# New plans for the clippers off season?



## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

Ok, now that the draft is over, thats one more piece to the puzzle. Now where do the clippers go from here?

Of course it seems that their number one priority is Kobe. Some say Kobe is a lock to stay with the lakers. Others like the LA times today say that its still a possiblity the Clippers have a shot at him. 

If they can get Kobe, i say go for it. Theyd have to give up Richardson, and any other FA possible signings, but bryant, magette, brand, kaman, and livingston locked in for a few years is an incredible nucleus.

However, i still maintain the clips have at best a 10% chance of landing him.

Thus, what direction do the clippers go from here? I just took a look at the long list of Free Agents for this summer, and i really dont see anyone that i would like the clippers to take a run at. That is, other than darius miles. 

Let me get back to that in a little bit....

It would be nice for the clippers to have a superstar. However i dont see orlando accepting their offer of wilcox and magette and another pick for mcgrady since they just picked up howard. Also, shaq doesnt want to go to the clippers, and wouldnt unless they could somehow get mcgrady, and as mentioned, that doesnt seem like that will happen. Nash i would have liked, but not after they picked up livingston. 

Thus, what should the clippers end up doing? I say, take the 15Mil they freeed up for bryant for this year, and split it to locking in richardson and miles into long term contracts. Then, boom, thats it.

Before you knock it, check out this lineup:

Starting 5:
Brand
Kaman
Magette
Richardson
Jaric

Next 5:
Wilcox
Ely
Miles
Simmons
Livingston

Last:
Sofo (if he comes over)
Moore
Barnes
House
2nd round no name PG.

You might ask, how improved is this over last years team? I say a HUGE improvement. Last year, we had lots of injuries. We didnt have enough role players to step up and pick up the slack. Instead we had guys like overton, barnes, etc. playing huge minutes. If we can get this lineup, Darius miles could get 6th man of the year award. He can back up almost any of the positions, and can even start some nights. When jaric needs a rest, instead of scraping the bottom of the barrel with someone like overton or dooling, youre plugging in Livingston, who could end up taking over for jaric as the starter as the season goes on. 

With miles, magette, and richardson, youd have 3 athletic high flying fast breakers that would be perfect to put with livingston. Remember all the fast breaks we had when we had miles and qrich and maget together? Seemed like last year, we had forgotten what the fast break was. That could be back. 

With so many scorers: brand, maget, richardson, miles, defenses would focus on them, opening up opportunities for kaman inside. 

Anyway, i think this is the least complicated plan for the summer the clippers could execute. Only problem would be giving miles a contract that portland couldnt or wouldnt match.


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## Weasel (Oct 18, 2003)

Very Nice Post.

If Shaq is traded then I think Kobe will stay with the Lakers, since he can be the focus point of the team. But, the Clips should still try and go for him. I think for next season the Clippers should try to get a PG for a short time. They could sign Fisher or I have been hearing that Kidd is on the trading block. The Clippers could get a PG and swing Livingston over to G until its his time to shine. As for Miles, him and Richardson in the past were a good combination of atheletism and excitement but the Clippers should be careful, if they are serious, about paying him too much.


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## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

Thats the difference between livingston and jaric though. Livingston cant shoot and isnt strong, so his ONLY position he can play is PG. Jaric though has a decent body and can shoot, so occasionaly he can play SF or even SG. 

With the clippers picking up that 2nd rounder, i really cant see them getting even another PG, unless they move jaric.


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## RD (Jun 10, 2002)

I like the idea of bringing Miles back. I actually brought up that idea on another board.

The big problem standing in the way is that Portland would be able to match any deal for Miles. We dont have a lot of available talent for them. We have Wilcox and Ely, but I dont know if they would take either player and both of them might be too much for Miles.

We'd have to come up with something to make the deal work. But I really like the idea.

In a couple years, we have Livingston, Q, Maggette, Brand, and Kaman starting.

Jaric, Simmons, and Miles playing key roles off the bench. We of course would add another C to backup up, but thats an awesome 8 man rotation as far as Im concerned.


