# Final 4 weekend: Everybody post your thoughts! Come on guys!



## starvydas (Jul 16, 2002)

After watching them on TV, here are my thoughts on the semis of the Euroleague Final 4.

First let me post the results 

Siena-Treviso 62-65
Barcelona-Moscow 76-71

My thoughts:

-Treviso played godly in the first quarter, hitting shots and defending well but they'll have troubles guarding the Barca's big men

-Siena played their heart out but relied too heavily on Alphonso Ford (4/19)

-Vrbica Stefanov has to be one of the most underrated PG in Europe, he had an excellent game. He dished and penetrated at will in Treviso's D

-Tyus Edney has to be one of the worst defending PG in Europe. He made Stefanov look like Jason Kidd.

-Denis Marconato was the best player on the floor . He controlled the paint, shot well and did not crack under pressure 

-Trajan Langdon deserves another shot at the L : he didn't have a great game but you can see he's a wonderful shooter and it looks as if he has learned to drive more.

On to the other semi:

-Dejan Bodiroga is sooooo protected by the refs it's not even funny. Every time there was the slightest contact on him, the refs called a foul. Made me scream at the firggin TV set.

-How the heck is J.R. Holden not in the NBA??

-How the heck is Gregor ****a not in the NBA??

-I'm becoming very skeptical about Anderson Varejao's game. He got outplayed by Darius Songaila and generally looked very soft against Moscow's big men. IMO he's not worthy of a lottery pick.

-Victor Khryapa owned Bodiroga on D, forcing him to pass and dribble too much. He was domianting the defensive boards and hit the shots he had to make. If scouts were in the stands (and I'm there were some) they should be convinced he's a better prospect than Varejao (even though he won't declare this year).

-Sergei Monya has a bright future ahead of him too.

-My prediction for the final : Barcelona 84-Treviso 87 

For those of you who watched the games, go ahead and post yout thoughts!!! Don't be shy!!!


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## JGKoblenz (Jul 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>starvydas</b>!
> 
> -I'm becoming very skeptical about Anderson Varejao's game. He got outplayed by Darius Songaila and generally looked very soft against Moscow's big men. IMO he's not worthy of a lottery pick.


You must understand the concept of *potential*. That's what scouts look first, not how they are playing at the moment.

Skita was drafted at 5 and he wasn't playing in his European team. Varejao is playing in Barcelona a top team in Europe with great players at every position. That alone is a great acomplishment. If he stayed in Brazil he probably would have huge numbers. :yes: Once he gains more upper body strength you will stop to calling him soft, I watched the kid and I know he plays with huge intensity. 

Why do you think he won't declare?

According to NBADraft.net he already declared, here is the link:

http://www.nbadraft.net/2003earlyentry.htm


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## Zalgirinis (Feb 18, 2003)

*Re: Re: Final 4 weekend: Everybody post your thoughts! Come on guys!*

I've seen only second semi. I was supporting both Lithuanian players. It wasnt Saras day and Songaila was good, but missed very important 3 and did crucial mistake, when Navaro stole the ball. Holden played good, but hes too selfish for European team, I think sometimes it hurted CSKA. Refs work was pathetic. If two stay silence, the third will definetly will call a foul, not looking that hes standing 10 metres from the place... Thats why 3 refs sucks in Euroleague, I never found any advantage of 3 refs here. Maybe it fits in NBA, but why to copy it?


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## starvydas (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: Re: Final 4 weekend: Everybody post your thoughts! Come on guys!*



> Originally posted by <b>JGKoblenz</b>!
> 
> 
> You must understand the concept of *potential*. That's what scouts look first, not how they are playing at the moment.
> ...


JG, as a Brazilian I know you're rooting for Varejao which is absolutely legit (as a French, I do the same thing for TP) but you also have to acknowledge a player's flaws.

Now let me clarify that by no means do I think Varejao will be a bust or that he has no potential. The thing is I judge players by what I see from them, and the comments I made above were based on the four games I've seen from Barcelona this year. I might have been very unlucky and just seen the games where he did not impress me, but again from what I've seen he's not a lotto pick (and I do consider potential when I say that). First round for sure but not a lotto pick. 

