# I miss Francis



## Mr. Hobbes (Jul 1, 2005)

Anyone else notice Yao and TMac have almost ZERO chemistry? It might not be true, becuase I don't watch too many Rockets games. I rarely see TMac and Yao pass to each other. TMac and Francis are both ballhogs, but it seemed like Yao got a lot more touches from Francis than he does from TMac. I know Francis is a PG, but it just seems like TMac would rather pull up for a jumpshot than drive and dish to Yao. When Francis was still on the team, he would always talk to Yao. TMac doesn't even look at Yao. Francis just seems more willing to defer to Yao than TMac. Anoyone notice this?


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## Blink4 (Jan 17, 2005)

no


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## Pimped Out (May 4, 2005)

boooooooooo, get off the stage.

tmac and yao have great chemistry and francis sucks.


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## TheRoc5 (Mar 1, 2005)

these are the same threads that were going on last yr around this time, just wait to see the rockets win 50 plus


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## tone wone (Jan 30, 2003)

WTChan said:


> Anyone else notice Yao and TMac have almost ZERO chemistry? It might not be true, becuase I don't watch too many Rockets games. I rarely see TMac and Yao pass to each other. TMac and Francis are both ballhogs, but it seemed like Yao got a lot more touches from Francis than he does from TMac. I know Francis is a PG, but it just seems like TMac would rather pull up for a jumpshot than drive and dish to Yao. When Francis was still on the team, he would always talk to Yao. TMac doesn't even look at Yao. Francis just seems more willing to defer to Yao than TMac. Anoyone notice this?


 nope.

I kinda see what you're saying but you have to understand they haven't "on" at the same time so far season to make this assumption. I remember early last season when people said things like this...I thought it was crazy cause they hadn't got into a groove individualy at the same to show this "great" chemistry they have.

You cant' compare Tracy and Francis cause Francis is far more vocal on the court.


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## Mr. Hobbes (Jul 1, 2005)

Oh


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## Hakeem (Aug 12, 2004)

WTChan said:


> Anyone else notice Yao and TMac have almost ZERO chemistry? It might not be true, becuase I don't watch too many Rockets games. I rarely see TMac and Yao pass to each other. TMac and Francis are both ballhogs, but it seemed like Yao got a lot more touches from Francis than he does from TMac. I know Francis is a PG, but it just seems like TMac would rather pull up for a jumpshot than drive and dish to Yao. When Francis was still on the team, he would always talk to Yao. TMac doesn't even look at Yao. Francis just seems more willing to defer to Yao than TMac. Anoyone notice this?


I see what you mean, but T-Mac passed it to Yao plenty last season. He just hasn't done that so far this season, but it's just a bad stretch.


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## kisstherim (Jul 15, 2004)

WTChan said:


> Anyone else notice Yao and TMac have almost ZERO chemistry? It might not be true, becuase I don't watch too many Rockets games. I rarely see TMac and Yao pass to each other. TMac and Francis are both ballhogs, but it seemed like Yao got a lot more touches from Francis than he does from TMac. I know Francis is a PG, but it just seems like TMac would rather pull up for a jumpshot than drive and dish to Yao. When Francis was still on the team, he would always talk to Yao. TMac doesn't even look at Yao. Francis just seems more willing to defer to Yao than TMac. Anoyone notice this?


In his last season in Houston, Francis did pass to Yao more than he did before, but it's just he was finally willing to pass to Yao. I guess most guards in the league are able to do those kinds of passes if they r willing to. 
TMAC is a way better decision passer and knows how to pass to Yao the right way. They (TMAC & Yao) might don't have a chemistry as gay as the one between Yao & Francisrolleyes They might not be real friends outside the court. Maybe they're just…taking advantage of each other,but I see nothing wrong with taking advantage of ur teammates to win championships.The only thing matters is they does trust/respect/admire/support each other as teammates and are willing to pass to each other whenever the other one is in good position. They don't give a damn to who has a better stats or who is the real leader of the team. I think that's enough for teammates.

And that's true they don't talk to each other much,but it's just because they r both introverted.


