# Game 22: Lakers (16-9) @ Wolves (10-11)



## socco (Jul 14, 2002)

*December 20th | 7:00 PM | FSN*

*Wolves Starters*
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</td></tr> <tr><td align=center>*13 | Mike James*</td> <td align=center>*31 | Ricky Davis*</td> <td align=center>*23 | Trenton Hassell*</td> <td align=center>*21 | Kevin Garnett*</td> <td align=center>*30 | Mark Blount*</td></tr></table>

*Lakers Starters*
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</td></tr> <tr><td align=center>*1 | Smush Parker*</td> <td align=center>*24 | Kobe Bryant*</td> <td align=center>*4 | Luke Walton*</td> <td align=center>*10 | Vlad Radmanovic*</td> <td align=center>*54 | Kwame Brown*</td></tr></table>

<table><tr><td colspan=5 align=center>*Wolves Reserves*</td> <td width=25></td> <td colspan=5 align=center>*Lakers Reserves*</td></tr> <tr><td>







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*Prediction
Wolves 102 | Lakers 92*

*Bet on the game with vBookie*​


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## JuX (Oct 11, 2005)

I'm back in Twin Cities  but I'll be out tonight with friends 

Wolves play better at home, so let's see.


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## The Merlin (Apr 9, 2004)

With Odom out, Wolves will win. 88-82


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## shookem (Nov 1, 2005)

KG started the game on fire but the Lakers on a 11-2 run 39-55 Lakers.

Ricky Davis is playing awesome though. Hit a nice half court shot.


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## Mateo (Sep 23, 2006)

please win.


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## JuX (Oct 11, 2005)

Nice alley-oop from Mike James to Ricky Davis then a steal and running dunk by Ricky but the Wolves quit playing in the 4th quarter. We're basically done in the 4th that's why we're 10-12.

Change the 4th qtr tone immediately.


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## socco (Jul 14, 2002)

Ugh. Maybe we should try scoring more than 7 points in the 4th quarter, might help. And try not to give up 34 points in the 4th to a Kobe-less Lakers team. Pathetic. There's no other word for it.


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## the main event (Aug 22, 2005)

Losers.


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

allen iverson alone could have scored more than 7 points in a 4th quarter.
good job refusing to take a chance on an all star when you've got these clutch players right mchale?

good game (well half a game) from garnett and ricky, foye is producing when he gets minutes, but hes just not getting enough.
jaric stays out there when he didnt do a thing all game.
and casey is a complete moron... a 16 to 4 (or close to) run and he refused to call a time out..


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## JMES HOME (May 22, 2006)

lakers made a huge run in the 4th,, badluck


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

JMES HOME said:


> lakers made a huge run in the 4th,, badluck


that wasnt luck man, that was good play from one team and absolutely terrible play and coaching from the other.

oh, throw me in the aussie sig :cheers:


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## essbee (Oct 30, 2006)

pretty bad effort, still not sure how mike james fits into this team. He disappears for long stretches.


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## JuX (Oct 11, 2005)

Avalanche said:


> allen iverson alone could have scored more than 7 points in a 4th quarter.
> good job refusing to take a chance on an all star when you've got these clutch players right mchale?
> 
> good game (well half a game) from garnett and ricky, foye is producing when he gets minutes, but hes just not getting enough.
> ...


I believe that Casey left KG in the bench way too long especially when we really need him the most. 4th quarter is always been our nightmares, have been since the day Casey was hired as a head coach. KG can play the entire 2nd half, the last game prior to the Lakers game was what? 4nights ago. He already got plenty of rest between those two games and he was freshly ready to go but no, thanks to that Casey. He blew it up with his pisspoor coaching performance and strategies. It's very sad knowing that we got a bad coach who screwed us up in the 4th quarter. This time without Kobe?! You've to be kidding me. Radmanovic was the man.


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## alexander (May 6, 2005)

I told you, you should have signed Radmanovic, he could help KG like nobody else


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## JuX (Oct 11, 2005)

Told me what? I didn't see anything about it. What's your point?


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## alexander (May 6, 2005)

Juxtaposed said:


> Told me what? I didn't see anything about it. What's your point?


http://www.basketballforum.com/showthread.php?t=237438&page=2

actually, it was exactly you!

my point is you don't go in the offseason to sign a first-shoot, second-drible, third-turn-over, fourth-pass PG in Mike James when you desperately need streaky shooter at SF position to spread the defense for KG.
And not only that, somehow you manage to draft exactly the same player you already signed(not to mention that you already had two good PG's - Jaric, Hudson).......wow, how stupid is Kevin McHale???


