# So, Now We Have "Blazergate"??



## ABM (Dec 30, 2002)

Read On...



> Canzano: Covering for players sends wrong message
> 
> D isappointment reached a new low Tuesday at One Center Court. A private document was obtained by The Oregonian, leaving a basketball franchise naked, and maybe, too, tearing down all that remained of the Trail Blazers' 25-point pledge.
> 
> ...


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## Trader Ed (Jun 17, 2002)

Why woud Miles file a grievence?

He is the one that instigated it against the coach

weird :banghead:



Does a player file a grievence everytime they get suspended for something automatically?



> _There are three league grievances open against the Blazers -- by Dale Davis, Vladimir Stepania and Qyntel Woods. Maybe the franchise was trying to avoid a fourth._


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## Swoosh (May 2, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Trader Bob</b>!
> Why woud Miles file a grievence?
> 
> He is the one that instigated it against the coach
> ...


Seems like they always file grievances, whether they're the instigator/guilty party, or not. Seems the players are never accountable for anything. Sure would be nice if it were like that for the rest of us "normal" people.


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## Trader Ed (Jun 17, 2002)

The article is highly critical...... and feels like a witch hunt more than a report on a negotiation in progess.

But I do feel like it seems wrong for them to settle on a suspension in which the player had an outburst against the coach.

Miles apology was pretty loose to begin with. Now with him filing a grievence, and getting money back is a low blow. He is doing this at the wrong time. He should have waited until after the trading deadline.

I bet he is not Mr. Allen's favorite player anymore...


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## RedHot&Rolling (Jun 26, 2004)

It's sad, really sad - this players association has gone off the deep end in its protection measures for the Players.

The ONLY reasonable explanation is that the Blazers HAD to settle somewhat from their pledge -due to language in the contract. 

I'm sad today for my beloved Blazers.

And, PS Miles never apologized. One can only show regret and ask forgiveness from the one the act was against. His apology to the fans - was off the mark. The apology HAD to be toward Cheeks and it wasn't.

Kudos to Canzano - that was a "journalistic" smoking gun!!

Can you imagine the look on Patterson's face????


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## B_&_B (Feb 19, 2004)

It mentions that D.Davis filed a grievance against the Trail Blazers, anyone know what for?


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## Trader Ed (Jun 17, 2002)

I think it was for the time Dale missed the game or practice when he was snowed in last year...


He either got fined or had a game suspension did he not?


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## yakbladder (Sep 13, 2003)

Every players' association does similar things. Their player goes out and kills a ref on the court, suspended for one game, and the association is right there appealing the suspension and threatening to sue.

This is why collective bargaining agreements take so long to hammer out -- because the players' association wields LOTS of power. Anybody remember how they got Spree off the hook (well, not all the way, but partially) after choking PJ? Or how they helped with Artest? They also don't like players being tested for drugs or being banned for drugs. 

But then again, I'm sure the owners are just as pretty.


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## Trader Ed (Jun 17, 2002)

This to me is the ultimate insult from Miles to Cheeks... asking for interest to be paid on his lost wages



> _Oh, also, get this: The Blazers agree to pay Miles interest on his $150,000.
> 
> If this is true, Blazers coach Maurice Cheeks said, "I might as well pack my bags." _



It does not get anly lower than than that... wait... well I guess it does... * the organization is apparently agreeing to do it.*


You have to support your staff... you have to support your coach. The players will not respect them if you do not. Its pretty obvious Miles does not. He not only is getting his money back, but interest on it as well.


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## tlong (Jan 6, 2003)

I'm not sure why everybody is talking about the players association or Miles in this thread? The issue is *"why did the Blazers consider to pay back Miles and why did they lie about the document?"!* The more I see and read about Patterson and Nash the more I think they are idiots.


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## ProudBFan (Apr 29, 2003)

This one is hitting me in the gut right now. Just yesterday I sent a lengthy e-mail to Nash telling him all about how I was beginning to feel a sense of pride in the franchise again that I hadn't felt in a while, and thanking him for his efforts. And now this. I feel like a blithering idiot. Thanks, Blazers.

PBF


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## alext42083 (Nov 7, 2003)

If true, Blazers management needs to grow some balls and and fend for themselves.
Who the hell gets MORE money than their contract tells them they should (through interest) after essentially talking down to their boss (coach) and getting suspended?

That's terrible. This team has got to be the most frustrating to be a fan of in the NBA.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

why is this a big deal? Seriously?

I had written a long letter to Scott Lynn and Paul Lindman (both from KEX) but decided against sending it. In it, I had said that they are part of the problem too.

Honestly, bouncing a check? thats what we ***** about now?

Or a player being "paid" so he won't sue?

have we really come to this? 

When I used to hear people joking about how some fans want a team of "choir boys" to cheer for, I'd say "no, they don't want that"..

but the more stuff happens, the more that does seem to be the case. 

The Blazers paying Darius because he's their "favorite son", isn't the problem. The Players Union having suck stroke is. 

I'm tired of the lip-service that both the media and the team puts out. I wonder how John Canzano got his hands on that piece, because unless he has a "source" that purposely put it in his hands (which, imho, that guy or woman should be canned) he might've stolen it, and that should be something he should get in trouble for. 


If you brain wash people enough, they'll believe anything. Next thing you know, we'll hear a movement among the media to trade Darius and Zach.

Oh wait, there already is.


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## Reep (Jun 4, 2003)

Given Cheeks comments, do you think he now resigns? I think he was hanging by a thread a few weeks ago. If he finds out management is going behind his back with the players I think he resigns in the next few days. I would if I were him. This completely undermines the limited authority he had with the players.


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## ProudBFan (Apr 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hap</b>!
> why is this a big deal? Seriously?


It's only a big deal for me because it:

1. Stinks of duplicity.
2. Clearly shows that the players are the ones calling the shots in this organization.

It all adds up to a weak and floundering franchise that still doesn't get it. I'm not going to go jumping off a building about it, though. Just going to sigh, shake my head, and get back to work.

:no:

PBF


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## tlong (Jan 6, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hap</b>!
> why is this a big deal? Seriously?
> 
> I had written a long letter to Scott Lynn and Paul Lindman (both from KEX) but decided against sending it. In it, I had said that they are part of the problem too.
> ...


The problem is that the Blazers don't come clean with just about anything they do! I don't have a problem with settling with Darius...what I do have a problem with is the denial by Patterson until presented with the evidence. That is ridiculous.


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

OK let's think about this folks....We still don't really know much about the events of what occured, only what the writer of this article (Canzano) and Quik have told us. Why would the team offer to pay Miles his salary, in order to prevent him from sueing, if the suspension was justifiable? 

The team has taken the stance that they would fight any law suit from Qyntel Woods, why not Miles?

Maybe the suspensions was more an isssue of PR, duee tot he way the media piled on the story....

Bottom line if the team was justified in the suspension, why would they buy him off to prevent a lawsuit?


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

I'd also like to point out, that, once again there is info getting into the local paper that has no business in the media, and should be a private matter within the Blazers organization.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ProudBFan</b>!
> 
> 
> It's only a big deal for me because it:
> ...


how do you figure it shows the players are the ones calling the shots? Think about it. He filed a grievance. I'm sure that after enough of those, they've realized it's not worth the hassle or cost. 

It still seems to be a bit much to get our collective panties in a bunch over.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>tlong</b>!
> 
> 
> The problem is that the Blazers don't come clean with just about anything they do! I don't have a problem with settling with Darius...what I do have a problem with is the denial by Patterson until presented with the evidence. That is ridiculous.


so whats he supposed to do, go "Yah, we're thinking of paying darius anyways, because he's filed a grievance"?

that'd go over worse. Not only that, let's say that Crapzano *didn't* have the paper, and Patterson falls for his bluff. Now Crapzano can basically say whatever he wants and find out if it's true or not.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Schilly</b>!
> I'd also like to point out, that, once again there is info getting into the local paper that has no business in the media, and should be a private matter within the Blazers organization.


sometimes i wonder if there's a mole within the franchise, that's leaking information to make the team look worse than it really is. As in, a former Trader Bob loyalist who's hell bent on continuing the problem, or someone who just thinks they're here to "fix" everything.


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## hasoos (Jan 3, 2003)

*No big whoop*

I fail to see why this is news. Every player that gets suspended files a grievance, or threatens to file a grievance. Why is this case any different? Hell I don't blame Miles for filing a grievance, he is the one who has 150,000 dollars to lose. I think anybody on this message board who had an opportunity to file a grievance to get 150K back would do so if in the same spot. Money is money man. All that paperwork looked like to me was something his attorney probably typed up as a proposal to send to the Blazers..note nothing was signed. Lawyers will play hardball as needed, and often a letter of intent to sue is all that's needed to get a settlement rolling, and that is what I see here..

So.....

What is the big whoop? Why is such a big stink being made of this? Why is this even news?


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## azsun18 (Aug 12, 2004)

I dont see the big deal, 90% of all baseball suspensions are with pay. Does this get everybody worked up also? I agree a memo like this should not have been made public. Whatever company we work for has memos internally that we would not like to be released to the public. Enough of the local media trying to get headlines by dragging the Blazers down. Lets play some ball, the playoffs are within reach.


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## ABM (Dec 30, 2002)

*Re: No big whoop*



> Originally posted by <b>hasoos</b>!
> What is the big whoop? Why is such a big stink being made of this? Why is this even news?


Perhaps nothing. However, despite all the frivolity, (political) straws are continually mounting......


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>tlong</b>!
> 
> 
> The problem is that the Blazers don't come clean with just about anything they do! I don't have a problem with settling with Darius...what I do have a problem with is the denial by Patterson until presented with the evidence. That is ridiculous.


If I had a guy with the repuatation of bashing my company, like Canzanao clearly has, I would divulge 2 things only to him....Jack and **** and Jack left town.