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## LX (Oct 14, 2004)

I havent really followed that whole situation down there in Houston, but a question arises here. Never mind just Francis. What about the whole Francis & Mobley combination? Wouldn't you rather have had an all-star caliber PG, as well as a great role player in Cuttino Mobley, rather than T-Mac and Yao, with an assortment of washed up old guys (Wesley, Barry, Anderson), an And1 street baller (Alston), and anyone else I'm forgetting. Personally I think you would have been better off having Mobley and Francis rather than T-mac.


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## kisstherim (Jul 15, 2004)

Lanteri said:


> I havent really followed that whole situation down there in Houston, but a question arises here. Never mind just Francis. What about the whole Francis & Mobley combination? Wouldn't you rather have had an all-star caliber PG, as well as a great role player in Cuttino Mobley, rather than T-Mac and Yao, with an assortment of washed up old guys (Wesley, Barry, Anderson), an And1 street baller (Alston), and anyone else I'm forgetting. Personally I think you would have been better off having Mobley and Francis rather than T-mac.


Mobley and Francis can lead us to nowhere,but with TMAC,we at least have a chance of being a contender.


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## tone wone (Jan 30, 2003)

Lanteri said:


> I havent really followed that whole situation down there in Houston, but a question arises here. Never mind just Francis. What about the whole Francis & Mobley combination? Wouldn't you rather have had an all-star caliber PG, as well as a great role player in Cuttino Mobley, rather than T-Mac and Yao, with an assortment of washed up old guys (Wesley, Barry, Anderson), an And1 street baller (Alston), and anyone else I'm forgetting. Personally I think you would have been better off having Mobley and Francis rather than T-mac.


 explain how would houston be better off with Mobely and Francis

dont let Houston's record so far this year fool you....not only is the team better than any Francis/Mobely team in the past but this team more talented than last years team.

Yao Mania will further explain why this team is better


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## skykisser (Nov 10, 2005)

tone wone said:


> Yao Mania will further explain why this team is better


I love this one.


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## Demiloy (Nov 4, 2005)

Please, don't brring back Francis. I shudder to think of how many times dribbled away the shot clock, and then tossed up a brick.


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## skykisser (Nov 10, 2005)

WTChan said:


> Anyone else notice Yao and TMac have almost ZERO chemistry? It might not be true, becuase I don't watch too many Rockets games. I rarely see TMac and Yao pass to each other. TMac and Francis are both ballhogs, but it seemed like Yao got a lot more touches from Francis than he does from TMac. I know Francis is a PG, but it just seems like TMac would rather pull up for a jumpshot than drive and dish to Yao. When Francis was still on the team, he would always talk to Yao. TMac doesn't even look at Yao. Francis just seems more willing to defer to Yao than TMac. Anoyone notice this?


Its just not the key point.
The problem is the guards are not playing well. DA/RA are still struggling to find their way to play.
Besides,the whole team needs chemistry, not only TMAC and Yao.


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## Yao Mania (Aug 4, 2003)

tone wone said:


> explain how would houston be better off with Mobely and Francis
> 
> dont let Houston's record so far this year fool you....not only is the team better than any Francis/Mobely team in the past but this team more talented than last years team.
> 
> Yao Mania will further explain why this team is better


Thank you tone one, I will take it from here :biggrin:

Let's look back at the trade: T-Mac/Howard/Gaines/Lue for Francis/Mobley/Cato

Before we start with Francis, let's talk about Mobley and Cato. Mobley is a good defender and a decent scorer, but very often makes poor decisions with the ball and is a streaky shooter. Would I take Mobley over any of the SGs we have right now? Yes. But is he a big upgrade from David Wesley? Not really. And I think Bobby Sura actually has a more important role on this team than Mobley would if he was still here.

Cato. Brings rebounding and interior defense, could guard opposing Cs so Yao can stay away from foul trouble on the defensive end, but was a black hole on offense. Because he simply can't do anything on the offensive end, it allowed opposing teams to double up on Yao, and hog up space in the paint. 

Ok, now Francis... I think the best reference for the past is looking at his present situation in Orlando. He's working with another talented big in Dwight Howard, but you'll continually hear Magic fans complaining nowadays that Howard isn't getting enough touches. Francis is a talented player, but always needs the ball in his hands. Granted, so does T-Mac, but T-Mac can do so much more than Francis in just about every aspect of the game, period. As MRC would always point out, the T-Mac/Yao pick-and-roll is one of the most effective and under-utilized strategies out there. Yao sets pick, T-Mac either shoots and scores or passes to Yao for an easy bucket if help comes. 