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## sb telfair (May 12, 2004)

hurr be the fo shizzy neezy what the lineup gone be. 

pg-livingston/telfair
sg-richardson
sf-maggette/or darius miles
pf-elton brand
c-chris wilcox


clippers trade jaric, kaman, maybe maggette and a pick: for telfair, miles, and dickau


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## RD (Jun 10, 2002)

Wilcox cannot play center for more than spot minutes here and there. He is not a starting caliber center.

Chris Kaman needs to be kept around, because he is a legitimate NBA center. He's got the size, and the talent. Even if he suffers from inconsistency the rest of his career, he is still a C that can play.


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## Starbury03 (Aug 12, 2003)

Why would they want 2 high school points I like the miles idea but I think he is gona want to start on a team he signs with. If they wanna make the playoffs they need a vetern point to teach Livingston and to play crunch minutes and they need a shooter to spread the D.


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## RD (Jun 10, 2002)

I think the starting deal could be an issue.

But, Miles loved LA while he was here, and he will be re-united with his boy Q. I dont think the title of non starter would make him not come here. He would still get 30 minutes a game backing up the 3 and 4, so all he would be lacking would the name starter.


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## Quasi-Quasar (Jul 18, 2002)

DMiles could be signed easily. Portland doesn't have Bird-rights on Miles, so any offer over the MLE can't be matched. So if the Clipps offered him a 6 year, $38 mil contract (which seems reasonable and in the right range), the Blazers couldn't match. 

I really like the idea of bringing back DMiles, but it means trading Wilcox. Regarding trades for Wilcox, there are a number of different options; Atlanta, Seattle, Utah, Golden State, Miami, Dallas and others could have a healthy interest in Wilcox. Here are two trades that could work:
1. Wilcox to Utah for the rights to Kirk Snyder and their 2005 1st pick.
2. Clippers trade: Chris Wilcox, future 2nd pick
Clippers receive: Clippers' 1st pick from Denver via Orlando (Maggette;Reid trades), future first from Orlando via Denver (Jameer Nelson trade), New Jersey's 2005 1st pick.
Denver trades: 1st picks from Orlando (future and Clippers' 2005/2006)
Denver receives: Kenyon Martin
New Jersey trades: Kenyon Martin, 2005 1st pick
New Jersey receives: Chris Wilcox, future 2nd from L.A.
This trade facilitates a Martin to Denver deal, and the Clipps come away with their own pick, a low first, and a first that could be anywhere. I'd say this is a good way to get value for Wilcox and clear room to sign another FA.

While I really like Kirk Snyder, I think the second trade would benefit the Clipps most in the long-run, as it gives them a future pick, and two picks (including their own) next year. The second trade is basically the Nets trading their first next year for Wilcox and a future 2nd, and the Nugz trading two first picks that they don't even have to sacrafice (although the Orlando pick was the proceeds of their pick this year), for Kenyon Martin who they don't want to overpay just to secure him. 

Working from that second trade on, the Clipps have Brand, Maggette, Kaman, Jaric, Livingston, Ely and House signed, and Q, Simmons, Barnes, and Moore RFAs, with Chalmers contract being non-guaranteed. That's $27.5 mil against the cap. If Q and DMiles were signed to identical 6 year, $38 mil contracts, that puts the payroll at 37.5, still about 6 to 7 mil under the cap. Re-signing Moore is moronic, he's a big guy who has shown zero improvement. Then there's a choice between Simmons and Barnes; only one can stay since Miles would be back and need the backup minutes at SF. While Barnes has more upside, Simmons is a more valuable backup, however it comes down to the salaries. Simmons would be slated to make about a mil, however if he agreed to a contract like 3 or 4 years at $2.4 or $3.4 mil, he's worth keeping around, otherwise Barnes (who would make about 400K) is the right one to keep. 

That gives the Clipps 11 guys (including Chalmers) on roster, with a payroll of less than $38.5 mil. So the Clipps could still sign a decent FA PG/SG for 5 to 6 mil or less. Brent Barry is considering the Clipps, and he might sign for 4 mil. Rafer Alston has finally shown the ability to shoot, so he's an option as well, as is Damon Jones for his shooting ability. And Derek Fisher should be an option too, but the Lakers will likely end up paying him $6 mil (too much) to keep him. Bobby Sura is also an option, but he tends to be an Armen Gilliam (good stats, but makes a team worse). 