Patterson has every right to deny activity that has no business being divulged. HTis is the type of business practice that happens on every team in the NBA, just none of the other teams have media that has every intention of destroyingt he franchise at hand.


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## Reep (Jun 4, 2003)

I'm surprised that some of you aren't bothered more by this. To me it breaks down simply. The Blazer management promoted a 25-point pledge to get the fans back. Unless this latest story is a complete fabrication by Canzano (unlikely, even for him) the same Blazer management now shows that they privately don't give a rip about the pledge or its values. 

If the Miles event was fabricated by the media, then the Blazers should bring out the truth. But, if the Miles event was real (as confirmed by Cheeks) then they need to step up and deal with it. I don't know why they appear to be taking a hard stance with Q and not with Miles. But, I would bet that even though they talk tough in the media about Q, I bet they settle and give him his full contract at some point. That would be consistant with the way they seem to be handling this latest event.


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Hap</b>!
> 
> 
> sometimes i wonder if there's a mole within the franchise, that's leaking information to make the team look worse than it really is. As in, a former Trader Bob loyalist who's hell bent on continuing the problem, or someone who just thinks they're here to "fix" everything.


Might explain a lot of the layoffs.


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## hasoos (Jan 3, 2003)

*I honestly don't see it that way.*

I really see this as once again, the media, in particular the Oregonian, trying to stir up a big stink about the Blazers, because at this point, its their bread and butter. 

Also to top it off, I think the Blazers really need to look at their organization, the professionality and confidentiality section, figure out who their leak is, and fire that person ASAP. Any move by an interior member of the organization to leak information to the public which the team has deemed confidential, is a firing offense, and unprofessional at the very least. Especially when it damages the business. I would find this leak if I were Patterson, and can that person ASAFP.


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

ANyone who is just running around being a "25 point pledge thumper" is doing nothing more than going out of their way to discredit the franchise....WHo gives a rats patooty about the 25 point pledge. HTey have a sports franchise to run, not Green Peace.


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## B_&_B (Feb 19, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Hap</b>!
> 
> 
> how do you figure it shows the players are the ones calling the shots? Think about it. He filed a grievance. I'm sure that after enough of those, they've realized it's not worth the hassle or cost.
> ...


my thoughts exactly!


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## BLAZER PROPHET (Jan 3, 2003)

I agree with ProudBfan (even though he is a Beaver fan). Clearly, the team has lost all confidence in Cheeks and it's the players that are in some sort of charge. Like Pippen led the insurrection against Dunleavy, Miles is leading the charge against Cheeks.

I'm going to send an email to the Blazers and call them out.


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## mook (Dec 31, 2002)

I don't really see the big deal here. 

yeah, the players association has a huge sway, but guess what? nobody goes to a basketball game to watch the GM or the owner. the players have a ton of power because they are the reason the NBA exists. without the players, all you have is logos and arenas. 

if I were Miles I'd threaten to sue too. money is money. 

I'm sure dozens of uglier things happen in the NBA every week that we never hear about.


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>ProudBFan</b>!
> 
> 
> It's only a big deal for me because it:
> ...


Thats not how things add up to me at all... There are several posters here who read the CBA and understands the legalese of the league that stated from the get go that the 25 point pledge was a hollow document that couldn't be enforced. It was escencially oil for the loud squeeky wheel/Ron Tonkin faction of the fanbase who've been whining about the franchise for a while now. 

That some felt/hoped this pledge could be enforced is on those fans for ignoring the clear signs that it couldn't... for some of the others it's  time. Hardly surprising. Now that the curtain has been peeled back revealing the pledge to be the farce it has always been, the Blazers are in the same exact state they were when that digruntled faction was diluding themselves that things had changed. 

I'm sure Nash and Patterson were aware they were mainly just posturing while going about their business of trying to put together a winner. 

STOMP


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## ProudBFan (Apr 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hap</b>!
> 
> how do you figure it shows the players are the ones calling the shots? Think about it. He filed a grievance. I'm sure that after enough of those, they've realized it's not worth the hassle or cost.


What would cost the Blazers more in the long run, Hap? Going through the grievance process (which, if everything we've heard about the situation is correct, they likely would have won) or news of the quiet settlement attempt going public?

Regardless...

1. Miles lashed out at his coach in an inappropriate way (well over the line of "conduct detrimental to the team").
2. Management slapped Miles on the wrist with a 2 game suspension.
3. Miles filed a grievance with the player's union.
4. Management considered (at the very least) - reimbursing Miles the salary he lost - PLUS interest - in order to avoid dealing with the grievance.

I think it's pretty clear from this sequence of events that Miles was the one calling the shots in this affair. Miles lashed out at his coach inappropriately then used a grievance with the players' union to cow the Blazers into reimbursing him the salary he lost due to the slap on the wrist they gave him. I don't think it gets much more cut-and-dry than that.



> It still seems to be a bit much to get our collective panties in a bunch over.


So any of us who react negatively to this news are merely "getting our panties in a bunch"? That's a rather demeaning way of spinning it, isn't it, Hap? Forgetting everything else that's happened over the past 3-4 years for a moment... why shouldn't we Blazers fans care about this? And why shouldn't our 'collective' reaction be negative?

Personally, I'm trying very hard not to get my 'panties in a bunch' over this. But telling me that it's not something to be concerned about doesn't help.

PBF


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## yakbladder (Sep 13, 2003)

I think my basic problems with this matter come down to this:

1) Why is it okay for a player to file a grievance no matter what they did? Just because "everyone does it" doesn't mean it was right in the first place. In this case, I think we can all agree (no matter how major or minor you'd label the incident) that Miles was at fault. If you got hit by someone, and they lost their license and were forced to pay money to you and then they filed a grievance because "heck, everyone does it" and they get their money and license back, how would you feel?

2) While it is true that the purported document was not signed, there aren't any denials going on here. Now, taking the long stretch jump of inference here, let's say the document really was devised inside Blazers' HQ. Well, on the one hand the Blazers have already issued their 4 billion points of light "we're great for the community, really" pledge and even looking that seriously at this option (notice it's typed up, not just discussed) smacks of direct contradiction with the pledge. No matter how ridiculous we all think the pledge is. In addition, it shows that despite telling the coach one thing and finally agreeing to suspend Miles, for a paltry or overbearing two games (depending upon your point of view) they've at least considered turning around on their own reassurances and nullifying the entire situation.

3) It could be argued that as much as Canzano seems fixated on tarnishing the Blazers in this, some fans seem intent on tarnishing Canzano because they have nothing better to do. Take Canzano out of the equation and look at the rest of it on its own merit. It either generates interest or it doesn't.

IMHO, it's a matter of basic ethics and morals. While I understand that nothing was actually done, the "fact" that something was typed up leads me to believe that someone at some high level (because those would be the only people involved in this type of negotiation) has the mindset that what was said and done was okay and that turning around on the actions previously stated and the statements previously made is okay just "because you can".


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

And for some "journalists" it's an open door to try to chip at the franchise as often as possible.

Canzano single handledy is the #1 PR problem the Blazers have.


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## BBert (Dec 30, 2004)

So, I'm reading this thread. I'm reading the quotes from Canzano's latest piece (of ****). And I'm just not getting it. Maybe it's just too early in the morning for me, but I really don't get the outrage, or why this is anybody's business outside the organization.

Really.

This is an internal company matter between an employee, their supervisor, the company president, and their respective attorneys. I don't know what happened between Cheeks and Miles. I don't know the stipulations of Miles' contract or the legal issues of the collective bargaining agreement in this case (for which I don't know the facts).

The incident between Cheeks and Miles shouldn't have been aired in the press in the first place.

We don't even know whether this unsigned document was ever approved or even seen by anyone other than the person who drafted it.

People and businesses settle lawsuits (or "grievences") all the time in the interest of saving money. The settlements are usually confidential.

Why do people think they own every aspect of these players' lives? We pay to watch basketball games -- sometimes. Most of the time, we enjoy the product for free. These people are not our personal slaves. Do you care about the private life of the guy who does your taxes?

I'm just sick of it. Not the behavior of the players in their private lives. Not the "duplicity" of the team management. I'm sick of the Portland media going to outrageous lengths to create and inflate whatever controversy they can in relation to this company (the Blazers). I'm sick of people getting whipped up into a frenzy by the Portland media over every little thing these people do, no matter how trivial (like forgetting to have your license with you while "driving while black (and famous)".

Maybe this is more important in some way than I realize. Maybe the concern is that the players won't respect Cheeks. Well, news flash, they already don't -- and neither do I. 

Charles Barkley once said that he told his daughter that he is not her friend, he is her parent. Your friend cannot tell you what to do or punish you when you misbehave. This may be Cheeks' biggest problem. But I digress.

I am truly sick of the Portland microscope. Just let them play ball.

I gotta go now -- I have to do my job.

Thanks for letting me rant.


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## Reep (Jun 4, 2003)

I understand the difficulty of enforcement of penalties against and agreement, but if this league is really about having no accountability for anything you do on or off the court, then you can have it. The reffing bias towards certain players and teams already removes most of it's credibility. 

Maybe it's time for me to move on. I really had hope for the Blazers with their young players and the thought that some of the trouble makers would be leaving. But now it sounds like Blazer management is doing a good job of grooming the next set of prima donnas. If this is all true, then it's only going to get worse. Where is the hope?


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## mook (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Reep</b>!
> I'm surprised that some of you aren't bothered more by this. To me it breaks down simply. The Blazer management promoted a 25-point pledge to get the fans back. Unless this latest story is a complete fabrication by Canzano (unlikely, even for him) the same Blazer management now shows that they privately don't give a rip about the pledge or its values.


to be honest, I don't think they give a rip about the values. neither do I. 

the 25 point pledge is just a marketing gimmick, no more important than all the others. sorry if you feel let down by it, but frankly I think you were foolish to think it was anything more than that. 

this isn't a church or a political organization or a non-profit. this is a business, and the soul purpose of any business is to make a buck. 

when the pledge helps them make a buck, they'll use it. when it doesn't, they'll ignore it. why anyone would believe they'd behave differently from this is beyond me.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

As others have said: not a big deal. I find it interesting, but not that major of an issue.

