# Kwame Brown for Caron Butler [Confirmed]



## Miamiballer2k5

*Kwame Brown for Caron Butler in the Works [Confirmed]*

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/36595/20050712/a_kwame_for_caron_deal_brewing/



> Akron Beacon Journal - According to David Aldridge, the Washington Wizards may already have their potential replacement for Larry Hughes in sight.
> 
> Sources involved with the discussions say that the Wizards are talking to the Los Angeles Lakers about a sign-and-trade deal in which forward Kwame Brown, the top pick in the 2001 NBA draft, would go to the Lakers in exchange for swingman Caron Butler.
> 
> The Wizards have other options on the table that could bring them a much-needed big man in return for Brown, but Butler would make a lot of sense.
> 
> Butler has been available during most of his yearlong stay in Los Angeles. If the Lakers move him and, as expected, release forward Brian Grant in order to save money under the luxury tax, they would have precious little to show for their blockbuster trade of Shaquille O'Neal to Miami.


Love the deal for the Wizards!


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## Moto

*Re: Kwame Brown for Caron Butler in the works*

Hi Miamiballer, 

Thanks for the update, can Caron play SG or is he a 3? He was said to have Pierce like skills when he was drafted.


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## RollWithEm

*Re: Kwame Brown for Caron Butler in the works*

Caron's a little slow to guard 2's, but he doesn't guard anyone all that well anyway. He's a little bit like a rich man's Jarvis Hayes.


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## Ramos32

*Re: Kwame Brown for Caron Butler in the works*

i love caron butler and all but i still think that kwame is going to be the man...fans are rough on him and he hasnt played to his full potential...hes gonna be just like blenn wallace, rasheed, webber, and everyone else who left and became superstars....

im sick of doing that, lets just see what we got with him, why not just grab a SG from free agency.....theres not a 7 footer who is that quick, long and fast as kwame...(well garnett but besides him)


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## AutoShackMotorSports

*Re: Kwame Brown for Caron Butler in the works*

Hey Wizard fans, I'm a Laker fan and just wanted to say great season you guys had!!! Too bad about Larry Hughes leaving, I thought that he would stay with the Wiz, but I want to know how many of you guys are opposed to this Kwame for Caron deal? Personally, I think the trade benefits the Wizards more and I would preferably trade Caron to New Orleans, but I just want your opinion about this proposed trade. Good luck this season!!


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## MJG

*Re: Kwame Brown for Caron Butler in the works*

If we really do need to trade Kwame, this is about as good as I can imagine it will get. Last year, in a pretty crowded SF rotation, Butler managed to put up 15/6/3/1.5 on 45% shooting in about 35 MPG. I've read he can play either swing spot just fine, kind of like a Pierce.


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## HallOfFamer

*Re: Kwame Brown for Caron Butler in the works*



MJG said:


> If we really do need to trade Kwame, this is about as good as I can imagine it will get. Last year, in a pretty crowded SF rotation, Butler managed to put up 15/6/3/1.5 on 45% shooting in about 35 MPG. I've read he can play either swing spot just fine, kind of like a Pierce.


Have you guys seen any thing from Kwame to make you oppose this trade? Do you think a change of scenery for him will do good for his career? I heard he really didn't get the ball much for the Wizards, do you think playing the triangle will bring out the best in him?


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## afireinside

*Re: Kwame Brown for Caron Butler in the works*

If Kwame goes to the Lakers I believe he will really blemish into a great player. Kobe knows how to feed the post (he did play with Shaq). Phil's triangle offense is focused around down low just as much as the guard spot is. This makes it easier for Kwame to get post-up positions.

To answer your question, Kwame is a ultra-fast power forward who can get past any low post defender with the greatest of ease. When he faces up with the basket he's deadly. He has a variety of moves around the post, but he didn't get to use them much in Washington. If you watched the Wizards-Bulls game on ESPN near the end of the season you might of seen a sample of that. He abused the small Bulls front court with his strength and speed. On one play he just took the ball from at the foul line all the way to the basket and slammed it hard. Kwame can also make a shot if he squares up with the basket. This makes the defender play honest, which makes Kwame only that much of a threat. Kwame's man-to-man defense is only par and his help defense is nil. But he can block shots when he's in the right position. His stealing is also above par for a low post defender. His rebounding is sparratic, considering he doesn't try too much when going for rebounds. He once had a 30-19 game against Sacramento two years ago. When he tries, it shows why he was chosen #1 in the 2001 Draft.

