# Free Agent Power Forwards:



## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

From the guy that brought to you the offseason's funniest quote...ever ("With Mark Blount set in the middle and youngsters Al Jefferson and Kendrick Perkins developing rapidly, LaFrentz appears to be expendable." -Thanks Anima), comes actually a decent article about the available Power Forwards.

http://www.basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?t=180535

And yes, Walker is in the top 5.

2. Antoine Walker, Boston: His love-hate relationship with the Celtics and their fans is well-documented, and the franchise might be looking to go in a younger direction. That opens the door for someone to sign a very talented yet problematic star who needs the ball in his hands. It remains to be seen where he lands, but you can bet it won't be back in an Atlanta-type situation.​


----------



## DWest Superstar (Jun 30, 2005)

Antoine Walker is far better than SAR. That is not even debatable


----------



## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

Gerald Green said:


> Antoine Walker is far better than SAR. That is not even debatable


In terms of what? I love Antoine, he's one of my favorites, but I really would like to see SAR here too....as long as the Nets don't take him. (They will...and if we don't they may take Walker , Kidd, Carter, Jefferson, Walker, Krstic...not bad)


----------



## DWest Superstar (Jun 30, 2005)

I am a numbers guy so I will load you with stats.

Last Season
Player A: PPG 16.8, RPG 7.30, APG 2.1.
Player B: PPG 19.1, RPG 9.00, APG 3.4.

Career
Player A: PPG 19.8, RPG 8.10, APG 2.7.
Player B: PPG 19.8, RPG 8.70, APG 4.1.


----------



## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

Not a good idea, Gerald.

Not at all.


----------



## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

Premier said:


> Not a good idea, Gerald.
> 
> Not at all.


I won't respond...I won't respond...I won't respond...I won't respond...I won't respond...I won't respond...I won't respond...I won't respond...I won't respond...I won't respond...I won't respond...I won't respond...I won't respond...I won't respond...I won't respond...I won't respond...I won't respond...I won't respond...I won't respond...I won't respond...I won't respond...


----------



## DWest Superstar (Jun 30, 2005)

Premier said:


> Not a good idea, Gerald.
> 
> Not at all.


 :eek8: 

I am puzzled as to what you mean


----------



## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

Gerald Green said:


> :eek8:
> 
> I am puzzled as to what you mean



me 2 lol


----------



## KJay (Sep 22, 2002)

Causeway said:


> I won't respond...I won't respond...I won't respond...I won't respond...I won't respond...I won't respond...I won't respond...I won't respond...I won't respond...I won't respond...I won't respond...I won't respond...I won't respond...I won't respond...I won't respond...I won't respond...I won't respond...I won't respond...I won't respond...I won't respond...I won't respond...


 come on we know you want to.


----------



## CelticsSaint1977 (Jun 19, 2005)

Gerald Green said:


> I am a numbers guy so I will load you with stats.
> 
> Last Season
> Player A: PPG 16.8, RPG 7.30, APG 2.1.
> ...


Gerald, the statistics are IDENTICAL. So answer me this question; how do these stats support your earlier assessment that "Antoine Walker is far better than SAR. That is not even debatable". :raised_ey ??

Or can someone else explain this for me?? 

Last I checked, Abdur-Rahim is a better low Post scorer and defender and is more athletic and lean.
:raised_ey
Hmm, maybe its just me looking at the glass, half full. 

Excuse me for not being a Celtics homer....


----------



## DWest Superstar (Jun 30, 2005)

SAR played on Vancouver for about 5 years


----------



## whiterhino (Jun 15, 2003)

aquaitious said:


> In terms of what? I love Antoine, he's one of my favorites, but I really would like to see SAR here too....as long as the Nets don't take him. (They will...and if we don't they may take Walker , Kidd, Carter, Jefferson, Walker, Krstic...not bad)


I agree, I love Antoine but I think SAR gets an equally bad rap that he doesn't deserve. It's not his fault he's been on losing teams, look at who he's had to play for, freaking Vancouver, Atlanta, Portland.


