# Yao Getting Shaq-Like



## Ming_7_6

*[B]Yao Getting Shaq-Like[/B]*

Apparently according to recent reports out of China, Yao has gained a massive amount of upper body strength this Summer, adding about 22 pounds of muscle to his chest and arms.

Now here is something to think about.

Yao at age 24 is now said to be 330 plus range with about 7 percent body fat, while Shaq is said to be about 330 with 12 percent body fat currently.


Also, remember how big Shaq got with the Lakers up to about 360-380.


Shaq weighed 303 during his rookie year, Yao weighed about 314 according to Rockets during his, even though he was listed at 296.

Now, here are two interesting pics to look at, Shaq age 21, Yao age 21, at least so claimed.....


Yao

http://tinypic.com/b64kmv.jpg


Shaq

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/features/shaq/timeline/1/shaq04_lg-01.jpg


Bradley even went from about 230 at his draft weighing to about 280 by age 30.........


Evidence shows Yao will be an even more physically dominating behemoth than Shaq was.


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## reHEATed

too bad Yao hasnt shown he is able to use his physical strengh. Shaq has the mindset and had the mindset of going over/through anybody in front of him to dunk the ball. Yao has talent, but still likes to take those jumpers, which he is good at, but isnt able to dominate the way shaq does because of it. He has the potential to be something special. He has to get the killer mindset though

also, shaqs footwork is what seperates him from all the other tall large people. Yao hasnt shown enough of that either


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## Seuss

Someone lock this thread so he doesn't start comparing Yao to Shaq. Yao is so overrated. But he does have potiential. I think he'll be a superstar in two years. But right now hes overrated.

Wow, I'm just asking to get 5 thousand chinese fans on my back. Oh well.


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## JT

when you compare yao to shaq, in any way you are overrating him. close this topic. shaq is so much stronger, quicker, faster and just plain meaner than yao its not even funny.


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## tone wone

"we dont beleive; you need more people" - Jay-Z
-edit-

Yao has no upper body..all his mass and strength is in his legs.

McGrady is buffer than him...hell, KG is buffer


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## JT

oh yes, tone wone


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## Ming_7_6

How do you haters explain this photographic evidence then???


Two latest images of Yao from China........


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/cd/Yao_Ming_7_6336.jpg


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/9b/Yaominga.jpg


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## urwhatueati8god

SunsFan57 said:


> Someone lock this thread so he doesn't start comparing Yao to Shaq. Yao is so overrated. But he does have potiential. I think he'll be a superstar in two years. But right now hes overrated.
> 
> Wow, I'm just asking to get 5 thousand chinese fans on my back. Oh well.


Agreed. There's no way at this point in time that this schmuck should be starting in an All-Star Game over Amare Stoudemire. Hell, I'd sooner take Brad Miller.


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## tone wone

Ming_7_6 said:


> How do you haters explain this photographic evidence then???
> 
> 
> Two latest images of Yao from China........
> 
> 
> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/cd/Yao_Ming_7_6336.jpg
> 
> 
> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/9b/Yaominga.jpg


 as i said...all of Yao's mass comes from his lower body. Going by what i've this past season and those pics you posted...Yao upper body isn't that developed


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## urwhatueati8god

Ming_7_6 said:


> How do you haters explain this photographic evidence then???
> 
> 
> Two latest images of Yao from China........
> 
> 
> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/cd/Yao_Ming_7_6336.jpg
> 
> 
> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/9b/Yaominga.jpg


What exactly is this evidence supposed to prove? He looks of decent structure to me, but there's also an obvious lack of definition. I would once again rather have Brad Miller or Amare Stoudemire.


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## The_Black_Pinoy

Please.


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## Sir Patchwork

Shaq was bullying NBA centers the second he stepped on the floor in the NBA. At the same age, he was a million times quicker than Yao, a million times more agile, and a lot stronger as well. He also knew how to apply his abilities better. 

Some of Shaq's strength also comes with his ability to move it. A train going 5 MPH isn't going to cause as much damage as one going 100 MPH. Shaq at the same age moved his weight incredibly well. Stiff was never a word you could use for Shaq. Sadly, Yao is a stiff. He has great touch, great feel for the game, great talent, understand, etc. He just isn't the physical specimen that Shaq was. Shaq is the most physically gifted player of all time.


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## Ming_7_6

You don't think adding 22 pound sin his chest and arms of muslce will help him?


Also Brad Miller over Yao? You just lost all credibility.


And Yao will OWN Amare this year with his addes stamina, addes strength and Swift next to him.


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## reHEATed

a dunker next to him wont help him much. He needs a rebounder who could hit the midrange shot.


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## UD40

Compare Yao and Big Z then this may be a discussable topic. Shaq is so much better than Yao its not even funny. Because he's 7'6" doesnt mean he's like Shaq, this is the bad thing with the media these days, get anybody with a shred of talent thats over 7'2", and they'll be "the next Shaq". And you have experts saying Yao is so great, he leads the all-star voting over Shaq...the only point too that is more people like Yao than they like Shaq. Apprently they didnt notice people like us vote for the all-stars, not on who plays well or by numbers.