His time was terrible in Washington. He had a tough start with all the expectations being thrown on top of him since he was chosen #1. And with Michael Jordan yelling at him instead of teaching him really made Kwame not want to get better. He had no motivation to try because he was always getting yelled at when he actually got to play. When Jordan left, things started to look up for Kwame. He had a decent third year. He was consistant but not at a high rate. His fourth year was a disaster. He got injured for most of it and when he played he was booed at. He had a bad relationship with the coach, Eddie Jordan, which led to the booes I think. Then when he stopped showing for practice he got suspended for playoffs, which extremely lowered his chances of staying in Washington.

If we are going to trade Kwame, I just hope we get a player who's already ready to contribute or had potential equal or greater than Kwame's.


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## thekid

*Re: Kwame Brown for Caron Butler in the works*

Caron's value should be high and Kwame's low but for the Lakers, Kwame fills the lineup well and if he can develop and work alongside Kobe, he'd make a great fit.


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## FanOfAll8472

*Re: Kwame Brown for Caron Butler in the works*



RollWithEm said:


> Caron's a little slow to guard 2's, but he doesn't guard anyone all that well anyway. He's a little bit like a rich man's Jarvis Hayes.


 Butler is a good defender and mostly a slasher. Decent outside shot, not the best. Much better as a slasher. He doesn't have problems against most 2 guards.


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## thaKEAF

*Re: Kwame Brown for Caron Butler in the works*

If I were the Wizards I'd pull the trigger on this as quickly as possible, because you probably won't get much more than this for Kwame Brown. Caron Butler has the potential to be a really solid player in this league, and he showed that at the end of last season when Kobe stopped playing.


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## Dwyane Wade

*Re: Kwame Brown for Caron Butler in the works*



RollWithEm said:


> Caron's a little slow to guard 2's, but he doesn't guard anyone all that well anyway. He's a little bit like a rich man's Jarvis Hayes.


??..Butler is a great defender, really agressive, great great rebounder, he does a lot of dirty work, hes termendous, honestly i think he will one day be on the Heat again, but hes a termendous player, and i would take him any day..i dont know how you say he doesnt guard anyone all that well anyway, im a huge Heat fan, watched him play a lot! Great defender! And he's in a way a streak shooter, if he's hot hes hot, and if he's not he'll still make some, but not as consistintly.


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## Darth Bryant

*Re: Kwame Brown for Caron Butler in the works*

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-brown14jul14,0,4465538.story?coll=la-home-sports

Times says the deal is done at least in principal.

As much as you guys hate giving up Brown, Id rather not have to give up Butler for him. He has been impressive this year and I think he will be an allstar. You guys may hate it now, But I think you got the better end of the deal...

Only reason lakers give him up is because he doesnt fill a need. We need size.


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## Damian Necronamous

*Re: Kwame Brown for Caron Butler in the works*

Caron's a great replacement for Larry Hughes. You're going to love him. 

His flaws: lateral quickness, passing, three-point shooting
His strengths: scoring, slashing, running the break, ball-handling, steals

We saw some flashes of good defense in Caron. He definitely has the potential to be a quality defender. However, right now, he's average at best. He may have some trouble guarding the quick SGs. He really has a drive to be the best he can be, though. It sucks that we didn't have a spot for him in the lineup. He has the talent to be an All-Star pretty soon. He was averaging 22ppg for us the last 15 games and was just torching opposing teams.

Now you still have the MLE to go out and get your PF.


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## MJG

*Re: Kwame Brown for Caron Butler in the works*

Not to totally ignore the main part of the deal, but I really like that we likely got Atkins as the throw in. We haven't had a decent backup for Arenas since he got here, and now we do. I feel world more comfortable with him getting 14-18 minutes a night than I would with a guy like Blake.


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## HKF

*Re: Kwame Brown for Caron Butler in the works*

PG - Gilbert Arenas, Chucky Atkins
SG - Jarvis Hayes, Anthony Peeler
SF - Caron Butler, Jared Jeffries
PF - Antwan Jamison/Michael Ruffin
C - Brendan Haywood/Etan Thomas

Still looks like a playoff team.


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## MJG

*Re: Kwame Brown for Caron Butler in the works*

I think so too, especially if there is any improvement at all by Hayes or JJ. That's without us having spent any MLE money either, which I think we're likely to do.