Oh, and Juwan Howard's impact on this team is underrated. He gets flamed for his poor rebounding and other little things, but overall he's had a big positive impact on our team.

If it's one mistake I think we did make, it's the Alston/MJ trade. I really thought Alston would become the pure PG we've been looking for, and perhaps he still can, but as of now he's infected with the "I'm a Rockets guard and I need to shoot even if I can't make 40% of my open shots" syndrome. He's great as an up-tempo PG, but when the offense scheme is as slow as ours, he's really gotta learn to control the tempo and create more ball movement on offense. 

As far as I'm concerned Mark Jackson was probably the last PG that knew how to get the ball to Yao on this team.

And yes, our team will get better once more chemistry builds and T-Mac returns 100%.


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## Hakeem (Aug 12, 2004)

Agree with pretty much everything you said, except for the "Mobley isn't a big upgrade over Wesley" bit. He's easily as good a defender, while also being a legitimate scoring threat. He is a bit of a hog, but I can live with that if he can give me a reasonably efficient 15-20 ppg.

And yeah, Mark Jackson could pass. One of the best passers ever, IMO. Pity he couldn't do much else. Except for that one time he errupted for something like 25 points at the age of 39.


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## CrackerJack (Jul 2, 2005)

what if you think of it like this - in a way we got T-Mac, Jon Barry, Rafer Alston & Juwan Howard for Cuttino Mobley, Steve Francis & Kelvin Cato, do you still believe the trade was worth as much?

Jon Barry - we received for Tyronn Lue from Atlanta
Rafer Alston - we traded reece gaines to milwaukee which brought in mike james who we then traded to the raps for Skip


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## kisstherim (Jul 15, 2004)

Hakeem said:


> Agree with pretty much everything you said, except for the "Mobley isn't a big upgrade over Wesley" bit. He's easily as good a defender, while also being a legitimate scoring threat. He is a bit of a hog, but I can live with that if he can give me a reasonably efficient 15-20 ppg.


Yes,that's also the only thing I don't agree with what YM said. Mobley is a more reliable and consistent shooter while DW is a streaky shooter. And Mobley is more athletic and quicker so he can do more penetration. But I don't agree with that "He's easily as good a defender"as DW, DW is much stronger so he often gave the guards he was defending lots of trouble, especially in last season. Maybe the only guard in the league he can't defend is Baron Davis cuz Baron is even stronger than him. DW is even able to defend some PFs when the team needs him to do so. Anyway,overall, having Mobley in stead of Wesley could be a substantial upgrade for us.


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## Yao Mania (Aug 4, 2003)

ok maybe I exaggerated that Mobley part a lil' bit too much... I was one of the biggest Mobley supporters around when he was here and even made a Mobley appreciation thread remember???

Biggest difference btw Mobley and DW right now would be their age. Mobley's arguably in his prime while DW's best years are behind him. Mobley's clearly the better player, but in terms of his impact on a team like this right now, I don't think he'd necessarily make a big difference in our win and loss column


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## edyzbasketball (Nov 16, 2005)

Don't get Francis back. He is too hoggy with that ball....

Let's make it this way. Mobley was a potent scorer, and played some good defence.
Cato was a good rebounder and defender, plus a potent shot blocker. He played good on the defensive wall, but at the offense, he kinda poured 4-6-8 points per game....

Juwan Howard is a good player, but he is kinda old. Bringing Emeka Okafor to the team for Howard and Derek Anderson would be excellent.

Maybe trading someone else for Alston would have been much better. The departure of Mike James really resulted in some bad chemistry....


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## Cometsbiggestfan (May 14, 2003)

If you're not counting the many turn-overs, the over dribbling, going to the Super Bowl when your team needs you, and ball-hogging, then sure, I miss Francis also.


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## 4ever_bball_fan (Aug 5, 2004)

I don't...


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## jdiggidy (Jun 21, 2003)

> no


WTF??? Blink4 had the correct response to this thread. Can't believe we are still talking about Steve Francis. AKA: Franchise, Steve O, Whinny Little no masked cursing - YM(Oh, that was my AKA for him.)


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