As for FAs that could be signed with the remaining capcpace (after signing a vet PG), Jackie Butler, Jame Lloreda, Matt Barnes, Marcus Moore (if he went undrafted...?), Jasik, Amit Tamir, T.J. Cummings, Omar Cook (if he's a FA...?), Lenny Cooke (who still might have a lot of potential), Dan Gadzuric (RFA, Milwaukee), Jason Collier, and Chris Mihm are all guys the Clipps should take a look at.

So the 2004-2005 Clipps roster could, with little effort, look like:
PG: Jaric, Livingston, Chalmers
SG: Richardson, Brent Barry or vet G, House
SF: Maggette, Miles, Simmons
PF: Brand, Sofo (signed to a 6 year 4.5 mil contract)
C: Kaman, Ely 
With the 2 or 3 remaining roster spots (Chalmers' contract is non-guaranteed), Mihm or Gadzuric or Lloreda or Tamir would be a good signing to bolster C/F, and Barnes should be resigned. After that, if Chalmers is cut, then Cook or Cooke or Butler could be signed as a project (like Moore was last year).

All this "plan" really is (at the core), is signing DMiles and Q to reasonable contracts and trading Wilcox. 


OT: BTW re-signing Q will be easier than expected, since Manu Ginobili, Kenyon Martin, Stephen Jackson, Steve Nash and Jamal Crawford seem to be Denver's top 5 list among FAs. I don't exactly understand why they'd pursue Nash or Crawford, but maybe 'Dre is on his way out. But it''s great news for the Clipps that Ginobili and Jackson (and Crawford) are the SG's Denver will more actively pursue...so it's possible the Clipps won't have to overpay to keep Q, unless Denver moves Q back up on their list.


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## Storyteller (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>TheGoods</b>!
> DMiles could be signed easily. Portland doesn't have Bird-rights on Miles, so any offer over the MLE can't be matched.


Incorrect. Portland has full Bird rights on Miles, and seems willing to match any reasonable offer that Miles gets from another team.

It seems as though all of the Clipper moves over the last couple of months have been for one purpose - to clear cap room and make a run after Kobe. I think we'll see than happen in July. Then if they don't get him (Bryant should make up his mind on or near the July 14th end of the moratorium), they'll probably make a run after several medium-level FA's to go with a re-signing of Richardson.

I think that Brent Barry would be a great pickup for the Clippers. He wants 4 years guaranteed, however (which takes Portland out of the running according to Mo Cheeks) - is Baylor willing to pony up?

I tell you, if the Clippers can make some decent FA signings this summer and stockpile some draft picks for next year's supposedly deeper draft, they could really start making some noise in 2005-06, even if they can't convince Bryant to come play for them.


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## RD (Jun 10, 2002)

I like Barry, but talking on another board, it doesnt seem like a smart move. He is too similar to Livingston and Jaric, and we need to give them time to develop. The money could be better used elsewhere.

As for giving Miles a 6 year, 38 mill deal ... Not worth it. I love Miles as much as anyone, but he is not worth that type of money yet. He may get that from someone, but that is overpaying at this point in time IMO.


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## QRICH (Feb 2, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>sb telfair</b>!
> hurr be the fo shizzy neezy what the lineup gone be.
> 
> pg-livingston/telfair
> ...




Can we throw in Randolph, Ratliff , Monya and next years 1st pick while your at it?  Telfair isn't going anywhere.


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## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

Id be willing to pay more for Miles. Is he worth exactly that money on the numbers he puts up? No, not necessarily. But his value to the team is worth more. He puts fans in the stands, sells jerseys, and his style of play is perfect for the clippers. Imagaine a team where most of the players are actually close friends, or went to the same college, or are from the same area. not many teams have that kind of cohesiveness.


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## RD (Jun 10, 2002)

Trust me, I know exactly what Miles brings to the table. Ive gotten into a rather lengthy discussion on another board, citing the exact reasons your are talking about. I agree with what you are saying.

But, thats still overpaying for him giving him that type of money. If we're just talking about the actual numbers he puts up, he's not even worth 2.5mill a year. Its the other assets he brings, and I would go up to 5mill a year, but I wouldnt pay anything more because he is not worth it.