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## Pioneer10

In Yao defense he's does look bigger in the arms. Be curious if he added any bulk to his core areas. He seemed to lack strenght not in his arms last year but in his trunk and abdomen so even though he had good lower body strength, physical centers still seemed to jostle him out of position


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## VTRapsfan

wadeshaqeddie said:


> a dunker next to him wont help him much. He needs a rebounder who could hit the midrange shot.


In short, he needs a Udonis Haslem clone.

Yao looks like he has bulked up to me, but no matter how strong he is, he can't be taught Shaq's aggressiveness. He has to develop that on his own.


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## SeaNet

IF he has gained mass and strength in his upper body this will be very good for him. IMO, one of his main problems was an inability to straighten himself out in the post to make himself the huge target he can and should be, due to his lack of upper body strength.

This, however, will not make him anything at all like Shaq.


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## reHEATed

RaptorsCB4 said:


> In short, he needs a Udonis Haslem clone.
> 
> Yao looks like he has bulked up to me, but no matter how strong he is, he can't be taught Shaq's aggressiveness. He has to develop that on his own.


UD is one of those. Joe Smith, Kenny Thomas, Kurt Thomas also. These are just guys that seem to compliment star big men really well.


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## sherwin

Ming_7_6 said:


> Apparently according to recent reports out of China, Yao has gained a massive amount of upper body strength this Summer, adding about 22 pounds of muscle to his chest and arms.
> 
> Now here is something to think about.
> 
> Yao at age 24 is now said to be 330 plus range with about 7 percent body fat, while Shaq is said to be about 330 with 12 percent body fat currently.
> 
> 
> Also, remember how big Shaq got with the Lakers up to about 360-380.
> 
> 
> Shaq weighed 303 during his rookie year, Yao weighed about 314 according to Rockets during his, even though he was listed at 296.
> 
> Now, here are two interesting pics to look at, Shaq age 21, Yao age 21, at least so claimed.....
> 
> 
> Yao
> 
> http://tinypic.com/b64kmv.jpg
> 
> 
> Shaq
> 
> http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/features/shaq/timeline/1/shaq04_lg-01.jpg
> 
> 
> Bradley even went from about 230 at his draft weighing to about 280 by age 30.........
> 
> 
> Evidence shows Yao will be an even more physically dominating behemoth than Shaq was.


Doesnt' matter, Shaq was simply a beast in strength and Yao isn't. Body weight is an overrated indicator.


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## Blazer Freak

Ming_7_6 said:


> You don't think adding 22 pound sin his chest and arms of muslce will help him?
> 
> 
> Also Brad Miller over Yao? You just lost all credibility.
> 
> 
> And Yao will OWN Amare this year with his addes stamina, addes strength and Swift next to him.


The only reason that Yao is even in the damn All-Star game is because China is allowed to vote. Yao is still too slow, and he still is only going to play 30-35mpg . Yao will never own Amare because Yao is a *****, he just doesn't attack the rim. If Amare is 2 feet away, he's dunking it, if Yao is two feet away and someone is between him and the basket, he's hooking it. Until he figures out how to overpower everyone like Amare and Shaq, he's not going to be much better than last year.


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## Clutch777

SunsFan57 said:


> Someone lock this thread so he doesn't start comparing Yao to Shaq. Yao is so overrated. But he does have potiential. I think he'll be a superstar in two years. But right now hes overrated.
> 
> Wow, I'm just asking to get 5 thousand chinese fans on my back. Oh well.


If anything, Yao is underrated. Mathematically speaking, he would have averaged 22 points, 11 rebounds, and 2.5 blocks per game if he stayed out of foul trouble and played 36 minutes a game. Compair that to Shaq's number in the past two years :biggrin: 

People first started labeling him as overrated in his rookie season, which was true. Yao definately did not deserve to start at center over Shaq in the all star game. But as Yao steadily got better over the past three years, everyone's mindset had not changed. On top of that, Yao does not kill your team with missed freethrows in crunch time like other big men in the game and comes into every game and every practice with a good attitude as well as other intangibles someone like Shaq will never provide.


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## Mavericks_Fan

urwhatueati8god said:


> Agreed. There's no way at this point in time that this schmuck should be starting in an All-Star Game over Amare Stoudemire. Hell, I'd sooner take Brad Miller.


Wow, harsh. I'll agree that Yao has a long way to go to fully utilize his potential, but calling him a schmuck is not fair.

Yao is a good player. Not dominant, but he's good.


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## Tobias

Damn, everyone in this thread sure has been drinking more than their share of Haterade.


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## Shady*

No one will be able to call him a bust or bad or whatever they call him.


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## ralaw

Ming_7_6 said:


> Evidence shows Yao will be an even more physically dominating behemoth than Shaq was.


It's to bad this "physically dominating behemoth" plays like a PUNK!


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## Dodigago

Dodigago said:


> the picture says it all


the kid is dead!!!!  

You see what you made me do :curse: :curse: :curse: 

I dont know how you all can live with yourselfs!!!


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## Seuss

Clutch777 said:


> If anything, Yao is underrated. Mathematically speaking, he would have averaged 22 points, 11 rebounds, and 2.5 blocks per game if he stayed out of foul trouble and played 36 minutes a game. Compair that to Shaq's number in the past two years :biggrin:



Mathematically doesn't count. Sorry. 