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## RP McMurphy

*Re: Kwame Brown for Caron Butler in the Works [Confirmed]*

This is a miracle for Wizards fans. They should've gotten nothing for a bum like Kwame Brown, but instead they're getting a guy who will be a quality starter for them for the next five years. This team will still make the playoffs next year.

For some perspective, here's what happens to your team when your GM makes a trade with Mitch Kupchak.

Miami: 42 wins in 2003-04, 59 wins in 2004-05
Boston: 36 wins in 2003-04, 45 wins in 2004-05

I like the Wizards' chances next year.


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## MiamiHeat03

*Re: Kwame Brown for Caron Butler in the Works [Confirmed]*

Wizards i think have gotten another 20ppg scorer in butler and a quality defender.

he is a tweener but his suitable position is SF not SG.

Arenas
Jarvis
Caron
Jamison
Haywood


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## Dwyane Wade

*Re: Kwame Brown for Caron Butler in the Works [Confirmed]*

Congrads you guys should enjoy him, you all i remember wanted him in the draft but we got him right before you, so you guys selected another SF Jarvis Hayes, well anyway, i hope y'all enjoy him, hes a good person, and a fantastic player, i honestly see this move putting you in the playoffs again, i wasnt sure once you lost Larry Hughes, but now you guys will go again..In a way i think this is better then having Hughes, hughes at times would be a ball hog, Butler wont do that, and butler is also a good defender, GREAT rebounder! good trade for the wiz.


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## MikeDC

*Re: Kwame Brown for Caron Butler in the Works [Confirmed]*

Butler will be just fine at SG, just as he was in stints there for the Heat and Lakers.

Whatever his "position", he's the guy that guards the other guy's best wing player, something that Antawn Jamison's not goint to do. And Butler's a pretty good defender.

I worry a bit about the rumors of long-term knee problems, but Butler will certainly help the Wizards on the court- he's a better man defender, more physical and smarter player than Hughes was in the first place. They lose some scoring and ball handling capability, but I think the toughness factor might leave them better in the long run.

Atkins is servicable as a backup PG

And they're getting it for Brown, who gave them absolutely nothing.


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## Diophantos

*Re: Kwame Brown for Caron Butler in the Works [Confirmed]*

As an outside observer (heat fan) I think you guys got an excellent deal.

Caron's numbers for the month of April (9 games):
22.8 ppg
7.6 rpg
2.9 apg
2.2 spg
46% shooting


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## Shanghai Kid

*Re: Kwame Brown for Caron Butler in the Works [Confirmed]*

I like the deal. I have to agree wit RP here, the way things were going, Kwame was a goner no matter what, so at least we're getting a starting calibur young player for him. 

My biggest worry was that he was going to sign a big deal with the Hawks and just be let go. 

Question, are we getting Atkins or George? Both would be serviceable backups, Atkins in partcular would allow Arenas to still play minutes at the 2.

And the Wizards aren't done, their going to sign Donyell Marshall and play him at the 4 with Butler and Jamison at the 2/3. In my opinion that will give them a better team than last season.

From what I've seen, Butler is a smarter player than Hughes, he won't just jack up shots out of the offense. I think our efficiency and ball movement will be much superior next season.


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## Damian Necronamous

*Re: Kwame Brown for Caron Butler in the Works [Confirmed]*

Caron was just another swing man while he was on the Lakers, now that we've dealt him, he's a 20ppg scorer and a future All-Star?

That's what we were saying all along! :curse:


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## Bron_Melo_ROY

*Re: Kwame Brown for Caron Butler in the Works [Confirmed]*

I like the trade and as previously mentioned, we still have all the the MLE. We are still in good shape to go to the postseason.


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## LightsOutShooter

*Re: Kwame Brown for Caron Butler in the Works [Confirmed]*

I think Caron will spend more time at SG than SF, so Jamison can play his more natural position and not PF. I don't think Grunfield is done re-tooling this team by far, he'll add a PF very soon.

On Sportstalk 980, they mentioned we may not be getting Atkins but Devean George instead. Did anyone else here this?


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## HKF

*Re: Kwame Brown for Caron Butler in the Works [Confirmed]*



Damian Necronamous said:


> Caron was just another swing man while he was on the Lakers, now that we've dealt him, he's a 20ppg scorer and a future All-Star?
> 
> That's what we were saying all along! :curse:


Caron Butler will not be making the all-star game.