Also, I think comparing him to Skita is really awkward, as far as potential is concerned. Skita was already praised for his shooting abilities and ballhandling skills for a big man. For now I think we both agree that Varejao is just a hustle, all energy player who relies on his will and athleticism to be competitive. I mean it's nice to have potential but you still have to have solid fundamentals so that this potential can be unleashed. Remember Yinka Dare had a lot of potential too but it does not mean a thing if you don't have the basis to work on that. No I'm not comparing Varejao to Dare, and I believe Varejao definitely has something to work on (a developping outside shot, a pretty decent defense). Not just quite enough to be considered a lotto pick though.

Obviously we don't agree on that, it's really no big deal.


> Why do you think he won't declare?


Sorry for the misunderstanding, actually I was writing that about Victor Khryapa who will likely declare next year.


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## JGKoblenz (Jul 19, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Final 4 weekend: Everybody post your thoughts! Come on guys!*



> Originally posted by <b>starvydas</b>!
> 
> Obviously we don't agree on that, it's really no big deal.


Hey, no big deal at all. 

I see your point, and I see tha faults you pointed out, but knowing Anderson, he will work hard to improve. And althought you still think he doesn't deserve a lotto pick, it seems that the majority of scouts see him being drafted in the lottery. :yes: 

Just to stay at the topic my thoughts about the Final 4, I will stick with my pick when the champioship started. Barcelona will win it. I'll try to watch the next games.


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## suspect (Sep 10, 2002)

> -How the heck is J.R. Holden not in the NBA??


The reason why he is not in the NBA is because he is a 1.80 m shooting guard, is inconsistent and has a very bad shot selection...I diagree with you about Langdon as well..



> -Dejan Bodiroga is sooooo protected by the refs it's not even funny. Every time there was the slightest contact on him, the refs called a foul. Made me scream at the firggin TV set.


 Having the chance following Bodiroga for four years I agree with you


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## Marco Mitis (Dec 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>starvydas</b>!
> 
> -How the heck is Gregor ****a not in the NBA??


Could be that maybe the answer in his name?
I could guess the agerage Joe calling him "madafuka" or something.


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## brazys (Jul 17, 2002)

anderson varejao didn't impress me either. sure, he can run the floor and is quick for a big man, but he is 3 years away from being contributing NBA player. 
he has to work on fundamentals a lot - what are his post moves? how bad is he covering the ball? how is he gonna get a rebound from, say, antonio davis?
although yesterday he hit a mid range J, so i guess he can shoot the ball already.
overall, anderson is a raw material yet. but i see him being in nba one day, because nba has much worse frontmen employed.


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## Genjuro (Jul 17, 2002)

Varejao's main problem has been his playing time. He needs it badly. But now, as the court of the European Union has decided about the condition of not foreigners for Europeans from certain countries (Lithuania, for example), Varejao will be able to play the reminder of the season in the Spanish League along with Bodiroga (foreigner) and Jasikevicius (now, not foreigner).

Anyway, in he continues playing in Barcelona for the next season, he will have the same problem again, as Vujanic (foreigner) is expected to sign with the team.

About Langdon, now I see why he couldn't succeed in the NBA. He is an unidimensional and undersized SG. Nothing to get excited about.


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## JGKoblenz (Jul 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Genjuro</b>!
> Varejao's main problem has been his playing time. He needs it badly. But now, as the court of the European Union has decided about the condition of not foreigners for Europeans from certain countries (Lithuania, for example), Varejao will be able to play the reminder of the season in the Spanish League along with Bodiroga (foreigner) and Jasikevicius (now, not foreigner).


I totally agree with you Genjuro, it's almost impossible to show your game playing that little. We will be able to watch Varejao's real game at the Pre-Olympic Championship, when Brazil will have to face Argentina and the Dream-Team.

And I heard about him playing the Spanish League, that would help him a lot.