Lawyers can draft letters all the time, and they aren't necessarily indicative of the decisions made by their client. 

Teams can suspend players without pay all they want, and it doesn't necessarily mean they'll not end up paying the player in the end (along with wasting the league's, the team's, and the player rep's time).

If people need to see players punished in order to continue to enjoy the NBA or the Blazers, in particular, I think that they're going to continue to be disappointed. The NBA is big business and when you're talking hundreds of thousands of dollars, or millions of dollars, things like cursing at a co-worker (like Miles did to Cheeks, although I guess Cheeks might be a lower-paid manager with less job security, rather than a co-worker even though he doesn't have hiring/firing power) just aren't that big of a deal.

The most interesting thing to me is Canzano's personal crusade to expose the Blazers as hypocrites, after continually criticizing them as a flawed organization previously. He seems to be entirely out of touch with reality, and sugar-coating necessary moves doesn't seem to placate him.

Ed O.


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## Reep (Jun 4, 2003)

Blazer management has promoted themselves as solving the problems of the past by enforcing the rules. The private document shows that this is not the case. This kind of behind the scenes dishonesty is what sank Enron and what has reduced Merck to a shell of what it once was. 

And don't anyone kid yourselves about this "memo" or "draft". I work in this area and nobody drafts an agreement with that kind of detail until the primary terms are already agreed to by the parties. The fact that it wasn't signed has no significance to me. Signing was just an uncompleted formality. Although in all likelihood, another copy has already been executed.


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## Mr. Chuck Taylor (Aug 2, 2004)

This is just another example of the local media trying to create news by finding "dirt" on the team. Who hear really knows all the details of how the business side of a suspension works? For that matter, who here really knows dmiles' agent or canzano himself didn't type that letter? If this happened in any other city, you wouldn't hear more than a peep about it. Just last night Rafer Alston and his coach reportedly got in a physical confrontation at half time and alston left the arena . Afterwards Toronto's GM said Alston had done nothing to deserve a suspension and will be in the starting lineup tonight. These things happen in other NBA cities, and they die down rather quickly. But back in Portland, we are digging up documents about a case that, in a normal town, would have been over and done with by now.


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## ProudBFan (Apr 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>STOMP</b>!
> 
> 
> Thats not how things add up to me at all... There are several posters here who read the CBA and understands the legalese of the league that stated from the get go that the 25 point pledge was a hollow document that couldn't be enforced. It was escencially oil for the loud squeeky wheel/Ron Tonkin faction of the fanbase who've been whining about the franchise for a while now.
> ...


I see what you're saying, STOMP. But I don't understand why you (and others) are bringing 'the pledge' into this. As far as I'm concerned, this thing really has nothing to do with the pledge (and I do agree that it's hollow). It's about the franchise buckling to the whims of its players AND publicly saying one thing yet quietly, privately doing something very different.

I guess that last bit applies to the pledge as well, but as I think about this specific turn of events I'm not thinking about the pledge at all. Like you said, the pledge is a PR gimmick. Pure and simple. But what we have here is a much uglier, and only tangentally related, problem.

PBF


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## Reep (Jun 4, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>theWanker</b>!
> 
> 
> to be honest, I don't think they give a rip about the values. neither do I.
> ...


Wow, when did honesty and integrity lose all value? Honesty and integrity still mean a lot to me. It is a little disturbing that they don't mean much to many of the fans on this board. If it really comes down to winning and entertainment at any cost, morals be dammed, then so be it. It just makes me very sad.


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## yakbladder (Sep 13, 2003)

I don't think any of us expected the 25 point pledge to really hold. But the fact of the matter is that no matter whether the CBA violates it or not, no matter whether the Blazers thought it would go through or not, they issued it.

Look, I know Canzano's got a beef with the Blazers. I know Quick has Damon as his little inside scoop and is his favorite player. I know Dwight Jaynes is a two-bit, washed up hack with nothing better to do in his life. So stop trying to insinuate that those of us who care about the situation just don't see it's all an attack job. I don't care who is attacking who, that doesn't mean the incident doesn't exist.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ProudBFan</b>!
> 
> What would cost the Blazers more in the long run, Hap? Going through the grievance process (which, if everything we've heard about the situation is correct, they likely would have won) or news of the quiet settlement attempt going public?


the Warriors didn't win the PJ Carlesimo case. That was by far more cut and dry.



> Regardless...
> 
> 1. Miles lashed out at his coach in an inappropriate way (well over the line of "conduct detrimental to the team").


happens far more than we want to know about. Almost without question is normally handled "in house"



> 2. Management slapped Miles on the wrist with a 2 game suspension.
> 3. Miles filed a grievance with the player's union.
> 4. Management considered (at the very least) - reimbursing Miles the salary he lost - PLUS interest - in order to avoid dealing with the grievance.


because the grievance would've probably not gone in their favor. So not only would they have had to pay his salary, they would've also had to pay the cost of it going to grievance in the first place..and also cost the PR image of *losing* it.

This way, the issue would just go away.



> So any of us who react negatively to this news are merely "getting our panties in a bunch"? That's a rather demeaning way of spinning it, isn't it, Hap?


no it's not. Think about what we're complaining about. We're complaining about a letter that suggested the team *MIGHT* got this method. And we're acting like it's on par with the other crap that the team has put up with in the past.



> Forgetting everything else that's happened over the past 3-4 years for a moment... why shouldn't we Blazers fans care about this? And why shouldn't our 'collective' reaction be negative?


because it's not that big of a deal, thats why? 


> Personally, I'm trying very hard not to get my 'panties in a bunch' over this. But telling me that it's not something to be concerned about doesn't help.
> 
> PBF


It's just a slippery slope. Without accepting that the other sides story you can easily come off like we're doing a witch hunt.


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

I find it interesting that those who are so quik to point out dwindling attendance are also the ones going out of their way to make sure attendance stays that way.

This article is about what is a very common practice in Business, let alon in team sports where billions of dollars are involved. If Canzano was released...ya think he might file a grievance?


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Reep</b>!
> Blazer management has promoted themselves as solving the problems of the past by enforcing the rules. The private document shows that this is not the case. This kind of behind the scenes dishonesty is what sank Enron and what has reduced Merck to a shell of what it once was.


A primary difference (and there are many, of course) here is that the Blazers are breaking no laws in their internal negotiations, and the "rules" that some fans expect them to enforce are actually entirely vapor... they're rules that exist only in the imaginations and "common sense" of some fans and in the dreams of some owners who'd love to be able to get back some of the money they spend on players.

Ed O.


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## e_blazer1 (Feb 3, 2004)

The more I watch the new Blazer management in action, the more I wonder where Curly is. Larry and Moe are having a tough time running the organization without him.

What is pretty apparent here is that this organization operates on two levels. First, there's the public image that they've tried to build up to comfort the corporate sponsors and season ticket buyers. On that level, the organization comes out with a 25-point pledge and makes public displays that appear consistent with it. On a second level, the internal politics of doing whatever it takes to win comes more into play. You get Nash, who has just signed Miles to a long term contract, not wanting to do anything to upset his future star. He comes down in opposition to even suspending Miles at all after the guy goes ballistic against Cheeks. That won't square with the 25-point pledge once the thing becomes public, so now we find out that there are moves afoot to placate Miles behind the scenes.

I guess none of this surprises me, but it does make me yearn for the Harry Glickman days. I think Miles would now be playing for the worst team in the league and talking to a dentist about fitting him with a new set of front teeth.


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## ProudBFan (Apr 29, 2003)

Why do we keep wanting to throw The Pledge into this? It was - and is - a marketing gimmick, people.

Pretend The Pledge doesn't exist for a minute. We still have the very ugly situation of a franchise bowing to the whims of a player and attempting to quietly reverse course on a slap-on-the-wrist they had previously given that player. Completely disregarding The Pledge, it's interesting to me that some here aren't more concerned about this.

Yeah. I know. It's Canzano. But does that fact make this specific sequence of events any less relevant?

 

Just trying to understand where all of you are coming from on this so I can form a more informed opinion.

PBF


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## yakbladder (Sep 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hap</b>!
> happens far more than we want to know about. Almost without question is normally handled "in house"


So, I'm curious Hap, how many years did you play in the NBA? Or which GM or coach do you hang out with? I think it would provide some great insight into this and other matters.


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## hasoos (Jan 3, 2003)

*Well said Hap*

Well said Hap! A lot of overhyped bad news about an unsigned, unofficial document from a guy who spends his time playing Blazer fans like a bad banjo because he knows he can get away with it. Its amazing how many people immediately believe it, just because they read it.


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Blazer Bert</b>!
> So, I'm reading this thread. I'm reading the quotes from Canzano's latest piece (of ****). And I'm just not getting it. Maybe it's just too early in the morning for me, but I really don't get the outrage, or why this is anybody's business outside the organization.
> 
> Really.
> ...


This is the best post I have read in years.


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## Reep (Jun 4, 2003)

If there is no accountability for players in the NBA, then I have some suggestions for improvements:

1) get rid of the coaches. They just get in the way of the players being able to use their natural gifts. Look how long poor Damon has been wasting away until they finally discovered how to properly use him. You can just let the players fight with themselves over who will be in the game and what plays they want to run.

2) get rid of the flagarant foul. Since we are heading toward pro wrestling anyway, let's let the players go at it. This should please the highlight crowd and ESPN would love it.

3) award a bonus point for behind the back moves or any other move with style over substance. This would help get rid of those boring fundamental skills that some players are stuck on. Also change the scoring to dunk = 4 pts; dunk in a defenders face = 6 pts; layup (non-dunk) = 1 pt; keep the rest the same.

