# Update Info on SAR for Kidd...



## BLAZER PROPHET (Jan 3, 2003)

I spoke with an aquaintance that works for the Blazers and asked why in the world we'de trade for a player that's not ever be a starter again in the NBA and saddle ourselves with his huge salary. I also asked how certain this deal is.

The answer:

Nash is well aware Kidd will never again be a player that makes a difference and most likely will never start again. However, he is convinced that Telfair is our PG of the future and with Kidd as a mentor/backup feels we'd have the best PG tandum in the NBA. As to the salary issue, the current thinking is that BIG time changes are coming in the CBA. Lastly, as to SAR, pretty much any good deal has been exhausted and what we want out of a potential SAR deal isn't going to materialize, and as we're not going to trade Zebo no matter what his legal problems are and will be (including his "obvious" involvement in the dog fighting issue), SAr is walking at the end of the year and this is the best we're going to do.

LASTLY, he reminded me that while the deal has been agreed upon, it's still not completely inked and there's still a "10%" chance it will fall through.


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## tlong (Jan 6, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BLAZER PROPHET</b>!
> 
> Nash is well aware Kidd will never again be a player that makes a difference and most likely will never start again.


That's ridiculous. It's *WAY* too early to know how Kidd will respond to his surgery.


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## Storyteller (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BLAZER PROPHET</b>!
> 
> LASTLY, he reminded me that while the deal has been agreed upon, it's still not completely inked and there's still a "10%" chance it will fall through.


Wow! It HAS been agreed upon? Is that what you said?

I know that it could still fall through, but putting this "rumor" into that status seems huge to me.


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## BLAZER PROPHET (Jan 3, 2003)

*A Few Things...*

1) My friend with the team is not high up and this is the talk going around the office. However, KFXX states it's a "done deal".

2) The surgery Kidd had is one that no athlete has ever fully recovered from. Ever. And Kidd's having some complications. If he does end up making a full recovery and being an all-star player, it will be somewhat of a minor medical miracle. I listened to a show that focused a lot on this and it's basically a career ending surgery when there's no other option.

3) Nash has always liked Kidd as a person and a player. 

Me? I dislike Kidd as a person and think his salary will be an anchor we don't need. I don't think he'll fully recover from his surgery and his all-star days are gone. This would rank as one of the all-time worst NBA trades in history. Certainly the worst in our franchise history.

IMHO.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BLAZER PROPHET</b>!
> I spoke with an aquaintance that works for the Blazers and asked why in the world we'de trade for a player that's not ever be a starter again in the NBA and saddle ourselves with his huge salary. I also asked how certain this deal is.


how do we know that Jason Kidd will never be a starter again? The odds surely aren't in his favor, but nothing is certain.


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## Mr. Chuck Taylor (Aug 2, 2004)

ummm....did he mention, by any chance, the players involved? Is it SAR straight up for Kidd? Also, am I missing something, or is there some reason why I should believe any of this?


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Even if Kidd only has 3 great years left, there is no telling if Telfair will take his spot in 3 years (which is very possible if not probable). Then the only problem would be having a PG with two more years left making the max on the bench.


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## DrewFix (Feb 9, 2004)

why start a new thread about this? wasn't there already on going discusion regarding this topic?
you have no link, this is hearsay.
for all any one knows this info is made-up. 
the fact that the post made it look like it was from a media source also makes me think it's just kind of "bait" to stimulate discusion. 
just my oppinion but...
hey, what the hellck do i know?


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## ToddMacCulloch11 (May 31, 2003)

IF the deal is Zo and Kidd for Damon and Reef...as a nets fan, I'll take it.

2 past their prime players, both with injury concerns making it not sure how they'll play for the rest of their contracts for 2 expiring contracts (to a rebuilding team) of players that will atleast help us some this season (Reef would be one of our top forwards with Jefferson, and Damon isn't at kidds level, but he's still good...not saying this would make us championship level or anything, but it'd make us a decent team this year)? I wouldn't mind it...this season is a wash anyway for us, might as well plan for the future.