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## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

But dont most contracts increase per year? for example, if it was say a 6 year, 45 million dollar contract, the first year he could get 5 million, next 7.5, next 9, etc...i think that with his improvement, and just inflation in general, that he could be worth that money each progressive year.

However, as i said, if the clippers could get kobe with their 15 million available, i say go for him. But without kobe, i want to see that 15 mill split between Q and miles. If not miles, who else would you pick up with the extra money? I looked that the Free agent list, and didnt see much that i liked. MAYBE mehmet okur, but to me, if the clippers wanted a guy like him, they should have kept drobs


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## RD (Jun 10, 2002)

I want no part of Okur. That guy is a woman.

Yeah, contracts to escalate. But, who says Miles will get better with time(at least significantly better)? He has only gotten marginally better since he left, so its a big risk paying him, expecting him to improve a lot.

What I mean by 5mill is something that averages the 5mill range(if its a little over, say 5 years for 28 mill, thats fine) for the duration. It'll start under 5mill, but will end at about 7. I just dont think Miles is worth any more than that right now, and while I do realize he has potential left, I think its a risky venture to pay him on that potential. Id rather not follow down that path. That could hinder us(depending on how long it is) in keeping Kaman and Livingston.

I would like to bring Miles in though.

If we can't bring in Kobe, I want to sign a couple veterans for short deals, rather than just spend the money just to spend some. 

Take a look at the FA's next offseason:

Shane Battier
Tracy McGrady
Cuttino Mobley
Jason Richardson
Michael Redd
Joe Johnson
Bobby Jackson
Ray Allen
Andrei Kirlenko
Richard Jefferson

Those guys could really help us out.

I would like to use Denver's philosophy. They had a ton of money to spend last offseason, but they werent able to land the big names they wanted. They got one long term guy in Miller, but they didnt overpay on guys just to spend money. They brought in veterans on short deals, like Lenard and Barry, to help their young guys grow, and to help win games in the 4th Q. If we sign guys like Vlade and Lindsey Hunter for a year or so, then will have all our money back for next season, along with improving the standing of our team for the current season. Those guys may not sound like much, but neither were Jon Barry or Voshon Lenard. But, those guys were as big for Denver making the playoffs as the addition of Carmelo Anthony was. If we push for the playoffs, or even possibly make it with those veterans, we become more attractive for free agents next season, and we will have the money to bring in the best of them.


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## Quasi-Quasar (Jul 18, 2002)

RD, I totally agree with you, the Clipps should save up their money for next year. I'd love to take a shot at AK47, but Utah will match anything...and I mean anything. RJ, JRich and Ray Allen are all a cut above Q IMO, and I'd love to have any of the 3; although I think JRich could step up to a new level with a new team (and he's definitely gone, Pietrus and Dunleavy are their future 2/3).

BTW SoCalBlazerFan, fill me in here, how the hell do the Blazers have Bird-rights on DMiles? A player must be on a team 3 full years for the team to retain Bird-rights, and Miles hasn't played even one full year for the Blazers. They can match any offer, as he is a RFA, but I don't see how they could have Bird-rights on him. In any case anything more than 6/38 (that's 5 mil with 10% increases) for DMiles is too much.

I think this year signing Rodney White to a cheap 1 year deal could work. He's a good defender, and a good enough shooter, and he can guard SG/SF/PF so he would give the Clipps flexibility.

So what if the Clipps were to hold on to Wilcox for another year, but trade Q, and sign Rodney White and a vet PG. That would move Jaric to SG and give Livingston about 20 minutes per game to develop with. Unless the Clipps get Kobe, they aren't going to be contenders, and in the stacked WC, the playoffs would be tough to make if the team was nominally improved. Next year should be the year for the Clipps to give Livingston, Jaric, Kaman, and Wilcox time to really develop on the court. 

So what can the Clipps really get for Q? There are several teams that would be interested in him: Denver, Portland, Chicago, Sacramento, Charlotte, and Indiana are some of those interested. Chicago might give up the rights to Deng, a second rounder and a filler; that would be a very nice trade, and would add another Dukie to the team. Portland could give up the rights to Monya, their 2005 1st and someone like Dale Davis; this isn't much considering that their pick could be in the 20's next year, but Monya is a nice prospect. Charlotte could only offer picks. Denver could offer the Clipps pick back with a couple picks (one of their own and the one from Orlando perhaps). 