4) give the players get out of jail free cards. Everyone knows that with the money and resources that pro players have there is now way to find them guilty of almost anything. All they have to do is delay and spend money and eventually people forget. Let's just shorted the process and let them go free from the start. It would save everyone time and money.

5) give the players guaranteed contracts that pay them no matter what they do for 5-7 years with no way for the team to get out of them. Also, institute rules by where the team is completely unable to correct inappropriate behavior of the players. Oh, wait, we already have that. :upset: 

What do you think?


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>yakbladder</b>!
> 
> 
> So, I'm curious Hap, how many years did you play in the NBA? Or which GM or coach do you hang out with? I think it would provide some great insight into this and other matters.


I'm not sure what your point is. Are you suggesting that stuff like this wasn't handled in-house? 

So where else has it been handled in public like the oregonian is trying to make it?


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

Do we expect the Blazers to have press conferences for every Office Memo?

Tell me of a situation where a document or procedure like the one descrbied is something that should be declared.

Heck even Governmet documents of this nature are confidential.


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## yakbladder (Sep 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hap</b>!
> 
> 
> I'm not sure what your point is. Are you suggesting that stuff like this wasn't handled in-house?
> ...


No, I'm honestly curious. You said stuff like this happens all the time and that this is usually handled in-house. So I was figured you must have or had internal connections to the inner workings of a team. I was just trying to figure out which one or what your connection is so in the future we could just ask you more questions regarding the inner workings and how the media is distorting it.

Thanks...


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>yakbladder</b>!
> 
> No, I'm honestly curious. You said stuff like this happens all the time and that this is usually handled in-house. So I was figured you must have or had internal connections to the inner workings of a team.


listen to when former players talk. They talk about how stuff is handled in house.

You ever hear of a "kangaroo" court? The "brotherhood" of NBA players?

They do a lot of things that we fans never know about. One doesn't have to be a player to know that.



> I was just trying to figure out which one or what your connection is so in the future we could just ask you more questions regarding the inner workings and how the media is distorting it.
> 
> Thanks...


Think of it this way. Did you ever hear about drexler skipping out on practices during the late 80's and early 90's? Did you hear about the fights that happened during practices? 

Was Jordan suspended for decking Steve Kerr?


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## Sambonius (May 21, 2003)

A lot of you guys are making this into a much bigger thing than it is, talk about a soap opera on this board with the organization.


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## yakbladder (Sep 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hap</b>!
> 
> 
> listen to when former players talk. They talk about how stuff is handled in house.
> ...


So the other players, they might try and rectify the problem themselves, like leaking an incident to the paper then, right? Perhaps after they had already tried to handle the incident themselves internally with little to no success? Is that what you're saying? Just trying to clarify.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>yakbladder</b>!
> 
> 
> So the other players, they might try and rectify the problem themselves, like leaking an incident to the paper then, right? Perhaps after they had already tried to handle the incident themselves internally with little to no success? Is that what you're saying? Just trying to clarify.


seriously, why are you harping about this? 

how can you misunderstand what I said? 

do I need to dumb it down a bit?

player does something stupid.

team fines player. media *doesn't* make it into a federal offense. Fan's *don't* pinch loafs.

I don't know why you're arguing against what Im saying. It really seems pointless.


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

No offense but I made this for all of you who are actually getting upset at the organization over this situaation....


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## yakbladder (Sep 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hap</b>!
> 
> 
> seriously, why are you harping about this?
> ...


Mostly just to annoy you. It seems to have worked, thanks.


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## alext42083 (Nov 7, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Blazer Bert</b>!
> 
> Why do people think they own every aspect of these players' lives? We pay to watch basketball games -- sometimes. Most of the time, we enjoy the product for free. These people are not our personal slaves. Do you care about the private life of the guy who does your taxes?


It's what happens when someone chooses to become a professional athlete or are involved in pro sports - they become part of the public eye and things like this are made public. They're under public scrutiny, especially in a city where they are the only professional sports franchise.
That's why there's hundreds of different media devoted to the private matters of public figures.

Some fans may not like this leaking out, and some want to know everything that's going on within the franchise.

It's news, it gets people talking on message boards like this and a lot of others.
More importantly, for The Oregonian, it gets people talking about "that article they saw in the paper," and that's what they and all media want. People talking, which sells more papers.

I have no problem with this being reported. It may not be news to some, but to others, this is a big deal.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>yakbladder</b>!
> 
> 
> Mostly just to annoy you. It seems to have worked, thanks.


ooh, well if thats the reason, touche!


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## RipCity9 (Jan 30, 2004)

I can't believe something as inane as this gets splashed across the top of a major newspaper's sports section. Seriously - who cares? Talk about beating a dead horse, they had already overdone this story. Are they that hard up for things to write about? I'm beginning to long for the return of Vader.


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## Talkhard (May 13, 2003)

This may be the last straw for me. 

I've been a Blazer fan since 1970, but the franchise we have now is completely different from the one I used to love. This team is so out of control and so mired in duplicity and corruption that it makes my stomach turn. 

I tried to look the other way when they decided to build the team around Randolph, and I tried not to care when they gave Miles all that money, but when the crap gets so high it's blocking your view, you have to stop and look at it. This organization is full of crap, there's no doubt about it. All they care about is PR and image--not real integrity or character. 

The jig is up, Paul Allen. We see you for what you are. All that time Whitsitt was signing up criminals and thugs to play for Portland, you were all for it. It was only when they didn't win a title that you suddenly had a change of heart about "character" and "integrity." You obviously care nothing about those values, and neither does your henchman Steve Patterson.

A pox on both your houses.


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Talkhard</b>!
> This may be the last straw for me.
> 
> I've been a Blazer fan since 1970, but the franchise we have now is completely different from the one I used to love. This team is so out of control and so mired in duplicity and corruption that it makes my stomach turn.
> ...


You can continure being a fan, just don't read the paper. There have been issues all along, but for some reason the internal stuff rarely leaked to the media.

If your gonna quit being a Blazers fan over this, ya might think about quiting on all sports, it's no different anywhere. 

Steroids in baseball, continual drug/violence issues in the NFL, NHL out of commision for who know s how long, Riots in soccer, Olympic scandals, College Players being paid, never doing their own homework....

It's been there all along, but now we actually hear about it.


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## Kmurph (May 7, 2003)

I think this has been answered very well by several people here already, but when I read the paper this morning, I was not outraged at the Blazers, but by Canzano and the "local media" more.

I cannot fathom how fans or local media want to run Miles out of town for an arguement he got into with his coach. ONE bad arguement, ONE bad incident and all of the sudden he is garbage? What in the heck is going on here? Is this how overeactionary some of you have become? 

Rafer Alston blew up at his coach last night, for the SECOND time this year. Where is the public outrage against him? Where is the outrage to run him out of town on a rail? The guy left the arena while the game was IN PROGRESS, and both his coach and the GM said he will be PLAYING TOMORROW...no suspension...no fine. But somehow in the warped minds of the local media and some fans, the Miles incident is more reprehensible? Talk about a double standard!

I watched NBA Nation last night and BOTH Greg Anthony and Tim Legler said these sort of INTERNAL spats happen ALL THE TIME within teams. So POR is NOT the exception here, it is the local media that is the problem and the exception, b\c they apparently revel in embarrasing the Blazers EVERY CHANCE THEY GET....and it is just so VERY wrong...

This has to stop, and it isn't the Blazers who have to do a majority of the changing. IF this keeps up then we may very well see the Blazers leave POR for good, and maybe that is what some of the local media are really after, and how sad would that be for sports fans in Portland? The thought literally depresses me....


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## Hype #9 (Feb 14, 2004)

Its really not a big deal. Stuff like this does happen all the time in the NBA. 

Example: Jordan had an understanding with the Chicago media to not air out his "dirty laundry." He got in fights with teammates during his career, and was never suspended or made public at the time.

Usually the organization and the players have to work together with the media so that they have an "understanding", so that the players and organization look good, and so that the media have something to report about. BUT in Portland, there is no understanding. Canzano feels at liberty to be a detective and make it seem like the Blazers have done something so wrong, when just about every NBA team works the exact same way. You think we're the only team in the NBA that doesn't have dirty laundry? Well we're the only NBA team that has dirty laundry CONTINIOUSLY made public when it shouldn't be. Come on guys don't be naive.


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>ProudBFan</b>!
> 
> 
> I see what you're saying, STOMP. But I don't understand why you (and others) are bringing 'the pledge' into this. As far as I'm concerned, this thing really has nothing to do with the pledge (and I do agree that it's hollow).


The article that this thread is about specifically talks about the pledge and shows how it's at odds with management's actions in response to incidents including the latest Darius bru-ha. 



> what we have here is a much uglier, and only tangentally related, problem.


 I really don't understand where you see things differenciating. Players have a great deal of power in the league as they have for some time now. An organization making a pledge to appease disgruntled fans doesn't change the rules governing matters 1 iota. Often the players, coaches, and the league play roles to better connect with the masses... I'm well aware their public statements are not necessarily reflecting reality and are driven by PR concerns. The NBA is not like "the Real World" that we live in. You (and others) may not like this, but hey... maybe it's time to deal with it. Change the channel, don't go to games... do whatever you have to do... but don't expect others to join your outrage over becoming clued into whats what. 

I don't want to get to know the players, as I feel many/most of them are probably spoiled dumb bleeps... thats been my experience time and again with the top athletes I knew in HS, college and with most of the pro athletes I've run into and I don't expect this to ever change. While I often laugh at the shere audacity/runaway egos, I tune in because I love good hoops. 

It's as simple as that. 

STOMP


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Kmurph</b>!
> Rafer Alston blew up at his coach last night, for the SECOND time this year. Where is the public outrage against him? Where is the outrage to run him out of town on a rail? The guy left the arena while the game was IN PROGRESS, and both his coach and the GM said he will be PLAYING TOMORROW...no suspension...no fine.