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## socco (Jul 14, 2002)

I know James hasn't been great this year, but signing Radmanovic would've been a horrible move. Is Troy Hudson supposed to be our starting PG then? James is a far better scorer, better defender, and a better 3-point shooter than Radmanovic. Plus he's a PG, which we needed, and he's a veteran, which we also needed.


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

much preffer mike james over radman, no matter how disappointing he's been


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## JuX (Oct 11, 2005)

alexander said:


> http://www.basketballforum.com/showthread.php?t=237438&page=2
> 
> actually, it was exactly you!
> 
> ...


BTW, James is having a hell of night tonight while Vlad is not.

Hudson isn't that good of a PG, he happens to have a good first season with the Wolves.


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

wolves go down again tonight, to the bucks


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## socco (Jul 14, 2002)

I thought this team played defense? That's 3 or 4 games in a row now where we've had no D at all.


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## JuX (Oct 11, 2005)

We were shot down by the referees with our blocking foul calls and some turnovers that were actually committed by the Bucks but they pointed toward us for some of them.


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## alexander (May 6, 2005)

Juxtaposed said:


> BTW, James is having a hell of night tonight while Vlad is not.
> 
> .


what's the point, you lost

but hey, if you are happy with James dropping 28 points once in a blue moon while your team is still losing, trust me, i'm more than happy

btw, Vlade played pretty good in the Lakers *WIN* over the Nets


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## JuX (Oct 11, 2005)

alexander said:


> what's the point, you lost
> 
> but hey, if you are happy with James dropping 28 points once in a blue moon while your team is still losing, trust me, i'm more than happy
> 
> btw, Vlade played pretty good in the Lakers *WIN* over the Nets


What's the point making a big deal over a simple two letters word?


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## alexander (May 6, 2005)

socco said:


> I know James hasn't been great this year, but signing Radmanovic would've been a horrible move. Is Troy Hudson supposed to be our starting PG then?


no, Marko Jaric is the best PG on that team.



socco said:


> James is a far better scorer, better defender, and *a better 3-point shooter than Radmanovic.*


this is a joke, right?

a far better scorer?

Vlade is averaging almost 7ppg in 16.3mpg - FG% 466, 3p% 400%,
while James is averaging 13.3ppg in 30.8mpg - FG% 432, 3p% 377
plus Vladys shooting hand is still injured

so, how is he a far better scorer?



socco said:


> Plus he's a PG, which we needed, and he's a veteran, which we also needed.


once again, you don't need a PG when you already have 2 PG's, + a draft pick. And you don't need a veteran who spent his whole career on the losing teams(except Detroit where he was a non-factor)


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## socco (Jul 14, 2002)

alexander said:


> no, Marko Jaric is the best PG on that team.


Except for the fact that he's not a PG. We tried that last year with Jaric, it failed miserably.



alexander said:


> this is a joke, right?
> 
> a far better scorer?
> 
> ...


Radmanovic not playing many minutes is not a good thing. This isn't the deepest team in the world. Would you rather have 7ppg out of your MLE or 13ppg? The answer is pretty simple. Even with the bad start James has had, and his numbers across the board being less than what was expected, I'd still take him every day of the week over somebody averaging 7ppg.



alexander said:


> once again, you don't need a PG when you already have 2 PG's, + a draft pick. And you don't need a veteran who spent his whole career on the losing teams(except Detroit where he was a non-factor)


Jaric is a SF, Hudson doesn't even play anymore. Yes we *did* need a PG. And I don't care if he spent his career on losing teams. He can't control that. But he is a hard worker and a leader. Radmanovic is a follower, we don't need that.


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## alexander (May 6, 2005)

socco said:


> Except for the fact that he's not a PG. We tried that last year with Jaric, it failed miserably


.

i'm pretty sure Jaric had better numbers when he was starting as a PG than James has now 



socco said:


> Radmanovic not playing many minutes is not a good thing. This isn't the deepest team in the world. Would you rather have 7ppg out of your MLE or 13ppg? The answer is pretty simple. Even with the bad start James has had, and his numbers across the board being less than what was expected, I'd still take him every day of the week over somebody averaging 7ppg.


the point is Radman as a SF, along with KG in the lineup, would average at least 15ppg in 30+mpg, and he would certainly make KG better by making more room in the paint.

and btw, Radmanovic is the one who is getting better
last 5 games(since Odom got injured):
13ppg, 25mpg, FG%.568, 3P%.455......just a fact



socco said:


> *Jaric is a SF*, Hudson doesn't even play anymore. Yes we *did* need a PG. And I don't care if he spent his career on losing teams. He can't control that. But he is a hard worker and a leader. Radmanovic is a follower, we don't need that.