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## Drewbs

*Re: Kwame Brown for Caron Butler in the Works [Confirmed]*

Butler isn't really that good. Hes a good 3rd or maybe an average 2nd option type of player, but thats it. Still, hes a good player to have on your team, hes a good teammate, he hustles and plays hard, the coaches like him and the fans always do as well. I hate to see him go.


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## Ownerofpueblo

*Re: Kwame Brown for Caron Butler in the Works [Confirmed]*

Caron was probably the best thing you could have gotten. Like with Curry, you should have traded him earlier, fooled people for a little more then you got. This same trade last year might have netted the first rounder.

I don't think Caron is an allstar, but it's a pretty sweet trade for the Wizards. 

And the Warriors.


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## afireinside

*Re: Kwame Brown for Caron Butler in the Works [Confirmed]*

I couldn't see us getting much more than a solid starter and decent back-up PG for Kwame. I think we got we most out of him.

I'm glad we got Caron, but I'm sad that we are giving up Kwame. I really believed in his potential. I guess we'll have to watch Kwame break out in another setting.


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## MJG

*Re: Kwame Brown for Caron Butler in the Works [Confirmed]*

On the throw in issue, from reading around, I gather that the choice of George or Atkins is ours to make. Assuming that's right, I sure as heck hope we take Atkins. Right now we have absolutley nobody to play backup PG, and a good four or so guys who can man the SF spot. If we sign Marshall, there's another one. George would have to battle for minutes that we really don't need to give him, Atkins would have minutes waiting for him that we need filled by somebody. If the choice really is up to us, it's a no brainer from my point of view.


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## BCH

*Re: Kwame Brown for Caron Butler in the Works [Confirmed]*

The Wizards get rid of a guy that had no future in Washington, and got back a solid player in Butler. 

I think Butlers spectacular numbers as a rookie, and when Kobe was out came mostly because he had the ball in his hands a lot. When he is the first option, it is possible you will see those numbers. In Washington however, he will not be the first or second option. However, I think it is possible with the style the Wizards play to coax similar numbers out of Butler because of the way they run, and the way they ignore the post. The good and the bad.

I still think Reef would work as a Wizard, but am not acknowledging he might not come to DC, so my next option is the Stro Show. He can be a serviceable garbage man around the basket on offense, and on the break. His blocked shots on the defensive end could start breaks, and I think he can be a serviceable rebounder. Donyell Marshall is not the answer boys and girls. Please say no to old Yell'er.


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## MikeDC

*Re: Kwame Brown for Caron Butler in the Works [Confirmed]*

I have a hard time seeing us get ahold of Stro given his restricted status and our lack of anything but the MLE to throw at him.

Really there's not much else out there besides Marshall after that. SAR, Stro, and Antoine Walker seem to pretty much be it. :|

We probably need another decent player for depth purposes, so it looks like Marshall's it to me. 

Is he the best guy out there? No. But he's better than relying on Ruffin and JJ to play big minutes.


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## afireinside

*Re: Kwame Brown for Caron Butler in the Works [Confirmed]*

Please Ernie, pick Atkins! If you pick George then I hope you plan on getting a worthy back-up PG, which probably won't happen.


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## BCH

*Re: Kwame Brown for Caron Butler in the Works [Confirmed]*



Mikedc said:


> I have a hard time seeing us get ahold of Stro given his restricted status and our lack of anything but the MLE to throw at him.
> 
> Really there's not much else out there besides Marshall after that. SAR, Stro, and Antoine Walker seem to pretty much be it. :|
> 
> We probably need another decent player for depth purposes, so it looks like Marshall's it to me.
> 
> Is he the best guy out there? No. But he's better than relying on Ruffin and JJ to play big minutes.


Stro is an unrestricted Free Agent. He played under the 1 year tender offer last year. You are right that I don't see him playing with us for the MLE, as he would probably rather go to Houston or NJ.

I hope NJ goes after Stro, leaving Shareef to us. Marshall is going to be a debacle of Kevin Duckworth proportions.


