# Wennington Rips Robinson



## C Blizzy (Nov 13, 2003)

Bill Wennington chose his pre-game radio show Wednesday night to compare Eddie Robinson's current status with the Bulls to his experience in Dallas when John McCloud chose to play Uwe Blab ahead of him. Wennington talked about how it became clear at some point that he was never going to get any playing time. However he felt obligated to work as hard as he could at practice and before ballgames to make himself as good a player as he could be. He felt a comittment to his teammates to prepare himself in case he was ever called on to step up. And his personal pride demanded that he comport himself in a professional manner at all times to demonstrate to the public and the media that he wanted to be a player and a contributor in this league. He then went on to say that he simply couldn't understand why Robinson has chosen to openly defy his coach, why he's refused to work to improve himself as a player and why he's failed to do everything in his power to prove to those around him, including the coaching staff that he wants to be a part of turning around the fortunes of his team.

He concluded his remarks by apologizing to Carmen DeFalco for going off on a tangent. But it was very clear that he thoroughly disapproves of Robinson's personal conduct this season. From Bill's perspective it was extremely clear to anyone listening that he views Robinson's conduct as unprofessional and counterproductive to the team's success. He concluded by saying that in contrast to Robinson's unprofessional behavior and his lack of comittment to himself and his organization, he's proud of the fact that all the hard work he put into developing his talents and abilities translated into a 15 year career and three world championship rings.

Anyone who knows Wennington or who has listened to him as the Bulls radio broadcaster with Neil Funk knows that he's not the kind of person who's quick to criticize anyone in the organization so harshly. He's been a goodwill ambassador for the Bulls for some time. He's very approachable, so much so that he'll spend a lot of time with fans before games talking about just about anything they're interested in. He is, to put it mildly, one of the nicest guys you'll ever meet. For him to publicly rip a Bulls player in this manner suggests that Robinson has been way out of line when it comes to taking his job seriously. Interestingly, DeFalco agreed with him and rationalized Robinson's behavior by stating that this is the kind of thing that can happen with some players who sign long term, guarranteed, big money contracts.

Earlier we heard that some of Robinson's teammates think he should be playing despite his poor work ethic. Well, here's the other side of the coin, and a very different perspective from a former NBA player and a member of the media, both of whom are close to the team and who see many things that go on around the ballclub that aren't always reported on by the media.


----------



## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

While we're at it...

Let's rip Pippen for not even attending last night's game...

Let's rip Tyson for having eye surgery and even then not attending games...

Skiles has lost this team...

Eddie Robinson isn't the only player on this team who seems to be willing to work, the problem is deeper than E-Rob.

I think a lot of things have happened that we won't hear about in the media and whatever it is has effected this franchise from the front office to the court.

Let's not act like ERob is a weed in the middle of a patch of roses.

The whole patch is ****.


----------



## Benny the Bull (Jul 25, 2002)

I agree 100% with Wennington on this.


----------



## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

Lets him make him the GM


----------



## C Blizzy (Nov 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>arenas809</b>!
> While we're at it...
> 
> Let's rip Pippen for not even attending last night's game...
> ...


None of the injured Bulls - Tyson Chandler, Antonio Davis, Jerome Williams, Scottie Pippen or Kendall Gill - bothered to make the trip.

http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/sports_story.asp?intID=38092128

Davis can be excused because of a sprained knee. But there's no excuse for the rest of them to miss Wednesday's game. I can't believe that Chandler couldn't have scheduled his eye surgery _after_ the season ended. As for Pippen, Gill and Williams, they should have been on the Bulls bench...no if's and's or but's.

So while I agree with your assessment, it has absolutely nothing to do with this thread. If you want to start a thread about the failings of the Bulls veteran players be my guest. But stop poisoning this and every other thread with your _obsessive_ need to blame everything short of 9/11 on Skiles and/or Paxson. Take a hint, arenas...the horse is dead.


----------



## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>C Blizzy</b>!
> 
> 
> None of the injured Bulls - Tyson Chandler, Antonio Davis, Jerome Williams, Scottie Pippen or Kendall Gill - bothered to make the trip.
> ...


I'm just saying ERob isn't the only person that should be ripped, if i'm poisoning your thread then seriously I won't respond at all to anymore of your posts.

I find it funny you'd say you agree with what I'm saying, yet I'm poisoning the thread?


