totally lost while rubio will instantly dominate.....they will both come in at about the same level, and i will go as far to say that with wall's athleticism, he will be the first out of the two to make a significant impact.......


the thing is, you can put wall on a crappy team, and since he is such a dynamic scorer, he will win games by himself.......rubio can't do that......especially on the nba level......rubio will need teammates that know how to finish, to achieve any type of success......rubio will be at the mercy of his teammates' abilities, where wall could do it himself.......


the fact that rubio's game is dependent on his teammates' abilities, where wall's game isn't, gives the definite advantage to wall......and if they were both to be drafted by teams stocked with scorers, wall can dish it as well as rubio anyways......


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

damn, hkf, you beat me to it.....


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## BlakeJesus (Feb 1, 2006)

I really don't think they will be coming in at the same level, how can you really say that? Rubio has been playing against Euro pro's for how many years now? Not to mention he has Olympic experience, with most countries having NBA level talent on their team. Wall is going to go from dominating high schoolers to playing against NBA veterans.

Wall is going to be a good player, but Rubio _will_ come into the league more polished.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

I understand that Wall is not going to come in dominating NBA veterans, but is Rubio? If the answer is no then why would you take the player that has lesser upside? If the answer is yes, then say don't be vague and say it. I am saying if everything is equal and they both come off the bench in the NBA to start their careers.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

GregOden, Gallinari and Barganini were playing in the Euroleague and supposedly were going to come in more polished than other players in their draft class. It didn't happen...look Wall's probably going to spend a year in college under one of the top coaches, might even be Calipari, who also coached Rose for a year. Right now, there's not much that seperates Rose over Wall IMO. I dont think he will struggle that much. The NBA game is just not like the Eurogame sorry to say.


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## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

HKF said:


> So you think Rubio will have a better NBA career than John Wall when it's all said and done?


Yes I do. He was a 17 year old and holding his own against the elite from the NBA. When he went off the floor was when the US started to put the game away, insert Rubio back in and Spain starts to claw back. The kid has skills beyond his years, a feel for the game that is rare for a 17 year old, and it appears to me he has the intangibles to become a top tier player in the NBA.


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## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

HB said:


> GregOden, Gallinari and Barganini were playing in the Euroleague and supposedly were going to come in more polished than other players in their draft class. It didn't happen...look Wall's probably going to spend a year in college under one of the top coaches, might even be Calipari, who also coached Rose for a year. Right now, there's not much that seperates Rose over Wall IMO. I dont think he will struggle that much. The NBA game is just not like the Eurogame sorry to say.


Yeah but Rubio has proven his worth against the absolute best players in the world in the Olympics unlike Galinari, and Bargnani. The USA would have won the gold medal game by 15+ if Rubio didn't play as poised and as well as he did. He was freaking 17 and he looked like he belonged on the court with CP3, LeBron, Wade, Melo, Kobe, Dwight Howard, etc. When has Wall ever faced a similar level of competition in such a high pressure game?


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

You guys act like Rubio was dominating in the Olympics. He wasn't!


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

HB said:


> You guys act like Rubio was dominating in the Olympics. He wasn't!


i was about to say the same thing.....


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## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

HB said:


> You guys act like Rubio was dominating in the Olympics. He wasn't!


Stats wise? No. Impact Wise? Yes he was. Spain was a much better team when he was on the floor then when he was off it. USA beat Spain soundly in pool play when Calderon was getting the majority of the minutes. USA just edged Spain when Rubio got the majority of the minutes due to Calderon's injury. Your right though any 17 year old could fill in for a decent NBA vet and run his team better in such a high pressure situation. :laugh:


Who has Wall proved himself against? Inferior High School kids that are 2-3 years younger than him? The last time Rubio competed against kids his age he put up a 51 point quadruple-double in a European competition. Wall is a specimen and a hell of a basketball prospect but he still has some things to work on. He owns one advantage over Rubio and thats athletic ability. Rubio has proven himself against the best players in the world, and has been competing against professionals for 4 years or so. He runs a team much better than Wall, and he is a better passer and defender. Neither has a very reliable jumper at this point. I'm going with the safer bet and that's Rubio.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

You guys are seriously overrating this dude. Would you take Rubio over Rose? Yes or no. Who did Rose prove himself with before playing in the NBA? I dont recall him dominating any NBA vets and AGAIN neither did Rubio. Spain got blown out.