----------



## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

Gerald Green said:


> SAR played on Vancouver for about 5 years


Your point here is??


----------



## DWest Superstar (Jun 30, 2005)

Causeway said:


> Your point here is??


The second best player on the Vancouver team was Big Country...Which makes it easy to get good #s


----------



## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

Stat padding.


----------



## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

Gerald Green said:


> The second best player on the Vancouver team was Big Country...Which makes it easy to get good #s


So is Pierce's #'s this season no good because the best player he played with was Raef (and later you could argue Walker)?

What about Pierce's #'s last season? Crap?

Also while we are at it we should take away Walkers numbers on the Hawks. And put and * next to his numbers in Boston when the team won 15 games.


----------



## DWest Superstar (Jun 30, 2005)

Look how SAR numbers have lowerd after he left Vancouver and Craplanta. Do not even tell me Raef was the 2nd best plaer Pierce plaed with, Mark Blount had better numbers. Antoine got 16 and 8 on a good team in the Celtics. SAR got 16 and 7 on a bad team (Portland)


----------



## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

Numbers don't ever tell the whole story. Walker needs too many shots to get his points. He averages about a point a shot. Very unimpressive and inefficient.

And yes - Raef is better than Blount. And even still if you are arguing that Blount was the best player Pierce played along with that's still not saying much.


----------



## DWest Superstar (Jun 30, 2005)

Let me put it this way, who wins one on one Walker or SAR


----------



## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

It's a team sport. But either way I'd take SAR.


----------



## DWest Superstar (Jun 30, 2005)

I'd take Toine


----------



## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

You'd lose :biggrin:


----------



## DWest Superstar (Jun 30, 2005)

Causeway said:


> You'd lose :biggrin:


[strike]Is there a way we can take away Rep points?[/strike]

No personal attacks, no matter how subtle they might be.

- Premier


----------



## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

Gerald Green said:


> Is there a way we can take away Rep points?


:rofl: The feature was taken away. (For good.)

On the other hand, it's a debatable battle over SAR and Toine, but SAR is not quite the leader. Don't tell me he was on "losing teams" becuase he had talent around him, he chose to not do anything. Toine made players around him better, while SAR doesn't.


----------



## DWest Superstar (Jun 30, 2005)

aquaitious said:


> :rofl: The feature was taken away. (For good.)
> 
> On the other hand, it's a debatable battle over SAR and Toine, but SAR is not quite the leader. Don't tell me he was on "losing teams" becuase he had talent around him, he chose to not do anything. Toine made players around him better, while SAR doesn't.


Ding, We have a winner. SAR has never made a difference in this league. He is just bumped around from bad team to bad team. Antoine has been the leader of some good Celtics teams, and has made players around him better by getting them involved


----------



## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

Causeway said:


> So is Pierce's #'s this season no good because the best player he played with was Raef (and later you could argue Walker)?


I'm sorry, did Ricky Davis fall down the memory hole when I wasn't looking? [strike]Or has your blind hatred of Walker affected your vision to the point that you can no longer read a roster?[/strike]

No personal attacks.

- Premier



Causeway said:


> You'd lose :biggrin:


Only if he were dumb enough to place a wager on SARS actually winning. Though, obviously, there's a first time for everything.


----------



## DWest Superstar (Jun 30, 2005)

ehmunro said:


> I'm sorry, did Ricky Davis fall down the memory hole when I wasn't looking? Or has your blind hatred of Walker affected your vision to the point that you can no longer read a roster?
> 
> 
> 
> Only if he were dumb enough to place a wager on SARS actually winning. Though, obviously, there's a first time for everything.


I agree with you 100%. I highly doubt that Lafranchise is a better player than Davis. Alos being when he had worse numbers than Blount did last year.


----------



## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

ehmunro said:


> I'm sorry, did Ricky Davis fall down the memory hole when I wasn't looking? Or has your blind hatred of Walker affected your vision to the point that you can no longer read a roster?