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## MJG

*Re: Kwame Brown for Caron Butler in the Works [Confirmed]*

There's an off chance that I'm reading a bit too much into things, but maybe, perhaps, possibly ... BCH doesn't want Marshall on the team? I'm really reading between the lines here, so sorry if I'm way off 

I don't find Swift likely at all, as everything I've read indicates he isn't all that interested in signing an MLE contract. It's probably worth offering him the MLE just for the heck of it, but I think it'd be a mistake to make him any kind of priority over anyone else at this point.

With the reports that the Rahim-Nets connection is getting a wee bit rockier (with Portland/NJ not agreeing on what to trade back and forth), it might not be so out there to throw our name more strongly into the hat. Like with Swift, no reason not to toss an MLE offer his way if we haven't already. However, I don't like Rahim enough such that I'd have an interest in giving away pieces of our team in a sign and trade; in other words, if he wants more than the MLE, I don't think it's worth it.

So my basic opinion on the top two UFA PFs remaining is "Offer them the five year $30 million MLE deal, see if they accept." My guess is neither looks into the deal that seriously. After that, then what? You could look at Antoine Walker, though the fact that he doesn't appear to be interested in resigning with Boston for an MLE level offer makes me think he isn't going to come here for that much (if we even wanted him here). After that you start drudging in the lower depths of the barrel, with the likes of Darius Songalia and Reggie Evans and so on. Those types could probably be had for cheaper, but are they even that much better than what we could find in-house?

Barring a trade from out of nowhere, I see two realistic options for our starting PF spot next year -- Donyell Marshall and Antawn Jamison. Marshall is interested in the team and will take an MLE offer. He's the only decent PF out there that I can comfortably make those two statements about. If we don't or can't pick him up, I think the team saves its cash and simply does another year with Jamison at PF, with Caron and Hayes being interchangeable starters at SF and SG.

Keep in mind, this is a very realistic, down to Earth viewpoint that I tend to keep. Not a hint of optimism or high hope at all. I also stated two summers ago that the should just make an offer to Jason Terry, because there was no way Arenas was going to come here. Sometimes it doesn't hurt to think upwards :shy:


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## BCH

*Re: Kwame Brown for Caron Butler in the Works [Confirmed]*

I am not sure if I was clear enough. Marshall is not the answer as a PF. Plain and simple. I would rather have Jared Jeffries play PF, than have Marshall go in and jack up 3 pointers.

The Wizards would be better not spending the MLE rather than waste it. Anything more than 3 years at the MLE for Marshall is a Laettner-ish albatross around the nexk of this franchise.


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## GNG

*Re: Kwame Brown for Caron Butler in the Works [Confirmed]*



BCH said:


> I am not sure if I was clear enough. Marshall is not the answer as a PF. Plain and simple. I would rather have Jared Jeffries play PF, than have Marshall go in and jack up 3 pointers.
> 
> The Wizards would be better not spending the MLE rather than waste it. Anything more than 3 years at the MLE for Marshall is a Laettner-ish albatross around the nexk of this franchise.


Stromile for Etan Thomas. Straight up.

I'd do it, and I'd hope Jerry West would, too.

BTW, wasn't someone telling me last year around this time how much better and more valuable Kwame Brown was than Pau Gasol? LOL at that guy.


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## Shanghai Kid

*Re: Kwame Brown for Caron Butler in the Works [Confirmed]*

I actually like Marshall on the Wiz. He's a solid rebounder, and one of the best shooting big man in the league. I really think we need a big who can shoot, and 3-point shooting was a weakness for us. He's also not that bad of a defender. I wouldn't sign him for more than 3 years though. I think he can definetly teach Jared Jeffries a thing or two.


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## MJG

*Re: Kwame Brown for Caron Butler in the Works [Confirmed]*



Rawse said:


> Stromile for Etan Thomas. Straight up.
> 
> I'd do it, and I'd hope Jerry West would, too.
> 
> BTW, wasn't someone telling me last year around this time how much better and more valuable Kwame Brown was than Pau Gasol? LOL at that guy.


 That's so simple I never would have thought of it. Etan's cost allows Swift's deal to start as high as about $6.5 million, giving it a total max value of around $50 million or $8.4 million a year. I don't know any exact figures that he is looking for in his new contract, but I would hope that would be enough to appease him.

For those who want Swift, this is pretty much to what you'd have to expect to do to get him.


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## afireinside

*Re: Kwame Brown for Caron Butler in the Works [Confirmed]*

I'd do it. Etan is a blackhole on offense.