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

look, the biggest thing that separates the nba from all the other leagues in the world is the athleticism of the players......rubio did well against the US, but it was one freakin game!!!! maybe the US just weren't prepared for him......

it's like in baseball where a pitcher does good, because a team just hasn't seen his stuff before.....but when the pitcher faces the same lineup a 2nd and 3rd time, the pitcher will get lit up........just a matter of familiarity......


how well do you think rubio will do against superior athletes over an 82 game season???? you can bet that rubio will have to change his game at least just a little bit to accomodate the differences of the nba game......passes he made in the euro league just won't be there in the nba......shots he got off clean will get swatted with regularity because he doesn't jump on his jumpshot......he will have to make changes, and because of this his transition to the nba won't be as seamless as some of you are envisioning......


on the other hand, as a high schooler, wall already has nba level athleticism......the adjustments he has to make will be mental and his transition will be easier than rubio's.......


it will be easier for wall to change his mental approach to the game, than for rubio to get more athletic.....simple as that.....


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## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

HB said:


> Spain got blown out.


Spain got blown out when Rubio wasn't in there to handle the ball, go and watch the game again. 


Also to Boots, I'm sure the US wasn't ready I mean it's only the Gold Medal game of the Olympics, smh.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Again, would you take Rubio over Rose? Did Rose play against any NBA vets before coming into the league? There's very little that seperates Rose and Wall talent-wise.


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## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

But Wall hasn't proven to be Rose yet, talent means quite a bit but it doesn't mean Wall is going to be as good as Rose is. Rose was playing against guys like OJ Mayo, Mike Beasley, Kevin Love, Kevin Durant, Greg Oden, Mike Conley, Spencer Hawes, and other '06-'07 HS class players every weekend in AAU ball. The talent Rose was playing and dominating against was better than the talent Wall was dominating in AAU ball. Rose might not have played any NBA vets but he proved his worth against better players at the same stage Wall has (not to mention Wall is a year older than most of the guys he is going up against whereas Rose was the same age). 


Would I take Rubio over Rose? Nope, Rose has proven himself against NBA competition. Would I take Rubio over Wall? Yep. Hopefully both stay healthy so we can see this whole situation play out.


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

bball2223 said:


> Spain got blown out when Rubio wasn't in there to handle the ball, go and watch the game again.
> 
> 
> Also to Boots, I'm sure the US wasn't ready I mean it's only the Gold Medal game of the Olympics, smh.



well, if rubio did as well against the US as you so claim, they weren't ready, were they???


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## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

bootstrenf said:


> well, if rubio did as well against the US as you so claim, they weren't ready, were they???


Yes they were, it means Rubio is just that good. You act like if they were prepared Rubio would have turned the ball over and not produced any offense or defense. They had already faced him once, and i'm sure had been scouting Spain's other games. They were definitely prepared, I really don't see what your trying to get at here. I'm sure Jason Kidd, Kobe, LeBron, CP3, and Coach K were just raving about the kid's abilities for show too, huh? I'm done arguing with you about the preparedness. You either didn't watch the olympics or you have no idea what the **** you are talking about.


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

bball2223 said:


> Yes they were, it means Rubio is just that good. You act like if they were prepared Rubio would have turned the ball over and not produced any offense or defense. They had already faced him once, and i'm sure had been scouting Spain's other games. They were definitely prepared, I really don't see what your trying to get at here. I'm sure Jason Kidd, Kobe, LeBron, CP3, and Coach K were just raving about the kid's abilities for show too, huh? I'm done arguing with you about the preparedness. You either didn't watch the olympics or you have no idea what the **** you are talking about.


yes i did watch the olympics, and there's no need to curse.....especially from a CM.....i don't care if it's censored or not......

so **** you.....


like i said, i did watch the olympics, and i also saw the summit game that wall played in.......wall was much more impressive......you either didn't watch the hoop summit game or you have no idea what the **** you are talking about. i'm leaning towards the latter....


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## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

:laugh: at comparing the Hoop Summit game to the Olympics.


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

bball2223 said:


> :laugh: at comparing the Hoop Summit game to the Olympics.





yes, because besides TEAM USA, there are so many other GREAT teams in the olympics......lol......


wang zhizhi was a starter for china......


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

bball2223 said:


> :laugh: at comparing the Hoop Summit game to the Olympics.


so did you watch the game or not?


