# Rip says "Not happening" to coming off the bench...



## Ruff Draft (Nov 21, 2004)

> Michael Curry has been hinting for a couple of weeks that a tough decision was going to have to be made because the Pistons' best chance to beat Boston and Cleveland is with a big lineup. It's pretty obvious that small-ball wasn't going to cut it. Curry's been throwing out names like Manu Ginobili and Lamar Odom, big-time players who are coming off the bench for elite teams.
> 
> But I don't think Rip is hearing any of it. Our exchange went something like this:
> 
> ...


http://info.detnews.com/redesign/blogs/pistonsblog/index.cfm?CFID=19655005&CFTOKEN=86634746

Is this goodbye from our mask-wearing friend?


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## ChrisWoj (May 17, 2005)

Goodbye? They just signed him to a four year contract extension. He is going nowhere. As for this... the final portion of that blog has a great idea: sure we can start the small fast lineup, but change things up 6 minutes in. Maybe 9 minutes in or even play them a full quarter IF (and only if) they're hot. But the rest of the night? Rotate the three guards.


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## Chan Ho Nam (Jan 9, 2007)

i say let Sheed come off the bench, this way he'll more likely take advantage of smaller opponents


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## MLKG (Aug 25, 2003)

Rip should be in the starting lineup. Iverson should come off the bench. He's much better suited for the role.


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## Ruff Draft (Nov 21, 2004)

MLKG said:


> Rip should be in the starting lineup. Iverson should come off the bench. He's much better suited for the role.


I agree. However, neither of these guy's attitudes with allow that to happen.


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## DANNY (Aug 9, 2005)

talk about ego quite disappointed in rip


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## Ruff Draft (Nov 21, 2004)

Joe needs to step in and take control. Immediately.


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## ChrisWoj (May 17, 2005)

Why? We're not going anywhere this year, that much has been obvious since the days following game four of this season. Let Curry learn or he'll never be a great coach.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

Looks like they'll both be starting tonight.


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## Ruff Draft (Nov 21, 2004)

Basel said:


> Looks like they'll both be starting tonight.


Where did you read that?


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

Ruff Draft said:


> Where did you read that?





> AUBURN HILLS -- Coach Michael Curry has decided on a familiar starting lineup for Tuesday's game against Charlotte -- with Richard Hamilton in it.
> 
> Curry said he'll start his small lineup of Rodney Stuckey and Allan Iverson in the backcourt, and Hamilton, Tayshaun Prince and Rasheed Wallace in the frontcourt.
> 
> ...


http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090113/SPORTS0102/901130422/1004/SPORTS


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## tr1986 (Nov 6, 2008)

i don't think that the billups trade is looking very good right now.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

Maybe Genius Joe should've anticipated a situation like this when he traded for AI.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

What a *******. I hate it when superstar players do this, but Rip isnt even a superstar, hes just a mask wearing baby.


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## MLKG (Aug 25, 2003)

I hate the small lineup. You have 5 big guys in Rasheed, McDyess, Amir, Maxiell, and Kwame that all deserve minutes. Every minute the small lineup is out there is a minute 4 of those guys don't get to play.

It's not so much that I don't think those 5 guys can play together, it's that it throws our bench rotation into complete dissaray.

I thought Curry wasn't going to cowtail to this kind of stuff?


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## Ruff Draft (Nov 21, 2004)

Well, here comes another Rip injury.


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## jvanbusk (Jun 9, 2002)

Haha, I love the tone of this thread.

Far be it for the captain of the team, the guy who just signed a contract extension, has been the leader of the team for longer than anybody else has even been on the team, to not want to come off the bench.


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## ChrisWoj (May 17, 2005)

I agree with you JVB. I continually find it hilarious that I'm the most positive about random things like this, Michael Curry, etc. and yet I'm the one here that thinks the least of our playoff chances. There's a disconnect here somewhere, lol.


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## Ruff Draft (Nov 21, 2004)

jvanbusk said:


> Haha, I love the tone of this thread.
> 
> Far be it for the captain of the team, the guy who just signed a contract extension, has been the leader of the team for longer than anybody else has even been on the team, to not want to come off the bench.


It's obvious he isn't who he used to be, and doesn't want to be that player either.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Hes getting paid to do what the coach tells him to do. Maybe hes been hanging out with AI too much.


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## ChrisWoj (May 17, 2005)

Ruff Draft said:


> It's obvious he isn't who he used to be, and doesn't want to be that player either.


The guy whose point guard hit him in his spots? It has become FAIRLY OBVIOUS that neither AI nor Stuckey is hitting him in stride off of his curls and screens like Chauncey did. His game is based on timing, catching the ball in his rhythm and shooting. He is NOT the problem, the problem is lack of familiarity with the guys making things happen with the ball. An entire season under the belt with Stuckey at the helm and by this point next year he'll look like the Rip of old. That is an iron-clad lock.


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## Coatesvillain (Jul 17, 2002)

R-Star said:


> Hes getting paid to do what the coach tells him to do. Maybe hes been hanging out with AI too much.