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## BLAZER PROPHET (Jan 3, 2003)

HAP- You could very well be right. According to an NFL player on this subject (heard on the radio), he & approx 20 other NFL players who had this surgery all ended up in retirement and never did recover. Let's just say the odds are against him.

Mr. Chuck Taylor- Nope. We didn't discuss other players. To be honest, I was calling to beg for free tickets and not to discuss in depth the trade.


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## go_robot (Sep 7, 2004)

Didn't Penny Hardaway have this same surgery?


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## ToddMacCulloch11 (May 31, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>go_robot</b>!
> Didn't Penny Hardaway have this same surgery?


I believe so...and I think webber did too (I might be wrong about that).


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## ProudBFan (Apr 29, 2003)

Well, if Reef sits out tonight I'd say it means he's cleared out his locker at the RG.

PBF


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## Blazer Freak (Jul 11, 2004)

I really don't know what to think. I'm just gonna wait for a report/link that it is finalized before I say anything else.

BFreak.


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## go_robot (Sep 7, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>ToddMacCulloch11</b>!
> 
> 
> I believe so...and I think webber did too (I might be wrong about that).


yeah, we're both right according to this article:

http://www.knee1.com/news/mainstory.cfm/263/1

"Kidd isn’t the only NBA player to have had microfracture surgery. The Sacremento Kings’ Chris Webber, the Los Angeles Clippers’ Kerry Kittles, and Allan Houston and Anfernee Hardaway of the New York Knicks have all undergone the procedure, about which Hardaway recently told The Oregonian, “You have to be really careful with this type of surgery. You really have to give the procedure a chance to work and for the knee to heal. If you don’t, you’re asking for trouble.” Hardaway was one of the first NBA players to have the surgery, in May of 2000."

Not the best examples of comeback kids, but Allan Houston seems to be fine. Webber, Kittles and Penny have had problems.


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## ProudBFan (Apr 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>DrewFix</b>!
> the fact that the post made it look like it was from a media source also makes me think it's just kind of "bait" to stimulate discusion.
> just my oppinion but...
> hey, what the hellck do i know?


BLAZER PROPHET's been around here long enough to deserve the benefit of the doubt on this one, DrewFix. I believe what he's saying at this point.

But if it turns out he's full of it... well... let's just say that he's gonna have some 'splainin' to do. :yes:

PBF


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## go_robot (Sep 7, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>ToddMacCulloch11</b>!
> 
> 
> I believe so...and I think webber did too (I might be wrong about that).


yeah, we're both right according to this article:

http://www.knee1.com/news/mainstory.cfm/263/1

"Kidd isn’t the only NBA player to have had microfracture surgery. The Sacremento Kings’ Chris Webber, the Los Angeles Clippers’ Kerry Kittles, and Allan Houston and Anfernee Hardaway of the New York Knicks have all undergone the procedure, about which Hardaway recently told The Oregonian, “You have to be really careful with this type of surgery. You really have to give the procedure a chance to work and for the knee to heal. If you don’t, you’re asking for trouble.” Hardaway was one of the first NBA players to have the surgery, in May of 2000."

Not the best examples of comeback kids, but Allan Houston and Chris Webber seems to be fine. Kittles and Penny have had falloff since their surgeries.


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## tlong (Jan 6, 2003)

*Re: A Few Things...*



> Originally posted by <b>BLAZER PROPHET</b>!
> 2) The surgery Kidd had is one that no athlete has ever fully recovered from. Ever. And Kidd's having some complications. If he does end up making a full recovery and being an all-star player, it will be somewhat of a minor medical miracle. I listened to a show that focused a lot on this and it's basically a career ending surgery when there's no other option.


Kerry Kittles made a full recovery from the same surgery.


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## ToddMacCulloch11 (May 31, 2003)

*Re: Re: A Few Things...*



> Originally posted by <b>tlong</b>!
> 
> 
> Kerry Kittles made a full recovery from the same surgery.


He also had to take a whole season off to do so.


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## Mr. Chuck Taylor (Aug 2, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>ProudBFan</b>!
> 
> 
> BLAZER PROPHET's been around here long enough to deserve the benefit of the doubt on this one, DrewFix. I believe what he's saying at this point.
> ...