----------



## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

Something I was not aware of until reading this thread is that part about Tyson. He was not there because he had his eye surgery! What the heck is that? You are telling me that could not wait until the season was over? I mean heck have it sometime next week. Jesus talk about not caring. As for Wenningtons comments towards Robinson, I say good for you Bill! Tell it like it is!


----------



## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>IntheBlinkofaDeng</b>!
> Something I was not aware of until reading this thread is that part about Tyson. He was not there because he had his eye surgery! What the heck is that? You are telling me that could not wait until the season was over? I mean heck have it sometime next week. Jesus talk about not caring. As for Wenningtons comments towards Robinson, I say good for you Bill! Tell it like it is!


I definitely agree with what Bill is saying...

I just feel what's really going wrong with this team is deeper than ERob, ERob is just one piece of the problem pie.


----------



## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

You are right. There are more problems than just ERob. However Bill never said that he was all of the problems. The thread and the comments were about Erob. Lets just keep this thread focused on that.


----------



## C Blizzy (Nov 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>arenas809</b>!
> 
> 
> I'm just saying ERob isn't the only person that should be ripped, if i'm poisoning your thread then seriously I won't respond at all to anymore of your posts.
> ...


That's an unnecessary, though I'm sure, intentionally overreactive response. Try taking the time to re-read my statement. I simply acknowledged that your point about other players has merit, but that the subject matter of this thread is Wennington's perception of Robinson. And on an entirely separate matter I asked you to pursue your vendetta against Skiles somewhere else. The point is, if I decide to start a thread that has nothing to do with critiquing management, I'd appreciate it if you would stop circumventing the subject matter by introducing issues that allow you to turn the thread into a platform for you to once again persecute Skiles and/or Paxson. Why don't you make it easy on everyone on this board and start a "I Hate Skiles and Paxson and Here's Why" thread and allow other thread topics to stay on target.


----------



## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

Chandlers back was still bothering him anyway and he wouldn't have played so why NOT have the eye surgery?


----------



## Kneepad (Jun 24, 2002)

I, too, heard Wennington's comments, and agree 100% with what he said. How can you not?



> Originally posted by <b>arenas809</b>!
> I just feel what's really going wrong with this team is deeper than ERob, ERob is just one piece of the problem pie.


Which begs the question-- why would Wennington single out E-Rob in the manner he did?


----------



## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Kneepad</b>!
> I, too, heard Wennington's comments, and agree 100% with what he said. How can you not?
> 
> 
> Which begs the question-- why would Wennington single out E-Rob in the manner he did?


I'm not sure...

Obviously we're not privy to all the information so this is a tough situation...

I've said all along when it came to ERob, he played for about 2 months and produced for about 2 months, suddenly he was no longer in the rotation at all, that's just hard to understand.

I remember him saying he was not going to talk to Skiles about playing time, and I don't blame him. If he's out there doing his job like he was, he shouldn't have to beg to play nor should he have to prove himself, I would say he did if he was out there and not producing, not playing hard, but he was, what more do we want him to do?


----------



## RetroDreams (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Kneepad</b>!
> I, too, heard Wennington's comments, and agree 100% with what he said. How can you not?
> 
> 
> Which begs the question-- why would Wennington single out E-Rob in the manner he did?


While I think Wennington was being brutally honest, and while I would like to have heard more concrete examples instead of this general complaint that is being made, I can think of a couple reasons why he would single out Eddie.

Here are three off the top of my head:

1) He works for the Chicago Bulls. Lets face it, if Bill went elsewhere, he wouldn't have the posh gig he has, not to mention he wants a coaching or front office gig in the future as I've heard his name bantered about.

2) He is good friends with both Paxson and Skiles. Birds of a feather, stick together.

3) The "new" Bulls organization has made it clear that they do not like Krause's people that he brough it. That goes from his draft picks, to his trades, to his free agent signings.

That's just three. I'm sure others could come up with more.


----------



## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>RetroDreams</b>!
> 
> 
> While I think Wennington was being brutally honest, and while I would like to have heard more concrete examples instead of this general complaint that is being made, I can think of a couple reasons why he would single out Eddie.
> ...


While these all may be true, I'd give more credence to what Bill has to say over <i>any</i> of the armchair quarterbacks of BB.net. Do you concur?