His coach said he plans on starting him tonight while his GM said Rafer and coach Mitchell have to work on their relationship. I'd prefer it if Portland management would handle matters with such honesty instead of doing this elaborate song and dance, but whatever... 

STOMP


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## crandc (Sep 15, 2004)

> AND publicly saying one thing yet quietly, privately doing something very different.


Yes, I agree and this is the one thing that is bugging me. I do realize that internal blow-ups happen and that you can't hold a grudge forever. I also realize that it's a players' league, for better or for worse. And that a business will not always tell the public the details of internal matters. 
It's also true that the Oregonian has writers who seem to spend full time blasting the home team.
But I really have a problem with deliberate deception, if the story is true. That to my mind is what needs explaining. 

BTW, on Carlesimo, it's a stretch to say the Warriors "lost". They suspended Sprewell for a calendar year. The suspension was reduced on appeal to the remainder of the season. Still a hefty time off.
Don't know if they paid him under the table.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>crandc</b>!
> 
> BTW, on Carlesimo, it's a stretch to say the Warriors "lost". They suspended Sprewell for a calendar year. The suspension was reduced on appeal to the remainder of the season. Still a hefty time off.
> Don't know if they paid him under the table.


well, I meant they lost in the sense that their penalty wasn't fully enforced. So it's not out of the rhelm of possibility that the suspension/fine levied against Darius would've been over turned.


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Talkhard</b>!
> This may be the last straw for me.


I doubt it. I'm pretty sure you'll be complaining about the morality of NBA players for years to come.



> I've been a Blazer fan since 1970, but the franchise we have now is completely different from the one I used to love. This team is so out of control and so mired in duplicity and corruption that it makes my stomach turn.


Yeah the Blazer teams in the 70's 80's and 90's never had problems with behavior  Walton wasn't an acid head  Billy Ray wasn't a dumb drunk bleep  Alla Abdelnabi anyone? Does the name Rod Strictland ring a bell? 

IMO we're just hearing about the dirty laudry now like never before because of our local overzealous media thinking this is the best way to sell papers. To me it's just pathetic journalism. 



> A pox on both your houses.


good grief... 

STOMP


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## tlong (Jan 6, 2003)

I guess there are a lot of posters in this forum that think it's okay for the organization to lie to the fans. I don't. I am very tolerant with regard to many activities that go on in professional sports, but I do *not* appreciate being lied to by the organization. *That* is the crux of this issue in my opinion.


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## ProudBFan (Apr 29, 2003)

Okay, I just went back and re-read this entire thread, and here's where I stand on this one until some other news sheds more light on it:

1. Canzano is on a personal crusade to bring down the Blazers, and the Oregonian is backing him 100%. But this is nothing new.
2. Canzano most likely does have the document he described.
3. Canzano could have obtained the document from a number of sources, including Miles' agent or lawyer. But if he got it from someone inside the Blazers, someone will be losing their job.
4. Miles was wrong to lay into Mo the way he did in the first place.
5. That initial incident should have stayed "in house" in the first place.
6. Management's suspension of Miles was, at best, a slap on the wrist. And it clearly shows to me where their loyalties lie in this affair.
7. Given all of the above, Miles was in the wrong to file his grievance with the players' union. He should have seen his "punishment" for what it was, taken it like a man, and been done with it.
8. Management was duplicitous in even considering settling with Miles behind Mo's back (and ours), whatever their rationale. Again, the fact that they would even consider doing so shows me where their loyalties lie in this affair.
9. Canzano should never have obtained the document in question. The fact that he was able to tells me someone on the inside (could be on the Blazers' side of the fence or on Miles' side of the fence) is actively working with him in his campaign.
10. Given #1, above, how could we expect anything less from Canzano than taking this whole thing to print.
11. The Pledge has absolutely nothing to do with this. This is a case of a franchise buckling to the whim of one of their star players and attempting to quietly cover up that fact (duplicity).
12. There is an element here, in this forum, with a vested interest in minimizing the implications of #11, above.
13. I'm quite sure stuff like this happens in the NBA all the time. The difference here is that other NBA teams don't have members of the local media actively campaigning for their destruction.
14. Patterson and Nash are incompetent.
15. Given all of the above, Mo would be best served to jump ship asap.
16. Surprisingly, my panties aren't in a bunch over this. Just another day in Happy Blazerville as far as I'm concerned. Maybe some day the franchise will have a Management team willing to walk their talk, but that's definately not the case right now.

PBF


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## IBFree (Feb 25, 2004)

*this is also in another thread but....*

Let me get this straight.... 

Darius Miles blows up at his head coach, drops several N-bombs on him and generally acts like a spoiled little kid who wasn't allowed to watch Romper Room. 

Cheeks goes to management, which prompts Miles to continue his childish tirade. 

Management gives Miles a slap on te wrist for what essentially boils down to undermining what little authority Mo still has. 

Rather than actually apologizing, Miles issues some form letter that essentialy makes it sound like he did nothing wrong. 

Coach welcomes player back once his two-game vacation has ended, then player files a grievance for being suspended for verbally abusing his coach. 

Organization sees this and, according to The Oregonain at least, organization then considers paying Miles back for the $$ they fined him.

Where in there is any of this the media's fault? 

Unless none of this is true and the ENTIRE series of events has been fabricated, the problem lies with the player who is apparently oblivious and the organization that says one thing and does another.


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## Reep (Jun 4, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Talkhard</b>!
> This may be the last straw for me.


I'm with you. When it was just player issues, I had hope in management. Now, I don't have hope in either. Not much left after that.


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## Reep (Jun 4, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>ProudBFan</b>!
> Okay, I just went back and re-read this entire thread, and here's where I stand on this one until some other news sheds more light on it:


Nice summary PBF.


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

*Re: this is also in another thread but....*



> Originally posted by <b>IBFree</b>!
> Let me get this straight....
> 
> Darius Miles blows up at his head coach, drops several N-bombs on him and generally acts like a spoiled little kid who wasn't allowed to watch Romper Room.
> ...


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ProudBFan</b>!
> Okay, I just went back and re-read this entire thread, and here's where I stand on this one until some other news sheds more light on it:
> 
> 1. Canzano is on a personal crusade to bring down the Blazers, and the Oregonian is backing him 100%. But this is nothing new.
> ...


Good Job PBF, But I disagree on point #7....All suspensions or punishments get appealed in sports...period, it's just the way it is.


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## IBFree (Feb 25, 2004)

So, because I have my own opinion that differs from yours, you're just going to use your colorful little toy? Nice. Very Darius Miles of you.


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## Sheed30 (Apr 3, 2003)

Players always will try to get there money back. Look at Spree this year who cussed a female fan out and was suspenioned a game by the NBA, and Spree tryed to get his $ back for that game, just like Dale Davis did lasy year, and alot of other players as well. What really bugs me is that is there no way says that the source he gets it from it legit. When he was asked where he got the siurce from, this was his response. 

_But when asked to explain the document, an angry-sounding Wechsler wanted to know where The Oregonian obtained an unsigned copy. "Who's your source?" he asked, as if it matters. _ 

How course it matters where you get your soucre from, because all we know it could be false. I think it's stupid that Miles is trying to get the money back, but also the way Canzano made his story out to be, Blazers mangeement is made out to look bad, just like almost all his other articles. I mean, why even put in thatZ-bo bounced his check, the Blazers eventualluy took it out his pay check and donationed it, so he did donate. But Canzano is trying to make Zach and the Blazers look bad. I would love to see some new writers for the oregonian.


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## IBFree (Feb 25, 2004)

Seriously Schilly, what am I missing here? Because I think the problem lies with iles and the front-office I've been brainwashed?! Give me a freaking break.......


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## IBFree (Feb 25, 2004)

BTW, all the stuff about Miles needing gas money and Zach's check bouncing has NOTHING to do with this issue. THOSE were simply included in Canzano's piece to heap it on some more.....


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## IBFree (Feb 25, 2004)

Since no one has bothered coming up with an answer yet, I'll ask again: Where in the media at fault here? For yelling at Cheeks? For getting Miles suspended? I suppose you could argue that TOO MUCH information is made available, but that's what the media is SUPPOSED to do. I won't use something if I think it might come across the wrong way, but that's just me. There are PLENTY of writers who could care less as long as tey can se their name in print. I'm just amazed that Miles and management are being let off the hook so easily here.


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>IBFree</b>!
> Seriously Schilly, what am I missing here? Because I think the problem lies with iles and the front-office I've been brainwashed?! Give me a freaking break.......


Of course I am making lfun only in joking sense....

But I think you are mssing the big picture by looking at an isolated incident. HTat's where Canzano has you and others nailed.

Does he talk abou the "N-Bomb" and tell us that Young black men use the term as many other s use the term "Dude" or "Man", no he doesn't he makes it out to be a racially driven tirade. 

Does he point out that Players challenging coaches happens in every major sports city, with just about every team?....No He doesn't.

In stead he sensaitionalizes it as a Racially driven explosion in the face of the coach, he also makes it sound like it's a Blazer specific issue. Neither of which is true.

He gives us a splinter of truth, just enough to paint the worst possible puicture of the organization, but never the whole truth.

Is there problems in Sports? Sure there are and always have been, but tell it like it is, not how how it partly is.


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## Hype #9 (Feb 14, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>ProudBFan</b>!
> 7. Given all of the above, Miles was in the wrong to file his grievance with the players' union. He should have seen his "punishment" for what it was, taken it like a man, and been done with it.
> 
> PBF


I agree with everything in your summary except this. If you were suspended like Miles was, but you saw a loophole for you to get your lost money back, you wouldn't do it? I don't fault Miles for filing the grievance, but I do fault the system(players' union).


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

BTW I am in no way justifieing Darius' use of the "N-Bomb" but I am pointing out a differenc of perception.