I agree, lets give BLAZER PROPHET the benefit of the doubt. But what about his source? I don't know who that is, so how can I give him the benefit of the doubt? And just where did his source get his info from, anyways? It could be that B. PROPHET and his source are reporting what they hear truthfully and accurately, but what they are hearing just isn't true. When you have so many variables I tend to let my common sense make the decision for me, and my common sense is screaming "B.S."

-Mr. Chuck Taylor


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## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

BP I've never taken issue with you in the past with what you've typed, but this time I have to. The fan never said it was a "done deal" What they said is that "a deal COULD happen sooner than later." That's it.........however I also have a friend that works for the Blazers that has told me not to get too upset with SAR as our starting small forward because he dopesn't think he will be here come opening night. that's all he's said though, so maybe there is something to the Kidd rumor this time.


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## ProudBFan (Apr 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Mr. Chuck Taylor</b>!
> 
> I agree, lets give BLAZER PROPHET the benefit of the doubt. But what about his source? I don't know who that is, so how can I give him the benefit of the doubt? And just where did his source get his info from, anyways? It could be that B. PROPHET and his source are reporting what they hear truthfully and accurately, but what they are hearing just isn't true. When you have so many variables I tend to let my common sense make the decision for me, and my common sense is screaming "B.S."
> 
> -Mr. Chuck Taylor


All true, Chuck. Let me rephrase myself:

I believe BLAZER PROPHET believes the information he's been given. Enough so that he's willing to stick his neck out by posting it here.

That, in itself, is enough for me at this point. We'll see what happens.

PBF


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## hoojacks (Aug 12, 2004)

Here's my take:

1. Kidd has 4 years left on his contract. Is he good for 4 more years? Say we do trade Damon or maybe Nick away too. Telfair I think is way less than 4 years away from starting. Would he accept a bench role untill his contract is up? Whatabout Nick or Damon? In 2 years we could have 3 starting PG's on our squad. 

2. In the short term, it's been said that Kidd wont be able to play untill december. If we trade away Damon, can we afford to have Nick and Telfair playing all the PG minutes untill Kidd is healthy? 


If we could dump Damon, and if Kidd was healthy now, I'd pull the trigger right now. It would clear up room for Ruben and Outlaw which is a definite plus. But I'm definitly iffy about this trade, which I don't see happening.


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## Mr. Chuck Taylor (Aug 2, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>ProudBFan</b>!
> 
> 
> All true, Chuck. Let me rephrase myself:
> ...


Seems to me that when people get "insider information" they have a tendency to believe it and ignore the warning signs (I know I do). We'll just have to see I guess.

What do you think about the deal, PBF? I've always respected your opinion (I used to be on espn too). The salary doesn't bother me quite as much as it did originally. Seems like lately sign & trades are much more frequent than straight up free agent signings (kmart is an excellent example) so going way over the cap just isn't that important to me. What is important, however, is Kidd's knee. I just haven't decided if it is worth the risk or not.


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>go_robot</b>!
> 
> 
> yeah, we're both right according to this article:
> ...


I read an article a few weeks back that stated that Kidd was facing better odds of recovering from his surgery then the guys you listed, as his injury was to a non-weight bearing part of the knee. 

STOMP


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## Talkhard (May 13, 2003)

> Nash is well aware Kidd will never again be a player that makes a difference and most likely will never start again.


Your "source" doesn't know squat. NOBODY, including John Nash, knows how Kidd will perform after his surgery. To say that he will never start again is absurd.


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## BLAZER PROPHET (Jan 3, 2003)

*Well...*

Again, my main source is KFXX. After that, it's a very low level Blazer staffer that makes no decisions and while also is not in the "loop", simply listens to the usual office gossip. Me? I can hardly believe it's true.


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## Anima (Jun 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BLAZER PROPHET</b>!
> HAP- You could very well be right. According to an NFL player on this subject (heard on the radio), he & approx 20 other NFL players who had this surgery all ended up in retirement and never did recover. Let's just say the odds are against him.