He's not hanging out with AI at all.


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## Ruff Draft (Nov 21, 2004)

ChrisWoj said:


> The guy whose point guard hit him in his spots? It has become FAIRLY OBVIOUS that neither AI nor Stuckey is hitting him in stride off of his curls and screens like Chauncey did. His game is based on timing, catching the ball in his rhythm and shooting. He is NOT the problem, the problem is lack of familiarity with the guys making things happen with the ball. An entire season under the belt with Stuckey at the helm and by this point next year he'll look like the Rip of old. That is an iron-clad lock.


A.I. and Stuckey have become very hgood together on the floor. What you would rather us do is get rid of A.I. and keep Rip? I just feel this team can do more if we have A.I. It's Rip's task to fit around it all.


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## Spaceman Spiff (Aug 2, 2006)

Just bring Stuckey off the bench. If not get on the phone and look for 60cents on the $ for Rip.


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## Sliccat (Oct 16, 2004)

ChrisWoj said:


> The guy whose point guard hit him in his spots? It has become FAIRLY OBVIOUS that neither AI nor Stuckey is hitting him in stride off of his curls and screens like Chauncey did. His game is based on timing, catching the ball in his rhythm and shooting. He is NOT the problem, the problem is lack of familiarity with the guys making things happen with the ball. An entire season under the belt with Stuckey at the helm and by this point next year he'll look like the Rip of old. That is an iron-clad lock.


It's nothing close to a lock.Stuckey and Billups are two completely different players, and to just assume that Rip's relationship with Stuckey is going to return to what it was with Billups is stupid. Specifically, Stuckey is so much more of a penetrator that it creates less opportunity for Rip to begin with. The AI experiment has already proved that Rip, at least now, isn't very good at the receiving end of drive-and-kick situations.



> A.I. and Stuckey have become very hgood together on the floor. What you would rather us do is get rid of A.I. and keep Rip? I just feel this team can do more if we have A.I. It's Rip's task to fit around it all.


AI is five years older than Rip, it makes no sense to get rid of him when there's a very good chance AI won't be around anyways. You only trade Rip if it makes you younger AND bigger. Otherwise, it's not smart to trade the future to make a rental more comfortable. That's another reason why Hamilton should probably be starting over AI instead of with him.


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## DANNY (Aug 9, 2005)

just to piss him off, curry should insert him into the starting 5, play him for a minute and bench him for rest of the game. that should teach him a lesson.


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## ChrisWoj (May 17, 2005)

DANNY said:


> just to piss him off, curry should insert him into the starting 5, play him for a minute and bench him for rest of the game. that should teach him a lesson.


No, that would cause friction in the locker room.


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## ChrisWoj (May 17, 2005)

Sliccat said:


> It's nothing close to a lock.Stuckey and Billups are two completely different players, and to just assume that Rip's relationship with Stuckey is going to return to what it was with Billups is stupid. Specifically, Stuckey is so much more of a penetrator that it creates less opportunity for Rip to begin with. The AI experiment has already proved that Rip, at least now, isn't very good at the receiving end of drive-and-kick situations.


True. Drive and kick isn't what he's good at. He's good at running through the paint, through screens, getting the ball where he's comfortable and popping for points. Stuckey is not Billups, but just by playing with Rip enough he'll begin to understand WHERE Rip wants the ball. It'll happen if they play together enough. Even rec league players pick up on things like this. Tonight I was playing with a point that I never play with in pickup ball, I *NEVER* got the ball where I was comfortable and every shot seemed to rattle in and out. Why? I just wasn't getting the ball at the spot I am comfortable with. But with other REC LEAGUE POINT GUARDS that I play with regularly I don't have this issue.

If some rec league bozos can get this sort of cohesion, Stuckey and Rip can.


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## jvanbusk (Jun 9, 2002)

Ruff Draft said:


> What you would rather us do is get rid of A.I. and keep Rip?


Really? Yes.

I just don't get it. You would rather trade Rip Hamilton than A.I., whose most value is in the fact he won't be here next year?

By the way, someone brought up trading Rip, to get bigger. I'll go along with that, if it's the right player. Not somebody like Chris Kaman, doing that would really set this franchise back.


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## jvanbusk (Jun 9, 2002)

R-Star said:


> Hes getting paid to do what the coach tells him to do. Maybe hes been hanging out with AI too much.


I'm not sure, I feel like if you polled players similar to Rip Hamilton, about going to a bench role you would get similar sentiment. 

Like I said, we're talking about the captain of the team, and an argument could be made that he is still the best player on the team. I'm not sure there are many of those types at any level coming off the bench.

For what it's worth, you guys know that Michael Curry hasn't talked to Rip about coming off the bench yet, right? This is a conversation that happened between Rip and a reporter.

And as an aside, maybe Chauncey and Tay for Carmelo would have worked out? Just throwing it out there, I know Melo has been hurting all year.