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## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

HKF said:


> So is it the consensus that Rubio is going to have a seamless transition to NBA basketball? Do you expect him to come into the NBA and start next year? I mean DJ Augustin didn't start off the bat, neither did Deron Williams, neither did Devin Harris, neither did Rajon Rondo, neither did Tony Parker, neither did Chauncey Billups.
> 
> Is the expectation that Rubio will be starting like Rose, Marbury, Francis did and be that good off the bat? Because if he isn't, then why would you take the lower potential player in him? If he's not ready to start off the jump (and I am not saying he isn't), I am not sure why you take him over Wall. Seems to me they would both need time to catch up to speed on the NBA game.


I'm going to say the same thing about Rubio that I said about Derrick Rose: best case scenario he becomes Tony Parker. No way he surpasses Parker. Parker exceeds the limits of what a quick, poor-shooting passer can become so he's basically their best case scenario.

These guys aren't suddenly going to wake up without the bad shooting habits and the proper ones. You have to be able to drain the 20+ foot shot as a point guard in this league because the players are so big and they close out so fast and it's essential for floor balance. Main reason why Chauncey is so successful.



bball2223 said:


> :laugh: at comparing the Hoop Summit game to the Olympics.


You think Carlos Arroyo will get picked up this summer?


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## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

bootstrenf said:


> so did you watch the game or not?


Yes I did, Wall was impressive like you said. The international team had 2-3 kids tops who will play in the NBA, the competition was good but not great.


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## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

The '93 Heat said:


> You think Carlos Arroyo will get picked up this summer?




Carlos Arroyo played for the '08 USA olympic team? :wtf:


An all-star game against some of the best teenage international players is hardly on the same level as the Olympic games (especially since I have been referencing the Gold Medal game time and time again).


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## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

bball2223 said:


> Carlos Arroyo played for the '08 USA olympic team? :wtf:
> 
> 
> An all-star game against some of the best teenage international players is hardly on the same level as the Olympic games (especially since I have been referencing the Gold Medal game time and time again).


No, he played for the Puerto Rican team and dominated that tournament back in '04.


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

The '93 Heat said:


> No, he played for the Puerto Rican team and dominated that tournament back in '04.


he lit up team usa for 30+ didn't he?

carlos arroyo is a star in the nba right now, right?


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## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

bootstrenf said:


> he lit up team usa for 30+ didn't he?
> 
> carlos arroyo is a star in the nba right now, right?


So Rubio is destined to follow the same path as guys like Arroyo and Jasikevicius is what your saying?


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

bootstrenf said:


> he lit up team usa for 30+ didn't he?
> 
> carlos arroyo is a star in the nba right now, right?


I hear Chicago offered D-Rose & Bengo for him.


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

bball2223 said:


> So Rubio is destined to follow the same path as guys like Arroyo and Jasikevicius is what your saying?


nope.....not even close.....


one good game vs. team usa in a tournment is not a great indicator of future success in the nba.....whereas the players who dominate major AAU tourneys have decent success in the nba.....


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

ehmunro said:


> I hear Chicago offered D-Rose & Bengo for him.


hell no!!!


you can't trade away a player who excelled in an international tournement for bums like rose and gordon......you know better than that!!!!


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## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

He was 17 in that game, 17. Normal 17 year olds are wondering when or if their going to get their next nut in, not worried about going head to head against the best players in the world. Arroyo had been an NBA vet when he had that performance, thats a huge difference between being a 17 year old.


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

bball2223 said:


> He was 17 in that game, 17. Normal 17 year olds are wondering when or if their going to get their next nut in, not worried about going head to head against the best players in the world. Arroyo had been an NBA vet when he had that performance, thats a huge difference between being a 17 year old.


i'm not sure that your statement adequately counters my previous posts.....


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## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

bootstrenf said:


> hell no!!!
> 
> 
> you can't trade away a player who excelled in an international tournement for bums like rose and gordon......you know better than that!!!!


Wait when did I ever say one international performance is better than actually exceling in the NBA? The original discussion was that Rubio proved himself in an Olympic game against the best players in the world. Wall hasn't proven himself in an environment with the same level of competition. We are talking about two kids who both will be playing in the NBA rather soon, not 3 guys who already have played and proved their worth in the NBA.


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

bball2223 said:


> Wait when did I ever say one international performance is better than actually exceling in the NBA? The original discussion was that Rubio proved himself in an Olympic game against the best players in the world. Wall hasn't proven himself in an environment with the same level of competition. We are talking about two kids who both will be playing in the NBA rather soon, not 3 guys who already have played and proved their worth in the NBA.


my post was in response to ehmunro's post.....wasn't talking to you at all.....hope this clears things up.....


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## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

bball2223 said:


> He was 17 in that game, 17. Normal 17 year olds are wondering when or if their going to get their next nut in, not worried about going head to head against the best players in the world. Arroyo had been an NBA vet when he had that performance, thats a huge difference between being a 17 year old.