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## ProudBFan (Apr 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>IBFree</b>!
> Since no one has bothered coming up with an answer yet, I'll ask again: Where in the media at fault here? For yelling at Cheeks? For getting Miles suspended? I suppose you could argue that TOO MUCH information is made available, but that's what the media is SUPPOSED to do. I won't use something if I think it might come across the wrong way, but that's just me. There are PLENTY of writers who could care less as long as tey can se their name in print. I'm just amazed that Miles and management are being let off the hook so easily here.


Management is definately at fault for allowing the media such unfettered access to their players (and this isn't the first time I've voiced that opinion). And Management _may_ also be at fault for continuing to employ someone willing to provide the media with such a damning piece of documentation (and I say "may" here because, for all we know, it could have come from Miles' camp).

PBF


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

What if the Blazers had suspended Miles for 3 games? Or for 10? Or attempted to void his contract?

Should Darius have taken it like a man?

Maybe Darius didn't think the suspension was fair, considering the circumstances, and he knows the circumstances much better than we do.

If Cheeks had never had a blow-up with any other player, I would doubt Miles was justified in the least. As it is, though, Mo's been clashing with one player or another for a few years now, so I'm much less likely to do so.

With this said, I still think that the 2 game suspension was fair based on what I know. I refuse to deny Darius his bargained-for process, though, just because *I* think it's fair.

Ed O.


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## ProudBFan (Apr 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Ed O</b>!
> With this said, I still think that the 2 game suspension was fair based on what I know. I refuse to deny Darius his bargained-for process, though, just because *I* think it's fair.


I'm not denying him his bargained-for process. I'm just saying that the fact that you _can_ do something doesn't always mean you _should_. And in this case, given what I know of the situation, I don't think Miles _should_ have filed the grievance.

His "punishment" was a slap on the wrist, at most, and one that sent a clear message that Management felt they had to pay lip-service (and nothing more) to their support for Mo. From Miles' perspective, had he looked at it that way, that message alone would probably have been worth $150,000 (plus interest).

PBF


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ProudBFan</b>!
> 
> His "punishment" was a slap on the wrist, at most, and one that sent a clear message that Management felt they had to pay lip-service (and nothing more) to their support for Mo. From Miles' perspective, had he looked at it that way, that message alone would probably have been worth $150,000 (plus interest).


Why should Miles have to pay for lip service?

He seem to lack respect for Cheeks as a coach, and that lack of respect seems to permeate the front office, as well.

I don't think that just because Darius is going to make millions of dollars this year $150,000 is something that he'd refuse to try to reclaim for PR purposes, or so the Blazers brass can give their lame duck coach some backhanded support.

Ed O.


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## ProudBFan (Apr 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Ed O</b>!
> 
> Why should Miles have to pay for lip service?
> 
> ...


I see your point, Ed. But I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one. Yes, Miles was entitled to file his grievance. But in the hindsight of everything that has come of it, I don't think he _should_ have. Then again, I feel the Blazers shouldn't have even considered settling with him outside the due course of the grievance, either. Where was the harm for them to go through that (and possibly the resulting lawsuit)? From where I stand, they would have had a very good chance of winning on "conduct detrimental" grounds.

PBF


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## yakbladder (Sep 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Ed O</b>!
> 
> 
> Why should Miles have to pay for lip service?
> ...


Ed, aren't you the one talking about building for the future with this team?

Then what sort of message do you think it sends the players "for the future" if the brass decides that they need to just excise the coach out of the equation and let them do what they will without a fight.

I'm pretty certain, though not absolutely sure, that Paul Allen has a team of lawyers that could fight any lawsuit for as long as it took and he'd still be able to afford a nice European vacation.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>yakbladder</b>!
> 
> Then what sort of message do you think it sends the players "for the future" if the brass decides that they need to just excise the coach out of the equation and let them do what they will without a fight.
> 
> I'm pretty certain, though not absolutely sure, that Paul Allen has a team of lawyers that could fight any lawsuit for as long as it took and he'd still be able to afford a nice European vacation.


But why does supporting a lame duck coach help things? And why should Allen spend money on a team of lawyers to fight a battle that nobody really cares about?

If the Blazers as an organization were really upset about the Miles/Cheeks situation they would have :

-- suspended him for longer than two games, and/or
-- not seriously considered settling with Miles.

It seems to me that the only people upset about the situation between Miles and Cheeks are (a) Cheeks, and (b) some fans. Cheeks is going to be gone relatively soon, so I don't really care what he thinks, and the upset fans appear to be the same people who have been upset about the team for a long time, so that's not a big change.

Ed O.


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## tlong (Jan 6, 2003)

Why suspend Miles at all if they are going to settle with him after the fact? In effect all they did was give him a nice little paid vacation. This is just another demonstration that the people that run the Blazers organization are brainless boobs.


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## yakbladder (Sep 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Ed O</b>!
> 
> 
> But why does supporting a lame duck coach help things? And why should Allen spend money on a team of lawyers to fight a battle that nobody really cares about?
> ...


Well apparently somebody cares about it, because Darius is asking for his money back.

And it doesn't matter whether Cheeks is let go today or next year, the fact remains, he IS the coach, for better or worse whether you and Darius like it or not. So now if any coach comes along, and Darius gets into a fight with them why wouldn't he just think "Screw them, I'm just going to wait till management fires them. I'm going to go off on him however I want because I know I'll get my money back and management doesn't care what I do." What's to stop him from having this thought after all this has transpired?

Now multiply this by twelve, as all the other players have seen how you've handled this. And regardless of whether that memo should've been leaked or put into print or not, the fact remains that it is in print. It is now part of reality. And that means all the other players have now heard about it.


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## ProudBFan (Apr 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>yakbladder</b>!
> Now multiply this by twelve, as all the other players have seen how you've handled this.


Well, you can definately multiply it by at least two, because DA is attempting to go over Mo's head for PT right now as we speak.

PBF


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## Hype #9 (Feb 14, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>tlong</b>!
> Why suspend Miles at all if they are going to settle with him after the fact? In effect all they did was give him a nice little paid vacation. This is just another demonstration that the people that run the Blazers organization are brainless boobs.


PR move. The story was leaked by Quick. Management had to respond. It was a PR move.


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## Oldmangrouch (Feb 11, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>yakbladder</b>!
> 
> 
> Mostly just to annoy you. It seems to have worked, thanks.


Oh goody, just what we need around here. We really need an emotican for "please don't feed the trolls". :no:


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>yakbladder</b>!
> 
> Well apparently somebody cares about it, because Darius is asking for his money back.


That's why I said there was a battle. If Miles didn't care, there would be nothing to argue about.



> And it doesn't matter whether Cheeks is let go today or next year, the fact remains, he IS the coach, for better or worse whether you and Darius like it or not. So now if any coach comes along, and Darius gets into a fight with them why wouldn't he just think "Screw them, I'm just going to wait till management fires them. I'm going to go off on him however I want because I know I'll get my money back and management doesn't care what I do." What's to stop him from having this thought after all this has transpired?


Nothing. What's to stop him from doing ANYTHING? 

The next coach will have additional job security that Cheeks does not have. Mo was not hired by PatterNash, he's failed to win the past couple of seasons, and he's had repeated clashes with different players. A new coach will have some capital to use in any confrontation with players that Mo simply has used up (or never had under this management).

I'm hoping that the management (if they're considering not fighting a grievance hearing) has done these sorts of calculations, and has determined that the team's relationship with Miles would be more damaged by fighting him.



> Now multiply this by twelve, as all the other players have seen how you've handled this. And regardless of whether that memo should've been leaked or put into print or not, the fact remains that it is in print. It is now part of reality. And that means all the other players have now heard about it.


They're big boys. If I had to guess, I'd say they're happy that the fine might not stick... the next time Cheeks goads them it reduced the chances of it costing them money.

Ed O.


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

I think we've been duped by Canzano. I have no doubt the document exists. What I do doubt is the validity that there was any intention whatsoever to use it.


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## Kmurph (May 7, 2003)

What a bunch of hyppcrites some of you are....

Miles gets into an arguement with his coach AN ARGUEMENT, and you want to label him as some cancerous being that will ruin the youth of this team...this is just outright pathetic. Have NONE of you ever gotten into a bad arguement before? What else has Miles done? Has he got caught for drugs? stealing? Has he been charged with a felony? Has he called fans names? What has he done, besides this arguement, BEHIND CLOSED DOORS, that makes him such a pariah? 

Seriously....

Some of you are coming off so "holier than thou" that it is bordering on laughable. But of course I am sure Canzano, and several of you have NEVER made mistakes, NEVER held grudges & NEVER done anything stupid. HYPOCRTIES, that is what you are, a bunch of hypocrites.

....and those of you complaining that Miles should have taken his $150,000 penalty "like a man" are being ridiculous. Would YOU forfeit that kind of money, if you knew there was an appeal process that could get your money back? It is a ridiculous notion
to suggest that someone other than yourself ought to just FORFEIT that kind of money willingly, how easy it must be for you to do when that money is not yours.



> Since no one has bothered coming up with an answer yet, I'll ask again: Where in the media at fault here? For yelling at Cheeks? For getting Miles suspended? I suppose you could argue that TOO MUCH information is made available, but that's what the media is SUPPOSED to do. I won't use something if I think it might come across the wrong way, but that's just me. There are PLENTY of writers who could care less as long as tey can se their name in print. I'm just amazed that Miles and management are being let off the hook so easily here.


Really, is that what the media is SUPPOSED to do? Make mountains out of molehills? Where is the uproar in TOR regarding Rafer Alston? Where is the media in the bay area lambasting GS or Cliff Robinson for his latest drug suspension? I don't see\hear the same furor coming form their media, do you? 