An NFL player? What about basketball players that have undergone the procedure? No offense, but what a football player says don't mean squat in relation to basketball or basketball players.


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## ProudBFan (Apr 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Mr. Chuck Taylor</b>!
> What do you think about the deal, PBF? I've always respected your opinion (I used to be on espn too). The salary doesn't bother me quite as much as it did originally. Seems like lately sign & trades are much more frequent than straight up free agent signings (kmart is an excellent example) so going way over the cap just isn't that important to me. What is important, however, is Kidd's knee. I just haven't decided if it is worth the risk or not.


I believe I'm in the same boat as you, Chuck. I'm not that concerned about the money because, frankly, it's not my money to worry about. And even if it were, it seems that creative GMs can always find a way to address a need regardless of how far over the cap they are.

The future is impossible to predict. About the best a GM can do nowdays is to sign a player to a contract and know that he's got that player to do with what he will for the duration of that contract. Beyond that, all bets are off. So I think the Blazers gotta make the best moves they can for the here and now, and let the future sort itself out later.

That said, I have my concerns about what Kidd would be able to contribute to the team. In a perfect world, we'd be getting Kidd at 100%, and I'd be giddy with excitement. But he's not 100%, and there's no guarantee he will ever be anywhere close to 100% again (but I guess the Blazers' physicians would have a much better read on it than I). I also have concerns about Kidd's legal past (domestic violence) and the way he used his status to run his coach out of NJ. He's one of the best when he's 100% and things are going swimmingly for his team... but when that isn't the case, it seems he can turn into a bit of a stinker. How do we know we won't see that side of him here in Portland (or that we'll be able to manage it if it does reappear)? These are the concerns I have about Kidd. Well worth it if he's 100% and the team is winning, but serious questions about the ROI (return on investment) if neither is the case.

I'm not concerned about losing Shareef. I personally like his demeanor (when he's happy) and his game more than Zach's right now, but maybe Zach will polish off the rough edges and blossom into an all-around stud? I'm trying to stay away from using the "p" word WRT Zach ("potential") because we really have no way of knowing whether he's maxed his out yet. But I think we've seen the best Shareef has to offer (not so much as a Blazer as when he was with previous teams).

To summarize, I think putting the team in Zach and Kidd's hands is a risk on both fronts. It could pay off handsomely if it works, but I think there are indications that it could also blow up spectacularly in the Blazers' faces. All I ask is that the Blazers pay attention to those indications and do whatever they can to guarantee mitigation before doing the deal.

PBF


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

Ive decided to call bull**** on this trade rumor.


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## furball (Jul 25, 2004)

ditto


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## QRICH (Feb 2, 2004)

I am too.

IF this was a legit rumor, they would have atleast passed it along on the 20/20. They did talk about the Blazers on the 20/20 though, but NOTHING on this deal.


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## ProudBFan (Apr 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hap</b>!
> Ive decided to call bull**** on this trade rumor.


Good enough for me.

PBF


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## Playmaker0017 (Feb 13, 2004)

I wasn't led to believe it was completed, that's for sure.

Play.


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## Kid_kanada (Jun 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>STOMP</b>!
> 
> 
> I read an article a few weeks back that stated that Kidd was facing better odds of recovering from his surgery then the guys you listed, as his injury was to a non-weight bearing part of the knee.
> ...


I read the same type of story when the Raps were talking about Alvin Williams knee, they were saying that his knee is like all the other player mentioned, not like Kidd's knee because Kidd's knee injury was not weight bearing. They seem to think Kidd's recovery would be less complicated then Webber, Williams, etc.


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## ToddMacCulloch11 (May 31, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Playmaker0017</b>!
> I wasn't led to believe it was completed, that's for sure.
> 
> Play.


Oh really? I take a look at the nets message board and I see:



> Originally posted by <b>Playmaker0017</b>!
> As reported on KFXX in Portland.
> 
> The trade is complete and will be announced within a few days.
> ...