Have you seen the NCAA tourney? All these tournies are dominated by guard play with the inability to throw a decent post entry pass, officiating that discourages post play, and a bunch of motion offenses jacking up shorter distance three pointers early in the shot clock. Any 17 year old who can maintain a dribble is going to excel in these tournies and off the ball/low post players are going to struggle. All the olympics did was reinforce the fact that he will never be a good shooter.


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## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

The '93 Heat said:


> Any 17 year old who can maintain a dribble is going to excel in these tournies



You can't be serious can you? Any 17 year old? :laugh:


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## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

bball2223 said:


> You can't be serious can you? Any 17 year old? :laugh:


There's obviously a fair level of hyperbole in that statement. But non-NBA level talent at the guard position can dominate the olympics. That's just fact. A 17 year old Jarrett Jack could do exactly what Ricky Rubio did and at 17 he was not at an NBA level yet.


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## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

Jarrett Jack put up a 51 point quadruple double when he was 16 like Rubio? Quit reaching, Rubio is damn talented there isn't many kid's his age with his skills. You guys are acting like this kid is some scrub, lot of people going to be eating crow in this thread.


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## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

bball2223 said:


> Jarrett Jack put up a 51 point quadruple double when he was 16 like Rubio? Quit reaching, Rubio is damn talented there isn't many kid's his age with his skills. You guys are acting like this kid is some scrub, lot of people going to be eating crow in this thread.


Do you ever watch the 17-18 year old top 100 recruits of this country play? You act like Rubio at 17 is some revolutionary player who is changing the game. The fact is, he is one of the best 17 year old _Euro_ players in a long time. He is not one of the best 17 year old players in a long time. Don't kid yourself. I've seen literally dozens that could outperform him.


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## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

Like who? Sebastian Telfair, Darius Washington, Brandan Jennings? I never said the kid was a LeBron level prospect but he would be a top 3 player if he were in the states just like Wall. I don't see what's so outlandish about me thinking Rubio could end up better in the long run.


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

bball2223 said:


> Jarrett Jack put up a 51 point quadruple double when he was 16 like Rubio? Quit reaching, Rubio is damn talented there isn't many kid's his age with his skills. You guys are acting like this kid is some scrub, lot of people going to be eating crow in this thread.


don't put words into my mouth, i never said he would be a scrub.....i just said that he wouldn't be as good as john wall....huge difference.....



bball2223 said:


> Like who? Sebastian Telfair, Darius Washington, Brandan Jennings? I never said the kid was a LeBron level prospect but he would be a top 3 player if he were in the states just like Wall. I don't see what's so outlandish about me thinking Rubio could end up better n the long run.



and i don't see what's so outlandish about me thinking wall could end up better in the long run...


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## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

The '93 Heat said:


> Do you ever watch the 17-18 year old top 100 recruits of this country play?



I have only followed recruiting pretty close since the start of the decade but your right I don't watch them play. :wtf:


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## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

bootstrenf said:


> don't put words into my mouth, i never said he would be a scrub.....i just said that he wouldn't be as good as john wall....huge difference.....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I never said that was outlandish. You guys are ripping apart Rubio like he is your average everyday 3* PG recruit. I think the world of both just from what I have seen I would place Rubio ahead of Wall.


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

bball2223 said:


> I never said that was outlandish. You guys are ripping apart Rubio like he is your average everyday 3* PG recruit. I think the world of both just from what I have seen I would place Rubio ahead of Wall.


quote one post where i rip rubio....please.....


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## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

You should read some of your posts. Your trying to compare a teenagers performance in a game against the best NBA players of this era, to guys who are already established NBA players who had good games against a lesser talented team 4 years prior. The kid was 17 playing against guys he watches every night aspiring to be in the same league and holding his own in about as big of a stage as you will find in basketball. I have zero problems with you choosing Wall but you have spent more time in this thread diminishing what Rubio has done then proving why Wall is going to end up better in the long run.


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## MLKG (Aug 25, 2003)

HKF said:


> I understand that Wall is not going to come in dominating NBA veterans, but is Rubio? If the answer is no then why would you take the player that has lesser upside? If the answer is yes, then say don't be vague and say it. I am saying if everything is equal and they both come off the bench in the NBA to start their careers.


I don't really buy that he has less upside. Rubio's court vision, coordination, and passing ability are just as unteachable as Wall's athleticism. 