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## One on One

*Re: Kwame Brown for Caron Butler in the Works [Confirmed]*

Well, I agree this is a pretty nice trade. Kwame will probably flourish in LA and I hope he does, but he probably wouldn't have much success if he stayed here. Caron is a pretty good player and I think he can play the 2 or 3. I really hope JJ doesn't continue to start (who knows?)

I don't know why you guys are so glad we got Atkins. He's okay, decent three-point shooter, but horrible defender. He's an upgrade over Blake, that's for sure, but George is the better overall player. It's true we really needed a backup PG though so I'm not upset at that.

I think this is a good deal for both teams. Both players are moving into better situations. Jamison is going to have to hang around the block a little more this year and Butler is going to have to make himself a defensive stopper. I don't know about his defensive ability...seems like some people think he can be a great defender, others think he isn't. We'll need him to fill that role. 

I think this is a good trade, but we have a lot of question marks for this season. Can Hayes consistently hit the jumper and play like a reliable starter? Can Butler be our shutdown defender or at least a good stopper? Can Arenas adjust to the new lineup and get everyone involved? Can Jamison post up enough to give us spacing on offense?


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## Junior21

*Caron deal*

Just wanted to say as a HEAT fan you guys made out like bandits. I think Kwame still has an upside, but Caron is a very underated player that can fill the stat line. When Kobe got hurt towards the end of the year, caron was doing very well. He has big game potential & can put up serious numbers if fed the ball. Caron is a physical SF that can hit the 3 & a solid jumper. He will let the Hughes loss be forgotten by mid season.


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## adarsh1

*Re: Kwame Brown for Caron Butler in the Works [Confirmed]*

First of all let me cry...Bye Kwame.

Next, if Butler comes over, where does he play...sf or sg?
I hope he plays sg because I can't stand another game of Jamison at PF. It looks like Reef and Stro are the next options at pf-Is there any chance we get one of them?

and suppose we get reef...

with a starting lineup of 

Haywood/Reef/Jamison/Butler/Arenas

do you think we can beat the heat?


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## BCH

*Re: Kwame Brown for Caron Butler in the Works [Confirmed]*



Shanghai Kid said:


> I actually like Marshall on the Wiz. He's a solid rebounder, and one of the best shooting big man in the league. I really think we need a big who can shoot, and 3-point shooting was a weakness for us. He's also not that bad of a defender. I wouldn't sign him for more than 3 years though. I think he can definetly teach Jared Jeffries a thing or two.


Why do people keep wanting to call Marshall a big man?

He was a SF when he came into the league, and a couple of teams have tried to put him at PF, but they invariably trade him. He is not that athletic, and he can't defend. We had no problems scoring points. There is nothing really wrong with our offense, and if we have a PF jacking 3's with the perimeter players we already have, that means there are already too many people on the perimeter. I would rather get someone who can play inside, which Marshall CAN NOT DO! There is a reason he jacks 3's.

Say no to Mashall.


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## clien

*Re: Caron deal*

:clap:  i personally like the deal for both teams


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## MJG

*Re: Kwame Brown for Caron Butler in the Works [Confirmed]*



One on One said:


> I don't know why you guys are so glad we got Atkins. He's okay, decent three-point shooter, but horrible defender. He's an upgrade over Blake, that's for sure, but George is the better overall player. It's true we really needed a backup PG though so I'm not upset at that.


Simply put, we have a boatload of people who can play SF, and nobody except Arenas who are a PG. George would compete against Jamison, JJ, Hayes, Butler, and possibly even Marshall to get time at SF. Atkins will compete against ... nobody to get time as our backup PG. He may not be especially great, but I'd rather have an okay we-badly-need-someone-at-your-position backup at one spot than a okay has-to-compete-with-many-others backup at another spot.


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## Doggpound

*Re: Kwame Brown for Caron Butler in the Works [Confirmed]*

I think 64 year old Darrell Armstrong would be a better backup PG than Atkins.


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## Junior21

*Re: Kwame Brown for Caron Butler in the Works [Confirmed]*



adarsh1 said:


> First of all let me cry...Bye Kwame.
> 
> Next, if Butler comes over, where does he play...sf or sg?
> I hope he plays sg because I can't stand another game of Jamison at PF. It looks like Reef and Stro are the next options at pf-Is there any chance we get one of them?
> 
> and suppose we get reef...
> 
> with a starting lineup of
> 
> Haywood/Reef/Jamison/Butler/Arenas
> 
> do you think we can beat the heat?