Plus, that just shows you Yao isn't a smart player. If he was smart he wouldn't pick up ticky-tack fouls.

Shaq says it and I'm gonna say it. He makes 'em count. Remember in the playoffs against Portland he made 9 in a row?


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## Cap

Yao Ming will never be half the player Shaq was in his 20's, let alone his prime. Maybe Yao can be half as good as 35 year old Shaq. Maybe.


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## Hakeem

The hate really is flowing freely in this thread. Brad Miller? Just shut up. 

But the Shaq comparisons need to stop. "Yao is as heavy as Shaq while having less body fat therefore he is better" is terrible logic.

He does look bigger, though.


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## tone wone

see, when you compare Yao to Shaq that just leaves Yao open to take all the unfair criticism he gets.

If he was never compared to shaq no one would have anything to bash


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## P33r~

So many haters in this thread. Brad Miller :laugh:

Yao gains more pounds and strength, and now people are criticizing him for it.


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## DuMa

he does look bigger. but shaq he is not....

i like this progress by yao... we can finally see what he can do after a summer of non-basketball related duties. lots more energy for him this season


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## Bron_Melo_ROY

Yao might be as heavy as Shaq but seems to lack upper body strength and will never dominate like Shaq. What he needs beside him is a Udonis type, as mentioned before, to take some pressure off of him primarily on defense. Juwan Howard was an even bigger liability than Yao on defense and often putting Yao into a bad situation and having to make up for the slack (which he can't do). Hopefully Stromile can do something other than dunk and maybe play defense.


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## Hakeem

Yao is not a liability on defense.


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## JNice

urwhatueati8god said:


> What exactly is this evidence supposed to prove? He looks of decent structure to me, but there's also an obvious lack of definition. I would once again rather have Brad Miller or Amare Stoudemire.



Defenition really means nothing in terms of strength. In that second picture, Yao's arms are very noticeably bigger than they used to be. I think that added strength, and the summer off from basketball, will most definitely help Yao.

In terms of comparing him to Shaq - it is never going to happen. Shaq was special because of his incredible agility, fluidity, and athleticism for his monstrous size. While Yao moves pretty well for his own massive size, he is still nowhere near Shaq in that area. In reality, there hasn't really ever been another player with Shaq's massive size that was the athlete he was.

But saying Yao would be lucky to be half the player Shaq is at 35 .. what? Yao is easily already at least half the player Shaq is. Come on ...


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## socco

:nonono:


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## urwhatueati8god

Ming_7_6 said:


> You don't think adding 22 pound sin his chest and arms of muslce will help him?
> 
> 
> Also Brad Miller over Yao? You just lost all credibility.
> 
> 
> And Yao will OWN Amare this year with his addes stamina, addes strength and Swift next to him.


Imagine a guy who can't even spell "adds" speaking on credibility.

Brad Miller

15.6 ppg 9.3 rpg 3.9 apg 52.4 fg% 1.23 spg 1.21 bpg 3.2 pfpg .812 ft% 1.46 topg 23.71 eff

Yao Ming

18.3 ppg 8.4 rpg .8 apg 55.2 fg% .43 spg 2.00 bpg 3.3 pfpg .800 ft% 2.35 topg 20.6 eff

Yao's a slightly better shooter, while Miller is a better passer, better rebounder, and better ballhandler. So far, Miller is better. Don't get me wrong, I like Yao. I defended the Yao pick and told everyone that it would be Jay "I don't know what the hell I want my first name to be" Williams who would be a bust. Given the unfortunate circumstances, I was right. I'm a hockey fan first and foremost. I like good, physical play. I want Yao to be a great player because to me, nothing beats the physical play of two big guys battling it out in the post. However, he isn't living up to his full potential. Somebody needs to go and bust his balls because there is no reason for a person with his size not to be averaging a double-double a game. To be 7'5" and only play a mid-range game is rediculous. It doesn't matter if you and I think he can do it, if he doesn't do it then it's all water under the bridge.


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## HeinzGuderian

The amount of improvement a player makes over the summer is so underrated. I think it's great he's had more time this year.


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## Yao Mania

Tobias said:


> Damn, everyone in this thread sure has been drinking more than their share of Haterade.


yah what's up with all the hate, yikes....


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## Clutch777

SunsFan57 said:


> Mathematically doesn't count. Sorry.
> 
> Plus, that just shows you Yao isn't a smart player. If he was smart he wouldn't pick up ticky-tack fouls.
> 
> Shaq says it and I'm gonna say it. He makes 'em count. Remember in the playoffs against Portland he made 9 in a row?


LOL you're saying Shaq's "Ill make it when it counts" weighs more than statistics?

Everyone gets lucky once in a while. I can also name 20 playoff games when shaq missed clutch free throws :lol:


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## Hakeem

urwhatueati8god said:


> Yao's a slightly better shooter, while Miller is a better passer, better rebounder, and better ballhandler. So far, Miller is better.