OK, you say James has been disappointing. Now, lets say Casey sends him on the bench because he has been bad and doesn't play him at all the rest of the seoson. Then, in the offseason, McHale acquires a PG who is expected to start. Then, in the preseason, Casey comes to James and says you will play 15mpg only as a SF. And then, of course, the fans are starting to hate him just because he is not very productive as a SF. 
Does that make him a SF?


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## socco (Jul 14, 2002)

alexander said:


> i'm pretty sure Jaric had better numbers when he was starting as a PG than James has now


9.3ppg, 41.6% FG, 30.9% 3-pt. Pretty sure not.



alexander said:


> the point is Radman as a SF, along with KG in the lineup, would average at least 15ppg in 30+mpg, and he would certainly make KG better by making more room in the paint.


How do you figure? How does he benefit any more than a PG would? I can see how a shooter would be a good fit, but James is a better outside shooter than him, so what's your point?



alexander said:


> and btw, Radmanovic is the one who is getting better
> last 5 games(since Odom got injured):
> 13ppg, 25mpg, FG%.568, 3P%.455......just a fact


13ppg is supposed to be a good 5 games? That's what James is averaging for the season and he's been crap. That says alot when one guy's good play is similar to another guy's crappy play.



 alexander said:


> OK, you say James has been disappointing. Now, lets say Casey sends him on the bench because he has been bad and doesn't play him at all the rest of the seoson. Then, in the offseason, McHale acquires a PG who is expected to start. Then, in the preseason, Casey comes to James and says you will play 15mpg only as a SF. And then, of course, the fans are starting to hate him just because he is not very productive as a SF.
> Does that make him a SF?


First of all, that's not going to happen, because as bad as he's been he is still by far our best PG, whereas Jaric certainly wasn't last year. Second, they wouldn't move James to SF because he's not a SF. Jaric is. *He said it himself.* And he's playing much better in that role. The fans are starting to actually like him this year even though pretty much everybody hated him last year. I don't care if he played PG in LA, that's not what he is anymore. He's not a PG, playing him at PG this season was not an option.


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## alexander (May 6, 2005)

socco said:


> 9.3ppg, 41.6% FG, 30.9% 3-pt. Pretty sure not.


i meant numbers not points & FGs
----------FG%---3P%---FT%--STL--BLK---TO---OFF--DEF--AST--PTS 
Jaric-----41.6--30.9--69.5--*1.53*--*0.33*--2.0--*0.9*--*2.4*--*4.8*---9.3 
James--*42.7*--*35.4*--*89.1*--0.74--0.11--2.0--0.3--1.9--4.5--*11.6* 

that's 5-4 for Jaric, plus Marko improved his shooting this season,so...



socco said:


> How do you figure? How does he benefit any more than a PG would? I can see how a shooter would be a good fit, but James is a better outside shooter than him, so what's your point?
> 
> 13ppg is supposed to be a good 5 games? That's what James is averaging for the season and he's been crap. That says alot when one guy's good play is similar to another guy's crappy play.


simple basketball stuff, Radmanovic as a SF and his shooting ability would be the perfect complement to Garnett's inside game & viseversa, and then instead of your starting shooting-PG you can have a true playmaker 



socco said:


> First of all, that's not going to happen, because as bad as he's been he is still by far our best PG, whereas Jaric certainly wasn't last year. Second, they wouldn't move James to SF because he's not a SF. Jaric is. *He said it himself.* And he's playing much better in that role. The fans are starting to actually like him this year even though pretty much everybody hated him last year. I don't care if he played PG in LA, that's not what he is anymore. He's not a PG, playing him at PG this season was not an option.


haha, you are telling me, die-hard Jaric fan, that Jaric stated that he is a SF :rofl2:, c'mon i did't come here to laugh, you obviously have no idea how strong Jaric's desire to be a PG is, in fact, that's why he asked for a trade, he has no intention to be a (back up) SF to the rest of the season/contract

i said this before, i'm not worried about Marko, he'll get back on track sooner or later, whether in Minnesota or somewhere else, but unfortunately for you it seems like it won't be in Minnesota


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## socco (Jul 14, 2002)

alexander said:


> haha, you are telling me, die-hard Jaric fan, that Jaric stated that he is a SF :rofl2:, c'mon i did't come here to laugh, you obviously have no idea how strong Jaric's desire to be a PG is, in fact, that's why he asked for a trade, he has no intention to be a (back up) SF to the rest of the season/contract


And you obviously don't know much about Jaric recently, as has been evident in this thread.