No! You forget there's only 1 basketball & you guys need more passing to be better than Miami.


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## byrondarnell66

*Re: Kwame Brown for Caron Butler in the Works [Confirmed]*



Junior21 said:


> No! You forget there's only 1 basketball & you guys need more passing to be better than Miami.


Well we did lose Larry Hughes so I would imagine there would be a little more ball movement next year as long as Arenas doesn't decide to go nuts. I think we can be a pretty solid team (certianly not Miami's Level) but can make a push for the playoffs again but we need to get a decent PF. Jamison cannot hold up a whole season playing big minutes at PF. Butlers is just gonna have to start at SG.

Lineup

Arenas PG - Atkins???
Butler SG - Jarvis Hayes
Jamison SF - Jeffries, Butler
FA-PF??? - Ruffin, Jamison
Haywood C - Etan

Hayes is not a starter nor as Jeffries.


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## Future

*Re: Kwame Brown for Caron Butler in the Works [Confirmed]*

What does this mean for Dixon? He gone?


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## byrondarnell66

He's an unsigned FA so far.


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## Ghiman

Laker fan here, just wanted to say that I personally will miss Caron Butler in a Laker uniform. What you got in Caron is a established player that will do well and wish him the best of luck for your orginization. As for Kwame, he has alot to prove, but i hope a new team and new atmosphere is the answer to his basketball grief he had in Washington. 

Good luck next season!


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## Drk Element

meh, now we get laron profit, im still sad. guys promise youll take good care of caron?


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## DaBullz

I sorta agree and sorta disagree with BCH about Marshall.

He definately has an inside game. He definately shot more 3s than 2s last season. THe season before, with the Bulls and Raptors, he shot about 1/3 of his shots as 3s, and shot .461. A lot of his baskets had to come from the inside to shoot that well. But hey, he did shoot > 40% from 3pt range, so it's not like he's jacking up bad shots. He boards extremely well. Enough to get him a bunch of double-doubles every year.

That said, he's like 32 years old, he's had trouble playing a whole season when he was younger, he's not a very good defender, and he is a tweener for sure. He's too slow to guard SFs well, and too light to play PFs well.

He'd be ideally suited as a role player, but his play the past two seasons merit him starter's minutes. I don't know he has a whole lot left in the tank. 

I think BCH is right that you don't want to commit more than 1 or 2 years to the guy, and you can probably find a younger guy to work with. I also wonder why the bigs you have now aren't plenty good enough, considering the great talent you have everywhere else. What you need is tough defense and rebounding and guys who know what to do with the ball when they get it close to the bucket.


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## Tyrellaphonte

*Re: Kwame Brown for Caron Butler in the works*

I like the trade for both teams.... unless Kwame stays how he is. Then you raped us.


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## JonMatrix

Ahh a team of tweeners....

Arenas - 1/2
Atkins?- 1/2
Hayes- 2/3
Butler?- 2/3
Jamison- 3/4
SAR?- 3/4

Another phrase would be "a team with great versatility" lol
The press will choose their phrase depending on the team's success.

Another thing to point out- Management is basically giving Arenas the green light as far as being "the man" goes...him and Kwame fueded briefly two years ago and Hughes could be a ball hog at times.....I have been an Arenas fan since his Arizona days so I don't personally have much of a problem with it at all.


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## f22egl

Only thing is that Arenas was making excuses for Kwame Brown before he was suspended and he expressed that he wanted the suspension to be lifted. The Kwame Brown fued simply seems to boil down with Eddie Jordan. I wish the best for Kwame but there wasn't really a guarantee that he was going to become consistent so I understand the trade in some way. Still, there is no guarantee that this will not backfire against the Wizards


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## erniejohnson

I'm convinced that Miami Heat fans have no idea who Caron Butler is. His defense is not good. With that said, I'm one of the biggest Butler fans out there. He can flat out put the ball in the basket. He doesn't shoot the 3 all that well but his midrange game is much improved. He attacks the rim like a madman and is a very good foul shooter. He'll give it everything he's got when he's on the court so I don't know why he doesn't play better defense, he's not a slacker. You got a very good basketball player and a better human being and teammate. Take care of Caron guys.


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## het now

*Re: Kwame Brown for Caron Butler in the works*

The trade is fairly even and I like how it turned out for the Wiz.


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