Nah. Stats aren't very good for comparing players' overall ability, but if you're going to bring them out, why not use PER instead of efficiency? It's mainly a measure of offensive and rebounding prowess, and it's a much more accurate stat than efficiency. Yao's PER is 23.2. Miller's is 20.7. That's not even considering defense, at which Yao is considerably better.
Miller plays nearly 7 mpg more than Yao. You have to give him credit for that, but you can't simply look at their per game numbers. Miller has more rpg, but that doesn't mean he is a better rebounder. Rebound rate is a better stat. It shows the percentage of missed shots that a player grabs. Yao's rebound rate is 15.9, while Miller's is 13.9.
Miller gets so many assists because of his team's system. Yao would have a similarly impressive assist average if he were on the Kings. 
Yao also scores more than Miller, while drawing more doubles and playing fewer minutes. He also scores more efficiently.


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## Banjoriddim

Hakeem said:


> Nah. Stats aren't very good for comparing players' overall ability, but if you're going to bring them out, why not use PER instead of efficiency? It's mainly a measure of offensive and rebounding prowess, and it's a much more accurate stat than efficiency. Yao's PER is 23.2. Miller's is 20.7. That's not even considering defense, at which Yao is considerably better.
> Miller plays nearly 7 mpg more than Yao. You have to give him credit for that, but you can't simply look at their per game numbers. Miller has more rpg, but that doesn't mean he is a better rebounder. Rebound rate is a better stat. It shows the percentage of missed shots that a player grabs. Yao's rebound rate is 15.9, while Miller's is 13.9.
> Miller gets so many assists because of his team's system. Yao would have a similarly impressive assist average if he were on the Kings.
> Yao also scores more than Miller, while drawing more doubles and playing fewer minutes. He also scores more efficiently.


Agreed :yes: 
I mean in 03-04 Boozer had more rebounds per/minutes than Shaq is he better rebounder? 

And about the thread the title is OK and thats it  

...and Dear Huston fans DON't compere Yao with Shaq I mean Yao will never have the same physical attributes and that isn't HES FAULT.
He is very good player but he is so tall that hes size hurts him a bit still he is giving hes best so DON'T help haters don't compere him with Shaq.


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## Osballa23

I like yoa but i do not think he will ever become Shaq like....


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## The_Franchise

urwhatueati8god said:


> I'm a hockey fan first and foremost. I like good, physical play. I want Yao to be a great player because to me, nothing beats the physical play of two big guys battling it out in the post.


Hey, check this site out: http://www.hfboards.com/

You can talk all you want about how Brad Miller would defeat Yao in a 1v1 cage match.


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## Drewbs

Yao can't be compared to Shaq. Shaq is very mobile and very athletic. Yao is not very mobile, and is not very athletic. He'll never be the dominant force that Shaq was.


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## rebelsun

Whether he plays like Shaq remains to be seen, but it doesn't appear upper body strength will be an issue any more.


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## ApheLion02

This thread pisses me of quite badly. People can't seem to be objective when it comes to Yao. You have ridiculous maniacs calling him Shaq based on a few pictures, then normally respectable posters take the other route and compare him to no-names like Miller or Illgauskas. Why can't people just accept the fact that he is a good player yet to realize his full potential instead of either buying into his incredible hype or reacting against it. Take him for the player he is.


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## Seuss

We know hes a good player. But will never match Shaq.


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## JT

> Miller gets so many assists because of his team's system. Yao would have a similarly impressive assist average if he were on the Kings.


umm, no he wouldn't. brad miller is a better passer than yao, thats not even arguable. just because yao makes one nice pass every two games, doesn't mean anything.



> Whether he plays like Shaq remains to be seen,


nothing needs to be seen, i already know he will never average 29/13/2/3 on 60% shooting (shaq's sophomore year). i foresee him doing slightly better than last year, but still he will be getting rik smits comparisons.


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## Mr. Hobbes

Yao will never be better than Shaq- don't kid yourselves. Shaquille O'Neal has been the MDE for the past 10+ years and possibly ever (discuss) Yao hasn't even had a season where he played remotely close to Shaq's efficiency. Shaq's presence changes a whole game and how the other team plays defense- all Yao does is draw the occasional double team. Yao's stamina isn't his biggest flaw (although it is a huge one)- his mindset is. His baseline spin could be one of the most feared moves if he works on it. He's got wide hips like a woman, you'd think he could use it to some effect.

You can't compare Miller to Yao because they're playing style is so different. Miller is a player who hits open shots when his teammates find him. His gets his assists because he faces the basket when he plays, so don't admire his passing ability. Miller will never change a game as much as Yao, and he will never be recognized as a scoring threat, because he can't create for himself.


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## rebelsun

sherako said:


> *i already know* he will never average 29/13/2/3 on 60% shooting (shaq's sophomore year)


why don't you share your time travel equipment with the rest of the world?


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## sherwin

Blazer Freak said:


> The only reason that Yao is even in the damn All-Star game is because China is allowed to vote. Yao is still too slow, and he still is only going to play 30-35mpg . Yao will never own Amare because Yao is a *****, he just doesn't attack the rim. If Amare is 2 feet away, he's dunking it, if Yao is two feet away and someone is between him and the basket, he's hooking it. Until he figures out how to overpower everyone like Amare and Shaq, he's not going to be much better than last year.


There you go spewing off ignorance. Yao still beat Shaq counting only US votes.


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## Seuss

You have proof?


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## Mr. Hobbes

How many times does this have to be said: Shaq lead in internet polls, and Yao led in paper ballots. So don't tell me millions of Chinese people went to U.S. just to cast a vote in an arena.