And you guys are still short selling Rubio's athleticism. He has elite length, an elite first step, total ambidexterity, and elite footwork. He proved in the Olympics that he's going to be able to take NBA players off the dribble whenever he wants. He's already a great floor manager, and in the pick-and-roll'centric NBA - that's going to be on display immediately.



HB said:


> You guys are seriously overrating this dude. Would you take Rubio over Rose? Yes or no. Who did Rose prove himself with before playing in the NBA? I dont recall him dominating any NBA vets and AGAIN neither did Rubio. Spain got blown out.


Did you seriously just ask this question?

Rose was a missed free throw away from leading his team to a national championship as a freshman. That's a fairly significant resume bullet.


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

bball2223 said:


> You should read some of your posts. Your trying to compare a teenagers performance in a game against the best NBA players of this era, to guys who are already established NBA players who had good games against a lesser talented team 4 years prior. The kid was 17 playing against guys he watches every night aspiring to be in the same league and holding his own in about as big of a stage as you will find in basketball. I have zero problems with you choosing Wall but you have spent more time in this thread diminishing what Rubio has done then proving why Wall is going to end up better in the long run.




i've stated ad nauseum on why i think wall would be the better nba player.....and i have not ripped rubio in the slightest......closest thing to ripping him was comparing him to carlos arroyo.....but it wasn't even a direct comparison.....i just juxtaposed the two to show that success in international tourneys do not guarantee nba success.....


as a matter of fact, if the clippers have the chance to take rubio, i would be more than happy if they do......and i would not be upset if they got the #1 overall and took rubio *over* griffin.....


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## BlakeJesus (Feb 1, 2006)

The '93 Heat said:


> Any 17 year old who can maintain a dribble is going to excel in these tournies


You absolutely cannot be series. Easily one of the most unintelligent things I've ever seen on these boards. This rivals a ballscientist post.



bootstrenf said:


> yes, because besides TEAM USA, there are so many other GREAT teams in the olympics......lol......
> 
> 
> wang zhizhi was a starter for china......


Trying to downplay the Olympic talent is only going to make you look foolish. It takes the absolute best players from the NBA to win these days, and even then they don't always pull through. Not every team is stacked top to bottom, but most teams had a couple players of NBA caliber.

I don't think anybody here thinks Wall isn't going to turn into a great player. I know that's not what I'm saying, and I can assume that's not what bball is saying. However, if you think a point guard straight out of high school is going to come into the league more polished than somebody who's been playing pro ball for years, with Olympic experience to boot, you're kidding yourself. Is Wall going to come into the league with more athleticism? Sure. But more polished? Don't get ahead of yourselves, please.


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

GregOden said:


> You absolutely cannot be series. Easily one of the most unintelligent things I've ever seen on these boards. This rivals a ballscientist post.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




kind of late to the party aren't we, i've already addressed everything you brought up in previous posts, i'm not going to repeat myself.....but i disagree.....


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## BlakeJesus (Feb 1, 2006)

The '93 Heat said:


> You think Carlos Arroyo will get picked up this summer?


That's not even a logical comparison. Just because they are both euro and play point guard do not make them even remotely similar. They have drastically different play styles, and it's blatantly obvious.

You're reaching to try and shine your point in a better light, but it's not working whatsoever.

How about I start comparing Wall to Sebastian Telfair? They're both African American, and they both play point guard. Hell, they'd both be coming out of high school too!


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

John Wall has the most ridiculous highlight reel for a HS PG that I've ever seen.

The kid dominates. It's hard to think that he won't be an awesome NBA point.


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

GregOden said:


> That's not even a logical comparison. Just because they are both euro and play point guard do not make them even remotely similar. They have drastically different play styles, and it's blatantly obvious.
> 
> You're reaching to try and shine your point in a better light, but it's not working whatsoever.
> 
> How about I start comparing Wall to Sebastian Telfair? They're both African American, and they both play point guard. Hell, they'd both be coming out of high school too!


do you have any concept of context???


the comparison wasn't made because they are both euro and both play pg......it was made because both players faired well against the US in international competition.....



> You're reaching to try and shine your point in a better light, but it's not working whatsoever


you should read everything and try to understand peoples' points before making statements like this.....lol.....


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## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

Damian Necronamous said:


> John Wall has the most ridiculous highlight reel for a HS PG that I've ever seen.
> 
> The kid dominates. It's hard to think that he won't be an awesome NBA point.