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## Ruff Draft (Nov 21, 2004)

I just think A.I. can do more for us than Rip can. We've always lacked someone that explosive, and we'll need it comes playoffs. Rip is our weakest link IMO. If AI will come off the bench, then I am all set as well. I'm just tired of small-ball all together. This team can't do it.


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## Ruff Draft (Nov 21, 2004)

Rip has actually changed his mind in an article as well. He says he'll do whatever the team needs him to do. 

I just want wins. Plain and simple.


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## jvanbusk (Jun 9, 2002)

Ruff Draft said:


> I just think A.I. can do more for us than Rip can. We've always lacked someone that explosive, and we'll need it comes playoffs. Rip is our weakest link IMO. If AI will come off the bench, then I am all set as well. I'm just tired of small-ball all together. This team can't do it.


What about Rodney Stuckey?

I personally think the biggest problem of the small-ball lineup is actually Tayshaun at the 4. And at the risk of being chastised, I would rather see Tayshaun go to the bench, than Rip Hamilton. I may be the only one that thinks so, but playing Tayshaun so many minutes right now is absolutely going to kill this team come playoff time. To me he has looked worn down in the playoffs now the last couple of years. What's going to happen this year, when he didn't even have any time off the previous summer?

So I think as far as bench candidates:
1. Iverson, I think we would all love the instant aggressive scoring he would bring off the bench.
2. Tayshaun
3. Rip
4. Stuckey


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## Sliccat (Oct 16, 2004)

ChrisWoj said:


> True. Drive and kick isn't what he's good at. He's good at running through the paint, through screens, getting the ball where he's comfortable and popping for points. Stuckey is not Billups, but just by playing with Rip enough he'll begin to understand WHERE Rip wants the ball. It'll happen if they play together enough. Even rec league players pick up on things like this. Tonight I was playing with a point that I never play with in pickup ball, I *NEVER* got the ball where I was comfortable and every shot seemed to rattle in and out. Why? I just wasn't getting the ball at the spot I am comfortable with. But with other REC LEAGUE POINT GUARDS that I play with regularly I don't have this issue.
> 
> If some rec league bozos can get this sort of cohesion, Stuckey and Rip can.


DTwo-player games have much more to do with style that memorization of routes. Billups worked so well with Hamilton in part because Billups was, excellent post-up game aside, primarily a perimeter player. He was nowhere near the slasher stuckey is, and wasn't looking to drive as much. Some of Hamilton's problems may be solved with time, but that's rarely how the league works. Players who are going to click usually do so fairly quickly, not after playing with each other for nearly a full season.


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## Sliccat (Oct 16, 2004)

jvanbusk said:


> What about Rodney Stuckey?
> 
> I personally think the biggest problem of the small-ball lineup is actually Tayshaun at the 4. And at the risk of being chastised, I would rather see Tayshaun go to the bench, than Rip Hamilton. I may be the only one that thinks so, but playing Tayshaun so many minutes right now is absolutely going to kill this team come playoff time. To me he has looked worn down in the playoffs now the last couple of years. What's going to happen this year, when he didn't even have any time off the previous summer?
> 
> ...


The performance of stuckey and the pistons with him starting vs. coming off the bench has proved that he should start. At this point, he's outplaying everybody else on the team (except possibly Prince). Prince and Wallace are too valuable as defenders of their positions to come of the bench. AI and rip are the practical candidates.

I want them to tell AI to come of the bench and go for 40 every night. He's just obviously not as comfortable around so many other scorers.


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## Ruff Draft (Nov 21, 2004)

Rip gets absolutely abused at the three. Tayshaun was having great games playing the 4. His rebounding is at career highs and he showd no signs of slowing down at all.


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## Ruff Draft (Nov 21, 2004)

Tayshaun does need plenty of rest though, definitely a drop od like 10-15 minutes for a week or two.


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## Sliccat (Oct 16, 2004)

Ruff Draft said:


> Rip gets absolutely abused at the three. Tayshaun was having great games playing the 4. His rebounding is at career highs and he showd no signs of slowing down at all.


Yes, but he can't box out effectively or play even above-average defense against strong forwards. He works hard at the four but is a much better asset at the 3.


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## Ruff Draft (Nov 21, 2004)

Oh yes, absolutely. Rip at the three is the bigger problem though.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

I'd be more inclined to put Rip on the bench. His offense is predicated on coming off screens and being set up for good looks, therefore he'd get a lot more plays called for him on the second unit, with lesser offensive players.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

I disagree. Iverson is a damn rental for the rest of the year. Bench his butt and don't alienate the guy you're going with in the years to come. Make Iverson the sixth man and be done with it.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

I'm sorry, I was under the impression Curry was trying to win games and maximize his player's production. But I guess I agree, if you have to appease a player at a dime a dozen position, at all costs, do it.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

They were winning games just fine before Iverson joined the team. Why would you appease Iverson when he's a rental in the first place? Why can't Iverson come off the bench and be the little gunner he wants to be?


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