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## Marco Mitis (Dec 17, 2002)

I've watched the final at my home together with a friend from Los Angeles, a LA Lakers subscriber.
He started asking who's this, who's that, why the paint is so large, hey, that's Trajan Langdon, whow, Edney, what, what's the name of this guy? F***a? AhAhAHAHAh.
By thye 3rd quarted he was asleep on my sofa.
As an Italian I was emotionally involved in the game, but was it so boring or what?


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## suspect (Sep 10, 2002)

The 3d place game (Benneton-Montepasci) was a bit boring and so were the semifinals..... The final was pretty good though IMO...


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## brazys (Jul 17, 2002)

> was it so boring or what?


it definitely wasn't, but an american could watch that match as a NBDL playoff game with attitude like "hey, nuggets would kick their asses". although in reality barca could make it to the playofs in nba in my opinion.


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## qwertyu (Dec 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>starvydas</b>!
> After watching them on TV, here are my thoughts on the semis of the Euroleague Final 4.
> 
> First let me post the results
> ...


I'm glad I'm not the only who thinks Varejao is way over-rated and Khryapa is way under-rated. Why would anyone pick Varejao over Khryapa anyway?

Khryapa according to this site has declared and if the Bulls are smart enough they'll pick him with the 7th pick.


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## qwertyu (Dec 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>suspect</b>!
> 
> The reason why he is not in the NBA is because he is a 1.80 m shooting guard, is inconsistent and has a very bad shot selection...I diagree with you about Langdon as well..
> 
> Having the chance following Bodiroga for four years I agree with you


yeah Bodiroga is too damn dirty lol


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## qwertyu (Dec 29, 2002)

*Re: Re: Final 4 weekend: Everybody post your thoughts! Come on guys!*



> Originally posted by <b>Marco Mitis</b>!
> 
> 
> Could be that maybe the answer in his name?
> I could guess the agerage Joe calling him "madafuka" or something.


haha that's probably the main reason why, even if it sounds funny.
Most parents wouldn't allow their kids go and watch a team that has a player with such a name. He also wants a guaranteed 3-year contract to go to the NBA and that's another reason why no team has picked him up.


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## qwertyu (Dec 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Marco Mitis</b>!
> I've watched the final at my home together with a friend from Los Angeles, a LA Lakers subscriber.
> He started asking who's this, who's that, why the paint is so large, hey, that's Trajan Langdon, whow, Edney, what, what's the name of this guy? F***a? AhAhAHAHAh.
> By thye 3rd quarted he was asleep on my sofa.
> As an Italian I was emotionally involved in the game, but was it so boring or what?


lol funny story.
Well I don't think it's boring or anything, but if you're not familiar with the teams and players it could be a little boring I guess.


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## Matiz (Jun 5, 2003)

Barcelona won because of the refs!!!!!
Top 16 game against Union Olimpija almost turned me into a serialkiller... 
Respect to all who hate Bodirogas play, JEBISE ****A!


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## qwertyu (Dec 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Matiz</b>!
> Barcelona won because of the refs!!!!!
> Top 16 game against Union Olimpija almost turned me into a serialkiller...
> !


Yeah Bodiroga has that effect on people. I feel exactly the same way


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## ostend (Jun 8, 2003)

*just felt like reacting*

Just felt like reacting to what certain people said in the beginning of this thread. To this one guy who asked why jr holden isn't in the NBA, i guess the NBA needs to open their eyes. I know he'll make it. 
And to the 2 people who commented jr of not being good and being sellfish, well you're wrong dead wrong. JR is a magnificent person and player. The least you can say of him, is that he's sellfish and takes stupid shots. He's the bom, ever since he left his team in ostend, well let me put like this , the team is worth nothing anymore, he was the team. So if he ever gets there, they be lucky to have him, hope he never changes and remains my bro. Take a look at other players before you judge him in the way you did. 
Maybe he didn't play good in the second game of the final four, but for him and the rest of the team, the final four was over. They all felt that way. So don't judge what you don't know:whatever::upset:


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