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## tempe85

sherwin said:


> There you go spewing off ignorance. Yao still beat Shaq counting only US votes.


Do you know how many chinese live in the US?


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## Ming_7_6

I am sorry. I apologize for this thread. I had no idea that people were so touchy about Yao. I had no idea that so many b-ball fans bashed him as much as the ESPN/TNT "experts" do.............


Stephen A. Smith:

"I feel sorry for Tracy McGrady ya'll. I have no idea what that boy must be thinking now. I mean damn can he get some help yet down there in Houston? Can a 7-6 guy named Yaooooooooooo, Yaoooooooooooo, Ming, give a brother any help already or not? I'm sorry, T-Mac's ma boy, but Yaooooooooooo Minnnnnnnnnnnnnnnng is showin' me NOTHIN', I mean NOTHIN' at all. What the hell was that? What was that we just saw?"

Tim Legler: "Hold on now, you didn't just give Yao a Rashoooooooo did you? You aren't comparing Yao to Rasho now are you?"

Stephen A. Smith: "What comparing him to Rasho? No, don't insult Rasho like that, from what I'm seeing Yao Ming ain't even as good as Shawn Bradley."

Tim Legler: "Wait a minute now, Yao's a good player, come on now, let's not get carried away here."

Stephen A. Smith: "Yaooooooooooooo Meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaakkkkkkkkkkkkkkk, is showin' me NOTHIN', PERIOD! End of discussion, that's it!"


Stephen A. Smith's view on Yao after a game in which he just had 33 points, 10 rebounds, and 5 blocks.


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## tempe85

Ming_7_6 said:


> I am sorry. I apologize for this thread. I had no idea that people were so touchy about Yao. I had no idea that so many b-ball fans bashed him as much as the ESPN/TNT "experts" do.............


Yep people are "bashing" him as you call it because they don't believe (nor do I) that Yao will ever approach being as good as Shaq.


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## Drewbs

sherako said:


> umm, no he wouldn't. *brad miller is a better passer than yao, thats not even arguable. just because yao makes one nice pass every two games, doesn't mean anything.*
> 
> nothing needs to be seen, i already know he will never average 29/13/2/3 on 60% shooting (shaq's sophomore year). i foresee him doing slightly better than last year, but still he will be getting rik smits comparisons.


Theres a reason for that. The Kings run thier motion offense through the post. When Miller gets the ball in the post, players play off the ball, make cuts and Miller finds them. The Rockets don't play that style, Yao never has the ball in his hands to facilitate the offense because McGrady dominates the ball, leaving Yao to be more of a finisher than creator.


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## Dynasty Raider

Hi Ming:

Respectfully speaking ... those pics of Yao shows me that he needs to live in the US, hire a personal trainer and copy Shaq's workout plan.

Apparently, the plan he is using has focused on his calves ... they seem larger. There is hint of a little definition in the biceps, but not nearly enough definition if he has been working out during the entire off-season. There is absolutely NO indication that he has done anything to buildup his chest, shoulders or neck area. Not that he needs a footballer's neck, but there should be some signs of working out. My Asian friends don't believe in definition as an indication of strength and maybe that is what is happening with Yao --- building strength without the muscle. I don't know.

I like that he is running, we all know that he needs the cardio ... but it is building the muscles in his legs. Maybe he should do a little pilates to stretch the muscles in his calves.

Short story ... I think he needs to weight train here in the States.


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## Dynasty Raider

Ming_7_6 said:


> I am sorry. I apologize for this thread. I had no idea that people were so touchy about Yao. I had no idea that so many b-ball fans bashed him as much as the ESPN/TNT "experts" do.............


First ... don't be sorry. Our 'experts' are only experts in their own minds. While Detroit was leading the Lakers by three games, they were still saying that the Lakers were going to take the championship and they were looking at the same games that we were.

I think most of us are totally disappointed in Yao's development. Frankly, we expected much, much more than we've gotten from him. We wanted to see some competition for Shaq, and now ... Shaq is in his declining years and it won't even matter if Yao improves because there won't be any competition for him (in the hearts of those that wanted to see him compete with Shaq 2-3 years ago.)

We don't except his excuse of having to play ball for his country in the off season --- he's a professionally paid athlete here in the States, and we expected to be his priority. But ...

As tall as Yao is ... he simply has not shown the ability to do the simple things like blocking shots, snatching rebounds, defending in the paint and making the easy baskets. Because, he's usually exhausted when it counts.

These attacks are not personal, I don't think. Just frustrated observations. Hopefully, for the fans that still hold some belief in Yao, his efforts over the summer will payoff on the court this season.

(BTW, I like Yao but I'm also disappointed.)


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## Ming_7_6

I think 22 pounds of muscle gain in upper body over less than a full summer off is damn good. Name ONE player that does that?

Seriously.

I've never heard of anything like that from ANY player in that mount of time. There has NEVER been any such claim made of any player gaining that amount of upper body mass with more than 2 months till the season even starts.

The most I EVER heard of was about 25 for an ENTIRE offseason.

People are being really unfair against yao on this one.

This should be a MAJOR change in Yao's game.