----------



## RetroDreams (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>superdave</b>!
> 
> 
> While these all may be true, I'd give more credence to what Bill has to say over <i>any</i> of the armchair quarterbacks of BB.net. Do you concur?


Of course, but you can only trust someone so far, especially when the following conditions are in place. Not to mention, why would you do this when you've made it publically clear that you are trying to get the Bobcats to take him off your hands?

Like I said, I don't want Eddie here and I didn't want us to sign Eddie. Such is life, but I don't like the way that the Bulls are absolutely rendering him worthless. They've beaten down Fizer the same way and Fizer has shown what happens when you give him playing time.


----------



## TRUTHHURTS (Mar 1, 2003)

I think you have to take everything that comes from the Bulls broadcasting teams with a grain of salt .The only person that ever truly speaks their minds and disagrees with a decision made by the Bulls is Norm .Everyone else from Dore,Larivee,Kerr,de falco,Wennington and all the rest will never openly criticize the Bulls.Anything coming from those guys is gonna have a managment slant to it right or wrong .


----------



## TwinkieTowers (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>superdave</b>!
> 
> 
> While these all may be true, I'd give more credence to what Bill has to say over <i>any</i> of the armchair quarterbacks of BB.net. Do you concur?


I agree wholeheartedly.


----------



## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

OK guys, I think we could all afford to take a step back.

Arenas is right in that there's lots of blame to go around. And honestly, he didn't even mention Paxson in his post.

And more to the point, it's a valid observation that we've been focusing on ERob when there's this other stuff going on too (although Arenas has, himself, been a leader in putting the focus on the ERob situation to the exclusion of other stuff!) 

But all that being said, just because there are other things deserving of attention doesn't mean every thread needs to be hijacked in another direction. The Erob story is well worth talking about as far as I can tell.

I think Wennington's got a point, but at the same time I'm not sure what he went through sitting behind Uwe Blab is really all that comparable. Maybe it is... it just seems like at that point they were both fresh faces on the bench. Neither of them were doing all that much. In ERob's situation, he was first put in an offense he had no business being put into and then second was benched after playing pretty well for a buch of guys who didn't play very well.

Obviously ERob can't be excused for giving up and acting like a bum, but it seems to me that we shouldn't be putting players in a situation where they want to give up in the first place.


----------



## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

I just love how when anyone speaks an ill word about any our Bulls players, we seem to do everything in our power to discredit the source. Everything. Bill f'n Wennington.

He's not saying anything new here. He's saying the same things Pippen, Gill and JYD have said before. He's echoed sentiments and utterings from Skiles and Paxson. <b> When so many people close to the situation are saying the same thing you think maybe there's a shred of truth behind it?</b>

I guess there's some conspiracy against eRob going here by the entire Bulls organization, its players, its beatwriters, and some of its fans. eRob is clearly the victim here right? Eh :no:


----------



## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>superdave</b>!
> I just love how when anyone speaks an ill word about any our Bulls players, we seem to do everything in our power to discredit the source. Everything. Bill f'n Wennington.
> 
> He's not saying anything new here. He's saying the same things Pippen, Gill and JYD have said before. He's echoed sentiments and utterings from Skiles and Paxson. <b> When so many people close to the situation are saying the same thing you think maybe there's a shred of truth behind it?</b>
> ...


i agree superdave. and to those who would defend and support and bemoan the e-rob situation in any way all i will say is this:

enablers. enablers. enablers. 

cue music:

VERY SUPERSTITIOUS...WRITING'S ON THE WALL.


----------



## RetroDreams (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>superdave</b>!
> I just love how when anyone speaks an ill word about any our Bulls players, we seem to do everything in our power to discredit the source. Everything. Bill f'n Wennington.
> 
> He's not saying anything new here. He's saying the same things Pippen, Gill and JYD have said before. He's echoed sentiments and utterings from Skiles and Paxson. <b> When so many people close to the situation are saying the same thing you think maybe there's a shred of truth behind it?</b>
> ...


Not a victim, but not the villian they make him out to be either. 

You don't go from being a major contributor and playing 27.5mpg to playing in 3 games the next month unless something else happens. You just don't. Call it what you want, I call it bull****.


----------



## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>RetroDreams</b>!
> 
> 
> Not a victim, but not the villian they make him out to be either.
> ...


Cry me a river. eRob was a major contributor at precisely the time he should have been, that is, the weeks leading up to the February trade deadline. Something happened all right between him and Skiles, but you know what? It doesn't matter.