The Denver trade is definitely most beneficial, if the Clipps decide that next year is not a year to go after the #8 seed. The Clipps keep their pick (late to mid-lotto) and get a condition pick from Orlando and Denver's 2006 1st (most likely in the 20's). Deng is nice, but a few of next year's possible SF's are more appealing to me. Headlining the class, there is Nemanja Aleksandrov, Illyasova, Marvin Williams, Rudy Gay, Martynas Andriuskevicius (if you think he'll play SF like Dirk), Malik Hairston (SG/SF), Damir Omerhodzic, Mizra Telotovic, Tahirou Sani, Antoine Wright (SG/SF), Mike Williams, and a few others. It's going to be the strongest draft for SF's in a long time, unless an age limit is implemented. I would take any of the first 5 over Deng, and I specifically like Williams, Andriuskevicius and Illyasova for where the Clipps might be drafting. Rudy Gay is a good player, but I see a lot of Stephen Jackson in him, and Aleksandrov is the #1 pick (at the moment), but if the Clipps have the #1 pick, he's great.

So if the Clipps want to position themselves for a nice 2005 offseason, they could prepare to get JRich, RJ, or Ray Allen (I also like Joe Johnson, but he's terrible over-rated by Phoenix's management and he'll be overpayed accordingly). If this is the Clipps' direction (which is also the cheapest one), here's a few moves they could/should make:
1. Trade Q to Denver for the pick owed to them, their 1st from Orlando (Nelson trade), and their 2006 1st pick.
2. Sign Rodney White to a 1 year 2 mil deal.
3. Renounce Keyon Dooling.
4. Trade Melvin Ely to Milwaukee for Dan Gadzuric and a conditional first pick (15-10-5-3-1-0 protection starting in 2005). This gets the Clipps a decent backup C, and creates an opening for Sofo if Wilcox is traded next year. 
5. Sign Mark Jackson (the PG) to a one year deal (vet min preferably). Jackson's presence could be highly valuable to Livingston. Livingston needs to learn how to post up (as does Jaric), since he can exploit his height, and Jackson was half of the reason the 5-second back-to-the-basket rule was invented (Barkley was the other half).
6. Sign Sofo to a 6 year 4.4 mil deal. They get a skilled rebounder at least, for a cheap price...and who knows, Sofo could really take off with a good coach.
7. Sign a vet SG, a player like Pike, who can come off the bench and hit a couple of 3's in a couple of minutes and warm the bench the rest of the time.
8. Sign Barnes to a 3 year 2 mil deal with a team option after the first year. And sign Simmons to a one year contract.
So the rotation would look like:
PG: Jaric/Livingston
SG: White/Jaric/Simmons
SF: Maggette/White/Simmons
PF: Brand/Wilcox
C: Kaman/Wilcox.Gadzuric
with a roster of:
PG: Jaric, Livingston, Jackson, Chalmers
SG: White, House
SF: Maggette, Simmons, Barnes
PF: Brand, Wilcox, Sofo
C: Kaman, Gazuric

At the end of next year, House, Simmons, Gadzuric, and Jaric would be FAs with Gadzuric and Jaric being RFAs, and Barnes would have a team option. IMO Jaric and Gadzuric should be resigned at this point and Barnes should be retained, but Jaric and Gadzuric could be signed towards the end of the FA period so the Clipps have free capspace (the Clipps also will have Bird-rights on Jaric). And their cap summary would look like:
Brand: $12.88 mil, Maggette: 6.8 mil, Kaman: $2.8 mil, Wilcox 2.5 mil (to be traded though), Sofo: .6 mil, Barnes: .6 mil, Livingston: 2.8 mil, which adds up to $29 mil. Assume that Wilcox is traded and the Clipps' 1st pick takes up about the same amount of capspace, and before Jaric and Gadzuric are re-signed, the Clipps are looking at $15-18 mil in capspace. This year's cap is expected to be $46 mil, so next year's could be between $44 and 47 mil. And that's enough to sign any player to a max deal. I'd love to spend it on AK47, but unless something drastic happens next year, Utah will match any offer, even if it is 6 years, $86 mil.


