# Larry Hughes is stealing money from the Cavs



## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

Im watching the game and hes disgusting


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## TyGuy (Apr 19, 2003)

Our coach is doing this team no favors.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Yep


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

He might be one of the worst coaches I have ever seen. Mo Cheeks might be better.


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## LostInGeorgia (Jun 29, 2006)

i'm all for giving eric snow a promotion, he can coach and won't have to play anymore.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

LostInGeorgia said:


> i'm all for giving eric snow a promotion, he can coach and won't have to play anymore.


rofl


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Hughes is on fire now lol


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

LOL @ the timing of this thread. Hughes did look absolutely horrible but caught fire in the 4th qtr.

We'll see if it was an aberration or whether he is finally turning the corner..


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## Bron_Melo_ROY (Apr 12, 2004)

I still think Larry Hughes is a waste, and it'll take a lot for me to change my mind.


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

He's not playing well this year, to be sure.

But sometimes we just need a guy to catch fire for 5 minutes or so to get Lebron over the top. God knows Lebron almost wins us games singlehandedly every night anyway.

I'd rather have someone else, but tonight we saw that all he has to do is provide above average defense and get hot for a brief period of time and we have a chance.

And he certainly has improved his 3 point shot a lot this year. He should stop taking so many, but seeing as how he gets so many charges called on him I don't mind as long as he's hitting them.


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

What I don't understand is why Hughes has become such a jumpshooter. I seem to recall him being much more of a slasher in the past.


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Benedict_Boozer said:


> What I don't understand is why Hughes has become such a jumpshooter. I seem to recall him being much more of a slasher in the past.


I think the reason is twofold:

1) He's scared

2) He NEVER gets calls. When he does slash, I don't know if I've ever seen anyone get less respect from the referees. It's baffling sometimes because he really does get the short end of the stick as far as officiating goes. Consistently.


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## TyGuy (Apr 19, 2003)

Hughes is a pretty good shooter when he doesnt have to create off the dribble. I just would look to see plays ran for him where he could get the ball going to the hoop. He isnt the best finisher inside but he can be a nifty passer and gets sent to the line a lot.


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## AUNDRE (Jul 11, 2005)

TyGuy said:


> Hughes is a pretty good shooter when he doesnt have to create off the dribble. I just would look to see plays ran for him where he could get the ball going to the hoop. He isnt the best finisher inside but he can be a nifty passer and gets sent to the line a lot.


gets sent to the line alot?

rarely ever


and the only reason I can come up with to justify why he settles for J's now is hes still not 100% from the injury


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## TyGuy (Apr 19, 2003)

AUNDRE said:


> gets sent to the line alot?
> 
> rarely ever
> 
> ...


When he attacked the hoop, early and often last season, dude was going to the line a lot.


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

TyGuy said:


> Hughes is a pretty good shooter when he doesnt have to create off the dribble. I just would look to see plays ran for him where he could get the ball going to the hoop. He isnt the best finisher inside but he can be a nifty passer and gets sent to the line a lot.


This actually is something that could be stressed a little more.

Larry isn't a great shooter. But he's not as bad as it seems sometimes. We exaggerate how bad of a shooter he is because he's playing like a sissy. While the latter part is true, the former isn't so bad.

On outside jump shots, 82games.com gives the following numbers:

Larry: .432 eFG%
Lebron: .394 eFG%
Snow: .271 eFG% <--- just for fun
Gibson: .518 eFG%
Donyell: .456 eFG%
Sasha: .326 eFG%
Gooden: .405 eFG%
Z: .378 eFG%
Damon: .543 eFG%

So as far as "shooting" goes, he's about average on our team. Not as good as the pure shooters Damon, Gibson, and Donyell, but better than pretty much everyone else, including Lebron.

Look at Snow vs. Gibson, though. Startling.

If Gibson isn't making too many rookie mistakes and is playing good defense (as he has certainly been doing lately), Snow should not be starting over him. Period.


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## AUNDRE (Jul 11, 2005)

TyGuy said:


> When he attacked the hoop, early and often last season, dude was going to the line a lot.


even last year he wasnt getting to the line much

just over 5 FTs a game on average

this year just a little over 4


on the Wizards he was getting to the line about 8 times a game, he dosent get superstar treatment but youre right, he will get some calls if he goes back to slashing


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## TyGuy (Apr 19, 2003)

AUNDRE said:


> even last year he wasnt getting to the line much
> 
> just over 5 FTs a game on average
> 
> ...


Im not so sure about those numers. I remember hughes getting to the rim pretty regularly before he went down permanently with his finger injury. That to me was one of the better parts of his game, attacking and getting sent to the line.


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## AUNDRE (Jul 11, 2005)

TyGuy said:


> Im not so sure about those numers. I remember hughes getting to the rim pretty regularly before he went down permanently with his finger injury. That to me was one of the better parts of his game, attacking and getting sent to the line.


http://www.nba.com/playerfile/larry_hughes/career_stats.html

straight from NBA.com

just took the FTA's divided by the Games played


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## TyGuy (Apr 19, 2003)

Well he did have some games back that counted as games played towards the end where he didnt do beans, which of course would bump his attempts down.

Doesnt really matter though, when the guy slashes and sticks to jump shots he doesnt create for himself off the dribble, he is much more succesfull.


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

Brandname said:


> Look at Snow vs. Gibson, though. Startling.
> 
> If Gibson isn't making too many rookie mistakes and is playing good defense (as he has certainly been doing lately), Snow should not be starting over him. Period.