Yes. My opinion is not based on facts at all just major blind hatred. In fact I think anyone who has something negative to say about Walker is simply controled by raging hatred. While on the other hand the Walker lovers only use their smarts and facts. It's impressive.


----------



## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

Gerald Green said:


> Ding, We have a winner. SAR has never made a difference in this league. He is just bumped around from bad team to bad team. Antoine has been the leader of some good Celtics teams, and has made players around him better by getting them involved


INteresting. So before your point was that SAR had good numbers because he played on crap teams and his #'s were inflated. Now your point is that the teams were fine - just that SAR did not make Vancuver players better.

And Antoine has been a vocal leader. But who has he made better? And don't tell me Pierce or Davis. They both were having fine seasons before he arrived. 

How does Walker needed the ball so much and taking too many shots help young guys?


----------



## DWest Superstar (Jun 30, 2005)

A qutoe from me


> He is just bumped around from bad team to bad team


A quote from you


> Now your point is that the teams were fine


----------



## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

Causeway said:


> INteresting. So before your point was that SAR had good numbers because he played on crap teams and his #'s were inflated. Now your point is that the teams were fine - just that SAR did not make Vancuver players better.
> 
> And Antoine has been a vocal leader. But who has he made better? And don't tell me Pierce or Davis. They both were having fine seasons before he arrived.
> 
> How does Walker needed the ball so much and taking too many shots help young guys?


I hate to bring up the 11-1 streak, but if Walker didn't do it...and if Walker had no influence...and we lost 2 games horribly vs bad teams (Denver was bad at that time)...who in the world do you give the credit to? 

Please don't say "Walker came at the right time" because it's BS that it takes a team two years to win 11/12 games. It just came to them out of nowhere, right? They just decided, "Hey guys, let's go on a 11/12 game win streak, doing bad for a year and a half gets boring, let's win some...and oh yeah, this has nothing to do with Walker."


----------



## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

aquaitious said:


> I hate to bring up the 11-1 streak, but if Walker didn't do it...and if Walker had no influence...and we lost 2 games horribly vs bad teams (Denver was bad at that time)...who in the world do you give the credit to?
> 
> Please don't say "Walker came at the right time" because it's BS that it takes a team two years to win 11/12 games. It just came to them out of nowhere, right? They just decided, "Hey guys, let's go on a 11/12 game win streak, doing bad for a year and a half gets boring, let's win some...and oh yeah, this has nothing to do with Walker."




but aqua...during that streak they played bad teams and only had 2 wins against good teams and antoines numbers really werent that great he sux he shoots too many 3s hes the reason we lost that 1 out of the 12 blahbady blah blah blah :biggrin:


----------



## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

aquaitious said:


> I hate to bring up the 11-1 streak, but if Walker didn't do it...and if Walker had no influence...and we lost 2 games horribly vs bad teams (Denver was bad at that time)...who in the world do you give the credit to?
> 
> Please don't say "Walker came at the right time" because it's BS that it takes a team two years to win 11/12 games. It just came to them out of nowhere, right? They just decided, "Hey guys, let's go on a 11/12 game win streak, doing bad for a year and a half gets boring, let's win some...and oh yeah, this has nothing to do with Walker."


He had something to do with it. Just not as much as some people want to give him credit for. They also won some games during that run in SPITE of Walkers crap play. ANd the real Walker showed up in the playoffs taking 26 shots in one game whle getting to the line ZERO times. I know he did that only because I hate him - but it's a fact.


----------



## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

#1AntoineWalkerFan said:


> but aqua...during that streak they played bad teams and only had 2 wins against good teams


true.



#1AntoineWalkerFan said:


> and antoines numbers really werent that great


actually a couple games he had excellent numbers. he just regressed to his true self.