Spats between players and coaches happen all the time. Good players overcome it, so to speak, and show their value as team players. Think Arenas and Musselman. Tinsley and Carlisle. Heck, AI and Brown for grins. The difference is eRob has chosen not to work and flame out to the media. Real class act.


----------



## L.O.B (Jun 13, 2002)

We have been talking about Erob and his sitting for alot longer than we have actually witnessed great play. It doesn't matter weither he has sat due to countless injury or the fact that Pax and Skiles think he's a loser. We are still talking about what if's w/ ERobbery. Erobb is the only one that can get him playing time. 

Pax and Skiles have been riding ERob for months, Cartwright rode Erob prior, ERobb was hurt for Floyd. One thing has stayed the same, ERobb's butt on the bench. Erob is emmensely talented and if he gave a damn he could be a starter. He doesn't give a damn and any decent executive would either move him(very difficult) or sit him or ir him. Why wasn't he IR'd, can a player refuse?


----------



## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Don't worry folks.

The NBDL is probably full of players that Skiles hasn't lost yet.


----------



## giusd (Apr 17, 2003)

I still don't quite understand. EROB makes 7 million dollars a year and when asked to practice harder and follow the directions of the coach he says take a hike. In most other professions he would be fired for insuborination and be on the street.

He got into a yelling augment with the coach and told the orignization to f off. He does not do what the team and coach ask him to do but he still gets his 7 million dollars a year.

I must just be stupid because in my life i would be hearing the famous words "your fired".

  

If it wasn't for the collective barginning agreement he would be on the street but in light of that he will be doing nothing but sitting on the bench until his contract is up. I am sure he thinks it's a funny joke but i don't. There are alot of people struggling to make ends meet but not erob.

david


----------



## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>RetroDreams</b>!
> You don't go from being a major contributor and playing 27.5mpg to playing in 3 games the next month unless something else happens. You just don't. Call it what you want, I call it bull****.


I've been saying this for the longest, and Retro people will continue to annoy it because they have no answer/explanation for it.


----------



## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>giusd</b>!
> He got into a yelling augment with the coach and told the orignization to f off.


When did this happen?

(This answer should be good)


----------



## fl_flash (Aug 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>RetroDreams</b>!
> 
> 
> Not a victim, but not the villian they make him out to be either.
> ...


I think calling E-Rob a major contributor is something of a stretch. Be that as it is, could it be that his time that he played was something of another motivation tactic by Skiles to try to get him to improve himself? Then, when it was apparent that nothing at all had changed in how he approached the game or even that E-Rob became even more of a slacker at practice Skiles simply had had it and sat him? Why are there so many excuses for the guy? It seems pretty clear that he's not doing whats been asked of him. I'm pretty sure that what's been asked of him is nothing out of the ordinary and he simply refuses to do that. If that's the case, he sits. It's pretty simple. Talent be damned. 

I'm just having a hard time with all these people who supposedly have been involved in team sports on these boards who support this clown. Wennington has it right. Even if you aren't playing, you still work to be ready for the off chance that you might get the call. If nothing else, keep yourself sharp for that time when you can finally leave and get an opportunity somewhere else. This isn't on Skiles to make E-Rob a better player. It's all on E-Rob and if he's too dense to realize that he's blowing millions of future dollars because he's too damn stupid to realize that HE'S the one hurting his own market value then tough.

My stance is if the guy doens't come ready to play at the start of training camp, the Bulls should simply tell him to stay at home. Don't come to practice. Don't come to games and don't travel with the team. This organization has given him MULTIPLE chances to straighten up and apparently things haven't changed.


----------



## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>arenas809</b>!
> 
> 
> I've been saying this for the longest, and Retro people will continue to annoy it because they have no answer/explanation for it.


Spats between coaches and players happen ALL THE TIME in the NBA. When a player is making millions upon millions like eRob, the only tool a coach has is to limit playing time.

How about answering this question. How has eRob reacted?


----------



## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>DaBullz</b>!
> Don't worry folks.
> 
> The NBDL is probably full of players that Skiles hasn't lost yet.


I find it ridiculous I could say this earlier in the thread and be told that I'm poisoning the thread.

JYD, Gill, AD, TC all MIA at the last game of the season...

ERob is glued to the end of the bench and doesn't even get to play in the last game where we have 7 healthy players (counting him)?...