No doubt, let me rephrase that I do in fact think he is going to be a very good NBA player but I really find it hard to logically put him over Rubio at this point. Again just how I see things but both are tremendous prospects.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

Damian Necronamous said:


> John Wall has the most ridiculous highlight reel for a HS PG that I've ever seen.
> 
> The kid dominates. It's hard to think that he won't be an awesome NBA point.


He just has, flat out, the most ridiculous game I've ever seen in a high school point. Given the stat line that someone like Rajon Rondo is able to post at 6' 170, I can't even comprehend what someone of Wall's size, having even better athleticism, is going to do. Given the discussion in this thread I think it's likely he's going to make a lot of people look awfully silly in a few years.


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## MLKG (Aug 25, 2003)

ehmunro said:


> He just has, flat out, the most ridiculous game I've ever seen in a high school point. Given the stat line that someone like Rajon Rondo is able to post at 6' 170, I can't even comprehend what someone of Wall's size, having even better athleticism, is going to do. Given the discussion in this thread I think it's likely he's going to make a lot of people look awfully silly in a few years.


He could come in his first year, dominate physically, and put up a ridiculous 20, 7, and 7. Would that make him any different than Steve Francis?

I'm not trying to talk him down. I'm just not comfortable prognosticating players based on athleticism. If you're looking at ball skills, leadership, court awareness, maturity... I don't see how you could like what Wall maybe one day could have in those areas over what Rubio already has shown (considering they are the same age).


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## TYO23 (Feb 2, 2009)

Im taking John Wall something about this kid game screams special not to say rubio doesnt. I just feel if you get john some coaching like how utah did with deron your looking at a superstar. But rubio will be solid guys. Being 16 I really appreciate and understand how amazing it was for him to be out there and playing good against guys like cp3 j-kidd and deron.


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## Chef (Nov 24, 2002)

Me being a Spaniard, I' ve seen quite a bit of Ricky Rubio. That said, I' ve voted for Wall.

Ricky is going to come in as an excellent defender and very gifted distributor. But it's his scoring ability what it makes me reluctant to put him over Wall. He is not a great athlete and he is a mediocre shooter at best.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

MLKG said:


> I don't really buy that he has less upside. Rubio's court vision, coordination, and passing ability are just as unteachable as Wall's athleticism.
> 
> And you guys are still short selling Rubio's athleticism. He has elite length, an elite first step, total ambidexterity, and elite footwork. He proved in the Olympics that he's going to be able to take NBA players off the dribble whenever he wants. He's already a great floor manager, and in the pick-and-roll'centric NBA - that's going to be on display immediately.
> 
> ...


So how is it Wall's fault that he is a year behind Rose and hasn't gotten a chance to show his skills on the college level. Dude you haven't even watched Wall play, how do you even know what he is capable of? Wall's the most highly touted recruit in college basketball right now, that should tell you A LOT about what coaches think of him

Again, people build up these European players, without watching them regularly, and try to find fault with local products. Thank goodness for guys like Chef who actually watch him, we need those type of opinions on these boards.


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## SlamJam (Nov 27, 2004)

ricky rubio's per game 2008 olympics stats (8 games) - 

18 minutes, 4.8 points, 4 rebounds, 3 assists, 3 TO, 1.4 steals
FG 28%, 3PT 17%, FT 78%


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## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

HB said:


> Again, people build up these European players, without watching them regularly, and try to find fault with local products. Thank goodness for guys like Chef who actually watch him, we need those type of opinions on these boards.



:wtf:


I'm not trying to build up some random Euro prospect (and I don't think MLKG, or GO is either). We have one guy who thinks any 17 year old who can walk and dribble at the same time would have had the same success he had last year against Team USA in the olympics, and then you think he is all hype because he is white and from Europe. Do you guys read what your posting? You guys are treating this dude like he is Greg Paulus.



The kid isn't flashy in terms of dunking on you, or crossing you and making you look silly. The kid is 6'4" a solid athlete, with a great wingspan. He has no equal in terms of court vision and passing the rock at least when it comes to his age group (Wall included). He already runs a team like a 10 year NBA vet, and he has mastered the pick and roll at 17/18 years old. He has a good enough handle to create and get in the lane on the NBA level. He is also a great off the ball, and man to man defender. You can cite his lack of a jumper but Wall doesn't have one either. 


I have no problem with anyone picking Wall. He is 6'4" and has unmatched athleticism, a very good handle, and he can get in the lane at will. Outside of athletic ability there is nothing he does a whole lot better than Rubio, if anything at all. Rubio is a better defender, has better intangibles, and is a much more willing/better passer. Both have extremely bright futures but I think Rubio is more of a sure thing at this point.