...and the fact that NBA analysts and FORMER players Greg Anthony & Tim Legler talk about how blow ups happen all the time in NBA organizations and are kept behind closed doors, is completely irrelevant to you? I guess those types of things are considered normal in all NBA markets but POR? 

and please explain to me how Miles and POR mgmt are being "let off the hook easily"? What, should we hold a public inquiry? The FACT is what occured b\t Miles and MO is really not as BIG of a deal as Canzano, the local media and fans like you are making it to be. THAT is what is wrong here. Trying to make it appear as if POR is some duplicitous oprginization when they are only doing what ANY other orginization would do.


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## IBFree (Feb 25, 2004)

I just love how tha fact that crap like this happens everywhere seems OK with everyone. No wonder sports in general are such a cesspool. 

Yes, in THIS THREAD, Miles and management are being let off the hook. Most of you want to trash Canzano and/or people who have a problem with what Miles and the front-office have done over the past few weeks. 

Bottom line, there's NO STORY at all if Miles doesn't berate his coach in front of the team, nor is there a story if management either just ignores it all together or actually follows through on their "punishment." 

Those are the facts and they cannot be explained away by blaming the media.


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## IBFree (Feb 25, 2004)

Make mountains out of molehills?

Actualy, that's what the posters here are doing. Canzano wrote an article, it's readers that are making it out to be a mountain.


Where is the uproar in TOR regarding Rafer Alston? 

Don't know, I live in Portland and cover the Blazers. Maybe you should call Toronto and ask. I was unaware that everyone who worked in the media was part of some brotherhood. Last I checked, Toronto can report/not report whatever they want. Frankly, that's neither here nor there. If they want to ignore a player losing his composure and literally walking out on his team, that's on them. 


Where is the media in the bay area lambasting GS or Cliff Robinson for his latest drug suspension? I don't see\hear the same furor coming form their media, do you? 

The Bay Area media do bash the Warriors, but they also try to see the positives. Good for them. As for Cliff, again, I'm not the Oakland media, I can't tell you what they do or why they do it. I'm pretty sure that Cliff getting suspended for sparking up again got it's fair share of ink. Since you're a Blazer follower (I'm assuming a fan, but I don't want to label anyone), I would imagine that you haven't exactly ben following the Warriors all that closely.


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>IBFree</b>!
> I just love how tha fact that crap like this happens everywhere seems OK with everyone. No wonder sports in general are such a cesspool.
> 
> Yes, in THIS THREAD, Miles and management are being let off the hook. Most of you want to trash Canzano and/or people who have a problem with what Miles and the front-office have done over the past few weeks.
> ...


I'm not letting the team or Miles, or Mo of the hook because it happens everywhere. As a sports fan I either have to accept that it happens or I need to turn away from sports altogether. I won't do that, I love sports. 

As far as trashing Canzano. He is berateing the team over a speculation that a cantract is considered an "option". And BTW the team suspended him and followed through by enforcing it. No agreement has been settled on, and apparently there is no intention on the Blazers side to do so, so how are they not following through?


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>IBFree</b>!
> I just love how tha fact that crap like this happens everywhere seems OK with everyone. No wonder sports in general are such a cesspool.


If the Blazers are held to a higher standard than the teams they are competing against, then what happens in the NBA as a whole matters a lot.

As for sports in general being a cesspool (I think you might be talking about "pro sports in general"): that's the way it is, perhaps. 

The average NBA player makes about 78 times what the average high school teacher in the US makes. 

If someone's going to let these unfair elements (and, in many respects, it IS unfair that pro players can be jerks and can be so dramatically overpaid relative to other professins) get in the way of being a fan, then they aren't going to be a fan.

Because neither of these things happened overnight, and neither of them are going away any time soon.

And, for some fans, even if we DO see them as less-than-ideal, they don't detract from the level of basketball that's being played in the NBA.

Finally, I don't blame Canzano for writing what he did. I think that it's a newsworthy story. But the manner in which it was presented, and the way that some fans seem to lap up the vitriol, seems overstated.

Ed O.


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## BLAZER PROPHET (Jan 3, 2003)

Ah, but Ed, the quality of basketball has steadily gone downhill for several years. [sigh] What's a fan to do?


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## SheedSoNasty (Dec 31, 2002)

I just read the first few posts being that I just got back from class (and don't have the attention span right now to read all 7-8 pages)... but here's my opinion:

The outlet of this story should be ashamed of himself in the first place for trying to stir up the pot even more, and seeing as how everyone's up in arms about this issue, he succeeded in doing just that.

I don't know what kind of vendetta he has for this team or this city, but I really wish he would just give it a rest. Behind almost every major company and venue there are unspoken business propositions and deals that are not supposed to be made public, and as much as we need more bad press like we need a kick in the pants, this is definitely not something positive for this franchise. This is just a sad reality that our little market was never supposed to find out. That said, there's not a doubt in my mind that this sort of thing happens all the time in other cities (especially L.A. and N.Y.) and it's mostly due to our small market (and evil doing reporters) that helped leak this story to the public.

As for the 25 point pledge, if it's not something that they can live up to, don't do it. Don't draw it out, don't plan it and you definitely don't promise it to the fans. If in fact this was all just a big smoke screen, management tried to pull a fast one on it's fan base and ended up getting caught with it's pants down. A bad business move that was poorly executed and accompanied by bad timing. That said, it doesn't matter if "they have a business to run" or "it's just basketball", if this is something that they pledged to the fans, it's something that I, and everyone else, should expect them to fullfill.

As significant or insignificant as you want to look at this situation, there's really no way to shine a positive light on it.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BLAZER PROPHET</b>!
> Ah, but Ed, the quality of basketball has steadily gone downhill for several years. [sigh] What's a fan to do?


I don't think that the quality of basketball has gone down at all. I think that it's actually gone up in many respects, especially with the infusion of international star-level players and the emergence of recent prep superstars.

Ed O.


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## Kmurph (May 7, 2003)

> I just love how tha fact that crap like this happens everywhere seems OK with everyone. No wonder sports in general are such a cesspool.


What world are you living in? Go ahead rant and rave to the world that athletes is sports and professional franchises are what is so very wrong with scociety then...IT won't change a damm thing. Blame everybody then, but don't try and make it appear that what happened b\t Miles and Mo is SO much different that what happens on other professional teams, b\c it isn't.

Posters like you piss me off, you bemoan the state of professional sports and professional athletes. If you don't like it then why are you a fan? Whay are you posting here? If sports in general are such a cesspool, then why bother watching them? 

Like you are so superior of a human being than Darius Miles or any other athlete is? Like you are above reproach? above error? People like you are the biggest hypocrites there are, you talk the talk, but you don't walk it....If it offends you so much then leave...Don't watch sports, make your ridiculous stand and see how many other sports fans go with you. My guess is VERY VERY few, but at least you won't be a hypocrite, and we will be spared from your self absorbed righteous indignation.



> Most of you want to trash Canzano and/or people who have a problem with what Miles and the front-office have done over the past few weeks.


For the FIFTEENTH BILLION TIME,....What is so reprehensible here? Miles arguing with his coach? Miles using innapropriate curse words in his arguement with his coach? Mgmt not suspending him unto infinity for an internal dispute that never should have seen the light of day in the first place?

I have an idea, why don't we place video cameras around YOUR house, around YOUR woprkplace, and then every time YOU say/do something wrong\stupid, we can LAMBAST you on your behavior, and denigrate YOU as a human being, or your boss for not firing YOU on the spot. 

Or are you infallible? :no:



> Bottom line, there's NO STORY at all if Miles doesn't berate his coach in front of the team, nor is there a story if management either just ignores it all together or actually follows through on their "punishment."


THE FACT IS...There is no story AT ALL, in the first place. Miles and MO argued, Miles overeacted, end of story....Now cool down, get together and talk when heads are cooler, and work together.....and that is exactly what they have done. It is the media and fans like YOU who won't let this incident die...and therein lies the problem.


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## IBFree (Feb 25, 2004)

You're correct Schilly, the team did suspend Darius, so they have followed through. My point was that if they actually rescind the fine and repauy Miles, they won't be following through.


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## BLAZER PROPHET (Jan 3, 2003)

*Ed O*

Hmmmmm.... you make a good point....


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## IBFree (Feb 25, 2004)

Murph, since you seem intent on attacking me personally, I'm just going to try to answer you without sinking to your level. 

First: I'm a fan becase I love basketball. The NBA isn't about basketball, it's about making money. Just becase it's flawed and reeks of corruption doesn't mean that I can't have an opinion on it. Sorry, but my rose colored glasses don't seem to be working anymore.

Second: Of course I'm human. In fact, if I get into a shouting match with my boss, I get fired. See, that's how the REAL WORLD works. Miles, as all pro athletes, lives in a fantasy world where they can do anything they want. 

As far as setting cameras up everywhere, fine, as long as I'm raking in millions of bucks hand over fist for playing a game. 

See, that's part of the job, having people criticize you're every move and judging it. 

You might not like it, but that';s just the way it is. (SOrt of like how Miles is allowed to get into a heated argument with his boss and have people like you wanting to let it slip because it happens everywhere, right? 

Great logic.

Oh yeah, I haven't attacked you, so you might want to grow up a bit and stop attacking me. I'm presenting my opinion and, believe it or not, I'm as entitled to mine as you are to yours.


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>IBFree</b>!
> You're correct Schilly, the team did suspend Darius, so they have followed through. My point was that if they actually rescind the fine and repauy Miles, they won't be following through.


The part of the contract that people are ignoring is that if he were to sign it he would also forfeit his right to sue the team, which in the end would be even worse from a PR standpoint and may end up costing the team at least 2 times what ti would cost them to just settle out of court.


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## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>IBFree</b>!
> You're correct Schilly, the team did suspend Darius, so they have followed through. My point was that if they actually rescind the fine and repauy Miles, they won't be following through.


You don't consider benching him 2 games to be punishment?


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>IBFree</b>!
> Since no one has bothered coming up with an answer yet, I'll ask again: Where in the media at fault here?


The media has been feeding the public rosey little pictures of their sports heros for nearly a century now. Were they neglecting their responsibilities when they didn't tell on Babe Ruth for being a womanizing drunk leaving a litter of kids across the country? Those stories were always there, and they'll probably always be there. 