Something is going way wrong here...


----------



## fl_flash (Aug 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>arenas809</b>!
> 
> 
> I've been saying this for the longest, and Retro people will continue to annoy it because they have no answer/explanation for it.


I notice that you have no answer/explanation for it either. Seems to me that there have been plenty of scenarios laid out as very plausible reasons for E-Robs situation. Your choice is not to believe any of them because if you did it would invalidate your position on Skiles.

So, since you have all the answers and are so all-knowing, why don't you educate us pions who can't seem to comprehend things with the clairty that you do. Please, do us all the favor and explain to us why E-Rob was benched.

As you say - this should be good.


----------



## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>fl_flash</b>!
> 
> 
> I notice that you have no answer/explanation for it either. Seems to me that there have been plenty of scenarios laid out as very plausible reasons for E-Robs situation. Your choice is not to believe any of them because if you did it would invalidate your position on Skiles.
> ...


it's peons not pions   lol


----------



## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>fl_flash</b>!
> 
> 
> I notice that you have no answer/explanation for it either. Seems to me that there have been plenty of scenarios laid out as very plausible reasons for E-Robs situation. Your choice is not to believe any of them because if you did it would invalidate your position on Skiles.
> ...


No I don't have an answer for why a guy was playing and producing and suddenly stopped playing for no reason.

It doesn't make sense to me.

I don't care about being wrong, if you're proven wrong on something so be it, this board here and these topics aren't life and death, but as fans we can look into things and discuss them.


Difference between me and you is I can discuss them and not make things personal. You seem to look for my posts and then come at me with these smart *** remarks, and your "son" remark.

If you consider yourself a peon (at least spell it right), then you said it..

Not me.


----------



## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

The bottom line with E-Rob is he doesn't want to give any extra effort and he admitted that he is "afraid to drive the lane". He has an entitlement mentality and Skiles and Paxson don't.


----------



## RetroDreams (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>superdave</b>!
> 
> 
> Cry me a river. eRob was a major contributor at precisely the time he should have been, that is, the weeks leading up to the February trade deadline. Something happened all right between him and Skiles, but you know what? It doesn't matter.
> ...


Not disputing any of that. How the Bulls have drug him through the dirt in the media is a real class act, too.


----------



## L.O.B (Jun 13, 2002)

Arenas, 

We might never know the exact reason for ERob's place in the dog house but the one thing you never admit to is that what went on behind the scenes could of warranted his place on the bench. If we base it on the court play, you are correct Erobb should get some minutes.


----------



## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>superdave</b>!
> 
> Spats between players and coaches happen all the time. Good players overcome it, so to speak, and show their value as team players. Think Arenas and Musselman. Tinsley and Carlisle. Heck, AI and Brown for grins. The difference is eRob has chosen not to work and flame out to the media. Real class act.


Could someone address this please? I need to be enlightened... especially when it comes to Eddie Robinson. :grinning:


----------



## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>RetroDreams</b>!
> Not disputing any of that. How the Bulls have drug him through the dirt in the media is a real class act, too.


Actually that is not the case. Skiles is making the biggest statement by not giving him minutes. If you can dig up a landslide of quotes to the media per the eRob situation... I'll stand corrected on this issue. So let's not confuse minutes with media vitriol.


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Eddie's an easy target for his attitude. It's a failure of the organization that we invested so much money in him and never were able to find a way to get anything out of him. We signed him. We should have figured out the best way to use him. Not every player responds to the same approach.

And at the very least, whether he practiced hard or not, or even knew the plays, he was good enough to be the starter and increased the teams chances of winning.

There are plenty of guys in the NBA with terrible practice habits. When they start televising practices on ESPN and ABC then maybe I'll start caring about what goes on there. But as it stands, the only thing that counts is what you do during the game.


----------



## fl_flash (Aug 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>arenas809</b>!
> 
> 
> No I don't have an answer for why a guy was playing and producing and suddenly stopped playing for no reason.
> ...


You know what? I'm not going to waste any more of my time on you or these boards. This used to be a place to read some really insightful minds on basketball and the Bulls - a team that I'll root for until I die. Instead I get to see topic after topic hijacked and directed towards your agendas.