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## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

SlamJam said:


> ricky rubio's per game 2008 olympics stats (8 games) -
> 
> 18 minutes, 4.8 points, 4 rebounds, 3 assists, 3 TO, 1.4 steals
> FG 28%, 3PT 17%, FT 78%



As a 17 year old, playing against established NBA superstars and other NBA players (people seem to think this isn't a good feat or anything). His shooting is his biggest weakness (and remember he is only 17, how many 17 year olds are great outside shooters?), but other than that I hardly consider those bad stats (turning down the turnovers will happen with experience). You convert those numbers to an NBA contest (in terms of minutes) and he is getting you 11 points, 10 rebounds, and 9 assists a night. The guy is a bigger Steve Nash with defenssive ability.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

No one is treating him like Greg Paulus, he is being compared to arguably the best point guard prospect in the nation right now. I still dont see the success you bring up against Team USA. He was adequate with his time on the court, guess what so was Arvydas Macijuaskas, Ibrahim Kutluauy and the numerous guys who didnt embarass themselves when they played limited minutes against a very good USA squad. I dont know how Rubio will pan out, but I find it hard to imagine Wall is going to struggle in the NBA with the type of physical tools he possesses, especially when a similar player in Rose is holding his own in the league right now. Why would I bet against him?

We keep getting fed this so so and so has played in the Euroleague and dominated but they come over here and what happens?


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

bball2223 said:


> As a 17 year old, playing against established NBA superstars and other NBA players (people seem to think this isn't a good feat or anything). His shooting is his biggest weakness (and remember he is only 17, how many 17 year olds are great outside shooters?), but other than that I hardly consider those bad stats (turning down the turnovers will happen with experience). You convert those numbers to an NBA contest (in terms of minutes) and he is getting you 11 points, 10 rebounds, and 9 assists a night. The guy is a bigger Steve Nash with defenssive ability.


Dude those are mediocre numbers, not standout numbers. And you cant convert those numbers because all those games werent played against TEAM USA.


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## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

The kid *RAN* the team like a ****ing 10 year NBA vet as a 17 year old against the likes of CP3, LeBron, D Wade, Kobe, Jason Kidd, Dwight Howard, etc in the Gold Medal game of the olympics. He held his own against the best players in the entire world as a teenager. You don't see that everyday.


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## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

HB said:


> Dude those are mediocre numbers, not standout numbers. And you cant convert those numbers because all those games werent played against TEAM USA.


What 17 year old do you see putting up those same numbers against the level of competition Rubio was up against? I'll wait.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Good for him, still it was one game, in limited minutes, thats not the case for an 82 game season when guys have scouting reports and know what player tendencies are.


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## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

:laugh: so you think Team USA wasn't prepared for him either? give me a ****ing break.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

bball2223 said:


> What 17 year old do you see putting up those same numbers against the level of competition Rubio was up against? I'll wait.


Dude why do you keep bringing up this 17 year old talk? You know damn well that the NBA wont let 17 year olds go in the league that early, at least not with all the loop holes and you know damn well that the NBA is loaded with so much talent that its virtually impossible for anyone in that age range to ever make it on the team to compete against the guys Rubio has.

So yes thats an unfair comparison knowing Wall and the like will not get a chance to prove themselves. Again, Wall has physical tools that make him very hard to contain. 

Also, lets call a spade a spade, Rubio's being viewed as a professional, and as a professional, those are mediocre numbers.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

bball2223 said:


> :laugh: so you think Team USA wasn't prepared for him either? give me a ****ing break.


Why would they gameplan for a bench player who was getting limited minutes? Especially when established NBA players are on the same team.

Wouldnt Wade and CP3's comments suggest to you this was a guy they didnt know much about until when they played against him?


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## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

And wouldn't the praise he was showered with by the Team USA players and coaches suggest the kid is a pretty damn good player?


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

It would, though I dont think thats the argument in this thread. Its whether he is better than John Wall, another good player.


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## SlamJam (Nov 27, 2004)

bball2223 said:


> As a 17 year old, playing against established NBA superstars and other NBA players (people seem to think this isn't a good feat or anything). His shooting is his biggest weakness (and remember he is only 17, how many 17 year olds are great outside shooters?), but other than that I hardly consider those bad stats (turning down the turnovers will happen with experience).


those were 8 game averages. he usually wasn't playing against nba players.



> You convert those numbers to an NBA contest (in terms of minutes) and he is getting you 11 points, 10 rebounds, and 9 assists a night. The guy is a bigger Steve Nash with defenssive ability.


convert rudy fernandez' numbers into those minutes and he's averaging 24 ppg. not to mention he wsan't shooting under 30%.