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## Storyteller (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>TheGoods</b>!
> BTW SoCalBlazerFan, fill me in here, how the hell do the Blazers have Bird-rights on DMiles? A player must be on a team 3 full years for the team to retain Bird-rights, and Miles hasn't played even one full year for the Blazers. They can match any offer, as he is a RFA, but I don't see how they could have Bird-rights on him. In any case anything more than 6/38 (that's 5 mil with 10% increases) for DMiles is too much.


From Larry ****'s FAQ #17:

"*LARRY BIRD EXCEPTION* -- This is the best known one. Players who qualify for this exception are called "Qualifying Veteran Free Agents" in the CBA. This exception allows teams to exceed the salary cap to re-sign their own free agents, up to the player's maximum salary. The free agent in question must have played for three seasons without being waived or changing teams as a free agent. This means a player can obtain "Bird rights" by playing under three one-year contracts, a single contract of at least three years, or any combination. It also means that when a player is traded, his Bird rights are traded with him, and his new team can use the Bird exception to re-sign him. These contracts can be up to seven years in length. A player can receive 12.5% raises using this exception. This exception is known as the Larry Bird exception because the Celtics were the first team allowed to exceed the cap to keep their own free agent, and the player happened to be Bird."


The key phrase that applies here is that *"when a player is traded, his Bird rights are traded with him, and his new team can use the Bird exception to re-sign him."*


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## DatSupadoopaballer (Aug 26, 2003)

Now that barry is signed should the clips make a move now or wait for the whole kobe and richardson situation to sign otthe free agents


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## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

No.

They wait 1-3 days for Kobes decision. I think he will know by Wednesday what he will do. Then its easy. If he signs, rejoice and start making playoff plans. Then use whatever money they have left over to sign a 3rd string center, and some backups. If he doesnt sign, then match the Q offer, and go after another F/A.


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## Quasi-Quasar (Jul 18, 2002)

If the Clipps don't sign Kobe, matching the offer for Q is a no brainer, for starters. There are a few moves the Clipps could make, using their extra capspace, that would be interesting though. Here's how I'd like to see the offseason unfold if Kobe is not signed:
1. Match the offer to Q. 6 years, 48 mil is a overpaying Q by about 10 mil over 6 years, but that's not a lot compared to some blown-out-of-proportion contracts. Q is certainly worth 10 mil more than Marquis Daniels (who is only one years younger BTW).
2. Trade three future 2nd picks to Cleveland for DaJuan Wagner, Kedrick Brown and DeSagana Diop. Cleveland wants to keep Boozer, he's superior to Kurt Thomas; they can match any offer, and Wagner, Brown and Diop combine to clear 8 mil. For the Clipps, this move may seem odd, but Diop and Brown are off the books next year, and Wagner and Brown wouldn't be kept.
3. Trade Melvin Ely, DaJuan Wagner, Kedrick Brown to Denver for the first pick owed to them and their 1st pick from Orlando. 
4. Sign Rodney White to a 4 year 9 mil deal (with a team opt-oout after the first year).
5. Sign Mamadou N'Daiye to a 1 year .8 mil deal.
6. Sign Simmons for 1 year at .9 mil.
At this point the Clipps roster is:
PG: Jaric, Livingston, Chalmers
SG: Q, House
SF: Maggette, White, Simmons
PF: Brand, Wilcox,
C: Kaman, Diop, N'Daiye
and the salaries adds up to approximately 37.25, leaving around 8 mil capspace. From there, signing a vet center for one year is the biggest need; Vlade Divac works, and although he's not a vet, Gadzuric could work.

The Clipps would have a very nice 8-man rotation of:
Jaric/Livingston
Q/White/Jaric
Maggette/White/Jaric
Brand/Wilcox
Kaman/Wilcoxor vet C/Wilcox or vet C

And next offseason, House, Diop, N'Daiye, Simmons and the vet C would be off the books leaving 35.2 mil in cap (excluding Rodney White and an extension for Jaric).


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## DiRTy DiRK (Jun 4, 2003)

i don't think 4 years, 9 million would do it for Rodney White...he will command the full MLE


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