A thousand pardons for misspelling the word "peon". I had forgotten that grammar and punctuation were of utmost important here. Would that we all could be as perfect as yourself and apparently ACE. I guess I'll just have to settle for merely being human. It must be tough living in your world. I'll leave you to it.


----------



## Benny the Bull (Jul 25, 2002)

This really isn't about ERob. Paxson and Skiles don't give a stuff about him. It's about the rest of the team, especially the 3 C's and Kirk. They are attempting to establish a standard in terms of training, and the players work ethic, so these guys get the maximum out of their ability. Anyone who doesn't meet that standard won't play. It's simple. 

I don't think it is really hard for ERob to do what the coach asks.


----------



## L.O.B (Jun 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>futuristxen</b>!
> Eddie's an easy target for his attitude. It's a failure of the organization that we invested so much money in him and never were able to find a way to get anything out of him. We signed him. We should have figured out the best way to use him. Not every player responds to the same approach.
> 
> And at the very least, whether he practiced hard or not, or even knew the plays, he was good enough to be the starter and increased the teams chances of winning.
> ...


I can't disagree more with your comments Future.

Practice equates to performance in games. I fail to understand how so many fail to look at practice habits as a reason for the Bulls present condition. 
Maybe I am a dinosaur but I still believe basketball should a team game. Maybe too many posters grew up watching Jordan dominate and don't understand how rare something like that happens. 

A team needs an offensive scheme to win in this league as much as they need good defense. Players need to know the play book.If a player doesn't know his spot on the court, he is going to ruin everything everyone else has been working on. 

If Erob started we wouldn't be winning any more games, sure Erob would get his weak numbers but the team would be none the better.


----------



## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Is it possible that this franchise made certain promises to ERob when he signed with us as a sought after FA?


----------



## giusd (Apr 17, 2003)

flash i don't think you should leave. It is a shame some posters lack of principled conduct but trust me they are the minority around here and most readers want you to stick around.

Be cool david


----------



## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>DaBullz</b>!
> Is it possible that this franchise made certain promises to ERob when he signed with us as a sought after FA?


32 million promises. Give or take a million.


----------



## giusd (Apr 17, 2003)

And hey i can barely spell and that is what microsoft spell checkers is for and my spelling has never interferred with my success don't let them but you down man. 

david


----------



## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>fl_flash</b>!
> 
> 
> You know what? I'm not going to waste any more of my time on you or these boards. This used to be a place to read some really insightful minds on basketball and the Bulls - a team that I'll root for until I die. Instead I get to see topic after topic hijacked and directed towards your agendas.
> ...


hey flash don't leave! you are one of the more sane posters on this board and i for one would miss your perspective. 

don't let someone who is seemingly only concerned with his own agenda ruin it for you. he is kinda like the player who plays for the name on the back of the jersey (ie: his own) rather than the name on the front (ie: the team). 

i mean if certain people really want to fall on their swords over someone like e-rob then let 'em. kind of a waste of a perfectly good sword if you ask me.


----------



## L.O.B (Jun 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>DaBullz</b>!
> Is it possible that this franchise made certain promises to ERob when he signed with us as a sought after FA?


and?


----------



## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

And from ERob's point of view, those promises (like the starting SF job) were not kept.

I'm no fan of ERob, but I am looking at the situation and trying to best understand it.


----------



## Kneepad (Jun 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>fl_flash</b>!
> You know what? I'm not going to waste any more of my time on you or these boards. This used to be a place to read some really insightful minds on basketball and the Bulls - a team that I'll root for until I die. Instead I get to see topic after topic hijacked and directed towards your agendas.


I'm all for people being able to speak their minds, but I have to agree that it's getting tough to read these boards lately when certain posters feel the need to post the same opinions over and over in nearly every thread on the board.


----------



## giusd (Apr 17, 2003)

Kneepad

   

I am with you.

david


----------



## L.O.B (Jun 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>DaBullz</b>!
> And from ERob's point of view, those promises (like the starting SF job) were not kept.
> 
> I'm no fan of ERob, but I am looking at the situation and trying to best understand it.


What did Eddie promise the Bulls? I would love for one poster to come out and defend Eddie Robinson's production versus his talent level. The problem with Eddie Robinson is his freekish ablilities cast a smoke screen on his lack of actually doing anything w/ his abilities. 