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## Dynasty Raider

Ming_7_6 said:


> I think 22 pounds of muscle gain in upper body over less than a full summer off is damn good. Name ONE player that does that?
> 
> Seriously.
> 
> I've never heard of anything like that from ANY player in that mount of time. There has NEVER been any such claim made of any player gaining that amount of upper body mass with more than 2 months till the season even starts.
> 
> The most I EVER heard of was about 25 for an ENTIRE offseason.
> 
> People are being really unfair against yao on this one.
> 
> This should be a MAJOR change in Yao's game.


All I'm saying is ... if that is true ... the 22 lbs of muscle is not in the upper body, but in his calves.

I can't argue the factual portions of it because we only have the photos and the words of a writer ... which, personally, I have little belief in everything I read; only partial belief.

That's it ... not arguing. Just my point of view.


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## Ming_7_6

They made VERy clear that the gained weight is in his UPPER body.


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## Mr. Hobbes

tempe85 said:


> Do you know how many chinese live in the US?


Do you know how many non-Chinese live in U.S.?


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## Mr. Hobbes

Ming_7_6 said:


> I think 22 pounds of muscle gain in upper body over less than a full summer off is damn good. Name ONE player that does that?


Bret Boone. On steroids.


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## VTRapsfan

P33r~ said:


> So many haters in this thread. Brad Miller :laugh:
> 
> Yao gains more pounds and strength, and now people are criticizing him for it.


Most of us aren't criticizing him for gaining strength, we're criticizing the people who say he will be equal to or better than Shaq, or criticizing Yao for not being aggressive enough. I'm impressed that he gained that much muscle, but he still doesn't have Shaq's athleticism or attitude. But I agree that he is better than Brad Miller (not Amare though).


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## Hakeem

Dynasty Raider said:


> Apparently, the plan he is using has focused on his calves ... they seem larger. There is hint of a little definition in the biceps, but not nearly enough definition if he has been working out during the entire off-season.


Doesn't definition come with a low level of body fat? I don't think it has anything to do with strength. Look at weightlifters...


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## JNice

Dynasty Raider said:


> Apparently, the plan he is using has focused on his calves ... they seem larger. There is hint of a little definition in the biceps, but not nearly enough definition if he has been working out during the entire off-season. There is absolutely NO indication that he has done anything to buildup his chest, shoulders or neck area. Not that he needs a footballer's neck, but there should be some signs of working out. My Asian friends don't believe in definition as an indication of strength and maybe that is what is happening with Yao --- building strength without the muscle. I don't know.



Huh? That pic in this thread of him walking out of the gym clearly shows him much thicker in the upper body. I don't understand why people keep talking about definition. That has nothing to do with strength and muscle mass gained. Definition is more of an indicator of percentage of body fat than anything else. He most definitely looks bigger. Probably not the 22lbs as stated - but I think off-season muscle gains, like NBA player heights, for young players are always overstated.


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## KokoTheMonkey

Ming_7_6 said:


> People are being really unfair against yao on this one.
> 
> This should be a MAJOR change in Yao's game.



Well, maybe it's the fact that people are saying "I have to see it to believe it", and there's nothing wrong with that. I could make a thread about Tony Parker supposedly learning how to knock down jumpers with his eyes closed and nobody is going to believe it until they see him do it on the court. Same concept for Yao. Okay, he's added upper body strength, I'll have to wait and see how he does before I get too excited about him.


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## tone wone

if his minutes go up...everything else will take care of itself


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## zhaizor

tempe85 said:


> Do you know how many chinese live in the US?


And do you understand the question?


Blazer Freak said:


> The *only* reason that Yao is even in the damn All-Star game is *because China is allowed to vote*.



So what difference does it make, do you know how many black people live in the US? Thanks for being a complete ignorant ***. Yeah, I'm chinese, I'm a Yao fan, who did *I* vote for? SHAQ. Why? because he is a BETTER player at the moment, and he clearly deserves to start. 

k thanks now **** off


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## GoDWade

zhaizor said:


> And do you understand the question?
> 
> 
> 
> So what difference does it make, do you know how many black people live in the US? Thanks for being a complete ignorant ***. Yeah, I'm chinese, I'm a Yao fan, who did *I* vote for? SHAQ. Why? because he is a BETTER player at the moment, and he clearly deserves to start.
> 
> k thanks now **** off



while I am not sure the poster you are responding to wanted to go to the race route, at least for me I share the sentiment in that Amare should have started for the western all-stars


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## The_Franchise

Dynasty Raider said:


> As tall as Yao is ... he simply has not shown the ability to do the simple things like blocking shots, *snatching rebounds*, defending in the paint and making the easy baskets. Because, he's usually exhausted when it counts.


That's about the only thing right in that paragraph. He ended up averaging 2 bpg after a slow start, was one of the best man to man defenders in the paint (http://www.82games.com/04HOU22C.HTM) and is extremely efficient once he has the ball close to the basket. It's almost a guaranteed basket, whether he dunks it or not. 56.8 eFG% close to the basket (http://www.82games.com/04HOU22A.HTM). Compare that to 57.2% for Amare or 56.4% for Shaq.


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## The_Franchise

The comments by the 15 and under posters in this thread are helping the argument that this site needs a minimum age limit.