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

lol yeah quite obviously has seen very little of jaric this season, if at all.
hes terrible when he tries to run the point, vision isnt good enough and other quicker PG's light him up.
hes better at the 3, but i want him gone...


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## alexander (May 6, 2005)

Avalanche said:


> lol yeah quite obviously has seen very little of jaric this season, if at all.
> hes terrible when he tries to run the point, *vision isnt good enough* and other quicker PG's light him up.
> hes better at the 3, but i want him gone...


this is where i see that you have no idea how good Jaric is, Jaris's vision is probably one of the best in the NBA, and i tell you why 
he is taller than any other PG in the league which gives him an advantage to see over the defense, which he does a lot(at least he did in LA) This is just one segment of his game that makes him a great playmaker and especialy shotmaker. *It's not a coincidence that all Maggette, Quentin Richardson, Bobby Simmons,* *Wally and even Hassell had the best season when Jaric was their point guard.*(check the stats if you don't believe me)
but apparently Casey doesn't have enough experience to know how to use these stuff, his offense is all about giving the ball to Garnett so he can make plays(btw this kills every PG in Minny, including Mike James) or just give the ball to the ballhog Ricky Davis and whatever happens happens...the ball movement is just horrible. In other words, Casey is stupid!

and yes, i didnt watch a lot of games this season, but i do know that he played 0 minutes at the point. However, those games i watched i could se that most of his points come in the PG style(off the driblle, driving layups, coast to coast layups etc.) but usually he is way too passive(because of that ball movement), he often just stays in the corner doing absolutely nothing, couple of times he didn't even touch the ball in like 3-4 possession in a row which is crazy...
...and that's why he's leaving(hopefully), he just had enough

and yea, beleave me i want him gone much more than you do, he'll benefit from the trade more than everyone


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

alexander said:


> this is where i see that you have no idea how good Jaric is, Jaris's vision is probably one of the best in the NBA, and i tell you why
> he is taller than any other PG in the league which gives him an advantage to see over the defense, which he does a lot(at least he did in LA) This is just one segment of his game that makes him a great playmaker and especialy shotmaker. *It's not a coincidence that all Maggette, Quentin Richardson, Bobby Simmons,* *Wally and even Hassell had the best season when Jaric was their point guard.*(check the stats if you don't believe me)
> but apparently Casey doesn't have enough experience to know how to use these stuff, his offense is all about giving the ball to Garnett so he can make plays(btw this kills every PG in Minny, including Mike James) or just give the ball to the ballhog Ricky Davis and whatever happens happens...the ball movement is just horrible. In other words, Casey is stupid!
> 
> ...


quite obviously a jaric fan and not looking at this from a realistic perspective.
jaric was brought here originally in exchange for cassel, hence to play the 1 and 2 primarily.
he has struggled the entire time, this season especially to run an offence and set up plays for the team, he was moved over to the 3 and saw his best production there.
hes been a dis-appointment since he arrived, obviously by giving up sam and a 1st we had big hopes for him and were going to give him a chance to succeed, hes been ok but ok isnt what this team needs, it needs an impact player which is not what jaric provides.
basically he is best suited to a team who is short of the bench in the back court and needs someone who can play multiple positions, effectively but not necissarily change a game.

and caseys offense SHOULD be about feeding the ball to garnett, hes one of the most unstoppable players in the nba with the ball in his hands, do you have some other suggestion on how to run a wolves offense?


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

oh and him sitting in the corner completely absent from 3-4 offensive sets at a time is whos fault exactly?
cant blame that on casey, he doesnt have great offensive sets but it does give a chance for all players to get involved, jaric is way too passive


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## JuX (Oct 11, 2005)

socco said:


> *I know James hasn't been great this year, but signing Radmanovic would've been a horrible move. *Is Troy Hudson supposed to be our starting PG then? James is a far better scorer, better defender, and a better 3-point shooter than Radmanovic. Plus he's a PG, which we needed, and he's a veteran, which we also needed.


I'm still glad that _Vladimliar_ didn't just sign with us, he lied about his own injury. He's out for two months and we still have James playing but I hope he could play better than that.


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