Damn I hope Paxson moves ERob in the offseason, I don't think I can handle his fan club anymore. Wow ERob can shoot jumpers from 15 feet and dunk on break aways other than that, I am not impressed. Krause screwed up signing this guy but we we don't read how Erob has failed to earn his playing time, let alone his hefty salary. We read how Skiles and Paxson have a vendetta against ERob. :sigh:


----------



## giusd (Apr 17, 2003)

Kneepad

   

I am with you.

david


----------



## ViciousFlogging (Sep 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>DaBullz</b>!
> And from ERob's point of view, those promises (like the starting SF job) were not kept.
> 
> I'm no fan of ERob, but I am looking at the situation and trying to best understand it.


Interesting theory. Maybe that is what ERob's problem is, and if it is, he should be ridden out of town in a boxcar. geez.

boo hoo. ERob sat for half of his first two years with maybe 2 or 3 legitimate injuries and what seemed like 15 questionable ones. And his first year here, before his toe problem, he was competing with Artest and Mercer for SG/SF minutes.

and being "promised" a starting SF position in the NBA never means "you'll be starting SF even if you do nothing that is asked of you, whine to the media, sit out of games because of a hangnail, and are unable to learn the plays." 

The only time that I felt like ERob was getting a shaft was when Trenton "the stopper who limits his man to 5 points above his season average" Hassell was playing in front of him for stretches last year.


----------



## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>ViciousFlogging</b>!
> The only time that I felt like ERob was getting a shaft was when Trenton "the stopper who limits his man to 5 points above his season average" Hassell was playing in front of him for stretches last year.


As it is now I would play Hassell in front of him before Linton and Dupree.

Ultimately none of us knows what's going on and for all the complaints people may have of ERob, what is being complained about was present when he was playing for 2 months and producing.

It's not like he played, changed, and as a result was not getting the PT.

I kind of agree with Futurixsten, I don't care about practice if you're producing in games.

If ERob was showing up late, not showing up at all, etc. that would be a different story, but it seems to me the guys that are rewarded are the guys that stay after and what not.


----------



## ViciousFlogging (Sep 3, 2003)

Hassell looks good on Minny because they play a fair amount of zone and because Kevin Garnett sometimes seems like he can guard all five guys at once. put Hassell back on the bulls and he'd suck again, IMO.

I'm going resume my hiatus on the ERob talk. It's not like I'm covering any new ground.


----------



## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>L.O.B</b>!
> 
> 
> What did Eddie promise the Bulls? I would love for one poster to come out and defend Eddie Robinson's production versus his talent level. The problem with Eddie Robinson is his freekish ablilities cast a smoke screen on his lack of actually doing anything w/ his abilities.
> ...


This is a little bit simplistic, isn't it?

To be effective, Pax and Skiles need to maximize the TEAM production out of whatever assets that they have.

Did they maximize the production of the TEAM this year in the short-term? No! Did they take steps to maximize the Team production in the long term? Maybe. 

Did the benching of eRob help the production from either eRob or the team in the short term? No Will it help eRob in the long term? The team?

--------------------------------------

New thought -- One thing that confuses me is Skiles appearently benching eRob b/c he doesn't put extra work in. Isn't extra work by the very definetion optional? If everyone needs extra work, shouldn't practices be extended? T


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>L.O.B</b>!
> 
> 
> I can't disagree more with your comments Future.
> ...


Tell that to Allen Iverson, Sam Cassell, Charles Barkley and basically a huge laundry list of players...hell Steve Mcnair stopped practicing for the Titans one year and it went terrific.

Michael Jordan rarely practiced for the Wizards the last half season he was there.

Wilt Chamberlain just showed up to play the games. You think Wilt had time for practice? Wilt was bizzay getting his swerve on.

Practice is overrated by totalititarian ******* coaches...
ERob is obviously not someone who practices well or at all. But everytime I see him get minutes he is our best shooter with Jamal and he is our most athletic swing man, and can at times be a very capable defender.


----------



## ViciousFlogging (Sep 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>futuristxen</b>!
> 
> 
> Tell that to Allen Iverson, Sam Cassell, Charles Barkley and basically a huge laundry list of players...hell Steve Mcnair stopped practicing for the Titans one year and it went terrific.
> ...


ERob isn't good enough to write his own rules. He's also not on a team full of veterans who won't change their attitudes towards preparation by following his poor example. (not saying our guys are doing that, but they're young enough that they might). ERob's also not good enough that the Bulls HAVE to play him. Thus, he's in no position to turn up his nose at the company line and he sits.