Of course all is not rosey in the current Blazers locker room, just like it probably hasn't been perfect in any locker room ever... IMO it's only the niave that buy the bleep that it was perfect in the Bulls locker room back in MJ's day (when reporters let all sorts of tabloid stories on Mike's nightly womanizing/gambling slide) or in the Lakers room just a couple seasons ago... news orgainizations largely choose what they want to report.

The O seems to feel it is their best business interest not to report so much on the actual games, but on all the speculative tabloid bleep they can uncover/make up. Heck their supposive "beat" reporter's work is mostly spin off of random quotes. I'd guess that they feel by pushing the public's collective buttons they'll sell more papers then if they just try to appeal to fans of the team/sport by recapping games. 

Is that there fault? Thats up to you and your dollar to decide... to me it's just a bunch of bleep that I don't care about. I know NBA players are spoiled jerks just like I know that many performers in other fields are premadonas... I still like to hear great singers sing, watch great actors act, and to see great athletes perform. Thats my fault.

STOMP


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## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Schilly</b>!
> 
> The part of the contract that people are ignoring is that if he were to sign it he would also forfeit his right to sue the team, which in the end would be even worse from a PR standpoint and may end up costing the team at least 2 times what ti would cost them to just settle out of court.


Exactly.


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## IBFree (Feb 25, 2004)

Being suspended two games WITH pay is not punishment. 

Beng suspended two games WITHOUT pay would qualify.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Schilly</b>!
> 
> The part of the contract that people are ignoring is that if he were to sign it he would also forfeit his right to sue the team, which in the end would be even worse from a PR standpoint and may end up costing the team at least 2 times what ti would cost them to just settle out of court.


sounds a lot like what I said here


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## yakbladder (Sep 13, 2003)

Can we just agree to disagree, without resorting to name calling, and move on to the next subject.....


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## IBFree (Feb 25, 2004)

For the record, I've refrained from the name-calling.


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>IBFree</b>!
> Being suspended two games WITH pay is not punishment.
> 
> Beng suspended two games WITHOUT pay would qualify.


He hasn't received his money back. In fact Patterson said they had no plans of following that route.


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## Kmurph (May 7, 2003)

> First: I'm a fan becase I love basketball. The NBA isn't about basketball, it's about making money. Just becase it's flawed and reeks of corruption doesn't mean that I can't have an opinion on it.


Fine, have an opinion on it then, but don't sit there and bemoan something that is beyond your control, and hold a particular player (Miles) or a particular organization (Blazers) for not acting any differently than any other team\player in there particular sport or professional sports in general would do. 



> Second: Of course I'm human. In fact, if I get into a shouting match with my boss, I get fired. See, that's how the REAL WORLD works. Miles, as all pro athletes, lives in a fantasy world where they can do anything they want.


LOL, NO that is how YOUR world works....The REAL world is unfair, and being angry at Miles for living under different rules is laughable IMO. He didn;t make those rules, he just lives by them, and that is just the way things are. You just refuse to acknowledge or deal with it.



> Oh yeah, I haven't attacked you, so you might want to grow up a bit and stop attacking me. I'm presenting my opinion and, believe it or not, I'm as entitled to mine as you are to yours.


Whatever.....

Maybe you ought tone down your sermon then...


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

What is kinda funny is no party is right in the situation.

Miles is wrong for undermining the coach.

The team is wrong for not suspending him longer.

Mo is wrong for not benching him for a few more days.

The Players association is wrong for possibly filing a grievience for Miles.

So is anyone ever right?


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## IBFree (Feb 25, 2004)

I was responding to the poster who implied that Miles will have been punished, even if the team decides to pay him his $$ back.

If he gets stuck with the fine, then I'm cool with the punishment. If he gets his money back, it's a joke.


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## tlong (Jan 6, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Schilly</b>!
> 
> He hasn't received his money back. In fact Patterson said they had no plans of following that route.


That does not seem to be the case given the contents of the document.


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>tlong</b>!
> 
> 
> That does not seem to be the case given the contents of the document.


It was an unsigend document. It's isn't official until it is signed.

Heck all sides even agree that no settlement has been made.


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## tlong (Jan 6, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Schilly</b>!
> 
> It was an unsigend document. It's isn't official until it is signed.
> 
> Heck all sides even agree that no settlement has been made.


The fact of the matter is that the document exists...at least I believe it does...and it was prepared by the Blazers legal team. This means they are *at least* considering the settlement terms. My gut feeling is that they have already settled. Patterson lied about the existence of the document so it is no surprise that he would lie about paying back Miles as well.


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## Kmurph (May 7, 2003)

> My gut feeling is that they have already settled. Patterson lied about the existence of the document so it is no surprise that he would lie about paying back Miles as well.


Of course you have verifiable proof of that right? That Pattersen IS indeed lying and that he IS lying about paying back MIles, and has already done so?

An UNSIGNED document proves nothing...LITERALLY


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

Of course the fact that Miles' agent says no settlement has been made, as well.


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## tlong (Jan 6, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Kmurph</b>!
> 
> 
> Of course you have verifiable proof of that right? That Pattersen IS indeed lying and that he IS lying about paying back MIles, and has already done so?
> ...


And I suppose you have irrefutable proof that Patterson is not lying?


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

Supposedly the Document will be posted on Olive shortly.

Word is Canzano is having a tough time scanning the napkin.


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## trifecta (Oct 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Schilly</b>!
> OK let's think about this folks....We still don't really know much about the events of what occured, only what the writer of this article (Canzano) and Quik have told us. Why would the team offer to pay Miles his salary, in order to prevent him from sueing, if the suspension was justifiable?
> 
> The team has taken the stance that they would fight any law suit from Qyntel Woods, why not Miles?
> ...


I don't know if this has already been discussed in this thread but I've been led to believe that this is essentially the case.

The Miles incident, while wrong, was something that occurs multiple times during an NBA season (sort of like fights in practice.) The only reason this got to be so big was because the media heard/saw it occur.

I'm also tired of the media making such a big deal about the 'racial slur'.


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## Maybeso (Jan 29, 2003)

*May I be allowed an unfounded speculation?*

Could this not be a prelude to a trade of Miles? Or perhaps even a change of his extension? 

Nah. Players get traded with pending grievances, namely, DD. Is there anything Miles could do to hold up a trade that would give him leverage to negotiate a return of his fine?

Can extensions be renegotiated this soon?

Let's spice this up with your favorite conspiracy theory. You have about beat the rest of it to death.

Back to lurking...


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## JFizzleRaider (Nov 1, 2004)

this whole situation disgusts me, tells me management lies to us....maybe we should boycott the blazers and let them know we are for real


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## Talkhard (May 13, 2003)

Anybody remember Tommyboy? He was one of the best posters we had--articulate, intelligent, well-informed, and funny. But he checked out about a year ago because he was so fed up with all the crap surrounding the Blazers. He just couldn't take it anymore.

Now I'm thinking he was right. I am so sick of this dysfunctional team and this smarmy spineless organization. My decades-long love affair with the Blazers is waning faster than I ever thought it could. I'm just about ready to write my "Dear John" letter and say good-bye forever. 

Maybe I'm out of step with the times. Maybe I just don't understand this generation of players. Maybe good behavior and corporate integrity matter too much to me. Maybe I'm just overreacting. But I don't think so. 

The Blazers have become a cesspool, and the stench is awful. I really don't understand how some of you can endure it.


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## Kmurph (May 7, 2003)

> And I suppose you have irrefutable proof that Patterson is not lying?


How about being innocent until proven guilty? Or does that not apply to the Blazers?



> I am so sick of this dysfunctional team and this smarmy spineless organization. My decades-long love affair with the Blazers is waning faster than I ever thought it could. I'm just about ready to write my "Dear John" letter and say good-bye forever.


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Talkhard</b>!
> Anybody remember Tommyboy? He was one of the best posters we had--articulate, intelligent, well-informed, and funny. But he checked out about a year ago because he was so fed up with all the crap surrounding the Blazers. He just couldn't take it anymore.


Hmm...I don't think that's necessarrily an accurate statement.

I know Tommyboy very well on a personal level, and yes to some extenet the constant drama drove him away, but more than that, the teams mediocrity left him with little to talk about.

TB is a football fan 1st. Mostly he bailed on the forum.


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## Talkhard (May 13, 2003)

> I know Tommyboy very well on a personal level, and yes to some extenet the constant drama drove him away, but more than that, the teams mediocrity left him with little to talk about.


I don't know Tommyboy personally, but I do remember his last post, in which he said that he couldn't take all the player misconduct that was going on. It wasn't the team's record, it was the attitudue and behavior of the players.


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Talkhard</b>!
> 
> 
> I don't know Tommyboy personally, but I do remember his last post, in which he said that he couldn't take all the player misconduct that was going on. It wasn't the team's record, it was the attitudue and behavior of the players.


No he didn't. I just went back and read his last several posts and the closest he came to saying what you're claiming is when he started a thread about the league being rigged for superstars and certain teams. 

http://www.basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?postid=1247373#post1247373

from the link...


> Originally posted by <b>Tommyboy</b>!
> that's why I'm done watching the NBA, forever.
> 
> I cut off baseball after the 1994 strike and never looked back.
> ...


STOMP


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

This soap opera is getting boring....I'm turning the channel


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## Talkhard (May 13, 2003)

> No he didn't. I just went back and read his last several posts and the closest he came to saying what you're claiming is when he started a thread about the league being rigged for superstars and certain teams.


I stand corrected. But didn't Tommyboy have some things to say about misconduct by Blazer players? I seem to recall that. Or maybe I'm just losing it.


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## Blaze_Rocks (Aug 11, 2004)

How much is his contract worth?? This serves the Blazers right, investing so much in such a project was stupid...:rotf: :rotf:


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