(sorry, I coulnd't resist)


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## Playmaker0017 (Feb 13, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>ToddMacCulloch11</b>!
> Oh really? I take a look at the nets message board and I see:


Yes, and if you take a look at one of these threads - you'll see that all I did was copy the direct wording. 



> (sorry, I coulnd't resist)



No problem, but you probably should have.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Epadfield</b>!
> 
> An NFL player? What about basketball players that have undergone the procedure? No offense, but what a football player says don't mean squat in relation to basketball or basketball players.


Actually, I don't think that's true.

The number of professional athletes who have had microfracture surgery is relatively low, and considering the length of availability of the process, this isn't surprising.

To look at, say, 4 NBA players that have had microfracture surgery and try to project whether the fifth case is going to succeed or not is dangerous because of the incredibly limited sample size.

If you loop in the NFL and the players that have had the same (or very similar) process done, it gives a better number of data points to use in projecting.

I don't have time to look up all of the NFL players that have had it, but Andre Wadsworth never recovered from it, and DeShaun Foster recently has. I don't know what the percentage rate is, but it seems to me (not looking at it scientifically, although I follow the NFL pretty closely) the success rate has increase the past couple of years. Maybe that's a self-selection issue (whereas it was only a last resort before, maybe less damaged athletes are partaking in it, which increases its success rate) or maybe the doctors performing it are more skilled or some other aspect of the surgery has been enhanced.

There ARE differences between NBA and NFL demands on athletes, but I don't think we should discount the NFL microfracture experience altogether.

Ed O.


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## CelticPagan (Aug 23, 2004)

Come on, stop spreading your BS about "blazer inside sources". You say John Nash admits Kidd will never again be an nba starter, but he's willing to pay him 20 mil a year for 5 years?? 

And how will an hs rookie and a crippled PG make the best pg tandem in the league? Any idiot can see through this garbage.


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## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

In NBA circles, the rumors continue that the Wolves are still interested in a trade with New Jersey for point guard Jason Kidd if Kidd's knee is 100 percent. -Sid Hartman

http://www.startribune.com/stories/507/5058065.html

login: ihateforced
p : signinpages











So. wheneve a player is mentioned but several teams have rumors about them, it probably means a source just blurted out what teams the player possibly can go to and who they possibly could be traded for. If you couple that withShareef wants out then you got yourself a steaming pile of hot rumanure.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>STOMP</b>!
> 
> 
> I read an article a few weeks back that stated that Kidd was facing better odds of recovering from his surgery then the guys you listed, as his injury was to a non-weight bearing part of the knee.
> ...


http://www.fanball.com/ph/article.cfm/ID.2951



> *As opposed to some of those listed above, though, Kidd's operation occurred on a non-weight-bearing area of his bone. That variation should make a difference in terms of recovery time and long-term effects.* That being said, though, patience is the key to overcoming micro-fracture surgery – just ask the list of players named above.


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## kaydow (Apr 6, 2004)

I find it hard to believe that Nash is willing to bring in Kidd, & pay him $90 million to be a "mentor" to Telfair. That's the most expensive "mentor" in the history of the game. If Kidd is coming here, it's because Blazer Management feels he can come back to at least 80% of what he was. The "mentor" thing is either BS or if Nash did say that, then he's covering his *** in the event Kidd turns into Grant Hill.


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## kaydow (Apr 6, 2004)

> Telfair I think is way less than 4 years away from starting.



Telfair is not 4 years away from Starting. He will be starting 2 years from now, if not sooner (even if we bring Jason Kidd in)


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## QRICH (Feb 2, 2004)

*Mike Rice on Kidd*

I emailed Rice today and here is what he said :

*Kidd would solve alot of problems---he would make the blazers run and 
his name would draw future free agents----now they have to talk him into 
wanting to come to Portland----mike*


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## Trader Ed (Jun 17, 2002)

ok, I do not believe this is legit rumor anymore...

but PBF brings up a valid point, if it was


If Kidd was here, and we know he ran out Byron Scott as coach.... 

what do you think he would do with Cheeks and his stagnant offense?????

I think he would raise a stink pretty darn fast. Maybe not even wait until the summer.


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