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## GoDWade

Mr. Roger's Cardigan said:


> The comments by the 15 and under posters in this thread are helping the argument that this site needs a minimum age limit.



there is no need to say that


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## Dynasty Raider

JNice said:


> Huh? That pic in this thread of him walking out of the gym clearly shows him much thicker in the upper body. I don't understand why people keep talking about definition. That has nothing to do with strength and muscle mass gained. Definition is more of an indicator of percentage of body fat than anything else. He most definitely looks bigger. Probably not the 22lbs as stated - but I think off-season muscle gains, like NBA player heights, for young players are always overstated.



Did you not read this part of my post?

"My Asian friends don't believe in definition as an indication of strength and maybe that is what is happening with Yao --- building strength without the muscle. *I don't know.*"

Huh?


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## Dynasty Raider

Mr. Roger's Cardigan said:


> That's about the only thing right in that paragraph. He ended up averaging 2 bpg after a slow start, was one of the best man to man defenders in the paint (http://www.82games.com/04HOU22C.HTM) and is extremely efficient once he has the ball close to the basket. It's almost a guaranteed basket, whether he dunks it or not. 56.8 eFG% close to the basket (http://www.82games.com/04HOU22A.HTM). Compare that to 57.2% for Amare or 56.4% for Shaq.


Thanks for the stats quotes. Obviously, I'm not a stats person; merely an observer. And, through my observations, none of those stats were applied when it counted. Maybe next season, with improved cardio they will be there at the end of games.


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## JNice

Dynasty Raider said:


> Did you not read this part of my post?
> 
> "My Asian friends don't believe in definition as an indication of strength and maybe that is what is happening with Yao --- building strength without the muscle. *I don't know.*"
> 
> Huh?



Sure, I read the whole post, including this part:



> There is hint of a little definition in the biceps, but not nearly enough definition if he has been working out during the entire off-season. There is absolutely NO indication that he has done anything to buildup his chest, shoulders or neck area. Not that he needs a footballer's neck, but there should be some signs of working out.


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## Hakeem

Dynasty Raider said:


> Thanks for the stats quotes. Obviously, I'm not a stats person; merely an observer. And, through my observations, none of those stats were applied when it counted. Maybe next season, with improved cardio they will be there at the end of games.


Actually, according to that same website, in the fourth quarter or overtime with less than 5 minutes left and neither team ahead by more than 5 points (i.e. clutch situations, "end of games", "when it counted"), Yao, on average, scored more on a per minute basis than he did during the rest of the game, and shot at 10% higher from the field (with a remarkable .652 fg%).


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## Dynasty Raider

Hakeem said:


> Actually, according to that same website, in the fourth quarter or overtime with less than 5 minutes left and neither team ahead by more than 5 points (i.e. clutch situations, "end of games", "when it counted"), Yao, on average, scored more on a per minute basis than he did during the rest of the game, and shot at 10% higher from the field (with a remarkable .652 fg%).


Now ... THAT is a surprise.

Thanks ... maybe other skeptics will be converted. I wonder why he looked so deficient with those stats. I guess we'll all be paying more attention next season, especially with the added strength.


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## urwhatueati8god

Ming_7_6 said:


> I am sorry. I apologize for this thread. I had no idea that people were so touchy about Yao. I had no idea that so many b-ball fans bashed him as much as the ESPN/TNT "experts" do.............
> 
> 
> Stephen A. Smith:
> 
> "I feel sorry for Tracy McGrady ya'll. I have no idea what that boy must be thinking now. I mean damn can he get some help yet down there in Houston? Can a 7-6 guy named Yaooooooooooo, Yaoooooooooooo, Ming, give a brother any help already or not? I'm sorry, T-Mac's ma boy, but Yaooooooooooo Minnnnnnnnnnnnnnnng is showin' me NOTHIN', I mean NOTHIN' at all. What the hell was that? What was that we just saw?"
> 
> Tim Legler: "Hold on now, you didn't just give Yao a Rashoooooooo did you? You aren't comparing Yao to Rasho now are you?"
> 
> Stephen A. Smith: "What comparing him to Rasho? No, don't insult Rasho like that, from what I'm seeing Yao Ming ain't even as good as Shawn Bradley."
> 
> Tim Legler: "Wait a minute now, Yao's a good player, come on now, let's not get carried away here."
> 
> Stephen A. Smith: "Yaooooooooooooo Meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaakkkkkkkkkkkkkkk, is showin' me NOTHIN', PERIOD! End of discussion, that's it!"
> 
> 
> Stephen A. Smith's view on Yao after a game in which he just dropped 35 points 12 rebounds and 5 blocks.



More proof that Steven A. Smith should have his nuts tortured by a hairy gay 350 pound dominatrix wielding a forty watt soldering iron.


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## sabirk

Here are some new Pics.


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## P33r~

GoDWade said:


> there is no need to say that


Yes there is. Some of the stuff people say here pisses me off. And why the hell are these young people trying to play the race card?



SunsFan57 said:


> Wow, I'm just asking to get 5 thousand chinese fans on my back. Oh well.


 Stfu. I'm sick of the ignorance on this site. Noone says "Wow i criticised Shaq, i'm asking to get 10000 blacks on my back."