OK, now I'm done with this, I swear


----------



## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>futuristxen</b>!
> 
> 
> Tell that to Allen Iverson, Sam Cassell, Charles Barkley and basically a huge laundry list of players...hell Steve Mcnair stopped practicing for the Titans one year and it went terrific.
> ...


Can't compare these guys to Erob. first Erob's not hurt like McNair was that year. He's not a scoring leader like AI or a gym rat like Wilt. MJ gets a pass cuz he's MJ and no one worked harder than him during his Chicago days. Cassell was notorious for missing practices but he has shown up to every one of them on time this season due to KG's competitiveness and desire.

I wish KG was on this club. he'd whip some of these fools into shape. We need someone that'll work extremely hard (of course with skill not those NBDL pickups.)

I'll point to the example of Mickael Pietrus. He called out his players, after a 9-game losing streak, and accused them of not trying their hardest. after breaking the streak, he said "I'm very proud of my teammates. That's the hardest we've played in three or four months," "I love the Warriors." After that, they went on a 8-game winning streak and they started talking about playoffs at that point.

I guess you can call Larry Brown a totalititarian coach. When he was with Philly : "My problems with Allen have been the same for six years," Brown said. "I love him, his competitiveness. The issues are things he has control over, and he'll have a problem with me if he doesn't take care of it. He has to be at practice. He has to set an example. He knows that if he's willing to do that, he'll be a Sixer for life."

Someone needs to make a EddieRobinson.com. I heard he loves technology and with his personality, will care about a stupid thing like that. I'll make an unbiased page of quotes from both Skiles and Erob about the situation and you then decide.


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Yes Larry Brown is an example of the creme of the crop of totalitarian coach.

The other end of the spectrum is Phil Jackson.

I think you have to know your players and how to use them. First of all, even bringing ERob to this situation reeks of someone not doing their homework.

But you are right ERob is on the wrong team for his attitude. He would and will get away with what he's doing on a lot of other teams and he would produce good numbers for those teams.

What I would like to see, is if you played ERob and made him a part of the team instead of excluding him like Skiles is doing, whether that might not translate into him putting more work in.

ERob is one area where Bill Cartwright was much better than Skiles. Of Course Bill had more talent to work with than Skiles. Which isn't Skiles fault...


----------



## Illstate2 (Nov 11, 2003)

I'm kind of torn on the ERob situation. On the one hand, I agree with Skiles and Pax' position of not wanting a guy to have the complacent, and even cowardly attitude brought to the table by a guy called Erob. The guy is content with his lot in life and his skill level and has no desire to get better, and he takes being soft to a new level.

At the same time, I also don't really think the situation is being dealt with in the best way. For one thing, it is going to be impossible to require guys to stay after practice. There's nothing in an NBA contract that says a guy has to do extra work, and from what I've heard and read, that is what is at issue. He's not skipping practice or coming late or anything like that he's just not doing anything extra. He's just doing what he has to do to fulfill his contract.

I think the best way to handle the situation would be to utilize ERob, get his value as high as possible, and then try to move him in the offseason, rather than punishing the entire team by not fielding the best possible team they could.


----------



## FJ_of _Rockaway (May 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Kneepad</b>!
> 
> I'm all for people being able to speak their minds, but I have to agree that it's getting tough to read these boards lately when certain posters feel the need to post the same opinions over and over in nearly every thread on the board.


lack of alternate content worth discussing ?


----------



## FJ_of _Rockaway (May 28, 2002)

Promises .. money .. unearned .. celebrity.. unearned , power struggle .. the mantra of a new regime and its casualties of the doctrine.. both parties hurting the team ...

Yeah .. I'd say that covers it in 25 words or less ( it was 24 actually )

ERob was abandonded as a child and basically raised himself...maybe the read on him was that he was self sufficient and came from the mean streets and got into the NBA through the back door .. so he would appreciate what we had when he got here

Or maybe the flip side to that evaluation would be he felt as though the world owed him something and when he hit paydirt he could flip the bird to the world and not give a crap 

ERob obviously feels the world owes him something and has issues with reciprocation ..ie reward for effort .. which probably gets back to trust / abandonment issues

I want ERob to get excited about his life as a Bull!

Because the rest of his life starts TOOOOOday!

Best wishes

Dr Phil


----------