#1AntoineWalkerFan said:


> he sux he shoots too many 3s hes the reason we lost that 1 out of the 12 blahbady blah blah blah :biggrin:


his threes are down (why is he behind the 3 point line in the first place?) - but as he showed in the playoffs his shooting in general went back up. you can say it's blah blah blah buy I'd say Walker taking over 20 shots a game is too much. But again as it keeps being said - that must just be because I hate the guy. 

His 50% shooting from the line? Also because I hate him. His inability to get to the line? Ditto.


----------



## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

aquaitious said:


> "Hey guys, let's go on a 11/12 game win streak, doing bad for a year and a half gets boring, let's win some...and oh yeah, this has nothing to do with Walker."


so if as you seem to be making it out to be - it was all because of Walker. How come for the rest of the regular season and the playoffs we came back down to earth? We still had the mighty Walker right? We should have lost maybe one game in the playoffs with Walker around. Yet we lost the series. Please explain.


----------



## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

So, it's merely a coincidence that we won 11 out of 12 as soon as Walker came back.


----------



## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

Premier said:


> So, it's merely a coincidence that we won 11 out of 12 as soon as Walker came back.


He gets SOME credit. IMO the biggest thing that happened when Walker came back was an emotional lift from the team and the fans. I was at the Fleet for his first game back. It felt like a playoff game. The players fed off that I am sure. 

But again please explain to me why that run ended. After the 11-1 run we finished the season about .500 and lost the playoff series - while we still had Walker. If Walker was such the difference maker that you and others make him to be we should have ripped through Indiana. But we lost the series. Why?


----------



## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

I don't know. I've tried to explain it before, but I'm clueless now. Although, I do have an interesting fact:

During that 11-1 run, Antoine shot 189 field goals and made 92 of them. That's a field goal percentage of 48.7%.

During the remaining regular season games in which the Celtics went 5-7, with Antoine, he shot 175 field goals, but only made 69 of them. That's a field goal percentage of 39.43%.

This means, when Antoine shoots well, we win.


----------



## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

ok. now we are getting somewhere. 

and based on Walkers entire career - not just those 12 games - which would you say is the real Walker?


----------



## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

ok I'll answer. The Walker who shoots closer to 40% is the real Walker. If Walker was a 48% FG shooter I'd be thrilled. The reality is his career average is about 41%.


----------



## celtsb34 (Apr 22, 2005)

Gerald Green said:


> Antoine Walker is far better than SAR. That is not even debatable


No he isn't SAR is way better than antoine walker aka Mr.Overated.

This is my 200th post :banana: :clap: :biggrin: :gbanana: :twave: :starwars: :nah:  :rotf: :cbanana: :jump: :whaasup: :gossip: :vbanana: :vbanana: :vbanana: :vbanana: :greatjob: :rocket: :djparty: :spam: :woot: :woot: :banana: :rbanana:  :buddies: :guitar: :allhail: :stupid: :stupid:


----------



## Focus (Feb 13, 2004)

Gerald Green said:


> The second best player on the Vancouver team was Big Country...Which makes it easy to get good #s


So I guess Walker is doing very good w/ Hawk, I am lazy but if you want I can go search the record while Walker is w/ the Hawk.


----------



## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

celtsb34 said:


> No he isn't SAR is way better than antoine walker aka Mr.Overated.


oooh you are in trouble now. you have done the inexcusable in here. you have said something neagtive about Antoine Walker. You must - like me - also just simply be blinded by hatred for Walker.


----------



## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

> Alos being when he had worse numbers than Blount did last year.


What are you talking about?

LaFrentz: 27.5mpg, 11.1ppg, 6.90rpg, 1.2apg, 1.24bpg, .496 FG%
Blount: 26.0mpg, 9.4ppg, 4.80rpg, 1.6apg, .78bpg, .529 FG%

Minutes are almost equal. LaFrentz has crappy knees. Blount is in his peak physical shape. LaFrentz makes a positive impact when he's on the court. Blount makes me want to slit my throat.

If you're arguing that Mark Blount is better than Raef LaFrentz now or ever, you are in for a long haul with me because that is Grade-A crap.