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## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

HB said:


> Dude why do you keep bringing up this 17 year old talk? You know damn well that the NBA wont let 17 year olds go in the league that early, at least not with all the loop holes and you know damn well that the NBA is loaded with so much talent that its virtually impossible for anyone in that age range to ever make it on the team to compete against the guys Rubio has.
> 
> So yes thats an unfair comparison knowing Wall and the like will not get a chance to prove themselves. Again, Wall has physical tools that make him very hard to contain.
> 
> Also, lets call a spade a spade, Rubio's being viewed as a professional, and as a professional, those are mediocre numbers.



:laugh: 


How him being a 17 year old and holding his own against the top 5 players in the world on the biggest stage for international basketball isn't impressive to you is beyond me. The kid has poise, and skills beyond his years. Those numbers are mediocore for a professional? He was playing 18 minutes a game, and was counted on to run the team not shoot and try to pad his stats. Let's compare his stats to some other NBA PG's in the same tourney:


Jason Kidd:

1.6 Points Per Game
2.6 Rebounds Per Game
2 Assists Per Game
14 minutes per game


Chris Paul:

8 points per game
3.5 Rebounds per game
4 Assists per game
22 Minutes per game


Rubio's Stats:

4.8 Points per game
4 Rebounds per game
3 Assists per game (to just 2 TO per game)
18 Minutes per game


In the final against Team USA Rubio has 6 points, 6 rebounds, 3 steals, and 3 assists. Are those groundbreaking stats? No, but for a 17 year old kid who was only asked to take care of the ball and get the ball in the hands of the more experienced players on his team it looks like he did pretty well to me. If you watched the game Rubio was taking care of the ball, distributing it, and defending at a really high level. He is the youngest basketball player in olympic history to medal. The kid might not have wowed you with stats, but go and watch the game again and tell me your not impressed with his poise, and his feel for the game. Intangibles aren't something to ignore and this kid has them. Poise, leadership, confidence and he is always in control. You can learn more from watching this kid play then worrying about stats.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

You really dont want to compare Team USA to Team Spain, especially the way point guards run those teams. TEAM USA was far from a point guard dominated styled offense. Everyone on USA's squad was an adequate passer, they didnt need the pg's to dominate the game. You know I'll upgrade my first assessment, Rubio's numbers werent mediocre, they are decent. Its not mindblowing. Also realize, 7 of those 8 teams were average teams. Again, lets see how he fares in an 82 game season. 

Again, you bring up the 17 argument, which is all nice and well, but the guys the same age, in his class in the USA will not get the chance to prove the same. Hey look, a 19 year old Rose just had a pretty good playoff series with the defending champs, Wall-Rose, hey there's that comparison again. 

And yes I agree, we can learn more about this kids than just stats, which is why watching Wall, and the physical gifts he possesses leads me to believe, this kid is going to be amazing.


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## SlamJam (Nov 27, 2004)

HB said:


> Again, you bring up the 17 argument, which is all nice and well, but the guys the same age, in his class in the USA will not get the chance to prove the same. Hey look, a 19 year old Rose just had a pretty good playoff series with the defending champs, Wall-Rose, hey there's that comparison again.


yeah the 17 year old thing is being overdone. yes, he has poise and knows the game well, but rubio wasn't doing anything special. that's like saying gerald green was headed for stardom because his rookie year he averaged 5 ppg and he was only a year out of high school!


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## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

The Olympics are such a small sample size and the entire atmosphere and tournament is not comparable to the NBA. It is an indicator of what someone might be able to do, but I wouldn't draw conclusions on 150 minutes of play. Rubio's performance and development in the Spanish league matters a lot more than 8 games during a unique event.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Ya know, on a second thought, bball is right, Rose/Wall or whoever it is, probably wont be able to do what Rubio has done at 17. He's been playing pro ball for years, that experience must count for something. I still stick with picking Wall over him though.


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## kwyjibo (Dec 28, 2003)

I was truly impressed with Rubio in the olympics, but I think if you put John Wall in the same situation, and let him run with nothing to lose as an underdog, he'd would hold his own as well. It's hard to be confident one way or another. Rubio's numbers are less than impressive in Euroleague, and Wall hasn't proven himself against top quality competition, nor has he been absolutely dominant so much to appear to be a sure thing. If forced to choose, I'd flip a coin.


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## jacarmy (May 20, 2009)

Support!!!


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