I posted those #'s in another thread. Not worth harping on the issue but yeah, Snow's role is pretty indefensible when you dig into the stats and consider how teams are defending James.

I don't see how the Vets can complain about it either when Gibson continues to produce time after time.


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## Larry Hughes for Retirement (Jul 5, 2004)

Brandname said:


> This actually is something that could be stressed a little more.
> 
> Larry isn't a great shooter. But he's not as bad as it seems sometimes. We exaggerate how bad of a shooter he is because he's playing like a sissy. While the latter part is true, the former isn't so bad.
> 
> ...


Bump


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## Najee (Apr 5, 2007)

*Larry Hughes*

If Larry Hughes is stealing money, it's because Cleveland overpaid for his services. Hughes has never been that good to deserve the coin he's getting from the Cavaliers and a general rule is never sign underachieving or chronically injured players in a contract drive to max money.

The Washington Wizards were not in the desperate situation Cleveland was in when Hughes became a free agent. The Wiz had Gilbert Arenas locked up already and Cleveland was trying to appease LeBron James by getting him help. 

With Hughes' injury history alone, you don't sign him to that kind of contract. Hughes even knew that and he further milked Cleveland by tying his incentives to team success, rather than personal success or games played (in essence, Hughes can miss 50 games but if the Cavs win 50 in a season he gets a huge bonus).


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## Zuca (Dec 4, 2003)

I was thinking about Kirilenko and his bad situation in Utah, and maybe Houston can be a good fit for him. I can see Adelman having a better use for his style than Sloan. At the same time, I think that Sloan would like Hughes style, since they have a good scoring PG in Deron and Hughes is a good defender. So that's a trade idea:


Cleveland trade Hughes to Utah;
Utah trade Gordan Giricek to Cleveland and AK to Houston;
Houston trade Battier to Utah, Alston and Bob Sura (expiring contract) to Cleveland;


Your team get rid of his big contract, while getting a useful (and expiring contract) SG in Giricek (although he is more suited to be a backup), Bob Sura may not even play, but have an expiring contract also, and Alston give to your team another PG option.

For Utah, Battier would be wonderful. Sloan would love him and he is a terrific fit there, especially with Okur and Boozer not being great defenders. Hughes also fit their team style.

Houston add in AK a good option that can play both PF and SF, good shotblocker.


And adding expiring contracts may ease the situation on Varejão also.


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

^I would love to dump Hughes, but i'm not super excited about that deal. 

It helps our cap situation, but with Gibson and the extensions for AV/Sasha, we will be over the cap regardless. I'd probably pass.

I would however, do an AK for Hughes swap. Utah needs a SG, LBJ can play the 2 and let AK play SF.


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## Zuca (Dec 4, 2003)

Benedict_Boozer said:


> ^I would love to dump Hughes, but i'm not super excited about that deal.
> 
> It helps our cap situation, but with Gibson and the extensions for AV/Sasha, we will be over the cap regardless. I'd probably pass.
> 
> I would however, do an AK for Hughes swap. Utah needs a SG, LBJ can play the 2 and let AK play SF.


I don't get it... You say that it help your team cap situation, but it's not like a big deal because Cavs will be over the cap anyways. But at the same time, you would like a Hughes for AK swap? It's even financially worst for your team, and would add even more difficult in the extensions/signings for the future...!


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Being over the cap is one thing but being way over causes problems as the owner has to match dollar for dollar so the further you go up the more painful it becomes


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## Zuca (Dec 4, 2003)

Pioneer10 said:


> Being over the cap is one thing but being way over causes problems as the owner has to match dollar for dollar so the further you go up the more painful it becomes


Agreed. That's why I think that in a Hughes trade, it's better for Cavs to get at least some expiring contract, than a big contract like AK.


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

Zuca said:


> I don't get it... You say that it help your team cap situation, but it's not like a big deal because Cavs will be over the cap anyways. But at the same time, you would like a Hughes for AK swap? It's even financially worst for your team, and would add even more difficult in the extensions/signings for the future...!


It's worse, but not that much worse. 

Kirilenko gets 14MM, 15MM, 16MM, 18MM
Hughes gets 13MM, 14MM, 16MM, 17MM

That's basically a wash. I see AK helping this team more than Hughes has, so if we're overpaying someone, i'd rather it be him. 

Again getting under the cap should be a non-issue for the Cavs until at the earliest 2009/2010 season - and even then depending on Gibson, Sasha, AV we still may not be signficantly under the cap.


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

The Cavs really need for Hughes to either find a way to contribute or get some sort of career ending injury.

Honestly Kirilenko might be better at the point than anyone the Cavs have.I don't think that's a joke either.He's actually played the point some in last year's playoffs and didn't look terrible.The same can't be said of anyone who played the point for Cleveland recently.


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## Zuca (Dec 4, 2003)

Benedict_Boozer said:


> It's worse, but not that much worse.
> 
> Kirilenko gets 14MM, 15MM, 16MM, 18MM
> Hughes gets 13MM, 14MM, 16MM, 17MM
> ...


Of course, if I'm offered an AK for Hughes swap, I'd take it (AK is better than Hughes), but my guess is if having cap space isn't better than this salary wash... You understand my point?


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

Zuca said:


> Of course, if I'm offered an AK for Hughes swap, I'd take it (AK is better than Hughes), but my guess is if having cap space isn't better than this salary wash... You understand my point?


Yeah it's definitely not a bad offer. From a GM's perspective your trade suggestion is probably more viable. 

I'm just not comfortable with our GM (Ferry) making the right decisions with cap space. I'd rather bring in players via trade or draft.


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