----------



## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

Premier said:


> I don't know. I've tried to explain it before, but I'm clueless now. Although, I do have an interesting fact:
> 
> During that 11-1 run, Antoine shot 189 field goals and made 92 of them. That's a field goal percentage of 48.7%.
> 
> ...


And what happens when he doesn't shoot well?

Premier since you are a fan of Walkers I truly am wondering who you think is the real Walker. The guy who shoots 48% and helps teams win - or the guy who shoots around 40%?


----------



## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

> The guy who shoots 48% and helps teams win - or the guy who shoots around 40%?


Let whoever may choose the first option know, you've got a bucketful of career stats coming at you from my way.


----------



## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

Clearly none of the Walker backers including Premier want to go near this one.


----------



## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

Causeway said:


> oooh you are in trouble now. you have done the inexcusable in here. you have said something neagtive about Antoine Walker. You must - like me - also just simply be blinded by hatred for Walker.


[strike]Dude, when you say stupid things[/strike], like claiming that Raef Lafrentz was the second best Celtic, to belabour, to death, [strike]your hatred of Walker, then yeah, we can see that your hatred of the guy is making you a little too blind to read the roster. And by making me defend the frigging guy you're pissing me off.[/strike]

No personal attacks.

- Premier


I didn't call him stupid, just identified his one claim as pretty stupid. Because Ricky Davis is clearly the second best player on Boston. And how is noting the man's OFT REPEATED in EVERY POSSIBLE THREAD hatred for Walker a personal attack? It would be like censuring someone for calling me a Jiri Welsch hater, it's absolutely true. I hate Jiri Welsch, and I'm as open about that as Causeway is about his hatred for Walker.


----------



## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

I read the roster and still feel Raef was the 2nd best guy on the team last year. Overpaid? Yes. Under appreciated? Yes. 

And none of that has anything to do with Walker shooting 41% for his career. Dude.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Gerald Green said:


> The second best player on the Vancouver team was Big Country...Which makes it easy to get good #s



Mike Bibby anyone?

How about a healthy Dickerson?


----------



## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

R-Star said:


> Mike Bibby anyone?
> 
> How about a healthy Dickerson?


[strike]Don't worry. ehmunro says stupid things and can't read a roster only due to his endless blind love for Antoine Walker.[/strike]

That wasn't necessary and doesn't comply with our TOS. No personal attacks.

- Premier

Also, since when did ehmunro even _like_ Walker?


I did not call him stupid I just feel Raef was the 2nd best player in the team last year. And that Bibby was the 2nd best player on the Grizz in the Canada days.


----------



## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

Causeway said:


> [strike]Don't worry. ehmunro says stupid things and can't read a roster only due to his endless blind love for Antoine Walker.[/strike]
> 
> That wasn't necessary and doesn't comply with our TOS. No personal attacks.
> 
> ...


Once again you edit me but not the other Walker supporter whi first did not comply with the TOS and used a personal attack.


----------



## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

Click Here to PM Premier!

 Okay?

- Premier


----------



## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

Causeway said:


> Once again you edit me but not the other Walker supporter whi first did not comply with the TOS and used a personal attack.


PM me the URL of the posts I missed.


----------



## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

See above. It's about one post above the one of mine you edited.


----------



## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

Yeah, I won't go any further than "He isn't the Antichrist". As Hollinger so eloquently pointed out, his biggest influence was to reduce the minutes played by Blount and Perkins. With strict control he can be OK. But there are a 12-15 fours I'd rather have.


----------



## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

Please private message me with the posts. Here is a link to send a message to me:

http://basketballboards.net/forum/private.php?do=newpm&u=7043

- Premier


----------



## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

Causeway said:


> Once again you edit me but not the other Walker supporter whi first did not comply with the TOS and used a personal attack.


Could you stop repeating this lie? That claim constitutes a personal attack.


----------



## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

This thread has gone far enough and we're not on topic anymore.

Closed.

- Premier


----------