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## WONTONnPHO

This bashing is disgusting and uncalled for. I HATE ALL OF YOU YAO BASHERS(whom don't have a valid point) !!!!! :curse: :curse: :curse:


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## Spriggan

Stop comparing Yao to Shaq. You're just begging for him to get flamed.

Good player? Certainly. Shaq? Laughable. It's always been a laughable comparison. Yao has nowhere near the physical attributes to be a Shaquille O'Neal. He can build up all the muscle he wants, but he'll never come close to having Shaq's agility and quickness on top of that mass.

This thread has shown me two things: that both Shaq (amazingly) and Yao are underrated.


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## The Main Man

Ming_7_6 said:


> I am sorry. I apologize for this thread. I had no idea that people were so touchy about Yao. I had no idea that so many b-ball fans bashed him as much as the ESPN/TNT "experts" do.............
> 
> 
> *Stephen A. Smith's view on Yao after a game in which he just dropped 35 points 12 rebounds and 5 blocks*.


Yao never had that stat line last season.


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## GoDWade

Spriggan said:


> This thread has shown me two things: that both Shaq (amazingly) and Yao are underrated.


sarcasm?


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## Spriggan

GoDWade said:


> sarcasm?


No?


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## Nash2Amare

Ming_7_6 said:


> You don't think adding 22 pound sin his chest and arms of muslce will help him?
> 
> 
> Also Brad Miller over Yao? You just lost all credibility.
> 
> 
> And Yao will OWN Amare this year with his addes stamina, addes strength and Swift next to him.


_And Yao will OWN Amare this year with his addes stamina, addes strength and Swift next to him_

:eek8: 

And with THAT post, YOU just lost all credibility.


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## farhan007

SunsFan57 said:


> Mathematically doesn't count. Sorry.


yes it does.... you cant just denounce something like that... atleast give explinations why


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## farhan007

tempe85 said:


> Do you know how many chinese live in the US?


but the white and black population is pretty respectable in the U.S. also....


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## The_Franchise

Dynasty Raider said:


> Thanks for the stats quotes. Obviously, I'm not a stats person; merely an observer. And, through my observations, none of those stats were applied when it counted. Maybe next season, with improved cardio they will be there at the end of games.


I'm definitely not a stats person, but because Yao played so poorly on national TV last season I had to bring out some evidence. I could talk all I wanted about how he impacts the game when he is on the court and how he is overutilized on defense, underutilized on offense etc. but until people see some hardcore statistical proof they will continue to ignore him.


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## Dynasty Raider

Mr. Roger's Cardigan said:


> I'm definitely not a stats person, but because Yao played so poorly on national TV last season ... until people see some hardcore statistical proof they will continue to ignore him.


Yeah, I only get to see him on national TV, and that is exactly what I thought. So, again ... thanks.


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## Ming_7_6

My mistake, it was 33 10 and 5

http://www.nba.com/games/20050507/HOUDAL/boxscore.html?nav=page


And yes those were Stephen A. Smith's comments on Yao's performance.


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## The Main Man

Well, Yao did play 43 minutes. And it was a 40 point blow out loss. I don't remember how the defense was playing Yao in that game.


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## GoDWade

The Main Man said:


> Well, Yao did play 43 minutes. And it was a 40 point blow out loss. I don't remember how the defense was playing Yao in that game.


and Stephen A. could have been talking about the whole series ("help T-Mac out!") rather than just that game, and in that series T-Mac clearly did everything


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## Jamel Irief

Ming_7_6 said:


> Shaq
> 
> http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/features/shaq/timeline/1/shaq04_lg-01.jpg
> 
> 
> Bradley even went from about 230 at his draft weighing to about 280 by age 30.........
> 
> 
> Evidence shows Yao will be an even more physically dominating behemoth than Shaq was.


Nice evidence. Shaq at age 21 was a 2nd year orlando magic player. Not at LSU. In your pic he is no older than 19 since he turned 20 after his final collegiate game.



Mr. Roger's Cardigan said:


> I'm definitely not a stats person, but because Yao played so poorly on national TV last season I had to bring out some evidence. I could talk all I wanted about how he impacts the game when he is on the court and how he is overutilized on defense, underutilized on offense etc. but until people see some hardcore statistical proof they will continue to ignore him.


Anybody who knows what eFG% is is a stats person.


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## ApheLion02

Jamel Irief said:


> Anybody who knows what eFG% is is a stats person.


Wow. An ad hominem attack impugning the credibility of a poster based upon his lack of ignorance.


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## Cap

ApheLion02 said:


> Wow. An ad hominem attack impugning the credibility of a poster based upon his lack of ignorance.


I don't see the ad hominem.


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## Ming_7_6

Definitely some "definition" in his arms in this pic:


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/be/U687P6T12D1744886F44DT20050830153244.JPG

I see some definition in his arms here, even a vein slightly popping out, and yes his arms look much bigger. Seems people questioning this and seeing "no definiton" are wrong.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/0e/3_050830130606.jpg


Here is clearly shown to be considerably bigger and more muscular than he was last NBA season.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d1/U338P6T12D1745195F44DT20050830233111.jpg


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## ApheLion02

EHL said:


> I don't see the ad hominem.


 using "stats person" to label a person rather than address his points is ad hominem.


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## Ming_7_6

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/41/U338P6T12D1745235F44DT20050831004722.jpg


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